Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:04 - ID#340459)
What is the Spot now ? Any News
How can I get the current Far East prices

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:10 - ID#28098)
Haggis, a question if you please?
My ignorance about mining is great...

Can a well- run mine be 'pleasantly profitable' under the Chinese Mining
Law Protocal? Because it occurs that it may well be imitated by others...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:12 - ID#255151)
Go Gold

I wonder if this "Fornigate" scandal will prove to be a seminal event.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:13 - ID#41229)
I think you took my post in the wrong way, was not trying to insult was trying to spark a conversation, my appoligies. I have not been here long enough to get a good feel for the individuals.

At times feel like a bowl in a china closet. This whole internet thing is new to me, felt compelled to participate inorder to increase my understanding in current events, so that I can position myself to gain from events. However when the dust settles on upcoming events I think I will have gained, but will truely be saddened.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:13 - ID#41229)
I think you took my post in the wrong way, was not trying to insult was trying to spark a conversation, my appoligies. I have not been here long enough to get a good feel for the individuals.

At times feel like a bowl in a china closet. This whole internet thing is new to me, felt compelled to participate inorder to increase my understanding in current event so that I can position myself to gain from events. However when the dust settles on upcoming events I think I will have gained, but will truely be saddened.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:15 - ID#227238)
It's interesting to note that according to Tokyo numbers on gold- eagle, all precious metals are now in backwardation. Current GC8G is about $311.30 while the Dec contract GC8Z is at 307.70. Rough numbers using 125 yen for conversion and 32 g/oz. Palladium is in the greatest backwardation. ........ Probably not significant but ...... inquiring minds sometimes want to know. And besides it's more interesting than additional DC hog wallow.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:16 - ID#339212)
To Nick@C
In your Jan 25, 00:14 post you say that:

"Small producers, especially with mines in Indonesia are going for a song..."

My question to you is this:

In an area where abundant cheap labor exists ( as it is the case today after the meltdown ) surely it is advantageous to operate a gold mine.
Gold is sold and with fraction of the proceedings workers are paid. The production costs of such mines must be the envy of the mining industry.

As long as there is some convertibility after the Indonesian currency has stabilized, where is the problem? After all, look at the rush of all multinationals to do business in China. They chose China for the abundant low cost labor. Why is it different for gold mines? Mining reserves go up as the currency devalues. Please explain.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:17 - ID#238295)
brokerage failures and investor losses
Farfel; Your 16:48 post was one of the best I have seen here for a long time.

BTW, the Hong Kong investors are asking for a bailout from losses associated with a brokerage failure, not losses from the market decline per se. The SIPC can protect investors in this country from brokerage house failures ( if there aren't too many of them ) , but there is no way investors will be compensated for market losses not associated with fraud.

Gold and Asia continuing to move in the same direction - - UP.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:17 - ID#252150)
Clinton Prediction@ The Last Refuge
He will resign within a week. Then disappear for 6- 12 months & find God.

He will then become a TV evangalist & end up bigger that Jimmy Swaggart & Jerry Falwell combined. He will then take over from Billy Graham as the pre- eminent evangalist in the Christian world.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:19 - ID#266105)
Cyberpuck- the dark future of hockey.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:20 - ID#431263)
PACKER loss means the end of good economic times ( beer, brats and cheese ) and the beginning of the biggest market meltdown since the Great Depression ( Donkey scheiss, donkey scheiss and more donkey scheiss ) . 1998 will see a major Middle East war, a worldwide financial crisis of epic proportions, another failed US presidency and the union of China, Russia and Iran to oppose US hegemony in Asia and the Middle East. The US$ will collpase against all major currencies, oil will be repiced in terms of gold and gold will soar to unheard of values vis- vis the dollar and will cease to trade except behind closed doors! All paper will be trashed and the failed policies of the donkeys, Clinton, Gore, Gephardt and Kennedy will lead to a GOP landslide in 2000 after the Y2K scheiss hits the fan and leads to economic gridlock and the destruction of the US stock and bond market, Social Security and Medicare! Boomers will be as shocked and angry as those in third world Asia are right now. Only the precious yellow will enable those who see the handwriting on the wall to survive- - and even that won't save us from the biological terrors about to be unleashed on mankind by our enemies! Truly a time of trouble unlike anything the world has ever before experienced. God help us! Congratulations to STARSHINE and all donkey fans but it will be a devastating year for all of us who don't own the precious yellow!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:36 - ID#28585)
Given that the brokerage failure was caused by market losses, ergo the Chinese investors suffered losses owing to bullish investments on the part of the brokerage house. They incurred their losses for being bulls at the wrong moment in history.

If the brokerage that failed had specialized in shorting the market and purchasing gold, do you think the Chinese government would have stepped in to save their butts? NOT A CHANCE IN HELL!!!

BOTTOM LINE: why do governments step in to safeguard bullish investments but provide absolutely no relief for long suffering bears who have suffered equally significant losses?? It is the most egregious double standard.

I have not one scintilla of sympathy for the investors who have reaped years of bullish gains and, in their greed in buying at a market top, then lose all those gains plus some!!!

That's the way the game is played. The Chinese investors should be held personally responsible for making the erroneous bullish investments that have now collapsed. PERIOD!

Instead, they go crying to the government and have the audacity to demand compensation for their losses!! THAT IS CRAP!! They should be held personally responsible...otherwise the government simply prints money, creates inflation, and harms those people who chose to sit on the sidelines during the bullish market mania.!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:37 - ID#41229)
Was curiuos of your call options stratejy, I have calls ranging from 300- 400, I started with higher strikes thinking would have more plays when gold spikes, then when heard "experts" last month calling for gold to go to $350 range this year, I started place lower strikes, they were more money, purchased less of them compared to higher strikes, but their pretty safe on not expireing wothless. Now I think time to horde on some cheaper $400 Would be interested on your thoughts, also on grains. I was thinking of waiting for bottom and purchase some calls. Even when people broke they still find money for food.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:38 - ID#28098)
Now that we have the script before us, some questions still remain:

1. Will the US ( where I am domiciled ) use PEO 10997 ? or opt for the Chinese Law Protocol?
Chinese law specifies that all Chinese gold mines, including foreign invested joint ventures, must sell all of their production to the Chinese central bank, the People's Bank of China ( PBOC ) at 90 per cent of international market price...
I think the later more probable. And then only if the price of gold gets really out- of- hand.

2. If either of the above possibilities comes to be, then might it be reasonable to suggest that gold stocks become a value storage ? ( Because what private person will be able to buy the physical? )

Lets discuss please...

Yellow Jacket__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:39 - ID#4289)
EARL: The latest quotes are:
GC8G= $301.80
Check at: htx/http2_mw& ticker= GC= G8& tables= TABLE
GC8Z= $309.30
Check at: htx/http2_mw& ticker= GC= Z8& tables= TABLE
I see no backwardation.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:39 - ID#339212)
To: Earl

Ref. your Jan 25, 01:59 post in which you make the following statement:

"in a nutshell; Asia borrowed a lot of money to build productive capacity and some silly things at the time when the world did not need productive capacity"

1. The first part of your statement is correct. Yes Korea borrowed a lot of money.

2. Now lets be sensible, "building productive capacity when the world did not need productive capacity" makes no sense to me.

My thoughts: Was Ford wrong building capacity in the '30s? The world was, is and will always be in need of extra production capacity. Look at your computer which has an increased appetite for memory. Competing with production in the world markets is a must. Tell me one good reason why the world does not need more products. And your example about the sophisticated mouse trap is not a good one. Samsung builds VCRs not mouse traps.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:41 - ID#177109)
that's what klintone has been doing for the last five years. maybe he should try a new line of work.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:46 - ID#28585)
Will Clinton speak in forked tongue ( platitudes about concocted economic figures and imaginary economic progress ) or will he speak the truth ( How many times did Lewinsky orgasm the first time she sucked him off? Did he spew all over her face or just her bosom? Did he talk dirty to her or did he simply turn on a porn movie while they did it? )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 00:56 - ID#339212)
To: SDrer_A
Interesting you mentioned gold stocks vs. physical.

The consensus in this forum is that 1% increase in the physical results in 3% - 4% increase in the gold stocks. Speaking about leverage! In view of all this bullish sentiment in gold, why on earth someone will choose physical over gold stocks? For absolute safety and liquidity? When times get tough it will be more difficult to liquidate gold than gold stocks. Of course, if your business is to sell coins, then bad mouth the stocks and be proponent of bullion.

Tax laws will get tougher in trading coins. Many will be surprised to find that they have been well prepared for the crash, and yet unable to profit from it. I see a lot of bullion fans calculating their theoretical profits but never taking them. At least gold stock holders can get in or out with a simple trade in the web or a telephone call to their broker.

And I do not buy the fact that one should get out of any form of paper. If things get that bad that you can't trade even a gold stock, then the metal will be untradable too!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:01 - ID#393224)
Indonesian gold mines
G'day Myrmidon
Indonesian gold mines owned by foreign companies are an contrarian's dream right now. The prices were first slugged by the Bre- x scandal. Indonesian gold mines became a dirty word. Now they have been slugged by two other things- - the fall in the gold price and the 'chaos' factor for Indonesia. If you believe as I do that a ) the price of gold will recover and b ) Indonesia will remain stable and the economy will eventually recover THEN these shares are the sale of the century. I like to take big but manageable risks for the prospect of large gain, so I have bought Aussie producers for 1/10th the price of a year ago. As I said, labor costs are now dirt cheap and as the product sold is gaining in US$$ I believe the outlook is good. Buying gold futures/options would probably be a comparable risk but at expiry time you could lose the lot. That is why I prefer the shares with "producing" gold mines and huge exploration acreage and at least a year of forward sales ( but not too much more ) .

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:05 - ID#28098)
Myrmidon , my thanks
What you say makes a great deal of sense. Again, my thanks
for taking the time to share your thoughts.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:05 - ID#93199)
Fidelity select Gold Charts
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious metals Charts
5 Years, 120 day, 30 day and hourly charts at:
Click on Gold Sectors

Interesting Technical article explaining the use of
Multiple Moving Averages by Daryl Guppy in :
Technical analysis of Stocks & Commodities
Feb 98 ( one example is COMEX Gold )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:07 - ID#42371)
@ Nick
please Give us an example.

desert rat
(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:07 - ID#269118)
indonesian mines@ Nick
What do you like in Indonesia now as far as anything trading on
US exchanges? Does Freeport McMoran Copper and Gold have
exposure there? TIA

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:08 - ID#431263)
Sounds to me like you're a perfect candidate for VENGOLD ( VENGF ) and its 10.3% stake in LIHIR. What an incredible bargain trading at 13/16 a 30% discount to its underlying asset, LIHIR! The management of Vengold fully intends to eventually take over complete control of this project and will eventually be a major producer!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:10 - ID#431263)
Gold DOWN $3.95!
Gold just got hit $3.95! What happened? Fed intervention?

Yellow Jacket__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:10 - ID#4289)
Au stocks as value storage
SDRer: To me, gold stocks are not a proxy for physical gold. Their value may reflect the fluctuations in the value of the physical asset, but they will never be a "store of value." Surely the have a value, but it is dependent on MANY factors not the least of which are management strength ( I like RYO's ) , hedge position ( I like DROOY's - low to none ) , capitalization structure ( low or high leverage or debt to asset ratio - do you want to buy my REO stock? or farfel's PGU? ) , and general movements in the stock market. John Disney's "gearing" ( posted Sat. or Fri. ) is the result. Gold stocks move in price relative to how "geared" they are. A $1 move in the price of the physical metal results in different percentage moves for different stocks and this is a reflection of how risky an investment they are. I call the number the "gamma coefficient" of the stock. RYO's is about 1.8, meaning that a $1 move in gold will result in ( about ) a 1.8% move in the price of the stock. DKT's is about 4.0, which is understandable since it is a higher risk stock. I try to balance my portfolio based on these numbers.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:15 - ID#31868)
I will not beg your foregiveness, ain't my way. Howvever, I will say this while I can still sit and type.

I do apologize if anything I previously posted offended you, was not my wish and certainly not my desire to do so.

There is a two year old, tugging me away, her reason is that I need to rest, she is an Angel

little tiny persons introduce me to Gods I thought lived only in my dreams.

refer, pardon me if I was rude I mean that most sincerely.

ouch, that, ouch and, and, and, small but violent, ouch, good evening, ouch!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:15 - ID#402183)
Please oh please oh please.
Dear God.... Just one more gold boom. Not at the cost of Marines in the Mideast or yuppies jumping from Wall Street ofice buildings. I am prepared to sacricfice one forgettable and sad U. S. President, however.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:17 - ID#407135)
Looks like the $3.95 fall was just a Kitco glitch It is back up again

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:17 - ID#41229)
Farfel@Swiss and Euro currency
Your post earlier describing the minipulation of gold falls into what I came up with after reading all the information on on Vronski's sight and then the unfolding visions of ANOTHER. I post a question for J Disney of an example of my thoughts, basically with the gold market as thin as it is, in retrospect to wealth of today, it would be very easy to minipulate gold market and make money on the way down and up, with the ability to accumalate physical at very low prices. If there is a gold/oil relationship, which there seems to be, it would go unchecked by the party, or parties that have this deal with oil. Until it got out of their control.

Also take in account, the speculation on Asia's currency, the relationship here is Japan, who holds the largest amount of U.S. paper outside of the states.

Take a look at earlier post, states this alot better.

The whole thing with ANOTHER just doesn't sit right with me. I think he is a Trojan Horse. He wants everyone to buy physical, which will cause a greater shortage causing price to explode.

Now the Clinton fiascle, is all these events coincidence or are they all events to an overall plan.

What is this plan, to take down the fiat currencies, and the U.S. which is the heart and sole of the paper market. If you can't take down a country militarial, what do you do? You hit them financailly, an emborgoe on a large scale.

It sounds off the wall and paranoidal but who knows? I was trying to relate earlier so someone could shoot it down, and call me a crack pot. It seems very hard to break into the click, or group of people on site.

So with this hypothesis, ANOTHER is not middleastern, not asian, but European. We are being minipulated to help bring down the fiat currency system.

P.S. I don't recieve flash emails from breaking world events from that fax company, meaning I don't normally fall into that type of stuff, maybe been at this sight too long?

Everyone take your shots, and shoot the thought down, it will enable me to get a better understanding.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:19 - ID#402183)
I do not know the alleged greivance, but that may be the most eloquent apology I have ever seen in print.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:20 - ID#339212)
@ Nick
The question of political instability is paramount.

North American and Australian gold stocks are IMHO much safer than Indonesian and to some extend S. African. Investing in South Africa adds risk which I decided not to take. I read some earlier posts of pro South African investing, and granted some golds there have made some good moves. The market will discount the risk and what happened in the last week will not continue in the long run.

Is someone trying to say that the S. African gold shares will outperform the N. American or Australian? Even if they do, the political risk is high enough to discourage investments there.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:31 - ID#393224)
Indonesian gold mines
Guys- - I hate to mention individual gold juniors as they can be real casino stuff, but since my arm was twisted- - I like Laverton Gold ( LVG ) . For majors Golden Cheesehead is spot on with the Lihir/Vengold pick ( not Indonesia but right next door in Papua New Guinea ) . Don't know which companies are traded in N.America- - ask your brokers and if you are a contrarian with a very high risk tolerance- - Indonesian gold producers are as good as any craps table I know of. Perhaps Haggis can enlighten us on other picks ( if he can tear himself away from his silver darlings- - East Coast Minerals and Legend- - Aye!! ) .

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:31 - ID#28585)
Yellow Jacket, please do not refer to Pegasus as "Farfel's Pegasus."

Although I touted Pegasus ONLY when it traded at 5/8 as a 50/50 play in favor of making a very fast buck in the event of a debt re- structuring, I never at any time recommend buying stocks with high debt to asset ratios. NEVER!!

Based on discussions I had with several gold mining execs, I believed that Pegasus might avert a bankruptcy given two major realities:

1 ) The schism between collateralized and non- collateralized banks.

2 ) The unlikelihood that collateralized banks will be to force a quick collection of their monies from a Pegasus operating under Chapter 11 bankruptcy, i.e, they will wait one hell of a long time.

How did I know the banks would act in an extremely severe ( and if you ask me...irrational manner ) with respect to Pegasus? I guess they were really pissed off, huh??

Personally, I continue to believe that, if gold makes a very fast rebound to $350 or better, then you might yet see Pegasus exit bankruptcy with a fast shot upward in its common stock ( currently trading on the TSE ) .

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:40 - ID#372344)
@ SDRer....
Well look are we in the west not really doing the mostly same thing?
Our CB's as have just confirmed here at Kitco have been buyers
Germany, France even the US. So my scenario is as follows:

The US ,Europe and Asia and others will FIGHT for Gold.
This will mean since the US is one of top Gold Producers and
when you add the untold undiscovered Gold mines in Canada
and South America, The US and the Americas which I believe will
become a Economic Zone are in great shape, what with the US current
reserves of Gold, highest in the world.

As you point out the Chinese mine Gold, BTW did you know that alot of it is in TIBET! Indonesia , BRX not withstanding, has Gold and also India
and Russia, so they will have gold however they are far behind the
US and Europe. This will be another economic zone.

The Europeans added together have as much or more with public
held Gold, than the US so far, BUT!! they do not mine Gold in any
great quantity. Which leaves the BIG QUESTION OF SOUTH AFRICA!
Will the US allow the Euro's and the Chinese who have just formalized
diplomatic relations with SA, get a hold of that GOLD? I don't believe
they will. IHMO and I HOPE this scenario does NOT come about,
but "they" will forment troubles there one can begin to see the start of said caipaign, so that only little gold is mined.

I also made note in previous posts that the US has been printing a new US$, so that I believe these Economic Zones will have dual currency systems, internal for domestic use only and external for world trade,
and the domestic mines will be operating under normal financial arrangements in their respective economic zones, with that Gold bought with internal $ and miners and shareholders will be rewarded in said internal$.

As I mentioned before the BIG question is South Africa? Who will get
that Gold if anybody? all IMHO only of course.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:42 - ID#339212)
thoughts on gold stocks
One more reason to own gold stocks is that you can sell covered calls and get an extra 20% on your investment... if and when gold stabilizes a bit after an upward move. This may not sound a lot but if, say, gold went to $400, a 20% return from options relates to another $80 backs in the price of gold ( to $480 ) .

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:50 - ID#57232)
Euro to be on gold standard, or like Swiss frank/US dollar?
farfel, OldGold, All: About 6 months ago I quoted summaries of articles from the CEPR, NBER supported symposium at the University of Warwick July 9- 11, 1990. The symposium was titled "Exchange Rate Targets and Currency Bands", Eds Paul Krugman and Marcus Miller.

Most of this symposium discusses how a currency on the gold standard should operate - - using modern analytical methods. Topics discussed included: How much gold reserves to handle exchange rate fluctuations for each country ( ie gold would be bought and sold to neutralize fluctuations in the currency ) , and why going on the gold standard should be done secretly without the knowledge of the public. So we know much thought has gone into this.

My question to both of you is this: For this to work, each country should have a certain amount of gold in relation to the size of its economy, and the currency ( EURO ) would have to be firmly linked to so many ounces of gold, as the Pound Sterling and the American dollar were years ago. What evidence do we really have right at this moment that this is the case?

As far as I know the only Bank in the world that is still on the gold standard is the BIS in Basel Switzerland. Now if the Euro is to be firmly backed by gold ( true gold standard ) - - just like the BIS, that would be news indeed - - and a real threat to the dollar. After the SEAsian fiasco, the Asian currency to be will probably be firmly backed by gold. That's what I would do if I were an Asian.

Unfortunately, I think we will find after all the excitement about european gold hoarding is that Germany, France and Italy ( and perhaps the United States ) just bought some gold when it was cheap. My guess is that at this point in time the EURO to be unveiled on 1/1/1999 will not be backed by gold, but will be supported by gold, just as the US dollar and Swiss frank are right now.

Please convince me that I am wrong - - I would love to invest in the Euro if it was to be stronger than the Swiss Frank - - which is at the moment only supported by gold, but not backed by gold.

Yellow Jacket__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:55 - ID#4289)
Farfel: My reference to your ownership of PGU was made only to illustrate the point that high debt to asset is risky and can have a profound effect on the price of the stock. I did not mean to imply that your ownership of PGU should be any reflection of you or your opinions. I only found out that you owned PGU from reading the wekend posts. I haven't lurked here for about two months. And, heck, I bought Rea Gold and that stock is more worthless than Pegasus'.

Nick, Golden Cheesehead and any one else interested in VENGF: They can be checked out at At about $1 book value per share vs. last quoted at 13/16, and offering low liquidity due to the low daily number of shares traded ( seldom over 50,000 with over 84 million oustanding ) It's not my cup of tea but, hey, that's only my opinion.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 01:55 - ID#372344)
@ SDRer... One more thing....
I believe Autralian Gold proceeds which can be large, will be divided off between Asia, Europe, and the America's all in a reasonable and plausable effort to avoid World War. Australia IMHO this way would greatly benefit since she would be able to trade with the rest of the world for what is not produced domestically.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 02:00 - ID#335190)
Labour-Labour-Labour @ Creates Wealth=Value=Gold=Standard of living (Part III)
Allen Dulles, ( ran a collaborating intelligence operation in Switzerland for the Allies. ) the father of the CIA, who was its director from 1953 to 1961, is a man with considerable corporation holdings. But his major power derives from his position as head of Sullivan & Cromwell, ( October 11 1944 noted in the New York Times - Senator Claude Pepper criticized Sullivan and Cromwell as having aided Hitler financially in 1933 )

NOTE: Present at the January 04 1933 meeting were the Dulles brothers, John Foster Dulles and Allen W. Dulles of the New York law firm, Sullivan and Cromwell, which represented the Schroder Bank. The Dulles brothers often turned up at important meetings. They had represented the United States at the Paris Peace Conference ( 1919 ) ; John Foster Dulles would die in harness as Eisenhowers Secretary of State, while Allen Dulles headed the Central Intelligence Agency for many years. Their apologists have seldom attempted to defend the Dulles brothers appearance at the meeting which installed Hitler as the Chancellor of Germany, preferring to pretend that it never happened.

The harmless kitten the CIA was supposed to be when President Trumen instituted it in 1947, grew into a beast for which no one seems to want to take responsibility. As the public outcry grows for controls over it, the very men who brought it into existence have tried to shake off responsibility.

Harry S. Truman December 12 1963  I would like the CIA to be restored to its original assignment as an intelligence arm of the President and whatever else it can properly perform in that special field. 

President Eisenhower issued a warning in his last speech as President January 17 1961 We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions....We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all the Corporations. Now this conjunction of immense military establishment and a large armaments industry is new in the American experience....In the councils of government we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military- industrial complex...We should take nothing for granted...

1929 - Jay Lovestone AFL- CIO, ( 1967 ) ( CIA ? ) who has been described as very influential in US policy making and in the framing of the AFL- CIOs foreign policy, is invariably referred to as a former Communist In 1929 he was expelled after a long struggle within the Communist Party. Lovestone and those expelled with him took the position that American Capitalism was of an exceptional and all- powerful nature, one to which marxist analyists was not applicable, and that the prosperity of *the twenties* would last a long time.

The expulsions were hardly carried out when the *big crash of 1929* came. Before long, Lovestone and others ousted with him became professional anti- Communists.During the McCarthyite lunacy, men paid him and others, believing that they needed an expert on Communism to fight Communists.
In 1940 - Lovestone was assigned as Meanys ( AFL- CIO ) intellectual valet because Lovestone is listened to in the State Department and would periodically canvass the world Communist situation in a talk with the then Secretary of State John Foster Dulles ( Brother of Allen Dulles Father of the CIA ) When the Free Trade Union Committee was formed in
1944, Lovestone s links to the CIA was bluntly put, and never denied. Lovestone was made Secretary of the AFL, international affairs, Free Trade Union Committee,

1956 - General MacArthur, while ruling over Japan, purged 12,000 alleged Communist union leaders He wrote, Today in many Asian countries the American embassy has both a labour attache and a labour information officer. These men, on a governmental and official level, observe and report on the progress of labour in the countries to which they have been assigned and - when asked - inform Asian trade unions about American trade union procedures.

Labour by being "Patriotic", could prevent setbacks for the workers during the war. Patriotism in this sense meant blind support of every government act regardless of what the policy might bring. The concept was if Labour gave a blank check on foreign policy matters, they would get better treatment on domestic issues. They reasoned that their influence was small and that it might be better to be "practical".

The tragedy today ( 1966 ) is that after all the decades of futility in trying to appease Corporations much of the labour leadership still plays the same deadly game.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 02:02 - ID#57232)
G'nite all!
Looks like the sp- 500 is still way down on the globex, but the Eurodollar is recovering a bit. I bet there will be a major effort to push the US dollar back up a bit tomorrow - - can't let it drop, can we?

The Hatt
(Mon Jan 26 1998 02:22 - ID#294232)
Must add another soon to be gold producer that trades for twenty cents!!!!!!
Claimstaker Resources trades on the V.S.E. under the symbol CLN.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 02:22 - ID#41229)
No need to apoligize, when it was my ignorance by not understanding your post. I just didn't want ya to take it the way wrong.

A toast to ya, guzzzzzllllleee, I drink beer, had bad experiences with takillya, it made me think I had a big red S on my chest. I learned that I really couldn't fly only the next day when I would wake up. aaaaaarggggg!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 02:32 - ID#372344)
@ Japan ... Again complains about US Warplane Flights...Hhmmmm

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 02:35 - ID#24135)
For Myrmidon

Re your comment on Indonesian potential for

"instablity" - The idea of instability only has ANY

meaning to me in the following context.

1. are investments in that country subject to

loss because of revolution and an abrupt change to

an less investor friendly Government that may initiate

punitive taxes or new costs on my investment ( for exp

Austalia institution - and thern withdrawal of Gold

Mining Tax ) , or civil disruption to the point that my

investment may be destroyed or shut down for a long

time ( example Namibia- Gold field namib ) , or is it

likely that a fall in the currency may occur that may

harm the value of my investment ( for ex mexico- Asian

tigers ) .

2. IF I plan to LIVE as well as invest in that

country - is it Safe for me to do so. And will I be

in any way disadvantaged because of any wealth I may

have or gains I may make.

If your investments are in gold mining fears of

currency devaluations can be eliminated forthwith.

Net result of this is a wash on a mining investment

as profits RISE to offset most of currency loss.

"Instabilty" effects have come from surprising

quarters. The Blanket assumption that RSA is less

stable ( in the above context ) than say Australia is

wrong. Australia has been hit by the imposition of

the capital gains tax - and the intent of the Govt

is to milk the mines as soon as it has a chance. Its

sale of gold to China?? was clearly insensitive to

its mining interests.

Who among the various experts at Kitco ( im NOT

being sarcastic ) would have taken view that the asian

tigers were unstable?? not me. I didnt invest there

just because I wasnt interested. I was lucky.

Indonesia has experienced the "night of the long

knives" - it has the potential for military coups -

it does not have established democratic traditions -

I an unsure of its judicial system - Its islands

are diverse and could act in their own interests and

fragment - ( ie why should Borneo pay taxes to a govt

in Java ) - It has a large and potentially militent

Moslem population - sooner or later these guys may

go fundamental. It IS potentally unstable.

Having said this - I still have about 20% of my

own investments there as the potential gains outweigh

the risks - I think. But I think so less than I did

a month ago.

I obviously disagree with you about RSA. I regard

it as somewhat more dangerous than the US as a place

to live. But a lot more pleasant and much cheaper.

It provides me a better life style than the US, or

even Australia ( much as I love it ) . It has no capital

gains tax, has not made high profile gold sales, issues

its own bonds rather than buy US paper, avoids the

Foreigb bank loans, has as good a judicial system as the

US ( vis OJS trial ) - does not use trial by jury

( a fiasco in a "diverse" society ( vis OJS trial ) , has

well established democratic institutions, Sits on top

of MORE gold and PMG than any country in the world.

IT has never confiscated gold from its citizens.

It has no natural enemies other than those in the world

press organizations.

It has a high crime rate and a growing drug

problem - But not where I live.

You asked if anyone thinks that the South African

stocks will outperform the NA stocks - Yes I do.

I think there is no doubt about that whatsoever.

But you stick to your NA stocks - they are fine -

I dont think you will LOSE. And you will be comfortable

with them and THATS important - Money is really not


(Mon Jan 26 1998 02:36 - ID#244360)
You bring up a good point about bullion holders calculating their profits but never taking them. There are several classes of bullion holders, but let me speak of the die- hards with which you take issue.
It is true that according to how you see "profit taking" they do not "take profits" but that is not why they are in the game. It is as of definition that it is this way for they hold bullion because they hold no confidence in paper. These are those who constantly scream that paper money is without value. ( But it isn't, at least not right now. It does have buying power, which means it has valuation in the marketplace, the practical and final judge of "value" in terms of buying power )
So your insight on their reluctance to "take profits" is an insight into their consistancy of mouth and money. They reject fiat currency as a measure of value, so they feel no urge to lock in a "profit" that exists only in terms of a fiat currency's revaluation against their gold.
There are also inconsistant "fiat- currency- bashing- die- hard- hoarders" who chant the same line. However, when gold is rising in terms of the fiat currencies they will yet be found cashing in their "intrinsically valuable" gold for what else but that wretched, worthless fiat paper!

I think you're also seeing the differentiation that exists between those who trade gold short term in hope of gaining paper profit ( the profit being true profit or false profit depending on the buying power of paper at that point ) and those who invest in gold for its long term ability to maintain buying power, regardless of its fluctuating paper valuation.
I personally stand in both camps. For my short term buying power gains I prefer the investment vehicle of stocks; for long term preservation I'll take, and hold, bullion, regardless ( as above ) of its fluctuating fiat paper valuation.
If in a year your $300 gold goes to $900, but if the $900 that gold will get you lacks the buying power the $300 did earlier, would you be inclined to "take profits"? But suppose instead the $900 truly represents a threefold increase in buying power in one year, but you have no wish to exercise that buying power, and you additionally expect the $900 to lose all buying power, would you yet "take profits?"
Anyone feel free to comment.

Dave in CO
(Mon Jan 26 1998 02:37 - ID#215211)
If the witness is smart, he/she should give Starr all the information ASAP. 8 former bodyguards have died in the past 5 years:

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 02:42 - ID#24135)
Soros Schmoros
For Colleen

Believe Soros is an IMF/WORLD BANK hitman wannabe.

He does the dirty work - They pick up the country.

He's not as smart as you think he is - Stirling

was his really big time coup - many saw it coming -

he just played it to the hilt.

Question - Why did so many Asian countries use foreign

bank finance rather than float their own bonds

internationally. RSA uses bonds.

Probably because NY banks refused debt rollover in

1989 ( ?? ) . Now there's a case. Not much talked

about. RSA under nats then said - stuff off - we'll

pay you - slowly and when we have the dough. SET

BAD precedent - Banks wanted RSA collapse clearly.

Koreans and indonesians should come here fast and

learn how this was done.

Good news is that Mugabe in Zim is eating mud

sandwich prepared by IMF and wondering if he will

wind up like his hero Carcescu if he chokes on it.

To All

Because of recent interest in NA mines - believe I

must take a closer look. Maybe Im missing something.

Where is best place to find most recent earnings


John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 02:52 - ID#24135)
I hope he was wearing his
To All

I just read this baloney and I quote it. This is for

the comic strips.

"The Europeans added together have as much or more with public

held Gold, than the US so far, BUT!! they do not mine Gold in any

great quantity. Which leaves the BIG QUESTION OF SOUTH AFRICA!

Will the US allow the Euro's and the Chinese who have just formalized

diplomatic relations with SA, get a hold of that GOLD? I don't believe

they will. IHMO and I HOPE this scenario does NOT come about,

but "they" will forment troubles there one can begin to see the start of said caipaign, so that only little gold is mined. "

My response - In your sick DREAMS - little z.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 03:20 - ID#206358)

Tommorrow will be the last half day trading in hong kong,singapore,malaysia ,some part of asia markets dued to the chinese new year and musliman festival!The last 45 minutes from now saw slide in currencies markets.The official GOLD price again shoot up to the sky.Many players played save during this time.Predicted more cheap refinery gold will over supply.
The markets just run out of money......!!Everyone only sell...!
Any comments,welcome..!

Strad Master
(Mon Jan 26 1998 03:23 - ID#250297)
Unexpected praise...
STUDIO R.: Here I am on my usual late- night run through of the day's Kitco postings and I discover your sweet comments about my performance of the Tchaikovsky that I sent you. I'm especially honored, given your long- posted fond feelings about James Brown and that you're a fellow musician. Thanks!

Strad Master
(Mon Jan 26 1998 03:26 - ID#250297)
Bombay Gin RULES!!!
MILE SHELLER: Aha!! I knew you were a man after my own heart! Bombay Sapphire Gin is THE best gin , bar none. It's hard to decide which is better after a concert - a cold beer ( my favorite is Negra Modello ) or a Bombay Gin'n Tonic.

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 03:34 - ID#24135)
Geopolitics of gold - or the Great Chop Suey Caper.
Some interesting numbers while provocative agents

under control of agent "madman Z" plan foment all

kinds of trouble here.

1. As I reported earlier man hours lost due to strikes

are one fifth what they were 3 years ago. Hmmm.

Agents seem to have screwed up in the labour area.

2. RSA foreign debt is less than 5 per cent of

GNP. Thailand same basis 80% . S, Korea same basis

120 % . Believe agents cant spring a banking coup.

3. I know - maybe the US/candian agents ( dressed

as chinamen of course ) plan to fill these great RSA

mines with guess what CHOP SUEY. This makes as much

sense as anything else in this jerk's foul dreams.

4. To get this in perspective - made 120,000 US on

friday. Come to poppa. We're talking serious greed


5. Would be interested to know foreign debt/GNP

ratios Canada and Australia for comparison - anyone


(Mon Jan 26 1998 03:35 - ID#255284)
Jennifer, junniper...tra la la la la

Yup, and I got into trouble recently for finishing BJ's last bottle of Duty free Bombay Saphire, such a beautiful bottle, such a sweet summer drinkie...don't last as long as you'd think...

aura"g& t"

Monkee Person
(Mon Jan 26 1998 03:43 - ID#288105)
China's gold...for the number-crunchers, if you believe Xinhua

BEIJING: Chinese geologists have found 41 tonnes of gold reserves near a major gold mine in the southern province of Hunan, the Xinhua news agency said.

The team also found 150,000 tonnes of antimony and 6,000 tonnes of tungsten trioxide around the Western Hunan Gold Mine, Xinhua said in an overnight report seen on Sunday.

The new findings were estimated to have a value of more than 6 billion yuan ( US$722 million ) , the agency said.

The Western Hunan Gold Mine was the largest gold production base in southern China, and the discoveries would prolong the life of the mine by 30 years, it said. - Reuters

(Mon Jan 26 1998 03:43 - ID#255284)
S Africa taking a pounding???
Gilchrist 3 fours, 13 in one over!! go aussie glub glub glub...

Monkee Person
(Mon Jan 26 1998 03:46 - ID#288105)

BEIJING: China's central bank has no plans at present to cut the official purchase price of gold, an official of the bank's gold and silver management department said on Friday.

Despite falling world gold prices, the People's Bank of China would retain the official purchase price of 2,737 yuan ( US$329.8 ) per ounce it set last July, the official told Reuters by telephone.

"We did not issue any notice to cut the gold price, and are still using the price issued last July," he said.

He also said he was unaware of future plans to cut the price in line with lower world gold prices since last year.

Gold hit an 18- 1/2 year low of $278.50 on the 12 January morning fix in London and on Thursday was fixed at US$293.80.

The US dollar's strength and economic slumps in major gold- buying countries in Southeast Asia have cut demand for the metal.

China's state media have quoted gold industry officials as warning the country's gold mining firms to prepare for price cuts. The sector was suffering slumping profits despite record output.

China produced 166.3 tonnes of gold in 1997, up 37.9 per cent from the year before, but its gold sector posted profits of only US$6.03 million, the gold bureau of the Ministry of Metallurgical Industry said this week.

China's gold reserves stood at 12.67 million ounces at the end of 1997, unchanged from the end of the previous year, the Financial News said on Friday. - Reuters

(Mon Jan 26 1998 03:49 - ID#266105)

That was the last puzzle piece, the aerodynamics of an egg.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 03:51 - ID#244360)
To:Mr. Disney
"Is someone trying to say that the S. African gold shares will outperform the N. American or Australian? Even if they do, the political risk is high enough to discourage investments there."
It is this kind of sentiment that, as I alluded to in my posts last night, may prevent the fundamental value of RSA stocks from being reflected in their share prices. Now this doesn't mean that I think "political risk" is, or will, hold them back, but the perception of it may. In a sentiment driven market, as speculator's market is, perception is EVERYTHING. We have seen this in regard to the gold price and PERCEIVED risk of the Swiss dumping 1400 tonnes.
"politically unstable is a catch phrase used by low grade dorks..." Quite true, but it is also true that low grade dork's allocation of investments according to prepared catch phrases can profoundly effect the markets. Accordingly, the perception of risk in market itself becomes the restraint on the particular market, and in the end rendering it unsuitable for investment appreciation anyway.
This the way I think things stand now anyway. Why else DOW @7500, Japan voraciously buying up American debt, gold $300, etc. ? Thankfully, stupidity doesn't work in the long run, but how long will it be till the "long run" predominates?
I think maybe the tide is turning. So what's a good RSA stock for a 16 y.o. to put a few bucks in?

Strad Master
(Mon Jan 26 1998 03:54 - ID#250297)
Here's what I think
ALL: I suspect that our beloved BC will not last much longer as Prez - even if the subornation to commit perjury charges don't pan out. My reasoning: First a bit of historical background. Most people assume that "impeachment" can only be for a felony of some sort. Actually, it is applicable in this country to a vague somethng- or- other called "High Crimes and Misdemeanors". The only President to ever be impeached was ( if memory serves ) Andrew Jackson - impeached for firing his Secretary of War - hardly what we might consider a "High Crime and Misdemeanor". So, what it boils down to is that Congress has the sole power to define, at their discression and on a case- by- case basis, whatever they want "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" to mean. If Congress decides that BC's turning an innocent 21- year- old White House intern into his personal whore is a "High Crime and/or Misdemeanor" then that's what it is, and then they will vote to impeach. Now, you might ask, why would Congress decide to do that to the Prez - after all the Republicans don't have the majority necessary to pull it off if the Democrats don't go along. Well, consider this: have we heard ANYTHING out of the esteemed likes of Kennedy or Kerry on this sex scandal issue so far. Seems to me they are strangely silent. I think the reason is that BC has, in the last week, become a BIG liability to the Democratic Party. Remember, it was BC who essentially looted the DNC to finance his reelection campaign. Couple that with the fact that his fund raising tactics have resulted in the DNC having to give back millions in questionable contributions as well as spend more millions in defending against the many legal inquiries those questionable contributions engendered. The crucial mid- term elections are coming up right around the corner and because nobody is giving money to the DNC they are looking at a Democratic Congressional bloodbath of unimaginable scope!!! Until last week the ONLY person still able to fund- raise with any effectiveness was ( you guessed it ) BC. Now, with all these tawdry revelations driving the soccer moms in Middle America 'round the bend, that last- gasp source for funding has suddenly vanished. I think the DNC and BC's Democratic cronies will waste no time in cutting him and Hillary loose and feeding them to the Sharks, now that their usefulness has evaporated. Comments?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 03:59 - ID#266105)
every board needs a bardender

(Mon Jan 26 1998 04:19 - ID#393224)

(Mon Jan 26 1998 04:27 - ID#228283)
@Strad Master

Your poinits are well take, but IMHO "the COMEback Kid' s ego AND the leftist press will,and some are already trying, to get him off the hook. The liberals may force him out , but are faced with another liability with Al Gore. No one, yet has taken a lot of time looking at him analy. It will be interesting, no?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 04:37 - ID#266105)

(Mon Jan 26 1998 04:40 - ID#228283)
To all...

good day form the chilly midwest.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 04:41 - ID#153102)
StradMaster For the corrected record
No American President has ever been impeached.
Articles of impeachment were ratified and an impeachment trial was held for President Andrew Johnson who had the decency to veto Reconstruction Acts after the War of Northern Aggression. Johnson was not impeached by one vote.
Articles of impeachment were ratified against R Nixon, but he resigned before a trial.
High Crimes & Misdemeanors is not vague, but is a term that was used in impeachment proceedings in Merry Olde England from whence our law came. Specifics would be found in the history of English impeachment trials. An impeachment is a State trial. It is a political trial. And so you are correct to say that the key question is whether or not a political faction can be assembled in Congress large enough to vote out Articles of impeachment and a judgement of guilty in a trial. Impeachment does not get under way until everyone with a vote has agreed what person will fill the vacancy created.

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 04:42 - ID#24135)
For winston

You have a good point - North Americans are big believers

in and slaves to perceptions. Initially buying for RSA

stocks ( Im talking man in the street money ) will come from

Europe whose investors are much more savvy about RSA than

Yanks/canadians. Germans are everywhere here.

Later on Greed will kick in for Yanks - When Yanks learn

of the money others have made in these stocks - they will stop

listening to the slanted press and others ( with some agenda

of their own perhaps harking back to childhood experiences )

and come in with their ears back.

Long term for a 16 year old - half Harmony half Vaals.

DDeep - is for strong nerves only .

Owning some rsa stock is good for a 16 year old for

other reasons - when strange people come from under rocks

or from the woodwork claiming expertise when all they really

possess is mouth power he will learn to recognize this and

ignore them or dump on them as he wishes, and think for himself.

The dough is nice too.

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 04:45 - ID#24135)
On Cricket
Cricket - what cricket ??

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 05:01 - ID#24135)
Gilchrist is a devil
For Salty

Ive only gotta contend with a lightweight like z.

IMAGINE having to deal with Gilchrist

(Mon Jan 26 1998 05:01 - ID#266105)
& thanx. I sit corrected.

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 05:05 - ID#24135)
Mozel you are on target
For Mozel

I like others Im sure had forgotten that Nixon was not

impeached - thanks

Have you any info on possible re mobilization of the Army

of Northern Virginia?? I'm waiting.

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 05:07 - ID#24135)
Prokofiev of course
Prokofiev is another top gun - no mushrooms there

(Mon Jan 26 1998 05:12 - ID#340459)
What is the Spot price now ?
Can anyone post the Spot Price, Please

(Mon Jan 26 1998 05:15 - ID#26793)
London is showing 305.25

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 05:31 - ID#24135)
The Mystery Deepens
OK sportsfans -

Particularly Brother Vronsky -

The buyers of Durban deeps - have been .......

The Hong Kong Shanghai Bank via Simsom Mckee.

As I said - Im SURE their earnings cant be that

good ( i can be wrong of course ) - but I dont think

they will break even below 325$ - Any reason HBSC

would want this kind of stock so badly - and be so

sure of themselves. Its up 38% now from Friday

close here - This is spooky.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 05:41 - ID#26144)
Canadian Dollar and GOLD
It was recently conjectured on a Canadian comedy show that the Canadian
$ is clearly pegged to Bill Clintons zipper - everytime it comes down
the Candian $ loses 2 cents!! But seriously - is there anyone currency
savvy person out there who can offer me some predictions on the behavior of the Canadian$ relative to the US in the near future? I would like to
buy some physical gold, but would clearly like to buy it at the most
favourable exchange rate... Thanks.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 05:48 - ID#266105)
Mr. John. As you know, the important thing is what to
ignore. I'm supremely ignorant.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 05:54 - ID#153102)
John D
Re: Army of Northern Virginia: ragtag militias reportedly forming all over the place; no Lees or Jacksons sighted yet; no need rushing to pack for now, I'd say

Re: Bank of Hong Kong; Curious as to how you identified the actor on the stock buying; is it flight capital or gold fever in your opinion ?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 05:58 - ID#424187)
Spot GOLD 301.50 is this correct ????

(Mon Jan 26 1998 05:59 - ID#266105)

As a born and raised for thirty years before leaving
the Int'l Falls/Ft. Frances border, I found the currency
exchange rates fluctuating randomly and a bit of difference
in dialect.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:04 - ID#251268)
GC G8 305
Just got up 1 am here,beautful night in Hawaii

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:06 - ID#340459)
(Donlad_A, Thanks)
Thanks for the Price, Sorry for late reply

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:09 - ID#24135)
Hooray for the bonney blue flag ....
For Mozel

Ok glad to hear the rebs are taking their time ...

wait for the "rite momet" as we say down theah ...

Ive got some time to make some dough while they fan out.

regarding hbsc - - My Broker looks at orders placed - if broker

looks odd - - simpson mckee - he know they deal for honk honk

shang. You dont have to be 007.

This could be fiendishly clever way for banks to hedge

short position without tipping hand -

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:10 - ID#221137)
Gold price at present
Is $304.50

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:16 - ID#407135)
spot gold
I found spot gold at is there another good source when Kitco is not up to date? It is quoting $304.75

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:17 - ID#398105)
YOU RIPPER....................

US$ 310+ in New York today ????

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:18 - ID#407135)
spot gold
Sorry about last post how about

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:20 - ID#407135)
spot gold
for the third time how about

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:21 - ID#266105)
Yup, played this game. Where's the the women with no

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:22 - ID#153102)
John D
Not many know that Bonny Blue Flag song anymore. Tis a pity.

Could you figure how many short contracts Honk Honk might be hedging ?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:26 - ID#407135)

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:27 - ID#407135)
one less w I really should learn to check my typing

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:32 - ID#153102)
John D
"Fighting for our Liberty with treasure, blood, & toil" BBL

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:43 - ID#266105)
Haggis, you're quite a case.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:44 - ID#30116)
Well it's about time! Finally gold moves... up! cnbc pegs spot at $304.75 U.S. dollars..........

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:45 - ID#28594)
TZADEAK: Re gold, appreciation of...Who has it, who wants it and WHY
My position is less that China mines a little gold, rather that China has a cogent, developed policy, which she has spent the last years slowly implementing; further, that her time- table was adjusted forward because she clearly saw the destructive force of the Paper Storm. The resource China has the least of is gold. But she is a force in the energy world. And if I believe nothing else, I am now convinced of these words:

"There is one oil state that no one will play for a fool. The CBs will sell all of their gold or the nations will nationalize all mines and operate them at a loss. One way or another, most of the paper gold market will be honored. Why? Because oil will bid for gold if they do not! We are not talking about an oil embargo or rising oil prices. Indeed, oil will become very cheap for those that can supply physical gold. This deal will not require the agreement of all oil states. Only one can start this, the others will gladly follow.

A large oil producer, with plenty of reserves and unused capacity, can say: We now value gold at $10, $20 or $30,000/oz.. That is the rate we will use to sell oil. We will go to full production and offer at $10.00us/bl.. Pay us in physical gold and USD ( or EUROs ) as a 50% mix to the above rate to equal $10/bl..." Another, 1997

Frankly, I assess Europe's holding on to their gold more in the light of the "oil problem" than in the Euro context. Reading of the petty disagreements re very minor details, leads one to question the efficacy of the Union, let alone the Euro! {:- )

JOE Smith
(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:51 - ID#184165)
I hear Munni Munni bulk is approx 3.2% Ag and drills have plenty of silver in them, also the supposed electrum has turned out to be a mixture of palladium rhodium and silver of approx the same net pay as the original silver.

Have you heard anything

(Mon Jan 26 1998 06:58 - ID#251268)
Friday FND
Hang on for a wild ride the bulls is frisky and looking to throw any and all.I look for anybody who has the money ( com. ) to put the pressure on and file to take delivery.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:00 - ID#251268)
GC G8 306
movin on up!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:05 - ID#238295)
dues must be paid
After years of easy profits, looks like the shorts will finally have to pay their dues.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:05 - ID#364147)
@ Cape Breton Damage Control Team
Feb.Gold up 5.70~~~~~~Thank you Bubba!! How bout them BRONCOS!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:09 - ID#398105)
JOE Smith...........yes you are correct............Munni Munni

The Rhodium values are, I hear, VERY LARGE - up to 10 000 ppm

I should be able to get an update soonish.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:09 - ID#364147)
London GOLD--------------------------@
304.50 ( up 7 dollars )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:11 - ID#251268)
325 resistance
only minor resistance between here and 325 should steamroll right thru

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:12 - ID#333131)
On impeachment: I think you will find that impeachment means to bring a president before the Senate on charges. Johnson was impeached, he just wasn't convicted.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:13 - ID#398105)
To all............

The Munni Munni precious metals project. Principals are East Coast Mineral ( 70% ) , Legend Mining NL ( 30% ) .

This one is going to GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:14 - ID#364147)
S+P Futures are droppin
Down 10.30

Mike Sheller
(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:17 - ID#347447)
Pardon's Monday morning here - and I'm just a bit confused as to who is commenting, or implying, on SDRer's post that China is "an oil state," and a "force in the energy world."? It is my understanding from people with whom I have close contact in China that the hydrocarbon industry is far behind demand in China. There may yet be great reserves to be found and drilled, of course, but China is still in the process of developing petroleum industry infrastructure for the long term. Coal is still king as far as energy in China is concerned. Dependence upon Western technology and corporate organization for the building of power plants and other energy facilities is another factor in China's modernization. My son spent some time in Beijing and environs working for a major American Oil and Gas giant with a small team who organized the building of suburban power plants. He also brought Chinese engineers, lawyers, economists, public officials and executives to the States for a tour of our own historical public power projects and briefings for the industry. Sort of a basic education tour. No question China uses longterm thought and planning for many of the roads it must travel in the future, but it hardly qualifies as a world power in energy when it is just beginning to get a grip on creating plans for its own self maintenance. However, I may be missing something here, as I am responding to a small part of this post. And maybe the kid hasn't told the old man everything!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:22 - ID#238295)
TZADEAK: Since so many of your forecasts have been on he mark could tell us your projections for gold, the Dow, and long- term bond yields over the next few months?

Interesting that gold is doing so well this morning, although the yen is only up slightly.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:25 - ID#333131)
@ dollar watch- put on a little extra Rightguard today.
$ now stronger. Looks like its going to be a wild day in the forex and gold markets.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:32 - ID#364147)
Caper: I DO count other's items in the express lane @ Sobeys ( if they go over the limit,I get angry! ) ...Tzadeak: I forgive ya,but watch the language in the good play- by- play dude!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:33 - ID#258427)
Bart...Kitco Prices above
Bart...are we stuck again...Feb gold up $4 ...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:39 - ID#251129)
NICK@C your info Laverton Gold 01:31

Cash is minimal and debt has amassed to over $45 million, fortunately cash operating costs appear to be improving, HIGH RISK

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:39 - ID#289357)

Haggis - would you please again post the symbols for East Coast and Legend?


(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:41 - ID#284255)
"This is an extremely unfortunate circumstance," he said.
Japan's financial citadel succumbs to prosecutors
Japan's financial citadel succumbs to prosecutors

TOKYO, Jan 26 ( Reuters ) - For scandal- weary Japan, the scene was almost too familiar.

Investigators, wearing overcoats to keep out the cold on a January day, marched into a building. Inside, they searched for documents connected to a suspected case of corruption.

But Monday's raid was different. For the first time in decades, officials from the prosecutors office, 100 in all, entered the very heart of the world's second largest economy - - the Japanese Ministry of Finance.

NHK public television said prosecutors who raided the offices of the ministry's financial inspection department took at least two officials in for questioning on suspicion of taking bribes from a bank.

In the past three years, the raiding drama has been played out in Japan's largest securities house, some of its top banks, and even the Health Ministry.

Some of Japan's most powerful financiers, including the former president of Nomura Securities, the nation's biggest brokerage, have been prosecuted on various corruption charges.

But this time the institution targeted was the one in charge of Japan's national budget of over 70 trillion yen ( $600 billion ) .

And the investigation went to the very core of the hangover from Japan's bubble economy: Ministry officials are suspected of taking favours from banks trying to cover up the extent of their bad loans and dealings with corporate racketeers.

The raid extended to the floor housing the powerful banking and securities bureaux and followed reports prosecutors had targeted senior officials suspected of allowing themselves to be extravagantly wined and dined in exchange for confidential information.

Inside the ministry building, the banking section was sealed off by metal shutters. Reporters, normally allowed to roam the corridors, were shooed away.

Officials of the prosecutors office wearing earphones stood guard like secret service agents at temporary checkpoints, demanding that even ministry officials show identification.

The Finance Ministry, long considered the pinnacle of Japan's elite bureaucracy, has been under fire for years, both for allegedly failing to recognise the extent of problems inherited when asset prices collapsed in 1990 and for lax supervision of the financial firms under its control.

The list of the ministry's alleged missteps is lengthy, from its inability to prevent improper compensation of favoured clients by top brokerages in a major industry scandal in 1991 to delayed disclosure of the Daiwa Bank bond loss debacle in 1995.

It also failed to uncover huge off- book losses which helped topple ``Big Four'' brokerage Yamaichi Securities in November.

Finance Minister Hiroshi Mitsuzuka was all but lost for words at Monday's events.

"This is an extremely unfortunate circumstance, he said.
FOCUS- Indonesia in holiday lull,debt clouds darken
Analysts and brokers said the relative calm in the markets masked deep unease that the country's financial crisis could get even worse if no quick solution was found to the debt problem.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:49 - ID#258427)
Are my displays wrong ... or is the $ bouncing all over the place???

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:50 - ID#426220)

THE MAGIC PEN by Dr. Paul Hein

Bankers own the earth... Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money and control credit, and with a flick of a pen they will create enough to buy it back.

In recent years, bankers have bought the Orient. BankAmerica's share was 16 billion. J.P. Morgan kicked in 23 billion, Chase Manhattan 32 billion, and Citicorp 60 billion.

Dr. Hein paints the financial absurdity of what is transpiring in the Far- East today. To read his thought- provoking essay copy and paste the above URL to your "Go To" window.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:54 - ID#334174)
Mornin'- Back to ur Real Job as Kitty Kat Kop. In continuance of your
new position as Strong Arm for Kitco- perhaps u cud press for the
elimination of "IMHO". Overabused more than the words u used upon getting
ur wrist slapped. "IMHO"- there is no such thing as a humble Gold Bug.
Also suggest you ban Lurkers. Requirement shud be that they provide
their papers once/mo. I think they are NWO types infiltrating. It is
my opinion u got yer trainin' from the Seinfeld Soup Nazi. Cardboard up
today. Gotta secure some in my safety deposit box.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 07:57 - ID#287277)
Mike Sheller, Sorry! I only know what I read--two examples from the file

Oil and Natural Gas Onshore and offshore oil reserves in 1985 were
around 5.3 BILLION TONS
Before 1949 China imported most of its oil. During the First
Five- Year Plan it invested heavily in exploration and
well- development. In 1959 vast reserves were discovered in
Songhua Jiang- Liao He basin in northeast China. The Daqing oil
field in Heilongjiang Province became operational in 1960. Daqing
was producing about 2.3 million tons of oil by 1963, and it
continued to lead the industry through the 1970s. Further
important discoveries, including the major oil fields of Shengli,
in Shandong, and Dagang, in Tianjin, enabled China to meet
domestic needs and eliminate nearly all imports by the mid- 1960s.
In 1973, despite a steadily growing internal demand for petroleum
products, output was large enough to export 1 million tons of
crude oil to Japan. Exports increased to 6.6 million tons in 1974
and reached 13.5 millions tons in 1978. In 1985 exports of crude
oil amounted to approximately twenty million tons, roughly 16
percent of total production. The majority of 1985 exports were to
Japan, but the government also had released increasing quantities
on the spot market and sent some to Singapore for refining.

Secretara de Relaciones Exteriores
Direccin General de Anlisis Econmico

( Translated- - to state the obvious )
When extracting 3,062 mbd of total hydrocarbons in 1995, including 2,618
mbd of crude petroleum in 1995, PEMEX was placed again like the fourth
world- wide company in production, after the state companies of Saudi
Arabia, Iran and CHINA, and contributed around 5% of the total supply of
petroleum in the world. ( 6 and 7 See Graphical ) .

(Mon Jan 26 1998 08:00 - ID#238295)
the dollar
Gold still up $4, despite strong bounce in dollar. Very good action. Dollar still oversold short- term and could bounce further before turning down again.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 08:15 - ID#398105)

East Coast Minerals.........ECM
Legend Mining...............LEG

(Mon Jan 26 1998 08:29 - ID#288399)
Democrats' "silence"
Not only are the Kennedys/Kerrys/Monihans silent, but, where is Jay Rockefeller? Isn't it the Rockefellers who are always "there" for Clinton?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 08:43 - ID#197289)

Article on EMU countries gold holdings and tables for CB gold on World Gold website.

Mike Sheller
(Mon Jan 26 1998 08:48 - ID#347447)
Wonderful statistic on China Oil! Thanks. That's what I get for only seeing it from the view of folks living in China. Obviously these riches of the earth have been an important export for foreign currency, to the detriment of the domestic population ( coal very dirty and unhealthy ) . Wait til' I talk to that rotten kid. Thanks again for the perspective.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 08:54 - ID#284255)
Action in the pits
GCG8 & SIH8 down
SPH8 pushing up.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 08:54 - ID#288155)
Mike Sheller--If he (the 'kid') is anything like his dad, he is FAR from 'rotten' {:-)
Frankly, I was surprized too! But I try to start a project without bias or prejudice, grind through a lot of data- - and if fortune's with me, one starts to see coincidence, then pattern, then Possibilities!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 08:55 - ID#318118)
strong opening for nyse
Dollar up, S & P up. Nothing ever works like it is supposed to!!

WQhat exchanges is Drooy traded on?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 08:59 - ID#266105)

Matter into matters; bye, its good and gone
Maddened into madder; spurred moment into dawn
High speed chase down deadend alley; crawling in the bog
Coosbay organ; Kafkaesque horn casting coasts beneath the fog.

Don't want much from it, no just an easy yawn
Mercy's mirror is missing took where giving has all gone
No sooner once begins clock spins its broken cog
Coosbay organ; Kafkaesque horn casting coasts beneath the fog.

Echoing stardust twinkly eyes skies deep caverns borne in tides
Diary of songs past sung bobbing on the sea of sighs
Surf crashes onto shores of refuse; here's the abandoned log
Coosbay organ; Kafkaesque horn casting coasts beneath the fog.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:08 - ID#288155)
Mike Sheller--It is IMPOSSIBLE that a gentleman with your credentials could have a rotten kid {:-

Frankly, I was surprised too! Theyve kept it very quiet, which is very understandable when one analyzes the situation. I would imagine that they ( astute businessmen that they are- - albeit communist businessmen ( strange marvel of world we live in ) provided to the oil companies the same strictures outlined for the gold companies, + a Request for silence. And the oil companies can be pretty tight- lipped about things all on their own, without government prodding!

So, we have a fascinating play to watch! Front row center seats! Second act curtain, I think...

PS- - Please delete the two dots at the end of that url...then it will function. Sorry.

YellowJacket@one.forty.eight.orthereabouts Thank you for the analysis. I appreciate your input.

Voyeur Professor
(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:11 - ID#231101)
CNBC badmouthing gold

Solomon Brothers analyst Louise Yamada just explained away gold's rise to a "kickback," as she charmingly calls the gold rise. She says gold could go to $320, then collapse again.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:13 - ID#93232)
@"They call it Stormy Monday"....Bobby Blue Bland....
The "maddened" Evil Houses will write hot checks to circumvent the chaos and flux...of the killing ebb tide...beached toothless whales. Roll out great tide.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:14 - ID#318118)
Smith Barney
The rep from Smith Barney on CNBC this A.M. said gold is in a kick back rally. It wont get through $320 and then will go to new lows. What do we think about that, eh.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:16 - ID#318118)
Didn't see the 9:11 post.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:17 - ID#284255)
Greenspan rules - no "fear"
But the entire Sexgate saga could be upstaged this week, at least for the bottom- line crowd, by Alan Greenspan.

Greenspan, chairman of the Federal Reserve, makes two appearances on Capitol Hill this week, focusing heavily on the Asian economic meltdown.

"While this will not be "new news' to financial markets, the fact that Greenspan says it will be bullish."
OZ bank ANZ downgraded by Moody's
Due to Asian exposure.
Avid chatter:
I heard there is a rumour in london that UBS had such huge losses that they wanted a merger with SBC and declare the merger is so expensive...

Futures World News... *U.S. Clinton was considering repeating denials this morning of his alleged sexual relationship with Lewinsky but he was advised to do otherwise. *U.S.: House Juciciary Chairman Hyde says it is premature to discuss Clinton impeachment proceedings *U.S.: Hillary Clinton to go ahead with scheduled interview this morning on NBC,S "Today" show.

japan declared today they will reduce tax by 10% ; sell US stocks and buy japanese

HK spent 4.7 bn $ of its reserves to defend the currency

the japanese plan to reduce corporate tax from 49.98% to 40 aimed to increase stock prices till the end of the fiscal year at march 31; stocks should clime to 18000; buy japanese stocks

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:20 - ID#213265)
@the scene
tsclaw - - Works for me! Support and resistance. The US is not yet S.E. Asia where everything goes mainly down. But even there, one gets to experience 'bounces'. Anyone who thinks gold is going to move up another 25 bucks without experiencing some of these support and resistance 'bounces' at this stage of the game is not paying attention to details. Same for any of the markets 'typically'. That's why I said Friday afternoon that it looked like time for currency reversals early this week. Time for a 'bounce'. S& P has quite a long move down to go before it can be considered to be broken also. Strength/weakness in all of them will be dependent on their respective 'behaviors' at various support and resistance areas. Good trading to you.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:21 - ID#284255)
Greenspan rules - no "fear"
Newsweek's sources say the president's closest advisers think he soon may be forced to admit to more than a dozen sexual encounters with Lewinsky, who claims Clinton spoke of strains in his marriage.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:26 - ID#364147)
Caper(yer wish is my command)
IMHO is now banned at Kitco!!! Earl: Are YOU listening?..

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:29 - ID#356379)
cnbc talking heads actually attributed the early $7 rise in gold this morning

in Europe to a "flight to quality." Looks like gold is replacing the US bond market as a good place to be in turbulant times. Nice to get some decent comments for a change, even if the brokerage firm quacks later tried to mischaracterize the run- up as noted in other posts.

Richard Burke
(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:32 - ID#411318)
Old gold or Others: what is the best $US index to look at and where can it be found?

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:36 - ID#24135)
For 2bro2b

Thomos Stearns E.... could not have said it better.

For Mozel

No way ... Total confusion now - local buying has caught on.

You can only see the broker with the bid BEFORE the transaction

- after that the info dissapears. The gold index here up 10.5

per cent today. Lots of money... Oooooooo feels good.

For all

Speaking of that. Did you know that it is the habit of

wolves upon returning to their pack to gently bite the Muzzle

of their leader.

This is similar to the Mafia or Catholic Church practice of

Kissing the Ring of the Archbishop or Godfather - So perhaps

BC does not in fact see it ( BJ ) as a sexual practice at all

but merely a method of acknowledging that the is the Leader.

Do you think it'll go down?? I mean will the press buy it ??

Bill El Zebub
(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:37 - ID#261352)
@tsclaw and all morning folks.Is the expectation of a long basing period real?
Do charts show further declines to AU 250 with a long basing
period based on the past 7 months. Does the bull start in 99?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:37 - ID#228100)
Clinton Crisis
Apparently Clinton watched the Superbowl with Jesse Jackson yesterday. Given his current situation, I hope that Clinton remembers another Democrat with the experience, character, and reputation that can help him through his current crisis: Ted Kennedy.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:37 - ID#288399)
PPT working overtime

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:39 - ID#401460)
Gold Jumps
1/26/98 - - 7:00 AM

Dollar mixed; gold jumps $8.00 an ounce

Gold prices soared after rises in earlier trading in Asia, prompted by Japanese buying
spurred by a stronger yen and generally bullish sentiment because of the weaker dollar.

London dealers fixed a recommended gold price of $304.50 per ounce at midmorning, up from the closing price of $296.50 bid Thursday.

In Zurich, the bid price was $304.40, up from $296.00 late Friday.

Earlier in Hong Kong, gold rose $11.20 to close at $302.75.

Silver traded in London at $5.97 a troy ounce, up from $5.95 a troy ounce late Friday.


Bill El Zebub
(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:40 - ID#261352)
Anyone familiar with DIAMONDS ( put options with no expiration dates?)
Are they ok for novice options investor?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:42 - ID#401460)
Should we be proud or what?
1/26/98 - - 8:14 AM

Iranian papers revel in Clinton sex scandals

TEHRAN, Iran ( AP ) - Iranian newspapers reveled in the sex scandal surrounding President
Clinton, with one daily recommending today that he be given the equivalent of a chastity

``all eyes, not only of the American nation but of the world, are focused on the state of the president's past unions.''

The paper suggested that efforts to restore ties between Iran and the United States ``can
only be after the presentation of a tight iron belt to the president of the United States - with a lock and key for Hillary'' Rodham Clinton, his wife.

``Monicagate,'' the Akhbar daily dubbed the scandal over Clinton's alleged involvement with former White House intern Monica Lewinsky.

``Political analysts believe that if Clinton doesn't have any convincing answers, Monicagate is a crisis that could plunge him into a fate similar to that of the Republican president, Richard Nixon,'' the paper said. Nixon was forced to resign over Watergate.

The Tehran Times said Sunday that Clinton was ``losing credibility both at home and

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:50 - ID#426220)

Richard Burke ( $US )

You will find all you ever wanted to know about currencies... and then some at the above URL. Just copy/paste the URL to your "Go To" Internet call up window.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:52 - ID#348169)
(imho) - Sorry! - Last Time ever. Not that I used it much anyway!
Haggis - Did I hear you calling me agin' this morn with your bleats of Munni Munni? BTW Ted and All - Is IMNSHO also banned? I hope not as it is much more apropos around here. ;- )
" The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and
the intelligent are full of doubt." - - - Bertrand Russel

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:54 - ID#28593)
Economist--Jan 24-30th: Is THIS the 'Last Straw"?
"It is only a straw in the wind, but it tells a story. In 1996, when the global great and good made their annual pilgrimage to the Swiss Alps
for the Davos meeting of the World Economic Forum, the theme of the conference was "sustaining globalisation". Unsurprisingly, given the recent failure of Asia to conform with economic expectations, next week's meeting will instead be devoted to "managing volatility".

Among economists, the past six months have been unsettling. In particular, the abrupt reversals the economies that were hitherto
deemed miraculous have challenged the conventional wisdom that is it
a good thing to let capital ( paper/digital,SDRer ) move freely across

Remember the Chinese and their "Bird Cage" economy? Remember building
that cage of nice, Strong, Protective, Defensive GOLD!!!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:56 - ID#344308)

we now have all the players assembled.....

afc winning.....
klinton winning at love and losing at life.....
currency crisis worldwide.......
middle east set to explode......klinton's policies......
weather related flux kicking bootie......
yr2k uncertainty.........
un- precedented run for equities.........
un- precedented sell- off of gold.........

......stir- em- all around......and voila.......

you've got the genie out of the bottle, with one
hell of an attitude.........he is of the green jin.....
the most power- ful..........

wonder if klinton is 'dreaming of genie'?

i am..........ALLABOARD.....called the broker and put in a buy
for 5 oct98 400 or better calls......should be around $80. each....
will control 1800 oz before the day is over......

have YOU done YOUR part to help paper to its' grave, and ensure a
more secure and stable financial arena as our legacy? this is what
we should give our children...real stability...paper backed by gold!!

may soybean 5750 puts are less than 1pt- .........sparks is going
to make their report on the s american crop this week...rumored to
have larger numbers than anticipated.........largest crop ever looming
on the is great...........beans coming DOWN...

cherokee!; ) - - - wearing- options- with- pride........looking- for- more...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 09:59 - ID#411259)
..... Go Gold .....

Friday was mostly short covering. New buying today. Go Gold.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:00 - ID#411259)
..... Go Gold .....

Friday was mostly short covering. New buying today. Go Gold.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:01 - ID#340459)
Gold Price on Kitco
Can someone explain why the Bank quotes price as $306, Kitco shows 301.10
and which is the site to obtain accurate Spot prices, Thanks you very much in anticipation of your experienced response

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:05 - ID#254269)
Good morning all' WSJ print articles;

1. Banks near agreement on S. Korean debt ( page A12.
2. Beijing orders cleanup of financial markets. same page.
3. Thailand seizes control of key bank. page A12.
4. Indonesian bank plan likely to emerge soon Page A15.
5. South Korea's new leadrer sees recovery starting late 99. Page A15.
6. China names "more open " ambassador to US. Page A15.
7. Bonfire of the Presdency/ Editorial page A18.
8. Sex and the Presidency op ed piece. Page A18.
9. Possible perjury charges against Clinton still unconfirmed. Page A20.
10. Clinton Backers are launchinh counterattack. Page A20.
11. Analysts wonder if Trizec Hahn is buying high and selling low.
( Re Peter Munck and Gold ) . Page C1.
12. Investors look for turn in Asia markets. Page C1.

There's something for everyone in this list.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:05 - ID#20137)
GC G8 Feb. Gold 3027 +24 +0.8 3060 2995 46.7K
SI H8 March Silver 5900 +7 +0.1 5940 5815 13.9K
HG H8 March High Grade Copper 7995 +50 +0.6 8060 7975 7.98K
PL J8 April Platinum 3845 +13 +0.3 3870 3840 1.39K
PA H8 March Palladium 23500 +380 +1.6 23700 23400 341
Looks like strong volume in gold today. Going to be interesting can they drive it down???

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:08 - ID#24135)
Ya gotta have B@lls - miles & miles & miles of b@lls
Well well

Deeps is up another 16 % today - It has almost

doubled in a week or so. Harmony is up close to

50% in a week. Deeps takes bigger b*lls than Harmony though.

Bigger than I got.

To all nervous nellie investors - I am sure that if

you wait patiently a time will come whem your NA

stocks will outperform the South Africa. However,

when that time comes I will have sold out years ago

and been spending time with some gorgeous bimbo

on some tropical beach ( in my dreams anyway ) - more

likely losing it all back at the track.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:09 - ID#254269)
Heard on the Street; Peter Munk and trizec Hahn is featured in this WSJ

column today. Page C1. Article is worth posting if someone can do it
electronically. Questions his motives in the Barrick deal last week.
Article also mentions that Ex Bundesbank boss Karl Otto Pohl and
former Canadian P.m. Mulroney are on the board of TrizecHahn ,
Also that former U.S. President Bush is as "advisor" to Barrick.

Now I wonder, what would a retired German banker know about
US real estate properties ?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:10 - ID#33180)
Fidelity Select American Gold Fund
FSAGX top ten holdings now exclude NEM ( which is down today ) .

Top Ten Holdings as of 12/31/1997











(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:15 - ID#340459)
What is the Spot Price now
Is it 300.90 or 306 ?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:19 - ID#20137)
Bart could you please fix the pm quotes at the top of the page.


(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:20 - ID#411233)
@ MIDAS - - - - Once there click on Markets, then on
Commodity Update.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:23 - ID#364147)
MOONEY----go to your corner....................
and yes,IMNSHO is now acceptable here....

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:25 - ID#426220)

Midas__A ( Gold Price on Kitco ) :

Major Gold Trading Centers Around the World. Many Gold price links, including closing bullion and gold coin prices. Also shows live GOLD TRADING in London, Singapore, Tokyo & the COMEX. Copy/Paste above URL to you Internet "Go To" window.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:32 - ID#288399)
Gore just said the BJClinton is investing in the future of our children.....and Hillarly nods uncontrollably as billions of $ go down the drain to babysit kids after school. The bridges and roads on the way home from school may be literally crumbling, but our kids are safe in Hillary's after- school programs. Eleanor would be proud.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:32 - ID#257114)
For any interested gold bulls, CAU appears to be slowly pulling out of the station....With a full tank of gas.

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:35 - ID#24135)
In the Garden of Al-lah
for Oris

In desert countries, madmen and madwomen are highly

revered and treated with great respect and gentleness

for truly they are the children of al- lah. I must always

remember my desert training enshal- lah. If I stray, please

guide me back to the true path, my friend. Al- lah o Ak- bar.

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:36 - ID#24135)
Hillary sucks
For Schlomo

Did I say that ??

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:36 - ID#28593)
A. Goose--The Argentine CB puts
What was of most interest to me: the fact that they could NOT resist exercising and taking those profits! Now this says something quite revealing ( and critical ) about the mind- set of that Central Bank ( and perhaps many others- - to be explored! ) . ( 1 ) Is it reasonable to assume that having won big on this foray, they will now sit on those T- Bonds? I dont think so....I think success breeds excess. ( 2 ) if they want to gear the bonds, what will they do? Now THERE is something to contemplate! {:- )

2. From the Canadian Embassy ( Beijing ) 14 Golden Projects report: it would appear that the Chinese have taken steps to insure that THEIR banks are ( a ) completely private and ( b ) completely safe from any possible Y2K contamination. They are beginning to look like the worlds prima- planners!

3. Jin is a Chinese word for GOLD. My new motto is: JIN AS TONIC!!!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:45 - ID#320441)
spot quotes


John Milton. 1608- 1674.
... Round this opacous earth, this punctual spot.
... Above the smoke and stir of this dim spot

Jonathan Swift. 1667- 1745.
... could make two ears of corn, or two blades of grass, to grow upon a spot of ground where only one grew before, would deserve better of mankind,

Alexander Pope. 1688- 1744.
... Fix'd like a plant on his peculiar spot,

Oliver Wendell Holmes. 1809- - - - - .
... And twirls the spotty globe to find it;

William Shakespeare. King Henry VIII.
... A most unspotted lily shall she pass

William Shakespeare. Macbeth.
... Out, damned spot! out, I say!

... If any one attempts to haul down the American flag, shoot him on the spot.

William Cowper. 1731- 1800.
... With spots quadrangular of diamond form,

Robert Burton. 1576- 1640.
... Fabricius finds certain spots and clouds in the sun.

Ulysses S. Grant. 1822- 1885.
... Despatch to Washington. Before Spottsylvania Court House, May 11, 1864.

Omar Khayym. - - - - - 1123.
... And in your blissful errand reach the spot

Leigh Hunt. 1784- 1859.
... With spots of sunny openings, and with nooks

Edward Everett. 1794- 1865.
... memory and the name of Washington shall shed an eternal glory on the spot.

You're welcome.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:46 - ID#340459)
Thanks vronsky
The person at the Bank was quoting 306 spot, she was obviously wrom= ng

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:48 - ID#318172)
Can anyone please report on what is the real spot price of gold? ( 10:50 )

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:49 - ID#24135)
What next - zits??
For Night Writer

You literally beat the bejesus outa spots. Whew

YOu have COVERED it.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:50 - ID#262261)
HomeStake Mining Suspension
Thought you all might like to know, HomeStake Mining Corp.
Has Suspended Mining for 60 Days at its Lead South Dakota
Gold Mine.

Richard Burke
(Mon Jan 26 1998 10:56 - ID#411318)
Vronsky: thanks, I also found DXH8 at

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:02 - ID#348286)
Bart, where you you take your spot price for Gold. It's usually accurate but today it doesn't seem to jive???
Thanks for this great site.

Go Team Gold.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:06 - ID#426220)


ORACLE has discovered yet another investment vehicle, whereby the hapless Asians might have SAVED EVEN MORE of their destroyed wealth - IN FACT CONSIDERABLY MORE!: SILVER.

The report shows charts depicting the price of SILVER in the five
beleaguered currencies during the last six months: Thailand's baht, Indonesia's rupiah, Malaysia's ringgit, Philippines' peso and South Korea's won. RESULTS ARE ASTOUNDING!

Whereas GOLD was and is a bonanza for Asians, SILVER is indeed a TREASURE- HOUSE. Even the most blind and ardent adherent to paper money is forced to concede THE VISUAL PROOF OF THE SILVER SAVIOR.

To read the report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or Go To ) , then hit ENTER.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:09 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Guys used to call me "Mad Russian".
I guess because of my ability
to drink straight vodka - they
prefer to suck Bud....
May be I should move to the desert
and get some respect for free..

Looks like gold is gonna have a break
for now, we gonna have a little loss
at the end of the day. Sad, but

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:12 - ID#410114)
canada $
The Canadian $ is the worlds stromgest currecy this mourning

This confirms the move up in the PMM's

Buy gold stocks!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:16 - ID#28594)
A. Goose--Neglected to mention, in yesterdays flurry

That China has been a supplier of Japanese oil from the outset ( i.e., as soon as they had sufficient production to export ) . This gives credence to Anothers parable too: If the Chinese requested payment in T- Bonds, the Japanese would surely comply; thus, China converts oil to gold as she purchases here, there and elsewhere ( remember that according to Mercantile Exchange commentary, she has routinely purchased 200 tonnes per annum, for the last five years. That starts to add up to a respectable treasury! {:- )

....................JIN as TONIC...................

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:16 - ID#403267)
Anybody got a good spot price. Having difficulty this am.

John Disney__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:19 - ID#24135)
youre in good company
For Oris

I wasnt thinking of you actually. You

have respect in or out of the desert. You know

dmitri and igor and sergei. Ever hear sergei's

waltz suite - walzes from cinderella and war and peace

Great with a little absolute.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:22 - ID#20137)
SDRer I love it...
....................JIN as TONIC....

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:22 - ID#210253)
TrizekHahn/German Banker

TrizekHahn holds large land and development properties in suburban areas around Berlin.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:29 - ID#254269)
Danke Schoen sig_A; re your 11.22

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:29 - ID#220272)
John ( Disney )

Why would someone want to buy Durban for 3 3/4, when they can get Randgold for 2? I don't get I missing something here?

The only thing I can think of it that people don't know about Randgold, or they are spending big bucks, and Randgold usually trades fewer shares.

Does anyone know the present NAV of Randgold, the discount it is at, or a URL for S.A. quotes? Thanks.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:30 - ID#335190)
January 26, 1998
OPEC committee begins meeting on price slide

VIENNA ( Reuters ) - Oil ministers on an OPEC subcommittee began meeting on Monday to discuss an oil market slide that has cut 30 percent off prices in three months.

Iranian Oil Minister Bijan Zanganeh was chairing the talks with Kuwait's Issa al- Mazidi, Nigeria's Dan Etete and OPEC Secretary General Rilwanu Lukman, delegates said.

Indonesia's Ida Bagus Sudjana, current OPEC president, and Algerian OPEC Governor Amar Zeghbib, would consider reports prepared by the OPEC secretariat about the market's recent performance.

The meeting will examine a price collapse triggered by perceptions of global oversupply that has wrecked a month- old agreement that raised the cartel's output limits by 10 percent to 27.5 million barrels per day ( bpd ) .

The gathering has no power over Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries quotas but could decide to recommend that OPEC consider a full emergency meeting before the group's next scheduled conference in June.

Insiders say the group can do little immediately to stem the price slide, driven by powerful forces including Asian financial turmoil, extra Iraqi crude exports, sickly demand for heating oil in a warmer- than- expected winter and increased volumes from OPEC members.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:45 - ID#286234)
impeachment ( im pchmnt ) n.1. the impeaching of a public official before an appropriate tribunal. 2. ( in Congress or a state legislature ) the presentation of formal charges against a public official by the lower house, trial to be before the upper house. 3. demonstration that a witness is less worthy of belief. 4. the act of impeaching. 5. the state of being impeached. [13501400; ME empechement AF. See IMPEACH, - MENT] Copyright  1966- 1994 by Random House Inc., All Rights Reserved.
I don't think impeachment means removed from office.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:48 - ID#238422)
John Disney
John, I know it was about me.
If State of Michigan issued
me a handgun permit, it means
I am O.K.

I like Shostakovich, particularly
his 9th ( Leningrad ) Symphony. Very
Strong Music. You know, I've actually
seen him alive in Moscow, but never
had an honour to drink vodka with him.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:53 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Jonh, I mean :

I know it was NOT about me.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:53 - ID#22956)
...............morning call..................

PRECIOUS METALS: COMEX and NYMEX precious metals futures were seen

opening mostly higher, with gold getting underpinning from the

announcement that Homestake Mining Co would be cutting gold

production. The potential of cutback of gold production given the

historically low price of gold has been expected by many analysts,

and in part, has contributed to the recent rebound in prices.

February gold was seen opening up $3.50 to $4.50 an ounce from

Friday's close at $300.30. March silver was called to open

unchanged from Friday's close at $5.893 an ounce. See Full Story

at 7151478- aaf

CURRENCIES: The dollar opened US trading flat to slightly firmer

after recovering from overnight lows, but dealers said new gains

would be hard won as a sex scandal involving U.S. President Bill

Clinton commands attention. "The Clinton thing is the only thing

anyone in the market is talking about, everything else including

problems with Indonesia and Korea's debt rescheduling talks is

going to take a back seat to whatever happens in Washington," a

dealer said. The US currency kicked off the week at 1.7790 marks,

unchanged from Friday's closing level, while dollar/yen opened

slightly firmer at 125.92 after Friday's 125.65 close. See Full

Story at 7152637- e06

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:53 - ID#365216)
impeach BJ
see the following on how to help the impeachment process:


(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:54 - ID#238422)
John Disney
John, I mean :

I know it was NOT about me.

Missed "NOT" in my post...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 11:54 - ID#254269)
Dow at 7721 (up 21 points at noon EST, volume 242 million shares.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:00 - ID#22956) was not I.....................
who bought all those puts friday......but SOMEBODY did....hmmmmmmmmm... if the spread sheet does not post correctly, see for yourself at this site...scroll down to DEC 98...

Dec 1998 Underlying Futures Price = 3093 Expiration Date = 981113

Strike Call Dollar Put Dollar Volume Volume

Price Premium Value Premium Value Call Put

23000 0 0.00 80 80.00 0 0

24000 0 0.00 110 110.00 0 0

25000 6100 6100.00 200 200.00 0 0

26000 5050 5050.00 260 260.00 0 3

27000 4270 4270.00 350 350.00 0 2200

28000 3350 3350.00 500 500.00 0 1252

29000 2600 2600.00 750 750.00 0 101

30000 1890 1890.00 1000 1000.00 28 0

31000 1430 1430.00 1500 1500.00 17 0

32000 1010 1010.00 2050 2050.00 0 0

33000 700 700.00 2700 2700.00 0 0

34000 500 500.00 3470 3470.00 29 0

35000 380 380.00 4300 4300.00 19 0

36000 230 230.00 5200 5200.00 37 0

37000 170 170.00 6130 6130.00 4 0

38000 130 130.00 7100 7100.00 56 0

39000 110 110.00 8100 8100.00 1 0

40000 80 80.00 9100 9100.00 19 0

41000 60 60.00 10100 10100.00 122 0

42000 50 50.00 11100 11100.00 0 0

43000 50 50.00 12100 12100.00 0 0

44000 40 40.00 13100 13100.00 0 0

45000 30 30.00 14100 14100.00 0 0

46000 30 30.00 15100 15100.00 6 0

47000 20 20.00 16100 16100.00 0 0

I wonder why?? Anyone?? Comments?? Losers? Winners? Well?? I wonder..........



(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:00 - ID#258427)
POG just went negative ... silver flat...Whatdoesittake??

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:00 - ID#227238)
From last nite.
Myrmidon: I thought it was obvious that the issue was the relationship between added capacity and the ability service the resulting debt. There is no question that consumers derive economic benefit from the current situation and would prefer that it continue.

If the added capacity is not heavily leveraged, the producer is not under the same economic pressure and likely is able to ride out the bad times. That has not been the situation in SE Asia.

More, I think my analogy is still apt. .... If I BORROW a million to build super efficient mouse trap factory, only to find the world is flooded with mouse traps. ....... I be in trouble. Precisely because I cannot produce enough to pay the indebtedness.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:02 - ID#251268)
Dipping hard
Is it time to buy some more?GC G8 under 300

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:03 - ID#365216)
corrected impeacment website

Bart Kitner (Kitco)
(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:10 - ID#26395)
Help me out here.
Moregold: Where did you find a discrepancy? At the time of your post the quotes we were showing were accurate. In fact they've been right on all morning unless I'm missing something.

Midas: Our quote of $301 and change at the time of your post was also accurate. Whoever showed you $306 was either out to lunch or trying to sell you something.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:13 - ID#41229)
I was talking to my comodity broker last week, and they said that the banks were making some mines hedging, to lock in profits so no matter if price went lower, loan payments could still be made. Broker talked to mines reps. himself and placed puts. He said they can get out of positions, but would lose the first $13 rise from strike.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:18 - ID#249453)
The Privateer.
I am having trouble accessing the following web site: http://www.the- Have they changed their domain name recently?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:18 - ID#28585)
You heard it from me first!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:18 - ID#348129)
I was checking CNBC just before the post, they were showing 302.
while Kitco was 300.xx. Not a big difference there but the sources don't seem to match.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:22 - ID#345176)
@ Earl
I see your point, and thanks for clarifying your post. They way it was presented I did not associate the two issues together.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:23 - ID#57232)
SDRer:The_Sherlock_Holmes_Grade Investigator of Financial secrets
SDRer: Your posts are as amazing as always!

Just had Chinese new years dinner with a European businessman who knows 8 languages - - a 20 year survivor of world trade in Europe, Isreal and Asia. His career began in Israel. Has been in Asia ( Japan/Hong Kong ) for nearly 10 years until a few months ago. His summary:

1 ) China has nothing to lose by devaluing the Yuan ( SP? ) , since they are the biggest game in town - - the devaluation will scare off foreign investors only for a short time.

2 ) Shanghai is not sophisticated enough yet to handle trade with foreign countries - - complex financial arrangements, or delicate assembly of certain military, etc. items, so China still needs Hong Kong.

3 ) The IMF is not really offending the Asians all that much, because they will make promises to get the funds, as long as those promises don't involve anything substantial. I should have figured that out - - the Asians are masters at bargaining, so we do not have to feel all that guilty about the IMF's clumsy efforts. My associate was very clear that the solution to the SEAsia problem would be an Asian one, not a European or American one.

3 ) Israel is reluctant to give up certain land to the Palestinians, because that is where their defense plants are. Also - - the US is heavily involved in certain defense projects with Isreal, so the picture is more complicated that it looks to us from the other side of the ocean. Also, as you might imagine, the Israelis are very nervous about Clinton's problems, just when sensitive negotiations are going back and forth. Did you know Syria is now complaining that Clinton's problems were orchestrated by an Israeli group to disrupt peace negotiations?

I liked your comments about the China/Japan Oil/gold ( ? ) connection. Japan likes to plan years - decades or more - - in advance. If they expected disruption of Middle East oil supplies could occur ( very reasonable ) they would buy Oil from China, even if China demanded gold instead of US treasuries or other paper money. ANOTHER as you say may be alluding to this with his Oil/gold comments. Regardless of what ANOTHER is up to, his posts are from a fresh perspective - - and clues can often be found in his posts - - that lead to other investigative discoveries. The China- Japan- Oil- ( ? ) gold connection may be making the European/Arab interests very nervous.

Do you think Argentina is bankrupt? Looks like their gold reserves are history. Also - - do you think the EURO is to be firmly backed by gold like the BIS? I don't think so - - I think all we have is the discovery that Germany, France and ?Italy are not selling their gold - - just as the US is not selling gold, and may actually be buying. Please see farfel's posts about this.

My personal impression is that at the current time, the EURO central bank will have gold to "back up" their currency, just like the US dollar and the Swiss frank. There will be no threat to the US dollar until the EURO is firmly backed up by gold. Now - - I wonder - - wouldn't you expect the Asians to want a gold- backed Asian currency, after their fiasco with the unstable US dollar? That may be a biger threat to the dollar and the Euro! Interesting time we live in! Take care!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:30 - ID#251268)
Yo Dudes,
can anybody spell volativity?

Yellow Jacket__A
(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:34 - ID#185112)
John Disney: Re: your 2:42 question about where to get financial data on NA gold companies, you could start with
Click on each individual company to get a more complete data sheet than the spreadsheet numbers.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:36 - ID#28585)
Khaleej Times
January 26, 1998

U.S. mobilising' allies for attack: Iraqis sign up fir military training

WASHINGTON - The United States is seeking to mobilise allies against Iraq and to prepare them for the possibility of a military strike should
Baghdad persist in blocking the work of UN weapons inspectors, The New York Times reported yesterday.

After a 90- minute meeting on Saturday with his top military and security advisers, the White House said President Bill Clinton would launch a full
court press to create a unified front against Baghdad, making phone calls to allied leaders.

Mr Clinton met Vice- President Al Gore and other top foreign policy advisers to review the situation in Iraq and discuss "possible next steps", a White House official said. The Times said a consensus had emerged in the meeting that Iraq would never comply with the United Nations inspectors and that smart bombs and cruise missiles may be needed to destroy President Saddam Hussein's hidden potential to build crude weapons of mass destruction.

Officials and political observers here said military intervention is seen as increasingly likely as the United States begins to lose its patience with efforts by Iraq to block the work of UN weapons inspectors.

"There'll be one final round of diplomacy, and then an ultimatum, and then we'll act," said a US National Security Council official quoted in the Times yesterday.

The countdown could begin when the holy month of Ramadan ends this week, White House officials told the Times.

The United States is reportedly focusing its efforts on the permanent members of the UN Security Council, some of which have supported some of
Baghdad's positions in the UN- Iraq crisis.

Senior government officials say a military strike is needed to destroy Baghdad's ability to create nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.

Officials said they were aware that an imminent attack on Iraq might be viewed as an attempt by the Clinton administration to divert national
attention away from the sex and cover- up scandal that has gripped Washington over the past few days.

But White House spokesman Eric Rubin on Saturday refused to confirm similar reports in The Washington Post, adding that no options would be
ruled out in addressing the stand- off with Iraq.

Meanwhile, the official Iraqi Press continued yesterday to accuse the United States of fomenting an attack to deflect attention from domestic concerns, and said they are preparing to defend the country.

Iraqis began signing up for military training in droves yesterday as a British aircraft carrier joined a powerful US military task force in the Gulf amid mounting speculation of a possible US strike.

"By waging a bitter campaign of lies against Iraq, the American administration is preparing international opinion to accept a unilateral military operation against the Iraqis," wrote Ath Thawra newspaper.

Iraq dismissed yesterday as "cheap lies" remarks by a top UN arms inspector that Baghdad could be operating a secret biological weapons plant and challenged him to prove his case to the world.

"We are not surprised that such cheap lies should be issued by one of the main American officials," the Iraqi News Agency ( INA ) quoted senior official Hussam Mohammad Amin as saying. - Reuters

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:47 - ID#249147)
Asia tonight

It looks like the US is going to be real choppy and volatile. If the dollar is going to bounce as it is certainly doing now and the President wants to heat up Iraq to cool down former girl friends, the Asian flu should restart the good old PPT in the US before the end of the week. 7400 on the Dow is the level to hold. If gone - ciao

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:48 - ID#28585)
See previous posts!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:55 - ID#288140)
Censorship is a bad thing. IMHO

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:57 - ID#57232)
Saddam Hussein - what is he up to?
farfel: Your comment about Middle East gold sales for arms makes sense. Saddam stays in power by killing the opposition. And his power is being sharply limited by the US, so his options are limited. He knows he will probably die suddenly, so why not go down in a blaze of glory for the "Arab cause", because he might then be remembered favorably in the Middle Eastern history books as the one that stood up to the "Great Satan".

The problem of the United States is to neutralize him without destabilizing the Middle East, and drawing in China as the only nuclear power available to counter the power of the US. Russia's role in that area is clearly destabilizing, as they are indiscriminantly selling weapons to those that can afford it.

There is a small chance at peace in the Middle East if the Europeans and the USA take the initiative. And - - that is that the Arabs do not trust Russia or China given that their ideology is so foreign to Islam. It would be a shame for example to let overtures from the new president of Iran slip away. But - - that's probably what will happen - - given the political climate on both sides of the ocean. This is when we need a great statesman - - before the war - - not after it when much damage had been done.

Sorry for the soap boxing - - couldn't help it!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 12:59 - ID#340459)
(Bart Kitner, Thanks..)
You are Right about the Mis- Quote to me.
(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:00 - ID#431203)
The Prize
Keep your eye on the Prize: "The golden bull is born, but beware the golden calf."
(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:04 - ID#431203)
JTF & Saddam
Maybe the great statesman waiting to step forth, is you.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:05 - ID#194311)
It's a virtuous circle.
Gold rises against risks of Clinton affair

LONDON, Jan 26 ( AFP ) - The price of gold surged above 300
dollars per ounce early on Monday to show a gain of 12.75 dollars
since early on Friday in response to allegations of sex and perjury
surrounding US President Bill Clinton, analysts said.
Gold had regained its role as a haven or store of value, in
times of political uncertainty, they said.
The prise rose by 7.25 dollars in early trading on Monday to
304.75 dollars per ounce.
The sharp rally in gold prices began on Friday when the Clinton
administration became deeply embroiled in claims of sex and lies at
the White House and had continued on Monday, a precious metals
analyst at Union Bank of Switzerland ( UBS ) , Andy Smith, said.
"We are in the shadow of the Nixon affair, bond worries, the
dollar moving down, it is classic. Gold is becoming a safe- haven,"
Smith said, drawing parallels between the latest sex scandal to rock
the White House and the Watergate cover- up, which prompted the fall
of US President Richard Nixon.
The analyst said that investors had put their money into gold as
concerns of future political instability hit US bond and stock
Meanwhile, investors had been detered from investing in Asia
because of financial turmoil there and were disinclined to take up
major fresh investments in Europe because of fears surrounding the
launch of the single European currency in January 1999.
"Until now the US market was bullet- proof, but now private
investors are looking for another place to put their money.
Obviously, they can't go to Asia because of the financial crisis,
they can't go to Europe for we have slight difficulties with
monetary union, so a certain amount of money is going to the gold
market," Smith said.
Gold had also benefited from a rise in mining issues on Wall
Street late last week, which in turn had risen on stronger gold
"It is a virtuous circle," Smith said.
The analyst predicted that gold prices might rise as high as 320
dollars per ounce, before slipping back on profit- taking.
Some commentators have said that US President Bill Clinton might
face impeachment for pressuring an alleged former lover to lie under

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:12 - ID#288140)
Are you required to get a Michigan permit just to have a handgun, or did you get a CCW permit? I was thinking it might be nice to have six cartridges with gilded cases and solid gold bullets.

PS- You are OK

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:15 - ID#258129)
Gold price
Finally, it is possible to post a chart. I think I was right yesterday evening, saying that gold is forming some local top now ( if measure the price in US$ ) . Some comments about attached chart for people, who do not use "stochastics" oscillator. Area above 80 on a right scale is "sell" area, while area below 20 is a "buy" area. There are countless interpretations of stochastics chart. Personally, I usually follow a sell signal when both K and D lines turned and cross 80 level line. On December 26 I have posted earlier version of this chart here, with a "buy" message. It was almost "sell" last weekend, probably it will be really "sell" after market close today - we shall see. This message picture short time situation only and has nothing to do with long- term trend. Chart is only 60 Kb - not long to retrieve.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:15 - ID#238295)
middle ast sales?
looks like those of us waiting to increase gold mutual fund positions on weakness will soon get our chance. Unless something dramatic happens, the gold complex probably will be soft for a few days.

Farfel: Why would gold rise drmatically in the near future if middle east states are selling to finance arms purchases? I fail to see the logic.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:18 - ID#194311)
Never corner a dog.....
Clinton's a dog, just watch how he will attack....whoever.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:21 - ID#269409)
@ Counterpoint..Ultra Bearish Gold shares article
Posted Saturday by MoreGold but a necessary read for balance..Barrons

By Cheryl Strauss Einhorn

Key Commodity Indexes

After hitting a 19- year low of $279 an ounce on January 8, gold has rallied; a nice
gain Friday pushed its price to $300, about 7% higher than its level two weeks earlier.
But many analysts believe the rebound will be short- lived. Why? Because the activity
was largely technical, fund- based buying. Too, Friday's market reacted to the falling
U.S. dollar and President Clinton's latest scandal. Besides that short- term activity, and
some physical sales to India, which are expected to decline after the Chinese New
Year, the same problems that plagued gold in 1997, are likely to dog it during 1998's
first half. These include: central bank disposals, poor demand from financially worn
Asia and a sound low- inflation economic outlook that bodes better for financial than
physical assets. "The sell- side has it for the first half," says Felix Freeman, Scotia
McLeod's gold analyst. "Prices are expected to decline toward the $265 area for the
next three to four months." This is not a good sign for gold companies. Already, the
market has seen the actual failure of Rea Gold. And just last week brought the effective
failure of Pegasus Gold. Too, despite weak prices, real- estate concern TrizecHahn
decided last week to dump its 28 million- share stake in Barrick Gold. Clearly, Trizec
thought it could put its money to better use. Ostensibly, Trizec's gold- savvy chief
executive, Peter Munk, doesn't expect prices to revive soon. While gold stocks have
been battered, they're still generally overvalued. The average stock trades at a 70%
premium to its underlying net asset value. "There is only one possible recommendation
- - sell the lot,"asserts Freeman. He figures a decline to $265 an ounce would reduce
gold- stock prices another 16% , in part because the shares tend to fall by 3% for
every 1% drop in the metal's price. Even more bearish, should the stocks'current
premium shrink to, say, 5% of the value of a company's total gold reserves, Freeman
expects the stocks to skid by another 30% - 34% . "This level of short- term risk
obviates buying any of these stocks, even on a more optimistic one- year view," he
says. Furthermore, possible mine closures and re- assessments, project cancellations
and companies succumbing to debt problems will make individual stocks even more
risky. Without growth in production and reserves, it's tough to argue that these
companies' shares should be trading at a premium. And analysts estimate that the
industry can't sustain more than about six months of the current conditions without
setting back future growth by several years, owing to the need to rebuild financial
strength. So, which companies could be the next victims of the plunge in gold prices?
Most likely, those with a lot of financial leverage- debt - - on top of their operating
leverage. Financial leverage enables a company to make a bigger bet than otherwise,
but the reverse is true, too. Companies that use financial leverage are at the greatest
risk in a market downturn. Companies fitting into this category include: Echo Bay
Mines, Royal Oak, Coeur d'Alene Mines, Amax Gold and even gold major Newmont
Gold. The most leveraged - - Freeman calls them the "walking dead" - - have so much
debt that they might not be able to service their liabilities until the industry turns. Hence,
even if they have valuable mines, they still may not make it because it's unclear when
gold will strengthen significantly. For instance, Amax Gold just reported yearend
results. Total current assets: $118.6 million. Liabilities: $221 million. Net current
assets? Minus $102.4 million. Surprisingly, few companies have strong hedge positions
that could protect them from a further price decline for more than a year. Without any
hedges at current prices, 40% of gold- mine production is unprofitable. Even
companies like Homestake Mining could suffer. Homestake is one of the more
leveraged equity plays on gold prices, given the company's high costs and relatively flat
forward- production profile. It isn't likely that Homestake "will be able to post forward
growth from its current gold assets," contends ABN Amro's Tom Hinrichs. Result:
Should gold prices remain below $300, "Homestake will eventually be forced to write
down a minimum of 25% of their proven and probable reserves," he maintains. Says
Homestake's Mike Steeves, "It is our goal to address these concerns." Could any of
these companies become takeover targets? The experts don't think that will happen
soon. Says Hinrichs: "Many of these companies' chance of survival is next to nil."

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:22 - ID#269409)
@ Bill & Monica
Guess he couldn't ask her to use the "I never inhaled" line....

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:23 - ID#28585)
See previous post re: Khaleej Times: Iraq and Arab friends prepare war for war this week!!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:26 - ID#258129)
Of course, political situation can overwrite charts - for a short time usually...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:28 - ID#28585)
The State of the Intercourse speech will feature a litany of concocted economic stats but Hollywood comedy writers are optimistic some special tidbits will be offered by the Prez...namely, how many times did Lewinsky orgasm while sucking the Old Washington Post...did Clinton talk dirty throughout the entire session or simply during the foreplay...and Clinton and Lewinsky take a trip down the Hershey Highway or not?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:28 - ID#286234)
Nice to see you back. I hope you had a nice time wherever you went.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:39 - ID#28585)
Old Gold...both gold and oil sales to finance Mid- East arms purchases will soon be vastly overwhelmed by gold and oil purchases by non- Mid- East nations and financial interests once WAR gets underway.

You follow? Remember the sharp gold spike during the last Iraqui encounter. Of course, at that time, it was short and swift...and the duration of such a gold spike this time will be determined by the duration of this particular encounter. However, this time around, I feel certain Libya may enter the fray. There has been significant co- operation between the two countries least, that's what most of the Arabic newspapers are indicating.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:40 - ID#223269)
dividend info for SA stocks
Hello from Tucson, AZ. Does anyone have info on dividend declarations for South African Stocks. I suspect that VAALY, FSCNY and WDEPY are off today due to going X- dividend. Thanks

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:45 - ID#269409)
Farfel....Gold..war....what is it good for, absolutely nothin, Ugh, say it again
farfel, One problem with your 13:23. In recent times war hasn't budged Gold for more than a temporary blip, and then it tends to fall below where it was previously due to disappointment by investors that it is NOT responding to world instability.

Just look at the previous Gulf war, and all the minor actions we've become involved in over the past few years. Panama, Bosnia, et al. If Clitton bombs Iraq, we may see a one day blip in response and that'll be it.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:52 - ID#260205)
What keeps a lid on the POG
Originally posted Thu Jan 22 1998 20:34


The recent Korean gold collection campaign has been successful in accumulating a few hundred tons of the shiny stuff in very short order. Although these folks were forthright in announcing the success of this program, their intentions of what they would do with their accumulation was not as clear.

At the outset of the program, the government announced the tonnage would be sold outright with the proceeds primarily being used to shore up the ( then ) falling won. Then later when they have the bullion in hand they suggest the better part may be retained in their vaults as a metal reserve. I strongly believe they intentionally used this double- talk to work towards their advantage. Allow me to explain towards what end.

Having stated they would keep their newly- accumulated gold within the country, combined with their reassurance to overhaul their financial practices, has provided relative stability to their local currency. But in reality, they remain cash hungry and are in fact selling the bulk of the metal onto the open market in a desperate move to pay off their maturing debts that weren't covered under the recent bank credit extensions ( or perhaps just to help meet the interest payments on their extended debts. ) If true, it is indeed an ingenious ploy - well done gentlemen! Make the world think your keeping the gold ( provides won stability ) while actually using the stuff to generate cold hard cash ( to pay the bills. ) At least it's bought Korea some precious extra time to recover.

In terms of the impact on the POG in the short- term ( for the next 4- 6 weeks out - or longer if the program continues at its current success rate ) their bullion divestment program will act as a damper to prevent any significant upward price swings. IMHO they are selling gold onto the market in smaller chunks, taking advantage of upward price moves without impacting the price in a sustained negative fashion. A great way to ensure a stable cash flow.

During this period, I look forward to capitalizing on gold stock price movements as the shiny stuff continues to oscillate within the 275- 300 price range.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 13:54 - ID#28585)
Let's hope it's a quick war...however, if it turns into a multi- Mid- East nation affair ( and if chemical agents are used in a significant way ) , then a one day war is improbable. IN FACT, THE RESULTANT SCENARIO WOULD BE SCARY TO THE NTH DEGREE!

Unfortunately, the war risk this time around is very significant.

( Read the KHALEEJ TIMES OLINE every day....very good source on what the mentality is in that part of the world right now )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:00 - ID#28585)
I spoke to Chicago this morning and they are seeing NO Korean gold sales at all.

Most likely, the Korean government will accumulate gold just as Japan appears to be doing in advance of the unveiling of the Asian Monetary Union.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:05 - ID#340459)
(JTF- USA does not want peace nor Democracy in the MidEast, US Admin supports Monarchies to the hilt
and have helped crush all democratic movements there, Uncle Sam wants Control and Heavy military presence in the Region for Oil and to protect Israel and there are no higher moral values b/s that is fed constantly by media to its citizens. I have lived there for 15 years and every governament ( King/Dictator combo ) there exists with US backing except Iran /Iraq in the Gulf region. The Shah of Iran existed because of USA and after his fall, fearing a wave of anti monarchy ( thus anti US ) feeling sweeping the region, USA armed Iraq all through 1980's ( yes, IRAQ ) with money supplied by Kuwaitis and Saudis to contain Iran for the 10 year War there. When oil prices kept dropping and Iran still intact with Mullah's in control, Kuwait asked for repayment of War Loan's. Saddam went nuts because he had lost hundreds of thousands in the last 10 years to neutralize Iran on orders of the Oil Cartel and USA ( USA meanwhile was playing their own game with Mullah's via Iran/Contra. When Iraq refused to pay back Kuwait the war loans that Saddam thought would never be recalled ( as Iraq also felt that the British had carved Kuwait out of Iraq, early this century, while dividing the Trucial states upon British Withdrawal from the region ) Iraqi delegation in the Cairo Conference of 1990 were humiliated by Kuwait and Saddam, being the biggest kid on the block with aramaments wanted retailation, asked for US stand on the dispute of US Ambassador in Iraq ( I do not recall the Lady's name, who has since vanished from Foreign Policy circles ) who assured Saddam that USA will not interfere in Local Border disputes, Saddam emboldened by neutrality thought that he will Blitz in Kuwait, get his monetary and territorial demands met and planned to withdraw soon after. Hussein of Jordan was negotiating a peaceful end to it within the region, but Mubarak of Egypt would not deal as he saw his own importance grow in the whole affair, But by that time Thatcher flew in to meet Bush ensured that war should ensue, and all attempts by Hussein of Jordan to defuse the situation failed. USA has played a very complex role in the Middle East and all is definately not Kosher, On the upside They sold $ 50 to 100 Billion worth of Arms ( got rid of it's old Inventory ) . They have DELIBERATELY did not finish Saddam and kept his percieved terror alive ( Read Norman Schwarzkop's comments on this about US strategic interests ) to hold the stilleto under the Gulf Monarchies,

They billed for the War and also still charge heavily for 30,000 troop + 300 Aircraft presence.

Democracy is not the motive, No way, it is media's tale to Joe6Pack

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:10 - ID#28585)
Back and forth...back and forth...the bearish consensus on the golden ore is breaking down.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:10 - ID#372344)
@ Bumis...RE SA
Here is the URL for SA Chamber of mines lots of factual info, also, I posted a few other good links yesterday.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:13 - ID#364147)
Gee Whiz, what happened to our gold rally

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:15 - ID#426220)

The GOLD- EAGLE website has received an inordinate amount of daily accesses today from the Arab World: United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Brunei Darussalam et al. Perhaps they know more about the possible imminent military strike on IRAQ, or the REVERSE, than even CNBC.

Could it be they are "placing their bets?" Even Saddam Hussein has probably "hedged" his crazy actions in defying the Western world by buying GOLD at current low prices. Mad he is... stupid NOT.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:20 - ID#255284)
Who's at the water-hole today?
Ted G'day
Vronsky thanks for the info, now if only Bart could similarly oblige...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:20 - ID#93232)
@Ted...Condition of Studio.R upgraded to "near death"......
Oil up a buck plus. Life support for a good guy....Kervorkian on hold.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:22 - ID#23398)

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:23 - ID#224149)
Gold - Short It- - - - - Kill it NOW- - - - - Now I feel better- - - Away to buy Gold

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:24 - ID#238422)
Michigan requires every purchaser of handgun to
obtain so called Handgun Purchase Permit. It costs
5 bucks and usually no problem to obtain if you are "clean".
Permit is issued by local police or sheriff, instantly,
we have a system of instant check- out in Michigan,
no waiting period.

Our local law is pretty good in giving permits, in some
other areas I know it's some kind of problem, mainly in
large cities.

Where I live, nearly everybody got weapons, it's normal...

But CCW is a big problem, difficult to get.

I didn't try, I really don't need it.

If you buy revolver, would recommend you to get
RUGER GP100 ( 4.5" or 6" barrel ) , very solid piece,
.357 Magnum caliber.

How is the situation in California? I heard not good?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:26 - ID#364147)
This is only a joke
The whales off the coast of Lahaina were very
concerned. The whaling ships were decimating
the herds and their numbers were shrinking.
They decided to hold a convention to seek
solutions. Sam Sperm, the patriarch, said he
had an idea he would like to propose. "Let's
all of us surround the fleet, take a huge
gulp of air, dive down really deep, then come
charging to the surface, shoot our spouts,
make a huge turbulance and cause the ships
to capsize. The sailors will jump into the
ocean and we'll just gobble them all up. That
will be the end of the whaling fleet." "Wait
a minute" said Bertha, the matriarch of
the whales. "We females want to caucus this
proposal" and with that she led the girls
off a distance where they parlayed. She then
returned, raised her fin and said she wanted
to respond. "We're all in favor of the blow
job", she said, "but we don't want to swallow
the seamen."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:29 - ID#364147)
Who is "BERT @ Kitco"

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:30 - ID#238295)
The Mideast
Midas: About time someone posted the plain unvarnished truth about US policy in the Mideast. The sole objectives are to maintain control of Arab oil and support Israel. Democracy has nothing to do with it. Sadaam no worse than many others in the region. He is demonized only because he will not follow US orders.

Despite sell off gold not doing badly today considering strong bond rally.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:31 - ID#261269)
diam...I say DIAM...LOOK AT THAT
Silver the same price as palladium on Bart's display above ( in the frames version ) ...Bart...Bart ... Bart... ( and you were just saying that your quotes are....!! )

The Hatt
(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:32 - ID#294232)
The Dow has been teetering all day and the pattern of trashing Gold continues to support the equities. As usual they will drive gold down at the close and then let the Dow drop once the Gold market has closed! One would think that a pullback here is healthy and this pullback simply creates another buying opportunity.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:34 - ID#364147)
G'Day Aurator------------------Studio.R(near-death status)
Aurator: G'Day mate!....'Electric Puha' appears to be the! Studio.R: Bart ( Bert ) has declared me legally 'brain- dead' so guess yer still one step ahead of mois....shouldn't have upped the

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:36 - ID#410194)
The emotions
It's in the most turbulent times that astute traders/investors know not to get caught up in anxious trading.

People who bought Gold at the opening this morning by following an emotional recommendation paid $5 to $8 more ( ! ) than what it is trading at in late afternoon.

Date: Sun Jan 25 1998 21:13
cherokee__A ( @- - - - - - here- we- go- - - - - - denver- - - - - no- doubt- - - - - - champs- - - - soon ) ID#344308:

share- fin- - - - - -

don't you just hate- it when that happens?

re...higher prices for gold options...

check out

for friday's closing option prices....

buy gold on the opening monday......contribute to what is right....

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:37 - ID#364147)
Bein Kitco kop
BillD: Yer gettin awefully close to sayin a no- no ( go to your room for the rest of the afternoon! )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:38 - ID#372344)
@ Old Gold....
Thanks for the compliment, very generous of you, you certainly don't
see too many. I have posted my predictions for Gold in the next few months, I assume you missed them, so I will repost them.

As I predicted last week "They" were NOT going to allow Gold to close
above 300 easily, because of it's tremendous negative psychological impact on US$ and markets. I believe that the US is preparing along
with UK to "strike" Iraq to divert attention from the obvious economic
and domestic problems, but in addition IMHO this will, as it has in the
past reinforce the "stregnth" of the US and the $ for a bit, as a result
early this morning I covered my "shorts" in the US$ from last week.
Gold I believe could trade in the range of 280 to 349 in the next few months, but settling back around 325- 335, I believe that Gold is an
indicator for many things including Inflation and Deflation and so this rise of course will NOT be blamed on weak US$ or world economic "crisis" but istead on war fears. I don't believe the Arabs will take it lying down, I look for eventual "bombings" of US interests in the region,. But as I've often posted here the BIG moves in Gold will come when the US$ is or appears to be challenged as sole world reserve currency, which of
course could happen at any time, judging from the speed of this
BJ Clinton affair, and how serious above noted US interests are attacked,
and for how long. Of course the other challengers to the US$ will be the Europeans ,Euro or not, and the Asians.So depending as and when these begin to unfold so will the BIG moves in Gold. all JMHO of course.

The Hatt
(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:39 - ID#294232)
Gold Closes Dow Slips Into The Red What A Surprise!!!!!!
Spin Doctors are at work.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:40 - ID#364147)
Feb. Gold..................and what in the world is goin on?
My DBC Feb. Gold just went from - 1.80 to - .50 ( in seconds ) ...are we havib a 'major malfunction'- - - huh?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:42 - ID#364147)
I am a MORON
HAVID= stupidity......

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:43 - ID#364147)
HAVIB (darn it)
double duh

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:43 - ID#374294)
Huge gold volume last Tuesday in the Dec98 options market...
This was the closing statement of volume for gold options on Tuesday last week ( Jan 20, 1998 ) If these volume numbers are right...over 2 million in options ( call ) where snapped up...sheez! Somebody is VERY bullish!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - Begin Quote - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dec 1998 Underlying Futures Price = 2999 Expiration Date = 981113

Strike Call Dollar Put Dollar Volume Volume
Price Premium Value Premium Value Call Put
23000 0 0.00 110 110.00 0 0
24000 0 0.00 150 150.00 0 0
25000 5120 5120.00 220 220.00 0 0
26000 4310 4310.00 330 330.00 0 0
27000 3350 3350.00 430 430.00 0 3
28000 2620 2620.00 700 700.00 0 2
29000 1920 1920.00 980 980.00 3 0
30000 1390 1390.00 1390 1390.00 1000 0
31000 1000 1000.00 1960 1960.00 4 0
32000 680 680.00 2600 2600.00 220 0
33000 460 460.00 3360 3360.00 28 1
34000 330 330.00 4220 4220.00 6 1
35000 220 220.00 5120 5120.00 5675 0
36000 170 170.00 5990 5990.00 0 0
37000 130 130.00 6990 6990.00 2 0
38000 90 90.00 7990 7990.00 36 0
39000 70 70.00 8990 8990.00 0 0
40000 50 50.00 9990 9990.00 11 0
41000 40 40.00 10990 10990.00 5 0
42000 40 40.00 11990 11990.00 0 0
43000 40 40.00 12990 12990.00 0 0
44000 30 30.00 13990 13990.00 0 0
45000 30 30.00 14990 14990.00 0 0
46000 30 30.00 15990 15990.00 0 0
47000 20 20.00 16990 16990.00 0 0

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:44 - ID#286234)
Understand your permit situation, I thought that might be the case. I don't know much about current California gun regs because I haven't bought anything in a long time, not even ammo. CCW of course is still almost impossible if you don't have connections. Gold bullets sure would look cool in the cylinder of my old .357 Ruger Security Six!

Take care.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:45 - ID#93232)
@Dead Head Ted.....never trust females over 250 pounds (whales)....
Is like "bert" the sesame street variety....these volatile days are not good for most...many early- flying goldbugs splattered on today's windshield. Lay low goldbugs...too turbulent...Teddo...Great Joke!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:45 - ID#20137)
Come on Bart.
Please fix the pm quotes. I just know silver didn't close
at 232.75 up +0.05 14:33.

Thanks ( we really appreciate it when the quotes work. )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:45 - ID#348129)
TED: I think they just hired a new guy BERT at Kitco.......

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:47 - ID#364147)
Tzadeak(14:38) -----good post and see how much better they are when they -
are NOT laced with profanity.....

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:52 - ID#57232)
The US created Saddam - war and terrorsim will be the outcome
Midas_A: I am well aware that our foreign policy with Saddam has only worsened the situation. Your post only supports my premise that we need a statesman to resolve these problems in the Middle East - but that we almost certainly will not have one. So the very act of maintaining control over the Middle East oil will precipitate the next war - - what folly! It was humiliating to learn what we had done with the opposition to Saddam only a few months ago - - when all of those Kurds were left in the lurch by our CIA/government. I wonder how many operatives were assassinated by Saddam. This is part of the reason we are in the fix we are in now - - by keeping Saddam in power long enough to create more biological or chemical weapons.

My guess is that Saddam already has some terrorists in the US - - thanks to our supporting him all of these years, and he will act when he thinks he will get the most benefit from his actions. My only point is that he is like a "caged animal" at this point, and has no other solution but to goad us on. What does he have to lose?

And yes - - I do remember that silly female American ambassador to Iraq who told Saddam that we would not react if he invaded Kuwait. I think one of our American problems is that our foreign policy is no where near as good as it should be - - we are adding fuel to the fire - - and the consequences we will all regret - - in the US as well as in the Middle East.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:57 - ID#364147)
MoReGoLd + Studio.R + BERT
MoReGoLd: I liked Bart better!!...Studio.R: Ya better like it cause I stole it from some sick friend of mine in D.C ( not B.C.! ) - - - should have left his organization's disclaimer on the bottom of the joke and then the joke woulda been on

(Mon Jan 26 1998 14:57 - ID#372344)
@ SDRer... China
Great info on the Oil. Also you did not mention the fact that over
the last few years China has been arming Iran and have a close relationship which is in the interest of both and their No1 enemy the US.
However I am of the view that Chinese are exeedingly patient peoples
think of the "Chinese water torture" and of course many other examples,
so I look for them to continue to buy low especially Gold, and to continue to stregnthen themselves in every way before they move. However
seing this others in that region like the Japanese etc...will react. the
question is how? I suspect they will also force US out and form some type of alliance with Chinese, after all they all are basically same race.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:01 - ID#228100)
Midas - Enjoyed your post regarding Iraq
Are you and I the only two people to realize that there are people THAT WANT Saddam in control of Iraq? When Saddam is replaced by a moderate, Iraq will be allowed to resume large- scale oil production. Any way you look at this, it means less money in Kuwaiti and Arabian pockets.

As long as Saddam is in power, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and others want to maintain close ties with the U.S. to help protect them from the Iraqi military. This gives old Uncle Sam a lot of political influence in the area.

These political arms inspection efforts are a pure waste of time. Does anyone really believe that a dozen English- speaking foreigners are going to find anything? Suppose that you had a few trailer loads of nerve gas to hide in your home town from a group of Iraqis. You just park them on someones farm, in the woods, at a construction site, in front of WalMart, a large parking lot.. the possibilities are endless. Just dont let anyone know whats inside, and everyone will ignore them.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:03 - ID#57232)
The US is now less dependent on Middle East oil
Midas_A: Since we are talking about the folly of American policy in the Middle East, there is one other item. Our policy is not only flawed and destabilizing one of the most volatilve areas of the world - - it is obsolete! There are now many sources of oil in the world to choose from - - not just the Middle East. I don't recall the numbers, but I think we could survive without any Middle Eastern oil if we had to. Why risk WWIII when there are other sources of oil?

We would do far better if we were supporting democracies in that part of the world.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:04 - ID#364147)
I like to PARTY but isn't this a liitle extreme

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:05 - ID#288157)
JTF--Thank you for the kind words...but more like the stodgy Mycroft than the dashing Sherlock me th

1 ) China, the yuan, devaluation: Zhu Rongji spent 5 years in a labor camp being re- educated - - Cultural Revolution - - for one speech he had given way back in 1957. One might be forgiven for believing that this is a man who knows the force of words. So, having PUBLICLY stated that China will take measures to increase the competitiveness of its exports. It has no need of and will not resort to methods that would mean a devaluation of the yuan. The caveat here ( for me at any rate ) is the double- barreled currency, the yuan and the renminbi: which term did Rongji actually use? Reporters are not always punctilious about these details ( although the FT is usually reliable ) . But if he did indeed use the term yuan, then I believe he is less addressing the currency than the neighborhood audience. China keeps its word. Not an unimportant message in todays world! Political currency worth its weight in you know what!

2 ) China needs Hong Kong, China wants Hong Kong, China has Hong Kong.
But there is no harm in allowing Hong Kong to learn that paper cuts are quite painful. Gold discipline creates stable wealth. China would not be displeased if Hong Kong emerges from this time of trial more appreciative of that maxim. Because they are going to have to live by and with it.

3 ) Argentina still has plenty of PAPER money! {:- )

4 ) The trails and tribulations of the Euro is already a twelve volume saga ( and that is just for the last month! ) . Believe that neither major player wants a gold yoke round their necks: both France and Germany ( and practically everybody else slated for the Union ) has incredibly expensive welfare states to maintain, bad demographics, on ad infinitum. All they really wanted was to get out from under the wretched dollar, and thus be able to play the game the USA has played for forty years. Honest assessment : gold is a hedge against the Chinese bringing it all together or a major catastrophe- - or both. Whether they realize it or no, down the road they will be compelled to at least link the Euro to gold- - or a basket of commodities, or some real measure of something - - as will the US.
Take a look at the Davos article in your Economist this week.
Cheers! Take Care.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:07 - ID#260205)
Farfel - good point re: pending asian monetary union
One last point re: possible Korean sales before laying this topic to rest. Their primary sales rep ( DAEWOO? ) recognized the negative price implications arising from selling large quantities of gold on the market. In the same communique, they hinted that any sales would be accomplished in a "prudent" manner so as not to inordinately impact the POG.

Having said that, are there routes available to big- time sellers/buyers that permit them to execute gold sales outside/bypassing traditional markets in a manner that would keep ( at least ) the seller's identity confidential? Obviously I'm new at this golden game and do value your opinion on this topic. Thanks in advance.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:10 - ID#252432)
Mutual Fund Questions
New to PM investing, please go easy on me...

Considering the following: ever- present and worsening Mid- East crisis; Asian banking/currency crisis; Oralgate; Y2K; sooner- or- later- short- covering; Seinfeld quitting; ad nauseam... It would appear that gold is perhaps finally ready to make a comeback.

Any recommendations on which gold- related investments ( not including futures & options - i.e. AU/PM mutual funds; bullion ) would most likely benefit from:
1 - short term price spikes ?
2 - long- term upward AU movement ?

- joe

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:12 - ID#227238)
On the emotion thing.
Realistic: Couldn't agree with you more. Along with the superb insight this channel provides, it also has provided many lessons on the importance of dispassionate appraisal. ..... "If you can keep your head, when all about you are losing their's .....". .... wish I could quote the rest.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:16 - ID#410194)
What a coincidence Earl... it's exactly the "sentence quote" that I was looking for when I was writing my post but I just couldn't remember.


(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:24 - ID#227238)
DD, Harmony and Goldfields continue green in SA's. More interesting is the small NA dogs. Even that lead dog DKT has managed to hold above 1/4 .... by whole 1/16 on 277,000 shares. Remarkable. Hasn't been that high up in months. Probably suffering nose bleed. GRERF, ALTA, GGA, and GLG all hangin' in there on a crummy bullion day.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:26 - ID#372344)
@ Ted.. Thanks for kind words.Boy are you ever a good COP,posting exactly when I do twice now!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:28 - ID#238422)
Did you get Mc- Master Carr?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

When this Fed stops spoiling
my day? Guess next week...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:44 - ID#301318)
Gold on CNBC NOW!

CNBC will interview someone from the World Gold Council NOW!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:51 - ID#286279)
Nope, not yet. I haven't got a milling machine yet any way. Soon.
Gold is good.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:56 - ID#301318)
World Gold Council take

The heavy speculators were short when gold hit its 18 year low. They are now unsure on what to do next and with the President uncertainty, hence the up/down of gold recently. The big hedge funds are now going long.

CNBC will intervew Mr R. Rubin tonight at 6:30E/5:30C

(Mon Jan 26 1998 15:59 - ID#345176)
Good news
Surely it is encouraging to see the XAU in positive territory now.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:01 - ID#254269)
Dow closed at 7714 (up 13 point or 0.17%), S & P 500 down 0.57 points,

30 yr. bond at 5.887%, volume on NYSE at 544 million shares. Looks as though it couldn't decide what to do ?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:06 - ID#364147)
Tzadeak..............I do what has to be done....Robert(not Jerry)Rubin is on----
CNBC @ 6:30 ( EST ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~or did they say 7:30 ( I'm in a 'differen't 'time zone' and I sometimes get confused! ) ....anyhoo,he's on the "on the edge segment" ( this is not a joke ) .....unless you consider everthing out of the 'talkin head's' mouths,a joke....

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:10 - ID#254269)
No Korean deal yet !

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:16 - ID#426220)

THE END OF THE LINE... for the Silver Lease CON

Ted Butler is the worlds foremost expert in nuances, intricacies and ramifications of GOLD & SILVER LEASES. Many months ago he exposed the Central Banks ill use of Gold Leasing Operations. Now he shares his insightful observations regarding the Silver Loan CON.

And don't be surprised with future tactics intended to derail
what promises to be a very long and sharp price UPWARD spiral for silver.

...there is no way that the vast bulk of silver loaned can ever be returned.

That was then, this is now - the silver lease CON is over! Here's
why: the report may be read by copying & pasting the above URL to your Internet call-up window ( Location or Go To )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:19 - ID#364147)
I was right the first time(duh)
Robert Rubin is spining his tales on CNBC @ 6:30 ( EST )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:19 - ID#340459)
(Thanks, Old Gold)
Yes, Brother, Let the truth be told in age in omnipotent Hypocrisy

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:27 - ID#57232)
Your comments are appreciated
Midas_A: I apologize if I sounded like I did not appreciate your post -- I am more than a little annoyed that we have gotten ourselves into this Middle Eastern fix. Your first hand experience in the Middle East gives us much to learn from.

I find it amazing how much depth of knowledge the Kitco site has -- not only of gold -- but other matters that impinge ultimately on the value of gold.

It seems that, many of us who see the dishonesty of paper money inflation also have a more keen eye for other kinds of dishonesty.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:31 - ID#329157)
gold-cocker spaniel, vronsky? Is it smokin' ;)

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:31 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 26.00

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:32 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .257

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:33 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 49.52

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:38 - ID#329157)
TEST! eagle cocker spaniel cocker spaniel alsatian poodle owl vulture
cocker spaniel
cocker spaniel

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:42 - ID#329157)
Psst... don't say b_e_a_g_l_e 'cos Kitco transmogrifies it to cocker spaniel!
Gold cocker spaniel
Gold B_e_a_g_l_e

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:50 - ID#246224)
Churning is one way to make money, eh?
Not that the DOW was 'undecided', but that in spite of a initial strong impulse of buying in the first 2 hours we saw continued selling into this type of demand. The result was that the market rose rapidly ( +75 pts ) then see-saw'ed its way back down to +13 points. 554 Million shares trade hands and +13 points. The action generated TONNES of money for brokerages and virtually nothing in market direction.

From strong hands to weak ones. A continued shifting of shaky shares into the hands of those who 'believe'. Observe the oscillatory pattern over the past few months between 7500 and 8100. People ARE making money on this behavior, but it is not the 'buy and hold' crowd. It is the traders. Essential the market is range bound in terms of those who 'fear' and those who 'covet'. Like a civil war battle field we see charge and retreat day after day, month after month. A war of attrition. This is a truly unique conflagration given the stupendously bad news we have in Asia. Part of the reason may just be that there are no 'real' alternatives to the US$, T/Bonds and equities markets ( in the eyes of the professionals ) .

So here's a question: If money is piled up like a heap in US$, Bonds and Stox, and if there is the perception that there is 'no other place for money to go', then will the US markets crash??? Will 'money' develop alternative 'routes and destinations'? And if so then what shall they be???

Do professionals know that if they move massive amounts of money into small markets they will ultimately destroy themselves? Possibly even intuitively? Big money has to worry about its own overwhelming presence in markets ( not something I think of much when investing ) . If managers decided to basicly move out of stox in a big way wouldn't they be ever so concerned about what their movements would do to the markets they were still invested in??? One simply can not redeem 100 million shares in an hour or a day or even a week without destroying a market.

The number of institutional/fund managers equal about 500 people who control 1/2 the shares and bonds in existence. They control these markets and are controlled by them. Never has so much rested on the shoulders of so few. The automatic trading systems which execute their intentions also rationally and systematicly move and are moved by the markets. These people are the markets of today.

BB tomorrow.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:55 - ID#288295)
Average Joe @ gold mutual funds
The absolute STAR of open-end mutual funds after the gold bottom in '93 was Lexington Strategic Investments, which invests 100% ( I believe ) in South African gold mining companies. Also you might want to look at the Midas fund and Invesco Gold for comparison of performance.In closed-end funds, there is one selling on the Toronto Exchange called BGR Precious Metals ( symbol BPT.A ) which invests only in junior and micro cap mining companies.I havent't looked at the charts of any of these lately, but its likely the Lexington Fund and BGR have been hit very hard, so are pretty good bottom-fishing values. I would bet that these two will do VERY well in a new gold bull market.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:55 - ID#28594)
The Living Dead
Jakarta and Seoul

Here is an illuminating exercise, recommended for those who think the worst of the Asian financial crisis is past. Visit the Hong Kong headquarters of Peregrine, the investment bank that collapsed earlier this month, and observe the walls stripped of pictures and empty rooms so efficiently scoured by the liquidators. Then visit the Jakarta offices of Infiniti Wahana, the holding company for Steady Safe, an Idonesian taxicab firm whose stated inability to pay back a $350m loan from Peregrine was the final nail in the bank's coffin. The wood gleams, the pictures shine, the office bustles: business as usual.

When a company in Europe or America cannot pay its debt, its creditors force it into bankruptcy, where a judge can fix a repayment plan or liquidate the firm and divide up the assets. But in Asia's most troubled economies, it is more likely to be the CREDITORS who end up in trouble.

In Indonesia, as western banks are discovering to their horror, it is almost impossible to force a debtor into bankruptcy. In South Korea, filing bankruptcy papers is easy--but months of inaction inevitably follow. In Thailand and the Philippines, the best a lender can expect is "Sorry". As Asia begins to clean up from the financial meltdown of 1997, this lack of legal process is becoming a serious hindrance. So long as insolvent companies can keep operating with impunity, the restructuring
of Asia's over-indebted corporate sector will be indefinitely delayed.

The article continues...but you get the picture.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 16:55 - ID#329157)
A serious question
If the server changes b_e_a_g_l_e into cocker_spaniel, what if it was addding or subtracting 'not's or changing 'b_e_a_r' into 'b_u_l_l', or swapping plus and minus signs, or.. you get the idea

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:05 - ID#28585)
Apparently, the networks are expecting domestic ratings that will rival the Oscar awards when Clinton presents, "THE STATE OF THE INTERCOURSE" tomorrow night...the public is optimistic Clinton will provide spicy details concerning Lewinsky's toothy treats...not to mention additional gems concerning Clinton latest oral prospects ( rumors that the Spice Girls might be on the list?? ) ....and the networks are counting on the Prez to deliver a sensational climax for all the females in the audience.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:10 - ID#344308)

realistic----on your emotion post-----could'nt dis-agree with you more..
re--gold and where it stands historically relative to current history
and the current state of affairs of the your eyes....

relative to options------if you had purchased oct98 400 calls this
morning for $80.....their value decreased by approx $10-$15 today...

whhhhhoooooooooooooooooo-------thank god for my sons piggy bank...

these options are SPECULATIVE, part of a long term plan, and tickets
for a show that you will miss.....when the day comes when we get a
huge surge in prices.....with-in 2 will not be able
to afford to jump on the option train.....there may be NO sellers
at the market for many deliverable ounces per outstanding contract?

buying gold is participating in some-thing very elemental.....even if
purchased at the top of the will not burn when the
flame-thrower washes over all the is self-preservation,
continuity for your family, and most of all, hope....

...........the hope for
........................the righting of a monumental wrong.......
...........the de-coupling of curriencies from gold and silver.......

this imnsfho is why we are at, where we are deep sh!t!


there is the answer to the question...what brought the world to this point???


this is what allowed the speculators and bankers to write their
own checks for the ful-fillment, and en-richment, of the
nwo-for-lunch-bunch------at the expense of the world.....

realistic---you should be honored to be able to hear these words, this time in history.......

.......BUY GOLD TODAY.......physical and options.....immmf
this is what is called buying hand-over-fist------not to worry....
their fist-on-your-head is coming soon....a golden helmet en-crusted
with silver spikes awaits.....what crown do you wear? .........
me-thinks it is from some-others view.......ta-bueno......
don't mortgage the house, or sell the farm....with-in budgetary
constraints....stick to a plan.....stalk the prey..........

i'll continue buying options ( tickets ) till hell freezes over........
and i'll look down on 99.99999% of the world's peopleo population
when ( very soon ) the bon-fire is'll probably think
me will be so.....crazed at that time i'll be...
the policies of man....manipulation......control......the nwo,
gatt, nafta, gays, sig's, imf, cb's, fed, tri-lateral comm, bildenburgers, masons...........who cares who.....they MUST GO.....
there is only one way to em-power our-selves relative to these
super-power--sig's-- agencies.......BUY GOLD........this is our only method....along with making available to the peopleo, the TRUTH.....

this is the gold as often as finacially plausible.... will soften the coming blows to humanity......

for the benefit of all, for what is coming....
.......'something wicked this way comes'......the cricket will not be
able to enter the ant colony......there will be too many crickets....
can you chirp like a cricket? try it.....chhhhiiiiiiirrrrppppppp....
there, you see, you're more cricket than you knew.....back to preparing
for the LONG winter ahead....seen any golden leaves?? mmm.. mmm.. good!


(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:18 - ID#28594)
Losses as big as the Alps...
The real UBS story:
"It is not just Japanese taxpayers who are picking up the bill for Japan's sick banks. The Swiss, it appears, have been covering part of the cost.

It seems that UBS, Switzerland's biggest bank, saw huge profit potential last autumn in convertible preference shares issued by Japanese banks. Sources at UBS say the bank's DERIVATIVES traders bought upwards of Y150 billion ( $1.2billion ) of these instruments, which the Japances issued to bolster their capital. UBS then sold off the debt component of these securities. What was left was essentially a put option, which gave investors the right to force UBS to buy the bank's shares at a set price. That price was to fall if bank-share prices edged down, supposedly protecting UBS from huge losses.

If bank shares had fallen moderately, this apparently low-risk strategy would have succeeded. But it went horribly wrong when the shares collapsed. UBS tried to hedge part of its risk by selling bank shares, but it could not sell enough because, as Japan's banking crisis worsened in November, some bank's shares did not trade for days at a time. As a result, UBS sources say, the bank's losses on these instruments alone may reach SF1 billion ( $673m ) .

A UBS spokeswoman says that this figure is "out of proportion", although she declined to provide specific numbers. That Japanese bank shares have since risen a bit will bring scant comfort in to executives in Zurich. Its losses in Tokyo are among the factors that forced UBS to accept a takeover by its smaller rival, Swiss Bank Corporation, last month."

Davos is going to be a melee! Count on it!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:25 - ID#344308)

gold on cnbc now!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:26 - ID#254269)
@ Farfel; The Q & A session after State of the Union should be pretty interesting !

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:31 - ID#23398)

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:34 - ID#252150)
It really is amazing how easily the State manipulated/controlled media

convinced the avg American that Saddam was such a great threat to world peace & freedom. Right up there with Hitler.

Some of the propaganda that came out, such as the Iraqi soldiers unpluging the incubators, was so outlandish & ridiculous that it boggles the mind to think that reasonable & intelligent people actually believed it. From that point on I lost all confidence that the average individual in the western democracies had the ability to think & reason for him/herself.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:37 - ID#333232)
Latest quote: "The whole affair leaves a bad taste in my mouth"
Sorry Bart.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:44 - ID#372344)
@ ABX up 2.62%, BIG Volume, Placer up 3.70% not bad on down Gold day.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:45 - ID#372344)
@ China and Taiwan , Kissy kiss and make up?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:46 - ID#57232)
Markets rather quiet after the revelations that displaced the Pope!
All: I guess some of us were expecting panic in the markets after the Monicagate revelations. I have made investment decisions based on what I thought were significant events, only to find the market ignored them, or waited till another time to react. The market will respond eventually, but only when it wants to. If this matter is not resolved quickly, we will have a rerun of the Watergate episode.

After such a massive runup on Friday, gold/gold stocks did remarkably well. Usually with the

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:46 - ID#252150)
I'm in full agreement with your assessment of how closely Au is tied to the $U.S. I might be a little more bearish than you. I feel that except for brief pullbacks the $ will remain strong unless/until the EU is perceived to offer competition as a safe haven. In the meantime I feel that the $ can get to 140-150 yen. If this happens then Au could get down to 250-60. I hope that I'm wrong, unless of course I once again short the JY.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:47 - ID#57232)
Markets rather quiet after the revelations that displaced the Pope!
All: I guess some of us were expecting panic in the markets after the Monicagate revelations. I have made investment decisions based on what I thought were significant events, only to find the market ignored them, or waited till another time to react. The market will respond eventually, but only when it wants to. If this matter is not resolved quickly, we will have a rerun of the Watergate episode.

After such a massive runup on Friday, gold/gold stocks did remarkably well. Usually with the

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:50 - ID#57232)
Markets rather quiet after the revelations that displaced the Pope!
All: I guess some of us were expecting panic in the markets after the Monicagate revelations. I have made investment decisions based on what I thought were significant events, only to find the market ignored them, or waited till another time to react. The market will respond eventually, but only when it wants to. If this matter is not resolved quickly, we will have a rerun of the Watergate episode.

After such a massive runup on Friday, gold/gold stocks did remarkably well. Usually with the 'one night stand' twitches that are temporary only due to momentary panics, gold goes up one day, only to drop most of the way back down the next day. Not this time!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:54 - ID#57232)
Sorry about that! Not my day -- some of my first two posts lies somewhere in the aether!

Did anyone notice that the Oil/Defense stocks went up at the end of the day?

I wonder why!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:55 - ID#210114)
What now?!
Does anyone know the reason why the gold price died AGAIN? Everytime there is even a sniff of a rally it caves in. Gold did not hold above $US 300 for even a full trading day.

Love to know why. Anyone got the answers?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:56 - ID#238422)
Saddam is mudak - just a thought. Go gold.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:56 - ID#258129)
Gold price
I have updated a chart, posted at 13:15 with today's data. Looks like "sell" signal to me

(Mon Jan 26 1998 17:57 - ID#258129)
Nothing happened to Gold. Simply $ is up again

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:02 - ID#261267)
I guess...

everyone here is almost always expecting panic due to just about anything
in the universe! According to the pros here, the rally has starting for about 2 years now from just about every other peice of news tidbit!
Rally-schmally! This place rewrites the book on hype and speculation!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:06 - ID#288157)
A small contribution to the discussion of our (US) leaders & foreign policy...

from another time, another place
Xun Kuang:
"Some men of the present generation cloak pernicious persuasions in beautiful language and present elegantly composed but treacherous doctrines and so create disorder and anarchy in the world.

Such men are personally insidious and ostentatious, conceited and vulgar, yet they spread through the whole world their confused ignorance of wherein lies the distinction between right and wrong and between order and anarchy."

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:09 - ID#238422)
Spock, it's show time.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:12 - ID#238422)
I'm not in panic.
What can I do for you?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:14 - ID#288295)
oris @ Saddam
Or, perhaps the character Nostradamus calls Mabus ( Read it in a mirror )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:14 - ID#410194)
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Fell 332 troy ounces to 441,905

Silver: Plunged 1,321,536 ( ! ) troy ounces to 105,383,579 -A new 13 year low

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:16 - ID#269409)
@ CJS1......Conspiracies and Beatle albums....
CJ re your 16:42 and 16:55, keep in mind that "B-E-A-G-L-E" without the vowels spells LGB backwards.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:18 - ID#288295)

My Durban Deep was up another 8% today, thank you very much...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:18 - ID#373346)
Bfiler and Average Joe

I don't claim to be a doomsdayer but depending on your type
of investment style and time schedule it sure makes sense
to put some of your money in to gold mutual funds and select
stocks. I say you've got to be REALLY long term to match
the gains in regular equities as has occurred during the last
three years.

My advice: Dollar cost average into gold. Whether we are
at the bottom or not who knows. I do know this cycle is coming
to a close.

As with all discussions, weed through to see what interests
you. I find some very informative url's and comments.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:21 - ID#28585)
Listen, BFILER...just close out your gold short position and sell your bonds now. There might be a massive "unsettling" market move soon and we do not want you to get hurt.

If you follow our advice, you know you'll sleep a lot better.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:22 - ID#288295)
AverageJoe @ gold mutual funds
Chart of Lexington Strategic Investment

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:25 - ID#288295)
AverageJoe @ gold mutual funds
Let's try again:Lexington Strategic Investment

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:28 - ID#252127)
Wheaton River Nets $9.7 Million On Gold Repurchase Buy small, think big....... Or force the big companies to do the same. Er, the ones that can.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:28 - ID#269409)
@ Realistic....Silver COMEX drawdown
At this rate we should see a break below 100M within the next two weeks or so eh? Should be good for a 30 or 40 cent move in Silver once that psychological level is breached don't you think? And how about Vronsky's site link ( which didn't work ) that was suppsoed to tell us about the borrowed Silver that doesn't exist. Hmmmmm, could be some nice price hikes ahead...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:31 - ID#288295)
Can't get the URL to work directly - but use the Stockmaster link and fund symbol isSTIVX

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:32 - ID#28585)
If silver stocks fall below 100M, then every Tom, Dick, and Harry will jump into silver.

The short squeeze would be overwhelming!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:34 - ID#340459)
(Old Gold & James, you guys are Right On)Rubin/CNBC slipped by saying our /IMF motive is to create
Instability in Indonesia, then with an embarrased smile I maen Stability

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:34 - ID#269409)
@ Puetz, Cherokee
Does my desk calendar decieve me or are we in the final week of January, 1998? If Fornigate only gives us a tiny market blip.... wherefore the stocks and bonds meltdown? Staglfation gents, that's what's ahead, stagflation...but no crash in sight

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:35 - ID#398105) yourself a favour Mate.........

Buy a boomerang, face north and throw it away, then turn south...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:38 - ID#398105)
IMF...........interesting article on the news.......

IMF "cannot" get their forward planning scenarios properly defined...impacts on their loaning further down the track...Soros quest for a "NEW" Central Bank ?!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:38 - ID#269409)
@ farfel....Silver ICBM
I like it...and with every Silver cloud there may be a Gold lining...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:39 - ID#269409)
@ Haggis...Bfiler
Actually that's Bill Clinton posting under a guise. His real handle is "D" filer...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:44 - ID#340459)
(@JTF) An renowned Indian Astrologer predicted(when G was 279) that the
Gold prices will rise Sharply in March '98. I dont personally believe in Astrology, just FYI

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:53 - ID#398105)
LGB...........................Bfiler, do you recon.....

If Bfiler is Old Slick, he MUST be doing something else besides giving us the wisdom of his knowledge......or is he home alone?!

It must be good to have a simple outlook on life?!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:55 - ID#284246)
Silver lease rates

Silver lease rates 1-mth 9.88%!! Check it out on this site.

Dave in CO
(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:55 - ID#215211)
Think you may be on to something there. I've never heard anyone use the phrase "there's no there there" except people who do damage control for Clinton and Bfiler. Or maybe he's just another Clinton sucker, no pun intended.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 18:57 - ID#426220)
THE MAGIC PEN by Dr. Paul Hein

Bankers own the earth... Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money and control credit, and with a flick of a pen they will create enough to buy it back.

In recent years, bankers have bought the Orient. BankAmerica's share was 16 billion. J.P. Morgan kicked in 23 billion, Chase Manhattan 32 billion, and Citicorp 60 billion.

Dr. Hein paints the financial absurdity of what is transpiring in the Far-East today. To read his thought-provoking essay copy and paste the above URL to your "Go To" window.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:00 - ID#255226)
March Silver is following the path outlined here ( 1/10/98 15:24 ) , the wave 4 low turned out to be 5.40 ( day charts ) . Silver should begin to accelerate it's move up over the next 2-4 days. Objective 7.40 - 7.60 by the 3rd or 4th week of Feb.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:14 - ID#206358)
News from indonesia...tensions built up!
copy from reuter:

JAKARTA -- Indonesia's ethnic Chinese, traditionally a target of resentment
during hard times,
say they are growing more fearful of becoming scapegoats for the country's
economic crisis.

The Chinese control much of the commercial trade in the huge archipelago of
200 million people,
and many say they are "very restless" over the sharp downturn in Indonesia's

"Politicians and ordinary people don't see this economic crisis as a natural
crisis, but as being created
by Chinese big business," said one leading businessman, who spoke on
condition of anonymity. "If
the leaders want to clean their hands, they can blame the Chinese."

"The Chinese are very restless," he added. "We've seen what can happen

The so-called overseas Chinese are linked throughout Asia by a vast web of
family and business
connections, and are used to making money in good times and to keeping their
heads down in times
of trouble.

Chinese businesses are prime targets of popular resentment during times of
unrest in Indonesia, a
result of envy over their economic position and the fact that the Chinese are
mainly Christians and
Buddhists in an overwhelmingly Muslim nation.

So far, the only disturbances over soaring food prices, rising unemployment
and generally poor
economic conditions have come in populous East Java, where mobs looted
shops in several towns
or forced owners to sell at the prices that existed before the economic crisis
hit in the middle of last

"I have lived here for 20 years and we have never had trouble like this," a
Chinese woman shop
owner in Muncar, in East Java, said recently. "The Chinese, well, we are still
wary and looking out
for trouble."

During the rioting, some shop-owners pasted signs on their doors that read
"Muslims" in an apparent
attempt to distinguish their stores from those owned by ethnic Chinese, who
make up four percent of
the population.

A local farmer, echoing the feeling of many of the nation's poor, accused
Chinese storekeepers of
hoarding goods to drive up prices. Ethnic Chinese say the same accusations
are heard in the
mosques, further stoking ethnic and religious differences.

"Anti-Chinese riots have happened in the past in Indonesia," said Bruce Gale,
an analyst at the
Political and Economic Risk Consultancy, based in Singapore. "And because
they happen to be the
shopkeepers who will be putting up the prices in the next few months, it stands
to reason that they
may be targeted."

Chinese businessmen acknowledge that much of the trade in essential
commodities is in their hands,
but say they are looking to survive the economic crisis, not take advantage of

But Chinese shop owners here say they have weathered past crises and are
prepared to weather this
one, even if rioters return.

"They come, we go," a Chinese businesswoman said of the mobs. "They pull
back, we come back.
We get used to this kind of situation."

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:22 - ID#93232)'s a general obligation kinda' thing....
If everything goes just right.....churn those accounts, that phone....the partners might let you work with the boys in public finance or m&a....keep it up, it, baby.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:26 - ID#260194)
Silver Bars
Vollmer's ( Bloomington,IL ) is selling 100 0z Engelhard silver bars
at spot. Buy 5 or more they pay the shipping.

I've bought gold from them in the past and have found then to be
reliable, honest and fast.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:28 - ID#34883)
Thomas Jefferson/Coinage...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:33 - ID#288295)
Hggis @ Silver / ECM
Haggis - I intend to due my due diligence on this one, but since silver is the discussion de jour, could you please ( again ) pass on a little of your wisdom on East Coast Minerals ( ECM ) re the Munni Munni strike - impact on the company, timing, etc.I've perhaps missed some important things already posted, but I get the feeling from the postings which I have caught, that you think this is a really hot property, something a silver bug ought to pay attention to.TIA!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:38 - ID#30116)
The old EBN site has spot gold up $1.50 at $298.25.

The Prez. issues a 'tough' statement ( as the White House says, "Before other women come forward..." )

Gold then falls.

What's with this "other women coming forward..." stuff??? When did this guy have the time to govern??? The enquirer wants to know....

So, will Iraq be the distraction? If so, the mellow yellow will rise in anticipation, ( There's that song again! ) , sort of like oil today...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:43 - ID#344308)

the song----- mellow-yellow------------by donovan...
they call me nice.....

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:46 - ID#344308)

gold up $1.90 ------to 299.00-----per wine-spectator.....

go baby go.......just those under-dog bronco's........we
knew who would win.....yes, and so did kitco.....

gold is fixing to blow-the-pundits-minds.......immb
as did denver......

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:47 - ID#57232)
Take Care!
Jin: Hope all is well -- It's human nature to blame those minorities who have lesser problems because they were harder working, more frugal and saved more. I hope that you are as low profile as you can be.

It's always a pleasure to hear from you ----

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:47 - ID#288337)
He governs between hummers. You know...govern...hummer...govern...hummer.
On and on it goes.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:49 - ID#288337)
Mellow Yellow
Refers to the scraped insides of banaa peels, dried, then ignited and inhaled. Never got off...prefer acapulco gold when possible. Go Gold!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:51 - ID#93232)
@cherOkee....some bugs don't fly.....I.B. Scarabman, III.....
The last sighting and hearing of the Mellow Hurdy Yellow Gurdy Man...Edgewise, Jon Hockenberry...last cancelled...short run...pissed me all over...I got so incensed...MSNBC banned me from their billboard...Hockenberry's the only real guy MSNBC's got.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:54 - ID#33180)
Arab interest in gold? Ramadan ended yesterday
Vronsky: During the lunar holy month of Ramadan, Muslims do not trade the markets, eat, or otherwise enjoy themselves during daylight hours. Today was the first day in four weeks they could trade gold and so many probably took a look at your website after the long fast. There may be no more to it than that. In olden days when high oil prices meant profits went into gold, the end of Ramadan brought a sudden spurt in gold buying. That has not been true for the last few years, however.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:54 - ID#426220)

Now this is the Law of the Jungle -- as old and as true as the sky;
And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper,
but the Wolf that shall break it must die.

For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf,
and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.

From The Law of the Jungle by RUDYARD KIPLING

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:59 - ID#228128)
Myrmidon - Why invest in indonesia?
In addition to all the other negatives that others have pointed out about Indonesia, my recollection of the Bre-x affair involves a dirty little end run attempt by the Indonesian government. Just before the scandle broke and people still thought Bre-X contained mega tonnes of gold, the Indonesian government stepped forward and said, oh by the way we own half of the mine. The way it works as far as they are concerned is that investors can take the risk and they can keep the profits. I wouldn't invest a nickle in any mining venture in that country.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 19:59 - ID#364147)
Steve..................................and Acapulco GOLD
You da man~~~~~~~~~~

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:00 - ID#93232)
@vronsky...golden wolves.....hooowwwwllllllll......

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:02 - ID#57232)
Thanks for your 18:44
Midas: Thanks. I do not understand the Astrology stuff either -- too nebulous for my training. But -- I am frustrated because I know that underneath all of that mystery is a set of basic rules. It may be the neutrino flux from the stars, galactic center, and the sun -- but I really don't know -- whatever it is is subtle and affects human nature. Understanding of Astrology on a quantitative basis may lead to the Physics discovery of the century -- and as Edward R. Dewey -- the founder of the Foundation of the Study of Cycles -- said:

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:04 - ID#57232)
Thanks for your 18:44 -- trying again!
Midas: Thanks. I do not understand the Astrology stuff either -- too nebulous for my training. But -- I am frustrated because I know that underneath all of that mystery is a set of basic rules. It may be the neutrino flux from the stars, galactic center, and the sun -- but I really don't know -- whatever it is is subtle and affects human nature. Understanding of Astrology on a quantitative basis may lead to the Physics discovery of the century -- and as Edward R. Dewey -- the founder of the Foundation of the Study of Cycles -- said:

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:09 - ID#426220)


...that the worst lies ahead for the U.S. markets, with the mid-January to mid-Feb. break looming. Ideally the first week of February could mark real trouble for this market.

As far as Microsoft ( MSFT ) itself, we are not bearish, just short.

...but it's the daily pattern that probably is showing the impotency of the Bulls, since they should have been able to bust it out above the gently sloping declining tops, and they failed.

For full report copy/paste above URL to your Go To Internet window.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:13 - ID#373346)
Kaplan Site:

On Friday, total open interest in COMEX gold declined by only 977 contracts on a day in which the active contract gained nine dollars, which is only about 10% of the normal amount of short covering to be expected and is therefore very strongly bullish, indicating that 90% of the rally was caused by fresh buying. Interestingly, the release of this report early Monday afternoon seemed to trigger a decline in the gold price ( I have no idea why ) . Gold is just above its fifty-day moving average, which represents an important technical point, and is also just above the critical downward trendline formed by connecting the descending peaks on a weekly chart dating back to the first week of February 1996.

Looks like the shorts had a very long weekend. Not to mention the others that spent the last few days sweating!!

Shorts are in trouble, physical demand for gold strong coupled with uncertainty.

Quixotic 1
(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:13 - ID#176235)

FJ Vollmer & Co.
*** Nomination for the Good Guy List***
I have been doing business with Vollmers for about 9 years, mostly with firearms. They always seem to have best price on bullion. They carry a small selection of high grade MS $20 Gold. FWIW, I always call them before any purchase, to check price spreads and availability. My only criticism of Vollmers is, they primarily deal in Eagles. Maples and fractionals are not always on hand.
Gold for the good guysGMJ

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:13 - ID#57232)
Thanks for your 18:44 -- trying for the third time!
Midas: Thanks. I do not understand the Astrology stuff either -- too nebulous for my training. But -- I am frustrated because I know that underneath all of that mystery is a set of basic rules. It may be the neutrino flux from the stars, galactic center, and the sun -- but I really don't know -- whatever it is is subtle and affects human nature. Understanding of Astrology on a quantitative basis may lead to the Physics discovery of the century -- and as Edward R. Dewey -- the founder of the Foundation of the Study of Cycles -- said:

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:15 - ID#57232)
Oh Well - The rest of my post is in the Aether again!
Haggis -- Now I know how you must feel!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:16 - ID#344308)


must dis-agree with your inter-pertation of mellow yellow.....

there was plenty of herb...mellow yellow referred to a type of
mild acid.....
..the beatles sang of 'lucy in the skies with diamonds' same message...

i prefer jefferson starship's----'blows against the empire'---album.
their first as starship.....this album needs to be heard by all.... tells a the future...the people in the story are
by all accounts ------gold bugs------a story of hope.....and vision....
and action..just as they flew through space to find a better day.....
i buy gold to 'find a better way' and silver backed curriencies.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:18 - ID#28594)
Really nice to see the banks out there making the world safe for money...
South China Business Post
Tuesday January 27 1998

Investment giants hold talks to ease corporate debt turmoil in

Morgan Stanley & Co and Merrill Lynch & Co say they are in talks with the Indonesian Government on steps needed to get the country out of its corporate debt crisis.

"As the Indonesian Government is an important client, we have an ongoing dialogue on financing opportunities that may be available to them," a
Morgan Stanley spokesman said yesterday.

"We have recently had discussions on . . . ways to address the financial situation in the country."

Merrill Lynch had also made a proposal to the Indonesian Government on ways to address the crisis, Merrill Lynch's head of Asia-Pacific fixed
income research in Singapore, William Belchere, said.

He declined to provide details on the shape of the proposal.

The proposals come as the Indonesian Government seeks ways to meet the US$65 billion in short-term foreign debt that has crippled the country, sent the rupiah plunging almost 60 per cent this year, and left the banking system paralysed as companies are unable to pay their debts and foreign banks have stopped lending.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:18 - ID#426220)

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:26 - ID#32078)
Privateer site
Can someone assist me by listing the url for the Privateer.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:27 - ID#57232)
Your 18:06 is much appreciated
SDRer: That says it all -- what we need to do is move back to truth and honesty in our dealings with our fellow man. To much has been lost in recent years -- for many reasons. Lets hope that we come to this realization gradually, and not after the tragedy and pain of war.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:34 - ID#424187)
Message to BART

Please don't take the weekends off when this site goes down
it really starts to get mean out there. Great site BART


(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:35 - ID#93232)
@tman....Kaplan post
Thanks...good analysis.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:38 - ID#215215)
The Privateer

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:39 - ID#286199)
Various URLs
Drooy news:

HomeStake upgraded:

The Privateer: ( server is currently down )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:40 - ID#426220)
ALL: Bart Kitner has taken it upon himself to dis-allow the FIRST AMENDENT RIGHT OF ALL - Canadnians and Americans. He has programmed his website to corrupt postings to suit his own end... to control his version of what the news should be. His purpose is all too obvious , to dictate what is posted to this "supposedly" free-speech forum. But never fear we HAVE ALL SEEN THIS TYPE OF CONTROLLED MEDIA IN THE PAST -- Just think back about 50 years ago in EUROPE!!!! For any interested in more information about why this is happening, please email me at
Do it soon, because the Kitner'S Blitzkrieg is about to begin AGAIN, AND WILL MOST CERTAILY CUT ME OFF FROM COMMUNICATING WITH YOUvia this CONTROLLED WEBSITE!!!!

The more things change, the MORE THE WORLD REMAINS THE SAME. Nicht wahr Herr Kitner!!!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:46 - ID#426220)
Date: Mon Jan 26 1998 20:18
vronsky (>> )


(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:49 - ID#224149)
Bart-If you Don't want Commercials on your Website It's fine with me ---Away to find the battle of soap opera control

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:53 - ID#348286)

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:54 - ID#22956)
.......Dollar and Sense.........
Many, MANY still want the US$. Do not count on it's demise too soon....

and Platinum is ready to 'go' the



(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:56 - ID#22956)
We(some) in the US take their adverts quite serious......
Which commercial ( during the Game ) got the 'best' award?? I liked the mosquito and the tobasco sauce........**POOF***....ha ha..

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:57 - ID#348286)
Your site has gone to the dogs ( excuse the pun ) . I guess its his option to control advertising, but I sure hope there is no editing of content, or im outta here *poof*.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:58 - ID#26793)
Scandal at Japan Finance Ministry

(Mon Jan 26 1998 20:58 - ID#364147)

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:02 - ID#269409)
@ Vronsky
I don't think censorship is Bart's message. Besides, you're the only one flagrantly violating the rules each and every day. However, your posts are a satricial joke, am I correct?

Bart, I've certainly spoken out against censorship here, and I disagreed with the Hepcat banning, but anyone who believes in freedom, believe that a site provider has every right to set the rules. This ain't a public park.

In teh off chance Vronsky is serious and not just pullin our leg, don't back down on your stand to demand a commercial free zone!

( Amway sellers go home... )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:05 - ID#286230)
oldgoldpanner: Went to Scarborough Town Cooks Exchange and traded in some D Marks for C$ today. No fuss-no bother. I see they have KRands and bullion and M Leafs as well.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:05 - ID#26793)
Placer Dome News

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:07 - ID#269409)
@ Vronsky
And furthermore, you have the most monolithic, controlled, imbalanced site re Gold of any I've seen, as I have pointed out frequently, with the exception of the "Privateer" and others who are hacking something.

I'm always amazed at folks who co-opt someone's neighborhodd, and then demand that it be changed to suit their tastes. I wonder if you'd yield to the pressure if dozens of stock market, Gold Bear talking heads demanded space on your site to post their commentaries aginst Gold and hawk their newsletters? Hmmmmm?

But as I said, your posts of today are far too outrageous to be serious, so you must be pullin legs eh?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:07 - ID#410194)
@ Bart
Dear Bart,

You have been extremely patient and polite so far with your requests to keep this site "ad free". You have sent out one, two, three and even four messages specifically requesting someone to cooperate with you. A 12 year old kid would have understood sooner.

Keep up the good work and thanks for giving us the opportunity to share our thoughts and diverse opinions.

And I totally support your "ad-free" requests!!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:08 - ID#93232)
@brother vronsky......
I pain to think that you will leave the site,,,I also know that you can set up your own discussion room at gold beagle....but the group shouldn't be split. I pray that you and Bart resolve this...middle ground abounds. It seems that the resolution would proceed if your discussion were held privately with each other...not in the view of this forum. I know both believe in the First Ammendment ( US ) ( I don't know the Canadian equivalent...and I should ) .

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:11 - ID#364147)
Does this mean I can't advertise my houses on this site???

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:11 - ID#26793)
J.P. Morgan Bank placed on credit warning by S&P

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:11 - ID#410194)
Well said LGB....

His lack of understanding, cooperation and objectivity only reflect what is to be found on his Gold propaganda site.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:11 - ID#26669)
Anybody here notice how well the Asian prices are holding up these days?

LGB silver hasn't gone to $5.20 yet since I mispredicted it, but it ain't February 15th yet. And $5.40 was in the general vicinity. :- )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:12 - ID#224149)
If you have problems finding gold beagle --- go to a search site --- otherwise use ---Extra Strength Tylenol T.m.-----I have links saved to gold beagle ---no problem ----Away to buy more Gold

Spud Master
(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:13 - ID#273112)
Spud, giving LGB a taste of his own "rocket science" medicine... change gold to "stocks" and viola!
And furthermore, you have the most monolithic, controlled, imbalanced site re Stocks of any I've seen, as I have pointed out frequently, with the exception of the "Silicon Investor" and others who are hacking something.

I'm always amazed at folks who co-opt someone's neighborhood, and then demand that it be changed to suit their tastes. I wonder if you'd yield to the pressure if dozens of Gold-Bull talking heads demanded space on your stock-market sites to post their commentaries against Stocks & Bonds and hawk their newsletters? Hmmmmm?

But as I said, your posts of today are far too outrageous to be serious, so you must be pullin legs eh?

Spud, plageriz'n LGB & pulling off his six legs, one by one...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:14 - ID#224149)
My Last Post Became a Dog ---woof woof

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:16 - ID#224149)
You sure can But who would buy a Dog House.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:17 - ID#364147)
This is NOT an advertisement
The 'guts' of my new house ( all native ( sawmill ) lumber ) :1=21-8"x8"x16'
#6=1200 linear feet of 3.25"x4" lumber
#7=1200 linear feet of 2.25"x4" lumber
#10=7/8"x10" to cover 3,900 square feet
#11=8,400 board feet of 2"x6" v-joint tongue+groove
#15=10-2"x7"x16' ( planned to 2" )
#25=1" ( or7/8" ) x 5" spruce ( to cover 500 square feet )

Rick: Below the line above are the recent additions I've made...If you
could send me one invoice for th

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:18 - ID#364147)
arf arf

Pacific Northwest Dave
(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:22 - ID#223187)
I just got on line. Is Vronsky banned? I like Vronsky, his sites are always 100% right on. I hope he hasn't been banned. I do agree that Kitco has the right to ban whoever they want, but I think Vronsky sites are extremely inteligent and extremely intelligent. Go- Go my well informed Vronsky!! Tell it like it is!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:22 - ID#364147)
Jessie(barf) Jackson is on Larry King defending--------------
BUBBA~~~~~~~~~~~death to the 'Rainbow coalition'!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:25 - ID#224149)
Fly like an Eagle --Great song----When they landed on the moon --The Eagle Has landed ---The Great hunting bird ---The American Eagle

gert frobe
(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:26 - ID#433153)
@Leo Wanta Wannabe
Where is the 2100 tonnes formerly in the Russian CB vault??

Mo in To
(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:26 - ID#347205)
Trouble with Vronsky?
What is all the hubub with Vronsky? I enjoy his posts tremendously
even if I don't agree or understand them. I hope he can keep posting
as we are all 21 years and older, well old enough to judge any posts
that are put on line.

Mo in To
( ps. I promise, no more silly willy jokes )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:28 - ID#57232)
Vronsky- I support you and Bart!
Vronsky: My impression is that Bart just wanted you to lay off on the

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:29 - ID#57232)
Vronsky- I support you and Bart!
Vronsky: My impression is that Bart just wanted you to lay off on the

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:31 - ID#57232)
Truncated posts!
Talk about censorship! I think my ISP provider has it in for me! Anyone else having problems?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:33 - ID#57232)
Truncated posts!
Bart: Is your hard disk getting full? I just wanted to help make peace between you and Vronsky -- I think when he calms down, you and he can come to an understanding.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:37 - ID#401460)
J.P.Morgan Income down 35 %
Donald__A posted URL earlier:

S&P, placing J.P. Morgan on ``CreditWatch with negative implications,'' noted that the company has become more dependent on market-related income such as underwriting, advisory work and trading. The report also said the growth of lending and other acivities in emerging markets has resulted in heightened credit risk.

On Jan. 20, J.P. Morgan reported fourth-quarter earnings of $1.33 per share compared to $2.04 a year ago. Although a year-over-year-decline had been expected, analysts said the result was a disappointment.

Tantalus Rex
(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:38 - ID#295111)
Vronsky is great, keep up those posts.
JohnDisney is good too, but I think Tzadeak has got the upper hand on him lately. I mean Tzadeak has him by the balls and can squeeze at will. However, it's safe to say JohnD is right on most of the time.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:39 - ID#344308)


excellent-----and the truth......hypocrisy

realistic-------showing your true colors....about time
you came out of the closet.....ankle-biter...

when have you ----realistic-------EVER added ANYTHING to
this forum?'re a peopleo sleep-walker....
as is lgbito....

lgbito claims to have recently turned bullish on gold
after BEING BEARISH FOR 17 YEARS....his own words...
i submit 'it' is not old enough to have been bearish
for 17 years...and his allusion to having been right
for more than 17 years on the direction of gold......haaarrrrummmmpphhh..
bull sh!t......danged weine wackers......and chicken-chokers.....
klintonites all......aaawwwwwwkkkkkkk...yep, there you go again....
aawwwwwkkkkkkkkk........lgbito......stop it!.....out of respect for
your uncle-in-the-barn-waitin-on-you---billy-klinton....

much better........lgb + bug-eyed karlito = lgbito......ta-bueno

cherokee!; ) --swatting-bugs--&-chicken-chokers--

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:40 - ID#57232)
What a pleasure to hear from you! My voice is truncated/AEtherized.
Donald: Any news about Brazil or Argentina? China devaluation?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:42 - ID#93232)
@Donald and HighRise.......
Geeze...Mr. J.P.Morgan's bank.......Wow!!!...Who's next in line. Credit Watch!!!

( test ) gold.eagle gold-beagle gold beagle gold beagle

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:44 - ID#364147)
Vronsky + Bart
Get it on dudes~~~~~~~~~~

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:50 - ID#364147)
NEWS FLASH on CNN(this is NOT a joke)
CNN Just reported that a secret service agent is ready to testify that he saw Bubba + Monica in a 'compromising position'...hmmmmmmmmmm

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:51 - ID#401460)
Gold & Silver
Feb. Gold
March Silver

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:51 - ID#317138)
vronsky - your Mon Jan 26 1998 20:40 post
vronsky - the only thing you contribute to this site is
COMMERCIALS to your site. This is not a free specch issue.
Bart ( and most of the rest of us ) would appreciate a
commercial-free site. Is this not his right? Do on your
site what you want and leave us alone.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:51 - ID#364147)
NEWS FLASH on CNN(this is NOT a joke)
CNN Just reported that a secret service agent is ready to testify that he saw Bubba + Monica in a 'compromising position'...hmmmmmmmmmm

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:51 - ID#364147)
NEWS FLASH on CNN(this is NOT a joke)
CNN Just reported that a secret service agent is ready to testify that he saw Bubba + Monica in a 'compromising position'...hmmmmmmmmmm

(Mon Jan 26 1998 21:58 - ID#372344)
@ ..BTW RE SA,... ASA DOWN 2.70%...Is this part of the reason?>

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:01 - ID#153111)
The true measure of freedom
The true measure of freedom is not what you can do, but what you allow others to do. Comrade Stalin and others never lacked the freedom to express their opinion, the problem came from trying to express your opinion with them.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:04 - ID#153111)
The true measure of freedom
The true measure of freedom is not what you can do, but what YOU allow others to do. Comrade Stalin and others never lacked the freedom to express their opinion, the problem came from trying to express your opinion with them. I don't know what Vronski did, but I hope its not terminal as I enjoyed his inputs.

Dave in CO
(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:06 - ID#215211)
@Ted - you're right - I've been trying to post this for 15 min.
AP bulletin - Secret Service agent will testify that he saw Clinton and Lewinsky doing the act that Clinton does not consider adultery or sex.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:06 - ID#344210)
Mr Vronsky
With regard to your posts here, I have questioned long before now your irresponsibility if you have not offered to pay Bart for the everyday excess bytes and advertising. Your site, while I look forward to its content, was made on the back of Kitco.

You have always been bookmarked.

Respectfully submitted

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:09 - ID#401460)
How They Did It
This took place a while back and we have discussed this and the use of derivatives in the past, but this is a good article.

I would venture a guess that this is what they have been doing with the Gold market.
"We also know that in 1989 former Federal Reserve
governor Robert Heller proposed precisely what should
be done in the event of another market collapse. Heller,
who left the Fed just months before making his thoughts
known, suggested rigging the markets through the
massive purchase of stock index futures contracts."

"Instead of flooding the entire economy with liquidity, and
thereby increasing the danger of inflation, the Fed could
support the stock market directly by buying market
averages in the futures market, thus stabilizing the
market as a whole," wrote Heller in an op-ed piece in the
Oct. 27, 1989 Wall Street Journal."

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:10 - ID#373346)
Thanks for the acknowlegement, I appreciate it.

I'm always watching and rarely posting on Kitco. Although, I find this site very informative and sometimes humurous. Glad to contribute when possible.

My outlook for Gold: ( Write this down out there for those interested )

Shorts will wear down and become frustrated the longer Gold hangs around $300.00. There will be a strong battle over the coming months but Gold will win and eventually this Spring be in the $350 range. As far as after that: It all depends on the EEU, ECU, whatever term ( currency, union ) you want to latch on to. Gold above $400.00 by early to mid 1999 as production continues to slow down from mines and the true affect of 1997 starts to be felt.

I have never heard anyone complain about Vronsky before, WHY NOW! Let's define the word Commercial: Promotion for personal or monetary gain ( not Webster's ) . All I see is a reference post to very informative links. Boy some people on here can be vicious!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:12 - ID#22451)
If someone posts a URL or article from another site, is that advertising?

Bart Kitner (Kitco)
(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:14 - ID#25867)
I think he noticed me.
For the record: Vronsky is NOT banned from this site. In fact, because he potentially has so much to contribute, I'm hoping that enforcing the "ad-free" policy doesn't keep him away.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:15 - ID#20137)
(Vronsky + Bart)
Vronsky does this bb a great service by supporting it with documents and articles ... that are strondly related to topics ongoing. I hope that the both of you can come to some common ground.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:15 - ID#254179)
PGU's grounding?
Has anyone heard of or made any estimates about the required POG for PGU's emergence from Chp 11?

If so, based on what production levels and debt service plans?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:24 - ID#286199)
What's the spot price of gold?
Here's the latest link to the Clinton nightmare and the new witness

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:26 - ID#286279)
Vronski pushed his luck too far, that is clear, still, I am sorry to witness censorship of any kind occur because I think it will ultimately harm your vibrant forum. It must have been a very difficult decision. Further, Vronski should be thankful for the exposure he has received on Kitco from you in the past. IMHO

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:28 - ID#288349)
Re: Vronsky/Bart
This site is owned and operated by Bart Kitner. There is no free speech issue here. I would argue that anyone making such claims has never owned or run a business.

Over the many months I've lurked at this site I have never seen any sort of advertisment by Bart. Any arguments claiming some sort of infringement of free speech are specious. This is a privately owned and operated forum.

The vast majority of posters at this site agree that the sovereign right of private property ownership must take precedence over romantic liberal notions of trying to make things fair, just and right for all.

Let us not forget where such thinking has gotten us. This same line of reasoning will be applied to PM holdings. Is there really anyone here who could support such a line of reasoning?
Bart can boot anybody off HIS site if he wants to because he owns this site.

Spud Master
(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:29 - ID#273112)
Bill Clinton, or How LGB learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Gold Bugs
... even though I've questioned a one thing Vronsky has posted - his info far, far out weighs the banal advert side. Bart, I appreciate this board you have provided, but if you knowingly allow people to post adverts here - and then do nothing for a year or so - it's tantamount to sanctioning the activity.

Spud + 165 rupiahs worth

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:29 - ID#93232)
Verbally visit more often...I wish more lurkers would speak up...but I feel their reservation...those tongues ( bifurcated and sharpened ) .

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:33 - ID#335190)
Gold & Silver 1700's @ USofA & Great Britain = Paper Money = PUBLIC OWNERSHIP & PRIVATE OWNERSHIP
As early as 1690, a few years before William Paterson approched the Crown with his banking scheme, the colonies in the new world began printing their own

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:34 - ID#335190)
Gold & Silver 1700's @ USofA & Great Britain = Paper Money = PUBLIC OWNERSHIP & PRIVATE OWNERSHIP
As early as 1690, a few years before William Paterson approched the Crown with his banking scheme, the colonies in the new world began printing their own "banknotes". Like those issued by the bank of England, these notes were pieces of paper, deemed to be of specific value, that were loaned to members of the public, who had to pay interest on them.

The notes were legal tender and were traded from hand to hand just like gold and silver coins. Hence they amounted to a form of currency. Unlike the notes from the Bank of England, however, there was no attempt to claim that these paper notes were redeemable for gold or silver, since there was so little of these precious metals around.

Instead, the colonial notes were backed by land, by mortgaged real estate or future tax revenues - something of real value that the colonies had in abundance.

Interestingly, one of the early reasons for printing paper money was to finance military expeditions against Canada. The colony of New York, for instance, issued its first paper money in 1709 "for the reduceing of Canada." But the colonial governments soon saw that issuing paper money was useful for more than just financing wars against Canadians.

It also put more money into circulation, thereby reducing the cost of borrowing money and invigorating trade and economic activity. Pennsylvania and New Jersey turned to paper money issues in the 1720's when their economies fell into a serious economic slump.

The preamble to the New Jersey loan bill that issued the first round of paper money explained that the move was necessary because "Silver and Gold", formerly current in the Province, is almost entirely Exported to Great Britain.

"This shortage of Gold and Silver, the preamble continued, was responsible for "the Miserable Circumstances of the Inhabitants." The results of the loan bill were impressive: the previously depressed economies of Pennsylvania and New Jersey rebounded vigorously.
The interest collected by the government from the banknotes was sufficient to allow the colony to eliminate taxes for almost *twenty years.*This highlights a significant difference between the early banking systems in England and in its colonies. Both systems overcame the Gold and Silver scarcity problem by expanding their money supplies, but England did so through a **PRIVATE** banking system, while the colonies opted for a **PUBLIC** approach.

1746 - Over the first five decades of the Bank's operation, ( 1694 - **Private** Banking Plan, with initial capital of 1.2 million in Gold and Silver ) ....The Bank of England loaned the British Government a total of 11,690,000. By 1746, the government hadn't paid off any of this debt. But, in the meantime, it had paid a staggering amount of **INTEREST** to the Bank -23,000,000 - more than twice the amount it had borrowed.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:34 - ID#372344)
@ James.... Tantalus Rex....
James:As you probably know I was short the US$ last week, bought
back early this morning, but I don't think based on what I know today
that the US$ is in a major downtrend which IMHO has begun Of course
this is not to say it is going down in a straight line, just as Gold is not going to go up in a straight line. I belive others here including Haggis have pointed out to you that the US is the largest Debtor in the world, and
a weaker Yen would automatically mean much higher US trade deficits,
among a large number of other negatives of which a very important one
would be the dire effects of a low Yen on the Asia Crisis. The US and the world have yet to come up with a solution to said crisis, let alone pour
gas into that inferno by a lower Yen. Also as I stated this morning as the US troops and interests are likely attacked around the world,as in previous decades, this too will have a loss of confidence thus negative effect on the US$ +markets.The way the US will keep pushing the US$ is by threats and actual use of it's mighty military, such as it is about to do to Iraq thus I intend to play the US$ accordingly,when said events unfold, keeping in mind that the longer term trend is down, and other currencies
and even maybe Oil will push hard to share world reserve currency throne, China of course is very soon to be a superpower both economically with the addition of Taiwan, and militarily, and that in and of itself is very bearish for the US$, they will play with their own ball ( Gold ) ,
and by their own rules, ( military )

Tantalus R, I wish to assure you and everyone here, that I am not an instigator by nature, however having said that I will defend myself
when personally and shamelessly attacked ,with reasoned and informed beliefs based on facts,and further in no way will I personally squeeze his ba--s, I would like to hire the Kitco cop Ted if he is available, at a
reasonable rate of course.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:37 - ID#286279)
If you never mentioned your site here, others would talk about it enough so that you probably would not lose one hit, you might even get more.

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:38 - ID#403159)
Big bucks
Time to turn the tables. Precious metals are to become just that indeed.
For those that have waited to buy will not buy, for you waited too long.
It will be like Hoover Dam going through a garden hose. Just buy and close your eyes for the small window of opportunity will close very shortly. We are within hours or a few days now from a move in precious metals that has never been witnessed before in the history of mankind.
As I write this the stage is already set and it will not be a happy time for America. It's time to pay the piper. Protect your families and lives. ANOTHER is for real for he only cares about informing those he can.
Look around you and you can see there is a change near. You don't need ANOTHER or me to tell you or God help you.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:40 - ID#344308)

IF clinton resigns, what is assured?

gold will sky-rocket.......
bonds will tank............
the us$ will tank..........
the equities will tank.....

where to be? for me........

gold calls.......
bond puts........
us$ puts.........
equities puts....

damned-near a sure thing......

the 'new' witness is going to push him over the 'edge.'

with-in 2 weeks he is limb......sure-is-warm!
gold going to $400 just as fast.........better not be short any
of the pm's........they are going to the moon.........where's alice?

ALLABOARD---the smoke-signal-mobile----loaded-for-bear----yar-the-bear--


(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:41 - ID#411331)
stochastic charting of gold prices
I read with great interest Delphi's message about stochastic
prediction of gold prices. It would help if he defined the "K" and
"D" lines and explained how K and D over "80" signals a time to sell.
Can mere mortals plot stochastic trends or does it take an account with
an advertising agency or the local university computer math department?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:41 - ID#393224)
Vronsky,mate, don't take your football home as we are all enjoying the game. Bart is the team owner and sets the rules. I understood his "hints" to you very well. When you have some good new info for us, post it ONCE only. That way we will all know you have a good new article to read at your site. Don't even have to post your URL as we can all find it. Now gentlemen, let's kiss, make up and PLAY BALL. REMEMBER, we're all on the same team!!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:46 - ID#426220)

Cueball ( Mr Vronsky ) : If you were a Kitco visitor since early 1996, as I, you would undoubtedly realize - as Bart Kitner does - that your so-called "logic" is bass-ackwards!!!!!

BTW, Cueball, I cannot rememeber any significant posting of yours. Care to refresh our minds if there were indeed anything worth reading, other than a spurious complaint!!!?

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:47 - ID#372344)
@ I don't=I do believe the US$ is starting major downtrend.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:57 - ID#270236)
HighRise and Heller.
If the Fed purchases stock index futures, how does the Fed pay for this
purchase? Unless, I'm missing something, they would write a check on
itself as it does when buying TBills. The parties the Fed purchases the
index futures from probably deposits the check in their bank account.
That adds to the reserves of the banking system and floods the entire
system with liquidity.

My understanding is that any time the Fed purchases any asset it increases liquidity.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:58 - ID#377196)
440,000,000 rupiah for a 100 oz gold bar, up from 381,000,000 yesterday

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:59 - ID#372344)
@ Tantalus Rex...BTW,Get ready for incoming DIZZY blasts..Are you shaking yet? I know I am...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 22:59 - ID#285392)
Bart and Vronsky
You are both great people! Let's have the two of you come to a compromise in private without either one saying something on a public forum that you may regret. We need both of you.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:00 - ID#257136)
Vronsky's ads!!
For the first week or so that I lurked here, I faithfully followed each of Vronsky's posts.
Thick as I am, it took me a couple more days to realize that it was a waste of time to follow most of them, as they were repeats.
It is my opinion that were we to be exposed to each NEW IDEA once only, it would have a salubrious effect on the forum as well as on my attitude.

I quit reading them a couple months ago, as they all seem to run down the same trail ultimately.
( Excuse the caps! Fat fangersm dern it!! ( :+ ) ) As a result I can appreciate Bart's position. It's not just the fact of ownership which is at issue here.
It is a matter of common copurtesy. If we want a free ride for our messages, we should be content-as in Vronsky's case- to print each individual message once only.
I feel each of us makes a conscious decision as to what we follow. I quit following Mr Vronsky's 'cause they are superflous!
One a day would be tolerable.
Good grief, think of the bandwidth each of the innumerable posts we see here weekly utilizes. Speak about the free lunch!! TANSTAAFL!!!!
If I were to see a single postinfg of your site here I promise to follow it. If it is repeated, i promise to follow none of them again!! Fair is FAIR!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:01 - ID#26669)
Thats a good question
Rhody: That's a good question. Any TA who wishes to answer: What is a good starter text for someone who wishes to learn TA type number crunching? Should be readable to anyone with a year of calculus, a year of statistics and junior high school level programming skills. And cost shouldn't be more than a couple of 1/10 ounce gold beagles...%^ )

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:01 - ID#344308)


yes, it so close as to be palpable......i 'see' the crest
of the has hit the shallows, and has grown from
a ripple into a towering giant....those who are not in pm's,
or out of paper.....will not have the chance to change their
course....they will either miss the ship, or not be able to
get off the one they are on......

once again.....time is very, very short........

'if i have seen farther than others, it is because i have stood on the
shoulders of giants' sir isaac newton......what a visionary....

'the farther backward you look, the farther forward you can see'
...........winston churchill......

shoot from the hip, aim for their lip......


(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:09 - ID#65208)
Bart, you have a great judgement.
Bart, you have a great judgement.


Do not change your mind, keep your goal in sight and a fist on the table for the commercials.

Please stay a little tollerant as always for the funny peoples as TED and TORT and all the others who disregards the rules ,but give respect for other mindset and are not TOO much advertising for their house...

PS: I like Vronsky, but once a shift on Kitco should be ok most of the time for me to be remembered to check his marvellous site.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:10 - ID#364147)
Kitco kop + Tzadeak..................and Feb. Gold
I'll work for you,fer nothin~~~~~~~you da man!...Feb.Gold up 2.20 @ 299.30

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:14 - ID#280222)
I think NICK@C's 22:41 sums it up nicely!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:14 - ID#284255)
Something from the ether zone.
Space Weather Outlook


These solar activities are finally due to hit Earth soon.
I have been watching solar activity fow a while on a regular basis,
And believe we are in for a wave of flux.
For the last week there has been numerous sun spots.
Way above average activity.
The sun is literally roiling.
And now the waves of chaos are due to hit the Earths atmosphere.
I expect them to have subliminal effects on the masses of Earth.
Watch for gold to get touchy.
Plus the equity markets.
Bad backs and toothaches.
Hoods, crims and maniacs will be on the loose.

But I will be watching my precious.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:14 - ID#401460)
Monica Has Spoken
Monica has submitted her proposal to Starr, now she waits for his offer of Immunity.

Secret Service Agent Man
Witnessed the evil deed.
This will make a good song.

IMHO-At this rate,The President of the United States will have a difficult time remaining President long enogh to make the State of the Union speech.

Watch the US$, Bond and Gold start to move as this news floats across the Pacific.

Has ever one thought about what is on the table right now.
1. Asian economic collapse.
2. Mid East powder keg.
3. Saudi Arabia has problems.
4. Oil Price Problems.
5. US Aircraft Carriers in the Gulf.
6. Russian Envoy in Bagdad.
7. US Economy is a HUGE bubble
8. IMF funding?
9. Yr 2K
And the President can't keep his pants zipped.


(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:19 - ID#427357)
a.j. & Cueball...

Is it indeed not curious that the strongest opponents to gold-beagle postings of relevant gold information for the Kitco pulbic are HANDLES of unknown people who have NEVER EVER CONTRIBUTED TO THE KNOWLEDGE AND BENEFIT OF OUR GROUP???! I refer to the likes of the so-called "a.j." and "cueball," and a few others NOT even worth mentioning due to their totally insignificant contibution to the information bank of our group.
If you contributed nothing, how can you complain about anything... or are you some elite that due to YOUR "station" are except from pulling YOUR fair share of the load... oh, pray tell, if that is the case, I will bow down in reverance to your "Grace." But pray tell, to what royal order or social position do you belong????

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:19 - ID#341293)
Strad's Newest Orchestra Member !!!!!


Because of the lack of a proper computer at the Strad household ( he uses a Mac for pete's sake! ) He requested of me the posting of a picture of his newest baby Katalin. She apparently is bery healthy, with a great set of lungs and can hit a high "C" without straining ....

Gentlemen, I present to you Katalin Balagh ....


(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:20 - ID#401460)
ADD to the list.
10. El Nino
11. Solar Storms
12. Earthquakes
13. Volcanos
14. Gennifer Flowers
15. Paula Jones
16. Monica
17. Mrs Lawrence ( maybe ) ?
Was there a Marla Maples?
DeeDee Myers? She sure is defending her Guy.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:21 - ID#341293)
Trust me ....

Sorry Guys, Trust me to screw it up eh!

Endre BalOgh not Balagh...
Sorry Endre But I got soooo excited HAHAHA


(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:24 - ID#20137)
Date: Mon Jan 26 1998 23:19
Front ( Strad's Newest Orchestra Member !!!!! ) ID#341293:


Protect the children. Buy gold, sack Clinton.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:26 - ID#427357)

Bart Kitner, it is indeed a petty mind that will program his website to disfigure the term GOLD EAGLE TO GOLD-cocker spaniel as you have done during the last 3-4 hours. Childish at best, pathological worst.... all because you are not in agreement with out opinion. Not very professional amigo!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:27 - ID#401460)
Great Picture,
Good looking Kid, FULLBACK?

Why can't his Mac get the job done? The Mac usually will do more than a Wintel machine. Must be that he didn't have a scanner?


(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:28 - ID#20137)
Date: Mon Jan 26 1998 23:14
HighRise ( Monica Has Spoken ) ID#401460:

I don't think Hillary will EVER give up. Bill might walk away when it gets tough, but Hillary has NEVER let him. POWER is all she has ever wanted and she will NOT go quietly into the night.

This situation will be long and painful.IMHO.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:29 - ID#344308)


chaos and flux.....two of my favorite subjects....we know
they are amux us....

very few are prepared for their effects.....or believe any-thing
other than happy days for all time.....

cycles......expansion and contraction......normal and predictable....
yet man tries to defy, physics in all her splendour and un-stoppable can only be delayed, and in doing, intensify the
effects of the opposite simple as to be ludicrous...
yet written in stone and immutable........

the bond-bomb is set to explode upon the masses.....the psychological
paradigm occured earlier this year....we are fixing to witness the
actual physical!t is going to be go in ALL
directions! INCOMING!!!


(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:31 - ID#401460)
Katalin Balagh
Nah, she will marry an All American Quarterback - who appreciates music.


(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:34 - ID#401460)
Yes, Hillary won't leave.
"Elway and Bill are both masters of the 2 min drill" Jay Leno


(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:37 - ID#224149)
Many here have lost over $100.00 on Gold per oz over the last year from the commercial sites promoting Gold and promoting themselves but never being wrong ---Do me a F--king Favour and go jump in------Sorry Bart had to be said.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:37 - ID#344308)

billary will be forced-out by a pre-ponderance of

the dnc and their power brokers.......with-in 2 weeks....

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:38 - ID#364147)
Vronsky + Bart
Lets get ready ta ruuuuumble....I've given you your instructions,now go to your corners and come out fighting.......P.S. No three knock- down rule in effect and you can't be saved by the bell...

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:41 - ID#344308)

-----bart & vronsky--------

take it some-where else.....tired of the bs.....i mean it!

hard to listen to my eyes!!!!!!!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:43 - ID#364147)
Poorboys..................................@ Lake Simcoe
Watch the language dude......

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:44 - ID#287207)
for the reduceing of Canada
6pak: Now you have my sense of humour looking around for a laugh. Lets hear more about the printing of money for the above purpose.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:46 - ID#227238)
High Rise ( 23:14 ) : A substantial list of economic irritations, indeed. At the same time, I can't help but believe they are all priced into the markets. What we need to look out for is the zinger from "outa nowhere". The one thing that is not obvious and commonly known. Especially for gold. It's only the big boys playing in the gold market. Need something that scares the crap out of them. The public is not involved just yet. So anything that has captured the general public probably ain't going to help us much.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:47 - ID#373346)
That was in very Poortaste!!

Seems to me that you have to take responsibility for your own investment decisions. No passing the US Buck to someone else on personal losses. Myself inlcuded.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:48 - ID#341293)
Highrise .....

Actually, I think it's all Strad's fault for the non-posting of the pictures. I believe he spends most of his day just fiddling around rather than reading the software instructions HAHAHA !

He's actually having computer problems at the moment which he's in the middle of solving. I'd hate to have the guys long distance bill I assure you. He knows what and how but the gremlins have somehow appeared. I was just joking about the "MAC" ( yea "right" all the non-mac guys are saying in unison !!! ) ( :- )


(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:51 - ID#224149)
SoRRy TED --Should Read f------ =Fuddle Duddle

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:53 - ID#238295)
gold action
Gold stocks did very well today considering that bullion fell a few bucks and the greenback rallied strongly. My strong hunnch is that bullion will take out $300 decisively the next time the dollar comes under serious pressure.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:53 - ID#217268)
Cherokee @23:29
You are absolutely correct ... most people are not prepared for anything other than happy days. I've asked people about their spyder-web of investments and all I get are shrugs. People have been conditioned to worship paper since 1982 or thereabouts. Periodically I ask someone what would be their net worth if suddenly electricity was not available ? What does the electronic journal entry at the bank mean if there is no electricity to run the computers ? Or if banks were on an "extended holiday" ? Or if supermarket shelves were empty ? Or natural gas/electricity was not available to heat the home ?

Not only are people not ready, but they are loaded to the gills with debt. Credit card debt scares me ... home equity debt terrifies me. The glue that holds "paper" together is CONFIDENCE. When confidence begins to slip, be sure you are near an exit.

Anybody heard from A.G. or Rubin lately ???????????????????????

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:53 - ID#364147)
U.S. dollar lookin shaky and Feb. gold up 2.20
G'Nite all~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:55 - ID#280222)
"stop-slammers R US"
I've noticed in the past that one thing that sometimes precedes big market moves is a good "reach up and wipe it down" the day before. We've just had one.

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:55 - ID#364147)
Poorboys...................I've been -----------------
MUZZLED......fiddle sticks~~~~~~~~~~gosh darn it!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:56 - ID#57232)
Vronsky - Please read Bart's 22:14, and then log off till tomorrow!
Vronsky: It disappoints me to see so much discussion tonight about topics relating to your site. It wasn't long ago that everyone was complementing you on the accomplishments of your web site. Tonight, if you calm down, you will see that Bart is one of your supporters, not one of your detractors. You have many supporters.

This is Bart's ( free ) site, and we are his quests. Your guests are on invitation only as well, if you think about it. Why don't you think about what you are doing -- what if Bart reacted the way you are reacting now? He might decide that he has had enough and shut us all down! Please -- for the sake of our little world -- think about what I am saying, and cool off for a while. We want the usually calm logical Vronsky back that we like so much!

(Mon Jan 26 1998 23:59 - ID#365190)
musings on vronsky
His input is valuable but the repeated postings are irritating.

Vronsky, could you keep the repeated postings to one per day? That sounds like a good compromise between the "post-once" and the current dogma of multiple postings...

:- )