Ted -

I agree with you on most points of your Tue Jan 20 1998 00:58. I do draw some different conclusions though. Perhaps the huge sales have not been covered because the general feeling is gold will go lower. One thing is for sure, the big rally, when it comes, will start with a vicious round of short covering. It is true that the gold industry seems to be the only industry in the world that shoots itself in the foot with this type of forward sales. Producers can still deliver the metal against the contract. Doesn't matter what the price of gold is then, the transaction was negotiated months or years ago. That this profitability is not reflected in current mining stock prices is another example of why mining stocks do not fill the place in a portfolio that metals do. Thanks for your response, it made me think.

You are doing an exceptionally good job of buying the dips and selling the spikes. the charts look great. ( buying gold, selling US T- bonds )

However, given its current strategy in the gold market, you can be certain it will collapse as well...since the next time Barrick goes into the market to sell forward its gold, it might discover a gold price sitting at $150 an ounce. Will it make a profit then? ( If you think I am exaggerating or hallucinating, then conduct a poll of gold producers and find out how many of them ever imagined gold selling at LESS than 300 an ounce!! )

Good management, my ass... a good gold manager would take actions that benefit BOTH THE COMPANY AND THE PRODUCT/COMMODITY SOLD. Skunk's heavy forward sales at $410 have undeniably hurt the commodity and the entire industry.

Selby- Some info - - Dec 19 - xau closed 71.22 - - - Jan 16 - xau closed 71.82 both expired worthless in time. Anybody make any money but the sellers of both call and puts.To play the game beware the floor of shame.Any wonder key xau stocks fell today?

If I am reading this right, what mines are left will have to be in concert with the government. Will some one eloborate on this please?

"Return to the pure gold ( silver ) coins as exclusive means
of exchange is unrealistic. Also don't forget about credit
cards, which play a tremendous role of ecomony stimulation."

I see no connection between your creditworthiness and your means of accessing your credit and whether paper or metal coin is used as the unit of exchange and account.


"If you think I'm not honest, it's fine with me."

I think you want something for nothing or at most 20% .
"20% looks like a limit."

Farfel: I don't have the figures at my finger tips but I recall Barricks cost per oz will soon be well under 200 an oz- - by their calculations. I have no doubt that the price of gold will continue the 20 year drop but to think that this deal of selling 3 weeks worth of Barrick shares will contribute much to it is a non starter. Anyway that's my view.

Shlomo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Date: Tue Jan 20 1998 19:04
Shlomo ( earnings disappointments ) ID#288399:

IBM trading down 6 pts in after- hours trading. Enough to unnverve the bulls?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Where do you get this information from.
I have only seen that their trading was halted afterhours.
http://jdai.com/market/commentary.html
Also
IBM Profit Rose in Quarter, Close to Forecasts
http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/980120/business/stories/ibm_3.html

Barb -

Thanks for your concern. Cashiers checks and money orders are not treated as cash. The funds come from a bank, the record is already made. One cannot get the money into the bank to get the cashiers check or money order without bumping up against the reporting requirements. Travelers checks are treated as cash, but again, the funds must go through a financial institution to obtain, and then comes under the watchful eye.

I don't do forms, I trade metals, so I will defer to you on that. In case you didn't catch it, that was hostility right there. You profess congeniality but your words seem hollow. Don't know what you are trying to prove.

Regards.RJ

All I can tell you, my dear Selby...the company's actions send a major negative perception...it affects the company, the commodity, and the entire industry.

( Just to give you a more powerful example of the power of perception, in Oct. 97, when the stock market was falling like a rock, IBM stepped up to the plate and announced a multi- billion dollar share buyback. However, given that the market had already lost hundreds of billions of dollars in value that fateful day, IBM's announcement was a mere drop in the ocean of cumulative share value that day. Yet, that simple announcement reversed the perception of a collapsing stock market. PERCEPTION IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT IN MARKETS..and ABX screws the gold market again ) .

farfel: PERCEPTION lies in the beholder. I have no doubt that people who are hoping gold is going up soon will feel that this sale/buy back will hurt the price of gold. But if you believe that the price of gold is most likely to continue down then Munk has done for the TH shareholders the job he is pay to do. If you are a Barrick shareholder then having a buy back program in effect is great in the expected environment of continuing collapse of gold's price. Munk can also be perceived as believing gold and Barrick will continue to fall and he has helped both sets of share holders if he turns out to be right. So we can agree about the importance of PERCEPTION ( S )

You picked a wrong man, Mozel.

I'm a drinker and a shooter.

I also like to order goods by the phone, so
I need credit card.

I live in the socialist country called the U.S.A.
we got a lot of paper dollars in here.

You got not to like me for this...


Take care...

Dishonest Oris

Many Asian indices have made reversals late today.
After being up 1.5% some are now down 1.5%
Korea down 5.5% and still falling.

Something has spooked these markets.
As JIN said watch out for wave 3.

I have been surfing and cannot find any seriously bad news.

If the gold market were to go into bakwardation, Barrick
will be decimated.

for ROR

You got the wrong man too.

1. I am not affiliated to any political group.

Particularly the ANC. I like the UNpopular African

leaders. Like Jonas Savimbi. And Buthelezi. And

Chiluba.

2. I think Medicare sucks - People should be free and

take responsibility for themselves - not each other-

without a do- good government official with his own

agenda in the middle.

3. Blacks have got to WORK for their share of the "pie".

It cant be handed to them. Affirmative action here is

already starting to fail. RSA is ONLY 75% Black - Of

that 75% maybe 1/3 do not like the ANC AT ALL. They are

in favour of Butelezi's Inkatha party. The Cape

is only about 35- 40% Black. The ANC does not control

the Cape. The ANC does not control Natal. The ANC

does not control the press.

4. People worry about WHITES when Mandela goes. What

crap. They should worry about the ANC when Mandela

goes. His ex buddies were Mugabe and jail bird Kuanda

( who the foreign press has decided is a "victim' ) .

Mugabe is experiencing a popular revolt and must be

wondering if he'll wind up like his hero, Carcescu.

The Blacks dont buy his attempts to lay blame for ZIM

disgusting failure on the few remaining Whites there.

Mandela's successor Mbeki is good at Xhosa politics,

but not much else. He has little stature IMHO.

5. Mandela has stature and can keep his zip closed.

So he's better than Clinton. But he's not smart and

is turning into a crotchety old fart that cant keep his

mouth shut and is making a habit of bad decisions.

6. Regarding your Ethyopians- Mandela tells people

what they want to hear = he's good at that. He told

them WHAT they wanted to hear. AND since you are

a Gephardt type- they told you what you wanted to

hear.

7. My forecast for RSA is growth - privatization-

decentralization - fragmentation - progressively

weaker central government.

8. I think I have not told you what you wanted to hear.

But then I'm not an Ethyopian - Sorry about that.

Isure:
If the FED document is correct, then silver and the platinum group metals would be a good investment choice. If the gov't sells it's gold, closing down mines in the process, the throw- away metals will benefit because of the lack of production of gold. I only read the abstract, but intend on reading the whole document. I would suggest everyone else do the same. Buy platinum and silver...

I think you should sell any ABX you might own, for your own
piece of mind. Lighten up, you'll live longer!

Asia is getting slammed again. One thing I didn't understand was why the PPT, Rubin, etc. used what seemed to me to be overkill in pushing the Asian markets up a few weeks ago. It looked like the major indexes were given a very strong push to send the indexes up before the effort ran out of steam.

I didn't think much more about it until tonight. I think there was a finite amount of "help" Clinton could provide without Congressional oversight and this may have been used up.

Did anybody else get the feeling that the Asian recovery was bit overdone as if they were trying to throw everything they had at these markets before somebody pulled the plug?

If Asia continues to slide this could be a sign that for the time being there won't be the type of US cash infusions we've seen in the last few weeks. Whatever the case, it won't take very much longer to test this theory.

Re: PREMEDITATED JUSTIFIED HOMICIDE
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
STUDIO, BIG TIME TOM, JOHN DISNEY, ORIS, :

I just read your concerned posts about me yesterday, see below.
I would like to inform you that my husband
had returned home last night, healthy and VERY happy.

He had assured me that ALL his business trip
was tax deductible.
= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Mon Jan 19 1998 22:14
Ziva
( glenn....20:41 ) ID#302251:
This time, 400 will just be the beginning.
The problem is no Kitcoits will believe us this time.

Do you remember how wonderfully bullish you used to be,
all the way down from 395 to 360
and than you left us.

Anyway, I M happy 2 C U back.

Looking at the world around us,
I am desperately looking for any signs
that OLDMAN is right,
That GOLD is going to 250.......
Could not find anything!!!!!!

If it will ever be at 250,
because of the current GOLD manipulations,
it will be for a short spike only, IMVHO,
just to make OLDMAN happy.........

OK,
I have to leave you now,
My husband is returning from his
"business trip" with his secretary tonight,
and,,,
am I preparing a surprise for him....

Date: Mon Jan 19 1998 23:09
STUDIO.R
( How 'bout Ziva's 20:41? ) ID#93232:
Check the last paragraph out....take a print...
take fingerprints...motive is there....
Justified homocide...except it was premeditated.
I don't know nuthin'. Remove the post, Bart.


Date: Mon Jan 19 1998 23:36
STUDIO.R
( @refer... ) ID#93232:
Sounded like she was goin' to blow her old man away.
Eeeeeeekkkk!
I don't know nuthin'.
away! studiopolousseenospeaknohearno

Date: Tue Jan 20 1998 00:05
Big Time Tom
( Ziva's surprise ) ID#212320:

Hi Ziva. You wrote: "My husband is returning from his
'business trip' with his secretary tonight,
and am I preparing a surprise for him...."

Though it perhaps has nothing to do with gold,
this surely is of general interest.
You will let us know what happens,
won't you?

- Tom


Date: Tue Jan 20 1998 00:29
John Disney__A
( You need a break ) ID#24135:

For Ziva -
I think you need a vacation - - Visit RSA Now -
Put all this behind you. Fax jdisney@mweb.co.za



Date: Tue Jan 20 1998 00:35
oris
( Ziva ) ID#238422:

Ziva, in regard to surprise for your husband...
What caliber is it?



Date: Tue Jan 20 1998 00:42
Barb Hughes
( THE ZIVA SOAP ) ID#20785:

Maybe Ziva will bobit!!!!ohnoohno@@@###***oweech!



Date: Tue Jan 20 1998 00:45
oris
( Barb Hughes ) ID#238422:

Barb, bobit requires a lot of nerve.
Ziva is just a goldbug...


******************************************
*
*
And if you missed my posts yesterday:


20:14

http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980118.201443.zivaeeeee.htm


20:35

http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980118.203559.zivaeeeee.htm


00:07...this morning

http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980119.000735.zivaeeeee.htm

cry and moan, try to be philosophical, make excuses and try to justify, but History does repeat itself, What goes around- comes around, ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Everything runs in cycles and we live and run in a circle...

The big prediction day of the Astrological Investor is almost
upon us. Maybe that is what Munk saw coming! Just kiddin guys.

farfel: To put this discussion in a context: I bought of Munk's Clairtone speakers from Mad Man Muntz on Dufferin Street in Toronto about 1967 and installed them in my new 1966 VW Bug ( $1625 ) . I threw out the pair of speakers about 3- 4 years ago.

Yes, I introduced the Global Intelligence website to our kitcoits.
I am very happy to see that some of us are already quoting it.
It is an excellent source of information.

The famed Washington Post journalist Carl Bernstein,
who exposed the Water- Gate affair,
said already in the seventies that our news media was controlled then
by about 400 CIA agents.
Many experts feel today that ALL the news Media
IS AND WAS controlled by the CIA
for the last 20 years, at least.

This is the reason for the meteoric success of ART BELL.
We can find the truth very fast on his programs.
In the case of the TWA- 800 for example,
Mr. Bells audience knew from the second day,
from a source WITHIN the FBI,
that the Airliner was shot down by a missile.
http://www.erols.com/igoddard/twa- fact.htm
You can listen to the whole interview with
Richard Hoagland ( scientific advisor to Walter Cronkite ) ,
in the Art Bell archives.

There are no secrets anymore,
it is all out there on the Internet....
http://www.aboveblack.com/

We are only limited by available time or incompetence.

Art Bell is now on over 400 stations !
If I dont have time to listen to his whole show daily,
I always make time to listen to the first 10 minutes,
when he reads the news, the REAL news.
Since his sources proved to be superb,
from within the establishment and the Military,
Mr. Bell has effectively replaced all the News Media
and the Scientific Community in America.
I have E- mail correspondence with 12 countries.
All of them, around the world, without exception,
listening daily to Art Bell.

Since the Water- Gate affair,
investigative Journalism has disappeared from America.
Most everything that you heard in the last 20 years,
was because someone paid to inform you,
THE WAY HE WANTS YOU TO BE INFORMED.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


Date: Tue Jan 20 1998 01:16
colleen
( Global Intelligence & Morning to you All! ) ID#33164:
Morning All-
Someone asked Sharefin about this:
I also subscribed and received this in
my mail this morning.

I think Ziva gave us this URL- Thank you Ziva!

To receive free daily Global Intelligence Updates
or Computer Security Alerts, sign up on the web at
http://www.stratfor.com/mail/, or send your name,
organization, position, mailing address, phone
number, and e- mail address to info@stratfor.com

John D- Morning to you!
Missed out quite a bit of Kitco,
but have seen some great posts from you
on our beautiful RSA. Top form. Take care.

15:20 ET ******

INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS MACHINES CORP. ( IBM ) 108 1/8 +3 1/8. Ahead of its 4Q earnings results, shares of leading computer maker, software and systems concern are trading higher on the belief that the company will not have a problem matching Wall Street expectations this evening.
The company has regained the twinkle in most investors eyes and after recording six consecutive periods in which they have matched or exceeded market expectations, Big Blue is again expected to deliver positive results in the quarter ended in December.

According to First Call, IBM is expected to have earned $2.15 a share, up from $1.97 a share in the year- ago period on revenues of $23.14 billion, led again by a strong performance from its computer services unit which has been growing at a 20% clip for the past several years. While IBM is expected to have encountered some problems in Asia, like is the case with most other computer companies, Europe and North America are expected to have made- up for any shortfall in the Far East. Nonetheless, just as much as the numbers will be scrutinized this evening for its past performance, so will be the comments and guidance that IBM provides about its future quarters. The comments the company makes at its conference call will be critical in providing further support for the tech sector which remains vulnerable to more chaos from Asia. So far, it has been a decent quarter for tech stocks earnings, given the correction that has already taken place in many of these issues. Still two of the highly followed issues have yet to report, i.e., Microsoft and Compaq, and they too will set the tone for the market. By the end of the week, investors should have a better idea just how much of an impact Asia has had in dragging earnings and revenues down from the rapid pace of previous quarters.

AFTER THE CLOSE******

International Business Machines ( IBM ) 107 11/16 +2 11/16: Big Blue posts a 4Q net of $2.11 a diluted share, four cents below market consensus, vs year- ago net of $1.93 a share; revenues rose 2.5% to $23.72 bln.....

Komag Inc ( KMAG ) 15 1/4 +15/16: manufacturer of thin film media disks reports 4th qtr net of $0.02 a share, down sharply from yr- ago net of $0.16. Wall Street analysts were forecasting earnings of $0.07 a share for the qtr....

QUALCOMM Inc ( QCOM ) 47 1/2 +1 1/2: - - CORRECTION- - developer of digital wireless technology products reports 1st qtr operating net of $0.58 a share, eight cents ahead of the First Call mean estimate and up sharply from yr- ago's $0.13. Revenues rose 102% to $785 mln...

Bay Networks Inc. ( BAY ) 29 7/16 +1 5/16: networking concern posts a fiscal 2Q net of $0.28 a share, two cents better than the First Call estimate, vs year- ago loss of $0.90 a share; revenues rose 25.3% to $644.9 mln; sees sequential growth being maintained over the next couple of quarters.....

Ascend Communications ( ASND ) 30 3/4 +11/16: networking products maker reports 4th qtr diluted earnings of $0.24 a share, 2 cents better than analysts were expecting, though down from yr- ago's $0.32....

Citrix Systems Inc ( CTXS ) 77 3/4 +4 1/4: supplier of multi- user application server products reports another strong qtr. For the period, earnings rose from $0.24 a share to $0.50, while revenues increased 176% to $43 mln. Analysts were anticipating earnings of $0.46 a share....

For Isure -

I may be wrong but I think that the paper you have

uncorvered surfaced about 6 months and was a discussion

paper thing put together by some guys who were trying

to make points. I think all that info is well and truly

in the market. Please tell me if Im wrong.

To Oris

Did I tell you I saw a UFO once - I saw it but I dont

believe it. I must be a looney tune

And before you spread your ignorance all around the world
via this websit, YOU BETTER DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST !!!
http://tribune- review.com/ruddy/120397.html
*
*
*
Date: Tue Jan 20 1998 01:20
AYORK
( @Tzadeak ) ID#20167:

You make a good point about the conference, But
I have never witnessed AG getting involved in
anything political. There is always an ongoing
sucking- up to the black community by politicians,
but never by the Federal Reserve.

Dick Gregory, a black leftist activist went on a
hunger strike over the Ron Brown affair and many
others have been demonstrating in public.
Only time will tell. Lets wait and see what
happens to the Ron Brown case, but I remain a skeptic.

John, E- mail works just fine.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I made a little research today, regarding
the price of gold in the near term. Used
whatever was available at hand. Available
was some kind of speeds and feeds chart
for cutting aluminum alloy T2024 with
carbide inserts from Sandvik Coromant.

Anyway, results were encouraging - gold
should break above $300/oz until the end
of this month.

If this works, will order more literature
from Sandvik....I'm kind of trusting Sweds,
they produce good vodka...

Good night...

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue Jan 20 1998 01:51
aurator
( Happy New Year ) ID#257148:
JIN
Good to see you post again.
Best wishes to you. You say Hard Times ahead.
I am afraid you're right.
We get "Good Asian News" last couple of days in the papers here,
make it sound like all is OK and fine now.
Also seen TV news of Bangkok protests getting more aggressive.
Are you able to access kitco?
Did you get to Kathmandu? ( Long time since I was there! )
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
*
*
*
JIN: VERY HAPPY TO SEE YOU BACK
We need your input now more than ever.

AURATOR: I was too in Katmandu in 1984.
My WONDERFUL husband and I climbed Mt.Everest to 18000 ft.
Did you go to the monastery next to Namche- Bazar
to view the skull of the Yeti ?

Ziva: Darlin'. We're waitin', breathlessly, to hear about the surprise....... and you offer a posting history. History we can read anytime. Please forgive our vicarious interest in the matter but, the potentially gory details of a messy domestic bloodletting on the part of one of our own, is not a common occurence. I'm sure you understand. ...... So what happened already????

S. Korea seen rejecting large bond deal - bankers
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980120/s_korea_se_1.html

Japan to do utmost to stick with fiscal reform- MOF
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980120/japan_to_d_1.html

IMF tackling Indonesian bank reform, corporate debt
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980120/asia_usa_i_1.html

HK's Hang Seng Index loses ground in early trade
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980120/hk_s_hang__1.html

Indonesia woes darken Asian economic optimism
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980120/markets_as_4.html

Japan economy still stalling- - MOF report
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980120/japan_econ_1.html

S.Korea Samsung head to sell assets, help workers
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980120/s_korea_sa_1.html

MOF urges careful review on Jpn deposit insurance
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980120/mof_urges__1.html

Cohen says Indonesia's Suharto in good health
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980120/indonesia__2.html

LDP's Kato opposes large, permanent tax cut- Jiji
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980120/ldp_s_kato_1.html

Ziva, did you get rid of the gun?

Tapes exist showing WH intern had an affair with Clinton and Clinton asked her to deny it per Wash. Post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a69496.htm

Ziva, I appreciate your posts. BTW, the Philippine News last night reported a Bobbit case right after I read your mysterious post. My wife has a lot of Spanish blood like Lorena so I'm a very careful husband.

John, any UFO you may see is
a transport full of honest goldbugs
trying to escape this mess on the Earth...

Ziva: I may be wrong but I think Dick Gregory is probably the only person in the world to build a career around anorexia. ....... "Don't try this at home kiddies. This man is a professional anorexic."

Recommendation from Mechanical Engineer:

If you have a reason to believe that "bobbit" is

coming, then make sure that all kitchen knifes

are dull or locked or at least sterilized...

Wednesday January 21, 12:43 am Eastern Time

Asia resumes mantle of gloom as rupiah crashes
( Recasts, updates market quotes )

By Sarah Davison

HONG KONG, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - Indonesia's battered rupiah dragged most Asia markets back into a quagmire on Wednesday.

Strength in Tokyo and New York failed to spill over to the rest of Asia, where nearly every market reacted badly to an early session plunge in the rupiah to 12,000 to the U.S. dollar.

But the rest of Asia continued to suffer, with the Malaysian ringgit, the Singapore dollar, the Philippine peso and the Thai baht all
weaker.

In South Korea, stocks sank more than five percent as foreign interest dried up and locals took profits. The won followed suit, suffering from the lack of foreign interest.

Bankers in New York said overnight that efforts to restructure South Korea's debt burden in New York may have grown more difficult with the country expected to reject any proposal to raise money through a large bond offering.
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/markets_as_1.html

HighRise

Isure,
It seems too simple to observe that the first release of this Federal Reserve research report was on 4- 22- 97, about the time the Gold market started its sustained down turn. The final version was released on 6- 4- 97. This is the first I have heard of this report. I have been lurking since about July. Has the issue of this report already been discussed ? I wonder if this is a case of sell the rumor ( report ) , buy the news ( after the price has hit 30 year lows ) . I'm still a devout GB, but this document scares me ! I guess I should buy some more ABX calls !

Ziva,

I would be very interested in hearing more of your 1984 trek to just beyond Base Camp? To the foot of the Khumbu Icefall? I have a project in which Everest may play a role. I met Ed Viesters last month and saw some pictures of his 96 and 97 expeditions. NOVA will be broadcasting the results and film of the May, 97 expedition in which cognitive tests were given to Ed and David Breashears all the way up. A transcript of the summit broadcast can be found here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/everest/team/archivetrans.html

I am rjd@pacbell.net

There are times when words must be treated gently.

Oris: Chain mail shorts 'n matching suspenders, ain't a bad idea either.

Thanks Ziva

Brilliant analysis, thanks

Hi Colleen

Thanks

to hear what Bill Siedman has to say this coming thursday.

Management theory guru Peter Drucker says that modern

government can do only two things well: wage war and

inflate the currency.

Nixon: "Drucker says that modern government can do

only two things well: wage war and inflate the currency.

It's the aim of this administration to prove Mr. Drucker

wrong."

( ...with respects to goldfevr )

The poor are about to be stripped of their life savings and all of the blame will be placed on the shoulders of the Mutual Fund Industry. Paper is moving from strong hands to weak and the Governments around the World think they have an answer to this Bubble. As goldbugs we have a tendancy to watch every move gold makes on a minute by minute basis and that often distorts our views, so sit back relax as we all have front row seats to what promises to be an explosive move second to none!

Why didn't LGB add you to his "Karlito's Enemies List" in his Norman Bates- like attack today? Weren't you going to eat Karlito's ear or something? Isn't there an old saying, "don't insult someone's wife?"

Seems that a FED Commisioned report suggesting we ( the USof A ) sell our gold reserve surfaced around here some months ago. It seems to be well discounted after the RBA and Argentine sales and more importantly the Swiss - post referendum- sales.

Dave, I'm upset on the subject on not being on the list.
I posted this question to LGB, but I had no answer from him...
I wanted to eat Karlito's tongue...I called Karlito
Pussy Communist... I called him BullSh*ter... I don't know
why...I really hoped to be on the list...You got accused
and me not...Where is justice?!? Where is logic?!

I think there is a conspiracy against me .....

A guy who claimed to be posting from Cuba tryed to infest the site and failed.........Anyone remember his name?

Ziva,

Namaste!Please send the global intel address,thanks!

THANYBOCHE - is the greatest tibetan monastery in the world.With the great grand himalaya snow peak behind,the fresh air,the landscapes,the sherpas.Hope you did'nt missed GOKYO LAKES AND KALAPATAR TOO!?NAMCHE BAZAAR is nice too with the atmosphere weekday bazaar.YAKS,TIBETAN BUTTERS,FOX SKINS,PRECIOUS STONESall smuggled through the edge of the himalaya.You can find some low quality gold too....NO PREMIUM,huh!

thanks..!jin
( cssam@pl.jaring.my )

"You picked a wrong man, Mozel." Sorry to hear that.
"I'm a drinker and a shooter." No doubt.
"I also like to order goods by the phone, so
I need credit card." I explained that you can debit your gold account electronically as best I could. The point is who are you borrowing from and what are you borrowing. Too bad there is no Russian proverb like "It is foolish to borrow from your enemy" which I might resort to for further persuasion.
"I live in the socialist country called the U.S.A.
we got a lot of paper dollars in here." You betcha'.
"You got not to like me for this... " What's not to like ?
"Take care... " You, too. Don't take no wooden nickels.
Dishonest Oris - Every man to his own.

Subject:
Indonesia/Papua New Guinea
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:20:12 - 0600 ( CST )
From:
"STRATFOR Systems Inc." alert@stratfor.com
To:
ZIVA


______________________________

Stratfor's SHREDDER software:
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Global Intelligence Update
Red Alert
January 21, 1998

Refugees Spark Worries of Rebel Activity in Irian Jaya

The Port Moresby newspaper "The National" reported on Monday that
approximately 300 Irian Jayan refugees have crossed the border from
Indonesia since January 16, and have begun settling in the Komovai area of
Papua New Guinea ( PNG ) . According to the newspaper, the Governor of
Western PNG requested that national Defense Force troops be flown into the
area to assist in controlling the influx, as the refugees reportedly are
armed with "high- powered weapons." Though available information was
limited, The National cited local sources as stating the refugees "could be
fleeing from a build- up of rebel activities at the border."

Illegal border crossings between Irian Jaya and Papua New Guinea are rather
common, but local authorities expressed concern over the uncommon presence,
in this case, of high- powered weapons. On January 13, another Irian Jayan
was convicted in Daru, PNG, for possessing ammunition and two high- powered
guns, described by authorities as "the latest brands and extremely
dangerous." A further point of concern is the suggestion that rebel
activity may be heating up in Irian Jaya. There have been sporadic rebel
attacks in Irian Jaya and along the border since the beginning of the year,
including an attack on a lighthouse that resulted in the capture in PNG of
a leader of the Free Papuan Movement, Simon Allom.

While these reports of activities in Irian Jaya do not warrant waving flags
of alarm quite yet, they do bear monitoring. With the Suharto regime
preoccupied with the Asian financial crisis, the Free Papua Movement may
take the opportunity to escalate their 29 year fight for independence from
Indonesia. This would not only further destabilize Indonesia, but would
also threaten foreign mining and resource companies operating in Irian
Jaya. In the extreme case of fighting spilling over the border, the
situation could potentially involve Australia, which is committed to
defending the security of Papua New Guinea.

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Been there. Done that.

Yes, we arrived at the foot of Khumbu Icefall,
I believe that it was generally called Mt Everest Base Camp.

At that point, around 18000 ft my brain begun to behave funny
because of lack of oxygen.
My husband who was familiar with this problem,
was watching me like a hawk for the first signs of oxygen depravation,
and he forced me to run down the mountain.

We had no intention to go over 18000 ft,
because the Nepali Government requested then a charge of US$3000 EACH.
I was told this went directly to the pocket of the brother of the king,
who was 'responsible' over tourism.

While mulling over the latest from Peter Munk .... and company, it occured to me that there is probably a higher propensity among NA mining execs to cozy up to banks, bankers and govts of all stripes. They are, after all, products of what Mozel has come to call the "corporate/governmental model" of socialism.

If that it is a fair characterization, perhaps it is time to pay more - and serious - attention to John Disney's area of the world. After all, the SA miners have to earn a living grubbing for gold. They don't have a mighty profitable real estate investment operation to fall back on when the mining is tough.

After decades of western sanctions, any cordial relations between SA miners and western banks, has probably worn a bit thread bare through long disuse and likely will not be a serious threat for some time into the future.

All of this was put into the context of today's action in the mining stocks. While the NA mines were being taught another lesson in the game of "drop the soap", the list of SA mines on my screen was about 50% green, 25% unchanged and 25% down a bit.

Given John's input on reserves, cost of production - for which NA mines cover with accounting "standards" - and occasional actual, real, profits; why the hell are we discussing NA stocks at all??? I own some SA stocks and as things progress, I will probably add to them as the NAs are heaved over the side.

End of rant.

I have just now seen your name. I would like to tell you that I am glad to see your post.

You have friends here.

Socialism sucks!

T1: I've noticed that.

Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 01:12
Earl ( So what happened already? ) ID#227238:
Ziva: Darlin'. We're waitin', breathlessly, to hear about the surprise....... and
you offer a posting history. History we can read anytime. Please forgive
our vicarious interest in the matter but, the potentially gory details of a
messy domestic bloodletting on the part of one of our own, is not a
common occurence. I'm sure you understand. ...... So what happened
already????


*******************************************************************

EARL MY DARLING,

What are you so excited about?
So my husband had a little excitment
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT ???
As long as it is tax deductible ?

He is a wonderful person.
In his place, wouldn't you do the same ?

DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT MEN BEHAVE
A "LITTLE" DIFFERENT THAN WOMEN ?
I know little about Gold
but I know something about men.

Earl, good husbands are not easy to find,
especially when someone is Jewish.
So, I am a very lucky woman.


BTW: I remember what you told us about your wife last year,
I will not repeat it here.

*****************************************

A shot of tequila to ya. A privileged for me. Thank you.

Mozel: Keep up the good fight. Not every goldbug knows why he is. ....mores the pity.

S& P 500 MAR98 982.00 - 320
NSDQ100 MAR98 1027.00 - 900

Good Night All
HighRise

PS: There is a Very Lucky Husband out there!
God Bless the Ladies.

Ziva: My use of the term "Darlin'" was merely a rhetorical familiarity. A casual, conversational construct of sorts. OTOH, your application of essentially the same term ..... got my attention. Reading further, it was also painful to realize that we each have shortcoming. That is, that your memory is too long and my tongue is too loose. ..... More deadly for me though, I fear. ...... Away to reconcile the past.

YOU HAVE BEEN CONTRIBUTING A LOT TO THIS GROUP.
I always enjoyed reading your posts.

Looking forward to a lot more.......

100 tonne is reputed to be the amount of gold turned in by Koreans, this equals about 3.2 million ounces or 100 million grams. An asute poster at Kitco pointed out that what was being turned in by Koreans were 3+ gram items ( called ?, sorryv its late ) . This would indicate over 30 million transactions at a max turn in rate, but even one third that amount would be logistically impossible to conduct in such a short time frame.

Did you notice that I am NOT on the list.

How does that work ??

I love you too, Earl

Suppose you dont turn in 500 3+ gram items but 1.5kilo of family jewlry collected over past 2 centuries? More logical???

An ordinary well to do western family does not have 1.5 kilo to donate, but i have seen some pictures of Indian girls whose fathers were more likely village merchants than maharajas and they seemed to be able to do it ( dont know about Koreans )

How about 6 kilo family collection started during the days when Bernatz de Ventadorm was a young rascal roaming the earth in search of fair lasses.

Well, let's see. To get through the March 31 int'l reserve
requirements for the Japanese banks, they usually float the Nikkei
by strong- arming private sources of funding into the market long
enough to make'm look good. Maybe that's tapped out. So instead
this year the bank's property holdings will be counted as reserve
capital against loan loss. I guess that's the buildings they do
the banks' business in and the property it sits on to be counted
as loan loss reserves.

C U SOON IN RSA

Never knew him, who wes he?

Thank you for bringing us back to earth with your philosophical review of life. Munk may or may not know what he is doing with ABX but your comments really put it into perspective. I have been buying ABX stock for many a moon and intend to continue to hold as of now. ( And, yes, I do still have a profit in it - something I cannot say for a few other golds I hold, unfortunately. )

When I was a kid, friends would invite me to go pheasant hunting or duck hunting or dove hunting. What I noticed as they grabbed a few boxes of shotshells for the days hunt was their garage cabinets FULL of cases of shotshells. These were not wacko gun nuts nor survivalists. They were wealthy. No rushing around at the last minute to buy bullets for these folks. I am not wealthy and I don't have cabinets full of ammo, but I have enough for now. Maybe other goldbugs want a good supplier of ammo.

February gold up $1.70 despite renewed Asian turmoil. Didn't somebody on this forum predict earlier this evening that the Asians would push gold down $3.50 today? As the economists say if you must make short- term forecasts, do it often and you might be right half the time.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue Jan 20 1998 23:49
Preacher ( Ziva's reasons ) ID#227290:

Ziva,

Somehow I have missed it,
but am interested to hear a brief
( or more if you like )
relisting of the reasons you believe
gold will rise above $600 this year.

The Preacher
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
*
*
*
Dear Preacher,

You may have noticed that Bart in his great wisdom,
defined this discussion group: ...... for INVESTORS .

There is NO mention of ............INTELLIGENT investors !

This creates a GOLDEN opportunity for a simple woman like me
to squeeze my foot through the door
as long as I do not overdo it, and off the New- York GOLD trading hours.

My views are expressed VERY CLEARLY
via the website- links that I provided.
Mistakenly, I injected sometimes some indirect humor,
to keep this forum going ( my husband & secretary, etc. ) ,
unfortunately, some Kitcoits, dont get it.

I never said above 600, I said above 1000.

*
*
We are being slowly manipulated
towards WW3....around October this year.
Mike Sheller can guess the timing better than me.
The Arab world is cooking and CNN is NOT reporting.

This war will be between the us, Israel and the West
against the Arabs and China.
The excuses that they will give us are nonsense,
if you will study Mr. Netanyahu, you will understand everything.
At this moment, everything is already in place, war is UNAVOIDABLE,
AND WE ARE BEING LED AS SHEEP TO THE SLAUGHTER.

So, as I said: GOLD will go to the moon,
but for a very short time IMO.
Soon after, the devastation from the biological war will be so great,
that our lives will return to a very primitive stage.
80% loss of life is a figure often quoted in Intelligence circles.
If you will survive it, you will probably wish you were dead.
You may be happy to know that while you are dead,
our military will be OK.
The Pentagon announced last week that 1.4 million soldiers
are being immunized against bacteriological weapons.....
it is probably just a coincidence........

There are no secrets anymore, it is all on the Internet.
Any old lady in the bush, with just half a brain,
can find more RELIABLE information
than the President, the KGB, CIA, FBI,MI- 5,6,7,8,9 or anyone else.
If you will research the Internet thoroughly & meticulously,
you will find many sources from within the Military and the FBI.
After you study their 'reliability factor',
you may find out that the FBI has already caught seven Iraqi women
with biological canisters inside their v- - - - - .
If the FBI found seven,
dont you think that it just may be the tip of an iceberg ?
Just remember what happened at Tokyos subway.
Murphy Law always works, it is just a question of time.

OK, enough ...... doom and gloom,
Since you requested MORE of my opinions,
read this morning posts:


http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980121.005526.zivaeeeee.htm

http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980121.010012.zivaeeeee.htm

http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980121.004510.zivaeeeee.htm

I have a fishing trip on the Zambezi booked end- October. Should I cancel?

HELL NO !!!

PHEW!

We have been hearing this for years the sky is falling ( Chicken Little )
I pray to God you are wrong

Thankyou

Me too.

So how far will this run go???? $293+ and going.... Hopefully like that damn bunny........

BBML

I've decided to hang on to all of my bullion and stock when the rise occurs. I own a gas mask but after the war, whom do I sell my assets? Do you know of any "prepared" brokers?
Respectfully,
E.

It seems that my posts are effective.

ZIVA: You are the only one on this thread who makes Puetz sound like an optimist. I too believe that things are going to get a lot worse in the world, but do no accept your apocalyptic vision. The odds of it coming to pass are no more than one in a hundred.

PREDICTIONS ARE JUST AN INTELLECTUAL EXERCISE.

I see something coming,
and it is my responsibility to inform our Kitcoits.


If you found something, wouldn't you warn us ?
Or would you be hiding under your bed ?

I AM DEAD SERIOUS !!!

Last time is was ZERO,
now it is one.
YOU ARE GETTING BETTER ALL THE TIME.

We will see what you will say next month.
Yes, I said NEXT MONTH.

InNetanyahuwetrust.

even at the risk of sounding like a crackpot. I admire your fortitude and commend you on its' use. Your warning bears looking into. Thanx again.

Good Bye everybody.....for this morning.
I am leaving you now.

I have to clear this channel for GOLD discussions.

An interesting analysis of European CB gold policies. The author is by no means a roaring gold bull, but feels the bearish case has been overdone and bullion could rally to $320 before long.

http://www.gold.org/Pages/Home1.htm

THE MARKETS OUTLOOK FOR 1998

It's so ironic that we started 1997 with a comment on the Canadian and U.S. currencies, suggesting we watch these for first alert clues on the direction of their respective equity markets. True enough, but in the end it was the Asian currency markets that stole the global stage and kicked off major bear market in Asia. Looking back, we could have sold off all our gold stocks, back in May '96 for that matter, let alone last year, and opened up a short account. Fortunately our decision to get completely out of Indonesia last January, and into the Buffalo Hills diamond play in a big way in February, combined with diversifying into non- resource related situations like IGT Pharma, and others, partially counter balanced the drubbing the we've taken this past year in gold. But hindsight is cheap and lets look forward to what we can expect in the new year.
ASIAN MARKETS
For the moment anyway, the situation in Asia appears to have stabilized with the rolling over of short term debts to South Korean banks and corporations led by U.S. banks. However the situation is as least as serious as we guessed it was in our last issue.
We are witnessing currency and equity devaluations unheard of since the last Great Depression in the 1930's. It's a classic crisis of confidence not only in the currencies but in political leadership of these countries. Initial reaction from these autocrats was especially worrisome, ranging from complete denial ( blaming George Soros for their own overvalued currencies, corruption and cronyism ) to audacity ( "don't worry about reforms IMF, just send us the money" ) .
Coincidentally, elections held or about to be held in most of these countries will hold the key to the success or failure of reforms, and an end to the crisis. In any case we should expect to see double digit inflation and a sharp slowdown in growth or recessions in most of these countries this year, and social upheaval places like Indonesia, South Korea, China and others. Considering the region was responsible for 55% of world economic growth this past decade, this should have a strong impact on world trade and the threat of global deflation will continue this year.
As for the Dow, a large top appears to have formed around 8,200. Even if the index were to crack this level and make new highs, we can't imagine a fourth consecutive year of 20% gains for the Dow considering the impact the Asian slowdown will have on corporate earnings.
GOLD BULL MARKET ALREADY UNDERWAY IN ASIAN CURRENCIES
Gold enters the new year with several reasons to start getting us optimistic. For one, the price has already moved up sharply in terms of the Asian currencies. Since June, gold is up 95% in S. Korean won, and 75% in Thailand, with the bulk of these gains occurring in just three trading days in late October/early November. This should start occurring to investors exposed to other vulnerable currencies.
It has also occurred to me that depending on how far the crisis in Asia goes, it may only be a matter of time before the currencies of the countries bailing them out ( namely the G7 countries led by the U.S. ) start to resemble the currencies of the Asian countries. This, and or a combination of Japan starting to repatriate some of the U.S. bonds it holds could sooner or later hit - dare I say it - the Almighty U.S. dollar. Need I say what gold would do if the world were to be shocked by a weaker dollar?
Finally, sooner or later in the year, the countries involved with the crisis are going to start up the printing presses to print more currency to reflate their shattered economies. The first half of the crisis will be deflationary - part two will be inflationary, and a positive for gold longer term.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/us_can_rid_1.html
US can ride out Asia storm, no deflation- Camdessus

BRUSSELS, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - International Monetary Fund managing director Michel Camdessus said on Wednesday he reckoned the United States economy could withstand the after- shocks of the Asian economic crisis and there would be no risk of global deflation.

``I think, along with my colleagues from the IMF, that the American economy is perfectly able to absorb this ( Asia ) shock without a pronounced deflationary wave spreading through the world's economies,'' Camdessus told the European Parliament's development committee in Brussels.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

China set against yuan devaluation - Camdessus
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/china_set__1.html
BRUSSELS, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - International Monetary Fund managing director Michel Camdessus said on Wednesday he had been reassured during recent talks with Chinese officials that Beijing would not go down the path of competitive devaluation.

``The Chinese are absolutely determined to resist ( the devaluation ) temptation,'' Camdessus told the European Parliament's development committee in Brussels, when asked what he thought may be the effects of the Asian economic crisis on China.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/indonesia__5.html
FOCUS- Indonesian rupiah sinks to historic low
JAKARTA, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - The Indonesian rupiah hit a record low of 12,000 against the dollar on Wednesday, raising fears it might keep falling because there appeared to be no immediate solution to the growing demand for dollars.
``It's a vicious circle,'' one chief treasurer said. ``Local banks can't buy dollars now because they don't have credit lines. Without those lines, you cannot settle your deals.''
Currency dealers said that not only had many offshore- based banks abolished their credit lines to Indonesian banks, but Jakarta- based banks had cut lines among themselves.
According to new the memorandum of understanding between the IMF and Indonesia, the country's external debt stood at around $140 billion at the end of last year, or about two- thirds of gross domestic product ( GDP ) . Of the total, some $20 billion was short- term.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well good morning from the hinterland....here is my best thinking, for free:

Gold is currently not in the early stages of a bull market. Gold is currently not in the last stages of a bear market. Gold is now in a COW market.

Here is my reasoning: A cow doesn't move around much. A cow will eat everything green that you will feed it. A content cow will milk you of everything you own. A cow market will turn your brains to hamburger. A cow may give you a golden calf or it may need to go to the slaughter house. And if you hang around the cow much, you'll get crap all over yer boots.

And based on last night's postings...there's a lot of smelley boots in the garage this morning. It is obvious to me that our cow has a bad case of the "Mad Cow Blues".

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/safrica_go_1.html
S.Africa's Old Mutual says gold woes overdone

CAPE TOWN, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - Fear has weighed on the bullion price for months and caused the market to overlook the possibility of a supply squeeze on the metal, a gold analyst at South Africa's Old Mutual said on Wednesday.

``If the gold price goes to $250 ( an ounce ) no one will be surprised. But if it goes above $300 that will be a jolt...There are huge short positions in the market,'' said Georges Lequime, mining analyst at Old Mutual Asset Managers.

Lequime said several institutions had sold short since bullion fell below $400 an ounce, and the market could be in excess of 2,000 tonnes short, just below annual supply.

Gold tumbled to an 18- 1/2 year low on January 13 of $276.50 an ounce from a high at the beginning of 1997 of $363.40. It has since clawed back some ground to trade above $290.

``There is still a belief in certain quarters that gold production will increase in 1998...My figures tell me that gold production is decreasing and no new projects are coming on stream,'' Lequime told Reuters.

Lequime said bullion's tumble had forced mines to close and the postponement of several new projects, reducing the supply of gold from hedging to raise capital for those projects.

``The gold shares tend to lead the dollar gold price and some shares are up 25 percent so maybe the market is starting to turn,'' he said.

He said world demand for the metal was still strong, rising 16 percent last year, and forecast that demand would continue to climb, particularly in India, which buys a quarter of the 3,000 tonnes of world gold produced each year.

``The Anglo- Saxon world has got a very negative view in terms of gold. But the East has a very positive attitude.''

Lequime said the import surcharge on gold into India had been reduced as from the start of 1998, which should boost demand, particularly coupled with the lower bullion price.

The mining analyst said Europe could still upset the market, because a new breed of central banker, who had never experienced war or a currency crisis, was shrugging off the importance of holding gold reserves.

Lequime said the market was on tenterhooks to see how much gold the European Central Bank would hold after European economic and monetary union ( EMU ) .

``As soon as we get that figure it will take the uncertainty out of the market,'' he said.

Lequime said European central banks hold 17,000 tonnes of gold, but even if they sold a substantial portion of their reserves, hedge funds with short positions could snatch up the supply.

``What everybody overlooks on the central bank issue is that somebody must be buying the gold. Last year 14 countries were net sellers and 19 countries were net buyers,'' he said.

I have been on this forum, for a while, I was totally unaware of this report also. TO tell you the truth I find it hard to believe that no more concern has been shown from others here. One thing is for sure , if this market gives me half- a- chance I will get the hell out and find a new place to invest.

THIS BOY AIN'T THAT DUMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/moody_s_sa_1.html
Moody's says may not review Deutsche Bank rating
``I think it's wrong,'' he told Reuters in an interview, when asked about the speculation in European financial markets overnight.
``We did not put Deutsche Bank under review last week...so I don't think that would be the case ( now ) ,'' he added.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Japan mission seen suggesting new Indonesia ideas
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/japan_indo_1.html
Japan might support an appreciation of the yen to make the currency an anchor for Asia's financial stability - - a plan some economists said was implied in comments by a senior Finance Ministry official on Wednesday morning.

Vice Finance Minister for International Affairs Eisuke Sakakibara told Reuters that Japan's economic fundamentals were changing and Tokyo was seriously considering the possibility of intervention.

The Bank of Japan ( BOJ ) might soon buy the rupiah against the dollar to prop up the Indonesian unit after it hit a record 12,000 to the greenback, some economists said.

``Mr Sakakibara's comments may imply the possibility of BOJ intervention on the rupiah in the near future,'' Yamamura said.

The BOJ intervened in the foreign exchange market to buy the rupiah against the dollar shortly after the announcement of the first IMF- led Indonesia rescue package last October.

The intervention caught forex dealers off guard, albeit briefly, as it was the bank's first on behalf of an Asian currency.

SOROS KNOWS, BUT WONT TELL... About Gold & the Dollar

That Soros won't reveal more about his position on the fate of fiat currencies ( and thus his opinion on gold ) is significant. Something is undoubtedly up his sleeve as we have witnessed in his recent positioning in the silver market ( Apex ) as silver is due to skyrocket ( see Ted Butler's recent article ) . More than any other player in the market today, Soros's every move should be monitored. Given Soros's measurable success in currency markets, and given his alliance with the world's greatest and oldest market makers ( the Rothschilds ) , Soros is undoubtedly beginning to play part of his hand. These two players will undoubtedly be key market makers in resolving the war between fiat currencies ( the U.S. $ ) and GOLD.

To read the ALCHEMY OF FINANCIAL CHECKMATE - EPILOGUE report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

Looks like a 'White- out' folks.........

Earl:If I understand you correctly,you are a little down ABX~~~

Major trend changes take place when the unimaginable occurs. Right now we have 4 unimaginal possibilities. 1 ) The dollar falling sharply. After all, isn't it the only alternative for safety? 2 ) US interest rates rise sharply. 3 ) The price of oil rises sharply. After all, isn't the world awash in oil? 4 ) Inflation in the US takes off. After all, isn't the supply of cheap goods assured from Asia? ( Sorry Donald. ) Given the huge consensus that these are all unimaginable, I think it highly unlikely that they will all pan out.

I look for either of two unexpected flies in the ointment. One is politics intervening in Asia and the US. The other is that I believe labor shortages in the US are much worse than advertised. It wouldn't surprise me if by the end of this year we will see large segments of the US economy bidding for shares of labor rather than shares of market.

75% rise in Japan's bankruptcy figures

By RUSSELL SKELTON,
Tokyo,
Monday
Japan's stalled economy forced a record number of companies to collapse last year under a mountainous 14 trillion yen ( $A165 billion ) in liabilities.
Figures released today reveal that corporate bankruptcies jumped 75 per cent in 1997 to their highest level in 50 years. The total number of failures was almost double that of the 1990s post- bubble slump.
The new figures dramatically underline recent claims made by the Economic Planning Agency that the economy is in far worse shape than the economic statistics indicate.
They also point to a big surge in unemployment. An estimated 154,470 employees lost their jobs - the highest number in more than a decade.
The Prime Minister, Mr Ryutaro Hashimoto, confirmed today that the Government was now carefully considering a further range of "pump- priming" measures to boost demand.
Mr Hashimoto said he was determined to prevent the economic slowdown in Japan plunging the world into a global economic crisis and he said the Government stood ready to take whatever action was necessary.
The chief of the EPA, Mr Koji Omi, later confirmed that the Government was working on a package of measures.
Teikoku Databank, a private research agency, said that bankruptcies last year almost doubled the previous record year 1995. The number of companies with debts of 10 million yen or more jumped 112.5 per cent in 1997 to 16,365.
But the report warned that new economic initiatives taken by the Hashimoto Government - including the provision of public funds to bail out banks and financial institutions - would do little to improve business conditions this year.
In December bankruptcy liabilities reached a record 2.75 trillion yen - surpassing the previous record of 2.62 trillion yen set in April. The December figure represented a 319 per cent jump on December 1996. The high rate of failures would continue until March.
The report said sharp falls in currency rates and the collapse of export markets in South- East Asia would hit the economy.
The 1997 liability figures have been inflated by the failure of 10 big listed corporations including the Hokkaido Takushoku Bank, Japan's 10th largest bank; Sanyo Securities, the fourth largest securities company; and Yaohan Japan Corporation, a supermarket chain.
About 65 per cent of all the failures listed have been blamed on Japan's economy, which has been stalled since last April when the Government abolished income tax rebates and increased consumption taxes.
Out of 16,464 bankruptcies, 9970 were blamed on the economy, with companies hit by weak sales, accumulated losses and debts. There were 20 bankruptcies with debts exceeding 100 billion yen.
One of the biggest failures of 1997 was Crown Leasing Corporation, a financial house that went bankrupt in April with debts totaling 1.19 trillion yen, making it then the largest corporate failure in postwar Japan.
Others included the Hokkaido Takushoku Bank, which admitted to debts of 539.1 billion yen, and Sanyo Securities with debts of 373.6 billion yen. Bankruptcies in the construction sector totalled 5096 or about 40 per cent of the total.
Mr Hashimoto told a parliamentary committee that fiscal reforms were urgently needed to cut the deficit and plan for big changes in Japan's ageing population.
- with agencies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hi William, That growing veggies thing could never happen here
but just in case I'm going to hang onto the farm for a while yet.
Sounds like things are getting real desperate over there, its hard to imagine losing everthing almost over night, bet the bankers are doing ok.

It's ironic you say the veggie thing could never happen here. There is a remarkable book called Trends 2000 by Gerald Celente, founder of the Trends Research Institute. He has a very good track record at predicting trends. He predicts milions of lawns will be converted to gardens. He builds a good case. When I read his predeiction I wasn't surprised, I often thought this a real possibility.
- - - It's ironic you say the veggie thing could never happen here. There is a remarkable book called Trends 2000 by Gerald Celente, founder of the Trends Research Institute. - - -
I have not read his book ... but let me tell you what I foresee ..
- the polarization of income; the likes of which we have never seen before.
- people literally "returning ot the land" ... no other choice if one wants to survive.
- an entire new barter system evolving .... a goat for a 3 chickens.
- social unrest and then an increase in policing .... somebody has to keep the people in line.
The bottom line ... there will not be any need for most of us - we will be redundant in the scheme of things.
Sorry to be so pessimistic - but that is what I see.
Mark- - you are probably correct in some respect. I would recommend the book. The author does predict social unrest, but it is followed by a period of human kindness. Sort of a patrioric movement of unifying each other under the umbrella of our country, our land, it must work in harmony.
Hutch- - it will happen after or during the coming trade wars.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PM treads delicate path on bank rescue plan
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980120/world/wtokyo.html
Having decided to rescue its banking system, the Government of Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto is now grappling with the dilemmas which face every lender of last resort.

How much money will be needed? Who will get the money? Under what terms will the money be advanced? When will the money be paid? Dealing with these issues is proving far more complex and difficult than would normally be the case, because instead of just rescuing depositors, the Government is planning to invest taxpayers' money in troubled banks.

gold seems to be bullish 4 now, but has to break the resistance of 294 for its onward journey to possibily 300 and then 309.
any takers???????????????????

EB:

After a week of sun and fun in the Bahamas my addled brain was no match for a reinstallation of Linux software on my machine. As a result I managed to destroy most everything including my email repository. If you would be so kind as to resend your snail mail address I could complete our transaction. BBL.

Selby: They sure didn't work very long ( why didn't you try and get a refund? ) - - Away to scratch my head~~~~

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/interview__4.html
INTERVIEW- No Japan bank crisis from Asia - Moody's
TOKYO, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - Asia's financial turmoil is not expected to cause an immediate crisis for Japanese banks, Christopher Mahoney, managing director in charge of global banking at Moody's Investors Service, said on Wednesday.
``It does not appear to us to be a big deal in terms of global financial stability,'' he said in an interview in Tokyo.
Mahoney said Japanese banks' exposure to the Asian region at the end of 1996 appeared ``very low'' in comparison to the size of the banks' total problem loans.
`` ( The Asian crisis ) doesn't yet appear to be material for any American banks, and only potentially material for European banks,'' he added.
He said this was one of the main reasons that the Group of Seven ( G7 ) industrial nations and the International Monetary Fund ( IMF ) had been trying to persuade the Chinese government not to devalue the currency.
He added that the real aim of global financial authorities was to contain Asian problems in Asia, as there were clear concerns at Moody's and among investors about the financial health of Latin American nations and Russia.
``So if China holds the yuan and if things calm down here in Asia, that would be a big plus for Latin America and Russia,'' he said.

IBM 101 1/2 pre open from 107 11/16 yesterday.
Down 5.7%
Will this lean on the market?

This morning the US media Clinton apologists who usually ignore his indiscretions are all agape at the revelation that the Prez has been caught on tape advising his latest squeeze ( the 23- year old White House intern ) to lie if questioned about their affair. They are even seeing the pattern of behavior so obvious to the conservatives lo these many years, mentioning the broadening of Ken Starr's Whitewater probe and the Paula Jones depositions. Surprise, surprise!

The curent minor infraction of the law is a felony and could be grounds for impeachment. Even the pro- Clinton TV talking heads are using the "I" word. Shades of Nixon's tape problem which led to his departure...

So, from a practical standpoint, anybody know what happened to precious metals when Nixon was stoned by the villagers so many years ago? Does this set up the kind of uncertainty that prompts rallies in the PMs while undermining ( nice pun... ) the broader markets?

THE GOLDEN PARADOX: INDIA

WORLD GOLD COUNSEL Press Release:
- Dubai, 19 January 1998 -
Surge in Indian Gold Demand -
Demand for gold in India,
the world's largest gold- consuming
country, reached 737 tonnes in
1997, an increase of 229 tonnes or
45% over 1996 and a new all- time high.

INDIA IS CURRENTLY BUYING 1/3 OF WORLD'S GOLD MINE PRODUCTION!

India is HOT NEWS THIS MONTH! Various world sources have commented on the Indias Central Banks ( Reserve Bank of India - RBI ) decision to make GOLD an important part of its monetary system. Although international experts seemed overtly careful not to mention the term, it all smacks of a return to a GOLD STANDARD.

Although all will agree India it not one of the worlds financial powers, there are two factors which justify the RBIs decision to liberalize gold ownership. Firstly, it is by far the second most populous country in the world - about one billion - close on the heels of China. Secondly, India is the largest GOLD PURCHASER IN THE WORLD. Therefore, India asserting leadership in returning its monetary system to a GOLD RELATIONSHIP is understandable.

Some months ago GOLD- EAGLE posted a very interesting report by an international expert on the India scene. And in light of recent announcements, the essay garners new importance and relevance. Its title is THE GOLDEN PARADOX: INDIA.

Could India lead the world back to a GOLD STANDARD? To read the report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

Have just read Wayne Crimi's article on Gold recently posted on the net. He explains why Gold prices has been depressed. May worth your quick read.

http://members.aol.com/wcrimi/gold.html

Joberg gold index up about 0.8% . The fact that the SA golds now are acting better than the North Americans has bullish implications for the entire gold complex.

Seems to me this is 3 days in a row where the bull starts out charging hard,hope the resistance is weakening for a up side break out ,he haw,ridem Cowboy ( Go Broncos ) What was Gold at when Raiders won? )

I would just like to remind everyone that Gold and Silver really roared in the late 70's ... and I believe that a major reason was ... the perceived weakness of the then President ( Jimmy Carter ) . and if Bill Clinton gets into really big trouble ( and he just may ) ... we may see another big run in PM's ... I believe that this is the most likely justification for such a Bull in Pm's ...keep your eye on this one!!

JCI results are in. They are GOOD. Joel made .05/share

versus the same prior quarter.

Western Areas made a profit of 0.81R versus a LOSS of

.244R prior quarter.

Randfontein ( my second favorite ) MADE O.61R versus

0.10R the prior quarter. The average gold price for the

quarter was about $ 307 I believe.

Take a look at Randfonts - .61 for the quarter makes

2.44 for the year - at a 10/1 pe makes a price of 24.4.

Its trading 8.3 Rd. HMMMMMMM.

These are the mines that were supposed to be bleeding

red ink at low gold prices - anybody remember????

For Selby - you referred to ABX mines with a cost

of 200 Rand per ounce. Can you demonstrate costs for

those mines using ABX results ?? I bet you cant do it.

I think you are taking Munk's WORD for it ( via a

hireling accountant ) . Munk is the PT Barnum of the

industry - didnt he say there was one born every

minute.

I love gold as much as life itself. Is this a sin? The Pope sure likes it too. He wears a lot of it.

Here is a portin of the CNN article on clinton and the "I" word:

"Specifically, Starr is looking into whether Clinton
participated in a conspiracy to encourage perjury,
false statements, and obstruction of justice. White
House sources tell CNN they have been informed
of the expanded investigation.

Yesterday I wrote:

http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980120.213124.wetgoldee.htm

Yesterday RJ wrote:

http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980120.220259.rjeeeeeee.htm

The SALES I am referring to are MY sales ( the customer to the broker ) while the purchases are vice- versa. Now that this is clarified Let's ask the question again I posed regarding MY SELLING OF COINS TO A DEALER - - - IS IT REPORTABLE - - - - - - - The answer from Jefferson is NO !!!!!!!!

SIN!!!...The damn Pope is gettin like the bros with all that gold dangling from his neck~~~~~~~~~~~~

How soon till Kitco shuts down???

Info I promised you:

Mc- Master- Carr Supply Company

Headquaters in Chicago

Sales and Customer Service phone # ( 630 ) 833 0300


California location ( Santa Fe Springs )

Sales Desk - ( 562 ) 692 5911
Fax - ( 562 ) 695 2323
Other Dept.- ( 562 ) 695 2449

Try them, they are good. We have a choice from
where to order our stuff, but prefer to work
with McMaster- Carr. Let me know if it works...

Spot Silver still 6 cents higher than March Silver ... tightness in the market...

Com'on TED don't hold back...tell us how you really feel... ( smiley thing )

Morning TED

oh...go gold

I hereby renounce my affiliation with the Freewill Baptist Church and dedicate my life to gold. Everyone tells me I look good in gold too. Surely, there's some gold in hell...At least I hope so.... I'll see you down there someday...I'll be the one in gold chains.

The latest regarding Clinton's may be his demise but let's be careful to get the facts ( as we know them ) straight. As I understand the tapes are not of Clinton speaking to anyone but, rather of a female White House Intern telling an age/gender/workmate that the escapades occurred. This 24 year old apparently has testified under oath that these "trists" did not occur.

My main point here is that the tapes are not of Clinton speaking. I'm not defending him - I'm convinced he's a lying scoundrel and hope somehow the truth comes out.

I hope that Gold does not have to rise because of WW3.
There are plenty of other reasons for a major rise in th POG.
Never the less, we can see that Clinton is kissing Netenyahoos ass, and even with this, he snubbed Clinton and offered no concessions.
I beleive this is a MAJOR embarassment to the US, and there is clearly some big trouble brewing in the middle east.
The US politicians are putting their citizens at grave risk by the policies they are promoting.

if the oil price drops more, the trade balance of the US may not change much

For StudioR

I want some HOT gold chains too

you listenin preacher man ?

The way I figure it, if the worship of gold is a sin....then ALL of it will be in hell. And I hate to say it....please no cards and letters....but if the Pope would take some of the gold out of his pockets and shed a chain or two...he could walk a bit better. Now I know I'm goin' to hell.

H,m I know you are joking about gold in hell but anyone who really wants to see some gold should plan on going to Heaven where the streets are paved with it.

No Fair. You said *I* made Puetz look like an optimist late last summer when I first came on board. I suppose I'm just part of the taken for granted crowd now and *ZIVA* gets all the attention! Well!!!

Alright Ziva, this is war! ( not biological ) Its you and me. We go head to head to see who can describe the worst apoco- political scenerio imaginable and send the chills down the backbone of the Internet waves. Game???

As for me I will be posting from under my bed with a helmet on and gas mask/bio suit at the ready! Also MRE's and a crank phone to the General in case I need some ammo for my 'class- 3' weapon*S*.

I'm ready. Fire away!

Important message to sportsfans.

After reading Ziva's prediction of war in the middle east

and a general big messup coming I thought I would offer this

"poem"?? in the form of a quiz to all sportsfans.

Prize is a copy of my spreadsheet sent in *.rtf which you will

probably spend the rest of your life trying to locate and

decode.

OK WHO Wrote

"the sky is spreading with a stain"

"something's going to fall like rain"

"and it won't be roses"

In case of a tie, nobody gets anything.

GOLD CORNER - 24- HOUR TRADING

Major Gold Trading Centers Around the World. Many Gold price links, including closing bullion and gold coin prices. Also shows live GOLD TRADING in London, Singapore, Tokyo & the COMEX.

To see Intra- Day Charts, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

John, what a nasty world....

We just seems to say bye to ANOTHER with his
gold/oil movie, now we got Ziva on our hands
with gold/war movie...

Ziva said seven Iraqi women found with bacteriological
weapons in their v...... This is really scary...
I wounder what kind of tools FBI guys used to find
these weapons...

Called Sandvik rep this morning, he confirmed that
me findings are correct and according to their lab,
gold indeed should ago above $300 until the end of January...
Will see...

ROTHSCHILD & ROCKEFELLER Chart- Watch Page

Considering the traditional investments of these financial behemoths, we may quite imagine them sitting all day long watching over THEIR INVESTMENTS on this Intra- Day chart page - scroll to the bottom.

To see Intra- Day Charts, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

THE END OF THE LINE... for the Silver Lease CON

Ted Butler is the worlds foremost expert in nuances, intricacies and ramifications of GOLD & SILVER LEASES. Many months ago he exposed the Central Banks ill use of Gold Leasing Operations. Now he shares his insightful observations regarding the Silver Loan CON.

And don't be surprised with future tactics intended to derail
what promises to be a very long and sharp price UPWARD spiral for silver.

...there is no way that the vast bulk of silver loaned can ever be returned.

That was then, this is now - the silver lease CON is over! Here's
why: the report may be read by copying & pasting the above URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

I hope central never reduces your credits quota for wodka and bullets. But, if they do, if the world looks bad to you now, wait to you see it after the affirmative action on alcohol therapy you'll have to go through to get more credits.
I don't wanta hear about it then neither in case Ziva's bugs haven't killed us and we can still delude ourselves into pretending there's a gold market ( Headline from the future: special report reveals how program trading by feds keeps diehard goldbug enthusiasm in check and markets safe ) . I got my own problems. I don't think there's gonna' be any credits for tobacco.

Re: WetGold's post of Wed Jan 21 1998 09:16

WetGold stated that "What was said [by RJ] about reporting sales does not
jive with Jefferson Advert..."

Actually, what RJ said and what the Jefferson advert says are indeed
consistent.

Jefferson's advert claims that sales of Swiss Helvetia coins [back to
a dealer] are NOT reportable. The Swiss Helvetia gold coins are NOT
among the coins that RJ lists as being reportable [on sale back].

There is no discrepancy here.

WetGold goes on to say:
The SALES I am referring to are MY sales ( the customer to the broker )
while the purchases are vice- versa. Now that this is clarified Let's
ask the question again I posed regarding MY SELLING OF COINS TO A DEALER
- - - IS IT REPORTABLE - - - - - - -
The answer from Jefferson is NO !!!!!!!!

...IF the coins you are selling back are SWISS HELVETIA gold pieces.

Note that Jefferson's advert ( at least, the portion you quoted )
makes no claims about the reportability of gold coins other than the Swiss Helvetias!

Everything jives! :- )

There is is no Sultan of Dubai. He is referred to as Sheik. The ruler of Dubai is His Highness Sheik Rashid, also number 2 in UAE after His Highness Sheik Zayed of Abu Dhabi.

The only ruling Sultans left in the world are in the Sultanate of Oman ( Sultan Qaboos ) and Brunei.

BillD- mornin and how's this- - The pope SUKS.....Studio.R: 'They' have a special seat ( in hell ) reserved for me but as they say,ya only live ( ? ) once....Back to material order! Where's ET...er...EB

I'm new to the Gold options business....I've been following the daily listings for about 3 weeks...I noticed yesterday's volume on CALLs for strike of 350 soared to a volume of 5600+. Is this unusual?? Any opinions welcomed of course!

Ted ... there are no Black Clouds or thunderstorms around there ... are there? I have grown to appreciate your posts ... and ... well ... thunderstorms do happen....grin thing

Surely the cat is out of the bag by now: how many fingers and

toes do the Japanane soothsayers have, and & the China- men- of denial - - men at the top, desperately attempting to plug the relentless, reality of spreading, ever- more bursting- breaks of the red- ink in the bursting dam; pumpd into Asia from the all too- eager, greedy Western bloated banks eager to loan loans from their bulging coffers, of the West.

Eager, in exhange, eager have we been to siphon off the interest- rate repaprations of riches from the East, as long as the exploitive charade could be maintained.

But the piper, must at last be paid...... at last - - the chickens are coming home to roost.....right here, to America's stocks, and bonds, and, and shaky markets.

The bloat of red- ink spreading across the seas, knows no political boundaries; the chckens or artificial currency & credit, are coming home to roost - - from whence they came - the U.S.'s central bank & gov't instituion money machines. The piper will be paid.

And all nations and peoples will have it hard - tighten thr belts to make ends meet in a deflationary/depresionary world, where their currency have collapsed vue to U.S. dollar imperialism & hegemony. To help them tighten their belts, face the music, and ultimatley work, at far more humble weekly pay, or, if available, weekly relief checks, we Americans might sick eating out, once a week.

Politically, turmoil is unavoiably brewing as millions are thrown out of work. This is a caldron pot of explosive ramifications - brewing and boiling over till the 'experts' in Washinton & broah have nothing to do but their wash their hands - in the brew. The ivory toward experts with 3 cars in the garage, our 'trusted' financial & politcal leaders are wringing their hands too be sure; they might just as welll wring out their socks to dry, as well. And may we pray that they finallly give up the folly of their ways: they cannot "manage" and " "control" what 'mother- nature' and the natural law of sound banking & monetary principles, does best.

Ultimately.... a universal standard of monetary unit, and medium of excange, based on sound banking and credit institutions - - universallly accepted the world over - - and immune from any politicians & power- interests, with their hidden self- centered agendas, - - will be

reputed and replaced, once and for all, by the truth and trial of true money, genuine & enduring thru time immorial - - the test of milleniums past...prove the test of the milllenium to come...if we can hold fast to the courage and the conviction, to see it through. It is our best hope..to usher in a time of world peace and prosperity.

Innherently enduring, stable, trusted- world, trusted gold money, the world- over, is our onmly ticket out of the thretening malestrom in the bull- ring where the bull and bear where will otherwise fight it to a bloody ruin rthat would set cvilization back, for generations.

And then credit & currency crises like the spreading Asian contagion that will ineviably spread across the world, sprawning untold misery upon the backs, and into the houses & huts, of millions of innocents, across the world......such transgressions of man's inhumanity to man....all in the name of false pride, avarice, denial, and corupting greed, will be no more. The lust for greed and power, will ultimately devour those from whence such curses arise.

Your premise is that RJ is 100% correct in his reporting ( I don't know if he is or not ) . There was lotsa' discussion last week and it seemed that many opinion were presented and no 1 person seem to have a QUALIFIED answer.

SO - - Let's draw this toward a logical conclusion by saying:::::: If RJ his correct in his premise - - - What numismatic/bullion pieces are singled out for reporting purposes.

Again - - I am NOT an expert in this area - - I am only looking for answers ...

TIA

Date: Wed Jan 14 1998 12:29
Miro ( @LGB and WetGold on reporting requirements for coin purchases ) ID#347457:
Folks, something does not sound right about reporting requirements for coin purchases under $5,000. If coins can be bought under IRA ( according to new tax law ) this purchase has to be reported! IRS would not let you take a tax advantage without dealer reporting your purchase. If they have to report this type of purchase, I would question a privacy of any purchase, if for no other reason, dealers accounting and dealing with IRS may be too complicated to keep separate books.

BillD: Biggest waves I've seen in a while here...Snow blowin so hard the ocean ( approx 150 feet away ) is barely visible....go gold....- AS I was sayin storm clouds are gathering...fast!!...Not used to using my brain cell ( bein a mindless 'nail pounder' and three hours this morn. doing the material order and plotting out the house on graph ( 8 lines/inch ) paper is enuf for me feeble brain..CELL...pathetic but 'it' is fried...eh!..Am back 'in headphone land' accompanied by Mr.James Morrison ( we are both 'brain- dead' ) so I can relate....eh??...".People are strange when you're a STRANGER"- - - - "when yer strange faces come out of the rain"...er snow...go gold ( eh Bart ) ....Well back to staring out the window @ the awesome ocean....Even though the judge now OWNS this house we can stay till 5/1 ( thanks bro! ) ...was goin ta exit on 3/1 for Swan's island but a kink has been thown in that plan as the ferry might be down for the whole month of April to fix the loading ramp...They've been thinkin of this fer years and it's TYPICAL they finally decide ta do it now ..eh..Oh well,it will just give me two more months to share my vast knowledge of gold trading to all ( ?? ) the fine memebers of Kitco discussion group...Sprry for the 'ramble' but thinking or trying to,makes my 'head' this way...GO TEAM GOLD- - - slay the 'paper dragon'~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Into this house we're born~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~go TEAM GOLD!

Dow down 84....XAU up .76.....go ABX ( now John Disney and Earl's favorite stock ) ....Peter Munk for Prime Minister~~~

Somebody call cape bretin 911 ... Ted's gone over the hill

FWIW...Xau breaking 69.5, sell Nem as proxy with the appropiate stop.

for Boris -

Ive heard before that swedish grinding tools are usefull

for forecasting - I went shopping today and I got a box of

prickly pears from Algeria and some dates from Pakistan. As

soon as I came home, I tried to forecast the gold price with

the prickly pears but I came up with zilch. Then I tried the

dates. No luck there either but I did get the winner of the

next cricket match in Australia.

Generally speaking, fruit and veg are not good for

forecasting. Stick with the grinding tools. Im sure that the

FBI uses them for matters involving finding things in v.......s.

Ted, you're ALWAYS overboard, mate. So nothing new there. Keep yer tootsies on land fer a while. Also, you will be a MUCH happier camper to start yer building in May than March on the coast'a'Maine. What kinda power you got there??? Telephone? Or will ya run yer own under sea cable?

You had been bad mouthin' gold but now not so?

Away.....

veils???

Is that some kind of sandwich???

Allen ... you have not been keeping up with the posts ....

earlier someone posted that the FBI found 6 canisters of biological agents in the v..... of some Arab women ... got it?? For biological warfare ... got it?? ~~~~~~

Dow down - 119 ... and Ted "overboard"

Don't 'get it'. What does that mean? Is this a joke or something?

Exactly. Any mortal ( or conservative ) president would have been gone about 5 years and 3 weeks ago. It's almost like he has Satan himself at his side ( but that's another story. )

You can expect the same defense that the White House Aide used in the Whitewater Hearings concerning his notes which contradicted sworn testimony from the Clinton's lawyer and others who emptied Vince Foster's office after Vince's unfortunate demise. These notes should have sent high level Clinton peple to jail. But the White House Aide said that HE LIED TO HIS DIARY.

Lying to his diary was a completely plausible explanation to the news media and the Republocrats and that was the end of that story.

he could have claimed to have married his diary and so the diary could not testify against him, eh??

BillD: No hills here!....Allen:Have to run power in approx 600 feet with just one pole in the beginning and the rest buried under ground ( esthetics + practicality ) ..eh ) and YES,I've changed my 'tune....eh!....go gold!- - - - can no longer see the ocean.....at all!!....BillD: 911 is a waste of time ( no one could presently drive down this driveway ( 2/3 mile each way- - duh ) ....Allen: So ya think May- June might be a nicer 'experience' than March- April ...eh...ya gotta rememder- - - - I like adversity~~~~~~~~~~~~GO ABX- - - - - - - - - - soar like an eagle....

But simple discomfort? No glory there Ted.

"I stood in the rain yesterday."
"Why did you do that?"

"I climbed Mt Washington today ( Jan 21st ) ."
"Wow!"

Anyway, I think you'll like it there.

Ziva

Just found your post on Art Bell. Do you know where he broadcasts from so I can contact them to see if he is on in my locality?

Also, where are the "archives" you mentioned?

re forecasting, ...Ahh, but were they Aquarian prickly pears?

Wish you wouldn't have given them another idea. With the New Morality, I guess you can marry just about anybody/anything.

John D.: Weird Al Yankovic? Johnny Mercer?

Ziva: I heard the theory on Shortwave a couple of years ago. Did the FBI catch women smuggling the vials?

Sit back, light up, and listen to the Doors... did you ever wonder why noses run and feet smell?

Charged with bringing ones country from the Valley up the mount- -

One takes from the West their injunction, Never use your own money.
...and borrows where one can.

One takes from the West their creative booking; but, instead off- balance- sheet debts, there are off- balance- sheet surpluses from a steady, secret river, a river whose flow cleanses an ancient wound.

One brings from the ethos of ones own history a steadfast, bedrock belief in the prima value of stability.

One brings from the literature and philosophical foundations of ones own history an appreciation of Discipline.

One brings to the political arena the knowledge that to gain and hold power one must be cloaked in credibility; public pronouncements are political currency and must be spent wisely.

One reads the Wests descriptions of ones economy as:
"bird cage theory, in which he likened the relationship of markets
and central planning to a bird and its cage.
He said: 'The bird must not be held tightly in the hand or
it will die. It should fly, but only within the cage: without a
cage, it will just fly away.' If the bird is a market economy, then the cage is State planning. Naturally, the size of the cage has to be appropriate."

And one smiles that the West finds this so reprehensible...
Jin makes such a strong, beautiful cage, a cage worthy of the bird, a cage that defends and protects by merely being. From yuan,,, to yin and yang.

From the Book of Nine Elixirs:
One of the clearest statements on the Elixir of Correct Yang is in 1.16b- 17a: Gold is the Elixir of Correct Yang.

Art broadcasts from Mars, except when Comets are passing in which case they do "on locations" from the comet

the attached article is interesting and ominous - some in India are unhappy with Individual's hoarding of gold. The money could be put to better use elsewhere.

http://www.expressindia.com/fe/daily/19980121/02155124.html

Allen: I 'know' I will~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Dow down 115 and to be honest,don't know what gold is @... ( DUH )

Mike Sheller
Dat's because we're built upside down.
Ted G'day
All
Who was abducted by aliens *last* night?
auraquiporator

How come none of the Astrologers told us about this turn of events re CLinton? Just ribbin ya, you ARE indeed a gentleman and a scholar, Kitcoites have rightly blasted me for my contentiousness toward you. regardless of our differences of opnion, you conduct yourself with class, poise, style, and intellect. Respectable qualitites all. ( But I still think astrology is crap! )

AWAY~~~~~~~~~~BBL ( have somethin ta do- - - if I could only remember what it was??? ) ....later duuuudes....

G'Day mate........BBL.........................

DEJ: "FIAT MONEY" ( remember to edit out spaces in URL if any )
http://www.onsyd.com/~econ/ch132/tsld008.htm

For Mike

No they were Algerian not Aquarian .. and I hope nobody

tried to carry them around in their v......... -

Goes double for Swedish grinders

Spanky ( @Ziva et al ) :

SULTANS, SHEIKS & OTHER POTENTATES VISIT GOLD- EAGLE DAILY

Testament to the Arab worlds insatiable affinity for ZAHAB ( Arabic for gold - and pronouced phonetically dahab ) , are the daily visits to the GOLD- EAGLE website: From the United Arab Emirates ( Dabai ) , Oman, Brunei Darussalam, Bahrain, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Kuwait, Pakistan ( not Arab, but Islamic ) , Qatar, etc. etc.

Rub elbows with SULTANS, SHEIKS & OTHER POTENTATES by copyin and pasting the URL above to the Internet call- up window ( Go To ) , and click ENTER.

Studio R: Powerful imagery this morning. ... Worship of the Golden Calf in the church of "What's Happenin' Now". Has a nice ring to it. Even if Charleton Heston goes bonkers and breaks them stone tablets again. ... Count me in as an acolyte of the true faith. ...... Must aquire more gold chain.

Hate to go "off topic" and open another can o' worms, but since you're still obsessing in your early AM posts over your omission from the Karlito baiters list, may I cordially nominate you as the chairman and president of the "Committee Restricting Analytical Participation" or "C.R.A.P."

Yes indeedy, it was your ill advised remarks that precipitated the frenzied, mindless, monkey shrieks of your peers that day, precipitating Karlito's final exit. ( Shaking the dust and manure off his feet on the way out the door no doubt, and never looking back ) . There, ya happy now?

Back to metals now and don't bother "baiting" me back into more Karlito stuff!

The tsunami approaches the shore... but first the waves draw back.

Could that tsunami contain GOLD AND OIL????

Saudis let oil prices sink - CNNfn Jan 21 12:39 p.m. ET

http://cnnfn.com/markets/wires/9801/21/oil_wg/

The above should be read in conjunction with my earlier Jan 20 17:58 posting!

http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980120.175859.trinovant.htm

Allen, v....s are very private parts, nobody on
this site can write the complete word without
feeling really uncomfortable about it.

So, we all kind of wondering what was an method
used to find these biological weapons in these
poor women's v.....s.

Looks to me like it was a case of unlawful entry...

If you would be so kind, I need to find further information on Dr. John Coleman. Anything in this regard will be much appreciated. Thank you.

Thanks, LGB.

What's mine is mine...

Back to metals...

IHT Wed Jan 21, 1998
Suharto Running Mate:The IMF's Nightmare?
By Paul Blustein Washington Post Service

JAKARTA - President Suharto of Indonesia let it be known
Tuesday that he intends to serve a seventh five- year term in
office,and in a move that stirred unease among international
investors, he hinted that his choice for vice president is a strong- willed technology minister whose views are anathema to
the International Monetary Fund.
http://www.iht.com/IHT/TODAY/WED/FPAGE/index.html

I remember in the late 70's, early 80's there was a strong link to oil prices vs. Gold. Not so sure now, as we have not seen that link recently. ( Passt...don't let "Another" see that story... )

18 OF THE DINES LETTER'S PAST PREDICTIONS - Right- On- The- Money!!

The Dines Letter was the world's only investment advisory to have predicted the Asian currency crash in advance. Some of these past 18 predictions are already coming true.

During the last two years the internationally recognized market analyst, James Dines, has made some incredibly audacious predictions... and they are turning out as he foresaw them. Here is a review of his fast- forward & quite accurate view of the current currency chaos sweeping ALL ASIA.

To read the report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

http://www.Gold- Eagle.com/ClarityResources/main.html

As a further to Vronsky's ( Genius ) post above, read Clarity Resources, Inc. as an upstart company that shares Soros/Rothschild vision, read "Rocky Road", an interview with a Geologist.

While we are wringing our hands over our losses and abandoning ship, there are others who visualize the potential for Gold in the near future.

Copy the above URL and paste to Location- Then hit enter, thereby reinforcing your Gold beliefs.

BTW, LGB, and I am serious this time.

If Karlito wants to come, Karlito is very welcome.

I regret my childish behavior, I was drunk and I do

not remember exactly what happened.

Will arrange for members of the CRAP to stay cool in

the future. Do we have a deal?



for attack.

Sounds good to me but I think Karlito is gone for good...if not, come back Karlinator!

This is making me feel uncomfortable like Boris said

and a little clammy too.

So far no one has gotten the answer to my quiz or even

taken the slightest interest in it - so we have a tie so

far.

So I'll give you a CLUE. I assume you are familiar with

the Opera "the Rakes progress" by Igor ( thats eye- gore )

Stravinsky. Boris will remember him as he and Shostakovich

used to drink absolute near his place in Moscow. Now thats

your FIRST clue.

My Dear Tolerant1,

I know you asked Haggis for the information on Dr. Coleman, so please excuse my butting in. If you use the search agent Infoseek and either type in Dr. John Coleman or The Committee of 300, you should find substantial no. of sites.

Notice that when we see large amounts of SIlver disappear from COMEX inventory, we invariably see a nice move UP the following day. We had a nice drawdown to the 108 million plus level yesterday, and we're getting a move up today.

Let's see if Silver can break above that $5.80 resistance decisively, follow it up with a break above $6.00 in the next week or two IF further drawdowns continue. Should that scenario play out, shorts are going to get killed when COMEX inventory drops below psychologically important 100 million level, CFTC rumormongering or no! We'll soon see $7.00 Silver if the drawdown continues on pace.

Only caveat, industrial Silver consumers, are not long Silver in their trades and this is an ominously disturbing indicator for us Bulls. I'll be a lot happier when they start going long, with the speculators.

Note to Merril Lynch, short trading, rumor mongering, lying, A** holes. Your market manipulation rumors, won't be as effective next time around.....!!!

Radio "news" from the world's underbelly

Tourist operators throughout NZ are suffering now from the the "downturn" in the asian economies... ( last week the words used were "crisis" and "meltdown" ) ...

The industry is suffering....20% of tourists in past few years from Korea plus more from Japan, and tourism was geared towards those markets. There are just no more tourists from Korea, none. The industry was gutted. ( good thing thinks I ) The Minister of Tourism had no answer to a tour bus operator who has already laid off staff and cancelled contractors when the operator pointed out NZ gave S Korea $70m on Xmas day. "Wouldn't that money have been better spend in NZ?" The double irony, is, of course, that Korean companies owe NZ companies trade debts etc that will never be repaid." The Koreans gaining on swings and roundabouts to parochial eyes.

No doubt similar fiascos will be occurring around the world...

Korea owes us money and will never repay? No worries. Here! Have some more, we'll just increase our taxes and suck our citizens dry.

- - - - tum te do- - - -


BTW the POG has been dropped from the radio news and is no longer quoted in Auckland's only paper, the NZ Herald on the front Business Page - tho the previous day's London close is still uselessly printed within. This change happened in the past couple of weeks only

Thanks for the input. Is appreciated much, what's the song sung by the Scarecrow, If I only Had a Brain.

There are time when I realize if I had another brain it would die of loneliness!!!

Your Brain is Gigantic IMHO.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/ford_f_n_s_1.html

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time...BUT..

He broadcasts from some small town in Nevada USA, I think outside Las Vegas. He is into some unusual topics. How much credibility? Well, you make up your own mind. He is on the AM band in many places late at nite.

It's refreshing to see someone use common sense rather than bean- counts for economic forecasts.
Most people with a technical or financial background ( including mine - - yes Im a recovering nerd/engineer ) think they only need numbers and statistics to produce a forecast.

Thanks for the Mc- Master Carr info.
Nazdrovia! ( spelling? )

Yeah,but He don't have to worry about foolin Hilary,and He sure don't seem to worry about lieing to anybody else,so is He trying to fool ( himself )

When do you think the growth of the digital camera business will begin to affect AG prices? Right before the recent AG rise, Kodak announced a large layoff because of lack of growth in that part of their company.

Before the AG rise my PM broker ( using the digital camera business as the reason ) talked me out of buying SSRIF. When I bought some later at a slightly higher price, he was surprised to hear from me about the Kodak layoff. And this guy is advising me?

Are you familiar with the Lexington Strategic Silver Fund? Even though AG price is higher, I'm down about 25% on a sizable investment. Is it because they own so many gold miners?

Come now, I know you know how to spell our Presidents name.

I believe a biblical passage in Provergs states that "Haughty eyes and a lying tongue" will bring shame to the man who exercises same. Bill's hyperactive sex life will not be what ultimately brings him down. It'll be his arrogant lies about same, and his coverup efforts ( obstruction of justice ) that will destroy him.

Digital will not affect silver prices for many years to come. Remember, for the vast majority of the world, a roll of fill and a 20 buck camera
go a lot futher than digital does. Presently, digital reduces silver demand ( according to the last numbers I saw ) by less than 1% .

As far as brokers go, I have found that unless you have one that specializes in metals, most have no clue about what is discussed here. You are better off listening to people here.

Best of Luck

GoldBug, you caught that "typo" eh? Come on, you know I make a LOT of typo's and would never do that on purpose. Right? right?...

Dave, re digital.

Several problems remain for digital photography which will prevent it making substantive inroads into Silver halide, Silver consumption.

2 ) It's extremely expensive for the proper equipment. Not only the camera's, but you really need a PC, and a good color printer of you want hard copies, which will be extremely expensive per sheet in their own right.

b ) It'll be years before gigital matches the resolution quality of the much cheaper, conventional SIlver Halide.

c ) Digital Cam's consume batteries like there's no tomorrow. Users get quite frustrated with 20 or 30 minutes operation.

When we consider the fact, that Silver halide film consumption has been increasing, even as digital's market has slowly expanded, we can see the trend for the next few years.

AS developing nations populace, ( now numbering in the billions ) continue to get into inexpensive Silver Halide photography, an extremely small percentage of that expanding market will ever go digital.

Overall, I think that the "conventional" Silver photography consumption demands, will continue to grow at a faster pace than Digital's growing market share, thus giving us a net increase in Silver consumption, regardless of how well digital does for many years to come. IMHO.

3 days doesn't make a trend but we are seeing shorts covering so that can sleep well tonight. ( glad to see it's the shorts getting jumpy )

Forgot to address the Kodak thing. It's true they are hurting, but it's not due to a decline in Silver halide film consumption, which has been steadily rising.

The problem is that Fuji has been killing Kodak's market share in recent years, particularly in oversreas markets. Here's where Yen devaluation does indeed hurt the American worker ( as Kodak anyway )

To all

Harmony is up again - 5% . Its at 2- 3/8. I got a

bowl of prickly pears that says Harmony will see

4 1/2 in a short time.

To LGB

Haughty Eyes and a Lying Tongue ?? - Could you play me the

first couple of bars please

Karlita had Bette Davis Eyes.

LGB, never learn to touch type, or edit. "gigital camera".. masterful

We will have to teach that boy how to type. Always enjoy your quick wit.

LGB et. al. :
Proverbs 6:16- 19 - -
There are six things which the Lord hates,
Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
And hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that run rapidly to evil,
A false witness who utters lies,
And one who spreads strife among brothers.

BC guilty on all seven counts? I think this is worse than mouthing off at the pope, IMHO...

I see of you the more I admire you ;- )

Another type!

Got a digital camera that uses AAA, AA, C, D batteries? Get a Ray- O- Vac Renewal Power Station and save a ton of money. Also you will always have batteries on hand. Ray- O- Vac alkaline rechargeables are full voltage @ 1.5v not like nicad @ 1.2v

Today reading Vronskey's post about Indian gold markets. Yesterday reading Isure's gold sales URL...The two demonstrate that the people pushing CB and national reserve gold sales just don't understand the Indians. And the Indians don't buy into the 'prevailing wisdom' of the West. IMHO if the West does sell, then India will buy and in the end the West will buy back at inflated prices.

But I can type mighty fast considering I use only 5 fingers! ( No jokes please!!! ) , Y2K, thanks for complete Proverbial quote, it's chilling if you're Bill... lovely if you're AlGore ( now there's a scary thought... )

Good comment but it reminds me of one more big drawback with those digit cams. The download times from camera to PC are incredibly inconvenient. Somewhere like 30 minutes to 60 minutes for a full load of exposures ( which ain't many anyway , when shot in max. resolution, which is the only reasonable way to shoot with these already inferior sharpness devices )

Overall, the inconvenience level of these things would prevent my own purchase of one for a LONG time. Battery charging, PC link download times, software requirements, PC color printer times for even a single sheet print of one exposure, etc etc etc sheesh! This is an improvement? For a lot more expense and far inferior picture quality? Not me boys!

Back to the Salt mine..uh I mean SILVER mine. See ya'll Friday evening. Gooo Silver!

LGB -

You are absolutely correct. Kodak woes are a result of lost market share instead of fundamentally lower silver consumption. As I understand it, the real battle is being fought in China. The Chinese have discovered photography and their appetite is voracious. Fuji is winning the battle now, Kodak claims unfair business practices. I think silver consumption will rise in years to come.

Die Zeit Mar 1996

"Der am 1. Oktober 1928 in Changsha ( Provinz Hunan ) geborene Zhu Rongji absolvierte ein Ingenieurstudium an der renommierten Qinghua- Universitt in Peking. Von 1952 an arbeitete er in der staatlichen Planungskommission. Wegen einer kritischen Rede wurde er 1957 als "Rechter" gebrandmarkt. Mit der Kulturrevolution 1966 geriet er in Schwierigkeiten und wurde fr fnf Jahre zur Umerziehung aufs Land geschickt. 1975 arbeitete er wieder als Ingenieur."

On 1 October 1928 in Shanghai ( province Hunan ) Zhu Rongji was born.
He completed an engineer study at the renowned Qinghua university in Peking. From 1952 on, he operated in the national planning commission. Because of a critical speech he was branded 1957 as " rightist ". With the culture revolution 1966 he found himself in political difficulties, and for five years was sent for reeducation in the country .

Zhu Rongji is a man who has learned the force of words. It is reasonable to accept that he would use this political currency carefully. Read again what he said in December 1997:

China will take measures to increase the competitiveness of its exports.
It has no need of and will not resort to methods that would mean a devaluation of the yuan.

He has NOT said that the yuan would not be re- priced against the dollar. It has said that the government will not resort to methods that would mean a devaluation of the YUAN.
Jin.

I can think of no better vote of confidence for this view of Silver consumption than yours. Thanks! Off to rocket science....

LGB -

Also agree if COMEX stocks drop below 100 mil, silver go way high way fast.

LGB: I work for a well known company named Gigital ( sic ) . In 1987 the stock price dropped like a rock and never recovered which explains some of my aversion to the stock market. 14 years of investment yielded a zero return.

goldhound: What bothers me is that it was a PM broker for a well known PM brokerage who advised me right before the AG rise that AG was a bad investment. His reason was digital photography. You're exactly right about Kitco being the best source for PM advice.

Vronsky: Glad to hear that you have such high profile visitors.
Im sure they need little convincing of where true monetary safety can be had.
Now, if we could get the Bill Gates crowd to listen in.......

Perhaps this will help?
http://www.saber.net/~walter/bllseye1.txt
best!

Much thanks, I most certainly hope all is well with and for you. Namaste'

Right, I'm told that high res digital is used most effectively by professional photographers that specialize in catalogs. About half these pros use digital. However growing numbers of amateurs like low res images to put on web pages. Small low res images load faster for one thing. Sharpness is adequate. Digital is actually easier for them for this purpose.

Durban Deep is up to 1 5/16 to 2 on volume over 700,000 shares!!!

Is everybody chasing the same dream of a move to $20?? Not much progress in price for that kind of volume...I am not sure what to make of this.

Durban Deep is up to $1 15/16 to $2.00. Sorry .

Thank God we don't have to judge Clinton. Luke 8:17
Let's worry about ourselves, instead. But, on the bright side, this scandal may be good for gold.....

Intra- Day Charts showing ALL PRECIOUS METALS & Gold and Silver Stock Index UP. To view copy and paste above URL to your Internet location window ( Go To ) .

"Yes your honor, I did look at her v....a, but I didn't touch it."

Sorry A.Goose, I no longer collect or have any interest in the "delivery data" of the Comex warehouses...Too deceitful as markets actions rarely correspond with the figures we read. I make a big exception with the current "inventory figures" of Comex because they are truly exceptional and I gladly post them here daily as it could give the opportunity to some other traders/investors to take advantage of quite a potential explosive situation in Silver. ( I think "Arden" use to have those delivery figures but we no longer see his writings here )

As for the markets in general; some of them have been screaming for major trend changes for a few weeks now and the astute traders/investors sure are busy to come up with profitable strategies. I suspect some of the trend changes will be very long term.

And of course, let's not forget about the potential historical "January 12th 1998" day when Bonds reached historical highs and Gold went down to 18 year lows! All in the same day and these 2 extremes still hold.

The Comex inventory data will be posted at around 6:00 pm Kitco time.

UPDATE - - JANUARY CRUDE OIL FORECAST

Crude Oil - Prices could continue to slip well into spring. Brent crude could easily drop to $13.50, West Texas Intermediate to $12.50. A very short- term spike may occur within the next two weeks, as investors speculate about the upcoming OPEC meeting. In the long run, the OPEC meeting will not cure the problem quickly, so prices will continue to drift down until U.S. demand for crude firms up.

International Petroleum Expert shares UPDATED Crude Oil Forecast. Full report by copying and pasting above URL to your Internet location window - then CLICK ENTER.

How can they hear what is not being said?

How can they believe,when told " Gold Is Dead ".

Who will spread the word,when the press is bought,

Who will save the rocket scientists,the Teckies,the lot?

They are the programmers,easily programmed,

They are the workers,with their checks in the mail.

They are new breed,the engine of prosperity,

They have been programmed,this engine can't fail.

Go Gold!

"One MPT's competitors is Jitong, a company under the Ministry of Electronics Industry, which is one of the major players in the "Golden Projects".

The 14 Golden Projects are key components of the Chinese national information infrastructure initiative. The most important of these projects are: Golden Bridge ( a nation- wide economic information and datacommunictions network linking ministries, commissions and provinces ) ; Golden Customs ( a foreign tax network based on an EDI platform and an import- export database, to monitor foreign currency settlements, domestic returns and quota managements systems ) ; and Golden Card ( an electronic- based financial transaction system and information service.

MPT is now more and more concerned by the tendency of many Chinese Institutions, ESPECIALLY BANKS, to develop their OWN PRIVATE NETWORKS rather than using the public ones it has developed.

This trend delights foreign suppliers by multiplying the number of clients. Because of the fierce development of datacommunications networks, unlike most other sectors, the Chinese datacommunications equipment market has not yet been affected by limited spending power and the oversupplied market."

The river is wide and deep and flows freely- - but under the earth, hidden, quiet.

When gold dtocks are dirt cheap, bullion moves up, but the Dow takes a hit which way will gold stocks go? I have long said up and today's action supports that conclusion.

A large portion of my disgust with the boy from Arkansas is the fact that I have stood before the Judge. I stood, owned up to my stupidity, did my thirty days and that was that.

Bill Clinton is a liar, plain and simple. My friends pleaded with me, get a lawyer, you can beat this, you can get off.

My reply, the law is the law. I knowingly broke the law. Misery is misery, why run away from that which will make you stronger and an addition to society.

Your Honor, I broke the law, I stand before you with regrets for my stupidity, but I will not hide behind anything which might allow me to breach the rule of law.

Nuff said.

By the way, later during a luncheon, the same Judge leaned over and said "kid, you are a real piece of work."

After Another's postings over the weekend the price of gold has not dropped another $15 as is the track record.....this means only one thing

If he is a double- bluffing short seller laying bull- traps then he and his cronies are losing market influence and his rhetoric will change, alternately he is a red- blooded gold bull and they are beginning to win the battle and his rhetoric will intensify.

Go Gold, Go Another.

oil stocks zoomed during 1996 and 1997 while gold stocks collapsed. Perhaps gold tocks will soar this year as oil stocks collapse.

Clinton denies everything to Jim Lehrer and said he must "get about the business of the country". Boy, he was really blinking lot, but smooth as silk as usual.....

http://www.drudgereport.com/1.htm

My Dear Tolerant,
There are some on this board that ridicule and trash thoughts, that to them are unbelieveable and therefore are ignored as delusionary.

Last nite on the Larry King show, there was a guest by the name of Vanpraag. This gentleman was able to take calls from total strangers about deceased relatives and forward to them things that astounded the callers. Vanpraag is a relatively humble person that was not making financial gain from his abilities.

There is another, ( Not our Another ) , by the name of Damion Brinkley, that has been a guest on the Art Bell show that had an amazing Near Death Experience. He could read strangers minds and thoughts. Damion was pronounced dead after a lightening bolt that struck him violently while on the phone. He was sent to the mourge. After some 20+/- minutes someone saw him stir, after which he was revived. He was in therapy for some years before he could walk again. His book "Saved by the Light" was on the best sellers list.

These accounts are real and verifiable. How any one can explain these occurences is beyond my understanding. There have been thousands of experiences by many people from all walks of life and many countries that have had similar experiences.

If we went back 100 years in time and told our ancestors of the technology available today, they probably would consider that we were insane or crackpots. People that put anything in the context of impossible because they do not understand are no different from the naysayers that said the world is flat, the sun revolves around the earth, man will never fly, etc. I am a Professional Engineer ( Civil ) and always keep an open mind to all possibilities because I believe that todays science fiction is tomorrows truth.

I do not recall exactly what Shakespear wrote to the effect "THAT THERE IS MORE TO HEAVEN AND EARTH THAN MAN WILL EVER KNOW."

On that crackpot note, I will really give you something to read that is wierd based along similar lines to Dr. John Coleman by a man named Cooper.

He denied everything except call ( s ) made to the young girl at a time he could have asked her to lie. Starr has custody of the voicemail ( s ) on that.

The stock has great leverage and if gold gets to $500 an oz sometime
next year $20 won't be a dream. I have some myself. Although I have
no inside info.

Bill Clinton is unfaithful to himself, his wife and all of America. We Americans will be embarassed again tonight as we listen to his lies on t.v.. He is a monger of sex and he places more importance on his sexual gratification than his appointed responsibilities to honor his country. Gore is his simple- minded pimp.
On the other hand, you sir are a man of honor and there is no manner of comparison that exists between you and he.

Everyone should be proud Clinton has a big d- - k - - - - - - - Look at some previous leaders that had small d- - ks - - - Hitler - - - Mussolini - - - Napoleon - - - Etc Etc - - - Now if the Gold exectives and investors had bigger d- - - s - - - - Where would Gold be today ? - - - Away to find the Jolly green giant

Does anybody have a fund that is not closed in that invests in Malaysia, Taiwain and Indonesia. Thanks.

Just heard on MSNBC something I completely missed in the Slickster's statement. He used present tense: "There is no improper relationship..."

Pete, you really bought what happened on Larry King's Live last night?

Vanpraag is fooling people but he is very intelligent and he could be a very good trader because he learned how to handle "odds" when talking with emotional strangers and telling them things about their deceased loved ones. Any good "psychologist" could have been as successful as him taking calls last night.... without practice!

Odds and psychology; that's what Vanpraag is working with. He has absolutely none of the "paranormal" skills that so many people think he has.

If you don't agree, I still respect your opinion but I strongly recommend that you try to get a hold of the tape of last night's show and watch it at least 2 more times. I guarantee you that if you watch it again with a very open mind, you will notice a dozen psychological twists that he performed and I wonder if even Larry did notice them! ( how could he miss them sitting right in front of Vanpraag?! )

I have a french backgroud so my english vocabulary is not wide enough to be very convincing in writing maybe but If I could talk to you in person, I'd be so motivated to explain to you the reality of those who do these kinds of things. It's all bullshit.

30 yr. bond at 5.801% , Volume on NYSE at 618 million shares ( 116 million in last hour ) .

Its really weird. I bouught into Druuy some weeks back and have been puzzled by its behavior ever since. I'd expected the price to languish along with POG and the volume figures then to rise enough for me to double or even triple my money in the 18 month period mr. Klinton has decreed for long term capital gains. I'd figured with this market about $3.00 woould have been good.I bought when the volume was in the middle of that U shaped depression covering the last 3 months. I figured that was the churning of rats leaving a sinking undevalued blue chip which would turnaround next summer or even next year.

But look at the volume figures this month!! More rats?
http://www.stockmaster.com/sm/g/D/DROOY.html

Why couldn't have Lorena Bobbitt married Bill Clinton? He would be a lesser man than he is today. Or could he be a lesser man?

01/20/1998 $5,495,525,658,807.45
Current
Month Amount
01/16/1998 $5,492,896,688,858.39
01/15/1998 $5,491,815,670,026.21
01/14/1998 $5,488,705,496,927.68
01/13/1998 $5,486,749,552,798.75
01/12/1998 $5,481,621,078,832.40
01/09/1998 $5,480,038,744,944.38
01/08/1998 $5,479,700,204,736.38
01/07/1998 $5,484,646,071,706.36
01/06/1998 $5,486,352,648,906.21
01/05/1998 $5,481,924,290,553.50
01/02/1998 $5,476,836,236,537.09
$18.7 Billion in 20 days. Annualized this is $341 Billion. But the budget is balanced, right LGB? The government would never lie to us, right LGB?

Studio.R Don't be fooled. mr. Gore is neither stupid nor a pimp. Calling him such is like calling a crocodile a lizard. He is an extremely bright, dedicated and skilled environmentalist and he does not understand the words 'private property'. If he somehow gains the presidency look for massive ( wet ) farmland seizures, sharp increases in the prices of US agricultural products, doubling of PGM prices, petroleum taxes and closures of US mines and factories. Expect massive increases in social welfare spending, more of Clinton's gunboat diplomacy and a beaurocracy which would put Lyndon Johnson to shame. IMHO might be good for gold if you live through the concentration camp for 'profiteers'.

GORE IS A LIZARD.

Some Rap - - Dig diggity you got de big rumble for the Israel slumber take the hi road to peace and glory lay the small pencils for da media - - - Go Clinton "MY MAN" Go Clinton.

"Lincoln had previously expressed his confidence in the judgement of a people taken as a whole in these famous words: ' You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time.' It was a simple reiteration of the old saying: Vox Populi, Vox Dei ( the voice of the people is the voice of God ) and of the Islamic dogma that the ijma ( collective opinion ) of a whole people cannot be wrong. Lincoln could not foresee the power of television to fool all the people all the time."

The above is an excerpt from the book "Three Horsemen Of The New Apocalypse" which appeared in a book review in the Spectator magazine dated January 17, 1998.

Sure, anything you say. Jes' don't go wadin' in de' swamp or de' lizard will get you.

President Clinton is unlikely to be remembered for his foreign policy record. Why? Why is a man known for his huge appetites not showing much appetite for changing the world?

Nonetheless, a common theme emerges: Clintons lack of a coherent, long- term strategy or vision.
Tokyo, Yoichi Funabashi points to a "notable lack of the vision thing";
Frances Jacques Attali notes, "lacking a long- term vision, his administration seeks to impose its fancied solutions on an ad hoc basis."
Latin America, Jorge Domnguez exclaims, "I long for Bushs vision!"; Moscow, Yegor Gaidar concludes that "one of the chief distinguishing characteristics of President Clintons foreign policy has been his unwillingness to make clear choices or to provide a coherent vision." London, Rupert Pennant- Rea observes that "it is surely fair to be disappointed by Clintons foreign policy record: relentlessly tactical and never in the cause of strategy";
Middle East, Fawaz Gerges laments that "more than any other recent president, Clinton appears to conduct foreign policy on an ad hoc basis, often gearing it toward satisfying domestic constituencies."
Hamburg, Christoph Bertram writes that "while Kohls agenda is clear, Clintons, if it exists at all, is difficult to decipher";
Hong Kong by Nayan Chanda, who regretfully observes that in Asia "the indirection that has marked Clintons policy toward the region has only confirmed the initial apprehension of 1992."

http://webhighway.com/foreignpolicy/grading.htm

What is the deal with Bema , first time it has traded down on an up day in gold. Any informtion please!!!!

There are open enders but don't you see that Closed ends have all the
advantages to the money manager and the long term investor. First the
managers do not have purchase and liquidate at the whim of the public.
This way they can buy at the bottom when the public is selling and sell
at the top when mutual fund have got to be buyers.

When you purchase open enders at a discount you get and instant
return on your investment. When you reinvest distributions you get the
increased net asset return on every purchase, when shares are selling at
a discount. You can take possession of your certificates. In you hands
they can be used for collateral for low interest bank loans for cars and
houses, and businesses.

Why do you think they call them Investment Companies?

When you keep charts, you have the open high low close and volume
as inputs instead of just the easily manipulated close. You get prices as
they happen.

Now I will list the advantages of mutual funds.

1. The shareholder pays for advertising.

2. You can switch if the funds no good.

In answer to your question Morning Star's Employee's pension is in a Tempelton Emerging Markets Open End. They them.

And I didn't pollute a damn inch of holy American ground. Between the city, state and federal required inspections and mandated reporting requirements, my people have no time to find and produce oil and gas. This is of little concern to virtually all Americans today, because of cheap foreign energy sources. But America one day will suffer immensely for the government- imposed fatal economic harm done the smaller domestic oil/gas companies.

May the EPA, MMS, Bureau of the Census, BIA, State Tax Agencies, The US Energy Dept. all go straight to hell and may they burn forever with a pain so intense they scream continuously ad infinitum.

Dow/Gold Ratio = 26.62

rumpled rumple- stiltskin Trea. Sec. Rubin begins to hint at the truth...
too terrified to tell it like it is:
http://cnnfn.com/hotstories/economy/wires/9801/21/rubin_wg/

XAU/Spot Ratio = .241

Let's hear it for silver today ... up 13 cents ....Rah, Rah, Rah ~~~~~

My Dear Realistic,
In all probability you are right, except what is his motivation? If he uses these talents, whether false or true, for financial gain, then you are right. Then, you also could be wrong.

We will never know for sure, there is always the possibility. Remember, todays science fiction could be tomorrows truth.

On the edge ready to fall into the pit, taht's me.

Bill Don't fret - - - The great whore media - - - - - nothing has changed - - - - - - - - that sits in many pockets- - - - - - will set your policy ? again - - - - - no more sex - - - strange visitor's the last few days- - - from the middle East - - - - do what you are told - - - you see the timing - - - you see the light - - - - - Away to buy Dunkin Donuts.

Silver/Gold Ratio = 49.97

Donald ... isn't that really the Gold/Silver ( Gold divided by Silver ) that is 49+? Does that make any difference ...Silver/Gold or Gold/Silver

Was wondering if anybody caught the recent press release, Our commander and chief was heard answering a question from Sam Donaldson, it went something like this:

"Er eh, intern, oh yes, I want to be forthright and absolutely clear, I want you to know that aaahhhhh I just sniffed and did not penetrate, I repeat did not penetrate. No further Questions, thank you."

Did anybody else here this, I could not find anybody to support what I was told?

Refer- You had a Wet dream.....Again

Seriously, and not trying to be funny, IMHO you're right. You have my sympathies. I used to have a timber farm then sold out due to a variety of reasons. Third down on the list was a series of environmental agencies and regulations which prevented me from rebuilding a key dam in the 'wetlands'. Second on the list was the steady flood of persons on welfare who had all the time in the world to wander over my land hunting, fishing, building campfires, causing erosion while I was off working to pay the mortgage and taxes and pay their welfare checks. IMHO

But I'm also serious in a perverted sort of way about the possibility of beneficial changes to PGM prices should the Crocodile somehow be seated as president. That would predict a surge of regulations pertaining to smokestack catalytic converters, automobile cc's, auto batteries, fuel cells and long life electrodes for the solar electric industry. Plus increased energy costs, inflation and probalbe increased gold prices. IMHO

The next two days are real important and may point to a break in the major trends in stocks and metals. The SNP has tested the upside of the recent range and is near the 963 pivot. Below this is bearish. Gold has to walk up and test 300 and stay above this magic level for 5 trading days and then one can argue a major reversal. For these multi year trends, the next two days are key to determine a magor trend change.

Spot Silver is 14 cents higher ( @5.86 ) than March ( at 5.72 ) . Backwardation.... when this happened to Platinum several months ago ... Platinum soared ...Time to get ouddaway of silver??

223- I am home today with some broken ribs and a working mouse so watch what you say ....Clinton let's blame the president - - - - - Get a LIFE!!!

All -

Since I trade both sides of the market, I am more concerned with volatility than direction. Up, down, all the same to me. Don't like sideways much though. Since silver is inherently more volatile than the other metals, most of my short term trading is done in silver. Some might find the attached silver history and averages interesting. Its more a measure of how much the price moved than where it went. I just plugged in the 1997 numbers. So the methodology is understood, I used the following assumptions:

Early numbers are based on perpetual chart data received from The Future Source. Data from1993 forward are based on closing spot prices.

All monthly averages are weighted to actual monthly movements.

Rather than divide the price movement into the low for the year - which would yield much higher percentages - I divided the price move into the high. I think this gives a more accurate picture of net potential.

Will work up a standard deviation chart in the next week. Clearly, silver is the metal that moves the most.

I do appreciate your sympathy and, in particular, your warning to America to protect itself from being Gored. But personally, I would sacrifice better metals pricing in favor of eliminating Gore from the public leadership sector. Thank you for patiently understanding my emotional outbursts.

Bill -

Your comparison to the platinum/palladium backwardation of last summer is astute. I do believe silver is the play.

Leon Panetta left Clinton and returned to private life. Now we know why: this aide worked in Panetta's office and Panetta still had his conscience in tact.

sh- moe- Get A life.

Are you serious? How did you crack your ribs? Faulty chicken wire?

Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Fell 3,432 troy ounces to 450,890

Silver: Fell 215,809 troy ounces to 108,526,227 - A new 13 year low.

SOROS KNOWS, BUT WONT TELL... About Gold & the Dollar

That Soros won't reveal more about his position on the fate of fiat currencies ( and thus his opinion on gold ) is significant. Something is undoubtedly up his sleeve as we have witnessed in his recent positioning in the silver market ( Apex ) as silver is due to skyrocket ( see Ted Butler's recent article ) . More than any other player in the market today, Soros's every move should be monitored. Given Soros's measurable success in currency markets, and given his alliance with the world's greatest and oldest market makers ( the Rothschilds ) , Soros is undoubtedly beginning to play part of his hand. These two players will undoubtedly be key market makers in resolving the war between fiat currencies ( the U.S. $ ) and GOLD.

To read the ALCHEMY OF FINANCIAL CHECKMATE - EPILOGUE report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

Studio- R - No chicken wire in Lake Simcoe but words can kill.Poor Clinton - - - - Rich Great Media in USA must be rating season.Buy some commercials we got clinton on the headlines - - - - ug- - - ug

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Date: Tue Jan 20 1998 23:49
Preacher ( Ziva's reasons ) ID#227290:

Ziva,

Somehow I have missed it,
but am interested to hear a brief
( or more if you like )
relisting of the reasons you believe
gold will rise above $600 this year.

The Preacher
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*
*
*
Dear Preacher,

You may have noticed that Bart in his great wisdom,
defined this discussion group: ...... for INVESTORS .

There is NO mention of ............INTELLIGENT investors !

This creates a GOLDEN opportunity for a simple woman like me
to squeeze my foot through the door
as long as I do not overdo it, and off the New- York GOLD trading hours.


My views are expressed VERY CLEARLY
via the website- links that I provided.
Mistakenly, I injected sometimes some indirect humor,
to keep this forum going ( my husband & secretary, etc. ) ,
unfortunately, some Kitcoits, dont get it.

I never said above 600, I said above 1000.

*
*
We are being slowly manipulated
towards WW3....around October this year.
Mike Sheller can guess the timing better than me.
The Arab world is cooking and CNN is NOT reporting.

This war will be between the us, Israel and the West
against the Arabs and China.
The excuses that they will give us are nonsense,
if you will study Mr. Netanyahu, you will understand everything.
At this moment, everything is already in place, war is UNAVOIDABLE,
AND WE ARE BEING LED AS SHEEP TO THE SLAUGHTER.

So, as I said: GOLD will go to the moon,
but for a very short time IMO.
Soon after, the devastation from the biological war will be so great,
that our lives will return to a very primitive stage.
80% loss of life is a figure often quoted in Intelligence circles.
If you will survive it, you will probably wish you were dead.
You may be happy to know that while you are dead,
our military will be OK.
The Pentagon announced last week that 1.4 million soldiers
are being immunized against bacteriological weapons.....
it is probably just a coincidence........

There are no secrets anymore, it is all on the Internet.
Any old lady in the bush, with just half a brain,
can find more RELIABLE information
than the President, the KGB, CIA, FBI,MI- 5,6,7,8,9 or anyone else.
If you will research the Internet thoroughly & meticulously,
you will find many sources from within the Military and the FBI.
After you study their 'reliability factor',
you may find out that the FBI has already caught seven Iraqi women
with biological canisters inside their v- - - - - .
If the FBI found seven,
dont you think that it just may be the tip of an iceberg ?
Just remember what happened at Tokyos subway.
Murphy Law always works, it is just a question of time.

OK, enough ...... doom and gloom,
Since you requested MORE of my opinions,
read this morning posts:


http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980121.005526.zivaeeeee.htm


http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980121.010012.zivaeeeee.htm


http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980121.004510.zivaeeeee.htm

Yes. You are right. People just seem to say silver- gold in that order for whatever reason. I have seen it expressed elsewhere using figures such as ".644". Certainly 16:1 has the ring of history.

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Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 09:37
MoReGoLd ( @ZIVA ) ID#348286:
I hope that Gold does not have to rise because of WW3.
There are plenty of other reasons for a major rise in th POG.
Never the less, we can see that Clinton is kissing Netenyahoos ass, and
even with this, he snubbed Clinton and offered no concessions.
I beleive this is a MAJOR embarassment to the US, and there is clearly
some big trouble brewing in the middle east.
The US politicians are putting their citizens at grave risk by the policies
they are promoting.
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Leave Clinton alone,he is too busy with women.
Policies are decided by the Military,
and the REAL government,
of which we know nothing about.

Poorboys, your logic doesn't hold up. Why would the media, always disparaging Whitewater, etc., all of a sudden "selling" Clinton's troubles? Because they are rats deserting a sinking ship; they smell Clinton's demise and don't want to be on the wrong side when it hits the fan. Even Stephanopoulous, now part of the "media" is hedging his bets. It's not about this week's ratings; it's about repositioning themselves to salvage some semblance of credibility going forward. Kitco is my life, I don't need to get one.

Martin Armstrong http://www.pei- intl.com/Research/SILVER.HTM states that not all silver inventories are being reported and that their is an abundance of silver. Please view the site and offer an opinion.

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Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 09:59
Allen ( USA ) ( Old Gold ( RE: Ziva & Puetz ) ) ID#246224:
No Fair. You said *I* made Puetz look like an optimist late last summer
when I first came on board. I suppose I'm just part of the taken for granted
crowd now and *ZIVA* gets all the attention! Well!!!

Alright Ziva, this is war! ( not biological ) Its you and me. We go head to
head to see who can describe the worst apoco- political scenerio imaginable
and send the chills down the backbone of the Internet waves. Game???

As for me I will be posting from under my bed with a helmet on and gas
mask/bio suit at the ready! Also MRE's and a crank phone to the General
in case I need some ammo for my 'class- 3' weapon*S*.

I'm ready. Fire away!
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I just booked a fishing trip for August,
on Hayarkon River in Tel Aviv.

Just like you to sit there letting your mouse do all the work. :- ) Hope those ribs heal pretty soon. But I'm not the one who's been badmouthing mr. Klinton. I think he's a likable fellow, kind of like my second cousin Dillard, the bootlegger.

If the White house is for show, who really run the country. And why would each administration be allowed to set foreign at their descrection. I relize many gov. projects are performed to benifit big business but haven't foreign policy been left up to each administration? Why would the real powers would let U.N. have control of our armed forces overseas?

Shlomo - I agree ......The Media has no Credibility.......Ziva- - - - - You Know too- - - - Toooo- - - Much

Url for Martin Armstrong http://www.pei- intl.com/Research/SILVER.HTM
If this does not work just type information up to and including com. http://www.pei- intl.com/Research/SILVER.HTM

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Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 10:05
John Disney__A ( A poem to lighten the mood ) ID#24135:
Important message to sportsfans.

After reading Ziva's prediction of war in the middle east

and a general big messup coming I thought I would offer this

"poem"?? in the form of a quiz to all sportsfans.

Prize is a copy of my spreadsheet sent in *.rtf which you will

probably spend the rest of your life trying to locate and

decode.

OK WHO Wrote

"the sky is spreading with a stain"

"something's going to fall like rain"

"and it won't be roses"

In case of a tie, nobody gets anything.
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It is not a prediction
it is already started,
DON'T YOU SEE IT ?

If the White house is for show, who really runs the country? And why would each administration be allowed to set foreign at their descrection. I realize many gov. projects are performed to benifit big business but, haven't foreign policy been left up to each administration? Why would the real powers let U.N. have control of our armed forces overseas?

R.Rubin is expected to make his rounds tonite on both NBR and
Moneyline, and would you believe it Asia is really not a GLITCH
according to Rubin it is REAL!!!!" we cannot allow this crisis to continue and will it have an impact on the US, we rare in a New era ,tough issues
NO GUARANTEES!!"

"The overvalued strong US$ not the problem weak Asian currencies
is the problem" Can you believe this statement?

But he says with a straight face "it can be managed".No Deflation here!
and congress better not hold up IMF funding.... very important.

Both Microsoft and other computer earnings are starting to show
Asia effect, the March quarter figures will be better reflective of said impact.

Clinton has been getting alot of press all day today very BAD PRESS mostly even talk of impeachment,look for the US markets to tank tomorrow again!!

It's obvious that most of the posters here don't care for Bill Clinton, but it would be nice if, before the hanging, we see some evidence.

On the other hand, if he has the gonies to stand there and deny everything as smooth as he does, knowing that he is prevaricating beyond belief, he should be impeached.

With that said, since this is a gold forum, and not a political BS sludgepool, what will happen to the dollar and gold?

In 1973- 74, as the stock market plunged, every attempt to rally was squashed with accusations against Nixon and Agnew, and metals rallied. I predict that, if there is evidence against Clinton on this accusation, the dollar will croak.

Several persons had commented that Armstrong was short 5000 contracts of Silver. That's a lot of money! Maybe that is why he is bearish about it?

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Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 10:13
oris ( John Disney ) ID#238422:
John, what a nasty world....

We just seems to say bye to ANOTHER with his
gold/oil movie, now we got Ziva on our hands
with gold/war movie...

Ziva said seven Iraqi women found with bacteriological
weapons in their v...... This is really scary...
I wounder what kind of tools FBI guys used to find
these weapons...

Called Sandvik rep this morning, he confirmed that
me findings are correct and according to their lab,
gold indeed should ago above $300 until the end of January...
Will see...

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The FBI do not find anything.
They are the lowest level in the chain of command.
They are told what to do, and what to say.
They are a front for the REAL government.
Didn't you study TWA- 800 ?
http://www.erols.com/igoddard/twa- fact.htm

http://www.house.gov/democrats/research/downsize.html

The FBI boys have obviously been following in the foot steps of Bill Clinton..........

I am pleasantly surprised to see some positive signs on the gold market. Despite the fall in Wall Street, gold was up on yesterday. There is also talk that the CB have not been selling as some expected. Furthermore, some mines are being closed and other projects suspended.

Although I was sceptical a week ago, I too am starting to think that MAYBE the bottom is in. Of course, the POG would have to get above the $US300 mark first before we could make any conclusions but MAYBE the first signs are there.

Was interested in USAGold's talk about silver. The advice of caution was noted. Have been considering buying but will now hold off.

Finally, there was some earlier talk about the Fed's report which suggested the liquidation off the USA's gold reserve. I read it about 2 months ago. Can't see it happening with Greenspan there but who knows what will happen when he's gone. The funniest thing about that report was that it speculated that if all the CBs sold all of their gold the price would fall to $309 ( ! ) . After only some 450 tonnes net sales last year the price fell to below $300. Hmmmm... interesting projection!

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Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 18:38
refer ( Ziva@Real Power ) ID#41229:
If the White house is for show, who really runs the country? And why
would each administration be allowed to set foreign at their descrection. I
realize many gov. projects are performed to benifit big business but,
haven't foreign policy been left up to each administration? Why would the
real powers let U.N. have control of our armed forces overseas?

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How about looking at it a little differently:

Each administration was "voted in"
BY THE R- E- A- L GOVERNMENT
when it wanted to change foriegn policy ?

We Americans are so guillllllable.

Refer, my darling,
The public has a very short attention span.
They see only what is in front of their noses.

We Americans are so easily manipulated,
because we have been brainwashed to beleive,
that with so much MASS MEDIA,
we could not possibly be manipulated.

What does Bill say to Hillary after having sex?

"I'll be home in 15 minutes".

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/tokyo_stoc_3.html

The US has been singing that song for many, Many years!
They told the Bundesbank in the late 70s, "It's our currency,
but it's your problem,"

And that seems to be our only consistent foreign policy:
everybody else it out of step but us! What is more remarkable- -
that we have the audacity to say it, or that all seem to believe it?

Tolerant1@due.an.apology I mistyped "tolerant"! My apologies {:- (

( India unhappy with individual's hoarding of gold )

"the attached article is interesting and ominous - some in India are
unhappy with Individual's hoarding of gold. The money could be put to
better use elsewhere".

http://www.expressindia.com/fe/daily/19980121/02155124.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/ny_s_korea_2.html

If you were to administer thiopental to Bill Clinton and Larry Flynt, the resultant disclosures would be identical. The great cleansing of the federal septic is set to begin tomorrow. Great risk but, likewise, great reward for democracy. Let it begin.

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Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 10:58
Spanky ( @Ziva et al ) ID#286262:

There is is no Sultan of Dubai. He is referred to as Sheik. The ruler of
Dubai is His Highness Sheik Rashid, also number 2 in UAE after His
Highness Sheik Zayed of Abu Dhabi.

The only ruling Sultans left in the world are in the Sultanate of Oman (
Sultan Qaboos ) and Brunei.

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Spanky,
I was only quoting another post.
I myself am not familiar at all with all the titles down there.

Personally, I have been traveling around the world
for over 50 years.
I had many chances to meet many Arabs of different countries.
If you will ask me what is the most warm and friendly people,
who also have a rich culture and history,
I will say: it is the Arab nations.
In 1984 I traveled all around Egypt for 30 days,
the Egyptians people were so kind,
I wanted to cry sometimes.
Only when I was there,
did I realize what was missing in the USA.


Yuppie


A yuppie opened the door of his BMW, when suddenly a car came along and
hit the door, ripping it off completely. When the police arrived at the
scene, the yuppie was complaining bitterly about the damage to his
precious BMW.

"Officer, look whtat they've done to my Beeemer!", he whined.
"You yuppies are so materialistic, you make me sick!" , retorted the
officer. "You're so worried about your stupid BMW, that you didn't even
notice that your left arm was ripped off!"

"Oh my gaaawd...," replied the yuppie, finally noticing the bloody left
shoulder where his arm once was, "Where's my Rolex?!"

Russert is probably one of the more balanced reporters in the mainstream.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/138232.asp

Forget about Kitco and the Discussion Forum......Ask a Geologist....

"When is the gold price going to hit US$400 - time and date?"

Cut and paste........

http://walrus.wr.usgs.gov/docs/ask- a- ge.html

If I'm following your reasoning. Then reason Bill Clinton was elected over George Bush to change foreign policy so that U.S. would look indecisive and not display leadership when it came to foreign conflict. Or the real leaders wanted the U.N. to have control of so- called peace keeping missions. Or to have military down sized just after the real powers had Reagon build them up.

Not trying to take you to task, have to admit you surprised me a couple of days ago when you posted about the affair story being shot down, and then for it to come out today. Just trying to pull more information out of you.

I agree that most Americans would change their attitudes about Arabs and Persians if they could spend time in their countries. I experienced the hospitality and safety of their cultures first hand in the oil business. I sat in the sand with them around the campfire drinking chai.

The depictions and characterizations of them by our media is testament to bolshevik media contol and the evils of Talmudic and Zionist propaganda.

It wasn't GOLD, it was RHODIUM.......

US$290 compared to US$440 per ounce.

the Egyptians people were so kind,
I wanted to cry sometimes.
Only when I was there,- - - - - - - - but- - - - but- - - - - -
Ziva - Welcome To Kitco - - - - - Cry no more- - - you are here - - - - above inelegant commercialism - - - - damn it ! Buy some water......

Do you think most people would change their minds concerning Americans, if they sat in the sand..............????

Do you think most people would change their minds concerning Americans,
if Americans took their heads out of the sand ...........????

I would like to see the gold chart stair step up, not spike up. Everyone knows that the frogs will jump out of the pot if it gets too hot too quick. I see Asia is starting to get on the gold wagon tonight ( today )

Hear about the Scot who walked into the bakery and said,

"Is that a macaroon in the window or a meringue?"

You Son of a Gun. I am impressed! You have my undivided attention. To the skepticals...explain this one...Jan. 22 and 23. Mike told us two months ago to wear Kevlar tomorrow. BAD BONGOS.

I hear that Bill Clinton has requested a trip to Mars, to test out life "on the other side".........

When asked why he wishes to go, the President replied...

"Oh, I just want to try something new !!....."

Poorboys- Poorboys do you think Australians would take their heads out of - - - - South African pockets for a change ? - - - Sorry gone to sleep - - - - - leave my other id alone

BREAKING STORIES:

Aussie Growth rate decline tipped to worsen
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980122/news/news5.html

Indonesian Debt, vice- president fears sink rupiah
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980122/world/world1.html

Rupiah collapse ends $A rally
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980122/market/markets2.html

This time it's for real, Kim warns chaebols
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980122/world/world2.html

ANZ Bank $2.7bn Asian fallout
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980122/banking/banking1.html

IN REVIEW:

Dr Habibie as Indonesian VP will kill currency
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980121/world/world1.html

Intriguing moves in HK property moves - Time to buy??
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980121/world/world2.html

Bargain hunt on in Korea
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980121/market/markets3.html

Japan: the $164bn collapse
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/980120/business/business1.html

Soros rumoured to clean up in Korea
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980120/world/world2.html

Falling metals spike Normandy
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980120/invest/invest5.html

Is Asia qualifying for 'blood in the streets' time?
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980120/invest/ivsuper.html

Cross rate gives lie to crisis
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980120/market/markets4.html

RADICAL ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM FIRES UP
http://www.jvim.com/IntelligenceBriefing/jan1998/islamic.html

Russian Update
http://www.jvim.com/IntelligenceBriefing/jan1998/russia.html

A New Economic Order is coming
http://www.jvim.com/IntelligenceBriefing/jan1998/cover.html

Airlines cannot fix Y2K Bug in time ( Jan 15th article )
http://www.jvim.com/cgi- bin/update.cgi

Behind Hashimoto's Remark on Dumping U.S. Treasuries
http://www.japanecho.co.jp/docs/html/240506.html

Japanese Communist Party gaining ground with jaded voters
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/980117/world/world9.html

Deflation: Strategies to cope with it
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980117/smart/smart1.html

China still haunted by devaluation
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980117/market/markets4.html

IMF - Now for the backlash
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980117/perspective/perspective1.html

Why the world is watching China
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980117/perspective/perspective2.html

US to convene more financial plotting & scheming
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980116/world/world2.html

Crisis may eat Asian chips
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980116/inform/inform1.html

Agricultural exports to South Korea grind to a halt
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/980116/pageone/pageone11.html

Profits of arms manufacturers will far due to Asian cancellations
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/980116/world/world2.html

Results indicate Gold oversold
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/980116/business/business8.html

Asian blowout feared for European car makers
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980115/world/world3.html

Asia a worry for German banks
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980114/banking/banking5.html

IMF blames sloppy banking for current crisis
http://www.theage.com.au:80/daily/980112/bus/bus5.html

Central Europe suffers emerging- market flu
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980113/world/world3.html

Delinking HK dollar a different ball game
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980112/world/world3.html

Taiwan prepares for yuan's fall by June - - just in case
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980110/world/world3.html

Doubts over use of RBAs TWI in measuring balance of Trade with Asia
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980110/news/news1.html

HOW EXOTIC DERIVATIVES TOOK DOWN KOREA'S ECONOMY
http://nypostonline.com/business/2439.htm

MAHATHIR'S ECONOMIC THUNDERBOLT OUT OF THE BLUE
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/mahat.html

After 15 years the bulls are looking for a break
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971230/invest/ivsuper.html

Reproducing the 1930s
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971227/world/world1.html

Mid Level Officials lobbying for Chinese Devaluation!
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971219/world/wwashington.html

BOOKMARK Steves News Page:
( Courtesy of Colin Seymour )
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~netking/blizard.htm

Sometimes, fiction is closer to truth than fact....

In the film, "Wag the Dog," the President is caught fondling a young girl visiting the White House. In order to divert the nation's attention from this tawdry fact, the President's top advisors concoct a scheme to fake a "phony war" with Albania.

Will the nation find itself in a war ( possibly the MidEast ) in order to distract the nation's attention from the scandal that might ultimately result in CLinton's impeachment?

If so, what effect will such war ( real or not ) have upon the markets?

You can't stereo type a whole nation of people by who they elect. They are many good examples of humanity that could be seen in U.S. Its just unpopular for the media to display these individuals. These days honesty and intigrety are not popular. U.S. media today puts people like Dennis Rodman, Maddona in the lime light. What virtue do these people display?
There is a movement within U.S. at the ground level to bring back the morality that made this country great. I think that this was present in the Perot campaign, eventhough they were misled.
If you have a problem with u.s., thats fine many nations due and have a legitamate right to, but to accuse all of people within is unjust and puts you at the same level as the people you despise.

Respectfully

To All,

I wanted to take this opportunity to thank all the posters at Kitco. I've been lurking on the site for 3 - 4 months trying to get a little insight and education in gold investments. You have all provided sound theories and advice with moments of real brilliance ( at least they seemed brilliant to me ) . I just wish I understood 1/3 of what is said on this sight. I think I'm just addicted to scratching my head, having my eyes spin in their socks, and having my mouth gap open as I repeatedly say HUH? I have understood enough to confirm what I thought made good sense, invest in GOLD!

My strategy was simple ( had to be for me ) . I took what on hand cash I felt I could spare and restructured it. First I put 25% into CDs ( ya never know ) , 25% into bullion, and 50% into gold stocks. I figure you can't learn to swim ifin' ya don't know what water feels like. I gathered data and asked advised on several stocks and bought PDG, TVX, and RYO, 40% , 50% and 10% respectively. I bought them at what has been so far their low in the last 2 months. After 30 days, I didn't like or understand the way RYO was moving. It would have high volume each day and would move up 1/16 and then immediately down 1/16. Regardless of how the industry, POG, or DOW moved. It briefly went to
1- 5/8 and I dumped it. I figure if you don't understand it and you can't make sense of it don't pick at it. I took the profits bought a cup of coffee, and a jelly donut. I used the original investment and bought more PDG and TVX. Now, TVX seems to be in the same curious rut, but I think I'll stick this one out awhile. Unless someone knows something I don't ( wouldn't be too hard ) .

I met a woman at the horse races one time. While everyone was studying tip- sheets and racing forms she just watched the horses. She figured that the last horse to take a dump had to run better. She picked four winners that day. Gold investments are kinda like horse- racing, except the races last longer, if the jockey gets thrown you can quit and usually get part of your bet back. There are all kinds of ways to pick the winners, but you NEVER bet $100.00 if ya only got $20.00 in your jeans. Oh, and never take the title of anything you own with you.


To ALL my thanks and respect.

In response to your very interesting question, my disbelief at the gull
he showed making such a statement, at a time when he himself just
acknowledged the Asian "CRISIS" and the incredible drop in value
of said Asian currencies vs the US$ , but my poit was that very few
investors who heard him will believe him. He might have been able
to get away with said statement prior to said Asian crisis, and have
probably been believed, but not now, not in the same sentence as
"Asian currencies are collapsing ".

IMHO something BIG may be up!!

1. Phone conversations are over in 45 seconds.
2. Movie nudity is virtually always female.
3. You know stuff about tanks, powertools and flat tires.
4. A five day vacation requires only one suitcase.

A friend who is going through a divorce emailed these to me; I wish I could figure out how to "lift" all 100 at once and post them here.

"even though they were misled". Were you saying that you thought Perodt misled them ? Coud you please clarify ?

5. Monday night football.
6. You don't have to monitor your friend's sex lives.
7. Bathroom lines are always 80% shorter.
8. You can open all of your own jars.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/china_set__1.html

List of 50 Highest Ranking Power Brokers

1 Jiang Zemin
2. Mahathir Mohamad
3. Suharto
4. Rupert Murdoch
5. Zhu Rongji
6. Hashimoto Ryutaro
The list is interesting for many reasons, but what was surprising? The number 2 and 4 slots. Of Murdock it was said, He is both liked and respected...
Hashimoto Ryutaro the only Japanese I saw on the list, and he ony ranked 6th! Perhaps because Japan is so "West- focused"?

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/china_curr_1.html

What is keeping you at the office? We won't tell a soul, pard.

The average daily turnover in Gold for the month of December was
1359 TONS! according to the World Gold Council weekly report.
Let's see that's about 28,000 TONS traded in December???
What's wrong with this math?
Are they counting physical Gold and or paper Gold?
Who has that much gold to sell forward or outright?
Are we not really talking about almost the same amount as the entire
Gold reserves of the CB's being traded in a month?
Are the same interests buying or selling to themselves?
What gives?

go soon. Reasons 9 to 100 will have to wait till tomorrow. Yawn.

I have read their articles, books and listened to the shortwave broadcasts. As much as I dislike the current way- of- things, I concur with these two men on very little. Each appears to grasp a few remarkable possibilities, only to surround them with holed hypotheses.

However, some very interesting propositions are made by each man; but they do the reader/listener a disservice as they attempt to mold a career by speculating around a few events and situations, unable to provide anything more than circumstantial proof.

DR. COLEMAN'S report offers Henry Kissinger's involvement in the Korean War. Dates for that war and Dr. Kissinger's activities at the time do not support this.

Dr. Coleman also has mistaken the origin of "rock 'n' roll." Maybe he's not familiar with Allan Freed. See the straw fence he builds?

MR. COOPER...is a sensationalist, yet fetches one interesting story of a military coup's responsibility for the ousting of Richard M. Nixon from the U.S. Presidency.

Briefly,... I had wondered at the time of the President's resignation why all U.S. Navy warships in San Diego Harbor ( I can not speak of other forces ) were ordered out of port, or what is called an "emergency underway," setting Defcon 1. The only answer I was given at the time ( yes I questioned it ) was that for a moment "nobody will have control of The Button." "Hogwash," I said, then, as well as now.

Oh my, but it was a magnificent sight to see.

So they are worth reading, though I would not follow them far.

( Defcon 1 is Defense Condition One, highest alert, war is emanant. )

9. Old friends don't give you crap if you've gained or lost weight.
10. Dry cleaners and haircutters don't rob you blind.

The rest will have to wait until tomorrow; gives you all something to look forward to, if it's a slow gold day.

Okay, Central Expressway, here I come !

Dear Ziva,

Thank you for the recount. It's hard for me to imagine that China and the Arabs can unleash the military power that would be any match for the USA, Israel, and Europe working in concert.

Is it your perspective that China and the Arabs will be able to exert military power sufficient to challenge the other alliance, or do you believe that Arabia is using loose U.S. immigration rules to import biological and other weapons into the country to strike at soft targets from within?

As for Clinton, I guess he figured if Martin Luther King could act that way and get a national holiday named after him, "then I can too."

The Preacher

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/japan_bank_1.html

TZADEAK- - easy answer Mcdonald's who else could do the volume- - - Good Night all.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/21/clinton.starr.pm/

Snowball: Sounds like yer well on yer way. Welcome aboard.

Any ideas where Janet Reno should send her resume'?

Tzadeac: I'm no rocket scientist, but I am a card- carrying physicist! You are pointing out something I do not understand either! According to Frank Veneroso, one must conclude most of that activity is very short term "paper" gold trading, because he claims that on average, only about 8000 tonnes of gold loans are outstanding due to all of this activity, and derivatives now average only about 1/4 or less of 8000tonne total. There may be more in physical gold trading. Perhaps there is a commodities trader out there ( not a rocket scientist ) who knows the general relationship between an average position, and daily activity in a commodity.
As I recall, the US dollar is traded on the derivatives market at $1.4 trillion per day, dwarfing the LBMA ( if I remember correctly ) . Just how much of that dollar activity actually reflects a long- term net position?
Perhaps not much at all! Probably depends on dollar volume for each kind of derivative, and how long it can be traded before it expires. I would guess that the volume in very short- term derivatives could be very high with the dollar, and possibly the sam way with the LBMA.

Our biggest problem is that no one on Kicto seems to know just what types of gold derivatives are traded on the LBMA, so that we could make a volume/duration plot for each type of derivative. It would clearly be of great value to unravel the mysteries of this market.

Donald: Is the Emporor protesting too much? ..... If they state categorically, on Friday, that they will not devalue; it is a sure bet to happen on Monday.

Studio R: Circular file???

Looks like Printin Clintin may have been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Presses are now printing newspaper headlines.

Perhaps we should ask about "realignments" or "adjustments" or words other than devalue?

glad I didn't miss much!!!!:- ) )

I don't think she would be able to affiliate here in OKC. It is widely held here as a certainty that if there had not been a Waco...there would have not been an OKC bombing. Waco cost dearly.

She could join Helen dege- - - - - - . and come out of the closet.

Wait a minute, Mrs. Postman...


In your 06:07 to Preacher you said that evidence

exists that FBI caught 7 Iraqi women , whose v....s

were equiped with bacteriological weapons, and it's

a tip of an iceberg - probably you mean that more Iraqi

women are on their way with their v....s completely loaded...


In your 18:47 you responded to my post to John Disney by

saying that FBI does not find anything and I must learn

about TWA- 800.


Are you saying there is a connection between

TWA- 800, Iraqi women and failed attempts by FBI to

find poisoness bacteria in their v....s?


What I am mising in here?

Ok I am a Goldbug,and would probably have a better price for my shares if President Clinton get into impeachement...
But....
Whom in America can throw the first stone?... Jimmy Sweaggart?

I think that there is a sea of hypocrisy out there....

The most powerfull country on earth deserve to be in the hands of strong young bull,..right?
Or whom said that an old senile male or female or sick person would do the job right?
And a strong young bull is flood with a full stream of hormones right?....It is in the nature`s law.
And he is a very strong one... ho boy still talking and runnig with two pitbulls on his balls , boys what a bull.
The Pope does not have to fight with his hormones.Nature is no more a factor. His young priests... YES.You know what happened everywhere...with that.
A lot of females are looking for adventure without willing to recongnize their own resposability in the matter.
So, if in the unscupulous society of ours,this is the most important sine he commited ,whom are the whitish sepulchre wanting to go and get his head on a silver plater?

Saddly Hillary is the one who is suffering the most.IMVHO.

Look yourself in a mirror...no joke.

PS: all hatchs batten...! Go Ahead...! Ready for the missiles.

Looks like the Plunge Protection team better come to the aid of President Hoser - Talk shows are swarming all over him tonite.

CLITTON is an outright liar and purgerer, and is not fit to lead the greatest nation on earth.
How can you trust such a letcher to have his fingers on the button that could anialate the whole planet ???

Ok MoreGold Go ahead with your sines.

Apparently there is a very good story on the Asian crisis in Barron's.
I think they did a cover story on it.
Can anyone repost it here please.

Sex
Drugs
Deaths
Women
FBI Files
Deflation
Depression
IRS Auddits
Budist Monks
Impeachment
Foreign Payoffs
Cabinet Scandals
Real Estate Scams
Clinton Administration

Wow! Our media's vocabulary is getting pretty dramatic don't you think. "Depression & Impeachment"

Bring out the junk yard dog. James Carville what a jerk! CNN

"Clinton's credibility and popularity high with the American people - they don't seem to care."

Newsweek 20 hrs of tapes. "After listning to the 90 min tape, Anybody would believe that she was having an affair"

HighRise

Looks like the Asian looters got the last bottle of Visine off the shelves. Yahoo can't seem to get the red out.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/japan_pm_s_1.html
Japan PM sees Rubin Asia remark simplistic- media

TOKYO, Jan 22 ( Reuters ) - Japanese Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto was quoted on Thursday as saying that although he had not heard U.S. Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin's remark on Japan's role in the Asia crisis, his view may be simplistic.

In reply to questions from reporters at his official residence, Hashimoto was quoted by Kyodo and Jiji news agencies as saying that while he had not yet heard the remark, ``The currency crisis in Asia is not that simple.''

Rubin said in a speech in Washington on Wednesday: ``A weak Japan is a source of weakness for the region. A strong Japan would be a source of strength for the region.''
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
S.Korea commercial banks' 1997 net turns to loss
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/s_korea_co_1.html
SEOUL, Jan 22 ( Reuters ) - South Korea's central Bank of Korea said on Thursday the country's 26 commercial banks reported a combined loss of 3.92 trillion won, against net profits of 939 billion won in 1996.

The central bank said the commercial banks' operating income dropped 28.4 percent to 3.4 trillion won last year from 4.75 trillion in 1996.

The bank said in a statement the fall in operating income was due largely to a sharp rise in non- performing loans as a result of a series of corporate failures last year.

Commercial banks incurred a combined 2.45 trillion won loss from sell- offs of bad loans and a combined 53.6 billion loss from stock investment, the central bank said.

Loan loss reserves increased by 3.34 trillion won in 1997, compared with an increase of 1.59 trillion won in 1996, the central bank said.

Outstanding loan loss reserves stood at 5.61 trillion won at the end of 1997, compared with 3.59 trillion won a year earlier.

The Korea First Bank's ( 00110.KS ) net turned to a loss of 1.62 trillion won in 1997, against a profit of 6.2 billion won, and Seoulbank's ( 02860.KS ) net loss widened to 916.6 billion won from 166.8 billion, the central bank said.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/aerospace__2.html
FOCUS- Boeing to report first- ever net loss for year
SEATTLE, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - Boeing Co. said on Wednesday it will report the first full- year loss in its 81- year history as a result of charges stemming from production problems and plans to terminate two airplane models.
Boeing said that excluding the charge, its earnings will be in line with expectations of industry analysts, who on average estimate the aerospace giant will post operating earnings of 62 cents a share for last year, compared with $3.40 in 1996. Boeing is scheduled to report its official results on Tuesday.
Even in the depths of the company's worst financial crisis in 1969, the company managed to report net income of $10 million, although only because of a one- time tax gain.
The Asian economic crisis threatens to affect far more deliveries than projected so far by Boeing executives, who have said up to 60 jets could be deferred over the next three years. Heymann said Boeing's backlog of orders for its jumbo 747, its most profitable model, is particularly vulnerable.
``There has never been a more challenging time for commercial despite the fact the Boeing has a more complete lineup than it has ever had in the company's history,'' he said. ``I think defense is increasingly looking more promising than commercial.''
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/aerospace__2.html
FOCUS- Boeing to report first- ever net loss for year
SEATTLE, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - Boeing Co. said on Wednesday it will report the first full- year loss in its 81- year history as a result of charges stemming from production problems and plans to terminate two airplane models.
Boeing said that excluding the charge, its earnings will be in line with expectations of industry analysts, who on average estimate the aerospace giant will post operating earnings of 62 cents a share for last year, compared with $3.40 in 1996. Boeing is scheduled to report its official results on Tuesday.
Even in the depths of the company's worst financial crisis in 1969, the company managed to report net income of $10 million, although only because of a one- time tax gain.
The Asian economic crisis threatens to affect far more deliveries than projected so far by Boeing executives, who have said up to 60 jets could be deferred over the next three years. Heymann said Boeing's backlog of orders for its jumbo 747, its most profitable model, is particularly vulnerable.
``There has never been a more challenging time for commercial despite the fact the Boeing has a more complete lineup than it has ever had in the company's history,'' he said. ``I think defense is increasingly looking more promising than commercial.''
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I almost made it to the sink before loosing supper.

You have my pity, ye duped citizen.

Spud

VRONSKY,
Thanks for the e mail....!
The problems in south east asia sinked further today.The currencies and stocks been draged down by TROBLESOME INDONESIA.The imf loans recently looks NO WAYS to save the country at the moment!the rupiahs will touched u.s.1:15000 very soon..!I'm afraid the politic unstable soon will exploded soon.THAILAND had more aggresive protest,rallies these few weeks.And small riots around the BANGKOK CITY....!
Noticed that the recently,THE WEST AND AMERICAturn full atttentions to the ORIENTAL NOW!
ANY ADVISES.....THANKS!

LIFE SEEMS DRIFTED TO THE EDGE...........

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/s_korea_ba_1.html
S.Korea, banks agree to keep mum on debt proposal

NEW YORK, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - Delegates from South Korea's government said on Wednesday they agreed with global bankers not to reveal details of a proposal presented by Seoul to solve the country's debt crisis.

Speaking to journalists in Korean, Young Hwan Kim, chairman of the joint presidential committee on economic policies, said ``We have agreed not to reveal specific information.''

Visibly tired after all- day meetings, five members of the delegation received a barrage of questions from Korean journalists, and they sidestepped many of them.

``We proposed a plan,'' Yong said, while You Jong- Keun, economic adviser to the president- elect, added: ``We did not discuss their plan; we discussed our plan.''

Asked how many more meetings there might be before a solution is found, Yong said: ``The second meeting is on Friday, and I don't know how many more there might be.'' The delegates said they did not know for certain whether all the banking representatives who appeared Wednesday would continue to be involved in the meetings.

The news conference preceding a dinner was held at a Korean restaurant near Citibank's midtown Manhattan headquarters. It concluded a marathon day of debt- restructuring talks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NY- - S.Korean debt negotions adjourned until Friday
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/ny_s_korea_2.html
NEW YORK, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - International bankers and delegates from South Korea ended another daylong negotiating session, but reached no final agreement on solving South Korea's debt crisis.

In a statement released by Citibank after the meetings had ended, the banks said, ``The negotiations were adjourned until Friday to allow time for the participants to consult with their constituencies.''

While no agreement was reached, the banks said that Korean government representatives discussed, ``Korea's economic program including a debt exchange covering short- term maturities due through the end of 1998.''

The statement reaffirmed comments made by commercial bankers as they were leaving throughout the afternoon.

``The discussions were described as very positive and constructive,'' the banks' statement said.

In addition to hearing a presentation from representatives of the South Korean government, commercial bankers also were briefed by Stanley Fischer, deputy managing director of the International Monetary Fund.

Fischer thanked the banks for ``supporting the maintenance of short- term loans to Korean financial institutions through March 31.''

Bankers leaving the meeting were mum on what progress, if any, had been made on restructring Korea's debt.

Before the meeting began, speculation centered around commerical banks pushing Korea to swap commercial debt for government bonds, or the possiblity of a syndicated loan and a later bond issuance.

But a South Korean delegate told Reuters that Korea was unlikely to go ahead with a large bond offering and preferred a ``bilateral'' approach toward restructuring its short- term debt.

There had been talk that Korea had become more optimistic about its economic situation and was consequently eager to avoid a potentially expensive bond offering.

Representatives of the Government of Korea attending the meeting included Yong Hwan Kim, chairman of the joint presidential committee on economic policies; You Jong- Keun, economic advisor to the president- elect and Chung Duck- Koo, deputy minister of finance and economy.

Fourteen commercial and investment banks attended the talks on Wednesday.

MICHAEL JACKSON FOR PRESIDENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALL,
THE GOLD PRICE AROUND THE REGIONS ARE UNBELIEVEABLE!SHOOT UP LIKED THE ROCKET.THE RETAIL BUSINESSES NEARLY GONE WITH THE WIND!WE CAN COVERED BACK AFTER 15 MINUTES BEEN SOLD!!THE CURRENCIES JUST GONE DOWN TO FAST......!MY SELF NEARLY STOP THE TRADING!
TAKE CARE....

January 21, 1998
S.Korea proposes debt restructuring plan

NEW YORK, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - South Korea proposed a debt restructuring plan to international lenders on Wednesday that would convert short- term bank debt to guaranteed loans, said a banker close to the negotiations.

Under the plan, Korea would offer to swap all Korean banks' existing short- term loans for loans guaranteed by the Korean government and carrying one- to three- year maturities, the banker said. "Anything that is a non- won denominated international obligation of the Korean banking sector...that falls due in 1998 is eligible," he said.

January 21, 1998

S.Korea proposes debt restructuring plan

NEW YORK, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - South Korea proposed a debt restructuring plan to international lenders on Wednesday that would convert short- term bank debt to guaranteed loans, said a banker close to the negotiations.

Under the plan, Korea would offer to swap all Korean banks' existing short- term loans for loans guaranteed by the Korean government and carrying one- to three- year maturities, the banker said. "Anything that is a non- won denominated international obligation of the Korean banking sector...that falls due in 1998 is eligible," he said.

January 21, 1998
S.Korea proposes debt restructuring plan

NEW YORK, Jan 21 ( Reuters ) - South Korea proposed a debt restructuring plan to international lenders on Wednesday that would convert short- term bank debt to guaranteed loans, said a banker close to the negotiations.

Under the plan, Korea would offer to swap all Korean banks' existing short- term loans for loans guaranteed by the Korean government and carrying one- to three- year maturities, the banker said. "Anything that is a non- won denominated international obligation of the Korean banking sector...that falls due in 1998 is eligible," he said.

JIN: Nice to hear from you. I hope you can survive the turmoil in the region. The politicians and corruption must be cleaned up before things can get better. Unfortunately the corruption starts right at the top, IMF and BIS. I feel sorry for the ordinary people that have to suffer.
Good Luck.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Preacher ( Ziva, Mideast War, and Clinton ) ID#225273:
Dear Ziva,

Thank you for the recount. It's hard for me to imagine that China and the
Arabs can unleash the military power that would be any match for the
USA, Israel, and Europe working in concert.

Is it your perspective that China and the Arabs will be able to exert
military power sufficient to challenge the other alliance, or do you believe
that Arabia is using loose U.S. immigration rules to import biological and
other weapons into the country to strike at soft targets from within?

As for Clinton, I guess he figured if Martin Luther King could act that
way and get a national holiday named after him, "then I can too."

The Preacher


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

In WW3 no one needs "Military Power".
Remember what just six people did in Tokyo.
If you think that Saddam Hussein is stupid,
you better think again,
try to remember how many US Presidents he has lasted.

Reading the information from around the world,
it is inconceivable to me that he does not have
his terrorists in every major western city right now.
After all it is the only insurance he has.
And we know it too.

So do not pay attention to whatever you hear from politicians,
we can not afford to kill him.

Talking about killing Saddam,
read the Israeli Press on the Internet.
Israel has some of the best websites in the world,
( and I am not saying that just because I am Jewish ) .
Last year,
Israel's largest daily newspaper: 'Yediot Aharonot',
printed a story about a group of Rabbis
who tried to kill Saddam using 'Remote Influencing',
during the Gulf War.
Unfortunately the attempt had backfired,
and the son of one of the rabbis died.

'Remote Influencing' is an extension of 'Remote Viewing'.
I did notice last year that in this group,
there are some disinformation agents,
who tried to convince us that
there is no such a thing as 'Remote Viewing'.
Every one of you can find the truth alone,
USE THE INTERNET !

Re: Clinton,,,,,,LEAVE THE GUY ALONE!!!!!!!!
He is just reading the script.
Exactly the same as the guy who is reading your evening news on TV.
Do you really thing that he is formulating US policy ???


Re: the Martin Luther King,
my neighbor told me:
"I hate it when the government is shoving
a black holiday down my throat,
but at least I caught three snappers."

I have much more to say about how we have been manipulated,
but you better read the scientific evidence for yourself in the book:
'The Bell Curve', I think it is by two Harvard professors.

Check it out!

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980121/focus_st_l_3.html
FOCUS- St Louis Fed's Melzer downplays deflation
``The way to make monetary policy more accountable, in my view, is ... by establishing a clear, achievable mandate for monetary policy ... over a multi- year horizon,'' Melzer said.
``Financial crises have been associated with major cycles of inflation followed by disinflation,'' Melzer noted. ``Inflation had encouraged the speculative excesses that disinflation revealed.''

without John Lennon. Where the hell are the leaders of our group? EB...Phone Home! Sheller...You're the Star! CherOkee...The mobile is broke down! Help!!!!! Hell, even LGB is on sabatical. Help!~!! tolerant#1 Wake up!!!! They're throwin' tomatoes at us!

I had a nice post written for you, but it apparently got lost in cyber space. I will not waste any more time on the likes of you.

Reading your post makes me very sad, you are not a joke, you are real, and that is very scary.

HighRise

Ziva, next time you see Saddam,

tell this smartest one to buy gold...

We need his help...

The judge was perspicacious. Gotta give him that!
Po' ol' wjbc din't hev nufin but a alcoholic mama and stepdad to raise him 'n' bro rog.
Had there been a man in the house, I sincerely doubt either of them would have been fair game for the predators.
There are people out there who are alert for young boys of intellectual promise and who have not been raised with any core values.
These are cultured and aided as was wjbc, until they are ready to be used. If they make the grade, they stand a good chance of becoming Rhodes Scholars.
The man ( his mentor ) who guided clintin thru georgetown was one F. Carroll Quigley, author of a very weighty tome entitled "Tragedy and Hope".
I had need to read the entire 1800+pages some 20 and more years ago.
The Hope was that the people of the U.S. would awaken to the benefits of the State as propounded by the Elitists. The Tragedy as expressed by Quigley was that they had ( at time of writing ) not acquiesced.
Enter myriads of critters like clintin and gore and their ilk. Some demos, some repubs. All elitists!
Before anyone takes extreme issue with this, I suggest the BOOK BE READ!

Such scurrilous matter I believe, can not be accepted by one who is raised in a home with loving, God fearing parents and who is taught social mores and responsibility.
Guess what I'm tryna say is Tolerant! was one of the fortunate ones, as
were most of us on this forum.
Our very contrarian bent proves my point.
We need not the accolades of any mentors or elite leaders. We can accept our own decisions and choices as adequate and preferable to gansterdom of the would be rulers over the entire planet.

U R WASTING OUR TIME.
CALL SADDAM YOURSELF.

Did you have a sexual relationship with ...
There is not a sexual relationship.
Answer the question Mr. President!
"Fancy word play and legal ambiguity"

With all the world economic problems that already exist, this is going to make matters much worse. The US was the only thing holding things together. In fact - Clinton's double talk was the only thing holding the world together.

We may have a new ball game people. God help us! Saddam be careful don't miss- read the situation and push it now.

HighRise

http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/21/clinton.starr.pm/

Ziva, i would call, but

your ZIVA@REAL returns message "host unknown"....

There they go again! Talking about gold backing of, or linking the dollar to gold! Damn fools! Don't they know gold is only a paper weight????

Listening to RUSH ( not limbough ) . Can't make up my mind as to which is more appropriate tune, "Distant Early Warning", "Mystic Rythms", or "Red sector A"????

Another piece of silliness today, did anyone notice the dollar sell off today along with Clinton's inability to keep it in his pants being in the news?

Perhaps the markets are churning???? :- )

Hillary has been busy with 'things' of her own. The one I feel sorry for is Chelsea. As far as the Buba goes, he is a terminalogicalinexactudarian. And he believes it too!

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 12:05
Allen ( USA ) ( What's a v.......s ) ID#246224:
veils???

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

I do not know how to explain......
I will just say that girls are different than boys.
Girls have something that start with V.

Oris, you are much better than me,
can you please explain it to Allen ?

Roosevelt also set up the Securities Exchange Commission, to see to it that no new faces got into the Wall Street gang, which caused the following colloquy in Congress:

REPRESENTATIVE WOLCOTT" At hearings before this committee in 1933, the economists showed us charts which proved beyond all doubt that the dollar value of commodities followed the price level of GOLD. **It did not, did it?? **

LEON HENDERSON: ** NO **

REPRESENTATIVE GIFFORD: Wasn't Joe Kennedy put in [ as Chairman of the Securities Exchange Committee ] by President Roosevelt because he was sympathetic with big business??

LEON HENDERSON: ** I think so **

1935 Paul Einzig pointed out:
"President Roosevelt was the first to declare himself openly in favor of a monetary policy aiming at a deliberately engineered rise in prices. In a negative sense his policy was successful. Between 1933 and 1935 he succeeded in reducing private indebtedness, but this was done at the cost of increasing public indebtedness."

In other words, he eased the burden of debt off of the rich onto the poor, since the rich are few and the poor many.

Franklin D. Roosevelt himself was an international banker of ill repute, having floated large issues of foreign bonds in this country in the 1920's These bonds defaulted, and our citizen's lost millions of dollars, but they still wanted Mr. Roosevelt as President.

The New York Directory of Directors lists Mr. Roosevelt as President and Director of United European Investments, Ltd., in 1923 and 1924, which floated many millions of German marks in this country, all of which defaulted.

Poor's Directory of Directors lists him as a director of The International Germanic Trust Company in 1928. Franklin D. Roosevelt was also an advisor to the Federal International Banking Corporation, an Anglo- American outfit dealing in foreign securities in the United States.

Roosevelt's law firm of Roosevelt and O'Connor during the 1020's represented many international corporations. His law partner, Basil O'Connor, was a director in the following corporations:

Cuban- American Manganese Corporation, Venezuela_Mexican Oil Corporation, Honduras Timber Corporation, Federal International Corporation, West Indies Sugar Corporation American Reserve Insurance Corporation, Warm Springs Foundation. He was director in other corporations, and later head of the American Red Cross.

When Roosevelt took office as President of the United States. One of the first things he did was to declare a bankers' **MORATORIUM**, to help the bankers get their records in order.

What about "The Big Money"..... RUSH ( not limbaugh ) , I love em!

You can get all the poon you want and your wife won't care...hell, the country won't care. Sad commentary, eh? Everyone's saying the indiscretion doesn't matter...the perjury solicitation...maybe? Gawd! I need a drink.

You realy want the world and the United States to be in a turmoil for a zipper problem.

His is the president whom YOU elected.As Ziva mentioned it:

Re: Clinton,,,,,,LEAVE THE GUY ALONE!!!!!!!!

He is just reading the script.

Exactly the same as the guy who is reading your evening news on TV.

Do you really thing that he is formulating US policy ???

.

StarShine - - Yup, a good contender for the list! Come to think of it, ( as I edit the play list ) it probably is the winner to night. Now, how come there isn't anything to drink around here????!

"TZADEAK* ( @ Is there a Rocket Scientist at Kitco with NEW MATH skills
that can explain this? ) ID#372344:
The average daily turnover in Gold for the month of December was
1359 TONS! according to the World Gold Council weekly report.
Let's see that's about 28,000 TONS traded in December???
What's wrong with this math?
Are they counting physical Gold and or paper Gold?"

Turnover is a term from the retail industry. There it refers to how many times your inventory is sold and expressed as a multiplier.

1359 TONS is not a multiplier.

Remember when Tyler took physical delivery and there was one certificate delivered to her, a warehouse receipt for the gold, and on the back there were several broker names. And she wanted them to put her name on it ?

Now, I think whoever has physical possession of that warehouse receipt is the person who can go and have it moved to another warehouse. That is not a transaction, but it would change the numbers reported for that warehousse's inventory. But, everytime a spot sale of gold is made, this warehouse receipt is delivered. The gold doesn't move around; just his paper warehouse receipt moves around. So the only figure which tells you if gold is going into or out of circulation is the amount in the warehouse, not the volume of "sales". 1359 must be a sales figure expressed not in paper currency terms but in units of product terms.

Three factors affect how much gold is in the market ( i.e. the warehouses ) . How much is consumed or fabricated and how much is hoarded and how much is produced.

The CB loan of gold and the CB sale of gold amount to the same thing: reduction of hoarding.

But we been told by Butler that the quantity of this currency called gold is being banked somewhere, that hoarding is increasing somewhere even as it decreases in the Central Banks. that the amount of it in circulation is going down. Are physical stocks in the market warehouses going down ? This will eventually be reflected in the price because consumption means the market must be resupplied.

I do not see how to know the quantity gold loans in tons from the usual market figures although there should have been detectable increases in warehouse inventory in excess of the increases expected from production. If somebody had purchased the warehouse receipt for the CB's loaned gold with an intent to hoard and not trade, could they have presented it at the CB's warehouse and it would not show in the market figures at all ?

Good Points! For a minute there I thought you were going to tell me
that you were not a rocket scientist, but you played on one TV!
Perhaps we can begin by taking the 8000 tons a la Veneroso and
multiply them by four ( weeks ) should get us close to the monthly total of about 30,000 tons for December, which could mean these trades have a duration of about a week?

But if you say that the majority of said trades is the physical, is it being lend out on a weekly basis?

Any way one looks at these numbers they are huge when considering
they correspond to the entire holdings of all CB's, which can only
certainly mean very large price moves up in POG to cover said loans
and at same time possibly decrease demand? at a time when the
entire world is starting to lose faith in paper.

Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm70.htm

Up, Up and Away!

Clinton needs a Middle East situation climaxing into a armed confrontation and you can bet Hillery is looking at Sadaam to defuse the White Whore House.

It seems to me that peoples are loosing their head too quickly on this one.A kind of farwest syndroms for lynching.

Brian Williams is currently anchoring extended
coverage of FORNIGATE ( Clintons latest sexual
escapade at the Grey House ) Surprisingly it
seems to be fairly balanced coverage.

Snowbird -

If you have read my posts over the months, I was telling anybody who would listen that I didn't believe in this whole silver shortage thing. The trouble is, I then layed in some shorts and got stopped out on a 40 cent gap up.

You are absolutely correct that there is no shortage of deliverable silver in the world. London doesn't report stocks. Tonnes are routinely between here and there. There is plenty of silver in the world. All this is true.

Silver will still rise. Silver is a purely manipulated market. One can make excellent profits by simply following the big money. I believe the big players - J. Arron, Republic, Smith Barney, et al want it to run.

This is where things get tricky for most people. Americans are a savvy lot, and our cynicism runs deep. We have no trouble believing in any number of machinations, manipulations, back room deals, and fixes. This is America, after all, the home of the DEAL. But when it comes time to accept that the fix is in, and simply follow the big boys who fixed the whole damn thing to start with, many become squeamish. Let's face it, this is not a pretty business. But we are talking about the origins of avarice here. Silver and gold bring out the base in man belying the label: "Noble Metals".

We can never hope to know what they know, or see the valley from quite their lofty perspective high on the summit. We can, however, watch and learn. With a keen and sober eye, we can often discern just what it is that they may be up to, hopefully before its all over. They will not tell us how they play, but we may pick up a few moves if we pay attention.

Whats worse Clinton with his zipper open, or Al Gore in the Whiite House? Now thats really Scary!

Oliver: It is almost possible to feel some sympathy for Hillary ...... but not quite. The only person, directly involved, who deserves a little sympathy is Chelsea. .... but then again, our best lessons are often learned early in life. So it shall be for her. ...... Wonder how long it will take for Bruno and the Chelsea kid to cut loose from Billy ( with the ) Bent One, after the dust settles.

Even more troubling is the prospect of Gore filling in for wonderful willy.

I think the question of the Chinese connection via Riady and Lippo is a serious problem for us. The term 'sold out' comes to mind. The real question is, "What got sold?" Also of note is that the ghost of Faust has been seen lurking around the white house....

Ziva, Allen ( USA ) knows...

Ziva, how do you prepare tabulli? ( my spelling is wrong,

but you know what I mean )

1/21/98 - - 10:46 PM

Gold opens higher in Hong Kong HONG KONG ( AP ) - Gold in
Hong Kong rose the equivalent of $1.40 an ounce on Thursday,
to open at $293.45, compared with Wednesday's Hong Kong
close of $292.05. The U.S. dollar Thursday was at 7.7365 Hong
Kong dollars, compared with Wednesday's 7.7400.
^AP- ES- 01- 21- 98 2241EST TAMPA- 01- 21- 98 2242EDT 


HONG KONG ( AP ) - Gold in Hong Kong rose the equivalent of $1.40 an ounce on Thursday, to open at
$293.45, compared with Wednesday's Hong Kong close of $292.05.

The U.S. dollar Thursday was at 7.7365 Hong Kong dollars, compared with Wednesday's 7.7400.

Clitton sends his upmost appreciation for defending him.
He did ask one thing though, if you know a young attractive nubile female could you send her over to the whitehouse for Friday night?

Attached file from WSJ

I don't know if I am worthy enough to even respond to your reply
to my querry, what with my living in the "GHETTO".
I believe you owe me and all Canadians an deserving apology.

But to respond to your response I was referring to the amount of tons traded in London LBMA, I thought that was understood, although
I must admit I may not have made clear enough, and not COMEX.

Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 12:42
RLM ( Ziva- Art Bell? ) ID#402191:
Ziva

Just found your post on Art Bell. Do you know where he broadcasts from
so I can contact them to see if he is on in my locality?

Also, where are the "archives" you mentioned?

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

He is broadcasting on over 400 stations, 5 hours daily.
choose one station next to you here:
http://www.artbell.com/stations.html>http://www.artbell.com/stations.html

This is his website:
http://www.artbell.com/

Archives:
http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/artbell.html

and much more:
http://www.artbell.com/topics.html
http://www.artbell.com/guests.html

Earl, if the Bubba goes down, so to will the Gory one. After all, who was at that temple???? Collecting checks no less? :- )

Gawd, aren't we Americans something! Nothing like a good sexual scandal coupled with many 'deaths' and high intrigue to get us going! :- ) )

Oliver's sexist and tasteless comments deserve to be blessed by God? You can't be serious?

HighRise

Panda: It's just an HTML file uploaded to the FTP site. What's the problem????

The attachment doesn't seem to work? Thanks for trying to post the story!

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a70326.htm

I know, I know. Billions to 1 odds are not enough as in OJ.

Who ARE Dennis Rodman and Maddona.......?

Are they just good friends?

Anyway, what was that rumour concerning Bill Clinton and Maddona ....

Speed, you're talking to someone who has succesfully killed Windows NT 4.0 four times in the last week and half! It was a wonderful learning experience, NOT! MS- DOS and 120 Meg floppies make a great backup medium for the registry and profiles though... Who said DOS was dead? I knew I kept this dual boot system for a reason. A Pentium II running DOS to save Win NT 4.0 :- ) ) :- ) ) :- ) )

To all:

The Asian markets turned down sharply in the last two hours. Indonesia, for instance, which was up over 4% is now down over 5% . Japan was just down fractionally and it lost a full % point more.

In the past, when the Asian markets faltered, gold has gone down with them. Hopefully, the Asian markets bottomed on Jan. 12 and this is just a retracement.

Gold is short- term overbought and needs a breather. It does need to stay above the previous low of $278.50 to have the technical basis for a new bull run.

Watch closely now! Pay, I say, pay attention when I'm talkin' to you there, boy.

The Preacher

If your a friend of liberty under just law, your're a friend of mine, politically speaking, wherever you live or hail from.

So, let's talk about markets. Are you aying my observations would apply to COMEX but not to LDMA or Hong Kong ? If so, why ?

Oliver ( HighRise ) ID#65207: YOU POSTED
You realy want the world and the United States to be in a turmoil for a zipper
problem.

His is the president whom YOU elected.As Ziva mentioned it: 

OLIVER:
First, NO, I dont want world turmoil, I did not say that I did, so please do not miss- quote me!
and Second, I did not elect the Jerk, people like you, who have a very low set of values did.

HighRise

How to End Currency Gyrations

By JUDY SHELTON

The global economy remains vulnerable to turmoil as Asia struggles to contain the financial fallout from money meltdown. Social unrest has been increasing throughout Indonesia, and Hong Kong's soaring interest rates have contributed to mass bankruptcies. A potential breakdown in international commerce looms as protectionist resentment aimed at countries with cheapened currencies threatens to undermine decades of progress toward global free trade.

We have reached a critical decision point in economic and political terms: Do we attempt to establish some kind of international monetary system or continue with the prevailing free- for- all approach to currency
relations? Do we take action to restore stable exchange rates- - or do nothing?

Doing nothing, in any situation, is always an option; sometimes it is the best option. But to maintain status quo currency arrangements is to invite further disruptions to international markets, greater economic and social dislocations, bigger bailouts and increased political tensions. We may already have crossed the threshold at which U.S. taxpayers are unwilling to foot the bills of the International Monetary Fund. Harried officials of the IMF and theClinton administration race around the globe, setting up buckets from Jakarta to Moscow, imploring well- off nations to pay for bigger and bigger sponges. Yet they offer no plan for fixing the leaky roof.

Universal Approach

The other option is to do something. But what? What we have today is the worst of all worlds: a chaotic exchange- rate regime that determines the value of money by the frenzied actions of currency market speculators and politically motivated finance officials, rather than by any objective standard. How can we take definitive steps toward establishing a stable
international monetary order?

To change the prevailing situation is to move toward either pure floating rates or solid fixed rates. In either case, the approach must be universal, with all participating nations observing the same ground
rules. Conceivably, a system of pure floating rates could bring about monetary stability. But it would require a radical departure from current practice to make it happen. For one thing, genuinely free currency markets could hardly permit coordinated central bank actions and government officials' "jawboning" strategies to manipulate exchange rates.

Such conduct by powerful insiders constitutes collusion and thwarts the operation of free markets. The distinguished economist and Nobel laureate Friedrich A. Hayek went so far as to suggest in 1975
that governments were ill- suited to play any useful role in a free- market approach to currencies. In Hayek's view, a true free- market monetary system would mean replacing government money with competing private currencies. Only then could the public expect to be provided with money it could trust, since private issuers would have an incentive to
maintain the value of their currencies. "Unlike government," Hayek observed, "a private issuer must supply the public with a money as good as that of his rivals or go out of business."

Are we ready to go this route? With advances in telecommunications and computer technology, it is certainly within the realm of possibility that a private issuer could introduce a global unit of account as an
innovative monetary "product." With collapsing government- issued currencies imparting unacceptable levels of risk to cross- border trade, such an alternative medium of exchange might be well- received by the global business community.

But even if private currencies could furnish more reliable money than is now available, the fact is that we do have legal- tender laws. Governments may be willing to relinquish discretionary control for the higher purpose of preserving monetary integrity, but they are loath to give up the powerful symbolism inherent in national money. And, truth be told,
citizens are psychologically conditioned to government- issued currency with its pictorial representations of national heroes, cultural icons and
historical achievements.

Still, the challenge for governments is to establish a stable monetary regime within the context of a global economy. That means a multilateral agreement either to abandon national currencies in favor of a world
currency, or to structure a fixed- exchange rate system among national currencies. The former approach is unappealing for all the reasons now arising as Europe prepares to adopt a single currency managed by a
pan- European central bank: fear of the superstate, lack of credibility, diffused responsibility. Most damaging is the absence of a clear mechanism for calibrating the money supply to the needs of diverse
economies.

The more promising avenue for global monetary reform is to structure a fixed- exchange rate system that permits individual nations to participate on an equal footing in accordance with a common set of rules governing fiscal and monetary conduct. The chief objective would be to eliminate the potential for competitive depreciations by ensuring that all
member nations were effectively using the same unit of account.

Money is supposed to serve as a measure so that individuals can make rational decisions about spending and investing. But as our failed experiment with floating rates has shown, when the value of money is up for grabs, it loses this essential function. Asset values are distorted across borders and financial miscalculations are made; market "bubbles"
develop, spreading to real estate and other sectors. The stage is set for economic meltdown.

If we are to maximize the gains from free trade in a global economy, we must restore order to global currency relations. To set up a fixed- exchange rate system would require imposing discipline on
governments to issue national currencies within the restraints of a monetary mechanism based on convertibility into a designated reserve asset. One obvious way is to set up currency boards in every country except the United States; the U.S. dollar would then serve as the key currency for the world's money supply, and global monetary policy would be set by the Federal Reserve in Washington.

This would result in a tighter version of the Bretton Woods system that reigned from 1947 until 1971; like its predecessor, it would provide a stable monetary foundation to support international trade. But this
approach has some obvious monetary and political drawbacks.

It would be missing the anchor of gold convertibility that prevailed under Bretton Woods, which permitted foreign central banks to redeem $35 for an ounce of gold at their option. Also, the U.S. would bear full
responsibility for controlling the world level of base money- - and would inevitably incur the resentment of its allies and trade partners, having no recourse to any objective reference or universal standard for
justifying its monetary policy.

Harness the Markets

A better approach, one more suited to the preferences of Americans and the needs of a global economy of nations in varying stages of market
development, would be to establish an international monetary system based on a universally accepted standard of value. Gold is the obvious monetary
anchor for reasons of global recognition and historical association with value.

A new global gold standard should not rely on physical reserves of gold, though, but rather on central banks' willingness to issue financial futures contracts that guarantee redemption of the national currency into gold at a fixed rate. The power of today's financial markets could be harnessed to expand or contract the supply of national moneys in accordance with expectations about the future. The actions of speculators would have a stabilizing effect as their purchases or sales of government securities would move the relative values of currencies and gold toward their equilibrium fixed rate.

It is time to work seriously toward a global gold standard updated for today's sophisticated financial markets- - one that would provide the foundation of sound money needed to preserve the doctrine of free
trade and reap the economic rewards of comparative advantage. As Winston Churchill declared: "I never worry about action, but only about inaction."



Ms. Shelton, an economist and author of "Money
Meltdown" ( Free Press, 1994 ) , serves on the board of
Empower America, in Washington.

You must know how to fix tabulli.

Please answer, I need to now. I'm trying
to fix my own at this very moment, but
something is missing.

"You can't stereo type a whole nation of people by who they elect...".

Aye, I suppose that you have got a point. I know the feeling well, there is no such thing as a "Stereo" type Scotsman.

Where is that claymore...............

Aye, Haggis

I keep a rollout directory on my server at work to reinstall NT 4.0 and all of the apps when a machine craters. I know how you feel.

SWC was hurt by the mutual funds selling, I think. The SI thread has some folks talking 38- 50 by year- end! I hope so. Go DROOY and SSC!

I'll answer you this once. That was not a proper apology.
I am assuming you took math in school.
The total number of open interest contracts in Comex about 190M
or about 600 tons, about 1/2 days trades in LBMA.
Get the picture?

If I go here
ftp://ftp.kitcomm.com/pub/discussion/
and search for Shelton.html, click on it, I get the story.

I'm too tired to figure this one out right now.........

Time to hit the hay........ good night all.

Speed: Thanks for the Judy Shelton link. She walks among giants, IMO. Her idea of a gold standard is an interesting one. ...... too bad you other people are unable to read it. Eh? ..... I could, only because I replaced the memory in this old 486 machine this evening. ..... I'm sure that is the reason. ..... Now I don't have to listen to the HD sound like a popcorn popper all evening. ..... Judy Shelton is one capable person. Has her stuff wired tightly together.

I have got an immense problem with liars, whether there a kid or the President of the United States....and I have just as big a problem with a jerk that thinks a liar is o.k.. I've got an immense problem with a cheater, whether it's a kid or the President of the United States...and I've got a big problem with a jerk that thinks a cheater is o.k. Don't think for a moment that what was just said by you ( Ziva and Oliver ) will be eroded by time and forgotten...forever you two jerks will represent disgrace to me and my family. You do not exist.

"A new global gold standard should not rely on physical reserves of gold,
though, but rather on central banks' willingness to issue financial
futures contracts that guarantee redemption of the national currency
into gold at a fixed rate".

Gien what is happening in Asia at this time, and possible future similar scenarios elsewhere.......ALOT OF GOLD WILL BE REQUIRED.....just in case!

Financial futures contracts.....did they cause the Asian problem ?

IMF seeks to calm Asia fears
Michel Camdessus, managing director of the International Monetary Fund,
yesterday rejected fears that the Asian crisis would unleash a deflationary wave through the world economy.
http://www.ft.com/hippocampus/v7d712.htm

Cook sees successful start to Chinese rule in Hong Kong
Hong Kong has made a successful start to its transition from British to Chinese sovereignty, in spite of continued concerns over democracy in the territory,Robin Cook, Britain's foreign secretary, said yesterday.
http://www.ft.com/hippocampus/v7d292.htm

P& G venture: Vietnam loan curb leads to default
Procter & Gamble, the US producer of personal care products, said
yesterday that Vietnam's central bank had ordered a freeze on new lending to its local joint venture, forcing it to default on existing borrowings and dealing a blow to sagging investor confidence in the country.
http://www.ft.com/hippocampus/v7d6b2.htm

panada- bear- - - -

for one- - - the chinese got a deep water port on the west coast...
the very same one which our marines requested after their base
was destroyed in the recent san fran quake...

the chinese were given the nod from 'somewhere' in the white house
of shame........

klinton is going down......the devil made him do it...

this is it.............chaos and flux, they's amux us all.........

realistic- - - - -
grains in a sucker rally.....they're still coming down......patience....
watch the america's curriencies.......euro's too......slaughter coming..
equities....tam bien......sheller knows.....

the diaspora is well nigh upon us.....i can hear the lawnmower.....
first- aid kit at the ready......options in place and awaiting their
moment of fame......

the flame- thrower and the lawn- mower- - - - - - - - - - better have your @ss
outta- the- way- - - - - - - - - - chaos and flux care not for prisoners....

cherokee!;...awaiting- the- bitter- harvest- - - - - - with- mre's- and- 30'06..

In order to solve Americas' and Bill Clintons' problems, I recon that we should all chip- in and buy Bill a Kilt........he just wouldn't have the problems that he gets himself into.

Think about it..........NO ZIPS..........

I'm not too sure about the Clinton tartan colours..........

You posted this question to me:
"Do you really thing that he is formulating US policy ???"

NO, If you had been reading my posts in the past, you would know that I agree with you on this one. Who got Clinton out of the draft?

IMHO They have to put Gore in before the election to gaurantee his election. That could be a reason for Reno's not going after Clinton on the White House fund raising - that would have taken Gore down too. Just a thought.

HighRise

That last post was to you.

HighRise

" Al Gore is just an orgasm away from the presidency" Jay Leno

Haggis: You keep asking those questions 'n yer likely to learn more about American culture than is good or safe for a man of your saintly dimension.

Madonna is an entertainer ( natch ) with a reported ( by her ) libido easily equal to our sainted pres. It is rumored that she finds it easy to switch sexual allegiance if occasion demands and circumstances permit.

Dennis Rodman on the other hand, is also an entertainer. A pro basketball player who is gender challenged. Is it only for public consumption or for real? I don't think anyone except the press and Rodman's publicist really care.

This august gathering is in danger of being sullied and your immortal soul imperiled, by further discussion of the matter.

......that Bill, Hillary and Madonna could ALL be very good friends ?!

"Another President brought down by deep throat." Jay Leno

"Hillary's new book "It takes a village to keep an eye on my husband!" Jay Leno

HighRise

Though Kitco site shows gold at highest for the day now- at about 294 and change. Lets hope it's realiance on asian markets going up, dollar down, etc are ended. these were just excuses made retrospectively to explain drops.

Moneyline at 11:40 PM EST was interrupted for live report that the Rupiah is in a virtual free- fall. Report by Casey Wian stated that the currency was down by as much as 30% before agressive CB intervention to cut loss to 10% Trading range was stated as 12,500 - 15,000.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a70300.htm

The socialist news media seems to have turned against him.

Highrise: I thought it was Sen. Fulbright who helped the slick/slithering one to evade the draft but my memory could be wrong. But have you noticed the facial resemblance to a prominent family part of which resides in AR? There is a way- out conspiracy theory to that effect. Maybe the resident Arkansan, a.j., can help us out.

Re: Oliver and Viva, Well Put!
THANK YOU!

HighRise

Studio, Ziva don't know what tabulli is.

Ziva likes Saddam H., UFO's and Bill C.

Do you think Ziva is Ziva? I don't.

BTW, did your hear about "Boney- M"?

And when should I start selling chocolate?

Haggis: I'm still mulling over that futures business by the issuing authority. Superficially, which is the only way I can think, it sounds like a workable system.

He who issues a convertable currency would have to enter the futures market for the gold to cover redemptions. Thus the gold market would almost instantly record the judgment of holders of that currency. ...... but I still don't trust the business to a damn political system. Gold regulates itself. It doesn't need political intervention.

a.j.
your story about Carol Quigley jogged my poor memory, here is a post from last year, perhaps before you joined us, I hope you enjoy it as did I:

Date: Wed Sep 24 1997 18:08
Neophyte ( Intrinsic value ) ID#389223:
LGB: You pose interesting questions sometimes, so let me return the favor. It is a question once asked by the late Carroll Quigley at the School of Foreign Service,
Georgetown University. the question: You and I are alone in a room in which there is a million dollars ( or gold bars ) stacked in one corner and a machine gun in the other corner. You can move to one or the other but not both. Which do you pick up and why?


aurarecall

Ok Studio R, please cool down.

I did not elected Pres. Clinton because I am a Canadian.

Secondly I am proud of my my life, retired and married 35 years with the same sweethearth I met when I was 20.

I was under the impression that the great American buddy was no more with the Napoleon LAW ( meaning guilty till proven otherwise. ) I was wrong I suppose when I think about you as more tollerant than us.Well I feel quite differently this evening. It seems to me that nothing will change the mind of a number of peoples which realy want get rid of the leader of the country.I feel so much hate...

HigRise Strad MoreGold Studio, good fight..love you brothers,

Good nigth

Sam, are you here?

Did you try to call Mc- Master?

ASIAN STOCK MARKETs again awash in red, Red. REd, RED, RED!

NEW YEARS MUSINGS: More Tears Than Joy

John Kutyn is undoubtedly one of last years most brilliant and perceptive analysts on the Domino Effect sweeping through Southeast Asia. His insightful take on currency chaos and stock market turmoil paint a grim picture of what the new year holds for the countries of that area... indeed what the ramifications are for the rest of the world. Following are a few of his random thoughts on the region. Additionally, he shares his opinion of the precarious condition of the Japanese Banking System, and what we might brace ourselves for in 1998.

Edit out the space in the following URL, then copy/paste to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.
http://www.gold- eagle.com/gold_digest_98/kutyn010198.html

The basic, simple and delicious version- - all of this is to taste

More chopped parsley
chopped green onions ( scallions )
fresh chopped mint
cracked bulgar wheat ( coarser than fine, #2 )
chopped fresh tomatos

( you can bastardize it with cucumbers and other crap but don't )

Dressing, the four basic ingredients of life

Salt
Olive oil
Fresh squeezed lemon juice
garlic

That's it; enjoy!

PS You can add cumin as a spice very lightly, but it's too easy to bend the flavors out of whack if you do...be a purest like everyone here seems to be about gold.

"The distinguished economist and Nobel
laureate Friedrich A. Hayek went so far as to suggest in 1975
that governments were ill- suited to play any useful role in a free-
market approach to currencies. In Hayek's view, a true free- market
monetary system would mean replacing government money with competing
private currencies. Only then could the public expect to be provided
with money it could trust, since private issuers would have an incentive
to
maintain the value of their currencies. "Unlike government," Hayek
observed, "a private issuer must supply the public with a money as good
as that of his rivals or go out of business." "

The history of the United States contains the answer to this Paper Chase mess for any federation. The US Constitution forbids any State from issuing bills of credit ( fiat paper money ) or from making anything but gold and silver coin a tender for debt ( this means all State taxes are potentially even today payable only in gold and silver; does your non- gold or silver holding neighbor know that ? ) Before this provision was gotten around by the Butler Act in the 1930's by which States could collect greenbacks by taxing "in a federal area", this is how it was from the beginning of the Republic. One of the first crisises in US history involved the Bank of the United States, a federally chartered bank. The federal government used its power to give this bank advantages vis a vis the State banks. Andrew Jackson shut it down ( death threats did not deter Old Hickory ) . So, before the War of Northern Aggression, State government had the power to charter Banks. This meant there were many private issuers of money as Hayek recommends. People were responsible for the consequences of dealing with dishonest bankers. But, if a bank failed, the damage was limited because there were so many banks. A prudent man would diversify where he deposited his gold and securities and such. However, the Federal Reserve System put all of the participating banks under one set of regulations. Banks were gotten into the system by various incentives. So, when the stock market crashed and all that potential gain money evaporated and a bank run ensued and, in fact, the whole federal reserve banking system was broke, the consequences were nationwide.

So, the model is that in each federation, the US State equivalent level of government in that federation should have the power to charter banks which would be authorized to issue currency against its assets and this power not concentrated at the national level where such concentration becomes a monopoly on currency and prevents free market forces from keeping government borrowing and spending and printing of fiat currency under control.

I would have much preferred to have delivered my disgust to them face to face. I regret the "hiding" factor...I believe that I would have been more effective in combatting this kind of thinking in an actual encounter. Thank you for standing beside me, I am there for you two also....anytime, anyplace. Go Goldbugs.

Studio R: Count me among your team. Clinton may be operating from a script written by his corporate and political masters but there is nothing in the that script about the financial gains available by regressing to moral turpitude. In point of fact, he has a duty to set a moral tone for the country at large. In that he has failed. Not just by choice but by character. He imperils us all with his immature crap.

.....only this time it won't only be physical gold that is bought, but also the gold mines..........

Mineral Deposits of Indonesia - Discoveries of the Past 25 Years.
Journal of Geochemical Exploration
Volume 50, Nos 1 to 3
March 1994.


The Indonesian archipelago, 13 000 islnads, stretching for a total of
9 000 Km, with 80% of the islands containing known mineral deposits....

Au rich porphyry copper deposits, Porphyry Mo deposits, skarn Cu Au deposits, sediment hosted Au deposits, low sulphidation epithermal Au deposits, high sulphidation epithermal Au Cu deposits, volcanogenic massive sulphide Au deposits.

The difference between Korea and Indonesia.......Indonesia is a BIGGER prize in terms of GOLD.

didn't you post a reference to your site about some guy that did the adtrological chart about the stock market, Bill Clinton and Alan Greenspan, that all foretold some crisis in January or such...do you have that reference handy?

Fresh Warnings That U.S. Risks Asian Backlash
By Michael Richardson International Herald Tribune

SINGAPORE - Senior officials of the United States and the International Monetary Fund started crucial talks in East Asia on Sunday that they hope will help settle the region's financial crisis, but the harsh economic policies they advocate could trigger an anti- American backlash that will create dangerous instability in Asia, former U.S. officials and other analysts warned. ( This 1/12/98- but worth a read anyway )
http://www.iht.com/IHT/MR/98/mr011298a.html

Speed@Shelton.Editorial How to End Currency Gyrations
Many thanks for a great post ( of a particular FAVORITE of
mine! [:- ) Thanks again...

I hate liars and I hate criminals.