Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:00 - ID#398105)
James ......." there is no reason for the $ to decline"

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:02 - ID#28585)
Expert says Americans are hungry for risk

By Jeff German

ATLANTIC CITY - - Americans are gambling more because they're in the
mood to take greater risks, a leading expert on gambling disorders said today. Dr. Howard Shaffer, an associate professor at the Harvard Medical School in Boston, told the National Gambling Impact Study Commission that 90 percent of all Americans now have gambled during their lifetime.

Gambling also has proliferated among the nation's youth, he said, adding in prepared testimony that 90 percent of all high- school seniors have placed a bet.

"There seems to be a genuine hunger among the American people to take
greater risks," said Shaffer, who runs Harvard's Division on Addictions.

He said the number of pathological or problem gamblers in the country - - now about 4.4 million - - also has increased as gaming has spread throughout the nation. But he suggested, as with alcohol and tobacco abusers, the number of compulsive gamblers will decline over time.

Shaffer's testimony came on the second day of the nine- member panel's first hearing outside Washington, D.C.

He compared efforts to understand compulsive gambling to trying to shoot a fish in a clear pool of water with a bow and arrow.

"While it is easy to see the fish and take aim, refraction makes the task almost impossible," he said.

Shaffer urged the commission to press the federal government to develop a rigorous campaign to advance the study and treatment of gambling disorders.

He encouraged gambling proponents and opponents to join together to further treatment programs.

Dr. Rachel Volberg, another leading expert on problem gambling, suggested
the casino industry needs to contribute more dollars to fighting the disorder.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:03 - ID#227238)
Haggis: Damn we're good. Ain't we? Once again we're piling debt on at the rate of $1 billion each and every day. Americans do everything, more and better. ..... but the budget is balanced. They say. I wonder how that works?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:05 - ID#401460)
Dollar/mark's drop erodes hope....
INSIGHT- Dollar/mark's drop erodes hope for more gains

NEW YORK, Jan 22 ( Reuters ) - Stunned by dollar/mark's unexpectedly sharp drop from Monday's levels, chartists were
unsure on Wednesday about the dollar's near- term direction.

But they agreed it will rise in the longer term.

``Certainly market confidence has been shaken after dollar/mark broke through 1.8080 becaused this is the first time in
about 12 weeks that we have seen this trendline fail to hold,'' said Andrew Chaveriat, technical analyst at Paribas.

Chartists were slightly glum after the dollar closed at 1.8035/45 marks, under the key 1.81 mark level which would have
an end to near term selling.

``As dollar/mark did not close above 1.84 on Thursday, the odds for a deeper decline increase,'' a chartist said.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:05 - ID#286230)
TZADEAK* If the U$ is bye bye- - doesn't that mean that gold is a buy buy?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:10 - ID#248180)
@ Earl & Haggis
Maybe the USA & IMF economic policy is based upon a book by Napolean Hill titled "Think and Grow Rich" except they are skipping the "Think" part.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:16 - ID#41229)
MJLP 23:20 Post
I also was wondering, as I was watching Sunday news show, w/Sam Donaldson and Cookie, Kareoky, Cokey ahhh hell I don't know Some Chick Roberts. They both were reasigned, Sam to the White House and, errr The Chick to Capital Hill, while I was watching I'm thinking what the heck, why would they both go back to the beat. Then Sam gets on a Tirade it seems the moment who gets back on the White House beat, totally out of charactor for him against this administration. Side note, what the Heck does Sam have against George Wills, other than he seems to make sense, must be the Bow tie. Anyway, I think the fix maybe in, I know this sounds alittle conspiratorial but all the sudden wham, heres this new scandel with Sam and the Chick positioned in the key location to capitalize on the events. Seemed very strange, anybody else pick up on this? Maybe this sight starting to rub off on me?

Side note HIGHRISE & HAGGIS you guys are cracking me up tonight.

To all good informative posts tonight. Where's Ziva?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:16 - ID#57232)
Dollar to go up or down?
HighRise: The dollar could very well go up some more - - driven by more non- US crises. I don't think it is in our best interests for it to do so, and AG/RR will do their very best to prevent this from happening.
With derivatives trading at about $1.4 trillion per day on the dollar, it will be difficult for the FED to push the dollar down by themselves. Perhaps they will enlist the help of the Japanese. If they fail, the rising dollar will precipitate some more currency crises over the world - - have you noticed what is happening to the Canadian dollar?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:18 - ID#280222)
RE: your 22:28
HIGHRISE: Well said sir.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:19 - ID#401460)
Clinton's Escape
Clinton may get out of this by the definition of oral sex not being Adultery in his mind. When he said this or that he didn't mean that because in his mind that meant that it would not have been an affair because oral sex is not adultery therefore not an affair.

I can just hear them now. The president did not lie, he just had a different perception of what is right and what is wrong. Therefore he is really not committing perjery.

He is a conservative socialist and a liberal sexist who practices economical practical oral sex which is not adultery therefore the american people will approve.

NOW! 6 years later! Nightline is playing Jennifer Flowers tapes. The press is after him now, like a junk yard dog.


(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:20 - ID#57232)
G'Nite all!
Well - - the gold bear is ending! Keep your powder dry!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:22 - ID#401460)



(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:24 - ID#252150)
Re: Clinton, in replying to your post I was only refering to the adultery

& figuratively speaking "screwing the U.S." Don't you agree that the politicians in the senate & congress ( past & present ) are responsible for the multi trillion $ debt that will eventually destroy your Country?

As for adultery, I'm not sure what an accurate figure would be for men, but realistically would have to think 70% +. And it has been proven that the higher the education & income level, the higher the incidence of adultery. As for the other transgressions that Clinton has been accused of, I don't really have any idea of their veracity, but doubt very much if they have ever endangered the security of your Country.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:25 - ID#372344)
@ Selby....US$ Bye Bye=Gold Buy Buy?
A reasonable person in a "normal" market sutuation would also come
immediately to that conclusion, however Gold is not a "normal" market
as you probably well know. I think of course eventually that most certainly will be the case, however as I sated earlier, don't ever discount the PPT,
IMHO they were in there up to their knees in it today, trying to feverishly hold the very important psychological line in Gold of 300US$ cause they know it will it will move $25- $50 easily ,initially and that is half way
to US$400 and wich would certainly portent further ominus events for
US Buble confidence.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:30 - ID#373403)
This Clinton controversey could well be the trigger for the worldwide loss of confidence which will crash the markets. If these allegations overpower the Presidents ability to create policy, chaos is but a step away. Saddam may take advantage of this weakness. Oil and inflation.

The Middle East peace process gone, more regional instability.

No support for trade agreements, IMF funding, loss of international standing.

Asia is a market in crisis looking to the west for strong leadership. If there is none, debt moratoriums loom. Special interest U.S. manufacturing lobby will have a cheaper time buying Republican access for trade protections.

Clintons voice will not carry the strength to calm shaky markets.

We should all be ready to lash ourselves to the mainsail with our bags of gold in hand and ride out this storm.

Steven Pollack

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:31 - ID#225273)
Haggis and the U.S. debt
Haggis: I'll give you $5 to tell me where I can get that information each day.

The Preacher

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:32 - ID#288156)
Refer: re Sam and Cokie
I wondered about that too. Mighty interesting 'side- line' events taking place! The India gold thingy is another. I posted the first
"India Gold" and the post was from India's CENTRAL BANK...
cut and dried forward planning schedules. This was reinforced by two complementary follow- up stories. Now why would the "problem" of Indian citizens 'hoarding' gold be a "problem" when the Central Bank
of India has clearly laid out its intentions to EXPAND and FACILITATE Indian citizens and NON- CITIZENS opportunities to own, hoard, sell,
fabricate and otherwise interact with the noble metal? Lots of little puzzles, yes?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:34 - ID#411259)
..... Wide Eyed Terror .....

In the book "Watership Down" rabbits, caught in the beam of an onrushing headlight, would freeze and simply stare in terror. They went "tharn", as this condition was called in the book.

At the photo op this am, Clinton looked like he was going tharn.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:37 - ID#28585)
See Post 00:02.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:37 - ID#401460)
"responsible for the multi trillion $ debt that will eventually destroy your Country?"

I agree that many politicians have contributed to our national debt, but that is not relevant to the subject at hand; which is one of a President of the United States who has been nothing but a very visable cheat and a liar and as such has embarassed our country and has now put her in harms way as a result of his actions.


(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:37 - ID#153102)
Why Are Foreigners So Poorly Informed
The President of the United States is the chief law enforcement officer of the federal government.
Perjury. Suborning perjury.
Read some English history with an eye for the phrase High Crimes & Misdemeanors.
In retrospect, when the Supreme Court held that the President was not immune to civil process, the die was cast because it meant he could be put under oath.
Gore will not be President for long, if at all.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:38 - ID#373403)
U.S. Debt

Went up $6 Billion today.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:45 - ID#373403)
01/21/1998 $5,501,520,207,927.51
Month Amount
01/20/1998 $5,495,525,658,807.45
01/16/1998 $5,492,896,688,858.39
01/15/1998 $5,491,815,670,026.21
01/14/1998 $5,488,705,496,927.68
01/13/1998 $5,486,749,552,796.75
01/12/1998 $5,481,621,078,832.40
01/09/1998 $5,480,038,744,944.38
01/08/1998 $5,479,700,204,736.38
01/07/1998 $5,484,646,071,706.36
01/06/1998 $5,486,352,648,906.21
01/05/1998 $5,481,924,290,553.50
01/02/1998 $5,476,836,236,537.09
$24.7 Billion in 21 days. Annualized to $429 Billion. Balanced budget, Ha! Wait until the market drops and capital gains taxes turn into capital loss write off. We, the connected world community, are collectively screwed. No joy in this revelation.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:54 - ID#252150)
IMO the $ is in better shape than the JY, although it may be the lesser of 2 evils. Japan's debt is now well over 100% of gdp & is projected to reach 120% within 1- 2 yrs. Their deficit & debt is far worse than the U.S.'s.

Japan is screwed because they cannot consume their way out of this mess &

as you probably know the consumer is 2/3 of their gdp.

I have some insights as to why this is true. My daughter in law is Japanese & has been in Canada for 7 yrs.

The Japanese live in tiny houses & apartments. My son & daughtr in law live in an 700 sq ft apt here in Victoria. That apt would be considered an average size for a family with 1 or 2 kids in a large city in Japan.

If the Japanese had an inclination to start consuming & buying a bunch of junk like we do in N. America, where would they put it? Would they want a 60 inch TV in a 10 by 12 room. Only a very small % of the population own homes. Besides that, as you are no doubt aware the Japanese like minimalism. They don't like clutter in their lives, even if they had a place to put it. On top of all that, demographics is against them. They are the most aged population in the world & know the state won't be able to help them with medicare & social security.

Put all these things together & you have a recipe for disaster.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 00:55 - ID#41229)
Farfel @ Gambling
Thats gotta be a spoof, was wondering what the point was until I read the last line where the Dr. would like the organations who benifits from the activity, to pay for the treatment to stop the behavior inwhich they capitalize in.

So are you saying we get the CB's to pay for the education on why we need a fixed monetary system back by relic that they have promoted to be of a by gone era, ............Lets do it , am sure we can apply for a grant by Div. of U.S. gov.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:05 - ID#401460)
JTF (Dollar to go up or down?)

I have not made many comments on the US$, because, like you say the derivative plays and all of the market controls and rigging.

But because of the Presidential Crisis in the US and posts from others here, who know one H of a lot more about currencies than me, I am beginning to feel that market forces are about to revert to more traditional patterns and directions. The news of the German and other European CBs hording Gold, I feel is very significant. There could be a spread of the currency crisis to the rest of the world.

The big question now is, Has the US come into question as "a place of safe haven"? How will the US $ and Bond be valued in the morning?

In a nut shell, it is a gut feeling. There are to many loose cannons on the deck.


The Hatt
(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:05 - ID#294232)
Someone Call The Police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For the second time in 69 years the poor of this country are about to be stripped of their life savings. As the mutual fund industry buys paper with both hands the poor have no idea that it is their money that is being thrown at this already in progress bear.It is a sad state of affairs when a Country will allow its citizens to be drawn into a ponzi game of this magnitude. As I watch CNBC it angers me that these people can make the comments they do and get away with it!
Who would ever of guessed that Clintons sex life outside of his marriage would be the event that would lead to the breaking of the bubble. The Dow has been in a distribution phase for the last two weeks and the time is drawing ever closer to the day we wake up to find that the Dow has lost its liquidity and the real panic will begin! As a Canadian I cringe when I hear our Prime Minister suggest that he is not worried about our dollar at an all time low and the markets will decide where it should be. His statements concerning our dollar simply suggests his understanding of the world economics is sadly lacking any kind of direction. Please for those of you still holding equity mutual funds GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!!!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:16 - ID#41229)
James @ outlook crossed
I think you looking in the wrong areas in comparison!

Japan has one of the highest savings ratio of public in the world, and by your own statement are not in dept for all the junk cluttering up the place. Their society is one of take care of your self and your own family, by your own statement of most age society without assistance programs. In other words the accept responsibility for themselves and their families. Their culture as I know of resents people offering help. It makes them look weak.

Now, Let's look at U.S., one of the highest standards of living in world, ( which has been in decline ) but everything is on credit, everyone leveraged, saving to debt ratio way lower than japans, Families on a whole would rather have elders institutionalized paid by the state and gov. than having responsibility. My little area of the globe 50+% on some sort of assistance program. People are not bothered at all by taken assistance. In fact most are proud and brag how much they can get out of system.

Your economic numbers for U.S. only apply when there is a growing economy, if U.S. went through what Japan went through the last 7- 8 years we would not be in as good as a position as they are today. If U.S. went through want Japan did in last 6 months, explain to me who would buy our debt.

Please explain to me how the largest creditor nation can be in worse peril than the largest debtor nation.

I think you should look again.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:22 - ID#401460)

I am curious, maybe you can answer a question for me. On a trip to Hong Kong, I flew over Kolbe a week before the Earthquake. It was really weired, Kolbe was the only view, through the clouds, of the Earth's surface we had the entire trip, and I looked down and recongnized it from the map on the plane's TV. Durring my stay in HK, I was more than usual, thinking about earthquakes. I would look at buildings and wonder what will hold this structure up when the Earth moves. Anyway, we got back to the States when the Quake in Kolbe hit.

WELL, my question is: I expected a real increase in the demand for building materials and other items as a result of the tremendous destruction. Did they ever rebuild, and if so to what degree and quality?


(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:30 - ID#252150)
He has has the strongest paper & the MOST POWERFUL MILITARY rules.

At least temporarily.

Re: Japan being a creditor nation & the U.S. being a debtor nation.

What good has it done the Japanese? They're living in rabbit hutches in polluted cities. They need to be a millionaire to join a golf club.

It's really strange how an intelligent people ended up in such a sad predicament. Who ever said life is supposed to be fair?

Night all.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:30 - ID#28585)
@REFER, you've got it! Let the CB's pay for the necessary treatment
As per your interpretation...YES!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:33 - ID#220325)
Would you please explain in layman's terms what you meant by "Sell your silver today, buy it back in the future at a guaranteed lower price".

Thank you

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:35 - ID#153102)
Call The Police
Police: they enforce the law for the people, don't they ?
Do they ?
Do they have a legal obligation ?
Or are they employees of a corporation with a legal obligation to protect the property of the corporation ? Who does my telephone number belong to ? Who does my Social Security Number belong to ? Who is legal owner of my car and what does that mean ?
What is collateral damage ? What is collateral ?
If a government can create a corporation, can it not create a corporation by which to govern ? Can it name the corporation UNITED STATES ? Have you ever seen a sign that said Property of UNITED STATES ? Can a corporation go by several similar names, legally ? Can a government name a corporation STATE OF MICHIGAN ?
Are the people at the Department of X, Y, or Z government employees or government corporation employees called government employees by the corporation ?
Did anything happen before I was born ?
Have I signed documents I did not understand ?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:38 - ID#41229)
James Before you sleep
What does that do with a country being able to help in a finicial crisis, I don't follow.

Are you suggesting our gov. will take from other nation with military might to feed citizens?

That millionaires know how to make resource go further, like food and money?

Not quite sure what your trying to explain to me.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:39 - ID#252150)
That's a good example of how bad their economy is. I have'nt seen any reports on the rebuilding lately, but would have to assume that it must be almost completed. And yet all that rebuilding, which cost many billions, apparently did'nt even nudge up their gdp.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:40 - ID#255284)
aren't there any rhetorical questions anymore?

mozel. my hyperactive friend, the answer to all your questions, is that your are an American.

May gold have mercy on your sole


Bart Kitner (Kitco)
(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:41 - ID#25867)
Spoilsport and enforcer all in one post.
To: Ted Butler - Will respond to you tomorrow re defaults.

Sharefin: Please check the new netiquette rules. We're trying to cut out the ads. Thanks.

vronsky - Your website is excellent and a must visit for everyone interested in gold. I'm sure a lot of people, myslef included, would be interested in knowing when new articles appear on your site. If you keep us abreast of those URLs once as they occur I don't think anyone could argue that that's advertising.

ALSO..This a GOLD discussion group. The subjects of silver, platinum and palladium may also be broached.There is no question that presidential sexual harrasment is a lot more interesting than metal. That's why there's lots of discussion going on about it all over the internet. In an effort to get the bulk of the dialogue back to boring gold please continue the Clinton stuff at any of the following locations. In fact if you know of a better spot, please post it.

Excellent, excellent places to talk about Bill, Paula and the US administration: ( These are just a few )





alt.current- events.clinton.whitewater

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:45 - ID#252150)
Why do you think your coffee & bananas are so cheap- - big macs as well.

Millions of people are living at a bare subsistence level in latin america, so that we can live well. Ever heard of Pinochet?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:47 - ID#20136)
Thanks Bart I think we needed that.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:48 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Mozel - - Your WHOLE statement; You got it. They might make one into a 'legal' slave, but they are still hard put to make one a lawful slave. About the best 'containment' they've been able to manage so far is to do a 'railroad' job to solitary confinement, or to shoot the people. I believe we know many instances of both.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:50 - ID#153102)
I am
I am a saver.
I save my credits. I have a lot of credits. The economists approve of me.
Where did my credits come from ? What do you mean my credits are just evidence of debt ? What do you mean I am saving debt ? That is nonsense. I get a good interest on my savings. I invest my savings in stocks and even bonds. My credits are adding up. I do not believe the debt my credits are evidence of is going up faster than the earnings on my credits.
Why do you call these credits, anyway ? They are money. Don't try to confuse me.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:51 - ID#255284)
panning for gold..

Bart: Thanks, I thought I might have displayed *my* parochialism if I complained about so much klintonalia on kitco, then I remembered most N American's can't locate Washington, let alone Wellington.
and I sleep easy.

This site, she's OK. Bart

(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:54 - ID#41229)
Question to Bart.
I know a lot of topics on these sight are not that which directly relates to gold, and I'm not suggesting that the spoofs and jokes have anything to do with gold, but since gold is clearly a politically controlled and influenced metal, politics ( which covers a wide range of topics ) directly and indirectly effect the price of gold. Would you not agree?

John Disney__A
(Fri Jan 23 1998 01:58 - ID#24135)
Left handed camel grabs - DEElicious
For all

Someone is confused on Gold production. Suggest

write these numbers down somewhere- this is what I have.

If you have something else - please say so. Numbers

in tons for top 6 producers. I get a total of only

1570 tons - Can that be right ??

Rsa - 495

USA - 315

Aust - 300

Can - 160

China - 150

Russia - 150

For Earl

Regarding Areas - I see no point in messing with

West Areas - I know they had good results ( which I

seem to have misplaced ) - but I THINK ( ?? ) they have

been sold to Anglos - in that case their price will

simply float as a percentage of the Vaal reef price.

On the other hand, the JCI/Anglo/Lonrho deals have

gotten so confusing that I dont think anybody

understands who is buying who. Seems like Kebbel

and Mzi just fight and screw things up and Lonrho

is brain dead or half asleep while Anglos circles like

a vulture waiting for someone to make a mistake -

which there seem to be plenty of.

If you want a solid blue chip take vaal - that way

you get West Deep and west Areas anyway ( I think ) .

For Oris

I cant see the Chinese fighting in the desert. But

a friend of mine in the spectacle trade says he's been

invited to quote on a billion pairs of sun glasses.

And another guy in the shoe business has an offer to

quote on a billion pairs of sand shoes. All destination

far East. If you send me your recipe for Mongolian beef,

Ill send you mine for a bedouin left handed camel grab.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:03 - ID#41229)
James@ I really confused now!
I thoughtwe were discussing how, by your posting, U.S. dollar is stronger and how U.S. will weather an economical crisis better than Japan, due to the fact U.S. can consume its way out of it problem where as Japan cannot, inwhich you gave the reasons why. I am sorry because we odviously are having two different conversations at this point. I must have interpreted something incorrctly.

John Disney__A
(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:04 - ID#24135)
You are full of bananas
For James -

I know its trendy to bad mouth Pinochet, and Im sure Jane

Fonda or B. Streisand would approve, BUT I dont think Chile

is a major exporter of either Coffee or Bananas. Chilenos

live fairly well too.

desert rat
(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:05 - ID#269118)
climax of "con" fidence

One doesn't need to read Precter's newsletter very long to realize
two things. 1 ) trying to trade with his elliott wave interpretations
can be a very expensive exercise. 2} psychological and social forces
in the markets are extremely powerful ; his seat of the pants calls in this arena are right on. Albeit his timing may be less than exact.

Anyone interested enough to follow this site regularly knows that the
the operative word in the battle between fiat and real money is
"confidence". It is my contention that we are at a sea change
in regard to the level of confindence in our polical system and this is
only a short hop to lack of confidence in our currency.

The reissued tapes of Jennifer Flowers that were played today
ring with a resonace that we missed the first time aroung. She
said the this guy is conning you. This time the cummulative public
response will be "we 've been had , now I think I get it. "

There are two ways to tell if a ship is sinking. One by measuring the
depth of water in the hold . The second by counting the number of rats jumping ship. Watching George Stephonopolis trying to preserve
his employability as a network commentator is the most entertaining
thing I've seen in a long time.

I believe that therer is a very good chance that within 24 hours we will
see an attempt at "Swaggart" solution. A la " I have sinned etc etc
ad naseum. Remember you saw it here first. This has been what he has
always done before and it's always worked before. He will try it again.

In our personal lives we have all been conned by charasmatic
individuals. The aftermath is longlasting and vengeful. Clinton's
arrogance and that of his attorney Bennett will leave a long lasting distrust of things political especially among the populace who are not nearly as sophisticated as the average Kitcoite. Monica Lewinskies statements may be able to be controlled
however I would not be surprised to hear a statement from her
mother a la Martha Mitchell.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:06 - ID#153102)
Perhaps. I do not know.
Many have the law from mater in the beginning. Was it one law ? Or, oh, oh, so very different where we are.

John Disney__A
(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:11 - ID#24135)
You really are full of bananas

Really - You seem to believe that it is BAD to save and

live frugally and GOOD to borrow a spend more than you

have - And that the Japanese are in trouble because of THAT.

I think Asia is in trouble because it accepted money pushed

on them by foreign banks and accepted US dumbo debt

as Reserves. They should have financed themselves by selling

their OWN debt rather than via bank borrowings, and used

gold as reserves rather that US treasuries. When they get out

of this, I dont think thet will make this mistake again.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:16 - ID#153111)
Clinton Reverse Speach on Art Bell tonight
I'm listening to Art Bell and he is going to have on David John Oats in just a few minutes, Mr. Oats does "reverse speech". What is reverse speech? Mr Oats claims that human vocal communications takes place on two levels, conscious and subconscious. Conscious speech is what we would call conversation but by playing back speech in reverse you can get "reverse speech" and this is subconscious communications and reverse speech doesn't lie. I know it sounds crazy but I think there is something to it. Tonight's topic is on the Current crisis in the Story of Clinton. True of false Mr. Oats is always good for some interesting radio when on Art Bell's program.

John Disney__A
(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:20 - ID#24135)
Good Questions Mr Mozel
For Mozel

Your questions are good - too good -

Ill answer one -

Nothing happened before you were born. Because Life is

a hologram and you are the laser beam. Without you, I

cease to exist. There is really no GOLD, it's only a bunch

of numbers that you create. There is really no one on

kitco. Im just talking to myself. So are you. So dont get

too concerned over things. They arent there anyway.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:24 - ID#255284)

mozel, no it is not so different where we each are. Perhaps it is very much the same...Perhaps it is just that America's cultural influence has spread so far that you who are inside, cannot see so clearly what lies outside, or perhaps, even within.

For truly, there are many down here who more know about your wars ( NZ has fought alongside USA in more wars than any other nation on earth - the reason for my salty intemperance ) and your constitution, your independance and your Hollywood, your music ( Studio_R Townes Van Zandt- some damned fine songwriter ) and your origins than you yourselves do. But, how suprising is that? When you have taught the world about yourselves ( TV & All other media ) Yet, have you listened to other voices? How much have you learned from other nations?

As has been pointed out here by  and others. the USA is a melting pot for the world. Accomodating, Open, Kind. Perhaps this history of the USA, is the history of other places and other times too... I thrive on your thought- provoking posts, merci.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:28 - ID#41229)
Bart thank you for the ability to gain a wealth of knowlegde by simply check in. At this sight there are numerous postings by credible media sources on subjects that will effect are every day life. Much credit go to the posters, but without the sight inwhich you have made possible there would not be a medium! In this statement I tell speak from a voice of appreciation, not trying to kiss up.


(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:32 - ID#255284)
Big Cheese....
Desert Rat? Gnaw! You is King Rat!

call 'em straight.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:34 - ID#255284)
10,000 monkeys
You mean there's more than just you an me here?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:39 - ID#153102)
I have something in my hand
My stomach is with me. And I have something in my hand. It is not a number.
I have noticed that some of the best things in life are free, but that none of the things you must have to live are free. these days not even air and water.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:44 - ID#401460)
Bart Kitner (Kitco)


When the largest industrial nation in the world, the nation that is being ask to fund the Asian Bailout has a Major Crisis in leadership, I do believe this is a subject very relevant to the price of Gold. It was relevant when Nixon was forced to resign and may be this time. The US is the largest debtor nation and anything that causes a loss in confidence will drive the price of Gold. The IMF, as of tonight, does not have adequate funding to meet their commitments.

When the president of The United States of America is having a press conference with another major world leader, and instead of being ask whether there will be peace or war in the world he is ask did you lie about having an affair with Monica? I am sorry, I feel that is pure Gold subject matter. The President of The United States is trying to keep the Mid East Peace Talks alive and he has to answer questions about his adultery. What do you think these two world leaders are thinking, as they watch this President try to BS his way out of a real mess - Oh my God, he cant help us. We are talking possible impeachment here Bart.

Potential Laws Broken.

I agree, we have to be careful not to drift to far into this smut filled political atmosphere, however we need to be aware of the latest in this fast moving story. And I have if Jay Leno offers a little break from all of the doom and gloom so be it. As always, I will try to refrain from posting irrelevant material .

Thank You

(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:50 - ID#401460)
Europe & Gold
I have noticed how Gold price spikes up significantly over Europe must be some demand there - you think maybe?

Check - Europe hording Gold earlier post.

We may be close.
Good Night All


(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:50 - ID#244360)
Mr. Disney
Could you give a brief synopsis of why investment in SA in general and SA mining in particular is a good idea? I am considering DROOY, but I have been unable to turn up any substantive information on them. Would you know of a good site, or have some information yourself?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:52 - ID#398105)
James................shades of Karlito99...............

G'Day Mate,

I assume you are a YANK, hence the reference to Septic Tank.

The US National Debt is approx US$ 5.3 trillion, the US gross assets are valued at US$ 1.3 trillion. You are technically insolvent, and at some point something has to give ....

The "Almighty Dollar", is a figment of your imagination, no ones else......

The Japanese, well they may be down but they are certainly not out. For example, IF the entire worlds' surface gold supply was put on the market, the Japanese could easily buy and aborb it......they are not going to absorb your debt in the long run.

Do yourself a favour and swallow some disinfectant !

Aye Haggis.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 02:55 - ID#398105)
HighRise.......hear, hear.......

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:04 - ID#398105)
James.......are you sure that you know how to spell.........."insight"

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:14 - ID#153102)
Haggis wants us yanks to swallow disinfectant. He does not sound like a friend of The Great Experiment to me.
Imagine, if you can, Haggis as a lawyer. Counselling lawyers across the pond. A long time ago.
Could they subvert The Great Experiment ?
Where did the Bar Association come from ?
Where is the L____ Metals Exchange Association located ?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:26 - ID#419147)
modern politicks
Check address, http://www.the- 1.html it might be of interest

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:28 - ID#398105)
themissinglink, The Preacher and Earl.............

US National Debt..........

FOOD FOR THOUGHT.............

1 ton = 1.016 tonne = 1.016 Mg = 0.0326 Moz

Worlds annual gold production = approx 2 500 tons

= 81.662 Moz

At US$290 per oz.........

Total US$ value of worlds annual production = US$23 682 000 000

Now say US National Debt per day increases by US$ 1 000 000 000

per annum = US$ 360 000 000 000

Now......... Debt per annum MUCH GREATER THAN annual gold production

Add on the actual outstanding Debt of US$ 5.3 trillion........

It would appear that even although gold is a "political metal" at this time..........WHAT SHOULD IT'S REAL VALUE BE PER OUNCE ???

Surely not US$290 per ounce..................

Ps hope I got my figures co

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:32 - ID#398105)
mozel..................The Great Experiment............

I used to think that Communism was The Great Experiment.......that feel in a heap !

So, we have another one................any takers !!!!!!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:35 - ID#255284)
just a country boy, me...

mozel: you're being just a tad too oblique. I canna understand you, surely you're not suggesting,  la LaRouche, that London is the centre of evil terrorist activity?
If Haggis wants you to swallow some "Draino" as a nation, well, he 's not alone. It's a point I've made here before, perhaps before you joined us, whatever else, for good or evil, for right or wrong, for better or worse, there is only one nation one earth that is mocked, lambasted, villified, castigated, envied, despised, loathed and hated by all others. Even when you got nothing to do with's indonesia collapse, like the Tokyo Earthquake c 1920, like the war in NAM ( NZ was there ) ....ONE county gets blamed... Guess what, it ain't Scotland...and it ain't Canada. Life can be a bugger, huh?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:37 - ID#419147)
the article
Modern Politics - Or - Forward To The Middle Ages

Take a straight look at what goes for being "modern" politics in today's English- speaking world, and then seek a comparison with any known epoch when a similar political situation existed. You will find that the one that best fits the bill is the politics of the Middle Ages - before the year 1200 AD.

Back then, in the Middle Ages, there were many individual men and women whose lives had been literally taken over by others, and made the means of the economic existence of these others. The political name for those individuals was "SERFS". Today, the income- paying taxpayer serves the same political function - that of a "modern" Serf.

Then there were, and are, the "Others!" Those individuals who have made the lives of the Serfs the means of their own economic existence. Today, they are not Aristocrats or Nobles. Today, these "Others" are politicians, their dependent bureaucrats, and all those who accept government "largesse" by voting for a living.

A Serf has no primary right to keep what he or she has worked for. The reason is distinctly political. The reason for this situation is that the Serfs' production belongs to the "Others." Politically, laws have been
enacted to ensure that a part, often a large part, of what the "modern" income- taxpaying Serf has produced is intercepted before the Serf has laid eyes or even hands upon it. The money goes straight to the welfare

The politically inferior status of the modern Serf is exemplified in modern laws which make it a criminal offence to hide what has been worked for. There is no difference between this and the political situation in the Middle Ages. Back then, miscreant Serfs faced the penalties of loss of "freedom" and the confiscation of what limited economic goods they possessed. If the Serf tried to escape the jurisdiction of one Lord for another, they risked the immediate return to their original Lord for punishment if discovered.

Today, international agreements between taxation authorities and extradition laws accomplish exactly the same purpose. In the Middle Ages, a "runaway" Serf had a fair chance of escaping detection, and many did.
Not many escape detection today.

The Solution? Forward, Once Again, To The Middle Ages "City air makes free!"

This was the clarion call that rolled across Western Europe around the year 1200.

At that time, small walled cities were beginning to establish themselves. Anyone from the surrounding area who managed to get inside the city gates and then live honestly and productively for a year and a day could
become a citizen. Having become a citizen, the individual was then free!

How did the cities get away with it? Simple, they bribed the Nobles. They offered, in return for city charters ( a smaller form of Constitution ) , to voluntarily tax themselves and then hand over to the Nobles the agreed
amount. These city taxes were paid by the city as a "City Corporation". The cities became the Middle Ages

"Free Enterprise Zones".

There was another benefit for those who achieved citizenship of a city. Each citizen carried a passport, which meant that if they were caught outside the city walls, they had to be returned. If they were not turned, the city withheld the agreed upon taxes, until they were returned. In sum, as a citizen, a dweller inside a city was outside the jurisdiction of Serfdom! As a citizen, the city dweller was free from the marauding Nobles.

A Good Reason To Revive "Modern" Cities

What is sorely needed right across the entire Western world, and especially in the English- speaking World, is a clear call for a return to a political form of Free Enterprise Zones. Areas inside each English- speaking nation must be set aside and, once set aside, the old political rules which enabled Freedom in the real sense to radiate outward across the areas where Serfdom existed will again have a chance.

Every individual inside the Free Enterprise Cities must have a passport. If "taken" on the outside ( for whatever reason ) they are promptly to be returned to their city. Once there, the "Outsiders" can make their
representations to the courts of the city as to the crime. If the act is indeed criminal and the evidence is accepted by the free city courts, the required sanctions follow. But if the evidence is not accepted, the citizen remains free.

A citizen pays no taxes to the "Outside". The City corporation pays an annual sum to the Rulers on the "Outside". The Rulers save the time and expense of extorting taxes from the citizens. Only the city itself is
allowed to lay a tax - a gate tax on goods entering and leaving the city. The city has its own money. Citizens can, but are not required to accept the money in use on the "Outside".

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:39 - ID#419147)
the privateer...
The privateer Op/Ed pages and Gold pages might be of interest in general as well. http://www.the-

John Disney__A
(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:39 - ID#24135)
Cricket is fun
for Winston

Look winston - what can I say - Im not really a RSA salesman.

RSA stocks are cheap - NA stocks are overpriced by a HUGE

amount. Please try looking up my earlier posts - I want to watch

cricket and Jonty Rhodes.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:43 - ID#398105)
mozel..........I an't any lawyer.........but a mere humble Gold Geologist !!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:47 - ID#398105)
moxel...LBMA.......When they have got you by the balls, your heart and mind will follow!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:47 - ID#153102)
In 1066 there were freemen in England. This article seems to be tantamount to disinformation.
And if it really is a good idea why is it only proposed for English speaking countries ?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:50 - ID#228283)
Answer True or False:
Rule: Refer to Wall Street thinking.

Nothing is better than something - - - -

Paper is better than gold - - -

The more you OWE the richer you are - - -

Debts are better than credit - - -

Spending is better than saving - - -

The bigger the debt , the greater the wealth - - -

Debtors forclose on creditors - - -

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:52 - ID#255284)
cricket a GOLDen sport...
Jonty de man, look at him go.

mozel, case in point, and NOT a small one. Your sports. Every wonderend why america does not play team sport with with rest of the world? Look at your national game, it is exclusive. The irony of your "world Series" falls not on deaf ears in the 120+ nations that play soccer to an International level, nor in the score of nations who play our games, rugby and cricket. Every year our sports channels cover games played by our national team sports all over the world.

just a thought about parachialism... back to the farm,,, and the cows farting on the hillside...and to watch the most excellent game of cricket played by S Africa and Australia..

(Fri Jan 23 1998 03:54 - ID#252127)

News on Lihir Gold

(Fri Jan 23 1998 04:00 - ID#26793)
Something up with Amax Gold

(Fri Jan 23 1998 04:09 - ID#26793)
Societe Generale sets aside for Asian losses.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 04:11 - ID#358318)
Gold News)(

European gold market opens

(Fri Jan 23 1998 04:13 - ID#153102)
I carry no water for LaRouche.
I know the Bar Association came from England and it has proved a curse to the people of America.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 04:14 - ID#26793)
Indonesia grinds to a halt.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 04:16 - ID#358318)
Gold Bottom?
"Technically, it looks like we are forming a bottom"

European gold market opens

(Fri Jan 23 1998 04:26 - ID#284255)
Bankrupt Co's
01- 22- 98 Number of Bankrupt Firms Likely to Reach 53,000

Yielding to the IMF- induced high market interest rates and low economic growth, a total of 53,000 companies in the country are expected to go belly- up this year, the Korea Institute of Finance ( KIF ) said yesterday.

The anticipating number of bankrupt companies in 1998 represents over three times the comparable figure recorded in 1997 and about 10 times that in early 1990s.

According to the KIF, the Korean economy is presumed to have expanded 6 percent last year with the nationwide dishonored bill ratio reaching a record high of 0.3 percent.

The 0.3 percent defaulted bill ratio means that 1,414 companies went bankrupt every month, bringing the total number of insolvent companies to 17,000 last year.

In the meantime, the KIF forecast that the Korean economy will see an annual growth of 0.7 percent this year, falling short of the 1- 2 percent growth suggested by the IMF, and market interest rates will reach around 20 percent.

If the national economy grows 2 percent in 1998, the dishonored bill ratio will stand at 0.67 percent with the averaged number of bankrupt companies reaching 4,165 a month, it predicted.

In case of the 1 percent economic growth, the averaged number of insolvent companies is likely to come to 4,293 every month, it said.

Should the Korean economy shows a zero percent expansion this year, the nationwide dishonored bill ratio will stand at 0.78 percent with the number of business failures reaching 4,422 a month, according to the KIF forecast.

If the nation's economic growth reaches a mere 0.7 percent in 1998 as the KIF earlier predicted, accordingly, the defaulted bill ratio will come to 0.75 percent with market interest rates soaring to 20 percent, the institute predicted.

The defaulted bill ratio indicates that 4,300 companies in the country will go belly- up every month, bringing the total number of business failures to 53,000 in 1998, a 3.1- fold over the comparable figure in 1997. ( LKS )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 04:28 - ID#26793)
Clinton allegations could lead to dollar plunge

(Fri Jan 23 1998 04:48 - ID#153102)
LBMA & What Is Money
What is Money ? Why, money is what everybody thinks it is. Anything can be money. Wampum was money among some American Indian tribes. Indigo was money in South Carolina for a time. Tobacco was money in Virginia for a while. Gold & silvver coin can be money. Paper is money. Plastic can be money. I went to the casino in Mississippi not too long ago. Inside the casino there was another money. I changed money when I went in and again when I went out. It was like going to another country. Someone could conceivably make some casino money at home and take it with them and save the trouble of changing money.

But are there differences among these monies ? There is this difference. There is only one honest money which in American law is called "lawful money" because the law among equals upholds honesty and never knowingly rewards dishonesty. So, honest money is for exchange and accounts among those of equal rights at law. Gold & silver coin are potentially honest money because of the nature of the metals. Constant weight. Constant purity. If the men in the mint are honest, the coins are honest.

So what kind of men are these who say there is no need for gold and silver coins to be used as money ? And what is their intention ? Can it be an honest intention and fit for men who would have equal rights at law ?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 04:57 - ID#228283)
@ mozel.....IMHO

young Central Bankers seem to believe that all of the answers to my previously posted quiz are TRUE. They seem to want everyone to sell gold/buy wampum.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 05:19 - ID#364147)
@ Cape Breton
Mornin all 'Kitco Junkies'.......

(Fri Jan 23 1998 05:21 - ID#228283)

since none wish to debate it's use as money..I bid you all Godspeed from the chilly Midwest.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 05:27 - ID#153102)
Why do we call them bankers ?
They are just bureaucrats in the Department of Credit.
There is not even any connection between the gold and the credit anymore.

They have nothing in their vaults but debt.
They issue and loan debt.
But they call it credit.

We need new words. These old words like bank and capital and debt and credit do not seem to make sense any more.

If I loan you $1, you think you owe me something. But, how can you owe me debt ? Debt is less than nothing.

Something is wrong with the dictionary.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 05:37 - ID#288295)
Winston Re: DROOY

There is a very good article on DROOY in the Nov 97 issue of Gold Newsletter, which is available in the newsletter section at

( you may have to subscribe electronically to
access the archives, but is well- worth the
money IMHO. ) I posted the earnings forecast for DROOY from this article into the buy- and- hold message board of

some time ago.

Some detailed company information on Durban Roodeport Deep is available in the company section of

There is frequently information on SA gold mining companies at

(Fri Jan 23 1998 05:40 - ID#364147)
Earl----James--------Refer(luv that name)--------HAGGIS
Earl: Yer not supposed to 'wonder' bout those things ( just pay yer damn taxes and shut- up ) ...James ( 00:54 ) I liked parts of what ya had ta say,even if ya had ta take some heat over em..Refer ( 1:54 ) - Good question!....HAGGIS damn it: James is NOT a god damn YANK ( Try Canuck and you'll hit the nail on the head!! )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 05:50 - ID#228283)
@ mozel...

We call them bankers because they "bank" on the average Joe 6pack to continue being ignorant to what is reality. Right now, in my "neighborhood" gold and silver are things to wear on your earlobes. The yuppies of this country have had things too good for a long time. The mindset is completely illogical because of what is beaten into their heads by the likes of CNN and U.S.A. Today.. absolute mindless drivvel.
Sorry... I get carried away, but it seems as though there is no way to get through to these people.
Any helpful hints would be appreciated.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 05:57 - ID#364147)
With all due respect~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Irregardless of what Bart said about too much Clinton- talk on this forum,yer in a 'dream world' if you don't think this has the POTENTIAL to really move the currency- gold markets......

(Fri Jan 23 1998 06:00 - ID#364147)
Feb. Gold + the pope
Feb. Gold up 1.30 @ 292.60....the pope has screwed alot more people than Billy- Bob Clinton~~~~~

(Fri Jan 23 1998 06:03 - ID#364147)
The Canadian RUPIAH

(Fri Jan 23 1998 06:05 - ID#377196)
South African Mines turn in good performance...
Anglo mines beat the poor gold price

David McKay

GOLD mines in the Anglogold stable continued to resist the effects of
the poor gold price, posting "good" results for the December quarter,
but warning that Freegold mine was to throttle back output by a third
during the year.

The five mines - Elandsrand, Freegold, Vaal Reefs, Western Deep Levels
and Ergo - yesterday reported a 16% increase in available profit to

Analysts said the group's hedging strategy had again come to its aid
with average gold revenue per kilogram sold increasing 9% to R57 677 on
average, well above the spot price which had been under R46 000/kg.

Nonetheless, Anglogold's mines had put in another stable operational
performance with unit cash costs coming in 7% lower to $268/oz.

The mines were edging towards an aggregate cash cost goal of $250/oz - a
level it has deemed internationally competitive. Combined gold
production at the five mines rose 4% to 57,5 tons in the quarter.

The group said the results proved deep level mining could make money.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 06:06 - ID#364147)
More Canadian RUPIAH 'stuff'

(Fri Jan 23 1998 06:09 - ID#364147)
Re-my inability to post @ Kitco @ many times of the day
What do you get when you put two Canadian ISP's together- - answer= NOTHIN

(Fri Jan 23 1998 06:27 - ID#377196)
Harmony Gold Mining Ltd...
Yesterday, Harmony Gold Mining turned in a modest profit

for the last quarter, and said they expected improved results

for the next quarter.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 06:44 - ID#248180)
@ Kitco Subject matter - Printin Clinton, Slick Willie, Sling it - it won't stick to me
Bart, with respect and humble gratitude for the provision of this excellent site. This site is made up of the most interesting, knowledgeable, intelligent, and insightful bunch of scholars, miners, investors, traders and general "looney tunes" that one could assemble.
Discussion about the President of the United States of America, Billy Jim Bob Clinton and his thinking "wand" ( he don't use his mind ) is most important to the world economy and PM prices.
Afterall this is the man, Pres. Clinton that just a few weeks ago said that the Asia economic crisis was "just a glich in the road." His credibility has disapeared, gone forever. His repeated marital infidelities present him in an untenable situation. We all now ask, that if he can so frequently deceive his family how can he present any TRUTHS to his nation and the world that his nation would like to lead. The disorder of Bill Clinton makes the new world order a joke. Might I say who ever wanted a new world order? Bill Clinton is a liability to the USA and the world. He must be dumped and quickly. Who will now believe him when he says "we come in peace", "our economy is stable" etc, etc

John Disney__A
(Fri Jan 23 1998 06:45 - ID#24135)
Cricket is GREAT
For Salty

There's a turkish expression that I like a lot and it

goes like this -

Australia was rocking a cradle all evening and then

they found out that it didnt have a baby in it.

What a match - RSA's not a bad side, hey. That would

eaily be one of the most exciting sports events I've

even SEEN in my life.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 06:49 - ID#432169)
Germany France, Italy - Hoarding Gold
Interesting ...see full text at SI: 3237296

(Fri Jan 23 1998 06:52 - ID#432169)'ll
OK .... I'll try this .... Germany, France and Italy - hoarding gold ... got to URL above for more details ..... if this does not work, the article is posted on the Gold Monitor Thread on SI today.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 06:53 - ID#284255)
Reading back
I presume you refer to "Global Intelligence Updates "
I shall stop reposting them then.

I don't want to take sides.
I merely reposted someone else's opinion.
I'd much rather try to pre- guess charts,
Than to try and delve into foreign policy's.
So many conflicting reports,
Are deluging the press at the moment.

The 'boys' were active yesterday.
There were some huge buys instigated.
Right at the opportune moments.
Support, where support was necessary.
These guys want an orderly market,
And their performance improves,
With each occasion.

They perform well without the PPT.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 06:54 - ID#30116)
John Disney__A
John Disney__A - - Any thoughts as to why the apparent divergence between the S.A. gold stocks and N.A. gold stocks? My N.A. issues seem to go down or nowhere while the S.A.s seem to be moving up. Come to think off it, I am probably hallucinating...


(Fri Jan 23 1998 07:19 - ID#302251)

Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 19:36
Spunky ( @Ziva ) ID#286262:
I agree that most Americans would change their attitudes about Arabs and
Persians if they could spend time in their countries. I experienced the
hospitality and safety of their cultures first hand in the oil business. I sat
in the sand with them around the campfire drinking chi.

The depictions and characterizations of them by our media is testament to
Bolshevik media control and the evils of Talmudic and Zionist propaganda.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

I traveled all around the world, all people are wonderful.
( except, I met some lousy drivers in Quebec,
they often passed me on blind corners ) .

What Hitler did, is no different than what we did
in The Civil- War, Vietnam, Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. etc. etc.
What the Israelis did in Dir- Yassin, Sabra & Shatila, etc. etc. etc.
What the Arab terrorists did for 50 years, etc. etc etc.
just the numbers are different.

It is religions and nationalistic leaders who are the source of most conflicts.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Instead of blaming the Jews, blame the ETs,
they invented religions to keep all of us in constant conflict,
so that they can continue their genetic experiments on us ( abductions ) .

And once we finish killing each other,

BTW, I believe that there is GOD.
Let me correct myself:
I verified that there is GOD,
and he is above us and the ETs.


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 18:32
Poorboys ( Big@Time@In@Canada ) ID#224149:
Shlomo - I agree ......The Media has no Credibility.......
Ziva- - - - - You Know too- - - - Toooo- - - Much

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Dear Poorboys,

It is very simple, all you need is time,

My Kitcoits are too busy making money with GOLD,
so I am scanning the world for them
to find information which is related to GOLD.


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 19:42
Haggis__A ( Spanky and Ziva ............. sorry let me re- phrase
that....... ) ID#398105:

Do you think most people would change their minds concerning
if Americans took their heads out of the sand ...........????
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

We Americans can do nothing.
Whoever control TV, controls America.

All of us remember Waco, and we are scared,
because we got the massage.


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 12:48
Dave in CO ( @ ) ID#215211:

Ziva: I heard the theory on Shortwave a couple of years ago. Did the FBI
catch women smuggling the vials?

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
according to reliable sources on the Internet.

If you want to find the truth yourself,
start with the Art Bell Web Page:>

BTW, Art has commercials to buy GOLD every night.

choose a guest on subject you are interested at:>

and proceed to the guests home page.
The guest will have links to other places......

I collected already thousands of URLs
in my library.

Many websites have been created by the Intelligence
in order to fool us.
Many discussion groups have intelligence agents
who are trying to confuse the rest.
I identified a few in the Art Bell Discussion Group
and they were removed.
I identified 3 in this group IMHO.
You can not get rid of them in any group,
as they just change name and return.
As long as we try to concentrate on subjects around GOLD
They can not do too much damage.
When you start to see personal attacks,
you will understand what I mean.


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 12:42
RLM ( Ziva- Art Bell? ) ID#402191:

Just found your post on Art Bell. Do you know where he broadcasts from
so I can contact them to see if he is on in my locality?

Also, where are the "archives" you mentioned?

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

He is broadcasting on over 500 stations, 5 hours daily.
choose one station next to you here:

This is his website:


and much more:

The best testimony for Art Bell information
is that there is an organization
who is assassinating Art Bells guests,
and they burned the house of David Oats.
Recently, two other guests have been radiated with laser beams,
and both of them developed malignant cancer on their right cheeks.

One of them died yesterday. bin/WebX?14@@.ee6c827/16

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Preacher ( Ziva, Mideast War, and Clinton ) ID#225273:
Dear Ziva,

Thank you for the recount. It's hard for me to imagine that China and the
Arabs can unleash the military power that would be any match for the
USA, Israel, and Europe working in concert.

Is it your perspective that China and the Arabs will be able to exert
military power sufficient to challenge the other alliance, or do you believe
that Arabia is using loose U.S. immigration rules to import biological and
other weapons into the country to strike at soft targets from within?

As for Clinton, I guess he figured if Martin Luther King could act that
way and get a national holiday named after him, "then I can too."

The Preacher

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

In WW3 no one needs "Military Power".
If you think that Saddam Hussein is stupid,
you better think again,
try to remember how many US Presidents he has lasted.

Reading the information from around the world,
it is inconceivable to me that he does not have
his terrorists in every major western city right now.
After all it is the only insurance he has.
And we know it too.

So do not pay attention to whatever you hear from politicians,
we can not afford to kill him.

Talking about killing Saddam,
read the Israeli Press on the Internet.
Israel has some of the best websites in the world,
( and I am not saying that just because I am Jewish ) .
Last year,
Israel's largest daily newspaper: 'Yediot Aharonot',
printed a story about a group of Rabbis
who tried to kill Saddam using 'Remote Influencing',
during the Gulf War.
Unfortunately the attempt had backfired,
and the son of one of the rabbis died.

'Remote Influencing' is an extension of 'Remote Viewing'.
I did notice last year that in this group,
there are some disinformation agents,
who tried to convince you that
there is no such a thing as 'Remote Viewing'.
Every one of you can find the truth alone,





Listen to the beginning of the second hour.
Click on: Jan- 21- 1998

If you want to go to his home- page:






The Clintons Zipper Show is a clear diversion from the Middle East problem.

Do not let them fool you !
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

The price of gold will be effected DRAMATICALLY
by events in the Middle East VERY SOON,

The whole world is talking about Clinton Zipper right now,
let us talk about GOLD !



I will not see you for a while,
going Internet.
I promise to read all your comments when I return.

I was asked if Ziva has meaning.
Ziva means: Light, or Radiation of Light, in modern Hebrew.
It is used mostly in poetry.

I named my great grand daughter, Ziva,
after reading it in a book of my favorite Israeli writer
Nobel Laureate Yosef Agnon:

Agnon never mentioned a single word about UFOs.


(Fri Jan 23 1998 07:23 - ID#403335)

Your post from 21:41 yesterday concerning the formation of a triangle could prove to be a good call. Given that VIX is suggesting a decline ( short term indicator ) , and the insiders have shifted to the buy side ( intermediate term indicator ) , we could soon see an Elliott E of 4, with a final thrust to new highs as the Oldman is expecting. If so that fifth wave out of this triangle could be a sight to behold!

John Disney__A
(Fri Jan 23 1998 07:33 - ID#24135)
Im sorry about that Panda
For Panda

You are asking the wrong man - ever since I came on this

site Ive been saying that RSA stocks are cheap and NA stocks

are expensive. This is not my opinion - this is just numbers.

One guy in the group says that I am saying this because of

"vested self interest" - he says things like that because

he hasnt grown up yet and is not fully literate. I live in RSA

but my dough doesnt live here. If I want to I can buy NA

stocks but Id keep cash if that was my only option. I buy

RSA golds and plats, then Aussie gold juniors - I dont touch

NA stocks.

I dont CARE if people buy RSA stocks or not. I get nothing

either way. I dont want to write a newsletter. Im in this

group and I try to participate as best I can ( if its not too

much work ) .

I hope for your sake that your NA mines go up, BUT if

they do, I THINK that RSA mines will go up faster. One

man's opinion.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 07:36 - ID#248180)
@ Ziva
Is your husband aware that he is going on vacation with you?
Could you please take Bill, Hillary and the Harem with you and leave them where there is no phone, no e- mail or www.
Ziva - The "Z" surely stands for "ZEST" Have a nice time.
Don't worry should Billy Clinton quit or get sacked; the New World Order's leader maybe Boozing Boris ( the capitalist ) Yeltsin, or the Economically Transparent Suharto's. They might at least be more credible or as credible. As a matter of fact Boris Yeltsin might be a stronger capitalist than the socialist Slick Willie.
Buy plenty of gold on your vacation.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 07:54 - ID#284255)
Metals and equities seem poised to move - which way?
That triangle is very pronounced.
Many stocks look poised to go either way.
Perhaps this Clinton psychosis will push them over the edge.

The SPH8 seems a little weak and directionless.
Many of the top blue chips seem to be at the top of their cycles.
They would naturally turn down here.
Most of the indices seem to be in an expanding wedge,
And have just bounced off their resistance.
Ready to head down.

Seems like either way,
The move will turn out to be explosive.

I'm sure the boys will try to turn it up.
They sure don't want the alternative.
They want another run at the gravy train,
Before they depart.

But the general concensus,
Seems to want out.
The financial morrass is sinking.
They only need to read the tabloids.

Seems like it's only the boys in the pits,
And the MF's who are keeping this ship afloat.

Is Clinton being exposed?
As the scapegoat - the fall guy?
To tank the US$ and markets.
GO GOLD!!!!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 07:56 - ID#289357)

I tried to post before, but it disappeared.....

One reason NA stocks may be lagging SA stocks is the cost of their gold reserves;

For example,

A NA gold miner -

ABX cost of reserves = total market cap in US$ divided by total ounces of gold reserves or about ( if my stats are correct ) $130/oz of reserves

vs. a SA gold miner -

DROOY cost of reserves = $2.38/oz of reserves

Go figure.....Even if one argues about the quality and accuracy of the reserve estimates, there is a very large difference in the way these companies are valued, in favor of the SA gold miners.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:01 - ID#258427)
@Dollar off
US$ off today in Far East and Europe ... could be a good day for PM's, Huh...go gold...

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:03 - ID#339320)
At last, the final definitive piece to the gold-oil puzzle, explains ALL.

Thanks for the response. It seems that this tidbit of
information went over everyones head last night,
judging by the lack of response. I for one am very glad
to ( at last ) see the absolute proof to the missing link
between gold....oil.....and the now simple self evident
reasons as to why the gold and fiat markets are in their
present states. THAT contact between the U.S. gov
and OPEC *IS* the the smoking gun....for all to see.
Any idiot can now put the rest of the pieces together from

There is no option....physical, physical, physical, etc,
etc. PERIOD. And even with this, you will become
an outlaw contrabandist, as physical gold posession
SURELY will be permitted only by the goverment, to
purchase oil. I see no other option... that is...for as
long as the goverment can maintain control over their
subjects. When they cant, gold will re- establish itself
in its rightful the only money ( not currency )
known, with paper or computer bytes as exvidence of

Last nights post again:
Date: Thu Jan 22 1998 18:51
Cmax ( ANOTHER/GOLD/OIL ) ID#339320:

For all you "doubting Thomas':

" Shortly after the gold window was closed in August 1971, OPEC called an emergency meeting with U.S. and other nations' finance ministers in Beirut. The result of the meeting was the Beirut Resolution titled XXI. 122. It called for adjustments to OPEC's crude oil pricing whenever the dollar had been devalued ( against gold, obviously ) .....The reason this resolution was passed within weeks after the dollar was no longer
backed by gold should be obvious."

THAT, Ladies and Gentlemen, is your definitive link between gold and oil, the link that ANOTHER has been telling everyone about. With this tidbit of information, EVERYTHING else that ANOTHER has said falls perfectly in place. Wake up all you doubters, and use your brain a little.
ANOTHER has given you insights that probably would not have been discovered until it was too late...... and a few pathetic souls even went out of their way to insult and jeer him.
I say get your heads out of your arses, and look around.
And hope that our friendly Chinaman decides to post again.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:10 - ID#238422)
To Ziva From Oris-The Agent
Ziva, you right, you never mentioned UFO.
But your lovely ART BELL is quit a collection,
to tell the truth...

Anyway, have a nice vacation.

Come back.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:11 - ID#258427)
@CMAX and Another
That's all well and good ( I guess ) , but what I want to know iw WHEN is the price of Gold gonna reflect this stuff BY GOING UP??????????

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:12 - ID#284255)
Avid chatter
Japanese cut their US assets weighting to 60% from 65% of foreign assets

Japanese exposure to US stocks more then 250,000 bln yen, down 5.4% in comparison to august; since then the market is flat; should the yen become more attractive more might be sold

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:13 - ID#238422)

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:24 - ID#426220)


ORACLE has discovered yet another investment vehicle, whereby the hapless Asians might have SAVED EVEN MORE of their destroyed wealth - IN FACT CONSIDERABLY MORE!: SILVER.

The report shows charts depicting the price of SILVER in the five
beleaguered currencies during the last six months: Thailand's baht, Indonesia's rupiah, Malaysia's ringgit, Philippines' peso and South Korea's won. RESULTS ARE ASTOUNDING!

Whereas GOLD was a bonanza for Asians, SILVER was indeed a TREASURE- HOUSE. Even the most blind and ardent adherent to paper money is forced to concede THE VISUAL PROOF OF THE SILVER SAVIOR.

To read the report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:25 - ID#93232)
I will be posting at a rate of once every 45 days...if that.
I have reviewed my previous posts, and I have discovered that I have nothing to add on the topic of few "golden thoughts" have already been authored on Kitco. Bart, thanks for handing my life back to me...I know I needed a spanking. Thank you. But if it's o.k., I may lurk a while longer,

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:26 - ID#238422)
John Disney

John, please, tell me you don't think
I'm an agent. I know for sure you're not.
I need your support at this difficult time...

Regarding Mongolian Beef:

I don't know exact recipe. What I see on the
plate is beef ( in small strips ) , lots of onion,
hot fried peppers and rice, also some Chinese
spices, like usual. Will try to find Chinese
cookbook and get and exact recipe...

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:29 - ID#238422)
When price of oil starts going up....

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:33 - ID#238422)
I kind of feel the same...

Mike Sheller
(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:38 - ID#347447)
oris (where's the Beef?)
I will email my close contacts in Shanghai immediately and see if I can procure for you ( and all Kitcoites, of course ) an authentic recipe for Mongolian Beef ( to be washed down with copious quantities of "precious" Mao Tai, perhaps the most offensive distillation on the face of this earth.. As Attila's Mom used to say, "It takes a child to raze a vilage!" Oh, yes, and also "gold."

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:40 - ID#26793)
Clinton & the dollar. Important repost

(Fri Jan 23 1998 08:49 - ID#238422)
Mike Sheller
Mike, you are a good man. I regret we had a little
dispute some time ago. As I usually say - I was
drunk and do not remember what happened...

Thanks for your help.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 09:20 - ID#228100)
Nothing to add regarding gold? That doesn't seem to stop most of the people from posting to this site!

Have you seen Hillary Clinton's new book: "It Takes a Village to Satisfy My Husband."?

Spud Master
(Fri Jan 23 1998 09:25 - ID#273112)
@themissinglink - thank you for posting these each day!!
( this is a repost from 'themissinglink' - oh, what liars, thieves and con- artists infest our government. I can only think of those two lines, scribbled in red on Colonel Kurtz' book in the movie "Apocalypse Now" ) .

) ) ) 01/21/1998 $5,501,520,207,927.51

) ) ) 01/02/1998 $5,476,836,236,537.09

) ) ) $24.7 Billion in 21 days. Annualized to $429 Billion.
) ) ) Balanced budget, Ha! Wait until the market drops and
) ) ) capital gains taxes turn into capital loss write off. We, the ) ) ) connected world community, are collectively screwed.
) ) ) No joy in this revelation.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 09:25 - ID#31868)
If we had honest money, gold and silver, dishonest leaders and their actions would not effect the value of the money we all utilize to provide what little stability and safety any human can provide for family and friends in this life time.

To think that a President, me, you and our actions should or could effect another's life because of an act of stupidy, infidelity, etc., and that that act would effect the value of the populace's money is ludicrous.

Honest money, gold and silver, provides a level of insulation for each member of society so as not to put them in a position of having to pay for the stupidities/crimes, etc. of someone else.

Of course IMHO

(Fri Jan 23 1998 09:37 - ID#31868)
STUDIO_R I read your post of a few minutes ago, do not be so tough on yourself my friend. A shot of gulp, Cuervo Gold at ya. Now, where was I?

oh yeah...

Get Camdesuss!!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 09:59 - ID#284255) Quotes
WARNING: In order to fully appreciate today's market report, it should be read while humming silently "Looking for Love in All The Wrong Places"

MARKET UPDATE ( 01/22/98 ) AM- - - - - Gold continued its uptrend this morning against the back drop of the stubborn, recalcitrant problems in Asia and the mounting backlash to the Clinton sex scandal in Washington. Anybody who watched the president's deft fox trot away from the questions posed by PBS last night can't help but wonder what else has been going on at the White House ( with the red light ) . We will let the mainstream press chase this latest episode of "Sex, Lies and Audiotape" and stick to the financial implications of the latest Clinton mess. For weeks rumors have been circulating that Robert Rubin's wife is sick and tired of the Washington scene and would like to return to the more "homey" confines of New York and Wall Street. To some observers such ruminations underscore just how bad things have gotten in Washington. What it all means to markets in the long run is anybody's guess but one thing's for certain: THE IMF REFUNDING GOING BEFORE CONGRESS CAN BE CONSIDERED DOA. What that means in a nutshell is a potential market meltdown as the New York banks go begging for further bailouts. Two technical indicators of significance developed today - - gold crossed the 50 day moving average to the upside and COMEX stocks continued their slide. We are watching for an increase in the open interest which would indicate fresh long positions with their eye on taking delivery of the metal. So far open interest has been dropping indicating short covering. And that 's what most of the reports on gold are citing this AM as the reason for gold's strong showing. We know for a fact that many of the junior gold mining companies that were holding short positions are looking to cover but we don't know what price will trigger their stops. An interesting quote ( paraphrased ) from Anglo Gold's Kelvin Williams and then I've got to go ( the messages are piling up this morning ) : "...while gold prices were falling in 1997, new records were being set for physical offtake of gold...but against this backdrop of record gold offtake in 1997, the industry faced a 'malign paradox' between the physical market and the virtual market. In the virtual market, this healthy physical market is discounted entirely by a suicidal paper market, convinced that the sky is about to fall. Resolving this paradox would turn on the role of central bankers, particularly the need for clarity about their position vis a vis the gold market." Sounds like another individual who reads this daily report. The word is circulating that the central banks are out of the gold market for the time being and the mining companies are covering - - the malign paradox appears about to be resolved in higher prices. And so I leave you quietly humming "I'm looking for love in all the wrong places....Looking for love in too many faces......Looking for love.....Looking for love......" Ohhhh boy...........

(Fri Jan 23 1998 09:59 - ID#287207)
I think I will follow STUDIO.R and disappear for a while as well. I have already said all I have to say about gold and Clinton's problems ( funny I don't feel his pain ) will dominate the news and views for months anyway. I may make a return visit sooner if Flag Resources has discovered Sudbury #2.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:05 - ID#41229)
So you have the outlook that there is nothing that we maybe do to prepare for this event. If gov. wants gold, lets do silver, platinum or palladium. All can not be lost, must be some way to Hedge. Unless you timely believe we truely are at the end of times.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:10 - ID#23398)

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:17 - ID#23398)
Canadian Banks
Latest on Cnd banks TD UP $8.45 NATIONAL BANK = +$4.30 CIBC +$5.35

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:21 - ID#284255)
What's going on?
Bonds down - US$ down.
Currency's and bonds jumping wildly.
And yet gold stays still?

Lots of large numbers bid/ask going through tonight.
Down volume increasing faster than up volume.

Who wants out?

The battle continues.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:22 - ID#254269)

Bart, thanks for a great forum. As a relevant newbie on this forum, I have ( I think ) learnt a lot from the various contributors in the time I have been posting and lurking prior to that. However, as a newbie, it is sometimes difficult to make a meaningful contribution directly about gold, because newbies just don't know enough about all of the gold markets
idiosyncracies. I will certainly try to do my part to stay close to the topic
or very closely related items. Once again, thanks for a great forum and thanks to those who have tried to educate me about some of these items.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:24 - ID#197289)
John Disney
John - Don't let the slings and arrows get to you.

Some people go through life trying to pull down others - must be a complex of some sort. Sad way to live a life. Best to let them drift away to bite others.

Anyway I'm a Canadian and can put 20% of my RRSP stock plan in foreign issues. I was wondering about the dividend return of RSA stocks. Would you know what percentage of earnings are returned as dividends for Drooy or Deep Durban? Thanks.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:31 - ID#254269)
WSJ Articles; In today's print edition, there are several articles;

1. POTUS on Wall Street, article about Democrats fundraising in New York.
2. Op- ed by Paul Gigot re Character and you know who.
3. Even Houdini, another op- ed piece onEditorial page.
4. Indonesia nears gridlock as crisis deepens, talk of debt moratorium grows ( Page A11 ) .

Numbers 1,2,3 are all on Editorial page A16.
All seem to be very good reads.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:43 - ID#372344)
@ South African .....Shares Good Moves?
Alot of posters here have commented on how much better the SA Shares are doing than the NA, well let us at the reality of the situation , and
I shall use the 2 Shares most often mentioned here ABX and DROOY.

ABX High for last year $28.00 Low $ 15.00 = - 45% ?

DROOY High for last year $9 1/4 Low $ 1 7/16 = - 80%

Which investment held it's value?

I think you get the picture the SA Shares fell far greater double
as much as the NA that is one reason why they are just now climbing back a bit , but still a long way from their comparetive percentages,
which I might add has been my observation historically.
In addtion, it has also been my observation that the SA Shares have always lead the NA Shares at the start of a new Gold Bull,

Also the NA Shares have always sold for much higher multiples
than the SA Shares once the Gold Bull is underway, every time.


(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:44 - ID#254269)
Character; Three quotes from the Paul Gigot article in WSJ,

1. "We said that charcter didn't matter ( talking about you know who ) ,
but now we discover it may be the only thing that does matter".

2. "But about B.C. , we have learned to wait for the other stiletto heel to drop".

3. "All of which means that the Clinton presidency as we've known it
is over "

Sorry, I cannot reproduce the whole article.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:47 - ID#364147)
Studio.R............................Don't leave me----------------

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:49 - ID#368244)
Here we go

look out gold up 6.20

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:49 - ID#254269)
Indonesia; who says it's all "fixed" ?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:51 - ID#225283)
S. A. this just in...

Just got off the phone with my gold stock manager in London....He has just returned from South Africa where he met with all major producers in South Africa....

Goldfields & Anglo will be closing several mines "forever" if price of gold does not sharply move up within days...once theses mines are shut down they will fill will water and forever be lost.

We could very well see a hugh spike up in gold after this developement...we are talking about 2% of the world gold output.

Congrats to all of you that called the bottom at 278 in Jan we go ...what goes down , must come up!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:51 - ID#427357)


ORACLE has discovered yet another investment vehicle, whereby the hapless Asians might have SAVED EVEN MORE of their destroyed wealth - IN FACT CONSIDERABLY MORE!: SILVER.

The report shows charts depicting the price of SILVER in the five
beleaguered currencies during the last six months: Thailand's baht, Indonesia's rupiah, Malaysia's ringgit, Philippines' peso and South Korea's won. RESULTS ARE ASTOUNDING!

Whereas GOLD was and is a bonanza for Asians, SILVER is indeed a TREASURE- HOUSE. Even the most blind and ardent adherent to paper money is forced to concede THE VISUAL PROOF OF THE SILVER SAVIOR.

To read the report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:53 - ID#256254)
Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 10:49
Isure ( Here we go ) ID#368244:

look out gold up 6.20

Where are you getting this reading for gold? Please give url.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:54 - ID#401460)
GOLD @ what 395?
CNBC shows GOLD +$6.70?

30- Year Bond
5.889 %

10- Year Bond
5.591 %

- 1.22

- .02120

Pound *

Swiss Franc
- 0.0205

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:54 - ID#258427)
Bart...quotes Stuck??
Bart...ebn shows gold up 2.40 ... are we "Stuck" again???

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:56 - ID#364147)
That's APRIL GOLD I believe

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:56 - ID#402148)
AU $300
Feb contact slammed up 9 full dollars and backed off 300 in a matter of seconds.


(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:57 - ID#401460)
CNBC Gold Indicators Bliking/Flashing?
Appears to be a BIG spike up or there is something wrong with their equipment?


(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:57 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Highrise - - Yup, and silver up as much as 22 cents.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:59 - ID#251268)
sure nuf
April 298.50 2min.ago Hallaluja

(Fri Jan 23 1998 10:59 - ID#402148)
It's Not An Equipmnt Failure
April just crossed taped at 298.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:01 - ID#258427)

(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:01 - ID#401460)
XAU 72.62 +3.76

(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:03 - ID#401460)

This must be what they call a POP.
Watch the Bonds and Dollar .


(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:06 - ID#258427)
dOW DOWN 71 and TIC at - 1000

(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:06 - ID#364147)
Gold is soarin!!!..........................finally!
According to CNN ( net version ) April Gold popped first and now Feb. is kickin in....

(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:08 - ID#401460)
"Gold & Gold Stocks have been Poping and there is a little pop today" A little POP i would say. They are talking about Gold.



(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:09 - ID#410194)
The change
Bonds and Gold are running away from each other and the odds are increasing that January the 12th 1998 ( when bonds and Gold reached extremes ) could turn out to be the turning point of the year...and beyond!
Traders and investors who made prudent bets on this scenario as soon as they noticed it have the possibility of making lots of profits! These kinds of rare events is what makes the "hunting" for opportunities in trading so exciting and rewarding! It only takes 2 or 3 of these grand scale happenings in our lifetime to gain more financial freedom!

Today, we also notice lots of money being thrown into tangible assets all accross the commodity board.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:09 - ID#364147)
BillD: Dow now only down 57....XAU up 3.13 and once again kitco is slowin to a crawl ( at least for me )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:22 - ID#401460)
US$ & Bonds

30- Year Bond
5.894 %

10- Year Bond
5.599 %

- 1.52

- .02740

Pound *

Swiss Franc
- 0.0268

"The dollar has broken through important support"
"Gold people are going to Gold for safety"

I think the day is here my friends, the world is awake!

BART! "Will Rubin resign?" the Presidents actions are relevant are they not? JaiBaitGate
Is not funny, it is an embarrassment for the American people.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:37 - ID#285392)
Would someone please explain in laymans terms
Bart when talking of backwardation said "Sell your silver today, buy it back at a future guaranteed lower price". Do we sell physical and buy a future or do we sell now on the expectation that silver will go down and be cheaper at a later date?


(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:38 - ID#258427)
AVID chatter
Avid rumor that Rubin may be quitting ... reason for action in PM's ???

(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:43 - ID#341261)
Why? I'll tell you why.
Another young intern was just spotted heading into the White House!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:51 - ID#224149)
Ted- What a storm up in lake simcoe- - - Gold April close above 298.50 would take away my bearish scenerio and would join the bull camp - - - Away to see the volume - - - Comex- - - - Bart is always super slow on any big moves.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:51 - ID#401460)

As I posted early this AM it appears that markets are going back to more traditional relationships.

XAU +4.35
Gold $297,50

RYO +1/16 big move

Monica not a Witness, she is now a Target of Kenneth Starr.


(Fri Jan 23 1998 11:59 - ID#253389)
Is America up to this?
Avalon - thanks for mentioning the WSJ Editorial re: the Clinton mess. I've taken the liberty to copy two of the paragraphs which emphasize the points every American should be acutely aware of.


But he can know what his partisans will do, or most of them anyway. They will almost undoubtedly make a last- ditch effort to turn this latest scandal as upside down as it has recently turned them. They will deny the facts, they will counterattack, and they will claim according to habit that sexual scandals are unworthy and irrelevant. Even though slandering their opponents and "smelling rats" has redounded against them, as soon as the ringing stops in their ears they will excoriate anyone who dares offer a challenge. Expect it.
But keep in mind that this is not merely a sexual scandal. Nor is it just a matter of legal technicalities along the Kafkaesque lines of a conviction for resisting false arrest. It is, rather, a fundamental question put to the American people, and the power of recent events stems from this rather than from the fact that it comes packaged with sex, lies, and audiotape. Like the Paula Jones case, which many, even among the president's detractors, mistakenly find to be petty, embarrassing, or merely a provocation, the Lewinsky Affair is about the essentials not only of jurisprudence but of governance. Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky are two inconsequential women who, in the manner of democracies, have become gravely consequential. And the heart of both their cases is whether truth can be denied by power. Can the king declare, in the blinding light of midday, that it is night, and can he compel his subjects to accept what he declares?


Clinton and his attitude toward truth, justice and the expectation of an uncaring public are the greatest threats to our republic since its' foundation. The issue is not just Clinton, but rather, the attitude of the American people toward these events. The Jennifer Flowers thing should have been enough - the American people have chosen this path - will they continue down this perilous slope?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:25 - ID#348129)
Blizzard in Montreal - this is WINTER! GOLD: Yaash - Yaash - Yaash

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:27 - ID#401460)
Watergate - the DOW - 40%


John Disney__A
(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:34 - ID#24135)
Anglos results and notes from a revolution
To all

Detailed results for Anglos follows

Elandsrand 0.33R/share versus 0.19 prior Quarter

ERGO 0.32 " versus 0.29 "

Fregold 0.23 " versus 0.51 "

Vaal Reefs 5.04 " versus 3.71 "

Wstn Deeps 2.84 " versus 1.98 "

for those that have the spreadsheet set up in

excel - you can plug this numbers in in $ and

calculate the avg per oz cost of gold for these

mines using a gold price of 305- 310 for the 4th


To Mr zadeek

I think you should discontinue upur association with

the Mining anal- ist you mentioned a while back -

sounds like henry sassifras ??? I forget exactly -

I wasnt paying much attention. Im sorry - He should be

too. He owes everyone an apology for spreading serious


Also to Mr Zadeek

The PW BOTHA trial today in George was adjorned for

30 days. There was a demonstration by about 350

rent a crowd ANC supporters and the paper reported a

handful of elderly right wingers supporting PWBotha.

As usual, the press was much better represented than

either the ANC or the "right wing". If this is to

be the spark that sets off a revolution, I believe

the revolution may be somewhere else altogether.

Maybe a revolution of disguntled TV viewers in some

other country annoyed at having to watch such pointless

and irrelevent crap on their tv screens. ( Just

keeping you in the political picture ) . In future I

will stop reporting this boring political stuff about

RSA unless some outdated "expert" starts sprouting off

silly and misleading stuff.

To Oris

I finished off my first teboulleh today.

DEE- licious - I tried adding a little mustard and some

balsamic vinegar in addition to the other stuff Plus

black pepper and cumin seed. You would have liked the

cricket. I ate and watched. Next stop - shellers beans

and rice.

You say you are an agent?? If you are an agent for

sun glasses or sand shoes I hear the Chinese maybe

looking for one billion pairs of each for their new

Aflika Korps.

To Salty

That was some match - my god. RSA is a very spirited


(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:35 - ID#426220)
Valuless paper plummeting, Precious Metals SOARING: GOLD UP More Than Seven Bucks, SILVER UP 17 CENTS, and XAU Gold & Silver Stock Index Literally SOARING UP NEARLY 9% . Intra- Day Charts at URL above.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:36 - ID#254269)
Rubin resignation rumor story;

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:41 - ID#238295)
As someone on this thread said recently, only idiots would be shorting at these depressed levels with the Germans renewing their support for gold, the Clinton Presidency threatened and the dollar bull over.

For the last 2 years the longs have been the idiots. Now the shorts can claim that mantle.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:42 - ID#253389)
Is America up to this?
Avalon - thanks for mentioning the WSJ Editorial re: the Clinton mess. I've taken the liberty to copy two of the paragraphs which emphasize the points every American should be acutely aware of.


But he can know what his partisans will do, or most of them anyway. They will almost undoubtedly make a last- ditch effort to turn this latest scandal as upside down as it has recently turned them. They will deny the facts, they will counterattack, and they will claim according to habit that sexual scandals are unworthy and irrelevant. Even though slandering their opponents and "smelling rats" has redounded against them, as soon as the ringing stops in their ears they will excoriate anyone who dares offer a challenge. Expect it.
But keep in mind that this is not merely a sexual scandal. Nor is it just a matter of legal technicalities along the Kafkaesque lines of a conviction for resisting false arrest. It is, rather, a fundamental question put to the American people, and the power of recent events stems from this rather than from the fact that it comes packaged with sex, lies, and audiotape. Like the Paula Jones case, which many, even among the president's detractors, mistakenly find to be petty, embarrassing, or merely a provocation, the Lewinsky Affair is about the essentials not only of jurisprudence but of governance. Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky are two inconsequential women who, in the manner of democracies, have become gravely consequential. And the heart of both their cases is whether truth can be denied by power. Can the king declare, in the blinding light of midday, that it is night, and can he compel his subjects to accept what he declares?


Clinton and his attitude toward truth, justice and the expectation of an uncaring public are the greatest threats to our republic since its' foundation. The issue is not just Clinton, but rather, the attitude of the American people toward these events. The Jennifer Flowers thing should have been enough - the American people have chosen this path - will they continue down this perilous slope?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:43 - ID#270230)
Bill Clinton

I can't understand the obsession the American public has with this story. Use some imagination and you end up with a sitcom. "Cheers" replaces "Whitehouse" , Sammy "MayDay" Malone replaces Bill "SlickWillie" Clinton the womanizer. It's just to bad his closest allies have to be Norm, and Frazier......with his lawyer being Cliff.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:46 - ID#288399)
Poorboys@Lake Simcoe
Poorboys, even though I am from NY, was just to Barrie & Orillia 3 weeks ago. Which quadrant of lake are you living along? Are more Canadians turning to gold with the tanking of their $?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:46 - ID#364147)
Poorboys on stormy Lake Simco..................and FRONT
Poorboys:ain't storms great!! Front: One of our esteemed coleagues @ kitco said ( via e- mail ) that you made a few comments about MOIS ( would you care to repeat them please!!! ) - - - - - go team gold~~~~~~~~~

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:49 - ID#254201)
FundaMetalist - Stopped put of my silver at 5.79 with a tiny profit...went long at 5.85 currently 5.90. If the market holds here we should be at the start of the next move up. If so buy any dips under 5.80. Florida was great, came back to a driveway full of snow. Best ride Tower of Terror.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:51 - ID#423274)
Ave! ! ! the little guys!!
WOW watch metals soar!!! two small companies are really running away. . . . DROOY, RANGY and now it looks like GGO have all taken off. Incindentally, GGO is the 2nd most popular stock in the 10 most successfull gold mutal fund portfolios....with over 10% of all cash dumped in this one little Nevada company. Ave to the little guys!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:53 - ID#264346)
Clinton resignation imminent

Word circulating in the Chicago pits is that Clinton will resign this evening. It will give the government a chance to spin this crisis before markets open Monday. He is being forced out by the big money. This apparently has been in the works for several weeks.


John Disney__A
(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:54 - ID#24135)
Durban Deep and ABX
for Mr Zaddeek

Your comparison of DDeep a highly geared high cost

un hedged mine BEFORE it merged with Buffles and

Blyvoor with ABX a Fully hedged low cost producer is

fairly typical of the way you analyze things.

Your comparison is worthless - obviously you want

to BUY an UNhedged HIGH cost mine If you think that

gold is going up. Its relative profits per share will

soar as will its price as a result.

If you think gold is going DOWN, you dont want to buy

either a high or a low cost gold mine. Buy something

else - or hold cash.

What is it with you ?? You hold a lot of ABX and

afraid to be left holding the bag ?? YOU know -

"vested self interest" ?? - Why do you work so hard

to talk up overpriced NA stocks??? What are your

motives ??

Cmon man - life is short - I hate to think of spending

mine trying to straighten up the sloppy trail of badly

spelled misinformation you leave in your wake.

Give us a break - talk about something that you know

something about - there must be something ??

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:54 - ID#423274)

Oh, by the way, PDG ( not a little guy ) is now up over 10% for the day!!
I guess its AVE to ALL the guys!! PDG is the 4th most popular fund stock.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:57 - ID#269409)
@ Clinton..Jods...Asian Tsunami?
Remember Perot's predictions in 92? Could current Clinton story be the "Giant Sucking Sound" he discussed?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:58 - ID#334219)
Silver manipulation
Quebec has been under a 50% blackout for the past two weeks due to the icestrom of the century. So I missed all the comments regarding the alleged lawsuit against those who are trying to manipulate silver..asuming they really exist. Armstrong believe they do ...and silver could get back to $3 if they are forced to sell their hoard. I believe the move is for real. Am I alone in that camp ?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:59 - ID#225273)
The dollar, the Dow, and Gold
The dollar has confirmed the breakdown that began on Tuesday. Currently at 98.40, the dollar index should test the 95.99 support level soon.

Gold has reversed yesterday's downside reversal, a very strong sign, and moved above the high of the late December rally. This is also a very strong sign. Resistance should come in at $314, but it should be clear up to there.

I'm pretty shocked at how well the Dow Jones 30 is acting in wake of everything else that's happening. We've seen days it was down 200+ points. But today it's down less than 70 points - - so far. A lot could happen between now and 4PM EST. Stay tuned.

The Preacher

(Fri Jan 23 1998 12:59 - ID#269409)
@ Arafats advice to Clinton
Miister President, Goats do not talk

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:00 - ID#341293)
Ted :

Repeat what Ted? My last message that I sent to this site was about why a 50 cent dollar wouldn't hurt Canadians and you replied that it would hurt your specific exchange rate from Canadian to US$s....I don't know who's feeding you the bull Ted, but tell them to read all the stuff that's posted including yours before they accuse me of something nefarious eh!


(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:02 - ID#28593)
In a world that THRIVES on dis-information...

some conjectures....

1. The banking system is in Big, BIG TROUBLE...

2. One may wish to look at the Canadian mergers and ask, A leaf from the Swiss paradigm?

3. The System Requires that the public be diverted from any focus on the System.

4. Nothing revealed in the last 72 hours is new news; it has been beltway gossip for many months. But it is a marvelous diversion.

5. Who runs the government? See any of Mozels posts.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:06 - ID#194311)
chugga, chugga, choo, choo....all aboard
gold train leaving.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:07 - ID#269409)
@ Silver following pattern
Notice that as predicted, yesterday's big drawdown in COMEX Silver inventory resulted in a nice move up today....or is the move up simply sympathy with Gold's nice blip up? Looks like a lot uf us may have been on target with calling the Gold bottom at $280 approx., time will tell.

My guess, you'll NEVER see $270 Gold in our lifetimes..if's that for going out on a limb for a former GoldBug basher? ( And no I havn't changed by view about Gold being a ridiculous investment the past 17 years until now! )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:08 - ID#224149)
Shlomo- Certainly cant speak for Ted and other Canadians- - - - I personally do all trades with technical charting - - - no rumours- - - no hype - - - no emotion - - - Pure technical thought- - - Live on the South Shores of Lake Simcoe- - - Barrie is on the North side of the lake - Ted is sure eating his veggies today look at abx go ^^^^^^^^

John Disney__A
(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:10 - ID#24135)
Mr Zadeek's penetrating powers of analysis(PPA)
Mr zadeek

You may be surprised to hear that DBN deep is UP about

30% TODAY. Please explain to all of your followers

exactly WHY we were not supposed to buy it. We await your

guidance oh mighty one from your beautiful home in

technicolour dreamland.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:11 - ID#28593)
In a world that THRIVES on dis-information...

some conjectures....

1. The global banking system is in Big, BIG TROUBLE...

2. One may wish to look at the Canadian mergers and ask, A leaf from the Swiss paradigm?

3. The System Requires that the public be diverted from any focus on the System.

4. Nothing revealed in the last 72 hours is new news; it has been beltway gossip for many months. But it is a marvelous diversion.

5. Who runs the government? See any of Mozels posts.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:11 - ID#22956)
W/W...(watch & wait)....
Hello Ted: couldn't stay AwAy. go gold

speaking of....

poorboys, yes the volume/oi will be important. It needs to get heavier. If on this next fight ( flight ) down by the bears' we don't see new lows I will consider going long. Hep has said that the bottom is in...I respect him as a market soothsayer ( and I don't need no explanations, just results ) ...go hep.

I will sell this rally though. There is still some $$ to be squeezed from this market for the bears. Positioning oneself to go both ways ( ohmy! ) and profit from one of the moves is something that I am working on right now ( with some lovely options ) ...uh huh. :- 0 ( apologize for using alot of first person ( as someone here doesn't like ) , it is the nature of me as a beast ) .

.......These here currencies are a MOVING!! YAHOOOO!! God, I love 'moving' markets!

StudioR - now git yer dumb- ass back here ya' hear??!?

good stuff Irvine...the ( our ) prez needs to shut his piehole.....and this 'new' rally STILL looks like short you said last week. And the sellers will circle the wagon trains...and break out the winchesters... ( bang! ) ..... ( ugh ) has been shot, again...

Bart, too much crap and not enough substance?? .....well....I guess you're right. go gold!

Aurator - I wish they would show cricket ( in US, I don't have a dish, like cable ) now and then. Not much interest here....too bad, I enjoy it. Similar to me baseyball...'tis that. lurk again...


(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:11 - ID#227238)
Tzadeak: Your looking at the NA vs SA thingy from a defensive point of view. Now may be the time to switch hosses.

As we presently pass gas at each other, DROOY is up 3/4 and NEM is up 2 1/4. The ratio of DD to NEM is roughly 1:9. Without taking calc in hand, DD is up roughly 5 to NEM 2.25. Better than twice the gain of NEM. Against ABX 'tis even better ....... but, don't know how much though, .... my frontal lobes overheat after one exercise in heavy 'rithmetic. Need rest now. ........ As a final exercise ( damn I hate that word ) of the morning, I have called my broker and instructed him to fill all his customer's accounts with long positions in gold. I would urge others to do the same. ....... need rest now.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:15 - ID#426220)
GOLD Futures closed UP $7 today, just off its high of $300. XAU just a tad off the day's high, but UP 8% for the day... SO FAR.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:16 - ID#28593)
Sorry about the double post--
"It" didn't declare a post! {: (

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:18 - ID#187253)
It is remarkable how all of a sudden all these bank mergers come out of the woodwork.First the swiss, then the german and now the canadian.Wonder

if the fall of the canadian $ has any connection to it.But i don't think

that all this merger activity is coincidental.We, the public are sure kept in the dark.Just don't rock the financial boat......

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:18 - ID#364147)
Front....................have dis-armed the nuclear bomb so you can relax-----
FOR NOW~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:20 - ID#364147)
Welcome back EB---------------now where the hell is -----------
BERNATZ..............oh yeah,go gold ( UP )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:20 - ID#28585)
An amazing shift in market psychology triggered by a variety of factors:


1 ) The White House crisis.
2 ) Simultaneous weakness in the American dollar, the bond market, and equities market.
3 ) Conclusive evidence of European gold hoarding in expectation of the next EMU announcements.
4 ) Astonishing drawdowns in COMEX inventories.
5 ) Sectoral shortages of retail gold coins in various parts of the continent.
6 ) Clinton's impending State of Union address - - an exercise to be completely devoid of credibility.
7 ) First announcements of major gold & silver industry consolidation.
8 ) New figures on the past month's shocking depletions of mutual funds cash levels.
9 ) Escalating tensions in the Middle East with increased risk of war in order to create a diversion away from Washington's latest domestic scandal.
10 ) Continuing sectoral Asian turmoil along with the first announcements of the substantive, negative effects on the European economy.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:20 - ID#22956)
Clinton Resigning.....................yeah right.
And there go the pigs again, flying right outta my bu**.... shake my head at the feeding frenzy......dateline and 20/20 and Geraldo, and Koppel, and Rather, and Sam, and .... ( etc ) ....zzzzzz.....what a pile of crap to 'feed' the people because the 'newsanchors' think we want all this crap shoved down our throats and they need to get ratings to demand greater salaries.....etc, etc.......... ( duh ) utterly sad......... ( yawn ) ...


(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:23 - ID#364147)
EB...................are you sure--------------------------
Did Clinton really resign???.......XAU up 5.22 ( go ABX ( you dog- you )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:23 - ID#227238)
Strange things with small animals??
LGB: Was Arafat implying that BC should have confined his nocturnal emissions to mute critters???? .... Those foreigners are so inscrutable.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:23 - ID#251268)
Vronsky ?
Gold futures closed?One more hour me thinks.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:26 - ID#364147)
Earl.........................Yes I think(duh) ------------
he was implying that about the emissions~~~~~~~~~~go wood!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:27 - ID#22956)
gotta admit though.....
These type of stories are great for some good knee- jerk money making...if you were positioned correctly ;- )



(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:28 - ID#194311)
bestiality in the Whitehouse....that's what Arafat was saying we just didn't understand his SPIN.
I wonder what this would do for consumer confidence...of goatmeat.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:35 - ID#246224)
Spot Au ascending the ladder to 3-0-0
Every moment another few cents up. Ag looking lively as well ready to break 6.00. Let's see what the closing 30 minutes tells us. Shorts who don't want to be short over the weekend??? Dollar to 95???

John Disney__A
(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:36 - ID#24135)
Mr zadeek = Speach Speach
for Mr Zadeek

Make that up 37 % TODAY for Durban Deep - Now Why was it a

bad deal please ????

I really want to watch you misspell your way out of this one.

Polar bears are in the Black - congrats.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:42 - ID#410114)
Clinton's commerce secretary says americans and buisnesses had better worry about the year 2000 problem

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:44 - ID#258129)
With this level of US$ Europe will go deep down Monday morning

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:47 - ID#269409)
@ Clinton cabinet shakeup
Shakeups in CLinto staff. Hillary CLinto just hired a new chief of staff. Lorena Bobbitt.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:49 - ID#269409)
@ Moronic typing
Damned typo's. Go gold & Silver.... Scrap eariler SSC recommendations, it's a dog among dogs.. makes Paula Jones look like winner of Miss America contest

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:52 - ID#269409)
@ Technical Analysis.....Clinton Travel schedule
Memo to the chart and graph correlation crowd. Some excellent tech. analysis has been done between Monica Lewinsky's late evening visits to the White house, and Hillary's travel schedule. Spot on correlation.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:53 - ID#183109)

Thanks for all the great info you provide to the group here.

Having put 50% of my portfolio into Durban Deep and Randgold over the past two months, I owe you guys a BIG "Domo Arigato Gozaimasu!"

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:54 - ID#251268)
open interst growing fast
April Gold open interst shooting up,why not only cents away from spot price soon the big boys will come to the dance,not to spoil the fun but to join!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:55 - ID#269409)
Bill's latest quote
OK maybe something was put somewhere but I didn't inha...uh I mean I didn't orgasm....

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:57 - ID#269409)
@ Monica Lewinsky
"What do you mean Billy, Staff of Chief, not chief of staff?"

(Fri Jan 23 1998 13:58 - ID#252150)
Ted & Poorboys
We have a gale happening in Victoria. Big whitecaps in the St. of Juan de Fuca. Still fairly mild though.

Ted, thanks for support for Japan post. Haggis & his buddies may be right in the long term...but will they still be around.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:01 - ID#252150)
You have to admit that John Dizzy certainly has a way with words. And such a modest fellow.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:01 - ID#253389)
Short covering?
MARKET UPDATE ( 01/23/98 ) AM- - - - - Gold made a major move to the upside this morning on massive short covering and investor buying having to do with the Clinton scandals, the Asian disaster and the cratering dollar. The important Hong Kong market moved higher with short covering coming in from Japan. The Asian buying reversed the trend in New York which had gold closing down $2 in yesterday's trade. It used to be that the world followed New York. It seems that trend is changing as ravaged investors in Asia having learned their lesson are likely to buy gold at every opportunity. There was strong short covering in Hong Kong at any breach of the $290 level to the downside. One Hong Kong trader was quoted on Reuters as saying that a rally bringing gold above $300 was "a good possibility" and would be followed by a rapid rise in prices as funds rushed to cover their remaining short positions. There are also rumors of mine company covering at these levels. In all markets, the strong demand for gold has been linked to the weakening dollar - - down significantly today against all major currencies. The problems in Asia continue to worsen, and most of the stock markets across the world, including the U.S. are feeling the effect.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:03 - ID#57232)
Banking system in deep trouble? New news?
SDRer: Do you have anything specific? The story of Germany, France - even Italy hoarding gold is intriguing ( sp? ) Apparently the dollar is dropping today ( Delphi's post ) - - but it has been rallying for some time.

My impression of all this is that if a crisis in the world banking system is imminent, gold/gold stocks may not be a good investment, simply because the "powers that be" will suppress gold at the first hint of trouble. If the CB's have loaned out 1/2 of their gold, that means they still have the other half to loan out. There may be less than 1/2 of the CB gold to loan out if we exclude Germany, France and Italy.

Investment is really complicated these days, because the traditional rules of gold as a "flight to safety" do not necessarily apply.

We must be patient, and wait for the "powers that be" to shoot their wad. When there is no need to suppress the price of gold, then gold/gold stocks will be an excellent investment.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:04 - ID#228100)
Clinton: New Development
Bill Clinton: the only man who can turn attention away from a major sex scandal with another sex scandal.

Ironic, isn't it? A young office worker is bringing Bill Clinton to his knees instead of the other way around.

There's more news popping- up. It looks like there may be some hard evidence against Clinton ( puns intended ) .

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:07 - ID#225273)
U.S. Debt
Yesterday's numbers are on the web site and it looks like the U.S. debt fell $20 billion yesterday to $5.481 trillion.

Oh well. I was starting to get excited about the rising debt. The possibilities were great.

The Preacher

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:09 - ID#364147)
"Sweet Baby" ..............JAMES
No problemO bro.....Japan is hardly a utopia ( no matter how much they save! ) ....Talk about LEEMINGS- - - - they ( the Japs ) could use a little 'creativity'

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:12 - ID#251268)
YO Dude,no risk no reward,the big boys can only manipulate the market for so long,in the end the market will set the price.And I'm guessing it's a bargin at 300.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:16 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Wouldn't surprise me a bit to see the currencies again reverse direction early next week.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:16 - ID#41170)
DROOY and gold stocks in general
POLARBEAR- man I done died and gone to HEAVEN!

Tally Ho

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:16 - ID#34883)
Old Dutch Goldbug

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:19 - ID#234311)
Picture worth zip
Year2000, although it is an interesting picture, if you look closely it appears to be the AP file photo of Monica doctored onto another shot of Clinton at some official function.

I believe Clinton is guilty, but sites like this do not advance the cause. Drudge didn't do any real reporting, he just leaked what a Newsweek staffer told him. He's doing the right thing, but credit where credit is due.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:19 - ID#364147)
Hello Ottawa...................................HELL-o....................HELL-O-----------
is anyone home?............HELL- O......Yer currency is inder ATTACK- - - HELL- O......How many countries have devalued their way ta prosperity???....HELL- O...anyone home?....and people wonder if "bubba" is still concentrating on the 'job @ hand'....HELL- O...The statement two days ago by the Can.central bank about NOT defending their currency ( via interest rates ) was totally irresponsible in my very vesTED humble opinion- - - what happened to the old policy of at least giving'lip service' to defending one's currency....Impeach Clinton+ Chretian~~~~~~~~~~~~~go team gold- - - - - - - - - politicians SUK ( literally )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:20 - ID#57232)
No risk -- no reward
jman: I agree. I have 10% of my cash in gold stocks. The rest is waiting a clear- cut technical shift. In my opinion, we have not yet shaken out all the gold shorts - - so be careful! In 1987 gold stocks doubled when the dollar was sinking during approximately a two month period. Then on Oct 87, all gold stock profits evaporated with the market drop. If I see a clear cut technical gold bottom on a two- three month time scale, I will risk more of my cash. Right now, 10% is plenty!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:20 - ID#238295)
powers that be not omnipotent
JTF: Your posts contain much wisdom, but are marred by one major flaw- - the assumption that the powers that be are omnipotent and can always make gold do whatever they want. THIS IS A BIG MISTAKE.

First of all with deflation and market meltdowns perceived as the primary threat, I do not think AG and company would mind if gold went up to $325 or even $350. The yellow went up 20 fold during the 1970s despite heavy selling by the IMF and many CBs. With many trillions of dollars of private capital sloshing around the globe, the CBs can only control the gold price if private investment demand stays depressed. Once private demand takes off for whatever, reason, it really won't matter much what the CBs do or don't do. Just like in the 1970s.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:20 - ID#368244)
Hard Ride

The trail has been long and dusty, now I am hoping for a golden pillow, on which to lay my weary head.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:21 - ID#254269)
@ jcw; thanks for posting more of WSJ articles, I just didn't have time to

do it and I do not subscribe to WSJ electronically. They are really quite interesting articles and I will add them to my weekend stack of reading.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:23 - ID#28585)
The strength of the American dollar remains the linchpin to a strong treasury bond market. With the dollar falling, it will be imperative to raise interest rates to protect its value. A sudden rise in interest rates will TANK THE BOND MARKET ALONG WITH EQUITIES!!

Given the existent Asian crisis, it would be unlikely this time around to expect Asian money to hold American treasuries in the face of a dropping dollar.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:26 - ID#57232)
Gold Rally or gold bottom?
Old Gold: I appreciate your words of wisdom - - you are clearly more experienced than I am. The fundamentals are clearly shifting, but I am not so sure about the technicals. I have been burned so many times jumping in with both feet prematurely, that this time I will keep some of my powder dry. My intuitive feeling is that the turmoil with the shorts has not begun - given the magnitude of their position. Now - - if you tell me that most of the gold shorts have quietly exited, I will start adding to my 10% position.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:30 - ID#269409)
@ Platinum
Platinum bouncing back, can it join Gold & Silver's celebration in the final hour of trade?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:31 - ID#364147)
Money leavin U.S.of A
Long Bond down 1+ 14/32 with yield @ 5.97% ....

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:32 - ID#373403)
Take that shorts, and that and that and that...

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:33 - ID#266105)
@woodland elves
Ted ( "Sweet Baby" ..............JAMES ) ID#364147:
No problemO bro.....Japan is hardly a utopia ( no matter how much they save! )
....Talk about LEEMINGS- - - - they ( the Japs ) could use a little 'creativity'


'cuz I go where I think the puck is going to be - gretzky

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:34 - ID#269409)
@ Fornigate
If confidence in the Prez drops to nothing, will confidence in the strength of U.S. currency and bonds market also be shaken worldwide?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:38 - ID#288352)
The word ZIPPER GATE has been suggested to describe the issue

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:41 - ID#28585)
Expect announcements soon of major gold company mergers in advance of early March financial reports from the industry.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:44 - ID#253246)
(tolerant 1 reconsidered CAU canyon resources )

Heavy trading volume this afternoon 900,000 shares. Purchased 5k @$1
looking for a double by the end of February.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:45 - ID#426220)
Sorry about earlier post... drunk with euphoria ( :- ) ) . GOLD NOW UP NEARLY EIGHT BUCKS... intra- day was $303. XAU UP WELL OVER 9%

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:46 - ID#194311)
Burn Dollar Toilet Paper and
wipe yer ass with bonds......since for some time the misplaced confidence in American paper promises has been gold's burden.

Now the charade in the power drunk and bank- corrupt US capital is being shown for what it is....the only non- political money will rise phoenix- like from the ashes teaching prudence, humility and truth prevail over gluttony, pride and lies.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:48 - ID#426220)


ORACLE has discovered yet another investment vehicle, whereby the hapless Asians might have SAVED EVEN MORE of their destroyed wealth - IN FACT CONSIDERABLY MORE!: SILVER.

The report shows charts depicting the price of SILVER in the five
beleaguered currencies during the last six months: Thailand's baht, Indonesia's rupiah, Malaysia's ringgit, Philippines' peso and South Korea's won. RESULTS ARE ASTOUNDING!

Whereas GOLD was and is a bonanza for Asians, SILVER is indeed a TREASURE- HOUSE. Even the most blind and ardent adherent to paper money is forced to concede THE VISUAL PROOF OF THE SILVER SAVIOR.

To read the report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:49 - ID#254269)
How about Girliegate ?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:51 - ID#201131)
The yen goes up and so does gold. That is how it is.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:55 - ID#224149)
Ted- Put your dancing shoes on.Its Disco time - - - Away - - Dancing- - - Dancing disco fever- - Forget the doors - - - open up the gates of cash - - go- - pdg- - go- - abx - - - go- - go

(Fri Jan 23 1998 14:56 - ID#234311)
Name that scandal
The name of choice where I work is TAILGATE.

Q: What did Janet Reno whisper in Clinton's ear Wednesday night?
A: His Miranda rights.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:01 - ID#157190)
What a lift off !!!
Who was it 1 or 2 days ago here saying 300$ by monday? Good Call There.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:02 - ID#254269)
Dow down 35 on volume of 524 million shares. One hour to go.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:03 - ID#194311)
Thai army launches "Go- for- Gold" to lure precious metal gifts

BANGKOK, Jan 22 ( AFP ) - In a bid to help boost Thailand's
foreign reserves, the army Thursday kicked off its latest patriotic
campaign aimed at persuading people to donate their gold to the
government to swap it for dollars.
The campaign, starting January 25 and lasting until February 2,
will collect gold from the people, melt it down and and sell it
overseas in exchange for dollars.
Army commander General Chettha Thanajaro said he wanted Thais to
hand over their their gold without any recompense except a
certificate and badge from the "Thais Help Thais" campaign.
That campaign was launched in December as part of a drive to
rally national spirits amid the economic crisis.
The army said gold shops in Bangkok quickly responded to
Thursday's call, donating 25 kilograms ( 55 pounds ) worth 215,000
dollars. Organisers did not project the amount of gold the campaign
is expected to collect.
The Bank of Thailand spent most of the country's nearly 40
billion dollars of official foreign reserves in May in a failed
defence of the baht.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:03 - ID#23398)
I guess her PICOLO classes in High School paid off?????????????????/or was the HORN,

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:03 - ID#285233)
I think that Zippergate is very descriptive.

For some time I have been a big fan of Durban Deep and Randgold ( see my posts for the last two months ) . I think that Durban Deep can easily be over $50 if gold goes to $500. It has once reached $48/share at a time when Durban was a FAR lesser company. Randgold , with its London listed property holdings company is a sure winner once this gold market gets going.
Silver; SSRIR will see $15- $18 if the drill results pan out as anticipated this year and silver stays at $7- $7.50.

John Disney__A
(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:03 - ID#24135)
Where are YOUUUUUUU - Meestair Zadeeeeeek
Mr Zaddeek

Hey look old buddy -

DDeeps up 31% , st helena up 28 % , Kloof ( a dog ) up 21 % ,

My harmony up a crummy 10 % Even ASA up 10% - I wonder about

randfonts and my e- dagga ( which pays a 30% dividend ) are

doing - and My options on DD ohboyohboy and Rangy and

my avgold which had already doubled but freddy assinslop

er sassisfras - what was it ?? had said was finished - where

are they - wont know till monday - ill have to live with that.

Why exactly was it that your followers who hang on your

every misspelled word were NOT supposed to buy these stocks.

Pray tell me master Zadeek .... Your humble servant wants

to know how one man can be SO WRONG - - - Where are you ??

Has daddy sent you to your room ??

To James - Thank you Sir James for that sideways

compliment - I think ? Who cares James - insult me

compliment me - Im making serious dough.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:06 - ID#194311)
Chinese orders all merchants to SELL DOLLARS
Chinese yuan sets another record
SHANGHAI, Jan 23 ( AFP ) - The Chinese yuan soared to a new
30- month high of 8.2780 to the dollar Friday as the central bank
stayed away from the China Foreign Exchange Trading System here,
dealers said.
"The yuan has been setting new highs this week because banks and
export and import companies were selling dollars while the central
bank did not intervene," a dealer said.
"It seems that the central bank is willing to see the yuan
rise," the dealer said.
According to an analyst at Yashang Consultancy, the rate was the
highest since the forex centre was opened in April 1994.
The central bank has a policy requiring local enterprises to
sell all their dollars but some companies have been allowed to keep
15 percent of the dollars they hold at any one time.
Meanwhile on the black market, the dollar's rate eased this week
after last week's surge drew a flood of sellers from other
provinces, money changers said.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:08 - ID#228100)
I vote for the name "JailBaitGate".

Upon careful examination, I agree that the Clinton photo has been altered - - Maybe that why they put "This photo is a doctored photo" at the bottom of the page.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:08 - ID#31868)
CAU is something I am still looking into. I hope you make a ton on it.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:11 - ID#28585)
Thailand's attempts to get its citizenry to hand over its gold will result in "gold hoarding," you may be certain of that!

The Thai will certainly "go for gold..." they'll go and hide it in a deep hole in the ground.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:11 - ID#254269)
@ LGB, your 14.34; What do you mean "If" confidence drops; it already has, hasn't it ?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:11 - ID#194311)
What's up with AFP reporting, disinformation rules...
NEW YORK, Jan 23 ( AFP ) - The dollar tumbled against other major
currencies in early trading Friday as US President Bill Clinton's
sex and coverup scandal sparked a wave of selloffs.
The scandal "gives us an excuse to correct on ( the ) dollar, we
saw profit- taking and people are getting out from any long positions
on dollars," Gallagher added.
Gold remained unchanged at 290.80 dollars an ounce from Thursday.

LONDON, Jan 23 ( AFP ) - The dollar tumbled on Friday on the .....
.... Gold rose to 296.75 dollars an ounce against 294.10 Thursday

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:12 - ID#26793)
Testimony schedule on IMF-Congressional funding

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:13 - ID#286262)

I think that is a doctored or fake photo, the headset of Lewinsky is exactly the same as the picture that has been available to the media. It also has a lighter grayscale color to it. Looks pretty amateur.

Mike Stewart
(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:13 - ID#270253)
Another line to use
Zippergate is good, but I like Fornigate better.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:14 - ID#286262)

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:14 - ID#426220)

GOLD is UP more than NINE DOLLARS TODAY, while U.S. T- Bonds have suffered the worst two day decline in many a moon - having shed TWO FULL POINTS IN AS MANY DAYS. That's a horrenduous price drop of 64/32cds, pushing the long- bond yield to right near 6% again.

It is the conclusion of this analyst that the Nippons have begun dumping U.S. T- Bonds in ernest, and buying GOLD with the proceeds. Just as recent months currency chaos and stock market meltdowns have razed Southeast Asia, today's action in GOLD AND T- BONDS WILL CASUSE CONTAGION, thus initiating a Domino Effect in both investment vehicles... however, in opposite directions.

Although the market is still running as I speak, the XAU may well close UP 10% today... truly a call to arms of the precious metals bugs.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:16 - ID#194311)
IMF becoming a political beast....who's money is it anyway?
U.S. Senate leader says IMF must address problems
WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott
said Friday the International Monetary Fund had policy and
leadership problems that would have to be addressed before U.S.
funding for the agency was approved.
``There are real problems with IMF policy and IMF
leadership,'' the Mississippi Republican said in a speech to the
U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
Lott said he thought it was necessary to handle these
problems before the IMF received more U.S. money. He also said
Congress would not necessarily move early in the session to
consider the IMF issue.
Lott's office would not elaborate on his remarks.
The IMF has put together rescue deals worth more than $100
billion for Indonesia, South Korea and Thailand.
President Clinton is asking Congress to approve some $19
billion to boost IMF resources after the three costly bailouts.
But critics of the IMF have emerged on the political right
and left, arguing that the bailouts shackle the free market and
hurt workers and the environment.
In recent days, the Clinton administration has stepped up
efforts to defend the IMF and its role in the bailouts.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:18 - ID#28585)
As the winter Olympics opens, the message, "GO FOR THE GOLD!!" will be repeated soon over and over again on every TV network across the land. The subliminal effects of such a repetitious message will have tremendous psychological impact on investors.

Expect investors to GO FOR THE GOLD!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:19 - ID#28593)
MOZEL!!!--QUICK--Jump on this like a duck on a June bug {:-)
CNBC has just announced that the dollar hasn't been backed by gold for 20 years and doesn't NEED to be, because it is

BACKED by the strength and PURCHASING POWER of the United States!

LOL, LOL, LOL- - Wonderous words from the world's largest debtor nation!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:20 - ID#224149)
CNBC- Talking heads CB'S have 40,000 tons of Gold - - - Private Vaults 20,000 tons and maybe should sell ? DAMN - - - - - Give me back my dancing shoes - - - - Away Quick

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:23 - ID#335190)
Fast Track/MAI Trade Agreement @ Corporate USofA & Their Media. - We The people ????
The present Washington sex charges.

MAI/NAFTA/SDR = FAST TRACK - CORPORATE USofA & International Bankers must have FAST TRACK NOW !!

FAST TRACK is being reintroduced this month, yes, Corporate USofA, is in a difficult way, if they can not get Fast Track approved. That is why, Corporate USofA has pulled out all the stops, to have Fast Track approved.

Corporate USofA is desperate, considering the Asia Economic Crisis, and the negative economic impact, that is now showing in the USofA. Corporate USofA must have Fast Track before the world economic depression begins.

The present sex scandal in Washington, is a diversion tactic, orchestrated by the USofA Corporations and the International Bankers. The purpose of such heinous accusations, as these sex frolics are being referenced to the laws, that have been allegedly broken, is an obvious tactic to draw attention away from a very serious issue. Fast Track.

I expect that the Corporate, and International Bankers via, their respective representatives in the Media, have put these allegations of sex charges, and legal wrong doings before the people, to divert the attention of the USofA Citizen, from the true agenda of Corporate USofA, and the International Bankers.

Corporate USofA needs this diversion tactic, to give the Corporate Representatives in Congress, an opportunity to gain the few Representatives that are holding out, to get on side, by pointing at a President that has allegedly broken the law.

Give Corporate USofA, all the awards necessary, damn they are good at what they do. It is always a pleasure to watch an artist accomplish great work. Corporate USofA, are extremely good at taking care of Business. The USofA Citizens at this site, can be very proud of your Corporate Citizens, a job well done, to be sure. Fast Track will be a done deal. The sex scandal will be turned away by the USofA Citizen, but Fast Track will be a reality, everyone will be happy, all will be well again. We The People, eh! Take care.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:24 - ID#26793)
Indonesian Nightmare

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:24 - ID#28585)
An amazing shift in market psychology triggered by a variety of factors:


1 ) The White House crisis.
2 ) Simultaneous weakness in the American dollar, the bond market, and equities market.
3 ) Conclusive evidence of European gold hoarding in expectation of the next EMU announcements.
4 ) Astonishing drawdowns in COMEX inventories.
5 ) Sectoral shortages of retail gold coins in various parts of the continent.
6 ) Clinton's impending State of Union address - - an exercise to be completely devoid of credibility.
7 ) First announcements of major gold & silver industry consolidation.
8 ) New figures on the past month's shocking depletions of mutual funds cash levels.
9 ) Escalating tensions in the Middle East with increased risk of war in order to create a diversion away from Washington's latest domestic scandal.
10 ) Continuing sectoral Asian turmoil along with the first announcements of the substantive, negative effects on the European economy.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:26 - ID#240277)
@as of last nite

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:27 - ID#194311)
El Nino gold...this is a good spin.
El Nino creates micro Gold Rush in northern California

SAN FRANCISCO, Jan 23 ( AFP ) - El Nino- spawned storms are
washing gold nuggets from their centuries- old resting places and
into the hands of gold panners in northern California rivers - - just
in time for the 150th anniversary of the Gold Rush.
"El Nino will stir up a lot of gold and open a lot of gold
veins," said Mike Smerker, whose grandfather was a Gold Rush
prospector. "This year, it wont matter what creek you pan in ... Any
creek with enough water in it to pan ... go ahead and try."
The storms battering California this winter are promising to
replicate the rain that soaked James Marshall when he made his
historic discovery of gold in a creek at Sutters Mill on January 24,
Almost overnight, tens of thousands of treasure seekers who
would come to be known as "Forty- Niners" raced to the untamed
country at the base of the Sierra Nevada foothills to seek their
A reenactment of Marshalls discovery is planned for Saturday,
when counties throughout Californias gold territory plan to launch a
two- year bash of parties, parades and other events celebrating the
Gold Rush.
People interested in reliving the era can take trips with
companies such as Gold Prospecting Expeditions in Jamestown or Gold
County Prospecting in El Dorado County.
Virtually the entire population of San Francisco left their
homes, crops and livestock as gold fever spread to the coast. In
their frenzy to find the their fortunes, treasure- seekers forced
local Indians onto reservations or killed them in order to stake
claims along the rivers.
Rivers were diverted and oak and redwood forests destroyed in
the frenzied quest for fast riches. An estimated 12 billion tonnes
of earth dug up by miners was dumped into local rivers, killing
wildlife and burying farmland.
While individuals panned for gold or washed the river soil
through large metal screens in boxes called "sluices," companies
brought in pressurized hoses to wash away entire riverbanks and
It is believed that fewer than half of the 90,000 people, most
of them men, who set out for California by land or sea got there.
The rest died on the way or turned back.
Most of the miners did not get rich. However, gold quickly lined
the pockets of the merchants who sold shovels, food and other
supplies to treasure hunters.
It was a lawsuit filed in a San Francisco court by farmers
claiming that mining was annihilating farmland that brought the Gold
Rush to a close.
Both Marshall and Sutter died penniless.
Most of the river banks that the Gold Rush prospectors rushed to
are now private property and off limits to visitors. People have
built homes on the riverbanks.
Gold Prospecting Expeditions owns the mile- long stretch of Woods
Creek where it takes aspiring gold hunters. On the bank of the river
is a replica of an authentic 1949 miners camp.
"The secret to finding gold is knowledge... you have to know
what you are doing," said Smerker, who works for Gold Prospecting
Expeditions. "If you dont do it right, all you get is tired and your
back really hurts."

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:30 - ID#26793)
Hong Kong in confidence crisis

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:30 - ID#28585)
Just imagine you are major shareholders of GE stock and you've sold thousands of February puts on your stock!! The net result: You are crapping in your pants right now so you better talk down gold and talk up the great Wall Street bull market!! ( Is anybody surprised?? )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:31 - ID#42371)
I don't know what's behind this rally (all gold sites busy)...
But all I can fry shorts..fry.

Monkee Person
(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:32 - ID#288105)
@farfel #10...particularly the banks

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:36 - ID#194311)
in blink, wink wink.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:37 - ID#234311)
Mea maxima culpa
That's what I get for not scrolling down past the buttons. Of course it was a doctored photo - - DUHHH! Smack! ( sound of hand hitting forehead ) Sorry folks.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:40 - ID#426220)

Next week will be published the GOLD SHORTS Swan- Song:

"Brother, can you spare a dime...?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:44 - ID#60253)

Date: Sun Jan 18 1998 09:46

sharefin ( Worth a re- read???? ) ID#284255:

ANOTHER updated plus a couple of old ones I found.

Mr. Sharefin, Thank you for saving these. There is much more to this.



Date: Sun Jan 18 1998 09:37

A.Goose ( ) ID#20137:

Date: Sun Jan 18 1998 06:17

Junior ( @ ANOTHER ) ID#248180:

 The baseline I see from ANOTHER's comments set the final stage for fiat

currency, as we know it today. I believe that ANOTHER's thoughts spell the death of the U.S. dollar as we know it today.

Mr. A.Goose, Thank you for all your thinking ( only part of post is above ) . It has long been a worry that the US$ and its oil backing would some day come undone. I will post tonight between your 6:00 & 7:00 US /EST. More thoughts and replies.



Date: Sat Jan 17 1998 23:55

JTF ( Areas of General Agreement ) ID#57232:

ANOTHER: I think there is much that we can agree on. I don't just mean myself, but fellow Kitcoites.

Here's to the future!

Mr. JTF, There is much more to your post. You always consider all things. We look to the future for change, to change is to live!



Date: Sat Jan 17 1998 18:14

JTF ( I look forward to your comments! ) ID#57232:

ANOTHER: I would be very interested in your response to my comments regarding why "paper gold" trading cannot distort the price of physical gold significantly - - although price swings might be increased or decreased somewhat depending on the trading - - but not enough to shut down the gold trading market. My sources were D.A., a commodity trader who posts

JTF: I will discuss tonight! Thank you.



Date: Sat Jan 17 1998 13:53

Lurker 777 ( Another what? ) ID#317247:


Mr. Lurker 777, You honor me sir. I only ask that you consider my thoughts.  a truth spoken is for the benefit of many and never a gain for only the one

Many outcomes can grow from earth, as nations cultivate the soil differently. To understand the climate, is to make ready for storm.



Date: Thu Jan 22 1998 18:51

Cmax ( ANOTHER/GOLD/OIL ) ID#339320:

For all you "doubting Thomas':

Mr.Cmax: Sir, Some think my thoughts are as hogwash? Several CBs use agents to buy gold. Some agents, small, some large, some BIG. They buy much from $365 down, all last year. Even today, it does not show. This world, it is strange, yes? I would say Big Trader has little time for washing the hog! But you sir have a large shovel and dig very

deep! It is written, all holes in earth lead to china!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:46 - ID#426220)

Gold Swan- Song to be sung by the newly formed duet of Smith & Arnold, formally of UBS and Merrill Lynch, respectively.

"Brother, can you spare a dime...?"

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:53 - ID#411259)
..... Go Gold .....

The world is a funny place. You wake up one morning and everything has changed. As one of the most vehement gold bears on this forum, I have had plenty of harsh words for gold.

No more.

I like it. I think the downside is just a retest of the lows around $280. I think it is much more likely that gold will rally. I'm not calling for an explosion, but I would like to add my voice to those that say the bottom is in.

heEBee jeEBee boy.. Careful with those shorts. Today was short covering but I think new buying is going to enter the market. I would not get in front of this train, the risk/reward is all outta' whack. Lower your skirt.

LGB @ Yassirs Goat -

See my Jan 22 @ 21:49. Heard the goat thing on the radio.

Away..Go Gold!!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:56 - ID#364147)
2BRO2B......................+ Poorboys...............
2BRO2B: That's why they call em the "Great One" ( go RANGERS! ) Poorboys:How bout some steel toe boots for some heavy stompin.....Hey Earl: ya still glad ya sold yer precious ABX~~~~~~~

(Fri Jan 23 1998 15:59 - ID#364147)
Breaking News............................
RJ has capitulated.............

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:00 - ID#288399)
CNBC/Gold lies
CNBC makes me sick. They always show precious metals after currencies but today NO because gold is up. Also, buy every stock dip known to man, buy bonds when they dip, but when gold dips CNBC says it's proof that gold "is no longer a safe haven"; when gold shoots up, " it's never been able to hold in the past" "it's just a temporary spike". Bob Pisani had this contrived chart about who owns gold,and said IF IF IF IF the Central Banks start selling, it will prove again that gold doesn't hold up. Yeah, that's right, Bob. And IF people finally wake up that all their paper piles are just piles of chit, CNBC can try then to spin all they want and it won't work. Go's only a matter of time till the great confidence game is over. There, now I feel better after venting.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:04 - ID#364147)
Business as usual in Cape Breton-N.S

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:05 - ID#269409)
@ RJ...No mystery to Gold's big move
Come now RJ, there's nothing mysterious to Gold's big move. It obviously is a direct response to one "LGB" shift from Gold Bear to Gold Bull for the first time in 17 years, after which Gold, and Gold shares have performed spectacularly well!

I checked out that post you sent me too that you had already posted with the Arafat line ..your whole post was a masterpiece! It's a must add to Kitco hall o' fame.

Now, are you going to tell "Another" that he should have added you to his list of skeptics? He just posted more drivel.... ( But he's SOoooooo mysterious eh? )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:05 - ID#411259)
..... All .....

Heard a rumor today about China lowering the country's "internal" price of gold. Don't have a clue what this means. Sounds a lot like the changes India made. Would appreciate any info about China's gold policies. Thanks.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:07 - ID#288295)
Oh, MY! D R O O Y !!!!!!!

I think Ray has just become King of Louisiana!

Go, baby, go!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:10 - ID#426220)

The Gold & Silver Index decisively burst through its 50- Day Moving Average, closing at 76.12 - which will bring in hordes of Technical Traders next week. It's my guess the next logical question will be: "Which of GOLD, SILVER OR PLATINUM will give us the best run for our money during the new bull market?" And secondly, will gold and silver stocks turn in a historical leverage performance of doing 3 to 5 TIMES BETTER THAN THE PRECIOUS METALS THEMSELVES?

Certainly, pleasant analysis to comtemplate.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:13 - ID#411259)
..... Go Gold .....

Although it is impossible to quantify the LGB Factor, its influence cannot be ignored. Have added LGB indicator to all charts.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:20 - ID#348286)
I said it before, and it bears repeating, your call for the bottom was right on. Many were doubters, and they will soon regret it.
Whether or not this is the big bang time will tell, but the right signs are showing.
$700. Gold will sell better than $300. Gold.......

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:24 - ID#28593)

Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 15:44

It is written, all holes in earth lead to china!

Thank you, Sir.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:30 - ID#93232)
@ All....Please note the topic....I am in compliance...First Ammendment?
This morning I enjoyed spending a couple of hours with my old college roomie, Guy Berry III. He privately owns seven banks and has served as head of the Oklahoma Bankers Association in the past. He is a man of growing influence and his latest accomplishment is the successful spearheading of a $800 mm turnpike progam here ( his baby ) . He spends more and more time in Washington on banking matters and in the past has worked for the Federal Reserve.

We visited at length about the role of gold in providing currency stability and fiscal responsibility. Guy is a conservative fellow. I thought you might want to know his bottom line on gold, since its relational role to currency is pertinent to forecasting future pricing.
He said that in his banking circles here and in Washington it was commonly held that the optimum price of gold, today, "should be" between $350. and $375. I really don't know what weight to place on this, but this thinking is contradictory to the thought that the fed wants the price of gold to be lower. For what it's worth....

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:30 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 25.67 ( week ago today reading was 26.66 )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:31 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .254 ( week ago reading was .247 )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:32 - ID#335190)
Jobs Jobs Jobs @ USofA [All is well eh!]
Calif. jobless rate rose to 6.0 percent in December

SACRAMENTO, Calif. ( Reuters ) - California's unemployment rate rose to 6.0 percent in December, up 0.1 percent from
the revised rate of 5.9 percent in November, the state's Employment Development Department said Friday.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Raytheon to lay off 9,700 in major consolidation

LEXINGTON, Mass. ( Reuters ) - Defense and aerospace giant Raytheon Co. said Friday it would lay off nearly 10,000 people in a sweeping move to consolidate operations and cut costs at two business units in response to shifts in the defense industry and global competition. Raytheon said the reorganization is centered on two subsidiaries - - Raytheon Systems Co. and Raytheon Engineers & Constructors - - with the vast majority of the job cuts and facilities closings to be borne by Raytheon Systems, its principal defense and electronics business.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:32 - ID#252150)
John Disney@some Canadian AU stocks did O.K. today
My Kinross was up 16% , Barrick only 7% . Then again, many people put their money in a bank for a whole year for 1/2 that.
Do you have any idea of the discount that ASA is trading at? Thanks.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:35 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 50.51 ( week ago reading was 49.79 )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:36 - ID#28593)

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:36 - ID#335190)
NAFTA/MAI/SDR @ Fast Track
U.S. Trade Rep. bullish on fast track fate

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M., Jan 23 ( Reuters ) - U.S. Trade Representative Charlene Barshefsky said on Friday prospects for passage of "fast track""trade authority by Congress this year were good and would not be affected by the current controversy surrounding President Clinton.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:37 - ID#254269)
Dow closed at 7701 (down 30 points or 0.34%), S & P 500 closed down
5.4 points, 30 yr bond at 5.971% . Volume on NYSE 632 million shares.
The bond's moving up a little isn't it ? Tried to post this twenty minutes ago and could not get into Kitco.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:39 - ID#36965)
Gold market in legaleze
After observing the gold market I have the following to say in legaleeze- - Yowser, Yowser, Yowser!!!! Its been a day to remember.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:40 - ID#333232)
China and Gold
RJ - something might be in here, haven't had time to look through.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:40 - ID#432148)
Donald - Dr?Coleman
Thanks for site - someone else called him Dr. Coleman so I know not.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:46 - ID#410194)
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Unchanged at 442,237

Silver: Fell 763,521 troy ounces to 106,705,115 - A new 13 year low!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:50 - ID#359316)
Promoting GOLD
Look at the size of that trophy- is it gold? is it solid?
I believe there are many opportunities where the value of
gold as an investment may be combined with its attractiveness
for fine objects... after all, what was in Pirates' treasure
chests as well as gold coins? This is something that gold
traders, craftsmen, jewellers and sporting establishments
( + anything I haven't thought of ) could get together to
promote gold as an investment. Of course it has already been
done before, but the same reasoning that applies to gold
bullion as a dead investment would apply here: Perhaps we are
at a nadir of gold as ceremonial/decorative metal. Objects
made from bullion gold, as in the case of Asian 24 ct jewellery,
bought at a small premium over spot, plus labour charges separately
itemised, and hopefully exempt from tax and confiscation. There
you would need legal counsel as well. Something like a trade
association ought to look at it. I recall there have been some
good ideas in this forum about casting religious statues etc.
And what about full page spreads for gold objects in newspapers
and magazines- heaven knows there is enough kitsch china there-
and you could help to CHANGE THE PERCEPTION. Gold art as a
beautiful heirloom and investment and store of value against
currency getting RUPIAH'd.

Singspiel is a fine Arabian horse, yes?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:50 - ID#28861)
John Disney
Thank you for calling Durban Deep to our attention some time back. I did due diligence and then used my year- end bonus check to buy some shares and WOW! Keep the SA stuff coming!!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 16:56 - ID#254269)
@ Donald; Re D/G Ratio; I have now been keeping your D/G ratio for 27

days and the "27 day moving average" is 28.13. Today's close of 25.67 is 2.46 points ( or 8.7% ) below the 27 day average. In a few more days, I will beable to develop a 30 day average. I'm just keeping this on a llittle
cheat sheet and calculating it manually ( really sophisticated stuff ! ! )
I was impressed by the percentage move.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:10 - ID#372344)
@ Earl.... James.... South Africa.
I agreed , Earl that there was money to be made with SA Shares and stated so in my post I indicated that SA Shares always move up first
on a new Gold Bull, the point I was making was the level to which these SA shares they came down DROOY 80% a recovery of say 20%
needs to be put in context, whereas say ABX down say 40% and up
say 8% today also needs context.The question I raised is:

1. How long before NA catch and outproform SA Shares? Since historically they have done so every time.


Mr. Dizzy lives in his own little world somewhere in the 5th Dimension
and usually dreams in technicolor, although lately it has been Black
and White, and you will have noticed that he attacks any and every one
who dare posts anything factual about SA, that he does not want us
investors to know. I am truly shocked he hasn't attacked Private Investors Post this morning, wait maybe he hasn't read it yet, but
wait... the day is not yet over.

But when he is cornered with the truth he instinctly reacts by threatening
to take HIS ball and play HIS game elsewhere. I for one am not going to
waste my time with his obvious denial and biased and negative bickering,
especially on a wonderful day for GOLD like today Heh!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:13 - ID#269409)
@ Realistic...Silver..Merril Lynch
Love those continued COMEX re Merril Lynch and they're previous shennanigans of a couple weeks ago. I heard that they issued a sober statement today as follows;

"There IS no improper relationship between scumbag attorney's and our sleazy rumor mongering short traders in silver futures"

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:21 - ID#266105)

Screw the Cigar, what this country needs is a good
five cent nickle!

Lan Man
(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:25 - ID#317183)
@It's Alive!
Can anybody say "VOLUME"?


Best day that I can remember in a loooooooooooong time!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:26 - ID#28593)
Do not ignore China....
Date: Wed Jan 21 1998 12:52
SDRer__A ( View from early morning ( Eastern ) light- - ) ID#287277:

Charged with bringing ones country from the Valley up the mount- -

One takes from the West their injunction, Never use your own money.
...and borrows where one can.

One takes from the West their creative booking; but, instead off- balance- sheet debts, there are off- balance- sheet surpluses from a steady, secret river, a river whose flow cleanses an ancient wound.

One brings from the ethos of ones own history a steadfast, bedrock belief in the prima value of stability.

One brings from the literature and philosophical foundations of ones own
history an appreciation of Discipline.

One brings to the political arena the knowledge that to gain and hold power one must be cloaked in credibility; public pronouncements are political currency and must be spent wisely.

One reads the Wests descriptions of ones economy as:
"bird cage theory, in which he likened the relationship of markets
and central planning to a bird and its cage.

He said: 'The bird must not be held tightly in the hand or it will die. It should fly, but only within the cage: without a cage, it will just fly away.' If the bird is a market economy, then the cage is
State planning. Naturally, the size of the cage has to be appropriate."

And one smiles that the West finds this so reprehensible...
Jin makes such a strong, beautiful cage, a cage worthy of the bird, a cage that defends and protects by merely being. From yuan,,, to yin and yang.

From the Book of Nine Elixirs:
One of the clearest statements on the Elixir of Correct Yang is in 1.16b- 17a: Gold is the Elixir of Correct Yang.

Yang is Earth; The Year of the Tiger's element is earth. Coincidence?
( Chinese calendar blocks into 60 year CYCLES )

Charles Keeling
(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:28 - ID#344225)
Attention Hashimoto
Europe knows full well the value of
Gold and it's importance in supporting a
stable currency.

The gold backing of the Swiss Franc has
worked well for many decades. The US dollar
has been furnished strength by US gold
reserves and is now considered the Worlds
strongest currency.

Is it time now for Japan to get out of paper,
and into GOLD?????

Gold Market

Three Central
Banks Hold
Gold Against
Euro Disaster

single currency fears

THE Bundesbank is
hoarding massive
amounts of gold while its
value falls because of
fears among the German
public that the European
single currency might
falter or collapse.

Both Italy and France are
also hanging on to huge
quantities of gold, partly
because of worries about
economic instability after
the launch of monetary
union next year. One
extreme theory is that
banks are keeping gold in
case they need to support
a new national currency if
the euro fails.

Such concerns help to
explain why Europe's
"big three" central banks
have been refusing to sell
an ever- declining asset
and may not hand over
much of their gold as
reserves to the future
European Central Bank
later this year, according
to leading analysts.

They say central banks
and governments do not
want to send out signals
that might alarm the
public before the switch to
the euro on Jan 1, 1999.
One German expert on
Bundesbank monetary
policy, Ulrik Dennig of
Hamburg's HWWA
economic insitutute, an
organisation part- funded
by the German
government, said: "In
Germany people are not
very sure about the
monetary union. They
need to know that their
money is stable. That is
psychologically important
for them.

"Because of the need for
stability it would be
unwise for countries to be
selling gold in the run up
to monetary union or in
its early stages. Once it
has proved itself to be
stable things might

German attachment to its
vast store of 3,700 tons of
gold stems in large part
from the country's
experience with racing
inflation in the 1920s,
when gold was a safe
haven for investors.

Last year there was
uproar in Germany when
the government
attempted to revalue the
Bundesbank's gold
reserves to bring its
finances into line for
single currency
membership. This was
seen by the German
people as unwanted
interference with the
nation's assets by the

When the European
Central Bank is formed
this summer, it is
expected to hold about 15
per cent of its reserves in
gold, less than 1,000 tons.
The rest will stay with
national central banks.

Stephen Yorke, director
of economic research at
SBC Warburg in London,
said that although many
Europeans had an
"emotional" attachment
to gold, the real reason
central banks were not
selling despite gloomy
predictions of gold's
future value was that the
modern gold- lending
market allowed them to
make a good return.

But he said an alternative
view was that central
banks were keeping it to
provide backing for a new
national currency should
the euro break up.

London Telegraph, Jan.
23, 1998

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:32 - ID#359316)
Sir or Madam,
I care not for Cigars, nor do I recall mentioning such; and as for 5 cent nickles, or nickels, I would find a five pence piece to be much better favoured. All things considered, a currency linked firmly to GOLD, and therewith insulated from the depredations of the printing presses, is a subject in which we might perhaps find common ground?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:33 - ID#344308)

we've ridden the beast to its' was a time no
one else is time for the sellers of options
to have their futures reversed.....i control 13- - 100oz contracts
of gold...with many of you control that
which they cannot provide? the shorts are fixing to burn
in hell for participating in the imf's fiasco....lucky 13.....

how about those bonds' donald???? damn- it...
talk about volatility! who else got on- board with puts? the signals
were here weeks before, for all to see.......same for the us$....
the flame- thrower is burning some @ss........and the lawn- mower
cuts all on the first pass......

soybeans are fixing to drop like a rock.....ALLABOARD....

now we know how........and when......we've always known why.....

the white- house- of- shame- - - - - - - - has earned their place in fame...
haggis and others are can this be??? is it 'our'
fault too? my vote was for another.....what else to do?

as was perused here in the not too distant is time for
a cleansing of what society has become.....the fringe, sig's, and
professional politicos ( lawyers ) have taken our heritage- -
freedom and justice for all- - - - - and manipulated and distorted
something of honor, into a slow, and progressive bastardazation....
that which it is now.......sooner than later...

cherokee!;..preparing- a- place- for- the- shorts- - - and- their- hides

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:35 - ID#238295)
My congrats to LGB and Hepcat. Correctly bearish last year, they turned bullish at the bottom. RJ a little late, but better late than never. Another also on targer but I am not sure if he was bullish or bearish last year. Now waiting for Oldman, EB, and Selby to join the winning team.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:45 - ID#238295)
The collapse of bond prices today is another signal that this gold bull is for real. As Captain Bill at the Privateeer has said repeatedly, sustained gold bulls only occur when long- term interest rates are RISNG.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:47 - ID#368244)
A Message for ANOTHER
There are many cultures, religions, and beliefs in this world. Since I have no idea of your beliefs, I want to share 3 verses of scripture from what we refer to as our Holy Bible. My mind wanders to the reasons for your posts based upon the length and thought that has obviously gone into them. I can't help but wonder what your intentions are and your motivations for them. But, let me now share wisdom with you. Sometimes we win to only find that we have really lost. The following is from the book of Revelation Chapter 13, verses 16- 18:

"16. He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17. so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666."

In our Christian religion this occurence signifies the beginning of the end of worldly existence, and those who bear this mark are damned.

So I ask you, can you really believe this is good ?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:48 - ID#390214)
Confirmation of Japan selling US bonds
Also in the mix of selling was word that the Japanese post office pension fund, Kampo, was selling 10- and 30- year

paper. Players said hedge funds were big contributors to the selling in bond futures.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:48 - ID#252150)
No, I'm not an American. Or as you put it a "Yank from a septic tank".

I'm proud to say that I'm a Canadian, land of the northern peso.

What did you mean when you asked if I knew how to spell insight? You would'nt be trying to incite a fellow Scot into trading insults with you,

now...would you?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:52 - ID#372344)
@ AS I Predicted....
Since we are patting ourselves on the back on the subject of Gold low
of 280.00 I also called it in my posts back in December.
I also called for Oil to drop below 17.00.
I also called within 2 days Platinum's sharp drop.
I also called for Inflation not Deflation as was the prevailing view.
I also called the markets to go down orderly ( PPT ) and not 29 style crash.
I also called yesterday for the crack in the US$ and further the fact that "they" would not allow Gold to close above 300 today.

My newest prediction is this:


Oh Yah! I also predicted that the sun was going to come out on
December 23, I think.

I hope everyone made lots of paper money today!

Charles Keeling
(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:53 - ID#344225)
Attention Asian Tigers!!!
Support your paper money with gold reserves
and find happiness with monetary stability.

Asian Currency Values

The following table shows the
drop in value of Asian currencies
since July 1997. Currency
movements are in percentage
terms and reflect the local unit's
fall against the dollar ( the fall in
the dollar price of the currency,
which is the reciprocal of units
per US$ ) .
Units per
July 1
- 78.85
Thai Baht
- 52.21
- 49.37
- 44.12
- 37.97
- 17.67
- 18.68
Hong Kong
- 0.06
Indian rupee
- 7.53

(Fri Jan 23 1998 17:59 - ID#390214)
Willie had more on the side(four other women) Go Gold!
Oldman is Slick down for the count? Tape recordings of Lewinsky's telephone conversations made by her coworker, according to CBS, include her

complaint that Clinton was cheating on her with four other women during the 18 months of an affair, three of whom she

claimed were White House staff members. Attorney Ginsburg said that during hours of talks with Lewinsky last week,

while he was not present, FBI agents and U.S. attorneys working for independent prosecutor Kenneth Starr asked her

to be outfitted with a secret tape recorder to capture the comments of others. He said he was not permitted to say

whether Starr's potential targets were President Clinton and Clinton's confidant, Vernon Jordan.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:00 - ID#238295)
TZADEAK: But were you bearish on gold throughout 1997 as were Hepcat and LGB?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:00 - ID#252150)
Marvellous stuff. I don't know if it will mean much to the tens of millions of unemployed Chinese peasants that are roaming & probably will soon be rioting throughout a large portion of China.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:01 - ID#339320)

ANOTHER, my Friend:
I *know* ( the ) BIG TRADER ( s ) have no time for
washing hogs...but it seems, alot of people here do.
I am glad that you shrugged off some of the
degenerates remark..... you truely are a gentleman
AND a man.

I profoundly thank you for your information.... yes, it
has made a difference. ( Call it the Golden Satori )
With this last tie between OPEC and the U.S. gov,
everything else is history, and all present economic
disorder falls exactly into place.
Please continue posting.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:03 - ID#238422)
Would you please explain today's action when
gold went up $9.00 and oil dropped $0.30.

According to your scenario gold and oil should
move in one direction.

Thank you.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:08 - ID#372344)
@ Old Gold...
I had been bearish on Gold since the start of the great equities Bull
back in the R. Reagan era and have only turned bullish very recently
as my posts here first indicated.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:10 - ID#339320)

If I may interject, study the works of Sun Tzu, and you
will better understand ANOTHER. I will risk to say
that he has very little use for the novels put forth in
your Holy Bible.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:12 - ID#238422)
John Disney
John, numbers always tell the truth.
You are a good mathematician, my friend.

Same goes for Sandvik speeds and feeds
chart, amazingly it worked. Sandvik
lab didn't lie, I'll buy more Absolute
and Volvo ( or Saab ) as a token of my
appreciation to Swedish guys.

Will e- mail you soon with some info...
...regarding top secret recipe for
my favorite tomato salad. You gonna
love it.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:12 - ID#30116)
John Disney
While looking through my holdings, I discovered that I was the proud owner of some S.A. shares. Even more amazing was the out- performance of those shares compared to the N.A. shares I'm holding. :- )

I have always had a spot reserved for some S.A. shares in my holdings. I find that when they perform, they perform well. My question was more along the lines of some un- reported news happening. I guess the 'un- reported' news was that gold was going to rise? :- ) )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:26 - ID#26793)
The Dow/Gold move of 1 full ounce for the week is quite unusual. I looked back over the years. There are at least 20 years when it did not move that much in a full year. Additionally, in spite of the $9 move in metal the XAU/Spot Ratio remained in what traditionally has been "safe" territory. Also, tonight we are 10% down from the December 9th peak of 28.44. It all looks pretty good on an updated chart.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:27 - ID#57232)
Gold Rally vs Gold bottom
All: Today's XAU performance was impressive! 10% up in one day does look like we have a gold bottom. But - - I think we should all be very aware that the rise in gold/gold stocks may very well have been due to the 1.5% drop in the dollar, and not a primary shift in gold sentiment! I don't want to spoil anyones thunder, but I think we should be cautious about jumping in with both feet - - for the following reason:

If the dollar drops precipitously, say more than several percent a day, for several days, the stock market might crash - - just as it did in 1987. Then gold stocks would be a very bad bet for two reasons - - the PTT might step in and push gold/gold stocks one more time - - or gold stocks might get sucked down just as they were in 1987. AG will use everything in his power to protect the dollar if it drops too quickly.

My point is that I think we should not jump into gold with both feet until after a significant stock market correction, or when we see steady accumulation into gold stocks. I think we will have plenty of opportunity to invest in gold stocks in the years to come without risking all of our assets right now. Some of us are experts with options, where the risk is much less - - this may be the best way to profit when we may be riding on the top of a gold bug Tsunami!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:28 - ID#368244)

I will not argue, and to you sir , I say to each his own!!!

I love reading all forms of novels, in fact, I probably would enjoy your's.

Bart Kitner (Kitco)
(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:28 - ID#26395)
Layman's terms
To Snowbird: The strategy only works when you already own the physical silver and you'd like to keep it. Looking at today's closing prices, you can sell your silver for $5.94. You can also buy a May futures contract for $5.885. The futures contract is like any other legal agreement - you promise to pay $5.885 per ounce for the silver that the seller commits to deliver in May. So not only do you make five and half cents an ounce but you also get to invest the cash for a minimum three month and a half return. Effectively, you've leased your metal.

That's the theory. In practice there are transaction costs you'd want to justify so it may or may not be worth it.

Others here have talked about defaults on the silver contracts. When somebody defaults it means they don't deliver your silver when they said they would. See my next post.

Bart Kitner (Kitco)
(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:30 - ID#26395)
Silver Contract Defaults
To Ted Butler:

There's always a risk that COMEX may default but it's like the same type of risk that banks for example won't honor their financial commitments. At the worst I would expect that they would just make you wait a little longer for delivery or maybe roll your contract forward to the next delivery month. When there were defaults in the OTC platinum market ( summer of 1997 ) they just ended up waiting an extra few days for deliveries. No big deal for the guys leasing it.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:31 - ID#287312)
Gold Leases ?
Can anyone answer the following questions for me please.
Who are the major leasers of gold and silver ?
Is the interest on the lease based on the value of gold at the time of borrowing or is it calculated by current value ?
Why did silver lease rates rise to 9% from it's historical 1 to 1.5% ?
If anyone can answer I would be most grateful.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:33 - ID#210114)
Reagan, Clinton, and Debt
Am delighted to see gold get through the $US300 barrier ( just ) . Let's see if it holds.

On the subject of debt; the hostility on this page towards Clinton is misplaced. I remind you that it was in the 1980s that the US went from creditor nation to debtor nation. This was through the policies of Reagan, not Clinton.

Reagan cut taxes and massively increased government defence spending giving the US budget deficits in the $US100 billion region year after year. "Reaganomincs" I think it was called.

Actually, it was a wonderful vindication of Keynesian theory. The US had its best ever peacetime boom.

Up, up and away for gold ( I hope ) .

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:36 - ID#210114)
Agreed. Let's be cautious; don't want to get caught in another sucker's rally like that of October.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:39 - ID#372344)
@ Spock...
The Media reports the price of cash Gold which closed at $299.25
and not the Feb Comex contract for Gold which closed at #300.30

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:43 - ID#339320)

My post to you was sincere, and matter- of- fact,
with no hidden intentions.
I apologize that it was taken wrong.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:48 - ID#288295)
PAASF vs Silver

Who says stocks aren't predictable? - For the number cruncher silver bugs:

A regression analysis of Pan American Silver ( PAASF ) shares vs. nearby silver futures over 508 continuous trading days, in up and down markets, yields the following correlation:

PAASF ( $/share ) = 2.73 x silver price ( $/oz ) - $6.03

The correlation yields the following share price vs. silver price: $10.35 @ $6 silver, $13.08 @ $ 7 silver, $15.81 @ $ 8 silver, $18.54 @ $ 9 silver, $21.27 @ $ 10 silver, $48.57 @ $ 20 silver

Now, all we have to do is find out what price silver is going to go to.........

Regression summary:

Multiple R 0.888123

R Square 0.7887625

Adjusted R Square 0.788345

Standard Error 0.5583664

Regression coefficients

X Variable 2.7292732 Std.Error 0.0627891

Intercept - 6.025643 Std.Error 0.3182666

Upper 95% confidence

X Variable 2.852636

Intercept - 5.400356

Lower 95% confidence

X Variable 2.6059138

Intercept - 6.650929

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:50 - ID#301318)
BANGKOK, Jan 22 ( AFP ) - In a bid to help boost Thailand's
foreign reserves, the army Thursday kicked off its latest patriotic
campaign aimed at persuading people to donate their gold to the
government to swap it for dollars.
The campaign, starting January 25 and lasting until February 2,
will collect gold from the people, melt it down and and sell it
overseas in exchange for dollars.
Army commander General Chettha Thanajaro said he wanted Thais to
hand over their their gold without any recompense except a
certificate and badge from the "Thais Help Thais" campaign.
That campaign was launched in December as part of a drive to
rally national spirits amid the economic crisis.
The army said gold shops in Bangkok quickly responded to
Thursday's call, donating 25 kilograms ( 55 pounds ) worth 215,000
dollars. Organisers did not project the amount of gold the campaign
is expected to collect.
The Bank of Thailand spent most of the country's nearly 40
billion dollars of official foreign reserves in May in a failed
defence of the baht.

Imagine there is no Clinton,
Above us only sky.
Imagine all the people,
Livin' life with Gold, wah hah ho!

You may say'ay I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one.
I hope someday'ay you'll join us.
And the world would will trade as one.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:50 - ID#254269)
Korean debt talks continue;

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:52 - ID#302251)

My grandma just called me from her sailboat, she heard that gold jump nine dollars. She said that so far only Sean David Morton and "ANOTHER" proved to be correct. She asked me to request you to listen carfully to "ANOTHER" and listen to the interviews with Morton on the Art Bell Archives. Last interview she thinks was maybe on Dec- 29- 97.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:53 - ID#228100)
Spock -- Good point about Ronnie!
Reagan provided one simple contribution: Leadership.

He made certain that he chose the right people for administration and cabinet positions, then let just them do their jobs.

Sure, the 1980's were good for the economy, but look at the other contributions that can be traced back to that one president:

The collapse of communism - Elimination of a 30 year old nuclear threat to the U.S.

Peace - Sadaam Hussein would have known better than to invade Kuwait when Reagan was in office!

Lower inflation, unemployment, oil prices... I could go on for hours...

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:55 - ID#254269)
Indonesian debt crisis; (I don't think this has been posted, apologies if it's a duplicate;

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:56 - ID#269409)
@ Gold's rise..... a new indicator
This is only SLIGHTLY tongue in cheek. read this article on the U.S. Treasury crash today, due to the U.S. dollars fall ( and hence Gold's rise ) , and you'll see a direct link between Gold's nice rise, and Bill CLinton's uhhh DIFFERENT kinda rise ( and subsequent fall ) . GoldBugs, Bill Clinton turns out to be your best pal....

Friday January 23, 6:19 pm Eastern Time

U.S. Treasuries end sharply lower as dollar dives

By Steven Scheer

NEW YORK, Jan 23 ( Reuters ) - U.S. Treasuries continued to slump, falling sharply on Friday as a slide in the dollar
triggered large bond liquidations.

At the 1500 EST/2000 GMT futures market close, the benchmark 30- year bond was at 102, down 1- 18/32 from Thursday. Its
yield soared to 5.98 percent from 5.85 percent, its highest level of the year and highest since closing at 6.02 percent on
December 11, 1997.

Initially, it was the dollar's decline that sparked the selloff from large hedge funds.

In late trading, the dollar was at 125.65 yen and 1.7760 marks, from 127.12 yen and 1.8040 marks.

``People are concerned about what is going on in Washington,'' said Bill Kirby, co- head trader at Prudential Securities Inc,
noting foreign accounts were selling dollar- denominated assets. ``It's reflected in our market and the equity market.''

Stocks were lower again on Friday, with the Dow Jones industrial average down 45 points.

After closing sharply lower on Thursday, Treasuries continued their skid during the night during overseas trading.

A brief respite of retail buying at the lows fueled further profit- taking across the board, with futures leading the way,
although it took a while to get going due to a delayed opening at the Chicago Board of Trade.

Traders said selling came from everywhere and every excuse was used, from Clinton's woes, to the dollar dive, the surge in
gold prices and stabilization in Asian markets.

Bonds found support at around 5.91 percent and by early afternoon, traders expected the market escpape the ugly session with
losses of no more than three- quarters of a point.

Still, the market remained on edge.

``People are attuned to the crisis on the President,'' said Vincent Verterano, head trader at Nomura Securities International
Inc. ``They are worried about the dollar if it gets worse.''

Late in the session, the bottom fell out of the market, as the bond steamrolled its way to more than a one- point drop. Players
said a breach of the 40- day moving average of 120- 23/32 on the March bond contract triggered a technical selling wave. Fears
started to mount that the 50- day moving average of 120- 8/32 was reachable.

Helping the bond's decline were hawkish remarks from Federal Reserve officials.

In a Reuters interview, Fed Governor Ed Kelley said the risks of strong U.S. growth has not gone away. Meanwhile,
Richmond Fed President Al Broaddus warned of the U.S. economy overheating despite the Asia crisis.

Further weighing on the market was supply concerns: corporate issuance at the long end and government debt at the short end.
The Treasury will sell $26 billion of two- and five- year notes next week.

Some traders said the price movements were exaggerated by thin trading conditions. Volume according to GovPX was more
than $80 billion, 19 percent above an average Friday in the first quarter of 1997.

In late trading, the two- year note was at 100- 12/32, down 6/32, while its yield jumped to a two- week high of 5.42 percent
from 5.30 percent on Thursday.

The spread between the two- and 30- year yields widened to 56 basis points - - its most since October 28, 1997 - - from 55 basis

The five- year note was down 15/32 to 100- 15/32 to yield 5.51 percent and the 10- year note was at 103- 8/32, down 26/32, to
yield 5.68 percent - - its highest level of 1998.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:57 - ID#302251)

My grandma just called me from her sailboat, she heard that gold jump nine dollars. She said that so far only Sean David Morton and "ANOTHER" proved to be correct. She asked me to request you to listen carfully to "ANOTHER" and listen to the interviews with Morton on the Art Bell Archives. Last interview she thinks was maybe on Dec- 29- 97.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 18:58 - ID#301318)
Quote of the month

Henry Kissinger:

" He ( also ) pledged he would lobby Congress for greater US support
of Thailand, saying many Congressmen were ignorant of the outside

An understatement!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:01 - ID#60253)
I feel this way also:

Do you really hold dollars?

It is important to understand that few persons or governments hold US dollars! Look at any investment portfolio and what you will find are assets denominated in US$. This sounds simple, but it is not. You have heard the phrase, money is moving into real estate, land, oil, stocks or bonds. It is a bad meaning, as it does not what it says.

All modern digital currencies do not go into an investment, they move THRU it. The US unit is only an exchange medium to acquire assets valued in dollars. US government bonds are the usual holding. No CB holds any currency! They hold the bonds of that currency. The major problem today, is that digital currencies have erased the currency denominations of all government/nation debt holdings! Even thou a debt is marked as DM, USA, YEN, they are in real time / marked to the market and cross valued in all currencies! No currency asset, held by CBs today are valued in the light of a single issuing country, rather all currencies are locked together. To lose one large national currency, is to lose the entire structure as we know it!

There is an alternative. Gold! It is the only medium that currencies do not move thru. It is the only Money that cannot be valued by currencies. It is gold that denominates currency. It is to say gold moves thru paper currencies. Gold can be used to revalue any asset, and not be destroyed in the process!

Mr. JTF has asked:  I would be very interested in your response to my comments regarding why "paper gold" trading cannot distort the price of physical gold significantly - 


In times of plenty, people say one thing about physical gold, but in time of change they do the opposite. History has shown that when paper assets start to be revalued downward by gold ( gold rises ) , its physical supply dries up! People and governments HOLD the real physical and trade the paper, even gold paper. Never before in history have we had a

gold market such as todays! It has cross currents from every direction.

You have CBs that highly value gold, but need its price in currencies to fall as a means of pricing oil.

You have merchant banks creating a huge digitized paper gold market for trading only.

You have other CBs holding gold in the form of paper commitments and calling it physical.

You have some CBs having nothing to do with any of this and buying in the off market.

And finally, we have the threat of gold becoming an oil currency with the risk of total nationalization by any country that is short of both oil and gold!

The Paper Gold Market today could completely destroy the physical market by shutting down all possible trading as the currencies are devalued by gold in a massive upheaval!

The Hatt
(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:02 - ID#294232)
Mutual Fund Meltdown! Short squeeze like we have never seen before!
As paper moves from strong hands to weak it is becoming evident that these so called expert money managers are beginning to show signs of stress! Just heard a money manager for a large fund say and I quote, " I am confused by what I see in the markets." Now how would you feel about this person throwing your money into a bear market providing the liquidity that allows the rich to steal from the poor. It is here and we are about to experience for the second time in 69 years a full blown market crash where the divergence between the wealthy and the poor will end up looking like todays bond market.
Gold is just starting to move as we all could feel the sentiment beginning to change in late December. How anyone thinks that the short positions will end up rescued in this case is beyond me. The squeeze will force a dramatic move in gold that will in turn cause panic and more FEAR which will only add fuel to the fire. Countries such as Canada will have a real PR job to do once the Canadians realize that they have been sold out and the loonies only backing is the same group of idiots that sold them out. If Clinton resigns or impeachment hearings begin Gold will be the only safe haven and estimates of $1000.00- $2000.00 an ounce could be on the consearvative side. Let us all remember to have empathy for those who have lost thier life savings and remember that you get what you give in life!!!!!!!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:03 - ID#210114)
Year 2000
I'm sorry but I disagree. Reagan didn't lead. He had a questionable intellect and Nancy and that astrologer stuf..Hmmmm

The economic recovery was good; but it was all done using debt and debt is the very thing which the goldbugs are always complaining about.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:05 - ID#389196)
APH and $300.00 gold..

I respect your analysis on gold and noticed that you suggested
gold would hit $300.00 then back off to a new low. Are you
still of this conviction? Pleas e- mail me

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:05 - ID#210114)
There you go!! Bill Clinton is saving the goldbug's arses!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:07 - ID#376309)
Gc vs Si
WOW! What a day. Just for the record gold did out pace silver today, perhaps slightly but non- the- less it did! Sure is nice to see up moves like this. There is much more to come!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:17 - ID#269191)
Spock and Reagan
And what do you think Clinton's economy has been built on? Debt!
Foreign debt.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:17 - ID#57115)
Gold= Money or a commodity?
There was a 300ton gap between supply and demand for AU in 1996, gap @400 tons in 1997 and expect it to move onto 540 ton gap in 1998, THX to Clinton he has the worl on edge and some in the MKT prepare for the bad word. Would like events to stay status quo, expect mkt to rally to @9000 by mid year, but If we have a major change who knows what Gore could do.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:18 - ID#364147)
Here's a SCARY thought
TIPPER as 'First Lady'............

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:18 - ID#348129)
glenn: Glad to see your on board. Hope you dumped your short position a while ago. Todays move will be eclipsed in the weeks/months to come.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:19 - ID#376309)
interesting. Yauger was looking for the xau to go to 76.00 which is where it closed today.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:19 - ID#255284)

To your scenario I would add: Never before has there been a concerted campaign by CBs to belittle gold in the eyes of the Western public. That has. I suspect, kept the demand for physical gold low.

3 Questions, if I may

1 Does silver play a role in this re- monitisation of gold?
2 The work of Roy Jastram supports your contentions concerning the increasing commodity value of gold in general commodity price deflation. What, though, are your thoughts concerning other commodities in this forthcoming currency deflation? Food and housing, raw materials and manufactured goods?
3 Will we see international trade treaties collapse as countries raise barriers and deflated currencies in a "beggar thy neighbour" response to this gold revaluation?
Thank you

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:21 - ID#426220)


ORACLE has discovered yet another investment vehicle, whereby the hapless Asians might have SAVED EVEN MORE of their destroyed wealth - IN FACT CONSIDERABLY MORE!: SILVER.

The report shows charts depicting the price of SILVER in the five
beleaguered currencies during the last six months: Thailand's baht, Indonesia's rupiah, Malaysia's ringgit, Philippines' peso and South Korea's won. RESULTS ARE ASTOUNDING!

Whereas GOLD was and is a bonanza for Asians, SILVER is indeed a TREASURE- HOUSE. Even the most blind and ardent adherent to paper money is forced to concede THE VISUAL PROOF OF THE SILVER SAVIOR.

To read the report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:21 - ID#269191)
The gap between mine supply ( 2400 tons ) and fabrication demand ( jewelery,
3700 tons ) was 1300 tons according to Gold Fields Mineral Services.
That gap was closed by 393 tons of net central bank sales, and 500 tons
of gold loans and about 800 tons of scrap.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:23 - ID#57115)
Haven or Hell
I still do not trust gold a whole lot, The EU is still discussing if gold is going to play a part in the new euro, and if so how much, Luckily for Gold bugs the german's favor gold in the euro. The final decision shud be made @ mid year. I do not think that Gold can return to the $375.00 range it held from 93'- 96'. But I do like NEM and ABX a whole lot!!!! Low cost producers.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:25 - ID#302251)

Date: Sun Jan 18 1998 20:35
Ziva ( OLDMAN Vs ZIVA ) ID#302251:
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= =

Date: Sun Jan 18 1998 00:08
Oldman ( Gold Bottom ) ID#199183:
Ziva: I am still of the opinion that gold has NOT bottomed yet.
I am NOT of the opinion that it will fall to $250 retroactively:
I do think the price will hit the 250 range soon, however.
*********************************** of the most respected people in Gold trading.
A person of wonderful personal integrity,
very rarely matched today. A person with class.
A humanitarian, philosopher and philanthropist .
A person of deep ethical convictions
and thorough knowledge of history.
A person with many successful years of GOLD and stocks trading.
A person which I am humbly honored to share this forum with.
( I realize some question: what in the h_ll am I doing at Kitco ) .

OLDMAN said ........GOLD at 250 soon.
ZIVA said ( Dec.29.1997 ) : GOLD BOTTOM WAS AROUND 280

Ziva.......a simple woman who likes to be a tail to the KITCO lions
with hope to learn something eventually.
Betting the whole farm that Gold has bottomed around 280.
With no GOLD trading knowledge,
Ziva used just common sense.

Date: Fri Jan 16 1998 14:36
Ziva ( GOLD IS AT THE BOTTOM ( Dec.29.1997 ) ) ID#302251:
My husband said that from all the famous psychics in the USA,
only Sean David Morton has 100% accuracy rate
about Stock Market trends. My husband wish to pass to you that
this scientist/psychic said on Dec- 29- 1997 that:
 is the time to buy GOLD.
Sooooo Faaaaar he is correct.
I listened to that interview at:
Click on Dec- 29

Where is Mike Sheller today ?
280 was the bottom.....

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:26 - ID#376309)
I was not short today. I was hoping for us to fill the gap at 287.00 and I was going ot buy Dec99 calls. I did move a bunch of money into fidelity select precious metals very close to the bottom and I did post that move. I bought under 9.00 and it closed above 10.00 today. I'm turning very bullish but we could go lower on monday. I hope slick takes care of this problem going into tuesday and gold pulls back so that I can buy more calls. For here on out I'm using all pullbacks to buy dec99 and jun99 calls.

By the way, even though I do think that gold WILL out pace silver I also believe that the low at $4.20 will hold for a very long time. Infact, longer term even if the silver market does crash, $5.00 should hold.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:26 - ID#60253)

Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 18:03

oris ( ANOTHER ) ID#238422:

Would you please explain today's action when

gold went up $9.00 and oil dropped $0.30.

According to your scenario gold and oil should

move in one direction.

Mr. Oris, Oil is by far a much larger market than gold.

Many times over. Oil may be taken to $12/US, but this

is not a trading move. Only business. $12 oil did not require

gold to drop below $320 or so, as gold must stay above

perceived production cost. The drive to $280 was by the

paper market outside. The intent is for long term asset balance

not destruction! However, the currency market is close to

taking extreme moves. That will over ride intended results.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:27 - ID#288295)

Yvan ( Auger ) 's chart is also calling for the XAU to fall to 35 ( ultimately ) . Didn't look that way today, did it? One ( good one ) for the gold bugs!


(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:28 - ID#286234)
Good call. Give us then, a gold pointer after your handle. Please.
Like this

LGB/ = gold banana up
LGB- = gold banana neutral
LGB\ = gold banana down

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:29 - ID#224149)
The Canadian Dollar was down again today .- - - - - Ted Why? Do we peg the C$ to Clinton's Zipper. - - - - - - April Gold Volume 46682- - - not to impressive for a move of over 9.00.- - - Away to catch the 589876 amours of Clinton

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:31 - ID#269191)
LGB and Clinton
Gold has been rising in Asia on strong buying. Every time the price
weakens new Asian buying has entered the market. If Clinton was the
big catalyst why didn't gold rise when the news came out. The reaction
has been delayed, don't you think?

Clinton is just an excuse for the dollar to sell off on its worsening
fundamental position. Starting with the January trade numbers which
will be released in March, the trade gap will start expanding briskly and
the Fed is hamstrung from raising rates to defend the currency. The
U.S. money supply is growing at double digit rates for M- 3 and the economy should start to slow with the expanding trade gap. Actually
your prediction of stagflation ( if you were serious ) is actually looking
Also Rubin's resignation perhaps is imminent.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:33 - ID#57115)
DEJ : Net central Bank sales
One of my problems is the concept of the continous leaching process which could drop the Cash cost of gold into the low$100/oz range. Newmont itself would have to revamp there production lines. Expect net central banks sales to @400- 450 tons for the foreseeable, less then the amount needed to push overall supply above demand.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:35 - ID#20137)
Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 19:26

ANOTHER can you comment on the possibilities of the creation of an Asian currency backed by gold. Our assumptions make China the most likely country to make this move, they made mention of this more than three years ago.
(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:35 - ID#431203)
Gold UP, with Deflation, is the natural order.
Historically, this is nothing new. I've been visiting kitco for almost a year now. It is obvious that most of us, caught up in this make- believe

Santa- Clause Economy, built now for generations on the really BIG LIE:

an economic "foundation" of artificially created money & credit, created out of nothing; empowering the power- centers of the world to contol the destinies of nations, and the fate of millions.

I have a chart in front of me, from 1973, when I first embarked on economic seminars in the SF Bay Area, entitled: "What Makes the U.S. Economy Tick? - & Why It is a Ticking Time Bomb!" It had a longer fuse than I'd figured/surmised, at that time. But now, the fuse is, indeed, running out.

Gold is money, pure, enduring, stable, and simple. Deflation happens to currencies and credit instruments, just as inflation does, because these are the artificial contrivances of contriving, manipulating men and their institutions that power- broker the fate of the world, ( meanwhile lining their pockets behind closed doors and in smokey corners ) .

Deflation is the rising value of false money, and its concurrent abandonment of use in exchange. Its slow but inexorable disappearance from circulation, commmerce, and trade, will spiral the spreading world- wide delation into a self- feeding cancer of no return.

As the paper money & electronic credit of the corrupted realm, begin to decline into their inevitable demise, a crisis of distrust and repudiation; the world will have to resort to real money to save itself from isolationism, trade barriers, trade- wars, and ultimate ruin.

Gold- based money is the only historically proven monetary & credit life- boat, in this spreading sea of red ink, an ocean- flood, awash in corrupted, careening, uncontrollable paper currencies from all over the world - - scripted in every image & writ imaginable.

Whatever their name & "pedigree", they are empty i.o.u.s' of government's currency & debt paper promises - - nothing but promisory notes promising nothing, in return...if push comes to the peoples of the Asian Tigers are rudely awakening, to discover the horror of this reality. And it is spreading, yes, even to our hallowed, salty shores. ( We Americans, are long overdue giving up our self- absorbed, insular, center- of- the- universe, ethno- centric perceptions of reality. )

There are many trillions of these i.o.u.s, swirling & swash- buckling around the world, for the control- centers and power- grabbers of the highest bidder, to slug it out, over. And billions more i.o.u.s are being electronically- and printingpress- produced, weekly.

Once upon a time, counterfeiting ws against the law, even for

governments, and their favored bankers.

These government currency and debt paper instruments - bills, bonds, etc.; are simply so many government issued "checks" to you and I, & to all other goverment paper buyers ( like the Japanese ) . We simply haven't discovered yet, except among the Asian Tigers, that these 'checks' can bounce. We haven'tv- YET - all turned them in, for collection, at the same time. Don't wait to be at the end of the line.

Used to be, you the bearer of the curency or Treasury debt note, could get paid, with the paper redeemed, at any time, anywhere, in real money, gold & /or silver.

Governments the world over, will ultimately, by the force of natural events as they unfold, return to sane, stable, unshakable foundations for their monetary and economic structures and institutions. ( It simply isn't nice to fool "mother- nature". ) Sooner or later, the piper will

have to be paid; the debts will be honored and repaid, or reputiated with the corresponding pain thus unleashed.

One, inevitable, fine day, the peoples & powers- centers of the world, will at last return to the discipline & integrity of gold money & gold- based credit instruments, in an international economy ruled by a commitment to banking principles based on integrity, open books; and universal principles and standards, that will be the bedrock of world- wide, productivity, flourishing trade, and creative technologies that will build us into the new millenium, beyond our wildest imaginations.

Oh yes, I almost forgot: the '73 chart is an overlay chart of the per- centage changes in the stock of HM, overlaying the crashing DJIA, from 1929, to 1932. HM, after an early fall in late 29, rose in the early '30s, appreciating 500% ,as the stock market crashed, relentlessly, time and again.... - wiping out the livelihoods & fortunes of millions.

Granted, the private citizenry's gold was government confiscated and then arbitrarily revalued from about $20/oz to $33/oz. by none other

than good ole FDR himself. He was, afterall, caught between a rock & a hard place, indeed.

Even so, the deflationary spiral of the 30s' repeating now in the '90s, for many of the same reasons ( - we never seem to learn ) , will witness once again, a bull market in gold, that will surprise a world awash in wishful thinking, denial, mis- education, and manipulation.

The rule of the day continues to be: sell out to the charade of the blind who keep leading the blind - like so many leemings rushing headlong over the cliff of the coming stock market crash, and into the crushing, crashing sea of wiped out fortunes - - including their life- savings, their retirement funds, their investmentnest- egg to pay for the kids' college educations.

There is a current educational crisis alright - - a monetary, finanacial, and investment one - - that calls for immediate attention, and action.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:36 - ID#220325)

Thank you for the excellent explanation. You have a great site and it is appreciated.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:37 - ID#57115)
Kitco discussions
I must say that this is by far the best mkt/investment discussion page. Everybody has an intelligent and interesting perspective. Postings are on the topic....not about meaningless drivel.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:37 - ID#302251)

Date: Mon Jan 19 1998 00:31
Ziva ( ZIVA ON THE RECORD: WW3 STARTS IN 1998 ) ID#302251:
We all know that the Gold market is manipulated.
So, what are we doing here at Kitco ?

whether the weight of events in 1998
will make it impossible for the manipulators to stop the avalanche.
And I am betting on GOLD to be well above 1000 by the end of 1998.
1998 will not be your usual investment year.
In 1998 all the market distortions that kitcoits pointed out
so eloquently, will be brought into balance.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:38 - ID#432221)
What the hell?
Just got home, looked at the market graphs. What the hell caused this?
Gore for Pres in 98!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:40 - ID#348129)
@President AL
glenn: I concur that Monday Gold could pull back. I've noticed in the last few weeks that it weakens in the early part of the week, to finish strongly on Friday. I remember that at the height of the 79/80 rally,
it kept repeating this patern.
As for Bubba, I mentioned early this week that he is finished.
The story has snowballed since then, and new evidence is pilling up by the hour. Having problems keeping up.
I predict Bubba's fate will be sealed within 2 weeks.
This is the best TV soap material i've seen since the Clarence Thomas hearings......

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:43 - ID#288295)


Well said.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:44 - ID#57115)
Ziva, $1000/oz?
Ziva, You must be buying a whole lot of XAU callls or writing puts? $1000? Some companies have taken a beating....such as Pegasus Gold . I can't forsee gold passing the $375/oz this year. Expect Dow to move forward to @9000 by mid year before the economy starts to overheat, hopefully by this time the Asia mkts will have consolidated, thus spurring on tech sector, and other mkts.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:45 - ID#364147)
Poorboys...............and Canadian Dollar.......
I don't know why it was down again ( sob...sob... ) but ABX tempered my 'pain' today anyway......

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:46 - ID#410324)
double bottom
I didn't notice anyone mentioning one very important aspect of today's gold market, which was the successful completion of a double bottom in both the bullion price and stock prices. The first bottom occurred on December 9, 1997 and the second one on January 12th 1998. Today's significance was that we closed, both in terms of bullion and stocks above the first reaction high. My conclusion is that this pattern greatly diminishes downside risk in both markets. However it doesn' tell us much yet about the upside. Hopefully that will come in due time through improved fundamentals and prices, but the first bullish step has been made!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:46 - ID#60253)

Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 19:19

aurator ( & c. ) ID#255284:


Mr. Aurator, Silver will always be part of gold money. But, is far too small a market for large, modern economies. Silver will do far better than any paper asset, only it will serve better as a personal holding than as a major money. If it is of your way to balance wealth, then silver will show value.

Metals have not shown their true worth for many years as the world has done very well. This is very good. But, all things do change! As it is our time and place to live this change, our thoughts must view the future as it must be. Who can know the minds of men and countries as paper burns?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:49 - ID#20137)
Excuse me is there talk about Rubin resigning???? or is this just a BIG rumor???

Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 19:31
DEJ ( LGB and Clinton ) ID#269191:

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:51 - ID#364147)
Stupor Bowl Prediction
Denver will pull off the biggest SB upset since SB3 when Joe Willie+ the Jets defeated the 17 point favorite Baltimore Colts~~~~~~

Bill El Zebub
(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:53 - ID#261352)
Old Gold ,JTF, Donald, Will the upcoming months rally the AU prior to collapse
of the market as in the past? Is the order of action; buy S& P puts,sell
the puts at collapse and buy the metal at the bottom of 240? Thanks.PS:
Old Gold are you an older person? Hindsight is 20/20.Enlighten me please!!!!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:54 - ID#348129)
Please, we don't need WW3 to get Gold to $1000. A simple asset revaluation would do the trick and there would be
no losers ( except the shorts ) .
ANOTHERS scenario is entirely possible, but I would rather see an orderly revaluation by the markets. If the powers continue to stand in the way and supress Gold, it will be a violent upswing, with possible limit up days.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:56 - ID#364147)
Gold according to GARP
WSJ version of Gold is:Gold Market Springs to Life,
Settling Above $300 an Ounce


Gold futures rose above $300 an ounce on Friday for the first time in two
months as the dollar weakened against major currencies, making it
cheaper to buy and hold the precious metal.

A continued fall in the U.S. dollar accelerated inflation- hedge buying,
pushing the active February gold contract up $9 to settle at $300.30 an
ounce on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange.

Precious metals surged early Friday after a large fund house bought heavily
into the market, producing a "domino effect" of buying interest, analyst Joe
Rosta at CPM Group said. "We saw increased demand from institutional
and small investors moving assets back into gold," Mr. Rosta said.

Market participants said allegations that President Clinton had an affair
with a White House intern and asked her to lie about it have shaken
investor confidence overseas in the dollar.

And with other world currencies still shaky from the effects of the Asian
economic crisis and the U.S. stock market treading water, precious metals
are once more being eyed as a good investment tool.

"We need the continued uncertainty in currency markets and equity
markets for gold to continue to climb," Mr. Rosta noted.

Gold prices have climbed nearly 7% in just two weeks after hitting their
lowest level in more than 18 years amid concerns about waning investor
interest and heavy central bank sales.

Silver futures also rose sharply amid continued diminishing inventories in
Nymex warehouses, Refco analyst James Steel said. Stocks fell to 107.5
million ounces, down 1.06 million ounces Thursday, the exchange
reported, to the lowest since June 3, 1985.

March silver rose 17.50 cents to $5.893 an troy ounce.

In other commodity markets:

GRAINS: Grains and soybeans closed mixed Friday on the Chicago
Board of Trade.

Wheat futures rose after the government

(Fri Jan 23 1998 19:59 - ID#26669)
Talked to an Indian friend today about gold. FWIW
My friend went back home to India to visit a few weeks ago. She said she had almost zero hassle from Indian customs which was highly unsusual. All the last 2 decades when she'd visited she had to fill out lots of forms, cost estimates et cetera. This time she just said 'This is my wedding jewelry' and was waved on through. But she had MAJOR hassles buying any new gold. The complex sort of things she wanted were not available and even the tiny little necklace she did buy to bring back to the US took much longer than anticipated for the goldsmith to make...

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:01 - ID#224149)
Clinton Zipper + Ziva = My Poor C$ - - - Cuba Hear I come - - - The sandy beach - - - - Blessed by the pope- - - - Away to find SOMEONE to save the C$.

Strad Master
(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:09 - ID#250297)
BILL G, AURIC, TOLERANT1, TED, SHULTZ, PROMETHEUS, AURATOR, 223, IDT, ROR, WISECRACKER, SHAREFIN, VRONSKY, CHEROKEE, ELF, SELBY, STUDIO R, GRAMPA, SAM, and THE WONDERFUL PEOPLE WHO E- MAILED US: Heartfelt thanks to you all for your charming, thoughtful, warm, and funny, posts and/or e- mails congratulating us on the birth of Katalin Terz. Each and every one has been printed out and saved in a special Kitco file so that we can show her how much love from the four corners of the world welcomed her into life. She is a real delight and ( despite her potential for high decibel sound generation ) remarkably quiet thus far. Sorry that it has taken me a full week to get to thanking everyone. Actually, it hasn't been all that busy with the new baby ( my 7 year old daughter has been taking care of her almost full- time ) but rather with all the other details of life. Also, I wanted to post this up a few days ago along with Katalin's photo but I run a Mac and it wouldn't work. I spent all my time trying to figure out how to do it. I'll post it up in the next few days if I can get it to work. Again, many thanks to you all.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:13 - ID#333131)
Anticipation of EU gold reserves responsible for rally?
COMPANY NEWS ( sm ) provided by Dow Jones Online News

1/23/98 Gold Stocks Close Higher As Funds Show Renewed Interest In Meta

By Sean Davis

Staff Reporter

NEW YORK - ( Dow Jones ) - Gold stocks rose Friday as mutual funds showed a renewed interest in the metal, analysts said.
Also lifting the share prices of mining companies was a weaker dollar, which sends gold prices higher, and a growing belief that the European Central Bank's holdings of the metal will be enough to turn around sentiment on gold. "We saw some good fund buying earlier ( Friday ) morning," said Douglas M. Cohen, an analyst at Morgan Stanley Dean Witter.
Todd A. Hinrichs, of ABN AMRO Chicago Corp., said the fund buying began last week. "Originally we were skeptical," Hinrichs said, "but now it appears people are anticipating a major event," namely, the European Central Bank's decision on its gold holdings.
The bank, Europe's version of the Federal Reserve, is still months away from making a decision, analysts said. The early betting had been that the central bank would hold 15% to 20% of its reserves in gold. But when the price of the metal softened, speculation arose that the bank would omit gold from its holdings or keep only a small amount.
However, last month German Bundesbank President Hans Tietmeyer said most European central bankers want gold in the central bank's reserves. That should firm up the price of gold, because now the central banks of Europe's member states won't have to sell off their gold, adding supply to an already weak market.
Hinrichs thinks the central bank will hold 10% of its reserves in gold, while Cohen puts gold's share at 15% to 20% . Both think their scenario is bullish for gold.
Apparently, the market agreed Friday. Homestake Mining Co. ( HM ) rose 7.7% to $9.563; TVX Gold Inc. ( TVX ) shot up 17.9% to $2.875; Barrick Gold Corp. ( ABX ) climbed 7.8% to $19; and Coeur d'Alene Mines Corp. ( CDE ) rose 5.8% to $9.125. All of the NYSE- listed stocks traded heavily. - Sean Davis; 201- 938- 5400 Copyright ( c ) 1998 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:14 - ID#26793)
@Bill El Zebub
Will the upcoming months rally the AU prior to collapse of what? I don't think I understand the question.

Since June I have felt that the proper investment strategy is to be long gold and short stocks. That was a few months too early but it has been generally correct since August if you feel as I do that no one can pick the exact top. I think with the Dow/Gold Ratio at these levels it will be several years before I would unwind that position.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:16 - ID#60253)

Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 19:35

A.Goose ( ) ID#20137:

Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 19:26


Mr. A.Goose, In our present system, all currencies are backed by the US$. As long as the US$ is on an oil standard of backing, no other country can change. The BIS would destroy their economy in a second of storm. Many think that a country may sell or cut its CB/US debt backing at will! They cannot, they willnot! Oil will not accept another system as long as the oil/gold bond works and the world currency system is somewhat in order. If a crisis erupts and gold breaks the bond with oil, then a change must take place!

We will no doubt see a mass run of CBs into gold at ANY price! This I know! As for now, each person must protect worth, as the nation/state is locked from change.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:17 - ID#238422)
Thank you for your reply. After I said that you
are probably from Nigeria, I believed you would
ignore me. NIce to know you are above this...

ANOTHER, I do think you are smart and I like your
SCENARIO, although I do not believe it is the explanation
of what is going on with price of gold.

I would like to know one more thing, if you could
comment on it. It appears that supply of market oil,
at least in the near future, is going up, so the
share of Arab oil in total oil supply goes down.
I think this is a reason for dropping oil prices.

Your comments would be appreciated.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:19 - ID#344239)
Book "Tragedy and Hope" by Carrol Quigley
Have any of you folks read this book? I understand it's about how the
{World Banks,CFR,Trilateral Comm. and the World's Elite} control the Worlds Finances.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:22 - ID#28585)
LGB, congrats on calling gold's move!

RE: SSC ( SUNSHINE ) : the market is waiting to see evidence of improved earnings. They will announce soon and I expect extraordinary things.
They are the one single, American silver company that positively, boisterously,vehemently, and accurately predicted silver's remarkable turnaround late last year.

It is a miracle the company is even around today...they performed acrobatic financial marvels to stay solvent several years ago.


(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:22 - ID#302251)
My grandma "ZIVA" just called again from her sailboat, with a question to you:
If a major military world conflict starts in the Middle East because of fanatic religious fundamentalists, both Moslems & Jewish, we and the West will definitely support Israel's fanatic religious fudamentalists.

Is there a hole underground between Israel and China ?
( I do not understand what she is talking about, but she said you will ) .


(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:25 - ID#26669)
JAG: My 2 cents
We MAY ( ??? ) be coming up on the phase of a bull market where gold shares move up WITH the broader market, leading and outpacing other market sectors. If this does happen, then when the XAU first starts to stall in the aether over 250 my personal plan is to sell and short the hell out of the highest p/e Dow stocks,then retire trembling to the fallout shelter, hopefully soon enough to get a bed away from the Portolet. :- ) All this is conjecture. It will probably be wrong, just as I hope my $5.20- spot- silver- before- Feb- 15 prediction will be. IMHO

Barb Hughes
(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:29 - ID#20783)
Many years ago I had the honor of being oka's quest...
as our busines's are quite the same. Thank you for returning with your gold & oil rational, as these folks do not understand the times of ole'
Take care...Barb

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:30 - ID#26669)
If by chance you ARE the King of Thailand, as I've conjectured before, I think you're cool. Durn, why be parsimonious. You're cool anyway.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:35 - ID#288295)

What sort of gold price would you think is needed to push the XAU to 250?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:38 - ID#60253)

Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 20:17

oris ( ANOTHER ) ID#238422:

Thank you for your reply.


The world oil market is very, very hard to understand.

If I could speak in a future time on this? I must be gone now for some time. Know this, my knowledge of gold is for the simple ones, of small thought, such as I. Resist the traders mind, hold your wealth close. There are those that will take your worth at the very time you need it most. Most will not see the time or place, few are allowed!

thank you

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:40 - ID#228128)
Silverbaron was that a linear regression
Ian McAvity commented at the N.O. Investment Conference in 1996 that PAASF moved to the third power of the change in price of Silver. That would imply a non- linear relationship between the price of silver and the cost of PAASF. Have you tried adding some polynomials to your regression to investigate the fit of a non- linear model? Just a thought. Sorry all about the jargon.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:40 - ID#252127)
The year of the Tiger, eh

This is the US "Year the Thunderpussies".

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:46 - ID#41170)
glenn- what kind of strike are you using on those june and dec


Tally Ho

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:47 - ID#288295)

Just a linear regression, but not a bad data fit. However, if anyone wants to play with the data I'll be glad to supply it in an Excel file.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:47 - ID#348129)
Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask what you can do for your

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:50 - ID#348129)
@ "With the new Clinton revelation we thought that Rubin might be the first to jump ship"

MARKET UPDATE ( 01/23/98 ) AM- - - - - Gold made a major move to the upside this morning on massive short covering and investor buying having to do with the Clinton scandals, the Asian disaster and the cratering dollar. The important Hong Kong market moved higher with short covering coming in from Japan. The Asian buying reversed the trend in New York which had gold closing down $2 in yesterday's trade. It used to be that the world followed New York. It seems that trend is changing as ravaged investors in Asia having learned their lesson are likely to buy gold at every opportunity. There was strong short covering in Hong Kong at any breach of the $290 level to the downside. One Hong Kong trader was quoted on Reuters as saying that a rally bringing gold above $300 was "a good possibility" and would be followed by a rapid rise in prices as funds rushed to cover their remaining short positions. There are also rumors of mine company covering at these levels. In all markets, the strong demand for gold has been linked to the weakening dollar - - down significantly today against all major currencies. The problems in Asia continue to worsen, and most of the stock markets across the world, including the U.S. are feeling the effect. A senior Treasury official was quoted this morning in a speech at a bankers' conference as saying that the "This crisis in Asia presents serious potential risks for U. S. interests." In Indonesia the economy has ground to a halt. Reuters reports that "almost all listed companies in that country are now technically bankrupt" - - a piece of news that escaped notice for the most part in the American press. It now takes 17,000 rupiahs to buy a dollar. An ounce of gold costs 4.95 million rupiahs!! The rupiah has cratered 65% against the dollar. I hope they some advanced calculators in that country with all those zeros flying around. One has to wonder where in the world Michael Candessus and the International Monetary Fund ( and the Clinton administration ) think these people are going to get the money to pay back what they borrowed from the IMF when all the listed businesses in the country are bankrupt. I wonder if they have any golf courses we can buy cheap??? I don't think it will be too long until the impossibility of this situation sinks in both on Wall Street and in Washington. With the Clinton administration about ready to have a fork stuck in it, things could get out of control. Stay tuned. This could get interesting.


As reported here yesterday rumors continue to circulate that RobertRubin is thinking of resigning. Now CNBC has jumped on the story and most of the financial community is now aware of what we reported here yesterday before the mainstream press. We heard about through the grapevine over a month ago but decided to keep it under our hat becuase there was little going on that we felt Rubin couldn't handle. With the new Cliniton revelation we thought that Rubin might be the first to jump ship and now the rumor is in the mainstream press. We were told that Rubin's wife did not like the Washington scene and waxed nostalgic for cozy confines of Wall Street. Quotes

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:58 - ID#228128)
Silverbaron: you mentioned a multiple R which implies multiple independent variables. So, your regression program might have done a polynomial regression anyway where it added polynomials until you got the best fit. If it did you should get a beta weight for the price of silver, price of silver squared, etc. in your output. In any event, yours is a very interesting result. I'll be happy to give it a whirl with some non- linear models and report back to the group. Can't read Excel though. If you can send the data to me as a text file ( ASCII ) I'm at

(Fri Jan 23 1998 20:58 - ID#26669)
Silverbaron XAU 250???
Please, my friend, don't accuse me of having any special knowledge about investing! Thats like listening to the shoeshine boy's stock tips. My predominant long term strategy has been to pick good stocks from dull, dead and dying market segments and then sell them when everybody wants them, all on my perception of under or over valuation. And forget linear regression analysis. The last regression program I wrote was in Pascal, long, long ago.

But to answer your question I figured that if gold got close to its '88 peak there would be a buying frenzy for at most a few days. As a ball park estimate if it gets over $460 then there is hope for XAU 250. IMVVHO

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:02 - ID#335190)
Legal Drug Sales World Wide per Year $330 Billion US @ WHAT are the yearly sales of other DRUGS EH!
January 23, 1998
Reno buries report on CIA links to dope- dealers

WASHINGTON ( AP )  U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno ordered a report on how the Justice Department dealt with people and allegations described in a newspaper series on CIA links to drug- trafficking kept secret indefinitely Friday.

It is the first time an attorney general has ever invoked provisions of the inspector- general act that allow a report to be withheld from the public if its release would reveal sensitive information. The 400- page report, A CIA- Contra Crack Cocaine Controversy: A Review of the Justice Department's Investigations and Prosecutions, is the product of a 15- month investigation triggered by August 1996 articles in the San Jose, Calif., Mercury News, Inspector General Michael Bromwich said in a statement.

In a letter to Bromwich, Reno said her decision was prompted by "law- enforcement concerns unrelated to the ultimate conclusions reached in your report." She did not elaborate on the reasons but it was learned department officials feared release might compromise an undercover operation that is expected to last an extended period.

"I disagree with her decision," Bromwich said in a statement. But he added: "It is her decision to make under the law. I...must abide by it."

The law allows Reno to restrict any inspector- general activity involving sensitive information about civil or criminal investigations, undercover operations, the identity of confidential sources or protected witnesses, intelligence matters or data damaging to national security.

Reno said the report will remain secret "until I determine that the law- enforcement longer warrant deferral of its public release."

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:08 - ID#334174)
sorry@can't resist
Clinton taken' the "o" out of "country" was good for gold.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:09 - ID#257136)
I read it covere to cover about 22- 24 yrs ago.
It contained all that you mention and a lot more. Pertains mainly ( in a nutshell ) to how the elitists ( CFR, Tilateralists or whatever ) have a beautiful plan worked out for the poor ignorant citizens of the U.S.A.. The plan speaks to the point of the social dogma of utopia and other stuff. Read it!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:10 - ID#257136)
I read it covere to cover about 22- 24 yrs ago.
It contained all that you mention and a lot more. Pertains mainly ( in a nutshell ) to how the elitists ( CFR, Tilateralists or whatever ) have a beautiful plan worked out for the poor ignorant citizens of the U.S.A.. The plan speaks to the point of the social dogma of utopia and other stuff. Read it!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:12 - ID#20137)
Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 20:50
MoReGoLd ( @ "With the new Clinton revelation we thought that Rubin might be the first to
jump ship" ) ID#348129:

Rubin's possible leaving is a major issue. The market will not have any options if Rubin announces that he is leaving FOR ANY REASON. We need to keep our eyes open for this one also. The downward pressure is growning. The DOW is lumbering and growing weaker.

Think about this. January has MAJOR influxes from IRA's, pension funds, ... etc. That is why Januyry's are usually so strong. Well, we have have the same IRA, ... rush of monies as per usual. Look where they have taken this market. They have bought all the dips, volumes have been high, the media has cheered the bounces off the daily lows, and the monies have been invested.

Come February, the IRA's, pension fund, ... influxes will not be there to support this market. Yes, it sounds scary if your a BULL.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:18 - ID#302251)
Dear Jin,
Ziva requested if you can please find more time to report to us how does it feel to go through all the currency upheavals in Indonesia. Ziva feels that we will soon go through the same experience too.
Ziva can now read you directly from her sailboat via satellite but she can not post on the Internet.
Ziva requested if you can please write in lower- case letters, as she has enough headache reading all the upper case letters in her own posts.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:20 - ID#372344)
@ Looking at the Week "ahead "with BJ Clinton......
Newmont was highly recomended tonite by R.Black on NBR......
I blelieve there is a good chance Clinton will resign before his turn is
up, the US$ and Markets wil tank ( they were going to anyway ) , and the Republicans will also get some of the blame, and their worst nightmare
Mr. GOREbotic...... BTW what do Hoover, Nixon, and Clinton have in common? They were all blamed for the markets downfall!.....In Clinton's
case it is worthy to note that ABC, whose star attack DOG
Sam Donaldson was conveniently reassigned just a couple of weeks ago to cover the white house, has been IMO leading the attack on
Clinton.... This is the same ABC with ted Koppel, Henry Kissinger etc..
at the same time Natanyahu is in town for talks with Clinton...and the movie Tail wagging the dog is No 1...all coincidence?.Something might be brewing in ME......AG and Rubin are scheduled to testify before a hostile congress next week about the Asia Glitch and $Billions in IMF needed......Should make interesting viewing.....And Tuesday of next week, BJ Clinton himself will try to deliver the State of The Union Adress to a very enthusiastic congress.... I wonder if he will get the traditional
standing ovation applause or if congress will hide ANOTHER horny
slut under the podium to "surprise" his" member" so as to make him sound in pain.... just a thought .... Who would have thunk it, the Japanese market has so far outproformed the US so far this year, I think that trend will continue....

Bill Buckler
(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:25 - ID#257234)
"The signal will come ...when a firm bottom is seen to be in on long- term ( 30- year ) Treasury bond yields. These are at their lowest level ever, and offer no risk premium at all for holders of long term $US debt."

That was published on The Privateer's "History of Gold Bottoms" page on January 9.

Two weeks ago, the idea that there was any inherent risk in holding Dollars and Treasury debt was, pure heresy. If we are going to have a global debt- based monetary system, then SOMEBODY'S debt has to be inviolate.

As the perceived risk of holding Asian currencies went up, the risk premium on holding U.S. Dollars shrank to the vanishing point. It has now re- appeared - AND HOW!

There is no other nation in the world who would sit a world leader in an ornate chair in front of their assembled media and then act like he doesn't exist. Your estimation of Yassar ( that's my baby ) Arafat is not likely to be lower than mine, but the fact remains that he is a world leader.

There are times when One can only feel a sense of acute embarrassment at the displays of one's fellow human beings. Such a time was the circus of Clinton's press conference with Arafat. The American media may think that the President's latest alleged pecadillo is the only thing that counts. The rest of the world most assuredly does not.

It is pitiful that this is what it took to push Gold back above $US 300. The fact remains, though, that US long- bond yields have now been rising for two weeks and the fall of the Dollar against the Yen and the European currencies is accelerating. The rest of the world is forming a very low opinion of U.S. leadership, at precisely the wrong time for that to happen.

All Gold pages at The Privateer are now updated. Because of the "hyphen" problem, you'll have to cut and paste the URL on the subject line to go to our website. Sorry 'bout that.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:30 - ID#376309)
Moving Averages
The following are some SPOT moving averages for gold and silver

4 day - 393.3
9 - 287.9
18 - 286.5
As of TODAY the price of gold is above the 4 day moving average which is above the 9, which is above the 18 so techincally the short term is UP

100 - 307.4
200 - 321.0
400 - 346.0
the sport price of gold is still below the 100 DMA whichi s below the 200 which is below the 400. Techincally the long term trend is DOWN!

4 - 5.83.6
9 - 5.78.3
18 - 5.89.5
The short term trend in silver is still nuetral, since the 9 DMA is below the 18.

100 - 5.28.2
200 - 4.95.1
400 - 4.97.0
Technically the long term trend is nuetral but it is about to turn BULLISH very soon! By this time next week the 200 DMA should be above the 400 DMA.

I guess the REAL question is, "will the 100 day moving average of spot gold STOP this rally?????"

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:47 - ID#432298)
My advice is, and I'm sure someone already said this, is that we should be cautious about expecting this type of continuance is the gold market.
Best to wait till the price breaks out about the 320/oz. price before fund allocations are shifted into the precious metal.

Also, I would like to make a prediction..... I predict that gold will be victorious this year, the green and gold that is. Go GreenBay, Go Packers, Go Gold!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:51 - ID#30116)
This'n that.
First, from last night...

Date: Thu Jan 22 1998 21:51

panda ( highrise @ 21:22 ) ID#30116:

Thank you for stating the facts of the latest Clinton fiasco. This time it's about more than Slicks wet willy. If the charges have merit, oh my oh my. Keep an eye

on Rubin. If he exits stage left, the show is over...

Second; The Canadian dollar at 140 year lows versus the U.S. dollar? Could it be that they sold off all of their gold reserves? Hmmmm... Fireworks must be in the offing. The Canadian Central banks efforts at intervention were a dismal failure. To those who think that the Central Banks are omnipotent, think again. Who knows, maybe they'll be the ones driving gold towards infinity as they bid for it? Nah, just another kooky goldbug thing.... :- )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:52 - ID#267276)
3 cubed
I went to the library a couple of years ago and got Tragedy and Hope, but I did not read it all. I do remember that around page 1155 or 1255 he described the plan to control the world by a group of elite white anglo saxon type such as Cecil Rhodes had desired. Quigley spent 2 years with permission of the CFR to study their workings and he did agree with their beliefs. The magazine that the CFR puts out is Foreign Affairs, in it back about april of 1974 Richard Gardner wrote "that the way to world government was by doing an END RUN around U.S. sovernty by Treaties and Trade agreements. Gardner, I believe was an advisor to Clinton on U.N. matters. Clinton thanked his old professor Quigley during his inaugeration speach. If you want acurate information on all this type of stuff look up the John Birch Society on the web. They are a information encyclopedia and have been warning and fighting against communism, and the such for a long time. They want out of the U.N. and want our elected officials to adhere to their oath to uphold the Constitution. That would be nice for a change.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:52 - ID#224149)
Regression programs- - - - xau = 250.00- - No - - - wonder the average Joe- - - - goes drinking Friday night- - - - - Away to catch Intellectuals- - - Lawyers ,Court Judges ,Congressmen ,and Senate wantonness.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:53 - ID#252127)

United Keno gets water license and Aurizon completes DD at Casa Beradi. ( ukh ) and ( arz )

Richard Burke
(Fri Jan 23 1998 21:57 - ID#411318)
Gold Mine InThe Sky
This morning in the shower I started to sing a song I had not thought of for years - there was a small voice in side of me urging me on.

There's a gold mine in the sky, so far away
We will find it you and I some sunny day
Then we'll sit up there and watch the world go by
When we find that long lost gold mine in the sky.
Far away, far away
We will find it you and I some sunny day,
Then we'll sit up there and watch the world go by
When we find that long lost gold mine in the sky.

My father taught me that some 60 years ago. Was someone sending me a message? Who knows?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:00 - ID#398105)
JAG..............a small point..........

The gold price was NOT the reason for the demise of Pegasus Gold Inc - bad management was.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:02 - ID#30116)
Tonights music list at 1600....
From, "The Falcon and The Snowman", movie sound track....

The most requested were...., "This Is Not America", "Extent of The Lie", "The Level of Deception", and finally ( ? ) "Capture".....

Richard Burke
(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:07 - ID#411318)
Japanese/US Markets
Tzadeak:I seem to recall George Cole saying something favourable about the Japanese market ( small cap especially ) performing well this year.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:12 - ID#238422)
Ziva, thank God it's Friday, and I'm in a good mood!

I realized ( with John Disney's help ) that I was too
hot in attacking you, and I am very, very sorry.

What made me crasy is the mentioning in one of your
post that v.....s were used to carry bacteriologic
weapons. It was so contrary to what I know about
the role of v.....s in human society ( latest events
including ) , that I got too excited and allowed myself
into this shameless discussion. I lost my face,
as my Chinese friend would say...

Ziva, at this time I am confused on who is Ziva and who
is the another Ziva on a sailboat, but I know that one of
Zivas is Susan and another Ziva is a grandma of Ziva.
I figured out that one Ziva ( said to travel all over the
world for 50 years in one of her post ) should be at least 50
years old, and if this Ziva has a Grandma, Grandma is
probably close to 90.

Anyway, I would like to talk to the younger Ziva.

How can I differenciate between two Zivas, should I
say "Ziva- Susan", just "Ziva" or "Ziva- non- Grandma".

Don't think I'm trying to joke, I just would like
to talk to a certain Ziva.

with this

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:13 - ID#177109)
Buckler Booboo

I really like your work, but I always seem to find an insufferable error in it. Your post tonight says:

"The signal will come ...when a firm bottom is seen to be in on long- term ( 30- year ) Treasury bond yields. These are at their lowest level ever, and offer no risk premium at all for holders of long term $US debt."

I am very much in agreement with the idea that gold and rates rise and fall together. It is part of my analysis of the very long waves. However, long bond rates, corporate and treasury, are well above their AVERAGE rates for this century, and therefore NOWHERE near their "ever" lows.

The absolute low for US long bond rates was at approximately 3% in 1946, while we are at 6% , a 100% difference in the imputed CBOT bond price.

The rates are twice as high now, at the beginning of supposed deflation, because in fact we are simply resting quietly in a very long term inflationary wave post 1932.

If your point was simply that the 30 year bond was not continuously offered, or your point was simply an "eye getter" I will accept it. But that is not the point actually made by your post.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:14 - ID#372344)
@ Richard Burke...
Where is this George Cole post you are referring to? I have not seen it.
In any event, I believe the Big Caps will lead ( excluding the Banks and
other Financials of course )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:15 - ID#26669)
I didn't say it would go to 250. I said it could, if gold went up. Look what gold did just when the stock market was rebuilding after the 87 crash. It peaked. It would be nice if at this point somebody bailed me out ( or just punctured my delusions ) by telling us what the XAU was then. Sorry for the shameless use of a link to somebody's commercial website, Bart. :- )

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:15 - ID#30116)
What's up with the /pub directory? I can't seem to get in tonight. Has anyone else tried to post graphics tonight?

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:16 - ID#372344)
@ Richard Burke.. BTW I think that song was a sign....

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:19 - ID#344239)
Thank you for your come back post on the book."Is it worth $40.00"

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:32 - ID#267276)
Saudi Arabia
Let me recommend a book titled ( THE AMERICAN HOUSE OF SAUD ) . I dug it up during the Gulf War for general info, it was very revealing as to the power and influence that Saudi Arabia has. This book is out of print, I called the publisher to get a copy and none was available. I think I will go to library tomorrow to review it as to any reference to Another's posts. It appears to be one of those books that someone wanted off the shelf.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:35 - ID#224149)
223- - - - - copy- - - - - But to answer your question I figured that if gold got close to its '88 peak there would be a buying frenzy for at most a few days. As a ball park estimate if it gets over $460 then there is hope for XAU 250. IMVVHO
223- How About Gold 1500 - - - xau- - - - - 250 better pipe dream.- - - - - - - I prefer 25 long term - - - - but this new rally will hold probably til the end of march- - - - - so you see we both agree for some time anyway.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:37 - ID#288295)

I was just curious about your rationale on the 250; seems like I read a similar scenario from Steve Kaplan's site.

I've held onto a couple of old gold- stock dogs that I would love to let someone else have ( for a good price ) , and attached myself one of these South African rocketships which will be headed for Mars if XAU 250 comes to pass....... Maybe just a bit premature to be dreaming that, however......IMVHO

Richard Burke
(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:37 - ID#411318)
George Cole/Japan.
Tzadeak: I took a quick look in my files to see if I had kept the Cole post about the Japanese market, I didn't find it, but I found the following which is appropriate to add here tonight given the day's action:

George Cole Post 11/04/97 07:30

"Gold bear not over yet, but looks in final climatic stage.

Fifty- fifty chance that bullion could make a final dive below $300 before it's all over. If that happened XAU might drop to 70 or even lower. But that would be the buying opportunity of the century. Just like the Dow at 800 back in 1982. When this secular gold bear turns decisively, the upside potential will be staggering."

I remember someone criticizing his use of the words "fifty- fifty chance" and "might drop" among other things from other posts. It was about that time that George moved out of the group. I believe George now posts from time to time under the handle Old Gold.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:37 - ID#267276)
The American House of Saud
I just checked and it said ( The American House of Saud, The secret petrodollar connection ) out of print but they would try to locate on in 2- 3 months ?

Bill Buckler
(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:43 - ID#257234)
A (semantic) booboo
Aurophile ( 22:13 ) I indeed could have prefaced my comments on 30- year bonds with the word "modern". If you go to the FRED ( Federal Reserve Economic Data ) site, you will see that the 30- year bond series begins in Feb. 1977.

The URL is

It's true that "long bonds" did go slightly below 3.0% in the 1930s, but those bonds have been discontinued. The modern long bond, the 30- year bond, a creature of the fiat currency ( post Nixon closing the Gold window ) age, hit their lowest yields ever two weeks ago, and that's a fact.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:44 - ID#316193)
Kaplan suggests to wait until Monday to celebrate....

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:45 - ID#30116)
223, Silverbaron, Poorboys
I use a rough rule of thumb for gold stock price and metal price movements. In general ( always a dangerous statement! ) a one percent move in the price of gold yields a three to four percent movement in gold mining stock prices. This seems to hold for the XAU index as well. Of course, if things got 'crazy', the rule would probably be useless.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:45 - ID#177109)
long rates
I tried to upload the US long bond rate chart several times, but the Kitco FTP server is timed out maximo. Another time perhaps.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:51 - ID#177109)
long rates
let's try it this way......

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:52 - ID#302251)

Bart Kitner (Kitco)
(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:52 - ID#25867)
for vronsky
To vronsky, respectfully requesting your assistance in creating one of the very few "commercial- free" postings groups on the net.

Your website is excellent and a must visit for everyone interested in gold. I'm sure a lot of people, myself included, would be interested in knowing when new articles appear on your site. If you keep us abreast of those URLs once as they occur I don't think anyone could argue that that's advertising.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:53 - ID#177109)
or this way

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:53 - ID#206358)
ZIVA......for you!
These days,we all are in deep sinking sand!nearly to my trout now!The breaths are weaker and weaker!Many businesses are SURE closing down soon!From the properties,consumers,.....every sectors hit!Many of my friends lost the jobs,cut the bonus,half operated factories...ect.The inflations rates higher and higer!!
The most problems SHOULD be from the political side now!!The conflict in INDONESIA,the thai cabinets,mal policy,philipines presidents seats...elnino effect to the crops,.......countless! ( ASKED STEVE,He got fast infos from austrlia )
there is one very good and realiable magazine over here, check it out,please!Especially the lastest issue:23/jan1998!!the great comments from the "ASIA ENERMY GEORGE SOROS"about the inflations and deflation in this financial turmoil.I'll post it when i get the news later!
ziva,..sorry for my poor grammar,hope not confused u,,,huh..huh!

NO NEW YEAR MOOD OVER SOUTH EAST ASIA.....TERRIBLE!Anyway,life still go on.....hope not liked the young boy "JACK"who hang to die in the ice water in "TITANIC"movie.....bye


(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:54 - ID#224149)
Digdeep- Strange how Great books are not in print - - - - The Seven Sisters : The Great Oil Companies and the World They Made
by Anthony Sampson

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:57 - ID#248180)
@ ANOTHER & Change
I am reminded by ANOTHER'S comments regarding "Change" of a profound statement by a spokesman ( sorry I cannot remember his name ) from the Middle East Oil Producers during the mid seventy's ( approx.1975 ) He said:
"My Grandfather rode a camel, my Father rode in a Mercedes, I have numerous Jet Aircraft, my Son will ride a Camel."
It provokes thoughts that the countries of the Middle East and China are not as nervous about change as the consuming and material minded nations of the West.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 22:59 - ID#26669)
Silverbaron: Steve is overoptomistic, maybe.
I believe his numbers were $500 and 270 respectively. But I like to read his posts. He makes me feel better when I look at my portfolio. BTW, I think I have may have some fleas from the same of the same SA dog stock as you. Last time I looked DROOY was 3& 1/16, which tops my 18 month target price with 16 months to go!!! I think it was Mr. Disney who got me to watching that one, but come to think of it, Steve sayse SA stocks are undervalued.

Disclaimer to all:
My lack of attention to detail is only one of the reasons you need to ignore my stock opinions. My investment decisions are my own, paid for with my own money.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:01 - ID#177109)
long bonds
Bill: Clearly a 20 year bond issued in 1928 is "long gone." This is precisely why the US cash bond market ( he largest market in the world ) prices in yield rather than by individual bond price, excepting the most recently issued bond. The yield may be the lowest since Nixon, but that was not too awfully long ago. Only slightly longer ago than when gold was last in a bull market.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:02 - ID#206358)
news from france:Worldview France has no more money

Friday, January 23, 1998

THE GLOBE AND MAIL - Canada's National Newspaper

By Peter Cook

BRUSSELS - - BACK in 1981, Lionel Jospin was former president Franois Mitterrand's choice to
run the Socialist Party and appear in television debates with then- Communist Party leader Georges
Marchais. Mr. Jospin, his patron said, was "the only one who, when the Communists start pounding
the table, doesn't hide underneath it."

As Prime Minister, Mr. Jospin is still a sympathetic performer on television, as he showed in an
appeal to the nation, and to groups of unemployed who have been defying the law for six weeks, on
Wednesday night. He was straightforward and made no attempt to hide under the table. He also
came out with the brave assertion, for a French politician of the Left, that the demands of the
unemployed had a limit if it meant the state paying them the same as the minimum working wage.
First, France could not afford it. Second, it would encourage a dependent society, not one based on
work and productive activity.

While he is prepared to expound these principles, Mr. Jospin cannot be happy about having to. The
unemployed and the unemployable, the immigrants who inhabit the soulless housing estates that ring
Paris and other cities, the unskilled middle- aged who have no hope of re- employment, all thought
they had found a friend in him as they have certainly found friends elsewhere. Their protests and
claims for money are supported by his allies in government, the Communists and Greens, and by 64
per cent of French people.

Instead he has started sounding like the hated conservative prime minister he replaced, Alain Jupp.
If France has no money to spare, it is for the technocratic reason that it is committed to a budget
deficit of no more than 3 per cent of gross domestic product to get itself into Europe's single
currency. Where is the heart in that?

In fact, the dilemma that Mr. Jospin finds himself in is no different from that in other countries that
have high unemployment and pockets of awful poverty. It is merely the French habit of taking their
grievances to the street, and a French government habit of then surrendering, that has brought things
to a head.

Whether it is French farmers hijacking Spanish wine and British lamb, or airline pilots on strike to
keep their rich salaries, or rail employees and truck drivers holding the nation to ransom, the French
accept it stoically and sympathetically. At times, the unemployed groups have appeared to have an
anarchist bent to them; they reject authority, occupy buildings, battle the police, want nothing to do
with trade unions, and have made demands that would add an impossible 60 billion French francs
( $14- billion ) to the budget. Still, they are to be appeased and pacified. Two- thirds of the nation
support them.

Mr. Jospin has made concessions, offering 500 million francs to the long- term unemployed and
half- price public transport in Paris to others. But he knows he has to be careful; earlier this week,
primary school teachers went on strike saying they needed more money too. And so most of his
pacification effort has gone into offering assurances that a pledge to create public- sector jobs for
350,000 young people, together with legislation to ban social "exclusion" and introduce a 35- hour
working week by the year 2000, will create a new climate and offer hope to France's 3.5 million

However, in talking up these solutions, Mr. Jospin is merely repeating his government's election
platform of last June. Again, a majority are for it. But polls also show that many people do not
believe it will make a difference and think there could be an explosion of social protest this year.

France's labour situation is different. An OECD survey shows that the long- term unemployed, those
out of work, are 40 per cent of total unemployment compared with 14 per cent in Canada; that only
59 per cent of the working age population are employed compared with 68 per cent in Canada; and
that part- time employment, the source of many jobs elsewhere, is restricted to less than one in eight
jobs. Among young people under the age of 27, one in three cannot find jobs, twice the number of
Germany and Britain. Moreover, all this is happening when the French economy is performing quite
well and should continue to do so. Having weighed Mr. Jospin's plans in the balance, most
economists think there will be almost no reduction in an unemployment rate of 12.5 per cent over
the next 18 months.

The basic question to be asked of a government sympathetic to the cause of the unemployed and
the poor is how much it thinks society owes them. In their protest, the unemployed have said that,
when jobs are impossible to find, they should be paid the minimum wage anyway. This has been
rejected by Mr. Jospin mainly on the grounds that they must be patient and not everything is
possible now - - scarcely words calculated to bring an end to their protest.

Meanwhile, the alternative of structural reform and of freeing up France's market for labour,
products and wages, is not to be tried or discussed. It is an Anglo- Saxon economic doctrine
preached in the United States and Britain ( which have less than one- half of France's rate of
unemployment ) and an aberration. Better to stick with Danegeld.


(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:03 - ID#302251)

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:08 - ID#206358)
Thanks for the 21.30 post!Since you are the frontman,u are always nearer to the trends.


(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:10 - ID#372344)
@ Richard Burke... 50/50 ....=....wishy-washy
WADR I tend to agree that saying something has a 50/50 chance
is really wishy/washy... you know having it both ways...
One coiuld hardly turn out to be wrong.... If it does happen well
one could claim credit, and if if doesn't happen one could still claim
credit... IMHO if one said a 55% or 65% etc... chance of something happening then I think one could take some credit at the same time
properly conveying one's view that the probabilities are or not slim
or great... But I can't see why one would have to leave a discussion
forum simply because of a little critisism constructive or not, over
one's firmly and well reasoned views. God knows I have had some
IMHO uinwarranted critisism from the unmentionable one in the
5th dimension, but that certainly has not prevented me from articulating
any of my firmly , well reasoned and factual views on a subject.
But to each his own I guess.... But I had not seen his posts....
If he is Old Gold as you say ,He did respond to one of my posts tonite
on my musings on predictions I made, that is the only recall I have of him.
But hey who among us mear mortals can say he/she is right 100% of the time? Such a person is either a fool or a liar...or living in the 5th dimension or all of the above.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:10 - ID#339263)
Astrology-weird stuff
A reminder to all you cynics out there that Mike Sheller's Astrological Investor, December 13, 1997, indicated serious difficulties for Clinton on Jan 22, ( as well as nation ) . Now that's a call! Come on now, send those Congrats when they're due.

Dave in CO
(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:11 - ID#215211)
Reference to funneling of soc. sec. money to stock mkt.?
I scanned through todays posts but couldn't find this covered: McCurry today in his press briefing hinted that Clinton would announce pension changes in his State of the Socialist Union speech. I assumed that meant soc. sec. Would that be enough to get the bubble growing again? What would that bode for PM's? Sorry if this has been discussed.

The talk- show calls and news interviews I've heard and seen from some of Clinton's defenders/voters make me fear ( even more than I already did ) for the future of this country. Everyone should have to prove that they have paid more in taxes than they have received from the government before they're allowed to open their mouths.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:13 - ID#22451)
All-Tragedy & Hope by Carroll Quigley-Interestinggggggg!!
Here are several URL's that elaborate the Conspiracy Theory further. Please read and judge for yourself.




4 ) "CRF AND NWO" ( )

5 ) "SOURCES" ( )

( )

7 ) "CFR QUOTES" ( )

These machinations impact all of our investment decisions, especially PM'S.

Any discussion or remarks would be appreciated!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:15 - ID#301318)
As the Clinton wheel turns...
I just caught this off the news this evening in passing so I did not hear exactly who said this. A statement was made, I suppose from a government official, that "military strikes against Irag is only weeks away".


(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:16 - ID#335379)
150 Year Aniversury, Gold Discvovered in Coloma, California, Jan/24/1849
A visit there shows the hasrsh conditions to those willing to risk to gain.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:20 - ID#344308)

ziva- - -

your agenda is yours, and ok......however....leave the
imaginary charachters ( grandma on the sailboat ) on the
sailboat....they detract from, and compromise your
position..... bell and the road you are hoe- ing.... they were
hoed here last kitco....the archives...swcr? house- wife......dipthrot....
dave in fargo......and many more.......

!;!;!;- - - nobody KNOWS AS MUCH AS YOU think they do!- - -

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:23 - ID#224149)
Bart - While cleaning house- - - - suggest url links by posters - - - - - no offence Jin- - - but try a link- - - - Away to try- - - - - and stay- - - - - - out - - - - of trouble.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:24 - ID#301318)

BANGKOK, Jan 23 ( AFP ) - Thailand's finance minister has called
on compatriots living in the United States to show their patriotism
by donating or lending their gold to the central bank, a report said
Tarrin Nimmanahaeminda, currently in Washington, urged Thais
living abroad to send their gold bars home to help the Bank of
Thailand increase its foreign reserves, the Bangkok Post reported.
"Before we ask the international community to help us, we must
show them that we take the pain and help each other first," he told
one hundred prominent Thais at an embassy function Wednesday night.
Thai ambassador to Washington Nitya Pibulsongram said details of
the campaign to raise cash through gold and special baht- denominated
bonds from the Government Savings Bank would be sent to Thai
communities in other US cities.
Tarrin added that the three- year bonds, which the government
first announced last month, would be a worthy investment.
" ( Thais ) can feel satisfied with their huge capital and foreign
exchange gain, because one American dollar would hopefully be worth
slightly over 30 baht," he said.
Tarrin also denied speculation that he had gone to the United
States in order to negotiate an easing of International Monetary
Fund ( IMF ) conditions on the 17.2- billion- dollar Thai economic
bailout package, the report said.
He also said he had not sought extra credit from Washington and
the central banks of other nations.
But Tarrin told Post reporters after his speech that Thailand
could not rule out borrowing more money from the IMF in the future,
the report said.
He said the main reason for his trip to Washington was to inform
the IMF and US officials about the dramatic changes in the Thai
economy since the rescue package was approved in August last year.
He added that the economic circumstances had changed, and if the
IMF were to review some aspects of its package, Thailand would be in
a better position to ensure economic growth, the report said.
Tarrin arrived in Washington late Sunday for a week- long visit
during which analysts expected him to seek fresh funds from the
United States and ask the IMF to ease the conditions attached to its

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:30 - ID#22650)
Thanks for reminding us Cavender!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:32 - ID#270295)
Can someone give me an insight as to why: ( 1 ) DROOY jumped 29% when most other stocks rose aprox. 10% ??? ( 2 ) If GOLD continues is rise is there any chance that PGU can come back from the dead??? ( 3 ) WHY is HARMONYS ( HGMCY ) P/E ratio so reasonable $5?????? sounds too good to be true ( John D. ) ( 4 ) Is Global Platinum ( GPGI ) worth a look??? Thanks in advance for your help.... I sincerely appreciate your expertise's.....And the verbal jousting and BULL- SHooting is to die for!!!!! keep it flowing....

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:34 - ID#221137)
Silver - significant fact
Australia's BHP has recently made a first shipment of lead, zinc and silver
concentrate from its newly- started Cannington mine in the Australian state
of Queensland.

The shipment of 11,000 tonnes of lead concentrate, and 9,000 tonnes of zinc
concentrate is headed for Korea Zinc Co Ltd's smelter in Onsan, South Korea.

Silver contained in the lead concentrate will be removed at the smelter.

Silver production at Cannington is scheduled to reach a maximum of 750
tonnes a year by mid- 1998, making it the world's largest silver mine,
accounting for about six percent of world demand.

My view is this new supply will place downward pressure on the silver price.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:36 - ID#224149)
Cherokee- - I have two cats and who knows better- - - - - both little Leo's - - - - that listen only to Pink Floyd.- - - - - Now that's a Gold Sign. - - m- - e- - - o- - g- - o- - l- - d.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:37 - ID#20748)
Tarrin Nimmanahaeminda should ask for donations in US Treasuries. Better than Gold, Wayne Angell called them.

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:37 - ID#257136)
@ 3cubed!! Yes! It was about 24.00 when I read it. Since there has been NO inflation lately, the
book just increased in value akll on its own! ( :+^ ) }[
The entire book is a warning for any of us who love freedom!!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:38 - ID#215379)

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:41 - ID#215379)
Well done, good job.

Don't forget to root for the Nuggets this weekend, no no thats wrong sport, its the Broncos

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:45 - ID#304282)
What is the daily limit up for gold?
I'm hoping to see it in the near future!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:47 - ID#257136)
@ Pete re: 23:13. Gotta go elsewhere with JBS, etc!
If you are interested in discussing this by email, mine is ajent@mena-!
Bart has asked us very politely to refrain from extraneous matters. If it is gold, silver or other precious metal related, he says"go ahead".
Without freedom there would be no need for a gold forum, and vice versa! Email ma and I'll give you info re: the federales and the other international criminals, etc!

(Fri Jan 23 1998 23:53 - ID#228128)
Dr. Bob: Two possibilities come to mind. First, DROOY may have gone to an extreme oversold condition due to last year's tax loss selling relative to its fundamental value. Perhaps John Disney can comment more on this. Second, perhaps the news due out soon on DROOYs last quarter performance is much improved and people in the know are jumping on it while its down.