Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:00 - ID#30116)
Information Standard?
Isn't that where you go skiing downhill while playing 'touch football'? Works fine until that pine tree jumps out at you... ( Bad taste joke for the day. I'm sick and tired of hearing about the Kennedys! Who else could do something that stupid. If you did the same thing, you'd be thrown off the ski slopes.... )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:02 - ID#228128)
Shorts covered?
RJ: your comment that most of the shorts have covered flys in the face of what we have all been hearing about massive amounts of gold loans and hedge fund short positions. Are you saying thats all done now?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:03 - ID#30116)
Time warp!
Lost in Kitco cyber time shift............ I'm sure it'll make more sense tomorrow morning....

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:05 - ID#288156)
Dis-Information and NO Standard...
Discussion & Clarification needed?

I wonder if we do not do ourselves a disservice when we fail to distinguish between the data stream ( that which appears on every Reuters trading monitor in 60 seconds ) and information ( data which has been filtered through a trading algorithm--subjected to analysis, evaluation and a decision matrix ) .

We seem to accept, out-of-hand IMHO, every Information Standard quote/shot that comes across the bows. It is my contention that what makes the market is a bushel of trading algorithms, each of which attempts to spin the data stream ( straw--flax ) into Rumpelstiltskins gold.

Information is, I think, value-added data. As for an Information Standard, there are as many as there are proprietary trading algorithms--that is to say, there is no "Standard" at all.

Dave in CO
(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:09 - ID#215211)
Skiing is a rich man's way to die I guess. Or Natalie Wood falling off a yacht. A lot classier than a goldbug like me getting run over walking to the welfare office. By the way I own a little bit of the late, great Consolidated Nevada.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:09 - ID#255151)

Thanks aurator! In Indanapolis there is a, how should I say, less "reputable" establishment called Brad's GOLD Place. I hear tell you can "tuck" Federal Reserve Notes into skimpy bikinis. I must investigate this for the insight it may provide for my fellow Kitcoites on GOLD. No, no, you need not thank me. Just happy to be of service.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:11 - ID#255284)
Songs, Wiata, Dirges & threnodies, all is censorship....
Panda & others.

You might find it odd that New Zealand music has, to my knowlege, been censored twice in recent history.
Crowded House, some likely lads from Te Awamutu ( "T.A" to the locals ) sang a wonderful song about the hardships endured by the first settlers to New Zealand during the half year it took from foul old England to the Land of Milk and Honey. Their song "6 months in a leaky boat." was released at the time of the Falklands war, and, in great Secret Service tradition was banned, and never got air time in the UK, although at the time, Crowded house had been in the Charts for ages, and were long after this dirty little war.
The other song by Shona Laing, in the fashion of the great Joni Mitchell, Shona Laing has penned some of the most poignant songs ever written by a NZer. Her song "I'm glad I'm not a Kennedy" has never been played in the US, to my knowledge.

The first casualty of war is truth. The last casualty of peace is ....

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:15 - ID#252150)
Good news for hard core gold bugs
A fellow by the name of Green was on PBS business news this evening. When Paul Kangas reminded him of his au recos, he stated that he went to the Betty Ford Clinic & was successfully treated for his addiction. Maybe a good contrary indicator.

Feeling a little mellow tonight ( after a few micro brews & some very nice California Cabernet Sauvignon ) & thought I would post something that will put our quest for money & security in perspective... For my Kitco friends, including Disney.

"We cannot put off living until we are ready. The most salient characteristic of life is it's coerciveness: it's always urgent 'here & now' without any possible postponement. Life is fired at us point blank".

-Jose Ortega y Gasset.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:17 - ID#255284)
The World Of Gold Today
Was that Timothy Green?

Cos if it was, I hope you were taking notes//

Bart Kitner (Kitco)
(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:20 - ID#25867)
Y2K Glitches & Gold
To CJS: Thanks for the effort on your timely and effective solution to our changing of the year oversight.

What happened here may be seen as a small sample dress rehearsal for the real Y2K, but the problem would have been fixed first thing in the morning had our offices been opened. I think that'll be the typical situation for the vast majority of Y2K glitches; short-lived minor irritation but hardly armageddon.

I bet a lot of computer techies are going to be carrying around beepers on the Y2K new year's eve. I hope that amongst themselves they can choose a "designated programmer".

With respect to gold and Y2K I would probably consider this investment strategy: IF the gold price begins a dramatic climb correlating with the year 2000 media reports that are bound to increase exponentially as the countdown changes from weeks to days, then short the metal at the very end of Dec 1999. Definitely protect yourself with an appropriate stop loss , but the reasoning has been proven in the past.

Several weeks before the gulf war broke out gold went from $370 to over $400 on the uncertainty that there may be an actual war. It dropped over $20 on the first day of the news that the war had actually begun. There was no more uncertainty. With the Y2K problem the day that the uncertainty will vanish is almost as predictible as when the year 2000 will arrive.

I encourage anyone to re-post these URLs so that they appear at least once in each time slot until Jan 5, when our programmer should save everyone the trouble: ( allows you to view all of 1998, but not post )

OR ( Courtesy of CJS - allows you to post as well )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:23 - ID#252150)
Dave in co
If you did'nt have your pockets so full of gold eagles & maple leafs you'd be able to dodge those cars on the way to the welfare office.

Dave in CO
(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:30 - ID#215211)
Wish I would've bought coins instead of Cons. NV. and a few others. Where's Gloomy Gus these days? Hope he didn't get Kervorkianed.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:33 - ID#255151)

Bart--Happy 1998 and thanks for everything. Your 00:20 post on Y2K was excellent. I agree that at some point in the next two years there will be worry over Y2K, which will boost Gold. I personally think Y2K is a huge problem, but who really knows? I think we do agree that now is a good time to be buying. And those who do, will be very well rewarded. Best to all here!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:36 - ID#252150)
Aurator re: Green
He is a grey/white haired gentleman who spoke with an english accent. I'd had several beers & did'nt take any notes but, I'm pretty sure I rememeber 2 of his recos: Ascend & Lsi logic. Seems that Lucent has made an offer for Ascend & Nortel may start a bidding was. Unbelievably Ascend is around 25 & Lucent offered 35, but they feel that they are worth 40.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:41 - ID#252150)
Great job with this site. Montreal is still the #1 city in Canada for night life & possibly in all of N. America

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:42 - ID#288156)
If your sufficiently 'galvanized' by this FASCINATING subject...
Here is a short sort-of-book-review thingy by Anthony J. Pennings
re Walter Wriston's "The Twilight of Sovereignity", wherein he
( Wriston ) coined the unfortunate phrase...

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:48 - ID#374211)
@ Netiquette, Characters for Cyberspace?
As some have mentioned on this erudite ( I had to look it up ) forum,
we sometimes misunderstand the tone of said Cyberspeak.
I thought it might be useful if we could come up with some
universal Cybercharacters to denote some sort of Cybertone.

When Gold moves up perhaps we could use ( *+* )

When referring to your better half ( *;* )

When namecalling ( *{* )

When referring to Rosie the robot or computer ( *!* )

When Gold is down ( *^* )

When unable to understand some posters ( *?* )

I'm sure that there are many more I missed, just thought I might
have a little fun ,before bedtime ( *|* )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:50 - ID#255284)
Gold and stuff
James, James, Hold the ladder steady, sounds like our Timmy. Anyone else remember what he said and would care to post
Timothy Green first wrote
The World of Gold Today in 1968, It has gone through several editions and a couple of changes of name. most recently new edition last year. Essential reading.

Bart Giday, looks like we didn't need a commando raid to pull the plug on your computers. You can lead a programmer to code, but you can't make him think.

Saved by the Brits again.....


(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:53 - ID#57232)
Disinformation/information? e-dollars, or paper dollars?
All: Marcus' most recent work on Vronsky's site has got me thinking --

We have been making the distinction between "paper" money and "hard" money. Actually there are three separate types of money: paper money that we still use most of the time for small transactions, gold, and the electronic ( plastic ) money that our goverments want us all to use.

So there are three types of money:

electronic money

paper money

gold/ ( or hard money ) .

Now, there is yet another problem when we talk about inflation and deflation. Are we referring to the paper dollar, or the electronic dollar? For example -- does M2 or M3 really mean anything if we are talking about electronic money? We are reasonably certain that there are rules to be followed with the explansion/contraction of the paper money supply, but where are the rules to be followed for electronic money? What keeps some enterprising central banker from contracting/expanding the electronic money at will?

My suspicion is that with the right kind of computer system, the electronic money could be dynamically controlled, and it is probably happening right now! In reality the US dollar is probably almost entirely electronic, and not paper any more.

The implications of this are that this is a "boon" for a competent central banker such as AG. But -- with the access to a high performance sporty model of money control such as this, the responsibility is very great. It frightens me to imagine what could happen if a less competent individual was at the helm of our money supply.

Also -- it frightens me to think just how far our central bankers could go with a high performance dollar supply -- uncharted territory, where the driver could fall off a cliff!

I recall reading several articles that stated that the US government could not control the price of the dollar in the open market -- this probably puts an upper limit on just how expandible/contractible the dollar money supply is - right now. It would be interesting to see if anyone knows how the e-money rules are maintained in the computers. Something that important should be traceable to the financial equivalent of the "National Bureau of Standands". Perhaps ANOTHER was closer to the mark than we thought -- just replace "dollar" with "e-dollar" in his posts.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 00:55 - ID#255151)

SDR--I remember Walter Wriston back in the early '80's on Wall Street Week. I believe he was Chairman of the Board at Citicorp? He spoke of "information" being the new currency. John Disney's post about "disinformation" really puts this idea in perspective. Information, like Gold and Paper, can be manipulated to further an agenda.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 01:16 - ID#374211)
@ CNN Breaking News
CNN has just reported at 1:17 am that 2 rocket propelled grenades
were launched into UN Headquaters in Iraq. NO Injuries reported.
This is the 2nd such attack in past month.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 01:16 - ID#288156)
Auric, yes! When Wriston was at Citicorp, during the frenetic recycling of the
petro-dollars, at a board meeting someone expressed a little
angst about the credit worthiness of the LDCs ( as they were then
called ) and Wriston said, "Sovereign nations don't go broke!", which
showed, if nothing else, an astonishing dearth of historical

JTF: You've been missed! And pop back with your usual good, sound thoughts and speculations!
Happy New Year! The very best to you and yours in the coming year.
And now, G'night.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 01:24 - ID#255151)
Inflation, Deflation, Gold, and the Information Highway

JTF--Good points @ 00:53. Greenspan's term ends in August 1999. My guess is that after 12 years, he will not have a fourth term as Federal Reserve Chairman. That adds another uncertainty that the world financial markets will have to deal with.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 01:32 - ID#398105)
Toward an International Central Bank... George Soros: Interesting read


"The Alchemy of Finance": George Soros, 1987, 1994. Chapters 18 & 19.

"The creation of an International Central Bank does not constitute a permanent solution. Indeed,the very idea that it constitutes a permanent solution carries with it the seeds of the next crisis" - page 344.

In outlining his general views, Mr Soros focused upon exchange rates, international debt, and oil. He discusses the requirement to stabilise the relative values of the major currencies AND all others, if inflation and deflation excesses are to be avoided on a world scale. GOLD has served as a stabiliser throughout history and "IT MAY PLAY THAT ROLE AGAIN IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER" - Page 329 para 2. ( Certainly not on the derivative/futures market ) .

According to Mr Soros, " An International Currency........would be based upon a buffer stock scheme for oil.........the unit of account would be based upon oil..........the price of oil would be

(Sat Jan 03 1998 01:34 - ID#57232)
G'Nite all - downunder and upover, be it Oct 3, or Jan 3!
I'm getting temporally disoriented posting from a Jan 3 Kitco mirror site, and seeing my posts in Oct 3! Tommorrow I guess we will move to Oct 4. Now --- if we could only look 3 months into the future and see what gold was doing -- but I guess that's too much to ask of this temporal discontinuity!

All: Please beware another gold bear cycle -- if the equity markets do tank, gold will be fair game again! Good thing that silver seems to be out of the limelight in such matters.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 01:36 - ID#398105)
Toward an International Central Bank... George Soros: Interesting read


"The Alchemy of Finance": George Soros, 1987, 1994. Chapters 18 & 19.

"The creation of an International Central Bank does not constitute a permanent solution. Indeed,the very idea that it constitutes a permanent solution carries with it the seeds of the next crisis" - page 344.

In outlining his general views, Mr Soros focused upon exchange rates, international debt, and oil. He discusses the requirement to stabilise the relative values of the major currencies AND all others, if inflation and deflation excesses are to be avoided on a world scale. GOLD has served as a stabiliser throughout history and "IT MAY PLAY THAT ROLE AGAIN IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER" - Page 329 para 2. ( Certainly not on the derivative/futures market ) . According to Mr Soros, " An International Currency........would be based upon a buffer stock scheme for oil.........the unit of account would be based upon oil..........the price of oil would be kept sta

(Sat Jan 03 1998 01:39 - ID#398105)
Toward an International Central Bank... George Soros: Interesting read


"The Alchemy of Finance": George Soros, 1987, 1994. Chapters 18 & 19.

"The creation of an International Central Bank does not constitute a permanent solution. Indeed,the very idea that it constitutes a permanent solution carries with it the seeds of the next crisis" - page 344. In outlining his general views, Mr Soros focused upon exchange rates, international debt, and oil. He discusses the requirement to stabilise the relative values of the major currencies AND all others, if inflation and deflation excesses are to be avoided on a world scale. GOLD has served as a stabiliser throughout history and "IT MAY PLAY THAT ROLE AGAIN IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER" - Page 329 para 2. ( Certainly not on the derivative/futures market ) . According to Mr Soros, " An International Currency...would be based upon a buffer stock scheme for oil..the unit of account would be based upon oil...the price of oil would be kept stable by the buffer stock sch

(Sat Jan 03 1998 01:40 - ID#398105)
Toward an International Central Bank... George Soros: Interesting read
"The Alchemy of Finance": George Soros, 1987, 1994. Chapters 18 & 19.
"The creation of an International Central Bank does not constitute a permanent solution. Indeed,the very idea that it constitutes a permanent solution carries with it the seeds of the next crisis" - page 344. In outlining his general views, Mr Soros focused upon exchange rates, international debt, and oil. He discusses the requirement to stabilise the relative values of the major currencies AND all others, if inflation and deflation excesses are to be avoided on a world scale. GOLD has served as a stabiliser throughout history and "IT MAY PLAY THAT ROLE AGAIN IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER" - Page 329 para 2. ( Certainly not on the derivative/futures market ) . According to Mr Soros, " An International Currency...would be based upon a buffer stock scheme for oil..the unit of account would be based upon oil...the price of oil would be kept stable by the buffer stock scheme although...its value may gradually appreciate if and when demand outstrips supply......In other words, national currencies would gradually depreciate in terms of the international currency" - Page 338. So, pray, what is the CURRENT nature of this International Currency - GOLD? Mr Soros, in a discussion concerning Japan and the US, states..." The Japanese can...continue to produce more than they consume. There is nothing to stop them from becoming the premier economic power in the world as long as they are willing to save and to export capital. But the rise of Japan need not be accompanied by the fall of the United States; with the help of an INTERNATIONAL CURRENCY, two leading economic powers could coexist. So, pray, what is the CURRENT AND FUTURE nature of this International Currency - GOLD? In the short to medium term, I hope it is gold. In the medium to long term "whatever", but "whatever" will most likely be backed by gold!!
Big oil and gold potential in Aussie, untouched!!!!!!!!!!
Aye, Haggis - sorry about the format.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 01:42 - ID#93199)
Fidelitry Select Gold Chart
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )

Both funds today moved to a new high for the current rally.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 01:55 - ID#398105)
Tzabeck and Netiquette


Surely we should adopt "standards" developed by Members of the Australian Parliament...............................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.............etc

Aye, Haggis

(Sat Jan 03 1998 02:14 - ID#255284)
XAU plummets...
JTF Agree, and in another correction to irrational exuberance, a general equities collapse, Gold stocks will get massacred.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 02:20 - ID#374211)
@ Haggis, The End of IMF? Nah....
Since you have been interested in G. Soros, I thought you might like
His unofficial Hompage at
He has had good and bad calls, Information or Disinformation?
I have a feeling that his proposal for another "system" for international
lending, is something like a trial baloon he et al have floated, because
of a movement that is growing especially in the US NOT to fund IMF
with taxpayers $ in order to fund upcoming promised "loans" to S.E. Asia.
I hear some Republicans including J.Kemp will be raising this issue
in order to have some sort of public debate of merits for said "loans"
and I suppose that some "alternative" loans would have to be
quickly arranged should upcoming scenerio be the case.
But don't count the IMF out, remember they still have all that GOLD!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 02:36 - ID#255284)
'member the village idiot? Who is smarter than the old V. Vi. ????

if you've read my Date: Fri Jan 02 1998 21:29 now compare it with this, and tell me the difference.

This is from but it could be any number of market mavens.

WHAT TO EXPECT NOW. The long term trend is up and we have the next
major upside target on the March S&P's at 1150 area. However before 1150 is
hit we may see 935 to 915 area hit first. For very short term the market may
bounce to 985 before the decline begins to the 935 - 915 area. Seasonality is
favorable to Christmas this week and the Fibonacci relationships from Friday's
low of 935 also area favorable. According to Ed Moore's book "Rhythm of the
Market", when the market retraces 61.8% of the previous leg down than the
tide has turned from down to up. From the December 17 top of 986.50 to
December 19 low of 935 area ( a 51.50 S&P point decline ) the March S&P's
retraced to 968.00 today which is a 61.8% retracement of the decline implying
the tide has turned from down to up for short term. The up-side resistance areas
are the 970 level and if the market rallies through that than the previous high at
985.50 level should be hit. On Friday's decline a 1440 down-tick reading was
recorded which is bullish and which also coincided with a bullish candlestick
pattern called a "Hammer". Therefore we can expect this rally to continue to
possibly 985.00. On Today's close a -452 down-tick reading was recorded.
Down-tick readings exceeding -300 on the close are also bullish and predict the
rally should continue. Christmas is Thursday of this week and we expect the
volume to become lighter as the week progresses. We will wait and see how the
statistics are tomorrow.


(Sat Jan 03 1998 02:44 - ID#255151)
Time Warp

Just clicked on "full text" and was taken back to original October 3, 1997 Kitco posts!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 03:04 - ID#255284)
The sweet smell of competition, Freedom, Liberty,.Novus Orda Seculum
Auric: know what? think I'm gonna go get lost in a time warp...
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be

Doing the time warp again,.

What about this "Wet" T-shirt competition then, Oh valiant heralds of the brave new gold world?

Got anything to add to Fri Jan 02 1998 23:16? Crusty's entry is the only one so far and will romp home several lengths ahead of the rest of the field........


(Sat Jan 03 1998 03:09 - ID#255151)
Wet T-Shirt?!

aurator--Fill me in on the Wet T Shirt contest. I must have missed that in the last few days. Sounds like a hell of an idea!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 03:31 - ID#255284)
All Jolly Good Clean Fun--- "THE GOLDEN GAUNTLET"
Auric I crashed Urrk

Here is "Wet" T-Shirt Competition

First Entry

please post challenge "THE GOLDEN GAUNTLET" each brand new time interval


Lurker 700__A
(Sat Jan 03 1998 03:44 - ID#319326)
refer & Lurker 777 @Rapture and Revelation
refer, you said: "As for the rapture, It is only 144,000 people that are to be spare the 7 years of tribulations, This represents 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Isreal."

In Rev 7:1-8, there are 144,000 chosen servants, sealed of the living God, from mixed 12 tribes of current Isreal. These are servants who will stay and suffer on earth, but can escape from all harm.
But about Rapture, in my understanding, God elected gentiles more!

Because God foreknew Isreal's sin since foundation of the world, so in the last days, He will bless gentile and send His beloved children to live among gentiles. These are the true Isrealites but not appearing Isrealites ( Rom 9:3-6 ) , and will be protected by powerful gentile governments ( but how? a mystery of God ) . These are the true 144,000 beloved children of God which will enjoy the first Rapture ( Rev 14:1-5 ) . They will permantly live in the house of God after the Rapture, first in Heaven and later on heavenly earth. These are the most glorious children of God, better than those 144,000 chosen servants which still shall suffer as servant of sin ( John 8:33-36 ) .
So, there are total 288,000 elected by God. 144,000 from Middle east, a terrible battle field in the last day. Another 144,000 pure and clean in deeds chosen from gentile countries ( Rev 7:9-17 ) . So, there are also 24 chosen elders ( representing 24 tribes, 12,000 per tribe ) sit before God in Heaven day and night ( Rev 4:4 ) .

In ( Isa 40:2 ) : "Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she has received of the Lord's hand DOUBLE for all her sins." ( Meaning, due to Isreal's sins, God will give new Jerusalem, our heavenly mother ( Gala 4:26 ) , another 144,000 more precious children from gentile contries. )
Also, in ( Zec 9:11-12 ) : "As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant ...even today do I declare I will render DOUBLE unto thee." ( Meaning, God's covenant will be with 288,000 chosen people through both old and new covenants. )

The relations between these two groups of 144,000 people, from Isreal and gentiles, are described in many places:
The easy one is in ( Rom 11:11-32 ) , especially, in verse 25-26, a mystery saying that Isreal will blindly think they will be saved because they thought they can be the most pure and clean in God's eye, but not saved until they are surprised when find out those gentiles are simply SINNER fashioned by Jesus like unto His glorious body ( Phil 3:21 ) .
Other relations are described in Joel 2, Isa 4:2-4, 6:12, 28:25-29, 62:12, 37:32, 35:10, 29:22-23. Micah 4:7. Matt 13:52. John 10:16....

Because this is not relating to gold, so please reply me at

Lurker 777 ( refer ) ID#317247:
"As a former Heathen I want to thank you for expressing what I believe but cannot articulate. I am a new Christian and believe the Bible is the word of God. I hope through my studies I am able to somehow serve as a true voice for our father in heaven. God bless you!"

Hmmm.... 777 does mean something to me. So, I choose 700 for myself. God bless you too!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 03:47 - ID#398105) more quotation

"Yet the international financial system cannot function without a stable currency as its foundation. This is the critical lesson that emerges from the Crash of 1987......We desperately need an international currency system that is not based upon the DOLLAR. Yet the YEN is not yet ready to serve as the international reserve currency - partly because the Japanese financial markets are not sufficiently open, and partly because the rest of the world is not ready to accept Japanese hegemony. The ideal solution would be a genuine INTERNATIONAL BANK. International lending for balance of payments purposes would then be designated in the INTERNATIONAL CURRENCY, and the value of the currency would be tied to GOLD or to a basket of commodities, ensuring that debts would be repaid in full. Only when the DOLLAR loses its previlaged status will the United States cease to flood the world with DOLLARS. The sooner we make the transition, the better the chances of arresting the economic decline of the United States......Unfortunately, we are not yet ready to learn the central lesson of the 1987 Crash.......we can expect a period of continuing turmoil in financial markets, although the focus of attention may shift from the stock market to the currency market and the bond market and, eventually, to the market for precious metals"
Page 359, "The Alchemy of Finance": 1987, 1994: George Soros.

Any comments? Remember his Rothchild connection. Rothchild forms a banking and gold cartel.

Aye, Haggis

(Sat Jan 03 1998 03:58 - ID#340325)
Thanks to that 777 dude...
Thanks to Lurker777 for the tip on the Gold call options. I put a bid for $300 for a Dec. 98 340 CALL and it got filled today in New York, Comex.

I have been buying up Gold call options and now hold positions in every month that is avalible in the COMEX. I got in a bit early, so my strike prices suck and they expire worhtless. But I have good feeling about a option with ONE FULL YEAR of time and a strike price just over $40 out-of-money futures.

Gold has brought some peace of mind back to me, concerning the investing and personal finance angle.

So thanks again, This is my first post on this chat line. I have been monitoring for some time...


(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:05 - ID#255284)
my soap box has a hole in it...
LURKER 700 or any number, you bring your kristun revelation crap here and I promise I will shitt on your headdds untill i am pulled off this site. I do not want to here hearr any kristun shitarse revelation crap on this site. GOLD has an L, notice the L, " L." that's L

L for leather

get my drift

666 + 666 + 666

village idiots all,

gimme reason, not bollux revelations numerology


sweet~ness and light, am I

(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:05 - ID#255151)
Wet T-Shirt
aurator--"Watch Gold Bounce"

(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:06 - ID#255284)
This Competition is Hotting up

John Disney__A
(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:09 - ID#24140)
Grace under pressure
To all

I admire the way that Vronsky ( who performs a service

for all of use ) does not respond whenever the critical

and tasteless cat calls of those ( who perform NO service

for anyone ) are heard. I believe that displays

grace and class.

Keep up the good work, mi amigo, ignore the meaningless

yelps of the jackals. Those who should shine your shoes

are snapping at your heels.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:18 - ID#398105)
John Disney and Vronsky


I agree. Hell of a job setting up Gold Eagle.

Aye, Haggis

(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:21 - ID#255284)
Noone knows the trouble I see

Well you know that's true, of course, Monsieur Vronsky suffers the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, and, with admirable stoicism, resists the jibes of.. well, even old salty but have a look at our quiet pommie genius' home page real soon

OK. Chris, you have the floor whenever you wish..Please don't keep us waiting too long.


(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:23 - ID#398105)
Soros and gold - encore..................
George Soros
21 September, 1995

"The globalization of financial markets which we are currently witnessing
reminds me strongly of the end of the 19th century when we had a
similarly free flow of capital from one center to another. When I
compare the two periods I find that the system which prevailed at the
turn of the last century was much more stable than the one which
prevails today. Specifically, I can identify two elements of stability
which are missing today: one is a universal gold standard, whereas today
we have currency blocks which float and rub against each other like
continental plates; the other is the existence of an imperial power,
namely Great Britain, which had a vested interest in preserving the system because it derived great financial benefit from it. Nevertheless, the system broke down in the first world war. How much greater is the
prospect of a breakdown now, in the absence of the two stabilizing
factors I mentioned!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:24 - ID#255284)
Chris = Colin
That's why they call me salty

(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:26 - ID#398105)
To all Americans...........


Why did Tricky Dicky Nixon divorce the Dollar and Gold in 1971 ( 73? ) . Did it have anything to do with increased military expenditure ralted to the Vietman War?
Comments please!

Aye, Haggis

(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:27 - ID#398105)
To all Americans...........


Why did Tricky Dicky Nixon divorce the Dollar and Gold in 1971 ( 73? ) . Did it have anything to do with increased military expenditure related to the Vietnam War?
Comments please!

Aye, Haggis

(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:34 - ID#255284)
Haggis it's a grand thing, this Soros as a Goldbug. Who could not be? What rational person can possibly believe in a paper

"I promise to pay nothing"?

Sometimes I am such a simple man.

A couple of decades ago now, a friend of mine bought as scrap an old wooden building on the West Coast of the South Island of NZ that was used last century for Gold Assaying. He razed it to the ground, then sifted the embers for the several dozen ounces of gold it produced. What happened to the paper and the wood in that inferno?

Gold. by all means... Gold

aurophile, good to see you posting again..


(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:42 - ID#398105)

"We have currency blocks which float and rub against each other like
continental plates..........".

Aye, Plate Tectonic Theory and gold mineralisation. A useful summary type publication is "World Gold Deposits" by J J Bache: ISBN 0 946536 08 2.

There are other more detailed and lengthy publications. If any one is interested I can forward details: email -

Aye, Haggis

(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:48 - ID#398105)
aurator..........tricks of the trade


Your mate should have crushed and processed the concrete pad of the building! Then he would have been a "very" rich man.

It takes all sorts, and given that leopards can change spots - what is the difference between a leopard and a carnelian?

Aye, Haggis

(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:51 - ID#255284)
now, multiply 9 by 7, the number of days in a week, divide by 40 and add 3.
Meaningful numbers...

Vronsky, did Ike Newt say that before the South Sea Bubble? Cos I rather think your quote should be dated 1720. after he done his doughN ( mullah, bucks, ) on the casino that was the English Stock Exchange then, and of course, bears no resemblance to the "Loan" of the Brave's NYSE in 1998.


(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:55 - ID#403267)
L700, The doubling referred to in Isa. 40:2 is not a mathmatical or numerical doubling. Instead it is as you take a sheet of paper ( parchment ) and bring the bottom to the top "doubling" it and therefore covering its contents. This is what was done with a bill of bankruptcy ( etc. ) in ancient Israel that was posted at the gates when it was satisfied and the judgement cleared. Hence the doubling = forgiveness as in the context, not judgement or multiplication. Suggest to pursue further go to SI, look me up and email me, the name remains the same.
Aurator, you post a lot lately and that is great, I am hoping you "double" ( forgive ) this my occasional indiscretion here:- ) )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 04:57 - ID#255284)
Burning Down the House with Gasoline.............
Haggis, Old man, I suppose another canny scot invented concrete, but I fancy the shack was built after this time, it was built ?1860? a lean to in the nether worlds of the colonies, old chap...

I recall reading, later, that Mocatta & Goldsmitt in London used to fire the wooden floor of their assay room every 15 years or so for the same reason.


(Sat Jan 03 1998 05:01 - ID#255284)
Roebear: I shall double and get back to you. After all I play heaps of backgamon, doubling comes natural.


(Sat Jan 03 1998 05:52 - ID#398105)
See you later.......................

(Sat Jan 03 1998 06:16 - ID#30238)
" Koreans, give us your gold"
Private gold assets in South Korea are estimated at $US20 billion.
-President-elect Kim Dae-jung,calls on the nation to share the burden of the crisis. So, what does the Korea Housing Bank do? - get all the good citizens to donate GOLD,not paper, to help pay the country's bills.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 07:38 - ID#237164)
this is a test

(Sat Jan 03 1998 07:44 - ID#93232)
@those that witness....from the Rev. Jerry Neardewell.....
From the book of Bart, chapter 6, verse 9: "And after the sore money changers had left the temple, they stopped by the Golden Bull and swapped stories of better times...and it was good."
That which we "worship" here is Gold. Kindly refrain from misspelling the object of our goes something like this..."Gold is Love" and "In Gold We Trust". Amen.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 08:04 - ID#426220)
NEW YEARS MUSINGS: More Tears Than Joy

Southeast Asian Cuurencies Begin 1998 SHARPLY DOWN!

Maylasian, Indonesian & Thailand Currencies Plummeting... AGAIN

John Kutyn is undoubtedly one of last years most brilliant and perceptive analysts on the Domino Effect sweeping through Southeast Asia. His insightful take on currency chaos and stock market turmoil paint a grim picture of what the new year holds for the countries of that area... indeed what the ramifications are for the rest of the world. Following are a few of his random thoughts on the region. Additionally, he shares his opinion of the precarious condition of the Japanese Banking System, and what we might brace ourselves for in 1998.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 08:09 - ID#93232)
@Dr. V..........
Kutyn is not one brain cell short of brilliant. Absolutely, flawless deductive powers...thanks for rounding him up and "showcasing" him.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 08:10 - ID#333131)
Currency being expanded @ 18% rate over last 3 months
As of Dec. 31, currency in circulation increased to 481.584 B, an increase of 8.627% for the year and up from 460.741 three months earlier. ( An annual rate of increase over 18% over last 3 months. ) The monetary base increased 4 B to 496.8 B as expected. Is there any question that the Fed is fighting deflationary prospects? Maybe it is too little and too late, but I don't count them out.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 08:33 - ID#78116)
Nixon and the gold window

Nixon had no choice in August 1971 to close the convertability of US currency to gold and allow the currency to float. We simply didnt have enough gold to convert all the dollars that had gone overseas to finance our trade deficits

The French were threatening to demand gold for their dollars, the US dollar was under pressure, much as fixed Asian currencies have been this past year and for much the same reason. The US, at the time, was pursuing a very bad mix of fiscal and monetary policies. Government deficits were ballooning. While small compared to the reagan deficits they were still quite large as as share of GDP and larger than anything seen since WWII. With an election coming up in 1972, a tax increase was out of the question.

The Fed, under Nixon crony Arthur Burns, was running a very loose monetary policy, geared to helping the president win re-election in 1972. This also put more dollars into circulation, making convertability more difficult.

Vietnam was at its peak, but spending on it was beginning to come down. Nixon had already announced Vietnamization of the war, American soldiers were beginning to come home in small numbers.

Social spending was beginning to climb. While Lyndon Johnson gets credit ( or is blamed ) for start much of the social welfare state, it was under Nixon that funding for many of these programs soared.

So to net it out, the US went off the gold standard as a result of bad economic policy, both fiscal and monetary. Some of the excessive spending was due to Nam but a lot of it was due to the funding of LBJ's 'Great Society' programs. That coupled with a very loose monetary policy created excess demand in the US that could only be met by increasing imports and the US trade deficit. The increase in the trade deficit was financed by the export of dollars, mostly to Europe, which in turn, put the dollar in play where it has been ever since.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 08:39 - ID#427357)

Flight Capital Fuels 15-Year-Old Bull Market

Although Rick Ackermans article was published in a major US newspaper a couple of weeks old, it nevertheless provides some interesting insights to the US market and world problems, which undoubtedly will have an impact in 1998.

With Asia's financial markets festering seemingly beyond remedy, Japan mired in near-depression, and the locomotive economy of South Korea in danger of seizing, why has Wall Street barely flinched?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 08:47 - ID#364147)
Great post and I suppose now they'll ( the media ) make that FOOL into a saint too!!!! Kennedys= The most over-rated family in the history of the U.S.of A....JFK Jr suks~~~~~~~~~just like his ole man did!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 08:55 - ID#364147)
@ the deck
Away to finish the deck~~~~~~~~~~

(Sat Jan 03 1998 09:32 - ID#93232)
@ el Karlito99.....
You have become a fine ingredient in the delicate recipe of this forum...please continue and thanks.

Mike Sheller
(Sat Jan 03 1998 09:35 - ID#347447)
Government flows of new credit into military operations, wars, and social programs inevitably flow back to the general population. Aside from the technical fact that any credit created beyond specie to back it IS inflation itself, this kind of credit creation is especially inflationary as it goes into production of weapons and stuff that makes for fewer potential consumer goods and lots of equipment whose only purpose is ultimate destruction. But the money hires people and machines to produce all that stuff. The social programs inevitably represent a greater investment than fiscal payback. So you have more dollars buying less productivity useful to citizens, but at least the money flows into the society to stimulate activity and price increases for all the stuff being wasted, and everything else. Commodity and gold prices go up. Savers and lenders lose out. In the current credit inflation, the recipients have been financial institutions which do not flow their dollars to the general public as broadly. Those in the broad "middle class" who gain, as in stockmarket investments, do so only on paper. When the bubble bursts, those gains will evaporate, rather than flow into society as demand dollars for stuff. The created dollars will evaporate as well. Commodities and gold remain unaffected. Seems as if that's where we are now.

Mike Sheller
(Sat Jan 03 1998 09:39 - ID#347447)
You might say that gold is God, with a little "L" ( Hell ) thrown in.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 09:41 - ID#288295)
US public debt skyrockets! (S. Korean bailout?)

Just discovered the US national debt postings on Colin Seymour's financial pages........Debt jumped $US 43 billion IN JUST ONE DAY from 12/30 to 12/31 !! ( S.Korean bailout? )

Debt figures posted at

(Sat Jan 03 1998 09:48 - ID#339274)
France was already converting Dollars for gold in the latter part
of the sixties.France pursued an independent military ( Le Frappe ) and foreign policy.Nixon instituted quasi price controls with high interest rates,that was doomed to fail.Have a prosperous New Year you all.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 09:52 - ID#35767)
The death of M. Kennedy was unfortuanate and we all pray for the family. I think his death will probably help the Kennedys politically.
I like Rep Patrick Kennedy's policies/ He is pro labor /anti NAFTA and Gatt as well asa anti abortion. The latter is unlike his dad. He has already announced for Gephardt in 2000. This is what we need a progressive on economic policies and a conservative on social issues. This is the type of progressivism that EJ Dionne envisions eventually dominating America's political future in his fine book "They Only Look Dead". We can only hope he is right!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 09:52 - ID#93232)
@ and it goes somethin' like this....a' one ana two ana three ana....
Down at the Golden Bull, we see the words of others
Share our cares, maybe throw out what troubles
Down at the Bull, we can only visualize the faces
That come each day to fill their respectful places.
Down at the Bull...

(Sat Jan 03 1998 10:04 - ID#93232)
@M. Sheller....Whoa!
By Jove, I believe you have it!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 10:06 - ID#329157)
Reading earlier posts during the Year 1998 bug
These URLs should be useful until Jan 5, when Kitco's programmer should have the "Y1.998K bug" sorted:
( CJS mirror of the Kitco web page with patches for January 1998 and earlier searching - allows you to post too )
( allows you to view all of 1998, but not post )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 10:17 - ID#93232)
@CJS1.....Now that's scary! and impressive.....
Don't waste your time explaining it to my numb skull...but how in the world did you do that? Dang.

Pacific Northwest Dave
(Sat Jan 03 1998 10:24 - ID#223187)
John Kutyn hits the nail on the head-everybody must read his Gold Digest Article!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 10:24 - ID#426220)
YEAR END MARKET REVIEW Current Fundamentals

Dr. Thomas Drake generously shares with the GOLD-EAGLE readership a synopsis of his erudite and comprehensive YEAR END MARKET REVIEW.

It is indeed a perceptive and incisive analysis... must reading for the serious market student and professional. Also, very illuminating are the two 23-year charts of GOLD and the US Dollar.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 10:35 - ID#426220)

THE GOLD-EAGLE monthly spotlight for insightful market commentary and analysis BEAMS AGAIN on John Kutyn for his analysis FINANCIAL COLLAPSE: THE DEATH SPIRAL. With exceptionally clear vision he cuts to the chase in the WHY of Korean Banking and Corporation failures. Further he demonstrates how the Domino Effect will cause the teetering Japanese and Chinese Banking Systems to fall.

To review this insightful prophetic treatise of the Asian Domino Effect and its inevitable consequences, go the following Internet location, and once there CLICK on John Kutyns DECEMBER plaque:

(Sat Jan 03 1998 10:35 - ID#29082)
From Barron's
Gold between 280 and 350???? I am attempting to append a Barron's page without pasting the whole thing here.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 10:36 - ID#227238)
Aurator: See Studio R at 7:44. I think he has 2 fine entries for the wet "T" contest. To wit: "Gold is love" and "In gold we trust".

(Sat Jan 03 1998 10:37 - ID#34883)
@223 : Fri Jan 02 1998 00:11

(Sat Jan 03 1998 10:49 - ID#227238)
ROR: It's nice to see that your veneration of America's bogus royalty has not diminished. The loss of the young man's life is tragic. But, while the Kennedy's continue to enjoy total immunity to the law's of man, the same cannot be said for the laws of physics.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:10 - ID#426220)



THIS IS MONUMENTAL NEWS! It is testament to the well-grounded suspicions of many experts that there will be many GOLD LOAN DEFAULTS, forcing Central Banks and large commercial banks to EAT the Gold Loans extended.

Please recall ING is the large international group which picked up Barings Bank's marbles when it failed a couple or so years ago due to non-traditional banking operations and a rogue trader!!! This was a 200 year-old English bank.

Is this the first crack in the dike which WILL cause the deluge run on GOLD, as frantic international bankers and Central Bankers begin to cover their very exposed financial BUTTS? Gold Loans/Leasing is considered by many professional observers as NOT CONSERVATIVE NOR TRADITIONAL BANKING OPERATIONS.

This begs - NO DEMANDS - the crucial questions:


This is transcendental news which eventually may spark a sea-change in the heretofore traditional investment paradigm. See original announcement.

The Red Baron provides a searching and poignant account of reported Central Banks' Unorthodox Gold Operations GOLD PRICE CONTROL BY CENTRAL BANKS -

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:10 - ID#227311)
WELL...Quit a typical response...some of common others of intellect
and background.
As I sit here composing this post & tasting a good bottle of Johannesburg Riesling I am both amused and impressed by the response. I made a sinmple comment on Hugo's Post & the Astrological puerility of GE. I reply to the response as follows.
TOLERANT1: TAGORES prayer "give me the strength to raise my mind high above daily trifles" for " The morning will surely come, the darkness will vanish, and THY voice pour down in GOLDEN streams, breaking through the sky". FORGIVEN FOOL?? Na Sir, perhaps you, not I. One day the arrogant who consider all other opinion to be only of lowly sots shell see the error of their way. I cast aspersions only upon those who should know better. Nor would I insult other great mystics such as Jesus, Zoroaster, Mohammed, St.Augustine of Hippo, St. Anselm, St.Thomas Aquinas, and of course Jalal-ud-din-Rumi ect.etc...
Regards: EH

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:12 - ID#237164)
the famous kitco 98 bug and copies of Jan 1, 2, 1998 stuff ...
January 1, 2, 1998 postings have been copied to

but they have not been indexed.


Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:14 - ID#227311)
REFER. Dead Sea scrolls..Any fool can write on parchment and
put it in a cave. Nomstradomes, had a problem with absinthe no doubt. I can only say that Hugo'page and verse is useless to one that does not accept the basic premise of the book! RELIGION is a belief of the heart not the head. As far as reading the book, why would one waste his time only to be more confused then when he started?

Lan Man
(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:16 - ID#31766)
@Another One Bytes the Dust
12/16/97 Rea Gold announces Bankruptcy proceedings and shutdown of Bissett Gold Mine.

Prior to receiving the directors' and officers' resignations, the company attempted to conclude a workout with its principle tender at Bissett, NM ROTHSCHILDS and SONS LTD. but was unable to reach agreement. Bissett is indebted to Rothschild in the approximate amount of US$23 million. The indebtedness is guaranteed by Rea Gold Corp and secured by charges over the assets of Bissett and Rea Gold.

There you have it, why buy the physical when you can get the whole mine for a song and dance?

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:17 - ID#227311)
DENTON, make my point very well. Why indeed would the
Fathers of the church read and let facts get in the way of Dogma? Your story is quite good, guess if God did not use gold for pavers Vonsky would not have a forum.

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:20 - ID#227311)
LURKER777...OH how nice, a convert! Be careful sir, remember,,
Its not the 9 truths a preacher or broker will tell you that is the problem, its the one lye that will killya. Fear of retribution is the cornerstone of religion. Read "why I am a pagan" in The importance of living, Lin Yetang. Regards: EH

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:22 - ID#227311)
LGB2...IF ONLY I could articulate so well..BRAVO BRAVO.

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:25 - ID#227311)
REFER: Your post of 15:22. Are you kidding or what??
We are in an age of the Bible being dismissed?? There are more Bible thumping wackcos out there then ever before, picking the pockets of those who can not afford it, using the old standard " you take care of me now and I will take care of you in the hereafter" Regards: EH

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:27 - ID#227311)
MIRO: No one is objecting to opinion on religious belief. It is
Indeed a sad comment that people are willing to die and kill for the goodness of their religion. Religion is NOT based on fact, but rather upon the intrinsic whispering of our heart of hearts. Regards, EH

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:30 - ID#288155)
Financial chaos---where there is a small dram of solace

A global reserve currency backed by gold, the SDR

1. it need not be created out-of-thin air:
2. it exists,
3. it was created to replace the dollar as the reserve currency;
4. it had a defined relationship with gold;
5. it is not tied to any one global political block or hegemony;
6. the neural distribution pathways already exist;
7. it is held by central banks as a reserve currency

The positioning battle is now being waged; the Pricers are under heavy fire and suffering moderate losses, the Valuers are positioning landing forces for an all out assault on the Credibility Front when the whether conditions are favorable for establishing a successful beach-head. Yes!

Forget what the SDR has been allowed to become, and think of what it was meant to be.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:38 - ID#301318)
Thanks for your Barrons post. A bit of reality for a change

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:38 - ID#348286)
Great article on Gold in Saturday Globe&Mail page B18

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:45 - ID#348286)
@Great article on Gold in Saturday Globe&Mail page B18 - by Dunnery Best
"Gold is currently priced at about $71.60 an ounce in 1972 dollars!"
How much cheaper do you want it to be?

"If rising prices cause the banks to call Gold loans, a powerful squeeze could result".
"The short-squeeze trap has been set"

To all the doubters, go ahead and short it baby.........

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:45 - ID#225127)
MoReGoLd: Do you have a URL?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:47 - ID#301318)
Conduct Guidelines for the Kitco Discussion Groups


Don't use profanities or foul language.
Don't make any insulting remarks or statements that provoke other
Don't post any unrelated comments that are likely to arouse a strong
emotional response.
Don't advertise. If you have something to sell use our Classified
Ads section. It's free.
Don't partiicipate as an investor if your interest is really in
promoting stocks. Identify yourself and use the Classified Ads

What to do when somebody breaks the "DONT" rules

Absolutely ignore the remarks. No response is the best response. If the
abuse continues notify the system administrator and they will handle it.

If anyone indicates that they felt offended by comments you may have
made, grant an immediate automatic apology. The issue will die right
there if you dont attempt to have them justify their feelings.

General Discussion Group Guidelines

When you join the group, monitor the messages for a few days to get a
feel for what common questions are asked, and what topics are deemed
off-limits. This is commonly referred to as lurking. When you feel
comfortable with the group, then start posting.

Follow any and all guidelines that the administrator has posted; they
establish the local "netiquette" standards for her/his list.

Keep in mind that some discussion groups or Usenet groups have members
from many countries. Don't assume that they will understand a
reference to TV, movies, pop culture, or current events in your country.
If you must use the reference, please explain it. Don't assume that they

understand geographical references that are local or national.

Don't join a group just to post inflammatory messages - this upsets most
system administrators and you could lose access to the net ( "mail
bombing" ) .

Keep your questions and comments relevant to the focus of the discussion

If another person posts a comment or question that is off the subject,
do NOT reply to the group and keep the off- subject conversation going

When someone posts an off-subject note, and someone else criticizes that
posting, you should NOT submit a gratuitous note saying "well, I
liked it and lots of people probably did as well and you guys ought to
lighten up and not tell us to stick to the subject".

When quoting another person, edit out whatever isn't directly applicable
to your reply. Take the time to edit any quotations down to the minimum
necessary to provide context for your reply. Nobody likes reading a long
message in quotes for the third or fourth time, only to be followed by a

one line response: "Yeah, me too."

Use discretion when copying a long mail message to the group. It's
preferable to reference a site by copying its http:// address.

Resist the temptation to "flame" others in the group. Remember that
these discussions are "public" and meant for constructive exchanges.
Treat the others on the group as you would want them to treat you.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:49 - ID#288155)
An Idonesian speaks--Take a glance at the face of political chaos


"In Indonesia, the process of economic collapse that is under way
strikes at the core of the Suharto regime's legitimacy. For many
years, Indonesian elites and their foreign backers have argued that
lack of freedom and authoritarianism were necessary prices to pay for
economic development. The prices paid by Indonesians during the last
thirty years were high. Exploitation, oppression and exclusion from
political participation were prevalent. In addition, natural resources
have been depleted and the environment seriously damaged. Wealth has
been distributed in an extremely unequal manner, and traditional
social structures destroyed.

In this time of crisis in Indonesia, I, one of the Suharto regime's
most hated persons, have urged the US administration to provide
strategic leadership and vision to help rescue the economies of
Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and South Korea. Of all leaders in the
region, the one that deserves most support today is South Korea's
President-elect Kim Dae-jung as he and his people are the embodiment
of the struggle for freedom and democracy in the Asia-Pacific."

As austerity measures taken by governments bite, there is greater
potential for social and political unrest in several countries, as
frustration builds not only against foreigners and the IMF but their
own governments as well. And instability in Indonesia is not in
anyone's interest in the region.

Spud Master
(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:50 - ID#273112)
@Emerald Heights
You wrote, derisively with respect to religion:

" you take care of me now and I will take care of you in the hereafter" Regards: EH

Most amusing. Sounds just like Bill Clinton & the Democratic Party with all their social programs. Giggle. Like Social Security, which I shall never see a penny from. "But have FAITH! BELIEVE! Deduct from your paycheck and HALLELUYAH!"

and so I drive to work in an old Honda, eat at Taco Bell, and defer gratification while Bill Clinton, Rubin and other high priests of the Religion of Government drive limos around, eat at the best restaurants and despoil the female of the species. just believe.

just believe in the Party.

F*** all politicians. I will not be a slave to debt-paper. I am buying gold and declaring independance from the Washington/New York politico-financial confidence men/women who lust to control our lives.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:51 - ID#333131)
SDRer, Give us more, please.
Am I correct in interpreting "pricers" as those who wish to continue to price SDR's in terms of a basket of currencies and "Valuers" as those who wish to value SRD's as a give amount of gold? If so, who are the generals you have been able to identify on either side of the coming battle and what are their armaments?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:52 - ID#93232)
ABIDE BY RULE #1....thanks for posting it, Flash.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:53 - ID#237164)
national debt
as of Dec 31, 1997 it was 5.502 billion and as of Dec 31, 1996 it was
5.323 ... so the debt grew by 179 billion.

If the deficit last year was 28 billion, then we must have
accrued something that is 151 billion of value.

For what asset accumulation did we go 179 billion into further debt?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:54 - ID#287207)
This is transcendental news which eventually may spark a sea-change
Second news MONUMENT---Miramar reprotedly will not be able to produce sufficient gold to met hedging commitments. I'll go see if I can locate the second swell of the SeaChange.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 11:57 - ID#348286)
@Globe & Mail
powmain: Just searched their site and they did not post this article....

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:02 - ID#344308)

emerald heights@1120

---a lie is a lie, and lye soap cannot wash this away!

----readin--&--ritin---------or maybe fitin-------

ebonics aside.....what about the bastardazation of the WRITTEN word?

-----------gee whiz......i ain't lyeing!!---

gimme that bar of lie soap?-------------aaaawwwwwwwkkkkkkkk ----hkcffy

ok, ready.......a b c d e f g...

more written ebonics after practicing....where's lgbito? he can help..


(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:02 - ID#348286)
@Hedging the Hog
Selby: Just one more piece in the puzzle, they ( miners ) are selling more than they can ever produce.
Give me more of those 200 million BRE-X ounces....... HaHaHa

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:03 - ID#243250)
FLASH RE: post
THANK YOU The rules of this board are what help to make it the exceptional page that it is; so lets respect those rules under which we have been requested to operate. ...regards

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:04 - ID#227238)
SDRer: One important element is missing from your otherwise fine list. That is, unless the currency unit is FREELY convertible to gold, ON DEMAND, it will lack the discipline required to maintain stability. If it is convertible only between banks in international settlement, it would help some but the real discipline will be derived only from billions of people voting each day in the only way they can ...... with their money.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:07 - ID#287207)
Second Swell Lost at Sea
Can not locate the Miramar article which I read yesterday and which stated that production would be less than forward selling commitments of Miramar. They have lots of money and could buy enough gold to meet committments--we know where that leads eh guys.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:07 - ID#254269)
@ SDRer_A; A question; a few weeks ago, you had a lot of different

posts here rethe SDR system. Do you remember when you made those posts so that I might be able to look them up ? TIA.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:09 - ID#254269)
Re; Vronsky's 10.35 and the John Kutyn article; I just finished reading

this article and am wondering how a government "monetizes" debt. Can someone please give me a simple answer ? TIA

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:10 - ID#348286)
@Y2K Doubters
Y2K ALERT: "Canada's largest employers should make public how much they are spending on their computer systems to deal with the year 2000, the founder of a new foundation to encourage a national approach to the millenium computer problem says.
Joe Boivin, a former millenium adviser for the CIBC, said in Ottawa yesterday companies that don't start spending now are putting profit, jobs and the country's economic health at risk.
He said he wants to hear from Canada's largest companies by the end of January so he can make the numbers public in hopes of influencing
investor's decisions."

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:13 - ID#93232)
You is one bad to da' bone english teacher. I ain't lyin' neither. Do I have to do anymore homework? aaawwwwkkkk! speeeewwww! lye me no mo'.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:15 - ID#301318)
Ok, which one of you did it?
Johnson Matthey said victim of pilfer scheme
NEW YORK -- Platinum valued at between $2.5 million and $16 million could have been pilfered from Johnson Matthey Inc.'s West Whiteland, Pa., plant over a five-year period, according to local police.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:16 - ID#254269)
@ Flash; Not me, I'm in Texas.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:19 - ID#364147)
The DECK is DONE----what
Just in time for brownies-NFL playoffs ( Go PATS ) ~~~~~~~~~

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:19 - ID#288155)
You are Absolutely Correct...
There are a number of 'details' which need to be carved in granite!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:21 - ID#237164)
Bart ... you have a year 2000 trap
Bart, I think you have done a terrific job with your site. I miss
it when I can't get on.

Your page request requires a 2 digit year. Hence, you have a
year 2000 trap built into your code. I noticed it when I built
a robot to fetch your old data. Didn't say anything to you
when I first noticed it ... it slipped my mind too! But this
morning when I fetched old Jan 1, 1998 data, I could not, until
I asked your site for Jan 1, 98 data. That's a gotch waiting to
happen on Jan 1, 2000.

Again, thanks for the site. If there is any way I can help with
mirroring ( to keep down the traffic on your machine ) I would be
pleased to do so.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:22 - ID#288155)
Avalon, no--sorry, I don't remember!
I'll email you my notes, if you like?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:23 - ID#254269)
@ Lan Man; Re your 11.16, where is the Bisset gold mine ?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:24 - ID#93232)
I'm entitled to a lawyer....I have no further comment at this time. Oh, my aching back.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:26 - ID#301318)
@Avalon (in Texas?)
It's usually the one that deny's it first thats guilty.
Say brother, can you spare a dime? ( that grin thing )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:28 - ID#222167)
I just read an interesting article entitled "Deep-Cover Radical for Capitalism?" on page 37 of the November 1997 issue of "Liberty" ( Dept. L62, P.O. Box 1181, Port Townsend, WA 98368 ) . The Article is about Alan Greenspan, and how Ayn Rand influenced in the 1950's. Greenspan was a saxophone player before that. He was a member of Rand's "Collective" -- attending philosophical discussions at Rand's house.

I had believed that Greenspan was a traitor of Rand's ( an capitalism ) for joining the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is all about central-planning and government intervention -- the opposite of free-market capitalism.

But the article suggested otherwise. Greenspan has said that Ayn Rand is the greatest person ever to live on earth. The article touched on a subject debated at the "Collective" meetings: Is it OK to work for the government and still be a capitalist?

The article said that Rand came to the conclusion that it was OK in some circumstances. The most interesting part of the article is was Greenspan said in Senate testimony to questions asked by Paul Sarbanes in 1995.

Here are Greenspans answers:

1 ) All economic regulations should be sunsetted.
2 ) The Federal Reserve should be terminated.
3 ) The US should go back to a gold standard.

Sarbanes couldn't believe his ears. Greenspan went on to say that he is the only member of the FOMC that believes these things, therefore, he said it does no good to pursue them any further. So Greenspan still believes in Ayn Rand, he acts differently because he's sees no chance of changing things now.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:30 - ID#288155)
Why the Liquidity Solution wont work this time....

The concept of the Lender of Last Resort is deeply ingrained in the financial consciousness: the belief that, if sufficient liquidity is supplied, not too much, too soon--nor too little, too late the systems systemic malfunctions will mend and allow the system to continue to function.

This time, it IS different.

Reflection on the history of fiat currencies in the western industrialized world distills into a crystal truism: money ( i.e., fiat money specifically ) is BELIEF--and additionally-- it is the UNCONDITIONAL belief in strangers. One takes note of the fact that ( again in history ) this is an anomaly:

the languages of the world are rich with pejorative words that identify the stranger, e.g.,  barbarians, described by one etymologist as those who are not we. Strangers.

For the G7 worlds, the past sixty years have given citizenry no reason to question the efficacy of fiat currencies. The song was Gershwins, Summertime, and the living is easy; Summertime, and the living is good...
That-- fifty years on-- the demographics have changed, that the fall of the wall brought into the labor market hungry, educated competition, that summertime eventually must give way to autumn, the G7 nations behind closed doors decry and in front of the cameras deny.

Meanwhile, in the non- G7 world, governments who have taken more and given less, whilst promising nothing--primarily because no promise would be believed-- are finding the citizenrys belief in the paper miracle a fragile balloon, beautiful, great fun, but prey to every vagrant current of capricious economic rumor-winds, to say nothing of monetary pinpiricks.
Their belief in government is less robust, their commitment to the paper issued by those governments less reliable. It is here, in what the G7/financial world are pleased to call the emerging markets that the fiat currency Death Watch has been announced, for it is here that the belief-balloon upon which every fiat currency is predicated has been pricked.

It is less that a bank fails but more that, in retrieving ones funds, one fails to recover the stored labor one had set aside; it is less that ones single unit of currency is 40% devalued but more that ones life, onesr being, ones worth has been slashed in half.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:33 - ID#341214)
Ted/Kennedy (hee hee)
Ted: I'm in complete agreement that the Kennedy family is a pox on us all but lets remember that even they have their good moments, except for Ted Kennedy, that is. JFK was instrumental in saving the lives of fellow sailors during WWII. I think he also handled the Cuban missle crisis effectively possibly saving us from nuclear war at the time. There have also been reports on this board, that you have no doubt seen, that he was trying to do away with the Fed ( a real good idea, BTW ) and may have paid for it with his life.


(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:34 - ID#93232)
@er....wait just a minute TED!.....
Now get your butt back out there and spray that protective coating on that vulnerable wood...protect your investment...we'll let you know how the game turns out. Pop....fizzzzz...Bud Lite.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:36 - ID#254269)
@ SDRer_A; My email is Thanks

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:38 - ID#254269)
@ Flash; actually it was a nondenial denial (now I'm confused ); hey, what

are these funny gold things in my garage ?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:41 - ID#401349)
Earl -- your 10:36
Bravo! It astounds me that an educated people can hold the Kennedy Klan in such reverence. They are a family of cynical politicians. They believe in the divine right of kings ( the powerful ) and they endear the masses to them with their government hand outs ( socialistic programs ) . The objective is to secure votes to stay in power. It's a classic.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:42 - ID#426220)

Avalon: You may obtain information about the term MONETIZING or anyother term or subject by doing the following. GOLD-EAGLE is an encyclopedia of financial info, so go to the Homewpage listed below. Once there scroll down to the bottom of the Hot News box ( left side of page ) . The CLICK on "SEARCH GOLD-EAGLE" botton. On next page type MONETIZING in the little window. Up will pop up 7-8 essays using the term. Just CLICK away and enjoy and be enlightened:

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:45 - ID#287207)
"Miramar Con mine just laid off 130 workers in Yellowknife one third
of the worlk force and are cutting their production in half. They will be
producing less gold then they have sold forward and the company has
more cash in the bank then it would take to take them over."

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:47 - ID#227311)
SPED MASTER: My post was not derisive, simply stating a fact of
American history. I do not find it amusing. I drive a 1990 Honda with 220K miles & eat at Taco Bell and like you buying gold. From your post it is obvious you have little more then dislike for our government and its current leaders. I do not know if buying gold will give you the freedom you want,may depend on what $gold is one year from now. If like the Gold gurus say its going to 8000/ounce then you will be driving in the limos and eating at the best restaurants. I dont think you will be despoiling though. I hope for the sake of all those depending on it that SS will be aroung for a while, for unlike you and me most people can not indulge their selves in buying gold. Regards: EH

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:48 - ID#287207)
Ted: Missing your weather report from the land the ISP's forgot. Warm here. Should be about 20 and covered with snow but its about 40 and the lawn is still growing. El nino is my kind of hot air--although it is coming from the usual direction.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:49 - ID#26669)
Hacking Kitco to get long comments today. This one worked for me!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 12:56 - ID#254269)
@ vronsky ; Thanks, it's amazing how much info is on this site !

(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:01 - ID#26669)
Credit Card98 bug
Last night my wife called a toll free credit card ( name of the card was deleted, because I can't confirm the truth of what whe was told. ) number to ask about a sudden glitch in our credit. She found out that at the time of her call there were over 400 people on hold and the phone representative told her that they'd had a new year's bug, possibly a virus, which had erased a whole lot of people's credit. Hmmm. Please take with a grain of salt. This was third hand information and I have no way of confirming or denying its veracity.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:03 - ID#371247)
Albuquerque weather report
For those of you who crave chili and want to drive or fly to Albuquerque for some great Mexican food the weather is cool with a hint of moisture. I just returned from a three mile walk with my daughter sweating like a work mule to which I bear a strong resemblance. I'm looking for silver and gold to get moving early in the year and keep it up for a couple of years on an on and off basis. That's my gut talking. Wait, no, that was just indigestion talking.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:06 - ID#426220)

Noted ORACLE OF HONG KONG, Milhouse, provides yet another astute and insightful critique of the Nippon Financial Malaise. Milhouse is decidedly bearish, and feels the rapidly falling Nikkei is going to get a lot worse before it gets any better!

In Japan, the economic recession continues relentlessly. Furthermore, major falls in the stock market appear very likely in 1998, wiping out whatever capital remains in the troubled Japanese institutions.

I believe there is a greater chance that the Japanese people will start accumulating GOLD to protect their substantial savings...

Milhouses clear-sighted and perceptive report may be found at:

Spud Master
(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:14 - ID#273112)
@Emurald Heights
What?! After so many deci-years of defered gratification, of scrupulous saving, of buying groceries at Food Lion, of exchanging worthless Federal Reserve "Notes" for precious gold - you tell me this! - that Jane Seymore will not leave her husband and throw herself at my rather large feet and profess her undying love - while Bill Clinton impotently slinks away, looking for his dog Checkers? Tell me it ain't so!

The well-deserved backhand you received was for your patently one-sided diatribe against what YOU consider to be religion ( Judeo-Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc. ) & its frauds - while ignoring the TRULY fraudulent religions of Statism, Government-Worship and Humanism. Of which the Clintons, Rubin, Greenspan, and all politicians are the would-be high priests.

No liberal ever has difficulty decrying "religions" and their historical abuses.

Just as no liberal is ever honest enough to admit that Statism/Government Worship ( or is Whoreship? ) is a religion.

Now, let you & LGB, EB and Karlito99 drop down on your knees and pray to the gods of Fed, while High Priest Greenspan sprinkles IMF holy-water and choirboys Bill and Hillary give out vouchers for the promised "Good Life"... "When the taxes in the offering plate jingle, the soul to Social Benefits Heaven springles!"

Nota Mala: Hmm. You *really* believe you or I will ever get back a cent we had taken from us for the last 20 - 40 years in the name of Social Security? Gimme a hundred "Hail Rubins" and 330 "Mother Hillary's", and no supper tonight either. Off to your room, young Emerald.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:20 - ID#26669)
Mole re Keynes and Austrian economists: Isn't it wonderful what the net holds? I've learned more about economics in the last 6 months than I learned in the 20+ years since I shared the apartment with the economist grad student. I've even found a link to a college macroeconomics course on Inference Find!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:24 - ID#426220)

Avalon: You may obtain information about the term MONETIZING or any other term or subject by doing the following. GOLD-EAGLE is an encyclopedia of financial info, so go to the Homepage listed below. Once there scroll down to the bottom of the Hot News box ( left side of page ) . The CLICK on "SEARCH GOLD-EAGLE" button. On next page type MONETIZING in the little window. Up will pop up 7-8 essays using the term. Just CLICK away and enjoy and be

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:25 - ID#227311)
Cherokee.. The only difference between a lye and a lie are
those who belittle them selves with minutiae. Regards EH

Spud Master
(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:25 - ID#273112)
@Emu-rolled Heights again...
You wrote:

"I hope for the sake of all those depending on it that SS will be aroung for a while, for unlike you and me most people can not indulge their selves in buying gold."

It is exactly THAT defeatist attitude that will ensure the masses are burned. A 1/10 ounce gold Maple Leaf is $45, a Silver Eagle $8. Even "the poor" ( those making $40,000 a year these days ) can afford to buy that much once a month or week.

Notice, however, that the same sentiments you expressed above DO NOT hold when it comes to investing in a market Mutual Fund. The "poor masses" somehow "have" the same money for that. Hypocrite.

Come out of the closet, Emerald.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:27 - ID#264346)
Avalon (monetization)

Hey Avalon - the feds monetize the debt by buying back their own debt securities.

Initially, the Treasury sells debt obligations to finance the government's need for money. These are purchased by anyone who wants to hold them for the interest they pay. A good example is the well publicized Japanese holdings of US treasuries. Now the Japanese are selling these treasuries. To prevent a price collapse on these treasuries as the Japanese unload their holdings, the Fed actually buys them. When the Fed buys them, it is referred to as 'monetizing' the debt obligations of the US government. The Fed has purchased these treasuries with newly created money and now is holding the debt obligation. The new money is now in the system as the sellers collect on their sales. This obviously creates more cash to be injected into the system which is inflationary.

This whole process is how eventually the government will go broke and it's currency will become worthless. As the lender of last resort ( in this case the buyer of last resort ) , the Fed attempts to keep interest rates down and the system liquid. If this process continues, the Fed will end up buying all the US government debt and issue currency to cover it. Of course, the currency is backed by nothing, so it will eventually collapse. This is how a deflationary spiral starts and when confidence erodes, the people holding the soon to be worthless paper will attempt to retreive their paper and convert it to a hard asset. Loss of confidence, bank runs, social unrest are sure to follow.

Hope this helps.


(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:32 - ID#22956)
What have I missed?????
Can somebody post the site for reading back a couple of days?? My blessed 'puta kicked me out of Net'escape' and I didn't bookmark the page. I need to read all the intelligence for the last couple of days. Just in case I can't can anyone give me a synopsis?? ( grin ) Cherokanazibanzaikiboshi??!? Ted_head?? What have I missed??

GO CHIEFS!!!!!! Green Bay and CHIEFS in the stupor-bowl. F$^% the 49'ers!!!!

btw, did anyone catch my post Thursday regarding currencies vs. US$. Hmmmmmmmmm.....what happened. Well, let me tell you. US$ up 181 ( 1810$US per ) ticks since xmas eve!!!!! Who profited??!? Well, Eric did!!! oh my!! Do your homework and it will pay handsomely. That beautiful CONfederate dollar kicked some foreign ASS!!! It was one of my first trades going long dollar index and I feel FANTASTICULICIOUS!!!! yum, yum!! My only regret is the Mark got kicked because of it and Jan ( options ) Expiry is here.

Donald, I am holding this trade and I think we will make a new high this time. ( maybe ;- ) ) The other countries economies, etc. are, how can I say this?...less appealing to invest in right now?? I think momentum has shifted back to our shores and will stay there for sometime, including our indexes. This market ( dollar index ) is not overbought yet and will continue north for the time being. What else is there?? Gold? I think not....any comments 'The Don'??

What do you say now KIWI??!? Yahoo?? Oh sH!t??!? Damn YANKEES!!??!? Well, I still love you man. Do not bet against the US$ until these other countries get their acts together. Wily investors will do likewise and be laughing ALL the way to the bank. GO USA!!! GO USA!! GO USA!! ( i know this will ruffle some feathers ) ...... ( HUGE grin thing!! ) ......uh huh!

now it is time to go piss-off some New England Fans, eh Ted??!?



(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:36 - ID#35767)
If it were not for JFK you all would be paying your parents medical bills if they were broke instead of medicare. Hats off to JFK. The Kenedy's are also anti Gatt MAI and NAFTA. Wake up and realize who is fighting for America.

Teddy has proposed LOWERING the payroll TAX on SS. Bravo. It would be paid for by taking off the current income cap to which the tax applies. An excellent proposal which would help 99% of America.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:45 - ID#288295)
(KCTrader - debt monetization)

In addition - there's the HUGE contingent liability is the USG, in addition to the public debt.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:47 - ID#264346)

Interesting story about the bank. It is probably a year rollover problem similar to the one experienced here. When the service rep refered to people's credit history being lost, this probably refers to the fact that the database can no longer access the credit data because the base date could have been moved back a hundred years. Since you didn't have credit with this company a hundred years ago, your history is inaccessible to the computer. Similar to the problem here with being unable to access posts in the past, since the computer believes the last three months haven't happened yet. Dates are interesting things when combined with faulty software!

Of course, this is speculation, but it just goes to show you how much your life revolves around the electronic financial system. Now, imagine all these systems having similar problems all at once. The financial system will stop because nobody can be sure who owns or owes what. Probably time to dump these guys. It's gonna be interesting!


(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:52 - ID#288295)
Best Gold purchase?

I'm mostly a silver bug and need some gold advice - what do you guys think is the best method or vehicle to buy gold in now - numismatic coins? ( high end or low end? ) , bullion coins? ( Soverigns, Kruggerands, etc ) , Central Fund of Canada? What about the old gold confiscation laws - should I consider them when buying gold? Would appreciate any input you might have on this.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:56 - ID#288156)
Carl, your reasoning hammer always hits the nail on the head!

Pricers and Vaulers first came to my mind thinking of Oscar Wildes definition of a cynic: A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Then, it wed the two functions of money: a transactional medium of exchange ( Pricers ) and a storage of value ( Valuers ) .

Looking around, it became apparent the Pricers were in control, and money as a storage of value had become a stolen concept, buried deep in an unmarked grave.

As for the generals: weve done a little work on that, you and I. I started with the men who were present that night at Camp David when the dollars last link to gold was severed; the men who saw misery descending on the world.

My assumption was that they would work to establish a cadre of like-thinkers, who would be available when assault forces were needed.

Late for a brunch, have Run! BBL. Take care, my friend.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:56 - ID#257148)
They do it with Mirrors & High-Heels....
 go here

(Sat Jan 03 1998 13:57 - ID#264346)

I can't agree with you concerning the Kennedys. They are big government types with a huge interest in wealth redistribution ( read: collectivists ) . If you cannot see the damage done to this society by these types of welfare programs you might want to start reading the papers. I don't consider the situation we find ourselves in as being good. There is nothing good about a government that taxes away 50% of incomes and forces a fiat money system on it's citizens. It's simply stealing in the name of the common good. Read a little Ayn Rand for further clarification.


(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:05 - ID#264346)

I don't see the logic in rare coins. This market could become very illiquid in hard times. I've been buying eagles and junk silver. I figure the gold is good for large transactions and the 90%'s for small purchases. I also have purchased some 1 oz silver generics.


(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:06 - ID#93232)
@Battipaglia and Kudlow Securities of New York, L.L.C.
Studio.R, in his own mind...a creative genius, has just developed an absolutely smashing P.R./advertising slogan for his soon to be client...B&K Securities...Are you ready???? "WE SCREW ONE INVESTOR AT A TIME...UNLESS WE CAN SCREW TWO." What do you think? Truth in Advertising makes a comeback. It'll work I tell you.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:07 - ID#427357)

CNBC TV financial celebrity and national investment newsletter analyst shares his considered opinions about all the markets with us... his first rays of 1998 wisdom:

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:07 - ID#227311)
SPUD MASTER: Damn your good! Great post. FYI. I hold Satanism,
government & humanism with the same disdain as religion. I will not comment further on your sexual desirably. Yes, perhaps as you say the the poor can buy 1/10 ounce, but they prefer to eat and feed their families ( not the you do not ) If they did as you suggest for the past 10-15 years you know what their losses would be as well as I. As far as the stock market and mutuals are concerned I have never owned any now or in the past, and that cost me a lot in the past 5 years..just a bad decision on my part. The Hondo was a good one. Regards: EM

(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:08 - ID#22956)
Spuds, you ole Honda driving dog you!! Buy USA!!
I see that I am still 'put' in the same group with lgb and Karlito. You should not label people such. It is not nice and it shows ignorance. Although I do not mind being labeled with Karlito ( thanks Karlito for your well done posts, I learn from you ) I think lgb still has a few things to learn about people skills and keeping his bullshirt to a minimum.

Why are you sooooo bitter??!? Have you not taken advantage of the great bull run since '87?? Do you NOT have ANY money in the markets?? 401k, keogh, IRA's?? Whatever??!? C'mon man!!!! If you don't, how do you expect to retire with any money?? Inflation will tear you a new one if not. Do you save all your money under your mattress?? In your backyard?? w/o 'growing' it somehow?? I do not, and never have spouted how gold has been a shitty investment compared to stox ( although I could make an easy case for it but it would be beating the long dead horse ) . I like gold and I am a speculator AND an investor and I squeeze a buck out of these markets any way I can. If it means to short gold than so be it. I will be long gold when the time is right. You should be buying gold with both hands right now if that is what you believe in and Do not be bitter towards other peoples investment styles. I also think that you should be smart and follow trends until they reverse themselves and not be too contrary ( because it will surely be your demise, if it hasn't already ) . I like you dude. Your intelligence shines through in your posts. You contribute much to this site and I read all your posts with relish ( and mustard ) crack me up. But don't label me DUDE!! You DON'T KNOW ME!!!! I am NOT who you think I am. I am NOT lgb. I am ME!! EB!! A lowly lens grinder ( small biz owner-the meat and spuds of this country ) and commodities trader...............and a little more ;- ) ................ and you are my cyber friend.....ohmy! the games


thanks Auraciousness ;- ) .....spark me bra!!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:16 - ID#257148)
 ALL
Dopn't forget to enter the "Wet" T-Shirt Competition

That's right, folks, We all know that "Get Real, Get Gold" is the official goldbugs T-shirt. Get yours here
But what happened to all those wonderful, offbeat slogans, poetry and Bumper Sticker humour that didn't make to the official T-shirt?

Scratch your collective heads and post your anarchic aphorism NOW!

The competition disorganiser ( moi ) is hopeful that Clarity Resources or Mike Sheller will donate a free Get Real Get Gold T-shirt to the winner!

That's the "Wet" T-Shirt Competition--

You Gotta Be in To win


(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:17 - ID#287305)
Numismatics are speculative in nature. I liken them to futures or options with the exception that they are not paper based. I used to trade futures and options but the indicators started looking so bad that I cashed out.

I have allocated the same percentage of my nest egg to numismatics that I had allocated towards options and futures trading. In my mind this is a safer way to hold a speculative investment that has huge upside potential.

Most of the truly rare numismatic coins are trading at 20% of their highs when the market was at it's peak. I see a lot of comments on this forum about $2000 gold etc.

This may or may not come to pass. However, if we see so much as $500 gold my numismatics will easily appreciate 4X to 5X in value.

The real issue here is whether or not you believe in total meltdown. I think that no matter how bad it gets the moneyed people will still have money. Perhaps quite a bit less, but they will still seek out quality.

Numismatics are art. They are like paintings or expensive cars or anything else that has prestige connected with it. An early US coin in perfect condition creates an emotional impact on people.

Even when I show some of my numismatics to the most cynical paper worshipers, they often gasp at the perfection and beauty of what they are looking at. Very few people have seen proof coins in perfect condition. They are magnificent.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:27 - ID#315256)
@ Silverbaron
Amen and Kudo's. Numismatic coins such as "St. Gaudens", in premium brilliant uncirculated are beautiful coins. With the small premium they are currently trading at over Gold bullion, particularly when you look at how much higher historical premiums have been, in the late 80's and such, a small move in Gold's price could easily cause these coins to explode in value multiples of the percentage of Gold's move.

Yet you don't have the "100%" loss of futures and options, in fact downside potential at these premium levels is virtually nil, other than whatever Gold's downside potential may be.

I bought some "Saints" ( my only gold holdings ) when Gold was at $320, and they went UP in value even as Gold dropped to $281.50! They're getting harder to find, and selling like mad. Coin dealers can't keep them in stock.

A lot of premium brilliant mint state Silver U.S. coin is in the same boat. All kinds of upside potential on this bull market in Silver.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:29 - ID#315256)
@ EB "My Bullshirt"
Come now EB, what's wrong with my "Bull Shirt"? I've been a CHicago Bulls fan for a long time and the shirt fits me just fine. Why would I want to shrink it?

Dave in CO
(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:48 - ID#215211)
@EB - waiting for the next oil crisis in my 90 Geo Metro
You should be flattered with the comparison. LGB and Karl ( ito Marx ) have perfect investment records stretching back decades. If you don't believe them just wait a second and they will tell us again and again and ...

I made some money since 83 like every monkey with a Magic Marker could have done. My mistake was to diversify some of those profits into nat. resource stocks.

If I had found these Masters a couple of years ago they could have saved me with their fantastic ability to recite verbatim all the key phrases from CNBC's Market Wrap: "No inflation yesterday, today, and forever," "Dow 10000 in 2000," "It's different this time," etc. If only I'da knowed ( to paraphrase Dizzy Dean, 1935. )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:51 - ID#315256)
@ Inflow/Outflow Mutual fund controversy

(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:54 - ID#315256)
@ Inflow/Outflow Mutual fund controversy

(Sat Jan 03 1998 14:58 - ID#427357)

About the Author: In 1965 Joseph Miller became a member of the
Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was active in the exchange during the time Currency Futures and Interest Rate Futures were introduced by the Exchange, and served on the Board of Governors of the Exchange for ten years.

Much has been made of the downward plunge in gold prices during 1996 and 1997. Monetary officials as well as government officials around the world have advertised the fact and led the public at large to believe that this drop is an indication that fiat
megabyte money is "King of the Hill", that all is well with our
monetary system, and that we will all live happily ever after. It is the author's hope that THIS PAPER HAS DISPELLED THIS MYTH in the mind's of the people who read it.

Analyst Miller sees regent years IRRATIONAL EXUBERANCE in paper assets ( stocks & bonds ) as a new chapter for the classic work Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. He, like George Bernard Shaw, votes for GOLD:

"If you have to choose between trusting to the natural stability of gold and the natural stability and intelligence of the members of the government. And with due respect to these gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the capitalist system lasts, to vote for gold."

The Summary includes an extensive SUGGESTED READING LIST, his recommended Internet Gold Links, and other pertinent information sources:

(Sat Jan 03 1998 15:04 - ID#315256)
@DaveinCO, Spudmaster...........I'm as far from a "Socialist" as you can get
Hey, who you guy's callin Commie Pinko's now eh? Wasn't it one of you guy's who was talkin "red baiting" last week? I'm a long way from espousing the ideals of liberal left wing idealogues like president Hillary and their ilk.

Central planning is something that has been completely discredited, when it comes to economics and social engineering. With ONE major exception...and that's of course, an effective policy re control of the money supply ro allow for strong economic growth, while limiting inflation as mouch as possible. The FED has been brilliant in it's ability to pull this off , particularly in AG's era, when we've also had a good balance of power by ofsetting the executive brach with a Republican congress.

"Worship" at the feet of the Fed Govt.? Hardly, however, one should give credit where credit is due. The FED policy planners have done more to improve the human condition in each HOUR of tehir existance, than GoldBugs collectively would ever do in a lifetime.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 15:05 - ID#315256)
@DaveinCO, Spudmaster...........I'm as far from a "Socialist" as you can get
Hey, who you guy's callin Commie Pinko's now eh? Wasn't it one of you guy's who was talkin "red baiting" last week? I'm a long way from espousing the ideals of liberal left wing idealogues like president Hillary and their ilk.

Central planning is something that has been completely discredited, when it comes to economics and social engineering. With ONE major exception...and that's of course, an effective policy re control of the money supply ro allow for strong economic growth, while limiting inflation as mouch as possible. The FED has been brilliant in it's ability to pull this off , particularly in AG's era, when we've also had a good balance of power by ofsetting the executive brach with a Republican congress.

"Worship" at the feet of the Fed Govt.? Hardly, however, one should give credit where credit is due. The FED policy planners have done more to improve the human condition in each HOUR of tehir existance, than GoldBugs collectively would ever do in a lifetime.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 15:17 - ID#22956)
...........Short Skirts..............and...........Stinky Shirts...........
Well.......all is well in Three Rivers Stadium

.....and gold may rally slightly on the a.m. Monday..........this EBb and Flow will continue for a short while until it forms the TASTY pattern I have talked about. This pattern will give us ALL a sell signal and we should ALL then short gold to make $$$. As Glenn has said, this could be the last one ( maybe ) before that long lost Bull starts a decent charge. The 'powers' STILL want gold to wither and the price will wither. THIS IS NOT THE BOTTOM. Gold CAN go lower. Gold WILL go lower............ ( smile ) ...

lgb - At least 'wash' your stinks......... ( holding his nose ) ............... the Laundry Mat


Spud Master
(Sat Jan 03 1998 15:21 - ID#273112)
Eric, FYI, my Honda was assembled in the USA, using cheap USA labour. But it was designed in Japan. Welcome to the Third World. Instead I buy quality; I do not subsidize inferior engineering design & assembly - dictated by bloated, greedy, technologically inept Detroit "executives" who couldn't find their asses with either hand, a team of ladder-climbing yes-men/women, full colour PowerPointless veiwgraphs and a press conference led by Dan Rather.

When Detroit stops designing & building junk - I will buy American. Besides, don't you realize we live in a World Village? Outdated concepts like "nationalism" and "patriotism" - tsk, tsk. Off to the Hillary Clinton "It Takes a Village Idiot" Reeducation and Gold-tooth reclamation camp for you!

The only American car I would consider is the Saturn/GM EV-1 electric. It's a pity Detroit blundered that too by not offering an intermediary hybrid power-plant option. Idiots.

The next car I buy will likely be the Toyota Prius hybrid - that obtains 66/mpg or the Honda Accord LEV. I don't expect $1.04 gallon gasoline to last forever. Pity the 11 - 13/mpg SUV owners when gasoline inevitably goes to $5/gallon. Kyoto "save the world for yuppies" eco-gas taxes ... er ... I mean "voluntary investments".

Addendum: Emerald Heights, you can add Emma Thompson to the short list of women who may throw themselves at my exceedingly large feet. Who needs diving fins?

Post Script: Oh yes ... buy gold; it's the Patriotic Thing.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 15:28 - ID#333447)
placer gold Mike Sheller and Producer
how about emailing me about your placer gold.what sizes you are recovering from "frog hair" and up. i have some experience here that may be of some help. email is thanx, chas

Spud Master
(Sat Jan 03 1998 15:30 - ID#273112)
You attempted to write:

"The FED policy planners have done more to improve the human condition in each HOUR of tehir existance, than GoldBugs collectively would ever do in a lifetime. "

The gross manipulation of the people of the world by the various Central Banks, Fed included, probably have resulted in the unlimited misery now destroying the lives of many Thais, Malays, Indonesians, Philipinos and Japanese.

Be Proud. Stand tall. Join the few, the manipulative, the FED. Be all that you can be from the exploitation of the weak. All hail the FED!
Sieg Heil! Seig Heil! Seig Heil!

Run along, little remora LGB, its feeding time. Sip your Spumanti and nibble your Godiva chocos and avert your vision from the wrecked lives ushered in by world-wide paper manipulation.

"And LGB in London now asleep, shall count his manhood cheap...

(Sat Jan 03 1998 15:37 - ID#22956)
Hey Mookie!!!!!
My ( van ) Axil ran over your Mutumbo.........again!......... ( champs ) ...

...........messages being hurled like acid rain in the forest...yuk, yuk...

..........go willy...go gold.



(Sat Jan 03 1998 15:50 - ID#364147)
EB......and should hope they can beat the Hawks
EB: My 'Pats' would have one won 'if' they had Curtis Martin and Ben Coates---Steelers goin nowhere~~~~~Did Can.Dollar bottom already---up three in-a-row...70 ( . ) 17~~~~~Go ( gulp.. ) Vikes!!...

(Sat Jan 03 1998 16:05 - ID#22956)
funny isn't it??
My honda ( Japan built ) has 180,000+ miles on it ( paid for loooong ago ) . My truck is a Ford ( clubs and boards, etc ) . I kid you about what to buy. It was a parody on those who live by the slogan 'Buy USA'. I really don't care what you buy. Buy what you think is good after you do your homework. That's it. Saturn is a great car ( well copied/engineered ) and a great company that does well by their employees ( the BACKBONE ) . Employees come first. And I do believe this type of company should be supported and companies like it should also be supported. It will help the economy in the long run.

How about this slogan: "Don't buy Crap".

you're all right Spuds...



(Sat Jan 03 1998 16:23 - ID#93232)
Uh Oh!....where's tolerant#1? Last we heard, he was going to
Strangle Camdessus and eat a sandwich at the same time....Like I always say T#1...."If you can't join them...kill them" Oh, my. I'm glad Gay Edgar Hoover is not alive and lurking.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 16:27 - ID#26669)
ROR: thoughts on JFK and Medical bills?
Your math doesn't compute. If JFK and LBJ had never socialized healthcare then the rate of healthcare inflation would have been a fraction of what it has been. On a personal note my parents wouldn't have had to pay medicare taxes all their lives, I wouldn't still pay medicare taxes now and I could claim them as dependants on my present healthcare insurance policy for free. ( At least I could claim the one who is living. the other died before collecting a thin dime of government pie-in-the-sky. )

Before you aggrandise the Kennedy-Democratic legacy of overgovernment you've got to realize that the majority of those who succeed in America are those who do for themselves. This is still true. We just don't have the opportunity to say it as often as we used to, due to the preponderance of socialists among those who write the scripts for popular consumption. Usually I'd add an "IMHO" here, but this time I'll refrain. I think this fact is self evident for anyone who cares to explore the matter.

But I will say this positive for JFK's legacy. The 40% silver half dollar has a good value to face ratio for those, like myself who worry about downside risk. IMHO

(Sat Jan 03 1998 16:31 - ID#28585)
Gotta a phone call today from my banker
And I really oughta thank her
'Coz she knows that I'm leveraged beyond belief
I've even gone and mortgaged my seat
I'm short thousands of ounces of precious ore
I must be mentally deficient right down to my core
She's given me extra time to pay
A grace period so I'll find a way
To find a load of precious metal
To keep me from landing in the ghetto
Now I'm calling my friends at the CB's
"I need to borrow some gold quickly please"
But they're telling me to go take a hike
'Coz the supply of gold is getting tight
The mines are all closing down
There's a helluva lot less gold around
"Don't worry," I say, "Gold's just another commodity!"
But they smirk and regard me like I'm such an oddity
"Did you really buy all that New Era crap?", they ask
"Gold'll be a financial reserve until your last dying gasp!!!!"

(Sat Jan 03 1998 16:44 - ID#31868)
On J. Edgar's best day
I lean quietly by the window sill, Beverly is not home.

Lurker 777
(Sat Jan 03 1998 16:48 - ID#317247)
What are the tax consequences on holding bullion coins at a average cost of $300. per oz. and selling them for +$500. 18 months later?

Do bullion dealers report gold transactions over $10,000. even if you buy or sell with checks?

Do the Feds monitor individual gold transactions? KITCO?

How much gold can you bring into another country without declaring and do you use the face value?

Would the security or customs agents at airports really care?

Are there any offshore gold accounts?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 16:49 - ID#222167)

You may not know it,
But you're my favorite poet!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 16:53 - ID#41229)
EH@11:25 Post
Take a look @ your post and you confirm my statement that religion is getting a perception of being delusional!

I totally agree with you in the statement theat the masses are being misslead by the religion, we were forewarned in the scripture of this to take place. Churches of today #1 concern is revenue, this goes down to the local level. Have many problems with the churches of today!

The masses are a flock of sheep wanted to be lead. Question is who is leading? What are the motives.

I would submit their are few like us, who question leaders as to motives! ( I think that is the common thread to people @ this site! )

Diversity is good! causes the important questions to be asked!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 16:54 - ID#288295)
Gold-for-oil story

A few weeks ago I caught a very long series of electronic conversations entitled "From ANOTHER" on Colin Seymour's financial pages. The source article has since been removed, but dealt with a complex story of gold for oil trades, ostensibly from Saudi Arabia. Anybody else see this? If so, did you save the link to the source?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 17:01 - ID#22650)
ditto kct & 223 on ror
If america had stuck to its roots of individual liberty instead of collectivism, we could all earn enough real money to pay our own bills instead of being dependent on incompetents, charlatans, hucksters and legitimate crooks. It has been a long insidious process, but what in the grand experiment created free men is being reverted back to serfdom. Just finished an excellent book, a cowboy book by Elmer Kelton that is the antithesis of Steinbeck and just as good called "The Time It Never Rained". Suggested reading as a study of how government has ruined agriculture for our own good and debased the value of character.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 17:05 - ID#347457)
@Bart, Kitco, Y2k, etc,,
Bart, your post from 00:20 comparing Kitco to real data processing operation is comparing apples and oranges. Yes, Kitco experiences the same failure of software logic as software which runs any large corporation. That is about where the similarity ends. Have you ever been in a real data processing center of the large corporation? Multiple "big iron" machines, rooms full of disk drives and tape silos, thousands of software programs each ranging from 2,000 to 10,000 + lines of code. Even if you knew which line of code you need to change, it takes a multiple hours to rebuild the software and include it in a production environment.

To do that, in most cases you have to shut down the existing production environment to include the new ( fixed ) components, and restart the operation and in between none of the other programs can execute. There are system ( combination of multiple programs feeding each other ) which have a fixed time window to complete ( e.g., do a closing and reconciliation of last day transaction for a bank ) . If there is a hardware failure there is enough redundancy built into system so that the other machine takes over ( most of these system runs a dual processing and shadowing and the switch is done automatically ) . However, this does not do you any good if your software fails. That is the main reason that you have to test, verify, run the new component in parallel before you put it into production system.

Not the same as fixing Kitcos problem and "designated" programmer with beeper won't cut it. Now, if you missed your time processing window, that means that the other companies ( e.g. financial institution ) depending on you to do your piece can't continue in full production mode either.

It's not that every system will fail, but it is accepted fact that some of them will. You will see the same effect as in your car. One small part gives up and eventually the car does not run. One cylinder gives up and the engine will loose a part of its power. The same applies to highly interdependent economic entities depending on each other that the others will do their job.

No, we won't have a meltdown but we will have a significant difficulties well past the midnight 1999/2000.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 17:06 - ID#329157)


Cryptic sig #289

"We control the horizontal. We control the vertical."

(Sat Jan 03 1998 17:06 - ID#288157)
JapanTimes, Jan 3, 1998--editorial, worthwhile read...
Globalizing with a vengeance

The spread of "bahtulism" to Hong Kong, South Korea and ( albeit in an attenuated form ) to Japan confounded many experts. Their economies are so different that it is tempting to attribute the ripple effects to coincidence and not causality. But the loss of confidence in the "Asian miracle"

(Sat Jan 03 1998 17:13 - ID#426220)
Silverbaron: If you want the WHOLE STORY, you must go to the following location. This is the conclusion or summary of the the entire story. If you want to read all in sequence, scroll down to the bottom of the page, and start reading the Expose from Part-I. -

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 17:22 - ID#227311)
REFER: your 16:53. good post, I agree. Apologize if I offended
any on site, sometimes I just get carried away, the darkness in the world is sometimes overwhelming. Regards: EH

(Sat Jan 03 1998 17:22 - ID#227238)
Hipshot ( 12:41 ) : "The objective is to secure votes to stay in power. It's a classic." ..... Very true but that hardly differentiates them from Gingrich, Dole, Gephart, Wyden and 531 other sorry ass politicians at the federal ( feral? ) alone.

The Kennedys on the other hand, are unique. For nearly 4 decades they have served ( term used loosely ) to fill the average boobus americanus' need for royalty. Hell, even that steely eyed curmudgeon, LGB, is not immune to such foolishness. Revisit his fit of pique to Oldman on the passing of Princess Di. At the time, LGB's reaction was so violent that I thought Oldman had stepped on his scrotum. ( we can say scrotum in public can't we? ....yes I believe we can. ) ..... ROR and WW before him, as well. Faced with a market , they are as realistic as they come. But faced with the image of a prince or princess and they begain to weep uncontrollably. ....... and yet we are all equals??? .......... go figure.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 17:25 - ID#227238)
Hipshot ( 12:41 ) : "The objective is to secure votes to stay in power. It's a classic." ..... Very true but that hardly differentiates them from Gingrich, Dole, Gephart, Wyden and 531 other sorry ass politicians at the federal ( feral? ) alone.

The Kennedys on the other hand, are unique. For nearly 4 decades they have served ( term used loosely ) to fill the average boobus americanus' need for royalty. Hell, even that steely eyed curmudgeon, LGB, is not immune to such foolishness. Revisit his fit of pique to Oldman on the passing of Princess Di. At the time, LGB's reaction was so violent that I thought Oldman had stepped on his scrotum. ( we can say scrotum in public can't we? ....yes I believe we can. ) ..... ROR and WW before him, as well. Faced with a market , they are as realistic as they come. But faced with the image of a prince or princess and they begain to weep uncontrollably. ....... and yet we are all equals??? .......... go figure.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 17:46 - ID#227238)
Hipshot ( 12:41 ) : "The objective is to secure votes to stay in power. It's a classic." ..... Very true but that hardly differentiates them from Gingrich, Dole, Gephart, Wyden and 531 other sorry ass politicians at the federal ( feral? ) alone.

The Kennedys on the other hand, are unique. For nearly 4 decades they have served ( term used loosely ) to fill the average boobus americanus' need for royalty. Hell, even that steely eyed curmudgeon, LGB, is not immune to such foolishness. Revisit his fit of pique to Oldman on the passing of Princess Di. At the time, LGB's reaction was so violent that I thought Oldman had stepped on his scrotum. ( we can say scrotum in public can't we? ....yes I believe we can. ) ..... ROR and WW before him, as well. Faced with a market , they are as realistic as they come. But faced with the image of a prince or princess and they begain to weep uncontrollably. ....... and yet we are all equals??? .......... go figure.

It has been minutes and still this post will not enter the cyber pipeline. We must have used all of Bart's bandwidth for January.

An excerpt from an essay by HL Mencken on the above topic. Published in the Baltimore Evening Sun, May 12, 1940.

"As I said, the system is simple, and for awhile it works well enough. The shrill gloats and exultations of A, who has got something for nothing, drown out the repining of B, who has lost something that he earned. B, in fact, becomes officially disreputable, and the more he complains the more he is denounced and detested. He is moved, it appears, by a kind of selfishness which is incompatible with true democracy. He actually believes that his property is his own, to remain in his keeping, until he chooses to part with it. He is told at once that his information on the point is inaccurate, and his morals more than dubious. In an ideal democracy, he learns, property is at the disposal, not of its owners, but of politicians, and the chief business of politicians is to collar it by fair means or foul, and redistribute it to those whose votes have put them in office."

(Sat Jan 03 1998 18:11 - ID#31868)
Sabre in hand I say speak your mind, ask not for forgiveness. I stand ready to protect your right to express yourself.

And seals are whiskered.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 18:22 - ID#287277)
Fiat Currency ICU-Watch: Japanese P-O-V
Fiat Currency ICU-Watch:

"In Search of Further Stability in Yen Exchange Rates"
Japan Foreign Trade Council, Inc.

Our study consists of two parts. The first is about reform of Japan's financial market, which is solely Japan's own responsibility, and the second part is about reform of the international monetary system, which is a matter for the whole world and has to be addressed internationally, if Japan should play an active role to bring it about.

II. Reforming the International Monetary System
1. Explanation on Exchange Rate Fluctuations

Why then did the floating exchange rate fail to generate automatic international equilibrium and a stable exchange rate? In our
view, each country's freedom to pursue its own domestic economic goals, coupled with the present political climate, resulted in a weakening of policy discipline - more in some countries than others - so that internal and external disequilibrium, which neither governments nor foreign exchange market have been able to cope with, has developed. The foreign exchange market panicks easily when it is concerned about the value of a major currency. In his testimony to the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Banking, Finance, and Urban Affairs on April 13, 1994, George Soros said,"The instruments of hedging transfer the risk from the individual to the system. It behooves the people in charge of the system to provide stability. When everybody is out for themselves, they can destroy the system."

(Sat Jan 03 1998 18:32 - ID#31868)
You comments are consistently that which my hangover comtemplates. Thank you for being you.

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 18:37 - ID#227311)
To all: Need some help. Anyone who knows of good info site on
subject of Alzheimers would appriciate info. Have been caring for wifes Aunt in 3rd yr of disease. Found Canada site, its very good. Thank You. EH.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 18:38 - ID#26669)
Emerald: "The poor" and PM's
Compare the cost of ounce silver rounds to that of a carton of cigarettes, a video rental or a six pack of beer. Compare the cost of a 1/10 ounce of gold to a night at the fights or the horse track.

IMHO nobody is too poor to make good decisions.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 18:38 - ID#93199)
Fidelity Select Gold Charts
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Charts:
Five Year Chart
120 market days Chart
30 market days Chart
10 days Hourly Chart

These charts show a powerful UPTREND in progress.

silver plate
(Sat Jan 03 1998 18:39 - ID#289468)
That Japanese trade council report should have been writtten in Chinese,
would have been far more comprehensible.

silver plate
(Sat Jan 03 1998 18:39 - ID#289468)
That Japanese trade council report should have been writtten in Chinese,
would have been far more comprehensible.

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 18:47 - ID#227311)
223: Of course your comparison is correct but they can't afford
the equipment or the monthly cost for net provider, as can us wealthly challenged. How can we educate those we can not reach. And do they really want to be reached?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 18:51 - ID#227238)
@screwin' em two at a time.
Studio R: You have been beaten by 20 years. A major appliance dealer in Anchorage had the slogan: "Chilcoot Charlies. Where we cheat the other guy and pass the savings on to you". ...... Much like Kennedy, et al, politics. Eh, ROR?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 18:59 - ID#26669)
Emerald: AZ

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:00 - ID#31868)
Emerald Green
Your question is anathema to itself, a preoccupation,which I believe is masturbation on a less than intellectual level.

Dave in CO
(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:06 - ID#215211)
@Miro - y2k
Excellent comparison/contrast of large scale integrated infomation systems and a stand-alone, mostly read-only system like Kitco. Read on Gary Noth's site that very little parallel testing will be done even for the largest and most complex systems.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:13 - ID#26669)
Emerald: one more link for the night BTW, I figure that this is still more or less on topic as the government is one of the biggest users of computers which contain cpu's which contain GOLD!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:14 - ID#286250)
For Tolerant1's hangover: From the days when we didn't have politicians....

we had private men with an interest in government,

Samuel Adams, 1722-1803

"Truth loves an appeal to the common sense of mankind. Your unperverted understandings can best determine on subjects of a practical nature.

The positions and plans which are said to be above the comprehension of the multitude may always be suspected.

He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all."

For you too, silver plate...when was the last time you read ANYTHING
that made even the most feeble attempt to appeal to your common sense?
( :- )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:21 - ID#426220)
Emerald Heights: If you donotfind what you are looking for here, pls let me know, amd I will find more info sources:

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:24 - ID#93232)
@Earl....Who's doin' who?...
I'm used to being where's my banana pudding? please,please,please OOOOOowwwwwlllll!!! James Brown "I Feel Good!"

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:26 - ID#31868)
My toast is buttered. Parched muffin's squeal with envy. I say you are a privilege. Nice to know ya.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:27 - ID#93232)
Honk if you love Huntington, Ca.?

Mr. Mick
(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:33 - ID#345321)
SDRer,Tolerant,Vronsky.......I read the Kutyn article about Japan
and for the life of me can't understand why ANYBODY would shift their money from Japan back into other Asian countries. If Japan fails, as Kutyn says, surely funds will flow into the US, or other non-asian country.
No? Yes? Maybe?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:39 - ID#364147)
@ Cape Breton
Headphones tightly strapped on----musac blarin----go team gold!!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:47 - ID#347457)
@Dave in CO and Garry North site
Dave, as much as I don't want to talk technical details about Y2K on this site, sometimes that's the only way how to clarify some misconceptions about Y2K. Yes, I know Gary and his site. I dont agree with everything he says, on the other hand, a few items posted on his site are mine. In one post he labels me "frustrated programmer" ;- )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:48 - ID#31868)
The Geese are a flyin.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:49 - ID#401349)
Earl -- your 17:46
Yes, the Kennedy's do not have an exclusive on this one. I guess my point was that this "royal" family understands the concept of "opium for the masses" better than some of the more nouveau politicians -- thus the word cynical. It comes with the arrogance of "divine right."

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:49 - ID#29082)
Good Gold Site
If you haven't visited Cap'n Bill's Privateer site, try it, you'll like it! Great charts and insight.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:52 - ID#35767)
Re Huntington Cal

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:55 - ID#427357)
Mick: Assume you are Mr. Doy Keda Hashimoto from Japan. You are a very wealthy businessman, so you IN THE PAST - WHEN TIMES WERE ROSY - YOU purchased $1,000,000 in US T-Bonds some time ago. Now your businesses in Japan and other Asian countries are going broke, and your domestic cash reserves have been decimated by repeated devaluations. TO survive in your local busineses, AND INDEED TO BE ABLE TO BUY FOOD FOR YOUR FAMILY, you must liquidate your foreign ( read US investments ) and bring the money home --- because THERE IS NO DOMESTIC LIQUIDITY.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:57 - ID#344308)


awwwww......come on i have to put the smiley
face in??? it was obviously facetious......

ok.........!; ) -----i ain't lyeing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


who says far-left-fal is a poet???!; ) there is the smiley face...!; )
peace fellow limb crawler.........i mean peace pipe....where's ted?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:58 - ID#93232)
So T#1, Do you know what Will Rogers had to say .....
About my beloved Okies rolling into the San Joaquin to help you fellers out with yer onions? ( It's a helluva' lot more salient than any crap that Johnny Steinbeck spewed out...that rhetorical scum scribbler ) .

Mr. Mick
(Sat Jan 03 1998 19:59 - ID#345321)
Vronsky, so Kutyn was talking about holding cash
not putting it back into stocks. That makes sense. Thanks

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:02 - ID#222167)
Cherokee: You make me laugh too, but you're no farfel!

Dave in CO
(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:03 - ID#215211)
@Miro - yes, I've read you there, thanks.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:10 - ID#318321)
I agree Chiefs and the PAC in the big bowl. RE: Hondas. I got a 1990 Accord LX, love that car. Its paid for and everything on it works. I'd get a new car, but this one runs great. I bought it before I developed a buy american policy. Re: Gold. Well the question seems to be if we'll have a correction down below the our recent bottom or we keep treking upward. Do I know? No. But I am prepared to buy more physical no matter what the price does. As for those PM stocks I only get depressed when I look at my brokerage statements, so I stop looking. Every dog has his day, and PM stocks day is coming, hopefully soon. Wish I had some inside information to share or some witty observation to share, but I just now getting out of the holiday fog. Good luck to everybody!


(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:11 - ID#31868)
And I kneel beneath the God's, seeketh not forgiveness is me. On the eve I sleep in the cold, perhaps I may be a child of the star, Varna is my home, dip me in the river and if I am that which is worthy I might survive

I would not want to be my enemy's best friend..

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:11 - ID#344308)


as it should be........thank god...

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:12 - ID#364147)
CherOkee........and funny ya should ask
Put this in the catagory of ain't it a small world---but was just puffin on the 'peace pipe' ya speak so fondly of.....puff....puff....ahhhhhhhhh

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:13 - ID#364147)
56 days ta go
But who's

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:14 - ID#329157)
A Brief History of Gold!

Off to the hills where gold glimmers in the river sands, calling men to come and risk their lives to find it! Will they "strike it rich" or will they, like so many before them, grow old and withered in a fruitless search for the precious metal?

"Thar's gold in them hills, stranger" says the old miner. And those few words are enough to put a new light in men's eyes.

Gold! It means dark forests and rushing streams and digging in cold water to find the glistening grains.

Gold! It means braving hardship and toil, cold and heat, to try one's luck with Fortune.

Gold! It means adventure and a fight with men and Nature, with maybe disappointment for us in the end, and maybe a pile of gleaming yellow dust.

There has never been a period during recorded history when the magic whisper of gold could not steal away the wits of men and send them to dig and die, perhaps to steal and kill, in order to get a little of the yellow stuff- so useless, yet so powerful...

Reading earlier posts:

is a temporary mirror bug-fix page that I created for Kitco date searching, since the original web page has a "Year 1998 bug"

Also, allows you to view all of 1998, but not post.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:17 - ID#347457)
@Vronsky and Mr. Mick on money for Asia
Well, some of the money goes to stocks. Read the following article in the Washington Post

It talks abour South Koreans in the US sending millions back home, some of the money goes to stocks and mutual funds.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:17 - ID#344308)


----went right over my head-------!; ) there's that danged smiley-face

haggis------ever encountered a hubbly bubbly? know of em?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:22 - ID#310407)
@ Tech. analysis/Silver
My wave theory for SIlver continue to hold it's course. Silver has fallen in the past few days but stays within it's prescribed channel for this bull run. The wave theory I refer to of course is the "stadium wave" theory, which postulates that the 49'rs decisive humiliation of Minnesota, and the "stadium waves" it produced, can only mean a continued climb for the Silver market.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:25 - ID#310407)
@ Puetz...what don't like my rhymes?
There once was an analyst Pitz
the market kept giving him fits
he called for DOW crashing
yet records it's smashing
Now those S&P puts look like Shitz!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:27 - ID#310407)
Any of our Aussie friends have opinions on Pegasus? WIll the Aussie Govt. help bail em out or let em get liquidated?

Mr. Mick
(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:27 - ID#345321)
Miro, interesting article in the Washington Post..............
Reminds me of the Spike Lee move "Do the Right Thing", where asian emmigrants set up shop in a black ghetto and outperformed the locals.
The message in the article was pretty profound - that the Koreans back home "should have been more thrifty" and were celebrating their economic success too early.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:32 - ID#310407)
@ Titanic........the movie....the economy.....
Wife and I saw Titanic yesterday. Great film, reminded me of Kitcoites warnings...Ice Burgs ahead captain "No up them boilers ( money supply? ) we gotta set a new record, full speed ahead!" remeber though, that much mass has a LOT of inertia and it takes a long time to make it turn....

Very intense movie though..keeps you awake afterwards.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:33 - ID#310407)
Poker time
OK, off to the tables to make some dough....sorry for the hit & run posts, Monday will be excitin!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:42 - ID#364147)
Just out of curiousity
Who won the 'Skiing-Football game'........

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:51 - ID#31868)
19:14 Elbows still on knees, contemplative, yours is always a plate full. Thinking.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:52 - ID#364147)
'Kiss of death'
Go Chiefs-Bucs........and gold~~~~~~~

silver plate
(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:57 - ID#289468)
Simplifiying the asian crisis
I have been watching products and prices for a number of years. Japanese cars, asian shoes, chinese watches, etc. Do you remember when New England

was the shoe center? But shoes from there cost $50 to $150. Now Walmart or Payless Shoe have asian shoes ( good quality ) for $8.95 to $25.00. Sometimes there is a special, 2 for the price of one. All this adds up to

no inflation in the import product category. So here we are enjoying the labor and products of millions of nimble asian fingers while the asian businesses undercut our markets, underpay their workers, overproduce,

and don't charge enough for their items to make a proper profit so they can pay their bills, so now the businesses are going broke and the banks that lent the money are going broke and the merry-go-round comes to a halt. It can't be that simple. This is all in the name of "free trade"

I must have missed something . HELP

(Sat Jan 03 1998 20:59 - ID#364147)
S.D.......................on headphones----------CherOkee
Way back in '67' ---I was a dandy-----hey nineteen~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:00 - ID#93232)
@T#1....when asked , Rogers merely said......
"It raised the I.Q. of both states."

Re: your 20:11...

Pablo Picasso masters pieces of tit and lines.
you have immersed space in time.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:00 - ID#31868)
I am looking into the mirror that is me. These thoughts that you have provided me with are much. Deep in thought is me. Thank you.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:03 - ID#426220)

PART - II, January 1, 1998

The author entitles the second part of his profound treatise as: The Alchemist Theory: Gold is Dead.

Are we witnessing the culmination of the alchemist's dream: that a fiat currency, whether made of paper or electrons, has become
not only "as good as gold" ( Alan Greenspan ) but has become a
perfect substitute?

He examines the pros, cons and feasibility of a One Global Currency. Its an intellectual exercise and very heady stuff.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:07 - ID#31868)
Privilege is the mailbox unto which I deliver your envelope's.

Emerald Heights
(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:10 - ID#227311)
223 & Vronsky: Thank you very much for the help.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:12 - ID#93232)
@All....the master plays now....take more than five...all you need....
America's rival to Jobim....DAVE BRUBECK...ON ABC AS WE SPEAK. This is what makes America greater.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:17 - ID#255284)
There is much to be proud of from America, especially music...
take 5

scataurator back from the beach with brubeck

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:26 - ID#301188)
- Australasian Gold Mines has become the second Oz goldminer in the past 3 weeks to through in the towel.
- " This lull in the gold price really has sorted the men out from boys in terms of getting back to having a highergrade robust gold deposit," said a local gold analyst.
-Oz producers have been 'house cleaning' for some several months now, and more departures are expected.
-So. the answer to your question LGB2 ( at this ) is -No
-P.S. ---hope you win some dosh

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:28 - ID#226355)
Gold Questions
Lurker 777- The tax consequences of a $200 dollar rise in gold is a capital gain, Sch.D. Bullion dealers do not report sales paid by check. Cash is a different story. Exporting gold personally comes under the $10,000 dollar declaration level. Importing gold into another country- check with the country. Security people do not generally care about gold but be prepared to request a private room to show them what is in your brief case. Bottles of gold or rolls of coins really show up solid on the x-ray security devices and you will be asked to open it up. I prefer to do this in private.

Chas- Randy Clarksons report on placer recovery using radio tracers is the last word on catching gold in gravity systems.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:31 - ID#31868)
Thanks. Excellent. Waiting for Benson. I never liked you, thanks.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:35 - ID#301188)
...through- should read: throw
-I'm through for the day - cheers guys!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:36 - ID#301318)
Ha! Almost no funding for music in public schools! (way off topic, sorry)
There was a very interesting article I read years ago that proved that students who are taught music are better able to grasp mathimatical concepts. And the earlier they learn the better. Our educators are treated like dirt and the public is completely ignorant of how to educate. Now how many professional programmers here love music or play an instrument? I'll rest my case in advance because I know the answer.

Just out of curiousity, what type of music to you prefer?

Run With the Devil on Spanish Highway - Al Di Meola

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:39 - ID#348286)
@Hey, another Steely Dan Fan
When Georgie comes home.......

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:42 - ID#28585)
I've been feeling down, I can't even describe
How miserable I feel being alive
I'm short 100, 000 ounces of silver and twice as much gold
I must have sh__ for brains, I must be an absolute dolt
So I went to my favorite whorehouse to get some cheer
I find it lifts the spirits more than beer
I found myself a hooker beyond compare
She had a kick-ass figure and golden hair
We bonked and bonked until we were both sore
I've never met such an insatiable whore
I pulled out my wallet and offered her my whole wad
If she'd let me spend the night playing with her hot bod
Scowling at my paper money, she'd have none of that
"Give me gold or silver" if you want another crack at bat
So I called up my friends at the ol' CB's
"Guys, I need some gold real fast, if you please
I've got me a whore who's not into American bucks
She wants precious metals or I don't get no F__ks"
They hooted and hollered at my sad position
A horny guy loaded with dollars not getting coition
"Listen, Shorty, we've already lent most of our ore
So much we just can't lend anymore
You see, there's a shortage developing across the land
So you better reacquaint yourself with your left hand!!!"

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:43 - ID#301318)
now spelling is another matter entirely different :))

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:49 - ID#348286)
@``This is the largest weekly withdrawal recorded since we began distributing info in January 1992"
Did US funds lose or gain cash in Dec?

NEW YORK, Dec 29 ( Reuters ) - The arcane field of mutual-fund accounting -- something usually reserved for the experts -- is at the heart of a brewing dispute that may effect nearly every individual investor, no matter how modest his or her portfolio.

The question is, were billions of dollars, on balance, pulled out of U.S. stock funds this month or did millions of dollars pour into them?

Usually the answer to that key question is easy to obtain by watching the so-called ``flow'' tabulations of two rival services -- AMG Data Services and Mutual Fund Trim Tabs. Most of the time, their numbers provide U.S. portfolio managers with a coherent gauge of investor behavior while offering insight about stock market liquidity and sentiment.

For December, however, the two services came up with strikingly different data, raising questions about the methodology each of them uses.

To be sure, similar discrepancies surfaced last December, a tricky period to calculate flows because funds distribute capital gains, which are often reinvested. Still, the debate this year is of particular importance to investors because of nagging questions about whether the U.S. stock market has enough steam to continue its long upward surge.

``Flow numbers are important because individual investors have been singularly responsible, an important factor in this bull market through their purchases of mutual funds,'' Hugh Johnson, chief investment officer at First Albany said.

Last Friday, AMG Data Services, based in Arcata, Calif., reported net stock fund outflows for the three-week period ended Dec. 23. In the week ended last Tuesday, it said all equity funds lost a record $9.48 billion after losing $1.09 billion in the previous week.

``This is the largest weekly withdrawal we have recorded since we began distributing information in January 1992,'' AMG Data President Bob Adler said. ``This is the third consecutive week of outflows. There is some negative marginal sentiment developing.''

Marginal sentiment refers to sentiment among investors who do not buy mutual funds to earn retirement savings, but invest to diversify portfolios or for other reasons, Adler said.

Fine. Except rival tracking service Mutual Fund Trim Tabs has reported stock funds inflows during December, when stock funds flow tend to slow as investors delay new purchases until after taxable capital gains are distributed.

``There are indications of intense competition ( between services ) ...though I'm not sure what it all means for the individual investor,'' said John Collins, managing director of public information at mutual fund industry group Investment Company Institute.

Trim Tabs said all equity funds took in an estimated $81 million in the four days ended Dec. 24. Based on data up until Dec. 24, U.S. stock funds took in an estimated $13.2 billion for the month, Trim Tabs said.

``Their data is sloppy,'' said Charles Biderman, Trim Tabs president, referring to AMG. ``If you take data from families that are not reliable, you get data that is not reliable.''

AMG said it is confident the fund families it tallies provide reliable data, and its numbers are accurate.

Some differences between the two services lie in their mathematical analyses, in variations among the specific funds the services polled by them and in the different ways funds account for distributions.

AMG collects total net asset value and price data on 11,500 open-end fund share classes directly from over 500 fund sources. It excludes distributions when tallying fund flows.

``The $9.5 billion figure was real money leaving the market,'' Adler said. ``It excludes distributions...The actual distribution effect is a non-event as far as cash moving in and out of funds are concerned.''

Trim Tabs said it also excludes reinvestments from its flow data, but it applied so-called regression analysis to about 100 fund families -- as opposed to the 500 or 600 families AMG polled. Regression analysis is a form of extrapolation using partial data.

``Net new cash flow, according to the ICI, does not include reinvested dividends,'' said Carl Wittnebert, Trim Tabs director of research. ``We have to estimate the dividend reinvestment, then exclude it, but we think our numbers are good.''

The process was complicated because fund families used different accounting processes to account for reinvested dividends, Wittnebert said.

But AMG's Adler said the service was confident the mutual funds it surveyed reported flow data accurately, and criticized the use of regression analysis.

``To extrapolate and run regression analysis on 750 ( corrects from 750,000 ) funds is like picking out four cards from a deck and assuming the other 48 are there,'' he said.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:54 - ID#364147)
'Electric Puha'
Made my day~~~~~~~~~and night....

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:55 - ID#426220)
Someone tonight mentioned one of my favorite Americans, an Okie by birth, but a universal humanitarian AND GIANT by his actions and word: Will Rogers DOWN TO EARTH COMMON-SENSE WISDOM is uncommon in today's material world -

A conference is just an admission that you want somebody to join you in your troubles.

{Work and Recreation}

An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out.

{Altruism and Cynicism}

Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy" until you can find a rock.

{Law and Politics}

Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.

{Work and Recreation}

Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.

{Wisdom and Ignorance}

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.

{Law and Politics}

Why not go out on a limb? That's where the fruit is.

{Success and Failure}

(Sat Jan 03 1998 21:56 - ID#93232) is moving math.....
The fretboard, the woodwinds' holes and the keys are intonated mathematically...chromatic, determined distances that are rigid, uncompromising for the ear. And random access memory comes into play as essential requirement for the performance. And then there is improvisation...the player overcoming the boundaries of convention and fear.

Tonight I like: Musical Score...A.C. Jobim, G. Gershwin, Richard Rogers
Lyric...Cole Porter, Sammy Cahn, Johnny Mercer, L.Hart

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:01 - ID#31868)
Algorithmic bliss.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:06 - ID#31868)
A genuine original.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:13 - ID#255284)
Miles and Miles of Texas
The Golden Music of Texas.
Useta be a DJ on local student radio, specialist show - Western Beats, -Border Radio: love -- Guy Clark, Terry Allen, Townes van Zandt, Joe Ely, Butch Hancock, Mike Henderson, Merle, Jason Eklund, Steve Young Styeve Goodman- Iris de Ment, Gillian Welch early Emmylou list goes on
just redneck music, most of these folk hail from lil ol' Texas, Oklahoma so out of mainstream I doubt many knows em, I met many of em, interviewed a few

The silver tongued devil is I


(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:13 - ID#348286)
@Well Thought Out Analysis

For the Cyriuss Investment Forum

January, 1998

The Osiris Report: Stay Away from Gold and Gold Stocks?

By Christos Livadas & Central Investment Agency Research Team

You are probably as curious in hearing a pitch about adding gold to
your portfolio as you would enjoy investing in Dutch tulip futures, the
Korean won or a seat on the first Martian space shuttle. One could probably
sing the praises of Barry Manilow to a larger audience, rather than talk up
the virtues of owning gold bullion to them. At no time, since gold crashed
from above $800/oz has investor interest been so lacking. If one were to
apply to the chilly gold climate that Lord Rothschild cliche of "buy when
blood is running in the streets," he or she might testify that the bloodbath
has surpassed flood levels on those streets.
However, if one is a student of economic theory, one compares supply
versus demand, relying on ruthlessly inflexible numbers and not whimsical,
but popular, opinions. In the real world, not the one inhabited by
politicians, the mainstream media and futures traders, if the supply of
something dwindles and the demand for this something increases, then that
same something simply costs more. Nonetheless, if cable television viewers,
who recently bailed out the DJIA, are bombarded with the prevailing conclusion
that gold has run its course, an inexorable demise, such spectators can not
help, but nod their heads, and agree that investing in companies, with stock
prices at fifteen times revenues, are a safer bet than gold stocks. Simple
economics are again ignored by the retail, often amateur, investor against
the backdrop of television actors starring in the roles of market commentator.
It may serve such investors well to write their favorite television
commentator and ask him or her, "What's the weather like on your planet?"
Because gold has become the pariah of the investment community and
because redemptions of gold-focused mutual funds have achieved
previously unthinkable levels, you may wish to review your collegiate
notes from Economics 101. Capricious and irresponsible sentiments tend
to wither under the heated spotlight of reality.


At the current gold price, more than 50% of mined production, around
1,100 tonnes annually, is unprofitable. Demand for gold, in 1996,
exceeded supply by more than 800 tonnes. At the current pace of demand
for gold, that deficit could well better 1,500 tonnes by the year 2000.
Gold producers can not replace their reserves, fast enough, to meet this
demand. What is consumed annually, roughly 100 million ounces, comprises
the entire reserves of Barrick and Newmont. By the way, none of these
deficit figures include Hong Kong and Singapore, whose official numbers
are subject to debate, possibly further increasing the actual
supply/demand gap.
The low gold price has chopped off much hopes of profitability within
this industry. In South Africa, the average full cost of gold production
is well above the price of spot gold. Only five of South Africa's major
mines could show a profit, if spot gold merely rose to $320/oz. About
half of the western world's gold production, on a full cost basis, is
unprofitable with gold selling at that spot price. Should gold continue
to stay beneath $320/oz, some estimate that the 1997 supply/demand
deficit could reach an all-time record, as much as 1,500 tonnes. While
many expect the markets won't reflect the impact this has on the
industry until late 1998 or 1999, you should realize that major mining
companies have been holding emergency meetings, canceling overtime,
slashing expenditures, delaying tunneling and halted the mining of
low-grade areas, as well as layoffs. Despite the clamor that senior gold
producers had wisely hedged, against this crisis, by forward selling,
possibly as much as 2,000 tonnes, their management are collectively
panicking over the growing number of mine closures and the possibility
of negative earnings throughout the first half of 1998.
With all the noise over central bank sales, it would take about 1,500
tonnes in central bank sales to absorb the growing demand for gold. This
year's hullabaloo sprung forth as a result of less than 500 tonnes of
central bank selling, which hardly cracked a dent in the increasing
supply deficit. Growing demand is entirely another story.
According to the New York-based CPM Group, gold demand is expected to
rise to 98.9 million tonnes in 1997 and another 0.08% this year. India,
the world's second most populated country, accounts for 20.7% of the
total world fabrication demand. Gold use in India is running well ahead
of last year's levels and the Indian government announced, in October,
that it had begun liberalizing its import policy. Demand could increase
beyond their current pace of 20.4 million ounces ( 634 tonnes ) . Italy
leads Europe in rising demand for gold, with demand running ahead of
last year by 11.3%. Italian gold fabrication demand stands at 547 tonnes
or 17.6 million ounces of gold, as the use of gold jewelry in Europe is
expected to rise at its fastest rate since 1989.
Unless production increases, which the major mining companies can not
possibly reverse on a moment's notice, no amount of noise and chatter of
"gold has lost its luster" can prevent spot gold's price from at least a
twenty to thirty percent increase. The amount of gold futures contract
short-selling stands well above 50,000 contracts, which guarantees there
will be ample bids, should a short squeeze materialize. If such a scenario
were to unfold, then that momentum could propel gold past $350/oz rather
quickly, as traders scramble to close out those contracts.


The central banks and official agencies own 33,000 tonnes of gold,
which resulted in a decline of about $80 billion in the value of their
gold holdings. Over the past decade, central bank net sales have
averaged 250 tonnes annually. In 1996, 19 central banks bought gold
while 16 sold and of the 16 sellers, only 5 sold 10 tonnes or more. More
than 70 percent of all central bank sales, during the past ten years,
came from Belgium, Netherlands and Canada. In mid-1997, the gold markets
were "shocked" because Australia sold most of its reserves, 167 tonnes,
and, again, Argentinia sold virtually all of its gold reserves, slightly
more than 4 million ounces. In actuality, both central bank sales were
mostly concluded prior to spot gold's collapse below the $350/oz level.
Yet, the New York and English investment communities have successfully
convinced the financial press that it was not those sales which explain
gold's demise, it is those which are to come in the months ahead. Who
are these central bank sellers?
If one's sole source of information were financial television, he or
she would inevitably conclude that central banks were emptying their
gold vaults and could not dump it into the open market fast enough. In
reality, gold holdings in the official sector have fluctuated, somewhere
between 33,000 and 35,000 tonnes for almost 30 years. Cacophony over the
widely covered central bank sales have reduced that total by less than
5%, since 1989. According to the International Monetary Fund, total
official holdings, over the past three decades, have been reduced by
3,000 tonnes, or less than 10%. As of March 1997 official gold holdings
stood at 34,096 tonnes.
One might more sensibly infer that central banks would be net buyers
during 1998. The German Finance Minister has gone on record, announcing,
"Germany will not sell one ounce of gold." More than 10% of the official
holdings are held by the German Bundesbank, approximately 3700 tonnes
or 36% of their total reserves. Jean Pierre Patat of France's Central
Bank recently stated, "Several central banks which had sold gold from
their reserves now feel there is no longer an advantage to selling more
bullion as any advantage was outweighed by the loss on remaining
reserves from reducing the gold price."
Gold, as a percentage of a country's reserves, contrasts the outrageous
and fictitious picture painted by the media. Asian developing nations
hold only 6% of gold reserves and nearly 28% of world foreign currency
reserves. Include Japan into the Asian factor and you will find that
they collectively hold about 9% of gold reserves and nearly 41% of world
to more than double the reserves sold by the Australians and Argentines.
This tiny percentage of gold purchasing would overwhelm the gold
In July, Japan's Prime Minister sent shock waves through the industry
by stating, "Exchange rate instability might encourage Japan to sell some
of its US Treasury security holdings and buy gold." There is ample
evidence that the Japanese have, indeed, been selling some of those
holdings since his announcement. One good reason why the Japanese may be
interested in purchasing gold is that gold has become cheaper for them,
beaten down from 44,000 Yen per ounce of gold, this past Spring, to
under 36,000 Yen/oz.
In retrospect, it has been the anticipation of accelerated central
bank selling which has fueled the dive in gold's price, not the actual
selling of the metal. Few traders currently perceive more reward than
risk to the downside, as the replacement cost for new production greatly
exceeds the price of spot gold. While market commentators have explained
that few are interested in adding gold to their portfolios, quite the
opposite is the case. That there hasn't yet been a stampede of buyers
and short covering lies closer to the mark.


Prior to the Great Depression of the 1930's, one could define the US
dollar in terms of 23.22 grains of gold and the British Pound sterling
as 113 grains of gold. If one were to compare today's purchasing power
parity value of gold against the US dollar, you might be surprised to
discover that the value of gold in 1835, 1879 and 1934 dollars would be,
respectively $320.73; $355.09; $366.48. Average those figures and you
will find out that this average hovers around US$347.
In a more recent time, 1972, a period when gold was artificially held
down, it took 20 ounces of gold to "buy the Dow Jones Industrial
Average." At the peak of the 1980 bull market in gold, one ounce could
have "bought the Dow." It now takes approximately 27 ounces to
accomplish this feat. As extensive derivatives speculation continues to
fuel the paper-based bull market in US equities, gravity may again
become the great equalizer for this parallel.
One should scrutinize the tragedy which Australia's central bank has
begun inflicting upon its nation. While Australia estimates it will gain
US$70 million annually in interest earnings by investing in US Treasury
securities, they reduced the value of Australia's gold reserves "in the
ground" by approximately US$1 billion and other gold resources in that
country by up to US$2 billion. It would take more than 40 years of such
interest payments to compensate the Australian treasury for their
losses, if gold were to remain at current levels. With that decision to
dump gold reserves, the Australian central bank also reduced the
economic viability of extracting these resources, at gold's current
price, jeopardizing many of the jobs in that industry and those
ancillary industries servicing this sector.
US and Australian gold producers, who locked in forward selling hedge
gains of up to $3 billion, are feeling the angst of their shareholders
who have witnessed a market capitalization decline of more than $15
billion. This forward selling may well reverse the pendulum, formerly
having incited momentum to gold's downside, now appears it could lead
gold's price out of the doldrums. Why would gold producers continue such
forward selling at uneconomic levels.
One should not rule out a backwardation, whereby spot gold trades
above the futures price. This was witnessed in the platinum and palladium
markets, during the late Spring and Summer of 1997, when the Russians
failed to make timely deliveries of those metals.


Most incorrectly blame the Alberta-based gold hoax, BRE-X Minerals,
for the current plight in the Canadian resource stocks. In reality, IF BRE-X
actually had 100 million ounces, then a slump in world gold prices might
make some sense. Speculators have short memories, forgetting that other
world-class gold deposits, such as Delgratia, Corriente and Golden Rule,
were less than anticipated, if not, themselves, attempts to also swindle
that sector of the investment community. A chaotic concoction of
disappointments led the retail US investor and institutional European
investors to close the door on the support of the Canadian penny
exploration stocks.
Had the more clever investors studied the first half of 1996 more
carefully, they would have discovered that major mining companies were
heavily selling forward their gold production, into the 21st century,
thus flooding the market with inventory. Insider reports, readily
available to any worthy speculator, would have depicted a wave of
insider selling in April and May 1996. The severe correction, during the
summer of 1996, was the warning shot that few noted and many ignored.
Indeed, the penny stocks weren't selling for pennies any more; they had
grown to fives, tens and twenty-dollar bills. Enormous profits, from
those who wisely cashed out of BRE-X Minerals in May 1996, were being
poured back into other speculative Canadian exploration stocks. As is
oft the case with such markets, many had margined themselves to the
eyeballs to capitalize upon the mantra of bulk-tonnage, low-grade
deposits, a chant which then spun throughout that industry, burning up
phone lines and clogging the mails with four-color brochures. That was
boom time and now is the bust end of that cycle, with low-grade gold
deposit translated as uneconomic deposit. Today, few appear eager to
step to the plate and finance any exploration for the next elephant gold
deposit. Typically, retail investors are more likely to eschew gold
exploration stocks until they have rebounded to stratospheric levels,
affirming their motto of buying high and selling lower.
With exploration having become the dirtiest eleven-letter word in the
English language, Canadian junior resource companies are mainly broke.
In the fourth quarter 1997, the Vancouver stock exchange permitted these
companies, on a case-by-case basis, to re-price their warrants in order
to entice private placement holders to fund these juniors and forestall
the kinetic collapse of the Canadian junior exploration markets.
Throughout the latter half of 1997, Canadian brokerage firms began
replacing their recommendations of mining companies with high fliers on
the NASDAQ. It is estimated that the penny stock brokerage community may
shrink by half during 1998. In fact, many western Canadian brokers, who
favored mining issues, have already left the business. The industry-wide
shakeout has reverberated throughout the community, sparing neither
investors nor brokerage firms.
Because mining exploration has reached a standstill, on both the senior
and junior levels, any serious and real discovery of a new gold deposit
is likely to be well received by the penny stock culture. Unless that
gold deposit is also on the order of what BRE-X Minerals promised, that
would hardly affect the somber outlook of the supply/demand equation.
One might as well conclude that this planet is more likely to run out of
significant gold deposits faster than it runs out of oil. It should
surprise no one reading this article that spot gold could, someday,
smash the old barrier of $900/oz gold, simply because no new supply came
into the marketplace soon enough to meet the increasing demand. The
greatest blow to those short-selling gold is likely to come from the
very activity, which they brought about: reduced exploration for new
deposits. Lacking current exploration, the exploration sector of the
gold industry may take more than two years to again boot up. Until that
time, inventory will continue to dwindle.


Since 1600, gold has outperformed paper currencies. Since World War
II, it has become US policy to replace gold with the US dollar. If you
can not grasp the notion that US politicians have had an agenda to do
away with gold, then read what Alan Greenspan wrote in 1966, long before
he became head of the US Federal Reserve:

"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against
gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the 'hidden confiscation'
of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands
as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no
difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold

Every human attempt to corner any tangible or intangible asset, on this
planet, has utterly failed. Whether it was Hitler's or Ghengis Khan's passion
to corner the market on terror, or the Bank of England's or the Hunt brothers'
efforts to corner the world market in silver, or OPEC's cartel with oil, no
one has yet succeeded in monopolizing one asset under one roof. Not Standard
Oil, not AT&T and now not Microsoft. Why should the US dollar succeed in
overcoming more than a millenium of trusting gold?
While the US equities market continues the appearance of still looking
healthy, there are inherent problems which continue to be ignored. Japan
holds nearly one quarter of US Treasury Securities, in excess of $320 billion.
Since the summer of 1997, Japan has been quietly unloading their bonds. Had
Europe not begun purchasing these bonds at record levels, October 1997's Blue
Monday might have been renamed "The Day The Markets Died." You may also
recollect the strong pitches on CNN television, that Monday night, when market
experts urged US investors to seek a safe haven in US bonds. The bond market
soared and led to the recovery in US equities. That scenario may not necessarily
be repeated in the future.
The time to buy gold stocks is when gold stock funds are the worst
performing mutual funds, at the bottom of everyone's wish list, not after
they lead the crowd for the quarter or the year. Frequently, a shakeout in
such markets occurs prior to the bull-run. In this brief window of
opportunity may be a time when bargain basement hunting for gold stocks could
really pay off. More accurately, the time of reckoning will, at last, arrive
when commentator sentiment celebrates with a ticker-tape funeral parade for
gold past 120 Broadway. When the last gold bull has become overly cautious,
then are the markets most likely to reverse on a less temporary basis.

Isn't that the way it mostly happens?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:18 - ID#35767)
There have been some indiscretions, but, if the wealthy of the world comported themselves as the Kennedys ie SPECIAL OLYMPICS by Eunice and the Shriver clan and providing oil and gas to the poor as Michael K and his brothers were doing and proposing LOWER payroll TAXES on the working people as are TED Patrick and Joe. Not to mention anti Nafta and Gatt stands. Rep Patrick Kennedy is also against abortion and pro catholic church type stance on social issues but pro worker and pro American on economics. This has to scare the bejesus out of internationalists Wall St puppets like Newt and Trent who try to use the democrats extremist social agenda as cover to try to legitimize their extremist anti -Worker and anti American Trade policy.. In sum, THE WEALTHY of the world can not hold a candle to what the KENNEDY FAMILY has done to sincerely help people and this country.
Patrick Kennedy for Prez in 2008!! Progressive Liberalism with a Social Conservative twist... its coming folks and the Republican conservatives quiver at the thought!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:27 - ID#93232)
@Ted a El Cabo de Breton....
Donald Fagan.....yes, yes, yes....The NightFly...ohmy!
Walter Becker.....yes, yes, yes, these two musical monsters break our bondage and create happiness for all. Deacon Blues to you, mi amigo.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:27 - ID#30116)
ROR -- Speaking of the 'Oil for the pooooh', how is it that some of those Kennedy types managed to EARN about $600,000/year or so from a NON-PROFIT program to provide oil to the poor? Hmmmmm. Sorry, but tragedy strikes us all. Why should they be any different or special ( As Mr. Rogers would say... )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:28 - ID#344205)

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:32 - ID#162148)
ROR: Indiscretions????? Dealing heroin ( Matthew ) , forcible rape ( W.Kennedy Smith ) , statuatory rape ( Michael ) , manslaughter ( Teddy ) . If these are mere indiscretions, what, pray tell, would you call criminality?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:33 - ID#30116)
Outstanding today!

Yesterday I heard callers to talks shows express both sides of the 'Kennedy' thing. One thing is clear, you either love'em or you hate'em. Not much in between! I guess for the Kennedy's, statutory rape and rape are, ... as some would put it, indiscretions? Where is the N.O.W. gang when you need them...

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:35 - ID#30116)
Good evening! It's been a while.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:38 - ID#333131)
SDRer and all
Did you see Puetz's 12:28 on Greenspan? Read it if you missed it. Off for the night.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:40 - ID#333131)
SDRer and all
Did you see Puetz's 12:28 on Greenspan? Read it if you missed it. Off for the night.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:42 - ID#398105)

Pegasus are bailout from the Government.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:43 - ID#30116)
ROR - you wouldn't be WW reincarnated, by any chance, would you? You seem to have a Massachusetts / New England liberal bias in your posts. :- )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:44 - ID#288295)
MoReGold - Well Thought Out Analysis

I quite agree with the analysis - but which of the ( blood in the gold-mining streets ) decimated will survive to give us 20 to 1 when gold goes back to $500?

Pegasus? Durban Deep?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:44 - ID#30116)
ROR - you wouldn't be WW reincarnated, by any chance, would you? You seem to have a Massachusetts / New England liberal bias in your posts. :- )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:46 - ID#93232)
@Aurator....Comin ' to ya' from......Del Rio Texas...
Grab yer main squeeze and hang on tight...I like Joe Ely and Guy Clark and the Hag the most on your list...God, you're cool.Hhhoooowwwlllll!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:48 - ID#344205)
Happy New Year Everyone......(As if you hadn't heard it yet?!)

ACTION: ( Cmax comes swooping into Kitco thru the window with his new IBM/pentium with 64megs of RAM, 8 meg video card, and 6.4 gigs of hard drive. )

Cmax: Alas, maybe now we can keep this old gold bear at bay with all this power! is REALLY *THAT* F A S T!

Question: As I'm still configuring this Ferrari, I sure could use the address to the page that gives the lastest quote on world markets, and the one giving the intra-day gold. Any assistance?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:57 - ID#288295)
cjs1_a & Vronsky - Gold for Oil story

Thanx guys for the links; I'll go back and re-read this stuff again. Fascinating.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 22:59 - ID#30116)
Can't wait till next week....
Hopefully, things will be working somewhat bettererr... Fifteen minutes to see a post is getting to be a bit mucho. Good night all...

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:04 - ID#348286)
Silverbaron: If we do not get back over 300. POG fairly quickly, many more teetering Gold miners will fall over for sure.
The story may already be over for Pegasus and im surprised its as high as it is.
Personally, I saw the cheapest prices in years for some interesting
Gold stocks with real assets in December, and I bit.
If we go to 250. then I overpaid, if we go to 330. them im laughing.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:05 - ID#398105)
LGB2 and Pegasus


Pegasus Gold Australia Pty Ltd are ROOTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Operational prblem, gold price is an excuse. Operation is on "care and maintenance" therefore operations problems CANNOT be solved. Bad management.

Unless Mt Todd is got "up and going", I cannot see any upside on the shares. Under the current scenario, after selling ALL assets, they will still owe US$2 per share.

Read all about it at:

Aye, Haggis

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:07 - ID#348286)
@Y2K Wakeup Call - "Is our nation ready for this millennium bug? Frankly no,"
January 3, 1998

U.S. not prepared for millennium bug - lawmaker

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - With two years to go, the United States is still unprepared to deal with the year 2000 computer bug that threatens to wreak havoc in everyday lives, a Republican congresswoman said Saturday.
 "Is our nation ready for this millennium bug? Frankly no," Rep. Connie Morella of Maryland said in the Republican's weekly radio address.
 "At their current pace, many federal agencies will simply not be ready for the new millennium," she said.
 Morella called on Clinton to use the "presidential bully pulpit" to spur the government and private sector to give the highest priority to addressing the Year 2000 problem.
 She said Clinton should issue an executive order to federal agencies, and appoint a senior administration official to direct efforts to correct the looming computer problem.
 "Time is running out. We are facing an unforgiving deadline," Morella said.
 Unless corrected, computers will read the year 2000 as 1900 and could affect many areas such as the air traffic control systems, veterans' benefits, home security systems and building elevators, she said.
 "The consequences could be catastrophic, rendering useless much of the nation's date-sensitive computer data," Morella said.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:10 - ID#162148)
panda: Another amusing thing is that, when the Kennedys get in trouble, they never hire a lawyer from any of the "protected" groups under EEO laws. They fill their political jobs with "affirmative action" hires, but when their own ass is in a sling they bring on a Roy Black.: ) Same thing applies to other liberals. Klinton has NOTHING but women and minorities in ALL the top lawyer jobs in the Justice Dept. But all two dozen or so lawyers working to keep him out of the pokey and on AF One are from the "Unprotested" group: )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:11 - ID#189273)
@Golden Cheesehead
What'd ya mean "War cycle" in #19? Heard of lots of cycles but not that one.

By the way, heard on the news yesterday that some banks are hitting the 2000 problem already with credit cards that their software reads as expired. the 00 on the expiration date is being interpreted as 1900. Here we go!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:15 - ID#348286)
@But, But, But, But Camdessus told us 2 weeks ago it was resolved? ? ? `~ Scratches his head ~~
"The situation has not settled down as one might have hoped,"

January 3, 1998

CHICAGO ( Reuters ) - Financial turbulence in Asia is likely to continue for some time before markets eventually settle down, the International Monetary Fund's chief economist said Saturday.
 "It takes a while for things to settle. Hopefully we will in the initial weeks of this year begin to see some evidence that the amplitude of these fluctuations is beginning to come down," Michael Mussa told reporters during an economic conference here.
 "But there is going to be turbulence for some time," he added.
 Asia has been hit by a financial crisis that roiled markets throughout the region and in much of the rest of the world. Three of the hardest-hit countries -- Indonesia, Thailand and South Korea -- were forced to seek multibillion dollar bailout loans from the international community.
 "The situation has not settled down as one might have hoped," Mussa said. "The markets keep bouncing around, but fortunately, they sometimes bounce up now as well as down."
 International lenders ten days ago decided to speed payments of $10 billion to Seoul by early January after announcement of a nearly $60 billion rescue package last month failed to calm financial markets.
 Mussa also said the Japanese government had taken a step in the right direction when it announced a series of tax cuts late last year designed to help prevent its economy from falling into a recession amid the region's deepening gloom.
 But he added that those measures alone were unlikely to do the trick. "One should not expect miracles from a measure of modest proportions," Mussa said.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:16 - ID#227238)
ROR: Yer absolutely incorrible. The congnitive dissonance is fairly screaming at you ..... and yet, you pay it no mind. Ah well, what the hell. You've been on that kick from the very beginning and have every right to your opinion. ..... Even if it is misguided. ( grin thing )

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:21 - ID#398105)
Studio.R and tolerant1...............

Maybe Camdessus strangled him!!!!!!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:24 - ID#255284)
Living with the shades pulled down
Panda: Hey, you log off and our speed improves! What you using to access a Sinclair ZX80? Actually, is just Colin's mirror server not used to kitco volumes.

Reading Peutz 12:28 brought to mind this passage

From The Fountainhead Ayn Rand

and we must consider, Austen Heller was saying unemotionally, that since - unfortunately - we are forced to live together, the most important thing for us to remember is that the only way in which we can have any law at all is to have as little of it as possible. I see no ethical standard by which to measure the whole unethical conception of a State, except in the amount of time, of thought, of money, of effort and of obedience, which a society extorts from it every member. Its value and its civilisation are in inverse ratio to that extortion. There is no conceivable law by which a man can be forced to work in any terms except those he chooses."

And now who is picking up the Bill for Korean Irrational Exuberence? Taxpayers in the West. Yup, just like USofA, NZ is "Giving" $ to the IMF. Of course, many of our exporters are owed $ by Korean companies, they'll no doubt be paid a penny in the pound, but it's NZ taxpayers money anyway.

What's the definition of a free market again? Looks like a hand-out whichever angle you view it. We are feeding the fetid begging hand of corruption.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:24 - ID#247273)
Puetz posting on Greenspan
I appreciate the fact the Mr. Greenspan was once an idealist, as were many, who in their youthful irrational exuberance lofted toward high ideals, personal achievement and triumph, only to have their inflated ego bubbles burst by the practicality and reality of the day to day world. And yes, even to become minions of the government. And one day, yes, they, too, will retire with comfortable recompense for that servitude, only to try to recant and recapture from their comfortable chairs some of the idealism of youth, and say they were just making a living.
I believe that you are as you live, and that Mr. Greenspan's actions will live well beyond any statements unsupported by actions. These are the unfortunate dilemmas of idealism, and the price that must be paid, as Ayn Rand so eloquently described in her writings.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:24 - ID#227238)
Panda: It ocurred to me later that, in addition to the laws of physics, the Kennedys are also not immune to the laws of natural selection. ...... Go mother nature! ....... Trouble is they can whelp 'em faster than familial stupidity can knock 'em off. The Kenendys need to be introduced to a new activity which raises the rate of attrition.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:29 - ID#227238)
Oldman: Better save yer breath. The blinding glare of the media pronounced Kennedy haloes blinds all but the most dedicated realists.

If boobus americanus did not royalty, what purpose would be served by professional athletes, movie stars and the Kenedy Camelot Comedies????

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:34 - ID#26669)
Why not make money on the y2k glitch??
O.k., guys, what are the names of some big data recovery companies which will make big bucks putting the pieces back together?

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:42 - ID#288155)
MoReGoLd (@Well Thought Out Analysis)
There is no more formidable combination than insight and wit!
An enjoyable read, from which one gains knowledge. Thank you!

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:43 - ID#255284)
Glad I'm not a Kennedy
Like Basejumping or Mountainclimbing?
BTW Fishing has the highest fatality rate for any sport down here.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:54 - ID#35767)
The statements about the family on this site are distasteful and out of place. They have had some problems with a few ( as with any huge American Family ) but on the whole have provided great service to the disabled, downtrodden and middle class. Get off your rich ass perch and start working like the Kennedys have to help the average person and this country such as work to lower payroll taxes on the workers and raise it on those who have abundance. At least none of the Kennedys served divorce papers on their wife while she was in the hospital with cancer as Newt did. Or pulled a Bobbie Dole Divorce or a Jimmy Swaggert for that matter. The Kennedys as a whole are saints next to the foregoing and most anti American hypocrites.

(Sat Jan 03 1998 23:59 - ID#344210)
y2k company

Try your DD on TTN. I'm not finished, but so far this stock is looking better and better.