Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:01 - ID#330175)
No Mas.....................................................April Gold down 1.80
G'nite all~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:04 - ID#224149)
El Nino
Ted ---My favorite Currency shorts  DM ---SF----JY -----Long live North America What the hell happened to winter ---Ice fishing will be replaced by sex ----Away to catch the ZZZZZZZZZZ

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:06 - ID#17155)
Clinton's Colsest Friend (Jordan) Jumps Ship. US Press ignoring the story!
According to Electronic Telegraph ( London ) Jordon is not ready to sink to save Clinton!!!

Internet spells the death of this ugly little frog, commonly referred to as the US government. You do not have to rely on the Commie News Network ( tm ) for your news.

p.s. Iraq
I think US will reject the UN deal and start the bombing tomorrow. There is more here that meets the eye. The result would probably be the end of UN as we know it, since nobody with an ounce of brain could believe afterwards that US is anything but ways for US to dress its dirty work as "International Community Doing."

Or maybe Clinton watched "Wag the Dog" and got some ideas from it. Can't you just see him saying it: "Duuuuh, its sounds great: a girl-scout and starting a war!!! Call Carnvile!!!"

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:09 - ID#17155)
I meant to say:
...that UN is anything but ways for US to dress its dirty work as "International Community Doing."

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:10 - ID#153102)
This isn't Germany in 1923. It was just an example to show how long sheep can sleep.
The Federal Reserve is going to monetize debt by the Monetary Act when bank, corporate, municipality, and State debt defaults occur. Then, to pay interest on this huge debt, they are going to take anything they can find, seize, or attach. Our buddies at the IRS. ATF. FBI. And government at all levels will pass more asset forfeiture laws.
They took the woman's half of the car in Michigan when they seized it over her husband's misdemeanor sex crime, of which she had no knowledge and gave no consent, and the Supreme Court said OK. Big green light. Look out.
Cause stealin' sure beats the heck out of workin'.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:11 - ID#256254)
The first time I heard of China looking to back the yaun with gold was in the early 90's. It may have been around 93. Interesting now that we know that the Dinar was resurrected in 1992. The more we look into this oil/gold/fiat currency situation the more it seems that China is at the center of the universe.

Your view that may China use the Asian currency crisis to make its move is looking even more plausible. As you pointed out letting the Hong Kong peg slip while moving to lock the yaun's value to gold, could be the strongest statement that China can make to the United States, all its supporters, and to the world community. In all your research, China seems to be the country that has a holistic long term currency plan. That plan seems to include many producers outside of Asia but the key participants look to be Russia, Japan, Saudi Arabia ( possibly Islam ) .

Your observation that the Islamic hold over oil production is significant ( Russia's stans, Indonesia and Malaysia are Moslem ) .

The item we are all missing as usual is timing. I agree with you and some others ( ANOTHER included ) in that it feels like the change is close at hand. At one time I thought that the price of Gold would slowly move up and slower take its place in the sun. Now I believe itt will be dramatic like a morning earthquake. A golden sun will flow over the financial devastation of paper houses built on sandy pillars. Only houses built with solid foundations will remain.

I believe that bullion stocks are dropping but smoking mirrors are being used to hide the drop from our view. ( Forward sales, derivatives, ... )

IMHO the Asian problem will soon ( ? ) cause the announcement of gold backed currency from China.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:12 - ID#256254)
Previous posting is to ...

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:20 - ID#28594)
Last, but not least, Japan replies...
South China Morning Post, Mon Feb 23, 1998

Japan rejects critics
Japan angrily hit back yesterday at the barrage of international criticism against its government and said its economic policies were in danger of being widely misunderstood.

"The interpenetration of state and society ( "vertical interdependence" ) which has resulted from the shift toward the modern welfare state in the postwar era, implies a much more intense interplay of domestic and foreign relations and a much higher importance for economic success as a means to secure POLITICAL LEGITIMACY."
Professor Doctor Hanns W. Maull, University of Eichstatt, de

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:22 - ID#255284)
You probably know the etymology of Codswallop, Cod's Wallop was Dr Cod's snake-oil cure-all. Hence codswallop: of no use, a tissue of lies.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:22 - ID#401460)
Petronius 22:55


The killing season

Spring has come early this year in Northern Ireland.
( The writer, an Oxford historian, is the author of Vanishing Diaspora. )

After reading the article you ref. in your post, I still dont under stand the Jewish control of our government. They buy influence like everyone.

Our politicians can be bought by anyone - Buddhist for example.


(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:23 - ID#17155)
****The Federal Reserve is going to monetize debt by the Monetary Act when bank, corporate, municipality, and State debt defaults occur. Then, to pay interest on this huge debt, they are going to take anything they can find, seize, or attach. Our buddies at the IRS. ATF. FBI. And government at all levels will pass more asset forfeiture laws.****

It is not that simple. As RIP Chairman Mao said: "Political power grows from the barrel of a gun."

The significance of this quote here is that while the so called Hostage Rescue Team ( all of their hostages are DEAD ) is quite brave if it is a hundred of them vs. a woman with a child, the situation will be quite different when you have a massive social unrest as a result of fall of the dollar. US military has as many Mc'Veighs as Clinton lovers ) or probably more )

Socialism only works as long as you have stolen goods to distribute. When a socialist government runs out of free beer, chips, and foodball games, it is becomes a game itself. Just ask Eastern European or Indonesian politicians.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:35 - ID#401460)


Plug into your equation Arab Oil, Caspian Sea, Iran Arms, and the revitalization of the Old China Silk Trail.

They have formed an alliance with South Africa, and now the Kruggerand is up in value/demand. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't trading goods for Gold at these prices. Have you tried to buy any Pandas. IMHO, they are aquiring Gold and holding it.

They are the big players now.


(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:40 - ID#284255)
One day does not make a market nor a war.
My ISP is working fine. I don't know what is wrong but I sent you a couple of emails that were returned.

Annan Mission to Baghdad Shifts Focus to Saudi Arabia

Reports from UN Secretary General Kofi Annan's mission to Baghdad,
indicating that a breakthrough has been reached in negotiations with Iraq,
undoubtedly will bring a massive sigh of relief in Washington. The Clinton
administration had arrived on the threshold of military action amidst the
realization that it had created neither a coalition abroad nor the domestic
support needed to wage an extended campaign. Nor did the administration
have an exit strategy. To be more precise, since the military effect of
the bombing would have necessarily been inconclusive, the United States'
only hope was a political evolution in Iraq that, on careful analysis, was
no solution at all. Therefore, we expect the administration to make a
great show of skeptically examining Annan's agreement, rejecting important
portions of it, but still using the agreement as an excuse to delay and
ultimately avoid military action. We would be extremely surprised if the
United States did not seize on this opportunity to change policy.

This leaves open the Iranian question which, in a real sense, is what this
crisis has been about. Annan's announcement of a breakthrough has left the
Iranians literally in midair. Former President Ali Akbar Hashemi
Rafsanjani was in Saudi Arabia on Saturday, accompanied by Iran's Oil
Minister Bijan Namdar-Zangheneh. The Saudis, publicly denying reports that
Saudi Arabia had changed its position on permitting U.S. air strikes, had
positioned themselves nicely to listen to Iranian arguments. A hint of the
content of those arguments might be found in a message sent by Rafsanjani
to the Emir of Bahrain as Rasfanjani's plane passed over Bahraini territory
on its way to Riyadh. The message read, in part, "While in the airspace of
the brother country of Bahrain, I seize the opportunity to offer the best
of greetings to you and the brotherly nation of Bahrain. I pray to God the
Almighty to bestow on you health and progress..." Bahrain, alone with
Kuwait, has unambiguously approved the use of its facilities for attacks on
Iraq. Iran had no problem with Bahrain's cooperation with the United
States, and wanted the world, and especially the Saudis, to know it.

What will Iran do if there are no air strikes and the Iraqi regime
continues to survive? The Iranian end-game was contained in a commentary
by The Voice of the Islamic Republic of Iran, broadcast at the same time as
the Riyadh meetings began. It said that, "if the regional countries had
enjoyed a constructive consensus about controlling the Iraqi regime's
irrational behavior, surely today they would have been immune from
America's tension-inducing presence in the region. Therefore, time is now
ripe for the regional leaders, who adhere to a common faith and creed, to
rely on their shared powerful cultural structures which bind them together
and give greater acceleration to the auspicious move that they have
initiated, in order to attain a regional consensus embracing various
political and even non-political spheres."

Thus, Iran, in fact anticipating Washington's failure to carry out decisive
air strikes, was already trying to outflank Washington on Saturday, making
a direct overture to Saudi Arabia to create a regional force to control
Baghdad. Anticipating that Washington was likely to use Annan's visit as
an excuse to postpone action, Iran had prepared an attractive alternative
for the Saudis and the rest of the Gulf. The alternative was contained in
the phrase "even non-political spheres." Non-political spheres should be
read as referring to oil prices. Iran is proposing to create a regional
coalition against Iraq and the sweetener is that the Saudis and others will
be rewarded for participation in that coalition by Iran's willingness to
coordinate with Riyadh on oil prices inside and outside of OPEC. As
frightening as full cooperation with Iran is, particularly outside the
American umbrella, the oil price issue is so painful to the Saudis that the
Iranian framework may in fact prove tempting. Iran is playing a strong
hand well.

Lest we regard the picture as too rosy for Iran, the situation on its
eastern frontier deteriorated today. The murder of two Iranians in
Pakistan was carefully planned by someone to increase tensions between Iran
and Pakistan at a particularly sensitive moment. Whoever was responsible--
and the suspects range from anti-Iranian Afghans, to Sunnis in Pakistan, to
Iraqi agents--the net result is to distract Iran from its concentration on
a virtuoso diplomatic performance, and possibly even to compel a
redeployment of forces eastward, away from the all-important southern Iraqi
border. The murders were a shrewd move but it is not clear that they will
shift Iranian attention decisively.

The United States has now created an unpleasant dilemma for itself. Its
recent actions have driven home the extent to which its position in the
Middle East has deteriorated. Striking against Iraq without decisively
shattering Saddam's regime would have accelerated this process. Striking
decisively would have strengthened Iran's position. Not striking at all
weakens American credibility further. It is nevertheless the best of a bad
set of choices. But whatever the outcome, the real winner has been Iran,
more and more in a position to build coalitions in the region on its own.
The next move is Saudi Arabia's. Geopolitically, active involvement with
Iran is not attractive. But the oil price crisis has become so intense,
placing enormous pressure on Saudi Arabia's finances, that the possibility
of recruiting Iran for a Saudi-led price rise crusade might dull Saudi
fears about Iran's long-term geopolitical objectives.

We think that this would be unwise for the Saudis. But given what we see
as the intense financial crisis shaking the Kingdom, and the limited
options available to the Saudis on the oil price issue, we suspect that the
short-term help of Iran on oil prices now will prove too tempting. This in
spite of the fact that it is not clear what the Iranians can actually
deliver on the oil price front in practical terms. On the other hand, the
Saudis may well be thinking that, in the end, they will have the benefit of
Iranian cooperation on oil prices now, and be saved from themselves by the
United States in the long run. So now, as many times before, Saudi Arabia
takes center stage in a regional game with global implications.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:40 - ID#17155)
**** After reading the article you ref. in your post, I still dont under stand the Jewish control of our government. They buy influence like everyone. ****

My problem is not with them buying the influence, but rather with the fact that it is a taboo to talk about it. As a result, US's Middle East policy is insane and if you try to logically analyze it, you will be labeled an "Anti-Semite."

The fact that you cannot talk about the influence peddling, creates a protective umbrella for it and you get more of it since addressing a problem ( legislatively or otherwise ) that you cannot talk about is impossible.

The moral to the story is that while an Israeli Newspaper openly talks about the subject ( the author is a well known Jewish intelectual and writes editorials there frequently ) , an American CANNOT talk about that subject. What is wrong with this picture?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:44 - ID#153102)
So long as they are there, it is that simple. Ask any of the people who have already been dispossessed of their cash on the street and in airports. If they find you with any "political power" in your possession, they take that and charge you with a crime.

Social unrest won't bother them at all. That just garners support from a certain segment that wants order at any price. They will probably even incite it.

I saw where Germany was debating in-house electronic surveillance and physical searches without a warrant. The United States Government already has that legal authority. Since 1995. It's already been used. Did you read about it ? Course not.

I've been hearing very detailed rumors for some time regarding detention camps being already built to house "political dissidents". size and other description; County & State. God help us.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:48 - ID#288155)
A. Goose, and WHEN will it be? this mighty rending of the earth... Beyond the Fringe--eons ago...

It is quite extraordinary that China seems to be the player with the most options available to it! Zhu Rongji ( not to leave Jiang out ) are formidable men who have been tested in a way that Western leaders have not ( most particularly US leaders ) . That has to give them an edge...and planning, the idea that they have national goals--I cant get over the 55 year forecast!--whilst we stumble from fiscal year to fiscal year...and consider THAT is long-term planning.

Ill start scrambling around tomorrow to see if we can find hints as to which way it will go: it will be either an Asian Currency unit defined in gold, or bring the Dinar forward...personally I think China will be quite content to let someone else take the glory; they have been marvelously reticent as they went about their dog and pony show. Captivated all--including the dowager who said, after Zhu Rongji World Bank speech in NY, If Cary Grant had been Chinese, he would have been Zhu Rongji!.

Gee. Who can fight that?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:50 - ID#336297)
@getting ready for the beach!
+4 Degrees C, tonight in Southern Manitoba---Hard to believe---SPOOKY!!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:53 - ID#288155)
Aurator--No! I didn't know...I just very much admired the 'bite' it had...
Thank you very much. I shall use it now with pleasure and Knowledge {:- )

(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:55 - ID#401460)
Setting new legal precedent is behind much of what has been going on for some time now. The drug enforcement has taken away our right of protection from illegal search and seizure. Now a lot of this stuff going on in D.C. is taking away many more of our rights.

I maybe wrong, but I feel that they are already monetizing the debt. The Fed has had to come into the market and buy Bonds on a regular basis.

Isnt that what they do when they add liquidity?
They buy Bonds. They were using the weather ( El Nino ) as an excuse for intervention lately.


(Mon Feb 23 1998 00:57 - ID#17155)
**** I've been hearing very detailed rumors for some time regarding detention camps being already built to house "political dissidents". size and other description; County & State. God help us. ****

Never in history was any government capable of arresting people massively like that. It just does not happen. All what Nazi terror tricks did, in Eastern Europe, for example was to mobilize large percentage of population into guerilla warfare. In short time, the cost of maintaining terror was higher than benefits of it. If somebody was stupid enough to go to the concentration camp after being ordered to do so, he rightfully is now removed from the gene pool ( it is a good thing ) .

(Mon Feb 23 1998 01:07 - ID#288155)
Sharefin--Hello! A question, if you please...
I'm confused ( there's a surprise! ) : do you think Arabs will side with Iran ( Moslem, but Persian ) over an Arab 'brother' ( however
troublesome he may be ) ? SH is Iran's enemy, but is he--or can he
be positioned--to be an 'enemy' of the Arab states...everybody's enemy?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 01:09 - ID#401460)

Thanks for the reply.
I knew I was missing your point.

I agree, that when ever anyone discusses market manipulation, Presidential market and political Control, the Jewish community and others jump all over them calling them conspiracy nuts.

They can attack everyone but no one has a right to question them on anything.

Everything is pretty one sided. I can't believe how supposedly caring liberals keep defending liars, crooks, fakes and flakes the way the do.

How are they justifying all of the anti war demonstrations taking place today against their politicians. They use to be anti war protesters against Viet Nam. Hypocrites.


(Mon Feb 23 1998 01:34 - ID#153102)
They already have more people in cages as a percentage of population than any other government on earth and they haven't even broken a sweat. They rounded up the entire Japanese American population without a ripple. If you can manage the mass mind, the sheep will collect themselves for shearing and slaughter

(Mon Feb 23 1998 01:46 - ID#153102)
Yes, they have used the authority in the Monetary Act since 1980. That's how the S&L and banking disaster was handled. It will simply accelerate in a downturn. They are bankrupt and have no way to continue in power except by conspiring to maintain the appearance of legitimacy with intricate, baldfaced lies while devouring the substance of the country on the pretext of benefiting the victims of social injustice.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 02:10 - ID#215379)
Did the G-6 get you mad ?? Go ahead and sell more US T-bonds and buy gold.. Get even.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 02:17 - ID#215379)
Did everyone notice the 1.50 spike up in gold and corresponding spike up in silver? Or was that just a Heartbeat ??

(Mon Feb 23 1998 02:36 - ID#39845)
Urgent Communique for A. Goose and SDRer (only days since Taiwan CB cheif killed)
Monday 23 February, 1998 ( 6:17pm AEDT )

Taiwan's vice president Lien Chan has left the country on
another mysterious overseas journey.

Airport sources told reporters that he left on a commercial
flight bound for Thailand to meet a connecting flight to the
Jordanian capital Amman.

The presidential office confirmed Mr Lien had left the island,
but declined to comment on his itinerary, maintaining the a
tight blanket of secrecy.

Foreign Minister Jason Hu, says the secrecy is aimed at
circumventing China's interference.

China vigorously protested when Mr Lien visited Singapore
in January and lodged similar complaints when he went to
Ireland, Iceland, the Vatican and the United States last year.

Return to the World News Menu

plus from the Asia Pacific Region in Indonesian, Chinese and Tok Pisin

 1998 Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Mon Feb 23 18:30:00 1998 ( AEDT )

AEDT = Australian Eastern Daylight Time which is 11 hours ahead of UTC ( Greenwich Mean Time )

(Mon Feb 23 1998 02:55 - ID#39845)
Oh yeah and I forgot! Forget about Heavens Gate Cultists
They will be talking about Goldbugs for the next 5 years when this
gold rocket takes off. The only thing holding it back are damn
US o-rings. Taiwanese Arab secrecy? Hmmmmmmmmm Anyone know
how much gold Taiwan CB holds. China doesnt want to let the
cat out of the bag. Maybe China and US did a job on Yuan-dong.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 03:04 - ID#153102)
"The country is wallowing in excess manufacturing capacity, and real estate in Shanghai and Beijing has been over-built. A British visitor who has recently returned from a trip to China wrote to me on Nov. 6 that a member of the Shanghai Real Estate Board enthusiastically proclaimed: "Shanghai property is hot." To which the Briton replied: "No, Shanghai property is empty." The newly built malls and commercial buildings which she had visited "were all eerily empty."

Why? Because the foreign investors had talked themselves into spending
hundreds of billions of dollars against the grossly inflated Asian economic growth projections. And because the greedy local chieftains had talked themselves into believing that they can buy economic prosperity with borrowed money."

Just like the local chieftains of State governments did in the USA in 1935. Bait with something for nothing, easy "money" greenback benefits & hook with debt. It works with individuals, domestic States, and foreign States. With corporations and Wall Street on board after 1945, they just took the show on the international road.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 03:11 - ID#39845)
Another do you have anything to do with THE secret deal being done
with Taiwan in Jordan?

Strad Master
(Mon Feb 23 1998 03:25 - ID#250297)
James, Mike Sheller, and All
JAMES: Your apology ( Feb 22 - 15:30 ) is accepted and much appreciated. You are a true gentleman.

MIKE SHELLER: Your earlier post to me reminds of SNL's Emily Latella: "What's all this I hear about VIOLINS in the streets? ...Oh... Never mind." That one had me ROTFL for quite awhile.

ALL: I'm no expert, but it seems to me that despite all this talk of war with Iraq gold couldn't bust through $300. Now that the threat seems to have been removed, the downside beckons again. We shall see...

Pumpkin time for me. See y'all tomorrow.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 03:39 - ID#284255)
Who will win?
Sorry but that question is just too hard.

Sort of like asking who's going to win the third game between Big Blue and Kasparov after they had won one game each.

The machinations and manipulations currently worldwide are beyond me.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 03:40 - ID#419147)
some facts..
Mozel... Stalin arrested some 20 million and everybody both IN the country and ABROAD was not complining.

Despite the 20 mil arrests theese who remained out of jail were still VERY pariotic about Soviet Union ( it was 1930-ties ) .

There was famine in rural regions, which had throughout history exported grain. There was shortage of manufactured goods in cities which used to rebel when the price of petroleum rose 10% ( not speaking of shortage ) . There was electricity only when a major raid against gangsters, deserters or "social parasites" was going on. That did not mattered, people believed the wold was good and going better, sort of "new paradigm".


(Mon Feb 23 1998 03:47 - ID#419147)
*** Never in history was any government capable of arresting people massively like that. It just does not happen. ***

It has happened and will happen again. Theese systems wont last, but just think of what the nazies, Stalin etc. accomplished before they were torn down. Sure, in the end it results in an uprising and collapse of the system.


(Mon Feb 23 1998 04:35 - ID#228283)

Hasn't it occurred to one and all we HAVE been arrested but the IRS and the rest of the crooked lot continue to let us "live" where we are as long as we behave ourselves. Whatever happened to the US Constitution and the gold standared? WE the people let it happen!!! Somehow WE must get it back....

Just some thoughts ....

Goodnight from the chilly Midwest.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 04:47 - ID#358318)
7000 Tonnes of GOLD
Much speculation has been made regarding the 7000 tonnes GOLD for sale ( which has an email contact at ) .

may be found an entry in the name of:

12685 Dorsett Rd., Suite 132
St. Louis, Missouri 63043. USA
Tel: 314-878-2486
Fax: 314-576-6150

The ISP has an address at 1854 Craig Park Ct.
St. Louis, MO 63142

AVDEC Inc. and both having an address in St. Louis, Missouri, is too good a coincidence. Perhaps someone should call on AVDEC Inc. and ask them if they know anything about 7000 Tonnes of Gold.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 05:25 - ID#39845)
RADIO FREE ASIA are SCUMBAGS this sight out. These guys bought
Australias transmission facilities after Aussie gov closed
its radio broadcasts to Asia. Must of thought yanks could
do a better job broadcasting from Washington D.C. Hey this
sale went ahead just prior to SS Asian Currency sinking. CIA
FRONT CIA FRONT Add to your list. Send the creaps an email.
Get them out of our frigging backyard.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 05:27 - ID#39845)
Sorry, my mistake.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 05:31 - ID#288295)

You don't suppose they could be doing business for the St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank, do you?

P.S. Congrats on finding this stuff; I tried for an hour last nite with no results.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 05:43 - ID#432148)
Your 00:40 gives an excellent analysis of the behind the scenes activities in the ME. I just can't believe what the U. S. are doing. Now calling up reservists? What kind of chess game do they think they are playing? What is really the U. S. NATIONAL INTEREST over there? Are we really worried about the oil supply? They have to sell it in any event, don't they? Yes, power corrupts etc.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 06:13 - ID#358318)
Silverbaron 05:31
"You don't suppose they could be doing business for the St. Louis Federal
Reserve Bank, do you?"

Interesting theory. Not many people can supply that quantity.

Fed Res Bank of St. Louis:
President's bio:
Head office at St. Louis, Missouri.
Branch Banks at Little Rock, Arkansas; Louisville, Kentucky, and
Memphis, Tennessee.
Covers the state of Arkansas- wait, let me get my conspiracy handbook...

(Mon Feb 23 1998 06:18 - ID#238295)
JSE Gold Index down 3% this morning. Looks like another excellent buying opportunity is getting close -- probably towards the end of the week.

Petronius: As a Jew I can tell you the main reason the Israeli lobby is so powerful is that its friends control much of the national media, Hollywood, and are extremely powerful in the financial community Goldman Sachs, etc. ) . This lobby provides about half the campaign funds of the Democratic Party. But it also depends on allies like Jerry Falwell's Christian Coalition. It frequently makes common cause with the military-industrial complex. And indeed the charge of "anti-semitism" has been used successfully for many years to silence critics.

This lobby's influence extends to both political parties, although it is strongest among Democrats. Even labor organizations such as the AFL-CIO often follow its dictates in foreign affairs. For example, Texas populist Jim Hightower has an AFL-CIO sponsored web site whose audio commentaries bitterly criticize the establishment on issues such as free trade, corporate bailouts, and political corruption. But the normally outspoken Mr. Hightower has said nothing about the Iraq crisis, probably because some in the AFL-CIO leadership support Clinton on this one.

Ironically some of this lobby's chief critics are themselves Jewish. And many Jews do disagree with the hard line policies of the Israeli government and American support for these policies. But they are not generally in leadership positions within the community.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 06:23 - ID#248180)
@ANOTHER is back by popular demand!
ANOTHER - Why don't you LIFT YOUR SKIRT a wee bit and let us have a little peek? Your last post has a very prophetic tone and style. Simple and clear language is very much appreciated in most circles, especially when we must contend daily with the double speak of the IMF, BIS, USA, UN and their spokespersons. Please unwind the riddles.

7,000 tonnes of gold for sale or rent or wanted to buy or lease. Lads you have flogged this horse for to long. Get real who is going to trade or attempt to trade that much Au on a Tradenet site? A hoax or misprint at best; unless Bill Gates wants to make a small purchase?

Oris- Braht: I have returned from my journey and am pleased to announce that I am now long on vodka & pickles ( "millasolniaya agoodstie" ) "Na zdarrovia". Aaahhhh the first one did not even touch the sides. This is hard work but someone has to do it.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 06:23 - ID#411331)
@Silverbaron re. 7000 ton gold sale
The American connection to this "sale" does not surprise me. Does the
St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank have 7000 tons of gold? Does the US Treasury have 7000 tons of gold? What single world entity has 7000 tons
of gold? Or am I being too simplistic about this?

I still think this is a scam to manipulate the gold spot price downwards
and difscredit gold before the crash.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 06:31 - ID#248180)
This is a great buying day Kats & Kittens! Buy PM's physical and hold long. Buy mining stocks and holdem. Buy gas & oil producer stocks in OZ.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 06:35 - ID#358318)
Junior 6:23
You are probably right about 7000 Tonnes being an implausible number.
( 1 ) if correct, 7000 Tonnes = 7000*32151 oz ~ $66 billion.
( 2 ) 7.000 Tonnes or 7000 grammes ~ $66 million.
( 3 ) 7000 oz. ~ $2 million.

Option ( 3 ) would make a lot more sense.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 06:46 - ID#358318)
Junior 6:23
The ad in question specifically spells out "PRODUCT: AU Metal ( Gold )
QUANTITY: 7,000 ( Seven Thousand ) Metric Tons, all at once." The ad as such is obviously not a misprint although it could conceivably have been garbled earlier at the source.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 06:50 - ID#185448)
Re: Austrian Schilling vs. golden eagle
Just visited Vronskis web-site, studying the hypothesis of a significant correlation between CB-Gold-sales and Currency-devaluation.
As a Goldbug, generally I agree. But I feel the urge to make some annotations to the item:
If you watch the charts and figures re. the devaluation of European Currencies vs the USD, you will note that there is a significant uniformity in their moves at least over the last 12 months.
Herewith, I want to install a counter-hypothesis, which I humbly want to argue as follows:

Current devaluations in european currencies vs the USD are rather caused by the future EMU, as the exchange-ratios between the various European Currencies obviously have been pre-fixed. Their moves increase in parallelity and do not show dramatic deviations within a certain, narrowing, bandwith.

Future-EMUs leading currency, DEM ( "Piefke-Dollar" ) , also "suffered" a similar devaluation vs. the Greenback - without CB-sales of Gold.

Italys Lira ( "Camorra-Dollar" ) significantly advanced last year vs other European Currencies ( incl. DEM !! ) and was rather a political upswing but an economically-backed step ( in my op. ) - supporting my theory of pre-fixed rates between Currencies and future EURO. Italy sold no Gold, thats true - but did not buy Gold on the other hand ( i. e.: reversal conclusion not possible ) .

Austrian Schilling ( "Soundofmusic-Dollar" ) is pegged to the DEM for many years now in a stable exchange-rate of approx. 1:7 which did not change despite CB-sales of 58% of Gold-Holdings.

A similar development can be observed as far as interest-rates in Europe are concerned which approximate despite differences within the local economies.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:01 - ID#248180)
I'll go with option 3 on your post.
This is an excellent forum with some good minds contributing on a regular basis that promotes stimulating thoughts and concepts. It is a pity that so many have chased this "fart in the wind" of 7000 M/T.

Let us return to currencies, POG, UN, IMF, BIS & PM's & mining stocks, WARS & Slick Willies PECKER PROBLEMS.

Some ONE out there please tell us when and how we are going to break this POG fixing and when the facts and perception is about to change re the DOW. Time is a wasting. As John Wayne said "we're burning daylight".

(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:12 - ID#289357)
Yes, the St. Louis Fed ( if acting as an agent of the USG or other central banks ) would have access to more than this amount, which is about 225 MM ounces. The USG holds, if memory serves me correctly, 261 MM ounces.

My inclination is to believe this is a scam also, but it could conceivably be a way for the central bankers to postpone the end game for a while by buying out most ( all? ) the gold forward sales etc., ( which are of the same magnitude ) .

I personally intend to fax or email a copy of the advertisement to the company today, just to let them know we're watching them. I encourage everyone else on this forum to do likewise.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:14 - ID#185448)
Short milk-chocolate
If the 7000 ton-announcement is part of another big-scale drive-the-POG-down-attempt, we just have to lean back and wait for an announcement from Switzerland like twice in 1997, to know for sure.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:16 - ID#284255)
I never wrote it. Not my style.
The article in question was put out by Red Alert @ Stratfor.
You know the site that Ziva was always posting.
I just left out the advertising. ( g )
This site has an interesting chart.
How Steep Will The Slowdown Be ?
An Asia-centered slowdown in global economic growth will emerge this year, comparable in magnitude to the downturns in 1988-89 and 1995. The world economy rarely recovers quickly from such shocks, despite declining interest rates. Furthermore, the fall in the price of gold in the past two years suggests that, as in 1988-89, the current situation may contain considerably more disinflationary potential than the circumstances of 1995. If the major central banks wait for the Asian fallout to reach their shores before easing policy, as we expect, bond yields will fall faster than short rates through 1998, inverting the G7 yield curve and accentuating the economic downturn.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:17 - ID#289349)
Imagine that the world was running out of gasoline. We had only a few years supply left. Stocks were the lowest in history. A billionare had just bought 20% of what was left and the result is the price of gas drops to .75 per gallon. This is analagious to what's going on with silver. Someone has got to be manipulating the silver market big time. Come on Warren, call their bluff, take 10% of your portfolio and just buy the REST!!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:19 - ID#398105)
I have just listen to Albright on the News............

She says.........

"We can apply a veto to an Security Council proposal".......

meaning that although Mr Annan has reached an agreement with Saddam, the USA is not bound by the Un proposal.

It's a funny old world......I could have sworn blind that Russia, China and France are part of the Security Council with a right to veto.

So, looks like the "play" is a USA "ploy" afterall.

It will be interesting to see if the USA follows its own agenda and bombs Iraq anyway. So much for the rule of International law.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:23 - ID#248180)
@ Haggis - USA Ploy
Did you ever really think it was or is anything but?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:25 - ID#351224)
China Oil
Sorry to take up bandwidth, but I thought following inscrutably interesting!

Beijing Gusher
China pays hugely to bag energy supplies abroad


By Ahmed Rashid in Islamabad and Trish Saywell in Beijing


February 26, 1998
A freight train carrying 1,700 tonnes of crude oil crosses from Kazakhstan into China's westernmost province of Xinjiang. On China's eastern seaboard, a tanker unloads 60,000 tonnes of Peruvian crude at the port of Qinhuangdao in Hebei.

These two deliveries, arriving late last year, were landmarks for China: They were the first imports from Chinese-owned oil fields outside the country. As such they marked a fundamental change in Beijing's energy policy: Instead of simply buying oil on the world market, China is buying oil fields across the globe and shipping the crude back home to meet surging demand.

Since the first delivery in October, another 30,000 tonnes of crude have arrived by rail from China's Aktyubinskmunai field in Kazakhstan. And there's much more to come. In the months ahead, state-owned China National Petroleum Corp. will produce oil from newly acquired fields in Sudan, Venezuela and Azerbaijan. Moreover, if current negotiations bear fruit, CNPC may also soon hold title to oil and gas concessions in Iran, Turkmenistan and Russia.

In its rush to tap the world's energy reserves, China is snapping up oilfields and bidding up their prices at a rate that would make even a Western oil giant blush. In the past nine months, CNPC has pledged more than $8 billion for oil concessions in Sudan, Venezuela, Iraq and Kazakhstan--plus $12.5 billion to lay four oil and gas pipelines ( total length 13,500 kilometres ) from Central Asia and Russia to China.

Such huge investments underscore China's sense of urgency about securing new energy resources abroad, even if that means paying a premium--or coming into conflict with other major powers like the United States and Russia. For example, to win the bid to develop 60% of the Uzen oilfield, Kazakhstan's second-largest, CNPC paid an estimated 30% more than its nearest rival. It also promised to build pipelines from Uzen not only to China but also to Iran--something its American rivals couldn't do because of U.S. sanctions against Teheran. Iraq, too, is on China's list of budding partners.

For its Venezuelan fields, CNPC offered twice as much as the next-highest bidder. "CNPC has come out aggressively to capture those deals and paid a higher price than its competitors," says Tom Ing, Beijing-based president of Amoco Orient, the American oil major that lost the bidding on Uzen. Adds John Imle, president of Unocal, another American oil giant that is feeling the heat from CNPC: "They're acquiring a lot of crude-oil resources and they're certainly very liberal in what they're paying. From that point of view they're a formidable competitor."

China's scramble to build a supply network abroad is driven by a hard truth: With oil production stagnating at home and economic growth still outstripping the rest of the world's, the country won't be able to fuel itself in the future. "China needs to bring on more new energy supplies in bigger volumes and at faster rates than any other country in the world has ever attempted," Robert Simmons, chief executive officer of Houston-based oil consultancy Simmons & Co. International, wrote in a recent report.

Those new energy supplies have been imported in ever greater volumes over the last three years as domestic output has failed to keep up with the booming economy. In 1994, China imported just 3 million tonnes of crude oil. In 1996, this had risen to 22.6 million tonnes. In the first three-quarters of last year, imports are estimated to have risen another 54% year-on-year to 24 million tonnes, according to China OGP, a state-run oil and gas newsletter. By some estimates, China will need to import 50 million tonnes of oil annually by 2000--about 30% of its needs. Of this, about half could come from China-owned fields abroad.

Apart from its thirst for oil, China's need of natural gas is likely to almost double by 2000 as the country shifts away from coal, which currently supplies about 80% of its energy needs ( and most of its air pollution ) . It's estimated that perhaps half of China's natural gas needs will have to be met by imports over the next 20 years.

Although China is still the world's fifth-largest oil producer, its production levels have remained static in recent years as fields such as Daqing in the northeast have yielded less crude. Meanwhile, untapped reserves in the Tarim Basin in Xinjiang have proved elusive. The Chinese had touted Tarim as the site of the next great gushers, boasting reserves of 300 million tonnes. But after five blocks in Tarim were opened to Western companies in 1993, drillers in the harsh desert sands stumbled from one dry hole to the next. The Chinese had to drastically revise their figures: Tarim's reserves may be as low as 30 million tonnes.

That has been a blow not only to the oil companies but also to Beijing's strategy of trying to secure "the long-term and stable supply of oil to China"--the goal laid down by Premier Li Peng in 1993.

"The ideal security is if they found another Saudi Arabia sitting in the Tarim Basin--that would be great," says an American oil executive in Beijing. "But at this stage they are hedging their bets. They're looking for strategic alliances with their direct neighbours and farther afield."

Chinese officials have spoken of the need for a "strategic oil-supply security system"--shorthand for the need to build diverse oil supplies worldwide that would not be vulnerable to the blockade of any one shipping lane or an embargo on any one exporter. "The belief of senior politburo members is that the more control they have over overseas oil, the more likely they are to be able to supply their needs," says Paul McDonald, managing director of Pearl Oil, a Hong Kong consultancy. "They feel there are too many hostile countries around, the U.S. in particular, which are prone to boycotts against countries. They also have this very strong memory that the Soviet Union let them down in the 1960s when they took their technicians home. So they want to show some independence."

China's independent streak has geopolitical implications: Its drive for fuel self-sufficiency may lead it into collision with vital U.S. and Russian strategic interests.

Beijing is unabashedly going after deals in Iran and Iraq, two oil-rich countries Washington is trying to isolate economically. Last June, CNPC signed a $1.2 billion production-sharing agreement with Iraq to develop the Ahdab oilfield. "In Iraq, they want to position themselves to start exports the moment UN sanctions are lifted," says a Western diplomat in Beijing. "And they want a strategic relationship with Iran." As part of that strategy, China plans to build a 1,000-kilometre pipeline to Iran from the Chinese-owned Uzen oilfield in Kazakhstan. The pipeline would snake south across Turkmenistan and Iran to the Persian Gulf, from where the oil would be shipped to cities along China's coast and westwards to Europe.

On September 25, China and Kazakhstan signed an agreement to build the first 250-kilometre stretch of the pipeline from Uzen to the Turkmen border. Iran has already designated Tomen of Japan and Ipco of Singapore to help build the pipeline. Teheran has also commissioned Siemens of Germany and a French company to help plan the route. The U.S. has objected to any pipeline that would give Iran a grip on oil from Central Asia and dramatically increase Teheran's influence in the region. "If China goes ahead with an Iran line it would create serious problems in our relationship," says a senior U.S. energy-policy official in Washington.

In Kazakhstan, competition from China is also slowing Washington's plans to tap oil and gas reserves around the resource-rich Caspian Sea. The U.S. wants to reduce its reliance on Middle Eastern crude. But Kazakhstan is also key to China's plans. "The Chinese see Kazakhstan as the natural land bridge to Iran and Iraq, where the real bonanza lies," says the Western diplomat in Beijing.

So far the U.S. has tolerated China's global energy search. The issue was high on the agenda when U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright visited Beijing in the middle of last year and when President Jiang Zemin went to Washington in November. "Albright had extensive discussions with the Chinese and we offered to share our data on the Caspian Basin with them," says a senior American diplomat in Washington involved in energy policy.

U.S. Energy Secretary Federico Pena acknowledged in a speech on November 21 that the Chinese "need to have access to the vast energy supplies" around the Caspian. But he reiterated the U.S. policy of locking Iran--"a country that funds, trains and supports terrorists"--out of the region's energy projects. The Chinese, however, seem intent on taking the Iranian gamble and show no sign of bending to U.S. pressure.

China is also playing pipeline poker with Russia, which opposes Chinese plans for a pipeline running eastwards from Uzen to Xinjiang. Moscow doesn't want to see former Soviet republics in its orbit--in this case Kazakhstan--develop independent foreign policies. "A clash of interests may arise between Russia and China in Central Asia," says Lt.-Gen. William Odon, director of national-security studies at the Hudson Institute, a think-tank in Washington.

Yet Russia is reluctant to offend China, a potential market for its massive Kovyktinskoye oil and gas fields in Siberia. On November 10, President Boris Yeltsin and President Jiang signed a framework agreement to lay a natural-gas pipeline from the Siberian fields across 1,000 kilometres of Mongolia to China's Shandong province. Extensions would later feed gas to Japan and South Korea.

For China and Kazakhstan, there's also a convergence of interests. Moscow currently controls all existing pipelines from Kazakhstan to world markets. A pipeline or two to China would allow the Kazakhs to break Moscow's stranglehold on exports. What's more, Kazakhstan needs revenue as urgently as China seeks oil.

To win the Uzen oilfield, CNPC offered benefits reminiscent of China's aid packages to Africa in the 1960s. CNPC pledged 8% of its net profits in royalties to the Kazakh government and promised to pay off Uzen's $6 million debt, invest $10 million in training programmes for oil technicians and provide $27 million in social services. Premier Li personally lobbied for the $4.4 billion Uzen deal and promised to build the pipeline to sweeten the pot.

China's eagerness to clinch the Kazakh deal wasn't purely economic. Domestic political concerns probably played a role too. The pipeline would bring jobs to Xinjiang, a hotbed of discontent among the Muslim Uighurs who form the majority of the population. China is trying to persuade its Central Asian neighbours not to support separatist movements in Xinjiang. About 200,000 Uighurs live in Kazakhstan, and some of Xinjiang's Uighur opposition groups have offices in its largest city, Alma Ata. "There is potential political chaos in that area, so the central government was very happy to get energy projects there," says Lu Huaibin of Cambridge Energy Research Associates in Massachusetts, who worked at CNPC for 20 years. Says Xu Yihe, editor of China OGP: "There may have been geopolitical reasons behind these biddings."

In time, China plans to extend a pipeline from landlocked Xinjiang to its coastal provinces in the east, where energy consumption is highest. "The pipeline to Xinjiang is just half the story," says the chief executive of a European oil company in China. "It's another 2,000 kilometres from anywhere."

Of course, any of these planned pipelines could remain pipedreams. Apart from raising the necessary funds, constructing the pipelines will pose ferocious problems. For example, special alloys and insulation will be needed to protect the pipeline in the Taklimakan desert, where temperatures swing between 50 degrees and minus 40 degrees Celsius.

Despite these huge practical and financial obstacles, however, China sees its future growth at stake. To keep its economy humming, costly energy deals and possible big-power confrontations are gambles it seems ready to take.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:27 - ID#398105)
Junior (@ Haggis - USA Ploy)..............

No I did not, but now the Cat is well and truely out of the bag ?!

Bully Beef
(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:36 - ID#259282)
Prefer total economic collapse to war with Iraq
Gee wiz... when you are dissapointed there is no war and the price of gold dives you need the couch. DR. Freud says ...well maybe the banks will fail instead . That would be good .NO? I should invest in something happy. Maybe the Single Malt family.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:41 - ID#248180)
@ miles in China Oil
Thanks very interesting post. Leaves one with little to wonder about why China & Russia are so willing and must back Iraq for there self interests. Then there is the good ole US the "World Cop" for everyones good......, bullshit the USA does not give a rats ass about Saddam's anthrax viles - the USA is in ME to protect what it has grown to beleive as it's own oil reserves and maintain the free flow. China and Russia with other Asian & M/East alliances will tip the currency-oil-gold cart.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:47 - ID#398105)

"Clinton may already be the victim of blackmail. I believe the first
senerio of a settlement is the one."

...Clinton would not have "a" problem, unless he had "A" problem.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 07:52 - ID#339320)
@High Rise

HighRise= "I maybe wrong, but I feel that they are already monetizing the debt. The Fed has had to come into the market and buy Bonds on a regular basis."

Life must be really great for the Feds. The gov's have already taxed everbody to death..... to the point where there is more downside risk to opening a widgit factory, than there upside potential after your Federal partners take the lionshare of your real profits. Your partner has no downside risk, if the business generates a loss, it is no skin off their noses. The gov can now taxe and spend ( much more than taxes actual recieved ) to their heart's content, as the more world economies are slowing down......the more it allows them to monetize debt WITHOUT fear of inflation and at the same time creating more liquidity on the world markets. For the moment, they have a WIN/WIN situation......for the moment.

Don't you find it eerie.....the daily closing figures of the DOW, how they have been SO stable. Just as it was obvious the the Plunge Protection Team jumped in and reliquidated the market during the crash a few months ago, so be it that they are now selling just enough of these Blue-Chip purchases on a daily basis.... just enough to allow the market to show a single digit increase every day, and still recuperate their illicit investment.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 08:02 - ID#254269)
Checking out for a little while; good morning all, have a project out of the
office for next couple of weeks; will only be posting occassionally.
In my absence, Donald is in charge.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 08:06 - ID#398105)
There are a number of interesting issues at Kitco...........

........particularly when one has been out of the "social intercourse" for a while.

It would appear that issues over the last 24 hours have caused Kitco to move UP a couple of gears...............

One issue in relation to Indonesia, 13 000 islands of which 80% have a mineral resource - essentially gold/silver. BIG future production potential. If you were them, what would you prefer - a back door deal with a Middle Eastern group ( including Saudi ) , or an IMF bailout in US dollars. This would give the Middle Eastern group direct access to GOLD - even if they used proxies via London ( RTZ ) .

Interesting times ?

JOE Smith
(Mon Feb 23 1998 08:23 - ID#24869)
Looking for some facts on Rhodium
price history,consumption,suppliers and where ut is currently mined.

and any thoughts on its future..

Haggis u should know why I want em!!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 08:46 - ID#224149)
No War
Ted --Look what happens to Gold ?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 08:51 - ID#284255)
Charts for navigating
XAU/Au chart + JOH Au index

Dow/Au chart

Au/Ag chart

ANOTHER - updated

(Mon Feb 23 1998 08:53 - ID#398105)
Joe Smith.................

There are possibly up to 10 000 g/t reasons why I am interested in RHODIUM...........

(Mon Feb 23 1998 08:56 - ID#398105)

(Mon Feb 23 1998 08:57 - ID#284255)
Do you have an opinion on Eastern Copper Corp?
I followed them on their rise in 96.

ECM & LEG look ready to jump again

Ta Nick

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:03 - ID#398105)
How much "Oil" can be tied up in this.................

02/19/1998 $5,515,606,648,101.35

Now, if anyone can guess what this is.................

For them, I will pay for a "Root" in Hay Street"...........

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:07 - ID#398105)

sharefin ( ECU ) ID#284255:
Do you have an opinion on Eastern Copper Corp?

I will have to do some research....back tomorrow.

The current copper market does not look too good - they better have something else......

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:09 - ID#284255)
How much?
Debt to the penny.

Gold down $4 on the strength of no war.

And it could all change at the press of a button.

What will Clinton pull out now?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:10 - ID#351224)
Chronology of global Collapse
Exhausting but compelling!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:11 - ID#330175)
April Gold DOWN 4.20~~~~~~~~~~~~but Shaq still suks!

JOE Smith
(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:14 - ID#24869)
EASTERN report
this may be the one
HOMEX - Brisbane
Eastern Gold Corporation is pleased to announce the results of a
detailed evaluation of the distribution of silver mineralisation
within its previously announced Inferred Resource of 2.4 million
tonnes grading 5.5 g/t gold and 21 g/t silver.
The bulk of the silver contained in the resource is in the western
portion of the South Vein and North Vein A at its T'Boli Project. The
western 250 metres of these two veins have an Inferred Resource of
511,000 tonnes grading 6.9 g/t gold and 69 g/t silver containing
113,000 ounces of gold and 1,130,000 ounces of silver.
This western 250 metres of the resource contains 71% of the total
silver in the resource and both veins are open to the west and atdepth.
The Company will concentrate its 1998 drilling programme on
extensions to this high silver portion of the resource. Several drill
sites have been identified and a programme of mapping and soil
sampling is underway to identify further drill targets.
Details of this high silver mineralisation are as follows:
( Included in Total Resource )
Tonnes g/t Au g/t Ag

South Vein 262,000 9.8 95
North Vein 249,000 3.8 41
Sub-total 511,000 6.9 69Methodology
Individual vein samples were bulked to 2.5 metres wide in block
modelling with the additional ground to meet this width assumed as
barren. A low cut of 1 g/t Au was applied to calculate block grades.D Green
Technical aspects of this report have been compiled by Garry J Clark
B. Sc ( Hons ) FAIMM FSEG.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:15 - ID#284255)
They had a very rich gold deposit in Indonesia somewhere.
Went from 15c to $1.85 on the strength of it.
Then they got dumped when Bre-x fell over.
Then they got dumped when Indonesia fell over.
I just don't know the current fundamentals.

GCJ8 = $294.00

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:16 - ID#330175)
As I scroll back in time~~~~~~~~

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:16 - ID#351224)
Try again

JOE Smith
(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:18 - ID#24869)
That report is very expensive---looks like a trip to the library

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:20 - ID#284255)
Joe Smith
Thanks mate.
T'Boli was what they were working on back then.
Noticed the vols the last couple of days.
The co has few shares issued.
So could rebound strongly.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:20 - ID#348129)
@Let's not kid each other
The moment the bombs would have started falling on Bagdad, Gold would have plunged.
It should surprise no one that it's falling on the NO-War scenario.
It seems that every news item that pops out is another reason to sell Gold.
The Olympics promote winning Gold, and yet gives away cheap worthless plated trinkets ---- the paper that states you are a medal winner
is worth more than the medal itself !!!
It's pretty clear that the powers that rule have decided that Gold is not going up in the near term.
Looks like Gold will go up only after some unexpected and uncontrolable event occurs, one that the powers will have no influence over.
At that point it will be very difficult to buy Gold..........

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:22 - ID#330175)
Winter or lack there of
Poorboys: Do we miss 'it'--------naaaaahhhh ( especially when I have to pay 35$C for each driveway plow-job )

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:23 - ID#238295)
Gold would be doing even worse if Clinton had attacked. The Plunge Protection Team would have gone all out to knock gold down and push financial assets up to show the market's approval of Clinton's policies. Still looking for a major buying opportunity later this week.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:26 - ID#411259)
..... Toes wet and cold ......

Watch the news tonight, folks. The mother of all El Nino storms so far is just starting to batter the Southern California coast, 7 inches of rain will dump on already saturated ground. The mud will slide and galoshes, will earn their keep.

Watch silver too........ The next 2 weeks will tell.............

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:27 - ID#238295)
JSE Gold Index now down 5%.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:28 - ID#348129)
@Canada / Winter
Ted, who needs winter up here. We are now getting milder winters consistently due greenhouse effect etc.
Meanwhile the US is getting hammered by more powerfull storm systems.
Wait till hurricane season.......
Stay up north....

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:29 - ID#351224)
Financial contagion hardly bitten

(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:45 - ID#410114)

You said the next two weeks in Silver is important, in what way?

If silver goes up in the next two weeks what does that imply for the next two weeks?

If silver goes down in the next two weeks what does that imply for the next two weeks?

Lurker 777
(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:53 - ID#317247)
Only $7 more dollars to the down side and will be looking for more Phillies.I think I will program your Phone # into the phone for speed dial. Dont want to miss this one! I will try to E-Mail you later. How low for silver?

Lurker 777
(Mon Feb 23 1998 09:55 - ID#317247)
Good call!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 10:08 - ID#340459)
Folks, It is just a knee jerk reaction now, if you want out of PM's wait for a couple of days..

(Mon Feb 23 1998 10:08 - ID#330175)
MoReGoLd--------------and go "North"
Swan's Island Maine ain't exactly south~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Mon Feb 23 1998 10:14 - ID#78116)
Could that number be the U.S. Federal Deficit by chance?

Crystal Ball
(Mon Feb 23 1998 10:15 - ID#287367)
@ EB
Good call on gold- same as mine ;- ) Lookin for $385-$390 gold and $5.50-$5.75 silver. See
Triple top in $Indu on 5 min chart on open 2/17, 2/19, and today?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 10:16 - ID#78116)
Back From Asia.... BUY IT NOW
I have been in Asia for the past five weeks, mostly business, a little vacation.

There is only one word to describe the financial opportunity in Asia and thats: BUY.

The values in that part of the world are the likes we will not see again in our life times.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 10:20 - ID#78116)
Gold and Silver
I am still short gold stocks, looking for a breakdown this time through 290.

I am really sorry I was not in a position to act when silver was above $7 an oz. Warren Buffet must have access to a much better quality of hallucinagen than the rest of us to make the kind of commitment he has to silver. There is no way he can unwind his position. Silver will become his tar baby.

Gotta run

The Hatt
(Mon Feb 23 1998 10:24 - ID#294232)
The Greed Will Get The Shorters!!!!!!!
It never fails, many shorters would have gladly covered at $294.00 a week ago, yet any weakness seems to draw visions of blood in the streets! War or no war, one must remember Gold always has a means of catching everyone off side. I am positioned as we speak so as not to get caught chasing the market like a rabid dog. Waiting for the turn,PATIENTLY!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 10:37 - ID#31868)
The Hatt
I agree 100% -

(Mon Feb 23 1998 10:48 - ID#23782)
Asia is a big place. Can you be more specific. Or can we just throw darts?

The Hatt
(Mon Feb 23 1998 10:51 - ID#294232)
Talking Heads On CNBC Called For A 100 PT Rise in The DOW!!!!
They were cheerfully calling for a hundred point rise in the Dow One hour ago and now I see red, whats up? Could it be that the deal is not a deal at all and UN is simply stalling for more time? After all who out there would trust S.H.? The market is telling us there is trouble brewing! Let us all wait and see.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 10:55 - ID#22956)
Welcome Back

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 10:56 - ID#403159)
BULL !!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:00 - ID#22956)
profit taking
the market tells me Profit Taking. Yes, let us all wait and see. float down the street ( damnable Christ-Child )

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:00 - ID#411149)
Heck you would think the DOW would be up at least 300 pts
on this PRACE news. What's the matter out there.

Tally Ho

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:01 - ID#333131)
Donald if you're out there.
Interesting time right here for the Dow/Gold ratio. Dancing up over and around 28.61. Historical day and week in the making either way.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:05 - ID#22956)
I see no red here anyway...(but wait!)...
where is the red?
oh, here it the metals be in the black

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:08 - ID#269409)
@ Karlito
We've seen Gold's low already at $280 which will hold once again should we get there. Buffet has no intention of unwinding his position in silver. The long term squeeze in the years ahead are what he's looking at, not the short term artifical squueze we saw in the past 2 months. If you're right about Asia, this will be bullish for silver, not bearish. Asia may have seen it's worst, but the trickle down effects will hit corporate earnings reports in the next few quarters and when they do, the DOW will take some hits. When that occurs, I'll be averaging back in.

Paging RJ...what the bloddy @#$^& is going on with Platinum? Just sympathetic drop to the drubbing in the other metals?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:16 - ID#57232)
Buying opportunity is Asia?
Karlito 99: I am thinking the same thing. However, do you think it makes sense when China has not yet devalued, and Japan is teetering on the brink? Why don't you tell us how each of these questions are resolved in your mind. I can't tell if Hashimoto has control of the Japanese bureaucracy, or whether it has conttol of him!
Any new info on the currency basket issue? And -- just how much of the $1 trillion debt ( +/-several billion ) is going to be paid back to the creditors?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:16 - ID#25588)
Silver, Gold, ABX
March Silver is in either c wave of 4 or an a wave of wave 2. From a trading point of view makes little difference. Try buying March or May Silver under 6.30 no stop, if not in profits by the end of the day sell out, tomorrow place a stop under today's low. Obj. 6.80+ before a further decline to 5.50. April gold will be down to 275 within 6 weeks. Buy ABX under 15 on an intra day spike down.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:20 - ID#411149)
Can't spell, try again - PEACE BREAKIN OUT??? Bull!

RUMOR RUMOR RUMOR - again that Rubin issa gona resign.
Dollar down, bonds only up 2 ticks. Somethin issa happening
in the STINK rooms. S--T issa gona hit the FAN.

tally ho

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:20 - ID#269191)
Karlito: nice to know you're still shorting.
Still buying everything you sell. Thanks again for the bargain

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:29 - ID#403277)
All: Does anybody have anything to say about Eaglecrest?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:42 - ID#258427)
SSC earning report out
Not as good as I had expected...4th qtr loss of .01 per share vs .03 prev year...average 5.45/oz selling 6.45 would be profitable?? How about some expert comment

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:44 - ID#153102)
Flash Forward
Gold - What's It Good For
Neuters News Service
May 12, 1998

Gold today was trading in London at $202.00. What's the future for the once glorious metal. John Wrightman, director of the Future Trends Consortium, a UK Consultancy, was not optimistic. "Gold is too heavy for the modern world. It's not the trendy thing in jewelry anymore. And, it has no industrial or other use to speak of. We are advising our clients to expect more weakness in this market." No figures were available on the ounces of gold traded today, but a brokerage source stated the market was "quiet".

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:50 - ID#31868)
and you folks are worried about money? Hmmmmmmmm
Henry Kissinger gave an address to the Bilderberger organization meeting at Evian, France, on May 21, 1991. As transcribed from a tape recording made by one of the Swiss delegates, he said:

"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will willingly be relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by their world government."

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:51 - ID#269409)
Sunshine Mining, latest news
Posted another loss for quarter. Tripled production past 2 years, expect to triple production again over next two. Expecting higher silver prices ahead in a tightening supply market. ( But with many other mines doing the same, will this be the case? )

(Mon Feb 23 1998 11:53 - ID#31868)
silver you say
Buy First Silver Reserve and Clifton Mining and wait for the pressure cooker - yes, yes, yes!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:02 - ID#7568)

A few minutes back, the open interest numbers were released by the comex for Friday end of day. March silver still has about 42,000 contracts open or 210,000,000 ounces. First notice day is Friday. The price of silver firmed on the back of this release.

The 'norm' for the silver contract has been between 15 - 20 thousand contracts open going into FND. This past Friday the open interest declined by about 4000 contracts. We are getting late in the game for the futures only players to be sticking around.

The silver market, as RJ has repeatedly pointed out, is one of the most gamed markets in the world. All manner of deception is the rule. Keeping this in mind I cannot help but wonder if we are witnessing an interesting event. It is quite possible that we are about to see the second silver squeeze. The first squeeze was a squeeze in the cash market against WB's delivery requirements. The second one may be in futures market.

A few weeks back when we were at the height of the cash market squeeze, the March EFP got to something around 20 - 25 cents. For a holder of physical silver this was an enormous incentive to loan metal to the market. One of ways this may have been done would be to sell the cash metal in London and become a holder of March silver in New York. If this was the case, then there may be large March longs who intend to stand for delivery, to replace the silver which they sold in London.

With Comex inventories as low as they are, it could get rather exciting.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:02 - ID#153102)
I spoof posted and I think you did, too, unless you can name the delegate who made the recording.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:03 - ID#252127)
Bad sign

Sunshine didn't publish its cash cost of silver for this last quarter and investors can't compare it with last quarters costs, which dropped considerably. I assume costs went up.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:05 - ID#31868)
You tell me, do you think American troops would round up the people?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:08 - ID#7568)

I did some investigation this company about a year back and almost got into a private placement. Thankfully I did not. One of the reasons that I backed out was that I became uncomfortable with the veracity of some items that were related to me.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:09 - ID#22956)
poorboys, I hope you closed out your DM, SF short positions before you went on holiday......whoa ( ! ) ...

so, is written in stone that gold cannot, under no circumstance, will never ( this year ) , no way-no how, go under 280?? hmmmmmmm..... and you are sure of this? Have you let ALL the traders around the world know this? All of 'em??...better get on the 'blower'... be relieved...cause the great lgb has spoken

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:10 - ID#153102)
Like everything else it seems like nowadays, it depends.

A GoldTrader
(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:12 - ID#21455)
China Investments
Aloha Karlito99, Its nice to see a person with vision. The potential
of China coming into the next century cannot be overstated. The
oversold Asian markets, seems to me the time is right to accumulate
closed end funds selling at discounts like Tempelton Dragon or
Jardine Fleming. Troubles outside of China have brought the prices
down not internal troubles. Imagine owning shares in a company
that has the exclusive rights to bottle Coca Cola in a large section of
mainland China.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:17 - ID#26793)
Just got here. Only had a chance to lurk for a few minutes earlier. The Dow started out strong for only a half hour or so. If it fails this will be the fourth attempt to break the 1966 high and not make it. I will be impressed.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:18 - ID#57232)
Clinton Insiders -- distancing themselves
All: One of us posted an Electronic Paragraph article about Vernon Jordan leaking information that Clinton lied to him about the Monica L. affair. Clinton was reported as reclusive. I got the same message from an article in the morning paper, that his weekend Pentagon speech about the Iraq crisis was unspirited -- very unlike someone who is ready to punish someone producing WMD. Haggis mentioned that he thought BC was being blackmailed --. Perhaps what Haggis notes is actually 'paralysis' due to BC not knowing how to defend himself.
And why aren't the equity markets soaring? The answer is uncertainty -- lack of leadership. The US equity markets may yet soar, but the xxxgate crisis is heating up -- and this time BC does not seem to be willing to fight the crisis looming before him. The only remaining question is whether the real force behind the scenes -- Hillary -- will be neutralized by the recent declaration that Jim Guy Tucker will tell all.
Interesting times -- not a good time to be bullish in the US equity markets.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:19 - ID#31868)
source of chest pains, could not help myself
Firefighters hoist 800-lb man from house

Copyright  1998
Copyright  1998 The Associated Press

CLEVELAND ( February 23, 1998 11:36 a.m. EST ) -- It took a fire department crew seven hours to pull an 800-pound man out of his basement and get him to a hospital.

Rescuers were called early Saturday to the home of George Tomaselli, 47, after he complained of chest pains.

Firefighters built a wooden ramp on stairs leading to the basement and placed a board under his mattress. A rope hoist was used to drag the mattress up the stairs and a motorized lift hoisted the mattress onto a flatbed truck.

Tomaselli was conscious and talking to firefighters. A doctor and a nurse were on the scene to provide advice. He was taken to MetroHealth Medical Center, where doctors were trying to determine the source of his chest pain.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:21 - ID#234311)
Kissinger, Bilderbergers, and other grave threats
Former president George Bush, from a tape made secretly by a man hiding above the ceiling tiles in a Trilateralist meeting in Athens, Greece, August 27th, 1997:

"All that is needed is to further drive down the gold price until there is no alternative but to accept the fiat monetary system as the true 'standard'. Once the outmoded belief in 'tangible value' is sufficiently diminished, then no fiat currency will be able to set a value above another, and the last hurdle will be clear for dissolving national boundaries. At that point, the world's govenmental systems will be ripe for the toppling."

The forgoing is an absolute fraud, composed totally from my vivid imagination in the past ten minutes. But even with this plain and obvious disclaimer, some idiot out there will believe it, not just in spite of the fact that there is no corroborating evidence, but indeed BECAUSE there is no corroborating evidence. That is the insidious nature of conspiracy theories -- they thrive on total ignorance. Deciding your financial or political moves on such pseudo-information is about as intelligent as selecting your brain surgeon from the names of doctors mentioned in the National Enquirer.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:21 - ID#7568)
@D.A. (silver) ID#7568:
Interesting observations. Maybe Gold being pressured to make silver covering easier?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:23 - ID#26793)
@A. Goose, SDRer
I have the latest issue of Coin World and still no offers of Gold Dinars from 1992. However, there is an ad for what claim to be authentic Gold Dinars issued by Sultan Ibrahim between 1059 and 1098AD. There are described as 4.5 grams of 10 carat gold. Is that the composition of the new gold dinar? These are selling for $77 ( plus shipping ) each and are described as VF to EF with crude and irregular planchets.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:24 - ID#28593)
All: Quick info comment--
There is reason to believe that, since the 1992 reintroduction of gold/silver coinage of Islam, that Zakat payments ( tithe ) are again as follows" Shaykh Muhammad Illish ( 1802-1881 ) who said: if you were to pay zakat with paper-money, only its value as mercandise ( dayn ) , that is, only its value as PAPER can be accepted. "Zakat cannot be paid with a promise of payment."
Therefore, since 1992 ( at least ) zakat has been paid in gold or silver by faithful Moselms. At even 1/4 ounce per Moselm, doesn't that start to add up to an incredible amount of gold? With NO big sales, no acquisition peaks, just little people paying in little amounts over time.

Reminds one of how Bank of America started: pennies put into the safe-keeping of a trustworthy 'neighbor'...

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:24 - ID#7568)
LGB, Karlito, APH, DEJ, JTF, EB, RJ, Mike S, Tol1, Strad, Carl and anyone else who has posted recently that doesn't have a bit of nostalgia for the good old days of the Third Reich thank you. You have reaffirmed some bit of my faith in fellow man. In reviewing the weekends posts I was begining to think that Bart should change the DNS to

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:29 - ID#153102)
You tell'em like it is. Nobody in government never ever conspires. They always keep their promises and would not speak a lie. Comspiracies are what people OUTSIDE government engage in. Just look who gets prosecuted. What more proof does a rational person need ?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:29 - ID#7568)

I don't really think that the two are very connected at the moment. While there is a fair bit of spread trading gold vs. silver, the size as it relates to the gold market is small. Gold looks like it is going to make the long slow bottom. This scenario is likely to see the demise of some big name gold companies. Own companies with positive cash flow or own the physical. Some of the others might be roadkill.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:30 - ID#28593)
Donald--That is dog-gone CLOSE!
Acccording to Islamic Law...
The Islamic Dinar is a specific weight of gold equivalent to 4.3 grammes.

The Islamic Dirham is a specific weight of silver equivalent to 3.0 grammes.

Umar Ibn al-Khattab established the known standard relationship between them based on their weights: "7 dinars must be equivalent to 10 dirhams."

Well, shall we snap up the $77 dinars? At least we will be able to
shop at Moselm stores!

Great find never disappoint either! {:- )

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:35 - ID#31868)
You are way too easy. Tell me, is the following true or false.

"Today, in front of the whole world President Clinton of the United States told everyone that the economic problems in Asia were just a glitch and he had absolute faith that things would be quickly resolved and back to normal in no time."

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:35 - ID#187218)
The "... an absolute fraud... " line was my favorite,,,

,.,.,. build those revenues and get that 2000 bug,,,, please!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:37 - ID#153102)
It seems to me there would be enormous demand in the Islamic Republic of Iran for gold for tithes and there would be no sign of this on the market board because of the sanctions in place.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:39 - ID#28593)
Donald--quick question re: no gold dinars 1992
Wouldn't we expect all of the coins to be distributed within
the Islamic community? That in and of itself would absorb a LOT of coinage!
Really must run. bbl

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:39 - ID#26793)
Five ways to see the demise of the Dow

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:41 - ID#28593)
Mozel--we must be plugged into the same outlet!
I feel like your very faint echo {:- )

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:43 - ID#234311)
Shades of Pinky and the Brain
Inept? Yes. Liars? Yes. Megalomaniacs? Double yes. Conspirators involved in deep, secret plots to fold all world sovereignties into a single world govenment bent on enslaving and oppressing all of humanity? No. Why would power-mongering demagogues be willing to cede whatever power they have to be underlings in the new world order? Can you see Saddam Hussein, or Khadaffy, or Castro as part of a grand strategy to take over the world like that? "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" ROFL.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:43 - ID#26793)
I just ordered one to have a look at it. When I read the size of the 1992 dinar was 23mm, almost the size of a quarter, it seemed large for the gold content. That must be the reason why.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:44 - ID#31868)
It was learned today that the American Eagle gold coin has become the least wanted gold coin in the world due to the US governments policies in every arena. Even the KRand of RSA never received this kind of treatment from buyers.

It was further reported that the US Mint had purchase Khoumeni coin dies from IRAN in a secret deal allowing IRAN heads of state to get American Cable Television.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:45 - ID#26793)
I have a friend who is an Afghani refugee. I will ask him if he knows.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:54 - ID#153102)
@SDRer @Y2KBug
@SDRer Mighty honored to be in your company.

@Y2KBug I posted last night how they do it. Bait with something for nothing, greenback benefits & hook with debt. I'll bet you are baited and hooked. Got a Social Security Number ? They baited and hooked every State in the United States in 1935-38. They baited & hooked South Korea and now those people expect to work for the IMF for the next three years. They baited and hooked Mexico and have 70% of the oil revenues.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 12:55 - ID#238295)
XAU not doing too badly today considering sharp drop in gold price. Odds are XAU will trough before bullion. Once XAU stops going down on soft bullion, a meaningful rally will be very close.

APH: $275 April gold very unlikely. If you wait for this magic number you may well miss the turn.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:02 - ID#234311)
Tolerant1, Mozel, Ladies and gentlemen
I believe that it was Socrates ( if not, then one of the great Greek philosopers of ancient times ) who said that the foundation of all knowledge are the three words "I don't know," fo only when one admits one's ignorance can he start on finding the answers.

Tolerant, I have no idea whether what you posted was a real quote, a paraphrase, or utter fiction. Therefore, I will not to presume to answer your question. It does seem like something the Oval Idiot would say, so it meets the plausibility test, but no more.

Anything is possible except skiing through a revolving door. The key word here is 'possible'. 'Provable' is what is needed, and these theories by their very nature are unprovable. To say that "Theory X cannot be disproved, therefore we must act on it as if it is true" is the sheerest of lunacies.

Besides, if there really is some large force ( shades of Star Wars ) conspiring as the theory goes, knowing about it will make no difference in our ability to change it -- the powers involved are too big to sway. We are inextricably caught in the vortex and our fates are sealed. "A dream that we all dream, and all dream alike, is not a dream, but reality." If our reality is really being shaped by forces beyond our control, then we must live in that reality. I ignore conspiracy theories, not because thay are over my head, but because they are beneath my contempt.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:05 - ID#153102)
Bet you don't ignore the IRS when they conspire to collect your portion of the debt.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:05 - ID#228100)
Anyone have the value of silver over the past 30-50 years?
I'm looking for monthly prices to compare to the price of gold.

It should be interesting to see how Clinton takes credit for the new "agreement" in the Middle East. In a few months, it should be even more interesting when Saddam changes his mind ( again ) about the inspections. Saddam didn't honor the 1991 agreement... why should he honor this one?

Every few months, just send the Navy, Air Force and the Marines back to the Middle East again. Scare Saddam again. Another "agreement" and victory for Clinton, without a war!

I suppose our service people have to be SOMEWHERE. And look at all of the frequent flyer miles they'll accumulate.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:05 - ID#289357)
@ mozel, SDRer, Donald re: Dinar

I emailed the Islamic Mint source yesterday, with a request for sources of the new Dinar in the USA. ( Perhaps others did as well ) .

No response as yet.

However, there are some of the ( old ) gold Dinar coins in the Ebay web auction, under non-US coins.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:07 - ID#17155)
There might be hope!!!
Supreme Court Lets Stand Ruby Ridge Ruling

"The agents argued that as law enforcement officers, they had immunity from claims that they gave false testimony.

The Ninth Circuit said that while immunity has been granted to officers who testify during the trial stage of a proceeding, this was a difference case. It held that the agents at Ruby Ridge functionally served as complaining witnesses who initiated Harris' prosecution and as such were not entitled to immunity for their false statements.

The court also said that the 13 defendants, working together, created special rules that required FBI agents to "shoot on sight" in order to "kill." The rules infringed on Harris' rights. The appeals court said there was no immunity for this as well or the fact that Harris was shot without warning while he was retreating. "

We talked about these subject last night. Yes, I know governments have done horrible things. By far, government is the leading cause of death in the world's history.

However, terror is only effective if you believe that it is effective. If you examine the fall of communism in Poland, for example, you will find out that as soon as the sporadic acts of resistance occurred, the fears started working the other way. On the day the Marshal Law was proclaimed officially and "dissidents" arrested, an eldery Polish officer took his ceremonial cavalry sword, walked to the first cop he saw and decapitated him. In other place, people on a bus took a cop's own gun and shot him with it. In still another, people threw out a cop out of a speeding train.

The moral to that story is the the storm trropers are only brave if there are a hundred of them against a single opponent. As soon as the terror starts working the other way, the fears among the "storm troopers" propagate just as quickly as they did before among their victims.

Now, US is nowhere near the situation in Poland I have descibed. The outbursts of terror against the government ocurred ONLY after there was no doubt in most people's minds that the government was a murdering tyrant.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:12 - ID#153102)
Remember Waco

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:14 - ID#410114)
Clinton & black mail
The Russians probably still have Clinton's KGB files from when Clinton was in Moscow protesting the United States during his college years

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:15 - ID#252127)

Would a term such as 4.3 grams of 10 carat gold coin mean
4.3 x 10/24 =1.88 grams of gold; or that it has 4.3 grams of gold contained in its total weight of about 10.3 grams?

Spud Master
(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:17 - ID#273112)
Slap, slap...
Y2KBug, you Felix Dershinkyette wannbe, you wrote :

"Why would power-mongering demagogues be willing to cede whatever power they have to be underlings in the new world order?"

Please consider that this thing happens daily, in the small, inside most countries, states, counties, cities ... your logic of why it should prevail in the large is flawed - but I will help you out anyway.

Heretofore, nationalistic forces ( call it 'racist' if you like ) prevented state-sized consolidation. I.e. the French want to be ruled by French. Catholics by catholics, etc.

The crushing of nationalistic/religious forces is the only impediment to consolidating world governments into One. If you don't think this can happen, I offer the case of Louis 13 & his Wiley Coyote Cardinal: they neutered their various Barons and Counts by offering them the cushy court existence of Versailles. The French nobility willing surrendered regional power for the perception of working in the Versaillian FWO ( French World Order ) of the time.

The same merde is being done with the EU: offer the venal, corrupt bureacrats of the various Eurpean states cushy existences in a European Congress at Strausburg, or the courts at the Hauge or Belgium and they will readily sell-out their native lands. To their minds they are trading UP in power.

You can also see the NWO effecting this through other means - trivializing/demonizing religions one way, the end of which is to make us all functional atheists, or rather devotes to the religon which is The State - religion ALWAYS being an impediment to State control. Face it, 'Humanism' is the state religion of many Western governments - although in keeping with Orwell, I call it State-Worship ( or is it State-Whoreship? ) . Having broken down religious differences eases world consolidation.

I suppose this is one reason so-called militant Islam is such a baddy to the NWO: they are a direct competitor to the atheistic NWO - their idea is a world-wide Islamic state - called the IWO ( Islamic World Order ) .

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:19 - ID#28594)
Y2K--Hi, enjoy your posts--Would you please provide the url
for the site with the proof of Darwin's Theory? Thanks.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:21 - ID#234311)
Folks, I apologize.
Those of you who come here for info of interest to gold and gold investments, I am sorry for starting this argument re: conspiracies. I am obviously going to convince no one here, especially those who are caught up in following the Trilateralists/Bildebergers/CFR/ ( insert favorite lunatic idea here ) .

And those who may infer from my Y2K moniker that I myself am involved in a conspiracy theory, I ask you to search the mainstream news services for info on Y2K, and compare the number of hits you get to a similar search on 'Bilderbergers'. Whatever you do, do your own research, and don't believe stuff you see and hear from unknown and anonynous sources, especially on the internet.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:24 - ID#234311)
I am a creationist. See the works of Duane Gish and Henry Morris. Evolution is at least as much an article of faith as is creationism.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:28 - ID#234311)
@Spud Master, I plead ignorance.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:28 - ID#228100)
Petronius - Ruby Ridge post
Thanks for the post. It's refreshing to see our government admit a huge mistake.

You would think that the FBI would have higher priority people than Randy Weaver. When you can go to virtually ANY city and buy heroin on the street, the FBI sends out a 50 person SWAT team to arrest a guy ( decorated veteran, no criminal history ) for selling a shotgun with a barrel that was 1/2" too short.

Good old Andy Griffith would have known how to arrest Randy Weaver!

Spud Master
(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:28 - ID#273112)
Petronious - careful!
For applauding the rule of law ( i.e. the Supreme Court Ruby Ridge Ruling today ) you are likely to be tarred with various racist tags by LGB, Karlito97, and Y2KBug. Doesn't matter that an out of control goverment had a sniper murder a mother holding a child in cold blood. To their minds the ends justify the means; their heros are men like Felix Dershinsky of the Cheka, Stalin, Kim Ill Sung, Castro etc.

The abhorent & idiot KKK morons have never come remotely close to the vast murders, torture and abuse of civil rights as the above mentioned monsters - but for some unknown reason, our local Kitco liberals can only parrot the pablum fed to them by the boob-tube. Why is that? Is it because they can no longer think for themselves?

Come now, Y2kBug, do you REALLY believe the postings this weekend were 'KKK-like'? ( mind you, there were some really vapid & silly astrology related posts )

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:29 - ID#234311)
@Spud Master, I plead ignorance
Who is Felix Dershinkyette?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:30 - ID#345176)
@ Y2KBug

What is a "creationist" ? - I couldn't find this word in Webster's.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:30 - ID#28585)
With gold trashing like trailer parks in a tornado, there are bound to be more gold company bankruptcies soon...most likely include ECO,RYO, TVX, and KGC. All companies that, in the face of repeated warnings, failed to cut back production and exploration years ago, contributing to an enormous glut in the metal today.

No war means gold has short-term downside potential to 230-250 an ounce by April...unless panic sets in...then 200-210 is a good April target.

Silver priced way too high...fundamentals don't support it whatsoever!! There's 90 million ounces of silver collecting dust at the COMEX and unless Buffett wants to buy it, nobody else could possibly be interested. Buffett just jerking everybody off, placing a mere 2% of his portfolio in the ridiculously over-valued metal.

Time to go long in the Holy DOW...feel the DOW is truly an Amazing Grace!!

There's Intel, Microsoft, Disney, Coke, IBM, Chase, Merrill, ...the sure thing stocks that NEVER FALL!!! Price earnings ratios of 40 and higher do not matter when you consider that Americans are pouring all their available cash into stocks.

When P/E's reach 100 or higher, it might be time to consider taking some profits.

Until then, get down on your knees before the Holy Power of the Almighty DOW!!!!

Glad to see Karlito's back ( a true disciple of DOW POWER ) bringing much needed common sense back to this forum.

Spud Master
(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:31 - ID#273112)
And furthermore
I am incensed by your demeaning statements concerning 'conspiracies'. Hrumpph! Hillary and I are going to the corner bistro to have a cup of ginger tea, Blakemores Digestive Biscuits and discuss the vast Right Wing Republican conspiracy! ( "There, there Spud ... Y2KBug is just part of the Conspiracy. He may even be an alien, planning your aduction" )

Spud Master
(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:33 - ID#273112)
for Y2KBug

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:37 - ID#234311)
Whoa! Waitaminit!
Spud Master: I haven't called anyone KKK-like on any of my posts ever! Are you confusing me with someone else? I am definitely for the rule of law, I think what happened at Waco and Ruby Ridge was deplorable, who are you confusing me with???

Myrmidon: One who believes that the world was created by a supernatual force or being, rather than having evolved naturally. I am a Christian, and therefore believe that that supernatual being was the God of the Bible, but creationism is not exclusive to Christians.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:43 - ID#252127)

Huge element of truth of the second paragraph of your most recent post.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:44 - ID#255284)
And Bart thinks people will pay for this crap?
Oh, Really good idea!
Let's talk about creationism, let's talk about kkk, let's talk about Clinton's sex life, waco & Ruby Hill, let's talk about anything execept 7000 tonnes of gold, eh Junior?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:44 - ID#28585)
The strong raging bull...the Holy Dow Power spells doom and disaster for gold and silver.

Bail out while you still can!!!!

Lurker 777
(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:45 - ID#317247)
RE: No war means gold has short-term downside potential to 230-250 an ounce by April...unless panic sets in...then 200-210 is a good April target.

Why do you see any support at $200?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:46 - ID#28593)
Y2K, teasing aside (not teasing--I DO enjoy your posts)

From the Ancients--well, two of them--we have parameters within which we may operate, with reason:

Aristotle--Better the impossible probable than the improbable possible...

Plato--Evil things happen when good men do nothing.

It is quite reasonable that your standards ask/require the 'provable':
were that not the case, we would not be communicating at this moment!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:47 - ID#210253)
Cardinal Richelieu

Spirituality notwithstanding, the guy did accomplish what he set out to do.

Cardinal Richelieu was born Armand Jean du Plessis in Paris on September 9, 1585. He took the name Richelieu from the name of his family's estate. In 1601 he became the Roman Catholic bishop of Loon, a city near La Rochelle in western France. Richelieu would rise from this provincial post to become head of France's royal council and prime minister of France in 1624.

When Richelieu rose to power France's King Louis XIII had not solidified his authority in France. A combination of political corruption, an independent nobility, and the power of a Protestant group called
the Huguenots, threatened the monarchy's rule. In 1627 Richelieu set out to secure the authority of the crown through force and political repression. By 1631 he had crushed Huguenot resistance, severely
punished nobles who plotted against the king, and replaced his enemies in the government. In addition,he expanded the king's authority in the provinces through the use of royal agents called intendants.

Cardinal Richelieu has been admired by many historians for his intelligence and energy. During his service as prime minister he helped France become the leading power in Europe. He supported the French navy and the establishment of French colonies in Africa and the Caribbean. Richelieu was also a great patron of the arts. He rebuilt the Sorbonne in Paris, supported promising writers and founded the French Academy.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:48 - ID#28585)
...the extent of the Holy Dow Power.

If the Holy Dow Power rages like a howling wind, then naturally, gold support at 200 will collapse.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:53 - ID#31868)
Why bother thinking about 7000 tons of gold. All we have to do is wait for Another to spitout the dolma grape leaves so he can tell all of us what gold will do and when, why and who is really in control of the worlds financial machine.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:56 - ID#22882)

Praise thee, Praise thee for your thankless task of helping the blind to see. AMEN, AMEN may the lord be with you.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:57 - ID#234311)
Never believe what you read here
You folks are merciless. Shamelessly jerking this poor neophyte around. May Y2K bring you 'interesting times'.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 13:59 - ID#28585)
...who believe in the heathen gold and silver.

They will be cast in the searing fires of hell and eternal damnation.


There are many wonderful DOW stocks to be purchased at reasonable P/E ratios of 40 and higher....Disney, Coke, IBM, Starwood, Heinz ...promise you all salvation and glory in the Kingdom of the Lord!!!!

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:02 - ID#403159)
SOLD OUT !! P.M. risk is for the highroller losers
EB, I'm your indicator. P.M.'s are dead.
Singing with Farfel. Back to real assets.
Real estate and paper. Good-bye P.M. 's
and especially to ANOTHER whom won't
be missed. Farfel back to you, SING IT.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:03 - ID#246224)
Interesting synopsis on Paper Money (historical) from PEI (includes US 'money')

Must admit its interesting. Certainly can't 'produce' gold or silver that way! Once you've got it, you've got it. Doesn't evaporate. Doesn't transmutate. Nice feel. Nice look.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:04 - ID#23782)
What are the laws regarding holding AU in NZ?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:04 - ID#246224)
Heavy Hitter

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:05 - ID#28585)



Amazing Grace, how sweet Thou are...
That saved a wretch like me....
I once was lost but now I'm found
Was blind but now I can see...

Well I once believed the Dow would fall..
I once believed there would be...
A Day of Reckoning in the U.S. dollar...
A financial catastrophe

For years I've believed in gold and silver...
Shunned paper made from a tree
I always felt precious metals would climb
And make me rich as a king..

And now I know deep in my heart
PM's aren't what they're cracked up to be
You can make so much more in the Standard & Poor
So I've gone long on the Dow, you see.

Amazing Grace, how sweet thou are
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost but now I'm found
Was blind but now I can see.

bernatz du ventadorm
(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:06 - ID#259191)
Settle down, people, it wasn't like we didn't tell you this was coming

Remember 277.25 +/- 5 dollars or 5 ( now 0 ) weeks?

You shouldn't have invested at 277.25 unless you
could hold out for 272.25 or the end of this week.

The bottom will be/was in at these levels and
time period.

Stop the fake gnashing of teeth.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:11 - ID#256254)
Date: Mon Feb 23 1998 12:23
Donald__A ( @A. Goose, SDRer ) ID#26793: and Silverbaron

I see that SDRer has responded to your question about the makeup of the Dinar.

I think want we want to find out is the status ( price etc. ) of the Dinars minted since 1992. I already find it quite amazing that we have been unable to uncover not only a source to buy some of these newly minted coins, but also what their prices might be. T the gold/oil linkage add in China, Russia and Japan mix carefully then let in simmer for _____ and what you get is a return to the gold standard. ( ??? )

aside: ANOTHER has kept his record. Everytime he posts Gold gets hammered.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:11 - ID#31868)
I don't think so at the end of this week or the next.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:12 - ID#28585)
Please come join us and invest your monies in the Holy Dow.

It's a Holy, Holy, Holy Power coming at cannot be denied!




(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:12 - ID#255284)
Land of the Tweee
NZ is a free country. There are no prohibitions on owning gold. No registration, no state interference. More than that! *All* goods and services are charged a 12.5% GST tax on retail purchase EXCEPT 9999 gold.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:13 - ID#269409)
@ Spud Master
Good thing I've mellowed or I'd be somewhat outraged by your outrageous statements Spud, that I'm somehow pro govt. in the Ruby Ridge case, a liberal left winger, all for big govt., parroting the party line, et al nonsense.

In reality I'm a conservative independant. ( who generally votes Republican except when an ultra liberal despot like Nixon runs ) I believe that individual constiutional rights and freedoms are extremely important and must be guarded zealously.

the fact that I have in the past, called whacko conspiracy nuts, ....well...whacko conspiracy nuts, has no bearing on the issue of big Govt. and Govt, abuse one way or the other.

If you truly believe in constitutional rights, you do nothing to further your credibility by presumptively smearing others with totally false statements re their points of view.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:18 - ID#269409)
@ SPud Master...clarificiation
However, just to be absolutely clear, unlike yourself, I do not believe the KKK deserves a defense. They are equally abhorrent with Stalin, Hitler, and all such rascist hatemongers. Happily, in our country, they'll be held down as the scum they are, both by rule of law, and the citizenry.

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:18 - ID#403159)
You keep holding it. Good luck spending it.
In 5 years what you have in your hand will
not have much purchasing power. P.M.'s
are lousey investments. There not even
good insurance.

Spud Master
(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:20 - ID#273112)
You are entirely correct; I am wrong.

It was D.A. who made the noisome reference to the moronic, paltry group of near-extinct morons who call themselves the 'kkk'.

You post was above his and I made the mistake of reading the wrong name.

D.A., please feel free to read-in your name in place of "Y2KBug" in my last three didactic dialectic diatribes.

Spud, guilty of shooting from the hip...

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:22 - ID#28585)
Open your deaf ears to the sound advice offerred by me, Brother Karlito and Brother Bernatz du Ventadorm.

You will NOT find your peace in gold nor silver.

You WILL only find salvation in the HOLY DOW!

It's a Holy Dow Power that's coming at you...and it cannot be denied!!

The Hatt
(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:25 - ID#294232)
Surprise Surprise Surprise................
Japan has been selling off U.S. Treasuries in todays market! Just the start of a massive blowoff of U.S. Treasuries. Lets hope Gold will be their alternative to the very very toppy U.S. Paper.

Spud Master
(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:25 - ID#273112)
I believe I have made it clear what I think of the kkk, LGB.

I find the Liberals greater offense at their consistent over-looking of THE REAL mass murders of human history - I understand your desire to deflect public consideration of the misery, mass murder, theft and suffering caused by your Communist and Socialst heros by tossing out in the pathetic little beer-swilling wanna-be thugs called the kkk. They would have to study for decades at the bloody feet of your Socialist abusers of civil and human rights to EVER come close.

Yes, if I associated with the ideology of those thugs, as you do, my dear LGB, I too would be ashamed.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:26 - ID#39971)
Hickory Dickory Dock
Three mice ran up the clock.

The clock struck one,

The other two escaped with minor injuries.

Tick Tock Tick Tock Tick Tock

haich tay tay pay slaish two daut thang dubya dubya dubya daut bubbais
goindownlakaninterninheat daut coum

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:28 - ID#269409)
@ Y2K Bug
You shouldn't apologize for your statements re the Trilateral, 5th column, Rotshchild/Bildeberger/Rockafeller, Jewish banker conspiracy nonsense.

All of that decades old, completely discredited nonsense, has been shown long ago to be the propaganda creation of rabid anti semites. The whole theory was indeed a major part of the "proof" given by Hitler's philosphocal backers as to why the Jews ahould be exterminated. It's not just an amusing "conspiracy theory" as so many others are. It's played a role in the worst holocaust of mankind and should be exposed for what it is. Whenever and wherever, the world's most ignorant, start spreading these theories once again, they should be held, deservedly, in contempt.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:29 - ID#243180)
I like the fact that you also have a sense of humor,,,

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:29 - ID#333131)
Just for the record, my friend. Your reference to Socrates as having said "I don't know." I think you must be referring to his reaction to the oracle of Delphi who had proclaimed him the wisest man in the world. He thought this must be wrong and sought to find someone wiser. He finally concluded that perhaps she was right in that he knew the extent of his ignorance. He certainly didn't think of himself as ignorant, else he certainly would not have resisted Crito's arguments to save his life. And he spent his last hours ( see the Phaedo ) discussing his unshakable belief in the immortalilty of the soul. Knowing the extent of one's ignorance isn't at all the same thing as pleading ignorance.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:31 - ID#28585)
...oh, when the Dow comes marching in...
I want to be in that number,
When the Dow comes marching in!!!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:32 - ID#424345)
Interesting Study In (apparent) Capitulation
Hmmm if someone was using Kitco sentiment as an indicator I wonder how they would rate the last couple of days... When Bernatz feels impelled to act as a voice of reason and restraint...

Capitulation ?
Utter Capitulation ?
Abject Capitulation ?
Complete Dissarray ?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:33 - ID#234311)
SDRer_A, re Plato
"Evil things happen when good men do nothing." Very true. The converse however is not true, "Evil things do not happen when good men do anything." The good men must be correctly informed and acting upon that correct information in order to keep from doing greater harm. I do not doubt the intentions of those who delve into the conspiratorial are good, and they believe they have our best interests in mind. However good intentions do not, unfortunately, insure good actions. I choose to focus my energies where I know I can do some good rather than jousting Quixotically with windmills.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:34 - ID#269409)
@ Spud master
Ahhh, now I, one of the world's most politically conservative, is called a "commie" who embraces Stalin. Sorry Spud, you just have no credibility at all and should be given no quarter. Shall I now tell you to pull off the white sheet and stop pretending to abhor the KKK? Or would that be an unfairly presumptious smear?

You sir, add nothing to a genuine debate. However, I'm glad we live in a place where even senseless, and untruthful name calling, is protected speech. Not sure I'd embrace hate speech as protected however.....

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:36 - ID#31868)
I think gold and silver will shine and in the very near future. No capitulation at Cuervo Central.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:38 - ID#153102)
@GFD The Bottom ~~~ of something~~~ is near.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:38 - ID#23782)

bernatz du ventadorm
(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:39 - ID#259191)
Once we get through this week, the bottom is in.

But like I said last time, how far it ends off the bottom in
one week or one month or six months is up to you.

If everyone scares people away from gold like they
have been doing for the last five weeks with their
requirements for what you must do to invest in gold
( hate your leaders, hope for war, denounce the
Dow, blame someone else ) , then it will just keep
sitting on its bottom. Bart's move to weed out the
pretenders from this site by forcing them to ante up
is a welcome move.

Wee Willie
(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:41 - ID#24437)

Quixotic 1
(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:42 - ID#48200)
RJ & Year2000 needs some "good" intel !!
Year2000, your 13:28

I think you have the story a little backwards! The government didn't admit a huge mistake; they were called on the carpet by supeona and indictment. After an exhaustive investigation, the conspiracy, crimes, corruption, cover-up and complete disregard for the rights of individuals have only just begun to come to light. IMHO, me thinks you needs a new source for some "good" intel.

Gold for the good guysGMJ

RJ..What happened to that silver and platinum spike up that was to happen this morning? I'm sure glad I didn't succumb to your sure thing over the weekend. HL.CA calls up 50% this morning, on the bid side.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:42 - ID#410198)
Things are a little heated here:"can't we all just get along"

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:46 - ID#31868)
Let's see now
Greenspan will open his pie hole tomorrow. He works for an organization which exists to take paper, print numbers on it and people call that money.

The US government is limited to coin silver and gold as the only money of the land.

The IRS works for the FED, neither are Federal agencies.

Some putz from the UN fixes everything in IRAQ, so why do we the American people need a President and Sec. of State.

Boy, just this part of the overall picture looks perfect. Things truly are wonderful.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:46 - ID#28585)
Heathen goldbug!!

The bottom will NOT be in this week! There is a horrible reckoning coming for the evil twins, gold and silver...

It will be a bottomless pit of despair and ruin!



(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:47 - ID#255217)
A true believer...
Brethren, I too am beginning to feel the Dow Power! I was blind and couldn't see! Now that mighty wave is descending upon me. Holy, holy, holy. Divest yourselves of the filthy golden lucre, cast out the silvery slime. Go Dow! Go Dow! Go Dow! Aaaahhhhh.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:48 - ID#234311)
My reference to Socrates was paraphrased out of my lack of source material in my cubicle. I believe you are right, and I stand corrected. I am one who is fairly cognizant of the extent of my ignorance, though I am no Socrates. Would that more here would admit same.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:51 - ID#243180)
Here's hoping that the POG/S goes much/much lower ,,,,,,,!!!!!!!!!,,,,, BUY-BUY-BUY

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:51 - ID#223146)
Delivery of Gold on Comex a Problem
Was notified by Broker, Lind Waldock & Co, that remaining delivery of feb gold future contracts have not materialized as of today. Last trading day for Feb is 2/25/98. He is asking their back office as to what to do. He indicates that this has not happened before. We have 17 more contracts due. Is anyone else taking delivery and having problems or know of someone else having this kind of problem.

Lurker 777
(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:52 - ID#317247)
Reading the charts.
Can anyone that uses charts as an indicator for future Gold prices please tell me where the next support level is. I am short gold now and need some guidance where to get out of my position and buy June 99 $310 calls. Thank You!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:52 - ID#20748)
Et tu HepMeMoney_Hmm ? The Ides of March again?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:53 - ID#267276)
"Why cant we all get along" Rodney King

(Mon Feb 23 1998 14:59 - ID#410198)
Thanks Digdeep I was thinking Eurobonics

Charles Keeling
(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:02 - ID#344225)
@ ALL Another great buying opportunity.......??????
And now comes, out of Winter Park Fla.
aa big spread by Mike Kosares called

"Worldwide demand continues to set records in
one of the biggest gold buyin sprees in history"

PERCEPTION: The Central Banks are going to
dump all their gold any day now.

REALITY: Of the Central Banks 30,000 ton
reserve, 8,000 belongs to the USA.
The IMF owns 2,200 tons, and
analysts say that 8,000 tons has
already been loaned out. The IMF
gold has been put on hold until at
least the year 2000. The US has
never expressed any intention of
selling or lending.

18,000 tons, or 60 % of the worlds
gold has been immobilized.

Of the remaining 12,000 tons, much
of that belongs to European
countries that "could" mobilize
a small portion, but wholesale
dumping is not in the cards says
Jean Pierre Patat of the French
Central Bank. Concern that the
CB'S will sell a large portion of
their gold reserves are devoid of

One story making the rounds in world's gold
trading rooms is that several major players
on the short side of the gold market are
getting desperate for physical gold to fill
their outstanding forward contracts.

At one point in November as the physical gold
market tightened, a trader for a major bank
attempted to plant rumors in the FINANCIAL
TIMES that the European Monetary Institute
was about to return 2,750 tons of gold to
participating CB'S. The TIMES quashed the
story when they discovered it to be a fabrica-
tion. Highly regarded gold analyst
Jeffrey Christian of New Yorks CPM group
said that the rumors were initially spread by
a major bullion bank said to have LARGE
NEGATIVE options positions on it's own account.

Two days later it was discovered thaat Swiss Bank
haad been fudging the numbers on it's gold
and silver holdings at the COMEX warehouse.
They had overextended thier position by
3.5 million silver ounces and over 30,000
gold ounces. COMEX swiftly removed their
warehouse credentials.

SWISS BANK is also remored to be one of the
biggest players on the SHORT side of the gold
market. LBMA reports that the daily average
turnover in the London gold market hit a
record in October--about 1,300 tons a day
changed hands--53% higher than in October.

The latest from venerable Harry Schultz, one
of the original gold bugs, now living in
WHAT CAUSES INFLATION. Starting in 1993-94
M3 has been rising sharply, with little or no
publicity. The first such rise in 20 years.

Arch Crawford of Crawford Perspectives
perennially one of the top timing investment
letters says: "One day we may wake up and
GOLD will be $1,000.00 + per ounce. That will
be after the Central Bankers are exhausted by
their selling orgies. ~~~~~~~Further
forwaard selling is unlikely because that
would only "lock in losses" for producers.
~~~~~"Central Banks, private sellers and
hedgers are not likely to be able to push
prices lower. This is the bottom. It is time
to go fishing.

35 TRILLION in derivative exposure may be the
achilles heel to many Wall Street trading firms.

From The Austiin Report: "Lets face it: gold is
a steal today and could prove to be the bargain
of the millennium. Only twice before has the
US stock market been so over valued compared to
the POG. ( SEE CHART ) both times a HUGE
correction occurred where gold went up and
stocks fell dramatically."

The CHART ( which I can't show here ) shows the
current high flying GOLD /DOW ratio and the
anticipated correction that will make every
GOLD BUG a very happy ( and wealthy ) person.

Not a lot new here KITKOITES. We have known
all along that rumor, mis-information, and
false stories along with the IMF lending and
producer forward selling was eating our lunch.

As I see it, the end of the game is at hand.
People are grabbing up bargains and those of
us who are contrary will see the great spike
up that we so deserve.

When gold hitsd $650.00 an ounce, I am
outtahere with half of my investments. When
it hits 750.00 I will sell half again. The
rest will ride until 9 out of 10 people are
bullish for gold.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:07 - ID#28585)
Remember, there is always the IMMACULATE NASDAQ.

It is a pure and wondrous index...and it too can bring you salvation!!!


Cast away the gold and silver relics of your past!!!

Embrace the heavenly wonders of God's most sanctified hi-tech inventions!!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:09 - ID#266105)

That inimitable rogue Dr Sam Johnson, of inimitable Johnsonese
( example, upon gentlelady/matron/patron query of gender difference;
"I can't conceive, Madam, can you?" ) -- noted that no man is
an hypocrite in his own pleasure. Another wiseguy advanced
that he that brings mirth to his fellow IS in Paradise.
On that note, may the angels of Farfel ( & Disney ) rain
pennies from heaven. Fellow Kitcoites, don your hardhats.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:11 - ID#288399)
Dow hovering around unchanged. Can hear the PPT breathing in the wings, getting ready to throw money....just waiting for our brilliant BJ Chamberlain to snatch defeat out of the jaws of "peace in our time" victory....

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:19 - ID#28585)
...between gold & silver...or the Holy Dow Power and the Immaculate Nasdaq.

It is a choice fraught with peril...because should you make the wrong choice, there are demons waiting in the nether regions of Hell who will swallow you up and gnash you to pieces of putrefied gristle.


(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:19 - ID#333131)
Latest info on Barrick's hedging program
I recieved a packet from Barrick today. Perhaps this all came out in the discussion here a few days ago, but my browser doesn't let me go back to anything, so here is the info that is different from Barrick's site info on the Web.
They say they have hedged 10 million ounces at $400 per ounce - 3 years production. They claim this position has a "mark to market gain" of $800 million ( Canadian? ) if it were closed out "today".

They claim this poition is a $400 billion asset which generates $200 million/year in interest income.

They say that their bank agreement ( deferred spot contract ) allows them to defer delivery up to 10 years and hence ( they say ) they can "always" defer delivery and sell production on the market if the market is higher than their contracted price.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:20 - ID#270315)
Charles Keeling
I agree 100%, you are thinking like the greats, WB, GS, and what you are saying is exactly what is going to happen give or take $ amounts.

I'll talk to you again in twelve months.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:20 - ID#246224)
Hush, now ! ! ! ... Look at Qestor's post (below).
Gold is not being delivered, friends. Someone else is having problems with delivery. COMEX is not delivering properly. Multiply this a few hundred times. The 'system' is jerking a bit. 144,000 eligible ounces of gold and no expeditious deliveries ??? FOCUS ON THIS. Remember the Swiss bank that uncerimoniously left the PM warehousing pool? Their vaults were totally "mis-managed"; multiplied thousands of ounces were simply not there. THINK ABOUT THIS.

Qestor - If I were you I'd be standing on someone's chest 'raising their consciousness', so to speak. This strikes at the core trust of the system. If they can not deliver when they contractually say they should, then you are hanging in the breeze. You are being manipulated. It seems to me that it is time to call the SEC and NYMEX people in on this. Enough heat should liberate your contracts. But if you wait to long you may be holding worthless paper.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:21 - ID#256254)
Date: Mon Feb 23 1998 14:51
Qestor@Observations ( Delivery of Gold on Comex a Problem ) ID#223146:
Was notified by Broker, Lind Waldock & Co, that remaining delivery of feb gold future contracts have not materialized as of today. Last trading day for Feb is 2/25/98.

Very interesting Questor, please keep us informed.

Spud Master
(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:23 - ID#273112)
I think my that Argentina, my Dominican girlfriend, would disagree with your silly attempts rascist comments LGB ( she'd have a huge laugh as well ) You do *try*, though.

Better stick with investing in SSC; it could use a little rocket-science at the moment ;; )

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:24 - ID#256254)
It takes only $43 million dollars ( at today's gold price ) to buy all the elligible gold stokcs in comex. Chump change in today's market.

Charles Keeling
(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:26 - ID#344225)
Brother--It is not too late for you to
be saved.

Just get down on your knees and repeat after

I am wallowing in sin and greed for paper and
I am hooked on the DOW. Forgive me for I
know not what I do. Deliver me from the
DEMON DOW and lead me on the bright and
shinny path of GOLD & SILVER before I spend
eternity in a bathroom paperd with worthless
stock certificates.

From henceforth I do promise to not follow
the lemmings into the hugh frothy waves of
downward spikes that will move the DOW to
unparralled lows in coming months.

Now--get up off your knees and buy

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:30 - ID#153102)
The decline of gold in 1996-97 was a sure thing for the insiders. But, people got greedy. Selling more gold in the futures market than you have or can produce is the same as fractional reserve banking wherein the bank issues more bank notes than it has gold in its vaults. It's banking caught again in its Original Sin. There is gonna be a bank run.

If the LME stays open, it seems to me that the price of gold has no theoretical ceiling.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:33 - ID#28585)
@KEELING...THE HOLY DOW POWER WILL SEND YOU REELING...'s force will knock you breathless to the ground and shake all the gold and silver from your pockets into the deep pits of Hell.

Do you doubt the Holy Dow Power?

Do you doubt its pure and sanctified disciples like Karlito and me???

Are you so cast in sin that you cannot see the Truth??

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:33 - ID#246224)
Chs Keeling
Good addition here. Thanks. Looks like we are seeing some trembling in the COMEX arena. Hope Qestor gets his gold out before things unwind. Also same for Tyler Rose ( is he the other one trying to put a contract out??? ) .

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:38 - ID#31868)
and so once again the problem
the USG is broke, has comitted treason, and the national debt, who owes it, the American people, oh no I say, the US government does as a private corporation.

Sell off the bastards assets and lets start the Wall St. and District of Columbia trials,

We The People


Wall St.


The District of Columbia

oh, and Camdesuss, we have not forgotten you and your's.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:43 - ID#284246)
APH - Silver 62 month cycle lows


Read with interest your post Feb 19 "Silver SnP". Re: your comment about silver "....which could go as low as 5.50 into the 62 month cycle lows".

As I am new to this stuff, could you please explain how you arrive at 5.50 and the the "62 month cycle"

Regards, Scarface.

Charles Keeling
(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:46 - ID#344225)
I am CONTRA---because I have seen great
bears that do NOT take prisoners. Unlike the
masses who follow the crowds and do only those
things that are politically correct, I follow
another path.


Many times I am alone as I move along this
path. It is the path of: BUY LOW/SELL HIGH.

It is the only path that should be followed
in a market that has lost it's reason.

Right now, the DOW is way to high to buy,
and PM'S are too low to ignore. The DOW/GOLD
ratio tells me so. LGB saw the light! Follow
in his footsteps. You will find me about 3
miles up the path, and great crowds of
lemmings will come behind you in 3-4 monnths
to carry you to great heights.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:49 - ID#348286)

MARKET UPDATE ( 02/23/98 ) AM-----Gold is down sharply this morning on lessening of tensions in Iraq ( at least for the moment ) and in advance of the upcoming G-7 meeting in London. The big story in the world of money and investments continues to be the long-distance sniping between the United States and Japan in advance of G-7. Japan has indicated that a yen-based Asian currency might be a necessity in the wake of the Asian crisis. Europe continues on a track toward centralization, a common central bank and a common currency. Both developments could spell trouble for the dollar and the U.S. economy down the road as major economies both to the East and West of the U.S. shed the dollar and attempt to find value as they move from a dollar reserve system to one based on either the yen or the euro. The Euro will be 5% to 25% backed by gold. No public discussion has taken place on what the "new" yen would look like as a reserve currency. News is skimpy this morning with the exception of "the deal" cooked up between Hussein and Annan -- America it seems has veto power here. Note that no public pronouncements have been made on the make up of the inspection teams. This, of course, was Hussein's big hang-up. He wanted Americans off the teams to be replaced by more lenient inspectors. This in turn precipitated the big, costly build-up. Also when you get over the euphoria of a seeming compromise, keep in mind that Hussein has a history of breaking agreements and the Annon accord might be nothing more than buying time. My guess: This thing is not going to fly unless the U.S. wants it to -- if Clinton wants a graceful out this could be it. If not we could be talking war again by the end of the week. We shall see what happens. We were unable to find anything substantive on why gold went down $5 this AM except perhaps an emotional reaction to the Annan accord. The dollar is also down. So are stocks. We will keep an eye on things as the day goes on and the volume builds -- then we will see if this gold downtrend is for real or not. Our guess is that gold will come back by day's end. Fundamentally, there are still quite a few short sellers out there looking to unwind their hedges and this is likely to put a floor in the market at this level. No guarantees of course, just a hunch. Have a good one, fellow goldmeisters. We will update if anything happens, or if we find out why gold dumped this morning.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:50 - ID#365216)
Will y2k realization cause a bank run in 1999?
Once the public is told the truth about Y2K problem and the resultant
chaos, will there be a run on the banks, grocery stores, PMs,
and other hard assets. If there is even a chance that my asset
sheet on some computer could be wiped slick, you can be damn
sure I'll be in line at the bank with my wheelburrow. HOW

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:50 - ID#246224)
"If year 2000 issues are not adequately addressed,
key automated bank systems affecting TRILLIONS of US$ are subject to serious consequences." - Jack Brock Government Accounting Office before Senate Y2000 commitee last week ( This in relation to the FDIC's liabilities in the situation. )

Wonder what "serious consequences" he's thinking about?

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:52 - ID#403159)
There is plenty of gold to go around. There
is no problem with deliveries. You can buy
and get delivered with as much gold as
you like. Whats all the noise about.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:53 - ID#359316)
Old Mother Hubbard went to Comex
Date: Mon Feb 23 1998 14:51
Qestor@Observations ( Delivery of Gold on Comex a Problem ) ID#223146:
Was notified by Broker, Lind Waldock & Co, that remaining delivery of
feb gold future contracts have not materialized as of today.
Last trading day for Feb is 2/25/98.

Does that mean there are 2 days left for them to come up with the goods?
Let us "think long and hard on this". Praise be to Jah Rastafari that I am 100% delivered.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:54 - ID#28585)
How can you doubt the DOW POWER and the IMMACULATE NASDAQ???

They are raging bulls that cannot be tamed...

Whereas He has rendered His judgement upon gold and silver...they are doomed relics of the past consigned to the eternal fires of Hell.

Forget about price/earnings ratios and other heathen measurements of value...they are mere human measurments of the Immeasurable and Divine Dow Power!



(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:59 - ID#269409)
@ Allen
Re your 15:20. one might wonder about the veracity of the reported inventories. To whom are these folks accountable who do the reporting? Do you know ( or anyone out there ) , whether there are CFCT sanctions for mis-reporting, or some European CFTC counerpart to whom those folks are accountable when they report?

Also, I wonder whether changes will occur in metals trading re the position of the LBMA once the EU is established?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 15:59 - ID#401460)

Did you step on a tack or what?


Charles Keeling
(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:01 - ID#344225)
PLATINUM. But FIRE certainly does a good
job in the utter destruction of paper.

Quick! Dump the paper and go for the Gold
because: "I SMELL SMOKE".

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:01 - ID#153102)
I think the government classified WWII as a "serious consequence".

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:02 - ID#57232)
See the light?
Farfel: Now that you have been converted, and you are now pro-DOW, I think we can safely conclude that gold has bottomed. Thanks for being the contrary indicator.
Seriously, I hope you are alright, and not alone. I am getting a little concerned about your mental status. Are you with friends?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:06 - ID#345176)

Does a leopard loses its spots and a tiger its stripes?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:06 - ID#269409)
@ GoldBugs...unfortunately, today's Saddam/Iraq deal. bullish
This minor dip down in POG means nothing. Saddam has cleverly dodged the bullet yet again, by making promises and commitments which he will fail to keep. Now that the U.S been effectively neutered in this matter, by the failed foreign policy of an ammorla president, Saddam will become more and more bold.

Eventually, this will lead to further buildup of Saddam's military and WMD's. Eventually we'll see a terrible conflagaration in the middle East, initiated by, or participated in by Saddam. Unfortunately, those who are long term bullish on Gold, will see it rise someday, due to mass destruction and loss of life.

Does the name "Neville Chamberlin" ring any bells? I was not a strong advocate for senseless bombing, without a well defined purpose and mission, with a reasonable chance to succeed. However, this complete capitulation on the part of the U.S., can only mean future misery for many in the middle East.

Israel....take heed. Danger lies ahead as is predicted in the prohecies.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:11 - ID#28585)
And forget the meaningless emptiness of gold and silver.

A tree is a mighty, Godly thing and produces valuable paper. Upon such precious paper, our sacred government prints numbers that enhance the value of such paper even more.

Whereas a mine is a muddy, dirty, and dusty place and produces worthless gold and silver.

Do you doubt that paper holds greater value than the despicable gold and silver product of mud and dirt?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:13 - ID#57232)
Fractional Reserve Banking
mozel: I'd like to complement you on your insight. I think your reference to the days when private banks issued 'paper' based on how much gold and silver they had is highly appropriate to the current scenario, just like what is happening at COMEX and possibly LBMA.
I am no historian of the 'gold old days' when banks issued more 'paper' than they had gold or silver to back up, and went bankrupt. But, I think this is what is happening right now -- the physical gold and silver the CB's thought they had is not what they actually have now.
Eventually this musical chairs charade will end, and someone will find out that there is no place to sit down.
I hoping that the discovery process will happen slowly enough that the gold bug Tsunami ( as we call it ) will rise out of the depths, and we little gold bugs can ride the gold stock wave on the way up -- and bail out before the equity crash. We will make even more on gold, gold stocks one year or more after the crash ( if we have one ) .

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:16 - ID#31868)
on farfel
In the immortal words of the o'tay master Buckwheat;

"everything contains its opposite"

Yo Buckwheat, its your turn to bat!


Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:17 - ID#403159)
He stands by it and will die for it. Singing
and carrying on to the Dow gains ahead.
FOR DUMMIES. The book is about
a thick as a menu and they claim
any moran can buy P.M.'s. As
you get through it and invest
they claim you will have all
the new qualities of claiming
to be a dummie and feel like one.
As the years roll on you will feel
more amd more like a dummie and
at the very end, well most of them
blow their brains out all over the place.
Get yours today at any book store
near you.

Lurker 777
(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:18 - ID#317247)
All talk and no action?
I wander how much people here at Kitco invest in Gold? Are most here just to chat or are you heavily invested in PMs? It doesn't matter how much money you make or invest but it would be interesting to see what percentage of your Net worth is invested.

This is not a game and I take it very seriously. I will have over 50% of my NET worth invested in Gold by 3/13/98 or sooner. If I make a mistake it will jeopardize my business heath and that could lead to bankruptcy. I believe everyone gets a ( chance of a lifetime ) opportunity and this is mine. My Investing in Gold has been a life changing experience and hopefully not a foolish one. I believe we are at the crossroads of Golds future and if the recent low of $278. is breached we run the high risk of gold becoming a Barbaric Metal of years gone bye. I want to thank everyone here for your great posts and pray for your physical and monetary heath.
Am I the only Fully invested Goldbug here?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:19 - ID#31868)
Lurker 777

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:23 - ID#345176)
@ Lurker 777

50% of net worth in gold stocks. And I still love them!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:25 - ID#28585)
PM investing is for dummies...and it is important that we should become smart once again.

Remember...paper is from a tree, a Godly-created thing...when the government puts its numbers upon it, then it becomes an even more valuable thing. and silver are born of mud and dirt...foul and smelly detestable things...they are like the garbage in the dump.

The Power is in the Dow...ergo, there is Dow Power and we must pay homage to its potency!

Always remember the game of Paper, Scissors, and Rock.

Paper always wins against rock...

Ergo, the Paper of the Dow must win against the gold and silver of the Rock.

I feel enraptured and enlighted by the Power of the Dow.


(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:26 - ID#230140)
Comex Gold Delvery Problems
Allen ( USA ) I am Standing on thier chest. We have told them they have until the 25th to deliver or we go to the Comex. They said they are working on it. What is interesting is they seem concerned and in the dark.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:26 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 28.67 This is a new high which exceeds the record close of February 9, 1966 of 28.61.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:27 - ID#329157)
The First Crack?
"...Lott said there was a provision... that the arms inspectors would be
accompanied by 'some form of diplomatic representation.'
'I expressed my concern to the president that, was this going to be inspectors accompanying diplomats or diplomats accompanying inspectors? It makes a big difference who's in the lead here,' Lott said."
Time will tell. It has a habit of doing that.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:28 - ID#20167)
Farfel, U.S. Equity markets topping
Get a grip man. There is a good
chance that the Equity markets
will top out at the next major
astronomical event, which is a
major gravity attraction high and
a solar eclipse occuring on
thursday, this week.
I have seen dramatic turns in the
markets at these events. Also,
gold and silver will probably
reverse on or about the same time.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:28 - ID#330175)
Back from 'another' day of futility in Sydney.......
Just checking in ta see what is new @ the kitco 'funny farm'---This beats!~~~~~~Welcome back Bernatz!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:30 - ID#269409)
@ Lurker...careful..careful... can't be underestimated as a strategy. Many had a total belief in Gold 5, 10, 15 years ago, as you do now, and due perhaps to some of the same reasons. They've lost out on 1000 % + gains in equities ( not to mention the major beating in metals and mining shares ) .

I believe as you do, that we're at a turning point in market cycles. However, having close to half my net worth tied up in a 401K, where PM investment is not possible, is not a bad thing in my opinion. It's certainyl where I've made the best gains in the past decade. Huge gains in fact ( now protected in bond and MM funds, except for the portion in my company's stock )

As to discretionary funds, I have half fully invested in PM's, about 75% physical silver, 12% PLatinum 13% Gold. The rest of the discretionary investment bucks sitting on sidelines waiting for good opportunities, ocassionally trading in and out of shares including mining shares. ( Made several lucrative trades in SSC, all profitable, missed it's big "Buffet" blip up and the followingdrop which is still happening even today ) .

I try and position so that NONE of the likeliest scenarios will hurt my families nest egg to badly, while at the same time trying to maximize profits. I must echo Karlito when he says invest with your head, not your heart. I say this even though my gut instincts are screaming that big changes are in the offing during the final pre millenial months that lay ahead.

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:30 - ID#403159)
Lurker 777
I was invested up until today. I have no idea
how much you say is alot, but I'm sure you
couldn't had as much on the line as me.
Not going to hold a losing ticket. I will
try and catch the next train, only when
gold has shown it's hand a bottom is
truly in place. A person has to be able
to sleep a night.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:30 - ID#330175)
Where's Another---------I feel like readin-----------

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:31 - ID#410198)
Lurker once again GOLD IS NOT AN INVESTMENT it's insurance against idiots in power

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:31 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .237

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:32 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 45.47

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:34 - ID#31868)
USA superpower or superdebtor
What's that I, sniff, sniff - paper buring everywhere, once the door is opened a crack to the light of truth, poof, look out for the backdraft.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:34 - ID#57232)
Gold Investing? What's that?
Lurker 777: I have about 30% of my cash in gold equities, and most of the rest in treasuries. I will buy some more when gold bottoms once more. Farfel is playing the 'contrarian' indicator to make his gold/gold stock investments go up. He probably is invested up to the hilt in precious metals, but he will not tell you.
Please be careful with margin investing as I think you are doing. I would not invest anything that will cause you to go into bankruptcy if you guess wrong. Also -- don't forget that AG knows gold just as well as we do -- and those CB's could loan another 8,000 tonnes of gold if they thought it would save our current 'fiat' system during a severe financial world crisis. However, I doubt they will do this, as pushing gold down to $200/oz will just encourage more gold buying by non-CB's, and by SEAsia.
I would love to buy more gold at $200/oz, and will gladly do so with every penny I can afford to spend. Hope this helps. Sorry Farfel -- why don't you just pretend you never saw this!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:36 - ID#269245)
@Lurker 777, @ farfel
As I have recently posted ( Friday ) , I only have 33% of NET in PM's. The rest is cash and property. I would presently be at 80% if I wasn't trying to purchase a sailboat! The boat market, by the way, is almost as good as the gold market these days.

However, farfel has successfully persuaded me that I too should liquidate and go long on the Great DOW! farfel, thanks for the warning! Without you, I might have found myself sinking straight to the bottom, trying to hold on to that heavy, worthless, yellow metal! Does paper float?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:40 - ID#266105)

Re: PM exposures. I axiomatically try to follow some
rules of thumb for guidance and avoidance of trouble, knowing
myself as I do. In that, the old diversification, etc. I try
not to let anything-- individual company, sector, asset class
( excluding cash equivalents ) range beyond 10% of savings out
and deployed. Some of the infectious rambunctiousness as regards
PMs around here allowed that thinking to exceed reasonableness
by a percentage point or two over the past couple years. That
exposure is again safely into single digits ( smiley thing ) ,
some of it 'geared', more in instruments/assets that display
placidity as regards gold related instruments and items in

That's not to say, in any given environment that this,
that or the other thing is unthinkable. Even moderation can
be done to excess.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:42 - ID#238295)
Iraq, small caps
LGB: With Israel military strength reported to be far more than all Arab states combibed this obsession over SH weapons is one of the biggest deceptions in recorded history. If you are so anxious for war, why don't you volunteer to fight? Or are you really a chicken hawk.

Still think we will get a small cap blowout before the market peaks. Small caps strong today. If they take off, look for a market peak in 4-6 weeks.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:43 - ID#342376)
Lurker 777
50% investment in Gold Mining Stocks.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:43 - ID#410198)
Hate to say this to LURKER sounds like you bought into a Monex pitch

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:46 - ID#288295)
Lurker 777

50% money market fund ( 401K - PM's not an option )

5% physical PM's - divided about equally between gold and silver - $20 Libs and St's, France gold 20 FF, silver eagles, junk silver, numismatic silver dollars

40% Silver mining shares

5% Gold mining shares

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:48 - ID#372262)
Truer words were never spoken! Your 16:06 is right on the money! THIS IS THE MOST BULLISH DEVELOPMENT FOR GOLD SINCE THE INVASION OF AFGHANISTAN IN 1980! Saddam has a number of aces up his sleeve--CHINA, RUSSIA, IRAN and LIBYA! Before it's all over they will all be fightin' the Israeli/USA coalition! Watch what happens to oil and gold when this mother of all battles begun in Desert Storm culminates in a regional Mideast war!

On another matter--just read in the February, 1998 "NEWS AND VIEWS"that a new book entitled "IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF GIANTS" by Michael J. Kosares is about to be published IN A LIMITED EDITION OF 500 copies @25.00 ea. which gives a running commentary and analysis of the COMPLETE POSTINGS WITH GRAPHS AND TABLES illustrating ANOTHER ( THOUGHTS! ) from the archives of Kitco!!! Kosares apparantly believes what ANOTHER has been posting here since last October and has evidence from the real world to back up his beliefs. I have ordered my own personal copy and believe that there are many others here at KItco who would also like to order their own copy. The phone number in case you're interested is 1-800-869-5115. COULD BE THE MOST IMPORTANT READ OF THE MILLENNIUM IMHO!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:51 - ID#31868)
well, there go F. Veneroso's royalties

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:52 - ID#246224)
Property 35%, PM's ( physical ) 35%, cash 30%. Let's not quibble here. Anyone who has more than 10% portfolio in PMs physical is a 'fanatic' in the eyes of the typical financial types. I'm sure that many a lurker would qualify.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:56 - ID#410194)
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Rose 68 troy ounces to 440,439

Silver: Fell 1,413,153 troy ounces to 92,023,485 -Just above a 15 year low

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:57 - ID#269409)
@ Spud
Yeah sure...and James Carville is a right wing conservative...after all he's married to Mary Matlin.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:57 - ID#359316)
THE GOLDEN PROPHET @ 16:48 - Thanks for that advice, I'll look for it in the remainder shops in about a year's time. Unless of course, a "change of events" comes to pass.

Wee Willie
(Mon Feb 23 1998 16:57 - ID#24437)
A 10 page report entitled THE CASE for the RAGING SILVER BULL can be found at

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:00 - ID#153102)
A short squeeze like the one in prospect at LME is ruthless. How fast can a price rise when there's just not enough to go around ?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:01 - ID#26793)
Japanese bank closes its New York and London foreign exchange trading desks

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:08 - ID#153102)
I ain't gonna spill my financial guts to you. Let's just say I want dividend in product to go with product.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:08 - ID#26793)
S & P cuts ratings on Philippine currency

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:12 - ID#287277)
For those who require precedent--Here it is, Policy Precedent

For those interested in mirror images--Here it is, Nothing new under the sun!

In mid-August 1993, Roosevelt told Morgenthau he wanted to DEVALUE the DOLLAR WITH GOLD PURCHASES...the decision ignited a bitter debate and Under Secretary of the Treasury Dean Acheson ( firmly opposed ) was fired.

Because the Federal Reserve would not take the lead in buying gold to support the commodity dollar theory, Roosevelt and Morgenthau turned to Jesse Jones and the RFC to do so. ... The RFC issued $150 million of short-term obligations ( which the Reserve Banks were forbidden by law from purchasing ) to finance its gold purchases ( ibid., p. 109 )

...Jesse Jones, George Warren, and Henry Morgenthau met each morning at the president's bed to set a gold price. THE DAILY PRICE WAS IRRELEVANT AS LONG AS THE TREND WAS UP. To keep speculators off balance they fluctuated the daily price, but the general trend was up, from $29.01 an ounce on October 23, 1933, to $34.06 on January 17, 1934 . . .

Mirror IMAGE...with some fancy--and helpful--new paper tools!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:13 - ID#26793)
Treasury denies that Rubin is ready to resign.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:15 - ID#256254)
Date: Mon Feb 23 1998 17:01
Donald__A ( Japanese bank closes its New York and London foreign exchange trading
desks ) ID#26793:
"Long-Term Credit Bank of Japan shuts NY, London FX"

"The closures affect foreign exchange operations and proprietary dealing in both centers, the source said. "

Is this significant? Another red flag? If so, it is about time.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:17 - ID#288295)

The name sounds familiar - is this the person who writes the USAGold copy??

Anyway, why pay for the info.?...We already know what he ( ANOTHER ) has said ( even if we don't completely understand ) ...

If you're already invested in PM's, it's just a waiting game now - if not, time is running a little short, perhaps.

Psilver Psyched
(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:18 - ID#216217)
farfel's DOW high
Change the perception...
farfel inhaled.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:18 - ID#316232)
lurker 777
Am I the only one here shorting ( 8% ) , 92% cash? Waiting for the next turn up. Not today.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:24 - ID#252150)
Saddam@Misunderstood & Mischievous But A Nice Boy At Heart
Contrary to what the media would have you believe,
Uncle Sam loves Saddam & thinks of him as a wayward son
who's going thru a difficult adolescence. But with love,
understanding, patience & firm but fair discipline, within a year Saddam's disposition will improve, his complexion will clear up
& he will make any heartland Mom & Pop proud.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:24 - ID#222231)
Wee Willie
Your URL does'nt work. Please repost correctly. Sounds interesting

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:26 - ID#31868)
I think Japan is very near to
teaching the all powerful USA a lesson in humility.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:26 - ID#401460)
Washington Wagons Circling

"They are circling the wagons in Washington and Clinton is outside." CNBC

Vernon Jordan running for high ground leaving Clinton alone on Monica situation - more on CNBC "Hardball" to night.

Clinton has put himself in a potentially strong position; if Saddam renigs ( sp ) on deal - Clinton says "in the event SH does not conform to this agreement, the US reserves the right to respond in a very forceful manner, on it's own time schedule." another words immediately with out others approval. The legal Eagle may have won again.


(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:31 - ID#372262)
Silverbaron--Just talked with Kosares about his book--has charts and commentary to explain what he thinks ANOTHER means by his statements. |Important, I believe, to help us better understand this secret but explosive connection between Saudi oil and LME gold! Whether you agree with ANOTHER or not his is the only post here at Kitco which can adequately explain the huge volumes of gold passing through the doors of the LME on a daily basis! If there is another plausible explanation I have yet to hear it expressed and validated with charts and graphs!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:35 - ID#26793)
@A. Goose
The Japanese bank story may be part of the post of 10 or so days ago that said only two Japanese banks would meet BIS capital standards for international transfers ( two more than I thought would make it ) . It could also be connected with some major FX trading losses that have not yet been disclosed. I will keep an eye out for more details.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:38 - ID#57232)
Re: Rubin, and thoughts on BC
Donald: I find it interesting that it is not R. Rubin who comes up and refutes the rumors of his departure -- but one of his subordinates. R. Rubin was thinking of resigning, and now it looks like many Clinton supporters are jumping ship. I think BC is up to his eyeballs in trouble, and he knows it! I wonder, have the Democrats asked him to resign? I think Nixon was much more effective in foreign affairs by the way, even after Watergate began. This time I think our foreign ship of state will be rudderless until BC steps down. It may be sooner than we think -- as BC is showing remarkably little spirit these days. Never thought that this would be the event that brings down our ebullient markets, but it sure does seem very likely. And -- I think the role of the internet will compress years of intrigue into months.
Now -- why did Monica need a top security clearance? What secrets did she have to keep -- wait a minute -- you don't need to answer that!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:38 - ID#237299)
@the golden ripoff (er, I mean golden prophet)
Isn't it amazing how there is always some scumbag, who lacking any
original thoughts of their own, will appropriate the work of others
and seek to con people and profit from it.. peddle *your* book elsewhere.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:40 - ID#287277)
I've committed a Freudian Typing Error--that should be 1933!
And speaking of Freudian slips--Clinton's 'news conference'--speaking of Iraq, said "Iran"...he corrected himself immediately, but rather interesting yes?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:42 - ID#246224)
Heavy .Hitter@Gold.Deliveries
'Gold is plentiful..' On what planet??? Appearantly Qestor is not seeing 1800 ounces in gold. Tyler Rose is not seeing 100 ounces in gold. COMEX is not WORKING properly. We have reports of very brisk demand in the physical market. Yet gold is NOT being expeditiuosly delivered to these two. Remember there are 100 contracts for gold delivery for every 3/4 contracts deliverable from COMEX warehouses. If only 1% of the outstanding contracts required delivery then the system would not work for one second more. The Silver market is twice as bad as this or worse.

Q&TR represent 19 contracts. This small sampling ( random ) is indicative of a major systemic issue which we will see ( ? ) shortly. A typical QA/C sampling on a factory floor would be similar in size and surely would red flag the entire process in manufacturing/industry these days. This is a small sign of a big problem. We shall see.

Until then I take comfort in your assurances ( not! ) .

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:42 - ID#269409)
Gold analyst comments

"Gold was undercut by the Iraqi deal," said James Steel, analyst at
Refco. He said that the slide in crude prices was "not good news" for gold
because a large portion of the consumer price index is energy-related. Thus
a drop in crude prices "reaffirms the disinflationary trend in the
economy," he said. NY Apr crude ended down 88c, or 5.4%, after making a 4-
year low on the Iraq news.
Generally regarded as an inflation hedge, gold tends to fare badly in a
low inflation environment.
Traders noted that gold had also been weakened after it broke below the
psychologically important $300 level Friday and the Iraq news provided it
with a compelling reason to move even lower.
"Gold was top-heavy at $300," said one trader, noting that Apr's fall
below the 40-day moving average of $295.50 was providing it with more
downside momentum.
"Crossing the moving average was more significant than the Iraq news
and the funds shorted it," said another trader.
Also weighing on gold today was the overnight gain in overseas stock
markets, and the early strength in US stock markets.
"Basically you can pick whatever reason you want. There was little to
help gold today--it was all negative," said the trader.
He suggested that unless the stocks and Iraq picture change
drastically, "conditions are in place for another selloff."
Traders said that it was not well supported until the $285 and $282
levels. They noted that gold was looking for a breakout after it moved into
an increasingly tighter range last week.
Silver fell back on gold's weakness, with Mar settling down 5c at
$6.473 per ounce after hitting a 20-day low of $6.36.

Charles Keeling
(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:42 - ID#344225)
What is the lesson that you think the
Japanese will teach?

I have been thinking that they are foolish to
continue to hold such a heavy load of
US Treasuries. They could lay in a very
good amount of gold at todays prices by
selling some of their paper and buying gold
at bargain basement prices.

They have a chance right NOW to come out with
a currency for all of S E Asia with, say
15-20% gold backing. Do you suppose that
this is what the BIG BANG that they talk about
is going to be. I understand their version
of the BIG BANG is coming in April.

What are your thoughts on this????

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:45 - ID#26793)
From the remarks of Rubin in London over the weekend I wondered if we are on the verge of, to the delight of U.S. automakers, placing higher tariffs on auto imports. Japan would respond by visibly dumping bonds.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:45 - ID#31868)
Yes, Iran, ah, I mean Iraq, I caught that as well. Ah, but what the heck, we can't read into subtle things like that, or --- can we?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:49 - ID#401460)

Japan has had enough?

YES, looks like 6% on the Bond.
Even with CRB, XAU, OIL, etc falling.


Spud Master
(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:49 - ID#273112)
uh .. LGB, try to stick to the avowed topic here: Precious Metals
Rather than waste time listen to your popinjay squawks, I'd rather hear more about Questor & Tyler Rose having problems gettting their COMEX gold delivered - frigthfully exciting, don't you think old boy?

And how about that COMEX drawdown in silver as well! Yet SSC just sits there, semi-inert. Curious, curious. Plenty of strange things afoot in Villa Straylight tonight!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:50 - ID#57232)
Just how many banks does Japan need to function?
Donald: What do you think is happening in Japan? I see two scenarios:
1 ) Hashimoto is in control, and is shaking out the weak banks.
2 ) Hashimoto is not in control, and the weaker banks have gone under, only to be followed by a multude of banks.
My guess is that Japan is going to come out of this fairly soon, without an outright collapse, simply because the threat of collapse gives Hashimoto the ammunition to clean the bureaucratic house - finally!
A Chinese devaluation might tip the scales, however.

Any idea why the US dollar plummeted today? Are the Japanese selling US treasuries? After the big bang, will they be buying gold with their US treasury sales?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:52 - ID#371247)
I can't leave you guys for a week without letting the bottom fall out of the gold market. There is more apparent flab in this market than on Hillary's thighs. Come on gold market; attent hut--goose step forward; not so fast there paper market.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:53 - ID#234311)
@General, re Y2K effect on PM's
For a measured response to the possible effects of Y2K on banking in general and PM's in particular, visit

This site is an online addendum to Ed Yourdon's book "Time Bomb 2000" and gives a decision table based on four possible results of Y2K problems: severe inflation, severe deflation, the freezing of bank assets, and the collapse of the banking infrastructure. He presents the best place to have your assets in each ( non-mutually-exclusive ) permutation of events, and lets you decide which one is most likely. A pretty even-handed site. Even Farfel might glean some heretical wisdom from it...

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:55 - ID#22956)
......You crafty devil......
Tort, how do you know about HC's thighs?? ...crafty devil you..... ( yuk ) ......

(Mon Feb 23 1998 17:58 - ID#26793)
With the Dow at new highs every day, and with the news on Pres. Clinton that is public so far, impeachment in this Congress is out of the question. If there is a market crash ( expected by me ) before November the new Congress could be made up of people who ran on a family values platform. That would make impeachment more likely after November EXCEPT that Republicans do not want to give Gore an opportunity to act presidential before the year 2000 presidential elections. In summary, impeachment is unlikely until the very last few days of Clinton's term, if at all. That does not mean we could not have political turmoil over the Clinton affairs for the next 2+ years. Likely we will.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:01 - ID#269245)
@JTF & Donald_A
When a public official states,"There is no substance to those rumors" ( concerning Rubin's rumored resignation ) , one should not take this response as a denial. The statement, so far as I can tell, is in itself quite factual ( and interesting... ) - yet says nothing of importance. This is a standard government response, kind of like, "There is no sexual relationship." These statements are meant to mislead without actually lying. - c

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:02 - ID#269409)
@ Old Gold..... (AKA Neville Chamberlin)
"Anxious for war" ?? I think not. I'm anxious to avoid sending my teenage sons off to a future war that could have been avoided. You think Saddam is no threat, because he doesn't have the war machine to match Israel's?

Come now...let's reason together.

Did Israel commit genocide on it's own people with poison gas?

Did Israel fight a protracted war with Iran for years even after it became clear that the only accomplishment would be millions of lives lost to no purpose?

Did Israel invade a peaceful neighbor like Kuwait, unprovoked and slaughter everyone in sight?

Did Israel threaten to become the dominate force in "uniting" the Arab world, by force if necessary...including invasion of Saudi Arabia if no one stepped in after the Kuwait invasion?

Did Israel lose a war, with the entire world united against it's senseless agression, then sign a bunch of accords, and promptly proceed to break each and every one?

Did Israel ammass tropped for a second Kuwaiti invasion, turning back only after taking a pounding with cruise missiles?

Did Israel, spend 1 billion + dollars since the Gulf war was lost, building WMD's and military might as it's populace starves and it's people go without medicine?

Did Israel lob dozens of scud missiles at innocent civilians intentionally with no other purpose than to cowardly attepts to terrorize an innocent populace?

Did Israel propose to drive any of it's neighbors into the sea? Propose and attempt to intentioanally incite the "mother of all wars" in the middle East, proudly?

Did Israeli leaders kill their own offspring, and murder/execute thousands of it's own citizens for any slight hint of rebeliousness against a despot maniac Hitleresque leader?

Let's "get a clue" shall we? Of history has taught us anything, it's taught us that appeasement of a madman leads to terrible wars and mass misery for millions.

far from being "pro war", I am quite fearful of same for the future of my children and others children, due to the spineless, gutless, mindless pontifications of the appeasers. ( Not to mention having an amoral leadership who is now neutered and incapable of dealing with the "Saddam's" pf the world )

Ronald Reagan would know how to handle this crises, and peace would be the result. All we've done today is buy time and insure a terrible price will be paid in the future.

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:06 - ID#403159)
Why are T. Rose and Questo not making phone calls to
the Comex. Someone should find out from the horses
mouth what the hell is going on. How come kitcoties
are the ones having the problems getting delivered.
There sure is no shortage of gold around. How
much do you want. Name your desires. You want
a ton of it, it will be here tomorrow. The hype
is flowing like the Missisippi around here.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:06 - ID#26793)
Japan can function without any Japanese owned banks meeting the BIS standards. All that is required would be to allow branches of banks from other countries handle that function in Japan. Much face would be lost. I read recently that banks that are found guilty of bribes to MOF officials will NOT be allowed to accept government ( public/taxpayer ) bailout money under current Japanese law. This complicates the problem further.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:08 - ID#210114)
MoReGoLd (@Let's not kid each other )
I agree. This is still a bear market for gold. All news is bad news. Bombs on Bhagdad or not gold was going to fall.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:09 - ID#210114)
Who' Selling 7000 tons??
Is this a mad rumour or is there some fact amongst the innuendo?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:10 - ID#224149)
Who stole my Garbage bags full of Gold ?
Oil for Gold --- how about fresh lobster tails for Gold ---Melted butter --Something my body can understand. Another was sighted in Lake Simcoe driving a garbage truck and promoting his new book My Self Esteem Away to find missing garbage bags.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:10 - ID#210114)
Welcome Back Karlito 99
Good to read from you again. Tell it like it is.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:12 - ID#23782)
Ted 16:30
I could always post something.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:12 - ID#57232)
Impeachment news?
Donald: I agree with you there is nothing 'official' about impeachment. However, I think the 'real news' has spread inside the beltway already, and we only see a little bit.
You make a good point that the Republicans will not want to make waves until a time closer to the election. However, that will not be good for the country to draw all of this out too long. My guess is that things will continue to heat up quite a bit in the months ahead.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:13 - ID#269409)
@ SpudMaster...silver & SSC
Re your I'm still laughing! That's the spirit! Comic relief! Spud lecturing folks to stock to PM discussion! ( Hehehe...better than Lewinsky CLinton jokes! )

Yep, silver had me worried last Friday with that big bump up in inventory so I'm gratified to see it drop today by an equivelant amount. WB must be buyin again! Hmmmcome to think of it, don't they owe him another 40 mill ounces or so?

Now as to SSC. Yes it be droppin and I hope it drops a lot more so I can get yet another trade with it. 1 1/8 will be my "buy" point.

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:17 - ID#403159)
WHERE? It's like sh_t it's everywhere.
ALLEN you must be from some other form
of life. Was that you in "Slime Creatures".

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:19 - ID#57232)
I agree
clone: The Rubin spokesman cannot be accused of lying, since he may not have been informed one way or the other. I think RR will resign soon.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:24 - ID#393224)
Looks like the Cuervo was flowing a bit early up 'North' today. Down 'South' our trading day is just beginning. Some comments:

Gold correction proceeding nicely. Right shoulder of inverse H. & S. forming. As long as the right shoulder does not go below the left shoulder, it is a good time to add to positions. IF left shoulder is passed on the downside--then all bets are off!!!

Panda's chart--a couple of days old--so mentally draw in 293.

Silver holding up extremely well before the next powerful UP move. Quite a few little Aussie silver wannabes creeping up in anticipation. A few potential ten-baggers that will be extremely profitable at higher prices.
The silver bear is DEAD!! Can't be manipulated quite as easily as gold. As posted on Feb. 6th, I sold my silver for $7.71/oz. ( Jeez, I hate braggarts!! ) but am now in the process of getting muchos involved for the next big killing. Have switched from physical to paper silver for more bang for my buck. OK--I know the dangers involved--and I accept them!!Gotta go trade. Hallelujah brother Farfel!! Have enjoyed your sermon from the Mount.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:24 - ID#269409)
@ Heavy Hitter
Maybe you're confused about Gold's availability for delivery, due to not being in the market to purcahse any? Else, if you're buying it hand over fist with no problem, I'm sure we'd be informed. If not, why question those who are? The ignorant instructing the wise?

Spud Master
(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:25 - ID#273112)
Skyrocketing Federal borrowing ... but we have a balanced budget!
US Treasury "Debt to the Penny" - $35 BILLION in debt so in Feb.:

02/19/1998 $5,515,606,648,101.35
02/02/1998 $5,483,592,532,096.82

Repeat after me:

"There is no debt. There is no debt.
The Budget is balanced. The Budget is Balanced.
The Government has a surplus. The Government has a surplus...

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:27 - ID#403277)
Speaking of Freudian slips,
everybody missed Tolerant1's 14:36

Spud Master
(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:28 - ID#273112)
ah ... now I KNOW who's buying all those 1/8 point trades I do in SSC.

Thanks LGB!!! It's going to a good cause ( grin ) .

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:30 - ID#258129)
@farfel posts
It was funny to watch answers. With no exception, everyone took it as farfel really think so

Spud Master
(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:31 - ID#273112)
Message for Glen in the COMEX pits....
Would you please chip in and let us know what's going on the trading floor? Anything to follow up up Questor & Tyler Rose comments about tardy gold delivery? Any talk about a COMEX crises due to too low inventories of metal?


(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:35 - ID#288295)
Spock @ 7000 tonnes

Didn't you catch this yesterday?
See posts at 2/22 13:33 and this morning from 04:47 to about 07:15.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:37 - ID#23398)
To Lurker777/Clone/Farfel
Lurker777 I never invest more than 20% of portfolio in Gold, by way of convertibles. This crazy market gives you the runs at least you collect some interest.Enough to buy tissue paper anyway.So far my lost is about 25% since the market dropped from the $400/level.Basically I lost the equivalent of a house in Cape Breton.On paper anyway,Cnd $ s Ted.

Farfel a bit late to join the the Dow party.The odds are certainly not in your favor good luck.

Clone A sail boat that is a worst investment than gold,I just sold a 35Ft sailboat. Talk about dropping money down the drain. It never stops
and depending where you live It can be a long summer,A little word of advice if you want it.Rent a boat week ends when you want to sail.Last year I calculated that It cost me $350.00 everytime I took the boat out.Excluding the cost of the boat and my boat what paid for. So if you finance your purchase ad it to your cost.If you love sailing go ahead nothing beats the sun and wind in your face with the sound of the waves hitting the hull . ( Hope you spouse is not afraid of tiping over )

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:37 - ID#224149)
Maybe a Surprise this week
EB ---I have no Currency positions at this time as holidays approach only one long Gold Position that will be surely dumped this week. Away to buy new garbage bags.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:40 - ID#31868)
On Japan
Debt paper away! In addition the US has been running Japan down in public for a long, long time now. Let us all see what happens when the stink from all the dirty deals the US govt, Wall Street and large US banks hits the light of day.

England loves us, the rest of Europe does not seem to have the same love for our President that Mr. Blair does.

Asia, hmmmmmmmmm, I think as I have said before, they will side with Japan in any and all economic matters. Japan has a great deal of money in the US in addition to owning a lot of our debt.

Who is the US going to be making all these wonderful deals with.

Once Japan makes its position perfectly clear for all the world to see, we will see what happens to the US debt market and the now famous US stock market.

Hmmmmmm, and all those lovely dollars coming home, oh my.

Oh yeah, and those wacky kids in the Middle East.

Japan is the lynchpin holding the US together in my opinion, once pulled, look out below.

Charles Keeling
(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:42 - ID#344225)
SH has had plenty of time to hide all
WMD. Iraq can now allow search of "the Palaces"
which will take a lot of time and turn up
nothing. He stalled and bluffed in order
to buy time.

Inspectors were close to turing up something.
Now they are back to ground zero.

Look for IRAN to push for higher oil prices
very soon. If the Gulf crisis is considered
"over" after the details are studied, the
deal struck with the Arab states to hold
oil prices down will be finished. Higher
oil prices coming soon.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:43 - ID#22956)
.......The neighborhood is getting bad.........and stuff.........
I think this gold thing is making people irritable. Cyber Space can be a rather tedious place. And to think, some come here to enjoy themselves. Now, let us all be nice bugs and debate w/o name calling.

What D.A. probably meant when he described as was that it was kkk mentality. You know....low brow and insulting. If the shoe fits..... ( I'll wear it ) ..... ( this place really bites sometimes ) ......

oh LGB, wasn't SH George Bush's mess? And if you go back far enough it ( ME ) was RR's mess too.......and if you go back far enough it was Carter's mess too.....and if you go back far enough....... ( well, you get the picture ) will ALWAYS be someones mess.......regardless of how they get their jollies...Let us NOT be so nonsensical as to place blame on ONE person/country/entity. Let us not be so arrogant ( US ) to think that we ( US ) started all this and it is up to us ( US ) to fix it. When ( under whose presidency ) were biological weapons supplied to ME/SH/whoever shouldn't have it?? This 'bed' was being made long before BC was in 'power'. The finger pointing might be shared ( if you must ) .....

now.....go gold the grind

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:49 - ID#403159)
How much gold do you want. Name the
quantity. No one I repeat no one has a
problem purchasing gold from any dealer.
While your at it the phone number is
under your nose. Does KITCO ring a
bell. I will bet you 10K gold can be found
anywhere for almost immediate delivery.
I guess you too are one of the other
forms of life who dwell here. You are
out to lunch, along with your good
friend Ziva. We still don't know what
it was.

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 18:58 - ID#403159)
They have confirmed gold is in no
short supply. USA will sell you all
the bullion your little hearts desire.
Just pick up the phone and place
your orders.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:01 - ID#393224)
Aussie gold shares down 1.6% on extremely light volume. Only the chickenshirts are selling at the moment. Good time to nibble if anyone is hungry.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:02 - ID#26669)
LGB, Spud, etc re SSC:
I don't see how you guys make any real money on your short term 1/8 point SSC trading unless you are doing it from within a 401k account? Every time I do something like that my Uncle from Washington DC gets too much of it to make it worthwhile. Then he gives it to the IMF or some equally stupid endeavor.

From my perspective as a long term player in SSC I think my ( not yours or anybody elses ) next buying opportunity will come with silver at $5.80 to $6.10 ( I don't think that $6.40 will hold ) , SSC dropping to the 15/16 to 1 range, depending on whether the volume settles down. I missed the last good opportunity when it was 15/16 at about 250,000 volume the day before WB made his announcement.

Disclaimer: I'm not a professional and have nothing to base this opinion on except the smell of the wind, sound of the waves, and the entrails of some recently sacrificed chickens ( liver to be exact, fried and served with a jalpeno pepper ) which I studied at length Saturday. Some poor deluded person didn't believe me last weekend when I said I was just a PM buying fool so I thought I'd be more specific this time.

BTW, not trying to interject reason into your political discussion, but A ) Nazis, Communists, Democrats, Social Democrats, et cetera are all names for the various sects of the socialist ideology. B ) You guys are more alike than different. You both sound like libertarians to me.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:05 - ID#273368)
To All:
April Gold see chart: was able to close above it's 50 day moving average which is a good sign. The RSI however dropped to 37% and we are heading back to $280 for a Real bottom formation, then like Peter Munk has publicly stated the rise in the pog will be much more dramatic than the one we saw two weeks ago in the price of silver.

PS just when it looks worst that is the time that no one will wan't gold and that is the exact moment that the captain will turn the ship around 180 degrees.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:06 - ID#258427)
EBN HAS SILVER up .04 at 6.52, but it is always
different than the kitco price...???...anyway, a good start in the correct direction for a change...go silver, SSC and er...Gold..

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:15 - ID#26669)
Afterthought to LGB and Spudmaster Maybe I'll buy around 2 next week. What do you think? Should I consult the pizza gods?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:24 - ID#255217)
Repurchase after profit taking
Nick@C ( Au/Ag ) . WHERE in silver do you figure is a good repurchase level? Realistically. Would like to get back in at $5.50 or better, but don't think that is possible. Anyone?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:24 - ID#256254)
Date: Mon Feb 23 1998 18:58

I think the problem is NOT the buying/selling. It is the delivering. Is U.S.A. gold having any problems making deliveries, obtaining gold for delivery, .... We need specifics. Thanks.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:25 - ID#287277)
More Fodder for Donald's "Bank Watch List"..
Tuesday February 24 1998
HSBC braces for wave of bad debt

HSBC Holdings yesterday prepared for further fallout from Asia's financial market turmoil by revealing an unexpectedly large increase in
provision levels in its 1997 results.

Economist--"A Sorry Swap" JPMorgan/Korea
The bust-up highlights the problems that can arise from risk-sharing in currency-swap contracts, especially when such contracts were signed on the assumption that the underlying currency would remain stable, but did not.

...Were the contracts legally flawed, as the Koreans claim? That is still not clear. Analysts suspect the JPMorgan was keen to unload an estimated $1bn of Thai baht early last year. When approached by cash-strapped Korean banks, JPMorgan offered them an interest -free funding scheme in return for swapping its baht for yen. As part of the deal, SK in effect agreed to buy baht from JPMorgan in exchange for yen, with Boram Bank as counterparty; when the baht collapsed, the Koreans ended up owing a small fortune.

One question facing judges in Seoul will be: did JPMorgan misinform its customers? SK Securities thinks so.
...JPMorgan is unlikely to be the only foreign bank to end up in an Asian court because of derivatives. Thanks partly to aggressive marketing by several foreign banks--...Lehman Brothers and Chase Manhattan--South Koreas investment banks and fund management firms are rumoured to have $2.5bn tied up in financial derivatives.

No ( sigh ) . But I can dream cant I?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:36 - ID#258129)
@Argent, 19:24
I think, silver will go down another 10-25c and then up to 7+. But not for long.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:36 - ID#258129)
@Argent, 19:24
I think, silver will go down another 10-25c and then up to 7+. Bun not for long.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:39 - ID#258427)
@Argent...ssc bail and re-entry...
I'm with you Argent...I bailed from SSC and took a nice profit from the recent runup...but I wanted back in ... and I watched and waited, and reentered today at 1 1/4 SSC ... I have the "feel" that we are near the bottom of this silver correction...1 1/4 or 1 1/8 ... what's the diff if ssc really goes to 3 or 4 or 10 or 20....I jumped back in!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:45 - ID#288295)

They say that a bell doesm't ring at the top... but if RR resigns, it'll be ringing so loud that no one ( except perhaps farfel and the rest of the true believers ) will miss it.

Fire in the crowded theater.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:46 - ID#393224)
Au/Ag Nudist Convention
G'day Arden. Picking bottoms is a difficult business. Trying to get the last few cents may cause you to miss the train altogether. I doubt if we will see $5.50 silver again for a long while.

Look at individual charts. In Oz there are more bottom formations than you would see at a Nudist Convention!! Nice little bowl shapes that had all turned up well before being 'Buffeted' up a big notch. They have broken the long term down trend lines and are now correcting back down to those lines. This is normal and to be expected. The closer you can buy your shares to the breakout ( up ) point, the tighter you can have your stop-loss below the breakout point. Many of the silver shares will not get back down to that point as there is too much upside potential. Down days like today are good buying opportunities. Remember what I said about the stop-loss. When you buy--set the limit of your losses. Do not waver from this. That way you will always live to trade another day. Cheers, Nick.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:47 - ID#330175)
EB-----------I finger-point @ everyone + everthing....but * go gold*(only down .50 t'nite)
Headphones tightly strapped on---------ignition---we have BLAST-OFF~~~

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:48 - ID#393224)
Sorry Arden=Argent!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:50 - ID#258129)
Signing off
Watch Europe stocks down tomorrow

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:50 - ID#403159)
Pick up the phone. Whats wrong cat got your
tongue. Gold is available in quanities. Read
my lips.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 19:56 - ID#330175)
What a 'small world' Poorboys
We have the same 'garbage-guy'~~~~~~~~~

Lurker 777
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:00 - ID#317247)

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:06 - ID#330175)
'Reality check' @ kitCON
April gold down ( ( ( ( .70 ) ) ) )

Lurker 777
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:07 - ID#317247)
That figures!
Thanks TED

Lurker 777
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:10 - ID#317247)
Where do you get April quotes? I use: But it is not updated!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:15 - ID#401460)



(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:15 - ID#22956)
A Goose
NO need to respond ( to it ) ....... ( medication all gone and pharmacy is closed for good ) doesn't go....

Ted, you know what you can do with your finger.... ( stoopid-smile ) ...I think somethings leakin out of those headphones.....

Crystal Ball
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:16 - ID#340392)
Lurker 777 and friends
It shows GCJ8 down 20 centavos

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:17 - ID#401460)



Steve in TO__A
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:19 - ID#209265)
online brokers
Are there any commodities brokerages that allow you to trade oinline, a la e-trade? Also interested in what you folks have found to be a goo online quote source.

ThanQ in advance,

Steve in TO__A
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:19 - ID#209265)
online brokers
Are there any commodities brokerages that allow you to trade oinline, a la e-trade? Also interested in what you folks have found to be a goo online quote source.

ThanQ in advance,

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:20 - ID#222231)
223 re:ssc
My Dear 223,

Consider that ssc is at 1.25/share
1/8 increase = 0.125/share
1.25/share divided into 0.125*100 = 10%

ssc at 1.125/share
1/8 increase = 0.125/share
1.125/share divided into 0.125 *100 = 11%

1/8 increase = 0.125/share
1.00/share divided into 0.125*100 = 121/2%

If you deal in a block of 10,000 shares

at 1.25/share * 10,000 = $12,500*10% = $1,250.00

at 1.125/share * 10,000 = $11,250*11% = $1,237.50

at 1.00/share * 10,000 = 10,000*121/2% = $1,250.00

SSC has traded within a narrow range for several yrs. I've traded it for many yrs and made money within a few weeks/trade. A 10% to 12% profit within weeks is not bad, IMHO. All the above less commissions of course which can run anywhere from $50 to $100 per trade depending on which broker you are using. On an annual % I have doubled and at times more than doubled my money trading SSC. Nothing to sneeze at! I wish I could short it also, but because of it's price I'm not allowed to.

Now consider SSC is at $0.75/share and increases 1/8
$0.75/share divided into 0.125*100 = 16.67%
10,000 shares*$0.75*16.67% = $1,250.00 less commissions in and out.

SSC usually has decent volume. I just condition my trades with my broker to sell any portion or all if I can get my sell position until they are all traded. I use technical analysis to position my trades, such as a combiation of Bollinger Bands and RSI when they show a buy signal.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:20 - ID#26793)
Japan Nikkei Stocks
Down 253 ( 1.53% )

Crystal Ball
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:21 - ID#340392)
@ EB
Hill went to OB-GYN and found out she's PG. She called the White House and asked to talk to Bill. He picked up the phone and heard, "You got me pregnant, you b@!#^d !!" Silence from Bill. "Did you hear me, you got me pregnant!!" Bill pauses. "Um....Who is this?"

Crystal Ball
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:25 - ID#340392)
@ Steve in To_A
ZAP high speed electronic futures oredr entry. Cannot vouch for how good their service is... http://WWW.ZAPFUTURES.COM OR CALL 800-441-1616

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:29 - ID#256254)
I guess Heavy Hitter has a point. If comex can't make the deliveries have them call U.S.A. Gold, Kitco,... and buy the bullion ASAP on the open market. That ought to be fun for them. Maybe LME will follow their lead.

Keep us informed.

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:30 - ID#403159)
GOLD= Go no where do nothing.
Great concept in investing.
more ANOTHER prophecies
open for failure


(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:35 - ID#42365)
?? errr what was that spkie about anyone
care to comment???

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:40 - ID#330175)
Heavy Hitter....(I must say,I am very concerned that you have had a total-----
mental breakdown ( am I correct? ) ~~~~~~*go gold*

Crystal Ball
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:40 - ID#340392)
JapanNikkei 225 ^N225 8:38PM 16301.90 -307.59 -1.85%

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:40 - ID#401460)

LGB just made a buy!


(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:43 - ID#330175)
Lurker 777 and April Gold quotes(I just make them or try---------

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:44 - ID#42365)
can anyone point me to a site that can explain futures, what they are how they work?? i dont understand this concept fully yet, as im new to PM's, and this sort of stuff. however know im buyin Gold and waitn, got it cheap too.. best way i guess. : )

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:45 - ID#330175)
Lurker 777---------------second try=

Barb Hughes
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:47 - ID#20783)
ALL RE: Gold Bullion Coins

GOLD BULLION COINS are not in shortage!!!

The big houses or lets call them by their new name Bullion Banks have large quantities---I receive daily faxes from them.

The problem lies in that the smaller houses do not have the supplies on hand and must order from the Bullion Banks.

You 1st must be an established dealer and/or trading partner & 2nd must order in large quantities, which takes capital. Sometimes slow delivery only means they want your money up frontbefore they purchase the bullion coins that must then be delivered to them before they can ship to you.

This is also know as gauging the float of their $'s or stretching the yee ole' buck.

Take careBarb

The Hatt
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:48 - ID#294232)
Gold on Jan 8 was $279.50 today $293.20!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since the no war scenario has played out i really donot see this having a major short term effect on the price of gold. My only other comment is to the SHEEP of Kitco who believe that paper is the place to be.In other words starving wolves donot eat sheep!The mutual fund meltdown is close and I would suggest that entering into a dialogue with the SHEEP is hardly worth the energy you use to hit the keys on your keyboard.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:49 - ID#330175)
'Strange things 'goin on t'nite

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:50 - ID#30116)
From the FED, Country Exposure Lending survey

This is for you data cruncher types......

(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:54 - ID#25588)
Scarface - To answer your question 5.50 as an approximate correction low is figured a couple ways. A trend line ( I use Gann lines ) drawn on a weekly chart from the lows 7/18/97 thru the lows of 10/31/97 will be in an area between 5.25-5.50 for next 6-8 weeks. Any major decline will fine support here. Wave 2 retracements in the silver market tend to run 60-80% of wave 1. Also in a five wave advance the larger degree advances tend to mirror the characteristics of the like wave in the previous leg up. In this case the bottom ( weekly ) was 7/18/97, wave 1 high 10/03/97, wave 2 low 10/31/98, that decline was exactly 62% ( Fib # ) . We can expect a similiar 60% + decline wheather the high is in at 7.50 or if it comes from 8.00. The 62 month cycle low due in April is Dan Ascani's number who has been very good with cycles in the metals and SnP. We also know from the last wave 1 advance that it was corrected in about 1/3 of the time. This advance appears to be lasting 30-35 weeks a correction should last 8-12 wks. put all this together and you have a correction after this next advance down to the mid $5 range most likely no later then May 1st. But let's try and make some money this week on this next advance. For tomorrow try to buy May silver at 6.40 or lower with a close only stop of 6.30.

Crystal Ball
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:55 - ID#340392)
@ GNutz
Better you don't find out about futures...You could lose your Nutz. Easily. Better to buy DROOY between 2 and 2 1/4. Plenty of leverage there, no margin calls, no option expirations. You can hold 'til the cows come home and DROOY goes to 8 or 9 or ???.

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 20:55 - ID#403159)
No, not total but almost. Don't like unwinding
positions. I think I've made my bed and now
I have to lie in it. End of story. And I guess
Ted has never has a bad day. It wasn't long ago
you looked pretty unstable yourself friend. I
think you should look back and reminisce
about some of your old postings. You might
see some reflection there. Friendly advice
is all.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:00 - ID#42365)
Crystal, well i really dont know what drooy is, wish i did, all I really know
is physical metal. I like the way it looks, and feels in my hand, but wishin i had more as you say 'leverage', heard futures could be nuthin nice, thanks for the advice ( surely i wouldnt wanna lose my arse , or any other AHeM nessecary organs heh ) . Well how do i go about finding this Drooy person? Is it a gold stock or well what is it?

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:01 - ID#403159)
BARB HUGHS 20:47 post ALLEN U.S.A. AND A. GOOSE (place your orders )
Thank you Barb. There is no shortage of gold.
Case closed.

Crystal Ball
(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:01 - ID#340392)
@ G-Nutz
OK - here you go fella!

Steve in TO__A
(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:03 - ID#209265)
CrystalBall- thanks for the tip
I looked 'em up. I'll download their info & check into them.

BTW guys- all this disputation about short supplies of gold hasn;t affected the lease rate. When silver deliveries started to be a problem the lease rate shot up over 30%. GLR is still under 2% and if anybody absolutely *has* to get their hands on some gold they can lease it fairly easily at those rates.

The other thing is, the silly shorts launched their lawsuit when physical silver supply was squeezed ( remember they were claiming that market manipulation was going on by transferring silver to London where inventories are not disclosed, that was before Buffett made them look like fools. ) You'll see a lot more hyperventilating and conspiracy theorizing from the shorts when gold supplies finally do get squeezed for real.


(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:03 - ID#330175)
Heavy Hitter-------------geez I was just expressing my humble concerns about--
your state of mind ( ? ) ....Dig up some of those old posts of mine for moi~~I musta blacked em out of my brain cell....

Crystal Ball
(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:05 - ID#340392)
@ G-Nutz
DROOY is Durban Deep ADRs. Durban Deep is a South African gold mining stock. An ADR is an American Depository Receipt, kind of a way of trading the South African stock in New York without the nuisance of having to trade on the Jo'Burg exchange. Disney and Haggis ( and no doubt others here at Kitco ) can tell you all the pluses and minuses of this stock.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:05 - ID#252127)
Heavy Hitter...........Swing for the fences

Many a time the Immortal Bambino created great windstorms as this true 'Sultan of the Swat' swished his mighty bat only to fall to bended knee in failure. But always to return to that golden plate and to the delight of many pole another into the upper deck.
A true HEAVY HITTER was the Babe.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:12 - ID#368244)
@ Heavy Hitter

I hope you don't wake up one morning and see gold limit up! Your fragile state of mind might push you over the edge. A few days of $20 dollar moves might make it some what more palatable however.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:14 - ID#284246)
APH - Silver

Many thanks.

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:16 - ID#403159)
Oh I see...... A double standard huh...
Please Ted, no concern is better than
any concern at least from someone
who has double standards. Thanks
but no thanks. If I need your help
I'II ask for it. What would you do?
Absolutely nothing.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:17 - ID#256254)
You were right. Next time I will listen to you.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:17 - ID#31868)
Ha, ha, aghhhh, ha,ha,ha 3rd paragraph
Monday February 23, 8:44 pm Eastern Time

Summers says China will maintain currency rates

WASHINGTON, Feb 23 ( Reuters ) - Deputy U.S. Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers said on Monday that China had the determination and the skill to maintain its currency rates in the wake of turmoil across Asian financial markets.

``I think the Chinese have made it very clear what their position is,'' Summers told an agriculture business conference when asked about the risk that China would devalue the yuan. ``We believe they have demonstrated the determination and skill ... to maintain that exchange rate.''

Summers also said he saw little risk of disruption to U.S. markets from any possible sale by Asian investors of U.S. Treasury bonds.

``As long as we maintain strong fundamentals I don't think we have a great deal to fear,'' Summers said. ``I believe that our fate is substantially in our own hands. I would not anticipate any large disruption.''

Summers reiterated that Japan should boost domestic demand-led growth, and commit to financial system reforms and deregulation.

Repeating U.S. policy, Summers said it was premature for Indonesia to set up a currency board for the beleaguered rupiah.

Summers urged the audience to support the International Monetary Fund, saying the lending agency has helped to contain the financial crisis in Asia.

``We have made progress. There are signs that confidence is returning,'' he said.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:17 - ID#22956)
The only bad days.....
Ted has had were when he bought gold stocks last year....... ( ugh ) ...Ted, you have been put in your bad boy. Heavy made a real fool of you. ( sure ) ... check the kitco stooooopid's now off the scale

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:20 - ID#31868)
Lawrence Summers is
living off all the unborn childrens wallets. Quick, cut down a few more forests for the paper. What a guy!

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:20 - ID#403159)
It's a bad day. Thats all. Sorry !!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:21 - ID#330175)
Heavy Hitter.............................
Hope you have a better one tomorrow~~~~~

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:25 - ID#41170)
Crystal Ball- You sure do give goooood advise!

Tally Ho

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:25 - ID#330175)
EB------a disclaimer.....(just to set the record STRAIGHT)
gold stock---not stockS.....go ABX ( you freakin dog ) arf arf arf

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:28 - ID#255190)
Heavy Hitter
Yeah. You finally figured it out. I was the third slug from the left in the chorus line. You also there leading the band, no? Slurp, slurp, slime, slime.

You are quite a bully boy, too. First, the contracts are on COMEX not the open market. So the contracts must be fulfilled there. Second. All the spot prices in the retail market are derived from COMEX and London. If they go wacky on us then the market literally will be a messy free for all. Third, you have not bought 2000 ounce of gold recently with an over night delivery have you??? IF so then say so. Say that it worked for you. Otherwise DE-SIST, dude. No one can deliver a tonne in 24 hours. People can't even get a couple of ounces in 2 weeks. When I order they order. Its always easy to come off challenging others to prove their case. That's easy work to make the other guy work. Prove your case. In Q&TR's case the COMEX process is failing. That is the market they are into and it is not working for them as advertised.

Please get off your high horse before your get yourself caught in a forked branch. But if not then I'll go get my video camera to record the event.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:28 - ID#288295)

DROOY ( Durban Roodeport Deep ) is THE maximum overdrive leveraged gold mining stock - a South African Company that is essentially a permanent call on gold.

Gold Newsletter did a 10-page feature in November on this stock, and their comment was that it was the best gold stock value in the world.

Their break-even price is gold at $325/oz, and on a $20 move in gold recently, the stock went from $1.50 to over $3.00.....I posted the GNL earnings forecast at buy-and-hold BB at quite some time ago....

GNL stated that the gold reserves of the company are approximately equal to number of shares, so by buying DROOY here, you are controlling an ounce of gold for about $2.25.

I have heard at this forum recently that the reserves may be 2.5 times as large as stated by GNL - so perhaps there will be even more leverage to the price of gold in the future with DROOY.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:29 - ID#330175)
EB....(just to set the record STRAIGHT)
In the past 12 months ( check the damn ) made $$$ on CDE + HM trades and loss on ABX is PAPER ( won't sell that doggie till he hits 25.625 ) ~~~~~~~~~~snarl-snap-

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:32 - ID#330175)
ALLEN------------you asked for it dude
DOW 10,000

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:33 - ID#288295)

OOPS! Earnings forecast is at

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:34 - ID#227290)
Time For Some Sanity
To All:
What are the markets telling us?
In silver, the 100-day MA stands at $5.81 and the 200-day MA stands at $5.25. So the price is still well above those, but could gravitate back towards them.
On the weekly chart, the stochastics have rolled over and are heading downwards.
The daily chart of Coeur d'Alene has a sizable gap between $9.25 and $10.00. The current price is $10.50 and the price has been moving toward that gap for two weeks. Failure to close this gap will be very bullish for shares of CDE. And that's my forecast as of now: the gap won't get closed.
A similar situation exists on the daily charts of SSC and Hecla Mining.

Gold has undergone a nearly 50% retracement of the Jan/Feb upmove. I'd like to see the retracement stop above $287, but any bottom above the Jan low of $277.50 will be a bullish development.
Several of the large NA mining companies saw their shares close at or near the high of the day today  a short-term bullish indicator.
On the weekly chart, we could very well be seeing a head-and-shoulders bottom form. If the current retracement ends above $281.50, we'll be in business.

The Jan/Feb rally in Durban Deep actually moved the stock well above its 100- and 200-day Mas. The MAs have now flattened out and begun to turn slightly upward. The share price has fallen down to them.
On the daily chart, there is a gap around the $2.10 level that is drawing the price to it. This gap should provide a bottom. And it's only 1/8 away from the current price. So DD could be poised for another rally.

The XAU has retraced 59% of its Jan/Feb rally. It closed right near its high today; short-term bullish. The weekly stochastics say it's about to bounce upwards ( once the red line falls toward a rising blue line ) . A head-and-shoulders bottom looks to be forming in the XAU as well as in gold.
Still, like in the gold market, moving above the 100- and 200-day MAs is the key. I think we'll get a test of that either later this week or in early March.

I don't know why all the pessimism here today. Two weeks ago the Dow gave a major buy signal. It shouldn't be surprising to see it rise. The Dow has showed great strength near the close the past two days.
NASDAQ and S&P500 hit new highs today and the Transports were very strong.

Still, although today wasn't quite a knockout blow to the dollar, it came close. An outside day of importance in my view, very bearish. It will take much for the dollar to rise above today's highs before it first makes a significant move downwards.

And the bonds don't look too good, either. No sir. The yield looks due to test the 100-day MA at 6.00%. That's not saying a lot, but we could be at the point of the recognition of a major turning point in the bonds.

Mixed signals aren't always bad. We just have to wait and see what shakes out. Silver looks to have further downside. Silver shares do also, but support is not far away. Gold is bottoming and this could be a major bottom. It's up, up, and away for the Dow. The dollar is fighting off the bear. And the bond yields look like they are basing for a major rise, but as yet there is insufficient data.

The Preacher

PS. -- Since there seems to be a lot of interest in ABX, let me take a look at that one and get back to ya.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:35 - ID#330175)
EB-----------Just to set the record STRAIGHT
'Shaq-foo' and lakers suk~~~~~~~~~~~~*go gold* ( April Gold now only down .20 ) ---

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:37 - ID#255190)

Sorry. Hope tomorrow is good and today is forgotten. Get some rest Samari!

We are all waiting for the world to catch up to us. Frayed nerves abound. Trying to take comfort in WB's positioning. One fine day we will be a happy lot. Until then a miserable lot.

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:39 - ID#403159)
I blew out all my platinum physical and gold.
Really, I didn't want to do it. I had a mental
stop and I pulled the trigger. I had alot at
stake and it wreaked me. I got in at almost
the bottom and now I'm out with squat.
The market will turn, but I think we are
going down first. The market is not
acting well at all. Not going to wind
up a very sorry goldbug. I see it
enough around here now. Well
I guess you know the feeling and
hurt. It's all greed though, lets face
it. We are our own worst enemys.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:40 - ID#432221)
reality check
I've been watchin' this site fer a couple o' months now, foolishly reacted to the sentimants and advice posted here. CAN'T SAY AS A SINGLE PREDICTION HAS FRUITED. Bottom line is, I've sunk all my liquid into physicals, and not seen sht for return.
I still believe PM would be actually be precious in the case of economic collapse, so I 'spose I'll just hold on to it for now.
Coulda made $12000 if I'd never heard of GOLD.
Bart, your automated censorship can suck my dicck!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:43 - ID#255217)
Once burned, twice afraid
Thanks to all for the reentry advice. My timidity about repurchase at higher levels ( in silver ) stems from past experience. I once waited nearly 18 months for silver to recover after I bought too high. I even made a small profit, but the hand-wringing and and self-reproof sticks in the memory. That was several years ago, but you don't forget. I think we are in a different ball game now. I SURE HOPE SO.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:47 - ID#255190)
TED, dude!
YOU are fraying my nerve. DOW it weak even in these ascents. Today's action was weak. A weezy little rally. So what. Poor performance for the begnning of a fresh new year. But "I love ya, man". That's OK. You can say DOW 10,000 all you want to now 'cause its just a matter of time before you are beating on timber in the USA. Farfel will help 'cause he's a like minded dude to you. DOW will help ya too. In DOW fashion put all the sticks together end to end on top of each other to the sky. Call it a home. But don't be toooo surprised if she fall down and go BOOOOM.

BB tomorrow.

GOLD 2200 DOW 3500, go gold!!!! Get DOW get!!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:50 - ID#22956) set the record straight......
gold had a bad day today. But it is nothing compared to the week it will have, or the month for that matter. Gold is still a buy, but only the physical.....only.

btw, that ShaQ-foo thingy hit me hard..... ( ouch ) ..... ( doh ) ....

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:52 - ID#403159)
Thanks !!! This has got to be one of
my worst days yet. I can be a real
knuckehead. Sometimes I swing
heavy and miss. I wanted to
stay in, but struck out.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:53 - ID#93199)
Fidelity Select Gold Charts
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )

UGLY Gold Chart!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 21:53 - ID#288295)

Patience, my man! The trend is up, but nothing goes up in a straight line.

And there were some of us out here who cautioned against betting the farm...remember?

Hang in there....March should show the way.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:15 - ID#310407)
@ 223, SSC trades
I've made 3 trades in SSC, each time buying at .80 and selling at 1.1 to 1.2 They were volatility plays that made 50%, 50% and 37% respectively. I'd have kept it up except SSC flattened and didn't want to budge off of 1.0 within a 1/16 or so for quite awhile until it exploded on the Buffet news. ( Missed that move...oh well! ) I pay $28 round trip so the comission has vert little meaning. Far less than 1% of the profit on each play, and my plays were small.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:17 - ID#93232)
The Uni-germer......
You will read soon about the horrible annihilation of strategic locations of Compaq, Hewlett Packard and US Robotics...anthrax and gonorrhea letter bombs delivered by unsuspecting UPS delivery boys...these forementioned zip-wits must die...they must pay for the dastardly deeds they have performed on my computer.....vengence is mine....for mine has been five days in the black hole without food and justice is on the way as we speak. Hate burns within me...and the their cruelty will be repaid many times over! Ha! Ha! Ha! 666 Studioiva.

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:17 - ID#403159)
Ugly is being too nice. Rolling straight down
off a cliff. Doesn't get no worse than that.
No wonder I sold my hand out. There was
nothing to hold.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:20 - ID#222231)
RIGHT ONNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:23 - ID#336297)
Getting on the Silver Train
Can anybody give me any information, ( or where to find it ) on a Co
called First Silver Reserve. Trades on VSE. FSR

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:25 - ID#42371)
@ Heavy Hitter- We feel your pain..
Most of us are hurting on this forum. My S & P puts are down ( and unlike LGB I cant even balme putz- sorry peutz ) , more gold stock debentures, 'the conservative way to play gold' are ddoowwnnn.

But hey we will all end up in the black hole- even the gleeful winners, even us miserable losers.

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:26 - ID#403159)
Cherokee no more

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:27 - ID#401460)
Heavy Hitter

Nerve Racking isn't it?

I bought Newmont @ 26 7/8 today, it will probably be @ 24 by the end of the week.

This investment thing is a l o n g term process. You just try to buy as low as possible and pray they will use Gold for something again.

If commissions are low enough one can go in and out with some safety.

But one has to feel comfortable and be able to afford the wait. The margin program using credit cards does make one a little nervous.

Everyone here always talks of the derivative leverage factor; Yet, On the other hand have you thought of how many people are on margin - on their homes, brokerage accounts, and credit cards? Mind boggling.

"Anyone is only two paychecks from the street"


PS: Man I wish I had a pay check!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:29 - ID#222231)

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:29 - ID#31868)
Rumpled - go read the silver master
got to golden-eagle, click on digest, click on the GOLDBUG, all about First Silver Reserve.

In addition, may I suggest Clifton Mining CFB

You will not find better info on silver than your will get from the GOLDBUG. I get his newsletter and updates and find them to be excellent and honest as the day is long, maybe longer.

FWIW I own oodles of FSR and CFB

Happy Hunting

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:30 - ID#22956)
you pissed?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:31 - ID#42371)
Boom economy- commodities crash!
HH and others. who would have foreseen that picture a year ago. Look a t most of these commodities are within 10% of year lows...

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:32 - ID#31868)
Rumpled and then click digest and look for GOLDBUG -

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:33 - ID#216251)
Bullish chatter
Reading the posts here tonight have been what I needed to LOAD UP on gold and gold stocks. Sorry, guys, but when the blood runs, it means the Bear is fatally wounded.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:34 - ID#42371)
If I was a contrarian and saw..all the negative gold sentiment
on this bullish forum-I would mortgage my house and buy gold-Lucky I'm not!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:34 - ID#31868)
These markets must just be driving you folks

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:37 - ID#403159)
Do you ever stop and wonder what
were doing here? Wish I had a clue.
Nick C. went down with Puetz and
the rest of them. Who's next? Now
instead of the S&P puts everyone
is long gold. Some of the guys here
never come back and for good reasons.
When gold takes out the lows, we
will witness a big turn over in posters.
The new kitcoties will take over and
a whole new bunch of losers will rise.
And the whole process just keeps
repeating it self.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:37 - ID#93232)
I am pissed all over....Like I told ya' would what do you have to say for yourself? Huh? I'm moving to Bangcock...where gold goes up every day and "computer" means a TI calculator.*

*I reserve the right to change my mind at any time and to not recall my previous position.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:37 - ID#330175)
Haevy Hitter.......................Yer DAMN right------------I'm my own worst ENEMY
But hopefully things will turn for us bugs~~~~~~I'm buyin more damn-it!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:38 - ID#330175)
Heavy Hitter -----sorry for spellin yer name wrong----------
I'm 'all shook-up'

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:39 - ID#31868)
I repeat NO NEGATIVE SENTIMENT here at Cuervo Central. You folks spend way too much time riding a razor blade.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:41 - ID#31868)
Most welcome.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:41 - ID#336297)

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:42 - ID#330175)
Studio.R -------------Say hi to my Brother Pete (the sleazy lawyer)in Bangkok
Watch yer wallet though~~~~~~~~~~

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:44 - ID#216251)
Preacher, I see !!!
Listen to the Preacher, man

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:48 - ID#403159)
Tomorrow I have my gold stocks to worry
about. I own a ton of Homestake and Ryo.
I was going to buy Hecla over Ryo and
now it's acting like the little old lady that
needs help crossing the street. Lucky for me
only bought a small stake in RYO piece of
garbage. I will blow them out if things are
not shining up. This might be a very nasty
ride on the XAU. You need roller steel balls
to ride the sucker.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:48 - ID#93232)
@ Teddo....
Will do on problemo on the wallet sellers already emptied mine. How do we get the "frames" version now?? I've lost all of my computer rig looks like a cheap Lionel train set...spread all over the floor. Chooo! Chooo!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:48 - ID#216251)
Double up today....Selling US T-bonds and buying gold

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:49 - ID#393224)
Heavy ? Hitter
"Nick C. went down with Puetz..."
I beg your pardon, mate. I sold my puts on October 28th ( mini-crash day in Oz. ) and nearly tripled my money. As you say, you are having a bad day, but you are also showing that you are a strike-out artist.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:50 - ID#30116)
XAU stuff....
Tortfeasor -- Does anyone REALLY understand the tax code? Oh, and wash sale rules???????? Who writes these arcane rules, lunatics?

All-- Consider this a piece of modern art and interpret it any way that you want to. Good night all...

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:51 - ID#42371)
Heavy Hitter- read this..
Just because we weren't dumb enough t pay 20-25 times the "future" earnings of the latest techno stock we are being penalised.

we looked for real value in preciuos metals and those that picked silver did well. The rest of us have got badly burnt because the gold mines and central banks seem to be falling over each other to destroy their major asset by selling at any price and undermining the trust in the inherent value of the metal. Meanwhile there are dumb and dumbers willing to pick up the above companies and think they have a bargain.

I have learnt two things from being on this forum. Most people on it don't know a lot more than me even though they might sound like they do. I lost the price of a good car from advice on this forum- but hey that's nobody's fault but my own.

Secondly the only people really getting rich in stocks, futures etc are the guys on wall street, the guys in the pits and the investment advisors that buy 1000 shares of MSFT for each account they control cause that's what some half-brain analyst says so his company can pick up more underwriting.

'nuf said?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:52 - ID#330175)
Nick@C-----------you don't know yerself mate
Join the 'loonie bin'~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:55 - ID#93232)
Pamela Anderson.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:56 - ID#330175)
Panda starTED this--------------yer charts are KILLIN MOI
no mas

(Mon Feb 23 1998 22:58 - ID#330175)
STUDio.R + Pamela Anderson
What are yer thoughts???????? is she a g-bug?---

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:00 - ID#93232)
P.A.=$500. gold piece

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:03 - ID#330175)
But what will she be worth tomorrow???

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:03 - ID#93232)
$500. gold piece=1998 St. Gooduns

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:05 - ID#403159)
What do you do when things go
south and looking around here makes
things even worse. Everything you hear
is the same but just carries a different twist.
And seeing some of the folks that where
here before went down with the ship.
Do you keep coming back for more?
I know you feel the same pain as I.
You own some of the stuff being pitched
here and then we get on board kitcotie bandwagon
to listen in. Hoping and waiting for a new breaking story
to sooth are discomfort. What I want to ask is
when does it end.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:07 - ID#216251)
I love it when I see those spikes up in the spot gold charts. Means there is life in old girl and she's telling us which ways she is going

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:08 - ID#93232)
A lot know how that is....

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:11 - ID#393224)
G'day Ted--"loonie bin" is right. What have you guys been drinkin'/smokin' and for how long. I don't get my first beer for two hours yet--this time zone problem has got a lot to answer for. When you guys/gals are mellow/melancholy/maniacal, I am still tryin' to make a buck on an open market. Never touch anything stronger than coffee when I'm trading--and even that has cost me thousands ( $$$ ) --danged caffein!!

Workin' my butt off tryin' to accumulate a particular silver share that has been overlooked. Humungously undervalued!! Got a few thousand and then the supply dried up. Got nearly an hour to convince some chook to sell me more!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:11 - ID#330175)
Heavy Hitter................and I feel yer pain too BRO...............*go gold*
But I don't think it ever ends ( this is like Chinese water-toture---drip,drip,drip~~~~~~ ) --I'm losin what little mind I have!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:12 - ID#93232)
@Heavy Hitter....
We are surely mad...this will not end until the fat lady flies.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:13 - ID#330175)
Studio.R.....yeah I know----used goods and all

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:14 - ID#373403)
Chinese water torture in precious metals
Fine, throw in the towel and kick yourself in a few years when we all double our money and you lose half of yours in equities.


(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:14 - ID#330175)
Nick@ C

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:16 - ID#330175)
Hey,I heard there was a massive POWER FAILURE in Auckland NZ
Did we lose Aurator?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:19 - ID#330175) are callous to 'our pain'
I'm kickin meself now and it hurts!!

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:20 - ID#403159)
You sold em. Thats bull. You rode it out till
they expired worthless. Go back and do some
research on your great calls last year. The stock
market had recovered and you were still short.
How come we don't hear about all your loses.
If you had any gains, take away the loses
and you got squat. Your down and you
know it. Ant'e up and quit lying. You come on
here like your some hero. Sht.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:24 - ID#93232)
@Oil Suks....
Midcon Sweet Crude= $13./bbl Oil/Ozarka Water Index: 3.88=1

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:29 - ID#335190)
MONSTER BANK @ JACKSONIAN DEMOCRACY - American Spirit - Productive Labor over Finance
Highrise: "Anyone is only a pay cheque from the street"
"{Margin-on their homes-brokerage accounts-credit cards-mind boggling ) "

1 ) Who should control access to credit ?
2 ) Who should determine the level of risk taking and the potential of the future ?
President Andrew Jackson ( 1829-1837 ) could be for sound money and, at the same time, be against the autocratic bankers who wanted to hold back American prosperity by restraining money and credit.

"The real people" wanted both.

Federal Reserve Corporation - As a matter of institutional history, the central bank was descended from kings, the inheritor of the Monarch's authority, and the proximate model was the Bank of England ( 1694 )

In the United States, however, the people themselves were supposed to be the sovereign. In 1913, the Federal Reserve effectively defined the permanent limits of American democracy.

1872 - Toronto Ontario "Ontario Workman " Newspaper. All true trade Unionists in Canada were either members of the Liberal-Conservative Party of adherents to it's policies.

May 16 1872 issue: "We stand aghast at the enormous mass of ignorance and apparently non-progressive elements composing the producing classes, that lays before us, and we feel half inclined to exclaim, can those degraded menials ever occupy a more elevated position ?

Poor fellows, apparently dead to all but the lowest animal sensations, eat, drink, sleep, and toil. "

Be Quiet...Consume...And Die. ( MONSTER BANKS - NOW INTERNATIONAL EH! )

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:29 - ID#26669)
Pete and LGB, thanks for the reply about SSC
Pete, I took the liberty of archiving your discussion about SSC trades. It sounds like a viable way of doing things and I thank you for the considered response to my question. I would hope at some point in my life to develop the knowledge and skill to do something similar.

At my stage of development I just haven't gained the expertise to risk real money day trading or short term trading. I've been accumulating SSC, waiting for the inevitable big move upward again. I hope to be holding it when it makes its big move upward

LGB, commisions are one thing but taxes are another. I think its too risky to do it that way then have Uncle Sam get the lion's share of it. Might change my mind if they get a flat tax or national sales tax, though.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:32 - ID#222231)
Would someone please give the definition of a HARDHEAD?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:33 - ID#401460)
Heavy Hitter

Why all of the anguish tonight things were a lot worse a few months ago - what has changed?

Just that we are back to 293, this is still better than 283.

RYO - and all of those other great companies, heck I own them all, and I will be darned if I will sell them when they are at the bottom or close to it. Bottom is the time to buy!

1. The economic cycle is about to change.
2. The president has a few personal problems.
3. The Mid East is still a powder keg.
4. The Asian crisis is not over.
5. The US is monetizing the debt of the World.
6. The Dow is at record over valuations.
7. MSFT is @ $85 x 2 = $170+ worth $45
8. Markets are flat on news of peace.
9. US Bond almost 6% when CRB, XAU, & OIL are down at record lows.
10. OPEC always acts when OIL moves below $16.
11. China is an unknown quanity, are they buying Gold, and will they devalue.
12. Japan has been taking a lot of hits - are they selling US bonds. I think it was reported that they have been selling for some time.
13. The posibility that a currency war will develope or already exist.
14. DOW 10000 maybe, 2:100 vs DOW 5000 possibly 50:100 - Think about it.

Now IMHO, where in the hell would you all rather be right now?

Me - At the BEACH!!!
Nah! they all are being hit by El Nino.


(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:34 - ID#31868)
ask Monica.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:35 - ID#330175)
'Breaking news'
April Gold @ UNCH

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:36 - ID#330175)
good one Tolerant1

The Hatt
(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:39 - ID#294232)
Heavy Hitter Fear No More We Have Been Here Before!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:42 - ID#373403)
Ted(Im not callous, I have callouses also)
I am holding tough in the face of recent losses. In fact I am going to have find alternatives to breaking into my wifes IRA in order to pay for recent medical bills. I will do almost anything necessary to avoid divesting my gold and gold stock holdings.

I am that sure that $280-$300 cannot be breached for any length of time if demand remains above mine supply as it has for awhile. I base that on $280-$300 being below the average cost to profitably mine gold.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:43 - ID#280245)
FT--Tues Feb 24, 1998

Asians were upset by this...

HSBC: Banking conglomerate increases bad debt provisions to $1bn
HSBC Holdings, the international banking conglomerate whose interests range from Midland Bank in the UK to HongkongBank in China, increased its bad debt provisions last year by 55 per cent to 617m ( $1bn ) , including a 175m special charge to cover the group against the uncertainty in its core Asian markets.

How will NYSE feel about this?
Waste Management: Analysts put charges at $2bn
Waste Management, the largest rubbish haulier in the US, is likely to take charges of more than $2bn against its 1997 earnings, when the figures are released today, analysts say.The Chicago-based company was dealt a blow late last year when Ronald LeMay, its former chief executive, quit after only three months in the job - with no explanation provided.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:44 - ID#26669)
Crystal Ball re Equity Analytics link
Thanks for the link. It is one of the ones I lost when my bookmark file crashed.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:44 - ID#257148)
Nope, I changed my batteries, I'm alright Jack...
Oh yes, power failures in auckland. The inappropriately named "Mercury" energy can only supply 10% of Auckland's CBD needs into the foreseeable future. Most offices are closed, some have temporarily re-located around suburbs. Restaurants & Retailers closing down, Several businesses claim they are close to bankruptcy ( 2 paychecks from the street )

Many apartment dwellers in deep trouble in CBD, no food, no water, no 'tricity. Only emergency services operating consistantly, Hospitals, Doctors...All other business including port are on shoe-string. Even our business, located a sane distance from the CBD has had 3 powercuts today, computers and telephone PBX's don't like powercuts. Had to drive through town today, floods, traffic lights out, iriots on the roads, took an hour for a 20 min journey.

Oh yeah, the drought of barely a week ago has been replaced with localised flooding, but not before I bought water....

The populace is a little pissed off...damned Mercury Energy has neglected its capital maintenance projects to "save money" The systems have all collapsed one at a time, only 10% of required power can be delivered, it may be weeks before full power is restored.

( Is this Bart's revenge? ;- ) )


(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:45 - ID#330175)
@ Cape Breton...............and boys will be boys....but I still say * go gold*

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:48 - ID#224149)
Can be done with a pen knife
Ted Speaking of rubbish men ----My Garbage man wears a mask and rides with a friend called Tonto. ---They had a bag of bre-x stocks going door to door and Halloween doesnt come til October ---Away to skin some Comex floor traders.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:49 - ID#330175)
Aurator ....and thank God yer not in the dark!
Aurator: Sounds like a grim scene but thank the good ( ? ) Lord that ya bought that!!

The Hatt
(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:49 - ID#294232)

Heavy Hitter
(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:49 - ID#403159)
The stock market is a monster. Ageed.
But look at MSFT it just keeps going
higher. And thats one of the many
darlings on wall street. In 5 years
this whole idea about the market
will blow everyones minds. What we
think will happen, may well be the
exact opposite. The fed is pumping up
the money supply to over come Asia.
If we don't see inflation from this stimulus
it will wind up in the stock market. With
major corrections along the way we could
be in for a 15000 dow surprise. And what if
gold is trading at $400 in 5 years. Someone
here investing for tomorrow in 5 years is going
to look dumb or smart. Gold belongs in
everyones portfolio, but it should be
no more than 10%. Anyone who thinks
they can beat the markets is in for a surprise.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:53 - ID#330175)
Poorboys @ Lake Simcoe(we have the same garbage
Slash em fer moi too!!!

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:53 - ID#26669)
Silverbaron & Preacher, another inane DROOY question?
You TA folk have any ideas about favorable volume numbers or daily trading range volatility numbers for calling a short term bottom for DROOY?

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:54 - ID#42371)
The hatt, High Rise et al
I think it will all sink or stand on the first quarter earnings. If they get hit by high dollar and asia then our party begins, otherwise we are still going to have to wait at the alter.. and as we can see some of our brethren have died waiting...

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:54 - ID#386279)
Heavy ? Hitter
Dear H?H.
My policy is not to respond to people in your state of mind. However, in your case I will make an exception.

First-- you may be confusing Nicks on this site. There are more than one.

Second -- I trade two kinds of puts. a ) Put options on the share market and b ) put warrants. I have been in and out of put warrants at least 20 times in the past six months--mostly on bank shares. Without 'putting' too fine a point on it, mate--I have made more money on these than on all my pm share dealings put together. I TRADE, mate. I don't just sit there and accumulate losses like you apparently do.

Here's hoping you will be able to contribute some rational discussion when you wake up tomorrow.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:57 - ID#330175)
To the Hatt
Thank God you have a roof

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:58 - ID#42371)
@ The Hatt- for your family's sake if not yours or ours- I hope you are right.

(Mon Feb 23 1998 23:58 - ID#280245)
FT Tues Feb 24, 1998

And then there is the middle east...

Israeli arsenal: US accused of double standards
During the standoff between Iraq and the US, one of the repeated criticisms by some Arab countries of Washington's policy towards Baghdad was its double standards.If, as President HOSNI MUBARAK of Egypt argued, the US was forcing Iraq to comply with United Nations resolutions, why did it not exert the slightest pressure on Israel over its flouting of UN resolutions.

And trade deficits--which seem to affect the CURRENCY of the country with the deficit--could that be?

World Trade: Chile: Trade deficit hits peso
Chile's central bank stepped in yesterday to shore up its currency after
reporting a sharp widening of its trade deficit at the beginning of the year.The central bank's intervention in the currency market succeeded in moderating the fall of the peso.