I am not sure of the dollar figure the government is paying but you can bet it is less than the market value and they are not getting paid for 30 days and it is in the form of a government bond, worthless, truly amazing, mind you not all Koreans are stupid and most will hold onto their gold.
Forrest

i believe the american public has finally begun to wake from its slumber.

Midas,

Please do not take this as specific investment advice but here are a couple of examples of gold related paper. Hecla Mining has a convertible preferred issue that can be converted at the option of the holder into 3.215 shares of Hecla common. Under current circumstances this would not make sense because the common stock is so depressed. While you wait, however, you get about a 7.5 % return on investment. The stock trades a about $46 a share and can be called for conversion by the company at a price of $52.10 after 6/30/98, not very likely in the near term. If gold prices really take off this old line mining outfit might glitter once again and conversion might not be so terrible. Agnico-Eagle mines, a Canadian mine, has a convertible bond that matures in 2004 and at the current price has a yield to maturity of about 12 %. Each bond can be converted into 55.762 shares of common stock or is callable by the company at $890 per bond ( it was issued at a discount ) . At aprice of about $620 per bond, if they call it soon, ( won't happen ) the return is quite acceptable. As long as the company doesn't default, the gold price will eventually go up from market forces or will be raised by governments as a means to arrest a devastating deflation. Don't know what your situation is but you would be best served to talk to a knowledgable broker before buying into this kind of investment. Also, if you don't want to get too cute, there is nothing wrong with buying into some of the gold mutual funds or just buy some bullion coins. Good luck.

Does anyone know why there was such a large discrepancy between Kitco's 24 hour spot gold chart and CNBC's spot gold price for the NY close?

Kitco at $302.80 and CNBC at $305.95. There always seems to be minor differences, but never anything as large $3.15.

Thanks for the link to the neat chart. Volatility since the beginning of the double bounce off $280 seems much higher than the last four months.

It seems that getting valid financial and metals prices off the net is trickier lately. Which site do you believe? Long term validation gives some sites greater credibility but they are all wrong sometimes.

Please Vronsky Could you please Desist from posting your Gold scenarios for at least a few months as Gold has a monster move to the the upside and you are my worst indicator ---Get It --- Ted Are You Banned.---Away to buy Gold on Dips.

As described in the news article below, Ramadan ends today. Prayer and meditation are over in the Arab world and "Holy action" is to be expected.

Unfortunately, the smell of war is in the air and, in all likelihood, a Mid-East confrontation will not be limited to Iraq this time around. Look for Libya to enter the fray ( almost certain ) . If there is a battle and it is protracted and messy for any reason, then a real possibility exists that other Arab nations may pull the plug on oil supplies to America. Although the Arabs are generally factionalized, they share one thing in common...a thing that is fast becoming epidemic around the world today: general detestation of rich, fat Americans. Having a clear-cut scapegoat does remarkable things in uniting a non-cohesive group.

In any case, proxy purchases of military arms ( via sales of gold and oil )
should be completed now and so, there should be little downside risk in the prices of these two commodities from this point on. As I have stated repeatedly these past few weeks ( to the derision of others on this forum ) , anybody shorting gold today in this extremely dangerous international climate is either a lunatic or has balls of steel...I don't know which.

KHALEEJ TIMES
January 28, 1998

Eid Al Fitr tomorrow

EID Al Fitr will be celebrated tomorrow as the Shawwal moon was not sighted in the UAE or any other Gulf country yesterday.

This was announced in Abu Dhabi last night by the UAE moon-sighting committee headed by Minister of Justice, Islamic Affairs and Auqaf
Mohammed Nakhira Al Dhahiri.

The committee said today will be the 30th, the last day of Ramadan.

Also in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Egypt, Jordan, Libya and Yemen, Eid Al Fitr will be celebrated tomorrrow.

Meanwhile, Mr Nakhira and the members of the committee extended Eid greetings to the President, His Highness Shaikh Zayed bin Sultan Al
Nahyan, His Highness Shaikh Maktoum bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, Their
Highnesses Members of the Supreme Council and Rulers of the emirates, and Muslims in the UAE and other parts of the world.

The Ministry of Information and Culture also extended greetings to Shaikh Zayed, Shaikh Maktoum, Rulers of the emirates and people of the
country. - Wam

DEBT INTEREST PRIOR YEARS DEBT
FISCAL YEAR 1988 $214,145,028,847.73 $2,350,276,890,953.00
FISCAL YEAR 1989 $240,863,231,535.71 $2,602,337,712,041.16
FISCAL YEAR 1990 $264,852,544,615.90 $2,857,430,960,187.32
FISCAL YEAR 1991 $286,021,921,181.04 $3,233,313,451,777.25
FISCAL YEAR 1992 $292,361,073,070.74 $3,665,303,351,697.03
FISCAL YEAR 1993 $292,502,219,484.25 $4,064,620,655,521.66
FISCAL YEAR 1994 $296,277,764,246.26 $4,411,488,883,139.38
FISCAL YEAR 1995 $332,413,555,030.62 $4,692,749,910,013.32
FISCAL YEAR 1996 $343,955,076,695.15 $4,973,982,900,709.39
FISCAL YEAR 1997 $355,795,834,214.66 $5,224,810,939,135.73

Thanks baby boomers.

Gen X

Haggis. Barb Hughes, Nick@C

Thanks for your responses, not the URL I had in mind, but it will do just fine, I have stopped thrumming and biting. My fingers thank you too!

Forrest Gump /All

Anyone heard update tonnage on Korea and Thai gold *donations*? There was a big fanfare in the first week, 17 tons ( ? ) how much has now been collected. The absence of news could suggest another chimera? How does this square with Vronskys post earlier of a new Korean derivative gold market?

BTW Forrest, it is too easy to look upon what is happening in Korea with round eyes. In Korea, respect for ones ancestors and ones past is still paramount, allegiance to the state and belief in the common good take preference to individual rights. These are two ready reasons why Koreans will give some, but not all their gold to their governments. I believe those who do not give all their gold will feel shame and prefer not to discuss this matter, at least, for now...The fact will certainly be kept hidden, but I may be corrected on these.matters...

Re Midas's question--I have invested in bullion for my new pups obedience school. They are part Golden Retriever, after all.

Vronsky =Gold Down ---Please Stay Away

Talk to Hosimoto and find out how he's doing selling US T-bonds and buying gold. Very well I think, you might give it a try.

Methinks, Mr. Link, the most comical image conjured
is the beating of the turf at a cemetery.

What happening to the Australian dollar today ??

There is no that doubt there is a lot of corruption in the U.S. & other western economies, but nothing that compares with Japan. The big advantage that the U.S. has is the relative transparency in the mkts.

How many years have the Japanese been trying to deal with their banking & other problems & they just keep getting worse? A perfect example is the rapidity with which the U.S. dealt with the S&L crisis & fixed it. I wish them luck, but as I've stated before because of many reasons, especially demographics which is tha main reason for their proclivity to save & not consume,they are in a real financial quagmire with no resolution in sight. And now the crisis in asia makes their recovery that much more problematic. How are they going to compete against Korea & those other Countries with such a strong Yen?

BTW, I never stated that I expected AU to go to the moon. I just look for trading opportunities & think we will be lucky to get over 320 for any length of time in 98. If I'm wrong I'll still do O.K., but not as well as you people who are much more positive than me.

I heard some so-called expert forex trader trying to get suckers to invest in buying Dollar/Mark. He says its going to 1:2. In a pigs eye...

.

You ask how are the Japanese going to compete vs korea. You must
remember Japan is ,was , will be a huge investor in korea and all over
Asia. As far as no Japanese consumers, they don't need them, just look at the Billions of Indian, Chineese, Indonesians etc...in all Asia, ME,
even Europe, and Africa. Japan is not restricted to the US there are plenty of consumers world wide remember the key is the world trading system which is and has been based on trade in US$, once that trading system is challenged and new trading blocks and currencies ( GOLD ) emerge, It's a whole new "game".....ALL of course JMHO

Try http://www.stockhouse.com/database/news.cfm?Autonumber=46526 I got this off of stockhouse.com/

Not trying to provoke, simply don't understand why you have such a low opinion of japanese, just because their culture is different of your own does not make them inferior, they are not as materialistic as westerners.
To speak on a nation, they are one who were defeated in the second world war, and are 2nd largest economy. Show me victors of the war who have done better in such a short time span. U.S. copied there manufacturing techniques after U.S. was getting but kick in production.

Just because someone does not have the same wants as you, does not make them ignorant, small minded, or feeble. Infact it could be said that of person who wants everything, ( material ) yet ends up with nothing ( mental )

As for coruption, take off your blinders, I would suggest that their still learning that from us. Honor is a big thing their, more apt to kill themselves out of shame, not lie blantently.

We shall soon see what culture holds up better under economic stresses.

CNN business news did a small piece on the silver lawsuit. They basically stated what has already been posted here with one interesting exception. They quoted Phibro as stating, and I paraphrase here, that they deny the allegations, claiming that they have purchased no silver on the Comex.

Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm70.htm

The grounds for the silver lawsuit are overtly preposterous...beyond ludicrous. Even the infamous Hunt brothers never would have resorted to such a stupid, unwieldy scam.

I seriously wonder if there is one shred of hard copy evidence attesting to the alleged "malfeasance" by Philbro. Based upon my readings, all the allegations are based upon heresay ( and sour grapes ) . Golden Harvest in Canada had a great spec history in commodities but seems to have lost a bundle shorting Ag...tough, isn't it?

If allegations are thrown out of court, then there will be at least a .70-1.00 same-day burst in silver...guaranteed!

For Brother Oris ( and ROR and DEJ )
I was overjoyed to receive your message and to hear
of your newfound piety. Your return to the fold of
Al'lah may have been just in time. For he is merciful.
La elaha El'la al'lah - there is no god but al'lah and
he is great Al'lah O akbar.
I trust now that your prayer WILL be answered ( in view
of the $20 particularly ) and 10 million oz of new
reserves will be found in the frozen wastes of kemess.
If al'lah is willing Enshal'lah - That will bring the
NEW reserves of ryo to 15 MILLION oz. Divide by
139 million shares and we have 0.1 oz per share.
versus ABX 0.25 oz per share. Fortuitous as abx sells
at 20 $ - so you thus believe ryo would rise to 20/2.5= $8.
But of course we have the problem of the capital
required to develope the field. I do not concern
myself with the cost of production for although The
last 9 months figures display a satanic cost of ( i
forget was it $US 460/oz ) ROR has assured me that these
will quickly fall to $320 average cost and that all
the difference is accounted for by extraordinary
items. Although The 320 number is STILL terribly
high I trust it will be reduced to practically nothing
by the high productivity and outstanding management so
common in NA.
I expect to see this good fortune expressed in RYO's
results for the december quarter which should soon be
released. I will weep with joy to see these figures. In
the meantime, I will check the history of RYO to see if
extraordinary items are a way of life with them ( as I
find to be the case in a few NA mining companies ) .
Dear brothers - I never dared to imply that your
investments in RYO were ill advised. It was simply that
I was led astray by my foolish numbers, and grew
worried for the well being of your investments. Forgive
me. I never meant to concern you.
I was worried about the Dwarf Zebediyah - alone at
night in the desert. But he keens and giggles and plays
happily now outside my tent. Ugly as the poor wretch is, he
still provides company in this lonely desert as I now
approach the Empty Quarter. I gave him scraps from my humble
meal wrapped in newsprint from the paper I bought in Dam'man.
He stares at it now in the morning haze on the desert,
and he pretends to be a great banker, but lo - he holds the
paper upside down. How Bizarre. I shake with mirth.
Al'lah is indeed great. al'lah O akbar

During the inquiry into the Hunt case it was mooted that Bunker transfered all his physically held silver into his wife HELLEN'S account.
When asked where the physical silver was stashed, Bunker stated that they could go to HELL'en Hunt.

In this mornings New Tork Times
Deutsche Bank AG sets aside $777 million for bad asian loans.



http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/financial/asia-deutsche-bank.html

Crusty
The most extraordinary feature or RYO must be the CEO
Margaret Witte, 43, is the best-paid chief
executive of any publicly owned company in Washington state, according to a list in the
latest issue of Washington CEO magazine.

As CEO of Kirkland-based Royal Oak Mines, she earns a cool $1.72 million a year.

Not only that. Witte -- whose company reported a loss of $37.63 million in the second
quarter -- earns more than Boeing CEO Phil Condit and owns stock in her company worth
more than Condit's stake in Boeing.

Witte's annual earnings also top those of Microsoft's Bill Gates and Starbucks' Howard
Schultz -- but her stock ownership comes nowhere near theirs in value.

Backgammon. I should have know. I look forward to playing this royal game with you as the sun sets, at any location on earth we are fortunate to share..

go gold...

away



Have you seen the ( large ) Pennant formation in OJ? It has been ( closing ) sideways this whole week. Have you taken profits?? It will breakout and soooooon, maybe tomorrow. Which way?? This game is exciting. The GOLDen concentrate...and if I were to concentrate long enough I would say, up, up, and.....

AWAY!!



and then I'll 'bail'...taking the last parachute with me

Dollar/Mark
Goldman Sachs has an advisory out.
I lost the address - may be worth looking for.

HighRise

Did you go and git yerself kicked offa kitco?? Git back here, NOW!

away

callingallcars

G'day all. Please skip this post as it is being made 'under the influence' of some hard celebrating. Just go on to the next one!!!

Well didn't our little Aussie golds shine today!!! I have been tradin' my buns off and am cellar-brating a 6% rise in you know what shares to make 15 % in three days. If you had the right ones--double that. Brag-time folks. On the 26th Jan. we were talkin about gold shares and I was persuaded to mention a junior or two for me Kitco mates ( with a bit of arm twisting ) and I did drop a little hint about Laverton Gold. Of course I ain't so dumb as to mention something here unless I've ALREADY bought heaps myself. George Soros might be lurking. Well happy campers, those little beauties ( LVG ) have doubled in price in four days--sooooooooooo, seeing as how I never saw a profit I didn't like, I sold half and have a free ride on the balance. Also sold half of all my other gold shares as I just couldn't help myself with all that $$$ staring me in the face. Now if you have read this far don't blame me as I am slightly inebriated and you have been warned. I guess besides bragging--the point I have to make is DON'T GET TOO GREEDY!!!!!!!!!! This philosophy has kept me in trading for many years!! I know and you know that gold is going much higher and all Kitcoites are gonna be squillionaires ( except for Ted--who will be dripped to death ) --so accept a little humility and accept being only a lousy millionaire. If gold skyrockets--I shall not regret my lost opportunity. If gold tanks ( again ) I shall say--@#^%$@#**--glad I sold them dogs. Now the only reason I am letting you all off the hook is that my beer is empty and I've gotta go to the fridge--so will post this. GO Au.!!!!!

G'day . Whateryoudoinupthistimeofday??? I hoped you kicked ass on the markets, today, mate. You are one helluva good trader and I am lookin' forward to the day we meet. Will buy beer company shares in America first.

Carful guys..gold is NOT going to skyrocket without fierce resistance, stakes are too high.

Besides, GM reported 6.4 bil US$ net profits 1997, more than half of it from domestic market.

Ford reported 6.9 bil US$, same distribution, all regional units in the green.

Clinton also announced surplus flow to state budget. ( hats old news already : )

Don't know what your doing..I've sold 1/3 and will sell another between 310-320.

Geb

Jeeeeeez-- I'm sorry Bart. I've driven everyone away. Anyone want my honest opinion??? My charts say there are two possibilites. My charts do not accept that the bottom is not in. Possibility N.1=double bottom in gold--up from here. Possibility N.2=head and shoulders bottom in gold and we still have to form the right shoulder -- down in the low 280's. There ain't no other possibility!!!Anyone wanna dispute these possies--put up yer dukes!!!

GOLD IS A POLITICAL METAL !!!
READ CHEROKEE'S POSTS TODAY.

I am always hearing wild ( too good to be true ) numbers flying around about the RSA golds ( esp. DROOY ) , and I'd like to take a look at things first-hand, if you would kindly direct me to where I might do so. A post of yours on the subject, covering maybe the cash costs, earnings, shares, options, and reserves of Durban and Harmony, would suffice. I have previously enjoyed your posts for their straightforward content, and "from the hip" style, yet lately they wax ( no, drip ) with arabian eloquence. Where hidden is the Disney of old?

First notice day and Ramadan occur on the morrow. Methinks the game is afoot when the locals attempt to run the stops.

cherokee-----re your Jan 28th 23:56.

I never trust anyone who doesn't know the difference between 'your' and 'you're'.

Antipodean Anglosnob--Nick.

Maybe you can help. There has been no news here that I can find about the meeting w/Clinton after Netanyahu ( spelling ) left the States. I believe you to be correct re:gold. Nasty things are fomenting with a Middle East "incedent" to occur. Any thoughts?

AURATOR: Royal Oak is a one woman show and Peggy maintains a supportive cast to make it stays that way ( ie like hiring a chief operating officer with a background in human resources to run a mining company ) . Her ransom salary is a good example of the axiom that you do not always get what you pay for. She has a reputation in the street of never having found an operating performance promise she can keep, and her constant predictions that Royal Oak stock is going higher has always been followed by lower prices. Her undergarments of financial acumen have been hung out to dry for all to see by forced liquidation of over one million shares of her stock in the company at the stock lows due to margin calls. To be sure Royal Oak is always good for a laugh, like making a major announcement that it has received consent of its bond holders for additional financing only to retract the announcement a few hours later as being premature with the release apparently authorized by a mysterious

AURATOR: Royal Oak is a one woman show and Peggy maintains a supportive cast to make it stays that way ( ie like hiring a chief operating officer with a background in human resources to run a mining company ) . Her ransom salary is a good example of the axiom that you do not always get what you pay for. She has a reputation in the street of never having found an operating performance promise she can keep, and her constant predictions that Royal Oak stock is going higher has always been followed by lower prices. Her undergarments of financial acumen have been hung out to dry for all to see by forced liquidation of over one million shares of her stock in the company at the stock lows due to margin calls. To be sure Royal Oak is always good for a laugh, like making a major announcement that it has received consent of its bond holders for additional financing only to retract the announcement a few hours later as being premature with the release apparently authorized by a mysterious

Ramadan is finished, 1998 starts now.
They keep us busy with Zippergate
while the next war is starting.

Read Cherokee today
he is wonderful.
Finnnnnally, he is posting like me,
God bless him.

So far, my predictions in Dec were correct
GOLD BOTTOMED AT 280.
And I am VERY SAD about what will happen in 1998.

Since I returned from vacation
I don't see ANOTHER, I miss him.

To be sure Royal Oak is always good for a laugh, like making a major announcement that it has received consent of its bond holders for additional financing only to retract the announcement a few hours later as being premature with the release apparently authorized by a mysterious "Peter Chau President" ( presumably an alias for Margaret Witte ) . Nevertheless, to be sure, she has huevos, albeit somewhat misplaced.

PS Thanks for the prior comment on the Beagle and Pony show.

Oops, wrong key. ZIVA , thank you. Read cherokee. He is informed.

http://www.jpost.co.il/News/Article-0.html

http://www.arabia.com/star/960808/JO1.html

http://www.jpost.co.il/News/Article-5.html

http://www.jpost.co.il/News/Article-6.html

Do not go to this URL
http://www.FIRSTevidence.org/

More problems for the dollar?


Global Intelligence Update
Red Alert
January 29, 1998

Japan and Russia Seek Closer Military Cooperation

Japan and Russia are moving ahead rapidly with plans for increased military
cooperation that were outlined during a November, 1997, summit between
Russian President Boris Yeltsin and Japanese Prime Minister Ryutaro
Hashimoto. Masahiro Akiyama, Deputy Head of the Japanese National Defense
Agency, in Russia this week for a series of meetings with top level Russian
defense officials, announced on Wednesday that Japan would reduce its
military forces on Hokkaido by over 20 percent. Russian Defense Minister
Igor Sergeyev in turn vowed to further reduce Russia's military presence in
the Kurile Islands. According to the Russian Defense Ministry, forces on
the Kuriles have already been cut by over half.

During closed door talks in Moscow, Akiyama, Sergeyev, Admiral Vladimir
Kuroyedov, Commander in Chief of the Russian Navy, and Leonid Ivashov, Head
of the Defense Ministry's Chief Department for International Military
Cooperation, discussed issues of security in Northeast Asia and prospects
for closer Russo-Japanese defense cooperation in the Far East. Akiyama
announced that he regarded the meetings as a major success. He stated that
Tokyo was interested in military-technological cooperation with Russia, bu
was being held back by Japan's self-imposed restrictions on the transfer of
military technology. Akiyama proceeded to discount those restrictions,
stating, "The world is changing, however, and I hope that such cooperation
will be possible in the future."

Akiyama's visit is but the first in a string of military exchanges
scheduled for this year. Japanese military pilots will travel to Russia in
February to train to fly Sukhoi Su-27 fighters. Working groups from the
Russian Navy and the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Forces ( JMSDF ) are
scheduled to meet in March to coordinate future contacts and joint naval
maneuvers. The Commander of Russia's Pacific Fleet, Mikhail Zakharenko,
will meet in April with the JMSDF Chief of Staff. The Head of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff of the Japanese National Defense Agency, Admiral Kazui
Natsukawa, will visit Moscow in May, and the Head of the Russian Armed
Forces General Staff, Anatolii Kvashnin, will make a return visit to Japan
several months thereafter. In a move demonstrating that current pragmatic
reality has vanquished memories of 1905, Kuroyedov invited a ship of the
JMSDF to participate in celebrations of Russian Navy Day in July.

Russo-Japanese relations are surging ahead along non-military fronts as
well. Russian Foreign Ministry official Alexander Losyukov announced on
Monday that an agreement on Japanese fishing rights around the Kuriles
would be signed in a matter of days. Japan's Michinoku Bank, which
specializes in financing trade between Japan and Russia's Far East, will
open a Moscow branch in June, making it the first fully Japanese-owned bank
with offices in Russia. Russian cabinet minister Irina Khakamada on
January 22 called on Japan to assist in bolstering small and mid-sized
Russian businesses. Finally, Japanese and Russian officials are meeting
this week in Moscow to discuss joint exploitation of Russia's Siberian
natural gas reserves.

That Japan and Russia are rushing into each other's arms is not surprising.
Both are feeling intense pressure from the same source--the United States.
Confident, at least for the time being, in the Soviet Union's collapse,
Washington no longer sees the need to suffer economic hardship from Japan
in exchange for Pacific containment of Russia. The U.S. has lost interest
in Vladivostok, and so is free to deal with Japan as it would any other
economic competitor. Japan, which held a special relationship with the
United States for 40 years, now feels maltreated. Russia, fractured and
driven back from Europe, is now turning its attentions East--first to China
and now to Japan. We do not believe that Japan is merely signaling to
Washington a desire for special favors. Tokyo is attempting to wrest
itself, and the Western Pacific, away from Washington's sway. For now,
this means a closer relationship with Russia and perhaps China. What
happens when Russia, Japan, and China each try to assert leadership of this
triumvirate and dominance of East Asia, we will have to wait and see.

___________________________________________________

Date: Thu Jan 29 1998 04:26
Ersel ( @ ZIVA.. ) ID#228283:

Maybe you can help. There has been no news here that I can find about the
meeting w/Clinton after Netanyahu ( spelling ) left the States. I believe you
to be correct re:gold. Nasty things are fomenting with a Middle East
"incedent" to occur. Any thoughts?
***************
***************
http://www.jpost.co.il/News/Article-6.html
http://www.arabia.com/star/960808/JO1.html
http://www.jpost.co.il/News/Article-5.html
http://www.jpost.co.il/News/Article-0.html

DO NOT GO TO THIS URL:
http://www.FIRSTevidence.org/

You man must be told to stop watching Up in Smoke

James Brown arrested again
Copyright  1998 Nando.net
Copyright  1998 The Associated Press

AIKEN, S.C. ( January 28, 1998 11:08 a.m. EST http://www.nando.net ) -- Soul singer James Brown is in trouble again, this time on gun and marijuana charges.

Less than a week after leaving a hospital where his agent said he was treated for an addiction to painkillers, Brown surrendered Tuesday and was charged with marijuana possession and unlawful use of a firearm.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/emu_g7_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/focus_mexi_1.html

Silver Prices Lose Ground On Price-Fixing Allegations

By BETSY DOWLING and NICHOLAS ELLIOTT

Dow Jones Newswires

NEW YORK -- A lawsuit was filed, as expected, over last year's spike in
silver-futures prices.

The suit, which was filed in U.S. District Court in New York and seeks class-action status, alleges that Phibro -- the commodities-trading arm of Salomon Smith Barney Inc. -- and 10 other unnamed defendants, acted to
manipulate silver prices higher during the rally last year.

News of the suit, which has been anticipated for some weeks, pushed
down silver futures at the Comex division of the New York Mercantile
Exchange. The March contract fell five cents to $6.053 a troy ounce, although it recovered from a loss of 28.5 cents at midsession.

The suit is on behalf of Kerry Seale, a citizen of British Columbia and the sole proprietor of a company called Golden Harvest Co. It was filed by Christopher Lovell of the Lovell & Stewart law firm in New York.

Phibro, through its general counsel Mike Young, rejected the allegations of price manipulation in the suit as "egregious." It denied removing silver from Comex warehouses in the past 18 months and moving it to England or elsewhere, and denied acting in concert with other market participants. The company also said it is "considering our own lawsuits
against the persons behind these unfounded allegations."

Golden Harvest's suit claims that Phibro and the other defendants forced Comex silver futures up to "artificially high levels" in the second half of last year through moving silver from Comex warehouses to "nonreporting black hole locations" in England and elsewhere.

The suit says some trades by the defendants were carried out through
Republic National Bank of New York, and it says J.P. Morgan and Credit Suisse held silver for the defendants in London. None of the banks are listed as defendants in the suit, and there's no claim they were involved in market manipulation. J.P. Morgan and Republic refused comment, while no spokesman was available at Credit Suisse.

Comex silver stocks fell by 90 million ounces between late May and the end of 1997. To support the case that price manipulation occurred, the suit also points to an "unprecedented" divergence between silver prices and copper and gold prices.

Such claims about artificially high silver prices have been keenly debated since last December, when prices rallied sharply, hitting an eight-and-a-half year high of $6.378 an ounce during intraday trading on Dec. 24.

Some analysts argue that the rise in silver prices was a reflection of tight supplies and solid demand. Among those is Jeffrey Christian, managing director of New York consulting firm CPM Group. "I think it [the action] is garbage and at the end of the day it will be a nonevent," Mr. Christian said.

Timothy Porter, commodities analyst at Refco Inc. in New York, said the news of the lawsuit was unlikely to weigh on the market for long. "The fundamentals alone will keep prices propped up pretty well," Mr. Porter said.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/canadian_b_1.html

Q - do the local Asians get paid in local currency or US$ ? I guess local currency, hence gold will be acquired relatively cheaply.

Donald__A ( After the EMU what happens to the IMF & SDR? ) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980128/emu_g7_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/korea_bank_2.html

How many NS$ ( New Soros Dollars ) does it take to buy a good suit?

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/indonesia__1.html

For My brother Winston -
You know me from the past my brother. But men change..
only Al'lah remains constant. In my mind, I have returned
to the desert that extends from The Rub Al Khali north
to Bagdad and Damascus. I have come here to improve my
manners which I feel have roughened in the West and
to further my studies of the Use of Numbers to assist my
thinking. Mathematics simplifies and clarifies. I see that
many in the Kitco clan prefer to impose their opinions
on others through the use of excessive verbiage or
even abuse. I too have fallen prey to that Western ill.
No more will I shoot from the hip, as you say. My
William Bonney days are past ( my reflexes have slowed
and my eyesight dimmed ) .
The desert has delights - In Al Khobar I ate well of
the desert prickly pear which is well known to improve
male performance. I took a dozen boxes along with me
for I travel now South to the Slave markets of Musqat,
Where I understand a new consignment of young
Circassian women are on offer. I wish to spend a small
portion of my profits on Durban deep which have doubled
in price in a short time. It is not that I am a voluptuary,
dear brother, but man was not born to live alone. This
mad smelly dwarf Zebediyah that trails me is amusing
of course, but in the long run he offers cold comfort.
You ask for information on durban deep - The
new company has 39 million shares. I heard zebediyah
bellow about dilution by options, but I think the
striking price is at best 40 rands or perhaps even 60,
im not sure. Since we are only around 15 or so rands now
I would hardly worry about that.
The reserves of the group are 449 million tons of
underground ore at a grade of 7.8 gm/ton, and 116 million
tons of surface ore at 0.6 gm/ton. This calculates to be
an astonishing 118 million oz of gold reserves. 118/38 =
3 oz/share which when compared with royal oak or mighty
ABX makes one shake with amazement. The costs however
are high - I had thought they were in the region of
350 $/oz. But I think they may be restructuring to
reduce costs, enshal'lah.
I expect their results shortly, and I will humbly
provide the information when it falls into my hands.
I surely would not suggest anyone purchase a stock
in South Africa. Although the country has a fine
infrastructure, wild beasts and unfriendly natives
abound, and one must always be watchful.
Peace effimdim, I move on to musqat, enshal'lah
Al'lah O akbar

Gold now off just $1.10. Not bad after yesterday's big jump.

Well, I guess the collapse is over for a while...now to get on with getting Gold and Silver to move UP....stock markets steady to up around the world...go gold ... go silver...

FYI story at : http://www.yahoo.co.uk/headlines/980129/financial/886075380-0000016725.html

James Brown is being tortured by an illegal "double standard" imposed on him by record company elitist with strong ties to the justice department. The word I get is that....Wayne Newton, a jealous has-been, is behind this insidious plot.

Besides that, any self-respecting goldbug never leaves the house without a heater and a couple of joints ( or a half-pint for some ) . The major labels will stop at nothing to destroy this maverick super stud soul-singer. Stand back!!!...let the man get dooowwwwnnnn! It's the Shaft!

What the hell are you doing up at 4:25....what medicine are you taking?

if, in fact, he is related to James Brown. I believe that JB could have been one of my fathers. I look a lot like him, except the nose.

And as always...Go Goldbugs....T#1 ....I'm sending the cops to your place to check on you, brother....cheeze it, baby.

BUY MORE GOLD! EAT MORE BEEF! BURN MORE GASOLINE!

EB: yes I have....and I'm right in there with you. Go Gold Go Golden

Did you recently sustain a severe blow to your head at a cricket match? My God man, where's that Southern Baptist upbringing? You need to get back to your roots...come home, son.

Scandal In South Africa
It saddens my heart to report that FW DEKLerk not to
be outdone by the US Leader Clinton Pasha, has also
admitted to an extramarital affair.
I will comment no furthur on this matter as I must
hurry to Musqat. The circassian girls are plump and
long limbed.
I long for one now.
Yallah zebediyah.
Al'lah O akbar

Unions use the minimum wage as a gauge for wage increases. When wages rise so does prices.

Per Chinese culture the Year of the Tiger which greets us today every 12th year is synonymous with CHANGE and STRENGTH. Indeed it was so the last Year of the Tiger - 1986.

The dawn of the last Year of the Tiger saw a low in the price of Chuk Kam ( GOLD ) of $330 per troy ounce. It heralded a dramatic reversal in the price trend of precious yellow... for during the next two years the Midas metal soared relentlessly to a high or $502, reached in December 1987. An increase of over 52%.

Historically, gold and silver stocks as a group appreciate 3-4 TIMES GREATER than the percent increase in the value of bullion. Should history repeat, we are talking an increased XAU value of 156% to 240% - POSSIBLY BEFORE THE MILLENNIUM. And one would expect many individual gold and silver stocks to zoom far more.

The above scenario would mirror the STRENGTH characteristic of the Year of the Tiger. About the CHANGE? Well, we are all watching IT as I speak... of course I am referring to the dramatic economic, financial and monetary CHANGE sweeping through all Asia. The resulting domino Effect is currently extending to distant shores... for example, most industrialized nations reducing GNP growth estimates for 1998, Deutsche Bank ( Germanys largest ) talking about restructuring due to its horrendous losses incurred in its Asian Loan Portfolio, Switzerlands UBS brought to humble take-over by Swiss Bank Corp. due to its Korean Adventures, the Mexican Peso on the verge of another massive devaluation, China daily denying the possibility of a 25%-40% devaluation, and ad nauseam. YES, we are all undergoing draconian CHANGE, and IN SPADES!

Interestingly, GOLD has been demonstrating all the earmarks of STRENGTH... LONG LIVE THE TIGER!

HAPPY NEW YEAR - 29 January 1998

http://www.jai2.com/1986.htm

Donald, Haggis: Where does G Soros keep his savings? In Soros dollars, or does he has a special arrangement at the BIS? I don't think he carries around gold bullion.

It would be nice to know where he keeps his assets, because he probably has a very good idea regarding what will happen next!

for Winston and ROR
Fortunately I received a copy of Business Day at
Ras al Khaymar on the trucial coast. I am pleased to
see that the earnings of the Durban Deep group of
companies were reported.
The group had a cash loss of 26 mill rand after
capex versus a 48 mill rand after capex at a much
lower gold price. Also part of their costs have been
one off retrenchment payments as they continue to
cut staff. Their actual oprating loss was almost
breakeven down to 657,000 Rand from 17 million the
prior quarter. This makes a loss of 26/39 = 0.66 R/share
versus 47/39 = 1.2 R/share the prior quarter at a
higher gold price.
This stock looks marvellous but it needs a higher
gold price. It still looses 0.13$/sh*39/.285= about
18 $ per oz at a gold price of about 315. so
avg costs must be about 330-335 $/oz. about 25$ better
than the spread sheet number based on the september
quarter.
I must move on - pardon me effendim - peace be with
thee -
Yallah
Al'lah O akbar

for Winston and ROR

Fortunately I received a copy of Business Day at

Ras al Khaymar on the trucial coast. I am pleased to

see that the earnings of the Durban Deep group of

companies were reported.

The group had a cash loss of 26 mill rand after

capex versus a 48 mill rand after capex at a much

lower gold price. Also part of their costs have been

one off retrenchment payments as they continue to

cut staff. Their actual oprating loss was almost

breakeven down to 657,000 Rand from 17 million the

prior quarter. This makes a loss of 26/39 = 0.66 R/share

versus 47/39 = 1.2 R/share the prior quarter at a

higher gold price.

This stock looks marvellous but it needs a higher

gold price. It still looses 0.13$/sh*39/.285= about

18 $ per oz at a gold price of about 315. so

avg costs must be about 330-335 $/oz. about 25$ better

than the spread sheet number based on the september

quarter.

I must move on - pardon me effendim - peace be with

thee -

Yallah

Al'lah O akbar

Forward sales are at AU$ 581 per oz

John--Cut the crap with all the pseudo- Islamic religiosity. This is a PM site, NOT a call to submit to ALLAH! Keep your religious views to yourself and give us some good information to trade off of. June gold calls now at $450. $150 only last week!

To: APH, FundaMETALIST, OLD GOLD, other technicians

I read APHs post yesterday about the read on where gold might be going next in the short term. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I noticed that again on a decent rally, open interest fell over 5,000 contracts. If you look at a gold chart from Jan 12 to now, the direction is almost straight up. Looking at open interest for the same time period, it shows the direction straight down. Due to the large volume of short-covering, this might continue more up to the 320 area as some have noted. However, this will more than likely be followed by a steep drop.

From what I've read on E-Wave, the wave 1 up usually is a result of a change in market tone and a large volume of short-covering since most are now convinced that the tone has changed. APH noted that the next downturn might ( 50/50 ) go to new lows. My question is: do any of you see this next downturn as a wave 2 that will retrace most but not all of the recent wave 1 up, or do you see this latest up move as a wave C, with a new leg down and new lows to come. Let me stress that I mean short term ( next few weeks ) . Thank you in advance for any opinions you may have.

That's JUNE 330 gold calls!

'Tis a fine day to take a walk and contently reflect on all those phillies, eagles and calls that we have tucked away...ohmy!...how sweet it is....up, up and away...Buy More Gold....

article from Aussie Financial Review Friday

http://www.afr.com.au/content/980130/market/markets3.html

regarding John Disney's posts, I find them entertaining, informative, and extremely valuable. May I respectfully suggest you skip them if you find them unworthy of your time.



Without John's posts, many of us would be totally in the dark regarding our S.A. shares. His posts are invaluable....IMHO.

Maybe this will help you. Examine both of the URL's below:

http://www.msnbc.com/modules/commerce/spotcommodity.asp

http://www.msnbc.com/modules/commerce/gold2.asp

Take care & good luck...Barb

Album: "Solid Gold", 1977

Your ma was never a maid, was she STUDIO.R?
http://thoth.stetson.edu/hyde/mpg/3.html

http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/980130/business/business2.html

Effendim
For the Golden Prophet - I fear you blaspheme. There
is only one god and his prophet is Mohammed. La elaha
el'la al'lah.
You should spend some time with me in the desert.
Not in normal interchange with humans as you are
not ready. But you could tend my camels and work
your way up from there oh crude one.
Thank you Polarbear Pasha for your kind and most
generous words. I am undeserving. I am sorry for
the set back in Durban deep. In truth I have
always preferred Harmony of the two.
I move on my work nears completion. I thirst
for Musqat. Yallah Zebediyah.
Al'lah O akbar

Might be of interest... http://www.eh.net/Archives/hes/jan-98/0020.html

Nothing comes up in the second URL you gave me ( /gold2.asp ) except the ad banner, but I am assuming from the first URL the difference has something to do with wholesale vs retail price. Is this correct?

Thanks for your response.

Regard BCCI, Washingtons most prestigious law firm and the grand old man of the Beltway...re-investigate that a bit...

Corruption, US style, is still buried in balance sheet footnotes and bank NOT-marked-to-market derivatives. As my old mentor would say,

In the fullness of time...

Re: ECU, ACU, $, SDR...The battle is raging. Brussels folk are salivating at the prospect of all that NEW power ( as they see it ) ...mmmm, does Europe have oil? {:- ) Oil may have some comments about reserve currency...who, what, where...

Away to recreate my destroyed bookmark file. ( Screams of pain and frustration ) Shall return anon...

If GOLD is a political metal, am I a politician ???

nick@c------

are you referring to the 23:48 post? the 23:56 had no such verbage....
the 23:48 post used 'your' properly......you're---you are-----is not
proper in that instance.......not sure of your angle.....mucho cerveza?

don't you just hate it when the grains----beans and corn-----miss
their export numbers? since the asian contagion will not affect the
us, surely this is not a trend?

options......and realistic........they do not flock together...


buy gold options and physical............

This is a very interesting situation which is occuring on Gold's Open Interest figures. Most here believe that since open interest has been falling that it is bearish. I disagree. I believe that what we are seeng here is a fundamental change in philosophy and momentum. High open interest serves no other purpose than to tell you that there are alot of open orders yet to be closed.

My take: As the price has risen, open interest has fallen. I think this is bullish. If the price were to fall or stay the same as open interest fell, then that would be bearish.

Study any graph on any commodity and you will find a strong correlation between open interest and price over the intermediate time frame as I have said.

If gold keeps rising and O.I. keeps falling, this is bullish.
If gold keeps rising and O.I. rises, this is bearish. This would signal commercials going short.

My source: Larry Williams, one of the top five futures traders ever.

There is indeed Gold and Oil in Europe, I have seen a "nodding donkey" oil rig someplace just north of London- there are some miniscule oil deposits around there, and need I mention North Sea oil whose Brent oil field gives its name to Brent crude. There is gold in Wales and Devon. Welsh gold, though expensive to mine, has some sentimental value as a basis for Welsh gold wedding rings. New oil fields are being explored to the West of Scotland.

I can't agree with your comment last night that the S & L crisis was solved. My opinion is that it has only been postponed and pushed into the future for our children. The current stock market run-up is a direct result of the Fed "solution". Stick it to the savers by forcing down passbook interest rates to 1.5 -2.0%. Force feeding the banks cheap money to restore capital requirements. Older people counted on that income to live on. In desperation they go over to the other window in the same S&L that promises higher yield. They mistakenly think that those accounts are insured. Much of that money went to Asia. The stock crash will wipe them out.

The future banking crisis is just now starting to unfold worldwide. We post notices of banking downgrades daily. This one will be the great-grandaddy of them all.

NO

If you will look at:

http://www.kitco.ca/gold.live.html

Add bid to change = 305.70 for close yesterday

takes time with delays to catch up.

Take care...Barb

Gold off $3 and bonds up this morning as Greenspan testifies. My recollection is that gold ALWAYS DECLINES when AG is testifying. Coincidence?

Kaplan sounding increasingly cautious because of falling open interest. Simce he was bullish all the way down, perhpas he has become a contrary indicator. Let's face it, the specs were right and the commercials were wrong in 1996 and 1997.

Haveagooddaytoallmakethemetalssoar!!!

When I started watching Big Al talking on CNBC ( right now ) the Dow was at 25 ticks up, and before my TV went on the blink ( storm here ) just 10 minutes later Dow went to 56 ticks.....WoW DoW. Go Dow, Go!!!!! Let's make a new top this time!! Go Dow, Go!! Big Al, and I ain't talking Bundy...

away

ullBabybull

I have a feeling that there is more than meets the eye here-is there

who claims to author and maintain this index?

Thanks for the post on Asian liquidity, rather the lack of it, at 9:40. This mess is just getting started.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/economy_gr_1.html
"before spring is over, the abrupt current-account adjustments that
financial difficulties are forcing upon several of our Asian trading
partners will be showing through here"

Any maps of the areas you tour?
Most of us haven't any idea where Musqat is.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/budget_gre_1.html
"outpouring of proposals for using the anticipated surplus does not bode well for the prospect of maintaining fiscal discipline"

in Persian Gulf Area. The Monarch is Sultan Qaboos bin Said. It is not a very rich country and the main export is Oil. The large size of this country Country gives it's Importance within Persian Gulf. Need more info ?

I like your new found religion. It seems to be having an influence on your double-space typing. Now I must 'struggle' with only half of your posts. I must admit that single space type is much easier for my eyes to read. Praise to Allah.....for he keeps on giving...

away...to buy me a Koran

profit....er...prophet

go plat...go Juice!! and go gold!

I promise I'll never ask again ( today ) ! TIA

Just up scouring and came across the article. If you sent the cops to my address they would end up at Yankee Stadium.

Here are my favourite links to South African Mining companies/news:

http://www.bday.co.za/news/

http://www.bfanet.com/lookup/rptmain.htm

Kloof and Harmony seem the least hyped now. Dreifontein or Vaal Reefs for quality/size.

Mohammad was an illiterate camel driver with a defective knowledge of Judaism and Christianity without which he never could have dreamed up his version of religious reality! He belongs in the same category with Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Judaism started with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob 2,000 years before Mohammad rode his first camel. Christianity started with Jesus Christ 600 years before Mohammad fantasized on Mt. Hira! Whatever is good in the ethical teachings of Islam comes from these earlier monotheistic religions. The rest is all pious claptrap! Bow to Mecca five times a day if you want but the real center of religious activity will always be Jerusalem, NOT Mecca! Take a Haj to Disneyland, John. At least you won't lose your soul!

John, I couldn't help but notice that your posts are now single lined. Is that because you found the problem and rectified it OR was it because you seem to have found "religion" in your posts ? ( :- )

TTFN

http://www.msnbc.com/news/138134.asp

Thanks for the info. I am sure that John Disney will provide more info of the areas from now on.

John, while in the desert, how do you communicate with your PC? Satellite Internet?

http://www.nypostonline.com/news/3282.htm

Thanks again for the clarification. Never can have enough of those bookmarked URL's.

I punch in my comments....

Return to Kitco and find .....

EB said the same thing I did not 3 minutes before me ....

Does this mean I'm having a "bonding" with EB?

Once again "OH NO !!!! " ( ;- )

TTFN

What's a soul?

Don't you mean Wrigley Field?? Now go out and find yer buddy, Camdessus....and bring him back here for a proper hanging. Oh My.

away



growing religion in USA and the World and it accepts Christianity and Judaism as Religions from One God and respects all the Prophets including all you mentioned. What is your Beef with Islam, my friend.

your Circle. Kindly refrain from deragatory Statements

1. Jung on 123/23 at 12.36

2. D.J. on 12/23 at 17.01

3. Golden Prophet on 12/23 at 16.47

These may help, especially Jun's posting.May I make a small suggestion,
I have started to keep a little "Kitco directory" of "posts to Remember" on a little notepad near the computer. For some of the more memorable posts, etc. It is not all inclusive, becaue there is so mush stuff here but it helps a little.

The spiritual component of a human being which leads us back to the God who breathed into us the breath of life at creation. It's what makes us different from the ape, the dog and the camel among a whole host of other things.

NO! Those other guys from Chicago were a disgruntled grouping of the original sect, the only thing they did to save themselves was to save the children and the Penguins.

And yes, I do have something hanging for Camdesuss.

Wavelengths have no borders Front....I love you man! Now...go out and buy some gold!! And the good book.

away...to seek the Supreme Creator ( Ja Rastafari )

Mn

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/japan_bank_1.html

and Fishes in the Sea. They dont need USA or IMF, my friend

So far I have heard nothing good about RYO. This stock has been attacked by both "Kitcoites" and Wall Street "gurus".

Well, I decided to try "contrary opinion" theory, so I just bought 4,000 shares to add to my previous "sorry" holdings.

Is there a single person in this forum who has something positive on RYO?

If so, LET HIM SPEAK. I am all ears.

Don't declare jihad on me just yet, Midas and all you other Islamic devotees. It's a free country--believe what you want! My only beef with John Disney is that he's using Kitco as a sounding board for his Islamic faith. His Islamic proselytizing is as repugnant to me, a Christian, as mine would be to him or to some of our Jewish contributors. This is NOT the forum for expressing religious views--there are enough of those already! Kindly keep your discussion on this forum on the precious metals and save your religious proslelytizing for the mosque, church, synagogue!

go read usagold.com there is some very interesting reading there today.

World Economic Forums 1998 Annual Meeting: Managing Volatility

Hillary Rodham Clinton to speak on priorities for the next century
( Press Release announcement, Jan 27, 1998 )
Donald@Diogenes.of.News How would you rate press coverage
of this?

http://www.weforum.org/publications/press_releases/am98_hillary270198.asp

Post ( s ) in honesty

Golden Prophet: Your sense of humor and ersatz piety are both wearing thin. If you're content with unvarnished numbers only, order the annual reports and enjoy. Leave us in peace and take your Jerusalem with you.

I refer you back to my 11:31. Let this be the final word on this!

Golden Prophet: " It's what makes us different from the ape, the dog and the camel among a whole host of other things."

Only some of us, kind sir. Only some of us.

Archives... if it's any help, someone has created a search engine for Kitco archives at http://www.acsys.com/~hong/retrieval.html

I'm not too different from a dog sometimes....or for that matter, the ape.

Do all dogs go to heaven?

Now, I agree with the G. Prophet, let us git off the religious thingy. My contribution was merely for fun ( as usual ) .

Now go unto thee Comex and buy ye more gold...and dig into thine devine Mother earth ( haggis ) and produce more gold to make the ( big ) Calf....I want gold, I want gold!

away...to smite the gold sellers ( not )



I agree with your 11:31 post 100%. This is or is supposed to be indeed
a Discussion Forum on GOLD. It seems that Dizzy Muhamed is
permited and encouraged by some ( vested interests ) here to spew out his attacks, but when anyone challlenges him with FACTS, he considers these irrelevant, and continues his "hidden" attacks on something
he finds comedic..... If you ask me, we should all just stick to the facts..
yes you too Earl.... is Dizzy paying you off... who died and made you
owner of Kitco, and how dare you insult Jerusalem, a sacred city to all 3
Religions.

There are sufficient chat groups where religion may be discussed and not enough for precious metals. Let's stay focussed, please.

eagles or maples?? hrmm whats ur preference?

...Remember to respect the Jews as well as the Christians for we all believe in the same one God... Mohammad the "illiterate camel driver" himself taught his followers tolerance towards other religions, as did Jesus, even Moses and every other spiritual master. Noone can prove which religion is right, but this is not the issue. I was brought up as a Catholic and subsequently renounced this religion for I do not believe that any religious teaching has the right to take possession of ones soul and subject any human to serfdom. I have found that all religions have a common source reaching back to the early days of human history, for the basic truth of religion is always the same, as taught by Jesus the Christ at his Sermon on the Mount. Islam for example has brought us the enlightened sufis ( Dervishes ) , however like most religions it has been distorted by powerhungry individuals for their own needs. Did Jesus ever ask to take to the sword??


As for John Disney, I very much enjoy your posts, they make it so much easier to read an otherwise dry subject. They so much reflect the colorful way the people of the Mediterranean and Middle East countries express themselves.


I myself have travelled through the Sahara desert, it truly teaches you to be humble again. The experience of a lunch hosted by a local Tuareg in Tamanrasset I will never forget.


Bukra enshal'lah, tomorrow, God willing, we will all understand the true meaning of religion. Remember, believers and infidel, Christians and Muslims, that Heavenly Kingdom is within you!


Althought I must confess that for me a cold beer, good food and a rising gold price come as close to heaven as it gets...

How do I separate paragraphs??? Pressing the reurn key does not seem to help.

do some volume today, if that rate keeps up .

What time is it scheduled for?

Ted-- ( Kitco Cop ) put a stop to this Religious fervour ----Gold seems lacklustre today ----smooth sailing before the storm ----314 ---Monday ---Anybody

That the Press release ends ASP...
Care to share your 'read' of that?

I was way impressed with yesterdays closing rocket surge,kinda gets me anticipating Fridays closing hour.Nobody is going home until they settle up,I hope it is wild!

MARKET UPDATE ( 01/29/98 ) AM-----

ANALYSIS

The markets appeared to be biding their time with all eyes on the Greenspan testimony
before Congress this morning. Gold recovered from an attempt by the shorts to run it
lower in yesterday's COMEX aftermarket. The COMEX evening-, or after-, market is
notoriously thin and the shorts attempted to turn the tide there to no avail. When
trading opened in Hong Kong, there was strong physical demand from both New York
commission houses and Japanese investors. The uptrend continued in London with
strong hedge fund and bullion bank short covering, as well as some hedge fund
buying at these levels. Now as New York opens the shorts are back and the market is
down early.

To all
JCI the company founded by Barney Barnato will be
dissolved. Its demise represents a major victory for
Anglo American. Anglos first sold off its interests
in JCI for over 55 rand/share. The company then slowly
lost direction under the guidance of Mzi Khumalo and
Brett Kebbel. Finally Anglos appear to have bought
back the plum bits of JCI, Western Areas and Joel,
for a song. Anglos is now a massive diversified
precious metals diamond and resource company. It is
completely unmatched in the world. JCI, will be broken
down and sold off bit by bit over the next few months.
It currently trades around 26 rand.

Which one are you referring to, John, ANGLY or AAGIY? Thanks for the info!

Ryter: I agree but, at the same time let's not lose our sense of humor either. I am astounded that John Disney's most excellent posts can be misconstrued as serious religious prosletyzing. Those who find their immortal souls imperiled by such are still able scroll past them and continue to languish in scriptural stupor.

to: TigerCat@Viejo_Oro

Your email not working...but I know you're watching
If you're not kicking geodes ( or haven't found the flying dutchman )
Exit @ X 76.5- *AND* S 302.5-
Open window: Nones to Ides ( 286-276 )
Announcement ( Bruxelles, Zurich or Milan? ) Friday next?
It's your call, all disclaimers apply - Chance is walking.

Pookie: I urge you to reconsider your renuciation of Catholicism
and once again embrace and practice the one true religion which
Jesus Christ instituted on earth via Peter and the disciples:
Catholicism!

Monday Gold at 314? NO.

We have a runaway train on our hands right now.....and it ain't gold. Any guesses what it is and when it will slow? I say 2005 ( year ) . Ya know, give or take.

away

soothsayerandgoldslayer

I'm confused about this silver lawsuit everyone has been talking about against Phibro

Cash S&P made new all-time highs not too long ago today and the futures are noo too far from their all time highs.

The overbought short term condition and the jump in short term rates by .09% so far today do not bode well for gold short term.

Seems that A$581 translates to US$392 and change, so we can see the profit potential Plutonic has on those 1.227 million ounces.
IMHO, the fair price for gold, as a commodity - not money backing- is around US $600 bucks and if right, Plutonic would do well to exercise its right to a quick profit. Aye, thanks.

Wednesday January 28 10:12 AM EST
Hillary: Allegations are false

WASHINGTON, Jan. 28 ( UPI ) _ Hillary Rodham Clinton says she has talked to her husband about rumors he had an affair...ta dah, ta dah--been there,
done that... Last paragraph of story:

"Meantime, she is going about her business as usual, traveling to a college in Connecticut to discuss the administration's child care initiatives. On Friday she will fly to Switzerland for a series of events in Zurich, Lucerne and Davos, returning on Wednesday.

Copyright 1998 by United Press International.
All rights reserved.

Frankly, I do not consider this a news story. For me, it is MOPS in action.

Do not understand why all the talk of religion, all see one true god! More deaths and war have been over the one true god, who teaches not to take life. Please wake up and see that religion is a tool for INDIVIDUALS to divide and conquer for personal gain. From what little I know of the different religions, the seem to have common ground on morality, a guide to how one lives their life if you will, why get hung up on technacallities. Other words, the holy guides - bibles, teach basically the same thing, just prescribed through eyes of different prophits. Lets get off who perception is right or wrong.

EB: How much of a retracement do you see?

I too own RYO and have been disappointed. However RYO has been lower than it is now. It did recently get new financing which should ensure its existence for quite a while. The Kemes ( sp? ) project does seem to be a low cost production project. Gold is moving higher and RYO will move higher with gold. RYO is definately a risk play.

SDRer: I find it amazing that there is even 'talk' about a G3. Frank Veneroso thinks that the main reason for the gold bear was that France and Germany had unilaterally decided to wrest control of the gold reserves of the EURO, and that Belgium and the Netherlands then decided their gold was 'worthless' and sold it.

This does not sound like a democratic approach that would lead to that Utopian 'New World Order', does it?

Now not only India is talking about gold savings accounts, but also something similar for Thailand. I think it is pretty clear that the first gold-backed currency ( al la BIS ) will be a South East Asian one. The Americans and Europeans will try to prevent this, but they will eventually be forced to come up with a similar solution. Has G Soros said anything about wanting to learn Chinese?

Someone posted this morning that liquidity in Malasia had virtually dried up. Malaysia has ( had? ) one of the strongest economies in SEAsia. I think this answers part of the question of whether we will have an immediate flood of cheap goods on US shores -- perhaps not, because one must have international cash flow for trade to occur. Hence if this is the main problem in SEAsia, inflation in the US will be the most likely result, not deflation. Inflation because of the need to increase liquidity in SEAsia ( this is already happening ) , and inflation because the supply of cheap foreign goods has dropped off. Is this why the commodity price index is rising? I wonder -- does anyone know how much trade has dropped off between SEAsia, and the rest of the world?

What wild times we live in!

I guess I'm being censored also. So I'll drop it.

Mr. Disney - Is the Brett Kebbel from JCI you mentioned the same one that runs Randgold/Durban Deep? If so - his JCI track record doesn't inspire confidence in the future of Randgold.

I also would like to thank you for your S. Africa information - the latest quarterly results have made me very happy with the decisions I made a few months ago, of which you provided very helpful input.

Now if I could only figure out this silver problem.

Hey I wonder why Hillary is going to Switzerland. Maybe she has a little banking business to conduct: ) Stash some assets away so Bill can't get em after she divorces his but.

A run away train is usually going down hill F-A-S-T. Nothing anyone would want to jump ONTO, rather to jump OFF of ASAP. A Skyrocket can only go so far on its spectacular, fiery flight, and then .. P-O-P, into a billion little peices. Most people would rather watch these than ride them. Its a gambling casino for sure and no doubt you ARE a gambler. 'Not I' said the cat. Gold may yet surprise us. I'd much rather have a smooth ascent in gold and silver than an unsustainable rocketeering experience ( with the corresponding lack of commitment that such things engender ) . Since the market will have its 'brakes' adjusted in early Feb'98 I suppose we will not see anything until after then, eh? There are a few who contol this gig, who know the times and seasons, such as they are.

Ride it, EB, and make your money. Hope you get off in time.

EBridinTheBigOne, eh ;- ) When do we get to use our tickets to see the wink'e'dink???

Building a cast of characters, so we have a shot at knowing what the
script will be:

Wednesday January 28 2:27 PM EST
Millennium debugger: "Don't say I didn't warn you"

De Jager, one of the best known of the millennium debugging advocates, was in London this week to address more business leaders about the problem before attending the WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM IN DAVOS, Switzerland, which begins Thursday, to try and ram home the message to the annual gathering.

Remember, Davos is strictly by INVITATION ONLY!

bring renewed worries over Asia and Mideasat will start a slide for both Stocks and Gold.

Davos is HRC as visionary spokesperson for "Priorities in the
next century"...a concept with which I am having not a
little difficulty...

http://www.usagold.com/Daily%20Quotes

http://www.usagold.com/Daily%20Quotes

Your old mentor wasn't Ed Hart, was it, the fellow not picked up by CNBC when it merged with FNN? Re: Clark Clifford/BCCI; I'm afraid they're gonna let that corrput dog lie.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/hedge_fund_1.html

I like what APH says regarding the gold retracement. As you know this next 'test' will be the ALL important one. I would like to see the reverse head and shoulders pattern. This means gold goes to 290 ( possible ) 285 ( Eldo's 62% gold retracement #, and there is a gap to be filled set at 287-289. Then the rally continues only to get 'set back' again. And then.......well, you know the rest of the story. Of course, all this changes if 277.50 is breached. Then I will walk to my, proverbial, elevator shaft and take the leap to MAJOR lows. Time will be the soothsayer here, not I. Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock.....the bull is trying to run up the clock....... ( trip, splat? ) ......

away...to work

?

Just checked






Just checked CME site ahows sp droped 20 in 10 minutes all currencies down hard h'm?









cm

EB- Saw your post. The baby boomer earnings will peak around 2010, and seriously think about retirement not long after -- with SocSecurity essentially bankrupt. That will definitely stop the US economy if Congress has not put aside some savings for that rainy day. Very unlikely they will do anything. Gold will then soar about that time.

However, I think we will have some major market surprises long before 2005 or so. Did you know that Tenet, the CIA director just stated that there is a big security leak in our Government, and it is in the Executive branch? Also -- why did the Paula Jones lawsuit fly though the Supreme Court? It sounds almost completely harmless on the surface -- nothing was actually done to anyone -- and yet BC must go to court while in office. Did you see that Clinton's lawyers now want to expedite the Paula Jones case, when only a few weeks ago they were stonewalling?

I think we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg, and all of this will unravel when Starr is able to question BC's secret service agents. Given the press feeding frenzy right now, I think Starr will have a much easier time with witnesses and information gathering of all kinds -- and this will bring down the markets.

Sir: Let me compliment you on two aspects of your personality which you have exhibeted on our humble forum!

!. Total lack of bigotry and/or ethnocentrism.

2.Obvious total comprehensiod as to what makes other religions tick.

Now I've learned it all from your recent posts. my quest is o'er!!

Viav el Profeta del Oro. Y buen suerte a nosotros de su intelligentsia!!

Something wrong with quotes ( dif. ) atcme,sorry.

One question regarding Catholicism: Why are most Catholic priests gay? I'm not passing judgement, but many surveys have shown that most people who attend church services regularly do not condone homosexual lifestyles.

Don't think you'll see a Rothschild giving a public address at this confab. This is an opportunity for anonymous meetings between the world power elites which circumvents even these people's own staff ( potential info leaks there ) and any technology medium. Its not the meetings but the meeting outside of the meetings which is the real agenda. These powers do not trust any communication channel apart from mouth to ear through thin mountain air. This is their once a year chance to 'take that long walk in the gardens with my dear old friend'. Many 'old acquaintences' are renewed here, no?

At least Y2000 is on thier radar screen.

JCI breakup

Unfortunately, I do not have the time to look for the source data. But if memory serves, about 2-3 years ago was it not JCI who announced the FORWARD sale of an amount of gold equivalent to EIGHT YEARS OF THEIR CURRENT ANNUAL PRODUCTION? If this is certain, I wonder who is going to be left holding the empty paper bag when it is time to return the sold gold???

Wednesday January 28 5:32 PM EST
Romania Leader in Deadline to Broker Crisis
By Roxana Dascalu

BUCHAREST, Romania ( Reuters ) - President Emil Constantinescu waded into a debilitating political crisis at the 11th hour Wednesday,..Lastparagraph:

A privatization law was approved at an emergency session of parliament this week. The budget, VITAL FOR CONTINUED SUPPORT FROM WESTERN CREDITORS
and laws on foreign investment and reshaping state monopolies remain on parliament's order paper.

Constantinescu said he would attend the WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM this weekend bringing together political and economic leaders in the Swiss resort of DAVOS.

would it be maples eagles or phillies? i have a hard time because of the eagles being alloyed? wouldnt one want a pure gold coin, or as close to pure as you could get?

The spin doctors are at work and gold continues to defy the strenghth of the U.S. dollar. In the meantime the Canadian dollar is collapsing and it will not be long before a crisis similar to Latin America develops. The Prime Minister of Canada will have alot of explaining to do for his statement that he is not worried about the level of the dollar and they should let the market determine its value. The weakness combined with a head in the sand approach from the Canadian Government will certainly attract the VULTURES.

http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/980128/international/stories/israel_4.html

Perhaps my metaphor was a portent...perhaps not. All I need is a measly 13% for 15 more years ( or so ) . That's it. Beyond that is gravy. I started long ago and will continue to do so a long time from now. Our investments do not appear overnite, no? Our speculations can ( appear ) as quickly as they can disappear ( I know ) . Let us use caution at times and throw it to the wind at others. And let us have fun, eh?

Life is good.

And the *wink-palace* will be opening soon. We must wait for the wink itself......D.A. has his 'people' working on it now. I still have MANY tickets. It comes with free gulps of Tequila, I have four reserved for the Tol#1.

Hey Tol#1 - that reminds me. If there is ever a kitco party you had better bring that wooden leg of yours.....gulp, gulp, gulp..... ( klunk ) ....zzzzz...

JTF - 2010? Boomers? Then the date is set. Let us rock&roll till then.

away...i'm late now...off to my kitcoHOWLIC meeting



http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/greenspan__7.html

it will be interesting how the Republicans react to more money for IMF, but if I'm correct, some of the Democrats ( Daschle and co. ) are also opposed to more money. .

Myrmidon: Just thought I'd give an RYO cheer for you. I too own some and wouldn't mind some more appreciative souls kicking in their support. I still think RYO's management is good ( if Ms. Witte doesn't go broke first from margin calls on her other million shares ) , and when Kemess comes online around April they will begin making money again ( if gold atays above $280 - the big if? ) .

I have to disagree with your assessment that there are plenty of consumers in S.E. Asia for Japan to sell to. There may be plenty of would be consumers, a huge difference. Most of the people in those Countries have been reduced to a sub subsistence level & will consider themselves fortunate to be able to eat regularly.

Effendim -
In the desert, men are more polite to one another.
The true grace of humanity asserts itself and indeed is
underlined. And as you face the great inverted bowl of the
sky you find that it both shelters and exposes you.
Thank you earl, and myrmidon, and EB, and Midas, and
Pookie for your words and patience with me as I travel
the desert of my imagination and my memory. You are men
of true style. Had I not made this trip I would not
have known that. Also Polarbear, and aurator, and brave
oris ( You would always be safe with Oris as Backup ) all
of whom have travelled with me from time to time and
shared the boredom and dangers.
The golden prophet needs to develop his character and
his imagination. I am of course only muslim when in the
desert, or jewish when eating chopped liver and telling
jokes, or Catholic when in Chartres, or fundamentalist
in Georgia, or Greek orthodox on Tinos, or Russian orthodox
when listening to the vespers of Rachmaninov, or Shinto
in the Japanese countryside. I am easily assimilated.
As for my poor sancho panza of the desert, zebediyah
the dwarf, what can I say of him. He MUST develop
himself and have generosity of spirit. He will receive as
he gives. He must develop GRACE. Until he does he will
trail behind my caravan in the hot sun.
Hepcat LGB and others have good minds and work hard and
are good and worthy people - they must seek and find the
grace within themselves - Thank you brothers for your time -
For the KEEN EYED FRONT - al'lah showed me the way to
avoid double spacing - I was lost now I am found.
For Pookie - Ive played many games of backgammon with
the sephardic Jews of turkey. They are wonderful and
have never had a beef with the muslim.
But these prickly pears are doing their work. I must
move on to Musqat - I want to choose a Circassian girl.
I have money from Durban deep and I will pay well.

Yallah Zebediyah
Al'lah O akbar

.

EB. please put me down for a few more tickets. I want to give four tickets to T1 so that he can give them to his very good friend who works over there at IMf; you know the guy I'm talking about, what's his name again ?, oh yeah Comdoosos ! P.S. Please don't tell T1, I want it to be a surprise.

As I suggested last monday when I covered my US$ & Market "shorts"
the US$ is up substancially today up about 1 Yen, up 182.80 vs Mark
and SF...the US$ looks to me set to go even higher ...... Gold is hanging in there only down $2.60, good showing so far BUT can it hold?
AG didn't show up at the State of the Union.... He said this morning that
there is NO surplus "money" for expenditures and we must be prepared for Financial instability... does he want take the punch bowl away? . http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/budget_gre_1.html
....Clinton is rumored to be preparing a speech shortly on Iraq...Hmmmm
Russia's Primikov said today that it would be a "grave error' to bomb Iraq,
but it looked inevitable...Madeleine is making the rounds twisting arms
for support... US is threatening to bomb or close off Basrah Iraq's Oil port....Gee what happened to SE Asia "CRISIS"?....What with Monica
and now Iraq, oh well it's all fixed heh? If Gold holds up today it could be important, BUT always be prepared for the PPT......
stay tuned....

Myrimidon and Yellow Jacket. I also hold a fair amount of Royal Oak and do so by virtue of the disfavor it is in due to negative cash flow at present. The key here is that they are potentially in a great position to come "online" with Kemess at a lower cash cost than they've had historically at a time that we all hope gold prices will be firming. With firming gold prices and good cash flow, they have multiple other projects to bring online in the next two - three years. IF!! it all works out they could be a great play.

All religions started by ET's,
http://www.cseti.org/programs/quote.htm
why don't you take your '''conversation'''
to one of the UFO channels
AND LEAVE US ALONE.

I don't know what gave you the idea that I have something against the Japanese. My daughter in law is Japanese & there is much that I admire about them. But that does not detract from the fact that their financial/economic model does'nt work.

Where did you ever get the impression that I think that they are

Someone mentioned that the system doesn'nt accept quotation marks.
Aaaah...the hell with it.

http://www.bullion.org.za/speeches/istanbul.htm

"JCI Limited has routinely sold forward 10 to 15 per cent of production.
The most recent contract was for Western Areas Gold Mine, in which 7,3
million ounces were hedged in order to develop the South Deep project.
The group's H.J. Joel Gold Mine is also considering selling forward its
entire gold output in order to finance its capital expansion phase, to
be implemented by 2001. Randgold recently unwound many of its hedges and
has replaced them with flat currency forwards in both Rands and Dollars."

Jupiter conjuncting with Mars mythologically signifies a time of war.
The god of gods ( Jupiter ) comes down to meet the god of war ( Mars ) .
Jan 28/29 1998 Jupiter conjuncts Mars.
Historically some leaders have used this as part of their battle plan.

I'm no believer in astrology but it is too eerie Clinton is rattling his sabre...should he attack Iraq this would be a bad, bad omen which ever way you cut it. The US is on it's own on this one.
Don't be suprised if a few cannisters of ANTHRAX rain down on the Pacific West coast....

Monday Jan 26 1998
The Globe and Mail reports in its Monday, January 26, edition that the
ay Keh Dene band is going back to court to stop construction of Royal Oak Mines' $390 million gold and copper mine in northern BC. A Canadian press dispatch to the Globe says the band wants compensation for the mine being built on its traditional territory, 350km northwest of Prince George. The band, frustrated with mediation talks with the province and Royal Oak, has decided to go ahead with a BC Supreme Court action it had put on hold and add two more. The band hopes to have a date soon for a BC Supreme Court judicial review. The band argues the mine's environmental approval was tainted and the band was inadequately
consulted about the impact on its territory. The band filed a new claim last week in Supreme Court saying the mine is based on an unconstitutional infringement of the Tsay Keh Dene's aboriginal title. It seeks damages for wrongful expropriation of its interests as well as any profits the province stands to gain.

Both have different approaches. Some say you must buy the metal that its the only way to go. No, others say the paper gold will bring more profit. Some say go long, other go short. Some like to store it in safety deposit boxes and others say bury it. The government is going to steal it, no they won't dare. It is going up long term, no down short term. Etc., etc. Everyone has their opinion, only time will prove who was right.

Now go take on the day!

Anyone Know ? Real-time Gold And Commodity prices on the net on a subscription basis .Thanks in advance.

Perdona pero tengo problemas con mi elc-correo.. si deseas hablar
es possible darme tu numero de tel... y tratare de llamarte luego....

I have been gone and missed the Vronsky Verses Bart episode. Could anybody enlightne Me??? I have "conversed" with Vronsky and he has been a perfect gentleman.
In Feb. I will be in Orlando, Ft. Myers & key Largo Florida. Any Kitcoits there??? Would enjoy meeting over coffee.

Bjack@cdsnet.net

White House sex scandal raises questions over US role as world leader
DAVOS, Switzerland, Jan 29 ( AFP ) - Economic experts attending
the World Economic Forum here raised questions Thursday about the
United States'a bility to fulfill its role as world leader when
President Bill Clinton is embroiled in a steamy sex scandal.
"The hot spots of the world do not include the sexual
relationships in the White House," Richard Haass, director of
foreign policy studies at the Brookings Institution told a seminar
on geopolitical priorities on the first day of the annual meeting in
this Swiss ski resort.
But the White House sex scandal is already being talked about
here as US First Lady Hillary Clinton is due to address the
assembled world political and financial leaders here on Monday on
the theme of "individual and collective priorities for the coming
century."
Analysts at Thursday's symposium saw the whole story of Bill
Clinton's alleged sexual relationship with a White House intern as
symptomatic of the difficulty of finding someone with the true
stature of a world leader capable of dealing with rising tensions in
Iraq, the Middle East, Asia and other areas.
In the absence of international institutions able to control an
increasingly integrated world, "the only alternative is the USA,"
said Dominique Moisi, deputy director of the French Institute for
international relations.
But this "provincial empire" is dragging its feet when it comes
to fully assuming its international responsibilities, Moisi said.
"American citizens know more about the geography of the White
House than the geography of the world."
"The biggest dilemma for us is there is nothing you can do
without the US, but what can you do with the US alone?" Moisi
added.
Haas said the real risk is not that the United States will start
acting like the world's policemen, but that it will turn in on
itself in a new wave of isolationism.
He cited the US Congress' reluctance to authorise a fresh
injection of US funds into the International Monetary Fund to refill
its coffers after the massive aid programme for Asia, and its
refusal to give Clinton permanent fast track powers to push through
international trade agreements.
Japan's economic and political crisis in particular may cause a
protectionist backlash in the United States if Tokyo chooses to
massively boost exports to try to turn things around, Haass said.
The worst scenario would be a paralysed US leadership coupled
with a Japanese crisis.
Other analysts pointed to other issues where US leadership, or
lack of it, will be crucial -- the emergence of China as a world
economic power and its integration into the international community,
the decline of Russia, the globalisation of world markets, terrorism
and organised crime.
Business leaders had more immediate concerns about the current
White House scandal.
"When Mr. Clinton misbehaves, the dollar falls. We sell in
dollars and we prefer a strong dollar," said one senior official of
a European aeronautics company, who asked not to be named.

Japan's Sakakibara to attend World Economic Forum
TOKYO, Jan 29 ( Reuters ) - Japan's Vice Finance Minister for International Affairs Eisuke Sakakibara left Tokyo on Thursday to attend a World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, a Ministry of Finance ( MOF ) official said on Thursday. The forum is scheduled to be held from January 29 to February 3.

COMMENT: SAKAKIBARA IS THE GENTLEMEN WHO HAS HAD A NUMBER OF VERY POINTED THINGS TO SAW ABOUT US & USD & US DEBT....

( TRENTON ) _ Gov. Christie Whitman is going to participate in the World Economic Forum annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland, from Jan. 30 to Feb. 2. The conference is on the development of economic regions and the world economy.Whitman says New Jersey ranks fifth among states for foreign investment and ninth in exports. Nearly 16 percent of the state's workforce is employed through export production and foreign investments.

COMMENT: As a part of WEF Emeging Leaders program? There to be vetted?

Shlomo@Yes. Re: Clifford Cabal--and 'lie' it does!

JTF@Wild.Times The script is truly rich with great second
act 'denouement' ( :- )

The Catholic Church is adamently opposed to the homosexual lifestyle.
It does not condemn them but urges them to repent. Most priests
are not gay; the fact that some may suffer from this affliction
just says that they are human, like the rest of us.

RE: ROYAL OAK MINES.
I bought Royal Oak Mines back in 1993
for 1.70. I held it up until the time
POG reached 400.00, and then sold it
at 5.75.

RYO has a female CEO who is touogh as nails
and as smart as could be expected.
It is a well managed company.

The problem is, they have a bunch of
mines that are not profitable when
POG is 300.00. They are a high cost
producer.

Their new mine is supposed to be a low cost
producer.

In my book, there are better prospects
who have found mineral deposits in
other parts of the world where the
cost of production will be FAR less
than RYO.

BUT---If POG hits $400.00 +, you can buy
at todays prices and douoble your
money with RYO.

A better buy would be CANARC which is
a Canadian stock listed in Toronto.
It's an exploration company with HOT
prospects. Buy now at .50 cents
and if POG goes to 400.00 + you will
have quadrupled your money.

Canarc has a JV with PDG on an elephant
in Suriname.

Only 4 of us holding RYO? Surely we are MINORITIES!

@ Beamer: The RYO news aren't good. Thanks for the info. It is a risk.

definitely

Namu Amida Butsu

My opinion, FWIW, is I like the Maple Leaf since it has that nice ".9999" on it. Some here have said the Phillie is less recognized here as contrasted to Europe where it is the prime coin over there. Its a toss up I suppose, but the 160 Shilling floor value is nice, eh?

Still I go with the Maple. If you want the US$310 backing go to the Mountie ( Canada ) recently released. Has a 3 year buy back garrantee from the Canadian mint at US$310 each. I like the idea of a coin ( in good condition ) because its pretty easy to tell if its been tampered with. The 1 troy ounce weight is nice, not too small. Has that heft to it. No one will ask that you to send it to a refiner to prove it. Almost looks like "money" as do all the bullion coins.

Yes RYO has high cash production costs ( $343 avrg. of all mines shown in the 1996 annual report ) . Considering that some fat can be always trimmed, together with unprofitable mine closings, it could come down to probably $280 - without Kemess. I was debating options of the metal vs. RYO and decided on the last. The metal must move for RYO to survive.

Trinovant: thx for the clarification

Yes RYO has high cash production costs ( $343 avrg. of all mines shown in the 1996 annual report ) . Considering that some fat can be always trimmed, together with unprofitable mine closings, it could come down to probably $280 - without Kemess. I was debating options of the metal vs. RYO and decided on the last. The metal must move for RYO to survive.

POG is being driven down in an attempt to get mom&dad investor out. New EU currency will be backed by gold as will they control a large % of reserves.
Think about it - to some of you this makes since.

If you use a word processor to write your longer posts, you will never lose them permanently in cyberspace. Then you can use the spell checker. I think I have seen definately here a hundred times.

The POG was driven down so that INVESTORS
would have no where else to go but to paper
in this time of extreme crisis in the world.

Without intervention, the POG would be somewhere
around 500.00+ by now. The flight to quality
was pre-empted this time around at great sacrifice
to miners and holders of gold.

The orchestrated effort on the part of the CB'S
was clear manipulation.

Lots of buying and selling today.

That is my feel on it, Brothers

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/rubin_hail_1.html

forward, What do you think, Folks

So charles, I dont believe Asia has even begun to affect our markets yet what with the Dow at 8000. Whats your guess on when the POG will be allowed to trade freely again. My guess is sometime in the 3 or 4 quarter. I think thats when it hits the fan.

From USA Gold today. New mont layoffs, new gold market realities.



USAGOLD's

DAILY MARKET REPORT/For Current Quotes Call 1-800-869-5115
01/29/98
Open
+/- PrevClose
Close
+/-Prev Close
Gold
304.00
- 2.00
Silver
6.04
-. 01
Platinum
389.5
- 1.20

COMEX Gold Stocks
428,291
- 1,608


MARKET UPDATE ( 01/29/98 ) AM-----

ANALYSIS

The markets appeared to be biding their time with all eyes on the Greenspan testimony before Congress this
morning. Gold recovered from an attempt by the shorts to run it lower in yesterday's COMEX aftermarket. The
COMEX evening-, or after-, market is notoriously thin and the shorts attempted to turn the tide there to no avail.
When trading opened in Hong Kong, there was strong physical demand from both New York commission houses
and Japanese investors. The uptrend continued in London with strong hedge fund and bullion bank short covering,
as well as some hedge fund buying at these levels. Now as New York opens the shorts are back and the market is
down early. Underlying the short term battle over the gold price are three major factors to which gold's recent
strength can be attributed:

1. The strategy of aggressive, highly profitable short selling has been undermined by the Asian currency crisis. The
crisis created very strong demand throughout Asia -- the exact opposite of what the mainstream press has led us to
believe. USAGOLD sources tell us that the demand for gold coins of any kind in Asia is so strong that it is
beginning to affect the supply in Europe and the United States. In India for example, where a devaluation and
currency crisis in 1994 preceded the problems in the rest of Asia, public demand for gold is unprecedented. Now in
the rest of Asia a similar economic experience is creating substantial gold demand that is unlikely to wane. That
demand is new factor in the market that the shorts were not factoring into the equation. Watch for a sea change in
the gold market if the shorts are run out. Though they have been a formidable force in recent years, this could very
well be their last hurrah. Interestingly enough, in Thailand where the government sent out the military to collect
"gold donations" from the public, the talk this morning is about issuing bonds backed by gold collected from their
people -- another of many signs that the hoarding of gold by both individuals and nation states has become part of
the "new" economic policy. Along these lines, the Korean government, which emphasized in their gold collection
efforts that the gold would be used to pay down their outstanding international debt, has now switched gears and
announced that they will keep their gold for future, emergency use if needed.

2. The central banks of Europe have withdrawn from the market as gold sellers and lenders until at least after
summer, 1998 when Maastricht goes into effect. The Maastricht rules state that no central bank can dispose of gold
without the permission of the new European Central Bank. This is because the new currency is likely to be at least
5% -- possibly as high as 25% -- backed by the Midas metal. The recent situation with Italy where that country was
encouraged not to dispose of any gold is a very strong signal of the current attitudes toward gold in Europe. In
reality, given that Europe never was a major factor in the gold market on the supply side anyway, the policy with
regard to Italian gold sales is not surprising. The public pronouncements on gold from Europe are uniformly bullish
for the metal in the medium to long term and this has not been lost on either the paper short sellers in New York
and London, or the physical accumulators globally.

3. The mining companies which have been a major factor on the short side of the market have been criticized for a
form "industrial suicide" as they aggressively shorted the very commodity that literally put food on the table. This
morning Newmont announced laying off 500 workers and trimming operations. The junior companies are lined up
in succession peering into the abyss hoping that the company in back of them won't push them over the cliff. It's
time the mining companies became mining companies again instead of paper traders beefing up their balance sheets
by playing along with the short-sellers. Wiser and cooler heads may prevail in the long run, but the Walgreen
madness that has consumed the mining industry is not likely to go away. Until they wake up to what's happening
to them, my advice to mine company execs would be to keep those resumes updated and ready for submission.
There's going to be alot of people looking for jobs. As far as the gold market is concerned, the mine closures etc
mean less gold reaching the market and less gold to be shorted in the future. They will continue to sell forward but
it will be interesting to see if they have enough gold to cap the market. Also along these lines, if the central banks
are not willing to lend, the mines cannot borrow. This obvious conundrum has been lost in all the recent discussion
on gold but it is an obviously important fundamental factor.

We will forego much discussion on today's markets because of the time spent on the above analysis and leave this
on over the weekend for all fellow gold-meisters to read.

What you just read is a continuation of themes pursued in two recent articles by this page's editor published by
MoneyWorld magazine and The Financial Sentinel -- articles that caught the public's attention due to their timely
forecast. One is entitled, "In Search of the Midas Touch" which examines the quandary short sellers find themselves
in. The other is "Seven Reasons Gold May Go Higher Sooner than You Think"--the title being self explanatory.
These are available by e-mailing your request. Click the E-Mail button on the Home Page and leave your name,
address, telephone. No articles will be sent without complete information. Please do not request the articles unless
you have an interest in making a gold purchase at some point in the near to medium term and sincerely consider
USAGOLD a likely source for that metal.

FREE TRIAL SUBSCRIPTION TO NEWS &VIEWS: Forecasts, Commentary & Analysis on the Economy and Precious
Metals -- the controversial monthly commentary on the gold market -- GO TO:

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



I guess it's not holding.

If there is a strike of force by the US military against Iraq the entire picture will change in the metals markets, completely change.. IMHO

Looks like the widely anticipate pullback has arrived. The gold complex probably will drop further the next day or two before the nascent uptrend reasserts itself. I will be very surprised if bullion doesn't dip below $300 again on this pullback.

I am appreciating the inter-day action on these markets. My take is that there are repeated and significant upside impulses followed by good consolidation periods which show little weakness ( as compared to November through December period ) . Australian's have tried to drive this market down a few times and basicly failed to do so ( wonder who is short or hungry for cash?? ) . The demand in Asia is a refreshing change ( in perception ) and hopefully it will consolidate into a change in long term investment pattern rather than a reactionary fling. Thailand to support a 'gold-bond' for savings? Now THAT is what we like to hear, eh? Pretty soon the other Asian countries will follow suit, no?

Tonight's COMEX numbers should be interesting indeed. FirstDayNotice tomorrow? Watch out world, wEBe watchin'. If this does not blow open in the next few days because of alot of contract deliveries, etc it still seems to me that we will have a continuing trend such as the past 10 days or so. At least I'm hoping so!

It is still very interesting to me that the futures market dwarfs the physical market and wags it around like a tail on a dog. The whole world has been commoditized I suppose. But the physical gold and silver situations seem to be operating in a vastly different mode than the paper world. Is it possible that gold and silver are in ascending demand when people continually sell the price down on paper??? How can this be? Shouldn't increased demand for the physical be reflected in price increases? Truly 'Alice in Wonderland' stuff to me. Head hurtin' just tryin' ta think about it.

BBTomorrow

Mike Kosares, owner of USAgold, called again this morning to update me on a British sovereign order. For my money, this thoughtful fellow has one of the best understandings of the dynamics of today's gold market of all the gold meisters that I have encountered. As opposed to many gold trading/investment gurus, he is very generous with his market insights and trading techniques.

His daily market analysis and/or its appropriate url is posted here at Kitco frequently and I sense he is proud to be a Kitco contributor in this manner. But when we do post his work, we should be careful to acknowledge him as the author so as not to diminish his entitlement to this fine penmanship.

Questionnaire  Investigation of muzzle-loader new-fashioned phrase slaughterer .

there are things on the near horizon that are fixing to
turbo-charge gold......

same-thing for the grains.........except in the reverse direction....

check-out......... http://www.agrivisor.com/

hmmmmmmmmmmm........could this be possible? hell yes......the opposite
of the majorities opinion..........best way to win big, for little....

puts are STILL cheap..............ALLABOARD.....

time for realism......eh realistic? how about those european curriencies?
want to re-post your re-post of my post saying they were going down?
naw...........don't blame you......

ted-----told you 1 month ago where the c$ was going.....watch-out.....
she still has wings........

cherokee!;....surfing-the-other-side-of-the-wave-------mighty-peaceful--

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/u_s_banks__3.html

volume on NYSE at 746 million shares.

Gold didn't do too badly today considering the surge in the dollar index and treasury bonds. Further short-term weakness all but assured, but still looks like the fundamental trend has changed

Precious metal  wealth riches -gold coin - heavy metal - golden trinkets - beaten gold - gold alloy - gold plate - deep yellow  flaxen  ochroid  aureate - wheat-colored  Antiquity with nix equivocation.

I do agree with your summation. However,
the funds have been dumping in what cash they
have to steady the market place. I guess it may
take 3-4 more months before everyone tires of
trying to keep the aging bull from dying.

When Bill resigns, the market just may use that
as an excuse to let it go. Also- we are growing
closer to that period in the political cycle
when it is deemed wise, by one and all, to stand
clear and take the medicine towards the mid part
of the Presidents term.

A couple of bad, back to back, trade deficits
coupled with some worse than expected Corporate
profits should do the trick. When SE Asia starts
bringing home the flight money that went into
US bonds the economy will tank for sure in a
big way. Just imagine interest rates backing up
at exactly the wrong time.

Gloom and Doom. Oh my. It is good to be able
to smile when the s--t hits the fan.

It is only now that I may look back upon my life and realize just how hollow and meaningless it was without gold. Gold is the truth in this age of lies.

Old Gold = Patriarchal ochroid -----Away to find Ted lost in the tsunami of dough C$

I appreciate all the news I get from this site, truly informative and at times enlightening. Thanks Bart, thanks all.

The above is a good gold chart that may or may not have been posted here before.

Ted was brutally ravished by beautiful wood nymphs for his role in the killing of innocent trees....now he is the defoliated one. Poor Timbered Ted...at least he was taken from us in the manner he had always wished to go. poor ted....

Dear folks,

Thank you for all your helpful comments about the supposed Asian gold sales. I've recently seen some news that not only does Korea not even have 100 tonnes of gold to sell, as the FT article implied, but the gov't has announced that they will hold off selling any gold for 'at least a few months.' My guess is that they'll just use the gold donations to build up some gold reserves, since they can't raise them by selling US$ 'reserves' such as treasury debt.

What a ripoff for the average Joe. They sell their gold to the government, and get paid in devalued Won a few months later with a bond that has to be held to maturity.

General, if you have nothing to say which is GOLD related,
I can find you a few homosexual URL's to keep you busy.

Just for the record ( for the last time! ) :
About 1.5% of population are homosexuals.
About 80% of priests are homosexuals.

This is not surprizing at all
if you will take the time to study
the history of sex and corruption in the Vatican.

WebCrawler has 25774 references to that:
http://webcrawler.com/cgi-bin/WebQuery?searchText=vatican+sex+corruption&src=ns

One of the Popes even had a whore house in the Vatican.

Dow/Gold Ratio = 26.34

Studio_R  If Led Zepplin and James Brown found soul in the bucket of Ricky Nelson then dissolution is not far for the greenback ------Away to descry the ever elusive Ted.

XAU/Spot Ratio = .249

Gold/Silver Ratio = 49.71

Trinovant & SDR--Apparently there are some producing wells in France.
There is a Canadian Co. over there that is having some success proving up reserves using 3D imaging technology, as well as horizontal drilling & other technologies developed by innovative Canadian Co.s in the last few years.

Ziva, if you have nothing to say which is GOLD related,
I can find you a few Ziva URL's to keep you busy.

only 45 : ( sorry.

http://webcrawler.com/cgi-bin/WebQuery?search=Ziva&src=wc_results

Silver related:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/mexico_jan_1.html

ZIVA- Young fox ----cocksure ----- comprehend yuppie town character ---audience for priggishness ---Now tell me anything about the coming overflowing Gold Arrest.

Donald--I just stated that the S&L crisis was fixed. I did'nt say that I agreed with the way that it was fixed.
I think that you will have to admit that once the extent of the damage was known, prompt & effective action was taken. Totally unlike the situation in Japan that has been festering for at least a decade.
Even though they have their printing presses running full out, producing incredible amounts of Yen ( I think that on just 1 day they increased the # of yen in circulation by 1 % ) they are still pushing on a string.
Their bureaucracy & banks are totally corrupt & unfortunately their citizens will have to pay for the excesses & blunders. Far more on a per capita basis than was paid by the U.S. citizens IMO.

Your post on the meeting in Switzerland was the first I had seen of it. Why does the "free" world spend so much time trying to reverse free market forces? They should forget the meetings and just get out of the way.

I was attempting to be ironic...

and I'll gratefully sign!

Free market, what free market, where, what planet.

You are right. It was prompt and effective action. Sort of like my not waiting a minute when I am short of cash. Just put on my ski mask and run down to the 7-11 and shout, "stick 'em up!" That is what the Fed did to solvent depositors to bail out their S&L brethern. They should put a permanent sign on the door of still open banks saying, "caution: holdup in progress"

RYO is currently getting a royal roasting from the NWT Water board at renewal meeting for their water license at Giant mine. They have a very serious problem related to old arsenic stored underground, which they plan to retrieve and sell.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/franco_nev_1.html

Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Fell 322 troy ounces to 427,969

Silver: Fell 415,513 troy ounces to 103,819,536 - A new 13 year low!

Quiet day today, especially in Silver compared to yesterday.

Both Gold ( 300 ) and Silver ( 600 ) are wrestling again with important psychological barriers.

Caution and prudence are needed, extreme volatility can redevelop at anytime!

Midas: Re: Your prediction about a session with Iraq. Are we talking about a brief sortie with stealth bombers, smart bombs and cruise missles? Or something more like the Kuwait war? My guess is that it will be mostly for show, rather than to eliminate Saddam -- unless priorities have changed. I wonder, do we know where the 5,000 gallons ( ? ) of Anthrax, the tons of VX nerve gas, and the x pounds on botulinum toxin are kept? I hope noone we like is downwind if we do. If these are all in hardened underground sites, I don't think we have anything non-nuclear that would work, despite the talk. Now -- if we had a kinetic orbital weapon with impact energy equal to a nuclear weapon -- that would work. But -- my guess is we don't have this -- not yet anyway.

Good thing we don't have any extraterrestrial antagonists, because a nice big asteroid kinetic weapon would make messy nuclear weapons obsolete.

I am a bit worried about Israel. If the battle with Iraq does not end quickly, the Israeli's might not stand by quietly this time while Saddam lobs a few missles with ( ? ) in them. The US doesn't have the firepower we had during the Kuwait war. Hope the Patroit missles work better, too!

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/mexico_pes_1.html

Opps, that should have read you and SDRer_R not JTF.

What's that funny leg up at 16:30 EST on Kitco's spot gold chart? www.kitco.com/gold.graph.html

Did someone at COMEX forget to count all the orders or is Bart trying to cheer us up? Or maybe whoever tallies up at COMEX was too busy "not having a sexual relationship" with BC?

Believe it or not, I actually know TWO women who are not having a sexual relationship with BC.

FYI - US Government is selling GOLD!!!
Look under Gold Stock, it was 11,050 not to long ago.

http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/releases/H41/Current/

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/cbrs_downg_1.html

Avalon: The starting bell just rung down under. I've been up very late the last couple of nights ( I live in NJ, so I must be crazy or turning into an imsomniac ) and noticed Nick's been logging in somewhat later.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/greenspan__3.html>http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/greenspan__3.html http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/greenspan__3.html
AG to Congress "IMF NEEDS FUNDING" because of "low probability
of another Asia CRISIS"...can you believe this reasoning?

KIWI: In your posting regarding War you mention that if the US attacks Iraq, a few canisters of Anthrax might arrive on the Pacific West Coast. As an inhabitant of LA I find such ideas troubling to say the least. What leads you to suggest that? Why the West Coast as oposed to, God forbid, Washington D.C. or New York? Just curious as to your source of information... Thanks.

Donald, SDRer: I have the same problem in my profession. Once a belief system has been set up, anything outside that belief system cannot exist, and the individuals who have committed their lives to whatever it is -- be it religion, physics or finance -- will do everything in their power to maintain that reality.
In physics the old belief system generally does not die until the old believers do, it seems -- unless someone slips in some experimental result that gets out before anyone knows the consequences, and upsets the applecart. But -- with economic systems, there is a built in mechanism that works even if the "old guard" is still alive -- and we are seeing that happen as we speak. Lets just hope us little gold bugs can ride the gold bug Tsunami, and know where to get off!

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/u_s_banks__3.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/u_s_would__1.html

Ziva, don't touch my brother John
Disney, he is the holy man.

FWIW - I found out today that one of my brokers ( Smith Barney ) can buy Australian shares with a $2000 minimum trade, exclusive of brokerage fees. My trade was executed very quickly in the ovenite secondary market. I suppose this may be typical of any full-service broker in the U.S., so check with yours before you decide to find another broker down under.

at home, but if it were, I would probably never sleep !

Are the frames working on your machines? Haven't been getting quotes today; not sure if I should be working on fixing it at this end.

@Studio.R: Gold makes it all worthwhile, but don't forget sex, drugs and Rock and Roll. On the other hand, humour is safer.

Here is a bookmark for all, for the pause that refreshes:
http://www.cagle.com/scandal/scandal32.asp

Stradmaster: Before you put too much stock in the gov'
ts propaganda about Saddam, consider this: If you learned that your neighbor had a barrel of anthrax in his garage, what would you say if I proposed to take care of the situation by throwing a grenade into the barrel? If Saddam REALLY has enough anthrax to kill us all, does it make any sense to drop bombs on the plants where it is stored? Wouldn't that release it into the atmosphere, where everyone, including Billary, would be able to inhale it? HMMMMMMMMM?

These are non starter suits where the govt pays the indians legal fees to sue cos to assert rights. This suit has lost at all otrher attempts. With the jobs at stake and the Govt royalty interest the same will occur again. Mines proftable at 320/ cash flow positive at 290. With Kermess much lower. The other prperties they have have massive potential at low cost. Kemess is the lynch pin to becoming a lowlow
cost producer. Kemess also has some silver.

January 26, 1998
( 1/1/98 ) Dear Bob, On several occasions you have been kind enough to reply to my questions
personally. I have come across a reference on the net which is fairly self explanatory, and upon
which I would value your comment. Reprint from Futures Magazine, sent in to the "SOUND OFF!"
section of the Jan. 1998 edition: "Frost and Prechter's Elliot wave counts place supercycle wave C
at the low of 1932. If instead you believe R.N. Elliot and Hamilton Bolton, supercycle wave C ended
in 1946. This leads to supercycle wave I ending at 1000 in late 1965, as predicted by Bolton in
1953, followed by supercycle wave II ending in 1982, and we currently are in the middle of the
biggest, strongest supercycle wave III. ( My wave counts indicate that within supercycle wave III,
1982-87 was cycle wave I, and 1992-1997 was cycle wave III, with cycle waves IV and V yet to
come, before we even get to supercycle waves IV and V. ) Elliot predicted that supercycle wave V
would top out in 2012. Personally, I'm holding out for the year 2029, so we can celebrate the 100th
anniversary of the 1929 crash with another one. We have a long way to go before the dreaded ABC
correction of this supercycle and the next great depression."

If Elliott himself ( and Hamilton Bolton ) did make the above described 1946 count, and the year
2012 supercycle V prediction, it would seem to lend some weight to the interpretation described in
the above quoted article, and fit will with the demographic fundamentals, which I understand you do
not agree with. I realize that you are firmly of the view that the supercycle V reaction is upon us
already, but also that you would have sound reasons for disagreeing with Elliot and Bolton. Yours
faithfully, David Bennett, Brisbane Australia
Reply from Bob Prechter


Thanks for sending this in. First of all, it is nice to have the facts stated correctly. Elliott's date for the end
of wave ( IV ) was 1942, not 1946, and Bolton's date was 1949, not 1946. Second, each of these men
made it crystal clear that they viewed those years as
ending wave ( IV ) , which means all subdivisions from there must be of Cycle, not Supercycle degree.
Finally, the proper reference for this information is not a third party publication from 1955, but the actual
words of the authors. So if you want to know the whole story, read "RN Elliott's Masterworks," "RN
Elliott's Market Letters," and "The Complete Elliott Wave writings of A. Hamilton Bolton," all of which are
available from Elliott Wave International in Gainesville, GA or from our web site at elliottwave.com.

Also relevant are the following pertinent facts: ( 1 ) Bolton made the first case against Elliott's 1942 date,
which I agree with, ( 2 )
according to Frost, Bolton changed his mind shortly after his own Bank Credit Analyst published Collins'
analysis in 1966 that properly labels 1932 as the low of wave ( IV ) . ( 3 ) Bolton's "triangle" works with the
inflation-adjusted DJIA, which point I made way back in 1980 ( see Appendix to Elliott Wave Principle ) .
However, that fact is NOT long-term bullish. In terms of real money ( gold ) , the DJIA has just climbed
back to its 1966 level, meaning that it is in the process of ending a "B" wave in those terms. See the
chart in Appendix C of "At the Crest of the Tidal Wave." ( 4 ) The quantity ( extent ) of a wave does not
change its quality. The advance from 1974/1982 is a fifth wave in all respects. Just because it is large
does not mean that we should cast about for a different label. ( 5 ) As to Elliott's projection of a top in 2012,
he simply said that wave ( V ) would probably last about as long as wave ( III ) , which he counted from 1857
to 1928. 71 years added to 1941 ( the date he used, being a year early on his "major bottom" call ) gave
him 2012. However, I am quite sure that Elliott would not be defending this rough projection as a pinpoint
forecast were he alive today. As far as I'm concerned, it already qualifies as a great call by Elliott. His
point was that wave ( V ) would last decades, not just a few years. As a final note, it annoys me that
people do not cite their sources when they want to set up a phony conflict. Elliott's forecast chart is on
page 307 of "RN Elliott's Masterworks," which I published and edited.--RP

G'day Avalon,Silverbaron,all.
Just up and with a helluva hangover--but it was worth it.
Aussie golds down slightly this a.m. but many holding ground well. I wouldn't mind a bit of a dip so's I can buy back what I sold yesterday. Now where is that coffee?

All- DROOY is like buying options on gold and now that it had more than doubled for me I am buyin RYO with both hands, if they go down
I will buy more! Now if you don't believe gold issa goin up these may not be a good investment but if you do believe gold issa goin up the potential is huge. RYO will survive and is not hedged! You could have a $10 stock with both of these if gold returned to the levels of a year ago. and if gold ever does take off you can't imagine how high the potential, we have calculated $50 for DROOY if gold gets to $500 and stays there for a while.
I am with CHEROKEE and believe the s--t issa goin to hit the fan soon!

Tally Ho

Just caught this news before I went to drill & fill & bill and didn't have much time to do any real research. So I said

I am the p!ssed off owner of BRE-X, PGU and RYO, amongst other lemons suggested by touts on this board. Wonder why you're not all as poor as me, what you got to be so damned happy about. Did no one else lose money in the silver fake out?

I could do with some anthrax. Kiwi, where should I move to? What part of PacNW? gotta end this fiasco, anthrax, mad cow disease, what do I care?

If there's any aliens watching--- I wanna be abducted by aliens so I can sell my story to ziva.

Hey green slimy thing ---- Probe me!

Just caught this news before I went to drill & fill & bill and didn't have much time to do any real research. So I said

Stradmaster, Oldman: If Saddam is going to do anything in the US with biological/chemical weapons, he does not need a high-tech missle to do it. Remember the business with the hamburger recall? The Mexican strawberries? Or -- how about botulinum toxin in the water supply of some large city? This would be much easier than smuggling in one of those suitcase nuclear weapons, and much cheaper, too! Great insurance, too, if he has secretly informed the American authorities in advance. We would think twice about bombing Iraq -- or would we? I hope I am wrong about that last comment. Says something in favor of living in small towns, and only buying locally grown produce, doesn't it?

Just caught this news before I went to drill & fill & bill and didn't have much time to do any real research. So I said " to- HELL- with- it" I'm going to live on the edge and buy now and do the research later. ( Won't have been the first time!! ) symb. BAN on toronto exchangeat 80 - 90 cents canadian 60 - 70 cents U.S. ....My wife can't believe I bought I such a toot. How about you fellows???????????????????????Thursday January 29, 8:09 am Eastern Time

Company Press Release

Band-Ore Resources New Platinum-Palladium Discovery

TORONTO-- ( BUSINESS WIRE ) --Jan. 29, 1998--Band-Ore Resources L ( TSE:BAN. - news )
Band-Ore Resources is pleased to announce a new platinum group element ( PGE ) discovery in
Timmins, Ontario. The 100 percent owned, 270 claim unit ( 10,800 acre ) property, is located in
Nordica and McEvay townships, approximately 15 km southeast of the Golden Knight/Cross Lake
polymetallic discoveries in Sheraton township.

Initial assay results from surface grab samples prepared by independent laboratories indicate the
presence of 0.30 percent copper, 0.30 percent nickel, 1.1 g/t palladium plus highly anomalous
platinum and anomalous rhodium values. Reconnaissance work by the Company and the Ontario
resident geologist's office indicate the mineralization is located in a classic layered mafic to
ultramafic intrusive complex with many similarities to the well-known Bushveld complex in South
Africa and the Stillwater complex in Montana. Layered intrusive complexes of this type host
significant nickel, copper, PGE, and chromite deposits throughout the world.

Additional assay results are pending, including petrographic analyses and whole rock geochemical
results.

In preparation for a diamond drilling program to evaluate the surface showing, ground geophysical
surveys are underway on a large airborne anomaly with an indicated strike length of over 20 km. A
second airborne magnetic anomaly is present on the property with an indicated strike length of
approximately 15 km. A highly magnetic, olivine rich rock unit ( troctolite ) is believed to be present
which will provide a useful marker horizon in conjuction with magnetic and electromagnetic surveys.
Was I CRAZY?????? Dr. BOB

triple OOPS!!!

Kiss Ziva and continue predicting...

Saddam has had plenty of time to smuggle anthrax spores into the
US. All he has to do is tell the US that he has agents in major cities
waiting to release the dust. No need for expensive ICBMs. If we can't stop tons & tons of cocaine, heroine, morphine from entering America, what makes us think we could stop a few kilograms of spores?

What the hell could we do? Nothing.

We'd just start drop'n dead - major panic - etc. Hopefully we'd be prepared with ready antibiotics - supposing, of course, that that
thug-murder-of-children-and-women hasn't made them resistant to most antibiotics.

In any case, such an act would be more than enough for me to nuke Iraq into radioactive glass.

The best thing to do, however, is to just get out of Iraq & simply blockade them 'till hell freezes over.

Oldman--Luckily for the U. S. Gov't,people like yourself who have the ability to think & reason for themselves only comprise about 10 % of the population.

Oops. We agree. Sorry for the dupo.

Spud, from his hermetically sealed lab...

Per Chinese culture the Year of the Tiger which greets us today every 12th year is synonymous with CHANGE and STRENGTH. And indeed it was so the last Year of the Tiger - 1986.

The dawn of the last Year of the Tiger saw a low in the price of Chuk Kam ( GOLD ) of $330 per troy ounce. It heralded a dramatic reversal in the price trend of precious yellow... for during the next two years the Midas metal soared relentlessly to a high of $502 - reached in December 1987. An increase of over 52%.

Historically, gold and silver stocks as a group appreciate 3-4 TIMES GREATER than the percent increase in the value of bullion. Should history repeat, we are talking an increased XAU value of 156% to 240% - POSSIBLY BEFORE THE MILLENNIUM. And one would expect many individual gold and silver stocks to zoom far more.

The above scenario echoes the STRENGTH characteristic of the Year of the Tiger. How about the CHANGE? Well, we are all watching IT as I speak... of course I am referring to the dramatic economic, financial and monetary CHANGE sweeping through all Asia. The resulting domino Effect is currently extending to distant shores... for example, most industrialized nations reducing GNP growth estimates for 1998, Deutsche Bank ( Germanys largest ) talking about restructuring due to its horrendous losses incurred in its Asian Loan Portfolio, Switzerlands UBS brought to humble take-over by Swiss Bank Corp. due to its Korean Adventures, Dutch Banks face loss of hundreds of millions in Asian bad loans, the Mexican Peso on the verge of another massive devaluation, China daily denying the possibility of a 25%-40% devaluation, and ad nauseam. YES, we are all undergoing draconian CHANGE, and IN SPADES!

Interestingly, GOLD is demonstrating all the earmarks of STRENGTH... LONG LIVE THE TIGER!

HAPPY NEW YEAR - 29 January 1998

http://www.jai2.com/1986.htm

I'm not particularly worried about Saddam - he's very predictable; it's the other guys ( Syria, Iran ) that are the wild card, I think. Any thoughts on all the suitcase nukes which are not accounted for?

Owned this puppy for 3 years .Good track record and will really run Also has 440000oz reserve of GOLD .Good Bof D .Give them a call and get all the facts.

Comments

tells it like it is but as usual falls on deaf ears at the goldbug conspiracy page.

Spudmaster: I do not know how many women and children Saddam has murdered, thuogh he surely has murdered some. Is the number greater than the number murdered by the Israelis in their hundreds of attacks on villages full of innocents in Lebanon? Is it even greater than the four score or so that Klinton murdered at Waco?

Last week there was a discussion, on this forum, about 3 woman from the middle east who were intercepted by big brother. These woman were taken into custody last year as they attempted to enter the U.S. in possession of bio-warfare agents stored in canisters secreted in their reproductive areas. I firmly believe the U.S. presently houses anti U.S. agents waiting for the word. The only question is what series of events would cause the keeper of the word to speak. I only tooooo happy to be leaving New York in Feb.

When wil PGU gorw a new set of wings?

Oldman: Any comments about gold? Yesterday's apparent F Veneroso post suggests a war has begun between the 'titan' Hedge funds, with one switching to the long side.

Any comments about SEAsia causing inflation or deflation here? I was amazed to see how much financial liquidity had dropped in that part of the world, so I would guess the cheap goods Tsunami might not be as big as one might expect, and perhaps inflation would be the dominant result in the gold ole USA.

Is the IMF secretly selling its gold?
Is it secretly "loaning" its gold?
Where else does Veneroso come up with his 8000 tonnes?

LONDON, Jan 29 ( AFP ) - A giant Antarctic ice sheet more than 100
miles ( 160 kilometers ) across is breaking up because of a rapid rise
in climate temperature, British scientists warned Thursday.
The sheet is so large it could disrupt the Gulf Stream, the warm
current of water which flows north from the mid-Atlantic to the west
British coast and warms the country far beyond the norm for its
closeness to the North Pole, experts including the British Antarctic
Survey reported.
They added that the Larsen B ice shelf on the eastern side of
the frozen continent will eventually disintegrate.
At the moment it is described as "critically unstable," and
unless the retreat of the ice halts, is expected to collapse over
the next two years.
A total of five thousand square miles ( 13,000 sq kilometres ) of
ice in the region has so far disappeared due to atmospheric warming,
but the Larsen is the biggest so far, the report noted.
Temperatures around the icecap are rising five times faster than
the global average and signs of warming are evident all around the
coast, with grass growing in areas once too cold to support it.

strad-man-----

i have ---some-where the report ziva alluded to here
recently about the iraqui women ( 5 ) caught in the mid-west
with anthrax spores hidden in body cavities.....the report
is credible......the links in the article are highly informative....

i'll post some more url's..........somewhere amongst them, are these
reports......they will cause you to re-think your position relative
to the masses!

http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/unrep.htm

more coming.........

gold options are on sale today.......buy on the dips......

cherokee...........

truth or SPECULATION? russia....the bear only slumbers.....


http://www.inforamp.net/~jwhitley/russ.htm

Please don't confuse me with some person from some time ago. I found this site Dec.18, 1997. I am rufus@vh.net from outside New York City. I am not that person Barbara something.

When your working with the best why worry about the rest!!! See Peter Lynch at Http://www.worth.com/articles/Z9711EO1.html

Don't dispear, Margrete Witte took a rag tag group of mines and made them work, now she has the potential of a low cost profit maker. IMHO its the present gold price and the high cost of putting Kemess into production that is hurting RYO. Perhaps the stated production costs lower than what will eventually be seen, but with a reasonable gold price Kemess will make it.

good info from israeli perspective----

best real-time.....

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Article-1.html

and the last for today.......

http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/content.html

ziva------do you have the url for the report on the
iraqi women caught with the anthrax, and the associated
link?

post it.........if you have it.......

SilverBaron: I think Allen ( USA ) is right that the suitcase Nukes could be detected with Satellite-based scanning aperture radiation detectors. However, some might have gotten through if our people were asleep at the switch, because these devices have to be aimed in the right direction, and it takes time to get enough counts to locate the device. I hope someone in our intelligence service is keeping a runnling tally of all the missing Nukes. My hope is that we have found all of them -- but we will never know, will we? If one got through our detection web, it might be possible to hide it deep underground in the US, so that the radiation could not be detected. But -- once anyone tried to move it -- it would show up, I think.

Lets hope we or someone else has done away with any individuals that have one of those little diabolical devices.

The solution for the defence of the U.S.against
biological war is to recruit all available U.S.
genecologists. Thanks to Ziva, we now know that
Saddam plans to deliver his biological weapons
to the U.S. inside Iraqi women's v...as.

This is the threat that modern world never faced...
I think we are in trouble...I think the U.S. scientists
must develop compact laser guided disposable high-speed
hollowpoint p....s, A.S.A.P., for field use by the military.

We should stop those Saddam's women...

do you remeber when the women were arrested and in what city

ok shlomo-----

the 'other' shlomo-------no prob......

aztec------

kansas city was one of them......

Sorry, did not to imply that Saddam had anything over on most world "leaders". The only thing most world "leaders" lead in is thuggery.

Murder is murder, not matter how the leaders try to hide it.

Mankind's greatest flaw is that we all too easily succumb to conmen.

All:

While brer AL is talking about the big sloooowdown which is on the way the big money machine keeps on churnin. Last week saw another increase in M3 to the tune of $14.7 billion.

On a related topic, some small anecdotal evidence of inflation in the big apple ( NYC ) . Some friends of mine purchased two apartments next to each other 2 years ago and broke down some walls to make one bigger one. Total cost around $375,000. They are about to sell out for $725,000.

LAST HURRAH. OR MAYBE ITS THE FLU.

Goodness gracious you have a high opinion of our population.Only 90 %
mushrooms.
From my perspective it is closer to 96, or 97 %.

Not tom be agrumentative. Just an opinion.

Either way, there is a lot of manure spread from D.C. hourly.

My wild-eyed postman just delivered me a fine box of British sovereigns...beautiful small gold coins that are just right for every occasion...get some before it's too late. You too can be a sovereign state...financially speaking... ( I'm still buying...cherOkee ) .

I think you ought to come up with a name for this new venereal disease...

Do you think this report could be another propaganda deal to get us to back BJC's going after Saddam? Remember the Kuwaiti ambassador's daughter on CNN claiming she witnessed Iraqi soldiers disconnecting life support from premature infants?

Rays of hope for the Sunshine Mines

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/980129/sunshine_m_1.html

kiwi-----

the ice sheet you refer to was 'outed' here last
year in great detail....scientists have been watching
this scenario for over 5 years.....it finally made some
copy last year....and kitco knew too........

the net is incredible.......knowledge and truth the quarry......

since no one can, apparently, post any link to an authoritative source, I am completely ignoring the "Iraqi women-with-anthrax".

Ziva is a looney.

( EB: "It's people like you what causes social unrest" )

shlomo------

the report i read was at least 6 months ago.......

it is not realted to bjc.....yet...

The US$ is up sharply overseas trading up another 1.20 Yen up vs Mark
and SF......Gold is haging in there only down .40... I see a weaker opening for Gold, however IF it holds above 300 with this very strong rally in the US$ ,then my view is that Gold for the first time in a long time is actually going to react upwards with the threat of WAR , as it has done historically, and move from there once hostilities actually begin...
I would also look for a Gold rally after 2 p.m. tomorrow, since
it is friday and as we used to say in the 70's "anything can and
sometimes does happen over a week-end"......Some here have made
light of the possibilities of an Iraqi counter-strike, I would NOT....

occupant of space he or she rules!
AS THE ABOLITIONIST jOHN bROWN REMARKED ( CAN'T REMEMBER THE CONTEXT-JUST THE ReMARK ) :

Nits make lice. Nits being the eggs of lice. Reference was to children at some place and point during his foray/s in Border States.

I give you wjbc. He realized as a youth that he had been shorted in the department of loving family.
Learned to find "satisfaction" thru demeaning of females.

Used them as he has , does and will use men. Just a little diferent form of use.
The women are forced to cater to his sexual perversion.
The men are expected to and do give their cojones on the altar of the clintonista cult.
Many do, as we can see!
Back to original topic: a fly, or ant or rat is NOTHING to the tyrant!! Sex and age are of NO consequence.
Child murderer indeed. Murderer of any one impeding his drive for absolute power.
Methinks he'll get his come-uppance when his masters tire of him and ORDER him to dessert Center Stage. May be sooner than we think--but not so soon as we'd like!!
Sociopathy and psycopathy are very similar. Just a matter of degree which varies from person to person.
Tamerlane, Attilla, Genghis Khan. George the 3rd.
Maximillian. Stalin--Schicklegruber-Lenin-Marx. Mao--and on and on and on.....
Rantings from another of your genre- Hombres viejo!

sorry, i'm just a wide-eyed newbie....learning,learning

A friend asked me about Miramar Mining Corp,
MAENF-Nasdaq
MAE- TSE & VSE
1 21/32 on 75,200 shares today
From what I could quickly find out they have one mine in NA and own a subsidiary who has operartions in SA including Cuba?
any thoughts?

.Supercrabz

I am sticking with my early bold post,backing the President..Jan 21, 21 hrs.

William Jefferson is our MAN in the White House.

Wake-up America the threat is from the VAGINS...!

I am deadly serious...No pun intended.

CENSURED

CENSURED

CENSURED

The treath with Anthrax comming in USA from cavities...CENSURED

Wake-up! Wake-up! or You will hear again some kind of....TORA...TORA...TORA

kiwi-----

i in no way, REALLY mean for you to read all of kitco's archives!

i'll be happy to re-post ANY info i have if anyone needs it.....

words and their meaning easily get dis-combobluated, and anything
connatative.....ends-up being read wrong.......

unless there is a flaming-cyber-arrow protruding from the medulla-
oblogata-----there is nothing to fear........ask away........

Get a clue. Yer a weird dude sometimes. What are you talking about?? And why am I responding to such crap?? Social UNrest.......what the hell does that mean and how does it apply to me?? I still love you though. Quit being such a weenie....

away..... ( shaking his head ) ....... ( and scratching ) .......



and Bart....WHERE IS TED??? He is having trouble gettin in. Is he banned?

South China Business Post
Friday January 30 1998

Finance ministry scandal widens
One day after the departure of finance minister Hiroshi Mitsuzuka, the top bureaucrat at Japan's finance ministry, Takeshi Komura, was also forced to resign amid a spreading scandal involving SEXUAL bribes of ministry officials.

South Korea clinches deal to restructure US$24b in debt
South Korea and its international creditors have agreed to restructure US$24 billion of bank debt, in a big step towards restoring stability to the nation's financial system. ( $24B is a larger figure than I've heard heretofore!??

S&P takes axe to Indonesian bank ratings
Eight of Indonesia's largest banks have had their credit ratings slashed by Standard & Poor's, which said they might try to pay foreign-currency debts with the beleaguered rupiah as part of a government package to keep them afloat.

Wolfensohn seeks to shelter Asia's poor from crisis
World Bank president James Wolfensohn arrives in Thailand today, starting an Asian tour during which he will be looking for ways to help buffer the region's poor against the fallout from the economic meltdown.

Regional crisis puts Moody's upgrades on hold
Moody's Investors Service yesterday warned that the region's economic woes had crushed Australia's and Singapore's hopes of an upgrade of their
foreign currency credit ratings. The Australian dollar slid half a US cent on the news, to close at 67.26 US cents.

http://www.scmp.com/news/business/topbiz.idc

Bought it in about 1990. Held it 'til 1996 ( ? )
Too much searchin' to find exact records, but it paid me nearly 7 or 8 to one return.
Lots of things have changed since then.
Call Rick Rule @ Global Resources : 1-800--477--7853.

They are my stockbrokers. I have enjoyed several highly profitable plays as result of their efforts.

Wally Berukoff is head man @ Miramar, for what it's worth.

Japan and Russia Seek Closer Military Cooperation

Japan and Russia are moving ahead rapidly with plans for increased military
cooperation that were outlined during a November, 1997, summit between
Russian President Boris Yeltsin and Japanese Prime Minister Ryutaro
Hashimoto. Masahiro Akiyama, Deputy Head of the Japanese National Defense
Agency, in Russia this week for a series of meetings with top level Russian
defense officials, announced on Wednesday that Japan would reduce its
military forces on Hokkaido by over 20 percent. Russian Defense Minister
Igor Sergeyev in turn vowed to further reduce Russia's military presence in
the Kurile Islands. According to the Russian Defense Ministry, forces on
the Kuriles have already been cut by over half.

During closed door talks in Moscow, Akiyama, Sergeyev, Admiral Vladimir
Kuroyedov, Commander in Chief of the Russian Navy, and Leonid Ivashov, Head
of the Defense Ministry's Chief Department for International Military
Cooperation, discussed issues of security in Northeast Asia and prospects
for closer Russo-Japanese defense cooperation in the Far East. Akiyama
announced that he regarded the meetings as a major success. He stated that
Tokyo was interested in military-technological cooperation with Russia, bu
was being held back by Japan's self-imposed restrictions on the transfer of
military technology. Akiyama proceeded to discount those restrictions,
stating, "The world is changing, however, and I hope that such cooperation
will be possible in the future."

Akiyama's visit is but the first in a string of military exchanges
scheduled for this year. Japanese military pilots will travel to Russia in
February to train to fly Sukhoi Su-27 fighters. Working groups from the
Russian Navy and the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Forces ( JMSDF ) are
scheduled to meet in March to coordinate future contacts and joint naval
maneuvers. The Commander of Russia's Pacific Fleet, Mikhail Zakharenko,
will meet in April with the JMSDF Chief of Staff. The Head of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff of the Japanese National Defense Agency, Admiral Kazui
Natsukawa, will visit Moscow in May, and the Head of the Russian Armed
Forces General Staff, Anatolii Kvashnin, will make a return visit to Japan
several months thereafter. In a move demonstrating that current pragmatic
reality has vanquished memories of 1905, Kuroyedov invited a ship of the
JMSDF to participate in celebrations of Russian Navy Day in July.

Russo-Japanese relations are surging ahead along non-military fronts as
well. Russian Foreign Ministry official Alexander Losyukov announced on
Monday that an agreement on Japanese fishing rights around the Kuriles
would be signed in a matter of days. Japan's Michinoku Bank, which
specializes in financing trade between Japan and Russia's Far East, will
open a Moscow branch in June, making it the first fully Japanese-owned bank
with offices in Russia. Russian cabinet minister Irina Khakamada on
January 22 called on Japan to assist in bolstering small and mid-sized
Russian businesses. Finally, Japanese and Russian officials are meeting
this week in Moscow to discuss joint exploitation of Russia's Siberian
natural gas reserves.

That Japan and Russia are rushing into each other's arms is not surprising.
Both are feeling intense pressure from the same source--the United States.
Confident, at least for the time being, in the Soviet Union's collapse,
Washington no longer sees the need to suffer economic hardship from Japan
in exchange for Pacific containment of Russia. The U.S. has lost interest
in Vladivostok, and so is free to deal with Japan as it would any other
economic competitor. Japan, which held a special relationship with the
United States for 40 years, now feels maltreated. Russia, fractured and
driven back from Europe, is now turning its attentions East--first to China
and now to Japan. We do not believe that Japan is merely signaling to
Washington a desire for special favors. Tokyo is attempting to wrest
itself, and the Western Pacific, away from Washington's sway. For now,
this means a closer relationship with Russia and perhaps China. What
happens when Russia, Japan, and China each try to assert leadership of this
triumvirate and dominance of East Asia, we will have to wait and see.

___________________________________________________

EB!

I hate to bring it up again, but I don't believe it is anyone's interest to allow blatant

inconsistencies and fallacious argumentation to go unanswered.

The inference that Jesus Christ may be accepted as

Yes ive been hearing this for many years now on shortwave and various other sources.. it is a threat, and it is not hard to percieve how easy it would be to smuggle and release bio-weapons in the US. as someone has said before, if we cant keep drugs and other contraband out of the country ( not implying that it isnt ever let it ) , why not. It has been disscussed between family members and we have purchased the innoculation in a crystal form that is to be taken oarlly. Well it was only a 100 or so dollars and it is for animals. Upon asking ppl in the medical profession, yes it would work on humans in the proper dosages. So either we wont dye from a terrible disease, or weve lost a 100 dollars..
somethin to think about??

I suggest that Ted should be allowed five ( 5 ) cuss words every 24 hours. And the cuss words should carry over from day to day if he doesn't spend his allowance. I'd be willing to go a bit higher if he bargains real tough. Bart lasso this fellow and drag him back. He's a piss poor cop.
EB are you in SD?

I ordered Israeli Simplex NBC ( Nuclear, Biological and Chemical ) gas masks for my family. The gas masks are govenment issue for the Israeli population and you may remember seeing them on CNN during the Gulf War. They come in two sizes adult and children and cost $15.95 each. 800-866-4876 I do'nt expect to use them but they are cheap insurance!

FT--Samer Isakandar
Standar contract for credit derivatives

The first standard contract for CREDIT derivatives was published yesterday by the International Swaps and Derivatives Assoc. Credit derivatives allow investors and traders to protect themselves against, or speculate on, changes in borrowers creditworthiness.


JTF@Halls.of.Acadame You're so right! Yet, the 'marvels'
( e.g. Einstein, Mandelbrot ) publish papers with no attribution
whatsoever! Straight from Minvera's brow...

Thats what I love about this site some people actually answer with facts and information. I think all the CRAP about saadam should be on another

Rumpled my 19:54 hrs was for you....in particular.

I can see it now - Uncle Sam selling 2028 Zero-coupon bonds with credit derivatives attached against USG default......better buy GOLD!

It is a terrible disease.
One of the Arkansas State Police investigators involved in the Clinton scandal investigation was exposed to it.
It was finally figured that the dust was in an envelope from a source bearing a fictitious address, nearly as I can recall.
The man nearly died b 4 some bright medico tumbled to the fact the symptoms he exhibited were those of anthrax.

I have personally spoken with the man and was assured it is HELL to have it.
Sadly, it can even be spilled from a low-flying light plane. Or any other seemingly innoucous means.
MYABE EVEN AN OLD JALOPY DRIVING INTO THE WIND WITH A WINDOW OPEN....???

Dust and inhalation are the best ways to introduce it to living creatures.

Studio.R: Just back from a failed mission to Ottawa where I attempTED to blow out the brain cell of the head of the Canuck Central bank ( Gordon T^%$#%% somethin or other ) but the bullet bounced off the steel plate...Me and James BROWN are havin a run of BAD-luck but our day will come and by-the-way...What's wrong with guns N POT....eh??...Re-cursing: While in my construction phase,I generally spout about 50/minute....Re-wood nymphos: they suk!

Ole Boy Scout motto - Be Prepared. Thanks.

Miramar bought the Con mine in Yellowknife about four years ago. It's the deepest gold mine in North America. Been operating since the 40's, but has kept up its infrastructure much better than RYO's Giant mine. Still has lots of gold, but some of the best zones won't be mined until robot mining discovers the gold industry. Marginally profitable at $300, but has just laid off over 100 personnel.

Thanks for the info. Ill give him a call tomorrow. Ill post the response in the evening.

I did NOT DRIP myself to death~~~~~~~~~~go team gold!!...

the frames version prices ...Futures are down ...the rally above looks suspect....let it be...let it be...hope it's correct...anyone confirm??

How is their debt position? Cash? Etc..

You know, with all the mine closings we would have plenty of space to hide in when the anthrax monster comes creepin around!

D.A.: I admire your solid confidence in inflation over deflation -- it is harder for me to be sure. However, one Kitcoite posted in the last 24 hours that even Malaysias liquidity dropped precipitously. I would expect that foreign trade would require a functioning financial system, so if other SEAsian countries have similar problems, perhaps the 'cheap goods tsunami' is not a problem.

Also I was wondering if the rapid rise in the commodity price index might have something to do with the low liquidity in SEAsia.

Any words of wisdom from someone who knows commodities much better than I?

a.j. - Are you seriously meaning for all here to take you seriously when you claim that you have spoken to said victim PERSONALLY ( as in person? ) . Please confirm. If so we are not just whistling Dixie here. Also you'd better let a few people know the situation , and where you live etc. so that your life is not so easily at risk. Funny things seem to happen to those involved with Presidential scandals. ( Although Hillary appears not to believe in such nonsense - According to her, its all a load of right wing B.S. and conspiracy crap. ( She is the pawn of all pawns ) ) .

http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~netking/finart3.htm

I can't confirm ( sorry )

Gotta go, will get Miramar info on friday
Go Gold

No one can be SURE. But c'mon, use the little grey cells between front and back. How could there possibly be a DEFLATION when all the central banks of the world have been running their paper presses at full speed?
Get Real. Get Gold. ( Before its too late! ) Have a nice day ( week, month, year, life ) .

Maybe he is right maybe he is wrong. I'm just passing info about SILVER onto the Group.

http://www.pei-intl.com/Research/SILVER.HTM

I hate to bring it up again, but I don't believe it is in anyone's interest to allow blatant inconsistencies and fallacious argumentation to go unanswered.The inference that Jesus Christ may be accepted as a great moral teacher or prophet, along with Budda, Mohammed, etc. etc. is preposterous. He was either exactly who He said He was, or He was the greatest fraud in the entire history of mankind. There is no middle ground as to who He was. He made very exclusive claims as to His identity. If He was not God, His life and ministry were nothing but an elaborate, blasphemous deception. You can take Him or leave Him, but dont try to incorporate Him.

CHEROKEE: I dont have that URL handy regarding Anthrax-Vagixx,
but I will try to find the source.
You claimed you received this URL from Oldhousewife etc.
so why dont you share it with us?

I have thousands of URLs,
all I remember is that paticular source was highly reliable from within the FBI.

But why are you kids are so excited about it?
It has already been done BY AMATEURS
in the Tokyo subway?

BTW kids, keep reporting ACCURATELY,
I said 7 women NOT 5.
======================


Date: Thu Jan 29 1998 19:13
cherokee__A
( @------there-are-more-seeds-than-can-ever-be-eaten----chomp-chomp-chomp--- )
ID#344308:

and the last for today.......

http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/content.html

ziva------do you have the url for the report on the
iraqi women caught with the anthrax, and the associated
link?

post it.........if you have it.......

===================================


Date: Thu Jan 29 1998 19:04
cherokee__A

( @----these-have-been-posted-here-before---------shlomo-from-last-year------oldhousewife---- )
ID#344308:

strad-man-----

i have ---some-where the report ziva alluded to here
recently about the iraqui women ( 5 ) caught in the mid-west
with anthrax spores hidden in body cavities.....the report
is credible......the links in the article are highly informative....

i'll post some more url's..........somewhere amongst them, are these
reports......they will cause you to re-think your position relative
to the masses!

http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/unrep.htm

more coming.........

gold options are on sale today.......buy on the dips......

cherokee...........

=============================

BOY OH BOY........ I left you for couple of hours to have Lux & Bagel and when I returned
to my computer, I see all you guys are talking about War and Anthrax !!!
AND TO THINK THAT JUST LAST MONTH I WAS THE ONLY PERSON TALKING
ABOUT IT !!!

The reason for West Coast sites for potential release of anything N/B/C is the wind blows across the US from West to East. Perhaps its time to purchase stock of companies who specialize in "survival". Anybody know of any pure-plays ? Might as well make some money from this morbid talk, which in turn can be used to buy more Gold.

Those bags under Clinton's eyes are real PUFFY these days.

Mooney: Once a major deflationary cycle begins -- expanding the money supply does not work -- for example -- if we gave S Korea all the money it wanted right now -- would that really do the trick? No! Also during the great depression, the money supply was expanded ( probably too late to help ) and the banks still refused to loan. I guess they were gun shy. And -- look at Japan with negative real interest rates well before 1997.

I still do not know whether the money supply was expanded or contracted in the immediate pre-1929 period in the US -- have read several books and got several different answers. But -- I do know that Herbert Hoover was a businessman, and more competent than generally assumed. Prebably more competent than the FED was at that time.

However -- you are right that we are not at that point of severe deflation.

I still think there are two deflationary triggers that must be considered in the US: The deflationary effects of a SEAsian good Tsunami, or a sudden stock market collapse. After seeing the post about low liquidity in SEAsia, I think we can be less worried about the SEAsian goods Tsunami. A stock market collapse is still possible.

Glenn:

Maybe he is right, maybe he is wrong, maybe, just maybe, he is short.

BOY OH BOY........ I left you for couple of hours to have Lux & Bagel
and when I returned to my computer,
I see all you guys are talking about War and Anthrax !!!

AND TO THINK THAT JUST LAST MONTH
I WAS THE ONLY PERSON TALKING ABOUT IT !!!

**********************

CHEROKEE: I dont have that URL handy regarding Anthrax-Vagixx,
but I will try to find the source.
You claimed you received this URL from Oldhousewife etc.
so why dont you share it with us?

I have thousands of URLs,
all I remember is that paticular source was highly reliable from within the
FBI.

But why are you kids are so excited about it?
It has already been done BY AMATEURS
in the Tokyo subway?

BTW kids, keep reporting ACCURATELY,
I said 7 women NOT 5.
======================


Date: Thu Jan 29 1998 19:13
cherokee__A
( @------there-are-more-seeds-than-can-ever-be-eaten----chomp-chomp-chomp---
)
ID#344308:

and the last for today.......

http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/content.html

ziva------do you have the url for the report on the
iraqi women caught with the anthrax, and the associated
link?

post it.........if you have it.......

===================================


Date: Thu Jan 29 1998 19:04
cherokee__A

(
@----these-have-been-posted-here-before---------shlomo-from-last-year------oldhousewife----
)
ID#344308:

strad-man-----

i have ---some-where the report ziva alluded to here
recently about the iraqui women ( 5 ) caught in the mid-west
with anthrax spores hidden in body cavities.....the report
is credible......the links in the article are highly informative....

i'll post some more url's..........somewhere amongst them, are these
reports......they will cause you to re-think your position relative
to the masses!

http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/unrep.htm

more coming.........

gold options are on sale today.......buy on the dips......

cherokee...........

=============================

Thursday January 29, 8:11 pm Eastern Time

Japan's measures to boost economy fall short-Rubin

``Our policy with respect to the dollar has not changed through this administration. A strong dollar is in our interests and has contributed to our economic success over the past five years,'' Rubin said in response to reporters questions following a speech delivered to a community lending conference.

``The key is that Japan gets back on a path of solid growth and it needs to take the measures to do that. Obviously, to date
that hasn't happened,'' Rubin said, referring to measures to boost demand-led growth in Japan.
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980129/japan_s_me_1.html

This is why Gold has droped recently. Even though the CRB is up.

HighRise

I am a long-time lurker. I have been brought out of lurking to comment on something I know a great deal about; weapons and war. I am a retired U.S. Army Infantry Colonel

A few comments and facts about Weapons of Mass Destruction ( WMD )

Oldman 18:26 We probably will not use a conventional explosive bomb to destroy chemical and biological weapons. That would tend to spread them around. We will use special deep penetration incendiary bombs that will break into the bunkers and then burn the agents in place. Not 100% effective, but good enough. Oldman, you imply that once released, these agents would endanger virtually everyone. This is a common misconception but simply not true. Bugs and gas are quickly diluted, destroyed, and dispersed in the atmosphere to the point that they become ineffective. Down-wind danger from even huge releases is measured in 1-10 miles at most.

JTF 18:40 You mention the hamburger and strawberry problems as examples of how bad bug and gas could be in U.S. Actually, the small number of casualties from these events point to the real weaknesses of bugs and gas as weapons. As soon as the first casualties occur, there are cheap, easy and effective methods to limit the damage. Even the old idea of a small amount of botulism toxin in the water is not as horrible as it sounds. Water systems do not distribute water uniformly in area or time. The first casualties would provide ample warning to prevent mass casualties.

Anthrax smuggled in a vial at a time. That is simply not a big enough supply to do much damage. They still would have to figure a way to disperse it widely and in proper concentration. Not easily done.

JTF 19:13 Suitcase nuclear weapons. Actually, Atomic Demolition Munitions ( ADM ) . Most old Soviet equipment is crap. Could work, probably not. This stuff is old and was faulty from the start. Still, this provides the greatest danger. Forget satellite detection. Satellites have to be looking where the thing is that you want to see. They are virtually useless at scanning broadly for things that do not have a big signature. They can see the heat bloom from the launch of an ICBM or the detonation of a nuclear weapon but the chance of them spotting something as small as ADM radiation signature is small indeed. They could not even find SCUDs in Iraq.

OK, Too long. Questions?
I am a long-time lurker. I have been brought out of lurking to comment on something I know a great deal about; weapons and war. I am a retired U.S. Army Infantry Colonel

A few comments and facts about Weapons of Mass Destruction ( WMD )

Oldman 18:26 We probably will not use a conventional explosive bomb to destroy chemical and biological weapons. That would tend to spread them around. We will use special deep penetration incendiary bombs that will break into the bunkers and then burn the agents in place. Not 100% effective, but good enough. Oldman, you imply that once released, these agents would endanger virtually everyone. This is a common misconception but simply not true. Bugs and gas are quickly diluted, destroyed, and dispersed in the atmosphere to the point that they become ineffective. Down-wind danger from even huge releases is measured in 1-10 miles at most.

JTF 18:40 You mention the hamburger and strawberry problems as examples of how bad bug and gas could be in U.S. Actually, the small number of casualties from these events point to the real weaknesses of bugs and gas as weapons. As soon as the first casualties occur, there are cheap, easy and effective methods to limit the damage. Even the old idea of a small amount of botulism toxin in the water is not as horrible as it sounds. Water systems do not distribute water uniformly in area or time. The first casualties would provide ample warning to prevent mass casualties.

Anthrax smuggled in a vial at a time. That is simply not a big enough supply to do much damage. They still would have to figure a way to disperse it widely and in proper concentration. Not easily done.

JTF 19:13 Suitcase nuclear weapons. Actually, Atomic Demolition Munitions ( ADM ) . Most old Soviet equipment is crap. Could work, probably not. This stuff is old and was faulty from the start. Still, this provides the greatest danger. Forget satellite detection. Satellites have to be looking where the thing is that you want to see. They are virtually useless at scanning broadly for things that do not have a big signature. They can see the heat bloom from the launch of an ICBM or the detonation of a nuclear weapon but the chance of them spotting something as small as ADM radiation signature is small indeed. They could not even find SCUDs in Iraq.

OK, Too long. Questions?

Japan
Nikkei 225
^N225
9:03PM
16755.94
-258.65
-1.52%

When Rubin speaks!

HighRise

Gold 302.85 ..Silver 6.09 21:15hrs

TO: ALL & Bart @ Kitco

It's very obvious to us that there is an immense amount of ( UGLY GREEDY YANKS ) who continually disregard Bart's fine hospitality and his desires to keep this discussion group Commercial Free. Today we read posts of HOW GREAT I AMBUY WHAT I AM SELLINGOR MAKE ME FAMIOUS SO I CAN MAKE MILLIONS OFF THIS AUDIANCEOR COME HIT ON MY WEB SITE SO I CAN CHARGE MORE FOR MY ADVERTISING ( books, investment newsletters, web sites etc. ) .

When you hit on these web sites, some of the articles found, probably have been reproduced without permission by the authors or the original publications.

We feel that these people have less invested in their operations than Kitco has invested
in fume scrubbers and other environmental BS.

We're sure that Kitco ( Bart ) does not recover one third of the expense of this site through any business that may be generated through this site.

Some of these sites use names that might make you think that they are part of the United States Government. They even go by the name ( registered by the way ) of United States Bullion coins.

If this rubs any of you the wrong way.. Well just TS!!!

Bart:

We really appreciate your site this is your HOUSE and you should make the rules and enforce them and not let a few LOW LIFE'S take a FREE RIDE for their OWN BENEFIT at your cost!

If it were us we would just fade to black and see if these people would be able to get away with it somewhere else.

It would be such a shame for all of the innocent lurkers and posters to miss out on such a remarkable site.

Take careBarb Hughes & Mike Golonka

As I have been in most of today and monitoring the MEDIA on Monicagate so far today I have watched the video clip aired showing BJ and Monica embtacing at 2 seperate rallies a total of 27 times by news and tabloid programs,...obviously couldn't have watch them all... this is up from yesterday by about 50%.....
Is this an attempt to "counter" BJ's state of union speech and subsequent rallies and moves... hmmmm.....there is NO doubt in my mind now, that "they" are out to get him... and probably will... BUT it aint
over till it's over.... He may want to go out a winner, look out Iraq, .....
but he may also be playing with FIRE.....stay tuned....

Gold EBN 301,80, Silver 6.06 where are we going?

Gloomy Gus--It must take some kind of talent to pick 3 of the biggest losers. How did you miss Delgratia?

Well, it looks like the slickmeister's going to get away with another
one. He can't be prosecuted for perjury because the Paula Jones
judge has ruled that slick's doing Lewinski isn't material to that
case and Starr won't give Lewinski immunity so any possibility of
getting him for suborning perjury or obstructing justice is history.

Makes you wonder if Starr really wants to get slick. He's got to be
the least aggresive prosecutor in history.

Old Soldier: Your comments make alot of sense. I am a physicist, not a military man. But -- I do know that Russian technology is far behind us in most things, except missle boosters and some other items. Those ADM's as you call them, could very well be defective. I wonder, could an enterprising terrorist repackage them? By the way, I think you and I are agreeing that our satellite detectors have a very narrow field of view, so other sources of intelligence have to be used to aim them in the right direction.

And -- if, as you say the dose of a toxin in the food supply is not evenly distributed -- we have a very efficient communication system with a suberb team of experts that can quarantine affected areas -- the CDC. Incidentally they just quarantined an area where a Tuberculosis outbreak was effectively stopped -- the organism grows 1000x faster than the common Mycobacterium TB. In Tennessee somewhere.

Expanding on your comments about food poisoning -- the most dangerous kind would be a delayed acting one, because then with our centralized distribution system, millions of people could be affected before the CDC or ? got involved.

I have rather serious question for you. Do you trust the people in our government to put the safety of the American people over their desire to punish a foreign country like Iraq? If a major terrorist attack by a foreign power was encouraged by some less uprightous members of our government -- that could be used as an excuse to impose martial law, and take over the country. I would not have thought that possible years ago, but now I am not so sure. By the way, I sense a movement within our government to move toward more honesty, justice and truth in leadership - but is it moving quickly enough? -- I don't know.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Happy Face To Ya Barb-now back in my whole- learnin'.

Old Soldier: Sure hope you're right. Your post gives great relief. But there are larger issues. When Iraq is finally completely dismembered as a nation, which it surely will be soon, where will we find a replacement enemy? Anyone who has read 1984 and lived through the last third of the 20th century knows that the modern leviathian state REQUIRES enemies. Iraq, with Saddam at the helm is ideal. Its a small country, about the size of Georgia, with a population about half California's. Its terrain is such that our strategic "smart weapons" can destroy them, without our girls ever having to engage a determined enemy on the ground. Its population is of a religious and ethnic group that has been the brunt of brutal propaganda out of Hollywood and the TV networks for half a century, till now almost all Americans have a visceral hatred of them and dont give a damn if Clinton's embargo kills half a million of their children ( which it has ) . And, lastly, Saddam Hussein is "dumb as a fence post." Yup, for an enemy for the modern liberal super-state, Iraq is probably irreplaceable.
BTW: If our Secretaries of State, Defense, Treasury, and the head of the NSC were ALL ARABS, do you think our Middle East policy would be different?

http://www.miramarmining.com

Do you think that the necessary response of the U.S. ( or Israel ) to the first use an Iraqi chemical or biological weapon, would be a nuclear response? If so, do we ( covertly ) maintain low-fallout ( neutron? ) tactical-scale weapons for this sort of thing? ... P.S. Wouldn't the underground COMEX warehouses be a great place to hide a nuke? Think of all that lovely shielding.......

I'm suspicious of a site analysis that repeats the same lines over and over like a mantra, once the point has already been made. I'd have to agree that while there may be some truth or potential truth to the Silver manipulation theory, the "Princeton" site author may very well have some short positions! Look back at his earlier posts also. Repeats the same mantra over and over and over like a metronome.

When we look at the lawsuit, the Pricnceton site, and al similar such points of view, I have yet to see them answer one basic question. Namely, even if some siphoning has ocurred lately, how does this fundamentally change the long term supply demand fundamentals re production/consumption trends that have been consistent for at least 8 years now? A time when we've seen roughly 200 million ounces consumed over what has been produced each and every year? This is going to suddenly reverse course in a world of exploding demand? I think not!

The Asian crises may very well bring about a slowdon in Silver consumption but I'd be reluctant to be the one to predict that the past decade trend is going to suddenly reverse, and that the current holders of Silver will be "forced" to dump 200 to 500 million ounces on the market.

I don't THINK so........

I searched and found this site which takes you to "radio Iraq".

http://www.albany.net/~alcue/index.html

For what it is worth... another point of view.

==================

Date: Thu Jan 29 1998 18:58
Oldman ( Saddam, et.al. ) ID#199183:
Spudmaster: I do not know how many women and children Saddam has
murdered, thuogh he surely has murdered some. Is the number greater than
the number murdered by the Israelis in their hundreds of attacks on
villages full of innocents in Lebanon? Is it even greater than the four score
or so that Klinton murdered at Waco?



=====================
Dear OLDMAN,
We,,, Saddam,,, the Israelies,,, ........
we are all the same.
We acted and acting THE SAME.
It is just a question of numbers.

This remind me what George Bernard Shaw said to a high society lady:
We already know what you are, now we just argue about the price.

( To those fo you who do not remember the story:
A high society lady was asked is she will have sex with him for a million sterlings,
and she agreed. When George reduced his offer immediately to 10 sterlings, she replied:
What do you think I am . )
I read this story over 50 years ago
please forgive me if details are not accurate.


So let us *N*O*T* talk about Saddam the bad guy,
let us talk about who is manipulating Saddam and us to behave the way we do.

To refresh your memory,
allow me to bring you one of Kitcos most memorable posts:

==================

Date: Thu Jan 29 1998 18:58
Oldman ( Saddam, et.al. ) ID#199183:
Spudmaster: I do not know how many women and children Saddam has
murdered, thuogh he surely has murdered some. Is the number greater than
the number murdered by the Israelis in their hundreds of attacks on
villages full of innocents in Lebanon? Is it even greater than the four score
or so that Klinton murdered at Waco?

======================================


Date: Sun Jan 25 1998 03:51
Organ ( Bilderberg and Trilateral Commission -- Fascinating article )
ID#162309:
3 ) World Government, interview with an
insider....?

Section 1 mirrors a Greek site:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/8604/strigas.txt

Athanasios Strigas, interviewed here, studied Political and Economic
Science
at the University of Heidelberg. He then took Foreign Relations and
International Strategy in the University of Georgetown in Washington D.C.

and Propaganda in Patris Lumumba of Moscow.

He started his career as an attach and nowadays is a specialised consultant
to the supreme military
commander of NATO and has close connections with the Trilateral
Commission. Most of his time is
spent in Brussels and in the last year and a half he has published 4
successful books.

Strigas has revelaed some shocking facts in Greece about domestic politics
using secret
documents etc. as proof. He also predicted a military crisis between Greece
and Turkey 18
months before it happened and named exactly the small island which was
the focus of the
crisis. Unfortunately his books are only available in Greek but in them he
reveals a great deal
about the US National Security Agency and the Trilateral Commission and
the Bilderberg
Club, sometimes far more than anything you can find on the world- wide
web.

This interview is translated, imperfectly, from the original Greek.



* We all know that countries are being guided by their political and
military leaders. Big
countries and small do exist and also the small countries are dependant on
the big ones.
Despite this in your books you mention two international decision making
centres which, in
your opinion, are above countries and ideologies. Could you be more
specific about that?

* It may sound exaggerated but people these days are being guided by
political and military
leadership according to the orders of two global centres: The Trilateral
Commission and The
Bilderberg Club. This marks a new era and it is not something that has
happened in the past.

In the past, the world was ruled by ideologies. We know ideologies were
used to control the people.
But conflicting ideologies were also creating wars. Therefore, for a while,
countries formed alliances.

More recently there has been a change in the global scenery. Everything
has been globalised. The
world has become a global village. Therefore it needs global decision
making centres. From this point
of view the Planetarchy, if we can call it that, will be the politics of the
21st century. This marginalises
national governments which are now dependent on those international
centres.

Today we see that profit now determines the destinies of countries. The
world is already being ruled
by representatives of those two centres. The task of today's governments is
to look after 93% of the
international wealth. That is the wealth that those two centres own.



* What exactly are the Bilderberg Club and the Trilateral Commission?

* The Bilderberg Club is an international decision making centre named
after a hotel near the Dutch
town of Oosterbeek where its first convention took place in 1954. Its
headquarters is in The Hague
in Holland. In its conventions two types of people take part we can call
the 'protagonists' and the
'supernumerary'.

The supernumerary are something like guest speakers, they are only
allowed to speak a few minutes
and always on the first day of the convention. The Guidance Committee of
the Club protagonists is
made up of Americans and Europeans from the developed countries, never
has a person from the
Third World been on it.

The Club is made up of people with conservative 'aberrations' such as
Giovanni Anieli, Luns,
Rothschild etc. The Bilderberg Club's president is today James Callahan,
British ex- prime minister
and his assistant is the ex- General Secretary of NATO, Lord Carrington.
Maybe you remember that
in 1993 the Club met in Greece, in the Asteras hotel in Bouliagmeni.

The Bilderberg Club today controls 33% of the world's wealth. Some
members of the Bilderberg
Club, without having departed from it officially, established in June 1973 a
new, more powerful
group, the Trilateral Commission led by David Rockefeller, president of the
Chase Manhattan Bank.
Members of the Trilateral Commission operate in parallel with but
somewhat above the Bilderberg
Club as a centre of research and analysis. The founding members of the
Trilateral Commission are
Sirus Vance and Warren Christopher. David Rockefeller is president and
Zbigniew Brzezinski is
chief executive. The Trilateral Commission manages 60% of international
wealth.



* How do those centres get so much power?

* I think it is obvious that they take the power from the international
wealth they control and from the
various political appointments, presidents and prime ministers ( which are
mostly technocrats ) which
they control and guide.



* But how is possible to select candidates? Do top politicians accept being
only token leaders
of their countries?

* This is a reasonable question but remember, human ambition has no
limits. Skilful people exist that
do not care for means nor consequences in order to rise to the top of their
country's leadership. The
selection for suitable protagonists to serve the two centres is made after
checked information which
analysts of the NSA [U.S. National Security Agency] have collected, with
the help of organisations
such as CIA, DIA and DEA.

The NSA personal reports are transferred in the end to the Steering
Committee of the Bilderberg
Club. The Committee meets secretly and the conclusion is sealed in a
special envelope which is then
given to the Bilderberg Club and Trilateral Commission presidents. The
presidencies approve the
decision almost 99% of the time.

Qualifications for candidates are very fluid, [joke?] I mean elastic
consciousness or, if you want,
plasticity, to comply with the international decision making philosophy.
Another element of control is
that they must not disturb the global balance. This is essential because this
balance has nothing to do
with the balance of the world but simply balance of the global profit and
loss account. The members
must globally ensure the income of the two international centres funds.



* But didn't that happen also in the past?

* In the past if someone was a prime minister or a president he would
have come into conflict with
the great powers, he would have been characterised as 'troublemaker' and
underminer of liberty and
then would have been 'vanished' politically or biologically.

Today the politicians are servants whose masters do not allow them to
make any independent moves.
You have seen in the recent German elections ( which happened at the
same time as our [Greek]
council elections ) that the French were the ones that were celebrating the
victory of Kohl because the
Mark is supporting the French Franc. The leaders no longer have any
freedom. You likewise are
probably obliged to your friends to take them into consideration in your
own moves and plans.



* Could you give us an example?

* Let's imagine that this, or the next, Greek government had the will to
solve the Albanian and
Turkish problem and the dispute between Greece and the former
Yugoslavia for Macedonia. What
would they do? Just 300 men are enough to invade the Aktio base in
Preveza, Western Greece,
which belongs to the NSA and then every problem would be solved. If this
base were occupied all
communications in the Balkans and Turkey would be paralysed. But such a
move would need much
courage.



* What are the methods, groups and structures of the global decision
making centres?

* The methods that are being used are simple; I promote you as a president,
prime minister, military
leader; you satisfy your vanity and have ethical and economical profits. In
return you have to blindly
obey us. If not we destroy you by corruption, forced resignation or
assassination. At least this is what
happened up until now.



* What tendencies do you see in those centres today then?

* These days you can see a tendency for renewal. And therefore it was
decided in the last Bilderberg
meeting to give the people 2% percent more of their international wealth,
something that the old ones
did not accept. There are conflicts between conservatives and more liberal
types. But I believe the
last will in the end dominate.



* Recently, humanity watched anxiously the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Which dynamics led
to this collapse and what did it really mean?

* The collapse of the Soviet Union was begun in 1973 by the Trilateral
Commission and part of the
Bilderberg Club. The members who left Bilderberg and formed the
Trilateral Commission used shock
tactics and have brought the control of the remains of the Soviet Union to
the Bilderberg. This was
made possible because in the Summer of 1973, 30 July specifically, The
Trilateral Commission
controlled 60% of global wealth with their World Bank. So it became the
dominator of the game.
The purpose of the Soviet Union's collapse is to demonstrate internationally
the failure of the
Communist ideology and present it as a system that is inhuman.

Besides this, because the population of the earth is growing, the extra 2%
that will be given to the
people will be granted to the Soviet Union out of the mining of their
geological mineral wealth. The
soviet people must be educated as consuming citizens as in the west. In
order to control those people
many new countries will be created that will not have constant peace.



* What is the role of the International Monetary Fund?

* The International Monetary Fund is a branch of the World Bank. Today,
most countries are
obliged to borrow money because they cannot get it from private capital or
from other countries. This
necessity occurs either because of a failure to manage public resources or
because the 5 year plan
failed or because there is internal turmoil etc..

There exist of course also politicians that redeem the sympathy of the
people by offering them
short- term material comforts and asking from them the minimum of their
possible efforts. They do this
of course with money they take from the national budget that should be
normally given to
development projects.

Anyway, the point is that sometimes countries reach a dead- end. When
this happens the IMF
exploits the circumstances: it grants a pre- approval of the loan to those
countries but with its own
conditions. This means that you will get the loans from the banks ( that are
all controlled by the World
Bank ) if you take specified measures which are almost every time anti-
social. This results in turmoil in
the society. The government panic. In order to calm down the turmoil even
more money must be
borrowed.

In this way the government finally gets totally controlled by the IMF.

Let's take for example the Greek education system. 60% of the Education
Ministry outlays are
coming from loans of the IMF. So it is not at all odd that from the 150.000
kids only 40.000 go to
the public universities.

All the above explain also why public works in our country always begin
but never end.



* What are the global decision making centres most afraid of?

* One is the soft spot of the global leaders ( even if this sounds impossible
) and this lies in their
constant fear whether someday the people wake up and demand the wealth
that is rightly theirs. The
same happened in the ex- Soviet Union. The NSA had information that
some people were leading
millions of soviets to a revolution in order to get back more than 70 years
stolen wealth. They were
informed about this movement in time and prevented it by dismembering
the country.



* You mentioned before an enormous in power organisation, the NSA.

* Yes, that's right. The NSA ( National Security Agency ) was founded on
4th November 1952 by
president Truman and its headquarters is at Fort Mead USA. It has more
than 2,000,000 agents and
scientists all over the world.

There is no committee in Congress, not even any laws that control their
activities. In reality there is
not even an act to affirm its establishment. There exist only documents to
protect it.

The security standard is very high and its electronic equipment is unique.
It has the most perfect
computer centre in the world. Its computers are gathering and analysing
daily all the information from
the hundreds of monitoring stations that are on the whole planet and in
this way they oversee the
telecommunications of both the friendly and enemy countries. The Greek
part of the NSA network is
the American base of Aktio.

It is equipped with scores of satellites which, for example, monitor the
movements of the Serbs or of
Saddam and in seconds they inform the headquarters of the organisation.

If you ask someone which is the biggest secret service in the world, they
might mention the CIA, DIA
or KGB. The NSA has deliberately cultivated the impression that the secret
services of USA that do
everything are the CIA and the DIA. Many books and articles have been
written about these secret
services. But of the NSA no- one has ever written anything. In reality the
better known services are
executive organs of the NSA which, from its side, is the executive organ of
the two global decision
making centres that we mentioned before; the Bilderberg Club and the
Trilateral Commission.

Remember, the NSA manufactures politicians ( presidents and prime
ministers ) always according to
the orders of the two global centres. It recruits geniuses from all over the
world, it is said that it is the
inventor of the infections of the modern world and of many more things
that it is impossible for the
simple human mind to hold.



* How can anyone manufacture politicians?

* You mean well built?!! There is a committee of politician manufacturing
whose president is David
Rockefeller with vice president Richard Foren, who is a leading consultant
to General Electric.
Members of this committee are Henry Kissinger, Alexander Hague, Toshio
Nakamura, Edmold
Rothschild, Jovianni Anielli, Sirus Vans, Charles Duncan ( ex- president of
Coca- Cola ) and Helmut
Schmidt.

The politicians that are going to be presidents or prime ministers are
approved or turned down by the
above council which meets once a month in the central building of the
NSA.

When the candidate is approved or disapproved the brainwash from the
Mass Media begins. Money
is given from the Central Banks to help establish a party, campaign etc.. At
the same time the other
secret services take orders so that the NSA plan is carried out.



* What do you see in the near future? Will the status quo remain or will
there be changes in
the world?

* I think that the changes will begin in the area of Saudi Arabia, changes
that will have an effect on
the whole international scene. I predict the fragile balance of the oil cartels
will be altered when 3- 4
oil wells of Aramco's cartel are bombed. This will mean an increase in the
price of petroleum
products. The cartels for one or two years will have low profits.

If this happens Greece, with its oil, can play a leading role. Here we will
have a repeat of the Onasis
phenomenon which was recently made public with all its twisted situations.
This time Greece can play
a leading role in Europe because the economic strength of its oil will make
it the 3rd power in the
European Union. I mean that England will loose its oil wells in the Black
Sea, which belong to BP
and Shell, at the same time as the coup d'etat in Saudi Arabia. It is very
possible that the geographic
borders of Greece with Turkey, former Yugoslavia and Albania will change
and also the borders of
Germany and Poland ( the Oderneisser line ) .

England will loose Scotland because the Scottish autonomists will blow its
oil wells. After the IRA
has made an agreement with England a part of it will go to support the
Scottish autonomists.

Being under high pressure, and after having passed the economic
convulsion which will lead to the
global shock we mentioned before, the world's economy will make an
opening to China. China, of
course, will ask for something in return. An exchange could be India.

What does this mean? It means that China will be allowed to invade India
under false pretences. The
Bilderberg Club will supply India, and the Trilateral Commission will
renew the armour of China.

In this war, in order to reduce the world's population, the neutron bomb
will be used. One time
general of NATO's army, Alexander Hague, was fighting off proposals for
the neutron bomb, so on
29th June 1979 they tried to assassinate him.

If this happens Pakistan and Turkey will be dragged in, and Turkey will
split up in two halves,
Eastern and Western part. If this happens Tansu Ciller will put Turkey in
the European Union.

Taking this opportunity I should tell you that within the vast changes that
will happen in the near future
is a step- up of the Ecumenical Patriarchy of Konstantinopolis. I mean that
it will play a more
important role than today. Already Ciller has a draft law ready for the
Turkish parliament if conditions
allow it. In this law the Patriarchy will become a separate state, something
like the Vatican.



* Except for exploiting the global wealth where else do the two global
decision centres target?
Isn't it a little bit unreasonable to say that a small group of humans does
affect and control
almost all the countries on earth? How do they manage not to loose control
of them?

"Some of these sites use names that might make you think that they are part of the United States Government."

Like the "Federal Reserve", eh, Barb?

"If this rubs any of you the wrong way.. Well just TS!!!"

Classy girl. Apply soap to mouth & scrub hard.

"We really appreciate your site this is your HOUSE and you should make the rules and enforce them and not let a few LOW LIFE'S take a FREE RIDE for their OWN BENEFIT at your cost!"

Barb, you wouldn't be one of those low-life coin dealers would you, by any chance? I notice you "ride the pony" over on Bart's Advertising Board.

regards,
Spud

Can we drop the Religious Discussions of which no one here appears to
know anything about albeit convinced re their own convictions. Getting
to be worse than Ted's ( Kaper Kitty Kop ) swearin'. Ted-get on it. Get focused. Where are ya????

I'm reading about Henry Knox, Geo Washington's Secretary of War. A question arises in my mind that I cant answer: Why is it that, back when all our wars were here in North America, and there was real danger to our survival, it was called the WAR Department, but now, when we have troops in a hundred foreign countries, none of which pose the slightest danger to us, its called the DEFENSE Department? Puzzling.

DEJ: Are you sure about that? Could Starr just be bargaining with Lawyer Ginsburgh? Or is he just trying to scare Monica?

I guess Paula Jones will have to make do with the list of the other 100 women who apparently have had relations with the President. I think the more crucial question is whether this new event prevents Starr from getting to BC's secret service officers.

I must admit -- Starr's real underlying agenda does seem much more complex than just getting to the truth. Are we only to get to the surface of scandals or illegal activities, just to show that he is doing something? What about the CIA director's comment that there is a big security leak in the Executive Branch?

MADly cleaning the house as the wife is coming back tomorrow after bein gone a month....Back to Canadians-Flyers game ( 3-2 Habs ) ...NO religious BS on this channel!!

JTF - re your 21:03 post.
US money supply reduced by 20% during the 1930s. It was the Fed's unwillingness ( as opposed to inability ) to inject liquidity into the economy, even in the face of a large inflow of gold into the US, that caused the collapse of the banking system. This is a mistake they won't make again.

In Asia at the moment we have massive inflation. The money supplies of many Asian countries are being increased at more than 20% per year. When you have huge non-performing loans and/or foreign debt, increasing the money supply probably won't help with economic growth. The only sure thing is that the purchasing power of the local currency will be reduced.

Cheers, sas

Elementary, my dear Watson. Double speak.

To quote George Orwell, "War is Peace." 1984, We have arrived !

.. lets drop astrology discussions also.

Oldman: I prefer calling it War department -- tell it like it is. Defense -- that sounds like the military resources might be turned around, and used on the American people. I didn't used to be this paranoid, but a weak military is still very potent if it is used internally.

I would like to have some honest American leaders -- ones I could trust -- we did have ones like this in the past.

Don't mind Spud's comments Barb, he's Vronsky's soulmate because they both believe that conspirators are behind every tree, and that anyone who doesn't agree, ought to be locked up or censored....they both need massive doses of lithium and Prozac but keep refusing to take their meds....

A lawsuit has been brought by the New York law firm of Lovell and Stewart against Phibro and various
other co-defendants, claiming that they attempted to manipulate the silver market by withdrawing silver
from official COMEX stocks and hiding the bullion in unmarked warehouses in London ( perhaps James
Bond's Goldfinger was consulted on this matter ) . A careful reading of the text of the lawsuit reveals that
the plaintiffs have ( or pretend to have ) little or no basic knowledge of commodity price movements,
contending that silver should have moved in lockstep with gold and copper ( ! ) , and since it didn't, there
must be a conspiracy of manipulation. The fact that the gold price was depressed in 1997 by tons of gold
loans and short selling, or that copper's correlation with any of the precious metals is tenuous at best,
was not mentioned. Also, the obvious behavior of palladium and platinum setting multi-year highs just
before silver did, a much more important historical correlation typical of the white metals, was nowhere
to be found. Nymex president Patrick Thompson has categorically denied that there has been any kind
of manipulation in regard to their silver stocks. In my opinion, this suit has about as much merit as a
disappointed owner of Sybase stock claiming that there must be manipulation since other high-tech
shares like Microsoft have performed much better.

sas: Appreciate your comments. I have read many books and still don't understand what happened just before the great depression. But -- the FED being incompetent ( or ineffective - or both ) at that time is very clear.

January 29, 1998
Chretien says Canada economic fundamentals strong

OTTAWA, Jan 29 ( Reuters ) - Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien said on Thursday the value of the Canadian dollar was up to the markets, but that the country's economic fundamentals were very strong.

"Canada's economic fundamentals are the best of the Group of Seven ( industrialized nations ) and among the best in the OECD ( the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development ) ," he told reporters after a cabinet meeting.

"We have virtually no more ( budget ) deficit, we don't have any inflation, unemployment is falling, we have begun paying our debt."

Canada's dollar weakened to a new record low against the U.S. currency on Thursday.

"It's the markets that decide on the Canadian dollar... the governor of the Bank of Canada is doing his job," Chretien said.

"All the countries are under pressure because of the fluctuations of the currencies around the world, and everybody is going into the American dollar at this moment," Chretien said.
--------------------------------------------------------------
January 29, 1998
Dollar lower than it should be: Chretien

OTTAWA ( CP )  Prime Minister Jean Chretien says the dollar is lower than it should be given the strength of the Canadian economy, but he's not showing any alarm at the currency's decline.

He made no suggestion that the Bank of Canada should raise interest rates to shore up the currency. The Canadian dollar limped today toward its third record low in as many days, reaching 68.29 cents US by midday.

Ted-No more lefty/righty. Now I'm gettin' out of "hand". Sorry-no more
Kaper Kop!

Welcome back, a few nights ago I was saying to Aurator and Haggis how I missed your debates. We need "an opposing point of view" otherwise life is boring. Nice to know you didn't drop out.

LGB - it is clear that silver is being manipulated, that is, stocks are being removed from the officially reported COMEX inventories to create the impression of a shortage. There is nothing new here - the same players have tried the same tactic several times before, although this is the first time they have attracted law suits. Those who are long silver can profit from the situation, however they should be aware that when the manipulators finally bail out then months of gains will disappear in a day. If you want to know the real story regarding silver supply, talk to Kodak.

I think Martin Armstrong's major problem with the manipulation is that the traders involved are not capable of making money based on their trading skills, but must distort the perceived reality in order to sucker big money into a rally so that they can exit with a profit.

Cheers, sas

major reasons the price of gold will rise.-short term


Eid Al Fitr started on January 29th, 1998 ( 1 Shawwal 1418 ) , for most countries in the Arab world. The second major festival is Eid-Al-Adha, or the festival of sacrifice, which is celebrated on the tenth day of the third lunar month after Ramadan and marks the conclusion of the
annual pilgrimage ( Hajj ) to Makkah ( April 8th, 1998 ) . However, gold trading may not take place during the holiday periods as business activity ceases then. The Eid Al-Fitr holiday is a ten day holiday; so any major gold purchases from the countries celebrating the Eid season are likely to occur between February 8th and April 7th. The US could launch air and missile attacks on Iraq, said news reports on Monday January 26th. They would be a result of the Iraqi standoff against U.N. weapons inspection teams. However, the attacks would not occur for at least two weeks. The news reports claimed that their sources were from the Pentagon. Military action was unlikely in January in any case,
during Ramadan, as this could alienate regional allies.


-long term

Gold loans and deficits caused by short-sales are estimated at 8000 tonnes, according to analyst Frank Veneroso. On November 12th, 1997, he claimed that the world gold market's gap between supply and demand
was 700 tonnes larger than estimated- so that demand for gold to cover short market positions will eventually send the price of gold soaring.

Political uncertainties from the US Presidency can be cited as risk factors for the markets for the immediate future, which is illustrated by the gold price rise ( an $8 jump ) on January 23rd as the dollar
weakened in response to allegations of wrongdoing and rumours of resignations.

We are already witnessing drops in production from high cost mines such as Evander, Freegold and Kloof in South Africa, Royal Oak s operations and Mount Todd ( Pegasus ) in Australia. Mined gold production is looking
into the abyss and the rate of decline will pick up in the next few months. http://www.gold.org/Pages/Home1.htm>http://www.gold.org/Pages/Home1.htm

At $320/oz., 50% of the western world's gold production is unprofitable on a full cost basis.

At $320/oz., 25% of the western world's gold production is unprofitable on a cash cost basis.

At $320/oz., only 5 of 19 of South Africa's major mines could show a profit.
http://www.gold.org/Pages/Home1.htm

Ted-Cud u keep an eye on dat LGB feller. I think he's a Disney Disciple.
Potential to flip out any minute. Plse provide assessment report at ur convenience

JTF 21:40 As a physicist you are on strong ground to understand weapons and war. At the core, weapons and war are all based on physics.

ADMs As you know, nuclear weapons require surpassing precision in machining and chemical/isotopic purity of components. The Soviets specialized in quantity over quality. The old ADMs have deteriorated since manufacture. Additionally, all major nuclear powers have taken extraordinary measures to make it very difficult for unauthorized persons to actually make nuclear weapons detonate. Unauthorized possessors of Soviet ADMs are not likely to test one. Therefore they may be very surprised to discover that it simply will not detonate as planned. Worse yet for them, it might just blow some of its chemical explosive to kill them if they use an improper arming sequence. Repackaging could only be accomplished by an extremely well equipped and developed enemy. Iraq? Probably not.

Yes, very narrow field of view is the problem with satellite detection.

A delayed action type of food toxin would be the most effective. I know of none.

Politics. I do not see martial law in our future. Our soldiers dont think about it, arent trained for it, and would have no stomach for it. Believe it or not, most of our soldiers are true American patriots. They just want to do what is best for the country they love. Imposing the will of an out-of-control government on the American people is not what they signed up for. Let me be very clear, I trust our military far more than I trust our government. The U.S. military has never breached the public trust. Their oath is to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the U.S. against all enemies foreign and domestic. Believe me, we all noticed that word domestic in the oath. It is a grave and solemn trust that is not taken lightly.

Appreciate it.

The name of this disease is zivanecological husseinirus.

The name of this medical problem
is zivanecological husseinirus.

George Bernard Shaw Quotes
==========================

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable man persists in
trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."


Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.


"The worst sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them,
but to be indifferent to them;
that's the essence of inhumanity."


"If history repeats itself,
and the unexpected always happens,
how incapable must Man be of learning from experience?"

"The power of accurate observation
is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."



Democracy is a device that insures
we shall be governed no better than we deserve.


Democracy is a form of government that substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.


I often quote myself; it adds spice to my conversation.


There is no satisfaction in hanging a man who does not object to it.


When two people are under the influence of the most violent,
most insane, most delusive, and most transient of passions,
they are required to swear that they will remain in that excited, abnormal, and exhausting condition continuously
until death do them part.


"England and America are two countries separated by the same language."


"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul."



"A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable,
but more useful than a life spent doing nothing."


"He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches."


"Hegel was right when he said that we learn from history that man can never learn anything from history."


"It is dangerous to be sincere unless you are also stupid."



"Martyrdom is the only way a person can become famous without ability."


"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic
is no more to the point than the fact
than a drunken man is happier than a sober one."


"The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything, and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my notions have only wasted my time."


"You see things and say 'Why?'; but I dream things that never were and I say 'Why not?'" -- George Bernard Shaw
( Didn't Kennedy adopt it? Ziva )

Ted  Canadian Dollar ---Loose woman and the Looney ---How about kicking the hindmost Brian Mulroney for such a mental degenerate name call for our currency .Are Canadians Lunatics or have we sold our land and water to the Americans . Imagine calling the Eagle coin the Beagle the currency dog. Its time to change the name for the sake of all Canadians The Bull Coinrepresentative of all our great politicians ( Impotence Peddlers ) -----Away to buy Gold on Dips.

The only MASTER of SPUDS, that we know is ...J.R. SIMPLOT.

Who R U?

Is not the Advertising Board, AT THE HOST'S REQUEST, the proper place to take advantage of THE HOST'S GENEROUSITY???

P.S. If you wish, you may check with the American Numismatic Association, COINAGE Magazine & anyone at Krause Publications & see if we have had ONE complaint in 30 Years. We might as well puff a little bit too!

P.S.P.S. OUR CHECKS WILL CLEAR!!!

P.S.P.S.P.S. Did the SHOE FIT Nicely OR are you just one of the KETTLES?

GAWS darn this is fun!!!!

P.S.P.S.P.S.P.S. What are your CREDENTIALS SIR??????

LUV...Barb



P.S.

A hearty cyber toast I raise to you for the last paragraph of your 22:19 post...Cheers! Salud!

You should have done your home work.

At the reported grades, it is an exploration play, and certainly not a development or mine production play.

OldSoldier: Thank you -- I needed to know that. I have a few relatives in the Armed forces, and they talk the way you do.

Oldman 21:42 Re: perfect enemy. You are exactly right and you answer your own question. Saddam is such a perfect enemy we should not expect him to go soon into that good night. He may well outlast Fidel. Certainly nothing currently in the works is even intended to rid the world of him. We may beat, bomb, embargo and abuse him but take him out? Neva happen GI!!

Arab Cabinet members. The Arab vs U.S. thing is simply domestic politics, on each side. Noone ( just using the convention there ) have come close to killing as many Arab as the Arabs have. Our Arabs would be just as hard on their Arabs as their Arabs are.

I luv feisty women. Ted-plse take into consideration her appt. as ur
2 i/c.

yep real puffy noticed that few days ago too. heheh

Don't mind LGB, he's just a frustrated rocket scientist & holder of lots of go-nowhere Sunshine Silver. Probably beside himself for not buying Durban Deep @ 1 1/2 like the rest of us.

As for your veiled snide remarks concerning Vronksy ( may I assume it was Vronsky? ) - seeing as you are of the same ilk, I found your remarks remarkable for their tunnel vision. Physician, heal thyself...

If I were you I would run, run ,run like the wind for fear of great camel's breath of the madmass from the desert who has been out again all day in the very hot sun, you have gone and done it now you have
GIVEN OUT TRUE FACTS!!! about South Africa "Only 5 out of 19 South
African mines can be profitable at $320.00 Gold"...
may Allah have mercy on your soul......
BTW very glad to see posters who use FACTS in their posts.....

If I were you I would run, run ,run like the wind for fear of great camel's breath of the madmass from the desert who has been out again all day in the very hot sun, you have gone and done it now you have
GIVEN OUT TRUE FACTS!!! about South Africa "Only 5 out of 19 South
African mines can be profitable at $320.00 Gold"...
may Allah have mercy on your soul......
BTW very glad to see posters who use FACTS in their posts.....

Sir, I bet you never had a chance to handle or
practically test Soviet-made ADM. To my knowledge,
there were also no reports on actual use of ADM in
combat conditions.

And so, why do you think that Soviet ADM will
probably fail, assuming of course, that it will
be armed by the trained operator?

Thank you.

JTF: your 22:01: Yup, its a legitimate concern. The attitude survey at 29 Palms showed a large percentage willing to fire on us. It could be worse, though. Back when I got out of high school, the creme de la creme went to Annapolis and the Point. In college the smartest and toughest were in ROTC. Of those who didnt go to college, some of the very best chose carrers in the military as NCO's. Now, the joint chiefs look and talk like bankers in uniform, the officer corps reminds one of store clerks ( both sexes ) , and the high schoolers who dont think they can make it any other way, both boys and girls "join up". And the Ike returns to port with a hundred pregnant "sailors" aboard. Thank God for Saddam Hussein! We can kick HIS a--: )

Silverbaron 21:44 As we heard in some of Old Golds past comments, the use of nuclear weapons stirs up a lot of emotion. Emotion has tremendous political fallout. History shows that politicians are in no hurry to use nuclear weapons. However, politics works both ways. If Iraq hit the U.S. with a relatively minor WMD attack, the people would probably consider a massive conventional pasting as adequate response. At some level of U.S. casualties, the people would demand a nuclear response. Saddam knows this. He is an expert at brinkmanship. Only April Gaspy, ( sp ) to her great chagrin, was able to fool, trick him into an excessive provocation. He is not likely to make the same mistake twice.

There is nothing covert about our clean low-yield nuclear weapons. We have them and the targets have long been planned.

Nikkei down over 300 ( ~2% ) Spoos under water. PREM nonexistent. Gonnna be a bad day for equities tomorrow.

BART, maybe it is time to remove Oris from this forum.
=====================================
He does not contribute anything
and his expressions are below any acceptable level
EVEN WHEN HE IS NOT DRUNK!!!

THIS IS AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THIS FORUM !!!

===========================
Date: Thu Jan 29 1998 22:20
oris ( Silverbaron ) ID#238422:
The name of this disease is zivanecological husseinirus.
============================
Date: Thu Jan 29 1998 22:21
oris ( Silverbaron ) ID#238422:
The name of this medical problem
is zivanecological husseinirus

LGB I agree on the Silver lawsuit. You should know by know that hungry scavengers ( sorry Lawyers ) sending out law suits has little to do with whether a case has any merit or not. Lawsuits are the bed-rock of the USA. From he who has to him who has not ( and they'll take 25% en route )

Early this morning material was posted, regarding the Bilderberg Club, formed in 1954, and a Trilateral Commission, formed in 1973. With mention about the National Security Agency ( NSA ) , formed in 1952. Such references, to these organizations have appeared several times before, and I have come across the mention of these organization in other research material.

**I have a question for those with the information regarding these organizations.** When promoting the potential destructive designs of these organization, WHY ? has it not occurred to you people that your promotion has never referenced the MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE EQUATION. LABOUR - LABOUR - LABOUR. Labour creates wealth = Value = Gold = Standard of living.

Hell, I suspect that these destructive organizations mentioned, have you gun shy. Should you not mention the impact on labour, or better, expose the actions within the world labour organizations, by these destructive organizations of the economic controls, that are suggested that these organizations are controlling. Yes, you will be called a RED, if you mention Labour, RIGHT? Yet, not to consider LABOUR in your information material is to lose sight of the big picture. Your presentation is not complete ! ( control the worker/citizen, they create value )

March 12 1947 - Truman Doctrine, announces aid to Greece and Turkey - aid to countries threatened by Communist take-over.

June 05 1947 - Marshall Plan proposed at Harvard commencement by Secretary of State George C. Marshall - European Aid. Nov. 17 - Truman asks Congress for $597 million - Congress gives $540 million aid for France, Italy, Austria, and China - next 40 months will authorize $12.5 Billion, as the Marshall Plan. ( to halt the spread of Communism )

June 23 1947 - Taft-Hartly Act passed *over* Trumans *veto* . Restricts organized labours power to strike, prohibits use of union funds for political purposes.

July 26 1947, The Central Intelligence Agency ( CIA ) authorized by Congress in a National Security Act ( NSA ) , in response to an order by President Truman. The President has acted on the advice of Secretary of State Marshall and James V. Forrestal, the new secretary of defence.

Congress forbids the CIA to have police, subpoena, law enforcement powers or internal security functions inside the united states. But in the 1950s and especially after 1967. CIA operatives will undertake domestic surveillance activities. Compile intelligence files on 10,000 USofA citizens, in violation of the National Security Act.

1947 - Hollywood Black List of alleged Communist sympathizers is compiled by **studio executives,** and presented at a conference at New Yorks Waldorf-Astoria Hotel. The list names an estimated 300 writers, directors, actors, and others known or suspected to have Communist party affiliations or of having invoked the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination.

1947 - Hollywood Ten draw short prison sentences for refusing to testify ( Dies Committee )

Sas:

The fatal flaw in the manipulation arguement is the lease rate of silver. One may be upset at the fact that either an individual, group of individuals or a fund or any other entity has purchased a large quantity of silver. However, there is no denying that there is an actual acute shortage of physical metal available on the market. If metal was available the lease rate would be the same 1 or 2 percent it has been for many years. Instead, one month silver can be borrowed for better than 9%. This is radically different than any spec play seen in silver since the Hunt bros.

Why is it so hard to believe that the accumulated deficits over the last decade have drawn down existing stocks to a precarious level, and at that level intelligent speculators have decided to purchase that inventory with the knowledge that the continuing deficit will force the price higher? This is exactly what happened in the palladium market. Years of deficit were met with sales from Russian stockpiles. Someone stepped in and decided to basically purchase the remaining Russian reserves. The market then found itself in a strong deficit with no stockpiles with which to fill the gap. Lo and behold, prices responded.

This is exactly the way these markets are supposed to work and is the reason speculation actually has economic value beyond liquidity and risk spreading. Speculators by their very nature are forced to seek out the best information available so as to have an edge in their speculating. Those that do not, die. This information helps in rational price discovery. The more accurate the price the more efficient the allocation of resources in the economy. Judging by the action of the consumers of palladium, there were very few of them who had the foresight to build inventories so that in the event of a supply shortage they could continue with their businesses.

The concept of just-in-time inventory has a large flaw which is never discussed and that is that inventories have real economic value as a protection against shortages. The cost of financing inventories is the payment of this value. When entire industries adopt the same strategy of not keeping inventories the market has the potential for shock. Some cry that the speculators cause the shock, but they only hasten its arrival and actually lessen its effect because their actions occur prior to truly critical inventory levels. By causing prices to rise in advance of the actual bottom of the barrel, they stimulate the production of new supply in advance of where it might otherwise take place.

Nikkei down over 300 ( ~2% ) Spoos under water. PREM nonexistent. Gonnna be a bad day for equities tomorrow.

Lots of tension tonight. When gold has a bad day always the same!
Waste of time to read insults. We all learned nothing tonight to enhance our investment positions. Dissappointed.

Old Soldier: I would guess that clean Nuclear weapons would still cause the same amount of political fallout as the regular ones -- if their use became public knowledge. A kinetic ( ballistic ) weapon would be politically clean, but I suspect that these are still in the developmental stage. Probably hard to aim a 'rock' big enough to penetrate a bunker. If not -- we will find out very soon!

I am intrigued by your comment that Saddam makes a perfect enemy, and that he may survive Castro. Do you mean that we intentionally do not wish to get rid of him, or that he has the lives of a cat? My impression as a distant observer is the former.

Ziva, I told you not to touch my brother John Disney.

My brother is contributing a lot to this forum.

You mess with my brother, you mess with me!

Welcome back Ted. Now git in the kitchen and clean those dishes. And pull the vacuum around the living room once or twice.

D.A. - perhaps I can use that double apartment complex as my wink-museum. Do you think your friends would take 600,000?? Jeeeez, I'm gonna have to sell alot more tickets to afford the down payment.

Spuds and Barb should get a room. I know they want each other. It is soooooooo obvious.

StudioR - lived in SD for 6 yrs. SDSU is alma mater. My only regret at that school was that we kept getting beat out by Chico as #1 party school in Calif. by Playboy. They were good but we had beaches and thongs....they were landlocked.
away...to sit in front of Thursday night TV ( gell brain )


go OJ...it broke....YES!

Ziva, I told you not to touch my brother John Disney.

My brother is contributing a lot to this forum.

You mess with my brother, you mess with me!

Oris 22:38 I never handled a Soviet ADM nor do I know of anyone ever using an ADM in combat. I have handled many pieces of Soviet equipment including some that were as highly sensitive and classified as ADMs. Soviet weapons are products of a system that emphasized quantity over quality by a wide margin. Make no mistake, I am not saying that strategy is inferior. It was the best strategy for the Soviet Union. It was the strategy that won The Great Patriotic War. In many respects it is the same strategy that the Union followed in the U.S. Civil War and the U.S. followed in WWII.

The problem with that strategy as applies to the present discussion is that weapons made in haste to achieve quantity do not have as long a shelf life as weapons made with more attention to chemical/isotopic purity and precision. The cruder the weapon, the quicker it falls prey to the simple ravages of time; corrosion, chemical deterioration, etc.

I will not go so far as to say it will fail but I would expect less, maybe way less, than the planned yield. In practical terms, one in the basement of the World Trade Center might not bring it down. Make a helluva mess if it went off even sub-optimal? You bet.

Oldman: In the days when a professional military was being proposed, ie, zero conscription, not enough attention was devoted to the clear implications a dedicated profession of arms CAN have. Not the least of which you have already alluded to. Now we are witness to reports out of the Marine Corps that the American civilian is being denigrated as a routine part of their training.

There are certainly ample reasons for doing so and most of them justified but at the same time it would seem to me to be a dangerous practice on the part of those who, on some bright tomorrow, may be the only people able to bear arms in the US.

I have always believed that we, as a nation, made a horrible mistake by expunging the draft. There is a certain quality of safety in knowing that a substantial number those in the of the armed forces are not there by choice. Malcontents ( I bore that label on more than one occasion ) are still able to give a good account of themselves if they see a good reason to do so. It's a matter of leadership, ...... in the meantime they would provide us with a measure of safety we cannot expect from the present configuration and mix of politics and professional arms.

Of course my comments do not include our little Kitco family whatever their means of earning...

Ziva: There is the definite odor of something overheating. I think it's yer hard drive. Yer usin' it like a dredge. Somethin' is definitely gettin' hyper. ...... I pray it's only the HD. That's repairable.

JTF, Your 21:40

"I sense a movement within our government to move toward more honesty, justice and truth in leadership - but is it moving quickly enough? -- I don't know."

Forgive me, but, for someone who has spent as much time on this site as you, and has the intellect of physicist, YOU GOTA BE KIDDING!! I am involved with all levels Local, State and our Federal Government, and I can't see a basis for your statement. Even at the local and state levels, politicians will always be politicians...a breed all to themselves-for themselves, without regard for their constituency. I think the evolutionary cycle mutated liberals, rabbits and snakes, into politicians.
How much honesty, justice and truth in leadership do you observe in...?
The White House ??
Congress ??
The Justice Department ??
The FBI, ATF, IRS ??
The Federal Reserve ??
The IMF, BIS ??
State Governments ??
Local & City Governments ??
The Press ??
Independent Investigating Counsel ??
Corporate Board Rooms ??

I supposed you voted for Nixon and Bubba. In the future, please be sure to be of sound mind and body, before posting such heresy. I think Ross Perot summed it up nicely in his first withdrawal speech, "This country is at a point in time, when Washington does what ever it wants to, and the People have no control of the situation."

Gold for the good guys...GMJ

Sorry Bart, I wouldn't have been able to sleep tonight if I didn't respond.

JTF: Castro could NEVER be a suitable replacement for Saddam as an enemy. He is a tough military problem, since it would be necessary for our girls and boys to engage a battle hardened army in jungle terrain. Those of us who've been that route doubt if the 1998 model US military really wants that job. Cuba is terribly politically incorrect as an enemy, since almost all the people are members of one or another of our most favored victim classes. Nope, we cant afford to lose Saddam. Only possible replacement is Iran, but they have so much hardware, they may luck up and sink a ship or blow up a barracks or something. Under present conditions, all wars must be against an enemy that is incapable of inflicting casualties. More than a couple hundred body bags and Slick would have to call 'em home. Its Saddam by default: )

Old Soldier - I can think of one example where the U.S. military turned on its own, the Veterans March on Washington during the great depression. Any group with too much power can become a threat. The founding fathers gave a lot of thought to a balance of power in government and the civilian control of the military, much to our good fortune.

G'day/g'nite Ted. Just joshin about the drips, mate. Haven't figured out how to put tongue-in-cheek on the web yet. Have sworn off demon and spirituous liquor forever...or 5 p.m....whichever comes first. How's the house cleaning coming? It'll be worth it's weight in gold tomorrow mate--wink,wink,nod,nod. How's the big move to the island going? I feel for your looney problems. Every time I travel overseas the Aussie $$ falls about 10% the day I leave and rises as soon as I get back. I may start trading on that fact. Sorry to hear that your rich and varied use of the King's English has been curtailed. I always enjoy your posts.

Oh yes--gold.
Aussie gold's taking a breather today. Can't go up in a straight line now can they? Moderate losses across the board. My timing yesterday turned out well. Of all my sell orders--one was not filled--I was 6th in line and 5 were filled. I got left hanging--so cancelled the sell order. Guess which one of all my shares is UP strongly today??? Someone up there likes me and I'm not even religious. I think the worm has finally turned on gold shares for the better--but I have been wrong in the past. That's why it pays to stay on your toes and not fall in love with your shares. It can be a very expensive exercise. Without stop losses, I would have ceased being a share trader many moons ago. Back to the market for the last half hour. Friday afternoons can be very dangerous but also very profitable if you take a chance on holding over the weekend.

How can you make a statement like "you mess with my brother you mess with me" ? What does that statement have to do with the price Gold?
Are you being paid off by DIZZY ? I noticed in his post this morning
he made special reference to you as "his great back-up"
Come clean oris... what is in it for you? You can tell us....
This forum is supposed to be for individual investors
discussing GOLD not for cyberGANGS backing up each other pushing
depleted very high cost mines in politically unstable countries and
bashing North American mines.. Come clean.... what is in it for you?
Are you his new "ATTACK DOG" since he's been chewed up here!

Thank you for your answer.

I also handled some Soviet-made weapons and equipment.
I would agree with you that some of it may fail, but it
often depends upon qualifications of personnel in charge.
But some equipment is terrific, you would probably agree.

In regard to ADM, I heard some rumors that a few units
of ADM could be missing from inventory of special forces
( to my best knowledge, these ADM were intended for use
by army special forces only ) , and I am concerned.

I do believe, and you are right about it, that only
highly trained operator can fire up such device. It's
not AK-47.

JTF 23:05 Political fallout from clean vs regular nuclear weapons would probably be the same if used against insufficient perceived provocation. If Saddam did something that killed thousands of non-combatant civilians, I doubt that few beyond the perpetual bed-wetters would get very upset. This is all a matter of proportion. Kinetic weapons are coming on fast. There are good ones for use against tanks, planes, ships missiles and satellites. Getting a deep bunker with a kinetic weapons is still in the future.

I meant Saddam may not only survive Castro but have a longer total reign. Politicians the world over idolize stability and balance. They fear the vacuum left by Saddams passing more than they fear Saddams continued presence.

Thank you for insulting the hundreds of thousands of men and women in YOUR armed forces tonight. I still see the "best and the brightest" every day I report to work. From the lowest ranking airman to the crustiest old general, I see Americans doing the work of the military, not for the pay ( obviously ) and not for the glory ( exponentially obvious ) , but for the love of the ole US of A. I seriously doubt - no, actually I know, there is no military, anywhere on this planet, that can match the US military. Maybe some do look a little more business-like on the outside, but for the guys on the pointy end of the spear, there is still plenty of the "warrior mentality" to kick the S--t out of any takers.

MachF15

DA: I agree wholeheartedly with your synopsis of the situation. The one thing that bothered me about the Martin Armstron piece was that he recommended that the government could force the specs to sell their silver "without warning". Do you agree that this is a possible outcome?

There are literally dozens of folks here who have dealings with the said investigator. He lives here.
It is a long and torturous tale. His problems began 'cause he is a man of principle.
Some group has made a couple of tapes called the "Clinton Chronicles" and The Mena Connection"
They are available from Jeremiah Films.
Gotta search for them on the net under that title or the other two,
'cause that url was among the dozens of Bookmarks I lost when my Netscape 4.03 went ape and stole all my email and bookarks. I had previously had a cradh which took only my drivers. These 'puters are delicate li'l things, I tell you.
There is no personal danger for me, as I was not a participant in any of it. I'd give the investigator's naME, BUT AM SURE IT IS ON THE VIDEOS. dON'T WANT TO IMPOSE ON A MAN WHO WAS DECENT ENOUGH TO TALK TO ME AND MY PARTNER FOR NEARLY FOUR HOURS RE: OL' SLICK, bRO rOGER AND OTHER ASSORTED SCUM IN THIS bEAUTIFUL sMALL sTATE.
I actually laid my fears of gubmnt and criminals such as we're discussin' now to rest about 25 years ago when I first heard of the Freedom Fight. I'll say no more 'bout that here and now. It was a golden opportunity. I can tell you more, but need your email to do so.

After reading your 16:45 post, you have the nerve to suggest that
somebody else should be kicked off this site! WHAT ARROGANCE!

Midas: View latest spot at
http://www.kitco.com/gold.graph.html

Myrmidon: Amen! ( And please don't anybody take that and start another religious tirade! )

Oldman: You clearly overlooked the foreign policy/economic requirements for an enemy that Saddam fulfills. We have clear and pressing need to be in the ME and easily the best way to justify it is by scaring the bejesus out of 'our allies' in that region. .... They, then, need us and .... everything that implies. In terms of the dollar, US debt, oil, US military hardware and etc. Castro cannot frighten anyone. At least no one of vital economic importance to the US. ..... Therefore he fails the most important test.

Can you possibly imagine, man, that I just
like this guy, and I do it for free?

I guess you can not. All right, he promised
me brand new camel. Is it going to work for you?

Quixotic_1: Looks like you know the government better than I. I don't work in it. I gather you are not seeing any changes for the better.

I thought that with the recent awakening of the liberal news media that they might actually go after the truth. Also -- I am encouraged when our current CIA director says there is a major security problem in the Executive branch ( that was yesterday ) . But I am not encouraged that the Vince Foster and Ron Brown deaths are not reinvestigated, with such apparent blatant coverups. On the RB case, two AFIP pathologists spoke up before they were silenced -- the AFIP prides itself on being truthful and and is well respected -- so I believe them -- not the coverup.

As you probably know, the FBI is investigating all sorts of leads in Arkansas -- Clinton territory.

I am hoping that the FBI lab is no longer compromised. Are you going to tell me that you see not one iota of a move toward honesty in any branch of the US government?

By the way, I saw through BC and did not vote for him. If only he could use his god given talents to do something constructive. I honestly think he does not know what to do with himself if he is not running for election. It is clear he has no sense of history -- because if he did - he would see what he is heading for.

Mach: If you are in the military for the reasons you stated, you have my respect. And my sympathy. It is not MY armed forces. I have no interests in the Balkans or the Korean Penissula which require it. Whether the Kleptocratic Sheiks, Emirs ,and Kings in the middle eastern desert continue to hold their people in virtual slavery for the benefit of the big oil companies is of no interest to me either. The founding fathers had it right when they feared a standing army almost as much as they feared the excesses of democracy.

MY armed forces would consist of enough strategic capability to deter attack, a slimmed down Marine corps for possibly necessary expeditions to protect and rescue our citizens and property around the world, and EVERY MALE citizen trained, armed and ready to muster at a moments notice if we are really threatened.

ps: I've got some close relatives in the military who dont exactly fit your description. : )

Date: Thu Jan 29 1998 22:49
Ziva ( BART KITNER ) ID#302251:
BART, maybe it is time to remove Oris from this forum.

I sincerely hope that you are not "a typical woman"...that is, when you don't get your owen way, you "wink" your eye lashes at the Boss !

Following him blindly...I don't believe you even realize it.... be your own
man... have your own thoughts and ideas.... this is a free country....
I am only taking time out to point this out to you, because you have made
it so obvious.... you are making yourself look very silly..... indeed.

Old Soldier: It is easy to forget the real reason why Saddam is still around after all these years. It is not necessarily a complicated -- keep him in power to keep our fingers in the Middle East -- story. It is because the Armed Forces are controlled by politicians who want a response -- but not too big a one. Viet Nam was the same way. It's hard to fight a war when you are always being told to restrain yourself.

There is logic to restraint -- but the rules of engagement should be clearly spelled out -- but I doubt that they are when the politicians are in charge of the battlefield.

Ziva ---Zigzagging Zilch of pretentious Astrological milieu

The US Military has no need for the Balkans or the Korean Penissula either. You are taking aim at the wrong target. You should be taking aim at your fearless leaders inside the beltway. I too have comrades who don't fit my description, but that doesn't make the entire military so.

Machf15

PS Keep your sympathy for someone else ( possibly yourself ) , flying fighters at 800 knots, 50 feet off the ground beats the hell out of any job you've ever had, I'm sure.

IDT 23:21 I am no expert on the Veterans March action. From what I do know, it was not a proud moment for the Army or FDR who ordered it. Your point is well taken but I think it is one thing to take police action against a group squatting in the capitol and quite another to support a martial law that is perceived to be unjust and unnecessary and directed against the people as a whole..

Oris 23:25 Some Soviet equipment is clearly the best in the world for its intended use.

ADMs, I heard with my own ears directly from a former Politburo Member that the Soviet Union and later independent states had for a fact lost control of nuclear weapons at least numbering in the middle hundred. They had such a poor inventory system toward the end that things simply disappeared. This does not necessarily mean hundreds of fully functional weapons. Many were developmental, turned in for maintenance or just parts. We are also talking about nuclear weapons of all types. Weapons designed for artillery, bombs and missiles are not of much use by terrorists unless highly modified by technical experts. The longer they go unused the more they deteriorate and the less dangerous they are.

You are right, this is a free country...
Anything else you would like to point out?

May I suggest that:

1. It gives the West for being there, and

2. It gives the West a reason to start a war, when required.