This chart picture has great compression and positive momentum.

If you look at the daily chart it looks like a giant foot ready to

kick something. I don't know exactly what to call this formation,

but I would be happy if it kicked up to the 13 area where it normally

resides. At these price levels, not seen in a score of years, I would

prefer no preaching about

JTF, you use the term "LOSSES" which suggests that something has been mis-placed, or never found. I suggest "LOSSES" is not the case.
Considering the fact that a record is keep of all economic accounts. I expect that someone else, has the item, that you reference as "LOSSES".

The "LOSSES" have been "RECEIVED" by others. Yes, it is accounted for, it is not lost. : ) : ) : )
Thanks, Take Care.

Date: Tue Jan 27 1998 22:24
mozel ( Can US make good on the 20th century's version of the tulip contracts ) ID#153102:

Very informative post, you thoughts and knowledge are a real asset to this bb. Thanks.

Seen them all. Robert, Donna, Janet, a couple of Generals, Cohen, Hillary........but no Greenspan.
Quess he needs a break, or did Bill stand-in for him.

You are right.
My problem is that if Clinton goes down my Gold investments will do fine; but my business will go into the toilet.

That is why I invest in Gold and Mining Stocks for a hedge against inflation and impeachment.

No Matter what happens, it is not right to permit an immoral person hold the highest office in the land - no matter how good of a speaker / BSer he is.

By the way, lest you miss judge me, I have been around the block a couple of times myself; and I am not proud of being able to say that. I feel I have a earned the right to discuss such matters - the hard way. I have seen what is happening to the President many times before. It is an old old story that some men seem compelled to repeat.

Unfortunately, History repeats itself, that is why Gold will have it's day again. And there will be bad days following good days - we have had a very long good day.

HighRise

London, Wednesday 0330 GMT
Political and general news; Business and economic news; Today's newspaper at a glance

Clinton speech tries to shift spotlight away from scandal

US President Bill Clinton tried to shift the spotlight from the White House sex scandal in the State of the Union speech by offering proposals on social security and the minimum wage. In the annual speech to Congress, outlining his ambitions for the year, Mr Clinton called on lawmakers to overhaul the social security retirement system and to shore it up with projected budget surpluses. He also urged Congress to raise the minimum wage and to quickly reform the Internal Revenue Service.

http://www.ft.com/hippocampus/

Jin

Gong Hi Fa Choi! 888

In the dialect of Beautiful Jewel ( my real boss ) here at home.

Barb Hughes always appreciate learning from your posts. Would like to add for any NZ lurkers that Krands and other non 9999 coins attract 12.5% GST, as well as the odium of being S African, so we ship them off to Nick@C. {Crusty, NZ almost broke into civil war during the hated springbok tour of 81 - the remnants of that attitude together with the GST tax premium, is near fatal to K Rands in NZ}

JTF, NJ, One of my references "The world's Greatest Crooks and Conmen" by Nigel Blundell suggests that the following words, generally attributed to Lincoln, were in fact first spoken by Phineas T Barnum:

"you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time."

Ain't that something.

And, if I may stoop for a short while, I recall that Barnum's two other well-know coined phrases are perhaps aptly recalled in the US tonight:

"There's a sucker born every minute."

and

"Never give a sucker an even break."



aurator_hidingmyface_in_shame@myaudacity )

Where was Greenspan?
WOW! That could be significant.
RATE INCREASE
or maybe he has been told no increase?
and just decided to stay home.

Didn't he sit with Hillary 6 years ago?

HighRise

In a world of mob rule governments, which is financially speaking basically the sort of world we are living in, the lender and the man who stands surety for another man is fully exposed to default.

Put a 10 trillion dollar loss on any national economy you can name and tell me what "working capital" is left. How do you get a $10 trillion loss out of $200 billion of bankruptcies ? Financial dominos.

27% of the "capital" of Credit Lyonaisse was exposed in Indonesia.

6pak: I stand corrected. You are right as long as the options/derivatives markets are functioning as designed. Problem is -- the big losers might be key players. I wonder -- who do you think the winners are? The hedge funds? The people who set up the markets? ie -- the

6pak: I stand corrected. You are right as long as the options/derivatives markets are functioning as designed. Problem is -- the big losers might be key players. I wonder -- who do you think the winners are? The hedge funds? The people who set up the markets? ie -- the 'House'? Who is the House on the OTC?

If we use a random walk-type approach to this, and assume on average noone player gets all the money, I would bet that market fluctuations would still increase the number of big losers in the pool -- especially the relatively conservative players using Black-Scholes rules to get small profits with big investments. During the fluctuations, the Black-Schole predictions would be invalid, and certain derivatives investments that worked well in quiet times would be a wipe out.

There would be big winners also if they could stay one step ahead of the crowd. The short term market manipulators? But -- as we reach critical opalescence even the pros will get singed, IMHO. Wish I know more about derivatives.

There is no question the USA is broke, it is just that the people do not know it yet.

All: This is really odd! My posts are truncated only if I use quotes anywhere in my post! Does someone know my habits? Hope everyone is well rested for what's coming this year -- I think 1998 will be an interesting year for us delicate, but persistent gold bugs -- easily squashed but impossible to eradicate!

I had ask the question earlier about the press release last night that was pulled - here it is.

1/27/98 -- 11:41 PM

Newspaper clarifies retracted report on Clinton
DALLAS ( AP ) - President Clinton and Monica Lewinsky were seen in the White House in an
``ambiguous incident,'' not necessarily the ``compromising situation'' originally reported and
retracted, the Dallas Morning News said Tuesday.

On Tuesday, former U.S. Attorney Joseph di Genova, who is not directly involved in the case, told
the newspaper an intermediary for the witness or witnesses has made contact with Starr's office.
``In essence, your story is correct,'' di Genova said, declining to give details. Another unidentified source told the newspaper that it was unclear if the potential witness or witnesses had seen Clinton and Ms. Lewinsky in a compromising situation.

``What's incorrect is the phrase `compromising situation,' '' said the source.
http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news1007.htm

WE are now up to speed on the story.
Enough about Clinton for tonight.
AMEN

HighRise

The currency fire is spreading so fast nothing will control it. No matter what happens, people not holding mining shares and physical are going to be in for a rude awakening.

myrmidon----

guess you missed mine on friday----

gold is going to 400+ with-in 2 weeks.....give or take a week.....

when klinton goes.......so goes gold....to the moon.....
and it will be too late to get in.........yes, said again....

and klinton IS going......as he and his ilk deserve....

the burning of paper, and THE head-dick in washington as one
event....causing gold to bolt and never look back.....
the peopleo---realistic-----will be waving at the caboose.....

beans fixing to crash, along with corn......immmf.....we'll see....
bonds and us$ just getting started.....round 2 over-seas coming
very soon.......

some go, and the others just blow.....read kitco---the archives...
for the truth.......

eyes sewn shut-----see nothing......

gold to 650+ before the end of '98.....probably much higher
i've 1800oz worth of options......the pressure on this rotted-out
vessel has exceeded its' safe operational limits......the safety
pressure release valve was taken-out of service due to new construction
techniques that guarantees the vessel would never explode.....the
poor peopleo...they don't know.....the vessel is fixing to blow...and
with it will go, the sellers of gold............may their policies
burn with their paper.......and it will.....these idiots are STILL
selling cheap options with LOTS of time in them......time to make
the total 2000oz.......by friday......at least 2 more oct98 calls
strike of 390 or better.......$100--80......cheap in my book.....

cherokee!; ) --chanting-the-song-of-change--buy-more-gold--buy-more-gold--

Wednesday January 28, 12:00 am Eastern Time

U.S. gains, golds lead midday Australian stocks
Mining stocks in general and gold miners in particular dominated, and the gold sector index jumped another 3.7 percent.
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/u_s_gains__1.html

HighRise

Yep; he sat with Hillary 6 years ago. Could it be that Clinton's future spending plans irked him?
Tolerant; perhaps he was discussing the Asian situation with Camdessus?

"Wish I knew more about derivatives" I am in your camp regarding derivatives. Do not stand corrected, I was making a wisecrack.
Thanks take care.

I would hate to think of such a thing. No it is too painful. Of course on the other hand, Alan is probably saying, heh, heh, paper huh, heh, heh.

I will bet my bottom dollar that dirtbag Camdesuss has a bunch of gold socked away.

There was this doctor who lived in a farm house and had two young sons.
One was a born pescimist, the other a great optimist.

One day he bought a beautiful wooden horse and gave it present to the pescimist son. When he returned home in the evening he saw the wooden horse broken into pieces. Ears pulled, legs broken, wood everywhere.

Astonished of his kid's behaviour, he decided to make an experiment with the optimist son, so he bought some cheap toys and put them in the farm's barn and showed them to his son, hoping he will play with them.

When the father returned home in the evening, he went straight to the barn, and to his amazement he saw the optimist son digging the manure with both hands. He asked him what he was doing with the manure.

- Well dad, with so much s--t here there must be a pretty horse around.

Sekerparem
To Myrmidon - for nobility and correctness
to Mozel - for great wisdom and intellectual courage
To Oris - for nerves of carbide and an understanding of
history and Music - it was GORBI and DIZNI
To Colleen - there are none like thee among the dancers -
none with swift feet

We will meet soon, Enshal'lah
Al'lah O akbar

to the man with bow-strung-tightly.....it is rather bold ( or ridiculous ) to state that gold is going to 400 in two weeks. How do you figure?? It will be lucky to see 310 by then. 400??!?????!? Have you been 'sending' too many smoke signals from your smoke mobile?

away...to catch some of those signals



FT
Edward Luce in London

The price of exotic debt--paper issued by the worlds so-called pariah states such as North Korea and Cuba--has almost DOUBLED over the past 12 months in spite of the general market fall-out from the crisis in Asia.

...The secondary market price of defaulted debts issued by Liberia has doubled to 14 per cent in the past 12 months following the end of the cival war and the staging of democratic elections.

G'Night!

Aurator: A pleasure to post when upover ( me ) and downunder ( you ) both awake. I have that famous quote attributed to A. Lincoln [1809-1865], by Alexander K. McClure, p124 in 'Lincoln's Yarns and Stories' titled: To a caller at the White House. If this is so -- one of Lincoln's most famous quotes was 'off the cuff'.

My Bartlett's has only one quote from PT Barnum [1810-1891] -- 'There is a Sucker born every minute'. However, they were contemporaries, weren't they!

Poorboys - I see Bart had to use the poop scooper today -----Many great posts today ----many great ideas and not many commercials------maybe a few coinheads ---Kitco is distinguished ----Away to buy Gold on all dips.

Highrise

I read you are a Mac user. In case you did not see this earlier, here is a great little Shareware application for converting 100s of units ( say Troy oz ) into 100s of other Units ( Metric Tons )

Very relevant to Gold!
Nightline George Steppennopolis  the Clintons will not leave without a fight they are not particularly friendly with the Dems on the Hill when they come to say it is time to leave; Clinton may say it is time for you to leave the White House we are staying! Dick Morse is back, very important James Carville does not like him, he detest him. G.S.  There may be division in the Clinton Camp now.
This is going to drag out, go gold!
ABC Poll 74% say Monica was a right wing set-up. Go Figure that one.

JTF we forgot to add Dick Morse to "The List"
Can you believe that they brought this sleeze back.

I guess, before the speech, they checked under the podium for any Interns.

HighRise

Aurator: Interesting idea! You probably know better than I!

Gung Hai Fat Choy to you and Jin!

We had our Chinese newyears banquet two days early. Spent hours talking to a fellow born in Romania, spent early years in Isreal, later years in Orient -- knows 8 languages! Just spent 10 years in Japan and Hong Kong -- most recent visit 2 months ago. Many topics discussed -- thinks SEAsia will take years coming back -- Asian solution -- European help ineffective. Thinks China will devalue yuan because nothing to lose as biggest potential market in Asia. Thinks Japan in deep trouble -- as we do. Hope to talk to him some more as he lives nearby.

You mispelled his name; it is Stephanopoulos instead of Steppenopollis.
He is Greek and in Greek his name means "Crowned Big Bird".
( Stephani = crown + poulos = big bird ) . Seriously so.

Sekerim
To rejoice in the wonder of our beloved desert - try
this delicious camel grab.

Have prepared one camel, one beef, one mutton, one
lamb, one chicken - Stuff one inside the other.
Beef into camel, mutton into beef ..... chicken into
lamb. Flavour with garlic and cumin. Dot throughout with
dates. Enjoy with rice and dream of gold.
Serves 500. Enshal'lah
Eat with left hand only as we use the right for
other purposes.
Al'lah O akbar

Come on be serious, it was three weeks ago that you said gold was going lower and $300.00 was out of the question. Face it EB your investment accumen leaves something to be desired. Rather than speaking before thinking how about trying a new version called LEARNING!

In addition to DROOY being what I consider to be a solid mining stock I have been looking at how people are being steered to it. I added a few more shares today because I think in the next leg up it will have been given the approval as a buy in the heads of alot of buyers who are looking at the golds.

Would you consider this a correct thought on my part. Just curious if you have noticed this and or ir you have similar thoughts of same regarding other mining companies. One which quickly comes to mind is IPJ.

Why is Dick Morris, the advisor who is credited with reelecting Clinton in '96, spreading GOSSIP on KABC in LA about Hillary's possible lesbianism as being the reason for her "husband's" philandering?

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a76098.htm

Mary Matalin played the excerpt on her show as well. If this is true, how do you explain such sickness at the very highest levels of this country to your kids?

An option is a promise for which some white man is surety.
The white man's bankruptcy court is the refuge of liars, scoundrels, cheats, and other breakers of promises.
The white man's exchange has been so, too. Read his history.
Read in the words of the broken truth teller in Chicago of the great soybean case and the great bribes to the black robes and the deaths and confiscations of white men from across the great water.

Heed the words of the great white founding fathers who were honest men:
A coin of gold or silver is itself surety for itself.

January 28, 1998
Clinton urges Congress to pass fast-track ( updates quotes as delivered

WASHINGTON, Jan 27 ( Reuters ) - President Bill Clinton told Congress on Tuesday not to back away from trade but to pass stalled fast track trade negotiation legislation.

"I will renew my request for the fast track negotiating authority necessary to open more new markets and create more new jobs, which every president has had for two decades," Clinton said in his State of the Union address.

He also said he would boost programs to help communities cope with plant closing and to help workers who lose jobs because of trade and new technologies retrain for new employment.

The president wants fast track to negotiate an expansion of the North American Free Trade Agreement to include Chile and to strike market opening deals with Asia and Latin America. He also needs it for global negotiations to open up agriculture trade set to start next year.

"Change is not always easy, but we have to reap its benefits," Clinton said. "Remember the big picture: While we have been entering into hundreds of new trade agreements, we have been creating millions of new jobs."

Mozel, people around here are saying that
you are smart and your posts are intellectual.
John Disney, who has my deepest respect, just said
"Hi" to you. It means a lot to me...

I recall I told you one time something like
"get lost". For these vulgar words I'm sorry,
I was in bad mood that day. Weather was also
bad, and Red Wings lost the game....

Honest Oris...

eb--hope you did not 'swallow the hook!'

the line is long enough for you to swim around
the reef looking for the coral of truth......it is
there......listen to your eyes..they are screaming at you....

some-things have so much intrinsic potential energy as to
defy logic.......the near and long term future will defy
logic unless you understand a very basic elemental law
of physics.....

'for every action there is an equal, and opposite reaction' i newton

don't mess with, or bet against, the laws of the universe.....

the un-movable object is riding on top of the irrestible force....
they are as one........look at the $9.00 rise on friday...just on
the possibility of impeachment or resignation.......wait till
it 'actually' happens.....and it will...they ( congress ) are moving
forward quite rapidly..........so should those in the throes of
deciding what to do.......act accordingly.....and prudently.....

hillary is sharpening her blade......aka.....billary bobbit.....schwing!
the deed done.......now a raspy soprano.....and with-out office......

cherokee!;...climbing-the bean-stalk-------ready-to-yodle----

HighRise: I bet Hillary has told the Secret Service to keep BC away from any temptations -- in a novel use of their function -- which has traditionally been to protect the President, not to protect the public. Maybe now Dick Morris is back, because by current White House standards, he looks good! Alot has happened to BC in the last few days.

Sorry -- I don't ususlly stoop this low -- but it is getting late and I couldn't resist.

By the way, public opinion really is shifting. Even spouse, who voted by BC, because of all the 'good he has done' has come around. This Monicagate stuff is shifting the tide. The ebb and flow will eventually get the gold markets, and the equity markets to go the way we expect them to go, IMHO. But -- as we painfully know -- the markets make their own decisions when they want to.

Much to the chagrin of various prominent goldbugs, Wall Street bulls have stolen their thunder and become America's most visible conspiracy theorists.

"It's just a right wing conspiracy," WS bulls are saying in response to recent legal problems afflicting their demi-gold, BC. "Everywhere you look...under every stone you tun over...there's a damn right wing conspiracy seeking to undermine our wonderful government and our Lord Jesus Christ ( in the form of BC ) "

When asked his opinions on his wife's allegations concerning the great right wing conspiracy, BC reportedly said, "THEY"RE EVERYWHERE, MAN!!! THEY"RE CRAWLING UP MY SKIN!!! I CAN"T SLEEP AT NIGHT!!! AAAAAGGGHHH...THOSE DAMN RIGHT CONSPIRACISTS!!!

Thanks

HighRise

On December 24 I moved my wifes IRA out of Fidelity ContraFund and into PreciousMetals and AmericanGold after a weeks visit in the Money Market. As of today, I would be down $183 including the distibution I missed if I would have let her keep gambling in the stock market.

I am actually $1,300 ahead of the foregone investment because of precious metals. Thank you, Thank you! CNBC here I come, wonder boy investor of the month. How are you doing Karlito?

See how a little faith in reality can pay off.

Liked you camel a la matreska recipe...

Here is Siberian soup - put your leather
shoes in a snow water and boil until smells
like it's done. Also eat with left hand,
use right hand to scare the bear away...

I will eat everything else except the camel. This is the most useful desert animal proven over thousands of years. I view it similar to the horse. Never, never I will eat a camel. Consider it as a pet although rather big.

You are a big, solid man, Oris, and I would take your word for a bond.

Morning to All!

JTF- Still awake??!! How are you? Morning to you Aurator- John Disney SDRer!-



Thanks to Haggis and John D for Soros information - Neil had sent some book titles earlier- but only John D in classical fashion had given it to me outright!!



Any more? Aurator? SDRer? How about you JTF?- do you think that whatever Soros does will affect economies and precious metals in some way?



Take care- Hello Jin- Happy New Year!

If I stay away from those pesky quotation marks, I can post! Odd, isn't it!

Changing the Earth's
Climate for Business....The World Bank....and the Greenhouse Effect

by Daphne Wysham and Jim Vallette

DHEN KANAL DISTRICT, INDIA -- As the sun rises on the eastern Indian state of Orissa, women balance brass pots on their heads, and make their way to the banks of the Nandira River. Rather than dip their pots in the river water, as they have for generations in this small fishing village, they dig with their bare hands several feet from the sandy shore until they can scoop water, handful by handful, into their pots. In front of them flows a gray, lifeless tributary, the banks coated with a thick coat of ash. Fish -- once plentiful -- no longer swim in these waters.

Upstream, in Talchar, stands the pride of the World Bank: a newly built coal-fired power plant, at 3,000 megawatts one of the largest in Asia. The World Bank loaned $375 million for this facility over a 10-year period, most of which went to multinational energy companies.

The Multinational Monitor

Wednesday January 28, 12:30 am Eastern Time

World Bank president in Thailand Jan 30-Feb 1

BANGKOK, Jan 28 ( Reuters ) - World Bank President James Wolfensohn will visit Thailand from January 30-February 1 to meet senior Thai officials on the latest developments in the crisis-hit country, a bank official said on Wednesday.

The World Bank is a contributor to a $17.2 billion bail-out package that was given by the International Monetary Fund to Thailand last August.

An IMF review of the package's terms for Thailand is to take place between February 2-14.

Wolfensohn will fly to Singapore on Sunday, the Thai bank official said.

He will travel to Indonesia on the evening of February 3 and leave Jakarta for Manila on February 5, where he will stay until February 6, the bank said in statements released earlier in the day.

`` ( He ) will visit Asia for a first-hand assessment of the region's actions to overcome the financial crisis, and to discuss the Bank's support for financial sector reforms and social programmes to protect the poor,'' the bank said in a statement issued in Manila.

He also plans to visit Malaysia and South Korea but the precise itinerary was not yet known.
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/world_bank_2.html

HighRise

mozel----

you're posts are ALWAYS read......bm

be assured....physical is damned important and
definitely not over-looked....as my posts indicate...
my plan is options for leverage, and physicals for
a guarantee....

the options are also my way of attacking the fiat curriencies
of the world......let the peopleo wake-up and begin buying gold...
paper will burn, and the metals will once again assume their place
as stability for modes of exchange ( future curriencies )

the derivatives are the best way to apply pressure with minimal
exposure and very little dinero........pour on the coals and stoke
the fire......the boiler is fixing to blow.......

get on, or get out of the way........where's that pile of coal?

james carville-----foaming at the mouth attack dog......billary.....
lawyer lies.......tell the truth, and it shall set you free......

1000k in '98.........gold to 400oz......damned soon......wooooooooo
wooooooooo---woooooooooooooooo........ we'll see...........


!;

cherokee!;...awaiting-the-last-gasp-of-the-gold-shorts----

60 to 100 trillion in derivatives is, well, tulips. I was looking at the stock markets, but that isn't really where the tulips are.

Thank you for two most informative posts. Your post re property is central to gold ownership and its perils in the U. S. I am curious if similar threats to property rights exist in Canada and Australia, or if they have ever suffered gold confiscation.

You guys were serious!

He has been nominated for a Nobel Piece Prize!

HighRise

JTF: Since the opinion line is open, I would opine that there is no stomach in this corrupt republic for sacking the chief executive. Too many people would have to modify or discard all of the warm fuzzy reasons for voting for him in the first place. .... Your wife may an exception but I don't think she is the rule.

He may not enjoy much in the way of effectiveness for the remainder of his term but I sincerely do not believe that term will be truncated. .... Judged by information presented so far. ...... Even if he were tied to a murder ( presented tongue in cheek ) the spin would be that the victim had treated a "sitting President of the United States" in a gross and egregious fashion and deserved his/her fate. It was done for the good of the people.

colleen
for obvious reasons I usually refrain from predicting or commenting on the future*..I have just received some E wave analysis from NZ's other goldbug that is truly bearish for gold. Once I figure out what he is saying and how to post I'll get back to the group, Just thought I could "put" a contrarian oar in the water...no facts yet....just de waves...of Elliot...


* ie I dunno the future, and if the truth be told, I don't know much about the present either.....someone wise ( Nichiren Daishonin ) once said "if you want to know the past, look to the present. If you want to know the future, look to the present."

Dave in CO you posted:
Why is Dick Morris, the advisor who is credited with reelecting
Clinton in '96, spreading GOSSIP on KABC in LA about
Hillary's possible lesbianism as being the reason for her
"husband's" philandering?
WOW!
This is wild, weird stuff!!!!

4. Morris then said [paraphrase] Because of this, you would expect to see some "quasi-sexual" situations involving the president.

The host then asked Morris whether Hillary is so forgiving because of her sexual orientation, and Morris affirmed.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a76098.htm

Dear brothers
I am pleased to see a nice move in the ABX company as
it proceeds along its appointed path to $40 - a wondrous
doubling in its value to be. I admire the courage and
steel nerves of those who hold RYO. You will suffer much
but gain character and wisdom as sons of the desert.
Sons of pegasus, the bay that echos, and placer dome will
also have misfortune but gain in the end as they become
wiser men.
Those of crass and lowly tribes like mine who sadly
value money MUCH too highly will gain greatly as harmony
rises 50 fold and durban deep 80 fold to the amazement
of many.
However, in the long run, we will suffer as the money
will corrupt out souls. We will grow fat and stray from
the true path of Al'lah and Islam.
Perhaps those fine cricketing tribes of the southern
islands of the Arabian Sea will find the BEST and
truest way. A modest 10 fold gain in the value of
Goldfields, enshal'lah
Ignore the ravings of the mad dwarf outside my tent
as he bellows and tumbles in the sand. Throw him
some scraps as you pass him. He is a play thing of
Al'lah.
The above predictions are of course dependent upon
a continuing increase in the price of gold.
Al'lah O akbar

What's a soul?

Snowbird- Bart made it crystal clear why he can not allow Vronski continue as before even if he wanted to.

Grant- Thank you very much for your kind consideration. : )

Neil@16:19- I don't understand Pearl Harbor with the other two.

Kiwi, HighRise- Which piece did he get nominated for, Jennifer, Paula, ....?

The nation reacted with great disappointment to the Prez's STATE OF THE INTERCOURSE speech. A litany of fabricated economic stats bored the average American to tears. A proposed agenda calling for small government along with a significant increase in social services had Americans scratching their heads in bewilderment. The only real chuckles provided were in the form of BC's severe case of drymouth which had him sounding like he had taken three or four percodans in advance of his great windy spiel.

In the end, the speech frustrated Americans in failing to answer a variety of questions, including:

1 ) Did Lewinsky and the Prez ever join the Mile High Club on the Air Force One?

2 ) Did Lewinsky use either mouthwash or simple toothpaste ( and if so, what popular brands? ) to disguise the Presidential essence left lingering in her mouth?

3 ) Did the fond couple prefer to do "the Good Old Oral" with or without aural accompaniment? If so, did they select any particular favorite American classic songs ( e.g. God Bless America, This Land is Your Land, etc. ) ? Can the American people expect special Presidential Commemorative releases of any of these tunes in the near future?

It certainly would explain a lot. It also explains why Hillary can forgive her "husband" so easily. In Jennifer Flowers book, she said that she tried to steal Bill away from Hillary by hinting that Hillary might be lesbian. According to Flowers, Bill laughed and said, "Hillary has eaten more p____ than I have." As you knnow, Flowers has been vindicated and Clinton proved a liar about their relationship.

What a strategy by Morris to save his president, eh? A sham marriage with a sham wife standing by her man.

I also heard that Fox News has been playing the Morris interview as well.

An RYO owner left some RYO shares on the dash of his unlocked car expecting someone to steal them. To his surprise, when he returned to his car he found some more shares which another unhappy iinvestor had left next to his! ( I read it in the RYO Yahoo bulletin board )

For My brother Oris
Take it easy my brother as I wet my robes with
hilarity as I read your recipe for the Siberian
soup.
I must now find that Chinese laundry enshal'lah.
My beloved desert is vast.
Al'lah O akbar

No matter how you feel about the current fiasco surrounding the alledged actions of the President and or First Lady; you have to admit there is nothing healthy in this for their child.

Things are in a precarious state in my opinion.

The man who commands CIA NSA DOD FEMA , etc. has the morals of Caligula.

The Supreme Court selects the cases it will hear. It gave Starr another tool in this session. They ruled you do not have to be under oath to be subject to punishment for lying to a federal investigator. Five years and a big fine. This ruling definitely applies to any government employee. I have not read it so I don't know for sure who else it applies to. For now caveat vocator. This gives a special prosecutor the power of a Grand Inquisitor.

There is gut fear of Clinton in Washington. There is sworn testimony on record now with the State grand jury in Oklahoma that a Congressman stated that federal agency pwople knew about the bombing there in advance. Do you recall the political effect of that event ? Whose political strength was strengthened by it ?

For Chief salty of the southern island tribes.
It is said that the insane dwarf of Uthmaniyah
( no relation to the tumbling one outside my tent )
has made a similar forcast using the waves formed
by the wind upon the desert sands - a rise to 315
to 320 then a retest of the lows or worse.
The desert air grows chill. My robes are wet from a
recent accident er- I spilled my coffee.
I must reflect - peace be with thee my brother.
Al'lah O akbar

PS - I noted with amazement that over half of the
people of American still feel that their leader
is doing a good job. One wonders for these people.
truly.

So as our civilization advances Bismarck remains correct;"Might makes right."

They are not the portion of the American people I worry about.They have already been harvested.

Too many strains on the theories of probability in the past 5+ years; e.g., 4 former WJBC bodyguards died of identical execution style wounds to the head in the initial raid on Waco; federal agents conspicuously absent from the OKC fed. building, etc.

It's quiet now so I toss this out to you again for GW. Confiscation has been discussed at length, but his specific question was not addressed very well. ( I think ) He wants to know how you all plan to use gold if it is declared illegal where you live.

Might makes Right is the Law of the Beast.
Civiliaztion is an ambiguous word covering eveything from Inca human sacrifice to the Third Reich.
Might makes Right is a political proposition. It is not a political proposition agreeable to any religion or morality that bestows on individuals an equal right to life, liberty, and property.

The American political proposition is, "WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed
by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the
Pursuit of HappinessThat to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men,
deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of
Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to
abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and
organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and
Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be
changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that
Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by
abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and
Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under
absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to
provide new Guards for their future Security."

Crusty

Aye, retest of the lows or worse...gotta have another look at this, and clear it with my mate before posting...

It is a way out for them.

Use Websters definition of "sexual relation" backed up by a marriage of convenience, with no sex. A lesbian Wife, Ellen Degenerate type, public has been conditioned now to accept.

The definition of Adultery, historically, is that if the Wife approves - it is not adultery.

Do you suppose this is what their defense is going to be. Who would challenge a Gay relationship today.

Good Night All

HighRise

IMVHO I do not believe that confiscation will not be an option in the USA. On the other hand, should such occur, simple, the underground market that would be created once again through tryanny, would be a conduit for hand to hand transactions.

This government would make a serious error in my belief at attempting such an act of treason again.

It gives you 30% of DROOY plus scads of promising properties. I know this isn't very sexy right now, but just wait.

Let it be far and away from me with the mind of an ant to enter into such a conversation with you for three reasons. The first lies within the previous sentence for the entire world to see. Your grasp of the subject far exceeds mine.

The second, that I agree with you to the point of the bayonet upon which I would dive so that the honest might run up my back and kill the tyrannical human cancer which oppresses, and seeks to steal and rob freedom.

The third, my tiny ant point was that not much has been learned, nor changed. Sad but true. IMVHAO

Heard a John Glenn joke, it's not tooo mean, want to hear it?

Of course!!!

The third, my tiny ant point was that not much has been learned, nor
changed. Sad but true. IMVHAO

And so IMVHAO as well.

Thanks, I have been looking at that as well. Four stocks touted by Gold Newsletter in RSA are DROOY,EDG.J KGL.J RANGY - they have liked these stocks for some time now.

One of my personal favorites for the future is TNX and I always find change in the sofa to buy more.

The shuttle will go 25 miles per hour with the left hand turn signal on all the way!

Cheers!!! gulp, a shot of tequila at ya.

chuckle, I have been amazed that so many have such intense feelings about JG. We shoot the boy into space, he makes it back, goes into politics and the rest is history as it is said.

Being an Outsider looking in .........

"WHO" wants Clinton out ?

I don't refer to "the" average you or me - but "WHO" ?

To spin a line - Clinton would not have "a" problem, if he did not have "A" problem. So "WHO" wants him out ?

Just heard Dick Morris' quote on Hillary's sexual preferences on Michael Reagan's show. Even stranger than I imagined. If this is the WJBC defense and the American sheep buy it, the Chinese should be marching in through their port in Long Beach shortly.

To untaxed whiskey !

The other two branches of government.

John, with the vast majority of the press liberal, and the libs having taken over the educational system lock, stock and barrel in the US it is amazing only about 50% of the people still think BC is doing a good job. Of course when the economy is good, that helps. I still think all this will hurt the Dems in the upcoming election. Women, who are more liberal than men generally, will to a certain extent be turned off by this. Altho the feminist organizations who turned on Packwood and Thomas with a vengence are now no where to be seen. Funny thing.

Hmmmmmm. 'Tis an interesting thought; who would benefit and why? It appears that there are many things happening all at once and in many places around the globe. Once in a while during the blur of a tequila induced wind the smoke clears, but it is so difficult to tell who is saying what and for which purpose/s as we listen to those in government.

Quite frankly I don't think Gore will benefit from this one bit. IMHO

If we can afford the time and money to go to Texas, Honey Baby will take me to see the liftoff on NASA monitors at launch control!

Good night all.
gold is good
glug

Date: Wed Jan 28 1998 02:53
Haggis__A ( cherokee.......farfel..........others ) ID#398105:

Being an Outsider looking in .........

"WHO" wants Clinton out ?

I don't refer to "the" average you or me - but "WHO" ?

To spin a line - Clinton would not have "a" problem, if he did not have
"A" problem. So "WHO" wants him out ?

If I were a liberal Democrat I would want BC out, as he is doing more to hurt their cause now than help it. The people who want him out do not understand Algore's philosophy, or they would think twice about wanting him out.

Lott did come out with some pretty strong Mom, Dad, and Apple Pie words this evening following the speech. Big We The People behind him during his words on the monitor.

I think it is a bizarre concept to think that whatever Morris says about the First Lady might be used as a defense of the President. Like I said earlier he looked like deadwood walking this evening during the speech.

One thing that disturbs me greatly about this is it opens a Pandora's box of hot feelings and hatred which will serve no good, and it will take a long while for the wounds of this mess to heal shoulld all of these allegations pan out.

In many ways this looks like 1872, Barney Barnato, Cecil Rhodes, and J B Robinson. This has got to be Valhalla rediscovered. Just think, all

of these wonderful properties, and everyone forsaking them. If you have

Here is the text of the Dick Morris interview including the lesbian stuff. Morris says some Repubs want WJBC to stay so they don't have to run against Gore as an incumbent, so I guess that some of the media and some Dems are the ones who want him out. Morris is a sleaze but he is bright.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a76638.htm

I have yet to hear one person tell me they like Gore. He is like Velveeta that has been sitting on the kitchen counter too long. Gore might be put in but he would be deadmeat in the next election.

To my brother Goldkm
Be not hasty to thirst for rangy as I have overheard
conversations in the souk at Air Dar that they are disposing
of much of their harmony and their Durbandeeps to
concentrate of their exploration efforts in other parts of
Africa. I too have some and I puzzle at this rumour - but the
rumour is strong and the information in that souk is reliable.
Thirst for them but for other reasons, enshal'lah
Al'lah O ahbar

Please my brother goldkm
Do not speak too much of these wonders. Provide information
selectively. Please help keep the riff-raff away.
Keep the faith ( ISLAM ) , enshal'lah
Al'lah O akbar

Date: Wed Jan 28 1998 02:53
Haggis__A ( cherokee.......farfel..........others ) ID#398105:
Being an Outsider looking in .........
"WHO" wants Clinton out ?
I don't refer to "the" average you or me - but "WHO" ?
To spin a line - Clinton would not have "a" problem, if he did not have
"A" problem. So "WHO" wants him out ?


mozel ( Can US make good on the 20th century's version of the tulip
contracts ) ID#153102:
The largest financial rescue operation in history has so far failed to
stem the economic devastation of East Asia. This raises the question:
Just what are the promoters of this mammoth bailout--President Bill
Clinton, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and Treasury Secretary
Robert Rubin --- hiding from the public?

Runaway derivatives speculation is "the gathering storm on the global
economic horizon," Metz told The Spotlight.

The Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland ( known as "the
central bankers' central bank," ) estimates that a staggering $60
trillion is currently riding on such volatile, casino-type derivatives
markets around the world.

Haggis__A ( CJS1__A.............. ) ID#398105:
Mass default on futures contracts..
In the scheme of things, in the GOLD "food chain", it is clear that a
Cartel with control of gold and banks would gain on gold going up and
down.
Mass default on futures contracts..
The miners can always access gold, and so can the Central Bankers. The
"Bhoys" in the middle, selling gold short...well, they could get
themselves in strife. Cannon fodder............think of Waterloo !!!?
Mass default on futures contracts..
Aye, Haggis

OLD GOLD MY DEAR CHAP, OLD GOLD..................

Good grief. Well, I bet that interview picked up the ratings. I just, I just, well, obviously I have without doubt made some harsh comments in relation to the Clintons.

My thoughts were along what they were doing in government. Plain and simple. Certainly many of the things I read concerning the many other matters as has been related in the press did nothing to aid in removing my dislike for their political concepts and actions.

However, Mr. Starr and I will be polite, has found nothing, and if he has we need to fire him and find someone who alledgedly can utilize evidence which supposedly exists to carry on the investigation. There are days when I wonder if he really wants to prosecute the cases he has or if he is there to protect someone/s.

But this is getting rediculous. If they have evidence then use, if not, shut up and lets get back to normal day to day activities. But this endless list of this that and the other, and accusations.

Innocent till proven guilty and in my eyes that is the law and the way it should be. If Starr worked for me he would have left my office with a deep set of Killer Whale teeth marks in his ass. And I am not talking about the donkey he is supposed to be "secretly" working for.

In addition he looks well fed and if I am not mistaken, gets paid pretty well. If he is worth what he gets paid and what has been spent I say add him to my list of stuffed suits from which I see no results.

It is one thing to dislike someone/s due to political thinking, it is another entirely to witness a public assasination.

It takes two to bet, the "Bookie" always wins.

The Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland ( known as "the
central bankers' central bank," ) estimates that a staggering $60
trillion is currently riding on such volatile, casino-type derivatives
markets around the world.

OLD GOLD...........

GET CAMDESUSS!!!

" ( A chill wind off the desert ) ID#24135:
For Chief salty of the southern island tribes.
It is said that the insane dwarf of Uthmaniyah
( no relation to the tumbling one outside my tent )
has made a similar forcast using the waves formed
by the wind upon the desert sands - a rise to 315
to 320 then a retest of the lows or worse."

Such an insane thing would perhaps forestall a scene of consternation in the souk over undeliverable metal. Did the dwarf see into the window of the future calendar as well as into the window of future price ?

For Goldkm by brother and for Chief Polarbear in the Eastern
Regions.
Rumours are rife. I have learned from the Abqaiq souk that
the Rangy discount to NAV is almost 50%. NAV 14 rand - but
rangy trades 8 1/4 - surely a gift from Al'lah - he is
in truth good and merciful to the faithful enshal'lah
I rushed to add to what I have. But please keep thy lips
sealed, my brother
Al'lah O akbar

With all the respect due a long time observor of OLD GOLD, I hazard another opinion, thinking the banker's scenario is one designed to PREVENT a mass default on futures contracts, not to create one. Mass default on futures contracts in OLD GOLD would IMHO attract unwanted attention to the metal market.

The Hatt.....I will repeat for all who did not read your recent post to me. It speaks a great deal....of, well...YOUR ackhuman.

Date: Wed Jan 28 1998 00:51

The Hatt ( EB SPEAKS WITH FORK TONGUE!!!!!!! ) ID#294232:

Come on be serious, it was three weeks ago that you said gold was going lower and

$300.00 was out of the question. Face it EB your investment accumen leaves

something to be desired. Rather than speaking before thinking how about trying a new

version called LEARNING!

well.....I'm not sure how to respond and I have given it much thought AND time. And I am still not sure how to respond. So I will say this.

I NEVER SAID $300 GOLD WAS OUT OF THE QUESTION. PLEASE DO NOT EVER MIS-QUOTE ME EVER AGAIN!

My 'investment' acumen is someting that you will NEVER know about, but my 'speculation' acumen is here for all to 'archive' ( good calls AND bad ) . How is that for acumen? ( and the next time you would like to post to me or use my handle in one of your posts, please check your spelling acumen ) . I have a better idea. Skip over ALL my posts and do not EVER respond to me again, please. I will respond in kind ( unless you spew more crap ) .

Face this Hatt....wake up and buy some more gold calls....way out of the money so you can get 'em cheap!!!! And you can watch them expire.......with great impecuniosity....stuff *that* ackhuman ( bless you ) down your pants! ( btw, your precious gold is not yet out of the woods, and I am prepared for it, either way....and you??? )

away

thinkingANDspeaking

god help me...most goldbugs are quite smart.....it's just those few that ya run acssrose ( whoops ) now and then...

For Chief Mozel of the tribes of the Potomac.
One can only expect so much from an insane dwarf who
stares at the sand, enshal'lah
Al'lah O akbar

Sam, thanks for helping with my question.

I also agree that confication is not likely any more. The furor would be deafening in this age of rapid communications.

Anyway, in that unlikely event, I can't help but think it would hugely depress the value ( usefulness ) of gold as a medium of exchange. Few would bother with it. Unless, of course, currency became truly worthless.

BITE ME!

Good evening. And if you will pardon me one last...

GET CAMDESUSS!!!

And silver is losing ALL it's gains from yesterday..... ( ugh ) ....in merely TWO hours.....bummer.

away...to buy the dip?



All is forgiven, but this chief is of the untamed tribe of drinking untaxed whiskey, the Moonshiner tribe, a tribe renowned for the watchful eye it casts on revenooer squawmen from the tribe on the Potomac.

which way will it breakout?? hmmmmmmmm... :-0

away...to sleep with both eyes closed.....zzzzzzz...



and I haven't posted Jake in a long time....good reading here.

http://www.trade-futures.com/reports.html

Someone who does not like what hes doing
Someone who is well informed of the inside of White House
Someone who can mobilize resources for BIG campain
( meaning..press, FBI, courts etc
Someone who knows how to stay in shadows

Blah..looks pretty similar to guys who got rid of JFK, notice SIMILAR not the same.

of the opinion the bankers have a plateful of default already. Only one thing prevents the taking of delivery by those who consume the OLD GOLD: the promise of a lower price tomorrow.

Your "Old GOLD" does not equate to my "Old GOLD".

I would refer your "OLD GOLD" to actually being "NEW GOLD".

"OLD GOLD" ran the double edged sword at Waterloo..........

"OLD GOLD" does not lose !

"NEW GOLD" will be the loser !

"NEW GOLD" = the shorts

To answer the question," who wants Clinton out?" one must ask the reverse.. who want him in ??? Who PUT him in ? Hollywood , Mafia ?, Big money entities He has been great for Wall Street. The economy is good,and, there is no real pain in the wallets of the common man..yet.
SOOOO...whom is left???

"Who" is on first base. "What" is on second base. by Abbott & Costello.

Clinton out, Clinto in, like changing the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Buy PM's & Mining Stocks.

Does Clinton then have "a" problem.

Again, he will only have "a" problem, if he has "A" problem...

for Myrmidon
I was touched deeply at your concern over the Camel
which I agree is a wondrous creature of al'lah. I eat
it rarely - the last being at a feast for my tribe. I
was host and it was expected of me, for I am a river to
my people.
My dear Shaharizade was sacrificed. She was old but
dear to me. We had endured much fighting in the desert
together and much lonely wandering in the cold desert
nights. I weep for her, but now she in part of me.
enshal'lah. I appreciate your gracious thoughts.
Al'lah O akbar

very much

Effendim
I am not worthy. The results of the avgold group
of companies have fallen into my hands. I offer it
to you as a paltry gift.
The group reduced operating losses versus the prior
quarter by 10 mill rand despite the lower gold price.
Their Capex increased so that eps for the group was
a loss of 0.129 Rand per share versus a loss of .09R
the prior quarter. 8 mill of the total loss after capex
was due to the poor performance of Lorraine whose gold
production represents 1/7 of avgold's total. Lorraine
will be closed as it should have been long ago. This
will of itself throw the group into profit. The group
also relased drilling results for the Target project
which Societe generale's frankel pollak's gold analyst
Angus Auchterlonie ( the unbeliever's name sounds
familiar did I not hear one of the dwarves speak of him )
said were encouraging.
I have some of this and will buy more, enshal'lah
Al'lah O akbar

The FTSE breaking to new highs,
The CAC a wee bit bit behind,
The DAX one day away.

The SP500 could well hit new highs tonight.
Gold down,
Silver tumbling.
Currency's tumbling, US$ up.

Looks like one more stab,
At that same old trend.

Will it be the last leg in the old leg?
And how volatile a move?

midas, au 298.50, ag 6.02 as of 5:45am est.

See what happens when you mention gold, even if it was a long time ago...
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/japan_scan_5.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/japan_scan_5.html

ABX does a poor job issuing any project updates. They could move their share price buy several dollars with a positive release from Peru.
Maybe there is some bad news in Peru

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/ftse_100_s_2.html
FTSE 100 scores new record as buyers keep coming
LONDON, Jan 28 ( Reuters ) - The FTSE 100 hit a new record high and kept on rising midmorning on Wednesday amid stock shortages and with the market still focused on bullish factors, dealers said.

The Dow is expected to open about 30 points higher barring shocks from U.S. December durable goods numbers due out at 1330 GMT.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/german_sha_1.html
German shares jump but U.S., Asia still worry
``Basically we are up on the dollar. We've been doing this for the last couple of days. There's a bit of euphoria today due to that, but although it's here, it might not last,''
``He ( Clinton ) seems to be handling things pretty well and that's taken a lot of pressure off. It's turning the positives into negatives,'' a dealer said.
``Like with Asia, it might look good now, but it's not finished. It ( the market ) is better than it has been, but it might not last,''
On the corporate side, Deutsche Bank ( DBKG.F ) , Germany's biggest commercial bank, announced earlier its operating profit would fall by about a third in fiscal 1997 because it was setting aside an additional risk provision of 1.4 billion marks to cover its exposure to the Asian financial crisis.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/japan_scan_4.html
Japan scandal saga raises questions for "Big Bang"

http://www.equis.com/free/taz/index.html
Lots of T/A information.
Lots of indicators explained.

any chance of getting the frames display of PM prices up to date?

Thanks...

As I understand Clinton was elected by the people of United States. More precisely by the people who want "more jobs created", "welfare and education improved" and so on without asking who is going to pay for it.

I am referring now to Clintons first term..

Remember, after Gulf War George Bush was probably the most popular president ever.

He run for second term, on a platform that budget deficit is to be reduced. People thought its a very good idea.

Then he said that government spending has to be reduced to achieve it. People thought it was a very bad idea and elected Clinton.

This was the only real issue in campain, the rest was circus and cabaret.

And again, i would say that the people who want him OUT are people who DO ask who has to pay for what whether in cash or otherwise.

NOW, welfare byrocrats, mutual fund managers, people who live on government subsidies voted for Clinton and did their best to convince everybody else to vote for him.

Who are the others???????
**hint** look towards 1. ) industries who suffer of system in general and very strong dollar in particular 2. ) Israel who might not like the terms of American Middle-East peace process initiative ( s ) .

********************************

The last one reminds an old Soviet joke of course:

Q: What should be done to make Soviet Union prosper?
A: I don't know ask from rabbi
Q: What can he do?
A: Nothing but later you can blame everything on jew.

********************************

However, they DO have a lot of influence, particulary in financial world, righto?

FRANKFURT ( Reuters ) - Deutsche Bank AG on

Wednesday became the first German bank to admit

the Asian crisis was causing it serious pain, warning

that its exposure to the region would cut 1997

operating profit by a third.

In addition, Germany's largest bank said it will

need to restructure its operations taking a charge of

2.5 billion marks ( $1.4 billion ) .

Deutsche said it was also setting aside 1.4 billion

marks ( $777.3 million ) to cover the risks of what it

said was a 9-billion mark exposure to South Korea,

Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia.

http://www.cnnfn.com/hotstories/companies/wires/9801/28/deutsche_wg/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/starr012898.htm

For those of you who are interested in Fidelity sector funds ( notably the gold funds ) there is an artificial intelligence stock forecasting system on the web at

http://www.duke.edu/~dhp/

which has a predictive accuracy in the 80-90% range. The system also forecasts Dow 30 stocks, major U.S. stock indices, as well as the Fidelity Sector funds. Recommends long, short, or cash position, and % change from short-term trend reversal point. The professor is also a manager of small hedge funds and runs equity accounts for some major U.S. corporate clients

International Herald Tribune,
Tuesday, January 27, 1998

China Venture Buys NatWest Asia Units
Compiled by Our Staff From Dispatches

LONDON - National Westminster Bank PLC said Monday it had
sold its Asian equities and corporate-finance activities to a joint
venture of Hong Kong and Chinese banks.

It said China's biggest bank, Industrial & Commercial Bank of
China, and Bank of East Asia had agreed to pay ''a small premium''
to the value of the company's assets, which it said was 10.3 million
$17.2 million ) Industrial & Commercial Bank of China is the largest state-owned commercial bank in China, with total assets of 3.6 trillion yuan ( $434.8 billion ) . At year-end 1997, its deposits outstanding totaled 2.154 trillion yuan and loans outstanding amounted to 1.909 trillion yuan.

http://www.iht.com/IHT/TODAY/TUE/FIN/natwest.html

The famous lawsuit has finally been filed late last night and the accusations are that a group ( Phibro ) has been trying to prop up prices artificiallty by taking Silver out of the Comex warehouses and hiding it in London.

This explains the steep drop in Silver prices overnight.

This whole thing is now being factored into the prices since a few weeks and the shorts will now need real evidence.

Article mostly about oil, silver and grains but comment about gold market and CB's is interesting. From last evening but did not see it posted here.

http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/980126/business/stories/commodities_2.html

"Threat Not Intended" :SPIEGEL interview with the Russian Minister of Defense, IgorSergeyev, about army reform and the fear of NATO expansion to the east: "We plan to reduce the army to 1.2 million troops by the end of this year. ( As they can't pay them, this is probably a fine idea...SDRer ) Even the mere announcement of enlarging NATO by
accepting three East European countries led to a consolidation of
the rightist as well as the leftist radicals. We want to win over the
Germans for a future-oriented project: to develop and later to
produce the military transport aircraft of the 21st century in
cooperation with Russia and Ukraine."

"I Would Go to Beijing"
SPIEGEL in-depth interview with Taiwan's President Lee
Teng-hui about the economic crisis in the Far East, national
identity and the tense relationship between the Republic and the
People's Republic of China: "I'm not worried. It is like influenza. If the others are sick, we also have a runny nose. Beijing, also, is subject to a downward economic trend.
.........We have one country and two political entities. ......
China will be reunited only under the preconditions of peace,
democracy and social justice."

But Taiwan is now articulating possible terms of reunification. Amazing
progress.

Someone asked about the open interest situation and what this means for the direction of the Gold market. Back before the holidays when gold went up quietly from Dec 8 thru Dec 24 to about 300 ( basis April contract ) , I posted that caution should be taken because the entire rise was on falling open interest ( short-covering ) . In addition it was on VERY LOW volume, which to me indicated that this was holiday short-covering with no serious new buying. I indicated that it looked like the entire rise would be at least retraced with the possibility of new lows.

This current rally is similar to the previous rise, in that the rise that began around Jan 12 till now is entirely on falling open interest. HOWEVER, this rise is a little different because it was on VERY HIGH volume. This indicates to me that this is not just average short covering, but some panic short covering, indicating that maybe the attitude/tone is now changing to a more bullish one. The cautionary note though is that this was still done on short-covering and although we could still see a little more to the upside, the next downturn could be back down to the previous lows. If the attitude has indeed changed, we'll probably just retrace about 75% of this recent gain ( ie. wave 2 of the current wave 1 up ) . Then on to the point where HOPEFULLY, new buyers will come in and force the shorts to cover as well, creating a massive wave 3 upward push. I have Apr 305 calls and Apr 295 puts. I'm ready for either direction. Go! Go! Go!

Its been a long time since I paid attention to short term movements like this, but I look for a reversal in the dollar today or tomorrow and another leg up in gold. Out for the day.

GCG8 $297.5 and falling
SIH8 $5.85 and falling

In the new monetary Europe, will it emerge with a soft currency. I have heard these type of speculations, and they seem to say that they will be a positive effect on the future price of gold.

Drop snapback reversal, both gold and silver moving up fast.


Coal Barron

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/markets_eu_1.html
FOCUS- FTSE at record, Eurobourses soaring
LONDON, Jan 28 ( Reuters ) - London's FTSE-100 index touched an all-time high of 5,400 points on Wednesday, soaring past its previous record, with other European bourses also showing strong gains.

The markets ignored scandals -- financial in Tokyo, sexual in Washington -- to concentrate on their own positive economic fundamentals: receding inflation fears, steady interest rate prospects and containable damage from the Asian financial crises.

Germany's DAX gained 2.7 percent, more than 115 points, in morning trade, and France's CAC-40 put on 1.66 percent, encouraged by the Dow's 102 point Tuesday gain, a firmer dollar and President Clinton's upbeat State of the Union speech.

In London, the reason for the rise past the previous FTSE record appeared to some analysts like that for climbing Everest -- because it was there. ``We seem to be ignoring everything else and just going for the good bits of news,'' said one dealer.

More signficantly, Thursday brings a statement on the state of the U.S. economy from Fed chairman Alan Greenspan, whose pronouncements rarely or never leave the markets unmoved.

Realistic:

The stakes in the silver situation are expanding to match the egos of the participants. In fairly short order I think we are going to see this thing come to fruition.

The story about the lawsuit was released last night at the time when the physical markets were least active. Because most of the Far East is on holiday there were only a few physical dealers in Australia awake at the time of the news. The market was already up about 4 cents on the back of the latest drawdown in Comex inventories. After the news was released there was some very strange action in the markets which tells the tale of the situation.

At the time of the news release, the spot market in silver was 6.18 bid with the efp running around 6-7 cents. This would put March futures around the 611 level. Instead of trying to borrow and sell physical silver in the spot market where a little bit of size could be accomodated, the seller, ( believed to be the same person playing the game on Dec30 and 31 ) swept down the access market. The March futures were sold down to 604 even as the physical market was still bid at 618. This action made the night of a friend of mine at a physical metals desk, because he was presented with a 7 cent arbitrage.

The shenanigans going on in this market are truly extraordinary. It is highly likely that the person doing the selling is part and parcel of the lawsuit. It takes a certain mentality to file a lawsuit alleging market manipulation and then blast away with sales on the access market in thin conditions.

This whole thing is going to boil down to a few points. The most important of these points is whether or not the fundamentals of silver are what they appear to be. When I speak of the fundamentals I am not talking about the last 6 months of inventory drawdown but rather the last 12 years of drawdown in worldwide stockpiles. If you believe that the market has been in deficit for this time and that stockpiles are truly dwindling then what is occuring now is not relavent. If the market is in deficit and supplies are declining, prices must move to a new level to stimulate supply and decrease demand. There is no way around it.

The lawsuit apparently avers ( I have not yet read it ) that Phibro acting either on their own or clients behalf has been hoarding physical silver and storing it in London warehouses in an attempt to 'manipulate' the price higher.

For a lawsuit such as this to be successful I believe that you would basically have to outlaw speculation. The governments of the world would have to come together and decide what was the appropriate level of one particular asset that any one person or group was allowed to own. Just what the world needs.

Getting back to the particulars of the silver market, it would seem that this chapter is going to be written before the March expiration. Given the timing of the lawsuit, it appears the shorts need an exit strategy for their March futures contracts. Their biggest fear must be that they will be forced to deliver. Since the physical silver market is tight as a drum, they may have to pay up hugely if called to deliver large quantities of silver.

The shorts are probably exquisitely aware of the charts and their implications. Given the current patterns they must make a stand at these levels or they are going to get overwhelmed. There are many large fund players that are sitting on the sidelines and just watching the game. If this short raid shows signs of weakening then the blood spoor will be evident for all to see. When the speculative community senses weakness, there is no mercy.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/swiss_mone_1.html
Swiss money managers seek bright spots in Asia

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-01/27/112l-012798-idx.html
New Circuit Breakers Approved
NEW YORK, Jan. 26
U.S. stock exchanges have agreed on a plan that would halt trading for the day if the Dow Jones industrial average plunged 20 percent -- a radical revision of circuit breakers designed to prevent a market meltdown.

Is it just me or are the PM quotes at the top of the page still out of sync?

Very interesting message D.A.

I was lucky enough last night to witness the action in Silver and I did see March Silver being at "604" for more than 2 minutes while the bid/offer were 611/614.

And yes it is the second time that Silver is attacked this way in the afterhours electronic trading, the first occured just before New Year.

This is when we must focus on the overall picture and it seems that the upside potential could become even more explosive if the current powerful shorts lose their hard fought battle. Silver is at the most important crossroads of the last decade and for traders/investors who do have time to watch closely this scenario unfolding, a lifetime opportunity may be at hand but extreme prudence and caution is needed.

Ted - Are you in Jail ---- No morning post ----Silver looks to be in trouble ----Don't have any -----Away To Work

Give me money to give to the IMF to help our Asian friends.
Give me authority to negotiate more free trade.
Give me money to help towns with closing factories due to overseas competition.

Is this guy serious? What a ridiculous set of policies. These are yours and my hard earned tax dollars. It only makes sense in the context of large Asian campaign contributions.

If the Asians are not benefiting from free trade and the American worker is not benefiting from free trade then who is Clintons master wanting free trade? Cheaper goods for the consumer which undercut American jobs? No way.

Just say no to Bill.

COL. DISNEY....domo tomotachi.



Thanks for the super news on RANGY's NAV. I suspected it was good, but not THIS good. I see Durban dropping a bit today, but so far RANGY is doing fine here.



So with a NAV of 14 rand, I come up with a U.S. $ NAV of 2.85, and it can be bought today for 1 3/4 or so. Not a sure thing, but I can't think of a better place to park the gold money.



Just back from a Chinese New Year Party here in Okinawa.....Akemashita Omedeto Gozaimasu. They had an interesting drink: awamori ( Okinawan sake ) mixed with the local equivalent of Gatoraid.......would hate to run a marathon drinking that refresher!

caught my attention as well. Clinton just seemed to be "going through the motions". His eyes looked really sad as though he were a pariah,. Also, the only applause he got was from Democrats and even that was very lukewarm., republicans just "sat on their hands". I also did not see Alan Greenspan there. I even think I heard some booing ( not sure about that and don't recall hearing that in previous S of U speeches. No enthusiasm from anyone for his call for more IMF money. To me, it almost sounded like a "farewell speech". Thought that Lott's speech was well delivered and far more substantive.

I get the feeling there is a lot of scalping going on at COMEX right now thats their job to get in the middle try and take out tight stops but makes for good action when they are all holding the same postion at the end of the day and they have to even up,I get the feeling that they know how risky it is getting ,hence the bounce,gotta love it.

D.A.: Thanks for your insight. It seems that the fellow who is suing has lost connection with reality, or has been told to do so to

Extracted from Steves News......

http://www.brw.com.au/brw12.htm

D.A.: Thanks for your insight. It seems that the fellow who is suing has lost connection with reality, or has been told to do so to 'suppress' the silver market the way gold has been suppressed. However, if I understand what you and others are saying, that is totally unrealistic, because of the long-term rend in silver, and more importantly, because someone or some group is buying up the physical metal on the international markets. I don't know if anyone has answered this -- how does this differ from the Sumitomo episode with copper? I think the LME was involved in some way with that one, and probably with the silver situation now.

for Bufford
Effendim
Munk Pasha tells people what he wants Them to know. Get used
to it sekerim - shareholders are on a need to know basis -
but it is the best NA stock eshal'lah
al'lah O akbar

Give my previous posting a flick !

Good post keep up the information PLEASE

jman: Looks like you can get some of the market pulse from the floor. Any idea who is pushing the market up and how long they will do this? To me the market is 'running on vapor', but I have misread the market so many times before. As we all know -- predicting the time for a market to fail is nearly impossible unless there is a big precipitating outside event.

themissinglink:

The policies that Clinton espouses, free trade, and aid for SE Asia are sound. You may not like the messenger but the message is just fine.

The are no good alternatives to free trade. Everything else simply creates economic distortion and inefficiency.

As for aid to SE Asia, one could argue that the IMF's plans are not the best perscription, but one would be hard pressed to argue that the best action would be inaction and economic isolation and destruction for 10% of the worlds population.

I can understand the personal dislike that Clinton engenders in many people but I am confused by the response on this forum to his economics. By most any reckoning his policies have been more economically sound than those of his recent predecessors. Some of this can be attributed to a congress which has kept him from blundering in healthcare, but he has carried the ball on trade initiatives and has been pretty good on the budgetary matters. The whole CPI game is partly of his doing and is a clever way to trim entitlement spending when it would be politically unfeasable to do it any other way.

Gold is absoloutly a hedge in times of uncertainty,which I believe were in!There it is there's the value,can't change it,maybe hide it or mask it for a while but it is the best value hedge around.There is still lots of bozos selling June calls cheap?Probably same guys that were selling puts 6 months ago.

Sharefin: Interesting post. Perhaps the floor traders et al are holding the markets up until the 20% circuit breakers are installed. Do you know if we are talking about approval only -- or actual readiness for a real-life test?

I believe that much of the consternation regarding these 'loans' is that they are going to pay the likes of Morgan, Chase, etc and in many cases bailing out corrupt and often overbearing corporations and governments. Its certainly a tangled mess. One could argue that there is no alternative but to prop it up the best we can. Some would argue that this is simply perpetuating a beast which should never have been birthed in the first place. I think you might be pragmatic about who and what you deal with, no? But some here would say that 'free trade' really is an oxymoron when applied to the current international situation.

I find it hard to rationalize shifting private risk to the public. If a situation is ripe for failure because of the weaknesses of the system and weaknesses of human nature than to perpetuate it is to STOP all of us from learning and to STOP the structure and its participants from finding a better more sustainable way of productive effort. India went through a devaluation process in the early 90's. They have since begun to incorporate gold into their banking system as a legitamate means of saving. I think they have learned from their experience and are changing their system to provide avenues to circumvent some of its weaknesses.

Do you feel that it is always a good idea to intervene in markets in order to prevent failures??? How then will we learn??? As it is American banks have been steadily pushing to be loosed from the 'restrictions' they were placed under in the 1930's. Today they have hedging and derivatives operation, develop mutual fund offerings, etc. Will we one day find that this was a fatal error AGAIN???

Your thoughts?

That statement has alot of implications....but I was refering to the US$......AFTER a ( US ) state-o-union-speech. Yuk, Yuk.

away



Yu da man, BILL!!!! GO MAN, GO!!!!

HighRise ( Jan 27, 23:14 ) said: 'What is a ''sexual relation''?
and 'Clinton is very careful to use ''sexual relation'', which according to Webster does not include BJs... Therefore he hopes that he cannot be charged with perjury...'

So, a definition here might be very significant... and, via the degree of uncertainty injected into the markets, it could affect gold.

Some phrase-searching on the web using AltaVista turned up this site:
http://qrd.rdrop.com/qrd/usa/legal/lgln/1995/11.95

Going down a bit ( oops, I meant Scrolling down! ) ---

- BEGIN QUOTE -
Tennessee Appeals Court Finds Prostitution Law Creates Due
Process Problems

...the Tennessee Court of Criminal
Appeals ruled in State v. Boyd, 1995 WL 623781 ( Oct. 25 ) , that
the lack of definition of 'sexual relations' in the statute
created an ambiguity raising due process concerns about the
instant prosecution...

During its deliberations, the jury, confused about how to proceed
under the statute, submitted a question to the court: 'Is there a
definition for sexual relations?' The court's response was: 'The
Tennessee legislature has provided no statutory definition for
sexual relations. It is your duty as jurors to define this.'

After their conviction, the defendants claimed on appeal that
there was not sufficient evidence in the record to support a
conviction and that the statute was unconstitutionally vague.

Writing for the court, Judge Welles noted the principle that 'if
an offense is not defined so as to afford persons of ordinary
intelligence fair notice of what conduct is prohibited, it
violates due process.'

- END QUOTE -

Nice upside key reversal, if it holds the day.


COAL BARRON

gold just went "green" ( on ebn ) ...liver down .09...Bart, sure wish you could fix the pm displays in the frames version....thanx

Haggis, jman: If what a physicist calls 'critical opalescence' occurs with the markets, everyone -- even the pros -- will be in for a surprise, as the rules will change in a flash.

Did you both see my post regarding the fact that CB's do not physically exchange physical gold to and fro for obvious reasons, but use gold certificates of some kind -- another form of 'paper' ( this was from my 1990 Univ. of Warwick book regarding going back to the gold standard ) . I don't know who goes around checking on the CB's to see if the gold is actually where it is supposed to be, or if the gold certificates are all valid -- and how reliable this inspectors are if they do exist. We all know that if the inspectors are not checked periodically, things can get very loose.

There is a second point - Haggis -- that I think you have addressed, and that is the EURO. Will it 'go live' firmly fixed to gold? My impression is no -- after reading the Warwick book. All that has happened so far is that Germany, France, ?Italy are hoarding gold, to support the EURO.

The currency most likely to be rigidly linked to the price of gold will be one coming out of SEAsia -- and that will be some time from now. Until the time some other currency is firmly linked to gold, the dollar will probably remain supreme -- barring some new financial catastrophe.

Hence we will not be protected from financial turmoil since there will be no gold-backed currency for some time.

Unless -- do you think I can open up a savings account at the BIS? Can I send off mail order to set up a central bank for a single user? Me? Until then some physical gold looks pretty good, doesn't it?

JTF
I don't know more than the article states.
But be it that we get another leg or not,
They may well need them.

There must be some reason why they don't want to leave them the same.
They discussed changing them a few months ago,
And after that they decided to leave them alone.
Perhaps something has changed their minds.

Heard on the CNN that if Saddam uses chemical warfare in retaliation to a stike from the US,
Then the US will be prepared to re-retaliate with a nuclear strike.

That improbable event would certainly be excessively bullish for gold.
The same with a 20% fall in equities.

Great post. The reality is that when you leave incompetant

players ( I.E. the Suharto kids & the big bankers ) in key positions , you are destined to relive the same problems. When BIG boys make

mistakes they should be allowed to fail...not propped up

to fail again and again. So much for capitalism and free

markets! However in the end, sadly, we will all pay dearly

for their incompetance.

http://biz.yahoo.com/upi/98/01/28/washington_dateline_general_news/usclinton_4.html

I don't know the price of "liver"....Where's TED!!!???

I woulda said something but I woulda got pounded by Spuds or some other hat wearing individuals. Your paragraph is worth a standing-ovation-repost.....

I can understand the personal dislike that Clinton engenders in many people but I am

confused by the response on this forum to his economics. By most any reckoning his

policies have been more economically sound than those of his recent predecessors.

Some of this can be attributed to a congress which has kept him from blundering in

healthcare, but he has carried the ball on trade initiatives and has been pretty good on

the budgetary matters. The whole CPI game is partly of his doing and is a clever way

to trim entitlement spending when it would be politically unfeasable to do it any other

way.

go bill, go...go bill, go!!! go bill, go!!! btw, Bill, tonights our monthly poke ( her ) night....what should I bring?? hahahahahaha, yu still da man!! Ammend the laws to bring him back for a third AND fourth term!!!! Yahhhoooooooo!!!!........ ( crowd is cheering ) ......hands slapping...... ( EB 'learning' more 'ACKHUMAN' ) ....... ( yuk, yuk ) .....now going to work.....

And I went long liver yesterday.... ( smile, followed by wry grin ) ...

away

searchingforsomeonions

I have been dealing with so called "Free Market Capitalists" for many years. The term is an oxymoron. These guys always mouth off about free markets but seem to find an exception about why "my business is different". In short, they are terrified of free markets. Campaign contributions are payments to be officially exempted by law. Government regulation is always appropriate for every industry except their own.

Thanks to both D.A. and Realistic for their excellent analysis of the wee hour silver market manipulations. As an owner of Hecla Mining stock, I have a lot of interest in both gold and silver spot market activity.

My gut feeling is that both are on the verge of a mind-boggling rally, and that Hecla will benefit. Thanks again.

Confused??

But has the spot price of gold risen above the Feb contract? How about over contracts. I would appreciate some help on this.

Is Bart not supporting the frames pm quotes anymore??

sharefin: The polital fallout from a nuclear strike would be worse than the event. All countries wishing to label the US as a big insensitive bully would have a field day. The next terrorist attack on the US would be likely be in kind, and we might not even know who did it.

My problem is that a major terrorist attack in the US is very likely anyway in the next 20 years or so.

What we should do instead of using the 'big guns' to punish Saddam is to use intrigue to get at the bunkers - James Bond style. But these days, noone seems to be up to that fictional standard. Unfortunately in our infinite wisdom, we let Saddam finish off most of our operatives in Iraq only about 6 months ago. It will be hard now to get support from any Kurdish resistors.

Makes that nomination of Clinton for a Nobel peace prize look like a good idea -- doesn't it. If Clinton risees to the occasion, and finds out a better way to dislodge Saddam than a tactical nuclear strike -- and really does forge world peace -- he will deserve the Nobel peace prize. But -- I challenge him to do this because I don't think he has it in him. I will take back everything I have said about him if he becomes the statesman he is intellectually capable of being -- if he can somehow reform himself into an individual of high moral character. He does not seem to want to go down in history as a great president -- only one with alot of time on his hands ( other hands? ) to get himself in trouble.

01/26/1998 $5,487,280,357,810.54
Current
Month Amount
01/23/1998 $5,485,392,047,349.04
01/22/1998 $5,481,558,068,711.56
01/21/1998 $5,501,520,207,927.51
01/20/1998 $5,495,525,658,807.45
01/16/1998 $5,492,896,688,858.39
01/15/1998 $5,491,815,670,026.21
01/14/1998 $5,488,705,496,927.68
01/13/1998 $5,486,749,552,796.75
01/12/1998 $5,481,621,078,832.40
01/09/1998 $5,480,038,744,944.38
01/08/1998 $5,479,700,204,736.38
01/07/1998 $5,484,646,071,706.36
01/06/1998 $5,486,352,648,906.21
01/05/1998 $5,481,924,290,553.50
01/02/1998 $5,476,836,236,537.09

$11 billion in 26 days. Annualized, we will have a deficit of $154 billion as extrapolated by new debt creation and not from government manipulated deficit numbers which put many things off budget.

SSC this morning... ( silver stock ) .. price about even, but bouncing around +- 1/16...now even...wonder why all the volume??

All: Looks to me on a 10day intraday graph that the sp-500 is starting to bounce off the ceiling. Wonder whats next?

Last I looked ..Silver spot at 6.11 and Feb at 6.06...

Spot price and futures price always have 10 to 30 mni.divergence?if someone was a day trader probably take advantage of this but as for me I'm in for the LONG haul!

Spot Gold and Feb Gold essentially the same...302.25

D.A. mentioned 'effeciency' which in econo-lingo means the degree of dispersal of information and its immediate incorporation into pricing decisions by ALL players. An 'effecient' market is one where no party has an information advantage which substantatively gives them a profit advantage over others in the market. Thus 'effeciency' is 'good'.

Its also a crock. To think that all information is public, that it is thoroughly transmitted-digested-acted upon by all market players is total s!!t thinking. Yesterday I posted a comment in the afternoon about 'ripping a clients face off' where in the market maker who offers the product to a client uses this knowledge to make money off of their client's exposure. Typical vulture behaviour that goes on much more than one would like to imagine. Its fact. Think about it. Those who make markets have FAR more information than you do ( period ) . Just as D.A. has far more information than I do. The sheep-public are so ill informed as to scare the WITS out of strong men.

There are words which catch my eye: free market, effeciency, etc.

D.A. I'm not trying to bash you here OK? Its just that there is more than meets the eye and it ain't pretty. You probably are an upright kind of guy. There are many, and I'm sure you've met them in your travels, who are worse than scum. Here is another kind of information which is not widely known: who are the scum-bags and who are the gems???

EB: Glad you're long silver with the rest of us. Wish I were more confident in my investing so that I might put more in -- but -- I will not go on margin. I may regret this in a few days from now -- but I am no pro at this.

My thinking on this was not in the short term, but more in the sense of say being five years out. Any consolidation affect currently, may not be viewed in the same way latter.

I heard say, that because of monetary union, German Bond Yields will increase becuase of their commitment to develop-out, what was formerly East Germany. In the other extreme Italian yields will become lower because of the more rigid guidilines of EMU. Does this not translate to a weaker ECU?

http://www.cnnfn.com/markets/wires/9801/28/silver_wg/

Great posts Mozel I'd seen some of this at another time
and place but never handled so deftly and known so thoroughly.

I also tend to side with Ms. Hughes, deferring to her
experience. She strikes me as a strong willed person.

themissinglink: Lest anyone think I'm defending slick, I'M NOT. However, the figures you posted are the national debt, not the yearly budget deficit. The deficit will be low to none because Clinton has been the beneficiary of the biggest economic boom in recent memory. Or maybe he's also "not having a sexual relationship" with whoever puts together the deficit figures.

Allen:

I am in complete agreement with you that transfering risk from the private to public sector after the fact is bad, bad policy. It's the old moral hazzard problem. I also agree that Suharto, his family and his cronies need to take a big hit, along with the banks that loaned the money. I do however feel that it is in the best interests of the all of us if something can be done so that the peoples of the countries in question are not blown away. Unfortunately this is going to mean that the bankers and politicians are also going to be helped, and probably disproportionately so.

The great appeal of a gold standard, is that it gives the economic system a real place where a risk line can be drawn. If there were a medium of exchange that was backed by physical assets, then it would be easy to classify all other money/credit as having a risk attached. In doing so, the basis for allowing credit to fail would be in place. This kind of a system unfortunately would be a very hard sell as it would obviate the need for central banks.

In some sense we already have this kind of system because people are free to convert their wealth into physical assets. Those who choose to do this forego the returns associated with the risk of being a lender but also do not have the default risk.

Because of the last five years of depleting U.S. military resources, we don't have many options, but dropping a nuke on Iraq or anywhere is a stupid idea, no matter what. Why blow up thousands ( million? ) of people who have no power or who cannot change the situation. 'Nuke'm' is the idea of a very limited mind, and as a military option, would not help.

Saddam is the problem and his power is based upon the military. The answer is to destroy the military, meaning everything that flies, floats, looks like a tank, or stands around with a rifle in his hands. At the same time, conduct airdrops of food and candy to the populace with 'made in US' printed all over it. This would be preceded by leaflet drops telling that aid was coming for Iraqis.

Bravo!! I never fail to have the hair on the back of my neck rise in salute to the grand strains of the "Declaration of INdependence".

My thinking in relation to the phrase"allMen are Created EQUAL" is this: And Colonel Colt Guaranteed it!!

Please t#1, don't throw self on bayonet!!
An old modern day Patriot of my acquaintance left me with this thought about 25 years ago: Don't go against tyranny with the idea of DYING for the Constitution or any such grandiloquent phrase.

Go forth with the firmly fixed plan to make the soldiers of the forces of Darkness die for their leaders.

The ultimate goal being of course, to give those leaders their JUST Desserts.

You have got to be the kindest and gentlest man among us. How you keep posting all angles of all stories and do it in such a way as to make everyone stop and think is truly a gift. I vote you for nobel-kitco-peace-dude. Hip-hip hoorah! ( three cheers for JTF! )

btw...I was joking. Long liver....not silver. But, I have been long silver for some time. I took profits ( capped my call ) and need a bigger move to close out and walk ( or run ) away......shoulda shorted when I had the chance ( shoulda-coulda ) . But I still see 7 dollar silver ( and liver for that matter ) as pie-in-the-sky.....and I will let the markets prove me silly...oh my. These markets can be tough on you when you try to squeeze out every dollar you can from them. They have a way of taking back what they so easily gave, no? This is why I consistently 'hedge' my 'bets'.....it takes away from big profits ( sometimes ) but it allows you to stay in the game.....and I love the game.

away!!!$!

longjohnsilver

QUOTE FROM I MCAVITY/DELIBERATIONS/TORONT.

IT S INTERESTING TO SEE THIS MOST SUCCESSFULL OF ALL THE EDGERS CHALLENGING THE CENTRAL BANKS WHO LEND OUT THEIT GOLD TO ENABLE HEDGING PROGRAMS."BARRICK HAS 10 MILLION OUNCES OUT AT $410 WHICH REPRESENTS AN OO BALANCE SHEET FUTURE CASHFLOW OF $4.1 BILLION ( WHO HAS THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT??? )
"MY REACTION TO THAT: CASH IT IN. TO REALIZE $4BILLION,YOU HAVE TO BREAK A LOT OF ROCK.LAVING IT THE GOLD IN THE GROUND FOR FUTURE PROFITS AFTER PRICES RECOVER WOULD PLEASE A LOT OF SHAREHOLDERS".

Allen:

The efficiency that I am refering to is not the efficiency associated with information perfect markets as espoused by Modern Portfolio Theory but is the simple efficiency of having resources allocated where they can produce the most product. In a world with many trade barriers, those that can produce the best product at the lowest cost are not necessarily successful. This artificially raises the cost of this product to the society. However you slice this, it is not a good thing.

Trade barriers and price supports exist to enrich entrenched entrenched. This is done to the detriment to other members of the community. The quid pro quo is that the other members engage in their own businesses which too become protected. The bottom line is that everybody loses.

As an aside, I am not a believer in the efficient market hypothesis. Since I make my living largely by systematically exploiting market inefficiencies I am living testimony to the null hypothesis.

As a further aside, I take no offense at anyone taking issue with anything that I say. That's the whole point of this place. All the things that we discuss here have many facets. Any well thought exposition is a contribution.

Avalon: And that's 100% due only to Merck stock now up 2-5/16. Otherwise it'd be a flat near zero for the Dow today. Merck is the best performing Dow component y-t-d with about a 10% gain.

JTF - what we do here is not investing. It is speculating. They are altogether different meanings for me ( but for others..... ) .

This is my ackhuman for the day.

away... for real now

grindingandselling

Italy to be admitted to the EURO group without
meeting all entry guidelines.

Italy CB was set to sell gold!

Single Currency

Italian Sauce:

Don't cook with
gold.

ITALY received a
belated warning
yesterday from the
European Union that it
would not be allowed to
"cook the books" by
using proceeds from
gold transactions to
meet the criteria for the
single currency.

A decision by Eurostat,
the EU's statistical
wing, means that Italy's
deficit will now be 0.15
per cent above what the
government in Rome
had hoped when it drew
up its final projections
for 1997. But the ruling
is unlikely to jeopardise
the country's chances of
qualifying for the single
currency in 1999.

Previous favourable
Eurostat rulings -
including a
controversial decision
last year to approve
Rome's one-off "euro
tax" on middle earning
Italians - have already
ensured that Rome is
on course for
membership of the first
wave.

Before the
announcement
yesterday, Italy had
predicted a deficit of 2.7
per cent of output for
1997 - the year on which
countries will be judged.
This is comfortably
below the 3.0 per cent
level demanded by the
Maastricht Treaty.
Even when the extra
0.15 is added it will still
have enough room for
error, barring further
unexpected rulings from
Brussels about its
accounting methods.

Such is Rome's
confidence about
making the grade for
the euro that the
Eurostat decision met
with disdain in Italy.
Andrea Monorchio, the
chief state accountant,
said the gold
transaction had been
used "correctly" to
reduce the deficit as it
followed long-standing
practice in Italian public
accounts. "The fact that
Eurostat has doubts is a
problem for Eurostat,"
he said.

The controversial
transaction concerned
the sale of gold by the
Italian state agency
Ufficio Italiano Cambi
to the Italian central
bank, Banca d'Italia.
UIC was obliged to pay
a profits tax of about
3,685 billion lire ( 1.27
billion ) which Italy had
argued should be
treated as normal fiscal
revenue.

But Eurostat
maintained that because
the transaction took
place between two state
bodies, the receipts
could not be counted as
normal government
income to reduce the
public deficit.

In Brussels, the new
tough approach by
Eurostat was treated
with cynicism, coming
as it does after other
decisions in favour of
questionable
manoeuvres by member
states and at a time
when Italian entry is no
longer seriously in
doubt.

It was viewed as an
attempt to demonstrate
to politicians in
Germany and the
Netherlands, who fear
the euro will be dragged
down in value if
indebted Italy joins, that
the entry tests are
being properly policed.

Italy still has one hurdle
to clear. At the start of
next month, a team
from Eurostat will visit
the country to inspect
the accounts and ensure
that there have been no
further fiddles. The
European Commission
will then publish its
recommendations on
which countries have
met the Maastricht
criteria at the end of
March.

This will be used by EU
heads of government as
the basis for deciding
which countries are
ready to adopt the euro
on Jan 1, 1999.

London Telegraph, Jan.
28, 1998

"The policies that Clinton espouses, free trade, and aid for SE Asia are sound. You may not like the messenger but the message is just fine.

The are no good alternatives to free trade. Everything else simply creates economic distortion and inefficiency."

The point I was trying to make which your response overlooked is his comments last night that he wants funding for towns which have factories closed due to overseas competition. This is not FREE trade if we have to socialize the risks. Globalization creates economic distortions in our economy. Our standard of living is higher than most Asian countries. By globalizing, we lower our standard of living to raise theirs. This is done through downward wage and profit margin pressure.

Globalization creates dislocations in economic policies. While Asia was going on a binge with economic and monetary policy we took a more studied and cautious approach. We are paying the price because their currency devaluations put our manufacturers at a competitive disadvantage. Their poor banking practices threaten the international banking system which the american worker must now bail out through the IMF.

There never was free trade, only the opening up of America to cheap imports. Every other country protects their domestic economies from our exports.

We need to understand that free trade equals cheap imports only due to our high standard of living and sound economic practices ( relatively speaking ) . The price we pay for free trade is the equalization of global standards of living. Our standard of living will go down and those cheap imports will get more expensive as those Asian workers head towards our average wage. We will meet in the middle. Is this the best thing for capitalist society in the long run?

No, we should strive to maximize our standard of living of which import prices are only one part. Real wages of American workers are EQUALLY important and are certainly not maximized by the combination of globalization and U.S. government bailout of displaced American workers.

Read this morning that as of 12/97, average baby boomer savings & pension holdings about $60,000 total. Baby boomers ( of which I am one ) make largest demographic group in U.S. With these measly "savings" ( didn't address debt outstanding ) , there is no way the PPT won't throw everything at the equities markets for as long as they can, including Social Security incoming money. Forget the gold standard; will never be allowed ( barring catastrophic, systemic collapse generated by Asia ) . Just keep pushing that debt into the future, baby.....reflation is where it's at for now, if it can be pulled off.

larry,
The nukes the US would "drop" on Iraq would be earth-penetrating, low-yield weapons. About all you would see is a slump-crater on the surface: no mushroom cloud - little to no radiation. Use would be justified as "the only way to destroy deadly stockpiles of germ warfare agents" in deep underground bunkers.

However, there are other options:

There is apparently a new class of explosive/weapon called "ballotechnics" - that have explosive yield between chemical explosive and nuclear explosives. Who knows what they are - I've heard everything from buckyballs to irradiated mercury-antimony oxide. Could just be disinformation BS.

Next choice would be high-power EMP pulse weapons that just fry the hell out of Iraq electronics. Simple & cheap weapon that only kills machines - not people. Well, I guess if you had a pacemaker...

Third choice would be GPS-guided steel slugs de-orbited from 150 miles up. It's like having small asteroids hit your country - would send shock waves into deep underground bunkers and shatter them. Space shuttle takes 'em up into orbit, dumps them out, and they wait for the target coordinates and a deorbit burn. Best of all, they're "clean". Ahem, didn't we just launch a shuttle mission?

Spud, saying "nice doggey, doggey..."

Saddam is a bad guy, and the U.S. is a good guy.

All other guys in the Middle East are in need of

a good guy to protect them from the bad guy. Of

course, this need for protection makes good guy

to look like VERY IMPORTANT guy in the eys of other guys.

If bad guy is gone, then good guy is no more so

VERY IMPORTANT for the other guys.

Good guy really needs bad guy to look like VERY IMPORTANT

guy for the other guys. But Bad guy knows the game of

a good guy and knows that he, bad guy, is untouchable....

And so..the WHOLE WORLD should see

THE GREAT SHOW of their ENDLESS FIGHT...

Thanks for your replies.

Why do you think the amount of annual new debt does not equal the annual budget deficit?

Change accounting definitions all you want but the debt represents the difference between government dollar outlays and government dollar revenue.

D.A., Allen: I just have to say I am enjoying your discussion with respect to the asian bailout... The issues and dillemas are very clearly illustrated. At the end of the day it may well be that the real issue here is whether the political and economic systems that got the tigers into the spot they are now in can be reformed WITHOUT "blowing away 10% of the worlds population" ( economically of course ) . You are talking about a lot of very entrenched, tough, stubborn power groups here...

GFD:

I think that you are right on the mark. This is why the negotiations are tough sledding. The boys at the top do not want to see their little empires dismantled. Its a way of life.

I'm not sure anyone has already poosted this????? For what it's worth.......Wednesday January 28, 10:51 am Eastern Time

Phibro ( TRV.N ) named as defendant in silver case

NEW YORK, Jan 28 ( Reuters ) - New York law firm Lovell & Stewart filed suit in federal

court in New York late Tuesday against Phibro Inc and Phibro Energy Clearing Inc, units of the

Travellers Group ( TRV - news ) , alleging manipulation of the silver market, the law firm

confirmed Wednesday.

The suit, filed in U.S. District Court in Southern District of New York, under the Commodities

Exchange Act, alleges Phibro forced up silver prices artificially in late 1997.

The class action suit was filed on behalf of Kerry Seale and his privately held company, Golden

Harvest Co, based in British Columbia, Canada, but the suit provides for more plaintiffs to be

added to the complaint.

The suit alleges that Phibro with the help of other parties, including Republic National Bank of

New York, bought or removed silver from the warehouses of COMEX, a division of the New

York Mercantile Exchange and moved the silver to bank vaults in London to give the

appearance of a fall in silver supplies and force up silver prices.

The suit claims that ``Phibro and/or other defendants, acting for their own accounts and/or other

persons ( including hedge funds or commodity funds ) have participated in, or aided, the buying

and removal from registration of supplies of silver at COMEX.''

COMEX warehouse silver inventories fell steadily last year to a 12 year low around 109

million ounces from 203,450,783 ounces at the start of 1997. COMEX silver inventories have

since fallen further to 103,996,120 ounces as of Tuesday.

Defendants acting for their own accounts or the accounts of other persons ``caused formely

COMEX silver to be moved from COMEX storage, including some from Republic National

Bank of New York to London, England,'' the suit said.

The suit alleges that the activity by Phibro was carried out with the assistance of Republic

National Bank of New York and claims that the commodity trader J. Aron & Co Inc and ``other

persons'' made enquiries in Europe about resmelting COMEX silver bars in order to make them

more acceptable for storage at the vaults of banks which are members of the London Bullion

Market Association.

J. Aron & Co Inc is the commodity trading arm of investment bank, Goldman Sachs.

The suit notes that, in contrast to COMEX silver inventories, silver supplies in London held by

members of the London Bullion Market Association, are not publicly reported on a daily,

weekly or monthly basis, and are not part of the world's visible silver supply.

The suit said that by participating in the buying or removal of the registered silver from visible

COMEX silver supplies and by shipping such silver to non-reporting locations in England

( including the vaults of J.P. Morgan ( JPM - news ) and Credit Suisse ) , the defendants caused the

world's visible inventories of silver to decrease dramatically.

The lawsuit said that ``the motives of defendants in tacitly or explicitly joining together with one

another for their foregoing manipulative acts have been to engage in the self-fulfilling prophecy

of forcing up silver futures and other silver prices, thereby creating profits on their large silver

positions.''

The claim says that the defendants manipulation of the silver market was ``so effective that,

while COMEX gold futures prices plummeted to their lowest point in 10 years, the defendants

forced up COMEX silver futures prices to their highest point in almost nine years.''

The suit claimed that the movement of COMEX gold and silver prices in opposite directions

was ``unprecedented.''

missinglink:

On a cash basis the goverment deficit numbers are true. They are the actual difference between income and outlay. The debt includes psuedo bonds issued to the trust funds. Go to the treasury department web site and see.

$60,000 in savings and retirement funds vs $??? in mortgage and credit card debt. Pathetic really. We spend most if not all of what we make and then some. Its hard attitude/perspective to break. Most will not be 'retiring' when they think they will, especially if the equities tank in a big way.

what I heard was his desperate attempt to "bribe" several
groups with sugar-candy:

1 ) AARP'ers with magic Social Security bribes,
2 ) Baby Boomer mothers with magic "education" money,
3 ) Pseudo-conservatives with quack-speak talk of a "budget surplus"
which anyone who can read the US Treasury "Debt to the Penny"
page knows is a total lie.

I thought he came across as a consumate confindence man.

Hillary, meanwhile, continues to peddle "right-wing conspiracy" theories on the morning soap-operas that pass for news shows in these troubled times.

What next Hillary? Alien abduction? Area-51 republican secret weapons? And I thought only loonies believed in cabals & conspiracies...

( Meanwhile, on this week's episode of "The X-Files", agents Sculley and Mulder confront the possiblity of alien sex-acts affecting high Whitehouse officials... )

I really must consider myself an investor -- not a speculator. So far my speculations have not been stellar. I am learning by watching those much more experienced than I -- such as you.

Of course -- investing these days is more like speculation anyway, unless all of ones assets are in physical gold.

I bet you are a fast thinker and talker -- am I right?

Thanks again!.

Good post on the Silver suit. I see Merril Lynch et al have now fired round two...only as I predicted, it ain't workin! Silver isn't making a preciptous drop as it should on such news, and now they have no ammo left......Gooooo Silver! A little down blip for a day or three and then back to the climb....$7.00 just around the corner with $8.00 not far behind in 1998.

A short time ago someone posted a series of charts of the POG in several Asian currencies. Can someone please re-post? TIA

The pricing of gold is taking on epic proportions.The seesaw battle
between the Euros and the Dollar is major.I think gold by the
end of the day has to bite its time for another round.

Why does anyone want Saddam dead? Militarily, hes currently castrated, except for a few weapons of mass destruction. If anyone comes close to killing him, hell certainly unleash them. Does anyone want to be responsible for that?

Its better to just leave him alone. An insignificant leader with no real influence on anyone. Just like Fidel Castro for the past 30+ years. Who knows? In the year 2034, maybe the Pope can visit Saddam in Iraq!

Scully and Mulder;. they're the only real heroes left in my book ! Sunday night between 8 and 9 pm CST is "church night" in my house.

Not true, there is another great American hero in the making. Tune in to King of the Hill and see Bobby, God's gift from Texas.

highly recommend paper trading futures until you are making money at it before you put any cash into ,if risk bothers you or you are not confident you will get chewed up.There is 2 parts to speclating,first planing and preparation and then the actual doing it.I'm quite sure very few people are instantly big money makers so it takes a commiment for the long haul,learning risk contol etc.Lots of brokers will set you up with fake account.Anyway I'm getting a little long winded,but give it a shot it is not rocket sciencee.

Please note the XAU action. I believe that the xau can no longer be used to measure the future direction of bullion. The hedgers are in a very negative situation which has already been demostrated by PGU ( heavy hedger ) and others ( TVX... ) .

HM is not big into hedging. Companies that have resisted hedging now are standing on solid footing as gold goes into a BULL mode. As you select you purchases I suggest that you review hedging programs before you invest in a company, large or small.

Has the XAU been modified as regards PGU??? Is it still part of XAU, has it been replaced,... ??? It seems quite silly if it is still used in the calculations.

Charles Keeling: Interesting post about Italy. What F Veneroso said about the EURO was that the 'little guys' would have no say on future sales of gold, so they were selling off their gold to balance the books. Makes sense. Now, France and Germany the countries who will have control over maintaining the stability of the EURO are getting nervous, and have told Italy not to pull the same antics as Belgium and the Netherlands.

All of this makes sense -- doesn't it? The european central banks really weren't all that successful in working together, and the little ones probably precipiated most of the gold bear for the last 1 1/2 years by concluding that their gold was no longer of any value. And -- the big CB's added fuel to the fire by apparently selfishly claiming that they would control the EURO purchase and sale of gold.

As a very experienced Kitcoite said some time ago ( not me ) you don't need to think about international conspiracies most of the time, because most of the time the relevant countries of the world can't work together long enough to pull it off!

So -- our fledgling gold bull survives again! As far as I am concerned, the fundamentals are in -- just waiting for the gold bears to realize that the gold bear is over!

Indeed! That's the big problem. When we romp around the world expecting that other people hold the same values and standards that we do ( and as a fact they do not ) then WE are the ones who will take it in the shorts, not them. Why? Because their 'powers' will protect them and we can't do much of anything about that.

A day or so ago someone posted a note about the company that tubed Peregrine, a Cab company in Indonesia ( defaulted on a US$365 Mln loan ) . They compared the stripped former offices of Peregrine with the still quite functional and prosperous Cab company offices. Their point: its the creditors who will bite this bullet and not the debtors ( in Asia ) . There is no collateral for these loans; if the collateral is the company physical assets or the company shares then you basicly have given them a loan completely naked of any protection whatsoever. This lesson will not be lost upon many. My sense is that extreme caution will replace the extreme greed which motivated such foolish financial speculation ( hence a tightening of liquidity from foreign banks. It is speculation pure and simple.

This is a very complex situation. The large, 'hard currency' nations pretty much dominate the trade of the smaller, 'soft currency' nations via FOREX and other capital flows ( though now it appears there is 10x as much money racing around in commodities-like trading of things like currencies and bonds as compared to trade related flows ) . This is not necessarily overt attempts at oppression just a fact of the present relationships in this situation. If a nation were to embrace gold as a means of 'keeping the system honest' then I really believe that nation would eventually prosper. People would learn. India and, possibly, China are on that path. Maybe even a few M.E. oil states.

As you have said D.A., there already is a use of gold in this way. But it is not overtly recognized as a worldwide vehicle of finacial prudence. Gold has been beaten down in the US to the point where most people only see it when it is brought out for public flogging as a fool's speculation. But perhaps this attitude is changing. Apparently the up surge in American Eagle sales ( and Philharmonics in Europe ) signals a change in perception/attitude on the part of smart money. I just love it when I hear a little jingle in a portfolio, don't you???!

1. Indonesioan debt plan leaves bankers skeptical, Page A12.
2.Japanese Finance Minister steps down. Page A14.
3. Japanese auto makers shift strategies to keep plats viable in S.E. Asia
Page A14.
4. Falling prices pose broad threat to Japan's economy. Page A15.
5. Op-ed piece by Holman Jenkins; "Once more, you get what you pay for" on Page A19, re Clinton, campaign finance.

his percieved threat keeps Oil producers in check and subservient to Uncle Sam and justifies deploying 30,000+ Soldiers, 300+ Planes in that area for US Interests ( OIl and Israel ) . Nobody cares for the innocent citizens of both USA and Iraq in this tussle

I will assume you are right about these pseudo bonds for the trust funds but why is that not seen as defecit by you and Yellowjacket? The congress passes legislation to fund the trust funds. Instead of using surplus tax dollars as envisioned they issue more debt paper. These trust funds will eventually need to be used to pay out benefits. The obligation is real yet once again the will of the people to fund the social programs is thwarted by papering over the problem. The deficit is today but accounting wise is deferred to tommorrow.

Your explanation is appreciated but only underscores the dishonesty of our government accounting practices.

House ( Ex-Employers ) continuously as per Visitor Log's after moving from that job, Do Employees regularly visit their prvious places of Work

Year2000 - NO ONE wants Saddam dead - he's too handy to use as an excuse for the American army of occupation in Saudi Arabia. Keep 'em scared. Keep oil in control.

Why else did we stop in Desert Storm and let this blood thug murder of women & children live? Why else did we let the northern Iraq Kurds and the southern Marsh Arabs be butchered by him? Oh yea, our American politicans & diplomats - real men. Me heap proud American.

Now, our veracity-challenged President can scarcely wait to deflect public attention with an attack on Iraq. He's probably badgering the US generals: "Can we bomb them now? Huh? Can we, can we, can we??". What a sorry, sick sight that must be: soldiers sworn to uphold the U.S. Constitution, having to take orders from a degenerate.

I ask the question again: Who amoung us would send their 18 year old daughter to be an intern in the White House?

Avalon - Forget Sculley & Mulder - "Cancer Man" is my hero ( grin ) .

This policy of using SSA and other trust fund surpluses to buy IOU's from the Federal Govmnt was enunciated and begun under Reagan, a true American. True in this sense; no one complained. This fiscal idiocy was publicly acknowledged and NO ONE bitched about it, DEM or REPUB. Its not as if AARP stood up and said 'NO DICE'. As a nation we are just about sunk. You can tell in our politics and fiscal imbecility, as well as our popular "culture". Bread and Circus. We will reap the whirlwind for these very base and irresponsible lives that we, as a nation, have lived.

US, South Korean officials still divided in debt talks


NEW YORK, Jan 27 ( AFP ) - South Korean officials and global
bankers will try again Wednesday to reach agreement on restructuring
billions of dollars in short-term South Korean debt, a goal that has
eluded them for a week.
Asked if at least a draft accord had been reached, one banker
said: "We're not there yet."
The talks here focus on 20 to 25 billion dollars in debt owed by
South Korean financial institutions that falls due by the end of the
year. Total short-term institutional debt is 37.4 billion dollars.
The exact amount of the debt to be renegotiated will depend on
an extension of South Korean government guarantees beyond the
current maximum limit of 20 billion dollars.
Raising the limit would require approval from the South Korean
national assembly.
"You never get 100 percent of anything," said the banker, who
suggested that the 20-billion dollar limit could determine the
amount of the restructured debt.
But he warned that if substantially less than 20 billion dollars
in debt were covered by an agreement, market sentiment would not be
strengthened.
The banks represented here are Chase Manhattan, Citibank, J.P.
Morgan, and Merrill Lynch of the United States, Banca Commerciale
Italiana ( Italy ) , Bank of Nova Scotia ( Canada ) , Bank of
Tokyo-Mitsubishi ( Japan ) , Deutsche Bank ( Germany ) , HSBC Holdings
( Britain ) , ING Bank ( The Netherlands ) , National Australia Bank,
Societe des Banques Suisses ( Switzerland ) , Societe Generale,
( France ) and the Development Bank of Singapore.

Beware the wrath of a silver shorter burned! ( and if they're pissed off, wait until you see the reaction of the gold shorters in about one month! )

There is a silver short in British Columbia who is very upset. He thought he was very shrewd in shorting the silver ore because after all, silver is supposed to move synchronously with gold in the same direction.

Unfortunately, he forgot that silver is not CB manipulated the way gold is. He also forgot that there has been a consistent drawdown in silver stocks for approximately 15 years far outstripping the provision of new supply.

Now, he is embarrassed because he feels he is the very embodiment of the American caricature of the "dumb Canuck." Moreover, his wallet is significantly lighter now.

Now, he is accusing major respected trading houses with manipulation that is so cumbersome and unwieldy as to be essentially beyond all belief.

He would be much more astute if he saved himself the legal fees and invested them in a long position in silver ( on its way to $9.00 an ounce or better by year end ) !

one time gains boosted Citicorp's net earnings. According to the writer, one time gains contributed $733 million ( 44% ) of their quarterly income.
Cannot post whole article, but Citi's core earnings fell.

Looks like a lot of people bought low on the open sold at lunch and went golfing or maybe skiing?

Fresh and exhilarated from conning the American public in his STATE OF THE INTERCOURSE, the Prez paid a visit to the University of Illinois today. There, he met with the student body to prepare a new search for "talent."

Apparently, the Prez heard through the grapevine that UofIllinois freshwomen have some of the "purtiest, sweetest, juiciest gums in America." The Prez is reported to have requested several private meetings with notable UofILLINOIS freshwomen to explore building new "liasons to the 21st century."

The Prez seemed optimistic that he would find a suitable replacement or two for Lewinsky who is now sequestered by her attorney and unable to pleasure BC in the manner he is accustomed.

According to Presidential sources, the new student recruit must be able to handle the "whole load" of responsiblity at the Oral Office. In the event she makes mistakes in executing her White House chores, she must be able to "swallow pride" and adapt to "awkward positions" in order to better serve her President.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/138134.asp

Gee, Fellas, sorry to barge into your discussion on Sculley and Printon and sailors or seamen, but I've been looking high ( G'day Ted ) , and Lo!, ( G'day Auric ) for these durned charts of the POG in several Asian currencies that were posted a couple of weeks ago. Can someone please re-post? TIA

jman: It wasn't until I started lurking on Kitco that I learned about the paper trading sccounts with fake money. I do need to do that -- have used 'funny money' to date.
By the way -- I'm beginning to think that the 'real' paper money is funny money too!

naive folks. USA has supported thugs a plenty. They only become Rogue Nations and terrorists when they dont toe the line

Effendim - while there I practiced mathmatical games

and assessed the royal oak venture while playing backgammon

with a brother from the desert. I offer my pitiful

findings.

I see reserves - 0.7 milloz at colomac and giant, 4 mill

oz at parmour and another 4 mill aT Kemess ( plus

considerable copper which I will ignore ) = call it 9 mill

oz of gold reserves. Its 9 month results as of sept 1997

were minus 0.45$ canadian.or say -0.30$US/sh on a production

of .284 mill oz. There are 139 million shares. Each

share represents 9/139 = 0.06 oz of gold per share

( little gold much paper ) .

Thus They lost ( 0.3$*139milshares ) / ( .284miloz ) = 146$/oz

( I can hardly believe this disaster my brothers it is

Satan's work ) .

Over that period I would assess the average gold

price at 340$ per oz thus by simple logic their average

cost per oz of gold would have been in the order of 146

plus 340 = $486/oz US.

Add to this the fact their reserves per share are

trivial and Al'lah must intervene directly to make

profits from this mine. Perhaps the shareholders

await his coming as well they should, enshal'lah.

They must be TRUE believers.

Al'lah O akbar

As long as my homebrew supplier takes it I'm a happy camper

Can someone read todays news from TVX and comment on it and the company.

avalon: Your URL goes nowhere

connect, then I tried it a second time and it DID connect. Try it again.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/138134.asp

hope the connection works this time. Can someone else please check it ?

If it looks like a bottom, there is no room for personal emotions and/or opinions.

The grains have been grinding higher since their lows of January 12th!

Soybeans...... + 24 cents/bushel or +3.6%!
Wheat......... + 22 cents/bushel or +6.8%!!
Corn.......... + 20 cents/bushel or +7.7%!!!

Traders/investors who got on board of the recommended "LAST CALL ALLABOARD" January 12th southbound train are sitting on losses today. With the "weather risks" season not even started, it's not a comfortable train.

Date: Tue Jan 13 1998 08:58
Realistic ( Grains ) ID#410194:
Some SEASONAL LOWS at hand in the entire grain complex this week?

OR

Date: Mon Jan 12 1998 14:05
cherokee__A ( @- - - - last- call- - - - - - - - - - ) ID#344308:

the usda is going to release their weekly export numbers
for the grains tomorrow......they are predicting sharp
drops in beans......and less severe drops in corn and
wheat.......still very bearish for the grains...........
last day to get these cheap put options..........

the grain train is heading south.........ALLABOARD! last call......

beans going to 550 imnsho........5750 may soybean puts are $75.00!!!!
230 may corn puts.....cheap.....

Intra-Day Charts display an impressive turn-around:
Gold UP 2.40 - up SIX BUCKS FROM DAY'S LOW
Silver - although still down a couple of pennies, it's 18 cents from LOW
XAU UP 0.20 - well-off day's low

SOooooooo is the pm quote correct?

304.40 +3.95 at 14:27

I certainly hope so, but?

Avalon: Still no go. Fortunately it is not earth shaking news.

Avalon: Second one works.

GOLD FUTURES UP $4.30 TO 305 - Up 8 bucks from day's low

The speech must not have gone over well in the financial sector.

When we approach the $320, the bull will really gain steam when mines unravel the forward selling forced by the banks!

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/japan_scan_6.html

Thank you. Nice to see your latest posts.

TTFN

......AKA Debtors vs. Creditors, the New Paradigm...

Was a fairly feeble attempt to get us all to walk the circle. It is all too easy to scour the WESTERN world for news and accept those threads as the only appropriate weaving material. However, the most attractive/useful weavings have multi-colored patterns, and we need to be rigorous in our determination to WALK THE CIRCLE.

Let me share with you how it looks through eyes NOT round:

...the end of the cold war overturned the prevailing European order, in which Europe was divided into two camps by the EMPIRES OF THE UNITED STATES ( caps SDRers ) and the Soviet Union ( the so-called Yalta system ) , making imperative the establishment of a new order based upon CHANGED POWER RELATIONSHIPS. Noda Nobuo, A New Chinese Empire?

... Quite a few whites probably think that the modern civilization born in Europe is still alive and well. This is a matter of individual historical judgment. BUT IN MY VIEW THIS CIVILIZATION, IF NOT ALREADY OVER, IS CLEARLY APPROACHING ITS END.
Ishihara Shintaro, Learning to say No to America

In addition, we need to constantly, rigorously, remind ourselves that the notion of a German bank, American bank is outdated. Look at any tombstone announcing a new bond issue: routinely, always, ever there is a lead bank and more than a few other underwriters. Every big loan, in whatever currency, is a community experience, they have ALL be eager for a piece of the action. And they got it. {:- )

Not all technology is on the bright and shining path, however. Digital photography needs to be improved, and the printing and communications technology required to support digital photography still needs to be developed. This could take another five years, Gates said.
Then we have a huge group that just want, or can only afford to use Cameras, IMHO.
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,18549,00.html

JANUARY 28, 1998

Royal Oak Draws Funds from Senior Secured Financing

KIRKLAND, WASHINGTON--Royal Oak Mines Inc. ( TSE and AMEX: RYO ) announced today that it has drawn down
funds from the previously-announced US$44 million senior secured financing. Last week, the Company received consents
acceptable to the senior lenders from a majority of the aggregate amount of its Senior Subordinate Note holders. Margaret
Witte, President and Chief Executive Officer of Royal Oak, said: "We sincerely appreciate the continuing support of our Senior
Subordinate Note holders, and their consent to the latest financing will enable us to complete construction and start-up of our
Kemess gold-copper mine in April of this year."

"We also acknowledge the financial support of the government of British Columbia during the construction phase of the
Kemess Mine. We have recently received the final payment of C$17.6 million from the government for this phase of the
project. The government will be providing a further C$12 million over 12 years when the mine is operating," Margaret Witte
added.

Margaret Witte concluded: "We are excited that we are now so close to the opening of Kemess, our core asset that will be the
springboard for the future growth of Royal Oak. We look forward to an improvement in gold and copper prices, and to a
revaluation of the Company in the capital markets that will reward our supportive shareholders and bond holders."

Royal Oak Mines is listed on the American and Toronto Stock Exchanges - Symbol RYO.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION PLEASE CONTACT:

Royal Oak Mines Inc. Mr. J. Graham Eacott or Mr. Nick Volk ( 425 ) 822-8992 ( 425 ) 822-3552 ( FAX ) Internet Site:
http:\\www.royal-oak-mines.com Kirkland, Washington or David Williamson Associates Limited Mr. David Williamson
International Investor Relations 011-44-171-628-3989 011-44-171-920-0563 ( FAX ) London, England

REUTERS

rolling over shorties on the way out

Fidelity Funds not moving up much with the spot price. Any reason for this?

See Previous Post.

Nice day for gold, not as nice as it should be for stocks. Someone tell those investors that higher gold prices mean more income for gold mining companies.

The mrach to $400 is underway.

FDPMX up but restrained by Morgan Stanley downgrade of Prime Resources Group, also by drops today in Euro-Nevada and Franco-Nevada. Should be up 1.2 - 1.5% for the day if things hold.

at the campus of the University of Illinois today. Virtually every word full of meaning and each syllable delivered with apparent conviction. Regardless what we think, most students and faculty walked away motivated and feeling greater importance in their roles, today and in the future. Is this good? Even if these hollow words are delivered by a talker...not a "do as I do" leader.
It does make you think...Gore????....at least we have a qualified communicator... I am like you...wishing he didn't lie so damn much and that he wasn't a sex maniac. He is so gifted...but cut with such obvious flaws. How 'bout last night's social security riff delivered to us High-waisted, High-moraled ( lower sex drive ) baby boomers and older folks...WOW! was that a brilliant strategy!...whether it worked for you or not...he is very good at this talking thing. He did it to those kids at Champagne/Urbana today.

How do you get intraday pricing on Fidelity funds??

By the way, my last post probably explains most of why FSAGX is lagging bullion today, since the three companies I mentioned are in the FSAGX top ten as of 12/31/97.

As ye lust for the Golden Calf

Greed turns to Panic

Panic turns to Greed

a.j.: General George S. Patton, Jr put it this way: "No one ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor son-of-a-bitch die for his county!"

APH: Did we see A and B of an ABC correction today? If C is to follow it looks like it will take us back to about 5.80 and I plan on getting aboard at that point. Any opinion?

BUT

My inability to sign-on to the Clinton 'He's making the trains
run on time" admiration group, was formed when he began his run for the office. Admiring press releases that he had wanted nothing else
in life but to be President of the United States.

My inability to sign-on to the Clinton 'He's making the trains
run on time" admiration group, was formed when he began his run for the office. Admiring press releases that he had wanted nothing more--
or less--in life than to be President of the United States.

That may be a suitable curriculum vitae for Alexander the Great or Attila the Hun, but not, one would think, for POTUS. I want someone who comes only reluctantly to the Oval Office.... ( I admit to a streak--or two--
of insanity. {:- )

A bit o' exponential ascension curve from 12:30 to close. Rocket Scientists, we need your help: what trajectory to this booster? Time to flame out???

realistic@1428------

losses of 7%+ on options???? har---har-----har------

there is NO LOSS on ANY OPTION until it
expires worth-less, or it is sold
for less than purchased.................

these out of the money options----$75. or less......
are damned near worth-less at their purchase!
there is NO RISK OR LOSS except for the premium
and brokers fee....if it goes to bench...$10.... wwooooooooooooo
huge loss......totally un-acceptable.......risk-factor too high?
the ticket is just as viable today as it was 4 weeks ago....
90 days left........and i've got tickets to ride.................

damned near short-circuited my risk tolerance factor......

contrarism-------the most profitable way to play options........
the grain options i have----

may 5750 soybean puts....paid $70-$80.......2
may 260 corn puts.......paid $80-$110......2

less than $500. total.....


IN ORDER TO HIT A HOME-RUN......YOU MUST STEP-UP TO THE PLATE......

realistic--------do you play the penny slots when you go to las vegas?
naw-------you go to circus-circus and ride the kiddie rides.......

high risk sh!t!... what are the potential returns WHEN the currency
crisis rears to its' full height? only the ripples have been seen...
who is going to buy the grains? whose curriencies can afford our
commodities? their companies ( asian ) are collapsing faster than they
can make copy.........

is it a sure thing?
no....
nothing is..........
is it a viable place to speculate with residual cash?
hell yes............
stratsoy is predicting soybean prices @610 for this years bottom....???
are you available to counsel them????

to win big with options......go against the grain[sic]........be the
one sitting alone at some weird strike........one day.....chaos and flux.
one good options play will fund 20yrs worth of options speculation
@5k per year........

here are my other options-------shoot holes in them.......and we'll
let father time--option killer--tell the tale........

june 30yr-bond 112-00 puts..........3
all months gold calls 400-360 strikes.........18......1800oz.......
one would be enough to buy your smelly hide.......naw...1oz of silver..
and get some change back......!; ) ----mnc------your new acronym--mnc

REALISTIC---------
btw......what are some of your investments? c'mon mouth....let's
hear some of you calls.......

ever heard of suckers rallies? .........techno-historians know them all
too well......

again-------buy gold------time is short.....shoot at that.........chicken-choker-------aaawwwwwkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk------

cherokee!;----patiently-waiting---90-days-and-counting-for-the-truth---

between debtors and creditors. I consider myself a moral person ( okay everybody stop laughing ) but you know what ? If some banker came to me and said he would lend me $50 million and I could declare bankruptcy and not pay it back, I just might be tempted; ( but only after he twisted my arm and increased his offer to $100 million ) .

Seriously, this is like the unsolicited credit cards in the US, I don't think these debtors are completely stupid; it's the bankers who are chasing them !

missinglink & NightWriter -

There are a number of factors while the FSAGX price is not immediately responsive to the gold spot price. One suggested in NightWriter's comment earlier. However, the most cardinal factor delaying today's response was possibly one of two reasons, or both. Firstly, the gold move today was initiated AROUND 2PM. And as you well know FSAGX determines its NAV hourly, on the hour... so when gold +4.00, the fund price was nearly an hour old. Secondly, when there is a dramatic and sudden bullion move - either up or down - many stocks in Fidelity's portfolio are slow to estalish a recent price. Therefore, Fidelity management will delay giving the new NAV until they can determine a reliable and timely price of all stocks in the portfolio.

At the time of posting your question FSAGx was showing a price 15.78, +0.04. But the 3PM quote was 15.90, + 0.16, relecting in part the jump in bullion prices.

realistic@1428------

losses of 7%+ on options???? har---har-----har------

there is NO LOSS on ANY OPTION until it
expires worth-less, or it is sold
for less than purchased.................

these out of the money options----$75. or less......
are damned near worth-less at their purchase!
there is NO RISK OR LOSS except for the premium
and brokers fee....if it goes to bench...$10.... wwooooooooooooo
huge loss......totally un-acceptable.......risk-factor too high?
the ticket is just as viable today as it was 4 weeks ago....
90 days left........and i've got tickets to ride.................

damned near short-circuited my risk tolerance factor......

contrarism-------the most profitable way to play options........
the grain options i have----

may 5750 soybean puts....paid $70-$80.......2
may 260 corn puts.......paid $80-$110......2

less than $500. total.....


IN ORDER TO HIT A HOME-RUN......YOU MUST STEP-UP TO THE PLATE......

realistic--------do you play the penny slots when you go to las vegas?
naw-------you go to circus-circus and ride the kiddie rides.......
they're free!!!!!!!!!

high risk sh!t!... what are the potential returns WHEN the currency
crisis rears to its' full height? only the ripples have been seen...
who is going to buy the grains? whose curriencies can afford our
commodities? their companies ( asian ) are collapsing faster than they
can make copy.........patience grasshopper..........don't alienate
the ant.....he knows what is coming..........

is it a sure thing?
no....
nothing is..........
is it a viable place to speculate with residual cash?
hell yes............
stratsoy is predicting soybean prices @610 for this years bottom....???
are you available to counsel them????
the bean bulls think other-wise............who will win the prize?

to win big with options......go against the grain[sic]........be the
one sitting alone at some weird strike........one day.....chaos and flux.
one good options play will fund 20yrs worth of options speculation
@5k per year........

here are my other options-------shoot holes in them.......and we'll
let father time--option killer--tell the tale........

june 30yr-bond 112-00 puts..........3
all months gold calls 400-360 strikes.........18......1800oz.......
1oz gold would be enough to buy your smelly hide.......naw...1oz of silver...................
and get some change back......!; ) ----mnc------your new acronym--mnc

REALISTIC---------
btw......what are some of your investments? c'mon mouth....let's
hear some of you calls.......don't be plaigeristic again! YOUR calls.......

ever heard of suckers rallies? .........techno-historians know them all
too well......

again-------buy gold------time is short.....shoot at that......-------aaawwwwwkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk------

cherokee!;----patiently-waiting---90-days-and-counting---for-the-truth---

From a historical perspective, it is almost imperative that, in order to substantiate the existence of a Bull market, the DOW MUST rise in the two days revolving around THE STATE OF THE INTERCOURSE speech.

To that effect, the index funds are throwing the precious remnants of their cash margin into the battle to shore up the DOW.

Try and get information about cash flows from the mutual funds today. Damn near impossible.

If there is to be a market crash, then expect it within the next 30 days.

Gold's strong rise in the midst of today's strong DOW showing augurs problems ahead for the financial markets.

Intraday Fidelity Select funds can be gotten through the online trading button on their home page. You have to register for it and I would imagine be a customer of theirs. I don't remember if registration is via internet of phone.

You do not go into battle without fear, secondly you do not enter a battle ready to die but rather to react to the cards you are dealt. I do wish to say that I take to heart your desire that I do not die. It is one of my highest priorities.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/insight_do_1.html

Sorry for forgetting your contribution. Thanks for all your hunting and sharing with this board as well. When one financial advisor touted 'global markets' as the next best new thing to me at the beginning of 1997 I felt an alarm go off in my head. Stayed away from that stuff like the plague. And look at where they are at now. Ugh!!! Unhappy for those who swallowed the marketting line away back when. Was toying with a Poland or Russia fund but my better judgement prevailed; "Is this real market growth or just money pumping money???". The latter case in this case.

As per various other points of view in the world. Many look at the world as a succession of empires. The Japanese tried to establish theirs and failed. The Chinese, I believe are still smarting over their subjugation in the earliest part of this century. Of course, the Russian empire AKA the USSR, is in great dis-repair following its attempt to socialize economics. The Europeans basicly tore themselves apart in THE world war which was punctuated by a 15 year 'peace'. Just now getting back on their feet with the EEC and ECU. As the Tri-lateral, post-WWII grouping failed the US has focused more on uniting the Americas as a trade block.

Is this 'multi-lateralism'??? I see three major blocks emerging: Europe, Asia and the Americas. Their respective currencies: ECU, US$ and Yen ( or some hydrid ) . The Arab/Oil block is the wild card. It seems Africa is firmly in Europe's sphere with contention from Asia and the Arab/Oil block.

at 5.935%. Volume on NYSE at 705 million shares. Pretty busy day.

Is this 'multi-lateralism'??? I see three major blocks emerging: Europe, Asia and the Americas. Their respective currencies: ECU, US$ and Yen ( or some hydrid )

- you mean "Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia" don't you?

I think when we see up days in gold while markets going down, that will be the last sign. Previously gold has had strong days when markets did, but it also went down with markets, when the true divergence hits, down dow, sp, = up in gold.

What businessman would? The banks have ( are supposed to have )
the fiduciary responsibility! That is why I believe that banks are an anachronism, and their day is drawing to a close. Hip, Hip... {:- )
We have to wait just a bit for the last Hurrah!

PS--Have I set a record, a double-post contained within a single post?
Sorry. Need lunch, a glass of modest Chardonnay and some non-think
time!
BBL

Their twisten' ma' arm somthin fierce. I said I would never sign. But they just keep torturing me. Ouch! Ouch-OUCH!!! I don't want to take the money. I'm a honest business man. Can't someone please stop themmmm .......

OK. I'll sign. When do I get the cash???

You are a very special asset of this forum. Thanks for your untiring discovery and submission of relevant press...and your presageful commentary.

SDRer and Avalon...re:banks... Mr. C.W. Murchison used to tell me about banks.. "Hell, all they are, are lazy partners. Think of them as that."

There is nothing new under the sun. Orwell read history and deduced the future. Its is as it ever has been and will be. The names have changed but the beat goes on and on and on.

BB tomorrow.

I just meant that I hadnt made my point in a sufficiently Mozellian Way! ( i.e., Waterford crystal-clear )

Re: Alarm bells going off--Happily one learns to trust them!

Re: Blocks--What is of central interest--to me, at any rate--is attempting to see through other eyes. ..and talk about eye-openers! For example, this Oriental view of the Occidental world:

We are certainly living in interesting times. The modern civilization that prevailed for such a long period is finally at an end, and we are witnessing the birth of a new civilization to replace it.

Now THERE are a couple of sentences that focus the mind! ( :- )
BBL

Date: Wed Jan 28 1998 14:30
vronsky ( IMPRESSIVE TURN-AROUND IN PRECIOUS METALS ) ID#426220:

It is GREAT to have you posting. Your invlovement with this bb is a MAJOR positive. I appreciated your referencing when a new article shows up on your bb, but I am happy that you are continuing to participate under Bart's new rules.

farfel: Just worries me that the news came out at 9AM and RYO spent the day in the doldrums ( or at least until gold woke up ) . Even DKT buyers were asleep this morning. No trades until mid-morning. And the end of the day wasn't spectacular for gold shares in general either, despite the jump in prices. Comments anyone?

was like horse manure; If you just let it all pile up, it stank to high heaven;
you had to "spread it around" to get any benefit out of it !

After careful analysis, the Lucky 777 oscillator apprises me of the most momentous buy signal I have observed in over 777 months.

Just the facts:

777 months equals 64 years, now subtract the year 1998 from the 64 years and you get the year 1933.

In 1933 after confiscating Americans gold at about $20.00 per ounce, the Rooseevelt Administration devalued the U.S. dollar and officially INCREASED the price of gold by 77.7% to $35.00 an ounce.

Now if we use today's intra day $304.53 spot and double the 1933 increase of 77.7% to 155.40%, gold should be at 777.77 per ounce at 7pm on the 7th day of the 7th month.

My brother Farfel
I share your excitement over whatever news there was at
royal Oak - However my brother - I no not believe that
words and cheering is what makes stocks rise. I believe that
only earnings will do that. Make some numbers my brother.
failing that, pray hard to al'lah. perhaps his intervention
will make this pathetic mine profitable. But there are so
many mines and only one al'lah - although he can be everywhere.
But please brother farfel - less words and more music - the
music of numbers - so dear to the sons of the desert as we
chart our course by night under the desert sky.
Has anyone seen that dwarf that follows me in the dark and
bellows at the moon?? I hope is not lost in the desert. I seem
to fascinate him and in a strange way I have become almost
fond of the poor devil. Peace be unto him, enshal'lah.
Al'lah O akbar

Everyone wasn't gone for the day,come on 585 silver give me another chance PLEASE!!

Would the technical types tell me if was a "V" reversal day for gold?

My understanding that "V" reversals are very positive.

Thanks in advance.

Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Fell 1,608 troy ounces to 428,291

Silver: Rose 238,929 troy ounces to 104,235,049 -Just above a 13 year low

Volatility was at its best in the Silver market today... From a high of "614" ( March contract ) overnight, it plummeted to as low as "582" early this morning before recovering swiftly. The initial rumour of the very famous suit as already made the prices plunge by a full $1 earlier this year and now that the rumour has become reality last night, should we start looking at it as: Sell the rumour, buy the fact? Did you notice that when prices dropped well below the $6 level, the suit seemed to be called off but now that Silver gained back some strength by even closing back above the $6 level yesterday, the news got out last night that the suit is officially on! While the Bears continue to pretend that the Comex drawdowns are a deliberate attempt to drive prices higher, the Bulls conclude that it is a natural extension of the supply deficit that started in the late eighties. While we still don't have any evidence of some inventory manipulation in the Comex warehouses, one thing is for sure: the consumption of Silver has exceeded supply by so much over the past several years that sooner or later, the prices will have to reflect it!
For more interesting and important news on Silver, you can look up today's posts of:
8:02 am.................9:33 am....................and 11:46 am.
Also an important note to smaller capitalized traders: today's wild gyrations should be convincing enough to remain extremely prudent in this market and "smaller bets" are the ideal so that huge price swings can be better sustained.

Gold's move late today was relatively impressive, since the US$ was
little changed, up a bit vs yen down a bit vs Mark & SF, and on a day the DOW is up 100 points, and yes AG & RR are to speak tomorrow, I predicted that "they" would hold Gold below 300 until at least friday,
dind't happen, thus that failure is cogent evidence of the Iraq "effect" on the SHORTS.....
Will "they" allow Gold to get away now,and create a Feb short squeeze?
If that happens we could have some "Thunder"....We are due for some, it's just a matter of a little more time.....
BTW I heard a military "analyst" suggest that Hussein is threatening
to expand the "conflict" if attacked, and in that scenario, the US would
be forced to deploy ground troops again to "get him".....interesting US to occupy Iraq?....Hhmmm....
Has anyone else noticed how this "Iraq thing" is crowding the SE Asia
IMF "Giltch" out of the headlines?....Nah, "they" wouldn't do that....

Check this one out....He told me once that the only distinguishing difference between a "good" business deal and a "bad" deal was...whether it was bankable or not. In other words, it was the bank's problem to determine investment advisabilty...not the deal proposer or borrower. Long shall Clint and Clint, jr. be remembered! Amen.

THEY DONT BELIEVE THE RALLY IN GOLD/IMHO THIS IS BULLISH.
BEFORE THEY ( investors ) USED TO BELIEVE. THE XAU WAS WRONG IN PREDICTING AN ADVANCE IN GOLD. CAN YOU BLAME ANYBODY.

SPECIAL ON MINERS INCLUDING ROYAL OAK TO AIR ON CBC ON TUES AT 8:30 EST.

Any views on FREEPORT MCMORAN or HOMESTEAK, Im looking for a gold company that is solvent and is not burdened with debt or caught in a hedge if Gold takes off.What about Cambior? Thanks

I think the details of our shorting friend's lawsuit are VERY interesting:

http://cnnfn.com/markets/wires/9801/28/silver_wg/index.htm

He claims, among other amusing things, that NY Republic Bank and J.P. Morgan conspired to BUY COMEX silver to hide them in London.

Hey, I thought that the banks were SELLING Silver and Gold since they were no longer a store of any value!!! The interesting idea here is the fact of the alledged shiping of silver across the ocean. If removing silver from the visible registered storage was the only goal, then simply taking delivery would have fulfilled it as well! Why ship it to London?! Perhaps US is no longer a safe place to keep any real money?! Inquisitive gold bugs want to know!

Rather than laughing at the guy's story let us propagate it among the short sellers. ( causing a little panic, maybe?! )

I just happen to look at your posting last nite where you spoke ever
so clearly, as if you've seen in a Mirage..., let me see if I got this right
with Gold about 450.
Harmony to go up 50 times @ 2= about $100.00+++
Drooy to go up 80 times @ 3= $240.00++++

ABX to go up to $40.00 from $20.00 now
Placer to go to $12.00 from $13.00 now.

I just wanted all to record this devine prediction right out of your
Camel's Breath....

BTW Placer colsed today at 14 1/4 so much for
your Placer predictions, gee and Gold is only at 305....
Say why haven't you brought us up to date on all SA mines closings
so far and the many more to come....

I think you have been out in the sun a little too long, even for you.

Can someone comment on TVX news today.

Would anybody be able to tell me when the Pegasus Gold Mining Inc. ( PGU ) will be trading again and where? I just want to see how much more money I'll be losing. Thanks.

When did Homestake start hedging gold? They seem solvent to me!
This is a temperary shut down at the lead mine.

The following news item concerning Plutonic states that they have 1,227,000 million ounces sold forward. Has anyone an idea of what the average price on this large forward position is?
If it is high, good ole'Homestake may receive a windfall, may even sell it back to RBA, ho,ho ho, http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/plutonic_p_1.html

All;
As a side benefit to my studious addiction to Kitco and the gold markets, I notice "things", every once and a while. Could someone please comment on why the spot gold market seemed to lead the futures gold market to the upside in the closing hour of trade. Is this backwardation? What does this prognosticate in the coming days for volatility, volume and price. If all this short squeeze action is in the Feb gold futures, how should this roll over into Marchin like a lamb-out like a lion? Is this just a month ending trading phenomenon/squeeze, that will lead to a correction after the Feb 2nd?
I would like to take this time to express my sincere gratitude to all the contributors of this site. I have been completely addicted for about 6 months. A special KUDOS to the people who first talked about DROOY. ABXGW.o doing great !! Thanks to all !!

Gold for the good guysGMJ

The shorts when they file suit against the gold longs should ask themselves why the gold went as low as it did. If the shorts ask themselves that question, they will drop their suits.

I used Hoover's Stockscreener to filter the US markets for metals mining stocks, using debt/equity ratio of less than 0.2 and Return on equity of greater than 5%. The stocks which follow are the output; first number is the D/E ratio, the second is ROERoyal Gold 0/23.2% Cusac Gold 0/18.3% US Gold 0/9.1% Alta Gold 0.06/9.0% La Teko Resources 0/7.2% Campbell Resources 0.05/6.4% Barrick 0.14/6.2%

Dow/Gold Ratio = 25.89 ( The Dow was up $100.39 1998 dollars but DOWN $2.48 1933 dollars! )

If gold goes up , that will be great. But if it does not, I will always remember the special folks here at Kitco. They are special in that they always seem able to disagree agreeably. From Jin to Haggis, and at all points in between, there is more to be learned here than trading metals.

It is a shame that countries and politicians do not understand that while we are so different, we are all brothers on this ever shrinking ball that we call earth. In the months ahead I pray that that wisdom and forethought will guide them , and maybe a month or two on Kitco would not hurt.

Be kind today, for tomorrow is not guaranteed.

XAU/Spot Ratio = .258

Maybe GS HAS TAKEN DELIVERY OF THE SILVER AT HIS APPOINTED PRIVATE WAREHOUSE and JP and REPUBLIC were just good brokers. Wouldnt George be allowed to buy physical silver as a good investment or is that illegal. REP BANK and JP and GOLDMAN arm J Aron acting for themselves to push silver up a buck is a laugh. I'd be more worried if the defendants were of the Hunt status instead of major institutions with high priced Lawyeres to keep things tied up in court for years. Given the lease rates and recent drop in stocks/ this suit is scaring no one and is probably without merit or even if it was ( unlikely though ) would probably be unenforceable against the real Buyers ie customers of the defendants.

Dennis: I was only curious about Homesteak, I did not mean to imply that they were hedging. Thanks for your interest. Silverbaron, Thanks for the info.

Gold/Silver Ratio = 50.03

A.Goose: Your Question: "Would the technical types tell me if was a "V" reversal day for gold?"

Per golden-eagle Intra-Day Charts it was not a "V" formation. It started out low early in the morning, had spurt, then leveled until right at 2PM, then a spurt to close to end on its tippy-toppy toes ( ie high of the day ) .

The feable yet defiant errant Market faces the Golden Monstrosity and says...Eat my shorts!

freind contacted me re ECM/Leg silver etc find in Australia,detailed report to be released prior to months end-----normal quartley rport on activities.

Should you wand some quick details, place some questions ( make them short please I am not a typist ) i will be on line for nexr hour

rgds JOE

Spot Gold currently: 305.40

Spot Silver currently: 6.01

Take care...Barb

TZADEAK: If you are interested, I have important data for you relative to one of your posts yesterday. email vronsky@netrox.net

A certain poster ( name undisclosed ) with strong ties to the vegetable world ( via the potato family ) keeps exhorting us to reply as to whether the parents among us would hesitate to send their 18-year old daughters to intern at the white house.

Surely it would have to depend on just how the parents of said 18-year old daughter had brought her up. If raised to believe that engaging in an essentially human activity such as sex with an acknowledged sleazeball, scumbag degenerate would have more intrinsic value than doing so with a more conventionally inclined member of society, and the said parents nevertheless felt that doing so would be outrageous, then the answer would obviously have to be YES.

If on the other hand, said daughter had been raised to believe the opposite then...not at all.

Following this line of thinking, it is not too difficult to draw conclusions concerning the parenting practises of the above cited potato head. IMHO

Looks like the shorts are in trouble. Just a few says ago Ted Arnold and Andy Smith were saying gold would not go above $300 for at least 3 years. Andy opined that if European CBs don't sell heavily others will. This when it is well known that support for gold has risen tremendously in Asia these last 6 months.

May I suggest that the anti-gold fanaticism of these two ( and quite a few others as well ) is just as off base as the pro gold fnaticism of extreme goldbugs. They must be classified as propagandists, not serious analysts like many here at Kitco, both bulls and bears. Perhaps one or both will be jumping out of a window when the yellow develops a REAL head of steam.

To All: Isn't it interesting that even after the very negative Barron's article this weekend and the filing of the "silver conspiracy" lawsuit yesterday, gold closed higher than it did last Friday? The ability to shrug off bad news is a good sign at least for the short term. It's the timing of the 2 events that has me wondering. Is there a conspiracy in place to go the other way... that is to keep precious metals down?

I am wondering if anyone here can explain how to read drilling results. SSC mining has released there drilling results and I need help reading the results. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/980128/sunshine_m_1.html

I would be very interested in knowing the following: ( 1 ) Total proven and probable reserve estimates for precious metals ( 2 ) Cash on hand to develop the complex ( 3 ) Cash 'burn' ( depletion ) rate ( 4 ) Total outstanding shares ( 5 ) Estimated time to develop the complex and begin production.......Any of this data would be greatly appreciated....Thanks!

for the record, and an indication of things to come.......

options..........

july 400 calls------yesterday--$60.--------today--$200. per bohl's site

the sellers of gold are waking-up in a big way.....they are waking-up
to a night-mare scenario.........

time to buy more........too bad they have gotten SO EXPENSIVE OVER-NIGHT!!!.......................

more than a 300% increase in value in 1 day........not bad......
they'll be hard as hens teeth to find, or buy very soon..............

realistic.........un-real huh?

!;....no-more-diatribe-----only-the-message-for-the-peopleo--prepare----

Some of the people conspiring to keep
POG down is:
Alan Greenspan
R. Rubin
Bill Clinton
All Central Banks
The BIS
The IMF
Most ALL securities analysts
CNBC
Most ALL brokerage firms


BUT---they are walking a fine line while trying
desperately to keep US stocks from adjusting
downward. After Bill Clinton resignation.
very few will care about a 20% correction in
the US stock market. Also, if we are going to
stay"global" the US dollar has got to go down
in value so our trading partners can buy our
goods.

The Fed has been supporting this market for
some while ( using tax dollars ) by buying
futures during times of absolute crisis.

YES INDEED----there are those who conspire to
keep the POG in check. But now, the shorts are
in deep s--t. Watch for a squeeeeeze on the
shorts and for POG to return to normal trading
range very soon.

A large percentage of American women ( something like 70% ) fantasize about having sex with Clinton according to a recent poll I read. If a below-average looking guy with a nose like W.C. Fields has such power from his position, just imagine how JFK would have scored ( pun intended. ) Of course, only scumbags like Clinton would take this advantage to use and abuse women.

If this guy is not a sexual harrasser, please tell me who is.

Old Gold: Gold seems to be decoupled from the market, and is going up when the market is going up. Also -- it seems to be able to shrugg off the gloomiest news the talking heads can come up with. However, the Commodity price index has been rising rapidly, and may eventually swing down short term. When it does, gold will probably falter for a time. When the commodity price index bottoms, that may be the optimaal time to add to our positions.

Any idea why Cry0 is rising so steadily?

JTF: I guess Monday's "reach up and wipe down" preceded this move.. ...

I"m all ears

I'm sure that those two guys have been handsomely rewarded for the havoc they have reeked on the PM's. May they SUFFER a fate, worst than hell.
GO GIT DEM BOYZ; golebugs.

I think that the currencies will evolve geographically/politically as you outlined. What bothers me is that if the 3 most powerful cb's disavow AU & in concert pursue policies which will make the use of AU as a safe haven anathema to them, what chance does AU really have to reassert itself, except for supply/demand fundamentels?

As you are no doubt aware it was the return of the AU standard to Britain after WW1 that precipitated the last depression.

As you stated, the wild card resides in the ME, which is why IMO, the U.S. needs a Saddam there.

explains why Starr is moving slowly,

http://www.msnbc.com/news/138134.asp

Don't think so - see chart http://www.intersurf.com/~vor/gold.html

Another breed coming into the market,not to make money but bib time hedgeing for funds,I don't think they are going to give ahoot about anything except protecting existing capital,and for that Gold is the best,no telling how many how soon how ever they will come,lets welccome them with joy as we climb the steep mountain of etc. ( shouldn't had those beers ) the more size the more force go Gold!

I could live with Harmony at $100 and Durban Deep at $240. Actually that would be nice. Then I could retire like your friend Mr. Disney. ;- )

I can see your fear of risk here but isn't it better to invest when the fundamentals are good and the street negative rather than waiting for the runups?

Looking at the p/e's for the popular NA stocks they're nothing to write home about. ( At a p/e of 70 or 90 I might as well buy Wendy's or Microsoft ( or Cat for that matter, as it is one of my personal favorites. ) ) As this winter proves that many have 'significant downside risk' IMHO it might be better to be hanged for a sheep than for a lamb.

Re: Dave in CO
Glad to see that political correctness is so alive and well. Sexual harrassment between consenting adults? Well, why not? Funny how language falls apart and any concept turns to mud from some sources.

The environmentalists who are headed by

Al Gore, Bruce Babbit, & Bill Clinton absolutely

despise one US mining operation located in

Nevada that now has a huge SHORT position.

Do you suppose that they may choose to step

aside for a few months in order to deal a

crushing blow to that mining concern???

Bruce Babbit almost foams at the mouth when he

talks about how this company is

Those options are moving right nicely! Last Monday I bought ten Dec 98 350 calls at 2300. Today they are at 5400. Not bad for 7 trading days. The Jun 98 400 calls I reported buying 7 months ago for 700 have seen a low of 300 but have recovered to 500 - - As I said then, I regarded that as an "insurance" policy, just in case I woke up one Monday to 600 gold! ( Prices from Bohr's site ) .

Great Trading and Go Gold!

Savage: If you are short gold, I guess you push gold up enough to attract the momentum players, and then knock it down to shake them out. You keep this up in an attempt to eliminate the competition, and then really push gold down. Except this time it didn't work, did it? Sure didn't stay down long. The only problem I have with this is that CRY0 has been rising steadily -- guess the gold shorts were guessing that CRY0 was going to start heading south for a while -- wrong again!

Durban could indeed hit $240 but it would take $1,000 per oz. gold which
is in fact a realistic possibility over the next 3 years.

Sticks and stones....

Now, repeat after me, PH in LA:

"Fear,
Anger,
Denial,
Acceptance"

Clinton & unwholesome crew are for the history books of crooks & corruption.

just checked bohls option page again------

bogus figures for the july400 calls.....not 200----are--90
up 10%........must've seen the future.............

Both these companiesare minnows
East Coast has about 17.5mill shares, very tightly held
and 15 mill options ( 20 cents to pay ) it has 70% of the leases

Legend mining has about 28 mill shares and 28mill options
and 30% of the project

drilling from surface to about 100 meters @60 deg hit 16% silver in one hole then 3% in another hole.As a reslt of this a exploratory shafthas been sunk to 85 netere afew meters away from the 3% hole.

samples were taken and showed 35% silver.then a 103 ton bulk sample was taken and is now being processed.after this a diamond drill programme commenced ,13 were put in within the ore body. All holes intersected native silver-----expected to show some reasonable lengthe of 5%Ag.

From previous drilling it is fair to say theris about 50,000 tons of about 2% Ag.and still very openended in all directions.

When treating the bulk they recovered a yellow metal with a SpGravity well above that of silver, on sight one first thought it to be Electrum, but studies now show it to be a mixture of platinum ,palladiun and Rhodiun in quantities ( in value ) to rival the silver content.

It iAs this is a primary deposit the extensions are most likely.

right now it is not difficult to cum up with a possible 100 mill oz deposit .

Actual reservers may not be known for some time as drilling from surface is difficult ( i know as i have been there ) , ground breks when drill hits native silver. the silver wraps itself on the drillbit and the calcite material crumbles making recovery difficult.

as to mining the stuff, preliminary studied show it can be dona at an assumed rate of 100 t/day.Fulltreatment is about $500/ton ore in perth and a possible much less done on site.But the other credits would cover all costs

both companies fave sufficint funds to extract at rate of 5000 t/pa.

As a human being and an American I am deeply saddened that our nation has become the world's leading bullyboy. Threatening Iraq, a nation with a GDP less than 1% of ours, with nuclear weapons takes real courage, doesn't it.

But as a gold investor, the use of nuclear weapons against Iraq would be the most bullish development since the OPEC embargo. Nuclear proliferation would die as many nations moved to secure the means to protect themselves from US arrogance and bullying. International alliances would be strained and some would break down.

The fact that American leaders would even consider using nuclear weapons in this situation illustrates how depraved and bestial many of them are. But if they want to it, most on this thread will get MUCH RICHER in very short order.

My brother John,

Your message from the desert was heard.

Your RYO numbers are undisputable and

sharp like a shiny sabre of a holy warrior

of Allah. RYO is doomed, numbers never lie.

The last hope of miserable me, standing in

the middle of a great desert with my tired

body digged into the sand up to my ears, is to

pray...


Starting from today, January 28, I'll pray to

Allah to dig me out of the hot sand, to give

me a gift of water ( or vodka, whatever comes

first ) , shish kebab and taboulli, along with

Tony Packo's pickles and one-way ticket

to the heaven, where I can have all stuff mentioned

above for free and in unlimited quantities, and a

team of hot-looking Mohammedan chicks will comfort

me in three shifts...


With love and hope,


Your suffering brother Oris.

If the major CB's are inclined to sell or lease gold "so-be-it"; and if, in the aftermath or continuation of the Asian Crisis their inclinations remain the same "so-be-it".
Then it becomes obvious, that the indivigual citizen should call for change, by the purchase of precious metal related assets.
May I say that Clinton is a babe in the woods when compared to those who control him. IMHO

Where's Haggis when we really need him? Well, I'll take a shot at it.g/t = grams of precious metal per ton of ore ... opt = ounces of precious metal per ton of ore ... Width = this is a little puzzling, but I'm guessing it is the depth of the vein along the core sample, in meters or feet.Does this help?

That link you gave had an SSC phone number. They've been sending such information out since they opened their south american exploratons and will send out lots of details to stockholders.

If they are resorting to lawsuits to keep the mkt down then they CANT do it in the market.

Aussie gold index up another 5% so far today. That makes @14% in the last 3 days. Only the start??? Will wait with baited breath for futures delivery notices in US Friday. Is the market telling us there ain't enough gold to cover 'em??? Comments???

I believe you both noticed that Sunshine has a web site at http://www.sunshine.com ?

PH in LA: while your post has some validity to it, I see it differently. It looks like you are trying to pull a typical stunt - dont blame a criminal ( he cant help it ) its a victims fault. E.g., people victimized by scum artist deserve it.

To have a proper background, let me say that I have two daughters ( age 22 and 24 ) and live in a sinful area of Washington DC suburbs. Yes, I think that I brought my daughters up to have reasonably strong morals. However, the question "would I send them to be White House interns" would very much depend on who is in White House. "Power and glory" of this town does incredible things to people and predators use and misuse it! At this point of time I would not want my daughters be in White House, just like I would not want them to be caught in some high crime areas of DC no matter how skill they are in self defense! You dont send your loved ones to a place where they can be exposed to a danger. BC is a danger to women. Just watch what will happen to that gal. In attempt to get through this mess she will be trashed. She is just one of them "I never had any relationship with that WOMEN"

I'm not sure you read thru my post, so before I respond fully,
Do you believe as Dizzy does that Drooy and Harmony will be
@ 240 and 100 and ABX and Placer @ 40 and 12
with Gold at 450 not 1,000 in other words the SA shares are ONLY
going to move up 80 times and the North American Shares do nothing?

I found this in my mail box, so I thought
I would share it with the group since it really
made my day.....

January 26,1998

T
he new year is shaping up to be a very financially rewarding one. It certainly is going to be an exciting one for Veneroso Associates. Frank just finished his first Gold Book Annual and it is now at the printers. The book is very thorough and its conclusions and its insights about the gold market are likely to shake up many participants in the gold industry. Some of the book's revelations include:
) Gold's real rate of return is surprisingly high. Frank's calculations go back over both a 25-year period and a 180 year period. The Gold Book Annual will be presented to many central bankers and this study may have some effect on the ones that espouse the common day thinking that gold is a "barren reserve asset".
) Gold demand has been much greater than most analysts believe and so is the extent of gold borrowings. As a result of very diligent research, we believe that number to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 8,000 tonnes. That is a big number and times change. At some point in the future, this liability could play a major role in the future price of gold.
) While you never hear it discussed, there is an end to the central bank selling. As a result of the gold market's current supply / demand deficits, it is not as far off as you might think. The Gold Book Annual lays out various scenarios for you.
) If the central bank selling were to stop today, the price of gold, their own reserve asset, would have to rise to $600 per ounce to clear the market.
T
he Gold Book annual was delayed due to the Asian crises as we had to do our best guess to assess its impact on the gold market. Frank is especially equipped to deal with this issue because he has dealt with emerging country Finance Ministers and central banks as well as with the IMF and the World Bank for much of his business career. As many of you know, Frank has written several recent pieces on the Asian crisis. They have created quite a stir and have received a great deal of attention. We understand that these papers have been read by top officials in the World Bank and IMF as well as Finance Ministers and heads of state in some the emerging countries. A short piece will be published in The Economist next week. While many of you subscribe to the Gold Watch Fax Service, Frank is also an advisor to money managers on macro economic issues and is available as a consultant for any of you that have an interest in Asia.
Recently, many of the technical indicators that we monitor led us to believe that the gold market was set up for a substantial rally, and we issued a fax to that effect when gold was trading in the low $280's. On Friday we heard that a large hedge fund had covered shorts on the lows and now has gone long, with the intent of taking on other hedge fund shorts. If the deflation theme changes, and other funds decide to also go long, we could have quite a move. There is significant investment opportunities in the gold share sector. We have highlighted a regional play in the Guyana Shield ( Golden Star Resources and Canarc Resource Corporation ) that has tremendous upside potential. Soon we will issue another on Greenstone Resources. Tuesday, Frank leaves for Nicaragua with Greenstone CEO, Rudi Fronk, to inspect their projects. We believe that our "bottoms up" research is a thorough as our "top down" macro work and hope that you will avail yourself of all our company studies.

If you would like to know more about Veneroso Associates and our services, please contact me.
Bill

Sorry: http://www.sunshinemining.com and it was an easy one.

Joe - Thanks much for the VERY good information - I'll need to work on the numbers, but on the surface it appears to be a deposit to rival that of SSC in the US, with less than 1/4 the number of shares, and shares cost 1/2 as much as SSC ( A$ 0.61/sh ) .VERY NICE, indeed! Any recommendations for brokers down under who can deal with Yanks?

To me as a Canadian it is just unbelievable that intelligent people are even discussing the possibility of using nukes against Iraq. But if the U.S. wanted to unleash the condemnation of the entire world, then that would certainly be a way to do it.

PH in LA, you better sign up for a sexual harrassment class. You need some education on how sexual harrassment is defined. Not that I agree with it, but you may be surprised that the law does not give a damn about your interpretation of "Two consensual adults"

G'day guys. I have been watching both East Coast Min. and Legend very closely since Haggis started pumping them up a few weeks ago. My signal to buy is always the volume. If they have got a commercial proposition there it is a well kept secret as there is diddly squat volume in both shares. When the lab analyst's brother's second cousin's uncle's mother-in-law buys a few million shares, I'll be "In like Flynn"!!!

Thank-you for agreeing with my view, since December of said 3
economic and currency blocks.

Yes, you are right...there are certainly better, lower debt mining companies to buy out there than RYO. No doubt about that.

However, in its favor, RYO has a few pretty decent mines and a very STRONG relationship with the Canadian government. It remains an important symbol of the Canadian mining industry. Governments usually hate to let symbols collapse. In any case, today's announcement gives it a new lease on life ( provided gold does not head dramatically South again ) .

It is viewed as a possible Merger Candidate in an ALL STOCK, NO CASH DEAL...if so, the betting is the suitor will be one of those three companies that once bid on the old Busang. Guestimate buyout price is $2.50-$2.75 in suitor stock equivalent.

Stay Tuned.

I must admit that I got faked out this morning. I thought that the $U.S. would strengthen more against the JY & did'nt like the way the XAU started off this morn, so sold more of my stocks. I'm afraid that the rally will have to be postponed for awhile. I need a retracement so that I can get reinvested.

G'day Avalon. COG was selling for the price of their cash in the bank a few weeks ago ( 4-5 cents ) if memory serves me right. There were so many bargains around that I couldn't buy em all.

http://www.reflections.com.au/MiningandExploration/ExplorationNews/

Check this site out for Aussie wannabes. You could have bought any of 'em 4 days ago and you'd have a smile a foot wide today. Cheers, Nick

I've heard you can now visit DISNEYLAND without waiting in lengthy lines.

Apparently, the Asian tourism into this country has dropped off dramatically...the busloads of Asians have seemingly vanished.

I suppose this is one of the "great defationary benefits" that the Asian debacle is bringing to America ( as per Greenspan, Rubin, and their ilk ) .

Good earnings and news for Aussie gold miner GTCMY http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980128/great_cent_1.html

Charles Keeling: Thanks for posting. Anything info from him or about him seems to be worth its weight in gold! Wish I could afford the $8,000/year newsletter.

WHAT ARE J. DISNEY's Numbers RE RYO?

Subtitle: How the Democrats Will Win the Mext Election

To appreciate the feasibility of the proposed solution, it is necessary to review the HISTORY OF THE US GOVERNMENT'S OFFICIAL PRICE OF GOLD.

In 1792 the US Congress adopted a bimetallic standard ( gold and silver ) for the new nations currency - with gold valued at $19.30 per troy ounce. This remained essentially unchanged until 1834, when the price of gold was raised to $20.67 level, which held for the next 100 years. It was not until 1934 that President Franklin Delano Roosevelt devalued the dollar by raising the price of gold to $35 per ounce.

In December 1971 representatives of the 10 most industrialized nations met in Washington D.C. It was their expressed purpose to take whatever measures in order to improve international economic conditions. The now famous Smithsonian Agreement accorded an immediate hike in the value of gold from $35 to $38 per ounce. President Richard Nixon hailed it as the most significant monetary agreement in history of the world. Unfortunately, it resulted in a measure too little and too late. International economic conditions continued to deteriorate, forcing the US government to devaluate the dollar a second time by raising the official price of the yellow metal to $42.22.

Since 1973 the official US price of gold of $42.22 remains in place for the unaudited government hoard of 262 million troy ounces. If our illustrious politicians in Washington had a lick o sense ( to put it in the Arkansas presidential vernacular ) , gold would be revalued to about $400 - thus approximately the average of the annual high and low prices during the last 20 years. Why would Congress consider such a revaluation, you might ask? Because its darn good business! Allow me to explain.

Revaluating gold to $400 per ounce would reap real and substantial benefits for the American people and economy. The official US value of all its gold is only $11.05 billion - although no spit in the bucket, its a darn sakes smaller then it shud be, huh Mr. Prez? By establishing the official gold price at $400 per ounce, the US gold deposit would be valued at $104.8 billion ( 400 X 262,000,000 ) . The accounting profit of revaluating inventory to reflect the new official US gold price would reap close to near $100 billion in real, spendable money. HEY, Mr. Prez, please recall this amount of real profit is about equal to the current annual federal deficit. Think of the political coup you would pull-off by the flick of your left wrist. In one fell-swoop you would substantially reduce this years deficit - the result would most probably will get you off the hook with the American people and the political opposition about alleged loose morals and accusations of mounting infidelities. Mr. Prez, it behooves to think long and hard on this - as your ratings are going down, so to speak.

Now Mr. Prez, if you really wanted to let it all hang out, ( of course, I mean that in a figurative sense ) you would cater to Fed Chairmans 30 year passion to go back on the Gold Standard - you may bone up on this at www.golden-beagle.com website ( delete the en after the word g o l d - if there ) . And to prevent the Soros of the world from meddling with the officially pegged gold price, put it up high enough out of their reach - lets say $4,000 per ounce.

Think of it Mr. Prez, the US Treasury would instantaneously obtain a profit of almost a TRILLION DOLLARS - EQUIVALENT TO ONE FIFTH OF THE TOTAL NATIONAL DEBT. You would be a legend in your own time. The Democrats would do you in bronze, and place the statue between the Lincoln and Washington monuments.

This may all sound like tongue in cheek fantasy, but it is feasible, logical, plausible, viable and ( in my humble opinion ) possible. The current official US value of gold at $42.22 per troy ounce is ludicrous and not reflective of current free market realities! Common-sense dictates that some politicians in Washington already know this - perhaps it is the wildcard trump that they will play in the most propitious moment. Needless to say that the indecisive investors, not already on-board when that moment comes, will be ( as they say in Arkansas ) S.O.L...

And what would the American public then say about your alleged sex scandals... Monica, Schmonica!

Pegasus suspended from the TSE...it will trade in all likelihood in a special New York dealers market and or NASDAQ.

Announcement to be made shortly ( expect market makers to announce trade resumption in advance of a day in which they feel certain gold will have a strong UP move ) .

I too got faked out in the 70's, as a matter of fact one week before the Big move, lucky I got back in, in time....As I mentioned last night,
the US$ has begun a long term downtrend, however as we approach
the actual bombing of Iraq, it would show stregnth, along with the
markets, but certainly no new highs. As I stated in my earlier post
Gold's move today was up vs all currencies and the DOW...
As far as an oppurtunity to get in, hard to call, things appear "liquid"
that is why I hold on to my NA gold stocks, no time limit really,
as long as you believe the bottom is in, you can't loose. Hey but
'nothing" goes up or down in a straight line, know what I mean.....

This is my third attempt to get this info. Would be obliged if someone could help.

A short time ago someone posted a series of charts of the POG in several
Asian currencies. Can someone please re-post? TIA

http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980128.141113.auratoree.htm


thrumbing my fingers, trying to exercise patience...tra la la..help please.....tra la la...biting my nails.....tra la la.....where dat data?

The announcements from Joya Del Sol are regarded as within expectations.
Good volume today suggests further Big Boys' accumulation.

SSC vehemently forecast this strong up move in silver almost to the month some two years ago. I would expect they are taking advantage of it.

LGB is right...the stock has been a major dog. However, when earnings are announced soon, if they are good, then watch the stock sizzle!

I attempted to add to my gold position approximately a week ago
by phoning Fidelity to purchase a gold stock by the name of
William Resources ( WIM.TO ) . As has now happened several times
in my dealings with Fidelity, the representative told me she
could not find the stock for my purchase. Needless to say, the
stock was trading at .225 per share then and closed at .55 today;
quite a move in several days!

And so I now know where not to keep money in an account for
stock transactions. At least DROOY pulled through!

I can't afford that 8,000 price tag either. However,
since I hold CANARC stock ( one of his favorites ) I do get
updates from time to time. I am going to invest in his book
because it is timely, and should help me keep my spirits up
until prices are higher ( POG ) .

I went heavy for CANARC because of their holdings in
Surinam ,Guyana and Canada. They have 2 million ounces drill
indicated reserves in Canada & Costa Rico. But the big
kicker is in Surinam where I think they are on to a really
BIG one. I am under water with CANARC, but I recently
averaged down. PDG is JV partner on the Suriname property
that Frank is wild about.

If POG does hit 600 the size of my yacht that I plan to buy
will increase to 63'.

Stand aside shorts. GO GOLD.

1. The Aussie stock exchange has a webpage at www.asx.com.au/
if you go there, they have a Broker Referral Service which will give you a complete list of brokers. Some of the larger houses have office in the US, but they are really more geared towards institutional business, but they could probably put you in touch with their "downunder" offices.

2. Pont Securities in Sydney ( tel 011-612-9251-2277 is a discount broker
( non advisory ) that you might want to talk with. The young lady I deal with is Alexis Re. Pont is now owned by onw of the big Canadian banks
( Toronto Dominion, I think ) . One thing I have noticed about this company is that it can be difficult to get them on the phone when "things are busy", so you may want to plan your moves in advance.

3. Shaw Stockbroking ( Harold Milner ) in Sydney at telephone 011-612-9238-1238 is a full service broker and Harold has a web page
about all types of aussies stocks. I have exchanged emails with him about several other business matters, but not done any business with him. May be a better bet for you than a discount broker.

4. Bill Buckler at The Privateer may also have some thought for you. as
might Haggis and Nick.

5. These names come to you with absolutely no liability on my part, but if you want to cut me in for a share of the upside, I would have no objection ( silly grin ) . .

"And what would the American public then say about your alleged sex scandals... "

Before or after this flabby excuse for a human is indicted for obstruction of justice, purjury and sexual harrasment?

It appears you do have a price, Vronsky: $400/oz gold.

I for one care only that wicker men and women be driven from
our government in humiliation to the prison cells awaiting their kind:
just ordinary criminals.

Listing of URL's for Australian Stockbrokers homepages:

http://www.minmet.com.au/links7.html

G'day mate. Do you see that little spot in the distance??? That is the caboose of the gold train and it is heading away from you at a rapid speed. WoooooooooooooWooooooooooooo.

Price of gold against world currencies:

http://pacific.commerce.ubc.ca/xr/

......then PLOT SERIES......

Unfortunately I have just tried this and it failed. it normally workd, hence temporary error.

Darkwing, the following are the weighted averages of each of the zones referred to in the Sunshine press release. Natasha, 3.9 meters 4.2 g/t gold 32 g/t silver - Sirena,7.4 meters 7.5 g/t gold 32 g/t silver - Anastasia, 6.3 meters 7.9 g/t gold 29 g/t silver - Ivana, 2.2 meters 10.6 g/t gold 26 g/t silver. The above ignores the barren holes. g/t is grams per meteric tonne. There are 31.1 grams per troy ounce. The press release says that the widths are belived to be true thickness, meaning that they are believed to reflect the true width of the vein.

Charles Keeling: Rest assured, we of Arizona are not proud of Babbit, another enviro-speak pathetic wannabe. Although a native son, he is NOT the embodiment of the Arizona spirit. Been in Washington too long and has long since sold out. Arizona, like many Western US states, is fighting for what made us what we are proud of: Cattle, Copper, Cotton, Citrus and the life we receive from mother earth. Those who forget this are removed from reality.

respectfully.

Is this what you need?

http://pacific.commerce.ubc.ca/xr/plot.html

Take care...Barb

Stillwater up today on good production news:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980128/co_stillwa_1.html

The Aussies have lost it and continue to sell into the market.

The Aussies have lost it and continue to sell into the market.

My thought is, that as soon as his book is issued, anything important in it will be all over this site, golden-eagle, Stockscape, and a host of others. I'd rather have an oz of the shiny yellow stuff, or 100 shares of DRD.......

My thought is, that as soon as his book is issued, anything important in it will be all over this site, golden-eagle, Stockscape, and a host of others. I'd rather have an oz of the shiny yellow stuff, or 100 shares of DRD.......

G'day Auracious. The charts comparing the POG with Asian currencies were posted by DJ.

DJ--where are you. We need an update.

My thought is, that as soon as his book is issued, anything important in it will be all over this site, golden-eagle, Stockscape, and a host of others. I'd rather have an oz of the shiny yellow stuff, or 100 shares of DRD.......

The prices the provocators use for the run up of silver is from $4.17 to $6.37, neither of which can compare after the effect of inflation from the set price of $1.29, when silver was money.
All mining companies should unite against the provocators in a counter suit, as their industry is being destroyed.
Not just lead, zinc, copper and silver, but all miners should make their voices heard and put their money on the line - and demand billions in damages.

Comex warehouse gold stocks were down slightly today by 1608 oz, all of which came from 'eligible' stocks which now stand at 141,524 oz or about 3/4 of an oz for each outstanding gold contract on comex.

I have not posted these numbers recently for several reasons. First was the time requirements which were taking me away from duties for my company, second was the fact that Realistic was doing such a good job at providing the data to you all ( although he is slightly prejudiced in favor of silver! :- ) ) ) ) Third is this #%^& ( ) & new software from Bill Gates which forces me to upgrade everything because I can't use my old email stuff anymore. They should be sued!!!

The interesting stuff in the Comex gold warehouse numbers is that they are so boring!! Prior to the last few First Notice Days ( FND for some of you ) there has been a huge jump in Comex stocks, in my opinion to 'show' that delivery could be made, only to be followed ( after the weak longs were squeezed out ) by a withdrawal of these stocks ( thus they were probably leased gold ? ) . THIS IS NOT HAPPENING NOW!!!! Gold stocks are at extremely low levels and there isn't anymore going in to the warehouse. I don't know what this means, but I would not want to be short!!! Maybe this explains the increasing nervousness we are seeing in the gold market?

I have noticed that just before we have a drop in comex gold prices that the amoount of gold in the 'eligible' catagory rises ( almost like someone knew something, huh? ) . This has been true several times over the past two months.

Several times I have posed the question of if the majority of gold is traded on LBMA, why is the price set on Comex? My answer is that the derivative market is priced off of Comex levels. To me this is the only logical answer, but I am a goldbug, so I must defy logic! :- ) ) )

I did really enjoy meeting a fellow Kitcoite ( or is it Kitcordian? ) when I met Bill from Oregon and his lovely wife over the weekend. We really had a long discussion of varying subjects. It was almost like reading Kitco! I feel that I am a bit spoiled because I have met or talked to some many of you over the past several months. It is nice to be among friends.

http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/980128/international/stories/japan_4.html

Haggis-Thanks for bringing the UBC site to my attention. A sign of the times that you discovered it from 9000 miles away before me, only 40 miles away.

Tzadeak-I have a real problem believing that the JY can continue to go up against the $U.S. With all the corruption being exposed almost daily, I think that their banks & entire economy is in worse shape than all but the most pessimistic could imagine. I think that after Iraq & BC are resolved, the $U.S./JY will reassert itself.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/rubin_says_1.html

james: My understanding is the Administration has "unofficially" threatened to use nuclear weapons if Iraq retaliates with chemical weapons in response to a U.S. bombing attack. Probably just psychological warfare, but, hey, you never know......

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/eu_s_de_si_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/980128/starpoint__1.html

Arden: Nice to hear your insights again. I too am perplexed by the dwindling stocks backing up the contracts. Wasn't that long ago that we had 800K + ounces of Gold in there. Something has got to give soon.
I know that a lot of people who never bought before are now buying physical. That Gold has to come from somewhere, probably a lot of leased/shorted Gold.
That 8000 Tonnes will have to be paid back sometime, and with the current mine closings, it won't be easy ( cheap ) to find IMHO........

Eco Bay has had no price movement the last 4 days, as the price of gold has gone up $ 10+ . Is there a reason. I hope it is the S&P 500 problem that has not worked out. Questions/Answers?????????

Charles Keeling: Thanks for the Veneroso material!

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/cftc_decli_2.html

FundaMETAList - The lack of follow thru on the Mar Silver took the wind out of this rally, looks like a B wave, sell and or short the mar. silver between 6.10 - 6.15. This C wave decline should take silver down under 5.50. Time wise all the metals are due to all over into the 1st qtr. cycle lows. Feb. gold has reached my minmum obj. posted here in Dec ... but it was a struggle. Sell and or short Feb. Gold at 309, April Gold 311, this decline should test the recent lows made in gold with a 50/50 chance of new lows. XAU, sell and or short between 84 -86, hopefully this short will not be very profitable while the gold goes down.

MBER: 152733

Progress Report - Munni Munni Project - Elizabeth Hill

PART: A

DATE: 1997/12/24

EAST COAST MINERALS NL 1997-12-24 ASX-SIGNAL-G

HOMEX - Sydney

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
East Coast Minerals NL 70%
Legend Mining NL 30%

Drilling and exploration has been completed at the Joint Venture
Elizabeth Hill silver project. A total of 13 diamond holes have
been completed ( 240 m ) .

Exploration has concentrated on delineating the ore shoot at the 82 m
level, previously intersected in holes EC 30 and EC 31. Some
exploration drilling has been directed towards the second ore shoot,
previously reported as drill hole EC 25. Both ore shoots indicate
grades in the percentile range. Other known ore shoots have not been
examined in this program.

The mineralisation at the 82 m level has been delineated along strike
27 m south and about 20 m north, totalling 47 m mineralisation and
appears to down plunge 20 m to a proposed new level at 102 m.

All drill holes ended in mineralisation.

Surveying of all holes was completed last week and the Joint Venture
partners are awaiting the data from the survey company.

Samples from all diamond drill holes drilled within the main ore
shoot have been submitted for rapid assay.

Exploration to date has indicated that the silver occurs within
sulphides at grades of up to approximately 1% silver in such minerals
as argentopentlandite, argentopyrrhotite and galena. With grades in
excess of 1% the silver generally occurs as native silver in veins
disseminations or wire silver.

The silver mineralisation is related to the base of the Munni Munni
complex where it occurs in a number of different horizons, namely:

1. Associated with palladium, nickel and copper in a stratiform
horizon 30 m above the base of the complex.

2. Associated with nickel and copper sulphides around the base of the
complex.

3. In shear link structures associated with sulphides and calcite at
the base of the structure. It is here where high grades occur.

Over the 13 diamond holes so far 15 separate mineralised zones have
been detected containing visible silver mineralisation. At this
stage the thickness and grade is unknown until assay results are
obtained in the New Year.

The laboratory has advised due to the quantity of the bulk sample ( 103
tonnes ) results are not expected until after the Christmas holidays.

The Joint Venture anticipate in early January 1998 to commence
deepening the shaft to 102 m. This will allow additional tonnage
to be extracted for further bulk sampling.


L White
CHAIRMAN

Information in this report which relates to geology and
mineralisation has been based on data compiled by GB Barnes who is a
Corporate Member of the Australasian Institute of Mining and
Metallurgy and who has the relevant experience as a Competent Person
as defined in the Australasian Code for Reporting of Identified
Mineral Resources and Ore Reserves in relation to the mineralisation
being reported on. This report accurately reflects the information
compiled by the person.

Donald: The possibility of a Chinese devaluation is the major remaining risk to both the gold market and the Asian curencies and markets. If the Chinese do not devalue, the recent rallies in gold funds and Asian funds will go much further.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/japan_inve_1.html

Starpoint was trading at .19 at the close. I assume this news came out after the market close? Do you know anything more about this Co. ?

Not a day goes by that we don't get another comment to assure us that "China won't devalue" Kind of makes you wonder are they trying to convince themselves or us?

Wednesday January 28, 9:15 pm Eastern Time

Goldman analysts recommend short dollar, long zloty

NEW YORK, Jan 28 ( Reuters ) - Citing improving prospects for fresh fiscal stimulus in Japan and a German economic rebound as well as an expected bulge in the U.S. trade gap in 1998, analysts at Goldman Sachs & Co continued to recommend selling the dollar on rallies against the mark and yen.

Goldman, in its ``Weekly Analyst'' report issued Tuesday, also again recommended a long Polish zloty/short Czech crown trade, claiming improving Polish economic fundamentals pointed toward lower domestic interest rates and a stronger currency.

The report recommended selling dollar/yen at 129 or on a London close below 125.50. Goldman also called for dollar/mark sales on rallies to 1.81 or a two-day close below 1.77.

The report noted Polish central bank president Hanna Gronkiewicz-Waltz earlier this month hinted at future monetary policy easing. Goldman also noted that Poland's trade picture continues to improve.

The analysts reported the Czech crown ``provides a reasonable hedge'' for the zloty.

The report also recommended buying the Norwegian crown as it weakens against the mark, placing stop-loss orders above 4.20 marks for both short- and long-term Norwegian crown positions.

I have just come off the telephone to Mr Lesie White - Chairman of East Coast, and Murray McDonald - MD of Legend.

Quarterly reports will be issued by both companies tomorrow to shareholders and opetion holders.

All recent assays may not be reported by tomorrow, but may be fully reported by end next week.

General comment is that is is early days, but highly promising, " a good year ahead".

Exploration has outlined six zones of mineralisation within the Munni Munni complex:

The upper Munni Munni platinum, the lower Munni platinum ( PGE and gold ) , Central palladium zone, Judy's Reef ( silver,gold,PGE, cobalt, nickel and copper ) , Natealie's Hill and Elizabeth Hill ( disseminated nickel copper ) , and the Elizabeth Hill silver zone.

Now IT IS WORTH WHILE STATING that the adjacent temenents were previously held by Hunter Resource - Eagle Mining and are now owned by Great Central MInes. I would suggest that J Gutnick and E Eshuys of Great Central will take increasing notice of the project. That is, the share price will take off as the exploration status of the project is advanced.

The ground held by Great Central contains an inferred resource of 20 to 30 Mt of 3 g/t+ of Platinum, palladium and gold, with 0.3% Cu and 0.2% nickel. This is contained within one reef horizon at the contact of the major Gabbroic zone and the ULtramafic zone.

If you require all references ti mineralisation at the Munni Munni, email me at gabbro@gold.net.au

Aye, Haggis

I should have said Congo rather than Ghana. I don't know the company but at least its name doesn't end in "X". The political situation in the Congo could be a real problem.

Response to ASX Query re Share Price

PART: A

DATE: 1998/1/15

EAST COAST MINERALS NL 1998-01-15 ASX-SIGNAL-G

HOMEX - Sydney

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
RESPONSE TO ASX QUERY

JOINT VENTURE: East Coast Minerals NL 70%
Legend Mining NL 30%

With reference to your letter of 14/01/1998, we reply as follows:

103 tonnes of ore are presently being treated for bulk testing
purposes to establish the silver content. The concentrate contained
visible coarse silver and some coarse gold which was unexpected.

The tailings of the crushing were assayed and they contained 3,000
grams of silver and 1.3 grams of gold per tonne. The percentage of
the silver content of the 103 tonnes of ore will only be established
when the crushing and separating of same is completed.

We have also sent 13 cores of the latest underground diamond drilling
to the laboratory to be assayed. As soon as any results are
available, they will be announced by the Joint Venture.

In conclusion, we confirm that the Company is in compliance with all
Listing Rules, and in particular Rule 3.1

L White
CHAIRMAN

Comment-- tails are the residue after crushing and extraction,they can be treated in a secondary circut. this is not rare when first trialing for mettalurgy.

I posted here:

On 12/05/97:
Some mention has been made about my theory of "hidden" silver stocks. I have never made mention of any stocks of silver that are being hidden or camouflaged in any way. Rather, many million oz of silver have simply found their way into storage facilities the do not report holdings publicly. This is the "missing" silver of which I suspect exists in sufficient quantities to fulfill any and all demands of delivery. I see no short squeeze on silver. This said, and unequivocally so, let me acknowledge that I could be entirely wrong about this and the next couple weeks will tell.

From 11/24/97
The run up in silver last week was driven primarily by a rumor that George Soros has been buying up silver quietly and would take delivery of 20 - 30 million ounces next week. If this were true, the feared run on COMEX stocks is underway and silver would explode above $6.00.

A great story, that, but one that does little to inspire confidence in the current bull run. On the face of it, the story has all the markings of a bull trap and a sucker play to get the market loaded with longs, then crush them all like the insolent and greedy little bugs they are.

I think I used the term "vicious" to describe the potential for a quick and nasty ( for those of us holding shorts ) run up in silver last week Since COMEX and NYMEX are closed Friday, first delivery notice for the December contract is Wednesday the 10th, a trading day cut short by the holiday schedule. If the squeeze is on, we'll see it by then, if the rally fails, look for another test of the recent lows 4.70 - 4.80.

I'm very suspicious of the warehouse numbers and do not believe they reflect the true amount of silver available for delivery. The Soros story is even less likely; the man wants profits, not silver. Why take delivery instead of profits on some very fat longs? If silver doesn't break out by Wednesday, I'll look to add new shorts.


Today I post:
Details were made public today about the nature of the lawsuit filed by Lovell $ Stewart against trading company Phibro Inc. The suit alleges Republic Bank, J. Aron, and others, "have participated in, or aided, the buying and removal from registration of supplies of silver at COMEX". The suit goes on to allege that J. Aron and "other persons" have made inquiries in Europe about remelting COMEX silver bars in order to make them acceptable for storage in London. Buying and moving silver to non-reported storage has "caused the world visible inventories to decrease dramatically." These machinations alleged to be in consort with other players who, "tacitly or explicitly" joined together with one another and they did purposely reduce the US stocks of visible silver registered at the COMEX and move them to a place where such silver would not be publicly reported, the suit says.

While I feel some vindication of my views on silver before the run up, these views caused me to put in some shorts that got creamed and stopped out on December 10th when silver gapped up 40 cents.

This illustrates how looking at market fundamentals can kill you. Same with charts, or any other silly device we use to try to predict tomorrow. These markets are manipulated, that's what makes 'em fun and profitable. Don't look at only one or two facets of a trade, look at the entire market. My silver shorts made sense at the time and where placed by clients who wanted the trade, and I was right about the supply draw down scam, but these markets will move where the big boys want them to go. I didn't think they had the juice to do it late last year, and I was wrong. I thought the bigger money would slam it down.

Silver is disappearing from the COMEX. Silver is at lowest inventory levels ever but there is no shortage of deliverable silver in the world. That said. Silver will still run up again. The big boys have come to play, and play they will. Just follow the $. Just remember to put in stops along the way, when the fall comes, it will be fast and brutal.

It's simple math. My understanding is that drooy has plans to produce
2.8 million oz. of gold in 1999. If gold goes to $500 per oz. the
company should earn about $350 million that year. Assume a p.e. multiple
of 8 and the capitlization would be 2.8 billion. The present capitalization is about 150 million $. If the gold price goes to
$1,000 the earnings would go to about $1.75 billion. It could easily
go to $200 at a p.e. of 8.

As for the N.A. shares with the low production costs, they won't do
anywhere near as well as the high cost producers because they don't have
the operating leverage. Look at the history. The high cost producers have outperformed the low cost producers in every other gold bull market.
As for the heavily hedged producers they could be ruined by a sharp
upward movement in the price of gold. That's because they won't be
able to cover their big forward sales. ABX is one such stock. I simply
wouldn't own it. It's a horribly managed company.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/germany_de_4.html

Remember the three great lies?

1 ) The check is in the mail.

2 ) I'll respect you in the morning.

3 ) ( Due to the recent 'news' ) Well, let's just say BC wouldn't do that.

With an administration this hell bent on distorting reality to suit their needs, I wouldn't put ANYTHING past them, OR their ability to sell it to the public.

It would seem that the majority of the goldbugs, a good many market analysts, and many logical thinking people are of the opinion that the DOW is about to have a MAJOR "adjustment". Since I wasn't around in 1929 and was not following gold in the late 70's early 80's, I am curious????? When ( not if ) the stock market takes it's major league dump, how are the gold stocks impacted? I would think that if it is a fairly slow process, gold stocks should maintain fairly well. However, if there is a virtual "crash" gold stocks would not be as bouyant, I don't feel that they will be affected at the same rate as others, but anyone have any thoughts, theories, or analysis on their impact? How long before they ( gold stocks ) should begin to recover?

Just curious if it would be advantageous to sellout now and buy back in later close to another bottom. Course, with my luck the only "bottom" I would see is the POG rocket ship as it heads for the stratosphere.

Also, please don't mention $1000.00 per ounce gold. It gets me too excited. I can't get up from the desk with the kids in the room.

Thanks for all the good info you all provide.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/britain_dm_1.html

I think you believe, from reading some of your previous posts, that
simply because the US is today the world' Superior military power
that is going to last for ever... Nothing lasts for ever....As far as the Yen
as you probably Japan is no Korea, it is the 2nd Biggest Economy in the World, and the Biggest CREDITOR, as opposed to the USA the Biggest DEBTOR...Sure the US set up Japan's constitution after their defeat...
not allowed military, or large amounts of Gold, must buy US paper,
BUT that can change and in fact is changing quickly. Hashimoto
began to sell off some US paper, ther is talk of Japan buying Gold etc...

BTW don't you find it just a wee bit coincidental that just as the Yen
and the Japanese markets are showing signs of strength that we
suddenly get news reports of "corruption" in the MOF..I've seen this tyupe of "news reporting" before,I'm of the view that the US role in Japan, what with it's thousands of troops and airbases
has not been limited to said bases...What about "our" corruption?
S&L, bail-out "theft" Illegal Election "contributions" Millions of stock options and yes Golden parachutes for top management Latin Amer Bail-out "theft" etc...."corruption"is everywhere, not just Japan... As I've said here many times " Someone always has to be on top"...and who is "reporting" the news?..

No I think Japan has had it with US domination....you know they can
militarize very quickly, and can probably be a nuclear power in no
time, once they kick out the Yanks that is...After all why should they have to pay for ME Oil with US$ why can't they pay in Yen?

If you believe that the US$ is going much higher then that is contradictory to your other belief that Gold is going higher,anyway the US needs a fairly stable Yen, as Rubin said today this Asia "crisis" is one of the most serious threats the US has ever faced...The FIGHT for
Gold is on ... But of course ALL JMHO.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/moody_s_cu_2.html

your right, there is nothing wrong with taking alot of silver home if you think it is a good investment. Unlike the Hunts there is no manip in the futures mkt just someone takin silver. Or.. Maybe it is bein used. The Court battle will take a couple of years and the silver is outside the jurisdictions of our courts though the supposed manipulators are within. Phibro has called the charges OUTRAGEOUS AND FALSE. The defendants have alot of Lawyers/ GOOD LUCK to the plaintiffs in proving anything.

No, don't know the third. What is it, anyway? So much for cultural literacy.

No, don't know the third. What is it, anyway? So much for cultural literacy.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/s_p_cuts_r_1.html

Are we now on the next plateau, of price movements, is $320 now possible?

Old Gold:

Snowball,

If memory serves me well, during the 1987 "crash" of the DOW ( which mirrored today's situation quite well-overheated stock prices and a Gulf
War ) gold was one of the best performing sectors. I believe this was
pointed out in "Fear, Greed and the End of the Rainbow".

If anyone knows differently, please jump in and correct me, I take
no offense!

Mo in To

ALL - I just reviewed my post of last Saturday night. Many may have missed it because it was past their beddy-byes or because they were elsewise occupied! Also I think that sometimes many people that are just BEGINNING to have their eyes opened often need to have interpretations done as to some of the more complicated issues. IT'S not all that complicated folk's! Everytime some asinine news item becomes important to American citizens ( read - SHEEP ) It seems that the whole world must be subjected to a complete break-down of EVERY little detail and then these details must be discussed and dissected ad nauseum - Because - if we don't know about every single detail ( and then debate it endlessly ) then perhaps someone somewhere somehow will drop the atomic bomb on us and wipe out civilization as we know it - right Glenn? AND of course the President's sexual escapades are paramount to the performance of the world economy and the price of Gold - now aren't they? Anybody recall the O.J. thing? Anybody out there like to watch the re-runs of the O.J. thing? For another two years? Grow up people and stop being pawns of the media machine.

J-Reef lies about 20metere above the rich silver and runs for over 7Kms on ECM/leg ground and has similar values to those you have quoted.

Its probable that some of the shaft material went thru this thus we can expect an update on the values in near future.

It certainly will attract majors

J-Reef lies about 20metere above the rich silver and runs for over 7Kms on ECM/leg ground and has similar values to those you have quoted.

Its probable that some of the shaft material went thru this thus we can expect an update on the values in near future.

It certainly will attract majors

The metals 'ain't' dead until THEY 'say' they are! But, between the silver and the gold, silver is currently behaving weaker than gold. Pay particular attention to ANY numbers at and/or below todays low! As a caveat, one might say that gold is also overbought at this time. Well, sometimes that condition can also go to extremes. It IS currently behaving well in testing support. Just make sure it continues to do so, or else...

Probably just a tad early to further comment on cotton. Watch it also. I also think currencies will generally again be turning by the end of the week.

To All,

Are any of you all familiar with MarWest out of Vancouver. They recently
got a favourable write up in Northern Miner and are to bring in more
drilling results shortly. Of course, they deal in our favourite metal.

Does anyone have any opinions about this outfit? I am toying with the idea of buying some. It closed at $1.10 today ( up from about 93 cents )
The trading symbol is MSR on the Vancouver exchange.

Thanks in advance.

Mo in To

The crash of '87 preceeded the Gulf War. The GW had its beginnings
in 1989, and mostly played out in 1990. What was interesting about it was how the price of gold was brought under control very quickly when it started to rise in response to breaking news.

this may be too obvious, but go check the shift in the U. S. dollar and compare it to the press on Clinton, and the changing views on the case. We're talking major money here.

Countryboy -- You'll find out at the same time the rest of us do. Place your bets.

It was last Saturday morning.

Just a footnote to my last post,

If you don't want to broadcast your opinions on this
company ( for whatever reason ) you can e-mail me
at: maureen.stocker@sympatico.ca

Mo in To

Steve in To,

Thanks for putting me straight.

Mo in To
( but didn't gold sector hold its own during
the 1987 mini-crash?

Prometheus -- Bart would not like it if I posted the 'third' great lie. Besides, this is a public forum on gold and decorum dictates civility, not crudness. Let it suffice to say that the media has covered the subject in depth in the latest BC 'exploit' that didn't take place. Also, I find myself having a strange mixture of sadness and disgust for what passes as 'leadership' material in this country ( US of A ) .

I think in the movie, "The Ten Commandments", Moses said it best. "Oh, woe un to you "... U.S. of A. ( to paraphrase... )

Bart and ALL - I don't believe that any of my posts have ever been 'edited' before but the last humdinger I just made was shortened by about 2/3 rds. A real shame too; it was just about one of the best I'd ever done ( in my NSVHO ) . Took an hour. You lose folks, as I'm too tired to do again and I didn't have a back-up. Must have been a computer glitch. 'Welcome to the Machine' Pink Floyd 19??

S&P is now at a very touchy area; it could easily break UP and maybe make new highs, or break lower from this point. As for going higher, it wouldn't take much to know it. Should it actually make new highs, I would consider it to be the last 'hurrah'! Should it break UP and only near equal old highs, that too would put the writing on the wall in my estimation. If we break down, I could expect to see about 900 on the Mar S&P by/about Feb 9. As always, all caveats apply.

In the 29 crash I think Homestake Mining was the best performing stock. I believe it went up 70 something percent.

Mo- Concerning how the gold market did. The price of gold did very well during the '87 crash ( as it did during the '29 crash ) but I can't tell you offhand how gold mining companies did.

Is someone else familiar with how gold company shares did during the crash?

J. Disney RYO post of 14:16 does not note that the big loss was on write down. Operating they were OK. Kemess cost over 500 million and co cap is 210 million. If Kemess is close to expected the Co. survives and will be the next ABX. They will cover their debt by more than 18 million with Kemess. Over 320 gold everything makes money.

Part of the Sadness and entirely part of my point. SHEEP!

SilverBaron,all: SB - You are probably right -- that the essentials of FV's book will be all over this site. We probably already know 2/3 of what is in it already by our Kitcoaddiction. Spouse was very pleased today though, despite my addictivities.

It is nice to dream, isn't it, that one could be rich enough to afford $8,000/yr for investment expenses! I get grief for buying a computer!

Did you catch the $600/oz equilibrium price quote for gold once the CB's let go on their shorts? That is what I calculated about a year ago, based on the CPI for the last 100 years -- I posted this about 6 months ago, during a conversation with Mike Sheller about gold reaching $1000 or so in 2010+/-5, based on cycles.

I was beginning to think the $600 price was dreaming! This will probably take several years to unfold, and it requires that the deflationary 'scare' to end first. Since gold stocks go up 2x-3x times faster than gold, we should have a tidy 200%-300% profit.

As someone famous once said ( paraphrasing ) 'Whatever a man soweth, so shall he also reap'. What we sow will become very dear in the next two years, even without any inflation.

Undoubtedly Aurator will know the true quote, and who and when.

Dear folks,

Today's Financial Post ( p. 19, 'Asian woes take toll on Australian prices' ) an article from the Financial Times said that Korea is planning to sell more than 100 Tonnes of gold!

This is the first I've heard of this. What's your take on it?

You can e-mail me at: ross@phm.utoronto.ca if you wish.

Mooney: My posts kept getting shorter and shorter, until I realized that if they went to Kitco, they vaporized into the AEther at the first quotation mark! Worth a try!

Looks like a breakout to the upside. How far???? Until the next 'crisis'?

Signing off.

I read that Homestake went from $80 per share in '29 to $450, give or take in '34.
However, given the checks and balances ( manipulations ) in place today that may not be a fair example. I'm not so sure history would ever be allowed to repeat itself. On the other hand, trying to time the dips could be worse than riding it out.

Thanks for all the input.

Gotcha.

Sorry that the U. S. is such a cesspool of sludge in the slurry of world affairs. One of these days, the dollar and gold prices will uncouple from Clinton scandal revelations ( perhaps tomorrow, I certainly wouldn't place any big bets on it at this point ) . If that has occurred already, then the following scandalous bit would be superfluous to our gold discussion:

When the Monica scandal arose, the first day or two the press was full of allegations that she "lied" about having an affair with a teacher while she was in college. After the markets closed today, I heard that these have, in fact, been confirmed, and that Starr's team has gone to Oregon to claim evidence of the same, from the teacher's safe deposit box. This sheds an entirely different light on her credibility.

Sorry. As a national news reporter and commentator, Paul Harvey, stated earlier today at the close of his report, "Perhaps in a few weeks my job will be fun again".

I must say that at least you are attempting to discuss this issue rationally
and without resorting to name calling and personal bashing.
Let's stick to his statement of 450 Gold.. I mean if Gold goes to 1000
Don't you think alot more mines even in NA would then be profitable?
and isn't ABX in great position to aquire said mines, thus increase
it's gold output at market prices? So lets stick to 450.

Having said that, Pls show me on DROOY's own reports the Following:

1. that they will produce 2.6 million ounces and make $350 Million.
2. how many shares are outstanding including all recent shares and otions issued.
3. When have you seen DROOY trade at 10X p/e .$9 1/4 was the highest it traded since 95 , that with Gold say around 400, what makes
you believe that at 450 today with many more shares and options
outstanding it will go higher as D says $240.

All I am going to say is just look at the Kugerrand, it has never traded
with a high premium , neither have any of the SA mining shares ,never.
I recall in the 70's when I owned SA mines, it was not uncommon for
me to receive say $1.00 dividend with the stock trading at about $3.00
Remember this "perception" of SA mines has existed for many many years, and I see nothing in the horizon that will change this,
on the contrary, I see a socialist Gov ready to "grab", 60% of the
black population is under 20 years,. most not employed, Big crime
whites strongly resisting majority changes, etc....
you know the rest... NA shares have always traded with very high p/e ratios, that is the fact. Believe it or not......

To put things in to some kind of perspective. Good night all

No doubt that stable news from White house is Bearish on gold. Negative rumours and an immediate spike.

RJ: When do you think Phibro might dump its silver ( if the charge is true ) back on the mkt? Even a ballpark estimate would be greatly appreciated. With the public and legal spotlight on them, might not their hand be stayed for some time -- years even?

Panda -- Action speaks louder than words. I'll watch the action. I don't watch the DOW particularly, but I might envision a Mar S&P of maybe 1050. Bottom line is that no one really knows what it might do. It also might barely make a new high and then collapse. Let us first see any break UP before counting the 'sheep'! That in and of itself yet needs to be seen. Thanks for the chart posting.

In today's particularly risky environment for gold and silver, I humbly suggest you avoid any gold/silver stocks trading on the Vancouver Stock Exchange...no matter what wonderful news they are claiming.

If there is one stock exchange in which fraud runs rampant, it is the VSE.

Do not be quick to forget Bre-X and stay clear of the infamous VSE!

( However, if you are thinking of investing in this effectively unknown company, I would suggest you take a personal trip to Ghana and inspect the alleged find. It will be worth your while if you plan to invest more than $1000 ) .

Re Korean Gold sales Question.



Where have you been for the past two months. The Koreans, the Thais and the Malaysians all have government programs to collect gold from the public in exchange for their devalued currencies to help pay off the countries debts. Since these are the same people that screwed them in the first place by getting them into this mess it is amazing that the public would now give them their gold. This will do nothing to solve their problems other than make them feel good for a few days but they will be real sorry about six months from now when they need real money. Funny, but I have not heard of any of these same governments selling any of their gold reserves, only the public's gold hmmmmmmmmm !!!.





Forrest

Just a quick little correction: Bre-X was first listed on the Alberta Stock Exchange. Did it ever trade on the VSE?

There are many reasons why I own this stock.
You know what is gonna happen if POG rises to
$350+ and completely operational Kemess is
there...There also some serious weaknesses,
of course.

Of course, once again, we got this "IF" word.

I still see some hope for RYO.

forum, Show of Hands please

here is some interesting reading------


http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/russia.htm

relative to iraq and russia......and more....

By the way, it would be nice if RYO
finds 15-20 mln.oz. deposit somewhere
around Kemes, isn't it? Why not?

Penny stock heaven...and probably an even more dangerous exchange than the VSE.

here is a senate report on the us projections for war in
the middle east.......they ( israel & arabs ) are running behind
their projected schedule by 1 month!



http://www.aci.net/kalliste/mewar.htm

Folks

Snowball, Mo in To, tricky: All you ever wanted to know about what gold stocks did in the Great Stock Crashes of 1929-1935 and 1973/74... and then some. Detailed report in the Editorial section at.... you know where {:- ) )

Forrest- That's exactly it. They must be paying these people a lot less than the market value for their gold if they're planning to immediately sell it and make enough to significantly reduce their debt problems.

Just what are they paying these people, given that they're collecting everything- non-assayed gold, jewelry &tc.? The stuff will have to be refined & assayed whether they sell it or add it to their reserves.

Korea has always had inadequate gold reserves. I thought they were just trying to bring their reserves up to snuff. Are they perhaps planning on leasing their newfound gold? That would be the ultimate ripoff, since they would never get it back.

Given the huge price increases for gold in Won and other Asian currencies, I can't see how long the public will keep turning in their gold, when it becomes obvious they could make huge paper profits by hanging on to it.

Just some thoughts & questions

Midas -- I believe you might sleep easier at night if you had 15-20% invested somehow in the metals; That proportion being quickly changeable. To REALLY sleep easier, buy the physical and bury it. Never keep ALL your eggs in one paper basket, least the bottom of the basket get a bit 'damp' from Tsunamis and such.

another from a regular------dow 8000


http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/dow8000b.htm

vince foster? read on-------and follow links.....


http://www.aci.net/kalliste/part7.htm

Midas,

I wouldn't put all in gold for child's college fund but if there were more than 5 years to start I would certainly have no problem putting 5 % - 15 % in gold related investments. I am talking about coins or bullion, high quality mines that can survive whatever develops in the inflation/deflation scenario. Also, there are some decent convertible bonds and preferreds that might be appropriate as hedges for shorter time horizons. What do you think?

and the last-------for now...........for you.....



http://www.fas.org/2000/conspiracy_commerce.htm

not knowledgeable about this

My Dear Brother John,

Today I prayed for RYO in our local
church, the nearest one I could find -
- I believe it was Lutheran Church.
I also donated $20. It should work.
____________________________________

Here is Russian annecdote for you:

NEW RUSSIAN ( I think you might know
what it means ) walks into the church
and asks the prist:

"Father, if I donate 1,000.000 bucks
to your church, am I going to reside
in the Heavens?"

Prist thinks for a moment and then says:

"I can not promise this to you, my son,
but let's try..."
_______________________________________

Your Praying Brother Oris.

What happened? The 24 hour gold chart shows the high for the day to be $303/oz. Did I dream today's rally?

missing-linker---

go here to affirm your dream.......


http://www.digisys.net/futures/chart/fstwin21.gif

How does this work ?

Does anyone know what POG is currently at????

TIA

Goodnight, and thank you all. Especially you, Bart, for creating this great forum, and you, Vronsky, for pointing me to it when I was visiting your site a couple of months ago.

here is a food for thought that needs to be posted
at least once per month......from the fin who shares....
copy and paste--------


http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980110.044032.sharefine.htm

Goodnight all.