Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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Lurker 777
(Sun Mar 15 1998 00:07 - ID#317247)
Good night Ted. I'm out of here!
Gooooooooooo Gold.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 00:07 - ID#240316)
More China Devaluation Talk
International Trader -- Barron's Online

Monday, March 16, 1998

Events in China Indicate Rumors Of Deal With U.S. May

Turn Out To Be True

For believers in financial

conspiracy theories, events in China last week offered some evidence that

one major rumor could turn out to be fact.On January 30, upon returning from a trip to Asia, Ian Harwood, London-based global economist for Dresdner Kleinwort Benson, flatly told

clients that China and the U.S. have cut a critical deal. It will benefit

not only both parties but also the entire global financial system. ( On Friday, Harwood said this arrangement was "suggested" to him in Washington and "confirmed" in Beijing, but he can't name names. ) Specifically, China, which late in 1994 began a round of competitive

currency devaluations in the Asia-Pacific region, would refrain from debasing the renminbi again. Thus would be avoided a second downward spiral, one that likely would hurt all financial markets.In return, Washington would do two things. First, it would help China fulfill one of its fondest wishes -- to join the World Trade Organization ( successor to GATT ) and thereby upgrade its status among global economic powers. Second, the U.S. would pressure Japan finally to resolve its

banking crisis and to stimulate domestic demand. In 1997, Harwood noted, 25% of China's exports went to Japan.Jump to last Monday. Shi Guangsheng, China's vice minister for foreign trade and economic cooperation, said in Beijing that the impact of Asian economic and financial turmoil on China's trade "cannot be underestimated." He added that China will seek new export markets in the U.S. and Europe, but ruled out a devaluation.Also last Monday, Long Yongtu, China's chief WTO negotiator, clearly linked China's WTO bid with its currency decision. He said Beijing wants to accelerate discussions on its entry into WTO. Further, he hoped Beijing's pledge not to devalue would enhance its image in the international community and contribute to its WTO entry, Kyodo news service reported. Whether this decision helps China's bid, Long noted, "will be determined by the [WTO] members' own attitudes." He went on to say that China's currency move likely will mean slower export and investment growth, but "we are prepared to pay a cost."Subsequently, Long reiterated China's previously stated demand that it be allowed to join WTO before Taiwan does, and that Taiwan must join as a Chinese territory, not as a sovereign nation.Geopolitics and private promises aside, Richard Fisher, deputy U.S. Trade Representative, in his first visit to China since being named to the post, last Wednesday criticized Beijing's latest proposals on industrial and agricultural tariffs as "inadequate." Again according to Kyodo News, he added: "We don't have a basis to assess their seriousness for proceeding toward WTO accession until we have firmly in mind, on a ine-by-line basis, what their proposals are for tariffs on industrial goods."As for Taiwan joining WTO before China, Fisher said that Taiwan, as a "separate customs territorial," is allowed to proceed with its WTO bid on its own merits, separate from China.When U.S. President Bill Clinton makes a state visit to Beijing, perhaps in late June, these issues undoubtedly will be discussed frankly with Chinese President Jiang Zemin.Meanwhile, Dresdner Kleinwort Benson's Harwood opines that "China wants to be taken responsibly, be seen as a good neighbor economically and as people fit to sit at the top table." He adds that not until midyear can China properly assess the damage to its economy by the continuing Asian crisis. In other words, not until well after the summit at the earliest is

China likely to unleash the dogs of devaluation.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 00:24 - ID#93199)
Fidelity Select Gold Charts
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )

John Disney__A
(Sun Mar 15 1998 00:25 - ID#24135)
Mr Tai .. the Flying Bomb
For Salty
The storm that destroyed Kublai Khan's fleet was
called the Divine Wind .. Kamizake .
The Japanese were to use the term subsequently in the
second World War .. hoping once again for saviour through
divine intervention via suicide pilots in flying bombs.
I actually knew a guy who was all signed up to die, but
the war ended before he took off.... he was named tai - san
.. Mr Tai. In a Kendo practice, he also had a big kendo stick
driven right through his left lung. Impaled .. you know ..
a rare event .. fortunately... for most of us.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 00:38 - ID#250121)
ANOTHER foody post

thanks for the story. One thing that occurs to me is the comparative longevity of the Japanese, due to miso soup, green tea and ginseng? Anyway, in a nation with no social welfare system to speak of, one historically prepares for retirement by siring ( madaming? ) lots of children.
More recently by buying stocks in companies that have responsible directors who do not pay dividends. Capital appreciation is the only consideration. As long as there is the semblance of capital maintenance, all will be well. When the panic starts in Japan it will be very extreme, and make the rush on Ponzi's offices look like a picnic in Hyde Park.

Divine windy

John Disney__A
(Sun Mar 15 1998 01:03 - ID#24135)
Kamizake = Kamikaze
For Salty
early in the am here .. all is backwards ..

Japanese is nasty at this hour ..

er .. what was that ??

Kamizake ... the flying fart

(Sun Mar 15 1998 01:03 - ID#210235)
Inflation deflation etc. Expect about 2 years of actual deflation before the statistics leak out which confirm it, in the US. The small basket of indicators used in the CPI are carefully controlled to present whatever is desirable to present. These are changed whenever they are out of line. In my experience, this has been to camouflage inflation. The PPI is also presented in a sector breakdown, which has already shown deflation in a few of its components last year.

Whatever happens, you won't hear it from the guvmnt. They will follow Herbert Hoover's axiom that their jobs, above all, are to bolster morale of the common man. They will be about as successful.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 01:04 - ID#250121)
ah ha--
Anyone watch Saturday night live and can confirm

Greemspam said:
"put all your money in equities" "this party will never end"
were greenspans last words on sat night live.

from avid.

cos it reminds me of:

"Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau." -- Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics, Yale University, 1929.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 01:36 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Hi, brother John,

PL appears to be doing just fine,
but we got snow again. No other
local news at this hour...Looking at
April, should be rock-n-roll month
for PM's. Storing ammo for shooting
season.Switched to Napoleon brandy
recently, but my camel says it stinks
and demands satisfaction. Bought some
German beer - Beck's Dark for camel
and now this camel speaks only German
to me and refuses to cooperate...
What to do, brother?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 02:38 - ID#342376)
Head for the Hills!
Just read the latest issue of the Privateer. Never mind the approaching "storm clouds" on the horizon, it reads more like a nuclear fallout!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 03:20 - ID#183109)
Easy on the bottle John.
John, thanks for the clarification. For a moment there I thought you'd been into the sauce a little too heavy tonight...speaking of the KAMISAKE...."divine liquor". : )

All's still quite on the Japanese home front here. Anyone that read Bankrupcy 1995 will remember that things have the potential to unravel very quickly. All this talk of storm clouds reminds me of the day I was outside when Mount St. Helens blew up. It was neat to see the heard mentality in action. Lets hope we see the same behavior when it comes to jumping on the PM bandwagon.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 04:25 - ID#228283)

(Sun Mar 15 1998 04:29 - ID#228283)

the truth is out there. Good night from the chilly Midwest.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 05:07 - ID#252127)

I don't think that the presidential scandals will have a major effect on the gold price or the stock markets; heck it makes for interesting reading and keeps minds off important matters.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 06:03 - ID#26793)
FLASH! Greece devalues drachma by 14%

(Sun Mar 15 1998 06:06 - ID#26793)
FLASH! Ireland devalues the punt by 3%

(Sun Mar 15 1998 06:11 - ID#26793)
Suharto gives his daughter and his fishing buddy cabinet posts.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 06:16 - ID#26793)
Hashimoto says IMF needs to be more flexible on Indonesian bailout

(Sun Mar 15 1998 06:22 - ID#153102)
Ladies and Gentlemen, kind friends in this cyberspace most generously provided by Bart, your posts of affirmation recently addressed to me touched my heart and spirit. Some also stung my conscience with the justness of their accusations at the manner of my making departure. I should have said more before withdrawing, and now I will. I will return when I can. My personal situation calls me away, far away. But, first, this.

I said John Disney is wise. He is. The Beast is swelled up and arrogant with power and dangerous and we are each but one alone when it comes for us. I said an American having any knowledge or awareness was safer overseas today than in America. This is true, too. For the Beast fears the voices of those breaking spells, those harkening to the inborn tribal urges that bind us in the ancestral, tacit law of liberty, son to father, daughter to mother, to the organic law of liberty, even unto origins in time out of mind. The Beast fears those voices unravelling the tangle of legal and historical record, crying out recognition, discovery, and confirmation one to another on the way to resume the path of our destiny, to recover our inheritance. So, the Beast casts about for a remedy, And finds the thing that so many think is not, "Conspiracy, the darling of the prosecutor's nursery" [Judge Learned Hand]

"A conspiracy is an agreement to do an illegal act. It is not
a signed contract, or even a handshake, but can be "tacit" -
- a wink and a nod, an unspoken understanding. It can mean
nothing more than holding military training one day and
discussing the Russian tanks at an airbase the next.
Evidence can be direct or circumstantial, and a jury can
infer whatever the government wants them to believe.

One person can think about and plan any illegal act. He can
have diagrams of buildings, maps to the prospective victims'
houses, but without a substantive step ( attempt ) or request
for help ( solicitation ) , there is no crime. ( Though if
someone else does it, the diagrams and maps mean trouble. )

***For two people together, a wishful dream is a conspiracy.
Two people in the library reading about explosives could be
charged with conspiracy to manufacture explosives. This
violates the first amendment, but Hizzoner will not agree...

***It is illegal to defend yourself against a federal official
who is acting within the scope of his job. He can violate
regulations and the constitution, but if he is on duty, you
do not have the right to strike back. Citizens are expected
to be arrested and fight it out later in court.

This is horrible, but it is the law...

***The combination of these laws means that getting together to
prepare to defend against federal officials is a conspiracy... The public is so poorly educated that jurors are easily terrified.

***Intent to start "a war with the federal government" can been
"proven" by video tapes, books, speeches, radio shows. [One group was] indicted based on a video that one of them produced."

Now, if conspiracy is the darling of the prosecutor's nursery, then the midwife is the "confidential informant". Referring to conspiracy convictions, "Every case was made by a government agent who instigated conduct that supported federal conspiracy charges."

All of the above quoted was written by Nancy Lord, defense lawyer to persons accused and convicted of conspiracy, prior to the passage of the "domestic terorism" act, which created whole new categories of illegal conducts.

Now, there are newcomer posters to this forum who have instigated. You can read the posts and find them. So, I have a reasonable suspicion that this site has been infested with "confidential informants". While you sleep, they creep and a conviction of conspiracy on the internet would be a feather. Or, maybe they are just recon agents, spotters. Come into my traps, said the spiders.

Nancy Lord's counsel: "a group must agree never to condone or participate in illegal activity and to exclude anyone who tries to instigate it."

Every decent, upstanding poster to this site owes it to Bart to help him enforce this as a rule.

This, but not this exclusively, also came to my attention.

Jewboy__A ( @ Ted ) ID#188235:
I never stopped being myself I have two identities I am proud of 1 being
jewish 2 having been a soldier

Think for a moment of all the identities that this poster did not include in the list of those he is proud of.

Date: Thu Mar 12 1998 15:25
Jewboy__A ( Farfel ) ID#188235:
Sorry to disappoint you but I am now too old,too fat,and too sick for
this here now modern Army thank the Lord!!!! Ted,thanks for the support
but I have asked Bart to change the handle be patient, it served its

Think for a moment about "thank the Lord!!!!"

Now, some have posted here that the CFR and other internationalists are simply businessmen. My question is, what sort of businessmen ? For the Mafia say they are just businessmen. Is the shared hallmark of both groups the making of offers you cannot refuse ? Is the use of terror for selfish, not honest, mutual, commerce their common denominator ? Where is the distinction between an international bank with legal overt and covert military power at its disposal and a loan shark with a thug on his payroll ?
Isn't the protection racket the same extortion racket regardless of who takes the money ?

What I am going to say now will be difficult for some to accept. But, it is just the truth. America was founded by white, Christian people for themselves. This is not unsupported opinion. The documentary evidence is overwhelming. Look for yourself. It ranges from judicial opinion of the U.S. and State Supreme Curts, to passages in the U.S. and State Constitutions, to all immigration Acts except those most recent. So, one might well wonder whether W.B. Griffith's film "Birth of a Nation" might not have been better titled "Death of a Nation." Would any dispute that we are now recast into a distracted, insecure, hyphenated nation of politically correct X-Americans ? Is the life, liberty, or property of any safe and secure ?

Friends, the roots of all trees of liberty worldwide trace back to England and the common law. In times past, many an immigrant from many a land came to these shores and studied the roots of the tree, mastered the knowledge, became a possessed possessor of it, and nourished those roots. And it was handed down from generation to generation. It was our basis for continuity. But, our basis is gone in the institutions and growing dimmer among the people. George Fletcher at Columbia Law now teaches that Lincoln enunciated a new Constitution, a Constitution subsequently built on the 14th Amendment, a martial law Constitution for a market democracy of the people, by the people, for the people. It's a widespread sub silentio doctrine in academia and government that he has boldly stated. This is the ultimate consequence of being recast into a hyphenated nation.

You see, there is but one kind of law by which the slate can be wiped clean, the past erased and said to be no more, and that is the emergency law of the commander, ratified by a Congressional bill of indemnity, and given legal sanction by a Supreme Court, in a phrase, martial law. Between us and the federal government and its political subdivisions since 1860 is the law of nations, international law, that has displaced our organic law, the law of our inheritance. A free nation governed by international law is a contradiction in terms, a frankenstein, contrary to all reason, law, and nature. There is but one moral justification to authorize the use of force, which is what law and government are, and that is for self-defense, of the individual and the nation. As no person has a moral basis to aggress, neither has any government, domestically or otherwise. But, martial law government is institutionalized aggression, organized crime. The road to serfdom and to hell have been paved with good intentions. Can a second nation be born in liberty on principles different than the original ? It's a question to ponder.

As Donald said. the Declaration of Independence was a conspiracy in 1776. Even though it is a statute in our organic law, are we now so cut off from that law by recent martial law that it would again be a conspiracy to draft it ? We have a natural right to self-defense, but the legal right to it we once had in the common law is inaccessible to most. We have a natural right to cultural self-preservation, but no protection of the exercise of it. We have a natural right to a government, a law and a constitution, of our own choosing, but the legal right we once had to it is denied and disparaged. We have a constitutional provision for honest money of gold and silver coin, but no honest money. We know now what has been lost. What has been the net gain ?

I have given some thought to how a psychic dictatorship is perpetuated and have concluded it is accomplished primarily through the education process. It is by means of exams that reveal which pupils have internalized the correct answer and which have not that those who can be trusted with official and semi-official position are distinguished from those who cannot. The fact the most studious are usually those most rewarded gives an appearance of merit reward. This is not to say that subject matter expertise is immaterial. It is not. But, neither is learning subject matter the whole purpose of the process. My conclusion is that the culture of self-government requires the separation of school and state.

We are going to bootstrap ourselves back into freedom on this continent by starting one by one on the road of participation in self-education and teaching others at some expense to personal pleasure and profit or the lights are going out. The mightiest river begins in drops of rain. Look inward. Condense yourself to what you treasure most.

Farewell for now.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 06:30 - ID#233199)
Good - glad you'll be around....

(Sun Mar 15 1998 06:34 - ID#300202)
Welcome back!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 06:36 - ID#233199)

If education is number one then mass media propoganda is number two.

Thanks again for the post.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 06:40 - ID#248180)
@ Mozel - Here - Here!
Mozel will you be in Indonesia?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 06:57 - ID#411331)
Thank you for your thoughts. Best wishes.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 07:19 - ID#31868)
No matter where you go, the thoughts of many here are always with you, be well until we hear from you again. You shall be missed during your journey.


(Sun Mar 15 1998 08:00 - ID#341189)
Although my views of history differ from yours in several details, i believe you are sadly correct that freedom is in grave danger from a cultural view that values government's "gifts" to be achieved by submission over individual responsibility and freedom. Your Christian white man statement makes me shudder. It's enough to describe the founding fathers as people who would not submit to a government which demanded compliance without consent. You seem to also be such a person. Safe journey.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 08:02 - ID#227290)
Irish revaluation
Donald 6:06 AM - The Punt was revalued upward 3%, not devalued. The Irish economy is now the strongest in Europe with a highly educated work force and wage rate that are not extreme. Much US Electronic business being done there.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 08:07 - ID#31868)
Pro Veritas
Good beer will do that for a country!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 08:16 - ID#26793)
@Pro Veritas
Thank you so much for the correction. I did the math and just assumed that everyone devalues these days. This must be why Irish Spring smells so good.

Mr. Mick
(Sun Mar 15 1998 08:23 - ID#345321)
Good morning, all.............
best wishes to Mozel.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 08:25 - ID#398105)
Some Exploration and Mining Companies are doing it hard.....

G'Day from Kalgoorlie,

I have been out and about, very busy. Thank the "Wee Man" above that I am not a geologist with 5 to 10 years experience - a large number of them are finding it hard !

Western Mining Resources this week retrenched 78 Geologists, mostly from exploration. The company focus appears to being orientated towards contract mining in the short term.

Other junior exploration and mining companies are finding it a wee bit hard going.

However, for those who are lean and very mean, projects are there for the picking - CASH is King.

A rise in the gold price to say US$325 would "clear the air", and set a new foundation for the industry. Time will tell ?! I still, however, tend to think that the gold price will oscillate between US$290 and US$320 between now and end-June 1998.

LGB - interesting to see that you and Cherokee are doing a bit of "background" research ? I am most likely wrong, but I have this mental image of you being a crew-cut, cigar smoking, you can't be ?!!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 08:30 - ID#26793)
@Pro Veritas: many others got the Irish revaluation wrong. Big surprise on direction.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 08:40 - ID#348127)

Mozel I have never seen this side of you. Have you been visited as of late, or stumbled across some enlightening information? Best wishes on your journey.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 08:45 - ID#26793)
This quote from Irish Exporters' Association really irks me.
Exporters' Association chief executive Colum MacDonnell was quoted as saying the government
had ``given away a competitive advantage permanently.''

As though money is something that they have a right to play with for for their personal competitive advantage. When will business people learn to compete by building better quality products? Money is to important to be tampered with by any one group. This is why we can't use paper as money. You can't tamper with gold of fixed purity.

Mr. Mick
(Sun Mar 15 1998 08:46 - ID#345321)
JTF - sorry so late in responding to you 0906 yesterday............
To answer ( IMHO ) your questions in a nutshell: AG must raise interest rates to defend the dollar, but exactly when is anyone's guess - it will depend on the "confidence" level of investors with regard to the dollar. I see that the dollar goes up and down daily with regard to other currencies, yen and D-marks mainly, but no clear trend at this point.
How does one inflate money supply without inflating the equity markets?
Impossible. Cannot be done.
You are right, AG has a tough job. But I'll bet his metal holdings are somewhere he thinks is safe.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 08:59 - ID#411112)
Mozel;there are folks out there doing things Dr Eugene Schroder of Colorado

has a bill now before the Senate,to repel the war powers act of 1933,which you know gives the short shift to the constitution,I spend 3 hours a day on the air talking about this and other things ( ) I do not back down or am affraid of big brother,had the people of Rhodesia/South Africa had a voice or a forum like this it would not be a communist entity today ,go in peace my brother but never let the fire in your belly or Freedom in your heart deminish

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:08 - ID#288369)
May all of the gods bless you and those of you. Thank you for your steadfast enlightenment. Studio.R

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:14 - ID#341189)
All & SDRer in particular -Newly updated page on the euro - ton of info

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:14 - ID#330175)
Mozel...................................and ..........Studio.R
Mozel: Pretty 'heavy sh!t' for early on a Sunday morn but good luck bro!!---STUDio.R--let's kick some ass today~~~~~*go gold*---mornin Caper!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:16 - ID#257136)
robnoel. What about this Dr. Schroder?
Are you in Colorado or Rhodesia? ( ooops!!! ) zim-babel?
Have a friend who spent a long time in Rhodesia. He left it when it became zim-babel and moved to Arkansas.
Looks to me as if he left the frying pan for the stewpot.
As I did wwith mozel, ( attempted email discussion ) , I will put my address on line for the sake of politicaL DISCUSSION. aIN'T FAIR TO bART'S cO. OR THE REST OF THE POSTERS WHO PROBABLY NOT INTERESTED IN WHAT i MAY HAVE TO SAY to keep it on line. Concerns ol' U.S.ofA. and fed gbmnt.
BTW, am a native of Colorado and have a few acquaintances in the state and rest of intermountain area.
Forgive the caps. Lousy typist.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:17 - ID#330175)
Novice & Co.
Will get back @ ya when I return from my ( ugh ) --'daily walk'--gotta clear out the cobwebs etc etc etc...

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:23 - ID#330175)
My tenant ( and friend ( gotta get that 'plug' ) in Vermont is a LURKER here ( LURKING ) !!---Ed: Come out and be a 'man'~~~~~~I know yer there!!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:25 - ID#398105) for YOU !

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:25 - ID#288369)
@T#1 and Teddo....
Dear T#1....If you gauge the tanker this morning, you will learn that one gallon of ethyl tequila is missing. I will repay you when I am better able....I assure you. Gorge' is a gullible kind with him.

Teddo, Now that mozel has convinced me that spies lurk in our ranks, I must say...."Janet Reno is one of the most gorgeous women in the whole world...she turns me on." So there you have it!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:34 - ID#330175)
Studio.R & Janet Reno
I'd like to $#*&%^$ her!!!---to 'the walk-a-thon'~~~~~

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:45 - ID#287312)
The same evidence that will indict Webb Hubbell will indict Hillary.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:46 - ID#348169)
It's a slow Sunday morning so I will break the rules and engage in needleess chit-chat along with some of the others suffering from hangovers around here. What a night for good old Canadian hockey eh Ted? Leafs win AND Montreal takes the Devils 4-2! Maybe, just maybe, one of the Canadian teams can bring back Lord Stanle's Silver Cup this year?
BTW - Haven't you moved yet? How's the family, excited about moving back to where you belong? ie. 'Land of Brave and FREE?' ( BTW - Watch out for those Revenuer's - You've been too flagrant about your bad habits 'round here' and some seem to think that the 'merican goobermint has singled out this site as one of radicals worse than the Wackoos! Do you think the dogs will notice the difference in tax rules, political debates, lack of Canadian Geese French habitants, Ice Storms and electrically heated homes etc.? ;- )
AAR - Good Luck in your new ( old ) home.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:48 - ID#411112)
mapelman Ted, the cry in the 60's was "question authority" it's not a VRWC,

we ask questions to seek the truth,and if you look at "the war powers act" in effect for the last 64 years,questions abound,mozel is right, we are all fooling ourselves,the best advice research it yourself...and yes Ted it is "heavy shit"

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:53 - ID#398105)
Buddie, can you spare me a dime............

I have asked this before, but got no reply......

Given the daily increase in the US National Debt, how does this compare with the ( current ) daily increase in the dollar value of the US markets ?

03/12/1998 $5,529,750,398,747.62

Month Amount

03/11/1998 $5,528,971,446,018.69
03/10/1998 $5,525,631,040,092.91
03/09/1998 $5,523,019,454,633.25
03/06/1998 $5,525,824,113,483.61
03/05/1998 $5,528,529,698,719.50
03/04/1998 $5,529,409,747,928.18
03/03/1998 $5,528,586,832,076.70
03/02/1998 $5,514,791,303,162.77

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:55 - ID#398105)
G' to go and find some gold............

(Sun Mar 15 1998 09:59 - ID#300202)
With Mozel gone for a bit-Enlightenment is up to you. Look forward to
your guidance of the lost souls. When ya departin' Ted? Guess I'll be
the Lone Caper. Will have to direct weather reports down to ur new
island. Power out in Glace Bay-Sand Lake pumping station down-no water.
Other than that-things are great. In the interim-still seeking encouraging words on this great site in an effort to recoup my downtrodden gold investments.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 10:00 - ID#411112)
aj sent u EMail don't know if you got it using WEBTV for the first time

(Sun Mar 15 1998 10:01 - ID#341189)
German watchdog group says Europe not ready for EMU

The Hermit
(Sun Mar 15 1998 10:06 - ID#374232)
@ mozel - your post of 6:22
Welcome back! Your words are much appreciated. Thank you. Post again when you can sir!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 10:10 - ID#342397)
Insightful, perceptive, and eloquent as ever. And speaking truth.

Safe Journey

(Sun Mar 15 1998 10:26 - ID#348169)
Re: - Your Sat. Morning 00:08. Your welcome. Let me repeat my late Friday post here so that maybe some other commodity comments will come out today! BTW- I took the liberty of posting your message to Mozel on Kitco 2 as it is something we should all keep in mind! Here's me late Friday commodity comment: "Date: Fri Mar 13 1998 23:55
Mooney* ( @Eldo ) ID#348169:
Copyright  1998 Mooney*/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Eldo - I was speaking strictly long-term on
cocoa - not day to day - so that's up to
you. Yeah, I spoke with EB last week and
did up a list. Best call was doing a
butterfly on oil at 16.00. Actually
predicted TB's topping out at 124 - but
was too chicken to state publicly - so
doesn't count. S+P is now TOTALLY
ridiculous. Looks like Canadian Looney
Twoonie fiat lucre has put in its low
recently. ***Gold has got to break one
way or other soon***, would be ready to
jump on right now on a break either way,
( My big buy stop above $300. and sell
stop below $287. ) . Some comments
earlier here tonight were great ..."
ELDO - Your comeback that a move down to $287. might very quickly reverse is very pertinent. Short term traders, of course, would be aware of such a possibility and might have a buy-back in at just over $290., whereas long-term position players who have recently been entering the market would probably not even have a stop in anywhere above $250-65.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 10:32 - ID#286230)
Repatriate in Haste-- Repent in New England
Free Brain Surgery, World Wide Respect--and now this::--

(Sun Mar 15 1998 10:44 - ID#348169)
Ted - Is Selby trying to give you a message that you might still find useful purpose in Canada as a new-breed of Farmer for the new millenium?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 10:45 - ID#251166)
Really glad you're back. You don't know me ( nobody here does ) because I'm one of the new guys you might be referring to in your insightful ( *incite*-ful ) diatribe. Don't really have any way to prove here that I'm not a spy without pulling down my shorts. But if it's any consolation, there's nothing we do or say here that can't be traced. ( Hopefully all the smart computer network geeks who could pull off such a trace are too busy working on Y2K stuff. )

Anyway, I can understand your need to get away if only from a psychic point of view. In the short few weeks I lurked before posting I had, with many others, been ground through intense emotional extremes with the shifts in height and breadth of topic. The conclusion I arrived at even before I first keyed into Kitco1 is that the object of our discussions -- gold and such -- are really just distillations of what we care about most deeply, the welfare of ourselves and loved ones. All this discussion is a release -- a defining of our rationale, if you will -- for the passionate decisions we have made by which we'll individually thrive or die.

We've each got a lot on the line. And to those of you who've been in PMs this past year -- watching daily, hourly maybe -- my hat's off to you. I think the downward volitility of gold especially would have sent me to the nut farm by now.

As farfel says, "It's here." We're watching, thread by thread, this thing rip apart at the seems. In the macro view if it all comes down in the space of a few years, the axe has fallen quickly. But in the micro view, watching moment by moment, we see it's here. It's just not on top of us yet.

Mozel, the level of intensity you've maintained for as far back as I or anyone may read of past posts -- I don't know how you did it, man. You must be made of steel. And neither I nor anyone else can blame you for needing to get away from it for awhile.

Looking forward to your return.


Dean W. Jones

Fresno, California, USA

( Spies: I'm in the book. )

Bully Beef
(Sun Mar 15 1998 10:54 - ID#259282)
Hope you bought gold on Fri. or before...
Maybe ANOTHER is PAULA JONES. A secret tipper like Deep Throat in the Watergate scandal. I guess Northerners don't like them South'n Liberals have'n fun. Who would have thought a little indescretion would have brought down the White House. ( Maybe it won't ) Anyhow weinnygate could effect the markets after the story tonite on 60 Min. about how Harmoniker players like more Sax.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 10:57 - ID#26669)
Lurker 777 some thoughts
I'd take issue with your industry being the most 'liberal' in America. Suspect that mine, the behavioral science and behavioral health field contains just as many, at least in percentages even if not in absolute numbers.

Not your fault, of course that you have employee problems in this area. You don't control what they read and hear. But I think even with his tongue in cheek appraisal of the situation Moses was right about the influence that beauticians hold over American public opinion. How to remedy that is a different matter.

What the conservatives have been doing for too long is trying to convince people via higher cognative and rational processes but the liberals have been appealing to humor, wit, sympathy, low intensity high volume mass media presentations.

So there evolves two styles...that of the conservative, who has all the facts of history and civilization going back 6000 years at his/her fingertips and the liberal who has merely prejudice and theory, but says moving little bits and pieces of b.s. so long that people start to believe it. I'd be willing to suspect that your beauticians get bombarded with little bitesized pieces of radical leftism from their union, their trade mags, the t.v. talk shows they watch, the Rolling Stone and other mags they read for pleasure, et cetera...while you are trying to keep up with the business so they can keep their jobs.

Some few days ago I made the half serious comment that persons interested in the gold industry should start advertising for the masses, popularizing gold for all the inherently "wrong" fundamental reasons. ( Not because it is valuable, nor scarce nor a good buy, but because it advertises sexuality and youth. ) I think that the first person who seriously figures out how to REALLY sell moderate priced gold body ornamentation to the 15-35 age group the same way they sell over priced made-in-red-china jeans and made-in-indonesia basketball shoes will be looked upon as a genius, with a thousand other people scratching their heads and saying "why didn't I think of that?"

(Sun Mar 15 1998 11:08 - ID#222231)
mozel and To the Goldbugs, wherever you are
You sir are a true PATRIOT! Great post.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 11:11 - ID#234218)
@ Mozel
What constitutes a life well spent? Love and admiration form our fellow men is all that anyone can ask.

Will Rogers

Welcome back

(Sun Mar 15 1998 11:20 - ID#222231)
Go to Top Stories, Jones Depositions, Free Cartoons, Human Nature, PROBLEMS OF THE RICH?

This is what all goldbugs will get in the not to far future, I HOPE!

Bully Beef
(Sun Mar 15 1998 11:34 - ID#259282)
I'm not American but I can't believe that there was only one comment that was
negative to mozels statment that the US is a white nation.Funny thing is all the immigrants I know are hard working contributers to society. I must be one of those LIBERAL SUBVERSIVES. mozel there is no turning back the tide. There never was white power only power. I live in a politically correct nation. Thats where this internet sight is located. It's an embarrassment to read white power stuff so lets all drop it.Conspiracy yes but racism no.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 11:42 - ID#26793)
@Lurker777, 223
Liberals can be goldbugs too. On many issues liberals and conservatives come full circle and meet each other at the extreme ends of the spectrum. The founding fathers were a good mix of liberals and conservatives and they agreed on gold. I read something in print recently about some of the founding fathers being as lusty as Bill Clinton is reported to be. The issue was over impeachment and whether or not "high crimes and misdemeanors" included sexual transgressions. The founding fathers would have laughed over the thought that it did in the opinion of the writer.

The Hermit
(Sun Mar 15 1998 11:43 - ID#369247)
@ jonesy
Thank you sir, for your post of 10:45 and your most apt description of the atmosphere at Kitco. The emotional extremes are at times very intense indeed! I too am in awe of mozel and wonder how he maintains his level of intensity.

We who lurk here to gain knowledge are truly in the company of great men and women. For me it is at times very difficult to suppress the urge to join in the posting, especially at intense moments, however it is at those times that I am most humbled by the level of expertise displayed by the posters here at Kitco. The "height and breadth of topic" here is truly amazing.

It is sad to know that the world is as mozel describes. Hopefully our faith in God will help us and our loved ones in these troubled times.

Thank you again, kind Sir!


The Hermit


Bart, thank you again for providing this site!

Mike Sheller
(Sun Mar 15 1998 11:44 - ID#347447)
You get time off for good behavioral science. I have been in the "intuitive behavioral sciences" ( advertising, marketing, promotion ) for more years than I care to count. I am also, tangentially, in the gold mining business with a public company. Your comment re promotion of gold on a mass marketing level was always taken by me as one of those wonderful "half-in-jest" comments that is the vital key to true change, innovation, and effective vision. I don't get around much at Kitco anymore, as corporate duties have been absorbing much time, but every time I catch your suggestion along these lines I will step forward and not only second your motion, and applaud its vitality, but reassure you that "we" are working on it, we are working on it. Just hope resources are forthcoming and we're not too late. Great thinking, 223!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 11:45 - ID#238422)
Mozel, your post left me with a strange feeling. It was
kind of good cop/bad cop post. You are no doubt highly
educated, knowledgable but a bit of a strange person...
I didn't get it...Well, I got to know my limitations...

(Sun Mar 15 1998 11:54 - ID#408280)
Silver going up again?

NEW YORK ( CNNfn ) - Billionaire investor Warren
Buffett told shareholders Saturday there are fewer
bargains in the market today and rising stock prices
have eroded the margin of safety for investors.
In his annual letter to shareholders, Buffett,
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Berkshire
Hathaway Inc., also detailed three non-conventional
investments he had made last year -- oil, silver and
zero coupon treasury securities -- some of which have
some Wall Street experts scratching their heads.
Buffett, one of the world's richest men, has
continually outperformed the market by investing for
the long term in good companies with solid growth
potential. However, he said it is getting harder and
harder to find companies that fit that criteria in the
current market environment.
"In the summer of 1979, when equities looked cheap
to me, I wrote a 'Forbes' article entitled 'You pay a
very high price in the stock market for a cheery
consensus.' At that time skepticism and disappointment
prevailed, and my point was that investors should be
glad of the fact, since pessimism drives down prices to
truly attractive levels," Buffet said in his letter
( )
, which was posted on Berkshire's Web page.
"Now, however, we have a very cheery consensus.
That does not necessarily mean this is the wrong time
to buy stocks: Corporate America is now earning far
more money than it was just a few years ago, and in the
presence of lower interest rates, every dollar of
earnings becomes more valuable. Today's price levels,
though, have materially eroded the "margin of safety"
that Ben Graham identified as the cornerstone of
intelligent investing."
Hugh Johnson, chief investment officer for First
Albany, said investors are likely to react "gingerly" on
Monday to Buffett's cautious statements about rising
stock prices and his big gamble on Treasurys.
"I think everybody knew this before, but this kind of
takes it from the back page and moves it to the front
page," Johnson told CNNfn. "He certainly carries a lot
of weight in the market."
In his letter this year, Buffett said prices are high for
both businesses and stocks -- and while that does not
mean either will fall -- the prospective return on
investments is likely to be less. With regard to
Berkshire, Buffett was a little more specific, telling
shareholders the company's rate of progress in both
investments and operations is "certain" to fall in the
"For anyone deploying capital, nothing recedes like
success." he said.
During 1997, Berkshire's investments rose 33.5
percent, and operating earnings surged 70.3 percent.
Buffett said operating earnings were bolstered last year
by better-than-expected performance in Berkshire's
insurance business, a trend that he said would probably
not continue in 1998.
While Buffett's letter included many of the "Middle
America" type explanations about his investing
philosophy, his description on non-conventional
investments, particularly the Treasury securities, raised
a few eyebrows.
At the end of last year, Berkshire's largest
non-traditional position was $4.6 billion of long-term
zero-coupon obligations of the U.S. Treasury. These
securities pay no interest but their market prices move
rapidly when interest rates change. If rates rise,
holders lose heavily with zero coupons, but if rates
fall, holders make huge gains. Since rates fell in 1997,
Berkshire ended the year with an unrealized pre-tax
gain of nearly $600 million.
However, Johnson said the move is risky if interest
rates rise this year, particularly if economic growth
continues to forge ahead.
"$4.6 billion in zero coupons is a huge commitment,"
Johnson said. "At least at this juncture, I'm not sure he's
made a good choice."
In his letter, Buffett acknowledged the move poses
some risks.
"In purchasing zeros, rather than staying with
cash-equivalents, we risk looking very foolish: A
macro-based commitment such as this never has
anything close to a 100 percent probability of being
"However, you pay ( Berkshire Vice Chairman
Charlie Munger ) and me to use our best judgment -- not
to avoid embarrassment -- and we will occasionally
make an unconventional move when we believe the
odds favor it. Try to think kindly of us when we blow
one. Along with President Clinton, we will be feeling
your pain: The Munger family has more than 90 percent
of its net worth in Berkshire and the Buffetts more than
99 percent."
Buffett said Berkshire also chose to invest in
derivative contracts for 14 million barrels of oil and to
take a position in the silver market.
Last year, Berkshire purchased 111.2 million ounces
of silver, producing a pretax gain of nearly $95 million
in 1997. Berkshire made an additional purchase in
1998 that brought the total silver holdings to 129.7
million ounces. News of the purchase sent silver prices
rising earlier this year as word spread that Berkshire
controlled nearly one-fifth of the world's supply of
In a letter to shareholders last month, Buffett said he
decided last summer that higher silver prices would be
needed in light of shrinking inventories and he has no
current plans for additional purchase or sale of silver.
Berkshire's major stock holdings remained virtually
unchanged in 1997, but Buffett said he significantly
reduced a few holdings that were below the $750
million threshold in line with modest changes in
Berkshire's stock to bond ratio. He did not identify the
firms below the $750 million threshold but he said
Berkshire plans to continue to make changes in its bond
to stock ratio in 1998.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 11:55 - ID#411112)
Donald interesting thing on the MAI issue both extremes if you will have come together

Canada is leading on this front,US is following,it's slow because not many are aware of it yet,besides political partys are like sports teams,even if your team sucks you still root for it

Mike Sheller
(Sun Mar 15 1998 12:02 - ID#347447)
Ode to Kitco
The beauty of kitco is the untrammelled freedom and far ranging vision of its participants. From recipes to conspiracy theories, from daily market fluctuations of pennies, to cosmic cycles of ages and beyond. All centered around the topic of gold. If anyone doubts the occult and metaphysical centrality of the yellow metal to the thoughts and concerns of mankind, let them visit kitco for a day, an hour, and get a taste of it. One cannot limit the discussion at kitco to gold in and of itself. The creativity and intelligence of the kitco krowd can find many more uses for this wonderful commodity than industry and finance combined. One cannot fault any kitco kontributor, no matter how "flaky" or "far out," for one man's flakiness is another's crust, and possibly a soggy crust to boot. Perhaps the truth is that ALL is TRUE and ALL is a LIE, and somewhere in the changing fluxtaposition of these extremes that exist eternally side by side, reality is seamlessly manufactured. It is the most perfect reality imagineable, for it is what IS, yet we all perceive it from our own eyes. It being the only perception we have, we need the voices of others, adamant in their own darkness, to cast a little more light on our own. We all know the story of the blind men and the elephant. The great pachyderm was paraded thru the village one day, and a group of blind men were led out into the street to catch their first "glimpse" of this storied beast. Touching its massive side, the first blind man exclaimed "The elephant is like a great wall!." Encircled by the playful trunk, the second ventured "the elephant is like a huge serpent!" Hugging a thick foreleg, the third blind man offered "The elephant is like a tree!" You are all wrong, shouted the fourth and final blind man, standing beside a great ear, "the elephant," he smiled in the gentle breeze the moving ear provided, "is like a great fan!"

As I am of kitco.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 12:05 - ID#298259)
@MOZEL and aurator
Mozel: May God and Liberty be with you on your journey...just hurry back to us.

Aurator has stated to me...We will make a "man" outa you yet. Sat 18:32

Aurator: Well, from iron ovaries to balls of steel...I'm ready!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 12:10 - ID#390249)
Mozel - Racism
Bully Beef - I'm with you. Bart - racism should not be tolerated on this board. The purpose of this forum is to discuss gold - white power talk has no place here and is offensive.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 12:18 - ID#258129)
Please, help me with English
Here is the quote: "America was founded by white, Christian people for themselves." Question: what is the right English word to describe the author?

Big Time Tom
(Sun Mar 15 1998 12:28 - ID#212320)
Mozel's White Supremacy
Although this is supposedly a gold forum, I cannot resist commenting upon the following exert from Mozel's recent diatribe:

"What I am going to say now will be difficult for some to accept. But, it is just the truth. America was founded by white, Christian people for themselves. This is not unsupported opinion. The documentary evidence is

overwhelming. Look for yourself. It ranges from judicial opinion of the U.S. and State Supreme Courts, to passages in the U.S. and State Constitutions, to all immigration Acts except those most recent."

Mozel is right, or at least half right, about this. Despite its many virtues, America was indeed founded by white people for themselves. It was hardly founded for the purpose of treating all races, including the Native Americans from whom the continent was stolen and the black slaves packed in from Africa, justly. But the founding fathers also appealed to certain principles that they regarded as self-evident--e.g., "All men ( humans ) are created equal"--and these principles, as they came to be applied more and more consistently, fortunately undermined over time the very racist institutions that Mozel evidently wants to perpetuate.


(Sun Mar 15 1998 12:28 - ID#25588)
S&P, Gold, Silver
SnowBird - The sale of the June S&P on Friday at 1094 was a low risk entry point on that day only. The downside first target is 1065. This correction will probability end by Tuesday if not sooner and rally into Friday's expiration. The first objective of 1100 is very close and we're only in March. The worst case scenario for the S&P over the next month is sideways before moving higher. April Gold is moving sideways into a wedge/ triangle. A break below 290 would send it down to -280, a break above 302 would carry it to 315 - 320. On a monthly chart only a close above 320 would change the trend up. If the market doesn't break down by Tuesday I would begin to favor the move up to 302+. Silver May - I sold out of my short silver at the close Friday ( + 9 cents $450 a contract ) . Same triangle forming in silver as gold. A break and close under 600 will send it to 5.50; a close above 6.25 will send it up to 6.80.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 12:29 - ID#288369)

(Sun Mar 15 1998 12:39 - ID#253153)
Watch the XAU this week. If it breaks 79 on the upside, then Gold price will rise above it's previous high of $308 to about $315-320.

Big Time Tom
(Sun Mar 15 1998 12:45 - ID#212320)
Dumb spelling error
Ah me! That should be, of course, "excerpt," not "exert," though I did *exert* more energy than I should have in writing my post.


(Sun Mar 15 1998 12:48 - ID#238422)
Delphi, there is a freedom of speech. And it's is wonderful.
In regard to Mozel's quote - who knows? May be it was an
initial idea, we were not there at that time to know exactly.
Actually, Mozel's words are offensive, but he has right to
talk freely. I wish Mozel would not say these words. Sometimes
very educated and geneally smart people can be a liitle bit
out of the reality. It appears to be the case with
regard to his latest post.

Get a gun and feel comfortable. I got plenty of them, with
kind permission of Founding Fathers, and don't care a sh*t
about White Power or Nation of Islam. I'm realist...

(Sun Mar 15 1998 12:54 - ID#20767)
As a counter perspective to Mozel's brilliant 06:22 essay, I suggest a read of the following:

Which is a speech by the man who wrote:

"We the People are the rightful master of both congress and the courts - not to overthrow the Constitution, but to OVERTHROW THE MEN WHO PERVERT THE CONSTITUTION."


"Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"

Bully Beef
(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:01 - ID#259282)
In fact that may be from a legal perspective Big Time
But also understand that most people don't think about details .They think of the dream of AMERICA. For many people the dream of America is all that keeps them going while they survive horrible living conditions in other countries. It's a beautiful dream and worth preserving. Don't spoil it for them. The US and Canada are multicultural. It's a fact. Take advantage of it. There is only one way to stop it and that's another civil war. Why would any sane person want that? Perfect case of liberal mumbo jumbo....And buy gold .

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:03 - ID#31868)
Les MiserStudiorable'
My home is filled with things for others in need.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:06 - ID#342282)
This Sunday morning's specialty news
After these shows, I think we've got another siting of previously thought extinct "flu flu bird". As you may know, this bird is destined to go in a SPIN which is followed by ever decreasing concentric circles until it makes an anal entry.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:12 - ID#26793)
The word you are looking for may be "Realist" It means someone who is concerned with real things and practical matters rather than things that are imaginary or visionary.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:28 - ID#26793)
Kremlin silent on Yeltsin health problems

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:33 - ID#26793)
El Nino is causing deflation

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:37 - ID#344308)

want to know where the us stands relative to RUSSIA?


KISSINGER ON THE COUCH ----by retired admiral Chester Ward

then you can put to rest the questions of who the 'real superpowers' are.
you will not like it, i can guarantee it......the truth is usually quite
sharp, and painful....knowledge can help protect you from the truth.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:37 - ID#256326)
Watch out for the elephantine do-do while circumambulating the beast.;- ) btw, had the Saigon pork chops da udder nite. Yum!!!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:39 - ID#344308)

read on---
cut and paste if not working

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:39 - ID#31868)
My condolances on Pinceton.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:43 - ID#344308)

one more time..


(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:46 - ID#344308)

world gold council's stats----

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:47 - ID#411112)
the folks on the left always buy into this white supremacy crap'

when one debates preserving Western Culture,if there is another one let me know,the cries of racism always rears it head,get a western culture the answer I think so,whats the the way I'am a white african

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:50 - ID#344308)

and for lgb---

truth or consequences?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:52 - ID#210235)
You may be right that the founding fathers of the US were only concerned with the rights of men, and European Christian landholders at that. Let's not hold that against them. They still took a step in the right direction. Where we differ is that you would freeze the progress of history in the late 18th century. The rest of us have moved on. Jefferson, at least, would be with us. He was driven out of his own home into the woods by men who would lynch him for his too-progressive views.

As to your concerns of agent-provocateurs infiltrating this site to entrap us into a conspiracy. Well, you were the only one I ever suspected of that. Especially recently, when you were going on about horrid coin dealers refusing to conspire with you to avert sales taxes on purchases of gold. ( about the 11th of this month ) .

This is a public forum. Everything you say here is overheard. Count on it. Any two-bit hacker could figure out who you are. Your posts are too specious to be believed. Hope you enjoy your hiatus.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:53 - ID#258129)
@Donald_A, Sudio.R, oris
oris, 12:48: Freedom of speech is a wonderful human right. Just wondering, how many lurkers came out nowhere to report "we are with you" ( kto is who )
Studio.R, 12:29: your answer is not good enough - I am happened to be white too
Donald_A, 13:12: "By white, Christian people for themselves" sound like "Germany to Germans" to me. You know, what happened next.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:57 - ID#190411)
Prometheus, where are those ROOSTERS?
I want to get physical. My wife likes chicken art. Sorry,
I cannot add anything to the chicken puts and calls. I have eaten the puts.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 13:57 - ID#31868)
Does my heart good to see people worldwide buying that relic gold in record numbers.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:00 - ID#286230)
Freedom of Speach, Freedom of thought, Freedom of Movement --are where you find them.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:04 - ID#348127)
Gave Up-Had IT-Throwing In The Towel

Yes thats right, while I am not abandoning my entire gold position, I am going to decrease it substantialy. I made this comment last week that the only thing that will stop this run away BULL on the street is TIME. Many events have occured in the last year or two that should have atleast staggered the old Bull. Nothing has had a lasting effect. There is a reason for building this economy up to such a high level and I think many of us know it. Does the old saying THE BIGGER HE IS THE HARDER HE FALLS mean anything. Anyway to get to the point - This game could go on for years what with the PPT ( plunge protection team ) and all of the spin Dr. in place. It has finally occured to me why not make some of this easy money for myself. And thats what I plan to do-sit and wait for the next correction and then gobble up some tech stocks and ride the wave on the DOWS surge to 10,000.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:06 - ID#266105)

Frustrated no more!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:09 - ID#344308)

bye bye mapleman....

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:19 - ID#258129)
Expected EURO exchange rates
EUR/DEM = 1.95
EUR/GBP = 0.72
EUR/FFR =6.54
EUR/ITL = 1929
EUR/NLG = 2.20
EUR/BEF = 40.19
EUR/LUF = 40.19
EUR/DKK = 7.42
EUR/IEP = 0.81
EUR/GRD = 341.0
EUR/ESP = 165.8
EUR/PTE = 199.8
EUR/ATS = 13.71
EUR/SEK = 8.44
EUR/FIM = 5.92
EUR/USD = 1.15
Figures for IEP and GRD to be adjusted in accordance with last Friday decisions. Rates will be fixed on May 02 - 03 and [except, of course, $, GBP and GRD] will not change after these dates.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:27 - ID#224151)
The Golden promise of Spring and Summer.I counted 9 ( nine ) robbins all together in one little tree in my backyard ( Southern Ontario ) This AM.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:27 - ID#368244)
Let's drop the crap

Every segment of society has been down these roads. In the south the rebel flag is about to be outlawed, schools that were male now have to

let in women breaking 100,s of years of tradition. Every segment, every group is sure that they have been mistreated more than anyone . Hogwash, let your accomplishments speak for themselves, quit your griping and move on. If you were not born with a silverspoon in your mouth, than forge one. NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING!! BLAST AWAY, only goes to prove what I'm saying.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:28 - ID#333126)
oil and gold ... gold and oil ...

( pay attention to the last few paragraphs )

it's a bit weird, but could this be one of "ANOTHER"'s possible scenarios for financial turmoil?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:35 - ID#266105)

Elephant in the Dark

Some Hindus have an elephant to show.
No one here has ever seen an elephant.
They bring it out at night to a dark room.

One by one, we go into the dark and come out
saying how we experience the animal.

One of us happens to touch the trunk.
"A water-pipe kind of creature."

Another, the leg. "I find it still,
like a column on a temple."

Another touches the curved back.
"A leathery throne."

Another, the cleverest, feels the tusk.
"A rounded sword made of porcelain."
He's proud of his description.

Each of us touches one place
And understands the whole in that way.

The palm and the fingers feeling in the dark are
how the senses explore the reality of the elephant.

If each of us held a candle there,
and if we went in together,
we could see it.

- 13th Century ecstatic Persian poet ( Rumi )

The Essential Rumi;1995;translated by
Coleman Barks

Good Roy Orbison on PBS pledge drive last night.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:42 - ID#411112)
Who was it who said "the three men I admire the most,the father the son and the holy ghost


(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:46 - ID#335190)
robnoel @ 11:55
MAI-- ( Multilateral Agreement on Investments )
"Canada is leading on this front, USofA is following"

robnoel--The Canadian Citizen is not leading. The USofA Canadian-Elected Lackeys, are being instructed to lead. Just as these USofA Canadian Elected Lackeys were instructed to support the USofA Financial interests [Federal Reserve Corporation] in Iraq.

The USofA Citizen, nor, the Canadian Citizen, has/had any input into these "Trade Agreements". ( Liberal's were elected, in part, because of their stand, on the NAFTA Agreement-[Conservative's trade deal-MULRONEY] ie: we can rescind/repeal. )

Soooo, please qualify your "Canada Leading". USofA elected leadership represents the financial vested interests of USofA Corporation's. USofA-Canadian elected Lackeys represent the USofA Branch Plant ( USofA Corporate & International Corporate Financial interests )

Canada has Capitalists ( Economic Doctrine ) Yet, these International Corporations, has/have destroyed/crushed Canadian ENTREPRENEUR'S, YES, with the help of Canadian Elected Leaders/Lackeys, YES, working for the best interests of the USofA & European Corporations. So much for the general belief of free enterprise eh!

MAI/NAFTA/SDR/Clinton Fast track, is the end of the line of Canadian SOVEREIGNTY. Canada is 80% Foreign owed. "FREE" Democracy eh! Free for others, "We The People" is BULL SHIT. The truth is were the rubber hits the road.
......................... Be Quiet...Consume... And Die.

Take Care.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:47 - ID#113316)
Your 14:27


(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:49 - ID#304282)
NBC special
Did anybody catch the special on NBC on what great times economically we live in . They basically profiled some people who were investing in the stock market and were doing great. The conclusion to the piece was basically that the good times should last for at least well into the 21st century. This reminded me of the "Death of Eguities" article in 1982. I can't imagine how we could have anymore mania and madness in the stock market. The end is near. I don't know when, but it won't be long.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:49 - ID#210235)
Better Email me. Bart doesn't like advertisements. I'll let you know where I bought mine.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:50 - ID#255190)
History is a thing which many tell to their advantage.
Without justifying racism of any kind, whether bias or prejudice, let's agree that the 'founding fathers' indeed were white, indeed came mostly from England and indeed saw religious freedom as a very important part of their goals for the new nation. These people built the foundation from which we have grown. Honor where honor is due.

The subsequent development of the nation saw contributions from each generation and from ALL those who have immigrated to these shores. America is no static memorial to gone by predecessors. Its history is a panorama of the most visionary and most despicable motives and actions. There is no hiding these things. America is both the best and the worst.

If you have a passion for the work then get involved in the political process. Don't let it consume you as it has done to so many. America is not a religion it is a community, a series of self interested and self sacrificing commitments.

Of the many comments I have read that seem most pertinent to the survival and prosperity of this land one stands out of the most fundimental necessity: "May God's grace be upon her for her sake. For without it there is nothing that will save her." This is necessary for any nation. Humility, meekness and a sense of dependency upon the Creator for His continued support and blessing go much further than what we typically revert to.

When we believe that we can make the rules and are the best and brightest this earth has to offer, then we have fallen to Pride. It is but a short trip from Pride to Judgement. The Civil War was judgement as was the Great Depression. Pray that we awake to our folly before the next judgement.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:56 - ID#432157)
How do I get British Stock Quotes ??????"Weir Group"

(Sun Mar 15 1998 14:58 - ID#286199)
Elton John

Checked out your web site. Any connections in Houston?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 15:02 - ID#253153)
Oil For Gold
Forget about oil. The oil price is going down probably to $10 per barrel or less. Gold has begun it's bull market and will accelerate on the upside
as deflationary pressures intensify.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 15:03 - ID#411112)
Sorry 6pak,once again assuming,I refer to the
you know like you and me,also of note is coming together of two opposing people,not political partys,they are for MAI,

(Sun Mar 15 1998 15:07 - ID#286199)
Correction: Make that Don McLean and the same question, Any radio outlets in Houston??

(Sun Mar 15 1998 15:10 - ID#411112)
Speed not yet..6pak I screwed up last post should say I refer to the people of Canadathe


(Sun Mar 15 1998 15:25 - ID#341189)
geoffs - Weir Group

Mike Sheller
(Sun Mar 15 1998 15:30 - ID#347447)
Rumi and don't get much bettern' that, Bro.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 15:33 - ID#335190)
You have got me confused. That is usually the way I am, so nothing unusal about that : ) : ) : ) . I understood your post to suggest, that Canada was leading, in having a great trade deal in MAI. My position is otherwise.

MAI is very dangerous, for Canadian's, great for the USofA. USofA demands cheap resources. If Canada was to demand a fair premium for her resources, the USofA would be in deep DO DO economically.

The Issue of Quebec is very important for the Multi-national Corporations, and the vast majority of english Canadian Citizen's is being sucked into the stupid issue, to gain attention/diversion, away, from these destructive trade deals. Water/Power/ is Gold in the future. Quebec has Water, Electric Power, and Gold. Lots of other resources also.

MAI and NAFTA together will destroy the Quebec culture, and also the First Nations Culture. Yes, as Canadian's have proven aften in the past, these elected lackeys with the help of the USofA media, have undermined the Canadian People. Yes, it will continue, why not?

Mushrooms-R-Us eh!

Take care.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 15:35 - ID#36983)
British Stock Quotes
Try this:

(Sun Mar 15 1998 15:47 - ID#220325)
APH Thanks for the current update
Have a great weekend

(Sun Mar 15 1998 15:48 - ID#252127)

They keep the NA populations in the dark, while feeding them sh!t like the Bubba capers while cleaverly attending to their Agendas.
I'm getting to feel like Bob Hope's brother No Hope.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 15:50 - ID#411112)
6pak,I was first made aware of MAI,in a great article in The Winds you need to go the archive section it appeard last year sometime,I was contacted a few months ago by a group in Canada local folks who were lobbying against it,had them on my show...I will try to get their web site if you use a search engine like just enter the full name theres a lot o stuff,bottom line we are on the same page

John Disney__A
(Sun Mar 15 1998 15:59 - ID#24135)
The Flying Dutchman ... comes this way sometimes
for Mozel ..
I have no clue to your direction.. but should the trade winds
guide you to Table Bay, you're welcome here as long as you like.
Keep in touch.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:03 - ID#238295)
oil and gold
Ravenfire: Interesting that the only gold analyst quoted in that article is the ever bearish Andy Smith. Also the author failed to mention that gold price lows generally precede oil price troughs, not visa versa.

Gold bottomed in 1985, oil bottomed in 1986. More recently gold troughed in 1993 and oil the following year.

In the current cycle gold probably bottomed last fall, but oil still may not have troughed.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:03 - ID#411112)
John D just so you know I have a daughter in Cape Town soon to be here in the valley of the son

John Disney__A
(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:05 - ID#24135)
White metals
for brother oris..

I have a very nice feeling about platinum. I'm sure that
stockpile is gone. And the Russian really can play palladium.
I dont think they mine anymore .. they just play contracts.
I think those "miners" are extras from the Russian movies.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:05 - ID#238422)
Hey, you seems to know kto is kto. Great!
In regard to how many "we are with you" - does
it surprise you? Not a surprise to me for sure.

In the meantime, history teaches us that freedoms
must be respected, that people are different and
that the best way to keep peace is to be ready
for a war. Long live Second Ammendment.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:06 - ID#257136)
mozel's recent post and its respondents!!
I posted what some may have considered to be a negative post re: mozel several days ago upon his announcement of leaving the forum.
In it I stated I cared not a whit either way,if he returned or not. Personally, I still don't!

I do take umbrage with neophyte ( aptly named ) and Long Tom ( braggin' maybe? ( :+^},and probably others whom I have not yet read.
The ol' P.C. instructors have done a real job on any and all who have to resort to name callin' due to another's opinion.

I have read everyrhing he has posted since I came aboard ( I believe ) and can find little if any rational argument with his logic and/facts.

If he is wrong on either, neophyte, tom and any others who disageee with him: Put your facts out here for all of us to see so we can make up ouur minds.
We are the jury of his peers.

I was/am negative in this respect: he talks a good job. Until I have been persuaded ( by hard evidence ) that he is not only willing to go there , but that he has been to the place whereof he speaks ( The lion's den or the courts or a direct confrontation with the forces of the evils he decries so well and so readily and so often ) I cannot but state to the Old Soldier:
I gave your post to mozel a resounding 10 and have not changed my thinking!
The rest of you better get your s88t together befor you challenge mozel's facts.
I perceive him as a MAN who has taken the time and trouble to seek out the HARD FACTS RE: the issues with which he dealt! Give him credit for that.
WOOPS!! Changed my mind!!
Welcome baCK, mOZEL. i FIND YOUR PRESENCE TO BE OF MORE VALUE THAN THAT OF YOUR DETRACTORS, MYSELF INCLUDED!But then, I ain't threatenin' to leave! ( :+^}][

Mike Sheller
(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:08 - ID#347447)
Donald and Yeltsin
When did Boris ever bore us?Thanks for reminding me, Donald, about his mysterious condition. I let this easy grounder slip between my legs into left field. In '96 I was a couple of months ahead of the news predicting Yeltsin's major heart problems and hospitalization. Wasn't lookin' at his chart lately, tho, but now that you mention it, Dr. Astro says Uranus ( no jokes kitcoites, no jokes ) is right on top of his Sun at 11.09 Aquarius as we speak! ( Or, at kitco, that might be "speek" ) . This is usually only a ONCE in a lifetime cycle, its very powerful, and not everyone gets it. So its not a trifle. The Sun symbolizes, among other things, the heart, so it would appear that the Uranian impulse is to a decidedly irregular heartbeat here.
Transiting Mars TODAY is also squaring his natal Jupiter/Moon conjunction, both at 12 Cancer. If the old bear gets thru this week, look for Pluto to come back and square his Neptune in July and August, with Mars conjuncting that Jupiter/Moon on July 24th, 25th. Mid July I would take out puts on Boris if he's still drooling. ( God bless him ) .

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:09 - ID#26793)
Speed, Robnoel
Don MacLean. The song is Bye, Bye American Pie

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:13 - ID#335190)
If this is is to be expected for the USofA & the USofA Citizen. Imagine if you will, what this MAI & NAFTA will/has/is/ doing to the English Canadian Citizen, Quebec Canadian Citizen, First Nations People of Canada.

Glad to understand that you also consider this trade deal to be bad for both USofA and Canadian's, I do hope we all do not become Bob Hope's Brother "NO HOPE" I liked that saying Jack, good one : ) : ) : )
Thanks Take Care, robnoel and Jack

What Does the MAI Mean for the U.S. and the World?

The majority of U.S. workers have seen their real wages decline 19% [in inflation adjusted dollars] since 1972. This resulted in the mother and other family members leaving the house to go to work, with all working longer hours and taking second and third jobs. Even as families work harder, it has not been enough to reverse the decline in income. From 1989 to 1995 median family income dropped 6% -- in the midst of the most extensive trade agreements ever enacted.[3]

From 1979 to 1987 the incomes of the richest 10% of U.S. population rose 21%, while the income of the poorest 10% dropped by 12%. Between 1983 and 1992, 99% of the increase in American wealth went to 20% of the population. In 1949, the wealthiest 1% of the population owned 21% of all assets. Today that 1% of the population own more than 40% of all assets.

Between 1980 and 1995 corporate revenues rose 129.5%, with profits rising 205% and executive pay rising 500%. [4] In 1950, corporations paid 26.4% of federal tax income. In 1995, that figure had fallen to 11.6%, with the remainder falling on wage earners.[5]

John Disney__A
(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:13 - ID#24135)
Small World
for Robnoel...
Re your daughter.. a surprise ... if she likes .. ask her
to give me a ring or come by for a beer.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:14 - ID#411112)
good old boys drinking whiskey and rye,till the day we all die

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:17 - ID#411112)
John D sure heres my EMail me have your #

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:20 - ID#253153)
Oil for Gold
This cycle is different. The previous phase was a disinflationay period which started in 1982 and is ending now. We are entering the runaway Deflationary phase where everything ( stocks, real estate, commodities, currencies, oil, etc ) go down. The only exception is Gold and Silver. Gold and Silver will rise in a runaway deflationary period because money will seek Safety, and Income. There will be no other alternatives for investments except for high quality bonds, Gold and Silver. Interest rates will decline and I expect the US Treasury Bond to pay 2% within 2 years.
Defaults, currencies reneg, devaluations, political chaos,rising unemployment will be the key events. Of course, this runaway cycle will present major buying opportunity in stocks and real estate once it's over.
But, this is an issue for another day.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:33 - ID#228128)
Just a statement of the facts
I like to obtain information on this site not just about the technical aspects of precious metals but also the big picture, politics, history, religion, economics, etc. that have an important impact on the PMs. Some these topics are highly incendiary and as such have evoked strong emotional responses in various posters from time to time. Nobody likes that. On the other hand who wants censored political correctness. I took Mozels comments on the founding of America by white christians for themselves to be simply a statement of fact. You don't have to like it but it is the truth. I fail to see the racism here and I don't sympathize much with people who label every statement related to race as racist. I don't want anyone to feel censored in this regard because we have some events coming up worldwide that will have an important impact on PM investments. Or should we make certain topics off limits. Should we not discuss oriental culture/thinking and how differences with western ( white )
culture might modify our views of the unfolding drama in the east. Should we not talk about black South Africans miners working for white mine owners and how their relations may influence that industry. Or is it ok as long as we accept first the precept that the whites are evil. I for one am here to make some money not to precondition everything I say or read on the utterly bankrupt popular culture used mainly to keep the unthinking masses in line with the game plan decided for them in advance by others.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:35 - ID#26793)
I suggested the word "realist" because Mozel was relating facts about the founding fathers and their religious persuasion. America has a long history of religious tolerance. There was a synagoge in nearby Newport, Rhode Island in the early 1700's. Robert Morris, a Jew, was the Treasurer during the revolution and a signer of the Declaration of Independence. It is because original settlers were victims of religious intolerance that the drafters of the constitution took pains to reject any chance of dominance by any one religion, especially that of their own majority. That decision has been under assault since day one, perhaps even more so now. The original decision has stood us well. As Allen said. We have had some bad days but always managed to get over them. I will let Mozel speak for himself but I did not find anything sinister in his comments.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:36 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Brother John,

PL prices seems to indicate you are correct.
I think PL wants to establish itself above
$415, will probably spike to $450 in April.
But then two sets of books may surface again...
Will see, but I feel there will no large
under-the-table dumping of metal in the nearest
couple of month. Something changed...I feel.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:41 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Correction: there will be no=there will no.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:42 - ID#341234)
You are right. Political correctness can ruin a good discussion.

silver plate
(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:48 - ID#289468)
plain and simple
Today, so many of the posts are riddles. Is everyone trying to be so politicaly correct that they are afraid of plain talk? If you have anything to say, say it, if not stick to the subject of GOLD.

For deep mystical philosophy try the local library.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:49 - ID#39971)
Happy St. Paddy's Kitcoites!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:50 - ID#341189)
OK, Against my better judgement
The phrase "for themselves" was the phrase that was, although ambiguous, somewhat discomforting in mozel's dissertation. Of course they fought and pledged "their lives and their fortunes" for themselves. But they also had an acute awareness of the importance of freedom for all human beings.
"I sincerely pray that all the members of the human family may, in the time prescribed by the Father of us all, find themselves securely established in the enjoyment of life, liberty, and happiness." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Address, 1807.

Among other things, I also question mozel's easy attribution of "freedom" thinking to England and the Common Law. A few Greek City State "farmers" living around 500BC might have a different view of history.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 16:53 - ID#253153)
Gold and Silver Stocks
Both Gold and Silver stocks offer an opportunity of a life time now. As a major Depression begins to unfold by the end of 1998 , Gold and Silver stocks will gain the full respect of investors and will sky rocket in 1999-2001. Markets have way of discounting events ahead of time. For this reason I feel that the move in Gold and Silver stocks is starting now.
There is an old adage amoung seasons investors," THEY FOOL YOU FIRST AND THEY CLUBBER YOU."

(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:02 - ID#26793)
Suharto given broad new powers to put down unrest.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:03 - ID#253153)
My Intent
My intent in posting all these messages is NOT to scare you or harm you financially, just the opposite is true. My intent is to educate you and share my opinion with you so you can make intelligent decisions and make some money .

(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:17 - ID#252127)
In a sense

We are talking about 'real money', gold and silver, both of which, have been made to look politically incorrect, so I think it is our perogative to search for the reasons as to why this has come about; and to try to change the perception.

Farfel has made suggestions that posters visit non-gold related sites and start a dialogue on PM's.

Problem that I see is that we are outnumbered, but if we come to those sites prepared with a battery of posts easily insertable and geared to answer various anti gold arguments we would have a chance. HOW COULD THIS BE DONE EFFECTIVELY?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:18 - ID#348286)
@CLINTON - HMMMMM - How many more shady FRIENDS does this LOUSE have ???
Report: Democratic Donor Nathan Landow Urged Willey to Change Story

WASHINGTON ( AllPolitics, March 15, 1998 ) -- A major donor for the Democratic Party tried to get Kathleen Willey to back off her story that President Clinton made unwanted sexual advances to her, Newsweek magazine reports.

A real estate firm owned by Nathan Landow chartered a plane to fly Willey from her Virginia home to Landow's home in Maryland on October 6, Newsweek reports in its new edition. FBI agents working for Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr made the discovery, the magazine said.

The trip came two months after Willey was subpoenaed to testify in Paula Jones' sexual harassment lawsuit against Clinton.

Sources familiar with Willey's testimony to Starr's grand jury told Newsweek she spent two days at Landow's home.

The sources also quoted Willey as saying that during her visit, Landow repeatedly asked her what happened during the incident with Clinton, and told her if she said "nothing happened," no one could contradict her.

"Don't say anything," Landow told her, according to the magazine's sources.

Landow raised $600,000 for Clinton's two presidential campaigns. He has said he met Willey through his daughter but denies suggestions that he tried to tamper with a witness.

According to Newsweek sources, Willey also told Starr's grand jury Landow offered to fly her to New York to do her Christmas shopping.

Willey, a former White House volunteer, alleges that during a meeting with the president, Clinton kissed her, fondled her and put her hand on his genitals.

The president denies the allegations.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:18 - ID#31868)
and now, a thought from Cuervo Central
Politically Correct = Patronizing C_ _ K SUCKER

(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:22 - ID#348286)
@Al Gore's House
AL is waiting with baited breath for the 60-Minutes Willey segment.

Bully Beef
(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:25 - ID#259282)
Carl... you are plain sensible and your wording careful and polite.
I don't like name calling or political correctness. I just think that you have to get used to the fact that "WE the People " aren't the people of 1776. I don't think that America or Canada belongs to any specific group. I think that the countries are evolving...becoming. Rome lasted what?...900 years. Well the U.S. of 1776 is definitely not going to last that long. People from diverse background are getting power in our countries. They have more votes.They may have more money. They may educate their children. They may have more children. ( Instead of buying that new Cadillac ) . The rest of us sit around and blame " them "for it cause we think all of this freedom is our GOD GIVEN RIGHT. There is only one way to make money and thats to work hard for it...and to invest in GOLD when we are on the cusp of a major drop in the markets. I promise to lighten up and not post as often.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:27 - ID#287129)
Jack: re: posting to other investment groups
I think Jack's idea is a good one. Perhaps if those who are knowledgable can occasionally post something informative and persuasive regarding PMs to other investment newsgroups, it might help some people wake up in time to save part of their wealth.

Maybe the best approach is that of calling PMs "investment insurance" -- as most people understand the importance of insurance. NOBODY like to pay the premiums for insurance, but God help those who suffer a loss WITHOUT having the insurance to cover it.

Who knows... Even if most ignore the advice to get some PMs and PM stock, some might heed the advice and thank their lucky stars.


(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:31 - ID#348286)
@ "I could not believe the recklessness of that act," she tells Ed Bradley on 60 MINUTES.
By Matt Drudge

XXXXX 09:58:33 PST SUN MAR 15 1998 XXXXX

Kathleen Willey tells a national television audience tonight that the president groped her just outside the Oval Office. "I could not believe the recklessness of that act," she tells Ed Bradley on 60 MINUTES.

National Organization for Women president Patricia Ireland took off the gloves on CNN Sunday morning, calling Willey's allegations, if true, "sexual assault in the workplace."

It is "certainly a much bigger problem than a question of womanizing or a private sex life," Ireland added.

Just as supporters of President Clinton feverishly engage in damage control, saying Mrs. Willey's account is disputed by others and flatly denied by the president.

Willey's associate Julie Steele, speaking through her lawyer, tells TIME magazine, hitting stands on Monday, that she didn't learn of Willey's meeting with Clinton until weeks after the fact and that Willey didn't describe it as sexual or anything upsetting.

TIME has learned that last Tuesday, the day Willey appeared before Starr's grand jury in Washington, two FBI agents appeared at Steele's home. Starr's agents didn't appear to be interested in quizzing Steele about Willey's credibility. Instead, sources familiar with the interview tell TIME, they spent much of three hours putting Steele on the defensive. Though they did inquire whether Willey had ever asked her to lie for her before, they showed little interest when Steele described two instances in which Willey asked her to do just that in connection with Willey's romantic liaisons.

People who know Willey have told TIME that her calm demeanor masks a surprising volatility. She can be a difficult friend, they say, because one never knows when she may decide to end the friendship over some perceived slight. She is described as smart, funny and attractive, but also unpredictable. In an amended deposition, Willey testified that longtime Democratic activist Nathan Landow had discussed her story with her. Landow told TIME that "in no way did I ever attempt to persuade or influence Ms. Willey to lie in her testimony or to avoid testifying. She was distraught and in pain. She told me she did not want to testify. My only comment to her about that was that she should do what she felt was best for her"...




Former White House employee tells 60 MINUTES on Sunday that President Clinton sexually assault her just outside the Oval Office. She reveals to Ed Bradley: Nathan Landow, a major Democratic donor, tried to influence her testimony by asking her to withhold giving a deposition in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case.

This is known at this hour: The interview will fill two 60 MINUTES segments -- running nearly 40 minutes. Willey is so compelling, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned, that close to 9 minutes of Willey's conversation with Bradley will run without a single edit. 60 MINUTES producer Michael Radutzky has been working closely with Willey's lawyer setting up the interview. Willey had a big week, providing testimony to Starr's grand jury on Monday, giving an update to her Jones deposition on Wednesday, sitting down with Bradley on Thursday.

"The Willey interview will be a near-death experience for the President," a network source predicts to the DRUDGE REPORT.

Willey was first introduced to the nation in this space, in a series of exclusive reports that were published over the course of several weeks last Summer.

[ Flashback at ]

Elsewhere, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned that Linda Tripp gave an interview with NEWSWEEK in a hotel in Washington late this week, believed to be for a cover story on Tripp. What is being described as a "closely controlled" Q & A session with the magazine's Michael Isikoff, Tripp gave her first interview on the Monica Lewinsky investigation. She also posed for pictures. There are indications that Tripp's interview did not directly explore any evidence that is currently being presented to a federal grand jury, including specifics of the famed Lewinsky/Tripp audio tapes. "No talk on specifics... it was more about the overall situation," a magazine source in Washington whispers to the DRUDGE REPORT. It has also been learned that the NEW YORK TIMES is running a Page One story on Tripp this Sunday...

In what is turning into a 'Hell Weekend' for the White House -- with the detailed Paula Jones papers [700 pages] released, a first sit down interview with Linda Tripp taking place for a national magazine, and Kathleen Willey speaking out on 60 MINUTES -- Press secretary Mike McCurry pleaded for compassion.

President Clinton is "a human being and has human reactions," said McCurry.

Clinton's lawyer, Robert Bennett, told reporters in Los Angeles: "This is a form of insanity, what's going on here."

One shock point in the Jones summary judgement papers, obtained by the DRUDGE REPORT, involves a deposition given by Dolly Kyle Browning in the Jones case. Browning testified that she had a long sexual affair with Mr. Clinton, "and that she was contacted by agents of Mr. Clinton, including Bruce Lindsey, threatening to 'destroy her' if she told the truth, and later promising not to spread vicious lies about her in order to get her to downplay her disclosures."


(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:39 - ID#341189)
Bully Beef
Don't back off. I'm beginning to think I'm the one who doesn't belong here. Lot's things to do and learn elsewhere.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:43 - ID#347457)
@Mozel, Elephant in the Dark, Freedom of Speech, etc..
I am going through posts from the last couple of days, and I am still puzzled about how "selective" are we when we support or reject some posts.

No, I dont support everything what Mozel says, however, nobody has hold of "absolute knowledge of right and wrong", and the truth can be found only after discussing all information, disagreement, but free exchange of information about "elephant in the dark". I just question if this is the right forum to do it.

We like to hear what supports our beliefs and tend to vigorously reject what goes against it. However, is our belief the one which is based on "truth and only the truth?"

How soon we forget. We ( meaning citizens of the USA ) like to talk about this great nation of the US based on democratic principles, and forget that this nation was born through violent rape and genocide of native nations which already lived on this continent for centuries. Talk about democracy, right to freedom, and "all men created equal". I guess these ideas apply only when they support the "stronger one"

My friends, its not so bad that somebody reminds you of not so pleasant facts. So dont go and call on Bart "please, stop it, he has no rights" because today its Mozel, but tomorrow it may be you. The truth can not be found through political correctness, nor any great nation can survive the quest for freedom through enforcing PC and suppressing the freedom of speech.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:49 - ID#288140)
Mozel- Safe journey.

Aurator- That was wonderful story on Teriyaki. Thanks! Also for the interesting history and insights contributed by JTF, Bill2j and others.

Mike Sheller- The Saigon Style Pork Chops were yummy. We were able to find all ingredients. My Honey made black beans and ( separately ) raw onion rings with rice wine vinegar, fresh lime juice + dash of sugar.

Oris- Tony Packos = great! I found and ordered from Tony's web site.

I better slip back into lurkydom for a while. Bye!

The Hatt
(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:54 - ID#294232)
Starr ha Clinton by the N###!
I have said from day one that Clinton is toast and so he should be! I am not an American however I did witness his outright lies to the citizens of U.S.A. and the polls will start heading south tommorow. Watch the currency markets closely tommorow as these latest allegations are sure to have a punishing effect on the perceived flight to safety! If I am right take a look at the gold price in late Asia or early London trading. We could see the breakout we have been looking for in the next twenty four hours. In the meantime lets have some sympathy for Hillary and their daughter as the antics of Sir Bill are exposed.
Starr has been sitting on a bombshell for sometime now and he will not go away. I am convinced that he has much more than has been leaked and that is why the Justice Department is remaining supportive. My call is look for Clintons resignation before the end of March. His Party will pressure him to resign........

Lurker 777
(Sun Mar 15 1998 17:56 - ID#317247)
Where do you see the DJIA in six months?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 18:10 - ID#251268)
The one thing B.C. hasn't lied about is that He will NEVER
resign,I asume he believes himself ( sign of a great liar ) and has
vast expierience with rationalizing ( SP ) truth,to him there
is no absolute ( didn't inhale ) I'm sure he thinks all these women
were begging for it,so what was he supposed to do?Anyway back
on track he will Never admit to anything while he is in office
the american people elected him to do a job and bygolly he's
going to do it.I don't like him didn't vote for him and yet
Gore as president wo I better get some more gold fast!!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 18:11 - ID#253153)
Anyone out there ?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 18:17 - ID#252391)
Gold as a deflation hedge???
Gold as a deflation hedge seems to be the topic of late,as it should be given the environment. Interesting, that once an inflation hedge it is now a deflation hedge. I am frankly beginning to wonder if it is a hedge against anything. It wasn't bought on balance in Asia during their currency crisis - dollars were king. Will it be bought in a deflationary environment when all other assets are declining and liquidity is tight? I think there's much wishful thinking in that projection.

Gold will bottom and start to rise once the Central Banks stop selling, and that will happen when they announce the gold percentage backing to the EU. Gold will trade in reverse of the dollar -deflation or inflation.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 18:25 - ID#26669)
Mike Sheller
Well, for all our sakes I hope you succeed! I work primarily in copper and bronze and doing more silver as I get experiance, using ancient techniques. But, IMHO I'd like to see somebody come out with a well advertised line of laser cut or holographic gold, in thin enought sheets to be within a 20 year old's price range, perhaps backed by silver, base metal or even acrylic.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 18:30 - ID#253153)
Gold as an edge against inflation or deflation
Gold ib both an edge again inflation or deflation. It's a much superior edge against deflation for the following reasons: During inflation an investor has many alternatives. You can invest in real estate, selected stocks, oil collectibles ,etc. During deflation all investmens EXCEPT for gold and silver go down.In deflation , money seeks safety and income.
Income ia available by investing in high quality bonds,and appreciation is available via an investment in gold and silver stocks and bullion.When people are scared they buy PM. The recent fiasco in South east Asia is only the tip of the iceberg. Once defaults begin, gold will become an alternative to paper investments.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 18:38 - ID#26669)
Donalt_A, the terminology gets too difficult.
I for one lump radical leftists and rightists together, believe that typical working class conservatives are much more liberal in their personal attributes than institutional liberals, who tend to be conservative in whatever direction it takes to keep their free government money flowing, and NONE of them appreciate gold enough! And modern liberalism is tainted with a bizarre mixture of Marxism and 1930's 'eugenics' philosophy...using the same 'eugenics' tools ( abortion and euthanasia ) that Hitler started with in the 1930's. Classic liberalism is much more reminiscent of what the t.v. talking heads call 'moderate' whatever that is. IMHO

I think you'll find the common denominator though of any extremists regardless of whatever side they're on is their desire to act on their natural human covetousness for the wealth of others. IMHO

( BTW I think that much of the political discussion is less off topic than I used to, as it is all "deep background" information for the price of gold ) . If you want off topic, here's off topic:

Mike Sheller
(Sun Mar 15 1998 18:42 - ID#347447)
JP: Runaway deflation? If you were into NY Real Estate you would think NOT! New York, especially MANHATTAN, RE prices are rising like the S&P. Vertical!

SAM: Glad you enjoyed the Saigon Porkchops A ND the Rice n' beans. They go perfect together! Sound like you got a great "honey" there!!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 18:48 - ID#253153)
Mike, NY real estate prices
Mike, this is the APEX in real estate prices in NY or anywhere around the country. By Dec 1998 you will have a different opinion. As I said before, we are now entering the runaway phase and as the stock market tops soon ( within 30-60 days or sooner ) perceptions will changed.

Mike Sheller
(Sun Mar 15 1998 18:52 - ID#347447)
Hitlerian "eugenics" was a horrid expression of a social prejudice, and a need to control. Abortion eugenics, while equally horrid, is, as always, an outgrowth of human laziness and indulgence. It is a means by which the effects of certain causes are sought to be avoided. Abortion is a manifesto of "convenience," and has ever been so. It has been institutionalized by a politics and social agenda of "convenience" under the guise of "civil rights." ( IE: " It is MY body and so I have the right to murder the living, human child forming within it" ) . Ultimately, civil human law or no, this is a problem of Cosmic Law. Murder of a human is murder. It may occur as self defense, or it may occur for profit - physical, monetary, or psychic. Absolving oneself of the responsibility of sexual activity and reproduction through abortion is a seeming psychic profit that is, in actuality, a cosmic debt and liability. It will be paid, in some future state, some future life. It is murder.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 18:58 - ID#30116)
Thought provoking 6:22 post. For those who see a white supremacist, racist, or whatever else in Mozels', GET A LIFE!

Mike Sheller
(Sun Mar 15 1998 18:59 - ID#347447)
In '89 the NY RE market topped, while the stock market ran to mid 1990 before tanking. You may very well be right about this being a top, no question, but the market right now, for both RE and stox are VERY strong. I think there is a good possibility that stocks can go to 9500 on the Dow before the top is in. That gives both the market and RE a couple of months, at least. The Dow Uilities are challenging their top. I see tremendous resistance for the Utes at 280. If they get above this number in any significant fashion, I would have to step back in reverent awe. I am an astrologer, but my "crystal ball " is the Utility Average. Until it turns down clearly, I would not bet too heavily on an equity collapse. But watch April/May. That could break the back of this equity bull.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:01 - ID#30116)
Interesting stories on the currency devaluation in Greece and Ireland. Yes, the SS Currency/Titanic ship is lisping badly... Go GOLD!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:06 - ID#335190)
FYI....Law & Freedom...Religion & Commerce
Common Law System....Judicial System of England and Wales - Origins traced to the time of King Henry II in the twelfth Century - Based on the rules of commerce and criminal law - varied from one locality to another - such a system not only discouraged inter-regional trade in England but also promoted disunity.

Civil Law System
Common law world includes most Commonwealth countries and the United States; the rest of the world has adopted the civil law system. Developed in continental Europe at the end of the eighteenth century. Scholars fascinated with Roman law - urged governments to adopt uniform codes of law based on Old Roman Codes. LESS EMPHASIS ON PRECEDENT THAN COMMON LAW.

"CODIFICATEURS"....Judges look for guidance in general principles in the code.

INQUISITORIAL"....Judges may often conduct their own investigations of the facts.

Judges - basic law school for one year [Exam]- attend National School for Jurists [Exam] - one and half years as an apprentice - appointed lower courts - Senior judges assess their ability.

Quebec has both Common Law, and Civil Law, British Conquered Quebec in 1759, to gain support from Quebeckers the British maintained civil law in private law field ( till this day 1998 ) Common law in public matters.

Common Law: 13th Century - Judges were appointed , all were clergymen, poorly paid, and resorted to accepting bribes. The public cryed out about the corruption in the judicial system, King Edward investigated. Edward fired 1/2 of the judges ( clergymen ) for corruption.

Edward appointed "BUSINESSMEN" called "LAWYERS" by the 14th Century all Judges were "LAWYERS" ( BUSINESSMEN ) But, the "LAWYERS" ( businessmen ) continued to wear the robes in the "CLERICAL TRADITION".

Common Law: "stare decisis" ( let decided matters stand ) JUDGE MADE LAW.

YES, law made by "BUSINESSMEN" USofA Constitution founded by "MEN OF PROPERTY" George Washington ( Federalist Party ) was the riches man in the then USofA, when he became President, of the then United States of America. ( 1787 -1789 ) [13 colonies] "We The People" yea, sure!.

Note: The French Revolution started ( 1789 ) " widespread rioting triggered by rumors that the nobility and the clergy have plotted to collect all the nation's grain and ship it abroad. Rumors abound that the first and second estates intend to disrupt the Estates-General and starve the people."

FYI Take Care.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:10 - ID#30116)
Not again! OOoooooooh..... Let's see, if we devalue our currency to become more 'competitive' ( export wise ) , doesn't that mean that the local currency buys fewer imported goods? As a by product of this, wouldn't local commodity producers ( farmers and such ) raise prices to offset increasing overhead costs ( like imported fertilizer, equipment, etc. ) ? It's not so simple to say deflation/depression...... Think about it.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:12 - ID#411112)
was Mozal right or wrong? as a Rhodesian living in America,and yes enjoying the American Dream
I never used to like America,I was on the other side of Americas policy in AFRICA,IT WAS SHAMEFUL,Jimmy Carter attacked whites in Africa to pander to the Black vote in America,at the time Rhodesia had the worlds highest GDP per capita....the UN called us the greatest threat to world peace...England sent in the RAF...we were working for a Republic form of government....there was no question the fix was in...a free colony in Africa was out of the question. What does this have to do with anything since I have lived here it has become very apparant that government has been lying to it's people,if Americans new the real story about Rhodesia the would never have stood for the handing over to the commies./ was not the American people I disliked but the policys of the people in power...I grew up thinking America was our friend....the pieces of the puzzel did not come together till I studied the constitution, bill of rights fedralist papers more than ever I understand why this happened the constitution was nullified in 1933,and the generaly dumb public just does not want to hear this..role on MAI ......and kiss Freedom goodbye

(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:17 - ID#253153)
Panda, local currencies
If our currency is devalued ,foreign countries will devalue their currencies even further. This is called competitive devaluations. As deflation sinks into the American PSYCHE, people will slow their spending because they will be worried about their jobs. Once the ball start rolling there is no stop until it exhaust itself. The trend can't be reversed until it ends.

Lurker 777
(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:17 - ID#317247)
Your posts are reminiscent of a old friend. Welcome ( back? )

(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:21 - ID#288369)
@Tick, tock, tick, tock........
The last sixty minutes of Billy's political career.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:30 - ID#411112)
forgot to add this latest Africa plan that Clinton is pushing

he will be there in a few weeks is the biggest scam,black America has once again bought this line of they always do..and it will hurt blacks in America,because giving free trade to Africa means that China/Korea/all Asia tigers will be able to send it's goods to South Africa who will then send it to the US duty free WAKE UP AMERICA

(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:37 - ID#210235)
There are a great many US citizens who saw what happened in Rhodesia as a disaster, but, as usual, had no say in the manner in which this government of ours enacted its foreign policy. One thing the internet is providing, for the first time, is a manner in which we can communicate to one another without the 50-or so families who gained control of the news media between the 70's and 80's filtering it for us. This is a boon, but will surely not last long without some serious challenges. Mozel is right to expect some sort of trouble to ensue. It is only strange that he took this forum and this time to worry about it. Perhaps he recognized trouble where we don't, from his own information. Time will tell.

The Hatt
(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:41 - ID#294232)
jman truer words could not have been spoken!
Clinton just blew the most honorable position in the world. thinking with his other head.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:43 - ID#26793)
I was in error on the Irish situation. It is an upward revaluation of 3%, not a devaluation. I read it carelessly. There is a correction back there close to the original post.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:43 - ID#210235)
Already had to wear my clown nose for a week after predicting ( only with friends over the dinner table ) that Clinton was history after the Monica story broke. In a few days, very likely, Willey will be vilified and Clinton will be at 93% approval. Today's headlines in the local paper were of the Pentagon investigating Linda Tripp for not reporting a previous arrest on some papers.

At a store where the guys were chewing the fat yesterday, they were characterizing the whole thing as a "witch hunt, no matter what its basis in fact".

(Sun Mar 15 1998 19:59 - ID#411112)
Prometheus,don't always agree with you but you are spot on

as a dealer I always tell my clients prepare for the worst pray for the personal experiance is why I believe in gold as a physical asset,I used to say in Rhodesia and later South Africa it could not happen here...when I left SA in 1980 an oz of gold was almost the same in dollars $400.00 today in SA currency an oz of gold is R1650.00 the question you have to ask is"could it ever happen here".....I guess this also answers the question here to day ...what has politics and gold have in common....a lot

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:02 - ID#288369)
@God of my Groucho (sp?) glasses on.......
Geeeze...that White House is a swingin' pad! Willy and Willey...made in, hot, hot!

Mr. Mick
(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:04 - ID#345321)
I just hurled a good fish dinner after hearing Mr. Bennet comment on Kathleen Willey's
statement regarding the President. He couldn't even look Ed Bradley in the eye! Excuse me, I gotta go hurl some more..........

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:08 - ID#287312)
60 Min. Tonite
CBS atually gave an unbiased showing of the Katie Willie story tonite. Made the Prez look really bad.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:08 - ID#255190)
For those interested

I strongly suggest looking at the "Iceberg Named Y2K" articles at golden eagle ( w/o the en ) . The first article is a general overview and the second article more technical and detailed in nature. Major do-do, folks. Such as CitiBank spending US$600 Million and only expecting to get 10% of its 400 Million lines converted w/ comparison to SS Admin having 400 staff programmers spending 6 years and only getting 6 Million ( of 39 Million ) lines converted ( by 1996 ) !

Quote by AG saying anything less than 100% will be failure for everyone. I had read that before but it did not sink in. This time it did. Translation from FedSpeak: "We will not be ready.". Also comments about Fed not allowing non-compliant banks to do business with the Fed and in essence this means they will cease to be banks by definition.

A treatment on the social aspects involving panics, etc.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:09 - ID#335190)
As I see it @ 60 Minutes
Life is but a stage....She is doing well...Well staged. I do not give a damn about his traditional sex agenda, and likely, neither do the rest of USofA & Canada.

He was elected to do the job "BY The People" eh! The people made a mistake, if they elected him, to have his sex, but, do not get caught. The crime is he got caught. The "People" will elect another sex criminal right. Most great men like their women. What the hell is wrong with that.

Two consenting adults, wrong to do such at the work place, right. But, that is also his present home ( office ) .

Like maybe they should only put forth those that knowingly do not have traditional sex habits. ( like, men that like women, should not apply ) Others, that do not have traditional sex habits, should run for the President of the USofA.

Maybe Masturbation, in the OVAL OFFICE, will be the next great discovery, against the President of the United States of America. The guy that can push the button, that is, the Atomic button, not the sex button.: ) : ) : )

My Take, on this stupid issue,unfortunate for the USofA Citizen. And I, as a Canadian, am sorry to see the President of the USofA, and the USofA Citizen, being put through this. Just pay them off ( women ) and be done with this madness.
........Take Care.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:14 - ID#348286)
@Mr. Mick
I have to agree, Bennet - death warmed over and talking.....

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:15 - ID#288369)
@this is the stuff that farfel can really run with.....Wow!
We wait and wonder if Willy wanked Willey with ol' Wobbley...whooooa. Now back to gold. Go Goldbugs!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:16 - ID#252150)
JP@You sound like a recycled Peutz
Your posts sound eerily familiar. I suggest you go back on this forum about 6-9 months & read some of Steve Peutz's posts. Can you say hubris?
These mkts made Peutz look like a putz & will probably do the same to you.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:17 - ID#251268)
aaaaaaaaaaaaa Palladium show
us how its done,please don't bite GOLD in the ass!!

Mr. Mick
(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:19 - ID#345321)
6pak - USA is the only country that tolerates such behavior from the person
occupying the highest office in the land. UK would have kicked him out long ago.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:23 - ID#253153)
James, my response
James , I'm not like Peutz's . I have researched these topics over the last 10 years and what I posted, ( to me ) this is the truth . You are mature enough to make your own decisions. I just wanted to express my opinion..

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:24 - ID#287312)
Is 6PAK a liberial ?
My defination of a die hard liberal is one still defending the First Fellon. Slick's real crime is selling out state secrets to the Chinese for campaign money. If Starr brings him down for obstruction of justice it will be compariable to busting Al Capone for tax evasion.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:25 - ID#348286)
Where do you get 2 consenting adults? Paula Jones has a lawsuit against Clinton for sexual harrasment in the workplace.
Ms. Willey has just testified that the pres in effect sexually assaulted her in the White House.............

While Levinsky may have been a willing little slut, by many accounts Clinton has suborned perjury in trying to cover it up, a felony.........

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:27 - ID#335190)
Mr. Mick @ 20:19
Much more, is going on in the UK. The USofA politics is based on the belief that their leaders are sent to the people by God. "In God We Trust" God and sex are accepted in the UK, but, in USofA things are different eh!

As I see the matter..........Take Care

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:31 - ID#210235)

Charles Keeling
(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:37 - ID#344225)
@ ALL RE: Sexual Harrasment
I have known of several incidents of
purported sexual harrasment in past years.

Many men have been ruined financially by
judgements that have been granted to women
who "claimed" to be the object of sexual
harrasment. In some instances these claims
were perhaps true. Other claims were totally
fraudulent and driven solely by monetary

This law that was put on the books after the
Anita Hill incident should perhaps be re-
thought. History has now proven that Anita
Hill herself brought forth a false claim.

As to our boy Bill Clinton: If anyone has
ever been guilty of sexual harrasment, it is
our President Bill Clinton. Of course, he
wants to escape justice while countless
citizens pay the price for what is considered
a misdeed.

Women put BC into office. It is only fitting
that they are the ones to remove him from


whip it out ( CASH THAT IS ) and buy GOLD.

DAY TRADERS: 700 pages of copy spelling out
the history of B. C'S sexual harrasment &
Willey's 60 minute interview should send the
stock market down at least 200 points on
Monday. B. C. MUST RESIGN. The Demo's
themselves will demand it. AND-----much
worse to come if he doesn't step down.


(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:37 - ID#335190)
Soooo, the issue is GOD/SEX/LAW, and someone calls a young women "A willing little slut" Sad Sad sad.

Take Care

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:38 - ID#411112)
O to Bill 60 minutes giveth 60 minutes takith


Mr. Mick
(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:39 - ID#345321)
6pak - I don't exactly understand your logic, but no matter.........
I still think Clitton is immune from all scuttle-butt unless the Dow tanks.

Mr. Mick
(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:47 - ID#345321)
Nikkei down 116.78 points.............
I guess they believe Kathleen Willey...........

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:50 - ID#348286)
@Charles Kealing - You hit the nail right on the head: hypocracy / double standard.
You or any other "ordinary" folk would imediately lose your job, and have an expiditious trial if you were accused of this type of act.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:52 - ID#348286)
@OK - Back to Gold
Anyone have spot Gold ???

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:53 - ID#335190)
Mr. Mick @ 20:39
There is no logic to this tragedy of sex allegations against the man, that occupies, the office of the President of the USofA. Should the office of President be obstructing justice, would it not stand to reason, that those doing the investigations, to concern themselves about those matters. Yet, that would not be the proper political thing to do. It is easier to attack the man for his sexual habits. Like Mommy and Daddy do not do it!

Take Care

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:57 - ID#411112)
6Pak..if he did not have the power to tax or send Americas sons and daughters to may have

point but you don't..everybody does it is a lame excuse

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:58 - ID#251268)
Hes a lawer shes a lawer ?
H'm thats probably the woest thing I can say about B.C.andH.
they spent years goimg to school to learn how to give false
witness with a straight face,and I must say they learned well'
ah the left will rally with a vengence and cry there is NO
right or wrong !!~~~~~~~~~?but you better pay your taxs

(Sun Mar 15 1998 20:58 - ID#318118)
Gold up in Asia to $296. Where to now?
Any ideas where we are headed this week?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:02 - ID#253153)
XAU is the key
Watch the XAU this week. If the XAU moves above 79 ( previous high )
then gold should move to 310-320.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:05 - ID#251268)
Sorry I forgot the Y
in lawer

Charles Keeling
(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:05 - ID#344225)
Women enter the workforce in record
numbers, after dumping their husband and
parking the kids at the nursery, just to get
a shot at the BOSS.

The more powerful the BOSSMAN is, the higher
his batting rate.

Think about it: If CLINTON has been zapped
by only a dozen or so women, how many times
has he scored? I bet his batting rate on the
"when in doubt whip it out" strategy is over


(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:16 - ID#253418)
Yes, I agree a move above 79 XAU would sure be a great signal for we gold mining bulls. However, I think its going to be very rough sledding if gold and silver''s openings in Asia are any indication. What I'm concerned about is the XAU failing and falling below last week's low. In my opinion, such a decline would validate the down trend and protend a retest of 285 gold and 5.50 Silver - both i regretfully submit look like a better than even chance of happening.

Keeping the faith, but not seeing the kink of action that makes me very positive.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:26 - ID#253153)
Something about a Gold Bull Market
In a beginning of a gold bull market it looks as though it may go down rather then up.The reason for it is to keep speculation out. But bull markets climb a wall of worries. Thet start slow and accelerate as they move forward. In my opinion the bull market in gold has begun.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:34 - ID#373403)
I just read my latest copy. Excellent read! I have a question though as to the validity of the conclusion that the U.S. might cancel the dollar and re-issue a second dollar in the face of massive debt redemptions. Does anyone care to comment?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:35 - ID#339265)
The truth is this:

The majority of Americans do not care about anything today beyond how much they are making. This decade, most middle-class Americans are raking it in through their wondrous mutual funds.

On a simplistic level, most Americans assume that if they are prosperous, the President deserves the credit.

Ergo, Clinton can go out and sodomize young boys...he can unleash golden showers on elderly women in retirement homes...he can expose himself on a Times Square subway...he can run a snuff film operation out of the White House and invite major Democratic donors in for private screenings of the
sexually charged murders...

You name it and it doesn't matter. This country's priorities are sub-basement. The dollar...the dollar...the dollar...that's all that really matters anymore.

Howard Stern, the new demi-God of mass American entertainment, spends show after show, interviewing strippers and asking them all variety of
erudite questions ad nauseum, such as, "Are your tits real or are they implants?" "Do you enjoy sex during your menstrual period?" "Is anal sex a turn-on?" Etc. etc.

With all the compelling problems in the world today..with all the intelligent voices that cannot get heard on any forum...America spends
countless hours wallowing in a pig the name of First Amendment rights.

I have worked in Hollywood for many years. In my younger years, I contributed to the cultural pollution we are witnessing today. I am embarassed...I am ashamed. I pray every day God will forgive me.

My late father was right in warning me that Hollywood is a world of whores and scoundrels. And I was once one. No more. No more.

Is there any refuge from this storm of mediocrity and crap?

Beam me and my wife up, Scotty...PLEASE!

Yours Truly,

Good ol' F*

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:36 - ID#348286)
This is the week of truth for ANOTHER.
His prediction of 340. to 360. runs to about Friday.
If that ends up in the junkpile of predictions, then I would bet more stagnation under 300. and of course the Dow rambling to new Oxyen Deprived Altitudes!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:38 - ID#253418)
JP You have a good memory
Jp you have a good memory of the last bull now what 20 years ago. There is precious little to suggest a bull market has commenced yet. Long term trend lines are all headed down, all rallies to 300 have been turned back and tonight when there should at least be some emotional lift given the Sippergate news we are down. The bottom may be near or in fact in, but we're certainly in no more than a consolidation base building phase - IF the lows hold.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:38 - ID#340459)
I think that POG will make substantial move up this week due to BC problems
I feel that this might be a good week for PM's, any views ?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:41 - ID#284255)
From the grapevine.
Just heard a rumour on the phone while discussing Asia with a friend.

This friend was saying that tons of gold had been shipped from Indonesia to a mine in Papua New Guinea where it was being smelted down and shipped out with the mines gold production.
I queried the quantity and my friend said that the info had come from a reliable source high up in the mines staff and that the quantity had been huge.

Sounds like someone wealthy is getting their assets out of the country.

Quixotic 1
(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:42 - ID#48200)
"Lee Certified Coins" gets Three Thumbs UP !!!
Donald_A and All, ( Donald_A, RE your 19:27 on 3-14-98 )

FWIW: After several long discussions about pre-33 gold coins with a couple of friends, we decided to pull out the phonebook and look for coin shops in the area. Lee Certified coins surfaced as a short road trip. The coin shop turned out to be an appointment only business, no retail. Our initial apprehension about the 30-minute drive was quickly resolved after the first 5 minutes of meeting with this firm, despite the unannounced visit. They had a very large inventory, very fair pricing, and was more than willing to spend whatever time we needed. Their expertise and integrity made an indelible impression on all of us.

Gold for the good guysGMJ

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:42 - ID#113316)
The sexual aspects of Clinton-gate seem to be more farce than tragedy.

US justice system is trying to determine if anyone at the executive level of government conspired to obstruct justice. This includes lying after swearing an oath to tell the truth.

The tragedy comes from those who dismiss as unnecessary honorable and honest behavior from our politicians. Very few have these characteristics, and very few make great leaders.

Time to get movin'.......Go Team Gold!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:44 - ID#348286)
You can call Howard Stern a lot of names, but no-one can call him a liar.......

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:45 - ID#347235)
AJ Thank you for your support and all other you have answered my questions yesterday and tried to make me feel welcome here, I have truely tried to stop the invective and not start anything else,

NOW MOZEL It is time for this crap to stop, apparently you cannot deal with a Person who is proud of being Jewish and also proud to have served in the best Army there is long enough to retire. Someone who refuses to be intimidated by the like of you. I am proud of many things in my life but do not feel obligated to justify my self to you. And if you have a problem with that. DU KANST KUSS MICH AM TICHAS, hopefully I wont have to address this again. I am not hard to get along with but you hit a couple of my hot buttons.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:47 - ID#411112)
farfel;great post..don't feel that I'am 45 I can't believe how dumb I was at 20...

that why...only folks over 40 and own property should be allowed to vote..let me correct that only men over 40

(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:51 - ID#251166)
@ aurator [re. this morning]; Allen (USA) [re. this evening]


The correct spelling is *doo-doo.*

Otherwise, your references to an extinct flightless bird are incomprehensible.



(Sun Mar 15 1998 21:56 - ID#340459)
Can anyone pls post the Asian POG now ? and web address of this site please

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:00 - ID#433286)
robnoel re: your 21:47 post don't know how much in jest that was meant to have
been. What thought would you give to one at least being a net tax payer to qualify to having voting rights?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:03 - ID#304282)
Great idea Goldhawk but
it will never happen.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:06 - ID#57232)
Always a pleasure to hear from you
Old Soldier: You have my support too. I have respect for mozel's intellect and knowledge of history. But -- I do not agree with many of his opinions -- and have had my feathers ruffled several times in dialogues with him. It is my hope that mozel's rough edges will smooth a bit with time on Kitco. We must be patient, I think.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:07 - ID#286199)
HONG KONG ( AP ) - Gold in Hong Kong opened at $295.35 an ounce on Monday, up 60 cents from Saturday's close of $294.75.

Metals graphs 24 hours per day

Spot pricing ( when it's connected )

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:08 - ID#413109)
Email replies please
Date: Sun Mar 15 1998 21:35
farfel ( AMERICA TODAY... ) ID#339265:
You, young sir, have asked and ansered your own questions, while expressing your views.
They have little bearing on gold, and I would like to help keep this site focussed on PMs, but
wish to take a moment to state that the type of behavioral deterioration, is not just and AMERICAN
phenomenon, but can be seen in London, Paris, Tokyo, Ankorage, Telaviv, etc. I've seen the changes
over the last 50 years of travel around the world. However America can take credit for many of the
fads, many of them starting in the area where you seem to have some expertise.
Things will keep changing, and like most cycles will swing the other way, and when the swing
goes too far in the opposite direction, you won't like those results either.


(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:09 - ID#286199)
Palladium less than $20 away from Gold ( it's running hot, straight and normal )

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:17 - ID#334280)
Farfel...what a filthy imagination
Farfel, What a filthy imagination you have. You talk in generalities as if you know something... like your prediction last month of a Dow 10,000 by the end of March.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:19 - ID#411112)
it was in jest...then again people who own property understand responsibilty...however the last
election proves a point bill won on the minority vote,women,blacks,hispanics,gays,welfare deadbeats,government workers,and the labour unions....all get government largess.....they not all, lack personal responsibilty,the key to a free society

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:22 - ID#333126)
re: oil and gold
Old Gold: astute observation ( the AFR uses a bearish gold analyst ) -- I might just go and buy those out-of-the-money dec 98 or sometime 99 gold calls today ...

JP @16:20 : you have a point but the coming deflationary period, will be, imho, something other than the "expected" ... even for veteran kitco-ites.

One good thing to note is that the most money to be made is always at the turning points in the cycle ( dy/dx=0 ) ... unfortunately, these points in time are usually highly interesting times ( remember that old Chinese curse? )

good luck all and happy investing. :- )

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:27 - ID#57232)
Clinton problems -- popularity at high water mark
All: I have had women approach me in my place of work, in need of assistance -- I have a managerial role. I try to treat everyone the same way, as long as they are professional and do their jobs.

I would never approach any woman at work in a way that might be considered sexual -- as that is not professional. All individuals -- male or female are expected to work because of their intellectual skills -- not other talents. BC has violated this rule of ethics.

I would never take advantage of another who has asked for assistance in some major problem linked with work -- an illness in the famiily, financial crisis, etc. BC has violated this rule also.

The latter is an even more serious moral infraction than the former, as it reveals a serious character flaw. How could BC be thinking of sexual matters when someone like Kathleen Willey is desperately asking for help?

My guess is that BC's popularity will continue for a time, just as it did with Nixon. But -- this is the high water mark in his popularity. The 60minutes program shows that the major news media are now willing to address the truth about BC, no matter how unpleasant it is. And -- the media are crucial to a president's popularity -- as they can make or break a president -- or anyone for that matter. We can expect that investigative activity on all of the xxxgates will heat up. And, just how long will the Democrats put up with this, when they start thinking about the next presidential election? Womens rights in the workplace? Elect a BC 'clone'? Women make up nearly 1/2 of the popular vote.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:27 - ID#334280)
Quixotic 1: Buyer Beware
Quixotic 1: Is that Ed Lee, formerly of Lee Numismatics out of New Hampshire, and once highly touted by Mr. Ruff? If so, beware. I did some business with him back in the early 80's and all was very nice until I wanted to sell him back some coins six years later. Remember, the coin expert is making at least 30-40% profit on the sale or he wouldn't be in business. Next when you want to sell to a dealer, he will only pay you at most 60 cents on the dollar. So your coins would have to double in order for you to break even. Coins are for collecting, not for making money.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:33 - ID#224363)
Gold will stay low for the next 6 months
Gold is a mirror of the economic/political situation that exists in the world.

If you accept that statement as true and looked back over the last 20-30 years, I think the POG would be shown to accurately reflect sentiment about the world in general.

GOOD world .LOWER gold
BAD worldHigher gold

The political state of world is currently viewed as being 'good' versus 'bad'. America has no USSR to shout at. China is behaving itself. The middle-east is essentially the same as it always has been, etc. etc. This all has a continued negative impact on the price of gold.

We currently live in a world that is viewed as being in 'good' versus 'bad' economic shape. Arguments about the problems in Asia don't count because unless/until the Asian problems hits Europe and North America, there will be no impact on the price of gold.

Investors of the world want 'return' and 'growth', they want 10% minimum and 20%-30% preferably. Gold in their mind just won't cut it and for a safe harbor, they'll buy a few $US or bonds.

The central bankers are human. Their sales of gold simply reflect the view of the societies that they live in.

So what will it take to drive the POG up?

A period of increasingly poor economic news from the US combined with the start of debt crisis. This is not going to happen in the next few months so don't hold your breath.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:35 - ID#335190)
FWIW @ Any Place "ISM"
The Fountainhead - By Ayn Rand - 1943 - An exposition of the author's anticommunist ( economic doctrine ) philosophy of "objectivism" - struggle of genius architect - confronts conformist mediocrity.

In COMMON LAW or CIVIL LAW countries that adhere to the "liberal" political ideology --- "liberalism" stresses the maximization of individual freedom, the limitation of government powers through laws enacted by representative legislatures, and equality in the application of the law---judges are expected to be impartial as possible.
Impartiality implies that judges must hear a case with an open mind, without being biased in advance toward any of the litigants. Absolute impartiality is a human impossibility.

Take Care

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:37 - ID#257136)
To our northern neighbor, Mr. 6PAC
I can only speak for myself, but if you screw me once ( by a lie, theft, cheating or sneakin' about ) it's a case of" shame on you".
If you screw me twice by ANY means, it's shame on me!

I have been blessed with the opportunity to vote against the Coward Erect ( thanx Tolerant1 for the description ) ever since 1981 when I moved to Arkansas.
To me a proven liar and "carpetbagger" is not worthy of any positive consideration from me.
The numero uno ano has been known to most of us here as what he is. Unfortunately, the majority do not mind bein' screwed over. They actually believe that all the goodies of the welfare state were provided them by the ol' ano numero uno!
I know better. If you have a dog which sucks eggs, you don't trust it around a hen house geographically removed from your own.
Unless of course the dog is bringin' some of the neighbor's eggs home to you!
Would you want a daughter of yours workin' as an intern in the casa
blanca with ano numero uno? Not I, sir!
There are many humans as worthless as the protubernces on bacon rind. ol'B.J. leads the pack!
Never done an honest day's work and not likely to, unless he ends up in a prison in some other nation!
We can only hope!! For the dope ( user ) from Hope.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:37 - ID#57232)
I must regretfully agree with you
PMF: I think you are right -- no major gold rallies for a time -- until the US economy and the US dollar starts to head south. But -- we could reach 320-350 by the end of 1998 -- we can hope anyway.

I will be happy just to confirm a bottom.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:38 - ID#334280)
robnoel_A: Your 22:19 was you jesting again, right?
robnoel_A: Your 22:19 refers to all the gays, govt. workers, minorities who voted for Clinton as "...they not all, lack personal responsibility." I am so thankful for this opportunity to hear from someone who seems to know what true freedom ( as opposed to untrue freedom ) really is. You're jesting again right?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:46 - ID#433286)
Tricky- ah well none of my " great ideas" ever work.
c above

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:48 - ID#257136)
To Mr. 6pac again!
Perhaps it would be more to your liking if ol' slick was to be acquitted the same as Msgt Mc Kinney?
Innocent of sexual harassment. Guilty of One count of obstruction of jjustice.
Since he ( b.j. ) is commander in chief, he should be held to the same standard we have been and are being held to.
I could live with the ol' coward erect being convicted on only one felony rap.
No more rights as a citizen; unable to practice law; he'd have to do some task of actual value for the first time in nis life.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:50 - ID#347235)
Thanks for your support maybe he will see the error of his ways soon,other than his apparent dislike of independent Jews he seem reasonably intelligent.

Old Soldier
(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:50 - ID#185274)
Handle Confusion
JTF, 22:06, and several others. I think some confusion has developed about the handles OLD SOLDIER and RETIRED SOLDIER. OLD SOLDIER has been lurking for 18 months and posting for about 2 months. RETIRED SOLDIER started posting a few days ago as JEWBOY and had Bart change him to RETIRED SOLDIER. We are not the same person.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:51 - ID#304282)
N Korea
Anybody concerned about the recent actions in N Korea? This has bee kept out of the main stream media. Couldn't come at a worser time w/ our military size ata all time low, clinton scandals, and asia financial crisis. This could bring the DOW back to reality in a hurry and wake up gold.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:51 - ID#57232)
From the News media -- Kathleen Willey says BC is a liar!

Them's fightn words -- for BC lawyer R. Bennett. I get a kick out of the fact that R. Bennett is William Benett's brother -- the fellow who was the 'Drug Czar' and wrote that little book of fables. Oh well, I guess the Bennett family is entitled to have one 'black sheep' in their midst.

Interesting though that the 'black sheep' of the Bennett family is BC's lawyer. What about the backgrounds of the other lawyers that work for BC? I find it amazing that Kenneth Starr is still in one piece, given the hight powered lawyers on the other side.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:52 - ID#347235)
@ Old Soldier
Sorry about the confusion and any problems you may be having. Hopefully the investive will stop soon

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:53 - ID#335190)
a.j. @ 22:37
My daughter has confronted such happenings. Yes, she lost her job. Yes, it was immediate confrontation by my daughter, against the bastard ( suit ) mr. big shot. He knows what happened, my daughter knows what happened, I know what happened. Mr. Big shot has the problem, life will come and get you, when you lest expect it.

Take Care.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:54 - ID#255217)
Farfel and all, IMVHO
After reading Farfel's post ( America Today ) , I feel moved to agree with his sentiments and say that I am so saddened by what I see today in my country that I am ashamed to proclaim myself an American anymore.

I am not by nature a prescient person, but it became so obvious to me ten or more years ago that our country was headed in the wrong direction, that I determined to move away from the city and establish myself in a rural environment at the first opportunity if for no better reason than to protect myself from what I then considered an increasingly dangerous situation in our urban population centers.

My fears have been justified, but I didn't foresee the degree to which our country would decline in the ensuing years. Our current Head of State is so obviously guilty of scandulous if not TREASONOUS behavior that it defies reason ( mine at least ) . Our elected members of Congress are so consumed with their own agendas and prestige that they hardly have the time to devote to their primary duty as guardians of their constituencies. The courts have long since abrogated their duties as caretakers of the Constitution through proper interpretation of its true meaning and intent as the protector of the rights of the people FROM THEIR GOVERNMENT.

Well, I made my move and have no regrets. I continue to believe in the power of gold ( and silver ) to protect me from the fiscal excesses of government, but only to a limited degree. They have no power to protect me from government at the point of a gun. I believe it was Lenin who said that power flows from the barrel of a gun and he was right. And it was Harry Browne who said that when the agents of the IRS come to your house, wearing their dark suits and demand that you pay what THEY say you owe, their authority to collect ULTIMATELY flows from the barrel of that same gun. It is a sorry state of affairs to which our country has come!
And perhaps, just perhaps, we are getting our just desserts!

Hooray for gold! Hooray for silver! God, send us some LEADERS!

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:54 - ID#411112)
Think about this if property owners were the only ones who could vote Bill could'nt vote

bottom line in America today the minoritys control the majority,because they are to scared in this PC climate being labled,a raciest,homofob, old socialist ploy that still works today

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:56 - ID#225273)
Market Comments
To all:

I haven't posted my Market Comments in several days due to a great deal of computer trouble and never knowing when and for how long one of the computers would be working. But the desktop is in the shop now and the laptop is working well.

Obviously, my prediction of gold to $312 by March 11 did not come true. It has not broken down and I think it has at least one good kick to the upside left. The price has been declining along its 100-day MA. I look for it to take that out this week and move at least to the 200-day MA at $311.44 by month's end.
Once there, I'll have to re-evaluate.

The XAU broke through its 100-day MA last week. It now has the 200-day in its sights. That MA sits at 88.70. Also, the July '97 low was around 86. So the XAU should encounter some stiff resistance around this level.

I would like to reitterate that if gold and gold stocks are in a meaningful uptrend, then they need to see some explosive action to move above both MAs and the two-year downtrend lines before this leg expires. And the stochastics on the weekly charts are getting into overbought range but still have some room to run.

ABX has surmounted both its 100-day MA and the July '97 low with ease. It challenged its 200-day MA last week and got thrown back. It is the leader among the seniors and I'm looking for a successful challenge of the 200-day MA this week and a run to the $25.00 area.

Coeur d'Alene has risen above both its 200-day MA and its July '97 low. Although considered a silver stock, it has actually done better than ABX on this technical score. Hopefully, the action in these two shares is a prelude to what's in store for the others.

In silver, the rising 100-day MA sits at $5.93. Silver has so far held this level. The stochastics on the weekly chart are still pointing downward but have reached mid-range. Also the two components of the stochastics indicator have moved fairly far apart == 39.16 to 52.79. This is somewhat unusual and there is usually at least a short-term turn in the market when the spread becomes this large. The short-term turn allows the gap to lessen. So, I'm looking for a short-term turn in the silver price to correspond to a higher gold and XAU price.

The U.S. dollar had a terrible day on Friday and has lost more ground tonight. The stochastics on the weekly chart of the Dollar Index have turned straight down. The price, at 99.58, is looking to make another try at breaking the 100-day MA. Hopefully, this time it will go through and the dollar bear will come to the fore.

In the Dow; based on the Dow Theory buy signal generated in early February, the Dow has enjoyed a good run. Now, with weekly stochastics between 92 and 95, it's getting medium-term overbought. The stochastics are beginning to turn downward but nothing definitive as of yet.
I look for the Dow to begin the process of retesting its 100-day and 200-day MAs around the 8,000 level soon -- maybe tomorrow.

The Preacher

(Sun Mar 15 1998 22:57 - ID#57232)
My mistake!
Retired Soldier: My comments should have been directed to you, but they still stand. I do prefer your new 'call sign' rather than the old one -- didn't know what to make of the old one.

OldSoldier: I thought I was replying to you in my last post. Sorry for the confusion! Any opinions about North Korea? It must be getting warm enough for troops to move -- smoke screen or the real thing?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:08 - ID#152163)
Will gold re-test January lows?
The chart in gold looks awfully week. Although I am bullish gold long-term, the
trend-line is definitely down. Was the January-February bounce just that? Are
we going to new lows?
I'm a new trader and made money when gold hit $280. Now, I'm short at
$301 ( basis June ) . Comments?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:09 - ID#238422)
Retired Soldier
I'm just curious, what is INDEPENDENT Jew you
mentioned in your 22:50. Is this something special
or my question is just stupid?
Don't take it in any way but as my sincere curiosity...

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:10 - ID#347235)
Old Soldier
Old soldier if you Are SGM Ray Moran please post an e-mail, that was how he always greeted friend and encourage same

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:11 - ID#210235)
Just got my copy of The Sovereign Individual. You recommended it a few times, also read about it in a financial newsletter. Had to special order it as no bookstore in this area carries it, but only took 2 days for my Independent Bookseller to get it.

Thanks for one more push in the right direction. Good read.

Old Soldier
(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:12 - ID#185274)
Korea Military Situation
JTF, North Korea is in very bad shape. They have taken food from the people to feed the Army but the Army is not in prime condition either. I do not think they will launch a significant attack. If they do, it will not be a replay of Korean War I. South Korea may have economic problems but it is very strong militarily. Despite the degraded state of U.S. forces on and in support of the peninsula, we are far better able to respond effectively than in Korean War I.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:12 - ID#210235)
Who posted the 23:08 and how did you do that?

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:13 - ID#347235)
@ Oris
I am a very independent person who wont yake a bunch of crap, many of my Jewish friends and reletives are still intimidated by the Holocaust and will try to blend rahter than proclaim themselve which is what I Do thanx

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:14 - ID#113316)
Starr vs Bennett
Is it conceivable Starr subpoenas Bennett? Nah....its late and I'm already dreaming.


(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:17 - ID#57232)
Currency Investments and the LBMA
All: Brief post before logging off.

All of you should look carefully at foreign currency investments as an alternative to equities, or commodities. I was amazed to learn that most international banks offer investments in all the major currencies -- CD's, etc.

If you are good at determining long term trends in currencies -- not too hard for a gold bug -- you can do much better than the typical 20% per year in the stock market.

What you do is put some assets into an international bank, borrow a weak currency on margin -- up to 80%, and buy the currency you think will go up. If you are correct about buying the currency that goes up, and borrowing one that goes down -- over a period of several years -- you can make alot of money without much of the stress generated by investing in the markets right now.

To understand some of the activities of the LBMA, consider gold a cheap currency with low interest loan rates that is steadily going down vs the dollar. So -- investors borrow gold on up to 80% margin on the international markets, and buy US dollars. Works great as long as the price of gold ( in dollars ) is going down. But -- just wait till the tables are turned! Then US dollars will be sold, and gold will be bought.

And many large firms ( CB's? ) may wind up on the wrong side of the fence.

If the Japanese Yen , or the EURO strengthens in the near future relative to the dollar, more US dollars will be sold, too!

A strong dollar feeds on itself, but so does a weak dollar. Likewise for gold.

Old Soldier
(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:18 - ID#185274)
Another Day in Paradise
Retired Soldier, My customary greetng is above. In certain settings it garnered a god bit of needed comic relief. I am a retired Infantry Colonel. I don't know that sergeant major.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:24 - ID#57232)
Logging off -- G'Nite all!
Old Soldier: Thanks. Your posts always make sense -- I gather that during the original Korean war we were caught off guard. But -- it worries me when a totalitarian state starts rattling sabers. What if the internal situation was so bad that risking loss in war was better than certain defeat from internal forces? Perhaps one does need to examine North Korea in that light -- hard to do that with a closed society.

Quixotic 1
(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:30 - ID#48200)
Lee Coins still gets three thumbs up !!
Yes, the one and same, Ed Lee from Merrimack New Hampshire. The perspective and rational for my input stems from a desire to diversify from American Eagles and Mapleleaf bullion coins, as well as PM equities. I have done extensive research on pricing, market conditions and liquidity. I offer my comments in comparison to other retail dealers, available to the retail public. I am not interested in selling at this time. Yes, any dealer has a buy/sell spread. They are in business to make a profit, and pay overhead. Ed Lee's buy/sell spread averaged about 16%. This seems more than fair to me, especially in comparison to other dealers and "Investment Houses". I have had many dealers suggest and push what they have in inventory. This was not the case with Mr. Lee's company. The three of us were interviewed for our motivations and objectives, even before one drop of gold hit the desk. I have purchased 46 Saints in the past 3 months, and have developed a good sense for the market. I feel comfortable doing business with this company.
The coin market cycles peaked in '75, '81 and '89. Is it possible that the lag time between your purchase and sell point was during a down market cycle. I have seen this many times in the firearms business. A compelling reason stirs up demand, prices move up, compelling reason abates, prices drop, then you have a lot of pissed off customers. E.g. the 1994 Crime Control Bill, everyone that ever thought about buying an assault rifle, now owns 10 of them. Current liquid market is about 35% of peak. Classic buy the rumor, sell the news.
My current numismatic coin purchases are for long term off shore purposes. Can you suggest any other opportunities to purchase pre-33 gold coins? I am always in the market for quality coins at a fair price. I would take a personal recommendation of an advertisement any day. IMHO, I struck an honest grade of pay dirt in Merrimack New Hampshire ( pun intended ) .

Gold for the good guysGMJ

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:31 - ID#344308)

for all the soldiers---

n korea can turn seoul into ashes in 20 min with
the artillery currently in place.

Old Soldier
(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:33 - ID#185274)
Korea then and now
JTF, The U.S. basically stood down after WWII. When the North Koreans attacked the south, we had few forces there and they were in a complete state of disarray. Elements of the 24th Infantry Division and other units in Japan were formed as Task Force Smith and sent in as quickly as possible. They were under manned, out-gunned and nearly defeated. It was a great humiliation for the U.S. Read "This Kind of War" by T.N. Fharenbach. ( sp ) it is one of the best evaluations of war from the bottom up that you will find.

Actually, if the North Koreans were smart they would in reality pull the ole joke about attacking the U.S. and surrendering immediately so we would rebuild them.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:33 - ID#344308)

another barrage---


(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:40 - ID#344308)

world gold council report.....all records broken......

Old Soldier
(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:44 - ID#185274)
Cherokee, I read those itms you posted. I simply disagree. These things have been going on for decades. I think NK is well past its prime. As ever though, we shall see.
BTW, NK could no more destroy Seol in 20 minutes than the U.S.could destroy North Vietnam in 12 years. Much sound an hype signifying nothing.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:46 - ID#280245)
US hedge funds: Investors bet on banking paralysis
By Simon Davies Capital Markets Editor

US hedge funds have taken substantial bets in the financial markets
that the millennium bomb will paralyse the banking system on
January 1 2000, forcing interest rates higher.

Futures brokers said there had been heavy selling of December 1999 futures contracts in US and German interest rates, in a financial transaction nicknamed the millennium fly. A trader in New York said
more than $5bn of contracts had been sold.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:49 - ID#238422)
Retired Soldier
O.K., I got your point...Thanks.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:49 - ID#347235)
@ Vronsky
Fred Reifenberg ask me to contact you pls give email

The Hatt
(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:53 - ID#294232)
Those CRAZY AUSSIES are trashing gold as usual!
Back to normal tonite gold down over $1.00 in Australia, guess they did not see 60 minutes tonight.

(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:57 - ID#25295)
60 minutes????

desert rat
(Sun Mar 15 1998 23:58 - ID#269118)
Saigon porkchops

Being of sound mind and body and cogniznant of the dangers of
off topic query,can anyone give the date and time of the porkchop