Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:02 - ID#330175)
Next to JFK+ FDR,Pierre Trudeau is the most over-raTED fool who ever exisTED....Socialistic NIT-WIT who did more to accelerate Canada's decline than anyone else in their history....

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:03 - ID#411259)
..... Shhhhhhhhhh, listen .....

7s -

Wait a minute here, fellow! It is a matter of some humor and comment on the trading floor that my brothers desk ( the same one shown on Moneyline ) is such a mess, and my own is so damnabley tidy. ( I made up that damn word )

Everything is silver now. I still get calls every day for gold, and am finally happy to sell it, but everyone wants silver. The more savvy folks watched ( read missed ) this last move and are moving in silver now. The only way to play this market is to layer the trades, there is just too much room above and below the market to commit at one level. There is fear to trade at these heights, but one will make zero $ if one is not in the market.

As for market sentiment. I have reported from time to time what I hear from the great "out there". I recognized that callers to a gold broker are not necessarily a scientific cross section of the market at large but, in 30 years of business, hundreds of thousands of people have called us and/or purchased from us. If someone is interested in these markets, sooner or later, they always stumble across Monex. I tend to pay attention to what I hear from clients and inquiries. In the microcosm that is precious metals, the same faces keep popping up and I still run across clients I had more than ten years ago. The feeling is that all metals will rise. Silver of course, platinum less obviously, and gold moderately.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:06 - ID#432166)
"Health Problems"
kiwi: I subscribe to a cold fusion news letter and the editor did rattle off the names of a few that had died in an ominous string. I tried to find it to give you a quote but I can't find it at the moment. The impression I have is that they died of "natural causes". However, there does seem to be a tendency towards terminal illness in this crowd and also among serious UFO researchers like Stephen Greer who contracted serious cancer after organizing a joint senate/congressional hearing on the subject last year.

My suspicion is that the field to stay away from is new forms of energy fields, cold fusion etc. Your concept sounds like standard physics so the risk you run is to be simply ignored ( i.e. lack of funding ) .

Who knows maybe they were all just a bunch of old crocks who time had come...

Blacklight somehow has avoided these risks ( so far ) . Mills has published a book with all the principles in it so maybe it is percieved that the cat is out of the bag. Maybe the answer to be safe is to publish a book once you get the concept nailed down and perhaps a few patents...

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:07 - ID#330175)
Watch it buddy-------thems fightin words
EBBBBBBBBBBB: ( . ) ---- ( . ) ----- ( . ) ....LSteve: The seakayak is for sale ( sorry ) ~~~~~~~~~~

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:07 - ID#301318)
Hey, I like a good mystery. At least I can work on a mystery unlike the price of yellow.

Ah, don't tell me, you prefer the comics section?
BTW, what the hell does the "E" stand for anyway?

John Disney__A
(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:09 - ID#24135)
It takes a village p!ss me off
For ROR and Highrise
RoR's little essay sounds good but isnt. The problem
arises where we take the goodies from those that made
them and give them to those that did nothing other than
get born. WHO does the distribution??? And how do
we avoid PATRONAGE on their part. Answer we cant and
we dont. Hillary Clinton is a monument to those who
want to establish themselves as the middle men between
the haves and have nots and benefit hugely as a result.
Their medium of exchange are words like "caring"
and "social justice" and "children"... their desires
are POWER in the extreme..
The little conundrum that you revel in has spawned
the most cynical power mad gang of rats ever. Want to
check me out. Turn on your TV and take a look.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:10 - ID#330175)
Flash gordon
( E ) stands for idiot and actually I prefer the SPORTS section

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:12 - ID#401237)
Flash (about ANOTHER)
He lives 3 doors down from OJ and around the corner from Monica's Dad' house.

ANOTHER = Dennis Rodman

Originally from the mideast sandy area his ancestors helped build the pyramid of Cheops @ Giza 5000+ years ago.

It is fun to guess and speculate about that Another isn't it I bet he or she is lovein it.

The Fertile Crescent = Garden of Eden = IRAQ
Mid Eastern who thinks the Chineese are the ones with the GOLD!

What time of day does he post. Chineese, Mid East, Americas?

By the way when he uses quotes who is he Quoting?
Good Night
Thanks all - even Democratic Socialist ROR
Is that what Clinton is?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:12 - ID#372344)
@ PREDICTION....RUSSIA MKT IS 'NEXT' TO COLLAPSE....deja-vu and much more....
While having a nice glass of wine, I remembered back in the 70's
that at the same time that Gold was molving up sharply so were
interest rates, the higher Gold went up the higher interest rates went up,
I had a CSB that yielded 22%, inflation was about 15% annually......
at the same time of course the US$ was taking a pounding.....
Someone mentioned that wage inflation, which is really the key to
an inflationary spiral, making up a large % of the inflation rate, has
been on a tear, moving up more than 4%, and that historically for over
40 years now,the only way it was ever brought "under control" was with high interest rates and a recession.....are we in for deja-vu all over again....Wall ST. is "BETTING" on steady or lower rates and a slow
down, thus the markets latest moves....I have a feeling they may be in
for a rude "SURPRISE"....I think the economy is picking up now and
all those "cheap?" Asian goods will turn on the US and other consumers
and thus the US trade deficit will BALOOON to ober 200 Billion $ on
a very tight LABOUR market ( never corrected without recession, Iraq
complications, BJ's ordeal ) and the US$ takes a hard dive....
and to prop-up the US$ AG raises rates, Gold soars....deja-vu....
I believe we are at the start of" Contrarian Investments" GOLD!!!
and all other commodities that are out of favor...The US market and bonds are at high risk....80% of the world does want Iraq bombed.....
OH ya Russia....Deep problems, I believe that is why Boris has
been so vocal recently....World War 3 etc....The big winners here
are going to be Palladium and Platinum and Gold in that order....
AG has scared congress into giving 18 Bill to the IMF.....Another
Dem. Governor R.Romino has admitted to an affair unlike BJ
with a young Girl but it was not "sexual". bjs are not considered sex in the US...I think Clinton is going to be remembered by history as the President who popularized bj's... all of course JMHV......

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:13 - ID#330175)
CAPER passed out

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:16 - ID#345268)
Battle Mountain Gold (BMG)

Good news for BMG investors. The company lost only $30 mil. in 1997 ( which equates to 13 cents / share ) .

Stock holder's equity was down by $40 mil. in 1997, to $490.3 mil.

Consider the red ink in most of the mining stocks, this one did well.

More info on:

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:16 - ID#330175)
HighRiser................and I should of known(STUPID MOIS)
Why of course,he's Dennis Rodman~~~~~~~~~just look @ his doooo

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:24 - ID#39845)
contact monica yourself at orifice of defence

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:25 - ID#345268)
@ John Disney, - re:00:09

Calmate senior, don't get upset,

... is there a way we can profit out of it?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:25 - ID#215379)
Why would anyone want to buy stock in BMG that loses money instead of
of a stock like ASL that has a Record year ??

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:27 - ID#411259)
JD -

I was attacked by an idiot today. The guy took enormous umbrage that he could not buy gold for the price he sees on the TV.

Ted & Avacado Boy - who mask genuine affection with manly banter -

Speaking of the sea kayak, I saw a PBS special about some offshore kayak maniacs who paddle the caves of the central California coast. These guys would be off Big Sur somewhere and wait for the swell to drop and expose the submerged entrance to the cave. They would paddle like mad and be inside the cave as the swell rose and the entrance was cut off. They brought a camera inside and there were times that the kayaker had to roll to keep from being squashed against the roof by the rising water.

I have an inflatable kayak that I take out on Newport Bay in the summer, and have struck up more than one conversation with a pretty lass on a million dollar yacht, from my $200 boat. Been on the deck of the yacht before and the funny thing is, it works better from the kayak*.

*Reprinted with permission from the author: "Courting and Mating Rituals in Southern California Coastal Waterways, Volume VIII".

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:30 - ID#411259)
..... John Disney__A (It takes a village p!ss me off) .....

That's the funniest thing I've seen all day. Hee Heeeeeeee.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:30 - ID#250121)
Clink Clink...

Why, that's right nice of you and Au Producer. I hope to one day return the gesture, and to stop splitting infinitives, not.

Now, RJ, that's not nice, I also expressed my concern about your little blossoms.. But did I pout when I told you about our drought and no-one said, "what about your tomatoes, what about your pumpkin?" No I didn't. Poor little vegies, withering on the vine, deprived of the illumination their little lives might exhalt in were they to be eaten by the aurator, ( recipes always welcome ) . Do you care? No. Did anyone care? No. They're just wizzened old cabbages to you. Amigo, I *feel* for your blossoms, I would spread my body to windward to help you shield your little blossoms from the wrath of this btard child weather, I would take giant spikes and drive them through my feet with one of Ted's Mallets so I could shelter you better and know my life had some meaning. Care you not for my little zuccini?

Syd Snail sends his slime

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:32 - ID#228128)
I don't know if anybody else answered your question about the silver content of a quarter, but I found this in James Blanchard's book Silver Bonanza. Ninety % silver dimes, quarters, and halfs were minted at 0.7234 troy oz. silver per $1.00 face value. For junk silver, the market counts them at 0.715 troy oz. per $1.00 face value. A silver quarter would be the above value divided by 4, a dime divided by 10, etc. Blanchard's book although published in 1993 ( revised edition 1995 ) is still timely and has lots of information about various forms of silver investment. I wonder why Blanchard who has been so bullish on silver has been mute on the topic recently?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:36 - ID#39845)
apologies (and it was a big booboo)
"Orifice of the Secretary of the Department of Defence"

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:37 - ID#330175)
clank clank
Say it ain't so Aurator.....Away ta search for RJ's caves ( and women )

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:38 - ID#345268)
@ dirt

Why Battle Mountain vs. Ashanti? Because one day you may wake up and find out that your claims in Africa are gone, confiscated by unstable governments, and you own nothing at all.

At least with BMG you will have something left ( IMHO )

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:41 - ID#224243)
BMG lost only $30M?...
What about NEM? Record production...Record earnings...Lowest producer in North America...Undervalued! POG rules and non-hedged production at less than spot price is where to be right now.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:42 - ID#57232)
Alternative Energy - short life? Yes probably more often than one would like.
GDF,Kiwi,Allen ( USA ) : Thanks to all of you for alerting me to this interesting "Blacklight Power, Inc." site. The owner of this site is a 1986 graduate of Harvard Medical School, and his credentials otherwise seem respectable. I will examine his pdf files this weekend, and try to find holes in his argument. Yes -- I also strongly suspect that some inventors of alternative energy devices have been eliminated, most by financial ruin, some by more violent methods. I think the 'net' increases the likelihood of their survival -- or at least the survival of their ideas. Part of the fault lies with the inventors themselves, as those who wish to keep their ideas 'secret' for personal gain are most likely to be targets of suppression or? But - it is nearly impossible to suppress an idea once it has been disseminated on the net. It is clear to me that ideas such as this are so controversial for obvious reasons, there must be full disclosure of the concepts.

I now know the Pons and Fleischmann stuff was not hokum and that it was not 'cold fusion'. As a MIT study showed, the energy phenomenon appears to be of nuclear origin even though the expected radioactive decay products were not identified.

This fellow's energy source is hard to believe -- somehow associated with 'hydrino' formation -- a very low energy form of hydrogen. If he is correct, there must be a ( catalytic? ) link between 'chemical' forces and 'nuclear' forces. After Pons and Fleischman, this can no longer be ridiculed. There is also some credence to the theory that lower energy states of 'hydrogen' could exist, as one could imagine the proton in helium or other higher molecular weight elements as consisting of 'hydrinos' and neutrons. Hydrogen would then consist of 'hydrinos', electrons, and lots of energy. But -- classical physics would tell us that there is an energy barrier of millions of degrees farenheit -- preventing this energy release from occurring except inside a stellar furnace, or in the hydrogen bomb -- the 'Lawson criterion' for the purists out there. If there were a catalyst of some kind, imagine the significance of accessing the energy locked inside the hydrogen atom, say in a molecule of water. Our supply of energy would be virtually limitless, and the stars would truly be ours!

And -- we could use oil for its rightful use -- not as a wasteful energy source -- but for making plastics and other synthetic chemicals.

Our biggest hurdle in this area lies behind the theory of 'free' or 'zero-point' energy, and the solid state phsyics of the Pons-Fleischmann effect. Lastly, there is one other point all of you who are interested in this area should think about. What if practical 'free energy' devices were available -- so that virtually everyone had a nearly limitless source of free energy? Is the human race ready for this? This could be an even greater threat to the stability of the human race than nuclear energy. I think our ticket to the stars requires an energy source like this -- but is our civilization mature enough to handle this? I don't know. I would like to believe that devices such as this will have built-in 'limiters' so that the energy release would be more like a super-chemical reaction, rather than nuclear. But -- science doesn't work that way, does it? Perhaps there is a good reason why we don't have limitless energy at this time in our stage of mental development.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:42 - ID#411259)
..... Aurator (notice I capitalize your handle? You have Self esteem probs???) .....

Sorry JD you got bested..


I admit to a certain self absorption with my limes, I'm working on it. If recollection serves, I have run across a tomato or two from the Under Continent of genus long leggus and perfectus tanus, and if tomatoes of this caliber are thirsting and have naught but zucchinis to comfort them in these dark hours, I will, of course put down my worldly pursuits and fly to your side. We WILL comfort these tomatoes.

Don't worry, I will bring the limes.


(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:48 - ID#372344)
@ Russia Mrkt collapse......pd,pt,au but, on the other hand....
If it does get bad enough will the Russians have to sell their pd,pt,au???
of course this effect would be temporary, since they probably would
not have enough to pay the miners, so production would be at a standstill
until "things" recovered.....1-2-3 years ?.....Russians are supposed to hold vast amounts of cash in US$, are they all real?....very interesting......

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:52 - ID#39845)
Negative Light
JTF. From what I have read when describing the nature of light
in formula, one can not describe light without simultaneously
describing negative light. Is this true?
If i am an idiot, mea culpa.
What is negative light?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 00:57 - ID#345268)
@ puttonce

The issue was that BMG did not lose that much compared with other big losers in N. America, like ECO et. al. My intention was not to compare BMG with the prime producers ( ABX, NEM etc., ) but with the less "well to do" miners.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:00 - ID#42365)
Would that mean we would have flashdarks instead of flashlights?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:07 - ID#153102)
Thanks. I think that's pre 1966? coinage being described. I don't thin current coin is even legal tender, much less lawful money. Somebody posted its content as copper and nickel earlier.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:07 - ID#250121)
See ya..
RJ, self-esteem problems? pehaps, or just a fan of ee cummings.
Hot tomatoes, like homegrown tomatoes have to be plucked and eaten when they are just right. Id be happy to be by your side at that moment----if I could get these blamed pick axes outa my feet. What happened? had a little doze, a little dream, next thing Im in a freaking blizzard some lunatic prospector comes out of the snow - says "dont move" in a broad Scots lilt and nails my feet to his claim! With a smile and an "Och Aye" he disappeared into the golden dawn.

Ted fret not brother from the frozen North, Evthings gonna be all right.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:10 - ID#227238)
The repartee this evening is of the uncommonly funny kind. JD, RJ, Salty, and G-Nutz with his flashdark. LOL.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:21 - ID#227238)
Mozel: I think I know how you would define the term but, is there even a commonly understood meaning of the word "legal" in our system today? A definition that is even remotely a constant?

It would seem to me to be made of rubber. Alternately stretched and compressed, by turns, as political expedience would dictate. Much like our "living document" the constitution.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:22 - ID#393224)
limes,tomatos,avocados and zuccinis???
Is it OK if I mention silver and/or gold on this site?

I am missing my doorstops dreadfully. Just couldn't help myself when I sent them to the pot yesterday. I thought my timing was short-term very good ( $7.71 ) minus a HUGE commission. My question is this. Any Antipodeans out there know of a good place to sell silver and not get wacked for 'melt-down' fees + 'volatility' fees?? Haggis--mate--where to sell the stuff for a good price??

Am gonna trade me silver proceeds $$ very soon for something slightly more portable. Haven't decided on the yeller or the 'other' silvery stuff-- as I think both are long-term goers. Bought a beautiful little Panamanian platinum Balboa? the other day--you Yanks/rebs ever heard of 'em? Also some Mexican 50 and 20 peso coins and some Bahamas Charlie and Di wedding gold coins and an Austrian 50 Corona--amazing what you find 'down under'!! Was offered some Arabic gold coins with nary a word of English on em--coulda been sanskrit for all I knew and didn't have me gold coins of the world bible with me --so passed em up. Gonna have fun trading a gold coin for a new Mercedes when I'm 60 or so.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:26 - ID#302251)
Date: Fri Feb 06 1998 23:15
Lurker 777 ( Ziva ) ID#317247:
Do you post anywhere else on the net? I would be interested in visiting
chat sites that post about conspiracies, war and Doom and Gloom stuff.
you know of any such sites on the net would you please post the address

Lurker 777

No, I dont post anywhere else anymore.
I could not find anywhere else on the Internet
people with such high caliber
as in this discussion group.
So why waste my time somewhere else?
Beside, I am getting too old.

There are millions of conspiracies sites,
to replace the News Media we used to have.

I dont read conspiracies anymore.
Instead I listen to CNN,
it is very convenient
as I can almost always trust that the truth
is almost always the opposite of what I hear on CNN

If I have to recommend to you just one URL:

It would have been easier for you to comprehend
the gravity of what you read there,
if you had forty years experience behind you,
in reading and evaluating such material.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:38 - ID#227238)
Nick @C: "Gonna have fun trading a gold coin for a new Mercedes when I'm 60 or so." ....... I trust and hope the event is but short months ( and not years ) away.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:38 - ID#57232)
Negative Light -- my energy needs a few hours of recharging (sleep)
Hedgehog: I'm not sure what you are referring to, unless you are referring to the fact that Maxwell's equations are 'time reversible'. This permits solutions that can be standing waves, as well as solutions that can be described as scalar and vector solutions, as noted by E.T. Whittaker, a famous mathematical physicist that lived when the 'aether' was considered to exist. Unforunately I do not have the actual 1903 reference title, however, it cites another paper by the author in Math. Ann., Vol. LVII.,pp 335-355, 1903. I will look for the other references if you are interested. Incidentally, the point Whittaker may have been making is that 'standing waves' exist as a solution to Maxwells equations, hence one could derive some understanding of an aether that surrounded the earth ( if it existed ) . I have reason to believe it might, and that the reason Michelson did not find the motion of the aether was that it is dragged around by the earth. Hence -- no aether 'drag'. Now the aether could be related to the scalar potential of Whittaker, and what is now called the 'zero-point' energy.

I also vaguely remember a reference to positrons being considered as time-reversed electrons, something Feynmann referred to as well. All matter could be considered as 'standing waves' of some kind of radiation, similar to that of maxwells equations.

'Negative light' might also relate to the idea of 'virtual photons' surrounding us -- the 'free energy' or 'zero point' energy. This may be a rather loose association, as the 'zero point' energy fluctations are probably more likely to be virtual elementary particles of some kind -- not necessarily photons.

I hope I did not confuse you -- the area I am discussing is poorly understood by many physicists, although there are undoubtedly some who understand it better than I. It is unfortunate the E. T. Whittaker is no longer alive -- as I think he would have some interesting things to say.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:42 - ID#345268)

LURKER 777 sent you to your favorite site, where you belong.

Listen to your Nostradamus charlatan and you will go broke!

That New Age Horse s--t is not popular at Kitco. Our interest is p*r*o*f*i*t*s.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:45 - ID#153102)
Lawful is rational. The rule of law is a rule of reason. However, the definition of martial law is no law. They make it up as they go. Most people find themselves in a martial law venue in court nowadays. After all, we do not pay taxes with lawful money and we have volunteered ourselves into this venue for greenback, social security, and other benefits. There is nothing fixed in the martial law venue and therefor nothing fixed about the meaning of the word "legal" for most in most encounters with government nowadays. Unconstitutional and nonconstitutional are not the same thing.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:48 - ID#57232)
was that a scottish geologist or a scottish prospector?
aurator: i am also a fan of ee cummings, though i haven't read him in a long time! looks like you need a new pair of shoes -- el nino effect? -- or was it haggis that brought the cold flakey white stuff with him?

now -- didn't the wooly mammoth extinction occur in a blaze of white about 10-12,000 years ago? did they find any frozen scottish kilts with the mammoths?

Take Care, AuRatoR!

Z-Z-Z Time For Me.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:49 - ID#250121)

being somewhat pedestrian myself, the bulk ( Some big spender, me ) of my gold is in JM 9999 bars. for the simple reason of liquidity. I always bet two quotes from JM, buy & Sell, They buy their bars without any worrry. The rest of the cool stuff is for fun, for a laugh, aha, ha ha..
BTW didja see a post during your walkabout, I stopped ( I hope ) the scandalous migration of maples across the Tazzie. You can have kramds, chum, but the 9999 stays with salty, the auracious one.

Z, never learns, huh?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 01:50 - ID#393224)
New mercedes for a gold coin
G'day Earl. I'm being realistic, mate. That is my 10-year plan. One gold coin for a new Merx. Two gold coins for a nice bungalo by the sea. Ten gold coins for a new helicopter. And twenty gold coins for an ounce of silver. Cheers, Nick.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:01 - ID#39845)
Thankyou very much JTF for your time. I should have done my due diligence
before asking the question. I will refer to my source and get back to you. He has also thrown open the question of some formula being incompatable with what we know today. esp. spin. Also get back
to you on that. I could be wrong on that also, but threshold physics
discussions can make whisky vapourise.
Many thanks.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:02 - ID#250121)
it's a question of relative value.
Thoroughly realistic, imho.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:02 - ID#393224)
G'day Auracious. Mate, I must admit that a few of those adulterated krands have snuk into my stash. Why they wanna ruin a good coin with copper is beyond me. "Makes em tougher" they say. Like you're gonna use em to buy a loaf of bread!! Keep yer maples, mate. Aussie nuggets are beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeautiful!! I like the little bars also--cute little things. I hope Mercedes Benz don't have gold contacts on their electronics. We may have to buy a Merx and then melt it down for the 'you-know-what' content!!!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:06 - ID#250121)
sorry aboyut the missing "i"
Nick@C just make sure the flamin merc thing is Y2K OK.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:06 - ID#345268)
@ Nick

Yes, the catalytic convertor one day may be worth more than the car.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:11 - ID#57232)
G'Nite all! - esp downunder from upover.
Myrmidon: Funny you should make that comment about catalytic converters. The catalytic converter on my blazer is already worth more than my blazer! I better take a quick look under it to see if the little beads are still there -- have a locking gas cap -- but nothing on the converter! G'Nite all!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:14 - ID#39845)
Oh boy here we go!!!!
Saturday 7 February, 1998 ( 5:50pm AEDT )

More than 10-thousand Indonesian security personnel have
paraded in central Jakarta, saying they're ready for any
unrest in the lead-up to next month's General Assembly,
which will select the next President.

Ginny Stein reports, the troops were inspected by
Indonesia's top military commander.

It was a display aimed at showing the strength of the
Armed forces. Riot Police, soldiers and special troops all
lined up. The Military commander inspected the troops and
was given the same message over and over....we are ready
the soldiers replied. Military authorities have warned they
won't take any chances and will deal firmly with any
attempt to disturb security during the general assembly. It
was a message that was repeated today, President Suharto
was expected to be returned as president for a seventh
consecutive term, although doubt remains as to who will be
named as his deputy and successor. That uncertainty
working in tandem with Indonesia's economic problems in
fuelling concerns about social unrest.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:15 - ID#22956)
Bring home the gold!!!!! USA! Nagano

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:17 - ID#227238)
Nick@C: "... and 20 gold coins for an ounce of silver." ????? Huh? Did I miss something there?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:30 - ID#393224)
Catalytic converters
Am leaving now for the basketball---BUT---- for any experts out there--How much platinum goes into a catalytic converter on a new automobile?? How much on earlier models?? Is JTF correct??? Can the C.C. be worth more than the vehicle.

Cheers from Nick's Auto Scrap Yard. "You keep the car!! All we want is the c.c.!!!!"

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:31 - ID#227238)
Mozel: In a previous post you touched on martial law. I'm not sure I understand the significance of what you are saying.

I think you are intimating, hell, saying that we, the US, have been under martial law for some decades. Hmmmmm?

When time and inclination permit, I would appreciate an expansion on that theme.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:43 - ID#252150)

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:44 - ID#39845)
bomb em-to-what ????
Saturday 7 February, 1998 ( 2:22pm AEDT )

The United States has threatened to bomb Iraq into what it
called, "a state of harmlessness."

President Bill Clinton issued the threat after talks at the
White House with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, the
only Western leader to support U-S readiness to use military
force against Iraq.

Mr Clinton's threat comes as Russia says prospects were
bleak for a peaceful solution.

Moscow is trying to mediate in the crisis over Saddam
Hussein's refusal to grant United Nations inspectors full
access to suspected weapons sites, a condition of the 1991
Gulf War settlement.

Meanwhile, the military build-up in the Gulf is continuing,
with 50 more U-S aircraft due to arrive in the coming days.

Britain is sending a further 8 R-A-F Tornado ground-attack

(Sat Feb 07 1998 02:58 - ID#153102)
Earl re: martial law
Maybe you missed this post. When they say "war" on cancer, "war" on poverty, "war" on drugs, the polticians are invoking "war" powers.

mozel ( Mining the gold of true history ) ID#153102:

Old Soldier ( Veterans March )
IDT 23:21 I am no expert on the Veterans March action. From what I do
know, it was not a proud moment for the Army or FDR who ordered it. Your
point is well taken but I think it is one thing to take police action
against a group squatting in the capitol and quite another to support a
martial law that is perceived to be unjust and unnecessary and directed
against the people as a whole."

In my true history of America it is recorded that Hoover was President when the WWI
Bonus Marchers were driven from their peaceful encampment by detachments of the
US Army under the command of Douglas McArthur. It is also recorded there ( as well
as in the book American Caesar ) that McArthur exceeded the order issued by
Hoover and the widely shown film of veterans in the depths of the Depression being
denied their right to petition the government and roughly treated as well virtually
guaranteed FDR's landslide election. Considering his circumstances thereafter and his
ambition and his mother's political activity on behalf of his career, a conspiracy minded
observor might suspect McArthur exceeded Hoover's order by design and for
purposes of demonstrating certain facts to the nation. A kind of 1930's Waco, if you

IDT ( Veterans March ) ID#228128:
Old Soldier - I can think of one example where the U.S. military turned
on its own, the Veterans March on Washington during the great
depression. Any group with too much power can become a threat. The
founding fathers gave a lot of thought to a balance of power in
government and the civilian control of the military, much to our good

It is also recorded in my true history of America that the myth of "civilian control of the
military" was long cherished by Americans despite its untruth. Old Soldier will be given
credit there for truthfully saying the American military "support a martial law that is
perceived to be unjust and unnecessary and directed against the people as a whole."
Martial law does not mean what most Americans imagine. Its meaning in American law
was explained by the Supreme Court in ex parte Milligan ( 1866 ) , a fateful decision in
which the court found three distinct types of martial law to be authorized by the
Constitution. Old Soldier is chastised in my true hisory for the propaganda phrase "the
Union ... in the Civil War", U.S. a phrase which misinforms us about our true history.

The Union predates the Constitution. In fact, the Union predates the Declaration of
Independence. The States that walked out of Congress never declared any dissolution
of the Union. In their declaration of Causes, every southern State affirmed the Union.
In the War of Northern Aggression, the Federal Army and Navy of, by, and for the
federal government placed the military power over the Constitution and over the civil
authority in the States where it remains to this day. The contest in 1860-65 was
between the civil authority of the States and the United States military. "The people of
Indiana have been ground hard under the military authority and power within the last
three or four years, but it was borne because it was hoped that when the war would be
closed the military power would be withdrawn from the State. Under this bill it may be
established permanently upon the people by a body of men protected by the military
power of the Government."
Senator T.A. Hendricks of Indiana quoted in HISTORY OF THE THIRTY-NINTH
A.M., p.112. Nor, was Indiana the exception. The entire civil government of Maryland
was put out of office and the Writ of Habeas Corpus was suspended in all of the
States. No governor, no civil authority, could protect any citizen anywhere from the
Army. Nowhere in the Constitution is this power granted to the federal by the States,
the federal military being only empowered to enter a State to put down rebeliion at the
request of the civil authority of the State.

Thus, the American military has enabled federal transgression of the guarantee of the
Petition of Right, a guarantee of freedom from martial law.
"The Court believes that the place to begin this discussion,
before coming to the vital question of constitutional
interpretation, is in English law and the development of the
rights and liberties of the English people. The rights and
liberties of England became our inheritance. The Constitution of
the United States and the constitutions of the states contain
provisions that come directly from that source.

Almost all of the states adopted "reception statutes" receiving
into state law the English common law and acts of Parliament as
they existed as of a certain date--which was usually 1507, 1620,
or 1776--except to the extent that they were contrary to our
federal or state constitutions or statutes or were contrary to
our form of government... The Petition of Right was one of the foundation stones of the
English Constitution." US District Court Order Clinton v Jones

The Petition of Right was the result of the imposition of martial law by Charles I. In it
freedom from martial law is guaranteed as a right. This guarantee is part of our
inheritance of liberties in the common law. It is also written into almost all State
Constitutions. This right in America has been and is now transgressed by "a body of
men protected by the military power of the Government". In 1610 using military might
Charles I seized the Treasury from Parliament, which cost him his head. In 1933
backed up by the US military, FDR seized all the gold in the United States and by so
doing put the military over the civil authority and deprived the civil authority in the
States of all means of constitutional revenue because ( Article 1 Section 10 ) , "No
State shall ... make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debt". By
ratifying FDR's acts, Congress imposed martial law on the States as it had done
previously during and after 1860-65 and by the 14th Amendment.

Ross Perot: "This country is at a point in time, when Washington does what ever it
wants to, and the People have no control of their government" The two great powers
of government, the sword and the purse, are unchained in the federal government
precisely as Patrick Henry foretold. Only those meager weapons in the hands of
unorganized civilians stand between us and complete despostism.

"Date: Thu Jan 29 1998 23:10Earl ( Conscription? Si. ) ID#227238:
Oldman: In the days when a professional military was being proposed, ie,
zero conscription, not enough attention was devoted to the clear
implications a dedicated profession of arms CAN have. Not the least of
which you have already alluded to. Now we are witness to reports out of
the Marine Corps that the American civilian is being denigrated as a
routine part of their training.
There are certainly ample reasons for doing so and most of them
justified but at the same time it would seem to me to be a dangerous
practice on the part of those who, on some bright tomorrow, may be the
only people able to bear arms in the US.
I have always believed that we, as a nation, made a horrible mistake by
expunging the draft. There is a certain quality of safety in knowing
that a substantial number those in the of the armed forces are not there
by choice. "

In my true history of America, it is recorded that the federalization of the National
Guard, the organized militia of the States, was the horrible mistake and that
conscription in Europe was never any guard against tyranny at any time in history. The
armies of all of the European tyrants were filled with conscripts and Hitler's Wehrmacht
was conscripted. By contrast, the English always had a professional army. But, it was
an Army that was subordinate to the civil authority at all times after the Petition of

Military supremacy to the civil authority in the States is doctrine in the US Army. This
fact can be verified from documentation published on the net. In fact, agreements are
published as well for the military occupation of the States by former East Bloc country
forces in the event the US military needs other military assistance to control the
American civilian population.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 03:22 - ID#250121)
in vino veritas
Thank the Ludd I'm not an american.
and I'm sure you say "same to you fella"

(Sat Feb 07 1998 03:46 - ID#153102)
i admire those posts of yours as well.
there's only one thing better than PM markets and that's PM people.
wishing you all the blessings of liberty and self-government ( and untaxed beverages ) of your desires, i bid you good night.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 04:07 - ID#250121)
jest beautiful
"there's only one thing better than PM markets and that's PM people. "

(Sat Feb 07 1998 04:16 - ID#39845)
Aussie wanker eats dirt before press
Monica throws Shark off course


GREG Norman denied yesterday that the woman at the centre of the latest
White House sex scandal, Monica Lewinsky, visited his Florida home
along with President Bill Clinton last March.

As one of the world's top golfer was yesterday drawn into the imbroglio,
Norman told a packed media conference in Sydney that apart from two
Secret Service women "the only other women in my house that night were
my wife and my daughter".

"I should never have been included in this deal. Look at this, it's open
slather," he said.

"We're not here to talk about golf ... Just because I know the President of
the United States they think I might be fair game."

Norman, who is playing in his eponymous tournament, admitted that being
drawn into the investigation affected his concentration.

"I wasn't in a great mood today, to be quite honest," he said after shooting
a second-round 73 to put him seven strokes behind the leader.

Norman was drawn into the investigation after Kenneth Starr, the
prosecutor chasing allegations of sexual misconduct against Mr Clinton,
subpoenaed videotapes of the President's visit from a Florida television

Until the latest bizarre twist, the visit was most remembered because Mr
Clinton required crutches after stumbling on Norman's front steps and
injuring his knee.

Norman said he received a fax at his office yesterday morning to say "the
tapes had been reviewed and were clear".

Before he left for Australia, the US media trespassed on his property on
three occasions purporting to have information about the night Mr Clinton
stayed at his home, he said.

"I was quite upset about it really because there's no truth to it. It really is
media fabrication. They're trying to find something to keep talking about it.
It ( the alleged Clinton-Lewinsky affair ) has a life of its own.

"I can categorically deny that Monica Lewinsky was ever there; that my
aeroplane ever went to pick her up; that there were other people at my
house. It really is a sad reflection on the media really."

Norman said Mr Starr had "every right to go subpoena anyone he wants to
subpoena to get to the bottom of it. I'm just telling you I have never seen
Monica Lewinsky. She's never been on my property in Florida or

Norman, who counts Mr Clinton as a personal friend, said the media was
obsessed with "digging it up and digging it up".

"I feel sorry for the President. I don't think anybody should go through this
scrutiny. I think what he does in his private life's his business. And I think
he should just go on and run the country the way he wants to run the

(Sat Feb 07 1998 04:16 - ID#302251)

"The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional
morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to
one person cannot coexist with a serious affection for another.
Everybody knows that this is untrue."

(Sat Feb 07 1998 04:26 - ID#302251)

Date: Sat Feb 07 1998 01:42
Myrmidon ( @ ZIVA ) ID#345268:

............... That New Age Horse s--t is not popular at Kitco.
Our interest is p*r*o*f*i*t*s.


"In this possibly terminal phase of human existence,
democracy and freedom are more than just ideals to be valued--
they may be essential to survival."


(Sat Feb 07 1998 04:40 - ID#39845)
Golf and Sex
The Bill brings Monica but Greg brings BIG BERTHA.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 04:52 - ID#22882)
Buffett's Roots

How his dad The Honorable US Congressman Howard Buffett felt about honest money.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 04:53 - ID#22882)
Buffett's Roots

How his dad The Honorable US Congressman Howard
Buffett felt about honest money.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 04:59 - ID#302251)

Ross Perot: "This country is at a point in time,
when Washington does what ever it wants to,
and the People have no control of their government"
The two great powers of government,
the sword and the purse,
are unchained in the federal government
precisely as Patrick Henry foretold.
Only those meager weapons
in the hands of unorganized civilians
stand between us and complete despostism.


Date: Sat Feb 07 1998 02:58
mozel ( Earl re: martial law ) ID#153102:

(Sat Feb 07 1998 05:15 - ID#22882)
Selected quote by Buffetts dad

(Sat Feb 07 1998 05:22 - ID#39845)
Saturday 7 February, 1998 ( 8:15pm AEDT )

The head of the International Monetary Fund has defended
the organisation against criticism that its Asian rescue
packages reward and encourage reckless investment

I-M-F Managing Director, Michel Camdessus, says the
notion that the availability of IMF programs encourages
countries to behave recklessly is not very plausible.

Speaking to reporters in New York, Mr Camdessus said no
country would deliberately court such a crisis even if it
thought international assistance would be forthcoming.

Observers say his challenge appears aimed at Congressional
critics who are threatening to block a request for 18-billion
dollars to shore up IMF resources.

Mr Camdessus also praised a deal between South Korea's
government, unions and business to help speed up reforms,
increase foreign interest in mergers and acquisitions and
enhance South Korea's international credit ratings.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 05:25 - ID#39845)
Saturday 7 February, 1998 ( 8:14pm AEDT )

Australian Prime Minister, John Howard, has been asked by
the United States if Australia would support a military strike
against Iraq.

However, as James Walker reports Mr Howard was
non-committal when he received a call from U-S President
Bill Clinton.

A spokesman for the Prime Minister said Mr Clinton called
Mr Howard from the Prsesident's retreat, Camp David
after a dinner in honour of British Prime Minister, Tony
Blair. Mr Howard, at Kirribbilli House in Sydney, spoke to
Mr Clinton for about 20 minutes. The President asked if
Australia would make a contribution, if any military action
should eventuate against Iraq in the Gulf. The Prime
Minister did not give a direct answer, replying it was a
matter that would have to be discussed in the next Cabinet
meeting on Tuesday.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 05:37 - ID#39845)

(Sat Feb 07 1998 06:04 - ID#39845)
We dont need the Greenback anymore.
Saturday 7 February, 1998 ( 9:35pm AEDT )

Singapore has agreed to a proposal to promote the use of
Southeast Asian currencies in regional trade after talks
between Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad and
counterpart, Goh Chok Tong.

The agreement comes after Malaysian Prime Minister,
Mahathir Mohamad, arrived in Singapore earlier today for
wide ranging talks on the Asian economic crisis.

The talks are part of Dr Mahathir's efforts to win support for
replacing the U-S dollar with local currencies in regional

Dr Mahathir held talks with Philippine President Fidel
Ramos in Manila yesterday and Thai Prime Minister Chuan
Leekpai a day earlier after talks with Indonesian President
Suharto last month.

Regional currencies have fallen sharply against the dollar
since Thailand floated the baht last July and triggered off
regional currency turmoil.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 06:08 - ID#39845)
just a hunch
The big news will come from Reuters because they will want to
control economic collateral damage.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 06:17 - ID#398105)
Hedgehog (We dont need the Greenback anymore.)
A sign of the times, lets wave the US Dollar goodbye ?!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 06:25 - ID#39845)
What do ya reckon Haggis_A
We can get along just fine without the $US. Let the Yanks sort it all out, or maybe they can throw a joker into the pack.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 06:32 - ID#39845)
And if you use local currencies
You better have sh!t load.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 06:53 - ID#26793)
Silver lawsuit may be dropped voluntarily

(Sat Feb 07 1998 06:56 - ID#248180)
@Hedgehog - US$
Thought for a minute you were the only one on this site. It is a good and brave move that Indonisia and Malaysia have taken, I hope it works and continues to grow. After all the US$ is only perception of value. The trading world has got along without for the better part of 6000 years.
Irac vs USA: It is a pity that John Howard did not say to Slick Willie on his call to arms and support of Australia against Irac: Sorry Willie count us out this time we are too busy trading sheep, cattle, wheat, barley, steel and gold for oil with Irac and Iran. They should be our trading partners. What value was our support during desert storm when the idiot RJ Hawke said sure George count us in and then sent 3 tug boats and fine young Australian men to protect Exon interests. Australia should position itself as do the Swiss, 'TRADE WITH EVERY COUNTRY, STORE THEIR WEALTH, AND BECOME A MEETING PLACE FOR WARING PARTNERS. Can't remember when anyone ever attacked the Swiss?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 06:58 - ID#26793)
Moody's downgrades Philippine banks

(Sat Feb 07 1998 07:04 - ID#330175)
@Cape Breton
Good mornin all!------watch the swearin Hedgehog~~~~~

(Sat Feb 07 1998 07:09 - ID#26793)
Is one of these two banks in trouble?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 07:12 - ID#26793)
Hi Ted. Fine sunny morning 28F, going to 40+, on my way to pick up Barron's.

JOE Smith
(Sat Feb 07 1998 07:27 - ID#24869)
Haggis things are hotting up downunder
Strong rumours that some silver went to wrong hands. i hear some 500 kG went missing -- can this be tru

(Sat Feb 07 1998 07:29 - ID#330175)
Mornin Donald from SUNNY CAPE BRETON ya send it up this way when yer done with it as I cancelled my interactive Barrons in preperation of leaving SUNNY Cape Breton...If we could just get one cloud ( EB: Do You have a scrip for some good SUN glasses?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 07:30 - ID#330175)
Would YOU buy K-Mart???(this is a horrendous mistake)

(Sat Feb 07 1998 07:34 - ID#330175)
Thank God I don't live in CALIFORNIA

(Sat Feb 07 1998 07:38 - ID#330175)
More Jimmy Buffett 'Silver Stuff'

(Sat Feb 07 1998 07:39 - ID#330175)
to Ted
Been nice talkin to ya mate but gotta go see Eddie~~~~~~~~~

(Sat Feb 07 1998 08:13 - ID#26793)
Silver Stories
Barron's is full of bullish silver stories today. Alan Abelson calling the Buffett move a possible call of a stock market top. Sheryl Einhorn , page 24, has a great chart of the Dow/Silver Ratio from 1980 showing an even more convincing top than the Dow/Gold Ratio. It presents a very serious looking spike pattern. Can any of you recreate a chart like that for all Kitco to see?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 08:22 - ID#251129)
Joe Smith

Thanks for your email ECM came out ok but the other one made the old girl shake rattle and roll over !!! bl--dy computers

(Sat Feb 07 1998 08:26 - ID#344239)

(Sat Feb 07 1998 08:29 - ID#251129)
Haggis you still up

Have you seen Myrmidon post 00:16 Battle Mountain QLD Red Dome

(Sat Feb 07 1998 09:15 - ID#333131)
I couldn't believe it when I saw the Dow/Silver chart in Barrons. My wife thought I'd seen something really interesting from my explitive. Maybe we will see the Dow/ Gold ratio next?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 09:19 - ID#286199)
Kitco College of Investing in PMs
I have followed this site for more than a year. There have been many fine posts and I have learned much. I paid a lot of dues in the school of experience last year. This year is different. I am making money trading pm stocks and I think I understand why and how a little better. This post is to express my heartfelt thanks to the people who take the time and trouble to post analysis, charts, news etc.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 09:30 - ID#33024)
technical analysis about gold

Heavy Hitter
(Sat Feb 07 1998 09:35 - ID#403159)
Check this out http//
La Rouche latest article dated Jan. 17, 1998. Unless you can
speed read you will need a little time to get through it. We live
in a day with herd mentality. 99% of the people in USA are
brainwashed into thinking we will always be safe and warm.
The word crisis has been removed permanently from our lives
and wars are a thing of the past. Hard times are behind us.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 09:40 - ID#30116)
Dow silver chart. I don't have that much silver data, but a peak is evident...

(Sat Feb 07 1998 09:42 - ID#30116)
@What mail?????
BBL, I have to find out why Netscape Communicator 4 keeps losing my address book!!!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 09:45 - ID#238295)
TZADEAK: When Ed Hyman says crises are good for the markets, he means that the Fed tends to ease during such periods.

Donald: S&P 500 already has made new highs and I think the Dow will follow very shortly. Bull markets do tend to climb a wall of worry. When this bull does get into serious trouble, look for prices to drop sharply for no apparent reason. If the reasons are obvious, more likely than not it is another opportunity. In a real bear the bad news only comes out AFTER PRICES HAVE BEEN SMASHED, NOT BEFORE.

The Asian crisis may be triggering downward price pressures on computer and electronic items, but prices on many other items are picking up steadily here in Palm Beach. Every time I go the supermarket, I notice more items have gone up in price. I carefully scan the restaurant adds here, and prices are being hiked 5-10% at many of them.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 09:50 - ID#215222)
Silver Technicals
Longtime lurker, second post. Silver overbought on stochastics on
daily, weekly and monthly charts, plus stoch at lower levels than previous high ( bearish non confirm ) . Could stay overbought but daily chart has gap at $6.65 that will probably get filled.

It is probably leading the way for AU but if you are a short term trader remember the old saying, buy on rumor, sell on news. Dan

(Sat Feb 07 1998 09:51 - ID#257136)
Mozell Re: 00:32-- Blanchard has probably been silent lately so he can repurchase the scads of
Stock in SSRIF which he sold in the high 4.00s and low to middle 5.00s.
His prophecy having begun to come to fruition, he wants back on the wagon.
If he shoots of his mouth, he can't pull a Warren Wednesday with the stock, cause it will rise very rapidly.
Remember he's in this for the same reason we all are!

Steve - Perth
(Sat Feb 07 1998 10:06 - ID#284170)
Steve Blizards specially edited: NEWS VIA AUSTRALIA
BREAKING STORIES: ( He's Back! ) Email:

Moodys Downgrades Industrial Bank of Japan

Dont Kiss your money goodbye on the Web!

Target Iraq

Will Australia become a Banana Republic?

Indonesia delays price rises as fuel riot erupts

Luxury goods to feel Asian pinch

The wine explosion

Reports of the end of Asia's crisis are greatly exaggerated

The brainwashed return from Davos

Richard "Mad Dog" Butlers Power Play

The next Industrial Revolution - Post Kyoto

Deflation is not on?

Car Makers in Asian Double Trouble

Russian Nickel & Platinum supplies greater than expected>

Asian Crisis starts the year of living dangerously

WAs Millionaires secret Golden Triangle


Greenspan ensures high future money supply

Buffetts Alchemy

Australias Constitutional Convention Home Page - Live
( Aussies blowing A$40 Million to stuff up a perfectly good system )

Silver plays with Berkshire Hathaway, LBMA & Bank of England

Silvers short supply surge is not all it seems

Europeans count the cost of Asian Crisis

Russia warns US of starting the next World War

Whats on Saddams mind?

GE throws lifeline to Japanese insurer

Wool industry rocked as exports to Asia dry up

Russia & Brazil on short list

Japan constructs $72B in bonds

Soros's right-hand man earns his wagers

Investors beware US market dream run

US Arms build up in Gulf

US develops "Bunker Buster" bombs

Israelis promised biological weapon vaccines, while they head for the gasmasks

Fear of further upheaval in Asia dominates Economic forum

China almost certain to devalue currency

Aussie market to Asian tourists die

$10bn Asian fallout

Costly lure of Globalisation - Setting the Scene for a Yen bloc

BOOKMARK Steves News Page:
( Courtesy of Colin Seymour )

Steve - Perth
(Sat Feb 07 1998 10:09 - ID#284170)
That should fix the link problem in last post.

Moodys Downgrades Industrial Bank of Japan

Dont Kiss your money goodbye on the Web!

Target Iraq

Will Australia become a Banana Republic?

Indonesia delays price rises as fuel riot erupts

Luxury goods to feel Asian pinch

The wine explosion

Reports of the end of Asia's crisis are greatly exaggerated

The brainwashed return from Davos

Richard "Mad Dog" Butlers Power Play

The next Industrial Revolution - Post Kyoto

Deflation is not on?

Car Makers in Asian Double Trouble

Russian Nickel & Platinum supplies greater than expected

Asian Crisis starts the year of living dangerously

WAs Millionaires secret Golden Triangle


Greenspan ensures high future money supply

Buffetts Alchemy

Australias Constitutional Convention Home Page - Live
( Aussies blowing A$40 Million to stuff up a perfectly good system )

Silver plays with Berkshire Hathaway, LBMA & Bank of England

Silvers short supply surge is not all it seems

Europeans count the cost of Asian Crisis

Russia warns US of starting the next World War

Whats on Saddams mind?

GE throws lifeline to Japanese insurer

Wool industry rocked as exports to Asia dry up

Russia & Brazil on short list

Japan constructs $72B in bonds

Soros's right-hand man earns his wagers

Investors beware US market dream run

US Arms build up in Gulf

US develops "Bunker Buster" bombs

Israelis promised biological weapon vaccines, while they head for the gasmasks

Fear of further upheaval in Asia dominates Economic forum

China almost certain to devalue currency

$10bn Asian fallout

Costly lure of Globalisation - Setting the Scene for a Yen bloc

BOOKMARK Steves News Page:
( Courtesy of Colin Seymour )

(Sat Feb 07 1998 10:11 - ID#35767)
Barron's Silver
I love the commentary in Barron's it seemed to revolve around "how prices will tumble WHEN he sells. Buffet in fact never sells why this was not mentioned with respect to silver is amazing. What is even more amazing is that they talk about sales before he has even received full delivery. Another misrepresentation was that silver is not used up but is recycled/ if this were true there would be no shorttage and dwindling of supplies. The fact is that almost all silver is used in industry and pernanently disappears. Recycling could only occur rarely and at great cost. Further, with low gold and copper prices the by product supply is in fact going to fall. The Barron's articles were misleading and bias. ESPECIALLY "WHEN WARREN SELLS"!!!

Steve - Perth
(Sat Feb 07 1998 10:16 - ID#284170)
John Howard & Clinton phone call re: IRAQ
JUNIOR: I'm with you. Howard should tell Slick Willie to go &
sort out his women problems first. I was thinking about faxing
the Australian Cabinet tonight suggesting they should take a rain
check on starting the next world war. Just because they ended
Desert Storm in 91, doesn't mean we will have the same result again.
I see some similarities between WW1 & WW2 with German reparations
leading to Hitler. We have given Iraq 7 yrs of sanctions. Maybe they
deserved it. But maybe a whole lot more Muslims around the world
are not so convinced. Watch out Israel. And I have been noticing
that Israel is feeling a heck of a lot more trigger happy ( to quote
Netanyahu on the news tonight ) . He does have a few nukes you know.
Slick Willie's CIA guys must be fairly confident that the US will
not have a mass Anthrax attack to proceed down this path. Dummies.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 10:27 - ID#26793)
Thanks Panda. Great chart as usual. Can you tell me the date of the peak in the Dow/Silver Ratio chart? Looks like it coincides with the October selloff in the Dow.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 10:36 - ID#254276)
Middle East Muddle

US State Dept Release:

"Today I can report to you that the United States,
Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and
the Palestinian Authority are of one mind on this

Madeleine Albright
U.S. Secretary of State
Cairo News Conference, 2/2/98

From Mid-East News Service ( 2/6/98 ) :

have accepted an invitation from Saddam Hussein to visit Iraq to inspect "any presidential sites of their choosing," ITAR-TASS reported on 6 February.
Hussein sent the invitation to Duma Speaker Gennadii Seleznev the
previous day. The Duma delegation will be headed by Duma Deputy Speaker Mikhail Gutseriev of the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia ( LDPR ) and will depart for Baghdad on 8 February. The plane carrying the Duma deputies will also deliver humanitarian aid. Last December, when LDPR leader Vladimir Zhirinovsky led a delegation to Baghdad, an aid shipment was also delivered.

Does anyone know what's going on? Do politics and international tensions have anything to do with price of PMs?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 10:42 - ID#286199)
Silver Chart of 1998E production
SI has a great chart of estimated silver production and % of earnings for some NA mining companies.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 10:47 - ID#257136)
Panda @ 09:42
I had similkkar problems w/ nscape 4.03. I gave it the credit dor everytrhing which went wrong.
I believe I was hasty, as I took time to do a scan disk and chkdsk ( msworks ) . I
Scan disk cleaned it up.
I stil. have not gotten around to re-installing nscape 4.03 as nscape 3.3 seems to be working fine now.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, EH?

John Disney__A
(Sat Feb 07 1998 10:52 - ID#24135)
La mine de la semaine
Zut alors.
Have you seen zee poste of monsieur Ceaux-Dutheil an zee
analyse of zee gold ... Alors zee mine de la semaine ezz
zee beau Armonee by dam of Afrique del sud... Ah luv zeez
franche guys.. zey arre zo clevair...

(Sat Feb 07 1998 10:52 - ID#228128)
Do you have an idea how high silver might go after it comletes its upcoming correction?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 11:05 - ID#426220)

AJT__A ( Middle East Muddle ) :

Thx for the posting. YES, as we all know gold prices under normal market conditions are strongly influenced by what is happening politcally in the world. BUT, for the many many reasons expressed at Kitcos and golden-eagle ( please without the "en" ) websites, the US Fed and cohorts have been surpressing gold prices for the past couple of years.

Unfortunalty, for Goldbugs we have been accumulating the yellow metal at lower and lower prices. HOWEVER, FORTUNATELY for Goldbugs we have been accumulating the yellow metal at lower and lower prices. There is NO typo here. Sooner of later the various events plaguing the world WILL CONVERGE:

- Asian Domino Effect
- Stock market bubble about to burst
- Middle-East military conflict looming
- Monica-gate about to blow
- Inflationary pressures creeping in
- Internationally known Warren Buffett shows the way in SILVER
- GOLD bottoms in a 19-year bear market

Therefore, I repeat:

FORTUNATELY for Goldbugs we have been accumulating the yellow metal at lower and lower prices. And when they finally converge, GOLD PRICES WILL EXPLODE UPWARDS... to catch up with the silver advance in recent months, and most likely will FAR SURPASS IT.

It would indeed be naive to think that Warren Buffett would ONLY dedicate 2% of all the investments under his control to SILVER. I WOULD GIVE 10 TO 1 odds the Oracle from Omaha has additionally been building humongous positions in GOLD BULLION and Gold & Silver Mining Sshares. And he has said NOTHING about it, because HE IS STILL BUILDING HIS POSITIONS IN THE NOBLE METALS.

If you desire to see the latest world experts' views on the subject, check out -- DELETE THE EXTRA "en" in "golden"

(Sat Feb 07 1998 11:19 - ID#426220)

Many many thx for posting all that info. However, the most important one IMHO is that of Chinese Devaluation. Bur the URL doesn't work. would you recheck and post it.

China almost certain to devalue currency
Thx a lot buddy

(Sat Feb 07 1998 12:18 - ID#341312)
New poster
Hello, Kitco!
I've been lurking here for several months and learning a great deal about precious metals and investing. Similar to LGB, I was fully invested in equity mutual funds from 1991 through Aug 1997 when I bailed to money market and have been there ever since. From Sept 97 to present all the money I've made that would have gone to individual stocks has gone to accumulating physical gold and silver. Why? The market is dangerously overvalued by almost any historical measure ( p/e, div yield ) , the y2k
issue is quite serious and will lead to significant economic difficulties, gold is at 18 yr. lows, and to top it all off, paper cuurencies are becoming increasingly unstable! Thanks to Bart Kitner and all of the regulars here for providing this site and its content. This place is addicting! I do have a question to pose to you all, though. I am going to move most of my IRA money market funds to to an IRA that allows
purchase of gold and perhaps silver eagles. I have been unable to locate any local ( St. Louis, MO ) banks that handle this type of transaction and would appreciate any help you could give me in this matter.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 12:34 - ID#22956)
The charts have spoken AGAIN. The ALL wonderful Pennant-Pattern is showing itself in Apr Gold ( also June ) . It is not a perfect Pennant but a pennant nonetheless. Since gold is ( apparently ) in a bull move this formation will break to the north ( although it could go south, grin ) ....

But, my bet is north ( and my bull spreads will benefit much better than my puties ) .

once again ( for those more dull, pay attention Ted ) .....


smoke 'em if ya' got 'em!!!!! Get Real, Get Gold!!!!!!

h!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~M!~~~~~~~~~~ mow some lawns with cherokee...... ( applying war paint and lathering in buffalo sweat ( for power ) ) ..... ( whew! ) .......the stench....but.......i feel the strength......... ( holding his nose ) .......


(Sat Feb 07 1998 12:42 - ID#22956)
to add...
it might need a day or two more to perfct the consolidation....this should give the stragglers a chance to load up.....

there is an obvious 'struggle' ( battle ) here, thus the pattern ( it don't lie ) . It will go forward ( upward ) ....uh huh.
away...the lawnmower awaits

(Sat Feb 07 1998 12:49 - ID#255226)
IDT - $11.00, more likely the mid teens, going to attempt to put windows 95 on this computer over the weekend, could be down and out for a while.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 12:50 - ID#26793)
If you are USA call 800-321-8621 20th Century ( formerly Benham ) alternate number 800-345-2021 probably only weekdays.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 12:51 - ID#227238)
Mozel: I got it that time. BTW, do you have any websites, URL's, etc, to suggest? I would like to follow your thread further.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 12:59 - ID#255226)
Roth IRA's
If you have an IRA which is down in value because you've been holding on to gold mutual funds, you may want to switch it to a Roth ( tax free money at time of withdraw ) . If the up and coming move in PM funds is as big as we hope it will more then offset the tax problem incurred by the conversion. Check the rules for converting and see how they apply to you.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 13:19 - ID#333131)
E wave tech analysts
Any of you see 5 waves in the Barron's p24 Dow/Silver chart? ( 1980 to end of 1997 )

(Sat Feb 07 1998 13:26 - ID#284235)
BlackLight Power & Dr. Mills
JFT: I was not aware of the website for BlackLight Power, so I thank you.
I have been following the career of Dr. Mills since 1989. He graduated from Franklin & Marshall College in 1982. He finished 4 years of med school in 3 years, in addition to taking numerous courses in electrical engineering in the graduate school at MIT simultaneously. He certainly qualifies as a bright guy - question remains whether he is truely on to a remarkable discovery ( of Nobel Prize-type ) , or has that fine line been crossed between science and pseudoscience.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 13:26 - ID#411259)
..... IRA .....


The trick with an IRA is you can't take delivery because that is considered a disbursement and then becomes taxable. Most banks and brokerages are unwilling to store metal on a non fungible basis ( your metal is kept segregated from all other metal ) . I can help you set up the IRA, feel free to e-mail.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 13:31 - ID#31868)
Go and read down the page on the link, scroll down a bit till you read about President Carter's request for 5,000,000 Red Chinese Military to help put down a rebellion in the USA.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 13:35 - ID#431263)
Well, even though Slick is in deep doo-doo, his wife ( not Paula or Monica or ? ) is riding high! Just watched the World Economic Forum at Davos on C-Span and Hillary's speach there. At the end the moderator asked her if the time had not come for a strong, smart, forward-looking, globally-visioned woman to assume the Presidency of the US. Her response, brimmming with hubris and satisfaction, "I LOOK FORWARD TO VOTING FOR HER!" Gott im Himmel! I think I'm ready to puke!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 13:38 - ID#411259)
..... Charts Schmartz .....

Saw some talk hereabouts concerning silver charts and gaps. Yes, the gap is right about 5.60 and, sooner or later, the gap will be filled. Silver though, might run up to 8.50 before coming down to fill that gap in late March or April. Throw the charts out the window. They will tell you nothing in a short squeeze. Charts, at best, are ancillary tools and should only be considered in view of the market at large. Your charts offer no answers, lay them down and keep you ear to the tracks. You'll hears the train coming before the chart tells you so.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 13:41 - ID#287207)
In search of wisdom
Vronsky: Where is the article on no gold---bad cash that you mentioned yesterday?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 13:45 - ID#224149)
Never get married to a bad position
April Gold Futures closed Friday 298.80 .I expect a 6.00 move to the upside next week and a 12.00 move in the following week this should bring us to the 318.00 area by Feb 20 and hopefully the 330.00 area by Feb. 28 .My charts are wrong 25% of the time when I use all 200 indictors and the only important one is stochastics which has turned slightly bearish but not a sell signal yet . Next week will be very important for Gold as it will tell us the direction in this cycle til the end of April .Yes I am towards the bullish side as long as the indicators hold but will never get married to any position Go C$ , GC Go .

PH in LA
(Sat Feb 07 1998 13:55 - ID#225408)
Heavy Hitter's contribution

Yesterday I penned a post in support of your chastisement of Heavy's numerous emotional post's and their lack of substance. It was never sent, in part because I did not succeed in getting through with it through the Kitco overuse delay and in part because it was clear that you needed no help or encouragement and had the situation well in hand.

Today, as if to demonstrate what has so often been pointed out here, that every member of the Kitco family has a contribution to make, each in his own way and to his own capacity, Heavy paid us all back for his un-reasoned emotionalism ( I think just made that word up ) . I refer to his post earlier drawing attention to the LaRouche site where I found a transcript of a speech delivered to the U. of Guadalajara in September. It is probably a bit broad and philosophical for your "in the trenches" attention to detail approach, but for others among us it is a must read.

Before relegating my endorsement to the "wacko" file, please consider that LaRouche stands before us convicted ( and imprisoned, if I am not mistaken ) and thoroughly discredited for his economic and phisophical views. It goes without saying that only the most open-minded among us would even consider taking a look at the site, but for them, I suggest:

Please be sure to see also the speech refered to above entitled the Coming Financial Collapse ( or something like that ) . The title will be obvious.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:06 - ID#33024)
GOLD, DJIA 1920/1929-1990/1998

(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:07 - ID#33024)
GOLD, DJIA 1920/1929-1990/1998

(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:18 - ID#255284)
Alea iacta est
I have long forgotten most latin declension, especially irregular declension. I collected cum grano salis during one of my recent peregrinations and am thinking of having it tattooed across my forehead. I am afraid I cannot decline sal correctly if it aint already, perhaps someone else can help. My cum grana salem was an attempt at gallows humour. You will probably recognise the word Tattoo as being a Polynesian word. Tattooing has always been common in NZ, but is undergoing a great resergence, men and women of all ages and races are showing tattoos in public- beaches and markets, many are traditional Maori and Samoan design, others are in the European tradition. It is uncommonly like a fad, that and body-piercing makes for a colourful, golden summer at the beaches down under and, the metal detectors go mad.

Voyeur Professor
Please see my Date: Fri Jan 16 1998 19:50

Your conversions post of Date: Fri Feb 06 1998 08:07
You said:
1 ounce, troy = 0.031,103,476,8 kg
My conversion shareware calculation differs, albeit minutely, from your figure ( 0.031103481 0 ) and I would be interested in finding out the reason for this difference, where did you source your data?

Putting ones ear on the track is so undignified ( not to mention dangerous ) which is why I have taken up ornithology. To me the forewarning will be chirrupped by the birds, just a different metaphor. I guess yours allows you to bend down and metaphorically show off your silk shorts ;-^} ( BTW anyone remember a Scene in Birdy where one boy licked a freezing railway track and his tongue stuck to it? Propriety prohibits me from describing how it was released. --- OK, OK------ the other Boys peed on the frozen tongue )

did my e-mail arrrive, I beat you to the draw!!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:18 - ID#237149)
I agree with your comments

give 003JUS my best regards!. Please tell him next monday to leave the girls from the coffee room alone and to sell as much silver as humanly possible. I'm probably going to be a father next week and I hope to start my fatherhood on the right foot!

I agree with your views about short term silver. I'll probably be rolling up my position next week before it hits the $8.00 level.

Barb Hughes
(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:32 - ID#20783)
Physical Silver is moving to profoundly cheap levels in view of the fact that the discount to spot ratio is currently around 5% discount to spot or more. There is a large quantity of JM bars, Englehard bars and 90% bags kicking around at the moment. Some investors might want to investigate this route. IMHO.

Take careBarb

(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:34 - ID#287207)
The search starts
Anyone know the name of the highest leaveraged Gold-Copper junior with a producing property and listed in Canada?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:36 - ID#201238)
Aurator - haven't received it yet.

I seem to be having some problems today in sending email, it mught be my server - I just LOVE msn @#$%^#

(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:41 - ID#287207)
Ted: Check out Stphane's sites ( 14:07 ) you'll love them.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:43 - ID#255284)
Haruspex ---Got It!
arden will try again

(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:46 - ID#31868)
These may not be exactly what you are looking for, but I am sure you will find them interesting as you follow your quest.





(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:52 - ID#224149)
Silver game and the sharks
Silver can burn a hole in your pocket Back in the 80s I remember retired people buying Silver at 40 dollars Canadian and losing their life savings and the Vegas boys flying down with suitcases of money to prop the silver market and walking away with millions ----How long will this play last ? Dont care !! No sucker money from this Poorboy ----Let the sharks eat each other yum yum yummy

(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:58 - ID#201238)
@ aurator
Got it, but for some reason can not send you answer. Will wait for msn to fix problem I guess.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 14:58 - ID#31868)
Also ING

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:02 - ID#284235)
intended message for JTF, not JFT. Sorry.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:06 - ID#41229)
There has been talk here where China would accecpt gold for oil, but after a little surfing, I find that indeed China's oil production went up last year, but so did it's imports of oil. CHINA IS A NET IMPORTER OF OIL AND WILL BE FOR SOME TIME! Check it out.

The search continues, one must see that ANOTHER allows individuals to follow down a path of thought, when it parallels his THOUGHTS, whether they are accurate or not. If he is in the know, why wouldn't he clearly point out that China could not be the oil nation to demand gold for oil.
Also this would shoot the theory of Japan aligning with China, which by the way there is riffs between the two cultures, If memory serves me right, the japanese forefathers either fled or were thrown out of china due to different views. The Japanese may have curved from their arrogance stance and have been humbled, but the scares may run deep in the chineese pride.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:08 - ID#431263)
Herr Aurator--

Looks like a third declension I-stem to me!

Singular ( means salt water. sea water, good taste, elegance )


Plural ( means witticisms, jokes, sarcastic remarks )


Taught the stuff for over 10 years! Wiedersehen!

John Disney__A
(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:11 - ID#24135)
Goldfield ... comments please
To All
Ive just gotten interested in Australia mines.
using the same method of calculation costs as
for the US and RSA mines -
cost $Aus/oz
1995 1996 1997
414 446 506
using 0.73 as the exchange rate as a first cut
I get
302 325 370 US$/oz ( this needs correcting for
proper exchance rates in the corresponding years )
There are 241 mill shares outstanding and the
proved and probable reserves shown in the MJ are
maybe 14 mill oz most of which are from porgera.
This puts the oz/share at 14/241 = 0.06oz.
The costs look good but seem to be rising.
For comparison P&P reserves at Harmony are
about 14 mil ( with a total resource base of 70
mil ) - so 14/49 mil shares for Harmony = 0.28
oz/share. Costs seem lower at Harmony ...
but ignoring that on a rough cut ...
If harmony is at $3.5 then Goldfields should
be 3.25 *.06/.28 = $US0.69 or about 0.95 $aussie.
I dont know the aussie price and have not looked
.... How far off am I???
Also any quantitative info on resource base

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:14 - ID#31868)
Last three suggestions - IPJ - OROP

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:15 - ID#427357)

Selby ( In search of wisdom )

It will be posted sometime tonight at golden-eagle ( that's "golden" without the "en" )

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:16 - ID#394218)
Silver Reycycling
Silver can be recovered from solutions used in film developing. Does any one know the break even cost to recycle. I seem to recall from the last silver boom it is around $10/oz. As photography is the largest single consumer of silver this could cap the long term upside price.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:17 - ID#255284)
errare humanum est
Thank you, Oh! Magister Ludi.;- ) Indeed, In grano salis is correct, ( requires genitive )

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:18 - ID#32078)
Best fund for last week
The top rated metals fund for last week was Lexington Strategic Silver STSLX. Surprise!! Over 13% after coming back some on Friday.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:19 - ID#31868)
$10 is right in the ball park - take a peek at a little known company on Nasdaq - ITRO -

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:21 - ID#31868)
Ah, last two suggestions that should have read.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:22 - ID#431263)
STSLX--The way to play SIlver!
Herr Larryn--

And best way to play silver in the current environment IMHO1

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:23 - ID#32078)
Female President
CHEESEHEAD. I really don't think Hillary will vote for Mrs Dole.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:24 - ID#41229)
World resources and locations
I think this is very reveiling sight, it states that 65% of worlds petroleum reserves or in the middle east, ALSO RUSSIA RESERVES NEARLY DEPLEATED! Would this be the reason russia aligns themselves with Iraq?

Me thinks the value of the middle east has been down played, no wonder U.S. is overthere at the drop of a hat!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:26 - ID#287207)
tolerant1; Vrongsky
tolerant1: Thanks for the info. I'll look into them. BTW something happened to YUM recently and the stock is currently halted.

Vronsky: Thank you. No "en" eh. I wait the enlightenment as we all do I guess.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:28 - ID#255284)
The male must get through----
arden got it, thanks.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:29 - ID#31868)
Nuclear powered Aircraft Carriers protecting "our" oil interests, sad commentary don't you think?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:30 - ID#31868)
Welcome, regarding YUM the newswires have not posted the reason for the halt.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:32 - ID#32078)
RH IN LA. Thanks for your link to LaRouche's publication. Now I have two more names of authors whose writings I will ignore because their brains are made of barf. They use the word 'treason' and worse everytime someone criticizes the president. Obvious bigoted thinking.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:36 - ID#431263)
Herr Larryn--
Nor Mrs. Dole for HILLARY ( ous ) ! : )

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:42 - ID#287207)
tolerant1. Inital rummaging around indicates YUM has some overdue documenation to provide to the exchange.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:48 - ID#32078)
Golden Cheesehead
Would this discussion continue between us if I said I pulled for Elway?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:52 - ID#31868)
From the report I recently read by Adrian Day via Gold Newsletter they just got $45 million in financing and are sitting on enough copper to make a penny the size of Europe.

You can call them at 604-488-0077 and request a full info package.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:54 - ID#238295)
Poorboys: I thought you were a gold permabear. What has changed your thinking?

RJ: Nice to have you on the side of the golden bulls, even if you believe ( as I do ) that near-term upside is modest.

Vronsky: If the Chinese devalue, that will be short-term bearish for gold and the Asian markets as well. Your posts imply it would be bullish.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 15:58 - ID#256254)
Date: Sat Feb 07 1998 11:19
vronsky ( CHINA DEVALUATION ) ID#426220:

Many many thx for posting all that info. However, the most important one IMHO is that of
Chinese Devaluation. Bur the URL doesn't work. would you recheck and post it.

China almost certain to devalue currency

Unfortunately this link has gone away. I also checked steves homepage and the link is gone ( doesn't work ) . Can someone summarized the story on China and its currency devaluation? Thanks

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:00 - ID#26793)
Germany will allow bombing of Iraq from U.S. bases in Germany

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:01 - ID#32078)
What happens if the Chinese devalue? If the word gets out, the Chinese citizens will start buying gold as they always have, and it will be bullish. If it is a sudden thing, then there will probably be another temporary rush to dollars, pushing gold down. Take your pick. In the long run, bullish, as per Vronsky.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:03 - ID#26793)
Any initial Chinese devaluation would only be 10% "expert" says

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:04 - ID#394218)
Thanks for the info. Do you know if ITRO had a large volumn of photo solution secured under contract before the silver price increase. The silver-fertilizer combination appeals to me. This could be an amusing punt.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:05 - ID#31868)
for the record on silver
Anyone wishing to learn more or get a solid start on silver mines should go over to golden-eagle and click on the GOLDBUG. I can assure you that you will find excellent information you can trust.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:13 - ID#285392)
How low do you expect silver to go to during this correction? Thanks!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:14 - ID#31868)
geo for their web site. You may have difficulty getting in but keep trying. Also you can read all of their press releases on yahoo stock page.

I learned of them through J. Taylor's newsletter.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:15 - ID#26793)
Reality check on Warren Buffett silver purchase
Lots of news about the 130 million ounces of silver. If this were 1929 and Bernard Baruch or Joe Kennedy cashed a check for $130 million asking for silver dollars would that be a big deal? Likely the bank would have to order them from the mint or other banks so it would create a stir. This is essentially what Warren Buffett did. The amount of silver is roughly the same. As in 1929 the message of the act is exactly the same today. Stocks are too high priced. Banks don't pay enough interest for the risk. The dollar is likely to be devalued.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:19 - ID#280245)
More Warehouse 'problems'
Engelhard claims it is victim of fraud
Nikki Tait in Chicago

Englehard, the US manufacturer of specialty chemicals and environmental protection catalysts, yesterday said its Japanese base metals trading subsidiary had been the subject of an elaborate fraud, which could cost it and other trading firms as much as $200m.
The NJ based company, one of the largest users of platinum based metals, said its Japanese metals trading unit, established seven years ago, had been one of a number of companies to have suffered from the scam. It first became aware of the irregularities last week, and in recent days had notified both the Tokyo Commodities Exchange and the Tokyo police.

Here again, this appears to involve warehouse stocks rather than rogue traders.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:21 - ID#41229)
Tolerant 1
After reading the previously stated info, It confirms alot in my mind, such as supporting of Isreal ( A reason to keep a military presence in area. ) Also the reason Bush's administration gave Saddam green light to envade Kuwait, so we could become the Knight in Shining armor, thus gaining Arab allies and increase unrest between Arabs themselves.

It appears, he who controls the middle east controls Industrial nations fates.

It appears China will have a big stake in the outcome.

It is amazing how this struggle would be fight in the name of religion, while the underlying motives are greed and power!

Sorry if the revalations are now just becoming apparent, takes awhile to shake off the years of disinformation.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:23 - ID#26793)
Indonesian Chinese community accused of moving money out of country

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:26 - ID#285392)
Selby re:a copper/gold /silver mine
Imperial Metals Corporation IPM Toronto stock exchange is just coming into production. You might want to look it up at along with ADL TorontoAdrian resources and exploration company whose feasability study by Teck corporation is coming out within the next two weeks. Adrian is reported to have one of the worlds largest copper deposits in the world if it is confirmed feasible. Look up their charts on

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:30 - ID#431263)
Herr Larryn--

Nobody's perfect! Aber ja!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:39 - ID#31868)
To think that there are families all over the US that may lose more of their children disgusts me. And for Bill Clinton to send anyone into battle is not only a national disgrace, but a human one as well.


(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:42 - ID#26793)
Income disparity. Wall Street execs. warned not to discuss their bonuses

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:42 - ID#113316)
re. Central Bank Gold Sales

In your 15:15 post you suggest currency devaluation as a result of gold sales by central banks. This is not always the case. As we Kitcotians [?] know, the Argentine CB sold their entire gold reserve late this past year, and it has had no ill effect on the Argentine peso. As you may know, their currency is pegged to the US dollar by law. If anything, it has increased in value right along with the US buck. All credit to Domingo Cavallo in this regard. BTW, the Argentine economy is on par with Chile, both leaders in South America.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:44 - ID#255226)
Snowbird - $5.50 within 4 - 6 weeks

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:48 - ID#280245)
Refer (15:24), "Pays our money and takes our choice?"
Secretara de Relaciones Exteriores
Direccin General de Anlisis Econmico

( Translated- - to state the obvious )
When extracting 3,062 mbd of total hydrocarbons in 1995, including 2,618
mbd of crude petroleum in 1995, PEMEX was placed again like the fourth
world- wide company in production, after the state companies of Saudi
Arabia, Iran and CHINA, and contributed around 5% of the total supply of
petroleum in the world. ( 6 and 7 See Graphical ) .

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:55 - ID#280245)
sig, "and it has had no ill effect on the Argentine peso..."
Perhaps because they ( ACB ) made so much on their puts!?

Argentina exercises PUTS
"Argentinas central bank explained that since the fixed link to the dollar was established ( with full US dollar backing for the local currency ) the gold holding constituted a "speculative" position ( as the gold price fluctuated against the dollar ) . It therefore established a policy of upgrading the quality of its gold and then depositing it with top grade institutions to earn interest. When gold reached the attractive price of $380 an ounce in 1994, the central bank protected the price by buying put options. When the time came to exercise these put options, between January and July 1997, the price of gold had dropped substantially and the central bank opted to sell the gold."

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:57 - ID#252150)
As BC would say--"that's good....that's real good".

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:58 - ID#26793)
Deutsche Bank says no to merger; will fire 9,000 instead. We can make it.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 16:58 - ID#348286)
@Starr ZAPPS Clinton's lawyer
WASHINGTON - Following is a letter to President Clinton's personal lawyer, David Kendall, by Whitewater independent counsel Kenneth Starr, as provided by Starr's office:

Your letter of Feb. 6, 1998, accusing this office of improperly disclosing information, including grand jury testimony, is strange and inappropriate for three significant reasons. First, you elevate mere suspicion to specific accusation without any facts other than the press' often-misleading attributions of sources. Second, the timing of your letter - arriving in the midst of what appears to be an orchestrated plan to deflect and distract this investigation - undermines your expression of outrage. Third, we are aware that as of several days ago, the President's defense attorneys had most, if not all, of the material information ( whether true or not ) set forth in today's New York Times article.

In my service as independent counsel, particularly with regard to the secrecy of the grand jury, I have insisted on a high commitment to professional conduct. I have expressed this commitment to you repeatedly. From the beginning, I have made the prohibition of leaks a principal priority of the Office. It is a firing offense, as well as one that leads to criminal prosecution. In the case of each allegation of improper disclosure, we have thoroughly investigated the facts and reminded the staff that leaks are utterly intolerable.

In light of the unclear press attributions in some examples cited in your letter, I have undertaken an investigation to determine whether, despite my persistent admonitions, someone in this office may be culpable. I have no factual basis - as you likewise do not have - even to suspect anyone at this juncture. I am undertaking this investigation with deep regret, because I know how demoralizing it is to a staff of highly professional and experienced Federal prosecutors. You do an extreme disservice to these men and women - and to the legal profession and the public - by your unsupported charges.

Indeed, the ``facts'' from the press that you cite as evidence of misconduct were, in each case, known to individuals outside my office. These individuals include witnesses, my lawyers, and others. Let me cite one noteworthy example: Monica Lewinsky's attorney, William Ginsburg, has told the world that he was in touch with lawyers on both sides of the pending civil case.

The ``leaks'' that you complain about, thus, may have come from sources close to those under investigation. Those sources would have a clear and manifest motivation to release harmful information with carefully crafted defenses in order to lessen the painful impact of such evidence when it is revealed through official proceedings.

Finally, your role as private defense counsel and your loyalty to your client does not qualify you to lecture me on professional conduct and my legal responsibilities. I believe you know where I stand and have always stood on these issues. Fiercely aggressive representation, including through media grandstanding, cannot be an excuse for smearing a lawyer through reckless accusations. Let's stick to facts. Let's find out the truth.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:03 - ID#228128)
APH thanks for your response
If I understand correctly you think silver will peak this week and then fall to 5.60 level in 4-6 weeks, then up to 11-midteens range thereafter. Do you have a time line for the advance to 11?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:04 - ID#315256)
Silver........defense stockpile almost gone....
According to a spokesman for the U.S. Defense Logistics Agency, if the U.S. Mint continues to consume
silver at current levels, the supply in the Defense National Stockpile, 39.2 million ounces at the end of
1997, will be completely depleted.

Eastman Kodak, which typically purchases between 50 million and 60 million ounces of silver per year
for its photographic film manufacturing, had hedged about half of its 1998 requirements "in the ball
park" of $4.95 per ounce during the second half of 1997. The company declined to comment on future
hedging plans.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:05 - ID#317193)
I'm still a newbie, but the education over the last few months has been much appreciated. After sifting through all the posts and veiwing recent events, I observe that ANOTHER and Ted Butler are saying the same thing. The lending of gold and silver has created a situation where prices have been artificialy depressed and will result in an explosion in prices. In silver, the telling tale is the lease rates since last year. Until the rates moved up to 3% per year the price was low. After that you know the rest. One conclusion is that over 20% lease rates mean that there isn't much ,if any, supply left. If so, the silver leased out will not be returned and some large financial institutions will have massive losses. Mr. Buffett's future deliveries should answer that question. Whole bunch of silver due next month! If gold is in the same situation,i.e., massive loans,then when the price breaks above about 315-330, lease rates will hit 3% and over. If this happens it will confirm to me that the CB's are starting to be scared. If the price rises higher, lease rates will rocket, just like silver. Assuming this scenerio, the billions of derivative losses will so overwhelm these financial institutions that the futures market will cease to function. Hence, owning physical possession of gold and silver will be imperative since it will then be known that there is no supply left. The CB's will have lent out their gold and silver and will never get it back. Paper promises can not create gold and silver. Worry not that Buffett will sell or lease his silver-a lease is just a sale with no security-he will hold simply to preserve his wealth, not increase it. So, I will watch lease rates with great interest and distain my charts and ignore any wave theory. This is a different game. It is the fear of the lessor's of the metal that will now rule the day. Silver ought to be the "education" for all. Is this absurd, perhaps. Actually, I would appreciate your comments and further education. These are my opinions, nothing else. This play would also result in many mining co's suffering large losses. Scares me in owning those stocks over a price of 360-390. As I said, your further "thoughts",comments, attacks and the like are solicited. I no longer think I'm crazy-but how the hell would I know! Tom

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:05 - ID#252150)
I'd appreciate it if you would take a look at this & give me your assessment. Thanks.

To: rrman ( 175 )
From: Henry Hooymans Thursday, Feb 5 1998 5:16PM EST
Reply # of 191

Further assay results from San Nicolas

Western Copper Holdings Limited WTC
Shares issued 10,706,649 Feb 4 close $8.35
Thu 5 Feb 98 News Release
See Teck Corp ( TEK.B ) News Release
Mr W. Meyer reports
Teck and Western Copper have received assay results from the first 89m of
the massive sulphide zone intersected in hole SAL-33. The massive sulphides
continue for 155m, with the balance remaining to be assayed.
As with earlier holes, the system includes a higher grade zone containing
zinc, copper and precious metals at the top and a copper, silver zone in
the lower portion, separated by a section of relatively low grade material.

Hole SAL-33
From - To Width Cu Zn Ag Au
( m ) ( m ) % % g/t g/t

160.5-179.0 18.5 3.03 7.48 31.00 0.41
179.0-211.5 32.5 0.55 0.75 13.70 0.40
211.5-249.5 38.0 1.27 0.41 12.90 0.24
Total to date
160.5-249.5 89.0 1.38 2.00 16.96 0.33

Hole SAL-33 was drilled 100m west of SAL-31 which was previously reported.
The following additional holes have been completed with assay results
SAL-34 drilled 125m west of SAL-33. Stringer zone mineralization from
155.4-280.5m; massive sulphides from 451.8 to 506.4m followed by stringer
zone mineralization to 519.6m; and,
SAL-35 continuing to drill 100m east of SAL-29. Massive sulphides from
223.0-353.5m followed by stringer zone mineralization intermittently to
Drilling is continuing with two rigs.
( c ) Copyright 1998 Canjex Publishing Ltd.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:06 - ID#41229)
Old Soldier
Do you know how many Aircraft carriers convoys U.S. are able to deploy.

Also: Is it very good stratejy, in your opinion, to place alot of your muscle in a concentrated position like we are doing. Wouldn't they be more vulnrable to submarine attacks? Is there short range low yeild nuclear weapons that subs deploy that could take out carrier convoys?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:06 - ID#26793)
More on Asian plans for dollar avoidance

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:07 - ID#227238)
LGB: According to the local paper this morning; that 60 million ounces utilized by Kodak, represents 25% of the photographic market.

Barb Hughes
(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:15 - ID#20783)

For more on Englehard story...

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:17 - ID#210235)
@Stephane Ceaux-Dutheil
Thanks for the most interesting post.

Does anyone out there know approximate dates of recessions of this decade? While U. S. recessions would be most pertinent to the 90's chart, world or regional/non-U. S. recessions would be useful.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:18 - ID#41229)
Unable to access url, From your post China is the 3rd largest exportor?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:19 - ID#315256)
@ Earl
Yes, I believe that the photography industry as a whole used 234 million ounces of silver in 1997 and expect that to increase by 3% or so in 1998. Kodak's deal represents only half of what they expect to purcahse in 1998.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:19 - ID#32078)
Chinese devaluation
The yuan is now set at 8.7 per US dollar. The Chinese think that is too high as measured against their trading partners' currencies.

After reconsidering this situation, the solution is clear. China could devalue against other Asian trading partner currencies by selling dollars from their foreign exchange account. They would maintain the 8.7/dollar ratio and increase the value of other currencies against the dollar and the yuan at the same time.

In affect, they would be forcing a dollar devaluation worldwide by large scale selling, maintaining the link with the dollar they promised and devaluing against all other currencies. When they sell dollars, like Japan has been doing, gold will climb, so they will buy gold before that.

How do we know when China is buying?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:22 - ID#41229)
Gotta go, need to change oil in cars.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:33 - ID#113316)
Bravo, Judge Starr!

oops, almost forgot --Go Team Gold

Mike Sheller
(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:36 - ID#347447)
Caught your E-Wave inquiry earlier. I have not seen the silver chart in Barron's, but the chart's the chart. There is only ONE. YES, Silver could be said to have put in 5 waves into its major bottom from the $50 peak in '80 to its bottom of $3.50ish in 91/92. I am not an Elliott Waver ( too hard to count to 5 for me - I'll stick to the Sun, Moon & Planets thank you ) but if those 5 waves are a completion of a single overall wave, then according to orthodox Elliott as I understand it, we are now in wave c of a corrective abc wave, which will turn down and bring 5 more waves lower in silver. I guess that might bring us to 25 cents someday ( ;- ) . Like RJ, I think there are times you can depend on certain chart theories, and patterns, and times you can't. I personally prefer an aberrated E Wave interpretation that the higher low of 4.55 or so in '97 for silver means that we have completed wave 2 of a 5 wave advance, and we are now in wave 3, which may go further than anyone is imagining right now. If you look at a chart that encompasses 1965 - 1980, then silver has just completed the preliminary first wave that reflects a modern day version of the '68 to '71 blip. That would mean a very intriguing ride ahead if so. But, then, I am bullish on silver, and not just because of the current squeeze. I must admit that my interests, since they are very long term oriented, DO encourage me to take a very bright long term view of silver and gold.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:38 - ID#339320)

Another great article by John Kutyn at golden-eagle:

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:40 - ID#339320)
@golden-eagle.....but drop the "en".

that's , but without the "en".

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:40 - ID#329157)
@aurator, Feb 7, 14:18 - conversion factors
Conversion factors... The site:
says to convert troy ounces to kg,
multiply by 0.031 103 476 8

The site claims that this is an exact value.
It is possible your conversion software is
limited by the precision of the floating point
I see Kitco also has 1 troy oz = 20 pennyweight = 31.10348 grams.

We need another source of data to do a check. Digging into my
chest of old University data books, I find that the Science Data Book
by R. M. Tennant ( Oliver & Boyd, 1971 ) states
that the pound is 0.453 592 37 kg exactly.
Hence using the grains per avoirdupois and troy ounce as conversion
factors and remembering that there are 12 troy ounces in a troy pound
the troy oz. is 0.453 592 37 kg * 5760/ ( 7000*12 ) exactly.
Right now, I have to do this by laborious hand arithmetic since
my calculator does not have enough digits, and that wonderful piece
of software Mathematica that I have at work is not available to me
right now. The multiplier 5760/ ( 7000*12 ) can be expressed as
3*4*4/ ( 100*7 ) for convenient hand calculation purposes literally on the
back of an envelope.
The result I get is 0.0311034768 kg exactly. Fortunately this
is in perfect agreement with the web site figure quoted above.
The difference between this exact figure and the truncated value as quoted by Kitco would give you a discrepancy of about $1.20 on a metric tonne of gold. If I had a metric tonne of gold, I wouldn't be too
bothered about $1.20.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:46 - ID#316193)
One of These Days...(This is a joke)
One day at a busy airport, the passengers on a commercial
airliner are seated, waiting for the cockpit crew to show up so
they can get underway.

The pilot and co-pilot finally appear in the rear of the plane,
and begin walking up to the cockpit through the center aisle.
Both appear to be blind. The pilot is using a white cane,
bumping into passengers right and left as he stumbles down the
aisle, and the co-pilot is using a guide dog. Both have their
eyes covered with huge sunglasses. At first the passengers do
not react, thinking that it must some kind of practical joke.
However, after a few minutes the engines start spooling up and
the plane starts moving down the runway.

The passengers look at each other with some uneasiness, whispering
among themselves and looking desperately to the stewardesses for
reassurance. Then the airplane starts accelerating rapidly and
people begin panicking. Some passengers are praying, and as the
plane gets closer and closer to the end of the runway, the voices
are becoming more and more hysterical. Finally, when the plane
has less than 20 feet of runway left, there is a sudden change
in the pitch of the shouts as everyone screams at once, and at
the very last moment the airplant lifts off and is airborne.

Up in the cockpit, the co-pilot breaths a sigh of releaf and
turns to the captain, "You know, one of these days the passengers
aren't going to scream and we're gonna get killed!"

(Sat Feb 07 1998 17:52 - ID#280245)
Refer--My apologies!
Theyve removed the article. Well, I usually print out a hard copy for the file. If I did, Ill be happy to share it with you. For now ( Im not where the file is, at present ) Ill see if I cant recapture the original report--in some form...
CyberReports can be VERY frustrating....

Steve - Perth
(Sat Feb 07 1998 18:05 - ID#284170)
VRONSKY - Link is fixed. (Go to end of article re: China Devaln)
Steves specially edited: NEWS VIA AUSTRALIA

China almost certain to devalue currency

One Step closer to a Common Asian Currency Bloc

The poor are growing restless at Davos

Chinese Devaluation by August? Chinese Exporters hurting

Moodys Downgrades Industrial Bank of Japan

Dont Kiss your money goodbye on the Web!

Target Iraq

Will Australia become a Banana Republic?

Indonesia delays price rises as fuel riot erupts

Luxury goods to feel Asian pinch

The wine explosion

Reports of the end of Asia's crisis are greatly exaggerated

The brainwashed return from Davos

Richard "Mad Dog" Butlers Power Play

The next Industrial Revolution - Post Kyoto

Deflation is not on?

Car Makers in Asian Double Trouble

Russian Nickel & Platinum supplies greater than expected

Asian Crisis starts the year of living dangerously

WAs Millionaires secret Golden Triangle


Greenspan ensures high future money supply

Buffetts Alchemy

Australias Constitutional Convention Home Page - Live
( Aussies blowing A$40 Million to stuff up a perfectly good system )

Silver plays with Berkshire Hathaway, LBMA & Bank of England

Silvers short supply surge is not all it seems

Europeans count the cost of Asian Crisis

Russia warns US of starting the next World War

Whats on Saddams mind?

GE throws lifeline to Japanese insurer

Wool industry rocked as exports to Asia dry up

Russia & Brazil on short list

Japan constructs $72B in bonds

Soros's right-hand man earns his wagers

Investors beware US market dream run

US Arms build up in Gulf

US develops "Bunker Buster" bombs

Israelis promised biological weapon vaccines, while they head for the gasmasks

Fear of further upheaval in Asia dominates Economic forum

$10bn Asian fallout

Costly lure of Globalisation - Setting the Scene for a Yen bloc

BOOKMARK Steves News Page:
( Courtesy of Colin Seymour )

(Sat Feb 07 1998 18:15 - ID#342398)
James re drill holes at WTC
Do you know if WTC or Teck has a web page? If not, do you have a phone # for any pertinent individuals re drill results. This is very interesting and a suvey of values could reveal much. I'm birddogging a roughly similar situation and would like to discuss the geology with them. many thanx

(Sat Feb 07 1998 18:24 - ID#342398)
Haggis re email
Haggis, I sent you an email with my new email address. I can't tell whether it left or not. If you don't have it give me a shot on the post. Thanx

(Sat Feb 07 1998 18:31 - ID#302251)

Since you guys are so HOT on Larouche,
I finnaly was forced to read it:

I am very surprise to report
that I can not think of anyone else at the moment,
who represents the feeling expressed by Kitcoits,
better than Larouche.

for recommending his website.

Steve - Perth
(Sat Feb 07 1998 18:36 - ID#284177)
I am an avid reader at times of Lyndon Larouche. It is amazing what little tit bits one can pick up. However, the more he defends
Slick Willie, the more I think Clinton is guilty. If I was Clinton
I'm not so sure I would want Larouche defending me either.
Remember: "That's good, that's real good"!!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 18:45 - ID#60253)
Some see metals from a view of only supply and demand. Supply must be put for use and real demand must consume to produce a product. It is not this way with all things! If a person holds gold, must that holding is viewed with the one purpose, to sell some day for profit or loss. It is for some minds that gold in both hands can have no use? Such a mind can only see value in paper terms. For such thought finds gold as wealth, only if it is someday turned back to paper! Paper, indeed! A dangerous position to hold for the future in our lives!

Brokers and traders will show you, turn your gold into wealth, put it to productive use, Trade It! Sell your gold and buy it again, many times. Do this and find the value lost from your youth!

But I say, spend your time in the company of truly wealthy ones, see how they make gold lie very still! Know this now, the world will again, in your time, feel value in gold as never before. And that value will be as the productive use of holding wealth thru the fire of change. Yes, you can also walk in the footsteps of giants.

Think now in light of the real world around us. Hold your assets in the sun of day, what do we see? A government bond denominated in a currency? Now, remove the currency from the bond, show what is in your hand? Hear me now, we see nothing of productive use! Yes, there is supply of the currency, and we have demand for the currency, but the end product is as the space between stars! Even in this light of day a trader/

government will tell you, hold not that commodity, gold, for it is as a dead, unproductive asset. I say, run from these lies, for they see not deep in the future!

Is this not true? I an slow, but many think for me. Read please:

Noone can see the value of a real asset when knowing how many currency units it is denominated in. Value is only known when holding one real asset next to another real asset and comparing the currency unit valuations of both. Use as an example, a $75,000 $US Mercedes and a small apartment, also $75,000. They can be traded using the currency as a temporary holding until the transaction is complete. The car and apartment are viewed as having productive use of equal value. However, it is the items that have the value, not the currency unit! The currency is of but momentary value expressed as the intention of a trade completion. Complete the trade and poof the units hold no future

value. At this point in time, everything in the world is denominated in currencies that have no use, except to complete the trade! Trillions upon trillions of digitized currency are currently being held for the completion of commerce, extending out into other lifetimes! Of course we are speaking of any form of currency denominated debt, be it

government or private.

The major threat to this collection of wealth holdings would be the introduction of any real asset currency. Any country that could resource a currency of use the world over does pose a threat to the wealth of nations greater then war! It is in the realm of possibilities, that a gold or oil based system would bring a resolution to the present

structure as equal to  a nuclear war of currencies. Our concept of value, would indeed have to start over. 

Mr. Cjs1, To say this is good or your view is a good one in my world, is to say I agree in your world. good thoughts flow as cool water for a thirsty mind


Date: Thu Feb 05 1998 00:01

JTF ( Peter Munk, ABX, and LBMA ) ID#57232:

Another: Could you tell us more about what Peter Munk may have done?

Mr. JTF,

ABX is in debt for gold. They owe not currency but gold. They are a paper company operating in a paper world. No government will allow any entity to sell gold for thousands an ounce when debts by that country go unpaid. Especially when the paper that represents the gold that is owed by a miner, is held by some who gain thru the loss to the all. In that time, gold will have a far better use. Remember, gold and oil will ever flow in the same direction


Date: Wed Feb 04 1998 23:52

WetGold ( ANOTHER ) ID#243180:

Without speaking in parable ?

Buy physical gold and hold it close. Real wealth can not know time, it is good for all seasons. It will buy you honor during a time without truth!

I will return in a time.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 18:47 - ID#210235)
Dear Ziva,

Lay off the "ONE OF US - KITCOITE" garbage. Most of us reading and writing to this site are interested in gold and investment analysis. Period. Go find another site to turn into a private club.

Steve from Perthe,

How's new fatherhood? Sleeping through the night yet? As usual, your collection of media information is golden. Thanks.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 18:48 - ID#302251)
Hey kids,

While all of us are waiting nervously for ANOTHER post tonight,
here are some of my yesterdays replies to your posts:

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:00 - ID#426220)

Thx old buddy - appreciate the help.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:03 - ID#187218)
ANOTHER-restatement and additional question
ON: Wed Feb 04 1998 23:52 I ASKED:
"... How about informing us as to the time-frame that allows our grandest wishes ( PMs replacing paper ) to come to fruition.. "

In addition to this "What is the catalyst for the coming event and when will it happen ?"

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:04 - ID#315256)
@ El Nino ............walloped us good
Well fellow CA costal dwellers, are you enjoying reliving the days of Noah? We had no power at all yesterday, most major highways closed today and other days this week, and more rain to come. ( Though they say the worst is over ) . Oh well, in the last big El Nino, we had a mudslide wallop our house in the middle of the night and we had to evacuate. Prompted us to move from the steep Redwood studded hills to a more even playing field.

Such weather disastors have been increasing in recent years according to some meterologists. Also, frequency and intensity of earthquakes. Also, rising sea temperatures and melting of the polar ice caps. Hmmm, when coupled with sociological upheavels, Middle East tensions, the slow breakdown of confidence in Govt. we see due ( and will continue to see more clearly ) due to Clinton's latest debacle ( anyone watch the specials on Betty Currie last night? ) , weapons of Mass destruction proliferation among the less stable world citizens, European Union plans, etc. etc....

Is it just me, or are there other NON Gloom and Doomers who have an instinctual feeling that we may be on the cusp of cnage, and I don't mean change for the better......

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:08 - ID#302251)


The Trilateral are pushing us towards WW3
so that they can sell more weapons.
It is now a major industry.
They want to be repaid with paper money.

The biggest industry worldwide is the drug trade,
it is handled mostly exclusively by governments,
and they want to be repaid with paper money.

Why should I hold gold ?

Charles Keeling
(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:12 - ID#344225)


Thanks for your e-mail on Asian Deflation.

I don't see it that way. I see what happened
is S.E. Asia as an inflationary event. They
have been printing money like crazy, and it
finally caught up to them via inflation which
caused currency devaluation. Same thing is
happening in Russia and next is probably
China. Japan is printing money rapidly and
their "big bang" is supposed to be in April.
I don't know what that would be except to
move away from holding paper and move
into holding something that would back
their currency while tanking the U S dollar.
Seems to me that this move could level
the playing filed.

I have my position, and I am patiently
waiting for the Euro to be a happening thing.

US M3 is now growing at 9.0 +, and this
can be compared to ll.0 + in 1979/80!!!. This
17 year old bull just doesn't want to die, but
I feel that the EURO will be the catalyst that
will triger it's demise. The only thing that
saved the market a few weeks ago was
flight money from SE Asia and Israel.
When it returns home the bulls better duck
and cover. This event, which probably will
occur before the EURO, could give us a real
good spike up all by it's self.

Crude oil is too low. Gold is too low. Both
are being manipulated. You know what
happens when you "rig" markets. The
Arab country's can not be happy with their
return on crude. It just may be possible
that they will price their crude based on the
Euro when it becomes available.

If so-the dollar will more than likely go into
a steady decline, and crude and gold will
move higher on a steady basis and provide
us with a 5-7 year bear market. If Japan is
selling paper and moving into gold at the
same time, we could get a double whammy.

The EURO is supposed to go into effect
1-1-99. I hope they make it, because they are
going head to head with the Y2K bug. I
understand the mods for the Euro are almost
as extensive as the Y2K. I really doubt that
myself, but none the less, lots of code has
to be changed in the Financial Institutions
to make EURO function at an optimum level.

Notice that the only country ready to help
the US in the Gulf is England? This time
around is going to be different. After this
skirmish, the Arab country's will want more
money for their oil. Iraq owes Russia 7
billion dollars. Could it be that BC will back
down? Lose face & the dollar tanks. Step
on toes and the dollar tanks. It's a no win!

IMHO the USA will not have any friends
in the ME except for Israel if an attack is
launched. Russia and China will also be
P O ed. The fundamentalists in the Arab
country's may possibly bring pressure to
bear for a change in crude pricing.

Of course, nothing is for sure. Times they
are a changing. Do you need a hedge?

30K can get you a piece of this:

If 30 K is too much, I believe that they are
going public ASAP.

I see July 1 of 98 as being the LATEST date
that a move upward will be made. That is
six months before the EURO goes into
effect. Keep your eye on the EURO, OIL,
and the thing that could make all of this
wrong: Black Light Power.

KEEP PRINTING AG, and GO AU................

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:15 - ID#28585)
BMG is probably the most attractive gold on the XAU today.

The reasons:

1 ) Much greater share liquidity and asset safety than companies such as Ashanti ( see Dirt's earlier post ) .

2 ) Much less likelihood of acquiring another company, thereby causing either dilution of shares or diminution of available cash. Unfortunately, the "most-likely-to-acquire" companies such as NEM, ABX, and PDG remain somewhat high risk in regard to share depreciation via acquisitions.

3 ) Relatively small loss reported does not threaten company. At the same time, it leaves tremendous room for performance improvement, hence share appreciation.

4 ) Persistent market rumors that, if any major were to be acquired in an imminent industry consolidation, it would be BMG.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:18 - ID#187218)
Mr. Keeling
Can U expand on this : " ... I have my position, and I am patiently waiting for the Euro to be a happening thing... "

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:18 - ID#288157)
Refer--The original doc was "LVIII Aniversario de la Expropiacion Pterolera",
and seems to have disappeared from the face of the earth. However, here
is essentially the same listing ( although this report gives MUCH lower
reserve figures than I have previously seen ) .
Saudi Arabia Oil Company ( Aramco ) , la estatal iran y Sinopec de China encabezan la lista de empresas productoras de crudo, con Pemex en el 4o. lugar. El cambio ms relevante es esta lista es el avance de Kuwait Petroleum Company ( KPC ) . En 1991, KPC no figur en la lista debido a los daos sufridos en la guerra del Prsico. En 1992, reapareci en el 13o. lugar, avanz al 8o. sitio en 1993 y ahora se ubic en el 7o. sitio en la lista correspondiente a 1994.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:18 - ID#287207)
If you rush
Ted: Just saw on the TV news the Young Communists of Canada demonstrating in front of the US consulate in downtown Toronto. Apparently they want the US to forget about bombing Iraq and the UN to forget about sanctions. If you rush you might get here to see them... all 30 of them. Getting cold though and you probably couldn't make it in time before they have to get back to their jobs running your ISP.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:24 - ID#26793)
Your are absolutely correct. Gold has no price. It is just gold. Well said.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:25 - ID#329157)
Your thoughts are good indeed, to invigorate the thoughts of others. Some may agree, some may disagree, but the subject is gold, and gold's history tells us unequivocally that its wealth does not disappear like the paper promises of nations. We are in the middle of a financial crisis, clearly evident in places like S. Korea, Thailand, and Indonesia, the like of which has not been seen since 1929. Mr. Kondratieff's cycle. After 1929 it was some years before the German paper currency was reduced to requiring wheelbarrows full of it to buy simple daily needs. Likewise the collapse of world paper currencies here and there is a risk that will be enormously heightened in the next few years, and it should be no surprise that people like Mr. Buffett are taking delivery of physical precious metals as part of their wealth. Mr. Buffett has said he has no plans to sell- no trading to sell and buy back as you say.

Holding a proportion of one's wealth in gold has been standard investment advice, and now seems to be forgotten as millions blindly commit to paper mutual funds- many don't even seem to know that there is a downside risk to mutual funds. If these millions start to commit a small proportion of their investments to gold, it will have no less an effect on the gold price than the effect of Mr. Buffett's interest in silver.

Next week or the week after could bring the start of military action against Iraq. Mr Yeltsin's warning of the risk of escalation ought not to be dismissed lightly, since the world has changed since Desert Storm. Old Soldier's posts have been most informative. The effects on the price of oil, gold, and the compounding of effects if "oil should bid for gold" could be explosive. We will not have long to find out.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

D. March:
"Proverbs are in the world of thought what gold coin is in the world of business - great value in small compass, and equally current among all people.
Sometimes the proverb may be false, the coin counterfeit, but in both cases the false proves the value of the true."

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:26 - ID#28585)
If nothing else, the Asian economic debacle has inspired Asian countries to sit down and discuss imitating their European trading partners in creating an Economic Monetary Union employing one single currency.

Like the EURO, the Asian currency is almost certain to be either gold-supported or gold-backed. The Asians are ( and will remain ) major goldbugs, especially given the history of Asian currency volatility.
Like the Europeans, they will need to create an immediate faith and trust in the new Asian currency to announced from such union. Hence, the imperative to support the new currency with gold.

Yet, another threat to the hegemony of the U.S. dollar is in the process of unfolding.

Charles Keeling
(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:35 - ID#344225)

If you got Krugerands I got drugs for you.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:35 - ID#426220)

There is one cardinal factor which destines a currency to
DEVALUATION... that is when a country's Central Bank embarks upon the foolhardy exercise of selling off its GOLD RESERVES.

The analysis correlates Central Bank Gold Sales to subsequent
devaluation of its currency in terms of the U.S. dollar. Frankly, the results - although not surprising to this researcher - are overwhelmingly convincing.

The study shows the Currency Charts of the seven hapless major countries which sold a good portion of their Gold Reserves in recent years, thus causing substantial devaluation of their paper money.

The bottom-line conclusion is startling. You may read the entire study at the golden-eagle website - just delete the letters en in the word golden -

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:36 - ID#31868)
So if the USA let gold float to lets say $10,000 an ounce of gold and then tied the currency to that ounce as the global gold standard they would have both the world financial and military power in their control.

Nah, nobody down in Washington smart enough for that.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:36 - ID#197304)
Anybody heard this rumour regarding Homestake?

Has anybody heard anything about a New York based rumour that Homestake intends to launch a full bid for Macraes Mining, an Australian/New Zealand company that has large gold reserves ( 5 million oz's+. ) Come on you Aussie gold bugs give us some feedback. Could this be true?....

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:37 - ID#210235)
Well, I'm a NON Gloom-and-Doomer. But it sure does feel like Watergate times. And, if you remember. That spelled the end of one very nice party.

But then, it might be lousy weather and tax time. Could look much better on a silver beach with blue skies.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:37 - ID#187218)
Why it that we need to KEEP stripping the "en" from vronsky's URL ??????????????????????????????????

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:46 - ID#26793)
An earlier post you may have missed suggested that the currency of choice for Asia would be the Singaporean dollar. I don't know if they any gold backing or not.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:46 - ID#26669)
Interesting link for crackpots
I believe the name says it all. This is a webpage which lists blacklight power and a few other links. IMHO if palladium and platinum go up it will be due to mundane uses. But I may be wrong. The Wright family used to think of Wilbur and Orville as just two odd batchelor uncles.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:48 - ID#286262)
The biggest government

The biggest government
fraud ever?
Bill Clinton can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time. But can he fool all of the people all of the time?

We'll see. One of his tricks of the trade is to start so many brushfires that honest people just don't know where to start fighting the blazes. Look how quickly, for instance, people have forgotten about the controversy over the unexplained .45-caliber hole in Ron Brown's head since Monica Lewinsky came along.

Then people overlook the obvious abuse of a young intern by the most powerful man on earth because he may be guilty of the bigger crime of encouraging perjury. Clinton is always upping the ante - and always getting off the hook because there's no "proof" of the bigger crime.

Now, in the midst of all the scandals, he may be getting away with what one expert calls "the biggest lie in the history of American government." I refer to the bipartisan charade currently under way in Washington called the celebration of the first balanced budget in 30 years.

Let me state this bluntly and clearly: Clinton's proposed budget is not balanced - not even close. In fact, despite a sustained if modest recovery throughout his administration, the budget is no closer to being balanced than it was when he took over the presidency.

Clinton, with the aid and complicity of the Republican Congress and the establishment press, is perpetrating a massive fraud on the American people - maybe the biggest ever, suggests author Martin Gross.

It's really quite simple. And that's the beauty of this ruse. How has the government managed to close the deficit in recent years? By counting borrowed money as revenue. As Gross points out, if businesses did this, lots of executives would be rotting in prison cells right now.

In this case, the borrowed money comes mostly from the Social Security Trust Fund, which is, only temporarily, experiencing a surplus. In a few short years, everyone acknowledges, that same fund will be teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. But that's then. This is now.

The arithmetic is pretty easy to figure out. Last year, the Washington insiders declared the deficit was down to $22 billion. Yet, the national debt, a reflection of accumulated deficits, rose by $188 billion.

How can those two figures be reconciled? Easy. Just ask the bureaucrats who monitor such matters at the Department of Public Debt. They will tell you it's simply creative accounting designed to put the best spin on irresponsible fiscal policy. The difference is made up by borrowing money and counting it as routine revenue.

Preposterous but true. Where is Ross Perot when we need him? Where are his charts and graphs to awaken the American people from their slumber? Who's going to get under the hood and fix this?

There's little interest on the part of the Republican leadership. After all, wasn't achieving a balanced budget part of the Contract With America? Newt Gingrich obviously plans on taking credit for this accomplishment as much as Clinton and the Democrats do.

Instead, I say a curse upon both their houses. It's time someone showed some real leadership in Washington and called a spade a spade and a deficit a deficit.

I'm beginning to lose confidence in the American people. They are being taken for fools - and they are playing the part all too well.

But if Clinton and the Congress are equally responsible for this fraud - this flat-out lie and deception - the American news establishment bears a heavy burden of blame as well.

This deceit is so transparent! Yet the major media - from the New York Times to the Washington Post to the networks - happily go along with it. They graciously accept their scripts from officialdom and dutifully pronounce that black is white and red ink is black ink.

No wonder Clinton's poll numbers are so high. The American people are believing this crap! They are convinced that they have responsible, accountable leadership in Washington. Nothing, of course, could be further from the truth.

The tail is definitely wagging the dog - not only in the cover-up of the most embarrassing scandals in the proud history of the republic, not only when it comes to matters of war and peace, but even on simple matters of public policy, on simple matters of arithmetic.
Joseph Farah is editor of the Internet newspaper and executive director of the Western Journalism Center, an independent group of investigative reporters.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:48 - ID#285392)
APH We are indepted to to you again

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:52 - ID#26793)
Leaks by Starr could result in jail, fines or Letter of Reprimand if proved.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:58 - ID#26793)
Rudy Dornbusch of MIT predicts Russia and Brazil as next crisis spots.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:58 - ID#411259)
..... Do the Wave .....

Mike -

One of my favorite books of all time is, "Watership Down". It is a story of epic adventure and sweeping grandeur populated entirely by rabbits. Once you get you mind wrapped around the idea the heroes ( and villains ) are RABBITS, well........ its a cool story.

Rabbits are quite good counters, they can even add and subtract, but only up to five. They even have a word for it, but I forgot the word so you will have to read the book. 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - Over five. That's it, the entire mathematical system of rabbits. Perhaps those of us that mistrust these five wave thingies, have an a kind of primal atavistic memory and that anything over five is just too damn much to think about.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 19:59 - ID#28585)
Donald, if in fact Asian Monetary Union is effected, it must and will include Japan...

Therefore, if any currency were to be chosen as the standard currency, it would be the Yen.

However, I do not believe the Yen will be chosen simply because, it is imperative to start such a major economic venture with a clean slate.
There must be no negative associations or memories revolving around the currency selected as the standard. Most importantly, it must be ethnic-blind or neutral.

Ergo, the odds favor the creation of an entirely new currency. Like the EURO, this new currency will need special features to allow indigenous Asian populations and the rest of the world to place faith and trust in it and accept its long-term viability.

Again, I suggest you explore think tank economic papers being churned out
by various high-powered economic study institutes on the entire matter.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:00 - ID#156161)
What country would have the brilliant wisdom and daring to make gold it's currency and thus own the world? China's weak from so many years of a corrupt philosophy of governing. India also is limited by the way it governs itself. The MidEast appears too fractured from here in North America. Europe seems to have an opportunity forthcoming, but has been divided for too long. The US can't see far enough ahead to help itself. What new regional entity, yet to form, could accomplish this?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:07 - ID#28585)
Sig, it is true Argentina unloaded its gold and, so far, its currency has suffered no ill effects.

However, remember that the Argentinian sale is the most recent significant sale by a CB. Less than a year has passed since it occured.

In other words, the verdict is not in yet as to whether there might be negative repercussions to their currency.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:08 - ID#255284)
peering into the future to see the past?????


Just ask nicely, anyway, heard nothing about HM t/over and my ear has baked on the track-- However I have found some news about Macraes that will break on Feb 30 1998, I therefore claim the kitco prizes for
( a ) most accurate prediction
( b ) proof of remote viewing
( c ) Adding a random factor to the Calendar of February that most analysts are not yet ready for, long before Y2K --I'm a geddin ouda here
Macraes Mining Company's unaudited operating profit for the year ended December 31 has fallen to $5.6 million. This is before tax and abnormal items.
The result compares with a $23.63m operating profit in the 1996 financial year. Higher costs and lower output, rather than the poor gold price, caused the fall in the latest profit. The costs came from expansion work at the East Otago mine, and drilling and sampling at Reefton.
The company has its gold price locked in by hedging. At December 31, Macraes had locked in 690,000 ounces of forward sales with a close-out value of $NZ55m.
The latest result has been announced just as the world gold price shows signs of lifting from an 18-year low. It is now back to about $US300 an ounce. "It looks vulnerable at $US300, but if it consolidates, that will augur well for later in the year," the managing director of Macraes, Patrick O'Connor, said from Perth yesterday. The margin between the cost of extracting gold and price received was $NZ220 an ounce for the latest year.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:10 - ID#302251)
ANOTHER WW3 DIVERSION........The biggest government FRAUD

Spanky: excellent post

this is the full URL:


Date: Sat Feb 07 1998 19:48
Spanky ( The biggest government ) ID#286262:

The biggest government
fraud ever? ................

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:10 - ID#288295)
Metal Detectors..hmmmmmm

Playing off of Tolerant1's nice $10,000 gold idea ( and I think $500 silver to accompany it ) might be time to invest in a metal detector maker....think about it - a metal detector in every home...anyone know a public company that makes these things?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:14 - ID#411259)
..... Floods Abound .....


Bummer on the mud. We got 3" of rain in 1 hour yesterday. Along the San Juaquin creek, near where I live and work, was flooded in five minutes. The following picture was taken before the water topped out. At the peak, the car's roofs were barely showing. Got the Kayak inflated, provisions stocked, and I will go back to the wild in the hills and live off the land until the waters recede.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:16 - ID#57232)
A Crisis of Global Capitalism
All: Something to complement Donald's post about Russia and Brazil.

I don't know anything about this website source, but the article seems worth reading. R. Dornbusch is quoted.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:17 - ID#255284)
Metal Detectors
Here's a good start
BTW, you'll have to watch out for all the silver bits that used to be parts of body piercing things when trolling the beaches....

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:21 - ID#28585)
The wife and I hardly get out anymore but ventured out to a stuffy event house party with quite a variety of high powered entertainment industry execs and owners.

It was shocking to discover how many of them had not even heard of WB's silver move...let alone the details behind it. Obviously, too many of these people have been making money elsewhere to pay any attention to silver. Suffice it to say they were very intrigued to learn about WB's

The dissemination of silver news has only begun. It will probably kick into full gear once WB announces further details of his silver position
at the impending Berkshire annual meeting. It augurs well for a much greater upside move in the metal.

It looks safe to say that silver's explosion is only beginning and has at least another month to go before any substantive correction occurs.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:24 - ID#255226)
IDT - I'm not sure how long it would take to get to $11. It kind of depends on how long and deep this correction is. Most markets correct themselves in a 1/3 of the time it took them to go up. This one has lasted 30 weeks so a ccorrection lasting as long as 10 weeks could happen and another leg up lasting 30 weeks would put us at the end of the year. It's been my observation that a trending market ( any market ) gives you about a $10,000 move and then corrects. On a 5,000 oz contract the move from Jan at 540 to Fri's high of 750 netted $10,500 in gains. This thing is ready to correct.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:25 - ID#31868)
With all the military inventory and troops the USA has around the globe currently taking care of all those "trouble" spots, anybody home watching the hen house.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:31 - ID#255284)
Chemin de feu
I have been through floods, I sympathise, BTW, you'd not want to stick your ears on these either ;- ) )

Thank you, I like to know the limitations of my software, the degree of accuracy is most comforting.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:34 - ID#372344)
@ Old Gold.....
Re Hyman: I find it difficult to believe that you are in agreement with his
view that "markets do well in crisis" even with your interpretation that
it is because the Fed's will lower interest rates. I vividly recall the
market crisis of the 70's, when the US$ was being hammered, and
I don't recall the Fed easing rates, on the contrary, as I posted this
morning, interest rates went up to 22%.....I think he should not have
made such an open ended remark....true if Asia collapsed, the Fed
would leave as is or lower rates temporarily, but as soon as the US$
got wacked , you can bet he will raise rates, as high as necessary,
and I don't believe that Markets will do well when this crisis hits....
All of course JMHV.....

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:34 - ID#57232)
My post was from the Socialist Equality Party , NSW
All: Interesting site -- Capitalism from a different perspective. Reminds me of Pravda. I would guess that someone downunder might have some comments on what I posted.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:35 - ID#227238)
APH: It's interesting to consider your idea of total dollar profit related to a move. I have often thought about the same thing, though at a lower level like $5000 but never lent much credence to it because I have never seen it in print anywhere. ...... I will pay more attention to it in the future.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:37 - ID#210235)
@Where to put your money?
Looking for some numbers on the DJIA, as it's been awhile since I've read Barron's market analysis pages. Found some very pricey items there:

Walmart, with a P/E of 29.29 is yielding .63%.

Coke ( KO ) has a P/E of 40.23 and yield of .83%.

Disney, with a P/E/ of 37.44 has a yield of .49%.

This tells us, first of all, that these companies are only having to compete at the level of Japanese bonds. Who else is only paying half a percent?

I knew recent numbers were high, but didn't realize HOW HIGH. It used to be bible that a P/E of 25 was the death knell of a bull market, until Japan pushed the envelope in the late 80's, and we all know how that ended.

Anyone have some price-to book data or the DJIA P/E? The DJIA yield is averaging 1.65%.

This has got to be sending value investors looking for any other vehicle for their money. The PM's are looking mighty fine at current levels.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:39 - ID#288295)

I think you're correct - I went to a big flea market today and there were plenty of dealers offering ( junk and good ) silver coins for sale, but there is zilch interest from the public buyers ( at present ) for silver.

There was much more interest in the offerings from a hoard of 20 French Franc gold coins for a tiny fraction over spot gold ( which, BTW, I bought )

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:40 - ID#227238)
RJ: Exactly 2 years ago today, the flood of '96 commenced here in puddle city. We had 4.5 feet of water in the lower level of the house. .... A period I would not want to revisit anytime soon. Hope you avoid the unpleasantness.

Heavy Hitter
(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:41 - ID#403159)
This is why Great Britain does not want to join the EMU's new currency?
US and Britain are one. Correct me if I'm wrong.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:43 - ID#28585)
Apparently, the Californian El Nino effect has left Disneyland feeling mighty empty.

Oh, well, meteorologists are stating that the rains will probably only last another two to three months.

Do you think the rains might negatively affect Disney's bottom line?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:48 - ID#31868)
Disneyland getting hammered due
to the fact Asians can't afford to see Mickey and friends.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:49 - ID#255226)
$ 10,000 moves
Earl - Get yourself a weekly chart book and eye ball the bigger moves. In most cases they seem to have a larger degree correction when the profit from the move reaches about $10,000. You'll also find on average there are about 4-6 moves like this per year in different markets.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:49 - ID#411259)
..... Its a small world after all .....

.....its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world..

AHHHHHHHH. Don't get me started.


(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:51 - ID#60253)
In addition to this "What is the catalyst for the coming event and when will it happen ?"

Mr. WetGold,

One fine day, life in your world will change. The newspaper will show what has happened. In that day the price of oil will rise to, prehaps well over $100/bl if purchased with US$ alone. It will cost , perhaps $8.00/bl if purchased with an additional, tiny amount of gold. Perhaps, in a time before 2000, a new oil currency will be born! In that day, debts will burn and currencies will war, and you sir will, with honor, raise your standard of living with Gold!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:52 - ID#183109)


Last December the Argentine government sold ALL OF ITS 124 METRIC TONNES OF GOLD RESERVES. Reportedly, it bought U.S. T-Bonds with the proceeds. And although the Argentine peso is tied to the U.S. dollar by law, it is not the "paper-law" which determines how the world market will value your currency. Therefore, based upon the empirical evidence of this report, and supported by many decades of Banana Republic monetary history, this analyst believes there is indeed a high probability that the Argentine peso will convert to pasta. Furthermore, the likelihood of a massive Argentine peso devaluation increases exponentially if its major trading partner, Brazil, succumbs to the spreading Domino Effect - as are present indications.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 20:54 - ID#183109)

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:00 - ID#60253)
I don't know if I believe your post or not. Howerever, GOOD POST!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:01 - ID#372344)
@ James......You are indirectly promoting said stock.....
The following view is based on the facts you posted ,I know NOTHING about said company, I can tell you that Teck has a decent reputation in exploration. There is no doubt that there is some smoke there.....
Apparently there have been other favorable drilling results released from what I read....The drill holes are spaced about 300 to
400 feet apart, so that would mean that the width I spoke about is
potentially substancial....Also the fact that it contains a top level
Zinc Copper PM's, with a mid level low grade material, and a lower
level Silver zone argues for a replacement type of deposit, even
though it contains both stringers and massive sulphides.
However this may also be a part of the motherload "Black Smoker"
that was forced up by faulting ..and then maybe not, you get my point...
The question as to it's economic potential, at this stage of the game
is really not important, IMHO, I know of many Jr. explorers who
spined out favorable drill results over many months and years while their
shares went up in value, and never had a producing mine....
My experience in investing has been to only selectively "short"
that is when the risk/reward ratio was great. In this case from very
limited info, and from the view that Copper may be bottoming, if you
are short, the risk is to the upside, and it is unlimited! whereas the
reward is definitely limited on the downside, it can't trade below 0.
Although 1 out of 500? prospects ever becomes a mine, who has
X-Ray vision to see where the creator has hidden the motherloads....
Good luck.... disclaimer all this JMHV...go with YOUR instincts.....

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:06 - ID#307360)
Promethius: p/e's

The problem has been that the market blew through traditional valuation yardsticks over two years ago. If only one could time based on valuation measures!
Mark Howelesko ( sp? ) at Templeton noted in October that for the US market to return to the average valuation levels of the last 20 years ( p/e, p/book/dividend yield, etc ) it would have to drop 51%.
I also find it interesting that this record overvaluation is at the probable top of the earning/business cycle. Watch for p/e's of 75-100 on a lot of these companies not due to an increased "p" but a decreased "e".

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:11 - ID#28585)
Repetitious message "GO FOR THE GOLD" over all TV media should have tremendous international, positive psychological effect on the metal.

Look for a tremendous coming week in Au.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:20 - ID#26793)
@Farfel: Repost of Singaporean dollar story

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:24 - ID#41229)
SDR er: No comprende~
No habol~ Spanish

Unfortunately I'm limited and bond to one language currently at this time.......... Ebolics! {:+^[

Is what you are stating is China is 3rd in production?

Their reserves account less than 15% of world. What is left over after their consumption.

Only find outdated stats here is 95's results.

Mike Sheller
(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:26 - ID#347447)
"Mongolian Beef"

As promised a couple weeks ago guys n' gals, the lad in Shanghai has finally
replied with a recipe for this Kitco requested dish. Claims it's "authentic" as it
came from an old lady in Shanghai ( not a limerick! ) . Enjoy.

I quote my son Hank ( translated from the Mandarin ) :

" Here's a recipe for Braised Beef which may
also be what we call "Mongolian Beef" in English:

Courtesy of Wang Ayi:

Buy beef with some bones and/or tendons if available
cut the beef into cubes, size up to you
broil the beef cubes in boiling water for a "little while" and then remove
them from the water
heat up oil in a high frying pan/pot ( don't be stingy with the oil! )
add 2-3 tablespoons of white or red sugar to the oil and let the sugar melt
in the oil
after the sugar melts, put the beef cubes ( minus the water ) into the pan
and stir-fry, adding:
soy sauce
those little red star-shaped things ( I think the lad means ANISE ) that taste like
shit if you eat them straight ( don't know what they're called in English. Chinese is
Da Liao ) Stir-fry for a little while and then add hot water ( use the water you
boiled the beef in ) --add enough water to cover the beef and go a little bit
past it. Lower the flame and let the damn thing sit for half a day or however long
it takes for the beef to become super soft.
Salt to taste just before turning off the flame."

or substitute 5 rabbits.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:28 - ID#41229)
Is your warnings to us of something that may happen?, something you feel will happen?, or something that is in progress and you know will happen?

Heavy Hitter
(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:28 - ID#403159)
PH in LA
You must be one of the sheep. Say what you
want about LaRouche, but I think he stands
out. At least is not in deniel like 99% of the
people and is not afraid of facing the truth.
The world is basicly bankrupt and the piper
might be paying all of us a visit sooner rather
than later. Can't defy the law of nature forever.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:29 - ID#26793)
India silver users selling at these prices to buy back later and lower

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:33 - ID#257148)
Tie my Watership Down, sport
Mike Sheller, as in "You've read the Book. You've seen the Film. Now Eat the Pie.

Aussies, hope you can watch the cricket game on now from Lancaster Park, she's a beauty NZ batting first 71/1 after 16 overs...

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:35 - ID#26793)
Authentic Mongolian beef glows in the dark

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:40 - ID#41229)
Heavy Hitter
I think most of us on the sight know the world is broke, the only problem is the world yet does not know this, as soon as the World relizes, the confidence game is over. This is what Another eludes to, someone to say the Emperor not only is butt @ss naked but he has no palace either. The confidence game.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:42 - ID#26793)
Peruvian silver miner says it is "clearly overpriced at the moment"

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:43 - ID#187218)
As Mr. George Bush would say: "Let's get it on"!!!!!!!!!!!

How 'bout this scenario:

The West will not sit idle while this swap occurs. With there power, the West will finally take the oil and spark a new type of war - of which type -- we have not seen.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:44 - ID#411259)
Steam rising turquoise blue

roiling boiling aerated

Pay naught to voices who say

California is overrated

Some may prefer a Caribbean beach

Or coffee by the Seine

For me I'll take the California coast

And Jacuzzis in the rain



Does the cumulative effect of the transfer of kinetic energy of 40 minutes worth of raindrops falling on my head, amount to one big wallop in the head? Quick! Call the mathematicians.. Better yet. Call the Rabbits!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:45 - ID#187218)
Who is the "someone" if not the Emperor ??? Is this not one in the same ? Who is willing to tell himself the game is over when the game was created by the person asking and aswering the question ????

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:47 - ID#26793)
Kuwait activates 24,000 military reserves

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:50 - ID#252150)
Tzadeak & Chas
Tzadeak-I'm probably shorting the 1 in 500 that is successfull & will probably get stopped out early Mon. Thanks.

Chas- - there is also a thread on them in S.I.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:53 - ID#257148)
You made a "no comment" to my question about Korean CB in trouble with gold --- as far as I can see it is the only time you've given a no comment.

Do you know the "inside" real story about Korean CB difficulties?

Do you know which of the large gold merchant banks is/are also in trouble?

Would you kindly expand on the relationship between S Africa, the Middle East, and The Far East if it is more than trade arms for oil for gold for arms.

The journey to Kyoto takes 12 days, if you stop on the 11th night you will not see the moon over Kyoto.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:55 - ID#301318)
Gold collection ends...
BANGKOK, Feb 7 ( AFP ) - The Thai army has called off its
high-profile campaign to collect gold aimed at boosting the
country's foreign reserves after netting 93 kilograms ( 204.6 pounds )
of the precious metal, a senior army offcial said Saturday.
The "Go-for-Gold" campaign also netted Thai and foreign currency
to the value of 25 million baht ( 510,000 dollars ) from public
donations, army director of civil affairs Lieutenant General Lertrat
Rattanavanich said.
"The project was very sucessful as more than 14,000 people
participated in the campaign by donating. This shows that we are in
unity," he told AFP.
The army plans to send the gold to the Gold Corporation in
Perth, Australia, for smelting before selling it for dollars which
will be given to the central bank.
The army luanched the campaign, under the broader government-run
"Thais Help Thais" project, last month in a bid to boost the
country's dollar reserves.
An earlier army campaign called "Selling the Dollar, Deposit the
Baht" hauled in 550 million baht, the officer said.
Thailand's official reserves were depleted during a failed
defence of the baht prior to its effective devaluation in July last

Old Soldier
(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:57 - ID#185274)
Carriers and current capabilities

Refer 17:06 I do not know precicely how many more carrier battle groups we can deploy but it is probably between 0 and two more. The more we deploy, the less time they can remain on station together and the less ability we have to sustain a significant presence for a long time.

Putting most of our assets in the constrained area of the Persian Gulf is dangerous. When confined in a small area, carrier battle groups are at greatly increased risk as compared to on the high seas. Russian subs have nuclear torpedos. I doubt that Iran or Iraq have any.

The major point is that our extensive air campaign during Gulf War I did very little to damage Saddams chemical, biological, and nuclear capabiltiy. There is no way that we can now launch such an air campaign. Any expectation of great effect from current force capabilities is greatly exagerated.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 21:57 - ID#187218)
Is WB a player, "in-the-know-of-the-players", or knows the game of the players and is one of us in hopes to benefit from the charade ?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:09 - ID#342398)
James @ westerncopper
Many thanx, but I used and got no response. Is there a different prefix?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:10 - ID#41229)
Wetgold @ U.S. bully their way
I to took that stance, briefly. Think the senerio out, it would come to, mostly U.S. against the world. U.S. not real popular @ the moment, nor has been. U.S. is a whore to the world, U.S. has interfered in other countries business around the world by blackmailing, extorting, and paying off necessary individuals.

Americans seem to think of U.S. invinceible. What they do not realize is they have been sold out, truely americans have sold themselves out. Country bankrupt.

Would U.S. start nuking as a solution, that would be opening pandora's box. If we nuked Russia, France, China, and Arabs Infastructure would be gone, fallout inevitable, U.S. truely would be the imperlistic devil of the west, and even if U.S. could somehow defeat the main force of the coalition against ( which surely there would be nukes coming to U.S. homeland. ) It would show the world what democracy leads to.

Technically U.S. could be knocked off the top of the mountain, without a gun being fired. U.S. could be attacked on the financial plane, as soon as foreign countries stop financing U.S. debt., the population within the U.S. would do the rest, by the civil and social unrest from the ending of social programs

Heavy Hitter
(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:13 - ID#403159)
Can't say what these people on the site believe.
What people say and what they actually do are
too different themes. I firmly believe there is a
surprise just waiting to spring. Gold is the key
to financial security in the future. I am in deep
and I will stand by my decision to stay the
course with my gold investments. However,
I am not happy about doing it. But, I have no
choice if I want to protect my wealth. Nice
hearing from you and hope the price of gold
doesn't go too high. Not looking forward to
using my cannon.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:18 - ID#340459)
(USA will attack Iraq after Olympics, for posterity. Russia will be in the fray soon after. Clinton
will be a puppet to wrong forces due to his personal failings. Riots have started in Indonesia, may spread to Thailand and Korea. Year 2000 problems will create unprecedant Financial wreckage to the fragile paper wealth in Banks, Bill Clinton through War is lighting a fire while standing on a barrel of kerosene.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:19 - ID#345268)
Silver numbers don't add up ...

Kodak and Fuji are the main users of silver in photography and must have at least 80% of the photographic market.

Kodak using 60 million ozs of silver max, and Fuji not more than another 30 million makes one wonder who is using the remaining 145 million ozs in photography.

I question the 234 million ozs of silver use in photography, if Kodak is using only 60 mil. ozs.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:21 - ID#302251)
Heavy Hitter
Date: Sat Feb 07 1998 21:28
Heavy Hitter ( PH in LA ) ID#403159:
........ Say what you
want about LaRouche, but I think he stands
out. At least is not in deniel like 99% of the
people and is not afraid of facing the truth.........

I do not understand,
If the Trilateral went to all the trouble
of assassinating the Kennedys,
why didnt they do the same with Larouche ?
when he is exposing them daily ?

Heavy Hitter
(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:25 - ID#403159)
Excellent point you make. I think starting with the office of the President
this will mark the end of the current times and a new cycle to work it's
way in. We are going to self destruct within unless a miracle takes

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:27 - ID#31868)

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:30 - ID#433286)
First my thanks
First, I would very much like to thank you all for the many hours of pleasure and education you have provided me! Next I just purchased 5oz. AU today and will continue to do so as mood and money dictate. I am a small dollar investor and have been since doing some reading about fiat "money" in the early 70's. The argument given at that time convinced me that paper currancy --debt money was bound to fail and with my addmited lack of monetary knowledge I was and am "convinced" that is the likey case. Today someone ( excuse me for not giving due credit ) posted a 1948 work by the Hon. Howard Buffet that voiced the same thoughts held by me and I believe many others that I read and enjoy at this great site. My request is not to confront but yet I wonder when I read words written fourty years ago that could have been written today and yet the band plays on.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:31 - ID#187218)
I've said for many years that America does not have some divine spirit that looks over it and guarantees it to be in the 1st world - forever. Tell that to the peoples of Constantinople, Rome, and Athens. I believe I borrowed the thought from "JACOB BRONOWSKI" in one of his many books -- of course -- he places the syntax of every word so beautifully I feel embarrassed to put my name with his.

Let's assume the worst --- total market collapse and oil ( bad guys ) owners blantantly ( in-your-face ) telling you how they will pull the strings, pulling them, and telling you how they've done it for 30-40 years. With the populace in this kind-a-world let us imagine ...

1. "... mostly U.S. against the world... "
Response: I on't believe this will be so. U.S. and the world against oil extorters.

2. "... Would U.S. start nuking as a solution, that would be opening pandora's box..."
Response: The public opinion then will be much different. Look at how BCs ratings are despite the morality/legal problems. Keep money flowing ( toady=mutual funds, tomorrow=gold )

3. "... If we nuked Russia, France, China, and Arabs Infastructure would be gone..."
Response: Russia, France, and China will be allied with U.S. Arabs ( and oil producing states ) are the enemy.

4. "... what democracy leads to..."
Response: Another word that no one will care about. This word was used in the old days when Repubs and Dems needed an enemy to which to focus ( remember the "evil empire" ?

5. "... the ending of social programs... "
Response: Nobody will care about this shi?.

Heavy Hitter
(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:31 - ID#403159)
I don't know. But do you have a clue as to when
we can expect the toothfairy to come and save us?
Ziva, LaRouche is not God. If I read anything I
always read over some of it. I don't read word for
word. What do you do?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:34 - ID#344308)

check-out the euro-dollar puts........

the rates are going-up soon...... ( 90_day )

buying 10 june 940000 euro-dollar puts monday morning....

$37.50 premium........hell-of-a-deal...........

as are gold and crude-oil calls......the call is yours.....
the ride for all, if they know which train to board......

ALLABOARD-------wanna know? take the first step.....ask.....

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:36 - ID#220325)
When central Banks sell gold, their Currencies devalue.I am a Canadian and believe me we know the effects. We currently pay $1.45 for each American dollar and 2%-4% to have our money changed over to yours.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:49 - ID#342398)
James, got it
Sorry for last post. I isolated everything and it's the mouse. Sicking the cat on it. Many thanx again

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:49 - ID#41229)
Wetgold response

1. "... mostly U.S. against the world... "
Response: I on't believe this will be so. U.S. and the world against oil extorters.

Why are they extorters if they request to be paid in a different medium other than $, is it not their oil?

2. "... Would U.S. start nuking as a solution, that would be opening pandora's box..."
Response: The public opinion then will be much different. Look at how BCs ratings
are despite the morality/legal problems. Keep money flowing ( toady=mutual funds,
tomorrow=gold )

This is the opinion within U.S. does that mean the rest of the world has same view?

3. "... If we nuked Russia, France, China, and Arabs Infastructure would be gone..."
Response: Russia, France, and China will be allied with U.S. Arabs ( and oil
producing states ) are the enemy.

Again is it not their oil?, and their just stating, we prefer something other than $
4. "... what democracy leads to..."
Response: Another word that no one will care about. This word was used in the old
days when Repubs and Dems needed an enemy to which to focus ( remember the "evil
empire" ?

Are not we suppose to be the shining example for the rest of the world to follow?

5. "... the ending of social programs... "
Response: Nobody will care about this shi?.

Tell that to the people on them, which by the way is becoming the majority. Also how did Clinton get those high numbers after the Speech where he had all the giveaways if people don't care about them?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:52 - ID#41229)
Was wondering if you use a program like Option Vue?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:54 - ID#210235)
@More bargains for your portfolio!
Farfel, yes, at under a 40 p/e Disney looks too cheap. Never fear, I've found the Tiffany of stocks for those who want only the very best.

Here's the list. No p/e under 40. No price to book better than 8 to 1. No yield above 1.5%. 10 billion market cap. minimum. Only la creme de la creme for us serious investors.

Thor, I stopped following the S&P 500 stocks closely back in '94 when they got too pricey to be interesting as a group. Haven't even examined them closely in months. So much else to do. So looking at these numbers just has me shaking my head in amazement.

Remember, especially any lurkers who may not be on top of this information, book value includes such ephemeral assets as "Name brand recognition" and "goodwill". Pay 10 times that!

Gee, if I could find a buyer for my house at 12 times book I could retire.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 22:58 - ID#187218)
1. Popular opinion. Reality doesn't count during war.

2. When your economically devasted - yes.

3. The scenario ANOTHER posts is $100/barrel. How is it paid for ?

4. This is a position you and I take. Not the money changers.

5. When I say "no one care" I should emphasise that each will care for our OWN well being and not that of a political structure. ( Mad Max ? )

Of course we are only extrapolating on those ideas of ANOTHER and others. I honestly believed the Berlin Wall would never come down in my lifetime. BUT NOW -- it seemed so inevitable. ALSO- although most in the West talked of the inevitability of the demise of the Soviet stranglehold on millions we never really saw an end in sight. did we ???

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:03 - ID#345268)
Silver revenue numbers of mines uqualified

Earlier someone posted the following site which shows 1998E silver mine production and revenues from silver:

Be careful in interpreting silver revenue numbers in column 4. It is not indicated what price of silver was used in the calculation of revenue for 1998. Think about it. If $5 was used instead of $9 IT WILL MAKE A GREAT DIFFERENCE. Most of the numbers ( revenues ) can have an 80% error.

Psilver Psyched
(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:08 - ID#216217)
Myrmidon (Silver numbers don't add up ...)
My understanding is that the largest portion is used for medical films ( x-ray ) . Photos are usually large. These are not Kodak moments ( or Fuji ) .
Some of the projected 3% growth rate for 1998 is based upon the demographics of an aging population...

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:10 - ID#227238)
APH: Thanks for the confirmation. I will begin paying closer attention to the total dollar move. BTW, how many markets do follow? I follow the metals, obviously, and to lesser degree the grains.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:13 - ID#210235)
Correction to my last post
The results of my search didn't come with the URL. Should have figured.

Just for the record, the most expensive of the very large cap stocks is
LUCENT TECHNOLOGIES with a p/e 129.7, price to book 17.95, current yield .3. If you click on new search on that site you can turn your own hair grey. And for free. People are actually paying 18.2 times book for Microsoft, and how much do you think the WINDOWS and DOS product recognition are worth in their "Book value" billions, probably.

No wonder Warren Buffett has turned to metals.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:13 - ID#41229)
If you go back to some of my posts last month or two, I had the same questions as you to ANOTHER, infact I would say I was a little more brash. I think ANOTHER has a agenda, what it is not certain. It just happens to be a senerio or something somewhat equal plausable. In that the overall picture.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:17 - ID#302251)
Wetgold.....Re: ANOTHER
You may have noticed that ANOTHER is taking
who continue to deal with paper gold.

This time,
he is warning us very clearly:
IT IS SOON and in ONE day.

Date: Sat Feb 07 1998 20:51

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:17 - ID#210235)
Thanks for taking the time to explain to me about your oat options. I didn't answer 'cause the flu hit me like a freight train. It was 2 days before I got back to the computer.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:20 - ID#187218)
Someone had done us a real service the other day and gave a resume of ANOTHER:

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:21 - ID#345268)
Silver usage in imaging

@ Psilver Psyched:

That is wrong. Most of Medical imaging film is Kodak film. Just called Columbia's HCA x-ray dept. and they use Kodak film ( Columbia has approx. 350 hospitals ) .

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:22 - ID#60253)

Date: Sat Feb 07 1998 20:00

Forklift ( Another ) ID#156161:

What country would have the brilliant wisdom and daring to make gold it's

currency and thus own the world? What new regional entity, yet to form, could

accomplish this?

Mr. Forklift,

Your eyes are, no doubt more clear than mine. Stand here with me as we view this race of two! As in all things, it is a game for some and to others it be life and death. I would say, stop this effort, but it is late in history. So, make ready, as we will be here for the finish!

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:22 - ID#187218)
He's no doubt leaving the PHYSICALS to be of priority without question.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:24 - ID#344308)



i use technics and history......certain options scream for attention
with no more than 30 min/d.......realistic----ally------these suckers
are easy to spot......look at may oats.......tell can you
not make money on this scenario????

options and contrarism........turbo-charge your profits........e-mail
me for my weekly option calls and my ba!! can go any direction can succeed.......use your own mind.....
and listen to your eyes........they are and success = a better world regardless of how the success is acheived.....

when the student is ready the teacher will appear.......zap....
a genie with no bottle.........rub-it---------oh yeah.......

believer in the premise of god, family, and freedom......for all...........even the peopleo's.......awaken...take the first step.....
altruism..........and connectivity...the--straight-shoot-from-the-hip---aim-for-their-lip-dude----------slug-gun-owner---300gr@150yds-1-1/2'' pattern........
same as 100ozs gold hell of a heavy-hitter-----and
both needed to keep one another free....................

i'm he & he is me.........cherokee!;....planter-of-the-free-seed---

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:26 - ID#302251)
Date: Sat Feb 07 1998 23:13
refer ( Wetgold ) ID#41229:

..........I think ANOTHER has a agenda..........

I can not think of any manipulation scenario.
He obviously know something more than what he told us.
Maybe he just wanted to get something off his chest.
like U & me.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:34 - ID#187218)
Let's just ask him/her
ANOTHER: What's your agenda ???

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:36 - ID#302251)

Date: Sat Feb 07 1998 23:22

................ Stand here with me as we
view this race of two! As in all things, it is a game for some and to others
it be life and death. I would say, stop this effort, but it is late in history.
So, make ready, as we will be here for the finish!


''' is late in history...'''

You begin to sound like me.

The '''finish'''
is economic collaps ???
or WW3 ???

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:37 - ID#302251)

Date: Sat Feb 07 1998 23:22

................ Stand here with me as we
view this race of two! As in all things, it is a game for some and to others
it be life and death. I would say, stop this effort, but it is late in history.
So, make ready, as we will be here for the finish!


''' is late in history...'''

You begin to sound like me.

The '''finish'''
is economic collaps ???
or WW3 ???

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:42 - ID#344308)

just as big trader was a is another......

CONSIDER ALL THINGS..........and only then assertain
things relative to any big-trader-another-dummy------

called it before--------and now..........use your own mind....

ANOTHER is not needed........just a figment, as the real bernatz was...
mon frer' he is missed.....however....he was an
alter ego of a regular poster who i'll not name.......i'll name
another as i named big trader from the beginning...another big-dummy---

another, and big trader, as brx..........birds of a feather....i've told
you of all their true advance......

another sucker is born every minute....

NOBODY KNOWS AS MUCH AS YOU think they do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

take the first too ted!!!


(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:44 - ID#344308)

apo for the typo-----ascertain--------wow what a boner!


(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:47 - ID#227238)
Myrmidon: Although I don't deal in x-ray film, I am in the x-ray business. Kodak has been losing share for the past 2 decades. Mostly to DuPont and Fuji. They may have exclusive purchase agreements with large HMOs but I don't think they are anywhere near the dominant player they were in the 70s when they enjoyed at least 50% of the market. BTW, one half of the diagnostic radiography has always been done in offices, where the cheaper brands of film will predominate. Much of it produced off shore and high branded by small distributors in the US. ...... Also, the amount of silver used in a sheet of x-ray film has been steadily reduced over the years. I don't have a number for you but it's presently a fraction of what it was in the 70s. Image quality has degraded as well. But you can't have everything.

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:49 - ID#31868)
Is not silver used in weaponry, shells, mixtures for such?

(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:52 - ID#344308)


syntax has betrayed you.....and the ether.. ( only-took-3-days ) ------the jig[sic]
is up--------chill before the 'door' is opened....

har---har----har--------the worm has turned....PING...PING....PING.....


(Sat Feb 07 1998 23:58 - ID#260194)
3M Company was the largest x-ray film maker in the US. They had their
plant in the same vicinity as Kodak. 3M also makes all the off
brand film: Target, Kmart, Walgreen,Walmart etc. this flim is made
in Italy, shipped to the US in jumbo rolls and convereted in
Weatherford, OK.

3m used to recover the silver from scrap, when the price dropped
below $8.00 an ounce they discontinued this practice.

A couple of years ago 3m spun off this division and formed a new
company called Imation. Since I'm retired now from 3M I don't know
what's going on.

3m also uses a lot of silver and gold in it's electronic division
both in the US and overseas.