Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:03 - ID#339212)
Monetizing the debt

Please, can someone explain why this is inflationary and undesirable?
In plain simple English, how else can the government eliminate government debt?
I guess I must be thick and don't understand the mechanics. Please help.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:11 - ID#28593)
And a few words from Mr. Yen...
As I see it, the Japan of the postwar period has been a secluded country in one respect: seclusion from information. Or perhaps I should say it has suffered a seclusionism of excessive reliance on the United States. The Japanese have believed that they need concern themselves only with getting along with the United States, and they have felt they can get by with inflows of information routed only through the United States. Such a setup sufficed during the cold war, but now that the East-West split has been mended and globalization is progressing, a new opening of the country--an opening to information--is essential.

There are still many Japanese who cannot move beyond the cold-war mentality and kick the habit of seclusionist thinking. They are slaves to the conception that Japan has one of two choices: sticking with America or switching to Asia's side. As the globalizing process moves forward in the twenty-first century, however, we will need to remember that America is just one of many countries. The time has come for us to look upon countries like Indonesia and Malaysia in the same way as we look at the United States.

6Pak.Thanks.for.the.input We are long past Brandt, to say nothing of Marx and Keynes--all of whom, one suspects-- would look with disbelieving eyes at the paper mess through which we stumble. We approach the moment of dnouement...if JTF can just get our Alert List posted! {:- )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:11 - ID#401237)
Japan are bond net sellers

Tuesday March 10, 10:45 pm Eastern Time

Japan seen foreign bond net sellers in Feb,Mar-MOF

TOKYO, March 11 ( Reuters ) - Japanese investors are likely to have been net sellers of foreign bonds in February, a trend which is seen continuing in March, a Ministry of Finance ( MOF ) official said on Wednesday.

``Japanese investors are likely to be small net sellers of foreign bonds in February. Net sales of foreign bonds seem to be continuing in March as well,'' the official told reporters.

He said his predictions were not based on official data.

Japanese investors also continued to be net sellers of foreign stocks in February and are expected to be net sellers in March, the official said.

The official did not elaborate on reasons for Japanese net sales of foreign securities.

Net sales of foreign bonds by Japanese investors totalled 1.1563 trillion yen in January after record net sales of 3.4876 trillion yen in December, the MOF said earlier on Wednesday.

Japanese investors sold U.S. debt securities in February to take profits amid the weakness of the yen, MOF said in a statement.

Net sales of foreign stocks by Japanese investors totalled a record 345.1 billion yen, after net purchases of 60 billion yen in December.

Japanese investors became net sellers of foreign stocks due to a sharp fall in U.S. stocks amid worries about U.S. firms' profits being hit by the Asian currency crisis, the MOF statement said.


(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:18 - ID#153102)
First of all there is nothing, but debt. The currency is debt. The federal reserve note is a credit. But, the federal government offers bonds to the market to borrow credits from other nations or private parties and promises to pay back with interest. But, if the buyer sells the bond back and there is no other buyer for it, the federal reserve buys it and adds it to the national debt. The interest must still be paid. Those interest payments come out of the economy. Second, the bond credits were borrowed for a reason: to be spent. So, it is like unto a credit card purchase by an individual.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:18 - ID#34883)
5.00 x 31.1 ( 31.1034768 exact ) = 155.51 = $1.23 US, if the en is trading at 126.70 to the $USDollar. Multiply the amount per gram times the grams in a troy ounce ( 31.1034768 ) and then calculate the exchange rate in currencies. So a 5 en increase in the price of gold = 155.51 per troy ounce = $1.23 US.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:18 - ID#227290)
Mr. Disney
Thank you, John. You're a credit to your race and your society.

April gold is now up 11 yen per gram. So I guess that's a little over $2.6.

The Preacher

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:19 - ID#266105)
@blue moon

Out to The Silver Dollar here, mostly mexicans, injuns
& buggoes. Or is that bug-eyed Sprites. Guy gets thirsty.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:25 - ID#28593)
Mozel, re: new banking arrangements...
nary a peep! Keeping an ear to the door...{:- )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:26 - ID#340459)
Only in America you get 25% return on 4% GDP/GNP
Investors partied despite the recent angst about
earnings warnings from Intel ( NASDAQ: INTC ) and
Motorola ( NYSE: MOT ) . They also shrugged off a
stronger-than-expected jobs report Friday which
suggested an increase in inflation that might make the
Fed raise interest rates, or at least back off from an
expected easing this spring. And the latest bad news
-- from Compaq ( NYSE: CPQ ) , saying it expects first-
quarter earnings to fall below expectations -- came
only after the ebullient close.

What is going on? "You have a bull market, and people
are buying on the dips," explains Scott Fullman, the
chief options strategist at Swiss American Securities.
"There is a lot of money out there that still has to
come into the market."

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:29 - ID#227290)
Thank you, Mole, I'm both smarter and better looking than when I got up this morning.

The Preacher

PS. -- Tomorrow we'll work on getting richer.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:30 - ID#401237)
Mole & Preacher

I posted this earlier.
Gold Charts in Yen & Dollar

Interesting to see how Gold is doing better in other currencies.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 06:09
HighRise ( @ BOTTOM? ) ID#401460:
Copyright  1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Gold has bottomed and is breaking out in currencies other than
the dollar.
Multi-currency Chart

Gold lagging behind Silver.

PMs at critical point vs. moving average.

320 is a significant break out point. ( Another? )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:30 - ID#153102)
It is worth considering what silver will do when gold stops trading on the LBMA as I think it must eventually. When something is no longer on sale at any price, what thought will enter the head of the peopleo ?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:30 - ID#339212)
@ mozel

Thanks for responding my friend, but the next question is:

What is the difference if the government buys the bond vs. a bond that matures. Is it then the same thing?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:30 - ID#431263)
By the way 2bro2b the quote is "TO BE OR NOT TO BE?" Or auf deutsch, "Sein oder nicht sein? Das ist die Frage!" Are ya' havin' a debate with your alter ego? or simply don't know if you really exist or not or should exist if you don't? Ich weiss nicht!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:33 - ID#340459)
Has anyone read "Who will it Bill Gates/MSFT
It is Blue..

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:33 - ID#401237)

Not when you had to print funny money to do it.
It is the final bell for the last round.


(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:36 - ID#153102)
Theoretically. Except the matured bond would have no more interest due on it.
Fundamentally, debt cannot be paid with debt. That is why it really makes no sense ever to say the government pays off debt. If net credits are taken out of the economy, what will happen ?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:37 - ID#401237)

That is what Another said a while back - interesting to hear it now from another poster.

The PMs may not be able to trade - supply and demand.

Again if just a small fraction of the money in the market rotates to the limit amount of Gold and Gold mining shares - look out.

Let her rip.


(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:38 - ID#340459)
There are & colors in a technical dream
Today was Red

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:39 - ID#340459)
There are 7 colors in a tech dream
Sand is running out of BC's hourglass

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:40 - ID#233199)

Thanks for the charts in the mail - much appreciated.

Your comment about silver trading makes me wonder how completely you accept ANOTHER's premises ( if at all ) .. I'd appreciate you comments if you care to share.

At the very least I enjoy the thought of being an insider to world drama, and place my ( meager ) bets on ANOTHER's views. Kitco is the best show in town these days.

Steven ( )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:43 - ID#339212)
@ HighRise, Mozel

Thank you gentlemen for the clarification. It is hard to conceive why the government will purchase one of its unmatured bonds and still pay interest on it. One would think that after the purchase, the bond will be destroyed.

If the bond is not destroyed, how is it counted and where? I guess I don't see where the physical unmatured bond goes after it has been repurchased.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:43 - ID#431263)
3-8 days AND COUNTING!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:43 - ID#340459)
One only desires what one lacks
We are all fortunate and know not

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:44 - ID#340459)
@Peace Be unto you Brother..Good nite
Looking good and FEELING Good..

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:44 - ID#256254)
comex stocks
322,716 0 0 0 0 322,716
156,290 0 32 -32 0 156,258
479,006 0 32 -32 0 478,974

0 0 36,312,838
192,885 0 54,677,354
192,885 0 90,990,192

goodnight all

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:46 - ID#153102)
@SWP1 @HighRise
You may have missed my post of grateful thanks to ANOTHER. His information connects an awfully lot of dots.

I see no reason why silver trading would be discontinued just because gold trading was halted by squashed short bullion banks.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:46 - ID#28593)
Kindred Spirit...

The question of money
is primarily a question about freedom.

When people were free to choose
they universally chose gold and silver

Now we are forced to accept
the system of artifical money,
whose legal value is determined by the State.

"Money is any merchandise commonly accept
as a medium of exchange."
said Inam Malik

We propose to return to gold and silver
They are part of the Revelation and the Sunna
They offer stability and order.
They are the end of political money
They are the end of money manipulation


From: Abalbarr Brown
Murabitun of Madison, Wisconsin, America

"This is the state of man: to-day he puts forth
The tender leaves of hope;
to-morrow blossoms"
Shakespeare, [one of the Henry's, VIII i think]


(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:48 - ID#340459)
It is only a Dollar Bet
The sign is on the Back..

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:50 - ID#339212)
@ HighRise

If the metals stop trading in the LBMA and other exchanges, what good are coins to those who have them? They will be holding the most illiquid investment, I presume. At least gold shares will be traded easier.

And if it is bad for bullion holders, one should really feel sorry for numismatic coin holders, who now have to get a price for both the gold and the pretty head which so dearly have paid. Coin shops, their only outlet will have declared a bank holiday.

I rather be at the end of the phone doing the selling and to hell with the physical.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:54 - ID#153102)
I think it's mostly just bookeeping entries. Like stocks held in the account at a brokerage aren't really there.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 00:58 - ID#153102)
Things will resume after a time. There will be a market made in Switzerland. And then new values will be revealed.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:00 - ID#340459)
We all have to go back to the Ground in the end.
A friend of mine asked a passerby in Wall Street, Can you help me I am looking for Times Square, He was told "Keep on looking"

Love is always in small doses..

(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:01 - ID#401237)

The Bond could be destroyed, but the money used to buy it is still in circulation - decreasing the value of the currency. Theoretically there is no additional Gold to back up the newly printed money. Plus they had to sell a new bond to raise the money that just bought the last bond.

In the original equation, Gold does not have to be used as a security for the currency, a country's positive balance of trade serves as a basis for the value of the currency.

The US balance of trade has reached a disastrous massive negative balance; therefore at some point in time, and maybe soon, the World will start to question the value of the US $ and Bonds.

See earlier post, Japan has been selling US Bonds for several months now. If they don't finance our debt who can? The US has to buy it's own bonds or the World will know they have a BIG problem.

This situation has been unwinding for some time now and will begin to pick up speed just as all of the other crap starts to hit the fan.


(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:02 - ID#153102)
You owe someone else thanks for charts.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:09 - ID#340459)
No Copyright
Sun Microsystems [SUNW] surged 4 21/32 to 42 7/16, or 12 percent,
after Salomon Smith Barney upped the stock to a buy from an outperform.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:12 - ID#401237)

That was another thing that Another said, "only the real Gold not the paper would be of value."
It was something like that - it really bothered me at the time; because I can't quite figure out how Gold mining stocks fit into the story. Are they just paper or do they control the real stuff - the PMs?

It's to late for me now, I already have committed the farm to the XAU. I have some PM to get me out of town just in case.


(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:13 - ID#153102)
@Midas @Wall Street
It was not the golden calf, but the worship of it that angered Moses.

I saw a stranger, a black man, today who held the door. He said How are you ? I said, Fine, how are you ? He said, Blessed.

We ain't gonna' take it with us. Good night.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:17 - ID#31868)
A. Goose, thanks, finally, almost got the mochine
running right.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:19 - ID#339212)
@ HighRise, Mozel

So, if the government buys back an unmatured bond without issuing another bond to raise the money, this is DEFINITELY PAPER CURRENCY INFLATION, and is called "DEBT MONETIZATION" ( unless it is done with taxation ) .

If the government issues another bond to pay-off an unmatured bond, the net effect is zero ( interest was paid to the old bond and interest must be paid to the new bond, and if the interest rates are the same and the bond maturities dates the same, no increase in the money supply ) .

Mozel, until another exchange is established, paper must be used for transactions, or worst credit / debit cards.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:19 - ID#340459)
Bed Time reading,1237,101980309-3,00.html

Bill Buckler
(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:24 - ID#256381)
Privateer URLs Copyrighted?
High Rise ( 00:30 ) I see somebody is copyrighting my URLs now. Whatever next!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:29 - ID#401460)
Bill Buckler

Yea, I wondered about that - a copyright on a copyright on a copyright. You should feel honored with all that attention.

Well they will have to think at least twice before they rip off any of that stuff won't they.


(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:32 - ID#340459)
It is always in pairs, Brother
Black & White, Negative-Positive, Alive-Dead, Good and Bad.
Never look at the Sun in the eye, specially with Binoculars

(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:39 - ID#252127)

But government can simultaneously remove a simular amount of money from circulation.
With a very limited form or no fractional reserve banking the amount of debt might be controled.
Incentatives to those who receive cash from government bond sales might direct this money into proper avenues.
The fed would have to be abandoned for this to work.
It mignt be better than what we have now.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:42 - ID#339212)
@ HighRise

I have read all post of ANOTHER and can not figure him out.

Here are some thoughts and issues.

1. ANOTHER is AMERICAN and OLD. He talks that things will happen in "your" time.

2. His English is very good, so he must have been raised in America, but he has Islamic ties. I concluded this from his quotes of Islamic Wisdom.
Reading through his lines he often uses phrases which are indicative of precision and wisdom not often found in western culture. Also he uses the term "westerners" which separates him from us.

3. He appears extremely polite and a man with superior qualities. He is concerned for his fellow man.

4. He definitely thinks that gold mining stocks are a NO-NO!
He thinks that governments will nationalize the mines or impose heavy taxation.

5. A total currency collapse with unimaginable consequences could occur before yr. 2,000.

6. He uses many times the phrase "The Wealth of the Nations"


Back in the 70's I read a book "The Wealth of the Nations" - I think Harry Brown wrote it. I wonder if ANOTHER is Harry Brown.

I also back in the 70's read Myer's Energy and Finance. He was relating gold to oil a lot, hence the title of the Newsletter. Could it be that ANOTHER is Myer? He must be elederly by now.

I will show his posts to someone who is British to see if he has been educated in England or the USA. This man deserves my respect and intrigues me.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:43 - ID#401460)

I got lost in all of the bonds for this and US$ for that conversation.

If there are to many dollars out in circulation the bonds are not worth as much in value and the interest rate on them rises so that the issuer can attract more buyers - it is an inverse relationship. At some point the interest rate can spiral upward out of control - hyper inflation.

Japan has been playing the spread on their's and the US interest rates for years. Borrow Japan at 1% or less and than buy US Bonds and get 6%. Now they are selling - makes one wonder doesn't it?


(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:46 - ID#339212)
@ Jack

Of course it could and it would be nice, but this to me at this point looks like a "Dream of a summer night"!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:56 - ID#401460)

If you think Another's English is good, then he was not raised in America.

Arab with an English education @ Oxford - who knows. Doesn't really matter. Only the content of what he says really matters. Fun to read and think about if nothing else.

Interesting that a lot of the post recently are starting to confirm and clarify his statements.

Even all the posts regarding the Arab /Muslim appreciation and value they place on real money, PMs, and not on paper, ties in with the Oil for Gold theory he presented to us.

There has to be a real problem with oil at $14 and falling vs. Gold at $296 and rising.

Let her rip!
Good Night All


(Wed Mar 11 1998 01:56 - ID#339212)
Platinum and Palladium look good

Still some time left to buy some Stillwater Mng. ( SWC ) shares. I hope they don't forward sell and miss the big move.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 02:06 - ID#252127)

Forgot to add that we would have to have gold exchangeability and the government would have to certify gold reserves quarterly.
We would also require an elected Treasury with a rep from each state; each sworn to protect the monetary system of the US.
If enough people insisted on change we would get it, if we don't this can go on indefinately.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 02:07 - ID#233199)
Could someone please explain.....

......what volume it takes to make the spot price spike down like it did on the chart an hour or so ago?


(Wed Mar 11 1998 02:17 - ID#339212)
@ Jack on convertibility

Convertibility will not happen in the US, because, too many government parasites are against it and most Americans have been brainwashed to consider gold evil.

Good night all.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 02:29 - ID#339265)
Look Out Below...ROYAL OAK is screwed!!

Wednesday, March 11, 1998

Royal Oak hit by work stoppage

B.C. orders halt at Kemess project after payment dispute

Vancouver Bureau The Financial Post
Cash-strapped Royal Oak Mines Inc. was scrambling yesterday after the British Columbia government ordered it to stop
work at the vital tailings area of its Kemess gold-copper project.
The order followed a payment dispute between Royal Oak and Knight Piesold Ltd., the Vancouver engineering firm hired
to provide management systems for the mine's waste disposal pond.
After Knight Piesold withdrew its workers from the site, B.C.'s Energy & Mines Ministry was forced to intervene so
environmental safety would not be compromised.
News of the dispute is the latest blow for Royal Oak, which is trying to generate cash by getting the mine into production
next month.
Yesterday, the stock ( RYO/TSE ) rose 5 to close at $1.72, well below the
52-week high of $5.
"About 30% of the activity at the site is being affected,'' said Don Zadravec,
a spokesman for the B.C. ministry.
Knight Piesold director Ken Brouwer said his company is in the midst of
discussions with Royal Oak about paying its bills.
 "They are trying to get us our outstanding monies,'' said Brouwer, adding
his staff won't return until the issue is resolved.
A second company, Tercon Contractors Ltd. of Kamloops, B.C., has also
withdrawn workers from the tailings site.
"There were some financial problems and we are not involved in that project
any more,'' said a Tercon official who asked to not be named.
"There were also political problems, but I can't go into any details.''
While calls to Royal Oak's Kirkland, Wash., head office were not returned,
there is growing speculation the company may seek more help from the B.C.
government, which agreed to contribute up $166 million to the Kemess
The funding was provided as part of a compensation package after a
decision to halt development of the Windy Craggy copper mine in B.C.
Lorne Grasley, a director of policy research at the B.C. Mining Association, said he doesn't know of any approaches
from Royal Oak, "but it's something I'd keep my eye on.''
After hearing rumors of the Knight Piesold dispute, worried U.S. investors were phoning Royal Oak yesterday to find
out what was going on at Kemess.
Sources have told The Financial Post that after failing last week to secure a $30-million equity financing deal with
Toronto-based First Marathon Securities Ltd., Royal Oak chief executive Margaret Witte is in talks with the company's
U.S. debenture holders.
Scott Levy, an analyst with Bankers Trust in New York, said as far as he knows, Royal Oak is still making interest
payments on US$175 million of high-yield notes.
However, he said his clients are still extremely concerned about the future viability of the company. "This is a very trying
situation,'' he said.
While another Canadian contractor said he is optimistic Royal Oak can get Kemess into production, the project "has been
a terrific cash drain for them.''
"My understanding is that all they need to do is run a power line through to their mill and they will be able to start
generating cash,'' said the contractor.
Knight Piesold also remains confident it will get paid eventually. "I have been in contact with them and there is some hope
something will be resolved fairly shortly,'' Brouwer said.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 02:31 - ID#401460)
Myrmidon (@ Jack on convertibility)

The currency can't go back to real PM valuation; except for the nuclear arsenal and the aircraft carriers there is little backing the US$. The US is just a gun for hire - but a big gun.

What may happen is the Euro $ may assume the role as the world currency. As the US $ slowly falls in world value as did the English Pound.

This condition will not and can not continue as is. The laws of economics and human nature are still at work.

There are real truths, laws and spiritual forces at work in all of this. Things do not remain the same.

I enjoyed your post and,
Good Night All


(Wed Mar 11 1998 02:39 - ID#339265)
ROYAL OAK today...ECHO BAY and TVX tomorrow...
...the Canadian gold industry is shutting down!

Serves the idiots in Ottawa right. If one of the leading gold producing countries in the world sells off most of its gold reserves, then guess what happens to the price of gold.

It falls through the floor ( Duh, that's right, Gomer! ) .

Oh, well, Ottawa can use all those proceeds from its gold sales to pay unemployment insurance to all those thousands of gold miners that will be walking the streets soon.

Oh...and one more joke for the night....Mulroney ( the guy responsible for selling all that Canadian gold ) is now chief lobbyist for Barrick. ( Barrick the next annual meeting, I suggest you raise some very sharp penetrating questions with your demigod, Munk )

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 02:40 - ID#401460)
farfel RYO

Thanks a lot!
A nice note to send me off with.

That gives me another winner .

RYO better get their neighbor Bill Gates and the boys to chip in.


(Wed Mar 11 1998 02:44 - ID#252127)
A Tremor in South African Mines


(Wed Mar 11 1998 02:45 - ID#252127)
A Tremor in South African Mines

(Wed Mar 11 1998 02:57 - ID#257148)
Another down under miner putting on a brave face Macraes

(Wed Mar 11 1998 03:08 - ID#257148)
To Jim---

The blood in the streets is up to my elbows...

(Wed Mar 11 1998 03:10 - ID#284255)
Avid chatter for the full moon buffs
Thursday is a full moon, Friday is option expiration

Full moons dont move markets as hard as new moons, but they do have some effect especailly w/OE day Friday

As you learned above, full moon days close up 83% of the time. AND that is the worst day to be short, as the average drop on a full moon day is only 20.10 points on the Dow. BUT, shorting before the full moon does much better. The average cumulative drop during the three days BEFORE a full moon trading day is 90.40 points. That's the equivalent of over 10 points on the OEX. AND, the best day of the three to be short, or in puts, is the day BEFORE the full moon, which averages dropping 35.20 points.

BUT, if you really want to go for a big lick in puts, study this. The average cumulative drop in the week ( 5 trading days ) after a full moon is 168.80 points. That's 19 points on the OEX and not bad for a weeks work. The best day to be short is the THIRD day after the full moon trading day, which averages dropping 72.50 points. The second best day to be short is the FIRST day after the full moon trading day, which averages dropping 35.60 points.

Of the 15 biggest one day drops in 1996 so far, 11 of them were within the time frames examined by our computers during the full moon each month. Ten of them fell in the "week" after the full moon.

Making 10 out of 13 of the biggest drops hitting after the full moon. All other things equal, we know of no better time to be holding puts. Only once in the past year has holding puts right after a full moon not worked very well. That full moon was also a "Blue Moon", proving once again that that old saying of "once in a Blue Moon" really is something unusual.

ANOTHER updated with his latest call.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 03:15 - ID#339265)
@SHAREFIN...BLUE MOON... left me standing alone...

Sing it, baby!

F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 03:34 - ID#252127)
If a gold producer can mine cheap enough - contrary to popular belief.......some can do it

Paying their miners in gold weighted coin of 90% or higher but based on the actual gold content is an automatic profit.
It would even allow a cushion for year end payroll squaring based on a fluctuating gold price and give them a benevolent image.
The above with along with worldwide production problems for gold mining would make the CB's cringe as the amount of gold being sold into market would fall considerably.
Mining towns will likely accept the coins and keep them in general circulation.

They can even provide attractive well struck coin with a mineral concoction that would make meltdown very costly.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 03:46 - ID#35767)
If the work stoppage occurred yesterday and the financing fell through last week/ Why did RYO file a anti takeover poison pill last week. Seems a little inconsistent ie you dont have enough cash but you want to thwart a takeover. Why was the price up yesterday when it must have been known that there was trouble?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 03:52 - ID#317193)
Sometimes it is to easy to trust and believe the "thoughts" of "Another" when you are being told what you want to hear. I will be gone for a week and unable to veiw, with interest, the posts here. I hope upon my return not to find disappointment. Gold will rise or fall based upon what already is, not based on the words of one you know not. How the hell can you respect, admire,or for that matter ,believe someone you do not know. Another might be shooting straight with us all but you will not know that until after events unfold. DO NOT BUY FOOLS GOLD. Trust only your own investment decisions-you have to live with them. The way the posts have been reading lately "ANOTHER" could sell the Brooklyn Bridge to some of us. Tell me: Do you trust your spouse as much? Open your minds eye and see that which is in front of you. May all your limits be UP. Tom

(Wed Mar 11 1998 04:00 - ID#339265)
@ROR...RE: ROYAL OAK.. its anti-takeover poison pill....
...provided depressed Kitco Forum members their biggest laugh in over a year.

The only people who took the "joke" seriously were investors with absolutely no knowledge of the gold industry.

( Although rumor has it that RYO bigwig, Witte, was concerned her newsboy might be contemplating a $2.00 bid for the company...I don't mean $2.00 a share however...I mean, a total aggregate all cash bid of TWO BUCKS for the entire company ) .

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 04:01 - ID#284255)
Good for a laugh?
"The Gift"
A young man wanted to purchase a gift for his new sweetheart's birthday,
and as they had not been dating very long, after careful consideration,
he decided a pair of gloves would strike the right note: romantic, but
not too personal. Accompanied by his sweetheart's younger sister, he
went to Nordstrom and bought a pair of white gloves. The sister
purchased a pair of panties for herself.
During the wrapping, the clerk mixed up the items and the sister got the
gloves and the sweetheart got the panties. Without checking the
contents, the young man sealed the package and sent it to his sweetheart
with the following note:
"I chose these because I noticed that you are not in the habit of
wearing any when we go out in the evening. If it had not been for your
sister, I would have chosen the long ones with the buttons, but she
wears short ones that are easier to remove. "These are a delicate shade,
but the lady I bought them from showed me the pair she had been wearing
for the past three weeks and they were hardly soiled. I had her try
yours on for me and she looked really smart. "I wish I was there to put
them on for you the first time, as no doubt other hands will come in
contact with them before I have a chance to see you again. "When you
take them off, remember to blow in them before putting them away as they
will naturally be a little damp from wearing. "Just think how many times
I will kiss them during the coming year. I hope
you will wear them for me on Friday night. All my love.
"P.S. The latest style is to wear them folded down with a little fur

(Wed Mar 11 1998 04:04 - ID#317193)
Lowering the money supply
AG is not dumb-could he be planning to mop up all the excess liquidity thrown into the economy by the Fed by simply allowing the markets, bond and stocks, to fall significantly? He did warn everyone you know. The bubble is getting even bigger than I imagined-watch out. Farfel, I still agree with you-that ought to worry you some. Tom

(Wed Mar 11 1998 04:06 - ID#35767)
You may call it a joke but that still doesnt answer the why ques it is almost misleading if they knew that there was trouble if this turns out to be serious. Further, it is interesting that all of this trouble is happening just before the mine opens. WHEN WAS IT KNOWN THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A WORK STOPPAGE? Comments?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 04:08 - ID#339265)
Final words on ROYAL OAK...
...RYO your lawyers because I think with this poison pill nonsense, you have rightful cause to sue the company for stock manipulation. IMHO.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 04:18 - ID#284255)
Patience is a virtue - possess precious if you can.

Don't fret, I will be there yodeling
At your side at the appropriate moment.
Time is surely running out.
Guess we just have to wait till
ANOTHER turns the hourglass upside down.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 04:23 - ID#339265)
Most recent gauge on GOLD/SILVER sentiment on this forum...
...the latest survey reveals

ZEBRAS ( neither bears nor bulls ) 9

This data is non-scientific and merely observational.

F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 04:33 - ID#316193)
Aussie Govt. Official Owns-Up to Y2K Problems - Rest Of The World Take Note

(Wed Mar 11 1998 04:40 - ID#266105)
@url munni er ur life mr bennie

mmm fergit wut i wuz gurn to say

(Wed Mar 11 1998 04:53 - ID#266105)

That's what markets are, one big argument. Not worth that,
is too. Not. Too. Great, love your petty bickering, better'n
taking it to the streets.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 05:42 - ID#266105)

What the hell, there's some cool stuff on here. Here's
an oldie, poetry break fum memory.

Into Wishin'

To hone the razor's edge of ambiguity
Cheated from the poker table
Drink prayer from the Indian springs
Flowing in the soul of America.

To sail protecting seas of ignorance
Be borne in tides of indifferent value.

To steal through the guarded looking glass
Wallow in the wonderland of wealth abandoned.

To fast until tomorrow for the feasting
On the odd heretic burning finely at the stake.

To hunt thieves of gifted treasure
Buried in cavernous skies
Keep far from safety children
With stardust in their eyes.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 06:18 - ID#411331)
@AA: Has anyone else noticed the wild ride silver is getting on world metal exchanges today?
Oscillations of 20 cents per oz, characterized by flat tops and sharp bottoms on the Kitco 24 hour graphs suggest thin trading with major support below $6.20 but little upside pressure. Comments anyone?
I am just a novice at this game, so any insights would be greatly appreciated.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 06:33 - ID#26793)
C. Verne Myers passed away several years ago. His book, "World Rollover" ( Falcon Press ) is well worth a read if you can find a copy. He was bullish on gold in the early years but turned bearish about 1985.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 06:53 - ID#238295)
POG ignoring bad news
Gold down jujst slightly this morning despite strong rise in dollar index. The yellow's ability to shrug off all kinds of bad news is very encouraging.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 06:59 - ID#252391)
Good Morning America
Good morning America. Silver and gold drifting lower in Europe and Asia. Will the US traders bid this stuff up or was the last few days another blip on the bearish radar screen. We certainly can see what tight supplies will do to prices: witness Platinum and Palladium. Were that only the case with gold and silver. In silver's case that in fact may be but the recent 2 million rise in stockpiles doesn't help our story.

This being long the medals is a try of patience. The deflationary environment we live in doesn't seem to have an end, all conspiracy theories, aside. Currencies are being printed like mad, yet all the public has a yen for are American stocks. Someday this may change but indications that it will be soon rely more on hopefull perspectives than
imperial fact.

Still think Silver will see $5.80 before $7.00. You Americans will have to show me some follow through to yesterday's rally to convince me otherwise. Prove me wrong - make my day.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 07:09 - ID#26793)
FLASH! Hashimoto to visit Indonesia this week at Suharto request.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 07:10 - ID#252391)
Rhody's spikes
I rather think the spikes in silver are most likely KITCO computer problem related. Other quote sources don't show the volitility. The market looks to be absorbing the higher dollar and waiting to see if the big players will keep up the buying in New York. It's a technical market and a failure today will have all the longs running for cover. On the other hand follow through on the coat tails of Plat and Palladium could give a run to last weeks highs. Boy would that be good to see. Nothing against the law - dreaming on your own money.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 07:21 - ID#26793)
Fed Vice Chair says Indonesian problems at worst possible time for Japan

(Wed Mar 11 1998 07:32 - ID#284255)
More recent Y2K articles
Some good urls about 1/2 way down the page.


(Wed Mar 11 1998 07:35 - ID#26793)
13 banks owed money by Indonesia form committee

Mr. Mick
(Wed Mar 11 1998 07:53 - ID#345321)
Platinum prices
Saw briefly yesterday that Russia will not be able to deliver platinum it has already sold. Is this the true story on Platinum's rise, or is there more? As I recall, some months ago they announced they would not be able to deliver beyond 1998.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 08:02 - ID#330175)
Looks like another grim day.......................for gold
April Gold down 1.10 @ 295.40 ( but at least the weather )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 08:08 - ID#410194)
Gold & Silver news
The consortium talks are going on among key mining interests but one has to wonder if it gives good or bad press to gold?

We learned overnight that Japan reserves of Gold stood at 1.14 billion at the end of January and given their economic blight, some people started to contemplate for a possible liquidation annoucement from their part too sometime in the future.

The overall trade also seem disappointed that foreign markets failed to add once again to New-York gains of Tuesday.

Delivery notices were less than 100 in Silver which is hardly additive the the gains made in futures on Tuesday. But there is little fundamental news at this point and for now, it seems to come down on whether the current longs are going to risk delivery.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 08:29 - ID#330175)
The US Dpllar is soarin(thankx to widening scandel in Japan) and gold is---
Tanking~~~~~~April Gold down 1.60 @ 294.90~~~~S+P Futures up 2.30

(Wed Mar 11 1998 08:30 - ID#330175)
Can't spell dOllar..etc ..etc

(Wed Mar 11 1998 08:33 - ID#341189)
IMF backing off Indonesian demands. Caught between Suharto and Congress.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 08:53 - ID#330175)
Royal Oak Article(ugh)

(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:01 - ID#341189)
17 posts since 6:00
Is this the calm before the storm?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:04 - ID#258427)
Carl ... it certainly is the calm ...
Not sure about the "storm"...: )

Bully Beef
(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:08 - ID#259282)
Y2K Problem pumped up by media
On TV a Canadian journalist,Wendy Mesely, debunked the Y2K problem as media hype. One of the leading "authorities" on the problem was cornered and he more or less admitted he was just in it because he got 7000bucks per speaking engagement. When asked the specific hard questions he qualified everything by" could" and "maybe" and "that's not what I said exactly ". I mean I could be wrong but I suspect computers will just roll over a 00...and then blow up! And gold will hit 10,000 bucks .

(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:11 - ID#287338)
This is the calm before the storm. Get ready for some kind of down fall in the stock market next week. Maybe even a mini crash. As to what this means for gold next week is unknown. It may drop with the rest of the market as in the past market drops. But somehow I think it will rise this time. Things are different. All this turbulence is very good for gold long term however.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:14 - ID#251268)
calm before the storm
Like I posted yesterday not much worth getting up at 3 am
for in the gold market these days but glad I did today took
advatage of this little dip and got june 310's and 320's
as long as they are just about giving them away NOW gold
go~~~~~~~~~~side note clone 22.45 post yes. oh well nobodys perfect

(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:17 - ID#287338)
Get em while the getns good!
Excellent time to buy some options with the low volatility!

Bully Beef
(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:23 - ID#259282)
Big palladium and platinum moves.No?
Any significance? Yes?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:30 - ID#251268)
APH silver
I think you got stoped out hard luck sometimes its like
those guys can sniff out the stop orders but what I wanted to tell
you is I was following silver since yes.and it hasn't spiked
down like the graph shows ( at least futures ) anyway I think
you have the right idea on silver ,Larry williams says 540's
even h'm a little to volatile for me now I got to stick with
the ugly sister that nobody and I mean sure seems like nobody
wants to dance with GOLD

(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:31 - ID#287338)
palladium and platinum
I don't feel that the palladium and platinum moves mean much to gold and silver. The same thing happened last year around this time. It's a game that Russia plays. If anything, it may mean a drop in silver and gold as precious metal investors jump to palladium and platinum for a quick buck. These days it seems that there are only a few of us precious metal investors to go around. Gold will have its day.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:43 - ID#25588)
Amazingly my silver stop was not executed yesterday, confirmed this morning, even though it was the print high. I've often recieved fills better then my limit orders but rarely a missed execution. This is a good example, if your orders are placed at support and resistance and you have the patience to wait for the market to come to you, you'll have little if any slippage and better fills. I'm still short May Silver at 627.5.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:57 - ID#287277)
Thoughts whilst waiting for coffee...

The HongKong picture a few days ago, of the newly minted silver and gold coins-- an 8,000 run--the unstated truth: once a coin has been struck, the molds exist, are in place, how much more difficult to have an 8mn run? The silver coin appeared to be about the size of a one ounce US silver dollar of old, which means it is VERY close ( i.e., one ounce of silver ) to the HongKong dollar~USD peg. Unlike other commemorative coins, these newly minted coins pictured a Chinese leader--as does the Peoples Money--renminbi.

There seem to be an increasing number of new PM coins which do not circulate. Yet another anomaly.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:59 - ID#328159)
Blow-off Peak Link
"5 weeks to '29-like Peak, 12 to Crash?"
If this theory pans out, physical gold's your friend.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 09:59 - ID#251268)
APH good news
I think that the high or low of the day could very well just
be a trade or 2 and maybe even stay there for a matter of
seconds.You must have had the trade planned well cause when
you posted about it silver had just paused on it's 2nd attempt
to break resistance ah the quick and the dead it's good to
hear of somebody who picks up the phone and calls in the
middle of the fray,so now I asume you have moved your stop
down to your entry level or are going to soon,I guess with
a 4 1/2 pt stop it's not too critical GOOD LUCK

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:01 - ID#372262)
XAU Speedbump[

Augur called the XAU top at 79. Now looks for pullback to 68 before resuming wave three back toward 91.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:05 - ID#237149)
Good move. Iwas going to short silver yesterday evening but decided to wait after your 6.40 suggestion. Looks like we're seeing some profit taking this morning. Silver is already below $6.20. Not sure if it will head further down or if it may come back up again today. If it does I'll be shorting silver with close sell-stop.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:09 - ID#25588)
jman silver
Moved the stop down to 6.25. My sister in law just bought a house on the big island. Where are you at?

gert frobe
(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:12 - ID#43147)
George Soros ?
Guy Rothschild?
James Bond?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:25 - ID#57232)
US - Inflation first, then deflation
All: I remember 1993 when G Soros and James Goldsmith were buying gold. About that time, there was a major currency crisis in Europe, and both gold and US dollar went up. This time gold tends to go down or is flat when the dollar goes up. Not exactly bullish for gold.

What really worries me is that, with so much of the world's trade in dollars, a dollar rally at this time might be the coup de gras ( pardon my French ) in Mexico and South America, and might trigger another round of devaluations in SEAsia. More gold fire sales pending?

Question: Could a dollar rally right now trigger a massive flight of capital to the US markets, after a foreign market collapse? What will AG do? Try and stop the US market bubble? If the rest of the world's markets are in trouble, what could he need to do to stop the money flow? This reminds me of the great New York power blackout when a squirrel apparently tripped a relay in Niagara Falls, causing power to surge up and down the power grid for several minutes-- higher and lower each cycle, until -- one by one all the big generators blew out -- 'Big Alis' ( Alis Chalmers ) in NYC was never the same since. I think this is what is happening to our world financial systems, as investors are rushing from market to market, trying to find a safe haven.

I think the parallel to the US in the 20's leading up to 1929 is becoming more and more evident. I wonder -- perhaps it is too easy to think of the private and FED US bankers who managed our money supply in the 20's as incompetent. Another explanation is that they may have been swept along by the tides of events, just as we and AG are right now. Perhaps those infamous US bankers panicked and raised rates near the end in 1929 because they were trying to stem the mad flow of cash to the US markets. We may have already had our fried squirrel -- but the sequence of events takes years to follow through.

By the way, with the LBMA only trading the equivalent of 5% of all daily US dollar trading, I am not that concerned about the LBMA shutting down due to defaults of some kind. That may cause gold to 'twitch', but it will not bring down the world's equity markets. The gold traders will just start over in a short time, or set up shop in Istanbul. The Rothschilds will always have a pace to trade -- 200+ years of gold trading will not go up in smoke -- now matter what happens to the LBMA.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:28 - ID#251268)
APH Big Island
I'm on the poor mans side,east in the puna district by Keeau
it's pretty beautiful especially during this dry spell.The
rich guys like Kona and the sunsets and we get the rain and the
sunrise,although GOD was showing off yesterday had outrageous
sunset on this side ( maybe the vog ( our version of smog from volcano ) )
Houses and land are cheap this place directly linked to asia
and run by a bunch of tax and spend jerks so the economy sucks
but I can get a monthly pass at the golf course for 32 bucks
7 days a week unlimited and my kids are surfers and thats free
so I gotta wear shorts and alippers year round somebodys got to do it

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:29 - ID#201131)
Looks like one more gold company is in trouble with its creditors. Ryo is struggling to survive. Check the SI page for more details. The company working on their tailings pit left the company yesterday and wont come back till they get paid. What a mess.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:31 - ID#341189)
Partly guided by your posts over the last several months on China and partly by logic, I'm convinced that China is committed to creating a solid, PM based currency which will be worthy of their future dominant economic status in the world. They are patient and willing to take incremental steps, playing a long term game for long term stakes. Out of here for the day to make a little money the old fashioned way. Thanks so much for your contributions to my education.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:43 - ID#284235)
( C. Verne Myers)
Was not aware C. Verne Myers had passed away. I subscribed to "Myer's Finance Review" ( his newsletter ) from 1967 'til about 1975. Your post @ 06:33 prompted me to pick a little book from my collection titled "THE QUIET CORNER, Philosophy of Investment", that Verne published in 1968 ( he autographed the copy for me ) .

During that time-period Verne understood what was happening to the US$, pending inflation, oil, gold and silver. He most certainly called the shot on the '70s oil crisis.

Thanks for the reference to his book "World Rollover", of which I was unaware.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:43 - ID#287358)

My persosal feeling is that setiment is improving towards the gold stocks. I not selling out every time there is a bump in the road. The majors have done well in the last few days. In other gold bear markets the majors always went up first. If you sell out, you always seam to get the dogs that are left over when the rally starts. $394 is a bargin and there's not much more to figure out. I prefer to be a value investor than gambling on swings at low levels. Go luck to all.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:44 - ID#251268)
Goldd holding up
well ( to echo someones earlier post ) considering the number
1 nobrainer indicater of late ( acording to me ) the dollar/yen
the yen is down about 120 dollar is up and golds not moving
much if this market ever moves ( and it will ) should be a lot of
energy stored up I'd guess quick 20 to 30 dollars a oz 1 way

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:52 - ID#410114)
yesterday RJ said that silver was going to get wacked. Silver is down today but not as much as RJ had thought.

My prediction is that RJ will announce that he was buying silver hand over fist today.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:55 - ID#342282)
Commodity Fut T C
Anybody got a phone # or URL? If so TIA

(Wed Mar 11 1998 10:55 - ID#318321)
It does look like RYO is having cash flow problems. However they are tight with the providence and from what I understand the only thing standing in the way of production is a power line. Remember there are potentially a lot of jobs on the line there. I suspect they'll get production going. Whether they can service all their debt is another story. A rising price of gold would help in that regard. Don't count RYO out yet.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:10 - ID#187218)
BullyBeef@09:08,,,, glad to hear I am not a lone voice in the wilderness,,,,,

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:15 - ID#340459)
Folks, How is the health of Vengold (VEN,T)? Thanks ...
Any comments would be appreciated

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:16 - ID#280215)
April Gold Hourly Charts
From the For What It's Worth Department,

Never been too good at hourly charting since I don't really keep info at this level, but I was just in Quote.Com and selected Live charts and displayed April gold from 5 to 60 minutes studies. It sure looks like for the last 3 days, an upward pennant has formed ( in Elliott terms, an A,B,C has completed to the upside ) . This morning, gold gapped down on the open and is forming a small pennant. Applying what I would normally see on a daily/weekly chart to these hourly charts, it looks like gold is going to fall out of bed any minute now. Question is will it fall out of bed and roll down the stairs or fall and get back up. Looks like the stairs based on chart action. Don't know how accurate standard studies are at the hourly level.
Anyone else take a look at this? Thanks for you input in advance. I can't believe that I'll probably get a copyright for this jibberish.

John Disney__A
(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:24 - ID#24135)
Say the Magic Word ... Goldbank
For Oliver..
Thank you for the Placer Dome Announcement... I think the
whole Forbes article was crapola.. It NEVER made sense..

For Mozel ..
I have trouble following your view that deBeers relies on
Governments ( other than Russia ) to maintain diamond prices.
But anyway ... the Magic word is "GOLDBANK" ... just say it
and the price goes up.
I see where Anglos did send someone to the imaginary
non-meeting. Probably to see if Munk ( ey ) was as big a
jerk as they'd been told. Also if anti-trust was involved
all the people attending would go to jail ( except them
of course )
Steve gave me a good talking to this morning about how
it could never happen because the US - Japanese - European
CB wouldnt be in it ... what else is new .. How about the
South Africans the Saudis the Russians and the Chinese..
Im now talking about a competing international Banking system
based on NEW gold mining and from sales. The end of the IMF.
Camdessus ( sp?? ) on the corner selling pencils. They want to
sell their gold?? .. I think buyers could be arranged IF they
had a separate banking system and a different reserve currency
and reserve base. How come only the West can CREATE money and
no one else can ??

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:27 - ID#187218)
MyTHOUGHTS! regarding the reason for ANOTHERs latest post......
Whatever occurs in the next week one certainty that will surface is the "REACH" ANOTHER has to move the market. If activity within the past few days and upcoming days is greatly increase ( options on gold stocks, physical purchases, etc ) then ANOTHER will realize what he/she has going. If not, ..... now this is ANOTHER game that will be played ,,,,, IMVHO.....

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:27 - ID#408147)
FWIW: Never been much of a believer in short-term charting. Too many
factors come into play during a market day that have little/no
correlation with longer-term prospects. I do like the short-term
charting combined with volume analysis to clarify off those highs/lows
of the day/week. With e-waves, it's just too easy to see things that
aren't really there in a short term analysis...

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:35 - ID#25784)
Thank you for your technical comment. I agree with the downward scenario. A full moon with lunar eclipse one night after tonight on the heel of today's retrograding Pluto will give all markets varying sorts of jolts. April will retest 285-287. Then the bull will shake off the straw.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:37 - ID#286230)
Royal Oak
Lotsa Problems:

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:41 - ID#153102)
GoldBank. Is there any other kind, really ?

DeBeer's relies on the benign neglect of governments. Interesting series of federal cases from time past regarding the diamond marketing monopoly. Illustrative of benign neglect.

On gold mines. Is Harmony's nifty little refinery upscalable ? Dividends in Krugerrands is what is wanted.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:45 - ID#335190)
Bank of Japan @ Chief falling on one's sword ( Mr. Greenspan next???)

March 11, 1998

Bank of Japan raided, chief may have to go

TOKYO ( Reuters ) - Prosecutors on Wednesday staged an unprecedented raid on the Bank of Japan, arresting a senior official in a bribery scandal that could topple the head of the central bank.

"That's the way it works in Japan. The top guy takes responsibility for the misdeeds of those below him," said Kenneth Landon, senior currency strategist at Deutsche Morgan Grenfell. "It's the ritualistic falling on one's sword."

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:46 - ID#280215)

Thanks for input. I never just look at one time frame. I looked at weekly and daily indicators and for the hell of it looked at hourly. Taking it all in together was why I asked if anyone else saw something similar. Based on the daily and weekly indicating downward bias ( IMHO ) , it looks like downward on the hourly, although probably for a short time as Aura mentioned. The monthly charts show more of a bottom than the daily & weekly, indicating that the next downward shakeout might be the final one for a while. We should find out soon today, if there is anything to hourly studies

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:46 - ID#288157)
Donald, have you anything on this, other than the pap handed out?
Hong Kong Business Standard, Wed Mar 11, 1998
IMF's blackout on news raises hackles on Hill

The International Monetary Fund was criticised on Capitol Hill for ordering journalists covering a seminar with bankers,
economists and foreign diplomats to delay filing reports on the conference for two days.

Sound and fury, signifying nought???

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:50 - ID#365216)
hold what you got, accumulate cash, and see what falls out for 98
Is there any good/safe investment today? Real Estate, gold, the
Dow, PM stocks, collectibles? ASk 100 people and you'll get
100 opinions. I'm keeping what I got even though they ( the PM
stocks ) are all current losers and I am waiting to buy Platinum
coins with what I can save from now on. I still think collectible
firearms are good but, like gold, the threat of possible confiscation by

PH in LA
(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:52 - ID#225408)
Myrmidon: I hope you pick up on this when you next come on line.

You seem to grasp well that the content of the post is inextricably interwoven with the identity of the poster. ANOTHER has fascinated me also. What I find even more interesting now is how Allen ( USA ) and Mozel are saying exactly what ANOTHER said long ago. They arrive at their conclusion by analyzing numbers, whereas ANOTHER's conclusions purport to draw on insider knowledge. ( Mozel's and Allen's numbers were not available when ANOTHER first posted; it was after ANOTHER posted that the revelations about the LBMA's daily trading figures were disclosed. )

I also picked up on ANOTHER's reference to "our" military in the ME but as I recall, he only mentioned that theme once. It occurs to me that perhaps it was a typo that should have read "your". After all, that would involve only the addition of one letter, a mistake on the order of which we see here every day, nay, even in nearly every post. This would not lead me to conclude definatively that ANOTHER is American ( or allied with the west ) .

ANOTHER has frequently spoken of value and even devoted an entire much-anticipated post recently to this theme. "Value vs. paper","Things that have real value", "how the gold in strong hands lies very quiet" etc. I found it interesting talking with my wife, who is Spanish, about this and her reaction reflected how gold retains its value no matter what. "We will still have the gold, no matter what happens eventually." It is interesting to note that the Spanish pesetas I still have from my first trip to Spain in the 70's which have long since been repudiated by the government and have no value whatsoever. Gold, however, would have retained its value very well, thank you.

Your conclusion that ANOTHER must be middle-eastern because he understands this and therefore must be muslim needs further consideration. My own feeling is that perhaps he somehow is presaging the inevitable switch into tangibles that we all assume ( with reason ) must someday occur.

As to ANOTHER's age and his comment that "this will happen in your lifetime": Doesn't he also mention once that it will happen in "our time" when he mentions that the revaluation ( to $30,000 ) will only occur once but that one single time will be enough?

I find it uncanny how perfectly ANOTHER's posts agree with an article posted by Sharefin at 01:54 on Feb. 25, 98. Since ANOTHER speaks in parables and metaphors much of the time there has always been much discussion here about just what he might mean. No so the post from one Dennis Birch although admittedly a somewhat fictional recreation of purported events. By examining what seems to be the existing situation, he ( Dennis Birch ) reaches conclusions that fit perfectly with ANOTHER's scenario based insiders' revelations. I have not seen much discussion of this comparison here which seems to me a major oversight when trying to uncover ANOTHER's identity and message.

In any case, I applaud your interest in ANOTHER and hope others will continue to question his identity. Clues certainly do exist. Perhaps with enough careful thought we can clarify a little his identity and motives.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 11:55 - ID#288157)
Carl--And my thanks for the contributions
you have made ( and will make, I've no doubt ) to mine!

For me too, the logical seems inescapable. Their's is a complex, fascinating history. Incidently, heard from Jin, with the intelligence that Tian Yuan, [Chairman of China's International Futures Engineering]
name means source/energy. Doesn't add a great deal to our 'useable'
knowledge base, but an interesting sidelight...{:- ) BBL

(Wed Mar 11 1998 12:06 - ID#57232)
There is yet ANOTHER question - who is right? ANOTHER or FV?
Ph in LA,mozel,Allen ( USA ) : We are now readdressing the question of the LBMA 'paper' volume vs physical metal volume. I think -- Allen -- you brought up a 100-to-1 ratio?

My question to all of you is that Frank Veneroso -- one of our most respected gold guru's -- thinks that only 1/4 of gold's price is from paper gold trading. So -- who is right? ANOTHER, of FV? Also -- has anyone directly posed this question to F Veneroso? Namely, what does the LBMA volume actually represent? I think FV would be able to give us some interesting answers.

I resubmit -- the LBMA is just a large gold trading house -- mothing more -- and it has survived over 200 years. There may be some commotion if the LBMA closes shop for a little while -- but after a short period of time it will open up again. Those Rothschilds still have their gold, and they will want to continue the gold trading.

Mr. Mick
(Wed Mar 11 1998 12:08 - ID#345321)
Mitsubishi has stopped dividend payments.........
Tuesday March 10 6:13 PM EST

Mitsubishi Motors Braces for Loss

By Edmund Klamann

TOKYO ( Reuters ) - Mitsubishi Motors Corp., Japan's fourth-largest carmaker, said Tuesday that a
double blow from sluggish domestic sales and Asia's economic crisis would result in its first loss in
24 years.

The company also announced a number of cost-cutting measures, including trimming executives and
closing a Thai factory in an effort to slash costs by 350 billion yen ( $2.75 billion ) over the next three
years and return to profitability by next year.

"To date, our company has sought to secure profits chiefly by increasing volume," Mitsubishi Motors
president Katsuhiko Kawasoe told a news conference. "We consider it imperative that we establish
a profitable financial structure through the implementation of radical reductions in costs and assets."

The company projected a parent current loss of 23 billion yen ( $181 million ) in the year to March
31, its first loss since the 1974/75 fiscal year and a reversal of its forecast in November of a 35
billion yen ( $276 million ) profit. Last year's parent current profit was 58 billion yen ( $457 million ) .

Current profit is pretax and includes non-operating activities such as investments in securities.

The company also said it would suspend its year-end dividend payment, originally set at 3.5 yen per
share, and record a group net less, forecast at 110 billion yen ( $866 million ) , for the first time since it
was publicly listed 10 years ago.

Mitsubishi's balance sheet fell victim to a protracted slump in Japan's economy that has battered
domestic sales and forced carmakers to trim production.

According to the Japan Automobile Dealers' Association, domestic vehicle sales last year fell nearly
5 percent to 5.11 million, while in the first two months of this year they were down a steep 22.8
percent from the same period last year.

Mitsubishi was also hit by the Asian currency crisis, which triggered a sharp drop in sales at a Thai
unit that still had U.S.-dollar loans outstanding in connection with construction of a new factory.

Mitsubishi estimated it would record a 39 billion yen ( $307 million ) special loss this fiscal year due to
foreign exchange losses.

The company was already reeling from a racketeering scandal, which culminated in the arrest of
three executives last October on suspicion of making illegal payoffs to corporate racketeers.

Mitsubishi halted most advertising in Japan for one month due to the scandal and in November its
president was replaced by Kawasoe, then a managing director.

A Mitsubishi Motors unit in the United States had also been embroiled in a sexual harassment
scandal that resulted in a U.S. government suit against it in April 1996.

"Mitsubishi Motors currently finds itself in a very difficult situation," Kawasoe said. "With less than a
month remaining in fiscal 1997, we shall spare no effort to achieve even the smallest improvement."

(Wed Mar 11 1998 12:18 - ID#345176)
@ Donald, @ Fummer @ sharefin and HOT BATHS

Donald, thanks for the info. A friend of mine is manager in a library and he can probably get the "World Rollover". I wonder if the movie "Rollover" had any relation to the book.

Fummer, Thanks, I will also look for the "Quiet Corner"

Sharefin, your 04:01 joke it was very good. I needed the laugh to destract me from RYO!

@ ALL : TODAY IS MY HOT BATH DAY. I OWN RYO AND HATE HOT BATHS. Need your sympathies and compassion.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 12:28 - ID#345176)
@ PH in LA

Guess what I just picked up on ANOTHER'S post!

He is answering to Delphi, Sat Mar 07 1998 15:47

Mr. Delphi
...Oil has a very short history when compared to gold! I would say, my oil should be replaced with gold for that time to come!


MY oil!, MY oil! My oil! - THE ARAB CONNECTION?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 12:35 - ID#410198)
As dealer let me say this again,this relic of the past is getting hard to get,
there used to be a time when I could call my suppler and get what ever I wanted,now he tells me what I can get,this is reality,

(Wed Mar 11 1998 12:37 - ID#153102)
Are there banks in S.A. which are not part of the SARB system ? Is S.A. Constitution online ?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 12:40 - ID#269245)
From his posts, I have always thought that he is Russian. Does it really matter??? - c

(Wed Mar 11 1998 12:46 - ID#345176)
@ clone

No, of course it doesn't matter, but I am curious. Don't think he is Russian. I sense a lot of Islamic wisdom and calmness. There are others on this forum with similar attributes, John Disney is one.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 12:54 - ID#365216)
to Clown
I didn't know John Disney was Islamic?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 12:59 - ID#340344)
Myrm...(Another's post)
I think he was postulating, "If I were you" I would go for gold rather
than hang onto oil.

If I were "Another," and I was pure of intention, I would not appreciate the constant attempts to identify me. If he genuinely wants to help, he has his reasons to remain anonymous, and would prefer that we not make a game of trying to identify him. While I am as curious as anybody else, I am stifling my desire to guess in print. I don't think it is helpful to anyone here for us to compromise his situation. Let's don't take a chance of having him disappear for any reason.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:00 - ID#340459)
1) Japan CB's Head Honcho being moved out 2) Taiwan's Chief died in air crash
with other CB brass 3 ) Suharto removed his man recently.

Asian CB scene is changing.........Fast

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:02 - ID#251268)
Islamic wisdom and calmness?
h'm I'll have to take your word on that~~~~~~~~~or do I?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:05 - ID#340459)
There are only 2 True Colours in a chess game,1237,101980311-clinton,00.html

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:07 - ID#345176)
@ ChasAbar

Your point is very well taken and I stop right now. Thanks for pointing it out. Even if ANOTHER'S $320 gold prediction is wrong, I still think that we can all benefit from his analysis, I for one will ignore his prediction and concentrate on the analysis aspect. But, if his second prediction is also wrong ( if and when he makes one ) then he will lose his credibility.

No more profile search on ANOTHER, I promise and please forgive me if I irridated anyone of you. My apologies.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:12 - ID#280245)
Mozel, I found Standard Charter Bank of interest....
specializing--as their London ad says--in Africa, Asia and
the Middle East. The corporate ownership and links to gold were impressive, and the 'outreach' awesome.

This may not be what you are looking for, on the other hand, it is worth a look! {:- )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:17 - ID#340459)
Pay Kofi the US overdues to UN of $1.7 billion. They should rejoice at his work rather Lott and DNC
are both holding back purse strings..They got them both now

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:20 - ID#340459)
Does Gold need prayer or medicene to recuperate ? Answers Anyone

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:21 - ID#153102)
@SDRer Bingo. Thanks.

John Disney__A
(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:21 - ID#24135)
One Ounce Harmoniums- I like the sound of it
For Mozel .. Why Krugers .. they can make their
own money .. how about Mozelrands??
You must remember that the SARB links with
the West are much weaker than many countries,
having been screwed rather badly by Citibank
in the late 80's when Citi refused to roll
loans over. The local banks are all tied to the
SARB but Stals is not one of the IMF puppets.
RSA is the Worlds biggest gold producer. That
means a lot more to them then the IMF.
Im sure the harmony refinery is upscalable
- but they dont want to start shutting down
the SARB Rand refinery which is maybe 20
times bigger and refines for most of southern
Africa. Thats upscalable too. Who refines US
gold production ?? and Australian ??
I would guess the constitution is
online but I dont know where.
Much is made of the fact that gold doesnt
earn interest .. but does cash held under
banking regulations earn interest?? I just
want to substitute GOLD for cash reserves
at the local bank level and REMOVE it from
CB. Am I being silly and why ??

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:25 - ID#410198) are kidding of course,the only place for the UN is the bottom of the East river

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:29 - ID#153102)
Harmoniums and Rangyiums and Durbaniums sounds great to me. Real cash.

Is there any common ownership in this Standard Charter Bank PLC SDRer has located and any of our favorite mines ?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:30 - ID#426220)
Possible Path to discovering the Link to ANOTHER's ID

PH in LA, Myrmidon, ChasAbar, Allen ( USA ) , clone, Mr. Delphi, JTF, Mozel

Go to the Alta Vista :

Then type in & ENTER the the Middle-Eastern name: Abu Bekr al-Rashid

Click on the first couple of entries shown.

Once at the destination, scroll down until you run across the name

again of: Mr. Abu Bekr al-Rashid


(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:32 - ID#269245)
Your post @ 1235 is more significant than I first realized. Could you please explain when you first began to notice this interesting supply phenomenon? Could this be because of a change in your specific supplier's business resources instead of a universal change in supply? - c

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:34 - ID#257148)
Standard Chartered, Deferred Settlement Trading, Middle East, Gold

Some months ago I posted:

Date: Sun Sep 14 1997 05:51
aurator ( @ double take ) :
Umm. I found this in virtual Threadneedle Street, it is all news to me,perhaps not for kitco. Wouldn't mind playing poker with this deferred settlement thing, all sorts of possibilities. Trading on the LBMA, is this paper on LBMA volumes???

Deferred Settlement or Account/Account trading as it is sometimes called, is a system which has found favour, in particular, with Middle Eastern traders. It is, basically, trading with no fixed settlement date.
d ) Settlement of the account occurs only when the customer liquidates his position, in which case profits or losses on the Dollar account must be settled in full; or when a customer wishes to take or make delivery, in which case full delivery and settlement are made, as though a spot transaction had taken place.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:36 - ID#340459)
@robnoel. Kofi defused a situation that could have cost all sides Billions more than what US owes UN
Surprisingly there is unity of both Poles ( Democrats/Republicans ) as they both want Fireworks displays without realizing that you get burned if you sit close to the Fire......

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:37 - ID#280245)
Mozel--some more pieces for your puzzle...
Directors are:
A K Mazoka Chairman ( Chairman, Anglo-American Zambia )
J A H Janes Managing Director ( Standard Chartered Bank )
W C Irwin ( Standard Chartered Bank )
G J Bender ( Zambian commercial farmer )
C A Keljik ( Standard Chartered Bank )
S M Malama ( Zambian lawyer and businessman )
D C Mulaisho ( Zambian businessman and ex-Governor, Bank of Zambia )
C. Wheeler ( Standard Chartered International )

During the course of the year, Mr. J. D. Logan, Ms. J. Pope and Mr. A. V. Thursby resigned as directors and were replaced by Messers J. A. H. Janes, C. Wheeler and T. Tsui. Subsequently, Mr. Tsui retired and has yet to be replaced. The Company Secretary is Mrs. J. Tembo. Mr. W. C. Irwin has been appointed Area General Manager -SOUTHERN AFRICA FOR STANDARD CHARTERED BANK. He remains a director of SCZ, but has been succeeded by Mr. Janes as Managing Director.

See also--The Standard Bank of South Africa

This covey is arguably more powerful than SARB...and linked--one might say TIED-- with MAJOR, MAJOR gold producers.
Have fun! bbl

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:43 - ID#280245)
Aurator--Isn't THAT a delicious savory?
Yes, I believe that is a silken thread. Many of the ND exotic currency derivatives are set-up the same way. Don't think such as we will get a piece of that action! {:- ) bbl

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:45 - ID#410198)
Clone,tight supplies were first seen in numismatics about 6months ago try and find
MS 60 Saints or Liberty's currently Ms 62/63 are a 4 to 6 week delay,the amazing thing is Can.Mapel ( bullion ) are now also 4 to 6 week delivery,now you can look at this two ways major Numis/bullion dealers holding back on product looking for higher price, or smart investors hoarding,take your pick

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:54 - ID#26669)
I'm frankly shocked at the price of palladium!
Apparantly the carmakers are willing to pay more after all! IMHO

Also I noticed that all the various shares I own of gold, silver and PGM mining companies are universally depressed in their trading volume, FWIW.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:54 - ID#339265)
Volume through the roof on ROYAL OAK...Say Goodbye!!!
Huge volume spike in Royal Oak as all the institutional investors flee for the exits. Identical volume spike that occurred just two days before PEGASUS declared bankruptcy.

Total loss of confidence in the WORST gold company in N. America ( ECHO BAY is a close second ) .

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:56 - ID#426220)
Second Clue to the Identity of ANOTHER

PH in LA, Myrmidon, ChasAbar, Allen ( USA ) , clone, Mr. Delphi, JTF, Mozel, SDRer

Go to the Alta Vista :
Then type in and ENTER the acronym: LBMA
Click on any or ALL of the titles shown -- 1 through 17

(Wed Mar 11 1998 13:58 - ID#410198)
Midas...don't buy the media hype,UN saved the US because of failed
leadership from the White House,you should read George Washingtons farewell address,once the US abdicates it's sovereignty to a foreign power we are all in deep dodo

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:00 - ID#339265)
ROYAL OAK shareholders should be furious...
...poison pill anti-takeover device was a flagrant example of stock manipulation in the worst sense.

The only company interested in taking over RYO is BRE-X...and we know what financial shape it is in.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:02 - ID#266105)


(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:10 - ID#340459)
The Japanese are losing hold on Worlds Top 25 banks listing priority, In next 5 yrs they will lose
Auto Industry as they lost the computer chips War..Alarm Bells ?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:11 - ID#252150)
Farfel@Re:RYO--I hate to say I told you so-- so I won't
There is still some hope though, wretched Witte is twice the man that our patsy of a Premier is, so she may be able to extort more money out of

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:12 - ID#340459)
@robnoel, maybe you are right Brother..Who Knows

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:14 - ID#339265)
@JAMES...I disagree...ROYAL OAK is finished...'s game over for the pig lady!!

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:16 - ID#31868)
The UN S_CKS! and that is my polite version.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:17 - ID#339265)
@JAMES...I understand ROYAL OAK will be entering another business...
...they're gonna sell bullsh_t to the tree nurseries across British Columbia.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:19 - ID#252150)
John Disney@Your 11:24
You ask "How come the West can create money & no one else can".
He who has the strongest currency & the most powerful military rules.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:20 - ID#410198)
Midas and all I have to admit,that I'am a charter member of the (VRWC)
vast right-wing conspiracy,therefore am biased,just as I question the motives of the UN,right now the biggest threat to this thing called FREEDOM is the Multilateral Agreement on Investments,we could all become serfs to Transnational Corporations

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:22 - ID#345176)
@ farfel, @Vronsky

I asked for your compassion because I happen to own the dog RYO.

But, you are cruel.Next time one of your dogs goes under, you will feel the heat. I will beat you without mercy. Tell us your stocks.

vronsky, I printed all articles and I will study them in detail ( 10 on the LBMA expose ) . Thank you.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:23 - ID#339265)
Final ROYAL OAK prediction for the day...IMHO...
...look for last half hour PANIC SELL OFF with major volume uptick.

Stock should close somewhere between .25 and .30 cents ( u.s. ) with volume of over 4 million shares.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:24 - ID#238295)
Today's drop in POG not surprising considering the sharp falloff in the yen. As Asia goes, so goes POG -- at least for now.

Was listening to one of our popular music radio stations here in Palm Beach when they ran an add pushing gold investments. Yes real gold. Call an 800 number and get a free copy of "The Great Gold Comeback. This kind of thing will multiply many fold when the PM bull market begins.

Many here have stressed the decisive penetration of moving averages and trend lines in determine when the PM bull finally begins. But we must also watch open interest very carefully. We need rising open interest with rising prices for a genuine gold bull with staying power. As long as rallies largely reflect short-covering, they are suspect even if trend lines are penetrated with conviction.

Looks like stock market is following Armstrong script of a move to near 10,000 by spring. But Armstrong then expects a drop of as much as 40%. Important not to wear out one's welcome. BTW, Armstrong also projects new records for POG a few years hence.

Important to remember that the two biggest POG bulls of this century -- the 1930s and 1970s -- followed the two biggest stock booms -- the 1920s and 1960s. The higher stocks go today, the higher POG goes tomorrow.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:33 - ID#289357)
farfel @ Bre-X takeover

Ha! You are a nice piece of work, F* ( the unpronounceable ) .....

at least Bre-X had some gold on the sign in front of their building....

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:36 - ID#269245)
robnoel - I pick... investors hoarding!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:38 - ID#26793)
President will veto IMF bailout bill if abortion string is attached

Ed Fishbaine
(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:39 - ID#190195)
currency boards

It appears that the IMF is backng off in its demands and will make some concessions to Suharto regarding setting up a currency board. Why is the IMF negative on a currency board? Two possible reasons:

1. The intent of the IMF is to bail out the Western and Japanese banks at the expense of the Indonesian people just as happened in Mexico. The currency board will not accomplish this.

3. More important: A successful currency board in light of the dire straits of the the Indonesian financial debacle would send a powerful message to other Oriental countries. Essentially a currency board is a close cousin to the original gold standard prior to derivatives and fractional reserve banking. A well run currency board replaces the Central Bank of the country and eliminates manipulation of the money supply. Western banking hates currency boards and views any resemblance to a gold standard as anathema. There is already much antipathy to the U.S. and IMF and grumblings about setting up an all Asian monetary system. What would be the reserve backing for such a system? The dollar? With the hatred for dollar diplomacy so intense in Asia?

Any thoughts?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:39 - ID#252150)
They sa y that compulsive gamblers really want to lose
I think I had better join Gambler's Anonymous. I have been saying for months that Japan is in worse shape than most people could even imagine & therefore the JY should weaken, which is bad for AU...And yet I had to ignore the logic & buy ABX again.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:41 - ID#26793)
My last post is the most recent IMF news I can find. It is not unusual for public officials, agencies, etc. to embargo news for release at a specific date or time. The press almost always honors the request.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:45 - ID#238295)
junior golds
Just as the juniors did not climb with the seniors yesterday, they are not being hammered with the seniors today. FSAGX down less than 0.5% as XAU drops 2.5%.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:47 - ID#339265)
...before the Asians ever let America screw them over again the way it did by inspiring Asian confidence in American dollar reserve holdings.

There will be a NEW currency in can count on it!

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 14:47 - ID#153102)
If JY goes the way of the rupiah will AU follow it ?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:04 - ID#269245)
And now for a word from our sponsor ...
"In past years, approximately 95 percent of the currency notes produced were to replace worn and damaged notes removed from circulation. The remaining 5 percent of the notes produced were new currency notes that the Federal Reserve issued into the economy to increase the money supply."
- excerpt US Treasury FAQ's page
Are these elected or non-elected officials who get the honor of "increasing the money supply?" I wish it was me! - c

Mike Stewart
(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:05 - ID#270253)
Royal Oak Mining
Disclosure: I bought a small position in RYO at $1.75 late last year.

I checked into some RYO stuff, and guess what I found out. The B.C. Cabinet Minister who orchestrated the Kemess deal in August 1995 was Glen Clark, Minister of Employment and Investment. Today he is Premier of B.C., with a socialist government trying desparately to prove that they can be pro-business. They want this thing to work and it should...unless there are some things happening that none of us know about!!

This should prove interesting.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:05 - ID#30970)
"..before the Asians ever let America screw them over again the way it did by inspiring Asian confidence in American dollar reserve holdings."

American dollar reserve holdings are worth as much as they ever were. Americam banks accounted for a small fraction of foreign lending to Asia, less than 10%. A fraction of that of Japan and Europe.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:12 - ID#339265)
A global U.S. dollar standard is what screwed Asia.

The fact that U.S. banks are not the primary lenders in Asia is a non sequiter and completely irrelevant to Asia's current "need" to bolster its U.S. dollar reserves under the current currency status quo.

Asians need to hold their assets in a stable Asian currency...not in U.S. dollars, which only serves to maintain the hegemony of American interests in Asia.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:20 - ID#255217)
I beg to venture the opinion here that silver is building a base between $6 and $6.30 that will provide a springboard for a leap up through $7 and into the $8 region before 1 May. After all, this IS a marketplace for opinions is it not? I could be wrong of course. I have been wrong before. If I am , then OUCH! Or else what are opinions for? I wish I felt equally positive about gold, but I think it took a lesson from the Sphinx and just sits there, waiting...

Mike Stewart
(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:21 - ID#270253)
It is 3:20 and I have been watching minute by minute RYO trading in Toronto and New York. Volume has dried up for now. We are waiting for your prediction to prove itself or fail.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:22 - ID#252391)
Right on its butt
So much for yesterday's glorious rally. Silver failed to carry through, gold fails, XAU reverses, the dollar is strong, the DOW continues to rise, and the only good thing that can be said about PM investments is that they are not crashing, YET!!!

If Silver get another big move into stocks and or if deliveries were not taken, I see gap down through $6 headed to $5.50.

I should be short it's so much easier to make money in the PMs. The great rally may eventually come, but given the picture I see it'll be awhile and there will be plenty of advance warning - like gold and silver being able to rally two days in a row would be good.

Bulls take cover.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:24 - ID#206379)
Royal Oak
I find it hard to share Myrmidon's opinion that Royal Oak is a dog. I believe it's Kemess project was subsidized by British Columbia with up to 166 million Canadian Dollars. Whatever it's price does today I'm going to hold. With their new infrastructure and mineable gold reserves, I believe their chances to survive and prosper are better than the U.S. Dollar.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:26 - ID#330175)
James---------------face it-----------------yer-------------

(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:29 - ID#31868)
When gold and silver make a move the next time it
will be quick and up, not DOWN. There will be no warning, there are no charts or methods that will indicate the move. It will simply happen.

There are no rules, money is moving here and there at an unprecedented pace never before seen in history. If you are not in when it happens, you will simply miss part of the explosive move.

Do not think in terms of making mega bucks, think more in preserving what you have, and if you are lucky, you may make a few bucks. Do not trust paper or banks with whatever you consider your core wealth, hold the metals.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:32 - ID#30970)
It's relevant to the assertion/accusation that America "screwed" Asia.

A "standard" is only that if someone chooses to make it so. A nation is free to choose whatever standard they percieve to be in their own best interest.

Also Sprach Telecaster

(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:40 - ID#289357)
@Argent re: silver prices

Here's part of a comment I picked up on the HotCopper forum - anyone have the latest CPM report on silver??

"Other good news: last weeks long term forecast by the CPM Group in New York, calling for average silver prices of $US10 over the next few years. If this well regarded New York precious metals research firm hadnt correctly called the 1997 rally, wed be inclined to dismiss the prediction as overly optimistic. But now... who knows?"

(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:48 - ID#269245)
telecaster & screwings
The US has screwed Asia via the IMF!!! Instead of taking their lumps, now Asian countries must earn US$ to pay the IMF off. The Asian countries have indebted themselves to the US. They are subserviant. They might as well be working for the US! If I were Suharto, I too would be telling the IMF where to go. This way, Indonesia retains its sovereignty and international respect. - c

(Wed Mar 11 1998 15:59 - ID#269245)
I understand your point more clearly now. These countries have more or less screwed themselves by indebting themselves to the IMF and the US$. They have sold their freedom, just like any other debtor. - c

(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:00 - ID#252127)

With RYO so close to production, and if they were to go the way of the dodo bird; who will BC grant the property to? I'm sure that BC wants tax revenue.
While never believing the low costs projected by RYO, they sure have a lot of room for error.
I have never and probably never will buy RYO, but if its price went down to $0.25, it sure as hell would look interesting.

Charles Keeling
(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:01 - ID#344225)
SUHARTO and his cronies and relatives
have enough billions hid away that they alone
could put Indonesia back on the road to
recovery. They have been stealing from the
people for many years.

Why should the US or the IMF
( our dollars,mostly ) bail out this dictator
and his cohorts?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:03 - ID#251268)
GC=J8 options exp
tommorow should be interesting last chance for in the money
holders to bale or get exercised,I know I've been rolling
ahead but do have some 290 calls,now the way I understand it
that unlike a futures con. where you have a buyer and a seller
with a option you have someone who sold it and someone who bought ti
so it seems to me if going into friday there is more calls by far
then puts this would be bearish and viceversa,I'm not sure I
am thinking right and it would probably only last a short while.
anyone have a sourse for in the money option figures? it

(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:15 - ID#410194)
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Unchanged at 478,974 troy ounces

Silver: Rose 518,669 troy ounces to 91,508,861

Copper: Fell 233 short tonnes to 116,366

The Silver collection in South Korea is set to begin on March 16th.

Mr. Mick
(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:16 - ID#345321)
Robdoel - Hasn't the US already abdicated?..............
seems there is "documentation" to that effect somewhere..........

(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:24 - ID#345176)
@ billBob on RYO

Friend, we got ROYALY shafted with Royal Oaks. Vegas is better for gamblers, and you get some live entertainment.

Mr. Mick
(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:25 - ID#345321)
Sorry Robnoel - I can't spell.........
or read half the time. Anyway, Mozel could probably shed some light on the subject, can't you, moze?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:27 - ID#252150)
Mozel--If the JY goes the way of the Rupiah, then the POG will go to 200- before it goes to 2000.

Ted-- you're right. Still better odds than the casinos. Tomorrow I'm going to short DELL on the opening--gold stocks are getting too tame.
Beautiful day here & on my way to play 9 holes.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:27 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 29.46 ( This is a new high )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:28 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .258

(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:29 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 48.19

(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:30 - ID#252391)
Thanks Realistic
Thanks for the stocks report from the comex Realistic. Wish the news was better for the bulls. I see more downside, sorry!! Silver may average $10 per oz over the next few years as good sources estimate. But after spending some time at $5.50 that'll make the high well north of $10 given how long it'll likely be before we see $7 much less $10.

PM in a bear - show me two days of rallies and I'll change my mind. Heck, show me a $5 up day in gold and I'll change my mind. Don't think the "base" at $6 will hold another two days.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:38 - ID#339265)
...looks like I was correct about the volume figure ( close to four million ) but wrong about the closing price ( closed at ONE BUCK ( U.S. ) ) -- Down 20%.

Apparently, one particular institution stepped into the picture, stood its ground, and bought all the panic volume in the last 15 minutes.

Now, it remains to be seen if said institution is correct in its stance.

Downside for RYO: British Columbia Indians are in an uproar over the project. They are threatening to take radical steps to close it down. Moreover, environmentalists are furious with RYO, claiming they will cause irrevocable harm to lake and wildlife nearby. Although B.C. government has a stake in project, it can walk away from relatively minor loss ( compared to 2 billion dollar loss incurred at Ontario Hydro, what is 150 million? ) and reap huge political goodwill. Finally, company is run by a major C____T who is reportedly despised by her own employees and has major negative karma going for her. It seems there is now real posssibility that, very soon, major class action lawsuit will be filed against company for poison pill gimmick!!

Upside for RYO: You tell me!

Seems to me that bankruptcy filing would get all the antagonists off company's back while it tries to resolve its problems. That's my bet!
With bankruptcy, stock would trade around .10 -.25 U.S. IMHO

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

Mike Stewart
(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:39 - ID#270253)
You were half right. RYO closed on a new low for the day at $1.00 on big volume in the last hour.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:44 - ID#339265)
...stock market crash is around the corner.

Both commodities are great future prognosticators.

Meanwhile, it is difficult to find a trace of significant investor optimism re: gold or silver.

What does it all mean?

It's here.

F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 16:57 - ID#255217)
Reality vs perception
Harry Browne was fond of saying that people always act in their own self-interest. I would like to modify that just slightly by saying that people always act in what they PERCEIVE to be in their best interest. There can be quite a difference between perception and reality. I believe the Dow is where it is because of peoples' perceptions that their self-interests are best served by buying stocks. So far they have been mostly correct. That reality is different is taking a long time to assert itself and when it finally does, there will be many who refuse to see it and will suffer the consequences.

Gold and silver bugs also suffer from mistaken perceptions in that they expect reality to assert itself instantaneously as circumstances evolve . I know because I suffer from that flaw myself. But at least I am aware of my error, now. And the time may be near when reality tires of being forced into the background and bursts forth with a vengeance that cannot be denied. A senario with mixed blessings and dreadful consequences. Viva gold! Viva silver!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:05 - ID#20748)
James : No Rupiah but,
Andy Kreeger in his column in Forbes does expect JY to trade at 140 to 150 USD. He recommends a call option spread, one year out, at these levels.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:06 - ID#57232)
Glossary of LBMA-relevant terms for everyone
All: Even the mysterious Contango!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:07 - ID#30970)
clone - their debt is denominated in US$, but only a small fraction of it is owed to US banks. Internatinal banks understandably see to it that loans are made and debts are denominated in the most stable currencies. You would not like to loan someone dollars, yen, or d-marks and allow them to pay you back in rupiah, for obvious reasons.

Personally, I think that the IMF is a tool of International Banking interests which enables them to charge the taxpayers of contributor countries for lucrative but risky loans which have gone into default. Banks are encouraged to make loans which they would not otherwise due to the belief that they will be covered in the event of a default. This circumstance injects an element of "moral hazard" into the process, because the banks are gambling with someone else's money and not their own. This is the same sort of situation that put US taxpayers on the hook for billions on behalf of failed thrifts in the 80's.

In short, institutions such as the IMF are not the solution to the problem of systemic risk in national and international banking systems, they are indeed the CAUSE of it. You tend to be more careful in making loans when you are gambling with your own money.

Direct US exposure to loan defaults in Asia is quite limited. The primary US concern and interest is the indirect exposure of US banks should defaults by European and Japanese institutions lead to a collapse of the international payments system.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:14 - ID#339265)
@MYRMIDON...My Apologies for not speaking highly of ROYAL OAK... is not my intention to harm you financially.

Rather, it is my intention to protect you by sounding an alarm on a forum that many average gold investors DO NOT access...this puts you in a better position than such badly informed investors so that you might save your ass before hell is unleashed.

I had my own unpleasant experience with PGU as you may recall. Haggis warned me of the bitter realities leading to its bankruptcy. As it turned out Haggis worked for the company and had a much better insider perspective of the facts.

However, I remain convinced that the bankruptcy workout should leave PGU trading much higher than it is now provided POG rises above 300 in a sharp robust fashion.

Similarly, if Royal Oak enters bankruptcy ( trading around .25 ) , then it would probably become a GREAT investment again provided POG breaks decisively ove 300.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:14 - ID#252127)
For all those interested, Yahoo has a message board for RYO

The most updated data on what investors are saying is on K2. Some of it is not nice, makes farfel sound positive.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:17 - ID#411112)
Mr.Mick don't sweat it,if it was not for spellcheck I'd be as dumb as the rest of the crew

I said this last nite but no one said
anything ,anyone out there tried WEBTV yes it
is a new toy for me I just think it is
great,got it from Best Buy for $99.00 or a
1/4 oz +_.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:23 - ID#57232)
Stock Market Crash? Not the US.
farfel: I think you are mistaken about which market will crash! It will not be the US -- yet. We will have some more serial currency devaluations and market drops alright, but the US markets will be the least affected. If Japan implodes -- there may very well be a flight to safety in the US markets. A Japan implosion would probably cause another round of SEAsian devaluations, China included. We will probably be ok in the US, as long as there are no key international banks caught in the downdraft -- for now. We have prior experience -- Japan imploded in 1990 and the US markets survived.

A Japanese implosion could be very bearish for gold.

I wish we had someone like Jin posting from Japan, as we have no inside information. I cannot decide whether we should be applauding President Hashimoto for taking on the bureaucratic dragon and winning, or whether we should be running for cover! The next few weeks will tell - I think -whether Japan is imploding or just finally doing what should have been done years ago.

I think the script we are following is very similar to that of the 20's, when the US markets were hit last.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:26 - ID#255151)

Yep, I got one of them Webtvs last March for 299. It doesn't do some things that a computer does, but you can't beat surfing from your easy chair watching a large screen TV!

JOE Smith
(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:26 - ID#24869)
What are the implications of this on silver prices?
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Nachamah Jacobovits ( 212 ) 299-2430 Maria Gonzalez ( 212 ) 299-2436

NEW YORK, NY, March 11, 1998-- The New York Mercantile Exchange will raise the intermonth spread margins on its silver futures contract as of the close of business on Friday, March 13.

For clearing members, members and hedgers, the flat rate will be increased to $80 from $60; to $16 from $12 per spread; and to $8 from $4 per month. Flat rates for non-member speculators will be raised to $108 from $81; to $20 from $16 per spread; and to $10 from $5 per month.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:29 - ID#246224)
A cool wind blows o'er these empty fields
sending the old leaves along the fence line. Only the waning sunset casts its golden tones upon the earth and sky. Soon night comes with its silver tint. Another day turning to its close.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:38 - ID#339265)
...a Japanese implosion as you describe would inevitably provoke severe global currency volatility...a great climate to hold gold and silver. Flight to, I don't think so...more likely flight from U.S...given that Japanese hold 30% if U.S. treasury bonds. I am sure they will liquidate U.S. bonds before they sell their gold. All indications suggest that is exactly what they are doing right now. The value of their gold is a meaningless fraction of the total value of their treasuries. Japanese gold sales would not save their economy...not by a long shot.

Just as the stock market ( when it functions properly ) is a future indicator rather than a present indicator, then once markets crash, although gold and silver may jolt downward initially, they should immediately slingshot upward ( MUCH MUCH faster than industrial equities ) , thereby acting as correct future indicators of the Fed Reserves inevitable reflation of the economy.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:46 - ID#411112)
Auric..I can just see you now do you have the
remote keyboard ? I heard the new system has a 56K modem...I have a power Mac at the office but really this thing is great and no I'am not selling these things ,wish I was I'am just a poor Gold Dealer

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:48 - ID#26793)
Damn. There is no shortage of talent at this site. Yours at 17:29

(Wed Mar 11 1998 17:50 - ID#198170)
Good job Bart
Congratulations on your being noted via the link/quotes on the opening page of Canstock.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:05 - ID#153102)
@robnoel @Mr Mick @US Sovereignty
A while back I posted words to the effect that if there is no allodial title, then there are no freemen. Maybe I needed to elaborate. If there are no freemen then everyone is in a feudal relationship to government or one of its corporate creatures like the banks and corporations, which includes the incorporated States. Is this coming through ?

Have you ever been led in A Pledge of Allegiance ? Look up the word allegiance. Do you know the word fealty ? Or realty ? Did the phrase co-surety for the national debt that I posted not light the bulb or ring the bell ?

If you look in Title 10 of the USC, you will find out all males between 18 and about 45 or so who have social security numbers are in the United States Militia. Now read the fifth amendment and consider yourself in the land forces when you do read it. Could a freeman be made part of the President's land forces without his consent ? Military duty was and is not an obligation of freemen. It was an obligation of serfs and knights and others who owed service in return for being allowed to live on the King's land.

The federal government of the Constitution ceased to exist according to the Constitution in 1860. It's that simple. The civil authority of the States is not paramount to the military. The federal is nothing more than a body of men protected by military might, a de facto government ruling by martial law, pretending Constitutional government. In 1933 when it declared emergency rule by necessity, it dropped all pretense. You're a serf now.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:11 - ID#57232)
Japanese gold and treasury holdings
farfel: I just looked at Japanese gold holdings last night. They may be much less than that of the US, but they would still make a sizeable dent in the gold market -- and -- don't forget that if Japan goes, more gold sales will come out of all SEAsian countries -- not just Japan.

Also -- I do agree with you that Japanese US treasury holdings are substantial -- just how much is left? I don't have a clue, but they did start selling months ago. My bet is that any Japanese treasury sales will be matched by a corresponding rise in our national debt, as that appears already to be how AG is handling the situation. If so -- the massive sales of US treasuries by Japan will have no noticeable effect in the immediate future. But I do aggree with you that no matter what -- trouble looms ahead -- although it may be a few years to come for the USA.

Farfel -- if I was convinced that a US crash was imminent, I would sell all of my gold equities right now. Have a nice evening!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:13 - ID#31868)
mozel, brother mozel, you post these words, and seem
to be content to live as a sheep, part of the herd in a flock governed by those who pretend to rule. Tsk, tsk, not all you say is as must be defined, even within the documents that you speak of.

I shall return in a moment ( one minute and thirty seconds, this too according to the British is a measurement of time, which I am told can be measured but does not exist ) and shall provide you with some thoughts to which I shall seek out your response.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:14 - ID#238422)
In regard to RYO - what a day!

Now, I have no idea on where we gonna end with
this one, but here are two quotes from investment

1. Unless there is a fear in the stock, it probably
doesn't have a large upside potential ( by Wilson )

2. Big money is made by sitting tight, and not by
thinking ( by Lefevre )

I guess we got a lot of fear, and our thinking
is in jeopardy. I'll take my chances and will sit tight...

Now it's really a test of luck. Take care, I'm with you.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:14 - ID#342376)
The three Financial Astologers I follow all point to a Market Top in the DOW this week. After that, it's a slide for the rest of this month AND most of April. Interestingly enough, they are very Bullish for May and after May, hell breaks loose. I wonder what Mike thinks?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:14 - ID#238422)
In regard to RYO - what a day!

Now, I have no idea on where we gonna end with
this one, but here are two quotes from investment

1. Unless there is a fear in the stock, it probably
doesn't have a large upside potential ( by Wilson )

2. Big money is made by sitting tight, and not by
thinking ( by Lefevre )

I guess we got a lot of fear, and our thinking
is in jeopardy. I'll take my chances and will sit tight...

Now it's really a test of luck. Take care, I'm with you.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:24 - ID#411112) are now and will ever be The Honrable Mozel
knighted before the VAST RIGHTWING the way they said the samething about Jefferson...the new lords are standing in the wings...waiting for fast track welcome MAI,if the GDP were ever to wake up to this fact all hell would break loose...good to know that there are folks like you out there...besides being a gold dealer I do 3 hours a day as a talk show host the natives are getting restless..

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:26 - ID#258129)
I always wondered - your handle - is it from "Anna Karenina"?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:31 - ID#252127)

Something doesn't add up, and I believe Mr. Buffet has found the answer.

Silver had a goodly number of years with supply deficits well over 100 million ounces.
But the price never -until recently- held much above $5.50.

I firmly believe:
If a big move in silver occured prior to 1998 CB control of the gold price would have been near impossible.

That well paid traders were used to keep the silver price from rising to dangerously high levels. We live in a debt based system and a gold price rise caused by a fair silver price would endanger it.

It is easy to move this silver market; as a 100 million oz. is chump change for governments.
Remember, they can print currency and have the power to tax.

I think that it is wrong to conclude, that the entire overhang came about after the Hunt spike; bought at high prices and now such silver investors are now being forced out of their investment.

Something doesn't add up and I prefer to believe in manipulation, not huge totally owned stocks are ready to hit the market.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:31 - ID#255217)
@ Mozel, re: 18:05

Everytime I read something similar to yours just posted I get maad! Not at the messenger, of course, but at the circumstance that prompted the message. Then as I roll over the message in my mind I get madder still, because I know I can't do anything about it except grind my teeth!

That's when I always think of those guys in the milia movements around the country and realize they can't all be wrong or misguided when facts such as you presented make their impact on one's mind. I guess I will just go find the nearest hole in the ground and poke my head in it like most everyone else. To do anything beyond that might be construed by some as ANARCHY!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:33 - ID#252127)

Something doesn't add up, and I believe Mr. Buffet has found the answer.

Silver had a goodly number of years with supply deficits well over 100 million ounces.
But the price never -until recently- held much above $5.50.

I firmly believe:
If a big move in silver occured prior to 1998, CB control of the gold price would have been near impossible.

That well paid traders were used to keep the silver price from rising to dangerously high levels. We live in a debt based system and a gold price rise caused by a fair silver price would endanger it.

It is easy to move this silver market; as a 100 million oz. is chump change for governments.
Remember, they can print currency and have the power to tax.

I think that it is wrong to conclude, that the entire overhang came about after the Hunt spike; bought at high prices and now such silver investors are now being forced out of their investment.

Something doesn't add up and I prefer to believe in manipulation, not huge totally owned stocks ready to hit the market.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:34 - ID#255151)

The remote infrared keyboard is a must. Pretty decadent, but I'm all for decadence!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:35 - ID#253153)
Times have changed, you may enjoy it
The diagnosis,
A woman accompanied her husband to the doctor's office. After his checkup, the doctor called the wife into his office alone. He said, "Your husband is suffering from a very severe disease, combined with horrible stress. If you don't do the following, your husband will surely die ." "Each morning, fix him a healthy breakfast. Be pleasant, and make sure he is in a good mood. For lunch make him a nutritious meal. For dinner prepare an especially nice meal for him. Don't burden him with chores, as he probably had a hard day. Don't discuss your problems with him, it will only make his stress worse. Adn most importantly , be romantic with your husband several times a week and satisfy his every whim." If you can do this for the next 10 months to a year, I think your husband will regain his health completely.
The drive home was rather silent. But, finally the husband turned to the wife and asked, "I have to know ,what did the doctor say ?
The wife thought for a brief moment and then replied, " You're going to die."

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:40 - ID#31868)
Let us start with this as the discussion of the "law" in America could go on for hours. Since courts today are no longer under the Judicial Branch of government but rather the Executive Branch, let me ask you this.

Is there any written law that demands that you carry identification?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 18:53 - ID#26669)
Warning! Off topic post!
Mozel, you worry too much. It's all been done before, two millenia ago.

Here are a couple of easy references for your edification. The first is a brief translation of Roman Republican constitutional principles. The second contains a discussion of Roman Imperial constitutional issues.

( That is if I transcribed them right ) IMHO

IMHO you are right about ( but didn't say in so many words ) the beginning of the American Imperium starting in 1933. I won't bore you with repeating stuff you already know.

There are 2 relevent lessons in such study: 1 ) as arbitrary governmental power increases there is relative safety in physical geographic distance from centers of government, lowness of station in life and drabness of lifestyle. 2 ) as coinage is debased there is relative economic safety in holding purer coinage...which is what we see time and again here espoused by various persons and rightly so. IMHO

There is also one area of extreme danger, which I see people toying with from time to time on these pages, and that is the idea of rebellion against Rome. The Imperium will tolerate much but not insurrection. Consider the lesson of Bodicia ( various spellings ) . IMHO

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:02 - ID#254269)
Australia warns IMF re trying to change Asian politics;

from Thursday's Aussie Financial Review.

jim c
(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:07 - ID#69280)
JTF@18:11> sell gold equities?
I don't understand why you would unload your gold stocks if there was a crash. We all know that gold is a store of value in hard times. Owning pm stocks would be the only type to hold. Can you please enlighten me?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:10 - ID#20748)
Paradigm Shift
The latest ( March 23 ) issue of Forbes Magazine carries an article entitled Pradigm Shift. The article describes why Foster Freiss of Brandywine Fund has gone from under 3% in cash to about 70% in little more than three months. This what Freiss has to say.

"What has happened in Asia has created a paradigm shift in how the world will unfold." He maintains, there is no way Asia's problems won't spread to the U.S. in the form of slower sales and squeezed profits for U.S. companies.

"I think people have been distracted by Monica Lewinsky and Iraq, and that has crowded out what should be a greater focus on Japan."

Text next to his picture reads, Lonely cowboy? He's not the only one going into cash. "I see other investment managers doing it with their own money."

The article concludes "Far too many money managers today run closet index funds but charge high fees for doing so. Freiss is doing exactly pay a manager to do: actively manage their money."

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:14 - ID#20748)
Paradigm Shift
Last line should read " Freiss is doing exactly what investors pay a manger to do: actively manage their money."

jim c
(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:18 - ID#69280)
Australia warns IMF
Australian CBs certainly didn't complain to loudly when they helped destroy their gold industry. I hope that by unloading most of their gold, it comes back to haunt them. Is it just me or are countries with the most gold backing their currencies worth the most? IMHO.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:36 - ID#339265)
@JTF...your reasoning on 18:11 is completely fallacious IMHO...
...believe me, if Japan goes ( as you put it ) , then America goes right with it. You seem to forget that Japan is a creditor nation to this country. The micro-analogy is this: if I go to my neighbor and regularly borrow 100 bucks a week to survive, and my neigbor goes bankrupt, do I suddenly become better off. No, I go into the dumpster right with him.

Japanese would sell U.S. treasuries like there is tomorrow. Gold sales...I doubt it...the sales proceeds would hardly make a dent in U.S. dollar terms. Moreover, the Japanese are bound to recognize one reality...if Japan is tanking, the U.S. dollar is going right along with it. There will be a world-wide paper crisis of monumental proportions... currencies will swing widely back and forth. First, Japan's Yen will crash, then as it sells U.S. treasuries, stocks, real estate, we will see the U.S. buck dive, with the Yen swinging right back up. This type of up/down radical movement in currencies will not subside until total faith in paper instruments is destroyed.

Take note of one thing...none of the world superpowers are selling any of their gold reserves; such sales are second and third world phenonomenae only since these are the countries experiencing the most severe liquidity crises...and these are the countries that are being duped by superpower interests into believing their gold and silver no longer has any intrinsic value.

Again, back to a micro analogy ( so you can fathom my erudite thoughts ) ...
if I am slowly going bankrupt, the first things I sell are the things that have the least value to me...whereas the last things I sell are those things which mean the most to me.

Ergo, until we witness significant gold sales occurring in the following countries ( Russia, U.S.A., Japan, Germany, and France ) , then it is safe to assume that gold is extremely valuable. Repeat. EXTREMELY VALUABLE.


Thus spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

Mr. Mick
(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:37 - ID#345321)
Gentlemen, GENTLEMEN!!..I didn't mean to kick a hornet's nest.....
maybe we are serfs, but we are in our "comfort zone". So we won't be roused unless something drastic happens ( which may happen at any time, only God knows when... ) Anyway, I think most of us are in agreement on this subject, I just didn't know if there was documentation out there somewhere that said the US would turn over "control" to the UN in the event of an "emergency". Is there?
As far as this being off topic goes, 75% of what gets posted here is off topic.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:37 - ID#26793)
Japanese metals firm implicated in Englehard nickel fraud goes bankrupt.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:38 - ID#401460)
DRUDGE REPORT - McDougal Manuscript

"There are strong indications that fallen Whitewater star Jim McDougal got it all down on paper before he died of a heart attack in federal
prison Sunday."

"In fact, the Ghost of McDougal may soon turn the White House haunted."

""He left behind a workable manuscript that offered up everything he knew about Whitewater -- in his own words!" a top publishing source
revealed to the DRUDGE REPORT late Sunday."

The Hatt
(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:40 - ID#294232)
It would take an IDIOT TO LISTEN TO AUSTRALIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Might sound like sour grapes but i am sick and tired of reading anything about Australia. These turkeys sold out their own citizens and have done great DAMAGE to the mining industry. Night after night they sell gold as is evidenced by the fact that 95% of the time gold opens DOWN in Australia. Not one of those idiots have stopped to think that maybe just maybe their currency is in trouble because they chose to liquidate Gold.
I am totally convinced that the old boys club is controlling the price of gold and the fact that there is fear when it comes to rising prices tells me that Gold will always hold its value. This leads me to Anothers comments. To make a prediction such as he has made is either very foolish or he understands more than we give him credit for! If and I say if he is correct about the price of Gold his loyal following will become much more loyal and if he is wrong I would be surprised to see another posting from this person called Another. Time will tell........

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:40 - ID#57232)
Japanese gold
farfel: Just got home and looked up Japan in Peirre Lassonde's book 'The Gold book'. Apparently in 1995 Japan had 24.2 million oz of gold. I calculate $6.78 billion US, so I concede to you that is a drop in the bucket. However, according to P.L., Tanaka Bank, and other Japanese banks set up a gold investing program for the Japanese investor in 1985. Gold investing was apparently strongly encouraged. P.L. thinks that Japanese investor ( gold bug? ) demand for gold is over 1 million oz per year. So- that might be another 20 milion oz. or more.

I still maintain that gold sales from all of SEAsia would be substantial if Japan imploded, triggering another round of SEAsian devalutations.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:41 - ID#26793)
Rampant fraud in the Mexican Bolsa is being ignored by officials

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:45 - ID#31868)
Mr. Mick
Of this I can assure you. No matter who signed what, let any of this UN nonsense get explained to NYers and you can bet your bottom Eagle the people in Manhattan would have it leveled in no time.

I have known NY my entire life and never met anyone with one good thing to say about the building, people or mission, this thing with the UN has been festering here for yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaars.

It will make for great CNN coverage though.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:46 - ID#57232)
Gold equities at risk in a market crash
jim c: Have a look at the 1987 crash. The liquidity crisis instantly spread from regular equities to gold stocks. The same could happen today, but I think gold equities would not drop as far this time ( was nearly 50% in 1987 ) . Also, during deflationary crises, such as the ones we are having now, gold bullion goes down, not up. When you need food and shelter, and you are jobless, you sell your last resort assets - gold.
After a deflationary crash, gold and gold equities will do very well indeed!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:48 - ID#26793)
Lower energy prices likely to produce deflationary price index report.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:53 - ID#26793)
Prediction that yen will keep falling due to distraction of BOJ scandal.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:54 - ID#57232)
How about the 1990 crash?
farfel: Just saw your 19:36. If you are correct, why didn't the US markets crash in 1990 when Japan crashed? I agree that the turmoil around another Japan crash would be substantial, but I don't think the scenario you predict is certain, IMHO.

By the way, we may be underestimating Japan. I said earlier that I don't know whether we should be complementing Hashimoto for attacking the bureaucratic dragon or running for cover. What we may be seeing is the Japanese finally cleaning house, instead of an outright crash.

One thing we gold bugs do repeatedly ( me included ) , is take the bad news and translate it into instant disaster, when the actual market response is delayed -- possibly for years.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 19:57 - ID#215208)
Gold gloom
I've never heard so much gloom and doom on Kitco. Many negative comments about gold not being able to rally 2 days in a row. I think it is clear by now that gold is going to be tightly controlled to close under 300 on Friday, the day April options expire. After that, it is a new ball game.

We should be spending our time trying to predict which way it will break at that time. Can any of you gurus out there see anything that indicates which direction controlling pressure was applied?

It is very clear that everyone expects a major move, but I for one don't have any convincing arguments as to which way it will go.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:01 - ID#339265) not look at 1987 as an analogy to what is about to occur!
1987 was merely a hefty correction in a bull market. It was asymmetrical in nature in that the super-power country that got hit the worst was the U.S.A....not Japan nor Russia nor even Germany.

Now we are in 1998...and the next downturn in our global economy will be pandemic...all super-powers are interlinked and they will all be effected simultaneously by a paper crash.

No currency will avoid the whipsaw effect as people try and figure out where the repository of safety and value exists. Answer: Not in any paper currency! Ultimately, after some time converting money from one currency catastrophe to another, people will throw up their hands in frustration and return to the familiar financial safe and silver.

In the initial turmoil, gold equities will drop intially with other equities...but on a much less drastic scale....yet, once a new currency unit ( backed by gold ) is established, then gold stocks will be the first to experience an amazing slingshot rebound that will far outpace the recovery abilities of any other equities.

Thus spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:01 - ID#57232)
Japan situation
Donald: Do you think the Japanese situation is 'knee jerk' from the BOJ scandal, or the real thing? Hashimoto may just be cleaning house. Comments?

I think all of this will push the US markets and the dollar up even more, with a subsequent downturn in gold and oil. There may even be a stronger deflationary threat to the world with the stong dollar, than with the situation in Japan.

Do you agree with me that we may very well be repeating the pattern of the 20's, leading up to 1929? I think so. The only question is how much more the US markets will go up with cheap oil and other cheap raw materials, and the foreign 'flight to safety'. I am thinking now that the US market crash will not be this year. I do not envy AG.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:08 - ID#35767)
FACT: In January RYO bondholders subordinated themselves to a new DEC loans which were supposed to take the company thru start up. FACT: six weeks later the company is cash strapped again/ How did this happen WERE THE BONDHOLDERS SUBORDINATING THEMSELVES BLIND/ THIS DOESNT PASS THE SMELL TEST.or is something else going on.FACT: 4 weeks later a water problem is announced at Kemess potentially causing delay. Then that is blown over as only a two week delay. Then a story comes out about a work stoppage but never reaches the wires so as to allow the institutionals to escape and let the littlies take it. The company cant pay its bills and goes reorg/ The bondholders takeover a company with unbeliveable cash flow with NO DEBT. Peg loses her two million shares but is well compensated to stay on and participates in the stocks boom through options. Shareholders might get a nibble of the action to prevent lawsuits.

QUESTIONS: Are we to believe that the bondholders did not know that the co was in a cash strapped position six weeks prior to their action.

Was the anti takeover pill a way to prevent the fraud allegations that might arise after Bankruptcy. IE WE didnt know WE REALLY WANTED TO PROTECT THE SHAREHOLDERS HONEST!! CREATE YOUR OWN EVIDENCE BEFORE THE ACT. In this sense the anti takeover action looks like a good CYA strategy for what you know you are trying to pull off. COMMENTS!!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:08 - ID#251268)
Hatt ?
If making a wrong prediction kept people from ever posting
we would have a pretty thin group here.I for one like someone
who will go out on a limb,doesn't mean I'll trade on it but
it wakes me up,do you hear me Preacher I realy like your take on
the overall market keep it coming.The guys that crack me up
are the ones that talk blood in the streets when the SPs take a little
dip?surely there is going to be a major CRASH but no need to
be a pesimest and look on the dark side of everything all the
time,people will be buying and selling right up till THE END
and people will be making money and losing money,lets make some.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:09 - ID#57232)
We aggre to disagree
Farfel: Please look at my more recent posts. What I see is a repeat of the 20's, IMHO. But -- my crystal ball is very faulty.

I think we will see very soon what will happen to Japan, and possibly China. Let's see just how far the Japanese markets fall over the next few days, because I think the worst news is the BOJ news.

By the way, are you aware that the Japanese legal system is very different from the western ones? When a Japanese is arrested, it is as if the trial is over. In our system, the bad news has only begun at the time of trial. I think we may be underestimating the Japanese.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:13 - ID#26793)
I think that most of the recent scandal in Japan is just a sideshow. The basic problem is that Japanese investors, those in stocks and especially those in real estate, are refusing to accept the market decision that those things are worth less than they paid for them. Just as the U.S. did in the 30's they attempt to artifically prop up prices that the market wants to mark down.

As long as they refuse to acknowledge that the market always wins they will have a problem. Ask Russia. Bankruptcy and failure are not words that come easy anywhere; in Japan suicide is often easier.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:17 - ID#348169)
@ Farfel
Give it up with the 'Thus Spake' stuff will you? Your posts are O.K. but you are NOT Thor- 'The God of Thunder and Lightening' and he and Odin and crew are THE only ones allowed to speak thus on an ongoing basis in this space time-continuum. Thus spake Mooney the Irrepressible. ;- )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:19 - ID#330175)
Can 'it' get anymore exciting than this
April Gold UNCH @ 295.10

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:21 - ID#26793)
China, U.S., still far apart on issues leading to Chinese membership in W.T.O.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:21 - ID#339265)
farfel.....your -ID#339265:
I surely agree with your premise.....I just wonder if we can "wise up" the world in our short lifetime.....keep the thought process going.....
And have a nice day :- )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:21 - ID#57232)
Donald: Your words make sense. The Japanese pride themselves in looking forward many years. Buying and holding. One thing they probably have difficulty is realizing when they have made a bad investment.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:24 - ID#57232)
G'nite all!
What a day of surprises! Chores beckon.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:36 - ID#339265)
@JTF...I submit that Japan NEVER actually crashed in 1990... journalists like to talk about the Japanese crash...yet, a real Japanese crash would have taken America down with it.

Why did this not happen?

Because, Japan was persuaded by America NOT to sell American treasuries in order to regain liquidity and NOT to hike interest rates in order to attract foreign investment capital into Japan, thereby inspiring huge capital outflows from America, which ultimately would have caused a crash in America. Likewise, Germany slowly began to drop its interest rates rather than move in the other direction. America persuaded Japan to avoid interest hikes since such a move would have killed the American recovery before it got started. Thus, with dropping interest rates, America set about printing lots more funny money ( U.S. bucks ) in order to get an economic recovery going with the promise that Japan would someday see a robust recovery as well. That Japan never fully recovered while America did is owing to the fact that, once America was back on its feet, it screwed Japan again by overinflating the American stock and bond markets, thereby precluding American capital from seeking investments elsewhere such as in the sputtering Japanese economy. On a micro analogy, it's as though the neighbor that loaned you 100 bucks a week so you could survive went broke...and the only reason you didn't go broke is that you both agreed to pay your bills with counterfeit money knowing that, someday, you might both be discovered and you would both go down the tubes. The debtor neighbor guaranteed the creditor neighbor that he would protect him from the police but, when they arrived to arrest them, the debtor neighbor denied any involvement in the scheme.
In other words, Japan acted against its best instincts under pressure from the U.S. superpower. It was persuaded to keep the status quo alive ( namely, American capital hegemony ) and not rock the world financial boat.

So, with all three superpowers dropping interest rates simultaneously and American treasuries sales precluded, the Day of Reckoning was postponed...however, now we are here...Japan certainly cannot reduce its interest rates, America won't owing to inflation fears ( believe me, the inflation is here and it's in the stock market ) , and Germany likewise.

This seven year postponement of the real crash has produced a "Decade of Mass Hysteria" in which creditors and debtors have refused to acknowledge the enormous warts in the global financial system in order to keep the world financial boat floating.

What's it all mean?

It's here.

THus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:37 - ID#42365)
modern alchemy...
well, well. i know the answer. someone needs to find a way to atomically change gold into something else. u see the old alchemists had it all wrong. they tried to create the precious metal. what we need is a way to destroy it. i mean we could really make this stuff scarce. all we need to do is get the janitor in one of these central banks to go clean the vaults, and instead of his bottles of cleaning spray, take down into the vaults spray bottles of Gold-B-Gone. then when applied transmutates the gold into uhh somethin else. maybe radioactive. heh. senseless i know...

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:43 - ID#339265) further comments on ROYAL OAK...
...everything I have to say I said earlier.

It's a sinking boat.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:45 - ID#339265) new signature is a valid... the signature of ANOTHER.

When he drops his, I'll drop mine.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:46 - ID#348169)
Just can't give up those 'thus spakes' eh?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:47 - ID#31868)
farfel your 20:36, excellent

(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:48 - ID#20137)
This seems sort of silly but...
I am convinced that the dollar is weaker than the statistics show. I have a problem in trying to determine what a U.S. dollar is worth. The U.S. government has gotten all key commodities priced in U.S. dollars. I believe that with the use of derivatives, , and this pricing scheme, the U.S. government is able to manipulate the perceived value of the dollar.

It has been pointed here many times before that everything LIKE food, phone calls,  has been going up in price. BUT the government has been able to fudge the numbers so that not only the crb doesn't go up but also the commodities on the world market seems to be going down . Somehow ( with derivatives or side payments ??? ) the government has been able to work this charade worldwide.

In honor of the new found dinar and in hopes of getting a handle on just what a U.S. dollar is really worth, I would like to suggest that we price chicken in world currencies. If someone from the countries around the world ( lurkers please help ) price chicken then we would have this comparison immediately.

I purchased 0.114 pounds of boneless and skinless 99% fat free chicken breast tonight for $6.27 U.S. dollars. $5.59 per pound. I live in northern california, U.S.A.

If we can get an equivalent for yen, Dmark, yaun,  then we might get a verification of the currency tables.

Just a thought. Anyone that wants to help, please post the units of weight, currency, price per unit weight and brief description of type of chicken.

If a better item should be used for comparison, mention it.

Mike Stewart
(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:54 - ID#270253)
Royal Oak
Press Release

Kemess cost overruns to be 9% or $40 million. They have to go out and get it now.

Mike Stewart
(Wed Mar 11 1998 20:58 - ID#270253)
RYO Correction

Bully Beef
(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:00 - ID#259261)
Anarchy is simply absence of government.Therefore being a Conservative
Anarchist is not a contradiction in terms. When I was a student 20 years ago this was a popular concept and when the RCMP weren't monitoring our classes we felt as though we could actually bring about this understanding among citizens. I think however that guns would end up ruling. Remember... you are free only to work or starve. This makes freedom a very narrow concept.
Since everyone else has been philosophical today I just thought I might add the German word "volksgeist" to our discussions because whether you like it or not, it will be when the "Folks spirit" decides that gold has become valuable again and not a moment before. Artists are the antenna ( they sense it ) of the peoples spirit and they tell us where it is going. It is our job to interpret the language of artists and reveal it to others. Artists are often unaware themselves of what they are telling us.People think Andy Warhol was simply an opportunist in his work and how he exploited very recognizable modern images to make gobs of money. This is true but he also spoke bags about the emptyness of the modern materialist life and quite probably wasn't aware of it.The folks spirit is out there moving right now and we must use our wits to interpret it's trend...or fail...If you should choose to accept this mission...impossible. So if you want to make money move to SOHO.
My apologies.. valuable bandwidth....GO GOLD.
I'll just lurk away and have a nervous breakdown now.

The Hatt
(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:03 - ID#294232)
Jman predictions insight and opinions are all part of this group!
I am not one to make judgements on one mans opinion however I must admit that I am intrigued by Anothers postings! If he is right and the market turns on a large gold purchase, his information sources would put him very close to the inside! What makes his situation different from the rest of us is that he is the only poster that claims to have access to information that one would not expect to find on Kitco. Show me moving averages, head and shoulders, inventory numbers, lease rates, volume and whatever else makes sense and I can deal with it but tell me that something such as gold for oil or knowledge of a large gold purchase and my red flags go up! We all have our opinions on gold and each of us believe that they make alot of sense, however if I were to post the name of a junior gold company recommending its purchase based on inside information pertaining to assay results would you see this as responsible posting? Not I sir, I am just a little concerned that his postings are based on nothing more than fiction! If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it and if I am right I would hope that Another would discontinue the games......... Just one mans opinion..........

(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:06 - ID#255151)
G-Nutz @20:37

Such a scheme was nearly pulled off in the mid '60's by my namesake, Auric Goldfinger. A wrongly villified hero, in my estimation.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:11 - ID#15388)
price of chicken
well, I live in the southern part of the u.s. and I just paid 1.99 ( on sale ) lb. for boneless skinless chicken breast. think the regular price is 3.99 lb.

Megan Anne

Bully Beef
(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:14 - ID#259261)
meganann...goodpoint !
We should trade in chickenbreasts.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:19 - ID#15388)
Bully Beef, you might be on to something!

With a spread like that it's a tempting thought! Any takers for $3.99/lb chicken breast? next day delivery guaranteed. This sounds more lucrative than gold at the moment.


(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:20 - ID#252150)
NJ@the Japanese Peso
I 'm pretty sure that the JY would already be @ 140+ if it was'nt for the
jawboning & threats of Rubin & his minions. I did make a good gain within a few days, a few months ago. I'm trying to find another entry point, but it will be very dangerous & volatile because their surpluses are exploding. I don't do options, but that would definitely be the safest way to go.

Lan Man
(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:24 - ID#320108)
@The Price of Chicken
A.Goose - I paid $4.95 lb last saturday for the same kind and quality ( in So.Calif. )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:30 - ID#348286)
@We Have to Be At The AU Bottom !!!
Now that the best Gold chat site is discussing the price of CHICKEN !

(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:30 - ID#411112)
being off subject is what makes this forum greart

the Founders would be proud,I get so much from you guys I just wanted to say thanks to all and yes the great poobar Bart

Bully Beef
(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:32 - ID#259261)
7.03 canadian dollars for a Kilogram for Chicken breast skin on.
I refuse to do the converting.

Bully Beef
(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:32 - ID#259261)
7.03 canadian dollars for a Kilogram for Chicken breast skin on.
I refuse to do the converting.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:37 - ID#300202)
Price of chicken t#ts in Main a Dieu????? Purdy expensive eh bye???

(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:39 - ID#330175)
Know anyone who wants to buy an internet-ready computer ( 15" screen,Koss speakers etc etc ) ---oh yeah,GO GOLD

Lan Man
(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:41 - ID#320108)
Of Yardsticks and Studies
You do know that this little study on FFC will confirm that the USG is incapable of measuring the CRB with any accuracy.

I guess that the value of the US$ is higher in SoCal than NoCal, at least when measured in FFC. But the $'s value in the southern part of the U.S. seems extremely high - or maybe it's just that there are too many chickens chasing to few dollars...

(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:41 - ID#330175)
Do you own any 'conventional stocks'?

Bully Beef
(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:43 - ID#259261)
Because I'm scared of a crash in the market
I made my wife put her retirement money in T-bills ( in a bank family of funds ) She would have made good coin if i hadn't stopped her from putting it into sci. and tech. fund. Also an equity fund with 20 percent Mine are in P.M.'s and Resources .Lost big this year. I do the research and she just wings it and wins. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Drink deep or drink not the draught of knowledge.Oh well ,we certainly are diversified.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:44 - ID#31868)
Well since we are talking fryers, I say if they
toast the Sergeant Major, then the Coward Erect should have his member nailed to the front door of the D.C. Brothel. Believe me people, what is happening to the Sergeant Major and what is going on with the Erection in Cowardice, is not being lost on the enlisted men and women nor the working men and women in AmeriKa.

Ah the cleansing of history, most interesting to watch.

John B__A
(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:45 - ID#211105)
Buffett to speak - perhaps a little hope for us?
CNBC this afternoon announced that Warren Buffett's annual report to his shareholders will be published on the Internet this Saturday at 9:00am at http:\\

It seems to me he should be divulging his silver strategy. Would be nice if it is a bullish message - I could use one.

John B__A
(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:48 - ID#211105)
Any Guesses?
By the way - any guesses as to what WB may have to say about silver this Saturday?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:54 - ID#300202)
A yuh-I do-buy problemo is everyone here uses the phrase-"for little or
nothing. Look at Maritime Merchant-puters for sale-week after week-same
ones. Brand name-couple of specs & approx price??? Will try-but not hope-
ful. Go Jean Charest. Was there any doubt he wud accept??? Don't answer.
I already know ur THOUGHTS.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:54 - ID#288157)
Carl, The FT editorial seems to agree {:-) ! !
The annual National People's Congress isusuallyfiarly uneventful,...this year things are more interesting. The congress is likely to confirm the ascendancy of Zhu Rongji--and determine the future of his radical reform programme.

The reforms being put forward are bold. There are plans to slash jobs in the civil service; to restructure the state-owned enterprises; and to recapitalise the banking system. ...With the support of President Jiang
Zemin, Zhu Rongji is building up a formidable political power base...and is virtually certain to be named premier...""In fact, China has the capacity to keep econ9omic growth high without touching the exchange rate. There is a huge stock of savings in China, which, if effectively harnessed, could be used to steer the economy through the next few
yers. ...

Mr. Zhu's plans indicate that he is aware of what will be needed to reform the economy."

MoreGold@Why.are.we.talking.chicken.for.goodness.sake We are seeking
ways to erase the USD noise around our favorite metal--we aim to collect
prices of human things, across the world and start comparing. What is
the REAL price of gold? We don't think it is $294.10! That is the
spot paper price... {:- )
Devaluation...concern, to which the FT says:

(Wed Mar 11 1998 21:59 - ID#288157)
OOPS! The "devaluation" bit flew away is supposed to
be just before the "no they WON'T devalue because they have
other options" bit...I think I need a cup of tea...the
typing-fingers/brain link is shot...{:- ( ( ( (

Bully Beef
(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:00 - ID#259261)
Who is the sarg. maj.? I get the erection thing.
Between Clinton and Kennedy Canadians have always called the White house the erection. We burned it in 1812.Besides Canadians only have sex in winter.Too busy in the summer. I'll leave you now .Sorry I didn't have anything of value to add to discussions, but I guarentee there will be one heck of a party here if gold tops 330 in the next few weeks. Off to eat green spam... bully beef.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:01 - ID#257136)
Will some of you more educated people please help me and many other s understand this?
x Webtalk: Politics

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Mystery Treaty - NAFTA on crack

Snoop, heres one for you to look into.
Just heard a very disturbing debate on NPR this afternoon. The
debate concerned a new global treaty called "Multilateral Agreement
on Investment" ( MAI ) . The deliberations on this treaty have
apparently reached a very advanced stage yet little has been
reported about it in the media. I have never heard of it.
I think folks need to start finding out about it now while its
under development instead of at the last minute when it comes
up for the last minute vote in Congress.

I was in favor of NAFTA, etc. and bought the whole free-trade
argument. Based on the results of other free-trade deals I won't
make that mistake again. Me, the AFL-CIO, The Green Party, and Pat
Buchanan all in bed together. Scary.

There is a lot of legalistic mumbo-jumbo in it thats way above
my head. But it didn't look pretty from what was able to filter
into my Arkie mind. Here are some of my concerns.

The agreement would apparently stop all domestic content
regulations ( for example requiring that cars must have 50% US Parts
to avoid certain tarriffs ) .

The agreement would apparently prohibit a country from favoring
its own domestic goods and services in any way. ????!!!

A country could not require a company to maintain any given level
of employment of that country's own citizens.

A country would be bound to allow workers into its territory to work
and grant them the authorisation to work and grant authorisation of
their spouses to work. The country could not bar workers coming into
its territory to work on the basis of numerical quotas of any sort
established by that country's laws or regulations.

Countries would not be allowed to specify a certain level of domestic
ownership in any company.

Sets criteria with which Most Favored Nation Status will be automatically
given to other treaty members instead of by the US government.

Nothing in the agreement shall be construed to prevent a country from
maintaining a monopoly or getting rid of one.

It appears that in the event of a dispute, the information about the
dispute must be kept secret unless both of the disputing parties agree
to release it. I am guessing that Freedom of Information requests would
be right out.

It looks to me like it sets up multi-national corparations as pseudo
sovereign entities without borders. Workers of multi-national corporations
would have to be allowed into a country to work. Countries would have
to treat multi-national corporations as if they were their own corporations.
A country would not be able to claim sovereign immunity from a lawsuit
brought by a multi-national corporation.

Here are some other notes about it from the current opponents, most
of whom appear to be liberal groups.

"We are writing the constitution of a single global economy"

-Renato Ruggerio, World Trade Organization Director General
( WTO Singapore Ministerial, December 1996 )

The MAI would forbid most remaining barriers to, and controls on
international investment flows. If adopted, this agreement would
dramatically undermine the ability of federal, state and local
governments to shape economic and social policies.

The current MAI text gives private corporations and foreign
investors legal standing to directly sue sovereign governments.
If a corporation or investor feels they are not getting everything
promised by the investment pact, they can demand payment from a
government using a special MAI tribunal. The international tribunals
that would hear the dispute could impose monetary fines on governments.
The only other forum under international law in which this kind of "private standing" exists is
pursuant to limited provisions of the North American
Free Trade Agreement ( NAFTA ) . Recently, the US-based Ethyl Corporation sued
the Canadian government for $251 million dollars in damages over a public health and safety law
that banned the known toxin MMT- a gasoline additive which Ethyl produces. According to Ethyl,
the law constituted a measure "tantamount to expropriation" under the terms of NAFTA and
thereby a
violation. This pending case is a preview of coming attractions if the
MAI goes into effect.

The MAI mandates "National Treatment" to ensure that foreign investors and companies are
treated the same as domestic companies. Therefore, tax
incentives for small business and laws that are designed to nurture
home-grown companies could be challenged because they inherently
discriminate against large foreign investors and corporations.

Corporations and investors from all member countries would also be
granted "Most Favored Nation" status. Governments would no longer be
allowed to distinguish between countries or companies based on human rights ( e.g. MFN for
China ) , labor, environmental or other "non-trade" criteria.

The MAI proposes a ban on "performance requirements" which are conditions or terms
governments require of investors. Examples of performance requirements include: contributing to
the investment needs of the local community ( such as in the federal Community Reinvestment Act ) ,
utilizing domestic goods or services ( domestic content ) , hiring local employees or "speed bumps"
on capital flight. This ban on performance requirements often "hurts" U.S. companies. Without the
ability to place conditions on investments, governments will have limited control over capital flight
and corporate accountability.

There has been virtually no public or political scrutiny of the MAI, yet negotiations have already
reached an advanced stage. MAI negotiations began in the OECD in 1995 and had an initial
completion date of May 1997. Only a small handful of officials in the U.S. State Department, the
Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, and financial and corporate lobbies ( such as the U.S.
Council for International Business ) are involved in the negotiations. Until January 1997, the MAI
text was entirely secret. The Clinton Administration has made little effort to inform or engage
citizens, elected officials, non-governmental organizations or the media.

Contracting Parties are bound to the terms of the MAI for a minimum of 20 years. The MAI
requires a commitment of 5 years before any member may withdraw. From that point, all then
existing investments are still obliged to the terms of the agreement for 15 additional years.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:06 - ID#300202)
Priced in Loonies sir.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:06 - ID#342282)
Goose re yours on chicken prices
Couldn't agree with you more. Will check prices here in N.C.I remember when Hershey bars were 5 cents, and bigger etc. Might take a couple of days, but it has to work out. Will get back to you!!! Thanx for a great perspective

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:10 - ID#316200)
a.j. (Understandings)
Welcome to the global plantation

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:13 - ID#348169)
@ DJ!
DJ - Re: your 19:57 Gold Gloom? - That's what's been happening around here for the last two years! Get real, ( My apologies to those who have previously patented that term hereabouts ) , at this point in time I would have to say that although we are at a pivot point, and yes, the market could go either way, the odds are now in favour of a rising gold market. This philosophy is based on many factors and predicated on Gold's recent
solid performance in the face of many diverse factors that have previously knocked the wind out of it. eg. 1 ) huge negative publicity from the CB boys club, 2 ) Ongoing deflation talk premised on ongoing Asian debacle, 3 ) Ongoing strong U.S. stock market, 4 ) Ongoing low interest rates, 5 ) Ongoing low inflation rates, 6 ) Immense publicity of possible massive sales by European Central Banks before EMU, 7 ) War cancelled by U.S. against Iraq, 8 ) huge, volatile, downward movement in Silver ( Gold barely budged ) , 9 ) huge recent slide in oil prices. etc., Etc., ETC., The confirming facts to watch are all in the charts. The above conclusion is also based on Gold's huge break-out above it's
200 day MA about 3 weeks ago ( which so far has not been breached ) and the fact that it seems to have put in a long term low at about $280. If these two milestones hold we have witnessed the end of the bear and the beginning of a massive long term bull.
"Chance favours the prepared mind."
----Louis Pasteur

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:14 - ID#368244)
Chicken Prices

All the gold is in them chickens, $1.99 lb. here in Louisiana.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:20 - ID#330175)
CAPER..............................and CB 'deal makin'
Probably will try the Merchant ( that's where I sold the kayak )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:23 - ID#411112)
aj...great post ..there have been a lot of us in the USA who have brought this up
but kudo's go to our buddys across the border who have orgainized and pushed to squash this nasty piece of work..your post was informative in a nutshell Canada US etc would hand over power from government to Transnatinal is this fact that you are seeing a coming together of both left and right both have a lot to loose,which is us...what you have to pay attention to is Clinton pushing for fast track....he'll hide in there I kid you not....he is a Rhode have to understand the founder of my country Rhodesia,Cecil John Rhoades's always been the goal one world order..the US may have won the battle against British but it has lost the war to the CROWN

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:24 - ID#252391)
Thanks John B for the Buffett news
So WB will speak ( or write. ) What will he say? I'll bet he didn't take full delivery on his position for the sake of not disrupting the market., but that he'll say he's still a bull. Hopefully, he will disclose he knows of new uses for the metal. Hopefully, too, it will encourage a few other billionaires to get in and grab up their share. Notice all the repeat use of the word hope. Jesse Livermore perportedly said trading on hope is very dangerous.

I guess I shouldn't be in such a hurry for a big run. The longer it takes for the bull to develope the better chance for little people like us to establish a large position.

Somehow I think his remarks won't be so blatantly bullish. Don't know why - maybe just my pessimissim coming out. A "floor" on Silver should hold at $6 through Friday; after that we should be back on our way to $7 or dead in the water headed for $5.

Notice the oversees markets are up one cent - guess the announcemnt is being taken as a bullish developement. Abscent Warren's forth coming remarks we'd be down under $6.

As i posted earlier, I'd get bullish if this precious stuff could manage two days up in a row.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:30 - ID#227238)
A salute to the new world order.
AJ: Your presentation of the MAI sounds more like a mandate than an agreement. Immigration law, indeed all national commercial codes, will, apparently, be subordinate to and circumvented by corporate demand. As in: Hire 'em in India and quarter them in the US to write code, build autos, or bring Jack Welch his morning coffee, at a fraction of the cost of tax paying citizens. Exploitation of cheap labor without regard for long term consequences. ....... National sovereignty becomes, increasingly, a joke. For those paying attention, Mozel has the inside scoop on this crap.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:32 - ID#316200)
robnoel__A (aj...great post ..
Hopefully, the war is not yet even begun

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:33 - ID#30116)
Earl -- Did the data ever arrive?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:35 - ID#26669)
John_B thanks for the tip
Not trying to be rude, but you printed backslashes instead of forward slashes. Try this address instead:

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:38 - ID#153102)
Your scenario of a conspiracy between bondholders and the President of RYO to put the company into receivership was quite interesting and facially plausible. But, not a proved case. Does anyone remember whether or not RYO was the company in which a teacher's retirement fund announced it had invested within the last 2 - 3 weeks ?

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:38 - ID#210235)
While you gentlemen have been out pricing chicken ( USD 2.99 here for range-grown, no antibiotics or hormones, whole bird only ) , I've been struggling with the question of whether a country can fall into a severe deflation despite increasing the money supply. My belief was that the Fed could avert a deflation by pumping out money quickly. If there is no general dissatisfaction with banking, this seems to work OK.

However, in the period 1929 - 33, when many were skittish about banking, the common guys pulled their funds out at a rate of 16% of the money supply per year. This money wasn't available to loan out at a 1:10 ratio, as was the norm for the banks in those days. The Fed did inflate at 4% a year during each of those years, but it was inadequate to compensate for the banking withdrawals. Add to that the bankers skittishness to loan money even at much lower rates than were available only a few years before, and you can see why the Fed is incapable, alone, of managing their way out of a severe situation. Confidence is everything when all you've got is a confidence game.

Now, all things being equal, we're OK now as the Fed's monetary increase should compensate for the collapse out east. But, this isn't accounting for year 2000 withdrawals, or other system shocks. If they should amount to anything, and confidence in the system wane, we could see real deflation again. An Not to worry, gold increases more in purchasing power in a deflation than in a severe inflation. Just keep adding to the pretty ones, real, physical.

Back to my books. Thanks for the most interesting posts recently! You know who you are.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:39 - ID#227238)
Panda: Yes, it did and many thanks for your effort. I have been so busy with a building sale and consequent move, that I have not had time to respond in kind. ..... Also complicated by a robbery last Wed nite.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:39 - ID#35767)
Has anyone thought that they could not get away with this crap without the great economy bull Mkt hype. Economy crashes you can forget MAI. The Bull in Stks creates the illusion that all is well.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:41 - ID#35767)
Denies Financial Post article ie no prooblem..Comments...

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:42 - ID#289436)
(@ Mozel)
Kinross of the Co. that the teacher's retirement fund went into. Approx. 12mil shares.

Quixotic 1
(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:42 - ID#48200)
Chicken Breast, With or without feather ???
To the CRB ( Chicken Research Bureau ) consortium:
Here in the North Country of the Great State of New Hampshire, Store brand boneless breast of chicken are on sale for $1.79/lb., regular price is $3.79/lb. Purdue branded products are about $0.40/lb. more expensive. I also noted that the larger the breast, the more price you had to pay per pound ( gee, just like in collage, bigger breast cost more ) and this ends our agricultural reporting for this evening.

FWIW, I see upside resistance for the dollar at these levels. The CRB looks ready for a 2-4 point run up the hill. A little consolidation in golds up move is better now than later. We wouldn't want too much, too fast. Silver appears to building a base for a run on $6.80-$7.05. The divergence between the gold stocks and spot points to a move up to the $308-$312 level.
Also, more important. I saw the press conference with BC on K Anan this afternoon. I have never seen BC so preoccupied and distracted in his mannerisms, something is rotten in the Whitehouse. His face appeared to have aged 10 years in just 1 week. His trademark pulsing-throbbing temporal vein was pumping a mile a minute, joined of course by two stressed and twitching eyes that resembled Monika's cheeks with bad makeup after to much sun.

Gold for the good guysGMJ

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:42 - ID#26669)
Warning! Another totally off topic post for a slow nite!
O.K. all you disgruntled serfs! If your browser is sound capable here is a web page to cheer you up! I always go there when I'm feeling blue. ( If you don't have sound don't bother. )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:44 - ID#339212)
The Teachers' retirement fund

...That is 10% of the Kinross stock is in the that fund!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:45 - ID#227238)
Prometheus: " Confidence is everything when all you've got is a confidence game." ................. A first rate line and capital summation.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:50 - ID#210114)
Now to a Chicken Standard
Ladies and Gentlemen, the continued development of this syte from gold to chicken does wonders for my sense of humour.

I have often dismissed the calls for a gold standard, but a chicken standard - yes! - that's what we need to restore the world's finances!!

Live Long and Roast!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:51 - ID#255190)
Prometheous ... One post and I'm gone.

There are some holes in the propoganda that the CB's can eliminate a deflation by simply printing money. It could work for a few years ( see Japan for this example ) . If things straighten out in the economy then OK. But if not??? If there are no longer any fiscally sound borrowers what do ya do then???

In one breath the CB Chairman says they can only influence and not dictate reality. In the next he says 'no deflation'. Well, one thing or the other is true.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:53 - ID#153102)
@earl Was the robbery with or without color of law ? Glad you survived.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:54 - ID#30116)
Earl -- Well, at least one E-mail went through. Now, why doesn't my data provider answer my e-mail to them? Hmmm, I must have asked some embarrassing questions?

Looking at the daily charts for the piss yellow metal shows that nothing new has happened. The direction still seems to be the same. One potential saving grace maybe the XAU/CRB ratio charts. If the past is any guide ( doubtful nowadays ) , a nascent rally could be in the future??? As for the Dow and Ilk; A bumpy road, but still looking up... 9500 anyone??

Now, if we get by the numbers for the next two days ( PPI, Trade numbers ) , there's always the Triple Witch next Friday....................

John Disney__A
(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:54 - ID#24135)
Things are going well at the CB(Chicken Bank)

For Spock..
NOW you're talking...

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:58 - ID#30116)
Triple Witch on 3/20/98 not on 3/13/98 Friday ( the thirteenth! ) . Good night all....

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:58 - ID#153102)
I really believe the egg, as I have previously posted, precedes the chicken on the scale of good standards of comparison. Even among M L XL there is little price variation.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:59 - ID#289436)
Re: New chicken standard scenario
I wonder if we can get ANOTHER's slant on a breasts for oil deal???

(Wed Mar 11 1998 22:59 - ID#210114)
Chicken Bank sales of nuggets
See, our new CB ( Chicken Bank ) already has its on form of bullion. Chicken nuggets could become the new currency of the world

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:00 - ID#411112)
Reality check...if millions of people thought a rock in a box was a pet and paid $29.95 they will

buy MAI,like I said Clinton will stick this in fast track...congress will have to vote up or where do you think these guy's get there cash from....want to talk about ADM they get $100,000,000 a year from US taxpayers,it's such a scam..I really don't know how they have pulled it of for so long,congress gives big breaks to Transnational Corporations some pay no tax at all...and they return the favour big time..the fact is this is one of those deals that if people don't get involved it will happen

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:01 - ID#257136)
robnoelEarl--- After having taken time to digest mozel's posts, and then sort of scanning and
semi-perusing the one on the MAI, I had to ask myself " just where in the world has your head been?"
My ego has taken a real beating, due to the fact that for many years I was ( or considered myself to be ) one of the more "enlightened" ones.
I have long known I am a slave in fact if not in fancy, but until recently I really believed that the matter could be straightened out by the same means ol' Mao extolled. Political power emanating from gunbarrels.
I now feel that there has got to be some better way, as at present, the poseurs and interlopres have the power.
I don't have to like it, but am beginning to feel as though I must accept it!

My heart aches for my children and theirs and theirs and..........

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:10 - ID#227238)
6 of one, half dozen of ......
Mozel: I'm not sure it's still possible to draw a distinction between the two. ...... In this case, the uninsured loss is on the order of $10k, which is still substantially lower than annual, uninsured, losses of the legal sort and coloration. Former, minimal, sense of security? ... Total loss.

BTW, please email/post the URL of the site you just mentioned. Thanks.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:15 - ID#20137)
comex stocks for today and the chicken patrol...
warehouse stocks:Gold
322,716 0 0 0 0 322,716
156,290 0 32 -32 0 156,258
479,006 0 32 -32 0 478,974

0 0 36,312,838
192,885 0 54,677,354
192,885 0 90,990,192

I will collect all the inputs I get for the price of 1 pound of chicken breasts ( rather the price per pound ) . Do whatever conversions. Publish results tomorrow. Hopefully we will get a good cross section of countries.

If anyone has a suggestion of a common ( worldwide ) product that would be better suited please name it. We need something to break the code on this currency game the U.S. is playing.

I do note that food prices vary widely across the U.S. ( as do gas prices, home prices, ) , maybe that is natures way. If so why not other commodities? Like silver and gold. Think about it, you can buy a much better house in Atlanta Georgia ( a mansion ) for the equivalent amount of gold to buy a nice 3-bedroom house in San Francisco California.
So basically an ounce of gold is worth more in Georgia than in San Francisco.

Now if gold buys more in most countries outside of the U.S., and the price of gold is going down relative to the U.S. dollar; then the U.S. dollar should be able to buy more of basic commodities like chickens, milk, meat, eggs. If not, then there is a flaw in the dollar mechanism.

Let us see ... Please help us out on this little test.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:17 - ID#57232)
Chicken Standard? , Japan, LBMA. See you all in the AM!
Chickens: I have been doing chores too long! How does Gresham's law apply to Chicken breasts and eggs? Anything like the gold/silver ratio?

Japan: Seriously, the Nikkei 225 is down a measly 25 points. It survived the BOJ revelations with remarkably little turmoil.

LBMA: Please look at USAGold's report for 3/10/98. Interesting stuff of the topic of discussion regarding what the LBMA volume really means. No answer, unfortunately, even after USAGold contacted the LBMA for information. Incidentally, according to USAGold, the official publication of the LBMA is the 'Alchemist'. Unfortunately I did a web search, and found nothing.

I wonder -- could the LBMA use the same physical gold bullion for many trades in one day? Imagine a bullion bank that is so heavily traded that the same ounce of gold is traded 10-20 times in one day. That could happen without any multiplier effect at all, if there were alot of day trading of bullion only. One could alot a time slot for each separate trade, so that each trade would be truly separate. Add a derivative multiplier, and the numbers might approach the reported LBMA volume. But, in long term trades, Frank Veneroso might still be right that only 25% of the gold price is due to long-term deriviatives trading.

What I find amazing is how the LBMA can have secret trading, given the volume reported. Eventually more details will come out!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:19 - ID#253153)
We are moving into a major deflation,and the Fed won't be able to do anything about it. In deflation the public's requirement for currency decreases.The Fed will no longer be able to continue the inflationary process because that process is made possible only through the public's need for more and more currency. If that need declines,as it always does in deflation --it will cut the Fed ability to keep the inflationary ball in the air..

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:20 - ID#344308)

slow night @kitco?

posted here yesterday by a kitcoite....

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:23 - ID#411112)
Don't worry aj there are folks out there working on this,we are not all brain dead

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:23 - ID#57232)
Gold nuggets ::: Chicken Nuggets

Gold Bullion ::: Chicken bullion ( soup )

Gold in the ground ::: Eggs?

One advantage of the chicken standard is that, during a crisis, you do not need to sell the gold to buy food -- you already have the food! Now -- how do you hoard chicken, and how do you keep your pets away from it?

I can see my assets wiped out by a Fox!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:24 - ID#344308)


(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:27 - ID#339212)
@ JP on Deflation

JP, take a good look around you and tell us if the new minimum wage law is deflationary. The puplic has an unceasing appetite for higher wages and this is INFLATIONARY. When you see reductions in the minimum wage, then you have deflationary pressures.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:27 - ID#34883)
theres hope

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:27 - ID#247190)
200 day MA
Hello Everyone, I am new to this discussion thing but I'll just start by

saying, "glad to be here" I've been reading these posts for about 6 weeeks. It's better than Late Night Television. I can't go to bed at night without catching up on the latest.

I'm from the USA. ( 90 miles outside Chicago ) I just started trading in January when Gold broke 300. I've jumped in and out a couple of times with both minor gains and losses but at the present I'm holding at 299. Started out as a Ken Roberts cronie but have spent about a year ( many all-nighters ) reading all the information I could get my hands on, Library, Newsletters, Internet, etc. etc.

Can anyone tell me if there is a posting of 200 day moving averages for Gold. I see that mentioned every now and then and would like to check it out. Also what if any would the currency board in Indonesia do to POG?


Scito ( pronounced, Skeedoe )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:29 - ID#344308)


(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:31 - ID#28594)
Central Banks, "We can handle it...we can handle Anything..."
[FT]Letter to the Editor--from the Chief Economist, Central Bank of Argentina

Re: Hazard of capital outflow can be controlled

...The lesson learnt, however, was that capital that enters may at some point leave. Hence the systemic liquidity risks associated with the acceptance of such capital must e managed -- something which most G10 countries are lucky enough not to have to consider in the same way. This risk is normally to be found concentrated in the banking system and for this reason Argentina has developed a systemic liquidity policy.

This policy essentially consists of a liquidity requirement system on banks and a contingent international credit facility with 14 international banks which together give Argentina access to international funds for some 30% of the total deposit base. If capital decides to leave to leave in bulk then there is sufficient liquidity to manage such an outflow without placing the other objectives of the central bank in jeopardy.

There is therefore a third way. The choice is not a closed capital account versus total vulnerability to the fickleness of international capital. the optimum may be to accept capital as offered but to ensure that the liquidity risks associated with that capital are managed through an effective liquidity policy at the systemic level."
Andrew Powell, chief economist
Comment: When money leaves, they have lines of credit to borrow money--to be repaid how?

And in Mexico: Mexico Central Bank to Control Forex Policy
"Mexico's central bank is to be given control of foreign exchange policy
as part of a package of financial reforms the government plans to send to Congress this month.

The reforms, announced by President Zedillo at a bankers' convention in Acapulco, will also strengthen the authority of bank regulators and
restrict coverage of the banking system's deposit insurance scheme.

They will also create a new unit at the finance ministry to deal with $45bn of bad loans taken over by the government to rescue distressed banks following the 1994 devaluation of the peso.

"Strenthening the regulation and supervision of financial systems has become a priority in all countries in the aftermath of the crisis
in Asia," Mr. Zedillo said.

The proposed legislation received a warm reception at the bankers convention, but is likely to face a more hostile audience in the lower house of Congress, where Mr. Zedillo's PRI is outnumbered by a loose alliance of four opposition parties."

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:33 - ID#344308)


(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:35 - ID#31868)
check out Nightline - on now -

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:37 - ID#253153)

Yes, the minimum wage has been increased, but commodities are collapsing and as the unemployment rises all these wage pressures will disappear. It will 4-8 months for the unemployment to rise especially as South East Asia experience very severe deflation and a few countries default on their international loans.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:37 - ID#227238)
AJ: Earlier today, someone posted the comment that "they will tolerate protest but not insurrection".

It is one thing to consider the possibility of servitude and quite another to recognize it in fact. Many of us are only recently becoming aware of the our true status as wards and servants of the state.

Alas, as it is unwise to pick public fights with those who would buy ink in barrels, so it is also unwise to force showdowns with those who purchase gunpowder in boxcar lots. The 90's have given us witness to such folly.

Better to buy gold, prepare for the chaos to come and keep a low profile ( present a minimal target ) . For the moment.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:41 - ID#153102)
@223 aj et al.
No empire tolerates insurrection. Otherwise, it would not be imperial. But, the government in place in America is itself only supported by the people because it pretends the Constitution is its source of legitimacy.
It has successfully indoctrinated the population to believe that it acted to liberate in the period 1860-65 when, in fact, any serious study will conclude it acted to subordinate the civil authority in the United States of America, the States, to military power. The Imperium commenced in 1787 with ratification of the Constitution. The more you learn about the legal history of the United States, the plainer the gradual working out of this fact becomes in our political history. So long as people believe it was the Southern States only that were subordinated, the legal fiction of constitutional legitimacy can be maintained. So long as people believe the emergency government by necessity post 1933 was a product of the Depression, the legal fiction can be maintained.

223 advises to run ( to a place far from the central power ) and to hide ( in non-desript clothes and surroundings ) and acquire gold and silver coins.

I say there is no place to run and no place to hide. What we can do is talk. Educate ourselves and talk. Because ignorance is the foundation of their confidence game. And knowledge is power. "Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery ?"
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which
feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget
ye were our countrymen."

Samuel Adams

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:43 - ID#215208)
Mooney - Strongly worded. Are you invested appropriately or are you waiting to see the break first?

Nevertheless, your words are comforting. If I had to put a probability on it, I would say 60/40 in favor of a break upwards. I like the action platinum and palladium. And I don't think silver is done yet.

Yet many of Kitco's serious thinkers are predicting another run at 280. One thing for sure, we shouldn't have to wait very long to find out.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:44 - ID#339212)
@ JP, again on deflation

When a country's currency is strong commodities in that country appear cheaper than what they used to be. When the Swiss franc and German mark were strong, most commodities in those countries appeared cheaper, because these currencies could buy more due to their relative strength against weaker currencies.

What you see now in the US ( the low commodity prices ) is primarily attributed to the strong dollar. In other countries commodities are not cheap. Deflation is long ways off.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:45 - ID#342376)
I'm new too and I agree this site is better than late-night. As for 200 day MA check out the Privateer's home page Then click on the gold pages.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:48 - ID#341312)
Wild Speculation
Maybe Another has already read Warren Buffet's upcoming report. Wouldn't it be something if he discloses substantial gold and platinum holdings? The only reason he talked about silver before was due to the lawsuit. Between an S+P 500 P/E of over 26, the Asia Crisis, and Y2K, I bet Warren has seen the writing on the Wall ( St. ) Tomorrow I finalize my major ( for me ) silver purchase assuming it stays put or declines. BTW, gold may rise now. I've already finished buying that. ;- )

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:51 - ID#344308)

excellent mozel...knowledge is the key..the only key.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:51 - ID#318321)
Being a target
You are right, keep a low profile. Or one of my favorite sayings is, 'don't make yourself a target.' Circumspect is the watchword for the next ten years. I used to take get delight in forcefully arguing my point, probably made people wonder about me. My approach now is low key. Just a subtle comment here and there. Every now and then I come accross someone I can talk to and I get it out of my system. Remember everybody: Discretion is the better part of valor. The United States is slowly becoming my worst nightmare!

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:55 - ID#253153)
I just came back from Japan, and what I saw scared me. Companies are going broke left and right. Speaking with a Japanese friend i was told that the Japanese government expect 10% unemployment within the next 6 months. The Japanes people lost faith in their leaders and stopped spending except for necessities. The same analogy applies to to the rest of South East Asia , Korea and now Hongkong . It is just a matter of time before we sink ourself.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:57 - ID#28594)
Life's small amusements...

On the page opposite the victorious Letter-to-the editor from the central bank of Argentina, is a small box News Digest :Argentine Trade Deficit--IMF GUIDELINES BREACHED.
Have themselves a bit of a problem there...12-month accumulated
deficit to almost $5.4bn, breaching guidelines agreed to only last month!
Exports fell 14%...have been increasingly hit by sliding commodity prices and the strength of the dollar, to which the Argentine peso is linked.

(Wed Mar 11 1998 23:58 - ID#227238)
LSteve: In the interests of clarification, the process of not attracting undue personal attention should never dissuade us from spreading the word wherever possible. Mozel, as usual, is vitally correct in that regard.

Unfortunately, we are, for the moment, confined to a narrow venue and find ourselves preaching to the choir. ........ and in danger of mutally reinforcing our worst fears?????