Hello Mike:

I am going to fax the GSTD stuff to my mom who is always doing her "charts".

rob

ROB: Give my best to your Mom from a fellow astrologer! Nite All!

Damnable KGB lies!

Nominations are being taken for "Blood Boiling" posts of the day. I'll open the nominations with one from GSC @ 20:58. I'm genuinely surprised no one commented on it. While reading it many things will come to mind. Armed insurrection is prominent.

The second is from 6pak @22:19. Sound stuff of the historical sort. And further indication of how bankrupt the system really is. Both articles are but one more example of whose interests are really being served. For those in doubt; do not look in the mirror while asking the question.

The internet will one day prove to be the undoing of these consummate jerks. ..... in a hunert years or so.

RJ: Yeah, I agree. It's also conspiratorial. I was laughing so hard at that last KGB post - done at your expense, I might add - anyway, I was laughing so hard, I did not notice some sneaky KGB bastard snuck up behind me and stole my wallet. When I turned around, he peed in my coffee cup. ....... maybe it was some out at elbows metals broker. I dunno. I just know I'm broke and that had to be the way it happened.

Mike Sheller
I realize that my post regarding "Flation" may have sounded some what
equivical, however,since I don't see stability in the markets my point is
that the sequence of events will be a contraction of the credit markets
followed by a printing party.I ,in no way,wanted to dismiss the interesting discussion on this subject earlier in the evening.

SENATOR ROBERT L. OWEN testifying before the House Committee on Banking
and Currency in 1938, said:

"I wrote into the bill which was introduced by me in the Senate on June
26, 1913, a provision that the powers of the System should be employed
to promote a stable price level, which meant a dollar of stable
purchasing, debt-paying power. ** It was stricken out.** The powerful
money interests got control of the Federal Reserve Board through Mr.
Paul Warburg, Mr. Albert Strauss, and Mr. Adolph C. Miller and they were
able to have that secret meeting of May 18 1920, and bring about a
contraction of credit so violent it threw five million people out of
employment.

In 1920 that Reserve Board deliberately caused the *PANIC OF 1921* The
same people, unrestrained in the stock market, expanded credit to a
great excess between 1926 and 1929, raised the price of stocks to a
fantastic point where they could not possibly earn dividends, and when
the people realized this, they tried to get out, resulting in the Crash
of October 24, 1929"

Governor W.P.G. Harding of the Federal Reserve Board testified in 1921
that::
"The Federal Reserve Bank is an institution owned by the stockholding
member banks. The Government has not a dollar's worth of stock in it "

However, the Government does give the Federal Reserve System the use of
its billions of dollars of credit, and this gives the Federal Reserve
its characteristic of a central bank, the power to issue currency on the
Governments credit

W. Randolph Burgess, of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, stated
before the Academy of Political Science in 1930 that:
" In its major principles of operation the Federal Reserve System is no
different from other banks of issue, such as the Bank of England, the
Bank of France, or the Reichsbank."

For Madame Barb-ette@barbedoe ranch july 20 11.47
( she sound so fascinaTING ) - I also make zee deetto.

Steve - Perth: If the CB meeting in Shanghai has a video link, slick willy himself will probably attend.

Refer: I can personally vouch for the fact that the S. African gold stock do worst in a down market. I haven't experienced the other part yet! However, what goes down must come up ( I hope ) . You have your choice of many good mines that have been brutalized. Good luck. The Durban Deep, Blyvoor, and Buffles companies which are merging have been hit very hard, and are worth a look. John Disney has posted many times on these and others. Search for his posts.

Auroelf: Re: Vancouver BC, take the Grouse Mtn. tram for the view, not the food. A few miles west on Highway 1 in North Vancouver is the Salmon House on the Hill. Great NW atmosphere, fabulous evening view ( if no fog ) , and salmon as good as any I have had anywhere.

Re: Orcas, first you must downshift into low to mesh with pace of life on the islands. You can do this on the ferry ride over. Unlike the high spots in Vancouver and Victoria, Orcas requires leisurely savoring. Sunday brunch at Rosario Resort is grand. It was the private home of one of Seattle's shipbuilder barons and is crammed with history. The view from the top of Mt. Constitution is worth the drive - highest point in the San Juans. A marguarita or two on the deck of the restaurant/lounge at Deer Harbor, followed by a stroll along the bluff to the south to watch the sun go down is a great way to end a day. You can still catch the last ferry out. Orcas Island is a gem and one of my favorite places. Enjoy - and let me know if you find any other highlights I might have missed.

My point exactly! Only now do you realize: This is not the first time they have peed in your cup. When will we fight back? We give them billions, our wheat feeds their elite and proletariat alike. Where is the gratitude? They dangle the world at the end of a platinum wire, slowly dipping us underneath seas of gullibility, finally raising us, gasping for breath, and clutching feebly at whatever egregious tales they feed us. Got your wallet you say? Serves you right for finding their fanciful inventions amusing.

Donald: this tramway moves so fast that people you were speaking to on the upride are now long gone. nevertheless, while it is true that credit improperly extended simply disappears--as do stock values and real estate values in a decline, without an offsetting profit to the opposite party--the extent of the credit loss is a marketing cost or general cost of doing business. such losses have been honed to a level which is within the range of continued profit. if profit is increasing so too can the credit loss factor, within reason and gaap. and all of it is hedged, unless the operatives are substandard. thus despite credit losses and evaporation, the fact is that credit is increasing at a very rapid rate and that price softness is being "used up". there is a certain elasticity or delay in these things which, when once exceeded, results in an inflationary reversal. bobby rubin's smug reassurances on the sunday am tv liberal hour do not impress me that the credit/inflation cycle has been repealed. as D.A. says, the disinflationary assumptions built into the stat cycle are bogus,and i can hear D.A.'s cat pissing at every stage of the consumer price chain from four rooms down the hall.

My what one misses being away for a weekend.
THOSANDNEER your post20:18;all I can say :dream on!
Ted;glad you are back.my doughter was in Cape Breton and she says its a beautyful place,so now I can believe you like it at the end of the world.
My comment about the EMU;If this baby is ever born and is born alive, it will be very sick and I don't believe the parents will have the staminia to nurse it through to adulthood. ( just my opinion based on the knowlegde of the european mentality )
Another thought about the CB's selling their gold,which I can't grasp.They are selling their gold to get a better return on their money?The interest is the lowest it has been and they sell it because they want to make a better return?Would it not have made more sense to sell it when the interest rate was 12% or higher?Sorry fellows,this simple fellow cannot buy this argument!
And another argument;inflation or deflation.We all know or should know,to govern ( and to pay back old debt ) can only be done successfully by INFLATION-keep that in mind - always!
And Tort,keep up your good work, cheering up the crowds here.
Oh ja,Mooney and John I hope you guys make me rich someday.
Cheerio,all.

Cherokee: ( Spit!

Whoa, call off the attack dogs. Son, grab a beer ( that is if you're of legal drinking age ) , take a few deep breaths and chill out!

This site is extremely worthwhile as a place for the intelligent exchange of ideas and debates. If you don't want to be viewed as just another hepcat, then follow the lead of the many distinguished contributers who can agree or disagree without mounting personal attacks. Notice how guys like RJ, George Cole, etc., conduct themselves. They don't always agree and they're not into personal attacks. The last thing we need is another self-appointed critic such as yourself to tell us who we should or shouldn't be listening to.

down 4 to 324, what happened? Well Ted there may be some time yet to get some more gold shares

I apologise in advance if anyone finds this offensive.

Three cowboys are sitting around a campfire, out on the lonesome prairie, each with the bravado for which cowboys are famous - so a night of tall tales begins.

The first says "I must be the meanest, toughest cowpoke there is. Cos just the other day, a bull got loose and gored six men before I wrestled it to the ground by the horns, with my bare hands, all the time whistling Dixie."

The second can't stand to be bested. "Why that's nothin. I was amblin along jus yesterday and a 15 foot rattler slid out and made a move on me, reared up hissin and rattlin. So I just grabbed that snake and bit his head off, and sucked the poison down like it was a shot of whiskey. And I'm here today, the toughest bastard you ever did see."

The third cowboy remained silent, slowly stirring the coals with his penis.

Bas, That third cowpoke must be a gold bug! :- )

EBN gold down $1.10

D.A. You just don't understand modern home construction. Just look at how those homes in Homestead Florida stood up to hurricane Andrew. If they had used all that heavy stuff in their construction, a lot of people might have gotten hurt. I'd rather be hit by a hollow core door any day as opposed to one of those solid oak jobs.

Sister golden Hair surprise
Still a reminance in everyones mind
Today you'll find
Gold is still on everyones Mind!!!

I think I blew a bearing!!!

What's a bearing made out of??

Leaner,what bearing a you talking about?There are bearings made of steel or bronze or rubis.If you are talking about loosing your bearing, maybe a shrink would know what those bearings are made of. ( lost mine a long time ago )

Leaner,what bearing a you talking about?There are bearings made of steel or bronze or rubis.If you are talking about loosing your bearing, maybe a shrink would know what those bearings are made of. ( lost mine a long time ago )

The insomniac awakens. It's dinner time!!! I don't like what's coming, but I must admit a fully fledged currency collapse is quite exciting really. Yes, I am a masochist. Particularly if you don't have any cash & you don't have any debt.
CHEROKEE: I'm not convinced that gold has fully bottomed yet. I am probably totally wrong, but I reckon that gold still has a good chance of hitting 300. I was saying this to a Gold Mining manager this afternoon. He is the executor of his now deceased Brother in Law's will. ( The one I referred to the other day who died tragically in the mine accident ) . He looked me in the eye in a very piercing fashion. His body language said he didn't to believe me, but his eyes said that he feared I was right. I hope I am wrong.

Looks like general equities are off to a rough start this week.

Australia seen becoming post-EMU "safe haven"
PANDA: They mentioned Aussie investors turning towards Australian Corporate Debt. I have been looking at the County Nat West Enhanced Cash Fund lately. It invests in all sorts of things, including well hedged secondary profitable Corporate Debt ( in large companies ) . Cash Management Rates are around 4.5 to 5% currently, but the County Fund returned 11.5% return this year. We are using direct first mortgages for larger clients, returning around 9.5% pa average ( fixed for three years ) . We were getting 11% 6 months ago. 2nd mortgages were 12 to 14%. Not had eh??!!! Our LVR's are fairly conservative. We figure if the banks crash, & the economy tanks into a huge depression, our client still has security over a property, regardless of what it is worth. Sell it in future decades if they have to. That is better than getting back 10c in the dollar in a huge derivative driven banking collapse. What we really need is for Bank shares to collapse. That will drive a stake through the hearts of the share investors with nerves of steel ( at the moment ) . It is amazing how shaky people were only 3 years ago. All forgotten!!!

6PAK: Whenever you speak to our Australian members of Parliament, they scoff & scorn "you can't create credit", "that is fairy tale stuff". That unfortunately, is why we are in such a big mess. OF COURSE credit & money is brought into & out of circulation. Fiat money is our undoing. The pollies are either naive or blatant deceptive liars. Remember, where the money is, the power follows.

DONALD: Your post "On March 1, 1933, in his last act as President, Herbert Hoover signed an amended bankruptcy act into law. This law extended the time for payments and prevented creditors from reclaiming property of individuals, not corporations" is fascinating. Last November, the Federal Govt in Australia brought in new a Credit Act that allows home owners ( only ) to default on their home mortgages due to hardship etc, for an extended period of time. Then they can resume payment ( ie. Debt moratorium ) . Hence we moved out of doing 1st mortgages in that end of the market ( which is HIGHLY competitive now ) . Kitco is worth studying. You learn something every day. Keep it up mate!!

South African gold producer news, gold is at unsustainably low price levels;
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/07/21/egmvy_gnc_1.html

Most world equity markets generally DOWN with Taiwan a notable exception as it hit a 7 year high.....Europe down BIG...EBN Gold down .50

Mike Sheller re: 21:11 Good Morning I will get back to you in a few days slavery calls.I had 10 bears I mean beers.Happy Trails.

Ali ( 1:09 ) Cape Breton IS a beautiful place and where I really wanted to live here ( Meat Cove ) really is at the end of the earth...Cherokee ( 23:30 ) Thanks for the job!

Tort:WAKE UP!.....Am off ta read The Urinal....

regular contributor---

yes, i recognize your handle----
so, what's your point? ( thanks earl! )

sept. beans limit move down------yes!!!!!!!!!

consider ALL things ( motive, motive, motive, of granville )
and then make an intelligent, thoughtful reply!

Cherokee:What do you want me to do today...shuffle some papers...type some letters....screen your calls.....take dictation....fire off some nasty missives....I love this job!...but I want a damn raise! even if there ain't no inflation....

Cherokee--Looks to my eye like a 1-2-3 botton may be fixin in sept beans.
I am not sure what inspired your position, but I'm happy to be flat at this juncture.

Article in Wall Street Urinal commodity section on Inflation-Deflation scenario...if anyone wants it I'll send it to ya....S+P futures down BIG!

Morning Ted, anything good in the urinal this morning? As Ted would say I'm suffering from taco belt this morning. Yes, Panda, I'm finding those bread making machines to be from the dark side of fitness. Looks like my soybeans are getting crushed into tofu this morning. My wheat is being reshaped into cracked wheat cereal and as for my metals, there just mght be some glint other than in my eye. Here's the little holliday story.

A man goes to his dentist because he feels something wrong in his
mouth. The dentist examines him and says, "that new upper plate I
put in for you six months ago is eroding. What have you been
eating?" The man replies, "All I can think of is that about four months
ago my wife made some asparagus and put some stuff on it that was
delicious...Hollandaise sauce. I loved it so much I now put it on
everything --- meat, toast, fish, vegetables, everything." "Well," says
the dentist, "that's probably the problem. Hollandaise sauce is made
with lots of lemon juice, which is highly corrosive. It's eaten away
your upper plate. I'll make you a new plate, and this time use
chrome." "Why chrome?" asks the patient. The dentist replies, "It's
simple. Everyone knows that there's no plate like chrome for the
Hollandaise!"

Ted, ship that article on over at your leisure. I'd like to read it. Well, I'm off to the spa to lose this New Mexico taco belt.

Ted--I would like to see the commodities article. Thanks in advance.

Rumors began circulating in the Treasury market late Thursday renowned investor George Soros had sold bonds and 2-year
notes as well as 30-year bonds, possibly with the intention of moving into gold. A spokesman for Soros Management contacted
by Bridge News declined comment on the talk it had sold up to $800 million in US Treasuries. "We can't confirm or deny it,"
the representative said.
http://www.cnnfn.com/news/knight_ridder/2270.1.html

European markets all tanking! Looks like an interesting day on Wall Street...Something to lighten your morning.

It seems there was a hermit that lived on a deserted island off the coast
of Maine...just he and a group of terns...One evening, while trying to get a good night's sleep, the hermit was awakened by the clatter of the nearby
nesting terns. So provoked, the hermit got up..grabbed a fistful of stones and started pelting the terns with every rock available...that succeeded
in quieting the birds. However, as fate would have it, the terns got their revenge. As the hermit lay asleep..the terns returned with vengeance..
killing the hermit with their pointed beaks. The moral of the story:

Never leave a tern unstoned... Or, if you wish: One good tern deserves
another.

ted,
check your mail box...ting ting....!looks liked bull run out of steam?
...let see to nite...oh...sorry to day!
save trade......good nite....

WDL -- But Rubin promised that the markets would be O.K. yesterday! :- ) )

NDX recovered last night only to start diving again this A.M.

Review of "Total Collapse' by Steve Puetz


Book Review: Total Collapse

Overall rating: *** ( out of five stars )

[ Book cover: A lighter setting a stock certificate on fire. ]

Author Steve Puetz' ( pronounced "pitts" ) new book which predicts a
financial meltdown in the near future completes a trimuvirate of
apocalyptic texts that include James Davidson and William Rees-Mogg's
"The Great Reckoning" and Robert Prechter's "At the Crest of the Tidal
Wave." Unlike Davidson and Rees-Mogg's work which had a heavy emphasis
on social issues or Prechter's fascination with the Elliot Wave theory,
Puetz' book is concisely focused on the consequences of a fiat money
system ( paper currency made legal tender by law and not back by gold or
silver ) .

In seventeen chapters, Puetz presents his view that our government's
policy of fiat money has created the current financial mania that will
end with a "Total Collapse." The author's writing style is easy to read
and numerous simple ( but clear ) charts are supplied to support his
main points. Archaic terminology is avoided and readers without a
background in finance will not get lost or bored with the book's content.

The author's conclusions are very similar to the other financial
Armageddon books and he foresees the following possibilities:

. The Dow crashing to below 500 within the next few years.

. A deflationary depression as the decades old fiat money system
implodes.

. Unemployment reaching levels of 25% or more.

. Home prices collapsing 70% to 95%.

. Government guarantees such as welfare and Social Security will end
or be severely curtailed.

. Increasing crime and social chaos.

Oddly enough, my main criticism with this book is that the author did not
go into much detail on how the reader can protect themselves other than
turn all of their assets into gold or silver. Puetz makes a pitch for his
newsletter, but I never got the idea that there would be any safety in a
"Total Collapse" even if you had large quantities of gold and silver
coins. For example, where would you keep it and how would you protect
it? In reading the last couple of chapters of the book, I felt that
there needed to be a few chapters to describe the aftermath of a "Total
Collapse."

Despite these reservations, I recommend the book as an alternative to
the more involved "The Great Reckoning" and "At the Crest of the Tidal
Wave." The book is very current ( it has a reference to Greenspan's
"irrational exuberance" speech ) and is loaded with anecdotes abouts manias
past and present. Even if you do not subscribe to the idea of a financial
"Rapture," the concepts that Puetz presents are certainly worth
consideration.

For more information on the book contact bpuetz@holli.com

Despite a fall-off in June imports, year-on-year comparisons showed robust growth in the emirate's appetite for gold.
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/07/21/z0009_15.html

Comex report: Gold down .70, Silver up 3.5 cents, Platinum up .70, Palladium up 6.15......S+P futures down 2.60...German Dax down 2.5%....
Long bond down 7 ticks...Old bell-weather "Big Blue" reports its earnings after the closing bell with the consensus est @ 1.42....World waits with baited breath for two days of Greasepan's ramblings that unfortunately start tomorrow...

Hong Kong interest rates surged to a two-month high,
http://www.bloomberg.com/bbn/topten.html

HI JIN! Just got your missive and will read NOW....The stock market will open lower but it's a beautiful day on the ocean...I see your market had a good Monday....S+P futures down 2.50....Happy trading!

A question from the PeanutGallery. I would be very interested if anyone could debunk the following: A was talking to a friend about "financial collapse" and other related subjects, and my friend who fancies himself quite knowledgeable asked me what could possibly cause a collapse ( then he stared at me, motionless, with his mouth open waiting for my answer - it was funny because I could count his filling and see the partially chewed sweet and sour shrimp of which we were partaking ) . Of course I said, "Debt!" ( loudly as if it were a powerful incantation ) . And he sez - "Hey, all them folks talking about US government debt are all wrong, don't listen to them. What? They said the government owes 15 trillion dollars and will never pay it off? That is a laugh! The US government not only has the power to tax it has approximately 57 trillion dollars in assets! If push ever came to shove these assets could be sold to pay the ENTIRE debt - or whatever portion was required to bring the crisis under control. So, listen Little Buddy, don't you be worrying about debt - it is a red herring!"

Now my friend could not point me to a source for his 57 trillion dollar figure...is it true? How to find out US government total assets? Is his argument valid at all?

Thanks Kitco Ginesseses!

A question from the PeanutGallery. I would be very interested if anyone could debunk the following: I was talking to a friend about "financial collapse" and other related subjects, and my friend who fancies himself quite knowledgeable asked me what could possibly cause a collapse ( then he stared at me, motionless, with his mouth open waiting for my answer - it was funny because I could count his fillings and see the partially chewed sweet and sour shrimp of which we were partaking ) . Of course I said, "Debt!" ( loudly as if it were a powerful incantation ) . And he sez - "Hey, all them folks talking about US government debt are all wrong, don't listen to them. ( What!? ) They say the government owes 15 trillion dollars and will never pay it off? That is a laugh! The US government not only has the power to tax it has approximately 57 trillion dollars in assets! If push ever came to shove these assets could be sold to pay the ENTIRE debt - or whatever portion was required to bring the crisis under control. So, listen Little Buddy, don't you be worrying about debt - it is a red herring!"

Now my friend could not point me to a source for his 57 trillion dollar figure...is it true? How to find out US government total assets? Is his argument valid at all?

Thanks Kitco Ginesseses!

Geff: You should have something in your mailbox....

Cherokee, been short corn since thursday.
Kev

Tort: Your Urinal sir.....

S+P futures now only down .60

All:

Just caught up with the morning reading. Much inspired prose last night. More inspiring than Irabu. Off to the big city.

EARL: HOW'S THAT OLE HANGOVER!!! shhhhhhhhh.

IDT: Thanks for the lesson in modern construction theory.

Donald: Sorry to point this out but M growth is actually accelerating. Perhaps you can get me with the next derivative.

Cherokee, ya got mail.

D.A. what say you this AM

Earl, hows yer' head this mornin'?

S+P futures UP .25

George Cole- Thanks for the Puetz book review. I have been following his letters on Gold Eagle. I too find his work somewhat lacking. For example, what makes him think the government will not revert to their old ways and "fix" the price of gold or outlaw private ownership altogether. Is a default plan presented to adress these possablities?

Comex down 2.10 and Silver up 1.5 cents...

Pa is up almost limit again this morning...up 4.15 last look!! Guess those Russian 1942 lend-lease trucks have not installed that karborator yet, huh?? Wonder what's really happening??

That's comex GOLD down 2.10!

I agree with the "no threads" contingent. IMHO, Bart is right on the money with his "strategic plan" for the Kitco site. The "obnoxious" factor is very small around here. Especially compared to some newsgroup sites that I've seen!

Also, I believe anyone on an .edu site is there because of free bandwidth. That will catch up with them sooner or later as this is cannot be the only site they are wasting bandwidth on.

S+P futures up 1.0

There is an uncanny similarity between the DOW from January 1920 to April 1930 AND TODAYS DOW track record. Avoid reading this study at your own peril - GUEST GURU URE:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest.html

This ought to make all the doomsdayers happy....

Machf15

To the woods.....Comex Gold down 2.20....Dow down 13....S+P down 2.02...
BBL dudes!

Two points need to be considered. The first is that gold is at historically low prices in terms of US$ and inflation is at historically low levels. If you buy US Treasury inflation adjusted debt you risk a decline in the value of the US dollar ( your treasury investment ) in relation to gold price. The second issue is taxation. The sale of gold is considered a capital gain while the receipt of interest is considered regular income. Notwithstanding the short-term ( under 1 yr., less favourable ) or long-term holding periods ( over 1 yr., more tax advantageous ) issue in US tax, capital gains are generally taxed at lower
rates than income.

Insummary, the risk of owning inflation adjusted treasury debt in periods of low inflation and low gold prices is that you could lose the principal value of your debt investment in relation to gold if the latter price increases while interest rates remain low. Prospectively, tax benefits on the realization of a capital gain is better than earning a 'safer' return from interest income on debt instruments.

Cheers

To all-
RJ inspired me -


A brief summary of the new DDeep Arrangement follows.
If one thinks gold will go up, I think DDeep is the
best play in town. Ive compared with Harmony and
( for laughs ) Barrick

------------------ Deep ----- Harmony--- Barrick
Shares,mill--------- 37 --------- 42 -----------373
Price, $ -----------2.25----------4.8-----------20??
Market Cap MM$-- 83----------- 204-----------7460
Reserves MM oz ---17.5----------- 27.1---------- 51
$/oz reserves -----4.7------------ 7.5 --------- 146
Capacity thou oz --687------------ 645--------- 3060
$/oz capacity ----121------------- 316--------- 2400
Earnings $/share- 0.36-------------0.59--------- 0.4
P/e Ratio--------- 6.2-------------12.7--------- 50.0
cost $/oz---- 313 --------------331--------- 197 ??

MACHf15: Excellent comparison. However, top chart has the wrong years - should be 27-29.

Marchf15: A log chart would beter represent the rate of change instead of the amount of change. Ditto Student's comment.

Bob/Student,
You are both right. I stole that chart from Barron's this morning.

Mach

Bob,
Do you know of a log chart that shows the info you re: to?

Mach

Astrological Investor interviews expert energy & mining industry entrepreneur/astrologer, who foresees Precious Metals Bull, but Wall Street Bear. SEE Astrological Investor:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest.html

Between RJs urinations and Hepcats evaginations perhaps we need a lady's touch. I read with amusement and am sorry the bull seems to be getting a little lame now. I'm ever so glad Soros Management have upgraded their comments from 'Refused to comment' to 'We can neither confirm nor denigh'......reminds me a little of the standard answer visiting US warships give to local greenies when asked if carrying they are carrying nuclear weapons. As for Steve Peutz new book - is this trying to provide a little optimism so desperately needed or is disaster better at selling books?

Monday July 21 9:46 AM EDT

NY precious metals mixed early, gold slips, PGM up

NEW YORK, July 21 ( Reuter ) - COMEX and NYMEX precious metals futures were mixed early Monday, with gold
lower but platinum group metals ( PGMs ) higher, as the complex consolidated after a sharp recovery late last week.

``The fund buying in gold has abated this morning, but it may be that the major player late last week is waiting for
certain levels to be reached before buying again,'' one COMEX floor broker said.

COMEX August gold was down $2.30 at $327.30 after the first hour of trade, following a run up to 11 day highs at
$330.90 Friday.

The August/December spread was back to around $3.60 early, after widening out to around $4.00 an ounce Friday.

The latest CFTC Commitments of Traders data, released late Friday, showed funds held record net short positions of
74,588 COMEX gold contracts as of July 15.

COMEX gold open interest saw its highest level in 18 months last week at 222,069 contracts, before a bout of heavy
short covering by funds Thursday and Friday last week.

In the bullion market, spot gold was quoted around $326.60/10 early, compared to the London Monday morning fix at
$328.05, the highest fix since July 3, after gold close around $328.70/20 in New York close Friday.

Gold fixed at a 12 year low early this month at $315.75 in London, in the wake of news of a sale of 167 tonnes of gold
by the Reserve Bank of Australia ( RBA ) , which encouraged massive amounts of extra short selling by hedge funds,
analysts said.

Implied lease rates for gold eased further to around 2.08 percent for one month Monday, from a six month high around
2.60 percent last week, suggesting hedge fund borrowing demand is continuing to ease, traders said.

COMEX September silver was up 1.0 cent at $4.280 an ounce, recovering from a breakdown to contract lows last
week at $414.50.

NYMEX October platinum was up $1.70 at $401.00, after climbing back over $400.00 Friday, for the first time in
two weeks.

NYMEX September palladium was up $4.65 at $171.00.

Russian shipments of palladium to Japan resumed last week, with the arrival of three tonnes of palladium at Narita
Airport in Tokyo, but no platinum arrivals have yet been reported, with Russian officials saying packaging problems are
delaying the shipments.

Meanwhile, sponge palladium lease rates for one month jumped back over 100 pct early Monday, with Zurich delivery
one month palladium around 70 percent, and one month platinum around 40 pct, refining sources said.

No Russian spot market deals have yet been done either, traders said.

``The problem is the Russians want payment up front, but cannot guarantee normal two day delivery for spot
transactions,'' one refining source said.

Monday July 21 9:46 AM EDT

NY precious metals mixed early, gold slips, PGM up

NEW YORK, July 21 ( Reuter ) - COMEX and NYMEX precious metals futures were mixed early Monday, with gold
lower but platinum group metals ( PGMs ) higher, as the complex consolidated after a sharp recovery late last week.

``The fund buying in gold has abated this morning, but it may be that the major player late last week is waiting for
certain levels to be reached before buying again,'' one COMEX floor broker said.

COMEX August gold was down $2.30 at $327.30 after the first hour of trade, following a run up to 11 day highs at
$330.90 Friday.

The August/December spread was back to around $3.60 early, after widening out to around $4.00 an ounce Friday.

The latest CFTC Commitments of Traders data, released late Friday, showed funds held record net short positions of
74,588 COMEX gold contracts as of July 15.

COMEX gold open interest saw its highest level in 18 months last week at 222,069 contracts, before a bout of heavy
short covering by funds Thursday and Friday last week.

In the bullion market, spot gold was quoted around $326.60/10 early, compared to the London Monday morning fix at
$328.05, the highest fix since July 3, after gold close around $328.70/20 in New York close Friday.

Gold fixed at a 12 year low early this month at $315.75 in London, in the wake of news of a sale of 167 tonnes of gold
by the Reserve Bank of Australia ( RBA ) , which encouraged massive amounts of extra short selling by hedge funds,
analysts said.

Implied lease rates for gold eased further to around 2.08 percent for one month Monday, from a six month high around
2.60 percent last week, suggesting hedge fund borrowing demand is continuing to ease, traders said.

COMEX September silver was up 1.0 cent at $4.280 an ounce, recovering from a breakdown to contract lows last
week at $414.50.

NYMEX October platinum was up $1.70 at $401.00, after climbing back over $400.00 Friday, for the first time in
two weeks.

NYMEX September palladium was up $4.65 at $171.00.

Russian shipments of palladium to Japan resumed last week, with the arrival of three tonnes of palladium at Narita
Airport in Tokyo, but no platinum arrivals have yet been reported, with Russian officials saying packaging problems are
delaying the shipments.

Meanwhile, sponge palladium lease rates for one month jumped back over 100 pct early Monday, with Zurich delivery
one month palladium around 70 percent, and one month platinum around 40 pct, refining sources said.

No Russian spot market deals have yet been done either, traders said.

``The problem is the Russians want payment up front, but cannot guarantee normal two day delivery for spot
transactions,'' one refining source said.

RJ

Your 00:43

http://www.gpgi.com/update.htm

Can someone point out the working mechanisms of the LME and also if there is a perticipant from India please write to me.

Cueball:

Closer and closer to what?

I took your advice a few months back and called the company's P.R. man. Leaving aside the questions of whether or not there actually exist any precious metals in the dirt, I found it odd that the company after working so hard and being 'moments' away from commercial production could not provide cost estimates for recovery. With all due respect, this is a joke.

With regards to its brethren company IPM, I took the advice of some of its supporters and emailed the company a list of questions which I thought would shed some light on the situation. Oddly enough someone with whom we share office space was considering buying the stock and asked me for an opinion. This was towards middle, late May. Just my luck, they sent me back a message saying that they were too busy to respond. Seems like the I.R. people must be helping with the metallurgy.

MoreGold:

What do suppose is behind the 'want payment up front but can't promise delivery in two days' problem?

Maybe they are long Sept Palladium and would like to sell spot and deliver in two months. Very clever these Russians.

Earl:

Just to catch up a bit....

Last night, Ted said to make sure you have something to eat while drinking and here you go and start talking about catching "flies" at the dining table. I don't think that's what he meant! #2 ... With a combination of BEER, Yukon Jack and BEANS, no wonder it was a "Painful" experience! My guess is that the combination worked quite well at keep the bugs away though! They need fresh air as I recall. Anyways, if you're reading this, you survived last night, so not to worry too much. Just make sure you open a window a bit eh!

TTFN

Here is what is behind the Pa/Pl up by limit ( Pa ) and almost limit today. "NYMEX September palladium was up $4.65 at $171.00.

Russian shipments of palladium to Japan resumed last week, with the arrival of three tonnes of
palladium at Narita
Airport in Tokyo, but no platinum arrivals have yet been reported, with Russian officials
saying packaging problems are
delaying the shipments.

Meanwhile, sponge palladium lease rates for one month jumped back over 100 pct early
Monday, with Zurich delivery
one month palladium around 70 percent, and one month platinum around 40 pct, refining
sources said.

No Russian spot market deals have yet been done either, traders said.

Can't trust those 1942 lend-lease trucks to make a 2 day delivery!!

Bill

Hey TED.....Send me the article from the urinal...THANKS.....

If you have the numbers a log chart could be crunched on a spreadsheet and then a chart can be derived.

International Analyst, James Dines Rule of Gold Countertrend says: The price of gold tends to move generally opposite to the rest of the stock market. See July 21, 1997 Study at:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/dines721.html

George Cole: Thanks for the review of Steve Puetz''s "TOTAL COLLAPSE. " That was a kind service to us all. MARY ROSE: Welcome. I predict you'll fit right in!

To clear up any confusion, that review of the Puetz book was not mine. It was copied from the Fiend's Superbear Page.

http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/fiendbea/

To All-
Ah am zo appy to zee zat my competition in zee gold
from zee dirt race is so totally ow you zay scrweed up.
Zese poor peuple jus do not ave zee technologie by dam.
Ahm usING zee WOP ( wizard of pyranees ) process and zee
dirt containing zee beautifull metaux MUST be infecTED
with zee zherms. In mah previous report to my dear
shareholDERS I had to advise of zee problems with zee
dreaded black plague zherms which while giVING zee good
result on zee yield of the metaux, sadly killed many of
mah dear emplyees and some ozair peuple in zat village.
Eet mak ne so sad about the peuple because we are a
"peuple company" but one good result was it reduce zee
head count pretty fast by dam. Also we manage to get
away from zee village tout suite and we do not lose so
much equiptment eizair. Beezness eez beezness.
Ah am now appy to report we are using new improved
zherms in zee process - Zee catalyst ees zee "english
pox" zherm and it seems to work not zo bad. We have a
beeg sample and we want to sheep eet somewhere or
ozair for zee testing but nobody want to touch eet.
Anyway ahm sure we weel have some results soon and Ah
also believe zees report to zee shareholders ees at least
as good as the one from zee so called "Global" company.

TED BUTLER'S incisive and insightful analysis "TWO DOWN, AND TWO TO GO" provides interesting scenarios & MEANING of PLATINUM & PALLADIUM as leading indicators. SEE Guest Guru:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/butler607.html

Another possible ( although very unlikely ) trigger for a stock bear -- a SERIOUS move in Washington to limit the influence of big money in politics. Make no mistake -- the total domination of both parties by big money has been a key force driving this bull.


But a serious move to reform campaign financing is much more likely after a market crash than before.

Earl & Vieserre Thank you for your comments. I have provided the
posts, as my minuscule contribution, to a site of considerable
and valuable information.

History is the recital of facts represented as true. Fable, on the other
hand, is the recital of facts represented as fiction....Voltaire, 1764

Government securities, which created vast sums of new money, intensified
the stock market speculation and made the stock market crash and
resultant depression ( 1930's ) a national disaster.

The problem was to get some money back into circulation. So much of the
money normally used to pay rent and food bills had been sucked into
Wall Street that there was no money to carry on the business of *LIVING,*
In many areas, people printed their own money on *WOOD* and *PAPER* for
use in their communities, and this money was *GOOD*, since it represented
*OBLIGATIONS* to each other which people *FULFILLED*

( July 1997, Canada )

http://www.canoe.ca/Chatelaine/barter.html

http://www.canoe.ca/Chatelaine/barterya.html

Soooo, is deflation-recession-inflation-stagflation what is the take ????
I suggest it is deflation, and gaining in strength,it isn't going to
provide a wonderful life, but, it is necessary to clear the decks.

Woke up this AM and it seemed so clear - a major economic depression settling over the land. Then this - an hour of silence at Kitco. Eerie, indeed.

I need a string of symbols to enter into Yahoo to get major maket quotes. Thanks.

D.A.

First you use "liar". and now "joke". It is your Due Diligence
that I suggest is a JOKE.

I have been posting on this Internet for over five years and have never
promoted or hyped a investment for unscrupulous gains.

This forum is about investment discussions & investing. My prescious
metals investments have more than doubled in the last year, and I'm
not talking 4 or 5 figures. Even you wouldn't call that a joke.

I suspect you may have another motive, and so be it, but don't come on here saying you did your diligence on GPGI.

David, can you assure me that Pa/Pd shipments will be met? NO, and
in spite of J Disneys' welcomed comments on S/A, my contacts are not as
positive on their problems.


Are you doubting Peter Fisher's ( INCO report ) qualifications
http://www.novawest.com/IH01057.HTM

Were you aware of Mr. Hays credentials

Martyn Hay

Author's credentials

Martyn Hay has a Bachelor of Science honours degree from the University of Leeds, is a
registered Professional Engineer in South Africa and has twenty years experience in extractrive
metallurgy including consulting, plant operation, research and development, process design, project
management and commissioning covering tin, base metals, gold, uranium, sulfuric acid, chromite,
coal and platinum group metals. He has worked for a number of large Mining Houses in South
Africa including Lonrho as Consulting Metallurgist responsible for the technical operation of the
companys platinum operations.

At Lonrho responsibilities included developing technology partnerships, directing research and
development, maintaining technical standards and the quality and deployment of metallurgical staff
and assisting in strategic and corporate planning.

In recent years he has completed a number of feasibility studies including a Due Diligence
exercised on the processing capabilities of Lonrho and Impala Platinum as part of a merger option
between the two companies. Successes include a US$50 million improvement in productivity
through enhanced employee capability from the performance evaluation and subsequent
re-engineering of Lonrho's concentrators, and the award of a silver medal from the South African
Institute of Mining and Metallurgy.

Lastly, Three of the four significant principals in this company have a
combined 40+ years with GPGI, without sanctions, halts, etc. and a SEC
investigation that found no wrong doings, instigated because they made claims regarding PGMs. How would you like all your years of hard work
to be called a joke.

Try something like abx.to, gur.to etc., etc. Normally the symbol followed by .to

Latest on USSR precious whites:

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/07/21/y0023_z00_24.html

Bridge: major markets galore - enjoy:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/quotes/market_indices.html

I wonder if some of the major posters here could give us an idea
where they see gold heading over the next month, three months, and
six months. Just round numbers, but something a little more fleshed
out than "up" or "down".

6Pack- Your right on the mark, delfation is imminent for the very reason you have stated about all the money going intop one place, and I believe the drop in gold has been signalling this fact for quite awhile now, gold is a truthful indicator of inflation and deflation. I look for the price to drop much further before its over

This one from K2 sounds like, er??? Any opinions on it?
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/97/07/21/abx_mxam_1.html
Bernatz, will it make the dirt machine obsolete?

Yahoo/Reuters and other news media have been stating recently Russian production of PLATINUM ACCOUNTS FOR ABOUT 20% OF THE WORLD'S TOTAL. I DONT'T THINK SO! Per all my data sources it is closer to 10% of the worldwide total annual production. I believe the reasons for the erroneous figures ARE the following. Once an error hits the media, all news wires pick it up as gospel, and it isthus broadcasted far and wide. Moreover, I believe the media may be confusing mine production with sales of the the white metal.

A number of years ago the Russians were and continue to be the second largest seller of Platinum - behind the behemoth South African supplier of 80-85% of the world's platinum. Conceivably, the Russians may have approached 20% of total annual supplies a number of years ago. But a significant portion of this was coming form inventory. In recent years we all know that precious metals inventory of the Russians has totally been sold off. Furthermore, due to the political upheaval and subsequent miss-management of the Russian mining industry, both gold and platinum mine production have dwindled. Therefore, I believe today's platinum mine production accounts for only about 10% ( if that! ) of the world's total yearly production of the 'Rich Man's Gold.'

If anyone has a realiable data source stating to the contrary, I would be very happy to bring my files up to date.

Since the great bulk of platinum production still comes form South Africa, and the CIS is anything but stable ( politically, economically, monetarily, or any way you wish to cut it ) , it is my personal opinion that the relatively small capitaized STILLWATER MINING ( in Montana )
may welll be an excellent long-term investment. MOREOVER, IT IS REPORTED THAT THEIR PLATINUM RESERVES ARE HUMONGOUS

Gold Price In One Month = $335 +/- $5.00

Gold Price In Three Months = $355 = +/- $5.00

Gold Price In Six Months = $375 =/- $10.00

Stand fast troops,General Greenspam has a plan and a new secret weapon
to be unveiled tomarro.Har Har Har

Until the squelch function is in place, we still have to deal with people who
violate Kitco posting policy by immolation or shouting them down or whatever
was recommended to deal with other interlopers. Therefore:

PLEASE POST STOCK RECOMMENDATIONS ON KITCO 2, preferably
without leaning on the caps lock. Whether or not Russia has 5% or 25%
of the world's platinum supply has absolutely nothing to do with Stillwater
Mining, and your opinions about the stability of South Africa are just that.

Cueball: I have done some DD on Global Platinum and Gold. I spoke with the President and the principal technology consultant last year. I also reviewed the "INCO" report by Peter Fischer and followed-up with INCO on this report. The bottom line is that there is no doubt that GPGI can produce platinum and gold. The problem is that GPGI can not produce material quanitities of precious metals at economic costs. In other words, Barrick, Homestake, and Newmont aren't worried about GPGI's technology or claims. The issues surrounding the fire assay methods and how these conflict with the precious metal results that GPGI can prove is a moot point. GPGI can not produce precious metals in a "standard" varifiable "production" function ( that is, beyond a version of a Mom and Pop gold factory ) in sufficient quantities at economic cost. The market really does work most of the time and the market should be telling you something about this stock --- if you are willing to listen.

As far as credentials go, Peter Fischer is somewhere in hiding in Germany the last time I discussed his report with INCO. If INCO really believed that the GPGI properties identified in Peter Fischer's study had a chance in hell to turn-up sufficient anomalies to indicate PGM's they would have optioned the property for study. The geologic model is highly speculative and dose not conform to the macro model typical of Arizona geology.

In general, don't be fooled by geologist credentials. Geological consulting is a highly speculative field that is over-rated. Does the Bre-X salting saga ring a bell ? Do you remeber that some of the world's best geologists and mines analysts were supporting a geologic model in Busang that could not be supported by empirical evidence ? Think about it.

If is too good to be true it probably is not true. That is the case of GPGI. Any open-minded investor would come to similar conclusions.

Cheers

Did anyone notice the front page story on "invisible gold", The New Gold Rush, ( smack dab in the middle ) front page of USA Today??? What are they trying to do???

1. Promote Nevada gold mining

2. Confuse Kitcohabitants who see every headline in every mainstream
newspaper as a contra-indicator.

Bob M: When you consider gold loans, and commodity funds pushing the price to suit their desires, manipulation may be a few of the answers for the metals bad performance.
The over priced stock market plus predictions of a bright future is drawing in money that would otherwise go into the metals, this along with the strong currency/ weak currency phenominon pushes speculative monies in those directions and away from the metals.
Rumor of CB selling doesn't help either - along with the negative press that the metal are be given
Gold also follows no leader; and we have plenty of them against gold also.

Bob M: When you consider gold loans, and commodity funds
pushing the price to suit their desires, manipulation may
be a few of the answers for the metals bad performance.
The over priced stock market plus predictions of a bright
future is drawing in money that would otherwise go into
the metals, this along with the strong currency/ weak
currency phenominon pushes speculative monies in those
directions and away from the metals.
Rumor of CB selling doesn't help either - along with the
negative press that the metal are be given
Gold also follows no leader; and we have plenty of them
against gold also.

Cueball:

Wow, looks like I hit a raw nerve.

First off, I have not ever used the term 'liar' in any post on this or any other forum. I am certain I have never called you a liar or any other individual on this or any other forum the same. I have tried really hard to maintain a civil tone in all of my communications and to make no personal attacks regardless of whether or not they may be warranted. I will continue in this manner.

Anytime I disagree with a post or a premise I try real hard to post FACTS to refute claims. The only FACTS that I have at my disposal with regard to the DD companies are the conversations and email messages that I have received from the companies and their representitives and the various releases that from these companies. This is all I have posted.
My characterization of the company as a joke stems from the FACT that as relayed to me by a representitive of the company, that on the verge of commercial production they did not have a handle on what their costs of production were or were unwilling to represent them. I thought joke was a kind way to descibe this scenario.

With regards to your request for guaranteeing delivery of palladium, I have no idea what you are talking about. I do not recommend the purchase or sale of any security, commodity, currency or anything else on this forum. Anyone wishing to draw inferences from what I post and subsequently act upon them is free to do so but ENTIRELY at their OWN RISK.

BTW: Kitco II is the appropriate place for new releases about stocks.

Comex report: Gold down 3.40, Silver down 1.2 cents, Platinum up .70, and palladium up 4.95.....XAU down 2.80....Dow up 14....

Jcat:

I'm just guessing but I'll bet I get to see this post again somewhere in the future. Anyhow here goes. All prices Londom PM fix.

08/20/97 343.50
10/20/97 363.50
01/20/97 370.10

Explanation for this startling rally? I own it, I an optomist and I want it to go up. I hate losing and really enjoy winning.

My dreams for silver are so much grander that I shall not even commit them to electrons beyond the confines of my very own head.

"Big Blue's" earning's report due out within the hour....Dow up 16.49 but losers beat out winners by 2-1 on NYSE....

"Big Blue's" earnings @ 1.46 versus consensus estimate of 1.42....

Bob@15:11

Good post.

I have been trying to figure out GPGI for a while. I think that the principals of the company truly believe that they will be able to produce platinum group metals at an economically viable production cost. They have a dream and continue to pursue it. Of course, they are upbeat and overly optimistic about how close they are to viability. That seems to be the nature of the game for junior mining companies.

But even the report, that some consider proof that GPGI will make it, concludes that the chances for viability are less than 50-50 and at least 3 years away. And that is the way the market is reacting.

Maybe they will make it work. Good for them and GPGI investors if they do. I will be missing that train.

Bob Palermo

The DOW is up about 1600 since Greenspan detected and announced "irrational exuberance" Manipulation has its strange ways.

Jack: good reference re Maxam and continuous leaching. This might go well with the new SX/EW continuous process once it is commercialized. Very low cost production, certainly under $100/oz in the Nevada type oxide deposits with open pit mining. The cost of removing the tailings rocks from the leaching tanks may cost quite a bit - I intend to find out how they plan to do this. John Hepcat is right, although I am not sure he is referring to this - "buy Nevada gold mines"; but I would add "to operate them yourself."

"There were very heavy rollovers," said George Gero of Prudential Securities. "You've got 100,000 contracts that need to be
rolled over in the next week. If you're long Aug gold, you've got to get out of those positions. If you're short, you're better off,
since the market isn't running away from you."
http://www.cnnfn.com/news/knight_ridder/2333.1.html

``Physical buying may remain low this month but will pick up in August ahead of Hindu festivals,'' he said. The four-month
Hindu festival season which begins next month is expected to generate demand for gold.
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/07/21/z0009_23.html

More on Japanese banking problems.

http://www.nikkei.co.jp/enews/TNKS/page/ecoset.html

testing--

testing--

squelch-hep-rat

squelch-hep-rat

squelch-hep-rat

wunderball!!!!!!!!!!!

TORONTO, July 21 ( Reuter ) - Caledonia Mining Corp said on
Monday that it suspended production at its Barbrook mine in
South Africa due to low gold prices.
http://www.newsalert.com/free/story?StoryId=Cm9lEWb8ZtJiXntGXmZC1&FQ=gold&Query=gold

Indonesian currency zapped 5%

http://www.afr.com.au/content/970722/market/markets4.html

"We believe there is a distinct possibility that much of
this ( Russia's ) above ground supply has been depleted and that
the world now has to rely increasingly on mine production,
which for Russia may decline in 1997," Prudential's Morrison
said.
http://www.newsalert.com/free/story?StoryId=Cm9lEWb8ZtJiXndiZota4&FQ=gold&Query=gold

Japan has called for a triangular relationship with
the United States and China in response to Beijing's
attacks on its defence alliance with Washington.

Foreign Minister Yukihiko Ikeda doubted Chinese
proposals for a new Asian multilateral security
mechanism, designed to replace ties with
Washington.
http://www.scmp.com/news/template/templates.idc?artid=19970721003232043?=fp&template=Default.htx&maxfieldsize=2311

Currency crisis, bankruptcies, hurt Korean exports.

http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/kh0722/m0722b05.html

Maylasia blames George Soros for currency crisis.

http://www.jaring.my/~star/current/21ring7.html

Good call Mary Rose re: Soros. Good to have a lady grace our forum once
again. It has been getting a little rough lately, with certain posters talking about men's appendages drawing in the coal etc.

Nomcercy ( Mine Suspension ) : Caledonia mining corp suspended mining prices due to low prices, understandable, do you know how well they hedged future production? I will look at their 10-K & get back with their cash production cost/oz. Thought this would happen.

Thugs after Albanian valuables.

http://web.albaniannews.com/albaniannews/

24.24 ounces to buy the Dow tonight.

Eligible comex gold stocks fell 41,841 oz today to 305,057 oz indicating that someone is taking delivery! With open interest as of Friday at 213,898 contracts, there is only 1,43 oz of gold pledged for delivery for each 100 oz contract. Or to put it another way, there are 210,848 contracts for 21,084,800 ounces of gold ( that 21 MILLION oz = two years US production ) for which there is NO gold promised for delivery!!!! ( You guys know that eventually I'm going to be right! )

Time for a movie....think we'll try BAJA....

But before I go...EBN Gold up a dime!

Dr. Geoffrey P.Miller, Professor of Law and Director, Center for Study of Central Banks, New York University Law School - presents erudite and comprehensive study. Section - II:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials.html

You make vun ven KGB use 1942 Lend Lease Dodge truk vit bad karburator.
You take lease Lend Lease Gold an Zell it, so price go down.
Least KGB honest.

I have a question for anyone in the gold mining industry. I am long on gold metal and gold stocks. I have about 10 times more in gold stocks than metal. I am starting to wonder if being in the metal might be better. With the future commitments to sell new production at a fixed price, it seems that your profit potential has been sold out for the sake of stability. Is this the wrong perspective?

There is an uncanny similarity between the DOW from January 1920 to April 1930 AND TODAYS DOW track record. Avoid reading this study at your own peril - GUEST GURU URE:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest.html

To all,
Anyone can tell me A.Greenfan going to have a speech to nite or when?
thanks...

Inflation?/Deflation?......Answer: Both...ALTERNATEING according to the
dictates of "THEY" in order to keep our consumer-led society from imploding
and our gov't debt from exploding....god forbid any exernal forces reek havoc in the
process.....Earl, really, Beer? Go back to the merlot...you were becoming very
mellow too...///Hey, hep-cat, why bother, get a girlfriend or start collecting
baseball cards.....

Arden - Is the COMEX the only source of deliverable gold to cover this open interest? Is the info you are posting available, and if so, could you post your source? It would be an interesting exercise to look at the same statistics for palladium when deliverable shortages drove the price through the roof, and to compare this with the status of gold today.

One other question for anyone ( pardon my ignorance ) : Surely the players must be aware of the situation arden is presenting. Somehow they must not consider this too abnormal. Is there no mechanism for this situation to correct itself if and when the demand for deliverables can no longer be met? If the only solution is that which palladium just went through, do the statistics indicate this will be comparable, more severe, or less severe ( severe being good, of course! ) . Thanks, in advance for your comments.

Tomorrow when Greenspan testifies it will be interesting to see if anyone on the committee brings up the "high dollar" and complains about the difficulty their business or agricultural constituents are having in remaining competitive.

Leave hepcat alone: he is harmless, and brings interesting points IMHO. Squelsh TED who brings nothing... I mean N.O.T.H.I.N.G. to this board. He should get a life himself. Who cares if he has a walk when "EBN is up a dime". Fascinating indeed, TED.
USA TODAY front page, lead article: THAT is fascinating.... why did they choose that? mmmmhhh! Things are heating up...
Sirocco

PASCAL You need to investigate the hedging policy of the company you are investing in. Many have a policy that allows them to take advantage of a rise in gold, others have a policy that allows them to participate with a rise to a certain ceiling ( ie some are at 450 to 500 ) , and others may have a fixed ceiling. And based on this hedging policy, you can make your decision as which companies to invest in when risk of a drop in the price of gold is high and which companies to switch into when the risk is reduced.

Bridge, re your Yahoo world market quotes.
Best way I've found is to go to http://my.yahoo.com and to create an account ( it's free ) which includes the world quotes section that is there automatically. It's just pick and chose but they have about 15~20 world markets on a 24hr 15min delayed basis. Just takes a bit of setup but well worth it. Hope that helps...

TTFN

Sirocco: Lighten up on Ted. He can't help it.....he was born that way. What's your excuse?

All:

This has nothing to do with gold but is too funny to pass up.

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/world/072197/world13_25344.html

Sirocco: "Sirocco"..... if memory serves correct the word means 'hot wind' or something like that. Doesn't it?

SWC hedges using "spot deferred forward sales commitments". They claim they have the option to defer delivery against spot deferred contracts and can sell at the market price if they choose. Is this generally the case with all hedging? If they can do this, what is the penalty? Why doesn't everyone do it?

" neither lender nor borrower be"

how were the money traders/lenders treated
in the book of books?

if soros and his ilk are the fuse that starts
the collapse of foreign ( or domestic ) currencies,
it would be prophetic justice.
imagine, speculators causing the demise of the
very system that has given them great wealth
and power. kind-of like riding on the back of the
tiger, they will end-up inside-her. the profits
made, will fade, along with the value of that
which they have won. to win, they ultimately
destroy.

there is but one place for gold and silver left
to go. to the moon, where they belong. their
intrinsic value is astronomical ( mike sheller )
and ever-increasing, as the earths' population
continues to grow. short-term? who cares---
the long-term with options is the ticket. time
is working against those who have taken, instead
of giving. have you given to the seller of options
lately? give today, and take tomorrow. be the ant,
not the cricket. there is a fell wind blowing over
the financial arena, with hard, cold times on the
way. are you ready to pay, for 7 years of irrational
exuberance? some-one has to pay!----consider---

"for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

the beauty of physics and life. try as they might, day will
continue to turn to night. man is just one spoke in the great
wheel of life. can you handle high rpm's when the wheel starts
to spin, as chaos and flux take over again?

cherokee!; ) en-route to the big generator ( yes ) in the sky........

Sirroco: What contribution have you made.

D.A.: If the broadcast was unable to soothe passions in the middle east, at least, for a moment, they were sublimated. ........ BTW, rumors of hangover and accompanying electolyte imbalance are greatly exaggerated. I was up at 5, out at 6. Drove 100 miles to the coast began work at 8. Had an x-ray machine deinstalled by 11:30 and was back in Puddle City by 2:30. All in time to get a software fix for the real time system .... But I think I will keep a low profile this evening.

I don't do mining stocks. I wade through enough BS as it is.

Cherokee: The first paragraph is an arrow straight to the heart of a possible paradox. At the same time, folks like G. Soros are well connected with sources and avenues available to them that are unavailable to those of us among the bootless and unhorsed. Still, it would make for an interesting evening, or more, if spent picking the mind of someone like him. Over a glass or two of sound wet goods. ..... Too bad it cannot be.

To all... Thank-you for the lower prices , will continue to by gold and sell U.S dollars. Watch the price now!!!!!!

DJ - yes there are other sources of deliverable gold. In fact there are 541,663 oz deposited in Comex warehouses right now. BUT, they do not have a contract written against them! It is very my like the Aussie CB selling its gold and then saying, well we can replendish it from the ground because we have all of these reserves. One little minor point THE AUSSIE CB DOESN'T OWN THE GOLD IN THE GROUND!!!!!! Just like the people who have shorted gold on comex do not have any gold on deposit to back them up ( at least 98.5 % of them don't! )

My source for the numbers is the daily news release from the Comex. It comes out about an hour or so after the gold market closes.

My whole point is that the people who have sold gold short have only paper to back them up. With the huge physical demand for the metal and the shortfall with mine production, gold prices have only one direction long term.

You may look at it in the long term. Governments have forced people to give up their gold in exchange for paper. Now the people are giving back the paper for the gold. Yes gold supply is relatively stable, but there is a whole hell of a lot more people now than the 1930's and they all have more paper.

sirocco---

you foaming at the mouth attack dog.
bark when told, and do not scold
that which you cannot comprehend!!!

I surely appreciate your posts; and feel sure the others feel simular.

DJ:

Your intuition is correct. Once one has sold their stuff forward it is sold. There is no deciding to then sell it at spot unless the forward is repurchased.

Following chart on Newmont Mining goes back to the 1970's. Forumla for short term confidence building: Take one flexible 8" ruler and apply to bottom of long term support line. URL is http://www.tscn.com/wsc/timespan.html?TSym=NEM?449,12

Sirocco, Ted's a fixture here and a damn fine friend to many of us. I'd rather read his short pithy entertaining stuff than a lot of psuedo intellectual drival which finds its way onto this forum. Leave him alone or the dogs of summer will be unleased on your sorry carcass. Cherokee, feel free to unlease the fluxomatic on this fellow.

Arden:

Your thoughts on the Aussie CB and their claim to gold in ground that isn't their's brings to mind another tidbit from the recent news. Both the U.S. and Germany are in the process of liquidating their strategic petroleum reserves. The implication being that there is no need for strategic reserves because there is no reason to worry about a supply disruption. Perhaps the G7 thinking is that in the event that something untoward happens in the Middle East, they will just walk on in, and turn on the pumps themselves. If I were an owner of crude supplies in the Biblical lands I would not take this policy change as a good omen. This is what is meant by the new world order.

BTW: There was an interesting article in the Financial Times a few days back which discussed the oil reserve disposals. Two numbers caught my eye. First, it costs the U.S. about $200 M per year to finance and maintain the reserve. During the last energy crisis in the 70's it was estimated that GDP was reduced by something on the order of 2-3% during the year of the embargo. If we were to have a similar event in todays world, 2-3% of GDP would be roughly $200 Billion. So in essence, our government is laying 1000 to 1 odds against there being a serious supply shortage. As I prepare to send these fools a large portion of my earnings for this last period, I can not help but marvel at the never ending supply of stupidity which seems to eminate from this quarter.

If they are at your fingertips could you be so kind as to post the Pa stock levels at the Comex. TIA.

D.A. Loved your Arab link!

If Kitco's 24hour graph was a heart monitor, I think we are all dead!

DJ: In a fixed forward sale, a fixed date is set for delivery with a fixed price based on the spot at the time the contract is entered into. In the spot deferred, the date of delivery is flexible. An advantage of the spot is that the producer can postpone delivery if it can get a higher market price for his current production. The advantage of a fixed contract is the producer may get a higher net return, based on the then current interest rate and lease rates.

perhaps
this is 'the lapse'
when the almighty dollar exhausts itself
perhaps
now is the hour
when "heaven" is abundant here
but not, perhaps, apparent

Wizzard: What kind of cr.p is that!

RJ:

Was that you sellin down the old bullion? Have ya loaded up big?

Note the absence of any reference to US currency in the following quote. "The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia ( about 2,200 kilometers ) in length, and as wide and high as it is long. He measured its wall and it was 144 cubits ( about 65 meters ) thick, by man's measurement, which the angel was using. The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. Revelation 21:15-18
The value of gold is eternal.

Savage: emailed 'em to you. Let me know if you find a better deal. Tx.

Ted, my rec: ignore this hot air balloon who has contributed nothing to this board to my knowledge. Let him diddle with hepcat.

D.A.- Thanks your response makes sense. It is curious that SWC would make this statement in their annual report. Is there no way they can achieve what they say? Even at some cost?

Arden - I'm too much of a novice ( and probably too simple ) to really understand the issues re: selling short something that doesn't exist. When you sell short, isn't it borrowed from somewhere? Don't you ( or your brokerage ) get paid for it ( so RJ can pay interest on the proceeds ) ? How can you get paid for something that doesn't exist? I really apologize for my ignorance of these things. I hope someone takes pity on me and can explain this in simple terms.

dear Scott,
the answer to your question
is in your question.....
perhaps

JIN: Mr. Fed Head ( Greenspan ) testifies before Congress tomorrow and probably Wednesday also. Should start about 9:00 AM EST in the US

Wizard: I'm glad you understood the question.

Ted, minor missle meandering coastward from the Taco Belt.

I have been investing in steel companies over the last year. All are doing very well in the last 12 months, but you don't hear anyone talking about it. When steel is doing good, isn't that usually the sign of a strong economy? Me thinks Greenspan isn't watching the right indicators or either he has a different agenda than inflation. Keep watching the steel companies, inflation can't be far behind their bullish performance ( and gold won't be far behind either ) .

Comments from the more informed?

Machf15

I guess the majority of Kitcoites did not think too much of today's USA Today article... ( since not too many replied to my earlier query ) . I think something's afoot that most of us haven't thought of...the question is...what??

Today is so boring. Come on gold, go up, go down, do anything.....

Another Thought: If gold didn't exist; nor silver; what would be the preeminent investment alternative???...during deflation; inflation ; pre crash; post crash...???

With folk here quoting astrology and Mike Sheller predicting a correction of the Dow to 5150 beginning July 28, I may as well throw in my 2 cents worth. I have no knowledge of asrology, but find it entertaining. An Australian publication a couple of months back gave a lengthy forecast and I quote for anyone interested...."Uranus will radicalise every aspect of our lives through paradoxical shifts, affecting politics, culture, technology and finance. Fluctuations on the stock market will finally produce a devastating crash in world money markets, leaving poverty and despair in its wake. While 1997 is bound to produce some dramatic increases and wild fluctuations, it is the year of 1998 that raises the biggest threat. There, the months of January and February and then June are the high risk times where the brittleness of rapid financial acceleration may all too easily collapse in on itself and us in the process. Make sure your investment package involves only what has real value on a trading market, eg precious metals, gems,useful product or services. Almost certainly by mid 1998, the world money markets will be in disarray....." And in the following edition of the same publication another Astrologer replies saying..."Neil Giles has written an amazing article, but it is too pessimistic for me. The bloke who wrote 'The Earthquake Generation' used astrology for his predictions and yes, they can get it wrong...We are moving backwards from Pisces to Aquarius. The section of Pisces we are in is ruled by Neptune ( say no more..Illusion etc ) and we then move to the Venus decan of Aquarius. Venus is equivalent to Nostradamus' One Thousand Years of Peace." Confused.....Yeah, me too!

Machf15: It has been said, by those who know, that Mr. Greenspan has an inordinate fascination with the price of steel scrap. No entrails, sacred bones, necromancy or other modern rites of economic prediction. Just the price of steel scrap. ....... Who knows. He is doing better than we are...... ( :- ) )

Ok then, anybody know what steel scrap has been doing for the last year or so? It is too late to look it up now. If you can't answer the question, I'll look it up after a good night sleep.

Machf15

Mary Rose: Hmmmmmm. Guess that says it all. ....... Welcome aboard, as well. With Auroelf apparently going abroad, the 'yang' ranks will be thin. ...... Where is "Housewife"? Need to find out how many coin filled coffee cans she has planted.

Looks like the yellow will go down to $320 this week. The fact that gold stocks did not do well last week considering bullion's surge was the tipoff this rally would not last. When a strong bullion rally is accompanied by impressive gold stock performance the bull will be on; not before. Still see this as a base building period in preparation for a powerful bull.

DA - seems like I looked for Pa stocks befor when you asked me. as I recall, Nymex doesn't give out the same info that Comex does, rather curious, don't you thing?

DJ - when you sell a stock short, your broker borrows it from another account, then sells it. ( I wonder if this really happens?!! ) But in commodities, you can either sell a contract as a 'hedge', in which case you are in the business and have the product covered, or you sell it as a speculator where all you do is put up your margin money as a bet that you are right. If the price goes against you, your broker asks you for more money, that is if the price movement is slow enough. However, if the price move very rapidly against you, your broker may buy you in without your knowledge because their money is standing behind yours to guarantee the trade. This leads to some interesting thoughts about how fast gold can move to the upside when it begins to move. The first up moves will be contained by new shorts like RJ, but if they can not keep the market down, they will be forced to cover at increasingly higher prices, which I believe is only a matter of time!!!

Byron : Your 22:24. Great chart but I can't make it work for other symbols. How does one do it- for free, of course.

In the FWIW Dept.--August 20, 1997--Gold $340. October 20--$370. Jan. 20, 1998--$350. I guarantee that these predictions could prove to be erroneous!