Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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(Thu Aug 07 1997 00:05)
Wrestling and Sumou
The bottom line of Japanese economic failures is a political failure. The Japanese do not know how to use the implanted Democracy and democratic economic system.

The Americans believe that the Japanese play wrestling because they guided the Japanese to construct the wrestling rink. However, the Japanese play 'Sumou,' the traditional Japanese wrestling, setting up 'Dohyo' on the wrestling rink. The rules of the two games are different. The Americans maximizes individual utility and the Japanese, collective utility. In essence, they are group people.

In the Japanese political system, on the one hand, the underground Yakuza ( Mafia ) has become the major fund-raising apparatus to operate 'Democracy.' The Liberal-Democrat Party has taken advantage of this fund raising channel, and it is the faction of Mr. Hashimoto that has controlled this fund-raising function in the Party. ( Foreign Affairs "Ichiro Ozawa," Sept/Oct 1995 )

In the Japanese economic system, on the other hand, the equity market was designed to collect the campaign money. One third of equity market fund comes from the illegal activities, like drugs, gambles, prostitution, etc. The Yakuza has more power than institutional investors in the equity market. They, as agents of politicians, collect campaign money by short-swing and harassing corporate using their stockholders' right. As a result, the equity finance grew very slowly in Japan, and the investment in equity market has been regarded as a kind of gambling. ( "Japanese Stock Market" written by a former researcher of Nomura Research Center. )

In stead, the Japanese have reorganized and developed 'Keiretsu,' the Japanese conglomerates around banks which provide 'healthy' debt finance and often interfere corporate management. The Americans are familiar with the corporate Leviathan but not the Keiretsu Leviathan. Their high P/E ratio is the confidence in their Leviathan. Their confidence in their government is even more. Peter Lynch could not believe the IPO price of NT&T, but the high price was their confidence in this privatized corporate.

Up to here, things are clear to me. I am tired and I will go to bed. Good night.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 00:09)
ALL.... Talk about deflation....What would happen right now if all these high flying stock markets took a 15% hit at the same time...What with the crisis in the Pacific Rim countries...HUM.......HUM.....What if the dollar tanked along with the bonds at the same time..?????A scary thought Or maybe a nightmare ??????

(Thu Aug 07 1997 00:25)
The year - 1966
From 1960 thru 1965, inflation never reached exceeded 1.7%. Since then ( for 31 years in a row ) , it has never been that low. What happened? Isn't it curious that everything fell apart in the late 1960s? Morality and the economy, in one fell swoop. It's as if moral relativism ( no absolute standards ) and economic relativism ( no standard ) walked in the door together. Have we forgotten how stable life can be?

Isn't it time to bring back the standards?

If a "gold dollar" is 1/35 of an ounce of gold ( which it was for so many many years ) , then a "paper dollar" has been worth this much each year since 1971: .86 / .60 / .36 / .22 / .22 / .28 / .24 / .18 / .11 / .06 / .08 / .09 / .08 / .10 / .11 / .10 / .08 / .08 / .09 / .09 / .10 / .10 / .10 / .09 / .09 / .09 / .11

In other words, it used to be worth a dollar. Since then, it's stayed at around a dime. A sudden decimation of the dollar in 9 years. And nobody noticed! Now, it has not changed significantly for 18 years. Is that eerie stability just a coincidence?

The dollar _appears_ to have usurped the role of gold as the store of value ( but has it really? ) . I believe that in the coming years, this will be reversed: Gold will be resurrected as the store of value, and the inherent flimsiness of the paper dollar will be revealed. Gold, the self-authenticating substance.

In developing countries ( not as much now as years ago ) , artificial government-imposed exchange rates created a black market in dollars - American money could buy more than local scrip could. Analogously, now, the "world government" - the banks and administrations of the earth acting in concert ( no paranoia here - this is just the way the system works, G7, etc., etc. ) has in effect decreed the exchange rates as recursively self-defining. The Eurodollar is a natural extension of this approach. Will they be able to kill gold? The evidence is that they are trying.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 00:26)
to vronsky
let me think on that one please. Very tempting and thanks for the offer.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 00:31)
Tokyo out of love with whites?
Seems no one mentioned that spot prices for PL and PA both dropped straight down $12 in the first hour in Tokyo. Haven't recovered. Happened last night at the same time as well. I thought these were the folks that had a shortage? The more I learn the less I know.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 00:40)
There is this local appliance showroom with a bright window panel blazoned in red neon: ENJOY NOW - PAY LATER. My thinking, SUFFER NOW -
ENJOY LATER. For us goldbugs, our day is coming!

Lan Man
(Thu Aug 07 1997 01:23)
Ron ( in sack-o-tomatoes ) : re "I've got a headache " Duangkaew Chanruang ( Thailand civil servant ) - NOW she goes out to buy the stuff, after the word is already out. Well at least she has some now. With the help of their new protector, the IMF, the VAT taxes will *only* go up by 43%. Better stock up while you can.

Hopefully for her, China will not play the game and devalue the renminbi to bring its export prices in line. Say like 20% or even moreInDeflation, depending upon which side of the fence your on. ( Thank you Senator Blutarsky )

With the US$ flying high, it is looking more and more like the Global Villagers are all relying on the USA to purchase all those goods that they *need* to export. Heaven help all if we all max out our money cards, ahhhh, I mean our credit cards.

It just shows to go you, one can never be "too" prepared for the inescapable accidentadversitycalamitycatastrophecollapsedebacledisasteremergencytragedy that may strike.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 01:25)
Equity Bulls Outlandishly Bullish
I talked to a client today who owns a financial planning company ( My own company addresses his computer needs ) . I decided to ask him what he thinks of gold's prospects in the near term.

"Precious metals are gone, dead, no impact in the 'new' marketplace" he said. "This bull equity market will continue for quite a while, in fact, I have my clients virtually 100% in mutual funds at the moment." I am paraphrasing from memory, but trying not to alter the content. "A new client with a $500K investment netted $42K in his first week with us, boy this is fun!"

I reminded him of the index funds and "irrational exhuberance" of the 20's, but he steadfastly maintained that "Things are different now." When I pointed out that those statements were made back then as well, he pointed out that margin requirements were different then. "It can't happen now." "Additionally, companies like Walmart are placing 6% ( or whatever ) of employee pay into mutual funds, and adding their own contribution of 25-50 cents on the dollar weekly . . . The money continues and will continue to flow into the equities . . ."

Further, he did not feel that stocks were overvalued - - The technical sector represented by the likes of MSFT were going to continue to outperform all expectations.

Wow - - If many people feel this way, the reversals can't be too far away . . . Gold is obliged to take a beating while this "exhuberance" continues, but the turning point must be getting closer! Those of us that make money at this game are necessarily contrarians, that is, we're buying while the masses are selling, and vice-versa. I am a contrarian, and find this person's views to be a harbinger of things to come. Gold is not dead, only sleeping for a decade or two. The time to act appears to be close at hand.

"Watching for gold to test $300 soon . . ."

Lan Man
(Thu Aug 07 1997 01:26)
@Closing Bell
COMEX and NYMEX precious metals futures ended mostly lower
Wednesday, with the exception of silver, but volumes were
significantly lower than Tuesday.

"Tomorrow could be an interesting day in gold, and I would think
there is still some serious downside risk as basically there's just
been one major player supporting the market," Swiss Bank New York
precious metals dealer, Greg Drury, said. Goldman Sach's has been
among the big buyers in recent weeks, even after the Newmont Mining
1.1 million ounce hedge buy-back, handled by the investment bank,
was completed, many traders said.

"In the past week there been several million ounces bought back
without much upside response in the gold price, which sounds a
bearish note," he said. "About 50 percent of world gold production
is probably uneconomic at current prices, and the longer gold stays
down at these levels, the sooner some miners are going to have to
do some more hedging."

"About 50 percent of Australian reserves are currently hedged, but
only about 12 percent of North American reserves and 10 percent of
South African reserves are hedged, so either one major producing
country is very overhedged or two countries are underhedged."

Meanwhile, NYMEX platinum and palladium futures ended sharply lower
Wednesday, in line with a sharp fall in TOCOM ( Tokyo Commodity
Exchange ) platinum group metal ( PGM ) futures and a sharp fall in
bullion market PGM prices.

NYMEX September palladium ended down $12.00 an ounce at $215.60,
after seeing a new contract high at $227.60 Tuesday. But after a
sharp rally in PGMs since mid-July, which took spot palladium
prices back up to new 17 year highs, a correction was not really a
surprise, traders said.

In the past week NYMEX and TOCOM PGM futures have seen several days
of limit-up moves, driven by fund and broker shortcovering, against
a background of an acute shortage of metal in the physical market.
But a rise in TOCOM deposit margins overnight, combined with an
expanded daily limit, forced some profit taking, traders said.

"Right now there's more stop orders on the downside than the
upside, and it may take more fundamental news about supply problems
in Russia to drive prices back up," RJ Futures president and NYMEX
floor trader, Ralph D'Esposito, said. Russia resumed exports of
PGMs last month, after a six month suspension, but so far the
quantities being exported were not allowing inventories to rebuild,
analysts said.

For the full text story, see

COMEX - 100 troy oz _ dollars per troy oz.

Aug97 318.70 320.00 318.00 318.20 _2.20 414.50 314.60
Oct97 320.50 322.00 319.70 320.40 _2.10 426.50 316.80
Dec97 323.00 324.20 322.10 322.50 _2.10 456.50 318.50
Feb98 325.50 326.30 324.00 324.60 _2.20 424.00 322.50
Apr98 328.00 328.00 328.00 326.60 _2.20 408.40 325.00
Jun98 329.50 329.50 329.50 328.90 _2.20 470.00 327.50
Est. Sales 48250

COMEX - 5,000 troy oz. _ cents per troy oz.
Sep97 432.00 436.00 432.00 433.30 +1.80 576.00 418.00
Dec97 438.00 442.50 438.00 439.60 +1.80 701.90 424.00
Mar98 446.00 448.50 446.00 445.80 +1.80 573.00 432.00
Dec98 464.50 464.50 464.50 464.20 +1.80 752.10 448.50
Est. Sales 25809

NYMEX - 100 troy oz _ dollars per troy oz
Sep97 216.50 220.00 215.60 215.60 _12.00 227.60 128.75
Dec97 208.50 209.00 207.60 207.60 _12.00 219.60 120.25
Est. Sales 1339

COMEX - 50 troy oz _ dollars per troy oz.
Oct97 431.50 439.50 427.00 431.00 _18.60 463.70 355.50
Jan98 421.50 429.00 419.00 421.50 _18.10 454.00 360.00
Est. Sales 3710

Strad Master
(Thu Aug 07 1997 01:48)
Y2K Here we come!
SHEK: Do you know that there is an entire web site devoted to the Y2K problem with lots of horrific scenarios to consider? I find it all fascinating and quite scary but I don't have the expertise to evaluate how correct the predictions are or just how catastrophic it all could become. Here's the URL in case anyone who is and expert is interested in perusing it and giving a definitive report. I, for one, would be most grateful for a concrete and unbiased evaluation.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 02:19)
DJ: your quote.."the more I learn the less I know"; I nominate that for quote of the month. If that doesn't apply to these metals markets, then I 'don't know' what does! :- )

(Thu Aug 07 1997 02:43)
@ rumour-ville
I hear that the hyperbolic curve being mapped out by the S&P & DJIA, are not sustainable much longer. Rumours have it that the ticket to this time, is hidden in the gold-bug's gloom, and surplus of cynicism.
Here, perhaps, is wisdom.

John Disney
(Thu Aug 07 1997 03:52)
For DJ - First _ I have obtained s/d balances for
Palladium and rhodium from 1987 through 1995. I have
a Demand breadown for platinum over the same period
by application and area ( but no supply breakdown
sadly ) - I would provide it but I dont know how
to make table with columns in Kitco-speak
- second- re platinum costs - ARGHHHHH-
try this - I would assume costs in Rand/ton ARE
after subtracting by-product revenue for nickel
rhodium and palladium - in fact I read the report and it
says "total costs net of other metal revenue" - they also
give a cost of platinum - refined oz of 1058R/oz which
would equal - $235 /oz
Similar numbers for leplat are 1596R/oz and 858 for
pp-rust - ie 354$/oz and 191$/oz.
These are anglos rand cost figures- I divided by
4.5 as a blind guess at an exchange rate. I presume
they were based on total cost -less byproduct revenue
divided by platinum produced.
For George Cole - Ray does not speaked with forked
tongue. My number of 50% is radical on the LOW side.
Mines like Western deep would simply shift grade
and keep a million ounces on stream. Some others would
do likewise. I would guess that as much as 75 % would
stay on at 300$. A small rand devaluation would keep
even more on. I think the problem area is Australia.
Also I think that many N.A. mines are in dreamland with
their cost figures which are understated.
A slide to 300 would be interesting. We can test
those N.A. cost figures.

John Disney
(Thu Aug 07 1997 04:18)
For DJ
the 2 mill oz number that was stuck in my head was
the Japanese demand figure which was about 75 %
jewellery. My 1996 demand figure is 885000 Europe,
2030,000 Japan, 1035,000 N.A., 640000 rest of western
The expensive forecasting guy's screwup was presumably
gross overestimation of Russian supply. That seemed to be the
trend among forecasters last year ( who dreamed of cold
Siberian Platinum as they dozed in their warm baths and planned
their days ) . They assumed the stockpile was endless and also
confused production with withdrawal from inventory

The Seer
(Thu Aug 07 1997 04:22)

Create crisis, then solve it, but make hostage those in crisis and eventually you will control the world. That is until the dumb asses wake up and do something about it.
The Seer
For Kommisar KGB

(Thu Aug 07 1997 04:45)
A interesting essay on central bank using derivatives and cash instruments.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 04:56)
Japan to host 11 nation Thai rescue meeting on August 11th.
( That this meeting is being held on 4 days notice seems significant )

(Thu Aug 07 1997 05:15)
Japanese stocks drop below May 1st level on bad debt news.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 05:25)
New vehicle orders plummet in Thailand. Manufacturers cancel expansion plans and announce shutdowns.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 05:39)
Downsizing begins in Pakistan. Bank population faces 30% reduction.
Airline says 15% of expenses go to corrupt officials. Hurt by Asian devaluations. ( Lots of deflation news )

John Disney
(Thu Aug 07 1997 05:41)
For DJ and PGM Fans

Have some cool supply DATA and assumptions
FOR plats

RSA 1993-1997 assume about 3.3 mill oz
russia 1993 .7mill,'94 1.0 mill, '95 1.28 mill, '96
1.2 mill, '97 .6 mill

assume normal russian production is .6 mill and
supply bulge 94-96 was stock pile rundowm - assume
stock pile now close to gone.

For Palladium

RSA assume 1.4 in 1993 rising to 1.7 in 1997
Russia 2.4 in 1993,3.3 in 1994, 4.2 in 1995, 4.6
in 1996.

Assume russian palladium production at 2.2 mill oz.
Bulge over 1994/1996 was from stockpile - pile is
bigger than plats pile as russians produce 4 times
as much palladium. Would guess they have 2 mill oz left ( ?? )
or enough to fill in for 3 years?? _ however looks
they will try to maximize price having given it
away for peanuts for 3 years.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 05:46)
Philippine Central Bank cust overnight rate from 20% to 18%
( This may imply weakness in the banking system )

(Thu Aug 07 1997 05:57)
Malaysian Prime Minister clarifies currency speculation action.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 06:13)
Fact is that the baby boomer/401k money is not enough to keep the mkt going! W/O the massive foreign buying of the bonds/equities and dollar this thing would be history. Their massive buying to propel the mkt ensures a crash even with BB and 401k. After the crash the 401k money and BB money will stop as stks look like a poor investment next to the money mkt!!!

(Thu Aug 07 1997 06:18)
Good mornin Kitcoites...and what a beautiful one it is! Clear+cool with projected high of 72...EBN Gold up .95 and Silver down 1 centavo...Maybe the XAU is telling us the bottom is in for Gold and has been in since the announcement of CB sellin by Australia...

(Thu Aug 07 1997 06:21)
Mornin Donald! You sure got up EARLY....London Gold down .50 and silver @ unch...

(Thu Aug 07 1997 06:49)
Hi Ted: Usually up by 4 AM. Do all my best thinking when the house is quiet. Sunny and 60F. Going to be a nice one for sure.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 06:57)
Brazil registers lowest inflation rate since 1951.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:02)
MIZ: I would be very interested in hearing your opinion on why only the Financial Times in London has carried the story about the problems of Nissan Mutual Assurance. Have you seen any story in Japanese language newspapers?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:02)
Sunny and 70 degrees ie another beautiful day in the Northern Virginia burbs of Wash. DC. I live about 17 miles west southwest of the white house and 16 miles from the Fed. Dick Gephardt and family live over on the next block.

Any thoughts on when gold will test 300? GSC? Anybody?
The Commitment of Traders report is outlandishly bullish on Silver and Gold. Looks like the commercials are wrong and little specs are right. The same situation with the S&P and Bonds/ Commercials are short and little specs are long. THOUGHTS or Comments appreciated.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:03)
oh what a beautiful morning
RUMI: your 2:43 wise and simple...I have made a Haiku out of it...

Hyperbolic curve
overshadows Goldbugs gloom

2- I say put an end to those recursively self-defining exchange rates! Seriously - I myself noticed an incredible change in American Society ( at least what I was exposed to ) after returning from being in the Army & S.E. Asia from '65-67. There was indeed a paradigm shift relative to "relative" morality and standards. I am not making a value judgement, here, but corroborating your observation. A thoughtful post.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:09)
Hang Seng hit another new high....Bank of England just raised interest rates by 25 basis points....Dax soarin ( up 81 ) .....U.S.Dollar flat....
Large seal in front of house....

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:13)
TW: Used to live at 630A St. NE on the Hill. I don't know what you think of his politics but Dick Gephart is a very nice man.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:16)
TW ( 7:02 ) Re-my thoughts...Dick Gephardt is a total FOOL!...with NO conception of how business even operates...A DANGEROUS politician!...Since the markets seem to be attracted to round numbers I thought gold would go down and test 300 but now I'm not so sure after watching the XAU action of the last few weeks...That said...we'll probably hit 300 in 2 weeks!

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:19)
Looks like another delivery of both plat. and pall. So what happened to the shortages? I used to live 2 blocks from Bill Weld, that and $1.25 gets me a cup of coffee

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:20)
Spectacular day!...EBN GOld has gone from up .95 to up .20 in ONE hour..
um....Will have to put that and the other "tea leaves" into the Cuisinart and see what I come up with...Mornin Mike S....

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:23)
Donald did you work on the hill? My wife works for the VA. Her office is near Capitol Hill. I work in boring McLean Va/Tysons Corner. Wash is a great town/ a few weeks ago some buddies of mine and I met downtown for a happy hour and guess who is sitting at one of the tables off to the side but AG himself. A few years ago when I worked out at Georgetown Healy Field House/ who is sitting in the in the sauna when I walk in / none other than Ted and Joe Kennedy

Any comments on the Commitment of Traders.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:23)
I live 900 feet from Eddie MacCleod and that gets me a rum drinkin partner....

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:24)
Joke of the Morning
Morning Ted, fellow sufferers, looks like the inflation gods are being held at bay by the hounds of plenty. I have to go move a bunch of food storage boxes around in the garage this morning for Mrs. Tort so I'm going to be seing those commodities up close and personal. Maybe we have a box full of gold. If so would it be worth keeping? I think I'll keep it if its there. Here's the story for the morning.

Snow White received a camera as a gift. She happily took
pictures of the Dwarfs and their surroundings. When she
finished her first batch she took the film to be developed. After a
week or so she went to get the finished photos. The clerk said
the photos were not back from the processor. Needless to
say, she was disappointed and started to cry. The clerk, trying
to console her, said,

"Don't worry, someday your prints will come".

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:31)
Bonus Joke
One more quick one for you golfers before I am off to the salt mines.

One day this avid golfer returns from a game looking very down and
dejected. He wife says, "What's wrong, dear, you look awful?"

"It was terrible! Bob had a heart attack on the tenth green today and
died on the spot."

"How terrible for you. No wonder you feel the way you do, it must have
been just awful!"

"It sure was," he continued, "the whole rest of the day it was hit a
shot, drag Bob, hit a shot, drag Bob..."

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:35)
Mornin Mr.Tort!!...Here's Hong ( yawn ) Kong Gold...
Ron Carey is a sleeze!....Tort: any word on bread machine???

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:41)
Here's London ( yawn ) Gold....

Bear poster
(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:41)
HK gold imports UP 300+%

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:48)
TW: Yes, I used to work on the Hill. Wash is only a great town in the daytime. You can't go out at night. Can you find a door or window in DC that does not have heavy duty iron bars? In DC the bad guys are on the outside and the good guys "stay in their prisons" for safety. One weekend before I retired there were 23 murders. Five were little kids killed in crossfire between two gangs at a swimming pool. I was glad to get out alive. Two of my co-workers were murdered two blocks from my "nice neighborhood". Sorry to unload on you.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:52)
Things can't get much gloomier than the Gary North story, except perhaps the gold price. I was planning to a miserable day anyway!

(Thu Aug 07 1997 07:53)
TED: You are sure right about Gephart. If he becomes President many of here will think Clinton was a god by comparison. And it could happen with the liberal media pushing him.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:02)
BEAR POSTER: Thank you for that post. The psychology is there for a rally and it fits my Dow/Gold theory nicely but it certainly is not showing up in the price yet. Dow/Gold Ratio was 25.61 last night. Ugh.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:05)
BOB 2: Your 04:45 I believe has the answer as to who is controlling the gold price these days. I have to wonder if what they are doing is based on law??? Some day they will lose control or make big enough mistakes and then the reactions will be magnified.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:07)
TED: Re Hong Kong new high. Did you see my post yesterday from Shanghai? The Vice Premier says investors should not worry, the government will support the markets. Hong Kong too? P.T. Barnum was right.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:08)
Hi Goldbug23....Dickie Gephardt + Teddy ( fat boy ) Kennedy are two of the worst politicians in the USA...and that's sayin a mouthful!...European stox soarin and S+P futures are up 1.10....What else is new???...President Gephardt..hahahaha....would make Bubba look like a genius!

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:09)
AU99,9: What is the Gary North story? I missed it.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:11)
Donald: yeah,I caught that post...the "greater fool theory"....

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:30)
Comex opening: Gold down .10; silver down .3 of a cent; PL down 4.0; and PA down 9.10....More profit takin on the "white stuff"...

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:34)
@NY Rangers
Rangers offer Joe Sakic 21 million for three years...YES!....but is there any inflation??? BBL dudes...

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:35)
@NY Rangers
Rangers offer Joe Sakic 21 million for three years...YES!....but is there any inflation??? BBL dudes...

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:36)
Something that should be remembered when dealing with your favorite coin
shop, is their overhead due to cost of shipping. Example, I recently
ordered Silver Eagles. Price quoted was $.50/each over spot. Around
$.35 was shipping cost. This didn't leave much for covering rest of

George Cole
(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:52)
in Florida
JOBERG gold index up 0.5%. Bullion flat.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:55)
Goldbug23: Is "Liberal Media" just a euphemism for people who want to investigate and expose the worst in politicians? I saw a documentary on PBS's POV program on Monday night that observed the Senatorial race in Virginia when Robb won over Ollie North. The camera caught much that was contradictory and hypocritical on both sides, but the campaigners for the "Republican" North were, in my opinion, exceedingly dishonest as their public and private personas were in stark contrast. They were also the ones who repeatedly blamed everything on the "Liberal media." In general, they resembled a pack of nerdy used car salesmen with an overcooked sense of power.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:58)
Anyone have a thought on Royal Gold, ( nasdq:rgld ) , and Kazakstan Gold fields; ( BB,Toranto:kgfc ) ,.Both these have been recomended by some fairly well known writers and rgld particularly is a domestic producer with a cheap per ounce cost.Anyone know some convieniently left out pitfalls here?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 08:59)
GEORGE COLE: Just watched CNBC for a few minutes. Europe on the way to the moon, everyone is so incredibly, wildly bullish on stocks and bonds, today has got to be THE top. If you get your 8300 today and it tanks tomorrow you will deservedly get your name in the history books.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 09:10)
Gold- more physical buying ahead (1998)?
The Gold Institute: New Tax Law Offers Golden Opportunity to IRA

George Cole
(Thu Aug 07 1997 09:17)
stock market
Donald: I make no claim to be able to call the exact day of the top. I suspect it will look something like Dow +200 points by noon, but minus 100 points by the close. Still think we will see it this month, but my best judgement now is that Dow will not peak until we get around 8500.

Another question is how fast do we go down once the top is in. Rerun of 1987 crash or a lengthy, grinding bear market such as we gold investors have endured these past 18 months? Frankly I am agnostic on this point. But whatever the speed of the falloff, there is little doubt we are going down BIG once the bear begins.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 09:34)
Dr. Randal Burns provides an overview of building a precious metals collection of various forms of bullion. He gives useful tips & caveats for serious collector. Interesting read:

(Thu Aug 07 1997 09:40)
@DFW Airport
To All: If the Y2K problem is catastrophic for the banking system and Wall St. It may not be a bad idea to have a considerable amount of your
assets in gold bullion or coins. A must read for all is Gary North's Y2K
links and forums at
I am reading it with a grain of salt, Hopefully,technology will reign supreme and we will avoid this fiasco.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 09:41)
Japanese Life Insurance
Donald: My information source is your posting. I do not read any Japanese newspaper but I browse Yahoo Quotes of Japanese stock market. It still has technical problems.

In 1994, I found the column of a big 7 life insurance company was blank in the ranking list. A Japanese told me that this company could not bankrupt because the Ministry of Treasure supported it. It was similar to CitiCorp in the US. It looks very political that the mid-size firm had bankrupted first in 1997. I have a lot of questions, but I have to quit.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 09:51)
2 @Aug. 6 22:25 - Thank you so much for taking the time to post this info. So we now have gold at $130 in 1978 dollars. The lowest point since shortly after it came off its decades-long 'fix', which eventually meant ( by the late 60's - early 70's ) that it was extremely undervalued. This data should prove to any doubting thomas that the lows are with us and we are now at bargain basement prices.
Ron@ Aug 6 22:37 - 2,000 * $.05 = $100.00 - My guess is that its just a lottery ticket.
Ted @ ? - Thought you once said you didn't drink all that much?

George Cole
(Thu Aug 07 1997 09:55)
How the laboring masses see it. Is this the beginning of the workers' rebellion predicted by Steve Roach? Interesting how all our free-market oriented businesspeople are clamoring for government intervention against the strikers. Hypocrisy writ large.

August 7, 1997


A Workers' Rebellion

he walkout by 185,000 drivers, loaders and sorters of the United Parcel Service is best
seen as the angry, fist-waving response of the frustrated American worker, a revolt
against the ruthless treatment of workers by so many powerful corporations.

The Times's Dirk Johnson quoted a U.P.S. employee, Laura Pisciotti, on the picket line in
Willow Springs, Ill.: "These companies all have the formula. They don't take you on full time.
They don't pay benefits. Then their profits go through the roof."

U.P.S. has mastered the formula. It dominates the package delivery industry, earning $1 billion
in profits last year. But for hourly employees, the men and women whose muscle and sweat and
brains are needed to get the packages from one place to another, United Parcel is a grim and
often dangerous place to work.

U.P.S. treats its employees like beasts of burden. Workers have to handle packages that weigh
as much as 150 pounds while hurrying to meet the industry's relentless deadlines. Sorters
sometimes handle 1,600 packages per hour. Injuries, many of them serious, come in waves. The
company has seemed unconcerned.

Since 1990, according to the Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration, U.P.S. has
paid more than $4.4 million in penalties and settlement agreements for health and safety
complaints. OSHA officials documented more than 1,300 violations during that period, said
Bonnie Friedman, a spokeswoman.

Kate Bronfenbrenner, director of labor education research at Cornell University's School of
Industrial and Labor Relations, said: "U.P.S. has one of the worst health and safety records.
The company has an injury rate that is two and a half times the industry standard."

The reward for workers who put up with such conditions is the continuing contempt of top
management. For the most part, U.P.S. doesn't even bother to offer full-time employment.
Part-timers account for nearly 60 percent of the company's work force, and more than 80
percent of all the new hires over the past four years.

The pay for part-timers is lousy, less than half the hourly wage of full-time workers. And the
jobs tend not to last long. U.P.S. hired 180,000 part-timers in 1996, and only 40,000 are still
with the company. The shorter the stay, the less likely the worker will qualify for benefits.

"The situation at U.P.S. represents the dark side of job creation," Ms. Bronfenbrenner said.
"Jobs where you work fewer than 20 hours a week, that have completely irregular hours and
that disappear after three months -- are those the kinds of jobs we mean when we talk about job

That's the reality for many U.P.S. workers, which would be bad enough. But the company has
managed to have it both ways. It also assigns thousands of part-time workers to full-time duty
while refusing to give them full-time pay. More than 10,000 part-timers are working 35 or
more hours a week, and they continue to be paid as part-timers. In the corporate suites, that is
called smart management. In other places, it is called ripping people off.

U.P.S. workers, represented by the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, finally decided
they had put up with enough of management's contempt. On Monday they walked out.

At the very least the strike has thrown a brighter spotlight on the increasingly inequitable way
that workers across the country have been treated over the past 25 years. The top corporations
have thrived and the managerial elite has treated itself to breathtaking riches while enormous
numbers of ordinary workers have seen their wages stagnate or decline, their health insurance
and pension benefits vanish, their full-time jobs decay into temporary or part-time employment.
The old ideal of job security has given way to permanent employment anxiety.

Jared Bernstein, an economist with the Economic Policy Institute in Washington, noted that all
of this has occurred even as productivity has been increasing.

"The economic pie has been growing at 1 percent a year for 25 years," he said, "which means
that there is more compensation to go around. But that compensation has been distributed

The U.P.S. strike is a demand for a somewhat fairer distribution.

Home | Sections | Contents | Search | Forums | Help

Copyright 1997 The New York Times Company

(Thu Aug 07 1997 10:05)

DeFOREST, Wis. ( August 6, 1997 11:04 p.m. EDT ) -- A biotechnology company announced Wednesday that it had cloned a bull using a new "highly advanced" technique, but declined to reveal how the method differs from existing technologies..............

The big question remains, was this a paper bull, or a gold bull?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 10:05)
GEORGE COLE: A sandpaper crash does the worst damage, look at the 1966 top on the Dow/Gold Ratio chart as it related to gold. No one wants to believe it's over and by the time they figure it out it's too late. From there it gets steep.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 10:26)

It appears that the new breed brand of bovine has a distinctly metallic flavor.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 10:35)
Breadmaker is still in transit to the Home Shopping Networks. It takes two weeks to process and they won't yet admit they have it back. They may want more dough before I can make more bread. The yeast they cuold do is admit they have it, but they are afraid that might get a rise out of me. And speaking of a rise it appears that gold is rising nicely this morning.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 10:39)

A clipping from today's FT.

Professor Li Jingwen, director of the Institute of Quantitative and Technical Economics at Cass, stressed in an interview that findings were "preliminary" and further refinement of figures was required.
But in a controversial observation for a Chinese economist, Prof Li said
China's yuan was significantly undervalued using the PPP measurement. He
believes the actual value of the yuan is four to the dollar compared with the present official rate of 8.3 He predicts a significant appreciation of the yuan against the dollar over the next several decades.

If this kind of thinking becomes part of the official line, perhaps their recycled trade dollars will be heading into investment vehicles other than U.S. Treasuries. I leave it to the readers imagination where this might be.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 10:53)
GOLD UP 3.30, PLATINUM UP 5.50, SILVER UP cents & Palladium down 3.50:

(Thu Aug 07 1997 10:55)

(Thu Aug 07 1997 10:57)
CNBC analyst celebrity predicts a sharp decline in stocks within next 60 days - although he is bullish longer-term. See INGER LETTER FORECAST:

(Thu Aug 07 1997 11:04)
D.A.: If they can make their stock market any price they want why can't they make the Yuan any price they want?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 11:09)
TORT: You certainly have a lot of crust to say that. I hope when you wrote the 10:35 you had a rye smile. Someday, with more practice, your writing style is sure to flour. Enough of this silliness, back to loafing.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 11:10)
in sack-o-tomatoes
Mooney: The fund -- if indeed it was the same fund Glenn told us about on Tuesday -- ultimately paid 5/oz. That's $275 per option, for a total of $550,000. Not much for a big fund. But if that position ( with a $3.50 strike ) were meant as insurance for a subsequent purchase of 2,000 Jul 98 contracts ( Jul 98 silver is now at about $4.50/oz ) , then, conceivably -- on a bunch of consecutive limit down days -- the fund could lose $10 million, since we're talking about 10 million ounces of silver, plus one-half million dollars in option premiums. That's why I think this position in silver is an outright bearish one on the part of some big fund. But I'll concede that in the world of big funds, perhaps even $10.5 million isn't considered an especially big risk. Hard to imagine, though.

Similarly, the 9200 ( an extraordinary number in my mind ) $360 gold calls purchased yesterday for Dec and Feb expiry don't seem likely to have been meant for protection either, since that would imply a total exposure of about $30 million. Thus, I think this particular position is bullish for gold, and it's very encouraging to me to see that there is at least one big spec/hedger who sees a light at the end of the tunnel for gold.

Of course, I'm real new to this stuff, and might be overlooking some kind of fancy straddle or something. But I just don't see it in the numbers.
Mooney, I very much appreciate your input on this and any issue, and recognize your well-deserved standing here on Kitco. I'm DEFINITELY NOT criticizing anyone, but am just tryin' to understand things, and any and all comments by you, or anyone else, continue to be welcome and much desired. Thanks.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 11:33)
Ron: That silver put purchase just goes to show the extreme nature of the negative sentiment that currently prevails in the metals markets. Since I am a contrarion by nature , I choose to look at that put purchase as a postitive signal much like the commitment of traders report for large speculators.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 11:36)
Leland ( 00:40 ) : Advertising?? Buy now, pay later?? ...... Here is one from some years ago in Anchorage. It was an appliance dealer whose slogan was: "Chillcoot Charlies, where we cheat the other guy and pass the savings on to you".

(Thu Aug 07 1997 11:44)
@Liberal Media
RMW: Your 08:55. When I speak of the Liberal Media I refer to the biased way the majority of the press presents political news. A Roper Center poll commissioned by Freedom Forum, a journalistic foundation of liberal to moderate mien, found 89% of reporters taking the poll voted for Clinton in 1992. Do you think they keep their bias out of their work? I read several papers including the Los Angeles Times. I do not think so!

(Thu Aug 07 1997 11:47)
Look at this one

Gary North's Y2K Links and Forums

Summary and Comments

( feel free to mail this page )

1997-08-07 08:28:26
Charge Cards Are Starting to Fail
This DETROIT FREE PRESS story ( Aug. 7 ) reports on a local
vegetable store that is suing its software supplier. Credit cards with
an expiration date of 2000 are not accepted by the point of sale
( POS ) terminals. Worse; the system sometimes crashes for several

What is interesting is the response of the president of the software
company. The problem is universal, he says, implying that his firm
should not be singled out.

The judge warned against lawsuits. "Lawsuits are not going to be a
solution if in the meantime you're going out of business."

Return to Category: Banking

Return to Main Categories Page

Return to Home Page

(Thu Aug 07 1997 11:48)
Well-known Analyst cites potpourri of currency comments from world-acclaimed sources. Dines also says those blindly bullish on stocks are like the Italian proverb: He who knows nothing, doubts nothing.:

(Thu Aug 07 1997 12:04)
Y2K lawsuits
jfkldsaj ( jgajf ) : I am closer to this Y2K thing than I like. Yes,
in one of the hearings on the Hill looking at legal aspect of Y2K, the
cost of litigation was estimated at $1 trillion. I know the people making
that estimate and they are trying to be conservative in their estimates.
Garry North is a good guy trying to raise awareness ( I had a few
discussions with him ) but in order to get attention to Y2K issue he
sometimes paints extreme ( though possible ) scenario

(Thu Aug 07 1997 12:09)
Tw - we are neighbors
Tw: Hi there. I live in NV and work in McLean. As far as DC goes, I go
to downtown only on business. The last time I was there for "pleasure"
was a few years back taking around my out of town friends. Real shame
what happened to that nice town

(Thu Aug 07 1997 12:10)
Arafat Talking Tough
``Prepare for battle that Netanyahu is forcing on us, because
what is coming is worse than what has already been,'' Arafat
told Fatah leaders in Gaza on Wednesday.

And in another news story I saw today, he was quoted as saying that Israel's tough measures toward the
Palestinians will lead to ``a giant explosion'' that will be impossible to stop.

Off to the gym . . .

(Thu Aug 07 1997 12:10)
Smartfeasor strikes again


Daughter: Mom, I bought you some lovely flowers, hope you like them !

Mom: Thanks love ...

( pregnant pause )

Dad: So, what you'd get me?

Daughter: Oh, yea, I bought you some candy !

Dad: Great

Daughter: ( pause ) and there's some left too !


(Thu Aug 07 1997 12:11)
Micro, I agree.

In the 1970's I knew there would be a marxist revolution in Mexico; it didn't happen.

That the LDC's would default on there loans; they did but nothing happened.

I expect ( hope ) that the situation will be "muddled" through

(Thu Aug 07 1997 12:21)
Further Bread Comments
Donald, I think you've outsliced me on this one. I'll be bake at you later.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 12:26)
muddling through
jfkajl;f ( ajkfa ) : we may muddle through, unfortunately for some the mud pit will be too deep

(Thu Aug 07 1997 12:29)
TORT: Thanks, I kneaded that.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 12:31)
As of Noon EDT:

FSAGX= $20.10 up .23 ( 1.16% )
FDPMX= $13.50 up .15 ( 1.12% )

(Thu Aug 07 1997 12:32)
going up
This morning London AM gold was set at 318.95 ( -.40 ) . Then PM gold went to 321.00 ( +1.65 ) . Very nice change in a few hours. What caused it?

Meanwhile almost all S. African golds are up. This sends a very bullish indicator to me if it holds.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 12:42)
The nominal value of all stocks in this country increased about 800 billion in the month of july 1997. This more than equals the entire production of goods and services of this country. Hey, the whole country can go on vacation, we dont need to work anymore! Looks like the boomers are right after all. On the other hand keep your job for the coming month when this value decreases by two trillion or so.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 12:58)
I see a good sign
Ive got my good sign in this latest dip. Gold stocks tend to
fall/rise by greater degree than bullion. Not this time. Stocks still
go up by higher percentage following the gold, but in this latest drop,
gold stocks did not decline much ( less than bullion ) . For me this is a
positive turn from short to long approach to investing in gold. Maybe
there is a hope ;- )

(Thu Aug 07 1997 13:00)
off to the beach
looking forward to some sun after a grueling workday and
some good news for gold.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 13:33)
Strad Master,
Thanks for the URL.
A friend who works for medium size bank tells me that his bank sees the Y2K problem as very serious, very disruptive to US economy. Not catastrophic, but very serious. They are preparing for possible runs on banks, lawsuits. He is talking about moving to a rural community, away from large cities. He seems concerned. After doing some research in this area I too will make some preparations. Always should have exit strategy and prepare for all eventuality.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 13:38)
Additional discussion on y2k problem can be found at-

(Thu Aug 07 1997 13:48)
to stradmaster, shek
As part of your preparedness strategy, if the problem doesn't
seem to be near resolution by late 1999, I would start converting
all "electronic assets" into hard assets like physical metals,
cash, savings bonds, etc. Better safe then sorry; you can always
transfer back if the scare was for nothing. I would also have
some food and goods stores for a few months at the ready in case
shopping gets disrupted. In the mean time, let's hit the beach!!

(Thu Aug 07 1997 13:59)
Thanks Tort...
For the 'bonus' golf joke...yuk..yuk...

So it's off to the course for me...I now have some ammo. sandbag the handicap.


I see everyone is drinking their OJ today...please continue :-$ )

(Thu Aug 07 1997 14:10)
preparedness strategy
micro-t: and how is it you'll know by late 1999 that Y2K problem is
under control? Don't expect McD. style billboards announcing "as of
today 1,000,000,158,001 lines of code fixed. BTW, late 1999 will be
LATE. Just like with any other strategies you better develop one early
and stick to it. You may get caught just like a short trader trying to
cover his positions. Oh, one more thing, Y2K won't happen on January 1,
2001. It will be happening throughout 1999 with increasing intensity.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 14:18)
More USofA influence @ Canada, *Free* for the asking.
McDougall,Caron - Montreal Law Firm, with roots dating back to *1881*.

*Joining* Coudert Bros. - International Legal Network - Headquarters in
New York,- Has 23 offices in 15 countries - More than 350 Lawyers - Work

" Truly *Multinational*, Crosscultural - It is a true International
*Association*. We are *NOT* a local *Subsidiary* "

Commercial Law - Mergers - Acquisitions & Project Financing.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 14:21)
Mike, I saw a good docum. on the history channel last night on the V.W. They interviewed some gunners but none with your name. What hell on Earth that's your psyche? You seem to be OK. There was some interesting things said about the psyche of the vet...did you ever get the stare?

Peace and Love Bro...



(Thu Aug 07 1997 14:28)
AFTERNOON GANG....Beautiful day here....TED...did you catch that seal ??

(Thu Aug 07 1997 14:29)
Good News for Precious Metals
When this information filters down to the man in the street, watch out! Average folks know full well that gold is a sound hedge against hard times, but have not been so foolish as to swamp the switchboard at the Franklin Mint. Goldbugs had better hang on tight when Joe Blow realizes there's a tax break in it for him. The golden rocket is on the launch pad and ready for takeoff next January, unless someone -- or something -- lights the match before then.
The Gold Institute: New Tax Law Offers Golden Opportunity to IRA Investors

WASHINGTON, Aug. 6 /PRNewswire/ -- President Clinton this week signed the
Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997, creating sweeping changes for Americans who
invest in Individual Retirement Accounts ( IRA ) . The new tax legislation is
expected to swell the number of IRA investors in the coming years.
A particular provision of the Bill, Section 304, broadens the precious
metals options for IRA investors beyond US Mint-issued American Eagle Gold and
Silver Bullion coins and permits investment in other gold bullion coins and
gold bullion bars provided that they are of the fineness equal to or exceeding
99.5 percent gold. The legislation becomes effective on January 1, 1998.
The provision also expands investment opportunities beyond the American
Eagle bullion coins to silver, gold, platinum and palladium bullion coins
issued by other nations including the Canadian, Austrian, and Australian
mints. Bullion coins provide the small investor with an economical way to
make precious metals investments for diversification and portfolio protection
purposes. Bullion coins are manufactured in large quantities and in a
standardized uniform manner, making them fungible, or interchangeable with
each other.
"This gives a much needed boost to precious metals market, and it is
significant because Congress is in effect putting precious metals investments
in IRAs on equal footing with bonds and equities," said Michael Clark, vice
president of the Wilmington Trust Company.
More than 4.3 million investors have invested toward individually directed
retirement accounts over the past 15 years. Current IRA assets total
$1.3 trillion. Although IRA investors may contribute to a wide variety of
precious metals mining stocks and mutual funds, they have been unnecessarily
restricted in their choice of physical precious metals investments. Bullion
is fabricated in several forms, among which the two most predominant are bars
and coins.
While coins are convenient for smaller transactions, they do carry a
higher premium than bullion bars, which may make them less attractive for
investors choosing to invest larger amounts in precious metals. To address
that, the new provision also permits investment in bullion bars of silver,
gold, platinum and palladium, which come in a variety of sizes ranging from
one gram up to 1,000 ounces. Bullion products are liquid investments, with a
global 24-hour market.
"Gold has been used as a store of value for 5,000 years, and millions of
Americans invest in precious metals today," said Paul Bateman, executive vice
president of The Gold Institute. "It is an excellent way to diversify a
portfolio and provide a hedge against inflation and financial uncertainty.
Gold can bring balance to other portfolio assets like stocks, bonds and mutual
funds, reducing the volatility caused by fluctuation in the securities
The Gold Institute is a non-profit international association of miners,
refiners, bullion suppliers and manufacturers of gold products. Since 1976,
it has been educating the public on the uses, benefits and values of gold.
The Gold Institute's Web site can be accessed on the Internet at:
SOURCE The Gold Institute

(Thu Aug 07 1997 14:54)
What gives in the Long Bond? We're up about 7.5 basis point in the last hour. Who said what to whom?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 14:58)
EARL: Your 11:36 "golden" humor is appreciated!

(Thu Aug 07 1997 15:03)
to Miro
You're right of course. Do you agree that we should transfer out
of electronic accounts? At what point should we start considering
this? I guess now would be a good time to start accumulating
bullion if you can keep it in your own grubbies. It should
probably be certified somehow for authenticity.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 15:04)

Just another straw in the wind; and be sure ( if it creates major problems downwind and they -the powers- solve it ) they will put it in their hat and say WE SOLVED IT and you S-U-C-K-E-R-S need us.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 15:06)
Chance for fame!
George Cole - Would you please stop interfering with my attempts to make you famous? DOW touched 8300, up about 30, and now is down 55, dropping vertically. Remember -- you said 8300. Forget the rest.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 15:07)
Tick chart for the thirty year Long Bond.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 15:08)
looks like folks ara defaulting on their loans
Financial Institution filing for bankruptcy

(Thu Aug 07 1997 15:10)
RON...If I ran a large fund that expected to purchase a large position ( 2,000 is the limit in one month ) of silver future contracts, but I expected that silver had some more downside...I would purchase puts to cover myself....Yes I would want a long period of time on them because I am not sure when the time will be right...If I buy them at a strike a little lower than I expect the metal spot to go, I may also cover my futures premium....You may wish to look at this purchase again and see it as a pretty firm level of support......

(Thu Aug 07 1997 15:19)
MIRO: I think they are in the same type of business as Jayhawk and Mercury Finance. Giving loans for cars to people who had poor credit. Jayhawk and Mercury both are bankrupt.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 15:30)
To any pessimists out there, let me describe a cartoon I once saw. The
picture was of two emaciated, ragged, prisoners spread-eagle and shackled
against a dungeon wall. One has turned to the other. The caption reads,
"Now here's my plan."

Ron Jett
(Thu Aug 07 1997 15:32)
info on Sunshine Mining it slow but looking better perhaps.

Pizza Man
(Thu Aug 07 1997 15:46)
Bull coming!
Today I was playing the S&P and watched the market every minute.
30 yr Bond yield dropped to 6.45% yield and the market could not
get a rally going. Big Labor Pressure Forum on CNN Talk Back Live.
Goerge S. Cole you may be correct about your projections.
Things are getting very interesting!

(Thu Aug 07 1997 15:46)
Strong Hands?
Looks to me that with the gold shares up today on very light volume .. strong hands hold the shares ... wait till the buyers show up!!

(Thu Aug 07 1997 16:09)
There's an explanation for everything;

Small caps, gold, Treasuries.....

(Thu Aug 07 1997 16:24)
Dow/Gold Ratio 25.10

(Thu Aug 07 1997 16:25)
Was outside doin chores all day and what a nice surprise to come in and see gold had a nice little rally ( up 3.30 ) and the XAU was up .87....Don't know about gold but I'm still gettin the feelin that the LOW is in for the XAU.......that's my un-educated guess anyway! Another spectacular day on the North Atlantic ocean.....

(Thu Aug 07 1997 16:25)
Gold up -
Gold up on fund buying, weak dollar

(Thu Aug 07 1997 16:32)
Aussies -Unemployment problems
They'll regrett selling their gold
Friday, August 8, 1997

Jobless queue jumps 23,000

By PAUL CLEARY, Economics Correspondent

The number of unemployed rose by 23,300 people in July, pushing the unemployment rate back to 8.7 per cent as
the Federal Government conceded the job market was "flat" and the task ahead "long and difficult".

(Thu Aug 07 1997 16:36)
Mooney ( 9:51 ) I don't!!! Once a week....usually Saturday!...Nailz: I leave da seals alone....Tort-Donald: good bread!....The garden is goin great guns and veggies,soy sauce,ginger,garlic,and whole wheat noodles on the menu...sprinkled with HOT pepper...speakin of which...BBL!

(Thu Aug 07 1997 16:38)
Korean tax receipts well below forecasts.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 16:49)
Thailand- a run on deposits and more
"We cannot afford to allow the remaining 15 banks and 33
finance companies to fall or the entire system will collapse," Gen
Chavalit said. "You must believe in the Government." His
comment last night contrasted sharply with his earlier statement
after his three hour meeting the economic advisory team chaired
by Chatichai Choonhavan, the Chart Pattana leader.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 16:58)
German unemployment hits 4.4 million. Highest in 52 years.
Germany: Unemployment hits a new
post-war record


By Ralph Atkins in Bonn

Hopes of a break in the relentless upward trend in German unemployment
were set back by figures showing a 17,000 jump in July's
seasonally-adjusted total to 4.396m - another post-war record.

The increase added to the political difficulties faced by Chancellor Helmut
Kohl following the collapse last week of his government's tax reform plans
and pointed to further difficulties in meeting the financial criteria for
would-be members of the planned European single currency.

It also highlighted a growing imbalance between eastern Germany, where
the economy remains weak in spite of massive investment, and the west,
where there are signs of unemployment stabilising. Mr Bernhard Jagoda,
president of the federal labour office, said there was an "increasing
lop-sidedness" between the two parts of the country.

However, labour office officials warned that the differences could have
been exaggerated by the transfer of unemployed people registered in west
Berlin from the west German figures into those for the east.

The politically sensitive unadjusted unemployment figure last month rose by
131,800 to 4.354m - a record for the month of July.

Seasonally adjusted figures released by the Bundesbank put eastern
German unemployment at 18.2 per cent of the workforce, up from 17.8
per cent in June. For the west, the figure fell to 9.8 per cent from 9.9 per
cent the previous month.

The gloomier-than-expected numbers reversed growing expectations that
the Bundesbank would soon try to raise short term interest rates to shore
up a weak D-Mark.

However, it is likely that later this month Bonn will have to revise upwards
its forecast that unemployment will average 4.285m this year. In turn, that
could signal fresh difficulties for Germany in meeting the public sector
deficit target of 3 per cent of gross domestic product for countries wishing
to join the proposed single European currency.

"Even if unemployment remained unchanged during the last five months of
1997, the jobless total would average 4.36m," said Mr Robert Prior-
Wandesforde, European economist at HSBC James Capel in London.

The difference compared with the government forecast would add 0.1 per
cent of gross domestic product to the budget deficit, he added.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 17:03)
China- Tehran News
China Blasts U.S. over Tibet Move
BEIJING ( AFP ) - China yesterday blasted the United States over plans to appoint a special coordinator
for Tibetan affairs, saying it was an uninvited interference in its internal affairs.

"No one has received an invitation to do such a `favor' for China," the official China Daily said in a signed

"No one has even asked China's opinion of such a move, in which the U.S. again takes a hand in another's
domestic affairs," it said.

U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright told the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee last week that the
coordinator would be tasked with promoting a dialogue between Beijing and the exiled Tibetan spiritual
Leader, the Dalai Lama.

The coordinator would also "seek to protect the unique religious, cultural and linguistic heritage of Tibet"
along with human rights, she said.

The editorial defended Chinese rule of Tibet, saying large amounts of money had been spent to promote
Tibetan language and culture by restoring religious buildings and opening schools.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 17:08)
Iranian press-(a lot of China 'friendly' news)
Surgery Adds Stature to Short People in China

BEIJING Chinese tired of being short can turn to Dr. Xia Hetao to make them taller through
limb-lengthening surgery, the China Daily said on Monday. Xia normally performs such operations to
correct limb deformities and dwarfism, but some people unhappy with their height have sought him out to
perform cosmetic surgery, the newspaper said. One such patient included an aspiring model hoping to
reach the height requirement for modelling school, it said. Xia, a professor at the capital University of
Medical Science, succeeded in lengthening the legs of Xiao Min to lift her height to 1.78 meters ( 5 ft 8
inches ) from 1.75 meters ( 5 ft 7 inches ) , enabling her to qualify for the school, it said. Xia, who has added
to the height of more than 100 people since he started the surgery in 1984, said he was not so happy
about performing such cosmetic operations. I am accustomed to using limb-lengthening technology to help
children and adults who have limb length discrepancies due to birth defects, disease or injury, the
newspaper quoted Xia as saying. He lengthens limbs by making cuts in the bones, which are then gradually
pulled apart by metal braces at a rate of 1mm a day. New bone forms at the incision, causing it to grow
longer with up to 5 cm ( two inches ) possible in two months, the newspaper said. The average limb
lengthening is 9.5 cm ( 3.7 inches ) but a maximum growth of 16.5 cm ( 6.5 inches ) has been recorded, it
said. ( Reuter )

George S. Cole
(Thu Aug 07 1997 17:11)
DJ: I'll be quite satisfied if my prediction that stocks will peak and the gold bear will end in August proves correct. If 8300 turns out to be the exact top -- that is just icing on the cake.

Interesting that small caps were down just a tad today. When the market rallies again, these probably will be the leaders.

Looks like gold stock investors knew something yesterday that futures traders didn't. Wonder if the rally reflects insider knowledge that more hedge covering announcements are imminent?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 17:15)
Asia-Pacific: Kuala Lumpur tumbles 3.4%
on trade gap news

Originally published: WEDNESDAY AUGUST 6 1997

KUALA LUMPUR tumbled 3.4 per cent on news of a large trade deficit
in June to extend its losses over the past two trading days to about 6 per

Sentiment, damaged on Monday by the central bank's imposition of
selective capital controls to curb currency speculation, weakened further.
The composite index ended 33.48 lower at 945.08.

Telekom Malaysia was down 30 cents to M$8.95 and Malayan Bank
shed M$1.10 to M$23.30. Brokers said there was talk that a leading
hedge fund had sold 200,000 shares in Malayan Bank through Singapore.

The news of the biggest monthly trade deficit in 17 years of M$2.8bn in
June could not have come at a worse time, analysts said.

TOKYO declined for the third day running on continued selling of leading
shares following the recent series of weak economic data, writes Gwen

The Nikkei 225 average fell 153.62 to 19,514.45 after trading between
19,362.44 and 19,767.58.

Growing pessimism about economic direction hit the market from the
outset following negative news from a range of sectors, including domestic
vehicle sales, consumer spending, industrial output and construction orders.

The slide gathered momentum in the early afternoon as blue chip exporters
plunged on profit-taking. Traders noted heavy selling by investment trusts.
However, towards the end of the day bargain-hunters came in to lift the
225 index back above the 19,500 mark.

Volume rose from 339m shares to an estimated 429m. Declines led
advances 716 to 401 with 147 unchanged. The Topix index of all first-
section stocks shed 10.13 to 1,487.13 and the capital-weighted Nikkei
300 was down 2.10 at 290.06.

Many general construction shares touched new lows for the year on
concerns about debt loads and the poor earnings outlook. Obayashi fell
24 to 650 and Kajima 18 to 563. Tada, the day's most active issue,
ended at the asked price of 7 after filing for bankruptcy protection on July

Carmakers and electrical stocks retreated. Toyota fell 130 to 3,160,
Honda 110 to 3,620 and Mazda 2 to 465. Among
semiconductor-related issues, Advantest fell 300 to 10,800, Kyocera
390 to 9,600 and Tokyo Electron 260 to 7,040. Sony shed 100 to
11,900. Canon fell 100 to 3,520. Nikon, however, rose 20 to
2,120 after reaching a record high of 2,180 earlier in the day.

Pharmaceuticals were mixed. Among those to draw buying interest,
Sankyo rose 30 to 4,120 and Takeda Chemical Industries 40 to
3,410 . Yamanouchi Pharmaceuticals, however, fell 60 to 3,010 and
Daiichi Pharmaceuticals 80 to 2,090.

Nomura Securities fell 20 to 1,630 after recent gains, and other brokers
also retreated. Banks mostly improved. Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi rose
30 to 2,180, Industrial Bank of Japan 20 to 1,580 and Fuji Bank
10 to 1,450. Sumitomo Bank, however, fell 20 to 1,780.

In Osaka, the OSE slid 178.90 to 20,230.82 and volume rose to 27.6m

TAIPEI ran into profit-taking following a sharp rise for money market
rates. The weighted index fell 146.08 or 1.45 per cent to 9,919.68 after
touching an intra-day low of 9,914.10. Turnover was light at T$189bn.

Money market rates have risen steeply over the past two days in a clear
attempt by the central bank to bolster the Taiwan dollar. The dollar rallied
yesterday but the monetary tightening took its toll of equities, which have
risen more than 40 per cent this year.

Electronics bore the brunt of the profit-taking. Microchip maker Winbond
fell T$0.50 to T$78 in spite of a dramatic, four-fold profits upgrade.
Financials were also weak. Chiao Tung Bank tumbled T$5.50 to T$74.50
as the government set about reducing its stake from 89 per cent to 60 per

SEOUL ended higher on foreign buying of blue chips and bargain-hunting
among low cap stocks. The composite index closed up 6.67 at 740.86.

But shares of four units of South Korea's troubled Kia Group plunged on
news that immediate emergency loans to the group were unlikely. Kia
Motors lost Won1,200 to Won14,000, Asia Motors fell Won430 to
Won5,020, Kisan shed Won440 to Won5,170 and Kia Service fell
Won440 won to Won5,060.

Kia Steel bucked the trend, rising Won230 to Won3,140 as investors
continued to signal their approval of last week's news that Hyundai and
Daewoo had agreed in principle to buy a stake in the company.

MANILA was boosted by better than expected inflation data, which lifted
the composite index 36.67 to 2,676.2. Official statistics showed inflation in
July was steady at 4.8 per cent, despite the depreciation of the peso.

Shares of Megaworld Properties jumped 12.7 per cent to 3.10 pesos in
late trade on talk of a possible buy-in.

BANGKOK pared initial losses but still closed with the SET index off
15.35 or 2.3 per cent at 648.47 on turnover of Bt6.7bn.

The low for the session was 634.58.

The shake-out, which extended the market's losing run to four days, was
sparked by the government suspending more troubled financial groups.

BOMBAY swept through the 4,500 mark. The BSE index closed 80.93
higher at 4,546.30 after the latest round of company results came in at the
top end of broker expectations.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 17:25)
GEORGE COLE: Even if it goes beyond 8300 you should be proud. When I was still working I predicted the Japan crash, everyone said I was nuts, ditto the S&L disaster, they still said I was nuts. Then I predicted that the Dow would never reach 7000. The problem is that by then all my friends were begining to believe me. Now I wish I had kept my mouth shut. Well, the Dow should NOT have reached 7000, or 8000, or 8300. But it did.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 17:35)
Europe: Lacklustre bonds hold bourses in

Originally published: WEDNESDAY AUGUST 6 1997

By Greta Steyn and Jeffrey Brown

Weak debt markets reflecting worries about an upward nudge for US and
German money costs kept most European bourses firmly in check

FRANKFURT moved down below 4,300 on the Dax in early trading,
but eventually overcame worries about weak bonds to close modestly
higher in seasonally dull volume.

Banks were mixed amid continued talk of higher German interest rates, but
Munich Re was in demand and there were a number of firm features
among broader-based engineers and industrials.

The Dax, 4,302.68 at the close of floor trading, had moved up to an
Ibis-indicated 4,325.86 when electronic trading came to an end, a gain of

Among engineers Preussag gained DM17.00 to DM564 and Linde was
firm for the second day running, adding DM49.00 at DM1,389 as the
dollar continued to climb against the D-Mark. Veba improved DM1.50 to

Munich Re led the financial pack, gaining DM112.00 to DM6,850 after
the insurance giant forecast a strong rise for June premiums. Dresdner
Bank shed DM2.25 to DM78.45 and Deutsche 55pfg to DM117.45, but
Commerzbank added DM1.04 at DM62.35.

Volkswagen, initially higher on the news that its Audi unit had notched up
US volume growth of 34 per cent for the first seven months of 1997,
ended DM15.00 lower at DM1,356.50. Porsche, where US sales almost
doubled, lost DM120.00 to DM2,805.

Among second-liners, FAG Kugelfischer gained DM1.20 to DM36.10 on
renewed speculation that SKF of Sweden was teeing up a takeover bid.
Adidas rose DM1.50 to DM216 ahead of today's interim results.

ZURICH had a switchback session that swung from plus 64.0 to minus
47 on the SMI index before finally settling at 5,765.2, up a bare 5.8 on the

UBS was the main talking point, kicking off the banks' half-year reporting
season with a set of results that mostly disappointed. Analysts felt the
earnings surge owed too much to the elimination of restructuring costs. The
shares ended off SFr41.00 at SFr1,627. SBC fell SFr8.00 to SFr408 and
Credit Suisse eased 75 centimes to SFr196. Elsewhere among financials,
insurance group Winterthur jumped SFr24.00 to SFr1,493 on reports that
a leading bank was in the market for the shares.

MILAN edged lower in the face of a number of bright features and the
news that unit trust inflows in July had surged against June. The Mibtel
real-time index closed off 114 at 14,324.

Alitalia was the subject of speculation, gaining L78.50 to L975.4 following
rumours of an imminent link with KLM of the Netherlands. News of a
strategic contract in the far east lifted Pirelli L51.00 to L4,785.

AMSTERDAM succumbed to profit-taking and interest rate jitters to
end barely changed after a firmer start. The AEX index was up only 0.24
to 979.59 as the market remained preoccupied with the strong dollar and
with profit reports.

AEX component Gist-Brocades tumbled 17.6 per cent to Fl 64.90 after it
had said its 1997 profits would be below last year's. The biochemicals and
food group said the price of penicillin had hit a "historic low" due to
additional capacity in China and India. Volume in the shares, a strong
market in recent weeks, was heavy at almost 3.5m traded.

KLM dipped 40 cents to Fl 76.00 despite better than expected
first-quarter results. The airline climbed to Fl 79.00 initially, but lost its
gains as overall market weakness dragged it down.

The market ignored solid profits from business publisher Wolters Kluwer,
taking its share Fl 5.00 lower to Fl 278.00.

PARIS continued to fret about higher interest rates, but shares bounced
off their lows in thin volumes. The CAC 40 index closing 8.31 down at

Canal Plus fell FFr35.00 to FFr1,100 after a downgrade by brokers CPR
Finance. Gnrale des Eaux was also hit by a downgrade, shedding
FFr10.00 to FFr730.

The health sector bucked the trend, with Sanofi rising FFr6.00 to
FFr619.00 on positive signals from research and development. The
company is working on new products for the treatment of hypertension
and thrombosis. Air Liquide closed FFr6.00 lower at FFr941. The
company denied that it was in talks to acquire a stake in Indian company
Industrial Oxygen.

Alcatel Alsthom remained at the top of the actives list, closing unchanged
at FFr845. Joint venture GEC Alsthom said it was interested in acquiring
the non-nuclear energy activities of Westinghouse, but it denied speculation
that it was already in talks.

STOCKHOLM closed higher on the back of a rise in index component
Astra, the drugs group, ahead of half-year earnings on Friday. The general
index closed up 22.01 at 3,162.77 on average turnover. Astra attracted
attention after a lacklustre period, rising Skr4.00 to Skr149.50. Telecoms
equipment heavyweight Ericsson firmed in line with its Wall Street
performance but came off highs to close Skr1.50 up at Skr355.50.

Investor, the investment holding company, rose despite Saab Auto
reporting a first-half loss. Investor, which co-owns Saab, gained Skr5.50
to Skr421.00, with the carmaker's losses said to have been discounted.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 17:51)
micro-t getting ready
Micro-t: I would not dare to give somebody advice how to handle his/her
financial affairs but I can express my opinion. Y2K should be handled
as any other even which may bring some disruption into financial system.
I think that the stock market will "feel" the Y2K impact in 1999 and one
should not be in it at that time. Electronic transaction should not be
affected before the end of 1999 - after that, I would suggest that you
have some cash to handle your financial affairs ( just to be on a safe
side in a case when there is a problem with accepting you check or
credit card by retail and service outfits ) . I dont think that there
is a reason for keeping all your money under your mattress. There may
be a temporary problem to get to your account and some banks may go
under. For that reason I would not keep a significant amount in a
single financial institution ( e.g., famous $100K limit insured by feds ) ,
spread it around , and have some cash to get you through ( just in case )
I would increase a gold reserve in my portfolio ( be it bullion or coins )
to more that the usual recommended amount of 5-10%. Many people talk
about putting money into hard assets ( RE, boats, etc ) I think I would
rather have cash ready to buy it when things get bad. People who lost
all money in stock market crash, or it disappeared with failing bank,
will be selling hard assets for nothing.

As far as major mutual fund companies go ( e.g. Fidelity ) I think they
will be Y2K ready, however, as with banks you may have a temporary
problem to get your money out ( so more if there is a "run on mutual
funds" and everybody trying to get their money out ) . Sure enough, my
mutual funds money wont be in stocks ( except for PM funds ) . Money
market, treasury securities would be a better bet to carry it over until
things settle down.

Hey, its just MHO.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 17:58)
Analysis: A hole of Thailand's own making


Ted Bardacke wonders whether an IMF deal will be enough to revive
Thailand's economy

Holes are a common sight in Thailand. There are holes in the streets, where
relays of workers dig up sewers or install fibre-optic telephone lines.
Larger holes are found on the highways, where overweight trucks are
allowed by bribed policemen to ply the thoroughfares.

Now, suddenly, comes the biggest hole yet - one in the public accounts.
This has so far cost $20bn and shows signs of getting bigger.

On Tuesday, the Bank of Thailand detailed parts of an economic reform
package designed to obtain between $12bn and $15bn in emergency
credits from the International Monetary Fund. Simultaneously, it
announced it had lent, apparently in the same chaotic way that other holes
are created, nearly $16bn to the finance companies it has now declared
insolvent. Another $3bn in public money has been spent to bail out the
fraud-ridden Bangkok Bank of Commerce over the past 18 months.

In addition to all that came yesterday's guarantee - worth at least $7bn and
perhaps as much as $31bn - to protect all depositors and creditors at
both the suspended and operating finance companies. In all, the size of
Thailand's financial system bailout is comparable to the US Savings &
Loan debacle.

Little wonder then that the country was forced to turn to the IMF. But after
botching last month's flotation of the baht, the fact that the government had
to be dragged to the negotiating table must cast doubts on its real
commitment to reform.

"I have never seen Thailand in such a serious crisis," Mr Anand
Panyarachun told reporters this week. And he should know: twice this
decade he was appointed prime minister after bloody military coups.

He added that "there is nowhere else in this world where people have lost
all faith in their own government and prefer their financial and monetary
affairs to be managed by the IMF."

The frustration of influential intellectuals and economists was, in large part,
due to the belief that the Thai government could have forestalled the crisis
on its own. The belief is that it should not have waited so long to float the
baht and then to announce measures to deal with the aftermath of its 20
per cent fall.

By most economists' reckoning, at the start of the year the country faced
no imminent balance of payments crisis. The currency was not seriously
overvalued, the first budget deficit in a decade was going to be manageable
and international financial markets were giving Thailand some breathing
space. If at that point the government had taken some tough decisions - by
introducing more flexibility to the baht, cutting government spending and
being tough with insolvent financial institutions - it would have rescued the
economy on its own with less pain.

But a government that came to power by spending nearly $1bn to buy
votes was not going to trample on vested interests voluntarily.

"Politicians are quite happy not taking decisions that are painful. That has
been the theme of this entire year," says Mr Ammar Siamwalla of the
Thailand Development Research Institute, an independent think-tank.
"What preceded the devaluation was total incompetence."

Some in Thailand are worried that by, in effect, farming out the difficult
economic decisions to the IMF, the government will never learn to tackle
difficult issues on its own. There is a fear that, once the economy gets back
on its feet, the government will fall into past patterns. This would risk
turning Thailand into a boom-and-bust country more akin to Latin America
in the 1970s than other south-east Asian tigers.

"In a couple of years we will be back in business, although it won't be due
to the government," Mr Ammar says.

Most analysts agree with Mr Ammar's contention that it will be at least two
years before Thailand, one of the world's fastest growing economies
between 1986 and 1996, can rejoin the ranks of the tiger cubs. Corporate
Thailand has borrowed more money, both in absolute terms and as a
percentage of gross domestic product, than its south-east Asian
neighbours. Its domestic interest payments as a percentage of GDP are
three times those of Mexico's at the time of the peso devaluation,
according to Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs.

When Thailand's non-performing loans rise as a result of IMF-approved
belt-tightening, the pressure on the government's balance sheet is going to
grow further. This is not lost on other south-east Asian countries trying
both to learn from Thailand and distance themselves from it at the same

"Long-term prospects for Thailand are good. But . . . we must never let
this happen to us," Mr Lee Hsien Loong, Singapore's deputy prime
minister, told a gathering on Sunday to commemorate that country's
National Day.

Yesterday, some commercial banks experienced a run on their deposits
prompting a return of rumours, categorically denied by the central bank,
that a number of small banks could also be shut down.

But even if the Bank of Thailand's assurances are to be believed - difficult
for some who have seen the institution reverse course with tidal regularity -
brokerage W.I. Carr estimates that by closing down half of the financial
institutions the central bank has locked up 10 per cent of the financial
system's deposits and 15 per cent of its assets. This will deprive the
already cash-strapped manufacturing companies of much needed liquidity.

"The impact on the real economy is going to be very, very large," says Mr
Warut Siwasariyanon, head of research at ING Barings in Bangkok.

"Companies and financial institutions are just hoarding cash right now.
There isn't much scope for interest rates to come down for the next 6 to 9
months," he says.

Thai officials say this is now the IMF's problem. They have declared
victory and retreated. Believing he has won the economic battle by calling
up reinforcements, Mr Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, the prime minister, is now
moving on to the even trickier problem of political reform.

He is seeking to muster support for a new constitution, designed to reduce
the influence of money in politics and create a more accountable and
professional government. This, the optimists hope, will provide the political
support that economic reformers in Thailand will need. A draft version of
the constitution goes to parliament next month.

Getting the charter passed will once again require difficult and painful
decisions. Many politicians, including members of General Chavalit's
coalition, could see their lucrative careers ended by political reform.

"I am optimistic the new constitution will pass. It won't completely clean up
politics but it won't be as bad as it is now," says Mr Ammar. "But I don't
know where in between those two options it will fall."

Thai government unveils tough economic reforms

(Thu Aug 07 1997 18:07)
Economic Growth:
Many of the worlds economies seem to be doing well as we flare up before the coming darkness ( even as their balance sheets continue to deteriorate ) . There are several prominent exceptions however, Japan, Germany, Korea, Russia and perhaps others. What these laggards seem to me to have in common is, they cannot or will not import cheap labor. For Japan especially it must be almost madding, they print the paper and stagnate, we borrow the paper, buy the cheap labor and seem to prosper.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 18:23)
@Knocking At The 98th Gate:
Still hanging around that 98 XAU level on the close. Wonder what everyone is waiting or looking for. Newmont continues to "creep" ahead and also the HUI Index....."A catalyst, a catalyst, my gold hoard for a catalyst".

(Thu Aug 07 1997 18:25)
Re: Leland, silver eagles
Leland: Could you please tell me who is selling silver eagles at spot plus 50 cents? Thanks.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 18:33)
china has been caught buying influence in us gov't.

china has been caught using the port that ( OUR gov't
gave china instead of our own marines ) used to be a
naval base in california to trans-ship tractor-trailer
loads of heavy armament into s. america ( mexico ) .

china has operatives ( spies ) stealing and buying our
technology to be reverse-engineered so as to subvert
our patent and technological bases, and give their
technology base a quantam leap in high-tech r&d.

they are exporting missle, biological, nuclear, and terrorist
capabilities to their co-horts in the hot-spots around the world.

one of their top generals recently was quoted as saying that
china had been pursuing a massive ( quiet ) up-grading of their naval
and air-forces with the intent of defeating the US fleet
that has dominated their sphere of influence since ww11.
he also noted that such an attack would be predicated by
another military action against the us in another part of
the world. ( iraq? israel? korea?? )

their recent show of strength using modern naval and missle
technology demonstrated their resolve that the world will
take note of them, and their intents ( historical ) , one way
or another.

as the us continues to down-size their military AND its'
capabilities, our attested enemies who openly vow to destroy
our country and all who love freedom, continue to feign
weakness, while building the machinations of death
and destruction.

the recent gulf war raises one question over and over.

why did iraq not fight back? look at the casualties
suffered by the coalition. very few for this type
of war? do turkey shoots exist in ANY military ( modern )

could the west have been GIVEN a great victory over an evil
entity monopolizing OUR oil? this would have also given a
false perception of the invincibility of our high-tech
smart weapons relative to the soviets arsenals. two false
perceptions. our great victory, our military superiority.

there were many reports ( military ) during the gulf war, of soviet
observers and training forces, being spotted and recorded
over radios. was this war given the ok from some
other taskmasters? did russia and/or china broker
this and the up-coming korean and mid-east conflict
to determine our capabilities and sow the seeds of
invincibility? as our pilots are shot from the sky,
and our tankers destroyed in the desert, we shall realize,

knowledge is power, and our complacency has cost us our all, cost us our all.

we have been lulled like the herds of lemmings that we are,
into an accident waiting for a freight train.

the enemies of freedom have drawn a line in the sand of time.....

any rogue wave can, at any time, change the perspective of every
sentient being on earth, in an instant.....the line has been
split into a chasm of chaos.

what is your perspective, and where will you put it when

CHAOS AND FLUX come to kix some bux????

cherokee!; ) friend-of-the-wind, sender and receiver of smoke-signals,
and driver of the ssmfat


(Thu Aug 07 1997 18:48)
""Reason Returns, Just In Time""

Is the U.S. Bond market encountering "indigestion" ?
Is the U.S. Dollar @ 'exhaustion' ?
Is the S&P approaching it ?
Did the Comex Aug. gold contract close @ a new low, yesterday, while Silver, the Xau, Platinum, Paladium ... did not? ... And thus did not confirm the recent downtrend; but instead, signal a change in trend, and a new bull-chapter, for gold & silver related investments ... ( ? ) .

Who was it who said: "Pride goeth before the fall." ...?
( from Inv. Business Daily, 8/7/97, p. B1: )
"Fed Critics Cancel Meeting"
"The Fed and its policy-setting Federal Open Market Committee are doing such a good job that the gadfly Shadow Open Market Committee has decided to cancel its usual September meeting, the SOMC's leader announced. The Shadow group of monetary-oriented economists has met every six months since September 1973 ( ! ) . But its chairman, Allan Meltzer, states in an Aug. 1 letter: 'Currently we see no reason to meet.' "
Now, isn't this curious; sort of like: 'as Nero fiddles, Rome burns'. Isn't it even more curious that when the economy is going all to hell ( --as it will be, again, and soon ) ; everyone has someone to blame. And when the economy is growing, or appears to be so; eager voices abound to take credit for it, &/or pat one another on the back -- for the feigned credit due, and/or otherwise, willingly look the other way.

So, as 'mother-nature', pushed once more to the limit, loses patience with our folly, one more time; reason will return, but only with considerable surprise, and pain, once again. Markets out of balance, out of 'rhyme' with reality, will correct themselves, in this time.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 18:49)
BW: I knew someone would catch my mistake. I should have said Silver
Eagles at 50 cents over dealer cost. Sometimes I think that nature
endowed me with above average mistakes.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:00)
BYRON: Here is your Catalyst:
1. Siamese 2. Persian 3. Manx
Let me know if you need a dogalyst too.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:09)
Bank of Korea to supply 4.3 Trillion Won in August. Can anyone recommend and good Korean Paper and Ink stocks to me?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:09)
Miro: It may be your HO, but I have saved it. Just keep us posted as things go along to that great millenial party. Those of us that like to speculate in the true sense of the word will love the volatility as long as we are kept well informed by those struggling with the problem. I believe you did say you work in this field; I look forward to your future posts. Thanks.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:11)
Donald, how about HepCat, that was a catalyst indeed!: )

George Cole
(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:14)
The majors and the minors
Donald and DJ: Thanks for the kudos! By month's end we shall know whether they are deserved.

I now repeat a statement from an earlier post. Don't be short gold when the dollar tops out!

The action today was very encouraging, but still too early to say with certainty that the tide has turned. XAU needs to break out with conviction and on heavy volume. Today's volume was about average. Genuine gold bulls always are accompanied by heavy volume in ALL the majors and many of the minors. I think we will see this soon, but no cigar yet.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:15)
Donald, one more word after many years as a dog and cat fancier I believe Himalayans are the most personable and lovable cats I have ever had the pleasure to fancy. I am way off the subject !: ) )

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:19)
@ The Cat's Meow:
Donald: I'll take whatever works!!...I noticed some Las Vegas Gold Show news on DBC. I'm at a text only computer right now so I don't have a direct URL. But at click on DBC News. Next click on DBC Stockwatch and then "Gold in Las Vegas". ...This I picked up from SI don't know if it will work:

George Cole
(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:26)
nitty gritty
John Disney: Is this the "nitty gritty" in SA

South Africa's Monopolies
Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:16:49 -0400

I mentioned earlier the frequent reports in the world press that
South Africa is one of the world's most thoroughly monopolized countries,
i.e., that 5 corporations there account for some 80% of its national income.
Janine Erasmus of the Development Bank of South Africa--she doesn't tell us
whether it is owned by one of those 5 corporate giants--takes issue with
that figure.

In the New York Times of 3/2/96 ( p. 21 ) , the account begins this
way: "The South African economy is Teddy Roosevelt's nightmare--what
America might look like if the trusts had never been busted... Nearly 80% of
private industry is controlled by 5 super-conglomerates. Cartels in some
industries, like diamonds, operate openly. In staples like beer and sugar,
1 or 2 producers dominate the market and set prices. Goods that Americans
take for granted, from steaks to new cars to televisions, are so expensive
that the average South African cannot afford them."

The country is fortunate in one respect: It has a researcher--one
somewhat reminiscent of our Ralph Nader--who puts out each year a "fat book"
that reports on the status of South Africa's monopolies, Robin McGregor.
Entitled "Who Owns Whom," Mr. McGregor's annual publication is said to be
the "standard reference work on South African business." According to the
Times: "It is dull reading, and the way he compiles it is prosaic. He buys
one share in every company in southern Africa, collecting all the annual
reports and poring over them. He also clips virtually every article in the
nation's financial press. With this information, he is able to pierce the
ranks of dummy companies--450 at last count--that rich South Africans erect
to conceal what they own."

The result he reports from the country's "concentrated ownership" is
"price-fixing, excessive secrecy, stultifying bureaucracy, lackluster
research, protectionist tariffs." Its biggest company, the Anglo American
Corporation, "oversees the world diamond cartel, mines much of the world's
gold and generates 25% of the nation's gross domestic product." Anglo,
"controlled by the Oppenheimer family of South Africa, "owns the De Beers
and Minorco mining companies; First National, the country's biggest bank;
Southern Life, one of the biggest insurers; numerous office parks, and at
least one significant player in every sector of the economy." "They own
their own suppliers: steel, tools, explosives, even paint. Their
subsidiaries have so little competition that they aren't efficient... You
look at the streets--people go home at half-past 4 o'clock. There's no
competitiveness. There aren't any entrepreneurs." As a former manager of a
small sugar mill, "I was negotiating for apple cartons with 3 supplies. The
quotes I got were the same down to the 7th decimal place. They didn't even
try to disguise it."

Mr. McGregor, "who espouses very American ideas like aggressive
antitrust laws," believed in 1996 that "there is a new wind blowing in Mr.
Mandela's government," that "there will be antitrust laws, and the
conglomerates will unbundle." He couldn't have been more wrong. Why would
South Africa's 5 great monopolies, with their vast wealth, allow something
so trifling as a political revolution to rupture their vast flows of wealth?
They didn't. They bought Mandela's incoming government--by making "instant
millionaires" of his political lieutenants.

This story is told in the New York Times of 9/24/96 ( p. C1 ) . Those
5 corporations that control 80% of South Africa's economy promptly devised
an ingenious scheme to continue their monopolies under black rule: The
entire black LEADERSHIP--several thousand people--was individually "sold"
large blocks of corporate stock at a 10% "discount" with "payment" for those
shares "deferred." In short, the country's new black leadership--virtually
all now millionaires--was neatly "co-opted," BRIBED into preserving and
protecting the very same monopolies the nation had endured under apartheid.
There will be no antitrust in South Africa. Its monopolies endure. Making
millionaires of a few thousand black leaders is a trifling "cost of doing
business," one that lets the billions keep flowing in to a handful of
families. Is Mandela personally "on the take" from the infamous 5? It
doesn't matter. He's allowed them to buy his government. Monopoly wins in
South Africa.

Charles Mueller, Editor

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:30)
Statement by the Federal Reserve Bank on Y2K.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:34)
@ The Pulbic Library
Donald: I was able to locate that Speicaly Report from the Gold Show In Las Vegas at the URL I picked up from the SI Forum. Still need to click on "Gold In Las Vegas" button. ( ^-^ ) Meow.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:35)
Yo Cherokee: The Chinese navy ain't ready for the U.S fleet. They can modernize for another 50 years and still not be ready. Any encounter with the U.S. Navy will be exciting, brutal, nasty and short. Go Squids.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:36)
It's good to see cherokee is back sending us smoke signals! Missed your posts.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:41)
VRONSKY: This URL will give you access to Central Bank websites all over the world.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:48)
@ And Further:
Donald: Also, one more thing, when you get to that report from the gold show and as you get to the end, you will see a highlighted Special Report. Click on that and it will give you another and different report from the Gold Show. Hope this works. These "text" only internet computers are dinasours!!...: (

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:53)
1+1= 2 or 4 (your choice)
John Disney - I know I should just accept your last cost numbers for the rustplats group and leave it at that. I'm sure many Kitco-ites have had enough. But being me, I keep trying to reconcile all the various numbers you have posted, without success.

Take Rustenburg as an example. You can calculate the total cost of all platinum mined, after credit for the by-product metals two different ways, but the results should be the same. All references to ounces are platinum ounces only.

1 ) 1058R/oz x 1.5Moz = 1587MR

2 ) 200R/ton x 16.75Mtons = 3350MR

If 1 ) is correct, then either the cost in Rands/ton is overstated by roughly a factor of 2, or the number of tons mined is overstated by a factor of 2.

If 2 ) is correct, assuming the number of ounces is correct, the cost/oz is understated by a factor of 2.

I quit. My head hurts. I'll wait until I see an annual report.

Re: s/d, I think you are the right track. If you could expand this to fill 20 pages and add some flowery prose, you too could sell it for $5,000. Easier than trying to make money playing these crazy markets.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 19:57)
( Comment by Donald. If these guys are seriously involved in the gold market there is no way you are going to find out about it )
Agreement between the Swiss
Federal Council and the Bank
for International Settlements to
determine the Bank's legal
status in Switzerland

( of 10th February 1987 )

The Swiss Federal Council
of the one part, and
The Bank for International Settlements
of the other part

Having regard to the Convention of 20th January 1930 respecting the
Bank for International Settlements, the Constituent Charter and Statutes
of the Bank, and the Protocol of 30th July 1936 regarding the
immunities of the Bank for International Settlements;
Desiring, in the light of the practice followed since 1930, to settle their
mutual relationships in a Headquarters Agreement;
Have agreed upon the following provisions:

I. Status, privileges and immunities of the Bank

Article 1
Legal personality

The Swiss Federal Council acknowledges the international legal
personality and the legal capacity within Switzerland of the Bank for
International Settlements ( hereinafter referred to as "the Bank" ) .

Article 2
Freedom of action of the Bank

1. The Swiss Federal Council shall guarantee to the Bank the autonomy
and freedom of action to which it is entitled as an international
2. In particular, it shall grant to the Bank, as well as to its member
institutions in their relations with the Bank, absolute freedom to hold
meetings, including freedom of discussion and decision.

Article 3

1. The buildings or parts of buildings and surrounding land which,
whoever may be the owner thereof, are used for the purposes of the
Bank shall be inviolable. No agent of the Swiss public authorities may
enter therein without the express consent of the Bank. Only the
President, the General Manager of the Bank, or their duly authorised
representative shall be competent to waive such inviolability.
2. The archives of the Bank and, in general, all documents and any data
media belonging to the Bank or in its possession, shall be inviolable at all
times and in all places.
3. The Bank shall exercise supervision of and police power over its

Article 4
Immunity from jurisdiction and execution

1. The Bank shall enjoy immunity from criminal and administrative
jurisdiction, save to the extent that such immunity is formally waived in
individual cases by the President, the General Manager of the Bank, or
their duly authorised representative.
2. Disputes arising in matters of employment relations between the Bank
and its Officials or former Officials, or persons claiming through them,
shall be settled by the Administrative Tribunal of the Bank. The Board of
Directors of the Bank shall determine the constitution of the
Administrative Tribunal, which shall have exclusive and final jurisdiction.
Matters of employment relations shall be deemed to include all questions
relating to the interpretation or application of contracts between the
Bank and its Officials concerning their employment, of the regulations to
which the said contracts refer, and in particular of the provisions
governing the Bank's pension scheme and other welfare arrangements
provided by the Bank.
3. In all other civil and commercial matters the Bank may be proceeded
against in any court of competent jurisdiction, save in those cases in
which provision for arbitration has been or shall have been made.
4. The assets of the Bank may be subject to measures of compulsory
execution for enforcing monetary claims. On the other hand, all deposits
entrusted to the Bank, all claims against the Bank and the shares issued
by the Bank shall, without the prior agreement of the Bank, be immune
from seizure or other measures of compulsory execution and
sequestration, particularly of attachment within the meaning of Swiss


Article 9
Free disposal of funds and freedom to conduct operations

1. The Bank may receive, hold, convert and transfer all funds, gold,
currency, cash and other transferable securities, and dispose freely
thereof, and generally carry out without any restriction all the operations
permitted by its Statutes, both within Switzerland and in its relations with
foreign countries.
2. As regards its operations on the Swiss market, the Bank shall
nevertheless be obliged to confer with the Swiss National Bank in
accordance with Article 19 of the Bank's Statutes.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 20:01)
a recent comment by a top general in china
says it all. he said---

that china had been quietly preparing for a
naval war with the us. they have acquired
a capability in both armament and technology
that is close to their future adversary. he also stated that
there would be another conflict ( war ) which
would prevent the us from maintaining dual
fronts with any degree of success. china has
recently demonstrated her capabilities around
taiwan with the world as her audience. why?
china has the resources, manpower, and historical
scars to enable her to begin her quest for
the seat that now sits vacant-

steely-dan warned of riding the dragon-

this dragon will not be saddled nor riden,
as they hold the reigns and cat-o-nine-tails.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 20:02)
BYRON: I was able to read it, as will everyone ( but you? ) . Did you want me to lift the whole article and post it also?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 20:04)
@ Good Night:
Donald: That last one did it. Now I got a headache. I'm out of here. Nite all.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Aug 07 1997 20:06)
catchup ketchup
DAVID: Markets out of rhyme will correct themselves in time. EB: I did get a flashback once walking down 5th Avenue at around 30th street in Manhattan one hot summer day. I think it may have been the smell of deisel fuel what did it. I'm ok., thank God. I did door gunner duty on some hueys only for a while. Did other things along the Cambodian border. Thanks for thinkin' of us vets. Any war. It's all shit. But it's life, I guess. LELAND: that was the fabulous Shel Silverstein cartoon "Now here's my plan." A great graphic wit, Shel.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 20:17)
Albania housed secret CIA spy plane base. Clinton implies financial help will be provided.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 20:18)
Trader says The missing word for the stock market is awesome... which best describes extraordinary upside action. It seems Public views market profits as ENTITLEMENTS - Must RELOAD Digest page:

(Thu Aug 07 1997 20:19)
@ Still Here:
Donald: One foot out the door. No thanks. I've printed both articles for reading later. Now really gone ~poof~

(Thu Aug 07 1997 20:20)
Japan to extend up to $7 bln in aid to
Japan has decided to contribute a maximum $7 billion in lending through
the Export-Import Bank of Japan to a $20 billion international support
package for Thailand, government sources said. Details of the relief
package, designed to stabilize the beleaguered Thai currency, were
completed Wednesday.

The International Monetary Fund will offer $4 billion in standby credit,
while the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank will each put up
$1 billion in medium- to long-term credit.

The Ex-Im Bank will offer a $6 billion loan, bringing the total to the $12
billion minimum amount Thailand said it would need.

Private financial institutions, including Japanese ones, are prepared to put
up another $5 billion, the sources said.

Japanese officials plan to meet later this week in Tokyo with counterparts
from other Asian countries to enlist their financial aid for Thailand, the
sources added.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 20:24)
Gunrunner, YO take a look at this UZI newsies
How about it, can I reserve one?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 20:27)
Thailand's rescue...

a few fingers in the dike
of the earthen dam ....

relentless - ?

giving way - ?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 21:03)
EBN Gold down .80....

(Thu Aug 07 1997 21:09)
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )

FSAGX looking GOOD!

(Thu Aug 07 1997 21:22)
CHEROKEE: The Chinese general you are quoting says it all. Many of course will not believe these Chinese designs as some have already posted here. The politicians will continue to cut our defenses. Others will find reasons to support them. Too bad.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 21:36)
Dr. Randel Burns provides an overview of building a precious metals collection of various forms of bullion. He gives useful tips & caveats for serious collector. Interesting read:

(Thu Aug 07 1997 21:41)
Welcome back dude!....ain't Steely Dan great....

Lan Man
(Thu Aug 07 1997 22:05)
@Closing Bell
COMEX and NYMEX precious metals futures ended mostly higher
Thursday, after expectations for more losses were confounded early
by continued buying by one or two investment banks, forcing locals
and funds to cover short positions.

"Its pretty nervous out there, people are a little bit confused at
these levels ( in gold ) ," Credit Lyonnais Rouse New York chief
bullion dealer Scott Mehlman said. "Overall the market is still
looking for lower prices, but people are less willing to stick
their necks out on the short side until things settle down a bit,"
he said. "Gold looks like its trying to build a base around $320
( in COMEX December gold ) , with $317-318 on the bottom and $324-325
on the top and I wouldn't be surprised to see any of those prices

North American gold equities, sometimes a leading indicator for
the gold price, continued to recover Thursday, with the
Philadelphia Stock Exchange's gold and silver mining sector index
( .XAU ) edging up to a session high at 99.05 points, its highest
level since June 20.

COMEX September silver ended 4.2 cents at $4.375 an ounce, after
finding some support Wednesday around $4.30, following a slide
earlier in the week from over $4.50. The spot gold/silver ratio
was little changed around 73.2-to-1.

NYMEX platinum and palladium futures also found some support after
two days of sharp falls. The sharp downward correction in PGM
prices this week was not unexpected, analysts said, as PGM prices
had rallied quickly in July, taking palladium prices back up to 17
year highs and platinum prices back up to near the seven year
highs seen June.

But there was still an acute shortage of metal in the physical
market, which was not being alleviated by the modest amounts of
metal coming out of Russia. Russia resumed exports of PGMs last
month, after a six month suspension.

For the full text story, see

COMEX - 100 troy oz _ dollars per troy oz.
Aug97 318.10 322.50 318.10 321.50 +3.30 414.50 314.60
Oct97 320.00 324.70 320.00 323.70 +3.30 426.50 316.80
Dec97 322.40 327.00 322.40 325.80 +3.30 456.50 318.50
Feb98 325.00 327.90 325.00 327.80 +3.20 424.00 322.50
Jun98 331.00 331.00 331.00 332.00 +3.10 470.00 327.50
Est. Sales 21175

COMEX - 5,000 troy oz. _ cents per troy oz.
Sep97 431.00 439.00 431.00 437.50 +4.20 576.00 418.00
Dec97 437.50 445.50 437.50 443.90 +4.30 701.90 424.00
Mar98 449.00 451.00 448.00 450.10 +4.30 573.00 432.00
May98 452.50 452.50 452.50 454.10 +4.30 564.00 437.00
Jul98 455.00 455.00 455.00 458.10 +4.30 610.00 438.00
Est. Sales 6123

NYMEX - 100 troy oz _ dollars per troy oz
Sep97 207.00 213.00 205.25 212.50 _3.10 227.60 128.75
Dec97 199.00 203.50 195.60 201.50 _6.10 219.60 120.25
Est. Sales 1339

COMEX - 50 troy oz _ dollars per troy oz.
Oct97 426.00 437.00 426.00 432.60 +1.60 463.70 355.50
Jan98 418.50 426.00 418.50 423.10 +1.60 454.00 360.00
Est. Sales 3710

(Thu Aug 07 1997 22:05)
Cherokee: Ominous news. What is the source of the Chinese generals speech?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 22:25)
Does anyone know how to convert an Excel chart into a Kitco-compatible chart? I have a very interesting chart I'd like to share with you.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 22:35)

My take on the yellow stuff, is that most of
the downside risk has been taken out, by the low
commodity prices and the selling pressure by the various
countries and banks. My OPINION at the moment is that
it's a good time to buy. I have very substantial positions
in FSAGX and FDPMX. But I think FSAGX is the better choice
of these two funds.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 22:35)
unrelated to gold
Where can I find the latest price of copper.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 22:56)
Asia is back!
PA and PL moving up smartly in the asian markets. Gold stabile. Check out Bart's new charts.

Any help re: Excel charts?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 23:00)
? and a comment
ALL: What's with Gary North "story"?CAPNKEV & CHEROKEE: Just completed 1200 mile trip thru Illinois and Indiana ( top to bottom ) , with a foray into Ohio...corn crop extremely thick, a little dry, but if the weather cooperates with a little rain it's going to be one heck of a harvest ( here in the Mid-West ) ...barring disease of course. BART: That's GOLDen ear corn of course, muchas gracias!

(Thu Aug 07 1997 23:00)
@the scene
Earl -- You've got mail. No postage due.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 23:01)
You can use the edit function on the toolbar and copy the graph. Once you have copied it, you can paste it onto a graphic viewer program such as Lview or Darkroom. If you don't have one of these programs, e-mail it to me and I will convert it to the right format and e-mail it back to you. Or you can go to http:\\ and find a graphic viewer that will save the graph in a gif or jpg format. Good luck


(Thu Aug 07 1997 23:02)
That should be

Strad Master
(Thu Aug 07 1997 23:07)
Asian quotes?
DJ: I can't help you with the charts but maybe you can help me. Where are you getting your Asian Market PA and Pl quotes? Thanks in advance.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 23:08)
Will we test $320 Dec gold on friday?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 23:37)
SCHIPPI: I must respectfully agree and disagree with you in regards to FSAGX vs FDPMX. No question that FSAGX has strongly outperformed FDPMX over the last year to year and a half, BUT, when the trend changes and gold begins a meaningful rally, so will the trend change for which fund will outperform. The South African exposure will give FDPMX an added boost when the golden bear turns into a bull, IMHO.

(Thu Aug 07 1997 23:41)
EBN Gold down .80 and silver @ unch.....Good night ALL...

(Thu Aug 07 1997 23:45)
@the scene
GVC -- I know that we called a short term turn in the gold for Tuesday, which happened, but I'm curious what your take on it's longevity is. I think just tomorrow and maybe a piece of Monday short term, then see where it goes from there. Maybe see a high near 330 ( +/- a few dimes ) before a fall-back. Your thoughts?

(Thu Aug 07 1997 23:53)
Charts and quotes
Machf15 - Thanks. I'll give it a try. May get it done tonight, or may have to participate in a late happy hour.

Stad Master - Right here on Kitco. Bart has added them. Just go the normal 3-day gold chart. Click on Platinum or Palladium ( or Silver ) in the title. It's great to be able to watch the action as the overseas markets open. Note the violent action on the Tokyo opening ( 1-hour before Hong Kong opens ) .

(Thu Aug 07 1997 23:57)
St(r)ad Master
Sorry, having trouble with my rrrrrrr's tonight.