Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:02 - ID#227238)
"I'm not too sure about the Clinton tartan colours.........."
Haggis: Yellow. .... Solid yellow. .... or for Sunday goin' to meetin' attire, solid black with a white vertical stripe in back. ..... yer asking the right questions now.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:03 - ID#238422)
Robby Hanna
Thank you very much.

I really love this stuff.

You're right, it should be pure like gold...

Will try to do it again tomorrow, I screwed up

with wheat and put too much salt.

Best regards.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:04 - ID#31868)
Good grief. Just awakened. Tuned in and saw vronsky's post about Asia. Went to Yahoo and looked over the numbers. Those poor people over there.


Robby Hanna__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:08 - ID#356196)
Oris, you're welcome and oops, forgot to mention about the wheat...

Make sure you soak the wheat for about 5 to ten minutes in lukewarm water, the drain and squeeze out the excess water and let stand to open and soften in the fridge till its easy to eat.

then, again follow as below with wheat and parsley in proportion to your taste, least of all in quantity is the green onions, and for my money, you can't overdue the fresh mint:

More chopped parsley
chopped green onions ( scallions )
fresh chopped mint
cracked bulgar wheat ( coarser than fine, #2 )
chopped fresh tomatos
( you can bastardize it with cucumbers and other crap but don't )
Dressing, the four basic ingredients of life
Olive oil
Fresh squeezed lemon juice
That's it; enjoy!
PS You can add cumin as a spice very lightly, but it's too easy to bend
the flavors out of whack if you a purest like everyone here
seems to be about gold.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:08 - ID#28594)
Haggis re: Sorros in Indonesia
There is a real possibility he may have 'lost- out' to the
Chinese! {:- )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:08 - ID#411233)
OLIVER- - - - - - - Just another prankster out fishing, and getting lot's of bites!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:10 - ID#227238)
(What Needs Doing)
Mozel: Your last paragraph is confusing. I think you are speaking of the ideal rather than what is extant ...... but not sure.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:10 - ID#426220)


Robby Hanna__A ( Vronsky- - nice to see yer up this hour...about the astrological read... )

Copy and past the above URL to your Internet Location window ( Go To ) , and ENTER

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:11 - ID#31868)
Robby Hanna_A
Ah yes, the fresh mint. Bravo that.

Robby Hanna__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:11 - ID#356196)
Anybody know where to find online info on GLOBEX trading of S&P's...
Looking for a site to see the off US market action of S& P trading tonight. Anyone have a reference website to log on to?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:14 - ID#374211)
@ Robby Hanna
March SP DOWN 820

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:16 - ID#398105)
Earl................we have got a problem..............

I have cross checked with "Scotland and Her Tartans" by Alexander Clinton Clan !!!!

However, I may have a solution. We could adopt him into the Cockburn Clan, motto......... Accendit cantu ( He is aroused by cockcrow ) .

Failing that, the Douglas Clan, motto......Jamais arriere ( Never behind ) .

Or, the Dunbar Clan, motto........In promptu ( At the ready ) .

However, I would tend to think that Bill is a already member of the Guthrie Clan, motto.........Sto pro veritate ( I stand for truth ) !!!

Robby Hanna__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:17 - ID#356196)
TZADEAK, thanks...but where oh where can I see the S&P action from here?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:19 - ID#401237)
Feb. Gold

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:21 - ID#227290)
The Death of the Dollar???
To all interested:

I've just looked at the U.S. dollar chart. Here's what I find:

The dollar peaked on Jan. 7 at 101.68, just 11 ticks shy of the high made last summer of 101.79. Not a good sign for the dollar bulls.

The dollar has now retraced almost its entire monthly gain and is barely above the spot in began the month. A close on Jan. 31 below the Dec. 31 close would give us a "key reversal" on the monthly chart to go with the already bearish "double top."

The stochastics have rolled over to the downside on the daily chart, but not yet on the monthly chart.

Although the evidence is not conclusive, it doesn't look good for the U.S. dollar. The bull market is nearly 3 years old and the world has changed greatly since it began.

With Clinton's problems coming to the surface and the American need for a lower dollar, we are on the verge of seeing a dollar bear market. ( But it's not quite here. ) This should be great for gold for obvious reasons.

The Preacher

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:21 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Robby - - Here you go. Take the space out after the dash. bin/gflash.cgi

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:21 - ID#374211)
@ Robby Hanna bin/gflash.cgi

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:22 - ID#298259)
STUDIO.R....23:26 post....Right On!
Keep it hot

Robby Hanna__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:25 - ID#356196)
Eldorado, as they say in the beer commercial--"You da man!" Thanks dude.

If only my boat was big enough for these waves...guess I'll just have to time it perfect. Again, much thanks.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:25 - ID#238422)
Robby Hanna
Thanks again, Hanna.

I could feel something was wrong with my wheat...

My respect and appreciation to you.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:27 - ID#31868)
A little known tip, add salt to the water prior to soaking the wheat.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:31 - ID#238422)
Preacher, Brabo!

" ....the American need for a lower dollar..."

I think you also know how it is arranged at this particular
moment, at least I figured it out all right. The key seems
to be US$'s for Asia... Am I right?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:32 - ID#238422)
Preacher, sorry, BRAVO, of course...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:32 - ID#401237)
Thursday January 22, 12:01 am Eastern Time

South Korea seen playing brinkmanship on debt talk
``The Koreans feel the crisis is over and time is on their side,'' a Korean banking source said.
U.S. market sources said such complacency was misguided.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:34 - ID#238422)
Thank you too, good man.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:35 - ID#31868)
For what it is worth, I kinda liked Brabo! better.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:35 - ID#401237)

S& P 500 MAR98 966.20 - 920


(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:38 - ID#93232)
Clinton has jeopardized a great deal more than his family life, his Presidency and his place in history. The consequences of failing his post at this particular time in history may be quite dire indeed for countless people throughout the world. My family and myself do not have to be understanding, lenient or passive about the harm he will cause. Rather we choose to condemn him and pray for his speedy demise, so that, we may get about the good work that needs be done with the guidance of a new and competent leader. A leader who holds dear the values that founded our country.

I wish I could convey my feelings as well as you did in your post. Thank you. You know, Earl, "post" means two things....what you say and what is your duty.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:41 - ID#153102)
Earl: What Needs Doing

It would not be ideal, but merely restoring constitutional government here to bring the power to charter banks back to the States. And that any federation in the world could solve their national fiat currency crisis by following the model set forth in the US Constitution.

I am saying that the model which Hayek says will work because it enlists free market forces to keep excesses by government and by unscrupulous banksters in check is, in fact, the model that did work in the US during a period of tremendous growth and prosperity. It did not fail because of economics, but over the political questions of the day.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:41 - ID#31868)
Stand tall my friend, you give a perfectly good account of yourself. In addition, I think I shall rename you...

Relentless, we need more of what you have to offer the world.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:43 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Don't know what the morning brings, but by the current look of things, it would appear that the spoos are headed for about 928 in my current estimation. 966.xx 'might' make a short term fade though. Then it really depends on how it reacts to that 'support'. As usual, all caveats apply!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:44 - ID#238422)
Whatever you like, I think I like also.

I think we also like one and the same food.

My respect.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:46 - ID#398105)
See ya later............................

President Clinton was walking along the beach when he stumbled upon a
magic lamp. He picked it up, rubbed it, and a genie appeared. The
president was amazed and asked if he got three wishes. The genie said,
"Not these days, mister. Because of inflation, I'm only giving out one
wish. So...what'll it be?"

Clinton didn't hesitate, saying, "I want peace in the Middle East. It'll
make me look good come election time."

He showed the genie a map. The Genie looked at the map and exclaimed,
"Impossible. The people in these countries have been at war for 3000
years! I'm good, but there are limits. Make another wish."

Clinton thought for a minute and said, "People don't like my wife. They
think she's a real conniving witch. I wish for her to appear as the most
honest woman in the world and for everybody to like her."

The Genie thought for a minute, and said, " Let me see that map again."

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:48 - ID#31868)
My stomach is my second favorite organ!!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:49 - ID#227238)
Studio R: ""post" means two things....what you say and what is your duty." ...... As you are no doubt aware, it is also used metaphorically. As in Clintons case: Dumb as a post. ...... with apologies to the post.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:50 - ID#398105)
STUDIO.R..........with respect.....................

We Scots have had Bills' problem for over a thousand years.

KILTS, KILTs, KILts, KIlts, Kilts ...............

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:50 - ID#238422)
Haggis, Brabo!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:54 - ID#238422)
The same here,

but let's keep the secret of the first favorite one

under the cover, I bet we got some ladies on this site...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:54 - ID#31868)
I wish you could have heard the roar of laughter brought on by your joke.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:56 - ID#31868)
Re: Dr. Coleman, where might I find a biography you trust on this fellow.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:57 - ID#93232)
I'm hittin' the sack, fellers.
Haggis...I needed that laugh, thanks, pard. T#1...I march behind you. always. Frustrated...we'll keep 'er good and hot, sir.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 00:58 - ID#374211)
@ Clinton Resigns?....
Here is an interesting/plausable scenario re Clinton impeachment
or resignation, immediately the markets , US$ and Bonds tank, "Glitch"
in Asia leads to reputiation of US Debt, as world sees a weak and divided US, attacks against US troops lead to troop pull outs in Asia
+ in a word financial hell! and who gets the blame the REPUBLICANS
for bringing down the perceived Golden goose ( Clinton et al ) who gave them years of great markets, lowest unemployment etc...LGB stuff....
And who replaces him? The GOREbotic one the former viet vet
whose worst sin thus far has been to allegedly take questionable
campaign contributions, which he will qickly solve by insiting on
wholesale caimpaign reform which will quickly silence the Republicans,
Just a Thought!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:03 - ID#227238)
Rectification and ultimate salvation.
Mozel: Unfortunately, the framers of the constitution did not count on words being twisted to unsual definition. In that they failed. By so doing they allowed the only watchdog over the constitution, the supreme court, to be selectively bred for the task and to be fed and nurtured by the central government. How could they know?

There will be no relief in sight unless and until the states reassert their rightful place in the grand scheme of things. In the process of doing so they must take control of the courts and make it responsible in some fashion to the federation as a whole rather than the federal government. This demands that the states fund it and control it via some quasi federal body that is not beholden to the 535 loose cannons rummaging the halls of congress for loose change.

The consititution must be reinstated, in law, in its originally intended fashion. ...... but why prattle on? ...... so many lovely dreams of what should have been and is not to be. ... It's not easy being a disillusioned romantic. Is it????? .......

Skin that rotten bastard!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:13 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Earl - - The Framers of the Constitution had a hell of a time with a Bill of Rights 'cause they just couldn't imagine the people giving up those rights. They really didn't believe those Amendments were necessary! Hell, the way I figure, they should have added a few dozen more, not that it would really help in the end 'cause people, being people, would have them taken away anyway. Kind of like being the 'marks' at the carnival.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:15 - ID#227238)
Studio R: Follow me??? Why the hell do I have to lead and be the first to be shot???? ...... Reminds me of a time, long long ago. In another place I'd just as soon forget. I agreed to take part in a minor insurrection against the forces of evil. The many said they were behind me. "All the way", were the words used. As I recall. ..... Trouble was, they were too far behind. No one could recognise them. Certainly not as men. ..... It was about that time that I recognised the futility of being a patriot or taking up causes and formed the judgement that patriots are the first to be used as cannon fodder. ..... "Believe little. Resist much". ( circa BC's generation )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:24 - ID#227238)
Kind of like being the 'marks' at the carnival.
Eldo: .... or targets in the shooting gallery. ...."Believe little. Resist much". .... It was good enough for Clinton, it's good enough for me. ...... Actually, there is a certain efficacy to national insurrections every 200 years or so. A certain cleansing that enables a national spiritual catharsis. Much like the annual spring blood letting of some our forebears, who believed that it was good to let out some of the "old blood" and encourage the new. May be something to it. ..... Trouble is I grow old and such festivities are far too unselective for my taste.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:24 - ID#401237)
Dave in CO 23:44
Dave in CO 23:44

slick/slithering one to evade the draft

If I have the correct info and I think I do it was a Republican, Winthrop Rockefeller of Ark., his son or grandson is running for office in Arkansas. And a Democrat, Jay Rockefeller sponsored/supported Hillarys health care bill, he was recently in Asia.

Their $ is still under one control. They own Chase Bank which is a major stock owner of the Federal Reserve Bank.

Nelson A. Rockefeller was Vice Pres. after Nixon resigned over Watergate. ( interesting in itself ) Nelson was named after his Grandfather, Senator Nelson Aldrich, an employee of the Rothschilds. Aldrich's daughter married John D. Aldrich introduced the Federal Reserve Bill. And the rest is History.

It is not a conspiracy it is business as usual.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:33 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Earl - - Get 'selective'!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:35 - ID#227238)
Who the hell is this ubiquitous "Dr. Coleman"? His name has popped up here innumerable times in the past several days. .......Yee Gods! Is this more guru chasing?..... Someone of a mystical bent seeking future direction by floating a horse hair in a jar?....... or follows a fart to divine revelation?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:36 - ID#153102)
Earl: What Needs Doing
Well, we have this fundamental problem that I explained in the enemies of gold post that greenback government is the enemy of law and of honest people. The greenback is a con like any other fiat currency and having it as the unit of account and exchange is rewarding the wrong sort of behavior and the wrong sort of people. Clinton is symptomatic, but they're all con artists, using words like Social Security Trust and "make the dollar sounder". The States are the key and when enough people get the message, the banking/currency/greenback problem and the Supreme Court problem you identified can be fixed. And I think that relates to the interests of people who own gold. I don't think it is romantic for me to expect to live with my liberties and property protected under just law and government. I think it is my birthright guaranteed to me right there in the Preamble. The Founders gave us a written guarantee. That's more than most anybody in most any other nation on earth is born having. But, if people here give up trying to make that guarantee good, they are not going to like what comes next at all.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:38 - ID#432107)
Only in America
As a Canadian I realize that American politics affects markets on both sides of the border and find myself watching American news more often than Canadian news. To coin my father- in- laws favorite expression, " Only in America." Only in America can a football player get away with murder and a President risk losing his job by getting caght with his pants down. John F. Kennedy should be alive to see this and the pope visiting his friend Castro. We've come so far in 30 years.

As serious as these events are they only become great entertainment for us 6:00 couch potatoes.

To change the subject, I was searching my encyclopedia for past crashes and found it interesting that the gold standard was adopted by the United States on March the 4th. 1900 following a prior crises of the time.

Could it be possible that history will repeat itself 100 years later?

I also found that after the crash of '29, it took three years for the market to hit bottom. Not until there was a new president did the merket start to regain confidence agian. Will we have to wait three years before we can buy back into equities and real estate?

The Hatt
(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:42 - ID#294232)
Who would ever of guessed?
That a little sexual scandal would of been the trigger for what is about to become the Mutual Fund Meltdown. If this problem becomes a real problem the liquidity in the markets will dry up over night. For anyone holding equity funds the time is running out if you donot want to be a victim of the upcoming CRASH!!!!!!!!!!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:47 - ID#20136)
A very sad story.

Thursday January 22, 12:31 am Eastern Time

Despair deepens in Hong Kong as confidence cracks

Australia All Ordinaries ^AORD 12:06AM 2599.4 - 23.4 - 0.89%
China Shanghai Composite ^SSEC 1:42AM 1204.225 +4.022 +0.34%
Hong Kong Hang Seng ^HSI 1:41AM 8852.28 - 394.52 - 4.27%
India BSE 30 ^BSESN 1:41AM 3390.92 - 27.42 - 0.80%
Indonesia Jakarta Composite ^JKSE 1:42AM 439.321 - 26.682 - 5.73%
Japan Nikkei 225 ^N225 1:04AM 16405.69 - 278.73 - 1.67%
Malaysia KLSE Composite ^KLSE 1:41AM 567.07 - 23.48 - 3.98%
New Zealand NZSE 40 ^NZ40 10:06PM 2244.92 - 9.22 - 0.41%
Pakistan Karachi 100 ^KSE 1:42AM 1610.13 +4.44 +0.28%
Philippines PSE Composite ^PSI 11:09PM 1707.61 - 47.66 - 2.72%
Singapore Straits Times ^SS1 1:41AM 1263.71 - 47.69 - 3.64%
South Korea Seoul Composite ^KS11 1:41AM 483.99 - 22.67 - 4.47%
Sri Lanka All Share ^CSE 3:52AM 669.20 0.00 0.00%
Taiwan Taiwan Weighted ^TWII 11:05PM 8085.47 - 13.18 - 0.16%
Thailand SET ^SETI 12:31AM 430.58 - 2.28 - 0.53%

These are sad and dangerous times. We need to look east and prepare. Our currency is at risk.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:53 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Earl - - I also have my own set of ideas and ideals. I don't require some 'Bill of Rights' to enumerate those rights that I know I have. Besides, those are the written bounds FOR the government to stay within. Notice how well even the written ones work! Ole Tom Jefferson knew what the proper thing to do was, from time- to- time! And given the direction of things, it wouldn't surprise me a bit to finally see something of that nature take place. Hard to know. But I don't think I want to stand out in front either. Not for THIS populations' mentality and 'civility'. They want 'swamp', fine! it'll take quite a bit to turn their mentality around. Who am I to stand in the way of their 'learning curve'!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:54 - ID#227238)
Eldo: Selective becomes an inoperative term when the festivities are at their finest. I would like to watch only. Unfortunately, our concept of democracy, so called demands that all bear themselves to the process of selection. Unfortunately, our selection process has aquired a peculiar American twist. Probably because draft boards are seldom managed by miners, petty merchants, tinkers, tailors or candlestick makers. .... For some reason; only "pillars of the community" need apply. A marvel of democracy in action.

Viewed from above, that is selection of a sort, I suppose. Viewed from my vulnerable postion, it gains a slightly different cast. .... or caste, as the case may be.

No, those of us who are found to be, inconveniently, among the bootless and unhorsed will be forced to find a new definition of select, selection, and above all selectivity. ...... away to control the process. It's the only hope.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 01:59 - ID#285392)
RJ reply to Snowbird

Many thanks for the detailed silver trend explanation. It is particularly valuable to me as I have come to respect your opinion. You are one of the most knowledgeable contributors to this site and it is appreciated.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:02 - ID#31868)
Let me clarify this Dr. Coleman matter. Haggis_A posted a link, which I then printed out. 163 pages worth of material. My Mother became fascinated with the intrigue of his words. Some of what she read was for her quite shocking.

I do not always agree with the thoughts which Haggis_A presents, but, hell, I do not always agree with me. That having been said, if there is a smidgen of truth to 1% of what the ubiquitous Dr. Coleman has postulated then it truly is a moment of concern for all of us.

Nothing more, nothing less.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:15 - ID#227238)
Brothers in philosophy, blood and , more likely - bondage.
Mozel: In reading your stuff, I cannot conceive of an area where we would find ourselves at loggerheads. At once, I admire your understanding of monetary and financial history and your ability to couple it, seamlessly, to the law and morality. being the handmaiden of the other, I suppose.

Nonetheless, it may be a function of "time in grade", .... the inexorable pull of the clock ....., that compels me to a remain vitally interested in the topic and almost completely inured to the possibility that something postive could ever be accomplished, in terms of reformation, without the historically inevitable ..... "cleansing by fire". There is absolutely nothing in my experience, personal or observational, that would argue against that point of view. ..... Though I wish it were otherwise. For the sake my children and grandchildren.

Dave in CO
(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:18 - ID#215211)
@Highrise - Clinton and the draft
Did a quick look on the net and this is a reference which reinforces my memory that Sen. Fulbright helped him to join the ROTC at the U. of Ark. which allowed him to evade the draft. True to form, Clinton lied to the ROTC Colonel and promptly dropped out.

Agree that Sen. Jay Rockefeller from W. Va. was a big supporter of the Hillary- health bill ( and he supports gun control for the unwashed but has an AR- 15 for his own protection. ) Also that Winthrop was gov. of Ark.

From my right- wing reading, Nelson ( Ford's selection for VP ) was the world gov. preference for president after Nixon and Agnew were removed, but his divorce made him unelectable.

What do you see as the succession if, by the most remote of chances, that Clinton is no more? Is it Gore and Jay Rockefeller? Then a Squeaky Fromme clone yields a Pres. Rockefeller?

I really appreciate your opinions. Thanks.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:19 - ID#31868)
Re: your need to worry...I would not allow you to be the first casualty. While I lift you out of the way and the inside of your shoulder blades understands the first touch I shall gleefully lead the charge.

When the true loving barbarians storm the walls the world will recognize valor and honor. Let the wearers of green and red woolen berets beware.

Paris Island is a wimps holiday.

PS I am not a tough guy and I do not have a death wish. I simply say this, threaten me, my family and my loved ones and prepare to meet your maker because when I hit someone they stay hit.

Peace to you and yours.

Thus endeth the lesson...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:19 - ID#153102)
A lot of people seem to think this dollar thing is about the US. Of course, in a sense that's true. So, about any grievance anybody has about Americans or US policy on anything gets aired. But, what is on trial in my opinion is every nation's fiat currency. If the dollar trading system goes, there is no medium of exchange for trade. There's just a world full of these National Sovereigns arbitraily declaring what their brand of printed paper is worth. They can impose on their people, but they can't impose on another National Sovereign. The perception ( and I ain't saying it ain't so ) that the US is using its position as reserve currency National Sovereign to further its interests as one among many National Sovereigns and financing its own internal spending at the expense of other National Sovereigns is what is breaking the dollar trading system down.

The other thing that is on trial is standards of accounting. The West came up with these. But I don't think they are consistent among the National Sovereigns even in the West. What does a book to price ratio mean if there is no consistency about what book is ? The IMF comes out and says if you want more credits, you have to do this and that. The East is perceiving that these accounting standards are unfair to them. The accounting foundations are shaking because they are based on fundamentally dishonest units of account everywhere. Where there are no fixed rules and no trusted umpire, there is no game.

The fact is that any government which allows an irreplaceable resource to be exchanged for anything but gold and silver is incompetent and is cheating its people and their posterity. The Arabs have oil in the ground. It's irreplaceable. And they are going to have substance for substance because they are not as corrupt or as incompetent, at least, as these socialist demon- cracy governments.

This idea that a global gold standard is going to solve things is hooey.
Which I will go into later.

Somebody posted that London does not report stocks. What that means to me is that the world market is like the game at the carnival where you buy a chance to figure out which shell the pea is under after the sleight of hand is finished.

If the dollar trading system collapses, I wouldn't plan on bottom fishing for quite a while. "When trade doesn't cross borders, armies do" may be a true saying.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:23 - ID#227238)
Cloaked in secrecy?
T1: Thanks for your understanding and forebearance ..... but what the hell is he about??? Gloom and doom is what I imagine. ..... My God! Are there no Pollyanna's left in the world? ...... I apologize for my smartass attitude on this thing. Its quiet and I'm afraid if the channel is dead for too long, spiders will begin to nest in the contactors and everything will have to be cleaned in the morning. ....... So it's just a small public service I try to provide when I am suffering insomnia.

Dave in CO
(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:25 - ID#215211)
@Highrise - sorry, forgot the pointer to Clinton/draft

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:27 - ID#31868)
There is that in life which cannot be figured out. For me, when I hit the proverbial brick wall I have taught myself to think of a way to bring laughter to a child so that I might for a brief instance illuminate their minds eye with kindness in the hope they will do same for a stranger.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:28 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Mozel - - It's one thing to know what is right. It's another thing to know what is the right thing to do, and perhaps even more importantly, the proper timing of it. Kind of like the Big boys kicking a market JUST at the most opportune time to get the most mileage from their bucks! Politics is much like that. Just have to wait for that 'pendulum' to reach its peak, and the people to start 'coming around', typically on their own, before it becomes particularly useful to also poke your head up. Besides, unless one is a Tom Jefferson, or Patrick Henry type in their verbage, it is doubtful that much would be accomplished by any one individual, or even any number of individuals. In the mean time, there are places like Kitco. Who knows, maybe a few actually READ this place!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:29 - ID#284255)
Jin was on the ball.
Heard on local national news that the rupiah touched 16,000 today.
Whose turn tomorrow?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:30 - ID#227238)
BTW, @ more of a serious nature.
T1: That business about spiders in the switchgear is serious business. Had a little bug build his nest in a single burner coleman - there's that man again - stove, one time. He built his little nest at the exact point where the gas is injected into the burner. Had to dismantle the whole thing to make the discovery. .... It delayed, substantially, my morning coffee. Neither of us was pleased.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:33 - ID#31868)
Your kindness and understanding do not do justice to that which is the comfort your seek for all.

Brabo! to ya, a special shot of Drambuie in Honor of your thoughts. Gulp.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:37 - ID#31868)
Me mum has written a poem for your Father. Send me an email with a physical location address, if you would be so kind, so that I might see her wish accomplished.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:48 - ID#227238)
Mozel: Indeed, your message is universal and bears on the texture on all balogna everywhere. ..... At the same time, your choice of examples is open to question. I'm fairly certain it is unintended but your depiction of the oil states as paragons of financial, monetary and above all moral rectitude is easily misconstrued.

That they have a precious natural resource whose value they wish to conserve; there is no doubt. That they are anxious to share this bounty, equally, with their brothers is somewhat less certain. The level of felicity extended to fellow citizens, by those in command, seems to follow the strict rules of Islam but, as true everywhere, there is some difference in the style of living and the enjoyment of the national fruit. ...... The Saudi princes have pissed away enough national treasure to field a dozen armies. Not to mention, fund a thousand schools.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:49 - ID#31868)
I say the following in earnest. I am not that bright, truly, 'tis so. During the synaptic cognizance which apparently is my life "they" have tried to measure my reading comprehension. At a clock speed of over 50,000 words per minute they informed me that such is not possible and then offered me a job. Go figure.

Before I digress further, I say this, big deal so I inhale pages, that and fifteen cents won't get me a ride on the subway, your posts I pour over time and time again It takes me a while to comprehend all that you are trying to impart.

If thought were gravy my brain would be greedily sopping up every last morsel.

Thanks for helping one such as me understand things outside of my comprehension.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:49 - ID#286234)
Yes. McMaster Carr will send a catalog to me.

Here is an old joke. I will let some one else answer it. ( Apologys to Tortfeasor et. al. )

You are locked in a room with a lawyer and Hitler and Saddam Hussein. You have a gun but only two cartridges. What do you do?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:50 - ID#173274)
@the scene
G'night all.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:51 - ID#286234)
Fell off my stool at 00:02

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:52 - ID#286234)
apologys = apologies

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:52 - ID#31868)
You shoot yourself twice.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 02:58 - ID#153102)
Earl & Eldorado
I think serious people are going to agree like you and I do Earl after they give it serious thought and have the facts.

The rights of an American were declared and secured first in the States and that's where restoring just law and the Constitution must begin. The government didn't teach us anything useful in school about law and our government and so the choice is self- education or ignorance. Knowledge is power; ignorance is easily imposed upon.

A resort to arms is a trial by combat. Bullets don't gravitate to the worst people or the people with the worst intentions or the worst ideas or the most ignorance. When we have as much freedom as we do, it sounds immature to let things go to pot in the expectation that whoever is left standing after the human sacrifice is over is going to be the good guys. A resort to arms is a last resort, a desperate gamble, and risking all on pure chance. Hang on your weapons, but you only have to consider how much was lost between 1860- 65 to realize how much is at stake.

I hear what you are saying about experience. But, these State legislators do not live on the moon. It seems a better chance to try to use their lawful Constitutional power real hard before throwing the dice on "cleansing by fire power".

Dave in CO
(Thu Jan 22 1998 03:04 - ID#215211)
Clinton admits UNDER OATH to affair with Jennifer Flowers per Wash. Post
I'm sure that everyone will be as shocked as I to find that Clinton lied about this affair on 60 Minutes ( that bastion of unbiased journalism ) to get elected in 1992:

Of course he wasn't under oath on 60 Minutes in 1992, or on PBS and NPR in 1998. And it was for the good of the children so what do you expect?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 03:08 - ID#31868)
Dave In CO
The best way to kill a dinosaur it to stomp on its eggs.

Good night all, may all your children's dreams come true!!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 03:09 - ID#286234)
Haggis- Fell off m'stool again at your 00:46

tolerant1- Don't be so hard on yourself, it's a joke. Shoot the lawyer twice.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 03:17 - ID#153102)
Earl & Eldorado & Tolerant1
Thanks for reading.

I would not want to live in Arabia nor do I admire monarchy or even Islam and the people at the top have done just what you say. But, their demand for substance for substance is a fact of world trade. And, getting gold in the country in return for an irreplaceable resource is head and shoulders over what these socialist demon- cracies are doing to protect their people's interests.

I ain't gonna' change the world by myself. But, nobody does, even the ones in the newspapers. I'm just contributing.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 03:29 - ID#432148)
G- BUG, I am inclined to agree with The Hatt, this latest scandal could be quite serious. Note yet another Asian downer and the Globex at the moment, S& P down 10.4 and Nasdaq down 13.25. The press seems to be in a frenzy. Are they finally going to really cover this sort of thing? Must be serious. And what do you know, he has really admitted an affair with Flowers? The country sure doesn't need this at this time. Ingotwetrust.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 03:31 - ID#266105)
Snowball ( Thanks to all ( + ) )


's chance in hell.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 03:45 - ID#432148)
I too would like to know who this Coleman is?? Can someone enlighten us? You do have a way with words: "follow a fart to devine revelation!", it has to rank right up there with the best ;- ) .

(Thu Jan 22 1998 04:00 - ID#26793)
@Goldbug23; Here is Kenneth Coleman. Dr.? I don't know.

John Disney__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 04:12 - ID#24135)
Clinton is full of tebouleh
to all

1. I sympathize with Ziva on Clinton promiscuity. If

You were maried to Hillary what would YOU do??

2. Point 1 nonwithstanding I personally detest Clinton

- not for screwing around but because he represents

the epitome of all I loathe in big Government - hypocracy,

using his position for personal gain, social

experimentation to his benefit, you name it. I favour

a popular uprising with 3 months of street terror,

culminating in public execution of Goverment officials

down to say the managerial level - in the fashion of

Robespierre ( as described to us in the writings and

memoirs of the beloved Bernatz de Ventadorm ) .

3. In view of ( 2 ) above I am forced to downgrade the

US rating to the politically Unstable ( PU ) category regarding

purchase of their mines or MORE IMPORTANTLY their BONDS.

4. Jeez - - you mean "v......." isnt veils. I gotta go

back and read all that stuff again?.

5. for Boris - Please email guidance on tebouleh

preparation - what are proportions ??? and I dont have

a picture of what you do with the bulgar or cracked

wheat exactly. Can you use it to forecast gold price?-

I give up on prickly pears.

6. Dbn deep is going nuts - results out in a few days.

The RSA mines seem to be doing BETTER at low gold

prices. I find that very odd, dont you.

John Disney__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 04:39 - ID#24135)
Good posts
For Mozel

Your posts are outstanding. Where did you come from??

Your perception of the civil war as watershed in

American history is rare. Something like half ( or more )

of Americans cant date it within 50 years.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 04:40 - ID#266105)
You know Mr. Disney, they say a writer's true home is in the people,
in the streets and houses.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 04:43 - ID#28585)
When the American people categorically cease to believe the word of the President, then the contagion of cynicism will spillover to many other symbols of government, e.g., consumer price index, producer price index,
unemployment report, etc. The people's motto will become, "Don't believe anything anymore!"

Then, ultimately, the tide of cynicism will spillover to major private enterprise establishments...the American people will doubt the integrity of all establishment vehicles, e.g., reports of mutual fund cash flows,
earnings per share reports, etc. The general protest will be, "Don't believe any of it...they're all liars!"

The Monica scandal is not simply a sexual pecadillo...rather it may be the final nail in the coffin, finally burying the trust Americans hold for authority figures.

When authority figures collapse, then economies often follow. Witness what is happening in Indonesia ( the emasculation of Suharto ) as evidence
of this phenomenon.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 04:47 - ID#286234)
There was a young lady from Wheeling
Who professed to no sexual feeling
Till a gynic named Boris
Just touched her c- - - - - - s
And she had to be scraped off the ceiling

John Disney__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 04:51 - ID#24135)
Opera is great in the late morning
For Farfel - - I was saying that in 1981 when I left - Its

about time they started saying it - I want a Government that

cleans the streets and kills criminals - nothing more.

for bro2b2 ??? - - I really like that - sounds a bit tom

wolfish ( no 1 not no 2 ) - who said it?? - Great to find someone

awake at this hour.

Im listening to Ballo in maschera with headphones and

wondering what to do with myself today while gold goes up.

I love this.

John Disney__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 04:53 - ID#24135)
I love limericks
for Sam

You're a devil

" c........." means coat rack, right??

(Thu Jan 22 1998 04:55 - ID#302251)
John Disney.....................I DESPISE CLINTON

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Everything that you said about me was UNTRUE !!!
Is someone paying you to spread disinformation?

Your vulgar expressions are unfit for human consumption,
and you will do all of us a favor, if you will just disappear.

Regarding Clinton,
you are mentally too incompetent to comprehend my posts.
Clinton is the most corrupt President in our history.
He, according to reliable sources, is directly involved in the assassination of Ron Brown and Vince Foster,
and killing many more people during his drug operations in his own state.

What I am saying is that while Clinton's Zipper is important,
we should not forget that all of us are slowly been manipulated
towards WW3.





All the above was really easy to guess,
but for the life of me,
I can not guess what in the hell are you doing at this website!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 04:56 - ID#286234)
John Disney

(Thu Jan 22 1998 05:05 - ID#153102)
John D
Where did I come from ? I think the times just burped me up.
Thanks for your kind compliment.
And thanks for sharing your acumen on mining stocks as well.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 05:11 - ID#286234)
John Disney
Later Big John. Think I'll go home.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 05:23 - ID#302251)
Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:43:46 - 0600 ( CST )
"STRATFOR Systems Inc."


Stratfor's SHREDDER software:
Protect yourself and your data

Global Intelligence Update
Red Alert
January 22, 1998

New Middle Eastern Militant Organization Reported

The Lebanese newspaper "Al- Shira" reported on January 19 that Israeli and
Jordanian security forces had uncovered a new militant organization- - the
Jordanian Islamic Liberation Army. The new group, founded in June, 1997,
was reportedly uncovered after the attempted assassination attempt on an
Israeli diplomat in Amman in September, 1997. Following that incident, a
joint Israeli- Jordanian security task force tracked the attackers to
Palestinian camps in Lebanon. Jordanian agents then infiltrated the camps
where they uncovered the new organization.

The Jordanian Islamic Liberation Army is reportedly made up of members
representing a hodgepodge of nationalities and organizations. Included in
its ranks are Jordanian fundamentalists, Yemenis, Iraqis, Sudanese,
Algerian veterans of the war in Afghanistan, and Egyptians from the Jihad
organization and from Jama'ah al- Islamiyah, which was responsible for the
attack on tourists in Luxor. The group receives its spiritual leadership
from a close associate of Iranian Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Abd al- Sahib al-
Musawi, and is reportedly close to the Iranian- backed Hezbollah.

The organization is based in Lebanon, but has a network of support in
Jordan, especially among Palestinian elements. The Jordanian agents who
penetrated the organization report that its aims include destabilizing the
Jordanian regime, as well as launching attacks on U.S. and Israeli
interests in Jordan.

This report is extremely interesting from several aspects. First, just the
fact that a new organization has arisen, dedicated to fracturing the U.S.-
Jordanian- Israeli relationship, is a matter of concern, as it threatens to
disrupt one of the few Arab- Israeli successes on the road to peace.
Second, the report reveals a surprisingly high level of cooperation between
Israeli and Jordanian security services. Third, it reveals that Iran is
not only not reducing its support of militant elements in the region, it is
increasing the number of its proxies. It is interesting to note that
President Khatami, in a speech this week at the tomb of Ayatollah Khomeni,
pledged to uphold Khomeni's legacy and stated that, "Iran has suffered the
greatest harm from the unjust policies of America." With the ultimate
direction of Iran still unclear, the presence of this faction in Jordan is
potentially important.

One final point worth considering is the multinational composition of the
Jordanian Islamic Liberation Army. This amalgam of militants may reflect
successes in breaking up militant organizations throughout the region, but
may at the same time point to the birth of the professional multi- national
Arab militant faction, able to operate in most countries in the region,
regardless of the origins or original agendas of its individual members.


To receive free daily Global Intelligence Updates
or Computer Security Alerts, sign up on the web at,>, or send your name,
organization, position, mailing address, phone
number, and e- mail address to>

STRATFOR Systems, Inc.
3301 Northland Drive, Suite 500
Austin, TX 78731- 4939

Phone: 512- 454- 3626
Fax: 512- 454- 1614

(Thu Jan 22 1998 05:29 - ID#228283)
@ Ziva .... 3 out of 4

isn't bad. Cinton will be impeached because he lied under oath;a felony.Maybe obstruction of justice. The press has already alluded to this.His sexual misconduct will be a sidelight. Mrs. Clinton will be made to look good when she "stands by her man."

(Thu Jan 22 1998 05:41 - ID#153102)
You would miss Oris.
WW is a lot of W. Who wants it ?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 05:42 - ID#266105)
I forgot who said that. Princesses, Presidents and
purported saints. ( yawn ) Sex and money, now THAT'S
interesting...motherlode country.

John Disney__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 05:52 - ID#24135)
What can I say after Ive said he's sorry?
For Ziva =

Hay wait a minute - I think you're great Ziva -

maybe even magnificent - but dont get stuck into Oris

because he is my good buddy. Give him a break. He

takes a little getting to know... But he is a diamond.

And he is always a perfect gentleman.

For oris - what did you do to upset Ziva so much ?

Remember we NEED more ladies in this pub.

For Ziva - whatever Oris did - I apologise profusely

and from the bottom of his heart on his behalf. Let's

not have WW3 start HERE.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 05:59 - ID#228283)
@ John Disney..Re: Ziva.... I think she's pouting.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 05:59 - ID#284255)
Urls to view
"The Lord is speaking to us through many types of revelatory and tangible waves. There are financial waves, natural disaster waves, health waves, political waves, and last, but certainly not least, are spiritual awakening waves. Whether it is natural waves of revelation or supernatural waves of prophecy, we are called to have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. God is saying these are days for repentance, healing, salvation, and blessing. Our God is speaking. The question is, are we truly watching, waiting, and listening?"
General Market View 1/20/98

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:04 - ID#284255)
Technically bankrupt?
FOCUS- Indonesia economy stumbles as turmoil widens
Almost all listed companies in the country are now technically bankrupt, they said, speaking to Reuters after the rupiah fell as low as 17,000 to the dollar - - down 65 percent from the start of the year and 86 percent since July.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:07 - ID#153102)
Who Will Be President
When Ruben announced this currency crisis is serious, he got everybody's attention. There is no doubt big stories get covered and broadcast in the media in the way certain people want them done and if there's a press feeding frenzy starting on Clinton now, that's an indication a new face is coming. Gore will go first just like Agnew. Then Clinton. Then new face will go to work trying to save their paper.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:10 - ID#228283)
@ mozel..the order of succession

places Newt in 3rd place.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:10 - ID#398105) all about it, read all about it.................

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:13 - ID#153102)
When they take out the VP first, they get to name the new face of their choice. Ford was not House Speaker.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:16 - ID#266105)
Say, Mr. ( Mosel. ) That was a nice editorial by the good
Dr. Shelton yesterday. In an important and timely space.
Her books are here on the shelf dog- eared and scribbled.
She is beautiful.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:22 - ID#185448)
Austrian "Kontrollbank" which is a kind of government insurance against creditor- risks in Export- business gives at the moment no export- guarantees for business with most asian countries ( exception: China ) .

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:24 - ID#228283)
@ mozel..You are correct,sir!

but I don't believe Clinton's egomania or H.R.C. will allow him to resign. Remember, the man is a pathalogical, congenital liar. In his heart he truely believes he has done no wrong.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:26 - ID#153102)
She is in the best class of company with Hayek.

Economics is the study of voluntary human action or it is propaganda. 99% of what is popularized, that is to say mediaized, is propaganda.

There is a fundamental flaw with looking up beyond the Nation State for a solution to this crisis instead of into the building block of the federated governments, which in the US is the State, in Canada is the province, and so forth. I posted on that earlier. I'm getting my thoughts together on this global gold standard hooey.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:31 - ID#153102)
If they have decided he is a risk to their paper palace, he will go slick willy willye or slick willy nillye.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:35 - ID#30116)
Let the voting begin...
Early votes are in and.... gold up, stocks down, and dollar down. A new weather phenomina? The Clinton effect??? AlGore look out... :- ) )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:37 - ID#266105)
It is difficult to imagine something emerging out of 'the process'
even faintly resembling an objective intent that went into it in the
context of interest group politics. Still, a reasonably deft layout
of the architecture of something sounder than what is being observed
and given imprimatur on that important page sets the wheels of wheels

I think in a crisis situation she could sketch out an opening
round of initial proposals for deliberation on the back of an
envelope in about fifteen minutes.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:40 - ID#284255)
"plain, brutal short-term economic interest" srv/business/longterm/econ/econ.htm
Administration Urges New Bailout Funding
In an interview broadcast on PBS last night, President Clinton said restoring stability in Asian economies was not charity but in the "plain, brutal short- term economic interest" of the United States.
The Korean negotiations are being closely watched by members of Congress, many of whom have told the Clinton administration they will not approve additional funding for IMF if the money will be used, in effect, to rescue the big banks from the consequences of having made unwise loans to Korea and other Asian nations.

President Clinton acknowledged as much in his interview with PBS anchorman Jim Lehrer, saying he was also bothered by that. "You hate to see them get their money back, plus a profit, at someone else's expense," he said.

At the same time, Clinton warned that any solution requiring the banks to accept immediate losses on their bad loans would likely cause the banks to pull the rest of their money out of the region rather than extending the loans, causing the financial crisis to worsen.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:41 - ID#364147)
Good call!!!- - - Looks like everything is NOT alright with the world yet!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:50 - ID#284255)
Next liquidity crunch? srv/WAPO/19980121/V000232- 012198- idx.html
Philippines Seeks $5B From IMF
MANILA, Philippines ( AP ) - - The Philippines is negotiating with the International Monetary Fund and others for up to $5 billion in credit, the government said today - - even though its economy remains among the soundest in troubled Southeast Asia.
The credit, Ramos said, is ``just a precautionary thing'' in Southeast Asia's crisis.
``It is prudent for us to have ... some sort of standby credit line that the Philippines can call upon in case of extreme emergency,'' he said.
``We Filipinos are probably a little more fortunate than the others,'' Ramos said. ``We still have a belt to tighten and pants to hold up.''

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:51 - ID#185448)
Crisis? What Crisis?
El clino - causing a nasty little tsunami

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:52 - ID#153102)
While your're sketching out, put these facts in the list of problems.
1. The Arabs want payment in gold. Not 20% or 50% or 80% , but gold.
2. Every Nation State is broke. The polite phrase is technically bankrupt. Only arbitrary internal real estate valuations make even the appearance of solvency possible.
3. Pushing on a string achieves nothing. Japan is deflating and has been. Only external infusion could reflate Japan and that is contrary to their whole closed society and closed system.
4. The cost of debt is not a fixed cost.

And I think this is a fact to consider as well: all technological and political trends are toward decentralization.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:52 - ID#364147)
Asia according to WSJ

January 22, 1998

Indonesian Rupiah Keeps Falling,
As Hong Kong's Stocks Fall 3.9%


Hong Kong's market fell nearly 4% , along with other Asian bourses,
Thursday. Both the equities and currency markets in the region have been
distracted by the plunging Indonesian rupiah.

Hong Kong's key index fell 3.9% , hurt by the worsening situation in
Indonesia and widespread concerns over the health of the local brokerage

Nervousness over small brokerages has increased after investors
Wednesday besieged the authorities with complaints about C.A. Pacific
Securities Ltd., which went into provisional liquidation earlier this week.

The investors' complaints and the regional woes inspired a headline in one
local newspaper saying 'Crisis Of Confidence' in Hong Kong.

In addition, the shaky Indonesian currency still
keeps investors a little wary.

Indonesia's rupiah has plunged this week on
anxiety that President Suharto might choose
his longtime friend B.J. Habibie as his next
vice president and apparent successor. Mr.
Habibie, the country's controversial
technology minister, favors expensive national
projects that have been criticized by
international financial authorities as

Dragged alongside the Indonesian rupiah, which fell to a new historical low
of 14,400 rupiah to the dollar at one point Thursday, Asian currencies
such as the Thai baht and the Philippine peso fell against the U.S.

Late in Asia, the rupiah recovered a bit and traded at 12,050 to the dollar,
but still down from its Wednesday close at 11,500.

The Thai baht was trading at 53.85 to the dollar, also weaker from 53.52
at the Wednesday close. The Philippine currency was 42.375 to the
dollar, weaker from Wednesday's average of 41.223.

But the dollar fell against the yen on optimism the Japanese government
may come up with more measures to boost the nation's sagging economy.
After the close of Tokyo trading, the dollar was trading at 126.85 yen,
down 127.10 from late Wednesday in New York.

Tokyo's Nikkei fell 1.7% , hurt by the overnight drop on Wall Street and
profit- taking.

Masaru Arai, a general manager of the stock division at Ryoko Securities,
described the pull- back as a "natural, short- term pause" in the market's
rally. He said the market remains bullish with the government seen likely to
come up with further economic stimulus measures.

Foreign investors are continuing to hunt for bargains as they take a more
favorable view of the market, traders noted.

Profit- taking also hit South Korea, knocking the index down 4.5% . The
peso's retreat and profit- taking sent Manila's market down 2.7% .

Australia fell nearly 1% , hurt by a sharp sell- off in blue- chip National
Australia Bank Ltd. and the regional decline.

In early trading among markets that have not closed yet Thursday, the
falling rupiah sent indexes plunging in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and

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Copyright  1998 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 06:58 - ID#286199)
SILVER: Futures rallied on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange as traders reasoned that the market is positioned for a rally. The March contract rose 13 cents to $5.803 a troy ounce. George Gero, Prudential Securities' senior vice president, investments, said traders were encouraged to buy by the large number of short positions - - futures
contracts that have been sold - - which can help prices rise.

PEOPLE CLOSE TO AT& T say Chairman C. Michael Armstrong plans to cut as much as 15% of the work force, or 19,000 jobs, and reassign much of AT& T's senior management team. Armstrong will lay out the company's strategy at a major meeting on Monday.

Seagate is planning to lay off 10,000 people worldwide. The glue holding together the US economy is high employment. These announced layoffs are an early warning siren.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:00 - ID#333131)
A green president? What are the possible consequences? Help me think this through.
We have a real possibility of a green president ( in more ways than one ) . We need to think through the possible consequences. What mischief around the world will be encouraged? What will be the effect on the dollar? What else? I'm all ears people.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:00 - ID#228283)

all debts MUST be paid,either by the lender or the way or the other.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:08 - ID#228283)
@ Carl...

If you are too young to recall Nixon's departure..most markets rose. BUT, that was then ,this is now. IMHO the same thing will happen, only BIG TIME, nomatter who is named president.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:09 - ID#266105)
Last I saw Ms. Shelton had assumed a professorship in the Economics
Dept. of the University of Mexico, Mexico City advising and consulting
with government officials in the wake of the peso collapse on monetary
policy in developing countries subject to manic- depressive capital flows
both foreign and domestic. I suspect she had the opportunity to witness
first hand the effects in the environs and gained some experience in
dealing with officials, their 'thinking' and suchlike.

I think we'd agree she's steeped in some of the best thinking
in her area of expertise, thinking which spans firsthand experience
with most of this century. I dunno, maybe she knows what she's talking
about as a practical approach, realpolitick, from training, experience
and familiarity with most of the terrain, and recognition and respect
to bring to it.

Bob M
(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:12 - ID#26059)
Let us see how the world reacts to the almighty dollar and the lofty US stock market if AL Gore becomes president....oh boy...better be buying lumber futures..dont you just look forward to being talked to as if you were a 4 year old...gheeesh...maybe we can tolerate Clinton for another year or two...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:19 - ID#153102)
Anybody in this world who had anything of substance to lend was cleaned out by the socialists a long, long time ago.

Default is a black hole in the gas inside the balloon. First expansion stops. Then, when the ballon is at equilibrium, one more black hole is all it takes to drflate until the gas is a solid.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:22 - ID#347447)
Hey John, - as observed a couple of weeks ago, that Mars/Jupiter conjunction on Durban's Sun Yesterday, Today, & Tommorrow sure is kickin' A$$! Let's see what it does to the NYSE. Will look at more RSA gold charts...maybe I've found my "medium"?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:26 - ID#364147)
Bubba + Monica
What's the big stink?- - - she wasn't 'jail- bait' THREE years~~~~~~~

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:26 - ID#26793)
Rubin spending time being nice to Sen. Byrd

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:30 - ID#153102)
If she has a plan to save their paper, they will listen to her. If she doesn't, they won't. They will listen to Harvard and Stanford and all of the other brain trusts that have been sucking up to them since FDR brought academia to Washington.

You can be sure they will do something international to save the paper. But, will it work ?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:30 - ID#26793)
Traders seeing some dollar weakness on presidential troubles

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:34 - ID#36965)
Bill Clinton Heffner
The fact that Clinton has not been run out of town on a rail and tarred and feathered is indicative of the moral climate in which we live. We have arrived at the place where we do not expect our leaders to be role models. Maybe roll in the hay models but that seems to be about it. Even in Kennedy's day if the fact of his sexual exploits had become general knowledge he would have been hissed at rather than being worshipped by the populace. My wife thinks that all people in government are moral low lives but I have assured her that most are decent moral people who do have values. I hope that I am right. At any rate here's hoping that gold will surge like Clinton's blood pressure did when he found the latest bad news coming out against him.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:36 - ID#364147)
Hey brother,can ya spare a ---------

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:37 - ID#364147)
Your wife is right

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:38 - ID#266105)
I don't know if it will work, it isn't working and it
hasn't even hardly begun.

Collapse to solid, nice image, nice chat, away...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:39 - ID#286199)
It isn't the affair that causes problems, it's the perjury and suborning to commit perjury. These are the felonies that could bring him down. In 1992, Bill Clinton swore that he had never had an affair with Ms. Flowers. Yesterday, he admitted that he had. The man is a pathological liar and his habit has become so egregious that even his buddies in the press can't stand the smell any longer.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:41 - ID#153102)
"My wife thinks that all people in government are moral low lives but I
have assured her that most are decent moral people who do have values"

The most important value to anybody in government who counts is assessed tax value.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:43 - ID#177109)
I remember several years ago when one of the bullish arguments here for gold was klintone's expected indictment by Mr. Starr. How about it folks? A zipper rally?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:44 - ID#177109)
Tail- gate?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:48 - ID#93232)
Don't leave home without it.
Today is Kevlar Day...the tale that the Clinton boys will spin today will entangle them all...their's is to exist inside the cocoon along with the withering larva loosely attached to a weakened branch of the government tree. The cold wind blows.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:51 - ID#238295)
Someone on an gold thread claims that China has agreed not to devalue if the US and G7 move to reflate Asian economies and currencies. If true very bullish for gold and Asian markets, very bearish for the greenback.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:55 - ID#419147)
mozel..anything of substance
As I have posted here several times is only medium of exchange..I agree gold has been and IS the hardest currency mankind has known for milleniums but it is ONLY MONEY. Therefore, i sort of support karlitos theory of Asians being too poor to buy gold. If somebody.. anybody..earns ( read: produces ) only as much as he/she needs to pay for ( read: can exchange for ) food, shelter, education of his kids and so on , THE HELL WITH GOLD.

Also, the real WEALTH is production capacity, e. g. ability to produce food, shelter, or BMW- s, or Sony VCR- s, so if you need to give up gold to keep production capacity, THE HELL WITH GOLD. Maybe this also partly explains the fancy in stock market and "Flight to safety". Having enough production capacity..and stock IS virtual share of factory, building or oil filed.. ( under the nuclear shield of the only superpower ) of food, gas, houses and so on does not sound too stupid.

Take into account the new tecnologies to process low grade ore ( under 280 US$ per oz I understand ) . ( This would change of cource when the prices of energy, chemicals and so on rise ) .

And last but not least:

During previous financial crises the problem was that ppl could not realize ( read: sell for ) the claimed value of their assets, there was not enough money to pay for it. Now money is not a limited resource, hard assets are. So the economic crisis did not take of when SEAsian currencies collapsed, it took off when DOW skyrocketed, meaning lots of people tried to get rid of dollars.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:56 - ID#177109)
Oldman pointed out that if Algore and Newton Grinchgrinch go to prison too that none other than Senator Strom Thurmond would be our Maximum Leader. Kewl!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 07:59 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Thanks John, for your kind words,
it's nice to know I got good friend.

"Ziva" is relatively simple case to
investigate. ANOTHER is at least smart.

Tabulli is one of my favorite foods.
I bet you know what it is. Robby Hanna
provided excelent recipe on this site
according to my request. See her posts
yesterday night.

In regard to Ziva - you know my weak
point - I hate BullS...+ there is something
else which makes me curious. Will find out
very soon....

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:02 - ID#419147)
US debt
Check out following link


(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:05 - ID#348169)
Speculation - Then as Now!
From Tooke's 'History of Prices' ( an ancient tome ) : "Princes, nobles, politicians, placemen, patriots, lawyers, physicians, divines, philosophers, poets, intermingled with woman of all ranks and degrees ( spinsters, wives, widows ) - hastened to venture some portion of their property in schemes of which scarcely anything was known except the names."

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:08 - ID#266105)


(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:08 - ID#390214)
US $

NEW YORK ( MktNews ) - The dollar ended near session lows Wednesday after

weakening in afternoon activity on news that the White House may face an

investigation on charges of obstruction of justice, traders said.

Traders said liquidation of long dollar positions continued

during most of the session.

Though wrongdoing was denied by President Clinton and

White House spokesperson Mike McCurry, traders believe an investigation

could weaken the president and bruise U.S. financial markets.

"The Clinton situation is putting pressure on the dollar," said a

chief dealer at a European bank.

"They're really trying to nail this guy," said John Hazelton, chief

dealer at Manufacturers and Traders Bank.

Independent counsel Kenneth Starr - - of Whitewater fame - - will

seek an investigation into allegations that Clinton and his advisor,

Vernon Jordan, urged a former White House intern to lie to lawyers for

Paula Jones.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:10 - ID#398105)
Gebernax........talking about "new technologies".....

Ask Pegasus Gold Inc.........I think they tried a first at Mt Todd, via a four stage crushing circuit. I believe that they went bust.............

Asian...........they have got the "goods" Mate: for example -
Epithermal Gold in the Philippines -
Island Arc Metallogenesis, Geothermal Systems and Geology.
By Mitchell and Leach
ISBN 0- 12 499610- 8
Academic Press.

The Victoria Mine, Lepanto in the Mankayan District, has a history of gold mining back to the Ming dynasty. It has a geological resource the order of 360 million tonnes at 2 g/t Au and 0.9% Cu - one of the largest in the world.

You must differentiate between primary and secondary production - you refer to secondary ?!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:13 - ID#93232)
@oris...good morning....
Isn't this dish a Lebanese favorite. Not jewish.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:14 - ID#238422)
Re: "read my lips oris"

Already did...

As you said in one of your posts:

"Even an old woman with half brain can

figure it all out".

Nice to meet you...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:14 - ID#427357)

THE END OF THE LINE... for the Silver Lease CON

Ted Butler is the worlds foremost expert in nuances, intricacies and ramifications of GOLD & SILVER LEASES. Many months ago he exposed the Central Banks ill use of Gold Leasing Operations. Now he shares his insightful observations regarding the Silver Loan CON.

And don't be surprised with future tactics intended to derail
what promises to be a very long and sharp price UPWARD spiral for silver.

...there is no way that the vast bulk of silver loaned can ever be returned.

That was then, this is now - the silver lease CON is over! Here's
why: the report may be read by copying & pasting the above URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:24 - ID#238422)
Yes, technically you right, but who cares,
good food is good food. But tabulli is not
exclusively Lebanese, its's popular all over
Middle East and in some other countries.

Ziva could not give this recipe...

No chocolate for Ziva...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:28 - ID#348169)
Presidents, Pawns, and Fools
All this talk of who the next C.E.O. of the great U.S.of A. may beis hilarious. It is a NEVER- ending debate, the gist of which, it seems, the majority of Americans seem to waste a VERY large part of their lives debating. Who cares? In this day and age does it really matter - or has the endless debate just become another brick in the wall? Another part of the program that those REALLY in control use to divert the masses from using their grey masses? C'mon sheep - put on your glasses! As Ted says, "You get what you deserve."
AAR - Chear up, ( my fellow ( sort of ) Americans ) , after all you could have had this fellow to look up to as your NOMINAL leader:
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind- -
or not to have a mind. How true that is."
- - - - - - - Dan Quayle
Y'all have a good day now.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:30 - ID#93232)
It is delicious. beef jerky for Ziva. You have a good friend in me also. Well fellow Gold appears that we are positioned to make some money today. Even a lowly gold bug has his day,eh?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:31 - ID#348169)
Raw Raw Raw
Cheer, Cheer, Cheer!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:35 - ID#398105) must be proud to be an American.........

National Debt:
01/20/1998 $5,495,525,658,807.45

Increasing at a rate of $1,000,000,000 per day.............STRUTH

Aye, I suppose that you Americans have a different value concept when compared to others: for example -

Did you hear about the Scotsman who got arrested for breaking into a
five pound note?

He was let off with a caution because it was his first offence.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:38 - ID#183109)

"Ms. Lewinsky told Ms. Tripp that she was in love with Clinton, said one investigator, and that their affair had lasted more than a year. Several investigators said that Ms. Lewinsky also played for Ms. Tripp several taped telephone messages left on her answering machine by the president. Unbeknownst to Ms. Lewinsky, Ms. Tripp also taped this conversation, including the messages from the president, the investigators say."

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:38 - ID#253228)
Today money is backed by gold --your choice
Back when gold was openly used for money the banks would create additional money in the form of bank credit. This credit ( bank notes, checking accounts, etc. ) was redeemable in gold but there was not enough gold to redeem all the credit ( fractional reserve banking ) and periodically there were runs on banks where creditors demanded gold. Today Central Banks do hold some gold although you can't go to the bank and excahnge your bank notes or checking account for it and now the official reserve is not gold, but certain government debt and certain bank debt. Because the debt "reserve" can easily be expanded we have had a tremendous expansion of bank credit ( new money ) .
I think that it is impossible to overcome the free market in the long term while it is possible to do so in the short run.
If you look at the Asian crisis you will see that the Asian banks overexpanded credit which caused a big price run up in the products market. When the expansion reached its natural limit the plateau and then collapse came. Like in old days, people feared for the soundness of the banks and the bank credit so they wanted to get out of bank credit, but this time they couldn't go to the bank and demand gold coins.
They instead tried to find a safer form of bank credit and they chose the US dollar. While gold did rise in relationship to their "currencies" it did not rise as much as the dollar in relationship to their "currencies" which tells me that they did not opt for gold.
Now the interesting point for gold will be reached when the US dollar is no longer the safe haven. Then not only will Asians be looking for something safer, but so will the US citizens and since they can't get gold directly from the banking system they will go to the market palce. It will be an indirect run on banks.
So you see all currency is backed by gold, at least indirectly, and the free market will work. It is just a matter of time until the bank run starts in the US. Everything has its internal timetable and finding out when the time is ripe for gold is a wealth creater for those with the correct timing. If you are too early, you run the risk of being swamped by the initial deflationary pressure that will effect the commodity demand for gold.
I think it is possible that some gold shares could lose 90% of their value by the end of this quarter before they turn and start a dramatic run. That is contrary to an opinion I had a month ago, so you cannot rely on me for timing. I do think that if you are thinking of getting out of bank debt into gold and gold relateds, you might want to wait just a few months longer. Like I tell my wife, "I can always lose money later, so why the rush?"

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:40 - ID#392328)

EARLY MORNING GOLD UP $2.10..................................

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:41 - ID#398105)
What are the Japanese doing ?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:49 - ID#348169)
2BRO2B - You have a comment on my 8:05 or was ( ! ) that it?
Someone earlier this morning was pointing out that once the Asian currencies skyrocketed it makes it very expensive for the locals to purchase gold in their own currencies. I pointed out this obvious fact ( on these pages ) some four months ago as a factor that I thought might ( very ) temporarily push down the demand for gold. Since then I have seen this concept brought forward in a multitude of articles through- out the financial world. There are arguments on both sides. My thought was that it would have an effect, but a very temporary effect. The last word on the subject, I believe, lies in the following quote:
"Money often costs too much."
- - - - - - - Ralph Waldo Emerson

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:52 - ID#284255)
DNA trace? srv/digest/daily/jan98/21/newsweek.htm
Diary of a Scandal - full story

Europe in the red tonight.
Russia down 7% again.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 08:59 - ID#253228)
I have similar thoughts about Asian nonbuying of gold. If people are buying gold as insurance then it is a little late to buy the insurance after the fire. That is when you cash in your insurance as did the Koreans in the great gold roundup.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:00 - ID#238422)
Thanks, Studio.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:01 - ID#347447)
Aint Kitco grand? We may be losing money on gold ( 'cept RJ who has admitted he goes both ways - er...shorts that is...ummm ) and the world may be going to Hell in a handbasket, but we eat and drink real good, don't we gang? The recent spate of Taboulli ( taboulleh, Tabulli...etc ) recipes has prompted me, Torfeasor style, to contribute my personal Cuban- style black beans for that great national dish of the erstwhile Pearl of the Antilles, Rice n' Beans! ( Arroz con habichuelas ) . This of course is in honor of the Pope's visit, bringing about 20 million in spending for La Isla Mentirita, by assorted newspeople and hangers- on of all stripes. Plenty of Beans for a while, eh Fidelito? I assure all Kitcoites this basic recipe is NOT from a cookbook, but from having spent, thru marriage, nearly 30 years as an honorary member of the Latin Community.

Go to a Latin market and get small "sweet chilies." NOT HOT. They are little, roundish, green and red and yellow.

In a big tall soup pot saute about ten chopped up sweet chilies along with 1 big chopped onion, and a chopped green pepper in about 2- 4 Tbs Olive Oil. Add 1/2 tsp ground cumin, and 1 tsp mild curry powder ( Jamaican is nice ) When onions are just about golden ( the gold part justifies this recipe on Kitco ) add about a cupful of roughly chopped fresh coriander ( "Chinese Parsley" )

Stir a few more minutes, then add about 2 quarts of water, and about a little less than a pound of dried black turtle beans. Add a Tbs salt, and a package of smoked pork neckbones ( get it in any supermarket ) ( ( should be 7 - 10 chunks ) ) .

Bring to a boil, cut back to a simmer and cover. Cook at medium covered simmer until beans are done, and liquid is at a thick consistency for ladling over rice ( keep an eye on the thickness, adding water when needed ) . ( probably 1 - 1/2 hours ) Add salt to taste after the first half hour. A packet of Goya "Sazon" ( con Achiote! ) would not be out of step with modern day cooking here, tho it is not "authentico" in the total sense of the palabra. Add a nice bunch of fresh washed coriander in the last 10 minutes. Feeds 4 or 5, with leftovers. Make a sh*tload of white rice to taste, and serve with plenty of cold beer and meat or fish of your choice. Ainemah!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:08 - ID#238422)
Mike Sheller - Thanks, very interesting....

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:11 - ID#287280)
Remember Corrigan's "Settlements Risk List"?
Indonesian demonstrators press Suharto to step down
An Indonesian student holds a picture of the ousted leader of the
Indonesian Democratic Party ( PDI ) Megawati Sukarnoputri during a protest outside national parliament building in Jakarta on January 22. At least 200Indonesian students staged a fresh protest against President Suharto urging the former army general to step down to save the country from its debilitating economic crisis. Megawati, daughter of the late founding
president Sukarno, has said she is ready to become president.

Y2K@A.Question.Please Yesterday I posted a portion of a Canadian Embassy ( Beijing ) report which included the statment, "is now more and more concerned by the tendency of many Chinese institutions, ESPECIALLY BANKS, to develop their own private networks rather than using the public ones..." Could this mean that the Chinese are insulating their banks ( especially ) from contamination by Y2K? That they will have- - in effect- - the only 100% working monetary/cash flow? Is this too fanciful
to be seriously contemplated?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:16 - ID#341293)
Dear Mike .....

Mike, Thanks so much for the recipe. There is one word in the whole item that worries me though.
You ended the experiment with the word "Ainemah! "....
Is it possible that it might be a "latin" pronunciation of the word "enema"?
I mean, after that concoction, perhaps it was a Freudian slip?


(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:16 - ID#398105)
And now for something completely different ... Kalgoorlie, City of Gold

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:19 - ID#256254)
Thursday January 22, 8:23 am Eastern Time

Dollar makes little headway by Europe midsession

Good Morning SDRer and Sharefin. What are your views regrading the U.S. dollar especially in light of Bill C's recent problems?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:22 - ID#256254)
Oooops the link :

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:22 - ID#426220)
Mike Sheller ( Yummy ) : I HAVE IT ON GOOD AUTHORITY that the Fidel Castro crowd eat a daily ration of a very similar recipe od black beans and rice, which is cutely called "MOROS Y CRISTIANOS" - due to the physical appearance of BOTH.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:27 - ID#398105)
A "Typical American"................"You know you're a liberal if"

You think sexual harassment is rampant, date rape pervasive, domestic
violence common and Paula Jones is lying.

You hate Hillary jokes. You pale at the execution of child killers, but
defend the killing of unborn children as an expression of choice.

You think trees have feelings, animals can conceptualize and the fetus
is a blob of protoplasm.

You are convinced that Frank Capra films and Norman Rockwell paintings
are lies and distortions but "Platoon," "Dances with Wolves" and "Thelma
and Louise" are realistic.

You thought Walt Disney was saccharine sweet and terminally cutesy- pie
- until it made "Pocahontas."

You think a moment of silent prayer at the beginning of the school day
constitutes government indoctrination and an intrusion on parental
authority, while sex education, condom distribution and multiculturalism
are values- neutral.

You agonize over threats to the natural environment ( acid rain, toxic
waste ) but are oblivious to threats to the social environment
( pornography, promiscuity and family dissolution ) .

You want to legalize cocaine and outlaw handguns.

You think cops are pigs and criminals are products of their

You believe the National Rifle Associations helps criminals while the
American Civil Liberties Union protects the innocent.

You think Rush Limbaugh is responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing
but are outraged by suggestions that Ted Kaczynski ( the suspected
Unabomber ) and Al Gore have anything in common. Jesse Jackson makes
sense to you. Barbra Streisand makes even more sense.

You think Herblock cartoons are funny and Janet Reno is totally hot.

You believe corporate profits are obscene but government spending is
too low and the American people are undertaxed.

You think deficits are caused by tax loopholes.

You think marriage is obsolete - - except for homosexuals.

You think AIDS is spread by insufficient funding.

You consider the Catholic bishops noble and idealistic when they oppose
capital punishment and welfare cuts but dangerous fanatics trying to
legislate their theology when they defend the right to life.

You are convinced that proponents of welfare reform hate the poor and
opponents of affirmative action hate minorities, but AIDS activists who
bash the pope and People for the American Way types who go psycho over
Protestant "fundamentalists" are guardians of democracy.

You attribute every minority problem to entrenched, institutional
racism and the legacies of slavery and segregation.

You think the black middle class is a myth created by Newt Gingrich.

You view race riots as justifiable expressions of rage over injustice
and fail to see the similarities between a black mob burning a Korean
store and a white mob in the Jim Crow era lynching a black man.

You don't understand all of the whining about affirmative action and
are more than willing to sacrifice someone else's employment or
education opportunity to assuage your guilt.

You marched against American involvement in Vietnam, thought the Gulf
War was unnecessary but believe 25,000 U.S. troops in Bosnia are vital
to our national interests.

You see no correlation between welfare and the rise of illegitimacy,
judicial leniency and surging crime rates, or addiction and an
entertainment industry that glorifies drug abuse. But you believe
Richard Nixon is responsible for everything horrible that's happened in
the past quarter- century.

You think those child- abusing religious fanatics at Waco had it coming
but the illegal immigrants roughed up by California deputies - - after
leading them on a high speed chase - - are the victims of the decade.

"Lastly, you're a liberal if you don't get the point of this column."

from.........Don Feder

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:32 - ID#398105)
Aye, I think I can now see your problem...............................

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:33 - ID#284255)
Gold up - US$ down.
What's under more pressure, Clinton or the US$.
Interesting to note how the chat sites are awash with sentiment over Clinton.
I don't think I've ever seen something talked about as much.
Avid has been fascinating over the last 24hrs.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:35 - ID#398105)
US$300 by Monday??

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:36 - ID#288399)
Haggis....your "liberal"post...
I don't even know you.....and I love you.....keep up those posts! My 85- year old parents really loved your "Scotsman" jokes, as did I. It's really said that the liberals have been running the US since Kennedy.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:39 - ID#398105)
sharefin...........if only

Aye, life is a wee bit boring here in Aussie.

If only Johnnie Howard and Old Kim would let their hair down......... but I suppose we have always got Cheryl ?!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:40 - ID#256254)
Date: Thu Jan 22 1998 09:33
sharefin ( Gold up - US$ down. ) ID#284255:

If I were a forex trader, I would call all my associates and attack the U.S. dollar starting NOW! There is nothing but gravy waiting for them.

Will the attack begin NOW????

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:47 - ID#401460)
Jack Welsh CEO of GE on CNBC
We have been in Deflation for a long time
"The last thing anybody should be doing is thinking about raising rates right now"

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:51 - ID#284255)
Must be soon?
Still a battle between the bulls and bears.
And the bulls still have all the money.
For now.

Is that all we've got?
At least we've got Cheryl.

What's going on with NDY.
Lots of big sellers in their today.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:53 - ID#398105)
Shlomo..........the scene, a Bar in the East End of Glasgow in Scotland !

A Scotsman walks into a pub and orders three double whiskies. He downs
one, engages in casual conversation with the barman, eventually
finishing the other two.

Next day he comes in and does the same. This goes on for a few days until the barman finally says:

"You know, I can put all those doubles in a pint glass for you."

"No, no, I prefer it this way. See, I'm very close to my two brothers,
but one lives in America now and the other in Australia, so this
represents a drink for each of us. This way I can be closer to them and
feel like we are all having a drink together."

The barman agrees and continues to set them up as requested.

This goes on for several months, then one day, the Scotman orders only two doubles. The barman begins to worry that maybe something has happened to one of his brothers. Finally, he asks:

"Is everything all right?"

"What do you mean?" replies the Scotsman.

"Well", the barman says, "All these months you've ordered three drinks.
Now you've only ordered two, I hope something didnt happen to one of
your brothers."

"Oh no," the Scotsman replied, "Theyre both fine. It's just that I quit

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:55 - ID#398105)
sharefin.....I'm trying to forget about Carmen Lawrence !!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:57 - ID#286250)
What goes around, comes around...
"Now when that which is Perfect is come, then that which is in
part shall be done away." But when doth it come? I say, when as
much as may be, it is known, felt and tasted of the soul. For the
lack lieth altogether in us, and not in it. In like manner the
sun lighteth the whole world, and is as near to one as another,
yet a blind man seeth it not; but the fault thereof lieth in the
blind man, not in the sun...

Remarks by E. Gerald Corrigan Chairman, International Advisors Goldman, Sachs & Co. at the Symposium on Risk Reduction in Payments, Clearance and Settlement Systems
 is useful to catalogue the possible sources of events that could produce a major shock to payments, clearance and settlement systems into five groups

1.Natural disasters**
2 .Mechanical Failures
3 .Political Shocks**
4.Major Market Shocks***
5.Impaired Financial Institutions***

Haggis@Liberal.American.Litany Well Done! ( as usual )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 09:59 - ID#398105)

(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:10 - ID#286250)
A. Goose, Sharefin--Good Morning!
Focused intelligence is always a joy to watch!

A. Goose- - 'Sources' indicate you're going to win our bet. The Mums is on ice {:- )

Sharefin- - Sending you a site ( Renaissance Kind of Think Tank ) where
your Renaissance Mind will find delights ( I hope ) {:- )

As for the dollar- - My 'read' is that business- - as I said before- - will
be yelling bloody murder. The DEMAND for sound money will begin to find
a firm constituency in people who want to concentrate their energies on
producing their widgits, not trying to figure- out how to hedge against constant currency REPRICINGS. Davos is going to be a melee this year!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:15 - ID#377211)
GOLD double bottom
IMHO, I think that GOLD, FSAGX and ALTA have established a double bottom ( ALTA fits the definition I use ) . Does this board agree with that? I am no gold specialist but shocked at the discussion here ( I mean the absence of great excitement about what is hapening slowly with gold these days... then again, I may have become irrational with gold bright prospects...

Good luck all


(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:16 - ID#398105)
WOW...................The Coming Oil Crisis................and GOLD

Give this a read........

(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:25 - ID#31868)
9:27 - Priceless.

Dave in CO
(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:27 - ID#215211)
I posted both stories ( DNA and "Diary of a Scandal" ) yesterday. Oh well, the few posts I've written have apparently gone up in invisible ink.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:31 - ID#419147)
Me never been an american in my life..never been there either!!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:32 - ID#286230)
Haggis__A (A "Typical American"........."You know you're a liberal
Haggis: Amazing. I imagine you will receive a lot of similiar comments from citizens of the USA once they figure out what state Australia is in.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:32 - ID#348129)
AL GORE is just an orgasm away from the presidency : - ) )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:36 - ID#36965)
More Clinton more or less
MoReGoLd, you are brutal. I like that in a person. Listening to John Imus this morning interviewing several about the people who are in the know back east this may be the real deal. The "I" word is being bandied about. Paper is down again. Gold is making its move up. Ted, you are probably right about my wife. Usually I lose arguments with her.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:41 - ID#258427)
I love it...
They got a new word ... love it ...TAILGATE....

(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:41 - ID#258427)
I love it...
They got a new word ... love it ...TAILGATE....

(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:50 - ID#254269)
New Coach for Dallas Cowboys ?
I had a breakfast meeting this morninga nd one of the guys was saying that Jerry Jones may have a new candidate for the coaching position.
Understand his name is Clinton. Don't know how much he knows about football.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:51 - ID#258427)
Dow Bull
I am beginning to believe that NOTHING can kill this DOW BULL...

Steve - Perth
(Thu Jan 22 1998 10:56 - ID#284177)
Steves specially edited: NEWS VIA AUSTRALIA
The real Cheryl Kernot came out this week for all to see. And
it was ugly. She has a major attitude problem. What she forgets is
that a lot of people are starting to see through her soft & fuzzy stuff.


What to do about Asia

The coming oil shock

Australian economy feels the pinch

Hong Kong's lost confidence

Turmoil affecting Japanese exports

US greets the year with symptoms of Asian flu

Rupiah plunges again, tensions rise

Chaos feared as rupiah hits new low

Lawyers say profit from Asian pain


This time it's for real, Kim warns chaebols

ANZ Bank $2.7bn Asian fallout

Intriguing moves in HK property moves - Time to buy??

Bargain hunt on in Korea

Japan: the $164bn collapse

Soros rumoured to clean up in Korea

Is Asia qualifying for 'blood in the streets' time?

Cross rate gives lie to crisis


Russian Update

A New Economic Order is coming

Airlines cannot fix Y2K Bug in time ( Jan 15th article ) bin/update.cgi

Behind Hashimoto's Remark on Dumping U.S. Treasuries

Japanese Communist Party gaining ground with jaded voters

Deflation: Strategies to cope with it

China still haunted by devaluation

Profits of arms manufacturers will fall due to Asian cancellations

Results indicate Gold oversold

Asian blowout feared for European car makers

Asia a worry for German banks

IMF blames sloppy banking for current crisis

Central Europe suffers emerging- market flu

Delinking HK dollar a different ball game

Taiwan prepares for yuan's fall by June - - just in case

BOOKMARK Steves News Page:
( Courtesy of Colin Seymour )

Barb Hughes
(Thu Jan 22 1998 11:00 - ID#20783)


You answered the Pop Quiz!!!

Take care....Barb

(Thu Jan 22 1998 11:20 - ID#273227)
Speed 6:48 - a rumor I heard is that AT& T will announce a takeover of @Home. The cable based ISP.

For Super Bowl junkies - the best bet available IMHO is A. Freeman scoring the first TD at 6- 1. He will be defended by the famous Darrien Gordon of San Degio Charger fame. Holmgren is great at building a game plan to exploit a player. Freeman should have a big day.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 11:41 - ID#333232)
Buaidhi no bas

(Thu Jan 22 1998 11:47 - ID#298259)
Just for the record ( and I have lots of them...yes, tar and feather me...even the Monkeey's...I Wanna Be Free ) I know that gender isn't all that important on the superhighway but if you were to see me driving on the general highway you would see that I am a she, not a he. Keep your convictions.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:01 - ID#28594)
The possibility of ANY China 'deals' with G-7:
Where stability is a value
Inflation is an anathema.

Where gerontocracy rules
historys mud clings to the boots
of living memory

Where eyes are open
and not round
what is seen is believed

and the promises
of strangers
are invisible motes of dust

China has no need to accommodate the West

(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:08 - ID#254269)
Dow at 7748 (down 46 points at noon, volume 310 million shares.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:18 - ID#261157)
Canadian Dollar Falls To Historic Low
Reuters - The Canadian dollar fell to its lowest level ever on Thursday, as market speculation grew that the Bank of Canada would not raise interest rates to shore up the currency. The unit dropped to 68.99 U.S. cents, - - a level unseen since the establishment of the Canadian dollar in 1858. The central bank intervened at least twice to buy Canadian dollars in money markets. The dollar closed on Wednesday at 69.18 cents, very near the previous all- time low of 69.13 U.S. cents on Feb. 4, 1986. Canada's dollar has now shed five percent of its value in the past three months.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:34 - ID#224149)
Save@the@C$ @dollar
CHEROKEE - please stop shorting c$ otherwise we will have to send the C.M.P. - - - after you're smoke signals - - - Away to find that cute chick flowers

(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:35 - ID#93232)
Me and my assumptions....I'm sorry. However, it goes against good judgement to reveal owning a Monkees record. What were you thinking?, hearing? While you were listening to them...I was probably listering to Blind Faith or Cream...I have a few problems, too!

New Kid on the Block
(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:35 - ID#389125)
Speaking of Football...
NFL season's almost over and thought I'd share this with all before Clinton took the reins for the Cowboys.

Barry Switzer, clearly upset about the Cowboy's losing record, decides to visit the 49ers head coach, Steve Mariucci, so he goes to a 49ers practice one day.

Switzer: "Coach, your team is always so good. What's your secret?"

Mariucci calls Steve Young over and asks, "Steve, who's your father's brother's nephew?"

Young: "That's easy coach. It's me!"

Mariucci: "That's the secret, Barry. A smart quarterback. You've got to have a smart quarterback."

Now having the secret, Switzer returns to Texas. At the next Cowboy's practice, he calls Troy Aikman over and demands "Who's your father's brother's nephew?"

Aikman: "Can I get back to you on that coach?"

After practice, Aikman finds Deion Sanders and tells him about Switzer's strange question.

Sanders: "Duh! That's easy. It's me!"

Aikman finds Switzer in the parking lot and says "Coach, I've got it now. My father's brother's nephew is Deion Sanders!"

Switzer, looking very disgusted, replies "NO, NO, NO! You idiot! It's Steve Young!"

Go Packers!!!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:35 - ID#287207)
nomercy; Cherokee
Looks like you guys were right. C$ has made history. Living here I have seen no effect as of yet. Plan to take some U$ and D- marks and get them changed into C$. Probably won't be needing them soon anyway.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:35 - ID#254269)
@ Steve-Perth; Thanks for "Steve's News Service"; I can get much of my news

in one place. When you have time, could you let me know how you do
those "multiple" posts in one post to Kitco. I have now figured out how to do one at a time, but I don't know how to do more than that .
Hope everythings okay.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:42 - ID#238422)
Ziva, I'm honestly trying to check out your "lips" story...
Ziva, I just talked to my Chinese friend,
he said he knows "nuthin" about fighting
on Arab side in WW3. He said "American is
gooood...gooood... no fighting with America".

He makes an excelent Mongolian Beef....
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To be continued....

John Disney__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:47 - ID#24135)
Jupiter collided with Dbn-deep
For Mike Sheller -

I am a convert - where do I sign up. Dbn- deep is up 17 %

so far TODAY when last I looked. You wont believe me but about

6 months ago, I owned 2 per cent of the company and they would

call me up about doing things. Called me twice.

Each time I asked for more info and then said what are

the other options. They said that there weren't any so I

said "well then lets go ahead". It was fun - kind of like

being a real person again, but pretty expensive overall.

I got in via the bufflesfontein/blyvy takeover by the brett

kebble chutzpah and paper machine.

I bought even more Buffles as some local nut with an obvious

death wish kept selling the stock down, and was driving me

crazy - finally he contacted my broker and offered ALL

his stock at 10% below market and it still had about a 15%

arbitrage advantage in it on the switch to DD ( He wanted out for his

own reasons ) . So I took it. But boy I had sleepless nights

and I finally sold it all off so now all I have is options

at a crazy strike good through 2003 I think.

For Ziva - - Please come Back ziva - Oris is really sorry.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:51 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Sure, I am sorry...

Come back, Ziva, Come back!

Just try...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:51 - ID#257136)
Clinton's bastardy!
All: Particularly DaveinCO.
Until a couple weeks ago,I had on my email a letter from an Arkie who has resided here a long time. Maybe his lifetime.
Known to me only by a posting sobriquet. He once posted me an email as response to one of my "inflammatory" posts on a local forum.
( For the interested, try Politics forum on )

The gist of the post was a story apparently widely distributed in Hot Springs . The redoubtable Virginia Kelly or whatever her maiden name was was playin' steady footsie with a local M.D. of some renown.
As the rumor had it, our prez was one of the results.

Could be or not be true. Fact is, the mama selected a guy who apparently could not deny possibility ( Blythe ) of his studhood. Was he already dead at time of his selection by Virginia? Quien sabe?

All of which points to the background which was a major factor in the forming of a prez.
Continuity of love and true affection is the hallmark of a FAMILY.

wjbc, as nearly as I have been able to learn,ol' slick has had neither. ( Makin' the'woodscolt' fair game fer the likes of ol' Quigley and his sponsors. CFR, et. al.! ) As child or as immature adult. Witness his sexual peccadillos!

The old adage "like father like son" seems to be appropos in the instance of slick willy!

No matter how it is viewed, looks as if the poor guy IS A BASTARD in fact, not just in ONSHOs! ( OUR HSHOS )

John Disney__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:55 - ID#24135)
We need more girls in this pub
Cmon Oris -

You are making things worse with Ziva - She does not want

you checking this info out with Chinese guys. Just be quiet

and accept it. Get ready for WW3. If nothing happens well then

we're ahead of the game. Dont make the girls mad though because

they add that feminine touch we need so badly. Its getting a

bit like the NY Yankees locker room here sometimes -

Can you send me the Chinese guys recipe for Mongolian beef.

I got Mikes rice and beans. I'm gonna start the GoldBugs Cookbook.

Maybe we can make some money that way.

Spud Master
(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:57 - ID#273112)
Chip in another one...
Just got off the phone to my Congressional Representative's minion - I said I only had one word to say:


The young chap ( intern? ) said "yes, it is pretty awful..."

oh yes: Go gold! GO DROOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 12:58 - ID#254269)
I thought Camdesus ( tolerant 1's buddy ) "fixed" Indonesia,

it's not over yet, folks.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:02 - ID#249147)
Drudge Report

It looks like big brother has switched off the Drudge report. He has been all over the current sex scandal which in Europe we find silly quite frankly. Now it is impossible at least for me to access the site.

Day one of the critical two days looks bad for the metals and dubious for equities. The yen weakness looks like trouble tonight in Asia.

Good hunting.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:05 - ID#257136)
EARL: Re: yours of 01:15!!
Would you please email me? ( my email is down, but have arrangements made for this one to accept limited email for me )

I too have paifd the dues of which you speak. Would like to tarda info if you are interested.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:05 - ID#26793)
@Mike Sheller: Russia has military astrologers

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:11 - ID#287207)
baba Looks silly north of the border as well. In France the mistress's and illegitimate children attend the funeral. But make no mistake it is of great importance in the US were they have unfortunately got the Head of State and the chief politician all wrapped up in the same guy.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:13 - ID#238422)
John Disney
O.K. John, just because I respect you.

I'll do it for you, what a heck...

My goal was only to find out if we
gonna have a WW3 this year,
I'm currently short on ammo - you know,
my beer can campaign consumed a lot of it,
so I was looking to stockpile some, and with
all this WW3 thing I was not sure how much
of ammo I need to get.

Still don't know, if Ziva is right about China
joining Arabs in fight, I guess I need a lot...

Oh, well... I'll trust my Chinese friend.

Will buy just my usual 2 tins ( 1 crate ) .
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ziva! Baby! Remember, John Disney did it for you...

and I did it for John...

Come back, please.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:14 - ID#194311)
interesting info on that site you posted. Sounds like they are re- iterating everything Another is saying except more numerically and less cryptically.

By the way are you eating HAGGIS and downing malt whiskey for the Robbie Burns Stuporbowl Sunday....?Aye laddie.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:16 - ID#358318)
Apparently Drudge has been overwhelmed by traffic- it doesn't load here either- see ( Check HOT Forum )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:16 - ID#57232)
Dropping Canadian dollar
Bestobe, All: This is getting pretty close to home, isn't it? Down 5% in three months? Even if the Canadians let their dollar float, it will make purchases of American goods more expensive. This will cause imbalances in their economy, despite the export benefits - - which will aid large corporations selling Canadian goods. Now what Hashimoto is upset about is adversely affecting our local trading partners. What about Mexico?

I think the conclusion is obvious - - these fluctations in the US dollar are getting out of hand - - we should have had a gold- based world currency years ago ( not the dollar ) - - and now we ( the world ) are suffering from our folly. The SEAsia crisis might not have happened had they been linked to a gold- based currency, and not the dollar.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:17 - ID#269191)
You find perjury, subornation of perjury and a conspiracy to obstruct
justice by the highest elected offical in our country to be silly?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:18 - ID#254269)
Reasons 11 to 15 (of 100 reasons it's great to be a guy).

11. When channel surfing, you can skip over the soaps.
12. Your ass is never a factor in a job interview.
13. All your orgasms are honest- to- God real.
14. A beer gut does not make you invisible to the opposite sex.
15. Guys in hockey masks don't attack you.

More to come later.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:21 - ID#254269)
Impeachment question. If he is impeached or resigns (as some have
suggested here as another possibility ) , that means we get Al as President, does it mean we get Newt as V.P. ? And then who as
Speaker of the House ? Dick Armey ? What is the line of succession ?.

Dave in CO
(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:23 - ID#215211)
I felt sure you would have the inside info. The way- out conspiracy theory I heard on shortwave concerned someone named Rockefeller. Soon after my wife and I saw some old film of presidential candidates of the 60's and 70's and we were floored by the resemblance. No proof whatsoever, just coincidence.

For the critics of Ziva: Don't discount even the farthest out out of theories. Remember that almost all theories about Clinton were ignored as right- wing conspiracy attacks until January 20, 1998. Another example is when Clinton admitted under oath last Saturday to a long term affair with Jennifer Flowers. Clinton's lies were accepted for 5+ years and the truth dismissed as right- wing conspiracy to dethrone him. Also heard a conspiracy theory that Sec. Albright was Jewish a week before she found out her own ancestry ( no anti- semitism here - almost married a beautiful Jewish girl. )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:24 - ID#246224)
@ Baba and those who wonder why this is such a big deal in the USA ..
There is at least a modicium of public moral persuation that PROMISCUITY by a married man is WRONG. That LYING is WRONG. That PERJURY is WRONG. That buying someone's silence is WRONG. One could argue that this is hypocritical, but actually most people in the US are faithful to their marriage vows, do not lie to the courts and escew bribery.

The simple fact here is that if you wanted to run for office and said "Oh, by the way, I chase women, lie through my teeth and pay people off." you would never see the light of day in elected an office.

Some here really do hate and at times I wonder if certain moral rantings are really just a cover for this hatrid. No one who really cares for others would gloat over this business because it strikes to close to home for us as a country as well as individually. It is a sad day for America when her leadership is not honorable and forthright. One might argue that it has never been so. But that arguement probably brings no joy to the one who proposes it. In fact there have been a few who have been more than we as a nation deserve to own ( Lincon is one who comes to mind ) .

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:24 - ID#252127)
Good company....tough business

Go for it. Prime Resources Group.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:34 - ID#246224)
Lincon = Abraham Lincoln
Eye cudn't spel rite tu sav mi lyf ! ! !

Dave in CO
(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:35 - ID#215211)
Agreement here on every point. Morality has to be restored no matter what the government- addicted people of this or other countries may say.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:35 - ID#298259)
I thought owning a Monkee's albumn was acceptable for a chick, don't worry though, my real passion is Jazz...Bob James' earlier stuff ( Tchdn, LckySvn ) got me hooked. I won't mention the word Monkee's again... Shades of Gray.

Enough, back to my "key" passion, watching the gold market and all those mining stocks I own...and reading what the Kitcoites have to say.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:37 - ID#246224)
Looks like a pendant in the DOW intra day ready to breakoutout at any moment.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:40 - ID#287207)
Allen ( USA ) : I understand that. But to expect more from a President than a baker is why it is silly. That you have a Head of State and Chief politian in the same person is tragic as we see now. Our recent PM Trudeau was "seeing" Barbara Streisand ( sp ) and nobody cared. The country wasn't put on trial for it. That is a big difference from what we see on CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:43 - ID#36965)
Joke of the morn for gamblers and worse
It looks like Clinton is laying book that he won't be trapped by the latest snare. Here's a little story in that vein.

There is a story about a certain bookmaker who was making a long trip by
car when towards nightfall he happened upon an inn which had a most
unusual name, The Even Steven. Since it was located in the middle of a
desolate stretch of country, and he didn't know how much farther the next
place would be, he decided to stop there for the night, and satisfy his
curiosity about the name at the same time.

"It's very simple, really," the proprietor explained. "You see, my name is Steven Even. So I just decided to turn it around and call this The Even Steven. I thought if might get a few folks puzzled enough to stop and ask questions, and sometimes it does." "That's a pretty smart way to use the luck of a name," said the bookie appreciatively. "I bet it brings you a lot of business." "It hasn't brought me so much luck," he said. "The folks who stop here don't stay long. There's not much gaiety around here, as you could see. In fact, there's not another soul lives closer than thirty miles away, whichever way you go. Makes it pretty lonely for me, a widower. And worse still for my daughters. Three of the loveliest girls you ever set eyes on, should have their pick of boy friends. But, they are getting so frustrated they're about to do anything for a man."

The bookie made sympathetic noises, and listened to more in the same vein
until hunger obliged him to change the subject to that of food. An excellent home- cooked dinner was served to him by a gorgeous blonde who
introduced herself as Blanche Even; and when he was surfeited she still
kept pressing him to ask for anything else he wanted. Finally, she said,
"Would you like me to sit and talk to you for a while?" "Thank you," he
said politely, "but I've had a long day and I feel like closing the book."

He went to his room and had just started to undress when there was a
knock at the door and an absolutely breath- taking brunette came in. "I'm
Carmen Even," she said. "I just wanted to see if you'd got everything you
want." "I think so, thank you," he said pleasantly. "I do a lot of traveling, so I pack very systematically."

When he had finally convinced her and got rid of her, he climbed in
between the sheets and was preparing to read himself to sleep over the
Racing Form when the door opened again to admit an utterly stupefying
redhead in a negligee to end all negligees. "I'm Ginger Even," she
announced. "I wanted to be sure your bed was comfortable." "It is," he
assured her. "I hope you're not just being tactful," she insisted. "May I try it myself?" "If you must," said the bookie primly. "I will get out while you do it."

When she had gone, he settled down with a sigh of relief and was about to
put out the light at last when the door burst open once more and the
proprietor himself stomped in, glowing with indignation. "What's the
matter with you," he roared. "I got to listen all night to my daughters
moaning an' wailing, the most luscious gals in this county, because they all
try to show you hospitality an' you won't give one of 'em a tumble. Ain't
us Evens good enough for you?" "I'm sorry," said the transient. "But I told you when I registered I'm a professional bookmaker. I only lay Odds."

Good ol' boy
(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:45 - ID#26362)
Someone is reputed to have said "If the avreage person's sex life were made public, it would horrify the world." Polititions, by their very nature, are agressive, self cententered creatures who require continual affirmations that they are powerful people. Sexual conquests are just part of the game. I doubt that there are many of us who would lke to have their sexual history investigated and exposed to the world. Clinton is not the first US president to be exposed for having affairs. In recent times, Roosevelt, Kennedy and Eisenhower were all exposed for having affairs, but not nutil after they were dead.

I think it wrong for the press to intestigate and publish in this area. I am not a Clinton fan, but I would imagine that there are many, good competent men who will decide to enter politics becausse they do not run the risk of having their private sex lives investigate and exposed to their family and loved ones, let alone the world. It is getting to be like a "nanny" problem. I do not want to see any preachers, not that they are necessarily so pure, in the White House. Give me a tough SOB like Nixon any day with all his shortcomings.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:47 - ID#20748)
Srom Thurmond. See Aurophile, 07:56.

Spud Master
(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:48 - ID#273112)
@Selby & silly Canadian statements
"But to expect more from a President than a baker is why it is silly."

No it isn't. The President of the USA is held to the HIGHEST standards.

"That you have a Head of State and Chief politian in the same person is tragic as we see now."

No it isn't. We have a public official, alleged to have commited a crime. If guilty, he will suffer the appropriate Federal punishment.

"Our recent PM Trudeau was "seeing" Barbara Streisand ( sp ) and nobody cared."

Bill Clinton is a married man. I guess you ignore little things like that. If memory serves, your Trudeau was/is a bachelor. Not that it makes lechery ( sp? ) any less offensive.

"The country wasn't put on trial for it."

Neither will the USA; it will be Bill Clinton who is put on trial.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:48 - ID#339274)
FWIW THe 22nd ,top of cycle gave a sell .

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:54 - ID#287207)
The President of the USA is held to the HIGHEST standards
That is silly.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:58 - ID#26669)
Selby you may be right!
But then I think not. What if it were your daughter or sister ( or wife for that matter ) ? The basic Moseic code of conduct upon which Western ( Jewish, Islamic and Christian ) civilization is based equates adultery with murder with theft and condemns all as wrong. Some of us believe that basic rules for living should be observed by consensual adults and those who do not consent to observe the basic rules should be set outside of the protection of consensual society.

All: On a different tack. What is happening to Durban Deep?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 13:59 - ID#364147)
@ NOT a happy camper .....with my near worthless Can. R.E. $'s
I regret investing 90,000+ U.S. dollars in Canadian real estate six years ago!!...Are 'they' going to do anything to defend 'their' currency or will just another committee be formed....Ottawa: Hello...hello...anyone home?...hello...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:00 - ID#364147)
@ NOT a happy camper .....with my near worthless Can. R.E. $'s
I regret investing 90,000+ U.S. dollars in Canadian real estate six years ago!!...Are 'they' going to do anything to defend 'their' currency or will just another committee be formed....Ottawa: Hello...hello...anyone home?...hello...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:01 - ID#334174)
@Canadian Spokesperson
Selby does not represent Canada/Canadian people anymore than this
Canadian does. I am not silly ( well maybe sometimes ) . Do u represent

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:02 - ID#364147)
Monica SUKS-------------------------

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:10 - ID#251268)
No one cares?
What you do might be your own business,but if it's wrong and you get caught repeatedly,insist somebody is out to get you,then your trying to make a fool out of me.Do it once,shame on you,do it twice shame on me.

Good ol' boy
(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:12 - ID#26362)
Someone pull the plug on gold?
It appears to be dropping like a rock!

Spud Master
(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:13 - ID#273112)
My appologies to those Canadians I unfairly tarred with the label "silly" - there are, of course, non- silly Canadians.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:13 - ID#287207)
223: cool out man it is possible to have different view on the same topic. I bekieve that all employees of the US are adults and free to make a decison without parental approval. Its Hillary's problem. As Caper says I'm expressing my opinion on a non event that is going "Hollywood". Lots of entertainment. But if Bill gets the knife who runs the US- - more silliness. Most countries have plans to handle this situation that don't have to do with putting a "pitcher of warm spit" in at the top. Its a cartoon 223.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:16 - ID#246224)
Ted, Ted, Ted ! ! !
You sold for C$160,000. That's US$110,000 at .689 rate. You got your money back.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:18 - ID#252127)
Talk is about mining company selling into short covering

Check yahoo

Spud Master
(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:25 - ID#273112)
Selby, is, of course, correct -
the President of the USA should not be held to the highest standards. Let's have neo- nazi skin heads, serial killers and horse molesters as future Presidents.

Standards don't matter.
Honesty doesn't matter.
Truth doesn't matter.
Abusing a young woman doesn't matter.
Ruining her life for one's momentary sexual gratification doesn't matter.

I respect you, man. Is this the best Canada can offer?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:26 - ID#252127)

Thanks for the articles and keeping me focused. Sick of that Clinton crap, although some of the takes had me in stiches.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:27 - ID#28585)
Next week's State of the Union Address will engender nothing but cynicism and a spate of one liners for comedians.

Normally, after the SU address, the stock market spikes upward. However, just as the January Effect has proven to be non- existent, the latest Presidential scandal should preclude the SU address from having any positive effect on the markets. In fact, one might expect the exact opposite effect. Clinton's credibility level hovers around zero right now.

The only solution is to provide a distraction to the American public...maybe a war? Of course, in such an eventuality, the net effect on the Wall Street may also prove disastrous.

On the other hand, a war would send Gold through the roof, accelerated by the gold short squeeze it creates.

Anybody shorting gold in this environment is categorically a lunatic.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:29 - ID#28585)
Next week's State of the Union Address will engender nothing but cynicism and a spate of one liners for comedians.

Normally, after the SU address, the stock market spikes upward. However, just as the January Effect has proven to be non- existent, the latest Presidential scandal should preclude the SU address from having any positive effect on the markets. In fact, one might expect the exact opposite effect. Clinton's credibility level hovers around zero right now.

The only solution is to provide a distraction to the American public...maybe a war? Of course, in such an eventuality, the net effect on Wall Street may also prove disastrous.

On the other hand, a war would send Gold through the roof, accelerated by the gold short squeeze it creates.

Anybody shorting gold in this environment is categorically a lunatic.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:31 - ID#227290)
Gold & the Dollar Down
To all interested:

As I wrote last night, with the downward turnaround in Asian equities, gold is now following suit. We had a very strong rise last week, then two and a half days of a weak rise since Monday. A downturn was almost guaranteed.

We have still not moved above the high in the late December move of $297.50. So we'll now have to hope that gold does not fall below low of $278.50 made Jan. 12.

Also, the dollar peaked Jan. 7. It has been consolidating, but now the breakout of the congestion has been to the downside. Still, though, it hasn't fallen enough to proclaim a bear market is in force. We need to see a close below the close of Dec. 31, @ 99.69.

The dollar broached that level earlier today, but is currently a tad above it. Things don't look good for the dollar, but nothing definitive has occurred yet.

Stay tuned,

The Preacher

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:32 - ID#287207)
Potato masher: Its too bad Mother Teresa isn't available to replace the people's choice. Of course you never know what might be found if an industry appeared looking into her background.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:35 - ID#364147)
Allen-Allen -Allen.....and settin the record straight
Should have been more precise...Spent 90,500 ( U.S. ) six years ago and have since put in 15,000 ( U.S. ) rebuilding most of the house as every corner ect. was cut cut in the original construction job...Sold @ 163,000 and subtract 11,500 ( can ) for brokers fee and closing costs...So the 'picture' ain't as rosy as it appears ( but what ) C if I can post cause as usual this site is very slooooooooooow...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:38 - ID#287207)
Spud Master: Don't stop now- - you are demonstrating my point.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:43 - ID#261157)
@JTF ...Re:Dropping Canadian dollar
Yes, I agree with you. Its pretty close. I live in Canada. I am not an expert, but see below, do you think, that people here are starting recognize the value of gold and PM?

Toronto Jan. 22, 1998:
TSE 300....................1:38PM.....6402.60 ......- 91.97.....- 1.42%
Communications & Media.....1:30PM....12967.89........+3.00.....+0.02%
Financial Services.........1:30PM.....7608.08......- 227.20.....- 2.90%
Gold& Precious etals........1:30PM.....6318.76.......+69.11.....+1.11% !!
Metals& Minerals............1:30PM.....3730.19.......+45.13.....+1.22% !!
Oil & Gas..................1:30PM.....6026.50......- 148.75.....- 2.41%
Real Estate & Constr.......1:30PM.....2795.07........- 9.42.....- 0.34%

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:48 - ID#364147) there a reason why it is virtually impossible to access---
this site,the majority of the time during the 'business day'??- - - it didn't used to be this way Bro!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:55 - ID#234311)
The seriousness of the charges
This point may have been made before, but it bears repeating in light of the last hour's posts. The charge against Clinton is not adultery, philandering, or immorality - - distasteful as those actions are, they are not ( unfortunately, IMO ) impeachable offenses.

Clinto is accused of lying under oath ( perjury ) , asking someone else to lie under oath ( suborning perjury ) , and withholding relevant information from investigators ( obstruction of justice ) . This is what brought down Richard M. Nixon, what negated Ronald Reagan's authority in his last two years in office, and I hope they barbecue Clinton's hindquarters because it's about freakin' time.

When the Democrats in the USA were honking and squawking about the "October Surprise", they claimed "the seriousness of the charges" mandated an investigation, even though the only evidence was a rumor. They practically crucified Clarence Thomas on the unsubstantiated and uncorroborated allegations of Anita Hill. Time for them to taste their own medicine.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 14:58 - ID#224149)
Ted - Pay you're I.P. in - - - - American dollars - - - - - That should resolve connect problems - - grin thing

(Thu Jan 22 1998 15:02 - ID#367380)
@Eastern Canada
Heaven forbid if the President of the US of A wasn't telling the truth!!

The only difference between politicians here and in the U.S is the acting is better south of the border!!

Isn't time for another war somewhere in the world , so the President can stick out his chest again. What will be the justification this time??

Dave in CO
(Thu Jan 22 1998 15:03 - ID#215211)
C'mon. Clinton is not a neo- Nazi or a skinhead although he obviously had sex with a few.

Clinton's Goldilocks economy is based ( IMHO ) on economic numbers which are lies as well, so the apologists here only want the charade to continue.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 15:05 - ID#246224)
TED, ma man, if it makes you feel any better ..
You basicly are a break even on this EXCEPT for the US$35,700 you forefitted in compounded interest at 5% per annum AND a loss to inflation of US$17,500 at 3% average inflation rate. But whose counting, eh???

The JOYS of home ownership. Are you sure there are no *extra* taxes applied to you since you are a foreigner???

You know, if we could just figure out how to avoid living expenses then most of us would be pretty well off!!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 15:10 - ID#298259) mining co. selling into short covering
What category/area at Yahoo?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 15:22 - ID#246224)
Break down of Pendant going to 7700
Ted, at least you didn't spent your money paying interest for 6 years on a mortgage ( with little principle repayment in that time frame ) . Now that SUQS

Spud Master
(Thu Jan 22 1998 15:27 - ID#273112)
My sympathy to Canada....
with credulous, easily led citizens like Selby, it is a small wonder that your country is a basket- case.

Since you so admire this noble piece- of- work called Clinton so greatly, I personally give you permission to take him as your new leader. Perhaps you even have a 21 year old daughter who can serve as intern to him?

talley ... ho?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 15:33 - ID#246224)
Looks like we will be having toasted Asia AGAIN tonight ..
and why is it I'm not hearing any more about DOW 10,000??? I'm I going deaf? Indonesia Rupiah to 20,000?

JIN - time to dig that fox hole, bro. TAKE COVER!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 15:47 - ID#254269)
@ NJ. (succession), I looked up Aurophiles 7.56 about Strom Thurmond and

the only problem is that if this deal with Clinton drags out for any length of time, old Strom may not be around. How old is the man ? 92 ? 93 ?
94 ? 95 ?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 15:55 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Don't you all forget who is 'investigating' this. Kenneth Starr, and we all know his track record! Therefore, I don't necessarily anticipate anything coming out of it, as usual. Besides, would someone better for US wind up in the main chair? Nope!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:00 - ID#254269)
Dow closed at 7727 (down 68 points or 0.87%), S & P 500 down 8.07, 30 year .

bond at 5.844% . Volume on NYSE at 632 million shares.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:03 - ID#287207)
Spud Master: Sorry I thought you might keep up with the discussion but I guess your man Clinton does truly represent you.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:03 - ID#432148)
Inflation/deflation...C V Myers in his book ,
ends with these words: "One thing is certain, you will see the collapse

of this inflation, and that will mean the end of the era you have known."

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:12 - ID#249147)
Purity+morality doesn't equal politics unfortunately

Please allow me to clarify that I abhore politicians exactly because they are unfortunately generally corrupt. Personally, I do not cheat on my wife, I do love my children, do not drink alcohol or eat meat and certainly don't smoke. I try not to lie but occasionally do, unfortunately. I am however, not a major ( or minor! ) world leader.

Our leaders will reflect and do reflect the spiritual evolution of the populus. We get what we collectively deserve.

If these allogations are true, one can only imagine that it is only the small tip of a large iceberg that is far worse than sexual misconduct with a young girl. I admire Lincoln by the way, but just as a side note, he contracted syphilus with another women and passed it to his own wife.

If the people want purity and justice, they should seek leaders of spiritual integrity not political power. These men tend to be killed or imprisoned by governments not put in power. Jesus Christ is an excellent example of this but I could name countless others including the Buddha, Muhamed, several Sufis, John the Babtist, St John, St Peter ...... it is endless.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:13 - ID#432148)
Special Drawing Rights...
Where are they now that we need them?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:17 - ID#35767)
As A Democrat
Getting rid of Clinton would be the best thing that could happen Nobody o make Republican MAI/Gatt and more NAFTAs look bi partisan. IMHO when he couldnt get Fast Track he lost his usefulness. Good ridance.
Clinton's downgrade ( at least ) is a big blow to the "free trade" crowd/ I love it.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:25 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 26.60

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:27 - ID#335190)
ROR @ 16:17
Your post suggests, your personal support for MAI/GATT and NAFTA expansion. Is that your position ? Have I mis- understood your comments ?
Thanks, if you will clarify.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:27 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .237

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:28 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 50.54

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:29 - ID#266105)
Politicians are the secular saints who keep the real ones
from killing each other.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:30 - ID#423274)
Posting ??
I am trying to post an excell file of the holdings summary for the ten best precious metals mutual funds.. . . having some difficulties. I use Internet Exp and not Netscape Nav. . .any suggestions?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:39 - ID#364147)
Poorboys...........................and the Canadian Dollar
Poorboys:Pretty soon my Canadian Tire money will be worth more than the 'Loonie' ( cynical grin thing ) ....Allen: DOW 10,000~~~~~~~~~

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:41 - ID#35767)
I am anti NAFTA et al and I believe Clinton gave the Republicans cover to push these programs as his support made it look "bi partisan". His denigration is actually a great loss to the Republican "free Trade" internationalist set. Even if Gore were to succeed the cloud now hovers.
Clinton' denigration is a great victory for TRUE economic progressives as the foil for economic elitists will either be out of office or so discredited that his "free Trade" MAI et al sales pitch will fail. Clinton's demise would be a victory for workers and a serious setback for the corporate elite.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:42 - ID#364147)
The 'grim' news on the Canadian Dollar

Dollar closes at lowest level since 1858

Bank of Canada appears reluctant
to defend currency by raising rates

Thursday, January 22, 1998
By Marian Stinson

The Canadian dollar ended trading yesterday at its lowest level since its creation in 1858, nine years
before Confederation.

The 140- year low - - 69.20 cents ( U.S. ) - - came despite buying efforts by the Bank of Canada to
steady its value.

The dollar was hammered by hints from senior deputy Bank of Canada governor Bernard Bonin
that interest rates may head lower because of turmoil in Asian markets.

"It could be less tightening or it could be more easing," he told reporters after a luncheon speech to
financial analysts in Montreal.

Such dismal days for the currency are a sharp departure from most of its history, when it traded
above 90 cents ( U.S. ) , and even above par with the U.S. dollar for brief periods, such as during the
U.S. Civil War when the United States abandoned the gold standard, and during the 1970s, until a
separatist government was first elected in Quebec.

The only other time the dollar has traded as low as its current level was in early 1986, when it fell as
low as 69.13 cents ( U.S. ) on Feb. 3, but edged up to end that day at 69.24 cents.

The dollar first appeared in 1858 when a decimal currency system was introduced in Upper and
Lower Canada to replace the mixture of coins and notes in circulation. After Confederation, the
dollar became the currency in the new territories of the Dominion.

From 1870 to the beginning of the First World War in 1914, the dollar traded at par with the U.S.
dollar, but depreciated sharply to 90 cents after the war and in the 1920s and during the Great

In 1940, it was pegged at 90.9 cents ( U.S. ) and was revalued at parity with the U.S. dollar in 1946.
In October of 1950 it moved above par, but weakened again to 92.50 cents in 1961 - - and
became known as the Diefenbuck - - when then prime minister John Diefenbaker was in conflict
with central bank governor James Coyne.

In hinting at lower interest rates, Mr. Bonin went a step further than did Bank of Canada Governor
Gordon Thiessen.
Mr. Thiessen said the economy is not growing fast enough to justify higher interest rates in the near

"There is no doubt that the events in Asia will dampen our earlier projections of output growth for
this year," Mr. Thiessen told a business audience in Kitchener, Ont., on Tuesday.

Last May, the central bank said it would start moving rates higher to avoid inflationary growth down
the road. Since June, the central bank has raised interest rates by 125 basis points, lifting its key rate
to 4.5 per cent. ( A basis point is 1/100th of a percentage point. )

Mr. Bonin said the central bank is "not uncomfortable" with the current level of monetary conditions,
which it measures through an index combining interest rates and the value of the dollar.

Since the Asian flu infected financial markets in the fall, the dollar has been falling against the U.S.
dollar as global investors poured their holdings into the U.S. market, which is viewed as the safest
haven in times of crisis. Market players have been holding out hope of an interest rate increase by
the Bank of Canada, making returns more attractive on Canadian assets.

"The Bank of Canada has indicated it's not going to defend the currency with interest- rate hikes,"
said Avery Shenfeld, an economist at investment dealer CIBC Wood Gundy in Toronto. The
market sees this as "the green light to take the currency lower, possibly as low as 68 cents."

A year ago, the dollar reached 74.80 cents in a burst of optimism that strong growth and declining
government deficits would make Canada a much sought- after market for global investors. However,
the bubble burst as improving government finances attracted buyers to Canadian bonds, driving
yields lower than in the U.S. market. Then when the Asian crisis erupted in the summer, international
investors shifted the capital south of the border.

"We're into uncharted territory," said Katherine Beattie, technical analyst with Standard and Poor's
MMS International in Toronto. The dollar has ended on a weak note for four consecutive days,
which shows the strength of the momentum in the market taking the currency lower.

"Right now there is no end in sight, and it could hit 68.50 cents before the selloff ends. The only
thing the bank can do to stop it is raise interest rates."

The currency has been battered for several days in overnight markets in Asia, because of continuing
weakness in those markets.

Despite its weakness against the robust U.S. dollar, it remains strong against most of its other
trading partners.

The Bank of Canada bought the currency at 69.20 cents late yesterday to moderate the slide.

"The market expects to see some action by the Bank of Canada to defend the currency - - not just
reserve intervention, but a rate hike," said Jeoffrey Hall, Canadian- market analyst with Technical
Data in Boston. "From Thiessen on down, it seems like the Bank of Canada will have nothing to do
with a rate hike. The bank isn't mincing words any more.

"Bonin said in no uncertain terms that the Bank is not positioning for tighter monetary policy," Mr.
Hall added.

"That caused the open season on the Canadian dollar and it was taken to a new historic low, with
force. The hell- or- high- water scenario doesn't promote market confidence in the Bank of Canada."

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(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:44 - ID#335190)
Selby, your take on Clinton, is the same as mine. Hell, what the hell would the USofA position be, had Clinton acted as Brian Mulroney.

Hell, if mulroney has keep himself busy, as Clinton has, Canada would have been much better off. Purchase the book "On The Take" by Stevie Cameron. Crime, Corruption and Greed in the Mulroney Years.

Yes, this is the guy associated to Barrick Gold, go figure eh!
Yes, Canada had the crime, but no sex. Only in Canada you say - What a pity ! Take Care.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:46 - ID#246224)
DOW 10k? NO! NO! NO! ...
Stampin' my feet and sputtering in rage at the very suggestion ( red faced, silly grimmace thing - animated ) . Ted, how could you do this to me. You were being SOOO good .. until now. Was it the $35,700 ?? What made you trun on me? ;- )

BBTomorrow, dudes. Gotta take my blood pressure meds and valium.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:48 - ID#341293)
Ted and Spud

Hey guys, what's wrong with a 50 cents Cdn dollar anyways. Actually it'll improve our exports dramatically, raise the prices of our Gold stocks as they collect American dollars and we'll still have lower interest rates than the Americans. The only thing we won't be able to purchase will be expensive ( relatively so ) American goods. Of course, that just might create a demand for Canadian goods as the costs would not grow in our local currency. So we get Quebec upset ... gee sorry but you ( separatists ) caused the fall in the first place .... so we don't buy as many imported goods .... so ? We get our exports going and we keep interest rates down. Sorry, but please don't feel sorry for us. You're the one's who are going to suffer with the coming unemployment, not us ( we're used to being un- employed ... just ask Ted ! ) . Enjoy ....


(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:51 - ID#364147)
Allen..........................and Valium..............and DOW 10,000
5 mg's.............or # 10's

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:53 - ID#269191)
Gore's V.P.
Gore would get to appoint the V.P. as did Ford when he
picked Nelson Rockefeller.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:53 - ID#364147)
Front.....................when yer converting 'Loonies' ta 'Bubba Bucks' alot is
WRONG with a 50 cent dollar....

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:55 - ID#364147)
Inhaling...................and Bubba Clintok
Hey,he doesn't screw minors or inhale~~~~~~~~~what's the problemO

Dave in CO
(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:55 - ID#215211)
I would like clarification on your prediction of gold $250 some time ago that has been brought up several times since then. From what I recall, though I admit to a very faulty memory, your prediction was phrased as a question something like, "Why not gold at $250?" To me, if it were a question, it was not a prediction. Did you give supporting reasons for gold at $250. Thanks.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:55 - ID#341261)
The Astrological Investor's "Stress Test" [13Dec97] addressed some
interesting events of today. Now I never put any stock in astrology and always felt it to be a bit off the wall, but this time they seemed to get it right for 22Jan98:

Chad Meek is stated as saying:

"the New Moon position for December 29, at 8 Capricorn, puts tangential pressure on a number of horoscope points related to the January 22nd aspect. These horoscope degrees, Chad points out, are especially notable in the charts of not only the NYSE, but the President and the nation as well. He sees astrological activity that may even be symbolic of illness or weakness for the Commander in Chief."

Somewhat creepy to read....

John Disney__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:57 - ID#24135)
PW Botha in Harmony with de Law
To All

Harmony's results are in now - An operating profit

but a loss of 0.30R/share after capex. Much better

than the prior quarter's loss of R1.08/share at a higher

gold price. Harmony have reduced manpower from 18800

workers in the september quarter to 11700 at the end

of the december quarter. The outlook for the current

quarter is promising - tons milled and gold output

will drop 20/25 % but costs will fall to $ 285/oz

or less.

To Mr Zadeek

I think your advisor whose name I have trouble with -

( sounds like sassifras ?? ) any way you know who- mixed

up Table Bay with Echo Bay. I think this man maybe was a

foreign flag south african double agent sent over to

lull NA mines into a false sense of well being as South

African Mines ( as part of grand Rothschild conspiracy )

take over the world. Gee - Im right in the middle

of this - how lucky can one man be ??

While on the subject of RSA, Look like PW Botha gets

his day in court tomorrow for refusing to show up at the

TRC meeting ( as I said he would - check my posts ) . ANC is

planning protest demonstrations - but then Madiba said

"pw botha issa nota abova de law" - so that's right- he's

in court- thats where they keep the law. Nats are asking

ANC to call off demos in interest of peace and

reconciliation, which puts them in position of either ( i )

backing down or ( 2 ) running risk of demo getting out of

control ( either way they look lousy ) .

Court is in George in the Western Cape. ANC position in

Cape very shaky anyway, and they are being manoevered by

Nats into making serious jerks of themselves. We will see

what cards PWB will play in court tomorrow. But you can

forget all about a revolution over this one ( unless PW

decides to toss firecrackers at the demonstraters or

some kind of sillybuggers which always possible ) . If

the ANC COULD spike news coverage ( like Governments can

in less developed countries ) they would do it in a flash.

If Hot day in George tomorrow - believe demonstrators

may wind up at the beach. We will see. Crunch day arrives


(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:57 - ID#287207)
Ted 6pak
Ted don't forget to get rid of the Candian Tire money before you bail out. I think I may have as much of it as the real stuff myself.

6pak. I believe we got rid of Mulrooney and all of his government in 1 election didn't we? Too bad it isnt seen as a solution elsewhere.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 16:58 - ID#410194)
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Fell 8,653 troy ounces to 442,237

Silver: Plunged 1,057,591 troy ounces to 107,468,636

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:00 - ID#356379)
Hecla Mining

Has anyone heard anything new regarding Hecla Mining ( HL on the NYSE ) ? They have lowered their cost of production substantially and should be reporting some decent earnings in a couple weeks with the run- up in silver despite the lower prices of gold bullion. Any info on this old dog?

A GoldTrader
(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:02 - ID#21455)
(Gold & the Dollar Down)
Thank you Preacher for your commentary, what concerns me is your

statement So we'll now have to hope that gold does not fall, do I

detect a bias to the bull side?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:02 - ID#93232)
@Ted....Space is the Final Frontier....
And I'm fixin' to join you there, brother. "when this ol' world starts gettin' you down...just leave it for awhile" One of my songwriting buds just called to see if I wanted to work on a song with him...I simply replied..."Hey, did Picasso co- write?" He's pissed all over.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:03 - ID#287207)
Dave in CO: That is how is raised the prediction- - humbly- - - the first time- - about 18 months ago. As I said a some length earlier I understood the average cost of production last year was an estimated 275 and added 25 for an over shoot. Why do you ask at this point?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:08 - ID#335190)
GOOD We agree. Maybe, Canadians will see the light, and also put a stop to the International Bankers rape, of Canada. Not likely, but one can hope eh!

These Trade Deals, are in fact, working against the best interests, of the Canadian worker/citizen. Yes, economic balance, is out of favour in Canada. But, as a Canadian, we are expected to believe, that what is good for Multi- National Corporations, is expected to be good, and positive, in the long run, for Canada.

Thanks, take care.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:12 - ID#93232)
I meant to say, "Did Picasso co- paint"...I'm out of it already... ( by the way I ripped that quote off from Roger Miller ) .

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:12 - ID#258427)
@HOW CAN silver be down ll cents
when COMEX silver was drawn down by over 1,000,000 ounces ... somebody is playing GAMES ... and I don't like it...Whew..glad to get that off my chest...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:14 - ID#287207)
6pak: Interesting point what is good for Multi- National Corporations, is expected to be good, and positive, in the long run, for Canada. Is the reverse also true?

Dave in CO
(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:14 - ID#215211)
Just curious. I remembered the question/prediction but not the supporting production costs. Thanks.

I'll ask/make my question/prediction now, "Why not gold $10,000?" ;^ )
My problem is that I'm always wrong.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:18 - ID#193348)
Ted...your canadian tire money is already worth more than your
canadian dollars....just take it to the store,they will give
you a screwdriver or spark plug for it....the canadian govt.
will just give you another piece of paper with ink on it.
( don't leave me here....take me with you...ah hell )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:19 - ID#287207)
Dave in CO: I got a lot of flak for the original prediction and a bit of patronizing from "wiser heads" some who only post elsewhere now - - at least without the same handle. Also got flak on the rationale as well but I guess you can't expect a lot of cheering making such predictions for the future. Love to see 10 000 or even 500 but I can't see any reason why it will happen soon.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:24 - ID#227290)
Yes. A Goldtrader. Yes
This is my greatest failing as a technician. I hope too much.

How about that U.S. dollar. Just when I thought it was on the ropes, it made a strong comeback this afternoon and finished down just one tick for the day. The greenback is pretty rough and tough right now. No bear yet.

As in gold, no bull yet.

The Preacher

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:25 - ID#266105)
Joke time-

The SS officers visit young Picasso's studio/flat
in coming in to occupy Paris, Picasso already a
budding name. Eyeing up the painting of a woman
on the wall from his earlier period, after drinking
it in awhile, the SS officer says, that's nice, did
you do that? Picasso: "No, you did."

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:29 - ID#280222)
house C$
TED: Just think of all the money you saved by not having that money tied up in Gold Stocks:^ ) ( during that period... )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:31 - ID#288295)
Silver inventories drop on 'down' days

Methinks I see a pattern emerging in the silver market - on days when the COMEX price of silver drops, the COMEX silver inventories fall substantially ( 1- 2% ) .

Looks like someone is accumulating silver in a big way, but only on 'down' days so they can't be taken to court for pushing the price up.

The following day, the price of silver bounces up. Watch for this tomorrow.

GOOOOOOOO Durban Deep!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:33 - ID#390249)
Indonesian sentiment
FWIW, the people we do biz with in Indonesia feel the current crisis there is being caused by the US and western banks who are waiting to step in and buy up banks and businesses there at rock bottom prices. They believe it's a conspiracy and no longer seem to feel Suharto is to blame. The anti- US sentiment is growing and Rubin last night stating that the strong US dollar is good for America and not the cause of the problems in Asia. I think this was callous. He needs a lesson in diplomacy.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:35 - ID#254269)
@ Silverbaron re your 17.31; how can someone do that ? I don't mean from a

legal point of view, but from a trading point of view ?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:37 - ID#41229)
Sorry I didn't reply sooner, have been spending too much time at Kitco as of late and getting behind in my work.

The reason I feel that the followers of Perot was mislead lead is in the Individual and not his Ideas. I will be the first to tell you that I voted for him in 92, which inturn gave us Clinton. The reason I voted for him is I thought he was not of the establishment, and He would not fall into the trap of oweing people favors for campain promises. He had money to run on his own. ( Campain funding major problem within or election system IMNHO. ) I even went as for as contributing to "United we stand" ( I think that is the name of the group, we get so many flyers from different group and orgs. hard to keep up. ) watched all of his specials, with charts and graphs showing how time is short to avoid economic callaspe. This fell in line with my thinking and obviously many others.

To say the least the movement gained alot of momentum and popularity, he became a real threat to the political establishment. Was he so nieve that this would go untested, that the establishment that was being challenged, very seriously I might add, would allow the people to tell the establishment what is good for the people, I think not. I think what scared them the most was this jelling of society.

Well then we heard that he was dropping out of the race, this man that had this vision, a vision that was seen by many and was growing on a daily bases. Here was this movement that was motivated by these common ideals, leaderless, and that would have been fine left at that. The movement was recognized and could not be dismissed. But out of the blue he's back. The people that were starting to look at this movement seriously before, then became skeptical. Who wants to back a person with a vision who backs out of it himself. He then went on and became the spoiler. The conservative votes out numbered the liberial votes in that election. Clinton was elected 40- 44% of the popular vote. The Electorial vote did not show this outcome. ( Very lopsided towards Clinton, Ziva????? ) It would have been very interesting if Perot would not have faultered and went on and got the popular vote, ( Which I think he would have. ) to see who the electorial would of chosen.

Notice in my explanation I did not go into the specifics of alligations, and motives of Perot and others. Many things came out as to why he dropped out, that He had made a deal with Clinton, He was part of establishment due to business deals with gov. blah blah blah!

I would sumbit that he would not reliquish control of United We Stand when it appeared he was not to be the chosen to represent the movement in 96 election. Also that Clinton became this new Democrat, a more conservitive one in the campain.

To anybody that doesn't think U.S. is conservative, I would suggest you not watch what is on the boob tube and do some real research, What comes across the airways and movies does not accurately portray the real Americans, as I'm finding out what is portrayed to us Americans of the people of other nations due not represent the true humanity of those nations.

One thing I learn as I grow older, Government, who's ever it might be, works on dividing the people, wether its people within its borders or out. Because of this the necessity of controlling Gov. becomes a reality to keep a level playing field. I think if you could get group of elders together from all over the world, make so they each could speak the same langauge ( with no accents ) , also so they could not see each others features, or skin pigmentation, and held a discussions on morale and every day beliefs ( leaving religion out, another tool for govs. ) , they would find alot of common ground. I say elders because they through experience relise the sham. They are more likely not to be conditioned by
the everyday bombardment of disinformation. They also are morelikely to look past the emotional implications and look at the heart of the matter.

I must stop here, starting to ramble way past question that was asked, I could go on for hours on this, one must keep in mind that what I have said is of my opinion, therefore it doesn't make it right or it doesn't make it wrong, it depends on how YOU see it.

HAGGIS- I knew you were a gent. {:+ )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:37 - ID#93232)
All I have on the walls of my office are Picasso and Miro prints...I just stare at them and wonder ( wander too ) . Abstract...I'm attracted to the required participation.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:41 - ID#227238)
Droolin' over DROOY.
John Disney:

DROOY was, indeedy, a solid performer again today. In fact all of the SA stocks were lookin' mighty fine as they have for the past week or so. While of course, the NA's were again being taught the next lesson in the continuing game of drop the soap.

Dumped the very last of Pecker Peter's Piss Poor mining co., this AM and added to DROOY ( should have waited a bit for a little pull back ) and started a new position in Harmony.

Whaddya figger on Western Areas? Having gotten whacked from to 8 to 4 ( ADR ) awhile back it has been totally dormant.

Psilver Psyched
(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:41 - ID#216217)
Or are they active and driving it down with paper trades, so that physical can be bought cheaper on that same day. Next day, they unwind paper and restore market to "correct" supply and demand level.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:54 - ID#254269)
(Perot) refer, thanks for your 17.37. I was just curious as to your comment last
night. I pretty much agree with your 17.37. Perot had a lot of pluses going for him in early "92 and then blew it when he withdrew. I would guess that a LOT of people were behind him initially and if he had stayed in, I think he would have taken it. . In retrospect, I think he probably was naive about the opposition he would encounter.
On a similar topic, it seems to me that there was a Billionaire in Italy who
did a similar "thing" about the same time ( i.e. went over the established
parties straight to the people via television ) .
I think that is one of the things that has the "established parties" worried in that someone with money can buy TV time and get their message out to the population . Now that we have the internet, it is only getting worse
for the "establishment". Whoever controls the forms of communication,
can direct the mesage as we have seen.

On another matter, I can relate to spending too much time on Kitco
I think I'm also guilty of that one. .

(Thu Jan 22 1998 17:57 - ID#288295)
Psilver Psyched and Avanlon

Beats me !! I'm not that familiar with the inner workings of COMEX.

But taking physical silver delivery while ( same party or someone else ) is bidding the paper silver price down sounds plausible...Got any other ideas?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:00 - ID#254269)
@ refer; My 17.54 post. If you can stand just one more comment about this

and I think that this is very true and I was aware of this back in 92
when Perot ran. The US Government is an 18th century institution in a
21st century world. What I mean by that, is that technology has changed so much in recent years that there is much more opportunity for citizen
input as opposed to the 18th century when delegates were sent to
Congress to represent them .
Another example of this was the affirmative vote in California where
some 4 million people voted for change and one Federal judge
squashed it. The Government and legal system are about 200 years behind.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:02 - ID#252150)
At least if Clinton is impeached soon he won't have to preside over the collapse of the U.S. economy. Besides, with his debts over 3 mil & climbing, he can no longer afford to be President.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:03 - ID#301318)
just FYI
CNN Money Line will have Miton Freidman on at 7E/6C.

Dave in CO
(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:04 - ID#215211)
I supported Perot enthusiastically in '92 until he dropped out. His prediction of turmoil for the country in '97 if Clinton were reelected looks pretty accurate so far and he only missed by about 3 weeks. We're in desperate need of an alternative to the Republocrats, but obviously the growing voting bloc ( gov. workers + Soc. Sec. recipients + welfare + foodstamps +... ) will never vote to reduce the easy money they get from a dwindling base of taxpayers. To me it looks hopeless so I'm in PM's.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:12 - ID#401460)
Ford picked Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller
Will Al Gore pick Jay Rockefeller?
Liberal or Conservative please do not be blind as to who is in control.

The Rothschilds Senator Nelson Aldrich's, the sponsor of the Federal Reserve bill, daughter married John D. Rockefeller.

Psilver Psyched
(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:18 - ID#216217)
If one looks at the longer term trend of COMEX silver drawdown, there is an inflection point as Mr. Armstrong contends. So, has someone made a conscious decision to accumulate physical? I think the answer is an obvious yes. Based upon the history of attempted squeezes and market cornering in silver, and the subsequent "bad outcome" for the perpetrator ( s ) , I would find it strange for someone to place large sums of money at risk to play any similar "illegal" leverage driven paper game. Everybody knows silver is the most manipulated of the PM markets right? If the present accumulator is not illegally manipulating, then why did he start phyical accumulation when COMEX had about 160 million ounces left? Would it had not been better to wait longer? Would one not have gotten more price rise per million ounces "accumulated" later in the game. After all, the trend was already his friend. Does the accumulator already know that world supplies are much tighter than most believe?

I sure am glad you asked me for only my thoughts and not answers! ( Grin thing ) .

(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:23 - ID#254269)
More Clinton stuff;

(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:25 - ID#280222)
OJOJ tastes great! GOLDEN Liquid today...
EB: Did you Ebba ....change your mind...about OJ...leaving me behind....OOOH OOOH OJ...just sing it to me...CHA CHING CHA CHING... ( thank you cyberfriends, a clink of glass to EB and DA for their encouragement ) and now...for the encore...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:31 - ID#210114)
Judy Shelton
I read with interest Judy Shelton's article advocating a return to a Bretton Woods style agreement for monetary stability.

I agree with her. I think business need certainty in order to provide good investment decisions. BUT............

Unlike goldbugs I do not see this as a return to the true gold standard. This is a GOLD EXCHANGE STANDARD. Also I would like to see a return to this arangement not because I distrust governments, but I have no faith in the markets to determine the value of currencies. They work on emotion, not fundamentals. The ridiculous gyrations of the currency markets seldom reflect any logical reasoning.

Haggis was right to observe that you would need a Sh** load of gold. It would probably have to be valued at US$500. Perhaps even more. Even then it would have to be continually revalued so as not to get out of kilter with the real world. After all that is what happened in 1971. Gold was so undervalued that Nixon gave up Bretton Woods. Too many dollars, not enough gold.

So although I thinks its a good idea, I can't see it happening.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:35 - ID#376309)
comex stocks
Let's talk of this bogus Silver stock situation.

COMEX stocks for
gold - 442,237 Oz
silver - 107,468,636 Oz

there are 100 oz per gold contract so that means there are 4,422 contracts of gold in the warehouse

there are 5,000 oz per silver contract so that means there are 21,493 contracts worth of silver in the warehouse.

the open interest in silver is about 90,000 and for gold about 180,000. So if the open interest in gold is TWICE that of silver and tehre is FOUR times more silver contracts than gold what is the big deal about silver!!!

Let's now review historical information!!!!
At the peak in 1980 Gold stocks at COMEX hit a record of 5,099,098 Oz!
At the peak in 1980 silver stocks hit a peak of ONLY 87,132,826 Oz!!!


THIS IS THE TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave in CO
(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:45 - ID#215211)
@James - Clinton's debts
Let him declare bankruptcy like so many others in his Goldilocks
economy. ;^ )

Bart Kitner (Kitco)
(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:46 - ID#26395)
New Netiquette
IN CASE nobody's noticed...silver lease rates have tripled in the past two weeks. There is a significant backwardation in the silver market meaning that if anyone out there is holding a silver position which they want to maintain now would be a good time to take advantage. Sell your silver today, buy it back in the future at a guaranteed lower price.

One might argue that this post is completely unrelated to White House sex scandals but I disagree. I'm sure Hillary must own some sterling flatware that they use when discussing the case at the supper table.

NEW NETIQUETTE RULE in effect..So you don't have to go find it, here it is: "Don't use the group as a medium for promoting websites in which you have an interest. Place a listing instead in our "Web Resource Links" section. It's free."

To anyone who's been doing this, you know who you are...thanks for your cooperation in keeping Kitco postings commercial free.

I'm posting some unsolicited email I recently received from somebody who charges money to promote you on the internet. Discussion groups are targeted as places where they will go to do their promotional work. The letter is in its entirety and I've highlighted the parts about how they use discussion groups. The names are unchanged but in order to avoid promoting their company on this discussion group I've changed the email address.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:48 - ID#252127)
Frustrated...Sorry I didn't get more specific

Try industry, heavy industry, mining& metals, then type in silver.......Better yet, if it works.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:50 - ID#280222)

(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:51 - ID#339320)

For all you "doubting Thomas':

" Shortly after the gold window was closed in August 1971, OPEC called an emergency meeting with U.S. and other nations' finance ministers in Beirut. The result of the meeting was the Beirut Resolution titled XXI. 122. It called for adjustments to OPEC's crude oil pricing whenever the dollar had been devalued ( against gold, obviously ) .....The reason this resolution was passed within weeks after the dollar was no longer backed by gold should be obvious."

THAT, Ladies and Gentlemen, is your definitive link between gold and oil, the link that ANOTHER has been telling everyone about. With this tidbit of information, EVERYTHING else that ANOTHER has said falls perfectly in place.
Wake up all you doubters, and use your brain a little.
ANOTHER has given you insights that probably would not have been discovered until it was too late...... and a few pathetic souls even went out of their way to insult and jeer him.
I say get your heads out of your arses, and look around.
And hope that our friendly Chinaman decides to post again.

Psilver Psyched
(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:56 - ID#216217)
glenn@COMEX stocks
Glenn you ask "What is the big deal about silver?"...
Your points are well made and I agree with them. For me personally, the big deal with silver is that I have less probability of being a victim of CB political whim and fancy by being a silver investor than a gold investor. If gold rises, silver will track. Silver investors will do OK.

On the other hand, if gold is supply- flooded from CB lending or selling silver will not necessarily follow. Look at the price performance in silver vs gold since July.

In summary, better odds with silver my friend.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 18:57 - ID#93130)
Silver Stocks
GLENN: Thanks for the comments on Silver vis a vie Gold stocks - it is indeed something to consider.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:03 - ID#41229)
Are all of your reserve assets in physical, or backed by physical? If so what did you come up with as the best way possible, to cover assets concerning the sequence of events that may unfold? Would appreciate a reply.

Thanks in advance

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:03 - ID#288295)
Psilver Psyched

I don't have any hard evidence to back this up, but I think that the silver corner is building, but very slowly.....don't want to spook the markets too early, before the pieces are in place.

If WORLD ( not just COMEX ) commercial stockpiles available for purchase are only 2 to 3 times the COMEX stocks, then these big players know that they can capture the market for ( only ) a couple billion US$ before the END GAME is visible to almost everyone. This is big money to you and I, but nothing in the grand scheme of international finance.

Follow George Soros; if he is interested in silver ( Apex ) , so should all of us be.

P.S. Can you direct me to historical COMEX silver stock data? I only have charts from GNL of world commercial stockpiles.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:04 - ID#376309)
Gold vs Silver
If Gold stays at it current price eventually there will be a major and drastic reduction in gold production! If silver stays at it's current price companies can produce silver for an indefinite period! The three largest holders of gold stocks in the world are the US, Germany and France. To my knowledge Germany and France have not sold any gold during the past twenty years and the US has only sold very small quantities.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:06 - ID#28594)
Zhu Rongji made an unequivocal statement: China will NOT resort to methods that would mean a devalua

In the traditionally enigmatic style, the world has been told what China will not do. What MIGHT China do?

1. How best to reconcile with a wayward offspring? Perhaps to let them learn the error of their ways by letting them experience the consequence of their actions; for that is a lesson that tends to be learned at a deep- veined level.

2. There are two wayward offspring, one of whom has returned home to live, but still insists on pursuing old wayward habits. This offspring may prove an example to all. Painful to see ones offspring suffer difficulties, but the pain will be a lead crucible in which the magic of Reconciliation and Harmony will be forged.

3. And the second wayward offspring will observe and learn and return home too!

4. The HongKong Dollar will be de- pegged. China will watch. Perhaps throw a billion or two to the Credit Monster to demonstrate the Caring Concern of a Parent. Eventually, the HongKong dollar will cease to exist. One government, one Working system.

5. January 29 begins the Year of the Tiger.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:07 - ID#35767)
First in 1980 the manipulators were active in the FUTURES mkt. TODAY it is the PHYSICAL mkt that is comong down. The HUNTS didnt take the physical stuff. If silver inventories are near 1980 levels silver should be much higher. Gold is different as the supply is not ALL actually consumed. THe lease rayes speak the TRUTH/highest in history. IF THERE IS A LAWSUIT THE DEFENDANT IS OBVIOUSLY UNINTIMIDATED!!. Fact the game is turning against the real manipulators and they dont like this LEGAL squeeze. Let them short while lease rates rise and inventories shrink. What till we get within 30 days of first notice day and the non manipulated CASH mkt takes over/ SALUTE!!

Before Dec Contract the manipulators could only suppress silver until the end of OCT which would be equivalent to end of Jan now. Inventories and lease rates were rising then as now but the situation now is much more extreme. Thus, the bogus lawsuit cries/ Ya gotta luv it!!! Shame on them for wanting the coourts to interfere when the natural cash mkt takes over. My advice CALL THE IMF!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:12 - ID#153102)
Political Maturity & Who Might Be President
The people of the State of Colorado had an amendment to their State Constitution stuck down in federal court.
The people of the State of California have an initiative delayed and in federal court that will perhaps be struck down.
The people of several States imposed term limits after long and arduous efforts only to have term limits by the Sates struck down by the Supreme Court.
This is the short list. How long will it be before these people fire their lawyers and read the Constituion and the law for themselves ? How long will it take them to find out that States have no rights in the Constitution. States have powers. And together, they have all of the power because they are the creation of the people from who all sovereignty comes in American law. When you do not understand a thing, it is frustrating to try to get it to do what you want. A child will break the uncooperative thing he does not understand or stamp his foot or complain. An adult will study it until with knowledge he can make it do his will. When the people of the several States work together through their respective State Legislatures, they can control the federal government by controlling the Senate and start to make the Constitution do their will. And by further cooperative exercise of the States power in the Constitution all grievances can be redressed.

But first they must stop being the dependant wards of lawyers and begin standing as self- reliant, independent men and women.

If Gore succeeds Clinton and is not Agnewed out as I surmised earlier and as I still believe is likely to happen, Rockefeller is a good candidate to be the new face. Now, go read the 25th Amendment to find out how Rockefeller will succeed Gore.

No person on earth has more self- interest in saving the paper palace than the Rockefeller in the Senate.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:16 - ID#26669)
Good insight, Dave. My reasons for PM's investing are similar. One doesn't need to have global famine or war or catastrophe to create a bull market in them while making chaos in traditional forms of investment. All it takes is having to live in a country which changes the rules to prevent accumulation of excessive wealth by the middle class.

IMHO the US is in the rising phase of a period of catastrophic wealth redistribution. What are the estimates now for the total percentage of wealth paid in taxes for middle management and skilled labour types? Isn't taxation rate approaching 70% counting federal, state and local income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, taxes on the goods distribution system and hidden payroll taxes?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:16 - ID#401460)
Dave in CO (@James - Clinton's debts)
I would think that, by now, Clinton has a nice account in some Asian or Swiss Bank; or maybe on some Off Shore Island. He probably has a job waitng for him at Tyson Chicken.

I wouldn't feel sorry for him, he chose to screw around on his Wife and The United States of America.

Tar and Feather the Jerk!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:18 - ID#401460)


(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:19 - ID#252127)

They've been manipulating the precious metals markets for such a long time, that if they and Clinton went up for Sainthood. Clinton would come out smelling like a rose.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:20 - ID#35767)
At current prices Silver will enter it 10th year in a row of deficit. At current rates of production the above ground supply will be completely consumed within two years. IF I WERE A PAPER SHORT I WOULD RUMOR LEGAL ACTION TOO. We are still waiting for the defendant to be named/ Whats the old saying from the Wendy's commercial: WHERES THE BEEF!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:21 - ID#288295)

In 1980, WORLD commercial stockpile of silver ( not just COMEX ) was approximately 950 million oz according to Gold Newsletter ( Sep 97 ) , not counting the remainder of the US strategic silver reserve ( which is now essentially gone ) .

COMEX stocks at that time represented a small fraction of the total.

Not so, now. COMEX represents something like 1/2 or 1/3 of WORLD commercial stocks.

In comparisons of gold vs. silver, consider just how much money it would take to buy ALL the identifiable stockpiles of both metals: The 200- 300 million oz of silver, or the Bo- zillion ounces of Central Bank gold holdings plus COMEX and London stocks.

No contest.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:23 - ID#286230)
Canadian Federal deficit
it was announced tonight that the Federal Gov is in a surplus position with regard to the current budget.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:26 - ID#35767)
His statement that this would be a great time to lease silver at these high rates and buy at lower prices speaks volumes.....because it is not happening!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:27 - ID#254269)
@ HighRise; Very interesting 18.12, especially the url link.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:31 - ID#426220)

Cmax ( ANOTHER/GOLD/OIL ) - "For all you "doubting Thomas'" -

CONGRATULATIONS Cmax, again you have hit the bulls eye as you did many, many months ago when you DISCOVERED FOR US ALL THE significance of LBMA operations. You are right on the money again!! In this regard may I recommend all read the series dealing with what ANOTHER has shared, startin with the last article first.

LBMA EXPOS: PART 10 ( November 10, 1997 ) A Collective- Mind Analysis Compiled by Red Baron

The Onion PARADOX peels yet another layer away from the eventual truth of the LONDON BULLION MARKETING ASSOCIATION... all prior analysis at the bottom of the webpage at Red Baron.

To read the report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

Dave in CO
(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:32 - ID#215211)
@HighRise, 223
I agreed with you on Sen. Jay ( AR- 15 ) Rockefeller as VP ( see my post at 02:18. ) Also I found a reference to Sen. Fulbright's help to Slick's evasion of the draft:

223: Thanks. I really appreciate your posts.

Psilver Psyched
(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:32 - ID#216217)
Glenn, you accurately point out "If Gold stays at it current price eventually there will be a major and drastic reduction in gold production!"

Yes, and then 11 years from now, there will still be 2 years of reserves remaining in above ground supply. ( There are presently 13 years of available supply already above ground ) . That is exactly where silver is today!

Please, don't get me wrong, I'm a goldbug too. Just trying to get the cards on the table. Go gold

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:34 - ID#288295)

Sure, the silver miners could procuce and make money at this silver price.....

The problem is, only 15- 20% of the total silver used COMES from SILVER MINING !!

The remainder of silver produced is a byproduct from copper, zinc, gold, lead mining. Nobody is gonna mine more of those things just because their 1 or 2% by- product ( silver ) doubled in price......

If there is a world slowdown, this 80- 85% stream of silver will dry up proportionately, and tend to eliminate any silver surplus that would accrue due to decreased economic/industrial activity.

Nothing in this world is a sure thing, but silver ( 1- 2 years from now ) comes as close to a win/win situation as you are likely to find, anywhere.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:35 - ID#270235)
There are 950 million oz. of gold in the offical reserves. The U.S.
controls 220 million oz. At $300 per oz it would take $285 billion
to buy it all. That's not much when you consider the hedge funds
alone have $150 billion in capital.

Psilver Psyched
(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:41 - ID#216217)
I have not found a good site for precise data on COMEX silver. Perhaps someone can help. I have some historical charts in paper form that came from CPM; A paper graph presented in "Silver - A Brighter Gleam than Gold" by Scotia Capital Markets and my own recodings of recent inventory reportings. Someday I have to pull it all together/post.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:42 - ID#153102)
Market Manipulation
"Jack ( ROR ) ID#252127:
They've been manipulating the precious metals markets for such a long
time, that if they and Clinton went up for Sainthood. Clinton would come
out smelling like a rose."

Yes, indeedy. Before gold was taken at $20.67 per oz in greenbacks in 1933, certain insiders moved bullion out of the warehouses in the United States. Then when FDR repriced gold to $35.00 per oz in greenbacks in 1934, they moved it back.

Besides, the shells and the pea game played with warehouses and stocks reporting, these commodity exchanges are completely subject to the whims of the commissars.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:44 - ID#270235)
You're right about Shelton's suggestion. However, we were on the
gold exchange standard in 1929. Only a full return to the classic
gold standard and the elimination of fractional reserve banking will
solve the world's monetary problems. The gold exchange standard permits
the continued ability of the monetary authorities to inflate the supply
of money and credit and artifically lower interest rates below what
would obtain in a free market for loans. This results in the malinvestment which causes the bust part of the boom- bust cycle.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:45 - ID#401460)
$5 swing in Gold price in just a few hours, we are right back where we started. One might think something is rigged with such moves - Nah! They are just shorting evertime Gold gets a buck or two higher than the last high.

Gets Old Doesn't it?

And our Great leader:
"Only Clinton could devert attention from one sex scandal with another."
"Just thihk, Al Gore is only one orgasm away from the presidency!" Jay Leno last night.

"His closest friends are saying that he will not servive this" NBC

It is beginning to look as if Clinton will have to resign quickly with Gore taking over appointing Rockefeller ( Chase Bank ) as VP. They have to preserve the Union at all cost. Especially under the present economic crisis. They will not let this drag out, they will ask for his resignation.

Just like the 70's give it Time, Gold will be back.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:47 - ID#285392)
Would you please explain your comment "What till we get within 30 days of the first notice day and the non manipulated CASH mkt takes over/ SALUTE" I take this to mean that you expect silver to rise substantially and that those that are shorting it will be squeezed?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:50 - ID#288295)

Let's say, then...

$285 billion to buy all the gold, $2 billion to buy all the silver.

Which do you suppose will get bought up first?

Carpe argentum!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:53 - ID#364147)
Here comes da Judge(gulp)---non-gold post(scroll on by if offended)
Just got off the phone after an hour + a half long conversation with the judge's wife ( the new owners of our house here in Cape Breton ) and ONE of the things she said was that they called her husband the "hanging judge" ( gulp ) ....not that I have anything ta hide....mind you...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:53 - ID#257136)
As with a butcher, candlestick maker or any other tradesman, I would cease trading with a Baker whom I knew to be a moral degenerate.
Just informed two ( 2 ) different "automotive Specialists" of my complete distaste for Liars and thieves, as well as sneaks and cheats.
That was just this week.
I do not appreciate the poor, limited ( morally ) specimen we have had foisted upon us as prez.
In all my dealings with people, when the choice is mine, I steer clear of those of clintonian stripe as I steer clear of those smaller creatures of the black fur coat with the white stripe down the spine.
A man with no honor will cheat on his spouse.
He will also sneak, lie, steal and cheat anyone else from whom he is not trying to curry immediate favor.
Consider me to be one of the U.S. citizens who is pleased and proud to be:


(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:57 - ID#376309)
I seem to have created quite a stir. But that seems just fine on a calm night like tonight.

I will admit that the silver lease rates are bullish and should not be over- looked. If the lease rates stay this high for a few weeks high silver prices may be here to stay ( or maybe even higher prices ) . As far as COMEX stocks I stand by my comments that they are still very high. Conclusion - If you want to post silver lease rates every night instead of COMEX inventories to support your bullish case then it would be justified.

As far as Gold is concerned. It would be much less than 10 plus years before inventories were depleted. First off there is only 34,000 tons of gold in central banks. 8,000 tons has been sold already as "GOLD LEASES". This basically means that this 8,000 could be sold tomorrow on paper without any disruption at all. Although more talk of CB sales would not be good. Now we are down to 26,000 tons. I could go on some more to prove how bad it can get real quit but I will conceed that we could stay at these levels for the rest of this year.

Perhaps I will do some research to argue the point better on Gold, but I still feel gold will out perform silver the next few years. And remember, just as CB have gold to sell this synocate MUST sell silver at some point in order to take profits!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 19:59 - ID#401460)
Dave Co
"Clinton requested Senator Fulbright and others to help him get into the ROTC unit at the University of Arkansas."

I had heard that the Republican, Wintrop Rockefeller put him in the ROTC program. And that a democrat from Cleveland, home of Rockefeller's Standard Oil, completed the Draft dodge after the ROTC deferment did not work.

Thanks for the Bookmark.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:00 - ID#270235)
Silver vs. gold.
I think it is incorrect to value gold the way one would value silver
or any other commodity for that matter. The reason is that gold is
a monetary commodity whereas silver is now primarily an industrial
metal ( although there is probably still some monetary demand ) . Therefore
in valuing silver it would be proper to evaluate it purely as one
would any other industrial commodity. In order to make an estimate of
the future value of gold, one must estimate the future supply, the future
commodity demand for gold ( primarily jewelery ) and the future monetary
demand for gold. Gold bears therefore argue that we have achieved
a permanent plateau of confidence in paper currencies and therefore
there is no longer a need for gold as a monetary commodity. They therefore place a zero value for gold as money and argue that based
purely on its commodity demand gold is in severe oversupply. The bull
case is that supply is falling from mine output and the commodity demand
for gold is increasing. Further, fiat money is inherently unstable
and the public will inevitably loose confidence in its value. Therefore
the future monetary demand for gold will increase greatly and gold
is in short supply.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:02 - ID#390249)
Maybe this is why gold dropped today.
The attached article states that the mass purchases of gold in India is putting downward pressure on the rupee - and that measures should be taken to enlighten the population that they are buying dead investments. Another ominous development a2437LBY766reulb- 19980122& qt= % 2Bgold& lk= ip- noframes& col= NX& kt= A& ak= allnews

Barb Hughes
(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:03 - ID#20783)
"BART'S POST of 18:46"


All of it!!!!!!!!

TO: ALL...Please read Bart's 18:46 Post!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:03 - ID#376309)
AU vs AG
YEA DEJ!!! That's what I ment to say!

Go GOld!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:05 - ID#153102)
Silver vs Gold
Our thinking is muddled. The domestic US dollar is a measure of silver of certain fineness and has been since 1789.

Just because it says dollar on a Federal Reserve Note does that make it a dollar ? If I printed the word Zebra on you house, would that make it a zebra ?

Silver and gold are both potentially monetary metals. At present neither of them is a monetary metal.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:07 - ID#288295)

All in good sport, my friend.

I'm glad to have your input; what we all really care about is that both go up, not which one does the best. I also own gold and gold mining shares, as well as silver and the silver miners, so I have an interest in both.

As we all know, neither of these markets is very transparent, and good statistics are very hard to come by.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:07 - ID#410194)
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Fell 8,653 troy ounces to 442,237

Silver: Plunged 1,057,591 troy ounces to 107,468,636 - A new 13 year low

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:08 - ID#372344)
@ Clinton.....under microscope...musings
No question Clinton is now is deep political doodoo and his presidency even his ability to sell anything is in serious trouble regardless of
truth of allegations, since same is not beyond the relm of past behavior
for Clinton. , We can forget about attacks against Saddam, etc....
since all will say he is just diverting attention from his personal dilema etc.. Weak USA = Weal US$ Paralized Presidency or we'd like to see him bleed slowly was statement made by a Rep. Congressman,....too early to say if Rep really want to impeach, IMHO they would prefer a badly wounded Clinton, than a fresh Gore and Tipper.... Apparently this girl luwersky also claimed an affair a few years ago with a college professor, which turned out to be a lie, and she herself is quoted in said tapes to say she had lied....All this can only mean more bad news for
Wall Street....

I noticed the PPT was in there again today up to theirs knees in it...
still the market closed down 65 points... look for further drops...
PPT did manage to lower Gold price today... they are really petrified of
that psychological 300 number...

SDRer- very intersting China scenario

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:09 - ID#364147)
1N8-----------Studio.R---------------Savage.........................................Hi Selby
1N8: I'm MADly converting all my Canadian Dollars into Canadian Tire money cause as you said,at least ya can buy a SCREWdriver with it...Studio.R: Nothin gets me down as through maturity ( ? ) I've learned to go with the God damn flow.....Savage: The Canadian dollar is startin ta resemble my mother fu#$% ^& gold stock,so don't know about yer theory...Back to my charts~~~~~~~~~~lookin fer questions that baffle me..
(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:11 - ID#432137)
attaching a chart of gold index vs. rsi
this is a risk for me
not that i haven't made such as charts as these,
for 2 decades & more, by hand....
so here i will attempt to "attach" "

with some patient, quiet review, it might be interpreted, that gold is ready to follow the indexes lead, ans d higher, much higher.

I wil attempt the attachment now; if it doesnot 'take', feeel free to contact me at, and ask for the GldIndxRsi.bmp

ask for


(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:11 - ID#410194)
@ Bart
Congratulations Bart for a great decision concerning the new Netiquette.

And hat off to you and your team ( ? ) for this valuable site where the world meets!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:11 - ID#41229)
All: Silver or Gold
I posted this question sometime ago, I was curious on the overall sentimate on which metal would out perform?

History dictates silver sense it appreciated more in the rise from $5 to over $50, where gold rose from $170 to $845. Will silver still have a higher ratio of return this time around?

Currently palladium is outperforming all since last year.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:12 - ID#286230)
a.j. Before this slips further off topic I have said on several occasions that having the chief politician and the Head of state as the same guy is a problem. The situation with Clinton seems to be a current example. As far as I know: Roosevelt, Ike, Kennedy, possibly Ronnie and now maybe Bill are guilty. Jimmy only in his heart. Then I have heard about Cleveland, Lincoln, Jefferson but wasn't around to take the measure of these guys..

Silly isn't doing the situation justice but it gives the appropriate flavour to a chronic re occurring situation.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:13 - ID#252127)
If Bill Clinton resigns

And AL Gore was taken ill with spotted owl disease wouldn't the Secretary of State become La Presidenta?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:16 - ID#335190)
Selby @ 17:14
" Is the reverse also true " Is it possible, we will never truly know ?

Consider, I believe we all are "mushrooms", as I have indicated here often.

Consider, the fight against inflation. Well,in 1998, has it not been destroyed. What advantage has been realized by the worker/citizen. I suggest nothing.There is no plan to advance the living standards of the worker/citizen, not now, not ever.

Example: Unemployment - Rather than being something painful and destructive that most people deeply dislike, unemployment is transformed into a lifestyle of choice. The problem then becomes one of determining how low benefit levels should be set in order to create a work incentive, how many pellets of food are placed in front of the rat to get him to respond in the way we want. We are tinkering with nothing more than the human greed impulse.

All this is very useful to anti- inflation crusaders, since their goal often requires them to take actions that result in massive job losses. Their task will be easier to sell if unemployment is presented as a deliberate choice rather than something that is foisted on unwilling victims.

They ( anti- inflation fighters- BANKERS ) use an elaborate vocabulary that makes unemployment and the Bank's ( Bank of Canada ) role in causing it sound benign and merely technical. They talk about the " sacrifice ratio" by which they refer to the amount of suffering people will experience when the Bank induces a recession to control inflation.

This ratio is measured as a proportion of GDP, making it all sound very scientific, rather than painful and soul- destroying. Also, instead of talking about "unemployment", which has over- tones of people being thrown out of work and families suffering, they speak instead of the "slack in labour markets"

According to Bank theory, a large pool of unemployed people will reduce any inflationary pressure on prices, since there will be fewer people with money to buy goods. All these unemployed people will also serve as a constant, scary reminder to those lucky ones who remain employed: don't be too demanding, accept a pay cut if necessary, remember that there are many people out there who would love to have your job.

Technical Paper No 54 :The importance unemployment plays in changing people's expectations about inflation. " unemployment acts as a signal to individuals to change their expectations about future wage and salary increases" If workers fail to pay attention to these signals by moderating their wage demands, it will be necessary to increase the level of unemployment further, to drive the message home harder.

In this light, it is easy to see why the business community is so keen to reduce unemployment insurance and welfare benefits. These social systems are support mechanisms that prevent workers from feeling too desperate in face of mounting unemployment; they offer a net underneath frightened workers. The Bank reference, to these social programs as " labour market rigidities"

Yes, in Central Banking circle, this view on unemployment prevails, this is basic fare for this elite group of central bankers.

Yes, Be Quiet....Consume....and Die
Yes, Bankers can hire half the working class, to kill the other half.
Yes, you are expected to destroy your son or daughter, if they expect to have your job.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:16 - ID#153102)
"Date: Thu Jan 22 1998 20:02
Neophyte ( Maybe this is why gold dropped today. ) ID#390249:
The attached article states that the mass purchases of gold in India is
putting downward pressure on the rupee - and that measures should be
taken to enlighten the population that they are buying dead investments.
Another ominous development"

When people have gold, socialist governments condemn it as hoarding. FDR justified his making of gold coins illegal as a measure necessary to discourage and control hoarding which is bad for the "economy" because it takes wealth out of circulation that could be better used, according to them, in investment ( i.e. in paper ) . The socialist song is the same old tune with very few changes in the words from refrain to refrain.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:21 - ID#286230)
6pak: I agree. Canadian inflation is now .7% and it hasn't done me any good.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:25 - ID#401460)
Jack (If Bill Clinton resigns)

And AL Gore was taken ill with spotted owl disease wouldn't the Secretary of State become La Presidenta?

Not if she wasn't born in the USA - ie. Kissinger.

"The President appointed Larry Lawrence after fabrication of his records - Lawrence's Wife had an affair with Clinton. Was Lawrence using the affair to blackmail Clinton for the ambassadorship appointment?" CNBC

"Clinton is a SEX addict!" CNBC


(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:31 - ID#287277)
TZADEAK, Thanks!
It is difficult to 'step- out' of one's western mind- set, but- - remembering
last year's Davos survey- - one is compelled to look East in this
crisis. China will pull the west to gold ( the west kicking and screaming )
because China views the paper blizzard as a 1000- year debt storm, the repercussions of which lead to chaos and instability. China's goals are
radically differ from those of the West. We do well to contemplate her strategy.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:32 - ID#286199)
I believe that the succession of the presidency goes to Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House thence to Strom Thurmon President Pro Tem of the Senate before SecState gets in. That lineup ought to shake you up or break you up!

Y'all yankees turn up the heat, my oil companies aren't doing so well!

Barb Hughes
(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:32 - ID#20783)
DEC 99 COMEX SILVER at 1% Discount to MAR 98...
Looks like about 10- 12% PLAY!!!
Huh Bart

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:32 - ID#401460)
CNBC !!!!!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:34 - ID#260205)
Korean Gold Dumping? A Price Damper? Investment Opportunity?
The recent Korean gold collection campaign has been successful in

accumulating a few hundred tons of the shiny stuff in very short order.

Although these folks were forthright in announcing the success of this

program, their intentions of what they would do with their accumulation

was not as clear.

At the outset of the program, the government announced the tonnage

would be sold outright with the proceeds primarily being used to shore

up the ( then ) falling won. Then later when they have the bullion in

hand they suggest the better part may be retained in their vaults

as a metal reserve. I strongly believe they intentionally used this

double- talk to work towards their advantage. Allow me to explain

towards what end.

Having stated they would keep their newly- accumulated gold within the

country, combined with their reassurance to overhaul their financial

practices, has provided relative stability to their local currency.

But in reality, they remain cash hungry and are in fact selling the bulk

of the metal onto the market in a desperate move to pay off their

maturing debts that weren't covered under the recent bank credit

extensions ( or perhaps just to help meet the interest payments on

their extended debts. ) If true, it is indeed an ingenious ploy - well

done gentlemen! Make the world think your keeping the stuff ( provides

won stability ) while actually using the stuff to generate cold hard

cash ( to pay off interest on the bills. ) At least it's bought Korea

some precious extra time to recover.

In terms of the impact on the POG in the short- term ( for the next

4- 6 weeks out - or longer if the program continues at its current

success rate ) their bullion divestment program will act as a damper

to prevent any significant upward price swings. IMHO they are selling

gold onto the market in smaller chunks, taking advantage of upward

price moves without impacting the price in a sustained negative

fashion. A great way to ensure a stable cash flow. During this period,

I look forward to capitalizing on gold stock price movements as the

shiny stuff continues to oscillate within the 275- 300 price range.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:39 - ID#65207)
Here is the best post for today
Quote from 2BRO2B:

Date: Thu Jan 22 1998 16:29

2BR02B? ( @baba ) ID#266105:

Politicians are the secular saints who keep the real ones

from killing each other.

...And Saddam will get all the extra time he realise the thing!

Saddly the press in a frenzy orgasm too,right now.

ted butler__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:40 - ID#317184)
Bart's trade

Bart - while I am most appreciative and addicted to your site, I am a bit concerned about your advice of 18:46. You obviously believe, as I'm sure RJ and Glenn would agree, that the current silver tightness is somehow contrived or created. You all may be right, but then again, you may be wrong. If you are right, and this is an artificial tightness, by advising someone to sell their cash silver and buy a more deferred position, the best that can be hoped for is the pick up of a few cents. However, if this is a genuine shortage ( I'm in that camp ) , the deferred position is subject to default. It doesn't seem a prudent risk/reward trade- off. I know I beat this to death, but this is exactly what the CB's have been doing for years by leasing. Hope you don't feel I'm ungrateful for all your efforts.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:46 - ID#288295)

The gold/silver price ratio is very cyclical, varying from something like 15 to 100; it was at 100 a few years ago and has now fallen to about 50 over several years.

( A short- term chart of this is at Goldsheet on the web )

Many people think the ratio will continue to fall until it reaches 25 or 30, and perhaps even lower than this, if an all- out flight to precious metals were to occur. ( We hope! )

A gold/silver ratio of 30 would imply that silver could go to US$ 10/oz, even if gold goes nowhere. If gold goes to $500 ( a 67% increase ) , which I think is a real possibility, silver would be at $16 ( a 167% increase ) , a 2.5 to 1 advantage for silver from here. ( rough numbers )

One thing that perhaps drives this ratio, is the fact that since silver is the "poor- man's" gold - almost anyone can afford to buy a little, whereas gold is out of the reach of many people.

I personally think that the supply- demand fundamentals and low stockpile overhang for silver vs. those for gold are compelling in favor of silver, but whether history will repeat, we shall see.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:49 - ID#20136)
Happy to note all pm's in the green. Please note lately gold does quite well in Asia. gold 290.60 unchg Platinium 385 +8.20
Silver 5.81 +0.06 and good old Palladium 236 +2.25

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:49 - ID#252127)

Newt is said to be a rising star at the Trilateral Commission? Has anyone heard simular stories? Don't know about Strom.
What concerns me is that the worst conditions may congeal all at the same time, and we will get a dictator........a bit worst than what we have now.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:51 - ID#364147)
Strom Thurmon for President.................................
and then it'll be just like 'Camelot' again.......

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:53 - ID#372344)
@ Donald...
Your posts re Ratios Dow, Gold , AXU are greatly appreciated,
I wondered If it was possible for you to include daily with said ratios
all time highs and lows and change from previous day.
Just a suggestion. Again many thanks.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:54 - ID#364147)
Like Gerry Ford............I can do two things @ once----------------------like----------
Watch Seinfeld and work on those damn gold charts...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 20:58 - ID#286199)
The American people are an independent and frequently unruly lot and have shown themselves to be quite willing to disobey bad laws and tyrants. Pity the poor fool who tries to ride herd on this well- armed mob.

Here is the exact order of succession at this time:

The Vice- President is named successor by the 25th Amendment to the Constitution. After the V- P, Congress fixes the order of succession. The present law which governs the order is the Presidential Succession Act of 1947. To bring it close to home, here is the mandated order if the unthinkable were to happen: ( 1 ) Vice- President, Al Gore; ( 2 ) Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich; ( 3 ) President pro Tempore of the Senate, Strom Thurmond; ( 4 ) Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright is ineligible and would be skipped; ( 5 ) Secretary of the Treasury, Robert Rubin; ( 6 ) Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, ( 7 ) Attorney General, Janet Reno; ( 8 ) Secretary of the Interior, Bruce Babbit, ( 9 ) Secretary of Agriculture, Dan Glickman; ( 10 ) Secretary of Commerce, William Daley; ( 11 ) Secretary of Labor, Alexis Herman; ( 12 ) Secretary of Health and Human Services, Donna Shalala; ( 13 ) Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Andrew Cuomo; ( 14 ) Secretary of Transportation, Rodney
Slater; ( 15 ) Secretary of Energy, Federico Pena; ( 16 ) Secretary of Education, Richard Riley; ( 17 ) Secretary for Veterans' Affairs, Jesse Brown.

During the State of the Union address, all of the above are present except one poor cabinet member who gets sent somewhere else "just in case". This year SecAg Glickman gets to skip. So you Clancy fans who are planning to drive a 747 into the building, don't. You'll end up with a farmer for pres. Hey, that doesn't sound so bad....

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:05 - ID#193348)
selby...6pak....inflation dead?so we're told...
just got the registration for the wifes car ( up 10% ) natural gas and power
rates ( up6% ) 73% increase in c.p.p.over the next four years- - the truck I bought in '90 is up fifteen
grand and going up every year by kajillions.Sorta looks like the balanced
budget the feds are bragging about just shifted the extra charges on to
the citizenry in a more direct manner.Wonder how much a few point hike in
interest rates to protect the dollar would screw budget.Remember the loop
holes old crooked face said he was closing in tax law? Just one...deindexation in inc. tax alone collected over 20 billion extra in last four years ( pisses me off..but good....I quit...gonna take up drinking full time...wheres the vodka line?....rat hole

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:06 - ID#432298)
Markets overseas???????
Does anyone know how the stock markets in China and Japan are doing at this time? are they up or down and by how much? Gold is holding steady that's all I know.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:08 - ID#26793)
Monica Lewinsky
I was channel flicking between three different shows about the mess the president has on his hands. One item of interest that I had not heard before was that Ms. Lewinsky claimed, while in college, to have had an affair with one of her professors. Her claim was proved to be not true.

Barb Hughes
(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:12 - ID#20783)
@ted butler__A
This is the first time in our reconing- - -
That a holder of precious metals- - - in this
case silver- - - - - could accrue some real
interest on their long term holdings....

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:14 - ID#432298)
Overseas stock markets.....
Never mind, my ticker at my favorite stock market action web site is working now. The Hang Seng ( HSI ) is down 363, or - 3.93% . The Nikkei 225 is up 121, or +0.74% . Thanks anyway.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:19 - ID#401460)
Thanks for the Information.
Excellent post.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:22 - ID#401460)


Clinton has denied having the affair under oath.
Clinton has now admitted to having an affair with Jennifer Flowers.
Revlon paid money to both Hubble and the Intern,Monica, at Vernon Jordans request.
Janet Reno almost immediately authorized the tapes, therefore, there has to be a Case.

Clinton appointee, FBI director, Louis Free ( sp ) did the taping.
20 hours of tapes.

Potential Laws Broken.

Star now has access to everything in the White House.

Faces the following charges;
1. Tampering of witness.
2. Two counts of perjury
She will take the 5th Amendment Tomorrow. ( has been canceled ) *
She will accept immunity deal. SHE HAS NO CHOICE!
She will testify. She has to or go to jail for at least 10 years.
She is a big problem to the White House.

*News Flash: Deposition tomorrow has been postponed.
She has been offered partial immunity, she wants total immunity.
*Kenneth Star is at work.

This does not even take into consideration the Paula Jones Case, White Water Investigation and other legal actions against Clinton. Now Larry Lawrences wife is rumored to have had a sexual affair with Clinton.

Why was Vernon Jordan talking to Monica about her sex life anyway?
Why was a young, just another intern given so much attention by everyone?

A Constitutional Crisis may develop.
Can a sitting President be Prosecuted while in the White House?
State of the Union Message Tuesday?
Big Zipper to be placed on Mt. Rushmore.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:24 - ID#252127)

Not very encouraging prospects.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:24 - ID#26793)
I have historical background data on the Dow/Gold Ratio but not enough on the other two to do what you suggest. I will try to do it on every Friday and show the change for the week at least. In order to get the High- Low for the day I would be more work than possible. I don't have any minute by minute data. I wrote a little software program that gives me a chart on demand for any set of dates. I have daily info since July, monthly back to 1896 on the Dow and 1890 on a Dow substitute.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:25 - ID#372344)
@ US$ Ready to Crack?
US$ DOWN again tonite vs Yen, Mark etc..
The US$ Index Chart is ready to BRAKE!
The next few trading sessions will be very telling, If it breaks Gold
will be the winner, not coincidently at the same time as Clinton is
under attack, and the economy is ready to TANK?

ted butler__A
(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:27 - ID#317184)
Barb Hughes

It may look tempting, but it just might become a case of going from figuring the return on, to a worry about the return of.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:27 - ID#267276)
The problems that clinton is having will weaken the chances for the IMF to get anymore funds from the U.S. ( I hope ) .The IMF has somewhere between $20 and $30 billion in Gold, and added to all the hordes that the other central banks have the only thing that will give them instant credibility, and financial clout is $1500oz. GOLD !

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:33 - ID#267276)
I dont know if a sitting president can be prosecuted for these offenses. I do know that impeachment proceeding can take place and would prevail if these charges were deemed true.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:34 - ID#22451)
Highrise, How dare you call it a Conspiracy.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:41 - ID#25588)
Silver, Gold & SnP
This little correction in the Mar Silver should end soon, buy SIH8 under 5.50 with a stop under the recent lows at 5.38, obj. 7.30 - 7.40. If it's going to 5.50 it should happen in the next 5 trading days. I'm currently short from 5.815.
Feb. Gold should work its way up to at least 300 before a correction that may take it down to slight new lows. Mar SnP is working on the D wave or beginning of an E wave of a triangle from the Oct lows. When the E wave is complete the Dow will move to new highs.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:41 - ID#286230)
1in8: Yes I know inflation is funny concept. It means a bunch of items "officially" and we can all find lots of things that are going up that don't fit into the "official" definition. My heating costs are going to be about 2/3's of the usual, gasoline is now down, my taxes just dropped another 7% ( I believe ) , fruits and veggies are up since they are all imported. My inported car is now 2000 more than the same model I bought in 1992. These things I notice but how many are in the "official" inflation.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:42 - ID#227290)
TZADEAK* & the Dollar
TZADEAK*: I'm with you on the dollar. The close on Dec. 31 was 99.69. After a runup and peak on Jan. 7, the dollar index is now down to 99.71. A close at the end of this month below the Dec. 31 close will signal the end of the runup.

Also, notice that this runup faltered just 11 ticks shy of the runup last August. It looks like a "double top" is forming

The Preacher

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:45 - ID#267276)
Check out Larouch recent posting on EIR talks with Larouch at

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:45 - ID#288295)

USD Index maybe rolling over, but could be one more cycle left to go:

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:46 - ID#271238)
Dollars and sense

Wantto take a moment and thank all the posters and postettes for all the information gathered over the last few months. While I can add little or nothing I'm slowly starting to make sense of some of whats said. I have noticed that in some instances a bear market will make a final valiant thrust to the depths ( kinda reminds me of Clinton ) before rising to more reasonable areas. Could this be the case with the dollar ready to move ( ? ) FND, Clintons woes , and that Asian agenda all in the same week! GO GOLD.........soon

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:49 - ID#411259)
..... Eyes Only: The President of the United States .....

Bill -

Things are moving fast now and we don't have much time. The hog is in the tunnel and from here on out it's chainsaw politics and karate in the clinches. Make no mistake about it Willie, this whole thing could have Arkansas mosquitoes bingeing on Ex- President blood by summer. Time to get proactive; a short priority list:

1. Shut up. Let the crap fly and don't respond. Your bumbling last night smacked more of OJ than Nixon. Don't lock us into a defense. Say no more until your new attorney calls ( see 4 ) Business as usual, try to look presidential. No more of these photo ops like the one with Yasser Arafat this morning. I heard Yasser offered you some advice today, but "goats don't talk" is too late and too little, and is of no help at all once the goat has squealed. No, we need something stronger here, something bold. I've arranged a private screening of "Wag the Dog", maybe we can get some ideas there. Seems a bit tame now, though.

2. Send Al off somewhere on some fact- finding trip or some damn funeral, anything just get him outta' town. That little ferret is salivating already and would gladly squeeze off a small caliber bullet behind your left ear if you somehow managed to beat this rap. Gore is not one of us, never was. Call the secret service and have all Al's men switched. That will rattle him a bit, cost him some sleep. I'll arrange to have Tipper mugged, nothing too rough but Al will get the idea. This should buy us some time. We gotta keep an eye on Al now, he's on to the scent and in a rutting mood and he can smell those striped jammies with the Presidential Seal.

3. Lie to Hillary and let me know if she gets too uppity. I'll have Rocco sit with her awhile, he'll calm her down.

4. Prepare to meet your new defense team. Bennett is out, he's not a wartime cosiglieri and we need to get tactical now. We're bringing in Johnny Cochran on this one, and with the right retainer I think we can get Robert Bork for the constitutional side of things. We'll need to beef up the defense fund but I can filter a few mill in quietly using that cute little intern, what was her name? OH forget about that idea, never mind, I'll get the cash to you somehow.

5. We'll need to do some of our own depositions. Got a line on a warehouse down by the Potomac that is very isolated. I'll bring the Phenobarbital and pentathal, the polygraph, and the Tasers. We'll turn her story around. Once we're done with her, Starr will look like a fairy.

Time to hunker down and suffer the shelling, but we can win this one. I gotta go, Johnny just got here, we got work to do. We've already come up with a couple ideas on how we could play this. Johnny thinks we ought to center tthe defense on jury nullification, "If it doesn't twist, You must acquit", or some damn thing like that. Keep your mouth shut, stay calm, lay off the booze and I'll call you later.



(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:50 - ID#410198)

London Telegraph reporting Bundersbank hoarding gold worried about EU failure,thank you Lord, for a while I thought I was going crazy,the truth remains HE WHO HOLDS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:51 - ID#30116)
highrise @ 21:22
Thank you for stating the facts of the latest Clinton fiasco. This time it's about more than Slicks wet willy. If the charges have merit, oh my oh my. Keep an eye on Rubin. If he exits stage left, the show is over...

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:56 - ID#364147)
Panda......................................and ain't the Kennedys great
JFK Jr. for president has a nice ring to

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:57 - ID#283199)
Pangea goldfields
Does anybody have any oppinions on the future development of Pangea's gold projects and the direction of this stock in the post 300 era ?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:58 - ID#364147)
Good one bro

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:59 - ID#284255)
What's coming?
Swing chart updated.
The swing chart is having trouble keeping up with the current movements of the markets.
The internals of the markets keep telling a different story to the price.
To my eye there is going to be an explosive move very soon.
Hard to say in which direction.
Many indicators say down,
But the MF's and the boys want it higher.
The don't want to lose the best game in town.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 21:59 - ID#372344)
@ Preacher, Silverbaron....US$ Crack?
You all might want to look at this chart, to see what I mean.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:02 - ID#392328)
where did you read that would like to read it myself.......................


(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:04 - ID#30116)
Selby - - Clinton's latest travails has more to do with obstruction of justice and witness tampering than his passion for the 'wild thing'. If this proves out, and I mean IF, then all else is laid ( no pun intended ) open for investigation. How about that health care bunch back in the first term? Come to think of it, what about those 900+ FBI files that somehow wound up in the White House? And what do the Chinese know??? Those subpoenaed documents that mysteriously turned up in the First Families quarters after how long? With whose fingerprints on them ( hint: the other lawyer in the family )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:06 - ID#31868)
J. Taylor likes Pangea. You may be able to find info at his web site. I think it is

Hope that helps.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:12 - ID#30116)
Kennedy's NOT!

Tonights theme music - - Mike and The Mechanics with Silent Running, All I need Is A Miracle, You Are the One, A Call to Arms, and TAKEN IN.

Followed by Chris Rea featuring The Road To Hell ( Part I & II ) , You Must Be Evil, and Texas... May include "Tell Me There's a Heaven"

Opps, I didn't mean to give the White House music request list away.....

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:13 - ID#42371)
@ Barb Hughes
Barb explain your 'play'. please.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:15 - ID#42371)
Do you have an URL for that?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:18 - ID#392328)


(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:22 - ID#189273)
@Studio.R - Picasso notes
Good evening. Just got in after a long work day and noticed your earlier
posts re Picasso.

Yes, he did cooperative art. Not painting, but he had a close friend,
David Douglas Duncan, for whom he posed in all manner of places, with
his work, in his neighborhood, and in thematic groups of photos.

Marc Chagall also engaged in this king of multi- layer art, painting
while being photographed, with a friend, Izis Bidermanas. Also posed
all over his neighborhood, studio, etc.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:23 - ID#410198)
Sorry about that I was beside myself

Go to the International section ( ) if that does not work pull up a search engine,you should bookmark this paper,one of the only semi- conservative rags in England

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:26 - ID#364147)
Good musac

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:28 - ID#401460)
Thanks for the note:
"Through various means the true identity of the elitists who own our banks that own the central bank is hidden from our view."

I agree with much that was written.
I just don't think it is appropiate to call it a conspiracy, because that implies "a compsiracy theory" exist; And, to me it is not a theory anymore - it is Fact.

I use to call all of this a conspiracy, until I found out that the information is out there if one really searches for it. The problem is that no one will publish the information for the general public's consumption. They are probably fearful of their lives. And they do control the media.

The truth is, rich or poor, that most people don't really care until they feel pain.

But this type of control just filters down and through our entire society. It exist at all levels. We all have to report to someone for our existance. Whether you work an assembly line or own a bank. No matter whether you are a slave or a King. Some are closer to the top than others. There are a few in control of much but that exist where ever you look. Lately, I have been calling it "business as usual".

I have also been wondering who is at the top. When the buck stops were does it stop?
Who has absolute control of political and economic cycles; el ninos, earthquakes, disease and famine.

Where are John D., Hitler, Cheops, Alexander, Caesar, now? I find it very fasinating that one name that lives on is the name of a pauper - Jesus the Christ. Who does David Rockefeller report to?

Many, once reaching the top, realize wealth is not all; the importance of friends, family, and God loom very high on their list of priorities.

Our lives are very short.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:30 - ID#364147)
As much as I hate Clinton,I think this Monica Lewinsky thingy stinks ta high hell--
Did anyone watch NBC Nightly News where they reported that Monica's mother wrote a book in which she inSINuated that she slept with some famous dude...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...GOLD diggers perhaps....

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:30 - ID#341214)
APH: I was thinking about going long Mar silver at 5.62 but I'll sit on it a bit and hopefully all that weight will push it down a bit more. How was the trip to Florida? I always look forward to trips with the kids. The truth is I'm one of them.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:31 - ID#224149)
The President of Harpers magazine said today on CBC It's not a sex thing It's a extreme right wing plot by the Republican Party, an actual coo to take over the Government.Remember Star spent 30 million and was about to pack it in to his promised 1 million per year teaching job but was told to give it one more try.- - Away to find the media piranha .

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:32 - ID#364147) should(??) have----------------

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:33 - ID#93199)
Fidelity Select Gold Chart
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )

Don't like this Sharp spike. Time to take Profits?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:34 - ID#30116)
Ted - - Chris Rea's, "The Road To Hell", could be the goldbugs battle hymn. Although, "Texas", would be pretty good too... ( All from, "The Road To Hell" album ) .

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:39 - ID#30116)
I see we have something of a change in the trading pattern for gold. Gold now seems to go up in the Asian markets with some carry over in to europe, only to get hit in the U.S. markets.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:41 - ID#364147)
Panda.....on GOLD bugs battle bout---------------
I can't get no satisfaction.....can't get no~~~~~~~~~~

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:43 - ID#401460)


Robert is the MAN! He will not exit. IMHO
Goldman Sachs has to much at stake.
Chase Bank is one of their partners on Rockefeller Center, and most likely other Asian deals.

What is happening now is why Reno did not goafter Clinton & GORE for the illegal White House fund raising. They need Gore for the transition.

If they also go after Gore, as aresult of what they find in the Monica situation - well, wouldn't that be interesting. President Newt? Has to be better than the trash we have now.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:45 - ID#287207)
panda: We agree on this one. I don't defend Clinton. Don't care about him at all. I do think there is a problem when the values of a state are invested in the person of the chief politician. That is my point. If the most important single individual Head of State in the world is removed from office over the behaviour of just another elected politician then this is a problem. Most countries have 2 people at the top. One represents the current concerns of the day- - the CEO and the chief politican - - and one represents the values of the country. The US has both in one. As we see and have seen and may see - - it causes lots of unnecessary problems.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:48 - ID#401460)
London Telegraph reporting Bundersbank hoarding gold
worried about EU failure

Do you have more info or a html


(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:49 - ID#32078)
Todays market
Today's gold/ dollar action was highly unusual compared to the last 6 months. The dollar index is dropping and the long bond rate jumped .04% to 5.84+, yet gold dropped $2 and is still down. The price of gold held up until London closed and New York trashed it. Anyone have any ideas?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:51 - ID#20136)
Date: Thu Jan 22 1998 21:50

London Telegraph reporting Bundersbank hoarding gold worried about EU failure

Can you give the url or give some detailed information on this story?


(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:52 - ID#266105)
@TED spread
Just what the world needs, another comedian. I've always
liked this one- -

'Anybody can say I've got cancer and get a rise out
out of the crowd. But how many can do five minutes
of good standup comedy.'

- sick conservative comic PJ O'Rourke


(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:53 - ID#215379)
Today's market
My gut feeling is that Rubin stepped into the market today and sold a whole bunch of options....

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:53 - ID#401460)
Asian Bailout

``I'm a bit sick of the USA having to bail out all these countries,'' said Webb, who is 66 and served in the U.S. Air Force
during the Korean conflict. ``Let them hack it alone.''

"Webb was one of 1,007 Americans polled by Reuters this week about the crisis gripping Asia and whether the Clinton
administration should offer billions of dollars to support the International Monetary Fund and its bailouts in Asia."

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:54 - ID#398105)
1in8.................the lull before the storm...............

fiat currency.......low interest rates means currency devaluation.

Give this a read.......

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:56 - ID#35767)
TED @ Hates Clinton "but stinks to high heaven"

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:58 - ID#398105)
Maggie Thatcher for PRESIDENT............she is available.........

(Thu Jan 22 1998 22:59 - ID#30116)
Selby - - When I first heard the 'new' scandal break, I dismissed it as another side show. BUT, the problem comes in with the obstruction of justice and witness tampering inferences. Granted, any who would willingly engage in the ( personal ) dealings of this 'prez' are of suspected character, I guess turn- about is fair play in this game. After all, it takes one to know one ( regarding the latest female ) . I find the whole administration repugnant in their policies and actions. I guess I really don't care what happens to this presidency one way or another, be it impeachment, resignation, or retirement. I just wish they would all go away.... Although Jocelyn Elders was good for quit a few laughs....

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:00 - ID#284255)

Global Intelligence Update
Red Alert
January 23, 1998

Chinese Report Frames U.S. as Enemy

According to the Chinese News Agency Zhongguo Xinwen She, the China Strategy and Administration Research Society is about to publish its"1997- 1998 International Situational Analysis Report." The report is said
to contain three basic conclusions about the international situation in
1998. First, the report argues that United States and Japan are uniting to
contain China and that the "Japan- U.S. Cooperation Guidelines" published on
September 23 have moved Japan from a defensive to an "outward" orientation.
Second, the report concludes that the United States has used NATO expansion
to confine Russia, and that NATO expansion has become a Russian
"nightmare." Finally, the report argues that U.S. policy in Central Asia
is designed to "shoot three birds with one arrow." First, the United
States wants to weaken Russian influence in the region in order to prevent
a restoration of a Russian empire. Second, the United States wants to
block Islamic fundamentalism in Iran from spreading northwards. Finally,
the United States wants to encourage ethnic separatists in Xinjiang and
other Chinese provinces.

The report appears to be a dispassionate analysis of the global situation
from the Chinese perspective. As such it provides a fascinating and
revealing insight into Chinese thinking. Granting the Sino- centric view of
the world, the report does include those aspects of U.S. policy that are
most salient. From the Chinese perspective, they are being pressed on all
sides by enormous American power. What is most important is that they
don't see themselves as being alone in this. NATO expansion, U.S. policy
in Central Asia, and U.S. policies in the Pacific are viewed as part of a
single policy fabric, designed to contain, divide and tie down China and

The Chinese analysis is, in fact, not dissimilar to our own. Having broken
the Soviet Union, the primary American mission must logically be to prevent
its reemergence. NATO expansion and U.S. support for Central Asian
republics complement each other in pursuing this goal. Equally obvious is
the fact that the United States does not want to see China replace Russia
as a hegemonic Eurasian power. By strengthening Central Asian Republics,
supporting separatist rebels in Xinjiang, and using Japan as a sword and
shield in Northeast Asia, the United States achieves this goal as well.
The Chinese analysis of U.S. policy is logical and, on the whole,
reasonable. The United States is indifferent to what happens in Eurasia as
long as the land mass is not in danger of being dominated by any single
power, as was the case from 1945- 1991. The American policy must be to
block the reemergence of such a threat, by expanding its influence into the
power vacuum left by the fall of the Soviet Union, projecting covert power
into China's borderlands, and blocking Chinese maritime expansion in the

Implicit in this document is another aspect of China's geopolitical
analysis. They see China's interests and Russia's interests as being
identical. Both need to limit the expansion of U.S. influence into their
regional spheres of influence, but neither is powerful enough to do so
unilaterally. If both have identical interests but neither have the
ability to pursue those interests alone, one question remains: do Russia
and China allied have the ability to block U.S. power in the region?
Unless China is prepared to concede its situation to be hopeless, then it
is clear that they have concluded that an alliance with Russia is their
best policy option.

Equally intriguing is what the document is purported to say about Iran. If
one motivation of U.S. policy is to block Iran, then it follows that China
and Iran may have interests in common. Of course, Islamic fundamentalism
is an anathema to China, which is battling Moslem separatists in Xinjiang- -
whom they claim are supported by the United States. Nevertheless, China
and Iran may have interests in common, particularly if Iran was prepared to
withdraw all support from Moslems inside of China.

The problem, of course, is that Russia, or at least some factions in
Russia, continue to harbor pro- Western sentiments, for ideological or
financial reasons. We now expect Beijing to intensify its efforts to
persuade Russia to move into alliance with China. This will appall
Russia's liberals, an increasingly endangered species. It may well
resonate with the Communists, whom we expect will inevitably enter the
Russian government, if not dominate it. We also expect that China will
explore relations with Iran even more aggressively. At the very least,
Iran's position as one of the most ardently wooed countries in the world
will be strengthened by China's attentions.

This much can be said with certainty. China now regards the United States
as an enemy. Everywhere China looks, it sees U.S. strategic power
threatening its interests. As the old saying goes, China may be paranoid,
but even paranoids have enemies. Chinese and American interests have
diverged dramatically with the Asian economic crisis, the evaporation of
new investment in China, and the growing concern within China to preserve
the stability and integrity of the Beijing regime. Apart from strategic
analysis, China, like the rest of Asia, needs a malevolent enemy to explain
and justify its failures. This binds China to the rest of Asia- -
increasingly dependent on U.S. power and increasingly resentful of it.

Of course, Japan is an Asian power and Japan is increasingly dependent on
the United States and Japan will become increasingly resentful of the
United States, particularly when the U.S. presents the bill for saving the
Japanese economy. China's view of Japan as a pawn in the American game may
be the one part that has not been sufficiently thought out. After all, if
Japan is now strategically an outward looking power, then it follows that
Japan can look in several directions.


To receive free daily Global Intelligence Updates
or Computer Security Alerts, sign up on the web at, or send your name,
organization, position, mailing address, phone
number, and e- mail address to

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:01 - ID#57232)
Monicagate is headline news
All: Just tuned in to ABC TV. Peter Jennings interviewing DD Meyers, and George Stephanopoulous. The picture on the screen is a nite- time picture of the White House, indicating that everyone is still up, trying to decide what to say next. The drama unfolding ( for lack of a better word ) is comparable to the president having to make a decision that will effect the lives of millions of people - - the midnight oil is being burned. DD Meyers and G Stepanopoulous are telling PJ how hard it is to get the "truth" from the President with the layers of lawyers that surround him. The basic point they are making is that the complex web of words that must be created and maintained by the people that actually talk to the press don't really have access to the president. The president's inner circle consists of lawyers, who are not really responsible for informing the public about what it going on.

My point is what these people are saying is not really very complimentary at all if you read between the lines, and these are former key white house members. What they are very diplomatically saying is that the web of lies that has been built up over the years is unraveling.

I find all of this interesting because I do not understand what is different about the last two nights. My opinion of what the president has been doing for the last several years has not changed. But - - now the mainstream press is talking openly about the web of lies coming out of the Presidential office. This is catastrophe theory in action - - the tsunami has broken - - and nothing will be the same again.

I must admit that I am saddened that the Office of the President has been brought to this point in time, very much like the situation with President Nixon. But - - - I am proud that the American way of searching for the truth is still intact - - there is hope for us all after all.

Lets just get over this embarrassment quickly - - but I doubt it will be quick.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:01 - ID#284255)
Url to view 000626415657101& rtmo= LGNbydSd& atmo= 99999999& P4% 5FFOLLOW% 5FON= % 2F98% 2F1% 2F23% 2Fweuro23% 2Ehtml& pg= /et/98/1/23/weuro23.html
THE Bundesbank is hoarding massive amounts of gold while its value falls because of fears among the German public that the European single currency might falter or collapse.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:02 - ID#398105)
PRESIDENT GORE, it's got a ring to it, out of a horror movie.........

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:04 - ID#390249)
London Telegraph Bundesbank gold story
I finally got this story but had to register. You'll have to click on International and then register ( for free ) .

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:05 - ID#35767)
TED @ Clinton/Lowensky Stinks to high Heaven"
Ted you are a conservative and I think as such you would miss Clinton. He has been the best thing for the Corporate Elite in the history of the US. We will now start to hear how Ms. Lowensky is unstable to save Clinton for the right. Without Clinton the conservative movement has no foil for bi partisanship for its attack on the average person. Clinton has allowed the right to popularize monetary elitism. Without Clinton this folds. Clinton will eventually go but the elite dread it. Only the Christian right section of the conservative movement is anti- Clinton/ the rest really love him. He is a nightmare to progressives like myself I say sayanora or at least lets marginalize him. His agreement to lower the estate tax was unconcionable. I am an economic progressive and a social conservative.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:06 - ID#339212)
@ Haggis
The Gold Institute reported that the 1996 ( yes, 1996 - not a typo ) South African gold production of gold was 500 tons. Is that all or was this a mistake? Where the other 1500 tons come from? US 500 and Australia another 500 do not make 2000 or so tons. Any numbers on the split?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:06 - ID#410198)

London Telegraph ( ) WARNING: you have to go to the International page to get the story + sign in I know it's a pain but worth it besides you should bookmark it if you live in the Denver area I will feature this on my morning radio show morning show KHNC 1360 7- 10 MST

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:08 - ID#284255)
The article in question
Three central banks hoard gold in case of euro disaster
By Toby Helm, EU Correspondent, in Brussels
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Information on the German economy - Commerzbank
German Federal Ministry of Economics
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
City: CBI chief in EMU alert to Germans

THE Bundesbank is hoarding massive amounts of gold while its value falls because of fears among the German public that the European single currency might falter or collapse.

Both Italy and France are also hanging on to huge quantities of gold, partly because of worries about economic instability after the launch of monetary union next year. One extreme theory is that banks are keeping gold in case they need to support a new national currency if the euro fails.

Such concerns help to explain why Europe's "big three" central banks have been refusing to sell an ever- declining asset and may not hand over much of their gold as reserves to the future European Central Bank later this year, according to leading analysts.

They say central banks and governments do not want to send out signals that might alarm the public before the switch to the euro on Jan 1, 1999. One German expert on Bundesbank monetary policy, Ulrik Dennig of Hamburg's HWWA economic insitutute, an organisation part- funded by the German government, said: "In Germany people are not very sure about the monetary union. They need to know that their money is stable. That is psychologically important for them.

"Because of the need for stability it would be unwise for countries to be selling gold in the run up to monetary union or in its early stages. Once it has proved itself to be stable things might change."

German attachment to its vast store of 3,700 tons of gold stems in large part from the country's experience with racing inflation in the 1920s, when gold was a safe haven for investors.

Last year there was uproar in Germany when the government attempted to revalue the Bundesbank's gold reserves to bring its finances into line for single currency membership. This was seen by the German people as unwanted interference with the nation's assets by the government.

When the European Central Bank is formed this summer, it is expected to hold about 15 per cent of its reserves in gold, less than 1,000 tons. The rest will stay with national central banks.

Stephen Yorke, director of economic research at SBC Warburg in London, said that although many Europeans had an "emotional" attachment to gold, the real reason central banks were not selling despite gloomy predictions of gold's future value was that the modern gold- lending market allowed them to make a good return.

But he said an alternative view was that central banks were keeping it to provide backing for a new national currency should the euro break up.
22 January 1998: EU 'weakened by discord between Paris and Bonn'
19 January 1998: German funds 'subsidising' Euro bids
10 January 1998: Gold falls to lowest price since 1979
4 June 1997: Kohl forced into deal over gold
2 June 1997: German gold reserve fiasco gives Italians something to smile about
30 May 1997: Gold row hits Euro markets

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:10 - ID#30116)
Time to say good night... What channel are the Simpsons on? Why, all of them, tonight. :- ) )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:12 - ID#364147)
Get a Life~~~~~~~

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:12 - ID#22451)
The 10 rules for investing in todays market. ( IMHO )

1 ) Up is down.

2 ) Wrong is right.

3 ) Backward is forward.

4 ) Knowing to much is ignorence.

5 ) CNBC is the Sci- Fi Channel.

6 ) Alan Greenspan is Karl Marx.

7 ) Availability is scarcity.

8 ) Supply is infinity.

9 ) Demand is not wanted.

10 ) Gold is lead.

The above investment advice is not to considered as all inclusive or to be considered sensible by the management.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:15 - ID#248180)
@ "Three Central Banks Hoard Gold in case of Euor Disaster"
Robnoel - Great Scoop and an excellent post!! Agreed gold does need more positive articles like that one. Good On Yah Mate!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:15 - ID#252150)
"I would'nt feel sorry for him, he chose to screw around on his wife & the U.S. He deserves to be tar & feathered". I don't feel sorry for him, but if the same standards were applied to every politician/bureaucrat, starting with the senate & congress, there would'nt be enough tar & feathers in America.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:16 - ID#57232)
Germany Hoarding Gold
sharefin: Couldn't get in to see text, but this looks like the kind of fundamental news that indicates the end of the gold bear. This will not be lost on the gold shorts - - namely, that the end is near!

We just need to keep our powder dry! I wonder, do you think AG is doing the same in the USA? I would! And our AG is just as sharp as any of us gold bugs. The French are just as gold- buggish as the Germans so they certainly would not let the Germans hoard all this cheap gold.

I wouldn't be suprised to find that during the first quarter of 1998, there was net CB gold buying, not selling.

Of course, we could still be in a technical gold bear for some time - - but the next international crisis - - be it from the US Presidency, trouble in the Middle East - - or a EURO fiasco will be the deathknell of the gold bear.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:17 - ID#401460)
Were you once in the Clinton Administration?
Your reverse logic sounds very familiar.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:17 - ID#410198)
Will go to bed HAPPY we are not crazy GOLD RULES so much for RELIC OF THE PAST

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:20 - ID#432157)



(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:20 - ID#153111)
Bad Things Happen in Bear Markets
One aspect of markets that is little looked at is the effects of mass psychology on the participants in the markets. Much work has been done by James Dines as well as Richard Russell and others on the psychology of investors. As Mr. Russell use to say, "bad things happen in bear markets". The fall from grace of any President is a bad thing, does it portend anything for the markets?

It is amazing that Clinton is a guy who trashed his security system in the White House, and had at least one of his guys - with Chinese money connections- is given a Top Secret Clearance - without the mandatory FBI background check- and the keys to the classified materials safe. On this guy's travel voucher he took a write off for taxi rides from the White House to the Chinese Embassy. How bold can one be! Clinton has had associations with drug dealers Dan Lasator and that one guy from S. America who had his picture of him with Clinton at a White House Christmas party. He and his wife have crushed little unimportant Americans like Billy Dale of Travel Gate fame, or private citizens who are too persistent in asking about his broken promises on tax cuts at pubic meetings. There has been no shortage of incidents from Clinton that would not lower his popularity in the polls or to kick him out of office if people cared to look, the amazing thing was that so few gave a damn. Is it just a coincidence that Clinton had a 6 year grace period where all was forgiven and overlooked and this same period of grace occurred during the blow off stage of the biggest Bull Market in American history? Look at a chart of the Dow or S& P 500 Clinton started his rule over his American Subjects in January of 1993. Well now it is 1998 and it seems that people who didn't care before, care now! I have never seen the press analyze each word uttered from Clinton for so many negative nuances.

Besides one of the most corrupt administrations in American history, what else was overlooked and out of the minds of the American People:

a ) . A government totally broke;

b ) . a Social Security system with no money in it after 63 years of citizens contributing money to it.

c ) . the middle class is carrying on its back the welfare state and public servants as numerous as a plague of locus;

d ) . pension funds, banks, and insurance companies to fulfill their legal requirement of being a "prudent investors" had to invest billions of dollars in US Treasury JUNK BONDS.

e ) . Oh I could go on and on with liberal harebrained ideas that will fail with Soviet Proportions!

Just like the S.E. Asian Tigers late last summer, in the space of 24 hours things changed. One night Clinton went to bed and all was right in the world, but when he woke up the world and the rules in it had changed. What were strengths are now weaknesses, he is undone, a door had closed, there is no escaping his fate.

I believe this tidal wave of history will strike each of us just as suddenly before it withdraws. I don't know exactly what I should do? Open a bank account in the Grand Cayman Islands? That use to sound pretty good, but one day I read that banks can all of a sudden go bad even there. When people in the United States, as else where, take a more critical look at not just President Clinton but also many of the assumptions that looked like bedrock under their feet they will start to question just how firm those foundations are. Many US Federal Agencies are ponzi scams. Washington has promised all thing to all people, empty promises that will prove to be the stuff of fraud and ruin for millions. Didn't President Clinton say we have the strongest economy in the last 60 years? Should I draw comfort from this "fact" anymore? This will also come into the mass awareness of the American people. Once the Good Ship of State USS Washington DC starts to break up I intend to follow the advice I got in Navy boot camp and swim away from the sinking hulk, don't get pulled in by the suction! I just don't know the magnetic bearing to the nearest friendly land.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:21 - ID#398105)
He's been working hard in the Oral long as Bill "had a good time"...................

You have got to hand it too him, Bill Clinton must be the only man who can turn attention away from one of his sex scandals with another sex scandal!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:21 - ID#410198)
Will go to bed HAPPY we are not crazy GOLD RULES so much for RELIC OF THE PAST

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:21 - ID#288156)
FT Frid Jan 23, 1998-- Lead Story { :- (
Prosecutors expand Clinton investigation

US prosecutors expanded their investigation into allegations that president Bill Clinton had an affair with a former White House worker then asked her to deny it under oath. They subpoenaed documents from the White House as the scandal dominated Washington for a second day, overshadowing an official visit by Yassir Arafat, the Palestinian leader.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:22 - ID#252150)
RJ@ your 21:49
Priceless. You should send a copy to Jay Leno. He would probably hire you as one of his writers @ $500,000+.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:25 - ID#401460)
Come on now! You have to admit there is no one, and may have never been anyone in Politics that can compare with Clinton's record.
And, that is pretty bad! This guy is a piece of work. He will go down in history as a ________.


(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:30 - ID#364147)
Haggis...........and Bubba Clinton
He's the real 'Tricky Dick'......Nixon was just a pretender~~~nite all ( Have ta get me beauty sleep )

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:31 - ID#288156)
Lonrho: Pledge to buy- back shares

By Andrew Edgecliffe- Johnson

Lonrho, the conglomerate attempting to become a focused mining company,
said yesterday it would buy back a tenth of its shares even if talks to buy in a 26.1 per cent stake failed.

Nick Morrell, chief executive, also hinted that the company might consider paying special dividends to distribute proceeds from its planned disposal programme. That is supposed to be a GLUM face, dispirited by the whole distasteful mess... { :- ( but I forgot the
closing bracket..

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:34 - ID#252150)
Preacher & Tzadeak
I'm far from an expert on currencies, although I've made some pretty good $ shorting the DM & JY over the last year. With the situations in Germany & especially Japan, there is no reason for the $ to decline. The CB has been intervening in Japan. I will be looking for an entry point to get back on the short side of the JY & still think it will go to 140. Clinton's latest indiscretion could have a negative effect,but Japan is a basket case & they will get a lot worse before they ever get better.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:37 - ID#398105) are living in "cotton wool". Stop thinking like a SEPTIC TANK ! !

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:37 - ID#57232)
Your swing chart - updated
sharefin: Looks to me that we are still in "lock step". Just had an idea that might explain some of what is happening. Part of the reason that we are in "lock step" is that the baby boomers are probably holding back from more buying, and the pros are running the market. It would be interesting to see what the money flow into mutual funds vs money markets is these days - - I bet my quess will be right.

Anyway, any time the markets are being driven in this way, the risk of a sudden change goes way up. All we need now is some sort of trigger, and we will have the correction that we all think may be coming.

But - - as we well know - - "lock step" does not mean a crash is imminent, it just means that the probability of same has gone up.

The alternative - - a US market rally right now - - - is highly unlikely, unless there are other non- US crises still to come.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:39 - ID#252150)
I would think very carefully about investing in a backwards, politically unstable country where the govt has been known to serve sponge cake as a main course at a state dinner... You've heard of the twinkies defense.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:40 - ID#248180)
@ Oh What a Day/Night this is on Kitco "Truths & Laughs" !!!
MJPL @ 23:20 - Well stated. Could not agree any more- to the top of the class.

RJ @ 21:49 - Heh, heh, heh - I pissed myself laughing! You must be an Aussie or a red neck. Excellent.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:41 - ID#287207)
panda: Bill sure isn't looking too good tonight. Its is all over every live channel I can get except the sports channels. Anyway I think its time to cut the enjoyment and get ready to shovel the 7 inches or so of snow that is supposed to blanket Toronto before I get up tomorrrow.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:43 - ID#398105)
AND NOW..................for Todays Good News....... the US National Debt !!!

01/21/1998 $5,501,520,207,927.51

Month Amount

01/20/1998 $5,495,525,658,807.45
01/16/1998 $5,492,896,688,858.39
01/15/1998 $5,491,815,670,026.21
01/14/1998 $5,488,705,496,927.68
01/13/1998 $5,486,749,552,796.75
01/12/1998 $5,481,621,078,832.40
01/09/1998 $5,480,038,744,944.38
01/08/1998 $5,479,700,204,736.38
01/07/1998 $5,484,646,071,706.36
01/06/1998 $5,486,352,648,906.21
01/05/1998 $5,481,924,290,553.50
01/02/1998 $5,476,836,236,537.09

Anyone, JAMES, wanting to go short............???? !!!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:45 - ID#401460)
"Great deal for these young coeds, They get to serve under president Clinton." Jay Leno

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:47 - ID#252150)

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:49 - ID#401460)

"The question shouldn't be:
What was the president thinking of?
It shiuld be:
What was the President thinking with?"

Jay Leno

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:49 - ID#57232)
President Thatcher
Haggis: I think that is a great idea! Didn't think much of her public speaking style as Prime Minister, but she has spunk - - and I always felt she was as honest as they come. Her qualities are sorely lacking in current American leaders.

By the way - - please don't think that the average American is a "liberal" as you have defined it in your hilarious posts. The liberals ( as defined in the American sense ) have nearly complete control over the news media, most of the education system, and much of the political system. But - - I think the average American is still relatively conservative. It is just as someone on this site pointed out - - that the political conservatives cannot seem to get their act together - - most of the time.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:50 - ID#372344)
@ James...
Of course this is just my view, but as I posted earlier the US$ is about
to crack as we speak the yen is at 126.80 and the mark is below
180 after interesting story in Telegraph re Budenbk hoarding Gold,
and also weak vs SF. Interest rates are coming down in the US as the economy starts to tank re Asian "Glitch" whereas they can't go much lower in Japan since then they would be minus?..

This new Clinton scandal has got "LEGS" as they say inside the Beltway and will literally tie the Presidency up in Red Tape and leave it unable to deal effectively with upcoming "Crisis".

NO I don't believe the US$ is a buy but rather Bye Bye!!

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:55 - ID#288156)
Sharefin, re: Global "Red-Alert" update--do you give much credence to that?
Shouldn't we give the Chinese a tad more credit in the brainpower department? Parts of this report seem like re- hash of 30 year- old intelligence abstracts. Chinese intelligence reports cataloging the last six years would more reasonably reinforce Chinese fears of instability and chaos!?! I posted a "grading the president" article from "Foreign
Policy" journal yesterday ( I think ) and hopping around the world's capitals, there seemed to be total agreement that the U.S.

Glum. Glum. Glum.

This is very much Shiva's repeated story, expanded and 'detailed'...
What do you think?

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:56 - ID#248180)
@ Slick Willie
Me thinks that Mr. Slick Willie will soon understand when the city boy who attended his first Spring Queensland cattle roundup and viewing the job of branding and castration: He asked, just before, they were about to casterate the young bull, What are you about to do there? The cattle rancher replied, "Well son, we are going to change this young bulls desire of arse ( ass ) to grass." How about that Limp Willie.

(Thu Jan 22 1998 23:57 - ID#401460)
"Kenneth Star has found the Smoking Gun and it is in Clinton's Pants."

Jay Leno