Yellow Jacket -- Since you haven't 'said' anything, I'll have to consider your posting as 'electronic noise'. Being an Engineer, I'm sure you have an idea of what that is. Now, if you might post something of particular meaning to the markets, and stop lambasting those who are trying to....

The Human will,that force unseen,The offspring of a deathless soul,Can hew its way to any goal "Thought walls of granite intervene".Happy Trails.

The Human will,that force unseen,The offspring of a deathless soul,Can hew its way to any goal "Thought walls of granite intervene".Happy Trails.

Regarding talk of CB sales, why they effect the market, who is selling, and why:

I reported last night that a client ( worth $100 million +++ ) just returned from Europe and offered the possibility that France would be a seller of gold. This was just a supposition of his, as is my own belief that Germany will be ( has been ) a big seller this year.

Some have asked where I come by this information. For the most part, my contention that European CBs are selling is based on a lot of information from a variety of different sources. Some of those sources can be found in the links on Kitco's Market Update page. For those of you that have never followed the FNW link, get in the habit of getting the mid session ( about 10 am PST ) and the closing report ( about 2:30 PST ) of NY Metals. These reports can spend a lot of words to say very little - like some others on this page. There are 60+ brokers at my company and we all have our own sources in the markets. We are constantly comparing information to see if we can separate the chaff. Together, the whole, represents hundred of man-years of experience in these markets. Additionally, I have my own sources on the trading floors and in markets abroad. When taken in total, and viewed with an experienced eye, one can often formulate an accurate forecast of events to come.

All my talk of CB sales is based on this method of deduction. I have not stated definitively that France is the seller. I still think Germany is the culprit. As for the why, I have posted here many times in the past my reasons for believing that European CB sales will continue through the end of the year, so I will sum up with as few words as possible tonight.

The EMU has certain deficit to GDP ratio requirements for all member nations. Some countries are having problems meeting those requirements. They take a look around and ask themselves "how can we raise some quick cash? Aha! Look at this gold we have been sitting on for all these decades with no return. Let's dump some now and get the books spruced up. We can always buy it back later, probably at a lower price."

There is no mass manipulation to control the price of gold. Nations can't even mount a good conspiracy within their own borders, let alone cooperate in a massive multinational price fixing scheme. As for supply, when considered, supply should be the chief reason for gold's demise. There are massive amounts of gold in every country on earth. Mining techniques are getting more efficient with each passing day. Cost of production is dropping. There is more gold above ground than at any point in history.

Gold is mined for accumulation. It is refined and then stuck in a vault. Very little gold is consumed compared to that which is stored. Please do not try to refute this by including mint production of bullion coins in consumption statistics. Gold coins are stored forever. They just change hands. My father e-mailed an interesting quote that has some bearing here. It is from "My New Fortune", by Andrew Tobias, Random House, 1997: "Digging for gold is a waste. After all, gold's value lies in its scarcity. Digging up more only makes it less scarce."


Allen ID#246224: posted an excellent summation on why a country would sell gold. For simplicity sake I will reposted here:

"CB gold sales, to my mind, are always motivated by self interest of the country involved. I can hardly believe in a world embracing, centrally controlled scheme to suppress gold. To me that doesn't jibe with national sovereignty and power. So I must ask what is this nation's interest in selling its hard earned reserves. It seems to me that Italy's interest is plainly a matter of inclusion in the EMU confab. If that is so, I'm interested to know if their position and need for selling action was public knowledge for some time. If not then there may be other CB's which might do similar things in order to enter the EMU on the first round. This should be an interesting quarter if that's the case."


Additioaly, MoreGold ( @CBs ) ID#348286: Who obviously has his nose to the wind posted this:
"A certain entity has been very active on the sell side the last few weeks. They have been previously linked with CB sales. Rumour is they are acting for a CB again, and this has been mentioned more than once in the media. This fits in with the sluggish trading, and inability to rally, very similar to the conditions just before the last announcement of the Aussi sale, and the downward spiral. This market is super secretive you have to get your info wherever you can, and do a lot of reading in between lines."


The information is there, for anyone who looks without an agenda. If you just accept what you find, deductive logic and experience can take you most of the way. I will state again for the hundredth time, I don't care where it goes. I trade both sides of the market; long and short. I have been short gold for the better part of a year, only making long trades in the whites. By the way, I missed a fantastic short in silver last week, anyone could see it would try to fill the gap. I'm looking for another .10 down. If that holds, I'll look at long silver.



General ( To RJ re: Nick Vecchio ) ID#365216:
Gen-
The term you used would best describe Nick. He is one of the straightest shooters I have ever met. Not give to excitability or rash moves. He is quietly competent and very experienced. He has been with my firm for 15 or 16 years. You've got a good broker there. Good luck.


Bernatz de Ventadorm-
Have you never HEARD of the HERD mentality, by dam? Those who HEAR all is up tend to HERD to the source. This, my fine and wise friend, is what is known as "HEARD MENTALITY." An alternative explanation is that I simply cannot proofread my own stuff. I know what I wrote and what I am trying to say, and I often see the correct word right there where the incorrect word lies.

Where have you been? You are exactly what this site needs in these time of petty blowhards with no money telling the rest how fullofshit we all are. Please, your observations are needed now


Nick -@ The Jabberstock-
Inspired brilliance. Your posts have been some of the most informative and friendly posts this site has seen. I am very interested in your sea going days. I would like to ask you of some your times at sea during great storms. This would be an enormous help on a project I am currently working on. Please send your e-mail address to rjd@pacbell.net if you would be willing to take some time to share your experiences. Thanks, in advance. Keep posting, mate. The late shift needs more souls and your presence has made the late nights at Kitco vastly more interesting.

JTF-
You didn't miss anything at all. I posted a couple weeks ago that silver looked like it was going down. Whenever a range of trading is skipped by a big move, the market has a tendency to go back and "fill the gap". This is a rule of thumb but again, only another of the many patterns that these market give us. The potential for a test of the highs of February was a strong possibility, so I had no courage of my convictions to short at 5.30. I am still feeling a bit stung by the 100,000 ounces I shorted at 4.78, which I will bail out of ASAP. If silvers settles in the gap, I'll start looking at longs.

Sometimes-You never get there?

ToughGuy/ Panda et al.
Thats it! Plastic is the new commodity behind all currency. Have you ever thought of how much oil it takes to make all of those credit cards. 200,000,000* people X 10 cards/ person X 2.13 X 3.38 = 143,988,000,000 sq. in. or 1,000,000,000 sq. ft. or 23,000 Acres. Price of oil will go to $40 when they start making the YR 2000 Cards. By the way the cards are 1/32  thick someone wants to figure the volume.

If we put them end to end they will stretch 676,000,000 ins. or 56333333 ft. Thats 10,000 miles or back and forth across the USA more than a few times.

Now at $5,000.00/ card X 200,000,000* X10/ person = $10,000,000,000,000.00


Now 10% of these 200,000,000* have 2nd mortgages of at least $15,000.00 average balance that equals $300,000,000,000.00 This give us a grand total of $10,300,000,000,000.00

By the way remember we have not added in the 30% increase by margin.

Now these people have this money invested in mutual funds which are using derivatives to further amplify the total amount wagered on this bubble.

In the first place, where has all this money come from. Where in the heck did the banks get this much money to lend. Their savings deposits are the lowest in years.

I wasnt aware that they had printed that much money. Have they been disseminating misinformation again. Have they been monetorizing ( sp ) the debt. We were warned almost ten years ago, by Rabi Batra and others, to watch and beware when they start moneterizing ( sp ) the debt. They will not have to worry about it if the stock market drops it will all just disappear.

We all should be on our hands and knees praying to God for a miracle that will get us through this mess. I pray that I am wrong.

*I used 200,000,000 people for lack of a better number - there are people with more than 10 cards and there are dead people who still have cards that are active.

Good Night All - God Bless

RJ -- Yupper! Paper WILL 'reign' ( rain ) right up to the end. The effect of possible gold sales? Who knows? 310 gold? I don't think so this month. Maybe 315 but not 310. I just can't find it on my charts. But I don't do 'forcasting'. I only do 'lines'. Sometimes they do get broken. Also, I'm not omniscient like some, so what the hell do I know anyway? In any case, since I do not have any pre-concieved notions, I'll be more aptly prepared to take much better advantage of whatever transpires! ( I notice that even THAT simplistic attitude was not particularly followed on the AVID site today! People not even following simple support/resistance! Jeesh! ) The news will FOLLOW the price! When will people get this in their heads? WATCH the price! THAT IS THE NEWS! At least, all the news I need!

Auric, Nick, JTF, Colleen, auroelf, others i might have missed and to those who e-mailed this salty ol' aurator a heartfelt@GOLDen_THANKS

Bart -- You REALLY need to fix this 'time-warp' problem! Make it so, if I might ask! Salute, and thanks!

End of Day and Delayed* quotes for over 20,000 WorldWide Stocks in 40 Countries.
http://www.stocksmart.com/foreign.html

Insider and Beneficial Ownership Trading - SEC 4 and 144 Filings
Form 144 - Notice of intent by insiders to sell restricted stock. Form 4 - Change in beneficial ownership by officers or shareholders.

http://www.stocksmart.com/ows-bin/owa/insdr.g?ctype1=S&crange=6+Days&cname=&csort=DT

Who's been selling out the farm?

Nick@aussie - goto http://www.tucows.com and download Graphics Workshop from their image viewer collection, and WS_FTP to use to send the files to Kitco. Graphic Workshop converts anything to anything. WS_FTP works for me ( on Internet Explorer 3.0 vintage AOL ) . Good luck.

One final comment before I call it a night; Nick @ Aussie, I think you have a lot on the ball, and I do not recall others having particularly having said so! Therefore, I shall!

RJ, I think you do to, but you better watch how high you lift 'dem skirts'! Zhere be a lot of 'takers' out zhere!

All -- DO NOT throw your caution to the winds! Not yet! Not in the futures at least, in my not so humble opinion in this case. I do not judge the metals stocks. I'll leave that to others. I'll simply say that in ALL cases though, WATCH the numbers against the support/resistance areas and the trend lines on ALL the charts! They should tell you all that is necessary to make money. And if you can't make heads or tails of a particular stock or commodity in that regard for a time, then don't bother with it. There are many others that will!

Hey! Anybody draw a line across the two previous 'tops' of Dec copper? I 'wonder' where they 'came across'! That line just couldn't have come across the two previous recent highs, could it? NAH! That would be just simply to damned easy! HAR! Keep it simple stupid. I LOVE that 'KISS' philosophy! Now we watch and see how it treats its previous numbers! Good, bad, or ugly!

Nick@aussie - goto http://www.tucows.com and download Graphics Workshop form their image viewer collection, and WS_FTP to use to send the files to Kitco. Graphic Workshop converts anything to anything. WS_FTP works for me ( on Internet Explorer 3.0 vintage AOL ) . Good luck

Sorry for the double post. I didn't notice we were past the timewarp witching hour and thought my post had disappeared.

Tobias sez: "Digging up gold is a waste. After all gold's value lies in its scarcity. Digging up more only makes it less scarce.
Jack sez: "That printing up excessive amounts of paper currencies doesn't make paper less scarce, cause all the lemmings want to drown in it".
Jack sez: "Printing more paper only makes it ( scarce ) ; as it's more difficult to produce ( HARHAR ) , than the simple act of ripping up the bowels of the earth. Are the hounds rising from these mined out scars, or through the printing presses, to devour us? Anyone get my drift?
Just luv those 1000+ word commentaries, some sense, much ruppah and lots of bull.

Just letting everyone know that Bart is aware of the "time warp" problem. I sent him the HTML source of one of the "time warp" pages that I downloaded in the hope it would help him solve the problem. I can live with four hours of weird posting behavior than have this wonderful site collapse on us ( remember October 1st? ) . Hang in there and be patient. Bart hasn't let us down yet.

Yes YellowSon........but the masses are the masses,and your analYitical
mind may be your undoing.As you sit in bewilderment at the non-logic
afforded this world,you find yourself alone holding nothing but your
thoughts.Ahhhhh life eh!Shine on..Shine On Harvey Moon...Up In The Sky.

Good morning/evening all. Nikkei and Hang Seng down
about 1.2%. http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u I got some vibes of my own on my Homestake 15 Calls, which expire today. I foresee HM closing at 14, and Gold closing at 3-2-5! ( DOH! )

In today's controlled economic atmosphere, anything is possible; that is "1 is equal to 5", cause they tell so.

I just got through scrolling through all the scrappines going on tonight with regard to astrological predictions, psycihics, etc. and I was reminded of a silly little joke that migh serve to diffuse everyone's passions just a bit:

What do you call a midget palmreader who's just escaped from jail?

ANSWER: A small medium at large.

Sorry...

I just got through scrolling through all the scrappines going on tonight with regard to astrological predictions, psycihics, etc. and I was reminded of a silly little joke that migh serve to diffuse everyone's passions just a bit:

What do you call a midget palmreader who's just escaped from jail?

ANSWER: A small medium at large.

Sorry...

Buy peanuts at spot and partake in their delicacies, the gases that you will blow-off will definately cap DOW 8300 as the 20th centuries high.

LGB - Is there anything that you cannot or have not done? You are truly amazing. I would love to meet you if only to walk in your great and HUGE shadow. He is LGB, super-hero!!

one more thing... Boorish comes to mind... Condescending another... Patronizing to go one step farther and then I will stop...

Now I must thank you so kindly for posting such great information 2-day. My life is now complete. Can you...will you part with some more VAST knowledge oh greatest-One. The minnions await...

away...to Monterey to pray to Him...and await the wit...or whatever...


"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good". confucious

"Time is that wherin there is opportunity, and opportunity is that wherin there is no great time".

Now...I'll say it again...

It's TIME to place your shorts...or miss the elevator...

away...to watch time go BYE...
$

First post of the new cyberday?? 6:10 pm e.coast Oz time--4:10am e.coast Yank time. Bart--don't worry about those 4 hours mate, we'll figure it out.

To my N.American brethren--will the XAU neckline at 102.50 hold?? If not, where to??

Nick@Aussie-- I was going to comment on your Trojan effort over the last 24 hours--but that has different connotations in different countries--so thanks for the herculean effort, mate--lot's of good URLs--will take me weeks to explore them all.

Precious Jewel--can aur@ator come out to play??

colleen--GWYW

RTZ has insiders at LMBA. Cant say who. Its a cert! We complain about nepatism in asia but we cant see it when it raises its ugly face
in the land of marmalade and tea. Check out Bahama banana.

/.\

J.A.Mitchener-- I spent many happy hours with you, mate. May you R.I.P.

Should at least spell your name correctly.

Nick for a little, but BJ, being a female is governed by the moon. Mes Amigos, those Westies were pretty loose "last night" huh?
Just as well they're not affected by the moon eh?

nothing crazy last night eh?

Nick@Aussie you will be aware, i think of the Maori fishing calendar. Like the Maori planting calendar it is a lunar calendar. I've been looking for an URL, sorry, perhaps someone else?

Also, a v good mate worked on the prawners up there in the early 70's.. Truth is, everyone in New Zild knows someone who knows....enjoyed your tales. Just share them, mate, don't just let RJ see them.

BTW Mike Sheller THAT speach has to be done here one day soon. thanks.


more to follow...;- )

"Dividend yield on S & P lowest in history at 1.6% compared with 2.6% at 1987 peak." Kaplan always a good read.

http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/4915/index.html

Nick@Aussie-- "Don't come the raw prawn with me, mate" now takes on new meaning!! Things can get pretty wild in bad weather up there. Lot's of blue water guys/gals on this site--so more stories, please!!

Nick for a little, but BJ, being a female is governed by the moon. Mes Amigos, those Westies were pretty loose "last night" huh?
Just as well they're not affected by the moon eh?

nothing crazy last night eh?

Nick@Aussie you will be aware, i think of the Maori fishing calendar. Like the Maori planting calendar it is a lunar calendar. I've been looking for an URL, sorry, perhaps someone else?

Also, a v good mate worked on the prawners up there in the early 70's.. Truth is, everyone in New Zild knows someone who knows....enjoyed your tales. Just share them, mate, don't just let RJ see them.

BTW Mike Sheller THAT speach has to be done here one day soon. thanks.


more to follow...;- )

BJ=PJ sorry darling. ouch

Anyone wanting to follow Nikkei historical data with charts bookmark this site and explore at your leisure.

http://www.nikkei.co.jp/enews/TNKS/stox/bstrend5.html

For Zee Elf

Dear Lady
I am zo afraid zat ah have misleaded tout le monde
to believe zat the French is ma lanquage. Ah try
nevair to speak en zat tongue. Dear lady ah had hoped zat
you may have remembered me from from happy days in
Aquitaine but ah was mistakened. Ah am most at home in
zee language of "Oc" which we called it as we never said
"oui" but "oc" instead. Zeez word "oui" was for zee
tougue of zee dreaded and degenerated parisian Kings and
zair religious accomplices who break down our walls and
persecute us in zee name of religion - but really to take
our money by zee taxe. We were zee Albigensians - zee Cathars.
Our friends were zee Templiers - nice guys - we were all
destroyed by zee founders of zee "modern state"
( zat monsieur wackair of the silly vermont place lak so much ) .
Eef it was not religion zen zair would have been
somezing else - lak killing us to mak us stop smokeeng.
Zey had to destroy us to save us. Governments lak to do
zeze crazee tings.
Even zee revolution change nozzing. We got zee same
guys in different suits. And zat Robspierre - he even mak zat
Gephardt look good.
So ah go mah way in zeze mountains. A leetle Espanol,
some Catalan, Basque ( but ah nevair forgive zem for
what zey deed to ma fran Roland ) .
Ah even help zat Frenchie Cantaloube with zee songs
he steal in zee Massif Central as Ah know a leetle
Auvernois. Ah also advise zat leetle dandy, d'Indy on
his musique when Ah lived in zat area.
Anyway, now ah feel we all know each ozair a leetle
bettair.
Soon ah weell tell more about zee forecast of the
WOP ( Wizards of Pyranees ) as ah SNEAKED into zair
cave last night after zey had left. Ah weel tell you
what ah found. The WOP are confirming zee WC ( Wizards of
California )

LGB.

So, you say you respond to reason, in the spirit of spirited kitco discourse reason me this:

I present 2 Possible refutations to your contention there is no correlation between violence and the lunar cycles. They appear to contradict your position.

The following from Simon Carallans *The Spiral Calendar* First mentioned on this site by aurapooratora on Date: Wed May 14 1997 00:13, and probably by others before.

1.
Arnold Leiber studied the timing of murders and aggressive behaviour in Dade County Florida He found that murders and aggressive behaviour peaked at the full moon ana again immediately after the new moon. ( Leiber arnold. The Lunar Effect, Anchor Press, Secaucus. 1981 ) His work was criticized by other scientists who could not replicate the results. Leiber pointed out that his critics used the time of death, which could be days later, and not the time of *injury* as the basis of their conclusions. It was the time of injury that correlated with the lunar phases. Injusries , presumably are more likely to be sustained when a person is thinking more *emotionally* than *normal*.


2.
And here is one for our crazy canuk cousins who love this lunatic sport...

*Ice Hockey* is a violent sport know for its emotional aggression and fighting. Katzeff ( no relation to upchuck ) reports that a study of the 1976-1977 season of the World Hockey Association showed that the penalty minutes served by players on the night of the full *moon* were 33% higher than the previous nights. ( Katzoff, Paul. Moon Madness. Citadel Press Secaucus 1981 )

ALL

WHAT A CRAZY **LUNATIC** BUNCH YOU WERE YESTERDAY. LOOK AT YOURSELVES.

TELL ME THE MOON HAS NO EFFECT.!!!!

i is sorry i shouted, but, jeez you guys and girls, and some of you think the aurator has outstayed his welcome, eh bien! ( a va elf? ) . Yet it is you who talk *NOW* of the moon, of lunatics, of The day of ATONEMENT.... others were there before....

Many people here Measure and Map and place numbers in tables and Charts and make correlations and believe, and look at the moon, because either your dont know this MEASUREMENT , and Mensuration fetish is a belief system, an ideology, that is by *measuring*, you will understand, and so are slaves to it, or if you are aware you are slaves, because there is nothing else handy that is comprehensible you obey the dictates and measure, and calculate and graph and I appreciate that you do, and i like to see your posts, cos they contain Parts of the understanding and I REALLY THANK YOU for posting the charts, becuase they look so real and tangible,


it is just that maybe there are some things beyond measurement, like the *value* of gold........ hmmm....

Well, perhaps some of the answers are in our language, in the subconscious realm of language, because language is the *metaphor* the exchange of symbols we use to try to explain the universe to each other.

Two peoples, and many peoples, divided by a *common* language....

Think of the GOLD expressions in everyday language that tell the lie of fiat currency. There are dozens, please add your own, they exist just below the level of ordinary awareness, they are almost subliminal , lurking, as it were, ready to pounce to

LGB.

So, you say you respond to reason, in the spirit of spirited kitco discourse reason me this:

I present 2 Possible refutations to your contention there is no correlation between violence and the lunar cycles. They appear to contradict your position.

The following from Simon Carallans *The Spiral Calendar* First mentioned on this site by aurapooratora on Date: Wed May 14 1997 00:13, and probably by others before.

1.
Arnold Leiber studied the timing of murders and aggressive behaviour in Dade County Florida He found that murders and aggressive behaviour peaked at the full moon ana again immediately after the new moon. ( Leiber arnold. The Lunar Effect, Anchor Press, Secaucus. 1981 ) His work was criticized by other scientists who could not replicate the results. Leiber pointed out that his critics used the time of death, which could be days later, and not the time of *injury* as the basis of their conclusions. It was the time of injury that correlated with the lunar phases. Injusries , presumably are more likely to be sustained when a person is thinking more *emotionally* than *normal*.


2.
And here is one for our crazy canuk cousins who love this lunatic sport...

*Ice Hockey* is a violent sport know for its emotional aggression and fighting. Katzeff ( no relation to upchuck ) reports that a study of the 1976-1977 season of the World Hockey Association showed that the penalty minutes served by players on the night of the full *moon* were 33% higher than the previous nights. ( Katzoff, Paul. Moon Madness. Citadel Press Secaucus 1981 )

ALL

WHAT A CRAZY **LUNATIC** BUNCH YOU WERE YESTERDAY. LOOK AT YOURSELVES.

TELL ME THE MOON HAS NO EFFECT.!!!!

i is sorry i shouted, but, jeez you guys and girls, and some of you think the aurator has outstayed his welcome, eh bien! ( a va elf? ) . Yet it is you who talk *NOW* of the moon, of lunatics, of The day of ATONEMENT.... others were there before....

Many people here Measure and Map and place numbers in tables and Charts and make correlations and believe, and look at the moon, because either your dont know this MEASUREMENT , and Mensuration fetish is a belief system, an ideology, that is by *measuring*, you will understand, and so are slaves to it, or if you are aware you are slaves, because there is nothing else handy that is comprehensible you obey the dictates and measure, and calculate and graph and I appreciate that you do, and i like to see your posts, cos they contain Parts of the understanding and I REALLY THANK YOU for posting the charts, becuase they look so real and tangible,


it is just that maybe there are some things beyond measurement, like the *value* of gold........ hmmm....

Well, perhaps some of the answers are in our language, in the subconscious realm of language, because language is the *metaphor* the exchange of symbols we use to try to explain the universe to each other.

Two peoples, and many peoples, divided by a *common* language....

Think of the GOLD expressions in everyday language that tell the lie of fiat currency. There are dozens, please add your own, they exist just below the level of ordinary awareness, they are almost subliminal , lurking, as it were, ready to pounce to

LGB.

So, you say you respond to reason, in the spirit of spirited kitco discourse reason me this:

I present 2 Possible refutations to your contention there is no correlation between violence and the lunar cycles. They appear to contradict your position.

The following from Simon Carallans *The Spiral Calendar* First mentioned on this site by aurapooratora on Date: Wed May 14 1997 00:13, and probably by others before.

1.
Arnold Leiber studied the timing of murders and aggressive behaviour in Dade County Florida He found that murders and aggressive behaviour peaked at the full moon ana again immediately after the new moon. ( Leiber arnold. The Lunar Effect, Anchor Press, Secaucus. 1981 ) His work was criticized by other scientists who could not replicate the results. Leiber pointed out that his critics used the time of death, which could be days later, and not the time of *injury* as the basis of their conclusions. It was the time of injury that correlated with the lunar phases. Injusries , presumably are more likely to be sustained when a person is thinking more *emotionally* than *normal*.


2.
And here is one for our crazy canuk cousins who love this lunatic sport...

*Ice Hockey* is a violent sport know for its emotional aggression and fighting. Katzeff ( no relation to upchuck ) reports that a study of the 1976-1977 season of the World Hockey Association showed that the penalty minutes served by players on the night of the full *moon* were 33% higher than the previous nights. ( Katzoff, Paul. Moon Madness. Citadel Press Secaucus 1981 )

ALL

WHAT A CRAZY **LUNATIC** BUNCH YOU WERE YESTERDAY. LOOK AT YOURSELVES.

TELL ME THE MOON HAS NO EFFECT.!!!!

i is sorry i shouted, but, jeez you guys and girls, and some of you think the aurator has outstayed his welcome, eh bien! ( a va elf? ) . Yet it is you who talk *NOW* of the moon, of lunatics, of The day of ATONEMENT.... others were there before....

Many people here Measure and Map and place numbers in tables and Charts and make correlations and believe, and look at the moon, because either your dont know this MEASUREMENT , and Mensuration fetish is a belief system, an ideology, that is by *measuring*, you will understand, and so are slaves to it, or if you are aware you are slaves, because there is nothing else handy that is comprehensible you obey the dictates and measure, and calculate and graph and I appreciate that you do, and i like to see your posts, cos they contain Parts of the understanding and I REALLY THANK YOU for posting the charts, bekozzzz they look so real and tangible,


it is just that maybe there are some things beyond measurement, like the *value* of gold........ hmmm....

Well, perhaps some of the answers are in our language, in the subconscious realm of language, because language is the *metaphor* the exchange of symbols we use to try to explain the universe to each other.

Two peoples, and many peoples, divided by a *common* language....

Think of the GOLD expressions in everyday language that tell the lie of fiat currency. There are dozens, please add your own, they exist just below the level of ordinary awareness, they are almost subliminal , lurking, as it were, ready to pounce to recognise the inherent value of GOLD .....my precious

As good as gold
A gold medal
A gold record
A gold card
The golden years
Worth her weight in gold
The golden standard
The golden mean
The golden rule



I tried before ( see below ) to alert everyone to the effect of the Moon, and the Maori Calendar, and the Jewish Calendar and the old wisdom to **Buy on Chanunka, sell on Yom Kippur**. Yom Kippur is of course, the day of Atonement.
http://www.ohr.org.il/special/roshhash/index.htm

Here at kitco here we, measure, chart, tabulate our data, we are engaged in the arts and sciences of mensuration...

I present, ( ahhem ) a glimpse at English ( our common tongue, or perhaps our Heinielicker )

*month* 1 one of the twelve divisions of the calendar year..Old Norse Manthr, Gothic mena *moon*.

*mensa* Latin, table.

*mensal*, adj, 1. rare, monthly, 2. rare, to or used at the table.

*mensural*, adj. ,1. of or involving measure. 2 Music, of or relating to music.. ( from Late Latin Mensuralis, from mensura, to measure )

*menstruate *vb t o undergo menstruation. {C17th from Latin menstruare, from mensis *month*,}

*menstruum* n. pl. a solvent, esp, one used in the preparation of a drug ( C17th meaning solvent ) C14th ( menstrual discharge ) from Medieval Latin from Latin, menstrus, monthly, from *AN ALCHEMICAL COMPARISON BETWEEN A BASE METAL BEING TRANSMUTED INTO GOLD*

*mensuration* n. 1.The study of the measurement of geometric magnitudes such as length. 2. The act or process of measuring.


Mensa n. an international society, membership of which is restricted to people whose intelligence test scores exceed those espected by 98% of the population.

Mensa Sth Hemisphere constellation Lying between Hydrus and Volans.

*commensal* adj, 1 ( of two different species of plants or animals ) living in close association without being inter-dependent. 2. Rare of or relating to eating together, or or relating to eating at the same table; commensal *pleasures* ( C14th Latin con=same, + mensa=table )

commensurate adj, having the same measure..

and now some random web clippings on both the days of Attonement and gold

Each month may have 29 or 30 days, as they follow the course of the moon from new to new.

Of old, it required witnesses to declare the month. Observers of the new moon would rush to the Sanhedrin, which would examine their testimony and declare the new month. Then signal fires would light for the crowns of Jerusalem unto the cities of Persia.

A month 29 nine days is called Chaser ( missing or incomplete ) and a month of 30 days is Malae ( full ) . since Hillel established the calendar, these days are set in such a pattern so that *Yom Kippur* will not fall on Friday or Sunday, since this would place an undue hardship on Israel. would place an undue hardship on Israel.

The beginning of a *month*, called Rosh Chodesh, is a minor festival. In the times of the Temple, may it be speedily rebuilt in our days! special sacrifices were brought. In these days of our exile, special prayers are said. It is also the custom that women should do no work on Rosh Chodesh. This was given to them as a reward for their steadfast devotion in the incident with the *Golden Calf*. As it says, "And they plucked out the gold rings that were in the noses of their wives and their sons and daughters, and brought it to Aaron." ( Exodus ) From this we learn that it was the husbands who brought Aaron the gold from which was fashioned the Golden Calf. Therefore God gave them Rosh Chodesh as a holiday.



To those who have successfully managed the distance so far, I can only assume you have not watched enough TV. ( ( TV is., of course responsible for the 10 sec soundbite, the 12 minute concentration span, american sitcom humour and facile thinking ) ) have a look back at the aurasorryievenspoke post

Date: Thu Aug 28 1997 00:44 aurator ( @Soapbox ) : ( someone please fancify URL that thanks )

which includes this nonsense



A retired broker I spoke to many years ago told me of hearing of the frequent Autumn Crashes of the 19th Century and that he knew an old Jewish saying Buy on Chanunka, sell on Yom Kippur. The Jewish Calendar, like the Babylonian , Chinese and Maori calendar, is a lunar calendar. In the Jewish calendar the new moon is the first day of the moon cycle. Yom Kippur is the first full moon after the Jewish New Year. The new moon after the spring equinox ( Northern Hemisphere ) marks the first day of the first moon of the year. Selling on Yom Kippur would have preserved your capital in many, not all of the crashes below. It was five years before I read of Carolans discovery in an early release of his book. ( *5 )



shaking in your silk shorts anyone?


aurator

looking skywards,


are birds free from the chains of the skyways?

did i triple post, 'apologgiess danged gremlins.

Geez, thanks aurator, up all night no can sleep, after reading your
posts I can't keep my eyes open. Salut.

AURATOR: I did indeed notice how those who fulminated most soggily against astrology, something about which, it is clear, they know ABSOLUTELY nothing, did so under a full Moon. Hmmmm I wonder if there is any correlation there? ( ;-^ Methinks they doth protest too much.

Silver back at 4.90. Is this the same metal that the world is supposed to run out of in 3 years? In response to comments about supply and demand driving down the price of metals: It's true that there is no demand and will not be until people lose faith in paper currencies. When that time comes, the real scarcity of metals will reveal itself. Equally divided there's probably less than an oz. of gold in existence for each person in the world. Odds are we may never lose faith in paper currencies. Likewise, odds are your home will never burn down.
Still, the fact that the risk exists that your home might burn down, justifies
buying insurance on your home. Likewise, the risk that our currency may
become worthless justifies owning insurance ( gold ) on your paper currency.

Now, the way I see it, the more perceived risk that our paper currency may become worthless, the more people will be willing to pay for
insurance ( gold ) on their paper currency.

Granted, other factors affect the price of metals but what it really boils down to is how much faith people have in paper currency.

That said, the current low price of metals seems to be indicating that people have unprecedented faith in paper currency ( and paper in general ) .

Why hasen't the turmoil in Asia caused the price in metals to go up here?

The answer comes back to "perceived risk". The worse things are
"over there" compared to here, the stronger we appear to be. This results in less perceived risk here, thus prices of metals here remain low.

Unless something happens that makes people scared of holding
paper currency, the price of metals will stay low. One day that "something" will happen. Be it the insecurity that results the first time one of our cities is incinerated by a terrorist nuke, a future military confrontation with China, or any of 1000 other unforseen catastrophies. These events could happen tommorrow or they may never happen in your lifetime.

The point I'm trying to make is, buy silver and gold as insurance, not as an investment. That said, the silver or gold you buy today will be worth "something" in 20 or 30 years. Historically it will be worth about the same then as it is now adjusted for inflation. Looking at it this way, owning metals is not a bad deal. You get the benefit of the insurance and in the end, if you never need it, you get refunded the premiums paid for the
duration of the policy. Wish it worked that way with my car insurance!

Oh RJ.....With all respect, I have to take take difference on some of your commentaries Date: Thu Oct 16 1997 23:45:

"There is no mass manipulation to control the price of gold"
What would you consider the CB gold leasing is? " I can hardly believe in a world embracing, centrally controlled scheme to suppress gold
leases"

This criminal and fraudulent activity has quite effectively raised supply, without affecting the "apparant" stock. Gold is the only money that could replace the dollar as the world's reserve currency, or any other sovereign currency for that matter. You think that CB's would not jealously guard their currencies from gold, given that fiat currency is the greatest scam, pyramid, and theft of all time? It is the greatest control that the people in power have over the general populace... imagine....they can tax at will and without permission by simply printing more.


"As for supply, when considered, supply should be the chief reason for gold's demise".

And where do you think all this "supply" came from? General public? No way.....from CBs, and their gold leases.


"All my talk of CB sales is based on this method of deduction. I have not stated definitively that France is the seller. I still think Germany is the culprit. "

I think Germany ( and maybe France ) would be the LAST country on earth to sell their gold.


"Digging for gold is a waste. After all, gold's value lies in its scarcity. Digging up more only makes it less scarce."

Not so simple. If you are gigging up more gold as compared to the increase of world population, then I would agree with you. But as long as demographics outstrip ( by far ) gold production, gold will still become more valuable, including gold production, as time goes by, by have lesser quantities available per capita ( more population, more wealth ) .

As to your storm comment to Nick....if I can get my scanner running, I'll send some photos of 50 foot waves that I took in the South Pacific, between New Caledonia and Fiji.

Eldorado: Im trying to get out and do it again. Just finishing construction of analuminum 70 footer here in the Caribbean. After the properties sell..........

AURATOR: Calendars contain some very interesting information about the human condition and its relationship to the surrounding phenomena of the universe. Those who claim that stuff "so far away" in the furthest reaches of space cannot possibly affect us are simply laughable. As though man was some isolated thing "over here" and everything else was "over there." Be that as it may, a glance at the calendar will disclose that the year truly begins, as astrologers are well aware, with the first sign in the Zodiac - Aries. Count seven signs from Aries to Libra and we have the sign in which September appears. Sept - Seven. October follows ( Oct, Ocho ) November ( nine, Nueve ) DECember ( Decan, Diez, Decade, 10 ) and so on. The roots of the words for the months follow the ORDER of progression of the Zodiac, which is THE ORDER OF PROGRESSION OF ALL THINGS. If one can understand that order of progression, and the meaning behind each point in that order, one will have a broader and deeper understanding of the human condition, and the things that go on down here. And the order in which they manifest. This is essentially a philosophical and metaphysical study, so it's little wonder that those with pea-sized brains find understanding it insurmountable. Their only exposure to this oldest of sciences is through the back pages of tabloids and TV ads for phone line frivolity. That is to REAL astrology as paper notes are to gold. The order of progression and the qualities of the signs and planets is nice to know if you're an investor too, but the study is truly a means of self-knowledge, and knowledge of the human condition, in its most valuable applications..

http://biz.yahoo.com/upi/97/10/17/international_news/japanhong_2.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/10/17/z0009_29.html

CMAX: Central Bank leasing of gold will, in the long run, have a devastating impact on civilization equal to atomic warfare. Money is a wonderful invention that allows us to live the way we do. It permits the divison of labor through the confidence of sound money. Any act that destroys the confidence of money has the power to destroy civilization as we know it today.

http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/97/10/17/timfgneur01001.html?1124027

http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/97/10/17/timbizbiz01017.html?1124027

Mornin Donald,Mike Sheller,Nick ( C ) ect ect ect....looks like most everthing but NOT copper is down this morn. Weather: 50 degrees and overcast with big waves rollin in...

WEDNESDAY OCTOBER 15 1997

Rome's latest crisis raises the question whether political stability
should be a pre-condition for Emu membership

Governing Italy is not difficult. It is impossible. Benito Mussolini

Financial markets have reacted to the political crisis in Italy with astonishing
calm. Nothing, it seems, can shake their conviction that economic and
monetary union will go ahead on schedule, and that Italy will be present at the
creation of the euro on January 1 1999.

With Oscar Luigi Scalfaro, the president, apparently conjuring up a new
government, the mood of complacency is likely to grow. No matter if it is the
old centre-left coalition. Any government is better than a general election. The
markets want an end to uncertainty and are depending on the passage of the
1998 budget, which should show whether Italy has met the economic criteria
for Emu - in a credible fashion.

This interpretation of events is seductive, but short-sighted. For the past five
years, the Emu debate throughout Europe ( not just in Italy ) has focused on
the need for sound public finances. At times, discussion has degenerated into a
squabble over decimal points: whether the French, Germans or the Italians will
meet the public deficit criterion of 3 per cent of gross domestic product.

The Italian experience should force everyone to look at another criterion not
mentioned in the Maastricht treaty: political stability. The country's crisis was
triggered not by economics, but by politics. Romano Prodi's Olive Tree
coalition collapsed because his neo-communist allies refused to support
welfare and pensions cuts. Mr Prodi appears to have faced down Fausto
Bertinotti and the far left; but we cannot be sure.

The implication is, as Professor Peter Kenen of Princeton University reminded
us at the IMF-World Bank meeting: speculators such as George Soros cannot
break monetary union; governments can.

Centre-left, centre-right, technocratic or grand coalition, it hardly matters. If
wage claims are out of kilter with productivity rises; if the government is too
weak to manage the conflicts triggered by the downsizing of the welfare state;
or if labour market flexibility remains a figment of the European imagination,
Emu will not work.

With the exception of Hans Tietmeyer, president of the Bundesbank, and the
new government in Britain, most of Europe's leaders are afraid to speak out
about these fundamental issues. There is muffled talk among EU finance
ministers about "economic policy co-ordination". But for the most part, the
pro-Emu forces refuse to make a link between welfare and labour market
reform and monetary union.

This wait-and-see approach is dangerous. The post-Emu world is taking
shape before our eyes. The cause of last week's Bundesbank-led rate rise
was primarily to nip German inflation in the bud; but the effect was to suggest
the arrival of the pan-European interest rate, foreshadowing a single monetary
policy for the euro zone.

Another reason for tackling labour market reform head-on is that Europe's
chronic unemployment is forcing governments to adopt measures which could
harm prospects for a strong Emu. The outcry among French employers over
the Socialist government's plans to legislate a cut in the maximum length of the
working week to 35 hours is a sign of future conflict. Worryingly, Mr Prodi
appears to have agreed to a similar measure to buy off Mr Bertinotti.

Where does this leave Italy's bid to be a founder member of Emu? The worst
possible outcome - perhaps the one that the Bundesbank fears most - is that
Italy squeezes into Emu but then future governments are unable to follow up.
This would not only put at risk Italy's impressive financial reconstruction; it
would put a bomb under Emu because the Germans would lose faith in the
project's commitment to price stability and fiscal discipline.

A more generous view is that Italy's political stability depends on Emu
membership. Ordinary Italians are committed to the single currency. More
than 50 per cent, according to the polls. People see monetary union as a
passport to Europe.

This is an extraordinary statement from a country which has been a member of
the EU for the past 40 years. Perhaps the modernisation of Italy can only
take place behind the political cover which Europe provides. The euro is not
simply a matter of national pride. It is a matter of national survival.

Mr Prodi will play all these cards ahead of next May's summit where EU
leaders will decide which countries have qualified for Emu. He may even
repeat the question which his predecessor Giuliano Amato raised during the
1992 currency crisis when Italy failed to secure a realignment in the Exchange
Rate Mechanism: "Do you want a pirate lira?" asked Mr Amato. "We Italians
know a lot about pirates."

Whether Italy joins or sits out of the first wave will define whether Emu
membership is determined on economic grounds in support of a safe, stable
launch of the single currency; or whether a political approach will apply.

The British government, which is still hesitating over future entry, will watch
with interest. Life outside Emu looks more comfortable with an Italian
companion; but it looks a lot more lonely if Italy joins.

That which leaves Mr Tietmeyer. His warnings about political stability deserve
more attention than they are receiving. He should appreciate the joke one
Italian official told in Brussels last week. How much did the Bundesbank pay
Mr Bertinotti to topple the Prodi government? "This is the tragedy of my
country," said the diplomat. "He did it for free."

Silver-your "hitting the nail right on the head" it will take some major earth shatterring event to move metals..but it always seems at least in my lifetime, that these type of events are always averted..the worst never comes about..things always work out OK..the last really bad thing that has happened to this country in a psychological way negatively was WW2...control-the people that run this world have ABSOLUTE TOTAL CONTROL.

Hi Ted: We are only 44F this AM, sunny and calm with welcome rain predicted for tomorrow. I have been looking for news from Italy to support the gold sale information I received yesterday. Nothing yet but they do have problems!

Looks like today will test whether the recent coupling of gold and oil will continue. Oil strong, gold weak so far.

Bought BGO yesterday at 4, hope I'm rite. Gold is cheap.Also bot Scudder gold fund

Friday October 17 7:55 AM EDT

Homestake to reduce carrying value of assets

SAN FRANCISCO, Oct 17 ( Reuters ) - Homestake Mining Co said Friday that because of low gold prices, it will reduce
carrying value of several of its assets or operations with very short remaining lives.

These include Pinson mine, Homestake mine open cut, and low-grade stockpiled ore and certain redundant mining equipment
at Kalgoorlie.

The company also said it is unlikely to recover its remaining investment in Main Pass 299 sulfur mine because of a prolonged
period of low sulfur prices, and because of its assessment of estimated future cash flows.

The company also decided to increase reclamation accruals at some of its nonoperating properties to reflect changed conditions
and more stringent future reclamation requirements.

These properties include the Santa Fe mine in Nevada, the Nickel Plate mine in Canada and the Grants uranium complex in
New Mexico.

``Low gold prices also have caused the value of certain of our investments in other companies to decline significantly,'' said
Jack Thompson, president and chief executive. ``Accordingly, we have reduced their carrying values to reflect current market
prices.''

The company also said, though, it is confident that gold prices will improve.

The company reported a third quarter loss per share of $1.12 compared to profit per share of $0.05 per share for the same
period a year ago. The loss includes after-tax unusual charges of $0.99 cents per share.

Before taking the unusual items into account, Homestake incurred a loss of $0.13 per share from regular operations during the
third quarter of 1997 due to the continuing low gold price.

Analysts consensus estimates for the quarter was a loss per share of $0.08, according to First Call.

The company said the charges include $107.8 million pretax write-down of its investment in the Main Pass 299 sulfur mine in
the Gulf of Mexico and a $29.1 million pretax increase in the estimated accrual for future reclamation expenditures.

It also includes $16.5 million pretax write-down of certain investments to market value and $24.3 million pretax reduction in
the carrying values of short-lived mining properties as a result of the current low gold price.

The charges include $5.9 million pretax in other charges.

More news for referenced ticker symbols: HM, and related categories and industries: mining, stock capsules.


Help

we do indeed live in interesting times.

how is it that with so much that is interesting,
that there is ANY time to peruse ANYTHING that
detracts from growing the tree of knowledge?
the cat-sh!t here smells worse than the writers
of same. a war party is being readied to eviscerate
those responsible. their smelly hides will require
special permits for disposal as toxic flotsam and jetsam.

our day is at hand, and the voices of dissention are howling
as klinton and their other hero-----versacche------go down
in flames. their day is at hand too-------------time for a major
contraction, while the other side expands. rj--this is understand-able,
EVEN for you, danged chicken-chokers! aawwwkkkkkkk--------

hey ted--hope your smoke signals are non-acidic------

the paper-tiger has been snared in a trap set by its'
task-masters. they know it has been trapped, and now
they prepare with "a gun that does'nt make any noise" ( traffic )
but it was'nt the bullet that laid him to rest, was the low
spark of high-heeled boys---------traffic----

cherokee-driver-of-the-smoke-signal-mobile-for-all-time-imm

auric: http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/10/17/hm_y0023_1.html will likely affect your HM position today.

YEAR-TO-DATE STARTS 1.12 MLN, DOWN 2% FROM 1996.
08:31 STARTS IN WEST +11%; NE +10%; MIDWEST +9%; SOUTH +6%.
08:30 SINGLE-FAMILY STARTS +7%; APARTMENTS +11%.
08:30 HOUSING STARTS UP IN EVERY REGION.
08:30 SEPT. BUILDING PERMITS +3% TO 1.44 MLN RATE.
08:30 AUG. HOUSING STARTS REVISED UP TO 1.39 MLN VS. 1.36 MLN PREVIOUS
08:30 STARTS FAR EXCEED WALL STREET ESTIMATES OF 1.425 MLN.
08:30 STRONG HOUSING MARKET: SEPT. STARTS JUMP 8% TO 1.5 MLN.
07:50 UK MARKETS DOWN AT MIDDAY, BUT UP FROM DAY'S LOWS.

aurator: Buy Rosh Hashanah, sell Yom Kippur. Channuka is later, in December.

HM should find support at 13 3/4 - 14, and PDG 17 3/4, in their return move test of inverse H&S bottom breakout to the upside. If these levels hold ( give or take a quarter ) we will be set up for another push up. Silver appears to have made its return move from the 17 year downtrend breakout very quickly, in sympathy with gold. This could be very bullish as it gets its test out of the way early and lures in a lot of knee-jerk shorts. There's hope yet that the bottoms are in. Copper weekly stochastics look mighty fine, and the weekly price pattern looks to be creating a nice little upward-tilting launching base. In about 2 weeks copper should be clearly on the way.

G S Cole: Sorry to overlap yours. I was typing and pasting as yours was posting. This HM news could set the tone for gold stocks today.

Cherokee --

It just might be that hairy handed gent, who ran a-muck at Kent.

He's still out there! Know what I mean.

Time to go to work.

There is only one eternally sure way to make money investing. Buy Low, Sell High. The greatest opportunity is direct investment in ore-bearing properties. The recent news from BCMD, a little, well-diluted mining company, is sufficient for the wise. It's rich property with huge gold veins was picked up for a relative song. It is amazing in this current claim property market how much reserves can be bought for so little cash. In many cases $1 - $5 per ounce of gold. Why put new cash into a little company with tens of millions of shares already out, when you can get more claim equity value out of your money immediately. Seek and ye shall find.

Pocket the black man!

RE: Your 00:17, many thanks for sharing your insights. When the WOP agree with the WOC that's a pretty powerful indicator to me. Best fortune, mon ams, ( excus, Bernatz! ) . BTW, just one picky observation, the short skirts, they kinda clash with a long one!8- )

I wish someone would call EBN and tell them to multiply by -1 .. How long are they going to keep publishing this backward sign??

Mornin dude...no acid here....S+P futures down 3.65---glad I unloaded all that paper......smoke signals seen on horizon...

Bernatz: Of course I remember that your natal tongue is la langue d'oc. I regret bitterly the burning of your friends and ancestors at Albi when the northern rascals d'oui poured south to steal your rich lands and destroy your superior culture, out of envy and greed. They even sought the pope's blessing for their genocide. But today, in your modern persona, you write "leetle deeties" for my namesake Elf Aquitaine, which advertizes in the France of oui. I thought, therefore, and because little fragments of French do creep into your postings on Kitco, that you might perhaps shed some light on the DuFay question. Pardonnez-moi, mon vieux. And do keep us posted on the gold machine, s'il vous plait.

PM: Be wary of breach in economic
borders

PETALING JAYA: Asean must be wary of attempts to weaken the grouping and step up
economic integration as it braces to face an uncertain environment in the next millennium,
Datuk Seri Dr Mahathir Mohamad said yesterday.

The Prime Minister said the regional grouping must take stock of its direction to make its place
in the world and chart a longer term vision of what it wants to be as an association.

"Our targets must be that of gaining advantage from our strengths rather than merely protecting
our weaknesses.

"We struggled hard to gain independence and we cannot afford to lose our sovereignty in the
name of free, unrestricted breaching of our economic and other borders.

"At least we must ascertain that such breaching will be subjected to eventually beneficial rules,"
he said in opening the 29th Asean Economic Ministers meeting here yesterday.

Asean members, Dr Mahathir said, may need to look at the way they co-operate with a new
perspective to take economic integration to a higher plane in efforts to maintain the grouping's
relevance.

"Our recent experience with currency manipulation should be a big lesson for us. While we
should always avoid abusing the system, we must be perpetually alert to the possibilities of
others exploiting our weaknesses in order to weaken us further.

"We have a duty to bring order within and between our countries, and indeed contribute to a
more orderly world environment," he added.

Dr Mahathir said Asean would have to acknowledge that greater economic integration would
expose it to internal dispute in the implementation of the economic initiatives that might be put
in place.

"Asean economic co-operation has come a long way. The journey ahead is longer and more
demanding.

"We can make the journey less onerous if we prepare ourselves well for it, if we remain
focused in addressing issues that confront us and if we remain committed to achieve our
regional goals."

The Prime Minister also emphasised the positive aspects of the development of capital markets,
saying recent developments revealed how vulnerable Asean was to various abuses.

"We must make a distinction between speculative, short-term 'hot money' operations and
serious investments in productive activities," he added.

Jo'burg down 23.9

I told you. Look at them run.

Look at the sea of red from Europe. Going to be another interesting day. We may see metals improve a little today.

aurator: Maybe your friend really was a long-term investor, and really meant to stay in the market from December to September every year. Perhaps his variant on the buy Rosh Hashana, sell Yom Kippur adage was intentional. But as for Chris Carolan's calendar cycles ( his first name is Christopher ) , have you actually tried to apply them? I got his book when Prechter first pushed it. I set up a reiterative spread sheet following his guidelines and ran many years of data through it, trying to verify his claims. With the number of days of fudge factor he allows on either side of the Target date, combined with the overlapping of cycles spiralling out from the many past high and low dates for gold, I ended up with a possible high or low for almost every day of every year. Have you actually used his method and found it predictive? How do you sift all the chaff out from the wheat, unless you are using other technical methods anyway, so why bother with the Spiral?

TO SILVER: your thoughts are interesting, and I agree in large part. I do think that at this particular point history you are not giving enough attention to the demand you say institutes the switch from paper to hard assets. ( the metals ) China and India have entered into some very interesting agreements. Heretofore enemies have now become friends.

China and India are gobbling up the metals at a rate that is mind boggling. Worldwide consumption figures are manipulated, when the real numbers are calculated by historians the transfer of wealth from west to east will astound the most studious of the markets.

Two and a half billion people, two emerging economies containing people that are not going to be suckered into believing in paper/fiat/worthless money. They will demand the only real store/money, gold.

The metals are insurance to be sure. Their meteoric rise will come from these two nations insatiable appetites.

I would suggest that holders of the metals continue to hold and accumulate. Gold will be viewed as money. Silver and platinum, the manufacturing metals will soar, ( due to the have nots wanting what the haves enjoy ) with each spike to the upside of the white metals I would advise selling the whites and trading them in for gold.

My soapbox is giving away.

Dow -38.56, XAU -1.31, Gold Futures -1.1, Platinum Futures - 10.4, all from gold-eagle. Gone fishing! As I will be away from the computer today, expect extreme market action.

Dow now down 82

After a wobble, shares face a longish but not steep decline
http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/97/10/17/timbizecv02001.html?1124027


And for those with a passion
From the archives of my Dad:


In the desert waste
A fountain of cool water
A tree flowers there.


Long days of beauty
Spring flowers, summer fruits,
Leaves fall; then the snow.


Thus the day, the sun
The silver moon and a sleep
Then to wake again.

And for us Ozzies

A smart dandy boy is young Keating
His mob took a terrible beating,
They lost cosy seats
With the perks and the treats
And return to the trough they're now seeking.

RJ - Re: your post of a few days ago concerning a lack of major increase in your firm's sales of g/s coin, this in response to a news item posted ( Donald ? ) showing the US Treasury having big increases recently and year over year ...

I would agree that your firm should have seen a rise ( do you only supply US domestic market? ) in proportion to the reported increases by UST. But is it possible that these sales are going off shore and/or that individuals are going directly to the UST? The Treasury has direct sales of T-Bills and Bonds. Coins now also? The fellow I deal with has seen an increase of buying selling on the order of 10 - 15%.

It appears you folks are being bypassed by some big, smart money. If you are seeing a little increase then I'd say that reflects a small increase in little guy buying. Somebody has been loading up on coins from the manufacturer and not though you. Its either a very few, very deep pocketed individuals ( US & non-US citizens of the world ) or its some competion who is setting up shop waiting for the panic. Perhaps of Buffet or Soros caliber. Comments?

Re: 'world embracing conspiracies' There may be a culture in the upper reaches of finance which would see gold in the same way and so act with it in the same way vis'a'vis their own interests. So they may sell chunks for their own reasons at pretty much the same time frame. But there is little colaboration. Its more a matter of the fact that whether its a mallard, a polish or a japanese duck they still quack and waddle, sometimes together, sometimes seperately. There is a certain environment and outlook right now which dicates ( and precludes ) certain behaviors. This is one ( gold sales ) .

Thanks for including me in your 00:17 post. And am glad to hear your views expressed articulately since I'm not in your place or occupation.

To all enjoy



Art has its mission
Making clear to the round world
Love, order, beauty

????

A new Age dawns
New hopes and times await us
But, the same human face

????

The lark salutes the sun
Singing the sweet joy of life
What shame few hear

????

We enter life haphazardly
Live so so
Have little choice leaving

????

The loved one gone
Such unwanted circumstance
What waste of love and joy








They are so young
So beautiful - what pity
The afflictions of age

????

This old lady alone, man gone
Children scattered far
Love old - love cold

????

A spring in the desert
Shade and a handful of dates
Ah, these are life

????

Yes, Life is good, yes
Love savours it, but only
Faith and toil grant it

????

Forget your cares
They will scarce survive your fears
Ah, the Moon - the flowers










This age grows old
The new millennium dawns
But the same moon and sun

????

Gods, ancient or new
They are the splendid vision
Or a splendid dream

????

Haiku San
With syllables seventeen
Is humanity exposed

????

Zen masters care not
Seek wisdom, the way is hard
He has Satori

????

Cogito ergo sum
Bright dream of this life
But after Death - what then

Nick posts Haiku.
Our spirits drink at Beauty's spring.
Gold's at three two five.

Does anywhone here know anything about Spider ressources and KWG, and do you have an opinion on why these stocks are holding up to the down trend in gold stocks?

Time to sleep gold bear
Hibernate long this winter
Let the bull run free

HM down only 1/8 after steep asset writedowns. XAU also not doing too badly considering today's $1.30 drop in bullion.

Stocks a bit nauseous. Gold fast asleep at the wheel. Not a pretty site.

LGB is quiet
Dow has completed a bounce
Resuming its fall

Elf ( the poster formerly appended to auro ) Thank you -

Linguistic conspiracy? On Kitco? English it will be. ( Do you know of any Foreign Language gold discussion links? Would like to investigate the CB sales rumours in the possible land of origin. )

cmh

Arise, thou fallen

Vessel of our hopes and dreams:

FDPMX

One final haiku ( overheard in a delicatessen this morning )

FUNEX
OYSV do FX
LFMNX

Ok...sorry...I'll stop now *smile*

Aurator: Appreciate your moderation efforts. This site is of little value to anyone when the posts become personal attacks.
RJ:Thanks for giving some details on your precious metals sources. This kind of information is essential when we have all of those CB "elephants" sitting wherever they want.
Allen ( USA ) : Thanks for noting that country CB gold sales are generally for internal reasons , not necessary world-wide conspiracies
Nick ( @Aussie ) : Your are a fascinating fellow and a real asset to this site. Wish I had a fraction of your day-trading skills or poetic skills.
Donald: Where would we get info without you, and your gentle style of influencing the focus of the web site. Your understanding of the basics of the financial problems of the world may save us from a financial Tsunami. Trading/investing in any "virtual" asset is at risk these days.
Another: Look forward to your pending posts. I hope our healthy questioning will not "scare" you off. If you really do have our best interests at heart, you will understand this.
Alan Greenspan: If you read these posts, I for one consider you one of the best Fed governors we have ever had -- if anyone can sail our ship through these difficult waters it is you -- best of luck, and don't retire soon. Can you bring the dollar down gracefully, please?
To all: I don't wish to slight anyone if have missed -- only two weeks at this and don't know everyone. Those of you who have contributed to this site know who you are. Those of you who start personal attacks also know who you are. Welcome to the beginning of "the awakening" and the beginning of "the turn of the century".

Mike Sheller: Appreciate your tolerance. For some reason the term "Astrology" generates strong opinions. I think the human world is divided into two general groups: Those who are willing to learn new things, and those who aren't. Those who are willing to learn will eventually awaken to the world around them -- often a slow process at best! When things are less busy I'll outline some of that experimental data. Isn't it interesting that one of the most competent and productive members of this site - Nick ( @Aussie ) - has no problem accepting effects of the phases of the moon? Says something, doesn't it?
Perhaps someday you can help me understand some of those complex Astrological tools. I am currently forced to understand by inference, and by study of cycles analysis, since anything beyond the moon is beyond my grasp at the moment, Astrologically speaking!

ID#346140: Don't know of any gold discussion groups in French ( or Spanish or Italian ) , but would welcome news of any myself. A year ago, I followed francom.opinions for a while to try to improve my rusty French, but found it counterproductive. At the time, there was a clever series of parodies being posted, pretending that the world was reversed, and Quebec was trying to reunite itself to Canada. But otherwise the talk was mostly political and computechnical, the French was often as poorly spelled and constructed as is the English of a typical tekkie in North America, and I doubt any participants followed the markets.

To all: Did you all get USAGOLD's comments today about Japan buying gold? That explains a few things, doesn't it! I haven't heard any opinions about this site from the gold guru's, but it looks to me that these individuals are on the ball!

http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/md/index.html may be worth a glance now and then, for the larger world picture from a French perspective. Gold is not often mentioned, but influences on it can be discussed.

Here is the url for usagold:

http://www.USAGOLD.COM/Daily%20Quotes

Good site!! thanks JTF..

JTF - I can't lay claim to those beautiful words, they come from my father's work. I have 5 books of poetry and verse that he has written over his lifetime. About 300 pieces in all, all stored on my hard drive. None of his work has been published yet, it still is one of his lifes dreams but unfortunately poetry/prose is almost impossible to move hence the publishers always smile and say sorry. There are some truly beautiful pieces there which I shall share from time to time. That is if no one minds the bandwidth. But then we can always scroll quickly past the rubbish to find the gems.

DJ have downloaded the programs, thanks, now to install and test.

Oracle@japanese.SURVIVAL -- US PORT BLOCKADE OF ALL NIPPON SHIPS!!!

Financial Tsunami Looming in Land of the Setting Sun? Oracle provides ample evidence Japans Financial Scandals & Crisis will drive US stocks and dollar down, rates & GOLD UP:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/oracle825.html

Avid chatter

I know all this talk about the anniversary" is tiresome, but there is an interesting factual table in todays wsj; div yld:----------------------- now 1.68% ----------------then 3.07%
snp pe:----------------------- now 23.56 -----------------then 21.17
mkt cap:---------------------- now 9.4 trillion,-----------then 2.5 trillion
number of stock MF:------ now 6685 ------------------then 2129
assets of same:-------------- now 4.2 trillion------------ then 848 billion
avg trading volume: ------- now 513-------------------- then 188

you really have nailed it, i think, on the idea that gold as money, is perceived as a threat by the cbs of the world. it is something they cannot control. they will think they kill it, i opine, but when it rises from the ashes, stand clear, i say!

To all - when you invest your money in gold mining companies, what is your goal? To
make money? Preserve wealth? Follow the crowd ( or broker ) ?

To make money? How much? What is a good return? A double? Triple? Sig wrote a
nice piece on Canyon Resources the other day. Fine company, good people ( some of
them used to work for me ) . Producing gold, making money, good reserves, cheap stock.
Why not buy them? They have almost 39 million shares out. With the stock at $3, a
double would of course be $6 BUT the market value of the company would have to
increase by over $120 million just for you to double your money. We need a real move in
gold before that will happen.

Preserve wealth? Gold mining companies with good reserves are a good way to preserve
wealth as long as they don't have too much debt. Gold mining companies who are actively
acquiring gold reserves in a drastically depressed market are a very good way to preserve
wealth.

Follow the crowd? No, you want the crowd to follow you. A gold company with a well
thought out plan of acquisition, production and financing will make an absolute killing in
the next five years.

Me? Well I look to make a Sawbuck for a Buck. My email address is real.

In taking aim at the Stock Market Greenspan warns against expecting the market rally to continue at the torrid pace seen in the last couple years:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/inger1009.html

Please see the lead article in
http://www.csmonline.com/coinworld
for the facts about bullion silver
sales in the U.S. this year.
Also, please do not quote propaganda
from pro-metals newsletters to further
the ridiculous assertion that metals
sales are up this year. Bullion
sales are up every quarter and every
year according to these publications.

Gold to 310 by 10/23/97
Dow to 8300 by 10/23/97

Jeff, I'm not even on
the grill yet at BK,
I have to mop the floors
and clean the toilets
with my tongue. I have
one arm and my face was
torn off when I fell into
a lube rack and I am about
500 pounds overweight.
I still don't know why you
love me like you do but I
count my blessing every
day that you give yourself
up to me so freely and participate
so enthusiastically in all our
wild love-making episodes besides
babbling brooks and near downtown
shopping malls. I'm not afraid
to say it, Jeff - I love you and
love you and love you. Thanks
for such an enriching correspondence.
Don't ever change.

Cheer up! Silver bugs depressed. Goldbugs frustrated.

I stare at this chart every day, when I update it with the latest London afternoon metals fixes. I like what I see.

Far from being a "dog" silver is still comfortably within its channel that is RISING AT 50% PER YEAR. This isn't cause for celebration?

OK. So gold is sleeping, resting up for the strenuous duty that lies ahead when it is called upon once again to perform its role in the world.

Platinum and palladium seem to be responding to the laws of supply and demand, and there is great opportunity there for investors.

Patience and faith will reap rewards.

BILL ADMITS TO SOFT-$$ PAYOFF ON TAPE
http://www.nypostonline.com/news/501.htm

THE CRASH OF 1997
http://www.nypostonline.com/business/470.htm

29 vs 87 vs 97
http://www.lowrisk.com/anniv/87vs97.htm

12:16 DEWALD: MONTH-TO-MONTH CHANGES CAN'T BE JUDGED FOR MONEY GROWTH TREND.
12:14 FED'S DEWALD: HIGHER INFLATION LIKELY RESULT OF SUSTAINED U.S. M2 RISE.

arden: Thanks for the press on Canyon Resources. I have plenty and have been waiting 3 years for some type of move. Very professional company.
I met Devoto at a mining conference in NY a while back. They have good strategy and it seems to be a company you can trust in a sometimes questionable industry. Should be a powerhouse in years to come. It has also held up rather well this year considering the performance of other golds.

Rubbish - How much money do you have placed that says gold-310 and market -8300 - I certainly hope not much.

The dow will drop another 200 or so points by then, but gold will waffle in the same time span. Watch for silver to start the up surge in the next 1 to 3 weeks.

Rubbish - How much money do you have placed that says gold-310 and market -8300 - I certainly hope not much.

The dow will drop another 200 or so points by then, but gold will waffle in the same time span. Watch for silver to start the up surge in the next 1 to 3 weeks.

Rubbish - How much money do you have placed that says gold-310 and market -8300 - I certainly hope not much.

The dow will drop another 200 or so points by then, but gold will waffle in the same time span. Watch for silver to start the up surge in the next 1 to 3 weeks.

Rubbish - How much money do you have placed that says gold-310 and market -8300 - I certainly hope not much.

The dow will drop another 200 or so points by then, but gold will waffle in the same time span. Watch for silver to start the up surge in the next 1 to 3 weeks.

Rubbish - How much money do you have placed that says gold-310 and market -8300 - I certainly hope not much.

The dow will drop another 200 or so points by then, but gold will waffle in the same time span. Watch for silver to start the up surge in the next 1 to 3 weeks.

Rubbish - How much money do you have placed that says gold-310 and market -8300 - I certainly hope not much.

The dow will drop another 200 or so points by then, but gold will waffle in the same time span. Watch for silver to start the up surge in the next 1 to 3 weeks.

LONDON, Oct 17 ( Reuters ) - Market bears' plunder of silver through Thursday has spilled over to pull down gold and platinum, dealers said on Friday, leaving palladium once again as the only precious metal left to the bulls.

Gold fixed at $324.20 per ounce in London, more than three dollars off Thursday afternoon's $327.35.

Spot gold had held its own through most of Thursday, while silver sagged but finally succumbed after London's close.

``Silver got sold off early on in the session on COMEX which eventually fed through onto gold,'' one dealer said.

``Once it started to push down it gave way. We took a look at the first level of support at $325, which has been eroded, it's now looking pretty weak down to $321, $322,'' the dealer added.

In Hong Kong, spot gold ended down on New York's close, breaking the key level of $325 after heavy selling throughout the day from Australia and Europe, dealers there said.

``We saw very good selling from Australians towards the Tokyo close at around 0330 GMT,'' said one.

Hong Kong dealers reported stop-loss selling after gold breached $324 per ounce when it sank quickly to the day's low of $323.50/80, where some physical buying was seen.

Market sentiment for silver and gold remained bearish, the London dealer said.

``Silver's liquidation yesterday is changing things and most of the pressure is coming from silver,'' he said.

The metal sat on support of $4.90/$4.92 at 1000 GMT, eyeing the lower range of $4.50-$4.89 it broke from on September 29.

``Silver would find support at $4.82 and $4.79, when we start to run into things like the 200-day moving average,'' he added.

Silver's 200-day MA was at $4.79 on Thursday.

Platinum also looked weak, testing towards the bottom of its recent $420/$440 range on the back of losses in gold and silver.

``Just above $400 at around $410/20 is a fair value for platinum,'' said one dealer, who saw quiet trading on Friday with the market watching for news on the Russian supply situation.

``It's all linked to the Russian deliveries: if we have good news coming from there it goes down, lack of news makes platinum rally,'' he said.

At 1000 GMT, spot platinum was quoted at $424.50/$426.50, down six dollars from Thursday's close, while palladium firmed a dollar on its close to reach $222.50/$224.50.

Does anyone know a good URL for real time US$/YEN/DM trading spots?

To all, sorry about the redundant posts. I don't what happen, but I am sure it was my screw up.

elf,
Sorry I was link-bouncing through

http://home.sn.no/~thorie/papers.html

Thanks for the "lead" I'll check it out- watching the DOW dive right now.

cmh

Pathetic action by gold so far today! Dow down 104 points, Fed member worried about M2 growth and inflation, and what does gold do?

Hey tolerant - Well, let's see, I've got some
money coming for Sen. Blutarsky from that
"gold will not go back to $325" bet a couple
weeks ago. And then there was that really
confident rich guy from up North who wanted
some bet about gold above $350 on October 1,
I think, with the amount above or below $350 to be
multiplied by some factor and given to the winner.
So that's a pretty healthy amount. As to gold
waffling, I'd have to say its been a pretty healthy
pancake block down from $335 or wherever it was
a couple weeks ago. Do you want to jump in after a
solid week of losses? Then go to it, big money.

Tolerant1.. If you were logged onto the 00:00 -11:59 time period and posted, you would not see a new post on the 12:00- time period.
Most of us have done it.

The XAU graph looks like an old man walking to the gallows for his own hanging as it continues to slide.

Where is the support?

Larryn: Thank you for telling me.

Hey - could the people who assured me gold was a better
investment than a savings account a couple weeks
ago update me on how we stand currently? You can
go ahead and use the $313 figure, as if you actually
got in at this level.

Gosh, Larryn - You are the ones who must
provide support for the XAU, but of course
support isn't necessary since we heard on
Kitco a few weeks ago that "THE BOTTOM IS
IN". Sit back and enjoy the ride, Larryn.
Guess what trusted leader is rigging your sails.

Sure is quiet today. Where is the impending catastrophe
crowd? Where is the gold as ultimate store of value crowd?
Remember, past is not necessarily prologue. Just because
gold hasn't performed well in the last year or the last
seventeen years isn't reason to get pumped up about gold.
We go through the exercises every day at Kitco, and there
is no reason to stop now. Somebody must be benefitting
from the finger exercise, if not in the wallet.

Jump in now - get 9% on your investment by 10/23 ?
what's that about fools and gold?

Allen: You asked about exchange rates, this URL has CURRENCIES GALORE:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/currencies.html

For sig@zevon and zee cherokee---

Bettair stay away from heem, he'll reep your lungs out, Jeem ----

Panda: Gold's action indeed leaves much to be desired considering the Dow's steep drop. But the dollar is strong today and that has a much bigger impact on the yellow than daily stock market fluctuations.

BTW, this stock market decline probably won't carry too far unless and until the greenback tanks as well.

Patience Panda, the wheels are turning in the correct direction. We don't need a big one day move, we just need a directional change. I think what are getting is a complete sea change. I am sure people would rather climb on board gold and gold stocks now rather than pile on the Dow, the tech sector, bonds ... . I think all will be well. Relax and be patience the hard work has been waiting all these years ... not these minutes, hours ... .

TO: Not so tolerant: Hmmm.

How is Sen. Blutarsky? All kidding aside. I do see your points. And they are well taken.

My point is that I believe the market is going to implode. This does not have to happen over night, nor lead to the end of the world.I think that the metals are the place to be. In my opinion inflation is not under control, and the markets are in dire trouble. When you light a candle it does not melt all at once, I believe the markets will see a steady decline which will lead to a severe meltdown as paranoia spreads to panic creating a mass selloff.

I am well entrenched in the metals and do not jump in nor out of markets. Preperation for me started roughly three years ago as I thought the writing was clearly on the wall.

Gold in my opinion will waffle and I would aquire it for $50 in either direction as I believe buying gold with fed funny money is a steal. My thinking tells me that silver will snap the camels back and gold will be unleashed. The white metal will lead the way, it will ignite gold and the gold bull will trample the CBs and the Fed like an unwanted stepchild.

Of course I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Check the above numbers at Kitco and look at the markets. Dow down 140, Nasdaq down 44, S&P down 17

Onyx--Spider Resources has a thread on the Silicon Investor, URL http://talk.techstocks.com/~wsapi/investor/Subject-8308
At the bottom of the page is a search engine to help locate other companies. The September issue of Perspectives, a free web newsletter on resource stocks also covered it. Their e-mail address is perspec@istar.ca

Just in from chainsawin and see the Dow is looking a little sick--glad I sold alot of stox in the past seven weeks!

Nas. down 46? I'm not losing all that money I didn't make. Hey guys--7800 is critical support and 3 minutes ago the Dow was down 140 points.

Stocks are PLUMMETING! Today's RECENT LOWS: DOW DOWN 153, NASDAQ DOWN 47 7 S&P 500 DOWN 20, Whereas XAU down only about one point. George S. Cole's call of the DOW's peak in August may well prove to be gospel. Watch the paper getting pummeled in Virtual Time:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/intra-day.html

Panda, I don't believe that John Q Public is going to enjoy holding the stocks over the weekend. Nasdaq down over 45 points - a record I believe. All major indexes down BIGTIME. They definite going to pull out their check books come Monday and buy,buy,buy ---- or are they going to this time. DOW may close low enough to set a hard and shoulders pattern. Worrisome.
Now compare that to our lazy gold. What you owned Thursday, you owned Friday and Monday. And when you analyze it -- it looks to be making a bottom. People are going to start putting money here for the same reason they have buying the market for all these years -- they need to put all that money somewhere. And at the moment neither bonds and non-precious metals stocks will be all that comforting to them.

They will be moving into our camp IMHO.

XAU SUPPORT RUS #161159..
I was only asking if any knowledgeable student of TA had determined the next support level for XAU, if there was one. Which trusted leader were you referring to? You seem to be bothered that someone else could possibly reach a different trading decision than you and still hold it with conviction?

I assume that you think that gold is going down more. You may be right. For me, I am currently shorting some gold stocks so apparently agree with you right now. However, if the 30 year bond rate keeps climbing, I will be quick to cover. In one day it has moved from 6.34% to 6.45%, a significant move and an indication that the dollar may be in trouble soon. Methinks the Japanese are selling US treasuries. If so I think it may just be a short term signal aimed at our trade negotiators. With all those variables out there, how can you stick with one direction unless you are long term, which has to be up for gold. Short term? -- who knows.

DOW DOW ( N ) 180, NASDAQ DOW ( N ) 53 & S&P500 DOW ( N ) 24: Virtual Floor Trading charts:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/intra-day.html

I can't get in to this site !!!!!!

Here's an outdated table ( done about fifteen minutes ago )

We need DOW 4500 and GOLD 500. Or reverse....

Semi-conductor index ( SOX ) is off about fifty points in five days, roughly 12% in the last week. Looks like a little buying going on in the XAU and HUI. Nothing of substance though, more likely it's bottom fishing.

BBL

For Zee Elf of Aquitaine -

Dear Lady - You have asked me about zee question of
Dufay ?? Ah don know what you want to know about heem.
Ah assume you mean Guillaume DuFay. Ah dont know any
ozair DuFay. Ah cant tell you much of anyzing. Ah met
heem once in Burgundy and we had a few drinks. It was
maybe 1425 pluus are meenus. He looked maybe 30 years
old as ah recall an he had just written a song about
zee wine from lannoy ( not bad too ) . Ah lost touch weez
heem but ah theenk he became a beeg deal in zee church -
and he started writing zee religious stuff. Ah believe
he became a canon ( not zee boom boom one but zee church
one ) . Zats all Ah can theenk of for ze moment.
On zee question of zee machine - Zat ees a story in
itself - ah may have become El Nino of zee gold market.
Mah first coins - Mon Dieu - ah put Nelson Mandela
on zee KrugerRand. Sometimes Ah can be so stupide !!

hepCRAP: Still on the night shift uh! How's things in the burbs at apartment ( A ) har har har. You must have such an exciting life to bless us with so much of your wonderful prose as you stay glued to the kitco site.har har har. Why don't you tell us of your wild+crazy trips to Mexico with your cool-dude friends ( alice in wonderland---fantasy time )

My gold stocks are withstanding the drop very well. Still, 200pts, is only 3 percent of the dow, lets not get carried away. What will be interesting is if the weekend worrying causes a bigger drop, or will the buy on dippers pull things back up. Gold is doing nothing, just watching.

Retail investors in US paper in Japan are sleeping while the Europeans are out on Friday night. Black Monday ( Oct-19-87 ) was preceeded by a Friday sell-off. When the NYSE Bell sounds today the reveration won't be known until early next week. If the dollar withstands the Japanese-US mini port crisis combined with a healthy sell-off in stks and bond price jitters today then gold is doomed until the CBs stop fueling the shorts or half the gold industry is shut down due to uneconomic conditions caused by low gold prices.

Cheers

There has been a break-through in the trade talks with Japan ( how convenient...eh ) ---just in time for the weekend! Dow immediately started back up and now only down 110 ( from 180 a few minutes ago )

Oh Jeff, my hearts quiver when I see
your words of love. Please continue
to serenade me with words like you
caress me with your soft hands. I
see gold was down again today, Jeff,
so maybe we should stick to the topic
instead of planning our next escapade
( what famous Nordic explorer are you
going to dress up like this time? Oh,
just thinking about you wearing fur
makes me swimmy-headed. ) .

Vronsky - G S Cole already conceded
to Oldman. It's kind of like finding
out after conceding an election that
you actually had enough votes to win.
Too bad.

P.S. How about Platinum and Palladium?
Are they leading the way?

Bernatz: My question to you concerned the pronunciation of his name. We singers call him Du-Fa-i with three syllables. A professor insists it was Du-Fe with two syllables. 600 years ago, orthography and pronunciation were quite different, and who knows today how your friend Guilaume pronounced his own name. Perhaps you recall how he introduced himself over drinks in the year 1347? My Du-Fa-i choice is based on his own setting of his name in his third Ave Regina Coelorum, in which he sets Miserere supplicanti Du-Fa-y at measure 87 with the Du-Fa-y clearly given three notes in all voices. ( This question was first posed to you yesterday evening, and led to the off-topic conversation with cmh which has followed, and probably is annoying the other Kitkoites today. )

Recovery angels keep the bull alive.

Gold to 310 by 10/23/97
Dow to 8300 by 10/23/97

Any questions?

I have just heard something that intrigues me. Apparently, there is some investment regulation in Japan that will be lifted in April - ( I don't know what the regulation is ) - Japanese banks are gearing up for this change and are planning to open mutual fund windows at their banks with the expectation that Japanese individual investors will transfer their savings from low interest bearing CD's into mutual funds. The expectation is also that a large chunk of this money will find its way into the US stock market. Is anyone familiar with this situation? If true, I think it should keep the US bull market going for some time.

I've heard that a very low % of Japanese people are currently in the stock market - something like 7%.

Any comments?

dow to 7000 by 10/23/97, gold to remain relatively unchanged. No question about it

Of course, it was 1425, as you say, not 1347. Guillaume DuFay was born in 1397, hence the 600 year anniversary celebration going on this year worldwide.

Does anyone know what the FED has scheduled for October 23rd ? Is it a closed MEETING ? ( is there a published agenda ? ) Is it a SPEECH by A.G. ? ( are there any rumors as to what he might say ? ) .

Hey hepRAT: You must be some IMPORTANT exec. to want to hang here every day uh,but I guess that beats dealing with ignorant rednecks. oh by the way what stocks do you have in your portfolio ( har har har ) must be some multi-zillionaire,another Bill gates ( har har har ) living in burbia glued to his meager computer screen,obsessed with kitco and the honorable George S Cole---if you could only be half the MAN he is ( har har har )

Larryn : It's also my impression that the Japanese are selling US treasuries, and buying gold, among other things. When 33% of all US treasuries are foreign owned, that is a serious matter, indeed. Wonder what the rapid resolution of the US-Japan trade crisis implies? Did the Japanese promise to stop selling treasuries?
This may not be bullish for gold yet, as our AG will probably push gold prices down to keep the dollar up. The key question is how long he can do that. My guess is that while there is a chance for official central bank selling - Italy, France, Germany, etc., AG will be able to keep this up -- but how about after Jan 1988?

Jeff - I had no idea you were doing time with
G S Cole as well. Shall we make it a threesome?
He seems like the strong, silent type. Although,
I would hate for you to give him herpes like you
gave me.

G S Cole: Homestake closed up 1/8 on a day of bad news, announcing the devaluation of its assets. This is very positive for your scenario. Gold stocks are on a recovery track when they can ignore or rise on bad news.

Vronsky - Thanks but the FOREX URL did not post correctly. Could you repost. Thanks.

You will stoop to nothing

Mike Sheller: Your confidence in HM this morning was well placed. It held well above 14 today, to close at 14 1/2, after a low of 14 1/8, just as you foresaw. Tell us it will hold next week?

Day of reconning, Oct/23rd. Four Business Days away, and Counting......
:- ) )

Geoff : Never wrestle a pig. You are bound to get dirty, and the pig likes it.

Dow/Gold Ratio = 24.15

My earlier reference to a October 23rd FED meeting/speech should have read October 28th. My mistake. Would somebody please double-check me on this one, anyway ?

October 17, 1997
Shipping row could prove boon for Canada

VANCOUVER, British Columbia ( Reuters ) - A shipping dispute between Japan and the United States looks likely to deliver a windfall to Canada if Japanese vessels bound for U.S. ports are forced to reroute, maritime officials said Friday.

Vancouver, sitting on Canada's Pacific Coast about 25 miles north of the United States, is virtually the only alternative to U.S. West Coast ports that can handle significant volumes. The city, Canada's busiest port, is already a major hub for Japanese shippers, and this summer doubled its capacity for handling cargo containers.

In a lucky coincidence for the Vancouver port, in June it opened a new container terminal that will ultimately double its annual capacity to 1 million TEUs. "It does seem the timing was fortuitous," said Little.
Japan shipping lines are already the second-biggest users of the Vancouver port after their U.S. counterparts.
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/ReutersNews/TRADE-JAPAN-CANADA.html

XAU/Spot Ratio = .312

Arden:

Your post regarding gold stock evaluation seems to fit Canyon Resources in all respects except the issue of capitalization. 39 million outstanding shares is about 15 million more than late 1995. Nonetheless, If you are a "believer" its better to add to your position than see the your base shares become over diluted. The use of convertible debt seems about the only way junior mining companies can capitalize new projects. I am hopeful in Canyon's case its only a growing pain phase that Richard DeVoto is guiding the company through on the way to full maturity. Your point is well made in that a 5 fold increase of this company will be almost impossible to accomplish without a strong, prolonged gold bull market. And I can't see that happening anytime in the near future if at all. But even though she may not be the prettiest girl at the party, I'm sure having fun with her!

Oh yeah, one other warning to new investors; Never get emotionally involved with the stocks you buy. HAHAHAHA

Thanks for your input.

Bird: Enjoyed your post on Japanese investors. It is also my impression that their money is mostly not in the market. If this money is freed up it will be a boon for SE Asia, as well as for the US market if we get over the current turmoil. The average Japanese is more conservative than us, so I would bet their investments would be also. I'm sure they would not be eager to bail out bankrupt firms.
Another key question is where is this money -- not in Japanese real estate, I hope.
I would guess that a number of enterprising investing firms have made a detailed investigation of the matter -- would make sense, wouldn't it?

Today's WSJ front page article "A 401 ( k ) Plan Can Give You a Nice Retirement -- Or Nice Time Today" contains an interesting quote: "In fact, a third of all workers with 401 ( k ) s currently have loans outstanding. Those most likely to borrow their retirement money are lower-income employees with fewer assets and greater debts, according to Congress's General Accounting Office."

What happens if the market corrects, reducing the loan collateral of the remainder of the 401 ( k ) ? Ouch !

Donald: did you see my post from yesterday on the 350,000 mainland Chinese firms in trouble? I wonder how many mainland Chinese firms there are! Japan and Hong Kong are expected to pick up the tab. Noone is asking the US or ECU.

October 17, 1997

The traders who work on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange will never forget Oct. 19, 1987
"Losing 1,800 points in a single day is not a likely occurrence," Richard
Grasso, chairman of the NYSE said, referring to the impact a 22 per cent
drop would have in today's market. "Over a month or two months or a year, sure, if we get into a bear market cycle."

"The bottom was falling out," said Bill Matthews, a broker with Goldman
Sachs & Co. on the day the market crashed. "But I think the really scary
thing was that we didn't know where the bottom was."

"But we do think about it," said Steve Cafaro, an independent financial
adviser who was a floor broker in 1987. "Because you never really know.
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/BizTicker/CANOE-wire.Crash-Anniversary.html

pyramid: re - 401k's, 403b's: I think one can only borrow cash, not assets off a mutual fund allocation. I hope that is not dependent on the employer to set up. Frightening thougt indeed! Retirement account "margin"!

Bird, ( and of course Donald ) I believe the news of a change of investment rules effecting Japanese investors and banks may have something to do with the question on Japanese band deregulation by Miz. I can't seem to find any news on this and it could be a big issue. If you, Donald or someone could dig something up on this it would be appreciated.

October 17, 1997
U.S. CFTC and SEC sign pact with German regulator

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - Two federal regulatory agencies and Germany's securities and futures regulator on Friday signed an agreement which provides a framework for enhanced cooperation between the two countries.
Bundesaufsichtsamt fur den Wertpapierhandel President Georg Wittich signed the agreement in separate ceremonies with Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Arthur Levitt and Commodity Futures Trading Commission Chairwoman Brooksley Born.
The pact signed is the first ever the new German regulator, only in existence since January 1, 1995, has signed with a non-European Union country, said Marisa Lago, SEC's director of the office of international affairs.
The agreement covers access to information in the files of the agencies, taking statements, obtaining information and documents and conducting compliance inspections and investigations of futures transactions and futures businesses.
In signing the agreement, Levitt said, "Sharing information between financial regulators is essential to ensure market integrity and investor protection."

Allen: here is the URL for the Currencies GaLORE:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/currencies.html

STOCKS-OFFICIAL CLOSE
NEW YORK ( Reuters ) - Prices on the New York Stock Exchange closed lower in heavy trading Friday.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 91.85 to 7847.03. For the week it lost 198.18 points.
The NYSE Composite fell 5.73 to 496.57. For the week it lost 10.28.
The average price per share fell $0.52.
Decliners beat advancers 2316 to 607.
Volume was 623,250,510 compared with 595,978,080 on Thursday. Weekly volume was 2,598,610,510.

I would like to ask some our excellant chartist to run us out the charts on the DOW, Bond, and Transports. HAS the trend changed, has a head and shoulders formed ??? Thanks in advance.

Hey Everybody

To Hell with gold.....I don't want the stock market to crash!

Not so fast, "not so tolerant". Show me the post where you accepted my wager, and I will pay up. You can trust me. After all, I'm in pre-Med!

Friday, October 17, 1997

Toronto stocks tumble nearly one percent

TORONTO, Oct 17 ( Reuters ) - Toronto stocks tumbled nearly one percent in early trade on Friday as strong economic
data and a looming trade dispute brought the bears into North American markets.
"What's driving us lower is that the economic numbers that came in a little bit stronger than the street expected. Street's a
little bit jittery anyway with the potential trade war with Japan," said Montreal-based strategist Bill Ram.
The Toronto Stock Exchange's key 300 Composite Index shed 62 points to 7029.55 in early turnover of 15.6 million shares
worth C$280 million.
All of Toronto's 14 sub-indexes lost ground, led by consumer products, golds and industrials, which all fell more than one
percent in early trade.
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/MoneyNews/oct17_torontostocks.html

I thought the phrase was:
Never try to teach a pig to sing
It wastes your time and annoys the pig

One thing Donald's Dow/gold ratio
doesn't show is direction. I would
feel much more secure buying the Dow
on Monday than buying gold, even though
the ratio fell between yesterday and today.

Hard to believe were are at a point where
325 is accepted as the prevailing price of gold.
Imagine if someone would have suggested such
a thing one year ago. Would they have been
attacked mercilessly or what? Would others
have attempted to squelch them or have them kicked
off this site. Wonder what next year holds in store
for gold if people trying to encourage others to
invest in gold remain suspicious, caustic, bitter,
deluded, and overall unpleasant people to be around?

Blue Boy - Remember when I talked about the Kitco
mfer's and how you could send the payoff to my
apartment? That was called taking you up on the bet.
Again, though, it just demonstrates that people
at Kitco are a lot of false bravado, always finding
some way to weasel out when they are proven incorrect.

Gold to 310 by 10/23/97
Dow to 8300 by 10/23/97

This thing lines up until I press the
'submit your comment' button

sig: My sentiments as well -- please -- no dollar crash, or market crash!
ALL: We should all be on the lookout for an "ultra?"-Orthodox Jewish attempt to place a foundation stone on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem on Oct 20. They already have the Red Heiffer ready for the purification ceremony, and it is being cloned just in case. Let us pray that the Israeli government stops this before we have a conflagration!
It is my impression that problems near year 2000 associated with prophesies will not come from the prophesies themselves, but by individuals determined to carry them out!
Tomorrow we will have another post from ANOTHER!

It is amazing how some can predict when
Another is going to post. Almost as if
they knew him/it. I for one will be
breathlessly hanging on every one of
another's words, especially since the
path is prepared for his arrival.
Talk about pathetic self-promotion.
Why don't we just let the gold price
speak for the utility of Another's
nonsense, as was demonstrated by
the wealth of crap shoveled by
Big Trader. Oooh, what a
manufactured mystery that was
at Kitco.

uplink terminated

Just read through today's posts and noticed no discussion of the biggest piece of news to hit the gold and silver market in years:

The government of India today fundamentally changed the laws regarding importation of gold and silver. Heretofore only three banks were allowed to import gold and silver into India. Beginning January 1, 1998 any approved bank ( currently there are 12 ) can bring gold into India and sell in rupees directly to Indian citizens. The banks may then bypass the unofficial exchange and convert the rupees directly into dollars, thereby avoiding the spreads and other costs associated with the "Omara" ( I'm sure I spelled that incorrectly, have only heard it spoken ) which is the unofficial exchange.

Currently Gold prices in India are 16% higher than world prices and silver is 24% higher than world prices. This new policy is expected to drop gold prices in India by 10% - 12%, I have no estimates of the change in price in silver yet.

What does this mean? Long term I think this is extremely bullish for both metals. Indian Citizens will wake up on the morning of January 1, 1998 to find gold 10% - 12% lower. India is an enormous consumer of gold and silver, these decreased prices can only lead to increased demand.

Before you go out and start buying up gold and silver, I think the short term affect will be very bearish. India is going into its wedding season, the highest demand period for gold. Indian dealers are effectively on a buying strike now. They have gold that will become much cheaper overnight on New Years Eve. They will want to dump their inventories and pass the costs onto consumers. We will see very little demand for gold going into India during the highest demand season.

This hits me personally. I have quite a few Indian clients who buy gold coins ( they will only buy Maple Leafs ) and send them to India with whichever friend or family member is traveling to India. The higher costs in India made this a profitable venture for them. I think this particular demand will also dry up.

I am still trying to make some sense of all this, and I will post more as I learn more. Make no mistake, this is big news! More later.

Dear Senator Blutarsky: I was not making a wager, I am not a gambler. However, do you still feel so positive about Dow 8300 and $310 gold? Of course this is a poor question to ask on a day when the Dow and other casinos went down a tad.

Not trying to bait you here, but I don't think that any one specific item will lead to the eventual end of unlimited zeal and credit expansion. It has been decaying from the inside out for a long time, today it started wheezing.

Although, since I am $9.90 away from $310 gold and 91 points further away from 8300, nah!

By the way, what did you end up doing with the blond chick with the rubber gloves that you drove off with in the convertible? Did she serve you well or did you lose her in a bet in 87?

To all: Did everyone notice that the Dow dropped faster than gold stocks? If everything hangs together, we may have our gold rally fairly soon! I wonder what it will take for the move to the exits to push the gold stocks up! A central bank sale, and gold doesn't budge?
Not for the fainthearted, however. But anyone who is a gold bug is pretty hardy, it seems!

RJ: You are right that is humungous news. I think you will really be surprised to see the great counrty of India back their currency with gold. It has been discussed, they may just do it, possibly in the next year.

RJ: Thanks much for the news about the changes in India and the probable impact on gold prices short and long term. Of course the big question is how bearish short-term and how bullish long-term?

Bart, we don't need a unique number for each "handle" - WE NEED A UNIQUE NUMBER FOR EACH PERSON! This way, no matter what handles a person lists posts under ( FooBarCat, InfantCat, EtTuCatte, InContiCat ) we'll see that it's the same abuser of Kitco's posting policy. Surely your software can scan each message for its internet source?

Well, it looks like silver found its bottom and buyers here. Gold up sharply as markets descent was not immediately reversed. I'm hopeful that we will not see below US$320 since US$324-7 seems to be a new range for us. Europe bombed just as badly if not a bit worse than we did ( equities wise ) . Accumulating interest rate pressure from Germany. US$ trending slowly down against Yen. Does look like that late trade dispute 'resolution' anouncement was the ticket to put the breaks on the slide. The Japanese have found their weapon and it is potent enough to make our government back down, eh? Re: conflicting goals of DM & Yen on US$, I think the Japanese have the powder and the guts to make the Germany see it their way. Weakening US$ ahead with some volatility as with any conflict.

Two things impressed me in today's action. 1 ) gold did finally react to the market slide with a fast, upward thrust. That says to me that we are in the neighborhood of conditions and metality to see gold react strongly in our favor should the markets tank big time. It just took a bit to get it moving. 2 ) The Japanese are ready to torpedo our markets if they are not given some breathing room. They showed they could do it and they were given a political victory. This lesson will not be lost on them. I see, possibly, a harder line from them in the immediate future which could erupt in a real trade conflict.

We have gone from 8100 region to 7875 region in two days only part of this was due to the shipping conflict. 8300 by 10/23 is not going to happen. Gold steady at US$323 to 327 range. Silver 5.00 + or -. We will pass the 'crash' anniversery quietly. Trend is downward. Should hit a few magic numbers. Efforts to hold the fort become weaker with each tepid rally. When a blind man can see that this will not turn around then we'll see a slow deterioration of confidence as the market slides lower and lower with less contention. Abrupt drop comes as we pass the -15% mark.

( The above is just noddling on my part. I have no TA to support it. Attack if you will. Laugh if you will. Cheer if you will. )

*** HERESY ALERT ***
I would like to broach the subject of when ( after a large run up in PM's and in recognition of a 1980-1 type mania in PM's ) to divest PM's in favor of other opportunities. I know its early to talk about this, but feel that we need to discuss it at this stage since emotions will run high in such times of PM mania and may cloud judgement. Any takers?

GSC and other TA types - what gauges might we use to indicate an over priced market in PM's verse other investment options?

Thoughts on money supply:

It occures to me that when we think of inflation we think of wheel barrels full of worthless paper notes. But what of this new inflation via debt expansion? It seems that Japan offers an example of a moving money machine ( 0.5% loans to banks ) which has become ineffective in keeping the economy floating. Suppose debt expansion on the part of government and loan creation on the part of CB'S continues as it has, but the price of goods is not seriously affected. They are not printing notes so it doesn't show up as a gush of bills in peoples' pockets.

I'm just trying to think this through, so please bear with me.

Most of this money is going to financial organizations which in turn are lending it to others who lend it to others until the money shows up as a purchase. OK, credit card offers. OK, home loans and equity loans. OK, housing construction and commercial real estate expansion. Capital plant improvements and expansion. US Government obligations. Equity speculation. So everyone gets up to their necks in loans: the government, corporations, individuals ( even dogs and cats! ) . This all in a rose toned world where things are always brighter tomorrow. Where there is no inflation ( reported ) . Where everyone has a job. Where every nation is fully invested in international trade and all things run smoothly and quietly.

Finally we max out. Everyone is completely extended to the last conceivable dime. Regardless of the availablitlity of credit no one qualifies for another cent of credit. Buying dries up and the focus shifts to debt repayment as the single highest priority.

Markets begin to collapse. Monetary flow decreases. Bankruptcies soar. The end credit user becomes uncredit worthy regardless of the interest rate. What then? The CB can destroy bad loans as fast as they want to but eventually they will not have anyone to loan to. Talk about "motgaging your future" right into the sink hole of deflation ( ?? Inflation ) . Not because of a lack of liquidity but because of a lack of qualified recipients of that liquidity.

Also, if you could discuss the impact "very short term"
and "very long term", and tell me why my Indian customers
also bought Pandas as well as Maples.

RJ: It's "Hawalah". The Indian underground exchange system as explained to me by an Indian IBM consultant. Maples only because they are 24k with no copper added like the eagles. Am wiped out, so sentences are choppy. BBL

I can't wait: Are you saying that ANOTHER is a regular Kitco poster?
What an interesting idea! Have you checked to see that his/her id# fits anyone elses? Also haven't you noticed his style?
Rather mysterious isn't it? Either he/she is genuine or a good fiction writer, in my opinion. Either way, I enjoy his posts because he/she makes me think! You see, it is not the truth of the posts that matters, but what can be confirmed by other methods. Anyone who trusts any single piece of information on the web is asking for trouble!
Why don't you scroll back to thursday ( yesterday ) ? Whoever it is posted his/her message about another post on Saturday.
What I enjoy is even if all of what he says is entirely made up, it is logical, and may provice clues to the truth! Intrigue!

Here's the way I see it:
All computers crash in year 2000,
widespread looting and spraying
of black-market antiperspirants
containing fluorocarbons.
Hole in ozone melts the icecaps,
everyone gets skin cancer and drowns
besides. Stock market plummets,
but people too dead to care.

Only people who believe in Gold
will not get skin cancer. Also,
boats will be provided that take
them to Big Rock Candy Mountain
where they live happily ever
after in a dream state not unlike
the one they live in currently.

RJ ( 18:04 ) Very interesting news. Here's the story from the Economic Times of India. The URL is http://www.economictimes.com/today/home1.htm

Did I mention reverse vampires and the Rand corporation
and saucer people in that last prediction? I sure meant
to. Oh, and the Illuminati and Ice 9.

Allen ( USA ) : At least I can tell you are who you are. Your comment about Japan is interesting. We probably capitulated on something with them, since they hold the cards. What do you think they want? Oil? Gold? technology? On the latter, I doubt we have much they don't already have. Intriguing questions!

My mistake -- I should have known better -- should have read the writing style before posting. Won't do that again. Logging off for now.

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Friday October 17 5:42 PM EDT

AFTER THE BELL - Stocks quiet before weekend

NEW YORK, Oct 17 ( Reuters ) - Stocks remained quiet in the after-hours session as trading began
to ebb on the last day of the week, dealers said Friday.

``There isn't much to report,'' said one of them. ``Nothing out of the ordinary.''

The New York Stock Exchange said session one had a volume of 839,500 shares compared to
one million shares on the previous day. Session two had 888,500 shares against 649,909, it said.

More news for related categories: stock capsules.


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Important Disclaimers and Legal Information
Questions or Comments?

Now look what you've done---you scared everyone away!

This from the rookie...
Seems to me that whenever inflation numbers edge higher, someone upon high decides something or other should no longer count when figuring inflation. Assuming that's true, how do we know what inflation really is here in the U.S.? All I know is that I seem to keep paying more for food, gas, entertainment, etc. Any thoughts? Or at least set me straight if I'm way off base.

NICK ( Aussie ) , ELF, EAGER NOVICE, 2 : Many thanks gang for the Haiku Festival this morning. I just caught it at home after a day out in the world...it was lovely. You're all such a great and talented bunch at Kitco.

...well, almost everyone.

RJ: Your intelligence is appreciated and noted. ( Information that is...well, uh, OK, you're INTELLIGENCE too ) . You will be our scout in India. You are hereby dispatched to the Punjab. Turn in your skirts for Jodphurs. Wrap that turban tighter troop! Dismissed. ( Your part will be played by Pierce Brosnan ) .

tolerant 1: Some clarification is in order. I don't think Gold will hit $310, or Dow to 8300 this month. Mrs. Blutarsky-nee Mandy Pepperidge- is sitting right next me now and putting on the latex gloves. I told her not to stop until I'm OVER!

New Kid: Wouldn't you think that if you payed more for food you shouldn't GET gas??!!

If things keep going like they are, all the guvmint gotta do is eliminate everything what got a price it follows, 'cept gold.

RJ you baloney weaner - you're just now catching onto the trend in India? Go back and start researching India's recent past - you will learn a great deal - yes you RJ, the KNOW IT ALL.

Mike -

Unabomber Haiku

Open your present
No, you open your present
Kaszynski Christmas

Kaszynski = Kaczynski on the Cape Breton bomb squad

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Geoff - Prick up your ears. Listen to
NJ for once.

Why don't you reach for an atlas, Baloney Wearer, um weaner,
weimeraner, whatever. It's spelled India, and it's appearing in
every major encyclopedia, even Funk & Wagnall's. You act
like you know everything, but you can't even sell Pandas to
a Brahman.

Mr. Hepcat: Well well, in rereading the posts from Oct. 6, it seems you DID accept the $100 wager. Name your charity and I will send $100 in my name to it. If you prefer, I will send the money to the address of your choice. My valid e mail address: SenatorBlutarsky@usa.net ( I don't have your address )

Hey Ball oney - Why don't you do some traveling outside
of circling your navel? Who gives a rat's ass how big
your company is? It's not the size of the company you
keep, it's the size you keep in your company.

And Sprint went down. Right after I posted message #2. Did anyone else go down because of it?...or was it some lame excuse by my ISP provider.

J-Mark - Take profits or short...and don't do it because I said. Do it because you did your homework. There is still lots-o-corn...and the farmers got their higher prices they wanted. They will Not get over 3 bucks for abundant corn. imo. ( i wrote this last night but there is still time to short come monday )

elf & Bernatz - Les Translations?

Nick ( aussie ) - thanks for the kind words and I do not deserve them. There are too many fine people here to pick anybody out of the crowd. And I like to fish and I can't catch a damn thing but a buzz on the beers. Those fish see me comin'...and laugh.

Yellow Jacket ( esteemed-Kitco-colleague ) - shame on you. You do not know of astrology as much as I don't know the stress levels of steel beams in sky-rises. I have posted this several times and here it goes again...

For all men strive to grasp what they do not know, while none strive to grasp what they already know; and all strive to discredit what they do not excel in, while none strive to discredit what they do excel in. This is why there is chaos". chuang-tzu

Now go and repent...

JTF ( astrophysisistDude ) - You seem a well rounded scientist and it looks as though you have seen the light and know that there is still much darkness that abounds there...thanks for your stance on the unseen and unknown...

MikeS - forgive them...they know NOT...

Ted - Good job on the Stox sales ( talk about some capital gains ) ...you know things...Dudeski...

Gunrunner - Where has the parrotHead gone to now. psssssst...JYZ7...there is time left...fins to the right...

Aurator ( written now ) - I was able to read your loooony post last night. That was an excellent piece of work. I was up last night only to be shut down. I like "hangin'" w/ the Southerners late night.

away...to be away


http://satellite.nikkei.co.jp/enews/SPECIAL/bigbang/bigbang0.html

Senator - just the fact that you admitted it is payment
enough for me. Send the check to your favorite charity,
six degrees from Kevin Bacon.

All - Now wasn't that easy? If only Mooney and that
doofus who runs that Fortune 500 company would admit
that they lost bets to me, I would absolve them of
their debts as well. As it is, they'll have to
answer for them in the afterlife.

The trend is changing on Wall Street. New Highs/lows on NYSE 57/60 on NSDAQ 98/77

This is the first in a long time that there are more new lows than highs on NYSE. Sure does not support that 8300 in a few days ;- )

I am sure that frustrates our Cat so much that he is also reaching the new low in his use of language and verbal attacks in his posting

Re: Recent comments on India's gold
liberalization. I think, the recent
announcement goes a little beyond what was
announced a few months ago, but much of it is
probably already factored in the gold importer's
plans. So, I don't expect a large short term
effect. In any case, Jan.1 is not that far off,
considering the speed at which things happen in
India. Since imported gold will be still
subject to an import duty ( about 20 USD /oz ) ,
the difference in price after the effective date
will be closer to 5 percent than 10 percent.

Another wildcard is the exchange rate. While
many Asian currencies, ( most recently
Pakistan's ) have devalued significantly in
recent months, Indian Rupee has been relatively
steady, having depreciated only about 2 percent
vs US dollar. This is in spite of weak exports,
largely on the strength of foreign exchange
reserves, which have held up nicely due to
investment inflows. The government is under
pressure to devalue the Rupee to maintain export
competitiveness. If the Rupee depreciates
within the next couple of months, then the
Indian public may not see even a 5 percent
drop in gold prices, assuming the gold price in
US dollars stays the same ( ha ha ) .

It is true that the gold dealers in US/Canada
will get less retail business from Indians, but
the overall Indian gold consumption will not be
reduced, and will probably increase slightly.

Away, for the weekend

Bonds

Dow Jones weekly with volume.

8300 ( har har har ) You must of made millions in the market when not going on your wild and crazy trips to Mexico with your fictional friends ( har har har ) low-life apartment dweller= internet TRASH but then again it is apartment ( A ) 3-1-0 ( har har har ) what else does your demented crystal ball say dooooofus

S&P-500 with 'spiffy' :- )

Looks like the trouble forecast has materialized, now... the extent and duration?

Is there a daily synopsis of the new york market activity like the Bridge News for Gold/Silver etc each day?

eb--
dang, did'nt make your list!
good thing....

what did the fed do in the years preceding the great
crash of ... whenever.. ( 29? ) . they inflated the money supply ( 40+% )
and there-by made credit THE way to play. look at the parallels
juxta-posed into our current situation. what do you see
grass-hopper? what happens when there is financial strife
within stable, modern ( politically ) [sic],wealthy countries?
the wealth is taken from the middle class, and they lose another
10' of the 20' they have left. this next stock crash ( whenever ) ( monday )
has the same roots as the first one. jp morgan was accused, and rightly
so, of orchestrating the '29 crash. who cares who caused it, the fact
is, and remains, the blood of the paper-tiger will flow again, and
its' riders will grin-till-the-end------
fyi- the senator heading the investigation into WHAT/WHO caused
the '29 crash was ASSASINATED for no determinate REASON! and THEY
never determined who/why HE was killed. duhhhhhhh----


cherokee!; ) ridin-the-ether-squirtin-at-ALL-liberals!

Time for a little Looooooie....Welcome back EB ( this ISP thingy must be contagious! ) go tribe....

Donald, I couldn't help using the time of your post: ) Many thanks for the article on Japan. I will keep looking for further information on this deregulation issue and I will be watching your posts as usual. You are a human search engine.

Still lurking around. Kitco is deteriorating again. Rack off Hepcat.
Some interesting news items for your perusal. Our ante-natal classes are going fine. 8 weeks to go. The heat is on....

The Maverick:
Led by Wall Street, the world has been gripped
by an investment mania that is starting to fray at the
edges, writes Gerry van Wyngen.
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971018/market/markets2.html

Ten years after the crash - How not to lose your shirt ( again ) :
Whether you're a long-term investor or an active
trader, there is a strategy to help you cope with a
market fall. John Wasiliev offers a blueprint to
coping with volatility.
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971018/smart/smart1.html

Greenspan fends off another disaster:
US Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan
loves working in the hot-tub. Now he's doing
everything he can to stop world markets taking
another bath.
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971018/perspective/perspective2.html

Should we burst the asset price bubble?
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971018/business/business10.html

Phili semi-conductor index ( just under 20% of this is Intel )

No economic data but lots of earnings reports on Monday, including Barrick. Wondering who all will be rounded up as usual suspects to explain the drop in DJIA. http://www.dbc.com/cgi-bin/htx.exe/newsroom/calendar.html?source=core/dbc

Internationally acclaimed & venerable Mr. Inger shares his market insights & wisdom with us. Lately hes been VERY HOT - VERY HOT! Per Ingers Worst case scenario is DOW could drop 30%:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/inger1020.html

Cheech or Chong...don't know which ;- )

I have said it before... you see things... When I mentioned to Nick that I am just a 'bag-of-bones' when compared to the Greatness here I was referring to the likes of the great cherokee and his floatsamm-motesamm-boatsamm thingy. ( eb says while bowing his head below the Chief's ) I read your 'low-healed-sparks' with the same "intensities, in ten cities" ted nugent

in other words...I'm diggin' you too baby!!

sometimes you leave me with a loss for words...

away...to receive smoke-signals from the yellow rose...


Thanks. And we moved our entire optical lab/store in 48hrs. We are back at the grind...h M! Seeing my back cracker tomorrow.

Now, I've got five bucks ( US no CAN ) and the Marlins...straight up, winner take ALL! ;-$ )

Jimmy Leland is gonna ROCK!

away...to roll my loose change ;- )


DJIA Chart - That beast is a scary looking thing.

My first thoughts...

What goes up...!

away...to come down...


NJ -- Don't write this market off just yet. If you take a look at my S&P chart with the new high/low ratios on it, you'll notice that the h/l ratios spiked down. This is a sign of intense fear, not necessarily lasting fear. The embargo situation has, apparently, been 'settled'. What a surprise, eh?

One more thing. Local high tech companies are hiring like crazy. But they are hiring temps to handle the work load because they aren't sure how long the 'boom' will last. Then, when things slow down, they lay these people off in a heart beat. Overhead is GONE. Expect earnings to boom in Q4 for the semiconductor companies and the test equipment makers like TER.

Overall, I have to say that it doesn't look good for gold here. Even with all of warnings about M2 supply and inflation. We all know it's here, but that's not what counts. What counts, is what Wall Street believes. Physical gold looks a lot better to me here. That's not to say that gold won't continue its' slide. Perhaps this is the choppy trading range of a 'bottom'? The gold stocks will whither here if gold continues to languish at these levels. The few sellers will be setting the prices at the margins here. Hence my belief in the physicals being a qaulified 'better' at this juncture. All of this. IMVHO, of course! Now watch gold zoom on Monday... :- ) )

Enough of the long ramblings................. Away?

 -- It's truly amazing, isn't it? I think a period of 'consolidation' is due here and then one more attempt to top the August highs. I think that the next Fed meeting my have something to say about the future stock moves. Away! To November, to read my future editions of the WSJ and IBD... in October. :- ) )

Today was a classic example of what can happen when greed turns into fear! Only problem is that NO ONE IS AFRAID!! Not Louis Yukeyser! Not Myron Kandel! Not Lou Dobbs! Not Bill Seidman! Not even normally fearful Marty Zweig! All agree! Today was simply another hiccup on the way to DOW 10,000 by the middle of '98!! NOW I'M REALLY WORRIED!!! This paper witch
burnin' has only just begun and won't quit till EVERYONE IS SCARED SCHEISLESS!! Including Louis Yukeyeser and the infantile little arschlochs who keep trying to interfere with this illustrious site and exhibit their anti-social hate speech vs. my esteemed Kitco freunds, Mike Sheller and George S. Cole et al. Anybody who doubts that this paper witch burnin' has MUCH FURTHER to go need only look at the horrible chart of the infallible indicators of indicators--THE MCLELLAN OSCILLATOR and the MCLELLAN SUMMATION INDEX a lagging smoothed summary of the aforementioned oscillator. For all you budding technicians out there in Kitcoland these indicators topped out six months ago!! And are now heading back down into the flames of of fiery technical destruction together with all worthless paper promises! Meine Freunde, wir sind in deep doo doo!! Should Ralph Acompora be wrong about bouncing off of DOW 7600, we's definitely going back to test 7200!! And if that fails--well, it was fun while it lasted! Now the GOLDEN RULE will reign supreme! Them's that got the gold will rule! Them's that got paper will get burned together with their brokers! Its gotta' be this way because HUMAN NATURE IS A CONSTANT!! GREED ALWAYS GIVES WAY TO DOUBT! THEN FEAR! THE PANIC! AND FINALLY CAPITULATION! Right now we're just beginning stage one! But methinks that within six months we'll be at stage four! The blood'll be running in the streets by then and gold will be bid outa sight! Catch the vision! Buy GOLD and GO FISHIN'!

By the way, Paul Kangas just reported that the desert dirt of all desert dirts, IPMCF just reported a huge gold find at their mine? in AZ. Closed today at 6 3/32. Anybody know more about this? Or is this America's answer to Bre-Ex?

Apparently, the fact that I posted some info today that was new to me - and the world before today - pissed a few people off. This place is really going to the shits, and they can have it. Who needs this? A bunch of broke no-nothings add naught to this forum but spite. I've got better things to do. I'm gone until these assholes are out of here or some registration system is required.

Donald - thanks so much for your link on Japanese deregulation. You are incredible! This deregulation will have some important impacts. I'm not sure what they will be yet though.

Forgot to wish all unsern infantile little arschlochs hidin' here at Kitco a "HAPPY HALLOWEEN!" May all your nasty little tricks here at Kitco be treated with more of the same by someone with even less class than your'n!

You're gonna miss me... ( wink-thing )

away


Golden Cheesehead: IPMCF has not had final approval from their independant verification services as far as I know. The verification program has been completed. The results have not been released to the best of my knowledge.

I have been in IPMCF for quite some time now and follow it closely. If you would like to investigate further www.ipmcf.com to connect to their web site.

Hope you find this helpful.

Somebody is taking silver out of the COMEX stocks:

COMEX SILVER WAREHOUSE STOCKS: PART 2


-- SILVER
-- ( Quoted in Troy Ounce )
Depository
Net. Adjust- Total
Chg. ment Today
CHASE MANHATTAN
Registered
0 0 18,745,396
Eligible
0 0 6,460,717
Total
0 0 25,206,113
IRON MOUNTAIN
Registered
0 0 3,310,083
Eligible
-599,795 0 4,708,528
Total
-599,795 0 8,018,611
MORGAN GUARANTY
Registered
0 0 3,621,240
Eligible
0 0 4,110,083
Total
0 0 7,731,323
REPUBLIC NATIONAL
Registered
-656,220 3,010,734 31,865,694
Eligible
0 3,010,734 11,364,468
Total
-656,220 0 43,230,162
SWISS BANK CORP.
Registered
0 0 770,442
Eligible
0 0 3,041,430
Total
0 0 3,811,872
WILMINGTON TRUST
Registered
0 0 275,700
Eligible
1,989 0 46,248,929
Total
1,989 0 46,524,629
TOTAL REGISTERED
-656,220 3,010,734 58,588,555
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
-597,806 -3,010,734 75,934,155
COMBINED TOTAL
-1,254,026 0 134,522,710

End

10/17/97 14:46:38

Copyright 1997 by Futures World News
All Rights Reserved.

RJ - Hope you reconsider -- it may take Bart some time ( a few days ) to change things.

Batteries & Spam ( #323144 ) - LGB that sure sounds like you. Or is it a hepcat immitation of LGB? Anyway no one gets to go to candy mountain its al bought out with cheap loan money soon to be repossessed. What happens when peoplecan't qualify to borrow any more?

JTF - Maybe Japan would like to be treated as an equal partner rather than a junior partner.

HEM - That's what I was thinking as well. India will take its savings and buy more gold with it. A 10% savings will simply be a 10% increase in quantity. As for tarif on imports @ US$20/Oz.

Relax RJ you'll still sell a few coins. Maybe not as many but these folks still don't want to pay even the few extra $$. BTW why don't you get these folk to import for you and split the difference with 'em. Seems like you could be in the money with 1 Bln Indians as customers, eh?

Golden Cheesehead: Do you have any further info on IPMCF. When did P. Kangas issue his statement. Did he say that the company announced this information late this afternoon or this evening.

Any help with the above is most appreciated.

Good ridance!

Donald: Still there? Any comments about the situation in China? Perhaps you posted and I didn't notice.
Also the DOW/XAU should have dropped -- am I right? Our "paper"/"paper gold" index should be showing that although stocks churned and dropped, gold stocks ddropped less. A good sign!

New Kid on the Block: ( 18:52 ) My take on the inflation rate is approximately 5-6%, using my own expenses for essentials over the last few years. Did you see the posts yesterday on this regarding the CPI?
Better to use the cry0 or JOC index ( smoothed over several months ) because it is harder to cook these indicators like the CPI has been cooked. Did you see all the activity a few months ago by our illustrious leaders, who said that the CPI overstated inflation? You see - social security payments are indexed to the CPI.

BART please get some kind of registration in here to cut out the nonsense.

Your news on Indias Gold policy will definitely unfold interestingly in the future.
Thanks for the post.

5-6% is probably too low and as you say the government has a vested interest to downplay the extent of inflation....My Vermont property taxes are definently going up more than 5-6%/year....ditto insurance ect ect..

Golden Cheesehead:

Rukeyser, Zweig and all the rest of the talking heads are closer to being right than wrong in their bullish forecast. And a 10% correction makes the DOW stronger than ever, as most of the gains in the economic output of the nation are permanent. Nothing short of war or widespread civil unrest will change this condition. In fact, we are living in the most peaceful period this century. Nations of people throughout the world are living happier lives than ever as they work toward improving their fortune. Profit driven communication technologies will continue to wear away at our cultural differences and at the same time provide additional defensive security to even the smallest nations. More international trade with more democratic nations improves our wellbeing. The twin engines of modern economics and democratic politics rules.

Peter: I don't see how registration will cut out any of the nonsense as you call it. Just try to ignore it. The more you pay attention to it, the worse it will get.

Tolerant1--Heard about IPMCF tonight at 8:00 PM on Nightly Business Report. Didn't quite catch it all, but thought I heard Paul Kangas say that the State of AZ Attorney General? warned investors not to place too much stock in IMPCF's announcement this afternoon of a major gold find on their AZ mine property. They are of the opinion that this company could be a huge scam since their gold separation technique from the dirt cannot yet be demonstrated or replicated by outside agencies. Sorry, that's all I know! Cheesehead