Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:02 - ID#339265)
@JP...You have some pretty interesting, esoteric theories.... explain to me the economic rationale that says we will only have inflation if Fed employees are paid in cash...

...also, keep in mind that a slow, steady deflation is anathema for gold and silver...they will deflate along with everything else ( excluding bonds and cash ) and could drop through the floor.

Only a sudden, severe deflation resulting in global currency turmoil ( including the U.S. buck ) could possibly result in gold and silver rising in value. However, a sudden, severe deflation would most likely knock gold and silver down initially. Only when global currency unrest kicked into full gear could one expect a flight into PM's.

Anyway, thanks for the entertainment!

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:04 - ID#255284)
Up Periscope, Hmm Friday 13 I've had, you can keep it-0- "Noone knows the trouble I see."

It's just a lunar thing. Dinar fash yerself, mon. I watched the beautiful full moon rise over the rolling hills covered with macracarpa trees last night, reflecting SILVER in the duck pond. Strange things always happen@kitco round the full moon. Sometimes it's bun-fights, sometimes a contributor or two forgets to take medication and they fly off the planet, sometimes it's hubris time and some wear sack-cloth & ashes, and today, it seems there's a number of N Americans with their t!ts in a tangle so don't want to play nomore, nomore.

Up to you fellas, but the thing is, you've all learned that the greatest benefit is derived from posting, not lurking on kitco. And, just as, after you been loved by a good woman you won't wanna go back to girls, so you wont really enjoy going back to lurking.

So, y'all come back now, the playground won't be the same without yers.

Singing the blues tonite.. Freightliner Blues..

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:07 - ID#284255)
Emu's and Tigers
"A pledge to stability and independent status alone don't ensure success ( of a common monetary policy ) ... Thus, there's great danger that the ECB will ultimately lapse into a pragmatic policy. Monetary pragmatism means inflationary policy," the statement said.
However, Sohn cautioned, "the impact from the Asian hurricane is not yet here ... . The hurricane is moving in this direction, but it hasn't arrived on our shores yet. Sometime in the second half we'll feel the impact on the economy, on inflation and on the stock market."

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:11 - ID#339265)
Gold is very volatile tonight overseas... doesn't seem to know whether it wants to go up or down...

I believe the resolution of this battle may determine the direction of the metal for the remainder of the month.

As usual, Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:15 - ID#253153)
Deflation theory
Farfel, let me educate you a bit. Hyperinflation inflation, like that of Germany in the 1920s or of the Latin America variety,is impossible under the Federal Reserve structure.In order to have Hyperinflation, the government would have to resort to paying its bills in currency instead of checks. It would require an enormous expansion of its printing facilities and by the time government employees began getting paid in cash instead of checks, the word will be out. Should that happen--and I don't say it won't--my advice would be to put everything in gold and silver.
So far they are paying their bills in checks. We have a credit system in the US and if you are interested I will explain to you how the Federal system works . It will require about 1/2 hr of typing on the keyboard. Unfortunately, very few people in the US really understand the Fed mechanism of creating money. If interested I'll do it tomorrow. Please let me know.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:16 - ID#339212)
@ DBog re: 23:57, @ aurator

I have re-read ANOTHER's posts 3 times and my wife ( who knows little about gold investments ) twice and we are both amazed with what he has to say.

If you think that ANOTHER is just a gold bug, you are wrong. If you don't see depth and wisdom you better read ANOTHER's posts again. Even if he is wrong in his prediction, so what? Is this all you see in him? I anxiously wait to read more of his posts, unfortunately I will be gone to Dallas for a week and I will not be able to access Kitco until 3/19.

Think again before you jump into conclusions.

My friend Aurator, today is a sad day. I hope PETE, TZADEAK and MOZEL come back. If we lose 3-4 more, this forum will be for the birds.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:17 - ID#255284)
Just hang around for 10 minutes..

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:17 - ID#206358)
JAPAN GOOD NEWS.........18000....130 BILLIONS FUND..AFTER 22/03/98
Just heard the news about the japan govt will invest abt 130 billions ( app ) public's fund into the stockmarket.And the target should be push into 18000 ( app ) .The anouncement should be before 22/march/98 !!

let's see!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:18 - ID#267298)
With the risk of being a S**T disturbor, I bet I can
tell you which direction it's going. Look, there's
probably no one more than me that would like to
see the POG rise, but so long as you have this
MANIA in the markets it just isn't going to happen.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:28 - ID#210235)
So what's here, anyway. Whatever it is, it better be good, cause some find contributors to this forum are losing morale and retiring. Seems like symptoms of a bottom. If only Fortune Magazine had run a 128 point headline, "The Death of Gold", along with that article re UBS and Andy Smith.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:31 - ID#284255)
Dreams of a goldbug?
There is wild magic graven in every rock,
contained for white gold to unleash or control -
gold, rare metal, not born of the Land,
nor ruled, limited, subdued
by the Law with which the Land was created
( for the Land is beautiful,
as if it were a strong soul's dream of peace and harmony,
and Beauty is not possible without discipline -
and the Law which gave birth to Time
is the Land's Creator's self-control ) -
but keystone rather, pivot, crux
for the anarchy out of which Time was made,
and with Time Earth,
and with Earth those who people it:
wild magic restrained in every particle of life,
and unleashed or controlled by gold
( not born of the land )
because that power is the anchor of the arch of life
that spans and masters Time:
and white - white gold,
not ebon, ichor, incarnadine, viridian -
because white is the hue of bone:
structure of flesh,
discipline of life.

This power is a paradox,
because Power does not exist without Law,
and wild magic has no Law;
and white gold is a paradox,
because it speaks for the bone of the Land.
And he who wields white wild magic gold
is a paradox -
for he is everything and nothing,
hero and fool,
potent, helpless -
and with the one word of truth or treachery,
he will save or damn the Earth
because he is mad and sane,
cold and passionate,
lost and found.

Stephen Donaldson

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:32 - ID#220325)
D.A. Exactly the information I wanted, excellent!
The physical metal option was what you descibed formerly and now I know where to look for it, what to buy and how much to pay for it. It was great of you to go to this amount of time and effort. MUCH APPRECIATED!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:36 - ID#267298)
Myrmidon - "Depth and Wisdom ?"
ANOTHER may be ultimately right - but "WHEN" ?
Everything "ANOTHER" says may come to pass, but,
if your talking the next thirty or forty years, it's not going to
do me any good, only perhaps my offspring.
I don't believe that most who frequent this forum are
thinking in those terms, but rather, what's going to benefit
me. I am of the opinion that untill this market "MANIA" ends,
PM's are in trouble. When is the "MANIA" going to end ?
Next week, next month, next year? I thought so a year ago.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:37 - ID#339212)
Who dislikes TVX?

Farfel, the article says that TVX will produce 11 million ozs. of silver in 1998, making TVX the world's 3rd largest silver producer. Now I know that you are a silver bull and apart from physical silver, what better play do you see than buying stock in the 5 largest world silver mines?


Thus spake Myrmidon!

PS, sometimes I get the feeling that you don't like RYO, ECO, TVX !!!!!!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:38 - ID#252150)
Puetz is that you posting
under JP

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:42 - ID#57232)
Welcome Down under! Wild day on Kitco! Japan up not down.
aurator: Glad you kept your periscope up? I will add this day to my kitco 'full moon' list. Seems like the day before the full moon is the craziest day, but will have to chck my summary.

farfel: Looks like Japan is going the wrong way. No offense, but I think we need more info directly from Japan. A crash that is delayed nearly 10 years already probably won't be the crash you expect.

I repeat that we should be cautious about writing off the Japanese -- a nation with twice the savings rate of the USA. I think the thing to watch is whether Pres. Hashimoto survives. If he fails, then I think your scenario may apply. If he wins, he will be like that fellow George who killed the dragon. He will go down in history as one of Japans greatest leaders.

I think Larryn is closer to the truth than the rest of us -- inflation of the yen and the dollar will be the rule for the next few years.

See you all in the morning!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:42 - ID#253153)
JP posting
I'm a new participants .

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:43 - ID#252150)
Oris@ Placer Dome
To be honest, I knew it was Kazakhstan, but could'nt spell it. I guess Russia is safer. But then, safety is all relative. I would'nt want to have to depend on an investment over there.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:44 - ID#210235)
Dear mozel, I do hope that your farewell to T1 was for the evening, not the duration. There is an exquisite irony when preparing one's tax return with one eye on Kitco, to reading your posts, which you may be able to appreciate ( how's the sense of humor doing tonight? ) . There are times when your posts have greater impact than other. On the beach in August it's really hard to get worked up over Anything! In March, discovering that one's travel expenses do not meet IRS requirements for deductions, and being warned by the CPA that an audit "guaranteed" this year, well . . . . your posts take on a different significance altogether.

So, if you're ready to take off for the South Pacific, well, so long, and thanks for your time. If you're still around, please, don't give up on the mushrooms.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:46 - ID#339212)
@ DBog

A crash can happen anytime, but if you think otherwise, buy government bonds, or calls on the National debt!

My friend, noone can say when for sure. If we didn't have the government's "geniuses" it would have happened 25 years ago in 1973. But remember what Mr. G. Sorros said: "the capitalist system will see major changes sometime in 2008-2013". These are people "who know", not some "airhead analyst". These were not his exact words but very similar.

Can you wait until then? It is a personal matter.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:47 - ID#255284)
spider in the woodpile
Gau Gauld!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:47 - ID#57232)
Gold will go up!
farfel: Jin's news gives us the answer, I think - for a while, anyway. If the Japanese postal savings is freed up to boost the Japanese markets, the Japanese rally will be bullish for gold.

By the way, I hope Hashimoto cleaned house before releasing the Postal savings funds. If not -- it won't last. But, as I said, perhaps we underestimate Hashimoto.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:50 - ID#253153)
Dow Top
In my opinion,the Dow will top within the next 30-60 days. The bear market will last for about 2-3 years. A major buying opportunity of regular
stocks ,sometimes in the year 2000-2001.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:53 - ID#267298)
I hope you begin to see where I'm coming from.
I don't want to be negative, but I have no choice.
I want to see POG skyrocket, but, I just don't see
it happening under the present situation. Stocks
are "OVER VALUED", you know that, I know that,
but what are the markets doing ? They are going
ever higher almost everyday. This is a "MANIA" and
until it subsides don't expect good news for PM's.
There is only one question in my mind, "How long
will the MANIA last" ? and that is anybody's guess.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:53 - ID#339212)
@ Aurator - Loved by a woman and not wanting to go back to girls?

Someone once said:

"Women are like cars, ...everyone loves his own but he enjoys a ride with another one..."

Don't shoot me, I am only the messenger!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 00:56 - ID#252150)
Myrmidon@Largest Silver Producers
You forgot ABX. I'm quite sure it's in the top 3 & it may even be the largest.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:02 - ID#342376)
Deflationary pressures? How about some Ego-Deflationary pressures?
Never a dull moment here in Kitcoland.......

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:02 - ID#267298)
See, it's working already. I post something negative
on POG and it moves up. Just like when I buy a stock,
it moves down. Like I said in an earlier post, I hope
I'm wrong, REAL WRONG.


Seriously, I hope I am wrong, but I fear not.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:06 - ID#339212)
@ DBog

In spite of what the "experts" at Kitco advise, I still ride the bull with 20% of all liquid assets in the stock market, 65% in gold / silver / platinum stocks and 15% cash.

The 20% in stocks includes profit sharing account. I own no physical for liquidity reasons. Of course, I suffer the consequences of seeing gold stocks act like dogs but since I own 15 of them, one or two going under it will not hurt me a lot. Just a little.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:20 - ID#252150)
Russia@A Marvellous PlaceTo Do Business--If You Are In The Mafia
From the Times:

Mafia grows as a business threat


ORGANISED crime is a growing threat to multinationals, with Russia emerging as the most dangerous place in the world to do business, a report reveals today.

More than 40 per cent of multinationals admit to facing problems with organised crime gangs and the number appears to be on the increase, according to a report produced by the Merchant International Group.

The business intelligence group claims that there are six big crime groupings that pose a particular threat to companies doing business abroad. Two of these are Chechen groups based out of Russia: one is located in Turkey, one in Israel. Two Italian Mafia gangs remain influential in their home country and in Spain.

Stuart Poole-Robb, chairman of MIG, said: "There are six British multinationals doing business in Russia who set up blissfully unaware their Russian partner is heavily involved in organised crime."

While crime is on the increase, the two biggest problems companies face when doing business abroad are corruption and their own ignorance of foreign cultures. MIG ranks Russia, Korea, Thailand and Indonesia as the most difficult places to do business.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:25 - ID#339212)
@ James on ABX silver production

Hard to find silver numbers from the company's web site. I take your word. Must be number 1. Anyone has ABX silver production numbers?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:28 - ID#267298)
Unfortunetly, I am am not as astute as you, ( at least not yet ) ,
As a relative newcomer to investing and very inexperienced
I might add, I switched almost entirely from equities to gold
mining stocks about eight months ago. Needless to say, I
am currently in a substantial "MINUS" position as compared
to a substantial "PLUS" position I could have been in had I
remained where I was. However, I blame no one but myself,
as after all, it was my decision to do what I did. So, I now
find myself in the situation where I cash in and "TAKE MY LUMPS"
or hang in there and like "ANOTHER" hope to Christ that POG
rises, even though as I said earlier I don't think that will happen
anytime soon. What do you think ?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:30 - ID#255284)
"I own no physical for liquidity reasons."
Is it one of your Tax law thingies? cos 9999 is liquid, very liquid.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:37 - ID#339212)
@ DBog

Diversify more into PM stocks or if you sell them switch to a gold mutual fund to offer you good diversification.

Don't look back at the stock market. Stay with the PM stocks or bullion coins if you prefer. If you were in S. Korea or the rest of the S. Asian countries, you would be feeling better about PM investing.

Your time horizon is too narrow. Allow two more years and don't check your stocks on a daily basis. When you see what is to come in US equities you will be glad you were in PMs, although now you are bothered with some minor losses.

By the way, the 20% I have in the stock market is hedged with puts.
I hate to be caught with my pants down, especially in the market!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:42 - ID#286234)
Why is my monitor smokin'?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:44 - ID#255284)
Monitor, Moniker, Monica
has it just been laid?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:46 - ID#339212)
@ aurator

Taxes will have to be paid in stocks or physical if one is to liquidate large amounts. The point is that if I happen to be abroad I can not carry physical with me, and I don't want to leave it in someone else's care.

When I retire I plan of spending at least 6 mos. in Europe every year, either in England or in Greece, or both. Now imagine that I am there and after a good run in the metals I decide to sell. How can one do it? Interrupt the trip to come to the US to run to coin shops to sell? Obviously it is easier to do the trading with stocks, and that is the reason why I selected stocks. Liquidity with a phone call.

Nothing against the physical, but it is impractical for me for personal reasons explained above.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:46 - ID#286234)
JTF, Bart
You want posters from Japan? Should be a snap, just conduct this forum in Japanese language. ;- )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:49 - ID#286234)
I don't know. Monitor wants a new job.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:50 - ID#286234)
Good shot!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:50 - ID#251268)
gold flatlining-----
If it keeps it up then gotta get some more options in the am
goodnight all

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:51 - ID#267298)
Thanks much for the advice,

I'm turning in now so I will mull things over.

Your point about my time horizon being too
narrow is well taken, as are your other points as well.

As i said, I am relatively new to investing. As to
puts and calls and such, I must admit, that's all
over my head at this point. Hope to learn quickly.

Thanks again and

GO GOLD and all your investments.....

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:55 - ID#286234)
I think you logged off and missed my rsponse to you last Friday night.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:57 - ID#286234)
Going to finish off the vodka and count MLs.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 01:59 - ID#339212)
@ sam

I am now going back to check your response of the 6th ( Friday ) , Sorry.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:03 - ID#284255)
Seoul says North's emergency steps an exercise
``This is a normal annual training exercise. It is usually held when food reserves are low and there is a danger of internal rioting,'' a senior military officer in the Defence ministry told Reuters.

Diplomats and aid workers told Reuters that North Korea had issued a statement to the foreign community announcing a ``wartime mobilisation'' from midnight on Thursday.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:05 - ID#255284)
No Problemo.
Without knowing your prohibitions, if any, on exporting gold, I'd simply open some safe deposit boxes in a few banks in the Capitols you'll be travelling in. Spread it around, and some in the Channel Islands, who a long and robust history in offshore banking, unlike the dodgy Caymans that some have advocated here.

You'll be amazed at how much a few sovs will buy once again, soon.

Talking to ANOTHER dealer this pm who brought out from his pocket a small velvet wallet of sovs he carries with him ( for sale ex GST for cash ) --he is from Liverpool-- he said he could not, as a war child in Britain imagine any of his family nor friends ever owning a sovereign, nor a 5 note, and here he was with a small pocketful. What a wonder!

One day, I speculate ( that is with gold coloured spectacles ) that owning a sovereign will once more be beyond the dreams of a family or those known in a neighbourhood. And a pocketful of sovereigns will stand you proud in Europe.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:05 - ID#284255)
Japan Feb bank loan balance drops 0.6% yr/yr--BOJ
The daily average lending balance of Japanese banks in February fell 0.6 percent from a year earlier to 529.93 trillion yen, compared with a 0.2 percent year-on-year decline in January, it showed.

Jiji news agency quoted a BOJ official as saying that February's fall was the largest since the central bank started collecting such data in June 1991.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:06 - ID#284255)
Australian stocks make way to firmer finish
However, there was still a notable reluctance among many investors to try their luck. This attitude was likely to remain for some time, brokers said.

``People are just becoming weary of the market and are not prepared to commit themselves,'' said CIBC Eyres Reed dealer Martin Angel, pointing to uncertainty over Asia and just when Wall Street and record-breaking European markets would slow.

``Wall Street wants to play god at the moment, as do the European markets, but the question is where do these markets go from here.''

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:07 - ID#339265)
@MYRMIDON...The problem with TVX GOLD... essentially management.

I agree with you that there is a good deal of promise to the company. Certainly, large silver production is one major positive in the eventuality that silver prices explode upward someday.

However, I don't think you can disagree with me on one particular point...

...when management released public information only some two weeks ago to the effect that TVX would likely record a $70 million extraordinary hedge gain on its gold & silver positions...and then today, we learn that the hedge gain is actually ONLY $40 million, then don't you think that fairly large discrepancy suggests there is something terribly wrong??

Either management is perpetrating some type of deception upon its shareholders...or else they are awful take your pick.

In either case, management gets a D- for performance IMHO.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:08 - ID#339212)
@ sam on the dynasty

sam, I reread your Sat, Mar 07, 03:40 post which was very interesting. No I did not miss it then and I logged off after I read it. Thanks again.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:09 - ID#286234)
I quit smokin' a few years ago so I didn't get it at first. You know how to get me to laff on Monday right? Now Monitor wants an attorney. :- )

JOE Smith
(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:10 - ID#24869)
Have you ever seen these before
A couple of solid silver nuggets from Elizabeth hill in Australia
weighing more than 2Kg.

other photos available at

cut and paste and look for ecm2.jpg etc

any comments to

file is also on kitco ftp server

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:10 - ID#284255)
INTERVIEW-Carter says Suharto broke IMF pledges
TOKYO, March 13 ( Reuters ) - Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter said on Friday that Indonesian President Suharto had broken commitments he made to the IMF over reforms to his government.

Carter said it was essential for Indonesia's economic recovery that Suharto commit himself to reforms mandated as part of an International Monetary Fund ( IMF ) agreement.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:13 - ID#284255)
INSTANT VIEW - Japan October-December GDP data

TOKYO, March 13 ( Reuters ) - Following are analysts' initial reactions to Japan's gross domestic product ( GDP ) data for the October to December period of 1997.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:15 - ID#284255)
Japan bankruptcy debt up, set for record in 97/98
TOKYO, March 13 ( Reuters ) - Debts of Japanese corporations that went bankrupt in February soared 41.1 percent from a year earlier to 1.05 trillion yen, hitting the highest ever level for that month, a credit research firm said on Friday.
``With the number of bankruptcy cases soaring in February to the second-largest level for the month after 1,639 in February 1984, the economy appears to be in a serious state with concerns arising over its further deterioration,'' Tokyo Shoko said in the report.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:16 - ID#284255)
Tokyo stocks off highs due to North Korea news
TOKYO, March 13 ( Reuters ) - Tokyo stocks remained higher, but off their highs, by mid-afternoon trade on Friday, as participants became cautious over news at midday that North Korea had announced a state of ``wartime mobilisation'' across the country, brokers said.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:17 - ID#339212)
@ Farfel on some dogs I unfortunately own

You are correct that TVX Management can not even be good bean counters.

I had some bad surprises with ECO and yesterday with RYO. Fortunately Oris ( unlike you ) cheered me up a bit.

I started coming to the bitter conclusions that all N. American mines ( with the exception of 2 or 3 ) are badly managed and management should be fired. Sadly, the bad management skills of one mine are copied indiscriminately by the idiot management team of another ( all the idiot forward sales ) . But I am not surprised, this is AMERICA!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:17 - ID#284255)
Fuji Bank denies rumours of financial difficulties

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:20 - ID#284255)
INTERVIEW-MP says LDP to propose FY98 extra budget
``Ten trillion yen is the most that ( the party leadership ) can come up with under the policy of fiscal reform. If that is the case, 'real water' will be limited to around two to three trillion yen,'' Hiranuma said.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:21 - ID#393224)
In the quiet of the night--who knows where the Phantom may strike?

2:07 am ET
Apr gold 2955 +4
May Silver 6190 +5

*****May PORK BELLIES 42225 +1025 ( 2.5%!!! ) ******

Those who did not read the Antipodean Contrarian Newsletter ( Issue # 3 ) ---I feel a big "I told you so" coming on!!

Cherokee/EB--where are you, mates. We need your pork bellious wisdom!!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:21 - ID#339265) your 00:15...FEEL FREE TO EDUCATE ME, SIR...
...I would love to hear you explain to me how the Federal Reserve works.

Now, be very careful and take your time...let me warn you that I have an Economics degree ( specialization in Macro-economics ) obtained at Yale. I say this -- not so much to brag -- but rather to let you know that I have been reading Economics literature since I was a kid back in High School...and am conversant with cutting edge research in the field, from Brookings to the Rand Institute.

So, I will be most interested to hear you elucidate on money and credit creation...and your "interesting" ideas concerning cash, cheques, and hyperinflation. However, I hope you won't mind if I rebut any errors in your logic.

Go ahead...educate me!

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:23 - ID#286234)
aurator, Myrmidon, JTF & all
Good night!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:24 - ID#339212)
@ Aurator

One problem with sovereigns. Some were struck by the Italian government during the war to create confusion and diminish the numismatic value of the real British coins in circulation. The Italian strike was deliberately different, so that an expert eye can tell the counterfeit, but not the common man. This created big problems to the point that the public in some European countries reluctantly accepted British sovereigns. Normally they had to take the coin to a jeweler to ensure that it was a genuine British coin, otherwise the premium was gone.

Now such problem doen't exist because the coins have hardly any premium, but people who know coins can tell if they are authentic or Italian strikes.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:29 - ID#339212)
@ Farfel and Federal Reserve!

Now that "you have been educated", can you explain to me also how the Federal Reserve System works?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:31 - ID#255284)
Interrupt all this news for--
well, perhaps I can reprise that 'un with this 'un--

"An Aussie who shows wise planning for the future is the bloke who buys two slabs of beer instead of just one."

( slab=24 plastic wrapped cans )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:33 - ID#339265)
@MYRMIDON...the problems with ECO and RYO...
...with ECO, the major problem is management...the thinning of the senior ranks leaves one to wonder who is actually running the company now? That's a tough one to answer. It seems to be running on automatic pilot.

..with RYO, you've got a management that errs badly insofar as cost estimates for the most vital project ( Kemess ) it has ever mounted in the company's history. It prematurely announces resolution of a negotiation with bondholders before an actual resolution is achieved. It adopts a poison pill at a time when it is, without doubt, the most unattractive target in the entire gold industry for absorption by a potential acquisitor.

In other words, it too sends signals to the shareholders which can only be categorized ( in the most favorable light ) as deceptive. IMHO.

Do you really want to invest sizable sums with such a company?

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:34 - ID#286234)
one last question
Anybody fly across international borders with coins in pocket or baggage? What happens? Just curious, I'm not planning on flying anyplace soon. I'm also guessing this question might generate some creative responses.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:35 - ID#339265)'s a long explanation so I would much rather....
...Mr. JP fills us in first. After all, he made the offer. Let's hear him out.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:37 - ID#255284)
Is this ANOTHER lesson in humility a'comin' on? Always like my learning...
Ohhhh..can you give me a pointer to ID'ing Italian cf real McCoy sovs?.. hummm darn, gotta really scrutinise ma sovs wiv an intense scrute now.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:38 - ID#393224)
F*,the U
F*,the U
G'day, mate. A coupla more letters and you would be PRONOUNCABLE.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:40 - ID#393224)
F*,the U

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:41 - ID#286234)
Good idea! Think I'll start buying vodka two gallons at a time. What if there's an earthquake or sumpthin'?...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:41 - ID#339212)
@ Farfel

I will not buy a single share of ECO or RYO ( as you know smart money has already moved into these jewels!!! ) . I did some buying months ago, only to regret it now. Merridian ( MDG ) is acting weak among others. TVX may win the Greek battle and get the go ahead for the Kassandra mine.

The answer to all? Gold at $400 soon. If not Kitco will become a sacred burial ground, something like Kemess mine.

I still like calls on the National Debt!!!!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:48 - ID#339212)
@ Aurator on sovereigns

Sorry, I did not know you were aware. Why the preference over 24K pure coins? Hardness in case they are used as money? Doesn't the 0.2354 oz content create a logistic problem vs. a round number ( 0.25 oz. ) coin?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:49 - ID#339265)
@MYRMIDON..I am sorry to hear you have taken your lumps...
...let me make one thing clear...I am not telling you to sell your positions.

Anything is possible in this world. 400 dollar gold tomorrow...why not? When the loss of faith comes in the currency, it will be very rapid...most equities owners will not have the time to shift into PM's at these low price levels.

And in such a scenario, even the worst gold lemons would turn out to be
gold diamonds.

Unfortunately, with respect to some of the N. American golds, bankruptcy is just a stone's throw around the corner.

You must decide if these companies have enough staying power to be around when the great gold slingshot occurs.

THus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:53 - ID#255284)
You an Aussie, cobber?
earthquakes huh? Mate, you know I live on the Pacific Ring of Fire? NZ is overdue for a big one. A big one. THis am talking radio heads talking, we is long overdue for a mag 7.5+ down the Great SOuthern Fault. looks like the Southern ALps on your maps... Then others say that one of Auckland's 42 volcanoes is more likely to blow ( or maybe just grow #43 ) than an earthquake.

Metal detectors in airports detect ferrous metals ( I think ) precious would be seen on X-rays in your luggage ( ? )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 02:57 - ID#393224)
As it is the wee hour of the morn' and noone is going to read this anyway, I would like to have a go at all the weenies out there whom are afraid to put their moola on the line at the BOTTOM of a long bear market. Your fears are exactly what is SUPPOSED to happen at the bottom of a long bear!! In fact, to be true to form, you should be SELLING all of the gold shares/options etc. that you bought at much higher prices. This is what happens at the BOTTOM of long bears!!! It takes GUTS to buy right now. You are all alone--on your lonesome. What if I am wrong? you say. I am lower than the lowest. I am nothing. I will lose all my money. My family, friends etc. will ridicule me.

Contrarian??? Buy now.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 03:04 - ID#255284)
I gotta match-- where's that fuse?
No, I have no preference for sovs nor Krands,. In fact as both attract GST at 12.5% ( well, supposedly, I did not realise how easy it was to skirt GST with sovs ) my preference has been with 9999 bars and coins.
Then Nick@Candelabracadabra got me thinking. I can diversify my metal holding and increase its liquidity.

For example, Many more Europeans are familiar with sovs than mapes, or our local kiwis. Also, the Indians have a long history of accepting sovereign coins. THen, the tola bars, previously scorned by this fella, have a greater liquidity amongst the Chinese and S Asians. Gold is international, just some people trust measures from antiquity, like the Dinar, I guess. Therefore, consistant with the Zurich Axioms, I do not diversify, just ensure liquidity of my assets.

THat, imho, is the problem with paper gold. It is, or may become illiquid. Your 12 different paper gold stocks have the same liquidity risk. If you can't sell XYZ Ltd in a crash, you can't sell ABC neither.

Noone will touch paper, when the touch-paper is lit.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 03:06 - ID#339212)
@ sam and aurator

Some countries have strict laws on gold importation. Greece for example demands that if you bring more than 4 coins into the country they must be declared.

I am sure that if someone tried to bring $10,000 in gold coins into the UK, Her Majesty's customs will demand a tax to be paid on the spot.

Most governments have made it difficult to transport coins. The US also requires to declare any amounts greater than $20,000 leaving the country, and I think the limit is less for gold.

Now one can get around it by breaking the law, but, I don't think it is worth it and unwise for someone to spend his retirement in jail for breaking some stupid law, created by some stupid goverment agency.

I will be leaving you all now, until March 18th. Good night gentlemen.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 03:17 - ID#286234)
Nope, not an Aussie. So Cal. What is a cobber?

I would think the inspectors checking passengers at airport check- stations are efficient at finding weapons but would they even know what a gold coin is? ( Well in some countries I guess they might. ) Same for x-rayed baggage. I'm sure they could find a roll of coins if they were looking for them but I'll bet too many innocuous items look too similar on x-ray. Maybe people with actual experience will keep mum...?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 03:17 - ID#339212)
@ aurator

Gold is subject to confiscation by most governments and this may create a greater illiquidity problem than some think. Of course, black markets which are the REAL MARKETS will allow some liquidity to coin or bullion holders. But at what risk.

Now the question: Why not Platinum coins? I am not aware of any restrictions yet in existence except for the dollar amount transferred across borders. Platinum is not considered BARBARIC, at least until now.

One more think going for Platinum: to the environmental parasites it is the favored metal! They will never bad mouth it!

I will not post anymore tonight, but I will read posts for another 10 mins. Goodnight.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 03:22 - ID#339212)
@ Nick of 02:57

Contrarian I am, but no more RYO or ECO. Got enough. I am in search of other dogs who don't bite owners in the a@@h!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 03:23 - ID#255284)
You'd fit right in down under
cobber has 2 meanings in NZ. The one I refered to was an "Aussie". The other meaning is used to describe a mate, a friend. I guess that says a lot about the kiwis and aussies huh?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 03:33 - ID#286234)
I am honored! And same to ya! Good night all, last time, really.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 03:43 - ID#35767)
What happened was beyond mgmt control. I think someone is trying to sabotage them to make money on short bonds and maybe pick up their properties on the cheap. Co. needs about 30 million and should have no trouble scrounging it up. With Kemess on line the stock should do well. We are so pessimistic on gold that we accentuate every negative about stocks and ignore the positive or potentially optimistic outcomes.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 03:47 - ID#252391)
Lets see if Europe can run with the ballo
Can Europe run with th PM ball or is the alure of their stock markets too great for there to be any interest in the precious metals.?

Affraid I think th gold chart is looking pretty tired. The fact that it hasn't broken is the most bullish thing going for it. Best thought I saw here tonight is that the DOW will peak in the next 30-60 days and that the metals will rally thereafter. That idea puts the even far enough out that we can say its going to happen and not be wrong for quite a while.

On ABX, did anybody ever come back and say how much silver ABX mines?

Silver is the one - at least the demand is exceeding the supply mined and sold by central banks./ Oh yes I remember the EUU will be backed by a litle gold and that will be bullish and mark the end of the central bank sales and gold will therefore go up. Yeh, got to remeber gold will go up, its been failing every rally for how many year? Maybe to 295.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 03:57 - ID#255284)
Proud to be an aurator, cos that's what I am. You can call me,ator.
"We are so pessimistic on gold that we accentuate every negative about stocks and ignore the positive or potentially optimistic outcomes."

"What d'ya mean "we" ROR-man?" ;-}

I is a happy gold bug. Just me and my Italian sovereigns. Clicka clinka. Would someone, not noone, tell me how to ID an Italian sov? I s'pose it's 9k plated, and I suppose I just bought 10 of em.

Psst any TLA wanna buy a sov and an ACN? See ya behind the pillory after we checked out the village idiot.


The bridge of sighs.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 04:05 - ID#286234)
What will happen to gold?
Maybe y'all discussed this already. Clipped from Nando News-
"The superstitious may want to stay inside
Friday evening. In a spooky confluence, this Friday the 13th
coincides with a full moon AND a lunar eclipse...."

Good night, again. Once I get in bed I'm stayin' there.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 04:20 - ID#252127)

Wouldn't whoever tryed to pick up RYO be liable for the large debt plus the cost overun if RYO is bought out before bankruptcy
I think that if someone picked them up after a breakup caused by Chapter 11, it might take many years, if ever before Kemess is mined.
My quess is that British Columbia and Canada have to much to lose and they probably will arrange for something palitable to all parties involved.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 04:20 - ID#393224)
Sovs were struck at various colonial mints. Look for the mint mark.
On the St.George/Dragon type it is found on the base below the right rear hoof of the horse.On shield type below the shield. On Italian fakes, look for a pizza just in front of the King's/Queen's mouth.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 04:29 - ID#255284)
call me ator and I'll bite your head off, (sweetly) thassh aurator de rooter
Eclipse at 04:20 GMT.

The sky didn't fall.

Anyone wanna buy some soverini?

Is this offensive? THis from the land of crock dundee, ALice Springs ( a dry river ) and Feral Cheryl?

"An aussiw had been wandering the Outback for months. He finally came to a farm wher a pretty girl met him at the gate.
"D'ya root?" he said.
"No," she replied,"but you talked me into it you silver tongued bstard."

What's Italian for fleeced? baa.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 04:35 - ID#255284)
By shield you mean 1/2s?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 04:46 - ID#248180)
Russia Gold Reserves & Moodys
MOSCOW, March 11 ( Interfax-FIA ) - The Moody's international agency has reduced Russia's long-term foreign currency debt rating from Ba2 to Ba3 and the debt rating of Russian banks from Ba2 to B1. Russia is still being affected by the increased instability of international markets. Growing state liabilities handicap the servicing of the national debt and bring additional pressure on the already difficult fiscal situation in the country, says an agency press release made public in Moscow Wednesday. The reduction of the Bank of Russia's gold and hard currency reserves and the larger short-term liabilities of the country are undercutting Russia's solvency, it says. The falling prices on commodity markets will have a very negative impact on Russia's current balance of trade and payment, the agency's report says. The higher exchange rate will harm the competitiveness of Russian goods on world markets, Moody's analysts believe. The year 1998 is likely to be hard on Russia financially, and 1999 and 2000 will be difficult politically because of the parliamentary and presidential elections, the agency predicts. Moody's welcomes the Russian government's steps to reduce the budget deficit, the drafting of a new Tax Code and the tough anti-inflationary policy pursued by the Bank of Russia. Moody's expects Russian authorities to continue trying to win the trust of foreign investors and to consolidate the institutions and infrastructure so as to make economic growth possible. The ratings of Eurobonds issued by Russia, Komi Republic, Krasnoyarsk territory, Moscow city, Nizhny Novgorod, Samara and Sverdlovsk regions, Tatarstan and also Tatneft, Lukoil, Alrosa and MGTS companies have been downgraded to Ba3, the press release says. Moody's also reduced the ratings of five Russian banks, Avtobank, Menatep, the National Reserve Bank, Uneximbank and Vneshtorgbank, in foreign currency debt from Ba3 to B1.

Please note that I have posted the above, and make particular reference to the statement "The reduction of the Bank of Russia's gold and hard currency reserves and the larger short-term liabilities of the country are undercutting Russia's solvency, it says. "

I thought that the latest economic wisdom was that countries and central and reserve banks do not need gold reserves? Just the US$ ?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 05:07 - ID#228283)
Getting through security...

wrap your k rands in U.S. "quarter" wrappers and keep it in your pocket. At the metal detector simply put the roll,along with some change into the plastic cup and walk thru. It worked for me. Oh..Be sure to tighten your belt so your pants dont sag.. those coins weigh a bunch!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 05:13 - ID#316193)
John Crudele -- "Look For Trouble From Japan"

(Fri Mar 13 1998 05:19 - ID#228283)
Smugling.... my hobby..

everything you want to know, but were afraid to ask..good night from the chilly Midwest.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 05:30 - ID#330175)
SPECTACULAR sunrise over Scaterie Island
With icebergs floating on a calm sea~~~~~

(Fri Mar 13 1998 05:40 - ID#233199)

Just don' try to swim any rivers with those things in your pockets!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 05:52 - ID#316193)
Opinions From Bridge News, Palladium at 18 Year High

(Fri Mar 13 1998 05:56 - ID#35767)
The assets and other properties are worth much more than the debt. Remember the company is capitalized at 130 million and 500 million US has gone into Kemess alone.This is without considering the value of the other properties their other operating facilities and their equity investments and equipment. A securities firm ( tejas Securities I believe out of Dallas ) did an analysis showing that in Chap Liquidation the bondholders would all be paid off and there would still be .65-.90US per share for shareholders.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:01 - ID#256326)
I have no idea why longitudinal vectors "work". As a lifelong student of human physiology and psychology I do sense that we know so very little about the small bodies and minds we inhabit all our lives, that our knowledge of the universe as a whole is laughably minuscule. Does that help?;- )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:02 - ID#248180)
@ Manners
Excuse me, CHEERS!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:02 - ID#248180)
Green & Gold Colors on Chart look Smart
Bart's chart is startin to look good again.
Ted your morning view report sounds mystical and stunning. But Mate, I wouldn't trade these warm sunny days on the Great Southern Ocean shores for nothin. Now back to another Coopers ale or shall that be a VB.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:07 - ID#330175)
Nick @C(2:57)
how true.....

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:09 - ID#330175)
ROR..............are you having a mid-life CRISIS er somethin
I've noticed ( nothin gets by MOI ) that you have been posting @ strange ( for you if possible ) times of the early AM...or is bein a LAWYER startin ta get ta ya???

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:18 - ID#248180)
Boris Yeltsin Reported Sick
Guess Moody's lowered credit ratings does have some effect.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:21 - ID#252391)
Gold over 295
Gosh its a bull market, gold is over 295

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:28 - ID#330175)
Thailand...................Who's ta blame

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:32 - ID#248180)
Oris more of your views regarding the facts and mind of Russians with specific regard to deal making and reporting statistics would be most appreciated. Your comments about Russians reminds me of the search and analysis of the Russian mind by F.M. Dostoyevsky "Crime & Punishment". It was a most difficult read for me.

Go "ZOLOTA" that's Gold in Russian Cheers!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:34 - ID#248180)
@ "Lickarrstva" - Oris, Boris Needs Vodka, "Bistro"!!
Oris more of your views regarding the facts and mind of Russians with specific regard to deal making and reporting statistics would be most appreciated. Your comments about Russians reminds me of the search and analysis of the Russian mind by F.M. Dostoyevsky "Crime & Punishment". It was a most difficult read for me.

Go "ZOLOTA" that's Gold in Russian Cheers!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:37 - ID#411331)
@all: Gold will do nothing until the DOW corrects. Watching the price of gold
fluctuate over a $3 per oz range is hardly a productive use of time or
emotion. If gold has been in an 18 year decline, and now a bottoming phase, surely we can wait with some patience for the maximum month or two that this equities market has in it before it corrects. My fear is
that the correction takes the form of a crash, and that gold stocks are
pulled down too.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:38 - ID#286199)
Notes from the WSJ
Investors picked up the pace of their stock-fund buying in February and are showing no signs of slowing down this month. Stock funds
pulled in about $19.5 billion of new money last month, according to an
estimate released Thursday by the Investment Company Institute.

PALLADIUM: Futures rose at the New York Mercantile Exchange because of ongoing concerns about delayed exports from Russia, the world's largest producer. The March contract rose $5.80 to $261.50 a troy ounce.
Russia's finance minister Mikhail Zadornov said export contracts for platinum group metals will be signed in "the very nearest future."

The Russians are learning how to play this game, aren't they?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:51 - ID#252391)
Right On Rhody
I share your sentiments exactly, Rhody. The US and European stock markets don't seem to have gotten quite to the point of quitting. When they do we can tell what form the decline will take. If it is sudden which you suspect everything could be pulled down with it. We've seen that happen before in the last 18 years. As I have been mussing on these pages it may be alot smarter to await on the sidlines until a turn is in place. Except for a few stocks like CDE I find it very difficlut to get positive on this action. I fear my hopes far out weigh the objective. Just think we're to early.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:54 - ID#286199)
North Korea military moves limit Japan rally

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:56 - ID#330175)
@ Cape Breton
April Gold UP .90 @ 2-9-6 and S+P Futures up 4.0~~~~~~

(Fri Mar 13 1998 06:59 - ID#330175)

(Fri Mar 13 1998 07:10 - ID#36965)
Morning all and Ted
Goodmorning all. Hi Ted, long time no see. I finally bought those gold coins I was planning to buy and from Kitco yet. They were pretty easy to deal with and were about the best in price. Probably now that I have invested $5M in gold that will be all that it will take to drop gold to $250 oz. I look for a bullish day in the metals today and a correcton for paper. That's the short tort's retort.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 07:18 - ID#26793)
Fuji Bank denies rumors it is having financial difficulties

(Fri Mar 13 1998 07:21 - ID#26793)
Japan heading for first recession in 23 years

(Fri Mar 13 1998 07:25 - ID#26793)
Japan has 14 straight months of rising bankruptcies

(Fri Mar 13 1998 07:32 - ID#26793)
A new problem for the President
First she told her story to
a grand jury. Now Kathleen
Willey tells 60 MINUTES the
details of what she says was
an unwelcome sexual
encounter with President
Clinton in the Oval Office
and what happened after
that. The interview with Ed
Bradley, taped late Thursday
( 12 ) in Richmond, VA., will
be broadcast Sunday, March

(Fri Mar 13 1998 07:34 - ID#26793)
My last post. I disavow that copyright.
It came from the Drudge Report

(Fri Mar 13 1998 07:45 - ID#224363)
tolerant1 @ Thu Mar 12 1998 21:35

The point I was trying to make about the valule of gold is there is an 'new' generation of investors that DON'T have an opinion on gold. The very fact that they don't have an opinion implies that they don't VALUE the protective power of gold. Years of negative press, positive growth and hyper-active markets have all helped to solidify this view.

Many non-North Americans/Europeans that still live non-western lifestyles believe in gold and KNOW its value. However, once an investor becomes westernized...the value of gold quickly disappears and is replaced by paper.

Unfortunately...I think it will take a number of events to change this situation. I say unfortunately because I think it will a series of negative events such as a market crash, inflation, etc. followed by press that says 'world's greatest investors take huge stage in precious metals'. Buffet's purchase of silver the Soros Silver and Gold plays are still minor events in the trillion dollar paper market.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 08:21 - ID#411233)

(Fri Mar 13 1998 08:21 - ID#252391)
Well said PMF
Well put, PMF, agree with you whole heartedly. It will be shocking events that eventually get the "new generation" of paper bulls to recognize that PMs have a very important place. That still feels like years away. The start of the trend could be now, but then hasn't somebody been saying that all the way down for 18 years. What's to say the stock market doesn't go up another 25% and take a year to do it while gold and silver lanquish.

Warren Buffetts report to share holders, tomorrow, will get much press and could again ignite the fire under silver, at least for a few cent's pop. It is important indeed that he has entered the market, if he hasn't left.

Once the tide turns we all agree there's alot of paper to chase a little metal but while my impatient side wishes the tide would turn sooner rather than later my objective side says it may be some time before it does and not be so easy as stocks down metals up. The Asians haven't been buying gold. Demand from Asia declined late last year. I bet we see DOW 10,000 before a top is in place, about, what 17% higher from here. That print ought to bring every last dollar. Both fortunately and unfortunately my traditional equity investments will have long before been liquidated.

Hope to read more of your comments

(Fri Mar 13 1998 08:28 - ID#288369)
T#1......What the Hell?.....Gone is Mozel?
Dear God, Tolerant and Ted....Sir Mozel is a huge portion of this forum....a steadfast pillar that supports the strange structure of KITCO. Who pissed him off? May the villian inherit chicken fungus of the anus ( with his hands tied behind his back with a diamond-back rattler ) . Geezehus H. ! Bring forth the slimey ignoramus that offended Sir Mozel and stand back! The Golden Sword of Justice will convey its warm greeting to this felon on this the Friday of the Thirteenth of March.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 08:32 - ID#252391)
Good Morning America
What's it going to be today the 13th - Friday. As for the metals it looks like a very slightly higher opening - maybe very slightly. Then down to get every body spooked, then up. This is your chance America for two days up in a row for silver - you've got oil up a nickle, Clinton in more trouble on 60 minutes, Warren Buffett possibly to say something bullish on silver on Saturday, the American economy certainly isn't slowing down based on the DOW which should be up 100 sometime during the proceeding today. What a benign situation for a five cent rally in silver - you can do it America - two days up in a row!!!! Come on, BUY!!!!

I'll give you 6 to 4 they can't do it - we won't see two lousy days up in a row. Christ, silver is now down and gold is wilting. . . .

(Fri Mar 13 1998 08:45 - ID#288369)
@Sir Donald, Duke of Documents....
Again, as always, a kind "thank you" for your gathering and posting of the news. [:~@ Now back to honing the hot blade.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 08:50 - ID#246224)
Palladium in striking distance to Gold, 2-7-2 vs 2-9-5
People are just getting tired of no real action in gold. They will come back 1 ) when their predictions pan out, 2 ) when gold rallies, 3 ) when they can't find a better place to play.

FWIW I will continue to absolutely bore you folks to tears with my posts. I don't think you could get rid of me if you called the local pest control company. Sorry, but torture is just your lot!!!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 08:54 - ID#261118)
Thanks for the response; let us know ( if you've time ) of any changes in your thinking.If you send a blanket "E" on ocassion, mine is: sense you sometimes get frustrated with what people here on this site are willing to swallow, ( "another" comes to mind ) ,when ignoring the obvious but I find your more often than not,rather "on the mark". Do ocassion to throw us a bone now and then my friend!

good hunting- my compliments & regards

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:00 - ID#356379)
Circular commentaries

Has anyone determined the amount of time it takes for this forum to repeat itself with theories of what must happen before gold rallies?

For example, we are now getting another round of "Gold can't rally until the US stock market collapses" comments, which I suspect will be followed by astute observations regarding the tendency of PM company stocks to drop with the rest of the market, and then someone will add that the bond market and interest rates must fall/rise first.

Sheesh! By now surely everyone must know that gold will rally when the dollar begins a long term slide against the Yen and Mark, unless of course, Jupiter is aligned with Mars in the age of Aquarius... In which case the CB's will lease more gold unless they sell it to people who continue to remain unknown.

Well, I'm glad I straightened that out for everybody. And no, I'm not ANOTHER, either. Although we may have been inseparable twins in a previous life, buying and selling bullion to each other when the LBMA was just getting started and the Rothchilds were cornering the market on bronze.

Back to the still... RR

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:05 - ID#356379)

Gosh, Bart! I really like my copyright! It gives my ramblings an air of authenticity. Something to hand down to the kids. Especially since my long term position in PM stocks may never amount to much of an inheritence. Off to a frame shop.... RR

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:10 - ID#288369)
@Allen (America)......Perhaps Mozel hyper-ventilated....
in his earnest quest to free us of our ignorance. He must be a bit WEARY of our ambivilance toward federal government illegal control. Maybe when he regains breath?
Now, a short and sick oil partner goes golfing on a warm day in December. He has purchased a new "golfing" shirt on a trip to Florida. He notices how comfortable the rag feels and has one of his pals look at the manufacturer's tag inside the collar. It was made by "Cutter and Buck".
The next day at our office, he says to me, "Man, this Cutter and Buck shirt I bought the other day is a fine shirt. I think I'll see who makes them and buy some of their stock." He buys 1000 shares of CBUK in late December for $19./share.

He sold it this week for $27.. Any wonder left why we're bored by the price of gold? GO GOLDBUGS!!! ( TO WHERE I DON'T KNOW! )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:24 - ID#341189)
China posts surprising trade surplus - exports holding up - THEY SAY!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:28 - ID#375108)
All aboard....stand clear of the doors, please...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:28 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Back in town. Now, I do believe a bunch of stops are going to get run on the silver. And I don't believe it'll be the shorts that liquidate. 5.65 - 5.7 coming up on the May futures? Perhaps. But, should it see much above 6.22 we may have a quite different scenario develop.

Gold could now make a break for 285 April basis if it ain't particularly careful. Else, it also won't take much for a push to 303 to get underway. Watch for 296.3 April, or just above for a clue. I believe a break below 294.3 puts the handwriting on the wall for the 'southern' direction.

Watch sugar. It should be close to making a bottom just under 9.0 May contract. Crude and heating oil? What can I say except I'm certainly glad I buy at support. Don't need much less to tell me to reverse. Grains bouncing off of resistance. Then we see what kind of grits they got. Looks like cattle has some decent upside potential. Hogs ready too? They make look like copper over the recent days. Paladium overtaking gold. What a concept. Platinum will encounter some stiff resistance at 400. Cotton moving UP! Stoxs should now again be making a transition day. Watch the action on them though. Slippery bastards.

Just my current thoughts and as usual, all caveats apply. And who pissed off Mozel?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:32 - ID#25588)
Silver Trade
Silver Trade Update - I was stopped out of my May Silver yesterday at 6.18 with a 9 cent profit ( $450 ) per contract. Shorted it again at the opening at 6.225 stop 6.25. If silver closes under 6.00 look for 5.50 real quick. 2-3 day counter trend trade, sell June SnP at 1094.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:34 - ID#410194)
Gold & Silver news
Extremely quiet action again in the Gold market overnight as it continues to absorb the news of South Korea Gold sales now totalling 205 tons ( $1.84 billion ) without a major washout. Open interest has been on a steady increase since the January highs when the short covering halted. The very small trading range and the lack of downside pressure is now a bit supportive. The agressive bears should remember to "never sell a quiet market". Everybody should also be aware however that there are talks among the "inner circle" of the Central banks that they are lined up to sell more gold as soon as Gold recovers to the $305-$310 area.

In Silver, buyers from January and early February have lost interest and are mostly out of the market judging by the decline in open interest. Silver has corrected the overbought condition and a minor recovery to the upside is posible on a move above 625 after last week's lows held yesterday. A move under 596 could be devastating though.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:38 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Oops. One correction to my previous posting. 6.22 silver should read 6.25 silver.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:44 - ID#255217)
Pd up again, ho hum
NY Merc. Mar Pd $275.00/oz. +$13.50. If gold moved up that much in a week Kitco would collapse in ecstacy. Kinda makes you want to throw up, doesn't?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:44 - ID#287223)
ELDO: re your 9:28; you've got some good calls there. Where you been?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:46 - ID#342282)
PMF re your 07:45 today
Your post brings back to mind what objectives the N.A gold mines and/or the WGC might do to correct. Roughly, a merchandising program similar to DeBeer's for diamonds ( class ) and one or all provide a mint and refinery for their products ( RETAIL ) . Check Polarbear's post, 3/12 @ 04:29 ie.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:48 - ID#258427)
REALISTIC...I read and appreciate your posts, but
how do you know what's going on in the "inner circle" of the CBs relating to gold sales in the $305 range?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:49 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Savge -- Some offsite slave duty. Happens from time to time. Sometimes rather unexpectedly.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:52 - ID#411259)
..... Silver .....

All week long, I Have been looking for a test of the sell stops at 5.90 and lower. They will try it again today. The "they" I refer to is the omnipresent THEY who are responsible for all market manipulations, the Kennedy assassination, and the current obsession with four dollar cups of coffee with names like, "Triple Grande, double low fat, half caf, no foam latte' with a sprinkle of Belgian Chocolate" We are all puppets dancing at the end of the strings held by the great and mysterious THEY. Anyway, they will try to break the sell stops. A close above 6.14 today would be a good sign for further gains next week. I'm adding to my silver positions as it consolidates, I think there is lots-o-play left in our shiny cousin.

I'm buying platinum - not a quickie trade, will probably take a couple months - but platinum will rally. The first decisive close above 400 should spell the breakout. I prefer to buy platinum as it moves rather that treading water with it for months at a time in a 20 dollar range.


(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:55 - ID#269409)
@ Realistic....Gold activity...Are You Sure?? can you say "extremely quiet action" and "The agressive bears should remember to "never sell a quiet market"....and you even say " Everybody should also be aware however that there are talks among the "inner circle" of the Central banks that they are lined up to sell more gold as soon as Gold recovers to the $305-$310 area."

Aren't you aware that "ANOTHER" has stated a BIG buyer is moving on the Gold market right now, with the intent of "sending a message" that Gold is expected to go into the $320 to $360 range? How did both you, and all the Central Bank insiders miss this important fact?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:55 - ID#213265)
@the scene
RJ -- Good to hear from you.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:56 - ID#341189)
SDRer & Donald - It's off and running - First euro denominated bond issue

(Fri Mar 13 1998 09:58 - ID#222231)
Posted this yesterday and got no response. OFF SUBJECT(ABOUT GOLD)


Reference: golden-eagle editorial by Abu Bekr al-Rashid. ( delete en from golden )

If you notice chart of gold cost per 100bls of oil from 1987 to
1997 as shown in the above location, the conservative oil
producers have recieved roughly 4oz to 6oz of gold per each
100bls of oil.
CHART 1 - $US Price of Gold
"On the day our plan went into effect spot gold was $472 per
ounce. Exactly 10 years later it is $325. Exemplary gentlemen,
that represents a compound annual price reduction of 3.66%.
Admirable. It allowed us to accumulate substantial quantities of
the noble metal, which as you all well-know is an important part
of our cultural need and long-term planning."
CHART 2 - $US Price of Crude Oil
"On the day our plan went into effect spot crude oil was $19.02
per barrel. Exactly 10 years later it is $21.02.
Exemplarygentlemen, that represents a compound annual price
increase of ONLY 0.97%. LESS than One Percent per annum.
That is less than half the world's population growth rate.
Admirable. It allowed you to economically build your economies
and industries with cheap energy costs."
CHART 3 - Gold Cost of Crude Oil
"Through the mechanism of our plan the oil-producing States
have sold their depleting asset to the rest of the world at an
ever-increasing gold price. On the day our plan went into effect
the Gold Cost of Crude Oil was 4.04 ounces of gold/100 barrels.
Exactly 10 years later it is 6.67 ounces of gold/100 barrels.
Exemplary gentlemen, this represents a 4.82% compound annual
gold-price increase of our crude oil. In sharp contrast most world
commodities have NOT done nearly as well.
Well done gentlemen, well done!"

I think the key factor is when this imaginary? plan began, the
conservative oil producers were getting 4.04oz gold/100bls of
oil. This ratio of gold to oil was a critical point in 1987.
The current ratio is approximately 4.81oz gold/100bls of oil.
$14.20/bl times 100/$295.00/oz = 4.81.

June futures for gold = $296.90/oz
June futures for oil = $14.99/bl
ratio = 14.90x100/296.90 = 5.02oz gold/100bls of oil

Is it payback time for the oil producers? Could this be part of the
reason for oil prices dropping. After you consider that gold
prices have dropped more dramatically than oil in the past ten
The amount of gold sold in forward sales probably was to oil
producers and mining producers in combination. Future
between CBs and mining producers is probably part of the
equation to the oil producers. Do not the mining producers have
to sell
this gold on the open market? Why not take the dollars in part
instead of only gold and an agreement between gold producers
oil interests to purchase gold sold forward. This would cut out
the middleman and the public. It would give future delivery to
oil producers or physical gold in proportions as dictated by
current market conditions. By using these tools, the price of
can be controlled in an orderly manner. imaginary? So far it
seems to be working.
The cash generated by oil sales could easily corner the gold
market. Purchasing in this way would make the price of gold too
high, which would be self defeating. The oil producers could
purchase gold in a slow methodical way with the help of CBs
and mining producers in collussion, with a small portion of thier
cash. Part of the rest of oil monies generated by oil sales may
be a part of the deal of oil for gold. This money has to be
invested somewhere. Can anyone calculate the amount of
available thru oil sales that could be invested other than gold?
Why not US stocks and bonds. This all together might explain
the strength of the dollar, lower than normal interest rates, and

The only thing I see defeating this scheme is a HUGE demand for physical gold by the public. Even this can be squashed by hoards the CB's and oil producers have by shorting the market with tons of backing. We've seen what the Fed can do to keep the markets from falling with the plunge protection team in conjunction with ( probably ) PETROL $US. I'm not trying to bust anyones hopes for gold, just facing the facts as I see them, at least in the near future.




(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:01 - ID#341189)
LME will allow trading in euro

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:02 - ID#348286)
You are a brave man buying in this market. Kudos to you.
This is a bear market no doubt, but all bear markets end sometime......

Interesting Times
(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:04 - ID#423355)
farfel: TVX earnings
Here's a repost of the portion of the TVX earnings statement pertaining

to hedge position gains:


At year end 1997, TVX had a substantial hedge position for gold and silver, with an estimated mark-to-market value of

US$105 million. When silver prices increased in early February 1998 on the news that Warren Buffett's company, Berkshire

Hathaway Inc., held a large silver position, TVX monetized its gain on gold, and opened up its exposure to silver price

increases previously capped by call options. At the completion of this restructuring, the company realized a net gain of

approximately US$40 million. This gain is lower than that previously announced due to further costs in increasing the upside

participation for silver in 1998 and 1999 and reducing calls in subsequent years. Today, put options cover one million ounces

of gold at US$280 an ounce and 10 million ounces of silver at US$5.00. In the third quarter of 1997, the company also

realized a gain of US$13 million on its gold hedge position when it reduced the strike price relating to part of the position.


Looks like they reallocated part of these funds to future positions,

rather than misplacing $30 million somewhere. The stock, I notice, is up

again this morning...

Regards to you and all the Kitcoites,

I.T. ( a brand new poster )

Interesting Times
(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:10 - ID#423355)
format woes
Sorry about my disjointed TVX post... I now have the proper fear of the ENTER key...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:20 - ID#330175)
Long time no C---welcome back to the club!!!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:21 - ID#410194)
Oh S_ _ _ ! Now I've done it....

You're right, I totally forgot about Another's post and his statement about the big "buy" that will send Gold to $320 - $360 in 5-10 days!

How could I do such a stupid thing? How can I forget what he said?

To repent, I'm ready to wait a bit longer before reposting his statement and here is what I'm ready to do:

Let's give him 5 to 10 "trading" days ( now that's being generous ) since his post before we officially include him in the club of all those who make silly emotional & unprofitable calls ( we know who they are ) .

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:21 - ID#348286)
In short, this is a confirmed bear market in Gold. All bear markets end - sometime. The key now is taking a position you can sustain long term, and waiting.
From all my readings, I am convinced there are 3 reasons for this bear:
1. Central banks are selling, and they make no excuses about it.
2. Short sellers are playing heavily in this market, and they know they have a good thing going - for now.
3. The average JOE public sees the price, and has no inclination to put any of his assets in a declining commodity. He has no clue about the history and safety of owning a real asset - Gold.

When it boils down to it, thats all it takes for this bear to run.
There are plenty of reasons why this will not last forever, and it won't,
but thats ANOTHER story.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:25 - ID#269409)
Sounds fair to me! That gives him till next Friday before joining the "Kitco Hall of Shame".....

( Where IS that guy who's name rhymes with Ditz anyway?? )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:25 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Pete -- Perhaps oil is about to make a bottom very soon. I wonder what might cause that. I'm sure we'll also read about that after the fact. Crude prices might actually become quite explosive to the upside. NOW's the time to be buying calls. Somekind of sh_t looks about ready to hit a few important paper items, I think, and physical commodities are mostly getting well ready for some ongoing moves up. Perhaps a lot of inflation being seen on the horizon? Sh_t hitting fan?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:25 - ID#20767)
First Post
All: Why would anyone take a signicant short or long Ag position before knowing the content of WBs upcoming message to BH shareholders?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:28 - ID#286230)
Realistic: As I recall ANOTHER has until a week today-close- to be right and the rest of his/her life to be like the rest of us.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:30 - ID#330175)
Studio.R................and let's get to the bottom of 'this'..........* go team gold*
By 'this' I mean Mozel's disappearance from our 'friendly forum'----who is responsible for this travesty of justice ( is there any ) ---once YOU are found you will be dealt with in a way YOU won't like!---Re-Cutter& Buck--their CEO was on CNBC this mornin ( do they make steel-toe boots? ) --back to pre-game B-ball perparations~~~~~~~~~

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:33 - ID#330175)
Is Another(pile of bull-merde)
Puetz in disguise

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:39 - ID#412172)
Hi Tort, HI Donald, Hi Ted (welcome back to the USA?)
Hi Tort,
Good to see you back, I absolve you of your old slavery of a joke a day, if you give us an occasional cheering up. Just wanted to say HI to all, just haven't had time to post/much to say lately, except with so many throwing in the towel here it must be time for gold to get on the right side of 300.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:44 - ID#413109)
Movements to enjoy
ALL- Those of you that enjoy watching moves try
and watch while the markets go down and the XAU goes up
you deserve a break from dismal news, no?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:48 - ID#269409)
Illuminati.... and cashless society
Excerpt from Web article....Racist Conspiracy Theories and the Militias

Doc Marqui, a self-described former "school teacher and witch," lectured about the satanic "Illuminati" conspiracy, which he alleged
President Bill Clinton was part of, serving as the "anti-Christ." Marqui assured the audience that this theory is not racist; but the fact is
the Illuminati theory is the same one advocated by most members of the American militia movement, and it was utilized by the Nazis in
their effort to justify their campaign of genocide against the Jews of Europe ( Cohn 1966 ) . The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is an
anti-Semitic document ( based on the Illuminati conspiracy theory ) that purports to document plans for Jewish world domination and
which first appeared in Russia in 1903 in a newspaper edited by a "noted and militant anti-Semite" ( Cohn 1966, p. 65 ) . The book was
instituted as mandatory reading in German schools by the Nazis in 1933 ( Cohn 1966 ) . Marqui touted the overall validity of the
Protocols while replacing the word Jews with the word satanists. The Illuminati conspiracy holds, in part, that large Jewish banking
families have been orchestrating various political revolutions and machinations throughout Europe and America since the late eighteenth
century, with the ultimate aim of bringing about a satanic New World Order. Members of the militia movement have said they believe
that the United Nations has been infiltrated by these "demonic forces" and is poised for a violent overthrow of the American
government, after which American rights to own firearms will be removed and American citizens will be enslaved by the introduction
of a cashless society, as foretold in the Bible's book of Revelation ( see, e.g., Constantine 1995; Kelly 1995; Springmeier 1995; Stern
1996 ) . Marqui stated that the Illuminati is essentially a shadow government that has controlled the United States since its inception,
controls the Masonic order, and commits all manner of occult crime culminating in human sacrifices on eight days of each year. Much
of this paranoia was chronicled more than 30 years ago by Richard Hofstadter ( 1965 ) .

While the Illuminati conspiracy theory is widely endorsed by militia members, it is also embraced by reactionary groups such as: the
Lyndon LaRouche organization ( political analyst Chip Berlet [1994] stated that in the early 1970s, Lyndon LaRouche "took his
followers . . . and guided them into fascist politics" ) ; the John Birch Society ( which Berlet [1994] said believes "Insiders" have for years
controlled the U.S. and former Soviet Union governments ) ; and the Liberty Lobby. The Liberty Lobby, with its newspaper Spotlight,
was created by Willis Carto, who also founded the Institute for Historical Review, which asserts that the Holocaust was a hoax ( Berlet
1994 ) .

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:52 - ID#269409)
@ Illuminati ..point of article
Just to be clear, the reason I posted preceeding article was do detract from credibility of Pranoid conspiracy theories involving racially based thesis.

The Illuminati/Rothschild/Fifth Column/Tri-Lateral/One Worlder
trash we've seen posted on Kitco many times, falls into that category.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:52 - ID#411233)
TVX----UP .29

(Fri Mar 13 1998 10:55 - ID#298259)
@Ted and mozel
With respect to mozel's departure, I believe ignorance and indifference are the culprit. Hopefully his departure will only be short-term. We need people like him to guide us on the path of truth even if only a few are inclined to expand their knowledge of that truth.

Don't stay away long mozel I would hate to lose a new found friend.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:00 - ID#298259)
heard on Bloomberg news that insiders sold $1.7B worth of MSFT stock. Hmmmmmmm....

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:04 - ID#344308)

are you saying things are as they appear? there are no hidden agendas,
or manuvering from powerful groups to foster their ideological ideals?

what is the motive of the international bankers concerning the destruction of gold relative to paper and plastic?

what is the motive of the federal reserve? who formed the federal reserve? who controls the federal reserve? who are the rosthchilds?
their place in history?

what do the powerful desire? total control of the machine!
let's do a lotto lunch....lgb.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:06 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Cherokee -- Never mind LGB. He's so scared that he's in denial.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:08 - ID#330175)
Robear....................and them Hershey Bears---& Frustrated
Not back in USA yet bro ( 53 days ) ----Frustrated: I am frustraTED that MOZEL has left & someone will 'pay' for this~~~~~

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:10 - ID#344308)

read the history of the string-pullers

the rosthchild history......from haggis.

believe what you will, and remember....there are ships so big
as to be un-recognizable for what they really are.....the garbage
scows of humanity are flotsam and jetsam, to be left in their prop

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:19 - ID#339265)
@REALISTIC RE: your 09:34...WHAT A HOOT!
Realistic..."talks amongst inner circle of central banks to sell gold at 305-310." Can you provide your sources please? Karlito maybe? Andy Smith?

Realistic...why don't you acknowledge the patent absurdity of this statement? The inner circle of central banks is comprised of the U.S., Germany, Russia, Japan, Switzerland, and France at this point in time.
There is no evidence of any sales occurring from these central banks whatsoever. In fact, recent revelations in European newspapers confirm the likelihood that Germany is acquiring reserves with Switzerland acting as its proxy.

Furthermore, based on the many posts I've read, although you purport to be a "pragmatic" gold bull, you consistently present posts that suggest that gold's upside is essentially non-existent.

For the benefit of forum members, why don't you acknowledge that you are an inveterate shorter of gold and cut the crap?

Oh...and Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:20 - ID#330175)
'Keeper of the flame' is confused ( duh ) by yer last post ( ? )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:20 - ID#255217)
Say it ain't so...
Has Mozel REALLY left? I liked his posts a great deal. Sad if true. Who or WHAT could have motivated him?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:22 - ID#257148)
With you on 10:55. Mozel is a trail-blazer. We need people like him to light the highways and byways of this murky land. Especially here in Aukland, where we have trouble with our 'tricity.

Got answers for you. Will compose my thoughts & get back. Sun has not yet risen on this land. As usual, aurator, up before sparrow fart.

G'day buddy. Your sunrise sounded spectacular.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:22 - ID#330175)
Argent------------I think(or try that ANOTHER is responsible for MOZEL'S--
disappearance~~~~let's kill em!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:25 - ID#258427)
FARFEL...I would KILL to know what
"The Inner Circle" of the Central Banks are planning!!

Wonder how one would know??

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:27 - ID#269409)
@ CHerokee
No, I'm not saying the power brokers of the world do not have an agenda, nor am I saying that behind close doors wheeling and dealing doesn't occur.

What I'm saying, is that when we look at the wrath and dissension that ocurred yesterday ( and in the past few days ) on the forum, much of which was race related, we'd do well to keep in mind that bogus discredited theories based on Protocols of Zion and the Illuminatti etc et al, should be viewed with an extremely skeptical light.

To paraphrase what others aid yesterday, it's easy to blame mysterious "others" for the frustrations in our lives, instead of looking within. Personally, I don't believe that the Masonic lodge, the Illuminatti, the Rothschilds, the Rockafellers, etc etc. have one hundredth the influence on today's marketplace than so many other important ( and disconnected ) forces, not the least of which are CB's, the AG, Bill Gates and hundreds of other CEO's, Congress, Middle East oil consortiums, etc etc etc

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:31 - ID#210235)
You're still in the dark since Feb. 20? I thought it was just a cable problem. What's going on? How are people coping?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:33 - ID#194311)
The same banks IMF will bail out in Korea right?!!!our screwed up world
Foreign banks in South Korea post 197 pct increase in net profit

SEOUL, March 13 ( AFP ) - Foreign banks operating in South Korea
posted a whopping 197.2 percent increase in net profit last year
amid the country's foreign exchange crisis, the central Bank of
Korea ( BoK ) said Friday.
The 39 foreign banks reaped a combined total net profit of
930.48 billion won ( 596 million dollars ) last year after they
successfuly hedged against the won, which sharply depreciated during
the crisis, the BoK said.
The 39 banks exclude 13 Japanese banks and an Indian bank.
US banks topped the list, with Citibank chalking up 289.8
billion won, followed by Bank of America with 99.2 billion dollars,
BTC with 84.9 billion won and Chase Manhattan with 73.6 billion
The increase in net profit of the 39 banks was a result of the
won's depreciation. They made an unrealized profit of 985 billion
won by purchasing futures to hedge against the falling won.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:33 - ID#201131)
It looks like TVX got religion and took their losses on their naked silver options and got out. THey should fire whoever is responsible for this debacle. They are currently hedged in a prudent manner but who the hell knows what they will do next. Gambling with shareholders money and losing is not a prescription for healthy shareholder relations.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:37 - ID#238295)
the action
Gold complex acting better today. Time for Realistic ansd his short selling friends to sweat little. Wouldn't suprise me if Realistic is Andy Smith in drag. Or perhaps EB.

BTW, Arch Crawford saying the Dow will peak TODAY, according to the USA Gold site. I doubt it, but who really knows.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:39 - ID#257148)
I exaggerate only a little. The CBD in Auckland still does not have full power. It was not just a cable problem. It was a breakdown in the infrastructure that had no tolerance for breakdown. 4 out of 5 cables into the area fritzed one after another, leaving less that 10% power. Businesses have moved out. Retailers closed down. But the area affected is quite small, though it houses much of the commercial heart of the city.

Nick@C has been sending me candles.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:40 - ID#339265)
@INTERESTING 10:04 TVX...Yes, I can read...
Interesting, it's very nice to learn that TVX "reallocated" 30 million to a new hedge position rather than concretizing the extraordinary gain. I presume you must be friendly with their accountants in that you are absolutely certain that said reallocation took place. Can you indicate exactly where this allocation exists on their financial statements? I see no evidence of any reallocation.

However, here's the problem...the company most recently informed the public at large that there would be a $70 million dollar hedge gain...instead it came in at $40 million.

If I were a TVX shareholder, I would be infuriated. As a shareholder, I want earnings and ultimately at some point, I want a dividend. If a company tells me two weeks ago that they are going to realize 70 million gain, then I do not want to see any surprises...where the hell is the 70 million gain?

You claim it is a reallocation...oh, so TVX managament is back in there playing the derivatives game again! How comforting! They already proved they didn't have a clue what was transpiring in the silver market when they shorted silver just previous to Buffett's silver purchase announcement. Now, shareholders are supposed to take comfort in knowing that they have taken almost half of a "purported" extraordinary gain in order to do...God knows what? Maybe short the platinum market or short cotton futures this time?

In the end analysis, if you think TVX is a great buy, then God bless you.
I think the company has promise in terms of assets and that is completely negated by a management that seems notably incompetent if not outright deceptive ( studied gold management at the ROYAL OAK SCHOOL OF GOLD MINING ) .

P.S. THus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

The Hermit
(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:42 - ID#372248)
@ mozel - your post of 22:46
mozel, having just read your Thu Mar 12 1998 22:46 post, I wish to add my voice to those who express dismay at your departure. Hopefully you do not intend it to be permanent. I have learned a great deal from your posts and have enjoyed the discussions you have had with tolerant1.

You have added much to the atmosphere and knowledge base here at Kitco. Please don't go!


The Hermit

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:42 - ID#257148)
It would suprise me if realistic was .  has been away from his poota.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:42 - ID#251268)
Flat line--~~~--
I really thought there would be some movement last night
in the POG ~~~~~~not much well lets watch the close today
and see if any shorts want to bail for the weekend.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:43 - ID#344308)


see what happens when you post ANYTHING other than
comex get squished like a bug.....splat.

'inner circle'-------right.


the baiting of kitco by 'jewboy' was the cause of yesterdays conflagration.....he brought the can of worms, and threw them
on everyone here.....he deserves censure at the least...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:44 - ID#344308)


eb is not realistic.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:47 - ID#328159)
Inner Circle of Banks
Just suppose you were an investor who happened to own ( or own a large stake in ) a bank. Would that give you the opportunity to find out information about CB gold trades, who is buying and selling, whether the BIS has a view on the gold price, insider gossip... Something upon which to think long and hard?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:51 - ID#410194)
@farfel (and maybe BillD)
What I report in the morning concerning Gold and Silver are overnight news that we are getting from serious and objective researchers, one North-American and the other one from Japan. They are private and I don't have to reveal them just because I take upon myself to share the stuff with Kitcoites. Right? They are not my opinions but of course sometimes I agree or disagree with it just like it's your right to like what you read or not.

As for me shorting Gold? Aaahhhh, each time we report something negative about the bullion we are categorized. Even if I'd short Gold, what would be wrong with that?

I already shared my opinion about Gold and I am among the few who thinks that it will not do too much for the next 10-15 years. Although I have difficulties shorting Gold at these levels, I try to keep an open mind because back when it was at 350 it was also looking like it wouldn't go any lower for all kinds of good reasons! So no, I'm not a Gold short because I'm not acting like one but I'd rather make some good profits on the next several little rallies that I think will occur continuously.

Can't we be neither Bull nor Bear in Gold? Actually I'm just a bit slightly Bullish, you know the Bull type who doesn't want to spend too much time and energy on the expectations of humongous and spectacular upside moves because I think it is very unlikely for a very long time to come.

I do repect those who think otherwise and as usual, the market will show us who is right!

Until then, everybody here is entitled to share news and opinions so that personal decisions can be made for maximum investment benefits.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:53 - ID#269409)
@ Cherokee...
I agree that Retired Soldier/Jewboy weas totally outto line yesterday and caused the race baiting stuff, however, this doesn't directly bear on the relevance of the racial overtones ( not to mention lack of evidence or logic ) of those who indulge in the Illuminatti/fill in the blanks...stuff.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:55 - ID#57232)
Japan rally -- only to April 1?
mozel: I hope you reconsider - perhaps you just need a few days to unwind. I personally don't have a clue why you left -- we will miss you!

Donald: I forgot about the fact that Japan's fiscal year ends April 1, and the bullish activity in the Nikkei may be related to this. I'm beginning to think that the Japanese have learned too much about media manipulation from us to trust the official news that they release. For example, today I heard on the news that the Postal Savings would not be used to support the stock market, as 'it was going up nicely on its own'.

Someone posted that the 'Mom and Pop' operations in Japan support the big corporations -- I have heard the same. If these small 'middle class' type operations are getting the squeeze by the big banks and corporations, then I think there is trouble ahead. And, if banking and corporate reform is not complete, that will be trouble as well. The only thing that I can understand coming from Japan is whether Pres. Hashimoto stays in office. If he is forced to step down in disgrace for trying to reform the bureaucratic dragon, then I think Japan will head south. Otherwise, maybe not.

There is one piece of news that may be good news coming out of this -- eventually. Japanese corporations that have factories in the SEAsian countries that have experienced deflation will be minimially affected by the high cost of the Japanese yen. But -- it may take several years for many of these factories to get up to speed again. So a critical period lies ahead for Japan, regardless of where their factories are.

What we really need is insider information like what Jin gives us, but we are not that fortunate, are we? I know BART would also like our site to be more international -- ideas? Sam has a point that it will be hard without speaking Japanese on the web site -- but I say not impossible.

I have one friend who speaks fluent Japanese who will be returning from SEAsia in a few weeks -- will quiz him when he returns.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:56 - ID#251268)
white House intern
to talk of sexual harrasment in the oval office on 60 min.get ready
for the well oiled save Bill's ass liars to flood the air
waves with their pathetic attempts to blame everyone,now
60 min. is going to be part of the great right wing.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 11:57 - ID#255284)
peace pipe @ last --- BART----
we agree on that, at least.......

This copyright thingie. Strongly suggest you ask your deft programmer to change the Copyright radio button default to "Noone" ( sic )
This is not legal advice, however, if you or any poster claims copyright for a work that is in fact copyrighted by ANYOTHER, that kitco post sounds like a prima facie breach of ANYOTHER's copyright. It opens a can o' worms, ( where worms=lawyers ) and you're better off fishing with flies.

I will not accept a month's free subscription for not giving any legal advice..

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:01 - ID#251268)
Realalistic 11.51
good post !

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:05 - ID#258427)
Realistic....keep 'em coming...
I appreciate your posts...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:05 - ID#33650)
Gold investment veeeeerrrrryyy looooongterm
After having been able to read and participate, get tips and advice my position is a happy one:
1. If gold rises quickkly it's fine for my portfolio which is all gold stocks + bullion
2. If Gold goes down its bad short term but even better longterm
and I will add to my gold holdings every year with my earnings from advising the High tech industry as long as the market frenzy goes.
3. If Gold does not move I will have even longer years to add to my real assets and can repay all debt. So that's fantastic, too.
In essence as LEIBNIZ said, I am living in the best of all possible worlds.
Cheer up Kitcoites !

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:06 - ID#339265)
...there is absolutely nothing wrong with shorting gold. I have no quarrel with anybody who chooses to do so...although I think they will soon have their asses handed to them.

The problem I have is shorters have invented the Central Bank Monster Tale...and whenever gold begins to gather steam, they trot out the Central Bank Monster Tale in order to scare the hell out of gold investors.

Now, obviously, the Central Bank Monster exists...we have seen evidence of its activities in the past. However, now we have reached a point where, effectively, there is no longer any real evidence that the Central
Bank Monster is active any longer...seems to have gone into hibernation..maybe he even died.

Yet, all the gold shorters need to do is "remind" gold investors of the existence of the Monster...and they all go running to hide in the bushes.

In other words, I object to scare-mongering tactics which have no basis of fact. Now, if you wish to present concrete evidence of the imminent gold sales by the inner circle of central banks, then I will be very interested to learn all the esoteric details. However, until that time, I consider your "warnings" to be patent BULLSH_T! I, for one, have grown up and no longer fear the Great Central Bank Monster! He can huff and puff but he will not blow my house down!

And...Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:10 - ID#257136)
To all re: Mozel!
I, as much as any one reading the posts, enjoyed his/her style as well as the deeply researched info brought to us.
I find it peculiar that as soon as ol' Soldier queried him about his real-life, real-time experiences, he/shebegan to shut down, much as the nhuman body shuts down when it experiences trauma.
Shock symptoms set in and begin the process of stopping blood loss and doing what all is needed to save the corpus.
The first time in a real tight, like combat, one experiences similar feelings and shutdowns. Somre more so than others.
Doing the things he /she sees as needing to be done, will take determined people who are willing to give their all!! Period!!

We can talk all day, but still until we have experienced the phenomenon
of bearding the Lion in its den or hunting game which is as well armed as we, we really DON"T KNOW!!
Don't blame any feedback given to Mozel. Blame the fervor and comparative naivete of the poster ( poseur? )
I'll probably never know, nor do I care to know -the "Rest of The Story"!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:10 - ID#222231)
MoReGold, Eldorado, LGB
I started shorting the market since it hit about 4000 ( DJ30 ) , and have been amazed at what has occurred since. ( about 1994 ) . After several pretty bad losses I finally woke up. There is nothing we can do against a rigged market for either equities or gold. Nobody knows how long it will last ( except maybe the SHADOW ) . I've observed the markets since the end of the second great one ( WW11 ) , and it's still going, albeit with a few corrections on the way.

Petrol dollars are propping up this market. These petrol dollars are as good as gold. I do not see how the price of gold is going to change substantially until the conservative oil producers get thier fill of physical gold. This maybe many years away before they get what they want. IMHO, I don'nt think gold will rise until they want to raise the value of thier gold. At least not until they acculate a sufficient quantity. In the meantime, what better way is there for them to amass great quantities than under the present relationship they have with CB's and mines. This action has to be done slowly in order not to disrupt the gold market. If most want to take on a 2000# gorilla, what can I say.

LGB, I agree with your synopsis re: the Illuminati as far as placing blame. For anyone to say that because the Rothschilds being of Jewish descent, and thereby saying all Jews are of the same mold is idiotic. Anymore than to say all Italians are mafiosa, or all Latinos, Poles, Blacks, Wasps, Germans, Orientels, and on and on can be generalized as being inferior or worst. I know of what I would call clubs or good ol boys groups or whatever you want to call them that do conspire to help thier own. They have lied, cheated and stolen from many good persons and continue to do so to this day. To say they do not exist is claptrap and naive to the nth degree.IMHO.


(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:11 - ID#57232)
Bank profits from SEAsia crisis!
kiwi: Interesting post! Looks like the Hedge funds were not the only ones that made profits. We should not forget that with derivatives ( most, I think ) there is a winner and a loser -- as long as the derivatives market is intact. The derivatives doubling time of 2 years or less is not the nesessarily the problem that will bring down the world markets, it is the turmoil secondary to the shift in wealth from the losers to the winners.

A derivatives market meltdown could still happen -- my point is just that we could have big trouble even with intact derivatives markets,

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:19 - ID#347235)
@ Cherokee & Sharefins 0210
Cherokee , I changed my handle because it offended some for that I am sorry,I am burying the hatchet now. Sharefin your 0210 Who cares what Jimmy Carter says, he was the most ineffective president we ever had, you may remember when he was prez inflation was 20% HERE in the States, I was in Germany @ the time and the exchange rate for the dollar was in the cellar. Jimmy should be glad that now he is able to look at der schlickmeister and be assured that finally history wont have to call Jimmy our worst prez any longe. Only good thing about jimmys term was POG went thru the roof!!!!! I bought some @34 per oz when Nixon was in and sold for 500+ later only regret is I only bought 50 oz!!

John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:19 - ID#24135)
The south cant rise again without you
Mozel ..
Come back .. we need you .. would
stonewall have dumped his foot cavalry
in the valley ??
Please come back ...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:22 - ID#222231)
Remember what you said to me, "your on a roll", well, so are you. I know deep in my heart that you will not stay away. This forum is like good piece of $%% and very difficult to stay away from. Even if I said that I would not post anymore, I and many others will welcome you back. ( even if I can'nt understand you 90% of the time. This is due to my stupidity and nothing else. )

You've sounded as if you were in the dumps, remember, "THIS TOO SHALL PASS".

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:24 - ID#286279)
aurator, cobber
I didn't realize you were so shook up.

PH in LA
(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:28 - ID#225408)
Inetceterated?...nay, better incineratable
Pete: Glad to see you are still here despite rumors to the contrary.

Your repost seems to be generating the same lack of comment today in part due to its having the misfortune of appearing just before the next Kitco segment. Nevertheless, it deals with the same subject matter as ANOTHER's posts, which have been commented on by those who have managed to digest them.

Unfortunately, many here remain unconvinced and have hung their hats of incomprehension on HIS latest call of $320 - $360 within 5 - 10 days. Most of these incomprehending first reacted with guffaws and are now counting the seconds with exacting precision, poised to celebrate ANOTHER's demise thinking that this will somehow enhance their own pointless track records.

I, for one, am not interested in track records and keep no track records of the track records. I am far more interested in the internal logic exhibited by ANOTHER's posts. It can not be denied that they DO have a high degree of consistency. As for the bean counters with their stop watches, I recall that when ANOTHER claimed that $280 represented the low that would be allowed by the BIS because it represented the cost of production someone immediately pounced on him to explain how the spot price of $178.xx was being tolerated. A's response was that the persons about whom he spoke thought and reacted in long terms, as investors not traders. A few cents one way or the other were not significant. Holding ANOTHER to the second on his $320/10day call is for the trader mentalities among us, too. It does nothing to refute or illuminate the internal logic of ANOTHER's story. In spite of the skeptics who threw their $178/oz number in the face of ANOTHER when he said $280, the bottom of $280 has been given credence by the market action since then. Let's see what W Buffett says on Saturday. Has he taken a position in gold too? Ishe the "large buyer" in A's prediction? "Time will tell all things."

In any case, and if I am not mistaken, F* ( the unpronounceable ) who now reveals that his backround is in macro-economics, has endorsed, at least in broad terms, the outline of A the incomprehendable's ( for some ) points.

( thus speaketh PHinLA, the incomprehending, invisible, intolerable, insubstantial, insufferable, inexact, intense, interdisciplinary, interplanetary, intransitive, introspective, inventive, innocuous, insolent, insolvent, insignificant, inveterate, invigorated, introverted...inetceterated )

PS. Vronsky, thanks for pointing us to the clues @ golden eagle about ANOTHER's identity. Unfortunately, I didn't unravel the mystery but am now. able to add another. Who is Red Baron?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:31 - ID#286279)
You devoted a lot of time and expended a lot of physical and psyhic energy here. Really, I don't know how you managed to keep up that pace. Don't blame you for wanting to take a break. I hope you come back.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:34 - ID#330175)
KITCO is GREAT!!----Just got a phone call from my GOOD friend----------
AURATOR....who is on the other side of the earth....I forgive ya mate fer wakin me up last night ( 2 AM ) ---just rolled over and put a pillow over the phone.....Got the headphones tightly strapped on and couldn't wait that hour or so ta do 'my thing'...and am feelin better by the second ( with 'Sweet baby James' singin his mellow-musac...'Everything is fine in the end'-----'look at the things that pass me by'---and a 'FRIEND named sunny skies'---was great talkin to ya mate & only wish you were 'here'...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:34 - ID#255284)
Best of all possible worlds
was that Liebnitz or Dr Pangloss from Candide?
An optimist says we live in the best of all possible worlds.
A pessimist fears that we do.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:36 - ID#330175)
A small
and now we double-post....puff...puff..puff...the 'Magic dragon'

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:37 - ID#300202)
I never contribute to this forum-however u sir are a teacher amongst
teachers. In the mos. I have been a student of the great minds of this
site-I have never missed one of your posts as I am sure many here wud
add likewise. You will surely be missed should u remain firm in ur decision. Come on back. Like Teddo-you are "outstanding in your field".
Couldn't resist Ted. Mozel-you know how to grab attention with ur natural

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:38 - ID#330175)
'On a country road'

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:39 - ID#344308)


regardless self-aggrandizement......

your posts are superb....your message MUST be heard. yours
is one that mine cannot be. re-charge away from kitco......then
return with re-newed vigor......your place as reciter of the message
is the highest of the high...and no one does it better!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:40 - ID#330175)
CAPER..........................a few short miles away
G'Day mate......and what is my field??

Aragorn III
(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:44 - ID#212323)
Face values?
Somebody with knowledge please indicate why many government mints feel compelled to put seemingly meaningless face values on their gold bullion coins ( $50 US and Canada, $100 Australia, 2000 Schillings Austria, etc ) .

The coins that avoid this confusion are Krugerrands and Sovereigns, although Sov's are unique in that they don't even indicate the quantity of gold contained therein.

Is it some sort of legal necessity to allow the mints to produce gold coins? It is hard to convince John Q. Public that an American Eagle 1oz. coin is worth more than the $50 face value. This is not so much a problem with a Krugerrand... Also, could not the Feds engineer a future redemtion with compensation by legal tender fiat paper at the face value of the coin? If they recalled Quarters, payment would be two dimes and a nickel--see my point? But, ignore this bit of rambling. What is the REAL reason for the nonsensical face values?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:44 - ID#233199)
Well Ted,

Since you are on Kitco I assume it's a Field of Dreams....

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:45 - ID#300202)
I was thinking years ago when Eugene Whalen was Minister of Agriculture
& the press ( Windsor Star ) hated him-& of course he was a farmer. The Star did an article with a pic showing him in his cornfield-Headlines: Eugene
Whalen-A Man Outstanding In His Field

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:46 - ID#246224)
Quiet Market !*!*! and more LBMA bs from moi
Why? The players who were driving the market down are not touching it now. The longs have spoken at 280 and put a support line at 290. If you think about it the silence is deafening these past few days. There have been a few attempts to push it up or down and they have been met either way at 300 and 290 respectively. So now we have light trading at 295 +/- 2 range. Now everyone is on the sidelines WAITING.

My quess would be that CB's are not offering much for lease and there are not that many interested in leasing as there were.

The probability is that, given past performance in the charts, we will see an upside move for the next few years; the formation of a V shaped bottom. The return trip is usually sharper in its ascent than the down side was in its descent. If we revert to the mean of the past 15 years we are looking at a return to 375 to 400 range in that time. I can live with that.

My LBMA posts of a few days ago were an attempt to consider the SIZE of the paper trading in London as compared to actual physical Gold or CB 'sales'. I think the stories like "CB's are selling their gold and that's why the price is falling" and "gold is not longer a store of value so investors don't buy it any more" is absolute BS, pure and simple. There are a few 'news' operations used to obfuscate the real dynamics of this market by those who are the market makers. I'm sure mine forward sales have had some impact, but it is over rated as well.

Who ever makes this market it is not us. It is also not the mines or the CB's. US$11 Billion in gold is traded in London every trading day; almost one half the annual physical gold sales are traded repeatedly, continuously, persistantly, endlessly. If this were a pure commodities market then we would not see anywhere near this lopsided a market.

The grossest evidence, which is public and NOW freely published, strongly suggests that this is a market with a completely different rationale for its existance than a commodities exchange. So its dynamics are different and the players are also different. The fact that the news is spun out to contradict the obvious and to construct a fantasy image is pretty obvious because it doesn't fit the facts.

Until we know who the players are and why they are playing we will never really understand this 'gold pricing market'. My contention is that this market is the interface between gold as a currency and paper currencies. If that is anywhere close to being accurate than we must ask what is the reason for moving weaking gold verses paper over the past few years. Who would this benifit? ( Answer: those who wish to buy gold ( or gold mines ) . )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:49 - ID#289357)
Aragorn III @ face values
I don't know the answer to your question - but ( so far ) just the idea of face-value redemption has kept me away from the U.S. $50 eagle. It does seem to be a little ridiculous, doesn't it?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:49 - ID#222231)
PH in LA
You sir are a very astute person. This whole story by ANOTHER of oil for gold makes so much sense and confirms ( IMHO ) the events that are taking place in our world markets. One has to read ANOTHERS posts several times over to comprehend his THOUGHTS. If gold does or does not reach his range in the next few weeks is of no consequence when it comes to his logic and reasoning. I believe gold can trade up to $400/oz range, but no more, at least in the short term or until they have accumulated thier fill. ( or have they already? ) ( that's the $64 question. )

I have seen no unusual movements in either gold or silver since WB's announcement. I would think that if he were contemplating adding to his positions, why let the cat out of the bag until he has positioned himself. This is why I do not think anything unusual will happen tomorrow. ( IMHO ) .

P.S. Methinks Vronsky knows more than he's letting on about ANOTHER!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:50 - ID#255284)
Double post too!

Steve - Perth
(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:51 - ID#284170)
just checking to see if I am still here.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:53 - ID#252150)
How convenient that the SEAsia crisis takes the heat off A.G. & extends the Goldilocks mkt.
A conspiracy nut could probably make a case that there was a well planned attack on those currencies, with Soros acting as the attack dog.
But anyone would have to be either paranoid or have lost a lot in this AU bear mkt to believe him. I have'nt really lost in the AU bear & I don't think I'm paranoid. Actually, I did lose most of my gains from 96 & who knows...maybe I'm a little paranoid, or maybe I just need better medication.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:53 - ID#372262)
ONLY $23.00 TO GO!


Steve - Perth
(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:54 - ID#284170)
A very near miss
BIS speaks out on global financial danger

(Fri Mar 13 1998 12:55 - ID#31868)
maybe, mozel, that lantern of the minds eye is superstitious.
Beware the Ides of March...

MARKET UPDATE ( 3/13/98 ) AM---- Friday the thirteenth. A full moon. The lunar eclipse. And as Arch Crawford, the former Merrill Lynch techie who dwells on such things, says, "closely conjunct the malevolent star Markab and at the 75 degree half-aspect to PLUTO....Near maximum shakeout potential." The astrologically based Bradley Model, according to Arch, shows today as the "top" to the DOW to be followed by an "extreme spike" DOWN! ( To subscribe to Crawford Perspectives -- 212-744-6973. ) Why do so many feel we are at a cross-roads? Is it in the stars? or in the Dow Jones? or the latest LBMA numbers? or the fate of one William Jefferson Clinton? ( The cartoon in this morning's paper shows Clinton and First Dog at the Vet. Hillary Peron walks in and says "Neuter it!" First Dog and First Politician look wide-eyed and afright. ) Markab rules all! And who knows what fate awaits us. Avalon? Camelot? As we open the day, the dollar is down against the yen and up against the mark and swissie. Stocks are up almost 36 -- maybe Arch is right. Today is also the day gold, silver and platinum options expire. So far gold is up marginally; silver's down; and platinum is up solidly. We shall see what this thirteenth of March brings and update if anything significant happens. Beware, fellow goldmeisters, following this most caution filled of days -- THE IDES OF MARCH on Sunday! And then the markets open again on Monday. Not even the NCAA's can take the edge off these ominous rumblings. So says the sorcerer. So say the stars.


(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:01 - ID#330175)
CAPER-----you got MOI pegged as I am a farmer-----SWPI-----------
'A field of dreams' that will soon grow ta the sky~~~~'a horse & his cattle are his only companion'----Aurator-Is this the psychic 'hotline' somethin...?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:03 - ID#269409)
Pete, PH, et al....ANOTHER
Grooooan...all this ANOTHER stuff again. "Those who grasp" etc. It's been quite common knowledge, for two decades or more, that the Middle east oil producers, do not consider themselves prime candidates for full industrialization in today's manufacturing/information based world economy. Thus they felt that there best shot at future suceess, was to trade their one great resource, for OTHER valuable resources...including Gold...that would be in their posession once the oil ran out.

This is some great new revelation by ANOTHER? Puhleaase! Everyone knows Gold is funneled to the middle East in exchange for oil, everyone HAS known this for decades. Beyond this well established fact, the rest of the ANOTHER just interesting speculation on his part.

I find it SO odd when someone says ( paraphrase ) "I don't care what their track record is....I just desperately want to BELIEVE!!!"

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:06 - ID#255284)
Reckon you're right, OTOH, it may just be the influence of Markab the malevolent star. Or Thomas the Tank Engine.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:09 - ID#410198)
Aragon & co Face value always makes me laugh when folks use face value to prove a point
Fact the US treasury still values it's gold reserves at $42.00 an oz.Governments issue bullion in legal tender so as to appeal to collectors and to offer the public assurance against counterfiet this is about the only product that governments produce and make a profit,the KrugerRAND is legal tender the Rand is unit of currency in South Africa

PH in LA
(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:10 - ID#225408)
Of gold and chickens
It is amusing to read posts claiming that gold will stay in its trading range until either:
1. mania moderates and the stock market crashes
2. "they" do this or that, or
3. the dollar goes down.

Well, thanks for #3 at least. If gold goes up, won't that mean that the $ has come down? In other words, gold cannot go up until gold goes up. I think we can all agree on that!!! ( Overlooked axion: The price of gold IS the value of the dollar. )

BTW, which did come first, the chicken, or the egg? ( with apologies to the followers of chicken prices. )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:11 - ID#372262)

Clinton Resigns! King Fahd Dies! Boris Yeltsin has Stroke! TOKYO Rocked by MASSIVE QUAKE! N. KOREA INVADES S. KOREA! China DEVALUES YAUN AND DECOUPLES HK DOLLAR FROM US $! Japan sells massive amount of US TREASURIES to bail out failed banking system!

You really think it's safe to short gold in a world where headlines like these could dominate the front page at any moment!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:13 - ID#330175)
Them New Zealanders sure do talk funny~~~~~

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:16 - ID#410198)
Golden profit,paladium is up limit dealers ing,$10.00 back of spot using june as spot

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:17 - ID#253153)
To all Gold Shorts
Your days are numbered. You will pay dearly for being short in Gold when the Gold market turns and begin to rise ( wishfull thinking ) .

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:20 - ID#372262)
Martin Weiss Looking for $335 GOLD BUT $4.00 SILVER!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:20 - ID#410198)
let me try that again
Dealers are not selling if they are, huge spread ( burnt before ) they are buying $10.00 back of spot using June

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:20 - ID#255284)
Ahhh, wuz boooorrrn, under a wuuun drin staaaaarrrrrrrr
maybe, but then isn't Arch Crawford a 'mercan? look at this markab the malevolent star drivel

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:23 - ID#372262)


(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:24 - ID#372262)

Strad Master
(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:26 - ID#250297)
STUDIO R: Help! Your E-mail address has gone bad! What's up? Please e-mail me with updated info. ASAP. Thanks!

Aragorn III
(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:26 - ID#212323)
Your last paragraph is very near the mark in my perception of the creature..."Until we know who the players are and why they are playing we will never really understand this 'gold pricing market'. My contention is that this market is the interface between gold as a currency and paper currencies. If that is anywhere close to being accurate than we must ask what is the reason for moving weaking gold verses paper over the past few years. Who would this benifit?"

It is fairly standard practice for a company placing an order of great worth overseas for future production and delivery to places hedges against that country's currency floating to the detriment of the negotiated term. As you know, all currencies float in relation to gold, and the greatest potential volitility is in one currency in relation to another. Beacause these are difficult to predict and because an unexpected negative result often outweighs an unexpected positive ( through currency movements prior to settlement day ) , short-term stability is sought. If large companies ( let's call them governments, ok? ) had a registered gold account with a clearing house ( let's call it the LMBA ) , wouldn't it make sense to settle the terms of the deal in an agreed upon amount of gold? The paper being traded is similar to writing checks on the gold account. The gold is simply being used as money. This explains the volume without a resulting impact on prices.
The daily fluctuation in POG may be viewed as a nuisance, but the relative stability compared with the alternative makes the process worth the 'hassle'. The gold stays put but the ownership changes over and over again. Other market forces are responsible for the falling POG, and of course, the gold registered in the clearing house accounts may be sold outright for cash at times, or cash may be used to increase the size of the gold in account through direct purchase, or the gold may be moved if a party does not trust the clearing house with ever growing accounts acquired through trade ( from selling oil, perhaps? ) .

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:26 - ID#269409)
@ Golden Prophet
That should have been "Butt" Gold, buy Silver..... 500 million ounces or no, it's going up pal! It was $10 to $12 when there was a LOT more than that LOWER consumption rates, and no deficits...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:26 - ID#39971)
They'll Wonder Where The Yellow Went

When the Koreans find out they had to give up their treasures to satisfy

the " New York Groove ".

New saying in New York.........the *uck starts here.

Old may be the turning point.Yes?

Realistic.......hmmmmmmmmmm..will the circle be unbroken?

PH_In LA........Overlooked Indeed.Will post something for you soon. are a wealth of information.RE:Canada gold sales:

Look beyond the action for the reason.All roads lead

to Rome.Can't fight dragons with fire.This too will.....

LGB.............Would it not be prudent to give ANOTHER the oportunity

to demonstrate his sincerity before being debunked.I,for

one,am willing to offer him the same privilage afforded

all here.Still don't like his ( or your ) numbers.We'll see

TED.............Go gold.

Allen ( USA ) ......Zactly!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:27 - ID#249285)
gold cycle
I have not posted for a long time, but I wanted to share my cycle projection with the good people at Kitco. Gold should start a multi month advance, with the usual dips, but trending higher starting in the timeframe of March 13/98 to March 20/98. This in in no way a sure thing, but an opinion.

PH in LA
(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:33 - ID#225408)
Oddities aboundin'

And what I find so odd are those who concentrate on track records in the 12 yard dash and miss the forest because they are looking so carefully at the trees. Scoffing says nothing about internal logic. That said, I do appreciate your comment that the oil producers recognized long ago that they have little to offer a technologically-oriented world and have chosen to concentrate on another type of wealth accumulation, instead. Doesn't this admission put you at least marginally ( if not with a foot, at least with a toehold ) into ANOTHER's camp?

As I recall, the last time the pendulum swung towards tangibles, the ME did very well, indeed ( these 18+ years ago ) . I have no doubt that they will again. Which leads me to take seriously the "footsteps of giants" approach. ( These guys do employ some VERY high-calibre money managers. ) The problem with that inevitable shift is that, although anyone can see it coming, it can be very difficult to time. ( I for one, have seen it comming for 15+ years. ) Only those with good timing have any chance at all. And a thorough grasp of the fundamentals is imperative even if we cannot be privy to the insiders' minds.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:33 - ID#372262)

"There is no shortage of silver! Expect a sharp decline in silver prices soon!

Reason #1--Mr. Buffett is not holding silver for a long-term play only a short term speculation.
Reason #2-Demand is dropping substantially in India the world's largest consumer of silver. Silver up 61% in Rupiah terms
Reason #3-Silver's price is out of whack with gold. Gold at 18-yr. lows While silver at 8-year high!.

Martin's advice? If you own silver--DUMP IT! "It's not worth the risk!" In the menatime, "FOCUS YOUR ENERGIES ON GOLD; ITS OUTLOOK--BOTH SHORT AND LONG TERM--IS FAR BETTER!" But ABX, PGU and BGO. Also GLG and AEM!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:38 - ID#372262)
LGB--@Let's Go Broke BUYIN SILVER!
The only thing that could save silver from $4.00 is a sharp move up in gold to $400+!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:43 - ID#410198)
Come now GoldenProfit, you rely on MW,same guy that publishers the gold$silver report......

Aragorn III
(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:45 - ID#212323)
Robnoel_A Bullion coin face value--trying harder to communicate
I don't see your point, and apparently you missed the gist of my question. I know the RAND is the monetary unit in South Africa, but even though I speak that country's language quite fluently I can't recall the last time I counted to One-thousand and encountered the number Kruger ( Paul Kruger, I believe ) . Your point seems to be that there are actually XXX number of Rands in a Krugerrand? If the $50 American Eagle were called simply the EagleDOLLAR we would have the same happy situation as the KrugerRAND. And best of all we could have the PhillySCHILLING!
My question, simply put, is that since the coin is sold at bullion value why don't the mints simply stamp the weight and gold content. Is it because their charters won't allow them to engage in non-monetary affairs, or are you trying to tell me that it is just a little ledger trickery to show a profit, selling $50 for POG? I know the reserves are undervalued on the books, but the USGov does not touch their own gold for the Eagle program--they buy it on the open market as needed to meet demand.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:48 - ID#269409)
@ PHinLA
To answer.... ( getting WAY back from the trees ) it's looking at the big picture that counts, so you and I agree on the concept, just not the execution. Sure I agree that Oil is being exchanged for Gold, but this doesn't have anything to do with agreeing with the "ANOTHER" pitch. It's been a well known fact for decades that this is part of the ME startegy of preserving their wealth.

As to this being a brilliant strategy, that remains to be seen. Presonally, I think that infromation age technology has become at least as valuable, if not more valuable, than Gold in the long term scheme of things. Thus the ME countries may have comitted themselves to semi permanent third world status by comitting to their old friend Gold, when they could have comitted to high tech. securities and other instruments that would have enriched them to a greater degree, both financially, and in economic diversity.

Those who can adapt in teh future, to the continuous quantum changes, will achieve the best success. Those who cling to the past, will drown. Unfortunately, a lot of GoldBugs have been "drowning" for a long time.

All that said. I still believe Gold does have a place in a portfolio for security, safety, and some level of "intrinsic" value. Also, it is my personal belief, that major changes will occur in the future, based on biblically prophetic predictions, which will bring on the Apocolypse ( which does not mean "End of the World" but "New Beginning" ) ...ahhh but that's a whole other subject.

Oil, ANOTHER, Bible prophecy, Conspiracy theories....see Bart...tough to get too far off topic when you're talking Gold!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:48 - ID#266110)
@JP RE:Your 00:15 post Please give us your insight
As per your posting, I would be interested to know your explanation of the hyperinflation process as it will affect the US. It will be beneficial for every US citizen who reads this site. You may be surprised just how much impact you have when you post.


(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:51 - ID#408147)
Don't quite accept the reasoning for a silver fall:

Reason #1--Mr. Buffett is not holding silver for a long-term play only a
short term speculation.
** WB is not known as a short-term thinker/player in these markets.

Reason #2-Demand is dropping substantially in India the world's largest
consumer of silver. Silver up 61% in Rupiah terms
** So demand is dropping because of the price. Why about the supply side of the equation? Demand alone does not influence price.

Reason #3-Silver's price is out of whack with gold. Gold at 18-yr. lows
While silver at 8-year high!.
** So can it not also be possible that this 'whackiness' is not due to gold being so low?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:54 - ID#372262)

US BANKS are way over exposed to financial derivatives especially JP MORGAN! Facing up to $500 million in losses due to legal challenge from Korea. Financial derivatives are about to bring down the world's largest banks. In fact they have already done so--it just hasn't been made public yet! But when it is--end of bull market, end of low interest rates, end of indiscriminate lending practices--end of US $ reserve status--end of cheap oil--end of cheap gold--beginning of global financial war!

PH in LA
(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:55 - ID#225408)
True believers
Allen and Aragorn:

Your analysis' resulting in the agnostic position that we really know very little about what really "sets" the price of gold is golden. That it is NOT a commodity price has become obvious for all to see. The comex cannot even be acknowledged as a "sideshow" ( to quote ANOTHER ) unless it is a clown show.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:55 - ID#252127)
Golden Prophet-------On silver

Newsletter writers are always given to making a powerful statements; if correct, it increases circulation, if wrong, the public soon forgets.
It is a win/win situation for the publisher, as the guru good callsare only ones featured.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:55 - ID#251268)
I am reminded of a man who operated in the office of a prophet
who always kept a stone in his pocket to remind himself of the
penalty for a false forcast~~~beware of calling yourselfs profets,
the penalty is a stone by stone pelting by the community until DEAD
~~~don't anyone get to offended just a little story?~~

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:57 - ID#257136)
Paranoia and posters-not necessarily synonymous!
I don't believe jews have any monopoly on either making money, banking or concpiracies!
To me, the "Crazy Conspiracies" are merely the manipulation of people and markets for the purpose of garnering wealth.No more and no less!
That they seem to be world wide in scope depends largely on one's viewpoint and education in such matters.
Not being knowledgeable in any of the above, I hereby propound some questions which I believe to be appropos to your post and to this forum.

!. Did the Illuminatti actually exist?

2. Does the Council on Foreign Relations actually exist? Are any of its members wealthy or involved in financial ventures with one another?

3. Are here really such critters as Tri-lateralists? Who and what are they and what do they do?
Can you and I become one? Are there any specific criteria for membership in such an elite group. ( providing it does exist! )

4. Are/is there really a banking house ( or family ) known as Rorhschild If so, are they extant ?
5. Can you come up with a better way to gain power and influence on a very ( world? ) wide basis than by doing the things alleged to
having been/being done by the the aforementioned groups, familiesa and individuals?
Sounds to me as if were I sufficiently intelligent and totally lacking in principle, that would be the way to go.
Since I am not so mentally swift or so amoral as to want to gain at the cost of so much hurt to others, guess I'll have to be content to read the maunderings of the Conspiracy nits and wish I were wealthy.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 13:59 - ID#289357)
Aragorn III @ bullion face values's just another gov't psychological tool, to tell potential bullion investors that their bullion coins are really worth less than the current selling price, in terms of greenbacks.

What do you think would be the effect, for example, if the $50 U.S. coins were instead marked at $500, or $5000 ?? I bet that you couldn't find one for sale anywhere at the current market price.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:00 - ID#339265)
@GOLDEN your erroneous analysis of SILVER market...
Each one of your theories invalidating silver's value is categorically wrong.

Here are some facts:

First, with all the gold mine closures in the past half year, there is far less ancillary silver production available. Although various gold companies have announced intentions to increase silver mining as a result of the WB purchase, unfortunately, the effect on the silver market should not be visible for at least another half year. I suggest you phone the fellows at Sunshine Mining in order to learn the lengthy time frame involved getting from silver mine development to silver in the market.

Second, for every middle class Asian frightened of currency turmoil and desiring to convert to hard assets, silver is a much more affordable
hard asset than gold. Solid evidence exists that, although Asians sold
gold during the most recent turmoil in order to increase liquidity, at the same time, they either maintained or augmented silver holdings.

Third, silver's upward divergence from the downward gold trend is owing to Point number Two.

Fourth, there is absolutely no reason to believe WB is simply trading silver on a short term basis. It does not correlate with his past actions or investment history.

...and for all the forementioned reasons, that is why you are NOT called, "THE SILVER PROPHET!"

Hey...Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:06 - ID#57232)
Gold preference: Stability of gold versus 'paper'
Aragorn III: I like your point, namely the use of gold as a hedege against currency fluctuations. I remember only about 2 weeks ago when the US dollar fluctuated 1% in one day! And -- don't forget the dollar instability contributing to the SEAsian crisis! I think this is the answer to the mystery of why the LBMA trades nearly 2000 tonnes of gold per day, despite the fact that there cannot be this much physical gold trading. Why not use gold as the intermediary while very short term transsactions of any kind are being made? If the vast majority of trades are one day or less -- possibly hours --- we could still have this huge gold trading volume, but with little distortion of the physical gold market. Perhaps this makes sense when the trades going on are very large in value, but very short term. This would explain the discrepancy between the LBMA data, and Frank Venerosos' comments that only 25% of the physical gold market price is actually altered by derivatives trades.

If you are correct, then this would explain why the LBMA trading volume ( still less than 5% of dollar trading volume ) is increasing.

Again -- I propose that the LBMA trading volume increases are not a sign of instability in the gold markets. They are a sign of instability in the paper markets, and we should periodically check the LBMA trading volume to see what the perception is of paper instability.

Again this is only my opinion, for whatever it is worth. But -- I think we are reaching the answer to the 'riddle of the LBMA'.

What begins the day on four legs, walks at noon, and ends the day on three legs? Wasn't that the riddle of the Sphinx? Aurator, where are you!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:06 - ID#238295)
gold, silver, and oil
Gold again holding up nicely as silver plunges.

One of my probelems with Another is that the ME oil regimes are total clients of the US. They will do what Washingtom says whether they get any gold or not. Unless complying with US wishes risks touching off a revolt at home as in the recent flap re: Iraq.

I N T H E U . S . A .

"It seems like a flashback to the
70's, but its 1998! In many places
across the country a gallon of
gasoline is cheaper than a bottle
of water!"
NBC NEWS "TODAY" ( 3/10/98 )



MER - Washington - 10 March:
For the West, the U.S. in the lead, the Middle East is about oil,
Israel, petrodollars, and arms sales -- though the order is sometimes
in doubt. The American economy artificially floats on a vast sea of
cheap energy, recycled petrodollars, and massive arms sales -- all
because of military and technological dominance of the Middle East.
In the USA gas at the pump is cheaper than water these days -- even
after transporting it half way around the world plus all the other
expenses involved in refining and distributing!
At every turn -- be it political, economic or cultural -- the Arabs
are outclassed, outfoxed, and much more often than naught outright
deceived and tricked. The petro regimes -- Saudi Arabia and Kuwait
in the lead -- are little more than American protectorates whose
regimes are manipulated to squander their resources and control their
populations at the dictate of the West. And the American-sponsored
"Peace Process" is little more than an ongoing plot to keep the region
under American/Israeli domination while forcing the Palestinians onto
the equivalent of modern-day Reservations and Bantustans.
Throughout the Middle East today there is tremendous poverty and
underdevelopement, unprecedented corruption and repression, a massive
gap between the few wealthy controlling families and the masses; and
seething resentment and depression.
Furthermore -- as but one sign of what has happened to the Arab
Middle East this century since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire
and the takeover of the West -- the little country of Israel has
military power more than seven times greater than all the Arab States
combined, and but for oil greater economic power as well.
Corruption, greed, mismanagement and co-optation -- these are all
words easily applicable to the Arab "client regimes" that are today
holding the entire Middle Eastern region in their feudal grip.
Rather than controlling and managing their resources for the
benefit of their own peoples; rather than developing their countries
with industrial and modern-day institutions; rather than building up
the Middle East region to be the equal of others in today's fast-
paced world, the Arab regimes force their people to languish in
powerlessness on behalf of those who keep them in power from afar.
It is as if the era of colonialism never really ended.

MID-EAST REALITIES is published a number of times weekly and the
MERTV Program shows weekly on Cable TV.
For past MER articles go to: http://WWW.MiddleEast.Org.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:07 - ID#31868)
a.j. sent you some mail and it bounced it back, same
address as usual?!? I will try another service I use and see if that is the problem.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:07 - ID#344308)

hot up.....grains down....paper vacillating.

don't you just hate it?

bought 2 dec98 350 gold calls....replaced the 2 that just passed away..

time for grain calls.....NEXT MONTH.

big trader was/is realistic.....immmf

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:11 - ID#206133)
Dear Kitcoites --
I've been following this discussion group since just around Friday, February 20 ( the day gold last tickled the belly of $300 ) . I was drawn here only *after* I made what may be the decision of my life -- I bought a bunch of Eagles ( at $292.50 spot ) ; I was drawn here by the hope of finding reassurance for that decision. What I've done is very scary to me, laying down more cash than I ever have for anything I've ever bought -- all based on what seems to me both inevitable and imminent: the end of this present financial era.

At the risk of sounding narcissistic, I post now only to apprise you: I am the Little Guy. And I'm here . . . finally.

Not unlike how one would follow sport teams and politics from the sideline, I've been following the POG and the Dow since the mid-70s ( along with coffee, but not pork bellies ) . However, I have never invested in anything in my life ( that is, other than capital investment in my own abilities through the small companies I have owned and operated ) . But the facts appear so obvious that one would have to be blind ( or blinded ) to ignore them. I'm talking about the basics ( which is all I'm qualified to talk about ) :

-- Five thousand years of history demonstrates gold as an inarguably valid store of value.

-- One hundred years of history demonstrates the stock market as kind of flaky.

-- Gold is cheap today.

-- The stock market is grossly overvalued today.

-- Many, many people are ignoring these basic facts.

I have always been a contrarian, and therefore just a hair ahead of the times ( which is really a misnomer, "ahead of the times" -- the writing is always on the wall; it's just that most don't glance that way 'til they've first dispatched what's in front of them ) . That this little guy jonesy has sprung for gold strikes me -- jumping schizophrenically into the shoes of an outside observer -- strikes me as bullish. And there's a lot of Little Guys out here just now finally setting aside their busy work and looking up.

The day-to-day divination I leave to you, gentlemen and ladies. For it I am both humbled and made grateful. Independent of anything I've read here at Kitco or anywhere else, however, I am as long on this yellow stuff as a cat still attached to its steamrollered tail.


(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:11 - ID#222231)
LGB All is not what it seems.
For those that do not grasp, whomever the shoe fits, facts speak for themselves. Gold was very volitile from 1980 to 1987, if you remember ( unless your 28 or younger ) . What makes you think there was this cozy relationship between the ME, CB's and gold producers prior to 1987. If you read between the lines and noticed that the price of gold that the oil producers wanted and needed was uncontrolable prior to this relationship that supposedly began in 1987.

Please explain to me how and why the price of gold has collapsed since then? Why has gold reacted contrary to all logic since 1987. Why has the price of oil been stable in what everyone calls an unstable world? ( I do'nt want short term fluctuations as an answer. )

When you can explain the above to me ( to my satisfaction, not a spin ) , then I will humbly bow to your reasoning! ( Hell, maybe I'll even kiss your %!! in public square ) . Please, I'm only joking and mean no offense.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:13 - ID#410194)
"60 minutes" program
The upcoming "60 minutes" program that will be aired on Sunday ( about yet another sexual story involving Clinton ) has been the big talk of the day so far in the New-York pits and some big traders are wondering how much of an impact this will have on people's psychology?

Will they again shrug it off as in the past? How much of these stories can they tolerate?

It will be interesting to see the content of this other potential scandal.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:15 - ID#372262)

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:17 - ID#339265)
@DEAR KITCOITES...Hi, Little Guy...'s nice to see such humility and nice to see you have chosen to put substantive sums in gold.

However, I dispute your statement that the little guy has arrived in the PM market to any degree. Yes, maybe a handful have trickled in here and there. However, the low volumes in the market indicate that most of the trading is professional in nature.

The little guys ( as you put it ) will not be in the PM market to any notable degree until the U.S. dollar trashes, thereby cracking both the stock and bond markets simultaneously.

Incidentally...Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:18 - ID#372262)
DJ--IMHO YOU HAVE DONE THE RIGHT THING AND NONE TO SOON! Glad you bought gold and not silver! By the time the year 2000 rolls around with all its attendant woes you'll be one happy goldmeister!!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:19 - ID#251166)
Who was that little guy @ 14:11?
handle: jonesy

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:25 - ID#213265)
@the scene
dj -- I guess you and the rest of us holders of the yellow stuff will just have to see how it plays out. At least you bought the physical stuff; No 'strings' attached. That's good! There is still a possibility of gold taking a minor dip. Shouldn't be no sweat. On the other hand, just maybe it won't take that dip. I like the saying 'better to be in a year early than a day late'. Of course, 'year' may be replaced with any other time period. Just bury the stuff and forget about it. One day you'll wake up to find the 'day' has come to dig it back up.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:27 - ID#339265)
@GOLDEN PROPHET re: 14:00...and your faulty SILVER analysis... other thing...the day the citizens of India sell silver with any degree of earnest fever will be the same day that they slaughter all their cattle. It's a cultural thing, you know.

P.S. Cattle are regarded as holy in India ( in case you don't know ) .

And that's why they call me...F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:27 - ID#410198)
Aragon,Ek sal praat de taal,yeah so can I,lets not go there
My point is gold is valued in weight not purity ie, Mapel Leafs 24 carat Us Eagles 22 carat same price $20.00 over spot,as far as I know the weight is on the KRand also USEagle and ML,don't get lost in conspiracy , like I said this is the only branch of gov. ( treasury ) that produces a product and sells for a profit,if you feel your going to take your gold,fine,then stand in line and give them your guns at the same time

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:30 - ID#222231)
Whoever wrote that article does not comprehend the mentality of the ME. The ME is not as materialistic as the Western World. Most in that area are happy with the old values and believe in security. Because they do not waste thier resources on military might and industrialization does not make them bad or stupid. As a matter of fact, it makes them probably more civilized than the west. They are far from being stupid and lackeys of the west. All in my humble opinion.

GO GOLD, ER, AND silver too!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:31 - ID#339265)
...after that, if I 've got time, I think I'll catch a hot porn flick with ANOTHER...

Until then, I remain your....

F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:32 - ID#269409)
Conspiracy Book review....ILLUMINATTI etc.
Concerning Illuminatti, Rothschild, One World Govt., etc.......

Link below to a review of an excellent book , best ( most readable ) Ive ever read on the subject, called Conspiracy...How the Paranoid Style Flourishes and Where it comes from by Daniel Pipes.

Though the reviewers a liberal, hes fair to the books author ( a Conservative ) . Intersting thing about author in context of the discussions here at Kitco, is that hes a Middle East expert. Also, does an excellent job of putting all the Illuminatti/Bildeberger/Rothschild/One World etc. conspiracy theories into the context of logic and reason ( not to mention historical fact ) .

Lots of other conspiracy stuff adressed here also, from Black choppers, on. A good basic treatise on the rational skeptic approach to conspiracy theory mentality.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:39 - ID#238295)
gold and silver
Golden Prophet: I agree that gold is a better buy than silver here, but $4.00 very unlikley.

BTW, what is Martin's track record? If memory serves Martin Weiss -- like Puetz -- has been expecting a crash for years.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:40 - ID#31868)
O'tay, could it not be that the large buy (er) that the
Another entity alluded to, be Warren Buffett, as the now "oh" so famous investor's companies report will be planted on the Internet this weekend for all the world to see.


(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:42 - ID#269409)
@ Pete
In embracing those excellent ME "Old values" that are so laudable, and that we in the West ought to emulate, I assume you're referring to;

* A continuous state of war for 3000 years, and up to this day
* Subjegation of women as basically nothing more than property status
* A zeal to kill and maim any who disagree with their religous point of view
* Mindless hatred of all things Western, whether suhc things be good bad, or indifferent
* Torture, maiming, or killing of prisoners without due process of law.
* Complete dearth of true democracy or freedom

Yep, that's the kind of society I want to live in all right...ahhh the good old days....

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:44 - ID#257136)
LGB: Just testing you a little. I thought you'd be able to answer the queries under your own
moniker. ( no pun untended! )
FWIW I feel the legitimate questions deserve legitimate treatment!

I feel that for one to be so certain of something ( as you seem to be of the kooky stuff ) one must be willing to put something of substance in one's response.
I am dissappointed in that you don't feel comfortable responding in your own inimitable words and style.
It may surprise you to learn that I never rely on hearsay. I wanna hear it from the horse's mouth, in this case, your original post, unencumbered by any exraneous B*** ***T.
Am I asking too much?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:47 - ID#238295)
Middle East
Pete: Nobody is arguing the Arabs are stupid. Just that many of them are ruled by despotic and corrupt governments whose primary allegiance is to the US and world financial markets rather than their own people.

The next time somebody says that oil is doing this because the Saudis are doing that, remember where the House of Saud gets its marching orders. The big problem with Iraq is not the crimes SH has committed, but that he refuses to bow to US diktat. If that ever changes, he will be "un demonized" by the press in the twinkling of an eye.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:48 - ID#252127)
In defense of the ILLUMINATI

At least I can't pin the Tulip Mania or the South Sea Bubble on them.
So how can any clear thinking person pin Dow 8500+, $300 gold and the strong US$ on them?
But then, I don't know jack shit.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:56 - ID#222231)
I never said we should adapt thier ways anymore than they would adapt ours. All I explained was the way they thought, which every individual has the right to do.

As for atrocities, I won'nt name all of the injustices committed in the west. I'll leave that to your thoughtful consideration.


(Fri Mar 13 1998 14:57 - ID#269409)
@ AJ
Come now AJ, you should realize that a subject as deep as the "Rothschilds started World War 2 et al nonsense, does indeed take an entire make that several VOLUMES of books to properly debunk....

You expect me to do it here on this forum? The answer to your questions is not "Did these entities exist" ...the answer is "If they existed, are they responsible for all major world events ascribed to them for the past 100 years.....or did they even have a major influence..."

The answer is no, a resounding no, an absolute no, a categorical no. A simple reading of basic history texts, is enough to trash that particular fringe whacko theory, put forth by the anti semites.

What next, are you going to ask me to prove the Holocaust really happened?

Sure some historical events had conspiracy behind them. I'll concede maybe even the JFK assasination did ( though I'm not completely convince...after all...the vaunted "magic bullet" is no big deal if you know anything about ballistics )

As always, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The Bildeberger/Rothschild/Illumiatti/Tri-Lateral conspiracy theorists provide all kinds of anti semitic revisionist whack job history and theory and conjecture...but little or no evidence to support their grandoise claims.....The burden of proof is on them, not on rational minds to disprove them... but they'll never prevail in proof because there are too many hundreds of serious, well documented historical works that would show their sheep shearing garbage for what it is....

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:00 - ID#257136)
Ol' B.J.'s terminal disiease--two lip mania. What's causin' the heating of the ,
water in the southern part of the western pacific. Heat risin' from the south sea bubble.
R U shur thuh ilumanotti ain't b'hine ut?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:01 - ID#288369)
@The Magnificent have mail, kind sir.....
Geeeze...The Intellectual Arrogance Factor continues to climb here...seemingly, on a daily basis...chartable, perhaps. Mozel, Is this the burr 'neath your saddle? It has become increasingly hazardous to opine....Why? Maybe, there's not enough room left here at Kitco for regular joes...Opinion cleansing is the new rule, I suppose....shameful.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:02 - ID#57232)
What happened to the dollar? Big drop?
All: I do not have access to hourly US dollar values, but do monitor Japanese yen, Deutsche mark, and Swiss Frank. All went up 0.5% or more today.

I pose a question to you -- is this a stable currency suitable for use as the world's currency? If you were a 'big trader' of some kind, would you be satisified with this if you were buying or selling $100 million or more of something? No -- of course not! What if you could use gold to stabilize your purchase price -- on the LBMA? Electronic gold trading for the very conservative superwealthy?

Perhaps by next year, LBMA trading dollar volume in gold will be 10% of dollar trading. Just a thought. Another way of looking at this is that the LMBA gold trading has been around for 200 years or more. What are they doing that is such an attractive market that their dollar volume of whatever it is is literally doubling every two years or so? Whatever it is, it is certainly popular!


(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:02 - ID#39971)
PH in LA And Gold Newbies
From Gold to Paper Money

Silver and gold have what is called use value. Silver is used as a backing for mirrors and in making photographic film. Gold is used primarily in jewelry. When silver and gold are used as money, they have exchange value, as well as use value. Silver and gold are called "hard money." This term does not only refer to their solidity as metals. It suggests that silver and gold are real money, in contrast to paper money. Gold and silver were assigned exchange value by people because of their scarcity and because they were potentially useful in other ways. Another term for hard money is specie, a Latin word that refers to the commodity nature of gold and silver.

Paper money is not hard money. There is no limit to the amount of paper that can be manufactured, as long as trees grow. Paper is not scarce, though it has many uses. Paper money is called fiat money. The word "fiat" is a Latin verb form that means "let it be." Nearly every country in the world uses paper money. Governments print currency and declare it to be money. Its use is mandated as both legal and necessary as the proper medium of exchange within a nation.

The use of gold and silver in exchange has generally been abandoned in favor of paper bills and coins made of cheaper metals. Gold and silver are now treated as commodities, on a level with soybeans and wheat. An ounce of gold is said to be worth, for example, 350 dollars. But if gold is hard money and paper is fiat money, this price quotation really says that one dollar is only worth 1/350 ounce of gold.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:02 - ID#222231)
I can'nt argue with you on that. SH was a puppet of the west prior to the gulf war and was used as a pawn.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:04 - ID#410198)
lets deal with a real Conspiracy it will answer all questions MULTILATERIAL AGREEMENT ON INVESTMENTS

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:04 - ID#26793)
Greeks dump dollars for drachma defense

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:08 - ID#26793)
Reports of 12% Greek devaluation this weekend

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:10 - ID#269409)
@ Old Gold....Track record??
How can you ask "BTW, what is Martin's track record?" Don't you know track records don't matter here? I was told so earlier today! After all, tis far more noble to lose $100,000 with an investment theory you like, than to make $1,000,000 with a theory you don't......

Track record, shmack long as the writer has a real novel interesting, unique theory, that fits my preconceived bias of what I want to hear, who cares about the facts man!!!! Or whether I get impoverished in the bargain! I can still sit back and count myself among the "Enlightened" few..........

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:11 - ID#36156)
Hey BART; your code is showing!
Press UPDATE MANUALLY and watch what happens to the top quotes frame.

Go GOLD!!!!!!! // HenryD

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:15 - ID#26793)
Fuji Securities denies Fed investigation. Fuji Bank earlier denied solvency problem

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:15 - ID#266110)
@THE GOLDEN PROPHET RE: Silver Overstock / WB and 130 Millin oz
What you're saying is new info for me. On the other side of the coin, I was thinking about some correlations related to WB purchases ( at least those made public ) .

We know:
1. WB has 130 Million ozs.
2. 130 Million = 20% of the current warehouse reserves worldwide.
3. The US has 260 million citizens.

This means that if all of WBs silver was bought by every US citizen, each person would only get 1/2 ounce and they would spend only US$3.00 to get it. Even welfare recipients have that kind of scratch.

If all US citizens tried to buy all available current reserves, then the demaand would be 5 times WB's purchase. That would account for a demand of only 2.5 ounces and a sum total of US$15.00. Once again, even a welfare type can come up with those kinds of bucks. Remember, this accounts to only US demand and doesn't factor foreign or industrial demand.

Maybe the most significant point to make is where DEMAND is. Given the current conditions, I agree with you. But if we have a meltdown of the Dow and the asset bubble bursts ( as it is destined to do ) , then we will see a very different scenario. That is why I am submitting the kind of spin that I am.

If DEMAND increases as one might expect, then the price of silver will take-off well above US$7. While the Hunt brother escapade created unbelievable highs, it is interesting to look at the psychology of the public. I was talking to a trader who told me that when silver hit US$40/oz, the phone was ringing off the hook and people were leveraging themselves to the moon ( or at least they were trying to ) . The trader said that they had to limit the amount of margin and people were screaming for more. They were willing to take the risk.

If you are any kind of a believer that History repeats itself, then you've got to believe in the possibility that a similar run in silver and corresponding mass-hysteria will ensue.

NOTE: We are seeing unprecendented times in the stock market and valuation of assets. As was said by BigDuke 6 in Apocalypse Now, "Someday this war's gonna end". Well the same is true about the Bull Market. Then I say...."Bring on the PMs, because weze gonna woop yo ass" ( meaning the stock market ) .

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:17 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Robnoel -- Could scarcely agree with you more on that. Perhaps LGB can answer how anything so insane could even be contemplated by those great 'protectors of freedom', and staunch supporters of the constitution in D.C., the illustrious Congress et all.

Bully Beef
(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:17 - ID#259261)
I never would have said what LGB said so strongly...but YEP.
You have to have reputable sources. There is all kinds of stuff that makes sense but it is made up. I read stuff on the net all the time that is far more interesting than the truth. Thats why they have fiction. This net is the most wonderful thing in the world if it's used right .But you need good sources. You have to check authors. There is alot of sites on gold that get scary because there are "some survivalists" who would tear up the constitution and replace it with the gold standard ( and gun standard ) . Not to say that getting out of the city and protecting your wealth and health isn't smart. Gold is protection of'll always be able to buy a loaf of bread, a pair of shoes ,and a good suit with it. ( or a Winchester )
And the truth is often boring comparded to fiction...out.

Charles Keeling
(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:18 - ID#344225)

"What are they doing that is such an
attractive market that their dollar volume
of whatever it is is literally doubling every
two years or so? Whatever it is, it is
certainly popular!"

Could it be that it is a NEW FORM OF MONEY
( Derivative/Gold Certificate ) That can be
redeemed in GOLD from the LBMA? The ARAB
STATES would love this kind of instrument!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:18 - ID#269409)
@ Studio....Rockets & charts
OK, I get the hint.....for full irony I'll just blame it on the "full moon" and Friday the 13th...back to Rocket Science now and a peaceful humble disposition ( uncharacteristic so it'll take some work! )

P.S. don't you know that intellectual arrogance on Kitco is inversely proportional to the DOW and thus a rise in IA, indicates a fall in DOW, precipitating a rise in POG? It's been charted and correlates perfectly to E, and K wave theories also....

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:19 - ID#36156)
Contrarian Mutual Funds discussed on CNNFN.

HenryD -- Go GOLD!

Bully Beef
(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:21 - ID#259261)
Donald is the expert in the truth. His sources are right on unless he
uses that one Gold page. The truth is in between the lines of worthy news stories.

Bully Beef
(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:22 - ID#259261)
Donald is the expert in the truth. His sources are right on unless he
uses that one Gold page. The truth is in between the lines of worthy news stories.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:23 - ID#257148)
A riddle, a riddle, a tiddly ay tiddle-- a golden riddle and very much on subject
You asked a little while ago about the riddle of the sphynx. You're right, man.

Now what about this 'un?


In a marble hall as white as milk,
Lined with skin as soft as silk,
Within a fountain crystal clear,
A golden apple, doth appear,
No doors there are to this stronghold,
Yet thieves break in to steal the gold.


(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:25 - ID#266110)
@GOLDEN PROPHET RE: Your 13:54 Gold goes skyhigh
I agree with everything you say. If gold and oil can take off, why can't silver too? Is it isolated by itself?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:30 - ID#347235)

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:47 - ID#57232)
LBMA trading volume a symptom, not disease?
Charles Keeling: Glad to see you saw my post in the flurry of others. I think we are looking at the LBMA in the wrong way -- myself included. The LBMA trading is very popular, and the world's financial heavyweights must use it for something. Why not for the security of knowing that your transactions -- in anything -- not just oil -- are being made with a stable, secure medium of exchange? Gold.
Now, it is still possible that some enterprising individuals have corrupted this 200 year old Bullion market with the use of 'paper' gold, as I think ANOTHER claims. I am not disputing that. But -- if that is so, and the gold trading dries up at the LBMA, the trading will still go on -- at Istanbul, or some other Bullion market. I would guess that the LBMA would be back up and running very quickly, with a new set of clients. The only difference might be that the clients who sponsored the 'paper' gold would be blacklisted.
Just a thought, IMHO.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:47 - ID#269409)
Best Rockafeller/Illuminati resource link
To be fair and impartial, here's the appropriate link which gives the full picture of the "forces" behind the whole Rockafeller, Ilumminati, One wolrd, et al theary...lots o' links to Rockafeller, Bilderberger, etc stuff here.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:51 - ID#252127)

Palladium up $12 3/4 at $272 and rapidly coming on par with gold.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:54 - ID#57232)
I'll be your 'straight' man!
aurator: You've got me -- I don't have a clue, except perhaps it is the image of the golden apple in the fountain, and not the apple. But that is not I think an adequate answer!

Do I get partial credit for a valiant attempt at solving the Riddle of the LBMA?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 15:59 - ID#31868)
Retired Soldier
Do yourself a big favor and call 800-593-2585 and ask for Russ Savage and tell him your situation and what you own, he will help you out and help explain a direction. Jefferson Coin and Bullion is the company.

Do yourself a favor and make the call, it will help set you on the right path to understanding where you are and where you should be thinking of going.

There are many here I am sure that have folks they deal with in coins and bullion, Russ happens to be the fella I trust and do business with.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:01 - ID#257148)
Soldier Retd.
You've made a mistake if there's pizzas on the Soverinis ( see Nick@C this a.m. ) No need to shout, old boy. Were you stationed too close to a cannon?

All credit, there may be ANOTHER who can solve the riddle, let us see.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:05 - ID#57232)
You did it again!
Donald: You literally answer my posts before I write them! We keep forgetting that the US dollar is the world's currency, so that virtually every bank in the World has US dollars in reserve. Certainly all the central banks.

So -- the stablility of the US dollar is dependent upon the stability of other currencies, such as the Greek Drachma. Not a pleasant situation to be in -- not just for the US, but for all the other countries that use the dollar as a medium of exchange. Do you think the Greeks will be selling gold in a fire sale? Perhaps they already did.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:06 - ID#257148)
Illuminating URLs
Clever man! throw the loopy conspiracists a bucket load of URLs to keep them busy for a month or two, and away from kitco.

If that ain't enough conspiracy, why try

The International House of Fruitcakes.

I was saving it up for Ziva, but I guess she's already there

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:12 - ID#251166)
Long View
Reply to:

-- THE GOLDEN PROPHET -- Thanks for the warm welcome. Yes, it was with some urgency I popped for bullion, like pulling a quarter out from behind the ear of a kid watching the other hand. A slick trick if you're the kid, but hardly magic -- even as a "mature and worldly" observer might wonder why you're wasting your time playing with the kid in the first place.

-- Farfel -- Thank you also for the welcome. Re. humility -- Yes sir, we take great pride in our humility. Re. the little guy's arrival in the PM market -- I really agree with you they won't be here 'til it's too late, if at all. I'm foreseeing such a high entry threshhold as to constitute a lockout. Feed the kids, pay the mortgage, or buy an ounce? What choice? That's probably why everybody can't be rich.

-- Eldorado -- "Just bury the stuff and forget about it." Excellent advice. My own strategy is also sophisticated: If gold stays flat, I hold. If it goes down, I hold. If it goes up, I hold. ( That, I think, will be the real test, holding as it rises. ) In concurrence with ANOTHER, I believe we're right on the verge of a radical change in perception. Five to ten days? Five to ten years? Who's really to say? As Solomon said ( to paraphrase ) , "There's nothing new under the sun," -- that is, history is not linear but cyclical. That gold is today on the downside of its historical cycle is, as it's been expressed here in countless ways, a matter of modern ( cf. post-modern ) perception. And that'll change.

Re. Middle East:

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is the overriding/presiding ideology of the Arab nations. During interviews many Arab leaders have declared they will never be content until they recover the entire land of Israel from the Jews. Yasser Arafat stated in 1980, "Peace for us means the destruction of Israel." One of the reasons the Arabs will never accept the right of Israel to exist in the Middle East is that their Koran teaches that if a land was ever occupied in the past by Muslims, then it must be recovered by "Jihad" -- that is, holy war. Although Arafat pledged in the Oslo Accords to eliminate references to the destruction of Israel from the PLO charter, he has refused to do so. Moreover, most of his Arab allies refuse to abandon their goals to destroy the Jewish state.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist -- nor a nuclear scientist -- to deduce that, in a strapped and desperate world economy where gold is recognized as the ultimate wealth, for the right price anything can be bought.



(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:13 - ID#252127)

Once the uncertainty caused by years of manipulation of the poor mans money is cleared up; silver should approach $10, the odds favor, that gold will tag along on that basis alone.

If we base future gold price performance on the US trade deficit and the huge sums on interest being payed to foreigners as a result of US Treasuries, then add world paper currency problems to the mix - gold will fly like an eagle in the not to distant future.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:15 - ID#269409)
Aurator / JTF
"Like Apples of GOLD on settings of SILVER, is a word, aptly spoken"

Book Of Proverbs, Bible ( can't remember chapter/verse but will retrieve on request! )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:20 - ID#288295)
Your statement of silver being up 61% in terms of Indian Rupees is WRONG!!!!Data from the Indian Reserve Bank for AVERAGE silver prices in Rs/Kg follows:1990-91... 6760; 1994-95... 6692; 1995-96... 7220; 1996-97... 7165; current price this week 7800-8000. If you will take the time to do your homework on this, you will find that there are numerous monthly average since 1995 greater than 8000 Rs/Kg.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:20 - ID#347235)
Aurator Yes I do have a hearing loss,but also have bifocals ( the army aint an easy way to make a living ) no complaints though the Retirement comes young and The pay comes in handy.Tolerent L I bought my last coins from Russ thanks for recommendation.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:22 - ID#269409)
@Retired...Saints vs. other Gold coins
What did you pay for the "MS 62 Saints", and are they certified by PCGS or NGC? That will factor heavily into whether they were a good deal relative to bullion coins.

The premium on "Saints" can and has gone up in multiples of POG in a rising market thus making them a good choice for mild leverage gains relative to bullion coins, also, Saints are currently a good / great choice because their Numismatic value limits their downside "floor" risk if POG falls. Amply demonstrated already this year when they stayed at the same level as POG fell by $40 and more.

However, the Saints must be accurately graded and purchased from a reputable source who quotes a reasonable buy/sell spread and agrees to buy back. $420 to $460 region should be about right for true MS 62 currently.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:23 - ID#288295)

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:24 - ID#257136)
Since LGB won't or can't answer, here are (Ithink) the correct ones!
I don't believe jews have any monopoly on either making money, banking or conspiracies!
To me, the "Crazy Conspiracies" are merely the manipulation of people and markets for the
purpose of garnering wealth.No more and no less!
That they seem to be world wide in scope depends largely on one's viewpoint and education
in such matters.
Not being knowledgeable in any of the above, I hereby propound some questions which I
believe to be appropos to your post and to this forum.

!. Did the Illuminatti actually exist? ANSWER! YES

2. Does the Council on Foreign Relations actually exist?ANSWER YES Are any of its members wealthy? ANSWER: YES or
involved in financial ventures with one another?ANSWER: YES

3. Are there really such critters as Tri-lateralists?ANSWER: YES Who and what are they and what do they
do?ANSWER: Businessmen doin' what they do best!
Can you and I become one?ANSWER:YES. Are there any specific criteria for membership in such an elite
group.ANSWER: YES. Success and a positive bent toward PROFIT! ( providing it does exist! )

4. Are/is there really a banking house ( ANSWER: YES ) ( or family ) known as Rorhschild If so, are they extant? ANSWER: YES

5. Can you come up with a better way to gain power and influence on a very ( world? )
wide basis than by doing the things alleged to
having been/being done by the the aforementioned groups, families and individuals? ANSWER: NO!
( This last answer is strictly my position and is not necessarily endorsed by any others on this forum or elsewhere.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:26 - ID#210235)
@conspiracies a la carte
Ok, just once I'd like to hear from someone who has personal experience of discovering a conspiracy, or of seeing one in action. Even of being part of one - not just third hand stuff. Going back some years, I had the pleasure of living in the lovely spot west of Boston near the center of the John Birch Society. Needless to say, I met many of their supporters and some staff. Really, nice, sincere folks. Read several books related to conspiracy stuff. Earnest as can be. But, folks, I discovered someone I knew well was presented as a conspirator to some really down and dirty stuff. NO WAY, NO HOW, was this person I've known all my life capable of this. I have certainty of this. Whoever wrote that book just didn't know the people he was writing about.

IMVHO, the belief in one of those world-domination theories requires an absence of personal knowledge of the conspirators. There must be sense of the OTHER. So, prove me wrong! Please. I'm here to learn, too.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:28 - ID#347235)

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:30 - ID#347235)
Sorry hit wrong key, the Stes graded by pcgs price is ballpark what I paid what about Sovs? thanks

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:33 - ID#269409)
@ a.j.
You forgot to answer question # 6 for us.

6 ) Are there whacko's who believe every little cleverly crafted conspiracy, home remedy, or UFO theory that comes along, no matter how much factual evidence must be discarded to hold to such a theoretical belief? YES!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:34 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 29.17 ( last week Friday the ratio was 29.11 )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:36 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .260 ( Last Friday the ratio was .254 )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:38 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 47.72 ( Last Friday the ratio was 48.51 )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:38 - ID#269409)
@ Retired S.
Purported advantage of Sovs. vs. AE's is that they, like "Saints", escape "reporting requirements". I don't know, depends on privacy issue.

Personally, for low cost Numismatic Gold, I much prefer Saints in 62/64 region, and in bullion, Maples and VP's are nice because of purity.. ( though the Treasury apparently has plans to market a .9999 fine Gold coin soon....funny how them conspirators on the Goveeement are sellin us Gold that we're not supposed to have eh?? )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:40 - ID#257136)
( fat fangers )
Being a relative newcomer to the community, I soon learned it would be very dear for me to buy it outright.

A young man whom we knew was amenable to purchasing it at a decent price. He held it 'til thru conspiratorial methods the city council was bamboozled into changing the zoning to multi-family dwellings. ( R--4 )
It was then sold to us for again a decent price allowing the middleman a fair cut.
It now is ready to be either built on or sold as a dandy place to put apartments.
No conspiracy, even tho it was all done in silence between folks who had an axe to grind.
Down here it's called gud bidmess!
Conspiracies, schmiracies ad nauseum. Secret agreements among like minded person ain't conspiracies-- just gitin sumpin dun!!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:44 - ID#410194)
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released this afternoon:

Gold: Fell 688 troy ounces to 478,386

Silver: Rose 54,562 troy ounces to 91,540,267

Copper: Fell 587 short tonnes to 115,644

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:47 - ID#347235)
Thanks for the info, I dont trust this gubmint any more than AJ and probalbly because I supported and defended the Constituton until it about kilt me off.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 16:58 - ID#410198)
Tolerant,do you get a commish from RS,maybe you could lead folks to my web page. VBG
LGB:if you can get MS 62 SAINTS for $460.00 I'll take a few hundred if you can deliver in under two weeks NGC or PCGS current wholesale bid $475.00

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:06 - ID#220325)
D.A. Can you advise me as to where to buy the Dec./99OTC options?
I just called my broker and he did not know where to buy the OTC gold options. He had called the Comex floor trader and the reply was that the regular options did not go beyond Feb/99. Can you tell me of a place where he can make the purchase please? Have a great weekend. Thanks

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:06 - ID#288295)
If you're in the gold market looking for numismatic addition to the Sov's and U.S. gold $20, don't forget to also look at the small european gold pieces ( pre-1933 ) which trade at only about 10% or so above spot bullion ( for raw BU coins ) . Examples are: France or Switzerland 20 Franc, Germany 20 Marks, Italy 20 Lira, Austria 20 Corona, ( and other countries ) all slightly less than 1/5 oz in weight. I especially like the French 'Rooster' and 'Angel' designs, which are comparable in beauty to the St.Gaudens double-eagle

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:07 - ID#269409)
@ RObnoel/Soldier
Quite right Robnoel, I was in temporary brain lock from the conspiratorial black choppers that were beaming invisible rays at me from up above, as they scoped out my guns....It's basic BU Saints that are in the $420 to $460 range, ie Raw MS 60/61. Why i was thinking of those and talking of PCGS ...well, that Friday 13, full Moon, black chopper, Another dude made me do it!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:09 - ID#251166)
(a.j. @ 16:24) Re. CFR & Tri-Lateral Commission members
Per Grant Jeffrey's book "Final Warning -- Economic Collapse and the Coming World Government," ( Frontier Research Publications, Inc., Toronto, Ontario ) , the Tri-Lateral Commission was established in 1973 uniting select leaders from Europe, North America and Japan; among the charter members is Henry Kissinger. Big name CFR members include Bill Clinton, George Bush and ( yes ) Jimmy Carter, along with prominent members of their and Reagan's cabinets. Lots of other recognizable names too; don't have the book with me just this minute but will update later if there's interest.



(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:11 - ID#266110)
@Retired Soldier RE: 15:30 Which is the best buy?
You are talking about three different things when you ask your question.
1. Eagles & Maples are bullion coins
2. Soverigns are seminumismatic
3. Saints are numismatic

Depending upon your objectives, each one plays a specific role. Can't answer your question until you tell us what you paid and what your objectives are.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:12 - ID#269409)
@ Retired Soldier
Even us civilians have little love or trust of this Govt., it's the worst Govt. there is on Earth....except for all the others.

I don't think however, that they'd be marketing Gold American Eagles at the Treasury website, if they had it in mind to be taking em anytime soon. That'd cause a little uneccessary wrath and dissension don't you think? ( Dem Tresury boys got ta git der conpiracy thingie strait now! )

Charles Keeling
(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:13 - ID#344225)
Could the answer to the missing
golden apple possibly be~~~~THE TOILET?

Down which the DOW is soon to enter.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:15 - ID#410198)
Looks like I screwed up last post for, tolerant,LGB, RETIRED SOLDIER
Tolerant,if you got half the post it was tongue in cheek,just ragging on you for pushing RS nothing personal,I post my adds in the classified section
LGB,If you can get MS62 Saints cert either PCGS or NGC for $460.00 I will take a few hundred if you deliver in under two weeks current wholesale bid is $475.00 ST/Libs,maybe my supplier is hosing me

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:15 - ID#288295)

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:16 - ID#269409)
@ Lock & Lode
That's what I was trying to say earlier to the "Soldier" in my neuron challenged manner, but you articulated it much better. This new medication is murder!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:18 - ID#257148)
Charles Keeting
Nice try, thank you for playing. ;- ) Nope.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:22 - ID#410198)
Now now LGB thats like Bill saying Monica made me do it

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:23 - ID#220325)
APH- thanks for your 09:32post
I am particularly interested in your take on the Snp at 1094.What do you project for the downside? I wonder if this is just a temporary high or do you anticipate something more? Thanks

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:27 - ID#222243)
Prometheus (conspiracies)
O.K. Prometheus, just for once, as you say. A friend and I discovered
a cache of dynamite in 1969 that was part of the Weathermen's
conspiracy to strike at symbolic big biz targets. All very
dramatic and hush hush. FBI came in to continue the investigation.. A real conspiracy. They do happen, but not often, thankfully.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:27 - ID#347235)
Thanks for all the opinions and help, this is what I wanted yesterday instead of all the invective. I am just trying to have a little fun AND make
sure what little money I have doesnt wind up in the crapper when slick willy screws up bigtime. I have put about 6 mo of my retired pay into this so I am not afraid of losing much just yet

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:40 - ID#233199)
@Retired Soldier

What do yo make of ANOTHER?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:48 - ID#26669)
Silverbaron, THANKS!
Wonderful website!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:50 - ID#347235)
@ swp1
Havent read enough of him yet to make up my mind, when I do beleive me all will know

(Fri Mar 13 1998 17:51 - ID#215208)
Gold: Well I lied. Gold did not break out either way this week. It managed to wiggle into the very apex of the wedge formed by the upper boundary of the long-term downward-trending channel and the lower boundary of the short-term upward-trending channel. When I predicted the breakout, I had not taken into account the fact that the April options expired today. With this behind us, I ( and almost everyone else, I think ) predicts a quick significant move in gold. The $64,000 question is, "Which way?". My thoughts later.

Silver: Silver has definitely broken out of its incredibly steep upward channel. It seems to have found support along a line that is still upward-trending, but at a more reasonable slope, very close to the 40% per year slope of the recent gold and platinum channels. Assuming this may form the bottom of a new channel, one can tentatively establish the top of this new channel by using the same channel width as before. This is the optimistic picture ( and the one I support ) . However, I won't be totally comfortable with this until silver breaks out of the wedge pattern it has recently formed. This should happen early next week. If we see a London afternoon closing below 6.00, we will more likely see APH's scenario ( and others ) , who predict a quick drop to around 550.

Palladium: Wow! This is a breakout! The first question is, "How high is up?". I have looked to the past for some guidance. I have shown a couple of possible lines of resistance, both which cross at roughly the same point. These would predict that palladium should top out at about 278-280. I still have not found a good basis for constructing a channel around palladium. It is too wild to be chained.

Platinum: This is the sleeper. At today's London afternoon closing, platinum showed a slight breakout of the long-term downward-trending channel. The spot closing shows it well outside the channel. Given palladium's run, I think it is fair to predict that platinum is now in an up-trend. The PL-PA spread is at a 20-year low, around $120. Only twice in the last 20-years has it been as low as $140. This puts a lot of upward pressure on platinum, and I think it will move up quickly next week, perhaps up to the top of the upward channel, around $420. ( By the way, for what its worth, these historical lows in the PL-PA spread were followed by the great gold bull markets of 1978-1980 and 1985-1986. )

Now back to gold. I think the breakouts in PA and PL is bullish for gold. If silver holds within the new upward channel I defined, I think gold will break upwards. I think it will quickly move up to at least the top of the

channel, around $320 at this point. Perhaps it will overshoot, as it will have a lot of momentum. If all of the above happens, we will be in a new PM bull market, with all 4 metals cruising up at rate of 40%/year or better.

Hang on to your hats!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:07 - ID#26669)
Retired Soldier re coins
IMHO if there is a Mrs. Old Soldier or Daughter-of-the-Old-Soldier a few fractional ounce US Eagles, Chinese Pandas, Isle of Man Cats, et cetera all done up in 14k bezels and equipped with appropriate ear wires or chains or brooch pin backs might be a nice gesture, not having anything to do with monitary value. Or if she's a real afficianado, even a full ounce put into a glued-shut plastic coin safe type container or block of acrylic and mounted on a key chain...what one loses in numismatic value is regained in less tangible areas. Last year I distributed several coins in this manner to various related persons and have heard no negative comments.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:16 - ID#26793)
Can we agree that the Declaration of Independence was the result of a conspiracy against the king?

JOE Smith
(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:17 - ID#24869)
Silverbaron silver photo's
I hope you were able to pulldown the various shots ,7 in all.

I have tried to join them to postings in this forum, but it does not work for me.I have transferred ecm2.jpg to the kitco ftp site but that is all.

If others are interested they can be obtained

cut and paste this---files are about 120k

They attempt to show why all the assay problems due to sampling errors

higher resolution photos are also available from

(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:20 - ID#347235)
There IS a Mrs Ol Soldier and she is enthusiastic about aquiring the stuff but not in rendering is useless as a hedge I let her buy
' puter stuff she lets me buy cameras,guns and gold we are very happy.

Aragorn III
(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:23 - ID#212323)
Aurator...its an egg
And with that I'm off to reduce the world beer supply...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:26 - ID#257136)
LGB: Sorry I missed that one! Gotta go wif ya on thet statement.
I guess the major difference betwixt y"all and myself is the fact that I do not consider those who think differently or believe differently to be of a slightly lower form of life.
I have tried to make light of the situation, 'cause I fervently believe that there are real economic and social problems, not just here but elsewhere.
I also know from first-hand experience the many things otherwise decent folks will do to anyone who standS between them and a profit.

Bidnes az usal. "member, I liv in arkeesaW!

The word conspiracy is overworked and seems to be a buzz word for persons of all politicaL PERSUASIONS. Practically speaking, it is non-descriptive.
If we each look at ourselves we , I am sure, will see a conspirator ( dictionary definition-not the buzzword ) .
I, and probably many others on this forum could, but will NOT tell of other nefarious deeds done as young men and women, which we would not want our friends or progeny to be apprised of,which could properly be called conspiracies!

I think what set me off was when Old Soldier asked a reasonable question of mozel. It precipitated some action.
I tried to needle you the same way, so as to see if there is any substance there beyond your posts.
Your responses have given me my answer. I know now I waS CORRECT IN MY ASSESSMENT! dern fangers!!
Ol' Slick from Hope has got nada on you when it comes to evasion of a direct query.
I will make no statement as to character, as that is not my bag!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:30 - ID#288295)
Joe Smith @ ECM core photos
Joe - the photos looked great to me; anyone who sees them should easily agree that 1 or 2% silver is present.Thanks for publishing them. It's time to go to work on those Perth brokers, I think.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:40 - ID#250121)
And the cigar goes to---
Aragorn III

(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:41 - ID#257136)
jonesy Yeah, I'm interested. Also, sumun(LGB-maybe) tell me moah 'bout them ther blayuck choppers.
Certainly hope yu'uns ( LGB ) wa'nt tokin' bout no folks in rwanda or burundi, as thet wud b xtreemlee racist.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:42 - ID#411149)
Well folks after listening to CBS news tonite I do believe they
got him. Them ole boys in the pits really got somethin to be worried about now!

Between Another and oil and klinton, Gold $550 by August 1998- Ain't that right Chad?

Tally Ho

(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:47 - ID#344308)

how tight can it get?

it is incredible to see that gold has been able to sustain
the current levels..with the constant barrage of selling,
for what seemed forever..where are we now? bad news seems
to no longer affect the pog...what has changed? has the oft
mentioned paradigm shift taken place? have its' taskmasters
decided to loose the beast? the pressure from its' contraction
has created heat....with heat, more pressure....'for every action,
there is an equal and opposite reaction' isaac newton..
gold is way oversold....and way over-due....stalk your
know the sellers of gold have to return this'll be their
last journey. the hides will hang high for a fort-night, then relegated
as carrion.

Mike Sheller
(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:53 - ID#347447)
LGB - Hallelujah
Brother LGB, so nice to see you back in force, with talk of Apocalypse, ( now? ) " Saints, " and Biblical quotes! What HAS happened to that scientific demeanor, mon frere? ( not that I do not like the NEW, espirtual, LGB ) .

Mike Sheller
(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:54 - ID#347447)
Chad is ALWAYS right, if you ask me.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:55 - ID#210114)
Anyone know when the ECB will announce its gold reserves?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 18:56 - ID#31868)
The Sergeant Major was aquitted on all counts
except two - obstruction of Justice charges brought against him. The eight jurors found no basis whatsoever in the charges of the 6 women who alledged sexual assault in one way or another.

Of the 19, 17 of them were sexual in nature, all dimissed. Two which dealt with obstruction are on the table - That's all I know at present and it is a first report, so let us see what happens.


Not let us see what they do to the Coward Erect.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:00 - ID#257136)
tolerant1 (did you get the email w/ the other address?
As to ol' slick: ya don seruslee fink dey gunna do inyfing wif thet gud ol' boy does ya?
It would luk 2 much lak a cunspearusee if'n sumpin wuz truh b dun!
Y'all no dare an't no sush a fing!! Don' ya?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:00 - ID#78136)
Retired Soldier

Since you have a lot of time on your hands, you
should write a letter or email Veterans Affairs
and inquire how they are making out on their computer
systems year 2000 compliance problems. My info is
that they have told Congress that they may not be
ready. Could be a problem with your monthly cheque.
Better put a little gold away that you can use
while they get the problem sorted out. You might ask
Silverbaron if he has some data on how collector coins
as opposed to bullion coins like Maples, did when gold
was well valued. I saw some data on it, but I can't
remember where. I never thought myself knowledgeable
enough or had enough time to really know if I was getting
ripped off or not. The Maples are easy, small premiums
to spot gold. Buy and stash. No brainer.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:10 - ID#31868)
a.j. - mail - working on it.
Now as to the Coward Elect, yes, the press is turning on him and EnviroWhore Gore. In addition, I think very soon you will see a feeding frenzy on the First Felonness. In my humble opinion she is at the root of a lot of hatred that is taking down the Coward Elect in order to get at her and get rid of her bumbling idiot of a husband in the process.

I have met Rhodes Scholars, so what, big deal. A putz is a putz no matter what the little frame on the wall says.


(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:11 - ID#256326)
the brave and wise american folks are not going to shoot themselves in the, ah, foot and get rid of their "head" of state until the dow is down 1500 points. buddy or paula could be president for life as long as the dow stays up.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:20 - ID#348286)
Ray - You bet they got him: Lewinsky, Jones, Willy, Flowers and who knows how many more babes will pop out of the woodwork.
This guy is a total mess and it's boggles my mind why so many Americans still approve of him?
How can Hillary keep a straight face when she defends him?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:23 - ID#257136)
SGT.MAJOR!Spouse told me he was acquited of one of the obstruction charges, but could be awarded
5 yrs on the other.
If he is sentenced, the die is cast for ol' b.j. if he can only be proven to have obstructed justice.
Well see just how ol' b.j. likes it in a joint wif lotsa reel bubbas!.

And a snowball in hell will last overnite,too!
They'd find a way for him to continue to get a living even if he is convicted.
He'd never be given a day in a real joint!

Folks take care of their own and he ain't our'n.
Them whut owns 'im will keer fer 'im!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:23 - ID#31868)
aurophile, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
probably correct. However, I would stipulate that the Coward Erect is in bad shape, the press is feeding on him and today, they attributed a portion of the drop in the market to some "breaking" news about the Erection in Chief.

When the market starts to sink, they will eviscerate him in full view of the world.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:27 - ID#257136)
tolerant1: would your prediction could be fulfilled.
I personally believe in the drawin' and quarterin' of TRAITORS!
Cumon LGB, tel me it wuz al a kunspearasee and he never dun ut!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:35 - ID#410215)
..... DJ Channel Guy .....

DJ -

You are right on target with the PGM thingie. Palladium closed up limit today - $6, and will likely open up limit in Asia Monday. The cash market for palladium rose by $13 dollars today. We now have backwardation in palladium. Seems like we've seen something like this before. When palladium runs, platinum is always hard on the heels by. Traders responded to the news that the upper house of the Russian parliament passed the 1998 budget, by going up limit. Nobody believes the Russians will ship until the metal actually shows up.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:38 - ID#31868)
Spock - I don't think they know when they
are going to make an announcement.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:45 - ID#330175)
'March MADness' lives in the background.................*Go Gold*
abx is sneakin up...arf arf arf....

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:46 - ID#210235)
I've been meaning to congratulate you on living in one of the most beautiful spots anywhere. Couldn't talk Mr. Prometheus into going out to see it.

As to your conspiracy. OK, I'll grant they're as common as rain. Just hate to see nice folks demonized in books as secret brethren plotting to enslave us all. Can't do a darn blasted thing about it. People believe what they want to believe. Should have keep my fingers off the keyboard.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:47 - ID#210114)
Thank you Tolerant 1

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:47 - ID#210235)
Yep, it was a conspiracy. Dropping the subject for now. It's off-topic and futile, anyway.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:48 - ID#210235)
Interesting story. Haven't seen your handle before. Howdy.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:49 - ID#348286)
@The Off-White House: "The Willey interview will be a near-death experience for the President,"


Former White House employee tells 60 MINUTES on Sunday that President Clinton sexually assault her just outside the Oval Office. She reveals to Ed Bradley: Nathan Landow, a major Democratic donor, tried to influence her testimony by asking her to withhold giving a deposition in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case.

This is known at this hour: The interview will fill two 60 MINUTES segments -- running nearly 40 minutes. Willey is so compelling, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned, that close to 9 minutes of Willey's conversation with Bradley will run without a single edit. 60 MINUTES producer Michael Radutzky has been working closely with Willey's lawyer setting up the interview. Willey had a big week, providing testimony to Starr's grand jury on Monday, giving an update to her Jones deposition on Wednesday, sitting down with Bradley on Thursday.

"The Willey interview will be a near-death experience for the President," a network source predicts to the DRUDGE REPORT.

Willey was first introduced to the nation in this space, in a series of exclusive reports that were published over the course of several weeks last Summer.

[ Flashback at ]

Elsewhere, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned that Linda Tripp gave an interview with NEWSWEEK in a hotel in Washington late this week, believed to be for a cover story on Tripp. What is being described as a "closely controlled" Q & A session with the magazine's Michael Isikoff, Tripp gave her first interview on the Monica Lewinsky investigation. She also posed for pictures. There are indications that Tripp's interview did not directly explore any evidence that is currently being presented to a federal grand jury, including specifics of the famed Lewinsky/Tripp audio tapes. "No talk on specifics... it was more about the overall situation," a magazine source in Washington whispers to the DRUDGE REPORT. It has also been learned that the NEW YORK TIMES is running a Page One story on Tripp this Sunday...

In what is turning into a 'Hell Weekend' for the White House -- with the detailed Paula Jones papers [700 pages] released, a first sit down interview with Linda Tripp taking place for a national magazine, and Kathleen Willey speaking out on 60 MINUTES -- Press secretary Mike McCurry pleaded for compassion.

President Clinton is "a human being and has human reactions," said McCurry.

Clinton's lawyer, Robert Bennett, told reporters in Los Angeles: "This is a form of insanity, what's going on here."

One shock point in the Jones summary judgement papers, obtained by the DRUDGE REPORT, involves a deposition given by Dolly Kyle Browning in the Jones case. Browning testified that she had a long sexual affair with Mr. Clinton, "and that she was contacted by agents of Mr. Clinton, including Bruce Lindsey, threatening to 'destroy her' if she told the truth, and later promising not to spread vicious lies about her in order to get her to downplay her disclosures."

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:50 - ID#251268)
Gold conspiracy?
maybe maybe not,but someone posted earlier this week of a bank
in S.A. selling at 295 and a NY bank buying at 295~~~~~~~~
I don't know but it sounds like a good rumer right up there
with a plan to sell if it runs to 305 area~~comment on this is
I bought 8 options yes. 310 junes and might get some more mon.
but someone sure aint afraid to sell them? makes me think that
minimum there has been talk of this in the pits and it wouldn't
surprise me in the least thats why the multiple position I plan
on selling 1/2 positions or selling farther out of the money calls
or somekind of protective action when there is a rally,and proably
so does a lot of people so I see a stair step rally to the
up side,now if it breaks down hard it could be swift and ugly.All
this is just weekend ramblings,gotta haul more water and I'm in a rain
forest,this is one narly el nino

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:50 - ID#31868)
Go UK! Princeton who?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:50 - ID#330175)
'Swift-move' of the day......... *go team gold*....up~~~~~
Forgot to 'log-off' and ate up 3+ hours of precious ( $$$ ) ISP-time....duh....stoopid!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:50 - ID#210114)
Sharing Some Good News for a Change
To All: Yesterday I recieved in the post 1 round 7.4 gram pure ( 99.99 ) gold sovereign from the Coca Cola Company in Australia which was running a gold promotion for its drinks.

An extra $100 ( Australian ) . Woo Hoo!!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:57 - ID#330175)
This is weird...............livin in the Judge's house('The hanging Judge' he's called in--
New Orleans.... ) ---we'd probably really 'get along',huh..N.O. my old home town ( one year ( little of which I remember by the way ) ...GREAT city!--Go ABX ( ) !!.....

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:57 - ID#348286)
Things go better with Gold - even Coke!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 19:59 - ID#348286)
What are you waiting for, Get UnlimitTED !

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:00 - ID#330175)
try rum&gold............................
huh....hi Old soldier ( what do you do with the cameras? ) ...I hope GOLD kicks some

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:08 - ID#330175)
MoReGoLd........................hi.............your name is----------------
hard ta type ( duh ) when see ( probably nothin ) very little downside risk for gold-gold shares but then again I've seen other 'weird things'....I'm the patient-type ( yeah ) ---will NOT sell my Gosh darn ( hi Bart ) ..abx till I make somethin-anythin ( 25.625 ) ---I'll go down with da ship if I have ta,ya know...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:13 - ID#217338)
Great Central Mines Limited Announces Record Half-Year Operating Profit

MELBOURNE, Australia, March 13 /PRNewswire/ -- Great Central Mines Limited ( Nasdaq: GTCMY - news ) is pleased to announce a record operating profit after tax of US$11,404,570 ( A$17,106,000 ) for the half year ended December 31, 1997, a 10% increase over the same period in 1996. An unfranked interim dividend of three cents has been declared.

The Company experienced strong growth during the period under review with sales revenue increasing by 29.5% to US$111.19 ( A$166.77 ) million over the same period as last year. Gold production increased to 292,154 ounces at an average cash operating of US$194 ( A$291 ) per ounce with gold sales for the half-year totaled 288,064 ounces at an average price of US$386 ( A$579 ) per ounce.

The Company's unaudited net profit after tax for the two month period to February 28, 1998 was US$7.59 ( A$11.38 ) million. This profit is based on gold sales of 128,173 ounces at an average price of US$386 ( A$579 ) per ounce and production of 128,801 ounces at an average cash cost of US$197 ( A$296 ) .

The Company's hedging, including forward sales, call options, put and convertible put options, totals 6.7 million ounces at an average price of US$396 ( A$594 ) per ounce. The mark to market position showed an unrealized gain of US$41 ( A$61.5 ) million at the end of the half-year.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:15 - ID#252391)
Closing price for silver???s
Can anybody tell be the closing price of silver. This page alone has two prices: 6.16, 6.18. These are all higher than Comex which has spot down to 6.06, I think and May at 613.

I guess it closed above $6 but below $6.20.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:16 - ID#344308)


a barrage of ss#1 smoke-signals inbound for the benefit of
your significant other...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:18 - ID#227290)
Cherokee: A quetion, sir.

What do you mean when you say: "it is incredible to see that gold has been able to sustain the current levels..with the constant barrage of selling,"

How do you arrive at that perspective? What is the constant barrage of selling?

The Preacher

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:20 - ID#411112)
O tolarant1 as a member of the VRWC you should really read some stuff
:about the Founding Father of my country Cecil John Rhoades the founder of the Rhoades Scholarship...he was torn between going to Africa to search for gold and diamonds,or go to the new colony America and kick the butt's of those former Brits who were causing the Crown all kinds of grief...he was very loyal to the Crown........ he had a plan,together they would control the ball game it what you will I say THE NEW WORLD ORDER......those who question this...pick a search engine punch in Cecil John Rhoades you make the call

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:21 - ID#348286)
@Y2K - "The crisis in recruitment and retention has already begun,"
Web posted Thursday, March 12, 1998 12:50 p.m. CT

Shortage pays off for IT students

Globe-News Staff Writer

There are plenty of computer programmers in Austin. Trouble is, they don't work for the public sector.

Now state agencies are hurting because of the shortage of computer professionals, the Texas Journal of The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday.

"The crisis in recruitment and retention has already begun," says Carolyn Purcell, executive director of the Texas Department of Information Resources. "Long-term, this is going to continue to be a serious issue."

Amarillo-area governments face a shortage of computer professionals from time to time.

The city of Amarillo is short one now from a budgeted 11 positions, said Nora Lincycomb, recruitment and selection coordinator for the city of Amarillo.

"We've found it real difficult to fill our programmer positions," she said, noting that some new hires have been recruited back to the companies they left for higher pay.

Both Potter County and Randall County are in good shape, county officials said.

Potter County has a full staff of four in its computer department, said Martha Collaer, head of Information Technology for the county.

"I worry every day that someone will steal one of them," she said.

Randall County, which has three on its staff, is also at full strength, said Steve Johnson, data processing manager for Randall County.

"It has not been a problem lately, but we have had people leave for better-paying jobs in the past," Johnson said.

The demand has been so great that graduates with computer degrees are among the most hotly recruited students.

Gary Kelley, head of the Department of Computer Information Services at West Texas A&M University, said his department graduates about 25 to 35 students a year. Many graduates receive two or three offers with pay ranging up to $35,000 to $45,000 a year.

At Amarillo College, the largest demand has been for graduates with degrees in multimedia and those certified to work on IBM AS400 systems, said Bob Sloger, Computer Information System department chairman. Students are recruited both locally and from distant cities.

Both Randall County and Potter County prefer experience in their departments.

Collaer said employees need at least two years on the job before they

are productive. Johnson said both employees working for him have 11/2 years of experience with the county.

State government has the misfortune of having its headquarters in Austin, one of the fastest-growing high-tech centers in the nation and a place where computer-science graduates who once had few options outside state government now are being courted by a host of employers dangling high salaries, signing bonuses and stock options.

"You look at almost any other state capital, and you're not going to find the same competition," says Charles Gray, president of Spectrum Consulting Group Inc. "Austin is a very hard place for state agencies to attract people."

The state's predicament is compounded by the raiding of agency technology staffs by private contractors brought in to help reconfigure computers to correctly read the year 2000. Many computer systems are programmed to recognize only the last two digits in a date and 2000, for instance, would be misinterpreted as 1900.

While overall employee turnover in state government last year was below 15 percent, nearly 20 percent of the 8,000 information-technology professionals left in 1997.

Job losses in some positions and agencies ran even higher. More than 27 percent of computer programmers left state employment last year. And the Information Resources Department, the Youth Commission, the Education Agency and the Insurance Department all had a turnover of more than one-third of their computer staffs.

Last year at the Department of Public Safety, 39 of 208 computer and telecommunications specialists quit and 25 of the departures were in the application-development section, where year 2000 bugs are fixed and new programs developed.

Even when vacant positions are filled, the loss of experience can be devastating. At the Department of Human Services, a January glitch in a computer system caused a one-week delay in dispersing $75 million in Medicaid payments to nursing homes. When the problem occurred, the agency had only one person with enough experience to find and fix the bug.

The personnel deficit also is delaying introduction of newer, more efficient computer systems, or requiring the hiring of costly outside consultants.

Another problem is agencies are investing a lot of money in training new hires who may not stick around. Human Services recently sent six trainees through a year of instruction but only one remains at the agency.

State officials warn high turnover and vacancy rates could endanger the successful completion of the year 2000 changes, raising the project's cost and causing potentially damaging delays. Agencies often have to turn to outside contractors, and strong demand for these experts has driven up their price, which has caused many programmers to leave their agencies for the private sector and then turn around and sell their services back to the state at a much higher cost.

A typical state programmer earns about $29 an hour in salaries and benefits, while contract programmers on average receive more than $70 an hour, and as much as $100 an hour if they possess critical skills. Project managers can earn $100,000 a year or more, typically twice what they would make on the state payroll.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:21 - ID#411150)
..... Deja Vu all over again .....

I went back to some of my old posts. I remembered speculating that palladium could top gold soon. After reading the post, it seemed strangely appropriate to the PGM situation today. Got no time to edit, got a date. The post in its entirety from 6/5/97 ( this was only my third or fourth post to this group, I have mellowed some since then, my proofreading is still sadly lacking ) .


For those of you turned off by my typos in the previous postings, What can I say? I was on a roll. Who has time to proofread? Stream of consciousness posting. If you had trouble reading my gold ditty ( I did ) Ill repost a coherent version. Enough looking back! Forward. Did you like my info? My clients did. Tens of thousands in profits in four hours today. Spot Platinum $18, out at $440, missed a couple bucks at the top but look for a pullback tomorrow. Time to do it again will be next week. Palladium bounced off $200 like a cement floor. Where is the weakness there? My $204 looked pretty good at $227 in London overnight. Strong support in New York today. Gap up tomorrow in palladium. Lease rates have reached 300%. The Russian government has suspended all fuel shipments to Norilsk. How will long suffering miners dig ore, process ore, and smelt ore with no fuel? Do you think this move was designed to drive palladium to new highs? Only the Russians have consistently demonstrated the finesse required to simply talk a market up or down. Dare I say, palladium has an outside chance of going higher than gold?? Those of us with the courage of our convictions are riding a righteous crest unmindful of the remaining doubts of risk gnawing the bones of our more sensible selves. Not since Tyson Foods teamed up with Hillary have industrial traders had such rotten luck.

They heard me in the silver pits and responded nicely with an 11 cent trading day. Did anyone cover your gold at $339.50? Look for a bounce in sympathy with the PGMs and sell it into the basement anywhere above $346. Dont fight the central banks. They are your friends. Do what they do. Its easy.

Seas of woe in Japan tonight. The only lifeboats are showing no freeboard. An ocean of losses in uncovered shorts is lapping over the sides as these woebegone disbelieves of the palladium storm grimly squish their cold and wrinkled toes inside their Nikes. They will gaze at the horizon and remember fondly a time before the world turned upside down so quickly. A time when up was a kinder direction. These are good men. These are brave men, whose only sin was to bite the snake once too often. The worm is out of the tunnel. The hog has turned.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:24 - ID#330175)
CherOkee----------WILLY is a dilema!!--------
Mo-Fo says ( oil rig worker Sabine Pass ) let's dog-nap em ( hide him under a rug ( drug em ( he WON'T ( and he's BIG ) get into ANY vehicle! ) --and sneak em though customs ( probably get 'life' here for that,huh... ) --a 'real problem' bro...

Repair man
(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:26 - ID#409209)
ANOTHER'S post on Monday ( 7:55 ) does not say that gold is going to $320. I posted this correction on Tuesday ( 02:00 ) , but I guess it was too late in the night. I also noticed afterwards that Mozel had already posted the correction on Monday ( 12:22 ) . Those who are interested should go back and read the Monday ( 7:55 ) post again, slowly.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:30 - ID#31868)
If they can bleed, they can lose.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:35 - ID#411149)
Chad Meek
Mike- I am a believer! He told me about this months ago before any of it came out in the press.

Tally Ho

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:46 - ID#330175)
A beautiful full moon is sparkling on the ocean
Awesome---with a real Silver shine to it,huh....Once again gold loses

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:47 - ID#330175)

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:49 - ID#411112) question...but if the people here can't be botherd to vote,what makes you think they

will fight

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:51 - ID#288369)
Out! Out! Damned Spot! (Spot Crude $11.75).....
They strut and fret their hour upon the stage...where's ORIS?...what's time to a hog? [:~Q ....Go Gold...going...going....gone. No more ridiculous riddles...I thought it was a womb. Egg, my ass. Wombsactly!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 20:56 - ID#257136)
Prometheus: I was actually having a little sport 'cause it bothers me when folks start accusing
other folks of being total fools and/or idiots because they disagree on subjects. If we all agreed, no one would go long against shorts and vice versa. Hence no exchange.
Simplicity is quite often too much like a tree for some to be able to perceive the forest.
I'm sure we all know that things which some dislike intensely are extant today. One man's trash is another man's treasure, etc.

BTW My being in this particular place is purely serendipitous.

The fact of the Klinton Kapers and the Contras and the dope were only ancillary. Even if they are true ( ? )
If folks judged the area based on the beliefs of the people, no one would visit.
I for one can see no reasonable excuse for me to go to the silicon valley. Last time we were there was six years ago. Due to conspiraCIES ON THE PART OF NETSCAPE AND OTHERS, THE PLACE IS OVERRUN WITH ( ? ) FOLKS, IGUESS. fat fangers agi'n.
One man's normal way of doing business is obviously another man's conspiracy. Had my fun, now I'll close and ask you to click on the url I post here.

So you can gain access to many pages of good photos of the area.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:01 - ID#30116)
What is it about anonymous prophets spewing riddles and ambiguous nonsense that makes otherwise sensible people behave nonsensically?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:04 - ID#288369)
Answer: Lack of accountability...and the love of crisp bacon. Huh?

Bully Beef
(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:04 - ID#259282)
Molbunnnn Golsssooon Beeeeeer
Itsss golden.....papayaaaa fluid of angelllls

(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:07 - ID#31868)
robnoel_A - quite simple really, how many people
do you know that even like the government. Next up is the simple fact that the American people are fed up with both the Democrats and the Republicans. When the American people go through this next financial purging their will be hell to pay for the District of Columbia. There are 10s of millions staunch Americans, what has been loosely termed the silent majority.

When this group awakens and seizes the day I pity that which might get in the way. These are all sorts of individuals. All colors, beliefs, income groups and sexual preferences. They believe in privacy and do not have to tell the world what or who they are. They are everywhere, at the bus stop, down the street in the pool hall, in the libraries and universities and everywhere you look, in the military, in the churches. Believe my friend, they are everywhere and they are not mindless.

They are kind and fair, and they are getting fed up with the status quo.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:12 - ID#23398)
ROYAL OAK MINES,has encountered cost overruns and a cash shortage on its Kemess gold-copper project in north central BC. The co. has suffered along with all the other golds from the drop in the price of metal, all the more so in view ofits high average mining cost. We think Royal Oak will survive and ultimately recover. But running short of funds just before a project starts up is a precarious spot to be in. We still think Royal Oak is a buy, but only for aggressive investors. Even they should only invest money they can afford to lose.FROM THE SUCCESSFUL INVESTOR UPDATE MAR 13/98

(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:14 - ID#257136)
t#1 (and we thank you for say ing it so well! )
I and 9,999,999 of my compaeros thank you!

And it will happen without conspiracy- betcha a dime!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:16 - ID#411112)
tolarant1..I pray you are right how much lead do you we talking about a

a hard asset

(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:19 - ID#257136)
Hard assets and P.M.s.
They took my grandad's and parent's gold in 1933. Then they took MY silver in 1964.

I could feel little if any compunction if I were forced to give them my LEAD and tungsten and steel, as well as powder!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:30 - ID#30116)
STUDIO.R -- Why all the concern over gold and oil? LOOK, palladium is moving, can platinum be far behind? How much thinner are those markets compared to gold? The last time I checked, the platinum group metals were also considered 'precious' metals. :- ) ) I 'wonder' what another would have to say about that... NOT. Hmmm, how does the oil/platinum thingee work? Pardon the 'voice', this evening, but gold still hasn't broken the 40 week M.A. The slope of the line is the same. Don't get me wrong, I like gold. The problem is when to increase my position in it. For now, there are better returns available in other metals.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:42 - ID#210235)
Mena is beautiful. Now you've got me drooling again. But here's the question: Was it on the right side or the left side of my tunic?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:43 - ID#30116)
STUDIO.R -- Upon reading my last post, I realized that you may take it the wrong way. It was not intended to be abrasive towards you ( sorry about that ) . I just get a little frustrated when I read about 'Another' and 'Big Deals' along with, 'We'll be buying all of the gold...' For anyone who believes this talk, consider this; If there were such a person doing this, why would they announce it to the world via this forum? Then ask yourself a few other logical questions and follow the truth of the matter.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:45 - ID#288369)
@panda...monium. Bacon and Eggsactly......
Oil puts the bacon on my table, and gold has bent me over easy. My current investment strategy is to not. I agree, the white metals shine brighter than yellow right now, but, believe me when I tell you...I am fully invested right now....pedal to the metal and pumpin' oil. Oh, the good ol' days....the textbook of "Land, Cattle and Oil" written by all the elders I heeded....You're right, though....about the whites.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 21:57 - ID#210235)
C'mon. Land, cattle and oil may not be the happiest of investments right now, but surely you've had some priceless moments managing the same. Sometimes we forget that life isn't measured on a balance sheet.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:02 - ID#411149)
Ted- hello! Go ABX and RYO! I am turnin in got a loong day tomorrow
football spring scrimage for the Southland conference champs - Northwestern State, that is where my 285lb baby kicks a--.

Tally Ho

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:02 - ID#210235)
There is one person in California that I have actually met and spoken with who not only likes the Federal government but Clinton. "At least he spreads the money around", I believe are his immortal words. The other quarter of a billion of us are with you. You got me started reading Tom Paine again. It's been awhile. Thank you for that.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:03 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Well, let's see where we're at: Gold and silver still in their little, but shrinking 'pocket'; ready to bust out. Monday? OH, one important thing; given how close gold is to the end of its triangle, one might easily expect a QUICK but sharp move out of it in one direction, with a reversal into its real intended direction. That is what I'll be looking for; failure of follow thru. Platinum may relatively easily bust through resistance at 400 given the strength of palladium. Palladium price at or more than gold? Now wouldn't that be sompin' to see! Possibility does exist! Maybe gold will also drop to meet it along the way.

Mar S&P looks like it is ready to break southward again. Numbers below 1068 Monday may mean a near limit down move at/near the open, then a correction back up to some extent. That's all I can say on it until 'eventualities' occur.

Grains ARE in their respective corrective modes! May or may not last long. I personally tend to think not long; a couple days perhaps. Watch the support areas on all. Beans certainly look a lot weaker than either corn or wheat.

Sugar? Was expecting slightly below 9.00 on the May contract, Monday was in my sights for that. Now at 9.4. Break above 9.42 probably means another .2+ on the upside. Monday will tell.

Crude and heating oil are trying, but seem to be rudderless at this time, like gold and silver.

JTF -- I said last week that the upward move in the dollar would not last long. Now it is practically beggin' for a place to land, not that it doesn't have a few bounces left in it. Also, the yen is close to a decision level of its own also. Either it makes a trendline break up over Fridays high or it'll test its .75 lows of January. Keep an eye on the bouncing ball.

HI HO cotton, AWAY!

Hogs and cattle are still relatively mired. For long? I DON'T think so. Greatly oversold, even given their presumed supplies. I think they have now defined their breakout points. They'll look at least like copper! Catch 'em low within their current range for even more protection, if their is more 'low' to be seen.

Anybody got any thoughts on cocoa? Will this move be for real, or will it be 'memorex'?

There, now that I have that out of the way, on to further endeavors.

As is usual, all caveats apply. Comments?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:10 - ID#347235)
@ Bulldog & Ted
Bulldog I had about made that decision already I am not knowledgable enough about collector coins to go heavy there. Thank you for confirming my thoughts.
Ted I was a combat photographer in Viet Nam and some other places I wont name. Still do some photography to supplement the Retired Pay andFederal Job I now have.
Forgot the name of person who told me to check with Veterans Affairs, May pay comes from DODefense funds and 98% of our computers are already Y2K compliant we are way ahead of the rest of gubmint. tks for the suggestion though. If I left out thanks t any who have given good advice today thanks now. I will never start another day like yesterday but the first person that talked to me acted like a putz, I retaliated and it went downhill from there I am really pretty easy to get along with.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:12 - ID#339265)
I hate to say it but I was right about my TVX GOLD prediction...
... with its latest earnings report, the market yawned ( up only 1/8 ) on mild volume ( around 600,000 shares ) ...this in spite of the fact the company ballyhooed its "huge" increase in gold reserves.

Unless gold moves boldly, swiftly, and decisively above 300 or silver soon leaps above 7.00 or TVX solves its troubles in Greece, then TVX will probably continue its downward path.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:14 - ID#411112)
Off topic real scary story in the saturday London Telegraph

i think the address is if not sorry.....its about anthrax and other nasty stuff

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:17 - ID#288369)
@God of Fire.....I'm as tuff as I am stupid....
Wouldn't do one damn thing different....if all of us just talked and swapped paper all day long, the world would stop. I know my role and productivity is the source of my happiness...talking, promoting and shuffling paper ain't my game.
The Fed has endorsed and empowered the paper game because they can't service the debts they have to their people and their foreign creditors with tangible...they fulfill their obligations with paper promises...a debt act we individuals will ultimately be forced to bear. Meanwhile, the peopleo have come to trust paper more than real assets...this will end....they trust a false profit.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:18 - ID#373403)
Check out this story from Magraw-Hill
The sky is falling according to this story. Can anyone explain why the IMF and other governments would oppose a currency board? What actually is the purpose and effect of a currency board?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:18 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Farfel --- That's the problem with stox: Too Damn many things about each on to have to consider! One must buy lots of many stocks to cover your 'ASSets' in case some run into 'difficulty'. Let's see now, how many have there been in the past year? I refuse to own the damn ( or scam ) things! Paper is paper. Inherently worth no more than the ink on it. Bre-X proves that to many here.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:21 - ID#30116)
Chart stuff....
CRB, XAU, and the ratio of the two. Will history repeat?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:26 - ID#373403)
Gold confiscation
Why don't you all go to your state Dept. of Revenue and set yourselves up as jewelry stores. You would then become inventoried retailers instead of evil speculators. They would have a hard time confiscating inventory without paying fair market value. See Uncle Sam, it's not hoarding, it's my livelihood.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:27 - ID#30116)
Now for that silver/gold thing.
Eldorado -- Look at KO ( Coca-Cola ) . What do they sell? Carmel colored suger water. What a concept... :- ) ) Then we could bring up a myriad of other stocks that are nothing more than perception... BUT, on to gold and silver....

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:27 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Farfel -- IF one wants to trade in stoxs, play it the same way as commodity trades play. LEARN the trendlines, support, and resistance, patterns, candles, and/or any other method you care to apply! If 'investors' had done that with even Bre-X, they would NOT have gotten stung!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:27 - ID#288399)
Indonesian "Ides of March"

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:30 - ID#238295)
The Privateeer's latest gold analysis a MUST READ for all gold investors,
To quote Captain Bill:

" In sum, there are a combination of factors which point to a high likelihood that the US
Dollar Gold bear market is in its last stages."

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:30 - ID#288399)
Indonesian "Ides of March"

When the equities markets tank overnight in Asia Monday, how will one know if it is because of the Willey Story/60 minutes or Indonesian problem. I know the IMF 'blinked' with Indonesia on some of the conditionalities, but isn't the deal still that we are going to uphold the payment due on March 15th?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:31 - ID#30116)
Hmmmmm. Well, at least own a HIGH dividend paying gold stock.... It helps mitigate the pain somewhat. Then again, a thirty dollar rally or so in gold wouldn't hurt either...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:35 - ID#288399)
Indonesian "Ides of March"

When the equities markets tank overnight in Asia Monday, how will one know if it is because of the Willey Story/60 minutes or Indonesian problem. I know the IMF 'blinked' with Indonesia on some of the conditionalities, but isn't the deal still that we are going to uphold the payment due on March 15th?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:36 - ID#411233)

Interesting Times
(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:37 - ID#423355)
Farfel (re TVX)
Can't agree with your assessment. The current 'downward trend' has taken the stock from 2 3/8 to 3 1/2, mostly in the last 10 days.
You also implied that management had somehow lost track of 30 million in hedge profits, which turns out not to be the case.

Sure, they need a positive move in gold. True of most mines...

Gold has been pinned down tight for several days now, and it looks like some more skeletons will be emerging from the First Closet over the weekend. It could be an interesting week...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:39 - ID#30116)
Forgot the dollar index....

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:39 - ID#173274)
@the scene
themissinglink -- What, and become another 'business' under THEIR corporate nazi thumb? I DON'T think so!

I personally do not know their particular rational about a currency board that still ties their own currency to the dollar. What is gained? Wasn't their currency tied to the dollar before? I said here near 6 weeks ( or more? ) ago that there would be two choices that they can make: Either they will toe the line with IMF requirements and put the populations into real hock for ever, or they will default on the so-called debts and make ties with China and develop their own currency system. That to me makes sense 'TRIlaterally' thinking.

Interesting Times
(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:40 - ID#423355)
Rumpled: re TVX up 6%
Well... 3.7%, actually. Still better than being bludgeoned with a badger...

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:44 - ID#253153)
Gold Stocks Outlook
In my opinion, all the senior gold stocks on the NY and America exchanges are great bargain. They have started their upward move . They will move slowly for awhile but the move will accelerate as deflation worldwide intensified .Buy all you can now, they will substantially higher by year end.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:50 - ID#30116)
Spread between the long bond and ...
ninety day money. BTW, this is a TIFF file. Just trying something different here. Comments?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:52 - ID#411233)
@ Interesting Times---Haven't been to school in ages, but I've got TVX closing at 4.94---up.28 CDN

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:52 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Robnoel -- Can't be particullarly concerned about anthrax as there is NO WAY people can go through life wearing protective gear and masks. One has to look upon that scenario much the same as getting hit by an asteroid or its effects, or a truck coming across the lane at you; I.E., Not much that one can do about it as you see it coming ( or not ) .

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:52 - ID#215379)
Free Market, very funny
With the Fed controlling the interest rates, $, and now the S&P, as was brought out here at KitcoLand by the stepping in and buying billions of dollars of S&P contracts on that "CORRECTION" day in Oct. Its tough to see any chance for a FREE market.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:53 - ID#30116)
Could someone tell me what is deflating around here? Certainly not the money supply. The Great Depression was the prime reason for adopting a fiat money system. If push came to shove, INFLATE!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:54 - ID#348169)
Is that not some kind of nifty pennant or Flag at the right hand side of your gold chart? How's about a 200 day MA chart.
"The cure for boredom is curiosity.
There is no cure for curiosity." ---Ellen Parr

Interesting Times
(Fri Mar 13 1998 22:58 - ID#423355)
Rumpled: TVX stats from DBC
Last: 3 1/2 Change: +1/8 % Change: 3.70% Previous: 3 3/8
Volume: 828,700.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 23:02 - ID#339265)
...TVX was trading at 8.00 last March, ', it trades at 3 1/2.
That's the downtrend I'm talking about...not the recent little sucker's rally culminating in a whopping 1/8 dollar rise today.

Be still my beating heart!!

That's how I see it...F*, the Unpronounceable.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 23:03 - ID#30116)
The Fed does not control interest rates. The Bond market does. The Fed tries to bully everyone by controlling the short term borrowing rates for member banks. Perception is everything. Those who bought the dips, have not fared to badly so far, no? That too, will change in time, but first the dollar must weaken.

The currency crisis in Asia has started the ball rolling. The trade deficit will get a few more heads turned, and before you know it... It's sort of like a dam breaking. Rarely does a dam fail at once. It's usually a slow process that is obvoius to the trained eye. The untrained eye sees only the spectacular end result.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 23:12 - ID#215379)
Do you really believe we have a free market ?

(Fri Mar 13 1998 23:15 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Panda -- The only thing I know of that is in the deflation mode is the quality of people with skills for employment. Everything else seems to be in inflation mode including the numbers undergoing bankruptcy and large corporate layoffs of people. But who cares. Ain't the system 'geared' to ever rise? HAR! We'll get the shot of money to keep liquidity in the system. THEN ................... implosion. They want everyone in the world to be equal? Well, they certainly will be, and it WON'T be with the so-called US standard of living! Nope. ALL WILL enjoy the benefits of a global 'paradise' ( read serfdom ) equally! One 'nice' nazi jackboot corporate system. Swell!!!

(Fri Mar 13 1998 23:20 - ID#30116)
200 D.M.A. At some point, this ship must turn. I've been burnt too many times thinking that 'normal' analysis works with this particular metal. Therefore, I'll wait for the breaking of the 100 D.M.A. before changing my ever fickle, gold obsessed, mind. :- ) )

(Fri Mar 13 1998 23:20 - ID#348169)
Cocoa ( Brown Gold ) going down for the count.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 23:21 - ID#26669)
R.J. Question about like kind exchanges (or anyone else who has info)
Do you have info about the tax reporting requirements for like kind exchanges, exchanging palladium physical for gold physical? No money exchanged, just equivalant values of one metal for another? Or for that matter silver for gold or palladium for platinum? Going to bed, will check back tomorrow. Thanks.

(Fri Mar 13 1998 23:27 - ID#30116)
Do we have a really free anything? I don't know about you, but I pay a sewer tax... Extract from that what you will. See, they really did find a way to tax your ... :- ) )

Yes, there are 'funny' things that happen in the markets everyday. Manipulation or happenstance? I think that I've finally learned that the idea is to be on the correct side of the trade, whatever that is.