RJ @ The ramblings of a lunatic.
No, Rj, you are completely wrong. Gold will rise and violenty so. Not next year, but next month! Sorry you're gonna miss out. Hope you develop a new outlook on gold quickly. I'm sure you won't want to appear completely ignorant when everyone is making a fortune and your not.

Bart : Strad Master is correct the mirror site does not work .This is what I have as the url. http://207.221.35.108/cgi-bin/comments/gold/display_short.cgi

Gold up in July -- RJs comment that 'He kicked it and it didn't move' is actually better than anybody elses 'rational' for gold going lower, since NO ONE ELSE, in the whole past year, have ever provided any! It really would have been nice to have read ANY rational behind their thinking! RJ, is it a timing thing, a price thing, or both? Once it gets there, what in your opinion will begin to make it reverse trend? In other words, if it won't do it this year, what makes next year different?

Mike ( @ ) : In a belated comment concerning your 04:35 6/24
reply to Bernatz ; how did you ever get the idea, that
you had to be American, or better yet "qualified" to hack
for the US Treasury. I buy zee bonds von zee Prynees, ow
you zay 1st.

Gold will go down!
Gold will go up!
Oh hell...
I give up.

AWAY!

EB

I recommend that everone read http://www.the-privateer.com/corresp.html if you haven't yet done so. Kind of puts things into perspective going into/through the July 4th holiday!

RJ - such a way with language. Thanks. But can you tell me who will win the third race at Los Alamitos Sunday?

AWAY!

EB

??? HUH??

Press the button!
No! You!
Your the trigger man!
No you are!
Who says?
You did!
No I didnt!
Yes you did!
Oh get out of my way this is how its done!
Will someone SH*T in the shooter for gods sake. ( Sake that is not sake )
Oh look do I have to do everything myself!
Stand back everyone!

EB my 21:49 was hitching on to your 12:25. Clear now?

Thinking outloud;
Hashimoto- the little I know of the japanese mentality- the remarks by Mike Sheller, I believe, are the closest to what just happened, when the roof fell in. However japanese as many others are not foolish people, even though they have made mistakes, so who hasn't? What bothers me is
why would anyone go public with what he is doing, or intending to do, unless it isn't what he is about to do at all. They aren't about to sell bonds and buy gold, and upset the markets. This is just a little smack on the cheek, to make a point. Other wise why foul up the markets for yourself, you can just do the selling quietly, and get the best prices.

About Gold- my long term charts, and short term as well, look like the bottom is in place, but having been a true life long contrarian, and respecting RJ's remarks, "I'm concerned."

What's this? EBN gold up a whole Dollar? Must be a mistake.

I guess there is no comments on the Rueters story that posted last night. One last time,

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/06/24/z0009_1413.html

DJ reports a strong earthquake in western Japan, no damage reported though.

ALL:

August gold up 50 cents this morning as dollar weakens. Gold stocks performed considerably better relative to bullion yesterday -- a positive sign. IF THIS CONTINUES for a few days the stage will be set for a decent rally.

With many gold bulls capitulating as evidenced in rising put premiums and mine closures likely to escalate if bullion drops much below $335, a long-term bottom is getting close.

Panda here's the latest earthquakes, seems like USA's running hot

Sorry Panda here's the url
http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/quake/gldfs.cr.usgs.gov
Washingtons looks like it's in the hot seat.

Sorry Panda here's the url
http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/quake/gldfs.cr.usgs.gov
Washingtons looks like it's in the hot seat.

STRAD MASTER: If the rise in bankruptcies has been significantly boosted by AIDS sufferers pulling a short-timer's scam with their credit cards, and then getting caught with a few extra years of life, then this country is in truly bad shape. Not to jump on a soap box, but this says reams ( no pun intended ) about the general morality of the population. I think the prevailing ethic is more and more a disregard for the responsibilities and integrity demanded by civilized living. I cannot help but agree with the recent poster who warned that the next financial catastrophe would not be suffered civilly by the current populace. Gonna get ugleee.

Reify: Re Hashimoto remarks, I would postulate that Hashimoto spoke of what the Japapnese have contemplated, but not yet done. You are right that it would be dumb to telegraph their market moves in advance, and that is why there has been such an effort by the Japanese to put reverse spin on his comments. I expect the Japanese have not actually decided yet to dump treasuries and buy gold, but they sure don't want to tip their hand in advance and ruin that alternative for themselves by starting the price up before they are able to buy at the bottom.

Nick -- Interesting URL. IT must be the Russian's doing it! :- ) ) :- ) )
( Conspiracy joke folks... Calm down... :- ) )

Looks like the EU people want to talk to Mr. Hashimoto about his 'comments' the other day. Yes, it's looking more like Babylon5 all the time. Voorlons, The Shadows, Psi Cops... What's a person to do? ( paranoia running deeep...:- ) ) OK, enough of the bad humor!

Looks like Hashimoto has upset the apple cart. He's undone alot of the propoganda spun by the CB's just by mentioning the word 'gold'. It kind of reminds me of the movie, "The Ten commandments." When the Pharo says, "Let the name of Moses be struck from every .....", and then on Pharo's death bed, he breaks his own law, and speaks the name of Moses. Sort of like what Hashimoto did on Monday. :- ) )

If gold is so worthless, why are they ( CB's ) taking possesion of it? Why is every effort being made to discredit gold? It shall be interesting to watch Mr. Hashimoto's treatment about broaching the gold issue.

What has occurred over the last couple of days with reguard to Japan? What I see is this. Japan said they were not happy with their reserve asset allocation. They might think of selling some us tbonds. But later said this was not to be. All the analysis says, of course it is not possible, it would be disasterous for Japan ( or any other large holder of tbonds ) . The lesson for all large buyers: Think long and hard about your purchases of us tbonds. Once you buy them they can never be sold! Us tbonds are to buy only. Japan has slowed its new purchases of tbonds. The rest of the world?

Morning all! Ready for our gold recovery since the ABC correction has finished. You see, it was just a matter of time, time could of told you that!

I find it somewhat curious that you can't find the Nazis gold story in the Yahoo archives now. The story is still there, it's just not listed. Hmmmm, must be the Shadows again.....

Uh Oh, Hashimoto speaks again. He doesn't want the Yen 'downgraded to a local currency.' Hmmm, I wonder what he means? :-o Fourth of July is coming soon! Along with the attendant fireworks. :- ) )

D.A.: As a software engineer I can confirm your observations about the insane demand for software designers. It's quite absurd. I can't help but feel that Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand" is going to intervene and correct the situation - else I & my ilk shall be the masters of the Earth ( I've always wanted to own a few lawyers, maybe a dozen ) . The really intresting thing is to watch the military-industrial complex ( MIC ) being sucked dry of its competent software people by the commercial side. The MIC almost has a clue that they've had their brains removed - they are still paying trivial salaries and wondering why their turn-over rate in programmers is +30%. Why suck thin-gruel corporate prole-feed + vanishing "perks" when one can earn $50 - $80 an hour doing contract software? ( of course, buying gold hand over fist at the same time ; ) . Still, I have to echo Captain Willard's words from "Apocalypse Now": "... some day this war's gonna be over..."

Spud

I want to remind everyone that the "BT" has only 3 more days to make it happen...or else ...Is it BT for President ... or BT for dog-catcher??

Gold up 1.50 this morning. Silver up 3.00. After rethinking Hashimoto's comments, traders may have decided to put new money into gold and silver, not US Treasury Bonds. If the metals can move just a little higher from here, the charts will look tremendous. Then watch the buyers come charging in. And watch those mega-shorts squirm, knowing their on the wrong side of the market.

Spuds - You're right - someday this war's gonna be over - thanks to CinC Klintoris. If Quadriennial Review recommendations get implemented it's gonna kill MIC even faster...

BTW, Capt Willard was only agreeing with the lunatic, Air Cavalry, surfer addict, LtCol - "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" played by Robert Duvall ( sorry, can't remember the character's name ) .

Also, MIC is soon to dump ADA requirements altogether.... go figure...

Bill Buckler- What rates do the Japanese want us to raise? The Fed can only impact short term rates. Long term rates may follow. If long term bond rates did rise in sympathy, the Japanese will lose their shirts on their current holdings.

panda: This is not a direct comment to your holocaust story but I talked to a swiss national yesterday and asked what he thought of the swiss revaluing gold, the holocaust payments and the euro. Also, why all the fuss about Nazi gold now over 50 years after the fact. He said that the swiss did not want to lower their standard of living by going with the euro. Their standard of living is high in Europe and they feel it would be lowered because of poorer countries with less solid currencies and economies dragging down the the more prosperous countries.
He also noted that since the swiss aren't going to play the euro game then the european union was going to "give the shaft to the swiss" and try and force the situation on them. This is his take on the Nazi gold in Switzerland story. He also noted that Hitler did not want to invade Switzerland because it is easy to defend/costly to conquer, Hitler figured to starve them out after he conquered the rest of Europe. So there's a view from Switzerland. He was apathetic about the swiss gold valuation, he's not a goldbug ( or gnome ) . Any other Swiss out there care to respond?
PS funny how those CB's like to hold onto all that worthless unmonetized gold! What a burden they shoulder for their citizens!: )

All:

Is the economy strong as DA argues or is it on the verge of recession as Steve Puetz asserts? I think DA has got it right. With consumer confidence at the highest level since the 1969, a booming stock market, and relatively low interest rates, the odds of a recession in the near future are minuscule UNLESS SOME KEY PARAMETERS CHANGE.

This is not to argue for a complacent attitude. Far from it. Steve Puetz is correct that many lower-end consumers are indeed living from hand to mouth and could easily be pushed over the edge if the job market softens even a little, or banks significantly tighten consumer credit standards.

Problems at the lower end have been more than offset by boom times for the top 20% and super-boom times for the top 5%. But much of the extraordinary prosperity at the top reflects huge stock market gains. The booming stock market also is boosting middle class spending. Many of these people feel much less pressure to save for retirement now that their 401Ks are doing so well.

But all this will change dramatically when stocks go into reverse. The current economic expansion depends more heavily on continued strength in the stock market than did any of its predecessors. Spending habits of the top 5% probably won't change if the market slides, but the urge to splurge among the top 20% undoubtedly will ease. Middle class baby boomers, worrying again about retirement security again, will hike savings and cut spending. As the economy slows and loan losses mount, banks will quickly hike lending standards.

So while the short-term economic outlook remains good, this could change much faster than most expect if the stock market runs into trouble. And a super-crash is not required, just a normal bear market which takes prices down 20-30% without a quick recovery will suffice quite nicely.

DJIA down 24 points this morning. XAU recovering nicely at 95.64, up .91.

Spud Master - let's talk Ada. adaman@goodsites.com

DJIA continues to fall -- down 40 points. XAU now up 1.00 point at 95.73. Gold up 1.10. Bonds down 11 ticks. In spite of weak durable goods orders, bonds are still selling off. Maybe lack of inflation is no longer a reason to buy bonds, maybe fear of foreign dumping is a reason to sell.

anyone having problems accessing this site again today?

Yellowdog: Yes, I just got in after an hour of trying. Same problem yesterday AM. I could get into home page and data page, but not discussion page.

BART...Would you please re-post the url for the mirror site...I am having a devil of a time getting in this morning ( and yesterday ) ...THANX...

Having some difficulties getting through again. Patience!
Anyhow interesting day XAU up nicely, over $1.60while gold is sliding now below $340. Tune in tomorrow and see if the hero gets the girl.

I'm having trouble again today accessing kitco. It looks like this centipede bull market may be trying to add another leg onto it. DJIA just moved above 7800 -- up 43 points. Metals are still up. Bonds are still weak. The Dollar is still under pressure.

George Cole: I can't argue with what you said too much. The big question is: Will spending by the top 1/3 consumers offset retrenchment by the bottom 1/3. That retrenchment already began in March. The top 1/3 are going to have to come around and start spending real soon to avoid a recession.

You may be right about a mid July top in stocks -- if the DJIA continues to hold above 7800 the rest of the day. The 20 bear-market warnings are still valid, the exact timing is the only thing in question now.

MIKE SHELLER: Just to clarify: AIDS patients who suddenly improve in their prognosis are not at all a significant contributor to bankruptsies. You correctly got the point of the story, though, that their behaviour is indicative of a general mind-set among a large segment of the populace. "Me first! I deserve whatever I can wrest from anyone else. My suffering is paramount and everyone else owes me because I'm suffering." ( Never mind that the person you're stiffing with a credit scam might have equal or worse problems to deal with. ) These are ideas engendered by years of victimology propaganda and entitlement programs that have sapped people of any feelings of responsibility for their own or other's well-being. Also the radical secularization of society has contributed mightily to the problem. I'm reminded of Kennedy's famous line: "Ask not what your country can do for you but what YOU can do for your country!" How quaint. I too, fear the aftermath when the music finally stops.

This site hard to reach. Mirror sight impossible. It must be an accident--or an arranged accident!

This site hard to reach. Mirror sight impossible. It must be an accident--or an arranged accident!

This site hard to reach. Mirror sight impossible. It must be an accident--or an arranged accident!

JAPAN BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD SPOT: Only Solution Is To Dump U.S. Treasuries and Buy GOLD! ( PART - I ) . See ORACLE in Gold Digest - MUST CLICK RELOAD:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest.html

Puetz: don't get discouraged so easily. your call still is good even as we speak. until old highs are taken out, the previous top could very well be THE top. I smell bull trap

A valuable demo of how astrology can be an aid in windows ( time ) and watching thru them...

Gold-Eagle's next to last edition of The Astrological Investor featured, among other predictions, "SAUDI ARABIA - we are fixed on June 19, 20, 21 here as Mars conjuncts Saudi's Sun at 0 degrees Libra...Potent energies as a background to this potentially aggravating aspect for Saudi Arabia. Watch the news here. End of June features several other aspects falling into place."

Well, Saudi Arabia IS aggravated. Today's Wall Street Journal ( June 25 ) reports in the Commodities section that Saudi Arabia and Iran have announced agreement to work together to prod other OPEC members to curtail oil production with the goal of raising world oil prices by as much as $4. While this unusual alliance is quite powerful, it is expected that there will not be much of a change in attitude concerning chronic quota busting by other OPEC members.
By the way, Saturn is now at 19 Aries, conjuncting NYSE Moon. Will it finally launch silver as it did in '68? As analyzed months ago, July still promises to be HOT!

Uh Oh, Hashimoto speaks again. He doesn't want the Yen 'downgraded to a local currency.' Hmmm, I wonder what he means? :-o Fourth of July is coming soon! Along with the attendant fireworks. :- ) )

Mike Sheller: Four or five weeks ago I did a technical analysis of the Gold ( spot ) price and got the impression, that we'll see a mayor up-move in the next future ( july, august? ) - I bought some 380-december-Calls. During the last month I was wandering what could be the trigger for that turnaround. This week I already thought the japanese are the answer - what turned out to be wrong ( so far ) . Even the 192-points-babycrash of the dow didn't help the goldprice. Now I'm looking forward ( upward ) to yours stars and hope they can help us.
From my technical point of view the move under the 340-support-level was not nice, but no big problem either, because my long-recommandation was based on the strong - and normaly very reliable - divergences between the spotprice and indicators like MACD, RSI, Williams UItimate Oscillator and some of my selfconstructed indicators.
regards
Gery, Vienna, Austria

Damn! I did it again! Another repost. FWIW column, if the Dow fails here, there could be trouble. There's just too much volatility here. Panic selling on a whim, then panic buying on a whim. This looks like the stuff of weak hands. Wouldn't it be a kicker if the FOMC raised rates on July 2? Keep one thing in mind, if things get too volatile, people will just walk away from the markets. It becomes too stressful to trade or invest, whatever that means nowdays....

GERY: Your guess is as good as mine as to what the fundamental happening will actually be. Meantime I can only look at the technicals, like you. I'm looking for a rally soon ( what else is new? ) and see a breakout above 346 on August gold to be the key for now. That would be the sign to buy futures or calls. But I DONT expect the rally to last more than two months before gold turns down for a final weak spell into winter.

All:

Another example of statistical legardmain can be found today over at Morgan Stanleys site ( http://www.ms.com ) . One of their economists was singing the praise of growth and low inflation in Denmark. By his reckoning CPI was due to come in around 2% for 1997. Toward the end of the column he said that one of the risks to his low inflation forecast was that the wealth creation effect caused by surging housing prices could cause excess growth. He noted that housing prices had been growing at a rate of 10% per annum since 1993.

In the US, I believe that housing costs make up something on the order of 40% of CPI. Making the great leap of faith that this is not too distant from the makeup in Denmark we are lead to the following interesting set of numbers. If housing costs are rising 10% per year then CPI increases due to housing are up 4% per year. If the CPI is growing at only 2% a year the rest of the prices in Denmark must be deflating. Since we know for sure that energy prices are up strongly over the last few years, and food prices are also up, there are some other sectors ( health, education, entertainment etc ) that must be in a deflationary spiral.

Or maybe there is just something rotten in the BLS of Denmark.

Heard a rumour of the following:
The stock market will crash by October ( at the latest-no surprise )
US interest rates will rise to 33% for 4 to 6 months
Australian interest rates will rise to 17% for same period
Platinum to rise further, & become the "new" gold ( hence correlating
with sales of gold by central banks, even during the financial crisis )
Gold price will diminish down to $127 oz, as investors will ignore it,
or is dumped on market by CB's.
Platinum will be Russia's new Reserve currency, as they don't have one.
Asian countries buying Platinum etc while they put up the smoke-screen
of Hashimoto that they are buying gold. Seems strange for Mr Jap Finance
to be making such an overt public comment, despite understanding the
background scenario. What if they were buying something else on the
quiet??

Can't prove any of this, & this is hard to post, considering after
following this site for months now. The bond charts certainly indicate that interest rates will rise. However, if all of this does happen,
remember this prediction.

An article for a bit of balance to my last posting
http://www.afr.com.au/content/970626/invest/invest5.html

Steve -- If interest rates hit a third of that level in the next four months, gold will fly. FEAR knows no price.

CNBC-TV Financial Celebrity believes market still not seen top - but its on tippy-toes. On Gold: ...this is what a bottom looks like. Gene Inger letter Forecast:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest.html

George S. Cole"

George...Hopefully you're lurking so I have a quick question...

If the gold stocks were down on the day ( in Toronto ) but up on the XAU, and the prices of Gold and Silver were up as they are today, would you get out or stay in with your theorums. Won't hold you to it, I just want your thoughts and experience. It's really confusing when one markets up and anothers down and there's no coorelation for either/both.

Thanks in advance...

TTFN

It seems as if some of the gold stocks are turning around.

Steve@Perth: Get some 100% sleep.

This could be the test, Bonds turning down in advance of tomorrows numbers? If the HUI & XAU hold..... paradigm shift..... IMVHO of course.

Just a thought for consideration by this august group.

Let's agree that mutual fund buying is driving the market up. When the market drops and investors really get concerned, the first thing they will do is pick up the phone and call Fidelity, or whomever, and move the money from wherever it is into money market funds. Not commercial paper, mind you, but government money funds backed by "full faith and credit blah blah blah". This could happen VERY fast. ( After this move, people will relax a little and take more time looking at other places to park money, like gold hopefully. )

Let's see. 10 million people moving $20,000 each ( was $50,000 before the crash ) is $200 billion dollars. This might solve Bill's problem with the Japanese, but the commercial credit market would be devastated, not to mention the equity market. Leads to very high rates on commercial paper because of perceived risk.

I need some help from the more knowledgeable people here to develop this scenario. Does it make sense?

Dow down 109. Falling like a rock. May it go to Hades : )

And this is being sold as "NORMAL" volatility? :- ) ) :- ) )

TICK and TRIN look GRIM!

Gawd, I luv it... Hashimoto = paradigm shift. :- ) )

OK, maybe I'm early.

Wow, I have the place all to myself again. I always knew the Internet was reliable! :- ) ) Just don't trade over it!

D.A. Legerdemain permeates the entire media coverage of Hashimoto remarks. Anyone who thinks that his remarks will be shrugged off by the markets, is really not thinking.

I love the closing comment; Somebodies a bear, 28K puts on the S&P can't be all wrong...

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/06/25/z0000_z00_9.html

Sorry, that was 20K puts on the S&P. Chalk it up to irrational bearishness. :- ) )

In the light of golds sickly performance for many months, Gold Seer Aurophile examines the noble metals history, symptoms & prognosis. See Analysis section:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/analysis/gold_dead.html

Nice move in BGO today-UP .30-not bad for a $6 stock

OK, OK. I'll settle for a plus close on the HUI & XAU.... Really wanted a close on the highs, oh well.. Besides, who's worried about foreigners selling our bonds?

BT...You have 2 days ... 48 hours ... top do your thing ... or you are outta here!..:- )

Westboy: You're right!!! I retract my 11:33 -- when the Dow looked like it was going to put another leg up. I imagine the market blew a lot of shorts out at that point, then reversed course, and collapsed again.

As an ode to the odious performance by the paper god today in the markets I submit the following:

This cowboy walks into a bar and orders a beer. His hat is made of brown wrapping paper; his shirt and his vest are made of waxedpaper; his chaps, pants, even his boots are made of typing paper; andh is spurs are made of tissue paper. Pretty soon they arrested him for rustling.

panda : Your 16.03. That's what Rubin said this afternoon in first response to Hashimoto remarks. "Our markets are so broad and so deep they can absorb such selling with only a short term disruption." If you or anyone else has information on the numbers involved, would you please post.

Eldorado: You and others were correct two nights ago -- when you said the dam was bursting. Today, floor sources in the bond pits said that $2 billion of real cash sales of 10-year notes hit the floor today. The sales were rumored to have come from either an Asian central bank or a hedge fund. How much longer before other holding US Bonds and Notes get scared out. Hashimoto has opened the flood gates.

Meanwhile, in the spin-control room, Secretary Rubin said today that there's no reason to see a big sell-off of U.S. bonds.

Tort: You better give up on the cowboy jokes, and go back to the Catholic ones.

DJ,re your 15.03post.It makes as much or more sense than I see here.Wondering only if those mutual funds aren't playing musical chairs with their clients money?They must be buying and selling to each other.No creation of new values here.Makes you wonder what these clients think, if anything at all.

Wednesday June 25 1:13 AM EDT

Gutnick predicts gold price rally

SYDNEY, June 25 ( Reuter ) - Australian mining entrpreneur Joseph Gutnick forecast on Wednesday a rally in the gold price later this year or next year when hedge funds and speculators who were short hundreds of tonnes of gold became bored with the metal and left the market after squaring their positions.

Gutnick said in a luncheon address to the Australia-Israel Chamber of Commerce that he welcomed comments on Monday by Japanese Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto that Japanese investors may look at switching from U.S treasuries to gold.

``Hearing the prime minister of an economy like Japan talking about investing in gold should be encouraging to those who like to invest in an anti-cyclical environment,'' Gutnick said.

``Nothing continues to go down. There'll be a time when Wall Street will significantly correct and from what I hear from the prime minsiter of Japan, that's going to be a time when many countries again turn to gold,'' he said.

Gutnick said fundamental Asian demand for gold would eventually overpower the short positions held by speculators and hedge funds, who would tire of their positions as the price continued to stabilise above US$335 an ounce.

``Once they don't get the returns out of gold and they get bored with this particular commodity and go on to the next commodity or currency, you'll see an improvement in the price of gold and possibly a dramatic one,'' he said.

``There are many hundreds of tonnes of gold that the hedge funds and speculators have shorted, the biggest short position ever in the history of gold, and if the price of US$335 holds and they cannot penetrate it because of the physical demand, then we will see gold rebound,'' he said.

Gutnick's stable of gold exploring and mining companies, including Great Central Mines Ltd ( GCM.AX ) and Centaur Mining & Exploration Ltd ( CTR.AX ) , have a combined resource base of over 10 million ounces and expected annual production within two years of one million ounces.

If that was an Asian central bank that sold US 10-year notes today, what do you suppose they will do with the proceeds from the sale?

Stradmaster:

I wouldnt come down too hard on AIDS patients or anyone looking to scam the system. What about all the CEOs getting multi-million dollar bonuses and/or huge stock profits as they slash thousands of jobs. The moral climate was set long ago at the top -- in this economy of all against all you are a fool if you let obsolete ideas such as a sense of ethics and fair play prevent you from getting rich as fast as possible and by any means possible.

The tobacco companies have killed tens of millions of people over the years and their stockholders have grown hugely wealthy in the process. If narcotics are ever legalized ( don't rule this out ) can you imagine the P/E multiples that the cartels would sell at if they sold stock to the public. Huge profit margins and return on investment.

Steve Puetz -- I think they need some concrete for that crack in the dam! The paper they stuffed in the hole doesn't seem to be holding! But they have a lot more of it that they'll use first.

Steve Puetz: Was that BT selling the 10 year notes? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

DJ:

I think you're right on your thinking, however, you may have missed a couple of things. I'm not sure if it's the same with the American Fidelity funds ( I'd be surprised if it wasn't though ) but in Canada, ( as with many many other funds I might add ) , there is a stipulation of "not allowing" transferring of funds out of one fund type to another if it would "hurt the general unitholders" overall. There is also the case where the fund, rather than selling the stocks, are allowed to just transfer owernership of the proportionate shares directly to you without selling. I have been one of those caught by Altamira Mutual funds on the first issue and I read the second in an article concerning the pitfalls of Mutual funds.

It means, at least in Canada, that if the place falls apart, it's like a bank run, they CAN stall off the returning of monies.

TTFN

ALL:

Excellent action in the gold complex today! Bullion up a modest 40 cents, but XAU and HUI posted nice gains. This is the kind of action I like to see -- the stocks leading bullion higher. Another day or two of this and we will be ready for a powerful move up. Don't write BT off yet.

Yesterday's powerful stock market rally seems to have been a bull trap. Still think the market will not make its final peak until August, but a short-term decline of 500 points or so prior to a final blowoff rally looks like a good bet.

Front: none of such restrictions apply when the money is in 401K
retirement plan - majority of US baby boomers mutual fund investment.
I personally have my 401K money in Fidelity accounts and I frequently
move money around - lately a lot of it from stocks to money market
funds - no restriction there ( yet )

George Cole: Tobacco companies haven't killed people. Smokers voluntarily reduce their life expectancy on their own. Responsilility must lie with consumers -- people choose what they do and don't want to do with their life. If they demand cigarettes, someone will make them -- legally or illegally ( in the case that tobacco production is outlawed ) .

AMEN brother!

AWAY!

EB

George: I'll take some of those. Talk about some easy money...

AWAY!

EB

Government sactioned murder? or
Dumb-Ass, weak-willed people slowly killing themselves...

Oh...I don't know.
AWAY!

EB

Everything points to us being on the verge of recession. Consumer Confidence is high ( although expectations are nothing sensational ) and 36% of Americans think jobs are plentiful while 64% look at the situation as mediocre to bad. Given, the stk mkt and the daily propaganda about jobs one would think these nos. would be substantially higher. 64% of the people think the job mkt is punk even with 4.8% unemployment and the constant job machine harangue from the media and Govt officials taking credit not to mention the stk mkt. Economy strong???HELLO!! In sum the job propaganda is to keep money flowing in to support the financial mkts which is the only thing up in the economy. Read recent Investors Daily NY Job mkt bleak w/o WAll St.

The Bankruptcies and rising record debt levels and stagnating earnings ( not the CEOS ) tell the true story ie this economy is fragile and needs a constant infetimine dose to keep going. The signs of depression/recession are all there. The top 20% do not spend enough to offset the pain of the bottom 80%. The incessant chearleading is a sign by those in the know that the economy is very fragile. The French President said it best last weekend "ALL WE NEED TO HAVE AS "GOOD" ECONOMY AS AMERICA IS..... IMPORT THE OPTIMISTIC REPORTING ON THE ECONOMY AS DONE BY THE US MEDIA...
OL Jacques must have been watching CNBC ans CNN!!

There you have it. NUF SAID!

I guess we know why rubin was announcing pending gov't gold sales before the fact. At the time of his statements; I was flabbergasted as it seemed very stange to tell everyone what he was planning to do be for he did it. I guess it has all been due to behind the scenes "talks" with Japan.

TSE gold & precious metal index up 1.12%. We haven't seen that for awhile. Maybe the masses are rethinking their strategy??? As for the tobacco companies , their the scapegoat for the governments not being able to supply health care as they promised. Who's next?.... the beer companies, or maybe the fast food chains!!!What a joke!!!!

Hello fellow goldbugs from Johannesburg in sunny South Africa where we actually mine the great stuff. I have been lurking for many weeks now having taken a rather long-suffering position in SA gold shares in February. Without your collective moral support I would have sold out early last week. Yesterday I tripled my position.

Since February I have been trying to piece together the mystery as to why gold ( and my shares ) have been on the decline. It has been a long hard road but with all the opinions and useful up-to-the-minute info offered by you guys I think I am much closer now. I agree broadly with most positive opinion expressed at Kitco and it has been interesting watching sentiment change from the simplistic bull/bear tussle of a month or so ago to a well-founded largely bullish following with only the odd cry in the wilderness. I must compliment Steve Puetz in particular for his valuable insights.

GOLD - THE SOUTH AFRICAN PERSPECTIVE

A piece of the puzzle I feel has perhaps been missed in the mystery of golds decline is the history about to made in Europe. Europe has politically committed itself to monetary union 18 months from now. The plan is that the EMU ( European Monetary Union ) will establish a hard European currency in the interest of integrated and enhanced European economic muscle, not to mention the trade benefits. In terms of the Maastricht treaty all participants in the new ECU ( European currency unit ) must embark on an austerity programme and conform to certain budgetary and fiscal constraints in order to be admitted to the new currency. The most controversial of these constraints is a maximum budget deficit of 3 % of GDP.

An embarrassing situation now prevails. It appears that neither Germany, France, Italy nor Spain will make the 3% budget deficit, yet all the countries vehemently claim to be committed to monetary union. Germany in particular has been extremely vocal in insisting that the Maastricht requirements be met - thus they are perhaps the most embarrassed of all and 3% is now being interpreted as "about 3%, maybe 3.3 or even 3.5%".

What does all this mean???? Well we know gold is a political pawn and a low gold price is a reflection of voter confidence in the worlds financial economy. It would appear however that the European voters are not all convinced! Only a slim majority are favour of monetary union. Most worrying perhaps is the German statistic: the latest poll is 39% for and 42 % against. In light of the fact that the new European bank is likely to be the Bundesbank with a name change this is indeed worrying for the monetary bureaucrats. In fact the forex market has already begun discounting the currencies against the dollar ( see pg 22 Economist - June 7th 1997 ) .

Now does it seem strange that when gold rallied in February, the Swiss CB announced a plan to sell gold to compensate holocaust victims? Or that after bulls and bears battled it out for over a month producing the technicians classic wedge ( often followed by a sharp rise ) that the Belgian CB announced it plans to sell off gold coins the public?

What I am saying is that rumors of central bank selling were insufficient to suppress bullish sentiment and the European CBs had to resort to formal publicity - all in an effort to prove to the public that Europeans are in full support of the EMU.

Now to Greenspans predicament. The US Government knows that as economic and financial power shifts to Asia, Europe is their last ally in keeping the financial markets Westernized. The worst thing he could do to Europe is raise interest rates as this would only increase the dollar holdings of Europeans, making their new currency look even softer. They cant afford to raise their own interest rates in tandem due to the self imposed austerity programme of the Maastricht treaty. Im sure this was made clear by the Europeans at Denver last weekend

Thus I would interpret Hashimotos comments as an arrow across the bow of not only the US boat but that of Europes gold suppressing strategy and "no rate increase" lobby.

In short Greenspan is stuck between a rock and hard place. Whatever he does he will be wrong. Either he snubs Europe or Japan. Add to this a bubble on Wall Street and he cant sleep well at night!

The imminent sharp decline ( dare I say crash ) in US and consequently world financial markets and realization of the US debt predicament, the prospect for a loss of faith in both the dollar and European currencies is very real. The alternative is the Yen and somehow I dont think the West is comfortable with this idea.

Golds meteoric rise will not be driven by inflation, but by the fear that the dollar is no longer fit to serve as the world currency and a new European currency that offers at best an extremely shaky alternative.

In conclusion I quote the master speculator George Soros:

" there is simply no realistic exchange rate at which the dollar can continue fulfilling its role as international reserve currency: the dollar is unsound at any price. Holders of financial assets seek the best store of value, and the dollar no longer qualifies. A country with large budget deficit and a large trade deficit cannot expect foreigners to accept an ever-increasing flow of its currency. Yet the international financial system cannot function without a stable currency as its foundation. This is the central lesson that emerges from the Crash of 1987."

REB, that was me sellin' t-notes today. wanna' know what i'm gonna' do tomorrow?

That wasn't BT's post. The style was different.

Steve, in reading your book, came across chart 58 on page 143 showing the shrinking liquidity which basically has not been in negative territory since the 1930's. Have you done any updates to this chart since jan 1997 and could you please go into some more detail here on Kitco as to the possible ramifications? Thanks in advance...

Neil: welcome! what took you so long to post? your thoughts are interesting and well organized. look forward to future posts.
South African gold stocks will be the place to be for the forthcoming rally, IMHO.

WELL SAID!

AWAY!

EB

13 th ( fibonacci number ) day in a row that FDPMX has fallen! Its 14 day average up amount is at the lowest level since I've been tracking it ( 3 years ) .

Miro:

Thanks for that information. We in Canada have what they call RRSP's ( registered retirement savings plans ) . They work under the same principles as your 401K's I believe ( no expert so could be incorrect ) . Does Fildelity let you change on a daily basis without problems? Don't know, just a question ( :- ) ...

Can you also use your 401K before you're 59 without penalty? We can as long as the monies are treated for tax purposes as income.

TTFN

Lan Man and Steve Puetz: I have some thoughts about charts 56 and 58 in the book. Does it include or exclude the 168 Billion in US currency that circulates overseas? It makes a BIG difference in the amount of domestic leverage.

On a lighter note folks, I hope you are all taking notes on what we are witnessing here. This is history in the making! I talk to people at work, and most believe that the 200 +/- points ( +/- means give or take in this context ) is 'normal' because the market is high in numbers. The 'right way', they say, is to look at this market is in terms of percentages. Ask them what normal 'historical' percentage movements are, and you will get a dumb, "I don't know." But they 'know' these movements are O.K. Ask these people what the VIX index is or how volatility is defined and you will usually get a blank stare. They haven't got a clue as to what is 'normal' or not! Garbage in, garbage out. The media says it's 'normal' for these kinds of swings, therefore it's O.K.

Ask these same people what happened on Monday and most couldn't give you the reason why! Ask most who Hashimoto is, and they say, "Hashi who?" Ask them why the market gyrated today, and the answer is the OPEC boys want more money for their oil! Followed by, "We have a MILITARY!", or some other crap along those lines. The ARROGANCE! For those of you who are not in the U.S. of A., I live here. I think the people who make these comments are idiots! The sheep will be shorne! Some people even welcome inflation because that means that their house will go up in value!

BTW, no one ever heard about the Japanese PM talking about gold purchases, meant in jest or otherwise.

I going to the gym to work out now, else I shall blow a fuse or two. Then you will know how mad a panda bear can get! It's truly an awful sight.

RUMOURS

Steve, I've been thinking about your post all day ( the Platinum paragraph ) . I gotta tell you that I've been thinking the same thing and it makes sense. I have thought all along that the Russkies will not be delivering nearly as much metal ( of that we shall soon see ) as they say.
If they can hold out - monetarily speaking- than they should not deliver.
Right or wrong gang? Wouldn't this be a good thing to help propel themselves into the G-8, Democracy, etc? If one of you Kitco Demi-Gods can pick up where I left off or clean my thought up I, and the group, would appreciate it.

This leads me to another Hypothesis...if I may. Think of this:
DR. JECKYL = MR. HYDE
BT = RJ I haven't figured out which person relates to the other. RJ lives vicariously through BT - or vice-versa. And he's having a blast too! NO?

RJ has been telling us all along about PLATINUM. "The PL markets are thin enough to move them"[significantly]. RJ, We can all appreciate that you must be discreet and we also appreciate you ALLUDING to this and that.

PL TO THE MOOOOON!!

AWAY!

EB

PL...the other WHITE metal...or is that pork

XAU - The XAU had little punch today even with a 200 point rally. Look for the XAU to retest the 94-95 area over the next 2-3 days. If this retest is successful ( which I think it will be ) we should be off to the races.

Lan Man & Donald: Regarding charts 56 and 58 in Total Collapse. I use M1 and M3 as the Federal Reserve defines them in their weekly reports. Hence, they do include currency that is circulating overseas. Adjusting out overseas currency, the charts would look worse.

Updated numbers: CHART 56: The M1 contraction has steepend -- it's now falling at a -5.6% annual rate.

CHART 58: Investment liquidity: 1929 was the all-time low at 22.4%. January 1997 was 23.9%. Last Friday, June 23, 1997 -- 22.7% about equal to September 1929!!! If we take overseas currency out of the M3 number, it's now probably below the 22.4% in 1929.

Donald: If the $168 billion figure for US currency "circulating abroad" is good, just 10% of it would buy about 49.4 million ounces @ $340. LET THE CB's SELL.
If that money is controlled by the black markets, even 10% may be a low figure for possible gold purchases.
Also Russia is in the process of approving gold sales to the public through its banks.

Not much going on in the "trading pits". I've been hanging around the gold and silver options markets for a little while each day. I'm tring to learn the ins and outs and all. I've even made a couple markets for some small traders and then got out the same day. ( ie - day trading/ scalping in the options market ) With the small range gold and silver are having each day this is no easy task. Some of the other traders gave me some advise. One piece that really cracks me up is "There is never a bad price to sell calls at". ie - No matter what price you sell a call at it will be even lower soon enough. I do not think this came about with this decline. This joke sounded like it's been around for quiet awhile.
Well for what it's worth I still do not think Gold has found a bottom yet. I'm not real sure where the bottom is but I ask myself "Was that the bottom" at least twice a day and I keep answering no. So I'm still currently short.

As far as the US stock market goes I really feel like short are warrented here. The question is where do you enter and where do you place a stop. Anyway time is clearly running out and any rally in the S&P will be more of a retest of current highes than a new wave up. We will NOT see DOW 8000 this summer!

The comments from the PM of Japan were very interesting. Sell US Bonds and buy Gold. Who would have thought of that idea..... well I mean who besides the people who read this bullitin board regularly?

Front: moving money daily in Fidelity has some limitations. E.g., some
international funds attach a redemption fee ( 1-1.5% ) for shares kept
less than 90 days. Some funds in select sector ( e.g. American Gold )
has a redemption fee of .75% or $7.50 for funds kept less than 30 days.
Considering that there is no sales commission or maintenance fee its
not bad. So when you move 20-30K you dont feel it so much.
I am bleeding much more from latest drop of FSAGX and FDPMX.
( 50 .. 47 .. 45 .. ENOUGH!! )

If you take out money before the age of 59 you pay 10% penalty and full
tax.

Unfortunately, you can not buy bullion - maybe the penalty would not
be so bad.

Look EBN Gold Quotes NOW at Gold = $837.20

Up $499.55 or 147%.

Ha...!

Geeee

Check out the recent EBN Quote for things to come shortly. If it were only true.

PANDA: Panda, baby, ( re your 19:10 ) I remember when a 10 point move in the DOW was big stuff. I bought my first share of stock in 1969. Know what? 100 points nowadays is same same. It IS percentage that is important. This is normal volatility as we approach a top. Watch the bonds, 113 is critical.

Panda June 25 @ 19:10 I also, was a citizen as you described in your post
be patient, there is hope for all. At least you are getting a re-action,
although, not at the level that exists at this outstanding site ( Kitco )

On the subject, of blind trust in the Media. Regarding the 1930's and
News reporting, there is hope, to be sure, everything has a cycle. Mind
ful of the fact, that all good things take *TIME*

Example:
In looking back, the early 1930's should have promised a time of consid-
erable advancement for most media workers. In the USofA, the events of
the Depression had enhanced the authority of those invested in recording
the events of public life, and many media workers felt that their report-
age-in word, image, or a combination of both--constituted the performance
of an essential social duty. As one wire editor opined in 1932," to dig
themselves out of depression, people must think and they cannot think
unless they are reliably informed " ( Cooper 1932,6 )

The potential for advancement, however, was unevenly spread across
different kinds of newsworkers. Coming off of what in one view
constituted a general "repudiation of the press" reporters appeared to
suffer the most. ( filled with doubt and insecurity ) In the views of some,
not only had the press belittled evidence of the Depression, but its
experiments with tabloidlike journalism and excessive commercialism
constituted what one critic later called "playing for the crowds"

Journalists and journalism educators "were squeezed by both sides";
conservatives wanted better and stronger censorship, and
progressives were bothered by the big business interests of the press.

All of this meant that journalistic professionalism, until then on the
rise, "suffered a loss of momentum". It is thus perhaps no surprise that
journalists suffered a loss of credibility in the public eye. The end of
the 1930's was marked by distrust of the press, and public opinion polls
reported that at least one in three people disbelieved what he or she
read in the newspapers. ( Stott 1973,79; - Olson 1935 )

Fundy: I am quite happy for gold to go up...technically it should.
But WILL it? While I am aware about the CB line about gold becoming the silver of the 1870's, lets think for a bit. Gold is a commodity like anything else. It goes up & down. When Gold Peaks at a Zillion dollars an ounce, what are you going to invest in THEN? There is more going on here than we are being led to believe.

Joe Gutnick's claim to fame is due to his highly interlinking company structure, and his brillilant exploration man, Ed Eshuys. I do have some good contacts.

Hence, I will repost what I was told:

The stock market will crash by October ( at the latest-no surprise )

US interest rates will rise to 33% for 4 to 6 months
( as we are being totally lied to about inflation. What do you think the inflation rate is in the stock market at the moment?? )

Australian interest rates will rise to 17% for same period

Platinum to rise further, & become the "new" gold ( hence correlating
with sales of gold by central banks, even during the financial crisis )

Gold price will diminish down to $127 oz, as investors will ignore it,
or is dumped on market by CB's. ( I hope this bit doesn't happen, it shouldn't due to fear factor )

Platinum will be Russia's new Reserve currency, as they don't have one.
They are totally broke, & need to find a new currency. Australia now has some very large 5 year forward contracts with Russia on Platinum.

Asian countries buying Platinum etc. While they put up the smoke-screen
of Hashimoto that they are buying gold. Seems strange for Mr Jap Finance
to be making such an overt public comment, despite understanding the
background scenario. If you want to get a good book, read "The Asian Mind Game". What if they were buying something else on the
quiet?? WHO is driving the platinum price up anyway??

Can't prove any of this, & this is hard to post, ( considering a few individuals on this site are not gracious enough to do some lateral thinking once in a while ) . I do know WHAT people think on this site. The bond charts certainly indicate that interest rates will rise.

However, if all of this does happen, remember this prediction.
I am gutsy enough to leave my email address too!! Unlike a few gutless wonders on this site.

WW; Neil -- Two marvelous postings. Neil, don't lurk anymore! A lot of 'interesting' news typically comes from other continents. 'Rock and a hard place', INDEED he is! Very very little wiggle room left! Damned if he does raise rates, and damned if he doesn't! Damned if he leaves them alone, though that 'might' be the safest thing to do, and use 'scare' tactics from various sources and 'make' the market calm the raging bull and perform the magic on the currencies. Might even work for a short while. No cure though.

All : Hopefully the shape of things to come. Check out spot gold on EBN http://www.ebn.co.uk/HTMFILES/MKTSCOMM.HTML-SSI

Every once in a while there is a post that starts like this: I have been lurking on this site for couple of months. This is my first post. Than it is followed by some kind of typical novice question. In my case there is no question. You guys have answered all of them. Reading Kitco is truly enriching ( so far mostly spiritually ) . However, the purpose of my first post is not to praise you. I have an amazing story for you.

To All: You are not going to believe this. Today I saw the CREATOR, our CREATOR !!! He exists!!! He is alive!! I stood in front of him, couldnt touch him, but He did speak to me. Wait, wait, dont dismiss my post yet. Listen to this. He also thinks that gold is being manipulated!!! Two days ago it was Hashimoto, today the CREATOR himself. And all that just as I started thinking that we all are a bit paranoid.

I kid you not ! I met Bart the CREATOR in person! Actually, I visited him today in his office in Montreal. ( I too live in Montreal ) . He is a very nice guy. Even though he was busy, he found half an hour for me. I think it was an interesting experience for both of us. You see someone for the first time in your life and you already have something in common - many people who through their posts have become sort of your mutual friends. What do you think about Mr. Xs idea ? Mr. Y is my favorite. What happened with Mr. ZOOO? How come he is not posting anymore?

And on and on we went. I didnt look at my watch but as soon as I got out of the building and saw my wifes face I knew it was too long. She was waiting in the car while I was supposed to go and get the Maple leaf coin that we bought as a gift .

I expressed my gratitude to Bart for this excellent site that he has created and is successfully running. Being a modest guy he downplayed his own contribution to the site.

To make a long story short. Bart is exactly as any of as thought he would be. Great!!

Bart, Thanks for the site !!!

Fresh from
http://www.cnnfn.com/markets/9706/25/marketwrap/

Rumors sink Wall Street

Talk that Asian bank dumped Treasurys sparks frenzy in market
June 25, 1997: 5:06 p.m. ET

NEW YORK ( CNNfn ) -- Renewed concerns that Japanese investors might sell U.S. Treasurys cut into bond prices on Wednesday, sending blue chips on the wildest of carnival rides.
The Dow Jones industrial average traded in a 182-point range, gaining as many as 53 points in the morning, then plunging 129 points in the late afternoon. By the close, blue chips stabilized somewhat and the fickle index closed down 68.08 points at 7,689.98.
Don Hays, direct of investment strategy at Wheat First Butcher Singer, compared the market to a racing car reaching an unheard of speed. "We've got this tremendous velocity going on and the market has lost its shock absorbers," he said. "I expect to see this kind of volatility from here on until the market eases off some of these valuation problems."
The selloff came as market players reacted to rumors that a hedge fund controlled by an Asian bank sold $1 billion in U.S. 10-year notes. On Monday, Japan's Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto suggested that Japanese investors could sell their U.S. bonds to keep the dollar strong against the yen. Blue chips lost 192 points in reaction to that comment and the frenzied mood attributed to Hashimoto quickly ignited a second round of selling on the fresh rumors.
Although no one was certain late Wednesday what had happened -- speculation on the identity of the seller ran from the Bank of Japan to the Bank of China -- traders fled bonds. The price of the 30-year Treasury fell 19/32, lifting the yield to 6.73 percent and adding pressure to sell stocks.

Reminds me of december when Greenspan warned the market then later fired the first .25% salvo.
Could Hashimoto's comment have been a warning and this the first shot.
Or do we just have a very nervous market.

Also this morning in Aussie land we have Clinton on the news ( CNN ) .
Talking about his sexual preferences and airing his dirty laundry. YUK!!!

Re: Hashimoto's statement.
All CBs and Govs know what dangerous situation we are facing.
Greenspan warned markets of irrational exuberence... and nothing, no response. If he increases interest rates... market will plunge and he will be blamed. If he does nothing he will be blamed for not doing anything. Hashimotos statment is premeditated and agreed upon by G8 and is designed to scare the market. It is designed to save Greenspan! Better Hashimoto than Greenspan in the eyes of US investors.

RE CHINA AND ECONOMY/GOLD: I have a good friend who works for an international organization/is a Chinese Citizen stationed in USA/ and is a member in high standing of the Communist Party of China. We discuss politics and economics openly. I asked him about China's movement towards Free Markets. He stated that the allowance of free mkt "in certain regions" was to strengthen socialism. He stated the Chinese Govt is committed to Socialism but recognizes the use of Capitalism in achieving the final goal of advanced Communism. He stated that Capitalism is better at achieving certain things and the Party unlike in other former or still socialist countries recognizes this. However, the bad effects of capitalism are kept removed from 80% of the people thus preventing its ethic from overtaking the country. He stated the Police and the Peoples Liberation Army are important in preventing a total free mkt takeover and a return to feudalism or domination by Japan ( which many remember and revile ) . Nevertheless, he says the people would never really attack the party as they realize many benefits and protections would be lost. He believes Russia will ultimately be pushed back into the Socialist camp given the disasterous results for most Russians under the new govt ( which he says are not completely reported in our press ) . They show pictures and stories from Russia to demonstrate what could happen if the party lost power.

He was very bullish on gold and said "it is a basis for creating faith in a strong Socialist currency." He said US attacks on China re Tianamen massacre in 1989 were an attempt to deal a death blow to Socialism in light of European Socialism's decline at the time. He stated it didnt work and that the growing inequalities in the West were working in favor of their system and gold given the ABSOLUTE need for the US to remain stable. I dont agree but what if the econ debacle we all predict actually occurs. Any thoughts.

Steve ( Perth - Western Australia ) "Gutsy enough"; I will give you that
steve, good shot, eh! Reasonable prediction. I for one will
take note. ( Gutless wonder I am, ha,ha,I appreciate your remark )

Slick willie and star remind me of the two guys walking across the bridge over the river. They stop to pee. One says "boy that water is cold " and the other says "yea and deep too".

All : Here is the Rubinspin for damage control, based on a wing and a prayer. See http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/06/25/z0002_10.html

Simple Man -- I can agree with that. That's their first line of defense; scare tactics, and a liberal dose of dollars to keep things in 'control'. We are all a BIG happy family, and nothing escapes the lips of the powers that be without a plan being in effect. It does though put a crack in the dam. The G word has been mentioned. Paper has been brought up. Debt has been mentioned. Game plan? What's on their minds? Would the G word have been mentioned if only paper and debt might have sufficed? Maybe the BIG happy family concept is also a lie past a certain extent!

Internationally acclaimed Market Analyst asserts over-valuation, irrational exuberance, expanded risk-exposure & technical hyper over-extension will cause horrendous losses when bubble bursts. See Editorials:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials.html

Regarding rumors or speculation that Japanese may sell U.S.
Treasury Bonds; If they sell them, what would they do with the
money they will get for them? Buy more U.S. Trearury Bonds?
Other Bonds? Rockefeller Center? Pebble Beach? MGM? First they
they have to find a place to put the money they will get from any
possible sale. Will they buy gold? They can buy gold now with their
tremendous trade surplus every month and every year but don't.
Comment?

NJ -- What he fails to mention is that if Japan sells, so does everybody else. It'll be the loudest belch ever heard as everone gets up and leaves the table! Who'll want to be the barf bag holder?

Steve ( Perth W.A. ) :
WE know who moves price... GO RJ!

AWAY!

EB

Hashimoto: "I could kick your a**"
Rubin: "Try me, little man with no punch"
Hashimoto: " ??? "

Will this playground spat escalate?

George W. Loh: Good questions. I'll take a stab at answering. The Japanese banks are carrying many "non-performing" loans and could use the proceeds from U.S. bond sales to help defray the cost of writing down the bad debt. They could buy gold. They could buy more U.S. companies. The important point ( IMHO ) from Hashimoto was the connection between selling bonds and then buying gold. It signals disrespect for the dollar as reserve currency, or at least a warning to our Fed and president. Hashi is disrespecting ( dissin' ) Bill and Alan and Bob because he perceives excessive arrogance in greater quantities than irrational exuberance. The bond sale today is a live shot across the bow. The splash is real. It remains to be seen if the U.S. president and advisors can smooth the waters.

Is gold going to sit in limbo between 336-339 for the rest of my life?

When are those tosses going to get the hint that gold is NOT going to go down past 335 and start buying!!!!!!!!!!

Puetz, I am hurt beyond hurting that you disparage my cowboy joke, a joke dedicated to the last bastion of rugged individualism outside this hardhitting website. I'm going to just rustle back into my joke archive for something with more bang.

EB: Thank you for your support. Hope my source in wrong, but it comes via a French Company here is Australia linked to Platinum ( In Australia, EB stands for "Emu Bitter" Beer!! A decent drop.

6pak: Maybe gold will move up for a while, then drop to under $200 oz.
I feel we are on the verge of some MAJOR international power shifts.
So big, we have no idea how it is going to pan out. Watch China & the Japs. The Japs & other Asian countries have bought a LOT of real estate here in Australia. We will see how beneficial that will be in the future.
Really, we have the makings of a decent War down the track.

The bottom line of all the debt paper out there is that it all must be repatriated, one way or another! How it gets done will not alleviate the pain, only the amount of pain absorbed in a given period of time. But to also remain as any kind of power in the world also means that very substantial steps be taken at the same time, and preferably before, that will put 'worth' back into the currency. Seeing how our 'worth' in 'promise to pay' is diminishing by the day, and coming to an end at any time, it behooves the government to begin it's own paradigm shift in thinking. After all, if they want to maintain control... What better way than to finally allow gold to rise over time to a level where the currency could be appropriately backed by it. It won't alleviate the pain of the debt that must be extinguished, but it would allow this country to carry on 'honest', non-debt-based trade. At this time, this is the only possible means of salvaging a bad situation that I see! Discussion would be most welcomed!

While the markets quiver with lack of decisiveness I'm going to go ahead and post the following Catholic joke especially for Puetz--enjoy.

A very spiritual, devout and holy priest dies and is immediately swept
up to heaven.

St. Peter greets him at the Pearly Gates, and says, "Hello, Father,
we've been waiting for you for a long time. Welcome to Heaven! You
are very well known here, and as a special reward, because you are
such a spiritual and holy man, we're going to grant you anything
you wish even before we enter Heaven. What can I grant you?"

"Well", the priest says, "I've always been a great admirer of the
Virgin Mother. I've always wanted to talk to her."

St. Peter nods his head to one side, and lo and behold who should
approach the priest but the Virgin Mary!

The priest is beside himself, and he manages to say, "Mother, I
have always been a great admirer of yours, and have studied
everything I could about you and followed your life as best I
could. I have studied every painting and portrait ever made of
you, and I've noticed that you are always protrayed with a
slightly sad look on your face. I have always, always wondered
what it was that made you sad. Would you please tell me?"

"Well", says Mother Mary, "honestly, I was really hoping for a girl."

Tortfeasor: Pay no attention to the critics and keep 'em coming. Some of us understand cowboy humor.

Mr. Puetz: Please don't antagonize the entertainer, those spurs are real.

Vronsky: The Strategic Investor article is top notch. It would appear that the pace of events is quickening.

First the Fed Chums and Buddies CB's sell gold, rumor to sell gold. Fed has a study saying it should too. Keep the Au down. Now someone is threatening to sell Fed's paper, now someone is selling Fed paper.. ironic, isn't it? Anybody remember MR Yen saying dollar too high? It's not as high now is it at 113 yen from as high as 127? The japanese gave a clear warning on that also. I take Mr Hashimoto at his word, japan has been sufferring since it's bubble market broke, they will not put up with currency manipulation again for US trade wishes. The japan that can say no may have arrived.

Steve, I don't know if Platinum can fit the bill. It might be too rare.

Gold up 60c; Expect a gold rally towards close this week and next. Today represents excellent buying opportunity. For all you who think gold will go to $200oz: "I have a car I want to sell you"!

Front, miro, ali: I checked out the small print in a couple of fund prospectuses ( prospecti? ) that I had around. Front. you are right. In all of them there is a clause that allows them to defer redemption and/or payment if a ) trading on NYSE is restricted or the exchange is closed, b ) the SEC has by order permitted such suspension, or c ) an emergency, as defined by the rules of the SEC making disposal of portfolio investments or determination of the value of the net assets of the fund not reasonably practicable. Miro, I didnt see any exceptions for 401k accounts. Are you sure these are exempt? In any case, what a frightening image this paints. Millions of people trying desperately to move their assets to a "safe" place but having them tied up indefinitely by government edict!!

I assume money market funds are subject to the same restrictions, so these are no good. Keeping uncommitted funds in brokerage accounts is not much better, even in cash, as they probably have it tucked away somewhere else that is not safe. I guess precious metal stocks and/or the metals themselves are the only save place to be. Time to start making some adjustments.

GVC: Hope you are right that SA gold stocks are the place to be in the coming rally. Im in pretty deep and have been obviously taking my lashes. And I couldnt help adding BLYDY to my position with the beating its taken lately. ( You can expect another  point drop in BLYDY any day now. Sorry John D.  I couldnt resist it. )

EBN Gold up .45 and I guess that's where the billion from bonds is going. Oil is going up on Saudi/Iran rumors. Interestin' times ahead.

Gold up 80c ( kitco ) 55c ( London ) ; mmmmn here come that $200oz hahahahaha

steve-in-australia

would like to apologize for the example of what a president
should not be, visiting your country.
can ya'll tie him up so he does not get lost, or tear
another ligament on one of his early morning wanderings.
hard to believe he is SUPPOSED to be represenative of
our country!

the pundits have been telling everybody that these huge
swings in the paper indicies are to be expected due
to the huge volume and record highs. could all the ANALysts
be wrong? again? the bullish sentiment was at all time highs
right before the '29 crash. does history repeat itself?
can the past tell us the future?

no one KNOWS AS MUCH AS YOU think they know!!!

use you own mind, to make YOUR OWN decisions.

some folks will believe ANYTHING!

PAPER DOWN --- STUFF UP.

it has happened before, and it is
fixing to happen again.

the hashimoto a-bomb is a sign of the times. they are a changing!
the paper beast has a terminal illness. its' death throes will
rip asunder the entire financial system. the new world order
has planned this debacle so as to gain another block of power
from those whom they so AVIDly serve! whom are the servants,
and whom are served????? riki don't lose that number! ( steely dan )

cherokee!; ) server of dilithium crystals to the ssm.

FWIW, regarding mutual funds, I've never liked them. With regards to redemption during 'extrordinary' circumstances, if I remember correctly, the funds only have to pay out five ( 5 ) percent of your holdings per month. They also can payout 'in kind'. In other words, they can give you the shares of stocks that make up the fund. You can be sure of one thing, you won't be getting the 'blue chip' shares of your fund. Again, if memory serves me, I think this came about in the early seventies via the SEC in the U.S. I don't know about elsewhere.

speed---

what rumors associated with saudi\iran???

Gold up and ralling !!! yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh! up 75c London

I dont want to get off the gold topic completely ( but this is govt related ) but I want to mention something that one of my doctor friends invited me to participate in. Apparently according to the AMA there are businesses and property owners who have been negligent about not discovering Land mines of all things which were planted by public companies for purposes of excavation and even mining. Apparently many injuries are taking place which require medical expertise regarding prosthetics for which some of the injured have no insurance coverage. The lawyers come in to find the guilty party to provide coverage to pay the doctors plus pay for any future injuries if appropriate so as to defray taxpayer costs if govt pays vis a vis private enterprise. However, because of the statute of limitations many suits atre barred. It is an interesting and important area for the legal and medical people to cooperate. I heard Rush Limbaugh disparage the land mine effort b/c it was headed by William Kennedy Smith. Rush hasnt had a limb blown off by a land mine so he should keep his mouth shut.

Today's, Wednesday's, market action continues to strengthen/confirm that a dramatic up-side reversal in gold and silver prices, and related investments, is 'at hand'. This new bull market in precious metals will dwarf anything seen, in any market, before. Large blocks & millions of shares, of major precious metals mining companies' stocks, have been, and are being, exchanged, and accumulated, by 'strong money' at these historic lows.

Date: Tue Jun 24 1997 23:20
David Blair Macrory ( goldfevr@pacbell.net ) :
An increasing number of this market-student's "pieces of the puzzle", suggest that gold &
silver are very likely completing their bottoming-formation. A major, or primary
trend-reversal, with potentially explosive upside potential -- both for the precious metals,
and for gold & silver mining stocks -- may be imminent, in this holiday period.
#1. Commitment of Traders patterns.
#2. Numerous divergences/technical indicators: oscillators, price and volume relationships.
#3. Gold currently hitting new lows, for this trading period; while
silver is giving increasing clues that it will likely not confirm.
In other words, silver prices will likely not hit new lows, versus gold's
recent/current new lows. And, in the recent/current trading period, silver prices will very
likely not drop below silver's own recent-past lows of early January, and late April, ( - while
gold has/is ) .
#4. Increasing volatility, and uncertainty, in other investment markets.

There is no guarantee or 'promise', stated, or suggested, in these
comments; they are only my personal opinions. As such, these
observations are for the sake of joining-in, for mutual sharing, and/or for educational
purposes. They are not to be construed as a recommendation or solicitation, to buy or sell
any particular investments.

Sincerely,
David Blair Macrory

Panda -- 'The Privateer' has had an editorial to that affect for the longest time. Maybe it is still there. I'm rather surprised everyone hasn't seen it by now. A most excellent article about the SEC regulation and what it means! But what you say is true. 'Repayment in kind', though the 'kind' is not necessarily in the same stock. Only that it is stock! And I don't believe that it is relegated to just the MFs!

cherokee -- I think it has more to do with Voorlons and The Shadows.

Regarding my earlier temper tantrum, warm weather is tough on us panda's. My comments on the volatility had more to do with the psychology of the, "Quick Buck." We get a two to three percent dip, people jump in figuring that this is a good 'buying' oppertunity. Others on the side line, see their brethren 'making money', not realizing what a psychological strain it is to put money at risk. At some point, these 'weak hands' get so stressed out that they bailout. Thus, the volatility. The question is, how many times can you flex the wire before it breaks? The only clue that you get, is the frictional heating that takes place in the wire. Once you notice the heat, the end is very near. Now, how hot is the market?

Steve ( Perth - Western Australia ) @ 21:40 I watch the posts of George S.
Cole, he is mindful of the rise, and then the pull back of gold. He is
very steady, and appears to read the signs, very well. He has not
suggested a $200.00 oz. but, can anyone truly know at this point.

Very interested in your remarks regarding the purchase of your country's
large land holdings. Canada, also has seen, and continues to see large
amounts of land purchase's, of international interests. Yes, all
citizens of each country should be concerned, as I expect you are, as I
am also. Wealth knows no borders, or citizenship.

On a positive note, for gold, these international interests, may have
run out of their need for land, and now realize, that they will have
to institute a war to protect their land holdings. Instead of war, and
the cost of armies, they maybe turning their attention to precious
metals, and will be able to better protect their wealth, until the world settles down. Chaos and Flux, is not good for business.

Here's a question for all. Which block, Asian, European, USA, could run their printing presses fast enough to buy all of the gold first? :- ) )

Not that the Globex means that much anymore ( as an indicator ) , it looks like an early no confidence vote.

Cherokee: Mike Sheller this am posted this:

Date: Wed Jun 25 1997 12:57
Mike Sheller ( I don't care if it's cloudy or brite ) :
A valuable demo of how astrology can be an aid in windows ( time ) and watching thru them...
Gold-Eagle's next to last edition of The Astrological Investor featured, among other predictions, "SAUDI ARABIA - we are fixed on June 19, 20, 21 here as Mars conjuncts Saudi's Sun at 0 degrees Libra...Potent energies as a background to this potentially aggravating aspect for Saudi Arabia. Watch the news here. End of June features several other aspects falling into place."

Well, Saudi Arabia IS aggravated. Today's Wall Street Journal ( June 25 ) reports in the Commodities section that Saudi Arabia and Iran have announced agreement to work together to prod other OPEC members to curtail oil production with the goal of raising world oil prices by as much as $4. While this unusual alliance is quite powerful, it is expected that there will not be much of a change in attitude concerning chronic quota busting by other OPEC members.
By the way, Saturn is now at 19 Aries, conjuncting NYSE Moon. Will it finally launch silver as it did in '68? As analyzed months ago, July still promises to be HOT!

Panda -- If the US hasn't loaned it all out, we have something like 35,000 tons. Beyond that, I believe we also have the fastest presses in the west as well as in the east. But if we were to buy more, it better be done before no one wants the dollar anymore!

Seems Rubinspan not buying SPOOs on Globex tonight. http://www.cme.com/cgi-bin/gflash.cgi.

WW: There are no land mines in Vermont, unless Ted placed some while traveling. Get the whole story before posting and remember RUSH is right! I enjoy your posts on gold, this land mine thing is off the wall. Gotta be at work at sun up, so catch you later.

Tort: Just having fun with you. The first thing I look for every morning is your joke of the morning. The heck with all of this market stuff, that's secondary!! Keep the jokes coming -- even cowboy jokes if ya' have to!!!

6pack:Re purchase of Large owner trackts of land in Canada by
foreigners.
Only Canadians or Landed Immigrants can legaly purchase and own
title to large tracts of land here.
Foreigners may purchase a home or small a small parcel of land around
the home.
Any other sales or transactions are legaly not possible.

DJ, Front, Panda: In the 1930s, it was a run-on-the-banks that broke many people -- that's where they had their savings. In the 1990s, it's likely to be a run-on-the-mutual-funds that wipes out people's savings. You are right!!! Mutual funds will experience suspensions, failures, and closures -- just like the banks in the 1930s.

Do suspose the government will then create an FDIC for the stock market? ( laugh, laugh )

Eldorado : Rubin interview gives a number of $300 billion in long term US bonds held by Japan. Today's nervous breakdown in the market was caused by the 'rumor' of just 1 billion sale by a foreign CB. Yet we are to believe that even a concerted sale would cause nothing more than a temporary disruption.

TO SASHA: The pleasure was mine. BTW I didn't even get a chance to say thank you for shopping at Kitco!

ALL: Looks like a mini-panic is stirring up again tonight. S&P futures now off 2.00 points. T-Bonds of 3. Gold now up $1.20. Whenever stocks and bonds tank, gold rallies. Watch for stocks and bonds to break down tomorrow, watch for an upside break-out in gold and silver.

I wonder if Iran or Iraq or anyone else now can pressure the US gov't by running the gold price up? It would sure be cheaper than war.

Prutez: I'm banking on it : )

Since a few are making predictions, I might as well give you
my vision. This is line with the Barrons' round table article
this week. while reading it I got a vision of 4800 on the
Dow-Jones Industrials Index by the end of December 1997.

Now, cheer up: Lena Put a hammer by every guest's plate
because she was serving pound cake for dessert.

Politicians divide their time between running for office and running for cover.
:- ) }}

My live prices at my brokers site has just crashed. This is usually caused by too many people accessing the server! Mmmmm something is brewing here in Australia at the moment. Wall Street should be interesting tonight!

ELDO: re your 21:48...I agree but the scenario will be,"gold backs the euro-dollar", after of course, all other avenues fail. Possibly, Asia may play "devil's advocate" to bring down the dollar; then a white knight, European of course, suggests....GOLD to bring solidity back to world financial markets via the mighty EURO ( dollar ) .

Check out ASA daily chart-- volume has been drying up on recent decline. Then look at ASA monthly chart. Sure as hell looks like long term support at $30/share. I have a very strong feeling the US markets are gonna go down the tubes in short order, and metals are gonna ROCK & ROLL!!

Crystal Ball: I'm with you!

XAU up 2 last night, we have the right preludes!

NJ -- Perspective man! Perspective! :- ) ) :- ) ) :- ) )

Didn't O'Neil, the founder of Investors Business Daily, run some go-go funds in the late sixties and early seventies that went bust? Don't get me wrong, the Newspaper is pretty good for what it is, momentum style investing. Was that an oxymoron? Momentum style investing? Hmmm, must be getting late....... Paradigm shifts, they can be painful!

PANDA: good analogy!!!

Walter hole June 25 @ 22:52 I disagree with your position, Walter,
unless, your reference is to individual's only. And not multinational
Corporations, and their legal Canadian Corporate status.

More Info: When the correction occurs ( before October - prob. August ) , then Gold will get to US$586-620 short term. Technically that makes sense. ( All Kitco freaks breathe a sigh of relief! ) But will turn out to be too dear long term. However, it will then drop down to approx US$132 long term.

Japan reportedly has been buying platinum recently, in addition to China. Hence the big platinum spike upwards. They are supposed combine buying later, so that they form a new Asian currency block. They want Platinum around US$127 oz long term average, with Gold around the same area.

Platinum becomes the new reserve currency for the new Asian APEC Block. It IS short in supply. Remember, the NWO boys must have 3 major trading blocks. Europe, Asia & NAFTA. ( For the next stage ) Hence, they are all in on the deal, CB's included. Currently, the Asian area is not properly formed from a currency point of view.

I do not think much of this is happening by accident.

Q. Don't you find it interesting that Hashimoto came out with this just on the eve of the recent Bilderberger Conflab in the US???? I do agree that it is smarter for Hashimoto to do Greenspan's dirty work for him, as many people around the world are awake to the real operation of the US Federal Reserve.

I then concur with CHEROKEE's view:
"the new world order has planned this debacle so as to gain another block of power from those whom they so AVIDly serve!"

Remember, not all news "spin" is error. Often it is true, but timed for maximum impact.

Morning all. I spent nine months in Clute, Texas last year and to all my buddies in the Houston area: Y'all's market is fixin' te crash!

I appreciate the one or two comments on my posting last night ( afternoon your time ) - more please!! Could someone please give me an idea of what the short term effects of crash will have on US and Canadian Gold stocks. The SA market is only just starting to hot up and is way behind Wall Street in irrational exuberance due to the cool headedness of our Central Bank Governer Chris Stals - interest rates still at about 17%! The SA market will definitely follow Wall Street's cue during a crash but I am hoping our already thumped gold shares will get off lightly.

I'm off to work now. Happy nail-biting!

What is wrong with Kitco price updates!!!! If anyone has a better site that updates gold faster I'd love it if you could share!