Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 00:00 - ID#280245)
Berkshire Hathaway: US shares may not be overvalued

By William Lewis in New York

Stock prices should not be viewed as overvalued as long as US companies continue to achieve strong return on equity and stable interest rates are maintained, says Warren Buffett, the US investor known as the Sage of Omaha.

In his annual letter to shareholders in Berkshire Hathaway, the investment company, he said that, if returns on equity "still remain exceptionally high" and interest rates held near recent levels, "there is no reason to think of stocks as generally overvalued", adding: "On the other hand, returns on equity are not a sure thing to remain at, or even near, their present levels.

He said: "Prices are high for both businesses and stocks", meaning "we get relatively little in prospective earnings when we commit fresh money". As a result, Berkshire had made some so-called alternative investments, including acquiring 111.2m ounces of silver which produced a pre-tax gain of $97.4m In February Mr Buffett announced that Berkshire owned 129.7m ounces of silver, approximately 20 per cent of the world's supply.

In his first explanation for taking the stake, he said inflationary expectations played no part in his calculation of silver's value.

"In recent years, bullion inventories have fallen materially, and last summer Charlie [Munger, Berkshire's vice-chairman and Mr Buffett's partner] and I concluded that a higher price would be needed to establish equilibrium between supply and demand," he said.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 00:03 - ID#238422)
Old Soldier
Sir, off-topic question, If I could, please.
I'm mechanical engineer and also have a hobby -
- I customize military rifles for hunting and target
purposes. The first thing I always look at in any
firearm is its reliability and strength, then accuracy.
I have a childish question - is M-16 a good COMBAT weapon?
I never shot one, but handled one few times. Looks
a little bit like a toy to me. Your brief comments
would be appreciated. I'm an expert in AK-47 ( 74 ) technology,
but would like to know the your opinion as a professional.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 00:08 - ID#335190)
More @ Any place "ISM"
existentialism \-"ten ( t ) -she-'li-zem\ noun ( 1941 ) : a chiefly 20th century philosophical movement embracing diverse doctrines but centering on analysis of individual existence in an unfathomable universe and the plight of the individual who must assume ultimate responsibility for his acts of free will without any certain knowledge of what is right or wrong or good or bad ( C ) 1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved.

Existentialism :[ German Existentialismus, a derivative of existentiell grounded in existence, existential] A family of philosophies devoted to an interpretation of human existence in the world that stresses its concreteness and its problematic character.

As a self-conscious movement it is primarily a 20th-century phenomenon, embracing the theories of Martin Heidegger, Karl Jaspers, Jean-Paul Sartre, Gabriel Marcel, and Maurice Merleau-Pony, but its characteristic features occurred earlier, especially in the 19th century thinkers Friedrich Nietzsche and Soren Kierkegaard.

According to existentialists, human beings are not solely or even primarily knowers; they also care, desire, manipulate, and, above all, choose and act. Second, the self, or ego, required by some if not all traditional epistemological doctrines, is not a fundamental entity but rather emerges from experience.

It is an important tenet of existentialism that the individual is not a detached observer of the world, but "in the world" A person "exists" in a special sense in which entities like stones and trees do not; a human being is "open" to the world and to objects in it.

Further, humans, unlike other entities, make themselves what they are by choices, choices of ways of life, ( Kierkegaard ) or of particular actions. ( Sartre ) Existentialism inspired a large body of imaginative literature.

Existentialist writers are characterized by their concern with "being" which contrasts not only with knowing but also with abstract concepts, which cannot fully capture what is individual and specific.

FWIW......Take Care

(Mon Mar 16 1998 00:11 - ID#280245)
Preview: Asia crisis expected to affect Wall Steet
By William Lewis in New York

Economic data to be released this week are expected to show the Asian crisis is beginning to affect the US trade position and that industrial production fell last month following 22 consecutive monthly advances. However, other data are expected to provide further confirmation of a lasting low inflation environment in the US.

On Thursday, analysts and traders are expecting to see the trade deficit having widened to $11.5bn in January from $10.8bn in December and a $9.5bn monthly average for 1997. Both exports and imports are expected to have fallen.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 00:16 - ID#347457)
@Allen on Y2K Article
Allen, unfortunately many of these articles are written by people who have no clue what they talk about. While I agree that we will experience problems, claim of about only 10% code converted is misunderstood.

Yes, Citibank will convert only 10% of their code, as well as SSA converted only 15% of their code, but not because they ran out of time, but because only 10% of code had Y2K problem ( SSA is much more date sensitive, therefore the number is higher. )

Typical IS software contains just about 5-10% of date sensitive code which may have Y2K problem. Yes you have to examine all of it but you dont need to convert all of it.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 00:39 - ID#288140)
Did you see my note about Tony Packo?

As long as you brought up the topic and Old Soldier might answer, I have a related question for him. In combat is fully automatic mode of fire or semi automatic mode the best selection for a shoulder weapon like M-16?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 00:50 - ID#238422)
Sam, I'm sorry, just forgot. Sure, I've seen your
victory report on pickles. Well done, buddy!
Tony Packo's is one of the best, and I'm happy
you liked it. Oris knows the stuff, right?

Old Soldier will answer your question, I guess...

I can tell you that what I've seen, in CLOSE combat
boys like to fire full-auto to get the job done
for sure, but if they are sitting in trenches and distance
is more then 75-100 yards, and no big rush, repeated
single shots make more sense...just my understanding.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 00:56 - ID#255284)
Sometimes I get a little concerned I might be posting off-topic and may. like Earl last month, be unfairly dragged across the coals by Bart. Then I read yesterday's posts, and know I am in safe company.

Mike Sheller, our gastronmical astrologer, put it rather well earlier yesterday, there are many parts to an elephant, and with everyone's help, we can put this beast together.

Thanks to Bartman for turning his Nelson's eye over his creation.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 00:58 - ID#401460)
Presidential Crises

The Presidential Crises will come to the front by noon tomorrow. If the markets repeat their past pattern, Gold should start to move back up.

Gold may move even tonight before the US open. CNN news reports of Clinton's latest problem Lady, are very concise and to the point, with no question of being fact or not - does not matter anymore, the man has a Big problem.

"Not just sexual harassment, now it is sexual assault" " He groped her breasts and put her hand on his erection" Feminist on CNN.

My God people that's the President of the United States of America they are talking about!
How many women have to come forward before
the blind liberals say enough get rid of this guy.

"An impeachable offence" "Sexual Assault" "Whitness tampering" Potential jail time involved.

The Democratic Party may appraoch the President soon, asking for his resignation. The Country has to have a respected leader who is not under assault at home. And the Democratic Party has to protect itself form this trash.

It's Make a Deal Time, for the President.


(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:01 - ID#251268)
Oris eh my imagination?
or a little test for the Soldier?my guess is you know~~~
ah good to see a little range in pog,although I'm sure its
a thinnnn market out there so far----we will see,AK 47 M16
a jaw bone of an ass,its not the weapon but whos using it.
the wine is kicking in forgive my caustic nature coming out.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:10 - ID#347235)
In close nothing beats a shotgun 00 buck tore up many VC in the area I was in,further out nothing beat and M1 or M14 for accuracy.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:11 - ID#288140)
Aurator- That was wonderful Teriyaki story. Thanks! Also to JTF, Bill2j and for the interesting history and insights.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:12 - ID#251268)
noway this guy is stepping down for getting a h-rdon,its
just another project for the SBAT ( save bills ass team ) DO you
realy think anyone in the democratic party is in a hury for
Al Gore to be Pres.? --NOT--Clinton would start a war before
he resigned IMHO

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:18 - ID#238422)
No problem, wine is wine, I do know
what you mean... By the way, I would
really like to know what pros think
about M-16. If you know, tell me,
I hope I'm not asking to reveal top secret...
POG is not moving, so what should we
talk about? Everything is said, we just
sit in the trenches...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:22 - ID#238422)
Retired Soldier
Thanks for your input. M1 and M14 look to me
like solid pieces. What about M-16?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:26 - ID#255284)
my pleasure.

where's those pesky strines?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:32 - ID#288140)
Don't know, I haven't checked in here much today.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:39 - ID#288140)
This mercan has got to get some shuteye. See later alligaters.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:40 - ID#288140)
insert "ya" in front of 'gaters

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:41 - ID#401460)

It is not about having a stiff rod.

Don't you understand the laws of the land, or are you just ignoring them because he is just a good old boy who likes to grope and put women's hands on his dick before he demands a BJ.

No different then you?

And I assume from your response you see nothing wrong with the President's handling of his Sex problem - I therefore assume you would do the same if in the same situation and are of the same high moral character as our President.

Sexual Harassment
Sexual Assault
Witness Tampering
etc. etc.

And if you don't know what it is about by now you never will.

Gore is no better for sure, but it is not my decision. The Democratic Party or what ever may be left of it, will eventually step in - they have no choice, unless Clinton has to much on them too. He has the FBI files still in his possession.

As long as Rubin and the boys stay, that is who has been running the economy, not Clinton.

Frankly, jman I really don't care what happens to the President, he has put himself in this situation and can blame no one else for his actions. It is history, and he may be history,

I only care about my investments and what effects his actions are having and will have on them in the future.


(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:41 - ID#288140)
man, am I out of it

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:45 - ID#251268)
Oris sorry cant help
I got guns but got to hide them from my wife or she might
shoot me when I take all are money and buy gold!ha I guess
I watch too much tv because it looks like the drug dealers
got better guns than the army.--Okay goodnight all see you
in the morning and hope POG is MOVING

Quixotic 1
(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:46 - ID#48200)
Colt with 2 shot burst pack, 2 to go...
Sam, Oris, All...
IMVHO, The M16 is a very formidable and capable fighting firearm. Through the years, many design changes have been made to the M16 system. If I had only one rifle system to select from, my first choice would be an M16-A2-M4 carbine. For an all around CQB, in the brush and out to two hundred yards, you can't beat the versatility. As with any weapon system, Train-Train-Train, and know you enemy and environment. I would consider the addition of a selectable 2-shot burst function as well as full auto. In the analysis of real life situations, manual firing control and bursting, is something that is learned in the higher functions of the brain. During an adrenaline dump, natural and learned instincts take over, and shooters don't even know there out of ammo. The burst function conserves ammo and dramatically improves muzzle control. My only caveat to the Colt system, I would stay away from the 9mm rifle systems. Colt is still having magazine feed problems in the off calibers.
FWIW, I shoot with a LE team. 99% of the time, all firing is done in semiauto or 2 shot burst. Full auto looks and sounds neat, but it really doesn't have a place in professional combat training. This also doesn't touch on the subject of maintaining a burst control fire mechanism with its 110-page manual and 82 springs, pins, levers and parts. Moral of the storySick with a stock, Colt brand, New in the Box, AR15.

Gold for the Good GuysGMJ

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:48 - ID#251268)
wo are =our and
WHAT happened to silver 12 cent jump? or Kitco warming up
for the week?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:50 - ID#257148)
A sovereign in 1903 bought how many chickens?

As i look at my pile of soverinis, I am wondering what I could buy for a sovereign, say in 1903, one of the minting dates.

I'd be obliged for some direction, URL, whatever.

I'd be interested also to know how much would I need to labour to earn a sovereign and what it would've bought then. I have posted already about the bloke who sold them to me, how in wonder he was that he himself owned sovereigns as he could not imagine that as a child.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:51 - ID#393224)
May Pork Bellies 42350 +125
Forget about that other stuff!!

Oh, alright!
Apr. gold 2947 -12
May silver 6085 -50

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:53 - ID#401460)

I think there is a possibility that the reason Janet Reno didn't go after Campaign Financing is that she would have put the Vice Presidency in harms way also - and they all knew that they may have need of the VP to step in as Pres.

Also remember Gore comes from some strong Democratic Stock. If he can't win an election what better way to get him into the top job.

A war I agree is a strong possibility.

The President may get one on two fronts if he is not careful.


(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:57 - ID#431263)
Slick is sick
The end is in sight for BC! Even the liberal media is shaking their heads in utter disbelief and amazement at Clinton's recklessness in office. BC is a sick man who needs immediate psychological counseling! The Press can no longer cover-up for Clinton's sleaze. The establishment has used up Clinton and will now sacrifice him before the fall elections. Clinton has no credibility! If he doesn't resign he will be impeached. The stakes are simply too high to keep him in office. How can he talk to young people about moral responsibility and making correct choices about sex, drugs and alcohol? He's a laughingstock not only at home, but also abroad! He has zero respect! If he stays in office, the US will be tested all over the world and challenged as never before. The sharks are circling the oval office and they smell blood. The feeding frenzy is about to begin and it will not relent till BC steps down. This time Slick has gone too far! The tapes and depositions and television interviews are about to destroy him! His history of sexual misconduct has finally caught up to him and these allegations will not go away till he has either been exonerated or convicted in a court of law! The US dollar is about to get torched and gold is about to get dear--just like Palladium!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:59 - ID#251268)
Hey Hey Hey Highrise!
Excuse me I AGREE with you,my post had to do with whatB.C.
will do not what I think he ought to do.I don't think He will
step down ever,they will have to drag him out.The point about
Gore is that the Democratic party is in a lose lose situation
so I don't see the presure to resign coming from them,but maybe
and I think He's done worse than we even Know

(Mon Mar 16 1998 01:59 - ID#255151)
G'Day Fellow Kitcoites

Miro--You replied some months ago to one of my questions about the Y2K problem. I would like to know what you think now. How severe do you think the fallout will be? Go Gold!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 02:07 - ID#255151)

G'day sharefin. Interesting story on Indonesian Gold being spirited out of the country. My guess would be Suharto family and/or Riady. Any thoughts?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 02:32 - ID#393224)
Market indicator
G'day 500.
Kitco indicator--Yanks are still awake at this ungodly hour--must mean something is going to happen in the markets tomorrow.

G'day Aurasoverini--
Not chickens, mate--pizzas per soverini!! Mail?

Ma 'Mericun mates--do you realise how your leader is making you look to the 'civilised' world?? These sexual peccadillos are now beyond a joke!! The White House is looking more and more like the revolving door of a bordello. I liked JFK. I am liking him less and less as history unfolds. Your current leader has achieved that status while still in office.

It is extremely frightening that people in the position of 'life and death control' over the entire world ( the nuclear button ) can show such a lack of self control.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 02:39 - ID#255284)

(Mon Mar 16 1998 02:50 - ID#401460)

Sorry about that, I did figure that out after I reread your post.

I do agree with you, but there is that theory about Gore. The only way he can get into the Pres. is to be put there by default, he doesn't have the pazazz to get elected on his own.

This Yank is going for the sack.

And Gold should move up a few bucks here very shortly. ( In a few hours ) London / Europe


(Mon Mar 16 1998 03:09 - ID#255284)
Div Yield? WHO CARES? Just give me Capital Apprecation...
Fundamentals don't count no more no more
In the old era, the Dow Industrials were overvalued when they reached a dividend yield below 3% and undervalued when they got to a dividend yield greater than 6%. Normal valuation would be somewhere between those two dividend yield extremes or around 4 *%. Where would the new paradigmers have us believe the new defining limits are? Lets go to an extreme on their behalf and argue that the old 3% overvalued area will now become a normal valuation area. Lets thus assume that sometime in the next four to six years, stocks will return to normal valuations ( by the new paradigm definition of normality ) and return to a dividend yield of 3%. What magnitude of decline from current levels would that entail? A decline from current levels of 45% in the Dow would bring it to a dividend yield of 3%.

( from Stock Market Cycles, Editor: Peter G. Eliades Publisher )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 03:14 - ID#255151)
Nick of Canberra

G'day! Yep, I think the back of the Clinton Presidency was broken tonight. The Sixty Minutes piece was devastating. Clinton's lawyer, Bob Bennett, looked like an utterly defeated man. You'd think this would put the markets in turmoil, but then I've thought that before. Interesting few weeks ahead, eh?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 03:30 - ID#341214)
Allen, Miro, All: Y2K

I'm afraid you misinterpreted what's in the Y2K Iceberg article. In Citibank's case, it didn't say only 10% would get done. It said that 10% of the 400 million lines needed to be repaired. Here is an extract from the article.

"Citicorp is one of America's two largest banks. Besides the fact that Citicorp has a tremendous amount of exposure in Asia, it also has a staggering number of lines of code; 400 million! It has been determined by their computer division that between 5% and 10% of this code must be repaired; thats 40 million lines!"


As for the two parts of the Iceberg series, I read them both and found them quite factual. Overall I think the author did a pretty good job of pulling together a lot of important info that is already out there on the net. I like how the author included quotes from people outside the IT industry . By the way, did any of you catch the news recently that Greenspan himself was a programmer many years ago?

Getting back to the Iceberg series, I have a couple nits to pick with it so far, both of which are minor in nature. I could probably find more but don't have the time.

* I'm not sure where the author got the high percentage of possible imbedded chip failures. His figures were 5% to 10%. I've seen 2% mentioned. Both are just estimates, of course. No one really knows and I suspect we aren't going to have much of an idea of the true figures until after the fateful date due to the difficulties in testing systems that have embedded chips.

* The author mentioned the possibility of the NRC shutting down the nuclear reactors in late 1999. They produce about 20% of the nation's electricity. He should have also mentioned that the power industry as a whole has the ability to generate about 16% excess capacity. That means if the nukes go down we are already in the hole. If we lose some of the remaining power generators that run on hydro/oil/coal some parts of the country could be up the creek and become sister cities to Auckland ( sorry Aurator ) .

Here are the main things I think we need to focus on:

* The job is not going to get done. We will still be doing Y2K remediation work in 2003 and probably beyond. Of this, I have no doubt. I have 25+ years of experience in IT and have digested a lot of Y2K material so this is one call I can make with confidence.

* Absolutely no one can predict what is going to happen on January 1, 2000 and beyond. We ( meaning the entire world ) simply have never been through such a change before. Anyone that says at this point that such and such IS going to happen is full of it! At this point anyone can say "Bad things are going to happen" and they are right but without specifics they aren't doing us a whole lot of good.

* Because the outcome can not be predicted but because that outcome could include some pretty scary things ( power grid failures, bank failures, market crashes ) you owe it to yourself to get as educated on this subject as possible and then decide if, like myself, you need to start making some preparations. Time Bomb 2000 by Yourdon and Yourdon is probably the best place to start. The intended audience of that book is non-technical people.

Good luck and good night all!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 03:36 - ID#341214)
Nick@C: While your entire post is right on your last line is especially poignant.

Night Nick.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 03:40 - ID#252391)
What reaction?
There's no reaction to Clinton's zippergate that is apparent at this point. Globex S&P down a mere 200 points, just the lower opeing the stock bulls love to jump on and buy. Gold is off 50 cents and silver has corrected back to the NY Comex close. These precious metals ( PD aside ) can't get out of their own way. Selling presure persists.

My call is for a test of 286 gold and $5.51 silver. Hope I'm wrong, but then again it'll be a better buying opportunity. Wash out of short term longs.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 03:48 - ID#255151)
Beware the Ides of March!

Wonder if Clinton has read Julius Caesar?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 04:05 - ID#393224)
Globex S & P +100.
Coupla more 60 minutes programs and we could have BC rating 100%. The American female is enamoured and the American male is jealous.

April gold and May silver coming off the lows, but only just.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 04:16 - ID#255151)

I propose a gentlemen's wager. I say the next opinion poll will show Clinton's approval rating at 51% or less. If I win, I get a years free subscription to you newsletter. If you win, I'll become a paying subscriber. We on, mate?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 04:41 - ID#185448)
Dancing chick to chick
As proposed by John Disney and others, here are the Quotes of the chicken-standard for Austria, Mon 16/03/98 9:00 am CEWT:

VIREX: 88,9086

( VIREX=Vienna Rubber-Eagle Index )

To all Antipodeans:
Got my very first OZ-Nugget delivered on friday - Nice piece of AU, indeed! Lizzy looks cute, shiny and polished - though the kanga avers rather looks like a desert-rat.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 04:44 - ID#255284)
Pooh Pooh Gentleman's wager Auric, if you've got the ovaries*1.*2

Guns I say, AK47's.

A real weapon. ( I learned that at kitco )

ohhh and silver bullets.

Your 12:05 yesterday, was the first time, I mean the first time the word ovaries has been mentioned here at kitco in 12 months I've been round.
I am still choking with laughter over your
"Well, from iron ovaries to balls of steel...I'm ready!"

I think from now on, I shall use the words balls and ovaries interchangeably, gonads is such a wierd word. Like Liebnitz's monads eh hamlet?

ovid's ovaries, not too dissimilar to mountain oysters.

remind you of NZ sharefin?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 04:45 - ID#39845)
ANOTHER takes up the reigns in Sth Korea?
Monday 16 March, 1998 ( 2:28pm AEDT )

Saudi Arabian Prince, al-Waleed bin Talal Abdel Aziz, has
announced he will invest a total of 150-million-dollars in
South Korea's Daewoo Corporation and the Hyundai Motor

A statement says the investment will involve the purchase of
convertible bonds.

The Prince will invest about 100-million dollars in Daewoo
and around 50-million in Hyundai.

The billionaire prince arrived in Seoul yesterday saying
announcing that he was interested in investments in both

Return to the World News Menu

plus from the Asia Pacific Region in Indonesian, Chinese and Tok Pisin

 1998 Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Mon Mar 16 14:30:01 1998 ( AEDT )

AEDT = Australian Eastern Daylight Time which is 11 hours ahead of UTC ( Greenwich Mean Time )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 04:49 - ID#393224)
Yer on, mate. Next opinion poll--BC over 51%-- you can have the honour of becoming our first PAID subscriber. This is a dubious honour however, as we only send out issues when we've had too much ginseng and beer!! We are expecting a more professional New Zealand-based issue on January 1, 2000. We are hoping that Auckland will have electricity within 18 months and that our N.Z. editor will have something to say ( ginseng permitting ) .
In the meantime we are sticking with Au/Ag and P.B.s. Cheers, N.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 05:04 - ID#393224)
Congratulations,mate on your purchase of Aussie gold nuggets. They are a beautiful coin -- .9999 and in proof condition, as many are, have never been touched by human hands. A true work of art, and one that will in future appreciate like a Picasso. They are worth MORE than their weight in gold, as they hold within them: trust, confidence, value, and longevity. No finer investment on earth.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 05:30 - ID#255284)
The hampsters are dying of exhaustion trying to keep the generators going for the printing presses. Cub reporter jimmie aurator has been stuck in a lift for the past week with a leventine spy, identified only as K'Rusti. K'Rusti has been muttering something about 7000 tonnes of gold and a meeting in Switzerland, he needs lots of vodka. Or was it tequila and one nugget in Vienna? Anyway it was important enough to stop the presses, buy in more ginseng, steineies and handcuffs for the subbies who are a rambuncious lot when they're not p'd to the eyeballs and haven't been paid for a fortnight...We are doing what we can..this is not the 3rd world you know.

Issh #4 will be launched on an unsuspecting public soon.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 05:37 - ID#185448)
As a matter of ethnocentrism i have been concentrated much too long to Austrian coins. The Phillie is a nice coin, also a 9999er, and usually also delivered untouched by slick and greedy hands - like a volunteer BEFORE entering a job in the white house - but I have to admit free from envy that the Nugget is a true jewel.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 05:48 - ID#255190)
Miro&Fundimetalist re: Iceberg article
You both are right. I was just, typically, overreacting and not reading well. I am a technical person. The more I read about this the more I see the devastation we will endure. I do not live in a city and am glad about that!

Miro, I very much respect your knowledge, experience and contributions. Your perspective is well founded. But I think your read on this is a bit on the rosey side. I certainly hope that we only have problems which can be worked around. In terms of preparation I will be planning for the worst.

Fundi, what exactly are you preparing for? What is the scenario you expect to have to deal with?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 05:51 - ID#255190)
Bill Clinton will not go quietly.
He and Hillary are completely committed to remaining in power. To my thinking a resignation at this point would be a real shocker ( improbable ) . It does seem that 'the enemies of Bill' really want him out of there in a bad way.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 05:51 - ID#255284)
Bonanza - Gabriel Read discover's Gabriel's Gully -- the gold rush is on..
Unfortunately I've got no picture of the Treaty of Waitangi coin that Nick sent me over, it's a beauty too, as long as you're broadening your horizons have a look at this "Collector's coin" from the RBNZ. She's a beaut!

Nick the RBNZ has released a 1/2 oz Pt coin v limited edition, from the same mold ( ? ) as the Treaty coin. E-mail them for more details. Won't that look like something else? tell them aurator sent you!


Gabriel's gully and the Martha Hill mine are in the general vicinity 50km of the centre of the earthquake you linked the other day.

Mornin Bro. I'm turnin in.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 05:56 - ID#248180)
@ Retired Soldier - Boy
Why don't you sell us your 37 ounces of Au and then you can go join Ziva.

Mike Sheller
(Mon Mar 16 1998 06:26 - ID#347447)
You want the date & time??? What are you, an astrologer? That was my personal recipe for GRILLED PORK CHOPS SAIGON STYLE ( None of this "Ho Chi Minh City" crap - this is real Saigon style pig ) .

Get a big shallow pot or cauldron or huge bowl that you can marinate stuff in, and put in a cup of Chinese or Phillipine soy sauce ( Coconut Brand soy sauce from Phillipines is the BEST! ) Add a half cup red wine Vinegar. Peel; and roughly Chop up or mash about ten cloves of garlic and throw in. At an Asian market ( Chinese or Vietnamese ) get a powder called "5 Spices" ( it has essentially Cinnamon, Garama Masala, curry, and a number of other things...don't try to make it up yourself. Get the commercial preparation ) Add a half teaspoon of the 5 Spices to the bowl.
Add a level teaspoon of mild chili powder. Add a few splashes of your favorite hot sauce. Add less than a half teasoon of sesame oil ( Chinese, not Japanese if you can get it ) Stir.

Take 6 - 10 pork chops, not too thinly cut, and marinate them in this mixture for at least 3 hours, if not half a day. Turn the chops in this mixture frequently, moving the bottom ones up to the top, etc.

Make yourself a Martini and sip it along with the rest of the recipe: Make a charcoal grill fire ( none of these ceramic "coals" or propane bullsh*t ) . Before putting on the porkchops, tie a couple of long strands of lemon grass around each one. No particular way, just to have some lemon grass around each to impasrt that flavor as they grill. Place on Grill, fairly close to coals. Cook to desired doneness. By now you should have finished your Martini, and you can serve the chops with Black Beans & White Rice or anything else you like. White rice is a good base tho. This recipe is muy authentico, da phai! Earl will attest to that, won't you Earl? This recipe is pure gold ( which justifies my mentioning it at Kitco ) and cost me almost as much as my too early gold positions last year. So value it highly...and ENJOY!

Mike Sheller
(Mon Mar 16 1998 06:35 - ID#347447)
Retired Soldier
Since we're flashing back to old Saigon here, let me add a hearty "Amen" to your comments about the M14 ( which is essentially a sporty M1, if you ask me ) . Our unit up at the Cambodian border had the option of switching to the M16, and we got a couple to test. Me and the supply sarge went out to some god-forsaken part of the camp perimeter to fire a few clips, and the bolt froze open on the third shot from my weapon. We had been getting grapevine reports of marines found dead in their fighting holes with their bolts jammed open with these rifles. I tell you the hair on the back of my neck stood up. We burned some ball, but rejected the rifles. This was in '67. When I rotated home, the company still used 14's. A great rifle for power, distance, etc. Just very heavy. I had a selector switch on mine. Talk about bringing pee. I realize that the trouble with the early M16's was the powder in the cartridges, not the rifle, but that first impression always sticks, doesn't it. Still miss my M14 - old 1363236. Still remember its serial number...sigh....

(Mon Mar 16 1998 06:47 - ID#252391)
Good Morning AMERICA
Well, another week begins with sex scandal and the DOW looking like it'll go higher while the metals are slipping, slipping away. The bullish sentiment is slowily, gradually fading away. The low at $6 Silver will soon give way; Gold will fade back down to $290 then $285. Late March to mid April is usually a weak period for the metals - this looks like another. Tip off was that silver could not rally two days in a row. It's hard to be a bull market with that type of performance.

Check in again when silver is at $5.50 and Gold at $285; we can make believe a big rally is at hand, then.

REPEAT REPEAT!!! The metals will rally when the Central Banks are preceived to have stopped selling gold. That will take place when the gold backing to the currency is announced which I believe is in late April.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 06:48 - ID#289357)
Nick@C re: Aussie Sovereigns
Nick - I found a couple of these at the coin auction - thought you'd like to take a look. Items # 8401727,8247025,8149358. Of course there are lots of other gold items ( Sov's etc. ) there. Search in Non-U.S. coins for gold or Australia. Sorry to dissapoint, but I didn't find any Italian ones for you.

Mike Sheller
(Mon Mar 16 1998 06:49 - ID#347447)
6 pak
The "liberal" "conservative" debate all hinges on the perception of "freedom." Everyone WANTS freedom. Nobody goes around saying "I don't want to be free." The "liberal" tends toward the enactment of legislation that abolishes conditions perceived to limit human freedom, using force of law to bring man his natural rights ( or at least what are perceived to be his proper freedoms ) . The conservative tends toward the preservation of evolved traditions and community choices that preserve a naturally defined way of life, while opposing legislative activity that would forcibly change what is perceived as the natural, or chosen order of things. But often these conditions impose ugly restrictions on SOME members of society as opposed to others. Naturally, the liberal's use of law is a use of force that often deprives one person of his/her rights, while conferring a privilige upon another, while the conservative fights to conserve a social convention that is in no way accountable to the individual freedom and responsibility so vociferously espoused. Each act out of prejudice, for or against "lifestyles" and "groups" and various forms of activity - ie: abortion, pornography, drug use,minority "rights" ( as though a minority can have rights any different than a "majority" ) free trade, religious or spiritual expression, sexual orientation, etc. Ultimately, Ayn Rand, whom you mention, was focused on the essential path - minimizing the intrusion of government into this evolving human expression. Inevitably, legislative cures tend to make natural rights dependent upon government largesse, and that is NOT the source of these rights. If govt can give, then it can take away. I can't tell you the answer for sure, but I do believe that both liberals and conservatives of this age are coming at the problem of maximizing human freedom, while preserving some cohesiveness and order in a society from each of their own perspectives. The duality of the human condition.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 07:10 - ID#330175)
Nothin interesting
EB:Welcome back duuude~~~~~Aurator: Mornin Bro~~~~*go Gold*

(Mon Mar 16 1998 07:21 - ID#36965)
Spot gold
Does anyone know a good site to pick up spot metals prices that is updated pretty frequently? It seems my old sites have become fairly worthless. I'm looking for gold to make its move this week; that is a move up. I'm looking for paper to become paper thin this week. This paper bull is yellow with age. eh?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 07:24 - ID#233199)
Do you neen more thant Kito'c automtic update
right here:

(Mon Mar 16 1998 07:37 - ID#224149)
The Country should be debt free SOON
Grieving Gold ---I see a young wolf shine ----- but you are not climbing this time ------ ANOTHER Religious observance. I guess? ----Ted hope everything is fine -----Away to see the tax collector ---- One wonders why anyone would live in Canada -----60% tax bracket, 15% taxes gst + pst, House taxes 2% and gas taxes over 100% ----AAA --- Must be the fresh air.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 07:44 - ID#32078)
spot gold

I refer to a dbc page

as a source for a futures price. The difference between this price and spot is generally the same difference as the day before, so by knowing yesterday's relationship, you can get a quick spot price.

I check it with cbs marketwatch at:

which gives the change in gold for the day. Since spot moves very closely with the closest month, it works for me. Both of these change quickly throughout the day and seem to be accurate.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 07:45 - ID#411331)
@Mike Sheller There is a great deal confusion about the distinction
between conservative and liberal, right wing and left wing. You are correct ( in my opinion ) about the focus on 'freedom'. I agree with
your definitions of conservative and liberal. The problem is, most people think that conservative = right wing and liberal = left wing.
This is not necessarily true. A right wing mentality believes that a
human being should have maximum freedom in order to express his/her
personal power. A left wing mentality believes that personal freedom
should be limited for the betterment of all. Because of the above definition for 'left wing'. some conservatives must be classified as left wing. Most of the people on this forum would be classified as right wing. But so is Bill Clinton. Any political leader who would freely
increase liquidity in the market place, and intervene with public funds to support equities during a crash ( as he did last October ) is both
right wing and a liberal. What we have is a massive transfer of wealth from the those who don't have it to those who already have too much, and
it is going on with no fear by the wealthy of consequences. How right wing can you get? Of course, we gold bugs are not going to be pleased,
it is going on in paper, while we sit on a pile of gold which is unconfortably lumpy.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 07:51 - ID#347457)
@Allen, FundaMetalist, Auric
FundaMetalist, your response was much more responsible than mine. Sorry, I did not read the article ( running out of time reading ) , so my reaction was to Allen's interpretation.
As far as embedded systems go, I lean toward higher number ( as we go deeper into it, it looks that more embedded systems will have some kind of problem, however, impact and type of failure is very difficult to assess. You can't go and look at the code, a black box testing is much more appropriate, however, not done all the time for a fear that we may shut down the production system with no available back up.

Allen, you read me wrong. I don't see a rosy picture. I think that it'll have a serious economic impact, however, I am getting tired of many "doom and gloom" scenarios which are based on little facts, knowledge, and understanding.

Auric, if I have to judge on scale 1 -10, where 1 is no impact and 10 is end of society as we know it, my guess is somewhere on level 5 - disruption of economic activities, some companies going out of business, trigger for market decline, however you will able to buy your bread and go to work ( what a bummer ;- ) )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 07:52 - ID#258427)
Well, this is ANOTHER week...and
maybe we'll see some action, huh...moning TED and all....

Silverbarron...went panning over the me...interesting...

Mike Sheller
(Mon Mar 16 1998 07:55 - ID#347447)
I guess taking our lumps is what real "freedom" is all about ( ;- )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 07:59 - ID#31868)
Hmmmmmmmmm - no inflation - Hmmmmmmmmmmm
During the past few days they have been saying that Titanic is not the number one movie of all time at the box office. Gone with the Wind is, at that time tickets were 25 cents - INFLATION adjusted Gone with the Wind wins hands down.

So I guess there is no inflation except at the ticket counter.

Mike Sheller
(Mon Mar 16 1998 08:02 - ID#347447)
Next gold bottom?
I have noticed a good deal of expectation at kitco these days for gold to continue down and test its bottom. I am not taking a position either way here, as to rally or test ( I'm too tired already ) but from the astrological point of view ( the only thing of unique value, aside from porkchop recipes, I have to bring to the amazingly erudite kitco krowd ) the upcoming conjunction of Mars with NYSE Venus, my gold significator, around April 21, 22, 23, could be significant. Was that sentence long enuf? Mars often brings a violent jolt - sometimes positive, sometimes negative. I would advise that if gold has been declining steadily into that time window, that those dates might be a rough final spike or shakeout, perhaps the bottom. Just something to put on your calendars and observe. No need for diatribes for or against astrology. I understand.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 08:35 - ID#233199)
@Mike Sheller

Have you considered other significators for Gold? As it is traded world wide what else might you use?

Old Soldier
(Mon Mar 16 1998 08:43 - ID#185274)
M16 vs M1&M14, Full auto vs semi auto
Oris Mar 16 00:03, Current M16 is a good combat weapon. Its strength and reliability are not equal to M1 & M14. Aluminum alloy and plastic vs steel and wood. M16 wears out after far fewer rounds than M1 & M14. When worn out M16 is scrapped, M1 & M14 just needed reconditioning and went back in service. In close combat the M16 is as good as any. As range increases, the advantage of M1&M14 becomes evident. Beyond 250-300 meters, M1&M14 are far superior to M16 and AK47. M16 ammo has very low penetration on any form of cover as compared to M1&M14. New M109 round was supposed to solve the problem but physics dont allow beating a good big round with a good little round. In VN, I chose to carry and M14.
Sam 00:39 Full auto is for movies and fools. There is no substitute for well-aimed shots. I never fired full auto in combat. In tests against advancing pop-up target arrays, semi-auto fire always gets more hits than full auto. People who praise full auto fire usually overlook the fact that in combat you have the ammo you carried to the fight. Once you have wasted it on full auto fire, your rate of fire drops to zero; a very unhealthy condition. I will be away until evening in Eastern U.S.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 08:51 - ID#375108)
Ted, thanks for yours, and ...
...will be back at ya toward the end of the week when there may be news. Holy cow, look at Bart's Palladium chart this morning...ouch. Still, ya gotta love the stuff at $265.75 the ounce ( at 0843 ) ....

(Mon Mar 16 1998 08:57 - ID#401460)
Gold Rally?

Well I guess I missed that one, I thought for sure markets would react to BCs latest scandal. This last one appears to be the last nail in the coffin - I guess not.

However, I did give it till noon to day, we will see. But it does look like a non event right now.

Gold flat lined at 294


(Mon Mar 16 1998 08:59 - ID#36156)
Stock Market in Last Act of Three Act Play


GO GOLD! ... er, any time you're ready.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:07 - ID#287277)
Black Gold & Gold, still in sync--The Asean 'crisis', a new 'paste-up'

1995-1996: A report, commissioned by the oil industry [$32,000 a copy, if your interested] by Petroconsultants, Geneva, details that, world oil production and supply probably will peak as soon as the year 2000 and will decline to half the peak level by 2025. Large and permanent increases in oil prices are predicted after the year 2000.

New Oil Price Shock Seen Looming as Early as 2000
If present economic and oil industry trends continue, future price shocks appear likely as early as the 2000, with the world facing permanent increases in the price of oil, two new studies have concluded.

World Oil Output May Peak...this time, it will be for keeps.

In addition, in the time frame of these studies, Indonesias state oil company announced that it would assume operatorship of the Coastal Plains/Pekanbaru PSC in central Sumatra. These leases are presently run by CalTex.
CalTex, see
Indonesia decision

In Montreux [and in Aspen] the Montreux Energy Roundtables meet.
Take a quick look at the folks, most particularly the Banker Folks who close attention, for instance, to the THIRD name under the Bankers, Advisors and Consultants list.

Now, revisit Indonesia, and the Asean, currency crisis.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:11 - ID#411331)
@all: Gold and silver continue to trade over a very narrow (c3%) range and done so for the last 3 w
I don't expect much positive motion until the DOW breaks, and takes with it the US dollar. I strongly suspect that the grief experienced by the
gold markets is all about the new EURO and the proposed level of gold
reserves in the new EC central bank. We have been hearing about massive central bank sales or proposed/threatened central bank sales of gold, yet even in 1997, such sales were only slightly above average. This year they are decidedly below average.
So let's say you are the EC central bank, and you are concerned about how strong your new currancy will be. The way to inspire confidance in the new EURO is to have more gold backing, not less. This
means the EC would want to buy gold, not sell it. But to buy massive amounts of gold would drive the price up. So what you do is threaten to
sell what you have, downplay the value of gold as monetary backing and
accumulate as much of the cheapened gold as you can. If gold threatens to rise over $300 make sure that lease rates are down around 2% so that
short-sellers can operate most effectively, in an atmosphere of doom and
gloom for the gold market. And keep buying up that cheap gold.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:13 - ID#358318)
If astrology counts, why not prophecy???
"Les simulacres d'or & argent enflez,
Qu'apres le rapt au lac furent gettez
Au desouvert estaincts tous & troublez.
Au marbre script prescript intergetez."

"The copies of gold and silver inflated,
which after the theft were thrown into the lake,
at the discovery that all is exhausted and dissipated by the debt.
All scrips and bonds will be wiped out."

Quatrain 8,28 from Nostradamus- meaning:

Paper gold such as is traded in place of real gold for convenience,
which has tempted the gold bankers into "fractional reserve"
practices, so that more gold is traded than can actually be delivered,
will be found worthless, since gold will trade no more in that form.
The certificates might as well be tossed aside as pebbles in the lake.
The coming inflation will exhaust the taxpayers' ability to service
the national debt, and all savings will be dissipated by the inflation.
Panic selling of equities and bonds will wipe out most of the gains
made by the bull market.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:15 - ID#26669)
Now Mike, can you tackle this definition?
You've done well, Grasshopper. But the honor of the Shao Lin depends upon you now try to explain to the unwashed masses the difference between the Jeffersonian or classical liberal and the modern liberal. I'll conjecture that when you get to the part about classic liberals being called conservatives in the US you'll have as much difficulty as you'll have explaining why neoliberals are actually more conservative in many areas.

BTW, looks like my hunch is going to be right about palladium and gold prices crossing soon.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:22 - ID#410194)
Gold and Silver news
A slight rise in Gold's open interest due to the weakness of the US Dollar last Friday wasn't enough to drive Gold just a bit higher so that several "waiting stops" could have been tigerred towards the "300" area.

The negative pressure remains tremendous on this market ( even at these low levels ) as rumours of more upcoming Central banks sales and the upcoming ECU Gold auction set to be taken place this summer is setting up for a bleak longer term scenario.

Silver is also struggling hard and if it ends up going below $6, several long players will give up!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:26 - ID#258427)
Look at Palladium jump....withing 13$ of gold..
Now where's my SWC?? ( think I sold it weeks ago...of course!! )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:28 - ID#238295)
rules of he game
Reify: Was hoping you would be right about XAU going up this week, but doesn't look like it

In retrospect the rules of the market are clear. All significant stock market corrections are buying opportunities, UNLESS THE DOLLAR AND BONDS DROP IN TANDEM WITH STOCKS.

My technical work indicates that this stock runnup probably will terminate in a about a month. The odds are that this is the final run, If so the dollar and bonds will tank together with stocks and the gold bull will begin.

But this outcome is far from assured. If we get say a 1000 point drop in the Dow, but bonds and the dollar do not tank, then the gold bull will be delayed further and that dip should be bought.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:31 - ID#26669)
Rhody, I think that's not exactly right, but then what are you left with?
According to one offline source I have the right and left wings were descriptive of where two competing factions of the French revolutionary parliment sat in their legislative house. But now these terms have come to mean two competing factions of socialism, roughly equivalant to neoMarxists and neoFascists. IMHO

Their use to describe American politics is often hyperbolic and meaningless. I think the major disagreement in that arena is more versus less central government. One can get into the the first of two major reasons for government, which is defense. Strong central government is more efficient in defense and weak decentralised governmnent like ( Renaissance Italy, the Helvetic Confederation, pre 13th Century Wales, etc, f'rinstance ) is more efficient in EVERYTHING else. IMHO

Go gold!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:35 - ID#375108)
BillD & 223
Palladium at $265.75 @ 0843 and at $281.50 @ 0901. Platinum about to cross $400. Hope the PGM stox bounce...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:41 - ID#410194)
The 60 minutes program?
Those who have been waiting for the end of the very famous Dow bull as a result of the revelations in last night's "60 Minutes" program will now have to wait for something else.

S&P Futures were indeed several points lower last night in anticipation of the program but it slowly recovered once the new scandal ( ? ) was out.

It's important to realize that strong Bull markets and equally strong Bear markets are not easily derailed. ( Dow and Gold are prime examples ) The psychology of trading and investment is turning for the most complex ever and very often, one needs a twisted mind to understand and get ahead of the markets.

Once too many people expect a market to do what it's supposed to do because of the past, it now does the opposite but each time, these same people give another chance for the market to act again like it's supposed to do only to lose their bets over and over.

As we remember, several of the Gold's severe downdrafts of last year occured in stormy worldwide situations!

The North-American equity markets shot up to new record highs several times after the negative warnings coming out of Intel and Motorola not too long ago.

These examples abound nowadays and to succeed in making maximum profits in trading and investing, a very open mind is what helps the most today.

Unfortunately, it looks like so many people get attached to a market emotionally that they keep fighting for what they believe SHOULD happen because they want to be right and they have to be right. Oh they might be right one day, or maybe not. And if they are right one day, at what cost?

Plenty of money and too many years have been lost by stubborn people betting on something that SHOULD happen instead of ACCEPTING the verdict of the markets which always have the last word anyway.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:44 - ID#258427)
Bart...can you fix your PM displays??
They appear to be stuck...thanx...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:47 - ID#410194)
Silver (again)
There were expectations last week of an upmove in Silver following Buffet's planned statements to his investors on Saturday.

Hmmm, people forget quick and easily.

Silver stopped going higher as soon as Buffet's investment strategy was mediatized. Actually, Silver's prices are now much lower than the day that his purchases were announced!

Buffet's investment in Silver is now no-news no matter how many times he and others talk about it.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 09:48 - ID#411331)
@223 I agree with you. I also think that the left wing/right wing political spectrum symbolism is
I think the political "spectrum" is actually a circle. Let's take the classic right wing opposites of Adolf Hitler and Joe Stalin. Both operated the same. Hitler used central government power to murder 6 million Jews and millions of other ethnics, while Stalin useds central government power to murder a like number of Ukrainians ( intentional starvation in the 1920's ) and many other ethnics via gulags. If these two political entities acted the same, they were the same, no matter what 'end' of the political spectrum they were supposted to represent. If these two political entities are identical, then the politcal 'spectrum' is a circle, not an arcuate/linear system of opposing extremes.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 10:14 - ID#347235)
@ Junior
Schmuck, your ignorance is showing.

Other poster Dont care much for M-16s to fragile

(Mon Mar 16 1998 10:14 - ID#26793)
The left wing, the right wing and deflation

(Mon Mar 16 1998 10:16 - ID#222231)
All-Link to ANOTHER?

Cick "ANOTHER-A A Aziz"

My apologies if this has been posted before!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 10:17 - ID#401237)
"He said, She said" NO They said

Just saw my first replay of the 60 mins report - it has been how many hours since the program?

No big deal just another one of those "he said, she said" things.

Let's see that makes " 25 she said and 1 he said".


PS: A liberal is one who believes that earnings from another's labor, should be used to support others who choose not to work. And that those who work will continue to work in such an environment.

And that 2+2=5, all you have to do to make it so, is to print more money.

Any means justifies the end.

And there goes the Redwoods.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 10:18 - ID#238295)
lease rates
One month gold lease rate down to 1.99%.Signals reduced spec short selling, increased CB supplies, or some combination of the two.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 10:32 - ID#222231)
All-Let's try again, do'nt know what happened with link.

click "collin seymour:stock market crash page"

Go To "OPINION & EDITORIAL COMMENTS" click " Alchemy and Poetry for Goldbugs ( March 10, 1998, revised March 12 ) NEW!

cick "ANOTHER-A A Aziz"

Go back to collin seymour page and read "INVESTOR BIOGRAPHIES"


(Mon Mar 16 1998 10:37 - ID#411331)
@Donald: Excellent post. Thank you.
Your article, although limited to an American context, is an excellent
analyis of the political-economic times.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 10:38 - ID#289357)
Pete @ ANOTHER link
This link doesn't work for me. Am I doing something wrong?? TIA

(Mon Mar 16 1998 10:39 - ID#344308)

old soldier@2344--3-15-98

i must dis-agre with your assessment of n korea and her potential
to destroy seoul. your argument centers upon the in-ability
of the us to defeat n korea. what is different here?
from the jungles to the cities. a vast difference. the us was
un-able TO FIND the targets due to mobility and cover. seoul
is targeted by thousands of heavy n korean artillery pieces, and
they anxiously await kim jong il's command----FIRE!--------and before
most of n america knows what has happened, seoul is a pile of cinders.
n korea has set the stage with infiltrators......the players in place.
our military is not up to the task of the middle east, korea, and the
balkans....and the rest of the world KNOWS this. this whole scenario
was dissected here last kitco----the archives..
in situ men and materials.....this is the key, and n korea has the key.
war is bad for life, good for gold.....

heading west and the left coast......big bear, mt charleston, brian head........the flatlander cometh.



(Mon Mar 16 1998 10:45 - ID#238422)
Old Soldier
Thank you very much for a very professional opinion.

My question arised after I read an article in
"Fighting Firearms" Magazine ( AK-47 vs. M-16 ) .
American vet looked at both weapons, expressed
his admiration in regard to M-16, but at the
end made a choice of AK-47 as a COMBAT weapon
for himself. In some other magazine, a professional
military expert said pretty much the same thing.
I shot AK-47 a lot, and it never jammed or misfired.
I did not shoot M-16, I do believe it's a good
weapon, but I just cannot eat the concept of making
Combat rifle with Aluminum ( ? ) receiver and plastic
buttstock which will probably break if you try to
hit enemy's head with it. Plastic handguard looks like
an anecdote.. It's light gun, very light,
BUT...American soldier carries a lot of stuff on his
back..can not run too fast anyway, so where is logic.

Thank you again.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 10:51 - ID#288157)
In the interest of ACCURACY--as to what Buffet actually said...
By William Lewis in New York

Stock prices should not be viewed as overvalued AS LONG AS US companies
continue to achieve strong return on equity and stable interest rates are
maintained, says Warren Buffett, the US investor known as the Sage of

In his annual letter to shareholders in Berkshire Hathaway, the investment company, he said that,
returns on equity "still remain exceptionally high" and interest rates held near recent levels, "there is no reason to think of stocks as generally overvalued", adding: "On the other hand, returns on equity are not a sure thing to remain at, or even near, their present levels.

He said: "Prices are high for both businesses and stocks", meaning "we get relatively LITTLE IN PROSPECTIVE EARNINGS WHEN WE COMMIT FRESH MONEY".

As a result, Berkshire had made some so-called alternative investments, including acquiring 111.2m ounces of silver which produced a pre-tax gain of $97.4m In February Mr Buffett announced that Berkshire owned 129.7m ounces of silver, approximately 20 per cent of the world's supply.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 10:59 - ID#410194)
From the archives...
The US Dollar index up more than 200 points ( ! ) from the lows on Januray 26th!

Date: Sun Jan 25 1998 16:23
cherokee__A ( @-----us-dollar-index-----and-the-klinton-factor----- ) ID#344308:

where is this market- - - us$- - - - - - going in the next 2 weeks?

damned near a sure bet........down.......

(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:05 - ID#288157)
Gold and Oil...and Alice in Wonderland....

1995-1996: A report, commissioned by the oil industry by Petroconsultants, Geneva, details that, world oil production and supply probably will peak as soon as the year 2000 and will decline to half the peak level by 2025. Large and permanent increases in oil prices are predicted after the year 2000.

"New Oil Price Shock Seen Looming as Early as 2000
If present economic and oil industry trends continue, future price shocks appear likely as early as the 2000, with the world facing permanent increases in the price of oil, two new studies have concluded.

World Oil Output May Peak...this time, it will be for keeps.

In addition, in the time frame of these studies, Indonesias state oil company announced that it would assume operatorship of the Coastal Plains/Pekanbaru PSC in central Sumatra. These leases are presently run by CalTex.
Look at CalTex operations in Indonesia, Asean--
Indonesia decision--see Pertamina Giveth--4th down

In Montreux [and in Aspen] the Montreux Energy Roundtables meet.
Take a quick look at the folks, ( 1 ) Haroen Al Rasjid, President and Chairman, PTT Caltex Pacific Indonesia, Jakarta ; ( 2 ) John Carr, Crude Oil Derivatives, Phibro Energy, London, e.g..

Now... revisit Indonesia, and the Asean, currency crisis.
Also consider that Thailand was consider its IPP alternatives.
Look at the price of gold. Look at the price of oil. Stop looking in Alice's mirror.

PH in LA
(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:12 - ID#225408)
Topics, uncolorful language
Oris, Old Soldier, Retired Soldier, All Other Soldiers, etc:

It would be appreciated if you would make some attempt to tie your esoteric discussion of professional tools for killing to something of more general interest here. ie. gold, investing, personal protection ( as opposed to purely professional esoterica ) , etc. If you find yourself unwilling and/or unable to do so, you might consider taking your discussion somewhere else.

Special note to Retired: Your ethnic vulgarities add even less to this forum. Obviously, you feel that they express volumes; however, please be assured that to many, they do not.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:13 - ID#222231)
Silverbaron-go to my 10:32-Let's try again.
Instead of clicking url, click additional words for directions.

I believe we have possibly solved an enigma. And if this is truly him, no disparagies to any on this forum, I would heed his words carefully.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:20 - ID#288157)
Oil/Gold Addendum
CalTex = Chevron + Texaco {:- )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:21 - ID#257136)
PH in LA.
Is it o.k. with you if we equate the ph factor as in la with the P.C. as defined so well and admirably by tolerant1 yesterday? ( Sunday, March 15, 1998 )
Anything which will aid anybody in furthering their goals of future safety and well-being are IMO as important as the gold and silver of which we speak.
As well cease to tell of means of shorting soybeans or going long on wheat as to CENSOR the ability to discuss Second Amendment Rights by ignoring the 1st Amendment in toto.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:25 - ID#22956)
......same ole, same ole.........
the more things change..... ( are you guys bored or what? )

HIgh Ted!

away...back to the grind


mikeS-I will try your recipe ( mmm good ) ...I prefer red oak to charcoal...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:27 - ID#341214)
Allen: Plans
Allen: I definetly want to respond to your inquiry about my own plans. Problem is I want to do a good job but I have a long day in front of me. I'll be sure to get back to you on that in the next day or so. I will say this though. Last year as I became more aware of what Y2K could lead to and as I coorelated this with my IT experience and my recognition of the general lack of timely action on Y2K issues, it lead to a good many sleepless nights. It was so damn hard to come to the general conclusions that I did but I could not ignore the facts that were staring me in the face. You sound like you might be going through a similiar period right now and I wanted to let you know it's a normal part of the process of becoming aware of what this situation might lead to. I remember feeling some panic and a great sense of urgency. As you start making some decisions towards how you want to proceed the panic subsides but the urgency remains.

Boy, isn't that a nice way to get Monday started off for everyone.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:30 - ID#257136)
My APOLOGIES to PH in LA! I forgot to post the topic and time of the post to which I referred.
Topic was " From Cuervo Central." Time was 17:18.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:35 - ID#210235)
Looks like big Warren B is seeing the same environment as yourself. Heard that in addition to silver, he bought a bunch of zero coupon bonds. Zeros offering a somewhat leveraged gain in the event of a downturn in interest rates.

I agree with you that the far left and far right meet on many issues. My copy of Tom Paine was given to my kids by a far lefty Berklee protest organizer!

The poor kids. My eldest had to study the DNC's platform all weekend because he was placed statistically in the MIDDLE of the middle when his response to a questionaire - all extremes, turned out to average smack dab in the middle. I imagine you could hear his moaning and groaning all the way back east.

Wonder if those same statistical methods account for Clinton's popularity in the polls.

Time to look for some more physical. The stillness of the market has moved me to complacency on purchases.

Bully Beef
(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:36 - ID#259282)
I think gold has found it's price.
This would be unfortunate for me.Gold must go up. Better start thinking that way. I'm in until Sept or Oct. Then it's into paper. If things haven't changed I will only have lost about 30% in 2 years on not having a ( reasonably ) safe equity fund. Prove them wrong .Go GOLD!

Bully Beef
(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:48 - ID#259282)

(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:48 - ID#347235)
@ PH in LA
I agree that using the ethnic yiddish profanities doesnt serve well but some people require some sort of response at their level, I have tried to end this type of dialogue but certain people keep hitting hot buttons I will stop when they stop. I assume that the people asking about weapons are interested in personall protection. I will not tell any war stories about myself in the 6 third world countries I had the "pleasure"of
visiting. Now I will no longer speak yiddish to these people but reserve the right to use plain English which will probalbly upset you just as much. If so SORRY 'BOUT THAT.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:50 - ID#222231)
SDRer_A-Thank you for your very informative post.
How soon will OPEC determine they no longer want to wait for depletion of thier oil at these prices? If the conditions as stated in reports exist, if I were them, I would begin curtailing production and not worry about losing customers. The beginning of gold to shine may not be too far ahead.

The only hope I see is for a new technology such as fusion, which could produce Hydrogen cheaply from water as a replacement for oil. Hell, if we can go to the moon, why would this technology not be available if the superpowers started a crash program to develope same? I'll bet 10 to 1 that they have already started a crash program for a viable alternative to oil with a new, astounding technology which will be cheaper and better. Thanks again.


(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:55 - ID#342282)
Palladium chasing gold
There has been a few comments re price of palladium getting close to POG. I just had a right brainer from the dim past that maybe Pd would be like the bowling ball and Au like the pins. Could also be memory lapse!!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:59 - ID#251268)
Just heard on local stock report(HI)
Warren Buffet sold 5% all stock holdings ( including all Mcdonalds
) and invested big time in way down the road oil futures.
Anyone heard this?this stock broker usally reliable.

Bully Beef
(Mon Mar 16 1998 11:59 - ID#259282)
Don't glorify war for me.
My Grandfather died when he was 98. He was in WW1 and was an injured machine gunner. He spent 6 mon. in a hospital in England .When he died in hospital in 86' he was in a type of hallucination where he re-lived his days in the service over and over again. It wasn't pretty. My Dad never speaks of WW2 although he served in England and Europe for five years . He comes close to tears every Remembrance day.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:00 - ID#286230)
ANOTHER channel
BART: Maybe what is needed is another channel. Then there could be one for Stocks and Coins and one for Investors --just as now. PLUS one for guns, food and drink, sports and weather, anti-racism, pot, floods, US history, Canadian balanced budget, Founding Fathers of various countries and their directions from God; and Presidential petting.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:08 - ID#238422)
PH in LA
Agreed, no more guns on Kitco.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:10 - ID#222231)
SDRer_A, Thank you for your very informative post.
How long will it be before OPEC determines that they want to keep on producing oil at these price? If those reports are true, and I believe they are, why would OPEC want to produce at current levels for a rapidly depleting resource? If I were them, I would begin curtailing production in the not so far future, then oil and gold will both in tandem soar. Why would they care about other poker players when they are holding all the aces? I still believe that this will occure when they have cornered enough gold at these low prices. This may not be as far away also.

Our only hope is that the superpowers develope an astounding, revolutionary technology such as fusion as an example, that could split water into oxy and hydro. Why not, we did go to the moon. I do not believe it's impossible and may happen shortly. In fact, I'll bet 10 to 1 that they have already begun the process, quitely of course! It takes at least 10 or more years to bring something in that order to come on line. These prices of oil and gold are not going to last much longer.

Your thoughts on these comments would be appreciated. Thanks again.


(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:13 - ID#222231)
SDRer_A, sorry for repost. I did not think 1st one went thru.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:23 - ID#251268)
Can't figure the gold
market out? the floor traders must be making their living
in another pit.I would think that someone would TRY to make
a run at some stops at least,but nadda nothing ---------
oh well wind that baby tighter ya tighter tighter ka boom!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:24 - ID#342282)
Larryn re your post on spot
I talked to CBS Market Watch about disparity of vol. on gcj8. phone is 800 762 7538. They have several sessions per day. The vol. on any session is the vol. for the previous session!!! Give them a call to verify this.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:32 - ID#258427)
Well...we have ANOTHER 4 days...They
will have to be more exciting that today.... ( up that is!! ) )

PH in LA
(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:33 - ID#225408)
A reply and a question for Pete

Sometimes, when we think we are descending to someone else's level, we have to guard against descending to our own. Why wait for "them" to stop pushing those buttons? After all, they're your buttons; how are we even supposed to know where they all are? Take responsibility for yourself, man, and stop trying to blame everyone else. Furthermore, I am not upset, nor do I equate plain English with vulgar English.


Visited your "Another AZIZ" site and the C. Seymour biography page. Is that prince supposed to be ANOTHER? If not, can you give us another clue to your thought?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:34 - ID#410198)
Anyone want to talk about lead futures,amazing what I've seen here
lately,liberals standing mantra "protect freespeech"but God help you if you say something they don't agree with,then its run to Bart for censorship....get a life

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:37 - ID#258427)
Don't just do something!
Sit there!!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:41 - ID#246224)
Saudi Arabia and UAE purchased 341 TONNES of gold last year
@295/oz = about US$3.2 BILLION. Not a bad little amount for two sparsely populated geopolitical entities. Let's say they bought HALF that each year for the past 10 years ( since 1987 ) would be approx 1700 tonnes of admitted purchases ( about US$ 28 BILLION ) , not counting the not imported, privately held in bullion banks stuff and paper gold with which to trade.

BTW I'm sure its all been purchased for jewelry! Those women over there must be some tired from dragging all that gold jewelry around, eh?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:49 - ID#339265)
...certainly, one thing is clear...there are truly more and more pessimists on this forum where gold and silver are concerned.

My own feeling: if the two metals do not make an upmove within the next two weeks, there will probably be at least a 25-30% defection of posters from this forum...

As it stands, I've counted 3 or 4 regular posters that dropped out in just the past week.

It's F*.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:50 - ID#285392)
I need your advice on OTC Dec 1999 gold calls
DA was good enough to let us know that these were the calls he invested in. My problem is that my broker does not know where to purchase them. He tried Comex and according to him their calls only go out to Feb. 1999. If you know of a place to purchase the OTC ( I presume this means over the cournter ) or regular late date calls would you please let me know? Thanks

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:55 - ID#339265)
The movements of platinum and palladium are assuming the same kind of verticality as the Dow index.

Naturally, since a large component of the two metals' values derives from industrial usage, then it is natural to expect that when ( and if ) the DOW should ever tank, then these two metals should tank right along with it.

I would be surprised to see either platinum or palladium hold up well in a DOW debacle. They are definitely the highest risk PM's to own right now. When they fall, they will fall hard.


(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:56 - ID#9385)
Interesting article
Nothing really new in this article that I haven't previously read on this Kitco site. Sometimes a review such as this can sometimes spark an introspective analysis.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 12:56 - ID#286249)
Pete, your query re OPECs willingness to produce at these prices...

Is the intelligent and core question. One might suggest that the world of oil--like the world of gold-- is in the quick-sand of unintended consequences. The oil-Asean play was a comparatively straightforward business operation--knock em down, insert IMF and life goes on ... But--like the world of gold: ABX forward sales were steel business decisions [ABX had/has a buyer, on what is probably an escalating Cost+ contract] other producers--not knowing the real ABX status, looked at ABXs paper sales,judged it good, jumped in the fray and set about destroying themselves.

In oil, the originating play was pretty clear-cut, but there are a lot of players out there, who watch, hawk-eyed, to see a train they can board...they dont necessarily care where the train is going, only that it is picking up speed and looks like a good, fast ride. Prescription for derailment? One may venture, Yes, where one does not know or care about the lines equipment maintenance, the efficacy of their scheduling and switching procedures, etc., the odds of catching a disaster-waiting-to-happen escalate. Oil at 10-15 is a dangerous distortion of reality. As to possible resolutions? Walking that circle now! {:- )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:03 - ID#210235)
I guess we've fallen from "gloom and doom" to "glum and dumb".

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:03 - ID#269245)
Preacher - we are seeing extremely stable gold and silver action today. What does this tell you, technically speaking?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:05 - ID#339265)
INTERNATIONAL OLYMPICS COMMITTEE RECONSIDERING MEDAL CATEGORIES... order to better reflect the reality of the PM market, sources say a plan is underfoot to change the medal categories for the Olympics:

1st - Platinum
2nd - Palladium
3rd - Gold


(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:05 - ID#222231)
PH in LA-I can not believe forum is not interested in ANOTHERS identity
I really don'nt know. The poem is by ANOTHER-A A Aziz. My conclusion is that ANOTHER is A A Aziz. Notice the same cryptic language in his poem and other writings. The opinion editorial comment was posted on 4/10/98 in collin seymour page.

I hate to say it, but if A A Aziz is ANOTHER, he's no small potatoes. If this is true and I was in this forum and ignored his advice, I'd have to call myself stupid. ( won'nt be the 1st time ) .

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:06 - ID#365216)
good Y2K website
Please see the following for all your Y2K preparedness needs,
discussions, etc. He has some interesting insites on the need
for PMs in the event of computer glitches wiping bank slates clean,

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:13 - ID#335379)
Pete, power tech.
Hello Peter:
I have worked at a government power research facility and unfortunatley polaticians would rather "power broker"
than spend on power development. I watched them cancel a wonderful program for fusion. There are possabilities in these fields for safe clean power.
Check out for a very nice fuel cell concept already in production.
The fuel cell has the potential of still allowing the black gold people a role in providing fuel that now can burn clean as well as the many advantages of
the electric motor over Internal combustion. This should offer the ballance needed
for the power of oil concerns, clean air concerns and politians to work out a profitable agreement. This situation is much like the possability of tobacco
growers changing to high-buck plants for medicinal drugs. They would still
make $ but have less political pressure.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:13 - ID#341214)
farfel: Olympic Medals: ROTF LOL! That sums it up quite nicely. Thanks for making my day.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:14 - ID#31868)
Speculator - not slammin you, just the article.
A Grunion could have written a better article on gold than you one you posted.No mention of fiat currencies and the slaughter in Asia. No mention of the fact that people that held gold were protected in Asia from the paper fire.

And the kicker of the whole piece, belief that US paper will continue to throw off 6% forever. When the day of reckoning hits I pity people that do not own the precious metals.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:19 - ID#246224)
Latest Y2K theory (skip if you are sick of this as it will make you groan).
The EEC/EMU having recognized the problem has been working on a covert operation to assemble a replacement trading system based on all new systems and software. This system will also have its own currency. It is called the ECU. This is one of the reasons that "Europe is so far behind on the Y2K issue because they are focusing almost exclusively on the 'Euro conversion'".

Now something just doesn't jibe here. The Germans are meticulous thinkers and engineers. Why in blue blazes would they go along with the Euro project to the neglect of Y2K when the entire system would fail because of Y2K ( regardless of how well the ECU was implemented ) ? One could chaulk this up to political performance ( ie - politicians always screw things up ) . One might say "Since we Americans are so wonderful than anyone else must be behind us." . Well, are they "lapping" us?

Here's the scenario I'm thinking about. A few years ago, say during the early 1990's, the EEC higher ups started getting REALLY concerned about the mess Y2K would produce. They realized that NO ONE WAS TAKING IT SERIOUSLY. This took a few years to digest and verify the facts of the matter to assure it was not some paranoid fantasy. What to do???

They recognized that systems around the world would basicly fail regardless of the amount of effort put into fixing them. There was no time to remediate. Instead they planned a replacement system. It was recognized that this would be the core which would later be propogated outward from a functional center. There would need to be a system that was working so that basic markets and trade could be conducted to maintain the industrialized world while it rebuilt its infrastructure.

Because the systemic failure of Y2K would jeapordize the security and viability of entire nations, particularly the "First World", a new currency would also need to be formulated which was not subject to the underlying infrastructure ( which was doomed ) . Hence the paramount importance ( apart from any nation's popular support for the plan ) of implementing the ECU.

The ECU will "GO LIVE" 1999,1,1 . There will be enough time to test and move essential banking and governmental transactions over to this new system. They will be ready to watch as the world falls apart. Or it is possible that they will make an offer in mid 1999. The offer would be something on the order of "We have an alternative which is a turn-key package. It will run and you can begin to develop according to our system and interface. Testing is fairly easy and universal. Though we are all headed for a dificult period we can ride this out together if you adopt our plan ..."

Just some crazy thoughts.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:21 - ID#410198)
While watching the grass grow heres something to chew on:

Mike Sheller
(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:22 - ID#347447)
223 and liber-ali-tee
Re your 9:15 - a tough one, o master, but I shall try. Jefferson, the classic liberal of the past, was a metaphysician, as were many of the Founding Fathers. A man very much concerned with the cosmic issues of man's place in the universe, his relationship to God, and his future evolutionary expression ( evolution in a social and intellectual sense, NOT as the descendent of an ape ) . Thus a man like Jefferson, though quite high minded , was a human being living in the context of the life in which he found himself, and had preferences and prejudices as we all. Some nitpickers may point out some of the inconsistyencies as in hisd ownership of slaves, but one could fault goldbugs for using paper money on the same "hypocrisy" principle. Though of course the two offenses cannot be compared. ( Though fiat paper money IS a form of slavery. ) The liberal of the past first looked at UNIVERSAL doctrines, and tried to pull him/herself, and society up to meet the great principles through hard work on one's institutions, character and mind. Such a liberal saw tradition ( conservatism ) as the enemy of freedom , maximization of human potential, and progress. The liberal of today looks at the particulars, the inequities, more felt than objective in many cases, and seeks to ameliorate them in relation to OTHER MEN, rather than to lift ALL MEN to a higher vision. The modern liberal reveres tradition, so long as it has been manufactured by his sentiment and is an outgrowth of his personal social philosophy. The individual is to be sacrificed to the collective ( tradition, conservatism ) . It is also interesting that the modern liberal is quite able to do without "God" while the modern conservative now clings to His robes. There is more to be said, but man does not live by Faith alone, I now have to go back to earning some Bread. Have I done well, o master?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:23 - ID#286279)
You don't acquiesce to itimidation, I know. Still it's too bad you didn't stick with it....goombachalamakkagoomidoo ( sp? ) . Probably would have pushed POG up by now.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:25 - ID#57232)
Warren Buffett Sells substantial portion of McDonald's holdings
Here is 'another' guru to watch.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:28 - ID#227290)
clone & trading action

While today's trading is disappointing and painful, it has changed nothing, in my view. I don't want to see gold break $292.00 on the downside. So far it's holding while the bears are expending their energy.
Let's see what the rest of the week holds.

The Preacher

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:36 - ID#368244)
@ Preacher

I am still wondering about the steady fall in BGO shares. Since I think you own some, your opinon would be appreciated.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:41 - ID#251268)
Thomas Jefferson,
eh Mike S.,don't claim to know a lot about him but I do
have a copy of his retranslation of the New Testement
( I'll get the full name later, its at the other house )
anyway whew that guy was realy out there,he spent decades
translating the bible excluding any unexplainable happening
( miricales ) it is IMO a big pile of s--t ,if you don't want
to believe something fine,but to put so much energy into changing
something to your own reality,its a good thing he had enough
slaves to do all his work for him cause he was wasting his time
on that enterprise.Half the book is dedicated to him explaining
why he was doing it,so I wouldn't recomend reading it but
he was indeed a liberal,very liberal with the truth even.
Promise to get back on track as soon as gold does!HA

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:42 - ID#269245)
I expect to see continued low prices in oil until about 3 weeks before the next OPEC meeting, when investors begin to anticipate the meeting's outcome. With global deflationary pressures, low oil demand, high relative production, less demand for petroleum products, and oil exporting countries' heavy dependancy on the resource for trade, I do not expect their meeting to resolve many of the current issues in OPEC, mainly production quota violations. I do not expect crude prices to rise for quite a while, perhaps hovering around 15 +/- 3 for the next year or so. The factors which would defy my expectations would be OPEC unity in controlling production ( significantly reducing supply by as much as 50% ) or some great global economic boom. If either of these conditions occured, I would be quite suprised ( understatement ) . I expect more dramatic turmoil from currencies and stocks than from oil.

All previous "expectations" come from a twenty-something, untraditionally educated nobody who knows absolutally nothing about economics or the market ( s ) in question. - just a hunch. - c

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:43 - ID#376309)
Re: Date: Mon Mar 16 1998 12:50 - Snowbird
Snowbird: Your broker is an idiot! COMEX has options on Gold for the months of Jun99 and Dec 99. As soon as the Jun98 options go off the board they will be listing Jun00 Gold Options. This is a fact! Some quote machines which brokers use only list gold options out to Dec98 or Feb99, non-the-less the Jun99 and Dec99 are traded. If use want to buy them but in a market order. You will get them at the best and a fair price, immediately! As afar as buying OTC options that could be tricky. I'm not sure how to do that, but COMEX will give you a fairer price and since tehy go out to Dec99 why bother with the OTC market.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:44 - ID#9385)
@ Tolerant1
I read once that in the multitude of counsel there is safety. Thanks for your comment.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:44 - ID#57232)
Saudi - China Oil link
SDRer, All: You may be interested in this. The Saudis are developing direct ties with China regarding Oil. We just learned that China is a major Oil producer -- presumably with numerous foreign international oil incompanies represented. Now we learn that it is not just the international Oil companies, but Saudi Arabia as well. Please note the reference to a 'marketing shift toward Asia'.

Just a thought -- any gold deals going on? One thing Saudi Arabia does not have is gold mines.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:46 - ID#227290)
Pete & ANOTHER's Identity
I am interested in ANOTHER's identity. But I think he is a group of guys that reflect a theory about the markets -- not a single fellow who has inside knowledge.
Vronsky identified a Shiek Abu Bekr al-Rashid and an imaginary conference that took place between the oil states and the central banks. Well, the Shiek had the same perspective as ANOTHER.
I remember that ANOTHER made reference to one of the articles on the golden eagle web site.
So what I think ANOTHER is, is some guys on golden eagle advancing their theory about what's taking place in the gold market.
Having said that I cannot understand how they were able to tell us emphatically that gold would not go under $280. Nor do I understand the basis for the call that a major gold purchase is coming that will drive the price between $320 and $360. Of course, that hasn't come true yet.
But I definitely think that Vronsky is associated with ANOTHER in some way.
Taraq Aziz --- oh oh oh please.

The Preacher

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:49 - ID#31868)
JTF - hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I remember that someone here posted a link that indeed proved that Saudi Arabia did in fact have gold mines. I just cannot remember who, but I do remember being shocked when I saw it.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:50 - ID#269409)
@ Platinum
Was that the sound of falling debris I heard when Platinum broke the $400 barrier a bit ago? Ohhhh, my Plat. Eagles are my friends.....

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:54 - ID#57232)
Saudi gold mines - how big?
tolerant1: Now that you mention it, I do remember something too. But I I think they are very small. I think it is a good bet that they have more gold above ground than below ground! Did you see the post about the Saudi's and some other ME countries acquiring more than 350 tonnes of gold this year? That would account for a large portion of CB sales.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:54 - ID#227290)
Isure & BGO

Indeed. I bought some BGO on Feb. 27 at C$3.30 -- currently C$2.90. Gold has fallen US$5.00 since then and, even though the price of copper has risen, the lower gold price accounts for the lower share price, in my view.
BGO remains well above the Nov-Dec lows and even above the Jan low. It has just taken out the Feb low, but if it's in a three-step correction from the Jan-Feb peak, then that correction is just about over and we should see a run soon.
But without a higher gold price, a run in BGO is highly unlikely, to say the least.
One more thing, the longer that gold languishes, the more bullish sentiment gets drained from the shareholders of these small mining companies.

The Preacher

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:56 - ID#36156)
tolerant1 RE: Gold Mines in Saudi Arabia

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:57 - ID#347235)

(Mon Mar 16 1998 13:59 - ID#269245)
I kind of like the graphs. They are steady, and I haven't seen that in a long time. They are different, there are no big downward spikes, and I like it! - c

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:02 - ID#269409)
@ Preacher...ANOTHER
Actually, that Sheik A*B*A*R guy who's link Vronsky posted before, was not saying quite what ANOTHER did. In fact, the shiek, while making the Gold/oil link, was pretty bearish on Gold's propects for short term rise.

Now, as to $280 bottom, I'm not sure how that call became SO impressive re "ANOTHER", since several of us here, made precisely the same call, and well in advance of ANOTHER, and based on conventional market analysts wisdom. That's been the most common "bottom" cited, in just about all late 1997 analysis, so ascribing it to the "ANOTHER" character is a mighty weak form of evidence that he has insider "knowledge"..any more than anyone else ( ampong dozens ) who made that same prediction.

A better test of ANOTHER's credibility, will indeed be a look at whether this "big buyer" steps in by the end of this week, making these huge waves in the Gold market, as predicted by ANOTHER's "5 to 10 days".

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:08 - ID#31868)
Partial from the release today -
First Silver Reserve Press Release

VANCOUVER, March 16 /CNW/ - Pincock Allen and Holt ( PAH ) have completed their independent audit of reserves and estimate of resources at First Silver's San Martin mine in Jalisco State, Mexico. PAH prepared an independent valuation of the San Martin mine as at September, 1996 as part of the due diligence process at the time of First Silver's acquisition of the San Martin.

This latest report compares reserves and resources at September, 1996 and December, 1998 and shows the increases in both categories through the intervening 15 month period. Mineable reserves ( proven and probable ) have increased from 10,646,000 ounces to 15,189,000 ounces. In the 15 month period, 2,874,800 ounces were produced for a gross gain in mineable reserves of 7,417,800 ounces - an increase of 70%. First Silver's mineable reserve development rate was, therefore, 2.6 ounces for each ounce produced.

Inferred resources ( possible and potential ) increased more than 11 times
in the same 15 month period from 4,051,000 ounces to 47,006,000 ounces.

Total mineable reserves and inferred resources are, therefore, 62,195,000 ounces - an increase of 47,500,000 ounces over the total reported at September, 1996.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:09 - ID#342282)
HenryD re your details on Boliden in Saudi A.
Thanx for this, I've often wondered why so little apparent effort has not been made in this ME area. My understanding of plate tectonis work over the last 10 years leads me to believe that there is a lot more potential there than I've heard about. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places. Do you have a quote access url for Boliden. I don't watch TSE much. Thanx again

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:11 - ID#31868)
Henry_D - Thanks!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:16 - ID#432157)

Suggestions ideas ?????

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:18 - ID#26793)
@Tolerant1: I posted it. Here it is again

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:23 - ID#258129)
Prediction of ANOTHER
So far I can recall, there was no prediction at all. He wrote, that a big purchase of gold now [if happened] will drive Gold price to $320-360 within 1 -2 weeks. There was no indication, that this purchase is going to happened in coming days or weeks. Or something is wrong with my English again?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:24 - ID#36156)
chas: Here's what I found...

There's some more too:



(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:31 - ID#330175)
This is not a JOKE
A guy from Tyson Foods arranges to visit the Pope. After receiving the
papal blessing he whispers, "Your Eminence, do we have a deal for you.
If you change The Lord's Prayer from 'give us this day our daily
bread...' to 'give us this day our daily chicken...' we will donate $500
million dollars to the Church."

The Pope responds saying, "That is impossible. The Prayer is the Word of
the Lord and it must not be changed."

"Well," says the Tyson man, "we are prepared to donate $1 billion to the
Church if you change the Lord's Prayer from 'give us this day our daily
bread...' to 'give us this day our daily chicken..."

Again the Pope replies, "That is impossible. The Prayer is the Word of
the Lord and it must not be changed."

Finally, the Tyson guy says, "This is our last offer. We will donate $5
billion to the church if you change the Lord's Prayer from 'give us this
day our daily bread...' to 'give us this day our daily chicken...'" and
he leaves.

Next day the Pope meets with the College of Cardinals to say that he has
good news and bad news.

"The good news is that the Church has come into $5 billion." "The bad
news is that we are losing The Wonderbread Account."
Only the individual sender is responsible for the content of this
message, and the message does not necessarily reflect the position
or policy of the National Education Association or its affiliates.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:36 - ID#330175)
A button ta wear from a GOOD friend
'Grow your own dope.Plant a yank'-----go gold & ginseng

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:38 - ID#31868)
Donald_A - thanks
I should have known. If I had another brain it would die of loneliness!!!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:39 - ID#252391)
Any news of CDE?
Probably the best performing precious metal stock CDE, really took a bath today fallng from 12 1/8 to 11 1/2. Anybody hear any news.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:43 - ID#255284)
G'day Ted!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:44 - ID#266110)
@Allen(USA) RE: Warren Buffet and 130 million ozs of Silver
As a similar parallel to your post, I wonder about something else. There is a correlation with Warren Buffet's purchase of 130M ozs. Here's the scenario.

We know:
1. WB bought 130 million oz
2. 130 million oz = 20% of the current warehouse reserves worldwide.
3. The US has 260 million citizens
4. 100% of the world reserve = 650 million oz.

If you correlate the above information, you can draw some interesting conclusions. In WB's purchases, if every US citizen bought the same amount = 130M oz, then each person would get only 1/2 ounce. And it would cost only US$3.00 for each 1/2 ounce. Even welfare recipients have that kind of scratch.

If all US citizens tried to buy all of the available reserves ( before WB scarfed up his 20% ) , then the demand would be 5 times WB's purchase or the 650M oz indicated. That would account for only 2.5 ounces and a sum of total of only US$15.00 for each person. Once again, even a welfare type can come up with those kinds of bucks. Remember, this accounts for only US demand and doesn't factor foreign or industrial demand.

Maybe the most significant point to make is where DEMAND is. Given the current conditions, there is not enough demand to cause the cost of silver to go up where it potentially should. But if we have a meltdown of the Dow and a rupture of the asset bubble ( as it is destined to do ) , then we will see a very different scenario. That is why I am submitting the kind of spin that I am.

If DEMAND increases as one might expect, then the price of silver will take-off well above the US$7.00 level. While the Hunt brother's escapade created "unbelievable" highs, it is interesting to look at the psychology of the public. I was talking to a trader who told me that when silver hit US$40/oz, his phone was ringing off the hook and people were leveraging themselves tot the moon ( or at least they were trying to ) . The trader said that they had to limit the amount of margin extended to these kinds of people which resulted in threats and a demand for more credit. They were willing to take the risk.

If you are any kind of believer that history repeats itself, then you've got to believe in the possibility that a similar run in PMs and corresponding hysteria will ensue.

NOTE: We are seeing unprecedented times in the stock market, including the overvaluation of assets. This is based on too much credit. We are seeing addiction in the market to stocks as the only mechanism for investing. But as was said by BigDuke 6 in Apocalypse Now, "Someday this war's gonna end". Well the same is true about the Bull Market. Only when the "war ends" will you see PMs rise with a vengence. IMHO

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:50 - ID#222231)
If, ( and that's a big word ) , that SDer_A's articles posted a short time ago are bonifide, then if we know society as it is today is to survive, something has to be done, and quickly. Or as I've stated before, srotapisnoc may have this scenario in mind to depopulate our planet.

Just speculation on my part, fusion may already have been developed and the big money interests are suppressing it for obvious reasons. Or they may prolong oil further by developing a Hybrid auto that uses a small internal combustion engine, generator and batteries in combination. I've seen this on the webb before, but can not for the love of me, remember where. ( I'll search ) Milage is over 100 miles per gal. Also body is made of composit materials. There I go, getting flaky again. ( the shadow )


(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:50 - ID#20767)
Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:55



The purchase of large physical stocks of gold in Nov. did send a message to the CBs. They did begin slowdown of sales/easing. The management tool of gold in the 90s ( see Date: Sat Mar 07 1998 13:08 ANOTHER ( THOUGHTS! ) ID#60253 ) is now to go into reverse! A large purchase, now, is sending another message, bring gold back into $320 to $360 US$ range. We should see this in five to ten days. This will be a hard thing, as it may create a crush to cover. Let us watch this new gold market, as it is not as before.

I will post later in march!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:54 - ID#339274)
FWIW.SPX will make a shortterm
cyclical turning point next 30 mins,
Happy trading

(Mon Mar 16 1998 14:59 - ID#255284)
Top 'O the mornin' t' y'all
St Patricks day down under.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:10 - ID#288369)
@If last fall, the market was "irrationally exuberant".....
What the hell is it now? Insanely ecstatic? Oil for sale...$11./bbl. OBO. Studio.Ruined

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:12 - ID#222231)
ALL - Preacher

Alchemy and Poetry

Alchemy, the ancient pseudoscience concerned mainly with the transmutation
of base metals into gold, can be traced back to the ancient Greeks... The Arabs
based their alchemy on the Greeks and Arabs also have a great tradition of
poetic arts.

Most famous of the old Arabian Alchemists was Jabir ibn Haiyan ( 721-815? )
who was known to the West as Geber, the Arabian Prince. Jabir believed that
various metals could be produced by mixing mercury and sulphur in different
proportions. He enjoyed the patronage of the Barmaki Vizier during the Abbasid
Caliphate of Haroon al-Rashid, and died in Kufa.

After the death of Jabir, nearly a century elapsed before Islam produced a
worthy successor: this was the Persian chemist and physician Abu Bakr
Muhammad ibn Zakariyya al-Razi ( 866-925 ) ( known to the West as Rhazes ) .

Now follow this link, which joins the themes of Alchemy as transmutation of
base metals into gold, and poetry for goldbugs, ( to be read while recalling
Jabir's theory concerning mercury ) :




Mercury are you the element
sealed in the sacred vessel
of putrification and decay?
Mercury are you the catalyst
that would transform
from lower to higher?
Mercury you are missing the creation
of the Most High's
Mercury are you the solution
that kills the lesser
and multyplys the greater?

Beyond you
is Another
In you
is Another
for you are an allusion
to Another
beyond the thought of you


Investor Biographies

Out-of-the-ordinary investors!

Prince Alwaleed bin Talal bin Abdul Aziz al Saud [Updated
March 13th]

Prince Alwaleed bin Talal bin Abdulaziz ( a nephew of King Fahd ) is a billionaire
investor with a contrarian investment style and heads the United Saudi Bank,
which was created in September 1997 from the merger of the United Saudi
Commercial Bank ( of which the Prince owned approx. 40% ) and the Saudi Cairo
Bank. The United Saudi Bank is regulated by the Saudi Arabian Monetary
Agency ( SAMA ) , which has been invited to join the Bank for International
Settlements ( BIS ) .

Prince Alwaleed's father, Prince Talal Bin Abdul-Aziz al-Saud, is half-brother of
King Fahd and is supposedly the most liberal member of the ruling al-Saud

Prince Alwaleed is a very unique investor as you will find from these linked

1.The Prince and the Portfolio
2.Inside the $10 billion empire
3.Billionaire Prince stands for business acumen, clean living
4.The Prince Talks Strategy
5.Apple's Arabian Knight?
6.Background information- The Saudi Arabian Economy


(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:15 - ID#28594)
JTF--Did you need all the posts re: Chinas oil?
or just a sample?
Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 15:44
SDRer__A ( ) ID#288155:
It is written, all holes in earth lead to china! [Anothers comment]

PS==Thanks for the url--as to gold deals going on...oil deals are gold deals and gold deals are oil deals and Gertrude Stein would be right at home {:- )

Studio.R@YOU.R.NOT.Ruined Just hold on for a wee bit longer! ( I hope you saw my posts this morning? You'll be in very fine shape my friend! Hang
in there! {:- ) ) )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:19 - ID#222231)
Delphi-If only others took the time to read a post as you do
Confusion would not reign supreme.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:22 - ID#222231)
If ANOTHER is A A Aziz, I would say he has considerable insider knowledge.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:24 - ID#342282)
HenryD re Boliden
Thanx a lot. Let you know if I can get it right

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:28 - ID#266110)
@jman (your 13:41) Thomas Jefferson
TJ might have been a very liberal man by some accounts. But when he stated that he expected an uprising against the government, that statement is certainly NOT liberal by today's standards. That would make him a right-wing extremist. Any liberal making such a claim today would be a heretic and would be cast out of the fold.

The Liberals of today are collectivists. They want to share everything that you have, if you have something more than them. They want to use th e power of the federal government to redistribute wealth as THEY SEE FIT.
They also want to guarantee results ( regardless of the effort made or risk taken ) . VICTIMIZATION has become the cornerstone to their religion. You need a victim in order to justify extraction from a producer to a non-producer - and then tell the producer that they're not doing "their fair share".

To extend the heresy one step further, imagine Tommy Jefferson supporting the 2nd Amendment !!! It actually happened. Where does that put the liberal montra ???? ( Charlie Schumer, did you hear that one? )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:28 - ID#288369)
@SDRer.....I keep holdin' on (just like Willy).....
How 'bout "Fete' Fifteen" for us oil trash. SDRer...I'll buy your tickets, Pard. "Tequila for Everyone!" ( my famous last words ) Go Oilbugs! gulp.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:30 - ID#368244)
Hit the Fan

Don't ask me why, but I believe the S--T is about to hit the fan. Several Asia funds down today even after nice rises in stocks last night.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:34 - ID#330175)
DOW is ONLY up 90 t'day
How's a 'boomer' ta retire at this rate???----go gold & schrooms!~~~~~

Carpe Aurem
(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:35 - ID#339292)
@ Geoffs
Here's what I use for London quotes all the time. You can get quotes for free but I believe you have to register ( free ) .

Give it a shot.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:36 - ID#225273)
Delphi & English

Help me out here, Brother Delphi.
ANOTHER wrote: "A large purchase, now, is sending another message, bring gold back into $320 to $360 US$ range. We should see this in five to ten days. This will be a hard thing, as it may create a crush to cover."

And you wrote: "So far I can recall, there was no prediction at all."

What word would you ascribe to his statement as to what we would see in the future?

The Preacher

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:40 - ID#246224)
More Y2K splash for the faithful
Society for Information Management survey polling 200 companies which represent 10% of US GDP results:

1 ) Less than half of the Y2K projects that are in process in these ecompanies are beyond the planning stage ( are actually being implemented ) .

2 ) This despite the fact that Y2K Project Directors in these same enterprises estimate that more than 70% of the project work lies ahead after the plans are developed.

3 ) Asked to rate their degree of completion on a scale of 1 to 10, these project leaders from enterprises with average annual revenue of more than US$ 4 Billion gave their projects an average score of 2.5, up from 2.4 from the previous year.

4 ) These same Y2K Project Directors reported that they were devoting only 50% of their time to these efforts, up from 31% last year.

5 ) 25% of industry leaders from sectors other than the high tech area are NOT taking the problem seriously.

As reported in article by Leon A. Kappelman, Co-Chair of S. of I. M. , March 16th, 1998 article "2000's Leadership Vacuum".

When I find hard numbers I will post them. I think this shows that we indeed have a problem which will not be pretty in the least. If 25% of industry leadership has no credible commitment to Y2K remediation then I can only hope that none of us need those enterprises or their products/services. Maybe its all the balloon manufacturers, eh???

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:43 - ID#225273)
If ANOTHER is A.A. Aziz, whom I think you are saying is connected to the Saudi Royal family, how would we account for those posts by ANOTHER that were written in a completely different style than 95% of his posts?

The Preacher

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:45 - ID#410198)
just in case some of you are depressed today time to revisit honest money

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:45 - ID#252127)
Light Sweet Crude @ $13.29

Looks like they are giving it away.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:49 - ID#251166)
Allen (USA) re. your 13:19

I arrived at a similar conclusion toward the end of last month, but through the back door of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Maybe it'd work something like this:

The US dollar is the current international currency. It's not backed by anything. It will certainly eventually fail.

The ECU on the other hand is establishing a currency that will certainly be backed by gold -- that is, a stable currency.

When the US dollar fails -- whether under its own weight, or by Y2K, or both -- the only stable currency to run to will be that of the ECU.

Different handles for the "Euro dollar" have been bandied about. But what if they just settled on calling it the Mark?


(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:51 - ID#225273)

From your posts last night I gleaned you are Rhodesian. I never made it over to Rhodesia. I did spend three months in South Africa in 1990, just after Mandela was let out of jail for good behavior.
I was a friend of Dr. Andries Treurnicht before he died. Also, the planners of Chris Hani's assassination were buddies of mine with the exception of the trigger man. They didn't check with me about it before the deed was done, though. I first learned who did it from reading the New York Times.
I'll tell you this. Clive Derby-Lewis, who has now served nearly five years for conspiracy in the murder, wasn't involved in it. His wife was, though, and she was acquitted at trial. Clive took the rap for her. That's quite a brave thing for a husband to do.

The Preacher

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:54 - ID#288369)
@From the Book of ANOTHER, chapter 3, verse 16......
And thus it will come to pass that the fairest of the royal metals shall rise into the neighborhood of 16 score of sheckles and in the passeth of the tenth day, not counting the sabbath, the glorious rise shall fulfill 18 score of sheckles. "Fear Not", And with this, he was gone from our midst.

Commentary: In this passage, ANOTHER was metaphorically speaking of five to ten days in much the say manner as Moses described the creation of heaven and earth in the passage of six days. It is more important to dwell on his utterance of "Fear Not". One may safely conclude from this message's not his money.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 15:55 - ID#225273)
jonesy & Bible prophecyI arrived at a similar conclusion toward the end of last month, but through t
I'm more than a little curious as to what in Bible prophecy brought you to this conclusion?

The Preacher

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:01 - ID#222231)
The opening prelude to the poem was not written by ANOTHER. If you read farther into his writtings, the style to ANOTHERS is very similar.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:07 - ID#410198)
Preacher,as John D says small world,all I can say is America better learn the from the South African
experiance,just like the scam with this new aid package that Clinton is trying to sell the GDP, he is once again pandering to the Black vote same as Carter did,this time Afican NAFTA is going to cost American Blacks their jobs,this aid package if you read it,gives countrys like China the right to ship its goods to Africa then onto USA duty free..WHAT A DEAL...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:08 - ID#285392)
Glenn Thank you for the information
You are right I believe my broker is an idiot but I will go back to him with this information and if there is still no result I will change brokers. I have contacted two other brokers and they do not want to touch far out options saying that they are for the uninitiated who are willing to be fleeced. I follow your posts regularly and have kept them on file since the discussion days of you and oldman from over a year ago.

Thank you

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:08 - ID#258129)
@Preacher , 15:36 - about English
As we all know from the school times, number of quotation marks should be even - in any language. It is not the case with ANOTHERs message we are talking about. So, one can drop the missing one any place he like. That changes the meaning of the whole message. Try it yourself, using complete text of the message.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:17 - ID#251166)
@ Preacher

Interpreting the formation of the ECU as the revival of the old Roman Empire . . .

. . . and lots of conjecture.


dean jones

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:19 - ID#288369)
@Jack...$13.29 Crude....
You may already know this, but just in case....the price paid the producer is $2.25US less than the futures price...hence, the real crude price today is $11.04/bbl. Yuck.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:21 - ID#254110)
Virus of the month
Hi all just lurking but I thought as you are all obviously on the web you might be interested in this little tid bit.

Subject: New Virus Warning
Date: March 16, 1998 10:30 AM

March 16, 1998 - Received this warning from my sister-in-law in Ontario.
Thought I better pass it on right away. -Anne Shuster-Sargent

Date: Friday, March 13, 1998 12:10:00
From: Katrina Moy
To: Peter Moy;; Andrew Moy;
Subject: New Virus Warning

Our company received a fax today from J.L. Richards in Sudbury.
They are passing along a warning from Microsoft about a new virus: If you receive e-mail titled "WIN A HOLIDAY", DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this letter out to as many people as you can. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it. This information was announced March 9, 1998 from Microsoft. Please share it with everyone who might access the Internet. Also, DO NOT open or even look at any mail that says "RETURNED OR UNABLE TO DELIVER". This virus will attach itself to your computer components and render them useless. Immediately delete any mail items with this message. AOL has said that this is a very dangerous virus and that there is NO remedy for it at this time.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:28 - ID#368244)
@ Studio R

It was right before our eyes, congratulations on unscrambling the riddle of ANOTHER. In the words of Spock of Star Trek fame, minutes shall be as days , and days shall be as years. BOY!!! I feel better now.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:29 - ID#225273)
jonesy & old Roman Empire
I guess I don't believe the old Roman Empire will be revived in the manner that many do.
Here's an article that explains the Mark of the Beast and related topics in a way I can understand.

Hope you enjoy it,

The Preacher

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:31 - ID#288369)
"Fear not." ( Unless its your own money )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:32 - ID#36156)
JDS-BC_A RE: Holiday Virus Alert
It's a hoax. Actually, both are.


(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:37 - ID#286262)
STUDIO R & Okie Oil Field Trash

I've had it with north Florida. I'm going back to Oklahoma. Any work in the oil patch? or are they waiting to see where the price goes. I'm comin home regardless. Former pipeline and former mud engineer.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:37 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 29.63 ( This is a new high )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:40 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .256

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:41 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 48.40

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:41 - ID#225273)
Robnoel & Pandering
I guess I see what Carter did as motivated by something deeper than "pandering to the black vote." Same goes for Ian Smith and F.W. de Klerk.
One item of Mozel's post from yesterday that I thought was right on the money was his insight that Lincoln had overthrown the U.S. Constitution with his war. Lincoln and the Abolitionists represented a radical new philosophy and religion that went against every tenet on which America was founded.
They represented Equalitarianism in essentially the same way that the Jacobins of the French Revolution and the Bolsheviks of the Russian Revolution did.
"Equality" was there morality, much like Tolerant1.
Lincoln sent the message that any obstruction of equality was to be met with the most violent means available to suppress it. It has taken over 125 years of this new religion for America to get where it is today, the land of equalitarianism. It will suffer the same fate as the Bosheviks and the Jacobins, but things are taking longer than usual.
Carter is an equalitarian. To him, the situation in Rhodesia was morally repugnant because it was an anti-equalitarian system.
"The black vote" was a bonus for Carter. His real aim was to spread equalitarianism. His actions in Rhodesia a missionary effort carried on with religious zeal.
That's my perspective.

The Preacher

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:46 - ID#244242)
Not to worry... I received confirmation a few days ago that the 'WIN A HOLIDAY' virus is just another email-clogging hoax spread by well meaning folk. Just because Microsoft is mentioned does not necessarily validate the message. If you look on the Microsoft site, there is no mention of this so-called virus.



(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:49 - ID#288369)
@Spanky....I have forwarded my checkered resume' to.......
CherOkee. He keeps speaking of the great and growing lawn mowing bidness down there in Harris County, Tx.. Evidently, he has developed a revolutionary posture for pushing the mower. He constantly speaks of "leaning into" the mower and not fearing the blade...I anxiously await his offering me a position on the ground level. I'll pass along your oil patch work here, except, at TEXACO convenience stores.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:56 - ID#410198)
Preacher,you can't put Ian Smith in the same boat as F.W,...Smith was going for a Republic form

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:57 - ID#408228)
Indonesia political situation RE: FCX
I have previously posted information regarding FCX, where I indicated that a primary risk ( and the obvious one ) is that the mine is located in Irian Jaya,Indonesia. This link may give cold comfort to holders of Indo. mining and petroleum issues, though if the government falters,??

(Mon Mar 16 1998 16:58 - ID#410194)
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released a few minutes ago:

Gold: Fell 296 troy ounces to 478,090

Silver: Fell 1,036,542 ( ! ) to 90,503,725

Copper: Fell 722 short tonnes to 114,922

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:02 - ID#288295)
jonesy @ EURO

It would be more in line with the Roman Empire idea if they called the EURO a dinar....shazam!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:02 - ID#26793)
Japanese banks with a negative net worth; there are more than 9 of them.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:10 - ID#26793)
Senate committee approves IMF bailout without abortion rider.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:14 - ID#344308)

don't be afraid of the lawnmower blade...job hunting?
houston is the place.....the houston chronicle sunday
classifieds are absolutely brimming with oil field,
computer, manufacturing jobs, etc....
it is just like the last big boom......right before the bust.

cycles...and peopleo. birds of a feather...we cannot escape the
inevitability of expansion, naturally followed by contraction.

'for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction' isaac newton.

gold is calling those willing to take that first step. no one will take
it for you....once in a life-time opportunities are quite fleeting.
recognition requires cognition and non-somnambulance like states...something peopleo lack.

opportunity knocks ever so softly, and the only way to hit a home run.... to step-up, to the plate...


Bully Beef
(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:18 - ID#259282)
Invest in Europe now.
Have been told after the union is ironed out good things will happen. Some of the poorer areas will really roll. Get in on the ground floor. That's only if you want to make money on paper. GO GOLD!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:20 - ID#254110)
Thanks for the great site I made it a favorite!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:21 - ID#26793)
Greek left and right wings sharply disagree on merits of 14% devaluation

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:22 - ID#26669)
Mike Sheller, Very good, Grasshopper!
So now, having said that do you see the correlaton between the present day collecitve consciousness of the neoliberals, particularly those affiliated with the "prochoice" and Hitler's ant men? Calling them right or left merely tells which seat on the socialist juggernaut they occupy. IMHO

( BTW, the NeoNazis and modern Klan are just as hard to fathom but they're not classic rightists except superficially. From my readings about them they look more like a 19990's version of the 1960's Black Panthers, ie influenced by a sythesis of apostate religion, racial paranoia and Maoist dielectic with more than a smidgin of substance abuse and thrill seeking mixed in. ) IMHO

Well, the next week will be the determinant in whether palladium continues on track or fizzles. I keep looking at my $26 sell target for my SWC and wondering if I'm overly pessemistic. A quicker and smarter person would have been buying the dips and selling the candlesticks. IMHO

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:23 - ID#227290)
Robnoel & Ian Smith
Can you please refresh my memory? What were some of the particulars that I. Smith was shooting for?

The Preacher

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:26 - ID#288399)
IMF/Senate approval
With the Fed out of the way and/or lending support to the stock/bond run-up, the political way was cleared to pass the IMF funding. After all, 7 weeks of straight increases and 1,000 points up on the Dow do wonders to quell the previously-cranky constituents who, before Christmas, were infuriated at another IMF bailout. And so it goes.....

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:28 - ID#26793)
Low oil prices hurting Mexico

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:32 - ID#339265)

My Favorite Catch-Phrases from the Asylum.


Lurker 777
(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:32 - ID#317247)
Puetz where are you?
Bought some OEX 515 March puts for 4 1/8 each at the close of trading today with stops at 3 1/8. If Asia closes higher tonight I should be stopped out in the morning.

Hmmm, maybe I should call the POST and tell them I too have been molested by the Prez. Naaa, that would surly put the DJIA over 9000 by noon tomorrow.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:37 - ID#251166)
@ Preacher

Thank you for the url; surfed all over Mr. Wheeler's web site too.

With all due respect, sir, in regard to your subscription to Mr. Wheeler's interpretation of scripture, you are a fine analyst of the precious metals market.

I once had a pastor who said, "A half truth is a whole lie." So goes the inverse: A whole lie may be constructed upon a little bit of truth.

Perhaps Mr. Wheeler has been bestowed with such insight. But this is not the forum to discuss it.

Feel free to write me at .



(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:41 - ID#26793)
Two rating agencies downgrade Indonesian currency (only posting one of them

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:41 - ID#287277)
China's "Problems"...
Hong Kong Business Standard Tues Mar 17 1998

Export surge unlikely to continue

BEIJING: Beijing's export spurt during the first two months of the
year is unlikely to be sustained as Asian's financial crisis is
starting to dent future orders, a mainland trade official says.

Kong Fanchang, a researcher at the Foreign Trade Institute under the Ministry of Foreign Trade, said the 15.7 per cent export
growth rate recorded for the first two months of the year
reflected past orders being fulfilled.

``From the contracts we've signed in recent months, we can see future exports will be affected by the crisis,'' Mr Kong said.
He declined to quantify the possible impact.

The mainland economy has so far seen little fallout from the region's economic crisis that has wiped out half the value of some
countries' currencies and stock markets.

The 15.7 per cent year-on-year export gain shows rising demand in
the US and European markets is MORE than off-setting dips
in shipments to some Southeast Asian partners and South Korea.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:44 - ID#36156)
JDS-BC__A - Virus Alert
Don't mention it. Now, if only "fixing" the GOLD bug were as easy.

HenryD - Go GOLD ( Pleaaaaaaaaaase! )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 17:49 - ID#287277)
The obligatory devaluation of the yuan story...

DBS sees 5pc yuan devaluation to take on rivals

By Bayani Cruz

DBS Securities on Monday warned a 5 per cent devaluation of the yuan was possible this year.

DBS Securities Investment Research said such a move was needed in order to keep the mainland competitive against other
Asian economies in the wake of the regional currency turmoil.

``While prominent government officials have stressed the importance of maintaining the renmimbi exchange rate, there is a small
chance of a devaluation of the yuan of around 5 per cent in 1998,'' DBS Securities economist Chu Sui-wah said on Monday.

``The yuan is estimated to be 4 per cent overvalued against the US dollar on purchasing power parity,'' Mr Chu said.

The fair value of the mainland currency should be about 8.6 per cent based on DBS Securities' estimate of the mainland's
purchasing power parity, Mr Chu said

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:04 - ID#238295)
ALL; GLENN has mad many good forecasts, but he has erred enormously at times. Back in late 1996 when oil was around $24, he was talking about $30+ in 1997. Well it was all downhill from there to the current level of around $13. So do not be mesmerized by his bearish call on gold.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:07 - ID#287277)
News from Turkey --Army coup? Can't move freight?
Headlines from DNYA
March 16, 1998 Monday

General Staff Puts the Point to Speculations of "Transition Regime" A statement of the General Staff Secretary put an end to rumors that the ARMY IS IN PREPERATION OF A COUP. The statement says: "No commander of the Turkish Armed Forces is after personal power," and describes the comments in a number of journals as "fantasy scenarios" which are "unfair and unintelligible." The statement points out that these baseless rumors damage the esteem of Turkey bothj domestically and internetionally. Commanders, whose retirements are due this August, made clear that there won't be any prolongation of duty.

What Happens to a FIFO world when they cant move freight?

Navigation Sector in Crisis
The drop in international freight charges due to the crisis in Asia, has affected Turkish navigators, whose credit debts to local and foreign banks are overdue. Navigators, who suffer of cash problem, have been negotiating with banks for prolongement of payment terms. The problem is also discussed at the High Planning Council, which is expected to reach a decision by the end of the month. DTO ( Navigation Chamber of Trade ) chairman Kaptanoglu said that there was not a single bank to support navigation. Sector's incomes are not considered export revenues thus navigation sector cannot enjoy Eximbank support.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:07 - ID#372262)
$10.00 OIL!

Studio R--Are you the guy who said we could never have $10 oil again? Well $10.00 here we come!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:10 - ID#266110)
@ Preacher your 16:29 Mark of the Beast
Thanks for the post, am going to read it tonight

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:13 - ID#26793)
Indian gold going to the ME and US as jewelery; offsets lost Asian sales

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:13 - ID#372262)

Angle of ascent in DJ is now at the crisis blow-off angle of 90 degrees and higher! I give this market till the end of March and then a sickening plunge back to reality! 19% overvalued as of today! Market crashed in '87 at 30 % overvaluation! This market is juied-up with scared money from Asia and Europe!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:15 - ID#258129)
Bully Beef, 17:18 (Invest in Europe now.)
Europe is going up now, its true. Right annual figures comes out day after day and thats will continue for some time. But what I can see, volumes are not that high and mostly build by enthusiastic private money, not "big guys". Probably, there will be correction - in April? After correction the right thing to do for the one who decided to play with paper - invest in software companies, dealing with Y2K and EURO problems.
Go Gold

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:19 - ID#251268)
sorry for that post about T.J. haven't researched him enough
to say he was a liberal but from reading his book he was very
liberal with the truth and seemed to shape reality around his
own perceptions of what it should be instead of what it is.
Realty is I hope I'm not asleep when Gold takes off but at this
rate I'd better stock up on coffee.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:21 - ID#26793)
@SDRer; could this be related to your post on Turkey? Saw days ago but did not post

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:23 - ID#357147)
Gold Inventory and FCX
I am very new to the gold market. Is there a website that shows the inventory levels of gold and the supply and demand over time?

Also, does anyone have any comments regarding Freeport McMoran ( FCX ) which is trading at all time lows?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:28 - ID#266110)
@ronoel RE: your 15:45 What Drives the Price of Gold
Thanks for the post. For those who haven't read it, there are some good issues discussed.
1. The Gold Mining Industry shoots itself in the foot
2. Gold has notbeen even 2nd best as a store of value
3. A need to hedge governments monetizing of its obligations ( my favorite )
4. A need to hedge systemic risk
5. A question of justice
5. When should you buy gold? Better 5 years too early than a day late

Preach on brother !!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:29 - ID#341234)
To: rlk
Check out
This site has pretty good daily updates.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:29 - ID#287277)
South China Business Post, Tues Mar 17, 1998

IMF reworks Indonesia reform and aid package
The International Monetary Fund intends to rework its entire reform programme for Indonesia based on up-to-date figures that better reflect the country's plight, a senior IMF official said.

'Blind' Hasan admits ignorance of new job
Indonesia's new Trade and Industry Minister, Mohammad "Bob" Hasan, has defended monopolies which are in "the public interest", attacked the foreign media and confessed he knew nothing about his new job.

Beijing set for launch of first funds for public subscription The mainland's nascent fund management industry will take a leap forward next week when its first state-approved securities investment funds open for public subscription.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:30 - ID#288369)
@Golden Profit (hopefully)...I never said oil couldn't hit $10.....but...
if I did...I was lying. Besides that...and as always, "I reserve the right to change my mind and to not recall my previous position." And besides that....Everyone knows you can not "say" words here at can merely post them. ( I learned this crap from Willy )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:38 - ID#287277)
Macedonia, Cyprus and Turkey--the bubbling cauldron!

Let us hope NOT Donald...but it looks rather like oozing coincidence does it not?
But any degree of certitude? Do not know! I had thought the Turkish 'problem' might be a result of the Islamic monetary conflict? This is
yet 'another' "wait and see"...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:46 - ID#359316)
On Alchemy and Obscurity
"Paracelsus...commenced writing words upon alchemy and medicine, which immediately fixed the attention of Europe. Their great obscurity was no impediment to their fame; for the less the author was understood, the more the demonologists, fanatics, and philosopher's-stone hunters seemed to appreciate him."

- Charles Mackay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds ( 1852 )

"In another volume should these be favourably received, the Author will attempt a complete view of the progress of Alchemy..." - preface to 1841 edition.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 18:57 - ID#287312)
Golden Profit / Blow-off
By my calculations the U.S. equities market is 160% above it's historical averages. Using 4 historical averages P/B, P/E, Dividend yield, and Value of the market in relation to the GDP the Dow would be at approximately 3150. Scarry ain't it.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:02 - ID#187218)
got this chart off web re: Eagle Sales,,,,,,

(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:09 - ID#287277)
Somebody needs gold...
The Economic Times of India, Tues Mar 17 1998
Jewellers keen to import gold directly to Rajkot
Santosh Chowdhury

JEWELLERS in Rajkot are keen on importing gold biscuits directly to Rajkot city through air charters from west Asia which can easily land in the city airport.

Right now, gold biscuit consignments arrive at the Ahmedabad international airport and sold through a dealer network to the jewellers in Rajkot, gold market sources told The Economic Times.

A minimum of 60 to 70 kgs of gold jewellery is manufactured in Rajkot city per day. A monthly charter of jewellery to west Asia in bulk could turn out to be far cheaper than sending export consignments in instalments.

Question: What does 60 to 70 kgs [kilograms?] per day work out to
longer term--approximate, ballparkish, GUESS-wise---by someone wise
enough to guess {:- )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:13 - ID#329157)
You feel hot breath on the back of your neck.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:18 - ID#287312)
Kilo=2.2 lbs.X 16oz per lb.= 35.2 oz. X 60 per day=2112 oz. a day
Hope that's right, someone confirm please

(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:19 - ID#287277)
From Russia, with love--to cheer you up...
St. Petersburg Times Tues Mar 17 1998
Lawmakers Creatively Spend Their $940,000

What would you do with $940,000? That is the happy question each of St.
Petersburg's 50 local legislators must wrestle with, for each has at his or her disposal a slush fund of 5.645 million rubles drawn from city coffers.

See--I bet your politicos--wherever you may be--are not QUITE so openly
greedy! On the other hand--if you're American, that's probably your money in the first place! {:- ) bbl

(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:21 - ID#287277)
Suspicious --Many thanks!
Close enough for my purposes. Thank you again ( and so fast! )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:22 - ID#431263)
Clinton Blow-Off ABOUT TO DEFLATE!
$10 oil will pressure Mexico and Latin America to devalue their currencies once again! Deflation will devastate corporate balance sheets and cause a market debacle even worse than '29! Liquidity squeeze will cause the Fed to panic print US dollars like no tomorrow setting the stage for hyperinflation down the road! $293 gold cannot last for long given this scenario! Better to buy it a day early than a day late! The white metals are telling us that once the CB games have played themselves out gold will rocket to the moon! Get your tickets now while the gettin's good!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:22 - ID#288295)
rlk @ FCX
I don't own this stock, but Solomon Smith Barney recently rated it their #1 pick of mining stocks, and they are selectively bullish on the group. If copper and gold are bottoming now ( many think so ) the stock is a steal. Also, FCX has some interesting preferred stocks C and D, whose dividend is related to the price of gold and silver respectively.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:44 - ID#393224)
1 kilo=32.151 troy oz x 60 = 1929oz/day

(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:44 - ID#392328)


(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:51 - ID#347457)
We Preach What We Believe
Here we go again, most of us post "analysis" proving what gold will do, however, most of it based on our beliefs. We use factors like BC screw-up, Dow overvaluation to a ridiculous level, Joe Doe false belief that mutual funds can go up forever, etc.. However, we tend to forget that our ( gold bugs ) believe is maybe based on false premises as well. So we keep saying  based on technical analysis well see gold temporarily droop to XXX before it takes off  we are just forming "head and shoulder" and itll be on up-swing from now  gold it coupled ( or not ) with oil  etc.. and the story repeats over and over, however, it does not want to play we want it to play .. but ... our beliefs are strong ;- )

Lets face it, we dont have a clue!!

- Miro "signing up into gold addiction treatment clinic because I am believe in upswing, however my addiction is destroying my financial well-being ;- ( "

(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:51 - ID#210253)
Golden Cheesehead/No devaluation
Argentina will hold fast to the USD as their Peso is tied 1:1 constitutionally and with use of a currency board. Argentina is one of the fastest growing, most highly developed countries in S. America. Up to the beginning of this century, Argentina was more prosperous than US. As the $ goes, so goes the A.Peso. Check it out for yourself.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 19:52 - ID#348286)

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:00 - ID#222231)
ANOTHERS possible Identity
I posted this earlier today and am amazed no one is interested in ANOTHERS identity. I would appreciate someone elses remarks. It desrves some investigation because if A A Aziz is ANOTHER, he's one cool dude and I am going to take his advice seriously. Help, I need someone elses opinion. Besides, things are slow tonite.

click "collin seymour:stock market crash page"

Go To "OPINION & EDITORIAL COMMENTS" click " Alchemy and Poetry
for Goldbugs ( March 10, 1998, revised March 12 ) NEW!

cick "ANOTHER-A A Aziz"

Go back to collin seymour page and read "INVESTOR BIOGRAPHIES"
for some revealing bios on A A Aziz.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:06 - ID#210253)
Re: Preach

That was beautiful. But it's far too late to give up the faith!
Time to get movin'........Go Team Gold

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:07 - ID#339265)
ANOTHER LITMUS TEST OF GOLD & SILVER DEFEAT... know gold and silver are in the toilet when postings occur ( on average ) every 8-10 minutes apart.


(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:10 - ID#255151)
BIG Y2K NEWS and Miro

Just found out that we got a BIG Year 2000 problem looming in Indianapolis. They are pushing to have the Republican convention here in 2000. ( only thing worse would have been the Dems ) G'day Miro, thanks for your reply. I would like to pick your brain every few months on this question. Go Gold!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:12 - ID#222231)
*Farfel the unpronouncable
Come on farfel, I respect your opinion.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:15 - ID#215208)
PA/PL Going Vertical
Palladium seems to be blowing past the 278-280 range where I thought it might top out. Seems the sky is the limit! Historically, PA and PL peak together when these big moves occur. I think that PL will make it to 425 at least. It still has 22 to go. This means that PA could run another 2-3 days. If so, it will blow through the price of gold like it was standing still. ( Oh, yeah, I forgot. It is standing still. )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:16 - ID#339265)
...when you speak with coin dealers who ridicule any purchase of gold and keep pushing platinum coins at you on the basis that they are a "NO-LOSE" investment in which it is inconceivable there is any potential, sigificant downside.


(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:22 - ID#348286)
Is there a Betty Ford clinic for treating recovering GoldBugs?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:28 - ID#411149)
goldbug's Home Page
Fred- Steve Kaplan has moved his site but I do not know where.
Could someone post the new location?

Tally Ho

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:28 - ID#26144)
Suspicious - re gold calculations
I believe there are only 14 ( Troy ) ounces in a pound. Anyone else can correct me if I am wrong......

Bully Beef
(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:28 - ID#260119)
Thus Spake Zarathrustra !
Yes. There is a bad gold day happening. At least when it bounced up and down you could get enthused. Vat vold der Obermann suggest is a proper course of action. Should I stay or should I go.If I stay it could be trouble . If I go it could be double. Some one's got to let me know. Should I stay or should I go? Go gold soon. I'm getting weak.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:30 - ID#1264)
Sunshine (SSC)
Could I get anyone's opinion of SSC. And, does anyone think I could get it for a buck or less?


(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:31 - ID#43489) ANOTHERS identity..VERY interesting info
you've provided. Almost too good to be true.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:37 - ID#30116)
Money supply growing too fast???

The 'Shadow' says to raise rates now to reign in money supply...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:39 - ID#251166)
@ Pete
Yes, I did check out Colleen's site and read all about the prince who could be ANOTHER, as I'm sure a few others did too. You're right, what a guy! But I think a lot of us are waiting 'til this Friday ( Day 10ish ) to deem the words of ANOTHER ( whoever he/she is ) worth heeding.


(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:41 - ID#217338)
Troy= 12 oz lb

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:42 - ID#26144)
Re S.J. Kaplan
He is now at - Enter the site and click on the
appropriate box....

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:45 - ID#255151)
An interest rate increase would be the most unexpected move on the part of the Federal Reserve. We all know the reasons it can't happen. Therefore, we'll probably get it!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:45 - ID#411112)
Preacher:to answer your question I will post a responce in the AM MST but I have to go now,

question to all...Clinton said he was mistified by an event he claims he never saw...beam me up...good nite all

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:46 - ID#26144)
Palladium is now bid at $289.00 - only $5.50 to go and it will
pass gold, now bid at $294.50 -

Interesting Times
(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:46 - ID#423355)
Pete: re ANOTHER
I also found the sheik stories fascinating, and wish to thank you for posting them. I'm not clear however that the A.A. Aziz who wrote the ( very ANOTHERish ) gold alchemy poetry is necessarily the billionare contrarian investor. There does seem to me to be remarkable depth in ANOTHER's observations, and I'm interested in hearing him further advance his concepts. Then again, if gold doesn't leap and cavort as per his prediction, an explanation at least might be in order...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:52 - ID#20767)
What to do?
My handle refers to the tote board, not the stock ticker. In this kind of environment I have learned that two basic talents are required: discipline and patience. Anything else is probably knee-jerk.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:52 - ID#30116)
A most curious turn of events indeed ( especially for the deflation oriented gold bugs! ) . I guess that's how you stop deflation, with an interest rate increase....

Hardly a day goes by where I DON'T see a new house being built on some postage stamp sized lot around here. The facts of the matter are this; It takes money ( or credit ) to buy the materials to build with and pay the employees... At some point there will be a grand bust, but for now, let the party continue!!!!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:54 - ID#411149)
All of you people that are tryin to wait this market out and are
getting ansy would be advised to buy a couple or three good leveraged gold stocks. Then go fishin or golfin or workin and don't even think
about them stocks for a good while and all of a sudden one weekend
while you are watchin the sports it will be announced that there
is a huge shortage of gold stocks and if anybody has any for sale
please name your price, any price and come forward to recieve your
prize. BTW- the prize will probably be the deed to the whole place!

Don't worry be happy!

Tally Ho

FCX is and has been one of the most recommended stocks to own for a long time by a lot of brokers, especially the preferred shares. Now I am sure
it is a fine stock especially because it is located in the most corrupt state [and you thought that was Russia or Washington or some other far off place].

For the RISK of this or any market why don't you get the most for your money and find some good leveraged stock and hold on until you own the place. ie- 1993/94 the top fund was Lexington Stragetic Investment fund
UP 297% for the year. Now that ain't bad but if you had owned the share
that was responsible for the gain, without all the FAT then you could have enjoyed the more than double that return. If you got enough money [$500-1000]to buy three good leveraged stocks then you got your OWN mutual fund.

Iffin it would only quit rainin then I am goin fishin!

Tally Ho#2

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:55 - ID#31868)
Sunshine re-SSC
For my money I like First Silver Reserve - FSR - Canadian, on NASDAQ FSR.TO - do yourself a favor and go to and click on the digest section and then click on the GOLDBUG - read that article and then go to the bottom of the page and click through the other articles and you will get some solid information on silver stocks.

Happy hunting.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:56 - ID#260433)
40 Years ago when I was in high school my father gave me his views on capitalism. They went something like this. Pure capitalism is doomed to failure because the wealth and money created by it are constantly moving toward fewer and fewer hands. The rich get richer and the poor either get poorer or stay static. Government trys through a variety of means to prolong the cycle. Mangagement of interest rates smooths the business cycle and adds years to it. Taxes and redistributing the wealth add more years to the larger cycle. Eventually all is doomed to failure as the wealth of the nation gets concentrated into fewer hands. Fiat currency is part and parcel of this whole thing. Managing interest rates and redistribution of wealth can only go so far. In order to add decades to the larger cycle of boom and bust government must be able to create money from nothing. A 100% gold backed currency prohibits that. Government cannot tolerate a gold standard and must have a fiat currency for the system to work. Once you have a currency based on credit you can really start to add decades to the cycle. Eventually all the wealth will still be concentrated at the top but the time to accomplich this can be stretched out over lifetimes instead of decades. 40 years ago he predicted a great collapse would occur again. He did not think it would be in his lifetime but it would likely be in mine. He said my children would have no first hand memory of the great depression and would have to relearn all the mistakes made in the past. All this leads up to gold. If government cannot compete with gold and must maintain fiat currency for the game to continue to be played what makes anyone think gold will go up in price? Just asking.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:58 - ID#31868)
Ray for Kaplan.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 20:58 - ID#30116)
Almost forgot!
The 100 D.M.A. and the price of gold are very close now. Either gold drops, or we cross the 100 D.M.A. line. The curious thing about this gold bear market is how well the 100 D.M.A. 'decline line' has worked. Well, I guess you puts you're money on the table and spin the wheel or roll the dice... Just remember where you are..., ... in a casino. :- )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:00 - ID#288295)
#1264 @ SSC
At $1.125/share, SSC is just at or slightly above its 50 day moving avg, which is strong support. With silver flat-lining today above $6.00/oz, the prospects for buying SSC under $1/share are iffy at best. But if SSC closes below $1.125 and silver below $6, they will likely to drop a long way. I don't have a strong opinion on the company, although many here do ( good and bad ) .

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:00 - ID#401237)
Gold 911

There is still a pulse!


(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:03 - ID#433422)

In 1933, if one had melted his gold and cast it into statues or jewelry, would he have been legal in keeping it? If the opinion is yes, do you think the same would hold true in a modern confiscation? Do you think a "registration" would precede a confiscation? What do you think of the idea of "low temp" soldering of bullion coins and bars together to form object de art? You think that might escape a future confiscation?
In the event of a major financial collapse, I just dont see how the Gov. would have a choice.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:05 - ID#335190)
Ted @ Gold in Cape Breton wilderness - Liberal YES - Judge NO - Responsible EH!
March 16, 1998
Application by gold company dismissed

HALIFAX ( CP )  A Nova Scotia judge has dismissed an application by an Ontario company to overturn a decision to relist the Jim Campbells barren in Cape Breton as a protected area.

Regal Goldfields had been looking for permission to explore the wilderness area for gold.

Two years ago, the government of then-Liberal premier John Savage took the barren, near Cheticamp, N.S., off the protected spaces list, allowing it to be developed as a mining site.

Environmentalists pressured for the decision to be reversed. Premier Russell MacLellan, who succeeded Savage as Liberal premier,investigated and put the barren back on the list last fall.

The company then petitioned the court to have the decision quashed. A judge today said the province carried out public consultation in good faith, calling the move to reverse the Savage decision a sign of a responsible government.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:06 - ID#373403)
Whats next, silver goes to $300/oz?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:08 - ID#31868)

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:09 - ID#260433)
Gold up in Australia. What next?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:09 - ID#432169)
Tolerant1 - Re: FSR
It is presently listed on the VSE - not the TSE. Should be moving to the TSE soon though. They has a good PR today .... increased reserves considerably. One of the better ( best? ) junior silver stocks .... will do nicely in a silver bull.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:11 - ID#222231)
G-Spot,Jonesy,Interesting Times
ANOTHER made his prediction on 4/09/98 and said 5 to 10 days. Time will tell. I hope he's right.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:13 - ID#255151)
My 2 Cents on Gold Confiscation.

Ain't gonna happen. Look, in 1933 people believed what the President told them. If they tried that today, there would be an explosion of lawsuits, letter writing campaigns to Congress, and widespread noncompliance. And don't forget, the U.S. Government is producing, marketing, and selling Gold bullion coins. You can even own Eagle Gold coins in an IRA.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:14 - ID#288295)
It's probably easier just to go out and buy a bunch of cheap bezels to fit your eagles & maples, so they could be passed off as jewelry.....BTW, I understand that no one was ever actually punished in 1933 for NOT turning in bullion, in spite of the threats of heavy fines or imprisonment in the confiscation order.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:15 - ID#30116)
Maltese Falcon?

Perhaps a better solution to the dire scenario you paint is to own a fine firearm, develop the ability to use it well, and have the will to use it.

Yea Verily, if chaos reigns, cry havoc! Loose the dogs of war!

Translation, if things get that BAD, I would be more worried about personal safety. Politicians have a nasty habit of starting noisy disagreements ( with lots of base metals involved ) with other nations over far less, in order to cure such problems...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:19 - ID#31868)
goldhound - thanks
Right you are, should have been FSR.V - I'm tellin ya, if I had another brain it would die of loneliness!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:19 - ID#433422)
silverbaron, thanks, espesially for the

tidbit that noone was actually punished, I'd wondered 'bout that.
Auric, think "TOUGH" times.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:21 - ID#433422)
Panda, as a matter of fact, your advice is earnestly followed here.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:22 - ID#335190)
Rubin - Spokesperson for USofA Treasury OR Federal Reserve Corporation????
March 16, 1998
Rubin opposes financial services reform plan

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - U.S. House Republicans, hopeful they can enact legislation to revamp Depression-era financial services laws, were dealt a blow on Monday when Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin said he was opposed to the latest plan.

"Given the profound deficiencies that I have described ... we oppose this bill and would not recommend its enactment," Rubin wrote in a letter to House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

But Rubin cautioned that the Republican-led plan would "weaken" the national banking system.

The banking industry, which initially sought the reforms, is also opposed to the Republican plan

Rubin said the latest plan would strip away reforms set at by Federal regulators, which have allowed national banks to expand their lines of business.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:24 - ID#433422)
The problem with the cheap bezels is, it's an easily closed loophole

Imagine the legalease.." ....or readily detatched by a reasonable person using commonly available tools.."

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:26 - ID#31868)
- a blurb -
by: Steven Jon Kaplan

Updated @ 6:10 p.m. EST, Monday, March 16, 1998.

COMMENTS OF THE DAY: Commodities were moderately lower on Monday, while precious metals ended mixed. Gold fell eighty cents, silver dropped four cents, platinum rallied $10.40, and palladium surged nine dollars. The traders' commitments for gold, including recent open interest data, are roughly equivalent to what they were in the third week of January when the price of the yellow metal was four percent lower than it is now. Therefore, commercials have "stepped up" their bullish buying behavior at a higher price level for the first time since early 1993, the classic signal for the earliest stages of a bull market. Of course, if U.S. equities continue to be strong, this will distract attention from alternative investments such as gold, which will delay but certainly not prevent this rally.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:27 - ID#288295)
But - they didn't size people's homes back then, just 'cause they happened to be holding too much cash, so take care with your backyard gardening or those things you sink in the fish pond......On the jewelry thing, I mean REALLY cheap know, that nasty old SILVER stuff ( us silver bugs need all the help we can get ) ... ( :^{ )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:32 - ID#433422)
silverbaron,I've lurked more than posted,for months,
I probly know you better than you know me, I think you and I are of like mind in many regards,...
I appreciate your input....

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:33 - ID#23398)
ON CBS UP TO 295.30 ON KITCO UP TO 294.80

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:35 - ID#433422)
CUERVO "____", mmmmmmmmmmmmmm


(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:35 - ID#330175)
6 Pak(my friend)(21:05)----that decision is a FARCE from a province that---
still pushes coal mining along once pristine oceanfront property---created and has done nothing about the 'worst toxic waste site' in Canada ( the Sydney Tar ponds ) ---that to this day flow into Sydney harbor ( untreated like all other waste here ) and after walikn almost the entire coastline of CB-NS I am not impressed by the effort to protect the environment and thus I find the decison not to let a gold mining Co. to drill a few test holes ( In barrens that are already significantly trashed ) highly stupid & hypocritical.....More political bull-sh!t!---and since a contract was signed,I hope the the province gets its ass sued!!...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:35 - ID#288295)
size=seize.....I got your comment about the you think they are ready/willing to take on all the ladies who have their coins set in bezels?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:35 - ID#255151)

Grant--I plan to benignly neglect any confiscation request from the government. If times do get that bad, then confiscation will be only one of many BIG problems. Having said that, I think it is a very good idea to be ready for the worst.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:35 - ID#31868)
At this juncture in history, I think the possibilities for confiscation are zero. Look for the silent majority to turn into a growling, very pissed off highly vocal majority when this next push comes to shove. The pig heads in the District of Columbia have pushed too hard and fast and for all the talk about the mushrooms living off entitlements in the US there are 10s of millions who will not stand for the socialistic crap from the Federalistas'.

Plain old regular folks are already fed up, it will get worse before it gets better. This next go round could very well lead to the states breaking off into territorys. Each part of the US is vastly different and with the exception of the huge cities, the "folks" out there don't like central control of anything.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:39 - ID#433422)
tolerant1,Im one of those folks "out there", way out there!


(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:43 - ID#433422)
Silverbaron... NO DOUBT, ladies...incidentally...

ya know why they call it "PMS"?
'Cause "MAD COW DISEASE" was already taken.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:47 - ID#411149)
tolerant1- thanks!

Ted- I ain't had a chance to talk to Burt, one of these days the rain
might stop and we can play baseball again. Last Saturday the white beat the blue team.

Whileago I told the DOG to go out and he jest looked up and gave
me the SLOW finger.

Tally Ho

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:49 - ID#433422)
Tolerant1, mushrooms

Or perhaps "Blowflies"

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:52 - ID#26669)
grant, if push comes to shove,
Grant: I think that the central Asian jewelry composed of chains hung with as many gold coins, each with a tiny hole drilled in it, might be the way to go. Alternative would be to use lost wax casting and cast all your silver into the form of a giant, emaciated sow with two dozen fat little gold pigs tugging at her. To make it "art" you'd label the sow 'US' and the piglets could be names of porkbarrel projects...hmmm might need more than two dozen so could cast a couple hundred more out of silver. You know the Koreans supposedly already are making a pig bar, but I've never seen one personally.

If Tolerant1 isn't really a federal agent provocateur in disguise he/she will probably cast his/hers into bullets, which will then leave a thick greasy yellow deposit in his barrel and jam, blowing him/her to smithereens before they can put him/her in the reeducation camp.

Goodnight all...shoulda bought more palladium when I had the chance. ;^ )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:52 - ID#288295)
Likewise, my friend - I think you for the kind words. All of us learn a great deal from the synergy of this place, even if we have somewhat different personal tolerances for risk, and visions of the possibilities for what the future holds. As have most here, I have bet big on silver & gold and the mining stocks - it sure takes nerves of steel to bottom-fish and then to watch this stuff go up and back down, instead of only up ( as we all hoped ) . Time will tell....but I keep getting all this mail from astrologers telling me I'm gonna be rich in the next 90 days!!! Go Silver! ( Or give me a call Ed McMahon )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 21:55 - ID#347235)
@ Vronsky
Pls post you website. Reify asked me to contact you

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:00 - ID#30116)
grant (21:43)
LOL... :- ) )

I could hear the Mooooooo in that one...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:00 - ID#255151)

Could not have expressed it better. By the way, I am a proud owner of some good Silver stocks, including First Silver Reserve.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:02 - ID#288295)

think= thank.. ( :^ ) )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:03 - ID#433422)
Silverbaron, the hell with astrologists,

bet on reality. Just so happens that astrology mimics reality.
You are'nt betting your family's destiny on psychics any more than I am, you're here wathchin' the market and makin' decisions that are easy for the informed

Lurker 777
(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:08 - ID#317247)
I have been a staunch Goldbug for too long. Many ( most ) here have loss good money and this is not healthy. I have listened to Chartist, News, Stars, & Another but gold does not listen. We have been in a Bear market for years and until the public buys AND the CBs stop selling, Gold cannot recover.
I have a HUGE position in Phillies and am loosing faith fast. I have bought all my coins for under $300. and with Put options my downside risk is less than 7%. I was poised to double my exposure to Gold if we sank below $287 oz. but now I have reconsidered my position. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! Until gold breaks the 200 day moving average ( $316 ) I will watch the game from the cheap seats.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:13 - ID#215379)
Time to sell a large quantity of US T-bonds and buy Gold. The spread is at its max again.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:15 - ID#288295)
You are right, of course - I wouldn't be in this so deep without a great deal of analysis of the fundamentals, and a general contrarian investing philosophy....but at least the astrologers aren't telling me I'm gonna be a homeless person! Ha! - 'nite all.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:15 - ID#119246)
You are right, of course - I wouldn't be in this so deep without a great deal of analysis of the fundamentals, and a general contrarian investing philosophy....but at least the astrologers aren't telling me I'm gonna be a homeless person! Ha! - 'nite all.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:16 - ID#330175)
Ray-------------------is Bert's father(Dub) still alive?
My father and Warren Lahr ( old Cleveland Browns DB ) from Aurora Ohio were friends with Bert's father~~~~~*go gold*

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:19 - ID#433422)
Silverbaron, hold on, it probly wont happrn in 90 days

but "IT" will happen.. The folks reading this page are predisposed to the foresight that will bring them wealth.
I wonder if this site should coordinate the formation of an international monetary oversight commitee for the "POST" "BUST" era?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:21 - ID#316200)
A Question
Does anyone know what percentage of U.S. treasury debt the
Federal Reserve purchases?

John B__A
(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:23 - ID#211105)
Not a Good Day for Gold and Silver Bugs
It was painful today to see the DOW surge another 100+ points and see gold and silver stagger a bit. However the resistance line has been held pretty well at 294.00 and 6.00 respectively.

It happens so often though that we get scared out by a short-term breakdown below resistance levels. Its a favorite trick of professionals to buy in on the cheap. I think this time though we should hold on to our seats because both gold and silver seem to have stabilized.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:25 - ID#373403)
Objects de'art
As a legitimate jewelry designer I will apply for an official artists certificate from the government so that my creations will be defacto art objects. Then I will cast all your precious metals into official objects for a fee. As certified one of a kind pieces, only I will be able to appraise their value and that will be at RETAIL. "nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation" ( Fifth Ammendment to the Constitution )

Actually, I think it would be better if I sold you my own creations and accepted your precious metals as payment.


(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:30 - ID#31868)
223 - surely you jest - federal provacawhatever - not!
Bullets - why draw attention to yourself. I'll bet I have the most expensive keel on the eastern seaboard bar none.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:34 - ID#255151)

Got a couple of Fosters under my belt. Where's them OZ and NZ posters?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:35 - ID#373403)
Rubin said the latest plan would strip away reforms set at by Federal regulators, which have allowed national banks to expand their lines of business.

It sounds like he is referring to the 1980's overhaul of 1930's regulations which kept banks from getting involved in investment banking and other risky ventures. The "reforms" he wants to protect are those that make banking less safe. $94 Trillion in derivatives probably would not have been allowed prior to the 1980's.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:38 - ID#266105)
@when Barbie went bikers her wallflower got chromed

3000sh Harmony and added 200sh silver-denominated FCXPrD at
market opening ( Mon ) , placed yesterday, ides/15th.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:40 - ID#31868)
Either way, somebody plans on making money -
Investors bet on millennium bomb
Copyright  1998
Copyright  1998 Scripps Howard

Market Indices | Dow Jones Industrials | Internet Stocks | Most Active | Gainers | Losers

( March 16, 1998 12:01 p.m. EST ) -- Hedge funds have taken substantial bets in the financial markets that the "millennium bomb" will paralyze the banking system on Jan. 1, 2000, forcing interest rates higher.

Futures brokers said there had been heavy selling of December 1999 futures contracts in U.S. and German interest rates, in a financial transaction nicknamed the "millennium fly." A trader in New York said more than $5 billion of contracts had been sold.

These investors believe that computer problems will cause significant financial disruption, driving up bond short-term interest rates. This would substantially reduce the value of any interest rate contracts that straddle the beginning of 2000.

The millennium bomb has arisen because many computers will be unable to recognize the year 2000. This could disable programs after midnight on Dec. 31, 1999. So far, the millennium bomb has had a limited impact on financial markets. It has driven up the price of some information technology stocks, owing to consultancy fees that could come from sorting out computing problems.

The millennium fly is a "butterfly spread," where the investor sells December 1999 contracts and buys September 1999 and March 2000 contracts. This would be highly profitable if short-term interest rates rise sharply between December 1999 and March 2000, when the three-month interest rate agreement expires.

The activity has all been concentrated in Eurodollar and Euromark contracts, which are based on U.S. and German interest rates. However, brokers suggested that investors might take positions in bond futures also.

One trader said: "In December 1999, money could become very expensive. People will be out partying for the millennium, computers could be breaking down and so there could be a scramble for cash. This would be made worse if the bomb has a broader economic impact."

Other investors suggested that the hedge funds were scare- mongering in the hope of making a very short-term profit.

Thomas Juterbock, head of U.S. and European government bond trading at Morgan Stanley, said: "It is very hard to discount events that far out. Besides, the market probably hasn't thought enough about what the Central Bank response to this will be, which will be to provide liquidity in a time of uncertainty."

He said that there would probably be an additional bank holiday over the millennium period, providing more time to resolve any difficulties.

By SIMON DAVIES, The Financial Times

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:41 - ID#433422)

yeah, you got my idea, what say you and I take over the world???

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:43 - ID#373403)
I already did. Give me all your gold and I'll think about cutting you in.

The Hatt
(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:44 - ID#294232)
Message of the month! If you want to sell your PM please do!
The last time the yen got flattened gold dropped $5.00 today the yen takes another hit and gold dropped $.80. It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that the underlying strength is increasing. Timing is anyones guess however when it comes to risk donot let anyone tell you that their is less risk in paper. I will die with my F###### gold if need be. Paper or Gold make up your minds and stay the course!
Just one mans opinion

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:44 - ID#26669)
Steve, what about all us illigitimate artists?
Guess we have to fight it out amongst ourselves in juried shows, huh? Suppose one of those little pigs will be named 'National Endowment for the Arts'. G'night all, this time for real.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:44 - ID#26669)
Steve, what about all us illigitimate artists?
Guess we have to fight it out amongst ourselves in juried shows, huh? Suppose one of those little pigs will be named 'National Endowment for the Arts'. G'night all, this time for real.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 22:48 - ID#252127)
Anyone who doesn't have the Kaplan Site;

try then hit the Enter Site button, Kaplan button will come up in text that follows.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:05 - ID#330175)
Auric.......and drinkin on a Monday night
You should be ashamed of yerself but HAVE FUN~~~~~~~~~~~~and have a couple of them BIG Fosters on MOI....

Interesting Times
(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:15 - ID#423355)
current gold price
CBS has nearest futures at 295.50 at 11:08, but the Kitco chart shows spot at 293.70 at 11:00, after about a .90 drop at 10PM. The tiebreaker at the top of this page went to sleep a few hours back. No help there. Any idea why the discrepancy? I tend to go with the CBS numbers right now, 'cause I like them better...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:18 - ID#255151)
G'day Ted

Next two Fosters on ya, mate. Have you been following NCAA bball? Two Indiana teams still left, Valparaiso ( pronounced val-poh-raise'-oh ) and Purdue. My beloved Hoosiers lost to the UConn Yukons. Still got Larry Bird, eh? Go Gold!

(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:22 - ID#401237)
The Tonight Show

Slick Willey said to Kathleen Willey, what do you say we Free Willey? Jay Leno


(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:24 - ID#401237)
Interesting Times

Is the CBS price April?


(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:27 - ID#28594)
Thought you all could use a good laugh...
FT Tues Mar 17 1998
Mexico: Financial turmoil hid drug cartel's bank purchase

By Leslie Crawford in Mexico City

Mexican drug traffickers took advantage of the country's financial turmoil and lax regulation in 1995 and 1996 to buy a small domestic bank, government officials confirmed yesterday.

It is the first admission that drug cartels succeeded in infiltrating Mexico's weak banking system.

Banking supervisors said the attorney-general's office was investigating the links between Grupo Financiero Anhuac and the Jurez Cartel, the most powerful criminal organisation in Mexico. To date, however, no arrest warrants have been issued in connection with the case.

COMMENT: The trillions of drug money owns--of course--no 'good' banks...

(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:28 - ID#401237)
Another Heart Beat

She is sarting to awake, let her rip!

Go Gold!
Good Night All ,


(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:31 - ID#240316)
@Interesting Times - Gold Price
Check out for quotes which are a a little more current than those to the left. Showing $294.45, +0.15 as of 11:18 eastern time

(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:35 - ID#39845)
When its on the nose, scream for a peg!
Tuesday 17 March, 1998 ( 2:29pm AEDT )

Asian currencies have remained steady today in what
dealers attribute to markets waiting for further news on
whether Indonesia will go ahead with a plan to peg the
rupiah to the dollar.

In early trade today, the Indonesian currency fell to 10,200
against the U-S dollar from yesterday's Asian trading close
of 9,950.

Analysts say Jakarta wants to peg the rupiah at between
5,000 and 6,000 to the dollar to try to stabilise the currency,
which has fallen 70 percent since mid last year, wrecking
the Indonesian economy.

While there was little trading in the rupiah, dealers say most
other Asian currencies have remained firm.

Return to the World News Menu

plus from the Asia Pacific Region in Indonesian, Chinese and Tok Pisin

 1998 Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Tue Mar 17 14:30:00 1998 ( AEDT )

AEDT = Australian Eastern Daylight Time which is 11 hours ahead of UTC ( Greenwich Mean Time )

(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:37 - ID#257136)
Troy weights: 1 ounce =1/12 lb. or x 12 =.373kilogram .
Or 1 avoirdupois pound =.373 kilograms divided by 12 = .311 hectogram

(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:43 - ID#252127)
Contrarian Opinion

Soon after Congress approves the $18 billion IMF bailout, the US populace will wake-up to the fact, that the Rubin dollar miracle is on shaky ground.
The closure of US investor brokerage positions and Mutual Fund positions will follow and be a weight on stocks.

The PPT will first use available tax monies and then the printing presses to hold the market up.

The foreign money that has not yet left our shores will be in deep dung.

I know because I DON'T KNOW jack shit.

(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:46 - ID#257136)
FSC or as it is on the url below FSLVF A good source of stock prices. Easy to use>

(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:46 - ID#210235)
best laugh of the day to ya!


(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:52 - ID#31868)
You should have received email - did you get it?

(Mon Mar 16 1998 23:55 - ID#271383)

This is my first post. Hope to be able to join in the discussions.