Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:00 - ID#335190)
Labour Peace Thais @ No Insurance for unemployed workers. Major "The People Trouble"
Thais seek World Bank loan to beat unemployment

BANGKOK, Jan 31 ( Reuters ) - Cash-strapped Thailand said on Saturday it was confident of getting an extra $300 million in loans from the World Bank to tackle the growing unemployment problem arising from its worst economic crisis in decades.

The World Bank has already pledged $1.5 billion to the $17.2 billion multilateral rescue package arranged by the International Monetary Fund for Thailand to revive its battered economy.

Most Asian countries have virtually no unemployment insurance. With rising costs of living, the problem will get worse if not promptly addressed, he said.

"But there are millions of people who also live just above the international poverty line...they should be regarded as vulnerable...some of them are losing jobs," he said.

"I don't think it is unduly harsh...No one, the IMF or World Bank, are trying to ruin Thailand. We want to work with Thailand," he said.

He also stressed that the problems faced by countries such as Thailand and other regional economies in their banking and financial sector was due to inadequate supervisory systems.

Suits, are now just discovering inadequate financial supervisory systems. One would expect these Professionals, to research such matters at the first stage of advancing loans. Mushrooms-R-Us - Trust a Professional eh!

Unless, of course, this is in fact the economic game plan of the International Bankers. Create an economic mess, and then provide the "conditional" economic resolve.

"The Debt will not die with the Debtor"

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:06 - ID#227238)
2BR02B: Spoken exclusively by poets and palpably false. Poetry: Commonly a means of recasting reality to make it palatable to the masses. Without ever modifying the subject in the process. Moonbeams bouncing around in empty glasses. ...... Save for R. Service, of course.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:07 - ID#335190)
We must dare to think "unthinkable" thoughts. We must learn to explore all the options and possibilities that confront us in a complex and rapidly changing world.

We must learn to welcome and not fear the voices of dissent. We must dare to think about "unthinkable things" because when things become "unthinkable", thinking stops and action becomes "mindless"

J. William Fulbright

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:11 - ID#199183)
Pat Schroeder's Army
Earl: Not only will they not stand up to the Patsy Schroeders of the world, they are being indoctrinated with her bullcrap. I have a nephew who is approaching 20 yrs service. He said that they had spent more time during the past 3 years learning how to behave properly toward females, minorities, perverts, and other "preferred" groups, than they had spent on purely military subjects. No officer who is deviant from the party line on political correctness can possibly rise above field grade. If he is at all vocal, he is OUT immediately. If an officer promotes the desired number of women and minorities, and is willing to falsify readiness reports, he can count on a star on his collar in due course.

I posted here yesterday based on what I'd heard first-hand, without knowing about the Hillen article, which I found today. It sure is nice to be backed up by the CFR.: )

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:12 - ID#227238)
6 pak: With all due respect to the memory of Senator Fulbright; what on earth could he have been thinking of when he began to advance the career of our executive knothead??

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:14 - ID#57232)
A fitting response to 2BR02B? G'Nite all!
I have not come up with a fitting poetic reply to your insightful words, as you are right that immersion in the world of science tends to take away the beauty and wondrousness of discovery. But -- the most successful scientists I have known did indeed keep up the poetic spirit. I never met Einstein, but I have met other famous scientists of lesser stature. Some of those with the greatest soaring spirit were no scientists at all, but writers of science. Have your read "The Life of a Cell" By Lewis Thomas?

I will close tonight with some quotes I found -- perhaps more obscure than the ones you posted, but I think relevant to some of our topics of discussion over the last several nights. I am proud to be an American, but disappointed in our current direction. However, our great democratic system does offer the opportunity for change, no matter how unlikely it seems right now -- speaking from what seems to be the bottom of the well:

Carl Schurz, address to the American Congress, 1872:
'Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right.'

Another from Herbert Spencer - 1829-1903:
'Morality knows nothing of geographic boundaries or distinctions of race.'
And -- another from Herbert Spencer about State Tamperings with Money Banks:
'The ultimate effect of shielding men from folly is to fill the world with fools'

Good nite! Must go to work again tomorrow. No rest for the weary as they say!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:15 - ID#266105)

Poetry is a difficult thing to argue. And arguing science
with a scientist endlessly dissatisfying for they are always
changing their minds.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:18 - ID#227238)
Oldman: Females in body bags will change things muy pronto. But I doubt that any will contain the mortal clay of any kin to lacrimose Pat. More's the pity. ....... The more they advance their collective agenda, the more it becomes apparent that the affinity of sisterhood has some mighty quirky contradictions in it. But that don't come under the heading of my problem. ..... yet.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:20 - ID#199183)
Earl:Fulbright foisted them onto the people of Arkansas. He'd still be down there, using state troopers to fetch the Dogpatch lasses to him, had he not been taken under the wing of Bobby Rubin. Hillary's off to Switzerland. So is Vernon Jordan. Hmmmmmm.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:24 - ID#335190)
I had no idea of Fulbright's promotion of the career of these executive knotheads. His quote was a good one. Hell, we all say something worth while, once and a while eh!.

As a Canadian, we have a surplus of executive Knotheads, trained in the USofA, and home grown also. Maybe Fulbright had a hand in the promotion of our Canadian Knotheads. : ) : ) : )

Thanks, Take Care.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:28 - ID#227238)
2BR02B: It doesn't deserve a sturdy argument but is it your contention that yer average poet's outlook and position is immutably bound and unfalteringly directed across time and space? As if set to the tune of a steel rail and never to be changed? .... Pshawwww. I'm being only semi serious. I enjoy poetry but much of it does not enjoy me. ..... If it don't have rhythm, I can't handle it. Which leaves out a large body of the subject.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:29 - ID#266105)

Say Earl, Oldman. I read a quote in the WSJ some days
ago that went something like 'squeeze the political process
as a fix for Social Security' credited to Vice President Gore
as a strategy.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:30 - ID#365190)
short musings on kitco discussion group itself
It has always amazed me how a group of physically disconnected people, meeting in a public forum like this one, can thresh about ideas, news, opinions, comments and experiences ... and result in a situation where there is a net gain in knowledge. The whole is truly greater than the sum of its individual parts.

Between the musings of [too many to describe], news postings from DA [among others] and even contrarian views ( as long as they're ... ahem ... kept within limits ) ... this forum has been a boon for me and, I'm sure, for lots of others ( lurkers or otherwise ) as well.

Keep the posts coming and let our collective intelligence grow :- )

[and yeah, go Gold!]

p.s. you're welcome, 6pak.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:30 - ID#57232)
I hope your were speaking in jest!
Earl: I hope your response to 2BRO2B? was in jest. If not, you are missing some of the greatest things created by mankind. I have often thought that the time of the great composers and artists was a time that overshadowed our current time of science. Who is to say that our current stage of enlightenment is at the pinnacle of human knowledge, when on contemplation you realize that in listening to a great piece of music you can predict the future by the sounds that have passed by your ears?

Do you know of any other situation where you as a mere human can predict the future with any uncertainty? I for one cannot.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:32 - ID#57232)
G'Nite all!
Glad to see all is well!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:34 - ID#199183)
body bags
Earl: There wont be many body bags under the Slick one. He'll never use ground forces against anyone that has the capacity to fight back. They DO understand the concept of wverwhelming force. The use of armored vehicles and helicopter gunships to destroy a plywood church in Waco proves that.: )

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:35 - ID#266105)

As regards poetry, and writing in general probably,
I was thinking more along the lines of 'the meaning of
life is not something discovered, it is something moulded'
( Antoine deSaint-Exupery ) . Whenever I see that it reminds
me of something found in the bottom of the refrigerator. ( g )

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:37 - ID#227238)
Limericks be better. ..... They always deal with topics that are, at once dear and easily understood. No messin' around searching for the subliminal. Or grasping to understand something that, likely, was never there to begin with. After all if it's easily understood by the hog washer, it loses a certain snob appeal. Limericks and most of R. Service, never suffer the same impediment to enjoyment. Graphic arts. Often at their R rated finest. Methinks.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:47 - ID#266105)

Earl, copy that or most of it I think. Gotta fight for
the computer here and get off it for better uses ( Dad, how
do I footnote a webpage? "I don't know." Well, my English
book has no rules. "Get used to it." ) Outta here.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:51 - ID#227238)
Oldman: I do hope and pray that sounder heads will prevail. If M. Albright continues in pursuit of her most delicious adventure, I seriously fear a far different outcome from 1991. The Dogpatch twins have become laughers on the world stage. Coupled with our heavy hand in foreign affairs has placed us in an increasingly precarious position.

While led by lunatics, we are evidently about to, once again, poke a stick into the hornet's nest that is the ME. Evidently, as you say, there will not be a commitment of ground troops so that is all it will be. Poking a stick in there and stirring it up. Nothing more. For all the vaunted "power at a distance" that we possess, it does not, cannot ever, carry the day. ........ It's truly a sorry ass situation. One more marker in the decline of empire. In the meantime we will lose additional liberty as those in the ME respond to US actions. Soon we will need strip searches to board an airplane.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 00:59 - ID#335190)
Banks & Robbers @ Belgium Banks Truck Guards being killed.
January 31, 1998
Armored convoys, helicopters escort cash in Belgium's security strike

BRUSSELS ( AP )  Police in helicopters and convoys of armored cars guarded cash runs to Belgian banks Saturday, pressed into service by a three-week-old strike by bank truck guards.

The strike, called after robbers shot and killed two guards Jan. 12, has left automatic teller machines empty and Belgium's banks with a cash-flow problem. Supermarkets have the opposite problem  they're stuck with piles of cash that they are unable to get safely to banks.

Fearing robbery attempts on the supermarket cash stockpiles, Interior Minister Johan Vande Lanotte ordered police to collect the money. Saturday's was the second major bank run in eight days.

The latest round of talks Friday with employers to increase protection and improve working conditions failed to make headway, leaving no prospect of the strike ending until at least the middle of next week.

The guards have rejected a proposal to equip armored cars with safes that destroy their contents if opened incorrectly, in part because employers would then cut staffing of the bank trucks from three to two.

Vande Lanotte said on Belgian radio Saturday that it was up to employers and unionists to work out an accord.

Last week's deadly robbery on the Liege-Brussels highway was the latest in a string of violent raids on bank trucks. Over the Christmas holiday, another security guard was shot dead while collecting money from a suburban shopping mall.

John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 01:00 - ID#24135)
the Muse awakes in Africa
For Earl - Moonbeans in empty glasses - not bad
For 2bro2b - I come down firmly on your side in this
debate -
For Oris - Jeez - sounds like hell over there -
keep your head dowm
To all - believe Military problem best solved by
using female human wave kamikaze attacks on well
defended positions. Female death's head and crossed
bra battalions.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 01:04 - ID#227238)
JTF: I fear you have extrapolated from the specific to the general. Not fair. Unless, of course, you are lumping arts together in some sort of artful soup and calling it poetry. More, whatever denigration of poetry I may have occasioned it was mostly a light tweek. ..... It is after all, Saturday nite and normal rules do not apply. ....... Hmmmm. 'n I guess they don't have to apply for you either. : ) )

(Sun Feb 01 1998 01:07 - ID#335190)
Say Good Night 6pak @ Good night 6pak

(Sun Feb 01 1998 01:12 - ID#227238)
John Disney: Top 'O the mornin' ta ya. I trust yer well rested for the joust. ....... Like your idea on the all female sapper unit. .... If they are able to handle the dreadful double entende; the unit motto could be "Hey diddle diddle. Straight up the middle". ... with thanks to whoever posted that line earlier.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 01:18 - ID#227238)
Think I'll join 6 pak. .... rhetorically speaking. Nite all.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 01:22 - ID#255151)
At Your Service

Now here is a poem with rhythm.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 02:16 - ID#318183)
I don't think I can buy MORE gold!
Oldman - does your last comment mean the US loses the next war?? I think I already own enought gold !! lol

(Sun Feb 01 1998 02:19 - ID#28585)
His popularity surging in the last several days owing to the Lewinsky sex scandal, BC is reportedly contemplating a penis piercing in order to win unanimous approval from Generation X.

A satisfied Prez told the press, "The polls show my approval ratings are up...almost 80% of the public feel I do a helluva job. Still, a lot of the kids are still sitting on the fence...and so I've gotta do what's necessary to win over those remaining young cynics. To that effect, I am having my penis pierced and in doing so, I hope to build yet another bridge to the 21st century."

Major networks are planning to broadcast the piercing in all its glory once the date is finalized for the operation. Announcement of the impending broadcast left many political pundits incensed by the "lack of discretion" on BC's part.

However, BC dismissed the pundits protests.

"I know the public takes great interest in my crooked Willie...and I would hate to deny the public full disclosure of all matters pertaining to the Washington Post. I have done all I can to keep my White House staff in the news and I will not allow any "right wing conspiracy " to keep it shrouded in secrecy. The American People have a right to know."

"Furthermore, young chicks dig a little metal in their mouths while they
lap at the ol' Glory. So, if it makes for better extra-marital sex, hell, what's wrong with that?"

The Prez further sought to reassure the critics that the piercing would consist of an "all-American steel alloy" and "none of that Russkie platinum or palladium."

John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 02:20 - ID#24135)
Get Up .. Coffee.. pet a dog.. Kick a dwarf
Morning in Africa .. The lions growl themselves
awake .. a crocodile blinks his watery spindrift eye
toward heaven as he floats the Limpopo... in a village
at the Northern end of the great rift escarpement a
Danakil girl fingers her stitches and dreams of what
might have been ...

Sing a song of Kitco, Pockets full of ...

Ah a note on the shoemakers desk ... left by a midnight
dwarf no doubt that has NOT licked my boots Clean.
Hark lets read ...

1. ABX has 370 Mill Shares out agreed.
( so far thats really sweet )

2. Drooy has 39 Mill Shares out ( in his dreams )
Drooy has 51 Mill Shares out, with Mill more options, and will need to issue Mill more
for $ .
( I read from DD quarterly statement - 39,013,450
ordinary shares, 2,568,123 preferred shares, 2,637,950
options, 8,937,607 b options - Now what has the little
fellow done - Why this mathmatically and vertically
challanged creature has added the options in with
stock. AS I said - the options have a strike price of
60 I think - which the dwarf obviously thinks
will be struck SOON - really?? - Id better buy some then )

3.ABX has 51 Mill oz.reserves ( in his dreams )
4.ABX has a total 76 Mill oz of minable materials and as the price of Gold moves up to 450 can easily double or tripple this.

( but dwarf man ... The mining journal states that ABX has 51.1 mil
oz of gold RESERVES at year end 1996. In addition abx
identifies 25 mill oz of gold resources. There is no
mention of this TRIPPLING at 450 -- and why ?? these
boys are hedged till forever )

5.Drooy has 110 Mill oz. ( in his dreams )

( Now Now little fella ... sit upon my knee and
lets read some more from the mining Journal.
Total proven reserves in the whole group are
estimated at 449 mil tonnes of underground ore at a
grade of 7.8 g/tonne of gold, and 116 mill tonnes
of surface and open pit ore at 0.6 gram/tonne. Multiply
and add if you can - check me - I often err.
For life of mine purpose at 300$/oz, they claim
486,000 KG or only 15 mill oz. At 3$ a share on
ordinary shares market cap is 3*39=117/15 = $7.8
per oz. After the stock rises to strike ( say 11$ )
,as hopefull devil dwarves believe it will, options
will be exercised and we could have a market cap
of 11$* 51 = 561mil/15 = 37$/oz. ABX on the same
same will be 20*373 = 7640/51.1 = $145/oz.
This will be the picture only after Drooy has gone up
3.5 more times from where it is now -and ABX has not
moved. )
But look little dwarf PLEASE READ- why are you so
interested in DDeeps - I have NONE nor have I recommended
it nor do I recommend stocks anyway ... Ive said that
I would buy some if gold went over 330. Thats what
I WILL DO - I dont care what you do. My purpose in
life is not to promote RSA or Australia but rather
to seek good company make money where it can be
easily found enjoy myself to the fullest broaden
my skills and knowledge try to solve interesting
problems and To the extent possible RID THE WORLD
drift ?? Is this the reason that you try to put
words in my mouth and then attack me ?? Is it
because you KNOW my true purpose. I dont want
anyone to buy anything ... I was only put on Earth
to try to drive YOU mad. Each time you open your
doggy breath mouth you remind me of that. O
thank you one again for having set me once more
on my true appointed path. It was such a nice
morning I had almost forgotten, little hairball.

John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 02:43 - ID#24135)
We should take it easy .. spend some profits
For 2bro2b
Read Night Flight
For Earl
Ill tell that motto to the Danakil girl - It'll
have her in stiches ... oops
To All
A forecast just to inflame a dwarf ... Silver to
6.55, Gold to 320 ... then the rot sets in. Time
say by mid - late february. Take some profits -
take a break - read a book - see a flick - chase a

(Sun Feb 01 1998 02:43 - ID#238422)
John Disney
John, what's the average salary of miner,
I mean salary of guy digging dirt in the gold

(Sun Feb 01 1998 02:43 - ID#335184)
How do you measure the velocity of money ? What resourse is there in print ?


Tar Baby

(Sun Feb 01 1998 02:48 - ID#228283)
@ John Disney re:01:00 post...

In a vein attempt to always be sensative and politically correctI would like to ad some comments regarding your proposed all female battallion.

First we divide them into P.M.S. groups. As you know, some are ovulating,some post PMS ,some pre PMS.

Second, the really mean ones are 2nd day PMS. THESE are our combat troops!!!

What man in his right mind could stand up to that??

Third, WE pay them in gold.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 02:54 - ID#365190)
the land of the free?

legislation to *require* a disclaimer on evolution in biology textbooks???

now I wonder why the U.S. of A is still such a "great" nation ...

John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 02:57 - ID#24135)
in de mines in de mines where de sun never shines
For Oris -
I dont know exactly - but I would say tops 100 US a week
and probably less. Most miners originate in Bush in places
like lesotho Malawi mozambique swaziland up country Natal.
Mining is dangerous dirty job, however alternative of life
in bush is much more dangerous and pay is zero.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 03:02 - ID#335184)
AU & M3
AU / Mining index moved sharply higher as of Jan. 30 to 1.29 equaling Dec 9 level.

M3 Adjusted at 8.7%.

Tar Baby

(Sun Feb 01 1998 03:06 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Before I go to bed, here is
a Russian ( may-be anti-Russian )
anecdote for you.

Russians brought karatist from Japan,
to see his fighting skills.

Karatist, little guy, 120 lbs., 5 feet.

So, Russians found a big Russian guy, 200 lbs,
6 feet, called Ivan, to fight Japanese,
and asked little guy: "Can you do him?"

Japanese said:"Me do, me do", jumped and
kicked big guy with his foot. Ivan
dropped dead...

What to do, what to do? So Russians found
another guy, Petr, 220 lbs, 6.5 feet, restling
champ. Asked Japanese: "Can you do this one?"

Japanese said: "Me do....", jumped and kicked
Petr with his other foot. Petr dropped like
a sand bag, could say nothing and then died...

What to do??? Russians searched the whole
Russia, found the biggest guy - Nikolai, from
Siberia, who used to kill bears with his
bear hands, 300 lbs, 7 feet tall..

Asked Japanese:" Can you do THIS GUY??????"
Japanese said" Me do...", jumped and kicked
Nikolai with both feet. Nikolai dropped
like a rock. Russians rushed to him...

In a minute or so Nikolai finally opened one
of his eyes and whisped: "Is this little
one with narrow eyes still here?"

"Yes, yes, he is here...Nikolai, he is here ",
was an answer from the crowd of the excited Russians ...

Nikolai closed his eyes and said:

"O'key, guys, when he leaves, I'll kill you all..."

John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 03:07 - ID#24135)
Disney's general theory of irritation
for ersel
2nd day PMS = angry dwarf = inflamed armpit

John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 03:18 - ID#24135)
I know what Nikolai feels like
For Oris
Great story ... these little guys .. You should see my
ankles ... ugly

(Sun Feb 01 1998 03:59 - ID#153102)
The Disney Forecast
"Silver to 6.55, Gold to 320 ... then the rot sets in."

What rot ?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 04:03 - ID#255151)
newtron-Velocity of Money

This might be helpful
htm Always was a bit partial to Monetarism,

(Sun Feb 01 1998 04:05 - ID#255151)
Try that again

(Sun Feb 01 1998 04:07 - ID#255151)
DOH! ( Cross your fingers! )

(Sun Feb 01 1998 04:09 - ID#255151)
Velocity of Money

The 04:07 will take you there.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 04:16 - ID#335184)
There is no harm in maintaining & safe guarding 4000 year old moral belief systems, even if they do not comport with your post-modern view of the current "scientific paradigm" of the infallibilty of the THEORY of evolution ! I have given the theory of evolution a great deal of thought & study & while I seriously question many of it's central postulates, I in no way consider it necessarily hostile to mainstream or even fundamentalist Western religious thought.
WHOWEVER, America's ( Read Western/OCCIDENTAL ) greatness owes much more to the belief in what you would call myths ( The Ark of Noah, The fall of Sodom & Gamorra, The redemtion of Abraham's son, Issach, Etc., than all the scientific advances of their genius. For example, you don't have to be a Lodite too appreciate that while say, atomic energy or better, fusion, is an enormous boon to all societies a just or moral society is agreater good. On the other hand, ( Heaven forbid ) we could abandon or even cease discussing the thought of evolution, with but a ripple to the things that are esential to progress or conservation of cultural or even scientific consequence.
No, my friend Ravenfire, the miricle would be to maintain greatness without remaining grounded in the cores of these things you would seem to trivialize or if we failed to be circumspect about theories that "APPEAR" to be corrosive to the sacred things which alone can succesfully hold society together. Americans, especially Southern Americans, are reluctant to elevate the material truths you percieve over the transcendental ones we crave.
What came before the primordial soup ? What came before the Big Bang ?
Where does material come from ? Why do they call evolution a theory ?
Why does thought or action matter?
There are stranger & more wonderful things in heaven & earth than are dreampt of in your paradigm ! Maybe that text book disclaimer you marvel at is prophylactic only & won't sap whatever greatness we may have achieved. I'll go with the Neandertals , thank you very much !

"Darn he's done quit preaching & gone to medling" !

Tar Baby
P.S., In case your out there lurking, PH in LA on the left coast, listening to this "BACK GROUND NOISE TO THE BIG BANG" & can't see the import or relevance to the price of silver or Navy Beans in Cina, just sit on it, O.K. ?

P.SS.,I don't want to clog the cyber waves with ethereal clattertrap, so throw your book burning brick bats at TNEWTRON AOL.COM


John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 04:25 - ID#24135)
The velocity of money and the case of the dreaded ROT
for mozel
You will find out about the dreaded rot after gold hits
320 ( ish ) and it sets in.
For Newtron
Auric's method is good but indirect. I measure money velocity
like this.
Get in car and prowl around. When I see money flying down the
freeway, I drive up behind it draw level and check speedo.
Last time I timed some, it was fast, maybe 120 clicks. The
money was clearly marked M2. Its as good a way as any.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 04:41 - ID#153102)
Do you know distribution of US debt by maturity of obligation ? And average interest rate of maturities ?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 04:47 - ID#335184)


(Sun Feb 01 1998 04:48 - ID#153102)
The rot
Is this prediction connected with previous thread by someone regarding the appearance of the work of termites ?

Or is it related to the deployment of Amazon Commando Divisonal Corps ( AC/DC in government speak ) ?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 04:53 - ID#153102)
Disney POG
This is merely a research hunch, but I think a correlation should exist between POG and the height of the hemline on dresses and skirts. What do you think ?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 05:05 - ID#335184)


(Sun Feb 01 1998 05:24 - ID#335184)


(Sun Feb 01 1998 05:46 - ID#317193)
Gold Loan Defaults??????
Just a newbie who needs HELP.Posts by Donald, Kiwi and JTF on 1/31 @ 17:00+ about Korean banks defaulting on gold loans. Apparantly, UBS and other european banks are now faced with huge derivitive loses. SHORTS on gold from last summer to January to raise US$??? Soros in Korea-yes. Gold collections in Korea,Mala&Indo-yes. Gold to back EU paper? Not if it isn't there anymore. China, no devaluation but a tie to some type of gold standard in order to remain competetive and save Hong Kong???????? Japan's bank basically BK and can't borrow on the international market. Soros into siver-owns mines-yes. Silver in short supplly-yes.OK all you people in the know- what the hell is going on??? Gold lease rates are up-WHY? Is there now some risk in not getting the gold back? Currency contagion SE Asia, Canada, Mexico and on and on. Something is up with the BIG money boys. Please help this newbie put the pieces together. THANKS-Tom.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 06:09 - ID#39845)
TYoung its hard to put a finger on it but_________
The way this is playing out its reading like no bloody
accident. This "World Financial Crisis of 1998" has been
engineered by the boys with the guns. Something big
is up ( and not Bill's privates ) I think like major
international bank, reserve bank drama, possibly oil,
but then again most probably a war of confidence. This
is all just a con job with asian fall guys takin a ride
to oblivion. Sleep easy America for tomorrow the winds
of change will awaken you.

Aurator. Flattened, oops I meant flattered. Pamela has
a way with me that puts the hours behind me. Selamat
malam friend.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 06:11 - ID#335184)



(Sun Feb 01 1998 06:59 - ID#317193)
Response to my post
Newtron and Hedgehog- thank you for your thoughts. I think China will act while it's market is closed this week. Just a far out guess. Time will tell. Something big is up. European bankers -CB peaple meet with gold producers. WHY??? Tom

(Sun Feb 01 1998 07:15 - ID#39845)
I cant get this picture of Clinton with his big cheesy grin
out of my head. He was looking at a photographer and he was
giving the camera the bird with his index finger. This was
back in April 97. As you would have expected he had the kiddies
huddling around him. It looked like he had just cooked up
something that was going to send something ( gold? ) out of our rational
sphere of understanding. That is UP and OOOOUUTTTTTTTTT!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 07:32 - ID#344206)
bema gold
Does any one know of any positive developments occuring at bema? I went to sleep early last night and do not know if someone replied earlier.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 07:36 - ID#302251)


I just listened to Sean David Morton
Americas best psychic/scientist,
in the Art Bell archives:
click on Jan-29-1998
and go 3:20 hours into the program.
( The interview with Sean actually starts one hour into the program )
Sean has contacts at the top of the Pentagon
as his father is/was president of TRW.

Sean said:
The USA is now alone
as all of our allies are on the side of Iraq,
since Iraq COMPLIED with ALL UN requirements.

Sean said that the reason that we are attacking Iraq is,
that we dont want them to sell oil and drop the price of oil.

We will hit Iraq from a battleship with nuclear missiles .
Our battleship is NOW in the Mediterranean on the way to Iraq.

The Iraqis will hit us and Israel with Anthrax terrorist attacks.


Israelies already have gas masks, DO YOU ?

Last time some of you told me that you dont have a sound card.
Go to your local computer store and buy it RIGHT NOW !

We are not speculating anymore,



(Sun Feb 01 1998 07:42 - ID#302251)
URL correction.......add the second line to URL

(Sun Feb 01 1998 07:57 - ID#403335)
Oldman: Do you think this gold rally is headed higher, or is destined to fail?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 08:09 - ID#398105)


Is your surname "Strangelove" by any chance, and is your hubby a Doctor.

In relation to your posting - what should the American public do ?!

Weapons of mass distruction ....... the USA has most of these I believe ?

Anthrax.......both you and Cherokee avoided my question concerning Americas' sale of Anthrax to Iraq - anything to make a dollar ?

You should check that bolt in your neck, I think that it may be becoming loose ?!

Aye, Haggis

(Sun Feb 01 1998 08:39 - ID#238295)
new party line
The new line on Wall Street seems to be that the era of double digit stock market gains may be ending, but it will replaced by an era of high single digit gains -- serious bear market out of the question. Anything to keep the lemmings from getting out while the getting is good.

John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 08:50 - ID#24135)
Bugger DDeeps, I have Harmony anyway
to DD holders
In retrospect, to humour the little people, Ill do all
calcuations bases on proven and probable reserves -
this is 51.1 for abx based latest MJ 15.5 for DD and
13 P&P for Harmony ( out of 70 mill total reserves ) .
The inclusion of options as stock is unbearably
stupid. The strike ( I checked ) is 55 ( 11$ ) - you get
the stock IF you pay 55 rand to the company - hardly
If we include the 2.5 mill preferred stock - the MJ
does all calcs on ordinaries only- we get 41.5 mill.
The other numbers were little people tiny white lies.
So - 51/373 = .136oz p&p reserves for ABX and 15/41.5
or .36 PPR for DD. thus dd should sell on reserve
basis at ( .36/.136 ) *20$ = 53$ with no increase in the
price of ABX. I await ABX most recent quarter to
calculate their costs.
Harmonys numbers are similar - with 42 mill ords out
no preferred - some options also at 55 or 60 - but
above comment would apply. The little one is so
defensive of his collapsing NA stocks he is unable to
grasp how options work. Harmony has lower costs that
deeps and probably soon lower than abx.
The major disadvantage of the RSA stocks is that
you sometimes get drawn into pointless time wasting
arguments with unpleasant jerks. I doubt if its
worth it - OK maybe buy them but dont tell anybody.
I go to the pool now and tan me skin - the sun will
help heal my ankle - my god - is it festering - Is
it gangrene??

(Sun Feb 01 1998 08:56 - ID#253389)
ZIVA - Go away!!
I've tried being polite ( and am not too good at being rude ) but, I must let you know I think you're full of it. I'm not saying there aren't risks for the course our leadership? has charted - I'd just rather stumble blindly over the cliff than listen to much more of what you have to say.

Steve - Perth
(Sun Feb 01 1998 09:02 - ID#284177)
Steve Blizards specially edited: NEWS VIA AUSTRALIA

Soros's right-hand man earns his wagers

Investors beware US market dream run

US Arms build up in Gulf

US develops "Bunker Buster" bombs

Israelis promised biological weapon vaccines, while they head for the gasmasks

Fear of further upheaval in Asia dominates Economic forum


China almost certain to devalue currency

Aussie market to Asian tourists die

$10bn Asian fallout


Moody's downgrade: Oz dollar, bonds feel pinch because of Asia

Thin edge of the US Mutual Fund Wedge

Scandal to end prestige for high priests of Japanese Finance

Jakarta's $95bn debt freeze

Lenders take the rap whereas borrowers owe debt to history

Now it's all for won and won for all

Little joy, big losses in Korean factories

Council on Foreign Relations & the NWO

The corruption of the House of Saud

The IMF needs a bailout, & the deals to get it

The Asian bug starts to bite the US

Singapore property takes a hit

MAI - A conspiracy theory worth worrying about

Costly lure of Globalisation - Setting the Scene for a Yen bloc

Asian fallout smooths Euro money union

The coming oil shock

Soros rumoured to clean up in Korea


Airlines cannot fix Y2K Bug in time ( Jan 15th article )

China still haunted by devaluation

Results indicate Gold oversold

Asian blowout feared for European car makers

Taiwan prepares for yuan's fall by June -- just in case

BOOKMARK Steves News Page:
( Courtesy of Colin Seymour )

(Sun Feb 01 1998 09:11 - ID#365190)
for newtron @ 04:16 re: monkey trials

Let me make one thing clear:
Whilst I'm not a Christian in the pure sense of the word ( ie. I'm not gonna believe the Bible anymore until God shows me mile-high flaming letters in the sky ) , I tolerate all Christians very well, except those who would force their beliefs upon others. An attempt to place Creationist Science ( which isn't a "science" as far as the definition of "science" goes ) in mainstream education is ridiculous.

Wake up and smell the evidence. The "theory" ( just as good a theory as the "theory" of gravity, the "theory" of relativity, etc. ) of evolution has arrived and neither the understanding or teaching of it would impinge upon moral/ethical values in any case except where it exists in your dirty little mind. Evolution per se does not question religion - go figure: Catholics have accepted it and so have some 'Christian' sects. Anyway, if you can think laterally, how big should "creation science" teaching be? Should it include the Hindu/Buddhist/Viking/whatever theories about how the world came into being as well? Where's the constitutional freedom of religion come in if there's not a fair playing field for all the *other* religions, huh?

The point of my earlier post was to point out that a country that continues to have these schizophrenic ideas of imposing forced religious indoctrination upon its children cannot be one that has a great future. No wonder the US Supreme Court ordered down earlier attempts to place laws similar to this into force in other states. Maybe the US Supreme Court judges are all pagan, anti-Christian immoral and unethical megalomaniacs, huh, newtron??

Carl Sagan was right when he said that basic science education in the US is slowly going down the drain. Congress should grab that budget surplus and plant it into moving the median score of American high school kids in science and math higher. ( Oops - they don't really have a budget surplus, do they? isn't the money just chasing the social security and the budget bottom line back and forth? )

Gee... I don't know why I'm so political today. Must be something to do with the big dinner I had. Goodnight.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 09:31 - ID#348286)
ZIVA, I think the sexual habits of Prez Bubba are much more urgent than any old anthrax attack.........

(Sun Feb 01 1998 09:52 - ID#344308)


i've not avoided ANY question from you!

don't be afrais of the lawnmower blade.......ask again...
it is very difficult to read ALL of kitco, all of the time....

now....since you realize that you are not dealing with ziva.....
try it again............with a grimace.........or smile.....

(Sun Feb 01 1998 10:02 - ID#333131)
Korea internal debt problems rumbling. No more good news from Korea.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 10:08 - ID#333131)
S Korea export prices up 74% in won y/y, 23% in Jan. Is this going to help?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 10:13 - ID#333131)
JTF, Lower interest rates in S Korea? Evidence of phase change?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 10:14 - ID#286199)
Ravenfire et al
Science is concerned with precise use of terms. I have found it very difficult to discuss controversial topics like creation vs. evolution until terms have been defined. I use Webster and an old physics text for the following.

Hypothesis - a provisional theory set forth as a preliminary explanation and a guide to further research.

Theory - a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena. NOTE: more or less verified and therefore open to debate

Law - a statement of of a relation or sequence of phenomena invariable under the same conditions.

Newton's work on gravity is classified as "Law" because it meets all of the requirements of a scientific law. Einsteins theories of relativity both general and specific are still not laws, yet have been accepted as better than hypotheses. Darwin's theory of evolution is considered passe by most evolutionists. It is not a law and most evolutionists have adopted other evolutionary theories. It is an excellent beginning point for real scientific debate.

Theories of evolution and creation, especially as related to origins, tend to be mutually exclusive and all are non-verifiable by the scientific method. Neither evolution nor creation is demonstrable in a lab, repeatable, currently observed, falsifiable ( scientific term ) , and therefore cannot be truthfully taught as "laws".

The current public school controversy in the U.S. concerns what is taught as science and what is taught as dogma. The creationist case excludes the Bible, Koran, Talmud etc. and is concerned with challenging evolutionary doctrine which is taught as fact and is in reality only speculation or theory. The high priests of evolution don't like having their turf challenged and usually refuse to debate on purely scientific grounds. There exists an active group of Ph.D. holders who travel to various colleges and universities and debate evolution/creation on the merits of science alone. They usually win.

I can give you specific science in example without ever referring to God, the Bible etc., but we'd have to take it off-line since this is a GOLD forum.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 10:20 - ID#333131)
World Bank President double talk on Asia:

(Sun Feb 01 1998 10:29 - ID#57232)
You were right about US policy regarding Iraq
Oldman: You predicted that our approach in Iraq would be to use heavy weaponry instead of personnel. This morning we officially announced that we would use tactical nuclear weapons if Iraq launched a ( major? ) WMD attack on Israel. Unfortunately, according to the news article, these low-yield nuclear weapons do have associated fallout. The really clean ones, or the non-nuclear bunker-busters are not ready yet.

This shows the folly of not having an effective troop presence near Iraq -- the potential escalation to the nuclear level is in, even before we start. This is the real danger we risk by downgrading troop strength and readiness.

I am worried for another reason in addition to our threat to use nuclear weapons -- which will not deter Saddam anyway. An -- that is that Saddam is in a 'no win' situation. If he persists in the status quo -- he will eventually be assassinated by the Iraqi's who are getting tired of seeing his supporters live well while the average Iraqi starves. So -- he has nothing to lose by an 'all-out' attack on Israel when the war of nerves with the US ends. I think he wants to make it look like the US is the aggressor in this next war, so he will go down in Arab History books as a martyr to the Arab cause -- the one who stood up to the 'great satan'. Anything less than self-immolation in this manner will mean that he will go down in history only as a 'madman'.

I hope I am wrong about this -- I think it is madness to go to the brink of Nuclear war to protect our oil interests, when most of our oil comes from other sources anyway. As someone on this site mentioned, our efforts in the Middle East would have been much better served promoting democratic moevements instead of 'supporting' strongmen like Saddam, even if that support is currently very subtle.

We should be trying to patch things up with Iran -- while it is still possible with the new moderate president. This opportunity will not last very long.

My guess is that we may have a major embarrassment from that part of the world -- what might happen if one of those little missle-equipped speed boats put a hole in the Independence or the Nimitz? Does Iraq have any -- or just Iran? And -- there may be a secret pact between Syria, Iraq , Egypt and Iran. This will not be the 'turkey-shoot' of the Kuwait war, so I hope we do it right, and quickly.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 10:38 - ID#26793)
"It wil be getting worse and worse and worse and there will be no good news from Korea"

(Sun Feb 01 1998 10:41 - ID#288295)
We do have a lovely non-nuclear weapon know as fuel-air explosives which ( as far as I know ) was not used in the gulf war, but which can cause localized devastation similar to that caused by low-yield tactical nuclear weapons. However, I do not know if this is effective against hardened targets.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 10:41 - ID#26793)
Oops! I see you already had the Korea one.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 10:45 - ID#57232)
Interesting --
Carl: So -- perhaps we have the stimulus. The key question is whether the investment community will jump in no matter how low the interest rate is! I guess our phase change parameter should assay for the trickle of loans generated from this. My guess is: not even one loan generated.

My guess it that it will be just like the US post the 1929 crash -- no one will be willing to loan money, no matter how good the money supply terms are.

Now, what if the loans are guaranteed by the international banking community? We have been down that road before -- and that would probably lead to world - wide inflation.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 10:48 - ID#26793)
Here is a nice quote that explains the religious intolerance of some of the crazies of this world of ours:

"Individuals who do not understand the true meaning of their own religion kill members of other religions"

William Irwin Thompson

(Sun Feb 01 1998 10:52 - ID#57232)
Have to go to work ----
SilverBaron: The fuel-air explosives bomb is a surface-type weapon -- instant firestorm generation, I think, rather then explosive. That would not work against a hardened bunker, unless one could somehow exhaust the air supply. Very unlikely to work, I think, on anything with a sealable air supply. But -- I defer to the military experts on this matter.

I wonder what our military experts say about those cheap little missle equipped speed boats that ran circles around our destroyers in the shallow waters near Iran and Iraq -- could a flotilla of these penetrate the defenses of one of our carrier fleets? I hope not!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:00 - ID#26793)
Photographic use of silver rises 3% in 1997

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:05 - ID#31868)
John Disney_A
Finished walkin 47 mile of barbwire, ( mile is not plural here ) my gods bless that parcel of land known as RSA, two of my ( well now with the baby and all ) three of my truest friends are RSAians.

That pesky midget, my solution, ( if you are white, American, Christ like, read no further )

Drink lots, bunches, lose your temper, get angry, stop being peaceful, run out of your tent, grab the midget/dwarf, throw him in the oven, put a pan on the stove, remove the thing from the oven, fry him a little bit, wrap him in bacon, truss him, then take the little beast, shove him into the back end of your favorite camel, cut the string, since you want none attached, spank the camel and all will be better.

Trust me, the smile on the camel's face will tell you that you will never see the evil little beast again.

Thus endeth the lesson.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:10 - ID#26793)
Chronology of the Asian crisis

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:12 - ID#333131)
Love your quote on religion. Question: If the administration argument for helping the IMF bail out of S Korea foreign debt is their strategic and economic importance to us of S Korea, then how can we allow their domestic economy to disintegrate under the crush of internal bankruptcies? How is it that European and Japanese banks getting back their money keeps N Korea from invading, but S Korean economic disaster keeps them at bay?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:12 - ID#31868)
Look up the uses of silver in the manufacture of inventory that kills and you will find a whole new catagory to add to your uses of silver.

Get Camdesuss!!!!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:17 - ID#78279)

Cressy,im new to this forum.Have you checked out the site at SILICON INVESTOR? Its at! Bema has a forum there. Good luck.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:17 - ID#31868)

John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:20 - ID#24135)
The Mining Journal
Just noticed that the MJ has a URL
This is it - I subscribe to the Gold service - the
quarterly and the Monthly
Just for info but a visit is worth the trip

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:21 - ID#31868)
My mother is not a dog, my side never loses, bring on the intelligent.


Sunny day in NY...dreaming of sea-lions in the kelp off the coast of the Western part of the is good, enjoy it...kill anything that begins to deprive you of it.

Motto, a great place to chew the cudd...

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:26 - ID#365190)
@speed -- last remark on this off-topic thread
You, sir, claim to show me "scientific" ( and non-God, non-Bible to boot ) proof of Creationism but point me to ... which was, last I checked some months ago, a *Christian* Creationist site ( though it seems to be down now ) .


in any case, my closing remarks ( since this *is* a Gold site ) :
1 ) for the unconvinced/undecided, please also check out
and, if that's insufficient,
for more than you can chew.

2 ) I admit that citing gravity was a bad choice. It was done in haste. An interesting example of a "theory" that *is* thought that comes to mind, however, is Atomic Theory. It ain't a "Law" either, last I checked. since, as a "theory" it is still 'more or less verified and therefore open to debate', should we also _not_ teach this in public schools? maybe we should offer the ancient theory of the elements ( air, fire, water, earth ) as an alternative theory beside it?

3 ) I believe that, given enough time ( and with the hope that the median level of human intelligence can actually advance ) , the world society will end up more secular and the theistic arguments will boil down to whether God exists or not rather than to His identity ( gee ... is He Yahweh or Allah or Odin or Jupiter or ...? ) . btw, if you think laterally *enough*, even if God does exist, His existence would not mean that evolution is wrong -- just that He planned it that way. Now, what's so hard to believe about that?

enough on this topic already. The world goes on regardless and there's money to be made when the crunch comes for the financial markets. Go gold!

p.s. with any luck, gold's gonna take a few more beatings before the masses awaken to push the price into regions that'll make some central bankers think about resigning

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:27 - ID#228128)
Speed: Can you define evolution, not from Websters, but as defined in the science of evolution. I know that the president of the Foundation for Creation Science couldn't when I asked him to define it in his lecture series at Purdue University some years ago. I thought it was interesting that the guy was there to talk about how a principle of science was flawed couldn't even define it. What a farce. He came up with some idiotic, but very scientific sounding to the layman, logic about entropy such that evolution couldn't occur because life was negentropic and the theory of evolution dictates just the opposite. The physicts in the group got so disgusted with his misuse of the truth that they got up and left. We scientists were like a voice in the wilderness. His adoring fans booed and jeared any attempt to inject facts into the discussion. There is nothing that will discourage a group of zealots, least of all the truth.

Old Soldier
(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:28 - ID#185281)
Fuel-air Bombs
Fuel-air bombs are not new. I used them to great success in Vietnam. The bomb releases a gas or very fine combustible powder into the air immeditely over the target. After a short time for the combustible to disperse, the bomb provides a spark. It is the same type of explosion you get in natural gas filled buildings, flour mills or coal mines. The exlosion generates high over-pressure ( pressure way higher than normal atmospheric ) . This is devastating to troops in the open or bunkers that are not heavilly sealed. It would not be effective against Iraqi weapons bunkers. It does not generally cause a firestorm unless used against a flimsy target that has much fuel available.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:28 - ID#344308)


there are many aliiance in the middle east today, that did not exist
before the gulf war......

irna, syria, pakistan, and iraq have decided they have common interests
and have allied their long term goals with more than verbal agreements.....

the moderate oil producing countreis------uae, saudi arabia,...etc...
have agreed to embargo the west if we assist israel WHEN the
arabs attack......

sentiment has shifted........the us is pesona non gratis world-wide!!

things are quite different in the middle-east this time.......

things are not as they seem.........our armed services are vulnerable....
and we shall see the out-come as one of dis-belief and horror.......

the trap awaits.....klinton will spring-it.....and the rest will be

words cannot express the anger i feel towards those who could ask the
hard questions, but do the leaders who know
that god, family, and strength of same, are instrumental in EVERY MOVE
WE MAKE..........yet they close their eyes and say their hands are tied
by the actions of others.......bull sh!t........

we will become isolationist not by our is as the
world would have it.........until another hister hits the scene......


(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:28 - ID#31868)

-Mark Twain

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:36 - ID#390249)
Korean Gold Load Defaults
TYOUNG - I too am anxious to see how this plays out. If CB's are truly trying to manipulate the price of gold, I think they will simply rollover these loans to UBS and others. Couldn't they do this ad infinitum as the Japanese banks have done over the years? After all, they aren't regulated are they? As I understand it, the gold which has been loaned out is still on the CB's books as an asset.

I'm hoping however that they will force these banks to cover the loans which should be bullish for gold. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Doesn't Andy Smith work for UBS?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:37 - ID#31868)
Old Soldier
Where ever you may be. On this day I raise a mug of tequila to ya kid.

Peace cause we both understand the alternative.


Paul Gold__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:40 - ID#21484)
South African Gold Mines
Durban Roodepoort Deep, a group of marginal gold mines, is well geared to show good returns despite the current low gold price. This share ( or ADR: NASDAQ symbol DROOY ) is an excellent buy opportunity right now. Business Day, a daily newspaper, reports as folows on Thursday 29 January:

Durban Roodepoort Deep edges
closer to break-even

David McKay

DURBAN Roodepoort Deep edged closer to an operating breakeven in the
December quarter as the group's three mines lowered aggregate costs and
benefited from a hedging programme.

The group's mines received, on average, nearly R2 000 more for every
kilogram of gold it produced. The aggregate price received was R50 216/kg.
A hedge had been set up with exposure to upside potential, the company said.

It was a departure for Durban Roodepoort Deep, which is traditionally
unhedged, preferring instead possible gains on the spot gold price. However, SBC Warburg's John Reade said the hedge was a temporary measure to cushion the group while it restructured.

As part of restructuring, another 295 miners will be retrenched from the group in the March quarter at a cost of R3m. This will bring total retrenchments, dating from the September quarter, to about 3 000 miners at a total cost of R24m. The mine will then have a staff complement of about 11 500.

Retrenchment costs in the December quarter of R12m hit the group's bottom line. This, when combined with other costs, kept Durban Roodepoort Deep firmly in the red. It posted a taxed loss of R16m for the quarter. ( September: R23,9m loss ) . After capex, the group's loss was R26m ( R48m loss ) .

Chairman Roger Kebble said yesterday aggregate gold production had increased and could be lifted further in the March quarter as the group had uncovered a gold theft syndicate at the Doornfontein and Blyvooruitzicht gold plant.

The syndicate had been stealing about 50kg-100kg of gold a month - this was production which would now appear on the group's income statement in subsequent quarters.

About 95 people who were identified in the syndicate had been dismissed, but there was no certainty all the suspects had been rounded up, Kebble said.

Looking to the future, Durban Roodepoort Deep was attempting to raise finance to complete construction of an elution refinery to process gold. About R27m had been spent on the refinery already with a further R11m capex required, Kebble said.

The refinery would have a design capacity for eight tons of gold a quarter but its initial output would be three tons of gold a quarter.

Two new shafts costing between R2bn and R3bn were being considered as part of the SouthWits project where inferred resources of 16-million ounces had been estimated. These resources were being firmed up while the go-ahead for a project would depend heavily on a better gold price, Kebble said.

John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:43 - ID#24135)
You are a badass blues brother
For tolerant1
You are a true Badass tolerant1 no doubt about that and
it takes one to know one. In fact ah gotta house on the
roadside made outta rattlesnake hide an a little bitty
chimney up on top made outta human skulls. Also I got
a lousy attitude you could describe it as a tombstone
hand and a graveyard mind - ahm jes 22 ( in my dreams )
an ah don mine dyin.
Thats a outstanding plan, you think sheherezade two
will go for it??

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:43 - ID#365190)
@tolerant - the truth
"Truth, in the matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived."
Oscar Wilde ( 1854-1900 )

"Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense."
Mark Twain ( 1835-1910 )

and ...
"The road to truth is long, and lined the entire way with annoying bastards"
Alexander Jablokov "The Place of No Shadows"

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:44 - ID#93232)
I must tell you this....
There is nothing to be learned from the spaces between the strings....knowledge can only be obtained by touching the strings.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:47 - ID#333131)
Jacques Santer, EU to have equal politcal/economic clout with US. Euro to challenge dollar.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:49 - ID#317193)
Neophyte-Gold loan Default
Thank you for your thoughts. If European CB's need to have their gold in place for the EU paper,as in Italy being told it could not dispose of it's gold, maybe defaults mean something. Lease rates up. No talk of CB gold sales. Maybe leasing is being shut off from European CB's. I don't know,I'm just a newbie who has an opinion that something is going to blow the financial markets sky high. Debt on debt does not pay a debt-it creates a bubble. BUBBLES BURST!!!!! Tom

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:49 - ID#31868)
I say hold your tongue my valiant friend. Speak not of Persia in this way. This is a thing from the past, the debts must be repaid, at least that is how the people there think because they know no other way.

Sharpen not your knife for the wrong enemy.

Sit with me at the fire of counsel. Learn from the elders. Be not so kind that you would give your life to a diseased cause.

Think, you are quite good at it. There are times when I stand in awe of the smoke from your tent.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 11:55 - ID#31868)
John Disney_A
RE: will they go for it. I will make them a deal the guineas and their rottted horses heads will never forget.

Prisoners are a liability to the sensitivities of the weak among us.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:00 - ID#206358)
Special report from cnn about od..

(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:02 - ID#31868)
Jablokov - a good bit there, gulp, cheers to ya, tequila of course.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:13 - ID#390249)
Gold Loans
TYOUNG - I agree, I think something will blow the markets apart and I think it'll be DERIVATIVES. I believe these basically unregulated, risky instruments will be the markets undoing - and I think AG and RR are very concerned about them.

I'm just playing devil's advocate re CB's rolling over gold loans. It'll depend on what CB's have the most exposure and what EU's criteria will be. I'm inclined to believe these loans will be covered and gold prices will go up up up.

These are just the opinions of a neophyte.

The Hatt
(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:24 - ID#294232)
There will be no war and Clinton will not resign or be impeached! This whole series of events were planned and successfully launched against the American People. Think about it AG needed to take the US Dollar lower and I am of the opinion it was rising out of control! Wake up everyone your almighty Government is again playing with your heads and treating you all like a bunch of mushrooms. Do you really believe that Clinton at any time is capable of telling the truth? The power brokers of the world have control of the chess board and we are merely pawns! The key here is we are trying to figure out what direction the power brokers will go with gold! Discussing bombs and timeframes for attack is a waste of time! THERE WILL BE NO WAR NOR WILL CLINTON LEAVE OFFICE!!!!!!!!!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:25 - ID#374211)
@ Dizzy Muhamed's foolish figures....What Damage Control....
You have been caught again, with your pants down and your camel's
head around your groin, yeehh! ..Boy that desert sum can be merciless...
Let me see if I can some up 4 items about Drooy and Harmony
where you have changed the numbers by a factor10 times, for all to see.
You told us 3 days ago that Drooy had 115 Million ounces, it was going
to $250 with a Gold price of 450 while ABX had 51 Million ounces and
would only go up to 40. ( in your dreams ) You were still insisting on these reserve figures up to your 2:20 post today,until I as usual corrected your disneyland figures. Now in your 8:50 post you are admitting to all that in fact Drooy really only has 15 Million oz according to the Mining Journal,
GEEE! What happened to the other 100 MILLION OUCES? somebody
steal them? Now you are asking this forum to believe that Drooy will
go up to first $11 then $20 and that ABX will stay at 20. You are one
sick camel, you've been out in that desert sun far too long....
As far as the number of shares outstanding why don't you read their
quaterly report on this url and learn something about a stock before you
recommend it, oh ya you said in your 2:50 post you don't recommend stocks ya right I sai in my post Drooy has almost 51 Million shares
out with Millions more in options and millions for $. I stand by my accurate figures right from SA.

BTW did you all know that a "promotion" was underway this past month
on these two so that Rangold could sell it's millions of shares of Drooy
and Harmony at a great LOSS! and GEEE those brainless lackees
that follow you around here and defend your numbers blindly, boy you
have them right where you want them eh! a little shmooz, a little comedy?
but absolutely no acurate information or figures, none!
Why don't you explain to the forum about the very DEEP 14,000 feet DEEP deposits of drooy, and the true cost per oz if they can ever get them out without seismic activity burying all the miners alive..

I am getting bored debunking this desert bedwetter er I mean bedouin's
"facts" it is no longer fun but actually sad to see such poor information
and the very poor attempts to correct, what amounts to nothing short of
misinformation ,on what I consider a great Gold discussion forum.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:26 - ID#31868)
We are nothing more than the handshake of the child that believes in the hand shaken, it takes two.


(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:30 - ID#31868)
TDZADEAK or what the F_ck
You don't like bacon huh. Your brain will not be tilled into the fertilizer which might become thought. Open you hand instead and take a deep mouthful of your own.

The perfect abortion, self inflicted.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:32 - ID#432148)
Gold, and poor Mexico... poor South Korea... poor Indonesia...poor Russia
poor Peru...poor Zambia...two hundred million Indonesian property owners impoverished by the System. Inflation and suffering of the common people above our Western imaginations. All these countries mainly dependent upon commodity prices for their survival. Down with the dollar! Up with gold!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:40 - ID#31868)
Gold represents fairplay, nothing more, nothing less.


(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:43 - ID#93232)
@ whatever God that will listen to my humble submission...
Thank you today, as every day, for the men and women that till the soils and deliver us the foods for our nutrition. Someday soon, may these farmers receive all the riches and praise they deserve for their endless toil.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:49 - ID#31868)
And from your comment I might believe that all frogs should have magnets in their mittens.


(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:52 - ID#316409)
Evolution vs. creation of a Goldbug
Small subtle changes, a Stockophile continually evolving and even embracing Gold, are more than possible, and in fact likely, given enough world views and personality types.

However, when it comes to a system as complex as say the DESIGN of the human eye, which requires the harmonious and spectacular operation of many diverse and amazing components, none of which would be an advantage for a species by itself, especially if considered in small evoloving increments, I must say the theory of evolution seems completely preposterous as a means of specie creation.

When you move beyond the eye to the DNA molecule, then you're REALLY talking about something amazing. And these are but 2 examples of thousands that could be cited. Evolution has plenty of proof as a means for species to adapt, but as a means for creation, the proof is lacking entirely. Even the fossil record requires incredibly tortured reasoning and analysis to try and force the "links" that are supposedly there, in the evolution of man from one celled animal.

For me, a belief in evolution, takes far more faith than a belief in creationism. Just weighing in....since there's little but fightin going on here today! ( But..the new and more temperate LGB is not spoiling for a fight, in fact a religious renewal/awakening is the very reason you have seen a much more tempered line of rhetoric from this corner in the past few weeks.....evidence of God's influence? )

(Sun Feb 01 1998 12:59 - ID#26669)
John Disney:
"Watch out for stobor." B.P. Matson

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:07 - ID#344308)



the mind is what is constantly evolving.........the body is only
the vehicle.......the passenger has the option to look in the
mirror, or out the window........OR both.......

the connectivity of the arabs lends it-self to a whole bunch of
words....and problems...i'll give it a shot........

damned sorry about the typo's......good reason for 'em.....!; )


(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:19 - ID#317193)
AG is no fool and knows the value of gold backed currency. His job, however, is now to keep the debt bubble from bursting with a US$ that is not backed by gold and to do so while the printing presses have been cranking full speed all of 1996-97. 18 BILLION US$ ( of debt ) ,just our share, for SE Asia,which AG endorses, just makes it more difficult to contol the bubble. This does not make any sense. Perhaps AG is stringing things out in hopes of a solution since there is none in sight now. The risk seems to be that the bubble will burst before he finds a solution. Maybe AG already knows the answer-you can only get currency backed by gold AFTER the bubble burst. Perhaps AG warned all of us last year. IRRATIONAL EXUBERANCE!!! I think AG plans to be around to pick up the pieces when he is really needed. Just a guess. IMHO Tom

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:20 - ID#390249)
Andy Smith recommends miners buy put options
He obviously is trying to get gold price down so that UBS can cover their gold loans at lower prices per copy of Reuters article on gold I can't post. His agenda is so obvious.

The article also mentions a discussion at DAVOS on 'The future of gold' on Friday and 'Euro's relationship with the dollar' on Saturday. Does anyone have any info on the outcome of these dicussions?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:21 - ID#238295)
Middle East and gold
WE did not use nuclear weapons in Vietnam when tens of thousands of our troops wwere being killed. The fact that we now are threatening to use them against a much weaker foe shows how far our leadership has degenerated. Once the nuclear threshold is crossed, profound consequences will ensue -- most of them bearish for the US, its alliances, and the dollar.

With Clinton's friends ( masters? ) still in control of the financial markets you can rest assured that stocks will rally and gold will reamin dead in the immediate aftermath of a US attack on Iraq. But the longer-term repercussions will very negative for US financial assets and very positive for gold even if nuclear weapons are not used. If nukes are used, the LONG-TERM bullish impact on gold will be staggering.

Use the nukes Billy boy and get the gold skyrocket underway!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:29 - ID#238295)
Andy Smith

You may be new to this thread, but you have a sophisticated understanding of Andy Smith's agenda. As I said earlier he is an anti-gold propagandist -- nothing more and nothing less. Sounds like his employer and clients are starting to sweat over their huge short positions.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:31 - ID#280222)
to: NOTSOMUCHANEOPHYTE: that IS the question of note to all goldbugs everywhere......WILL THE CB'S ROLL OVER THOSE GOLD LOANS! until...?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:33 - ID#317193)
No info on these meetings that I know of and I doubt we will ever get the truth anyway.I think your right, ANDY, is trying anything right now. Must be a real problem. USB is already being merged with it's smaller ( maybe not now ) competitor. Kind of tells you something. How much gold is GONE from the leasing?? Don't know but must be one hell of a problem. USB is not ( was not ) one of your small local banks. This is getting intersting. Tom

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:36 - ID#431263)
Likin' the NEW LGB2
Herr LGB2--

Am likin' your reasoned contribution to the creation/evolution debate. Your viewpoint is not only mine but the viewpoint of an increasing number of astrophysicists, biologists, anthropologists and honest seekers of the truth! Welcome to the oasis of divine wisdom in the middle of the desert of specie evolutionary folly!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:36 - ID#93232)
...for many.....
John Wayne will never die. Precursing deaths of this nature, is of no use.

LGB, reformed Stockophile for the good. Away to seek counsel from the spark of life.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:40 - ID#257148)
It is now February in the soft underbelly of this sweet gold woirld---


your 08:56. Once you get started, it is really quite easy to be rude, particularly towards some people who seem to demand it. I am happy to offer you my consulting services at my usual rates. First lesson is free:

excellent thought-provoking posts. Thank you. I look forward to the next series?

The creator of HAL, 2001, a hundred short stories and novels, Arthur C Clarke is about to receive a knighthood. I heard that one of the royals is actually going to be in Sri Lanka in a week or so for the investiture. However, besides the ongoing civil conflicts that have dogged this beautiful island for generations. There is now an unhappy story that he has admitted to paedophilia and has offered cultural justifications for his preferences. Paedophilia is not illegal in Sri Lanka, apparently and according to the radio report I listened to it is part of the sexual practices of the local culture. No matter what our individual reactions are to this news, it is well to remember that moral judgements are rarely cut and dried.

My pleasure, my prickly friend!

Shoulda listened to me about the froot loop when it first appeared. Like I said, living proof that travel will not broaden all minds. Gotta have something to work with.

Any other comments on E-Wave Count in different currencies I posted a couple of days ago? TIA

Does that mean I don't have to pay a fine?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:43 - ID#93232)
Remember when they raided.....
the gold vault of the Swiss bank and there was nothing there....gone gold to be greatly missed for a long time....many more heads to roll.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:44 - ID#57232)
Nuclear Threshold
Old Gold: We lose credibility just by talking about possible escalation to the use of nuclear weapons in Iraq. Saddam will do what he wishes regardless.

Our whole approach has been to use nuclear weapons in a defensive role only -- with the exception of WWII. By using nuclear weapons in an offensive role against Iraq, we only encourage more use of nuclear weapons in the world, and we invite nuclear terrorism on our own soil! Did Russia use nuclear weapons on Chechnia? In Afganistan?

Is this the way we show the rest of the world how to settle differences between nations? Is this our high moral example? Did Saddam threaten to use Nuclear weapons?

This is why we need a strong conventional military. Otherwise, we risk escalation to WWIII unnecessarily. Do you think the Norwegians still are interested in giving BC the Nobel Peace prize after this? He is clearly not interested.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:45 - ID#31868)
Dead Poet's Society

Watch listen and learn!!!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:46 - ID#227238)
@ the nuke em till they glow.
Old Gold: Ouch! If nukes be the course, gold will do us little good, I fear. Having set the precedent, the world will become a might unruly. A great deal of unselective population reduction will likely set in. ..... Sen. Moynahan is evidently among those beating the war drum. " ..... our's is not to reason why .......".

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:51 - ID#238295)
nuclear weapons

HATT: What happened to that gold short squeeze that was supposed to take place Friday?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:52 - ID#431263)
Clinton a sick man
Don't know if anyone here saw John Mclaughlin's One on One last night on PBS, but if you did you saw one of the most remarkable psychoanalytic personality disorder dissections ever broadcast. After watchin John's two psychoanalystic guests psychoanalyze the President and his obsession with sex and the seduction of the female, it is obvious to this cheesehead that BC is a sick man who needs professional help to overcome his need to seduce everything and everyone into liking him as he apparantly does not! The two guests were in agreement on almost every point and both agreed that BC needs from 1-3 years of professional pyschological care to understand, accept and overcome his compulsion! The one point on which there was a small measure of disagreement was whether he should leave office to receive this needed help or receive help while staying in office. From what I heard, I am a firm believer in the former! Perhaps we should feel sympathy for this sick man rather than scorn and demand that he get the professional help he needs ASAP!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:54 - ID#162309)
You neo-creationists should really go back and take a look at the Dawkins rebuttal to the Alabama insert ( posted last night ) before you start disparaging the driving force of biology, anthropology, neuroscience and linguistics over the past 100 years -- the theory of evolution. Read especially the part showing that the slightest selection pressure can produce incredible evolutionary effects in a timescale that is instantaneous, on a geologic basis. The argument ( LGB2 ) that parts of us, i.e. sensory organs like our hearing or visual organs, are so ingenious by their "design" that they could have only been made by a "maker" is an old and tired one -- Darwin himself handily disposed of that in the last century.

It is sad to see that a group that is so illuminated when it comes to economics and finance can be so ignorant of modern biological science. I don't understand why older people have to cling to a supreme being in order to make sense of their world.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:58 - ID#257148)
If nukes are the answer the question must be foolish...

Old Gold
"If nukes are used, the LONG-TERM bullish impact on gold will be staggering.

Use the nukes Billy boy and get the gold skyrocket underway!"
May be the saddest comment I have ever read on kitco.

Yesterday I asked you for your take of the 3 pillars of a bull market for gold, perhaps you did not see the post. May I trouble you to consider posting on this? TIA

(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:59 - ID#344308)

here is some OLD food for thought-----

written about 500 years ago.......

who could this person be referring to?

those who plan a subversive scheme..
in the reign of un-equal power and invincibility..
through fraud shall advertise..
while their leader is reading the Bible at his table..

great credit, of gold, of silver in abundance..
shall blind his honor through sexual desire..
shall be struck with his adulterous offenses..
who shall obtain a great dis-honor..

one dubious president shall not reign long..
the majority of the population shall give him support..
but capitol hill shall not give high marks of approval..
such a great chair shall be up-held from decay..

here is the url..........nostradamus.....

he wrote of silly-billy's sexual escapades 500 yrs ago.....

clinton will not last according to ancient least
they got every-thing else right.......right? who says klinton is
going to survive this?

my bets......are against him and his gold selling ilk......

study the past to know the future.........and pre-cognizance is
a reality.......i know....because i knew in advance i was going
to write that sentence fragment about pre-cognizance....see how easy it is...

take the first step..............cherokee!;---trying-to-stand---.......

Old Soldier
(Sun Feb 01 1998 13:59 - ID#185274)
Why no nucs in VN and now a possibility
OLD GOLD 13:21 Number of U.S. troops killed had little bearing on our decision not to use nuclear weapons in Vietnam. The only appropriate targets for nuclear weapons were in North Vietnam. Presidents Johnson and Nixon only periodically mustered the political courage to use conventional bombs against the North in any significant way.

President Kennedy ( Eisenhower if you are a purist ) got us into that war on the mistaken assumption that it was a small guerrilla war that we could win using small highly trained forces. As the war escalated, no president was willing to make a decisive commitment to winning it. Each kept badly underestimating North Vietnamese will and hoping that gradual escalation would work. All gradual escalation ever did was provide the North Vietnamese with the opportunity to build up to counter our escalation. The parallel with the current financial situation in the far east is interesting. We come with escalating numbers of Band-Aids and seem perplexed at why the hemorrhaging continues.

In Vietnam, no important U.S. interests were threatened and our major threat was the Soviet Union. We had little focus on Vietnam and major distractions. Our military was big and strong enough to provide Presidents with what were in hindsight probably more options than were truly useful.

The current situation is vastly different than in Vietnam. We have no world-class enemy constraining our options. Because President Clinton has eviscerated our Armed Forces, he has left himself with a sorry set of options.
1. Do nothing.
2. Bluff conventionally.
3. Attack conventionally from the air and sea.
4. Bluff nuclear.
5. Attack nuclear.

Clinton has eliminated the ground option that was open to President Bush. Saddam knows this and will pursue that advantage. This is far more dangerous than the situation in Gulf War I precisely because Clinton has so weakened our Armed Forces.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:03 - ID#227238)
Aaah, sweet mystery of life, at last I've found thee.
Brothers and sisters, the hallelujah train departs from track 666. Be on it or be square.

The meaning of life is, apparently, a simple matter of choosing from among the imponderables available. To be admired is he who makes his choice early in life and is then free to devote himself to harmless aquisitiveness. Smugly secure in the knowledge that his unreasoned choice is vastly superior to that of his fellows.

For all too many of us, we remain doomed to never knowing and shall enter our final reward with naught but a question mark to serve as our epitaph. Such is our fate for never having considered the mystery of cosmic and everlasting dimension. ...... But then again, while here, we need never ponder the contradictions either.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:07 - ID#431263)
The rationale

Because the earth, man and the universe don't make any sense without a Supreme Being. That goes for every other of mankind's endeavors including ( dare I say it? ) gold investing!

"Two things convince me there is a God--the starry heavens above and the moral law within!"-- Immanuel Kant

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:16 - ID#318118)
I believe we are at a juncture in gold price where we are going to
see a narrow trading range between $284 and $302 until something
significant takes place.

I believe that the, soon to come, attack on Iraq has already been factored into the gold price. If Iraq has an ace up its sleeve that will escalate the situation and then we will see higher prices, but don't count on that happening.

The Clinton crisis will just go away and everything will smooth out. I don't see anything changing that situation.

The SE Asia crisis will remain almost status quo for at least the next three months. The G7 cannot afford to have the situation become worse until the now anxious citizens world wide have put it in the back of their minds. After everything has been taken for granted with the situation then a new crisis will come to the surface.

All the above is based on the fact that we live in a very controlled environment and that control will not slip out of the grasp of the world leaders. I have come to the conclusion that most people contributing to this forum have a much different outlook and expect the worst at any time. Comments are welcome!

Barb Hughes
(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:16 - ID#20783)

Proposed Amendments to Circuit-Breaker Rules by the New York Stock Exchange



The existing circuit-breaker rules of the NYSE were to expire on January 31, 1998. On November 21, 1997, a meeting took place among SEC and Commission staff and officials of the U.S. financial exchanges at which there was an informal consensus among the exchanges for increasing the circuit-breaker levels. On January 8, 1998, the NYSE formally submitted to the SEC a request for an extension, until April 30, 1998, of the current circuit-breaker rules with only minor modification. That modification relates to the manner in which trading halts would occur beginning at 2:00 p.m. on a trading day. The NYSE did not consult with the futures exchanges concerning this modification prior to proposing it. The NYSE intends to implement this modification effective February 2, 1998. In order to coordinate with the NYSE, the futures exchanges have submitted to us comparable proposed rule changes, which were approved on January 27, 1998.

As recently as this week, the exchanges reached a preliminary consensus to increase the circuit-breaker levels to 10 percent and 20 percent of the Dow Index. The numerical circuit-breaker levels would be revised to reflect such percentages of the Dow Index in January and July of each year. The exchanges also have been discussing changes to the timing and duration of the trading halts. The Commission understands that the exchanges may seek to implement the additional changes effective May 1, 1998, through formal rule submissions to their respective regulator for approval.

For complete published transcription ie..not reporters view see below:

Take care...Barb

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:23 - ID#317193)
1929-1973-1987- Nikkei 1990-1997.Control does not always exist. The buubble sometimes BURST!!! Tom

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:28 - ID#431263)
Augur's current forecsat
Haven't seen anyone comment on Augur's Xau Elliot Wave Analysis recently so thought I'd check it out! He's looking for a run up to 90, possibly 112-120 on this leg before a new leg down which should take us back to the recent lows before we begin a wave three advance back to the old highs or higher! Cycles in gold and silver all pointing higher till April/May when we are likely to have a major correction. If we can't break 82 on the upside soon, then we MAY have to go all the way back to 35!!! So be careful out there! As for me, I just transferred another $25,000 from my 403b account into Benham gold equity fund! Auf wiedersehen!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:30 - ID#162309)
Federal Reserve
Many conspiracy theories hinge on the assertion that the Federal Reserve is a huge scam on the American people. However, I have read in Benjamin Anderson's "Economics and the Public Welfare" that by law the Fed has to give all profits back to the Treasury. Therefore, the private owners of the Fed do not stand to gain from this, if they obey the law. They would gain indirectly by knowing changes in monetary policy ahead of time and profiting from this, but they would not gain from the printing of money itself.


(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:32 - ID#227238)
Golden Cheesy: "Sense" is but a mortal construct. A finite construct, incapable of conceiving anything without beginning or end. Ergo the requirement for a Starting Force. To be followed by a Guiding Force. Which in turn, leads one, logically to a Caring Force. ....... and before long, whole books are written upon the subject. With whole bodies of genuine believers set against each other. ...... Read General's offering on Thurs. AM. While exorting a brother to return to the "true faith"; by slamming other faiths in the process, the General could not help but provide ample reason for a speedier departure. ...... and so it goes.

bernatz du ventadorm
(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:36 - ID#212132)
Oldman - Which way is gold going?
( A reminder to stay away from the
"$350 is the bottom kid" recently
transmogrified into the $277.25
isn't the bottom kid" )

bernatz du ventadorm
(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:38 - ID#212132)
Oldman - Which way is gold going?
( A reminder to watch out for the
"$350 is the bottom" kid, recently
recast in the role of the "$277.25
isn't the bottom" kid )

bernatz du ventadorm
(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:39 - ID#212132)
Oldman - Which way is gold going?
( A reminder to stay clear of the
"I fart on black people" kid,
recently reworked into the
"I fart on all non-white people"
kid )

bernatz du ventadorm
(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:41 - ID#212132)
Oldman, which way is gold going?
( Straight up into your lily-white ass,
one would imagine )

bernatz du ventadorm
(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:42 - ID#212132)
Oldman, which way is gold going?
Best be nice to me, cause I am one
bad-ass mf, and you don't want me
to get that promotion that you so
richly deserve, that of the
so I just parrot "Buy Gold"

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:42 - ID#42365)
bernatsdaf whatever ur name is.
purdy funny.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:42 - ID#227238)
Organ: Why indeed. Why do countless non profit organizations mutate into new areas of concern after their original purpose has been achieved? Why do non profit hospitals continue in a competitive environment when there are too many hospitals? Why does the original CARE organization now concern itself with land mines? ...... Mostly, I think, because they all provide cushy jobs at great salaries for those who can maintain the con.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:44 - ID#238422)
Old Soldier
Iraq is the "perfect enemy" for the U.S., no
doubt about it. For this reason I believe
that use of nukes against Iraq is out of the
question.The only case what this can happen
is if Iraq starts total chemical war against
Israel or american troops. Then Israel itself
will probably hit Iraq by a couple of nukes...

What do think?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:45 - ID#431263)

Time to get #212132 off the air! Such a lowlife as this character make me wonder if we're all lost in an evolutionary time-warp!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:46 - ID#238422)
Old Soldier
Sorry for typo, I mean:

What do you think?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:46 - ID#318118)
I don't disagree that these things happen. I just don't think we are near the point where it will happen again soon ( meaning in the next three months ) The probability is high that late summer to early fall of 98 could be the next major dump for man kind. I do realize that alot of people in SE Asia think they are already there but there is much worse to come.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:48 - ID#26793)
I am not sure I understand your Korean question and I am not sure that I have a position of my own on Korea. I am creating it as I type!. If North Korea can not feed its own how can it invade? It needs help from China to pull it off. China does not want to contribute to an attack at this point but might respond if North Korea were attacked.

The United States is no longer a rich nation. It has squandered its treasure in fighting ( not yet winning ) the Cold War. We have been at war since 1939 when we started helping the British. I saw a convincing article that shows the U.S. government, corporations and individuals, on balance, have a negative net worth. If we had to pass the hat for Desert Storm we must admit we are broke.

Like any impoverished family the U.S. must now restore itself to strength through hard work and by adopting a standard of living that is within its means. Korea must do the same as must all the other nations at risk. The acknowledgement of our true financial situation will not be easy for many in Congress who are fond of saying "we are the strongest nation on earth" . It is no longer true. Switzerland is probably the strongest nation if nuclear bombs don't count.

We are at the same point in history as England in 1931. The days of empire were over but the reality of that fact had not sunk in to the ruling generation. Now they know it. We will learn soon. England is a better country for it now. It will be the same for us. England did not turn isolationist. There is no need for us to take that route.

Perhaps the advances in communications via TV, the Internet etc is creating a better community of nations and there will be no need for any nation to attempt to dominate the world. We will all be better off if that could happen.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 14:58 - ID#318118)
@ oris: your 14:14 msg
BINGO!!!! That is exactly who is going to be the first to pull the NUKE trigger and start the next BIG one. It won't be long now either i.e. within the next couple of years. I don't think gold will save any of us when it happens!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:00 - ID#20748)
Old Soldier and tsclaw
Please remember,
1. Iran, Russia, China and India, all have geopolitical interest in Iraq and not one of them supports a military strike by the US.
2. Retaliation by Iraqis will come in the shape of terrorist attacks in the U.S. It is cheap, and they have had time to prepare for it.
3. Once the patriotic and religious fires are lit, citizens are prepared to sacrifice all, gold in South Korea and lives in Iraq.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:05 - ID#93232)
@Big Bishop Earl.....
I want to join your church....but first....two questions.....Is attendance mandatory?....Do we have to tithe? gold?....your fold awaits...hallelujah! You can do all the thinkin' and all the talkin'.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:06 - ID#317193)
Mass psychology is always hard to predict. Next week or three months from now seems to be of no consequence if you have already placed your bets and are ready for things to go either way. I'm guessing like every one else. I've hedged with a percentage in gold/gold shares and taken a cash position so as to jump either way. From here on out I'll just react. BUT-my mind says AG was warning us last year!!!! Tom

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:07 - ID#227238)
Donald: A position well stated.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:09 - ID#65207)
Oris to OldGold You got it...!
You it the PIN,,,!
Iraq is the "perfect enemy" for the U.S., no
doubt about it. For this reason I believe
that use of nukes against Iraq is out of the
question.The only case what this can happen
is if Iraq starts total chemical war against
Israel or american troops. Then Israel itself
will probably hit Iraq by a couple of nukes...

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:13 - ID#227238)
Studio R: Attendance? You're there. At the Church of What's Happening Now. ...... Hadn't thought about the tithe though. How can you have a church, if you don't pass the plate? .... Yes. Yes, I think a tithe is in order. If nothing else it will reduce the attendance. Probably clear the pews completely, if the tithe is in gold.

Old Soldier
(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:14 - ID#185274)
Nucs and tyrants
Oris 14:44 You are right on! I think the use of nuclear weapons against Iraq very unlikely for a number of reasons.
1. Saddam is not stupid and will probably not push hard enough to warrant a U.S. nuclear response.
2. As others have said, the political fallout of the intemperate and ill-advised first use of nuclear weapons is unacceptable to the U.S.
3. Israel is far more likely than U.S. to make first use of nuclear weapons. Such use by them would solve the problems they were targeted on. U.S. would then take up diplomatic role of helping the world adjust to the new realities of nuclear weapons use. Nevertheless, I think even the Israelis are not likely to be so provoked. ( see #1 ) .
The best thing the U.S. can do to prevent Saddam from going too far is to make absolutely certain that he clearly understands the unacceptable consequence to him personally of going too far. The only reason we had to fight Gulf War I was that simpleton Ambassador April Gaspy basically told Saddam that his dealings with Kuwait was an Iraqi matter and not of interest to the U.S. Saddam interpreted that as a go-ahead. Similar to that other weak-kneed diplomat, Neville Chamberlain, who tried to be nice to and appease Hitler. All tyrants are bullies and cowards. The trick in dealing with them is to keep them properly cowed.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:20 - ID#57232)
Thanks for your input! Gold up if US credibility down, or Oil supply down.
Old Soldier:

I find it ironic that we now may risk nuclear war as a consequence of downsizing our military forces during peacetime. Downsizing is justifiable subsequent to the end of the cold war, but it seems that we should have been more selective, and not downsized our ability to wage a conventional war. BC considers entitlements more important that any thing else -- because of the vote factor, hence the low priority on the military. So here we are, about to fight Saddam Hussein, and our commander in chief is acting more aggressively than our former president, who is an ex-military man. And with minimal support from other countries.

All I can hope for is that our military commanders know what to do anyway.

By they way, as OldGold has said, we can safely say that anything that weakens US credibility in the eyes of the world will be bullish for gold long term, as gold is priced in dollars. Also any disruption of the Oil supply will be bullish for gold and oil. Decisive action in foreign affairs tends to be bullish for the markets, but it may be very short term if the flow of oil is hindered, or we experience a reversal of fortunes.

Do you think a flotilla of those small rocket-carrying speed boats could get close enough to the Eisenhower or the Nimitz to put a hole in one? That would be very bearish for the markets, and very bullish for gold, as well as being very bad, indeed.

Incidentally one of my friends has told me that after he retired from the Navy, he doubts there are many enlisted men like himself experienced in practical antisubmarine warfare. Lets hope those Irani missle subs don't get in the way. Also he told me that we got caught with out pants down during the Kuwait war, because we did not have many minesweepers. The only one was that fiberglass one. All the others were loaners from other countries, as I recall.

Thanks in advance for your comments!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:22 - ID#93232)
@B. B. Earl, doktor of da'infinity.........
Of the Church Of What's Happenin' Now? Could we have an occasional human ( or sub-human ) sacrifice to appease the God Of El Nino? I have a couple of candidates in mind.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:24 - ID#431263)
Herr Old Soldier--

Agree with you on most points except April Gaspy. She was told to leave Iraq with the impression the US would do nothing precisely so we could have a pretext for war! Desert Storm was a warm-up for the big one with the Russia/China/Iran coalition against the WEST! The Joint Chiefs wanted Desert Storm to test all their new weapons and so deceived Saddam into thinking we didn't care if he invaded Kuwait so we would have the necessary pretext to demonstrate to our "real enemies" just how powerful we really were!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:25 - ID#65207)

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:27 - ID#65207)

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:32 - ID#57232)
Reverse transmutation of the elements!
Earl: Saw your Nukem post. In the dark ages, many individuals tried to transmute other substances into gold because it was more valuable. But we may be talking about 'transmutation' of gold into another substance -- radioactive gold. Now that would not be attractive at all!

Of course the nonradioactive gold would become more valuable, and most paper would vanish in a puff of smoke. Lets hope we are able to resolve our differences in more rational ways.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:33 - ID#341234)
To: tsclaw
It is good to see that there are still some people who have a realistic view of the world. It is not all doom and gloom and conspiracies. As a whole, the world is pretty well controlled. There are always going to be glitches like SE Asia or Iraq, but in the big picture, these are not very significant.

I believe that gold will inch up in price more than you stated due to reduction of supply. I think we may see a rally to $400 before the end of the year, depending on the European Central Bank decision on gold holdings. A few months ago, I thought we would have to wait until 1999 to see $400.

There are a few things that I keep reading that are unrealistic:

1. Short covering is not going to cause a real rally in the gold market. It may drive the price up to around $340, but a rally solely based on short covering will be short lived. ( Pun intended )

2. There will not be a global financial crisis due to the use of paper money. Certain countries will be punished by the market for their excesses, but paper money is here to stay. The US dollar is very stable. Only inflation could weaken it, and there is no sign of that.

3. There will never ever be another gold standard. Does anyone really believe there will someday be a universal gold standard based on $8000 gold? You have a higher chance of making $100,000 in the cattle future market.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:33 - ID#431263)
US strategy in ME
Herr Old Soldier--

One further point. We wanted permanent military bases in Saudi Arabia and the only way to get the Saudi's to agree was to make them believe that after Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, the Saudi oil fields and Riyadh were next!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:38 - ID#227238)
Studio R: Human sacrifice? Hmmmmmm. I can see you're intent on fleshing this thing out. .... so to speak. Since the virgin thing is too transparent and difficult to do in these times - for a lack of suitable candidates - I suppose we can settle for your approach.

It really sounds to me like your pushing for a position in liturgy, dogma and fanciful procedures. Not bad though. The thing will need a definite WOW of some sort to capture the attention, while faithful and wallets are sent in different directions.

BTW, having engaged my scale a moment ago, I'm a little anxious over the word BIG. Just a mite sensitive. ...... far too descriptive for my taste.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:41 - ID#347457)
@Organ (neo-creationists!)
Organ, I had a privilege to meet and work with some top scientists in DNA and genetic area. It is interesting how many of them at the leading edge of biology science are turning to God for some explanation due to incredible "design" of genetic code. Just some food for thoughts.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:41 - ID#431263)
To Fred
Herr Fred--

As to point #1--RIGHT! As to point #2--DEAD WRONG! As to point #3--DEAD WRONG! Oh well, one out of three ain't TOO bad for someone who is still revising his forecasts on the fly! Who knows, as fast as things are changin' maybe you'll see $400 gold by the end of next week! Then again, what about Monday morning! : )

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:44 - ID#26669)
CEF thoughts
I wanted to thank the posters last year who introduced me to CEF. My investment in it has been a solid base for the portion of my portfolio dedicated to metals investments. I got their 1997 annual report this week and have been digesting it slowly. As of October they had 6,138,615 ounces of physical silver and 123,788 ounces of physical gold.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:45 - ID#368244)
Gold disscussion
Does anyone still talk about gold here, are do we call this the fools disscussion group now? Gold 320 end of Febuary----- Why? Because nobody wants cheap gold with the end of the world so near. If you can change it- do it, if you can not, talk about gold. It is a much brighter subject.

Charles Keeling
(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:45 - ID#344225)
I, for one, agree with your thesis.

Having female Diplomats such as April Gaspy
calling on ANY Arab State is clearly diplomatic
insanity at it's worst. And now we have a
female Secretary Of State.

Can you just imagine what the Arab leaders
think when they are forced to deal with a
female who wears no veil and shuns black robes?

Albright is in a job that she is not qualified
to handle. Of course that can be said for the
vast majority of the Clinton appointees.


(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:45 - ID#227238)
JTF: Peaceful resolution? It shares a probability on par with medieval alchemy. ..... and only advocated by the weakest of the participants. Onward. For God and country. ......ever hear a Buddhist advocate that??

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:46 - ID#224149)
OldGold ----Previous Post ---Use the nukes Billy boy and get the gold skyrocket underway!

How about Anthrax or some other World Calamity? Anything for greed A Kitco Boys ----Away to find shelter from the insane and ludicrous posters.

Old Soldier
(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:46 - ID#185274)
JTF gets A+ in Strategy of War Avoidance 101!
JTF 15:20 Your first paragraph was so profound that it literally sent chills up and down my spine! You have a perfect grasp of a principal which seems to totally elude the vast majority of westerners. The only way to avoid war is to be ready for it. The best leaders to avoid war are those who have experienced it first hand. Clintons woeful and militantly acquired lack of understanding of things military puts the U.S. and the world at great risk.

Now with paragraph 2, you really get scary. There is scarcely a powerful, capable military leader left. The giants have departed the field in quiet disgust with the rot at the top. With each passing day the ratio of warriors to boot-lickers gets worse. As I believe Oldman mentioned, dont expect a general who thinks feminist and diversity books should be at the top of his commanders required reading list to take Clinton on.

The success or failure of speed boats against capital ships is far more a function of the rules of engagement set for the U.S. Armed Forces than the skill, daring, or effectiveness of the enemy. Because he is militarily incompetent, Clinton will likely approve complicated and restrictive rules of engagement. While the commanders are worrying more about what they are allowed to do than what they should do, the enemy gains and great advantage. Indecisiveness is always deadly in war. Given a free hand, our Navy could handle the speed boats before they came over the horizon. I doubt they will be given a free hand.

Your friend is right about the mine sweepers. Even in those days some needed weapons got left out for budget reasons. Commanders never have everything they want.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:47 - ID#162148)
Saddam's IQ
old soldier: I disagree with your statement that "Saddam is not stupid". Were he smart, he would have announced the day after the Sabah gang turned tail and ran out of Kuwait that he would hold an election in Kuwait to determine Whether it would return ( it WAS part of Iraq until the Brits split it off and gave it to the Sabah family ) to Iraq. Since, as of 1990, Iraq was the best place in the middle east for the common folks, by a country mile, the results of that election would have been overwhelming. Until his $$$ was cut off by the embargo, Saddam built more schools, hospitals, roads and bridges than all the tyrannical Sheiks, Emirs, and kings of the middle east combined. Yup, If he were smart, he'da called ol' Jimmy Carter and said, "Jimmy, I want you to come over here and hold an election and see if the people of Kuwait want to live like the people in Iraq live, or if they want to go back to being serfs of the Sabah family." No, he aint smart.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:49 - ID#57232)
It probably is not as bad as we say -- but we do have a problem in ME
Fred: Interesting comment. You are right that we may have overstated our cases. Our president has a reputation of making threatening moves, and then quickly backing down. As it turns out, that may be the right approach with Saddam, as that is the way he operates, too. What worries me more is that the arab nations in the ME, as well as Israel, are unable to continue the peace process. If you scan the net, you will see that the risk of war in the ME is inexoribly increasing. That is not gloom and doom -- that is reality. Part of the problem is that we do not have statesmen this time to get the recalcitrant parties back to the negotiation table.

And -- the last time the Israelis lined up for gas masks was years ago.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:51 - ID#93232)
@M.B. Earl, ddi (medium bishop).....
Brother James Brown has agreed to provide the ecclesiastical WOW! to cause the separation of the church ( our lambs ) from the state ( their dough ) . I think farfel knows where some virgins are...or were.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:54 - ID#302251)

Please do not miss my post this morning:


(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:57 - ID#302251)

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:58 - ID#57232)
Heading home again!
Old Soldier: You have explained what I had trouble understanding. How could a little missle equipped speed boat tie up two US destroyers -- even if they were in shallow waters between Iran and Iraq? The answer as you put it is very simple! The bureacrats limit the rules of engagement. Hence our carriers are at risk. An experienced commander would not risk the carriers if approached by these boats anyway -- but an inexperienced one might wait one second too long to pull the trigger.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:58 - ID#341234)
How long will it take for this global financial meltdown to happen? I will admit that eventually every currency currently in existance will be worthless. New currencies will take their place. Maybe even totally electrionic money. But gold? That is too old fashion. That is like saying you expect automobiles to dissapear, which will eventually be true. But they will not be replaced by horses.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 15:59 - ID#333131)
From Davos: China will not devalue.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:00 - ID#269191)
You are right that the seignorage profits go to the Treasury. However,
the banks ( who technically own the Fed ) benefit from the Fed's money creating activites through the bank's loan activites. Because we have the
Fed and fractional reserve banking, the commercial banks are able to expand credit many times beyond the pool of real savings. In a financial
system with honest money and banking, banks would only be able to extend
credit to the extent of the real savings of the people. The only way to
assure such a system is to restore the full gold standard with 100%
banking ( banks would be legally required to maintain a 100% gold reserve
behind all banknotes and checkbook money ) .

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:00 - ID#359316)
Gold up in $ if Iraq up in smoke
A series of wargame exercises were held, the largest being Global 95, at the US Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island, in 1995. Scores of high-ranking officials from the Pentagon, the State Department and the intelligence community rle-played a crisis in the Gulf involving the US and Iraq. To their dismay, it escalated out of control, with Iraq using biological weapons in the Gulf and fostering terrorist attacks in US cities. The exercise ended with the US using nuclear weapons against Iraq.
Source: The Observer, 1 February 1998, Britain.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:00 - ID#347457)
@Isure on Gold Discussion
Isure: Your question -Does anyone still talk about gold here, are do we all this the fools discussion group now? Is not so difficult to answer. Market is very complex system and to understand it ( even only to some degree ) requires understanding of many, seemingly unrelated, events. If you focus strictly on some aspects ( e.g. technical analysis, fundamentals, etc. ) you will miss because markets always do some unpredictable moves which are usually triggered by some "unrelated event" which made the players to make their move.

I doubt that I will ever understand it, however, I may at least try even if it looks like listening to a bunch of fools ;- )

bernatz du ventadorm
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:01 - ID#212132)
Yeah, get rid of that 312132
Or whatever the hell his ID was.
Nuke him.
He's not white.
He's not right.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:03 - ID#347457)
@Ziva and Please do not miss my post this morning
Ziva, I think that many noticed your post, however, it looks like you missed responses going your way ;- ) !

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:05 - ID#410194)
The common sense
@sclaw......14:16 post

@Fred.......15:33 post

@Poorbors...15:46 post

Great realistic views, congratulation guys.

bernatz du ventadorm
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:05 - ID#212132)
Oldman, the only thing women are good for
Are being the passive recepticles of
your giant testicles.

And the only thing Ne-groes are good pointing out how lousy you are
at hiding your identity, and how even
lousier you are at calling the bottom
in gold.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:07 - ID#57232)
How did you do that? Signing off!
Earl: How did you know I was going to post about the need for peaceful resolution of our problems before I made the post? And -- you are the one who says you don't do well with poetry? What other talents do you have beside precognition?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:07 - ID#410194)
The emotional exuberance
Gold didn't go to 350 by the end of the week.

Date: Sun Jan 25 1998 17:10
cherokee__A ( @-----the-fin-who-shares-------- ) ID#344308:

share- fin- - -

my 'tickets' to the super- bowl- - - - - - - gold calls- -
the gold options are bought as they become available
and the current ones expire....the strikes range
from 400 to 340.....october400 calls were $30. last
week....these will fit quite nicely with the others...
not a portfolio mind you, just my contribution to the
fiat currencies and their taskmasters......1300 oz currently....
more on high can it go? 2000oz is my goal..
this month...time to up the is only paper......
and the flame- thrower loves paper......

feel like hanging on the to 350+...this week..
450+ before the end of feb......

chryssalis of gold.......from ankle- biter to star- rider.....and the
smoke- signal- mobile will ride shot- gun........ALLABOARD!

!;- - - share- fin- - - - your- seat- on- the- ssm- awaits- - - next- to- donald_a's

bernatz du ventadorm
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:08 - ID#212132)
Oh a black man came onto Kitco one day
And called the direction of gold
He was always right, he was never wrong
So for that he was kicked off of Kitco

But he kept coming back
Cuz he wanted to help the ignorant fools
From losing all of their money
But it makes no difference
They are so fukin smart
They have white power and
their white mommies and daddies
and their white lawyers to bail
them out when they declare

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:08 - ID#162148)
ziva: His looks tell me little. His actions speak volumes. He had what he wanted, and all it took to keep it was one call for Jimmy Carter to come and hold an election. Instead he hunkered down and subjected his forces to the greatest air onslaught in history. Go figure.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:09 - ID#347457)
@bernatz du ventadorm
Please spare me your comments alla - He's not white. He's not right.

So now we have a racial problems on this forum?! I don't know about the rest of you but I am not able to determine a color of fingers touching a poster's keyboard!

John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:10 - ID#24135)
See a shrink
For Tazdork
Up your dwarf @ss.
I will waste no more time with an such an irritating
and senile misfit. "Its deja vu all over again" - why dont
you say it again ?? Plague someone else you dumb @ss.
And you forgot to clean my BOOTS, sod.

bernatz du ventadorm
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:10 - ID#212132)
Oh I know now who "Oldman" is
And he is no Todd Oldham.

One of his white friends told
on him, and soon he'll have
a lot of attention.

( P.S. I also know about his "son" )

Old Soldier
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:10 - ID#185274)
Conspiracies, tollerance for reality and stupd Saddam
Golden Cheesehead 15:24, 15:33 Sorry, in nearly 30 years of intense observation of our military from the inside and usually in possession of the highest security clearances, did I ever observe or hear credible evidence of such diabolical conspiracies good or bad. Popular ideas but in my opinion with no basis in fact.

Charles Keeling 15:45 Yes. The fundamental cause is the persistent problem many Americans have distinguishing between what they want and harsh reality. So it is also with gold. Most Americans will be shocked into stunned disbelief when they discover they have little of real value in their possession once the financial tsunami hits..

Oldman 15:47 ROFLOL!!! You win on Saddams stupidity. Well maybe not. Yes, he could have been a lot more clever than he was but still, he wasnt stupid enough to get himself squashed like the maggot he is. I know an even better strategy he could have used against us. It is just too good and dangerous to reveal.

bernatz du ventadorm
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:12 - ID#212132)
Miro, weren't you the one who gave us this sob story about
bailing out on gold?

Why didn't you leave like you promised?

Answer: Cuz it was a white man's promise.

I don't doubt that you can't see it,
cuz you bailed out near the low.


(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:13 - ID#341234)
War in the Middle East is always possible, but not likely. No one really has anything to gain by it. MAD still applies also. If Iraq launched any kind of chemical attack on Israel, Sadam would not have a country left to rule.

Terrorism is a possibility that could cause hysteria, but probably would not affect most peoples lives. What exactly is Anthrax anyway? Is there a vacine? How is it spread? The only thing I know about Anthrax is that they used to be a hard rock group.

Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:15 - ID#432214)
Craig Corcoran & Martin Armstrong's forcast for GOLD from the VCR 1998 World Outlook Conference.
I Went to Vancouver Conference and here are the prognostications:

1 ) Craig Corcoran - Futures Hotline/Mutual Fund Timer, Jacksonville Florida ( 904 ) 693-0355.

His comments on Gold as follows: In uptrend for 1998, Forecasting a $100 rally from low, Is this a bear market rally or the start of a new bull market? Only time will tell.

Silver - Expensive relative to gold on a historical basis, however he states that could see silver go to $7.25 in 1998.

Gold Shares - Gold shares to see a low in first week of Feb then rally. Target high for the XAU is 109. Forecasts most gold shares to double from there lows.

Dow - Overvalued - forecasts either a rally into summer then a crash or the Dow to start the biggest Bear Market in history from this point. On a historical basis the most over-valued market in history. Price to book/ Price to Div / P/E etc..

Martin Armstrong - Princeton Economics International

Gold - The Low for Gold $277 may be in place, If gold can break 317 on a weekly basis there is a 50/50 chance that 277 was the low. If gold cannot break through 317 then a re-test of the 277 low is possible in the June/July period.

1998 should be the low in gold, he is forecasting that in the next 3-5 years gold should re-test the 1980 highs.

Additional Notes - Central Bank selling is almost finished, possible one more large seller to be announced. The individual investor is buying gold on a world wide basis with strong buying out of Japan. On a negative note he stated that the IMF is out of money and if Russia defaults ( Russia cannot make the interest payments on the outstanding loans ) the IMF may have to sell its gold supplies to keep things afloat, unless additional funding can be sourced.

Silver - Armstrong is of the opinion that the entire metals markets except gold is presently being manipulated by one large hedge fund which he did not name. He is negative on silver and advises everyone to stay out of the market unless you are playing options where you know the downside risk. He stated that 6.40 or 6.80 would be good exit points. He stated that Silver demand in India is decreasing due to the Asia crisis. He stated that the volatility is causing destruction to all the metals markets and this group is causing the liquidity of the market to vanish. He states that this hedge fund is attempting to control all the metals markets and is causing metal dealers to go under. He states that his sources reveal that London has lots of silver at the LBMA. He wants the LBMA to report the actual inventories of all metals for market transparency purposes.

Markets - Avoid Japan ( Don't put a cent there ) & Avoid Europe

James Dines - The Dines Letter

Gold - The general theme is that in the comming crisis there will be flight to gold and that the frantic herd will pay any amount of paper to buy the precious metal. No specific price forecast

Silver - He stated that we are in a bull market. He states ( Don't confuse me with facts referring to the manipulation vs supply shortages, look at the chart. Is silver bullish or bearish? ) He stated that a manipulation is relative and as long as the price goes up ....

I went to the conference and the above noted is a very brief summary of certain speakers comments, hope that it helped. The event organizers are selling a video of the entire conference for $100 CDN. If interested you can call High Performance Events in Vancouver at ( 604 ) 602-5858 for more details. PS. I am not connected to this company but I thought I would pass on the information.

Final comment:

At the show there was one of our Vancouver coin dealers and he stated that there is a record demand for gold coins from the retail side. He stated that the demand is now greater than the 1980 period. At one point there was a six week delay for Maple leaf Gold Coins.

They also said that on the silver side there have been more selling of silver to the store from the public. ( The public is selling more silver to the store than buying ) This could be bullish from a contrarian perspective.?


(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:15 - ID#266105)

You mentioned Korea. I caught the C-Span press briefing
some months back upon the return of a Congressional junket,
the Con-men seemed pretty genuine and candid. They stated
that in the entire tour they saw nary a chicken, pig, cow,
or even water buffalo ( tractor ) . In response to a question
that if they had been constantly 'accompanied' couldn't
they have been 'routed' to see what was wanted to be seen.
One of the reps stated they expressed to go or see this or
that on the spur of the moment and weren't denied, and still
no livestock. If there's any truth to that, in another era
and place that would be termed 'eating one's seed corn', a
situation beyond point of return by any internal means.

I've gathered elsewhere that a diversion of simply
5% of military expenditures to food supply would feed
all in style. If any truth to THAT, it is a rogue capable
of absolutely anything. And Seoul but a short striking
distance from the border from not inconsiderable force.

I don't envy the folks serving there, I wouldn't like to.

Charles Keeling
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:17 - ID#344225)
What you say in your 11:28 does have some
real meaning.

Clinton thinks things will be deja vu. To him,
it will be a quick action and we come out clean.
I agree--the ballgame has changed. Sadam has
had several years to get ready to respond to
those countrys who bomb him this time.

I would not want to live in Washington DC or
New York City if the bombs start to drop this
time. If cocaine and heroine can be smuggled
into this country, so can anthrax and other
weapons of mass destruction.

We should have finished the job last time when
we had our allies lined up. I feel so sorry
for our soldiers who were gassed during Desert
Storm and then told by our Doctors that it was
just all in their head. That coverup was
despicible beyond belief.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:18 - ID#65207)
Karla Tucker
If we have no humanity for this woman we are all sick and dead.

Buzzz Georges Bush Jr.....

Or we will never benefit any of our gold investments..IMVHO

John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:21 - ID#24135)
You see a shrink too
for the false bernatz
You have so little imagination you steal someone else's
identity. You're just as annoying as Tshasklik. He's a dope
too, but at least he's not a racist. HaHAHAHA up yours.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:23 - ID#31868)
I say this..fuck you
Never deny the reach of the child...

Into the valley we ride, not all covered in the queens marmalde,

one of the six hundred,

we ride for those who seek freedom,

we do not bet,

we, ghosts support America ------

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:23 - ID#238422)
Old Soldier/reg. your message of 15:14.
There is a problem with Saddam in regard to Israel.
He hates Israel, and this feeling is well understood
and supported by a lot of other Arab countries,
When he fired missiles at Israel during the Gulf War,
he hoped to trigger a certain reaction - you know the rest..
and why ...

Israel, which is in fact the only trusted and relaible
friend of the U.S. in the ME, would not tolerate another
gas chamber for Jews - you know the rest and why...

Saddam, while causious in dealing with the U.S., can
jump on Israel, and this time I'm not sure that little
boy Bill Clinton will be able to talk them into not reacting
to chemical attack...

And here we got to a point of stupidy of American politics
in the ME - desire to keep a pocket enemy ( Saddam ) for
"domestic political use" and to leave a real big ME
problem untouched...

The only approach that works in any war - never leave
the enemy behind...

With my respect


(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:25 - ID#344308)


she PICK-AXED 2 INNOCENT PEOPLE TO DEATH! death......pick-axed.....innocents.....

let the punishment reflect the crime.....

you should have seen the relatives of the victims......there is the
tragedy.....if she gets her death penalty commuted...she will be
up for parole with-in 3 years!!!!!!!!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:26 - ID#347457)
@bernatz du ventadorm (Miro, weren't you the one)
Hep, yes I left close to the bottom and PM stocks went down another 15%. When they turned around, after making 2% in stock market, I came back and so far participated in 14% Fidelity PM mutual fund upswing. What do you suggest, I should have kept going down? That would be a zero gain.

BTW, what that has to do with color of my skin? You keep amazing me. Keep doing it, if you are really black, you are disgrace to your many fine brothers who are my friends.

That is my last response to your pitiful outbursts!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:27 - ID#302251)
what time ?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:28 - ID#26793)
From Davos: a definition of the worst case scenario

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:29 - ID#252150)
I keep reading about the possibility of another war in Iraq. What bs. In order to have a war, an opponent is necessary. How can Iraq with a GDP of 1% of U.S. GDP be considered an opponent? If attacking Iraq again is a war, then it is simply part 2 of the "most cowardly war in history" ( Noam Chomsky ) .

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:30 - ID#333131)
Fred: Anthrax has several forms-worst is intestinal- see summary below

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:30 - ID#318118)
@ bernatz du ventadorm
I am probably the most moderate and forgiving person who monitors and occasionally contributes to this forum. I have been somewhat upset by some of the input we receive but not enough to lash out at the offender.
But, in your case I am going to make an exception. GET YOUR BIGOTTED ASS OFF THIS SITE AND NEVER COME BACK!!!!

Sorry folks but somebody had to to something about this jerk.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:31 - ID#368244)

Let me begin by apologizing for the use of the word fool, but my point is that you can beat a dead horse all you want, it does not help. If we as a group can agree on some way, any way to get this valid point across to the idiots in power , than let us try. I think we all understand the dire implications of war [ any war] much less a nuclear war . But to post , post after post is a bit much. It is a very frightning thing, and I think most understand it's effect on the markets, in all likelihood there want be any.

Your friend, Isure


(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:32 - ID#376309)
Some BULLISH points for SILVER!

1 ) On a pruely technical basis the price of silver is above the 100 day moving average which is above the 200 day moving average and as of the close friday the 200 day moving average is above the 400 day moving average.

2 ) Looking at the price movements to Market Vane Weekly Bullish concensus over the past few months it looks like this move in silver has more to go. Specifically less traders were bullish as silver moved up these past two weeks then at previous short term highs at 5.30 & 6.40 so a move towards $7.00 would be supported by this data.

3 ) As DA clearly pointed out the other day, Martin Armstrong did recommend to short silver and is still telling one fund to sell it every now and then. Maybe silver is being manipulated but he is caring this a bit too far.

I realize and admit that I totally missed the move in Silver. Good call to thous who are long.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:33 - ID#302251)

I found that the book conversations with Nostradamus
by Dolores Cannon, has replaced all previous books,
as it uses a new technique of contacting Nostradamus directly.



This is the best intro:

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:34 - ID#333131)
From Summers at Davos: dollar has nothing to fear from euro

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:39 - ID#224149)
Bart ( Kitco ) ---I have friends and children that I wish to educate and show them how investors relate in conversations on this Gold forum but I see you have lost control ----Example -- tolerant1 ( I say this..fuck you ) ID#31868:

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:40 - ID#347457)
Ziva, your post at 7:36
Responses at 8:09, 8:56, 8:31, 13:40

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:42 - ID#341234)
To: Carl
Thanks for the info. on Anthrax. It sounds like it is over rated as a weapon of mass destruction. I am sure it is a terrible disease if you have it, but it does not sound like the replacement for the A-bomb.

John Disney__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:44 - ID#24135)
Arabs hate a lot of people
for Oris
Arabs are really strange. I swear that Saudi hate Palestinians
just as much as they hate Jews. They are Sun'ni Moslems and they
hate Shi'a moslems like Iranians. There are some shi'a in Arabia
too. They hate them. They also hate Iraqis - who are a mix
of shi'a and sunni and something else I forget what. They
also hate Jordanians. And they really hate qhaddafi in
Lybia. Everybody seems to like Egyptians okay. If you're in the
middle east and have a darkish complextion, I suggest you
pretend to be an Egyptian. But not bernatz - just be yourself
- you wont last long
Oh and you too Tshlashdregs - you be yourself too - see if
you can start a fight over Oasis Deeps - Only buy a one way
ticket - save money - you wont need the return.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:45 - ID#347457)
Isure, no need to apologize. The way you put it - I agree! Sometimes we beat the dead horse forever and that makes us look foolish.

Take care - Miro

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:45 - ID#26793)
Israeli public fears devaluation of shekel is near

ted butler__A
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:45 - ID#317184)


Thanks for posting Martin Armstrong's site the other day. It got me to pen a new piece on golden eagle, called The 800 Pound Gorilla. Would be interested in your comments. Thanks again.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:46 - ID#333131)
Hong Kong; Trust in government dropping. Other depressing New Year stories.

Charles Keeling
(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:47 - ID#344225)
After reading todays posts I am considering
switching my metals to Swiss Helvitas and
updating my passport.

GO GOLD....But not too high.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:51 - ID#341234)
To: Bart (and Poorboys)
The text editor on this site needs some work. For example, adding the space after the dash, and adding extra returns. As shown by the conversion of eagle to beagle, there is also an opportunity to screen out offensive words. Why not replace the word "f--k" with "I have trouble expressing myself"?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:51 - ID#398105)
bernatz du ventadorm ........................

( Oh a black man came onto Kitco one day ) ............

"So for that he was kicked off of Kitco"..............

In case you have not noticed, I believe that you are still here !

We at Kitco are "new age", sensitive types; especially the Scots.
Share your problems, and then wonder why everyone thinks you're neurotic or incompetent. It's nothing to do with your "colour" mate, just you !

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:52 - ID#65207)
( Cherokee my friend you ...influx the ..flux..! )
Are we on the Talion LAW?
Have we no humanity? Have you never sine?
Did our leaders never sine?
Did those judges never sine?
What did make AMERICA so great?
HUMANITY?...or ...ALAAAHHHH is great and HE IS on or side?

We are all humans and we will look very much like dirt in not so many years from now depending only on your birthday...or on your LUCK!

I am feeling the pain with the victims very profoundly,but still think this is AMERICA, the land of HOPE in all this madness.

We will not feel BETTER if SHE IS DEAD !By humanitarian injection!

BUZZZ Georges BUSH Jr....or KLINTON...?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:54 - ID#252150)
Tsclaw@your 14:16
I tend to agree with your outlook re: POG. My outlook was reinforced by Ed Hyman who was on WS Week on Fri. He has an incredible record going back 18 yrs. He's calling for lower inflation, a 5.5% long bond & flat equity mkts. Hardly a recipe for a high POG. He did say that there is a possibility of a blip in inflation in the next several months, but he does'nt rate it very high. I think that there will be opportunities in the trading range 278-320, but don't think the POG will stay over 320 for any length of time near term. Even if the CBs don't sell, I think that the producers will. No one knows what will transpire. I just want to remain flexible & try to be on the right side of the trend.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:56 - ID#333131)
Donald, Your 16:28, Nice catch!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:57 - ID#238422)
John Disney
God gave me pretty neutral apperance,
so I can play nearly anybody. While
in some Arab country, I would probably
prefer to play drunken Russian - usually
everybody around understands the feelings
of drunken Russian..Arabs are absolutely
crasy about Russian women, so I will
improve my position in Arab world by
telling them I got a truckload of blond
Russian chicks coming their way....

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:58 - ID#398105)

ZIVAS' ONGOING POSTS ! .....................STRUTH

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:58 - ID#317193)
Foul language-BAD manners-Bigotry
Just a thought from a newbie-ignore and refuse to respond to individuals who speak to you in a way you would not allow in your own home. Simply requst Bart to deny access. Peace to you all-or at least most of you! Tom

(Sun Feb 01 1998 16:59 - ID#26793)
Democracy in action in South Korea.
Trial Begins of South Korean Activist

SEOUL -- Human rights activists clamored for the release of activist Suh
Joo Sik as his trial began on the charge of showing a film that authorities
said was subversive.

Sarangbang, a leading human rights group in South Korea, said Suh, who
represents the group, is on trial for allegedly violating the National Security
Law. Suh was arrested Nov. 4 on charges related to a Human Rights Film
Festival he organized in October at a local university, which was raided by
the government, Sarangbang said.

Suh is accused of refusing to submit "Red Hunt," a documentary about a
1948 civil uprising on Cheju Island off Korea's southern coast, to official
censors. He is also charged with possession of books that "benefit the

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:02 - ID#20748)
Nuclear attack is not an option,but
I have a suggestion. The Iraq matter should be entrusted to Rubin and Greenspan. May take a mite longer, but they are sure to get Saddam surrendering to the IMF.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:02 - ID#23398)
Thank you for the info, did James Davidson and Doug Casey attend.If they did could you pass on their comments. Casey has been good on his advise on junior GOLD MINES.He regularly visits mines accross the world. ( not from his P/C .refer our in house CLOUD SHOVELORS/.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:03 - ID#318118)
That makes two of us! If you will excuse me now I'm going to go and count my Phillys

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:04 - ID#65207)
( All And BART in particular )
I feel if things turn realy bad...I mean REALY BAD..this forum will be a bloody field between hate and responsability LOVE and HOPE.IMVHO

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:05 - ID#372344)
@ Breaking News ..Saudi Arabia will NOT allow US planes to take off from it's soil to bomb Iraq...
The start of US IMPOTENCE?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:06 - ID#344308)


when she is paroled after serving less than 10 years for pick-axing
2 innocent souls........may-be the halfway house will be in your
neighborhood........and the next victims one of your loved ones....

liberalism.......let-em out, the devil made 'em do it.......just send
them to another state.......

an eye for an not next week, or next year......
immediate........stack-em high as cord-wood........these are their
plans for you and yours.....

would you bare your throat to the wolf?

i would, after dropping the sucker from 100yds with a 300gr slug.....

you will have your chance very soon to test your mettle against those
who WILL HAVE, you and yours......i 'sense' you are prepared.....

happy hunting...........for sanctuary

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:07 - ID#398105)

" it uses a new technique of contacting Nostradamus directly".

Aye, and I suppose that you have also got a "Magic Carpet" ?!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:09 - ID#341234)
To: James
Months ago, when gold was droping below $340, I heard reports that half the world gold production would be unprofitable below $320. Afterwards, I heard that the 50% unprofitability level was at $300 and then at $280. For arguements sake, say $320 gold will eventually reduce production by 25%. Is that a level that can be maintained? Production is already under demand, and demand is slowly increasing. Central banks could hold the price down through selling or loaning, but eventually gold will have to find its natural price. I agree with you that because of low inflation, demand for gold will not increase overwhelmingly; however, reduction in supply will eventually make $320 impossible.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:11 - ID#26793)
By the Davos definition we have been in the "worst case scenario" for over a week now.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:13 - ID#266105)

Post-Darwin evolutionary theorist Richard Dawkins
is an influential trip, as his his drinkin' buddy, the
post-quantum theoretician David Deutsch of the quantum
computing/cryptography Clarendon Institute at Oxford.
What a pair.

BTW, I've come across some lines of verse scribed
by 13th century ecstatic Persian poet Jelaluddin Balkhi
( Rumi ) that intimate that of Darwin some four centuries
prior. At least as translated from the original.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:15 - ID#398105)
IT'S YELLOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?

Ziva ( CHEROKEE ) ID#302251:
I found that the book conversations with Nostradamus
by Dolores Cannon, has replaced all previous books,
as it uses a new technique of contacting Nostradamus directly.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:15 - ID#243180)
Coments are getting stupid -- let's move on ...
A tip from Bart's netiquette:

If another person posts a comment or question that is off the subject, do NOT reply to the group and keep the off- subject conversation going publicly. "

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:18 - ID#26793)
India will not tolerate an attack on Iraq

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:21 - ID#333131)
Times They Are Ah Changin. Grab your Dow/Gold chart with one hand and hang on with the other. There's going to be a tank in the year of the Tiger.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:26 - ID#26669)
Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug re 16:15 post
That was a world class post! I've saved a copy and bookmarked it!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:31 - ID#65207)
( Cherokee I am arm to the teeth , for the FLUX..)
With guns an ammunition, real ones, and Gold bullions gold stocksss but best best hope ...this madness will never materialize...Am I dreaming?

Is there much more LOVE than HATE in this creay world?

Is EVERYONE here say there is no hope, if so I will drink all the bottle and sink into the sea.. right in front of my house here in the SUNSHINE STATE.....

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:31 - ID#227238)
JTF ( How did you do that? ) : It must have something to do with my continuing struggle to just remain conscious. : ) )

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:32 - ID#372344)
@ Debunked Dizzy Mohamed the Sadist......You are in serious need of proffessional help...
You have been chewed up and left with most of your skin exposed in the hot desert sun....exposing you for what you really are, terrible with facts and figures or SA propagandist.. most here by now know what you are....
BTW who stole the 100 MILLION OUNCES missing from Drooy?...
You cannot be bothered with facts and figures....what a joke...
Why oh why do you mention me in almost all your posts...I think
you are indeed a keep coming back for more...
I for one am getting bored with debunking you, it is far too easy...
Stay in your 5th dimendion, with your technicolor dreams, never face
the truth, because I've noticed you can't handle the truth....

BTW I could pour more salt into those wounds,with facts but I won't...
Goodbye OH great bedwetter er..bedouin.....

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:41 - ID#26793)
TVX Gold forecasts 25% production increase, strong cash flow

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:43 - ID#26669)
Fred and James et all: Value of gold
IMHO the setting of a floor value for gold may be reflective of Marxist or utilitarian economic dielectic rather than the actual state of affairs. The classic and purely noneconomic viewpoint, going back at least to the Bronze age, may prove more accurate in the long run. Fundamentally, people like gold, use it for a number of personal reasons and will absorb all that is allowed on the market place.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:45 - ID#333131)
Democrats in Congress thinking reverse triangulation.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:48 - ID#253246)
Golden Cheesehead (VENGF Forbes Magazine "MiningThe Suckers")

Every time I think about adding more VENGF to my already underwater position in an IRA I read this article in Forbes
forbes magazine archives Feb 10 1997 issue "Mining The Suckers"

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:52 - ID#26669)
I didn't know you worked for the government. But now I'm suspicious you are, as evidenced by your statement "i would, after dropping the sucker from 100yds with a 300gr slug.....". Else, why would you advocate armed civil violence on a gold discussion group? Trying to get ahold of one of those Right Wing Conspiracy secret decoder rings?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:52 - ID#57232)
We need a world class leader -- not for Iraq, but for a World-Wide money crisis!
Donald: Now India and Saudi Arabia want no part of our 'saber rattling' with Iraq. Wouldn't this be fitting after we threaten to use Nukes? I wonder -- what will BC do with those two Carrier forces if only the UK backs him up? Will they just sail away? This does not sound like the kind of diplomacy that wins supporters for American foreign policy.

Going back to more gold-related matters -- did you find anything more about the 400 tonnes of gold loans the South Koreans forgot to pay back, or the business about the IMF wanting to sell their gold to prevent a Russian implosion? And -- does Hashimoto have a chance at reforming the Japanese banking system before it implodes? Or - a China devaluation?

Sorry --- I know you can't answer all this, my friend.

It seems that the DAVOS consensus centers around watching China and Japan, and a plea for the US to provide a leadership role. The way I read this is that BC should be following this lead, and become an international statesman. He has the brains and voice for it, but I suspect he does not have the character or the sense of history. What was he doing during those years of education, and the period at Oxford? ( I can guess ) . I think the Iraq issue is secondary to the current real risk of worldwide financial meltdown. We can play with Saddam after we have resolved the other crises.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:53 - ID#224149)
Felderhof says he's a victim, too

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:54 - ID#341234)
To: 223
I prefer the simple explanation of markets: supply and demand. Economics 101.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:54 - ID#227238)
223: Right on. Consumers set prices. Governments do not. Unless of course they wish to defend their price by becoming a consumer. Very much as they set and defend the lower end of the labor market through the welfare system.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:55 - ID#227238)
223: Right on. Consumers set prices. Governments do not. Unless of course they wish to defend their price by becoming a consumer. Very much as they set and defend the lower end of the labor market through the welfare system. Don't think it will work the same way or as well for PM's though.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 17:56 - ID#57232)
I suggest a truce!
Tzadeak, John Disney: You are both getting nowhere -- so why not stop on the exchanges.

If you want to sling something -- what about a duel -- Camel dung at 20 paces?

Seriously -- it is getting tiresome. We have enough trouble with H----t as it is.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:00 - ID#26793)
West Coast companies hurting from Asian crisis

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:05 - ID#26669)
Earl et al
I would think that a 20th century government which has a strong welfare handout system might also have a strong base in Marxist or at least Socialist philosophy. And an overly developed REdistribution system implies an equally overly exentded basic distribution system. Plus of course Marxism's intrinsic instability.

Lucky for use we've recognized the recent relative overabundance of some commodities ( ie PMs ) and are stocking up accordingly. Our children will thank us.


(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:09 - ID#26793)
I have been on high alert for more on the Korean gold default but nothing except that lucky hit yesterday. Recall a few weeks ago when we kept hearing that "the fundamentals are sound" ad nauseum? I can't find that phrase anywhere! A free Dow/Gold update chart to the first person who can post anything dated the past two weeks that says the "fundamentals are sound" Claim your prize at

Mike Sheller
(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:09 - ID#347447)
Sunday @ Kitco
KUDOs to Brother LGB for his powerful comment which I take the liberty of repeating herewith:

"However, when it comes to a system as complex as say the DESIGN of the human eye, which requires the harmonious and spectacular operation of many
diverse and amazing components, none of which would be an advantage for a species by itself, especially if considered in small evoloving increments, I must
say the theory of evolution seems completely preposterous as a means of specie creation. "

A fine philosopher once put it: "I see a watch, I know there is a watchmaker."

For "scientists to argue against the presence of an intelligence, or, for that matter, intelligences greater than man is presumptuous folly at its most laughable. As for "religion," the discovery of what is truly at the root of the world's religions and scriptures is a lifelong pursuit and devotion. "Scientists" who have not trod that path had best keep their lips sealed for now. Metaphysics transcends physics, and is the speculation about the ideational root of all systems. It must be thought of, before it can be manifest. It is as much time for science to put away its disbelief in an unmanifest reality as it is for religionists to put away their anthropomorphic visions of God. Whatever IT is, it acts through us and we can KNOW it, and abide by and IN it. But it is there. We ignore its laws at our peril, and those laws are essentially moral. Science is merely the validation of the laws of the Supreme Intelligence. For it to think of itself as anything more is pitiful hubris.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:17 - ID#333131)
Donald, Summers at Davos "strong fundamentals" in Asia

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:18 - ID#372344)
@ Donald.., How about something with "Chinese won't devalue"Do I still win?...

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:18 - ID#57232)
Thanks for your input!
Donald: I think our SEAsia market rally will tank very soon. This may also weaken gold for a while, as Old Gold has said. Too bad BC is fixated on Iraq, when that is the one problem that could wait a bit. There will be no real military threat in the Middle East until someone starts throwing 'stones'. There is no need for us to be the first -- and we do have two carrier forces there if we need to respond.

The other more serious issues do not need military assistance, but diplomatic ones. Here's the chance for BC to go down in history -- if he's up to it -- and Monicagate will be forgotten if he pulls it off.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:20 - ID#26793)
Boston Fed President worries about inflation

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:25 - ID#344308)



gov't........right....what have my messages, posted over the
last 1-1/2 years, consisted of?

for years hunters have wished they could combine the power of a
shot-gun, with the long distance accuracy of a rifle--100yds to 150yds--

during the last 2 years the slug-gun------a rifled shotgun--------
has rapidly evolved into a 1-1/2"@100yds 300gr hard-hitter........
they are awesome and great for defense......and fairly new to the
market.....i've no military hard-ware.....nor the need........

basic model starts around $450.00........available from any gun-store
or dealer.......does not have a dad-damned thing to do with the gov't...

just used for turkey's!!!!!!!!!!!!!---aaawwwwwwkkkkkkkkkkkkk-----

it is UN-AMERICAN to not own gold or at least 2 guns for every family
member!!!!!!!!! be an american......get gold and guns.....we're gonna

shoot from the hip, aim for their lip............!;

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:28 - ID#238422)
John Disney, your enemy is my enemy, but....
My lovely brother Dr.Disney,

Whatever ABX shareholder Mr.Tzadeak said,
will never change my high opinion about you
and your camel, given to you by Allah...

Show this terribly upset brother that
you love ABX more then anything else,
and let the peace prevail....We already
got a serious problem of Bio-in-V on our
hands, I'm working hard to resolve it, and
I urge you to obey the truth of ABX....

I really don't want Mr.Tazdeak to have a
heart attack, do you want it? Of course,
you don't... I think...Have mercy...

However, let me point out that we leave in
a free world, so if you want it, nothing
I can do about it...

God bless you, brother...

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:30 - ID#252127)
In reply to all the political and warmongering speculation going on here during this past week

I add a mining company speculation that's well located in Nevada, close to some of ABX's fine mines and the future Euro/Franco Nevada project; I present: ,or simply Romarco Minerals, symbol ( r ) in toronto.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:31 - ID#26793)
@Carl, Tzadeak
Harumpf. Close enough Carl. Tzadeak: that is the contest for next week. All: The charts are always free because if you follow the Dow/Gold Ratio you already qualify as a "winner". I need postal addresses e.mailed to me charts will go out in the morning. If you need the original chart from 1903 please request it. Otherwise only the daily chart from July 28th through Friday will be mailed.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:32 - ID#372344)
@ JTF...RE Dizzy....
As you may know, I did not start this...From the very first day I posted
in this Forum , he has never adressed me with my proper handle,
and has called me all sorts of names etc....All this because I wanted to
post facts about SA and SA mines, in what I believe to be the search for facts to the benefit of all who post and lurk here at Kitco....I note that
no one here at Kitco has questioned his facts , which I have proven to
be wrong, and further no one has requested that he stop with the name calling and personal attacks on me... this I find interesting...
Having said that, I did not respond to his attacks for a number of days ,
wrongfully thinking they would stop. As long as he continues the
name calling and the personal attacks, I shall reserve the right to defend myself..Why don't you ask him to stop the name calling and attacks,
and when he does, you will see that I will.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:33 - ID#371247)
Temperature Report
Ted is usually on with his weather report. In anticipation of the Asian markets opening I post the following to give you some idea of what happens at various Farenheit temeratures.

Degrees Fahrenheit:
60 California residents put on sweaters ( if they can find one )
50 Miami residents turn on the heat
45 Vermont residents go to outdoor concerts
40 You can see your breath
California residents shiver uncontrollably
Minnesota residents go swimming
35 Italian cars don't start
32 Water freezes
30 You plan your vacation to Australia
25 Ohio water freezes
California residents weep pitiably
Minnesota residents eat ice cream
Canadians go swimming
20 Politicians begin to talk about the homeless
New York City water freezes
Miami residents plan vacation further South
15 French cars don't start
Cat insists on sleeping in your bed with you
10 You need jumper cables to get the car going
5 American cars don't start
0 Alaska residents put on T-shirts
- 10 German cars don't start
Eyes freeze shut when you blink
- 15 You can cut your breath and use it to build an igloo
Arkansas residents stick tongue on metal objects
Miami residents cease to exist
- 20 Cat insists on sleeping in pajamas with you
Politicians actually do something about the homeless
Minnesota residents shovel snow off roof
Japanese cars don't start
- 25 Too cold to think
You need jumper cables to get the driver going
- 30 You plan a two-week hot bath
Swedish cars don't start
- 40 California residents disappear
Minnesota residents button top button
Canadians put on sweaters
Your car helps you plan your trip South
- 50 Congressional hot air freezes
Alaska residents close the bathroom window
- 80 Hell freezes over
Polar bears move South
Green Bay Packer fans order hot cocoa at the game


- 90 Lawyers put their hands in their own pockets...........and
Bill Clinton zips his pants up.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:34 - ID#26669)
Whew! I'm glad I'm mistaken. That you were speaking of hunting game animals and not your fellow man is more obvious now. You were speaking of wolf in concrete rather than wolf in abstract, yes? But one can never be too certain these days until one asks! :^ )

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:35 - ID#390249)
Fundamentals are sound
Donald - I can't post anything but one of the panelists on Rukeyser's Wall Street Week last Friday said that the 'Fundamentals are sound.' I can't remember the guys name but I know he is quite famous. I believe he is head of Goldman Sachs - even though he was identified as an 'economist' - and a friend of RR. When I heard him say it, I thought that was the first time I heard that in a while.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:47 - ID#431263)
Herr Bufford--

I understand your angst, but that article is almost a year old and Robert Friedland sold out of Venezuelan Goldfields 2 1/2 years ago! He has ABSOLUTELY NO CONNECTION AT ALL WITH THE NEW VENGOLD AND ITS PRESENT MANAGEMENT! Vengold is an entirely new and vibrant company that through its present ceo has managed to raise almost 100 million dollars in investment capital to date and has a high probability of raising hundreds of millions more to take over the LIHIR gold mine from Rio Tinto! What I said still stands and yes, I own 25,000 shares of Vengold at present and intend to buy more as funds allow!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:51 - ID#26793)
I missed that but I am not surprised when the WSW program is bullish. As I said, charts are available to everyone. I have a new program that lets me print it out but I am not smart enough to figure out how to post it on Kitco. I can send it on the net as a .BMP file but it is a lot of data.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:54 - ID#238295)
gold and gold shares
I am very bullish on gold lomg-term, but remain cautious short-term. Agree with those on this thread who argue that gold probably will not be trading above $320 anytime aoon. But that is fine with me, because this will mean more mine closures and mergers. And the more the industry is forced to rationalize, the better the shares will do when the yellow does take off.

My take is that when gold again hits $400 ( probably in 1999 ) the XAU will sell well above the 140 level it reached the last time bullion was at such rarified levels.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:54 - ID#228128)
Science and religion
One final note on evolution. The science of evolution is not in any way at odds with religion. Understanding the fact of evolution does not require that you reject religion. The science of evolution seeks only to describe the process which produced the myriad of life forms that we see today. It does not attempt to explain the who or the why part of our existence. Most evolutionary biologists understand, for example, that the creation of life as described in Genesis matches perfectly the order of appearance of life on earth as we see it in the fossil record. The problem for many people is that they have trouble making the distinction between their emotional reaction to things and logic. They tend to incorporate and allocate their knowledge and experience into belief systems without trying to make the distinction between things you have to accept on faith and the things that are facts. When this happens, people's emotions often get in the way of reason. Thats why one of the cardinal rules of investing is to not let your emotions get in the way. Those of us who have been at this site for a while know that their are those for whom gold is a religion. Many have suffered financially as a result. It is well worth the while to take some time and ask ourselves if we are using scientific reasoning in our investment decisions or are we doing it largely for religous reasons. Faulty reasoning here could cost you some money. P.S. LGB2 Something called phylogenetic inertia was involved in the evolution of sight. You should look it up.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:57 - ID#266105)

I guess there's wise and otherwise, some like and some
aren't like then those not sure who are the most interesting
like my wife. But anyway, a few scrolled on by, no return,
extinct, sorry. Outta here to other things.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 18:59 - ID#372344)
@ US to supply Israel with (500,000) antidotes for ANTHRAX...

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:01 - ID#252127)
Goldener KaeseKupft; excuse my lousy german, but

wouldn't it be better for VenGold to have Friedlander's financial backing along with their excellent team of mining professionals in place; before an effort to run Lihir were attempted? Last would the Rothchild's agree?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:04 - ID#392328)

What do you know about "R-T" they are still in the early to mid in drilling
on the midas property the won't have a reserve figure.Thier last press
release hardly moved thier stock I'm finding thier support at $2.25........

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:07 - ID#372344)
@ new contest "US$ is strong,we have nothing to fear from new Euro"

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:11 - ID#372344)
@ next weeks contest, from Davos"Chinese won't devalue"

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:15 - ID#372344)
@ US tells Japan to "Inflate"

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:16 - ID#252127)
Trying to keep up with other speculation going on around here

But location, location, location and some very good intersections at Midas, plus recent pocketing of $15 million bucks, gives them a bit of slack in a lousy gold market that may turn positive.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:17 - ID#286199)
early returns from EBN
Japan up 210
Gold up 1.10
Silver up a penny

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:20 - ID#26793)
Commodity prices from Statistics Canada

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:22 - ID#227238)
IDT: With cheers and goodwill; there is never a final word on evolution. To those with an interest in the matter, the overthrow of the hated Darwin, asssumes a higher importance than living by one's religious principles. ...... But why complain, the show is a good one. And the outcome? Hardly worth a pitcher of warm spit.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:24 - ID#403277)
IDT: Well said! You have hit the nail on the head. And you found a way to tie together the religious and investment discussions.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:24 - ID#392328)
Even if they are in good position finacially,it still dosent have support
if they are some what tied to fn/en then the stock should have had an
upswing when the price of gold rose .................................

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:28 - ID#31868)
Speak to me, JEW without memory. Speak to family burnt.

You have a mouth let me hear the brain.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:29 - ID#252127)
Has anyone got a list of

Hard Commodity Prices for every fifth year begining in 1975, and the same for soft commodities.
It would be interesting to compare them with todays prices and 20+ years of rising cpi.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:44 - ID#256254)
Who was saying that kitco pm values always seem to be correct?
Last Updated Mon Feb 2 01:30:00 1998 CET
Description Value Change
Gold Spot 303.75 1.50 0.50%

What is going on with Kitco?
This bb seems to be fraying at the edges and many fronts. I guess I would say that the bb activities, problems, ... are a very bullish indicator for gold. I think I have seen more non gold posts recently than I have seen in years. Silver and Gold are looking very positive.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:44 - ID#431263)
Herr Jack--

The work's already been done by Rio Tinto which is really a base metal miner. At some point, and for the right price, they will gracefully bow out to do what they do best--develop new world-class mines. IMHO Robert Friedland and co. are a bunch of crooks right up there with carnival barkers and used car salesmen! If you doubt my analysis, ask the people downstream from his Galactic environmental disaster in Colorado what they think of him. Outside of creating a lot of wealth for himself and his broker cronies, wherever he has landed has eventually led to disaster for shareholders who were unfortunate enough to have listened to his hyped-up BS. As for the Rothschild's--they're more interested in rolling over their wealth and leveraging it in new enterprises than waiting for the price of gold to rise IMHO! Wiedersehen!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:45 - ID#252127)

At its present price of can $3, Romarco is vulnerable to the gold price and other bad news. I will keep an eye on it and if it drops below can $2, the daily routine will be to check it out, at least two times.
I'm more in the fundamentalist camp, and would rather place bets on a producer with cash flow and cash reserves, but Romarco still interest's me.
Remember how Coral Gold went up after Amax Gold loosened its grip on them?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 19:52 - ID#26669)
Not to mention Steve Kaplan's recent bearishness. A contrary indicator for sure!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:00 - ID#252127)
Golden Chessehead

Interesting thoughts. What do you think of the talk that Billiton Metals has an eye on INCO, isn't Billiton part of the Rothschield Camp? Does Frielander still own shares of INCO from his Voisy Bay days? Do you or anyone here know the answers to the above questions, it would be interesting
As for Friedlander's Colorado problems, they were polluting those streams well before Galactic ever started mining there. I'm not defending Friedlander, just feel that the world wide environmental witch hunt is being used to destroy the Miners.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:03 - ID#258129)
Iraqand USA
Just scrolled back recent messages - a lot of them about Iraq. May be, I am overreacting, but here is what I think about it, as well as about some todays posts.
1. oldman - what a shame. Do you really think, that couple of $$ is worth to let thousands die? Much more will die generations later - cancer and other diseases. How much do you expect to make if it will really happened and BC will use nukes? 100,000 or a million? Is it worth? If you are really old, as your handle says, you should be wise - one can not take it to the grave.
2. BC - with all respect to American part of Kitco population - people, you have voted twice for this man. Now eat it. There is an old saying, that each folk deserves the leader, it has. There where messages like "We did not use nukes in Vietnam", "Russians did not use nukes in Afghanistan" And never threatened. Thats right. Big dog does not bark, only the small ones. What happened now? Oh, yes, this French story in American house You know, even if it is not true at all, as a gentleman and as a person, who cares about the image of his country, one has to resign - or you think different?
3. Israel - Madeleine Albright - is it possible that Iraq will attack Israel and use massive distraction weapons - yes. When and why? IMO, when the beast will see no other way out. He is a dictator in a very bad meaning of this word. But he is not suicidal. And mad not bright lady is pushing him there. Dont you see?
I want to return to the beginning of my message. I feel great sympathy to people, who collect coins. I do understand people, who invest in PM stocks. I, like many others here buy and sell PM options - to make some money. But I do not want my money to be earned because one guy, because he has personal problems on sexual ground will decide to use nukes and kill thousands.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:07 - ID#26669)
Um, what is the chance that gold could skip the $320...
...resistance level and go on to the $340 level??? There's no hint of leveling off in the January run up.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:18 - ID#261269)
South Korea biting the dust (again)
and early as well....

South Korea
Seoul Composite

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:26 - ID#431263)
INCO, Friedland and Voisey Bay
Sorry Jack--

Ich weiss nicht! And quite frankly, with respect to Robert Friedland, I could care less! If he still owned any INCO I'd have sold any I owned ASAP to some other poor soul braver than I. Indochina Goldfields ( sound like a Chinese version of Bre-X if ya ask me! IMHO as always.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:30 - ID#431263)
NFC 21 AFC 14
Should the NFC defeat the AFC tonight in the Pro Bowl would that negate the Super Bowl Indicator? Anyone?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:31 - ID#270315)
Price of gold in europe tonight?
Gold is currently up $1.40 or .46% Yahoo keep on goin!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:32 - ID#372344)
@ Old Gold....
Although I would agree with your scenario of 320 for next few months
given the status quo ante, I have always believed that a number of unforseen crisis such has been discussed here,could materialize ,quite rapidly, judging from the speed of the collapse of some Asian markets, and propel Gold much higher than 320. Of course the duration, and
resolution or lack thereof of said crisis would determine the extant and
duration of said rally. I do not belive that Gold will decline while we have
the "threat"of or actual military activity in ME, even if the US$ rises
during this period. I noted last week that Gold was behaving as if it
had regained it's role as "safety" in times of war or threat of. If
in fact Gold does rise during said crisis then my hypothesis will be
proven and the outlook for Gold would certainly be very good indeed,
since I suspect many more "crisis" are developing.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:33 - ID#288295)
Gold trend up... oil up... index up.... US Treasury 30 yr yields bottomed??.... dollar index topping....

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:38 - ID#288295)
Looks like my ISP made a mess out of the links listed in last posting....get the charts at...

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:38 - ID#261269)
But other SE Asia soring...and S. Korea
still tanking ... what's a fellow dto do?? Silver up .02...Gold up 1.40

PSE Composite
Straits Times
South Korea
Seoul Composite

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:39 - ID#261269)
But other SE Asia soring...and S. Korea
still tanking ... what's a fellow dto do?? Silver up .02...Gold up 1.40

PSE Composite
Straits Times
South Korea
Seoul Composite

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:39 - ID#270224)
223 Gold Price above $320?
Think about all the Asians who are luckily debt free and are anticipating their currencies getting hammered by pending bankruptices. I'm sure that more than a few of them are parking some of their money in gold, silver and international bonds or treasury bills. I wouldn't be surprised if gold hits $320 US/oz in the next 30 days and silver goes to at least $6.50, maybe even $7. The advantage of silver is the central banks don't control it. Gold has to go up long term or the supply will dry up due to so many unprofitable mines below the $320 per oz price.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:41 - ID#270315)
Price of gold in europe tonight?
Gold is currently up $1.40 or .48

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:43 - ID#261269)
spromg = soaring!! (dam keyboard...)

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:47 - ID#261269)
I got this keyboard from Ted
and it doesn't work properly unless it's been drinking....;; )

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:49 - ID#57232)
Why is the commodity price index (cry0)going up?
All: I think I have asked this question at least three times! Doesn't anyone know? This indicator is very important to gold trends, as sudden upturns and downturns in this indicator tend to cause gold to do the same!

SilverBaron -- do you know?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:52 - ID#270224)
JTF I'll guess oil price is up

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:54 - ID#431263)
I'm no Ziva devotee, but just got done listening to the ART BELL show for Jan. 29 and can't believe the stuff I heard about what's really goin' on in our govt. to take control of American citizens by the year 2000. Too much to comment on here but anyone who has any interest at all in this kind of stuff cannot miss this interview! The Y2K problem will be the catalyst to mark every man, woman and child in the US with a smart biochip without which you will not exist, politically, financially, medically, legally or physically! Listen for yourself at for Jan. 29. At best, entertaining as hell--at worst, frightening as hell!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 20:57 - ID#431263)
HOUR 2 MINUTE 35 to the end
Fast forward on your real time audio REAL PLAYER to hour 2 minute 35 to the end.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:01 - ID#431263)
One for the TORTFEASOR
By the way TORTFEASOR--it would have to be a hell of a lot colder than -80 degrees for Green Bay Packer fans to sip hot chocolate--a little Brandy or Schnaps perhaps, but hot chocolate? Ya' gotta' be kiddin' me, mein Herr!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:02 - ID#390249)
Attached is a must read gold article from Belgium
I got the attached article from the SI thread. Very interesting piece from Belgium on gold.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:04 - ID#233181)
mining stock newbie
I have been interested in buying gold mining stocks for the past 2 years. I've subscribed to Adrian Day, James Dale Davidson, and Doug Casey Newsletters--all contrarians. I'm starting to get the itch to spend $10k on a senior and a couple of juniors. I've been watching Trillion, Pangea,Miramar and Newmont for the last couple of weeks. Is anyone familiar enough with these companies to make a recommendation?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:04 - ID#372344)
@ Japan to redefine it's security talks to China....

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:06 - ID#344308)


here is some very realistic data--------enjoy..........and

beans and corn are a GOOD SHORT! as told here 4 weeks ago......

hope you enjoy seems to be your favorite dish.......

time to buy some more CHEAP, bean and corn puts.........and 2 more
gold calls monday............2koz gold with is good........and very volatile......nectar-for-options---------

gold options...going to 20 monday.....
bond 1 more monday...
us$ puts...........
bean 1 more monday...
corn 2 more monday...
currency puts......

the additions will cost less than $600.00.... well worth it immmf.......


(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:13 - ID#372344)
@ Davos...SA Pres Mbeki says Gold as good as Gold...
SA Pres MBeki who is attending meetings in Davos with the Europeans
is quoted as saying that when the new Euro is about to be introduced "talks with the US and the Europeans will produce circumstances that will mitigate against SPECULATIVE SELLING of Gold" he is also quoted as saying that "the Europeans will back their new Euro in in part with Gold since it is still a very good store of value".... In other Davos news France said it would sell any Gold.......

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:15 - ID#57232)
I understand your frustration
Delphi: Don't be to hard on the American voters who voted for him twice. Have you heard him speak? He is the smoothest, most mesmerizing person I have ever heard -- in this decade. He still had my spouse under his spell until the Monica Lewinsky bit hit the news. He had me until just after the first presidential election. He was an unknown, and he sounded very good.

It is not easy to see through the facade to see the emptiness there. In fact, most American presidents mature in their second term when they realize they have nothing to lose by doing what they think is right. Thus, even when they falter in the first term, the aging process seems to help. But not BC.

BC apparently only knows one thing -- how to get elected. He seems to be rudderless when it comes to foreign affairs. He has been nominated for the Nobel peace prize, but instead of 'going for it' he is hinting at using nuclear weapons on Iraq, and Saddam has done nothing aggressive other than irritate everyone regarding the inspections.

I got thoroughly enmeshed into the 'what will happen to Iraq' bit most of today -- but then I realized that the really important problem right now is not the Middle East -- it is a real potential for worldwide financial collapse. BC should be actively organizing meetings with all world powers, getting relevant parties together before we have a worldwide meltdown. If he does this all the xxxgate problems will be ignored, and he will deserve the Nobel peace prize.

Did you see that the essence of the DAVOS converence is that the key to the future of the world's financial system is:

1 ) Leadership role of the US

2 ) Japanese resolution of their banking problems

3 ) Non-devaluation of the Chinese Yuan

( and Russia -- don't know if mentioned )

The Iraq problem can sit for a while -- the Middle East is a powderkeg, but the fuse is not lit, and we already have two Carrier groups there. There is no need for us throw the first stone. If we do -- we will live to regret it!

Now I am beginning to see how certain events are unstoppable. I don't like what I think is coming, because two many different cyclic events seem to be converging. You do not need to be psychic to see what is going to happen. And -- I would gladly give away my hard earned savings if I could be assured of peace and prosperity in the world for a generation. Because -- why would I need the gold or other similar assets for a rainy day?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:18 - ID#348129)
spenc: You may want to check out Greenstone and Gold Star.
Thay have both been recomended by Frank Veneroso. Greenstone has already moved up substantially, and Gold Star has been inching up on small volume.
They are well below their 52 week highs ( what else is new ) .

Charles Keeling
(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:20 - ID#344225)
RE: Your stock possibilities.
Of those you mentioned, I like NEWMONT the best.
Newmont is a low cost producer. It is a good
solid well managed company. I watched it during
the last run up to 400 +, and it did very well.
Go for it. The time is right, and the price is
good. I also like ABX. It represents mining
shares on the S & P 500. Should go back to 40
on a runup to 400.00. You have lots of good
stocks to choose from since they have all been
clobbered with the POG running down past 300.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:24 - ID#286199)
Here's your air strike and I'll raise you ??
Gingrich raises the stakes

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:31 - ID#57232)
SI post on gold
Neophyte: Thanks for posting this -- nice summary. One important item in here that supports my and other's suspicions about Argentina. Argentina just sold all 124 tonnes of their gold on Dec 1997. Apparently they bought American bonds. ( my comment-- a better investment? ) . We need to confirm this, but I think it is true. If so, Argentina is probably the next domino to fall.

I'm not sure 'the dollar bubble will burst' in 1998. The Euro does not look much stronger than the dollar. And -- if Russis is imploding, the political/economic uncertainty of who will have control of all the nukes might keep the dollar up for a time. But -- regardless, the fundamentals for a gold rally are in -- and it F Veneroso is right the POG will reach equilibrium at approximately $600/oz ( that is what he said in December 97 ) . It will be interesting if his book says more.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:31 - ID#288295)
Here's an explanation of how the CRB index is constructed...

Charles Keeling
(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:41 - ID#344225)
Forgot about another one youo may wanat to
look at. CANARC RESOURCES on the Toronto
exchange. One of Venerosa's favorites. Right
now it is at .50 US. It has 2 million oz. of
drill indicated reserves in Canada and Costa
Rico. Just went into a JV with PDG on a strike
in Suriname. It is a surface open pittable
deposit that is now being drilled by PDG. If
it proves out to 300 feet, it will have 10
million ounces. Should be a low cost producer.

CANARC has no debt. They haave two other large
JV partners on other properties that have very
excellent potential. They operate another
small mine at Sarah Creek in Suriname that gives
them some cash flow. The PDG JV was worth 20
million to Canarc. So, they will weather the
storm. They have 30 million shares outstanding.
The new Polaris in Canada that they own 100 %
is being looked at by several majors for a JV.
This property has 1.6 million ounces of drill
indicated reserves, and is open in three
directions and TO DEPTH. Anticipated cost of
production is $195.00. Average ounces per ton
is .42 oz per ton. I own this one, so I may be
prejudiced. But I follow it so close that I
just recently doubled down. This stock has not
been discovered yet.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:48 - ID#431263)
Hey Kitco--WAKE UP! HANG SENG now UP 742 pts! May soon cross the 10,000 level. Indonesia up big too! Only down markets are S. Korea and Sri Lanka ( riots ) . Looks like a buying panic in Asian equities! SUCKERS!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:50 - ID#288295)
Charles Keeling
Charles - hope you won't mind if I take a contrarian-contrarian's position....There's nothing wrong with investing in a well-managed major with low costs - you'll do OK in a gold bull market...But if you think that gold is going to say, $400 or more, you can make a lot MORE money investing in a high cost ( unhedged ) producer, because of the earnings leverage to the price of gold. I made the low-cost choice in '93 by investing in Hemlo Gold - one of the lowest-cost producers at that time, and doubled my money in the 93 bull market - but I could have made 3 or 4 times that much by investing in some of the high-cost producers. I've chosen the high-cost producers this time around.

Mike Sheller
(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:52 - ID#347447)
Delphi - your 20:03
Spoken like a true oracle.

Charles Keeling
(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:53 - ID#344225)
I can confirm for you that Argentina did
sell all of their gold holdings which was
3 million ounces. The article that I read said
that they also bought Calls at 340 at the same
time. That article was posted on the bb back
in early December I think.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:54 - ID#234218)
TVX and William Jefferson Clinton???????????????????????????
Not that they have anything in common, just thought it would get some attention.

Does anyone have any updated info on TVX's Greek mining operations? The feasibility studies are scheduled for March release and I haven't seen anything on the legal issues. Just curious if anyone had any info or would care to speculate on the outcome of either.

Just for the record, not ALL Americans voted for Slick Willie!!!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:54 - ID#233181)
Is it Gold Star Energy or Golden Star Resources? Symbol?

(Sun Feb 01 1998 21:56 - ID#431263)

Charles Keeling
(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:00 - ID#344225)
Thank you very much for your input. I
guess I am just a bit spooked by the current
POG. I know that a high cost mine can be good,
because I was in RYO back in 93, and it really
did well when gold hit 400. I tripled my
money, sold at 5.75 and paid off a mortgage. So
you are for sure right. Once again thanks. I
am searching for courage.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:01 - ID#65207)
Spot Gold EBN 303.60...+1.35..Sylver 6.27..+ .03
Tokyo 16682..+54

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:07 - ID#65207)
Yen 126.42 in the up-side
S&P 500 up +330 at 991.25

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:09 - ID#344308)

nikkei225 down -286 and sucking-wind........

japan's 'hidden' debt is fixing to be forced
from the closet. there are many more closets
than remedies.......

paper is fixing to flame........around the world..
when it hits our shores.....the deed will be done...
and the tsunami ever comes.....relentless........
in-exorable..........and in-evitable......

gold and silver deep-divivng-vessels will provide refuge and
sanctuary for the priveleged and prepared few.....


(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:09 - ID#253228)
Advice from an old man. Wait until the end of April to put your money in gold shares. The probabilities favor a shapr decline into that time frame rather than any significant rally. You have waited two years. Keep your powder dry a few more months and you may hit a home run.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:10 - ID#258129)
JTF - "I don't like what I think is coming" - me too
JTF, thanks for reply. My outsider view: when I saw BC first time on TV, I though - looks as a simple good guy, people like such kind, may be too simple for the role, but the whole system is right, so it will go on right. Looks like as I was wrong. When I for the first time heard about ML scandal I thought - there might be a war on M. East. I wish to be wrong again. It is a normal dictators behavior - to begin a war when domestic situation get bad. There is no international support for this action. In 1991 Iraq was an aggressor. Not now. Economic reasons - dont think so. Iraq can sell only limited volume of oil under UN control. What are exactly American interests is this case? Just to smash a dictator? There are many of them, for example, in Indonesia, but nobody threaten Indonesia with nuclear bomb attack. There was a former Soviet Union, much more powerful and dangerous - with plenty of mass distraction weapons - but there was no such American president who was insisting on international inspections of Kremlin. There are communists still in power in China, with nukes, but USA makes a good trade with this country. Please, get my right, there is nothing in my words to defend Saddam. I simply say this to underline double moral, nothing else.

Charles Keeling
(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:15 - ID#344225)


Here is what you need.

January 26,1998

he new year is shaping up to be a very financially rewarding one. It certainly is going to be an exciting one for Veneroso Associates. Frank just finished his first Gold Book Annual and it is now at the printers. The book is very thorough and its conclusions and its insights about the gold market are likely to shake up many participants in the gold industry. Some of the book's revelations include:
) Gold's real rate of return is surprisingly high. Frank's calculations go back over both a 25-year period and a 180 year period. The Gold Book Annual will be presented to many central bankers and this study may have some effect on the ones that espouse the common day thinking that gold is a "barren reserve asset".
) Gold demand has been much greater than most analysts believe and so is the extent of gold borrowings. As a result of very diligent research, we believe that number to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 8,000 tonnes. That is a big number and times change. At some point in the future, this liability could play a major role in the future price of gold.
) While you never hear it discussed, there is an end to the central bank selling. As a result of the gold market's current supply / demand deficits, it is not as far off as you might think. The Gold Book Annual lays out various scenarios for you.
) If the central bank selling were to stop today, the price of gold, their own reserve asset, would have to rise to $600 per ounce to clear the market.
he Gold Book annual was delayed due to the Asian crises as we had to do our best guess to assess its impact on the gold market. Frank is especially equipped to deal with this issue because he has dealt with emerging country Finance Ministers and central banks as well as with the IMF and the World Bank for much of his business career. As many of you know, Frank has written several recent pieces on the Asian crisis. They have created quite a stir and have received a great deal of attention. We understand that these papers have been read by top officials in the World Bank and IMF as well as Finance Ministers and heads of state in some the emerging countries. A short piece will be published in The Economist next week. While many of you subscribe to the Gold Watch Fax Service, Frank is also an advisor to money managers on macro economic issues and is available as a consultant for any of you that have an interest in Asia.
Recently, many of the technical indicators that we monitor led us to believe that the gold market was set up for a substantial rally, and we issued a fax to that effect when gold was trading in the low $280's. On Friday we heard that a large hedge fund had covered shorts on the lows and now has gone long, with the intent of taking on other hedge fund shorts. If the deflation theme changes, and other funds decide to also go long, we could have quite a move. There is significant investment opportunities in the gold share sector. We have highlighted a regional play in the Guyana Shield ( Golden Star Resources and Canarc Resource Corporation ) that has tremendous upside potential. Soon we will issue another on Greenstone Resources. Tuesday, Frank leaves for Nicaragua with Greenstone CEO, Rudi Fronk, to inspect their projects. We believe that our "bottoms up" research is a thorough as our "top down" macro work and hope that you will avail yourself of all our company studies.

If you would like to know more about Veneroso Associates and our services, please contact me.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:22 - ID#153102)
What is the basis for saying the probabilities favor a decline of gold into the April timeframe ?

Charles Keeling
(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:23 - ID#344225)
Golden Star Resources has a strike in
Suriname, South America. Their property lies
adjacent to the Benzdorph property which is
owned by CANARC RESOUORCES with PDG being the
JV partner. The vein that Golden Star
discovered ran across into the Benzdorph
property. This is the area that has Venerosa's

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:31 - ID#258129)
@Mike Sheller - Thanks
It is late in Amsterdam, or better to say - it is already morning here. Good night all

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:32 - ID#228128)
Friedland Flops
Indochina Goldfields if memory serves was opened to trading around $15 with lots of promotion since several prominent newsletter writers and brokers got in the back door with $5.00 priivate placements. Its 52 week high was $19, probably about the time that the private placements were open for trading, and now stands at $2.29. Another is Queenstake with a 52 week high of $4.50 and now trades for .62. All prices in Canadian dollars.
SPENC: Beware of Casey's promotions. He makes light of the fact that he has been involved with the companies that he recommends when he says stuff like "I own em". What that likely means is that he got a cheap private placement, probably with favorable terms, because the companies know that he will promote the stock to his readers. At best this means that after he promotes the stock up he can sell a portion of his shares risk free ( you get the risk ) . This caveat applies to all the newsletter writers, with some on the level and others, well ....

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:33 - ID#30116)
It's still the weekend so I'll put my 2 in...
For all of those who 'claim' to have been fooled by Bill Clinton... Give me a break! All that you would've had to do was look at his record as governor of Arkansas. The poor stayed poor, the education system was not improved, and the state has managed to stay near the bottom of the list in economic status during his tenure. He is called 'slick' for a reason.

These facts were easily available for those who cared to find out a little bit about the man they were going to cast a vote for. No, those who voted for Bill, did so knowingly. No excuses accepted here.

As for this, 'Monica - gate' thing; This incident belies far greater trouble ahead for Bill. IT IS NOT ABOUT SEX! It is about power and the ability to control and abuse people at will. One has to really ask the question, "Do you really want someone with this kind of 'attitude' to be in a position of authority?"

Were all of these flings done for the 'thrill' of it? Was it the 'extreme' desire for physical contact? Was it just 'risk taking'? If you think that any of these are possible, then ask yourself what new realms might this pattern of behavior lead to? The answer might be a little unsettling. Think about that the next time another 'bimbo' eruption takes place.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:34 - ID#227238)
Neophyte: Great link from that Belgian analyst.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:35 - ID#177109)
LBG, Bro Sheller, IDT
Thanks for cogent comments on evolution. There is no more reason to think that the evolution of biological systems is any more random than are markets. The "random walk theory" of markets now seems quaint, a mere thirty years after its rise to faddishness in academia. Markets wobble and cycle, and very few things in nature are linear. You may object that random behavior can congeal or thin out like traffic in major cities at rush hour and 3 AM, but really there ARE cycles in most everything. Are they purposeful or in harmony with the spheres, or both or neither? Whatever, some things happen in a hurry and others do not. I daresay the eye took quite a long time to happen or be created. Supposedly one sign of superior intelligence is to be able to hold two or more opinions on the same subject in mind at once without difficulty or rancor.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:38 - ID#401460)
April Gold
Apr. Gold

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:40 - ID#401460)
South Korea
Seoul Composite

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:42 - ID#227238)
Panda: Well said. There was no excuse for not seeing clear through BC in 92 and even less excuse for avoiding the truth in 94. Absolutely none.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:47 - ID#401460)
Chest checking in, markets seem to be taking a turn in Asia, will be an interesting evening and week.

Some people, including me, were having a problem accessing the NET earlier. They say everyone is trying to get the latest on JailBait Gate.


(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:50 - ID#225273)
C. Keeling and Canarc
I'd be careful with Canarc. 1 ) It has had the same CEO since 1988 -- 10 years -- and the shares are still only 50 cents.
The Polaris--Taku property in British Columbia has been held by Canarc for several years. They've never done a thing with it.
I can't comment on the stuff in South America. It just seems to me like management is subpar.
Remember Dr. Diane ????. ( I can't remember her last name. Texas gal. ) She left United Services mutual funds to become investor relations director for Canarc. It wasn't long before she left and has never talked about why.
I just think there are management problems there.

The Preacher

(Sun Feb 01 1998 22:56 - ID#227238)
High Rise: Nice Nikkei charts. It looks like a weekly close at 18000 is to be the top of this run. ....... but it doen't look like it will do it tonight.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:02 - ID#225273)
spenc and gold shares
Trillion is called "an African mutual fund." It has a lot of projects all in Africa. I thiink the day of junior gold stock investors putting big money in African and Asian gold stocks is over for a long while, at least. That's something to consider.
Trillion has good management, but last year's exploration sure didn't produce much.
Pangea I'm not too familiar with.
Miramar is excellent when looking at the numbers. Its CEO Wally Barrakoff ( of something like that ) is a real tightwad. That's good. The company has over C$100 million in cash, I believe. The only problem is that most of its assets are in places like Cuba, except for the Con Mine in the Yukon, I believe.
And operations at the high-cost Con Mine have been recently scaled back dramatically due to the low gold price.
All in all, with all its money, tough seasoned management, who will probably buy some good assets now that they're cheap. Miramar is a good one right now.
Newmont is, of course a senior producer. It will do well if gold does, but doesn't have the explosive upside potential of a Miramar.

The Preacher

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:02 - ID#30116)
It will be interesting to see what happens next with BC. His ratings are high, and we have the Iraq 'situation' to contend with. I seem to recall something from the Bible on pride and arrogance coming before a fall.

Wars, or 'military actions in the name of the U.N.', cannot be won or enforced without the foot soldier. To use the other elements of our military might in the absence of the foot soldier is folly.

Any action that we take 'over there' had better be decisive. Anything less will not be pleasant...

Time to hit the sack, good night all...

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:03 - ID#234218)
Earl and Panda
Here, here!!!! Slicky Willie is one of the few politicians that showed his true colors before the election. Everyone saw it and the majority voted for it. Uunfortunately we all have to suffer the same punishment. I respect the office, but I can't respect the man. What I don't understand is why everyone is talking so much about it. He's just doing the same things that got him elected. Why so surprized????

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:03 - ID#401460)
Gold & Silver
6165 +40

I guess these are real time?


(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:08 - ID#270224)

Don't buy any gold stock that can't make a profit at current prices and has to service debt. I wouldn't buy any juniors that didn't have a ton of cash and proven low cost reserves. Stick with the lowest cost debt free producers. Newmont, Prime, Franco Nevada, Euro Nevada. I like Prime the best because of its huge silver output.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:11 - ID#57232)
No excuse for not seeing the truth in 92 and 96?
Earl,Panda: Right now BC is one of the most popular presidents we have ever had! I think both of you are missing a very important point, and that is the vast majority of Americans think BC is doing a 'good job'. We are in the minority. If BC was getting the same treatment from the media and public that Nixon had, I doubt he would get a second term.

BC has charisma, and is a natural politician. Most Americans are mesmerized by him, and have voted for him. I wish you were both right, but it is not so. Most people do not think for themselves to the degree that both of you or I do. I was fooled for about a year after the first election. Panda -- did you really check his record in Arkansas?

What we are seeing is a grand cycle of some kind, and the dirty laundry items that you implied -- Panda -- will not become public knowledge until the economy worsens, or we have a mishap in the Gulf. Given what OldSoldier has told us, few competent senior military men are left -- so it is only a matter of time.

There is one good thing in our favor -- thank god -- and that BC is not another Hitler. He has the charisma for it -- but he fortunately does not have the desire for power. That must be coming from somewhere else, and I doubt we will ever find out from whom.

I really do wish he would step up to the plate and address the international finance problems -- as the other world leaders want the US to do -- but that is unfortunately not in the cards.

Now I am beginning to see part of what prophesy is all about. If you can assimilate enought information to see what the players can and cannot do -- you see what is very likely to unfold. There may be some prophets who can see the future -- but some things do not require any unusual skills.

Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug
(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:12 - ID#432214)
To quion97
Sorry Doug Casey & James Davidson were not at the conference

Charles Keeling
(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:14 - ID#344225)
A faint heart never wins a fair lady.
If you wait, you may miss the big move up. Too
many things are in the wind that can push POG
1. Unrest in the Middle East.
2. Russia in crisis NOW. Further
devaluing occuring as we talk on the bb.
3. Japan set to launch the BIG BANG in
April which could be a big bust, since
they have not done anything right for
over five years.
4. War imminent in the Persian Gulf. Our
guy BC still has a cherry! We can't
do the Desert Storm thing again. Ships
in the Persian Gulf may have problems.
Anything can happen here. BC may have
to back down, because Congress may not
allow boy Bill to act. US looses face.
Dollar drops like a rock. US could be
damned if we do, and damned if we dont.

5. EURO needs to make final decision as to
how much GOLD will back the new currency.
Announcement on this may come.

6. Japan now buying gold and selling
Treasuries. How much will they buy?
How much Treasuries will they sell?

7. Congress set to disapprove the 18 billion
for the IMF. The IMF is broke.

8. Drums are beating for Impeachment of our
boy President, BC. Stock market will
take a big hit if this happens. He may
save them the trouble and resign.

9. China hanging on right now but may
be forced to devalue in order to be
competitive. We can not bail out China.
Neither can we bail out Japan.

10.More flight to the US markets may make
the dollar rise TOOOO high. If so,
Japan crashes, forcing even more scared
money into our ( USA ) markets causing a
bubble that will break.

If any of this happens, GOLD is off to the
races, and you need to be aboard.

Worst case is we could go back and test the
lows BEFORE this happens. So what! Better
to be aboard than miss the train ( rocket ) .

Suck up the courage and buy in now.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:15 - ID#266105)

I call architecture 'frozen music.' - Goethe

Pride Goethe before a fall. ; )

...outta here

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:17 - ID#270224)
Spenc my mistake Newmont has 1.14 billion in long term debt
It lost money last year but is a low cost producer.

All of the other stocks I mentioned made money without carrying any debt.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:22 - ID#57232)
I like your summary
Charles Keeling: Not much to add to your list, except that it may not be worthwhile to put all of one's assets into gold and gold stocks, as the forces behind the 'paper' markets may have enough reserves to try to hold things in place for a bit longer. My problem is that there are so many conflicting trends right now -- a market crash could still push gold stocks to a new low -- but a war in Iraq would make oil/gold/defense skyrocket. Hence my feeling is that 'keep your powder dry' is still pretty good advice. I think we will be able to tell when the last gold bears have been shaken out.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:26 - ID#373403)
Go Indonesia Go!
Boy the wonders a debt moratorium will do for your equities market.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:27 - ID#401460)
Exchange - COMX

As of: Feb 01, 1998 @ 11:25 pm ET
Last 3042 Change +1

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:32 - ID#431263)
HERR KEETING--Just switched another $25,000 from bond funds to BENHAM GOLD EQUITY INDEX FUND in my 403b account. Now 50% invested in gold stocks. If we drop to th eold lows or lower will be going to 75%. Even moved my son's cd's to 50% gold stocks.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:37 - ID#403277)
Preacher: Oops, Con mine is in Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, not Yukon.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:42 - ID#57232)
My guess: US Markets up in AM
All: The market wave passing through Europe is generally up - so the opening prices will be up. Only S. Korea is really down. Interestingly, Russia is up more than 5%. One day rebound?

I think we need to watch Argentina -- there must be a reason why they sold all of their gold reserves.

sharefin -- where are you?

Charles Keeling
(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:47 - ID#344225)
I appreciate your words of caution. I know
the stock is really in the dumpster right now.
But WOW, what upside potential. Venerosa has
checked that one out, and I do think a lot
of his ability to spot potential.

Also, PDG did a very good *due dilligence* test
on the property in Suriname before entering the
JV. This helps me sleep better.
Severaal years ago I saw a video about the
*Pork Knockers* ( pick & shovel miners ) of the
Guayna Shield, and it impressed me. Those
old miners have been doing great down there for
decades. I think the next big gold rush is set
to be in that area. Canarc is a big time player
in the Guyana Shield area. They have the largest
and best land holdings of anyone down there.

This is the first time that modern mining methods
have been applied in that area. That piece of
SA broke off from Africa millions of years ago,
and the area it broke off from has many very
big and successful gold mines. So, it is my
belief that many low cost mines will spring up
in the Guyana Shield.

I know, it is a gamble. Thanks for your input
and your words of caution which are very much
appreciated. It will be a home run----or a
strike out, and is not for the faint of heart.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:50 - ID#431263)
GOTT IM HIMMEL--HANG SENG UP TO 10,275 over 1,000 pts. up ( 11%!! ) . All of Asia SEXPLODING to the UPSIDE! THIS IS A BUYER'S PANIC which means that the FED and IMF have done it again! NOT!!!! What fools these mortals be!

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:53 - ID#93199)
Fidelity Select Gold Charts
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious metals Charts
5 Years, 120 day, 30 day and hourly charts at:
Click on Gold Sectors

FDPMX takes the Lead! Check 5 Year chart for
relative comparison of FSAGX & FDPMX in
a BULL market.

(Sun Feb 01 1998 23:53 - ID#431263)
Herr Charles--Whatever happened to all those diamond funnels GSR was supposed to have discovered?