Just dropped in - didn't review the last day so I may be off on who said what. Can't understand the fascination with who George Cole is or what he's saying. He has an opinion just like everyone else. He's not a guru, nor an idiot. He contributes in a non-destructive way and I, for one, have always taken the time to read his posts. As for where he is now, it seems obvious that, in style and content, he's now using the handle "Old Gold."

Afraid not, George took the correct tack and cut out when Hep-Cat and those drunken Gays were harassing everyone. I responded a couple of times, then thought better of engagement with a bunch of drunken screwballs, so I just shut up and lurked for a while. That was a pretty tough couple of days. I copied some of the trash that was posted that night and e-mailed it to Bart. I had some doubt about registration - not any more.

Why are you so focused on George?

Earl it has been claimed that in the event of a polar meltdown New England and Maine etc. would be one of the best spots on Earth to Await the catastrophic earth changes that would take place such as 3000 foot Tsunami etc. It is thought the earth my shift its polar axcess point as has happen several times before in the life span of the earth. If this were to take place Ted new island hope could be tropical.

Tis midnight here and the Three Stooges are on the boob tube! This is followed by Bible thumping, end of the world stuff later... BARTENDER!!!! Perhaps a shot of Rum is in order here...

To all a good night, and maybe I'll look at those charts again in the morning. ( Thank God for spell checkers! Also no cops for driving under the influence on the information highway..... :- ) Goood nighht all! )

Ya guys just gotta start earlier ( crooked grin thing ) .......CherOkee: Good sh!t~~~~~~~

G'nite~~~~~~~~~~~go three stooges!

Now yer talkin...Don't know ...i'll see the doc on monday afternoon...they could keep me on blood thinners for several months or Life ....which ever ends first ....Beer being a natural blood thinner would be better I suppose...but it is tough getting the dossage stable as you can see here...I hope to pound a few pints down under in 1998 duriing your winter...we'll see.

Do you feel some of the aussie gold stocks are as low as they can go and still be viable vehicles for investment.

Allen ( USA ) -- best post in a while, mate. One day the ugly duckling is going to turn into a beautiful swan. Just listen to all the quacking and cackling on this site when that happens.

Ted-- You're not movin' to Scatological Island, mate?? Hope they've got a server that 'works' so we don't lose you.

Now that would be interesting, cameras! Why not? Lets ask Bart, can't be that difficult to do.
We can start with black and white, they are not to expensive.

Of course this could get ugly - literally!

Peter would be able to identify G.S.C. and that would put him at ease.

I would have to clean the place ( and me ) up a little, but what the heck. Worth a try?

I wonder how many FBI, CIA, seals and logos we would see in the background? You know they have a couple hundred people working computers in the White House - Christmas list.

Ted ( Global whining: Fine. Now that the technical details are settled our remaining concern will be to find you sober and coherent when the big moment arrives. No small matter, gorging as you will, on all those obscene profits issuing from your wise investment in ABX. In the meantime, Panda and I will be equally situated, some distance from the high water mark, wallowing in an excess, only available, via our enviable position in SWC and a bountiful Providence.

I have to agree with what other people are saying. What the gold market needs is for all the gold mining companies to band together and form a cartel and drive the price of gold up to a more realistic value.

Earl:.....Don't rub it in buddy.....turnin 15,000 into 11,somethin in 8-9 months ain't bad ( silly grin thing ) ----but that is only on PAPER....and I ain't sellin till I get a profit.......

You should know better...Way to much bandwidth would be needed for video...If you think it gets slow around here now just wait for that...still B&W single frame capture would do very well. I am certain that Santa will bring everyone a new Digital Camera for their pc...you could just load a still shot like panda does his charts.

We have already had a substantial up move in the best stocks here. Normandy ( NDY ) -world's 4th biggest. Heaps of cash in the bank, exploration acreage,forward sales @A$600-700.Others I particularly like are Lihir ( LHG ) -only 40% sold forward so look out above on gold price rise. Acacia ( AAA ) ,Delta ( DGD ) --gold plus platinum ( big price rise the last few days ) ,Reolute Resources ( RSG ) .

Those are my top picks--but let's face it, when the gold price recovers you could throw darts at a list of gold stocks and make a mint!!!If gold tanks further, however, you would want to hold shares that will survive--thus the recommendation for quality.

They say red wine is good for the heart, mate.

PrivateInvestor: I would assume that the transition from polar axis A to polar axis B, would result in bit of sloshing as equilibrium is reestablished. Not entirely unknown, in these periodic flip flops. Hell, even the whales may encounter a bit of motion discomfort. Perhaps to the point of disgorging their morning's herring ration in Ted's living room. It's easy to envision any number of unsettling outcomes. On the way to a tropical paradise, of course.

will be leavin the 'air-ways' from 3/1 to approx 10/1----but then will be back with a reliable ( what's dat? ) freckin ISP ( a novel concept---something that actually works! ) ...........go Fosters....

You may want to do a tax sale and wash it off against the house or other trades then buy it back before it is to late. If you are worried about it popping within thirty days email me and I'll tell you a trick.

eh.......Earl~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Don't do 'tricks' ( grin thing )

Got to play Saint Nick today-- ( thought this site could always use another Nick ) I made the rounds to my friends and handed out gifts. Quite heart warming it was. I purchased 1/4 oz. Maple Leaf Gold coins. These came with a small purple drawstring bag with the Maple Leaf symbol emblazoned on it. You should have seen the reactions! These are folks who probably have never even seen pure Gold, much less owned any. Lots of hugs and kisses--and that was from the guys!-- ( ha ha just kidding ) I swear their eyes lit up like a Christmas tree! It was really something to watch them hold the Gold in their hands and stare at it in awe. There truly is an aura surrounding Gold.

Gazebo: Yer really Farfel with a new handle. Right? ( grin thing )

Personal Investor: Fine, personal vanity being what it is, we will all post our graduation photos. This will be the most youthful ( appearing ) forum on the net. All with no physical sign of 'hard miles and poor maintenance'.

I hope someone got it because we will owe this forever or until we print enough money to kill all our other investments.

Watch out for that alcohol, it is not worth it. I have lost a few friends to it - heart problems. They warned us of the liver problem but no one ever tells us about the heart and other problems it creates. Thirteen years ago on a visit to the doctor, I had high blood pressure, my doctor after seeing the numbers ask if I drank? With a straight face I answered,  I have been known to have a few scotches now and then. I was sure my wife had said something to him, she hadnt. He said, he had a patient who was a beer drinker with high blood pressure - he quit and his blood pressure dropped to normal. I quit now I am normal - well my blood pressure is. And honestly I don't miss my old friends Dewars & Soda or Black Jack Daniels w/ a light beer for a chaser.

Creative people are compulsive by nature if they drink they drink a lot, if they smoke they smoke a lot - if they like Gold they.........well you get the idea.

PrivateInvestor take care of your self.
You do want to see $1000 Gold don't you?
I do not know the nature of your problem and
I hope you are not offended with this post.

Later, I have to get some rest my sons are coming home tomorrow for Christmas.
They are coming from each coast - I really am looking forward to their visit.

Good Night
HighRise

For Cmax - I dont care where you come from - I just dont take to you.

Have some oatmeal.

For Panda - you mentioned that jewellery was not so important vis-a-vis

Platinum ?? It makes up about 40 % of demand - a shade more than

auto catalyst. Also Japan takes almost 40 % of world platinum. Thus, it

is sensitive to problems in Japan in a big way.

For Tolerant1 - I cant help but get the feeling that you dont like

Karlito much. Am I wrong ?

Auric: Sorry I missed you. Wish you had called ahead. ..... Perhaps you have started a trend.

Great post. In the last year I have read every reason imaginable in this forum as to why Gold should go up. All I know is that my PM stocks are down on average 68% - enough to make a 1926 veteran whince.

I have kept out the market- for the very reasons you mentioned- ie I was too smart to buy at these prices, and told everyone who would hear. "What business would you pay 30X the gross profit for" ) , and yet they, the leemings, instead of falling off the cliff into the ocean, have fallen onto a bed of feathers. Happily counting their mutual fund winnings.

I have often felt like throwing it in and joining them but I still hold out encouraged by my Kitco 12 step-group.

My name is... I am a Goldy...I have lost badly. I will not jump from high buildings, or even succumb and buy MSFT.

Best wishes.

Earl--I knocked on your door but no one answered. Next year, I'll just come down your chimney and deliver the Gold. Er, with one condition attached-- NO KISSES!!

For Tolerant1

I cant help feeling you dont like Camdessus either. ??

"Fatha" John Disney - Founder of "Banker's Town"

G'day Vertigo. On Monday double your holdings. Then you'll only be down 34%. Therefore, you'll only feel half as bad as you do now and make twice as much when gold soars. Who knows, one day you may even get back to where you started. Of course if gold keeps going down , then one day you may be 68% down again. Back to where you are right now!! If this makes sense, I've got a nice little bridge in Brooklyn goin' for a song and...

Auric: Deal!

No, you are not wrong.

A reverse hanging. a rusty hook throught the cahones, then remove the support mechanism

Actually I am waiting for the Dow to go over 8200 again so I can get in right at the peak, there's nothing quite like riding something right down at the rate Gold has dropped this year. I will be able to tell my grandchildren, I was there- and in it- and I still went to work, even on days when knew I'd already lost more than I would make that week, before I even got to work.

........................................

Vertigo: Alas, it is a common tale and true but, know that you are among friends. Even if you should pick a fight or two. ...... Holding well defined, objective opinions ( is such possible? ) can get expensive. Especially when fixation outweighs good sense.

I believe strongly that we can all look back a month from now and see that gold has risen to the 325/oz. range. Unfortionately, the long term prospects for further increases will be minimal at best unless the dollar slides in value against other key foreign currencies. I do believe that the mining companies should band together to form a cartel to protect the value of the precious metal.

I thought I would pass on to you the latest info I got RE their tax situation. I talked to a Ms. Gatti last Thurs & asked if there was any resolution in sight. I assume you are aware that the Ont. gov't along with revenue Canada won't accept their treatment of cap gains. This has been dragging on for at least 3 yrs now. Anyway, according to Ms. Gatti they are hopefull that they may reach a settlement within 3-6 months. I've owned the warrants off & on for years but never went into the stock in a meaningful way because of tax treatment uncertainty. The gist of what I understood is that rev Canada objected mainly to their accouting for bullion transactions as cap gains & wants them to be treated as income. BGR has a contingency fund for a possible settlement & as you know trades at a pretty steep discount to NAV. I felt encouraged enough to buy some BGR on Fri. If they can settle this tax thing without too big of a hit, then I really like their chances for big gains if this au bull ever gets going.
Good luck.

thats why God---I mean Adobe---created photo shop...everyone could doctor up photos real well.

G'nite all~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jack--there is a better torture for Mr.Cam. Tie him down in a chair and put CNBC on at high volume.

WAKE UP TED!!!!!!

PrivateInvestor: I'm familiar with the process. You wouldn't believe my passport photo. ...... Adonis. From the collar up. ......it would take an eternity to doctor the rest. Have to do it in manageable sections.

And so abientot, that Monday may bring us glee rather than the usual misery..

No offense taken. The meds are due to DVT...some clots in the leg...due to a possible broken foot and remaining seated during long flights and drives. Booze also acts as a thinner...the real cause of the problem was gold...

because if my gold stocks had not continued to tumble I would not have kicked the wall which fractured the foot and created the clot which then got stuck while ,,,you get the picture....Thanks for the input...it is very true...have a Good Xmas

vertigo ( Earl, Nick et al ) : ..... paroxysmal vertigo, more likely.

I think the key to everything is

nothing in excess....everything in moderation...

Silver wil be $100.00/oz within the next 5 years. 85% of all the silver comes as a byproduct of gold and copper mining. If the gold mines shut down and copper is not reclaiming silver because of the new SX-EW technology, where will the silver come from then? Nowhere. Prices will rise astronomically. The Hunt brothers saw it, but hte were too early. The new silver-oxide glass is replacing many fiberglass insulations in new buildings. There is not enough silver in the world to satisfy the requirement for all the new construction glass in the world today. Not counting the approx. 199 other new application each year for silver from Apple computers to videos. Almost every hight tech product uses some silver. This is absolutely the time to jump on the bandwagon. Silver is leaving the station.

Vertigo: Actually, the increasing number of reports of long lead times for coins is encouraging. 'N although I haven't taken the trouble to plot the damn thing, I get the impression that retail markups on coins are increasing a bit. Maybe we are witness to the early stage of some useful activity.

Thanks to photo shop many courts in these United States do not accept photo graphic evidence...and with the latest out of the FBI crime lab...rightly so...speaking of photos & graphic lic....this 401K program I was reviewing has this large graphic of gold coins and bars with the heading income funds. So I think great they can at least to some bottom fishing in the gold funds ....Nay none of the 155 offered funds has a single troy oz according to morningstars latest breakdowns.

I was told by several coin dealers that they are hedged and covered and to get even in excess of 100 + coins would take no more than one week and it would be sold at the price on the day it is ordered. They make their profit on the premium...up to 20% on 1/4 oz coins. Business was booming they all said. I think each city is different...just as every dealer is...some are just hoping the price will pop between now and when the magical week ends and they are adding to invetory at todays rock bottom prices. Most were honest enough to tell me that tey were not well enough capitalized to worry about price flucuations theyn cover it onthe next order.

Nick- You selling my bridge??
Called the local coin dealer just to check and he had 9 Krugerrands in stock @ 315 each!!! Seemed a bit steep but he said they were selling.

Just because silver bullet train left the station does not mean the gold train will follow on sched.

I think the CB's will continue to sell / loan for a bit longer.

Just got a new system tonight.....Trying it out......The old one was too slow to follow your messages....BESIDES I WANTED TO PLAY!
If any kitco"s need physical metals, will be happy to guide you to a source, Yes, I am a Bullion & Rare coin dealer BUT, I only deal in very large quantities......SO ....if you need a silightly smaller transaction, will be happy to help guide you to a source..I have so much fun reading your messages ........It's absolutely worth it!

PS....Computer nuts...I'm trying out a newHP-8190 300mgh/PII WOW!

To All

I really like the way we are becoming more aggressive

and nasty on this site. And the dynamics are marvellous.

We're gravitating into groups - like TEAMS.

Lets choose up sides - I wanna call the team Im on

the "Golden Gods" - I suggest the opposition be called

the "Pompous Toads" -

Okay Karlito - you pick for the TOADS - take cmax

I am in the market for some coinage...I was looking for some bags of lightly circulated...or very large amounts of bullion coin...finally got a call from Blanchard the other day but I was down with the Flu...I would be happy to compare bid and ask.

Just thought you might want to know that the New York Mayor
today is actually selling ( I kid you NOT ) THE BROOKLIN BRIDGE.
Bids will start at $25,0000 and you will actually get your name on a
special plaque on said bridge. Believe it or not. Just happened today.

John Disney- I could no longer take the bitter fued between you and Haggis. So I did the sensible thing and booked a ticket to SA to see which of you is correct about SA. Tour a few mines, look at few projects; besides I hear it is Summer down there.

you mentioned the RSA mining reference book earlier...what is the publication date/sched. and which publisher puts it out again.

Nap time BBL

I hate to fart in the elevator as it is going up, but I have just received a newsletter that has made reasonably good predictions in the past ( Stockmarket Indicator by George Cochran ) .

"Gold fell through a 12 year support line early in 1997 and we have been predicting major falls to come. Resistance has been met at $US280 and can be expected at $250, with further falls likely".

As we are mostly all gold bugs, I thought it might be useful to use a mirror to peer around our blinkers from time to time.

give me a call tommorow at 602-234-3747 office or E-Mail @ moneyshop@msn.com
I'll try to help you in any way!
Barb Hughes

Hate to say it but it sounds correct to me...Let us face facts..the current CB's of Europe have no reason to hold gold if they feel they will in the future be required to be the errand boys of zee Germans & French...

Everyone on this site is always screaming about backing fiat with gold ...what for... so some other Central bank can demand it at the pegged rate...hopefully that little part of American History will not repeat...we lost 50% of our gold that way from IKE to Nixon....that is/was plain stupid...the dollar is backed by gold isn't it ...it merely floats ... today it is at say $290...because $290 USD will damn sure get you an OZ...monday it may be at $285...or even $385...market forces set the prices...and it is not based upon producer production like most comodities...it is based upon free flow of above ground stocks...that is because it is much more than a commodity it is real money... always has been always may be...with the CB's cutting each others throats ...GREED may throw us into a classic deflatioary spiral that will not be easy to get out of with alot of pain. greed of the CB's..Greed of the stock market makers...Greed...Greed

You know the same guys that walked for the murder of the KIWI gentleman that was on the boat at the wrong place at the wrong time...and the frogs were not well trained enough in "their trade craft to pull of a job without collaterial dammage" To bad they threaten to pull a few stories out of the black bag about other countries black OPS that would not look to good in the court of public opinion...so the KIWI's let em go...At least that is hoew I remember it...correct me if Im wrong but I smell a frog.

Dear HighRise,

Moderate drinking is very useful for heart.

Good drinks are: "Pure" Vodka - from $16/bottle and up
French and Armenian Cognac
Dry Red and White wines

Bad drinks are: Whisky and Brandy
Sweet Wines
Beer in large quantities

and very important - NEVER MIX these babies together!

Will provide detailed recommendations upon request.

Just exhausted my ideas on gold, guns and politics, but still
want to post something... sorry for being so bad and politically
incorrect...

Thank you.

If your serious, not just poping at the jaw.....I will help you....If your just talking to be heard............let the masses take care of you.....I have no patience!!!!! Life is too short...And as a female would put it ........I'am too well set to D?CK with you but.....too DALLAS Lady Like to CAST YOU Tottaly aside..............!!!!!!!!!!!

I am in a quandry. My Aussie gold stock charts say that gold has bottomed. My gold charts are still in downtrend. Maybe gold has bottomed in $A but not in $US. That means gold in $US could have further to fall but that the $A will fall even faster. Whatever, I am a trader, and never saw a profit I didn't like. I will be selling into any rally and will then wait for the next opportunity. If gold takes off without me--no worries. I'll get back in on the swings. If gold skyrockets ( ala ANOTHER ) I will be trying to jump on to a speeding locomotive. I have actually made money in the worst bear market in gold's history ( thanks to the put god ) . Don't know where to from here. Just have to stay on yer toes.

I also think Asia is oversold and will bounce back. You could win on won, but baht may be better, if not you can ringgit your neck. Sorry, but my wife has just forced half a bottle of strawberry champagne down my throat to get me into the Christmas spirit. I feel my resistance weakening.

For private eye

Publication consists of a quarterly plus a monthly - published by

Mining Journal Ltd - 60 Worship Street,London,EC2A 2HD - phone

44 171 216 6060 - web site http://www. mining-journal.com/mj

email goldservice@mining-journal.com

ONLY just relized they had a web site - Ill try it myself.

subscription costs 225 quid a year or 400 $

for Oris - Hey I appreciate the thanks - but what did I do good ?

for Nick -

Before you decide that gold has more to fall -

take a look at it in dmarks,swiss,and stirling - a fierce decline

in a narrow channel over the last couple of months - These channels

are too steep to be sustainable much longer and gold seems to testing

the top of the down trend channel now.

If you look at gold in terms of oz of silver, the au/ag ratio has

fallen from a peak of about 76 to around 47 ( I forget the precise numbers )

but the ratio of the peak to the new low is almost exactly a fibo -

0.618 or 1.618.

I had thought that gold would fall a lot more, and it still may. But I

tend to believe that we may now have an intermediate rally.

Just some things to think about before you jump.

By the way, what do you think of Ramsgate resources?

G'day John. I like to be a devil's advocate for myself every now and then. I agree--gold is due for a good bounce.

Ramsgate ( RGR )
229,000,000 on issue
Fri close @.045cents
volume 672,400 ( one for 662,400 and the other 10,000 ) Somebody likes 'em.
Chart looks like they are forming a double bottom--now very close to year lows.

Will check 'em out further to see how much is real and how much is blue sky + cash/debts/who owns 'em etc. First impression--chart looks good.

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/97/12/21/stifgnmid02001.html?1124027

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971218/oil_asia_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971219/emerging_debt_weaken_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/971219/s_p_16.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/971218/thomson_financial_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971220/malaysia_thailand_tr_3.html

http://www.enter.net/~rsauers/sws0797.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971219/argentina_s_credito__1.html

Is gold going to rise or not 90%of it is based on the psychological factor.Gold rises or will go down because people have the "feeling" it will do so.So called "experts" who base themselves on"solid economical data"are wrong 50% of the time as most studies show.So be bullish and spread the news.
Having said this according to my expertise and based on the data all over the place which I want copy gold will rise within the next 6 months to about 500 dollars!!!
I have read ( for the time ) the participation rules of this discussiongroup so I think everybody is beautiful east/west--N/S--left/right--black/white--bulls/bears
So no heartfeelings!!!What is your opinion on this John Disney

PS:CIA warned me about people with several email adresses

http://biz.yahoo.com/upi/97/12/17/general_state_and_regional_news/usquakefa_1.html

Winnies Hopes hacked down in Vote.

The political fortunes of winnie mandela waned furthur

when the clearest test of her popularity produced

mediocre result.

Earlier in the week she withdrew from the race for

deputy vice president after seeing her support was thin

on the ground ( she got less than 5 % of the delegates

on the basis of a show of hands - 25 % was required to be considered as a

candidate )

Then in a secret ballot for 60 members of the ANC

executive, she came 15th from the top.

Should anyone be interested here they are in order.

Ramaphosa - Black - venda

Asmal - muslim

Jordan - Black ??

Maharaj - Indian

Naidoo - Indian

Mbowani - Black - Xhosa

Manuel - colored

Omar - Muslim

Moosa - muslim

Kasrils - White

Mufamadi - Black - ??

Zuma - Black - Zulu

Hanekom - White

Radebe - Black

Winnie Mandela - Black - sotho ??

If anyone recalls, I stated ( in response to an absurd

prediction by a Mr Tsadeak that winnie would gain in power

and possibly become deputy prime minister ) - that there

was no chance of this at all. This was shortly after

having pointed out to that same Mr Tzsadeak that SA was the

world's largest gold producer not the US and by a very

big margin. In a similar pole in 1994, wiinie ranked

5th. Now she ranks 15th. Winnie's waning popularity is

highest in the malicious minds of foreign journalists -

and some of their more hysterical readers. I am sure Mr

tzseakeed will try to wiggle out of the responsiblity

of having made such an assinine prediction, but Im

not going to make it easy for him. Until that is until

he starts doing his homework and gets his facts right.

Also please note that a bit less than half of the

ANC executive are Black!

Now on to another of Tshlashlick's predictions ( along with

the bobbie burns greek chorus of Haggis amidst slurps

of outmeal covered "Ayes" - that the TRC legal action

against the big crokodile PW Botha would lead to

revolution in SA. This prediction was even dumber than

the first prediction that winnie could gain power in

SA. Tsuduck is simply reading half assed press releases

on rsa - picking out the most lurid of the lot - then

playing it back as if he were henry kissinger. But he

is good in a way for comedy content. He IS funny

although Im sure he doesnt mean to be.

The Sunday Times reports that the Trc may have shot

itself in the foot by issuing a blanket amnesty to 37

of its members according to professor Welsh, a

political science professor at Cape Town University.

The TRC also extended the blanket amnesty to Bishop's

tutu's son trevor - who was wanted by the police for

threatening to blow up a domestic airliner a few years

ago. He was simply hauled off to the slammer, but then

he jumped bail. Recently he was caught by a reporter

the police tried hard NOT to find him ) and then pardoned

y his sainted father - desmond tutu.

The TRC has now been advised that this amnesty could

be challnged in court and 37 of its members would be

liable for criminal charges. This would mean a lot of

the government would be running the country from the

slammer. The Democratic party is pressing for a court

challenge.

PW Botha has stated that he had been assured by the TRC

( TuTu ) that he would not have to appear if he answered

certain questions in writing which he did several months

back. Tutu says that he did not have authority to make

such a deal ( although he could let his son off fast hey )

but the word on the street is that The old crokodile

Taped the meeting secretly and is setting ups things

to humiliate the commision - which is regarded by black

brown and white alike as a circus to enable a big

payoff and conitining celebrity status for TUTU.

This is a big joke no a small joke - the idea of a

revolution coming out of this is simply brain dead

stuff. SA has a lot of crime up north but its not

"unstable" - its more like "Faulty Towers" with real

crime and bullets.

MONETARY GOLD MISMANAGEMENT IN THE 20th CENTURY by -- Part II

We are indeed fortunate to have received an insightful and scholarly treatise, whose content and format could well be a doctoral thesis on the financially pertinent subject of the Monetary Mismanagement of the illustrious group called Central Bankers. This observer has NO DOUBT the detailed and in-depth analysis will be of utmost keen interest to GOLDBUGS, students of money, politicians, and yes, even Central Bankers!

It documents where we have been, where we are, and most importantly where we will be monetarily at the millennium. It is indeed encyclopedic in its coverage of the subject. Like the historically important Rosetta Stone - which was the key to deciphering the hieroglyphics of ancient Egypt - this oracle view promises to be the translation blueprint for the forth-coming world monetary reform.

About the Author: In 1965 Joseph Miller became a member of the
Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was active in the exchange during the time Currency Futures and Interest Rate Futures were introduced by the Exchange, and served on the Board of Governors of the Exchange for ten years.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/jmiller122097.html

G'Day from Kalgoorlie in Western Australia.

Why don't you sell the film rights to Hollywood, and put yourself in the STAR role. You really do life in a happy go lucky, free and easy place, or is that solely in your imagination.

Aye, Haggis

Thabo Mbeki announced that he was endorsing GEAR

( the growth,employment and redistribution Strategy )

key points were.

1. the public service would be reduced to free

funds for job creating construction projects.

2. small business would be boosted by state aid via

start up financing.

3. foreign investment would be encouraged.

4. export oriented businesses would be encouraged.

5. joint ventures between government and the private

sector would be encouraged.

This speech somehow doesnt sound very threatening to

me. Does it to you??

Mornin.....

This prediction gains tremendous credibility after you read the credentials of its author:

About the Author: In 1965 Joseph Miller became a member of the
Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was active in the exchange during the time Currency Futures and Interest Rate Futures were introduced by the Exchange, and served on the Board of Governors of the Exchange for ten years.

If we go back to an earlier section of this paper, we observed that after 1971, when the artificial pressure was lifted from gold prices that prices advanced to a peak of 24 times the old price and settled around approximately 10 times the old price. No two
events in any market develop precisely the same, but just as an
exercise, if something similar happens this time, gold prices might peak near $8,400.00, and settle around $3,500.00 an ounce. The remote possibility that these numbers can be correct, is enough evidence to make it easy to understand why the central bankers and high government officials around the world want to denigrate, denounce, discard, disown and dislike gold, plus keep prices low. It makes one want to take time to consider what the implications of anything remotely resembling this happening might be. The last time gold had been held down artificially for 37 years. This time, so far, it has only been 17, which may lessen the next rise. On the other hand we have asset markets that have reached such lofty levels the no less an authority than the FED Chairman has described the situation, as long as a year ago, as "Irrational Exuberance". So who can tell? Let's not lose sight, while we are pondering the question, of the trillions and trillions of fiat megabyte dollars, yen, marks, and what have you, that are whizzing around the world electronically every minute of every hour of every day. They have to end up buying something, and it might just be gold one of these days.

Part II of his mind-blowing essay is located at:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/jmiller122097.html

G'Day from Kalgoorlie.

Struth......... I am sure that the Bhoys in power in South Africa have solutions to the major political, eduational, housing, jobs and most importantly crime issues. As we say in Australia .... " No worries Mate, she'll be right". What is the equivalent pharse in South Africa.

Aye, Haggis.

Tolerant1: This is the 'lord's' day......

For the Oatmeal Man-

Now I see - you Scots live all your lives in the dingy wet cold smokey

upper regions of the British Isles complete with smells of urine in old drains - dreaming of a colonial past in sunny climes with servants and real food instead of bloody oatmeal.

You think of South Africa - first they assassinate your weedy asses at rugby, then they go home to be waited on by Blacks - You want oh how you want those Blacks to rise UP and kill them oh my. You want to get EVEN, plus the AFRIKAANERS dont even speak english - yes you dream of revolution - ENVY is a Deadly sin, my friend - you might not go to heaven with an attitude like that.

In your Malicious dreams -

'Aye oboyoboy

G'Day from Kalgoorlie.

As Sir Les Paterson would say "Struth" ......... I am sure that the Bhoys in power in South Africa have solutions to the major political, educational, housing, jobs and most importantly crime issues. As we say in Australia .... " No worries Mate, she'll be right". What is the equivalent phrase in South Africa.

Aye, Haggis.

Passion never takes a holiday.

G'Day,

Mate you have got NO sense of humour. Take the blinkers off. In case you have not noticed, I live in Kalgoorlie in Western Australia and according to all maps that I have looked at... it is a LONG way from Bonnie Scotland. I hear that they are going to open up some gold mines on Table Mountain, any truth in this.

Aye, Haggis

More evidence that the good economy is not and saying it is is to keep money flowing into the dollar. In addition to punk xmas sales now we here demand at charities for emergency food and money is up over 86% from last year. Another non govtal controlled number like bankruptcies,delinquincies and punk Xmas sales which tells the real truth about the US economy. Micky Ds anyone?

I see it is time for the wonderful world of disney & haggis.....we interupt the program to disclose the following site which may be of interest to our viewers:

http://www.his.com/~council/review.htm

selected articles from The Ambassadors Review
Topics include:

Secrecy--The Commision on Protecting & Reducing Government Secrecy issued its report, the culminations of two years of research & investigation....

US & Allied Efforts to Recover & Restore Gold & other Assets stolen or Hidden ...

Switzerland on Trial

UN

Hong Kong

& select others.....

we now resume our previously sched. entertainment the wonderful world of disney & haggis....

Judy Shelton in todays Washington Post has a rather ominous article. "The solution is to set up an orderly interna tional monetary system that would permit all nations to compete in the global marketplace based on a common unit of account."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1997-12/21/132l-122197-idx.html

SDRer, Do you know if she is "connected"?

http://www.hfxnews.southam.ca/story.html

G'Day from Kalgoorlie in Western Australia.

Interesting article in the Washington Post. Not so sure that the Europeans, Japanese, Chinese, or anyone else for that matter, would be too keen on the US$ being the anchor. If it was, it may prove to be too darned heavy and would possibly sink the ship.

GOLD, and I sure that the influence of the ROTHCHILDS with the Central Banks will win the day. Presidents and Prime Ministers come and go, ROTHCHILDS are there ALL the time.

Aye, Haggis

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1997-12/21/093l-122197-idx.html

Ms. Shelton is from the Hoover Institute and is, I believe, a full
professor at Stanford University. She has the ear of a number of
influential political leaders in Congress, especially the Joint
Economics Committee, and thus has some "power." However, this article
( and I agree it is very interesting ) is merely an idea that is being
"floated" and is not likely to be enacted. She is not THAT connected...
or at least no more so than is Sachs of Harvard et al.

The constant refrain of how strong it is in light of countervailing INDEPENDENT evidence is becoming one of TED's "grin thingys"!

Even if Sysco is sold, it will continue to cost money to Nova
Scotia, likely for generations. The province has assumed the
mill's debts, recently paid down a $47.4-million unfunded
liability Sysco workers' pensions, and will be on the hook for
the eventual environmental cleanup of the plant site.

"There's no easy way out," MacDonald admitted. "But I think
the sale to a good company is the best way."

Sysco has swallowed $2 billion in federal and provincial
subsidies since the province took over in 1967.

Yer 'Redskins' suk!

So true ( Sunday means nothin to me! )

In my area the Salvation Army has said that donations are off by as much as 40% over last year...based upon same store location dailey averages...last year I volunteered for several days to help out the SA... to sick to do so this year... I guess I should just drop a few gold eagles in the next bell ringers can I come across...at least the eagles are cheaper this year.

Gold was the obvious, but unmentioned, solution to the problem she posed. I doubt that it entered her mind. SDRer thinks there is a battle of the Titans coming in the international financial community. If the dollar weakens, I think the hands of the Germans and the French will be strengthened. And they love gold.

Camduses may be out of a job once Clinton's term runs out. Also Bobby Rubin said to want to takeover FED after AG.

Cape Breton is predominantly scottish~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the info on Shelton. I thought it had that feel to it.

SKINS have a chance to make playoffs. Go Skins avenge GiANTS. Off to pick up Mr. C, BR, AG and Laurence Summers to do a little tail gaitin' afer the game. Hey them just plain good ol folk like you and me.

The problem is solved - the new unit of World currency will be controlled by the UN and will be called the Unibuck - you know like

unicef duh. If think if we did that, gold might actually go up a little

( in unibucks that is ) . Ten unibucks equals One camdessus and one hudred

equals a U thant. Hows that for a stupid idea ??

ROR:

In the spirit the pervades Kitco of late, I sincerely hope that you get your wish and that the Skins make the playoffs. Then the Gint's can stomp 'em one more time.

Away to feed the ducks.

Ya think my Tailgatin pardners can shed any light on the marts better than people on this site including but not limited to GSC et al. Where is Peutz?

Your wish to get Camduses may come true as Clinton may replace him in 2001 when his term is up. And we were worried about Madison Guarantee and Whitewater!

This prediction gains tremendous credibility after you read the credentials of its author:

About the Author: In 1965 Joseph Miller became a member of the
Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was active in the exchange during the time Currency Futures and Interest Rate Futures were introduced by the Exchange, and served on the Board of Governors of the Exchange for ten years.

If we go back to an earlier section of this paper, we observed that after 1971, when the artificial pressure was lifted from gold prices that prices advanced to a peak of 24 times the old price and settled around approximately 10 times the old price. No two events in any market develop precisely the same, but just as an exercise, if something similar happens this time, gold prices might peak near $8,400.00, and settle around $3,500.00 an ounce.

The remote possibility that these numbers can be correct, is enough evidence to make it easy to understand why the central bankers and high government officials around the world want to denigrate, denounce, discard, disown and dislike gold, plus keep prices low. It makes one want to take time to consider what the implications of anything remotely resembling this happening might be. The last time gold had been held down artificially for 37 years. This time, so far, it has only been 17, which may lessen the next rise. On the other hand we have asset markets that have reached such lofty levels, where no less an authority than the FED Chairman has described the situation, as long as a year ago, as "Irrational Exuberance". So who can tell? Let's not lose sight, while we are pondering the question, of the trillions and trillions of fiat megabyte dollars, yen, marks, and what have you, that are whizzing around the world electronically every minute of every hour of every day. They have to end up buying something, and it might just be gold one of these days.

Part II of his mind-blowing essay is located at:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/jmiller122097.html

Just as gold is making a comeback, so are the green and gold. The Green Bay Packers will be victorious in Superbowl 32

Carl, tgl & ALL: May Introduce one of the World's Most Aggressive advocates of a Return to the GOLD STANDARD

Ms Judy Shelton. She is well-known internationally for a number of reasons, BUT her main claim to fame is her book, "MONEY MELTDOWN: Restoring Order to the Global Currency System." - in which each page is dripping with a RETURN TO THE GOLD STANDARD.

Politically Affiliated Judy Shelton

Those who demean the monetary use of gold as a provincial vestige of the past underestimate its contemporary appeal among financial sophisticates from Beijing to Basel. Akin to Sir Winston Churchills observation about democracy, a Gold Standard is the worst form of international monetary system - EXCEPT FOR ALL THE OTHERS. This quote is from Ms Sheltons August 13, 1993 WSJ article, GOLD MINE OF LESSONS FROM EUROPE -- well worth reading in its entirety. ( 38 )

If a return to a Gold Standard were a delusion, then why are so many sophisticated monetary experts, international economists, and indeed respected politicians STILL TALKING ABOUT IT?? And why would Judy Shelton, a recognized worldwide policy analyst - whose work has received praise from observers of the international economic scene as diverse as Bill Bradley, Zbigniew Brezezinski, and Richard Nixon - write an internationally acclaimed book about the many benefits and advantages of a return the Gold Standard??
And why are columnists of prestigious newspapers ( e.g. Barrons, WSJ and IBD ) writing articles about it?? And why are important people still being interviewed on CNBC about their opinion of a return to the Gold Standard. Can they all be simply deluding themselves?? ( 39 )

Judy Shelton, a Senior Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, is a renown expert on international monetary, financial and economic policy, and author of the book Money Meltdown: Restoring Order to the Global Currency System ( The Free Press, New York, 1994 ) In Money Meltdown, Dr. Shelton recommends a new currency system based on gold -- a gold standard. She writes:

"When chronic budget deficits are financed through government
borrowing, the inevitable result is domestic inflation... When
citizens have the right to redeem money for gold whenever they
suspect its value is being compromised by government policies, such as expanding the money supply to finance a federal budget deficit, they hold an ax over the heads of politicians."

...From the archives of GOLD-EAGLE
http://www.gold-eagle.com

Carl, tgl & ALL: May I Introduce one of the World's Most Aggressive advocates of a Return to the GOLD STANDARD: MS JUDY SHELTON, World-Renown Economist, Author, former Professor and Senior Fellow at the internationally prestigious HOOVER INSTITUTE at STANFORD UNIVERSITY. Currently, very active lobbyist in Washington, D.C.

Nice post ...thank you very much!

SDRer... do you think it is to little to late?

Okay everyone better spend all your fiat while you can and borrow as much as possible at a fixed rate ... cause when this baby hits your town USA all that savings, paid off real estate etc, won't buy you a hill of beans if this thing continues out of control, you can pay back your loans with inflated dollars , besides you need all the cash you can muster to buy the gold coins you'll need to buy yourself a government job until the meltdown clears...Mortage those properties now with rates in the states at and all time low. Liquidate assets now before the big rush at fire sale prices.

Hey I just went thru this crap on a very small scale in Honolulu...people thought I was crazy to bug out when I did...You can not give away Commercial Hotels , real estate, large, medium, or even small business in Hawaii now...not to mentions Homes and Condos... Foreclosure section of the paper is Huge...the wave will soon Hit the west coast and the rest of the mainland. Surf is up baby...the debt wave will soon come crashing down...

Donald posted an article about Nov. Credit card defaults earlier...I have had a chance to read it yet but I know what it says...same thing I heard over and over again at the Credit Card Marketing Conference I recently attended...

it is hitting the fan and the banks know it...they are expecting record BK filings in 1998!! I posted some figure several weeks back from Faulkner & Gray....

these clown bankers do not care...they made record profits and bonuses last year and they ignore the signals...smart players like AT&T Universal card sold out to the big boys like CITICORP....How do you think all of this will come down on the money center banks ...it is all happening at once...Asia...Russia...Comercial loans...Credit Cards... Branch Operations...nearly every profit center of the money center banks will be under tremendous pressure...How many will the government allow to BREAK...

With Disaster stairng these clowns in the face they continue to laugh and party and carry on...." What do you mean Private Investor biz has never been better"

Greenspan: Still Going for the Gold
by Judy Shelton
May 15, 1997

....
The golden years?
Now that we are approaching that point where monetary policy can be isolated from fiscal policy, it is time to move purposefully toward the final objective of sound money based on gold convertibility. In a 1981 op-ed article entitled "Can the U.S. Return to a Gold Standard?", published in The Wall Street Journal, Greenspan wrote that the prerequisite for successfully restoring a gold standard was "for the U.S. to create a fiscal and monetary environment which in effect makes the dollar as good as gold, i.e., stabilizes the general price level and by inference the dollar price of gold bullion itself." Once such financial stability was achieved, he explained, returning to a gold standard would provide a vital safeguard against future budgetary malfeasance:

... ( T ) he discipline of the gold standard would surely reinforce anti-inflation policies, and make it far more difficult to resume financial profligacy. The redemption of dollars for gold in response to excess federal government-induced credit creation would be a strong political signal.

Sound money advocates should take heart these days and realize that Greenspan is following a game plan laid out long ago. Now is not the time to break faith with the man who has done so much to usher in the financial and political conditions that will permit us to make the dollar as good as gold -- on a permanent basis.
Judy Shelton, an economist, is the author of 'Money Meltdown: Restoring Order to the Global Currency System' ( Free Press, 1994 ) .

The whole article is worth reading.

http://www.intellectualcapital.com/issues/97/0515/icpro.html

Thanks, you were all over it.

If you folks do not subscribe to The Privateer I suggest that you do. Those folks have an excellent product.

http://www.pff.org/empower/econ-shelton.html

Sunday December 21, 4:31 am Eastern Time

S.Korea says to increase state fund to 20 trln won

SEOUL, Dec 21 ( Reuters ) - South Korea's finance ministry said on Sunday it would increase a state fund established to buy bad loans to 20 trillion won from the current eight trillion won.

``We plan to raise the size of the fund with an aim to buy all of bad loans by the end of January,'' said an official at the ministry's industrial finance division.

He said the ministry would also allow the Korea Asset management Corp, manager of the bad-loan liquidation fund, to issue $2 billion worth of bonds on overseas markets, including New York.

``We plan to speed up the process of cleaning up bad loans with the financial system as we promised the International Monetary Fund,'' the official said.

The ministry said the nation's bad loans were estimated at about 28 trillion won at the end of November, but analysts said they would be well over 35 trillion won now.

The official said the plan to increase the fund and issue dollar-denominated bonds would be submitted to a special parliamentary session, which will open from Monday until December 29.

The extraordinary session is expected to pass the plan together with 13 financial reform bills.

On Saturday, the country's three main parties agreed to pass the bills, which redefine the role of the central bank and call for integration of supervisory bodies in the banking, securities and insurance sectors. ( $ equals 1570 won )

So how do we make the Japanese happy so that they buy more platinum jewelry? :- ) )

Also, what about the Russian side of the platinum/palladium eqaution? If the Russians are playing the same game they did this time last year... Wouldn't we see a really large deficit suddenly develop in the platinum/palladium supply? Regardless of whom produces how much, a sudden deficit can't be made up in a moments notice. If the supply/demand equation is in precise balance, than a suden supply disruption of a few hundred thousand ounces would send the PGM market in to orbit.

In one of John Wayne's movies, there is a line uttered that I think is appropo here. "Your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, the boy gets it!"

I know it is the 90s, people tell me all the time. However, how can a woman be a senior fellow?

BBML.....

If you are long Feb. Gold ( 12/9, 01:05 ) , it closed above and outside of it's downward channel on Fri.. Look for a brief acceleration up, sell or sell and reverse at 305. Keep stops at break even.

tolerant1: thx again for my daily ration of humor. I needed it.

I was touched - you called me Brave Oris. I felt really good...
As soon as I realized who I am, I immediately had 3 shots of 2.5 oz
each, 80 proof stuff, then I felt even better, so I decided to thank
you, which was indeed politically incorrect, but I felt I'm brave enough
to do it.. So I did and then had another 2 shots to convince myself
that I did a right thing. With consideration given to myself by myself under influence, I still feel good and brave, and so I'm confirming my thanks to you...

Best regards,

B.Oris

tolerant1: Do you remember that link to that "veneroso" report. I remember you put it up about a month ago, but I seem to have lost the bookmark to it.

I tell all who would listen. On the morrow I am purchasing another 10,000 shares of TNX - Tan Range. These boys are on to something huge.

Noted U.S. stock market expert continues to lean towards Dow 5700-6400 being seen sometime in front of the middle of next year, regardless of how high it might get in early '98 weeks ( which is absolutely the Street's plan, but clearly capable of being derailed by even hints of news, which should worry traders, especially this time of year ) . In fact he asserts, If anything my Dow leanings might be too optimistic ( by about a thousand Dow points or so ) . Regarding current market action, he gleefully says, "WOW, I'm glad we're SHORT!"

1998 looks grim for common stocks:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/inger121997.html

Nice story...the epic continues in every corner....man mutilating mother earth...yet another case of GREED...GREED...GREED!!!

Killing the Goose that lays the Golden eggs seams to be popular these days.

WHAT a wonderful legacy to leave to the grand children, and future generations.

please share you feelings on his stock with me.I may join you in your purchase.

Thought kitcoites might enjoy the following:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa016.html

THE GOLD STANDARD: AN ANALYSIS OF SOME RECENT PROPOSALS By Joseph T. Salerno, assistant professor of economics at Rutgers University. ( 1982 )

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa002.html

MONETIZATION PRACTICES AND THE POLITICAL STRUCTURE OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM by R. H. Timberlake, Jr., professor of finance in the College of Business Administration at the University of Georgia. ( 1981 )

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa017.html

GOLD, PAPER, OR...: IS THERE A BETTER MONEY? by David Friedman, assistant professor of economics at the University of California. ( 1982 )

http://www.cato.org/speeches/sp-ag101497.html

Globalization of Finance, by Alan Greenspan ( 1997 )

enjoy.

Why do you say that? I have been a hopeful owner of Tan Range for quite some time. It is just yet another of my steller performing gold stocks....

A new tribe was discovered in SA.They speak their own dialect and live in
complete isolation.Their sorcerer ( ess ) makes the sun rise every day and is worshiped as a god.What they fear the most is an interference of civilisation so foreigners are excluded immediately.They spend most of their time commenting ancient relics and traditions.They are so scared their real nature might be discovered they wear masks all day long.
Their favorite "game" consists of insulting in a hidden and sophisticated
way other members of the tribe.The winner of the game is considered to be the most intelligent.The outside world has decided to leave the tribe
alone and thus conserve a vestige of the past.

Tolerant1, your reflection on the oxymoronic character of post-modern language ( "How can a woman be a senior fellow?" ) cuts through to the heart of the whirlwind that has devastated modern culture. I would join you in asking why I should call a woman who heads a committee on my campus, a chair! Part of the answer rests with the growing gap between rationality in language and politically correct prescriptions. Thus, we can no longer respect the traditional grammatical distinctions between singular pronouns, each, everyone, etc., and the grammatically required singular, as in "Each should watch his investments carefully." Now before LGB denounces me for my renewed pedantry, I will come to the point. The engine that drives the new paradigm, its-different-this-time crowd also is responsible for the intellectual holocaust that has gutted the intellectual legitimacy of higher education. My own area of expertise, literature, will serve quite nicely here. Though it may be regarded an exaggeration to laymen, the dismantling of traditional literary curriculum as eurocentric, phallocentric, racist, sexist, homophobic, and the like, represents a sorry reality at most universities across the country today. The so-called "culture war" are over, and the so-called "post-modern" theorists have won. Your sons and daughters are more likely to listen to rap and hip hop in their English classes than to read Homer and Shakespeare. A typical offering in my own department last year was entitled, "The Rhetoric of Rock and Roll," an upper-level course offering for English majors. So, if it is not surprising to find the great literature of the past relegated to an ideological dump for dead, European, white males ( I am, of course, regarded as an almost dead European white male professor who continues to insist on the validity of the Western literary heritage ) . If the Bible and Shakespeare can be repudiated, then I can assure you I am not stunned to see the current rejection of gold so complete. The philosophical underpinning for a world where everything is different this time goes by the name of "Deconstruction," a philosophic position closely related to modern semiotics. Deconstruction theory has permitted the assault, even legitimized, on traditional disciplines like literature, law, history, political, even science! Every time I read an article telling me that the 5000 year role of gold, I think of our vanishing interest in Homer!

To All Whose Time I Wasted...

My apologies to all for my "Smart-Ass Kid on the Block" post yesterday at 23:03. Let the office get to me I guess, reacted in an inappropriate manner, and blasted away at anything and everything. Will not allow it to happen again as I do enjoy the company, opines, and YES, even the predictions of Kitcoites.

To a better week!

Tan Range highly recommended by Blanchard. Looks great. Another one that you will not have heard of is Chesbar ( CBI:MTL ) . IT is Barrick backed; well financed; ongoing drilling with results mid Jan.; great concentrations near surface. Predict it will be a proven megafind by mid year.

This could be an interesting week. If no significan move upward is made, it will be time to re-evaluate whether a bottom has been made. GOOD LUCK !!!!

Voyeur Professor: Please continue.

Has the credible rumor died, or is it still alive?

for winston and tolerant -

Some more info on tan range. In addition to swazi project, They have a three year licence fir the hagere Mariam deposit in Ethiopia. Their

main project is at Itetemia in the Lake Victoria goldfields of Tanzania.

VRONSKY: Thanks for posting the Joseph Miller essay at GOLD EAGLE! I'm not sure abpout $3500, but he makes an excellent case that a big move up is inevitable.

Panda - I thought you said you had bailed out of SWC. Are you back in? I finally sold mine for a small ( by gold standards ) loss at $18. Put the money in VAALY which has bounced up nicely. It seems that with SWC there is still another shoe to drop, palladium. Platinum is close to its lows for the year. Palladium has still a long way to fall. It may never get there, but IMHO, it can still drop a long way from current prices. Of course, there is always the Russian card, but TRENDS, TRENDS, TRENDS!

I may buy back in at some point, but I must say I was quite discouraged by the lack of response of SWC to the great gains in PA and PL. Seems like there are better multiples available in gold stocks ( assuming of course that gold goes up! ) .

If we accept that government bonds and currencies are at best an illusion of wealth, and that stock markets trading at 5 times book value may be over-priced in view of falling profits and currency upheaval, then the only investment alternative is gold. Realizing this, governments have driven down the price of gold. In order for the world to continue to believe in the government promoted illusion, the price of gold must continue to fall. If the world were not on the edge of an economic collapse, the price of gold would not be so low. An analysis by John Kutyn:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/kutyn121797.html

The ORACLE of the Orient long absent from our website has returned with a vengeance in his scathing rebuttal of Central Bank spewing that gold is dead, that gold is no longer a hedge against economic and currency chaos, etc. etc. His succinct and extremely well-documented opinion concludes that Central Bank braying is RUBBISH, RUBBISH AND MORE RUBBISH.

The ORACLE proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the only defense southeast Asians had... AND WILL HAVE - against the on-going currency chaos, stock market turmoil and the regions crumbling bank system is to invest in GOLD. The staunchest and most fanatical anti-GOLDBUGS are obliged to concede to the irrefutable evidence that GOLD is the ONLY SAFE HARBOR vis--vis the looming and devastating Domino Effect engulfing the area:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/oracle121597.html

Watch the Canadian dollar this week. Unless we have a major rally in Gold & commodities, it will be under attack by the currency speculators.

for Oris -

You're a nice guy Oris. Mi casa es su casa. Come down here any time.

What kind of vodka is the best commercially available brand. I havnt

drunk any vodka for years you know.

for Panda - I believe the Russian card in Palladium. They are bigger

palladium producers than RSA but much smaller Platinum producers. I have

heard that their platinum stockpile is pretty well depleted but they

still have palladium. To make Japanese happy, drop the price of crude oil, and try to get them drunk, not necessarily in any order.

Russians are shifty guys though and oris says they have a lot of different sets of books. You know like tolstoy, dostoyevski, turganev, pushkin, checkov, sholakov.

They may some PGM hidden in these books.

FUND VIEW-Outlook for Asia seen bleak in 1998

By Sarah Davison

HONG KONG, Dec 21 ( Reuters ) - Institutional investors retained a bleak outlook for Asian markets in the coming year, recommending high cash positions and warning of further currency turbulence.

``It's pretty gloomy, actually. We're still advising people to hold cash and we don't expect to change that view for six months,'' said Robert Rountree, strategist at Nomura Research Institute in Hong Kong.

Investors' confidence in Asia, once known for its ``miracle'' economic growth rates and out-performing financial markets, would remain badly shaken by this year's economic crisis.

Rebuilding that confidence would require strong policy measures, such as further opening of markets, credible monetary policy management and convincing efforts at structural reform.

"It's going to be a tough road," said another strategist.

``I don't see any easy recovery because the bottom line is domestic policy remains in reactive rather than proactive mode. And as far as much-needed relief from international sources such as the U.S., it won't be easily forthcoming.''

The United States and Germany have rejected a request by the International Monetary Fund ( IMF ) for quota increases after bail-out packages for Thailand, Indonesia and South Korea drained its coffers of US$32 billion within three months.

In the absence of further international aid, Asian economies would be forced either to restructure immediately or confront an economic collapse, he said.

``Credit is going to be contracting at a remarkable pace and currency volatility is unlikely to subside,'' the strategist said. ``The risks are sufficiently high enough to retain a cautious stance. Cash is king, and it's not over.''

Assessing the region's investment opportunities against this backdrop was almost impossible, strategists said, but certain themes were starting to emerge.

Taiwan, Singapore and the Philippines were all viewed as relative performers, and were slightly overweighted in sharply reduced Asian portfolio weightings that have cut market flows to a trickle, further heightening volatility.

Many institutional investors were neutral on Hong Kong, predicting a further 20 percent correction in the property market that could push the Hang Seng below 9,000 points once more.

Lingering concern about pressure on the Hong Kong dollar, largely from domestic investors opting for U.S. dollars as a safe haven, would also undermine Hong Kong, they said.

Investors were negative on Indonesia and Malaysia, but views were mixed on Thailand. Most were negative, but Salomon Smith Barney argued -- along with Templeton -- that competitive devaluations had improved the country's outlook.

``The key thing is not to have much in the way of expectations in absolute terms. It's all about relative performance,'' said Pauline Gately, strategist at BZW Asia.

Asian institutional investors were also united in their view that the global contagion potential of the crisis had yet to be factored into policy-making and global financial markets.

In addition to trade flows, contagion could spread through the banking system and financial markets, they said.

European banks building positions in Asia over the past three years would be affected, said Gately, as would technology companies in the United States now reducing earnings estimates.

Above and beyond these direct connections, the dent made by the Asian crisis upon investor confidence had depressed domestic demand in Asia and elsewhere, signalling further fall-out in financial markets and economic growth rates.

``Markets are driven by fear more than anything else, and the fear this time is very real,'' said the strategist.

``There is a very real potential of deflation and a meltdown in currency values.''

Gold and gold stocks look like they will have a decent bounce the next few weeks, but we will have to wait for the inevitable retest to see if the bottom is really in. All depends on the dollar and how much more the European CBs have to sell.

Someone earlier this morning posted what appeared to be a question as
to a prediction I made about SA. But this is deja vu all over again, been
there done that. I said ( you may ck my post of Dec 2 ,02:04 that
Winnie or another black leader and further that a new era is being
ushered in , the living Saint Nelson will no longer be there to pacify
demands of the majority balck underclass, which is ironicaly represented
by Winnie. She only withdrew her nominattion after a deal was worked out to in effect "rehabilitate" her. She is still has power, and growing, unlike someone's prediction that same day that she was finished.This
was a very clever political move in that the new P.M. is a Zulu
and was designed to win over good portion of the largest tribe there.
and would in effect assure ANC victory next elction about a year away.
But the fact remains last month she was out of the ANC Top this
month she is IN ( in a big way, those who followed the convention and
heard the cheers and applause for her would know. This then is the
reason I extended my prediction 3 days ago of tribal war there, by two years,since it would take her or someone like her time to gain power I believe there could be a hadsome opportunity in SA shares when Gold does move , but I suppose you could say that of any Gold Shares.
However I would not close my eyes to the situation there. I see
this Botha indictment as a serious matter, one that could make Nelson's
statement that "a plan is in the works to sabotage SA economy by
Whites if they don't get their way" start to come true.
I also wanted for the record, to say once again ( 3 times now ) that I
hope my prediction for SA doesn't come about and the Africaners
come to their senses, but from Mr. Botha's defiance and their history
of perceived racial superiority I cannot see another way out.
I see that someone is still reading my posts. not that I mind at all,
after all that is why we are all here to share and learn, but I just wish
we all could keep our focus on the facts related to gold,and if we do challenge someone, to do so on a factual basis as opposed to personal attacks,it really helps no one, I personally find that who post with predictablle personal attacks discredit totally what in some cases are legitimate and inportant information and I for one have stopped reading them. I fully recognise that this has been a very hard year for us Gold Bugs but WE should know that our opposition ( Fed's Cb's PPT IMF etc..and their weapons of MASS DECEPTION ) . ) are not going to give up,their paper game without a hell of a fight so let's give them one ( let's get the word out to those who don't understand Gold and arm ourselves with information and facts ) instead of fighting each other.
Happy Holidays to all and a very prosperous and healthy New Year.

Soft Currency Economics--or is this The Ruling Washington Rooster?
PKT in action, NOW!

Long an admirer of Ms. Shelton, I think it important that we view her ( and our ) opposition. When I first read this paper, I must admit I thought it an inside joke; that is only true insofar as the joke is on us! Read and believe.
This is the academic rationalization/ justification that Fiat Money Creators need, and which they may be--even now--utilizing.

Under a fiat monetary system, money is an accepted medium of exchange only because the government requires it for tax payments.

Government fiat money necessarily means that federal spending need not be based on revenue. The federal government has no more money at its disposal when the federal budget is in surplus, than when the budget is in deficit. Total federal expense is whatever the federal government chooses it to be. There is no inherent financial limit. The amount of federal spending, taxing and borrowing influence inflation, interest rates, capital formation, and other real economic phenomena, but the amount of money available to the federal government is independent of tax revenues and independent of federal debt.
Warren B. Mosler, Soft Currency Economics

http://www.gate.net/~mosler/softecon.htm

Earl,

You should never encourage an academic to continue, they usually do. The ex-mathematics, Harvard professor-turned-comic, Tom Leherer once said that people who do a lot of talking about the failure to communicate should have the decency to shut-up. Nevertheless, I would recommend John Ellis new book, "Literature Lost" or David Kimballs "Tenured Radicals" or David Lehmans "Signs of the Time"the list is virtually endless. The point is one can document a considerable body of intellectual complaint directed to the new knownothingness that rides high these days. An addendum to the despair that I bear witness to is the fact that the chief professional organization for the study of literature, The Modern Language Association, has faced the decline of over 4000 professors of literature ( presumably all almost dead white American males ) who have bolted to a new organization named, The Association of Literary Scholars and Critics. You will also find that the National Association of Scholars represents a new movement opposed to the post-modern disease.

To think that at someday the world will wake up and realize that they have been wrong all these years but now we will return to gold as the backing for a worldwide currency. If this is returned to how will the countries manupulate their economys. Will everyone wake up one day and say from now on we will dicipline ourselves and not overspend. Our economys will only expand to the increased amount of gold that is mined. and if our country has no mineable gold we will bankrupt ourselves to gain reserves. If your country is buying gold it cannot build roads, schools or hospitals. While these things could be built by private industryn their track record is dismal in these areas. How will a country pay a standing army to defend its borders. Those with the gold will own them? No, we will never see a curency convertable to gold ever again. The powers that are influencing the world will never stand for it. These powers want the world to be dependent on one curency and for the countries of the world to owe allegeance to that one currency. They do not want some guy with a dream, a GoldBugII, and a passing intrest in geology to find somthing that is wealth. They want to say what is wealth. NA dit wont be gold. IMHO

Noted U.S. stock market expert continues to lean towards Dow 5700-6400 being seen sometime in front of the middle of next year, regardless of how high it might get in early '98 weeks ( which is absolutely the Street's plan, but clearly capable of being derailed by even hints of news, which should worry traders, especially this time of year ) . In fact he asserts, If anything my Dow leanings might be too optimistic ( by about a thousand Dow points or so ) . Regarding current market action, he gleefully says, "WOW, I'm glad we're SHORT!"

1998 looks grim for common stocks:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/inger121997.html

I'm the idiot who can't make up his mind on SWC. Thus, I always seem to have a few shares of it kicking around. The last position weighs in at 19 3/16. I missed the down draft to 14 and change. I figure that this stock is stuck in a trading range of about 15 to 25. Barring a complete catastrophe in the PGMs ( Stillwater in particular ) , the stock dose posses a sinusoidal pattern. If the past is prologue ( ??? ) , then it is an eminently tradable pattern. And therein lies the caveat, the previous sentence.

My reasons for owning a position in this stock ( although the size of said position varies quit a bit over time ) , is that I can't stand he thought of this stock running away without owning some of it ( coulda, woulda, shoulda syndrome. Not necessarily the best investment or trading strategy. ) The other reasons are the number of places that the PGMs are produced in. They are few and subject to more vagaries than the enviromental movement in the U.S. At the risk of upsetting John Disney, look at the other major producers. You have Russia and South Africa. The real unknown is Russia. It wouldn't take much to upset this apple cart in either direction. In a nutshell, this is not investing, it's a gamble. Maybe if find a chart of SWC I'll post it.

http://jollyroger.com/beaconway/jollyroger.html

http://www.dixienet.org


I figger that the weight of the present evolutionary changes in "liberal" American society will reach a supercritical condition within 15 years ( more likely 7 to 10 ) . These are a sample of what will ( IMHO ) fill the void when the present day "cultural elite" achieves its simian destiny.

Thanks for the input. It seems the Saudi's are working on a lower price for oil in dollars. The Saki ( sp? ) part I can't do much about. :- ) Although, I think the past seven or so years has probably ruined more than a few livers and cardiovascular systems over there...

I should like to challenge you on some "facts " in your post, I jsut read.
Can you tell us where this One paper currency will come from?
And further who is going to set the rules for this One world currency?
Who is going to determine how much value to give to every country's
economy, production and raw materials?
Who will determine how much each country will be allowed to print of
said currency and when?

And on the subject of GOLD can you tell us if you have heard a major
power this century or any other time, who has voluntarily giiven up
printing paper money and has voluntarily gone to a Gold standard?

I look forward to your response.

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/data/_charts/achart.htx

Try this page. My posting skills are lacking, so I can't bring it over. But I just got through looking at a picture of SWC's sinusoidal pattern you wer talking about.

( A ) "In 1970 the IMF introduced 'Special Drawing Rights' ( SDRs ) with the aim of eventually replacing a less reliable U.S. dollar as the principal world reserve asset."
House of Commons, Canada, "From Bretton Woods to Halifax and Beyond: Towards a 21st Summit for the 21st Century Challenge", Chapter Three, #3. 'Clarity of Mandates'. ( I found a hard copy, finally! )

( B ) From US gov't "Background to Proposal for New IMF Borrowing Arrangements"
Circa 1995-6: under "Legislative Requirements":

U.S. participation requires Congressional authorization and appropriation, but does not result in any budget outlays and thus
does not increase the U.S. budget deficit. ...financial transactions with the IMF are treated as an exchange of monetary assets resulting
in no budget outlay on the basis that, when the Treasury transfers dollars to the IMF, e.g., when it makes a loan under the GAB, it
receives in exchange another monetary asset in the form of a liquid,interest-bearing claim on the IMF..."

You see how this game is played?

This report also is focused on the fact ( FACT ) that the IMF is/was already, VERY short of funds...so all the billions of the last weeks
has been "The Confidence Game" writ large...

The question becomes, "What next?".

This prediction gains tremendous credibility after you read the credentials of its author:

About the Author: In 1965 Joseph Miller became a member of the
Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was active in the exchange during the time Currency Futures and Interest Rate Futures were introduced by the Exchange, and served on the Board of Governors of the Exchange for ten years.

If we go back to an earlier section of this paper, we observed that after 1971, when the artificial pressure was lifted from gold prices that prices advanced to a peak of 24 times the old price and settled around approximately 10 times the old price. No two events in any market develop precisely the same, but just as an exercise, if something similar happens this time, gold prices might peak near $8,400.00, and settle around $3,500.00 an ounce.

The remote possibility that these numbers can be correct, is enough evidence to make it easy to understand why the central bankers and high government officials around the world want to denigrate, denounce, discard, disown and dislike gold, plus keep prices low. It makes one want to take time to consider what the implications of anything remotely resembling this happening might be. The last time gold had been held down artificially for 37 years. This time, so far, it has only been 17, which may lessen the next rise. On the other hand we have asset markets that have reached such lofty levels, where no less an authority than the FED Chairman has described the situation, as long as a year ago, as "Irrational Exuberance". So who can tell? Let's not lose sight, while we are pondering the question, of the trillions and trillions of fiat megabyte dollars, yen, marks, and what have you, that are whizzing around the world electronically every minute of every hour of every day. They have to end up buying something, and it might just be gold one of these days.

Part II of his mind-blowing essay is located at:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/jmiller122097.html

DJ -- Here is the Stillwater chart. You decide what it is. An ascending triangle or perhaps a pennant. They have locked in higher prices with their hedges, so I don't think that there is that much more downside. People were willing to pay $14 a share when the operation was spun off from Cheveron and Mansville. So, unless platinum goes to the price of gold again and palladium goes below last Februaries price of $115/$118 per ounce...

One thing I do know, and that is there are a lot of BIG houses being built around the Mass and New Hampshire area. There is lots of money around. Call it cash, credit, or whatever, but the fact remains houses are being built and many BMW, Volvos, and Saabs are on the road.

My friend, you are wrong, I mean in regard to logic of your post.

You assume that world wants some kind of only ONE "government backed"
currency for everybody.

At the same time you are talking about THE ARMY PROTECTION OF BORDERS.

If borders exist, it means there are differences berween countries.

If differences are there, there are also different governments, differen armies, different interests and currencies.

Just ask French, Swiss and Germans if they agree to accept US$ right

now instead of their francs and marks, they'll beat you up, I would

suspect they would like to be Americans too ( Gasoline in the U.S.

is much cheaper than in Europe ) , but only up to a certain limit.

Ask Russian communist Mr.G.Zuganov the same question - he is not so

tolerant as Swiss or German, he is gonna shoot you right at the spot.

US$ is very strong and atractive, but it's good until canceled...

Gold is a natural form of currency with no politics involved, and

nobody can do nothing about it in the long term + IT IS A POLITICAL

METAL, so got to have STABLE PEACE ALL OVER THE WORLD first...

You scenario may work however in a very distant future, if to assume
that the future is going to be like in A.Clark's stories, but at that time we all are gonna be dead for a long time.

Our concern at this time is if we can save our money invested in gold
and gold stocks, hopefully in 1998. It is not logical to discuss what
we will have in 2-3 centures from now, but it could be certainly of theoretical interest to learn.

Thanks for your post, but please tell us what will happen in 1998,
not in 2298.

BBL

You two are right about gold bouncing.....it will bounce right outta the cart and roll down the hill and land in the pile of cow-dung. And this will happen soon. JohnD...my Fibo says it will start tomorrow...if I'm wrong, can I still be on the team??!? I'm not sure if I like this team thing anyway...

away...to the 'A' team

teamshortgold

ted - you got a rocket landing......kaboom...go patrick....ugh...

last week the conversation centered on canada
and how to invest relative to her strengths
and weaknesses. i've beat the drum, and have
been beaten for beating the drum!

look at the daily chart of the c$. it is down for
the week, and is showing the true strength of its'
represenative fiscal policies.

could the positive numbers being paraded in front
of the world be cooked? would 'they' do that?

canada is not on the road to recovery, she is in the
throes of a financial epileptic fit. convulsions are
in-bound and are expected to sync with the MEXICO
catatonic financial fit.

think i speak due xenophobia, or idiocy? LOOK at the charts
of the c$ and the mexican peso. what are they doing? debt?
the proof is already in the pudding.

why do most people have to be hit in the head and knocked
dead before cognizance can take place? patriotism is no
excuse for ignorance. passivity cost millions their lives
through-out history.

"the best defense, is a strong offense" gen g patton---another "seer"--

ignorance due to passivity.....

or

passivity due to ignorance.....

either/or-------

damned sure the dominant mind-set of the 'other' worldians---

!; ) -----war-paint-enough-for-all--------this-is-THE-week!!!!!--aaaieeeeee

eb------

let me guess---------you forgot.......

or......cannot seem to decide.......

or........mine are the same as yours........WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Sunday December 21, 2:43 pm Eastern Time

WALL ST WEEK AHEAD-Little room for holiday cheer

By Huw Jones

NEW YORK, Dec 21 ( Reuters ) - Investors should stay buckled up for more bumpy rides this holiday season as
they drive through a field of financial landmines, including more profit warnings and Asia's unfolding economic
crisis.

``It will be very choppy until we get a fairly good sense of what the fourth quarter will look like,'' said Charles
Pradilla, market analyst at Cowan & Co.

Wall Street got caught off guard last week when Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Co. said fourth quarter
earnings will be dented not just because of Asia, but by slower U.S. sales too.

It was the latest in a string of high-profile profit warnings that have unnerved the market.

Until 3M's announcement, many investors thought only companies closely linked to Asia would have their bottom
line crimped. U.S.-derived earnings would be unscathed, they hoped.

Money managers now fear that slower growth, and less rosy corporate earnings, will be more widespread, Pradilla
said. ``Portfolio managers suspect that analysts' growth estimates are too high.''

As a result, the stock sell-off broadened last week.

The Dow Jones industrial average fell 90.21 points to 7,756.26 Friday. For the week, the index shed 82 points.

Blue-chip stocks could suffer from the uncertainty among investors, said Robert Froehlich, chief investment
strategist at Kemper Funds.

"That's a deadly one-two punch for them," he said.

Investors will also shy away from stocks thought to be overly exposed to Asia, and buy so-called defensive issues
such as utilities, regional banks, and consumer issues such as drug makers and food companies , said Hugh
Johnson, chief investment officer at First Albany.

``There will also be a shift from growth stocks to value stocks,'' he added.

But some analysts wonder which sectors of the stock market will provide leadership next year.

Investors will also switch more of their money into other assets.

``What's really draining on the stock market today is a real rotation into fixed income,'' Froehlich said.

Treasury bonds have rallied sharply during the Asian turmoil as investors have sought the perceived safe haven of
U.S. government securities.

Last week, the yield on the 30-year Treasury fell below 6 percent, though help for the stock market may be near.

``January comes around and we are going to see a good pile of cash moving into the stock market from retirement
accounts being funded early in the year, and bonuses and so forth,'' Crane said.

``Volatility is going to remain quite elevated - not just in the remaining days of 1997, but into early 1998 as well.''

Economic data will provide little direction this week, analysts said.

The final estimate of third quarter gross domestic product is due Tuesday, as are November's durable goods.
Personal income and consumption for November are due Wednesday.

Financial markets will be closed Thursday for Christmas holiday and most will close early Wednesday and Friday.

( Wall Street desk, 212-859-1737 )

I have just returned from a Lacrosse game. The participants were 5th and 6th graders.

These were some dangerous kids. It is amazing at that age that they have such tremendous skills.

My god I am getting old.l

Prof, you said "Now before LGB denounces me for my renewed pedantry"... Prof, may it never be! Actually, there is little in your post that I would not say a heary amen too...save for your nostalgia for Gold's role as a monetary instrument. In that regard, I'm far happier with our debt expansion economy than the previous impoverishment of the decades that preceeded the current ecomomic policies. I do have only one admonishment re your post..

Can we all agree to PLEASE not use the overworked and annoying phrase "new paradigm" ..paradigm shift...et al? I got your Pair a dimes right here pal..and they're Silver Mercury's! Well, since you're an exacting Professor, I should say they're Silver Winged Liberty dimes ( Since they are now and never were representative of the Greek God, appearance similiarity notwithstanding )

Latest figures on November Gold AE sales show that they surged in response to the falling rpice of Gold. Guess the herd mentality of shunning that which has fallen out of favor is not ocurring in this case hmmm?

It appears that one poster has and continues to give us his version of
"reality" in SA. without ever giving us any independent sources in SA
for said "version". I have posted independent sources in SA for my
facts ,perhaps he should do the same?
Here again is one of my sources.www.mg.co.za/news

Q. What's the difference between the IMF and S&L's?

A. About 10 years.

My brother Cherokee is Heammawihio, The Wise One Above...
Wihio means spider: "The spider spins a web, and goes up and down, seemingly walking on nothing" so the spider stem of the word above
"appears to embody the idea of mental ability of an order higher than common-superior intelligence."

Beautiful web, Cherokee...
it should hold many special catches!

Hi SDRer:
I've set up for the season. Found a connection and am ready to see how the Christmas action plays out.
Hard to post and read from this ancient portable, but I can't get along without checking in on kitco.

Keep up the great posts.

ALL:
Wow..... just finished watching a "hot off the press" American documentary news flash on a South American satellite channel ( lasted 1 hour ) , narrated by well known persons, with gravely serious faces. It featued testimonies by several top level U.S. scientists who have been working for the goverment, and decided to come forward with previously classified information. As hard as I found it to believe my ears, ( better said, that "they" would permit such a documentary to be broadcasted ) the testimonies and raw video footage of experiments with UFO's, that they officially declared the massive existance of extraterrestial beings on earth at this moment, and showed footage of a UFO craft in the US goverment's possession......being operated by a human in test flights! All included were descriptions of the propulsion systems, and notably missing from the documentary was the mention of the physical beings or their description, only the remark that they are here in great numbers.

I don't know if this was aired anywhere outside of the third world ( that would l exclude J. Disney in South Africa ) ..... which if not... would mean it was probably aired to monitor public response prior to airing in the real world..

The channel was MUNDO, an American broadcaster directed to South America.

Comments?

FWIW Might get a bounce on Monday morning ,time to get out.
Gold stocks will test their lows until after New year.

For some affected patients there is a new psychotherapy called goldbug
rehabilitation. During the rehab, the patient compares himself to Bill
Clinton and hopes that all of his problems go away.

Panda: I recently bought back into Stillwater at 16 13/16 hoping to ride the next wave. Production is going up and the hedging is now under control of a committee ( better than one? ) It's still a cheap way to own platinum.

It appears that you and John D. are not getting along for some reason.
Disagreements are generally normal and even useful. I do respect your beliefs and I do not think that somebody can be 100% wrong or 100% right all the time.

However, we should not forget that John Disney is THE INSIDER in regard
to what is happening in RSA, he lives there. As I read him, I can
imagine that he has seen a lot of stuff, he does have knowledge of both
mining, politics and RSA situation, and again, HE LIVES IN SOUTH AFRICA.

I can also imagine that if he felt uncomfortable, and with his ability
to change the place of residence, he would left RSA unless he really
believes that RSA situation is not so grave as we might think.

A couple of years ago I sincerely belived that RSA is gonna die, I expected a big shooting to occur, which would completely destroy
SA gold mining and make me rich just because I was dealing only
with NA mining stocks. It did not happen, I was wrong in assuming
that tensions over there are so high that bloodbath is A MUST to follow.
Where did we get those assumptions? From various sourses outside
RSA, as a rule.

John Disney may not be a 100% IDEAL human being, some people may
have some feelings in regard to some of his feelings, but I do not
care about this little smoke, I want to see real fire. It's fire
that boiles the water, not smoke. It should be nothing personal,
strictly bisuness, unless of course, somebody really pulls gun on
you with intention to kill, but I doubt this is a case...

Sorry for repeating myself, but John Disney lives in RSA and
we live in the U.S., and it makes a BIG DIFFERENCE.

By the way, good friends of mine visited RSA 7 months ago and
they were very much impressed. They also told me that streets
are still clean and food is exceptional.

I guess we should continue to learn as long as we live...

Just saw your post. Click and read about TNX.

http://www.albertastock.com/public/tnx.html

http://blanchard.stockscape.com I think this is what you are looking for. If it does not work give it some time. The link is strange, but it will work eventuallly.

On getting old; I have found that it beats the alternative.

Give it a little more time. I think that the wait will be well worth it.

First, glad you arrived safely! Surprised you're not on the slopes...but Glad so you can see Donald's info!
Date: Sun Dec 21 1997 06:55

( ASEAN nations agree to trade among themselves avoiding dollar
transactions ) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971220/malaysia_thailand_tr_3.html

Donald, youve done it again!

A. Goose and I developed a short list of indicators that might signal the dollars demise. # 1 was countries asserting a dis-inclination for using $ in their trade. We thought this would appear quietly, behind the scenes...
Brillant catch Donald! Many, many thanks!

To mr shaselduck

The source of my "information" was simply the English

language Sunday Morning papers - the Sunday Times and

the Sunday Argus.

That pathetic "site" where you get your info is a

sensationalist style joke. Who are you anyway ??

Whats you point ? What are you trying to prove ?

That you're SMART?? Well you can forget that one as

far as Im concerned.

Are you implying that what I said was wrong and what

you said was right?? - Shall I dig up your dopey

predictions and read them back to you ? Who cares.

Your Henry Kissinger style forecasts were clownsville

You called a revolution over PW Botha and Winnie for

Deputy Prime Minister. MY gardener who is not analytically

inclined knew a lot better than that. I tried nicely at

first to correct you - but man you just keep right on

talking crap. You are a pompous and silly putzt. If you

want to read about SA, I think Business day has a

responsible site. However, its a fairly sophisticated

paper, I doubt if you could comprehend it. P*** OFF.

Hilarious post. I truly was amazed to see these little men playing Lacrosse the way they did.

Of course with my personality it is easy to see why they asked me to play crease defence. Go figure.

December 21, 1997
Ontario: It's beginning to look a lot like . . .the 51st state

TORONTO ( CP ) - After another year of tight-fisted Conservative rule in Ontario, Canada's most populous province is starting to look a lot like the 51st state.

Despite the decline in Tory popularity, it's too early to rule out a second majority in the next election, expected in 1999 or 2000.

Harris advisers say it's critical to keep the focus on what the Tories do best, fiscally responsible management of government spending. At a year-end media session, Harris tried to silence detractors by arguing his government's $6 billion in cuts have bolstered the economy and created jobs
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/NationalTicker/CANOE-wire.YEAR-Ontario.html

Thanks for your view. I should like to comment on a few facts which
you may not have picked up on in my posts or responses about SA.
You say HE lives there, well the sources I gave ZA NOW is a
prominent South African Newspaper, I am indeed getting my facts
from a number of sources in SA. They live there too. I am not sure
where you got the idea that my facts came from sources in NA. Last
night we heard a rather emotional outburst, ( nothing I condon ) from
Pete about GSC and how some here may have been mislead by
following ONE viewpoint!
I am attempting to bring to the attention of this discussion group, facts
from reliable SA sources, about SA that are different from what is
being said here by some, and always quoting said SA sources to
perhaps give a balanced view so that readers can make up their own
minds fron the various SA sources. Rest assured that said name callers etc... use"cute" tactics to solely promote their biased view, and not
permit a reasonable exchange of facts and ideas.. I had investments in SA, and Rhodisia at one time, and some friends still do, and it is
President Mandela himself who said the "whites have a plan to
sabotage the economy if they did not get their way" so perhaps, rather than just liking someone because he is something like a jester or funny, I
suggest you look to see if he has responded directly to those facts
which contradict what he is saying, and leave the funny stuff
to comedians. I'm not interested in dwelling on SA, I only post when
there is NEWS. Get the FACTS ( or as many as possible ) before
investing anywhere!!

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971221/metro_train_and_bus_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971220/mexico_s_pemex_hikes_1.html

Give us the URL so we can read the facts just the FACTS.

LGB: I wasn't clear as to the implication of your 15:53 posting regarding the surging sales of gold. Is it possible that you ( the infinitely wise and immensely humble LGB ) ( :- ) ) are considering going long on the yellow metal? My gosh!! If so, perhaps I ought to re-evaluate my short gold positon! N'est pas?

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971219/mexico_november_trad_1.html

At this moment in history you are right that different countries will demand that for exchange in their borders you will use the local currency. But there are few places in the world that United States currency cannot be exchanged for goods and services. And at this time you can back your american dollars with gold for 290 to the ounce. 1998 you will be able to back your dollars at 250 to the ounce. ( imho ) But in the near future the government will expand the limitations on creating wealth. They will limit how and where one can start a business. And from that, tribute to the powers will be demanded. And the penalty for not complying will be the loss of your life. And probably your families too. Gold is truly a political metal. And politicans cannot be trusted. If one thinks that at some point a country will stand up and say they are backing their currency in gold the country will be bankrupt within the week. The traders will cur that countries throat. The continued price pressure on gold is an effort to make people forget about gold as money. That real wealth is created by governments. And this wealth is passed to those deemed credit worthy. All government is afraid of freedom. Free people on occasions will make stupid mistakes and they must be protected from themselves. If one wants to create wealth it must be in a form that can be controled and taxed. Just think of the mess the world would be in if the majority of people made their living working for themselves in unregulated areas. How can you tax the sweat of a man that will invest in equipment and spend weeks or months in the desert or beside a stream to take gold from mother nature. How can you place a value on his effort and what he finds. You cant. So this activity must be stopped. Recreational miners are finding it harded and harder to comply with regulations. They want us out of business. Do I think this will happen in 1998, not at this time. But I do see it in the next ten years. And as for what I see in 1998 I just try to look to spring. This evening me and my dead comanche buddies are going to have a chat, watch the stars come out on a clear Texas sky and smoke a fine Madero to the next three moons. I will let you know how they are feeling.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971219/mexico_cetes_rate_le_1.html

brave oris -

Thank you - What you say is true. My motives in spending the time

that I do at this site reporting on SA has NOTHING to do with

"self interest" - It doesnt affect me at all if any of you buy Rsa

stocks or not. Or if you think SA will crash and burn tomorrow morning.

I have a house in South Africa and I have a house in Europe. I like

it here because the weather is good and people speak english - The

infrastructure is Much better than Europe. I avoid townships because

im not stupid. Ive never been robbed here or felt threatened in any

way. If I want to leave I can do so at any time. South Africa has

problems - the biggest being the education system. But it seems to be solving them in its own way.

Im not particularly "patriotic" about rsa - and my investment would

be spead between here and Australia - with some puts on the s&p.

But Ive made a lot of money over the past 20 years playing the

South African Mines. Also I have a VERY low tolerance for Bullshit

and "conventional wisdom" - hence my reaction to Tsadeak's painfully

uninformed and adolescent attacks of hysteria. Along with Haggis's

know all attitude based on one year in the woop woop of the free state.

Frankly, If this pompous and annoying crapola sniping continues

much longer - Ill shut down and lurk from time to time and you can

get your information from these two oatmeal eaters.

I can use the time in better ways than trying to educate some guy

whose mouth is out of all proportion to his brain. who needs the grief?

Nonetheless, Brave Oris - the Invitation still stands. And I respectfully await your advice on the vodka.

- FRB Top-Dog Shares His Candid Opinion On Gold

- Greenspan: Still Going for the Gold

Once at the following website, scroll down until you see Mr. Greenspans bright-eyes peeping out at you, then CLICK him... where ever you like. IF you do NOT see Greenspans photo, RELOAD THE PAGE:

http://www.gold-eagle.com

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971219/dresdner_sees_gold_p_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971219/canada_yield_curve_f_1.html

Is about to start and then where will the masses find a safe haven? It
all seems to simple until you look back and remember the pain attached
to executing a trade in gold when it seemed you were the only trader
going long!!!!! Asia will sell the U.S. Dollar and buy gold in a fashion
that will trigger one the most spectaclar short squeezes we have ever
seen. The Producers will hedge and when abx breaks $100.00 a share or
more every analyst alive will be touting gold as a hedge against currency
devaluation!

Wonderfull logic in Joseph Miller last installment

If memory serves me correctly it was Will Durant in Mansions of Philosophy who said something like, "the exceptional is dragged down to the lowest common denominator."

Don't be too harsh as I am a highscool drop-out.

G'Day From Kalgoorlie,

"Once a Scot always a Scot"........Och Aye, glad to see that you got something right.

"Scots, wha hae wi' Wallace bled,
Scots, wham Bruce has aften led,
Welcome to your gory bed
Or to victorie!"

Robert Burns, August 30, 1793.

Aye, Haggis

to all

If anybody wants a resposible site for info on

RSA try the business day site - http://www.bday.co.za:80/

The site that poor slashdick uses is called

SA today or something like that - In 9 years here

ive never seen this paper on any news stand.

These sites are only current through friday - the info

I provided today was from todays sunday papers. I only

did so because the abovementioned person had made

some really dumb and misleading predictions that I felt

needed correcting.

They were in regard to winnie's power in RSA and

later to the importance of pw botha's refusal to attend

the TRC. I was right in correcting him - I dont care

what he does with his dough. But i dont like to see

people clutch at and quote half truths to try to prove

their point or advance their agendas ( whatever they may

be ) .

See the above - Mr sassleak - I dont get my info

on RSA from URLs you knothead I live here. I just read

the paper. Its a lot easier. Now take your big mouth

and P*** OFF

When the Spudsters ( meister ) is short the gold...yeah right, and the sun won't rise in the morning...

When Ted leaves Canada....Finally.

When JohnD doesn't give it to somebody and I end up peeing my pants...

When the Great Cherokee runs out of Arrows...and tobacky...er...yum, yum.

When JFT...uh...JTF...runs out of sound reasoning and good posts.

When Auratorreallyunderstandshisnativelanguageandmovestomontana...;-^ )

When KIWI finally buys the Yankee-Toilet-Paper.....ugh.

When the real Cat returns.......??!?...ohno...

When Silver DOESN"T retrace ( drop ) after a rally......doh!

When Donald does not sniff out the story ( no offense 6pak and no mercy ) ...

When tolerant1 doesn't have a chubby for Karlito...

the list goes on....but I gotta go get on a plane and fly out to meet with Billc and then buzz over to the Ukraines to moniter a new gold mine and then holiday for a few weeks in France with Aurator and NickC ( wink ) and then pick up a pulitzer I have waiting for me and then swing down to RSA for a little coffee with me freind before concording home to my third house in geneva to deliver a key-note speech to a bunch of CB prezzys........oh yeah.....almost forgot...........

When gold gets off it dead-ass......go baby go!! ..er...c'mon girl! Git Up! ....uh........ok...go back to sleep.......... ( arrows flying ) .......... ( wimmin and chillin being protected ) ................c'mon little boy........be a MAN!.....honk, honk.......gittoutta my way!!!! i'm trying to make money here...??!?

away...to the dark-padded room

crazylikeafox

My chubby is so hard for Karlito you could cut glass with it!

No Strad, I havn't become a Gold Bull. I found the tidbit about AE sales interesting, because it disproves the Kitco myth that "herd" mentality always rules the "little guy" investor, be it on the DOW bull side, bear side, or even in the metals investments.

In fact, even as Gold falls and we see ultra bearish articles right and left, the "little guy" has been taking advantage of the low prices to buy.

Same thing in reverse is happening in Asian markets. In direct contradiction to prevelant Kitco wisdom, that Govt. financial crises brings out the buyers, the opposite has ocurred. The Asians are divesting themselves of Gold, to raise cash, and demand has fallen. Quite the opposite of what has been predicted here so many times.

OK, so Bull or Bear on Gold? I've been saying I thought that $280 was a good bottom for Gold, and so far, this seems to have held true. I'm putting no money in the stuff, because I feel Silver has much better short and long term gain potential. that's where my discretionary pile is primarily residing at the moment, Silver. Though I did buy quite a few Platinum AE's last week to take advantage of the low prices there. When them cheap Asian goods flood begins, they're gonna need LOTS of Platinum to make all those catalytic converters and such!

The Religion of MONEY: With skillful application of usury ( Compound-Complex Interest added onto loans ) bankers have emerged as the strongest of professions. By the mid-seventeenth century, they had gathered together in one place, each bringing their immense wealth into a mountain valley. Here, they said, Will Reside The Most Neutral Of Countries SWITZERLAND. In this mountain valley rich bankers quietly merged their vast fortunes and secretly financed all wars - all to be fought, of course, in foreign lands.

These new bankers obviously comprehended the second greatest lesson our history teaches: **War creates debt and debt creates war.**

The greatest lesson is "that by controlling the monetary system of each country and adding interest to the loans made there, International Bankers can indebt each independent country to the point where there is no way of ever paying off these loans"

None of this would be possible, of course, if the leaders of these countries were the honest servants of the public they claim to be, ethical politicians who work diligently for the benefit of their constituents.

It therefore became imperative for these bankers to search out and to identify the most greedy, blackmailable and highly intelligent prospects for leadership they could find, before "Sponsoring" these corrupt politicians' leadership campaign, or, just prior to exercising their very significant influence in order to promote preferred public service mandarins.

Bank of England was created in 1694 -- Federal Reserve 1913 ( Woodrow Wilson ) Bank of Canada 1935 ( William Lyon MacKenzie King )

Since the international ownership of these nation's right to print money, all big bankers, all big corporations, all big labour unions and big media are of like mind when it comes down to sharing the GOOD life at the taxpayer's expense.

With ever-spiralling tax increases are needed to pay interest/usury annually, simply because the international bankers stole the "WE THE PEOPLE " printing press.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971219/canada_ups_cwb_malt__1.html

The Giants are looking great.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971219/canada_dollar_opens__1.html

Time will prove all and if you would just show some patience and some
class we would not have to read your attempts to stroke your bleeding ego!

All this handwringing every time Gold moves up or down a half precent or less. After a long protracted, bloody, 17 year fall, culminating in it's present low which far eclipses previous $280 levels when you consider it's lost value relative to inflation of other commodities, goods, and services.

Meanwhile, Silver has gone up almost 50% in value, since it's lows of only months ago! Wake up metals investors. The shine is on the Silver and Gold has lost it's glitter. Nothing will change this anytime soon.

For those interested in South African News Sources, plus other African newspapers, you will find a rather large array of them at the following URL:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/daily_news/dn2.html

I have said URL you posted you gave to me two weeks ago, but I
don't read anything in there that contradicts Mr. Mandela's Statement
"the Whites have a plan to sabotage the economy" . Isee you like to
dish it out, but when a reliable fact contradicts "your view" you threaten
us, that you'll take your ball and play your game elsewhere.

49'rs RULE, just look how they whipped DENVER's Arse, eh Dave in CO!

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971219/emerging_debt_weaken_1.html

John Disney: Would you please share any anysights you have on the short, medium and long term prognosis for Platinum, given the Asian situation. Also, is there any source you know of from which I could get an inkling as to SA platinum production costs, how and when the SA producers set their prices and to what effect does the spot platinum price have on their decision making process re: production goals. Thanx.

IMHO, of course.

......Has......been..........smokin.........some......gnarly......dope..........again

for Reggie Brown of the Lions.

OH Pardon Me

Ah tell a lie. Zadeek'SA today or whatever - he is reading from

the local weekly local collaboration with the English GUARDIAN --!!!!!

The guardian - dear dumbo is the voice of the English Labour

party - It is a left wing rag old beano - I wouldnt even let anybody

know Id read an issue. For shame --- the Guardian YUK -

read business day - Its lots more even handed

I confess that maybe once a year or so I buy one to take home to read in the john just to see whats happening with the peasants.

Why dont you quote from the morning star or pravda maybe?

Now I understand you poor thing - the Guardian Hates South Africa

particularly White South Africans and always has. No wonder you're

so screwed up - you've been reading the Guardian.

EB: You are crazy like a fox. Bryant Park is waiting...

Noted U.S. stock market expert continues to lean towards Dow 5700-6400 being seen sometime in front of the middle of next year, regardless of how high it might get in early '98 weeks ( which is absolutely the Street's plan, but clearly capable of being derailed by even hints of news, which should worry traders, especially this time of year ) . In fact he asserts, If anything my Dow leanings might be too optimistic ( by about a thousand Dow points or so ) . Regarding current market action, he gleefully says, "WOW, I'm glad we're SHORT!"

1998 looks grim for common stocks:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/inger121997.html

ALL:
Wow..... just finished watching a "hot off the press" American documentary news flash on a South American satellite channel ( lasted 1 hour ) , narrated by well known persons, with gravely serious faces. It featued testimonies by several top level U.S. scientists who have been working for the goverment, and decided to come forward with previously classified information. As hard as I found it to believe my ears, ( better said, that "they" would permit such a documentary to be broadcasted ) the testimonies and raw video footage of experiments with UFO's, that they officially declared the massive existance of extraterrestial beings on earth at this moment, and showed footage of a UFO craft in the US goverment's possession......being operated by a human in test flights! All included were descriptions of the propulsion systems, and notably missing from the documentary was the mention of the physical beings or their description, only the remark that they are here in great numbers.

I don't know if this was aired anywhere outside of the third world ( that would l exclude J. Disney in South Africa ) ..... which if not... would mean it was probably aired to monitor public response prior to airing in the real world..

The channel was MUNDO, an American broadcaster directed to South America.

Comments?

http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/971221/news/stories/korea_6.html

CMAX: You have been living in Venezuela too long. Take it from an honorary Latino en Neuva York.

Y que pasa con el Chupacabrito?

G'Day from Kalgoorlie,

TZADEAK - your last posting "hit it on the head". Our Psuedo South African associate appears to suffer from the SIEGE MENTALITY commonly associated with White South Africans. Debate and rational discussion is not one of their strong points.

Aye, Haggis

Is El Mundo considered to be a reliable news source or more of the National Enquirer type?

cmax-----

the program you watched recently was broadcast across
the us on the discovery channel. ( excellent programming )

the highlight of the program was the video footage of the
top-secret facility, and the actual ACCESS this individual
had to most of the facility! he established concrete credibility--imm--
when he was recognized and allowed access into very sensitive
areas that the gov't denies exists. extremely interesting and
very thought provoking!

sd r----the diaphanous veils of life; some offer support, others nada--

during the moon landing there was an un-edited transmission from
one of the astronauts exploring around the lz. this transmission
is mind-blowing and was recorded by many sources listening to the
astronauts via ham radio. the info is documented and available
if you look hard enough. i'll not delve further, yet.
you want to fall off of your chair? find it, and read it! you'll
not find it on any gov't url.

if you cannot find it let me know and i'll track it down.
maybe "the don" has it in one his files.

------!;-----------bblwtftf---------

Since our presence is now public knowledge, I would like to declare that we come in peace, and will do no harm to anyone who surrenders all their gold. I will give drop off information in a later post.

G'Day from Kalgoorlie,

I would not exclude our associate jOHN dISNEY in South Africa. He most likely knows more than he lets on concerning the Extraterrestial Beings, he may well be one of them.

Aye, Haggis

The quote"the Whites have a plan to sabotage the economy if they
don't get their way" was said at the African National Conference
last week, by President Nelson Mandela.

Haggis_A I just finished a bowl of hot oatmeal.

South Korea: World Bank eyes hefty loan
MONDAY DECEMBER 22 1997
By Bruce Clark in Washington
( Excerpts )
The World Bank board will meet tomorrow to approve a loan of between
$2bn and $3bn to South Korea, a country viewed hitherto as a successful
"graduate" of the agency which no longer needed its help.

In contrast with IMF lending to South Korea, which has been called into
question by US law-makers of left and right, the bank's help to Seoul is
expected to be relatively uncontroversial on Capitol Hill.

From the US government's viewpoint, this is another reason to channel money through the World Bank rather than the International Monetary Fund.

South Korea's finance ministry has appointed GOLDMAN SACHS and Salomon
Smith Barney to develop and implement a financing strategy for next year,
while providing other economic and financial advice.

See, It is no problem! IMF gets bad press, switch to WB...

http://www.businessweek.com:80/1997/52/b3559046.htm

All: I have been instructed by the BORG to pass on this message VERBATIM:
"YOU ALL WILL BE ASSIMULATED. TO RESIST IS FUTILE. YOUR ONLY SALVATION IS TO BARTER YOUR WEIGHT IN GOLD FOR YOUR FREEDOM, OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE WHISKED INTO GALAXY 1385.998473." WE WILL BE AROUND TO EACH OF YOUR DOORS WITHIN THE NEXT 24 HOURS... TO RESIST IS FUTILE, BECAUSE WE ARE ONE.

P.S. JEAN LUK PICARD COULDN'T ANTY UP, SO HE TOO IS NOW ONE, BUT HE SENDS HIS SEASON'S GREETINGS.

For Zadok -

First let me say this - Get St****d

Now thats out of the way - Mandela did say something like that as

part of his five hour speech to the ANC assenbly. He has also said

at other times things like there is a "third force" ready to take over the country. I dont know why he says crap like this. I assume he has

some reason.

ALL Black Africans dread armed South African whites and colored - particularly mercenaries - because of the horrific kill ratios they have

tenden to inflict on their opposition in the past. Maybe Mandela wants to keep Blacks alert. Maybe he really believes it. I dont know. Its not important.

In that long and apparently boring speech, he also blasted the unions

the communist party, and in particular the press. The whtes caught

some flack too. Do you really think the whites have such a plan ??

do you ?? how would it work ?? If there is a white plan to do something,

Ill even tell you what it might be. It would be for the Western Cape to

secceed from South Africa and become independent. Similarly the zulus

might lead a secession of most of Natal. Thats possible - but before

you go all run around like this is YOUR information from YOUR

SoURCES - forget it such a thing wouldnt happen for a long time.

Im sure you dont know this, but African Blacks are in the minority in the western and the northern Cape. These areas were never the traditional home of bantu language speakers.

I never said he didnt say that about whites - it just isnt very important -

mandela is getting old and crotchety - He is on his way to becoming

an irritable old fart. So am I. So you got about one thing close

to right out of about five things - you have proved you can almost

read a newspaper. So what ?? I dont really want to talk to you any

more because I dont like you. Please dont address anything else

to me - its not worth my effort to waste time on such a know all

pompous self important ass. So do us both a favor and with all due

respect P*** OFF

Regarding SWC, tempting isn't it? Unless something truely apocalyptic happens I don't see much downside risk to the stock. That being said, now watch the general market tank and take SWC with it! What a casino, eh?

You know, I was born and spent a considerable
portion of my life in Russia. I am living
in the U.S. now for quite a bit of years.

Both countries have a lot of differences,
but a lot of things are the same. To my
great surprise, I learned that the American
media suffers the the same problem as the
Russian ( former USSR ) media - it can nicely
deliver FALSE or INCORRECT INFORMATION, upon request
from somebody who controls this media.
This is not a conspiracy, this is strictly BUSINESS.

Why do governments deploy their spies in different
countries when their inteligence services have a lot
of access to any printed information they wish to
obtain? Because they need insider outlook, and nothing
can beat this one. One zillion pages of printed word
can not replace 1 page report of eye witness.

By the way, this was the reason I jumped on John Disney
one time, when he posted a message that Russian stockpile
of platinum is gone. He later stated that it is what he was
told by somebody who visited Norilsk... But I lived in Russia,
I was INSIDER, I know all this Russain tricks very well...
and I know they never show real stuff to any foreigner unless
they know this foreigner for many years, drank barrels of vodka
together and have mutual "under the table" financial interests.
I know how the system works in Russia, we still do some business
with them... I've seen platinum in Russia in a places were nobody
could expect to see it. I agree with John Disney that official
production is down, but because I was INSIDER, I know they may
still have some left-overs in some places, and it will appear
on the surface from time to time, causing some strange short term
events in the platinum market, but probably not influencing long term trends.

And knowing this, I do not care
what all this newspapers and WEB sites are feeding me with..., I know
that it's not what all these writters personally see or experience, but it's what they were told to write...with God's help...

Same goes for John Disney, he is INSIDER, and he knows the stuff.
I realized it in relatively short time, and I am not going to teach
him basics of HIS BUSINESS, it's just makes no sense, and it's foolish.
It's like if somebody called ( for example ) Garry Smith, who heard
the word "borsht" or "tovarish" thinks he can teach me Russian language.
My answer to such guy would be a long, well balanced phrase in Russian
with a lot of mentioning this somebody's mother, different organs and
stuff, and without any acsent too...

I think John Disney feels something like that too, and it is natural
feeling after all... I bet you also know something that both he and me do not know, and you would not be happy if somebody would start teaching you
YOUR PROFESSIONAL SUBJECT...

So, lets be realistic and cancel this little war between John D. and you,
please...

Nikkei down 127 points, nearly one percent.

Dear Haggis

I have no wish to debate with a oatmeal eater - Im not going to get

anything out of it - SO UP YOUR KILTS

SWC is money in the bank, when the hedge is trimmed it will sky-rocket.

Thank you for the input on CBI. By the way, great smokes.

If we accept that government bonds and currencies are at best an illusion of wealth, and that stock markets trading at 5 times book value may be over-priced in view of falling profits and currency upheaval, then the only investment alternative is gold. Realizing this, governments have driven down the price of gold. In order for the world to continue to believe in the government promoted illusion, the price of gold must continue to fall. If the world were not on the edge of an economic collapse, the price of gold would not be so low. An analysis by John Kutyn:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/kutyn121797.html

G'Day from Kalgoorlie,

WHAT IS the South African equivalent to the Aussie " Fair dikkum, fair go, no worries, she'll be right".

South Africa, SUCH a happy go lucky, easy going place, AND the people............

Aye, Haggis

You're confused, the documentary you were wacthing was "Men in Black" dubbed into Spanish

I'm not sure you read thru my post, because if you did you would see
that my facts ( most ) are indeed acurate, and I'm not going to waste
my time with him, I'm on to his GAME he is the one that seems to
attack everybody and anybody who says anything, fact or idea about
SA that HE doesn't want us knowing.....
Read his latest post, HE knew all along what Mr. Mandela said an is now attempting to "control damage". May I advise you once again to
gather as much information as possible from all sources, before
investing anywhere.

ORIS: REF Your "To my great surprise, I learned that the American media suffers the the same problem as the Russian ( former USSR ) media - it can nicely deliver FALSE or INCORRECT INFORMATION, upon request from somebody who controls this media. This is not a conspiracy, this is strictly BUSINESS."

This practice is TEN TIMES MORE PREVALENT IN Latin America! Money & Power determine the Latin American spin on the news!

I'd like any opinions on how to diversify a long-term plus short term investment fund out of precious metals without trading options or shorting a market.

http://www.ohio.com:80/bj/business/docs/017457.htm

Japan has been open for 40 minutes and is -100. Keep your eyes on Asia.

Happy Hanukkah ( eight days of light ) to all my Jewish friends.

Looking forward to meeting Arden in Las Vegas next month. Any Kitcoites in Orlando?????? Will be there for a week in Feb.

Own bank stocks? Maaaaay want to rethink your position ( s ) --unless its a short...

AUGUST 21, 1996: BANKS SET FOR ACCORD TO CUT CREDIT RISKS
FT George Graham, Banking Correspondent

European and Japanese banks are poised to slash billions of dollars from the credit risks they run up with each other in the $6,000bn cross-border deposit market.

British banking experts have drafted a standard agreement which they believe will allow banks a legally watertight way of offsetting their deposits with each other, whatever the currency, if either should default.

WHAT THE AGREEMENT SAYS IS THAT IF I LEND YOU $100M IN STERLING AND YOU LEND ME $100 IN YEN, WE ARE EVEN., EXPLAINED ONE LONDON BANKER CLOSELY INVOLVED WITH DRAFTING THE ACCORD, WHICH WAS LAUNCHED YESTERDAY BY THE BRITISH BANKERS ASSOCIATION.

Barclays Bank in the UK intends to sign agreements to offset deposits in this way with 30-40 banks which are its biggest trading partners.
I think this is a major step towards reducing the risk that pervades the market said Mr. Ashley Dowson, Barclays head of systemic risk management.

Japanese banks are also expected to be keen to adopt the agreement.

Many Japanese banks have in the last year found it hard to attract interbank deposits because of fears over the stability of their countrys financial system.

There is heavy interest from Japan because Japanese banks still have large balance sheets, said Mr. Michael Tagai at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi in London.

A Big international bank might well have deposits with other banks of $50bn or more, and some bankers estimate that one third of that could typically be netted out.

That would result in a substantial reduction in the size of a banks balance sheet, and could save it $200m a year on the cost of maintaining a capital cushion to cover its exposure.

Banks already use this kind of agreement to net out offsetting debts in domestic deposit markets as well as trading of derivatives such as options.

But they have been unsure whether they could make the offsetting claims stand up in international courts in the event of a default. In such cases, receivers and liquidatores seek to call in every deposit the defaulting bank has made while not paying back the deposits it holds from other banks.

Moreover, commercial law in many countries regards foreign currencies as commodities, not as money, which makes it more difficult to offset one currency against another.

But the netting agreement has been vetted by lawyers in Japan, Switzerland, Germany, France and Belgium - countries which account for most of the global deposit market.

London bankers believe that the agreement also has a good chance of standing up to the legal challenge in the US, but they are more cautious about this.
Copyright the Financial Times Limited AUGUST 21, 1996

IS COMMUNISM IN RUSSIA really DEAD? Or is it covered up until it is needed for an agenda?

Happy Chaunakah
and Merry Christmas

BillinOregon: Please give us all details.

http://www.amcity.com:80/albany/stories/121597/smallb3.html

http://www.csicop.org/sb/9512/i-files.html

Merry Christmas & Happy Hanukkah.

Happy Chanukah
Merry Christmas
Happy Kwanzae ( the latter is new but we should respect it //all )

http://dcn.davis.ca.us/~btcarrol/skeptic/ufos&ets.html#ufo

Globex now -270

http://www.csicop.org/si/9709/sheaffer.html

russia down 5%

japan down 112pts....

europe down across the board except slovakia & finland...screamin buys..

10 days or less for 'our' contribution to the panic factor....

Gold UP $1.9O in Comex trading, and UP Yen7 in TOKYO. Go to Gold Corner - 24 HOUR Trading. Click "Day & Night Trading," and TOKYO GOLD.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/quotes/goldcorner.html

http://www.csicop.org/si/9707/cult.html

http://www.csicop.org/si/9705/moonshine.html

http://www.smithers.co.uk/standard11.html

http://www.csicop.org/si/9703/ufo.html

Not that this sheds much more light on it. Sunday December 21, 6:26 pm Eastern Time

Homestake requests trading halt - ASX

SYDNEY, Dec 22 ( Reuters ) - The Australian Stock Exchange ( ASX ) said on Monday it applied a trading halt to
the shares of Homestake Mining Co ( NYSE:HM - news ) , at the request of the company, pending the release of an
announcement.

Homestake shares last traded in Australia on December 2, closing at A$12.15 a share.

Homestake has mining operations in the United States, Canada and Australia.

To All: Let us not forget the true, scientific, readily checkable, year after year, mathematical Holy Day we are now entering...the Winter Solstice. The True Christmas whence the powers of light begin to recover against the maximum dark. When the glorious Sun, that giver of Life, that emblem of the Christ, begins its march to eventual balance with the darkness in the spring, and then in the equinox, resurrects as the Risen One... to lead the way to the fullness of light over darkness. May we all prevail over darkness by the Light that is in us all. HappyHolyDays, everyone. Have yourself an astrological Christmas, and a wondrous Chanukkah too.

Feliz Navidad.

The stock market and the precious metals remain in the same condition as they have for several months -- the stock market is headed for a crash, gold and silver are headed sharply higher.

Spoken as a true poet and gentleman Mike, but, what would the Auusie's say?

Silver is now the leader for the precious metals. It is on the verge of breaking out to the upside -- making a 10-year high if it closes above $6.10. Once that happens, it will skyrocket. The longer the base, the more powerful the blast-off when over-head resistance is broken. $10 silver may not be too far ahead of us, once the $6.10 barrier is broken.

At that point, gold will also begin to rally. It's only a matter of time before the massive short-position in gold gets squeezed to their financial death.

Nikkei 15,000 is being defended. http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/je3tbc/html/sthome.html

BANGKOK, Dec 21 ( AFP ) - The state Export-Import Bank of Japan
will extend up to 600 million dollars in new loans to Thailand to
support exporters hit by a liquidity crunch, the Thai finance
minister was quoted as saying Sunday.
Minister Tarrin Nimmanahaeminda, who returned Saturday from a
visit to Tokyo to seek the support of Japanese creditors, said a
deal for the loans could be concluded in the first quarter of next
year, the Bangkok Post reported.
The loans, to be denominated in yen, could be disbursed by the
Thai Export-Import ( EXIM ) Bank or the Industrial Finance Corporation
of Thailand, he said.
In October, the EXIM Bank signed an agreement with five foreign
institutions, including the Industrial Bank of Japan, to borrow 500
million dollars to relieve liquidity pressures on exporters, the
Post said.
These funds are provided as credits to exporters against
confirmed orders, and lent at subsidised interest rates in a scheme
undertaken in conjunction with Thai commercial banks.
Japan's support is critical to Thailand, which is hoping that
the 40 percent plunge in the baht since it was floated in July, will
help boost exporters and haul the country back from its worst
economic crisis in decades.
During his visit to Japan, Tarrin also secured an agreement with
Japanese banks to roll over loans made to the Thai private sector
and convert dollar-denominated borrowings to yen.
Difficulties in repaying foreign debts in dollars has brought
many Thai companies to the verge of bankruptcy because of the
depreciation of the Thai unit against the greenback.
Japanese bank are the Thai private sector's biggest creditors,
having lent some 40 billion dollars -- out of the total private
sector foreign borrowings of 72 billion dollars.
Olarn Chaipravat, chairman of the Thai Bankers Association, who
accompanied Tarrin to Japan, said Saturday that converting loans to
yen would "reduce the dollar currency risk and interest rate burden"
for Thai businesses.
Paying creditors in yen would reduce the interest rate being
paid by Thai borrowers by five to six percent, he added.
Of the total private sector debt, 37 billion dollars is due for
repayment over the next 12 months, Thai officials say.

Just 26.67 more to go.

With ya on Silver pal, how're them S&P Dec. PUTS doin though?

The Jerk is back and he's off Prozac.
The Top 10 Ways to Recognize a Jerk

1. They interrupt and always try to prove your wrong.

2. They are experts on every subject.

3. They take advantage of people who are down.

4. They attempt to score small victories and then gloat.

5. They are sullen in defeat ( go away but always come back ) .

6. They are not fair -- read selfcentered.

7. They lack integrity -- they don't know the meaning.

8. They are the people you hope you won't grow up to be like.

9. They are the kind of person you wouldn't want your sister ( or
brother or child ) to marry.

10. They are the kind of person you'll avoid, if you can break free
of them.

I wonder who that describes?

And don't forget to check the site posted a few minutes ago for those Lunar cycle theory book reviews.

last link I promise... http://www.geocities.com/Area51/7595/

yeah...I'd be cranky like that too if I'd been a Goldbug these past few years, Merry Christmas!

Leon Trotsky procured a special passport from President Woodrow Wilson, while residing in New York City. A journalist Lincoln Steffens, accompanied Trotsky. The journey to Russia was interrupted in Halifax, when the Canadian Secret Service ( RCMP ) arrested Trotsky on April 03 1917, and interned him.

The RCMP had been tipped off that Trotsky's intent was to return to Russia, in order to take Russia out of the war against Germany. This would free many German divisions to fight against Allied Forces on the Western Front *Canada ( WW I 1914 to 1919 ) USofA ( WW I 1918 to 1919 ) *

The patriotic RCMP were protecting their countrymen by confining this dangerous revolutionary. A world-wide furore ensued when it was announced that Trotsky, an important agent of the international bankers, had been arrested in Halifax.

England's Prime Minister, Lloyd George, immediately demanded that Trotsky be released; President Woodrow Wilson chimed in with a similar demand. The Canadians ignored both of them. What to do ? The international bankers plan for the Communist revolution was seriously endangered.

It was at this historic juncture that the international bankers called in a marker with MacKenzie King ( Prime Minister ) . King came to Trotsky's rescue, and sent Trotsky on his way, and the revolution in Russia took place on schedule ( October 1917 )

In March 1918 the Germans concluded peace with the new Bolshevik government. The germans moved large numbers of troops from east to west. The Americans, meanwhile were sending their army overseas as fast as it could be raised. To-wards the end of 1918 the weight of American numbers would begin to tell; the trick for the Allies ( Canada ) was to last that long.

14991.71 -323.18 -2.11%

I will get Camdesuss. Don't be stupid and bet against me.

Top ten ways to know you're being critiqued by a Kitcoite;

1 ) You're a Lemming/sheep/Moron if you made money on Equities

2 ) You're a cold hearted, egocentric, know it all if you ever get so bold as to make honest statements or hold others to their own predictions.

3 ) You're stupid if you don't realize that 800% DOW gains are mythical, and Gold has really held it's own during it's purchasing power drop of 400%.

4 ) You're juvenile and puerile if you make sarcastic comments about belief in tooth fairies, UFO's, and Santa CLause

5 ) you're not a nice person if you critisize professional "Investment Advisors" who cost their readers millions with bad advice.

6 ) You're an ignorant, arrogant, know nothing. blowhard, if you are not "certified and credentialed" when you succeed in life where brilliant academics and "pros" continue to get it all wrong.

7 ) You must have a dour, grim, humorless, and serious manner, in order to be a true Goldbug ( unles you are ridiculing successful investors, than humor and sarcasm is OK.. )

8 ) You should never make a statement that could be considered pejorative, if it's directed at someone who worships metal. For the "metals" unbelievers however, death threats are ok, and demonstarte mature discourse.

9 ) Down is up, up is down

10 ) The worst day for Gold, is better than the best day for Equities...

( I'd rather be fishing )

15K breached. Look out below.

Return to Headlines
Homestake ( NYSE:HM ) to buy Plutonic ( AUS:PLU ) -sources

Reuters, Sunday, December 21, 1997 at 20:08

NEW YORK, Dec 21 ( Reuters ) - Gold producer Homestake Mining
Co is on the verge of announcing the acquisition of
Australian-based Plutonic Resources Ltd in a friendly
transaction, according to sources familiar with the deal.
Financial details were not immediately available. The
stocks of both companies were halted for trading in Australian
markets.
Company officials in New York declined to comment.
The deal will mark the latest in a round of gold industry
consolidations that is expected to stretch into 1998.
Earlier this year, San Francisco-based Homestake lost a $2
billion takeover battle for control of Newmont Mining Corp
( NYSE:NEM ) , which was sold to Santa Fe Pacific Gold Corp.
Gold stocks have been hurt by a sharp decline in prices for
the precious metal, which this year have fallen to the lowest
level in 18 years. Although demand for gold is at record
levels, the market has been pressured by the world's central
banks, which have been selling or lending their gold in
increasing quantities.
Shares of Homestake closed Friday at 9-15/16, still close
to a year-low of 9-6/16.
Plutonic is Australia's third-largest gold producer,
operating five mines in the western region. Malaysian Mine Corp
Bhd owns a 36 percent stake in Plutonic.

Copyright 1997, Reuters News Service

Cherokee:
Thanks for the reply. Its amazing how something so incredible and capable of changing our way of thinking can be just blown off by the general public without much consideration. But then, when the LBMA made their announcement, I blew my lungs out about its implications to the gold market, and how wrong we have all been, and no one
on KITCO really paid much attention in the beginning ( except Vronsky ) . Now look where we are.
What were the basic contents of that old NASA transmission that was intercepted from the moon?

Mike Sheller:
No se que pensar del chupacabra. Es una vaina bastante rara, y hay poca evidencia. Podria ser un producto de la rica imaginacion del Venezolano. Sin embargo, si hay bastantes sangijuelas de dos patas.
My wife is a Doctor who checked into the chupacabra, and could not find any evidence.

Donald:
No, MUNDO is a very serious satellite documental television channel.

Vronsky:
I know the latin press all too well. One becomes an expert on reading between the lines all too quickly.

Haggis:
No, I dont think Disney is an extraterrestial; his language is too foul for an intelligent sentient being.... they would know how to express themselves in words with more than 4 letters. By the way, what is his problem with oatmeal?? He must have had it force fed as a child.

LGB:
Maybe you should look into this report too. It was too credible to not believe.

The Nikkei 14996 low of many months ago was just taken out with a vengeance! The Nikkei is now 14954, DOWN 360 POINTS, OR DOWN 2.4% in early morning trading in the Land of the Setting Sun!!!!! The outlook is indeed bleak for Japanese stockholders... and since Japan is the second largest economy and stock market in the world, and the Domino Effect is imposing its negative weight and impact upon all other markets, we are looking at a possible "BLACK CHRISTMAS FOR THE WORLD."

A "White Christmas" can only be preserved via GOLD.

Nikkei down 2.5%...fast approaching 14,900...S&P Futures beginning to head south...look out below!

AHHHH Finally, a topical post........

You could tell when 15K was breached...globex dropped 3 points in 5 min...

I have three words for you: BETTY FORD CLINC

I only have one word for you: AMEN

The stock market situation in the US remains as dangerous as ever. I have been expecting a "margin debt" liquidation. It has happened in Asia, but not in the US. Margin debt on the NYSE continues to expand. At the end of November, it reached a record $130 billion. It has expanded every month since April!

Also, the other form of leveraging ( derivative open-interest ) continues to expand. On listed derivatives, the open-interest hit a record 61 million contracts last week. Speculators continue to pour into the financial markets in the US.

However, mutual-fund investors are starting to leave. AMG Data Services reports that equity mutual-fund investors only put $1 billion into their coffers since the October 27th panic. Then, last week, they withdrew $1 billion. Then, this week, they withdrew $2 billion. It seems, mutual-fund investors are becoming increasingly nervous with each passing week. Has a "run on the mutual-funds" finally begun?

In 1929, it was a "run on the banks" that created the panic. This time, it will be a "run on the mutual-funds" that brings about our financial down-fall. I believe it has started.

For those of us short the equity markets...Christmas is at least getting paler

The lesson from past bubbles is this: the greater the leveraging, the greater the crash. For that reason, those expecting a crash of 50% may be surprised. It may be more like 70% or 80%. The amount of leveraging in the US financial markets is mind-bogling.

A crash to DJIA 2000 in a matter of a few weeks is very likely. The only question remaining is: When?

here here, bro....

Topical, yes, but Reuters said that Sante Fe Pacific bought NEM. Should have been vice versa.

Hong Kong market also falling fast...below 10,250..1.51% loss

God has answered my prayers!

Puetz is back!

It is imperative to a novice like myself that you and INTOLERANT 1, VRONSKY, ETC. and all the rest of you including LGB and KARLITO to keep posting. From the broad base of information brought forward we can prepare for what lies ahead. I don't know where else I can get all this information.

Yahoo has the Nikkei under 15000 @ 9:02

The NASDAQ O-T-C market has already made a significant break-down. For those technicians who are familiar with a "head-and-shoulders" topping formation, the NASDAQ has completed that formation, and has broken below its neckline. That action indicates a massive drop in NASDAQ stocks during the coming weeks.

In the early 1980s I began to follow Joe Granville. After his sell everything recommendation in 1980, it became apparent to me that Joe was consistently wrong on the market. When Joe said buy, I sold, when he said sell, I bought. In the past two decades, Joe Granville has compiled the worst record of any investment advisor on Wall Street. Doing the opposite of what he has recommended has been an almost certain path to riches.

Last summer Joe went from being bearish to bullish, citing his Neptune theory. Following Joes advice. I sold in early august and began looking for someplace to put my money. Thats when I stumbled on this site, thinking that gold might be a good alternative.

Seeing the ridiculous arguments being made for gold, I concluded that I had found another Joe Granville, so I shorted gold. A great investment.

I also found another market Granville in Steve Puetz... If Steve says sell, I am going to be buying with both fists.... thanks Steve, investment advice like yours is invaluable, the challenge, as always is knowing what to do with what you are being told..... Keep up the good work.

Dave in CO: It just shows you what the media knows about GOLD, and how accurately they report.
At least they are consistent.....

Globex at -510

Mr. Puetz: 180 billion in margin is a big number until you compare it with the 5 trillion value of the market. Margin calls will hurt some of the small fish, but the big players can ante up. The worst case scneario is that a big brokerage has to go hat in hand to the fed or treasury and beg a loan to stay liquid. Leverage is just what AG and BR have and so far they have proven quite adept at using it. By the way, just in case you are right, I have a small investment in the physical metals and even some numismatics. Insurance, you know. : )

forget reuters----

look to the sky for the ss that have been captured here in print..

the future, here on kitco.........for FREE!


10 days or less----------

Interesting.....Vikings are next ( Go GIANTS )

I am saddened at my lack of resolve. Please forgive me. You words resonate and are truly heartfelt by the writer of these words.

December 21, 1997
Minutes of Fed meeting recall difficult days of 1982

WASHINGTON, Dec 21 ( Reuters ) - 1982. The nation is mired in recession. Interest rates are sky high, and Federal Reserve policy-makers worry that a whiff of panic is in the air. "I must say that in recent weeks I've heard the term 'depression' used by businessmen and ordinary people more than I can ever recall," one of the central bank's policy-makers said during a private meeting at the time.

Minutes of the 1982-83 meetings, released by the Fed last week, offer an intriguing glimpse into the closed-door talks the policy-makers held then as they fought to bring runaway inflation under control even as the economy faltered.

From July 1981 through November 1982, the nation was stuck in a recession, according to official statistics. The downturn came as a singular battle to curb rising prices and wages was under way, during which the Fed pushed the discount rate charged on loans to banks as high as 14 percent early in 1981, coming under tough criticism in the process.

Seven times in 1982 the Fed cut the discount rate, from 12 percent when the year began to 8.5 percent by year-end, trying to jump-start the economy as corporate bankruptcies mounted and the savings-and-loan crisis, which utimately led to a massive bailout at the expense of taxpayers, emerged.

"We haven't had a parallel to this situation historically except to the extent 1929 was a parallel," Volcker told other Fed policy-makers in 1982, according to the minutes, evoking memories of the Great Depression.

Economic growth lasted until July 1990, when a recession started that ended in March 1991. Since then, growth has continued unbroken for more than 6-1/2 years.
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/ReutersNews/ECONOMY-FED.html

Karlitto: Please warn us when ( if ever ) you turn bullish on Gold,
for that will be a perfect indicator of a MARKET TOP,
and time TO DUMP all the PM's and run.........

When I was there in the mid 60's it was losing money. It is definitely a grimy monument to the politicians' stupidity & duplicity. I'll e-mail you.

Help please. Fidelity site is inactive.

WORLD MARKETS: http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Try this one: http://quote.yahoo.com/intlmarkets

The top of the day to you both!

Sunday December 21, 9:02 pm Eastern Time

Tokyo Nikkei average falls below key 15,000 level

TOKYO, Dec 22 ( Reuters ) - Japanese stocks extended losses on Monday, with the benchmark index sliding below 15,000 on what traders attributed to aftershocks of last week's insolvency filing by a foodstuffs trading house.

The failure of Toshoku Ltd sparked fears that more Japanese firms may follow the same path, sending the Nikkei average of 225 blue-chip shares down by 360.34 points or 2.35 percent to to 14,954.25. The last time it fell below the key 15,000 level was on November 14, just before leading brokerage Yamaichi Securities Co Ltd went bust.

The Nikkei 225 average was dragged down by concerns over Japanese companies' financial standing, triggered by an insolvency filing by Toshoku ( 8034.T ) last week, traders said.

``There are worries in the market that some companies may not be able to raise enough funds for the end of this year,'' said a broker at a second-tier securities house.

At 0153 GMT, the Nikkei 225 average was down 380.52 points or 2.48 percent at 14,934.37. Nikkei March futures lost 270 points to 14,970.

I will eat your liver in public.

At this point in time I have to agree with your assesment of Stillwater. My problem is that I consistently zig when I should zag...

- FRB Top-Dog Shares His Candid Opinion On Gold

- Greenspan: Still Going for the Gold

Once at the following website, scroll down until you see Mr. Greenspans bright-eyes peeping out at you, then CLICK him... where ever you like. IF you do NOT see Greenspans photo, RELOAD THE PAGE:
http://www.gold-eagle.com

They make better rolling papers.

This prediction gains tremendous credibility after you read the credentials of its author:

About the Author: In 1965 Joseph Miller became a member of the
Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was active in the exchange during the time Currency Futures and Interest Rate Futures were introduced by the Exchange, and served on the Board of Governors of the Exchange for ten years.

If we go back to an earlier section of this paper, we observed that after 1971, when the artificial pressure was lifted from gold prices that prices advanced to a peak of 24 times the old price and settled around approximately 10 times the old price. No two
events in any market develop precisely the same, but just as an
exercise, if something similar happens this time, gold prices might peak near $8,400.00, and settle around $3,500.00 an ounce.

The remote possibility that these numbers can be correct, is enough evidence to make it easy to understand why the central bankers and high government officials around the world want to denigrate, denounce, discard, disown and dislike gold, plus keep prices low. It makes one want to take time to consider what the implications of anything remotely resembling this happening might be. The last time gold had been held down artificially for 37 years. This time, so far, it has only been 17, which may lessen the next rise. On the other hand we have asset markets that have reached such lofty levels, where no less an authority than the FED Chairman has described the situation, as long as a year ago, as "Irrational Exuberance". So who can tell? Let's not lose sight, while we are pondering the question, of the trillions and trillions of fiat megabyte dollars, yen, marks, and what have you, that are whizzing around the world electronically every minute of every hour of every day. They have to end up buying something, and it might just be gold one of these days.

Part II of his mind-blowing essay is located at:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/jmiller122097.html

Time to say goodnight, so good night............ ( least I fall asleep at the keyboard waiting for a response......... )

Chicken feed: Shielded from the truth, I was never trying to imply that the $130 billion in NYSE margin debt was the "chicken feed" leverage in the marketplace. Rather, it's a symptom of the over-all problem.

There are many other forms of leverage -- OTC margin debt, Amex margin debt, unlisted derivatives, T-Bond futures, ... etc. The total leveraging in the marketplace is many trillions of dollars. Taken as a whole, it excedes the excesses in 1929 by a wide margin. As a result, the coming crash will be far greater than the one in 1929.

Noted U.S. stock market expert continues to lean towards Dow 5700-6400 being seen sometime in front of the middle of next year, regardless of how high it might get in early '98 weeks ( which is absolutely the Street's plan, but clearly capable of being derailed by even hints of news, which should worry traders, especially this time of year ) . In fact he asserts, If anything my Dow leanings might be too optimistic ( by about a thousand Dow points or so ) . Regarding current market action, he gleefully says, "WOW, I'm glad we're SHORT!"

1998 looks grim for common stocks:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/inger121997.html

NIKKEI DOWN 538 POINTS to 14776 for a drop of -3.5%... so far...
THE financial Domino Effect continues.....................

ASIA BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARDSPOT - TOKYO BUYING GOLD...

The ORACLE of the Orient long absent from our website has returned with a vengeance in his scathing rebuttal of Central Bank spewing that gold is dead, that gold is no longer a hedge against economic and currency chaos, etc. etc. His succinct and extremely well-documented opinion concludes that Central Bank braying is RUBBISH, RUBBISH AND MORE RUBBISH.

The ORACLE proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the only defense southeast Asians had... AND WILL HAVE - against the on-going currency chaos, stock market turmoil and the regions crumbling bank system is to invest in GOLD. The staunchest and most fanatical anti-GOLDBUGS are obliged to concede to the irrefutable evidence that GOLD is the ONLY SAFE HARBOR vis--vis the looming and devastating Domino Effect engulfing the area:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/oracle121597.html

Gold up 15 cents. Hey at least they must be buying some while selling everything else!

The Nikkei index down over 680 points !!! This is a HARA KIRI time!!!

NIKKEI DOWN 638 POINTS TO 14676 FOR LOSS SO FAR OF -4.2 PERCENT!!!!
Nippons buying gold... tomorrow begins BLACK CHRISTMAS IN WALL STREET!

...Now where did I put those bankruptcy forms...?

-738.9 -4.83%

When does the average citizen realize his money is no longer in his bank? Is there any news coming out of Tokyo?

http://www.familyjeweler.com

As the world peacefully slumbers, a FINANCIAL TSUNAMI is whelling up in TOKIO!!! The Nikkei is now DOWN 736 points to 14579 --- DOWN SO FAR TODAY -4.8 PERCENT ---- and the unsuspecting world continues to sleep... Morning becomes electra............

When does the average citizen realize his money is no longer in his bank? Is there any news coming out of Tokyo? How come this site slows down whenever something big is happening?

Steve

http://www.familyjeweler.com

When does the average citizen realize his money is no longer in his bank? Is there any news coming out of Tokyo? How come this site slows down whenever something big is happening?

Steve

http://www.familyjeweler.com

Can you buy Nasdaq puts? If so where and what price would you advise?

These truly are interesting times.

In the immortal words of a certain Millenium Falcon jockey:

"I got a BBBAAADDD feeling about this!"

Weelll, 140 90% halves and a couple of ounces of the yellow stuff is better than NOTHIN'...!

Sunday December 21, 10:49 pm Eastern Time

Tokyo Nikkei down by 3 pct on bank lending worries

TOKYO, Dec 22 ( Reuters ) - The Tokyo stock market's benchmark tumbled by more than three percent in early afternoon trade on Monday amid worries that tightened bank lending could lead to more corporate bankruptcies, brokers said.

The worries, triggered by the failure last week of foodstuffs trading house Toshoku Ltd ( 8034.T ) , also heightened concern over Japanese banks' financial health, brokers said.

At 0342 GMT, the 225-share Nikkei average was down 638.17 points or 4.17 percent at 14,676.72.

Nikkei March futures were ask-only at 14,620 against Friday's close of 15,240.

I'm buying everything you sell and thanking you for the bargain price.

Merry Christmas And Peace on earth to all around the world and especially all at Kitco and the group that makes me Mad "The Bulls" and Happy "The Bears".Hope everyone enjoys this season with family and loved ones and forgets about gambling for at Least a few weeks.Happy Trails---- away to see the Spirit of Christmas.

s&p futures -6.50

all overseas indices getting slammed--------

gold up, silver up-------------------------------

us equities have been insulated from the asian contagion------


looks like the hong kong chicken flu flew into wall street
with a good dose chlymidia pssitticosis......it's not fatal,
just permanent..........

I show silver flat and gold down 5 cents, where are you getting your figures from?

vertigo: BTW, where are you getting your quotes from??? down 5 cents. I thought gold only moves in a minimum of 10 cent increments?

Can anyone E-mail me with suggested web sites to follow Canadian Stocks, close to real time Asian markets, and gold call options. I would greatly appreciate it. My E-mail is air@2air-inc.com Thank you.

Twas the weekend before X-Mas,and all through the land,

Not a stock was going up,even with a plunge team hand.

The LGB's and Karlitas and Heppers and all,

Were cowering in angst,awaiting Puetz's next great call.

Down Nikkie,Down Hang Seng,Down Futsie,Down Dow,

Where will it end,this great X-Mas fall.

On your doorstep,in your backyard,in your face paperboys,

The Gold bull is snorting,WE all hear the noise.

On Gold!On Silver!On Donner!On Blitzen!

It's X-Mas On Wall Street,but somthings gone missin.

As the new day is dawning,with many in flight,

A Merry Christmas to the Goldbugs,

And to all a goodnight.

From the Kitco site.

ftse -3%
cac -2.5%
russia-5.5%

s&p -7.0

time to pay the piper, he pipes from afar....
to me lemmings, to me all.......

Twas the weekend before X-Mas,and all through the land,

Not a stock was going up,even with a plunge team hand.

The LGB's and Karlitas and Heppers and all,

Were cowering in angst,awaiting Puetz's next great call.

Down Nikkie,Down Hang Seng,Down Futsie,Down Dow,

Where will it end,this great X-Mas fall.

On your doorstep,in your backyard,in your face paperboys,

The Gold bull is snorting,WE all hear the noise.

On Gold!On Silver!On Donner!On Blitzen!

It's X-Mas On Wall Street,but somthings gone missin.

As the new day is dawning,with many in flight,

A Merry Christmas to the Goldbugs,

And to all a goodnight.

Humble request for a reference to a site that shows cash price charting like Kitco, or better, for currencies...are there any such around?

Thanks very, very much!

Robby

vertigo---

live feed from bloomberg cable tv

G'nite all.....Feb.Gold up .70 @ 291.80

Humble request for a reference to a site that shows cash price charting like Kitco, or better, for currencies...are there any such around?

Thanks very, very much!

Robby

Which web-site are you looking at?

DEJ: I also appreciate those who sold me the dirt cheap Feb gold calls. Looking for 1000% gain in a couple of days. Unfortunately, I bought my S&P puts a week too late but still figure to make 1000% before Jan ( Dec? ) is out.

Looking for 325 gold in a few weeks and 760-785 S&P on the first leg down ( 650-700 on final drop )

Warning: don't buy until you see a five, as in 5000, on the Dow.

Adam Smith ( 1723 - 1790 ) Scottish philosopher and economist. The author of "The Wealth of Nations" he believed that if government left the marketplace to its own devices, an "invisible hand" would guarantee that the results would benefit the populace.

Voltaire ( 1694 - 1778 ) "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him"

Jeremy Bentham ( 1748 - 1832 ) "The greatest happiness of the greatest number is the foundation of morals and legislation"

Jean Jacques Rousseau ( 1712 - 1778 ) "Man was born free, and everywhere he is in chains."

Immanuel Kant ( 1724 - 1804 ) "Happiness is not an ideal of reason but of imagination"

Georg Hegel ( 1770 - 1831 ) " What experience and history teach us is this - that people and governments have never learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it"

Karl Marx ( 1818 - 1883 ) " Religion is the opium of the people "

Bertrand Russell ( 1872 - 1970 ) "it is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true"

Thomas Hobbes ( 1588 - 1679 ) English materialist and empiricist, one of the founders of modern political philosophy. In the "Leviathan", Hobbes argued that because men are selfish by nature, a powerful absolute ruler is necessary. In a "social contract" men agree to give up many personal liberties and accept such rule.

I guess they were not notified by Japan that tonight was to be a down night. I wonder if New York has been told.