Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

Crystal Ball
(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:00 - ID#287367)
Blow jobs
please note: I am Crystal Ball's girlfriend, *NOT* CB..

I cannot fathom, understand, or comprehend why all these women were willing to give Bill blow jobs. They got no satisfaction for themselves.
Why did they do it? It seems like such a waste of their time and even a humiliation, since he gave nothing in return. Oral sex should be part of a complete, loving relationship. Not a one- sided gratification. I am amazed he could charm so many women. Any one care to comment? - "PUNKY"

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:02 - ID#31868)
No other man leads me like trout to a lure to belive in the metals. There is trouble in the Eagles House.'Tis true.

On the other hand, journalists get paid to write stories.

You have heard more than most, the ping, like the radar watcher in Red October.

Oh no my friend, those who take no notice of the palm leaves rustling backwards deserve not to share in the rumrunners after the storrm.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:04 - ID#41229)
I'm trying to figure out how to respond in away that blowjobs include the movement of gold
{:+^ )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:06 - ID#288295)
Quixotic 1

I'm not very knowledgable on gold in the smaller denominations, except to say that there is a substantial premium over bullion for all these coins. As stated previously, high premium over bullion is perhaps at risk in a severe deflationary scenario, and probably a money- maker in severe inflationary times. In- between it's a guessing game.

In my experience, you can draw a chart of price- vs- MS grade for any coin type, and there will be a grade at which the price rises substantially - therefore premium over bullion is increasing; I buy below that point.

For generic certified coins, I believe these national dealers to be reputable sources of coins with low buy- sell spreads:

F.J.Vollmer ( 800 ) 447- 8368
Jefferson Coin ( 800 ) 877- 8847
National Gold Exchange ( 813 ) 969- 4111
Dillon Gage ( 800 ) 375- 4653

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:06 - ID#318140)
Liberty is one of those things which seems unimportant after 30 years of relative peace, and when a generation gets in control who cannot remember the sacrifices of others, the thought of fighting for freedom doesn't seem so important anymore.

Right after that they get their butt kicked by someone else who doesn't believe in liberty either.

The low price of gold reflects the reality of peace now, but it certainly doesn't guarantee the future.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:08 - ID#255151)

I remember those bb fisher posts here at Kitco and at the Gold- Eagle ( If anyone has not read them, it's worth your while to do so ) . The Vice President has been the biggest cheerleader for the internet. How ironic it is that the internet is the medium that exposed this Presidency.

Yellow Jacket__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:08 - ID#4289)
Awakened by the tinkling of gold
Ron: Interesting site. How about if they clone you, then freeze you, then bring you back when your clone is your same age? Scary.

Nick: Yo, ho, ho and a sackful of gold:

Farfel: I'll trade you my REO for your PGU. Thank God for DROOY.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:09 - ID#31868)
Lady, this is lower than cheap.
YOU do not deserve the following, in the least.

Men actually do not like blow jobs.

But for several minutes there is some peace and quiet.

Like I said, you DID not deserve the previous.

I will answer for this, and I shall own up to having said such.

'Tis my way to be less than polite.

On my GrandMother's eyes I will stand before those that judge such.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:12 - ID#41229)
Tolerant1@Paid reporters
The whole event that unfolds at as to this little escape of Bills reeks of setup. Not in the sense that Bill did not do the deed, but it now somehow matters to the press. We have been all through this before with Marla Maples it didn't matter then, why does it matter now? Makes you wonder if it is not a set up of something larger. Meaning its just a minor event in the large skeem of things.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:14 - ID#393224)
Bare (bear) market bottom???
One of the classic signs of a bear market bottom is "the final capitulation". I have been watching closely and I see nothing but white flags of surrender, white towels being thrown over the ropes, hands palm up in submissive pose and finally bare ( bear ) bottoms of submission.

Some concrete examples. I have lately been buying Perth mint Au proof sets containing 1x1 oz, 1x1/2 oz,1x1/4 oz and 1x1/10th oz, all contained in a beautiful jarrah ( Aussie hardwood ) case with certificate of authenticity. These were produced in limited numbers to provide numismatic scarcity value. What have I been paying, you ask??? Spot plus 3% !!! Now someone has gone crazy here and when I look in the mirror I do not see the guilty party. The fractional coins should be going for a huge markup. The numismatic value ( limited quantities ) , the fancy case etc., should command a far higher price.

Another example. Small producers, especially with mines in Indonesia, are going for a song. The white flag is raised high. I have been buying with both hands at less than fire- sale prices. Sovereign risk?? OK- - accepted. SE Asian nations need for REAL money is desperate. I do not think, however, that they will interfere with foreign mining companies. If they do- - it is all over as far as foreign investment is concerned. They are not that dumb. In the meantime labor costs in Indonesia must be awfully cheap right now. This can only help the bottom line. I have put my money where my mouth is and see some potential 10 or 20 baggers here. The possibility of, eg, $50 000 going to either zero or $500 000 is a fair wager in my books.

As to the bare ( bear ) bottoms?? I have just finished a 3 week holiday to the glorious Queensland coast. What they do not wear on the beaches in Oz would amaze you. I took it as a good sign. Mike Sheller- - where are you??

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:15 - ID#413195)
in sack-o-tomatoes
Yellow Jacket__A: That is scary! I don't know if I'd trust the SOB. We'd probably start circling each other like a couple of scorpions.

Yellow Jacket__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:15 - ID#4289)
Bill's BJ's
PUNKY: She got to keep the stain. :- )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:16 - ID#41229)
escape = escapade

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:33 - ID#227238)
Auric: Gore is no different than any other politico. He would be in favor of white slavery for his own grandmother if it got him elected to "high" office. Similarly the internet. He will champion the damn thing unless and until the day arrives that his! feet are held to the fire.

I don't think there is any doubt that governments everywhere will look for ways to limit the effectiveness of the web for international communication. Children will be the most often used reason for doing so. "We must protect our children". ...... Thank God, it will not be an issue in the US. Our children cannot read.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:34 - ID#344308)

for those who think it will be klinton's decision to
resign.......i submit that the democratic national party
will FORCE him to resign......

the pressure from within his own party and inner circle will
over- whelm his ego, and the nixon scene....peace sign flashed
whilst entering the chopper.... will be repeated...
klinton's legacy will hold the collapse of equities and the
end of a cur- dog political one event.

gold going to the moon soon......paper crashing sunday night- - over- seas- -
and monday in the has no place to go.....but is
being squeezed from all sides.......

!; ) .......adding- pressure- to- the- bubble- - - expecting- trouble- - - -

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:40 - ID#227238)
Gosh damn. I don't have a prudish bone in my body and I can be as raunchy as the next guy but the graphic depictions of Clintons sexual preferences, on this site, is becoming downright uncomfortable. There must be at least a hundred sites dedicated to those with a prurient interest in Maximum Jerk's peregrinations. If there is to be a vote taken - I vote to tone it down. It's done lost its edge.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:40 - ID#41229)
Thats good, about spit my beer all over the srceen!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:42 - ID#284255)
Truth and the net.
The radar is going crazy at the moment.
So many incoming signals.
So much clutter on the screen.
It's almost like they're putting up smoke signals.

I posted the other day that my swing chart was acting like a big move coming.
I just cound'nt see the direction cause of the clutter.
Now I think a direction has been ordained.
Down big time.

Imagine the consternation,
If Rubin was to leave.
The PPT will have lost their greatest asset.
All the gophers will not know how to act.
Resulting in chaos.

Also rumours that AG wishes for quieter times too?

Looks like insurance is going to go up considerably.
These markets are no longer run on fundamentals.
They are totally sentiment orientated.

And gold is the sentiment of dreams.
The potential could be enormous.
Especially if the crash is.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:43 - ID#41229)
I know your an advid traiter of derivitives, was it speculation on a currency that started the collaspe in asia, in your opinion?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:44 - ID#255151)

My take is that it's too late for Governments to exercise any effective control over the internet. It wouldn't be a bad thing at this time to hunker down a bit, eh?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:47 - ID#227238)
Refer: By coincidence, a friend just sent me an email of an article from a Palestinian newspaper arguing that it was setup. For the purpose of interfering in the peace process. So called. ..... I didn't read the article closely enough to get the details of who and why ..... mostly because I don't give a damn. ..... Me? I think it was Sheller and his astrology. The stars are powerful. Ya can't really fool around with them.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:48 - ID#41229)
It must be a dumb question!
Ive been trying for a couple of hours to get opinion on the start of the collaspe of the market in asia

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:54 - ID#252127)
(..-+-..) Hopefully we have a bullseye

Best that the equity and bonds lose steam slowly so as to allow sellers the time to decide that au and ag related investments are the place to be. Hopefully that the dollar loses steam a bit quicker than equities, so that the rise in the pm's will entice equity sellers into buying them.
IMO, best beware.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:56 - ID#227238)
Auric: It was far too late on the day that the first microprocessor made these clever devices possible. But that's not the same as saying that they - governments - won't continue to try. They have a captive audience and wish to keep it that way. Their best hope is to increase their involvement - interference - in the process of public education. It seems to me that there is a direct corelation between increased govt interference and declining educational standards in the US. The more people unable to think for themselves, the easier it is to maintain positions of power ...... and the easier it becomes ot subjugate those who can think. We do, after all, live in a land where the majority rules. Even if the majority is, increasingly, indistinguishable from the quadruped apes.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 00:59 - ID#41229)
Earl thanks for the acknowledgement, was start to feel like a lepper!
Are you familiar with the comodities market, I'm wanting to throw this theory I got whats going on with oil/gold relationship, in concurence with they currency devaluation. The only thing is I'm not clear on all the dirivative plays. Thats why I have been asking the question if it was due to speculation that burst the confidence bubble in Asia. I need a sound board.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:03 - ID#227238)
Sharefin: The loss of either RR or AG would be a death knell for the general equities market. It all rides on confidence. Coupled with the other distractions going on at the moment, there would be absolute chaos. The larger question is: will RR and AG consider doing that, knowing full well the consequences of their decision?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:07 - ID#252127)

Think that the 1994 Chinese competitive devaluation put a crimp in the Asian Tigers ability to send cheap products around the globe. The currency speculators, seeing the possibility of unpaid Tiger debts compounded the problem. IMHO

Forrest Gump
(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:13 - ID#340172)
Asian Perspective
I just thought you would like to know that the sucking sound you are hearing is not coming from the Whitehouse it is coming from Asia and it may be coming to a country near you. The CBs have sent the IMF over here to rescue various souls in an attempt to contain the damage before it spreads to the West. However, being bankers and not physicists they do not appear to know how to handle black holes. These Asian Tigers, or more like stars that have imploded on a sea of bad debt, albeit helped by easy money from Western, Korean and Japanese bankers who have done little to no risk assessment before lending them these large sums in the first place. The recent $100 billion in IMF funds have unfortunately just stoked the fire. Standing next in line are Singapore, Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong & China and then Japan and probably all in that order. If this domino effect continues and they get sucked in then the sucking noise will get louder both here and in the US. Fortunately for the US these same Asian countries, followed by the Europeans, have been financing the credit expansion in the US and have helped it become the greatest debtor nation.

Alas the stage has now been set, so all we need is trigger to cause a collapse of confidence in the US then stand back and watch the fireworks. It is the start of the Chinese New Year next week so fireworks are appropriate. Anyway, this is why I am in gold just now. Zippergate just helped me make some money last week on gold and I hope the same again next week.

So my learned readers, the question is, if Willie goes then what will gold do and will there be a great sucking noise on Wall Street, if so, the gold rise may be short lived and it will be time to head for the hills or go shrimp fishing. Should I fill the barrow with gold or shrimp.


(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:13 - ID#255151)

I agree that the Federal Government has ruined public education in the US. It is also ruining many other things in our lives.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:16 - ID#372344)
@ Earl.. RR,AG
I agree, there is no way they are resigning now, however IMHO Clinton
WILL be forced to resign. I don't believe that they will be able to prove
any counsel to perjure or obstruct justice, however what will do him
in is that he has already denied having "improper sex" with her which
most americans do not believe and as Congress starts proceedings,
and the economy and markets tank, although he is a hell of a fighter,
he will in the end resign for the "GOOD" of the country.. I hear Hillary is getting "upset". So as the NEW President Gore is sworn in, then RR & AG might be "replaced" as is common for a new administration, without
the dire markets consequences. A plausable scenario but as RR himself said "NO GUARANTEES"

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:19 - ID#41229)
Jack@unpaid debts
It was an speculaton of an asian currency that started the free fall. Do you know if the leverage countries ( debts ) debt/ gdp ratio out of the norm for a booming economy? Please don't ask me what the norm is because I couldn't tell ya, but someone here knows.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:23 - ID#153102)
WE THE PEOPLE of the United States of America
The federal Constitution was proposed to be ratified or not in conventions assembled by election in the states. The delegates to the conventions voted to approve or disapprove the GRANTS OF STATE SOVEREIGNTY proposed in the federal Constitution.

Forget federal "of the people, by the people, for the people" or brand yourself as a participant in the con. The con started with A. Lincoln, the first greenback President.

What difference is to you if the greenback is backed by gold ? What is it to you if the Federal Reserve is buying gold or not ? If it's not in circulation as coin for payment of debt, what good is it to you ? If all of the gold in the world were in Fort Knox, it would not give you back honest money or honest government. If they broadcast pictures on television of the gold hoard in Fort Knox ( "much, much more than previously reported" ) , will you feel better, more CONfident in your money and in greenback government ? If that's all it takes to keep you double minded, look for a scheduled broadcast over your national emergency channel. A double minded man is unsteady in all of his ways. A double minded man is easily disarmed. When film at eleven shows everybody else turning in their guns and there are tanks in town and greenbacks in his pocket, will the double minded man be ready to die ? Or, will he say, everybody's doing it, what is this word liberty anyway, I'm nobody's fool, and give it up ?

Now, will you still go on talking and being like one of those unfortunate, martyred, ignorant Haymarket anarchists who did not understand the Constitution and laws of the country in which they were living ? The States are the only lawful actor on the Constitutional stage except the critters in Congress. Congress critters are smooth, but when it comes to it, they have greenback power and they mean to keep it. We can go on being conned by Congress critters and saying Congress should do this or that or we can use the lawful source of power in the States to make Congress leave us alone.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:26 - ID#31868)
sharefin 00:42 God in Kentucky Bill Monroe
You are in good, GOD, oh sheet, step soft on the grass boy.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:29 - ID#41229)
Me thinks replacements during the meltdown of one of the largest world markets, ( Asia as a whole ) would increase lose of confidence in U.S., I'm sure if Al does take over he will be instructed not to mess with anything in the near future. We do seem the economy that is holding everything together. No drastic changes. Business as usual, not meaning this is usual but the pot already stirred don't kick it over.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:30 - ID#407135)
Refer having a question answered
As with many public conversations people at Kitco are usually more interested in displaying what they think they know as opposed to increasing their own or others understanding.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:33 - ID#41229)
Was wondering why you didn't respond to post 20hrs ago?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:39 - ID#227238)
Forest G: What's the downside? Ya have ta get rid of the shrimp in few days or they begin to smell funny. No matter what happens, the gold is still there. As long as you're speaking of the physical, of course.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:43 - ID#372344)
@ refer...
I agree that RR will not be "replaced" the same day, my scenario was
that if RR wants out, then a couple of months or so after Gore is sworn in
and maybe markets are "stable"? he could announce number of "replacements"as part of his new administration, including RR.
AG maybe "replaced" much later if he wants out. JMHO
The market is going to take a big hit over Clinton and I do not believe
RR & AG will want to pour gas on that raging fire, but rather wait
until "things" are least stable.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:44 - ID#227238)
Mozel: You're right of course. Gold reserves matter little if the money does not represent a call on those reserves. Without full convertibility by anyone anytime, gold backing is of no merit and nothing more than a continuation of the same con with a slightly different distraction. A change from 3 card monte to the shell game.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:44 - ID#41229)
Robh_A@ I hope your wrong.
If what you say is true, then this site is one that will refuse to seek wisdom and knowledge. Because if one dares to think of theirself as all knowing and wise, their growth has stopped. Life is nothing but seeking and learning, once the quest has stopped, I say living has stopped. What is pride but a brickwall in life, some crash and burn at this wall, and some breakthrough this wall. I say what is there to fear except fear its self, I heard that from somewhere?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:56 - ID#206358)
News ....hmmmmmmmm!
Interesting news,read on:
The markets is full of cheap gold bars,ornaments...Though the oversea market rebound strongly,The regions just sell,sell and sell...!Though the gold is the save haven in south east asia,still more suppliers than demand.Food,shelters,living are the first....!!
just from the scene.....don't know why.. just felt the economy pressure harder and harder.The storm just around the corner again.....!?
still hang on......on...

(Sun Jan 25 1998 01:59 - ID#227238)
Refer: I composed an answer to your question, as I understood it, but it was lost when I couldn't get it posted and had to do a reload.

In a nutshell; Asia borrowed a lot money to build productive capacity and some silly things, at a time when the world did not need more productive capacity. They could not produce enough to pay the debts and money was withdrawn from their economies very quickly when that fact became evident.

It's very much like borrowing a million dollars to build a super efficient mouse trap factory, only to learn that the world is flooded with mousetraps. Then what do you do? ..... Thank the nice Banker who loaned you the money and go bankrupt.

The story can be as complicated as one wishes but distilled to its essence, that's the way my simple mind sees it.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:01 - ID#153102)
If I can figure it out with a little help from my friends, anybody can.

If you're a praying man, a little divine providence wouldn't hurt just now. People underestimate the difficulty of taking power from a man who commands by law people with big guns and lots of them.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:01 - ID#407135)
And futher to what you say . The desperate efforts to appear knowledgeable take up so much time and energy that they virtually preclude your gaining mastery of the subject.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:03 - ID#393224)
Gold vs Paper
A hypothetical exercise.

Let's just say that you are a SE Asian. Pick a country. It doesn't really matter. Let's say you are an Indonesian. One year ago you bought a house. Through hard work and a small inheritance you had saved 100 000 000 rupiah ( about US$41666 ) . You bought your 100 000 000 rupiah dream house on ten per cent deposit and put the balance of your savings into gold bullion and buried it in your back yard. You then owed the bank 90 000 000 rupiah.

Yesterday you dug up your gold bullion, changed a small fraction of it into rupiah, paid off your house, and reburied the remainder of the gold in your back yard. You are now a wealthy man. Over the coming years an ounce or two will go a long way at the local markets. Your happy and prosperous retirement is assured.

Now for the sake of this exercise, let's say that the most indebted nation in the history of the planet suffers the same fate as Indonesia. The US$$ loses 90% plus of it's value in relation to REAL money. Wouldn't it be nice to pay off your mortgage with a tiny percentage of your backyard stash???

Farfetched??? Paper burns and always has. Only one money has lasted through government interference, war, civil unrest and major catastrophe. Dare I whisper it's name???

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:05 - ID#372344)
@ Clinton closer to Iraq Strike- is this "tail wags dog"?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:09 - ID#407135)
I think it was worse than what you say in that there has been substantial losses through corruption in many of the countries. In Sth Korea banks were virtually forced to lend money to already highly indebted companies as I understand it and in several if not all the other Asian countries monies were lent to cronies and relatives of the ruling elite

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:10 - ID#227238)
Mozel: It may be misplaced but I have the opinion that we are not sufficiently down the road to enable a violent ( in terms of non constitutional ) reaction in defense of the executive office. A Maximum Leader is not a possibility unless and until we reach the depths of some great financial collapse. Then candidates will oooze out of the woodwork.

In addition BC commands so little respect with all power centers, ie military, that he is not likely to be able to order much in the way of anything dangerous. ...... But who knows, an outside power may flip the balance in some fashion.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:13 - ID#227238)
Robh: There you go. I said you could make it as complicated as you wished. I was just offering my simple minded opinion. Of course you're correct ...... and yet there is more. If you wish to pursue it.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:15 - ID#407135)
Do we know if the SE Asians have been buying increasing amounts of gold during the last month or so ?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:15 - ID#153102)
You can be damn sure that if they did not deeply fear this man, Monica would not be in the news.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:16 - ID#24135)
Woke up dis mornin - an what was on mah dostep ??
What a PLEASANT Surprise

For Zaddek the misinformer

Just for the record - I NEVER recommended Drooy

at ANY price - but I have maintained that RSA stocks

are a better investment than NA stocks - I still think

so ( and in spades ) . I also like Aussie juniors.

There are NO US or Canadian stocks that I would buy.

Now to the issue.

Ersel ASKED me what stock I would recommend for

his grandmother _ I PUSHED nothing nor do I have an

interest in pushing stocks. I own NO VAAL REEFS -


1/3 of my investments are AUSSIE stocks - delta and

ramsgate and Carpenter plus a few remaining long puts

on the S& P. In rsa stocks I hold Harmony, Avgold,

Randfontein, E- dagga ( for the 29% div ) , and Northam


I quote what I said to ersel .

"I would suggest Vaal Reefs and cancel her subcription to

all newspaper and sell her TV set. Read books, go to movies,

garden, take walks, develope an interest in cricket. Enjoy

a better life.

Also leave the room at the mention of the dreaded name

Zaddeek the misspeller."

You QUOTED me as saying " Stop reading the newspapers, dont watch

TV just LISTEN TO ME" ( caps mine ) .

I did NOT say what you quoted, small misinforming person.

I only want people to listen to me, when I think

someone ELSE is misinforming them. I want people to

think for themselves, do their own calculations, and

question ALL sources of information. I simply said

NOT TO LISTEN TO YOU. Theres a difference, little one.

THE Fact that you MISQUOTED me to prove some point

means either that you are a liar, or that you cannot read

clearly. I like to think its the latter.

My point is that a great deal of misinformation

has been and is being spread about South Africa. For

whatever reasons, you among many others, continue to

do that. I dislike misinformation. Although I dont

know you, I suspect that I would dislike you too.

For Refer?? - was it you?

Actually - Zladekl started this a long time ago -

But whos counting - Point is now I figure this little

nonentity plans to write a NEWSLETTER and figures there's

some dough in it. He has a problem with me because his

mind is so miniscule that he cannot imagine anyone taking

the time I take on this stuff without making some money on

it in SOME WAY. He's got a point there - Sometimes I

wonder myself - Guess I just enjoy the company. with a few

exceptions. But thats to be expected in any good pub.

If it makes you feel better - I started it - and Im not

gonna stop.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:16 - ID#206379)
All currencies are like sinking ships
All currencies are like sinking ships, it's just that some are sinking faster then others.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:20 - ID#227238)
Nick@C: I've been contemplating that very possibility. A house mortgage is the only debt I have. Next month I hope to close the sale of a building I own outright. The next question is, pay off the house with some left over or keep it all as dry powder for the paper confligration. By this time next month the picture will be somewhat clearer. The timing could not be better. I hope the buyer has no credit problems.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:21 - ID#407135)
Bill Clinton
I understand his position in relation to Monica is just a natural follow on from his dope smoking when he didn't inhale. He had sex but he didn't insert.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:23 - ID#393224)
G'day Robh
See Jin's 1:56. Many Asians are using their REAL money to bail them out of paper problems and to buy the necessities of life. SOMEONE, however, is buying up BIG, as evidenced by Friday's trade. The US$$$ turning south is the major signal many of us gold bugs have been waiting for. See my USS Greenback analogy from late last night to see my view of the struggle ahead.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:25 - ID#24135)
RSA Fascinates
To Anyone intersted

I would not report on this except that shaslick and Haggis

have already done so- they BOTH failed to mentioned something.

Yes de judge is BLACK - nobody seems very bothered by that,

other than people in Canada and Australia.

Problem is dat de judge canNOT speak Afrikaans. And Botha

has the right to a trial is English, Afriksans, or maybe

any of another 9 official languages ( ???? ) here. Trial is

put off for 30 days. They have to think about this.

Haggis concerned that Botha doesnt look as good as he did

10 years ago. Im concerned that I dont look as good as I did

10 years ago -

Nor Haggis


(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:29 - ID#227238)
Mozel: I'm sorry but I didn't follow your reasoning on that one. Do really believe anyone fears that knuckle walking jerk?? I don't. I think he is universally considered a court jester. A pawn who is swiftly losing his usefulness to the moneyed interests and should be gone shortly. To be replaced by a more egregious boob ...... who will stumble and plod through the next 3 years, devoting all of his attention to the same silliness that marked his assistant captaincy. We can be thankful that boobus gore is not as politically astute as boobus billy. You see, we are actually gaining on them. : )

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:31 - ID#24135)
Love your posts
for Mozel
Have I got you mixed with someone else?
I think you made a few points on crude oil pricing in terms
of gold at a Beruit accord ??
I asked a few questions on the mechanism - did you miss
or choose not to respond.
If its the latter I have no problem.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:32 - ID#393224)
G'day Earl. I would be wary of leaving my money in US$$$ right now. The worm seems to be turning and the downside is unknown. I believe the US$$$ is in the same bubble as the Dow- - ie- - - vastly overvalued. There are other ways of storing value. You know my preference. BTW- - I enjoy your posts. One word is worth a thousand looks- - and I like your words.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:35 - ID#227238)
Top 'o the morning!
John Disney: Good to see you in fine fettle this morning. ...... Though I would feel a whole lot better saying that, if knew for sure what the hell a fettle was. ..... but you get the idea, I'm sure. .... I was going to defend you earlier on the misquote but I knew you would do a much better job of it. It's not good to steal another fella's thunder .... and it would be more interesting reading besides.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:42 - ID#227238)
Nick@C: Thanks and Top 'o the morning' to you as well, kind sir. Rest assured that I have no intention of leaving cash lying around - unattended, as it were. My only question is whether to use part of those funds to pay off the mortgage immediately or delay and allow the gold market to do it for me. ........ I am not risk averse. We both know the answer to the question. The real question is timing. ....... Let us whisper. In unison.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:51 - ID#407135)
HI Nick,I think and hope you are right about the impending demise of the US$ particularly in view of the fall in US bonds on friday.
I find it very difficult to separate what goes on at Comex particulary in relation to the mutual funds activites and what is happening to the real demand for the metal. It seems to me and perhaps I am quite wrong that it is the Comex futures market that is driving rather than reflecting the gold price or have I got it wrong? Are London fixes a better reflection of demand rather manipulation of the market or am asking for a simple answer to a much more complex situation than I am conceiving? Do the futures sometimes lead and sometimes follow the price?
Is the CB's selling of gold via the futures market? If this is thoroughly worked over ground I apologise but it is a source of interest as well as confusion for me.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:52 - ID#153102)
USS Greenback
Gold is political. The Congress critters can again make it illegal to hold gold. Congress has the power to coin money and to borrow. The domestic dollar is a measure of silver of certain fineness by law.
Congress cannot make it illegal to hold silver coin minted by law.

It was the greenback that was once gold "backed" domestically and gold convertible internationally.
Only the States, acting together, can rescind the greenback legal tender statute.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:56 - ID#24135)
Q & A with a little Z
for Z

You asked a "factual question ( ??? ) " - "did Drooy drop 80% vs

ABX 40% "

Answer - "YES"

YOU asked "where are yours ( recommendations ) for Drooy"

Answer - "Nowhere- I never recommended it"

You asked "and you just want a piece of the action dont

you "

Answer "I have a piece of the action"

You asked "Why are you recommending shares in the first

place ?"

Answer "I only recommend shares if asked. I report earnings

on RSA mining companies as they are reported here. That way

anyone interested gets a jump on the news before the

newsletter guys put it together. Im not devious enough even

to consider taking a position in anything GOOD before

releasing the info. If people dont want me to do this, Ill

stop - It actually takes a bit of time and Id rather watch

cricket or go to the races - you see little one Ive made

so much money on RSA stocks in the past that I havent had to

work for 16 years"

You asked "why do you care what facts I post"

Answer "I feel that your "facts" are not facts at all

but selected bits of information garnered from press articles

all slanted in the direction of Anti South African propaganda.

I have no idea why you are so biased and I dont care. I

feel obligated to try to correct your stream of misinformation.

I have singled out south africa - If I read you other posts

more closely, I would probably find the level of misinformation

is equally bad. ( maybe Im being unkind )

Then You asked "What are you so concerned that a thinking

person ...... different view of SA ........ other than yours

and state so"

Answer - " Im not so concerned and I dont consider you

what I would call a "thinking person".

I hope I have answered all your questions - Please call


(Sun Jan 25 1998 02:57 - ID#227238)
Bedtime. ~~~~poof~~~~~
Software says I have to have something here as well ......pooof .....

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:00 - ID#153102)
Earl & John D
Earl: Arkanicide is not a figment of fevered imagination.

John D: Missed the questions. I think the gold - oil relationship is real, but mostly tea leaves reading from here. No question about whose carriers are in the P.G. though.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:04 - ID#24135)
Good Morning Guys -
Hi Earl - Thanks for the support

To all

regarding Mike - not Only has he got STAR POWER - he has

rice and BEAN power. I think we're talking about some

serious power here.

To Oris - Why dont you try apologizing to shaslick on

my behalf like I did for you with Ziva - I DARE you.

That coach gun sounds great.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:07 - ID#393224)
The US gov't can always outlaw private holdings of gold. They have done it once and could do it again. Since when do Americans obey their gov't??? Why do Yanks always think in such insular terms??? Why does your gold have to be in the US??? Ever heard of OZ or S.A.??? The Perth Mint is quite happy to store it for you. It is easy these days to "own" things that cannot be touched by your gov't. I am not advocating that you break your laws. Nuremberg, however, should have taught us all a lesson. Do YOU trust your gov't to make the right economic decisions for YOU??? If the answer is negative, then take your destiny into your own hands.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:10 - ID#372344)
@ Dizzyland...No1 SA Propagandist..Finally! Admits it.....
Well, look what crawled out from the 5th dimension, are you sure you
are not sleepwalking in your technicolor dreams?
Your comment to ersel which you tried to make light of was for him not to listen to anything I have to say about your precious SA, and since
I am the only poster here who dare speak the truth about SA, by
implication you essentialy are saying just listen to me! and not the truth.
If you recomend SA Shares than you recomended DROOY at US$9
Gee what a terrific call now you're only down 65% .

If you weren't such an obvious and obnoxious SA stock promoter, I would not be having such a good time.

Oh ya, you started it alright, you always start with anyone wishing to tell the truth about SA, and further you have been the most anti- Norh
American mine shares, using unfounded disinformation why in almost
70% of your posts back you trashed ABX and other NA constantly,
and deliberately, cause you know that BIG MONEY will never go
into SA shares for whatever reason, and are trying your best to mislead, twist and spin facts,and I believe you should not be permited to do so, and I am and shall be asking Mr. Bart Kitner to enforce his netiquette rule 7 :" don't participate as an investor if your interest is really promoting stocks, identify yourself ( which you have just done ) and advertise in the classified ads".

BTW why don't you attend PW's next court date and show support for your cause, let's see how "safe" SA really is and how brave you really are.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:10 - ID#41229)
Sorry I did not return post sooner, I understand that the production outment the demand, so companys started to default on their loans. Was this do to currency devaulation, meaning raw materials went up there fore profit margin went into red?

John Disney

I have a real job, have no intentions on news letter if that what you where saying. Once something is paid to be written something has to be written. Other words it becomes biased.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:14 - ID#24135)
For Mozel - Im reposting
For Mozel The Beruit accord that you refer to _ is this hypothetical?? presumed ?? or REal?? can you expand a bit?

I have difficulty with your para one and two - maybe im misreading

Para 1 seems to says that the oil price is fixed in terms of oz of gold per bbl of oil - But para 2 implies that if demand

goes down - the supliers must get the same amount of gold

even IF offtake FALLS.

Wait a minute - I cant believe that is what you are


1. set the price of oil in terms of GOLD = 0.66 oz of gold

for a bbl of arab light ex Ras tanura ( for example ) . Thats

easy .

2. but providing a fixed amout of gold regardless of offtake

in almost impossible - That means the price of oil in gold

must go UP if offtake falls. The converse is the real

problem - unlimited offtake and the price of oil falls in gold

terms as offtake is increased. NO - never fly. Saudis wont go

for that - this is a replay of the 1970s when they clamped the

oil off - I was there.

I can believe ( 1 ) but big oil cos take oil to various

affiliates and are paid $$ for ultimate tranfer to Saudis

after their cut ( for supply and downstream ) - Then Saudis

take money to Banks and buy gold - is that mechanism ?

Sorry to appear stupid. Please expand. Im very interested.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:17 - ID#24135)
You are one sick puppy - see a doctor please.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:20 - ID#153102)
Public Law 91- 151, the Credit Control Act of 1969, gives the President the power to direct the Federal Reserve Board to control ALL credit allocation in the United States.

No offense, but I daresay the Perth Mint would cough up all its stored gold if the Aus PM said so. And I daresay there are international agreements we have not read.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:23 - ID#24135)
There seems to be some confusion.
for refer -

Sorry - I dont mean YOU are planning to start a newsletter.

I suspect ( lets call him "Z" ) fancies planning to start a

newsletter. Im probably wrong on this -

Not you refer - never you -

Sorry - tried to cover 2 birds with one missile - my misdeed.

Just trying to Clarify who started what and that I dont really


(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:23 - ID#372344)
@ Good Nite DIZZY -Crawl back to your 5th dimension I will E-Mail Bart tomorrow.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:25 - ID#244360)
Mr. Disney re: 2:16
You mentioned that there is a lot of misinformation about South Africa out there. Are you refering to the common allegation that it is politically unstable? Is it not in your opinion? I know very, very little about South Africa, but this is one thing I have heard.

You also said, I believe ( I don't want to misquote you, ahem ) that you wouldn't buy any NA mining companies. Is this because their overall acumen in mining and the gold markets is inferior?

If my questions are worthy of a response, I would sure appreciate one. Thank's.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:31 - ID#429245)
After confiscation
What happens after confication in the USA?

I am from Canada, but I'm sure US confiscation of gold will have serious effects here. In fact Canada could easily follow as has become the custom.

Supposing you have stashed some gold, and it becomes illegal to hold it. It seems your only option is to smuggle it out of the country, and sell it, and perhaps return with the money. I guess that would create an underground gold market in the USA. Any ideas? What happened the last time?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:36 - ID#153102)
John D
Somebody published on this forum a link to an article which cited specifics about the Beruit accord in terms of the ratio of oz of gold to bbl of oil. This was after the lawless Nixon reneged on the convertibility of the dollar to gold. I don't have a certified copy of any Beruit accord in my hands, but this article has the ring of reason to it.

What was going through my head was what objectives did the CB have for the campaign against gold with the metal loans and sales ? I concluded that if the Arabs are committed to the ratio on their side that forcing down the $ price of gold would force down the $ price of oil and achieve two inflation perception management goals at one stroke, since oil is in the CPI.

If this ratio is supposed to work both ways, the Arabs are taking their sweet time in getting the oil price down and getting a steal on gold for as long as they do so.

I think your understanding of the settlement for oil shipments is correct.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:45 - ID#24135)
Look Winston

1 NA stocks are VERY OVERPRICED in terms of their EARNINGS

per share. That is the ONLY reason I would not buy them.

IF they had low p/e ratios, cheap reserves and paid big

dividends I would buy them - they DONT for gods sake

Its nothing personal. You asked me why - I told you.

2. "politically unstable" is a catch phrase used

by low grade dorks who cant think beyond the press and

the TV set. The US is thinking about impeaching their

leader who thinks blow jobs arent sex in a country who's

covered the world with their debt and is about to lead

a major market collapse and a banking system thats in

real trouble and may invade Iraq to divert attention from

their internal political problems and you tell me that

you think RSA which produces more gold than the US and

is well protected from the world banking system and

has few enemies is PU.

Well really old bean - I suggest you do some thinking about

that little item -

3 - but please winston dont buy any RSA stocks for

yourself - I dont think you're ready for it.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:47 - ID#286234)
There was a long thread on the subject of confiscation here some weeks ago. Perhaps you can find those posts. Maybe you will spark another big discussion with your question now. I say why worry about it? Gubmints might try to take anything in an "emergency" not just gold.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:48 - ID#28585)
It's exactly as I told you...the Swiss will in no way, shape, or form sell off a single significant ounce of their gold. They are goldbugs until the day they die. If you doubt this, then I can refer you to various historical tomes specifically dealing with the Swiss.

Moreover, they always have been superior financial intermediaries....whether on behalf of Nazis, Latin American drug cartels, or Communists nations.

Based on the recent London Telegraph revelations, it seems categorically certain the Swiss are acting as intermediaries on behalf of the Germans to purchase gold reserves ( at much cheaper prices ) in advance of the EMU announcements concerning the exact nature of the EURO.

You can be certain the EURO will be a gold- backed currency ( I will hand you my penis if I am wrong ) ...the only variable is the amount ( 10% or 50% ) . There is simply no other conceivable way to create faith in a currency that has been disparaged all over the world...well before its actual incarnation.

Naturally, such a development is of concern to the American government...a gold- backed Euro supported by the aggregate strength of Europe would be a force to reckon with... certainly much more of a force than the Mark or the Swiss Franc.

Analogously, Asia is beginning to consider ( and may soon propose ) an AMU
or Asian Monetary Union. The net result would be a single Asian currency
( the ASIO maybe? ) ...again, it would be a gold- backed currency inspired by and based upon the European model. The major factors impelling Asia in such a direction is its desperate need to consolidate in order to shore up the faltering economies there. In much the same way that banks merge when one particularly weak bank needs a stronger bank to support it, then Asia is considering economic union now so that the weaknesses of certain economies can be corrected by the strengths of others.

This is not science is absolute fact. If you are an avid reader of economic think tank papers as I am ( since I hold an Economics degree ) , then you will realize the subject of new currency creation ( and the macro effects on other currencies ) has been widely debated over the past year.

BOTTOM LINE: Gold has been manipulated downward in the past few years
in order to allow re- accumulation at much lower prices in advance of the
new currency announcements.

NET EFFECT: Much stronger gold prices along with a significantly weaker American dollar. Naturally, a much weaker American dollar ( acting as the linchpin in the strength of American financial markets ) will result in simultaneous bond and equities collapse. The U.S.A. will be forced to hike interest rates to preclude foreign capital outflow, resulting in a classical stagflation, which in and of itself, will further weaken bond and equities markets...hence a vicious circle. Even as I type this post, notable American economists are desperately seeking a solution to the impending quandary... in much the same way that computer scientists are racking their brains to figure out a pandemic fix for the developing Y2K bug.

It is that simple.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:50 - ID#153102)
Somebody published on this forum a link to an article which cited specifics about the Beruit accord in terms of the ratio of oz of gold to bbl of oil. This was after the lawless Nixon reneged on the convertibility of the dollar to gold. I don't have a certified copy of any Beruit accord in my hands, but this article has the ring of reason to it.
Hate to break it to you, but I think last time around Canada led.
The American government bought gold for greenbacks at the rate of $20.67 per ounce in 1933. Yes, gold could become just like drugs and the Drug Enforcement Agency could open a new War front on gold.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:51 - ID#162309)
Bilderberg and Trilateral Commission -- Fascinating article
3 ) World Government, interview with an

Section 1 mirrors a Greek site:

Athanasios Strigas, interviewed here, studied Political and Economic Science
at the University of Heidelberg. He then took Foreign Relations and
International Strategy in the University of Georgetown in Washington D.C.
and Propaganda in Patris Lumumba of Moscow.

He started his career as an attach and nowadays is a specialised consultant to the supreme military
commander of NATO and has close connections with the Trilateral Commission. Most of his time is
spent in Brussels and in the last year and a half he has published 4 successful books.

Strigas has revelaed some shocking facts in Greece about domestic politics using secret
documents etc. as proof. He also predicted a military crisis between Greece and Turkey 18
months before it happened and named exactly the small island which was the focus of the
crisis. Unfortunately his books are only available in Greek but in them he reveals a great deal
about the US National Security Agency and the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderberg
Club, sometimes far more than anything you can find on the world- wide web.

This interview is translated, imperfectly, from the original Greek.

* We all know that countries are being guided by their political and military leaders. Big
countries and small do exist and also the small countries are dependant on the big ones.
Despite this in your books you mention two international decision making centres which, in
your opinion, are above countries and ideologies. Could you be more specific about that?

* It may sound exaggerated but people these days are being guided by political and military
leadership according to the orders of two global centres: The Trilateral Commission and The
Bilderberg Club. This marks a new era and it is not something that has happened in the past.

In the past, the world was ruled by ideologies. We know ideologies were used to control the people.
But conflicting ideologies were also creating wars. Therefore, for a while, countries formed alliances.

More recently there has been a change in the global scenery. Everything has been globalised. The
world has become a global village. Therefore it needs global decision making centres. From this point
of view the Planetarchy, if we can call it that, will be the politics of the 21st century. This marginalises
national governments which are now dependent on those international centres.

Today we see that profit now determines the destinies of countries. The world is already being ruled
by representatives of those two centres. The task of today's governments is to look after 93% of the
international wealth. That is the wealth that those two centres own.

* What exactly are the Bilderberg Club and the Trilateral Commission?

* The Bilderberg Club is an international decision making centre named after a hotel near the Dutch
town of Oosterbeek where its first convention took place in 1954. Its headquarters is in The Hague
in Holland. In its conventions two types of people take part we can call the 'protagonists' and the

The supernumerary are something like guest speakers, they are only allowed to speak a few minutes
and always on the first day of the convention. The Guidance Committee of the Club protagonists is
made up of Americans and Europeans from the developed countries, never has a person from the
Third World been on it.

The Club is made up of people with conservative 'aberrations' such as Giovanni Anieli, Luns,
Rothschild etc. The Bilderberg Club's president is today James Callahan, British ex- prime minister
and his assistant is the ex- General Secretary of NATO, Lord Carrington. Maybe you remember that
in 1993 the Club met in Greece, in the Asteras hotel in Bouliagmeni.

The Bilderberg Club today controls 33% of the world's wealth. Some members of the Bilderberg
Club, without having departed from it officially, established in June 1973 a new, more powerful
group, the Trilateral Commission led by David Rockefeller, president of the Chase Manhattan Bank.
Members of the Trilateral Commission operate in parallel with but somewhat above the Bilderberg
Club as a centre of research and analysis. The founding members of the Trilateral Commission are
Sirus Vance and Warren Christopher. David Rockefeller is president and Zbigniew Brzezinski is
chief executive. The Trilateral Commission manages 60% of international wealth.

* How do those centres get so much power?

* I think it is obvious that they take the power from the international wealth they control and from the
various political appointments, presidents and prime ministers ( which are mostly technocrats ) which
they control and guide.

* But how is possible to select candidates? Do top politicians accept being only token leaders
of their countries?

* This is a reasonable question but remember, human ambition has no limits. Skilful people exist that
do not care for means nor consequences in order to rise to the top of their country's leadership. The
selection for suitable protagonists to serve the two centres is made after checked information which
analysts of the NSA [U.S. National Security Agency] have collected, with the help of organisations
such as CIA, DIA and DEA.

The NSA personal reports are transferred in the end to the Steering Committee of the Bilderberg
Club. The Committee meets secretly and the conclusion is sealed in a special envelope which is then
given to the Bilderberg Club and Trilateral Commission presidents. The presidencies approve the
decision almost 99% of the time.

Qualifications for candidates are very fluid, [joke?] I mean elastic consciousness or, if you want,
plasticity, to comply with the international decision making philosophy. Another element of control is
that they must not disturb the global balance. This is essential because this balance has nothing to do
with the balance of the world but simply balance of the global profit and loss account. The members
must globally ensure the income of the two international centres funds.

* But didn't that happen also in the past?

* In the past if someone was a prime minister or a president he would have come into conflict with
the great powers, he would have been characterised as 'troublemaker' and underminer of liberty and
then would have been 'vanished' politically or biologically.

Today the politicians are servants whose masters do not allow them to make any independent moves.
You have seen in the recent German elections ( which happened at the same time as our [Greek]
council elections ) that the French were the ones that were celebrating the victory of Kohl because the
Mark is supporting the French Franc. The leaders no longer have any freedom. You likewise are
probably obliged to your friends to take them into consideration in your own moves and plans.

* Could you give us an example?

* Let's imagine that this, or the next, Greek government had the will to solve the Albanian and
Turkish problem and the dispute between Greece and the former Yugoslavia for Macedonia. What
would they do? Just 300 men are enough to invade the Aktio base in Preveza, Western Greece,
which belongs to the NSA and then every problem would be solved. If this base were occupied all
communications in the Balkans and Turkey would be paralysed. But such a move would need much

* What are the methods, groups and structures of the global decision making centres?

* The methods that are being used are simple; I promote you as a president, prime minister, military
leader; you satisfy your vanity and have ethical and economical profits. In return you have to blindly
obey us. If not we destroy you by corruption, forced resignation or assassination. At least this is what
happened up until now.

* What tendencies do you see in those centres today then?

* These days you can see a tendency for renewal. And therefore it was decided in the last Bilderberg
meeting to give the people 2% percent more of their international wealth, something that the old ones
did not accept. There are conflicts between conservatives and more liberal types. But I believe the
last will in the end dominate.

* Recently, humanity watched anxiously the collapse of the Soviet Union. Which dynamics led
to this collapse and what did it really mean?

* The collapse of the Soviet Union was begun in 1973 by the Trilateral Commission and part of the
Bilderberg Club. The members who left Bilderberg and formed the Trilateral Commission used shock
tactics and have brought the control of the remains of the Soviet Union to the Bilderberg. This was
made possible because in the Summer of 1973, 30 July specifically, The Trilateral Commission
controlled 60% of global wealth with their World Bank. So it became the dominator of the game.
The purpose of the Soviet Union's collapse is to demonstrate internationally the failure of the
Communist ideology and present it as a system that is inhuman.

Besides this, because the population of the earth is growing, the extra 2% that will be given to the
people will be granted to the Soviet Union out of the mining of their geological mineral wealth. The
soviet people must be educated as consuming citizens as in the west. In order to control those people
many new countries will be created that will not have constant peace.

* What is the role of the International Monetary Fund?

* The International Monetary Fund is a branch of the World Bank. Today, most countries are
obliged to borrow money because they cannot get it from private capital or from other countries. This
necessity occurs either because of a failure to manage public resources or because the 5 year plan
failed or because there is internal turmoil etc..

There exist of course also politicians that redeem the sympathy of the people by offering them
short- term material comforts and asking from them the minimum of their possible efforts. They do this
of course with money they take from the national budget that should be normally given to
development projects.

Anyway, the point is that sometimes countries reach a dead- end. When this happens the IMF
exploits the circumstances: it grants a pre- approval of the loan to those countries but with its own
conditions. This means that you will get the loans from the banks ( that are all controlled by the World
Bank ) if you take specified measures which are almost every time anti- social. This results in turmoil in
the society. The government panic. In order to calm down the turmoil even more money must be

In this way the government finally gets totally controlled by the IMF.

Let's take for example the Greek education system. 60% of the Education Ministry outlays are
coming from loans of the IMF. So it is not at all odd that from the 150.000 kids only 40.000 go to
the public universities.

All the above explain also why public works in our country always begin but never end.

* What are the global decision making centres most afraid of?

* One is the soft spot of the global leaders ( even if this sounds impossible ) and this lies in their
constant fear whether someday the people wake up and demand the wealth that is rightly theirs. The
same happened in the ex- Soviet Union. The NSA had information that some people were leading
millions of soviets to a revolution in order to get back more than 70 years stolen wealth. They were
informed about this movement in time and prevented it by dismembering the country.

* You mentioned before an enormous in power organisation, the NSA.

* Yes, that's right. The NSA ( National Security Agency ) was founded on 4th November 1952 by
president Truman and its headquarters is at Fort Mead USA. It has more than 2,000,000 agents and
scientists all over the world.

There is no committee in Congress, not even any laws that control their activities. In reality there is
not even an act to affirm its establishment. There exist only documents to protect it.

The security standard is very high and its electronic equipment is unique. It has the most perfect
computer centre in the world. Its computers are gathering and analysing daily all the information from
the hundreds of monitoring stations that are on the whole planet and in this way they oversee the
telecommunications of both the friendly and enemy countries. The Greek part of the NSA network is
the American base of Aktio.

It is equipped with scores of satellites which, for example, monitor the movements of the Serbs or of
Saddam and in seconds they inform the headquarters of the organisation.

If you ask someone which is the biggest secret service in the world, they might mention the CIA, DIA
or KGB. The NSA has deliberately cultivated the impression that the secret services of USA that do
everything are the CIA and the DIA. Many books and articles have been written about these secret
services. But of the NSA no- one has ever written anything. In reality the better known services are
executive organs of the NSA which, from its side, is the executive organ of the two global decision
making centres that we mentioned before; the Bilderberg Club and the Trilateral Commission.

Remember, the NSA manufactures politicians ( presidents and prime ministers ) always according to
the orders of the two global centres. It recruits geniuses from all over the world, it is said that it is the
inventor of the infections of the modern world and of many more things that it is impossible for the
simple human mind to hold.

* How can anyone manufacture politicians?

* You mean well built?!! There is a committee of politician manufacturing whose president is David
Rockefeller with vice president Richard Foren, who is a leading consultant to General Electric.
Members of this committee are Henry Kissinger, Alexander Hague, Toshio Nakamura, Edmold
Rothschild, Jovianni Anielli, Sirus Vans, Charles Duncan ( ex- president of Coca- Cola ) and Helmut

The politicians that are going to be presidents or prime ministers are approved or turned down by the
above council which meets once a month in the central building of the NSA.

When the candidate is approved or disapproved the brainwash from the Mass Media begins. Money
is given from the Central Banks to help establish a party, campaign etc.. At the same time the other
secret services take orders so that the NSA plan is carried out.

* What do you see in the near future? Will the status quo remain or will there be changes in
the world?

* I think that the changes will begin in the area of Saudi Arabia, changes that will have an effect on
the whole international scene. I predict the fragile balance of the oil cartels will be altered when 3- 4
oil wells of Aramco's cartel are bombed. This will mean an increase in the price of petroleum
products. The cartels for one or two years will have low profits.

If this happens Greece, with its oil, can play a leading role. Here we will have a repeat of the Onasis
phenomenon which was recently made public with all its twisted situations. This time Greece can play
a leading role in Europe because the economic strength of its oil will make it the 3rd power in the
European Union. I mean that England will loose its oil wells in the Black Sea, which belong to BP
and Shell, at the same time as the coup d'etat in Saudi Arabia. It is very possible that the geographic
borders of Greece with Turkey, former Yugoslavia and Albania will change and also the borders of
Germany and Poland ( the Oderneisser line ) .

England will loose Scotland because the Scottish autonomists will blow its oil wells. After the IRA
has made an agreement with England a part of it will go to support the Scottish autonomists.

Being under high pressure, and after having passed the economic convulsion which will lead to the
global shock we mentioned before, the world's economy will make an opening to China. China, of
course, will ask for something in return. An exchange could be India.

What does this mean? It means that China will be allowed to invade India under false pretences. The
Bilderberg Club will supply India, and the Trilateral Commission will renew the armour of China.

In this war, in order to reduce the world's population, the neutron bomb will be used. One time
general of NATO's army, Alexander Hague, was fighting off proposals for the neutron bomb, so on
29th June 1979 they tried to assassinate him.

If this happens Pakistan and Turkey will be dragged in, and Turkey will split up in two halves,
Eastern and Western part. If this happens Tansu Ciller will put Turkey in the European Union.

Taking this opportunity I should tell you that within the vast changes that will happen in the near future
is a step- up of the Ecumenical Patriarchy of Konstantinopolis. I mean that it will play a more
important role than today. Already Ciller has a draft law ready for the Turkish parliament if conditions
allow it. In this law the Patriarchy will become a separate state, something like the Vatican.

* Except for exploiting the global wealth where else do the two global decision centres target?
Isn't it a little bit unreasonable to say that a small group of humans does affect and control
almost all the countries on earth? How do they manage not to loose control of them?

* Let's make something clear. Everyone that is in either the Bilderberg Club or in the Trilateral
Commission is just a representative of the global cartels. Allied cartels choose some persons to
represent them in the above decision making centres. Their opinion for the international trend they
favour depends on the cartel they represent. Besides as cartel people the only thing that they
understand is profit rates. The protagonists in those decision making centres just bring gold to the

Exceptional members such as Rockefeller, Mitsubishi etc. are just bright exceptions or as it was
before in the Trilateral Commission Paul Austin the boss of Coca- Cola that was sleeping during all
talks and resolutions!

Therefore the Bilderberg Club and Trilateral Commission propose to the people of the cartels such
as Rockefeller, Hunt etc. the international politics that they will follow.

The second part of your question has this answer. In 1963 the Kennedys tried to reduce tension
between the USA and the USSR and to stop the war in Vietnam. But the cartels had budgeted that
they would collect billions of dollars with the continuation of the investments in armour and the war.
John Kennedy knew that they would kill him. He decided to get sacrificed because of his illness ( an
old injury in the back bone which caused horrible pains ) and believed that they would stop there.
They took off the scene also Robert Kennedy who would certainly win the next election and would
stop the war. Nixon dared to reduce the dispute this means that he did not continue the war till 1978
but did stop him at 1973. Therefore they involved him in the Watergate scandal and they sent him

So the control and the guidance is in their hands. The two global centres as well as the 'legal'
governments also have persons involved in matters that have nothing to do with politics. They are
bankers, ship- owners, industrialists and higher civil servants. They collect information and transmit it
to the centres. There the resolutions and the proposals follow. After the proposals the falldown and
as a last solution death.

* How can us humans react to this totalitarianism? What hope is there?

* The only thing that the two global centres are afraid is World Public Opinion. If the citizens of the
countries get informed and realise that they are not governed by their politicians they will maybe learn
to react.

This reaction can take many forms. For example, politicians may refuse to work for specific circles of
interests. Then the pressure is obvious. They do take it seriously in mind. Then they will play the
governments to and fro. Bring the army onto the streets. And when they make sure that there is no
solution the main government committee must be directly summoned to draw up new guide lines. It is
obvious that the old main government committee must resign immediately and a new one must be

* Are there opponent groups that want the people to wake up?

* There are secret groups which came out from the global decision making centres themselves. I am
paid by NATO to be against monopolies and against the big bosses themselves. This luxury allows
the fast conversion of other colleagues or people from the cartels so that they finally get persuaded
that instead of having $1 trillion a year profits, to have something lower. But this small difference can
help thousands of families.

A few such persons do exist and act against those two global centres. One of them is Oppenheimer
the son, that lives now in the eastern part of Moscow. His father lives in the western part. The son
Oppenheimer is against the power structure. He agrees to reduce ( very barely of course ) his profit
rates. His father doesn't.

Let us note here that his father convinced the Bilderberg Club and the Trilateral Commission to bring
down Gorbachev who sold Russian diamonds for 468 dollars a carat. Then he promoted Yeltsin,
who sells them for 69,7 dollars a carat. If the people of Russia do not rise up they will have to wait
for Oppenheimers death, for until then they will not prosper.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 03:59 - ID#393224)
OZ would probably jump if the US said "frog". My point, however, is that there are alternatives to having all of one's assets in one's own country. The world is now a very small place. It is nice not to have to depend on the 'wisdom' of your political masters for your economic future. Banks, retirement funds, government denominated assets should all be treated with a big grain of salt. How many people are going to be asking for their retirement funds at the same time that the government changes the rules due to "a state of economic emergency"? Prepare assets that cannot be touched by gov't decree and treat any gov't controlled assets as a 'bonus' when the time comes.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:00 - ID#41229)
John Disney @ World power shift
Want you to read this and give me some feed back as I know you will. Subject is basically Another and his agenda.

The reason I've been asking about the future markets, I think it "The devil is in the details" as a height impaired one would say.

It has been well documented here and elsewhere, that if you have the currency inwhich international items are traded and compared to, this is an ernormous power.

U.S. $ is the currency inwhich things are pegged. If you were an individual or group seeking to dethrown a paper currency that is backed soley by faith, what steps would be taken? Surely loss in confidence would be the angle.

If you know that gold is linked to oil, paper gold was accepted in means of delivery until physical could be shipped.

If the country who is the largest consumer of oil, also so happens the to be the currency pegged to oil.

Who is the largest creditor of Asia? Is it not Japan. If so, what is the bulk of reserves that japan hold? U.S. debt

Do you know where I'm going with this, it sounds something out of a OO7 flick to me, but after ANOTHERS story?

It would seem that U.S. is being attacked at two fronts, the gold and the
bond fronts.

With the futures market it wouldn't necessarially take a large amount of money to start a trend. Once a trend is started it becomes self driving.

Let's take gold, all you do is start shorting it, CB's willing to lend gold to make profit, and really for the most part physical is not actually being bought during massive shorting of paper gold. Well the U.S. really doesn't mind because lower gold prices means less of costs for oil deals. The only thing is the party that started the trend will come in everytime trend goes for a brakeout to reverse trend, enventually we come to the production costs of some ming companies, which start at $350, when the creditors see that the price for the product coming to the point where company can not make good on debt; bank will force company to sell forward production, or hedge to lockin a price level where it can still make good on its debt. So what we have is a market where the fundamentles are thrown out the window, for a sort time! Once the demand for the physical, and no way to meet supply, prices will skyrocket.

The reason being all these mining companies that hedge, forced by creditors, can unravel their forward positions when becomes economical.
Only problem is on the way up physical is being taken, increasing shortage.

This senerio provides many advantages for people who started shorting.

1.They make money while shorting market, because they are able to get out on support levels, then increase the short positions with money made.

2. Able to control many OZ of gold with very little money inrelation.

3. Able to buy physical on a continuing less expensive basis.

Is this making sense?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:01 - ID#429245)
Sam: Why worry about confiscation of gold compared to confiscation of other assets?

Yes, I read some of those posts when the subject was active recently, but I didn't see anything about how people handled the practical matter of using it once it became illegal.

You seem to discourage raising the subject again. Don't you think it is appropriate in this forum?

Many here are advising holding physical gold, in part because of the threat of confication. In that case, the use of gold after confication must be thought out. I am interested in those views.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:02 - ID#153102)
Yet another CB motive to force down the price.

I wonder how the others in Europe will take it if they find out the Germans are secretly maneuvering to control the new money supply center for all of Europe.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:03 - ID#429245)
Mozel: Your posts are interesting, but I couldn't understand your answer to me.

I have never heard of gold being illegal in Canada. Do you have any reference?

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:09 - ID#24135)
One World may be closer than you think
For Nick -

Your point is good in that Americans can move money around

as they like ( within limits ) - however they may then fall in

the tax clutches of other countries ( even like Australia

which HAS capital gains tax ) .

The idea of one world Government is aimed at stopping that

freedom. I NEVER believed that the EU would come to pass but

now it looks like it will - because politicos WANT it - they

control the press and the media and people will think what

they WANT them to think. It's amazing really - 1984 was just

a little later than people imagined. The justification for

world government will be to stop war ( which politicians start ) -

and will wind surrendering individual freedom - Frankly Ill

take war any day.

The internet represents world wide freedom of assembly.

Politicians will come to hate it. Justification to control

it will be "spread of terrorism" - "child pornography" -

maybe new reasons will come.

My point is that all this is more serious than it may seem

when you're perving on some bird at the beach.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:18 - ID#244360)
@Mr. Disney
Thank you for the insights. It seems you took my questions rather offensively, I did not mean to be offensive in my wording, or to challenge you, I simpley wanted to know.
I never said that RSA was PU, I said only that I had heard it was.
I may not be ready for RSA stocks, I only bought my first stock ever in late December, though I have been buying PM's intermitantly for about half my life.
In your opinion, is it realistic to think that enough money will ever flow into RSA stocks make them as overvalued as NA's are? How about to fair valuations? Where would this be for say, DROOY? In other words, are they permanently predisposed to undervaluation as a function of being South African, or is this simpley current market sentiment?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:20 - ID#33164)
Hello to Ewe- Aurator dear, isn't that a bit much from your end of the world??
Morning All!!
Quick scrolls, and what do I see after a few weeks away from Kitco? - Cricket; Cookery; "skinner" about Clinton's sex life; Liberty- [ I'll drink to that one TOl1!!] & GOLD UP- isn't that great??

I think you are ALL wonderful and love you lots, but wish you would NOT fight!!
Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:17 THANKS@6pak
" Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision"

Heartily second Cherokee's thoughts on the quality of the posts here "the quality of the posts here is incredible! the view is second to none"

John Disney IS a very valuable source of info regarding RSA - especially the GOLD mines, and of course politics and social behaviour will affect the economy of our country IMHO Thanks John !

Mike Sheller- Did you know that PW's hearing has been post- poned till the day of the eclipse on 26th Feb??!!

Sharefin@???The radar is going crazy at the moment.
So many incoming signals. ??
What else is happening??

And@Truth& theNet- and for John :-
"My father was constantly learning and listening and was a lifelong
student. I ultimately aspired to be like him. He always told me that we
should keep in the company of those looking for the truth and run away
from those who had found it. That made a strong impression on me."
- - - Deepak Chopra

Good call on the 22nd January issue from Chad Meek and yourself, Mike Sheller!! Tops....
JTF/Sharefin/kk/Mike- Didn't Fred Crook's also call the 22/23rd January??

Take care- off to the Lippy's [ Hi SDRer!! ( :- ) ) ) - not mucking out today!!- Rand Hunt Club riding through, & will try and catch them for a drink at the dam. A toast to you!]

JTF@ "Here's to the future, and survival of the Human spirit" Right on! Best regards..

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:20 - ID#28585)
As a foreigner, I thought you might be interested in one other revelation ( certain to have a great dampening effect on American financial markets ) :

As you know, Entertainment has become one of America's major exports to the world...whether in the form of movies, theme parks, or casino resorts. Moreover, various regions in America depend upon foreign tourists to keep their economies thriving and vital.

Apparently, the busloads of Asian tourists swarming over famous American destination resorts have simply disappeared. Unfortunately, they simply don't have the extra U.S. bucks. It is now possible to visit hot tourist spots in our country today and avoid the long lines of the past.

So, maybe you should take advantage of this development and visit America...once you arrive, naturally I still will be happy to drink you under the table.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:34 - ID#33869)
Could you kindly email your post on 22/1/98, "Typical American- you know you are a liberal if- " Thank You.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:36 - ID#153102)
Look in the back posts. The Canadian posters had all the facts at their finger tips.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:38 - ID#432148)
To all our OZ friends
Happy Australia Day tomorrow! ( And you thot we Yanks were not on top of your national holidays, tsk tsk. ) ;- )

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:41 - ID#24135)
Im working my a!! off here

For Winston

Im really sorry - Got up this morning looking for trouble.

To answer your question - look at charts - Drooy

for example has been so high in the recent past that it was


I only had Drooy myself once and that was by accident. I

was in blyvoor and buffels and got caught up in the DDeep

takeover - I had too much stock to get out easy. I still

hold some DD options ( a lot really - good till 2003 I think

at a crazy strike price )

It's possible for these stocks just like any stocks

to be overvalued. Gold stocks are not always the answer.

Its just that they are cheap now - I doubt if the US golds

will retain their stupid price advantage over RSA AND aussie


- people sre getting smarter and wont buy the phoney LOW COST

figures that do not reflect in the profit/loss statements.

Also the bre- x disaster and munks sale of abx by his

real estate company are BAD for their fading credibility.

- but one must NEVER underestimate the US ability to

misinform. They ARE Experts.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:47 - ID#393224)
G'bug 23
Thanks mate. Only trouble is, we were looking for a nice UP day for gold shares. The $9 rise happened after we closed. I guess all good things come to he that waits. You guys do the right thing on Monday.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:47 - ID#41229)
Got togo

(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:51 - ID#266105)
Well really old bean - I suggest you do some thinking about

that little item -



(Sun Jan 25 1998 04:52 - ID#153102)
I see I slipped into calling the greenback a dollar myself in a post. Time for rest.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 05:07 - ID#432148)
Barron's gold hit
Yet again DJ hits gold in their Jan 26 issue, page MW9. Too many economists on their staff who have done the overthink. Gold is not a threat to their world order of things. Used properly it could add a lot of stability in the world. Control the politicians for openers.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 05:15 - ID#266105)

Mr. ( Mozel ) Thank you. I think we can agree that
schooling and training is less and that education
is a two- way process. Now don't bug me, I wish to
catch up on a whole lot on this busy, busy channel
and the live blues down/up/little town was ok at
times tonite. Once again, thank you for what you
for what you have taught me.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 05:29 - ID#286234)
Did not know that you read the recent discussion on confiscation here. I forget that many of you probably have rather large caches to worry about. I sincerely hope your inquiry will elicit interesting new responses. I will be just as interested as you!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 05:35 - ID#432148)
Your comment re Drug Agency opening a war on gold - interesting - there is already a war on gold. And in the end it will be as effective as the Drug War. What a farce and waste of our money that is.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 05:35 - ID#24135)
Need a break
for Colleen

You are one sweetie pie

for refer

Have printed out your post - must reflect - will reply

for mozel

Your point on silver/gold brilliant - never thought of this.

Gold is political - look at the Governments in Korea and

Thailand rake it in - ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

bags of silver $ in the cellar is the way to go -

with Oris 's coach guns in the hallway. State's rights

hurray - If they reform the army of northern virginia

ill come back to the South. This time we'll take Washington-

only who wants it ?? .... "the bonny blue flag that bears a

single star " - - a rebel yell is in order at this stage.

On the bilderberg/tris/etc

If Strigas is all we have to worry about then we are safe.

this guys mixes the Black sea and the North sea - and

does Openheimer really live in Moscow??!!. - try London or

Joberg. Comment Please coleen. Strigas - REally ???

But I believe this rest - except for Warren Cristopher who

I always considered a Disney creation - ever see Pinocchio ??

Am I wrong ?? Is it my imagination??

(Sun Jan 25 1998 05:43 - ID#248180)
@farfel 3:38
Farfel liked and agreed with your post at 3:48. The doubt started to set in after you qualified your statements and advised us that you are an economist. Reminds me of a joke:
As Jones entered the board room and greeted the MD and was introduced to the other directors, Jones looked to the other end of the room and asked about a man that he had not yet met. The MD said oh yes thats Smith, he is my economist. Jones said wow, he must cost you a lot of money? Only when I take his advice replied the MD.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 05:55 - ID#432148)
GW - Your 03:31 - Confiscation
Last time the US confiscated many did not turn in their gold. Where did all those Double Eagles still around come from otherwise. The man on the street of course turned his in. The rich and wise did not. Would the US govt sell us gold coins now and then ask for them back? Ha, you and I both know the answer to that one. Would we give them back? I think we know the answer to that one too.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 06:20 - ID#210114)
Thank you to Goldbug 23 on his Australia Day wishes. Time to celebrate the day some 210 years ago when this vast continent became an English prison.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 06:23 - ID#364147)
@ Ocean Storm........................and 'Stupor Bowl Sunday'
It's blowin like a 'sombitch'~~~~~~~~~This better be over in TWELVE hours cause I lose my satellite feed in 'bad' weather and if I miss the 'Stupor Bowl',I could ( WILL ) go BALLISTIC.....hang in there team gold!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 06:24 - ID#266105)
@painting the tape
Am I wrong ?? Is it my imagination??


I've things to say to Tolerant1 that are unspeakable.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 06:40 - ID#24135)
How screwed up can one man get
for Refer -

Im REALLY sorry - I got you mixed with CA- per

For caper -

What I wrote for REfer was really for you - I forgot what

it was now - read it or dont who cares.

Horse races on now - bye

(Sun Jan 25 1998 07:08 - ID#364147)
CAPER...........................and why didn't YOU come over here and drink with--------
MOIS!!...P.S. How'd ya get online last night ( all ( I ) got was damn busy signals ) ...but then again maybe ( ? ) I was soo drunk I wasn't hittin the right ( 'stuff' like that ) ...Despite meself,I liked yer 22:32 and am beginning ta like you man...Don't know how long you've been lurking @ kitco but my 'rap'about CB has hardly been all negative ( the negativity creeped in @ the 'end' when circumstances beyond my control ( like everthing! ) - - took over...Am sittin here ( I think ( duh ) drinkin out of me Tim Horton's mug ( coffee this time,and NO there is NO RUM in it! ) lookin out @ a very stormy but beautiful ocean and I will miss much of what I experienced in BEAUTIFUL CAPE BRETON!!! Have probably hiked close to the entire coastline of CB ( no,not @ once!! ) and probably put on 10,000 miles on me trusty kayak with at least 100 kayak trips to my beloved SCATERIE ISLAND ( a fascinating place with a fascinating history!! ) ....This kind of 'rap' was more my normal 'rap' in my earlier days @ probably won't want to ( don't blame ya one bit ) but just e- mail address is- - -

(Sun Jan 25 1998 07:15 - ID#266105)


John, in real time. As one who Does like verse who/was it
wrote that about rains & stains Roses.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 07:16 - ID#364147)
To BART(not I scroll back in time I see--------------
a threat of banishment ta the hinderlands ( don't do it good buddy,I'll clean up my act ( honest! ) ...Those days ( sigh ) on the oil- rig and in the construction business did nothin for my vocabulary and I WILL wash my mouth out with soap and never say another curse word ( can I say damn? ) ...Considering the time I've spent on Kitco I find the 'sudden threat' a little strange ( is there more involved here? ) my PARANOIA is kickin - - I luv you man and your site is SUPER!!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 07:25 - ID#364147)
Well-well-well.....looky who's back............and just in
GOLDen head....GC: Since I have a restraining collar tightly bound around my neck,I can only say so much to YOU...and yer packers...We'll see who the 'loser' is idol Favre is a pill- poppin- - beer guzzlin RED- NECK who will be eatin turf fer dinner t'nite...He could only dream of having the 'class' that ELWAY has!!..."Date with destiny"- - ( don't make me laugh ( cause I might upchuck )
The final score will be Broncos 23 and packers 20 ( sorry )

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 07:39 - ID#24135)
Another brick in the wall of little z's education
For Little z

I forgot to mention -

You also said "You jsut ( ?? ) can't stand the fact

that nearly $80million bought ABX yesterday and maybe

US$5million bought DROOY"

Answer Yes, I can stand that. for your information,

there are only 39 million shares of DROOY outstanding

against 373 million shares of ABX.

That's the reason that one share of DROOY represents

2.8 oz of gold reserves while one share of abx represents

only 0.25 oz of reserves. Also I assume you refer to

DROOY volume in the US. It also trades here - abx does

not - and in London - maybe Zurich too Im not sure.

I cannot imagine what would have happened to the

price of DROOY had $80 mill US gone after the stock.

It would have trebled in a day. Just not much script

old chum. Plus Rangold owns a bit which is not on

the market.

Yes the big dough is picking up DROOY- Guys who prefer

paper to gold are buying ABX.

I am not recommending DROOY - I want to see their

quarterly results - but Im getting interested.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 07:42 - ID#284255)
11th largest economic powerhouse.
S.Korea Goliaths not immune in cycle of failure
SEOUL, Jan 25 ( Reuters ) - More than a hundred businesses are failing a day in South Korea and analysts say almost no enterprise was immune to the trend, least of all the corporate Goliaths blamed for leading the economy into crisis.

The Korea Institute of Finance, a state- funded think- tank, predicts business failures will triple to around 53,000 in 1998, due to sky- high interest rates and near- zero economic growth resulting from International Monetary Fund strictures.

``These days, we have a chaotic situation. Almost all the big groups are vulnerable,'' he said.

``They are in great danger. They have to find a way to survive in a new form, because they can't survive the way they are now.''

Interest rates are running at up to 30 percent.

Y.C. Yoon, banking analyst at SBC Warburg in Seoul, said at least two more of the top ten were technically insolvent and likely to fail in the first or second quarter.

``The BIS requirement is intended to strengthen banks,'' said Choi. ``The side effect is that it leads to a huge amount of bankruptcies and worsens the overall situation. This is a very vicious cycle and could lead to the total collapse of the economy, which isn't what the IMF wants to see.''

(Sun Jan 25 1998 07:45 - ID#284255)
Some sleep better at night.
FOCUS- Sleepless in Indonesia over debt quagmire

The mountain of foreign debt stuck on company books - - estimated at $66 billion - - threatens to drive Indonesia's economy into the ground and toss countless people out of work across the archipelago, raising the spectre of social unrest.

On Sunday, Japanese Vice Finance Minister for International Affairs Eisuke Sakakibara said Tokyo and the International Monetary Fund would adopt unspecified measures to tackle Indonesia's financial crisis this week.

``This week, in cooperation with the IMF, we will be taking some sort of measures ( on the Indonesian crisis ) ,'' Sakakibara said on a television programme.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 07:47 - ID#24135)
Just in time - I had given up hope
for 2bro2b.

It was W.H.Auden. He also wrote the libretto for

Igor Stravinsky's opera "the Rake's Progress" inspired by the

paintings ( or engravings ) of Hogarth.

They are a few of the most ominous lines in the English

language and perhaps a sign of the times.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 07:52 - ID#284255)
Latest gossip - Gold up Tuesday?
What did Monica send to Clinton?
Lewinsky has grand- jury date

(Sun Jan 25 1998 07:53 - ID#334174)
@ had wine & I feel great
Ted- was not my intention to attack you as it is not my character- Actually- a lot to what you have said in the past BUT as the accused person/s in a court of law says- GUILTY- with an explanation Your Honour.
Negativity prevails here. It is the Scottish mentality & I can relate to
it ( God knows- we hear enuff of it on Talk Back ( Back Talk ) - Radio Show.
Not many on this forum can relate to this & I think u know what I mean
as I am only referring to this Island- give an Italian a wheelbarrow &
he becomes a contractor overnight. But the Cape Breton Scotsman just
keeps shovelling the same ole' sh!t as directed day after day. "Company
Town" This is our past & we have not learned to throw out & loosen the shackles. We are prisoners & love it. We are told what to do. Make sense
to ya. Lovely day eh???? FreeWilly the Spermwhale.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 07:54 - ID#266105)
No comment. 'Nite.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 08:15 - ID#364147)
My fellow CAPER........................................
Yup,makes mucho sense ta me!!....Would be nice ta see the 'vicious cycle' de- railed and there are some faint signs of encouragement 'out there' gold investment did you make that yer down on? My mistake ( so far!! ) was ABX but I will hold on till I make a profit ( if I live that ) ....Guess,yer havin the same pleasant weather that us 'Round Islanders' are havin and I think I'll postpone the daily walk fer a bit....Have a GOOD day and if ya ever want ta 'tip' one ( or TEN ) give me a jingle........

(Sun Jan 25 1998 08:18 - ID#364147)
Why me GOD?????......of all the days!!....................
The weather is so bad I have lost my satellite feed ( God,this is 'SUPER SUNDAY ) .....Please....I promise to behave myself....pleeeease...I beg you!...on bended knee....

(Sun Jan 25 1998 08:20 - ID#409349)
While you have been expecting a big move in the market for awhile, what has convinced you that it will now be down?

Can I read your post as expecting the gold shares to be caught in that down draft, but the metal to not be negatively impacted. In fact, I sense you are quite optimistic on the metal. True?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 08:24 - ID#364147)
Am havin serious second thoughts(duh) about movin back ta the U.S.of A if--
TIPPER is 'FIRST LADY'............even if it is an island eight miles off the northern coast of Is this Clinton- thingy the start of the decline of the U.S.$ and thus the definite start of the GOLD- bull....Stay tuned!...bbl ( if Bart lets me )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 08:38 - ID#334174)
@Precious Metals Bank Mutuals(all my money) @ biting my nails
Have been in approx 1 1/2 yrs. Thought that this would be a great "no
brainer way to invest" Am getting somewhat more optomistic. Read every
word on this site. Beginning to be ANOTHER believer. Am concerned though
@ paper versus physical ( Although I have bought physical & maintained it
since the 70's. One of his/her past posts suggested I believe once our
beloved metal reaches 700- 1000- get into physical- my interpretation only.
For ANOTHER believers- wish someone wud attempt an explanation. Gettin'
scared. Confused- plse explain- if upward limits r $75.00/oz- ANOTHER states
cud be $200 per day. Wud like to tip a few Ted sometime in the future-
before Swan's Island. Have to go for a little while. Will peek in later.
Wife wants puter

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 08:42 - ID#347447)
Placer Domingo
HAGGIS: re Alaska gold districts - you forgot the Koyukuk. Our company is already there.

Aye, Michael

COLLEEN: Yes, I remember that Fred Crooks was also onto the 22/23 of January thing. If he was working with the NYSE horoscope, he could not have missed it. It was what I like to call an astrological "no- brainer." The trick was to INTERPRET who and what would be affected. That's where Chad pointed me in the right direction by focussing on Clinton, while I was focussed on stocks. Stocks were disappointing, but the President kept us entertained, didn't he?

EARL: re Your comments that the Clinton affair was a setup to provide a diversion in the peace process..."I think it was Sheller and his astrology," Yes...I have to come clean. You know that unknown authority that controls everything, including markets, presidents, and heads of state all over the globe? The one that emerges mythically every so often at Kitco, and in other speculative quarters? Well...that's ME. Yes, I admit it. Even created El Nino to help Cherokee. Put in a gold bottom last month for RJ. Will install Aurator as global poet Laureate next month. Will carve up the Transvaal and Wittwaterstrand for Disney. Rearranging some protons for JTF. .And I'd move the Sun and the Moon ( working on it ) for Colleen. Hey, I look out for my friends. Just wondering what to do with Bill right now.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 08:46 - ID#287207)
mozel; GW: Gold has never been confiscated in Canada.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 09:04 - ID#364147)
My wife ain't here ( grin thing ) ....bbl Kitcoites- - - gotta catch some 'rays' ( golden )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 09:08 - ID#287207)
Pre Kickoff Gloom.
Don't recall seeing this here:- - from Barrons

By Cheryl Strauss Einhorn

Key Commodity Indexes

After hitting a 19- year low of $279 an ounce on January 8, gold has
rallied; a nice gain Friday pushed its price to $300, about 7% higher than
its level two weeks earlier. But many analysts believe the rebound will
be short- lived. Why? Because the activity was largely technical, fund-
based buying. Too, Friday's market reacted to the falling U.S. dollar and
President Clinton's latest scandal. Besides that short- term activity, and
some physical sales to India, which are expected to decline after the
Chinese New Year, the same problems that plagued gold in 1997, are
likely to dog it during 1998's first half. These include: central bank
disposals, poor demand from financially worn Asia and a sound low-
inflation economic outlook that bodes better for financial than physical
assets. "The sell- side has it for the first half," says Felix Freeman,
Scotia McLeod's gold analyst. "Prices are expected to decline toward
the $265 area for the next three to four months." This is not a good sign
for gold companies. Already, the market has seen the actual failure of
Rea Gold. And just last week brought the effective failure of Pegasus
Gold. Too, despite weak prices, real- estate concern TrizecHahn
decided last week to dump its 28 million- share stake in Barrick Gold.
Clearly, Trizec thought it could put its money to better use. Ostensibly,
Trizec's gold- savvy chief executive, Peter Munk, doesn't expect prices
to revive soon. While gold stocks have been battered, they're still
generally overvalued. The average stock trades at a 70% premium to its
underlying net asset value. "There is only one possible recommendation
- - sell the lot,"asserts Freeman. He figures a decline to $265 an ounce
would reduce gold- stock prices another 16% , in part because the
shares tend to fall by 3% for every 1% drop in the metal's price. Even
more bearish, should the stocks'current premium shrink to, say, 5% of
the value of a company's total gold reserves, Freeman expects the
stocks to skid by another 30% - 34% . "This level of short- term risk
obviates buying any of these stocks, even on a more optimistic one-
year view," he says. Furthermore, possible mine closures and re-
assessments, project cancellations and companies succumbing to debt
problems will make individual stocks even more risky. Without growth
in production and reserves, it's tough to argue that these companies'
shares should be trading at a premium. And analysts estimate that the
industry can't sustain more than about six months of the current
conditions without setting back future growth by several years, owing to
the need to rebuild financial strength. So, which companies could be the
next victims of the plunge in gold prices? Most likely, those with a lot of
financial leverage- debt - - on top of their operating leverage. Financial
leverage enables a company to make a bigger bet than otherwise, but the
reverse is true, too. Companies that use financial leverage are at the
greatest risk in a market downturn. Companies fitting into this category
include: Echo Bay Mines, Royal Oak, Coeur d'Alene Mines, Amax Gold
and even gold major Newmont Gold. The most leveraged - - Freeman
calls them the "walking dead" - - have so much debt that they might not
be able to service their liabilities until the industry turns. Hence, even if
they have valuable mines, they still may not make it because it's unclear
when gold will strengthen significantly. For instance, Amax Gold just
reported yearend results. Total current assets: $118.6 million. Liabilities:
$221 million. Net current assets? Minus $102.4 million. Surprisingly,
few companies have strong hedge positions that could protect them
from a further price decline for more than a year. Without any hedges at
current prices, 40% of gold- mine production is unprofitable. Even
companies like Homestake Mining could suffer. Homestake is one of
the more leveraged equity plays on gold prices, given the company's
high costs and relatively flat forward- production profile. It isn't likely
that Homestake "will be able to post forward growth from its current
gold assets," contends ABN Amro's Tom Hinrichs. Result: Should gold
prices remain below $300, "Homestake will eventually be forced to
write down a minimum of 25% of their proven and probable reserves,"
he maintains. Says Homestake's Mike Steeves, "It is our goal to address
these concerns." Could any of these companies become takeover
targets? The experts don't think that will happen soon. Says Hinrichs:
"Many of these companies' chance of survival is next to

Bob M
(Sun Jan 25 1998 09:12 - ID#26059)
Clinton and the economy
I believe that even if Clinton manages to somehow survive this episode, his credibility will be so damaged, that I believe he will be forced to resign. The next question, will Al Gore be as good for the economy as Clinton? I would say, probably not. Clinton has been fairly economically conservative during his reign, and not the radical environmentalist that Al Gore is. Here is a man talking about banning the internal combustion engine, banning logging, etc, etc....I have to believe that his Presidency will be a major red flag to the equity markets as surely major battles between the White house and Congress will erupt..the battle lines would be much clearer between Gore and the Congress then they are with Gore is no where near the speaker as Clinton is...My last point..I believe that this event would be favorable to gold as confidence erodes in the US dollar and stock markets and uncertainty begins to take the day..couple this with the Asian crisis and the Mideast and it is beginning to look like a volatile mix...

(Sun Jan 25 1998 09:13 - ID#288295)
GW, Sam

I think that in the 30's the USG did not seize gold collector coins, only gold bullion.

Should history be repeated, another gold seizure would tend to ( instantly ) reprice collector coins at a much higher level as a safe haven. The next question would perhaps logically be, what is a collector coin?

There is no easy answer to this, but many feel that pre- 1933 gold coins of any nationality would be safe. I personally feel that to prove your intent as a collector rather than a hoarder, it is important to hold a variety of issues, dates, and grades, preferably certified/encapsulated by on of the commercial coin grading services.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 09:21 - ID#364147)
Let's try and keep the posts BRONCOS- GOLD- ABX~~~~~

Bob M
(Sun Jan 25 1998 09:23 - ID#26059)
They did not confiscate legal tender US gold coins, although many people did turn them in as the USG was not very clear in their definition..most of the circulated gold coins you find today came from hoards in Europe over the far as collections, that will be an interesting item to define

(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:03 - ID#333131)
I saw Einhorn's piece yesterday and was reassured by it. I use her as a contrary indicator. She had a positive article on gold last summer ( I believe ) which would have been a good sell signal. By the way, don't you follow CCH? Did you see the 700k trade at the open a couple days ago? It seems to be under aggressive accumulation, don't you think?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:09 - ID#364147)
aweful quiet here.....................................was everyone banished?

Quixotic 1
(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:22 - ID#176235)
Need help on purchasing pre-33 gold coins.

Dear learned Kitcoites,
I have been a lurker at this legendary site for about six months now. I'm asking for your collective advice on investing in pre- 1933 Gold coins. I'm personally interested in $5 and $2  Gold Indian coins. Should I be looking at $20 Saints and Libs? I'm very interested in this sites opinion on what grading to purchase. I am looking to diversify my physical gold holdings to include some Mint State Gold coins. What will retain its liquidity and value? What are typical buy/sell spreads ( % ) . I seem to be getting a run around from the coin dealers, they obviously want to sell their inventory. How much is a fair value relative to Coin World's pricing? I am looking to invest about 10K- 15K. Who are some of the more reputable MS quality dealers in these united States ? This site is a great resource. Keep up the great input. DOUBLE KUDOS to all.

Thank you GMJ

(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:24 - ID#35767)

With him and without an effective Clinton/ MAI/GATT etcet are dead unless the Repubs really want to push. This Clinton thing is bad news for the NEW WORLD ORDERCRATS!!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:27 - ID#364147)

(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:33 - ID#348286)
@Meet The Depressed
James Carville didn't sound half as cocky as he did one week ago.
Go AL.
Bubba to be led away in chains.
Hilary, I know you are a lawyer, but as a wife have you no shame?
Waiting for Asian trading as an indicator......


Gotta run

(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:35 - ID#364147)
PRIORITES...................................huh.....It'll be interesting to see the flight of the -
U.S. dollar+ GOLD t'nite in Asia ( in light of Willy- gate ) but I'm more currently pre- occupied by the fact that my TV ( BOOB- ) screen is completly blank ( lost satellite feed )'s 'early' but...........PANIC is startin ta kick- in....might need someone ( here,duh ) to give me the 'play- by- play' worry~~~~~~~

(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:36 - ID#288295)
Quixotic 1

$20 St Gaudens and Liberties in the lower MS grades offer the lowest premium to bullion. Some contacts posted for you in my 00:04? response.

Certified coins are highly liquid and can be bought/sold over the phone with ease, no question on grading.

Maybe some of the coin dealers on the site can help you with some of the specifics you asked about.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:39 - ID#286199)
Quixotic 1
Start here and look around. Bart has a good URL link page with some coin dealers on it. Get an education before purchasing. You will have to "repair" this link by cutting and pasting and then deleting the space added by this site.


(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:42 - ID#410198)
Facts about gold recall
As a gold dealer,let me say that a gold recall should be the last consideration,when buying numismatics or bullion,a gold recall will only happen when the people lose faith in banks and finacial houses and start hoarding hard assets,as was the case after 1929 it took till 1933 before the government acted,gold is not an investment it is an insurance against the unknown,if you don't understand the past you will be lost in the future,my advice find a trustfull dealer buy what you feel is good value,put it away and pray you never need to use it.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:51 - ID#93232)
@I have it from irrefutable earsources (MINE) that....
the MAGNIFICENT StradMaster, may I repeat?...Our StradMaster, is a giant violinist. I am presently being blown away by his performance of Tchaikovsky D major, Op. 24. There is absolutely no telling who is on Kitco. Frankly, and oh I hate to say it, but...Endre the Strad Master can kick James Brown's butt. Ohmy! What an entre by Endre for the Super Bowl....the StradMaster could kick Brett and John's collective butts!
Ohmy! Bravo! Encore!!! Send the StradMaster ten bucks and get a can't have mine. Ohmy!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:51 - ID#35767)
I live in the Wash Area and a friend of mine on the Hill says if Clinton goes... get ready for Vice President Gephardt in the interest of party unity. Many Dems on the Hill are secretly hoping Clinton goes so they get incumbency advantage in 2000. Plus many feel Clinton was too friendly to business and anti- labor by supporting NAFTA GATT. A Gore/ Gephardt team will appear "clean" and would be much more to the left on economics than Clinton/Gore.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:52 - ID#288295)
Quixotic 1

Here's a spreadsheet for US gold from NGE ( You will have to repair the link by removing the space after dash ) support/prod02.htm

Shop around before you buy.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 10:58 - ID#35767)
Gephardt is really the antithesis of Clinton 1 ) No bimbos 2 ) A true economic progressive and 3 ) Pro life, as he has twice voted to outlaw partial birth abortions/ He is very religious! MeThinks Wall St would not like this choice.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:01 - ID#93232)
Both thumbs up for Gephardt! He's the best they've got..IMHO.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:07 - ID#153116)
Thanks for the Moral Support
Having been a lurker on this site since I found it in November, I have been impressed by the level of intelligence that has gone into almost all of the postings I have seen here ( whether or not I agreed with them ) . I thank you all for giving me the reassurance that gold was as undervalued as I thought it was when I bought ABX in November. It was tough to watch it drop another 18 percent after I bought it but with all ( well mostly all ) of your help, I was able to hang in there. Thanks to Bart for such a great site and thanks to all of you for managing to bring such a high level of optimism to the bear market experience.
Go Gold!!!!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:08 - ID#31868)
You may not be banished. There are 48 ready to ride in your defense.

However, there is a condition to the above.

You must at some point today make a child laugh.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:11 - ID#93232)
@Ted....potential psychic problems....
Does your buddy Eddie have a workin' T.V.? Evidently, yesterday you stood on the edge of the cyber cliff yesterday...approaching the limits of least we know what the edge feels like now. Pretty cool...tolerant and I would have jumped with you...time to fly.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:15 - ID#427357)

THE MAGIC PEN by Dr. Paul Hein

Bankers own the earth... Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money and control credit, and with a flick of a pen they will create enough to buy it back.

In recent years, bankers have bought the Orient. BankAmerica's share was 16 billion. J.P. Morgan kicked in 23 billion, Chase Manhattan 32 billion, and Citicorp 60 billion.

Dr. Hein paints the financial absurdity of what is transpiring in the Far- East today. To read his thought- provoking essay go to the above URL.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:18 - ID#35767)
Can you imagine THIS MOVIE when it comes out/ A Blockbuster to beat "Titanic"!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:23 - ID#223329)
Where do you think gold will go from here is it on its way to recovery or will there be more downward pressure this week due to the big run up on FRIDAY

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:31 - ID#153102)
Public Law 91-151
The Credit Control Act of 1969 grants the President the power to direct the Federal Reserve Board and "any other agencies, federal or state, which are available and appropriate" to control ALL credit allocation in the United States. FinCen. FEMA. NSA. CIA. ATF. DEA. IRS. DOD. and all of the visible regulatory agencies.

Anything involving a Federal Reserve Note is potentially a credit allocation.

Section 206 empowers the President to require transactions or persons or classes of either to be registered or licensed and the limitations, terms, and conditions for any such registration or license.

None of the above are emergency powers.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:31 - ID#432148)
Barron's gloom on future of gold price...
IMHO There are only two kinds of individuals who predict the future gold price- those who don't know, and those who know they don't know. We all "...see through a glass darkly", no matter how much money or power we have; something we all should be mulling over, this weekend especially.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:37 - ID#344308)

denver fixing to be world champs....the smoke- signals were
evident long ago....

oooh.....ooooh the smell....can't you smell the smell?? lynyrd skynyrd- -
the REAL BOSS- - - - - - - - -

the smell of a paper- bonfire burning around the globe......the stench
of ink in the air.....a veritable poison with- in a poison....
ink- filled many will seek, and not find, treatment
for their life- threatining burns and smoke filled lungs?

we do not need the afc to win, to know whence paper goes...

chaos and flux have a ring through the nose of the bull.....and the
bull will go where led......i smell glue......

the poor peopleo........they could not know......they were born into
somnambulance......and they will die somnambulists......un- aware of
their place in history as fodder for the few......the few who knew....
we will fly as the phoenix.....another day...another way......
with politico's and lawyers hides strung high, for all to see! their
date with chaos and flux is at hand.......let the purge begin.....

i've got the roto- rooter toilet un- stopper at the ready to keep
the effluent moving on its' way......ted......we've got another
full load........activate the flush mode......

'for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction' in

what does this law portend for equities? pm's? ...huge reversals.....
at least equal to their current positions.........

gold is fixing to reign supreme.....while paper wipes @ss, as it should

refer- - - - - did not read your post till this morn.....

the de- coupling of paper from gold and silver.....period. that is
what has caused us to be where we are today......the currency crisis
is a result of this imf fiasco.......every- thing is a result of these
policies that were instigated by the international bankers.....
they would control absolutely.....absolute power corrupts absolutely...

cherokee!;- - counting- the- quivered- ones- - - silently- with- purpose- - - - -

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:39 - ID#224149)
Ted - If you see Soros and his herd of sheep in CB selling C$ let me know - - - Hate going long - - - when the country killers visit Canada - - - - sorry- - - - - I meant Slime Buckets - - - Away to feed EB.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:42 - ID#340459)
Barron's Article- posted by Selby #287207
Any view's on Barron's view, this is Read by more Investors than our forum here

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:44 - ID#93232)
Good chop..."country killers"....pentatonic fourths and sevenths...but alot of fifths to you, man.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:48 - ID#371471)
macbug: big losses
Macbug, I too have lurked on this line, and as a non- gold bug, I've been amazed at the tenacity ( or trading ignorance ) of those who like yourself will hold positions for 18% losses before admitting that your thesis is improper. Trading is a very very difficult business, but the most important aspect of it is to understand that you are but one person pitting your wisdome against the collective wisdom of the market. When the market has told you by pushing your trade 18% against you, to continue to hold that same position is trading lunacy. Keep your losses to 1- 2% of your capital my friend; look for risk/reward trades that have 3- 5:1 possibilities, and try to trade when and only when ( as you subjectively evalue them ) they are better than 60:40 in your favour. AT least then you will survive to fight another day. You are lucky that the President's misfortunted have bailed out your position. You will likely not be that fortunate a second time in either this position or any other.

These are the words of an old, wizened trader who made the mistake you made many times before. I shall try my best never to make that same mistake again.... sadly, it is the mistake that gold- bugs are most prone to making. Regards, tgl.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:48 - ID#318118)
@ All Cape Breton Residence
If you folks are not careful with your praise of your home, you're going
to start a mad rush of tourism. I don't believe you want that. Man has a way of contaminating everything he touches. Just look at Niagra Falls.

I have some very fond memories of Cape Breton when we visited four years
ago. I would like to return in a few years for another visit if it hasn't
been ruined by excessive tourism.

Did any one else see the young lady on NBC news yesterday that stated that she thought the Clinton thing has really been blown out of proportion. She really said a mouth full. ( sorry, couldn't resist after )
seeing that ) .

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:48 - ID#93232)
@Re: Barron (barren) authoress Cheryl Strauss Einhorn.....
I never had sex with Einhorn, but I did have sex with a good friend of hers one time. Go Gold.!!!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:49 - ID#339274)
Barron's gloom?
FWIW Earning multiples of senior and junior gold companies will be
brought back into line by either higher gold or lower stock prices.
Physical gold is forming a long term bottom.April 20 to be exact.
Stocks will rise but will top out at the end of August and to make a new low in February 99.
Sense of perspective,Placer made a low at the end of '74 of $4.20.
It had earnings of $1.10 and paid a dividend of .40.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:49 - ID#424187)
Looking for URL on Gold that shows BID/ASK & Volumn

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:52 - ID#364147)
Will try- n tone it down ( sorry ) .......still no pic on BOOB- TUBE~~~

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:52 - ID#432157)
to TGL
For a novice,
PLEASE give me your thoughts on how to structure a trade.


(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:53 - ID#255151)
Super Bowl Sunday

Go Colts!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:54 - ID#288295)


(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:54 - ID#35767)
Clinton's Response
He never had an affair as when he was "doing it" he was thinking of Hilliary thus, in reality the affairs represent an unbelievable level of marital fidelity.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 11:57 - ID#270224)
Scound Gold Direction
Long term it should go up. The supply should drop due to unprofitable mine shutdowns at sub $300/oz U.S. prices. The price eventually will be a function of its industrial value. All commodity values are down right now oil, pulp and paper, metals ( e.g. copper and nickel ) . Gold is in the same class. Silver should go up faster in price because it is a byproduct of other assets like copper. If an unprofitable mine producing copper shuts down then its silver production shuts down also. Once people get over their fixation with "compound interest" on paper assets and Asians are able to finance their debts via cheap exports they will dump U.S. dollar assets and the relative value of all commodities in U.S. dollars will rise. Be patient and stay out of debt ridden gold assets like Pegasus and Royal Oak. This Clinton/Iraqi mess may give us a short term big bounce in price but it may not be permanent.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:00 - ID#26669)
@Studio_R+ROR+those who wonder
Ok worriers and warriors, I think not Gephardt. Herr Gore doesn't need a second who is stronger than himself in the area of wealth aquisition. But the Dems want to consolidate their areas of strength in the social 'control' realm. They need someone who is charmingly antiLife, anti2ndAmendment, antiFamily, antiEqualOpportunity, antiRightToWork, and politically expendable. Their first choice will be Feinstein. IMHO

The Dems HAVE to consolidate their control over the unions and the sluttish, t.v.addicted welfaresucking American masses before they can further consolidate their antiBusiness programs. Watch Oprah, Rosie and Rikki Lake for more details. IMHO

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:01 - ID#427357)


ORACLE has discovered yet another investment vehicle, whereby the hapless Asians might have SAVED EVEN MORE of their destroyed wealth - IN FACT CONSIDERABLY MORE!: SILVER.

The report shows charts depicting the price of SILVER in the five
beleaguered currencies during the last six months: Thailand's baht, Indonesia's rupiah, Malaysia's ringgit, Philippines' peso and South Korea's won. RESULTS ARE ASTOUNDING!

Whereas GOLD was and is a bonanza for Asians, SILVER is indeed a TREASURE- HOUSE. Even the most blind and ardent adherent to paper money is forced to concede THE VISUAL PROOF OF THE SILVER SAVIOR.

To read the report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:04 - ID#364147)
ror: yer ( 10:58 ) was the WORST post I have EVER read on KITCO! ( are ya tryin ta bait me ( again ) into sayin somethin ( I shouldn' ) Tolerant1:I hate kids............especially 'the day after' is a fereign country and friend Eddie only gets ATV ( Double Exposure is on ) and CBC ( NOT the Stupor Bowl is on ) ...get the 'pic'?? I still don't!! Poorboys: Watch ya feedin em ( careful he bites! ) ...Go Team gold + Broncos ( little early ta be drinkin,ain't it AURIC... ) Larry Bird- - - he da man!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:06 - ID#410114)
gold recall not
There will be no gold recall. To do so, would cause even more panic. What the gov't would do is to forbid the purchase or sale of gold. I think they would argue that if the American public for irrational reasons changed their diet to exclusivly cotton candy they would also forbid the use of this product. Look at tobacco

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:07 - ID#251268)
golddkm predicting?
Well my guess is you are confusing gambling and speculating to gamble is to play odds, to speculate is to see ( try ) into the future.Speculate is from the same root word as spectables ( glasses ) ,so naturaly we try to blend the two risking our money on the odds of what we SEE coming to pass,if it was known already what is going to happen there would be no value or reward to what we do.If you don't try to predict the future how do you plan for it?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:09 - ID#364147)
With no TV picture on 'Stupor Bowl' Sunday,a 'weaker' man would turn to----

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:11 - ID#93232)
@223...Feinstein...frankenstein....beerstein,,,I resign....
Could someone please explain to me...Why is it that you simply can not get tired of listening to Francis Albert Sinatra...why is this? Did he ever sing a bad song?....give it to me 24 hours a day...I'll be happy.
Go Goldbugs! Traders par excellence! Second to numb.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:15 - ID#270224)
Scrond read Vronsky 12:01 post
Great post Vronsky! How long do you think that it will take Asians with cash to park some of their money in non- U.S. precious metal assets after seeing graphs like those Vronsky posted?

Silver is up because of industrial demand inspite of global deflation. Truly it is a rare and expensive to produce asset. Lots of gold mines have no silver in them.

Don't you love wealth that can't be printed?!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:26 - ID#93232)
...foggy London town.......
Rosemary Clooney.......mellow torme'

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:31 - ID#316237)
Gold Markets Open
What time does the Sydney market open today. As Clinton's fortunes have fallen over the weekend, Gold's should have risen. I am eager to find out if Gold can follow through well past 300.


(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:34 - ID#344308)

studio- r- - - - -

be- calmed....smoke- signals- ss#1- are en- poor thing..
being raised before the greats of music came along- - - -

steely dan- - - - 'throw out your gold teeth and see how they roll'
'the answer they reveal, life is un- real'

yes, life is un- real.......and those crooners of yester- year are too!

tom- toms and moog.............the ssm is fueled..

....we built this city on rock- n- roll......jefferson starship- - - - blows against the empire- - - will we, with gold....!;

the mine field ( options ) is laid......let the shorts run for cover....
gold....let the longs bolt for the doors.....bonds, soybeans, corn,
eurodollars, c$, mpeso, equities.......the lawnmower and its' blade,

1000k in '98........let the games begin........

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:35 - ID#254137)


When does St. Helena go x- dividend ( or went ) ?

Thanx. Al - free state

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:36 - ID#347447)
Predictable responses
jman makes an excellent point about speculation and prediction. Speculation, to speculate, is to use the MIND. Speculation and Prediction is a necessary part of everyday living. We speculate and predict in one sense or another for every move and decision we make.
Usually these speculations and predictions involve minor details of our lives - what should I wear for the big meeting this morning? If I don't wear a tie will I offend someone, or will I come off as too sure and "important" to trifle with such things? Will I appear more powerfully leveraged, or look like a jerk? How soon before entering the conference room should I pop a tic tac into my mouth? If it is TOO soon before, will the flavor ebb and fail to mask my coffee breath? If it is too late, will it look like I'm a dunce eating candy at an important meeting? Should I buy the medium size shrimp at $14 a pound, spend fifteen minutes more shelling them, but get more shrimp for the scampi, or should I buy those humongous tigers at nine per pound, save time cleaning them, but get the satisfaction of biting into those monsters, at $19 a pound? It's still a pound for God's sake. What the hell do I do? Ok, I buy the Mediums. And regret it until the next time...
But when we consciously awaken to the greater affairs of the world, what halfway intelligent human does not think "Hey, Mom says I'm a genius...why can't I make as much money in those markets as anyone else? Especially that dumb accountant of mine, or my doctor?"
The difference between gambling and speculation lies in the degree to which a systematic use of the mind is brought into play to increase the odds of being correct in one's judgement and timing. The element is Predicting, not simply guessing or leaving it up to fate. Naked gambling is putting a value up against a pure chance toss of the dice, or an uneducated choice of a horse in a race. Yes, karma may be kind to us, and bring all kinds of seemingly undeserved riches and fawning hangers- on to dull witted and nefarious fools while serious students of the world and all its systems starve in saintly solitude. But that's another factor we must live with. To speculate is to use the highest faculty God gave us...our Mind. It is a duty. To predict is the responsible corollary of that process. To act, finally, is our dharma, our duty, our calling, in the world. It is what defines us. If our action is based on everything in our storehouse of understanding we can bring to bear, along with the permission of our moral faculty, we are fulfilling our task on earth. If we act by whim and blind chance, or the unproven urgings of others, we are not speculating, predicting, nor are we acting responsibly. We are gambling, and sometimes we should be allowed to even do that. But our true calling is to speculate.
It is left, in this day of evaporated ideologies and diluted morality, to the speculators to uncover the king's nakedness, and save us from total totalitarian night. Think. Predict. Act. And take it as it comes.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:36 - ID#255151)

Ted- - Remember the movie Airplane, when Lloyd Bridges played that Air Traffic Controller? "Looks like I picked the wrong week to give up DRINKIN'!" Clearance, Clarence. Roger, Roger.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:40 - ID#24135)
I feel weepy
for ROR

Your 11:54 really touched me.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:40 - ID#24135)
I feel weepy
for ROR

Your 11:54 really touched me.

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:44 - ID#347447)
Don't often get out on the Long Island Expressway early in the mornings, but just 2 weeks ago was tooling out East to the printer to pick up Shareholder Updates when I caught Billy Eckstine singing "How High the Moon," accompanied by Teddy Wilson, Piano and ( I think ) Milt Jackson ) drums. Tripped me back to the old childhood, it did.

Never was crazy bout Sinatra personally, but as I've gotten older I have come to appreciate that quality of voice and phrasing that marks a simply natural singer. It's not that he never sang a bad song, it's that he always made everything he sang sound good. Still love Frankie Laine tho.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:44 - ID#93232)
@cherOkee...Studio.R lookin' musically backward...
to see the future melody and lyric clearly. Only graced with 48 anos so far...many more headlite...young Dylan ...Matchbox on fire...hotty....Sarah Mac...Fagan ( Kamakiriad ) ....Studio Spans TuneBridge to Musical 21st.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:53 - ID#93232)
@Miguel Sheller.....
You're Primo...nice post...Speculation...what will the next note be...will it ring true? yes.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 12:55 - ID#57232)
30% Interest rates in S Korea
sharefin: That does not sound like John Templeton is right that SEAsia is bottoming, does it. And 100 billion from the IMF without any country showing a recovery. Did you see TZADEAK's post about the German call for an emergency G- 7 meeting - - not to discuss the bailout of SEAsia, but to do damage control? I still do not see SDRer's posts on this - - - SDRer has the best nose for this kind on intrigue.

My assessment is that if a German official wants an emergency G7 meeting to dicuss consequences of the SEAsian crisis - that is a PR mistake - - as what should have been said is that they would be discussing how to bail out SEAsia, even if that were not true. The German PR guys were asleep at the switch - - panic time in Germany.

The Monicagate situation is the worst fix BC has ever been in - - even his former key whitehouse staff are talking about the possibility of impeachment - - and only Hillary seems to be on the warpath ( I wonder - - who is she madder at - - the press, Monica or BC? ) . The Monicagate crisis, and the fact the that the Democrats are yelling "panic" about SEAsia in congress to get the $18 billion IMF money - - is waking up the sleepy American Giant that keeps the US markets up.

My guess is that the pros in the US markets might pull the plug very soon - - but the average "mom" and "pop" are not ready to sell. It will take a little time before they pull their retirement money out of the markets.

So perhaps your "lockstep" market is ready for a fall - - next week will be interesting - - just how much of the market is in the hands of the pros - - that is the part that will go first, I think. No matter what happens, I am convinced that the US markets have seen their all- time highs until after y2k - - unless Europe goes under.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:00 - ID#30116)
If this mornings news reports are true, that there were 'eyewitnesses' to the latest alleged act of the buba who have come forward, he is done. He has been caught in a lie on T.V. live. Why should anyone believe him now? Ken Starr is reportedly not interested in doing any deals with 'the woman', he has eyewitnesses. What a mess!

Markets do NOT like uncertainty! This is almost the worst case scenario for the markets. Whither the 'safe haven'? Go gold.......

Why should AlGore be any better? He has the taint of Clinton. The Democratic party is now considering its' political position.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:00 - ID#22956)
You may have very well bought all your 'stuff' at bargain- basement- prices. Good timing seior. I am so glad that I was ( at least ) part of the reason for your purchase. And I think you are on to something with those BIG ball markers. Talk about a 'knee- knocker', eh?

And my satirical hookah post, yesterday, was just that ( wink ) . Besides, 'The Man' already knows where I live and what I do with my spare time ( no great secret ) . My subversiveness is WELL documented...uh huh, and I have no 'cause'...uh uh.

I made my first ( ever ) purchase of a plat coin last week. Bought it from a local coin shop. Told the dealer before I got it that I was being 'had' but I didn't was a small coin first issue and it is very beautiful. It will make a nice addition to my golf bag. Have yet to take it for a spin on the course......thinking about it before the game though. The weather is FANTASTIC here ( clear& sunny in the high 60's low 70's perhaps ) ....great day in my alma- mater S.D. enjoy life


(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:00 - ID#93232)
Can J. Templeton remember what he knows? Who knows? Once he was the smartest. May still be.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:01 - ID#31868)
Honesty eh. Hmmmmmmmmmm, your aversion to goats should not preclude your once having arrived. A thought your mother would, might perhaps not consider happy, to say the least.

Hmmmmmmmmm, I like you son, hate would not have been the word of choice for the disposal of a particulate of mine emotive, specific. Ergo, ( a poorly dressed man from Smyrna ) would have lied to you without placing carpets. There are many villages within Persia and the women know when to rinse no matter what you think.

There is mud above ankle depth, I hold back the riders of my choosing for the death of a loved one, killing a friend must be done by the properly chosen. Anything less is disrespectful to love, honor and I might add my promise to Mommy T.

Think again, speak not so quickly about your self- abortion, and your comment I HATE KIDS!!!

Mommy- T has stayed my hand with a touch that gentle never knew.

Her words, HONESTY is that which should ( will ) need no forgiveness, the truth is what each of us greet the sunrise with, hopefully thinking we have chosen the correct path, Mommy- T never liked shoes, but that is a totally different psalm.

If you truly feel what you said to me I say go in peace and one piece, I shall stay the reins of the riders I have chosen.

Verdi is not going to leave without displeasure, but I will point to the Swans and the Danube.

For me, for you son, not of mine, I shall go and sit beneath the tree of woe and contemplate.

We think upon various aspects of thought differently.

I have a contract with no payment, I am the protection of children, S- M- ALLs small tiny persons.

You have committed no crime here save angering me.


Hmmmmmm, beneath the tree of woe.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:01 - ID#258129)

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:02 - ID#33164)
Back & Brief- full of Buck's Fizz
John D= Jhbg- Oppenheimers. They are a really nice family IMO and do a lot of good without a great deal of fanfare.

MikeSheller@My NEW moved Sun!! Thank you, Mike! So where should I invest in GOLD?? Underground?= 4th= A MINE?? ( :- ) ) And a new SILVERY Moon?? 9th- WHICH foreign country?

Crooks is not into astrology- but did stress recently that 'crash' was not necessarily an instantaneous event, but a start/continuation of something/cycle/wave?.

Reminds me, JTF of what you once said, and which I just loved..?

"Time is something we use to identify cycles. We know that time is

something that we as humans need to understand our reality. However, quantum mechanics tells us that past, present and future are connected, so in one sense time is artificial.

What if the essence of a cycle is that reality has folded over on itself? In other words, when a cycle is repeated, a little bit of that former time becomes part of the present, and vice versa.

In other words, the more a cycle repeats, the more past,

present and future become linked."


(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:08 - ID#30116)
The opening Globex and Asian markets should be interesting. I wonder, did Fridays spike in gold happen because of the B.C. news or in anticipation of more news to come?

Maybe it's time for some Carly Simon?

"We Have No Secrets", "Anticipation", or "You're So Vain" ?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:09 - ID#344308)

jtf- - -

germany concerned over the asian currency crisis...wait
till the euro currencies take the hits that are in the
pipe. the c$ and mpeso are locked- in- step....the us$ is
just beginning its' march....the euros are next.......
worldwide- - the curriencies are coming down......harder than
ANYONE can imagine....

realistic- - - - - where forth art thou?

pm's are going to the short order.....

the bond- bomb is set to on kitco...


(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:10 - ID#370249)
@ PPT and Congress Damage control!
"Too early to talk about impeachment, Not enough evidence"
Clearly someone is very worried about the"BJ Clinton" effect on
the markets and are now in the "OK Clinton is bleeding enough, let's
now Control Damage in Markets"

Bob M
(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:12 - ID#26059)
This week the financial markets will vote on this Clinton deal and it will not be pleasant..Dow will see its first 1000+ point drop in one day a day.,.this will be a week to remember..this deal cannot fester for long too much at stake..Clinton will be gone by Thursday

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:15 - ID#57232)
Is the end of February a turning point?
All: Many of you know that I have posted about the 18.6 or so year cycle in tides. Our 18.6 year maximum will be the end of February. Unusually low tidal activity correlates resonably well with ElNinos and amazingly well with the 1929, 1987 crashes. However, market turning points do not just occur at periods of minimal tidal activity, but also at maximal tidal activity - - locking in step one way or the other for a time. This is exactly what the Bradley index of Astroinvesting fame does, and what Frank Brown, a respected Illinois researcher said about the effect of lunar cycles on fish, plant, and human behavior in individuals that are susceptible.

So - - I have reason to believe that the total Solar Eclipse on Feb 26 may be highly significant. My guess is that we will have a major market event within 2 weeks or less from that date.

Mike Sheller - - any words of wisdom? If you are not an eclipse specialist, can you contact one of your Astrology friends you trust?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:16 - ID#364147)
Tolerant1: On bended knee,I humbly ask your forgiveness for just one more radical statement on my part....No,I don't HATE kids ( they just get on my already- raw nerves ) and my 'Mommie Dearest' had similar feelins so let's just call mois a genetic mis- FIT.....Auric: Roger....over+out....Musac: 'How can ya laugh when ya know I am down'.....still NO pic~~~~~~~~horsefeathers!!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:17 - ID#30116)
Other thoughts...
Whatever happens politically, there are certain problems that remain.

1 ) Asia economic distress.

2 ) Bosnia.

3 ) Iraq.

4 ) Put in whomever else may want to test the 'new' guy or, pique the weakened one. This is probably the greatest danger.

These are not good things to have hanging under the current state of affairs. This will probably bode well for gold if gold can move another $10 - $20 in one day. This will attract much attention in the financial markets. Who was it that said to throw out your charts?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:23 - ID#370249)
@ Former Unrepentant SA Pres PW "South Africa on edge of Abyss"
But don't take my word for it here PW himself.

Another Disneyland creation!

Admits $US 80 Million goes into ABX and ONLY US$ 5million into DROOY and says in his 07:39 post "yes bigh dough is picking up
DROOY and guys who prefer paper gold buy ABX"

Can anyone see now why I say he lives in the 5th dimension and is dreaming in technicolor?

BTW I am only responding to his attacks with FACTS, which he has admitted and since he has deliberately and consitently attacked North American Shares and shamelessly promoted his beloved SA
shares in nearly 70% of his posts, I feel someone here at Kitco should respond even if only in 5% of my posts in order to bring the true FACTS
and some type of balance for astute investors.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:23 - ID#93232)
@cherOkee...don't lose that number...let the gold teeth roll....aja
You must have 1. Fagen....NightFly 2. Fagen...Kamakiriad. Fagen= 75% of SteeDanley..Becker= 35.8%

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:25 - ID#22956)
Tol1.....choose ME!
I'll go up to the Cape and straighten out that Genetic- MISfit. He will no longer be able to type when I finish with him. And he will be converted to worshiping the ShaQ and Nick Van Excellent....and all Canadians young and old will hail me as the great Avenger.....OH MY!!!!

go gold... the haste


(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:29 - ID#364147)
EB...........................AK-47 awaits yer----------------------------

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:31 - ID#93232)
@EB....carver of quartzman..silica to see....
Catch "SPRINGTIME", cut 3, Fagen...Kamakiriad...tis 'bout theme 4 U.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:35 - ID#364147)
gold RUSH..........................................

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:40 - ID#255284)
Transports of delight

Morning All-
'tis Auckland anniversary day - provincial holiday -
what a site - been catching up - not feeling v erudite at the moment, more like araldite. oh on the way...

JTF: G'day is there anything by Frank Brown available on- line? TIA

Mike Sheller great post, did I miss the recip?


I stared at your recent words on my screen and I was transported- - like a de Quincy dream, deep within the archetype, deeper than cognition and instinct, and there I stayed, I tarried, I lingered a while...merci..

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:40 - ID#347447)
February Cycle
JTF: I trust ALL my astrology friends. I just don't understand what half of them are talking about. Will do what I can. I am interested in your late February time- window as I get a potential dynamite reading for silver in March. The same aspect ( Saturn conjunct NYSE Moon ) that put silver into a major bottom in mid- '97 returns during a clearly uptrend phase in silver. With a nice abc correction seemingly in place, silver could possibly be ready for another wave up in this leg. If so, we could see a very tasty blowoff spike in March if that Saturn conjunction is positive the second time around. Last time this happened ( a final pass for Saturn on NYSE Moon ) was in May 1968. That was a beautiful move in silver.

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:43 - ID#347447)
John Disney...
or anyone else sage on South African shares...I need the ticker symbol of 2 SA gold stocks - Deelkraal, and Dornfontein. Hopefully they have not been absorbed or merged by now. Anyone helping out here gets my thanks.

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:45 - ID#347447)
I suppose now everyone is awaiting a shrimp recipe...

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:50 - ID#255284)
Mike Sheller

DLKRY Deelkraal Gold Mining Co Ltd

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:52 - ID#372344)
@ Mike Sheller...
And All, you can look up any company listed in South Africa here:

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:54 - ID#57232)
Saw your posts!
Colleen: Your posts are as thoughtful as ever! I have an intuitive feeling that the long- term wave of US popularity/self confidence is cresting - - and about to head down - - with a renewed focus on the desire for truth and honesty in our leaders, among other things. Our foreign policy is also non- existent when we have two Middle East crises at near boil.

It is always unfortunate when a big cycle like this goes from positive to negative, but as someone wiser that me said ( paraphrasing ) : the seeds of the next cycle are often sown when trouble looms.

One just needs to be optimistic, and patiently look for the renewing cycle.

PS - I have not forgotten about sending you the sunspot graphs - - I bought a new version of Netscape - - but it was Windows 95 only. Will be upgrading soon I hope. Right now I can receive graphs, but not send them. Maybe my ATT ISP is playing tricks with me, because I was able to do this several months ago.

Hope all is well in SA! Your precious metals market is going to get a big boost very soon, I think.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:55 - ID#238295)
stock market outlook
Whatever happens with BC, if the Democrats have any brains they should hope for a big stock market drop this year. That way, the markets could perhaps be roaring again by the year 2000.

Bottom line - - I don't think the powers that be would be unhappy with a steep market decline ( say to Dow 6000 or so ) as long as it is ORDERLY.

BTW, with the Puetz contrary indicator not predicting a crash this week as far as I am aware, perhaps we will finally go over the precipice in the days ahead.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 13:57 - ID#93232)
@M.Sheller....Strings singing in Long Island....
I have bought three of four jazz archtops from Mandolin Bros...L.I., Great Guy Stanley Jay. Long Live Long Island and Hoboken.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:02 - ID#24135)
They dont live here any more
For Mike sheller

Forget it Mike - Deelkraal merged with Elandsrand. Doorns

also went away - It merged in some way - over a year ago -

I could look it up - they no longer exist as independent

companies. Sorry about that - Try finding something stellar

about Randfontein or Harmony ( harmony of the Universe ) or

Northam Platinum if you can - Or even east- daggafontein.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:03 - ID#372344)
@ Mike Sheller...
All, here is another South African url free with charts.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:09 - ID#258129)
"Right now I can receive graphs, but not send them. Maybe my ATT ISP is playing tricks with me"... GTF, if you are trying to post charts here, right now it is impossible - for the second day Kitco ftp server ( software that download you file ) is not running. No way to post a chart or whatever as a file, linked to your message.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:12 - ID#258129)
Sorry, JTF, not GTF

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:12 - ID#372344)
@ SA DROOY CHART! bin/snetgraph?name= DBNDP- O

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:15 - ID#372344)
For some reason the URL I posted does not load properly here however
you can get access DROOY and my other charts here just click "graphs"

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:16 - ID#24135)
Man - get a grip
for little Z

Wooo boy - you are losing it - You'll all over the place.

Calm down. Really - get help - You're getting a complex.

I dont like you much but I dont want you to go mental.

Have a prozac - take a nap. Even better, take a trip.

What is your problem - insecurity, fear of failure,

fear of inadequacy and inferiority ( cant help you much there ) .

You're ok really - you just find it all to hard to

understand. You'll get it right some day. Keep trying.

Maybe I can help you.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:25 - ID#372344)
@ DIZZYLAND!.... Kitcoites are NOT Mushrooms!
You are the biggest propagandist and you are the one that is in
need of professional HELP.
What you have had here, and so desparetly wish to continue to have
are mushrooms ,as JTF I believe said here,
"Kept in the Dark and Fed SHIT!!!!!!!

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:27 - ID#347447)
TZADEAK: Thanks for the help, but I "saw" that DROOY chart a month ago. Ask John. Thanks all for the info.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:28 - ID#411259)
..... Coins & Scampi .....

Quixotic 1

Instead of paying the premiums for collectable coins, put you $ in bullion coins. You should be paying no more that 13 - 14 dollars over spot price, delivered.

Sheller -

Always go for the BIG shrimp. Life is short, peel not.

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:29 - ID#347447)
New Recipe
In the interests of peace at Kitco, may I introduce a tasty diversion...

OK, here it is. Because I like all you folks. My personal recipe for GRILLED PORK CHOPS SAIGON STYLE ( None of this "Ho Chi Minh City" crap - this is real Saigon style pig ) .

Get a big shallow pot or cauldron or huge bowl that you can marinate stuff in, and put in a cup of Chinese or Phillipine soy sauce ( Coconut Brand soy sauce from Phillipines is the BEST! ) Add a half cup red wine Vinegar. Peel; and roughly Chop up or mash about ten cloves of garlic and throw in. At an Asian market ( Chinese or Vietnamese ) get a powder called "5 Spices" ( it has essentially Cinnamon, Garama Masala, curry, and a number of other things...don't try to make it up yourself. Get the commercial preparation ) Add a half teaspoon of the 5 Spices to the bowl.
Add a level teaspoon of mild chili powder. Add a few splashes of your favorite hot sauce. Add less than a half teasoon of sesame oil ( Chinese, not Japanese if you can get it ) Stir.

Take 6 - 10 pork chops, not too thinly cut, and marinate them in this mixture for at least 3 hours, if not half a day. Turn the chops in this mixture frequently, moving the bottom ones up to the top, etc.

Make yourself a Martini and sip it along with the rest of the recipe: Make a charcoal grill fire ( none of these ceramic "coals" or propane bullsh*t ) . Before putting on the porkchops, tie a couple of long strands of lemon grass around each one. No particular way, just to have some lemon grass around each to impasrt that flavor as they grill. Place on Grill, fairly close to coals. Cook to desired doneness. By now you should have finished your Martini, and you can serve the chops with Black Beans & White Rice ( see previous recipe ) , or anything else you like. White rice is a good base tho. This recipe is muy authentico, da phai! Earl will attest to that, won't you Earl? This recipe is pure gold ( which justifies my mentioning it at Kitco ) and cost me almost as much as my too early gold positions last year. So value it highly...and ENJOY!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:30 - ID#57232)
Dr. Frank A. Brown, Jr.
Aurator: I wish I could direct you to a web site. I saw some of his work nearly 20 years ago, but naively thought little of it. Wasn't ready for such exotic observations.

Frank Brown worked at Northwestern University, in Evanston, Illinois, and published much work on the lunar effects on plant and animal life. To the frustration of his colleagues, little could be said to ridicule his work. He died some years ago, and as you might imagine, noone picked up the baton. The scientific community was not ready.

I have searched the web several times, to no avail, but I can give you all the references I have - - don't even have abstracts! Perhaps you will have some success where I have not - - wish I didn't have such a busy daytime job!

Frank Brown's Reference titles that I have:

Brown, F.A. , "Biological Clocks: Endogenous Cycles Synchronized by Subtle Geophysical Rythms," Biosystems 8 ( 1976 ) :67- 81.

- - - - - - ,"The 'Clocks' Timing Biological Rythms," American Scientist 60 ( 1972 ) :756- 766.

- - - - - - and Chow, C.S., "Field Interactions Between Organisms,"Biological Bulletin 145 ( 1973 ) :437- 61.

- - - - - - "Lunar- Correlated Variations in Water Uptake by Bean Seeds," Biological Bulletin 145 ( 1973 ) :265- 78.

- - - - - - , Hastings, J.W., and Palmer, J.D., The Biological Clock: Two Views ( New York: Associated Press, 1970 ) .

Hope this helps - - Please let me know if you get anywhere!

The Hatt
(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:32 - ID#294232)
Panic in the markets just may take the heat off of BC long enough to give his
team of spin doctors more time to weave their tales of deception. If the Dow were to collapse under pressure on Monday and Gold was allowed to trade at much higher levels, would this not add a new spin to how important Clintons personal life is? Just a thought!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:33 - ID#255151)
I flew my Lear Jet up to Nova Scotia to see a Total Eclipse of the Sun

Panda- - What a great day, eh? Gold is up, the beer is cold, and the Super Bowl is about to be played. It don't get no better!

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:34 - ID#347447)
Shrimp boats are a comin'
RJ: As usual, you're absolutely right. My favorite shrimp is Vietnamese grilled jumbo prawns, and they are not peeled. Get the lemon grass too. Salud!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:35 - ID#57232)
Big Shrimp?
RJ: Expecting alot of seafood to drop in your part of the world? A Tsunami, sharefin- grade, perhaps?

How are your surfer friends by the way? Still looking for the big one to roll in from the western horizon?

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:36 - ID#347447)
Tip the Hatt
THE HATT: Panic in the markets may just finally totally blow it ( no pun ) for Clinton with the American public. They can forgive him anything, 'cept taking down their stock account statements.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:39 - ID#24135)
Shameless - REALLY
gee little mushroom

You really know how to hurt a guy.

Back to your charts - Look at some

REAL STOCKS - Glad to see you're

taking an interest. But dont you

dare buy any - I wont permit it.

No toadstools allowed.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:43 - ID#22956) me........
Bart, I guess you want us Yankee doodles to get to the game early on, EH?? I git the hint. Hell, i'ts probably MY ISP anyway. Yu da man!

MikeS - gonna try your beans today...... ( poot, poot! ) ...GET REAL, GET GOLD!!

Ted - Lock and Load......'I'm comin ta git ya', jimmy hendrix...

JohnD & Tzadeak - In the words of the great Rodney King...."can't we all just get along"?? C'mon boys, bury it, for the sake of world peace, eh?

Nick@C - Welcome back mate. Funny post last night ( first one ) . NIce holiday?? You seem well relaxed....and just intime for the ( possible ) bull move. Aye, Matey!!

Aurator - My NZ friend. I will take the bait no longer. Just wanted to have fun and with it and I got more grief. boo hoo. I am still your cyber friend, no? What are your solutions for us lowly yankees ( 250,000,000 strong ) ?? .....hey wait a second, I'm not taking the bait again, strike that last question. GET REAL, GET GOLD!! And the Indians ( namerican ) and the Mexicans knew about the gold loooooong before whitey did. We just exploited it like we do so well, huh. But, i gotta say I like where I live and happy birthday gold rush!! And happy day to you down under...

all ( who care ) - Have a Super Bowl Day!!! ( big smile ) the pre- game....h M!


(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:43 - ID#57232)
I said we were like mushrooms, because we were kept in the dark.
TZADEAK: Please - - lets keep it down! You may disagree with John Disney, but there is no need to get upset about it. I am no expert on South African gold stocks - - and yes - - they have done poorly. Did poorly heading into the 1993 - 1994 gold rally. But - - then they were the stars. You might want to review the past history of that part of the world.

Also - - if gold skyrockets, it is unlikely that the SA mines will be shut down - - even with the looming political instability in that part of the world. No one will want to kill the golden goose, I think.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:56 - ID#255284)
no go, aurio..

: always cyber- buddies. How can it be otherwise - - Grist in this Kitco cyber- mill? However, I'll be in the trenches beside Ted, so you better approach with your hands full of beer...
I've heard investment stories about the superbowl, but blessed if I can remember any of them.. You know, if a team wearing red wins the market will go into free- fall on the second trading day after superbowl SUnday;;; something like that?

The 2nd final S Africa v Australia, which was postponed yesterday due to RAIN !! ( Summer rain ) should be played today.


( not Nora batty )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 14:57 - ID#372344)
@ JTF...
Thanks for the advice... But I'm really not upset believe me....
I dislike his propaganda basically, in almost 70 % of his posts he bad mouths Norht American stocks.
To respond to your view, that is exactly what I have been saying here
for some time now I believe that the US NOT allow anyone to get their hands on all that GOLD especially the Euros and the Chinese.
If the US really wanted SA Gold for themselves why haven't they
made a treaty with SA for their Gold and rule the world.
But you know this is just my view!! based on the above noted facts, if you believe that the US is just going to allow Euros and China
have all that Gold well that is also possible, but IMHO not likely.

I am more than willing to tone it down as soon as he stopsthe name calling bad mouthing North American Shares!

BTW why haven't you told him to stop?

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:08 - ID#24135)
Lets be friends - you're not REALLY a fungi
Cmon Mr Z

Lets be buddies - Im sorry i called you a mushroom.

or was it a toadstool. Anyway let's try and find some

common ground.

In the course of my travels, I was fortunate enough

to spend four wonderful years in the magical city of

Istanbul. I travelled all over turkey and love it -

Cok guzel bir memliket - hey? .

Now I love Turkey and I love Turks- the most mis-

understood and mischievously maligned people on

earth - dont you agree ?? What do YOU think of Turkiye?.

Cmon - open up. Trying to find common ground. want to

work together - men of good will kind of thing.

Do you like turkiye ?? Ever been there??

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:10 - ID#22956)
Big Shrimp Dude.........
I don't normaly buy coins and it was only tenth oz anyway. It was not for investment, but for beauty and marking my golf ball. It did not have any numismatic value ( not much anyway ) and I will never be selling it back to anyone anyway. I have not made any large purchases in bullion, and will likely not do so. The concept of hoarding gold for a rainy day is still 'foreign' to me. The barter concept seems more viable before anything else. I am a good farmer.......

btw, I will heed your 'warnings' and will take the proper steps next week. LARGE sums have been made from your advice ( free mind all ) and I plan to keep on keeping on!! Thanks BRO!! Someday we shall meet and my life will be more full because of it....



(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:12 - ID#22956)
I will walk softly.....and carry a LARGE cooler... pick up a coleman ( there 'he' is again )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:15 - ID#20137)
Not on Gold but ...
I have to say that the talk I have heard recently makes me sick and scares the HEll out of me.

What I am referring to is the recent comments by Clinton supporters and the results of recent polls. What we are being told is that a high percentage of the American people polled don't trust the president ( yes little p ) , believe that he probably did have sex ( of which we shouldn't need graphic explanations to understand what it means ) , and still they want him to stay in office.

His proponents and supporters note that he is doing a good job and what he does otherwise shouldn't matter. If he lies,  the United States has done better and is more prosperous because of his efforts.

These thoughts, beliefs and actions are the same that allowed Hitler to come to and maintain power in Germany. I will not go into the well known details.

I MUST point out CHARACTER matters, ends don't justify means. We need to remove more government officials that lie, and don't have or understand what character, integrity, honesty,  mean and/or stand for.

Sorry, I needed that. Back to gold and more comforting thoughts.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:17 - ID#255284)
The centre of the world?
Turkey! now you're talking. Istanbul, Constantinople, Byzantium, the history of history, could only stay a week, and having just travelled through Pakistan, Iran, and Iraq, not nearly long enough, but London was calling...what food!

below the salt

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:18 - ID#57232)
Must do chores before Spouse starts calling me worse things than mushrooms!
TZADEAK: I just did not rise to the bait! John Disney knows more about S African Gold stocks than you or I do. I don't take any one person's advice anyway, no matter how convincing or mysterious it is - - and we do have some wild ones! ( and I'm not talking about John Disney either! )

Do you get Northern Miner? They do have some S African stuff. I like it because it is unbiased - - although they got taken to the cleaners like the rest of us with Bre- X.

The Hatt
(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:24 - ID#294232)
Thoughts From S.E. Asia!
Let us not forget the power of Gold! Will weakness in the U.S. Dollar push Gold higher or will the tables turn? In other words will the lead indicator become Gold and the Dollar start to take a back seat? Sounds far- fetched, one must remember the Asians now have a vested interest in a weaker U.S. Dollar and maybe just maybe they have discovered that a strong move in Gold prices will serve their purpose twofold. Rumours of hoarding in Europe and now rumours of a single Asian currency both of which would be backed by Gold sheds a different light on the upside potential of Gold. Could the breakout event we have been waiting for be Gold itself. If so the often read predictions of multiples of the current Gold prices would become reality. My humble opinion is that YES we have seen the bottom and my predictions of $500.00 Gold appears to be on the conservative side. I am by all accounts a contrarian and every single dollar I have allocated towards investment is in Gold related assets. My broker keeps telling me that I am crazy and that I need to diversify but what the hell, I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is. I have to wonder how many equity fund managers are this commited to the funds they so recklessly manage! Mandatory disclosure of Fund Managers personal investment strategies would send shockwaves through the average investors perception of safety and capital growth.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:26 - ID#238422)
I tried to talk to Z in the same manner as you
do now. It did not work. Z is too upset....

Be careful, at the end you gonna be called "little boy".
I got my share, enough for me.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:30 - ID#57232)
I've noticed too!
A.Goose: I agree with you that the public seems to be asking to be hoodwinked. A dishonest leader is ok as long as times are good, because the good times are linked to our leader as the cause of them. Just wait till the market corrects a bit - - or one of our nuclear carriers has an accident with one of those little missle- equipped Irani speed boats.
Public opinion just isn't what it should be, is it? We are just like that slow- cooked frog aren't we? We don't know what bad things are being done to us if it is done slowly enough. On the other hand, when the public finally does get riled up - - no politician will stand in the way!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:32 - ID#57232)
Signing off -- will log in tonight to look for fireworks!
Fireworks in the markets, not Kitco!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:32 - ID#258129)
@KITCO does not responing. No way to upload a chart!!!!!!!!

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:36 - ID#24135)
always hopeful
to all

looking at charts - gold MAY have just penetrated

recent highs in stirling,swiss, and the dmark. The

downslope topside yen resistance line may just been

broken. Its thin - a move up in gold in currencies

tomorrow would be great.

Tomorrow Ill TRY to find out where the DDeep buying

was coming from. Must be foreign. I can probably

find out the broker buying - Im mystified - DD is a thin

market - I tried to sell 2% of the company myself about

some months ago. It took a month. Their results will be

out in a day or two - they MUST be pretty poor. Have

they done a deal with Bernatz ??

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:37 - ID#238422)
The Hatt
Dear friend, I understand you, you are probably
right, but you are too excited. Forget about
$500 gold, it's not gonna make it because Mr.Clinton
had some fun. Otherwise, I'm with you...

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:37 - ID#372344)
@ JTF...
He may claim to know about "mysterious" SA stocks, but does that automatically make him a guru in North American stocks?
And what right does he have to name call and bad mouth NA Shares?
Anyway I have had enough fun debuking him for what he is
The Premier South African Propagandist and for the record I am
a Canadian and proud of it! And I do not pre- judge any peoples
based solely on their origin or ethnicity, but assess each individual
on their deeds, be it good or bad. And NO I have never been to Turkey
although I intend to travel Europe again next year and who knows?

Back to more serious discussion The Northern Miner whose url
I pasted below is essentially a Canadian publication with mostly
NA shares reporting. I have posted some interesting sites in SA
that do give some analysis , I will try to post more url on SA
so that "mysterious" Shares there will come to light and maybe
Kitcoites will not need to feel like "mushrooms".

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:38 - ID#224149)
Tzadek , Disney - - Waiting for the big Game - - - - - - Kito - - brings the pre- game fireworks - - - I guess Gold will have the same battle Monday - - - Away to find a broken ego

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:39 - ID#31868)
Their hooves mashed into mud, they wished, threatened, this is no movie, as I raised an empty hand which made all of them think again. Thor, Ben Grimm, the Metal Men and the lady Platinum, even the Hulk and Spiderman, Ironman, all stood aghast.

And so they must face the beginning of the end.

I am HEIMDAL, or they see me as his likeness.

The end of my life is dying from wounds killing Loki, SO BE IT! Gleefully I enter the netherworld. My last thoughts are not of a pension.

TED There is nothing for you to have done, to kneel before me as I am midget and therefore only half as tall of all of that which I know is not just more than me, but that which you are when you have scaled the kindness of your mind and there is no looking back.

There is nothing for me as I see the rainbow under that which I think I stand upon other than my wish for your willingness to be kind to others.

Thus having been uttered I say this, live free or die and explain this to children .

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:40 - ID#364147)
Kitco COP...........................................Tzadeak(14:25) Watch the -----------------
Swearin! Auric ( 14:33 ) Is that what 'this' is ( a total eclipse of the sun? )
The eclipse is nearin its end and a slooow clearing is gradually taking place and even a picture is beginning to appear on the boob- tube...AS you said,can life get any better!!...A few 'cold ones',a good puff,and the Super Bowl ( yeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssss ) ...Can one get any more mindLESS...?Denver 23- - GB 20

The Hatt
(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:40 - ID#294232)
JTF you are so right!!!!!
The one section in The Great Reckoning that I did not buy into was the fact that we could see civil unrest however I have slowly changed my perception and now believe that Civil unrest is a certainty. Average people will be lined up outside of Mutual Fund Offices attempting to get their money only to be told there is no money! The investment strategy of averaging into a fund will become likened to amortized fraud and for the poor seniors of our Country the message of back to work to survive will not be taken lightly. The likes of Rubin and Greenspan will go down in history as two men who could of prevented this theft and for whatever reason didnot. Resignations of these two are forthcoming! Just one mans opinion!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:42 - ID#238422)
John Disney
John, you got .38 and you know Stravinsky
ans Dmitri Shostakovich. You are my man...

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:47 - ID#347447)
Does this mean if I stand on your shoulders I will see nothing?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:47 - ID#426220)

THE END OF THE LINE... for the Silver Lease CON

Ted Butler is the worlds foremost expert in nuances, intricacies and ramifications of GOLD & SILVER LEASES. Many months ago he exposed the Central Banks ill use of Gold Leasing Operations. Now he shares his insightful observations regarding the Silver Loan CON.

And don't be surprised with future tactics intended to derail
what promises to be a very long and sharp price UPWARD spiral for silver.

...there is no way that the vast bulk of silver loaned can ever be returned.

That was then, this is now - the silver lease CON is over! Here's
why: the report may be read by copying & pasting the above URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:47 - ID#177109)
mesage to Sheller
did you receive an email de moi?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:48 - ID#177109)
Wifey loves the instructions for the pork chops, especially the martini part.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:52 - ID#227238)
Under the yum yum tree.
Mike Sheller: Just printed your recipe for Saigon pork chops. ... Regretably, I failed to print your recipe for black beans and rice. If you ( or anyone else ) remembers the day it was posted, I would be appreciative. Mostly. ...... or if you have the original hardcopy - email would work as well. Thanks.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:52 - ID#224149)
Ted - Sorry to hear about the death of your dish - - - - - - Hope you get it working by tomorrow - - - Some Kitco posters will be on "The Days Of Our Lives" - - Away to find the Soap Guide

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:53 - ID#347447)
Received your message Wednesday. That the one? Thank the wife for me. Those chops are dy no mite.

The Martini watchword is Very dry and only ONE olive. Too many olives displace too much booze. Is it 5:30 pm yet?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:54 - ID#270236)
SA gold shares.
If we are indeed in a bull market for gold, the
high cost South African shares will outperform other gold stocks because
they have more operating leverage. That's been
the case in every mining share bull market: the
high cost producers and the exploration companies
do better.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:54 - ID#177109)
Mike, Earl
I see a great destiny ahead for Kitco. Forget the gold. Let's eat!!!!

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:57 - ID#347447)
Chao Ong, Bro! Just emailed the recipe for Frijoles Negros Cubano.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:58 - ID#177109)
yep that was it on Wednesday. any thoughts appreciated.
Bombay sapphire gin straight up lightly shaken so as not to bruise. One jalapeo- stuffed large olive ( trout olive company, las vegas, nm ) . All's well with the world.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 15:59 - ID#93232)
@Score at the bell.....Super Bowl XXXII....'da limb....
31- 13

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:00 - ID#347447)
Now yer talkin'.

Hey Earl, I hear they got Vietnamese Nuoc Mam in the Asian food markets in New York now. Got to get over to Flu- shing some weekend and see. Best fish gravy in the world. None like it. Had some 33 Beer from Saigon brewery already out here on the Island. They go into Chinatown in Manhattan to get it by the case. Still tastes like that old rotten Saigon water. Good old Tiger Piss. Yummmmm.

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:02 - ID#347447)
I KNEW there was SOMETHING I liked about you. Bombay Sapphire is my favorite gin. Salud.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:05 - ID#432148)
Prediction...(jman) defining terms
I understand and agree with you on the differences between gambling and speculation.

I believe speculate comes from the latin root word "speculari" to look at or examine. Prediction comes from from the latin root "praedicare", to make known ( or literally to speak before ) .

My thought is that speculation involves taking into the brain certain

thoughts and processing them, and perhaps coming to a conclusion. There

is no requirement of output. Predicting involves speaking and/or writing, ( output only ) and at best assumes that the thought processes involved in speculation occurred, including that the prediction accurately defines the results of the thinking going on in the mind of the person who makes it.

When it comes to predictions..."caveat emptor". However, I may have

been a bit too hard on predictors in the previous posting. Thanks.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:06 - ID#177109)
Stupor Bowl XXXII
Heard the first one on an old Halicrafter's shortwave radio at the embassy residence in Nouakchott Mauretania. Old Armed Forces Radio fading in and out..............good beer though as I recall.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:08 - ID#258129)
Gold price
I was intend to post a chat here - no way - ftp uploading service is not operational for a two two days. IMO, and I am really sorry to say that, after a few days up in a coming week gold will re- test 290 or even less I wish to proof it with a chart, but it is impossible right now - not possible to post a chart. Of course, scandal in White House may overwrite charts, but for a time being, only, there will be a withdrawal in a short time I am not saying anything about long- term perspective - just current situation

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:09 - ID#153102)
The conditions change which gave a word its meaning, but there is no official or popular recognition of the fact. Investment. Buying. Selling. Markets. Tops. Cycles.

Federal Reserve Notes are credit.

Power to create unlimited credit. Credit created by speaking it into being like sorcery. New credit was once added to the liability side of the ledger. What is it that commands it must be so today or always ? They are just numbers. I am just doing my job.

Power to allocate ALL credit, to control by limitations, terms, & conditions credit allocation to or through or by persons and transactions or classes of either. I am just doing my job.

Clinton is not popular with the army. We are safe. Hitler was not popular with the army.

He has everything he needs, the power, even the legalities, everything except the law. If most of the people do not know it, or care, is it a factor anymore ?

It's Super Bowl Sunday. I wonder who has the football.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:10 - ID#372344)
@ TED.....
Sorry Dude I didn't mean to offend your" sensitive " ears or eyes, but
I meant to say "kept in the dark and fed MANURE.

John Disney__A
(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:10 - ID#24135)
Dmitri is top gun - Z is top mushroom
For Boris

Thanks for trying to help with z

Wow I give up. He's one tough little cookie

You mean he's gonna call me "little boy"??

I might crack if he does that - he made me wince

when he said I was "shameless" - ohooooo that hurt.

Im covered all over with bruises and scratches -

maybe I can pour a little absolute on my wounds.

He said I was a "propagandist" - thats a pretty big

word hey.

All I did was call him a mushroom - he took it the

wrong way I think.

Whats wrong with mushrooms - I love them.

Im gonna leave him alone - that mushroom's got a

mean streak.

I have all stravinsky on cd - and all dmitri symphony

except No 15. dmitri can turn string sections inside out.

A genious - Rachmaninov ok too - I was russian in past life.

but was not RED - maybe was romanov family - I think I was

Anastasia. I remember snow - vodka - caviar - blini - sounds

like Russia - am I wrong ??

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:12 - ID#177109)
I hope you have all the Prokofiev piano sonatas too...

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:12 - ID#261151)
The Wonder Dog

let's see now... The Prez says he had no improper relationship with marihuana, and that he tried Lewinsky but didn't inhale. Do I have this right? Arf, Buddy

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:18 - ID#266105)

A voice as cool as sandalwood, a face like a lotus flower,
heart like a scimitar, excessive humility; these are the
signs of a rogue. Sanskrit proverb, I know it by heart.

outta here

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:21 - ID#197229)

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:21 - ID#334174)
Ted@Kitco Cop
Maybe you shud expand ur newfound career. I envision you catchin the elderly eatin' grapes at Sobey's or perhaps catchin' people with nine
items goin thru the 8 item counter- even a Greetor @ Wal Mart- u cud report
on people going in the out door & shud that prove profitable expand to
those going out the in door. Buy cardboard- 4 cents a ton today- 6 tomorrow.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:21 - ID#33164)
Bits & Pieces
Some 'weird' stuff for you chaps. His success ratio is supposed to be 90 odd%

Local Johannesburg news -

Personal Finance - Saturday Star, under heading of "Few can Predict Future of Markets' - Money Matters/by Magnus Heystek.

"- A quick guide to the various views in the week- end papers:

- Personal Finance Lead Story, quoting several top fund managers: "Hang on to your shares and unit trusts, the market is recovering"

- Clive Roffey, writing for the Sunday Independent: " The great bear market has just begun. Sell all your shares and buy GOLD. The gold price will rally"

- Derek Sumption [Sunday Independent] "The rand is not doing too badly"

- Stephen Mulholland[Sunday Times] "One third in cash, one third in property & one third in the stock market"

- Saturday Star Property Section: "Interest rates to boost property market"

- And we had Fred Crooks on Radio 702 this week: "Something is going to happen in the next month. Stock markets will come crashing down and the gold price will rise STAGGERINGLY [my own caps]" [Sharefin?@JTF?@MikeS?- do you agree?]

So there you have it from good old RSA, [Jhbg version].

JIN- Are you back? How are things with you? Do take care- have thought of you often..

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:23 - ID#234218)
Lost in cyberspace????????????????

Does anybody, or everybody, know the URLs for monitoring market movements and POG for markets other than Canadian and NYSE?
If there is such a thing I sure would appreciate someone passing them along. I haven't had much luck finding any.


(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:23 - ID#238422)
John Disney
John, believe me or not,
but I always feel you are
what I call... old russian intellegent...

You know, it's very respectful definition.

There are not a lot of these people left...

Hopefully, I'll make it one day to meet you.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:23 - ID#344308)

where is this market- - - us$- - - - - - going in the next 2 weeks?

damned near a sure bet........down.......

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:26 - ID#30116)
Auric, mozel
Auric - - Loading the CD now... How prophetic, sometimes, the title of songs are..

mozel - - That's a good question! WHO does have THE FOOTBALL? No, I'm not talking about football.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:28 - ID#344308)

this is the url for the us$......the previous one
is for bonds.......

klinton kicked the turbo on, in these already topped- out
markets......paper.....and klinton...birds of a feather.....
they will flock together at the bottom of the rubbish heap.......

gold next- - - - - - -

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:28 - ID#347447)
With apologies to Tort
Buddy the Wonder Dog put me in mind of a dog joke Pepi once told me. He tells it better'n me, but here goes ( scroll past if you heard it already ) .

Guy rushes into a talent agent's office with a pooch under his arm and says "You gotta see this! You gotta hear this! This dog can talk!" "Sure, sure," the jaded agent says rising from his chair about to throw man and dog out. "Fido," says the man, "What 's on top of a house?" "Roooof" says the mutt. "See, see," the man exclaims, " he said ROOF!" The agent starts to glower at the both of them, but the man presses the pooch once more. "What's a woman's name?' he asks the dog. "ROOOOF" says the mutt. "See, see, he said RUTH!" The agent has just about had it, but the guy says to the dog "Who was the best ballplayer that ever lived?" "Rooooof" says the dog. "See, see," says the man excitedly, " he said Babe Ruth!" whereupon the agent throws them both out into the hall.

On the way to the elevator, the dog sticks his head out from under the man's arm and say "Maybe I shoulda said DiMaggio?"

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:29 - ID#177109)
state of the union(s)
latest rumor: state of the union message will be postponed a week and will be given by president gore after additional girls come forward tomorrow......

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:31 - ID#197229)
Re: Clinton popularity

A.Goose. The truth of the matter is that the majority of the people are
more contented with their life currently, than has been the case in many years. They wish and hope for no change in their life. The morals of
the man was widely known years ago. Bush lost his office due to the state of the economy in 1992. The American people wanted change.
Clinton became the beneficiary of the mood. That is how we elect
people to office. In recessions we will generally oust the party in power.
Morals is not a particulary relavent fact. If it were, we would have a hard
time voting for anyone currently in Washington.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:33 - ID#26793)
Hundreds left destitute by Hong Kong collapse. Demand bailout.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:33 - ID#329157)
Equity fund flows reversing?
Equity inflows decreasing, fund inflows turning into outflows, redemptions increasing...

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:33 - ID#30116)
This has really become ridiculous!
The Super Bowl on the 'net? Give me a break!!

O.K. I get it. The Internet takes over all other forms of communication!

And you can even vote on who you think will win....

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:34 - ID#23398)
Gold can be depressing

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:37 - ID#33164)
Frank Sinatra
has always made my toes curl....

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:38 - ID#347447)
Regarding Fred Crooks, I get a good potential reading for silver in March, and I think we can look for significant action with this one. My guess is a spike on this uptrend, so I guess we can say gold should be doing well there too. My next Astrological Investor at Gold Eagle will try to continue where "Stress Test" and the "New Years" piece left off. Clinton has lots more powerful aspects into May ( actually end of April/early May looks like the big head on the crisis for Clinton ) . It gets a little complicated for non astrological civilians ( will be child's play for YOU though ) , but I'll try to make it generally understandable. Also will try to touch upon Treasury, the Fed, and other institutions . This is the hot story.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:39 - ID#344308)

and gold- - - - -

'if' buy low, sell high is the way to play.....

where should your money be? paper? the flame- thrower
is fully charged.....

FARENHEIT 451- - - - - - - the temperature at which paper burns.....
the klinton flame- thrower IDLES @ 1000F! wait till the switch
is thrown, and the jellied gasoline bursts into flame across
the paper and metal markets world- wide.....the paper will be
incinerated.......the metals simply melt and morph into their
original place in history....shiny as ever..and leader of the pack....

hot damn- - - - - 13 - - 100oz options and more on monday.....the pressure
wave continues to build......are you doing your part?

!;- - - creating- a- dissonance- with- the- sellers- of- the- noble- one- - - - -

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:40 - ID#284255)
Try these:

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:42 - ID#284255)
Comex 100oz contracts?
What date and strike are you targeting?

Lurker 777
(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:43 - ID#317247)
WARNING OFF SUBJECT. Gun enthusiasts only.
I do not know much about weapons but am concerned about America's war on guns and want to buy a rifle before all rights to bear arms are repealed. I am thinking about buying a AR- 15 Olympic Arms, Pre- ban Model K3B, collapsible stock, 11.5"/5.5" heavy barrel, A- 2 sights, bayo lug, flash hider, new in box for $1,200.00 Good or bad deal? I want 2000 rounds of .223 so what kind of ammo do I buy? Thank you for your response in advance and please no derogatory remarks.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:43 - ID#26793)
Dubai gold imports up 88% over 1996

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:46 - ID#30116)
If I'm not mistaken, the President is constitutionally obliged to make the State of The Union speech. The implications would be that B.C. would be out by Tuesday. If this were to happen, forget about trading the markets. B.C. is not the kind of guy to go out with out a fight. Scandal or no scandal. As for the markets, the dollar would take a huge hit in terms of confidence. All other paper will follow suite. 'Things' on the other hand should do well. The rest of the world is not as dumb as the average U.S. of A. mutual fund investor.

I have talked to 'new' market players recently. Their take is that as long as their stock is going up, who cares what the market as whole is doing. Classic newbie behavior, ignore the general market direction at your own peril, I tell them; And they do I keep on saying, "Place stop loss orders for day or GTC to protect your profits." They won't do it for fear of getting stopped out and 'missing the big move up'. Asia does not matter to them. B.C.'s travails does not matter to them. I wonder if losing their money will???

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:46 - ID#177109)
curly toes
colleen: fluconazole is quite effective for onychomycosis. just ask your doctor.;- )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:48 - ID#153102)
panda: Neither was I
The conditions change which gave a word its meaning, but there is no official or popular recognition of the fact. Investment. Buying. Selling. Markets. Tops. Cycles.

Federal Reserve Notes are credit.

Power to create unlimited credit. Credit created by speaking it into being like sorcery. New credit was once added to the liability side of the ledger. What is it that commands it must be so today or always ? They are just numbers. I am just doing my job.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:48 - ID#28585)
It's exactly as I told you...the Swiss will in no way, shape, or form sell off a single significant ounce of their gold. They are goldbugs until the day they die. If you doubt this, then I can refer you to various historical tomes specifically dealing with the Swiss.

Moreover, they always have been superior financial intermediaries....whether on behalf of Nazis, Latin American drug cartels, or Communists nations.

Based on the recent London Telegraph revelations, it seems categorically certain the Swiss are acting as intermediaries on behalf of the Germans to purchase gold reserves ( at much cheaper prices ) in advance of the EMU announcements concerning the exact nature of the EURO.

You can be certain the EURO will be a gold- backed currency ( I will hand you my penis if I am wrong ) ...the only variable is the amount ( 10% to 50% ) . There is simply no other conceivable way to create
faith in a currency that has been disparaged all over the world...well before its actual incarnation.

Naturally, such a development is of concern to the American government...a gold- backed Euro supported by the aggregate strength of Europe would be a force to reckon with... certainly much more of a force than the Mark or the Swiss Franc.

Analogously, Asia is beginning to consider ( and may soon propose ) an AMU or Asian Monetary Union. The net result would be a single Asian currency ( the ASIO maybe? ) ...again, it would be a gold- backed currency inspired by and based upon the European model. The major factors impelling Asia in such a direction is its desperate need to consolidate in order to shore up the faltering economies there. In much the same way that banks merge when one particularly weak bank needs a stronger bank to support it, then Asia is considering economic union now so that the weaknesses of certain economies can be corrected by the strengths of others.

This is not science is absolute fact. If you are an avid reader of economic think tank papers as I am ( since I hold an Economics degree ) , then you will realize the subject of new currency creation ( and the macro effects on other currencies ) has been widely debated over the past year.

BOTTOM LINE: Gold has been manipulated downward in the past few years in order to allow re- accumulation at much lower prices in advance of the new currency announcements.

NET EFFECT: Much stronger gold prices along with a significantly weaker American dollar. Naturally, a much weaker American dollar ( acting as the linchpin in the strength of American financial markets ) will result in simultaneous bond and equities collapse. The U.S.A. will be forced to hike interest rates to preclude foreign capital outflow, resulting in a classical stagflation, which in and of itself, will further weaken bond and equities markets...hence a vicious circle. Even as I type this post, notable American economists are desperately seeking a solution to the impending quandary... in much the same way that computer scientists are racking their brains to figure out a pandemic fix for the developing Y2K bug.

It is that simple.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:52 - ID#426220)
Gun enthusiasts only.)

FOR: Lurker 777 ( WARNING OFF SUBJECT. Gun enthusiasts only. )

I would appreciate it if you would give the names ( and location cities ) of 2- 3 of the largest distributors of GUNS in the US.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:53 - ID#411259)
..... State of Mind .....
Panda -

As I understand it, a report of the State of the Union in required, but the speech is a relatively new custom. Its all window dressing, the President can blow the whole speech off if he wants to. Poor choice of words, considering recent events.


Its 75 degrees and sunny outside. I will research you query. Just How is the surf today? Just how skimpy will the local bikinis be? These questions demand my attention, why am I indoors with this stupid keyboard?????


(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:55 - ID#177109)
If Himself is "indisposed" or if the President pro tempore of the Senate, the Honorable Senator Strom Thurmond, were to petition the Supreme Court, I daresay they will consent to a delay in the State of the Union ( s ) .

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:58 - ID#30116)
Lurker 777
For semi- auto weapons the preferred round is FMJ ( Full Metel Jacket ) . I reload and hunt small game ( occasionally ) , so I load thin jacketed hollow points or soft points. These blow up on impact. They are not suitable rounds for semi- auto weapons because the barrel twist rate is 1 in 9" or even 1 in 7.5". Hence these fragile 'varmit' bullets will come apart in flight due to the huge centrifigal forces exerted on them. The military pattern rifles use the faster twist to stabilize the longer and heavier weights ( 63 grain boat tails typically ) . To sum up, do not buy 'hunting ammo' for this catagory of weapon, it is best fed FMJs. That's my two cents for the ammo. Now you got me in trouble with Bart.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 16:59 - ID#411259)
..... The Good Ducument says .....

Art. II, sec. 3

He ( the Pesident ) shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient.....

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:01 - ID#33164)
aurophile ( curly toes ) - Thanks for that! ( :- ) ) - think I'll keep them!!

Mike Sheller- Look forward to your new articles & hot stories- always great reading! Just be careful about focusing only on the USA - soemthing may be happening elsewhere as well? The KINGDOM of Iraq has 7- 8:Pisces Asc? ...... conjunct eclipse point 26 Feb. ANOTHER may then have a point or two?!

- ALL-
Someone asked earlier about HOW the melt- down in Asia started- was it SOROS?
Why does Larouche bad- mouth Soros? Please, you Soros experts?! Let me know? Is he a goodie or a baddie?

Think about it- will come back tomorrow sometime and shall appreciate your help.

Night to you all- have a great week!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:02 - ID#318321)
I would forget the .223 and go for the .308. Armalite makes the AR- 10 which looks like a AR- 15 but shots the .308. I was at a gun show in Kansas City last week and bought 1000 rounds for $150.00. Ammo is getting cheap. As for Vronsky I would say that Dallas and Houston are very big gun markets. And at the risk of being accused of off topic discussion, just ask yourself if you were in a room with a complete stranger and there was gold in one corner and a gun in the opposite corner, which would you go for? Gold without a means to protect it is folly.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:03 - ID#234218)
Sharefin (re:URLs)

Thanks so much for the info. You are a scholar, a humanitarian, a beacon of light to the www. challenged, and just a down- right fine person. There aren't too many of us left either!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:05 - ID#26793)
"Some of the biggest funds are buying gold"

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:07 - ID#20137)

Date: Sun Jan 25 1998 15:30
JTF ( I've noticed too! ) ID#57232:

I know you are correct. I would rather vote for my gardener, barber, or any of my neighbors than the offerings that the two major parties put forth.

I just hope my countrymen and women wake up before we have a government that will completely become amoral.

But for now, the actions of Hillary will drag out this crisis and thus gold will continue it rise. Look for the dollar to continue its fall.

Looking east to see what is coming west.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:08 - ID#30116)
RJ, aurophile
So he could blow he whole speech off. Wow, now that would be a tradable event!

In the past, there were questions about his highness and medical records. Were these inferrences physical or mental? An important consideration since the media has decided to exert considerable 'pressure' here. Does anybody know how the ashtry situation is in the 'house'?

In all seriousness, if the White Staff starts to fall apart, the financial markets will not be far behind. A.G. is old and R.R. has a net worth in excess of $100 million. Why should they hang around for this mud slinging event?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:09 - ID#227238)
After you've eaten steak for awhile, beans, beans they taste fine.
Mike Sheller: Cam on ong. Got it. ...... I'm not sure I share your enthusiasm for Vietnamese fish sauce though. It is, as they say, an aquired taste. If you can't find the authentic stuff there let me know and I'll send you some. Something that isn't bottled in Racine or Chicago.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:10 - ID#344308)

share- fin- - -

my 'tickets' to the super- bowl- - - - - - - gold calls- -
the gold options are bought as they become available
and the current ones expire....the strikes range
from 400 to 340.....october400 calls were $30. last
week....these will fit quite nicely with the others...
not a portfolio mind you, just my contribution to the
fiat currencies and their taskmasters......1300 oz currently....
more on high can it go? 2000oz is my goal..
this month...time to up the is only paper......
and the flame- thrower loves paper......

feel like hanging on the to 350+...this week..
450+ before the end of feb......

chryssalis of gold.......from ankle- biter to star- rider.....and the
smoke- signal- mobile will ride shot- gun........ALLABOARD!

!;- - - share- fin- - - - your- seat- on- the- ssm- awaits- - - next- to- donald_a's....

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:15 - ID#227238)
Sheller 'n Aurophile: " ...... if it were gin you'd be wrong to say yes. For the eeevil gin does would be hard to assess. And besides, it is inclined to affect the prowess ....... Have some Madeira, M'dear?". ..... Courtesy of the Limelighters from long ago and far away.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:17 - ID#30116)
@Waiting for the opening bell... 'The' game later...
Weather forecast for the markets;
- 2 F and 95+ MPH winds.... Baby, that's cooold!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:19 - ID#329157)
vronsky: does not exist, but
might be worth looking at.
Guns and gold- there has got to be a connection.
In the Californian gold rush of the 19th century, when the miner came in to the Wells Fargo stage- coach office to sell gold, there was always a pistol close to the scales in case of need. I have a book with a photograph of said situation. I suspect the sales of gold and guns will show a correlation if equity and commodity markets are indeed at a turning point.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:24 - ID#177109)
The reason why the medical records were never released ( first time since Eisenhower ) is said to be due to nasal findings consistent with cocaine use. He said he never inhaled and cannot tell a lie- - from the truth.

Mike Sheller
(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:26 - ID#347447)
Lurker 777
I've strayed as far as recipes and dog jokes this weekend, might as well toss in my dos centavos on weapons. Sounds like the AR- 15 is very nice. As for the price, a good weapon is not cheap. Comments about the .308 are also interesting. I tend to favor the .308, and the M14 was ( is ) a marvelous weapon. Just very heavy and a tad long, though you can find shortened "tanker" versions that are adorable. But then you're losing that superior long- range accuracy. Military snipers use this weapon still. But I suppose for your purposes the AR will be fine. I remember our camp at the Cambodian border in 67 when they issued 2 M16's for testing to switch the unit over from 14's. Me & the supply sarge went out to the perimeter to fire em off. Both weapons jammed after a few rounds. In those days we were getting reports from the north by the grapevine of Marines dead in their holes with these guns jammed open. Didn't know then it was the powder in the ammo, but who cared. We rejected the rifles and our unit stayed with the 14's til' I rotated home. Prejudiced ever since, even tho I know the 16 is a great weapon now. I'll just never forget how the hairs on the back of my neck wiggled when that gun jammed in my hands. I guess you just want something in the house to take everyone with you when they come in the door after your Krands and Maple Leafs. Can't say as I blame you, seeing as Caesar's picture ain't on any of these bullion issues. My only advice is go to a shooting range and get someone to give you a good safety course, and then get to know your baby real well. Most gun owners shoot theirselves somewhere, sometime, if they're not very very careful. And, of course ( all together now Kitcoites ) NEVER POINT A GUN AT ANYONE UNLESS YOU'RE ABOUT TO SHOOT THEM. And then don't wait around too long. And be prepared to go into shock. For the rest of your life. Ugly shame we even have to be considering all this, eh?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:28 - ID#284255)
Gold the sentiment of dreams.
Oct400's now $60 and going higher.
I already have some Aprils and wish to add.

Like you I see a huge potential as paper burns.
If we get our crash,
The rush to physical,
Could well be awesome.

The potential for a major crash is high.
It will far outway what we have seen before.
Making 87 seem like a pebble on a mountain.
All we need is for Rubin to desert the ship.
The taskmaster for the PPT.

Quixotic 1
(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:30 - ID#176235)
Lurker 777, I would buy a Colt myself.

Lurker 777
I think that $1200 is too much to pay for a non- colt AR15. I would recommend you check a publication called Gun List ( Most news stands ) . This classified forum seems to typify the retail gun market. For the best deal, I would go to a gun show, and look for someone looking to sell their COLT AR15. Because of the 1994 Gun Ban, anyone who ever thought about owning an assault weapon, now owns 5 of them. Most of the dealers at these gun shows are in the same "look- up to the scum on your boots" category as Camdesses and Clinton. They want to at least double their money on guns they buy. If you make a reasonable offer, you would both benefit. Please be sure to check and comply with your local laws. The ATF and FBI are at "ALL" the gun shows for recon and stings.
Please be sure to pick up plenty of spare parts. That gives the Colt firearm an advantage. Always by quality, and spares. In that light, let me recommend HK firearms as being the finest quality. However, it really depends on your projected use and needs. If you are interested, email me at Happy huntingGMJ

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:31 - ID#28585)
Whenever bull investors run into trouble, today's governments ALWAYS resort to turning on the money printing presses. NET RESULT: INFLATION...NEVER DEFLATION!!


The news article below tells it all:

January 25, 1998
New York Times

Hong Kong To Compensate Brokerage


Filed at 3:14 p.m. EST

By The Associated Press

HONG KONG ( AP ) - - Hong Kong says it will compensate investors of a bankrupt brokerage in an apparent move to quell jittery financial markets and protests by those who have lost their money.

Rafael Hui, secretary for financial services, told reporters the government would increase a compensation fund after C.A. Pacific Securities Ltd., and its sister unit, C.A. Pacific Finance, collapsed last week.

Also attending the press conference Sunday were the chairmen of the Hong Stock Exchange and the Securities and Futures Commission.

The government isn't sure whether the bankrupt companies belonging to the C.A. Pacific Group Ltd. have any remaining liquid assets or how much investors are owed.

Hui said at a press conference that the current 480 million Hong Kong dollars ( U.S. $62 million ) compensation fund will be increased to 780 million Hong Kong dollars ( $100 million ) .

The fund was established in 1985 to protect investors and creditors. So far 6,000 investors have filed claims to recover money from the C.A. Pacific units.

The fund compensates investors for claims of up to Hong Kong 8 million Hong Kong dollars ( $1.02 million ) against each registered broker, but Hui said the government would raise the current maximum compensation limit.

Hui said if the increased amount was not enough to meet all investor claims, the stock exchange and market regulator would each contribute a further 150 million Hong Kong dollars ( $19 million ) .

He said the government was getting involved because of the large number of investors in C.A. Pacific, which is believed to have between 9,000 and 11,000 clients.

Hundreds of investors have staged protests in Hong Kong in the last several days to demand their money back.

The collapse of the brokerage followed the liquidation of Peregrine, a major Asian investment bank, that rocked the Hong Kong stock market.

Peregrine blamed its collapse on the plunge in Asian currencies and markets that began last summer.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:31 - ID#227238)
Panda: Thanks for the off topic on FMJ. I didn't know that. I lost all my 223 FMJ in the '96 flood and have only a couple boxes of field loads. Unused. If you have other thoughts please email them to me.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:34 - ID#153102)
Guns & Gold
The conditions change which gave a word its meaning, but there is no official or popular recognition of the fact. Investment. Buying. Selling. Markets. Tops. Cycles.

Federal Reserve Notes are credit.

Power to create unlimited credit. Credit created by speaking it into being like sorcery. New credit was once added to the liability side of the ledger. What is it that commands it must be so today or always ? They are just numbers. I am just doing my job.

Article1 Section 10 "No State shall ... make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debt"

Second Amendment: "right to keep and bear arms" Secured here from federal infringement. Previously secured in State Constitutions.

The two great powers of government: the purse and the sword

Can a thing stand balanced on one leg that was made to stand on two ?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:35 - ID#286234)
Mike Sheller
Can't wait to try Grilled Pork Chops. Why do you warn us off of grinding fresh spices? Too much work or not likely to get it just right?

Off to pour a low wall concrete footing to extend vegetable garden. No, I'm not going to drop a pvc time capsule down there.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:37 - ID#227238)
@shivers up'n down my spine..... ooooh that witchcraft.
Cherokee: "gold..going to 350+...this week.. 450+ before the end of feb....." ....... Cherokee, you just excite the hell out of me when you talk like that. ....... but try to put the big move out another month. I need the time to complete the sale of some property and I don't want to be chasing the market after that.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:37 - ID#177109)
right on! here is a chart for all the neo- deflationists to ponder....

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:38 - ID#177109)
oh the bloody kitco break

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:39 - ID#238422)
FN FAL or HK in 308 are good guns.

I personally prefer AK- 47 ( 7.62x39 )
for the reason of extreme reliability
and simplicity. You can shoot it and
you can hammer nails with it, and
you can shoot it again. This would
be my weapon if Ziva's WW3 starts.. ( smile )

M- 16/AR15 are good guns, but kind of
fragile, in my opinion.

I put good peep sight on my AK and can
hit beer can at 100 yards 4 times out of 5.

Get "Shotgun News" - the best source of
guns and ammo in the U.S. Watch barrel
length - legal rifle barrel should be
at least 16" long - check your state laws.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:39 - ID#177109)
prices straight up
since the democrap master roosevelt came to town.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:44 - ID#258129)
Gold price
People, lets get serious: nothing happened to the gold price. Think not in terms "1 oz = so much $" but "one $ is so much oz, one DM is so much oz, one SFr is so much oz, etc." Then you will see a very a simple thing - $ has dropped, and Gold value is up - in $ - but not in other currencies. In other currencies it is the same. Check it out yourself. There is no gold rally. There is dollar going down. Probably, it will continue to do so because of current political situation. We shall have a real gold rally only when, after long bear, gold will recover confidence. We are far enough from this point - helaas...pity...

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:50 - ID#177109)
Since gold is an alternative currency, naturally it goes up when other currencies go down. The exchange rates change. That's the whole point isn't it?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:52 - ID#42371)
Forecasts on tomorrow's dow, and gold / silver closes...

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:52 - ID#227238)
Aurophile: The correlation is to both Herr Roosevelt and the advent of the federal reserve system. .... and the consequent loss of real money. IMO.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:53 - ID#177109)
gold in DM per troy oz.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:55 - ID#177109)
the kitco hyphen problem. go to cap'n bill's site and see how gold is up in nearly every currency, or, all other currencies are down and gold is steady.

Richard Burke
(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:55 - ID#411318)
Which is the best dollar index to follow?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:57 - ID#177109)
yep. and all the rest of the early 20th century government grabs.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:57 - ID#288399)
PPT/Friday's equities
Looks like the PPT got in there on Friday after, about 25 minutes before closing. Do you think there will be a PPT follow- through on Monday a.m. futures trading?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:57 - ID#28585)
All Bre- X and Pegasus investors should immediately file claims with the American government and relevant stock exchanges DEMANDING TOTAL REPAYMENT OF LOST FUNDS.

After all, when the bull market collapses shortly, that's exactly what the bulls will demand the government do ( and they will probably succeed ) .

January 25, 1998
New York Times

Hong Kong To Compensate Brokerage


Filed at 3:14 p.m. EST

By The Associated Press

HONG KONG ( AP ) - - Hong Kong says it will compensate investors of a bankrupt brokerage in an apparent move to quell jittery financial markets and protests by those who have lost their money.

Rafael Hui, secretary for financial services, told reporters the government would increase a compensation fund after C.A. Pacific Securities Ltd., and its sister unit, C.A. Pacific Finance, collapsed last week.

Also attending the press conference Sunday were the chairmen of the Hong Stock Exchange and the Securities and Futures Commission.

The government isn't sure whether the bankrupt companies belonging to the C.A. Pacific Group Ltd. have any remaining liquid assets or how much investors are owed.

Hui said at a press conference that the current 480 million Hong Kong dollars ( U.S. $62 million ) compensation fund will be increased to 780 million Hong Kong dollars ( $100 million ) .

The fund was established in 1985 to protect investors and creditors. So far 6,000 investors have filed claims to recover money from the C.A. Pacific units.

The fund compensates investors for claims of up to Hong Kong 8 million Hong Kong dollars ( $1.02 million ) against each registered broker, but Hui said the government would raise the current maximum compensation limit.

Hui said if the increased amount was not enough to meet all investor claims, the stock exchange and market regulator would each contribute a further 150 million Hong Kong dollars ( $19 million ) .

He said the government was getting involved because of the large number of investors in C.A. Pacific, which is believed to have between 9,000 and 11,000 clients.

Hundreds of investors have staged protests in Hong Kong in the last several days to demand their money back.

The collapse of the brokerage followed the liquidation of Peregrine, a major Asian investment bank, that rocked the Hong Kong stock market.

Peregrine blamed its collapse on the plunge in Asian currencies and markets that began last summer.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:58 - ID#31868)
I say these things which follow with the utmost respect to you and your family.

Some things are bullshit plain and simple.

Heimdal spoke to the human guard standing next to him, they must be allowed to think and speak freely. Each of us has his or her place, what they are talking about in there is when loneliness has a friend, an American.

Sheesh. Here, have some coffee, you look tired. "What's an American?"

Mozel is inside vociferously defending your ability to be the one whom I just handed the coffee to.

Hmmmm, so what you are saying is that when I cannot think for myself, mozel is defending my right to think for myself? Exactly you fathead.

Is he a fair minded fellow? Yes, spill one more drop you, you seem angered, nah, so you understand why we are here standing guard?

Coffee ain't bad.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 17:59 - ID#348129)
@OK IM IN......
vertigo: Gold 308 ..... Silver 6.09 .... Dow - 95 ...... Bubba hangin on by the skin of his teeth.....

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:01 - ID#244360)
Has anyone heard of, or give credence to, the theories of Richard Mayberry? His general contention is that northern Africa, the middle east and all of former USSR ( to which area he has given the name Chaostan: land of the great chaos ) are about erupt into a gigantic warzone, with mafia- type warlords fighting in the north and the slavs and muslims more to the south. As for the middle east, they will probably unite against the US under coercive/forceful leadership of the Irani and Iraqi regimes. If his theories are correct, then any investment in companies heavily involved in these areas would be a real big time loser. On the other hand, if he is wrong, then companies like Kazakhstan Minerals ( KMC.U/TSE ) represent tremendous value right now. Any opinions or other pertinent information?
The subject box URL will take you more details of the man's predictions.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:04 - ID#28594)
A. Goose--A Central Bank THAT PROFITS FROM "CHEAP" GOLD!!!!!!!
I am dumb with admiration...we all wondered about Anothers words....
and here is the answer...Brilliant Strategy...ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!

Chinese law specifies that all Chinese gold mines, including foreign invested joint ventures, must sell all of their production to the Chinese central bank, the People's Bank of China ( PBOC ) at 90 per cent of international market price... aug- 97.html

JTF@.German.Minister.Calls.4.Emergency.G7 My friend, the same minister, quoted in the same paper 16 or 17 days ago, was pooh- poohing any problems!
What THIS tells us is that 1 ) modern communications have done nothing much to increasing the dissemination of bad news by bureaucrats to their bosses and 2 ) the first, fragile tendrils of fear are beginning to twine around the bureaucrats and politicians ( to say nothing of the bankers and money people, who have been sleeping badly for quite a time! ) IMHO {:- )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:06 - ID#28594)
A. Goose--A Central Bank THAT PROFITS FROM "CHEAP" GOLD!!!!!!!
I am dumb with admiration...we all wondered about Anothers words....
and here is the answer...Brilliant Strategy...ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!

Chinese law specifies that all Chinese gold mines, including foreign invested joint ventures, must sell all of their production to the Chinese central bank, the People's Bank of China ( PBOC ) at 90 per cent of international market price... aug- 97.html

JTF@.German.Minister.Calls.4.Emergency.G7 My friend, the same minister, quoted in the same paper 16 or 17 days ago, was pooh- poohing any problems!
What THIS tells us is that 1 ) modern communications have done nothing much to increase the speed at which bureaucrats disseminate bad news to their bosses and 2 ) the first, fragile tendrils of fear are beginning to twine around the bureaucrats and politicians ( to say nothing of the bankers and money people, who have been sleeping badly for quite a time! ) IMHO {:- )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:21 - ID#28594)
China produced 150 tons of gold in 1995, making it the world's sixth largest gold producer. The gold mining industry, one of the most sensitive in China, has been opened to limited foreign investment since 1994. In late 1995, Asia Minerals Corp. of Vancouver, an affiliate of Royal Oak Mines Inc., signed China's first gold- mining foreign joint venture with Shandong Zhaoyuan Gold Industrial Group, China's largest gold producer. Although the foreign investment approval process has been slow, other international mining companies have since followed.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:23 - ID#28594)
Metals in the News, New York Mercantile Exchange - Summer 1997
China shows excellent long- term potential for growth in gold demand. Mainland Chinese have bought more than 200 metric tons of gold every year for the past five years.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:26 - ID#28585)
For the last several years, we have listened to the Wall Street New Paradigm crowd announce cheerfully to the world that "GOLD IS JUST ANOTHER COMMODITY!" In doing so, they never gave a damn about the financial consequences to people who held large investments in gold. If gold investors suffered 70- 90% losses on their gold portfolios...oh, well, too F__ing bad for them!

Soon, there will be a bond and equities collapse in America. Mutual fund investors will be extremely upset and demand the government and securities industry step in and compensate them for losses.


Why is there downside protection for one segment of the investing public and not the other?? Why are the harmed gold investors not compensated for their significant losses?

The government should proffer one single response to bull investors crying for their lost funds:


(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:28 - ID#401349)
Kitco Sweeps
Dow - 40, Gold 301, Silver 5.98 PPT on alert.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:29 - ID#359316)
Crazy, but spooky-
"Shortly after the shortage of the two metals [gold and silver] which will occur between April and March, how expensive life will become! But two heads of state of noble birth will bring help by land and sea."


"Images of gold and silver inflated, after the theft of prosperity, will be thrown into the fire in anger; exhausted and disturbed by the public debt paper and coin will be pulped."


"Power will be despised because of the currency devaluation and the people will rebel against the head of state. Peace will be proclaimed; through a new fact, sacred laws corrupted. Never was Paris in such dire disarray."


"The importance ( ascendancy? ) of credit ( fiat money? ) and the abundance ( CB oversupply? ) of gold and silver will blind men greedy for honour. The offence of deception will be known by him who attains his own great dishonour ( You Know Who! ) "


"They will complain of lost wealth and weep over choosing [politicians] who will make mistakes from time to time. Very few men will want to follow them, deceived as they will be by their speeches."


"The heads of states and governments will fabricate imitations of gold [excess of paper money]; prophets will make forecasts devoid of sense [speeches of politicians and economists]. The horn of plenty [consumer society] will fall victim to them and violence will follow peace. The prophecies will be fulfilled."


It's as true now as it was in 1555- or is it?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:30 - ID#255151)

Favre- - TD pass. 7- 0 Packers

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:31 - ID#348129)
Excellent site for all news links and some strong comentaries:

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:31 - ID#258129)
Gold price in Dutch guilders
One DM is about 1,12 NLG - relation is stable for more then 30 years, +/- one cent. Here is this year gold price in NLG
Date US$/NLG Gold $ Gold NLG
02.01.98 2,03 287,75 584,13
09.01.98 2,05 278,25 570,41
16.01.98 2,06 290,80 599,05
23.01.98 2,00 300,05 600,10
As you can see, not much changed last Friday

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:33 - ID#286234)
Lurker 777
If you ask this question then I think you will need practice once you have a weapon. Are you close to an outdoor shooting range? You won't be able to shoot .223 or .308 indoors. Consider a handgun as first purchase. These days at many indoor ranges, I think you can rent many different handguns at one session to try them out. That's what I did. I bought the one that did not jam up and felt the best and I could shoot the best. Not the one I thought I wanted. My pistol is within reach of my bed in a pistol safe. It takes maybe 1/2 second to open it. Think you will open your long gun safe with finicky combo in the dark to grab a rifle just to check out things that go bump in the night? Which ever you choose pistol, revolver or rifle buy a box each of many different ammos and see what shoots best before you buy cases. Different ammos may jam different semi- auto actions. Also in a rifle some ammo will be more accurate than others. If you want a semi auto rifle try a Ruger ( these days Ranch Rifle? ) before deciding, if you want a handgun consider having tritium sights installed.

Good luck.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:36 - ID#284255)
Who bought our real assets
Do you think China likes OZ gold?
Did they buy through Korea?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:39 - ID#31868)
Another: yes you, I single you out because you have chosen to be a tongue.

Once again you and yours have forgotten what we from the hills desired not to once again bring to the world. So be it that which is your unwillingness to allow others to coexist in peace. You think like those whom you discuss.

Once again you and yours will suffer the wrath, and when this is done, it will be done for longer than the dreams of your children.

Once again you and yours have played games, this is not a game.

We can not be vanquished.

I have no pity.

There will be no further warnings or discussions.

This then is the year when the modality of Chinese thought is received and put in its place and we destroy the final mason and others who drivel in secrecy.

You feed greed, my horse has no mouth.


(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:43 - ID#411259)
..... Super What? .....

Don't like football, played as a kid, but my dad made me Will not be watching Super Bowl. But I do like to bet. Could someone post quarterly scores?

Again Kitco helps me track my investments..Thanks.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:44 - ID#255151)
Super Bowl

TD Broncos! 7- 7. Elway looking GOOD!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:54 - ID#28594)
Sharefin, No my friend, they brought directly from the source
That was hedgehog's guess- - South Korea- - close but no cigar...

Zhu Rongji flew into OZ in May- - very quite, no press ( one story that Avalon dug up for me ) and bought 2/3 of OZ's gold! For cash ( well, probably those good old US T- Bonds, which are BETTER than cash don't ya know- - and which Zhu Rongji felt were accumlating in too fecund a fashion
in his treasury!


Oil reserves are large and widely dispersed. In general, development is
concentrated on deposits readily accessible from major industrial and
population centers ( see fig. __, Fuels, Power, Minerals, and Metals, 1983 ) .
Deposits in remote areas such as the Tarim, Junggar, and Qaidam basins,
remain largely unexplored. The quality of oil from the major deposits varies considerably. A few deposits, like the Shengli field, produce low- quality oil suitable mainly as fuel. Most of the oil produced in China from the big fields in the north and northeast is heavy, low in sulphur,
Remember, this is an old US Army ( circa 1985 ) handbook...

Secretara de Relaciones Exteriores
Direccin General de Anlisis Econmico

Translated- - to state the obvious )
When extracting 3,062 mbd of total hydrocarbons in 1995, including 2,618
mbd of crude petroleum in 1995, PEMEX was placed again like the fourth
world- wide company in production, after the state companies of Saudi
Arabia, Iran and China, and contributed around 5% of the total supply of
petroleum in the world. ( 6 and 7 See Graphical ) .

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:54 - ID#20137)
Date: Sun Jan 25 1998 18:06
SDRer__A ( A. Goose- - A Central Bank THAT PROFITS FROM "CHEAP" GOLD!!!!!!! )

You've done it again SDRer. Great work.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:57 - ID#153102)
What is the bullshit plain and simple ?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 18:58 - ID#28594)
Sharefin, No my friend, they brought directly from the source
That was hedgehog's guess- - South Korea- - close but no cigar...

Zhu Rongji flew into OZ in May- - very quiet, no press ( one story that Avalon dug up for me ) and bought 2/3 of OZ's gold! For cash ( well, probably those good old US T- Bonds, which are BETTER than cash don't ya know- - and which Zhu Rongji felt were accumlating in too fecund a fashion
in his treasury!


Oil reserves are large and widely dispersed. In general, development is
concentrated on deposits readily accessible from major industrial and
population centers ( see fig. __, Fuels, Power, Minerals, and Metals, 1983 ) .
Deposits in remote areas such as the Tarim, Junggar, and Qaidam basins,
remain largely unexplored. The quality of oil from the major deposits varies considerably. A few deposits, like the Shengli field, produce low- quality oil suitable mainly as fuel. Most of the oil produced in China from the big fields in the north and northeast is heavy, low in sulphur,
Remember, this is an old US Army ( circa 1985 ) handbook...

Secretara de Relaciones Exteriores
Direccin General de Anlisis Econmico
Translated- - to state the obvious )
When extracting 3,062 mbd of total hydrocarbons in 1995, including 2,618
mbd of crude petroleum in 1995, PEMEX was placed again like the fourth
world- wide company in production, after the state companies of Saudi
Arabia, Iran and China, and contributed around 5% of the total supply of
petroleum in the world. ( 6 and 7 See Graphical ) .

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:00 - ID#329157)
Latest from Yahoo/Reuters
Clinton scandal may hurt Dow

Wall St faces more losses as Clinton woes deepen

All positive for gold IMHO. Investors should review old- fashioned advice about having a proportion of investments in precious metal as insurance.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:00 - ID#255151)
Super Elway Rushes for TD

Broncos 14 Packers 7

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:05 - ID#28594)
Now my friends, knowing what you now know, read this again....
"There is one oil state that no one will play for a fool. The CBs will sell all of their gold or the nations will nationalize all mines and operate them at a loss. One way or another, most of the paper gold market will be honored. Why?
Because oil will bid for gold if they do not! We are not talking about an oil embargo or rising oil prices. Indeed, oil will become very cheap for those that can supply physical gold. This deal will not require the agreement of all oil states. Only one can start this, the others will gladly follow."

TheThe West' greed and avarice are about to be met with a new fortress built of gold.
A large oil producer, with plenty of reserves and unused capacity, can say:
We now value gold at $10, $20 or $30,000/oz.. That is the rate we will use to
sell oil. We will go to full production and offer at $10.00us/bl.. Pay us in
physical gold and USD ( or EUROs ) as a 50% mix to the above rate to equal

Pacific Northwest Dave
(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:05 - ID#223187)
Winston-"Early Warning!"
Yes, I follow Richard Mayberry and completely agree with what he has to say. I think that it is extremely risky to have any investment that is tied in with S. Africa or any of Chaostan. These socialist countries could sieze any industries in their countries if necessary, or these countries could have mass rebellion and strikes that would cripple any mining companies.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:06 - ID#255151)
Super D

Favre sacked, Denver recovers fumble.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:09 - ID#42371)
Kitco Sweeps
IMHO- Dow - 40- 50 after falling further early, Gold 298, silver 5.80 range. Gold doesn't have to stay above 300, holding on to most of it's 9.50 gain from friday would be bullish.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:09 - ID#255151)
51 Yard Field Goal

Broncos 17 Packers 7

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:16 - ID#339274)
Could be an impressive day for gold.Foreign currencies
are almost 1 % up vis a vis the dollar.Short covering will
start in earnest with the Clinton factor.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:16 - ID#30116)
Re EBN err cnbc
Check out the price at

Gold up $495+ :- ) ) I can only hope! :- ) )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:17 - ID#20167)
Anyone know where the currently
quoted gold price is being traded?
Sure is strange, down 9.5, then down
1.20 is it being manipulated?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:18 - ID#333131)
@dollar watch
$ down hard against all major currencies. SDRer, do you know what China's arangements are with other natural resource production?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:20 - ID#258129)
panda, 19:16
Just checked, it's a good one

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:21 - ID#28594)
And the TRUTH about a "mis/disinformation" story...just stumbled across this...

ORANGE COUNTY, South America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Argentina exercises PUTS

Argentinas central bank explained that since the fixed link to the dollar was established ( with full US dollar backing for the local currency ) the gold holding constituted a "speculative" position ( as the gold price fluctuated against the dollar ) . It therefore established a policy of upgrading the quality of its gold and then depositing it with top grade institutions to earn interest. When gold reached the attractive price of $380 an ounce in 1994, the central bank protected the price by buying put options. When the time came to exercise these put options, between January and July 1997, the price of gold had dropped substantially and the central bank opted to sell the gold.
Nevertheless, against the possibility of an eventual price increase, options were purchased to buy at $380.

So they learned nothing at all. {:- (

I will be patient this time. I will not press stop and start again. And end up with a double post- - - for which I heartily apologize!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:23 - ID#258129)
+1.55% ???

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:26 - ID#368244)

IS this a mistake

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:26 - ID#28594)
Carl, They've just about GOT IT ALL!
The ONE Natural Resource in which they were supposedly deficient was..
take a guess...GOLD!!!!

Source key :AR
Program key :AR ARMAN
Update sched. :Occasionally
Data type :TEXT
End year :1994
Date of record:04/19/1994
Keywords 3 :
| China
Raw Materials
China is well endowed with most of the important industrial
ores, fuels, and other minerals. Only a few raw materials are not
present in deposits large enough for domestic needs. Supplies of
iron and coking coal, although of poor quality, are adequate. By
the early to mid- 1980s, China was a significant exporter of rare
metals necessary for the aerospace and electronics industries.
Nonetheless, China imported materials such as steel, pig iron,
copper, and aluminum because of a large domestic demand and an
inadequate transportation infrastructure- - ( see Iron Ore; Other
Minerals, this ch. ) .

Although China was the fourth- largest world producer of fuel in
1985, energy shortages remained a major obstacle to industrial
growth. Energy waste was considerable; to offset this, some
energy prices increased and penalties for waste went into force.

Coal was the primary energy source, accounting in 1985 for more
than 70 percent of total fuel consumption. Proven reserves were
more than 700 billion tons, and estimated reserves were 3,000
seventh- largest electric power generating capacity, but output
still fell far short of demand. Total natural gas output for 1985
was 12.7 billion cubic meters, with 15 billion cubic meters the
target by 1990. Natural gas and oil received equal weight in the
Seventh Five- Year Plan ( see Electric and Nuclear Power, this
ch. ) .

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:28 - ID#382205)
dollar up
Rupiah down 13.73% 7& new_tkc= USD& usr_tkc= USD& d_list= 2

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:31 - ID#28594)
Carl, I meant to mention that the Handbook is old,
but it is a good starting point. When actual exploration started
as China opened up to the world, she was found to be rich in almost everything. She imported 60% of her oil in the 60 or 70s, and now is
fourth largest producer. She has pretty much kept to that level of
excellence with all endeavors. A remarkable record.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:32 - ID#368244)
London Gold @ 793.00

SOmeone Tell me this is real please!!!!!!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:33 - ID#392328)

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:34 - ID#30116)
No, it isn't real. That site is given to errors... Such things we have to put up with as gold bugs. At least I think it's a mistake.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:35 - ID#23398)

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:35 - ID#392328)

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:37 - ID#348286)
Kitco showing Gold 302.25 +2.20 ..... nice start, lets hope it continues.............

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:38 - ID#392328)

GOLD UP $2.20 TO $302.20

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:41 - ID#348286)
@Cruel Joke - HAHAHAHA: Wouldn't this make the shorts S**t
CNBC GOLD: Gold Spot 793.87 UP495.05 165.67%

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:42 - ID#255151)
2nd Quarter Reports

The Pack comes back Denver- 17, GB- 14

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:44 - ID#348286)
You wonder, if we actually had such a move in Gold, many Gold stocks would be up over 1000% overnight due to the high leverage on the POG.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:44 - ID#368244)
Heart attack
London stillshowing gold +500, its pretty to look at even if it is not real

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:45 - ID#287312)
Mike Sheller / Question
Mike or anyone else, can you tell me who the primary borrowers of gold are ? There's a point in time to short these guys.

Crystal Ball
(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:45 - ID#287367)
Stupor Bowl
Don't follow sports, but hope Denver wins so the stock market bulls REALLY panic tomorrow! Anybody know what's doing with Stupor Bowl?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:47 - ID#26669)
How weird. Gold up over $302US. I thought everybody in the world was watching Denver tromp the Packers. Score 17 to 14 as I write this. How come one Kitco quote site works and one doesn't???

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:48 - ID#348286)
@Kitco Graph
Nice spike on the Graph:

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:55 - ID#28594)
Panda! Your url sight is showing gold at
$79x I was too shocked to remember anything other than "change 495!
What ?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:57 - ID#206358)
MORE about this effected the price....!After the featival...!OH,NO!
More gold ,

Read this in the morning,URGENT,HUH?

Report: U.S. Plans Military Strike on Iraq

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - A countdown to a U.S. military strike against Iraq could begin as
soon as Ramadan, the Muslim holy month of fasting ends Friday, The New York Times reported
Sunday, quoting White House officials.

"There'll be one final round of diplomacy, and then an ultimatum, and then we act," a National
Security Council official told the newspaper.

President Clinton and his top foreign policy advisors at a meeting Saturday affirmed a tough stance
against Iraq's latest intransigence amid growing speculation about the possibility of a military strike.

Clinton met Vice President Al Gore and other top foreign policy advisors to review the situation in
Iraq and discuss "possible next steps," a White House official said.

The New York Times said a consensus had emerged in the meeting that Iraq would never comply
with the United Nations inspectors and that smart bombs and cruise missiles may be needed to
destroy President Saddam Hussein's hidden potential to build crude weapons of mass destruction.

But with Clinton involved in a sex scandal and his presidency under a cloud, the newspaper said
administration officials were painfully aware that they might be accused of using an attack on Iraq as
a diversion to sustain political and popular support for the embattled president.

The Times said Washington planned to devote next week to convincing skeptical U.S. allies and
members of Congress that military action is the only way to stop Iraq from building a biological and
chemical arsenal.

Commenting on the prospect of military action, the Times quoted a senior administration official as
saying: "We're focused more on weeks than months or days."

Clinton foreign policy advisors met twice about Iraq at the White House Saturday, the first time
without the president and the second time with him.

They reviewed a report to the U.N. Security Council Friday from the chief U.N. arms inspector,
Richard Butler. He said Iraq seemed determined to withhold any new information about its weapons
programs and to prevent U.N. inspectors from obtaining it themselves if that meant entering certain

The Washington Post, quoting highly placed U.S. officials, reported Saturday that a consensus
among senior Clinton advisors emerged during hours of intensive White House meetings in recent
days that military action will be necessary to force Iraq's compliance with U.N. resolutions.

Already many of these discussions were focusing on what actions would follow in the aftermath of a
heavy air bombardment campaign led by the United States with assistance from Britain, according
to the report.

Under one scenario being considered by the administration, an air campaign lasting several days
would be followed by an expansion of the "no- fly" zones over Iraq to cover the entire country, the
Post said.

Asked about the report, a U.S. official said: "No decisions have been made. The president's
advisors have not recommended any action. The president has not approved any action, so it's
premature to jump to speculative conclusions."

But the official admitted the United States and its allies were "losing patience" with Iraq.

In another development, Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott asked Sunday whether President
Clinton could make "the right call" on Iraq and other trouble spots while under siege on sex charges.

"Is he in any condition to make the right call?" Lott, a Mississippi Republican, asked on the ABC
program "This Week."

Lott credited Clinton with important accomplishments in the past despite having been under duress.

"But you know it's got to be a problem," he said, referring to the sex and perjury allegations that
have thrown the White House into crisis.

Citing Iraq, Iran, Bosnia and the Middle East, Lott added: "We have real big problems right on the
edge of ... getting worse if we don't do something quickly."

He declined to discuss whether Clinton should resign or be impeached over suggestions that he
asked a former White House intern, who was 21 at the time, to lie under oath about whether they
had an affair.

Lott said he had spoken to White House Chief of Staff Erskine Bowels about Iraq and to urge that
Clinton's State of the Union message on Tuesday go ahead as scheduled.

"I said that I hoped that the president would take the necessary action in Iraq no matter what other
distractions might be going on," he said.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 19:57 - ID#333131)
Remarkable indeed. How does India compare?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:00 - ID#26669)
Mike Sheller's 12:36 post re speculation
In ancient Japan under the Shogunates it was customary for Samuri to practice until their swordsmanship was as good as possible. Then, rather than overtraining the best ones would take up poetry or flower arranging while meditating on all that they'd learned to allow their swordplay skills to become intuitive.

I wonder if the same principle is present with such things as Cherokee's poetry or the entire idea of astrological investing...

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:01 - ID#426220)


Tokyo Gold Futures are UP Yen25 per gram. To watch tonight's gold action, go to the Internet location above. Once there, CLICK the "Tokyo Gold" button.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:02 - ID#200168)
Relax folks it is at 301.12 now up 2.30.
We will get there but not quite this fast.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:06 - ID#30116)
The problem has been fixed. Ah well, I thought I was 'rich' there for a while. :- ) )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:17 - ID#284255)
The guessing game?
I have believed that a major fall has been coming for a while.
There has been evidence that the "Powers who be"
Have been propping the markets up for a while now.
A political ploy to propel the current credit expansion.

The markets have a natural inclination to correct.
In all charts one observes the ebb and flow.
All charts must correct from time to time.
It is a normal healthy progression.
That is why waves are a natural event in charts.

Recently it has been observed that the markets,
Are not running on fundamentals.
The price should pre- factor in fundamentals.
Rather they now running on sentiment.

There was every possibility that we could,
Have had the final blow- off,
The topping of the bull run.
The final orgasmic thrust of euphoria.

But it seems that Bill bet us to the job.
Sentiment, all important at this stage,
Has been reversed sharply.

It has been in the wind of late.
Bonds, currencies and commodities,
Have all shown major turning phases.

The big money players,
Are having changes of heart.
They see the turmoil ahead,
And position accordingly.

I still feel cautious towards gold.
It could well wait till after the crash.
But evidence last Friday changes sentiment.
The fundamentals of gold are speaking now.

In a true crash, all paper vehicles are suspect.
Many houses that trade these vehicles will fall.
All shares will be sold off in a hurry,
To desert the paper equity markets.

There will be rapid shift to real physical assets.
But real assets will be sold to pay for paper losses.
We have already seen these machinations
At work throughout Asia.

The big losers there had to sell all,
To cover their paper losses.
Their houses, Merc's painting and physical gold.
Debts must be recovered.

But those who sold their equity paper,
And transferred their assets to gold.
Survived well, the currency turmoil.

Now US is heading into currency turmoil.

I would have to say that.
Anyone who has removed their paper debts.
Converted equity shares into real assets.
Will survive the coming debacle,
Better than most.

Nick@C gave an excellent analogy on this.
Now it is the West's turn to depreciate.

And we all have ringside seats.
Providing they don't take down the net.
What better way to control the slide,
Than to slow down the comunication channels.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:22 - ID#227238)
Boom Boom.
Give Clinton 10 minutes of instruction in the process and send him into the ME to sweep mines on his hands and knees with a bayonet ..... unsharpened. So he doesn't cut himself.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:26 - ID#255151)
Early 3rd Quarter Earnings

Tie game 17- 17. In the first 2 Quarters, Denver played splendidly and got the breaks. In the 3rd Quarter, so far, Green Bay is playing well and has the breaks going their way.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:27 - ID#344210)
Superbowl halftime @fulla gold and platinum
Go Pack

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:33 - ID#426220)
REF: "Report: U.S. Plans Military Strike on Iraq

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - A countdown to a U.S. military strike against Iraq
could begin as soon as Ramadan, the Muslim holy month of fasting ends Friday, The New York Times reported Sunday, quoting White House officials."

Is it not a sad thought that Saddam Hussein could become a godsend for Pres. Clinton by diverting the public's attention to rally round the flag in the event of a military strike.? Sad indeed...

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:36 - ID#372344)
@ BJ Clinton..."Convenient Manufactured Crisis"?
The more I ponder this issue the more I am concluding that this BJ
Clinton affair looks to be "manufactured". At the start of the year I had made one of my bold predictions that the AG would be forced to lower
US interest rates, to lower the value of the US$ as the first step towards
some type of solution for the Asia Glitch. But looking at this "staged crisis"
they have managed to lower and will continue to lower the US$
without lowering rates and possibly spook the Bond Markets .
It is still possible that the US may be forced to lower interest rates for
domestic reasons, since if this Asia Glitch is BIG then the US economy will most certainly slow as well and the option to lower rates.

In addition If they would have lowered rates first, than all 3 the US$ the Bonds and the equities would tank, and begin the "foreigner interest rate
spiral" ie we demand Higher Interest rates for our US Holdings, which would certainly have lead to a far more serious panic.

This "scandal" is to finger BJ himself as the "Fall Guy" and the Bankers will be off the hook for the Asia Glitch! with the PPT insuring a steady and orderly decline.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:36 - ID#284255)
What, where and why?
If Zhu Rongji flew to OZ to buy the gold.
What's the conection with him and the "Powers" in Washington?

Priminister Howard was in Washinton for the week prior to the sale.
G. Soros was contacted by the OZ Federal banks for dollar support.
The press release was after midnight here on a Friday.
All within the same week.

It all reeks of collusion.
They knew what they wanted.
They were just putting it all together.
But what were the paybacks?

Why did the US tell OZ to sell to China?

There is always a motive,
When collusion manifests itself.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:37 - ID#432221)
Damn what a great time to be a goldbug

those SB updates comin'

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:42 - ID#284255)
Go for the Scampi
Mike Sheller
Leave the big tigers for someone else.
They are old and tough.
Far better the small white prawns.
More to shell but the taste is much sweeter.

As for Scampi.
Smoke them with scallops in the shell.

I have had them many times.
At the wharves where we docked.
One of the trawlers would break open a carton.
Someone would grab a portable fish smoker.
Someone else the cold beer.

Sitting on the edge of the wharf with ones buddies.
Eating smoked scampi and swilling cold beers.
Under the hot sun till late at night.
Telling the tall stories - shooting the fat.

Ah - what a life.
My heart yearns for the days of old.

I can smell the scampi sizzling right now.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:42 - ID#28594)
Sharefin, "The Guessing Game"
There is enormous satisfaction in such elegant prose!
( Not to discount a good deal of welcome information... )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:46 - ID#93232)
Elway is a doubt.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:47 - ID#339320)
"Another: yes you, I single you out because you have chosen to be a tongue.

Once again you and yours have forgotten what we from the hills desired not to once again bring to the world. So be it that which is your unwillingness to allow others to coexist in peace. You think like those whom you discuss. "

Tolerant1: Please elaborate on exactly what it is that "they" have forgotten and "you" from the hills have omnipotently decided NOT to be allowed into the world again.

Please explain where he has, for one moment, "not allowed others to exist in have been warned....".

Please explain the cryptic personal attack on Mozel, who's clarity of thought and coutesy has brought some well needed new blood to Kitco. Is there something I missed?

Today, I feel the sharp pain of disappointment, my cyber- friend.
I, as one who has enjoyed your posts, now find that you are beginning to think precisely like those whom you discuss. It is time sit under that tree of woe for a while, and contemplate today's posts. Either the Tequila has been in generous supply, or one oar has been misplaced somewhere. ( For the moment, I will assume the former ) ANOTHER has always shown a high degree of respect in his posts, ( unlike your recent posts ) has has contributed more new thoughts and outlooks here, than anyone.

I await your favorable reponse, one that will allow me to maintain you in the high reverence that I have held for you.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:48 - ID#255151)
Elway Good as Gold!

Denver 24 Green Bay 17. Elway impressive.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:55 - ID#424187)

Any idea how much of a jump we need to scare those

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:55 - ID#93232)
@Top of the 4th
Denver 24- 17 of gold.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:59 - ID#432221)
Tied at 24

(Sun Jan 25 1998 20:59 - ID#284255)
Who is being used?
I have to feel the same.
It's like the big boys, sense something is wrong
And they need a fall guy.

If the Bilderburgers control the press.
Such an event would be easy to engineer.
They don't have to distort the facts.
They only need to present them in a way
To incite the public.

Same with this war talk.
Seems like the POWER people.
Have a ulterior motive.
They are gearing up for major changes.

The press is their voice.
The people are their power.
It's just that the masses,
Know not what they do.

The will of a few, bend the minds of many.
But why?
What's their ulterior motive?
They have a sense of direction.
A purpose of course.
A course of direction.
For their own benefit.
Of course.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:03 - ID#398105)
Gold in China...............

This URL actually covers all minerals, including gold, for all countries in the world. Select a country by pointing at the map.......

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:05 - ID#227238)
Credit where credit is due.
Studio R: Without Terrell Davis, Elway would have a problem. If he isn't named MVP, those who decide such things, haven't been watching the game.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:05 - ID#189273)
Re convenient manufactured crisis, not likely. Motive to make a crisis might be there, but the opportunity to generate these events is almost impossible to create from afar. The crisis appears to be a result of recent ( last weekend ) deposition given by Clinton in which he denied easily provable affair with Lewinsky. Before that, there was no impeachable offense that could be pinned on him.

More likely than not, a move in the dollar downward is a result of investors fearing some sort of major crisis ahead, along with the uncertainty of President Gore's effect on markets.

If this eases the pain in Asia, it will be just another unintended effect. It may indeed also result in a drying up of the IMF's U.S. funding if Rubin cannot rally 'round Congress. That should stir things up to a very interesting stew! There must be a tremendous buzzing and repositioning in the salons of the powerful this weekend.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:06 - ID#426220)


Tokyo Gold Futures NOW are UP Yen28 per gram. To watch tonight's gold action, go to the Internet location above. Once there, CLICK the "Tokyo Gold" button.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:13 - ID#426220)
TOKYO SILVER has already risen 3.1% today... market still not closed. Looks like the Nippons are not going to be caught holding only worthless paper like the hapless Indonesians who have already seen more than 80% of their savings go down the toilet via devaluations against all paper currencies, but especially GOLD & SILVER.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:13 - ID#344308)

share- fin- - - - - -

don't you just hate- it when that happens?

re...higher prices for gold options...

check out

for friday's closing option prices....

buy gold on the opening monday......contribute to what is right....

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:13 - ID#238422)
"Shorts" will be propably scared if gold hits
$320- 330 AND stays in this range for a week or two.

Just my guess.

Crystal Ball
(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:14 - ID#287367)
Seems there was this nasty biker riding his hawg down the icey highway
one cold day in Colorado, when he spots a cat lying in the middle of
the road. The biker thinks to himself, "I'll cut that cat in two," and
he bears down on it hard. As he gets closer, he suddenly realizes
that it's not a cat, it's a large piece of metal lying in the road.
Too late! His front wheel plows into it and he's sent flying over the
handlebars onto the road at 80 MPH.

Well, when he arrives in Hell, who should be welcoming the new
arrivals but the Devil himself. As the Devil shakes the ( ex ) biker's
hand, he asks mockingly, "So, how do you like it here?"

The bad- a** biker replies, "Man, this is one COOL place!"

The old Devil was just a little miffed at this upstart, so he decides
to crank up the thermostat a notch.

The next day, the Devil seeks out the biker and asks, "So, how do you
like it now?"

Still the bad- a** biker responds by saying, "This is great! Reminds
me of those drug runs to Sonora during the hot afternoons in August."

Naturally, the Devil is only more angered, and cranks the heat up as
far as it can go. The next day, Hell is as hot as it gets. The
Devil again asks the biker how he likes it.

Undaunted, the biker proclaims, "It's almost as hot as the time I beat
and robbed those vacationers out in Death Valley. I love it!"

Now the Devil is just plain upset, so he turns the thermostat all the
way down. The next morning, he finds the biker again and asks, "OK
smart- arse, how do you like it NOW?"

With icicles hanging from every part of his body, the biker inquires,
"W- w- w- what h- h- hhappened, d- d- d- did the Broncos f- f- finally w- w- win
the Super Bowl?"

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:14 - ID#255151)

Amen to T. Davis.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:21 - ID#217268)

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:22 - ID#432221)

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:29 - ID#33180)
When you put your URL in the subject line, users of Netscape under Windows95 cannot click on it to visit your site. Put the URL in the message field, please, so it can be used to point and click.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:34 - ID#93232)
@Damnit Earl and Auric....
Elway is 37...heaven bound.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:35 - ID#372344)
@ sharefin... Prometheus
sharefin, this is nothing new for the US really, Hoover was blamed
in 29, Kennedy of course was shot before a major economic change, and Nixon was blamed for 70's .

Prometheus, I would say to you "How Convenient" look
the same week that BJ is being deposed about sexual advances on
Paula, it is "LEAKED" that BJ admits to Flowers affair, at she is given a full hour on CNN and same day Lewinsky affair in the white house, with video of them embracing, and alleged witnesses at the white house! all a few days before BJ has to give the State of the Union Speech in congress? all too much for me to believe conincidence.

Just the week before San Donaldson Chief Attack Dog for ABC
is pushed out of his cushy ABC office and sent to hound ,in the
front row, BJ Clinton at the white house.

As they say up here in Canada, "You can stick a fork in him"

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:37 - ID#255151)
Go Gold!

Denver 31 Green Bay 24.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:38 - ID#20167)
Tokyo gold +$7 per ounce
Based on vronsky's quote of 28 yen
per gram. Anyone know the actual
Tokyo current price?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:40 - ID#227238)
Studio R: So what? I got shorts older than 37. ...... 'n they ain't heaven bound.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:41 - ID#189273)
Why this one won't blow over
Pardon the pun. Just couldn't help myself. Clinton's damage control team
has been assembled by Hillary on the warpath. This is very familiar
territory to her. You may be sure she won't be hindered by shock or
dismay at Bill's behavior. Monica should expect to be dragged through
the streets anytime now, when the FOB destroy her character in print.

The billion dollar question now is how will the markets digest this in
the morning. I expect a belch, at the least, because this may be the
one that we can't excuse. The woman was of legal age, but she was an
intern, entrusted into adult care in an extension of her education. I am
relieved to find, despite the rash of pro- Clinton press coming out ad nauseum today, that some have got this clear: bin/auth/story.mpl/content/chronicle/page1/98/01/22/clintonanalysis.html

Hope to see gold out there retesting 322 soon!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:44 - ID#286234)

this has been a test

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:45 - ID#426220)
GOLD 302

COMEX GOLD UP $1.70 to $302

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:45 - ID#255151)
4th Quarter Earnings Surprise

Elway, Broncs in story book Super Bowl. Denver is the MILE HIGH city. We have a bear market signal.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:46 - ID#189273)
@my last post
Please note that the WEB address has a dash in it and must be cut and pasted to your "GO TO" line, because the machine reads a space after
the dash which isn't there if you click on it.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:47 - ID#20137)

Denver........ BRONCOS

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:48 - ID#288399)
Stupor Bowl Indicator
How is Ron Insane- a going to spin this indicator NOW?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:49 - ID#335190)
Labour-Labour-Labour @ Creates wealth=Value=Gold=Standard of living
Early this morning material was posted, regarding the Bilderberg Club, formed in 1954, and a Trilateral Commission, formed in 1973. With mention about the National Security Agency ( NSA ) , formed in 1952. Such references, to these organizations have appeared several times before, and I have come across the mention of these organization in other research material.

**I have a question for those with the information regarding these organizations.** When promoting the potential destructive designs of these organization, WHY ? has it not occurred to you people that your promotion has never referenced the MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE EQUATION. LABOUR - LABOUR - LABOUR. Labour creates wealth = Value = Gold = Standard of living.

Hell, I suspect that these destructive organizations mentioned, have you gun shy. Should you not mention the impact on labour, or better, expose the actions within the world labour organizations, by these destructive organizations of the economic controls, that are suggested that these organizations are controlling. Yes, you will be called a RED, if you mention Labour, RIGHT?

Yet, not to consider LABOUR in your information material is to lose sight of the big picture. Your presentation is not complete ! ( control the worker/citizen, they create value )

March 12 1947 - Truman Doctrine, announces aid to Greece and Turkey - aid to countries threatened by Communist take- over.

June 05 1947 - Marshall Plan proposed at Harvard commencement by Secretary of State George C. Marshall - European Aid. Nov. 17 - Truman asks Congress for $597 million - Congress gives $540 million aid for France, Italy, Austria, and **China** - next 40 months will authorize $12.5 Billion, as the Marshall Plan. ( to halt the spread of Communism )

June 23 1947 - Taft- Hartly Act passed *over* Trumans *veto* . Restricts organized labours power to strike, prohibits use of union funds for political purposes.

July 26 1947, The Central Intelligence Agency ( CIA ) authorized by Congress in a National Security Act ( NSA ) , in response to an order by President Truman. The President has acted on the advice of Secretary of State Marshall and James V. Forrestal, the new secretary of defence.

Congress forbids the CIA to have police, subpoena, law enforcement powers or internal security functions inside the united states. But in the 1950s and especially after 1967. CIA operatives will undertake domestic surveillance activities. Compile intelligence files on 10,000 USofA citizens, in violation of the National Security Act.

1947 - Hollywood Black List of alleged Communist sympathizers is compiled by **studio executives,** and presented at a conference at New Yorks Waldorf- Astoria Hotel. The list names an estimated 300 writers, directors, actors, and others known or suspected to have Communist party affiliations or of having invoked the Fifth Amendment against self- incrimination.

1947 - Hollywood Ten draw short prison sentences for refusing to testify ( Dies Committee )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:52 - ID#426220)


Go to the Internet location above. Once there, CLICK the "Tokyo Gold" button.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:52 - ID#255151)
cherokee, Mike Sheller

Re Super Bowl prediction and the January 22, 23 forecast- - - Damn fine calls! The Gold Bull has ridden in on a bucking Bronco!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:53 - ID#252150)
YES!!CANADA WINS SUPERBOWL least the team is owned by a Canadian.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:58 - ID#28585)

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:58 - ID#28585)

(Sun Jan 25 1998 21:58 - ID#28585)

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:01 - ID#20167)
I can't access gold corner, I'am not java
capable Could you post the Tokyo gold price
in yen/gram

Bart Kitner (Kitco)
(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:02 - ID#25867)
Seeking assistance
Vronsky, the gold- eagle is excellent and a must visit for everyone interested in gold. I'm sure a lot of people, myself included, would be interested in knowing when new articles appear on your site. If you keep us abreast of those URLs once as they occur I don't think anyone could argue that that's advertising.

I am respectfully requesting your assistance in creating one of the very few "advertising- free" postings groups on the net. Thanks in advance for your kind cooperation.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:07 - ID#255151)
farfel and Kitco--Should We Sell Stocks?

Did anyone see Eddie Murphy in "Trading Places"? "Sell! Sell! Sell!"

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:08 - ID#257136)
Two ears and the tail for the Broncos. For John from the millions of us who have waited for up to thirty years!!

Now if we could only sic this team on the cheezy bunch in Washington ( :+^ ) }[

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:09 - ID#227238)
Ayork: Using Vronsky's 28 yen per gram: 28 * 32 g/oz / 125 yen/buck = approx $7.00 per oz. .... and shoot me for the loose change.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:09 - ID#257136)
Two ears and the tail for the Broncos. For John from the millions of us who have waited for up to thirty years!!

Now if we could only sic this team on the cheezy bunch in Washington ( :+^ ) }[

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:10 - ID#28585)
Vegas casinos to suffer major hit!! The "house" was solidly behind Green Bay!!!!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:10 - ID#28585)
Vegas casinos to suffer major hit!! The "house" was solidly behind Green Bay!!!!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:11 - ID#242349)
@Its a fantastic nite
From DALLAS To DENVER- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm glad for John Elway. THE BIG MONKEY IS OFF HIS BACK!!!!!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:13 - ID#398105)
farfel...............the Euro and the Swiss.........I agree

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:19 - ID#227238)
Cherokee: Do you have an option site that lists calls a little further out. I have some June 99 390s that I picked up a few months ago. ....... that URL closes shop at Feb 99. Also have some out of the money Dec 98s which are beginning to pick themselves up just a bit. Wish I had the money at the time to pick up some more ...... but what the hell, some is better than none. And maybe this batch will make up for the losers. Eh?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:19 - ID#398105)

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:20 - ID#20167)
I'am looking for the price in yen
per gram, not todays change in price.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:30 - ID#426220)
AYORK: Feb Gold Futures at Yen 1,218 UP Y29

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:30 - ID#189273)
You know . . . .
I just don't know.

All these conspiracy theories just confuse the issue. It's at lease equally possible that major market changes after political crises are just opportunistic. Only historians, and this is uncertain, will know what precipitated the events of this week.

I have personally stopped espousing conspiracy theories even if intellectually interesting because so often such expressions shut out a listener from further honest discussions. Most folks just have a knee- jerk reaction to reject conspiracy theories as "crack pot". However, in the context of this chat group you can ignore them and concentrate on MONEY FLOWING from weak hands into strong hands.

Right now I see gold moving from weak hands into strong hands. The pros buy low and sell high. Gold is low. I want to know who is buying and how much. Further, I want to buy it, trying to get the best price.

The major markets are bound to take some hit on this scandal. The dollar has dropped. There are many ways this could have happened. We can't say for sure that BIG MONEY was behind Clinton's exposure. But we can be sure that they will cash in on it.

So where is your money in the morning? I'm long gold. Call it an insurance policy.

Crystal Ball
(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:38 - ID#287367)
SPOOS down 960...
Gold up, $US and bonds on the balls of their a$$. You gotta love it- - Thank you Bill !!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:45 - ID#290305)
Donkeys, cheese heads and gold - A Living Lesson
From what I understand AFC wins typically mark down periods for the DOW. Being short on the market, I believe this is good

However, I couldnt help to see various posts form cheese heads on this site confidently talking about Green Bays win over the Donkeys. Well the Donkeys took a big dump on those packers, and the packers then took a big gulp. The heavily favored team from the cheese state was outplayed and dazed by the first serious rushing attack they have faced this season. All we heard in these parts were the defensive strength and average weight of the packer players. However, as evidenced today, this outstanding defense was absent - probably out having a few Gilbert Burgers. For you severely humbled cheesehead packer fans, it must be tough, but there is cause to celebrate. I think there is lesson here..

It is this same underdog- ism that dogs the gold market. The paper markets supported by their marketing arm, the big talking business media, is busy talking like the big talking packers were. But, statistically the Broncos had the edge, just as if you apply rational to gold, it has the edge over the paper markets. For all on this site and especially anyone that will admit to being a packer fan or paper bug, talk is cheap, the underdog CAN prevail in the end. NOBODY THOUGHT THE BRONCOS WOULD WIN, NOBODY THINKS GOLD WILL WIN.

We are elated here in Denver, just absolutely elated. I also believe that we will all be elated over the future of gold! The mountains are rumbling here in Colorado and in Green Bay land the cheese must be crumbling!!

StarShine - Shining Bright in the Rocky Mountains!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:46 - ID#318321)
@NBC and neutron JACK
Okay the AFC won the super bowl, we all know what that means. Did anyone see the commercial for some investment company where an Austrailian miner with a metal detector finds a 60 pound gold nugget and throws it in the back of his truck, then the announcer says that this will take care of his retirement? Think about it, millions of people saw a positive spin on gold all courtesy of NBC. Also I think it was NBC who were the first to stop carrying water for Bill. The mindgames they is a changin. Wonder what interest neutron Jack has in Gold?

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:48 - ID#270224)
Anyone know current gold and silver prices in US$
Thanks in advance.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:51 - ID#372344)
@ Prometheus....
I have been long some physical Gold, a bit of Silver, NA Gold Shares,
and for the last week I have been SHORT the US$ and Dow.

BTW "Things" just don't happen. There are real powerful people around the world who run "things", I know this is very hard for alot of people to understand writing it off as "conspiracies" etc... but IMHO that is actually what happens every day in every country, believe it or not.

Mo in To
(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:51 - ID#347205)
The News Worth Hearing...
My fellow Americans, [not really cos I am a Canadian] and Kitcoites:

Congratulations on the Broncos kicking butt and that beautiful
yellow stuff doing likewise!!! Now, what on earth are those people
doing in Washington? Such hanky panky! Tomorrow shall be verrry interesting!

Mo in To

(Sun Jan 25 1998 22:56 - ID#344308)

earl- - - -

that is the best site i know of for free option

who knows where to get quotes on us$ and bonds in
the over- night trading?

time to batten the hatches......

hope all are aboard.......melted the stainless- steel cauldron
used for smoke- signal- generation........last call...ALLABOARD
read kitco - - the archives- - for the truth......and who tells it......

cherokee!;- - armed- to- the- teeth- with- options- - gold, bonds, SOYBEAN PUTS... is good....

Mo in To
(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:03 - ID#347205)
More News from up North
To All,
I was just reading that Billy Clinton is about to attack Saddam
Hussein. Why would he do that? Did he have sex with him too?

More thoughts...I wonder if Friday's action in Canadian Banks has
cured Mr. Soros of his intentions to "short" Canadian banks...he may have lost another billion or so.....

Mo in To

(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:04 - ID#28098)
Well, one can depend on Sharefin to ask the difficult questions...
sharefin ( What, where and why? )

G. Soros was contacted by the OZ Federal banks for dollar support
[Sharefin, Im a little confused here...OZ dollar, yes?

Having walked the circle for a time, having placed my mind firmly in the objective center, and my time frame back to May 1997:

1. Oz government had just made a currency swap with Thailand.
2. Foreign trade: US getting quite arrogantly shirty, mentioning things like 301, etc.
3. May 1997, from the Washingtron Administrations P.O.V. is a GREAT time to be alive, things couldnt be better. This is not an administration long on international policy or thought. What there is firmly entrenched in the Middle East/Bosnia/Euro..
4. China wants to buy a piddly 167 tonnes of gold, so what? Howard/OZ will have the Tbonds, so what?
5. Oh, Howard wants to come to the Private Fed window and get some cash
for the bonds? So what? Just make sure word doesnt leak out and roil the markets.

Why? If you have a firm idea who the next World Power is going to be, and its an 800 pound gorilla who is on YOUR doorstep, why not be accommodative? Friendly? Do a deal?
In a word, the Why? is Australasia.
The PowerShift: The New Paradigm

Carl@The.India.Question Im working on it! {:- )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:10 - ID#372344)
@ Canadian $ up to 69.06 .... Hey it's a good start.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:12 - ID#41229)
I, like you believe that actions at this high of level, wether it is political or economical it comes down to power. The people who have the power manipulate, directly or indirectly the outcome of events. When the stakes are this high you can bet the outcome is already known.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:12 - ID#348286)
@BREAKING NEWS: New witness may exist who saw Bubba and Lewinsky having sex in whitehouse.
Jan. 25  ABCNEWS has learned that Independent Prosecutor Kenneth Starrs investigation has moved well beyond Monica Lewinskys claims, in taped conversations, that she had an affair with President Clinton.
 Several sources have told ABCNEWS Starr is investigating claims that, in the spring of 1996, the president and Lewinsky were discovered in an intimate encounter in the White House. It is not clear who in the White House discovered the pair.
 Shortly after the alleged incident, Lewinsky was moved from her job at the White House to the Pentagon.

Bart Kitner (Kitco)
(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:15 - ID#25867)
vronsky, I posted a message to you at 22:02. AYORK asked you a question at 22:01 to which you responded. So I'm glad you must have read my post too. Phew!

( I posted some other stuff for you earlier but assumed, because you didn't respond, that you hadn't seen it )

Anyway, you can let me know by email whatever suggestions you may have. ( )

(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:16 - ID#335190)
Labour-Labour-Labour @ Creates Wealth=Value=Gold=Standard of living (Part II)
Detroit Free Press May 23 1966:
 On May 22 1966, Victor Reuther ( Brother of Walter Reuther UAW President ) international affairs director of the United Automobile Workers, charged that the AFL- CIOs department on international affairs is **involved** with the Central Intelligence Agency ( CIA ) .

The AFL- CIO and some of its affiliates have permitted themselves to be used by the Central Intelligence Agency as a cover for clandestine operations abroad, he said. The tragedy of AFL- CIO activities in foreign affairs is that they are a vest pocket operation of Jay Lovestone.

Reuther continued, and as long as that is so, there will be no changes in the federations foreign policy  

Jay Lovestone, was global affairs operational man since World War II, as AFL- CIO President George Meanys Representative. The suspicion is that Jay Lovestone and George Meany, actually serve the interests of the CIA in various parts of the world.

Victor Reuther was the first top union official to make this public. Victor Reuther for 20 years had handled the international business of the UAW. And had been associated with the CIO as an international affairs official before the AFL- CIO merged, then was a member of the international affairs of the AFL- CIO.

The State Department, was forced to admit publicly that the CIA has been financing those frequently publicised pro- American or pro- West NSA- sponsored student actions abroad, as well as scholarships for African students. The exposure also revealed how foundations bearing innocent names serve as conduits for CIA in the transfer of funds for good causes. CIA passed its money to NSA annually through such good causes ( Foundations, Student Groups, etc )

August 1966, Meany announced that the Council  rejects out of hand the campain of vilification directed against it and adopted a statement praising the work of the American Institute for Free Labor Development, whose activities Victor Reuther cited to back his charges.

When asked what the specific charges were, Meany replied, fomenting revolutions, running training schools for company unions and acting as an agent of the State Department and CIA.

When newsmen pressed him to explain what prompted such serious charges, Meany shot back. Does the Daily Worker need prompting to vilify the AFL- CIO ?

The newsmen, however, did not accept this transparent McCarthyism for an answer and Meany had to concede that some other publications also gave publicity to Reuthers charges. In fact, these included such papers as the Los Angeles Times, Detroit Free Press, Philadelphia Inquirer, Washington Post, New York Times and others that ran the story. Meany tried to RED- BAIT the Reuthers with his tactic, thus giving some indication of the intensity of the conflict.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:23 - ID#372344)
@ refer...
I couldn't agree more. The only question IMHO is how soon will WE
know the outcome and the full extent of the financial and economic changes coming.... My money is on GOLD!!!!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:23 - ID#410387)
Can someone explain why the Kitco Gold price is always lower than The Gold price posted at the CBS Comex Site??????? Thanks in advance. Just learning!!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:34 - ID#251268)
Whew,I'm a little drunk but what the hey I was rootin for the Bronco's and gold,what a contrarian!gona take a short ( ha ha ) nap and get up for a wild ride,go Bronco'sI'm long 290's and 310's will be looking to sell 350's tommorow and get energy futures!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:38 - ID#28098)

Sharefin, TZADEAK ( Who is being used? )
Valid point, well taken! If weve managed to see the Great Gold Heist ( Paper ) , perhaps the Old Power Group has realized that the jig is almost up!
There goes their oh so profitable paper world. I reckon the idea of NOT
being the sole power force in the world would be most unsettling.
And the new kid is NOT going to play their games.
And has a BIG army and lots and lots of people.
And, worst of all, a totally different mind- set, one which does not place
money, and the gathering in of same, as the single most important theme in the universe.
Oh my yes, they have reason- - good reason- - to be unsettled.

(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:43 - ID#31868)
refer - hmmmm
Worms eh. On this evenings duration I ate 15.

On this evening I heard the screams of those who have hearts, I sat by the waters edge, nothing new was told to me.

Go in peace. For me it is a priviledge for an instant to be that which you think of.


(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:49 - ID#372344)
@ SDRer.... Now you're talking!!!!
"They" are not only concerned about China a new superpower on the block, but also the almost instictive reaction by other smaller players
like the French, Germans, japan, even the Arabs and the Russians who
slowly begin to "gang" up after years of Domination, much what happened in the 70's the only difference is this time IMHO the US
will never be the same, as I stated in previous posts the US$ will
have to share the World Reserve Currency "Throne" and believe
me it will be crowded, indeed!

(Sun Jan 25 1998 23:59 - ID#393224)
Golden Ducks
Auracious, J.D., Haggis and Spock

I hope you're watching the 'you- know- what'

4/64- - now for some golden ducks

This'll confuse the northerners!!!