Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:00 - ID#372344)
@ Bart... He who owns the "site" rules.
This is your site, and I as you know enjoy and appreciate it greatly.
I don't believe you are being unfair or petty in your decision, as you
have already stated, you have not barred him.

vronsky: no te agas mala sangre amigo, no vale la pena, es mi opinion
que la malloridad aqui , llo incluido,visita tu casa, diatiamente.
Mismo si no creemos en todo que hase dicho. Pero assegura te
que van a continuar a visitar tu casa.
Aqui, estamos todos en su casa como convitados, y tenemos que
comportarnos con cortesia, si no, todos nosotros perdemos, y que
estrano fuera si llegaria eso a pasar, a el mismo tiempo que finalmente
el ORO, despuez de tantos anos, esta brillando.
Perdona por decirte esto pero me parece a mi que te estas haciendo dano a tus intereses,y reputation, mira no te vayas, sigue aunque mismo con sus reglas, porque nosotros todos unidos, al fin, vamos a ganar.


Lurker 777
(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:00 - ID#317247)
Go gold!
Oris,Panda,Quixotic 1 and all: Thanks for the info on weapons. I have decided to wait for a gun show in two weeks and look for a Tank. haha

Strad baby- Precious

Bart & Vronsky you guys are killing me. I am sorry but I have to try this: gold beagle Eagle Gold gold beagle

Lurker 777
(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:01 - ID#317247)
Go gold!
Oris,Panda,Quixotic 1 and all: Thanks for the info on weapons. I have decided to wait for a gun show in two weeks and look for a Tank. haha +++

Strad baby- Precious***

Bart & Vronsky you guys are killing me. I am sorry but I have to try this: gold beagle Eagle Gold gold beagle

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:02 - ID#57232)
How about that?
A complete post that did not vanish forever into the AEther!

All: Can BC keep a secret service agent from testifying about Monicagate? I don't think so! Bullish for gold, bearish for America. Oh well -- lets hope it does not drag on too long.

Something good must come of this -- we just have to look into ourselves to figure out what that

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:03 - ID#401460)
Earl, Clinton May Have to Resign Tomorrow!
Things are out of control. Bob Rubin today was not his normal cool and collected self. He offered no gaurantees - to anything. Except that he is not leaving. I really don't know how effective he will be without Clinton's BS financial reports and other miss information.

This Muslim thing could be the zinger. Indonesia, Malaysia, etc are predominantly Muslim. Durring the Iraqi War they did not like Americans - and things were good then. Now they aint so good.

Clinton is going full bore into this one with no allies - he is all alone with his pants down.

Dallas morning News reports that the Secret Service Man is ready to testify - Clinton may have to resign tomorrow. Gore looked really tired this morning at the News Conference.


(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:03 - ID#255151)

More precious than Gold

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:04 - ID#369174)
Random Thoughts
I've been a lurker since about April, and have been reading and learning from all. Thanks for the great discussion, info, etc. Bart -- thank you for the fantastic site. Forgive me if this handle has been used previously -- I will ask Bart to change it if Tyro has had a previous pre-registration life at Kitco.

Strad -- Congratulations!!! I just downloaded ( free ) the 4.04 version of Netscape and I can't believe what I've been missing -- the graphics are totally awesome. Katalin's photo is perfect -- she's beautiful!!!

Vronsky Re: your 23:19 -- I place myself into the "insignificant contributers" heap -- Sir, I greatly admire your insight and your gold beagle site, but must weigh in ( lightly ) and request that you accede to Bart's request. Please, we don't wish to offend you or lose you.

All -- We've seen gold stocks plummet during the last market mini-crash. Recently we've seen some sign of gold breaking free of its previous lock-step moves with the market. Does this mean that when the next market crash occurs, that gold stocks will hold steady or even rise, or will they crash along with the rest of the market before recovering?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:04 - ID#344210)
@Blatent Advertising indeed
Mr. Vronsky, I have been here since early 1996, so I.m sure you'll understand my tongue in cheek delivery when I say that Bart has not pasted repetitiously on gold-beagle by the thousands.

Early on I commented on a few specific issues, most notably my attempt to share with this site my research on precious group metal microclusters as I believe they will sooner rather than later declare traditional mining dinosorial. The fact that this was met with some closed minds and less than professional responses deterred my posts, but not my right to lurk, if you don't mind.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:05 - ID#26669)
News other than 'Tailgate'. Minimum wage $6.65?
Mexicans government workers get HUGE wage hike, Columbian trucking strike spreading and gathering strength, food riots in Zimbabwe, Socialist France is coming apart, hints at US minimum wage going to $6.65

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:06 - ID#369174)
Oops - Gold(E)agle gets changed automatically -
Mr. Vronsky - no offence intended!

John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:06 - ID#24135)
Disney of Arabia -an appointment in Samarra
To all

Al-lah be merciful-

It saddens me to see this fierce and pointless

clash between two of our mighty brothers. It is

madmess for us to fight among ourselves for we have

many enemies in the desert.

If one of us needs help, we must comfort him. If he

goes mad, we must be gentle with him, even if he is

only a poor mad sick son of a camel driver.

Remember - my enemy's enemy is my friend. It has

always been this way in the desert and always will be

enshal-lah. Al-lah o ak-bar.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:06 - ID#335190)
Bart @ Kitco
I truly am sorry that the Vronsky attack is happening. Should the Kitco site be driven down to this level. Yes, this site is commercial free today, Yes, it is a cost to the Kitco Firm, time, money, etc.

How is it possible to continue to fund this outstanding site. A Question that I have put forth before, yet, never received a reply.

Consider, always follow the money. I put that question to Vronsky, and was assured that his site isn't/wasn't funded by the Gold Council.

Yes, I accept Vronsky as an important part of the Kitco scene. Yes, your coin, your rules. If I do not like the changed scene, obviously, I need not be an active party... Clean and simple eh!

Give this outstanding site to those of the USofA, and it will become commercial heaven, to be sure.

Bart, Remember the rules. Good Guy's Finish Last. The great USofA way of doing business. Hell, your Kitco firm never rushes forth giving the latest bargains, as is done at Wal-Mart. Yes, the USofA Marketing is a winner. Now that the site exists in Florida, you are responsible to the Market conditions of the USofA. ( Get Commercial )

My input, for what the hell it is worth.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:06 - ID#255284)
Ted, Usual commission rates apply ;-))~~~~~~~~~

Strad People.
Katalin is just gorgeous.....and so quiet - looking - are you sure she can get those high notes?
Mac '89 beats win '95 hands down, sorry win users, you got the inferior system. Just 'cos there's more folk who believe in win than mac should get ya thinking about maybe parallels with paper and gold.

agree, something quite uncouth at watching web-masters fight. Mere mortals should not witness the conflicts of the gods, for conflict demeans their grace and nobility. It reduces their power and weakens them when they are needed to intercede in the fights of us mere mortals...

....take it off line boys....

Maybe you should both employ Ted as Kop, Judge and Jury get over it and move on... we got important stuff to worship the gods......and play with the muses..........and make some mullah.........

aurator the sensible, reasonable and thirsty...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:07 - ID#57232)
Reach up and wipe it down?
Savage: Your 23:55. Could you explain your terminology? What is the pattern that you see? Interesting comment!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:07 - ID#257136)
The Kitco netiquette rules of procedure make no mention of dues for participation.
You, of course, know that.
I perceive that you are either too impoverished to pay for advertisement or too thick ( intellectually ) to comprehend what it was Bart tried to tell you in the several posts addressed to you alone.

Any contributions I have made have undoubtedly been outweighed by yours of this evening.
Reason often retreats before insanity or inanity!!

FYI I did pay my dues. 1950-1951. U. S. Army, Infantry.

Hope you also were able to do so at some point in what I see as having been a miserable self-centered existence.

You need a friend KID.

They don't come easy, and not at all to folks who have no manners.
Or those who cannot exercise common courtesy when in the abode of others

.This site is not yours or mine.

It belongs to others!

Bart, Kitco, et. al..!

I must commend Bart on his forebearance.

Were the site mine, you'd have been history after the third repetitious post yesterday!

There is no question of rights here except Bart's right to decent treat ment by the "SQUATTERS" lookin' fer a free ride.


You and my ol' bud wjbc have one thing in common.

Breeding shows.

In his behavior as well as yours!

I offer you this wish: May your mother refrain from biting you as you return to the kennel!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:09 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Just a thought -- Wouldn't it be the most pure irony that after Gennifer Flowers, Paula Jones, Whitewater, And all the other miriad intrigues that the latest is later found to be pure BS and IT actually ends the Clinton presidency! HAR! I could see it happening simply because the Clinton usefulness is ending anyway, and what better way to put Algore in with more reasonable odds of later being elected than to 'assume' the chair for a year + first.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:10 - ID#398105)
John Disney........I'm watching the Cricket today...and the GOLD price....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:11 - ID#398105)
Diggers and Dealers.............and the "Feddie"...........

Now the Federal Hotel is a long way from all Federal Institutions in Washington DC..........BUT we have "Skimpies" that serve cooooold beer.

Now, any US Federal politician should come to the "Feddie" for a beer, and flip the infamous Kalgoorlie two dollar coin.......and what do you get for two dollars.........Old Slick would be right at home.

The best time to visit the Feddie is when the Diggers and Dealers Conference is on, during July. I do have a feeling that the Diggers and Dealers will be ACTIVE this anticipation of GOLD heading UPWARDS.

The Diggers and Dealers Conference:

Aye, Haggis

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:16 - ID#227238)
High Rise: I know what you're saying. It's just that the system seems so biased for the slippery bastards and against the best interests of the country at large. No matter how it turns out, he is finished as an effective political force but that's not the same as nailing his scrotum to a stump. ...... Whether he remains or is forced to resign, it will probably make little difference in economic outcomes. Those courses are, IMO, already set by outside forces. Though it might speed events somewhat, should he be forced to resign.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:17 - ID#373346)
Referring to your latest post:

Man, you're making no sense. I appreciate your time and service to your country and I know you've paid your dues.

Practice watch you preach.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:19 - ID#57232)
Logging off! Let's not make fools of ourselves to our friends Downunder!
All: Following Aurators comment's, lets stop talking about the "Clash of the Website ( Titan ) s" Nothing more about gold beagle tonight, or any other names, please! Vronsky is entitled to having the name of his website called by the name that he called it. Please remember -- we have a fledgling gold bull -- there is no reason for dissention.

Please -- Vronsky -- offline with Bart is better for all of us!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:19 - ID#286230)
The real question for the day is not --can Doug Flutie play in the NFL it is --Could the Buffalo Bills play in the CFL.

The archives are all gone and today's post are barely staggering on--

Vronsky's alerts to new posts are a bonus to those who tune in here--once a day.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:21 - ID#401460)
Clinton May Face Impeachable Charges?
Everyone knows of the posibility of resignation, but with this witness and Monica's statement; Clinton, if Hillary won't leave, will be charged and Impeached + Jail time ? Hillary will have nailed him as she walks out the door! COOL!

Things may happen pretty fast tomorrow. They will have to negotiate with Clinton for his resignation - that could take 10 mins. or 6 months kind of depends on Hillary - she has nothing to loose now, she may burry the Bastard.


John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:21 - ID#24135)
Hark - the Muezzin calls us to prayer
For Tantalus my brother

Al'lah is merciful.

But if one one by dear brothers should perchance

and in a playful spirit and meaning of course no

harm grab me by my sacred b***s, I, with great sorrow

in my heart, will most reluctantly be forced to tear

out his rib cage and feed it to my dogs.

Alas there are few like some of thee in the marketplace,

that can weave such carpets and with such power of

mouth. Blessed art thou - brothers and great peace

and the power of Al'lah fall upon thee like gentle rain.

Blessed Ramadan has passed. Eshal'lah

Al'lah 0 Ak-bar.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:22 - ID#227238)
Sweethearts on parade?
Haggis: Do we be sayin' that the Federal Hotel includes, among its other amenities, a house of negotiated affection? Fer shame.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:23 - ID#31868)
Strad Master
What a dazzling and beautiful addition to the world. You and yours must be so proud and well you should.


(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:25 - ID#255151)
The Presidential Scandal
This story is simply saturating the local radio,TV, and newspapers. The way this story has captured the full attention of America is simply amazing. The Washington media have egg all over their faces. Look for other scandals to be exposed, and watch as the mainstream media pursue it with a vengeance.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:27 - ID#341293)
Point of Clarification .....

It was mentioned earlier that there seemed to be the posibility that the ability to advertise is guaranteed by the American and Canadian constitution.

A point of information Mr. Vronsky. The Canadian supreme court has, in the past, said that American advertisers do not have the "right" to advertise in Canadian publications. This has been known as the "Time Magazine" decision in that the government of the day, in order to protect the Canadian publishing companies, refused to allow a Canadian version of "Time" magazine to have nearly all American ads. They ( the government ) demanded that the ads be from Canadian advertisers for a Canadian edition. In that Kitco is Canadian owned, I fail to see where your "rights" as an American citizen have been violated in any sence.

You demanded of other posters that they have had a "history" at this site before allowing their opinions to be valid. You and I have "had at this" before unfortunately so I believe my "history" is first hand. I personally like your site. I find it informative and very well done. Whether or not your posting here in bulk is offensive or unnecessary is not the point of the request from Bart. He has the full right to set the rules in the exact same method that you have on your site. You mentioned restrictions, however, I have never seen any ads on your site that may be considered "unwanted" as I'm sure you have extended your controls ( as you have the right to I might add ) . I believe Bart has that same rights in this case. Thank you for your time and interest.


(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:27 - ID#257136)
Sorry I have exceeded your linguistic capabilities.
Your problem , not mine.

Muchas Gracias y bueno suerte tambien !!

Hasta luego y sueos dulces, hermanita!!

Creo que es correctamente!

Tu eres una mueca hermosa!!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:28 - ID#398105)
Bart and Vronsky.................G'Day Lads.............

You both run excellent WEB sites.

Always take the Scottish approach to be perfectly balanced one must have a chip on either shoulder !

Kitco is principally a discussion forum, whilst Gold *Eagle is principally a GOLD information forum. Both good and compatible, but slightly different in format.

I would tend to think that most Kitcoites "visit" both sites daily.

Remember that you are neither Scots or English....the WAR does not have to go on for a 1000 years.........


(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:31 - ID#401460)
Good Point
This will now spread to Vernon Jordan and others.


(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:33 - ID#42365)
holy blow job batman!
damn its such a shame to see a trusted world leader to crash and burn. but oh well. i really dont know what to think, the media is obviously controlled, and it is responding with sympathy and how there are just rumors blowin around, and on the other hand we have the people that are dying for a scandal, not just for personal gain, but because they dislike BC.. well im not going to feel sorry for any leader of a gov that misuses his power. i hope the BASTARD BURNS BABY! then maybe ill get a little profit off me gold... hehehe well i hope the market goes nutz tommorrow, go ahead guyz get it on.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:34 - ID#270224)
Keep up the good work Vronsky!!!!!
You haven't cost me a penny, and probably made me a few. All the power to you even when you resubmit messages multi times. It doesn't bother me. I read the ones that interest me. Many of them are very good. A free education for those who want it. Quit wining Kitcoites!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:34 - ID#398105), I did not say that..........BUT, Tamara IS impressive ......

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:36 - ID#401460)
Flash White House Calls NightLine
The White House is calling The Dallas Morning News Report False and Malicious. They are calling them liars - WOW!

He is in trouble now!


(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:38 - ID#398105)
A passing thought ............

.......can't you get rid of Slick, and keep Hillary on...... !!??
They don't have everything in common !

I always thought she was President anyway ??!!

I must say that Al Gore has gone VERY quiet ?!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:39 - ID#42365)
holy interview this mornig with that speech dude!
did any one see the interview this moring with one of clintons advisors? hes the own who helped write the state of the union address. he was grilled for a while and dodged almost every question, and then at the end of the session was asked "Do you think he will resign?" and he immediatley in a very loud and strong voice shouted "NO!", then everyone was silent for a while.. it was too wierd, almost like he was attacking them!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:43 - ID#238422)
American language
This is from "Married with children":

Al Bundy visits Secretary od State's office to
get his driver's lisense. He needs the questionare...

"What language do you speak?" asks the clerk.

"Hmmm, what language?! Don't you know what language everybody
in America speaks?!?" asks excited Bundy.

"O.K.,O.K., Spanish..." says the clerk.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:44 - ID#270224)
Placer Dome and other Mutual Fund Favourites
Now that my adrenaline is up after people wacking Vronsky I'd like to comment on most precious metals funds and Placer Dome:

1. Placer Dome will report a 250 million dollar loss over the next month. Why? Because they are a high cost producer. Lousy investment in a global deflationary commodities market. Any mutual fund that has a pile of it is asleep at the wheel. Same goes for any fund manager owning Pegasus or Royal Oak.

2. It is a waste of time to try to predict whether gold will go up or down if your assets are tied up in debt ridden precious metals mines. If gold doesn't move or goes up slightly your stocks especially juniors can get creamed !!!

3. Stick with low cost debt free producers anywhere !!!

Prime Resources, Franco Nevada, Euro Nevada and similar stocks.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:48 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Haggis -- A 'Hillary', by any other name, will ALWAYS be there. Invest accordingly!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:50 - ID#372344)
@ Placer Dome News....Read for yourself.....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:51 - ID#189273)
Thank you, sir, for posting your little girl's photo. She is just gorgeous. Thank you for sharing. We always need a reminder of the sublime.

John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:54 - ID#24135)
For Oris

Have you got an idea of the depth of the russian

PGM mines - The mines here are really shallow.

The huge Amplat deposits start at 100 meters and they

work down to about 1000 meters at most.

The mine I own is northam ( the only marginal PGM

mine Ive ever found. It's breakeven cost is about

380/400 $/oz and the deposit starts at about 1200/1300

meters. It is highly leveraged to the platinum price

and if you're crazy enough, there are options on it


Also - What is the price of the simplest most

basic bottom of the line loaf of bread in the US.

Also Canada if anyone knows -

Also for Salty NZ and Australia.

In looking at currencies and relative values, we

all know the Hamburger standard. But they screw it

up now with tie in deals like free coke or extra

greasy fries - so how about the BREAD standard -

NOT to REPLACE GOLD but simply to assess relative

values of currency. Hard to apply asia ( rice factor ) .

But Ok Europe except maybe France ( french loaf ) PLUS

Govenment subsidies to farmers. Anyways lets try.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:56 - ID#238422)
Dear KO,

After you trashed my poor little Royal Oak, which
I love so much, I have no other way but to start
drinking again to kill the pain of my soul.

Have mercy, please...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:57 - ID#28585)
Yes, even Haggard Haggis & farfetched farfel have made peace...and people said it would never happen!!

The fact is that sometimes you have to place yourself in other people's shoes....and sometimes you have to admit when you are wrong.

Haggard Haggis warned me to stay away from PEGAUS in which I invested to turn a quick buck...he knew better than me and proved me wrong. I accept that...his sources were superior to mine...his cynicism served him better than my own Pollyannish interpretation of the events. He called for bankruptcy and that is exactly what happened. He had far superior insight into the "toughness" of Pegasus' lenders. His micro-analysis outweighed my own.

By the same token, I think Haggard Haggis has come around to recognizing finally the overt manipulation occurring with respect to gold in advance of the introduction of the EURO. Originally, I know he thought my EURO analyses were "farfetched" -- but I think he knows that there now is substance based on recent London Telegraph reports of German gold hoarding in advance of the EURO's appearance. In this instance, he seems to accept finally that my macro-analysis is incisive.

So, Haggard Haggis and farfetched farfel are like brothers now...awaiting the opportunity to meet someday, share a drink, and sing "WE ARE THE WORLD" together ( or something to that effect ) . All goldbugs need to remain united today and avoid the factionalization that undermines their contrast to the New Paradigm Wall Street disciples who, through the mutual funds cartels and index stock funds, maintain a much greater cohesion, thereby facilitating their rapid accumulation of lucre.

Naturally, it is a pleasure to have the free opportunity to access Mr. Kitner's unique site...and it is furthermore a pleasure to read freely the various provocative Vronsky posts.

As the infamous Rodney King asked, CAN"T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 00:58 - ID#270224)
Oris don't feel bad I've messed up too
Sell the junk and buy quality. I've done it too.

Short term pain. Long term gain!!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:02 - ID#255284)
Far from the madmass of crowds

I'm not sure whether it was a typo, or intentional, or perhaps the channeling of the muse, but your

"It is madmess for us to fight among ourselves for we have many enemies in the desert."

joins the kitco lexican in happy company with

speach, misconstruated, Braba, Gigital photography, ( add to the list.. )
BERT, gastronomer....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:05 - ID#287280)
Shall we discuss raw power?
Dallas paper withdraws story....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:07 - ID#238422)
John Disney
John, price of basic loaf of bread is around one buck,
may be a liitle bit less - $0.89...$0.99.
I always buy a liitle bit more expensive rye bread
for $1.79, my favourite brand.

Honestly, I have no idea about russian PGM mines.
I believe there are a lot of open pits, and also
so called "artelie" technology is still widely used -
- groups of individuals mining gold in the same manner
as it was done in times of Klondike gold rush.
These groups ( 5-15 persons ) then sell gold to the
state for a fixed price, I would imagine they do not
sell 100% of what they find...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:07 - ID#20137)
GC G8 Feb. Gold 3002 +31 +1.0 3002 2975 46.7K
SI H8 March Silver 5975 +37 +0.6 5975 5920 13.9K
HG H8 March High Grade Copper 7985 +10 +0.1 8050 7985 7.99K
PL J8 April Platinum 3826 -6 -0.2 3860 3811 1.39K
PA H8 March Palladium 23300 +180 +0.8 23700 23150 341

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:11 - ID#93130)
Bart vis a vie Veronsky
Although I do not post often and my posts are not of intellectual merit, still I greatly appreciate the opportunity to post and to read the valuable discourse provided by this site. Accordingly, I wish to acknowledge my support of Bart in re the Veronsky matter. IMO, no one has any right to post on this site, it is merely a revocable privelege granted by Kitco. Secondly, the Veronsky posts are in the main not posts made for the purpose of expressing personal opinion, but rather seemingly made for the sole purpose of encouraging others to visit his site presumably for the purpose of increasing his hit list for ultimate commericial gain. These repetitive commerical ads are often disruptive of normal discourse on this site. And, in some cases, the ads invite others to leave the Kitco site for gold quotes or gold charts which Kitco itself provides and thus is in a sense are comptetive. It would seem that Veronsky should be appreciative of having had an opportunity to post on the fequency suggested by Kitco rather then be offended by the restriction. This is not to say that the Veronsky site does not offer valuable material, as it does. But, it is to say that the Kitco site should not be used a shill for for the gold beagle site. That simply is not the purpose of this forum.

It is not the purpose of this post to be offensive to Veronsky, and I am sorry for any such reflections, but rather to support a position held by the provider of this site, which I am compelled to do out of courtesy and appreciation for his efforts - for without Bart and Kitco, none of this would even take place.

Steve - Perth
(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:12 - ID#284177)
Two Hot articles
Check out these two hot articles.
1. MOF Investigation/Arrest in Japan
2. MAI to hit Australia.

Link to the articles:

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:15 - ID#28585)
Apparently, it will be standing room only at THE STATE OF THE INTERCOURSE
address tomorrow...leaks are already surfacing that The Prez may regale
America with lewd, lascivious tales of Lewinsky's loss of "oral virginity" at his firm yet gentle hands...wild rumors of special video clips to accompany the speech and provide an audio-visual demonstration of Lewinksy's unique deep-throating technique...and a spate of DC interns testifying that BC inhaled their female essence...but never licked!!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:18 - ID#398105)


Vronsky, with respect.......

On our little discussion cocerning GOLD and India, you would not accept anothers point of expression and view.

You are correct in saying "THIS IS NOT FREE SPEECH". It is being paid for by Bart.

You could easily set up your own gold discussion forum, but what would be the point. Are you suffering from OLD SLICKs' problem......I have got a bigger one than you ???!

Get real, come and join the party.

Aye, Haggis

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:18 - ID#22451)
I agree with your last post. I rec'd post from the same person telling me I was off base. That I was posting matters not to his or Barts liking and that I should stick to the subject matter, namely gold. ( Tut tut, talk about calling the kettle black. ) His last ? no of posts ( many ) did nothing save bash vronsky or you.

Tell him to get a life! No, I'll tell him myself, GET A LIFE!, or as Tman said, "PRACTISE WHAT YOU PREACH"

Want to bet that he can't take what he dishes out!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:18 - ID#238422)
I'll give it a thought, but
first I really need a good drink, my
Russian soul asks for it right now...

Holy Cow... I got only one pickle left!!!

Need to run to Meyers...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:19 - ID#255151)
Kitco Bumper Stickers?

aurator--That gives me an idea. Print some of the "Kitcoisms" on some bumper stickers. I'll start-- "If you can keep calm while others are panicking, then you should wonder if those others know something you don't!"

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:21 - ID#398105)
Auric...........with will need a BIG bumper.........

"If you can keep calm while others are panicking, then you should
wonder if those others know something you don't!"

Talk about being an American ............................

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:27 - ID#238422)
From Sandvik lab...
Looks like we may have rock-n-roll
tomorrow in New York if gold breaks
above $302.50 in London...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:28 - ID#398105)
farfel.................Old Slick on the telly............

Got me confussed.........".....THAT WOMAN,......."

STRUTH, for a minute I thought that he did not know her?!

All Old Slick wants to do is to get back to work, work hard, long hours, AND HAVE SOME MORE FUN ! Nothings changed !

Bring on the next one.....................

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:30 - ID#255151)

I see your point!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:31 - ID#398105)
oris.............the signals........

....from London are there...........GO GOLD.

Who in New York is to stop it. It will be interesting to see what size of oscillations occur in the market ?!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:35 - ID#401460)
CNN _ Flash
Dallas morning News withdrawing their story of a Secret Service Agent witness having come forward.


(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:38 - ID#401460)
Feb. Gold

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:39 - ID#398105)
oris............ COPY AND PASTE

who sets the gold price ?...................................

Rule Britannia..................

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:39 - ID#93199)
Fidelity Select Gold Chart
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )

Today's sharp Peak could be a Trouble signal
for Short term traders.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:43 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Steve -- MAI; 'Masochisic Agglomerative Imbuement'. Just say no! Just one more method 'they' are putting into place to further agglutinate the world into their corporation ( s ) , while at the same time further diminishing and supplanting national sovereignties.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:43 - ID#237164)
more test

this is a test ... sorry for the noise ...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:46 - ID#238422)
Haggis, I'm not sure yet, but it feels like
some big guys may be interested in running it
up tomorrow...a little bit, not to scare another
big guys...We'll see, I feel the smelt of good
shashkik ( shish kebab ) . Tomorrow or Wednesday...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:48 - ID#398105)
farfel..........aye a sense of humour goes a long way...........

......have you heard that Pegasus joke.............

I'll let you fill in the rest ?! After you Sir !

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:49 - ID#401460)
Jay Leno "the Tonight Show"
Clinton is really good, not only can he get his Wife to believe him, but he can get her to go on talk shows defending him - Frank Gifford has to be saying How does he do that?

"The president is so saddened and depressed that he had to cancel his nooner."

"Gore missed the Game, he was writing his acceptance speech."

Good Night All

(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:55 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Looking like a time to also be viewing cotton now.

John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 01:59 - ID#24135)
Looking for gold in all the wrong Placers

For My brother Salty of the salt desert sea - I

sorrow for my errors in typing and in life and I thank

thee for even bothering to read my pathetic offerings.

I hopefully await thy tresured information on the price

of a load of sacred New Zealand Bread.

For my bother Oris of the Northern Desert Snows -

Thank thee for thy prompt gift of the price of a loaf

of the staff of life in thy troubled and unstable

country. may thy leader find succor ( ?? ) and true

piece ( ?? ) in his river of life. And not to forget

thy info on the Beautiful Platinum of Siberia. I

hope dear brother we may one day search for this

splendid metal in the forests and amongst the tigers

of that lovely country.

For the sacred but mad son of the mighty but nameless

Camel driver of the dungheaps of the fly infested

market place. I thank thee for thy offering of the

statement from thy marvellous mine called

John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:06 - ID#24135)
Looking for gold in all the wrong placers(part 2)

Pardons me brothers - My post was blown away

by the fierce winds of the desert. Bear with me.

For the sacred but mad son of the mighty but nameless

Camel driver of the dungheaps of the fly infested

market place. I thank thee for thy offering of the

statement from thy marvellous mine called

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:07 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Looking like a time to also be viewing cotton now.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:09 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Goodnight all.

John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:10 - ID#24135)
A sandstorm -- blown away again
For the sacred but mad son of the mighty but nameless

Camel driver of the dungheaps of the fly infested

market place. I thank thee for thy offering of the

statement from thy marvellous mine called Placer Dome.

It was truly a miraculous report. I was

dazzeled and I wept with joy for the shareholdes

of this mighty endeavor. I was somewhat puzzeled

however when reading that this Placer lost $1.06 per

share with a average price for the noble metal for the

year of over 325$/oz. I am sure that this is some

mistake, or perhaps the fault of my failing eyesight.

I laughed with happiness to hear that this placer

has such low cash cost - 200 per ounce - or less -

they are so mighty I believe they can reduce their

cash costs to zero if they wish.

However - with these costs where they are and with

their truly astonishing hedge programs - I cannot

get it out of my mind that they LOSE over one dollar

per share at an average gold price of 325 ( that is

many dinars my brother )

But Im sure these numbers are wrong ensal'lah.

after all al'lah is merciful - sometimes.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:11 - ID#153102)
Dizzy Mohammed aka John Disney aka Rawrence ?
There is former SU gold at GIMLF if they can get out of the country.

Would somebody explain what a Red Chinese Communist needs gold for ? I missed the gold chapter in Marx and Lenin For Dummies.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:11 - ID#287223)
stop-slammers R US
JTF: ( sorry,just got back from e-mail bin ) ....reach up ( gap/drag ) it way up to fake out the TA's and momentum folks, ie...hit their buy stops. Then wipe it down ( as in wiping out ) hitting those same folks "stop losses" ( sell stops ) . This rather discourages most folks, and they are not so quick to jump in the next day, when the real move starts.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:17 - ID#255284)
And soon S Africa to take the bat....
Such a simple question

how much is a loaf of bread?....the answer shows me the wisdom of gold. An ounce of gold is a standard. A pound of bread is not....

I was just about to sit down to the last 10 overs of Australian innings, and a quiet dinner when your question appeared.

Croesus! Thought I. I do the shopping but I don't know the price of bread. I know the price of many many other items on the weekly grocery list, but not bread. Why? Because I do not buy bread on price. I buy on ( perceived ) quality. Therefore I buy lumpy bread. full of sunflower seeds, poppy seeds, you know, lumps....not white bread.

So I hung up the net. phoned two friends. none of whom knew the price of bread. One was being visited by a neighbour on a fixed income who could quote me price, conversions into US $ follow.

The trouble with the bread standard is that it is very variable as to quantity and quality. A White uncut lightweight loaf cannot be compared to a heavy lumpy cut loaf.

Then my neighbour appeared, she had just locked herself out so I had to show her how to break into her own house..

Anyhooo....the data...

For the cheapest sliced white loaf at the cheapest ( U-pack ) Supermarket US$ 0.81 through to the wholesoome lumpy loaf at US$1.51

today POG in NZ$ 499.86

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:20 - ID#398105)
I always had a feeling that the left hand knew exactly what the right was doing !

London, New York, Soros, Rothchild........they are not purposely going to lose money, are they ?!

GOLD, US$290 to 330 range oscillation, until June and the establishment of the European Bank.I tend to think that it will have a strong gold support, possibily in the range 10 to 30%. The Europeans are not going to leave themselves exposed, a la the Asians.

I wonder what the "Chaps" would think ?

Aye, Haggis

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:22 - ID#339212)
@ Tyro - Gold stock performance in a bear Market

Lets look back in history and we may find the answer.

In the 1973 bear market the gold stocks advanced in phase with bullion advances. When gold lost some of its momentum they weakened and corrected to some extend with the market. After that, analysts labeled them as "countercyclical".

It is reasonable to assume that any upward momentum in gold bullion will result in upward momentum to gold stocks, even in a bear market, The problem arises when gold loses momentum, in which case there is a mass exodus from gold stocks due to profit taking and investor repositioning in other stocks, primarily blue chips. Gold investors are in general conservative individuals, and they will tend to buy blue chips instead of smaller cap stocks.

Having said all this, IMHO, I expect gold stocks to follow bullion, even in a bear market. When the gold rally is perceived over, then they will correct in a painfull manner.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:30 - ID#243235)
tvx gold
can anyone tell me give me an idea of TVX's mining cost per ounce? i'm looking at a very nice chart here, but i'd like to know if these fellas can turn a profit with gold near these levels. thanks for your help...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:38 - ID#339212)
@ wyzzard on TVX production costs
For the first 9 monts ended Sep. 30, cash costs were $221/oz. and total costs $319/oz

For the quarter ended Sep 30, cash costs were $213/oz and total costs $310/oz.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:41 - ID#261267)
Odds are...

5 to 1 Clinton finishes his term as well as about 5 to 1 gold
doesn't see 375 this year.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:46 - ID#339212)
@ Bfiler

My dear, this is an intellectual forum and you have to back up your predictions with some logical analysis, otherwise you will be attacked vigorously. We here need justifications, not astrology.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:48 - ID#153102)
If the Fed tells a member bank to buy stocks or index futures, can the Fed not just allow the member bank to show that as assets in the "capital" requirments ratio like the Japanese do for their stock market ?

The only way Clinton is going to finish his term is if he's got more wetworkers lined up his side than I think he does.
Were you reading when Congress gave CIA its blaness in the budget back a couple of months ago ?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:52 - ID#429245)
TVX production costs
wyzzard: I understand TVX has sold forward 500,000 oz per year production at $421 for about six years.

Can anyone shed light ( correct me ) on this?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:52 - ID#255284)
Black-Market Currency Converter --- URL Someone???


From the soaring heights of the thermal symphonies you see much, your clearsighted comments are always appreciated by this gabby fellow.

at home, the "welcome" swallows are beginning to flock....


thankyou for your comments from your New Year dinner. Last week we went to a Singaporean/Malaysian restaurant, had a New Year Banquet ( The "Lucky" dished cost $28.80 each--for luck ) --You may recall I mentioned I was in ( then ) Portuguese Timor before the Indonesian Annexation. At that time the Chinese merchants fed a very lucrative ( for me ) currency black market. Of course, they saw the writing on the wall ( Hey, I was at a Fretelin Rally in Dili ) and were cashing up and bailing out....

One could get more than 3x the "official" rate on the black market. So one could live very well, I recall developing a taste for chilled Mateus Rose on the grounds it was cheaper than Coke...So... the real oil on what the Chinese Merchants are thinking is the black market currency rate...BTW the first dish was a raw fish salad, that everyone at the table had to toss together, with appropriate New Year Greeting...a marvellous commune -ity feeling of Good Fortune......followed by some pretty wonderful chicken and beef dishes..

Gum Sarn in 98

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:53 - ID#339212)
@ Bfiler

By the way, I am reffering to the price of gold not exceeding $375 requiring analysis. No comments on the Clinton resignation.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:56 - ID#263182)
if bread is not standard, what about beer standard??
Canada......0.5l ( German beer @Beer Store ) = C$ 1.99 = $ 1.37
Kazakstan...0.5l ( German beer @street kiosk ) = Te 100.0 =$ 1.33

(Tue Jan 27 1998 02:56 - ID#255151)

In the face of crisis in the Executive Branch, the markets have been remarkably calm. It's not just Clinton on the line here. There is a cloud over the Departments of Justice, Commerce, and Agriculture, to name just a few. The Executive Branch is going to be laid bare by these independent prosecutors. It will then be all over the internet, and in the mainstream media. Congress may even stiffen its spine and use its Constitutonal powers to turn the Executive Branch inside out. My question is--How will this affect the Markets?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:05 - ID#339212)
@ GW on TVX
Third quarter gold production ending Sep 30 for TVX was 89,400 ozs of gold and 1.2 million ozs of silver.

So the approximate TVX gold production will be around 360,000 ozs of gold for the year. Yes, they have forward sold but NOT 500,000 ozs. of gold per year.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:19 - ID#398105)
IDT and Myrmidon - Why invest in indonesia? Not in the short term

Now, I know that this is a scary thought............

If I ruled the world, and wanted to get access to future gold oil production, where would I go........Indonesia.

80% of all islands contain know geological resources of gold, precious and base metals. There are in excess of 13 000 islands. Exploration over the last 25 years has been sucessful in outlining significant mineral resources, including 32 Mt Cu, 3 700 t Au, 13 Mt Ni, 0.13 Mt Sn, 5 000 Mt coal.............and others.

The problem is undertaking the exploration, development and operations under a climate of increasing political and financial risk. The key issue is to reduce risk exposure. Solution, collapse the currency, got you by the balls, hearts and minds to follow ?!

BreX, irrespective of the end results, was a good example of the increasing political and financial risk. The Government stepped in a "acquired" how much ????? Read all about it........

Rich country........

The Bre-X Files: the truth is out there.
The Miner

Register of Indonesian gold 1997.
Subiaco, WA: Resource Information Unit.
154 pages; figures, plates, tables

Indonesia - gold production and potential.
Davis-W; van-Leeuwen-T-M
Proceedings of the Australian Gold Conference, Perth, 31 March-1 April, 1992. Perth:
Chamber of Mines and Energy of Western Australia.
p47-57; 2 fig, 4 ref, 4 tables

South-East Asian oil, gas, coal and mineral deposits.
Oxford: Clarendon Press.
xv, 265 pages; figures, references

Anatomy of a mine: the discovery and development of Grasberg.
p16-20; 2 fig, 2 plates, 3 ref, 1 table

The petroleum potential of the Pacific region.
Thompson's Oil and Gas Year Book, 1980-81. Chippendale, NSW: Thompson
p60-71; 1 fig

Economic impact of expanding copper and gold production the South East Asian region.
Porphyry Related Copper and Gold Deposits of the Asia Pacific Region, organised by the
Australian Mineral Foundation, Cairns, 12-13 August, 1996. Conference proceedings.
Glenside, SA: the Foundation.
16 Pages; 3 fig, 3 tables

Porphyry Related Copper and Gold Deposits of the Asia Pacific Region, organised by the
Australian Mineral Foundation, Cairns, 12-13 August, 1996. Conference proceedings.
Glenside, SA: Australian Mineral Foundation.
190 pages; figures, references, tables

Factors affecting future crude oil production in South East Asia.
Outlook 96. Proceedings of the National Agricultural and Resources Outlook Conference,
Canberra, 6-8 February, 1996. Volume 3. Minerals and Energy. Canberra: Australian
Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics.
p416-421; 2 tables

Gold distribution, production and potential in Indonesia.
Carlile-J-C; Heesterman-I-J-L; Mitchell-A-H-G
Australasian Institute of Mining and Metallurgy. Bulletin
p42-46; 6 fig, 2 ref, 1 table

Epithermal gold deposits of the southwest Pacific.
White-N-C; Leake-M-J; McCaughey-S-N; Parris-B-W
Journal of Geochemical Exploration
p87-136; 1 appx, 2 fig, 282 ref, 6 tables

Oil production and macroeconomic adjustment in the Indonesian economy.
Harvie-C; Thaha-A
Energy Economics
p253-270; 6 fig, 12 ref, 8 tables

Magmatic arcs and associated gold and copper mineralization in Indonesia.
Carlile-J-C; Mitchell-A-H-G
Journal of Geochemical Exploration
p91-142; 16 fig, 113 ref, 3 tables

The development of oil and gas industry in Indonesia: expectations towards the year 2000.
p26-37; 6 fig

Epithermal gold mineralization of the Circum-Pacific: geology, geochemistry, origin and
Hedenquist-J-W ( editor ) ; White-N-C ( editor ) ; Siddeley-G ( editor )
Amsterdam: Elsevier.
2v., xxx, 921 pages; figures, references, tables

Gold production and exploration potential in the South-West Pacific.
Mining Review
p15-19; 2 fig, 1 table

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:20 - ID#339212)
@ all

Why is there such inactivity this time of the night here? The Pacific region countries are not sleeping, neither is Europe. Is the US leading all discussion?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:22 - ID#255284)
Are you trying to confuse me with fax, mon?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:25 - ID#255284)
well it might be inactivity to you mate, but I've just learnt how to spel your name. This is what passes for high sport down under....

we are watching cricket... leave us alone!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:27 - ID#339212)
@ Haggis_A
You are right about the long term in Indonesia. I guess that BRE-X scared everyone, including me. You as a geologist could answer one question that a friend asked me and I did not know the answer.

Are gold deposits equally distributed over the earth? If so, vast areas like China and India should have great deposits not found yet. What are your views?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:28 - ID#398105)
Bfiler..............G'Day Mate

What are the odds of you saying ANYTHING sensible.......

10 to 1, 100 to 1, 1000 to 1............surely not more.

Watch the news !!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:35 - ID#255284)
This is the third and therefore final, final of the World Series of Cricket. The teams. S Africa and Australia have each won one game. Each team has magnificent players and there are new faces that are hinting at a brilliant future for this International Sport.
Course the game of S E Asian is Badmington.

It has to do with available space in the cities. SE Asian diplomacy is v interesting. Malaysia and NZ have had a cordial relationship for several decades...

Bacher caught 45 off 51 balls....great innings....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:36 - ID#398105)

No, gold is not evenly distributed around the world. GOLD IS RARE !!!

The old saying - "Gold is where you find it", is certainly true. However gold mineralisation is not a "random" event, but occurs constrained and described by geological models.

An accessible publication, cheap too, is the USGS Geological Survey Bulletin 1693, which describes 39 models of gold mineralisation.

You can order this from: Books and Open File Reports Section, USGS, Federal Centre, Box 25425, Denver, Co 80225. Cost approx US$25.

Aye, Haggis

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:40 - ID#255284)
another wicket
Promising youngster knocked his own bails deflecting a Yorker. Trap for young players.

( am I makin a point, american amigos? )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:44 - ID#398105) can easily stuff up a gold mine

A little story.......

A couple of years ago, a Pommie Group ( Englishmen ) formed a syndicate and bought a gold mine called MacPhersons Reward near Coolgardie in Western Australia.

They comissioned a local "in-experienced" management group to run this mine for them, expecting the moon, the sun, the stars.........

This did not happen, and before they knew it they had lost their money, 5 million pounds.

Now, this was not a large mine. The poms have gone, and the mine is now making money under new management !

Gold is rare, and gold mining is not easy.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:47 - ID#398105)
aurator... a yuppie is still a yuppie...look at Clinton...caught with his pants down

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:47 - ID#339212)
@ Haggis and aurator
Thanks Haggis for the info. I am going to get some sleep now, before I do so, some words for aurator.

I think a good alternate name can be "orator". You have such a good use of words.

Do you have good fish & chips shops over there? Last year when I was in England a always had for lunch and dinner fish & chips in the pubs, and of course some of that good English beer. Something I really miss in the US. And talking about prices, 4 pounds gets you a lot of fish and chips in a nice pub.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:50 - ID#255284)
it bears repeating...

Haggis, aye..

Gold.--- rare, precious and beautiful.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:52 - ID#398105)
aurator......a wee bit of light reading..........

(Tue Jan 27 1998 03:54 - ID#339212)
@ Haggis and Orator!

You missed something:

Gold is not only rare, but also CHEAP!

Good night, or better for you, good day.

John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 04:08 - ID#24135)
Bit of trouble with the old feet -
For the Salty Chieftain -

I noted with fear that you quoted your bread price

in US $. Have your lands already fallen to these wild and

warlike barbarians in their never endending quest for gold,

oil, and young maidens for their leader's nefarious purposes ?

I trust not enshal'lah. And may I have that price in terms

of your native currency. May your loaves increase -

Al'lah O Akbar

(Tue Jan 27 1998 04:14 - ID#255284)
from your golden heart

Thank you for your kind words.

Yes, gold is cheap, I hope your loved ones are listening to you. Mine are coming around ;- )

Eagerly looking in my mail box for my gold bug t-shirt....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 04:22 - ID#255284)
Can do

Um, who you calling smelly feet?

In $ Mickey Mouse, sorry, I mean NZ$1.40 for white death, sliced of no nutritional value ( eat the plastic wrapper ) to NZ$2.60 for lumpy bread that the ducks choke on.


mellons for ecstacy

(Tue Jan 27 1998 04:23 - ID#398105)
It's trying..........

Gold is trying to get ahead of US$300 in London.....

will New York try and push it back down ?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 04:25 - ID#255284)
sporting harmony
Crusty/Nics/strines & Rainbow nation people
u watching the game?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 04:27 - ID#255284)
no fishes...
Please leave my loaves out of any future posts. BC is supplying all the sallacious material on this thread, at the moment.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 04:27 - ID#398105)
Aye, Gold is dollar terms........

Tell that to the families of the South African mine workers who have died over the years............

(Tue Jan 27 1998 04:38 - ID#255284)
it is a question of value------
Noone means any disrespect to those that have found their lived over in the quest for gold. Thank you for reminding us that this quest is indeed an heroic quest. We can easily take for granted the high cost of winning this rare, precious and beautiful metal.

We do well to remember.

which is why i like to remember the Chilkoot. step step step.... AuProducer sent me a lovely photo book on the Goldrush a week or so ago and, a nugget from his mine. I have no idea how such a nugget was found and refined but i have seen the light in the eyes of the children...

Another Gilchrist stumping! Pollock out for 28.b Bevan/

(Tue Jan 27 1998 04:41 - ID#228283)

Methinks the theives and scoundrels on this floor will look at their decks and try to run the stops in both directions. You know their rule is to fade the "paper."

(Tue Jan 27 1998 04:44 - ID#228283)

sorry...good day from the chilly midwest.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 05:38 - ID#284255)
Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oie, Oie, Oie,
Cap't Steve just took a great catch.
7 for 184
Go for it Steve
Ball flies
A long sweet curve
Toward the stand
A certain four
An arc of pure delight.

Fields man - however
Has that sweet arc in eye
Judges and assesses it
Measures the pace
The inclination
Direction and altitude
Estimates with brilliant intuition
The fall of ball
And, input perfected
Places with fleet foot
His hands to intercept;
Oh perfect judgment
Superb skill; that fleet foot;
That mind computing the moment!

Dear Lord,
Man and the Universe meet!
The exquisite moment

Ball, dreaming
In the mild ecstasy of flight
Is invested,
Rests docile, in the captors hands,

Fieldsman, assured
Of all certain skills
Tosses the ball
Full forty feet
Into the blue empyrean
Saying thus to all
Behold me Master of this ball.
And ball obedient returns.
Sweet skills.

Oh to be alive. To be here
Such sweet perfection!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 05:43 - ID#248180)
John Disney @ 01:59 - "Siberian Platinum"
John & Oris - Sorry to butt in; regarding Russia/Siberia Platinum. I am aware that Mr. Nigel Edwards of T. Hoare & Co, London, has a good deal of current information and ongoing exploration information about Russian Platinum and Western Companies in place with solid joint ventures.A few million onces at 9.9g/t is not bad for a start, on one project I have invested in Eurasia Mining Plc ( EUA ) on the Alternative Investment Market in London.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 05:59 - ID#304163)
Great site, the gold quotes at the top of the page really are out of whack this time.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 06:16 - ID#255151)
On a Lighter Note

Ex-Lax to be reformulated with senna. The company that makes Ex-Lax is Novartis Let's get some movement going in this Gold market! ( what the hell is senna? )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 06:29 - ID#20748)
Lost my bookmarks. If you still have it, please post url of Japan Echo re remarks made by Hashimoto.

John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 06:37 - ID#24135)
Strange but true ??
For Haggis -

South African gold miners are the only people that die ??

I'm very relieved to hear that and will stay well away of

the mines in future.

Ayeeeeeeeee Yaeiiii Yaeiiiii

(Tue Jan 27 1998 06:45 - ID#286199)
Positive look at gold - WSJ
January 27, 1998
Price of Gold Advances 3.1% In London on U.S. Concerns


LONDON -- Gold, the beneficiary of doom, is thriving on the misery of the
Clinton administration.

Gold surged to a peak of $305.75 a troy ounce in London on Monday, before closing at $300, up 3.1%, or an exceptional $9 from London's Friday close. Traders expect a short-term setback, but they say that if the White House's problems continue, gold will test $310 or possibly $320 an ounce.
Gold prices in New York settled Monday at $296.75 an ounce, down $2.90. "Clinton is the catalyst because U.S. funds were the buyers," said Andy Smith, London-based precious metals analyst at Union Bank of Switzerland. Experienced market investors are recalling that gold
soared during the months of the Watergate scandal and are wondering
whether further White House flak will encourage Americans to sock away gold coins and bars, he said.

"A domestic U.S. political crisis is a far greater spur for gold than international ones," Mr. Smith said.

Mood Swing

Indeed, such is the change in mood that gold is up 8% from its early January intraday low of $277 an ounce. In real, inflation-adjusted terms, that quote was the lowest for a generation, equivalent
to $79 an ounce, levels that were last seen in 1972, analysts said.

"The buying began in earnest last Thursday and sentiment is much
improved," said Colin Griffith, head of precious metals at Standard Bank
London, a unit of Standard Bank Investment Corp. in South Africa. Funds
that had previously sold gold short with the aim of repurchasing the metal profitably at lower prices were forced to buy back the metal when quotes jumped and broke through key resistance levels, he said.

The level of demand vis-a-vis supply is propping gold up for now, but
overhanging the metal is the possibility of unexpected central-bank sales, Mr. Griffith said. The big question is whether gold will hold above $300, he said, but he does note that even at these relatively higher levels, hoarders and jewelers in India and the Middle East are
big buyers.

Some Expect Price Drops

Other London and Zurich gold traders, however, expect falling prices.
"Supplies from Korea, Indonesia and Thailand are surging because holders
there are off-loading gold and flooding precious metals refiners," a
London-based bullion trader said.

Following recent steep devaluations, gold quotes in won, rupiah and baht
soared and local holders hurt by stock-market collapses and an economic
downturn are anxious to sell, he said. Meanwhile, producers, fearful that the rally won't last, may also increase supplies, the trader said.

Purchases in India and the Middle East are overwhelming sales from East Asia, Mr. Griffith said. "Bottom line, gold at $300 is a reasonable price, so unless central banks off-load large quantities again, the market should be much healthier," he said.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 06:47 - ID#328159)
NJ: Hashimoto Link
Behind Hashimoto's Remark on Dumping U.S. Treasuries ( Japan Echo )

And with that Hashimoto link, you get these free!:
Bre-X Minerals Ltd. [notorious for 70 million ounce gold prospecting scam] was sitting on a mother lode of gold after all -- or, rather, under it..
English Cocker Spaniel Gold jewelry

Verse from "I WANT A DOG ( Tennant/Lowe ) "

( Bulldog, hound, pug, labrador,
Collie, retriever, Dobermann-pinscher,
Husky, dalmatian, St. Bernard and dachshund,
Mongrel, cocker spaniel, cocker spaniel )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 06:49 - ID#20748)

(Tue Jan 27 1998 06:57 - ID#333131)
Wondering: Gold and the US $ under President Gore?
Clinton's presidency is dead. This is an election year and the Democratic elders will usher him out as soon as possible in order to try to head off a disaster in November. Gore will come in with great support including a backlash of voters against "those who hounded Clinton from office". What will President Gore be like? He's a liberal guys. He's a smooth Johnson. Remember guns and butter? This will be environment and growth and social programs. Contradictions make great politics but are disastrous for the dollar AND interest rates. Come on guys, help me think this through. Other senarios?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 06:58 - ID#432148)
Bart & Advertising
Bart, your comments re advertising here were more than reasonable and only an ingrate would object. What took you so long? Great site, keep up the good work, and THANKS!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:03 - ID#364147)
@ Cape Breton + Feb.Gold UP 3.90 @ 3-0-1
Beautiful sunrise-mornin on the chilly N.Atlantic..

(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:06 - ID#432148)
Carl - Gore & Gold
If Algore takes over with his lib views gold will have an enemy. Clinton really could care less about the yellow metal. ( We know what he has on his mind. ) Gore will fight the trend re gold - toward reinstating it as a currency base. I think we are about to see the Chinese, Japanese, Europe ( EU ) and others give it more weight in their thinking. All IMHO, and perhaps wishful thinking. Something has to be done to control the politicians tax and spend philosophies.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:21 - ID#364147)
Tzadeck(00:00).........................+ Aurator(00:06)
Tzadeck: Is this some 'sneaky' attemt to fool the censor-Kitco cop ( you know I can barely read English! ) ...Aurator: I'd relish that role and if nominated,I will serve~~~~~~~~~

(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:24 - ID#333131)
My fear and expectation is that "tax and spend" will come back with a vengeance.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:25 - ID#364147)
Trouble in the Land of the rising sun(WSJ version)

January 27, 1998

Finance Minister Mitsuzuka
Reportedly Ready To Resign

Associated Press

Japanese Finance Minister Hiroshi Mitsuzuka said Tuesday he would
resign over a bribery scandal that has led to the arrests of two senior
bureaucrats under his supervision, national broadcaster NHK reported.

Hiroshi Mitsuzuka had been under heavy
pressure to quit after the powerful Finance
Ministry was searched by Tokyo prosecutors
on Monday and the two officials were

The finance minister met with Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto Tuesday,
and national broadcaster NHK reported that Mr. Mitsuzuka agreed at that
meeting to step down.

No resignation date was given. NHK said Mr. Mitsuzuka would make an
announcement later Tuesday at a news conference. A Ministry of Finance
spokeswoman refused to comment on the reports.

An opposition group had called for Mr. Mitsuzuka's resignation and
boycotted a legislative committee meeting on the government budget and
fiscal reform. Their absence brought debate on bills there to a halt.

On Monday, ministry officials Koiichi Miyagawa, 52 years old, and
Toshimi Taniuchi, 48, were arrested for allegedly telling banks in advance
when the ministry would conduct surprise inspections in exchange for
$40,000 in wining and dining over four years.

The arrests followed a similar move last week, when a former Finance
Ministry bureaucrat working for Japan's national highway corporation was
arrested on charges of accepting entertainment in return for favors.

No bank officials have yet been charged in the latest case but prosecutors
searched the offices of Dai-Ichi Kangyo Bank, Sanwa Bank, Asahi Bank
and Hokkaido Takushoku Bank on Tuesday afternoon.

The arrests are part of a widening crackdown on collusion between
government and business. Dozens of investigators from the Tokyo District
Public Prosecutors Office raided the ministry's bank inspections division
Monday evening.

The bribery scandal is another blow to the Finance Ministry, which has
been widely blamed for failing to contain a bad-loan crisis that has
weighed heavily on the nation's financial system.

Government spokesman Kanezo Muraoka said all top Finance Ministry
officials will be investigated to see if there are others who may have
accepted bribes.

Opposition politicians, however, had called for a bigger shakeup of the

Mr. Miyagawa, a senior bank inspector, was suspected of receiving
dinners and golf outings worth $21,000 from Asahi Bank and Dai-ichi
Kangyo Bank between 1993 and 1997.

Mr. Taniuchi, an assistant chief in the inspection department, allegedly
accepted entertainment worth up to $18,000 from Sanwa Bank and
Hokkaido Takushoku Bank between 1994 and 1997, media reports said.

The ministry examines banks and conducts surprise inspections so banks
don't have time to conceal evidence.

Return to top of page
Copyright  1998 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

The Hatt
(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:37 - ID#294232)
Will the spin doctors save Clintons A##? If they do it will be a sad day for
Americans and their political future. It will prove one more time that the average U.S. citizen is merely a pawn in a chess game. When will the average working people of the world stand up to these Bas##### and make them see that we no longer want to play their games! We have the same problem in Canada, a political landscape littered with leadership that would have a difficult time managing a smoke shop let alone a Country. One day enough will be enough and someone will step out of the woodwork and talk COMMON SENSE AND TRUTH! That same person will lead our Country forward as a great leader.

Mike Sheller
(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:41 - ID#347447)
Kitco/gold beagle...perhaps a solution
It pains me to scroll over the past day's posts to see the unfortunate eruption between Messrs Vronsky and Kitner. When I first discovered Kitco as an innocent lurker surfing in, I thought for a while that Vronski/Kitco/gold beagle were all tied up together in some auric conglomerate manner. One without the other was unfathomable. It still is. Kitco AND gold beagle have been sister sites in one of the ugliest wars against gold we have seen. Kitco and gold beagle are on the same side in this war. They should be, must be, allies and friends. There is no question of free speech here. If anything, Kitcoites and gold beagle visitors almost all understand and believe in private property and the rights attendant to that concept. The question here is of accommodation. Accommodation between allies, especially at a very crucial time. I have been made to feel very much at home at both gold beagle and Kitco. I consider them, personally, to be the most enjoyable, premier gold and PM information wellsprings available to modern man. Indeed, the philosophy, cameraderie, general market observation and commentary available at Kitco is as a required course in real world investing and economics. It is precisely because participants are free wheeling in the subjects and objects they will consider in their concern for gold that makes Kitco something much more than just a gold chat. For gold industry folk, analysts, and investors. How dry that would be if that were true. But the vitality that is felt and enjoyed by all at Kitco is the result of many factors in life coming to bear on our concerns about gold as material and money. When we examine the building blocks of the gold market we are, by proxy, examing the realities and illusions of the world in which we live. Nothing less. Flexibility is what makes Kitco, AND gold beagle grand. Neither has to compromise its values, and each should be free to carry on its own agenda. We are all free to do that, and those who don't like it can form their own such forum, or business, if they had the vision and the gumption. I consider both Bart Kitner and Vronsky visionaries. And allies in the same heartfelt cause. I think that there may be an accommodation somewhere. Perhaps a banner at gold beagle that brings more people to Kitco and the Kitner business interests, and perhaps, in return, a little advertising barter which gives our friend Vronsky a bit more flexibility in serving our interests in what's happening in the world of gold. I would be happy to carry a message relating to such an arrangement to either party from the other.

Mike Sheller
(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:42 - ID#347447)
The corruption of Vronsky's website name in my post was a function of the software, and not my intention.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:50 - ID#398105)
Silverbaron......Munni Munni......your email address please

My email:

(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:51 - ID#398105)
Gold *Eagle

(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:53 - ID#57232)
Mike Sheller is not kidding -- There is a software bug of somekind!
All: I must admit last night I thought everyone was kidding about the software bug: eagle ( bird ) transformed into cocker spaniel ( dog ) . I made extra effort not to say

(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:54 - ID#57232)
I am still getting AEtherized!
Today my posts are getting even shorter. By tonight I will only be able to say my name!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:55 - ID#364147)
This is a joke
Q: What is the newest game at the White House these days?
A: Swallow the Leader!
Q: What is the difference between Bill Clinton and the Titanic?
A: Only 1,500 people went down on the Titanic!
Q: Why did Kenneth Starr go after Monica Lewinsky?
A: Because he thought she really blew it...
Q: Where did Bill Clinton buy the dress for Monica Lewinsky?
A: Seaman's
Q: What movie does Bill Clinton show to seduce White House interns?
A: Free Willy
Q: What was Yasser Arafat's advice to Bill Clinton?
A: Goats don't talk...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:57 - ID#364147)
JTF.....................and the 'New Age'
JTF: I am only letting certain things to be posted ( clean it )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 07:58 - ID#398105)
As the Nikkei goes up, Old Slicks' trousers come ....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:00 - ID#57232)
Slammers R US
Savage: I'm bugged too - so must be brief - Thanks. That means the players know the buy/sell stops of theie victims.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:06 - ID#424187)

Are these GOLD jokes ????

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:09 - ID#398105) this normal Canadian practice............

" And with that Hashimoto link, you get these free!: "

IT's DATED SEPTEMBER 1997............ a wee bit behind the times, or are you from Newfoundland ??

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:17 - ID#398105)

Japan Echo

Colins Financial pages

What you are looking for

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:18 - ID#424187)
spot price SHOWS 01/26/98 ??????

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:19 - ID#398105)

Japan Echo

Colins Financial pages

What you are looking for

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:21 - ID#364147)
Sable Island -Nova Scotia(a fascinating place!)

To next story
To briefs

Talk back!

Tuesday, January 27, 1998

Sable Island tourism dangerous, says


A former pilot's memories stand as a warning to people
considering Sable Island as a tourist attraction.

"If they start flying in there, it's only a matter of time before
there's a real bad accident," said Orville Pulsifer, who set up air
service to the island just after the Second World War.

"Those of us who know a little bit about it should do what we
can to discourage the tourist industry on Sable Island," he said.

Pulsifer's 62-year flying career ended for health reasons in
1990, but years of experience taught him to recognize
"dangerous things when I see them," he said.

"There's no place to land to start with; you have to land on the
shore of the lagoon. We used to land by color ( of the sand ) - if
it was too light, it was too dry and ( the plane ) would plow in; if
it was too dark, when the aircraft stopped it would sink out of
sight if you left it there."

The future of the 40-kilometre-long, 1.3-kilometre-wide strip of
sand 290 kilometres southeast of Halifax has come into
question in recent months. The island is inhabited by three
Environment Canada staff - two weather observers and a
handyman. But budget cuts three years ago threatened to close
the weather station, which costs $500,000 a year.

This outraged scientists who benefit from the island's
atmospheric research station, as well as conservationists and
wildlife biologists who study the island's fragile ecosystem,
which includes a herd of 400 wild horses, the world's largest
grey seal colony ( about 50,000 ) and a rich bird population.

Although the station was slated to close last March, several
federal and provincial government agencies, Mobil Oil,
Pan-Canadian Petroleum and the Canadian Wildlife Service
pooled resources to keep it afloat temporarily.

These groups are working on a draft conservation plan, and
ideas for controlled tourism, such as helicopter tours, may be
considered as a funding source.

It's illegal to stop on Sable Island without permission from the
Canadian Coast Guard. And that's the way it should stay,
Pulsifer said.

"An accident has to happen if they keep running ( aircraft ) in
there. It's all right for experienced fellows to do it once in a
while, but there's no way to stabilize that sand," he said.

The island's nickname - Graveyard of the Atlantic - has been
well-earned, he added.

"On a fine sunny day out there it seems so peaceful and safe,
but on a foggy or stormy day, it's the wildest place in the world.

"When I started runs to the island just after the war, a big
10,000-tonne freighter was sitting on the east ( sand ) bar, high
and dry. My second-last year, there was just about 10 feet of
one of the masts showing, and the next year there wasn't even

Pulsifer said he's also concerned about the island's fragile
ecosystem. "Those little horses beat the place up badly enough
and there's a little bird out there, the Ipswich Sparrow; it's the
only place in the world he nests, apparently."

But above all, tourism on Sable island is a dangerous prospect,
he said. "I've been in aviation all my life ... over 16,000 hours
in the air and I've flown everywhere around North America
under all conditions and the only accident I ever had in my life
was on Sable Island."

He said he bent a plane's nose wheel in soft sand. Although it
was minor mishap, "all accidents are major when they happen
out there."

Oil and gas companies are interested in the island as a stopover
point for drilling and pipeline activity in the area.

"That's the only thing that should happen out there," Pulsifer
said. "That's all right for the industrial people; they can afford
it. But heavens, don't have an accident with the tourist people."

Local | National | World | Sports | Matinee | Life | Business | Computers |
Opinion | Mou's Cartoon | Letters | Hotline |
Events | Horoscope | Comics | Caption Contest | Hit Halifax! | Staff |

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:22 - ID#364147)

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:23 - ID#364147)
sorry ....meant to do a URL for ------------
Sable Island.....S+P futures up 3.60

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:28 - ID#364147)
BAD long bond news
Employment cost index up 1% ( largest gain in five years )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:37 - ID#257136)
Tengo mucho lasientos. perdona me por favor (:+^)}[
I apologize to all and sundry who think I may have offended them or those whom I actually DID offend.
Offense to some was a deliberate action on my part. Mr. Vronsky being the first.

I shan't enumerate as each of you can recognize yourself in my prose.
And should you be unable, that in itself will prove my point.

Kitco belongs to Kitner!!

We are guests under general invitation.

The keeper of the premises sets rules for behavior.

Bart, in an OH so subtle way attempted to enlist our support in reducing the gross trivia on the site!

I apologize personally to Bart, since it is his domain we have soiled with the b.s. of the past 24

I apologize to Vronsky.

I admit I was too thick to recognize his symptoms as I perused his very interesting site!

I apologize to Pete for my total lack of concern for the stupendous lack of erudition suffered by so many of the posters and lurkers.

I shall attempt to use only words of one syllable from now on.

I also pledge not to make statements the meanings of which are not comprehensible to the many "graduates" of our government school system. who infest this site.

If I have intentionally or carelessly ( due to my inherent insensitivity ) neglected to name anywhom I have wronged , defamed or angered.........

One more blanket aplology--I'se sorry fellas and gals!!

Another bit of unasked advice:
If you presume to set yourself up to serve the public, , don't be overly sensitive to the heat in the kitchen.

I now leave y'all fer duh res of duh day!! ( d'ja savvy dat, petey and tman?? )

Again, Bart--, Thanks for providing us the opportunity to learn.


(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:45 - ID#328159)
Avid Trading Co sees support for gold at $290
Cut, paste, delete space after hyphen..

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:48 - ID#328159)
Wot, no space?
The hyphen-space is gone!! but the preview comment feature sucks - new lines are deleted.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:51 - ID#257136)
@ John Disney Re: your 06:37 death in the mines.
Many moons ago, 1961-62 a compnay named Harrison International came to our part of the country--Moab, Utah- to sink a shaft for exploitation of a potash deposit.
It was a circular shaft, with what was then known as Galloway staging -used as work place for miners. It was suspended from the surface by cables.

To shorten the tail ( :+ ) --
One of the bosses for Harrison had recently been in RSA where Harrison ( he said ) set A WORLD'S record fot the most rapid completion of a development shaft.
His way of explaining the record and then policy of the company was "we averaged a N***** to the foot!" We'd roll 'em aside and load 'em on the last skip out before we fired."
We lost three men in the shaft in Moab and 30 plus in an explosion after production began.
Some men do! Others doo doo.

NO offense directed at you John.

Just an afterthought re: the recent acrimony on this site.

Promise I won't do it no mo'!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:51 - ID#258427)
Bart....Please check you frames display of prices
as EBN HAS Silver up to $6.08.......My oh My....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:56 - ID#258427)
Test beagle
gold beagle ...test out

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:57 - ID#258427)
Well...Ii'll be hornswogglleedd
What's going beagle....E as in Everybody...

Mike Stewart
(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:57 - ID#270253)
Technical Update
Here are some comments on the condition of the gold shares from my perspective ( whatever that is worth ) .

The new lows on the Toronto mining issues have not dried up. I like to see five, or less, new lows over 5 to 10 days as a sign of a healthy market. Not yet! We have only had five or less new lows three times in the last 10 days. We had seven yesterday. This is a concern.

The McClellan Summation Index for Toronto mining issues will cross the zero line today. We need +2000 to confirm a new bull market. If this occurs ( likely ) it will take a couple more months to occur. We had a level below -2000 in December indicating historical extremes.
In July we hit -1353 ( possible bear market low ) but failed to rebound to +2000. It hit +199 and then turned down. Failed rallies off levels below -1300 usually indicate that a final capitulation to a level below -2000 is coming. This is exactly what we saw going into Nov/Dec. This is encouraging. The gold A/D numbers must continue to accelerate here.

On the S&P/Dow, we have followed a predictible pattern since the summation index peaked in July. A decline into spring is to be expected. A strong rally will take place off this low into early summer. The strength of this rally will determine whether this market is finished, or will begin a new pattern upward. This will be determined by the summation index once again exceeding +3000.

The strongest portion of the presidential cycle will play into this. From the lows in the second half of the middle year ( congressional elections ) to the presidential election is the strongest. This is a time to get the dirty work/bad news out of the way. Think back to the summer/fall of 1982/1986/1990/1994 and look at the returns that followed.

On the North American/South African discussion, South African always outperform once they have been smashed ( eg 1992 to 1994 ) buy underperform otherwise. ( First half of 1996 ) Just look at the charts. They have been smashed.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 08:58 - ID#197289)
buying/selling coins, bullion, forex
Cook is certainly easy to deal with and convenient in you live in Toronto. If I lived on Montreal I would likely deal with Kitco. They seem very professional. ... hope this isn't an ad.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 09:04 - ID#258427)
Hey Ted...
SnP's just went negative...what the He!! is the price of silver??

(Tue Jan 27 1998 09:18 - ID#258427)
Silver at $6.09 as per
EBN....up ...up.. and away .....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 09:27 - ID#258427)
Do I feel that I am talking to myself ... where did everyone go...??

(Tue Jan 27 1998 09:27 - ID#426220)


Mike: As per your equitable and impartial nature you have given a fair evaluation of the unpleasant scenario - despite the fact that Kitco software distorted the name of our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE in your posting. You made the following unbiased comment on how to mitigate differences:

I think that there may be an accommodation somewhere. Perhaps a banner at gold cocker spaniel that brings more people to Kitco and the Kitner business interests, and perhaps, in return, a little advertising barter which gives our friend Vronsky a bit more flexibility in serving our interests in what's happening in the
world of gold. I would be happy to carry a message relating to such an arrangement to either party from the other.

Mike, our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE has been DOING PRECISELY THAT FOR MORE THAN ONE YEAR NOW. But we NEVER received even a simple THANK YOU. Allow me to be very specific.

Our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE has a section called GOLD CHAT. The introduction to this main section reads as follows:
Although there are innumerable Internet Chat-sites, we will only include those demonstrating high educational and informative content and quality. We are constantly searching the WWW to identify new market Chat-sites for their inclusion.

There are nine hot-wired buttons just below the introduction. Numbers ONE AND TWO ARE:

Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts - KITCO

Gold Discussion of Gold Stocks, Bars and Coins - KITCO

By clicking the button title the visitor to our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE is immediately transported to the KITCO DISCUSSION GROUPS.

One might ask what has this meant for KITCO? WELL, it is FREE ADVERTISING AND INCREASES THE NUMBER OF VISITORS TO KITCO. Again, I will be even more specific, and tell you how many visitors go to KITCO via our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE. We have analytical software which measures the EXACT number of visitors going to KITCO via our website EACH AND EVERY month!

Our GOLD CHAT section accounts for about 3% of our monthly 238,000 accesses from 110 countries, equivalent to 7,140 hits. Nearly ALL those accesses are enroute to KITCO. This means 238 visits each day to KITCO are being ushered by our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE, equivalent to 10 KITCO VISITS PER HOUR, 24 HOURS PER DAY, AND 7 DAYS A WEEK! Please visit the following website so that you may verify what I say as gospel. However, you might have to edit out the garbage in the URL as inserted by KITCO software. If you cannot reach the website, please email me, and I will give you the correct location ->

Mike, our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE has been doing exactly what you proposed for over a year now: Perhaps a banner at gold cocker spaniel that brings more people to Kitco.

One last relevant comment. Based upon KITCO website performance as per Bart Kitner postings - and in email correspondence to me some time ago - we estimate that our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE has more than THREE TIMES THE GLOBAL COVERAGE THAN THE KITCO GOLD CHAT SITE. Now I ask you, is gold beagle not pulling MORE than its fair share of the load in keeping international GOLDBUGS abreast and enlightened?!

Mike Sheller, many sincere thanks for your even-handed fairness in your suggestion -- which to belabor a point, we have been implementing for more than a year, sending an average of more than 7,000 visits per month to the KITCO GOLD CHAT GROUP. Would..., indeed COULD anyone say we are not pulling our FAIR SHARE OF THE BARGAIN?!

Should anyone need clarification of anything I have related above, please do not hesitate to contact me at

(Tue Jan 27 1998 09:32 - ID#258427)
Silver @
$6.10 as per EBN...Sure would like to watch it in the frames version...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 09:36 - ID#228100)
Ted, have you seen these?
Q: What was Monica Lewinskys job title in the White House?
A: Head Intern.
Q: Did Bill initiate the relationship with Monica Lewinsky?
A: No. He just go sucked into it.
Q: What was Clintons response regarding all the leaks from the existing White House staff?
A: Heads will roll!
Q: Why did President Clinton help Monica Lewinsky get a job after she left the White House?
A: He knew that she would be great in ANY position.
Q: Did you know that President Clinton is supporting a new math curriculum for our nation's schools?
A: He wants everyone to know that 50 can go into 25 without getting five-to-ten. Additionally, he wants to remind people that 16 can get you 20.
Q: Why did Monica Lewinsky get kicked off the White House staff?
A: Bill Clinton got tired of her complaining about the Oval Office ceiling needing paint.
Q: What did Monica Lewinsky call the place where Bill Clinton does his business?
A: The Oral Office.
Q: Why does President Clinton invite so many ladies into his private study?
A: He wants to show them his Executive Branch.
Q: How will Bill Clinton build his bridge to the 21st century?
A: As part of a federal prison work-release program.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 09:54 - ID#373346)
a.j. Your 00:08

(Tue Jan 27 1998 09:54 - ID#344308)

gold up $3.30
silver up 12.2-----

(Tue Jan 27 1998 09:56 - ID#373346)
I'm from TEXAS
I do read Spanish very well!!

Thanks Pete for your 1:18, sounds like a.j. has a definate problem of his own. This concludes my conversation with non-conversationalists who have a hard time themselves keeping to the subject.

Sorry All for the interuption, won't happen again.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 09:57 - ID#398105)
Variety is the

(Tue Jan 27 1998 09:57 - ID#20748)
Many thanks. Great site-Colin's Financial Charts etc.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 09:58 - ID#432157)
Bart PLEASE please FIX THE quotes

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:11 - ID#348127)

OK gold gurus, I was talked out of gold purchase last week by gentleman at monex who said wait a couple of weeks golds going down to 265- I believd 285 was its low- where's it going from here gurus ?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:18 - ID#424187)
BART ----thankyou

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:18 - ID#7568)

I had a conversation last night with a metals broker from one of the major Wall St. firms. He had some pretty good info on the silver market. The most interesting point of the conversation revolved around OTC options positions which will expire in the May-June time frame. According to his reckoning there was something on the order of 50,000,000 ounces of calls outstanding to one buyer in the 6.50 - 7.00 range.

In the current market 50,000,000 ounces is a lot of silver. If the price of silver begins to rise the options writers will be forced to increase their hedge. This will put further pressure on the physical market and will suck more inventory out of the Comex. I believe that if we get out over the old highs around 640 the whole market could enter the blowoff squeeze phase.

Strad Master
(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:26 - ID#250297)
I've got to se this for myself.
This is just a test: gold beagle gold beagle

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:27 - ID#261267)

should circle down from here a little.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:29 - ID#258427)
Silver at $6.15...go team silver....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:38 - ID#246224)
If you think that's strange ..
try buying some American Eagles, either silver or gold. I've got the silvers. A nice picture of a eagle on one side and walking liberty on the other. Very patriotic. When I see that eagle with its outstretched wings I thrill to the wisdom of our forefathers. How perfect was their insight to see that, indeed, the eagle was the true pictrue of our national destiny.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:41 - ID#246224)
Bart, Bart, Bart ..
no fun dude. I was expecting a beautiful corruption of the prior post What do I get? Eagle not cocker spaniel. But I must say you have a great and gentle sense of humor. Also are a very measured and moderate person. Thanks for your patience with all the rest of us ( me included of course ) .

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:41 - ID#257136)
Need for email address from vronsky
Vronsky: I attempted to send you an email to the netrox site and
cannot get it to go through. Please email me a:


(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:42 - ID#254269)
When No News is News; good morning all, I had another breakfast meeting
this morning so am running a little late.

Our local radio station ( KRLD ) here in Dallas, TX this morning had a story that the Dallas Morning News in its early Tuesday edition ( which came out late Monday night ) and on its web page last night had a story about
the witness ( apparently a Secret Service agent ) who saw the President and Monica in a "compromising " situation. THE REAL NEWS here is that The Morning News has DROPPED this story from the Tuesday paper, saying that it had a telephone call from an attorney in Washington DC saying that the story was "inaccurate ". Apparently, they also dropped it from their web page.

I have not yet seen any edition of the paper or thewebpage, but am only repeating the story that was all over KRLD this morning. If true, I find it amazing that a newspaper such as the DMN can make such a scewup of such a major story.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:45 - ID#7568)
Southeast Asia

As the crisis in SE Asia has unfolded I have frequently wondered why the various corporate entities saddled with unpayable debts did not simply walk away from their payments. Because the insolvencies basically effect all the companies in the region it is clear that a mass default would not be met with liquidation because the citizens of these countries would not sit by while foreign bankers walked in and vaporized their assets in a giant global tag sale.

This obvious solution of debt default appears to be taking place and it is very bullish for the world's economy. The deflationary scenario collapse is partially dependant on a vast liquidation of assets in SE Asia thus causing the price of neighboring assets to be written down. This liquidation snowball is supposed to devour the world. It ain't going to happen.

Instead what we are going to see is a transfer of liability to the creditors from the debtors. With the debtors walking away from their debts, the creditors are the ones going to be stuck. Since they have no real recourse in siezing the assets of the debtors, they are basically screwed. The debtors will remain in control of their enterprises and will be cut off from further lending. This however is not going to be a big problem for them. Since their economies are swinging rapidly towards current account surplus due to their devalued currencies, forex reserves will pile up quickly and will serve to be the grease needed for commerce. It will be cash instead of letters of credit but so what. Bottom line is that recovery may occur much faster than anticipated.

The banks in Europe, Asia and N. America are on the hook for billions of dollars in nonperforming loans. The response by western central banks is going to be the time honored one of supplying liquidity to make sure that the banking system does not have a fatal hairball. This will be done as usual in the form of lower than needed interest rates for the real economy. Let the presses roll.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:46 - ID#246224)
I must say that your RE-action to the subtle chastisement of 'cocker spaniel' for 'eagle' was entirely over wrought. If you were a true commedian you would have rolled with it. May I suggest taking your lumps and modifying your approach? Possibly Bart could give you some suggestions on how to post your URLs without the overt advert smell. A little onion and garlic, just the thing to take away that 'gamey' taste!

NOW, let's get back to GOLD.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:47 - ID#348286)
@Gold cocker spaniel
vronsky: I think Bart is onto something. This site is getting more press than ever now. Maybee you should create a mirror site for
gold-cocker spaniel also. This is getting a lot of attention.......

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:48 - ID#246224)
I'm SOOOOOO confused.
Cocker Spanielss anre not bcocker spaniels are they?

Strad Master
(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:49 - ID#250297)
Gold E...agle
OK, I typed in Gold E...agle ( tried it now with dots to see if that fixes it ) and sure enough it came out as Gole B...eagle. BART: If that is a result of a software bug that was purposfully installed at your end, may I respectfully suggest that there are far more adult ways of resolving such problems. If not, then it behooves you to disclaim it and help to find out how that happened to get it corrected. Is the problem that you have with Vronsky's postings that they take up too much bandwidth? That's a problem that certainly can be negotiated in a gentlemanly way. Is the problem that he posts the same thing repeatedly? As I've pointed out on several occasions with truly irritating postings, it is quite posssible to easily skip over them. My Kitco window only shows the first few words of a posting. I think that's great as I don't spend any time opening up postings that are repetetive, silly, or just plain uninteresting to me. There are many times a top discussed is very germaine to this discussion but it just doesn't interest me. I skip over it. Personally, I have Vronsky's site bookmarked and visit it virtually every day for one reason or another. ( In other words, I don't need to be directed back to Gold E...agle. ) I can verify that he has links back to Kitco, though. If what Vronsky wrote to Mike Sheller is correct about hit rates, then it seems that you are benefitting from the symbiotic relationship. Certainly, some sort of compromise can be worked out without having it lead to a public foodfight! I'm just a little fish who has benefitted greatly from Fitco and Gold Seagull. I really appreciate both tremendoulsy and would love it if you could get on with it. Life's too short. Many thanks for letting me express my opinion.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:50 - ID#348286)
@ I MEANT: Gold-Be@GLE

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:50 - ID#246224)
How will I post a picture of my new cocker spaniel ..
he's so cute. Just like 'Snoopy'.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:52 - ID#348286)
@OH OH ??????
I may be transformed into MoRecocker spaniel

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:53 - ID#318321)
D.A., I like your logic. I also suspect that there will now be a behind the scenes effort in those countries to make foreclosure easier if this ever happens again in the future. In fact I imagine that banks will now be taking a hard look at the foreclosure laws in the countries where they loan money. And if they find that the existing laws are unacceptable will refuse to loan there until the foreclosure laws are changed.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 10:58 - ID#246224)
So if you are thinking of getting that new mrtgage, just wait a bit o time. We should see Japanese magnitude interest rates in a while??? Some how I think that all these retching movements will eventually rip this boat apart. I just can not fathom multiplied megatonnes of liquidity vanishing and appearing, moving helter-skelter everywhere without some mighty seam busting. BTW see earlier post regarding the Peregrine/Cab company cokmparison to confirm your view. Also JP Morgan downgrade.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:03 - ID#286250)
Mozel--communists and gold...

First, may I express my appreciation of, and admiration for, your posts: they are expositions of an informed intelligence animated by political-passion.

Perhaps you will agree however, that in the analysis of less familiar situations, one does well to approach with neither prejudice nor bias, merely a willingness to assemble the disparate shards of information in the hope that a picture will reveal itself.

The facts in this particular case strongly indicate that the Chinese government has quietly, determinedly , over a period of at least five years, established--and executed--a policy of gold acquisition. To share with you a few of the myriad of
the information mosaics:

( 1 ) The Council reports that China's central bank purchased gold
from both the international market and from local mine production as have the Russians from their mine production. Are there other players who remain unaccounted for in the "official" statistics?

( 2 ) "Metals in the News, New York Mercantile Exchange - Summer 1997
China shows excellent long-term potential for growth in gold demand. Mainland Chinese have bought more than 200 metric tons of gold every year for the past five years. It is now almost a decade since the rest of the world first became aware of Chinas potential, but gold demand is not growing in the country. The reason for that lies in the stranglehold of regulations surrounding the gold market."

( 3 ) Chinese law specifies that all Chinese gold mines, including foreign invested joint ventures, must sell all of their production to the Chinese central bank, the People's Bank of China ( PBOC ) at 90 per cent of international market price...

As to Why these Red Communists want gold...well, that is Another story...{:- )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:04 - ID#246224)
They knew this before, re: insufficient bankrupcy laws, etc. Greed will slowly move ya to greater risk taking till you are essentially out on a limb in a big way. So it is and ever shall be.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:06 - ID#197289)

Would you know if those calls were naked or covered? ( Sounds like I might be talking about that women and BC ) . If they were covered and the silver comes from sources other than Comex then it would not have to be purchased. But if they were naked, in the money and the silver called then there would be some scrambling to supply the silver. Any more info?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:09 - ID#246224)
Any comments on the recent re-appearance of Heavy Hitter (Big Bucks) ID#403159
1/26/98 22:38 posting?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:10 - ID#7568)

I think that we have seen the bottom in rates on the long end. The short end which is not a market rate will continue to be left lower than it should be in the face of rising inflationary pressures. Because this leads to a more rapid rate of asset capitalization than would otherwise occur we will see continued strength in broad money growth. Asset values will continue to rise, some more spectacularly than others. I'm hoping that silver falls into the spectacular category.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:13 - ID#304163)
Gold Bagle?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:15 - ID#23782)
Would the option holder of 50mil oz. exercise
if they were out of the money?


buy 50mil oz. in the cash market?

I believe choice number 2 would cost more.
I believe silver would go well over $7 per oz.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:24 - ID#20137)
Bart PLEASE fix the pm quotes.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:24 - ID#153102)
I did not question that the RCC are acquiring gold. I just wonder if spending all that foreign exchange accummulated from the labor of the workers on gold might produce ( or even be an indicator of ) concealed ideological strains among the comrades. After all, what, save communist ideology, is the glue for this regime ?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:25 - ID#254269)
@ Allen(USA); A question for you; yesterday afternoon you posted a commentary

about the directionless Dow and the churning that was going on. After reading it, I got to thinking ( always dangerous for me ) and was wondering if there should be any sort of correlation between volume osf shares traded and points up or down in the market. For example, if there are 500 million shares traded, what "should" be a respective point movement ? Do you have any thoughts on this and if so ,could you let me know ? Thanks in advance.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:28 - ID#20137)
My view is that the PPT was told to generate a plus day for the president 's state of union speach. They bought futures as per usual. No one else joined in because of all the worrisome things going on at the moment.

Thus we have had a very strong DOW rise today on very LOW volume. Not a bullish sign for the DOW in muy opinion.

They pm's are looking just GREAT.

Bart please fix the quotes.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:31 - ID#7568)

I have no specific information as to the state of the hedge on these calls. I have some inkling as to the parties involved and most likely these are uncovered except for whatever delta hedging may be going on to protect the position.

In general these games work as follows. Party A has a bullish opinion on a commodity, in this case silver. Party B is a major metals broker that does lots of commercial trading along with running a spec book. Party A asks for a market to be made for a large slug of calls. Party B looks around at the current implied vols, adds a few percent and comes back with an offer. If A is happy then the deal goes down. B may try to lay of some of his action directly with a producer or some other entity wishing to generate some income from a stockpile. If he is successful so be it and he keeps a flat book and has just made some money on being a broker. If he is unsuccessful, or has an opinion of the market, he may just introduce a hedging program to keep is options covered. If he has gotten enough implied vol versus the cost of maintaining the hedge ( largely a function of how rapidly the price swings back and forth on its way to going wherever ) then he is ok. B's big nightmare is a market where it is impossible to maintain a proper hedge due to illiquidity and rapid price movement.

In any event, with the strikes up in 6.50 - 7.00 range, one must consider what is the objective of A. If someone is going to take delivery on $350,000,000 worth of silver, they must be getting into it for a good ride. If these options are exercised, that chunk of silver is not going to appear back on the market for at least a couple of bucks.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:32 - ID#65207)
Please read the instructions on the box...

Please go on the frame and reload with you right button.

You will discover the right time and the right quotes.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:34 - ID#286230)
mozel: What is the RCC?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:35 - ID#206358)
Fresh news:
good nite!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:43 - ID#251268)
Don't know of any reason someone would exer. their option if it was out of the money,you still have commisions so why not go at the market?Is it because the market is to thin or what would make a person go in at a loss?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:43 - ID#153102)
@selby RCC = Red Chinese Communists from previous post
Previous post was just an idle question for the China watchers.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:43 - ID#318118)
Since the Asian crisis and Clinton drama began I have seen many posts
to this forum that elude to surprise that the citizens of this country or that country are not showing political or physical action in responce.

I can only speak for the USA, but I believe you folks are making an
assumption that our population 1 ) is reasonably intellegent and 2 ) that they really give a hoot. The mood of this nation is passive. Everyone seems to think it is all one big soap opera that really won't affect
them. Our political climate since Nixon has been one of complacement
Go ABX, please!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:52 - ID#246224)
I am clueless, mon frer. DA could probably give you a much better answer than I could ever hope to do. I looked at the over all broad pattern and guessed about what might cause this aimlessness in general price movement considering the fact that the past few years has shown a very quick return to trend ( ascension ) from any corrections, and considering that we are seeing a new pattern emerging which replaces this, a muddling if you will. These are complicated days. Stox are being overwhelmed by commodities-like trading ( index ) which did not exist to any extent 10 years ago. There is SOOOO much of this kind of trading now, along with the massive derivatives operations and Federal Reserve/Treasure interventions that I can't see looking at this market with any kind of naivity would do you any good.

The amount of hot money is immense. I feel that playing this market would be like playing tag on the Santa Monica Freeway .. the competition is just way to smart, fast and big and they will not even feel you as they run over your dead carcass anyway! The amount of automated trading systems activity is truly mind blowing. That is why I think they can get away with pumping the PREMs as they do and have the market tag along like a small doggie.

I'm not a trader or even very experienced in stox. Just posted the commentary as a provocation to the more elite on this board. Didn't see any counterpoint to it though.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:55 - ID#153102)
I have a hard time keeping up with the volume of postings. Answering your question, law is not and has never been a source of income for me.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:56 - ID#287277)
Mozel, glue for the regime...

It would be an apparent sophism to declare, 5,000 years of accumulated habits, but a foray into that eastern world suggests that political organization--per se--has changed remarkably little! Titles, labels--western titles, labels--lead our minds in one direction, but the realities seem steel piers driven into deep, ancient philosophical bed-rock.

It is an interesting--indeed intriguing--question you pose. My initial thoughts are that the communism of China has always been a horse of another color; Russia, throughout much of her history, has looked to the west ( e.g., the official language of the Russian court was, for quite awhile, French as you remember ) . China has always and ever seemed far more interested in keeping the West out ( or anyone else for that matter, the Great Wall makes an interesting foreign policy metaphor ) .

Is it reasonable to suggest that Chinas policies, at this point-in-time, are modestly limited to gathering back into the fold strayed lambs, and so positioning herself that she has the economic ( to say nothing of military ) wherewithal to be a Major consideration going forward.
A fairly modest brief, actually.

Again, my thanks for your contributions to this board. They are bright
illuminations on dark days!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 11:57 - ID#377196)
Currencies- if today's currency world currency report means anything...
I'd say GO GOLD! Let's see if that's speculation or just prediction.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:00 - ID#197289)
Yes, the objective of "A" would be key to the trade.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:02 - ID#246224)
Consider a firm which has a contrary position and sells you on being the dupe. You, the dupe, find yourself hammered by the 'market' which is actually the party you bought your position from. Think it doesn't happen??? You would sell at a loss because you made a bad choice and wanted out ASAP. The of course the 'market' would be positioned to take you coming the other direction. I beleive they call it 'killing' your customer or 'blowing them up' or 'ripping their faces off'.

Read a book recently that describes this in the 'bond' market.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:03 - ID#365216)
to mapleman
those boys at Monex are just guessing at PM trends, just like you
and me. If you listen to your gut and your research, at least you
will only have yourself to blame. Shop around some; Monex is good
and reliable but not the least-expensive game in town. Silver and
Gold Report is a good source of insider information.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:06 - ID#23782)
Yes, too thin of a market would be the reason.
50mil is about half of the current comex inventory.
Personally, I have been assigned on out of the
money options while trading stock options on CBOE.
It does happen.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:06 - ID#254269)
Allen(USA); thanks for your response; it was just that your post yesterday had a

logical "flow" to it as does your response just now. I was just curious.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:10 - ID#246224)
This type of duplicity is what makes the markets seem to be a much scarier place to me ( even bonds ) . The information available to the 'big' houses is literally 'your position' on the battle field. They are in it for themselves. If they can get away with it they will use you to their ends, which is to say they will take your money both coming and going. Of course they must keep a low profile on this and not gain a reputation for screwing their customers. But how hard is that to do??? What information do you have on them??? Virtually nothing at all, whereas they have information on hundreds of billions of US$ worth of trades and positions. If they are the market, that is to say they have no other competition from other establishments, then they have you ( period ) . So we must always ask ourselves 'what are the characteristics of the market' I want to play in, eh?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:11 - ID#254269)
Mine closings; From Aussie Financial Reviews 1/28/98

yes, it's already tomorrow there now.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:11 - ID#251268)
Surely selling a option ( closing out aposition ) is not the same as exerc.,totaly differnt story.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:13 - ID#22956)
Thank you sir. I learn a great deal from your market experiences. btw, we are refinancing our 'pad' and we could have locked in 6 3/4 % or so but we are waiting for the rates to come down more. It is a gamble but I think it is a decent gamble, no?? ( we are moving from a variable to a fixed ) .

and..... three weeks for my winky?? Must be the great gold shortage. That's OK though, it will give me time to put more layers of varnish on the 'trophy' case. I used a beautiful mohogany with green velvet inside. Complete with alarms and search lights in case of burglars. And my BIG doberman is on twenty four hour guard ( he likes thighs ) . So get that coin here soon. I am spending a great deal of money on 'security' for an empty box. Tickets are currently on sale for a ( twice ) daily 'showing' of the coin. We have 'forward sold' for 1 days already. By the time the coin gets here I should have the second day filled to capacity. Anyone want tickets?? Price is negotiable..........uh huh. finish the varnish


(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:14 - ID#246224)
Thnx. I try to make up for what I lack in experience with solid thinking. Unfortunately that doesn't get me that far either ;- )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:16 - ID#246224)
EB varnishing the truth
uh, huh!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:18 - ID#254269)
Speaking of refinancings in Texas (E.B.'s 12.13); A friend of mine is an

underwriting manager with a single family mortgage company in Texas, which from the start of the year has ( for the first time ) allowed homeowners to refinance theire homes and to "pull money out". My friend says that his loan officers are taking three to four days to return
new telephone enquiries, they are so busy. Makes you wonder where a lot of that money is going to go ?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:19 - ID#22956)
I put you down for four tickets.

The Hatt
(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:31 - ID#294232)
35,000 open contracts on Comex Friday is declaration day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rumors regarding large long position taking delivery could have dramatic effect on POG. Think about it, current stock 441,000 ounces total outstanding the equivelent of 3,500,000 ounces! I SMELL A SHORT SQUEEZE!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:35 - ID#288399)
Andrea Mitchell just said Hillary would be sitting next to "friends" tonight at the State of the Union. Anyone remember a couple of years back when Andrea's husband, Alan Greenspan, was sitting right next to Madame Hillary; AG will serve anyone he's been instructed to.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:37 - ID#26793)
Taiwan tells China to take a cold shower

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:42 - ID#26793)
Korean rollover talks still dragging on!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:44 - ID#432157)
Please explain your last posting


(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:46 - ID#26793)
Indonesia announces debt payment moratorium

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:48 - ID#238422)
To The Hatt from Oris-The Food Expert...
Me too smells shish kebab all the time...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 12:49 - ID#26793)
Debt moratorium
I have been out of the loop today. Has that Indonesian news been reported anywhere else? Seems like a major story but not being reported on CNBC as far as I know.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:01 - ID#287207)
mozel: OK Good . I thought you might have meant the Roman Catholic Church. Since the Pope has been given a lot of the credit for the downfall of the Berlin wall and the liberalization of the the former captured countries your post left questions. No one questions--as far as I know that the bankruptcy of the the USSR was due to Ronny.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:02 - ID#254269)
Clinton was working the phones on Indonesia;

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:02 - ID#157190)
From Elliot Wave Site - ...Again the 10-week
cycle is due to bottom on the week of February 2nd. Gold has definitly
started it's wave B up but don't be surprised if the move towards 325-360
is frustrating. Especially for the next couple of weeks. Thereafter we
should see sparks in the XAU and the underlying metals....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:03 - ID#26793)
IBCA discusses the banking situation worldwide.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:05 - ID#254269)
@ Donald; Indonesia, This mornings WSJ hasa fromt page article (colum 4)

titled "Living Dangerously; Those who can flee Indonesia prepare to".

I have not had a chance to read it yet, but essentially it describes how foreign firms are dusting off strategies to evacuate their employees
if necessary in advance of civil unrest ; It says, while planning has begun, no major evacuations have yet occurred.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:05 - ID#288399)
Donald@ Indonesian "moratorium"
Donald, you're right; no mention of "moratorium" on CNBC so far. GE has learned to manage the news by cycling the bad news to after closing, unless, of course, they are absolutely shamed into reporting it contemporaneously.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:09 - ID#22956)
On Cricket......and gold...and dogs.........
You boys ( and girls ) down there should be paying closer attention to 'the open' right now. ya' know, the tennis tourney...Sampras was beaten... ( ugh ) .......who's it gonna be, and how will it effect POG??!? Answers to these questions and the next edition ( addition ) of as kitco turns, and rolls, and falters......and ( rights itself? ) ...Bad boy Bart ( if intentional ) ....but quite funny. Carry on Vronsky ( good soldier ) where is this ( B ) eagle??

oh yeah....




(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:11 - ID#254269)
@ EB; "As The Kitco Turns ?"

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:15 - ID#22956)
I now own a 'BULL CALL SPREAD'
go gold...

I also own some gold puts and will turn the free trade on 'correction'. Let us play from both sides and hope for a moving ( either way I care not, just want moving ) market. It is likely to be Jolly chaps? w/w


(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:17 - ID#238422)
Selby - do you mean bancrupcy of USSR or
do you mean collapse of USSR, when you
mention Ronny?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:18 - ID#262242)
Home Again
Returned home late last night from Las Vegas. What a city, we were there in 1995 and found it hard to recognize this time. The building going on is something else. Huge new hotel casinos are being constructed. Hoards of people, every casino full of people gambling. You do not realize how good our economy is doing until you visit a place like this. We had a good time saw the David Copperfield & the Sigfield & roy shows ( the white tigers are beautiful ) . Ate in some very nice resturants but the best was meeting Arden. We discussed the economy, the world situation in general and found our views to be the same. He is a nice guy & I enjoyed meeting him.

We will be in Orlando, Ft Myers & key Largo Florida next month. Any Kitcoites there? Would enjoy having coffee with you. Send me an E-Mail.

Enough for now, have to rest up for the state of the union speech tonight.

Reify, E-bird heading your way

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:19 - ID#254269)
@ Donald; Four U.S.warships are currently in Bali, Indonesia. Buried in the

WSJ article I referenced a few minutes is a small paragraph saying that there are 4 US warships urrently in Bali, Indonesia. ( presumablly to
evacuate Americans if needed ) The article says that the US Navy
regularly visits Indonesia but four at once in Bali is rare.
A few days ago, I made a post from Aussie Financial Review that the Aussie govt. is making similar plans to airlift Australians out if necessarry.
I am not an expert on Indonesia but from my general reading there is a
large minority population of ethnic Chinese ( about 4% of the country's 204 million people and the ethnic Chinese "get blamed for everything"

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:21 - ID#246224)
There will be no 'evacuations' from Indonesia ..
just long 'vacations' for much of the staff, combined with a series of seminars and other meetings.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:22 - ID#22956)
ebb & flow......?

I have four tickets reserved for you too...will four be enough?

away...trying to close day 2


John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:23 - ID#24135)
Some worthless information - please cast it on the ground
Effendim -

I have received the results of most of the RSA ( except

DDeeps - Gengold just in today - all numbers in Rand.

Beatrix 0.29 eps versus 0.27 last quarter

Evander loss 1.49 versus loss .72 prior quarter

St Helena 1.845 profit versus 0.16 prior quarter.

I make thee this pitiful offerring as a token of

my great respect for thee.

Now a certain son of a rug dealer has been heard to

say in the souk at Huf Huf that I am a propagandist

for something or other. My brothers - IF you hold

NA mines I want you to keep them. I NEVER want to

bear the responsibility upon my tiring shoulders of

guiding the actions of a brother. I merely ask that

you remember my words, and learn by your own

experiences. Do Not Buy South African stocks UNless

you already own them.

I make the following forecasts for NA mines should

Gold go by fortunate circumstance to $450/oz

ABX from 19.5 to $40

Amax - a dark future

Battle Mountain a dark future

Cambior little change

Echo Bay collapse

Homestake from $12 to $3

Newmont from 32 to 40

Placer Dome from 13 to 12

Prime R - I see many dissapointments

Royal Oak - excercise GREAT caution

TVX - see Royal Oak

In other words - I see dissapointment looming - ABX

should prevail - Newmont survive . But true bedouin

would prefer cash or the metal in some form ( I

believe but then effendim I am probably mistaken in

my poor judjment ) .


SAID _ DONT SELL THEM _ Listen to the advice of the

nameless son of the rug dealer in the souk at Huf Huf.

He is a true child of Al'lah

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:24 - ID#194311)
Hmmm....methinks UBS is short,short.
Gold prices stable after expected ban on Italian deficit reduction plan
LONDON, Jan 27 ( AFP ) - Gold prices were stable on Tuesday after
the European Commission ruled that a gold sale which would have
helped cut Italy's 1997 budget deficit is not compatible with EU
accounting rules.
The price of an ounce of gold stood at 299.25 dollars in early
afternoon trade on the London Bullion Market, slightly higher than a
closing price of 298.55 dollars on Monday.
A precious metals analyst at Union Bank of Switzerland ( UBS ) ,
Andy Smith, said that the commission's announcement "has been
expected for some time, it is not a shock."
Gold prices fell sharply in the second half of 1997, as the
market braced for a surge of central bank selling that some traders
had anticipated as European countries sought to meet qualifying
criteria for the single currency.
But Smith said that the market's fixation with attempts to
reduce government deficits by selling gold was "a smokescreen." The
analyst said that "gold sales in Europe have nothing to do with
monetary union."
Instead, central banks around the world had been offloading gold
reserves to switch to higher-yielding assets.
"This is a revolution in central bank selling globally. If
European central banks don't sell, others will," Smith said.
He pointed to huge unexpected sales of gold from the official
sector in Australia and Argentina last year.
Argentina reduced its gold holdings from three million ounces to
0.36 million ounces, data released by the International Monetary
Fund in November 1997 showed.
Smith said that the gold market had talked itself into believing
that there would be no large scale gold sales from Europe, given the
formation of the European Central Bank ( ECB ) ahead of monetary union
in January 1999.
But the analyst said that "the idea that the ECB will police the
remaining gold in peoples' vaults rigorously is far fetched."

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:25 - ID#254269)
EB: What are tickets for ? State of the Union Speech ?

The Hatt
(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:35 - ID#294232)

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:35 - ID#280245)
With apologies, but this is something of which we should all be aware...just rec'd..
Subject: FCC reg to charge for email usage.

Tell your friends, tell everyone who uses E-Mail..
This is to inform you of a very important matter currently under
review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has filed a
proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your
internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder
the operation of the telephone network.

E-Mail, in my opinion, will diminish if users were required to pay
additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an email box for
your comments, responses must be received by February 13, 98.
Send you comments to"">"""" tell them what you think.
Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to sneak it
in just under the wire for litigation. Let everyone you know here this

Get e-mail address to everyone you can think of.

FCC E Mail address

Guys, this is really important. If we have to pay for e-mail or go
back to faxing all messages, the cost is going to skyrocket. Please
make your opinions known to the FCC

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:38 - ID#254269)
EB: You haven't been smelling those varnish fumes, have you ? Did you inhale ?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:40 - ID#251268)
I''d guess
A little patriotic pressure on Texas News Paper,for the good of the people and the world,after all blah blah blah,besides we'll drag your ass to court fo evveerr if you don't have live video,do ya?

John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:45 - ID#24135)
Disney was responsible
Brother Oris

You have heard mention of the recent upheavals in

the land of Russia laid at the feet of Ronald Reagan

because of his promotion of the concept of star wars

( soon to become a major motion picture ) . Actually

much credit should go to my namesake Disney for the

preparation of the animations of star wars as that

was what star wars consisted of.

The russians lost their morale BECAUSE they did not have

the technology to make similar ANIMATIONS.

By the way, on my journey to the oasis of Huf Huf,

I encountered two Chinese people. They were wearing

sun glasses and sand shoes. I enquired their purpose

in the desert, and they said they were opening a

Chinese laundry. They offerred to clean my robes.

I pointed out that there was no water, but they

claimed they would Dry clean my robes with SAND. They

said many more Chinese were coming but they were

WAITING FOR EQUIPMENT. I dont know why, but the

story rings false to me. Can you offer any advice,

my brother.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:53 - ID#372344)
@ South African Mines selling ILLEGAL? stored Gold bars to show profits....
But don't take my word for it read for yourself.

I wonder if someone could forcast the prices of the SA mines with Gold
at oh let's say 325 after their illegal stashes of Gold bars runs out, which now should next quarter, I should not do so because of my incredible fear of you know who.

bernatz du ventadorm
(Tue Jan 27 1998 13:55 - ID#259191)
Vronsky, do I count?

As someone who has posted a real name and e-mail address
at the start and brought about his own outing? As someone
who, in the last two years, has done a much better job than
you or anyone else at your site of telling people where gold
was headed?

Does my opinion carry any weight?

Here's what I have said from the outset: You constant use of Kitco
for your ceaseless "Look at my site, look at my site" barrage
is tacky at best, parasitic at worst. Bart's site would exist without
you. Your site would be hard pressed to exist without Bart's
allowance of your shameless self-promotion.

Of the three sites where gold is discussed at any length ( SI,
Geld-Eagle, Kitco ) , which two allow for at least the potential
of balanced coverage? Change your format and your kowtowing
to half-cocked goofballs, and your site will garner some respect,
so that people come to it for other reasons besides that you
make it nearly impossible not to.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:00 - ID#372344)
@ SA Illegal ? Mines Gold Bar Kitty... try this URL

Clik under company... Doubts over Evander...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:02 - ID#269409)
Bart re Vronsky
AS far as I can tell, Bart has never dictated to Vronsky, how he should run his Gold cocker spaniel site. This being the case, I'm amazed that Vronsky has the Heuvos to try and dicatate to Bart, how this site should be run.

This is particularly true when we look back at how tactfully and gentlmanly, Bart tried to encourage Vronsky to play by the rules, ( several times ) even allowing him the EXCLUSIVE privelege of posting URL's for Gold cocker spaniel each time a NEW article appears there.

Yet Vronsky persists in "spamming" and now becomes a contentious, whining, complainer, trying to dicatate to Bart, the site advertising policy, and even becoming insulting and paranoid.

Hey Vronsky, quit being so defensive about your site. Lot's of people love your site and NO ONE has complained about it....It's a site that has value which you're providing. Yet that has nothing to do with what happened here. It's an issue of you're having the right to determine the rules at your site, and Bart the rules here.

In spite of criticisms from the likes of some folks like myself,as to some site participants, this site reamins by far the best metals discussion group on the net/web. Provided at no cost by Bart. Why must he come under attack for trying tactfully to prevent this place from turning into an ad forum?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:05 - ID#287207)
oris: As far as I know I mean both.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:10 - ID#38970)
Last chance - the ultimate clue
For the spiritually aware rock and rollers check out these lyrics. Don't underestimate the lengths we South African's will go to get our timing right.

Everybody Knows - Leonard Cohen ( Im your Man )

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed:
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
Thats how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
like their father or there dog just died

Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
and a long stem rose
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that you love me baby
Everybody knows that really do
Everybody knows that youve been faithful
give or take a night or two
Everybody knows youve been discreet
but there were so many people you just had to meet
without your clothes
And everybody knows

And everybody knows that its now or never
Everybody knows that its me or you
And everybody knows that you live forever
when youve done a line or two
Everybody knows the deal is rotten:
Old black Joes still picking cotton
for your bibs and bows
And everybody knows

Everybody knows that the plague is coming
Everybody knows that its moving fast
Everybody knows that the naked man and women
Just a shining artifact of the past
Everybody knows that the scene is dead,
but theres gonna be a meter above your bed
that will disclose what everybody knows

And everybody knows that youre in trouble
Everybody knows what youve been through
from the bloody cross on top of Calvary
to the beach in Malibu
Everybody knows its coming apart:
Take one last look at this Sacred Heart
before it blows
And everybody knows

Over the Hills and Far Away - Led Zeppelin ( House of the Holy )

Hey lady-you got the love I need
oh Maybe-more than enough
oh Darling Darling walk a while with me
-oh youve got so much-

Many have I loved
Many times been bitten
Many times Ive gazed
Along the open road

Many times Ive lied
Many times Ive listened
Many times Ive wondered
How much there is to know

Many dreams come true
And some have silver linings
I live for my dream
And a pocketful of gold

Mellow is the man
Who knows what hes been missing
Many many men
Cant see the open road

Many is the word
That only leaves you guessing
Guessing bout the thing
You really ought to know
You really ought to know

Stairway to Heaven - Led Zeppelin ( Led Zeppelin )

Theres a lady whos sure all that glitters is gold and shes buying a stairway to heaven
When she gets there she knows if the stores are all closed
With a word she can get what she came for

Oooo Ooooo and she makes me wonder

Theres a sign on the wall
But she wants to be sure
Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings

In a tree by the brook
Theres a songbird who sings
Sometime all of our thoughts are misgivings

Oooo and it makes me wonder
Oooo and it makes me wonder

Theres a feeling I get when I look to the West
And my spirit is crying for leaving
In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees
And the voices of those who stand looking

Oooo and it makes me wonder
Oooo and it makes me wonder

And its whispered that soon
If we all call the tune
Then the piper will lead us to reason
And a new day will dawn
For those who stand long
And the forests will echo with laughter

If theres a bustle in your hedgerow
Dont be alarmed now
Its just a spring clean for the May Queen
Theres still time to change the road youre on

Ooo and it makes me wonder

Your head is humming
And it wont go in case you dont know
The pipers calling you to join him
Dear lady did hear the wind blow
And did you know
Your stairway lies on the whispering wind

And as we wind on down the road
Our shadows taller than our soul
There walks a lady we all know
She shines white light and words have shown
That everything still turns to gold
And if you listen very hard
The truth will come to you at last

And shes buying a stairway to heaven

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:11 - ID#269409)
Silver, Platinum
Ohh yessss! SIlver's big COMEX inventory drawdown yesterday, has happily created yet again a repeat of the pattern of a sharp rise in price the following day. And this is especially important as we've broken through that all powerful $6.00 resistance. I agree with DA. we're headed for much higher prices in the next few months.

Platinum, yes! We need a good supply problem storu to get that $440 level. May even spill over to Gold a little!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:12 - ID#20748)
Lewinsky's Lawyer: We Admire Clinton

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:14 - ID#20748)
Try this url.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:16 - ID#402148)
Any thoughts on why the street is shunning RYO? New mine opening in April is blockbuster....yet the price stays stuck.


(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:16 - ID#38970)
There are many more clues
If you are interested.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:16 - ID#20748)
Story in Drudge Report.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:19 - ID#348127)
thanks for the earlier response

gold gurus. Now I stated what I thought golds bottomuld be 285 and I missed. Whats your guys hunch?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:19 - ID#286234)
Sweet dreams, Precious.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:20 - ID#286234)
Strad Master
She's gorgeous.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:20 - ID#255151)
Kitco Golden-Retriever

Gold @ 3-0-0. We have been "Gold-Cocked" this past year! Go Gold!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:25 - ID#269409)
@ 223...Silver, and price in February
Re your price prediction for Silver, which you commented on yesterday. I think what you MEANT to say, was Silver $6.20, not $5.20 eh??

You said;

Date: Mon Jan 26 1998 21:11
223 ( ) ID#26669:
Anybody here notice how well the Asian prices are holding up these days?

LGB silver hasn't gone to $5.20 yet since I mispredicted it, but it ain't February 15th yet. And $5.40 was in
the general vicinity. :- ) "

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:27 - ID#57232)
You need to look at Avalon's 13:19 post about 4 US warships near Indonesia, with talk about the Australian Governement airlifting out Australian Citizens if trouble brews. There is a real possibility that ethnic Chinese will be singled out of trouble brews. I do not know if you consider yourself

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:29 - ID#57232)
continutation of post to Jin
ethnic Chinese, but if there is any chance a mob might think otherwise, please take care!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:29 - ID#341293)
Bart ....

Bart, Just to put a vote in on the new and improved quotes at the top of the page. Back to old way please. It's a lot niced to see the actual amounts it's up or down. A range doesn't turn me on at all.


Spud Master
(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:30 - ID#273112)
"Step right up! You there, sonny! How about some SSC! Step right up..."
Excerpt from LGB's "Holyier than thou, My hands are clean, I didn't do it" shameless promotion of Sunshine Silver Mining - the little train that just could'nt do it.

Go to it, LGB! Walk it to Vronksy, you hypocritsky! You da man, roket sci-entistky!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:31 - ID#246224)
Keep an eye on those COMEX draw downs over the next few days.
If the number keep dropping on silver in the millions of ounces per day we will know that the game is up come friday 'first day'.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:34 - ID#57232)
Truncated reports
All: Is anyone else using ATT as their ISP? A few months ago I could no longer upload graphics files, now I can only send 100 words to Kitco before I am terminated. I'm getting paranoid! Maybe ATT can't wait for the bill-by-the-minute charge!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:35 - ID#341261)
From USAGold Site

"...Yesterday's open interest was 34,853 contracts. This source told us that typically open interest is at 4000 to 10,000 contracts at this stage of the game. The fact that there is so much outstanding open interest could be an indicator that some of the long are intending to demand delivery. For weeks, there has been speculation that a consortium of buyers will take delivery on gold forcing the market higher. 35,000 contracts equals 3.5 million ounces of gold and there is only 441,000 ounces -- all toll -- in COMEX warehouses and much of that cannot be used to satisfy contractual needs."

USAGold...I think you are going to be 100% right!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:37 - ID#20748)
bernatz du ventadorm
How about a funny 'bitch slapping' post like that of October 27, 1997.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:41 - ID#285233)
Golds Home Pages
All - How do you get hold of a home page address for a given gold mining comp.???? - Thanks in advance!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:48 - ID#31868)
try type in the name of the company and if it has a web site it will find it.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:49 - ID#238295)
Bart: My take re:Vronsky is that he should be allowed to advertise new articles once. I like to be updated regularly about the latest essays and studies on gold beagle. But the advertising has become a bit too repetitive of late.

Bernatz ( Hepcat ) I have traversed the distance from your severest critic to a strong admirer. Now if only you would give us a hint of how you do it.

Mr. HATT: If gold does take off Friday, my hat is off to you sir. But shouldn't you give credit to the USA GOLD site for originating this rumor?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:50 - ID#57232)
You are describing Japan post 1990
D.A.- Your 10:45. You are describing what happened to Japan after 1990. Are you still that sure that we will be inflating away? Or will we end up just like Japan -- desperately loosening up credit as everything deflates?

The Hatt
(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:51 - ID#294232)
Expectations of an explosive rally !
It has been a long time since I have felt the anticipation of an any minute explosive move in the POG. The tables have turned and fear once again weighs heavily on Gold just when all the doomsayers were screaming about golds lack of investment value. Major Brokerage houses are beginning to rethink their bearish forcasts and in fact some have made the move to extremely bullish. Recent FRESH BUYING by major funds has got everyones attention and I cannot see how the shorts are going to escape without huge losses of capital. It is a sinking ship for these boys and I am prepared to throw a life saver at my gold buggish price!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 14:51 - ID#341261)
and use the alphabetic index to find the company.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:01 - ID#254269)
Dow window dressing; At 7844 (up 132 points or 1.7%, 537 million shares, one hour to go.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:03 - ID#373346)
Go into a search engine such as Yahoo or Excite and type in the name of your company. If they have a website you can sort by website to receive their url.

The Hatt, great posts!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:04 - ID#338289)
OLD GOLD: Your suggestion to Bart re Vronsky is exactly what Bart was recommending to Vronsky in several messages prior to the blowup. Perhaps a good approach would be a once a day posting in the same time frame ( so we can find it easily ) each day and would highlight new entries but would repeat recent additions as well.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:05 - ID#261157)
You can try:

go to database,

can search by ticker symbol or by a company name

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:06 - ID#28585)
In a desperate attempt to create the semblance of a 1998 equities rally, stock index funds are pouring the last remnants of their cash margin ( averaging 5-7% ) into the Dow today.

By creating the appearance of a yet healthy bull market, they hope to appease the Prez's corporate buddies in advance of the much awaited, STATE OF THE INTERCOURSE SPEECH tonight.

Meanwhile, Fidelity remains adamant in its refusal to disclose cash flows into its funds ( Try calling them yourself! ) .

Yes...It's a great day to be invested in gold and silver!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:07 - ID#375108)
$300 and change...
To this greenhorn, the struggle for $300/oz looked very important today for both gold bulls and bears. The bounce to the north side of the 300 line at the close was a nice change. Go gold ( + silver + platinum + palladium ) . MORE jokes, Ted!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:12 - ID#238295)
Gold's close above $300 today was very bullish. Andy Smith sounds like he is getting truly desperate -- another good sign.

One thing for sure -- the yellow ain't gonna remain around $300 much longer. Either a big rally or a sharp drop very soon. Odds favor a big rally, but its not over until its over.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:26 - ID#57232)
Clinton Nominated for Nobel Peace Prize
All: Interesting development. Perhaps if I post this the "powers that be" will let me post more than 100 words.

Clinton Nominated for Nobel Peace

OSLO, Norway ( AP ) -- President Clinton has been nominated for the 1998 Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to protect world peace and promote democracy, three Norwegian legislators announced today. Clinton, embroiled in a sex scandal in the United States, was nominated by
members of the right-wing Party of Progress, one of the largest blocs in Norway's Parliament.
``Throughout his presidency he has been a guarantor and friend of peace,'' the lawmakers said in a statement.
They praised Clinton for helping end the war in former Yugoslavia and for standing up to ``despots who want to repress human rights and democracy's rules of play.''
One of the legislators, Vidar Kleppe, said by telephone that they made the decision to nominate Clinton in December, before his current problems. The nomination deadline for this year's peace prize is Jan. 31, although the Oslo-based awards committee usually accepts nominations postmarked by then. The committee refuses to release the names of nominees, usually 120-130 each year, or comment on candidates.
Members of national legislatures are among those with nomination rights and often announce the name of their candidate.
The winner is announced in Oslo, usually in mid-October, and the award is presented Dec. 10, the anniversary of the death of Alfred Nobel, the Swede who invented dynamite and endowed the prizes that bear his name.
Last year's Nobel Peace Prize was shared by American Jody Williams and the International Campaign to Ban Landmines.
AP-NY-01-27-98 1101EST
Copyright 1997 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Home | Top of Page


John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:26 - ID#24135)
I have heard that a nameless son of a flea bitten
dog of a camel driver has started a rumour that gold
mines in the magical land of South Africa are
illegal and have hidden kittys of gold. Forgive this
poor flea f*rt of a man because he is my brother and
he is a play thing of al'lah. I advise you my
brothers to bless this poor specimen and direct
your attention to the site he has kindly provided.
I quote you a sample of the material there -

..comment was unusual because the existence of SA mines' gold in reserve
has traditionally been a closely guarded secret. For years, mines put aside gold
for these "kitties" in good quarters so they could smooth profits in bad ones -
essentially a form of risk management in a volatile industry. The reserves could
be used to boost grade and output if a mine hit a low-grade area one quarter,
or experienced a strike or natural disaster..

Those of my brothers who have been in the world of
commerce will know that in reporting QUARTERLY results,
one's management, in their wisdom, will frequently make
reserve for some presumed calamity in the following
quarter or quarters thus withholding stated profits
in the current quarter to cover for it. Of course, at
the end of the Tax year all is revealed and the reserves
must cease. Journalists do not understand this practice,
not should they be expected to. Sons of flea bitten
camel drivers do not understand it either. Their poor
twisted and shrivelled brains have been too long in the
desert sun.
But forgive and bear with them. They are much beloved of
Al'lah who has made them mad and for his play things
Bear with them - give them food if thee can afford it
They do their best enshal'lah.
be kind and merciful - al'lah O akbar

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:28 - ID#28585)
The excitement is palpable throughout the country...Americans can barely focus upon their work they eagerly await BC's STATE OF THE INTERCOURSE tonight.

Already, gossip has it that the Prez will be more candid than ever before regarding the questions that are on the lips of his fellow Americans.

Some of the more notable examples include:

Did Lewinsky have natural oral proclivities or did the Prez have to mentor her in the finer art of seminal ingestion?

Did Lewinsky seek out guidance from Paula Jones in the most efficient ways to pleasure her man?

Did the Prez apply citrus-flavored gels to his Washington Post in order to provide Lewinsky with a fully balanced meal of both protein and VITAMIN C?

Did the Prez line up a national ad endorsement deal for Lewinsky, specifically, MILK, IT DOES A BODY GOOD... ( incl. white mustache and all? )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:37 - ID#255151)
Presidential Peckerdillos

R King: "Can we all get along?" W. Clinton: "Can we all get ahead?"

PH in LA
(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:37 - ID#225408)
Vronsky Vs. Kitner
Since everyone else seems bent on weighing in on what might better have been handled between gentlemen, please allow me a suggestionto Vronsky.

Your site has a vast amount of very informative and even innovative articles. However, by itself it is very slow and time-consuming to access. More than once I have left in frustration with the loading of nice gold-colored graphics and pictures of coins while waiting for more substantitive material. When loading article-specific URLs however, this problem is avoided. Furthermore, the leadins by Vronsky on the Kitco board, seen as hype by many here, do provide the useful function of telling us whether or not we, the readers, have any interest in viewing the whole article. It is really no problem to skip over a post that we have already seen and get on to new material, if that is our preference.

Please Bart, don't over-react to Vronsky's overreaction. I, for one, appreciate his efforts and would hate to see this matter cause a deterioration on your own site by restricting Vronsky's contribution.

PS. The G-Eagle bug does seem pretty childish but let me congratulate you on knowing how to really get V's attention in no uncertain terms.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:38 - ID#57232)
Dow going up!, Gold certificates for CB's
OldGold: I find this amazing! Perhaps this is the end of the month mutual fund surge. Can't believe it is the Clinton nomination for the Nobel Peace prize. A market rally may no longer have the bearish effect it once did, given the clear market shift we are seeing in gold.

By the way, I read one interesting thing in the book I have that describes how to go back on the gold standard. One of the economists states that gold is transferred from CB to CB with

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:39 - ID#404153)

I only found your 'chat room' last Christmas and have been lurking with great interest for about a month now.


To a newcomer it appears that the group sometimes acts and behaves like family, albeit a large and argumentative one, and sometimes like a bunch of men in a pub, with corresponding language and drinking patterns. And sometimes it's too far out to understand ( generation gap? ) .


After I sort the wheat from the chaff ( or the signal from the noise ) , I am left with much of valuable information, no matter what style or flavor of language it was delivered in. However, I find that the sorting is a bit time consuming. So I applaud Bart when he tries to limit the repeated postings of the same info and of truly irrelevant comments.


I am NOT a geologist, but a generalist scientist ( Physics, Chemistry, Materials Science ) and got my 'License to Practice' ( PhD ) more than 50 years ago. I would like to pose some technical questions that may be relevant to the very long-range cost of gold production and, therefore, to the future price of our 'favorite commodity' in the next millennium.


A ) Modern mineral exploration techniques, such as air-borne conductivity mappings, guided by satellite images, have made it much easier to find places to start drilling. Could we someday know of too many promising mining sites to maintain present prices?


B ) For certain gold ores ( is it only the oxide ones? ) , the heap leaching process seems to be cheaper and more environmentally acceptable than the older methods. Could this mean that eventually only mines with production costs below $200/oz will survive?


C ) Fritz Haber, the Nobel price winning physical chemist ( Bosch-Haber synthetic ammonia process, which made it possible for Germany to last as long as she did in WWI ) tried to extract gold from the oceans ( to help Germany pay her WWI reparations ) . I was told many years ago that Haber's gold process would have been economical, if only the concentration of gold in the oceans were one order of magnitude larger. Does anybody know of more recent work on this topic?


I know that it takes 5 to 10 years to move ideas from the laboratory into the field, so none of this should affect your income or Tax Returns for 1998.



PS I seem to be missing something here. Have to substitute ----- for paragraph breaks!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:40 - ID#347457)
@farfel and "stock rally
Farfel, quite frankly I don't care what drives today "rally". It makes me money due to the fact that I currently am 1/3 in PM, 1/3 stocks, and 1/3 in cash. Did you noticed that lately gold tends to move WITH market not AGAINST it? Diversification works very well and I you dont want to play Russian roulette, you dont put all your money into one basket.
BTW, do you really think that all fund managers are throwing money in just to please slick Willy?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:40 - ID#320441)
300 is a good start
$300 is a good start and a time to catch our breath for the next run. We are looking for $600/oz by the end of the year, with a quadrupling of gold stocks. This will put the PM funds that have been around a little over 10 years or so near the level of the better mutual funds in terms of 10- year performance.

( non-gold-related interpolation )

The big question to me is, Does she ( HRC ) believe him? Of all the Clinton apologists, she is _by_far_ the most believable. And the only
one with a radiant countenance. All the others, including the malefactor, are cloaked in disgrace. Folks, say what you will, but this is one loyal lady. Or stupid. Or a great actress, in the manner of that great president, the Gipper, Ronald Wilson Reagan. I don't know. Probably not stupid. But love is blind.

( end of non-gold-related interpolation )

I hope everyone has a solid web-based near-real-time portfolio viewer. If you do not, please try Yahoo ( look under "Stock quotes" for "new portfolio" ) . It takes a few minutes to figure out how it works, and up to an hour to get it all set up. The result is that you to can track your holdings ( individual stock volume / gain / change / total change and gain of holdings, etc. ) throughout the day.

If you have a fund, and you know the top ten holdings as of some recent date ( as in, say, FSAGX or FDPMX ) , you can enter those top ten and track the fund with a limited degree of accuracy. This takes a little time. You could assign to each top-10 stock 10% of your total dollar holding in the fund, then divide the resulting dollar amount by the current share price of each to determine the number of shares of each top-10 stock to enter as your initial holding. Also, you must remember to adjust the Canadian dollars to US dollars ( divide by 1.45 ) in calculating the number of shares in your initial holding, for those shares trading in Canadian dollars. For example, if you have $100 in the fund, or $10 in each top-10 stock, and there is a Canadian stock trading at $3, don't enter 3.3 shares. Convert that $3 Canadian to $2 US ( approximately ) , then enter 5 shares as your initial holding in that stock.

Based on my implementation of that technique, FDPMX, for example, as of 3:30 PM figures to be up about 2% today, or, a little better than the XAU, up 1.47, which can also be displayed ( ^XAU ) .

If anyone would be so kind as to let me know that this approach is wrong, or even more unreliable than I estimate, I value your opinion.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:41 - ID#57232)
Rest of post: Gold certificates for CB's
By the way, I read one interesting thing in the book I have that describes how to go back on the gold standard. One of the economists states that gold is transferred from CB to CB with

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:43 - ID#254269)
Japan's finance boss quits; sorry if this is a duplicate post.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:43 - ID#57232)
Third attempt
By the way, I read one interesting thing in the book I have that describes how to go back on the gold standard. One of the economists states that gold is transferred from CB to CB with paper certificates, so that the arduous task of physically moving gold from bank to bank is not necessary. I wonder what these certificates look like, and who certifies them as valid. Are they like the currency of the BIS, firmly backed by gold? Just think what would happen to the LBMA if someone had corrupted this system of physical gold trading, and these certificates were no longer what the CB's thought they were! Then ANOTHER's scenario might actually happen. Just a thought!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:47 - ID#426220)


Mike: As per your equitable and impartial nature you have given a fair evaluation of the unpleasant scenario - despite the fact that Kitco software distorted the name of our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE in your posting. You made the following unbiased comment on how to mitigate differences:

I think that there may be an accommodation somewhere. Perhaps a banner at gold beagle that brings more people to Kitco and the Kitner business interests, and perhaps, in return, a little advertising barter which gives our friend Vronsky a bit more flexibility in serving our interests in what's happening in the world of gold. I would be happy to carry a message relating to such an arrangement to either party from the other.

Mike, our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE has been DOING PRECISELY THAT FOR MORE THAN ONE YEAR NOW. But we NEVER received even a simple THANK YOU. Allow me to be very specific.

Our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE has a section called GOLD CHAT. The introduction to this main section reads as follows:
Although there are innumerable Internet Chat-sites, we will only include those demonstrating high educational and informative content and quality. We are constantly searching the WWW to identify new market Chat-sites for their inclusion.

There are nine hot-wired buttons just below the introduction. Numbers ONE AND TWO ARE:

Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts - KITCO

Gold Discussion of Gold Stocks, Bars and Coins - KITCO

By clicking the button title the visitor to our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE is immediately transported to the KITCO DISCUSSION GROUPS.

One might ask what has this meant for KITCO? WELL, it is FREE ADVERTISING AND INCREASES THE NUMBER OF VISITORS TO KITCO. Again, I will be even more specific, and tell you how many visitors go to KITCO via our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE. We have analytical software which measures the EXACT number of visitors going to KITCO via our website EACH AND EVERY month!

Our GOLD CHAT section accounts for about 3% of our monthly 238,000 accesses from 110 countries, equivalent to 7,140 hits. Nearly ALL those accesses are enroute to KITCO. This means 238 visits each day to KITCO are being ushered by our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE, equivalent to 10 KITCO VISITS PER HOUR, 24 HOURS PER DAY, AND 7 DAYS A WEEK! Please visit the following website so that you may verify what I say as gospel. However, you might have to edit out the garbage in the URL as inserted by KITCO software. If you cannot reach the website, please email me, and I will give you the correct location ->

Mike, our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE has been doing exactly what you proposed for over a year now: Perhaps a banner at gold beagle that brings more people to Kitco.

One last relevant comment. Based upon KITCO website performance as per Bart Kitner postings - and in email correspondence to me some time ago - we estimate that our FREE GOLD NEWS SERVICE has more than THREE TIMES THE GLOBAL COVERAGE THAN THE KITCO GOLD CHAT SITE. Now I ask you, is gold beagle not pulling MORE than its fair share of the load in keeping international GOLDBUGS abreast and enlightened?!

Mike Sheller, many sincere thanks for your even-handed fairness in your suggestion -- which to belabor a point, we have been implementing for more than a year, sending an average of more than 7,000 visits per month to the KITCO GOLD CHAT GROUP. Would..., indeed COULD anyone say we are not pulling our FAIR SHARE OF THE BARGAIN?!

Should anyone need clarification of anything I have related above, please do not hesitate to contact me at

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:51 - ID#254269)
Labor costs going up in US;

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:55 - ID#249147)
Stock prices must keep going up or they will go down - and big

I think that the general thoughts here are that the 'boys' have to squeeze the shorts and keep the public thinking that the stock market is going up. In reality it is starting to drift down and making lower highs and lower lows. If the Dow can't make a new high like this week, the longs will be in real trouble. Try to sell the odd billion of stock when the bid isn't there.

Gold is looking better but alas we still need to spend a week or so above 305 basis Feb to turn it. If stocks do get hit next week, the boys will try the usual trick of selling gold. I am most concerned about Asia as the rally momentum is waning after only a week. Could look real nasty soon.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 15:55 - ID#26793)
Public opinion in rural Indonesia. What crisis?

PH in LA
(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:00 - ID#225408)
Farfel's tasteless caricature of "State of the Union" Address
This being a gold and precious metals discussion group, I, for one, fail to see the relevance of your jokes and find them to be in extremely poor taste.

But since you have opened the door, I don't mind disclosing my own biased prejudice on this matter, ie. that the whole scandel is the result of a badly miscalculated attempt to discredit our president by the mentally deficient right-wing pols. There was nothing to be dredged up in the Whitewater investigation so why not give pure old-fashioned mud-slinging a try! At least we can hope that Star goes down in history as an exquisite example of an over-extended zealot who rose so far above his own personal level of incompetance that he managed to imperil the whole country. His complete lack of vision and ability to see the big picture is why we really do need the politicians after all; to oversee the efforts of strictly professional idiots like him. The real joke is that our tax money financed the whole debacle.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:02 - ID#376309)
Gold model
One think which definitly has an inverse-correlation to gold is consumer confidence. The fact that the index hit a 28 year high as gold was hitting a 28 year low is no coinidence. This is one thing which I look at and track. Is this a one month pull-back in the index or the start of something real???

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:07 - ID#345176)
@ glenn
You got your numbers wrong. GOLD DID NOT HIT A 28 yr LOW !

Spud Master
(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:10 - ID#273112)
@PH in LA
you only prove there's one born every minute. Would you send YOUR 18 year-old daughter to be Bill's latest ... ah ... "intern"?

Get used to his new title: "former, disgraced citizen Clinton"

LGB's comments vis. Vronksy's latest posting: Awesome silence.


ps - Bill! Bomb Iraq! Bomb Iraq! We'll *all* believe you. At least, the 30% of the suckers credulous enough to believe you & Hillary's lastest hornswaggle.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:10 - ID#254269)
Dow closed at 7815 (up 102 points or 1.32%), S & P 500 up 12 points, 30 yr.

bond at 5.938%. Volume on NYSE at 683 million shares. That 30 year bond is getting awful close to 6% !

Charles Keeling
(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:13 - ID#344225)
Will Indonesia go code black?
Indonesia has several major gold companies
mining and exploring for gold. The article
below would be of major interest to those

Land of Mochtar Riady


Riot insurance

JAKARTA, Indonesia -- The
local office of the Crown
Worldwide moving company
has asked its insurer in
London to clarify an urgent
point for some concerned
customers: Are household
goods awaiting shipment
covered against rioting?

That's the kind of question on
many expatriates' minds here
these days. With Indonesia's
inflation rate at 25% and
rising, layoffs rife, and an
economy sinking like a stone,
tension is rising in the world's
fourth-most-populous country.
Thus clearing out -- safely --
has become the main
preoccupation for many
foreigners and affluent locals,
particularly members of
Indonesia's relatively well-off
ethnic-Chinese minority, who
fear they will bear the brunt
of any violence.

Stages of Alert

Most people in these
privileged groups are still
hanging around, watching for
the first signs of serious
unrest. But though no exodus
has begun, planning certainly

Engineering giant Bechtel
Group Inc. recently gave out
checklists to employees of
things to do during three
stages of alert, leading up to a
full evacuation.

The Jakarta International
School, whose 3,062-pupil
enrollment is down 100
students from the fall
semester, has laid in extra
stocks of food, water and fuel
for its emergency generators,
in case a crisis forces it to
keep students at its

The school has given its bus
drivers special training in
what to do if confronted by a
mob, and has a deal with its
bus contractor for access to
information from the
contractor's far-flung radio
network. Administrators keep
in touch with several embassy
military attaches who have
children at the school.

"Otherwise, it's business as
usual," says Headmaster
Niall Nelson.

Crown Worldwide, the
movers, reports a surge of
roughly 50% in outbound
relocations in January
compared with a year ago.
Household goods, by the way,
are insured against riot
damage, says Crown
Worldwide's Rick McCarthy.

Many people "want to move
before the presidential
election in March, or as soon
as possible after that," he
says. "We'll be busy for quite
a while."

One ethnic-Chinese treasurer
of a foreign bank here
recently admonished her
daughter "not to do anything
that promotes jealousy in
others," she says. "Just keep

Open Plane Tickets

Greg Doyle, who manages the
Jakarta office for
human-resource consultants
Hewitt Associates LLC of
Chicago, says: "We've been
hearing from quite a few
U.S.-based multinationals who
are dusting off their
evacuation plans. Some
companies, particularly
outside Jakarta, have already
begun taking out

An American retail executive,
who asked not to be
identified, holds open-dated
airline tickets to both
Singapore and Hong Kong,
lest the flights to one are full.
"You never know if there'll be
enough room on the planes,"
he says. Oil companies have
given their foreign nationals
open airline tickets, plus
$1,000 pocket cash, to be
repaid later if not used in a

Oil and gas companies,
familiar with such tenuous
times from the Mideast, have
taken the lead here in
emergency planning. Though
none would speak on the
record about their
preparations, for fear of
offending Pertamina, their
state-owned joint-venture
partner, several executives
confirmed that security
planning has become quite
detailed in recent weeks.

One major European oil
producer has devised a
five-shaded color scheme for
its levels of alert: from the
current Code White --
"routine" -- through Codes
Yellow, Orange, Red and,
ultimately, Black --
"emergency." At each level,
different groups will be
evacuated, beginning with
ethnic-Chinese spouses and
ending with all foreign

The company's outside
security consultants are
devising transportation routes
and booking airplane seats.
Concerned about a rush on
the airport in an emergency,
the company has considered
evacuations by sea on
tankers calling at its
petrochemical facility near
Jakarta, but passed.

"Do you really want to be on
an ethylene tanker with riots
raging?" asks an executive
involved in the deliberations.
"It's potentially one big

If the situation gets that bad,
most executives expect
foreign militaries will help
evacuate people. ( Four U.S.
warships are currently calling
on the Indonesian island of
Bali, a U.S. official confirms.
Although U.S. Navy vessels
visit Indonesia regularly, four
at once in Bali is rare, this
official says. )

Most expatriates who have
left Indonesia during the
currency crisis have been
driven out more by economics
than fear, foreigners here
say. Many expatriate experts
have been fired, as have
Indonesians, by debt-strapped
local employers. Others have
opted to leave after having
their salaries switched from
dollars to rupiah, in effect
gutting their pay. Some
others, particularly
non-Westerners working
here, are trapped.

One of Indonesia's biggest
textile makers, Texmaco
Group, employs nearly 800
Indian workers -- more than
half of whom are eager to
return home, says one of the
company's Indian executives.
But with their suddenly
meager rupiah salaries, many
have no money for air fare,
let alone savings to start over
in India, the executive says.

As usual in Indonesia, it's the
ethnic-Chinese merchant
class that has the most to fear
from the mounting instability.
Long the targets for
Indonesians' rage, the
country's Chinese --
constituting about 4% of the
country's 204 million people --
have already been badly hit in
the past 18 months in a string
of riots across several
islands. Now, many
indigenous Indonesians
associate the country's
worsening plight with the
"conglomerates" -- the giant
Chinese-run companies that
took on much of the $65
billion in private debt that has
helped sink the rupiah.

'Where Can I Go?'

Many Indonesian Chinese
have stashed some money
away overseas; the wealthier
ones have contingency plans
to flee to Singapore, Australia
or North America. A private
banker in Singapore says
some of his clients have
stocked their yachts for the
36-hour journey from Jakarta
to the city-state. But most
ethnic Chinese, like
Indonesians, have to make

"I'll just close up my shop if
the riots happen," says
Henny, a furniture
saleswoman in Glodok,
Jakarta's Chinatown, who
says she's resigned to the
idea that unrest may be

"Where can I go?" asks the
bank treasurer. "I don't want
to end up a beggar in some
distant country."

She has been preparing for
hard times for months,
stocking up not only on
household goods but on things
like balloons, shoes and
children's birthday presents.
She expects supplies to
vanish and prices to soar.
Terrified of indigenous
Indonesians' mounting envy
and resentment toward the
ethnic Chinese, she and her
family are doing all they can
to remain "invisible," she

The most explosive times are
expected to be between now
and April, Indonesians say, as
layoffs mount, prices rise and
the presidential election gets
under way.

"Safe-deposit boxes in
Singapore are full. Cash is
kept at hand. There is plenty
of food stored at home," says
one of Indonesia's most
prominent ethnic-Chinese
banking tycoons. "But this is
not just the ethnic Chinese.
It's all Indonesians."

Wall Street Journal, Jan. 27,

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:18 - ID#189273)
U. S. economic news
ATT laying off 15,000; J C Penney laying off 4900; Black and Decker laying off 3000+. Just today's news.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:19 - ID#38970)
Futures attack
Check out the currency futures attack on Globex. That's what you get for Pearl Harbour, Hiroshima and Nagasaki!!

John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:23 - ID#24135)
200$ isnt as cheap as it sounds
just some thoughts
The use of satelites, infrared photography etc in finding
findind new sites is expensive. The sites found that way
will almost by definition be in out of the way places. They
associated logistics will be very costly - If you look at the
Lihir project - with projected operating costs in the 200
area - you will find that money equivalent to 50 $/oz will
have already been spent -
The much heralded low cash cost NA mines - they all seem
to have costs as low as anyone would like - mean nothing since
when translated into practice, most of them make no money with
gold at 300-325 $/oz. Average costs are obviously EVERYTHING
since thats where the money squirts out.
Do the calculations for yourself - it fascinates.
Keelings article which follows underlines the risk in
some of these areas. The money up front is as risk before
any gold comes out.
Regarding sea water - gold - there was someone working
on it recently - at a primitive level I think - saw it in
a search on the net.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:26 - ID#93232)
As a habitual addict of gold....
It is really upsetting to me to have to pay prices based on $300. gold...the killing of the gold bear is now costing me money. Why in hell was I rooting for higher gold prices?? This really gets confusing. I used to able to buy gold coins based on $280. spot...dern. EB....take it from this old head....don't wait much longer...this really hurts too good. One itty bitty winkie ain't goin' to get you where you need to go. Go Goldbugs ( slowly please ) !

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:26 - ID#376309)
Ok. It was an 18 year low, but I think you knew what I meant!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:27 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 26.01

Just to make a point; Dow up $102 in 1998 dollars, up 21 cents in 1933 dollars.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:28 - ID#189273)
There is a place for black humour and off-color jokes. There is also a limit to what we can take. Have enjoyed many of your posts and much humour over these past weeks, but the Monica jokes with lunch are a real gag order.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:33 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .258

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:34 - ID#269409)
@ SPud Master
Re your 14:30 SPud, you simply demonstarte your complete ingonorance once again as you did last evening. True I bought a little SSC at 7/8 and a little at 13/16, both announced publicly here in advance, at it hasn't performed as I'd hoped. I also made a small spec. play ( which you failed to pick up on ) in PGU, ALSO announced here in advance, and we know what happened there.

On balance though, I know of no one else who heavily bought and pushed SIlver physical from $4.25 to $4.80, bailed from stocks at precisely the right moment, made several one or two day plays in stocks all quite lucrative, called the Gold bottom correctly ( and ONLY called it once I might add, not 58 times hoping for a "hit" as Puetz does ) .

You on the other hand, have offered nothing whatsoever by way of decent advance analysis on ANY market moves, other than your usual single minded Gold cheerleading, end of siciety as we know it nonsense we read here from the neurosynapse challenged.

Perhaps this is why you also make such a good bedfellow/ defender of Vronsky's recent antics now that he is uncharacteristically behaving more like your own normal delusional paranioa tendencies.

This may also explain your coplete disconnect with reality in your 21:13 last evening where you make the laughable analogy of the SI site with Vronsky's site. Obviously you don't read the SI site, or you would realize that UNLIKE Vronsky's site, SI strives to present both/all points of view in a balanced way. I've seen headlined several page articles there on why the DOW will definitely crash in 1998. They have on ongoing "Bull/Bear" poll, all kinds of bearish opinion pieces, and of course the forums are definitely balanced with all points of view represented.

Nope, S.I. certainly can't be characterized as anything remotely comparable to Vronsky's Gold cocker spaniel cheerleader, one sided site, but I guess if you have tunnel vision, and a myopic world view, this isn't as obvious to you as it is to anyone who has read both sites extensively.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:34 - ID#251268)
Right wing set up?Star's agenda?Hey Reno gave the go ahead and you KNOW she didn't want to,so 20 tapes a girl ruining her life,countless previous escapades,come on man,no come on man,will agree distasteful comments,no need the deeds speak for them selves.Okay market opens in 10 minutes lets get back on track!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:34 - ID#246224)
What will tomorrow bring???
It seems that every other day or week we are bombarded by a new scandal, crisis or emergency. This has become so consistant that one flinches reflexively with each new 'event'. Today Japan has lost its MOF head, Indonesia imposes a virtual debt moritorium, wide spread expectation of bombing to commence on Iraq, etc. We are becoming saturated with these very significant occurances to the point that we do not recognize thier importance.

President Clinton's increasingly strained public denials, of course, receive much focus. But other than this we have some really significant news today and it is ignored by many, many people. What will tomorrow bring? Bad news I fear, worse than we can imagine because we are indeed in 'troubled times'.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:35 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 48.70

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:40 - ID#269409)
Vronsky just don't get it do you?
Now you insist on spamming your editorial comments redundantly. The same long post, 09:27, 15:47. Oh well, it's better than the redundant ad posts I just don't get it do you? No one's attacking you Vronsky, in fact Bart keeps reaching out to you. Sheller and Strad are talking about some compromise, accomodation, etc. yet Bart has ALREADY tried to attempt that...several times. You don't sound like yourself, you on any new medications recently? You're sounding like Spud master and that's scary.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:41 - ID#345176)
Some thoughts on gold stock performance
In the event of a strong rally in gold, gold stocks may act very differently now that have in similar situations in the past, for the following:

Many companies have been cutting costs, devaluing their reserves, closing unprofitable mines, in general bringing production costs DOWN.

Whatever their capitalization was a year ago with gold around $390, don't expect similar capitalization when gold goes back to this level, but much higher, due to their lean operations and higher profits. That is to say, that with gold @ $390 expect a $30 Homestace and a $35 Placer Dome.

Any reasonable suggestioms?

Yellow Jacket__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:42 - ID#185112)
I have ATT Worldnet at home and it's fine. The problem you describe sounds like possible noise in the phone line. Also check all the connections.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:44 - ID#28585)
Not only do we have a President who lies repeatedly about every every aspect of his life...from drug usage, military service, sexual libido, etc....but this same President also instructs J.FLOWERS on the finer art of perjury and suborns perjury in the Lewinsky case.

I'm sorry to offend you, PH...but my posts are simply designed to make it abundantly clear that there is a huge segment of Americans who simply will view tonight's speech as one, huge laugh fest ( myself included ) . No matter how much doe-eyed sincerity the Prez musters up tonight, there is absolutely nothing he will say that will make me ( and at least 50% of the country ) believe one scintilla of the BS he so proficiently utters. Not even a Nobel Peace Prize nomination sponsored on his behalf by Norwegian friends of the moneyed interests who support him will change my mind!!!

Does my post offend you? Well, tough luck, buddy get to suffer right along with me then...because I am offended on a daily basis by BC's lies...the lies of his cabinet...the lies of the bureaucrats who serve them in compiling the absurd and woefully inaccurate, deceptive CPI, unemployment figures, and all the other fabricated ecstasy indicators.

You see, BC is a slave to Wall Street...a neo-corporate fascist who pretends to be a Democrat...who has abandoned all the noble social aspiratons of his political party. "Screw health reform..screw social security reform...screw the environment...screw Lewinsky!" says the Prez, "But by the way, Wall Street, I need another million or two in my campaign coffers!"

Thanks to your friend, BC, Wall Street ate at the national trough like one fat pig this decade while millions of people were thrown into the streets or into abysmal minimum wage jobs ...all for the sake of so-called corporate re-structuring

Yes, you're right...the media does manipulate events...all you have to do is watch GE's CNBC and witness the regular propagandizing in favor the greedy status quo on Wall Street.

So, 'm sorry I offend you, PH...but do I offend you nearly as much as Wall Street and the Prez offend Asia and Latin America? In the face of a major human tragedy, Wall Street, Greenspan, Rubin and all the other Clintonites proclaim what a truly wonderful thing it is for America. After all, according to them, Americans will "benefit" from cheaper goods and lower inflation. BENEFIT??? I do not benefit one iota from the despair of these poor people...and any neo-corporate fascist that tells me I do is full of crap and should have their balls removed with a chainsaw!! Is it any wonder Americans are currently despised beyond description throughout the world? I mean, even Canadians can't stand them anymore!!

So, now that I have provided you with an interpretation, my dear PH, maybe you might understand the relevance of my satiricdal BC posts to this forum. Because if you are a gold and silver investor in this world today, then you are anti-status quo...exactly what I am!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:47 - ID#410194)
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Fell 12,006 troy ounces to 429,899

Silver: Plunged 1,387,459 ( ! ) troy ounces to 103,996,120 -A new 13 year low

The situation in Silver is beginning to look spectacular to say the least. The odds for some "powerful fireworks" are strong!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:48 - ID#258427)
@ $6.20...go silver...hi yo silver...Hey Ted

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:48 - ID#252150)
jman@Right Wing Agenda
As per RJ it's quite ovious that Reno is being blackmailed. They have evidence of her making late night visits to Hillary & apparently
they were caught in a compromising position. Now there's a scary thought!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:50 - ID#329157)
In the week starting 12th January 1998, the gold price dipped below US$280 by a few dollars ( $276.50 ) which according to one source was the lowest since June 28th, 1979. I think this was the bottom with a high probability, or in any case the bottom of the range if gold were to be range bound for a few weeks. Later it recovered to US$280 to US$290 and in the last few days has broken $300 ( you can argue about spot versus Feb. futures but there's not much in it ) . For further argument, particularly in relation to the part the gold price plays at the BIS, see
Of course, that is not to be taken as investment advice. It might drop to $250 anyway especially if all tbe central banks sell all their gold, and cocker spaniels might fly.
maple leafs are nice
Remember the Banana Splits? There were two characters named Fleagle
and cocker spaniel. I can't remember the other ones.

Yellow Jacket__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:54 - ID#185112)
Lower operating costs
Myrmidon: I agree, and I think that lower operating costs will be more significant for companies that have lesser hedged positions. We may be seeing some of that in certain stocks. DKT, for instance, is trading around what it was trading when gold was about $315-320. DKT unloaded 80,000 ounces worth of hedge position in Dec. RYO has indicated that they will do the same, and hopefully it too will start moving soon.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:55 - ID#288295)
A rational approach; but it could work the opposite way - if the mining stocks are the ONLY game in town, it won't take a large % of the total money in the markets being reallocated to send them to Mars....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:55 - ID#258427)
LGB...What's the deal with SSC?? Seriously ...I would like to see some movement UP!! What do you know/think??

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:57 - ID#372344)
@ DIZZY Muhamed....Everybody is wrong, even the S.A. Chamber of Mines.
This year to see the END of SA Mines secret "KITTY" Gold bars, but again don't take my word for it , read for yourself.

click on on Companies and than above title....

Again, could someone please forcast status of SA Mines @ 325 Gold
when this "creative" accounting of production and costs comes to an end, I dare not do so, I am too scared, I shall have to leave immediately,
before you know who responds, such wit, such elequance, such

Stop BASHING Noth American shares, IF POGstays at these levels there will be few winners even in your beloved SA, wake up from your technicolor dreams already, SNAP OUT OF IT!!

Spud Master
(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:57 - ID#273112)
Your fervent denials are almost as entertaining as Bill Clinton's - and just as believable.

I like the cut of your jib, LGB! - now, blow your nose & cheer-up.

PH in LA: I suggest you move along to #4 as fast as you can ( see below ) .

1 ) Fear
2 ) Anger
3 ) Denial
4 ) Acceptance

John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:58 - ID#24135)
Stuffed and mounted !!
For PH in LA
If Star sends BC to the slammer he will have performed
an ever lasting service for Mankind. I wish he could
get Hillary too - I would like to see them both stuffed
and mounted - an example to others that might try the same
crap in the future.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:59 - ID#93232)
@AllenUSA....We are consciously numb now.......
However; I believe we are very disturbed, subconsciously, right now. And believe our "sensibilities" are cosmetically treating or "discounting" these alarums so that they are not allowed control of our pragmatism...keeping us from doing what we probably should do...PANIC!
This is absolute and perfect lunacy...we goldbugs are planners and worriers, to a great degree, and the present, continuous bombardment of traumatic news has got to be taking a toll on our insides. The pieces are not fitting...and the wild winds blow away our feeble constructions of logic and we are forced to begin again our attempt to understand. My insides know it's serious even though my facade remains cavalier.

Yellow Jacket__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 16:59 - ID#185112)
SI site
LGB: Would you save me searching time and post the URL for this SI site? Sounds interesting. Thanks in advance.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:00 - ID#269409)
@ Realistic
Wow, love that Silver COMEX inventory plunge, Merril Lynch, take note, your short positions will BURY you! What new story will you try now? Will you join Hillary Clinton in claiming Silver's rise is all a right wing plot?

( I never had "relations" with that woman.... I never told anyone to lie...Monica's name is not "Anyone" by the way and Oral gratification is not relations...and Saddam better look out and uhh everything is going so good in the country and all.... )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:04 - ID#269409)
@ Yellow Jacket
AS requested

Spud Master
(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:04 - ID#273112)
For Yellow Jacket; beware! This site is chock full of predators!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:05 - ID#269409)
@ PH in LA
No doubt you also believe that O.J. is still diligently hunting for the "real killer"

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:05 - ID#201131)
The yen goes up and so does gold. IT is that simple.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:06 - ID#246224)
Well, another 1.3+ million oz drawdown in COMEX silver ..
and 12,000+ oz drawdown in gold ( with 35k contracts in open interest ) .

"Put the pork chops on the grill, Martha. We are gonna have one bright 'forth a July' fireworks breakout REAL soon now."

LGB, you must be commuting home now or else we'd for sure be hearing your scream about these numbers, eh?

BB tomorrow.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:10 - ID#372344)
@ SA Secret Kitty Gold Bars URL S/B.............

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:13 - ID#410198)

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:13 - ID#269409)
@ Bill D...SSC
I dumped SSC at 1 1/16 and made a reasonable profit. The fact that it has failed to move in any effective way, in the face of Silver's excellent preformance, have turned it into a "dog"

SSC's problems and overissued, overdiluted shares outstanding have been well publisized. My assumption was that history would repeat itself ( something the analysts always tell us ) and that SSC would move sharply higher as it has in the past, once Silver began it's move, since SSC was historically considered the "premier" North American Silver mining stock. However, investors have become a lot more saavy ( now that they have sites like SI, and this site ) , and SSC must be re-evaluated in that light.

I like PAASF, and SSRIF now but have most of my money in physcial silver, and have yet to buy shares in either.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:13 - ID#255151)
"I Tried Monica, But I Didn't Impale"

Best be gettin' your Gold, i.e. Maple LeaPHs PHilharMonicas, and Eagles.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:15 - ID#348127)
Try this one fellows-
Is it a forgone conlusion that the powers that be are driving the POG down in an attemt to get masses out of it, or is that too conspiritorial-what cha think?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:16 - ID#28594)
Studio.R & Allen(USA), re: We are consciously numb now

--Ive established, to maintain ( ? ) my own sanity,
a Believability Index with 3 categories:

1 ) White noise--appropriate response: Trash it
2 ) Questionable signal reception--appropriate response: Analysis, then trash

3 ) Full-quieting--appropriate response: Act on it!

It helps a little...{:- )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:20 - ID#194311)
know what you mean my guts are churning, this guy is THE most powerful amn in the world with his finger on the button of mass humanity destruction.
I see no evidence of responsible, truthful governance with a respect and humility for the people he is serving...only arrogance, lies and meglomaniacal tendencies...get him out of there...get them all out of there...the future of humanity depends on it.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:22 - ID#28594)
Studio.R & Allen(USA), re: We are consciously numb now

--Ive established, to maintain ( ? ) my own sanity,
a Believability Index with 3 categories:

1 ) White noise--appropriate response: Trash it
2 ) Questionable signal reception--appropriate response: Analysis, then trash

3 ) Full-quieting--appropriate response: Act on it!

It helps a little...{:- )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:22 - ID#28594)
Studio.R & Allen(USA), re: We are consciously numb now

--Ive established, to maintain ( ? ) my own sanity,
a Believability Index with 3 categories:

1 ) White noise--appropriate response: Trash it
2 ) Questionable signal reception--appropriate response: Analysis, then trash

3 ) Full-quieting--appropriate response: Act on it!

It helps a little...{:- )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:25 - ID#258427)
@LGB THANKS and...
Yeah ... I "looked" at PAASF and SSRIF TO ... and at one time bought some, but I did not like the liquidity ... at least SSC does have liquidity ... I am going to hold it for a while longer....thanks...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:25 - ID#269409)
@ PH in LA
Don't worry about Billy, like all good secret operatives, his tryst partners swallowed the evidence

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:28 - ID#258427)
@LGB THANKS and...
Yeah ... I "looked" at PAASF and SSRIF TO ... and at one time bought some, but I did not like the liquidity ... at least SSC does have liquidity ... I am going to hold it for a while longer....thanks...

John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:29 - ID#24135)
Come out of the sun, dwarf, have water.
Be merciful - please throw this poor smelly son of a
misbegotten rug dealer a few dinars - peace be with you -
dwarves and madmen are beloved of al-lah
If you come to south africa, dont enter the gates, if you
enter the gates, dont look at the women, if you look at the
women, dont get married, if you get married , dont have
children, and whatever you do, dont buy gold mines. My
tribe, may it increase, wants them all for themselves.
Keep up thy efforts, twisted and deformed one - thou art
fair in the eyes of Al'lah.
Al'lah O akbar

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:30 - ID#252150)
Hopefull 14:16
Why is RYO doing so poorly? Possibly, because the Co. may not exist a
year from now.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:32 - ID#26793)
Recent dollar weakness hurting countries with dollar reserves

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:32 - ID#329157)
Mass default on futures contracts... it has been known! In Holland in 1634-1635, the ordinary industry of the Dutch was neglected while the population embarked on the tulip trade mania. Prices ballooned until one single root of the Viceroy bulb was bought for two lasts of wheat, four lasts of rye, four fat oxen, eight fat swine, twelve fat sheep, two Hogsheads of wine, four tuns of beer, two tuns of butter, 1000 lbs of cheese, a complete bed, a suit of clothes and a silver drinking-cup.

The tulip-jobbers speculated in the rise and fall of the tulip stocks... but eventually prices fell and a panic seized upon the dealers. "A" had agreed to purchase ten Semper Augustines from "B" at four thousand florins each, at six weeks after signing. At the appointed time the price had fallen to three or four hundred florins, and A refused to pay.

Defaulters were announced day after day in all the towns of Holland...
At last after much bickering it was agreed that all contracts made before November 1636 should be declared null and void, and payment of 10 percent made after that date... The commerce of the country suffered a severe shock, from which it was many years before it recovered.

History speaks its lesson to us, those that pay no heed are doomed to repeat its failures. I looked into the eyes of Oliver Cromwell's death mask two days ago, and it seemed to say "beware, for paper currency started in my time and has never since lacked followers"

John Disney__A
(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:35 - ID#24135)
See my predictions
James Effendim
I see a dark future for RYO sadly, But You Will be
fortunate in many other ventures, my brother - enshal'lah.
Al'lah O akbar

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:37 - ID#194311)
Clinton for the noble piece prize?

PH in LA
(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:39 - ID#225408)
Dearest Farfel:
It amazes and scares me when you make it so clear that your seemingly intelligent financial acumen is coupled with such philosophically weak underpinnings.

If you think for one moment that anyone ( even including yourself ) would be qualified and/or able to lead our country without very serious ties to moneyed interests, you would find yourself very isolated. Hell, even the framers of the consitution understood this and didn't even provide for non-property owners to vote.

Your holier-than-thou protestations in favor of the poor, and underprivaleged when you say that you for one have not benefited nor intend to benefit from lower prices etc. do not ring particularly true to this observer. Do you personally give a donation in their memory every time you fill up at the gas pump or the grocery store. Or is your exagerated idealism above such mundane concerns?

You bitterly try to hold Clinton personally responsible for every manipulation of the CPI and every pronouncement and deception by the federal government and try to justify such simple-mindedness with support for the current smear campaign? To be a supporter of Gold, you really don't have to carry your hatred for the status quo to such lengths.

BTW, I hear that only two presidents in the 20th century were above involvement with members of the opposite sex who were not their wives: Woodrow Wilson and Jimmy Carter, and the latter lusted in his heart. ( Do you remember what a scandel that remark stirred up? ) In any case, would you conclude that none of these other presidents was qualified to lead the country this century either?

One of the really disagreeable characteristics of this forum is how easily it degenerates into adolescent personal attacks. I found your jokes in poor taste. Period. A simple apology would have been in order; perhaps even an explanation for them. But a full-blown personal attack? Overkill!..

BTW, I am going out sailing now and promise not to read any reply you might care to stir yourself up with by posting.

PH in LA
(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:39 - ID#225408)
Dearest Farfel:
It amazes and scares me when you make it so clear that your seemingly intelligent financial acumen is coupled with such philosophically weak underpinnings.

If you think for one moment that anyone ( even including yourself ) would be qualified and/or able to lead our country without very serious ties to moneyed interests, you would find yourself very isolated. Hell, even the framers of the consitution understood this and didn't even provide for non-property owners to vote.

Your holier-than-thou protestations in favor of the poor, and underprivaleged when you say that you for one have not benefited nor intend to benefit from lower prices etc. do not ring particularly true to this observer. Do you personally give a donation in their memory every time you fill up at the gas pump or the grocery store. Or is your exagerated idealism above such mundane concerns?

You bitterly try to hold Clinton personally responsible for every manipulation of the CPI and every pronouncement and deception by the federal government and try to justify such simple-mindedness with support for the current smear campaign? To be a supporter of Gold, you really don't have to carry your hatred for the status quo to such lengths.

BTW, I hear that only two presidents in the 20th century were above involvement with members of the opposite sex who were not their wives: Woodrow Wilson and Jimmy Carter, and the latter lusted in his heart. ( Do you remember what a scandel that remark stirred up? ) In any case, would you conclude that none of these other presidents was qualified to lead the country this century either?

One of the really disagreeable characteristics of this forum is how easily it degenerates into adolescent personal attacks. I found your jokes in poor taste. Period. A simple apology would have been in order; perhaps even an explanation for them. But a full-blown personal attack? Overkill!

BTW, I am going sailing now and promise not to read any reply you might care to stir yourself up with by posting.

PH in LA
(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:41 - ID#225408)
Dearest Farfel:
It amazes and scares me when you make it so clear that your seemingly intelligent financial acumen is coupled with such philosophically weak underpinnings.

If you think for one moment that anyone ( even including yourself ) would be qualified and/or able to lead our country without very serious ties to moneyed interests, you would find yourself very isolated. Hell, even the framers of the consitution understood this and didn't even provide for non-property owners to vote.

Your holier-than-thou protestations in favor of the poor, and underprivaleged when you say that you for one have not benefited nor intend to benefit from lower prices etc. do not ring particularly true to this observer. Do you personally give a donation in their memory every time you fill up at the gas pump or the grocery store. Or is your exagerated idealism above such mundane concerns?

You bitterly try to hold Clinton personally responsible for every manipulation of the CPI and every pronouncement and deception by the federal government and try to justify such simple-mindedness with support for the current smear campaign? To be a supporter of Gold, you really don't have to carry your hatred for the status quo to such lengths.

BTW, I hear that only two presidents in the 20th century were above involvement with members of the opposite sex who were not their wives: Woodrow Wilson and Jimmy Carter, and the latter lusted in his heart. ( Do you remember what a scandel that remark stirred up? ) In any case, would you conclude that none of these other presidents was qualified to lead the country this century either?

One of the really disagreeable characteristics of this forum is how easily it degenerates into adolescent personal attacks. I found your jokes in poor taste. Period. A simple apology would have been in order; perhaps even an explanation for them. But a full-blown personal attack? Overkill!..

BTW, I am going out sailing now and promise not to read any reply you might care to stir yourself up with by posting. I will, however, tune in the State of the Union Address, and will try not to think of you even once while watching it.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:43 - ID#26793)
Moody's says Taiwan banks at risk due to Asia crisis

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:43 - ID#254269)
PH in LA: Your 16.00; I hate to tell you this, but it is not Kenneth Starr who

"has imperilled the whole country" ( your words ) . It is Bill and Hillary Clinton who have done that. Moreover, they are both pretty stupid really, because if they had any brains about them , they would have kept their
"heads down" and gone about the people's business.They have both gone out of their way to antagonize people who may have "given them a chance" but because of all these scandals, they have totally wasted any public goodwill they might have had. . You might not remember, but when he was re-elected in 1996, it was with less than 50% of the popular vote at that time, so he has always been a minority President.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of external factors all happening at the same time that will require a strong Presidency and this one cannot do that. Right now, the world is a pretty dangerous place and the world is looking to America for leadership and it is not there. Sorry, that's the facts.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:43 - ID#93130)
More on the Veronsky Issue
In furtherance to my recent post, in which I supported Kitco in the Veronsky debate, I suggest considering that Kitco may be compelled to exclude the Veronsky ads if it desires to retain control over commercial usage of its site by other service providers. From my very limited knowledge of law, I would expect that Kitco may set forth the rules underwhich any poster may post as long as the rules are applied uniformly. Thus, if Kitco were to allow Veronsky to post ads to solicit reader's attention to his site, then Avid, Kaplan, USA Gold any other web-site provider may have a legitimate argument that it should also be allowed to do so. Otherwise it may argue that it was being unlawfully discriminated against. And if such posts were made, where does it end.

Secondly, I am confident that Bart did not incur the expenses needed to set up and operate this site for the profit of other site providers. It can be legitimately contended that Veronsky has been unjustly enriching the golden eagle web site at the expense of Kitco. I no of no other site provider that tolerates such activity. Presumably, since there is no commercial advertising, Kitco set up this site for the public good for the benefit which we have all come to respect and appreciate.

For those who argue it is against free speech. Nonsense. Veronsky is not being prevented from expressing his personal opinion. He is merely being prevented from commercially advertising his site on the Kitco site.

Finally, in regard to the argument that since Veronsky mentions Kitco at his site, that he should be allowed to post at Kitco. This spurious augument has absolutely no merit. To my knowledge, Kitco made no such pact with Veronsky and to force such a deal upon it is ridiculous. If the Veronsky argument had merit, then all a site provider would have to do is to mention another site provider's site to gain rights to that site - which is absurd.

In conclusion, I see absolutely no merit to the Veronsky claim. But I do see compelling legal and logical reasons for Kitco to prevent the use desired by Veronsky if Kitco elects to do so to keep this site commercial free for the common good.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:45 - ID#341440)

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:49 - ID#335190)
Greenspan @ Law makers
January 27, 1998

Greenspan testimonies eyed for words of comfort

Greenspan is scheduled to appear before lawmakers twice. On Thursday, he will prep the Senate Budget Committee on the state of the economy, and Friday he is expected to join Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and his deputy Lawrence Summers to brief the House Banking Committee on the Asian financial crisis.

The testimonies, Greenspan's first on Capitol Hill this year, will come just days ahead of a two-day meeting of the Fed's policy-making Federal Open Market Committee Feb. 3-4, which is expected to keep key interest rates unchanged.

Such fears were nurtured Wednesday, when the government reported labor costs rose at their fastest clip in five years at the end of last year, upsetting investors whom analysts said had become too complacent about inflation risks amid forecasts the Asian crisis will put a lid on the U.S. expansion.

Yet few think a single set of numbers is going to change the mind of Fed policy makers, as long as tight labor markets fail to translate into higher headline inflation.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:51 - ID#26793)
Salvation Army gold coin and nugget auction scheduled

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:52 - ID#252150)
Who stole my b out of obvious ( 16:48 )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:54 - ID#254269)
Texas bumper sti from a few years ago; Impeach the President and her husband as well.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:55 - ID#254269)
Meant to say bumper sticker.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 17:57 - ID#35767)
It along with others in Barron's was panned because of high debt. Of course without the debt it would not be starting its large and low cost mine Kemess. Co has alot of good assets and a strong current ratio. If things get tougher ie lower gold and copper they can issue new shares. With gold at 340 and Kemess on line as predicted the Stock should be 4 or 5 bucks US. Sentiment towards highly indebted golds is similar to bank hatred in 1990. $500 MILLION has gone into Kemess and the co has a capitalization of $205 MILLION In a pinch the co could also merge. Mkt is reacting to anti gold stk hype re the leveraged stks because of the NEW FOUND FEAR of leverage in Gold mining companies. It has been rough though.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:02 - ID#288295)
available vs registered stocks
Does anyone know the present split between registered and available stocks at COMEX?My old source for this data on the Kitco site - Future Source World News has stopped functioning.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:08 - ID#335190)
Indonesia @ Jobs & Foreigner's moving on - On the road again - Next, Hey Mr., Can you spare a dime!
January 27, 1998
Hundreds of foreigners leave Indonesia

JAKARTA, Indonesia ( AP )  After losing his job as a stockbroker a few months ago, Chris Stoddard hit the golf links and surfed the Internet for work in Indonesia's wilting financial world.

But his quest was in vain. The 27-year-old Calgary native is heading home next month, among a stream of foreigners packing their bags after losing their livelihoods to Indonesia's grinding economic malaise.

"There's no work out there," said Stoddard, who worked for Lippo Securities Ltd. "Even if there was, any company really can't afford to employ a foreigner given the currency the way it is."

"It's my first retirement," he joked.

Foreigners in export-based industries, including oil and mining, are likely to stay because the currency plunge has made Indonesian goods cheaper abroad and helps their business.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:16 - ID#341206)
Japans finance minister is to resign tomarrow!!!
There is rumor that Japans finance minister is to resign tomarrow due to corruption. This brought to you by kevin at-

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:18 - ID#26669)
Bill_D re LGB and SSC
Bill, listen to LGB with a large grain of salt. IMHO he has the second least reliable silver opinions on the site. ( I claim honors as the least reliable. ) And don't kid yourself. He's an amateur just like a lot of the rest of us here.

But it relieves me greatly to see him dump his shares, thus assuring myself ( using the bigger fool theory ) that I'm right to hold onto mine. My own personal target for the stock is 1&7/8 by July. Right now my SSC holdings amortise to a little over 14% per year, better than my bonds and a lot more exciting. I would agree with him to the point of saying I'm not buying at these prices, but who's to know? From my experiance with the stock it usually lags the price of silver. IMHO

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:26 - ID#28585)
Leaks have apparently surfaced suggesting BC will throw himself at the mercy of the nation and offer up his most profound apologies in THE STATE OF THE INTERCOURSE tonight.

Expected highlights:

1 ) A tender, teary-eyed rendition of special love poetry BC wrote for Lewinsky.

2 ) BC's insistence that the entire Lewinsky affair was romantic, not sexual...followed by a live self-stimulation performance proving he is impotent and incapable of producing one drop of Presidential essence.

3 ) BC's invitation for the Congress to join him in a concluding sing-a-long of the inspiring, IF I HAD A HAMMER, by Peter, Paul, & Mary.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:27 - ID#398105)
Silverbaron.........your email address

Lurker 777
(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:30 - ID#317247)
I converted all my liquid assets into cash and bought all the Philharmonic Coins I could when they were less than $300. each. I have bought a April $290. put and last week I maxed all personal lines of credit just in case we have one more chance to buy Phillys for less than $300. So far this is the largest investment I have ever made and now I want to double it. When gold goes up I get excited because of my holdings but then I realize I might not ever get the chance to buy under $300. again.

This market action is enough to drive anyone crazy.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:32 - ID#288295)
rhody @ stochastics
I didn't see anyone answer your question about stochastics last night..... mere mortals can do this calculation.....stochastic tells where the price of something is, relative to where it has been in the last x number of days.It is useful to set the period of the stochastic to about 1/2 the cycle time you are trading; for example - use 7 days for a stock or commodity which has a 14 day cycle.The calculation is as follows:Base = 100*[[C-L,x]/[H,x -L,x]]where C = latest closing priceL,x = Low in last x daysH,x = High in last x daysSo when the closing price is at the high for x days, Base =100 and when closing price is at the low for x days, Base =0The %K and %D values are moving averages of the Base calculation.%K is the 3 day moving average of Base, and %D is the 3 day moving average of %K ( You could use other values instead of 3 days to calculate the slow and fast stochastics ) A %K ( fast ) crossover %D ( slow ) indicates a change in short-term price trend from up to down or vice-versa. The values of 80% and 20% are frequently used as entry and exit markers for trades; sell when stochastic falls through 80% and buy when it rises above 20%.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:37 - ID#347457)
@PH in LA on BC
PH in LA: well as you may have found out, we are not very bashful to express our opinions about key people in politics or financial community. Sometimes we may go overboard ( though I dont think it is the case with slick Willy ) . You may not like it, you may not agree, however, there is no reason to be upset about it. You have your opinion about him, many of us see him differently ( a lot differently )

Hey, at least we have one thing in common - just like you, I like sailing ;- )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:38 - ID#238422)
Selby, my Canadian friend.

Ronny as a destroyer of evil impire USSR is one of
biggest fantasies available today for North American

Why? I'll use ANOTHER's favourite phase -"THIS I KNOW".

Who is the real destroyer? Ask East Germans, they'll
tell you - IT WAS GORBI. It's very simple...

Take care.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:39 - ID#41229)
Was curious on the premium over spot you paid. No need to reply if not comfortable. Thanks

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:40 - ID#258427)
Hey Bud...thanks....for the link and comment...good stuff!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:41 - ID#376309)
Market Vane
If anyone gets Market Vane Weekly Bullish Concensus for Gold, Silver & Crude Oil could you please E-Mail me.

Thank you

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:41 - ID#377196)
Nobel Peace Prize...(Clinton)
Just heard on Fox News that Bubba has been nominated for the Nobel Peace
Prize. ( No doubt, for his work on Iraq!}.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:43 - ID#153102)
Anyone know the legal status of options in metals if trading is halted by the exchange ?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:43 - ID#197229)
Farfel : re clinton
Wanna know what makesAmerica great? If you don't like the "sleazeball", vote him/democrats out of office. I play the hand i'm dealt
with. I try to understand who is in power, anticipate future legislation,
and make financial decisions accordingly. I also firmly believe the
economic future of the country is cast in stone and no individual, no
political party can alter the outcome. America is not the garden of Eden,
so when you find utopia let us know.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:45 - ID#317138)
I was shocked to read your many outrageous posts directed to us
insulting one polite and generous Bart. As I read your posts,
the picture of a mad dog, forming at the mouth, bearing teeth,
and lunging at anyone who might come near-came to mind. Perhaps
you need to reassess the way you handle conflict internally.

After reading your posts and seeing the kind of person you are,
I have no desire to visit your site anymore. I'm probably not
alone in the way I feel. Don't bother resonding to this post.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:49 - ID#41229)
Thanks for the reply, curious where you did up all the info. I find the posts on constitutional law very interesting, It is sad that the states have been allowed to be bribed into complience in what ever Fed. gov. comes up with. All state govs. want fed checks so they do the deeds, even though it is the money of their own constituents. Please continue.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:49 - ID#238422)
RYO is a classic "stock in question", for now at least.

For this reason I like it, but my nerves are made from

tungsten carbide. It helps a lot..

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:52 - ID#254269)
Hillary blames the "right wing";

Bart Kitner (Kitco)
(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:53 - ID#26395) integrity restoration
After receiving this angry email ( below ) I've realized that the method chosen to disable the vronsky ads may have been a little adolescent, and so we've made the necessary changes to correct it. Links to the site still cannot be created here, but a serious effort was made to restore the integrity of the name.

In response to the question of why I waited so long to stop the promotional messages I offer the following:

Because vronsky's site offers a wealth of gold-related information AND nobody else was copying his marketing strategy, I let it go. It's just recently that more people got the idea that using the group could be an effective advertising medium and started using it as such. I don't blame them. To prevent a commercial free-for-all an additional netiquette guideline was added. If the rule doesn't apply to everyone, it doesn't work.

And you know the rest...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:53 - ID#254269)
Another golden sunset in Texas.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:54 - ID#41229)
Mozel: did=dig, Meaning it must take quite a bit of time, what do you use for references.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:56 - ID#238422)
Sorry to disappoint you, but we are not looking
at $600/oz at the end of the year...

It's not gonna make it, although I wish it could.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:56 - ID#288157)
Places where one can accumulate gold...quietly.

by John Helmer

The latest report from Russia's independent state auditor reveals
the Kremlin has been busier selling gold abroad than it has told
parliament. One reason for the sales also has been revealed. Kremlin
officials have had urgent needs for holiday homes, German
limousines, dishes to eat off, and potted plants for their offices.

Lurker 777
(Tue Jan 27 1998 18:57 - ID#317247)
I paid 4.5% over spot for my Philharmonics and I am still looking for a better deal.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:00 - ID#256255)
Not sure if this has been posted...
China, EU to Hold First Summit in April

BRUSSELS -- European Union foreign ministers agreed on Monday to
hold a first ever EU-China summit, British Foreign Secretary Robin
Cook told reporters. more...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:00 - ID#398105)

Well, at least he likes women.......


Lurker 777
(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:04 - ID#317247)
Bart ,you the man.
Test: GOLD BEAGLE Just joking.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:09 - ID#26669)
golden eagle gold beagle golden eagle golden beagle gold bagel cream cheese

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:11 - ID#372344)
@ Gold...BJ....Big Money...Iraq.....US$.....Musings.....
Although Gold closed just bearly above 300 today, it really was not
a convincing move. Today JMHO was "D" day to BJ after the conserted
and frenzied media attack to "get him" right where he "MUST" face the
Nation for hours, possibly twitch the wrong way, or perhaps appear
"guilty" and "insincere", but let's look at who would loose from this
BJ is proposing BILLIONS in "taxes" to Big Tobacco, and who would gain "raise the minimum wage"Labor, ....IMF Bail-out.... Hillary was out there today like a wounded lioness "standing by her man"......BJ will do OK tonite, he wil be able then to go underground and wait to see what happens...only buying the failure of Gold to convincinly
penetrate 300 tells me that the PPT will likely hold Gold below 300 for AG appearances later this week... we certainly cannot absolutely not have Gold above 300 when AG is speaking in public, can we., he will also most certainly be "drowned out" by the BJ affair, count on it....... I look for
BJ to come back against Iraq, possibly in the next 2 weeks, and that
will be JMHO when Gold will move up above 300 to maybe 325 or so,
also "strength" ( military ) in the US$ and US the markets which started today....But eventually BJ will probably have to resign, gracefully of
course and "not having an affair with monica"....Gold should do well
during this period...349?....All JMHO of course.....

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:15 - ID#398105)
JK and farfel.................. Next time VOTE

If you do not vote....don't cry over spilled milk.

Maybe American has learned its' lesson, so next November ...VOTE

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:15 - ID#41229)
Did that include postage, also did you have to meet a lot size or $ amount? Was lower % due to volume? By chance did you contact Barb Hughes, she said she only delt with large orders, curious what a large order is to her? Why was that coin selected, I realize it is a pure coin and popular in Europe, I have talked to some bankers and coin dealers and the most common response was eagle would be more liquid in States. I know this goes against what is said at this sight, in that a pure coin is a better investment, which made since to me. What did you find out?

Barb Hughes
(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:16 - ID#20783)

We thinks that WEEVIL more appropriate than BEAGLE....Cause we love puppies!!

Oh my --- Same as Circulation????

Just trying to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

Take care...Barb

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:21 - ID#398105) price

Swings and round-a-bouts............

I feel that the gold price wil oscillate between US$290 and 330 between now and June/July. The key issue is the establishment of the European Bank. By year end, gold will be US$330 to 350. I cannot see it going through the roof. I may be wrong

Clinton, one way or the other, is on his way out......election in November 98 ?

The "Powers that Be" will decide his fate.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:21 - ID#41229)
Barb Hughes
Was curious, what is the minimum $ quanities that you will deal in, for pm bullion coins?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:25 - ID#238422)
John Disney
John, your "Ronny/star wars/USSR collapse"
undestanding is perfect and very rare among
English speaking goldbugs.

In regard to advice on how to deal with
Chinese laundry reps. Let'em dry clean your robes...
Then tell'em you know Oris who can sell'em
sun glasses, CAMEL cigarettes, laundry equipment
and SAND SOLVENTS, Then request prepayment in gold
and vodka, to be delivered to Oris's basement...
I'll be there very shortly...


(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:26 - ID#429245)
Gold coins below $300
Lurker 777: In your 18:30 post you have voiced my feelings exactly. I like to see gold go up, but since I have taken a position below $300, I wouldn't mind expanding it, and therefore it wouldn't bother me if gold returned to that price.

In fact, when I realized how my feeling on this had changed, I guessed that others must be thinking the same way, and I think this is a big part of the reason why we will not see gold at $280 ( Coins below $300 ) again soon. There are too many people anxious to buy at that level. Those buyers are in the wings now, but they will probably buy at higher levels when it becomes more clear gold won't be available at those prices.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:27 - ID#206358)
Thanks,AVALON,JTF,i owned u two!
Thanks for the reminds.
The tensions in indonesia is very very high now a day!Many people around here felt the explosion after the festival ( after 6/feb on ward ) .The same countdown for iraq/u.n conflict issue!Since,SINGAPORE is the most nearer,most invest and influnced in the areas.It definately draged down this SMALLCAT together.The pm,ministers around meet every each day to change opinions about the TURMOIL.The australia pm will visit the area on 22/feb too!!
YES,The chinese been blamed about in the CRISIS.Thailand feel that too,malaysia not yet!!
The only precaution i can take now,is stocked up my gold bars.The buziness is nearly killed.

Anyway life still go on,take it easy!
As long as you see my post, i'm still o kay!huh huh...!
bye...Today is the chinese lunarnew year,TIGER YEAR!And we used to wish people in "KONG XI FA CHAI".Two days after,is the muslimans new year,HARI RAYA AIDIL FITRI,and say it in "SELAMAT HARIRAYA"!Due to this we two minority just wishing each other "KONG XI RAYA"!Sounds GREAT!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:32 - ID#238422)
Haggis (on gold price)
You're right..

It may probably jump to $370-375 for a short
time, but that's all about. Damned politicians...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:33 - ID#432221)


(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:34 - ID#41229)
Curious if you have same sentiments on Another's outcome. My feelings, very little downside risk to hedge.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:36 - ID#288295)
check your

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:38 - ID#398105)

Mass default on futures contracts..

In the scheme of things, in the GOLD "food chain", it is clear that a Cartel with control of gold and banks would gain on gold going up and down.

Mass default on futures contracts..

The miners can always access gold, and so can the Central Bankers. The "Bhoys" in the middle, selling gold short...well, they could get themselves in strife. Cannon fodder............think of Waterloo !!!?

Mass default on futures contracts..

Aye, Haggis

Barb Hughes
(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:39 - ID#20783)

We do not plan to use this site to do biz on. Kitco has very tight spreads on products!

Refer: And in regards to us, we deal only in bank to bank, sight drafts and in contractual size & only bullet proof deals...

Lurker 777: Right church wrong pew. Eagles liquid -- Phillies liquid ( usually discounted - not popular! )

Take care...Barb

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:43 - ID#57232)
Yes -- Noble piece prize?
Kiwi: Did you know that was the only full length post I have been able to make in the last 48 hours? It is as if someone is dumping my posts into the AEther if they don't like them! I'm getting paranoid, because I can recieve everything on the net without trouble, but I can't send. I am upgrading from Netscape 2.01 to 4.04 tonight when I get home.

The market is really wild, isn't it? Gold and silver stocks are vanishing from the comex, impending riots in Indonesia, Saddam thumbing his nose at the US, Clinton in deep trouble, and Isreal and Palestine going at it! And the DOW goes up? Who is buying? Is it the pros trying to shake out the shorts? Some of these shorts will hang on until the DOW reaches 8500! Going on vapor as Maverick would say.

They better give BC that Nobel peace prize this week! You title I like better -- does it go with the

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:45 - ID#26669)
Looks like Herr Klinton hasn't been tough enough on the peasants!
Labor costs are going up in the US. So how long before the talking heads start to see the inflation?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:47 - ID#335190)
Chretien @ Supports USofA policy in Washington,Canada & USofA have not yet discussed the Sex Issue??
anuary 27, 1998
Chretien keeps distance from Clinton controversy

COLLINGWOOD, Ont. ( CP )  Jean Chretien, who has often bragged about his close personal and political relationship with Bill Clinton, has no advice to offer the U.S. president on his current problems.

"This has nothing to do with the business of the government of Canada," the prime minister said Tuesday when asked about the sexual innuendo swirling around Clinton.

"I have not had the occasion to talk to him ( about it ) ."

Chretien did note that, whatever Clinton's political troubles, he remains "the legitimate president of the United States and we've always had very good relations between the United States and Canada since he's been president."

He also expressed a preference for the Canadian political system, where the public and media generally allow politicians a greater degree of privacy in their personal lives.

"In Canada we have a better tradition ... I've never been involved in problems with my family and so on. Others were, and we respected their privacy."

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:48 - ID#398105)
Silverbaron.........check your mail..............

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:49 - ID#57232)
Truncated posts
Yellowjacket,All: Still having trouble with my posts. No problem sending or receiving frames, with very rare lost data, no problem looking at anything on the net. But can't post more than 100 words. Same problem athome - so not computer or phone line. Same server ( ATT ) and same local phone number.

I must have been a bad boy! The only intact post of the day was that surprise about the Clinton nomination for the Nobel peace prize. In my later truncated post, I tried to tell Kiwi that he better get that prize real fast!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:51 - ID#210114)
Haggis A 19:21
Agree with your prediction of POG this year. Can't see ant full on rally, but a slight recovery is on the cards.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:52 - ID#426220)

TZADEAK: I have important info in relation to your 19:11 posting, pls email me if you would like it:

(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:56 - ID#432221)
LURKER 777@1830


(Tue Jan 27 1998 19:56 - ID#398105)
LGB (@ PH in LA..........

"No doubt you also believe that O.J. is still diligently hunting for the
"real killer""..........

Common lads, give OJ a break........

he is only looking for his "inner-self" ?!!!!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:02 - ID#372344)
@ Haggis....Gold moves....
I tend to agree generally with the figures you quote, however I disagree
a bit with your reason the ECB, JMHO that is just too close to call, the whole Euro "thing' I find too close to call today.... But I only see
+++ for gold in that area, what with the article last week about Euro Banks hoarding Gold.... If Euro happens or not , no big deal for Gold
because the Euro's are in the same "paper game" as the US, ....
can't have westerners loose faith in "paper"
But maybe the effect either way,will be in the interrelationships of values of world paper currencies ....I've got more Gold or access to ,than you
do etc...I also would not discount a very powerful move, you know
judging by the speed of the collapse of some Markets and currencies
in Asia, If the US is "terrorized" by Arabs or others after bombing Iraq
than I feel it is possible to see a serious attack on the US$ markets etc...
and that is why I believe in part the "get BJ" since Gore a decorated viet vet would be able to "sell" a possible war in ME or elsewhere than BJ draftdodger.....and this time it will not be a cakewalk, there will be real opposition Russia, maybe China....and also domestic uprisings in some
Oil states possibly.....Gold could get very close to 450 even if 2 or 3
of the above come about....and as the US$ is truly challenged for
sole world currency 8500 is not out of the question......

Gold moved from 20 to about 200 about 10X in early 70's,
from 85 to 850 in 1981 10X, so from 850 to 8500 about 10X...
If the DOW can move from 850 in 1981 to 8500 about 10X
why not Gold 10X again?

So I would say again "thunder only happens when it's raining" It has begun to rain .....How long until the POWERFUL THUNDER of GOLD
is heard?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:03 - ID#35767)

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:03 - ID#285392)
Bart: Congratulations on taking the first step towards healing the rift. I understand your reluctance to making exceptions but in the spirit of mutual cooperation between your very valuable sites I for one would like to see his full priviliges restored. Look at it as a mutual courtesy. BOTH OF YOU ARE ASSETS TO, AND COMPLIMENT EACH OTHER.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:05 - ID#398105)


I sure that you must have missed something out ?

What gets me, and I have seen this on the Corporate scene, is that some people actually believe in "Their Presence" - image and presentation !!

FMD........guess what that stands for ?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:07 - ID#401460)
"Sexual Weaknesses"

VATICAN CITY ( AP ) - Young people with sexual ``weaknesses'' can still be candidates for religious
life if they can control their problems, the Vatican said in a report Tuesday.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:10 - ID#26793)
Rubin praises Indonesian debt moratorium strategy.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:14 - ID#372344)
@ away.... to watch BJ's masterful preformance!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:16 - ID#26793)
German banks troubled by Indonesian moratorium

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:19 - ID#432157)
golden beagle ??????
What does this all mean .Please explain ???????


(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:23 - ID#26793)
Hashimoto will accept bribes until Finance Minister is replaced.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:24 - ID#41229)
Haggis@Heads in sand
I must admit your posts some time ago mentioned about americans with heads in sand, amonst other things.

I normally do not watch T.V. when I have free time, I'll read, either books or net. Lately reading net while I work. For the past week have been watching reports on T.V. on zippergait. I am totally amazed at the ignorance of the people being polled. "This is his personal problem does not effect his job", "Why don't the press quite picking on the Prez."

I'm sitting there watching the media make the U.S. look like a bunch of bafoons, The first thing that comes to me is, the world must think us americans as a bunch of idiots, then you pop into the same thought. It's no wonder you bash americans, the press sets us up.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:27 - ID#420304)
Clinton Who Cares?
There is too much talk about some Arkansian who could not keep his eyes on whats right, the priorities or on the business at hand and not the business in his hand. Ok so he is just another sleezy US politician with one hand on the Bible and the other in his shorts? Who cares? The guy has spent all his adult life trying to be a Kennedy, his wife has probably spent the rest of it trying to be one too. In light of this if he had one misstress, how many have any French President had?
Lets get down to facts. If the guy swore he did nothing wrong and then it turns out he did...fine kick the bastard out. If he lied right out then kick him out. Yet if all he did was to have a little sex on the side, I mean look at his wife who could blame him, then who cares?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:43 - ID#401460)



(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:49 - ID#257136)
A perfect illustration of the direction we have gone!
I am saddened to see there is so little of principle being taught in our society today.
Your post exemplifies our problems re: morality and character far more than anything any person using this forum could say.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:49 - ID#57232)
Netscape 4.04
All: trying first post with Netscape 4.01. ( It's free! ) Much easier to install -- don't need to go into Dos and find where the files went,and whether the ini files say what they need to say.

Now -- the key question is whether I still get cut off midsentence!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:51 - ID#41229)
If your spouse would cheat on you, would you care? Would they loose your trust. Would they not have broken a commitment? Would it be something your kids would like?

That's one of the major problems with society, nobody cares, unless it directly effects their own lives?


(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:53 - ID#401460)

Now move up to a Mac and life will be a even more fun. Get away from DOS and Wintel altogether.


(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:54 - ID#41229)
I just wanted to add that I voted and it does give me bitchin rights!

aye, refer

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:54 - ID#57232)
Indonesia - Nearly at the blood_in_the_streets stage.
Donald,All: We have the US navy circling, the Germans nervous about what is happening in Indonesia/SEAsia, and RR is pleased??? Why is he pleased?

Jin: Have you seen the posts today? Looks like many people who do not look like

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:54 - ID#288295)
JTF - could be your ISP...mine seems to be compressing all the spaces between sentences, and eliminating all double & triple returns between paragraphs...very weird. Others seems to be getting thru fine, however.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:57 - ID#251268)
making money!
Seems to me a lot of people posting at this site are more interested in being right then making money ( pissed off at the shorts ) hey lets give credit where credit is due,sh-t I was wrong at 350 340 325 even295 but lots of people ( Glen Ring etc. ) called the washout,now with things turned a little lets be smart not emotional ( futures traders ) protect profits and let the market tell us what to do.I enjoyed the post about the free trade and bull call spread,also Cherokee getting way out of the money calls but He's right this market could go to whew where ever and He's going to be smiling.
P.S.Clinton's the one who sucks!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 20:58 - ID#57232)
Thanks for your support! I'm getting a little paranoid here.
Silverbaron: I'm using Netscape 4.04 now -- runs faster -- no truncation or AEther effect yet. I also have my text run together, unless I paste it in. Don't know why.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:00 - ID#288295)
See my 18:32 - sorry about text compression, can't do anything about it.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:00 - ID#93232) 18:30
Gold Codependency...we need help....professional help...we're sick.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:03 - ID#401460)


Lets elect Larry Flint as your representative. NO, thats not right. Its not fair to Larry Flint, to compare him to a Sleeze such as Bill Clinton.

The Right Wing pulled his pants down and forced Monica to her knees. R I G H T !

Monica close to a deal - Clinton closer to PERJURY charge, which will lead to impeachment.


(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:03 - ID#255151)
Talegate Party

State of the Union Bowl about to begin. Among
the questions...Will Ken "Bart" Starr be
penalized for illegal motion? Will QB Bill
Clinton be sacked? Will wide receiver Monica
be charged with a "face mask" penalty? The
coin toss-- Clinton calls for Heads and
elects to receive. Let the game begin!

Lurker 777
(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:07 - ID#317247)
Refer: $10.00 postage and I think same price for 10+. The Austrian Philharmoiker one oz. 999.9% pure gold bullion coins have the highest monetary face value of any gold coin ( 2000 Shilling or $160.00 U.S. ) and are the biggest seller in Europe. As a bonus if gold would completely collapse you should be able to get 2000 Shillings per coin from the Austrain Mint. I dont care for the alloy filled coins like American Eagles and S.A. Krugerrand.

Barb: I have checked with the large bullion dealers and the Philharmoiker seem to carry a premium over the Eagle when I asked. I would love to buy Phillies for less than 4.5% over but I only buy 100 at a time.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:11 - ID#57232)
Ministry of Finance -- is that part of MITI?
Donald: I wonder -- maybe Hashimimoto is slowly taking apart his opposition. I recall that MITI and some other Japanese agency is extremely powerful -- filled with Japanes bureaucrats that are able to withstand almost any type of change.

In Hashimoto's defense, he may be finally getting somewhere with his musclebound bureaucracy -- it's about time isn't it -- since 1990 without real resolution of their problems. I wonder, is our economic system strong enough to go for nearly 9 years without wilting or worse?

We are a nation of gamblers, with economic strength coming from our diversity. Perhaps we have such bad crashes -- despite our strong economic system, because we gamble too much -- in business and the markets, as well as in other things. We were the last to fall in 1929 -- we may be the last to collapse again -- but we have nowhere near the percentage of savings stashed away this time. Even in the 30's things were real bad -- hard to think of what they may be like this time around -- when the rest of the world recovers before us. Just a guess, IMHO.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:12 - ID#255151)
Tailgate--The Blue and GOLD Win

Indiana Pacers over Washington Bullets 85-84! Go Larry Bird! Go Gold!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:15 - ID#57232)
Thanks Highrise -- I have used DOS since the first XT, and its precursor on the RS Model 4
HighRise: Thanks! I can talk again! Now I know how Donald felt when he could not see, or talk. I had trouble talking for 48 hours, but I was not blind. I'm addicted to Kitco like the rest of you!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:15 - ID#288295)
Goldcoholics Anonymous.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:21 - ID#57232)
This is great!
All: Got to log off -- real boss has me by the ear.

Did you hear what Paul Harvey said this morning on

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:22 - ID#317193)
To All
I have lurked here for several months. Thank you all for the education in gold and the frailties of human nature. I'm out of stocks except for gold mining shares. There is a time and purpose for every season. TURN, TURN. The bull market's season is at it's twilight. The gold bull is in it's dawn. Wishing, hoping and dreaming do not make this so. It is simply golds time. PATIENCE! A day, a month, six months? NO one knows but the time is near. Changing the subject, Eagle-Beagle-Smeagle. Bart and Vronsky you are both more comedic than any writer could have written. TED, please "ANOTHER" joke. EB--AWWWAY! OLD GOLD- wisdom. I could go on and on. I shall not. Thank you all again. Tom

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:24 - ID#57232)
Oh well -- problem is back -- AEther got me again!
All: Any other suggestions? Problem at home and work, can receive but not send. Perhaps my server ATT has done more than lay off 14,000 workers, and I am now being routed through more seedy areas of the net.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:32 - ID#257114)
Is there any substance to Bill's speech or is it just me. I can't grab onto anything he's saying. What generalist statements. I'm getting ready to change the channel.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:32 - ID#42365)
Well this fool is makin alot of promises, and I believe he has used the word strong around 50 times... doe she want the ppl to percieve him as strong?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:36 - ID#401460)

Try the Simpsons


(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:38 - ID#31868)
And, so, nothing new, another speech nobody will remember.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:38 - ID#42365)
nope no sustance here.. just a bunch of analogies and alot of STRONG words... If i hear strong one more time! Well he want s the support for the IMF...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:38 - ID#30116)
The latest question about the Cheif Executive ( who happens to be the head law enforcement agent in this country ) is one of possible witness tampering and obstruction of justice. These are felonies my friend. If you are convicted on these charges you will do hard time at one of the many 'hotels' available courtesy of the Federal Government. This is the issue. The issue is not, being 'indescrete' with a woman.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:41 - ID#42365)
Yes someone finally understands it... heh All day today the local radio stations had opinion polls and they focused on sex sex sex!!! they had no idea about the whole point of the investigation... Everyone is being smokescreened... just tell the public they are ok and are safe in Strong arms.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:43 - ID#390249)
Gold Open Interest
I had read today that gold open interest was at its lowest level since June 1997. Being the neophyte that I am, I don't quite understand what this means. Is it bearish for gold - i.e. fewer shorts. Could someone please explain what this might mean, if anything, for the price of gold.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:45 - ID#286230)
Still say it is wrong to put high moral values into an office to be held by a politician. Next US Pres will have the same problems.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:48 - ID#401460)
Clinton and Adultery

From the Dallas Morning News

"Mr. Clinton allegedly once told two Arkansas state troopers that the Bible doesn't consider oral sex outside of marriage to be adultery, according to the Los Angeles Times. In fact, the Bible makes no reference to oral sex, says the Rev. C. Welton Gaddy, a Baptist ethicist and author of the 1997 book Adultery and Grace: The Ultimate Scandal."

"Very legalistically, the Bible doesn't define oral sex as adultery, because the Bible doesn't mention it," says Mr. Gaddy, a minister in Monroe, La. "So it's a true statement."

"But this sort of logic is not only deceptive, he says; it also misses the point. "The Bible affirms sex as a sacred gift to be used with moral responsibility," he says, "and once you begin quibbling with how far can you go without being unfaithful, you're probably on the slide.""

Clinton is using, and has always used, Webster and the Bibl;e as "Legalease" permitting him to Lie and to commit adultery - By the way Starr may have a problem if Hillary approved of the BJ's. This may get him out of the perjury charge.


(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:49 - ID#266105)

Kong xi raya, Jin.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:50 - ID#42365)
so how do morals factor into this country? all i see is crime all around, maybe due to a lack of morals?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:55 - ID#57232)
Clinton is one of the best speakers I have ever heard!
AL: BC is a pro at public speaking -- he had me mesmerized for a while well before he was elected the first time. But -- he usually says very little. I was just watching him on the TV, and thinking -- if he was honest, forthright, and really concerned about the world, he could go down as the best president we have ever had -- but that was not in the cards, was it. Many of our good presidents were lousy public speakers.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:57 - ID#403272)
reply to ID#238422 (RYO)
I have RYO myself and sort of like it. I bought before I investigated the stock. Now that I own it, I not sure I want it. If gold goes up ( good chance it will ) , one can make a ton of money. Providing the indians don't take it all with thier lawsuit, and the price of gold does not stay below three hunderd for 1 year, this will force RYO into chapter 11. Hope is in sight, we could see $310 next week, $315 the week after and than tons of money!!!! On top of that, I read the indians do not have much of a case.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:58 - ID#341214)
Silverbaron: FWN Site
Silverbaron: The following link will give you the story on FWN. They have changed over to a new web site.

Barb Hughes
(Tue Jan 27 1998 21:59 - ID#20783)
@Lurker 777


Reason for premiums over Eagles & Mapes is they are not off the shelf item!!!!

Do you understand what THIN MARKET MEANS????
Which are comparing PALL to AU in LIQUIDITY...

LIKE Phillies to Eagles & Mapes...

SEROUSLY ----- You're pulling our CHAINS aren't ya?????
Anybody who plays in LOT #'s ( at a crack ) SHOULD d$$$ ( like in hold water ) know BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take care...Barb

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:01 - ID#42365)

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:01 - ID#57232)
Clinton is one of the best speakers I have ever heard!
AL: Rest of truncated post --

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:02 - ID#401460)

The next Prez. will have problems, of course, but I pray he will conduct himself properly. It is not the BJ's that bother people so much as all of the deception lies, and BS.

How Fast You Forget
1. Gennifer Flowers - LIED
2. Marla Maples
3. FBI Files - illegal action
4. Majority of Cabinet under investigation.
5. Sold a Super computer to Russian Military.
6. Rented the Lincoln Bedroom
7. Friend and supporter Lassitor a Drug Dealer
8. Whitewater Savings and Loan rip off.
9. Vince Foster
10. Sec. Brown 45 cal hole in head.
11. Bosnia
12. Haiti
13. Budhist
14. Indonesia $50 million trip.
15. Tyson foods favoritism and kick-backs.
16. Canadian lumber import controls
17. Whitewater obstruction of justice.

Please feel free to add to the list.


(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:03 - ID#57232)
Try again.
AL: Rest of truncated post --'You can fool all the people some of the time, some of the people all the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:05 - ID#401460)

Good Old Abe never met SLICK!


(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:06 - ID#57232)
Oh Well -- I guess I can only lurk tonight!
All: That was Lincoln's famous address about fooling the people. BC reminded me of it tonight. Don't think it is over with BC -- Hillary won't let him give up -- she has nerves of steel!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:06 - ID#26669)
Al, re Clinton's speech.
IMHO he's saying that he's going to start stagflation. While keeping income tax rates up he's going to inflate the costs of education, healthcare and labor. He wants to shift the debt over to where it won't be counted against the general budget. All while dangling the carrot of stable social security in front of all the mules so they keep plowing.

Sounds like National Socialists have gotten softer since they wrote Mein Kampf but the story is the same. Wilhem J. just sugar coated it to fool the 'merican public. I did like the little aside about "every 'merican has da' rat to keep his medical reccerrds confeedential". IMHO

Good for gold a couple of years down the road IMHO.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:08 - ID#189273)
Who cares? What a question to ask on THIS forum. Darned right people care. We're not talking about Clinton's public life here. Ms. Lewinsky is not a personal family friend of the Clintons'. She is a secretary-trainee just out of school with the most powerful boss in the western world ( except maybe AG ) . This is employer-employee stuff, while Mr. Clinton is our employee as Chief Exec. He, of all people, whose administration has been demanding a safe and harrassment-free workplace for women should know the rules. His people wrote and enforced them - for the rest of us. Remember the Magna Carta! The king must follow the law, even his own.

Even without perjury this guy is hoist on his own petard for the late night meetings. Remember most Americans have hated these rules of Political Correctness being shoved down our throats.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:09 - ID#26669)
You forgot Somalia.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:10 - ID#31868)
And so, another speech nobody will remember.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:11 - ID#57232)
And I wonder what Old Abe would have said if he had met BC!
HighRise: Can't say much -- was thinking of what Old Abe would say if he were sitting next to me tonight. At the very least he would be shaking his head in dismay.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:13 - ID#288295)
18. A trail of ( who knows how many ) deceased witnesses.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:14 - ID#373346)
Neophyte - Open Interest
This is a very good question that you have posed and I will offer my opinion, although it is very shaky at best.

If you look at any commodity in historical graph form when price is compared to open interest there is a distinct correlation:

When the open interest falls, with the price in consolodation or going lower, the price begins to rise ( although with a very minimal lag ) . On the other hand, when open interest rises with a strong uptrend in place in the price, expect that the top is very near ( although again with a short lag ) .

Now this contradicts what the "specialists" say as short covering when open interest falls, pertaining to bearish implications, and when the open interest rises, pertaining to bullish implications.

My source, Larry Williams, one of the top five futures investors ever. His advice: Open Interest alone is not a good indicator. Compare it to the COT or Committment of Traders ( which has been very bullish for gold ) , and other factors such as RSI. What this all tells me is that we are in the beginning stages of a gold bull market. How long it will last I cannot tell you.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:15 - ID#401460)

See what I mean HOW SOON WE FORGET!
Monica who?

Prez's DNA on a black dress in one weekend!


(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:16 - ID#301318)
The Unaboinker

He will plead not-guilty and will hang Hillary.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:19 - ID#57232)
2BR02B?: Do you know Jin knows about the 4 US naval ships hovering aroung Indonesia, and the Australian plan to evacuate? I hope you can contact him -- I am virtually speechless with truncation tonight.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:22 - ID#31868)
My opinion, WJC is dead wood walking.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:24 - ID#153102)
Can US make good on the 20th century's version of the tulip contracts
The largest financial rescue operation in history has so far failed to stem the economic devastation of East Asia. This raises the question: Just what are the promoters of this mammoth bailout--President Bill Clinton, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin --- hiding from the public?

What American taxpayers -- who will be most heavily hit by this crisis in the end --- have not been told is that the real dmage caused by the breakdown of Asia's payments systems is far worse than offically acknowledged.

"The problems reported so far take little or no account of the enormous losses facing the Thai, Indonesian and South Korean money markets from the outsize derivatives contracts they made with Wall Street banks and corporations," says economist Frederic Manning. Manning tracks international currency movements for a major transatlantic credit-rating firm.

These speculative but little-known financial instruments, including "interest-rate and currency swaps, hedging contracts and other derivatives deals that link American financial institutions to the region, run into several trillions of dollars," says Time correspondent Michael Duffy.

With Asian currencies plunging, many of these high-risk obligations now represent huge liabilities for Asian principals, whose default would "sweep U.S. banks into the mess; that is the strategic reason Rubin & Co. believe the Asian flu had to be contained before it spread," explained Duffy.

Derivatives are not the sort of prudent financial transactions in which respectable banks used to engage. They are "nervy gambling bets," made by Asian financiers "on their currency's future performance against the U.S. dollar," says John Crudele, a respected Wall Street financial columnist.

"It works like this." says Crudele. "Say Bank XYZ of San Diego expects the U.S. dollar will rise in value, while Bank ABC of Seoul believes it is the Korean won that is about to take off."

The two sides enter into a derivatives contract, making their respective wagers on the relative rise or fall of the two currencies. "Typically, the bet is many millions of dollars," noted the straight-talking financial writer.

The catch is that these contractual wagers ---"something that should be done at the tables in Vegas rather than on Wall Street" -- must be settled in U.S. dollars.

But the Korean currency got hammered a few months ago, "when the Korean government refused to fight the speculators who were taking it lower," Crudele said. "That made the Korean banks betting on the won [their national tender] big losers."

The shocking realization that the Korean banks, down on their luck, could not come up with the dollars to pay off their bets to the Americans "would have been really too bad for the American banks and companies that used such contracts to hedge against currency shifts and had already booked these trading gains as legitimate profits," Crudele explained.

To save Wall Street's gambling profits, Clinton, Greenspan and Rubin jumped in with the most massive foreign bailout scheme ever inflicted on American taxpayers.

"Paying off Oriental gambling debts would not sit well with Congress," Crudele said. "So the official line from the White House, the Federal Reserve [and Rubin's Treasury] is that the Asians merely took out loans that they now can't repay because their currency and their economy suddenly took a turn for the worse."

But before another penny is earmarked for the Asian bailout "Americans should demand an accounting" of the role played by derivatives gambles in the crisis, Crudele urged.

His views were echoed by other leading experts such as Michael Metz, a financial analyst and investment strategist at a leading Wall Street firm.

Runaway derivatives speculation is "the gathering storm on the global economic horizon," Metz told The Spotlight.

The Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland ( known as "the central bankers' central bank," ) estimates that a staggering $60 trillion is currently riding on such volatile, casino-type derivatives markets around the world.

But other observers, including Metz, consider that figure "probably too low."

"The total is likely nearer $100 trillion," Manning says. "Consider the threat implicit in this setup: What is now by far the world's largest financial exchange -- derivatives trading -- is also its most secretive, unaccountable, unregulated speculative and chancy market.

"The so-called global economy, hailed by Clinton and his free-trader friends, is dangling from a very thin thread over an abyss no future bailout can bridge."

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:30 - ID#31868)
Let's see if Lott has alot to say.

Lurker 777
(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:35 - ID#317247)
Help me out here, what am I missing? I thought you were saying that Phillies are discounted.

You posted:

Date: Tue Jan 27 1998 19:39

Barb Hughes ( @ALL ) ID#20783:

Lurker 777: Right church wrong pew. Eagles liquid -- Phillies liquid ( usually discounted - not popular! )

Then you posted:

Date: Tue Jan 27 1998 21:59

Barb Hughes ( @Lurker 777 ) ID#20783:


Reason for premiums over Eagles & Mapes is they are not off the shelf item!!!!

Do you understand what THIN MARKET MEANS????


Which are comparing PALL to AU in LIQUIDITY...

LIKE Phillies to Eagles & Mapes...

SEROUSLY ----- You're pulling our CHAINS aren't ya?????

Anybody who plays in LOT #'s ( at a crack ) SHOULD d$$$ ( like in hold water ) know BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take care...Barb

Barb I am not pulling anyone's CHAIN and please let me make it perfectly clear: I take buying Philharmonics very seriously. I have a large position and plan on buying more. Since you are a large player I listen to your posts and hope to gain some insight. I have shopped around and 4.5% over spot is the best price I have found. Am I paying to much?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:38 - ID#20748)
JTF. Yes you can
"Lincoln had previously expressed his confidence in the judgement of a people taken as a whole in these famous words: ' You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time.' It was a simple reiteration of the old saying: Vox Populi, Vox Dei ( the voice of the people is the voice of God ) and of the Islamic dogma that the ijma ( collective opinion ) of a whole people cannot be wrong. Lincoln could not foresee the power of television to fool all the people all the time."

The above is an excerpt from the book "Three Horsemen Of The New Apocalypse" which appeared in a book review in the Spectator magazine dated January 17, 1998.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:46 - ID#339212)
@ Haggis_A and the 3 gentlemen who agree with Haggis on POG

My dear friends, an hour or so ago you broadcasted some very sad news, - and now I am in the process of recovering from your unexpected thunderbolt - the news being you conservative estimates on the price of gold for 1998. Haggis, you said $340-$290, a few more generous optimists added some change, but all of you came below $400.

If that's all to be expected in 1998 for gold, I think that we all are pis--ng against the wind.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:48 - ID#269320)
Neophyte-Open Interest
Open interest is total number of contracts in a commodity

or option market that are still open; that is, they have not

been exercised, or closed out, or allowed to expire. the term also

applies to a particular commodity or, in case of an option, to the

number of contracts outstanding on a particular underlying security

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:48 - ID#31868)
The wrong guy is running the country. Lott did have a lot to say.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:49 - ID#318118)
Morgan Stanley lowered the investment rating on ABX fron outperform
to neutral. This was announced after the closing bell today.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:53 - ID#238422)
Sir, if we got to piss, we got to piss even against
the wind. Nature never lies... Sorry.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:54 - ID#238422)
Myrmidon - sorry, of course not Murmidon.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:54 - ID#26669)
Highrise not your fault.
I'm sorry for the anger. I'm still very tense about Somalia. I resigned my reserve commision then in great part because I will not serve under a CC who wastes troops in public relations adventures.

Only humor in the whole thing for me is maybe he'll get Steven Segal's friend Tyrone as a roomie in prison.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:55 - ID#41229)
Bill's speech well delivered, the guy should of been in the movies.

Having problem with new math!

More cops+ more prosecuters+ more judges + more schools + more teachers + more programs = smaller government!

smaller government + lower taxes ( families making $35,000 with 4 kids pay no fed tax ) + social security bailout = balance budget.

I need his accountants, I'm actually a millionare and didn't even know it.

Good delivery, sounded like campain speech, everybody promised something, even Saddam.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:58 - ID#286230)
Pres Bill came booming into Toronto on 5 US channels and when Monica speaks it will be on 8 additional Canadian channels. I still say having 1 politician representing both the politics of the day and the moral values of the country is a structure with built-in problems. Most comparable countries have the 2 functions held by 2 people be they both elected or 1 one inherited. I have heard this was a good idea for years but never really understood it until this last week.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 22:59 - ID#41229)
Lurker 777
Thanks for the info.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:00 - ID#420304)
Well there are a few who missed my meaning. And in this I may have been missleading, a current phrase. I said I dont care if the President did the deed I said I cared if he lied. I dont give diddly if he takes all of the Capitols ladies of leasure to bed. Oh yeah middle America doesnt know that everyone from the Govenor down does it at intermiten times with....women!

Holly scripture women are they part of the sexual act?

I said that if he did have a sexual affair with Lewisnky..well hell all his luck. But, this is the destinction - if he lied about it he would be out, if he came to be know to be lying about it he would be out.

The lie is the thing, sex is I belive still NOT a crime in the FREE United States of America.

Or maybe it is...

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:00 - ID#42365)
HAHAAHAHHA precisely

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:01 - ID#243235)
golden eagles
anyone know of a reputable and well-known dealer/source that may have a good deal on quantities of 50-100 1/10 golden eagles? what are the chances of my getting these for less than 10% over spot?

thanks to all who responded re: info on TVX the other night.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:01 - ID#401460)
Here they come out of the woodwork!

Former High School Drama Teacher, with his wife by his side, says that he had a 5 year affair with Monica, and that he received mail from her saying she was having an affair with a high official in Washington, BUT he implied that she could exaggerate or dramatize a situation. NBC


(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:03 - ID#339212)
@ oris
You remeber how much fun we had when good debate excited Karlito and LGB2? If this is what we aim for, they were right in calling us "Impoverished"

I miss them and hope for their return, What happened to the $600 + predictions? We too became bears? Are we after a 20% return? This is for the windows and orphans.

LGB2 and Karlito would laugh with us all. Revise your estimates gentlemen. Brokerage houses and Wall Street analysts do it all the time.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:04 - ID#42365)
Yes i know where u can get them... Iknow a very reputable dealer.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:04 - ID#243235)
sorry-i mean "gold" eagles, of course.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:05 - ID#57232)
BC Got elected by convincing press the Gennifer Flowers scandal was a lie.
HighRise: You forgot one -- BC lied to the press to get elected, he was so convincing during that primary years ago they ( and the people ) forgot about GF. Now, he admits the affair. I hope those members of the press that got hoodwinked all of these years are hopping mad! I would be.

I wonder -- the Paula Jones trial post Monicagate is going to be a show stopper!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:05 - ID#153102)
Anyone know the legal status of options in metals if trading is halted
by the exchange ? For example, due to massive default on underlying futures contracts ?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:07 - ID#42365)
Wyzzard mail me

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:10 - ID#339212)
@ refer on the President's talk

Half way in his speech, I turned off the TV and regretted the time wasted watching him. It seems the only place one can find some intellectual stimulation nowadays is Kitco. For this I thank everyone of you.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:12 - ID#57232)
Thanks for your 22:38
NJ: Appreciate your quote. If Lincoln found those older references a stimulus for his speech, I am impressed. He was well read. I'm not sure that TV allows one to fool the public all the time, but it sure makes it easier! I need to take a look at that book.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:13 - ID#393224)
Aussie gold
Aussie gold index up nearly 5% an hour before the close. All the majors--Normandy, Lihir, Delta, Acacia, Resolute up strongly. Even MIM ( copper ) well up. Some of the wannabes up even stronger. Gains of 50% or more from lows of a few weeks ago for some shares. The train has left the station and will soon be going too fast to jump on. Some of you waiting for a correction may yet get lucky--but I wouldn't count on it.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:14 - ID#401460)

You are missing the point.
The question is/are:
What is a lie?
What is a "sexual relation"?

Clinton is very careful to use "sexual relation", which according to Webster does not include BJs. He has used this with his Wife and Mistresses as a definition of Adultery also.

Therefore he hopes that he cannot be charged with perjury, because according to Webster, he did not lie.

Yes, it does take a Women. Much more enjoyable and if it's your Wife, its historically OK.

When you ask if a women was needed, I am sorry I think I missed something, are you suggesting same sex BJs and Adultery?


(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:17 - ID#31868)
FWIW call Jefferson Coin -800-593-2585 - Ask for Russ Savage. I have gotten excellent service in every aspect of dealing with them. In addition I have found Russ to be an excellent, honest, straight forward individual who serves as a superb representative of the company.

There are many fine dealers I am sure. I do not make a dime from telling you this. I can assure that 100% of my dealings with the company have been top shelf to say the least.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:19 - ID#238422)
Sorry, I did not completely understand
your post 19:34. What do you mean?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:19 - ID#401460)

How could I forget!

Paula Jones

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:21 - ID#57232)
Starr failed to bag Vernon Jordan
All: I don't know if this has been posted. The rumor is that Starr wanted to

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:21 - ID#42365)
another source
another very reputable source is Mike Fuljenz

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:23 - ID#57232)
Retry: Starr failed to bag Vernon Jordan
All: The rumor is that Starr wanted to wire Monica, to catch BC or Vernon on tape in a lie. But --- the Newsweek/Drudge report stuff got out before he got approval ( Janet Reno? ) .

Our FBI director probably moved up several notches post Monicagate in his battle with Janet Reno, the latter of whom I think has been partially or totally compromised. Has a serious medical problem and needs retirement medical support.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:25 - ID#339212)
@ mozel

Very good question. My guess is that the options will be at partial risk.
You will get say 30 ozs delivery on a 100 oz contract. If the seller is gone bust, from whom you will collect? I don't think that it is a legal issue. Either you get it, or you get something, or you get nothing.

Go gold stocks and take delivery.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:26 - ID#41229)
The point that I would strees to you is "Charactor counts"

If a person lies cheats and steals at home, he will do it at work. A cheat is a cheat is a cheat.

I would not condone BJC's actions by saying everybody does it, I would say it time to make people accountable for their actions.

Maybe if standards were higher, we would have people with higher standards!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:29 - ID#335190)
mozel @ 22:24
Outstanding post - Great information - 60 to 100 Trillion Us Dollars?
**the world's largest financial exchange -- derivatives trading -- is also its most secretive, unaccountable, unregulated speculative and chancy market.**

To have such information become a topic of discussion in open forum in our respective countries will take many years. The difficulty with such information, the worker/citizen is threatened by such insightful information.

The worker/citizen is afraid to think. ( Be Quiet..Consume..and Die ) Yes, when you ask them to consider such information they will attack you. Yes, they are conditioned to accept "Free Enterprise" as their friend. ( Mom & Pop Enterprise )

An example can be referenced here at Kitco, there is a reference by some posters to "THE POWERS TO BE" ( What the hell can such a statement mean )
Yet, a considerable amount of information has been posted to suggest, and support the fact, at least raise the discussion, that Central Bankers & International Bankers/Corporations, are in fact the enemy ( well considered as having an agenda not compatible with the public interests ) of the free and democratic system. ( We The People )

Democracy: government by the people/rule of the majority.

No, most worker/citizen, do not accept that Business/corporations, and public/individual interests, must be Balanced. Sooo, Mushrooms-R-Us.

1998 - USofA & Canada are Plutocracy: Government by the Wealthy/a controlling class of the wealthy ( Central Bankers/International Bankers )
Be Quiet...Consume...And Die ! Such is the effective control of the worker/citizen.
Again, great post, Thanks, Take Care.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:30 - ID#28594)

Date: Tue Jan 27 1998 22:24

22:24......2+2+2+4= PURRFECT 10!!!!!!!!!!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:32 - ID#238422)
You are right, no fun. It was so long since I had it....

Never mind...

Take care.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:33 - ID#93199)
Fidelity Select Gold Chart
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:34 - ID#432107)
Regarding Bill
As a Canadian the Bill Clinton affair is just another soap opera for me.
I find the grand scale that this affair has taken on quite amazing. I have never seen a State of The Union Address televised on Canadian channels before.

Are people this surprised that Bill had an extramarital affair. I don't think so. Jay Leno has been joking about them for five years now.
Are people this surprised that a politician may have lied about something. I'll let you answer that one. Could it be that people are just surprised and stunned that a politician could get caught doing such a thing.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:34 - ID#401460)

You posted:
"The lie is the thing, sex is I belive still NOT a crime in the FREE United States of America."

In the secular world yes; however,in the real world you may get Herpes, AIDS, or shot by a pissed off Husband or Father. And if you are the President you will certainly embarrass your nation and it's citizens.

No one can justify immorality, that is a historical fact. We all know there are a lot of dumb yahoos out there who think they are getting away with something - just like the Prez.

Does anybody have any more info on the Dallas Morning News article that was pulled last night?

This will kill the IMF!
Watch the US$ and Bonds.
WATCH the CRB, Oil and GOLD
We are in the wild West now.


(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:36 - ID#420304)
I get your point. And I agree, but with the American public having let the guy go this far.

Why get uptight about the Milk already spilt. XQZ the pun....

The only thing he will do by going is to wreck the market. Thats all, well and the Presidency but then that aint worth sqwat if the American public dont through him out, which seems unlikelly.

The lie today is what is important to my investment horizon. ie The subject of this site. If he goes down in history as the great American lie, I dont care. Yet if it clouds my day Today I do.

Barb Hughes
(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:37 - ID#20783)
@Lurker 777

NO! You are not paying too much....BUT you are buying what
Y O U W A N T !!!

Remember ---The trend is your friend my dear & you seem to be the lonley little petunia in the onion patch.

AND am afraid you may be in the minority my friend --- ONLY wanting to HELP N O T to S E L L you anything!!!!

K-Rands & Spotted Pandas are more marketable in our opinion than Beautiful Phillies.

P.S. See classified ads 1/18/98 ---someone has 2700 Phillies --- maybe he will cut you a deal????

Take care...Barb

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:38 - ID#57232)
World OTC Derivatives trading
Mozel, SDRer,6pak: It is so easy to forget that everytime the market twitches, some big gambler ( bank, investment firm ) is probably losing money in derivatives. Black-Scholes at it again! I think these losses are probably evenly distributed around the world -- like silent, secret weapons draining assets and profits dry. 1% losses of 60-100 trillion is close to a trillion. I wonder -- the world is addicted to derivatives -- how much longer before it all implodes? I'm not so sure any more that D. A. is right that we will escape deflation. Perhaps.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:40 - ID#259160)
CEF Fujnd
CEF fund is 45% silver and is headed up!

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:44 - ID#401460)
Jay Leno
Jay Leno:
Clinton really upset last night he accidental picked up the red phone and tried to have phone sex with Boris Yeltsin.

Jay Leno says that "We are really going to be in trouble if he pulls out of this."

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:45 - ID#420304)
I feel this is getting into the subject of elections and as such I will not carry on. Yet I will say that if more than 50% of 40% of the people in the USA elected a president it might be better. The USA gets the lower than average politicians it deserves. Get off the couch and vote and you may see a difference,
yet I fear not!
Politicians are the same all over.

To the business at hand,
Gold is above $300 and it seems as in some quarters it is thought to go higher. I wonder?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:48 - ID#153102)
Serious Matter
'You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people
all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time.' It
was a simple reiteration of the old saying: Vox Populi, Vox Dei ( the
voice of the people is the voice of God ) and of the Islamic dogma that
the ijma ( collective opinion ) of a whole people cannot be wrong.
Lincoln could not foresee the power of television to fool all the people
all the time."

During the Dreyfus Affair in France, it was said 40 million French can't be wong. But, they were. And there was no television then either.

The Union and the Constitution were established on the principle of government by the consent of the governed. Lincoln overthrew that principle by resorting to force. Congress ratified what he had done. Lincoln and Congress together replaced the Republic with a legislative demon-cracy. In a legislative demon-cracy Vox Populi; Vox Dei. If you think the voice of the mob is the voice of God, you have mob rule. Do you think God speaks to man through the voice of a mob ? Congress thinks it is the Voice of God. Do you ? Or do you think Congress is a legislative mob.

There is not much security for life, liberty, and property in a nation where the government legitimizes mob rule. Hence, we are seeing more and more asset forfeiture, more and more denial of freedom of individual conscience, more and more confiscation of property.

People commonly talk about property as if it were a thing. It is not. Property is the bundle of rights which are owned with ownership of the thing.

Because the apparent form of government did not change and the founding documents of government did not change but were amended, the full evils of legislative demon-cracy have not yet befallen us. But, unless the Republic and the Constitution are restored, they will.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:49 - ID#42365)
what now?
what does anyone think metals will do in the following few days?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:49 - ID#252127)
Did anyone see Greenspan at the State of The Union?

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:49 - ID#336297)
Charts-Graphs-Wave Theories-Star Positions--------AND WHO WOULD

Barb Hughes
(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:51 - ID#20783)


If you can find them for 10% over...JUST BUY EM!!!

Take care...Barb

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:53 - ID#31868)
No, but then Greenspan does not sit in the cheap seats.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:55 - ID#339212)
@ all

The fact is that the gold market has already discounted the Clinton sex scandal and further revelations will have very little or no effect at all.

Whatever the case may be we should not partake in gossip which very much reminds us of the garbage talk shows seen on TV. If indeed he engaged in such acts, time will tell.

For now such talk makes us all gossipers and I don't feel good about it. Let us concentrate on something more intellectual and abstain from vain talk that gets us nowhere.

(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:55 - ID#153102)
Think harder. Oil and derivatives and swaps, etc. must be settled in in US$.

Barb Hughes
(Tue Jan 27 1998 23:56 - ID#20783)

They will either go UP, DOWN or STAY the same!!!

Take care...Barb