JTF
It is had to guess at predicting what is going to happen.
All I can see is lots of volatility - ever increasing.
And lots of effort being used to cover all the problems up.
I guess something will give soon.

Interesting watching the boys at work last night on the indexes.
The dow had about 25% of it stocks being propped with block orders.
These were the stocks falling.
The other stocks that where rising only needed a shove to get them up.
And all this happens when BC is going on TV.
Almost poetry in motion.

Some comments about MF's - IMHO
MF's will be the curse of this century when the dow falls.
The trouble with the MF's is that they have pyramided their profits
Using debt to balloon their positions.
And we all know what happens to pyramid schemes.

Say a MF starts up with $100 million and this grows to $500m.
It can then use $400m of its profits to buy $200m of debt which it then invests.
It now has $700m which grows to $1,000m with $200m debt.

And does it again.
So now the MF which started with $100 and has debts of $200m and profits of $700m.
So it borrows another $400m and has $1,400m in the market.
It is using its profits to buy debt to grow.
So now it has the $100m it started with and $600m debt and $700m profit.

If the markets correct 50% it now has assets of $700 and debts of $600m.
Which leaves only the $100m it started with.
And the MF will corner all of that.
When its assets fall it is left with debt.

The original investor is left with nothing.
All the Americans who have put everthing they have, all their life savings, all their super into this.
Could well end up with nothing.

What will start and cause the crash?
The MF's trying to lock in their profits when they realise that the markets are going down?
When they realise how locked in they are to an ever increasing market?
When they realise that if the don't lock in profits that they will go bancrupt?

Now I just showed a rough example to show pyramiding.
This example only has two steps and the debt/reinvestment figures are randomly picked.
Take some more exact figures and work out the power of ten steps.
Then these figures look real bad.

Now not only have they done this to their capital,
But they have also done the same to the stocks that they have invested in.
The pyramiding that has happened within the weighted indices is awesome.
It is a game of paper money begetting paper money.

There are more MF's than stocks.
And the whole system is built on pyramiding.

This is where a crash will be devastating.

Just recently we have had bad MF inflows and redemptions going on.
But the indexes where still going up.
I presume that one of the reasons that M2 was going up so fast is that the
Feds were supplying liquidity to the MF's.
This means that the Feds were lending money to the MF's so that not only could they met the redemptions but that they could also buy up the shares to keep the markets going high.
The Feds were meeting the liquidity shortage.
And the MF's were taking up more debt.

The biggest problem for the MF's here is that if their recently increased debt does not grow.
Imagine taking on a large debt just before the asset is devalued.
OUCH.
For the markets to have fallen recently would be devastating with all this new debt.
They must prolong the bubble bursting.
But that does not stop the bubble becoming even more dangerous.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mozel they were not my comments.
But wheat does look alright on a long term chart.
Lots of the commodities charts seem to be showing signs of trend reversals coming.

I hope & pray as well... it would be great for PM's ( that is, if Bagdad does not steal others GOLD and sell off to support his war, like what occured in the Gulf situation ) .

BUT hideous for the WORLD!!!!!

Take care... Barb

What the hell does he know about genocide? Only 500,000 children have died so far & they are only dying off at the rate of 5000 per week ( conservative estimate ) . At that rate the population is not being reduced, merely stabilized. Too many are surviving. We've got to get the death rate up at least another 2000 per week.

gold-------

http://www.digisys.net/futures/chart/fstwin21.gif

where's this sucker going?

Thanks again for the options info. Keep it coming! :- )

Anything but six copies of the same "daily" post...

ECM Report Part A & B

From: Greg
Category: ASX Reports
Date: 2/11/98
Time: 3:49:33 PM
Remote Name: 203.13.126.17

Comments

EAST COAST MINERALS NL ( ECM ) ( Company background ) Munni Munni J/V update & response to ASX enquiry
Announced on 1998/02/11 15:18:57. Part:A 353 words Status: Not market sensitive ( N ) Industry Sub Group: Mining
Investment ( 28 )

EAST COAST MINERALS NL 1998-02-11 ASX-SIGNAL-G

HOMEX - Sydney

+++++++++++++++++++++++++ East Coast Minerals N.L. 70% Legend Mining N.L. 30%

Assay results from the 13 hole underground diamond drilling program at the 82 metre level have now been received.

All but two holes returned high grade silver intercepts in excess of 0.20% silver ( 2,000ppm silver ) . At a gold/silver ratio of
42:1, 2,000 ppm equates to 48 g/t gold in ground. The maximum value obtained was 3.64% ag which equates to 867 g/t gold.

The small drilling program proved a high grade silver mineralisation, recently exposed in the 82m level exploration drive, to
extend horizontally for at least 35 metres on this plane.

This program was directed towards defining the boundaries of the previously reported ore "Shoot 30" and finding its
relationship to the adjacent "Shoot 25".

They now appear to be in the same mineralised zone. All other identified zones were not explored in this program. Figure 1
gives a section showing the location of other zones.

In reference to the Stock Exchange's enquiry of Tuesday 10th February 1998, we reply as follows:

1. THE DRILLING METHOD USED AT ELIZABETH HILL WAS UNDERGROUND DIAMOND DRILLING OF THE
13 HOLES.

METHODS OF SAMPLE PREPARATION:

The assay laboratory used is Analabs. The consulting chemist used is Mr Murray Chapman, in conjunction with the consulting
geologist who has a chemistry degree and relevant experience.

Samples were quartered and one quarter of each section was submitted for a variety of assay techniques. Samples with no
visible silver were assayed using standard atomic absorption ( A.A. ) assay techniques.

Samples with visible silver were submitted to the following assay techniques.

The core samples were crushed and ground, followed by splitting of the coarse ( +80 micron ) and fine ( -80 micron ) fraction. The
coarse fraction was assayed in its entirety using a fire and gravimetric technique ( such coarse grained fractions range up to 10%
of the sample ) . The fine fraction was split to 50 g, which was again assayed using the fire/gravimetric technique.

2. THE EXACT LOCATION, DIP ANGLE AND AZIMUTH FOR EACH DRILL HOLE COMPLETED IS ON THE
ATTACHED TABLE 1.

MORE TO FOLLOW

PART B

EAST COAST MINERALS NL ( ECM ) ( Company background ) Munni Munni J/V update & response to ASX enquiry
Announced on 1998/02/11 15:28:18. Part:B 644 words Status: Not market sensitive ( N ) Industry Sub Group: Mining
Investment ( 28 )

EAST COAST MINERALS NL 1998-02-11 ASX-SIGNAL-G

HOMEX - Sydney

+++++++++++++++++++++++++ 3. STYLE OF MINERALISATION

The deposit is characterised by several different types of silver mineralisation.

a. VEINS

Veins of silver range up to 5cm wide and form a stockwork throughout the body. Within the exposed underground sections
about twenty such veins are known. Individual veins have been followed for up to 2m underground. Although commonly
occurring with calcite, the ore also occurs in ultramafic rock. Vein grade is in excess of 90% silver. The silver tarnishes quickly
upon exposure to air due to contained silver sulphides.

b. WIRE

Wire silver - calcite type host rock has been recorded. Individual zones range up to 0.6m wide and have been followed down
plunge for about 20 metres. The grade of this is between 30% and 40% silver.

c. GLOBULES

Globules of native silver have been found in ultramafic host rock, occurring as small ( up to 1 cm in diameter ) spheres where
when found they form about 10% of the rock volume.

d. DENDRITIC

Dendritic or fern like pieces of native silver up to 5cm long have been noted, especially within ultramafic rocks.

e. DISSEMINATED SILVER

Disseminated Silver occurs throughout all rock types within the ore zone. Occasionally this silver has crystallised into cubic
crystals up to 1cm across.

f. SILVER/NICKEL SULPHIDES

Silver nickel sulphides such as argento pentlandite, sternbergite and argento pyrrhotite occur throughout all rock types. These
sulphides more commonly occur at the base of the Munni Munni complex. Here zones have shown up to 2% nickel, with silver
grades from 0.3% to 0.5%.

g. SILVER, COPPER SULPHIDES

These occur throughout the mineralised zone and are more commonly associated with calcite or quartz veins.

h. ARGENTO GALENA AND ARGENTO SPHALERITE

Both the above minerals are rare within the ore zone. They do occur as an outer ring to the mineralisation but only within calcite
and quartz veins.

STRUCTURE

The silver occurs in a body which follows the basal section of the Munni Munni intrusion. Within this body a number of distinct
ore zones of high grade silver occur ( See Figure 1 ) .

One of these zones, the "30 Shoot", has been entered via the 82 metre shaft.

The mineralised zone here is 40+ metres x 25 + metres x 20 metres in dimension with the body still open down plunge and to
the east. Within the mineralised zone the silver values vary widely from about 0.2% up to almost pure silver ( 98.5% ) in veins,
with again, the higher grades being further defined by ore shoots.

So far four other mineralised zones are known between this level and the surface ( see Figure 1 ) . Around the base of the Munni
Munni Complex a number of similar structures with associated silver anomalies are known but as yet not explored.

4. During assaying up to 10% of the sample after crushing is coarse grained. This is due to the panel beating effects of crushing
on native silver. As discussed above, methods are being devised to overcome this and are continuing to be developed.

5. The consultant to the Joint Venture is Mr Greg Barnes, B.Sc., Dip. Ed. A. IMM of G.B. Barnes & Associates of Perth.

L White CHAIRMAN

Information in this report which relates to geology and mineralisation has been based on data compiled by G.B. Barnes, B.Sc.,
Dip.Ed. A.IMM, who is a Corporate member of the Australasian Institute of Mining and Metallurgy and who has the relevant
experience as a Competent Person as defined in the Australasian Code for Reporting of Identified Minerals Resources and Ore
Reserves in relation to the mineralisation being reported on. This report accurately reflects the information compiled by the
person.

A full copy of this announcement, including tables and maps of tenements, is available at the ASX Investor Centre in your state
capital. For further assistance, contact ASX Customer Service on 1 300 300 279.

PREACHER MAN....REMEMBER ONE THING....ONE SIMPLE UNYIELDING MAXIM...ONE PERSISENT TRUTH IN OUR INVESTMENT UNIVERSE!!!

IN THE LONG RUN, THE LITTLE GUY IS ALWAYS WRONG!!!! ALWAYS!!!

Intel execs file to sell stock

More than $70M in stock registered for sale by Intel executives, directors

February 10, 1998: 6:51 a.m. ET


Intel

SAN FRANCISCO ( Reuters ) - Several top Intel Corp.
executives and directors have filed to sell big blocks of shares in the world's largest chipmaker, according to documents filed
with the Securities and Exchange Commission in recent days.

According to filings, the biggest block of stock being sold is by Frank Gill, an executive vice president and head of Intel's small business and networking group. Gill filed to sell
390,664 shares, valued at $30 million.
Leslie Vadasz, Intel's fourth employee, now a director and senior vice president in charge of business development, filed to sell 250,000 shares, valued at $20.4 million.
Arthur Rock, a director and one of Intel's initial venture capitalists, filed to sell 58,000 Intel shares, with a value of
$4.8 million. Max Palevsky, a retiring director, and Gerhard
( Gerry ) Parker, executive vice president and general manager
of technology and manufacturing group, both filed to sell
50,000 shares, valued at $4 million.
Intel's No. 2 executive, Craig Barrett, president and chief
operating officer, filed to sell 100,000 shares, valued at $7.8 million.
Vice president and treasurer Arvind Sodhani filed to sell
25,500 shares valued at $1.9 million and director Charles
Young filed to sell 3,000 shares at $237,937.

MOIS ( we can do better than that )

As the market is closed for 12 hours or so the full report will propably posted to

www.hotcopper.com.au wher i got the early report

Bloomberg is also carring it

later I will have it available from

jsmith@wire.net.au --should you be interested

can be done in gif, pdf, doc or winfaxpro format

I expect some manipulation from AMAX stockholders to start buying Kinross stock to drive Kinross up, something like $6 per share, which in turn will relate to AMAX at $4.80, then selling AMAX at this price and staying with Kinross.

For example, if some AMAX stockholders like me put 30% of our AMAX worth into Kinross then if I own 50,000 AMAX shares now worth $150 K, and I take $30K and buy Kinross, I drive Kinross up, dump AMAX at $4.80 which is $1.80 profit per AMAX share equal to $90 K and stay with Kinross. It will not take many AMAX owners to figure this out.

Cherokee: Your linked chart appears to have a 7 day flat top ( Elf ) triangle, which often breaks to the flat side. All indicators seem to be reset for another run up. ..... MACD appears to be producing a shallow rounding bottom and the RSI appears to be completing an interim correction. ..... Is that what you see? It's what I see but what the hell do I know?

They have to send the kids to college, better than taking a 125% loan on the mansion.

may we all profit but, be held safe from the wars of our own human kind..
barb

reported a 90% increase in profit to R182m for the 6 months end-December.

Earnings came in at 293c per share. The dividend was doubled to 60c a

share. Costs of sales were contained to an 8.6% increase, while sales

rose to R1.6 bn. Implats warns the 2nd half results would not match the

first half.

James, if you're hesitant to invest in a gold company because of concerns regarding "nationalization," then you best divest yourself of ALL gold producers. There are very few if any that do not invest in relatively unstable countries ( esp. S. America, Africa, and S.E. Asia ) that, at any moment, could move down the path of nationalization.

Unfortunately, large gold deposits rarely are found in America anymore. Of course, when they are, it is usually in Nevada. FYI, Nevada is controlled by the gaming corporations and, although they do not nationalize gold corps. there, nonethess they can extort gold producers in their own unique way.

too wasTED to light the match ( I've let everyone down and should be punished ) What kinda 'keeper of the flame' am I ( huh )

I believe the bottom line for the DOW to go up or down is greed and fear. I don't think it used to be that way. Older investors looked at figures, prospects, etc. Now, we have the average investor that has a 3 or 4 year history of a continuous Bull Market. They don't know what it's like to loose money. They have money going into MF's automatically which keeps the market's propped up ( I loved reading sharefin's post on higher DOW and a critic of MF's. I believe MF's stabalize the market for short moves in either direction but watch out if the average investor begins to sell. ) What it will take for people to become more fearful is a bigger move up on the DOW to the point where everyone is so far out on a limb that it breaks but I don't think that point is yet. There is too much momentum in this Bull. Seasoned Investors are selling, the average investor is buying. They don't know any better. Watch out below when it breaks though. I think the DOW will have to hit at least 8500 before we get a 100th monkey effect and the "average investor" wakes up and panics.

some 'fun' reading-----

http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/content.htm

Was it on your news that Clinton and Gore met privately with the 150 Dem members of Congress for about two hours outside of DC today ? Circling wagons. There can be no impeachment without some of these votes. I don't know why JTF wants to deceive the peopleo by concealing high crimes, but I say let truth prevail though the heavens fall.

There is no guarantee the target company share price will move up in exact synchronization to the acquiring company. Often, they move out of synch to each other.

I think your scheme is "interesting" and elaborate, although probably not practical. Moreover, you need the co-operation of all Amax holders to realize your maneuvre. I am not sure that is likely. There are bound to be a fair number of Amax shareholders that will sell Amax for cash with no intention of buying Kinross stock.

BART: I think you could limit the length of posts to something reasonable like 2 screens worth and that all copies of prepared text should start with the URL that they were copied from. Screen after screen of stuff supporting conspiracies and multple URL's is easliy scrolled through but who wants to bother.

It's not only the democrats that have to vote him out, the republicans may not the time where a decision has to be made. Clinton didn't have all those FBI files for nothing, thats his trump card.

earl----

looks weak......imm....

i'd never short gold.........

Kinda like readin Grimms Fairy tales before retiring to the boudoir...eh

sharefin: I think you are wrong about US mutual funds. I don't think the mutual fund managers can leverage by taking 'paper' profits and buy more equities or other 'assets' withour selling the assets. Can you direct me to something that says this is possible? I also know that mutual funds are strictly forbidden to invest more than a few percent in options, with the exception of Rydex ( Rydex URSA ) .

I do know there is talk about permitting US banks to use investors equity holdings as collateral for loans, etc. --- I think this is part of the new banking rules. That would not be good.

About 1/2 of my assets are at Fidelity ( 403b ) - where I can only choose mutual funds or treasuries. There are many choices, but precious metals and foreign currencies are not considered 'safe' enough for a 403b. Precious metals stocks are 'ok'. I have read their prospectuses, and there is no mention of borrowing off of my accounts. My hope is that if the market 'tanks' all the mutual funds would drop inproportion to their equity holdings.

I also hope that we will see such a major correction coming, and bail out of gold stocks and other equities before the market Tsunami crashes. The Weiss newsletter not too long ago rated mutual funds, and rated Fidelity Spartan US Treasury as one of the safest on the US markets -- the one I always park my funds in!

Take care -- we should be cautious in all things -- you live longer that way!

For Farfel..
Fail to discover BRILLANCE in Kinross "takeover" of
AMAX. Does it go like this .. Amax shareholders get 0.8
shares of NEW Kinross stock ?? I assume so.
Kinross end 3rd quarter had net assets/share of $3.34.
with Amax at $2.51. ratio was 0.75 .. so a 0.05 sweetener
to amax shareholders to shut them up.
Looking at costs through end 3rd quarter.
amax ( revenue 191 + loss 25 ) /.513 ( gold produced )
= $420/oz
I can only find 6 mill oz of resources without Kubaca.

Kinross ( revenue 127 + loss 29 - 24 writedown* for
Macassa ) /.353 = 373$/oz
* ( note Kinross operation consists of lots of small
operations all over hell - they had a similar
writedown for golden kopje-obvious misnomer- in
Zimbabwe prior year... this kind of thing looks
like cost of doing business )
Kinross seems to have almost no resources .. I have
eight locations ( 2 written down ) with only 3 mill oz??
Is this some kind of a joke??
Kinross has cash. They chose to use it to pay off
kinross' deadly debts .. But hark .. they have 192
mil cash ..amax have 213 current liabilities and a
thumping 369 mil long term ???. Hmmmm.

Lotsa luck farfel.. old boy... are you really buying
with both hands?.. Im sure this will be a real character
building experience. These are 2 uncompetitive gold
mining companies with hardly any reserves between them,
a punishing debt, and no prospects. They joined forces
to cry on each others shoulders. There are no synergies
beyond bailing out soon-to-be-bankrupt-otherwise amax
and providing Kinross with an added whiff of gold
reserves.
Suggest buy newmont or even Barrick if you dont
mind the poor white trash management.

Mozel: What else have you heard? I would be happy just to have our government cleansed of the corruption. If full disclosure is necessary, so be it, but that would not be pleasant.

Kinross trades an avrg of 24,000 shares per day. If some AMAX owners decided to buy 10% of the KGC shares ( 12.5 mil. shares ) it will take only
$50 mil. to probably double the KGC stock price ( thinly traded, hence easy to manipulate ) .

These few smart AMAX guys then dump at $4.80 AMAX, and Kinross too.
Prices dive in both stocks and then they buy back. For the fun of it I will start buying KGC tomorrow, because the above scenario IMHO will happen.

Easy money with low risk.

The ole Loonie is lookin a little sick t'nite so guess I ain't the only skeptic and now Bouchard and his fellow BUFFOONS plan a big rally next week....Like I've said ( probably 5,000 times ) I can't wait till I can read my Wheaties box without damn french ( lower case ) on it~~~~~

MF can leverage by leaps

EB has died in a massive California mud-slide ( god bless his soul ( even if he ain't a g'bug ) ----go gold~~~~~~

Look what's happening in B.C.....now just imagine what's happening in California.

VANCOUVER SUN
February 10, 1998

B.C. housing industry hits major slump

Bruce Constantineau and Petti Fong Vancouver Sun
House construction throughout B.C. fell to its lowest level in 15 months in January as the industry suffered the
effects of a slowing economy made worse by the Asian financial crisis.

Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. reported Monday that housing starts in B.C. urban areas fell 24.7 per cent
in January to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 18,900 -- the lowest point since October 1996.

CMHC said the drop reflects a reduction in condominium and rental apartment construction throughout B.C.
CMHC analyst Peggy Prill said weak job growth in B.C., combined with slowing exports to Asia, are the main
factors behind the stumbling housing market.

"There's also some outmigration to Alberta taking place, which reduces population growth in B.C. and reduces
the demand for new housing," Prill said.

"Housing starts are 25 per cent below where they were, but until there's a correction in the B.C. economic
environment, there's no justification to build any more," added Vancouver economist David Baxter.

CMHC forecasts B.C. housing starts will fall by six per cent this year to 27,600 units, and by a further two per
cent in 1999 to 27,100 units.

The recent ice storm in Central Canada caused national housing starts to fall four per cent last month to an
annual rate of 142,700 units. But analysts say Canadian housing starts would have been five to 10 per cent
higher without the storm and they expect delayed starts will materialize in February and March.

Nesbitt Burns chief economist Sherry Cooper said a different kind of storm is battering B.C.'s housing market.

"The western-most province is clearly the most vulnerable to the Asian turmoil and its economy is suffering,"
Cooper said.

However, Greater Vancouver Home Builders Association representative Peter Simpson said builders are not yet
overly concerned about the recent falloff in activity.

"We're on a plateau now, but all factors point to a recovering market in the next year or two," Simpson said.
"There's no big demographic problem or interest-rate problem. Everyone seems to point to the negative climate
for growth in B.C. right now and that's affecting everything."

Lower Mainland house sales fell by 40 per cent on the Multiple Listing Service last month and most realtors
blame declining consumer confidence caused by concerns about the economy. A recent study showed the price of
the average house in Vancouver has fallen by about 11 per cent in the past year, to $337,000.

Simpson agreed B.C. house prices have fallen in the past year, but said that trend will eventually encourage
more buyers to enter the market.

Housing construction showed signs of slowing as early as last summer, said housing analyst Frank
Schliewinsky.

"People expected it to pick up in the fall, but it didn't. Only now are we saying that housing has slowed,"
Schliewinsky said Monday.

A drop in housing starts forewarns of lower confidence in the economy, which will eventually hit auto sales and
retail sales, he said.

In the Greater Vancouver area, some markets and demand remain strong, like Vancouver's west side and the
North Shore, Schliewinsky said. Even before the loss of Asian investors, Schliewinsky said B.C. was going to
suffer a five- to ten-per -cent reduction in housing starts because of the province's economy is slowing down.

Eventually, if the housing starts continue to drop, Schliewinsky said there will be layoffs at property
development companies, and some of the smaller operations may close.

refer: Aren't the MF's Hedging limited to 3% or so in options per MF account? I think this rule is very strict -- and I assume leaps would be included. I only remember Rydex URSA as being able to do more than that 3% or so. Am I wrong?

Kinross proven reserves:

Gold: 4.5 mil ozs
Silver: 22.5 mil ozs

http://www.kinross.com

To themissinglink: I don't want you to get hit with the blame when we start charging money for bandwidth consumption. It's become something that we HAVE to do keep this site going. The data transfer cost of maintaining our group is high and getting higher. Banner ads also might start popping up soon, but I don't know about here.

I thought I made my point re advertising clear. I'm convinced that if people come visit and see everyone else promoting their websites, they'll all jump in and I'll soon have to change the header to "Flea Market for Gold Investors & Market Analysts".

You said: "I am often surprised that you do not jump in and offer your goods when the conversation comes up." - I would. But then to be fair I'd have to tell myself to stop advertising. In fact there are several bullion dealers who post here, none of whom try to exploit the medium. This aspect of our group is a uniqueness that you won't find in many groups on the net. And I think it's a desirable one.

To Ziva: I ask you again. Why do you persist in promoting that stratferd.com site ? ( or whatever it's called ) I'm not trying to be facetious, but I am sincerely curious. You say you've got no financial interest in it and you've said you would stop, and yet the URL still remains imbedded in your message ( s ) .

Hey, if it works, very nice. Personally, I think there are too many complexities for your scheme to succeed.

For example, how do you control the POG which could skyrocket overnight?
Such a macro-factor is beyond your control and could subvert your master plan to try and maneuvre Kinross stock downward.

But who knows?

Now Ted you are just going to have to learn to be more flexible. I was almost 14 before I could read the French on my Corn flakes and it hasn't hurt me a bit. Personally I like to have French everywhere and I expect it will remain on the Corn flakes boxes as well as on my VCR manual even if Quebec --or a third of current Quebec -- separates and saves the rest of us 5 billion a year. Don't forget there are lots of French speaking people in Toronto Windsor Winnipeg, New Brunswick, Prescott--lots of places and they all got into the Constitution through the guarantee of French on their corn flakes. We also get to hear Kermit, Al Bundy. Bugs and the Simpsons in French--you're going to miss that opportunity in New England.

And I don't think I'll miss a thing in Maine ( I've seen more than enuf,thank you ) ---g'nite---gotta get my beauty sleep ( takes a while...eh )

Farfel, you are making a bigger deal of Intel's directors selling stocks than there is. The game works like this. As a part of your compensation you receive an option to buy a stock at below the market value. The option is valid for a few years and eventually you have to exercise it. To do that, you need to come up with cash to buy and fulfill your tax obligation. To do that, most of people sell stocks to exercise the buy option and pay teir tax bill on this option. So effectively, what looks like a sell off, may mean that they just increased their stock ownership. Been there, done that, got that t-shirt.

http://www.exchange2000.com/~wsapi/investor/reply-3383899

I studied in Cambridge UK, at he same time when Clinton was in Oxford, however, I did not have the "privelege" to meet the guy, Thank God. He would have persuaded me for a visit to Russia.

But think of it. Triple interest for Kinross stock to go up.
Cyprus AMAX, Kinross, AMAX, all want it up, then lets do it. If
it goes up without gold up, I get out of both AMAX and Kinross and wait.

First major error: Did you know Cyprus Amax is paying off the Amax debt?

Of course not because, as resident Kitco cynic, you have zero interest in discovering pertinent details regarding the merger.

I could address a litany of other "false" issues you have raised...but given your lack of focus, it is not worth my time.

P.S. Did you know your namesake ( DISNEY ) trades at over a 40 times P/E?
And even funnier than that, with all the rains in California, there ain't nobody visiting DISNEY-land!!

farfel,

Despite the influence of the gaming corporations in Nevada, I would rate it a much safer place to invest than Russia.
Concerning North America, may I remind you that most of the great deposits found in the 90s were here. The Diamet diamond discovery, the Diamondfields nickel discovery, and now the Teck/Western Copper polymetallic discovery ( I'm stretching it a bit by including Mexico ) .
Also, in the works right now are the potential huge discoveries of Cross Lake Minerals in Ontario and Voisey Bay II by Teck/Donner/Northern Abitibi. And this is to say nothing of the current rage, the Alberta diamond play.
I realize that Lyndex has hit it big in Spain and Bema hit it real big in Chile. But North America has some great deposits and some others yet to be found.
Play it safe. Play North America.

The Preacher

I lived there seven years.

Sorry, but I'd take my chances with Russia over Nevada ( and gaming interests ) anyday!

that Ziva's husband takes the little lady on a swashbuckling tour of the world, away from all those terrible biological agents, that may invest us and most hopefully a land without a single internet service provider, but with sufficient facilities to keep her from hopping on the next sea plane back.

...for tax reasons.

Now, do you have any more jokes to tell me??

farfel,
I guess tonight is our night to be on opposite sides.
Concerning the bull market, as James Dines likes to say: "There's nothing more bullish than a new all-time high."
For more reasons than I'd like to mention, I would profit from a primary bear market. But it's not here. Both the Transports and the Industrials are now in record high territory.
Again, after taking six months to make a new high, I think there could be a lot of pent up strength in the bull right now.
Now IBM doesn't look very good and that may be an indicator. But as of now, with everything that's going on factored into the market, we have just made a new all-time high in the Industrials, confirming the recently made all-time highs in the Transports. And to me, that's mighty bullish.

The Preacher

...as in BULLSH__T!!

Ted: In the last general election in Canada you could have voted for the Communist Party--betcha can't do that in Maine

farfel,
I go to Las Vegas twice a year ( revivals ) , but you are correct, I have never lived in Nevada.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the relative merits of Russia and Nevada.

The Preacher

I'm unable to locate my leaps packet that was sent to me, it was filed next to my Ken Roberts crash course. I must of loaned it to someone, I never pursued that line of investments. Not sure what the limitations are, or if they would list MF limitation in the information booklet I received. They would have to be the sellers of the contract though. If 3% is limit, that is at the time of selling of contract, since this would be leveraged, if stock that they sold a contract on, a move against them in a big way would of course cause margin call. If MF would not have cash to cover, they would have to liquidate other positions. Of course this is a extreme example but if a crash was to accure this situation would add fuel to the fire of the crash.

I'm unable to locate my leaps packet that was sent to me, it was filed next to my Ken Roberts crash course. ( Man, I need to clean my office! ) I must of loaned it to someone, I never pursued that line of investments. Not sure what the limitations are, or if they would list MF limitation in the information booklet I received. They would have to be the sellers of the contract though. If 3% is limit, that is at the time of selling of contract, since this would be leveraged, if stock that they sold a contract on, a move against them in a big way would of course cause margin call. If MF would not have cash to cover, they would have to liquidate other positions. Of course this is a extreme example but if a crash was to accure this situation would add fuel to the fire of the crash.

OK to go to Vegas, but preachers should stay out of gambling.

Since we have a discussion going on about something other than religon can anyone tell me if Dakota mining is a viable mining company. In your own personnal opion.

Dennis: Apparently some people think so. It traded over a million shares today. Mostly unchanged.

Is the price still about .22 cents? Have you seen anything about their Enviromental Imapact study.

John, I'm interested in your opinion again.

Look, we had that article on Russian platinum.
Everybody, at least, at Kitco, was concerned
that it will cause plunge in PL price. In
fact, and at least for now, it really didn't
happen. Some small lose of $8-9/oz was probably
triggered by some unprofessional selling. At this
time it looks like recovery is underway...

There are two explanations:

1. Nobody trusted this article, including BIG TRADERS.

or

2. BIG TRADERS already knew that output ( sales ) was much
higher than officially recognized, and this knowledge was
already factored in the PL market. Some of these BIG TRADERS
were actually buying this extra PL in the past, as I believe.

Any comments on #2 or you stick with #1. Just curious...


Your still curious brother Oris - The Platinum Man
----------------------------------------------------------

P.S. Ziva received Givarton, and this old lady is so busy
testing it on herself, that she decided to cut her
zivastation of this site to only one triple 7,500 words
post per day. Great news, I think....

How can it be for tax reasons the selling? Didn't you know that it is early February now?

If it was November then I could believe you. So these execs are going to sit in cash for 10 1/2 months because of tax reasons?

No my friend, they are abandoning the ship.

FT Wed Feb 11, 1998
Yeltsin unsteady on Roman stage
President Boris Yeltsin yesterday gave an unsteady performance on the
second day of his official visit to Rome, failing to dispel concerns about the state of his health.During a series of meetings with Romano Prodi, the Italian prime minister, and later with Pope John Paul at the Vatican, Mr Yeltsin avoided making any gaffes of the kind that had marked the start of his visit,when he suggested that Kofi Annan, UN secretary-general, was on his way to Baghdad to mediate over the Iraqi crisis.

refer -- Thanks for info! I should look into what you have said -- some of those Fidelity prospectuses are pretty detailed, though I think only a lawyer would understand them. By the way, if all the 'smart' money is leaving the markets, and the people who are still in are heavily leveraged in some manner -- our market bubble could pop fast enough to bring down all equities in a conflagration of paper! Hope us little gold bugs are nimble enough to avoid that Gold bug Tsunami before it crashes! Sure looks tempting as a gold bug to invest now -- but the return will probably be better after the crash -- which might not necessarily be this year or the next -- though I find that hard to believe. Watergate brought down the markets fairly slowly, and gold rose ---lets hope it happens that way, and not a la Black October, 1987.

Miro spoke sooth. On the other hand, there is no doubt that the stock market is in that phase euphamistically known as the "period of distribution", where the pros sell to the little guys.

G'day all. This message is mainly for Aussies and others willing to bet in the Aussie casino... err...penny dreadful gold market. No reason, however that it shouldn't work elsewhere.

The message is this--why buy options on gold?? They EXPIRE and if your strike price is not exceeded--you lose the lot!!!

Here is an alternative. There are several wannabe gold miners on the Aussie market that have heap-big exploration ground but ain't got no cash -- AND -- they are going for peanuts!!! I mean 1 cent--2 cents/share or less!!!

I am buying up xxxxx $$ worth of these little fellers with my "lose it all or make a million money."

Now if gold goes down , some will go bust--you lose it all. Some will go into hibernation and pop up again when the gold climate warms up.

Now if gold goes UP -- let's not be greedy--say $350 average for 1998--there are gonna be some ten baggers in this lot!!! Hell --there are one and two cent-ers that will go to a buck.

Now the discipline will come in when you want to sell them for a 100% or 200% profit. EASY--when they double--sell half. Forget about the rest. You can join me on the French Riviera when gold hits $600/oz.

Oris,

I spoke to my Canadian gentleman today. He had not heard about the article on the extra production at Norilsk.
His only comment was: "Well, they've certainly been coming up with a lot more nickel than anyone thought they could, so it would stand to reason they have more platinum and palladium as well."

That's all I have tonight.
It's almost 2AM in beautiful, downtown Hapeville, GA. Goodnight, all.

The Preacher

FT 2/8/98
Share merger reforms give Singapore lift
An afternoon RALLY IN REGIONAL CURRENCIES sent Singapore soaring. The Straits Times Industrials index notched up a rise of 59.25 or 3.8 per cent to 1,602.97, up almost 50 per cent since its low for the year in mid-January." They SOLD the dollar.

Regardless of what the old man says ( S ) --and he is wily and will say whatever provides glue de jour--Asean Confederation "is done" with the dollar.
See Noda Nobuo, "A Chinese Empire" for 'starter background'.
http://www.japanecho.co.up/docs/html/230110.html

Revivals in Las Vegas? What a rich texture of images that conjures up. Must be one helluva hoot.

For Oris ..
Farfel has nominated me for resident cynic award.. Im still
thinking about what to nominate him for .. So I must choose
number 1. .. 50/50 chance of being right hey
Great move sending the givatron to ziva.. Believe makes her
hand tremble though which causes frequent triple posts.

For Farfel..
Now dont get mad wiv me farfel .. I gotta start
somewhere.
All I know is cyprus amex owns 51% of Amax .. Amax
balance sheet shows assets /share of 2.51 with long
term debt on their books. if this debt goes away
then assets per share would approach Kinross NAV.
Why exactly is Cyprus paying off this debt??
You seem to be an expert on this little number.
Ill refer all questions to you

For Myrmidon.
Thanks for resource figure. Using 42 for gold/silver
ratio I think 5 mil oz gold equivalent holds up. thats
still only 5/123 mil shares = 0.04 oz per share. Not
much really.
Your scheme fascinates me. I like the part where you
say get out of both Kinross and Amax and wait. I REALLY
like that part.

For Goldkm ..
Thanks for posting Implats results .. I posted
already anyway but no interest.. It seems as if only
a few people on this site are actually interested in
mining companies that make profits or pay dividends.
Implats was astonishing. They are truly undervalued.

That should be
http://www.japanecho.co.jp/docs/html/230110.html

Dennis: No need to rush. DKT has been a veritable model of stability. Trading in a range of 3/16 to 5/16 for ..... well almost forever. 5/16 last. ..... with no hope in sight. BTW, I am not disparaging your position but my own. Why fool with a dog when there are other non woofers in the universe?

As far as I know Placer Dome has been trying for at least 2 years get a 35mil deposit returned from a deal they did'nt go ahead on after DD.
When was the last time they paid their miners? Kinross also has a mine over there in 1 of the gangster republics. Also K has a fairly substantial investment in a jr in Columbia where the rebels have an annoying habit of blowing up the main pipeline every month or so.
It may work out, but I can think of other safer Cos with pretty good upside.

I know that chlorine gas does not attack Platinum. An important property of this metal.

Does chlorine gas attack pure gold? I think so, but please verify.

Oris: ROFL!!!

Iraq owes Russia $80 billion, we don't want Russia to get those dollars. Yeltsin wants Russia to be payed with some of that $80 billion in presently "stronger dollars". We are making that difficult and Russia is peeved. Saddam is playing both sides into a confrontation.

...there is such a thing as informed cynicism and its antithesis.

With respect to Kinross, I refer you to the Globe & Mail article on the matter...posted yesterday by myself.

Cyprus Amax is paying off the Amax debt in exchange for an equity position in Kinross.

Now does it sound like such a horrible deal?

P.S. If you are recommending "Barrick," then you really need to re-direct your cynicism. The great hedged gold producer will not participate in any POG rally above 400 ( or don't you know? ) .

The Y2K problem has already started and is being hushed. Mainframe computers are making errors in future calculations. ( things like insurance costs, etc. ) I have read that 1999 will also be a very bad date. 99 is a command in many computers to shut down. Fiscal year 1999 will start this summer for many States. The public will become more aware of this in just a few months. Need I say more?

You are both great and highly respected, others think so also.

Oris: Rolling on the floor laughing.

February 11, 1998


Share of Household Wealth in Stocks Is at
50-Year High


Related Articles
Stock Market Soars
Market Place: SEC Says Brokerages Should Know Financial Status of Companies
The New York Times: Your Money

Graphics
Slicing the Pie
Investments in American Households

Forum
Join a Discussion on The Stock Market


By EDWARD WYATT

fter three years of rapidly rising stock prices, American households have
more of their fortunes invested in the stock market than at any time in the
last 50 years -- and perhaps ever.

Even that most prized possession, the home, has taken a back seat to stocks for
the first time in three decades.

An analysis by The New York Times of data compiled by the Federal Reserve
shows that stock investments made up 28 percent of American household wealth
-- a measure that includes houses, cars and other tangible assets as well as
financial assets -- at the end of September, the most recent period for which data
are available. And stocks accounted for 43 percent of financial assets, which
include bank accounts, mutual funds and securities. Those numbers have more
than doubled since 1990.

The implications of this profound growth in stock exposure are many. The size of
their paychecks aside, many Americans are feeling richer as the value of their
stock holdings rises.

But with so much in stocks, a sharp market decline could seriously erode the
financial well-being of Americans, even if their money is largely tied up in
long-term retirement plans. In years past, the biggest asset of most Americans was
the home, making the real estate market far more important than the stock market
in personal finance. Where skyrocketing home prices once provided reassurance
to the middle class, soaring stock portfolios now do. And stock prices are subject
to much wider short-term swings than home values.

The extra wealth from stock portfolios has also encouraged Americans to spend
more and save less. The Commerce Department reported last week that the rate of
saving fell last year to 3.8 percent of disposable income, the lowest level in 58
years. The saving rate has been dwindling since this bull market began in 1982
and is now less than half its postwar peak of 9.5 percent, set in 1974.

What Americans do set aside for saving, they increasingly allocate to stocks,
rather than to more conservative investments. That heightened interest accounts
for about a third of the increase in stocks' share of wealth, with the other
two-thirds coming from the rise in share prices.

And the timing has been good of late. Stocks have been gaining 30 percent
annually the last three years. "It's been jammed down their throats that they have
to put their money in equities if they want anything left for retirement," said
Melissa R. Brown, a stock market analyst at Prudential Securities.

Still, the situation could be fundamentally altered if stocks return to their historical
gains of about 8 percent a year.

Concerns about how investors with bulging equity portfolios will react to a steep
or prolonged downturn in stock prices have plagued Wall Street for several years.
To allay fears of a panic, Wall Street analysts have often said that individual stock
exposure is no greater than it was 30 years ago -- though that estimate does not
take into account many investment products that are gaining in popularity.

The extraordinary bull market has given few clues about what individuals will
really do. For example, the brief but sharp decline last October became a buying
opportunity for many.

The last time Americans had their faith in stocks truly tested was the stock market
crash of 1987. Then, stocks accounted for only 13 percent of household assets --
half as much as today -- and Americans had more money in their savings and
checking accounts than in stocks.

"Individuals certainly are taking more risk today than they were taking five years
ago," said Scott L. Lummer, chief investment officer of 401 ( k ) Forum Inc.,
which sells investment advice online. "A lot of that is for good reasons.

"But there is a growing set of the populace that looks at the last three years of
returns and says, 'The market goes up 30 percent a year.' I'm not sure those
people really understand the risks involved in stocks, and because of that they
may have a lot more money in equities than they should."

How much is enough depends on who is talking. Wall Street professionals
usually put the ideal portion of stocks at about 60 percent of one's financial assets.
Some individuals go much further.

Don Matsanoff, a 36-year-old commercial real estate agent in Columbus, Ohio,
believes he did not have enough money invested in stocks at the beginning of the
1990s. Less than half of his financial assets were in equities. By the end of last
year, Matsanoff had raised that portion to more than 80 percent. To him, that is
still not enough.

"With the returns I've seen in the market over the past few years, I'm putting a
considerable percentage of the income I'm making at work back into the market,"
he said. "I'm confident that it will continue to grow."

With mutual fund managers commanding sports-star salaries and investment
shows jamming the airwaves, the man on the street may accept the news about
rapid growth in stock ownership without flinching. But it goes against the
conventional wisdom on Wall Street.

In quarterly reports over the last two years, Abby Joseph Cohen, the stock market
strategist at Goldman, Sachs and one of the leading bulls on Wall Street, has
noted that Americans have been increasing their stock investments in recent years
as inflation has waned and as baby boomers save more for retirement. But, she
says, the percentage of their financial assets in stocks "remains well below the
levels of the late 1960s."

While Wall Street has reached such conclusions by focusing on holdings of
individual stocks and stocks through mutual funds, other categories of stock
ownership have grown steeply. At the end of 1996, employee-controlled plans
accounted for half of the $3 trillion in corporate pension plans, according to the
Federal Reserve, up from a quarter of the total when the 1980s began.

In those plans, the employee, rather than a professional pension fund manager,
decides how to invest -- in stocks, bonds or other assets. The same is true for
variable annuities, which essentially combine the tax deferral of an insurance
policy with a mutual fund, and other types of variable life insurance products,
with returns based on market performance. Sales of variable insurance products
have skyrocketed in recent years.

Even the Fed's key person on the issue says that these investment products should
be included in any study of household assets. "That's what we do when we look
at the data," said Albert M. Teplin, chief of the Federal Reserve section that
collects and publishes the numbers. "I'm not sure why Wall Street does not seem
to do that."

Teplin concludes that the portion of total household assets in stocks is much
bigger than it was in the 1960s.

The Wall Street analysts who monitor the Fed data say they have not tried to add
up all the indirect and direct stock holdings of households because the data are
notoriously soft. "Even if the data were clear," Ms. Cohen of Goldman, Sachs
said, "I think that we still would come up with the same conclusion," that current
stock holdings do not surpass those in the late 1960s.

The analysis by The Times shows that when all indirect stock holdings are
included, stocks account for 43 percent of household financial assets, up from 39
percent in 1968, and 28 percent of total household assets, up from 26 percent in
1968.

The numbers are higher than at any time since the end of World War II. But
because the Fed data extend only to 1945, comparisons with earlier periods are
difficult.

The shift has, nonetheless, been clear over the last 50 years. Americans emerged
from World War II with only 27 percent of their assets in real estate, durable
goods and other tangible assets. As they added homes, cars, refrigerators and
other goods in the postwar boom, those assets soared to 37 percent of the total in
1955.

Tangible goods soared again in the 1970s, exceeding 45 percent of household
assets by the end of the decade. Those increases came as the value of most
financial assets fell victim to runaway inflation and rising interest rates. By last
year, tangible assets had fallen back to 35 percent of total household assets.

Similarly, the portion invested in stocks rose from 15 percent at the end of World
War II to nearly 26 percent in 1968.

The late 1960s "was a very similar environment to what we see today," said Ms.
Brown, the Prudential analyst. "It was another period of very low inflation,
stable-to-declining interest rates and decent corporate profits. We had a good
market, the economy was in good shape and unemployment was low."

In short, there was no place other than stocks to put your money if you wanted to
earn any return at all, said H. Bradlee Perry, former chairman of and now a
consultant to David L. Babson & Co., the Cambridge, Mass., manager of the
Babson mutual funds. "There were no bond mutual funds at the time, and the
money market fund was just coming onto the scene," Perry said.

Few people who were around on Wall Street in 1968 need to be reminded what
lay ahead. The market lost nearly one-third of its value over the next 18 months,
and by the end of 1970, stocks had fallen to 20 percent of household assets from
26 percent two years earlier. As it turned out, stocks were just warming up for a
lengthy bear market.

In those plans, the employee, rather than a professional pension fund manager,
decides how to invest -- in stocks, bonds or other assets. The same is true for
variable annuities, which essentially combine the tax deferral of an insurance
policy with a mutual fund, and other types of variable life insurance products,
with returns based on market performance. Sales of variable insurance products
have skyrocketed in recent years.

Even the Fed's key person on the issue says that these investment products should
be included in any study of household assets. "That's what we do when we look
at the data," said Albert M. Teplin, chief of the Federal Reserve section that
collects and publishes the numbers. "I'm not sure why Wall Street does not seem
to do that."

Teplin concludes that the portion of total household assets in stocks is much
bigger than it was in the 1960s.

The Wall Street analysts who monitor the Fed data say they have not tried to add
up all the indirect and direct stock holdings of households because the data are
notoriously soft. "Even if the data were clear," Ms. Cohen of Goldman, Sachs
said, "I think that we still would come up with the same conclusion," that current
stock holdings do not surpass those in the late 1960s.

The analysis by The Times shows that when all indirect stock holdings are
included, stocks account for 43 percent of household financial assets, up from 39
percent in 1968, and 28 percent of total household assets, up from 26 percent in
1968.

The numbers are higher than at any time since the end of World War II. But
because the Fed data extend only to 1945, comparisons with earlier periods are
difficult.

The shift has, nonetheless, been clear over the last 50 years. Americans emerged
from World War II with only 27 percent of their assets in real estate, durable
goods and other tangible assets. As they added homes, cars, refrigerators and
other goods in the postwar boom, those assets soared to 37 percent of the total in
1955.

Tangible goods soared again in the 1970s, exceeding 45 percent of household
assets by the end of the decade. Those increases came as the value of most
financial assets fell victim to runaway inflation and rising interest rates. By last
year, tangible assets had fallen back to 35 percent of total household assets.

Similarly, the portion invested in stocks rose from 15 percent at the end of World
War II to nearly 26 percent in 1968.

The late 1960s "was a very similar environment to what we see today," said Ms.
Brown, the Prudential analyst. "It was another period of very low inflation,
stable-to-declining interest rates and decent corporate profits. We had a good
market, the economy was in good shape and unemployment was low."

In short, there was no place other than stocks to put your money if you wanted to
earn any return at all, said H. Bradlee Perry, former chairman of and now a
consultant to David L. Babson & Co., the Cambridge, Mass., manager of the
Babson mutual funds. "There were no bond mutual funds at the time, and the
money market fund was just coming onto the scene," Perry said.

Few people who were around on Wall Street in 1968 need to be reminded what
lay ahead. The market lost nearly one-third of its value over the next 18 months,
and by the end of 1970, stocks had fallen to 20 percent of household assets from
26 percent two years earlier. As it turned out, stocks were just warming up for a
lengthy bear market.

For myrmidon
Do you have a number for reserves for Amax.. Ive
got about 6 mill oz without Kubaka and no idea of
kubaca. Any info on Kubaca ??
Im only trying to push my analysis along a bit.
Did Cyprus HAVE to pay off amax debt to progress the
merger?. Does cyprus simply wind up with Kinross stock
instead of Amax?? Do they have controlling interest??
if deal is 0.8 kinross for amax I think not.
Love Mickey

I have tried the AMAX web site but I get the Cyprus Amax site.

http://www.cyprusamax.com

In there, must be something about AMAX

1. No number for AMAX reserves or Kubaka
2. $135 mil infusion for cash and debt from Cyprus to new Kinross
3. Will get in exchange 35 mil shares - will have controlling interest
because of the amount of new Kinross shares held
4. 1 AMAX share will be exchanged for 1 Kinross share

lets see if this site works:

http://biz.yahoo.com/snp/980210/kgc_min_m__1.html

this should explain the whole deal.

correction: 1 AMAX share will be exchanged for 0.8 Kinross shares. Sorry.

Let's look to good results, worldwide. The proof is in the pudding.

Preacher, it's time for me also to take a nap, but:

1. Thank you for fulfiling your promise to call Can.Gentleman

2. I am taking my word "lier" back and replacing it
with the word "dreamer".

3. The reason I got slightly mad at your Can. Gentleman is
very simple - there is ABSOLUTELY no way that Canadian,
or American or Japanese or even Ziva herself ( smile )
WILL BE ALLOWED to run Norilsk Plant. It can be ONLY
RUSSIAN. It is too big money for Russians to loose...
Canadian Gentleman would not survive there for more
than a month. You got to live in Russia to really
understand what's going on.

4. For this simple reason Canadian Gentleman could not be
asked to run Norilsk Plant. I do belive that some naive
foreign shareholder might talk to him, but it was just
a "lunch talk" in the best case.

5. If you call him again, ask him who asked him to run
Norilsk Plant, and then tell me, if you would.. please.

Guys,
No, I dont have another tale to tell you, just speak from my own experiences. BTW, why is it you pick up only that part of my post which supports your view? ;- ) I do not discard your view that they try to sell stock when its up and before it will with all probability drop in value. I was just trying to point to some other factors to consider.

In addition to a tax issue, I said, you have to come up with cash to exercise your option ( where do you come up with cash? Sell some stocks ) Tax? As far as I remember, tax is due between January and April 15th. Just about the right time to get some cash to pay it. And a tax on stock options is really taxing ;- ) Remember that these guys are getting stock options continually, every year. Eventually you better sell some day. BTW, some of these guys wants to have some life too. Buy some $millions second house, yacht, etc. There is no fun in knowing you are rich if you cant use the money. Publicly traded corporations are much more fun for owners than privately own companies. My brother in law in Switzerland have a significant ownership in few factories own by his family. Guess what. It does not make him feel rich at all. He cant get the money out, he just owns a part of something but cant spend any part of it.
When would you sell? When stock is down or when stock is up? At this time its way up. What looks like an extraordinary amount to a small guy, for these guys its just another drop in a bucket.

For Oris
I told you .. I asked the guy to run Norilsk. My brother - You
never believe me.

For Farfel
Could you provide a rough time for the article??
Otherwis, Ill have to page through umpteen thousand
words of ziva spasmic chants.
Now Be patient with me as I represent the VERY
center of the antithesis of informed cynicism -

You said
"Cyprus Amax is paying off the Amax debt in exchange for
an equity position in Kinross.
Now does it sound like such a horrible deal? "

Uniformed dingbat speaks .. Mining journal says that
Cyprus amax owns 51% of amax stock ... How come they
have to cough up dough from THEIR shareholders to pay
off 100% of crazy debt ( 369 mill long term and 213 mil
current liabilities ) of company they only own 51% of.
Why not just do deal and get 0.8 * .51 *114.7mil =
46 mil shares of kinross stock ( not enough to have
control ) and let debt fall on Kinross shareholders
who have cash - but not enough.
Seems like Cyprus is willing to do a lot to get
away from CONTROLLING interest in AMAX ... How
would bankruptcy law affect one shareholder who has
control of bankrupt company?? .
Regarding your comment that Barrick will not benefit
from rise in gold price. Yes farfel... I knew that.
but you speak of EARNINGS. EARNINGS wont rise .. That's
different. US players deal in perceptions not earnings.
Stock will go up. ABX Shareholders dont get dividends
anyway but abx wont go broke and shareholders have
opportunity to bask in the greatness and share vicariously
the lifestyle of elegant carpetbaggar MR MUNK.

For farfel
uniformed means uninformed in mouse speak

So they are selling Intel stock to pay capital gains taxes, so with what is left over ( what they get for the stock minus taxes ) they can exercise Intel stock options and pay the taxes on the differential of the option strike price to the current price of stock.

If the option had a strike price of $20 and the stock is now at $84 they still have to pay taxes on $84 - $20 ie. on $64 for each share. Of course this brings the adjusted tax buy price of the stock to $84 per share.

Would you do this? I certainly wouldn't.

Nick@C. Any suggestions on penny dreadfuls? Dominion options??

IMHO Dakota Mining is a viable mining company. Their results have been

poor, but you have to remember, they are operating in North America.

Why would not you do it?!
In your example, the option had a strike price of $20 and the stock is now at $84.
Lets say that my option is for 100,000 shares.
I have to pay $2 millions to exercise the option and about $3millions in taxes ( it's more complicated on a tax side and you would not pay so much ) . However, I'll be selling for $8.4 millions, meaning I just made $3.4 million after tax. Not bad for a play money

John, brother, I believe you,

but it appears now that two Canadian Gentlemen

were asked to run Norilsk - one of them was yours,

and the second one the OTHER. Yours is fine with

me - hunter and drinker and your friend, but the

OTHER asks for trouble...I'm not an animal to let

any Canadian suffer, I like Canadians...
--------------------------------------------------

Ziva The Queen of Ladies Restroom just called.
She said GIVATRON is great both indoors and outdoors,
but asked if I could run up the Givarton cycle from
45 check in-outs per hour to 90...Old chick really
thrilled.., I guess. Watch her tomorrow...

G'day Miles.
Yer on your own, mate. I would hate to recommend something and have it go bust. Pick companies with huge exploration ground ( unrecognised by the market ) . Also look very carefully at the charts. There are some very nice bowl-shaped patterns that show a bottom. Heaps of 'em look like bottoming. But then they did several months ago as well. Do your homework. It's very likely that a chimpanze could throw darts at the penny dreadfuls right now and end up a squillionaire.

Cyprus AMAX owns 58.8% of AMAX Gold.
Kinross has 125 mil shares.

So John, 0.8 x 0.588 x 125 = 58.8 mil shares according to your analysis

John's question is this:

Why didn't Cyprus take 58.8 mil shares of the Kinross without $135 mil
cash injection vs. 35 mil. shares and $135 mil cash injection.

The share differential is 58.8 - 35 = 23.8 mil shares.

Are 23.8 mil. shares worth $135 mil to Cyprus. Obviously at current Kinross prices ( 3 5/8 ) 23.8 mil shares are worth $86 mil.

Your analysis says that Cyprus is willing to pay $ 49 mil more
( $135 mil - $86 mil ) in order to get rid off AMAX. I agree that they want it off their backs. And the price they are willing to pay is $49 mil.

Cherokee- the email I have for you didn't work, please send
me your correct one thanx ( Reify@sitcom.co.il )

Bart- may I humbly offer the following suggestion ( just my two gold-backed cents ) : In long text format, truncate posts to what can be fitted on a screen ( 24 to 48 lines ) . Anything really important can be summarised in that length. Then people scanning the webchat can look at each post and skip it easily. There are far too many enormously long posts here that give people RSI injury through having to hit the Page key too many times. If people want to read the long articles, they can follow the link to "more words" at the end, of course. In many cases, people are just posting copies of something that is already on the web and could just as well be linked to with a hypertext link ( and what about copyright ) . This would save bandwidth through Bart's server not having to churn out pages and pages of posts that most people skip through. Surely not a difficult thing for your programmer Bart ( although I know he/she only comes in to work for 1 hour on Monday [sorry, sarcasm] ) . You would then have a parameter- the number of lines to display in long text format- which you could control to optimise the bandwidth tradeoff with interest in Kitco's web emporium. If you wanted to be really clever you could vary the parameter according to the poster.
An effective web chat is good for gold!

It's all about the bumps........skiing that is....go Johnny Moseley!! Did anyone see that competition?? Aaaaaawesome!! yahoo!
away...to the slopes
umpskiing

Your analysis is correct if they exercise the options and immediately turn and sell the stock.

I examined the possibility that Intel execs were selling old stock and with the proceedings they were exercising new options to obtain new stock.

Which of the two is occuring? We don't know. If it is the first, then you are absolutely correct.

...gold has formed ANOTHER Pennant...

hmmmmmmmmmmm...it is BIGGER than before, now which way to go??

The stage is being set and NY will be the launch pad...or the elevator shaft.......going, going... ( whocares ) ... ( profit either way ohmy ) .....

away...to w/w

searchingforpatterns

Farfel really -and I thought so well of you

you say
"First major error: Did you know Cyprus Amax is
paying off the Amax debt? "

Silly mouse dingbat says
"No they are not. You are sadly and completely
mistaken. After deal is completed at 0.8 to 1
kinross for Amax - Cyprus BUY 35 mill shares of
kinross for 135 mil cash ( and debt infusion ) .
Kinross cash 100,000 plus?? is absorbed in new
company which offsets more of amax debt. Then
there is a $120 additional equity capital
deal with subcription rights in canada that i
dont understand. Please read your own stuff
a bit more carefully old chum."

then you say and it really HURTS me ..

" Of course not because, as resident Kitco cynic,
you have zero interest in discovering
pertinent details regarding the merger. "

silly mouse cyborg then says
"there is no such thing as a cynical mouse, despite
all the cats in the neighborhood. Believe dumb
beastie was in fact trying to uncover pertinent
details and overcome his zero interest problem.
Also mice like way that you ask question and then
answer it. Will try that with cats."

Then farfel speaks again

" I could address a litany of other "false" issues
you have raised...but given your lack of
focus, it is not worth my time. "

Cross eyed mouse replies
" I cant focus because I am visually disadavantaged.
But I doubt if its worth your time anyway"

Then as final BLOW to poor mouse you attack his
CREATOR with a deadly "PS"

"P.S. Did you know your namesake ( DISNEY ) trades at over a 40 times P/E?
And even funnier than that, with all the rains in California, there ain't nobody visiting
DISNEY-land!! "

Mouse now in tears
"oh no not Disney land" and runs off in dismay

here is a jokie....kinda stoopid though


Tragically Bill Clinton and the Pope both passed away over the weekend.
There was a mix-up in paper work and the Pope was accidentally sent to
hell while Clinton was sent to heaven.
Pope: There must be some mistake, I have my paper work and it says I
am supposed to go to heaven.
Devil: You are correct, however, it will take 24 hours to straighten
this out.
The pope returns to the Devil 24 hours later and the Devil sends hi up
to heaven. On the way up the Pope meets Clinton and they stop to chat.
Pope: I can't wait to get to heaven.
Clinton: Why?
Pope: I have waited my entire life to meet the Virgin Mary.
Clinton: Your 24 hours late.

Please, please gentlemen, you make me feel so bad that I raised the issue of AMAX. Please don't have hard feelings with each other, it is not worth it.

Shake hands, you are extremely valuable in this forum.

How much is a squillion anyway?....I wish I had a half-a-squillion...
away...to squander squillions squeezing squishy markets
squashanyone?

For Myrmidon -
You said
"Cyprus AMAX owns 58.8% of AMAX Gold.
Kinross has 125 mil shares."

Yes - they must have increased holding - MJ
had them at 51%

Then you said
"So John, 0.8 x 0.588 x 125 = 58.8 mil shares
according to your analysis "

Yes - what can I say

Then you say
"John's question is this:
Why didn't Cyprus take 58.8 mil shares of
the Kinross without $135 mil cash injection vs.
35 mil. shares and $135 mil cash injection. "
The share differential is 58.8 - 35 = 23.8 mil
shares. "

no wait - I understand now - they get extra
shares .. extra 35 mil shares of kinross to go with
the 58.8 they have on the deal. ( i think ) .. so
they wind up at 35+58.8 =93.8 mil share of Kinross
which has 122 mil out before so 93.8/ ( 93.8+122 ) =
43 % of new company which checks with article !!!
hooray. Amax does not want 51% of anything to do
with AMAX!! There may be a reason.

then you say

" Are 23.8 mil. shares worth $135 mil to Cyprus.
Obviously at current Kinross prices ( 3
5/8 ) 23.8 mil shares are worth $86 mil. "
Your analysis says that Cyprus is willing to pay $ 49 mil more
( $135 mil - $86 mil ) in order to get rid off AMAX. I
agree that they want it off their
backs. And the price they are willing to pay is $49 mil."

I dont agree with the numbers because you go
astray I think on what Cyprus pay for the 35 mill
shares . But we agree in principle"

for myrmidon
Relax .. think of it as an exercise in mouse .. human
group dynamics.

Wonders are not about to cease. May I have the next dance, I have been waiting 20 years JW.

Just back and tried to catch up on the K/Chat. I am not a happy camper.

ZIVA, ZIVA, Ziva, give us a break. A good tradesmen never blames his/her tools. "The computer problem" yeah!

Oris - Thank you for the Feb.10/98 @ 08:00 reply. We have some experience in Russia over the past 10 years. 2-books. It is more like one book and the other is unwritten. The honour system amongst the club. The club is well linked and internationally organised. Supported by ligitimate structures in NY, London, Geneva etc etc.
Norilsk - you are right. Someone was only flattering the Canadian with an offer. No smart Western money should invest directly ( operative word here is directly ) into Russian companies. That does not preclude Western or smart investment. Investment in Russia is safe ( subject to DD ) and one must understand the risk and control the management from start to finish. The bigger the structure ( eg Norilsk ) the more difficult the understanding and knowing becomes. It would be simple if one knew exactlyy who, what, when, and where, to start and or finish the DD process in a structure like Norilsk. We do not think it is possible. The best way to deal with Norilsk is a buyer of their finished products, no one will ever manage or operate it successfully from outside Russia. Norilsk is also strategic to Russia and one of its' crown jewels. Bankers that are funding export of products are relatively safe. Loans to Norilsk are not as risky as one might contemplate.
As for Western companies being owed millions of dollars as quoted on this site? In most cases the top/largest 10-15 mining companies of the world have been caught out in their misguided greed. They often thought that they could pull the wool over the Russians. In most cases it back-fired when the Western miners stupidly paid upfront fees for some sort of exclusive on a prospective site; "trust us type deal". In many cases they tried to avoid the proper government departments and thought they could fast track the projects with a few million here and there. The companies that say they were cheated, why do we not read of it in the International Tribunals. Having said all of that I will not and am not in a position to substantiate with specific facts. Accept it if you like. I also must say it is absolutely possible and realistic to carry out and complete ligitimate business and profitable joint ventures in Russia and not only in mining. Ask, Mars, MasterFoods, Colgate Palmolive, Coke, McDonalds, Unilever, and so many more. Russia is a safer investment than China and Asia, afterall it is basically European and readily understood.

Oris - you must be a Yank, an Aussie would say "Toilet" "TouT", "Boag" "Thunder Box" "The Shitter" but never restroom.
What would a Russian say?

http://www.nwlink.com/~magicelf/stock1~1.htm
"1998 - Blow Off to a'29 Style Crash?" Interesting
chart comparison, in view of yesterday's run up
to the August 1997 Dow Jones Average peak:
"If the market does peak in the area of 9500 between now and the third
week of March, there could be a nasty correction to the 5700 level by
the end of June..."
And could be a nice bull market in gold.

Hmmm. Just looked in my crystal ball...
"2067 - Blow Off to a '98 Style Crash?"

Good site, George Ure, and we obviously agree or we would probably not be here. What, if anything will trigger the down turn? The new highs of yesterday are interesting in view of the middle east et al. Nothing goes up forever, however. And nothing like gold can go down forever. Even with the CB's trying to control it. So where do we stand is the question.

For myrmidon..
I dont know if Im right or not . what I said works if
CYM winds up with 43 % of the company.. the the journalist
says that cym winds up with 31% .. so they pay 135 mil
to drop their equity in new company to 31% .. I really
dont follow.. But Im sure farfel can explain everything.
I found reference to kubaka. 310,000 oz au plus 235,000oz
of silver for 7 years. say ( 310 + 5 ) *7= 2.2 mil oz .. This
is not so amazing but better than nothing

more riots around the capital....this time right in the heart...JAKARTA ( AFX ) - Hundreds of riot police and troops were deployed in
central Jakarta as hundreds of people marched in protest against rising prices
for essential goods, eyewitnesses said.

At least 200 police in full riot gear were seen sealing off the High Court
building, as the demonstrators moved in a column down a nearby main road
under tight security.

Three trucks packed with soldiers carrying tear gas launchers and gas
cannisters were seen driving towards the marchers.

The protestors said they would march to the manpower ministry.

A similar protest march here Monday, the biggest public demonsration in the
Indonesian capital since July 1996 riots, passed without incident.

Everything I have read about crashes tells me that no-one can predict when a crash will occur, alhough as now it can be said that on the balance of probabilities that one is coming. If you look at very long term trends for stock markets, they clearly ziz-zag up and down between the long term trend lines according to some long-term cycle, but there is a lot of noise in the detail. There are some good inflation-adjusted charts for that here: http://cpcug.org/user/invest/ and we are up at the top trend line.
If markets have reached the top, they can proceed between the extremes of either hugging the top trendline, or plummeting directly to the bottom ( as in the South Sea Bubble ) . Otherwise you get a bear market as the indices make lower highs and lower lows, or a crash followed by a bear market as in 1929-1930s. I don't think experts have agreed yet on what triggered the 1929 crash. Have we had the crash ( 27 Oct '97 ) and is a bear market coming, or was October '97 merely a taste of what is to come? We can find plenty of speculative reasons why it is all going to collapse in a heap, listed on Kitco ad infinitum, but the truth is no-one knows the future, no-one knows how effective the PPT will be, and the sensible approach is to have a balanced strategy with a proportion of investment placed in contrary investments ( e.g. gold vs. stocks ) as insurance. Arch bears who left the stock market a long way back have lost a great deal of potential gains. Whereas arch bulls, with all their money in stocks, are asking for trouble if Mr. South Sea Bubble comes calling. What gold needs is an "insurance salesperson" to get those mutual fund addicts investing in a gold insurance position.

In a recent post to Donald I stated that that the S&P 500 had made new highs and the Dow was sure to follow. Well the Dow haa followed. What now?

Final blowoff should move the Dow up to the 8500-9000 range by mid-March, with small caps outperforming..The final peak probably will be seen soon after Clinton bombs Iraq. Whatever happens there, the media will proclaim a great US triumph. Gold will not break out decisively until finaancial assets are over the top. Sell stocks and buy gold soon after hostilities commence.

Thank you for the information. My best wishes to you and your countrymen.
It is not a pretty site when citizens riot in the streets. I was witness to riots and city suburbs burning in Watts ( LA ) ,Calif. and Detroit in the 60's. It sickens me when I remember it.
Sadly the USA may experience the same thing over again but worse next time. When the USD burns and the Government stop paying welfare and social securtiy payments, oh man!! Lookout!! It's going to take a lot of gold to stop the future internal war in the USA. The most scary future look if one dares is not Saddam H. & the M/East, but the mother of all civil unrest if the welfare cheques stop. ALL SIDES ARE ARMED TO THEIR TEETH! Look out Slick Willie - they will take your jewels as well if you don't keep printing money. You people think the USA really cares about the M/East or Asia? You bet it cares so long as it is good for keeping the natives and currency from a melt down. A USA currency melt down would be the most financially catastrophic incident in modern history not to the rest of the world but mainly the USA. It happened to the Romans, Roman coins once with Ceasars image and now Lira/Fiat money. It happens, change that is. No one wills it or hopes it happens it just does as tides move in and out.

You apparently do not believe Mr. Munk when he says Barrick's hedging will really not hurt too much if the POG goes strongly up? I have never understood his explanation of why but then my only source is the reports "they" want us to see!

You and I are obviously the same kind of worriers. I am amazed the U.S. continues to hold together financially. Patch jobs of the past miraculously have worked, more or less. Can this go on indefinetly? I hope so, but I buy gold because I always hope for the best, but try to prepare for the worst.

Don't shoot the messenger, all you bear market seekers ( I among you ) but it appears that the Dow is in the process of an upside breakout from an inverse head and shoulders continuation pattern ( Reify, do you see it too? ) Technical analysis lore has it that H&S patterns run on a breakout the distance of the head-to-neckline correction. The distance between the neckline of this pattern ( roughly 8200 ) and the correction low of late October is roughly 1200 Dow points. That puts the run from breakout to around 9400-9500, maybe 96, on the Dow. Let's not quibble. Something external to the market's technical structure must emerge to thwart such an advance, and we are all aware of the various scenarios, both military and financial which may emerge, especially in March/April/May. But technically speaking, this is a very potent upside thrust in the making if price continues any higher from here.

Yes, that site of the inflation adjusted items is good. Puts things in perspective that is usually forgotten. As for why '29 occured? Things had gotten to high in the cycle, poor management of the break ( Smoot-Hawley sure didn't help in my book ) , the psychological aspect really has not been given the study I think it deserves, etc. etc. All IMHO of course. While I do not agree with John Kenneth Galbraith's liberal philosophy his book, The Great Crash, was excellent on the subject, again IMHO ;- )

I've been working on some trading systems and what they've been saying is higher and higher for the Dow/S&P. If and when they breakdown, I will shout loudly.... :- )

On a different note ( NOT directed to you Mike.. ) Quantity IS NOT necessarily quality. Multiple thousand word posts are easily passed over...

BBML

Yes Mike I see exactly what you are referring to, HOWEVER, maybe because
I"m from the old school, I find several faults with calling this pattern
a true and measurable head & shoulders.
a ) the angle of the H&S should have an upward slant in a bull market, and
the opposite in a down market. It should be a topping or bottoming action, not a pattern within a trend.
b ) the neckline is where the measurements are taken from and in the case
you describe, one could measure from a potential neckline, but--
The patterns available to technicians vary, and I see the younger
generations like tofind and see head and shoulders in every possible pattern, and that, in my time was not the case.
So enjoy the patterns and call them what you will and I'll continue
in some of my old fashioned ways. Cest la vie!
BTW since this is a gold and PM discussion group, shouldn't the golds
silvers and XAU have a correction to test the bottom about now?
and consolidation

In the tradition of the Roosa Bonds of the 60s, the US Treasury was compelled, by 'circumstances' to issue--to foreign governments only--gold US Treasury Bonds.

There may be gold in them thar hills, but the hills are NOT in the USA.

And THAT is why governments ( who DO have functioning intelligence services after all ) bought and held US Bonds in sufficiently large quantitites to keep the game going for another couple of innings.
IMHO

Congressional approval? Behind the SteelCurtain of 'national security', the Wizard Works His Wonders....

Agreed, I love the markets, love to trade, buy & sell, create, produce, convince and sell, me thinks it is called Business. But with profitable, liquid companies. If the USA was a company and listed on the DOW we would be selling the stock at a WARP SPEED! The image of might is right produced by the USA spin doctors keep beating life into the chest of its'currency, and we know nothing lasts forever not even life support systems. Gold, Platinum & Silver are wonderful compared to US bonds and USD. It is nice to hold an behold.
When the international investor perception changes, when the investors start to examine the accounts of the USA as was done in Asia recently, the change will start. The major shift is already happening as we speak and W/Buffet and G.Soros are examples. I think ANOTHER was correct in his/her hints "you too can walk in the footsteps/path of the giants" Or words to that effect.

Gold down only $1.30 this morning despite soaring dollar and soaring bonds. The reaction to news has greatly improved. This tells me that the stage is beng set for a strong upward move when financial assets peak. But prices probably will drift somewhat lower in the interim if the stock market blowoff continues as now seems likely.

Bottom line -- modest downside and huge upside. But some downside before the big upside.

If there were a graph of the quality + reliability of the kitco discussion group it would resemble that of Gold+ the Canadian Dollar ( straight downhill...eh ) ----April GOLD down 1.30 ( and now I learn Nevada is worse than Russia~~~~~~~~~~ )

evaluate the "REASONABLENESS" of this...
SCMP
Daragh Maher, a regional economist at ING Barings, said: "The rumour does seem to have some credibility. But 5,500 seems an aggressive rate to
be targeting. I would have thought 8,000 would have been more realistic."

Speculators with long dollar positions yesterday raced to unwind their positions, helping the rupiah to rally from 9,700 to below 7,000 at one point.

President Suharto on Monday strongly hinted of a new exchange rate regime, pledging his government would "kill" speculators.
http://www.scmp.com/news/template/templates.idc?artid=19980211012232016?=biz&template=Default.htx&maxfieldsize=3465

Pop over to the site, and look at the list of archived stories...
any peg would be a nano-second experience...but it is GREAT
propaganda!

Its interesting that the president's sexual encounters can cause such euphoria in the USA and such a positive approval rating among the public ( about 80% approval rating apparently ) . This euphoria has now spilled over into the USA markets. How curious indeed. We might call this latest upward thrust the Bubba Spike. I am indeed amazed and at the same time most assuredly repulsed by it all. As John Imus said on his program, "The president is just one more bimbo away from a 90% approval rating." A sad commentary indeed.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980210/imf_congre_2.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980211/korea_labo_2.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980211/shell_says_1.html

April Gold down 1.40 @ 300.90 and the Canadian dollar down .23 ( guess I ain't the only one with zero confidence in Canada...eh )

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980211/markets_pr_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980209/u_s_banks__1.html

World-acclaimed analysts in their particular areas of expertise:

The Dines Letter - James Dines

General Market View For February 1998 - Wayne Crimi

UNDERSTANDING BUFFETTS SILVER PLAY - Milhouse

WHEN CENTRAL BANKS SELL GOLD, THEIR CURRENCIES DEVALUE - vronsky

Some Thoughts on Inflation - Dr. Paul Hein

Peter Dag Portfolio Strategy - Dr. George Dagnino

See golden-eagle Hot-News Box at URL ( just delete the en in golden ) :
http://www.golden-eagle.com

Golden Eagle Fisheries takin' Golden Eagle to court-u can relate to that.

huh?

The constitution you were referring to is a farce~~~~~~

Thank you, Junior.

In regard to Queen of Ladies Restroom:

I would say - "Koroleva Tyaleta" or
even call her - "Zasranka" or if I were
a little kid, she would be called - "Kakashka".

Now, listen to this, this is a highest level
of Russian language, I bet you never heard before:

ZIVA - OMANDAVEVSHAYA PIZDOPROYSHINA

Just try to imagine!

Take care

GREAT! Now I can get reliable gold futures prices ALL the time ( thankx to YOU )

http://www.mgl.ca/~yauger/Xdaily.html

EXCELLENT READ @ Wed Feb 11 1998 04:46

http://www.kitcomm.com/pub/discussion/Gol80.gif
Golds meteoric rise to $850 in 1980.
It only took two months to double in price.

is only one drug away from happiness. My brain has an approval rating of zip regarding the current state of affairs...no lo comprendo...as Spiro would say. America approves of anything....so long as it doesn't compromise the stock market....kill, bomb, rape, suck, lie, steal, lick a peter....

Canadian Gold taken away for smokin pot - hope at least it was Acapulco Gold......
Ah well, the medal is not real Gold anyway - cheap tin with some Gold plating - who needs it, give me some Acapulco.........

Viva Acapulco!

Yea!....but everyone knows REBAGLIATI whipped all of their butts. Think how fast he would have flown if he cared. He won.

Dow slightly before the opening...wonder what...

Congratulations for those who are
proud owners. In the meanwhile
goldbugs are becoming an endangered
species.

LAND-MINE LEGISLATION

by Claire Wolfe

Let me run by you a brief list of items that are "the law" in America today. As you read, consider what all these have in common.

1. A national database of employed people.

2. 100 pages of new "health care crimes," for which the penalty is ( among other things ) seizure of assets from both doctors and patients.

3. Confiscation of assets from any American who establishes foreign citizenship.

4. The largest gun confiscation act in U.S. history - which is also an unconstitutional ex postfacto law and the first law ever to remove people's constitutional rights for committing a misdemeanor.

5. A law banning guns in ill-defined school zones; random roadblocks may be used for enforcement; gun-bearing residents could become federal criminals just by stepping outside their doors or getting into vehicles.

6. Increased funding for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, an agency infamous for its brutality, dishonesty and ineptitude.

7. A law enabling the executive branch to declare various groups "Terrorists" - without stating any reason and without the possibility of appeal. Once a group has been so declared, its mailing and membership lists must be turned over to the government.

8. A law authorizing secret trials with secret evidence for certain classes of people.

9. A law requiring that all states begin issuing drivers licenses carrying Social Security numbers and "security features" ( such as magnetically coded fingerprints and personal records ) by October 1, 2000. By October 1, 2006, "Neither the Social Security Administration or the Passport Office or any other Federal agency or any State or local government agency may accept for any evidentiary purpose a State driver's license or identification document in a form other than [one issued with a verified Social Security number and 'security features']."

10. And my personal favorite - a national database, now being constructed, that will contain every exchange and observation that takes place in your doctor's office. This includes records of your prescriptions, your hemorrhoids and your mental illness. It also includes - by law - any statements you make ( "Doc, I'm worried my kid may be on drugs...... Doc, I've been so stressed out lately I feel about ready to go postal." ) and any observations your doctor makes about your mental or physical condition, whether accurate or not, whether made with your knowledge or not. For the time being, there will be zero ( count 'em, zero ) privacy safeguards on this data. But don't worry, your government will protect you with some undefined "privacy standards" in a few years.

All of the above items are the law of the land. Federal law. What else do they have in common?

Well, when I ask this question to audiences, I usually get the answer, "They're all unconstitutional." True.

My favorite answer came from an eloquent college student who blurted, "They all SUUUCK!" Also true.

But the saddest and most telling answer is: They were all the product of the 104th Congress. Every one of the horrors above was imposed upon you by the Congress of the Republican-Revolution -- the Congress that pledged to "get government off your back."

I have been watching Silver Gold and Platinum and Palladium ,
ten hours a day for several years now. The plan that mostly works
well is to buy it outright or on a 1-5 leverage and hold on. The
reasound they call Silver a Precious Metal is compared to Coal
there is not much of it around. There are some uses for Silver
that really only work well when silver is around.

During the past 17 years Silver mining has declined that is the
Supply side and it uses have inclined this is demand. Remember
the idea home video was going to kill the Cinema well every
weekend we go to the movies it seems even though we have four
vcr in the house. All that 16mm Film is still made from Silver.

I am hearing from the timid investor but what if Warren sells
at 8.50 then what. My only counter What if he sells Gillette,
Mc Donalds, and American Express. If it makes a profit why sell it.

If you purchased silver at 4.60 even on a 1-5 bank leverage
paid all the expense and the margin calls to date you would
still be ahead by 40 %. Silver will go double digit for the
same reason palladium rose from 85.00 two years ago to 237.00
today. There is not enough around for the perceived need. World
incidents in the future dictate how much we may need and because
they are precious we never know how much!

Bloomberg just reported on a recent study.
The average households #1 investment
is stocks. Surpassing homeownership.
???????

Have a heavy hit....take your eyes off the road....you're thinking too hard....second, third, fourth-guessing....that's not good usually.

By judging and reading over your posts
you should be acting on your own advise.
Go look in the mirror. Just look at whats
flying off your keyboard. Studio.R should
look at changing your handle to Goble De Goop.

I need a brain laxative.

Have a great new futures trading company, headed by top echelon leaders
( to whom WEF has given the Gold Star ) and KNOW how the Asian currency crisis will be resolved ( insider info in a CAPITAL way ) and have the time-window:

"NO CURRENCY IS LARGE ENOUGH FOR THIS RACE, SO A NEW ONE WILL ARRIVE FROM THE PAST"
( Another, Sunday, Feb 8, 1998 )

The intro time-table WAS for 2000-- year of the Dragon, a potent symbol coupled with the element symbol of METAL....

But windows get broken because of barbarian hi-jinx. Rescheduling--wait until Hong Kong gets un-pegged, let the child learn the lesson? That is perhaps the best way....

And then, when all seems darkest to our neighbors to whom we have PROMISED stability, we will announce a currency defined in gold, just like the august BIS Gold Franc...and all will be forgiven, and business will beat down the doors to invest in such a golden state....

Tolerant1@one.SCARY.List Loooordy! Makes one HOPE Y2K is as good ( bad )
as promised!

Thanx for your post - it's interesting.

We've had this discussion several times before. Both parties are playing us. They have a classic setup by which the population is placed to watch a good cop / bad cop melodrama AND depending on where you fall politically YOU LOSE EITHER WAY. What a scam.

The answer is not political HOWEVER we must vote another way to throw out POLITICIANS. This is how Perot helped BC get into the White House -- Perot despises George Bush ( many reasons ) . The Americans were on the right road ( not with Perot though ) but it is the way.

Personally, I like Steve Forbes OR Alan Keyes. Unfortuanately the major media will not give them the air-time necessary to beat the big-money-machines in the 2 major political party.

my daily walk~~~~~~~Go Gold + Ross Rebafliati!!! Oh yeah,go Canadian Tire money!

Oh yeah!!! You left out the dual currency thing from 1996 by which the $US will have national and international currency in an effort to combat counterfeiting abroad. Bullsh_t.

Everyone seems alittle on the edge. Dow
going to all time highs and gold just sits there.
But gold will rise, just as the great pumpkin did.
You better believe it. It's not over.

Looked in the mirror...no one there. Gone to the office to pump oil to give it away...$14.25/bbl...Ozarka water=$67/bbl. Drink more oil. H.H. get a job.

I had a real problem getting into Kitco last night about 19.00. Tried to get in several times and was totally unable. On one occassion, I was able to get in, but totally unable to make any posts or to read the detailed posts of others.

SDRer: Saw your Suhuarto SCMP post which I think supercedes my earlier AFR post -- I think the news media don't have the dollar 'peg' vs currency board business down quite right. My quess is that Suhuarto ( sp? ) is pegging their currency to so many units to the dollar, while they unravel the currency board business. Given the unstable situation, I think Suhuarto decided he could not wait for sombody to set up the currency board system -- which was sorely needed. I think your post also alluded to the fact that the feedback control system to stabilize their currency has not yet been set up. Once the investors realize that nothing has really changed in Indonesia, this current investment surge will dry up rather suddenly.

It is my impression ( IMHO ) that Indonesia is not ready to go to a non-US currency exchange system to stabilize their currency yet -- things are moving too quickly, and the currency controls are not set up yet. Looks like full scale riots in Indonesia, and now I learn about worker revolts in S Korea.

Can't make cheap goods if no one is working. So I think D.A. called it right -- inflation, not deflation in N America. The Calif floods certainly will not cause commodity prices to go down, either. The apparent imminent US market rally supports this -- and a rally in precious metals is just around the corner.

But I think China's dog and pony show over the last eight months
has had a ) a point and 2 ) brought results...think REGIONAL
non-dollar currency...that is the spoonful of sugar! {:- )
IMVHO!

Someone posted earlier a question about effect of cl gas on gold. I say someone because I now can't go back. Chlorine in any form is a solvent for gold.

I have an issues traded, adjusted McClellan Oscillator/Summation Index that I have referred to here in the past. This allows me to compare today's market to those of the 1970's and 1980's.

In July the Summation Index exceeded +3000, indicationg that we would see three corrective phases in the market before a final thrust upwards. All of this would occur in a market with an upward bias. The strength of that final thrust would tell us whether we will enter a bear market or a new bull phase.

We have finished the second corrective phase and should be ready for the next correction. These have been in the 5% to 8% area in the past and usually finish about 185 to 200 trading days from the +3000 peak last July. This means that we can look for April 10 to May 1 for the third low. Since a correction take 5 to 10 weeks, we must be near a top around here somewhere.

The final phase should take us into early summer. These final moves can be explosive ( Over 10% ) , or weak ( 5% to 10% ) . Should the burst be strong enough to get the Summation Index over +3000 ( not likely ) , we start the whole cycle again into 1999. If not, a bear of some sort is very likely.

Avalon ( and Bart ) :

You were not the only one with problems getting into Kitco last night. But that moron Ziza didn't have any problem at all. 7000-words pasted us three times right in the face. ( Sure glad I didn't step in it! ) Oh yeah; Heavy ( Handed ) Hitter posted about 135 times, too. It's starting to seem like the program is weighted towards stupidity. The more foolish the post, the easier it is to get in.

( TML 2-11-98 9:30am )

Due to various comments regarding the death of precious metals, the Olympic Committee announced today that the prizes for first, second, and third place in Olympic events would be changed to the dollar, yen, and deutsch mark respectively. The bills will be folded in the origami tradition and awarded in the usual way around the neck with a ribbon.

This is in line with the victory of fiat currency over the metals as a perception of value. Heavy Hitter, a participant on the Kitco gold forum commented that "It's about time, now I can recoup some of my gold trading losses by going back to paper."

LGB, another participant on the forum stated that "I called for this to happen a long time ago." Previous sentiments expressed by LGB reflected the mood of the moment when he was pro-metals for a short time.

All: Read in the paper/heard on radio -

1 ) Secret service agent -- name??-- testified in front of grand jury that M Lewinsky was with BC in the White House for 50 minutes. So -- Starr does have access to the Secret Service agents. And -- the ML topic may not be the only thing discussed. How about FBIgate, Chinagate, Travelgate, Commercegate, V. Fostergate, Campaigngate, etc.?

2 ) Apparently K Starr has copies of M Lewinsky's phone message recordings with BC's voice on it. Linda Tripp had apparently copied them.

3 ) Conversation of unknown woman with Rush Limbaugh: 'It is ok for Pres Clinton to lie as long as he does good things for us, and all is well'.

If item 3 is really how the American people feel about our Commander in Chief -- heaven help us! I guess Abraham Lincoln is no longer acceptable as a role model for the President.

Anyway -- it should be no surprise that the US Equity markets are still going up , is it? But if everyone now has more of their wealth in the markets rather than in their houses, where is the extra money going to come from? Sounds like storm clouds forming over Wall Street, but the markets don't know it yet. Can't believe this could go on much longer.

No joke ,I saw a special on the guy ( Japanese ) who made all of the medals for the games,laquered wood,all,and they were praising his craftsmanship and the many hours it took to make each one. ( no joke )

did you see the Pro Farmers's take on the crop report today? a little bearish,

Wood? You would think they would at least use base metal and plate the things.

Ted: what do you mean

TML,All: Why not take this absurdity one step further, and expunge the word 'gold' from our language. No more 'gold' medals, etc. I wonder what the National Bureau of Standards will do now that 'gold' standard has ben removed from acceptable use? Lead standard, copper standard, dollar standard? I am at a complete loss what should be the 'standard' substitute for gold.

And what do we do with the transgressors? Execute them? Didn't we hear that something bad happens to SEAsian traders that privately export gold to buy US dollars? Wasn't that Indonesia? Or do they just threaten to execute currency traders?

Jin -- take care!

Spot gold just shot up a dollar or so. I like where that curve is pointed....

Secret Service agent's name was "Lewis"; heard it on Bloomberg radio.

Japanese bankers plann $15 Billion fund for Indonesian Firms to keep them from defaulting on loan payments. Page A19.

Sorry I cannot post the whole thing. That's right, they cannot pay back what they already owe; so let's lend them more.

McLellan Oscillator new interesting. Keep us posted! I have read of this before, but don't have much on it. Do you have any links to sites which offer background, history, etc.?

would you believe that munni munni in Australia recovered 1% on a native mineral complex Sp. grav over 14--assays still to hand.

thought to be rhodium -platinum complex- if this is confirmed the it is worth more than its 1-2% Ag find reported offically today.

enquires to
jsmith@wire.net.au

Intentional or not, when acquisitions or mergers are announced,
those who write the articles must be granted the greatest award
of moronship.

Us three have spent a considerable amount of time to find out
what exactly is hapenning, without definite success. Company
announcements contain a high "FOG INDEX" which is the deliberate
effort to either hide something from the stockholders, or to
make them looking smart by using complicated verbage that only
some "geared to the jargon" analysts can understand.

The bottom line is that the AMAX / KINROSS news drove down AMAX
stock by more than $0.5 per share and I am not happy about it.

But more important to me is your mutual feelings and love to eachother.

Olympic Wooden Nickels

Were all getting too paranoid! The Olympic Committee is deeply in debt, and having no sense of tradition ( or shame ) they are going to stiff those to whom they are supposed to PAY honor.

Think about the all the lovely money theyll save. Dollar is strong, but only 1st place gets that, 2nd gets cheaper and 3rd doesnt even get bus fare!

It is NOT a comment about golds intrinsic worth, but rather a comment about the debt societys lack of moral worth.

Thank you for checking into this matter. I thought that chlorine attacked gold but I was not sure. However, chlorine is not solvent to Platinum.

Sheesh, just had the whole system crash, had to format the hard drive and reload everything!!! Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I lean more to the other fella than Forbes. AK would make for a very interesting fellow in the White House.

Quote.com is showing the april contract starting a strong upside move.

302.8 at 10:53

Futures Contracts
Updated as of: Feb 11, 1998 @ 11:22 am ET

Sym. Company Name Last Change %Chg High Low Vol.

GC J8 Apr. Gold 3027 +4 +0.1 3032 2998 148
SI H8 March Silver 7070 -30 -0.4 7140 6950 13.2K
HG H8 March High Grade Copper 7665 -30 -0.4 7775 7575 6.59K
PL J8 April Platinum 3940 +31 +0.8 3950 3885 1.17K
PA H8 March Palladium 23600 +160 +0.7 23700 23150 133

JTF,SDRER-A,

Indonesia looks been forced into the corner now!Actually,i don't feel confidence about the policy,in term of pressure from the opposition parties,politic problems,family's monopoly business which against the imf package.And the advises been said mostly from the close relationship between the president,and not from the IMF BOARD.That's all briefly what i know.
By the way,lastest news read:JAKARTA, Indonesia ( AP ) - In his most vehement comments yet,
President Suharto accused unnamed groups today of trying to destroy
the Indonesian economy by engineering a dramatic slide in its currency.

Suharto's accusations came after the government announced it was
preparing to establish a currency board to peg the battered rupiah's value
to the U.S. dollar.

They also coincided with two noisy demonstrations in the capital Jakarta
against rising prices and corruption. At one protest, riot police jostled
with a crowd and arrested 140 demonstrators.

Indonesia is facing its worst economic crisis in 30 years. Last month the
currency dropped to about 17,000 rupiah to the dollar - a fall of more
than 80 percent from its value before the crisis hit in July.

In an off-the-cuff speech at a factory opening in West Java, Suharto said
the rupiah's devaluation had been ``unnatural.'' He accused speculators of
trying to push the rupiah down to 20,000 rupiah to the dollar.

``It would mean they deliberately engineered the destruction of our
economic fundamentals,'' Suharto said.

At that level, he said companies will be destroyed and mass
unemployment and unrest could occur.

The president called for Indonesians to support government efforts to
overcome the crisis, which he described as a ``test by God.''

The Indonesian currency has recovered somewhat, trading at about
7,300 rupiah today after Suharto enacted economic reforms required for
a $40 billion International Monetary Fund bailout.

Nevertheless, inflation and unemployment has soared and civil unrest has
broken out in more than a dozen towns and villages outside of the capital
over the past few weeks.

Addressing a plenary session of Parliament, Finance Minister Mar'ie
Muhammad said Suharto recently hinted at the idea of a currency board,
which would peg the rupiah to the dollar at a fixed rate.

Suharto told Muslim clerics Monday that the government will soon
announce steps to fight speculators.

Speculation that Indonesia might adopt a fixed exchange rate for its
currency lifted the rupiah almost 30 percent Tuesday. Dealers, however,
predicted the rupiah's rise would slow because of fears a currency board
might fail.

Suharto, 76, has governed Indonesia for 32 years. He is almost certain to
win a seventh five-year term when a 1,000-member assembly votes for a
new president in March.

Do not worry. I merely point out what the terrorcrats think they are up to without any watching them like Eagles. Their day is near. Very near. The day of reckoning is soon to arrive and the populace will crush them in a manner that will make the fist of Stalin be as a flea fart.

People are wising up at a wonderful rate. There is an ocean of lemmings, beware the undertow of those who care not for power and greed, but family, friends and liberty. The lemmings and technocrats have had their warning.

The welfare state is dead, the body has not hit the floor yet. The greedy terrorcrats remind me of the weasels in the Wind and the Willows.

Hi folks, take a look at the nice Kitco daily chart and exchage
todays start at 350 with 850. Then exchange todays low of
298.30 with 280 ( double bottom ) . you will easily see that gold has made it back to 850. So lets wait for the real double bottom and then off we go. For those who are nervous: take 4 drops of Bach Flower
Rescue Remedy and reenjoy Life !!!!

I will probably get kicked off this network for what I am about to say. I just finished making two custom rings, one in gold and one in platinum. Platinum is so much better a metal to work in. It speaks wealth with its old world silvery/gray luster. I am seeing a HUGE volume in platinum custom work. Young people are using platinum in their engagement rings about 80% of the time.

Fashion on the other hand is too expensive in platinum for the masses so gold and white gold will still be the metal of choice for large and bold fashion oriented jewelry.

There are alot of profound problems facing the jewelry industry in the future which will negatively impact peoples desire for jewelry and therefore precious metals. I will venture a prediction that the jewelry industry will decline by 30% over the next 20 years.

Jewelry desires are based first on the desire to adorn ourselves. Next and almost as important is the desire for class/status segregation. Adornment will always exist. The status conferred through jewelry ownership is being assaulted so successfully that I forsee the 30% decrease stated above.

Synthetic gemstone and treatment technology are so sophisticated, and detection technology so expensive that the marketplace has become a legal hazard. A Washington D.C. jeweler a few month ago just lost a questionable case over a treated emerald. The stone sold for $35,000 and the customer won triple damages for non-disclosure plus attorneys fees. There was a question of whether the stone was filled with a common yet undetectable synthetic resin to enhance it's appearence.

Synthetic diamonds, while around since the 1950's, are now being produced white, clean, and virtually undetectable outside a well equipped laboratory. Once low cost synthetic and treated gemstones flood the marketplace, the status reason for jewelry ownership will be lost. I cannot tell you how many wealthy patrons are happy to walk around with Cubic Zirconias which everyone assumes is genuine. It is only that they do not wear well over time and become abraided that keeps them all from doing this.

Why would anyone but the purist pay 10 times more for genuine when the synthetic has the same crystal, chemical, and optical characteristics as genuine and the average jewelry professional cannot separate the two? Not only diamonds, but emeralds, sapphires, rubies, amethyst, garnet, and who knows what else are currently being successfully synthesized.

Initially, there will be a rush to get in on the cheap synthetic diamonds. But then when their friends flash a three carat F VS1 diamond that would have cost $20,000, they will not think to themselves, gee, they must be doing well, but that it is a $1,200 synthetic. Then the jig will be up.

So much of this industry has been built on this status that I worry about the future ability of a store like mine to sell much more than fashion oriented jewelry made in the cheapest labor market available. Precious metals will suffer.

Throw you off Kitco for an opinion, I say not, speak you mind. If I had one I would. Speak up lad.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/138134.asp

I would consider this a breakout......oh my. Let us raise our glasses and peel off our profits with great calculation.
http://www.cbot.com/l3fdo.htm

Let it roll, let it roll...... ( who did that one?, Dave Mason?? ) ........for another day or two....then peel....uh huh.

Now......when will gold make the breakout....and Euro...w/w...... ( hmmm ) ...
away...to work
?much

go gold... ( go! ) ...

Ted, steady as she goes...
away
uyerANDseller



and what is with all the Squillion posts??? Knock it off!!!

Jin: Thanks for the post. SDRer, who knows far more about currencies than I, agrees that Suharto has probably not set up anything to regulate the supply of Rupiahs. Until a firm control is exerted over the Rupiah money supply, linked to the US dollar -- or even better -- a currency board -- things do not look good. Perhaps SDRer can tell you what to look for -- what sort of experts could do this, and how it might be set up. My guess is that the area of greatest difficulty will not be in setting up all of the rules -- could be done on a personal computer -- the problem will be whether Suharto or designee actually has direct control over the money supply.
Hope you are low profile, and your family are safe! Aren't there about 6 million Chinese in Indonesia? Will be hard to evacuate everyone at risk, I think.
We at Kitco all appreciate your posts. You are in the middle of the action, as they say, and we may be next!

.

Re your synthetic jewels post: Aren't people putting those jewels on real metal? My take on this market is that synthetic jewels will be on more hands, thus more sales overall, even though the markets for the real thing will be volitile. It's only a question of time.

Once, when typewriters were the technology, a typed letter with your name on it was a sign of importance. Today, fountain pens are in a boom, as execs handwrite their letters of importance, to distinguish them from computer-cloned ones.

The jewelry industry, and those who want the real thing, will find a way to cope over time. We might well see a partially-cut and polished gem hanging from the necks of those who want to show the genuine status of their gem. In fact, it fits in nicely with other "natural" product trends.

Quite some time ago I set up a state-of-the-art computer network at home complete with UNIX server, pentium PC, MacIntosh network, high-resolution big monitor with built-in-speakers and external ones, scanner, ISDN conectivity, ISDN telephone system, laser printer, fax, etc. Haven't had a problem in 1.5 years.

Read your @11:17 and two minutes later .... system crashes ... just got back on line .... didn't have to load anything except cache on reboot ( twice ) .... QUICK ...... discuss the demise of fiat currency .... and its relationship ( lack of ) to gold .........

What legislation is your 9:19 about? It's news to me.

George Harrison.

Mushrooms-R-Us.

The laws indicated in your post, serve a purpose in the land of the "FREE". All such laws are needed to protect the "We The People".

The citizen must be protected. Communism/Capitalism/Religion, demand the control of "FREE" citizen's, against other "FREE" citizen's.

Because "FREE" citizen's, will do "FREE" activities, and will not "PRODUCE".

Surplus "PRODUCTION" is required to have a Market economy. "FREE" people will only "PRODUCE" enough to satisfy their specific needs. As a result, "FREE" citizen's are difficult to control, therefore, must be fenced in, as you would fence your property, and animals.

Laws ( fence/jails/fines ) are required to "PRODUCE" surplus economic results. Many laws were required to allow the "FREE" commerce in slaves to "PRODUCE" surplus economic results, such laws had the necessary results of dicipline/obedience/orderly conduct.

The Tecnocrats in government/corporations are paid by the citizen/consumer to create ever increasing creative laws, to maximize the benefits of the "FREE ENTERPRISE" ( consumerism/consumption ) system.

Sooooooooooooooooo, Be Quiet...Consume...And Die. The "LAW" will benefit you and your's, because to be "FREE" would "PRODUCE" economic hardships.

"Fear", is the best weapon, to serve the political agenda of Communism/Capitalism/Religion. "We The People" is a dream not yet achieved. Constitution/Bill of Rights, are but scraps of paper. No life/Spirit exists in these documents.

Labour=Value=Gold, Fundamental to the basic quality of a "FREE" people/Nation. Debt is national economic slavery, Laws enacted by the "Money Trusts" to control via "DEBT" and "FEAR" the basic/fundamental/essential, standards of "We The People". Gold must be controlled. Gold could/would represent "FREEDOM" for "We The People"

For the record,,,, my 09:44 reference is: "Senate Bill S.307", 104th Congress 1995

Just received more paperwork regarding my "The Energy Group" ( TEG ) shares. Apparently "PacifiCorp" has a 'Renewed Recommended Chas Offer' for TEG. This paperwork is long and tedious to accept the offer.

Anyone recommend if I should go with "PacifiCorp" ? I'll sell TEG rather than fill out the paperwork involved - I don't need the bullsh_t.

TIA

My problem arises from the winint.dll and rundl.dll somehow getting corrupted and there is no fix I have found. But, If I only Had a Brain, I am sure things might be easier.

In addition, I find that getting on the net means that every 30 days or so I just wipe out the disk anyway as all this junk seems to clog my system.

A visit to OZ can resolve your dilema: "... If I only Had a Brain..."

pacificorp are good.

From one woman's viewpoint...
Antique platinum
Yellow with LG D's or H's for the conservative or tight waded husband.

Tradition--my friend!!!

Triple keystone might be the real problem.
IMHO
Take care...out of here...Barb

http://www.alteredstates.net/stealthlaws.html

Yes, I agree that initially volume will increase as synthetics will bring the rock to the masses. My point is more a long term view. Synthetics are only valuable as long as the genuine thing retains it's luster. Wealthy people want to show their status. Poor and middle class people want to appear as the wealthy.

If the wealthy get turned off of jewelry because they can spend $20,000 on a three carat genuine diamond or a $1,200 synthetic which only the Gemological Institute of America can afford the equipment to distinguish between, then jewelry will go out of vogue for not only the wealthy but the wannabe's too.

I feel that there is already a backlash against more, more, more. People wear fewer pieces of jewelry. I am in the most upscale suburb of Chicago and what I see are ( 1 ) engagement ring ( 1 ) anniversary band ( 1 ) watch ( 1 ) bracelet ( 1 ) pair everyday earrings ( 1 ) pendant. It is hard to get someone to buy a second of any of these items. They find a simple basic and wear it everyday.

There is also alot of hand me downs which I restyle with no net gold sale because I take the old gold as a trade in. In fact, I have been a goldsmith for eight years now and I have never once bought gold for my castings. I go through about 30 ounces of .9995 per year and I get it all by recycling peoples old gold which I take in trade.

I may have an insulated view due to my upscale location but when I was a contract goldsmith for large retail jewelry chain stores, before I opened my own, jewelry was mainly purchased on credit. 60% of a stores sales were internal credit. Many finance companies are dropping jewelers because the writeoffs are getting very large. Paople pay their jewelry bill last in a pinch. I do not see people buying as much jewelry on credit with the malaise of status as I have described in the long run.

Told my wife I wanted to the the traditional Platinum with large GIA D costing big$$ for our anniversary.

She says "NO". I'm confused by women. She rather travel to some island somewhere.

Ah yes grasshopper. I agree. I say butcher the cattle and shear the sheep. I mean the terrorcrats that is. The next one that sticks its foul little fingers in my pockets will need mittens.

Simply don't know.

I have a new chant

Get VOLCKER!!! GET VOLCKER!!!

Thanks for the bookmark. I knew the congress was running fast and loose with the constitution since before I was born, but secret trials even raises the eyebrow of this most jaded observer.

Prometheus,
Go to http://inference.com/infind and search under "McClellan Oscillator" and "McClellan Summation Index" to get lots of stuff. Spell McClellan correctly or you will miss it.

Triple key is a relic of the 1980's. Todays retail environment is overstored. I know of not one independent who works on more than a 100% markup. 100% is in line with every other product such as flooring, clothing, food, etc. No retail store can cover overhead and cost of goods and take home a paycheck for less of a markup. In my case, I cut out the manufacturing middleman so I can be competitive and make a bit more with the sweat of my brow.

I also lose very few custom jobs because I stock my own work which inspires lots of confidence. There is still a strong price resistance due to competition.

The trip is only a memory after it is over....
The stone will last a lifetime ot two...& can be
sold for GOLD if the NEED ever arises!

Take care...I'm just too practical I guess and my human
database is overloaded with trips and the like...keep
the wife and buy GOLD, SILVER and INVESTMENTS....
Out till the late eve.
Barb

Women in love prefer to spend time with their husbands in an island.
You have a good wife.

Ross Rebagliati for Prime Minister~~~~~~~~~~~

MoreGold & Ted--Why would Rebagliati smoke acapulca gold when B.C. grass is recognized as the best & most potent in the world. It's in demand everywhere, especially California & is estimated to account for over 1 billion in exports annually.
It's a good thing that Reb smoked to slow himself down a little, otherwise he would have really kicked ass.

I politely wish to differ to your:

"Why would anyone but the purist pay 10 times more for

genuine when the synthetic has the same crystal,

chemical, and optical characteristics as genuine and the

average jewelry professional cannot separate the two?

Not only diamonds, but emeralds, sapphires, rubies,

amethyst, garnet, and who knows what else are currently

being successfully synthesized."

I agree, every year we see new synthetics ( some good,

some bad ) but to say the average jeweler cannot seperate them

is a bit harsh. I've been a professional for twenty years

and I can spot a Verneuil ruby or a Chatham synthetic

from across the room, likewise with CZs. Hydrothermal

emeralds are tough to spot without high power magnification.

The jewelry store that lost the suit was stupid. I flat out

tell people that they can expect their emeralds to be oiled

and the sap

Mymirdon..
Cmon relax ... I love farfel ... ah wan to keese heem ..
wharr eez hee... eef hee was ah wooman ah would mar-EE
heem .. What can ah say...
I jus don luv zee kinross and zee amax and neizair doz
zee marKEET appararenLEE. Ah hope you deed not have zees
stocks ma fren by dam.

If the problem here is people wearing fakes driving away the market for the real thing, we have to remember first of all that paste gems have been around for centuries at least. Of course, it was always understood that the dowager had the real thing in a safe, if she wore a copy. ( How often that wasn't true! )

The only change I see is lots of people willing to wear copies without pretending they have the original at home. This secondary market is definately growing.

Chaining back a bit, if you aren't using new gold now in the very high-end market, how would a shift in their habits affect gold/platinum use?

In my experience, the very rich often make a religion of discretion. I am reminded of an old friend who had one of the original four hand-built prototype Ford Mustangs, with a ferrari engine hidden inside. On the outside it looked like a regular old mustang. He taught me the primary importance of discretion and privacy to persons of wealth. These will be the most valued intangible assets of the 21st century. All these fake gems make beautiful cover for your discerning clients. Enjoy!

I politely wish to differ to your:

"Why would anyone but the purist pay 10 times more for
genuine when the synthetic has the same crystal,
chemical, and optical characteristics as genuine and the
average jewelry professional cannot separate the two?
Not only diamonds, but emeralds, sapphires, rubies,
amethyst, garnet, and who knows what else are currently
being successfully synthesized."

I agree, every year we see new synthetics ( some good,
some bad ) but to say the average jeweler cannot seperate them
is a bit harsh. I've been a professional for twenty years
and I can spot a Verneuil ruby or a Chatham synthetic
from across the room, likewise with CZs. Hydrothermal
emeralds are tough to spot without high power magnification.
The jewelry store that lost the suit was stupid. I flat out
tell people that they can expect their emeralds to be oiled
and the sapphires to be heat treated. I've only seen a few
untreated stones, and I had a GIA lab report to back it up.

As for the gold jewelry industry to wane; I doubt t,
it's just seperating out the "Walmart" shopper from the quality
shopper a bit sooner.

Just my opinion.

Thanks for the bookmark.

Signing off. Keep your matches dry! Prometheus

I politely wish to differ to your:

"Why would anyone but the purist pay 10 times more for
genuine when the synthetic has the same crystal,
chemical, and optical characteristics as genuine and the
average jewelry professional cannot separate the two?
Not only diamonds, but emeralds, sapphires, rubies,
amethyst, garnet, and who knows what else are currently
being successfully synthesized."

I agree, every year we see new synthetics ( some good,
some bad ) but to say the average jeweler cannot seperate them
is a bit harsh. I've been a professional for twenty years
and I can spot a Verneuil ruby or a Chatham synthetic
from across the room, likewise with CZs. Hydrothermal
emeralds are tough to spot without high power magnification.
The jewelry store that lost the suit was stupid. I flat out
tell people that they can expect their emeralds to be oiled
and the sapphires to be heat treated. I've only seen a few
untreated stones, and I had a GIA lab report to back it up.

As for the gold jewelry industry to wane; I doubt t,
it's just seperating out the "Walmart" shopper from the quality
shopper a bit sooner.

Just my opinion.

According to attached USAGold report, TVX short lots of silver. I wonder what other derivatives exposure is out there by mining companies?

http://www.usagold.com/Daily%20Quotes

gold is good--*go gold*

Last week I convinced my father to get out of MM accounts, CDs, and other paper instruments. I am one of 7 children and the executor of the will. I've worked a deal to guarantee ( ? ) him at least some fixed stability for capital retention and conservative growth by using capital to buy mortgages that are at most 50% equity in the property.

1 problem persists with his pension fund. Cannt get The Bank of New York ( who owns CTC Illinois Trust Company ) to change from a monthly pension allocation to a "lump sum". The lump sum will get some more capital for PM investing. I personally purchase PMs in 1997 for my father until this is resolved.

DOES ANYONE KNOW if a law exists stating that if a pensioner chooses to acquire lump sum ( minus his already gotten gains ) in lieu of monthly distribution it must be allowed ????

I realize that it is in the best interest of the Trust Company to maintan the account since they get handling fees BUT I can't push them unless I have some facts. The reason I am suspicious is because they are not very willing to put their denial of the conversion in writing....

TIA

You stand as one ( 1 ) . You can not survive against Terrorcrats, for they exist as many, financed/supported by the "We The People".

I support many of your stated positions, yet, we both sit at our keyboards, and read the printed words on our screen. No, nothing will/can be done about Terrorcrats. The "We The People" demand the reasoning of these gifted/Professional Terrorcrats. ( corporate/government ) ( SUITS )

It has become impossible to avoid these Terrorcrats, and "ALL" Citizens are impacted, but, no one gives a damn. You and I may care, BIG DEAL EH!
There is no money to be made, in having a concern about such matters.
Thanks Take Care.

joe, sounds good. I have been analysing some low grade gold and very lowgrade Pt group ore. Independent analysis shows AU, PT and Pd. My work is mostly by assay and tyhe nature of the beads put me on to the PT group. Can you post the type of ore and assay numbers? when my email comes to work, maybe we could discuss a little. Many thanx, Charlie Devoto

Think for a minute. Try, I know it's
difficult. About what you just said.
When your done thinking then
let me know. I'll understand if I
don't hear from you for awhile.
By the way how was your bus
ride this morning? I see people
riding em, but never been
on one. I'm interested to know.

Think for a minute. Try, I know it's
difficult. About what you just said.
When your done thinking then
let me know. I'll understand if I
don't hear from you for awhile.
By the way how was your bus
ride this morning? I see people
riding em, but never been
on one. Am interested to know.

I am using gems and metals for healing purposes and of course
a faked emerald etc will not do the trick. Professional healers in this area can determine whether a stone is real because if put on the
right zone of the skin, the relief can be felt and the health
improvement can be seen by getting accustomed to see/feel the
aura. The same applies to metals. So do not only expect to
see rising prices because of paer money excesses.

http://www.buildfreedom.com go here and read a bit. I think you will enjoy what you find.

I was sitting her thinking that nobody is selling or buying
to much,everybody is waiting to buy or sell on some kind of a move
so checked it out ,I show only 190 vol. 80.000 o.i. last week vol. was over 50,000 on a few occasions,so must be the olympic break?

Go to Kentucky and learn about Blue GRASS.

Sorry re "someone", but couldn't get back. Chlorine is not good for PT, but hot Aqua Regia will take it. There may be some combos in the halides also, but I only used A/R.

Your previous post is disturbing. If we draw your discussion toward a logical conclusion it implies the end of civilization and back to Feudalism with the loss of all hope. I wish we all don't take this view. What we need is someone to inspire the masses and inform them as to the reality of the world,,,,they need to abolish the IRS and replace it with something that allows infrastructure and disasters to be paid for via private Trust funds,,,,, we need a return to normalcy regarding fiat currency by attaching to every $US a peg to something that cannot be man-made,,,, He/she must specify what the Constitution requires in simple terms,,, the new paradigm can be achieved politically,,,, first we start with 1% backing, then 2%, then .... until the discussion changes from balanced-budgets and deficit reductions TO increasing the non-man-made backing and decreasing government service ( a.k.a. "newly-defined-Entitlements" ) ,,, it is this view that we need to disseminate and not one of hopelessness and despair,,,, it can be done BUT it is very difficult getting through the media, power brokers, international cartel, etc.

This is not to say your view has not been thought/discussed many times by me and/or others who have good sense BUT our disgust of the current system and feeling of being "out-of-the-loop" on decision-making should not override the desire to "Beat these bastards" at OUR game.

If we play their game we must abide by their rules .... change the game by speaking up and keep at 'em......

Turmoil rocked Heaven this morning as allegations arose that God had
had an affair with a former worshipper. The scandal was begun when a 21
year old woman, known only as Mary, claimed that she had given birth to
God's "only son" last week in a barn in the hamlet of Bethlehem.

Sources close to Mary claim that she "had loved God for a long time",
that she was constantly talking about her relationship with God, and that
she was "thrilled to have had his child." In a press conference this
morning,

God issued a vehement denial, saying that "No sexual relationship
existed", and that "the facts of this story will come out in time, verily".

Independent counsel Kenneth Beelzebub immediately filed a brief with the
Justice department to expand his investigation to cover questions of
whether any commandments may have been broken, and whether God had
illegally funnelled laundered money to his illegitimate child through
three foreign operatives know only as the "Wise Men". Beelzebub has
issued subpoenas to several angels who are rumored to have acted as
go-betweens in the affair.

Critics have pointed out that these allegations have little to do with the
charges that Beelzebub was originally appointed to investigate, that God
had created large-scale flooding in order to cover up evidence of a failed
land deal.

In recent months, Beelzebub's investigation has already been expanded
to cover questions surrounding the large number of locusts that plagued
God's political opponents in the last election, as well as to claims that
the
destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gommorah was to divert attention
away from a scandal involving whether the giveaway of a parcel of public
land in Promised County to a Jewish special interest group was quid pro
quo for political contributions.

If these allegations prove to be true, then this could be a huge blow to
God's career, much of which has been spent crusading for stricter moral
standards and harsher punishments for wrongdoers. Indeed, God recently
outlined a "tough-on-crime" plan consisting of a series of 10
"Commandments", which has been introduced in Congress in a bill by Rep.
Moses. Critics of the bill have pointed out that it lacks any provisions
for the rehabilitation of criminals, and lawyers for the ACLU are planning
to fight the "Name in Vain" Commandment as being an unconstitutional
restriction on free speech.

http://www.buildfreedom.com

click on Freedom Technology

then

click on documents

then

click on Affidavit of Truth

READ!!!

Bookmarked it the other day when U posted it,,,,thanx!

hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've got the same problem with my wife's. If you get a definitive answer, just post to me an OK and when my email works I'll get to you. thanx

Go read that document I pointed out, then let me know what you think when you have had time. thnx

Some models of electronic pool chlorinators use for anode titanium plated with platinum. I had one of those and the platinum coated anode worked for 5 years.

Someone told me that gold could not be used as anode. I didn't trust him and I put a small 90% ( 22K ) gold coin inside the chlorinator to see if chlorine will attack it. Two days later when I checked the coin in the chlorinator, 1/3 of the coin was gone.

This could not verify 100% that chlorine attacks gold because I did not have 100% pure gold in the chlorinator. BUT, Platinum is not attacked by chlorine, that is why Platinum plated anodes are used.

This of course reconfirms the fact that Platinum is a much superior in properties metal than gold. Besides, CBs don't have any !

I decided to diversify some investments into Pt, and I look for excuses to commit more funds into it.

Neophyte more on TVX,

Look who are the holders of the debt of TVX, I don't suppose for one moment there could have been any "encouragement" to short silver --- this from last year:

Friday November 21, 9:16 am Eastern Time

Company Press Release

TVX Gold Inc. Announces Closing of US$180 Million Senior
Revolving Credit Facility

TORONTO-- ( BUSINESS WIRE ) --Nov. 21, 1997--TVX Gold
Inc. ( TSE:TVX. - news; ME:TVX. - news; NYSE:TVX - news )
TVX Gold Inc.
announced today that it has successfully completed a US$180
million Senior Revolving Credit Facility with a group of major
International financial institutions. The syndicate was led by The
Chase Manhattan Bank of Canada, acting as Administrative Agent
for the Facility, with Royal Bank of Canada [NYSE:RY - news]
and Barclays Bank PLC acting as Syndication Agent and
Documentation Agent respectively. In addition, the banking
syndicate includes BT Bank of Canada, Credit Lyonnais Canada,
Deutsche Bank Canada, N.M. Rothschild & Sons Ltd., The
Toronto Dominion Bank, Paribas Bank of Canada and Republic
National Bank of New York
( Canada ) .

Crusty/ falofal / Others interested in Amex. Neophyte's post included this gem:

There's an
unconfirmed story going around that the recent merger between AMAX Gold and Kinross has a
time-bomb hidden in it. Millions of ounces of gold forwarded by both companies will have to be
covered in order for the merger to occur.


auratortickticktick

Even in the face of a 2.5 million troy ounces drop so far this week in the Comex inventory, Silver looks tired!

It has been so mediatized since the peak of the euphoria last Thursday that the very complex trading psychology is doing its job leaving the small traders/investors who bought when the market became "a sure thing" in disbelief.

Today, we even started to hear some news about some Silver reappearing here and there, how convenient for those who are trying to take advantage of the current higher prices!

http://www.fee.org/about.html

tolerant1: Will do. Hope this returns the favor.
6pak: check this one out if U get a chance.

and we thought you didn't have a sense of humor !

Date: Wed Feb 11 1998 13:28

Donald__A ( Investigation continues ) ID#26793:

Date: Wed Feb 11 1998 03:52

EB ( .............for all lgb....and other BC fans....... ) ID#22956:

May GOD have mercy on you and your love ones.

Thanks. I shall look into it.

Seems to have some support around $7.00, but I agree with you. If anything, the Warren Buffest news disrupted the linear flow of this bull market by bringing the general public in a bit too soon.

However, perhaps the progression of events will shake out some of the "weak" silver from storage, reduce future volatility from non investors junping in as panic buyers, and return us to the path we were on before, after some base building.

3 or 4 months of fairly flat trading range, $6.40 to $7.20 and then higher in the next big move? ( Assuming no drastic market condition changes... )

Donald: Hope all's well. Kenneth Starr's investigations are heating up, the equity markets blithely rally, and the world currency crises are 'ticking'. Periods of quiet interrupted by periods of storms. Just like the El Nino weather.

Good thing you don't have a Calif-on-the-Pacific-Cliffs-Beach-house, likely to be converted into a leaky houseboat. Remember that Jack Lemmon movie where his Calif house ( or pool ) sank into the Ocean? I think that was inspired by the 1982 or so ElNino events.

Question is, how stable will an agreement with the Russkie's be in the long run?


Tuesday February 10, 4:59 pm Eastern Time

Company Press Release

SOURCE: Pan American Silver Corp.

Pan American Silver Corp. Announces Signing Of Major Agreements
Concerning Dukat Project, Russia

VANCOUVER, Feb. 10 /CNW-PRN/ - Pan American Silver Corp. ( TSE: PAA - news; NASDAQ: PAASF - news )
announces the signing, in Russia, of two major agreements concerning the Dukat silver project in Magadan Oblast,
Far East Russia. The signings follow awarding of the rights to the project in an open international tender in
mid-November, 1997 to Dukat Silver Company ( ZAO Serebro Dukat ) , a Russian company owned 70% by a wholly
owned subsidiary of Pan American and 30% by Magadan-based OAO Geometall Plus.

In the first agreement, the Mining Licence Agreement, Dukat Silver Company has been formally granted the
exclusive, long-term right to develop and mine the 477 million ounce Dukat silver deposit. The second agreement,
the Joint Venture Agreement between Pan American and Geometall Plus, sets out, in detail, the rights and
obligations of Pan American and its Russian partner.

The Dukat project is proceeding on schedule. The feasibility study, being carried out by Kvaerner Metals - GOT
Engineering, is expected to be completed in June. A thorough check sampling program at Dukat has been completed
and shows excellent correlation with Russian assay data. Ore reserves are being updated and mine design
engineering is underway. Bulk samples were collected and processed to provide metallurgical data for mill design.
Initial results confirm high silver and gold recoveries. Discussions with sources of project financing are underway.

Under the Mine Licence Agreement, Dukat Silver Company received approval to conduct a study to construct a
silver refinery in the Magadan region which would upgrade the silver produced at the mine, thereby lowering costs
and improving silver marketability.

Pan American is a silver mining company with an inventory of over 650 million ounces of silver in reserves and
resources. In 1997, Pan American produced 2.84 million ounces of silver from its Quiruvilca mine, Peru. The
Company is in good financial condition with US$37.8 million in working capital, including US$32.0 million in cash,
no debt, and positive earnings from its Quiruvilca mine.

The statements that are not historical facts are forward-looking statements involving known and unknown risks and
uncertainties that could cause actual results to vary materially from the targeted results. Such risks and uncertainties
include those described in the Company's Form 40-F as amended.

SOURCE: Pan American Silver Corp.

Dear Heavy:

Like many of us here, I think, then post. You and Ziva should try it, too. BTW, what's the thing you have with busses?

This will be my last post ever to you Heavy. I will not reply or react to anything you may post in the future because I will be scrolling past your posts, no matter how many times you post them. I really think you would be happier if you found another forum somewhere for your lack of ideas and content. I know I would be if you did.

Good-by and good luck.

THINGS YOU HAVE TO KNOW
1. A duck's quack doesn't echo, and no one knows why.
2. The "save" icon on Microsoft Word shows a floppy disk, with the
shutter on backwards.
3. The combination "ough" can be pronounced in nine different ways.
The following sentence contains them all: "A rough-coated,
dough-faced, thoughtful ploughman strode through the streets of
Scarborough; after falling into a slough, he coughed and hiccoughed."
4. The verb "cleave" is the only English word with two synonyms which
are antonyms of each other: adhere and separate.
5. The only 15 letter word that can be spelled without repeating a
letter is uncopyrightable.
6. Facetious and abstemious contain all the vowels in the correct
order, as does arsenious, meaning "containing arsenic."
7. Emus and kangaroos cannot walk backwards, and are on the Australian
coat of arms for that reason.
8. Cats have over one hundred vocal sounds, while dogs only have about
ten.
9. The word "Checkmate" in chess comes from the Persian phrase "Shah
Mat," which means "the king is dead".
10. Pinocchio is Italian for "pine head."
11. Camel's milk does not curdle.
12. In every episode of Seinfeld there is a Superman somewhere.
13. An animal epidemic is called an epizootic.
14. Murphy's Oil Soap is the chemical most commonly used to clean
elephants.
15. The United States has never lost a war in which mules were used.
16. Blueberry Jelly Bellies were created especially for Ronald
Reagan.
17. All porcupines float in water.
18. Hang On Sloopy is the official rock song of Ohio.
19. Lorne Greene had one of his nipples bitten off by an alligator
while he was host of "Lorne Greene's Wild Kingdom."
20. Cat's urine glows under a blacklight.
21. If you take a raccoon's head to the Henniker, New Hampshire town
hall, you are entitled to receive $10.00 from the town.
22. The reason firehouses have circular stairways is from the days of
yore when the engines were pulled by horses. The horses were stabled
on the ground floor and figured out how to walk up straight
staircases.
23. Non-dairy creamer is flammable.
24. The airplane Buddy Holly died in was the "American Pie." ( Thus the
name of the Don McLean song. )
25. Texas is also the only state that is allowed to fly its state flag
at the same height as the U.S. flag.
26. The only nation who's name begins with an "A", but doesn't end in
an "A" is Afghanistan.
27. When opossums are playing 'possum, they are not "playing." They
actually pass out from sheer terror.
28. The Main Library at Indiana University sinks over an inch every
year because when it was built, engineers failed to take into account
the weight of all the books that would occupy the building.
******************************************************************
Only the individual sender is responsible for the content of this message, and the message does not necessarily reflect the position
or policy of the National Education Association or its affiliates.

Donald, your 13:28 post is very offensive to all Christian world.
I hope you did not compose the post, otherwise, I question your intellect.

Toleranti, You find Donald's post "hilarious"? I find it blasphemous.

Loved your "off topic" post and may I reciprocate... What's the difference between the Titanic and Bill Clinton?

Only 1500 people went down on the Titanic..... OK, bad joke hour is over, back to silver & Gold!

What do Bill Clinton and the "Titanic" have in common ?

A: They both had over 500 women go down on them.

I 2nd your views!! Not very funny at all.

Your url @ ( FWO ) : What is free world order - The basic idea behind free world order - link - "FILE NOT FOUND" Such is the reality of "FREEDOM" eh!

Thanks Take Care.

See: http://router.minot.com/~bohl/ it will be interesting to see todays close and overseas tonight. It may be time to get on the side lines for now; anybody?

Where's Puetz when I need him? I missed this entire DOW move because Puetz didn't post any crash prediction here week before last. How did he miss his crash prediction, just prior to the incredible move up we've seen? I coulda made a bundle....oh well...still wiating for the tide to turn....but corporate earnings reports are a long way off. In my own company, we've been seriously hurt by Asian crises, several satellite orders suspended and cancelled from that region. People are underestimating the long term effects of the debacle, on our own economic bottom line. And this from a former DOW cheerleader.....

Randfontein currently yeilds 14.5 %. Is anyone buying these shares? John?

Can they mine it as fast as we buy it?

Mexican producer to raise silver output

MEXICO CITY -- Industrias Penoles, the world's largest silver producer, said Tuesday that silver production will increase 5 percent in 1998, a timely development as prices soar.

Penoles' silver output is expected to increase to about 38.64 million ounces from 1997's estimated output of 36.8 million ounces, a Penoles official said.

Higher output comes as silver prices jumped to a 9 1/2-year high last week after billionaire investor Warren Buffett said his company, Berkshire Hathaway, owned an amount equal to about one-fifth of known world supplies.

Silver for March delivery rose as much as 3.2 percent to $7.17 an ounce Tuesday on the Commodity Exchange in New York amid robust demand and low supply.

As to whether the average jewelry store can determine the genuine nature of a stone, have you not seen the Dateline segments where Tiffany, Fortunoff, Macy, Bailey Banks & Biddle all sold opticon filled emeralds without disclosure? Then there was a more recent one where the show bought emeralds which were synthetic and not disclosed. The standard response was, I only buy from reputable dealers but they failed to disclose to me. When I question dealers as to how they know their stones are not treated or synthetic, the response is, I only buy from reputable cutters. No one is checking.

Also, treaters and synthesizers are getting more sophisticated as the technological revolution progresses. Synthetic Moisanite fools thermal diamond testers, has a hardness of 9.5, and looks alot more like a diamond than CZ.

As to Fred Ward being stupid in the Washington D.C. case, the claimant admitted to knocking the emerald on her kitchen table. Her "expert" witness testified that the jar only loosened the filler and exposed a pre-existing break and did not break the stone. It was absurd. He was not backed up by GIA on that. It still comes down to an undetectable treatment. I agree with you that blanket disclosures are effective legally but it has killed many a sale of mine.

I still say jewelry demand will decrease because there will be less appeal to jewelry.

Your post of 14:00. I third your views! Donald's 13:28 post is not funny and is blasphemous.

Anyone here anything recently regarding SOROS acquisition of SIL ??

I don't think so and aparently not many others,unbelievable
low volume under 200 o.i. going up GC J8 83000,givin
all the fundamental reasons to go down ( threat of cb's selling Korean's sellimg etc. ) and it hasn't to me is very bullish.What is
S.H. going to stop being a bull factor{dead or alive ) or is
B.C. going to tell the truth so this little escaped can
be out to rest?noway ,asian mon. mess fixed soon,I doubt
it,some I'm staying in and looking to increase my position
on a 5-8 dollar break either way,up or down.

One mans theology is another mans belly laugh.

Of all the strange "crimes" that human beings have legislated out of nothing, "blasphemy" is the most amazing - with "obscenity" and "indecent exposure" fighting it out for second and third place.

~~Lazarus Long ( REH )

( Go gold ) .

Amazing how some people find this garbage post worthy of positive remarks.

Indescretion, insensitivity, irony, blasphemy, disrespect and many other epithets characterize Donald's post.

I addition, plain stupidity to enter it in a gold investment forum.

LGB: I think D.A. was right that we will not have a SEAsia goods Tsunami. SEAsia will not be buying expensive high-tech goods for some time, and cheap goods production from SEAsia may fall off for a period as well. When their economies start to recover, all of those US dollars will come home to roost.

What really worries me is this: The SEAsians are very frugal, and have bought precious metals with their savings. If the same kind of crisis occurs in the USA, we will not recover any where near as fast. Just a thought.

My opinion of the markets is that they don't know they are in trouble yet -- but if there is a Saddam Hussein coup de tat without US casualties, and AG refuses to raise rates, we might reach 10000 by year end. Those are big ifs -- and then there is the Kenneth Starr if as well.

I have some investments in PAASF. If their Russian deal folds, will it affect them very much?

me too,thanks for saying so,make me #4

Why is that all of you guys come out of nowhere when someone tries to
post something that he thinks is a light hearted joke ? I am sure that no offense was intended in any way and I ( and quite a few others ) thought it was funny. Some of you really need to grow up !

George ( the Dad ) Soros has some shares in the company. His son is a more active participant. The SEC filings can be found for free at the EDGAR site. Here is the Yahoo ticker with all of the latest news!
http://quote.yahoo.com/quotes?symbols=SIL

All: I consider Donald one of the gentlest, most considerate ( and prolific ) posters on Kitco.

I remember being blown away by an Astrology post he made several months ago -- Vedic, and very 'unDonald'-like! I think we all must be aware that our tastes for jokes are highly variable -- I remember a boss who would joke about things that no one else understood -- didn't single anyone in particular out -- just different. In his case it was because he came from a different culture.

I know Donald well enough that he had no intention of offending anyone. Lets get back to our usual world-shaking topics of the day!

At least Donald was lucky enough to get a response to his post. I have asked numerous questions about gold of the group and never had a reply. This is more a forum for individuals to beat their own drum and try to score off others than a group with an aim of sharing and increasing its knowledge about precious metals.

Gentlemen, if I invented or repeated a joke that your wife slept with another man, your daughter engaged in an orgy etc. and I posted this joke, not only you will be offended, but extremely disgusted with my behaviour, you even may want to kill me.
Reason: you love your wife or daughter.

You did something similar to us. We happen to believe and love God.

Avalon, I am surprised you see nothing wrong.

.

Is it you that believes in sunspots and their effect on bull / bear markets.

Well if you take your mind off the sunspots, you may be able to spot what is real "humour".

Good-bye and good riddance.
Not having such a good day
are ya PH. What happened
did you miss the bus?

Myrmidon, This will be my last comment on this matter.There is probably not one joke that I have heard in my lifetime that could not be construed by someone as offensive. The mature thing to do is to turn a "blind ear" to it and move on. What gets me, is the way that everyone suddenly jumps all over the joketeller who happens to be one of the most informative and mild mannered posters on this forum. And some of the guys who jump all over him are folk who just lurk and never post anything. THAT's what really gets me. You can't just lurk and then criticise someone if you don't agree with their post. That's not fair.

Robh is right:

At least Donald was lucky enough to get a response to his post. I have asked numerous questions about gold of the group and never had a reply. This is more a forum for individuals to beat their own drum and try to score off others than a group with an aim of sharing and increasing its knowledge about precious metals.

You can't argue with experience. The concentration of CL in your bath may be a clue. My experience is with ore. I have refined gold that was well below 90%. This was with aqua regia. 3 parts HCL and 1 part HNO3. The solution power of CL here is for gold. I do know a/r will get PT into solution. How PT is affected by CL is beyond my experience, but since a/r, which has a lot of CL, it appears lower concentrations of CL may not get PT. I usually use muriatic when refining, and it gets both gold & PT. The only future I know about PT is the environmental aspect and I believe that PD is a possibility also. I don't know much- just what I read. You might want to check some metallurgical ref. Adolph Thiees in late 1800's developed the chlorination process for gold. The only ref. I know is T.K. Rose, pub in England about 1895. Hope this helps. Any trouble, feel free to contact me. Cheers

Where did you pick up the information that Bank America Corp. owns 6.96% of Vengold; was the source reliable?
Thanks for posting and hoping for a reply to the above questions, if possible.
Big players follow big players and Lihir is sure to be a major producer. It's insulated from mainland New Guinea problems ( 600km ) and contained in a relatively small area, meaning that they don't have the major logistics problem that companies with many mines scattered around the globe have.

Probably your questions were unanswered because,

a. nobody knew the answer
b. the question was too simple to warrant an answer

SWP1, one thing is right, most people talk to themselves as ZIVA says.
She hit this one right.

Thank for all the info. I have disolved gold in Aqua Regia, but I couldn't afterwards recoverr the gold from the solution. I even evaporated the gold solution in my home oven. The remained dust I could not melt.

Guess what happened to the oven in my kitchen. It all corroded, the wife became furious, I had to throw it out and buy her another one!

I gave up on experiments with gold because if one is novice in the recovery process, such activities become very costly.

The latest gold charts and expert analysis is in the war-head ( handle with care )

I am sure what you say is true. I suspect the first answer is "that people dont know the answer" is more commonly the case as there does not appear to be much reticence amongst many here to show off what they do know even if the question were too simple. I think we could benefit from a response along the lines 'well I dont know the answer to that one but it may well be important. Does anyone else know ?' Rather than just ignoring it for fear of showing our ignorance.

.

This site is workin t'day~~~~~~~~Will the DOW close above 8,300 today?XAU down .75 ( yawn---burp )

Or you will burn in hell. Either that, or you will be forced to proof read Ziva's silly, paranoid missives 14 hrs a day.

All: Lets get back to Kitco topics. Have you all forgotten it is Donald who is our news machine? He may not want to post for a while, so it is our loss not his.

Also I have noticed my fuse is a little shorter than usual, and so is SDRer's -- one who usually shows more tolerance than virtually any other on Kitco. I think we all need to cool off a bit -- even if the markets are doing the unexpected. Patience is a virtue.

Are you in Ca., W. Va. or N.Y.? Re: Donald's 13:28....I think my God thought it was pretty funny....but I'm only human. God=Good or Good=God? Go Goldbugs!

I understand that the horses do very well on it. Music is O.K. too.

SWP1: I have never seen your 'call sign' before. If you only post rarely you may have to repeat the post. I remember how hard it was for me, until the regulars started to notice. Why don't you post me a summary of your requests, and I will try to help, and addres it to others who may know better than I.

I am no expert in gold -- seriously following since 1993 only.

There are others far more expert than me, and some who profess to be experts as well. I think it was Myrmidon that said that it may be because no one knows the answer -- in that case you were lucky not to get an answer from one of the less knowledgable that claim to know everything.

You undoubtedly have been lurking for some time, so you probably know who to trust and who not to trust.

There are 3 more probable answers:

c. The person who knew the answer was engaged in another conversation which he did not want to interrupt, but intended to answer you at a later time and he forgot.

d. The person who knew the answer was engaged in another conversation which he did not want to interrupt, and ASSUMED that someone else will answer your question.

e. The question was answered but you did not see the answer if you did not look at all posts ( although this is unlike if you read all posts ) .

Question for you. When a question is asked in this forum, do you reply if you don't know the answer? I keep quite to conserve bandwidth for others to use. That is why I never put long posts, and always refer people to the appropriate site.

I called CBOE and talked to there institutional specialists, he informed me that there was a "short-short" rule which was that a fund could not short any stocks, that rule has been repeeled. Also that the main limitations derive from the funds themselves, no limitations for the most part from SEC. He did state for the most part MF do not use this practice, although there is such positions there, they mostly sell calls on stock they own. I explained the senerio that I posted earlier, he stated that a condition as describe very unlikely to happen. The one thing he stated was he didn't feel this was a sell market with the new highs being made.

Felt compelled to a least to provide some info at this sight since I'm generally a taker, which doesn't sit right with me.


Thanks again for everybodies efforts!

30 yr. bond at 5.85%. Volume on NYSE 595 million shares. NASDAQ volum 759 million shares. All of the increase in the Dow came this afternoon, because a couple of hours ago, it was flat.

Today, every time gold got knocked down, it picked itself up, dusted itself off, and started all over again. Though ending slightly down, could have been much worse ( and still ABOVE $300 ) . To a NOVICE the action looks much improved over past performance ( at least over much of past two years ) , when it would have simply folded its tent under pressure. JMHO.

I can appreciate that. That's where I started, but you need an oven that's about a 2' cube and goes to about 2000 degrees c+. The 2' cube is overall. Without going into intimate detail here, I have a procedure I can mail to you that goes from concentrate to about 999 pure. If you want to go to 9999 just do it over. My email is still not working, so post your address or call me at 704 433 6473. Good luck.

I just caught the last few minutes of ABX's Peter Munk on CNBC.
A couple of salient points:
When asked about possible acquisitions he said that they were more focused on improving their existing mines & getting their cost per oz. even lower, even though they are already the lowest cost producer. He said that within 6-12 months they may take a closer look at possible acquisitions. This tells me that he is'nt expecting the POG to take off anytime soon.

He made an interesting point that John Disney may not agree with. He said that they have the highest cash flow of any AU miner ( 500m this year ) even though some of the S.African mines produce many more ozs.

Off to the golf course to take advantage of the warm sunny weather in Victoria.

.

Very distressing news today indeed regarding TVX and Kinross-Amax.

Unfortunately, the distress in the junior mining sector has caused many of these companies to play the derivatives game...with very disastrous results.

Based upon the new revelations, then I must revoke my recommendations completely of both TVX and Kinross-Amax.

However, I remain completely faithful to my prediction that the DOW will experience a major disaster within a fairly short period of time...and said disaster will certainly benefit the POG and POS.

You are right about Donald at least getting a response to his joke, even though it was mediocre at best. I guess what you have to do is post something anti gold & controversial. Astrological mkt predictions have been known to elicit a response from LGB. But be reasonable, you can't expect to be embraced by the senior sages here until you have proved your mettle. Keep trying & be patient & maybe someday you will be a member of that self congratulary group who exchange inanities & remind each other of how clever they are several times a day.

We luv you, man....now, this Bud's for you!

Well I have just done my daughter's college fund on SP puts. TVX was just a long shot. I am dead in the water.


Hey Ziva, can I join your suicide cult now? Just dont think I can wait till the end of the year to be vaporized.



Auric That was the best job offer Ive had in years. Minister of Fun, Laughs, Good times. hah hah,, I think I'm gonna jump outa winda.

The last paragraph in the attached article is very interesting indeed.

Aurator - thanks for the info on TVX. I hope this won't further decimate the industry.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980211/imf_short__1.html

I gave up drinking about 8 years ago, after 25 years of tipping them. It was real hard to do but I stuck it out. I find being a goldbug today to be of similar pain. Is there someplace we can go to meetings? Hi, my name is Digdeep Im a goldbug !

Here you have a man who, via his last little intervention in SE Asia, is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of men in Vietnam.

Now, he is calling for significant IMF aid for SE Asia so that American taxpayers can assist all his rich corporate buddies who are getting their financial butts kicked over there.

Believe me, I feel extremely bad for those unfortunate people in Asia. Yet, I believe it is corporate America and its shareholders who should pay for the mess over there...the taxpayers who avoided the stock market this past decade should not be forced to pay a cent for the SE Asian mess.

In other words, it is time to stop propping up a ridiculously over-valued American stock market with non-investor monies!!! Let the weak foundations crumble if that is what it takes to avoid penalizing those taxpayers that have not pigged out on the DOW riches of this past decade.

This is not my message so don't give me credit or static for it. I pasted it from the TVX Yahoo message board.

******************

Call options have been sold to partly finance the puts.
Call options have been sold, total 1.41 million ounces of gold at $US
433/ounce and 59.8 million ounces of silver at $US 6.67.

Through a combination of forward sales and put options, TVX bought put options of 1.46 million ounces of gold PROTECTED with a floor price of $US 427/ounce, and 34.2 million ounces of silver are PROTECTED at $US 6.25 .

TVX HAS NO SHORT POSITION !!!!!

******************

You can cry on my shoulder. I too feel
your pain. Recently I have searched for
new friends. The DOW. Gold has once
again betrayed me.

James: Did Peter Munk say anything about all of their gold forwards? There were rumors that the 'benefactor' that was paying them $410/oz or so for future production was unable to continue payments.

My intuitive guess is that Peter Munk ( who is very shrewd ) tried to get favorable gold forward derivatives trades so that production costs would not need to be reduced. I think he is eating crow on this somewhat, and now cutting costs. ABX is one of the world's biggest gold producers ( due mostly to Peter Munk ) , and should continue to do well under his management -- as long as he hasn't lost his 'Midas' touch.

You can cry on my shoulder. I too feel
your pain. Recently I have searched for
new friends. The DOW. Gold has once
again betrayed me.

I dont believe kissenger or munk or clinton or rubin or bush or gore or summers or greenspan or tony blaaaa.maybe gold.

from London-- ( 1 ) remember, last month he said a currency board was NOT feasible... ( 2 ) [FT] the banks have warned IMF and Saharto that Indonesias banking system is too weak to handle a currency board... ( 3 ) ...the vortex is the inability of govt oil and power monopolies to pay foreign contractors because the contracts are priced in dollars, and with many slippery edged hedges....its a mess...
Most with whom I spoke feel the peg and the board are bread crumbs to feed circling buzzards--and will be about as useful.

Jin, I earnestly echo JTFs that you be particularly cautious. The vision of a Sioux medicine man, Black Elk, standing on the central mountain of the world, I was seeing in a sacred manner, the shapes of all things in the spirit, and I saw that the sacred hoop of my people was one of many hoops that made one circle, wide as daylight and as starlight, and in the center grew one mighty flowering tree to shelter all the children of one mother and one father. May it be so, Jin.

Is HARMONICA LEWINSKY going to testify tomorrow?

.

How can this be? You told us last week in class that gold had been de-monetarized, was only useful for a door-stop or something.
A Big, Beautiful Wooden Medal to the first politician that tells the
same story two weeks running!
"Rubin...said the gold was needed to ensure IMF credit-worthiness."

Here's a relatively extensive report by Merrill Lynch that contains some hard supply and demand information on gold, silver, platinum & palladium.

The report comes complete with their opinion and a 300 word disclaimer.

http://www.kitco.com/ml.htm

refer: You are a gentleman for remembering from last night! So -- the shorting rules have been relaxed on MF's. I guess the investor needs to be a little more careful, and ask the appropriate question before buying a mutual fund. I will remember to ask this of Fidelity when I buy next time. These complex rules - likely to get more complex - are an excellent reason to stay away from 'funds of funds' like the plague.

I park my money in Fidelity Spartan 100% US treasury, apparently rated by Weiss ratings as one of the safest. I guess we need to find out if Weiss is rating mutual funds/mutual fund companies. Would be good for those of us who have retirement funds locked into particular MF companies. Does anyone have a current subscription to Weiss? Or -- know the phone number? Thanks in advance.

I have mixed feelings about the issue that caused the ruckus. On one hand, I'm a newly recommitted Christian with profound faith, and reverence for Gold ( you may have noticed somehwat of a personality shift away from the nasty dispositioned, EGOcentric, LGB that first inhabited this forum )
.....hence such jokes re God are indeed offensive to me, just as I feel an uncomfortable stab every time I hear God and Christ constantly used as expletives in daily speech.

On the other hand however, for those that don't share our faith, is it we who should restrict their satirical humor and be offended? or should we leave that between God and themselves? I seriously doubt that Donald meant offense. But in our society today we are rather quick to find personal offense, wherever we may.

I suspect God himself has quite a sense of humor, as we are "made in his image", though I don't doubt he was not amused at the joke in question. Nonetheless, I think Christains must hold themselves to their own prescribed standard of behaviour, rather than holding others to their standard of behaviour. Particularly in matters of faith.

This is always a difficult area. A defense of reverance for God may be reasonable, but squelching someone's speech who is not a believer, and demanding they have the same sensitivities, may not be reasonable. Just a few thoughts.....

Back on topic.....

FROM YAHOO TVX SITE:

TVX's hedge position at December 31, 1997 ensures a floor price for approximately four years of
future production. Through a combination of forward sales and put options, 1.46 million ounces of
gold are protected with a floor price of US$427/oz., and 34.2 million ounces of silver at US$6.25.
The total gold equivalent floor protection is 1.9 million ounces at US$427. Call options have been
sold to partly finance the puts; calls total 1.41 million ounces of gold at US$433/oz. and 59.8
million ounces of silver at US$6.67. The Company has in place additional put option protection
totaling 690,000 ounces of gold at an average price of US$358 per ounce for the year 2002 in
relation to a gold-linked note.

---------------------
SO......In other words, TVX wrote almost twice as many calls on silver as it sold forward @$6.25. Hence, TVX has an enormous short position on silver@6.67....extremely dumb move given the incredibly positive outlook for the metal at this moment.

Dow/Gold Ratio = 27.69 ( This is not a new high )

I agree - Donald is a valuable part of this forum and the information he provides is important and he should certainly not quit posting.

I for one appreciate very much the news he provides and the deep insight and views of other regulars ( Tolerant #1, JTF, sharefin, STUDIO.R. Avalon, Nick@C, - to mention just a few ) .

There are times when learner/observers ( such as The Hermit ) who usually find it difficult to post our thoughts feel there arises a time to speak out in a matter important to us. Such was today. Our belief in God and our respect for Him is our highest priority.

There was certainly no intent to have Donald or anyone else stop posting.

Respectfully,

The Hermit.

XAU/Spot Ratio = .248

Gold/Silver Ratio = 42.83

.

Well...As for Tiffany, Fortunaff, Macy, et al, I believe the cases illuminated greed more than incompetency. Who of us haven't met in the trade individuals who were pressured to "close the sale"- at the expense on ethics. Foolish and bad press for the rest of us in the jewelry business who try to be honest and informed.

*All* of these mentioned jewelers, should have damn well had several GIA graduates able to discern the differences in these stones. And hiding behind the excuse of , "we trusted our suppliers" when such large amounts of money change hands is insane.

You say in your straw poll that "no one is checking". That is a different position from the first post where you said that most jewelers couldn't *tell* the difference. Being unable to distinguish, and being too lazy to check are different things.

Looking at the ratio of gold and/or the CRB to the XAU I see a steady progression upward since the second quarter of 1996, with a huge

jump since October, sponsored no doubt by the Asian crisis. What this

says to me is, that since the second quarter of 1996, we have seen a gradual beginning ( like the clock passing midnight ) toward the light of a

day where real assets ( commodities ) appreciate more quickly than paper

assets. Warren Buffett's silver purchases would be a confirmation of this theory. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Very well put....as SDRer placed a great native American wisdom before the forum today, many hoops are linked together to form the almighty hoop of life. Please speak further to us.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980211/s_africa_g_1.html

Today, Janet Reno appointed an Independent Counsel to investigate Bruce Babbit.

http://allpolitics.com/1998/02/11/babbitt.ic/

It is difficult to believe that the government is still harassing this man. After he suffered for so long because of his wifes brutal attack. Personally, I think that Lorena Babbit should spend some time in prison, not Bruce !!!!

NOTE: today's reading is a preimum of .62 ounces or 0.60% to the 30 day moving average. This is the first time the line has crossed over in the limited time I have been calculating this.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980211/gingrich_s_2.html

Welcome to The Foundation for Economic Education ( FEE ) , dedicated to the preservation of individual freedom and the private property order.

Leonard Read - Manager of the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce. In Chamber publications he refuted the charges of labor exploitation and worker abuse and impoverishment, and rejected the contention of capitalist instability and mass unemployment.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooo "We The People" And "FREEDOM"

1933: The United States Chamber of Commerce & National Association of Manufacturers & American Federation of Labor ( AFofL )

The appointment of committees and commissions was President Hoover's way of dealing with the depression. He took no action to help the unemployed, backed the wage cuts, and favored "staggered employment."

In general the officials of the American Federation of Labor backed the President. They did not oppose the wage-cutting program nor did they offer any program of their own for the relief of the unemployed.

There were virtually no ( AFofL ) strikes in resistance to wage cuts as William Green, Matthew Woll and others of the hierachy joined President Hoover in assuring the workers that "prosperity was just around the corner"

Following the lead of the National Association of Manufacturers and the United States Chamber of Commerce, the ( AFofL ) , one year after the crisis began, went on record against unemployment insurance as "a hindrance to progress" " a dole " which would degrade "the dignity of the workingman" and "subsidized idleness"

As Green took his stand, the United States Chamber of Commerce described unemployment insurance as COMMUNISM, declared those fighting for it were UN-AMERICAN "trying to sap the initiative of the American people."

President Roosevelt himself "indicted" the dies Committee for its wholesale use of the RED SMEAR, calling its methods "a sordid procedure"

The "New World", important Catholic journal, declared the RED MENACE a myth created by the Liberty League, the United States Chamber of Commerce, and the National Association of Manufacturers.

"New World" If the Dies Committee "is really a committee to investigate ' un-American activities' the Catholic publication declared " it really should begin with itself and the first witness should be the Un-American Mr. Dies himself."

World War II Monopoly suddenly found itself, the unwilling ally of Communism it had so long condemned, the RED SCARE went out the window.
War was a time to make HUGE profits. The shouting RED, by labor leaders, doing the bidding of Monopoly, well, that time might come again.

Soooooooo, Thanks for your previous interest in my post, sorry if I can not accept your take on agencies that promote, so called "FREEDOM"

Take Care.

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POST OF YOUR LIFE !!!

GLOBAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE THIS SPRING !!!
WE ARE GOING INTO WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST, NOW!!!
===============================================

************************************************
Major Ed Dames formerly top Remote Viewer for the US Military
said on the Art bell Show ( http://www.artbell.com/ ) :
TOTAL GLOBAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE THIS SPRING.
************************************************

Listen to the whole interview at the Art Bell Archives :

http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/archive.html#feb98
click on 2-9-98
The interview starts on the second hour.
You can move the dial directly to the second hour.

*************************************************
PAY ATTENTION to his reply at 4:41 hours into the program.
IT WILL ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS.
You will thank me for the rest of your life!!!
*************************************************

You have been watching this forum for a long time
waiting to find a hint as to the possible future.
THIS IS THE POST YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR..
Those of you who have brain,
already verified my credibility.
DONT MISS THE BOAT !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


WARNING TO KITCOITS:
=====================

THERE ARE AGENTS AT THIS WEBSITE
WHO ARE TRYING TO CONFUSE YOU,
WASTE YOUR TIME AND RIDICULE ME.
DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THEM !!!
USE YOUR BRAIN !!!

I am exchanging E-mails recently with many of you.
All my corespondents are following my advice.
TIME IS GETTING SHORT.

PLEASE EXAMINE VERY CAREFULLY THE INFORMATION I PROVIDED.

I KNOW THAT SOME OF IT, WILL BE *OVER YOUR HEAD*,
I CAN NOT TEACH YOU NOW EVERYTHING, its too late.
THIS TIME, IT IS YOUR LIFE ON THE LINE,
NOT JUST YOUR GOLD.

UNFORTUNATELY EVERYTHING THAT I SAID IS HAPPENING NOW.
TAKE CARE OF YOUR FAMILY.

you must listen to this 4 hours,
and reorganize the rest of your life.
Please tape it, as you would like to listen to it many times.
Those of you who are new,
please go back and read all my posts as much as you can
to understand the background.

Everything that kitcoits have been talking about,
is about to happen, RIGHT NOW.
This is the eleventh hour
you can NOT wait anymore.

That is what should happen to Babitt.
He should have it bobbed short like Bobitt.

Ho! Ho! YEAR2000. Nice joke.

Seriously, that guy Babitt is no friend to
miners. It will be good to see hime taken
down for the count as the rotten Clinton
ass kiser that he is.

Robby -- We lost that ( re. socialism ) battle to. Look at how politics are done today. Find a 'needy' group and pay/buy them off. Slick excels at this. Most people preferr to focus in on the 'physical' aspect of Clintons' latest 'Bimbo eruption'. The question is, how will they ( public ) feel when we the military can't pull off some military mission, and the return on 'deposit' is body bags and humiliation?

This in a nutshell is what's wrong with gold today. The never ending, blind faith in the 'Leader'. He can do no wrong now. Everything is wonderful. Ken Starr is the bad guy. My question becomes, what would happen to you, if you tampered with witnesses and obstructed justice? If and when that reality sinks in, gold will shine brightly and the dollar will hit the ground with a sickening thud.

The other problem I see is the emulation of our 'leader'. I never heard so much talk of oral sex and other related matters before on national radio and TV. Bill Clinton is having a definte effect, and the masses aren't noticing it. Indeed, they are partaking in it. Something about slippery slopes comes to mind here but this is a gold site...

Untill Buba screws up big time, and the U.S. loses credibility, there doesen't seem to be much sense in shorting the Central Bank ( buying gold ) . On the other hand... The old Boy Scout motto says be prepared...

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POST OF YOUR LIFE !!!

GLOBAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE THIS SPRING !!!
WE ARE GOING INTO WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST, NOW!!!
===============================================

************************************************
Major Ed Dames formerly top Remote Viewer for the US Military
said on the Art bell Show ( http://www.artbell.com/ ) :
TOTAL GLOBAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE THIS SPRING.
************************************************

Listen to the whole interview at the Art Bell Archives :

http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/archive.html#feb98
click on 2-9-98
The interview starts on the second hour.
You can move the dial directly to the second hour.

*************************************************
PAY ATTENTION to his reply at 4:41 hours into the program.
IT WILL ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS.
You will thank me for the rest of your life!!!
*************************************************

You have been watching this forum for a long time
waiting to find a hint as to the possible future.
THIS IS THE POST YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR..
Those of you who have brain,
already verified my credibility.
DONT MISS THE BOAT !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


WARNING TO KITCOITS:
=====================

THERE ARE AGENTS AT THIS WEBSITE
WHO ARE TRYING TO CONFUSE YOU,
WASTE YOUR TIME AND RIDICULE ME.
DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THEM !!!
USE YOUR BRAIN !!!

I am exchanging E-mails recently with many of you.
All my corespondents are following my advice.
TIME IS GETTING SHORT.

PLEASE EXAMINE VERY CAREFULLY THE INFORMATION I PROVIDED.

I KNOW THAT SOME OF IT, WILL BE *OVER YOUR HEAD*,
I CAN NOT TEACH YOU NOW EVERYTHING, its too late.
THIS TIME, IT IS YOUR LIFE ON THE LINE,
NOT JUST YOUR GOLD.

UNFORTUNATELY EVERYTHING THAT I SAID IS HAPPENING NOW.
TAKE CARE OF YOUR FAMILY.

you must listen to this 4 hours,
and reorganize the rest of your life.
Please tape it, as you would like to listen to it many times.
Those of you who are new,
please go back and read all my posts as much as you can
to understand the background.

Everything that kitcoits have been talking about,
is about to happen, RIGHT NOW.
This is the eleventh hour
you can NOT wait anymore.

Studio R., SDRer, The Hermit, All: Especially the Hermit -- Thanks for reminding us all. I think many of you know my belief, based on the common thread through all religions, and the fact that quantum mechanics indicates that past-present-future are all connected. Hence there must be a God -- and -- we as humans have free will.

I think sites such as Kitco are especially important, as much has been lost in the world in the last 60 years or so. The same ethic that leads to saving/frugality/family ethic/honesty is somehow connected to the concept of gold as an asset that cannot be corrupted by human hands. I wish there were a similar moral compass -- such as gold -- for the political leader -- but alas, we have nothing except what is built into each of us.

I am not saying that all gold bugs are free of human frailties such as greed, but I think we are more acutely aware of when 'things are not quite right' or that we are being fed lies. What I hope is that sites such as Kitco will provide the catalyst to protect us all from financial disaster, and with our assets and insight provide the starting point of the next major economic cycle if our current system does collapse. I know AG is of like mind, but must work with the system given to him.

Here's to the future of humankind, and may we overcome our challenges peacefully, and reach the stars! I know that we have the knowledge at our fingertips to do this -- we just need a stable economic platform! Good night!

My sincere apologies! {:- ( ) I didnt for a moment realize Id let my general-state-of-degraded-mental-health show with such disgraceful lack of decorum!
I am now going out into the garden with the seeds of wisdom you have given me, to plant and cultivate a superior stand of Patience {:- )

Donald@Diogenes.for.our.Times I only know that your captions make
me grin, or chuckle and sometimes laugh aloud at what is--usually--darned depressing news! For which I thank you ( and for all the great, pointed 'captures' of bits and pieces that have REALLY helped. Thank you again.
StudioR@Wisdom's.Gate I love those words too. As I said to Jin, "May it be so.
I shall return Anon.

.

Farfel
TVX lists Paul Soros as a director on its board. With all the recent press
about brother George buying silver one would think this would
filter through to the TVX hedgemasters unless Paul Soros
is the Roger Clinton of the family.

Ziva: I enjoy Art Bell because he is open minded and listens to all who wish to speak, such as Ed Ames, or Father Modecai Martin. As I recall, Ed Ames is one of the Remote Viewers who worked with H Puthoff and Indigo Swann. I am interested in remote viewing for obvious reasons as a Physicist looking for new avenues of research. But -- I must caution you that such things may not lead to specific answers as to how and when something will happen.

The best way of putting this, I think, is that if God let us predict the future with certainty we would not learn anything. All Ed Ames is doing is telling us the possible, not what will happen.

You are a very bright person -- you need to calm down and smell the flowers some more. Get an anchor of some kind, please! You will benefit from this, and so will Kitco.

BART KITNER:
THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR SERVER.
It has a loooooooong delay,
is someone reading our posts before they are posted ?

YESTERDAY, IT WAS THE SAME PROBLEM!!!
I DID NOT POST ALL THESE MULTIPLE POSTS !!!
======

I posted a few minutes ago
and when your computer did not reply
I checked, and my post was not there !!
SO, I POSTED AGAIN.
This time both posts came out.

Others have similar problems:
======================
Date: Wed Feb 11 1998 10:00
Avalon ( @ Bart : Re Band width ) ID#254269:

I had a real problem getting into Kitco last night about 19.00. Tried to get
in several times and was totally unable. On one occassion, I was able to
get in, but totally unable to make any posts or to read the detailed posts of
others.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BART, MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE A SERIOUS CONVERSATION WITH YOUR
WEB-MASTER.

============================

Date: Wed Feb 11 1998 00:53
Bart Kitner ( Kitco ) ( Advertising ...get yer advertising. ) ID#25867:
To Ziva: I ask you again. Why do you persist in promoting that
stratferd.com site ? ..........

BART, I did not advertise
I just gave the URL of my source of information,
just like any other responsible kitcoit.
I never make money from the Internet!!!

=============================

AND SINCE WE ARE TALKING,
let me remind you that you forgot to reply to my post yesterday :


BART KITNER:
Let me remind you some of your guidelines:

Conduct Guidelines for the Kitco Discussion Groups
THINGS TO AVOID:
Dont use profanities or foul language.
Dont make any insulting remarks or statements that provoke other participants.
Dont post any unrelated comments that are likely to
arouse a strong emotional response.

BART, DO YOU FEEL THAT THE FOLLOWING THREE POSTS
COMPLY WITH YOUR GUIDELINES ?
============================

Date: Mon Feb 09 1998 21:48
oris ( Algae\Why Saddam is not talking directly? ) ID#238422:
He does not need to do it, he got "Zivas"...
===============

Date: Mon Feb 09 1998 21:40
oris ( John Disney ) ID#238422:
My brother John......
Ziva changed from Ziva to Aysha, but still is working
for Iraqies. What a mess! I think I was initially right
about Ziva...Death to spies and provocators!!!

====================

Date: Tue Feb 10 1998 00:29
oris ( Ziva, I never called you Queen, but I called you PIZDA. )
ID#238422:
If you want to know what PIZDA means, and you really don't,
I'll translate for you...

===================
*

Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Fell 64 troy ounces to 427,584

Silver: Plunged 2,691,589 ( ! ) troy ounces to 95,401,591 -A 15 year low!

An additional drawdown of almost 6 million ounces in Silver only this week! Today's stunning figures may be very difficult for Silver to ignore and it looks as though some more fireworks are now possible in the near term.

All,
I read in the "Kitco Guidelines" that if someone breaks the "don't" rules, we are not to respond, but to contact the "system administrator."

How would one do that?

The Preacher

Your work once again illustrates that lurking and learning at Kitco is a wonderfully profitable venture, in so many ways. This golden thread may be our passage to a safer and saner posterity.
Your words reminded me of a bit of wisdom passed to me by an elder from Memphis, Tn. some time back. He told me that the most important social event that had occured since the beginning of man's time was air conditioning. I thought it was a joke until he pointed out the reasoning. He explained that in "better" times people would retire to their front porches in the cool evening temperatures. It was too hot in the house because of the dinner cooking and daily heat gain. People would visit with each other from their porches and passerbys would freely exchange conversation too. People knew how each other felt...they were neighbors.
Not now....we're all inside enjoying the air conditioning...by our lonesome. Huh.

Maybe, neighborhoods like Kitco are modern relics of better times...and maybe the internet is more like a old lazy lane than a super information highway.

FOR SURE, that will do the trick, and save
a lot of bandwidth.

Ziva: Time is accelerating for you, not slowing down for the rest of us on Kitco. You need to slow down. If you continue your actions, Bart will be forced to disconnect you from our little world. And what you are doing is not good for you anyway.

Please take care and think about what I just said.

I'm looking for "agent 99". When you see
99 tell agent Scully's looking for em. We
need to investigate the possible conpiracy
here at Kitco. Imposters are lurking and posting
and pretending to being a part of this forum.
We need to get down to the bottom of this
immediately. Thank you for your cooperation

We control the vertical........We control the horizontal........

do you have site with a written transcript of what Dames has to
say on the Art Bell show?....i have no audio, and if i did am deaf
anyway.....thanks in advance....

The new silver inventory figures are astounding....the way things are going, silver will be trading at "cocaine" values within the next week or so.

Spillover effect to gold seems inevitable...the only question is when?

I don't know about cocaine values ( I'm just as ignorant as Mr. Clinton in this field ) but the current situation is shaping up in a way that the odds have increased greatly over the last hours for another possible upside explosion in the Silver market.

To get this far this quick below the 100 million ounces at the Comex warehouses ( 95 million as of today ) maybe a bit too much to handle for Silver given the current touchy situation and a reaction could be imminent.

Ed says buy physical gold--get out of all paper assets--He also
predicts the end of the world as we know it--so alot of good all
that physical gold will do you. What gets to me about this Dames
guy is that he is apparently hiding out in some safe area of the
world but will not tell anybody where that is or where else is
"safe." Definately sounds bizarre--but this world is bizarre.
Oh yeah, one other thing--Ed predicts that William's reign will end
prematurely but "he is not at liberty to say why"--
I'm going to have to discuss this issue with my associates in the
right wing conspiracy in order to shed the light of truth on our
destiny-Meanwhile, pass me a shot of Cuervo my work day is done.

Here is a web page that lists this particular transcript, as well as others.

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/spa/1219/

LGB--You ask "does God have a sense of humour". When one looks at the state of the world today e.g. self proclaimed christians like yourself who can rationalize the death of 500,000 children in Iraq because of vindictive U.S. policies, he...it either has a sense of humour or is the most evil, diabolical entity imaginable.

JTF: I enjoy Art Bell because he is on late and because he is SO open minded that his brains have fallen out long ago. It's one thing to be open minded and quite another to be credulous to the point of being a fool. Personally, I suspect he's smarter than he lets on and scripts all the stuff he presents so that those who already believe will be awed and/or frightened.

BTW, I believe that the correct names are Major Ed Dames and Father Malachi Martin - both of whose predictions on Art Bell, thusfar, have enjoyed a dismal success rate. ( Just so you don't think I'm a total disbeliever in things that are beyond our normal ken, I did buy one of Major Dames' video tapes on remote viewing. Unfortunately, after much practice and experimentation I concluded it/he was a crock. )

JTF: I enjoy Art Bell because he is on late and because he is SO open minded that his brains have fallen out long ago. It's one thing to be open minded and quite another to be credulous to the point of being a fool. Personally, I suspect he's smarter than he lets on and scripts all the stuff he presents so that those who already believe will be awed and/or frightened.

BTW, I believe that the correct names are Major Ed Dames and Father Malachi Martin - both of whose predictions on Art Bell have, thusfar, have enjoyed a dismal success rate. ( Just so you don't think I'm a total disbeliever in things that are beyond our normal ken, I did buy one of Major Dames' video tapes on remote viewing. Unfortunately, after much practice and experimentation I concluded it/he was a crock. )

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Let us leave it at this, at times there are things that strike each of us differently.

I just caught the last few minutes of the interview so if he talked about fwd sales, I missed it. Some people consider the fwd sales so far out a negative, so I suppose if one was an optimist, one could put a positive spin on that rumour, since if the POG increases dramatically in the next 2 years , then they will be able to realize more sales at higher prices.

Let's try again, maybe this is case sensitive

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/1219/

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, thar aint nothin Oklahoma bout the music, MR. Monroe is in a league of his own. More about the other two points of contention later.

February 11, 1998
U.S. abortion foes in Congress take aim at IMF

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - Anti-abortion forces in Congress Wednesday threatened to sabotage the Clinton administration's $18 billion package for the International Monetary Fund unless the president agreed to their demands.

Abortion foes in the House of Representatives have vowed to attach controversial abortion language to any money for the IMF and the United Nations.

The attachment effectively killed appropriations for the institutions last year, and could derail IMF and U.N. funding again because it would drive away many Democrats.

At a hearing Wednesday, anti-abortion Republican Rep. Sonny Callahan of Alabama told Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin that the administration would need support from abortion foes.

"I don't think we have the votes to pass the IMF monies unless we have the support of those people," said Callahan, who chairs the House Appropriations subcommittee on foreign operations. "Tell the president that he must be thinking about the seriousness of this issue."

Rubin urged lawmakers not to tie up the funding with unrelated abortion and family planning initiatives.

Smith and Callahan said it was up to Clinton to compromise if he wanted the IMF and U.N. funding.

"It is widely believed that the only way to build a coalition of enough Republicans and Democrats is to include the very vocal ( anti-abortion ) groups," said Callahan's chief of staff, Jo Bonner.

He added: "Anti-abortion forces in Congress are not willing to entertain an $18 billion request by the president to, in their mind, bail out the IMF unless and until the president is willing to reinstate ... the provisions."
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/ReutersNews/IMF-CONGRESS.html

Last night I said I would report back on what I found with regard to selling $1000 face value 90% junk silver ( bags ) . Here goes:

The winner - my local coin shop $4550

runners up -

FS Vollmer - $4450
Dillon Gage - $4450
Youngerman - $ 4000
Jefferson Financial - $ 4333
Blanchard - $4300
Monex - ???

Monex told me that they did not buy back silver unless I was already a customer, which I'm not. I was told though that if I purchased precious metals with 50% of the proceeds they would buy the silver for $4563. A salesman also told me that if I deposited my silver on account there, I could borrow up to 80% against its value and pay them interest of 11%. I think he was a little confused though ( or I was but I don't think so ) . I asked him why I would have to pay interest for the privledge of borrowing my own property, but he could not provide a satisfactory answer. Maybe he meant 180% of the value of the silver, I don't know and was in a hurry so I didn't pursue it.

February 11, 1998
U.S. abortion foes in Congress take aim at IMF

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - Anti-abortion forces in Congress Wednesday threatened to sabotage the Clinton administration's $18 billion package for the International Monetary Fund unless the president agreed to their demands.

Abortion foes in the House of Representatives have vowed to attach controversial abortion language to any money for the IMF and the United Nations.

The attachment effectively killed appropriations for the institutions last year, and could derail IMF and U.N. funding again because it would drive away many Democrats.

At a hearing Wednesday, anti-abortion Republican Rep. Sonny Callahan of Alabama told Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin that the administration would need support from abortion foes.

"I don't think we have the votes to pass the IMF monies unless we have the support of those people," said Callahan, who chairs the House Appropriations subcommittee on foreign operations. "Tell the president that he must be thinking about the seriousness of this issue."

Rubin urged lawmakers not to tie up the funding with unrelated abortion and family planning initiatives.

Smith and Callahan said it was up to Clinton to compromise if he wanted the IMF and U.N. funding.

"It is widely believed that the only way to build a coalition of enough Republicans and Democrats is to include the very vocal ( anti-abortion ) groups," said Callahan's chief of staff, Jo Bonner.

He added: "Anti-abortion forces in Congress are not willing to entertain an $18 billion request by the president to, in their mind, bail out the IMF unless and until the president is willing to reinstate ... the provisions."
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/ReutersNews/IMF-CONGRESS.html

G'day Avalon

Nothing much happening down under. Everything, including Au shares, down slightly. A little flurry of excitement as the Haggis' silver twins ( East Coast Minerals and Legend Mining ) trading again after a few days suspension for clarification of drill reports. No new info. You shoulda seen the opening prices!!! Up sharply and then after a few minutes settled back down to the old prices. Those who bought at the opening are feeling very 'stung' at the moment--as they coulda bought 50% or so cheaper by waiting a few minutes. Sure as hell beats the roulette wheel down here!!!

I think I know you from a previous life----hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm--April Gold up .40 @ 302.20

Numismatics tend to have large premiums over spot gold ( naturally ) and some prices can be mind boggling ( just look on the web, or inquire about 17th or 1st century coins at your local coin shop as I did last Saturday ) and that's fine normally since the valuations of antiques and numismatic coins tends to go up. However, I have a theory that, in the event of a massive conflagration of paper fiat money and general financial chaos, where you would want physical insurance, the rich people who buy numismatics, art, antiques etc. will find themselves short of money, and therefore the market in numismatics could be trashed. In which case, you would be best holding physical with minimal premium above spot gold ( bullion coins, or pre-1933 coins for you paranoid Americans ) . Of course it is also said that numismatics go up faster than bullion when the POG goes up. Newton's law of opinion ( for every opinion there is an equal and opposite opinion ) . Anyway I tend to avoid numismatics because I don't think I know enough about them yet. Any thoughts on that...

@SDRer__A ( Tue Feb 10 1998 18:12 )
More currency arriving from the past:
http://www.bosagate.demon.co.uk/coins3.htm
Quarter Stater of Tasciovanus
This Iron-age ( Celtic ) coin, minted in gold, was struck for Tasciovanus
around 25AD. Tasciovanus was the leader of the Trinovantian tribe prior
to the Roman conquest. He was the son of Addedomaros and the father of
Cunobelin, Shakespeare's Cymbeline.

Now for some crazy stuff... from a 1983 book on Nostradamus ( which I read for entertainment purposes only, you understand )

CVII,Q22
The Iraqis will march against the allies of Spain while people amuse
themselves, laugh, banquet and everyone sleeps; the Pope fleeing beside
the Rhne, the Vatican City will be occupied as well as Italy.

CVIII,Q16
In the place where God has built his Church [Rome] there will be so
great and sudden a revolution that no areas or lands will escape attack.
The revolution will reach Tuscany [Florence] after the Olympic Games.

Well, it didn't say Nagano.

Socialism breeds sheep---bein led ta slaughter~~~~Mr.Moonlight--come again please ( beautiful full moon is shining brightly on a calm ocean infront of Scaterie Island ) ...Kansas City,goin ta get my baby on time..
Hey hey hey---

what happened to the grains? ....realistic? ....c'mon
admit to being a peopleo.......

re-post your re-posts of my posts alluding to a
big down-draft coming in grains........

those options took off like scalded dogs today......
just wait........they've got long legs......as do the crude
calls.....getting hard to get fills on the crude options....
they are starting to squirm with no one backing down............

bbl with more realism........for realistic.....get real....

Dear Ziva,

First, thank you for advertising my posts. I'm
encouraged a lot and will continue to do the same
in the future, if you still here.

Second, after reading your posts, I came to the
conclusion that you are the best Internet agent
of Saddam Hussien, the King of Iraqies.

Therefore, I already contacted special law enforcement
team dealing with Iraqi penetration of the U.S. They
confirmed my concerns and are currently tracking
your messages in order to identify your location.

They also asked me to continue my negative posts
about you and your operation "Zivastation" which
you are managing with such grace, so I can draw more
of your posts on myself, acting like a bait, and
they could locate you as fast as possible.

As an honest shooter and taxpayer, I feel it is
important to let you know what is going on.

Take care, but get the hell outta' here, save yourself
and your suffering soul, go back to your clinic and get
a referal for visit to Dr.Kevorkian. He can help you...

I donot want to trade below three hundred and these fools who keep using their hard earned money to keep me down are in for a rude awakening. I have been sick for a long time and have just recently started feeling better and as each day passes I am becoming stronger! Most days in Australia they think they can jump on me right at market open and weaken me before Asia opens but what these fools have not yet realized is that Asia is now my friend, THEY LOVE ME! Then there are those idiots in New York who think that they can control me and they too are in for a rude awakening. You see I am just playing with them all! They abused me while I was weak and now I am going to get all of their marbles.
Rubin understands he tried to warn them today as he made reference to the importance of the Gold in the IMF. Warren also tried to send a signal to the World when he became friends with my little brother Silver. Its amazing that no one has noticed that many many of my family members are leaving Comox. Soon they will have trouble paying the rent and maybe when they witness the first default some of these fools and their money will understand! I AM SERVING NOTICE RIGHT NOW, I AM ABOUT TO LEAVE THE STARTING BLOCKS AND I HAVE NEVER FELT BETTER SO WATCH ME RUN!!!!!!!!!
YOUR FRIEND
GOLD

http://www.kitcomm.com/pub/discussion/Image205.gif
Dow/Gold chart.

JTF
I can't answer your question of yesterday as I don't know enough about the subject ( US MF's ) .
I had read something along the lines and put the spiel together to illustrate pyramiding.
I had also read that the feds were supplying liquidity to the funds as of late.
What concerns me most is the pyramiding power of paper.

The way that there are more MF's than stocks and many of these invest in stocks in a weighted manner.
A fund that started with $100m years ago might have had only 2% in MSFt because of MSFT's weighting within the index. ie.$2m
Today that fund might be worth $1,000m and have a weighting in MSFT of say 15% ( if this is MSFT's weighting ) which would lead it to have $150m invested in this stock.

I don't know the exact figures but one can see the tremendous power behind compounding and weighting that has gone on.

The value of the paper has been expanded at a parabolic rate.
When the markets come off this compounded value will work in reverse to create a monetary debacle the likes of which mankind has not seen before.

There will be great disillusionment as many people lose all.
The real value of all stocks is far less than the sum of all the pieces of paper that many hold.

I'll sell ya all the gold stocks in the COMEX
warehouse. Trillions of dollars floating around
and their are no takers. You can't give it away.
We live in a world turned upside down. I'm
surprised one of you bugs can't come up
with a billion.2.

February 11, 1998
U.S. businesses launch campaign to win IMF funding

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - America's largest business federation said Wednesday it would launch a grass-roots campaign urging members of Congress to approve huge payments to the International Monetary Fund and the United Nations.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce said it would ask member chambers, particularly in the states of California, Washington, Michigan and Massachusetts, to lobby lawmakers to vote in favor of $18 billion for the IMF and to pay arrears to the U.N.

"We'll make the investments we have to make to get this done. We'll use whatever thoughtful means it takes," said chamber president Thomas Donohue.

"This is not about bailing out institutions in foreign lands. This is about protecting markets in the United States and protecting markets around the world that we export to."

Donohue announced the grass-roots effort at a news conference launching the largest public campaign to date by U.S. supporters of the IMF and United Nations.

Organizers said the campaign was needed to persuade a skeptical Congress and public to back the IMF and its multibillion-dollar bailouts for Indonesia, South Korea and Thailand.

The campaign -- by a coalition of business leaders, policymakers and ex-presidents -- placed full-page advertisements in the New York Times and the Washington Post on Wednesday urging Congress to approve the IMF and U.N. money, warning that the crisis in Asia could cut U.S. growth.

"The success of the American economy depends upon a harmonious world economy, and we can't get that by retreating into isolationism," former Federal Reserve Board Chairman Paul Volcker told reporters.

Support from the Chamber of Commerce, the National Association of Manufacturers, the Business Roundtable and other business groups was certain to give a boost to the Clinton administration's drive for IMF and U.N. funding.

Several coalition members met with President Clinton in the White House to discuss ways to sway Congress.

"The president wanted to thank them for their support of his approach on the IMF and to underline the importance of getting this done soon so that the IMF has the resources it needs," said a White House official who asked not to be named.
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/ReutersNews/IMF-CONGRESS-CAMPAIGN.html

We, the peopleo, were wondering when we would hear the grain report today....beans, beans in the short...the more you short the more you put. Congrats.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980209/malaysia_s_1.html

Yes indeed. You have found a base, and it
seems to be a strong one.

Your Sister is for sure off and running, and
will no doubt offer a hand to raise you up on
her journey.

Those who would gamble against you in this
race are indeed destined to eat their shorts.

Most users of this site probably have fairly complex taxes, especially with the new tax laws for 1997. You can download tax forms from the IRS site at:
http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/forms_pubs/forms.html
There is a problem, though. The download, like most things at the Government, does not work correctly. When you select a form or publication to download in PDF format ( you must have Adobe Acrobat Reader ) , it will take you to a blank screen. The name of the page will start with http://ftp. To get the form, change the ftp to www in your URL window. Then your form will download.
I called the tax form request line, and no one seemed to know of this problem. Fools!

http://www.buildfreedom.com - earlier you asked. Nothing complete, one voice of many. Read, learn, think, dismember tryanny. One grain at a time through peaceful justice and LIBERTY.

Be it known to all courts, governments, and other parties, that I,

_______________________________________________________________________,
am a natural, freeborn Sovereign, without subjects. I am neither subject to any entity anywhere, nor is any entity subject to me. I neither dominate anyone, nor am I dominated.

My authority for this statement is the same as it is for all free Sovereigns everywhere: the age-old, timeless, and universal respect for the intrinsic rights, property, freedoms, and responsibilities of the Sovereign Individual.

I am not a "person" when such term is defined in statutes of the United States or statutes of the several states when such definition includes artificial entities. I refuse to be treated as a federally or state created entity which is only capable of exercising certain rights, privileges, or immunities as specifically granted by federal or state governments.

I voluntarily choose to comply with the man-made laws which serve to bring harmony to society, but no such laws, nor their enforcers, have any authority over me. I am not in any jurisdiction, for I am not of subject status.

Consistent with the eternal tradition of natural common law, unless I have harmed or violated someone or their property, I have committed no crime; and am therefore not subject to any penalty.

I act in accordance with the following U.S. Supreme Court case:

"The individual may stand upon his constitutional rights as a citizen. He is entitled to carry on his private business in his own way. His power to contract is unlimited. He owes no such duty [to submit his books and papers for an examination] to the State, since he receives nothing therefrom, beyond the protection of his life and property. His rights are such as existed by the law of the land [Common Law] long antecedent to the organization of the State, and can only be taken from him by due process of law, and in accordance with the Constitution. Among his rights are a refusal to incriminate himself, and the immunity of himself and his property from arrest or seizure except under a warrant of the law. He owes nothing to the public so long as he does not trespass upon their rights." Hale v. Henkel, 201 U.S. 43 at 47 ( 1905 ) .

Thus, be it known to all, that I reserve my natural common law right not to be compelled to perform under any contract that I did not enter into knowingly, voluntarily, and intentionally. And furthermore, I do not accept the liability associated with the compelled and pretended "benefit" of any hidden or unrevealed contract or commercial agreement.

As such, the hidden or unrevealed contracts that supposedly create obligations to perform, for persons of subject status, are inapplicable to me, and are null and void. If I have participated in any of the supposed "benefits" associated with these hidden contracts, I have done so under duress, for lack of any other practical alternative. I may have received such "benefits" but I have not accepted them in a manner that binds me to anything.

Any such participation does not constitute "acceptance" in contract law, because of the absence of full disclosure of any valid "offer," and voluntary consent without misrepresentation or coercion, under contract law. Without a valid voluntary offer and acceptance, knowingly entered into by both parties, there is no "meeting of the minds," and therefore no valid contract. Any supposed "contract" is therefore void, ab initio.

From my age of consent to the date affixed below I have never signed a contract knowingly, willingly, intelligently, and voluntarily whereby I have waived any of my natural common law rights, and, as such, Take Notice that I revoke, cancel, and make void ab initio my signature on any and all contracts, agreements, forms, or any instrument which may be construed in any way to give any agency or department of any federal or state government authority, venue, or jurisdiction over me.

This position is in accordance with the U.S. Supreme Court decision of Brady v. U.S., 379 U.S. 742 at 748 ( 1970 ) :

"Waivers of Constitutional Rights not only must be voluntary, they must be knowingly intelligent acts, done with sufficient awareness of the relevant circumstances and consequences."

Typical examples of such compelled and pretended "benefits" are:

1.The use of Federal Reserve Notes to discharge my debts. I have used these only because in America, there is no other widely recognized currency. 2.The use of a bank account, with my signature on the bank signature card. If there is any hidden contract behind the bank signature card, my signature thereon gives no validity to it. The signature is only for verification of identity. I can be obligated to fulfill no hidden or unrevealed contract whatsoever, due to the absence of full disclosure and voluntary consent.

Likewise, my use of the bank account thereof is due to the absence of a bank not associated with the Federal Reserve system. In general, people have been prevented from issuing their own currencies, and such prevention is in violation of the United States Constitution. Were there an alternative, I would be happy to use it. To not use any bank at all is impossible or very difficult, as everyone knows, in today's marketplace.

3.The use of a Social Security number. The number normally assigned to persons of subject status, I use exceptionally, under duress, only because of the extreme inconvenience of operating without one in today's marketplace, where it is requested by banks, employers, lenders, and many other government agencies and businesses. My reason for using it is not because I wish to participate in the Social Security system, as I don't wish to participate. Let it be known that I use the Social Security number assigned to me for information only. 4.The use of a driver's license. As a free Sovereign, there is no legal requirement for me to have such a license for travelling in my car. Technically, the unrevealed legal purpose of driver's licenses is commercial in nature. Since I don't carry passengers for hire, there is no law requiring me to have a license to travel for my own pleasure and that of my family and friends. However, because of the lack of education of police officers on this matter, should I be stopped for any reason and found to be without a license, it is likely I would be ticketed and fined or obligated to appear in court. Therefore, under duress, I carry a license to avoid extreme inconvenience. 5.State plates on my car. Similarly, even though technically, my car does not fit the legal definition of a "motor vehicle," which is used for commercial purposes, nevertheless, I have registered it with the state and carry the state plates on it, because to have any other plates or no plates at all, causes me to run the risk of police officer harassment and extreme inconvenience. 6.Past tax returns filed. Any tax returns I may have filed in the past, were filed due to the dishonest atmosphere of fear and intimidation created by the Internal Revenue Service ( IRS ) and the local assessors' offices; not because there is any law requiring me to do so. Once I discovered that the IRS and other tax agencies have been misinforming the public, I have felt it is my responsible duty to society to terminate my voluntary participation. Because such returns were filed under Threat, Duress, and Coercion ( TDC ) , and no two-way contract was ever signed with full disclosure, there is nothing in any past filing of returns or payments that created any valid contract. Therefore, no legal obligation on my part was ever created. 7.Birth Certificate. The fact that a birth certificate was granted to me by a local hospital or government agency when I entered this world, is irrelevant to my Sovereignty. No status, high or low, can be assigned to another person through a piece of paper, without the recipient's full knowledge and consent. Therefore, such a piece of paper provides date and place information only. It indicates nothing about jurisdiction, nothing about property ownership, nothing about rights, and nothing about subject status. The only documents that can have any legal meaning, as it concerns my status in society, are those which I have signed as an adult, with full knowledge and consent, free from misrepresentation or coercion of any kind. 8.Marriage license. The acquisition of a marriage license is now being revealed as being necessary only for slaves. The act of a Sovereign such as myself obtaining such a license, through social custom and ignorance of law, has no legal effect in changing my status. This is because any such change in status, if any may be supposed to occur, could happen only through a hidden and unrevealed contract or statute. Since no hidden, unrevealed, and undisclosed information, if it exists, can be lawfully held to be binding, it is null and void. 9.Children in public school. The attendance of my children in government-supported "public" schools or government-controlled "private" schools does not create any legal tax obligation for me, nor any other legal obligation, because I never signed a contract agreeing to such obligation for the supposed "privilege" of public school attendance.

If any of my children have attended government supported "public" or controlled "private" schools, such was done under duress and not out of free will. Be it known that I regard "compulsory state education" as a violation of the Thirteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which states in relevant part:

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

10.Declaration of Citizenship. Any document I may have ever signed, in which I answered "yes" to the question, "Are you a U.S. citizen?" - cannot be used to compromise my status as a Sovereign, nor obligate me to perform in any manner. This is because without full written disclosure of the definition and consequences of such supposed "citizenship," provided in a document bearing my signature given freely without misrepresentation or coercion, there can be no legally binding contract.

I am not a "United States" citizen subject to its jurisdiction. The United States is an entity created by the U.S. Constitution with jurisdiction as described on the following pages of this Affidavit. I am not a "resident of," an "inhabitant of," a "franchise of," a "subject of," a "ward of," the "property of," the "chattel of," or "subject to the jurisdiction of" any corporate federal government, corporate state government, corporate county government, corporate city government, or corporate municipal body politic created under the authority of the U.S. Constitution. I am not subject to any legislation, department, or agency created by such authorities, nor to the jurisdiction of any employees, officers, or agents deriving their authority therefrom. Further, I am not a subject of the Administrative and Legislative Article IV Courts of the several states, or Article I Courts of the United States, or bound by precedents of such courts, deriving their jurisdiction from said authorities. Take Notice that I hereby revoke, cancel, and make void ab initio any such instrument or any presumed election made by any of the several states or the United States government or any agency or department thereof, that I am or ever have voluntary elected to be treated as a United States citizen subject to its jurisdiction or a resident of any territory, possession, instrumentality or enclave under the sovereignty or exclusive jurisdiction of any of the several states or of the United States as defined in the U.S. Constitution in Article I, Section 8, Clause 17 and Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2.

11.Past voter registration. Similarly, since no obligation to perform in any manner was ever revealed in print, as part of the requirements for the supposed "privilege" to vote for government officials, any such registration on my part cannot be legal evidence of any obligation to perform. Likewise, I have granted NO jurisdiction over me, to any political office. It is my inherent right to vote on elections or issues that I feel affect all of society; NOT because I need anyone to rule over me. On the contrary - I have used the voting process only to instruct my public servants what a Citizen and Sovereign would like done. 12.Use of the 2-letter state code and zip code. My use of the 2-letter state code and zip code in my "address," which is secretly codified to indicate United States "federal zone" jurisdiction, has no effect whatsoever on my Sovereign status. Simply by receiving or sending "mail" through a quasi-federal messenger service, the postal service, at a location indicated with a 2-letter state code and zip code, cannot place me under federal jurisdiction or obligation. Such a presumption would be ludicrous.

I use these codes only for the purposes of information and making it more efficacious for the U.S. Postal Service to deliver my mail.

13.Use of semantics. There are some immature people with mental imbalances, such as the craving to dominate other people, who masquerade as "government." Just because they alter definitions of words in the law books to their supposed advantage, doesn't mean I accept those definitions. The fact that they define the words "person," "address," "mail," "resident," "motor vehicle," "driving," "passenger," "employee," "income," and many others, in ways different from the common usage, so as to be associated with a subject or slave status, means nothing in real life.

Because the courts have become entangled in the game of semantics, be it known to all courts and all parties, that if I have ever signed any document or spoken any words on record, using words defined by twists in the law books different from the common usage, there can be no effect whatsoever on my Sovereign status in society thereby, nor can there be created any obligation to perform in any manner, by the mere use of such words. Where the meaning in the common dictionary differs from the meaning in the law dictionary, it is the meaning in common dictionary that prevails, because it is more trustworthy.

Such compelled and supposed "benefits" include, but are not limited to, the aforementioned typical examples. My use of such alleged "benefits" is under duress only, and is with full reservation of all my common law rights. I have waived none of my intrinsic rights and freedoms by my use thereof. Furthermore, my use of such compelled "benefits" may be temporary, until better alternatives become available, practical, and widely recognized.

Pro Farmer.com gave an excelent call and breakdown of
the report 1 hour before the open this morning.I got a feeling
farmers are not going to sell until they get more progress
reports from S.A. crop,major flooding,we'll see.

Dear America:

Dammit, I just can't wait until tens of thousands of American boys are dead and dying on the sands of Iraq...squirming and squealing in pain, their lungs filled with deadly nerve gas. I look forward to it.

And to think you're gonna do all this for me!! Yup, I really am the greatest thing in the world. Americans kiss my ass...I'm holier than Jesus Christ! KISS MY ASS, YOU STUPID BRAINWASHED AMERICAN MORONS!! DIE FOR ME!!!

Hey, I've already destroyed your oceans. You see all those miserable seals and dolphins lying dead on your beaches. That's my work, and I'm damn proud of it! Let them gag on my grimy, greasy essence. Screw 'em...they're just f__king animals anyway.

Hey, I've alreadly poisoned your air too. Cancers...tumors...I give them to you pissant Americans in spades...and I love it. You spend all your money on drugs and doctors... and still you worship my divine ass!!!

Hey, I love the way I've duped you dummies into thinking that when you fight for me, you're fighting for freedom and all that other rot. You're my slaves and you don't even know it. You may think you're fighting for freedom...but you're fighting for the eternal right to stick me in your
cars...and it'll be a cold day in hell before I ever let that damn solar power or bastard electricity take me outta the picture!!!

Hey, you're all a bunch of whores to the Arab cartel...thank me for that!! I own your ass, you American dimwits. You also should get down on your knees and pay homage to my buddies...you know, Chevron, Exxon, Mobil, Shell, Texaco. I get a real kick outta the way they rake you over the coals whenever the hell they feel like it! You deserve it 'coz you're all too stupid to rise up and protest!!

Thanks again,

Your buddy,

OIL

Thanks for your 17:08 posting...after such a long day & the
4th cocktail...it all made perfect cents to us!!!
Where's our ref sec on 900 or are u finding H&H changing
3X's a day....can't believe Roth. only paid 30M for H&H
ref div. Must have something to do with pol lib ----
got to be makin 2ml per wk now on input chgs.....

take care.......

COMEX and NYMEX precious metals futures ended mixed Wednesday, with gold and silver lower, but platinum group metals closedmostly higher. "The uptrend in silver is still intact, but there's COMEX March option expiry on Friday so some volatility is possible," said Scott Meyers, an analyst with COMEX clearing broker PioneerFutures in New York. "I could see a 20-30 cent correction in silver, but find it hard to believe in silver coming down a $1.00 unless we get news of Warren Buffett selling," he said. Silver's forward price curve remained backwardated but silver rates eased further to around 10 pct for one month from 20 pct Tuesday and a high of 80 pct last week, suggesting the tightness in the market was abating, traders said. COMEX silver was being moved to London to enable deliveries of silver to be made to U.S. billionaire Warren Buffett who announced last week he had contracted to buy 129.7 million ounces of silver,traders said. But U.S. retail brokers have reported a rise in silver sales by investors, in the wake of a 60 pct rise in prices in the last six months, while Indian silver demand was also slowing due to the higher prices, analysts said.

1945: The American tycoons were fat and sassy. President Truman in November 1945, called a Labor-Management Conference. "the sweetheart role" of class cooperation in which labor would surrender its independent position. Labor would take the consequences, for the whole punitive power of government was soon to belong to American monopoly.

The Special Conference Committee "the secret general staff of American Big Business", composed of representatives of twelve ( 12 ) billion dollar corporations, was termed "the secret general staff" of America's ruling oligarchy by Senator Elbert Thomas of Utah during the La Follette Civil Liberties Committee Investigation.

The same financiers and industrialists who control the National Association of Manufacturers ( NAM ) also control the United States Chamber of Commerce which ( NAM ) founded.The membership of the two organizations is in many instances identical.

In 1947 the Chamber of Commerce published "Communists in the Government", The Facts and a Program, blueprint for the charge that the New Deal was only a Communist conspiracy, destined to become the BIBLE and INSPIRATION of Senator McCarthy. President Truman, apparently convinced by the Chamber of Commerce brochure on Communists penetration of government, was prepared to order loyalty tests for 2,000,000 government employees. These public servants, were not to know their accuser or the specific charges against them.

The Chamber of Commerce Committee on Socialism and Communism members:
Francis P. Matthews, Truman's Secretary of the Navy and chairman of the Securities Acceptance Corporation
Thomas C. Boushall, president of the Bank of Virginia
Richard K. Lane, president of the Public Service Company of Oklahoma
Fred L. Conklin, president of the Provident Life Insurance Company
Powell C. Groner, president of the Kansas City Public Service Company
Frank W. Jenks, vice president of the International Harvester Company
Chase M. Smith, general counsel of the Lumbermen's Mutual Casualty Company.

Sooooo"We The People" **GRASS ROOTS EH!** United States Chamber of Commerce.

Take Care.

Since Inco sold out their TVX position and TVX droped some of their best people; TVX has been an accident waiting to happen. Ask Golden Cheesehead where you may find some of their old employees.

Wooo, this is getting pretty deep. You guys are on it tonight. Got my attention!

Wow I thought I might have been a lone voice crying in the wildernes with some of my anti US critiques, let us keep it to economics.
Steady on mate. Those are fine lads and we cannot wish suffering and death to any humane kind. Through out history many a fine young men, women, both elderly and children have suffered at the hands of misguided leaders. You and I are witnessing the power of the greed/might/right emotions and how it can control the leaders of great nations.

cmh--------

incredible!................lazarus long.......and dora.....

one of the greatest series of books ever......very few have
had the pleasure to read the jewel of jewels.......robert heinlein

some-one posted earlier of seeing kissinger on the tv......

read the book.........'kissinger on the couch'.....by chester ward

Lotta red ink in Asia t'nite....eh...Canadian dollar continues ta slide back towards new lows...arrrrrgggghhhh

If lack of volume gives a clue about the future direction of gold shares--then gold shares are gonna be in trouble soon down here. It is so damned dull tryin' to trade today that I'm falling asleep at the computer. This sittin' on the fence is hurting my butt--wish gold would head off one way or 'tother.

Fortunately for me I've got Ziva's double posts to give me something to do. NOT read--but practice my scrolling technique!!

Beware of the emotional "too far out of the money options" allaboard trains that all seem to miss their destinations. Check the archives.

Grains have grinded higher for several weeks now and...since January 12th, Soybeans have picked up more than 20 cents in prices ( per bushel ) , Corn increased more than 10 cents and Wheat got up by more than 10 cents also, all compared to today's closes. The train took off northbound on January 13th!

Be careful with those who have such a lack of confidence in their trading decisions that they need others to be aboard on the same train, just to feel better.

Those who bought Grain puts around January 12th are still in an uncomfortable position today.

Date: Tue Jan 13 1998 08:58
Realistic ( Grains ) ID#410194:
Some SEASONAL LOWS at hand in the entire grain complex this week?

OR

Date: Mon Jan 12 1998 14:05
cherokee__A ( @- - - - last- call- - - - - - - - - - ) ID#344308:

the usda is going to release their weekly export numbers
for the grains tomorrow......they are predicting sharp
drops in beans......and less severe drops in corn and
wheat.......still very bearish for the grains...........
last day to get these cheap put options..........

the grain train is heading south.........ALLABOARD! last call......

beans going to 550 imnsho........5750 may soybean puts are $75.00!!!!
230 may corn puts.....cheap.....

Kissinger is a mindless waterboy whore. I just lit a candle and prayed that a Mastiff eats his liver tonight. I can only dream and hope. It is one helluva candle. Who knows!?

In a lead up to my question , last night I watch a 1956 episode of the Honnymooners ( Jacky Gleeson ) I hope you can remember the show ??? anyway he thought he was to become RACOON of the year, and if he did he could go on to be the Grand Master etc, they would then replace his GOLD braid with PLATINUM why is this.
Gold is more volatile and manipulated than Platinum and if it is superior than gold in properties why does Gold command the front seat. Platinum is such a quiet achiever? has this metal ever brought down a country or started a war. I was just thinking !!!

Asian markets getting nicely slammed tonight.
Australia All Ordinaries 9:40PM 2675.2 -2.8 -0.10%
China Shanghai Composite 9:40PM 1253.381 +3.143 +0.25%
Hong Kong Hang Seng 9:39PM 10648.07 -145.34 -1.35%
India BSE 30 7:17AM 3292.91 -24.79 -0.75%
Indonesia Jakarta Composite 9:40PM 477.782 -9.828 -2.02%
Japan Nikkei 225 9:02PM 17155.94 -49.15 -0.29%
Malaysia KLSE Composite 9:39PM 716.44 -23.43 -3.17%
Philippines PSE Composite 9:40PM 2186.99 -31.33 -1.41%
Singapore Straits Times 9:36PM 1593.14 -28.11 -1.73%
South Korea Seoul Composite 9:31PM 507.14 -13.00 -2.50%
Anybody have anything on the radar screen about what's going on over there?

U drikin tonite????

in Asia will spike Gold in next 4 weeks

Clowns.

an oldie...


Two adieu voiced in vow?
Void another useless crowd.
Consumated/crated carny porn;
Sparks a'flue; ears of corn.


Fiends, roamin's, lend me your beer ( s )

'Round here with the rounders f'while.

LGB ( @ Myrmidon....does God have a sense of humor? ) : ..... A tip of the fedora to ya.

Yes we are all drinkin tonight. It is still bright and sunny here in OZ, but I have drawn the curtains and it is now dark enought to join you
"Cheers"!! Ah nice drop.

"And GOD said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness"

"So GOD created man in his OWN image, in the image of GOD he created him"

Next time I run a marathon, I guess I will use a golf cart.

Things, they are a changein.

Go Jack! You are Back!

HighRise
PS: part of the new paradigm?

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980211/china_deva_1.html

U been talkin to ZIVA lately???? Junior-Get it on!!!! Ted-Have another
drik!!!!

Indonesia down almost -6%; Malaisia -3.5%; South Korea -2.5%

Thank you very much for your earlier posts. For those who post here and those of us who observe and learn from you, this site at Kitco is a very important part of our lives. It gives all of us the opportunity to discuss and read the events of the world occurring around us, allowing us to agree and disagree. Free Will is indeed a wonderful gift!

With all of the evil we encounter in the world around us, as evidenced by the posts here each day, and as we try to side-step it in our lives, it is wonderful to have access to the group here at Kitco.

Thank you for the information and wisdom you and the others share with us each day.

Hopefully the site at Kitco can remain like the porch setting of years gone by! A group of good neighbors truly concerned about helping each other.

Respectfully yours,

The Hermit

"ZIVA"- You said in your warning post of yesterday that you are
in touch with many, here. Please include me, I have several personal
questions. Reify@sitcom.co.il.

"ZIVA"- You said in your warning post of yesterday that you are
in touch with many, here. Please include me, I have several personal
questions. Reify@sitcom.co.il.

Man screwed up! He ate the apple, he listened to Satan and has had to deal with the mistake since Eden. Has not been the image of God since the incident.

Ironically, some think, the fertile crescent - Iraq, was the location of the Garden of Eden.

Who knows? CNN and CNBC were not their to report on the sin.

HighRise

Several days ago, Bart asked for input from any so inclined, on explanations for the different prices given for Gold. London closing/futures/etc.etc. If there was a reply I guess I missed it--can anyone give me a repeat or date & time of the original reply????

thanks---grampa ( Evening Strad-Master )

Several days ago, Bart asked for input from any so inclined, on explanations for the different prices given for Gold. London closing/futures/etc.etc. If there was a reply I guess I missed it--can anyone give me a repeat or date & time of the original reply????

thanks---grampa ( Evening Strad-Master )

Several days ago, Bart asked for input from any so inclined, on explanations for the different prices given for Gold. London closing/futures/etc.etc. If there was a reply I guess I missed it--can anyone give me a repeat or date & time of the original reply????

thanks---grampa ( Evening Strad-Master )

More like pot-bellied stove, hat up, swappin' spit and
a whale of a fishin' story.

Ted-CBC ( Hot ) news. CANADA & the usa not accepting S.H."s offer.
That Chretien has a mind of his own eh???? Call the in Cape Breton
Highlanders!!!!!!

Robbin Rubin is a lying dog, the coward elect, his boss is holding the dog so Camdesuss can have one final fling.

And people just don't get it.

And the excrement twins Volker and Kissinger are out talking about poor people giving away more money they don't have, while they wear their fine suits and get fat on the payroll of pigs in well made shoes.

Hate to be a spoilsport, but if the U.S. stock market really
cared what was going on in Asia, we would be renamed
Peutzco by now. Does this mean the DJIA is immune to
the Asia markets? Absolutely not. But what good does
this reverse "grass is always greener on the other side
of the fence" do for you bugs? Do you really enjoy seeing
people devastated by a stock market plunge?

Hey Bart - thanks for the link. On my screen, the gold
section was all scrunched together, but I don't need
Merrill Lynch or whoever to tell me gold will suck over the
next two weeks. And what kind of analysis is it to say
that within the next six months silver could trade anywhere
from $5.00 to $8.50? These people went to college to
tell me that? I could issue that as a standing prediction
for the next six years.

Gold is already much cheaper than Hash

What's your bother? The heavily-out-of-the-money put/call game is always full of many losing positions compared to winners. Why are you coming on so hard all of a sudden? Are you pissed off about something?

Cherokee has repeated explained his results of a few winners in a year more than paying for the other, losing positions. And advocating positions at 10 - 20 bucks a pop really doesn't lose anybody's shirts.

It's fun to watch the markets. You watch alot closer and learn alot more when you have a few dollars riding on it! That's how I got started back in '84, playing futures markets, with single silver contracts rather than the more expensive precious metals, and I advocate that method ( taking small positions and following them closely over time ) to anyone.

The analyst who trained me said my losses in the first two years could be counted as tuition. Didn't lose any year yet.

Totally agree. That's exactly how it is.
It's all about big oil.

Been doing a little remote viewing of my own here. I have a DIRE WARNING for the posters here from OZ and NZ. Although it seems very bright now, I viewed a great darkness that will soon cover your entire continent! You have very little time to prepare, probably less than 12 hours. Don't worry though, the darkness will soon pass and it will then be Friday morning. Good luck, mates!

the meaning of this statement is easy to figure

Give it a miss this avvo lad. After a few JW black even Ziva's post will seem brighter.
Ziva: Dr. ZIVARGO order you a twice daily tonic: 1 litre Stolychnia Vodka, 4 valium and 3 prozac. This tonic will brighten your post and hopefully shorten them. DAH Votka is good! Oh yes continue hormone replacemnt therapy Saddam upps sorry Ziva. Russian doctor make mistake and forget your name agian.

"And the Lord GOD said, Behold, the man has become as one of US,
to know GOOD and EVIL: and now ,lest he put forth his hand , and take
also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever..........

means is easy to figure

means is easy to figure

means is easy to figure

means is easy to figure

"And the Lord GOD said, Behold, the man has become as one of US,
to know GOOD and EVIL: and now ,lest he put forth his hand , and take
also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever..........

modern Front Porch.

jman: thanks for ProFarmer.com. All: outstanding DOW analysis there. Says this DOW wave is being propelled by .... you guessed it, the little guys.

HighRise: I like air conditioning "better" than "better" times.

Here Here. Yes, I have kept your post. Very informative, great information/material and a well defined position on rights/freedom.

Likely scare the hell out of most citizens. - Rights/Freedom is impossible to comprehend for most, yes, they like control. It is a GOD thing I expect, just a guess.

This quote below, is a direct reference, to the position of the First Nations People. We both know the tragic results of such exercise of Rights/Freedom that have been demanded by First Nations People. Yes, many have been killed. Yes, the fight continues. Yes, many more will die. Yet, that is the price of Rights/Freedom. Yes, they have/are/will continue to push for such. No, Religion/Government/Courts/Corporations have not recognized Rights/Freedom of freeborn sovereign people, they were obtained by support of the First Nations People, with the help of the true "We The People"

A Warrior is a person that will fight. Such person could be a First Nations or European. We are but few, we make a positive difference. ......................................................................

*****Be it known to all courts, governments, and other parties, that I,
am a natural, freeborn Sovereign, without subjects. I am neither subject to any entity anywhere, nor is any entity subject to me. I neither dominate anyone, nor am I dominated.*****

..................................................................

The Jews want their Gold back - Well, the First Nations People, also want their Gold and Silver back. Although, the true value of life, is Mother Earth, and freedom.

Thanks for taking the time to post the material, most appreciated. Take care.

G'day Auric. Didn't know your Prez had his own coin. Guess you call it the "britchless". Doin' better than Ted's Loonies anyway. Am looking forward to that great darkness about to descend. That't B.D. time down under ( beer drinkin' time ) . You can set yer watch by it! BBML.

Re those replies to Bart. I think he was looking for submissions of essays to him that he might offer to us at a later date. Perhaps he will be starting a FAQ ( Frequently Asked Questions ) file for Kitco.

here's one y'all might get a kick out of. no joke. this is right out of this week's Newsweek. jane bryant quinn says "in praise of deflation. prices can fall without signalling a depression. so relax and go shopping. if you're looking for something to worry about, scratch deflation as a candidate....the federal reserve could just print more money, ending the price slide in its tracks."

excuse me while i deposit the rest of my net worth into whichever superstar mutual fund is in first place this year. relax folks! sell your gold! nothing but good times from here on in!!!!!!!! just ask jane!!! count on at least three more years of 20-30% stock market returns. after that we'll probably have to settle for a paltry 15% return. but at least there's no risk. the stock market always goes up.

I'm sorry to hear that you wish the death of the sons and daughters of the American people.
Unfortunately, throughout history the youths of every generation seldom if every know the true reasons why they are fighting and dying. They fight and die for what they believe is right and just. It is, however, rarely the case. They never realize that is over greedy, power, possessions, and world dominance. They think they are fighting for freedom, justice, and the rights of their fellow man. You wish the death of innocent youths who would defend your rights, just as they feel they are defending others. It's only until it's too late that they realize why they are really dying on battlefields. I'm sure they will be happy to know that their deaths have given you some measure of happiness. I hate the loss of any life, friend or foe given up in war, but I have never hated the warrior or his country. Only the governments, the politicians and the ones who gain much and lose little. Your post saddens me greatly.

Sharefin: Your Dow/gold ratio chart looks as though it would support a downtrending channel. With present levels near the upper portion of the channel. Will look at similar chart on my system tomorrow and scope it out further.

Could someone please update me on who has left kitco in a rage,
who has been outed, and who Bart has had to call on the carpet?

merci

Wnat to make money in PM's???

Sell your gold and buy silver!! It will skyrocket still this week, or early next week at the latest.

Maybe El Nino is getting to some of us, but the stock market looked suspiciously like California's blue skies today, sweet but temporary. Perhaps future chapters in WJC's woes will generate a spring storm:
http://www.chron.com/cgi-bin/auth/story.mpl/content/chronicle/editorial/98/02/11/phillips.0-0.html

Buy silver. Hmm.... consensus is at 84.
?????????????????????????????

Where did I go wrong?...oh yeah,go gold

Does it bother people that the government manipulates the price of gold, but it doesn't bother people that the government manipulates the Federal Reserve Note ?
How come nobody tells us that when we sign up for Social Security we are making a declaration that we will end our lives on welfare ? Assuming a normal life-span, of course. People on welfare, actually or prospectively, are just like taxpayers: they have no rights. A few privileges and immunities, maybe, but no rights.

Caper:psssst-Know anyone who wants ta buy a 'Wilderness Systems' seakayak on the cheap ( 2,000 U.S. ) for 1,300 Canadian...To much of a hassle to transport...eh---to make this gold-relaTED,the proceeds will go to GOLD bars....

To all
Ah see Bernatz le faux dare to return weez questions??
Tell zees man who cannot chump nozzeeng, Ignore zee
seely refeRANCE to dow 8300. Ma beloved son who zey
try to burn at zee stake in toulouse ( for practicing
Wizaardry weezout a leeSANSE ) say zat zee dow she will
see 9100. ... an he ess nevair wrrong by gar.

politically speaking, will be a good time for the stock market to have a "good, healthy correction" or an "its their fault this happened, real honest to God CRASH" ? I can't think of any good time. If there were a good time, it would already have happened.
Bernatz's boys have a tiger by the tail and can't let go. Install more printing presses. We gonna make mo money.

Mainlining heroin~~~~~~~~~~~April gold up .70 @ somethin or other

More prognostications

is a "civil right" ? TahDah ! It's a privilege, misnomered to disinform the ignorant sheeple.
What does a "property owner" and a "taxpayer" have in common ? Neither of them have any rights, merely privileges and immunities. What Congress giveth, Congress can taketh away.

Why do we yell about the Dow at 8300? It's the old grasshopper and the ant story all over again. Grasshopper's having a good old time at the gambling casinos, which are what the Stock markets become when they've uncoupled from book values as ours have. Actual savings are at a very low level. If you've read the last few days of posts, you'd see more statistics on both those points than you'd ever want to read.

Several of these regular writers are just yelling "Winter is coming" "Winter is coming". It always does. A prudent man considers whichever worst case scenarios seem plausable and plans accordingly - and enjoys the run, with money he can afford to lose, as long as it goes on! This site is sort of a "worst case scenario plausability center". I worry much less. Got tolerant1 and farfel to do it for me. ( : ) )

Why do you read this site?

Asian markets are sharply down, did people really think this crisis was over?

ocean~~~~~~~~Spectacular,but where's mr.Full Moon Puetz?

To all
Maybe its my imagination, but religious fervour seems
to have fallen upon this site.
If this continues, it may awaken the Islamic spirit
of Ibn Al-Crusti - prince of the Rub al Khali,
ensh'allah
Al'lah O akbar

Does anyone have any comments on what we will see both in the short term and long term for gold mining shares? Considering gold's depressed values and some mining companies either cutting back production to even closing down, and the possibility of mergers. Will gold ever break out to the upside considering the current and future supply and demand? I know these questions can not be answered without a crystal ball, I am only looking for other peoples viewpoints regarding these matters. Go Gold!!

farfel, after reading your post, it jogged a memory. Blair received lots of money for re-election from British Petroleum. BP has enjoyed a healthy profitable year in part resulting from the sanctions on Iraq, and cetainly has no wish to see them lifted. Blair has made the chairman of BP, Sir David Simon, Minister of Competitiveness ( indeed! ) . So perhaps Blair coming to Clinton's help on Iraq is actually the reverse, with the Brits once again asking for help from their former colonies. This would not play well with the sheep-voters so making the US the heavy, with Blair "helping" Clinton, makes better political sense. You have to sell the war to the American people.

ps kudos to Ted Butler, bought a bunch of Lexington Silver stslx about four months ago. Many thanks to the kitco silver denizens. I'm gonna hold on to it for a while.

Do not be disheartened. In time all things will be different. I pity the next terrorcrat that attempts to talk down to me.

Liberty will be triumph. The world sees that a coward sends others into battle. Through this spineless act they shall understand that he has no place commanding a broom let alone a course or destiny in history for others to follow.

He will choke in his own, miserable, self made puke which is his life. His only forgiveness can only come from that which is greater than man.

When we see 9100 from the deck of the great ship Dhow, will not the navigator then know the way to 1100 ?

Over the last decade, I have steadily accumulated a variety of gold coins in varying denominations. I have Pandas ( PIP ) , Eagles, US Commems, K-Rands, Maples, Phillies, Czarist Rubles, Soverns, plus an armload of Libertads and old Silver Dollars. It is a pretty sight to see it all displayed on a table top.
I know that I have "overpaid" for my gold. I know if I had taken the $$ and "invested" it in stocks, I'd have a larger paper worth right now. But perhaps I am irrational, because I am happy to have all this PM, and I have no regrets in my acquisitions.
I thank many of you at this site for your wide ranging views. Good joke Donald, even if others did not get it. LGB, your new tone is refreshing. Hi RJ.

Thank yuh, pardner, fer the encouraging word.
BTW, has that buildfreedom.com declaration actually held water with a particular judge in a particular case in a particular place at a particular time ?
P.S. Do you know where in the Gulag the Freeman are at this moment in time ?