Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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Lurker 777
(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:04 - ID#317247)
ANOTHER who are you.
I took this from one of my previous posts. Comments Please!

Another has predicted without any doubt that Gold will not close lower than $280. and the bottom is in. HE WAS CORRECT!

Date: Sat Jan 10 1998 21:03
Hear me now, "if gold tries to go lower than US$ $280 the BIS will buy it OUTRIGHT in the OPEN for all to see"! They must! They will! I know. For no currency system could stand if "Oil" were to bid for gold!

Now check out the chart and tell me what you see? The charts don't lie! Gold went up right after his post. Hmmmmmm

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:07 - ID#345268)
@ Lurker 777

Don't ask indiscrete questions. Mr. Another is entitled to his privacy.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:09 - ID#401460)
Nikkei 225

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:10 - ID#60253)

Date: Wed Mar 25 1998 23:44

Myrmidon ( @ Another ) ID#345268:

Sir, those countries whose CB's do not hold much gold, how are they going to survive in the event of a significant upvaluation of gold?

They will work and produce as all do. See the Japans, they own no oil? Yet, somehow they make much wealth. We must clear our minds of gold as a commodity, it is a money, and money is used to BUY! The oil producers will not keep all gold, as they do not keep any currency. Gold will move, but it will move with honor!

I ask you to read the ( Fri. Jan 23, 1998 22:57 ) written for me. It offers a true feeling for gold.

Thank You

Lurker 777
(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:11 - ID#317247)
Let him answer.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:14 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Brother John,

I regard to PA - I really don't have a good idea.
But, as usual, you are correct - it's Russian drama.
I would say that PA for $360 or more is possible IF
PL moves above $475-500. I think PA is some kind of
alternative for PL in some application, but if PL
is around $400, users would probably prefer to use
"brand name" - PL, not PA. It's like buying VCR
made in Japan vs. buying VCR made in Indonesia - I
always prefer Japanese if price difference is not
too big. However, if there are important applications,
reguiring use of exclusively PA, and Russian export is
paralized, $360 could be a real possibility, although I
do not see this happening very soon.What happened in Russia
on Monday is not promising at all, but it is not deadly also.
It will be deadly when proletariate launches "total strike".
The other problem - I feel Uncle Boris fired government
ALSO because there is problem with wages in major industries.
You remember what I posted before - when workers are
not paid 3 or more month - watch for "firesale" of what
they can export very FAST, to raise cash. Such "firesale" will
limit Russian ability to play smart and w/o rush, so prices
for PA and PL will be under pressure.

Just my take on this problem IN GENERAL.

Your brother Oris.

Interesting Times
(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:14 - ID#423355)
reserve currency shift (ANOTHER)
In your view, is it possible for the change to oil/gold as the new reserve currency to occur without a "currency nuclear war"? How might this be accomplished?


(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:20 - ID#287358)

yes myrmidon, let 'him' answer for 'himself'

why must so many presume so much? the verbage
is american.....the syntax...look closely....

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:22 - ID#266105)
@Days of '49


Here you see old Tom Moore, A relic of by-gone days
A bummer, too, they call me now, But what care I for praise?
For my heart is filled with woe, And I often grieve and pine,
For the days of old, the days of gold, the days of forty-nine.
For the days of old, the days of gold, the days of forty-nine.

I had comrades then, a saucy set, They were rough, I must confess,
But staunch and brave, as true as steel, Like hunters from the west;
But they, like many other fish, Have now run out their line;
But like good old bricks, they stood the kicks, Of the days of forty-nine.

There was Monte Pete, Ill neer forget, The luck that he always had.
Hed deal for you both night and day, Or as long as you had a scad.
One night a pistol laid him out, Twas his last lay out in fine,
It caught Pete sure, right bang in the door, In the days of 49.

There was another chap from New Orleans, Big Reuben was his name,
On the plaza there with a sardine box, He opened a faro game.
He dealt so fair, that a millionaire, He became in course of time,
Till death stept in and called the turn, In the days of 49.

There was Kentuck Bill, one of the boys, Who was always in for a game,
No matter whether he lost or won, To him twas all the same.
Hed ante a slug, hed pass the buck, Hed go a hat full blind.
In a game of death, Bill lost his breath, In the days of 49.

There was New York Jake, the butcher boy, So fond of getting tight,
Whenever Jake got full of gin, He was looking for a fight.
One night he run, against a knife, In the hands of old Bob Kline,
And over Jake, we had a wake, In the days of 49.

There was North Carolina Jess, a hard old case, Who never would repent.
Jess was never known to miss a meal, Or ever pay a cent.
But poor old Jess, like all the rest, To death did at last resign,
And in his bloom, he went up the flume, In the days of 49.

There was Rackensack Jim who could out roar, A buffalo bull you bet,
He roared all night, he roared all day, He may be roaring yet.
One night he fell in a prospect hole, Twas a roaring bad design,
And in that hole, Jim roared out his soul, In the days of 49.

Of all the comrades I had then, Theres none left now but me,
And the only thing Im fitting for, Is a Senator to be,
The people cry as I pass by, There goes a traveling sign,
Thats old Tom Moore, a bummer sure, Of the days of 49.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:22 - ID#420428)
To ANOTHER: Gold as currency
Yes, GOLD is the time-honoured currency. Pure, inert, heavy, lustrous, scarce. Culturally honoured: golden locks, Olympic gold, golden sunsets, pure gold, golden pen-nibs, gold watches, gold rings, gold standard. It has been the underlying foundation of transportable quality for time immemoriam. Let not the currency barons talk us out of its intrinsic value. Hence, IV, myself.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:26 - ID#345268)
@ Another

Could you please tell us Sir,

1. if the US will confiscate gold coins and bullion some day

2. how will the $US fare against a partially gold backed EURO?

Your opinions are greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:30 - ID#173274)
@the scene
ANOTHER -- Re: your 23:12; A dream; yes. Still A dream for many or some of us ; yes. Blood, sweat, and tears due; yes. Now, from your 23:31, why did we go off the gold standard rather than revalue the 'almighty buck'. I might actually spend some time answering that but first, I'd like to hear your response to why we have a debt-based monetary system.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:32 - ID#287358)


your first question is ludicrous....ask your dog or cat, or the resident rat.....geeezzeeeeeee.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:34 - ID#420428)
2BOR2B: Days o 49
My name in Ozymandias, king of kings; look on my works ye mighty and despair.
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:34 - ID#420428)
2BOR2B: Days o 49
My name in Ozymandias, king of kings; look on my works ye mighty and despair.
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:35 - ID#60253)

Date: Thu Mar 26 1998 00:14

Interesting Times ( reserve currency shift ( ANOTHER ) ) ID#423355:

"currency nuclear war"?

Sir, If one closely follows in the footsteps of giants ( not the book ) , he will also be preparing for a currency war! Time passes, thoughts change, people consider and value is perceived differently. Persons say, the seasons are all the same, but we know the weather is never the same. A storm approaches YOUR SHORES from across the pacific!

Mr. Lurker 777,

You have much leverage with gold, yes? Your tomorrow, it does not come soon enough? Even some countries are as such! Gold will find a new range, if the CBs say so.

They say so!

I must be gone for a time.

Thank You, very much

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:36 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Brother John,

In regard to your conversation with Swiss guy:

My understanding is that all MAJOR countries inside
the EURO ring will hold their own gold until it
is absolutely clear that new currency is a hot
shot. I believe you are looking at least for
5-7 years of strong and practically untouched
national gold holdings. Europians are not stupid,
generally more intelligent and they have rich HISTORY,
as you know, and I feel you know this much better than
most people posting on Kitco site. So, we are looking
at EURO-designated gold reserves+national gold reserves.
Opposite to thepoint of view expressed by some guys at
Kitco, I believe that debut of the EURO is planned
to be very strong, by SPECIFICALLY indentifing EURO
as a currency backed by gold holdings - it is to be
expected from the amalgamation of so different countries,
if leaders of this countries want to look good and SERIOUS.
Then, Euro will probably weaken a bit. US$ is gonna be
a casulty, US$ can beat D-mark, Pound, Lira separately,
but not EURO, bright and shiny...

And of course, US$ will not be used as major part of backing
for EURO, it;s like backing US$ with D-mark - practically
possible and politically incorrect. Politics in Europe
is one of the biggest priorities, you know...

I believe that English are buying gold at this time, so
if it so, it's a proof. Swiss plans for 25% in gold for
their frank is even better proof...

Your brother Oris - expert in European affairs.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:38 - ID#20137)
Elligible silver drops again. Gold paper trades while actual bullion remains frozen.
Volumes are in contracts NOT ounces.

From "Closing N.Y. Metals Comments: Part 2" and "Closing N.Y. Precious Metal Futures: Lower Across the Board" FutureSource.

"Sources said possible fund short covering took place
earlier today, which may have helped take prices off session
Volume in gold was estimated at 65,000 contracts
traded, according to the COMEX."

"Technically, April gold futures meet resistance at
$305, then see major resistance at $319. Support is found
underneath the market at $299 and $297, with further support
found at $292.
May silver hits resistance at $6.40. Support is put at
$6.15 and again at $6 as the major support level.
April platinum meets resistance at $425 and $435.
Support is found at $405, today's session low.
June palladium futures see support at $248. Resistance
is met at the contract high of $281.35."


Gold 65,000
Silver 13,000
H.G. Copper 10,000

warehouse stocks:
GOLD ( Quoted in Troy Ounce )

321,832 0 0 0 0 321,832
245,742 0 0 0 0 245,742
567,574 0 0 0 0 567,574


0 15,061 39,812,823
351,759 -15,061 49,456,459
351,759 0 89,269,282

The gold contracts continue to trade hot and fast, but the bullion moves NOT. Arden can you shed some historic light on this?

PH in LA
(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:40 - ID#225408)
ANOTHER's question

I, too, would like to hear ANOTHER's answer to his question, even as I would like to hear yours. One obvious one would surely be that the USA abolished the gold standard to pave the way for massive inflation of the US dollar. Were there other more obscure "real" reasons?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:42 - ID#345268)
@ Cherokee

Cherokkee, it is not ludicrous to ask for the opinion of a respected individual. ANOTHER can offer his opinion as he has in many other issues.

John Disney__A
(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:45 - ID#24135)
Watch your back .. this guy STEALS
For All ..
Bernatz is hep-rat. He stole the moniker.. He probably
stole his one time gold call too.. maybe from his mother.
Ignore him .. he's a sick puppy.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:45 - ID#266105)

Ozzy, like that one. Pretty fast crowd, that Shelley bunch.
Barbarian's at the gate, too, would'a been some kinda solution.
Or Leda/Swan, things fly apart. Off topic, back to biz, y'know.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:46 - ID#20137)
Oh, I forgot to mention that you can buy all of comex's eligible gold tonight for ...
$73,550,580.60 ( $299.30 per ounce ) .

May be your last chance. Just think how much fun it will be to get all the press you will get for closing out comex. Better move fast because there are a lot more contracts for bullion than they have available.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:47 - ID#225273)
Glad to meet you. I'm the Preacher. Come see us.

Good-night ANOTHER. Good-night everybody else.

Interesting Times
(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:51 - ID#423355)
dollar / yen
Yen is at 128.68... and still dropping...


(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:52 - ID#254110)
Spot Prices
When will the Kitco Spot price graphs for gold and silver be updated? I've been away for some time and I need the data for March 17th - 20th.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 00:55 - ID#254110)
I guess everyone at kitco is tucked into their beds. I ask again tomarrow. Night all!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:01 - ID#20137)
Sorry to repeat if this has been posted before...
Wednesday March 25, 9:27 pm Eastern Time

FOCUS-Yen up on intervention talk, gains seen few

By Svea Herbst-Bayliss

Credit Market Overview -- New York, March, 16 1998

Liquiditys Surge Could Help To Sustain Profitability
M3s Acceleration Might Yet Send Interest Rates Higher
Growth of M3 Portends Faster Nominal GDP Growth
US Private-Sector Debt Grows More Quickly
Unit Labor Costs Growth May Have Bottomed

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:01 - ID#420428)
BROB2 Shelley
...was not half as fast as Byron. Bt God that man could lead a pace! But, as you say, off topic and back to work. What is work, at this time of the night? Suggestion: inexorable proof that currencies cannot be printed forever without foundational support. That seems to be what this group is about. Responsibility. Though who would be vain enough to claim it?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:02 - ID#173274)
@the scene
PH in LA -- Much depends on relative perspectives. However, one perspective goes WAY back. At this time, inasmuch that has been said by ANOTHER, I haven't particularly been able to pick out too much more than the typical supply and demand, and then profitting by those in control; those not neccessarily in the M.E. Desert/camel/tent life doesn't seem to bother them to any great extent. Not sure what does except for trespass. You also have to admit that most of those 'kingdoms' were founded/supported by the west for our own presumed benefit. Guardianships, no less. Something to lend 'credence'. But beyond that, there is still something even more fundamental. Much of it IS based on real value; something that the west has forgotten. Forgotten at least in lip service. Thus my question to ANOTHER.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:07 - ID#215379)
Storm approaching from Pacific ?
I believe that today was but just a breeze of things to come when THEY start really selling US paper and buying Gold. Let the storm begin...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:09 - ID#266105)

Hendrix? ; )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:15 - ID#420428)
BROB2 Hendrix?
You equate responsibility with an early death? Yes, that does have a ring of truth...the good die young. Enough of adages, time to sleep.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:16 - ID#431263)
Watch BC Suck Off Mandela AND BLACK GOLD MINERS!
Now that BC is in S.Africa salivating over Nelson Mandela, watch for a sudden new found love of black gold miners and the precious yellow which provides them with the highest standard of living in Africa!


(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:18 - ID#340302)

March 26, 1998

Market Place: Buffett Likes Silver; Soros, a Silver


Long before Warren Buffett made his well-publicized bet on silver, George Soros bought a big stake in a silver mine.

And if Buffett is right -- if silver prices rise sharply because of an impending shortage -- Soros could be the big winner. That is if his mine can begin producing in time to profit from the rally.

The investment by Soros, a longtime hedge fund operator known for taking enormous risks with commensurate payoffs, shows just how much value some of the world's prominent money managers see in silver. It also serves as a reminder that hedge funds can be found in virtually every financial market and are, at times, as interested in long-term bets as they are in short-term twists and turns.

Along with his brother, Paul, Soros controls nearly 20 percent of Apex Silver Mines, which explores for silver and develops mines. The company, based in the Cayman Islands, has an open pit mine in Bolivia that it says "may constitute one of the largest known silver deposits in the world." Soros, through Quantum Industrial Partners, initially invested in Apex at the end of 1994.

And he's not the only big fish. Another investor is Louis Bacon, chief executive of Moore Capital Management and another successful -- if lesser known -- hedge fund operator. Bacon holds about 6.9 percent of Apex, a stake he acquired in 1996.

Apex has been buying properties since 1993 and now has 27 nonproducing silver properties in South America, Central America and Central Asia. But its focus is the San Cristobal mine in Bolivia, a mine expected to begin producing silver in 2001.

In its prospectus for an initial public offering of stock on the American Stock Exchange in November, Apex outlined the same case for silver as Buffett did recently when disclosing that his company, Berkshire Hathaway, had bought 129.7 million ounces since July. Apex said it had bought mining properties because of its belief "that silver supply and demand fundamentals were stronger than the then-prevailing price of silver suggested."

Thomas Kaplan, chairman and chief executive of Apex, said in a recent interview that the company expects production costs to be especially low at San Cristobal -- $2.63 an ounce -- and that should "enable us to become the premier play in silver." If costs prove that low and if the mine proves bountiful, the company could remain attractive not just at existing silver prices, but even at sharply lower ones.

For investors, a mining company can provide a way to leverage a bet on a precious metal. Once production costs are covered, the rest of the sales price goes pretty much to the bottom line.

If the metal's price rises, the mining company's earnings will rise by a greater amount than the price of the metal itself. Therefore, the price of the stock should get a bigger pop than the metal. ( Of course, a drop in the metal's price can have a bigger downward impact on the company, too. )

Despite the prospects for San Cristobal, and the other properties that Apex owns, the stock has not done all that well since its debut in November at $11 a share. It hit an intraday high of $14.125 on Feb. 6, three days after Buffett disclosed his investment in silver and helped push silver's price to a 9 1/2-year high. Apex's stock has since slipped, with the metal. It dipped below $11 a share at the end of February and closed Wednesday unchanged at $11.50.

Stanley Shopkorn, the managing director for equities at Moore Capital, suggested the stock is languishing because so much of it -- about 80 percent -- is held by officers, directors, Soros and Bacon, leaving little for other investors. "A small public float is holding the stock back," he said.

The prospectus also notes that this group's control of Apex "may have a significant effect in delaying, deferring or preventing a change in control of the company or other events which could be of benefit to the company's other shareholders."

Furthermore, production and any accompanying profits from San Cristobal are still years away. Apex is expected to post a loss of about 70 cents a share for 1997.

Shopkorn said that by 2001, when the mine is scheduled to come on line, the current inventory of silver should be largely depleted. The amount of excess silver above ground has been enough to fill the gap between new production and demand in recent years. It was the expected selloff of this inventory that made silver look attractive to Buffett. Unlike Apex, he already has a paper profit and could start taking that profit at any time.

Silver production has begun to increase in response to the eight-month market rally, and silver prices have fallen from their nine-and-a-half-year high of $7.28 an ounce on Feb. 5 to as low as $5.835 last week. Silver for April delivery closed Wednesday at $6.19 an ounce, down 14.5 cents.

The CPM Group, a precious metals research consultant that is financed by Apex and other silver producers, predicts that the gap between new production and demand will narrow sharply in the years ahead and that there could be a surplus by 2000.

So even though Jeffrey Christian of CPM predicts that silver will hit $10 an ounce in the near future, it should slip afterward. The question for investors in Apex is how much of the bubble in silver prices will they be able to capture.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:21 - ID#420428)
dirt: who are THEY?
Asians, presumably. But there will have to be a better game in town. Nothing succeeds like success. Who is more powerful and can give better guarantees than the US Govt? But everything is cyclical, as Gurdjieff and Ouspensky well knew. How long can Washington convincingly sell its debt? The Euro will be stiff competition. If PERCEPTION changes, the whole thing falls apart...the house of cards is intrinsically wobbly. Gold is not.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:23 - ID#345268)
@ Farfel

I see SSC soar, but why TVX? last week you were saying that RYO, ECO, and TVX will go under. Why the change in opinion about TVX?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:26 - ID#267298)

Oris, have you been reading my mind?

When you say "I believe that debut of the EURO is planned
to be very strong", you echo my thoughts exactly. I liken the
introduction of the EURO to the opening act of a play or the
first scene of a movie, if it is weak, what are the chances of
it ending on a strong note? Probably, little or none. On the
other hand, a strong opening, although not ensuring success,
certainly enhances the chance of it. The EURO has to "compete"
with the US$. Therefore, to gain an advantage, it has to offer
something that the US$ does not offer. What is the most obvious?
A backing in something more substantial than simply a Goverments
promise to repay. Backing a currency with any amount of GOLD
is in my opinion, better than backing a currency with nothing more
than promises which may never be fullfilled. Therefore, I believe
that the EURO, when introduced, may be backed by GOLD to
a much greater degree than many now think likely.

John Disney__A
(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:27 - ID#24135)
Gold Reserves
For Oris and anybody who is interested..
OK .. lets try to quantify and talk in numbers
Of the roughly 12000 tons held by Euorpean countries
4000 Tons is destined for the European Big Euro Bank
( true so far ?? ) . They got this gold from the member
countries .. ( but the countries did NOT SELL it .. It
is still earmarked as THEIR GOLD ... True ??? Im only
guessing )
So that leaves 8000 tons left where their used to
12000 ... Maybe some countries are feeling a little
naked ???
So England is buying gold from CB?? after Eddie
George said Gold was for knot-heads?? So england
doesnt have enough gold to join euro and still have
any left ?? ( true??? )
All these mechanics IGNORE my point brother ORIS that gold
backing is really to lend CREDENCE to an otherwise
valueless pile of PAPER. It is not used used and has not
been use used to SUPPORT a currency since the 1920s if then ( please argue and tell me Im wrong ) . IT was only used to settle trade imbalances until
about the late 1960s ( am I mistaken ?? ) .
I think euro MUST hold $ and Yen... to mechanically support
currency ... ie if euro weakens .. sell$ buy euro or
same with yen. One doesnt do this with GOLD .. too
unwieldy and too small a relative market.
I digress ..
Reserves have at least 3 functions
1. lend credence to currency .. Gold is BEST BEST.
2. use to support currency .. $/Yen are best.
3. use to import/pay debt in time of NATIONAL
Crisis. Gold best.but $ and Yen OK even some
Euro. ... And key is at NATIONAL level.
So I dont agree on 7/8 year time frame. Sure dmarks
etc go away. But Germany for example will want to hold
SOMETHING as National reserve for 3 above. and probably
NOT $ or yen ... but Gold mainly.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:31 - ID#345268)
@ DBog and Oris

Some cloud their vews of the EURO with patriotism towards the dollar. Hard for Americans to accept another NEW competing currency.

I agree with you gentlemen, the dollar will be under pressure if some gold is backing the EURO.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:36 - ID#340302)
...and they took an extremely bullish position a few weeks ago. Moreover, they are the third largest producer of silver in the continent.

I am not in love with their management. However, they seem to have some new consultants who are providing them much better advice.

Yes, there is hope for the evolution of the species.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:38 - ID#224149)
And the lord said
Farfel I think Heavens gate is about to open ----Youre saved

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:39 - ID#173274)
@the scene
PH in LA -- When I say 'profitting' in my previous posting, let me also add, keeping their paper game intact to the point that all is in hand. The machinations involved to accomplish that are extreme. Debt-based currency systems are no more than a confidence game, but even more than that, they are a freedom robbing game. They slave you and your children, and their children, to the burden of ever increasing debt payment. Debt that they did not 'endorse', but were born to.

Is oil 'priced' correctly against the dollar? Who the hell can know if the marketplace can't do it and given that the dollar value is a confidence game. What's left except for other physical commodities to base it against? Do other 'powers' 'judge' it to be otherwise valued than what the current marketplace judges it in regards to the dollar value? If the dollar value is the current end-all to the 'valuation' of oil, and that is based on a pseudo 'confidence', then what IS the real value of oil in dollars. And if that fail for oil, how about for everything else! Coould it be that the current debt-based confidence scam turns upon itself? NAHHHHH!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:41 - ID#340302)
Echo Bay still looks pretty does not seem to have a clue.

Royal Oak...looks like they are getting a lifesaver...but at what price??? How much share dilution will result??


(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:42 - ID#267298)
Gold Backing
Myrmidon, with all due respect

"The dollar will be under pressure if some GOLD is backing
the EURO". I cannot see the EURO possibly competing
with the US$ WITHOUT some backing to GOLD, and I say
again, I think this backing when announced, will be greater
than most presently imagine. We will soon know, probably
by July of this year.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:49 - ID#345268)
@ DBog and Farfel
DBog, I agree entirely with you. We are saying the same thing. Good gold backing of Euro and the dollar will be under pressure.

Farfel, TVX was weak today. I am not buying anymore RYO, ECO or TVX. I had enough of them. Bought some NGC ( No-Good-C********* ) and hope fore the best. Thanks for the analysis. Since some on this forum are buying food I am thinking of loading more on ADM !!!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:51 - ID#257148)


(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:53 - ID#401460)

AG ? Think of how AG speaks.

Good Night All


(Thu Mar 26 1998 01:58 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Brother, some countries indeed feel a little naked,
and some countries have too much, they think, and they
do not want to "waste". So, what we see ( actually, the
funny thing is that we do not see, that's why all this
Rothchild stuff, oil, Nazis, PPT and etc. surfaced ) ,
is a plain simple redistribution of gold reserves, mainly
in Europe,but it touches some other parts of the world.

England??? Tell me about it. Number one masters of politics
and stuff...They'll tell you whatever they feel is O.K. for
THEM..AND FOR YOU to hear, but at the same time I like
England, just don't trust them.. Those guys got traditions
and still follow them...

I think that German and French population would not be
happy with EURO and EURO CREATORS ( ! ) unless it's "bright and
shiny". I do not have enough knowledge on the mechanism of
currency backing, but I smell rank-n-file play: EURO, stuff,
etc. not just promise of politicians, but gold is in there
- you follow me...kind of beer for rednecks, sorry...

But, but, but - US is unhappy, AG says he welcomes EURO,
but what else can he say? US$ will loose a little bit of
world influence for sure if the whole EMU is operational
as planned.

Honestly, I'm not ready to operate with the numbers, give
me some time to learn more...

Hitting the pillow, good night, brother.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 02:02 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Bart -- 2 A:M in the morning and finding it to be extremely difficult to post of refresh. This simply cannot be caused by too many users at this hour. ISP problems? Just to let you know.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 02:04 - ID#238422)
Thanks, I think this scenario looks logical. Let's see...
I think we will have some realistic estimates next month.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 02:08 - ID#402131)

I would sure like a place to view all these posts together as I am about as dumb as a 100 head of sheep. For sheat its worth I think Another may be for real

(Thu Mar 26 1998 02:15 - ID#238422)
John Disney
John, I read your post again, then I read my post again,
and I realized that I actually repeated your words about
CREDIBILITY of the currency.

I guess we do have an agreeement on the subject of beer
for rednecks...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 02:15 - ID#257148)
------lacrimae mundi------- :-(


Once more I am grateful to you for assisting my understanding of not just america, but of the mysteries of life itself. You said:

" Debt-based currency systems are no more than a confidence game, but even more than that, they are a freedom robbing game. They slave you and your children, and their children, to the burden of ever increasing debt payment. Debt that they did not 'endorse', but were born to. "

I have been grieving for america. I wept when i saw the tv news ( after having heard of it first here ) about two pubescent boys in camauflage gear and automatic weapons, flush a chatter of pubescent girls out of a school hall by a false fire alarm, into a shooting gallery. I weep still.

My thoughts are that every american adult is responsible for this. Are you not tied together by geography and time? Are you not bound by blood, and kinship and friendship to one another? I have been grieving for america. Without your children you are nothing. For how long have you let this situation continue? How have you let this come to pass? Children killing children? Like the movies? like the video games?

Have you been too long digging your foxholes loading up your automatic weapons, counting your gold and waiting for your neighbours to come over the hill for help? Neighbours, one time friends even relations whose only crime is to be unprepared and hungy? Are you really waiting for your neighbours, to shoot them before they shoot you? Cos what you have done, lacrimae mundi, is to pass to your children the burden, the debt, the karma of your forebears.

As Eldo said:-- these pubescent boys with dreams of rambo and terminator and snuff videogames who murdered pubescent girls wrapped in auras of barbiedolls and romance and horses --- all of them, these children, are the inheritors of their forefathers debts, therefore they are born to economic slavery.

What would you do if you were born a slave?

The land of the free? :- (



:- (



:- (

(Thu Mar 26 1998 02:25 - ID#238422)
John Disney
One more thing - did you ever pay attention that
CB's were not really upset about drop in POG, as
it seems... CB's actually "lost" a lot of money,
as it seems. Ask yourself a question - why CB's
did not try to protect value of their reserves?

May be because they know that it is ( was ) only
temporary "loss" during the period of redistribution?
What do you think?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 03:26 - ID#393224)
Your 02:15.

"Live by the sword, die by the sword."


"Blessed are the children."

(Thu Mar 26 1998 04:02 - ID#340344)
Brothers... Beer for rednecks?
Seems like a lop-sided trade.... Heh

(Thu Mar 26 1998 05:22 - ID#228283)

Still recovering from jet lag...@BRO.your info on Hyundai is invaluable. Just returned from Belize and found the Japanese auto selling for 20% less than U.S. market equivalent. The DUMPING may start soon.

Auratious...YOU are SEVERE in the very best sense of the word. Ifinally caught up on a weeks' worth of posts and yours to me was the most profound awareness statement I've experienced... thank you.

It is extremely difficult, in my country, to get anyone involved in GOLD or governmental change. The masses are force fed a continual stream of pap and eat it up with a big spoon. They doubt the government, agree with what you're saying, nod their head, and simply walk away.

I believe it will take a MAJOR EVENT to really shake things up and make them aware of the situation. People are much too complacent...and....."Scarlet; don't give a damn."

Meantime I will continue to beat my head against the wall. GO GOLD !!!

Goodnight from the chilly Midwest.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 05:26 - ID#398105)
oris and John Disney...........

Is it possible that the EURO backed by 30% GOLD may leave the US$ for dead, and avoid currency speculation......

Perception, perception.......time will indeed tell........

Och Aye the Noooooooooooo !!!!!!!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 05:28 - ID#224149)
Using Solar Fire Ephemeris Generator 2.
Mike Sheller Using Heliocentric Charts for analysis at this point seems more correct for commodities especially Gold but then now I have to back test all variables as not one planet alone can create a substantial influence. A combination of planet aspects must be realized in any analysis .The key period for this test will be the future date April 21  May 1 which I suspect will be very positive for Gold. ( April 3  20 has many conflicting aspects which is very difficult to analyze ) Away for a good morning rest.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 05:40 - ID#358318)
Rack, Another's posts all together
The last update of Another's collected posts is readable from:
The collection includes up to Sat Mar 21 1998 16:07, but with several more recent posts I would look out for coming soon...
I forgot who compiles these posts but thanks anyway.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 05:44 - ID#398105)
Rack (Another)...........

A wee bit of a read.........

(Thu Mar 26 1998 06:21 - ID#238295)
open interest
Kaplan reports that gold open interest plunged again on Tuesday. He argues this is bearish since there are fewer shorts to squeeze. But I say this probably is bullish since the implicit assumption that the shorts are the dumb money is almost certainly wrong.

Anyway April gold up 60 cents to exactly $300 a little while ago. Looks like an interesting day. We will soon see who is right about the meaning of falling short interest.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 06:32 - ID#26793)
China issues new rules on stock ownership

(Thu Mar 26 1998 06:36 - ID#26793)
CNBC reported a large loss by Peugeot in trading derivatives but I can't find it on the web.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 06:37 - ID#26793)
Saudis forced to cut back on oilfield improvements due to low prices.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 06:44 - ID#26793)
Asian distributors/dealers cancelling up to 10,000 Jeep orders.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 06:47 - ID#26793)
Incredibly flat yield curve narrows further leaving analysts perplexed.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 06:50 - ID#26793)
Indonesia jobless number jumps; migrants riot in Malaysia

(Thu Mar 26 1998 06:53 - ID#26793)
Indonesia says it needs a 4 year debt payment moratorium

(Thu Mar 26 1998 06:56 - ID#26793)
Japan sets bad loan figure at 77 trillion yen

(Thu Mar 26 1998 06:57 - ID#185448)
If there is confidence in the EURO to be strong - as I expect it to be - there will be an avalanche of european money being repatriated. Means the liver, one foot and parts of the NYSE-bull were paid with private investors money from over here in order to save ones bucks in case the EURO is nothing but a f+++ in the wind. Time will tell. Soon.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 06:58 - ID#358318)
Peugeot loses 1.44 billion francs in derivatives?
Peugeot's 1.44 billion franc provision to unwind a sterling hedging position:

(Thu Mar 26 1998 06:58 - ID#26793)
Brazil registers two back to back months of deflation.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 07:06 - ID#26793)
Dresdner Bank hints it may be having a problem.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 07:11 - ID#26793)
Thank you very much. They kind of buried it deep in the story didn't they.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 07:11 - ID#330175)
April Gold up .60 @ 3-0-0
Mornin from sunny Cape Breton~~~~~~~

JOE Smith
(Thu Mar 26 1998 07:13 - ID#24869)
some xxxxx rated beauties
can you guess how much thet went

you may need to cut and paste

or e-mail

(Thu Mar 26 1998 07:18 - ID#341189)
Fed's yield curve box
Donald, Your post on the yield curve shows again the box the Fed is in. Kind of like a brittle diabetic. Too much credit and things go to hell, too little and we risk recession and the world economy goes to hell. I've posted this before, I think, but it shows the probabilites they're working with.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 07:21 - ID#289357)
ECM - a web site from Ian Powell

Here's a personal web site that Ian Powell put together on ECM, the company in Western Australia that ( with LEG ) has a terrific find of Silver and PGMs:

(Thu Mar 26 1998 07:22 - ID#289357)
ECM - a web site from Ian Powell

Here's a personal web site that Ian Powell put together on ECM, the company in Western Australia that ( with LEG ) has a terrific find of Silver and PGMs:

(Thu Mar 26 1998 07:24 - ID#289357)
ECM site from Ian Powell - trying again

(Thu Mar 26 1998 07:53 - ID#287358)
Allen Usa/Beligum Sale?

I posted this last night but I think it's worth doing again.

Hear is info that central banks had bought the gold holdings sold by Beligium. Report states that the purchase is a positive for gold.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 07:55 - ID#330175)
Royal Oak..................

(Thu Mar 26 1998 07:57 - ID#330175)
Peggy Witte..............of Royal Oak

(Thu Mar 26 1998 08:11 - ID#330175)
S&P futures down 6.10

(Thu Mar 26 1998 08:14 - ID#237149)
More european CB gold sale announcements to come...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 08:21 - ID#26793)
Yen traders fear Japan will finally intervene

(Thu Mar 26 1998 08:23 - ID#26793)
Maybe the Globex traders watch Kitco. The S&P was flat when I made that yield curve post. Now it is down 5 or 6.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 08:23 - ID#222231)
Do you have a similar chart predicting inflation 4 qrt's ahead for greater spreads?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 08:33 - ID#410194)
Gold and Silver news
Looking at the last days action of Gold, it does look like it is longing to creep higher. The psychologically important $300 is a very important area to watch, especially if Gold could remain above for a few days in a
row which would give the bulls a solid support to consider.

Since the March low of 290, open interest declined sharply on the recovery and it is not a good sign unless the hedgers are lifting protection.

It would appear by the news yesterday that many of the first waves of the EU states will generally hold Gold reserves of around 3% to 6% which makes the 30% mentioned by Italy questionnable. One has to assume that any requirement ( there might not be a requirement ) would not deviate from the members existing position especially since they all seem to lower those holdgins anyway.

Deliveries fell to only 39 deliveries yesterday. The uphill battle continues and it looks as if the Comex warehouse stocks will play an even bigger role in Silver's action in the weeks ahead.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 08:36 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Aurator -- Don't drink the water. I think it must be something they put in it that make people go nuts. That and all the crap they spew on TV. Even most churches anymore are simply social engineering their parisioners. Haven't kids been told over and over again that they are smarter than their parents and grandparents? What else can parents automatically expect of their kids growing up in the current latchkey environments, mot that many parents anymore wouldn't allow them to do much of what they do anyway. If there is anything particularly true of this country, it is that everything is upside down and inside out. Black is white and white is black and debt is money.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 08:41 - ID#26793)
Bubble Theory: State of Denial on Wall Street

(Thu Mar 26 1998 08:47 - ID#26793)
The Moral Vacuum and Mutual Funds

(Thu Mar 26 1998 08:48 - ID#341189)
Pete, yield curve and inflation
No, I don't have such a chart. There's been a lot of scholarly work on the yield curve in the last few years though. The Cleveland Fed site is one place to look.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:02 - ID#25171)
Heard on CNBC this morning "We might see some kind of correction to day but the DOW will eventually break the 9000 mark"
We could make some money sueing these guys.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:05 - ID#26793)
Stocks in London having a problem today

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:16 - ID#246224)
Saw that and Thanks. Does look promising. The news is being spun into a buy signal. All last year's sales were mostly picked up by CB's also, just not reported as such. I'm long physical gold and loving the thought of seeing the shorts burn big time. They have put us through the ringer. Time for payback!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:16 - ID#26793)
First ripple of the tsunami?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:26 - ID#212197)
Y2K: Telecommunication (Allen, Prometheus)
I had too many beers yesterday evening and probably I talked too much. But let me summarize the assessment for the probability for Public Switched Networks ( PSNs ) to come over the Y2K hurdle:

The PSNs worldwide cannot be tested. Period.
Therefore, chances that your telephone will work after midnight, on January 1, 2000, are close to zero.

Only lab tests are possible for model transmissions. But the networks which are in production will remain untested. Even these lab tests havn't been executed up until this point by most ( all? ) of the service providers.

I found Allen's probability calculation from last week extremely realistic.
Prometheus: Thank you for your humorous post from yesterday evening. Yes, we share this dirty secret. But I think we are obliged to try to communicate it to others as long as the internet is still intact, so everybody can prepare for the worst case scenarios.

Alberich the Dwarf

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:28 - ID#341189)
Donald, Your post on 4th Q. Are we just ignorant or what? The price being paid for earnings in the stock market seems astonomical and it was apparent since Dec it was going higher due to threatened earnings, as posted here. Yet up, up and away for all indices. I continue to have that "out of touch" feeling, like everyone knows what's going on except a few of us here. I think "I need a little help from my friends".

Spud Master
(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:29 - ID#273112)
@aurator & his childish prattling
aurator wrote early his morning:

"I have been grieving for america. I wept when i saw the tv news ( after having heard of it first here ) about two pubescent boys in camauflage gear and automatic weapons, flush a chatter of pubescent girls out of a school hall by a false fire alarm, into a shooting gallery. I weep still.

My thoughts are that every american adult is responsible for this"

What woolly-minded, emotionaly-driven clap-trap, Aurator!

Point #1: The two boys are responsible for their murderous acts.

Point #2: The parents of the two children are next in line for responsiblity.

Point #3: The liberal press/media/Hollywood are the *REAL* villians
for dispensing the moral rot, moral ambiguity and for denegrating
Judeo-Christian values ( no offense intended to our Islamic or Buddist or Hindu readers intended ) .

Did this kind of crap happen pre-60's? pre-Dr. Spock? pre-Multiculturism? pre-Politically Correctness? Not no, but Hell no.

How about all you bloody politicians, psychologists, agnostics, atheists, moral-ambigutiy types all standing up and taking a bow for the destruction of the American ethic, morals and creed. You hypocrites.

You hypocrites.

And while we are lamenting this horrible set of murders in Arkansas, let us pause to think of the dozens of children gunned-down by street gangs in our, big, happy, liberal, happy inner-cities that same Spring day,

in Boston,
in New York,
in Washington D.C.
in Dallas
in Los Angles
in Seattle
in Chicago...

Are you only concerned about white children in Arkansas being gunned down? Perhaps poor, black inner city children being gunned down in ones and twos just isn't "news"?

Get your head out of your emotinal ass, Aurator.

NICE CONDITIONING, ISN'T IT? BUT DO YOU SAY: "Yea, verily, Hollywood & TV are culpable". Of course not. We are all hypocrites. Besides, Hollywood makes MONEY. Hollywood and TV INFLUENCE opinion so we may control the dumb masses.

One more thing - this is just the begining: The last fifty years of liberal sowing have left a big whirlwind of violence to yet be harvested.

Damn you, and damn every other "kind-hearted", "emotionally-sensitive" liberal who couldn't tow the line of responsibility and ethics because it cut into your "fun" of drugs, libertine behaviour and exculpation for you failure to behave.

You are the same jerks who will flee the cities in droves as this mess gets worse, seeking safe havens in your walled-housing editions and exurbs.

Once again, just in case you missed my point, in my best Charlton Heston voice: damn you for all your well-intentioned acts.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:30 - ID#288155)
JTF--re: RD--

Checked back files and it was he that wrote the loooong letter
to the FT dissing Duisenberger and [by implication] lauding
Trichets abilities to work congenially with the world constituency.
Trichet is G30. One wonders....As far as policy goes, it would be difficult to separate the two men; this, then, must be a part of the larger power-positioning battle now on-going.

Thnx again for W95 input.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:34 - ID#288155)
Carl--the market
a living enactment of "The Emperor's New Clothes" ?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:34 - ID#26793)
Japan to buy 1 trillion yen worth of stock Mon. and Tues. with Postal Savings

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:35 - ID#287358)


it was the question itself, not the act of questioning.....
re-read the question.....

'will the us ever again, confiscate gold coins or bullion?'

NOBODY can accurately answer that question, only speculate......
are you looking for speculation?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:38 - ID#31868)
Before I say anything, I have to know what kind of coffee you are drinking, obviously mine is weak by any stretch of the imagination.

Bully Beef
(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:45 - ID#259282)
london was going to hell in a hand basket this morning
Down a hundred? Thats the biggest move I can remember seeing.But I haven't followed it that much.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:50 - ID#239438)
Take em out back and hang em
Re Spud commentary on those two murderous kids,

I truly and very seriously agree with you. The

kids should be put to work crushing rocks for the

next 20 years, the parents should go to jail,

guns should be liberalized not restricted

further. I know it sounds silly, but if the girls those

kids shot had been carrying Uzis or even 45

autos, the punks would have had second

thoughts. Where were our glorious liberal society,

our highly paid school administrators, even our police

( the only ones worthy of carrying firearms and deciding who else gets to carry them ) when the victims really needed them?

As you might guess, my conservative leanings

lie somewhere to the right of Attilla the Hun ( the

guy had style ) . Go Platinum! Keep those hydrogen cells


(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:51 - ID#287358)


excellent.....the crap spewed from the degenerate ( ellen degenerate )
tv-for-lunch-bunch has engendered an entire generation with a legacy
of violence with which there is no moral association..

death and violence are as incidentals...propagated in lieu of profit,
at the expense of all of the carbo-earth-anouts....

to be added to the list of lawyers, and politicians......
the hollywood-liberal-for-lunch-bunch.....they spew poison from
behind their gilded shall reap what you sow....
and a bitter harvest awaits their combines.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:51 - ID#213265)
@the scene
I vote for Spud! Can't make that message any clearer than that.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:55 - ID#348286)

(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:56 - ID#411259)
..... Just how OLD is that GOLD? .....

Old Gold wrote:

"Kaplan reports that gold open interest plunged again on Tuesday. He argues this is bearish since there are fewer shorts to squeeze. But I say this probably is bullish since the implicit assumption that the shorts are the dumb money is almost certainly wrong."

I'm writing:

Not a wise assumption to make, since the short side of gold has been the ONLY profitable side to be on for the last 2 years. If bigger profits equals dumb money, I am a blathering idiot. Some here hold that opinion of me in any case.

All -

Like the rest, I need to see a close above 6.40 to gain a little confidence in silver. Can't sell the stuff here, Can't buy it, we're right in the middle. My gut tells me that the silver story will continue for months. Inventories will remain low, and silver will trade between $6 - $8 until production increases.

I'm selling any gold rally, looking for a drop to 285 but will be happy with 290.

It should be obvious to all here that PGMs will continue their boisterous ways. Palladium will top gold briefly, platinum will follow. The fundamentals for platinum are as critical as any market I have seen. There are NO aboveground stocks to fill any holes caused by an interruption in supplies. Platinum represents the best opportunity for trading profits and the best buy and hold of all the metals.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 09:57 - ID#348286)
@Y2K ---- YeeeeeHaaaaa .........
Bigger paychecks go to almost anyone who helps usher in `Y2K'

March 23, 1998
Mark Calvey Business Times Staff Writer

The stakes are high for companies racing to solve their so-called Year 2000 computer problem. So are the paychecks.

With talent short and the deadline looming, Bay Area employers are generously doling out pay and benefits to attract and retain employees needed to solve the problem.

Demand is highest for programmers, who can double their salaries to between $90,000 and $200,000, said Rick Beal of Watson Wyatt Worldwide in San Francisco. But it's not just programmers and project administrators who are raking in big bucks. In some cases, even those answering telephones in call centers are benefiting from company policies that have established higher pay levels for anyone associated with "Y2K."

Bank of America, for instance, has established an $80 million retention program for employees working on all aspects of the problem, said spokesman Bob Wynne. The bank realizes that not only does it need programmers to actually fix the problem, but it also needs people addressing the issue with the bank's employees, customers and vendors.

BofA and others in financial services are ahead of many companies when it comes to reprogramming computers to take care of the problem, which stretches back to the early days of computing. Trying to conserve then-precious computer memory, years were usually entered using only two digits. Many of these programs remain on large mainframe computers, so unless millions and millions of lines of computer code are individually fixed, on Jan. 1, 2000, these machines will assume 1/1/00 is the first day of 1900.

Banks were among the first to spot the problem when they started amortizing 30-year mortgages into the year 2000 and beyond. They are also the only business sector where federal regulators are ready to take over banks that fail because they're unable to resolve the Year 2000 issue. It's a point that the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. has made on several occasions.

The Year 2000 problem presents some unique difficulties in attracting high-tech employees. Fixing the problem involves a huge amount of work against an absolute drop-dead deadline. The nature of the work on old mainframe computers, often referred to as legacy systems, also doesn't appeal to tech employees who want to be working on the latest, hippest software.

"This particular problem has to do with older legacy software that's not sexy to work on," Beal said.

Some high-tech employees also are concerned about their employability after spending a year or two on Year 2000 projects.

"This is like looking in the rear-view mirror -- looking back and working on it," Beal said, noting that some companies are throwing in training and tuition to help prepare technology employees after the Year 2000 problem has been resolved.

To attract the high-tech talent, Beal said non-tech companies are not only increasing salaries by as much as double. They are also offering bonuses, boosting 401 ( k ) contributions and adding stock options to attract and retain key employees.

Despite the attractive pay scales, the financial incentives only go so far.

"It takes more than money. There has to be a strong vision," Dawn Lepore, chief information officer at Charles Schwab Corp., said at one of the company's recent job fairs to attract high-tech employees for a variety of projects.

Others echo her point.

"Money is the ticket to play. It doesn't make you a winner," said Beal, who is western region practice leader for strategic rewards at Watson Wyatt Worldwide, a consulting firm in San Francisco.

"A lot has to do with the corporate culture," he said. "Why would somebody want to work for you?"

Many companies say they want to keep their expanded tech departments even after January 2000 has come and gone. Most major financial institutions have plenty of projects to keep their seasoned tech staff busy in the next millennium with electronic banking, smart cards and a host of other technology projects coming down the pike.

BofA, for instance, says it plans to hold on to the 1,000 technology employees that it has working on Year 2000. Resolving the problem is the highest priority for the bank's technology department, so other projects are being delayed for the time being. That's also true elsewhere.

Said Beal at Watson Wyatt, "There's work piling up for many of these technology employees."

 1998, San Francisco Business Times

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:00 - ID#348286)
@GM: Y2K Bill is $500 Million !!!!! (This is just one company!!!!!)
In brief: General Motors to spend $500 million on Y2K

by Lisa Kelly

General Motors' Year 2000 costs are are on the road to hitting the $500 million mark.

New estimates of the cost of fixing the date change fiasco worldwide show that the manufacturing sector is as hard hit as financial services. But GM's main rivals in the car making sector, Chrysler and Ford Motor, are keeping their costs under the bonnet, claiming that the amounts arent expected to be material to future financial results.

However, all three auto makers are agressively driving ahead to update all software by the end of 1988, to give them an open stretch of testing before 1 January 2000.

 1998 VNU Business Publications Ltd

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:03 - ID#341189)

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:04 - ID#287358)
Allen Usa

Clone asked a question last night on the Beligum sale.. Date: Wed march 25, 1998 21:19. Would you care to comment. Thank You.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:07 - ID#26793)
There was a story in the local paper this morning that Travelers Insurance plans to spend $200,000,000 on Y2K fixes.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:07 - ID#348286)
@Y2K: "the year-2000 computer issue is one of the most serious imaginable threats to our society"
COVER STORY A danger that is 'worse than war'

Viewpoint by Margaret Banaghan

This is the first column in a year-2000 update series that will appear monthly in the Information Economy section of BRW.

According to Maurice Newman, the year-2000 computer issue is one of the most serious imaginable threats to our society - and he includes war among them. Newman is chairman of of all three of the Federal Government's year-2000 steering committee, the Australian Stock Exchange and Deutsche Morgan Grenfell. He has the task of galvanising government and business ( especially small and medium enterprises ) into action.

This will have to be one of the most ingenious marketing campaigns ever seen: selling a concept that, if executed properly, means that nothing will change. And all for a bargain price of about $10 million for a large organisation. To motivate people to buy this "resultless" concept would take the power of marketing specialists like Pepsi Co or even, dare it be said, Microsoft. Unfortunately, the funds allocated by governments for the year 2000 fade in comparison to the huge marketing budgets of these corporations.

The Federal Government recently appointed former Novell Australia chief Graeme Inchley as chief executive of the steering committee. This coincidentally was the same week that United States President Bill Clinton decided that not enough was being done - in the US or elsewhere - and established a year-2000 taskforce. These taskforces have the enormous challenge of trying to make the entry into 2000 as painless as possible.

Some thought that the $5 million put aside by the Australian Government for its taskforce did not reflect the significance of what is estimated to be at least a $5 billion national problem. However, the British Government, which was faster than most governments to acknowledge the issue, has so far contributed only UK pounds 1 million.

Inchley views the funding as "seed capital", which he expects will be boosted by the Government and the private sector once programs and services such as a community help line are set up.

Selling this concept was never going to be easy. Even people who should know better are still in denial. At the World Economic Forum annual talkfest at Davos, Switzerland, only 20 of the 2000 or so attending ( the world's movers and shakers ) bothered to go to the only session on the year 2000. It was presented by one of the world's foremost authorities on this issue, Canadian Peter De Jager.

Inchley says: "I feel like a religious preacher all of a sudden - the evangelist who has this message to get out, and half the world doesn't believe him." He says he has seen much evidence of how urgent the task is but must be careful about disclosing it because confidentiality agreements and public companies are involved. "People out there think, 'I've got this small problem and I can fix that', but millions of small problems lead into a big problem."

Inchley outlines the broad plan thus far: "At some stage, probably about mid-1999 we will switch from increasing awareness to saying, 'It's too late now and this is what we think will go wrong, so start planning for it'."

This is an extract of an article in Australia's Business Review Weekly magazine, 23 March 1998.

 1998 BRW Media - Your use of this site is governed by our Legal Notice

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:08 - ID#340459)
@Wise minds on this forum
Can anyone please explain how Options/Contracts to go long on XAU work
I do not know much about Strike/Call and things like that.
Your explanation will be greatly appreciated.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:11 - ID#288155)
House of Commons [Canada]
From Bretton Woods to Halifax and Beyond: Towards a 21st Summit for the 21st Century Challenge
Chapter Three: Reforming the Bretton Woods Institutional Frameworkwork: From Adaptation to Accountable "Reinvention"
3. Clarity of Mandates
...Moreover, as several witnesses pointed out, the IMF is in danger of being left behind by a burgeoning global private financial system. In 1970 the IMF introduced "Special Drawing Rights" ( SDRs ) with the aim of eventually replacing a less reliable U.S. dollar as the principal world reserve asset."

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:11 - ID#26793)
@Midas. There is a lot of info here on XAU

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:19 - ID#26793)
Chronology of recent Fed intervention

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:19 - ID#288155)
Notes on the margin--Krugman/Hanke
More awaits in this duel. Prof Krugman is publishing an article in Fortune magazine under the headline, "Rupiah's Rasputin".

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:20 - ID#348286)
@Y2K - Donald
Yes it's incredible, the amounts that are being now allocated.
However some companies still do not have a grasp of the enormity of the work to be done. When these people finally wake up to the problem, there will be no resources left open to do the work.
I will only work 10 hours a day no matter how much they pay, health is
no 1 priority.....

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:22 - ID#348286)
@Y2K - More Evidence - Black Hole
March 23, 1998, TechWeb News

The Mainframe's Black Hole -- The date- conversion problem is bringing work on many other important systems to a near standstill
By Martin J. Garvey

For some mainframe users, the year 2000 crisis is turning out to be a lot more than an annoying, expensive problem. It's also emerging as a developmental black hole, sucking up money and talent and leaving other, equally important mainframe work unfinished-even unstarted. "Year 2000 isn't as strategic as some other projects," says Chuck Foley, VP of server marketing for Amdahl Corp., "but it's the one that turns into a pumpkin if you don't fix it."

John Young, enterprise system analyst for the Clipper Group, an IT advisory firm in Wellesley, Mass., goes further:"Nothing will happen between now and 1999 that doesn't involve securing systems for the year 2000," he says. "Funds will be redirected from hardware updates and new software for the next two years to support year 2000 projects. Anyone who thinks otherwise is on a mistaken curve."

If Young is right, the impact could reach beyond the IS shop and hurt companies' earnings. That's because year 2000 work is essentially maintenance. While it serves the important role of keeping the big iron running, year 2000 work won't boost productivity, it won't create new business opportunities, it won't increase market share, and it won't find new business.

To be sure, not all mainframe systems and staff are focused solely on year 2000 conversions. For example, the Long Island Lighting Co. is too busy merging with Keyspan Energy-formerly Brooklyn Union Gas-and converting its customer-information system to dedicate all resources to the date-field fix. "Because of those projects, year 2000 can't dominate, but as it is, 10% of one mainframe is all that's being used for year 2000 testing," says Jim Langton, systems integration manager for Lilco, in Hicksville, N.Y. "The other projects consumed most of our manpower, so we were lean for year 2000."

Among the biggest year 2000 tasks facing mainframe shops are converting old applications, then testing those fixes. Simply testing Cobol applications requires extra resources and better-staffed second and third shifts in the data centers. Companies running 24 hours a day, seven days a week wonder when any integration testing can take place. When internal projects are complete, attention will turn to partners and distributors.

Merrill Lynch & Co., the investment firm in New York, now dedicates about one-quarter of its total mainframe systems capacity to year 2000 testing and development. Less critical projects, such as screen-format changes and decision-support systems, are being delayed. Mike Glodo, VP of enterprise central computing at Merrill Lynch, says that percentage will grow as the year 2000 draws closer. "It's one of the nasty projects with a hard deadline," he says.

That's probably a typical measure. Industry analysts estimate that anywhere from 10% to 25% of all mainframe resources are now dedicated to the year 2000 problem. Some companies haven't even begun testing, so those figures can only rise. Moreover, companies far along with the date-field conversion are bracing for the extra work brought on by the painstaking task of getting distributors and partners prepared for 2000. "Having our own systems compliant isn't enough," says Glodo.

The black hole is also evident to the systems vendor with the largest number of noncompliant systems out there:IBM. While the company's newest mainframes are year 2000-compliant, plenty of customers still run their businesses on IBM and compatible mainframes that are more than 20 years old-machines that are anything but ready for 2000. "The draining of mainframe resources is happening," says Colleen Arnold, IBM's general manager for year 2000 global services. "Customers must prioritize where they put their resources and money, then determine which projects are continued or kicked off. By that exercise, some projects will be stalled."

However, Arnold says she hasn't seen any customers cancel important projects because of year 2000 work. In fact, she views much of the millennium diversion as a way to clean up nonstrategic work.

IBM isn't standing by waiting for the big business shutdown in 2000. Arnold points to a company Web site ( ) that lets customers enter their mainframe model numbers and match them up to compliant systems. To be sure, the site is a sales tool, but it also offers a free database that customers can use to find out how compliant their current systems are-and to get the answer within 24 hours. IBM says the site gets as many as 215,000 hits a week, a number it expects will grow.

'Tough Couple Of Years'

The view is less sanguine at IBM competitor Amdahl, in Sunnyvale, Calif. "Customers have to be smart in laying out the workload, so it will be a tough couple of years for the application vendors," says Foley of Amdahl. "There's no time to deploy the enterprise applications this year, because customers are on the red line with year 2000. And because companies are so devoted to it, there will be no refueling in '99."

One big issue, given the current people shortage, is how to allocate staff. At Prudential Insurance Co. of America, the business groups assigned their best project managers to year 2000 work. Prudential spared the mainframe staff by outsourcing as much as 70% of the early year 2000 work. But the final business testing is being done in-house. "Companies must juggle people in for the project and then juggle them back out as they achieve success," says Irene Dec, the Newark, N.J., company's VP of corporate IT and companywide year 2000 program manager. "Year 2000 is the IS project-management work of the century."

Another concern is allocating mainframe Mips. Prudential has accommodated the additional burden by bringing in an extra CPU. Installed late last year, the machine will be used for year 2000 testing through the end of 1999. Beyond that, the company hopes the machine will ultimately support new business.

Year 2000 work also eats up a lot of mainframe Mips, so Prudential has moved year 2000 testing to the slowest times of the day, from 5 p.m. to midnight. "We're predominantly in testing now, so we hit CPUs when usage is not as high," says Dec. She says year 2000 testing draws three times the mainframe resources than other projects, in part because every solution has to be tested for at least three possibilities:before the year 2000; the minutes before and after midnight of Dec. 31, 1999; and the first workday of 2000.

Tests Are Taxing

For Prudential and many other mainframe users, this year and next will be dedicated to testing the year 2000 fixes made in the previous two years. This work could be even more taxing on mainframe resources, since many companies-even those willing to outsource the date-field conversion work-want to do the testing internally. Amdahl's Foley believes most companies will be unable to devote multiple mainframes to year 2000 testing. "Multiple dedicated mainframes sitting there are like birth certificates with expiration dates," he says. "Customers can squeeze tests in overnight, but people don't have the capabilities or the budgets for integrated tests."

Year 2000 work is also cutting into the productivity of IT spending. The average IT dollar spent last year by companies generated $38 in corporate revenue, down from $43 in 1996, according to a Meta Group survey of more than 600 companies. Year 2000 isn't the only reason-Meta Group also points to higher salaries due to the labor shortage-but it's among the main reasons. "This is the first time we're seeing inflation of the IT dollar," says Howard Rubin, a research fellow at Meta and chairman of the computer science department at New York's Hunter College. Rubin expects the trend to continue.

Indeed, salaries for year 2000 workers could continue rising. "It will be difficult to find people," predicts David Condra, president of Dalcon Business Systems Inc., a value-added reseller in Nashville, Tenn. Dalcon has year 2000 work scheduled with existing customers, but Condra still expects the issue to tie up resources and cost more money than expected. "Companies are getting anxious now," he says. "That makes people more difficult to find, and more expensive once you find them."

To be sure, there's some debate on the matter. "As much as year 2000 purists want everyone to put brakes on other projects, it can't happen, because business doesn't stand still," says Bob Cohen, VP of the Information Technology Association of America, a trade group in Arlington, Va. The ITAA surveyed a mix of systems vendors, service providers, and software companies, and found that so far, they're not experiencing a mainframe-resource drain. Says Cohen, "They have people on the bench, ready to go."

One mainframe user has turned to a storage solution for year 2000 to spare its production mainframe resources. Lilco used outside consultants for the application-data changes, and it's now using an EMC Corp. storage solution for the system testing. "We looked for a solution separate from our production environment, and EMC had the best offering to build and rebuild as we needed," says Steve Trezza, Lilco's storage-management supervisor.

Slick Trick

Using both EMC hardware and software, Lilco can test and then use production data to refresh the test data, all while the system is running. "EMC gives us a slick way to clip the data and move it to begin testing," says Lilco's Langton. "After testing, we don't have to delete the data or dump data out to tape for the next test iteration. We copy it over while our other work continues."

Companies resort to other measures to spare production resources. Some pay as much as $30,000 a day, plus travel and lodging, to business-recovery vendors such as Comdisco Inc. in Rosemont, Ill., for a testing environment. Others rent systems from Comdisco or grab a Time Machine 2000 mainframe from Amdahl for free ( as long as they purchase consulting services from Amdahl's DMR consulting group ) . And many companies either buy dedicated Mips or partition existing systems after purchasing more CPUs. Amdahl's Foley says a dedicated system, even a rental, is the more secure move. "The partition puts more workload on the production machine and degrades the performance," he explains. "When an IT shop wants to stay in business, performance matters."

Glodo of Merrill Lynch says the personnel and system-resource problems won't go away with the arrival of the new millennium. "As people and resources become available after the year 2000, we'll have latent demand from projects that got put on hold," says Glodo. "Things will get interesting, because it's not like we win the year 2000 war and quit."

-with additional reporting by Bob Violino

Copyright ( c ) 1998 CMP Media Inc.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:23 - ID#408228)
Interesting Article RE: Indonesia
This article is more in the line of background. The Tempo website is also good for daily Indonesia news. Link to story follows:

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:26 - ID#287358)

el-nino causes many big problems....

it also is a trigger mechanism for earthquakes.....

what effect does the record precipitation bring to bear
upon the state of california? along with floods and mud applies pressure due to the vast weight of
the h20...this pressure will be the catalyst for the
'big one'......there is precedent for this.....history
relates the connectivity between the two...

isaac newton, actions and reactions....

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:31 - ID#269409)
@ Cherokee.... Earthquake
Oddly enough, Hydrologists and Seismologists have also agreed that there is conclusive evidence that very wet years percolate enough ground water into the faults, that it can "lubricate" them and cause slippage. However, This process can take years depending on the geology involved,

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:35 - ID#288155)
As so great an effort is being EXPENDED to direct our attention in ONE direction only--
let's walk the circle...
5. Frugality and Operational Efficiency ["From Bretton Woods...]

"Again, with respect to the World Bank in particular, it has much higher overhead costs..
Pecy Mistry concludes that: "...a large part of the World Bank's very extensive and growing research and publication programme appears to be undertaken more for gratifying the academic pretensions of its large number of intellectually inclined ( but perhaps operationally not very useful ) professional staff rather than to support the genuine developmental needs and priorities of its borrowers."

Gerald Helleiner made a point that relates to the inefficiency of the IFIs own published assessments and self-evaluations, which are not trusted by many precisely on that account--

"Where you have the IMF and the World Bank producing reports, assessing the success of their own programs, it's hard to tell whether it's PROPAGANDA or whether it's research."

Might we not do well to keep this in mind, as "they" attempt to form an "Opinion Consenus" ?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:37 - ID#266105)
@left ny heart in san francisco

Buggery begets earthquakes-- Emperor Justinian

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:37 - ID#340459)
Thanks for your alacrity and info on XAU options.
Best of Luck to you.

Spud Master
(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:39 - ID#273112)
@follow up comment
@Tolerant1 -
I haven't HAD my morning coffee yet. I don't even drink coffee. I did have a big glass of sweet lassi ( for you Indian food fans ) .

@Silverado -
I agree regarding guns: Everyone should have them and be trained in their proper and responsible use. 300,000 raped & dead Bosnians would agree, 500,000 hacked to death Ruwadan Tutus would agree. As for the boys - I am sorry to see any one die, but dammit - YOU KILL, AND YOU HANG. PERIOD. CAUSE & EFFECT. Oh yea, what a cruel, brutal, unenlightened society we are. Here, have some more Aids. Have some more rampant divorce. Have some more kinder, gentler street-gangs. Have some more blow-job soliciting Whitehouse whoring.

@Cherokee -
Notice that the legal establishment will sue ANYTHING but Hollywood/TV. It is HIGH TIME that we have IDEA LIABILTY; to whit:

Hollywood/Television/Media are responsible for the ideas they release into the human informational ecosystem. If Hollywood makes a movie that shows human/cetacean sex as a pleasurable, risk-free act, and then open-minded, credulous Americans emulate that behaviour and show up in emergency rooms after a tumble with Giggles the Gray Whale, the Hollywood film producers, writers, diretors and actors should be liable for promoting such ideas. Usual $200 million dollar lawsuit. That should straighten out Hollywood/TV.

Take a rock star - say Michael Jackson. Hundreds of thousands of credulous youth only see the happy, problem free, seductive image projected at concert or TV. They don't seem the teams of lawyers, doctors, psycholgists, accountants camp-followers who tidy up behind him that allow his life-style ( i.e. you can't live that way without millions of dollars ) . Now, before a Michael Jackson concert, is there a BIG disclaimer display informing our credulous youth that: "Don't try this lifestyle without X million dollars, Y lawyers, and Z cleaner-uppers; you could end up in serious debt or lost job or ruined health"?

Now, "Idea Liablity" wouldn't really be necessary IF we all had strong mental immune systems. By "mental immune system" I mean that you have running in your head a system of ethics, morals, religious principals, creedo, whatever, that allow you to examine new ideas, notions, behaviours, and judge which ones are harmful, deleterious - and which ones are useful, good, effective.

A person with a strong mental immune system can fight-off bad ideas - taking drugs, becoming an alcholic, spending yourself into debt, watching Babylon-5 and siding with the Vorlons , etc.

Unfortunately, a strong mental immune system makes you kind of hard to control, to manipulate. Your brain hears some politician or TV commerical urge some stupid/moronic behaviour and your brain says "BS!". This is exactly the kind of behaviour politicians and makers of TV commercials, movies DON'T WANT. They want your mental immune system wide open, weakened, crippled, so they can slip manipulative ideas right into your mind without a fight.

In America, to a large extent, we have had a Judeo-Christan culture whose system of morals,ethics and values effected on an individual a strong mental immune system: thrift, strong family, faith, decent behaviour.

That had to be destroyed for those who lust for money, power in America to attain their goals. ( Please note that Islam, Buddism, Hinduism, etc all also provide their believers with strong mental immune systems - they will be attacked in America too once they become a large enough segment ) .

Hence, we see the non-stop denegiration and "dissing" of Judeo-Christian values by Hollywood, TV and politicians ( when they are not being hypocrites and trying to feign support for it ) . It is OK for Hollywood actors to wear the Christian cross upside down - it's just a piece of jewlery after all, right? But do they wear a similar Kwanza symbol upside down? An Islamic symbol upside down? This is just one tiny piece of their attempt to trivialize and discount the prevailing religion - ultimately crippling it. ( as an side, the Establishment is all for religion where it supports their goals - every piece of our worthless currency bears the words "In God We Trust". Scam people into thinking our money is sound by appealing to their belief in God. Otherwise, no mention of God in our model atheist/Humanist/State Worship schools ) .

Bottom line: If you can make BIG MONEY f**king the minds of our children, its OK. ITS GOOD BUSINESS. ITS RESPECTABLE.

Once again, can i just say: damn you soft-hearted, "open-minded" liberals to hell?

Oh yea, buy gold.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:39 - ID#28861)
Mike Sheller and/or Vronsky
What's the latest on Cornucopia? ( CNPGF ) They are back down to 1/8 and falling. I can't scare up any news.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:44 - ID#251268)
lest anyone think cherokee is being too simplistic in his seismic evaluations,here on the big Island we have a big earthquake every
10 years or so, ( 6.0+ ) main cause is weight and gravity,the new lava adds weight and the whole flank separates from the main mountain and drops causing.Too simple weight and gravity?=rock and roll,kinda like the pressure building in gold ,7 bucks in 20 minutes times 4 months = ? HA

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:57 - ID#269409)
@ Gold sure likes that $300 level
Hmmm, Gold maintaining it's strength be remaining "flat" instead of giving up it's Monday gains. Not a bad sign...

Meanwhile Silver and Platinum doing nicely this morning. Go white's go!
Question is, how long to hold? For me, 3rd quarter of year 2000 is my long range target for holding physical...but of course all that could change drastically between now and then.

Meanwhile, thinking more and more seriously about derivitaves. Missing all the hot money makking action in these volatile white metal markets...Maybe I better give RJ a call.....

(Thu Mar 26 1998 10:59 - ID#20137)
Is Bart running pretend pm spot prices??? Or ia he making a prediction???

Futures Contracts
Updated as of: Mar 26, 1998 @ 10:52 am ET

Sym. Company Name Last Change %Chg High Low Vol.

GC J8 Apr. Gold 3000 +6 +0.2 3004 2990 32.5K
SI K8 May Silver 6325 +135 +2.2 6350 6140 13.0K
HG K8 May High Grade Copper 7980 +85 +1.1 8010 7875 7.04K
PL J8 April Platinum 4140 +73 +1.8 4158 4120 3.66K
PA M8 June Palladium 27000 +675 +2.6 27100 26500 960

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:00 - ID#269409)
@ SPudMaster
Re your 09:29....Amen! Why is it ALWAYS explained, that when evil folks foment evil deeds, it is somehow the fault of the decent?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:04 - ID#431263)
BC to contribute US money to an African genocide survival fund! Wonder if he'll do the same for Joe sixpack once the genocide of US investors begins in the DOW? C'mon Bill, how's about some money for decimated gold investors?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:06 - ID#20137)
Hello..... Tlyer Rose and Questor. Did you get your contracts filled???

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:08 - ID#31868)
The pound is not tied
to gold, right, or did I lose my mind over night.

The Hermit
(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:10 - ID#374232)
@ fundaMETAList - Y2k
Regarding Dave Hall - the web site address for the Society for Information Management Y2k ( SIM International ) is:

According to their roster of membership Dave Hall works for The Millenium Investment Corp in Chicago, Illinois.

I failed to include this information last evening.

The Hermit

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:12 - ID#251268)
white metal options?Last spring I bought a 290 PL call
for 5 pts ( 250 ) held it for a while~~boom 55pts overnight!
I didn't see ANY option sellers in PLatinum for a long time
after that now I've noticed there is some availble but a better play
might be to buy on a dip?doesn't seem like Russia is in a hurry to deliver,they aren't stupid,I'd guess they will stall at least until they can get 450 for the phisical?once the deal is made prices might drop back?all in my uneducated opinion.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:17 - ID#251268)
LGB forgive me sir for
typo on your handle,don't have a good excuse.

Aragorn III
(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:19 - ID#212323)
Questor posted yesterday I believe around 14:00 an interesting tale. After much difficulty, delivery was finally completed. Go back and read the note...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:20 - ID#342282)
Gold convertible curency
Does anyone know of any "major" current currency that is convertible into gold ( not gold"backed" ) by any major nation??

The Hermit
(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:23 - ID#374232)
@ MoReGold & Donald_A - Y2k
It is truly remarkable the amount of funds being budgeted for Y2k expenditures. This is certain to impact the markets - negative for the DOW and positive for GOLD. Would you not agree?

The Hermit

Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug
(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:24 - ID#432214)
Midas, For options info go to
Chicago Board Options Exchange, When at the site just click on "Education". They have pages of option strategies and explain all the features of various options.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:24 - ID#222231)
Thank you for your response Carl. I'll try to look it up 1st chance I get.
Off to yard cleanup. BBL

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:25 - ID#210235)
@TV violence
In Europa, they don't show violence on TV till 10 pm, cause they believe it's a subtle form of brainwashing, wherein children come to see the violent act as an option during a crisis. More and more, I believe they are right. Not for most kids, but a big enough percentage that TV really shouldn't have beat this into their brains.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:25 - ID#342282)
Golden Cheesehead re 6pak
When you stumble out of a honky tonk after a big Shootemup, do you really think BC would be there to help??

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:27 - ID#269409)
@ Your friendly banker, CB advocate...
Thursday March 26, 10:58 am Eastern Time

US banks healthy due to sound economy--Boston Fed

NEW YORK, March 26 ( Reuters ) - Federal Reserve Bank of Boston President Cathy Minehan said on Thursday the U.S. banking
system is healthier than ever due to a sound U.S. economy with low inflation and strict fiscal discipline.

Minehan, however, cautioned against the risks associated with global payments systems as the volume of international transactions
soared in recent years.

``The U.S. banking system is as well capitalized and profitable as it has been at any time in its history -- a model for and the envy of the
world,'' Minehan told the BAI Transaction Processing Conference in New Orleans.

Minehan made the remarks in a prepared speech also available in New York.

``Sound macroeconomic policies, focused on low inflation and ever-lower budget deficits are critical,'' said Minehan, who is a voting
member of the Federal Open Market Committee ( FOMC ) this year. Minehan also heads the Fed's Financial Services Committee and is a
member of the commission on the future role of the Fed in the financial services arena. That commission is headed by Fed vice chair
Alice Rivlin.

Minehan told the conference that issues involving payments systems have become crucial ``to both central banks and the financial service
industry'' worldwide.

``Over the years, volumes and the potential for risk have escalated to the point that the consideration of payments systems is a key focus
in central bank meetings and in the boardrooms of major financial and non-financial companies everywhere,'' Minehan noted.

The Boston Fed president cautioned about the challenges resulting from new technologies that transform payment systems services,
from check clearing to real-time settlements.

``Technology provides the easy blurring of any distinction between electronic wholesale and retail payments systems, providing the
potential for values to grow in systems not broadly designed for such use,'' Minehan said.

Minehan also stressed that such challenges have created a greater need than ever ``for central bank involvement in the fundamental
issues of payments system accessibility, efficiency and integrity

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:27 - ID#254110)
spot prices
When will kitco post updates to the March gold and silver charts? I was away for sometime and want to update my charts. Would appreciate the Mar 17th - 21st data. Thanks

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:28 - ID#26793)
Dollars flodding into Brazil (Anyone know why?)

John Disney__A
(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:29 - ID#24135)
People NEED Palladium !!
For Brother Oris
What do you think about 360 Palladium today??

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:31 - ID#288155)
The East/West War--GOLD, the Dinar Battle
Dnya, Thur Mar 26 1998

Full Support from the Five NGO's
The five prominent NGO's --representing workers, employers and tradesmen-- issued a common declaration following the summit held yesterday in Ankara. Trk-Is, DISK, TISK, TOBB and TESK state their full support for the government's program of fight against fundamentalism. The declaration says that all illegal and secret organizations and staff within the State should be liquidated.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:35 - ID#26793)
In the strict sense there is no currency that is exchangeable into gold in the way it was done pre 1934. Walk into a bank with paper and walk out with the gold. No questions asked.

In a general sense any in country that allows its citizens to hold gold you can make the exchange at a coin shop or coin dealer after filling out the paperwork, paying the sales tax, value added tax or whatever rules may apply in that country.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:36 - ID#27499)
All: What is The Sin of Prof. Hanke?

Doubting the prevailing doctrine, analysis and medicine?


Aragorn III
(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:36 - ID#212323)
Chas...answer to your 11:20 question
The USdollar springs to mind. It is 100% convertable at any bullion dealer, but it is not "backed" by gold at the USTreasury as a condition for its creation. An ideal situation for any clear thinking fellow who has a paper income but knows value a few days before anyone else recognizes it.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:42 - ID#345176)
@ Prometheus on TV violence

You are right that in Europe they don't show much violence before 10pm but:

I have been disgusted for what I have seen on British TV AFTER 10pm. PORNO rules, and I consider the British TV producers the scams of the world.

When on national channels one witnesses the filth presented on British TV, and when challenging Brits on the issue they find nothing wrong with it, I say that night TV in US ( after 10 pm ) is considerably better.

Strad Master
(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:43 - ID#250297)
Studio R's visit
ALL: Yesterday Studio R came to visit with his lovely wife. First time I've had a Kitcoite over for a meal. Had a great time. He's just as nice in person in real life as in his postings. ( Leaving aside that little incident with the hamster and the glass of milk! I won't go into that here. ) . Anyhow, for those of you who've missed Studio's postings, he's due back today.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:48 - ID#288155)
re: stock market run-ups--the quid pro quo for the dinar battle?
Letter from Istanbul
Public interest is high on some issues but actual involvement low. Istanbul Stock Exchange index is closely followed, price fluctuations watched, company profiles investigated. However, total number of investors at the Istanbul Stock Exchange are calculated as about 160 000. Investing on papers is seen as a game, sometimes even as the worst kind of "gambling."

WE MAY NOT SEE STOCK EXCHANGE AS A SERIOUS INVESTMENT, BUT FOREIGN FUNDS DO. The impact of foreign capital on Istanbul Stock Exchange has neared 40%, and growing.

Donald@Brazil.Why? Some very BIG players have made some VeryBIG bets
in Brazil...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:50 - ID#286349)
Gold is a leading indicator. Gold will rise before the major events happen that everyone believes will trigger it. Smart money is buying now. Lets all watch as it leads us away from $300/oz.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:51 - ID#342282)
Arragon III
Thanx. But what I had in mind was- if you were selling oil and preferred gold, you have to take the currency and "buy" gold. What may happen if you could get a gold convertible currency @ 30%. How does this effect the trade. If this sounds weird, don't feel like the lone ranger. I'm still working out something here,Charlie

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:54 - ID#429270)
Ted Spread seems to be heading up...
from 58 to the 82 area today.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 11:57 - ID#342282)
Donald re currency/gold
Thanx. See my comment to AragonIII. Will reply when brain clears and some replys are in

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:01 - ID#31868)
Not too happy in Japan
Japanese executive, deep in debt, arranges his own murder
Copyright  1998
Copyright  1998 Agence France-Presse

TOKYO ( March 26, 1998 01:13 a.m. EST ) - A debt-ridden Japanese businessman arranged his own murder so his estate would get more than $2 million in insurance money, a court official said Thursday.

The 47-year-old executive, Kenichi Iwashiro, asked a detective to kill him so his life insurance would cover huge debts which totaled more than 300 million yen ( $2.3 million ) , the official said. Detective Harue Yamagishi, 42, strangled Iwashiro with a rope and stabbed him several times in the chest with an ice pick, the court official said.

The detective was sentenced to seven years in jail for murdering the executive in a car parked on a farm road in Awara, central Japan, on Jan. 20 of last year and for another attempted murder. Details were unavailable about the murdered man's business. The case added a new twist to a rash of suicides here driven not by family or personal anguish but the embarrassment of financial failure or wrongdoing at the office.

On March 20, Kazuo Iwai, a 53-year-old director of a Tokyo chemical wholesale company, jumped from an eighth-floor apartment after killing his wife and daughter. "I have caused trouble to my family and company only because I became a guarantor," Iwai said in his suicide note.

A Japanese printing company boss strangled his wife and then hanged himself on March 14, blaming financial problems in his suicide note.

Earlier this month, a financially troubled picture frame company head and his wife were found hanged in their home. Three Japanese executives running a car parts supply business hanged themselves in adjoining rooms in a Tokyo hotel on Feb. 25 after facing mounting debts.

In the latest case, the killer detective was also accused of attempting to carry out a murder contract on a 26-year-old truck driver, ordered by the intended victim's father, the court official said.

The detective tried to kill the son after he fell asleep drunk at his home in October 1995 by placing him in a car and trying to stage an accident in Fukumitsu, central Japan, he said.

The attempt failed when the car ran into a ditch instead, the court official said. The son escaped after being struck with a wrench and the father is now serving a three-year jail term, the official said.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:03 - ID#266105)

Paragraph excerpted from lengthy two part editorial
published in the WSJ on Monday and Tuesday entitled
The Case for the Euro ( Parts 1 & 2 ) by a Robert Mundell.
Byline: Mr. Mundell, professor of economics at Columbia
University is the 1997-98 AGIP professor of economics
at the John Hopkins Bologna ( ! ) Center of the Paul Nitze
School of Advanced Economic Studies.

"While the dollar, the euro and the yen will be the
most important currencies in the world for some time to
come, it would be a mistake to ignore the role of gold.
Gold is currently the second most important reserve asset.
Total above-ground gold stocks amount to about 110,000 tons,
worth $1.1T at $10 million a ton. Financial authorities hold
about a third of this--more exactly, 1.1 billion ounces--
worth $330 billion at $300 an ounce. EU countries hold
458 million ounces, counting gold held by the European
Monetary Institute on their behalf. By comparison, the
U.S. holds 262 million ounces. Europe will this have a
strong voice in determining the role played by gold in
the future of the international monetary system.

It would be a mistake to think that Europe's interest
would lie in dumping large stocks of gold in any big sell-off.
None of the big holders have any interest in depressing the
price of an important reserve asset. But Europe may find
that its gold holdings have a hitherto unnoticed use in
building confidence in the euro.


Off to jury duty.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:09 - ID#432157)
Professor Mundale-Boy do I love this Guy

Aragorn III
(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:10 - ID#212323)
Sorry, Charlie, but that's where I fall on my face...
I have no concept how a currency can be "backed" by a PECENTAGE amount of gold. Given the floating exchange rates amongst currencies and compared to gold, I fail to see how a PERCENTAGE would have meaning...the mass of gold attached to each paper note would vary daily--very cumbersome. Payment for oil with gold directly could be easily done between willing parties. A paper receipt for X-amount of gold in a warehouse could also be used for payment, and perhaps the oilman would provide a paper receipt for X-amount of oil from a broker. The new receipt holders would then ask for delivery.
The Swiss Franc is the only currency that I'm aware of that has some intimate ties with gold, but someone else will have to provide the illumination on that score. Anybody...?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:20 - ID#411233)
GOLD 300.70 +1.90------SILVER 6.41 +.17----BURN BABY BURN!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:22 - ID#26793)
Lots of trading in Battle Mountain. Reason?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:26 - ID#410198)
Notice a pattern here,vilification recently..guns,gold,God,now read this

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:32 - ID#227290)
Market Comments
To all:

We're getting the expected turnaround at this time; it didn't wait for Friday. The first goal for gold is to break the January high around $305-$305. If that can't be done, then we'll have to do more basing.
David Marantette wanted to go short the XAU today at 74.20 but he never got the chance and is still long.
Pity the guy who sold a bunch of Bema Gold this morning at C$3.01 on Toronto. The stock is now C$3.24. The March high for Bema has been C$3.35. It will be nice to see that fall.
Stay tuned. We could get a very good rally here and totally change the perception of this market.

Happy trading,

The Preacher

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:33 - ID#401460)

Pegasus Gold up a $0.01 today, a definitive up trend has been established - I bought some more, What the Heck!

They are in Chapt 11 reorganization, that is not bankruptcy, they are not broke.

"They had $27 MN in cash, which would tide them over for at least a year. Cost of production is about 275/OZ." ChasAbar__A

Let Her Rip!!! Go Gold a bottom has been put in look at ANY chart.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:34 - ID#238422)
John Disney/Palladium
Brother John,

I think probability for $360 today is very low.

But here is how it's probably gonna work in my opinion:

1. If Russia has very serious internal problems,
very serious, I mean, you will see price rise to
this area of $325-$350, triggered by concerns of
international traders, but then a very sharp drop
very shortly. Why? Because in times of troubles in Russia
somebody always finds a way to smuggle something valuable
out of Russia, using a pretty strong mess in goverment
structures, and JUST DUMP THIS STUFF to some friendly traders..

2. If Russia is O.K. and under control, PA may go to $360
if PL goes above $500. Right now, I do not smell it at all.

Also, right now nothing is going on in Russia which will
make me think about #1 or #2 as being fully applicable.

I do not think PA will hit $360 today or tomorrow.
I can see it up to $320-330 max. in 1998, and only if
shipments from Russia are delayed until August-September
of 1998.

Brother Oris, Palladium Man.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:35 - ID#20137)
Name, location Currency ( price ) weight
Isure, Louisiana Us$1.99 Pound
Bully Beef Canadian $ 7.03
Canadian $ 3.19 Kilogram
Lan Man, So. California US$4.95 pound
Quixotic, New Hamsphire US$3.79 Pound
Donald, eastern Connecticut US$2.99 Pound
Fummer,? US$2.99 Pound
Chas, Morganton N.C. US$4.29 Pound
John Dinsey 11.5 Rand
5.22 Rand Kilogram
Aurator Chose a better test substance.

Well, our test input is limited, but we have learned some information.

1. A better standard for comparison is needed.
2. Everyone needs to submit location along with price and measure.
3. A currency comparison can be made in this manner.

I would like to try this one more time, with the following changes.

1. Give me the cost in your local currency for Salt ( please give location country and city and weight measurement ) A.Goose Cupoertino, California, USA US$ 0.1656 per ounce ( us$26.5 per pound ) .
2. E-mail the information to Salt> You need to have a space between Salt and Std ( Salt ) .
3. We will collect data until we get a fair representation from countries around the world.
4. Using Salt should give us a good gauge for evaluting the value of various currencies around the world as compared to the US dollar.

Shall we try this??


(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:39 - ID#401460)
End Of Quarter

Are they dressing up this week, adding some Gold to their wardrobe? If not yet, they will tomorow.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:39 - ID#252150)
I would advise against buying them. There is nothing more frustrating than being right--but a week, or even a day late & losing the entire amount that was paid for them.
From what I've read, with rare exceptions, only the writers make money with options.
I think the odds improve drastically when you buy the futures contracts.
At least that's been my experience.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:42 - ID#288155)
"...therefore an urgent ensure that the transition to a TRIPOLAR CURRENCY system PROCEEDS coordination to minimize instability in the exchange and capital markets

USD ( ?;Euro ( for sure ) and...Asian Currency Unit...or...SDR?

A.Goose@Salt.for.Value.Comparision An excellent choice, for a number of reasons ( salt as a currency in times past=salary ) not the least of
which is that it DOES represent a biological imperative for the human
organism! Well Done!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:42 - ID#20137)
(Sorry about the table... hopefully this will come out easier to read)
Name, location Currency ( price ) weight
Isure, Louisiana Us$1.99 Pound
Bully Beef Canadian $ 7.03 Kilogram
Canadian $ 3.19 pound
Lan Man, So. California US$4.95 pound
Quixotic, New Hamsphire US$3.79 Pound
Donald, eastern Connecticut US$2.99 Pound
Fummer,? US$2.99 Pound
Chas, Morganton N.C. US$4.29 Pound
John Dinsey 11.5 Rand Kilogram
5.22 Rand Pound
Aurator Choose a better test substance.

Well, our test input is limited, but we have learned some information.

1. A better standard for comparison is needed.
2. Everyone needs to submit location along with price and measure.
3. A currency comparison can be made in this manner.

I would like to try this one more time, with the following changes.

1. Give me the cost in your local currency for Salt ( please give location country and city and weight measurement ) A.Goose Cupoertino, California, USA US$ 0.1656 per ounce ( us$26.5 per pound ) .
2. E-mail the information to Salt You need to have a space between Salt and Std.
3. We will collect data until we get a fair representation from countries around the world.
4. Using Salt should give us a good gauge for evaluting the value of various currencies around the world as compared to the US dollar.

Shall we try this??


Bully Beef
(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:49 - ID#259282)
Dang I called RYO up 25% and it's 46% up right now.
I hate when that happens. Sell now and re-invest the profit.Win win.No emotional involvement.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:51 - ID#288155)
" Swiss Franc is the only currency that I'm aware of that has some intimate..."
X% gold backing still is playing the paper game, unfortunately. The Swiss backing must be viewed in the full light of the "Swiss Situation";
their government has a long and honorable tradition of fiscal prudence--therefore a 40% 'backing' provides a kind of hand-brake,
for new currency to be printed, 40% of the currency face amount must
be available in gold. They make it work. Can one visualize Italy, e.g., exercising the same prudence? Allow me my grave doubts. {:- )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:51 - ID#252150)
Donald's 09:34 illustrates how desperate the Japanese Govt is
They need to use postal savings to prop up their stock mkt so that the their banks can remain solvent. Do they think that this will inspire investor confidence? It seems that all their resources will eventually be sucked into the black hole of insolvency.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 12:58 - ID#31868)
Y2K problems reported on CNBC
The international group of information managers or something like that reported that 44% of respondents have already had some type of 2000 problem and 66% of respondents had trouble in testing 2000 problems.

Inspires confidence huh.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:00 - ID#340344)
A Goose
Salt here in San Carlos is below $1.00 per pound. I am only
20 miles from Cupertino, California. Maybe you should buy
a truckload of salt here and sell it to your neighbors. Heh

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:00 - ID#286279)
I have been grieving for america. I wept when i saw the tv news ( after having heard of it first here ) about two pubescent boys in camauflage gear and automatic weapons, flush a chatter of pubescent girls out of a school hall by a false fire alarm, into a shooting gallery. I weep still.  aurator

A response hardly restricted to open minded liberals. I am not liberal, I am pro gun. Even so, I feel the same way as aurator.

It is an awful tragedy, those boys are too young to understand.

And while we are lamenting this horrible set of murders in Arkansas, let us pause to think of the dozens of children gunned-down by street gangs in our, big, happy, liberal, happy inner-cities that same Spring day, Spud Master

Yes another tragedy, but not in any way comparable. Government statisticians count anyone up to age 19 as a child. Yes, innocent children are shot sometimes, but mostly these are adult criminals shooting each other.

As SOON as they are ready, all parents should teach their children about responsibilty including firearm safety. But those young girls should have been packing pistols? Give me a break.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:01 - ID#288155)
James, walk the circle with me a moment....
They HAVE postal SAVINGS to use! {:- ) )

We need perhaps, to remember that the Round-Eyed Magician's
hand is faster than the observer's eye and that his professional
"line" of chatter is a purposeful part of his MAGIC, "Look at Japan's awful state of affairs...", "Look at Europe's Brave and Wonderful NEW FACE"...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:01 - ID#401460)
YR 2 K

"CNBC just reported that this may be more than just a "techy's" concern, Bell Atlantic warning that it will cost them millions."

We better get our cans and string out if we want to talk about Gold in the year 2000.

Go NEM +1 3/8 Don't you just love this? $301.10


(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:09 - ID#251166)
@ ANOTHER Re. Your Reply

Thank you for your attention.

I have learned ( perhaps from my wife ) how to communicate by implication. So let me say explicitly ( at the risk of sounding jingoistic ) : How right you are! America truly is the best of the best. History bears this out with little dispute.

William Faulkner, when asked how best to write about one's home -- that is, one's beloved home -- with objective detachment, replied ( paraphrased ) , "You have to hate it -- you have to hate it as you hate your wife." ( Faulkner too communicated often by implication. )

In echo of sentiments posted here by many, I deeply love my country. This, in fact, is the main of our quandary: pain is pain by whom ( or what ) love binds; it is indifference that stands opposed to passion. My remarks re. my promiscuous nation I express mournfully. She is not unlike the prostitute Gomer, whom Hosea ( minor prophet, Old Testament ) married, appointed as he was to live a sermon on unrequited love. Gomer's persistent unfaithfulness was a source of great anguish; Hosea's love for her, however, remained unshakable.

But my nation -- gack! my nation! -- comprised of the guys in my office complex, the guys on my baseball team, my neighbors, my friends, my clients, my mom and dad, my brother, my sister, my in-laws, my church, my mentors, my staff -- all pumping fast money into the hands of fast brokers ( who themselves are merely doing their jobs efficiently ) -- this is my nation, my reflection, my passion. And it's all going down ( IMHO ) .

I pray you are right, Mr. ANOTHER -- that what you envision for gold comes about. When you said ( 3/7/98, 13:25 ) "The coming change in perception of money will reward courageous buyers with a return unseen in these times!" -- I believed it. I believed it, and acted upon it, before I ever stumbled onto Kitco and your posts. But understand, kind sir, as much as we itch to see the POG pop over some threshold or into a certain range, we watch with trepidation; the higher gold soars, the more distance spans between those hard days to come and these days, these sweet days. Those important to us today, as misguided financially as we think they may be -- we're seeing them at their best. And we will miss them. My overriding motive for my relatively meager investment in gold is the hope that I can be there, in those days, for them.

All that said, I cannot for the life of me discern your motive for communicating with us. Even as I carefully consider all you've posted -- and even as I am both enlightened by, and frequently in ( hopeful ) agreement with, your conclusions -- I remain suspicious. Our reasons for being here at Kitco are, of course, transparent. But why, dear sir, in all your seeming worldly stuff, why do you share your thoughts with us? For what reason have you chosen as beneficiaries of your insights us little Kitcoites? This, I believe, is what we express behind the words "Who are you?"

Thank you for reading. Looking forward to your response.


Dean W. Jones

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:09 - ID#287338)
$300 Gold Special
Stay Tuned for the Spot Gold $300 Special. Could be today! When gold hits $300/oz we will all be discussing where we go from here and what brought us to this point. All at the close of trading the day it happens right here on Kitco...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:10 - ID#401460)
Things Are Moving UP!

Keep An Eye On This Chart!^tyx&d=b

ARM rates are moving UP.
CRB moving UP.
Oil Moving UP News conference coming up.
REIT trust are moving UP - Indicates rates may be going up.

"Soros bought Silver mining stocks " CNBC

"GOLD $303.20" CNBC


(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:12 - ID#32078)
An overlooked motivation for the shooting is that one boy said that he was going to get even because a girl dumped him. Where did he get the idea that he could shoot an ex-girlfriend because he didn't get his way?

Not from the NRA. Not from church. Not from the Boy Scouts. Not from school. From TV-maybe. From his family, probably. I would guess that his male role model is a real jerk.

This cultural deviation is just another sign that the lack of discipline and morals reaps its own reward. Does this say anything about the country's acceptance of the low morals of our leader? Indirectly, the price of gold will respond when the house of cards falls.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:15 - ID#208393)
@ TheHermit - Y2K & productivity
Incredible resources are being expended on Y2K.
Unfortunately, nothing new or useful will be produced
as a result of this expenditure. New initiatives are
being put on hold while this problem is being fixed.
The government and legal bureaucracies are benefiting
big time and the tax-payer will be stuck with a
horrific bill to begin the new millennium.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:18 - ID#246224)
Alberich, chas, chevy, clone, Hermit & Prometheous (alpha ordered list!)
thanks! I've had a heck of a time keeping up. After digging out the bunker by hand yesterday after noon, putting in the 1000 gallon fuel tank and sealing 127 barrels of freeze dried pemican, I have been a little bushed ;- ) Hard to keep up with all the first rate posts and news gathering going on here these days.

re: gold sale/"positive spin". Take a look at the site under market report for today ( 3/26 ) . A fine rumor is afoot! I am ignorant but suspicious of all published 'news'. Seems now sales are a "good sign", but were a "bad sign". This could be some social signalling going on here. I can't pretend to know but I can guess. %-}

Prometheous and Alberich,
thank you for the telecom stories. Most of us dwell in the serenity of our own little world of expertise. It is hard for us to imagine the situations of other expertise with which we have had little or no contact. These stories tell us all is not as advertised by the industry PR mouth pieces ( which those paranoid among us knew already ( and which we knew that they knew that we knew - if ya know what I mean ( wink wink, nudge nudge ) ) ) . Keep 'em coming, OK? Thanks!

way to polite ( grin thing ) . You may end up having a good influence on us here 8-{} ! Keep it up. Your posts always cordial and helpful. Much appreciated. Maybe you could have a word with Spud Meister and a few others: "Mr Hermit, your assignment, if you choose to accept it, .. However, if you are discovered we will disavow any knowledge of your existence. pssstttt***"

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:18 - ID#257148)
spud master
read again what i said, my position and yours are identical, except, that you live in america and i dont. I did say hollywood was responsible my tuberous friend, and what's worse, our kids watch the same movies, one day something similar may happen here. Yes, it is just the beginning. As for fleeing the cities? I have sold the farm and am moving into deepest darkest Auckland in a week or two. just being a contrarian. ;- )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:19 - ID#25171)
Dollar bears
Some huge buying of 6 month 1.70 $ puts options today ( about 3 billions$ ) by SOROS through a Chicago bank.
Lots of $ selling on top of that.We are getting there.We already can feel the shift from positive to negative sentiment towards US assets.
GOLD will surge pretty quickly after that.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:19 - ID#32078)
If the telephone system fails, no credit card purchases will be allowed and the internet will shut down. Trading over the web will therefore shut down. Investment prices will be unknown except by radio and TV, unless the utility companies think you haven't paid your bill and cut you off. Buy lots of batteries. Better yet, buy battery stocks and sell them in December 99.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:21 - ID#288155)
"The World Oil Supply 1990-2030", Petroconsultants, Geneva, Switzerland--1995
1. "Petroconsultants report deals with the realitiers of the statistics, pointing out the world is finding only about seven billion barrels of oil each year in a falling trend, while producing 23 billion barrels a year in answer to rising demand."

2. 2/5/96--Japan's Ministry of International Trade and Industry ( MITI ) reported that the level of Japan's crude oil imports from the Middle East had reached a new high in 1995 of 78.6 percent of the country's oil imports. Japan imported slightly more than 1.3 billion barrels of oil during the year from the Middle East. Imports from Indonesia and China shrank, partly because of increased consumption within China iteslf, the Ministry said.

3. The study emphasizes that a country's or region's peak oil production comes at the midpoiint of depletion, when half of its oil has been produced. Then oil production declines to zero at its depletion rate. North American production peaked in 1974, and the world will hit its midpoint around 2000, the consultancy estimates. Although detailed numbers from the Petroconsultants study were not made public, the group previously predicted in 1994 that production would peak in the year 1999
at 65.6 million barrels a day, and decline to 52.6 million barrels a day by 2010.

4. The Petroconsultants study concludes that while the world may not be running out of oil, it is running out of cheap oil.

Running out of cheap oil in dollars? Running out of cheap oil in gold?
What truly establishes the VALUE of anything? What is a rational, reasonable, plausible benchmark of value?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:24 - ID#340302)
EDPER...the company spending over 100 million to buy effective control of ROYAL OAK, is owned by the BRONFMAN of the wealthiest families in the world.

This marks the family's first pure gold investment move in many many years.

Yet another major wealthy family hedging its bets against a Dow/Nasdaq

What does it mean.

It's here.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:27 - ID#31868)
I think when silver really heats up
that First Silver Reserve will explode, take a look at FSR, SSRIF, SIL, SSC, PAASF and compare.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:29 - ID#286279)

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:31 - ID#224149)
Never be shy
Some back filling in Gold to come Good time to take a profit.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:32 - ID#212197)
I wanted to thank you, Sam, for your post. I'm just coming back from a lunch walk and I had to think about this painful dialogue.
I also couldn't find anything "liberal" in Spud's post. He reacts with emotions of compassion. Aurator reacts with emotions of aggression.
Somtimes, the immune system has a way to overreact and to attack healthy body cells. Same seems to be true for the mental immune system.

I worry about America a lot, even though I'm not American. What will become of the American middle class when all their retirement savings will go down the drain ?

Alberich the Dwarf

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:32 - ID#25171)
ANOTHER post last night Only for those interested
It is obvious that the literacy displayed by ANOTHER last night is different from the one he displayed when discussing with ALLEN before.

I think he has a translator working for him . He tried to short circuit him but created a very poor impression.From yesterday 's exchanges I think it is clear to every one that he is ME and also deserves some consideration ( not adoration )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:33 - ID#401460)
Van Eck Hard Assets
Van Eck Gold Resources
30 Year Bond Yield^tyx&d=b

Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart
5 Market Years ( Approx )
120 days

Yahoo Gold
Yahoo XAU^XAU&d=1y

Gold Daily>>>>>>>>>
Gold Weekly

30 yr Daily

Copper Daily
Copper Weekly


Natural Gas

Oil Daily
Oil Weekly 4 days ago

Corn Daily
Corn Weekly
Corn indicates deflation, we should watch Grains + El Nino affect on supply?



(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:34 - ID#342282)
Like I say, don't feel like the lone ranger. I'm waiting on some more definitive replies by official contacts, if they talk. Will let you know. I can appreciate your comments.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:37 - ID#341189)
On berserkedness
Going berserk with weapons is as old as Homer. Achilles went over the edge when Agamenon took the woman he wanted and thought he deserved as a spoil of war. Nothing new under the sun except the destructive power of the weapons.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:38 - ID#269409)
@ Sequin...another
Re your 13:32, the reason ANOTHER's posts very greatly in style and syntax, is that when he gets real tired, or in a great hurry, it's more difficult for him to put the mental energy into perpetuating the "charade". He thus reverts to his normal native English grammatical style and it blows his cover. His disciples never seem to catch on to this, or if they do, they also rationalize it off as an "interpreter".

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:40 - ID#410198)
President Clinton,who's side is he on,after trashing his own country now he is
quoting Max Weber as red as they come who died insane,and married his cousin,

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:43 - ID#26669)
John disney re Durban Deep reorganization.
Mr. Disney,
You recall that the company started a reorganization last year due to the sudden fall in gold prices. Well, I got some proxy vote materials today related to a stock issue to gain capital to finish their infrastructure upgrade and accelerate overburden stripping at West Witwaterstrand Gold Mines. According to their info they've compreted the reorganization ( scuttlebutt has it they completed it before schedule ) .
Could you comment and add to this?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:43 - ID#288399)
Hillary's billing in Vincent's attic?
Starr using new billing records from the Rose Law firm as fresh trail to Whitewater dirt.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:44 - ID#31868)
Also back at the silver mines
you should all go and look at little ole CFB - Clifton as they have released some very good news.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:46 - ID#246224)
Ever the contrarian, as you always are!!! I appreciate your empathy. I think you antipodians tend to have a better community spirit than those here in the USA, where people tend to get alienated, selfish and 'independent' as a rule. 'Mate' has no equivalent here. It is the community's respondsibility in that we enable the environment of lassitude and condone sin as a 'freedom' issue in public expression.

Doubtless these young ones have been 'educated' ( family, social group ) in a way that places violence higher on the list of usable solutions to social problems. My brother lives in the South and he indicates that there is an undertone of threat and violence which I find appalling to consider.

Spud's response to you, IMO, is typical of alot of folks here who feel a great deal of frustration at the endless concessions to rot and degradation which is called 'my rights' and 'freedom' here. Many see the whirlwind coming and are frankly angry about it.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:46 - ID#340302)
...who spent the past year mocking your gold investments call up out of the blue to get info about gold. Psychological shift?

IMHO if gold sustains itself above 300 in the last half hour of trading, there will be a tremendous short cover that might result in the first double digit gain for gold this year.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:47 - ID#269409)
Gold...speaking as a dealer
Homestake up 8% and ECO up 12%.....Hmmmm, if the shares lead the metal, maybe I'be been underestimating the strength of the yellow in my Monday posts. It does appear that $300 has become the new shelf of stability, and that a move higher could well be in the cards.

Being close to the Numismatic community, I can tell you this. Gold coin purchases are at near frenzy levels lately, compared to the past few years. Lot's of interest in both bullion, and Numismatic pre 1933 Gold coins. Prices on the Numismatics moved up substantially last week and this.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:51 - ID#317193)
Coming to a town near you soon-change. Hedge your bets -soon. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:53 - ID#31868)
I'm shocked, I thought for sure you knew that the Coward Erect is only on the Coward Erect's side. Shocking, simply shocking.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:55 - ID#287338)
Hear that noise???

The Gold Bull has officially awaken and will appear in New York for a face off with the Gold Bear . The bell rings at 2PM EST with 30 minutes of rounds. Who will be left stading? Hurry, place your bets now and watch it ring side.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 13:59 - ID#286279)
Alberich the Dwarf
I think you have figured out by now that in your post you reversed the handles of aurator and Spud Master. Think I'll go for walk too. Take care.

Carpe Aurem
(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:01 - ID#339292)
Excuse mr, LGB, but how can you say that $300 looks like the new support level when the price can barely stay afloat at that level and hasn't even closed out a week at that price or above. I want to believe as well, but the chart tells me that the support level is definitely BELOW $300.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:02 - ID#410198)
tolerant1,big reason to buy gold one word.....Babba..screwed up my last url

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:04 - ID#255284)
I appreciate all your posts, our differences perhaps emphasise our essential similarities. Thank you for your 13:46.

It is true about our feeling of community. During the power cuts in auckland, the typical kiwi response to crisis showed even in our biggest, most impersonal city.

the crime rate decreased and, unbelievably for some of the worst drivers in the world, we changed our driving habits. without traffic lights we gave way to each other, we slowed down, we took care. Some years ago my sister was in the centre of the Edgecumbe earthquake, that I have posted about here before. With no emergency services or civil defence or army or police or anything, the people of the town organised themselves visited every house noted all supplies of food and water.

I must have been hallucinating, I am sure I read that someone thought those young barbie-dreaming girls should be carrying automatic weapons to make the rambo-not-yet-shaved not-even-teenagers think twice about shooting them.

no aggression there, amigo, just empathy across the oceans,

Questioner to Ghandi: "What do you think of Western civilisation?"

Ghandi: "I think it would be a good thing."

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:04 - ID#210163)
ryo and the Bronfmans (or however you spell that)
What is the connection between Bronfman and Ryo. I dont recognize that name. bye

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:07 - ID#340302)
Mr. Aurem...with respect to your chart analysis...



(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:08 - ID#289357)

Didyasee the Islamic dinars for sale ad??

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:10 - ID#238295)
open interest
Looks like I was right about the big drop in open interest being bullish for gold. The shorts have been the smart money in this market for a long time; anybody counting on making a big profit from a squeeze on this group of investors was betting against long odds. The big drops in POG on the way down generally were preceded by a large jump in open interest and short positions. So the steep decline in open interest these last few days was decidedly bullish despite Kapaln's assertion to the contrary.

The recent strength in oil should disabuse anybody of the lingering notion that crude will again go under $15. No way Jose. THE POWER doesn't want this. And it ain't gonna happen. On the other hand do not count on crude going above $20 anytime soon. Still expect a $15-$20 trading range for some time to come.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:11 - ID#340302)
...Sam Bronfman created Distillers Seagram...his descendants split into two branches. The EDPER branch is reputedly worth in the neighborhood of 12 billion dollars.

EDPER owns TRILON which effectively purchased Royal Oak the other day.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:12 - ID#251268)
Farfel,um hm thats the way I Iike it,
thats the way I like it um hm I DON"T CARE-I"M BUYING MORE!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:16 - ID#238295)
the shorts
Farfel: The shorts HAVE ALREADY COVERED much of their position. Gold will be going much higher in the weeks and months ahead, but do not count on a massive short squeeze.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:18 - ID#197328)

My duties have kept me away from this forum a bit but
just read SpudMaster's 0929 and 1039 of today. I've got
to join LurkingGoldBug in giving you a hearty "Amen"! for
your comments.

Go gold..

Go Clinton...and don't come back.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:23 - ID#244242)
Point of Inflection
I would like to think that I am a passable student of human nature as it relates to the theme of this thread. It seems to me that we are not far ( within a year-MAYBE 18 months ) of flipping socialogically from secure/lassais-faire to widespread and extreme dysfunction/psychosis for all the reasons elucidated heretofore. I think that once we pass this inflection point the slide toward chaos/martial law would take maybe three to six months because it is such a huge economy. However, this time frame is pretty small in comparison to the entire economic history of the U.S. While there still may be pockets of solid/robust communities here and there across the U.S. at this juncture, the majority of the country's society and infrastructure seems very fragile indeed. Most people are still only two paychecks from bankruptcy and even now, with a 'Goldilocks' economy, interpersonal relations are tense-to say the least. Examples that come to mind would be the 'Road Rage' phenomenon and corporations making workers do the jobs of two or three people with little increase in pay-but major increases of 'bad' stress. My opinion of the low crime statistics of late is that it is just the calm before the storm-caused by the smokin' economy. Cynicism is reaching all time highs. It seems most have decided to give up the moral and religious high ground for a totally arbitrary lifestyle where the only sin is getting caught. No wonder folks rationalize President Clinton's alleged behaviour. It is easier to live down to the lowest common denominator of lifestyle. Only when the consequences may involve immediate destruction do more and more people obey the law. If you hoard a stash of precious metals-or anything others would find useful, you had better have an arsenal to go along with 'em because either the Government or your neighbors are not going to let you keep it for long. Right now I would say that if/when this social inflection point is reached and the signs become undeniable you keep the car filled with gas and in good repair so you can rendezvous at a predetermined spot with like-minded individuals or close friends/relatives in a rural area where you could then 'circle the wagons'. Hope I am totally wrong on this! Felt good to get it off my chest though.

Charles Keeling
(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:28 - ID#344225)
First Silver made it's move and then
Palladium jumped to new high's. The Palladium
increase justified a big move in Platinum.

With Platinum $115.00 higher per ounce than
Gold, could it be that this major divergence
will act as a catalyst to move GOLD higher
in coming weeks.?

Manufacturers of jewelry should be making
plans to use the yellow metal in place of the
white because of this price divergence.

Can anyone remember when their was such a
price difference between the two metals?

At any rate, this difference is sure to
increase demand for AU in the very near

Of course the reason that this difference
is so great can be attributed to the push
by the EMU to have their 11 members meet
certain pre-requisites. Sale of Gold to pay
down debt has been going on for some while
now. Hopefully it has reached a conclusion.

The article below, which bears it's own
copyright, speaks to the current state of the
EMU. IMHO this attempt to form a new CB
that will serve 11 seperate Nations will
experience grave problems if not TOTAL
FAILURE. It's timing steps on the toes of the
Y2K target date!!!!!!!


Single Currency

11 Nations

Italy, Belgium chastised
on debt

The European Commission
yesterday formally
recommended that 11
European countries should
adopt a single currency from
1999, but central bankers
issued a sharp warning that
Italy and Belgium had not
done enough to reduce their

In its report on economic
convergence, the European
Monetary Institute, the
forerunner of the European
Central Bank, expressed
"ongoing concern" that the
two countries had made
insufficient progress to
reduce their debt ratio of
more than 120 per cent of
gross domestic product to an
agreed target of 60 per cent.

Wim Duisenberg, president
of the Emi, said the criticism
was not at odds with the
recommendation that the pair
qualify for economic and
monetary union.

All European Union member
states bar the UK, Denmark,
Sweden and Greece are
expected to join Emu next

If EU leaders follow the
recommendation, the single
currency zone will contain
almost 300m people and
account for 19.4 per cent of
world GDP and 18.6 per cent
of world trade.

Mr Duisenberg yesterday
hinted that a report from the
Bundesbank, the German
central bank, on Friday would
closely follow the Emi's line,
given that Hans Tietmeyer,
the Bundesbank president,
will have signed both

Mr Duisenberg's comment
was seen as a warning to
Germany not to deviate from
the finely calibrated judgment
that allows Italy and Belgium
to qualify for the single
currency, the euro, in spite of
reservations over their debt

Yves-Thibault de Silguy, EU
monetary affairs
commissioner, rejected
accusations that countries
had used accounting
gimmicks to manipulate
budget deficit figures to meet
the 1997 target.

Financial Times, March 26,

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:30 - ID#287338)
XAU Blasts though 80!!!
Gold Bear a no show. Rumor has it that the Gold Bear is in the locker room dieing

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:30 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Jed -- I don't believe that anything you said is far off the mark. Maybe not any off the mark. It's a big bad shame, but the 'conditions' are what they are.

GOOOOOOOO GOLD! 310 here we come. Let's at least get silver up to 6.50 today also. Platinum has only just begun the next leg up.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:32 - ID#227290)
Market Update
To all:

Gold is looking to close near its high today. But the big action is in the XAU. The index hit a new high for '98 today, breaking above the top established on the last two runups.
Also, the senior shares are outperforming the metal today, very bullish. Last Monday, you may remember that I voiced some concern that although the shares had been strong all day, once gold tacked on 5 dollars at the end of the day the shares didn't move up very much. The fact that they are leading today is quite positive.
The XAU is above 79 at this moment. The 200-day MA sits around 84. Shortly, e should see the first challenge of this since last October.

None of the Canadian exchanges is in the black today except Vancouver, which is only up a paltry amount. We're nearing month-end and year-end in Canada when all accounts have to be cleaned up and within margin requirements. No doubt this is causing some selling here and there.
But I think it will take a sustained move by gold above its 200-day MA to attract buyers en masse back into the exploration and development stocks. Of course, when that happens, many will double and triple in short order.

Happy trading,

The Preacher

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:33 - ID#255284)
LGB 11:00
It is the fault of the decent when they do nothing to prevent it. that is what society means. that is what community means.

Wasn't the Bronfman dynasty founded on running hooch across the US/Canada border during Prohibition?

( and wasn't that a strange time in the land of the free? )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:40 - ID#255284)
apart from one small item, i agree with your 10:39, why did you bite my head off?
that small item is the possession of guns. I know in the US you need them. I agree all should be taught gun safety and how to shoot, but, if you come down under, leave your guns behind. ;- )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:42 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Aurator -- The only way would have been to string 'em up to begin with. Unfortunately, the 'laws' won't allow it. Everything has been stacked against the decent. It will now run its course.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:44 - ID#31868)
Arkansas and the eventuate dialogue, outbursts etc. here about same.
the people of the town organized themselves pull quote from Aurator

This, read the above sentence again, now one more time, this, people is where it is at, the central, federal crap is destroying the fabric of society.

Plain and simple.

You are all right in parts.

The only reason the dirtbags are winning is because they understand this well, far better than the smaller communities they are destroying as a whole to create their lovely new world.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:46 - ID#410198)
Jed,prepare for the (buy gold).....hope for the best..(impeach babba)

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:47 - ID#340302)
...but the overall participation was still pretty narrow. Ergo, the gold shorts did not feel particularly nervous today.

On a fundamental basis, the most exciting development was the Bronfman family's significant investment in a pure gold play ( ROYAL OAK ) .

This development whipped up a great deal of excitement from Canadian investors...American investors -- most who are not familiar with the Bronfmans -- seem to have ignored the new development.

Over time, as the media disseminates info about the Bronfman's gold investment throughout America, then I think there will be greater participation from American investors. Soros, Buffett, Bronfman...who's next?

Naturally, the gold shorts and Dow bulls will unleash a plethora of new negative misinformation about gold. The smarter people on the forum will ignore the usual load of blather.

The mantra is simple...



(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:47 - ID#298259)
GOLD & PREC MINR INDEX ( Toronto:^TGL ) up 5.29% as of 2:44, been up all day.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:47 - ID#25171)
I agree with you on the spirit of your post. However I don't think that hell will break loose in the 3 to 6 months following a financial crisis.It will take much more time.
People will loose a lot in a financial collapse but not everything. For a sizable portion of the middle class to loose almost everything will take a few years and only then a civil crisis might erupt.
We, catastrophist/realistic have a tendancy to overestimate the people's propensity to venture into Revolution

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:48 - ID#255284)
again we agree. Real justice is still alien to our Western societies.

Justice should demonstrate cause and effect. The ancient Roman punishment for parricide was to be thrown into the Tiber, tied up in a sack with a snake and a monkey. Parricide was not common in Rome.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:49 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Robnoel -- Indeed, Buy Gold! But impeaching Klinton will only put the other idiot in the office. No help there.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:49 - ID#266105)
@bounced checks

Hey Aurator, big place. I been everywhere, man, breathed
the mountain air, man...

From the inner urban cores to furthestmost ruburbias
and podunks between. Hear a coupla bibbed boys in the next
blue-highwayed 3-calendar restaurant booth and their GPS
John Deere fertilizing, live commodity quotes w/candlestick
power & CD-quality satellite country music. Once worked my way
from ocean to ocean one Shell gas station at time putting up
satellite dishes and fairly recent. Big place, incomprehensible,
unknowable. Anything other is blowing smoke rings. Maybe
NZ is of a size and scope to even begin to get a handle.
Me, I reduce those mediated pixel down to the one they
represent in a day's world for the bazillion in the scan
lines they don't. Like, access denied, NananaNanana.

Here, price of corn headlines, there, predator control
and grazing issues. Like politics and real estate, all local,
parochial and provincial. Which is the only view that likes
to know something of America and Americans. Me & my fat rich
uncle of been everywhere just laugh.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:50 - ID#269313)
In the British movie "If", there is an almost identical scene involving shooting-up a school as people pour out a door. The movie recently showed up on cable after a long absence. Maybe this is where the kids got the idea.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:52 - ID#345176)
XAU is moving too fast!

XAU is moving way ahead of gold. I hope it lasts but I am getting suspicious. Any opinions?

Spud Master
(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:53 - ID#273112)
Arkansas is a tragedy.

But so are our inner cities.

We only seem to "care" about something topical. Reminds me of Clinton, rushing to any "tragedy" to show He Cares. Where's the camera?
I have to show I Care.
I have to show, I Care.
I have to stop and lay bricks, showing I Care.
I am One with Poor South Africans.
I have to show I Care.
I have to help clean up .... Washington D.C. housing projects?
I ... thhhhink .... I ... CCCccccccarrre.....

We forget the daily drive-by shootings in inner cities.

We even forgot already about the 200 Indians killed in yesterday's
tornados in India.

I didn't see ANY great outpourings of sympathy here for them.

Mista Norton, he dead.

The Hermit
(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:54 - ID#374232)
@ Allen(USA) - your 13:18
Thank you for your most kind comments. They are very much appreciated, I assure you.

Please, keep coming with the Y2k posts. It is a most serious business and does indeed relate to GOLD! IMVHO.

Also, continue on with your posts to ANOTHER and your analysis of ANOTHER's posts. The discussions revolving around ANOTHER's posts are always stimulating, to say the least, are they not?


The Hermit

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:54 - ID#286279)

Charles Keeling
(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:55 - ID#344225)
Did any of you hear anything further
about George Soros being active in the market
yesterday, and buying S & P 500 Puts?

This was first reported by CNBC Wednesday
morning. The market went down seriouosly
shortly thereafter.

Spud Master
(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:56 - ID#273112)

Do you mean Patricide?

Did the Romans have parrots? Norwegian Blues perhaps?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:57 - ID#255284)
that movie, "If" has stayed with me since i saw it when it was released 67?. Malcom McDowell's next "big" movie was Clockwork Orange. I think Stanley Kubrick directed them both.

Anthony Burgesse, English Don and author, has forbidden his Clockwork Orange to be shown in the UK for many years. Too many vicious criminals recalled the movie during their trials for copy-cat violence.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:58 - ID#244242)
The longer it takes, the more of a shot I and others who have seen the error of our financial ways have of paying off our debts in time. If it has to happen, let it come as far down the road as possible for our sakes and for other honest people caught up in a dishonest system.

Go Gold!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:59 - ID#286279)
Spud Master
I agree with most of what you are saying man, usually do. But that isn't aurator, you were too damn rough on him.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 14:59 - ID#368244)
Try that again

Yesterday I said that if gold stocks were an indication , we were most likely going lower. I just love it when I'm wrong.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:00 - ID#410198)
Eldorado/ 14.02 post....if this is where America is going buy gold and lots of it....
radio adds on Rush's show have increased 75% over last two weeks

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:02 - ID#255284)
I had to check my dictionary when you queried my use of the word "parricide", actually I spelled the word correctly. You may be getting confused with "parrocide" a word I've just coined to describe the offing of Norwegian blues.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:02 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Robnoel -- Yup, that's the 'toilet' its all going down in.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:08 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Myrmidon -- Gold generally lags the stocks maybe by as much as a day. Tomorrow will tell the story.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:09 - ID#32078)
buy signals
Gold up about 2.20, silver up about .18, Toronto gold index up +350 ( big ) , XAU over 80, up 6%+, two gold funds I follow are up significantly. US dollar down against yen, dmark. Long term bond rate up .08% in two days, now over 5.94% and holding. Almost every gold stock everywhere is up.

My computer signals are screaming 'buy'. Gold will have to catch up later. There is major buying going on in gold equities. Reminds me of Spring, 1993.

The Hermit
(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:10 - ID#374232)
@ kitkat - your 13:15 - Y2k
Exactly! Much time, money and effort is being ( or will be ) expended and what are we buying? Certainly nothing new - only the ability to continue as is. Certainly this will affect the corporate bottom-line ( earnings ) in a negative way.

Thank you for your comments!

The Hermit

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:11 - ID#25171)
SOROS bot 10000 S&P 100 puts ( OEX ) at the money april expiry .It is only 500 million dollars of underlying. So it is no big deal.However as I said earlier, he bot today 3 $ billions of 3month and 6 month 1.70 $ put DM calls .That's huge.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:12 - ID#31868)
Silver, Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Symbol Last Trade Change Volume
FSR.V 2:29PM 1.62 +0.22 +15.71% 40,700
SIL 2:40PM 12 1/4 +3/4 +6.52% 134,200
SSC 2:38PM 1 3/16 -1/16 -5.00% 1,176,500
SSRIF 2:28PM 3 3/4 -1/16 -1.64% 69,000
PAASF 2:45PM 9 7/8 +3/16 +1.94% 47,900

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:12 - ID#212197)
...sorry for confusing your handles in my earlier post. Thanks Sam for telling me. I'm happy my wife doesn't know about this because she always makes fun of me. She says, when I'm lost in my thoughts, not only do I confuse everything but I also don't hear when she is talking to me.
I think as long as I don't confuse the XAU with the DOW .....things should work out o.k.

Alberich the Dwarf

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:15 - ID#340302)
THE MOST ENCOURAGING ASPECT OF TODAY'S GOLD RALLY... the fact that skepticism about its sustainability remains very high. Talking to several fellow goldbugs and there is nothing resembling euphoria in this gold market best, maybe traces of hope but that's about it.

It will be interesting how the general public begins to react if they see sustained upward movement in the gold sector.

Conversely, the DOW crowd seems to revel in their euphoria cloud, categorically certain that DOW 9000 will occur by tomorrow at the latest.

We'll have to see.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:17 - ID#280245)
THE DOLLAR --mortis causa
Official IMF communique....

"...therefore an urgent need ... to ensure that the transition to a TRIPOLAR CURRENCY system proceeds with... international coordination to minimize instability in the exchange and capital markets>

USD ( ? ) ; Euro ( for sure ) and..Asian Currency Unit...or...SDR?

The meeting was attended by {excerpts];
Mr. Stefan Balabanoff, OPEC;
Mr. Enam A. Chaudhury, Islamic Development Bank;
Mr. Liu Jibin, People's Republic of China;
Mr. Mohamed Seqat, Morocco;
Mr. Hamad Al-Sayari, Saudi Arabia

Can you still buy gold?

Carpe Aurem
(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:19 - ID#339292)
@Myrmidon Re:XAU velocity
I believe the market values gold companies on a net asset value basis. As you know, gold companies do not reap 100% of their revenue from gold sales as profit. There are costs involved and the net asset value is derived from projected ( and discounted ) future cash flow which is calculated, roughly speaking, by subtracting "total cash costs" from POG. Therefore, when gold goes up by, say 1%, a company's margin - that has costs of $250 - can go up by 6%. The companies, especially now being so close to that line of profitability, are highly levered to POG and I think that could even exacerbate the situation.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:20 - ID#410198)
Babba,another"slut"comes forward Drudge/more bad news for Wall St.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:21 - ID#340302)
...the New York Times article re: Soros & Apex seems to have had little effect on the silver sector.

I guess too many silver investors were burned shortly after the Buffett announcement. Pro-silver media is not enough to excite them. They are looking for tangible, fundamental developments.

It will probably take a more dramatic event to move silver up...however,
the silver market again is far from euphoric.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:23 - ID#330175)
A little white house humor

One Sunday morning, Chelsea burst into the living quarters at the
House and said, "Dad! Mom! I have some great news for you! I am getting
married to the greatest hunk in Washington. He lives in Georgetown and
name is Matt."

After dinner, the President took Chelsea aside. "Honey, I have to
talk with
you. Your Mother and I have been married a long time. She's a
wonderful wife
but she's never offered much excitement in the bedroom, so I have
around with other women a lot. Matt is actually your half-brother, and
afraid you can't marry him."

Chelsea was heartbroken, but after eight months she eventually
dating again. A year later she came home and very proudly announced,
asked me to marry him! We're getting married in June."

Again her father insisted on another private conversation and broke
the sad
news. "Robert is your half-brother too, Honey. I'm awfully sorry about

Chelsea was furious! She finally decided to go her Mother and tell
"Dad has done so much harm. I guess I'm never going to get married,"
complained. "Every time I fall in love, Dad tells me the guy is my half

Hillary just shook her head. "Don't pay any attention to what he
Dear. He's not really your father."
Only the individual sender is responsible for the content of this
message, and the message does not necessarily reflect the position
or policy of the National Education Association or its affiliates.

Spud Master
(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:23 - ID#273112)
@Aurator & parricide
( putting down "Kemal Ataturk: The Man and His Times" )

So it is!

I assure you, though, there is no such thing as a fish license...

commiting solanicide in North Tejas

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:25 - ID#255284)
much as I'd like to stay, like alberich, my work gets in the way of real life passions, like watching maidens dance around piles of gold.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:27 - ID#426220)

1998's big play will be in the South African Gold Stocks.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:29 - ID#286279)
Yes, encouraging gold rally, but isn't it a little soon to be worried about euphoria? ;- )


(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:35 - ID#255284)
just don't tell A. Goose! Thanks for expanding my vocabulary. solanicide Vocabulary is the only "possession" that continues to increase throughout one's life. When first I read of that, I vowed to learn as many words as I could, hence I became aurator

good to see you again amigo, must work to support a gold habit.

Bully Beef
(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:38 - ID#259282)
Bronfmans must be hedging their bets then.
This would be bullish for gold. Could you imagine the advice they can afford? No net trades for them. Uh... could I have 160,000,000.00 worth of RYO please. Uh ...I'll put it on my VISA.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:43 - ID#317193)
vronsky-South African Stocks
Any guess on when? Mine didn't move today in the U.S. I agree, but thought I'd see SOME movement today. Oh well,time is on my side. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:44 - ID#345176)
@ Eldorado and Carpe Aurem

Thank you gentlemen for the analysis on the XAU. Although I am a partially technical follower, the fact that XAU penetrated the 80 level is good news. Hope that gold follows tomorrow.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:45 - ID#287338)
Japan Selling! XAU past 81
The Gold Bear is being given CPR. Tomorrow may be his last chance.

Funeral services are already being scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. All Gold Shorts are required to attend to pay your last respects.

Next door to the Funeral Hall at the Kitco Pub a long awaited party is being scheduled with the guest of honor to be the Great Gold Bull. All Gold Bugs are required to attend and welcome him back after his long rest.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:45 - ID#317193)
vronsky-South African Stocks
Any guess on when? Mine didn't move today in the U.S. I agree, but thought I'd see SOME movement today. Oh well,time is on my side. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:51 - ID#384350)
Lack of Gold Standard
Harry Schultz' comment that the lack of the gold standard was behind the decline of society and moral decay was first a bit hard for me to believe.

But as time goes on I am convinced he is right. The US has been in a state of decline ever since 1913.

I was surprised to see R Prechter echo this sentiment in a response on his billboard:

Aragorn III
(Thu Mar 26 1998 15:55 - ID#212323)
Come, Tonto, we have work to do...D.A.'s Fiat 101 (continued)
Some posters here find amusement in tracking the ever-increasing US National debt from day to day. It is no different than watching a keeps getting bigger and there is no way to stop it. UNLESS...the method of payment is changed. By now everyone should be aware that the private Federal Reserve is the money-making proxy for the USTreasury because it is illegal for the people's USGovernment to make money other than through a well-defined recipe of this much gold or that much silver ( in coin form, and denominated in DOLLARS ) . I will touch on the element that D.A. glossed over as it pertains to the growing and unpayable national debt.
As warranted by social, economic, and political conditions, ( and by the shortfall in taxes received vs. Govmt expenditures! ) the annual shortfall in the budget necessitates creating dollars out of thin air. But wait! Gold and silver don't come from thin air, hence the need for using Federal Reserve Notes ( denominated in dollars ) in lieu of real dollars.
Here's how it happens...The USGovmt does have the authority to borrow, so that's what it does--through the selling of Treasury bills to whomever will buy them. Of course, when they mature, more money is owed than the value for which they were sold, and that is the INTEREST on the National Debt. Historically, the Federal Reserve acted as the primary buyer, and the Federal Reserve Notes were printed as needed to purchase the Treasury Bills. The USGovmnt uses this "money from thin air" to pay for all of the programs in excess of its willingness to mug the taxpayers. This process continues year after year.
Eventually, some of the Treasury Notes come due and must be paid in full which includes the interest. Paying off these debts becomes just another one of the Govmnts many annual expenses. Let's leap forward to a point where the USNational Debt is say, FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS. All of the money--excuse me, GREENBACKS--circulating in the system were originally created via the process described above. A T-bill was sold by the USGov to the Federal Reserve. The Fed Res printed greenbacks in exchange for that T-bill which it now holds with the expectation that the greenbacks they printed will be paid back some future day WITH INTEREST.
Let me make my point clear with this example... If the USGov decided to settle the National Debt tomorrow, and they called in ALL of the GREENBACKS in the world, they would only have the money from the sale of the T-bills, with no greenbacks left to pay the interest. How can the Fed Reserve, as the sole source of greenbacks, expect to EVER get back more than created to begin with? This is where accounts and transfers using electronic money comes to the rescue. While the bull rages on Wall St., money is essentally being created independent of the Federal Reserve. Increasing valuations of stocks can be used as colateral on loans, and the banking system of fractional reserves is utilized to the fullest extent as EVERYONE now has sufficient collateral to obtain a invest in further raise valuations...
But, when the music stops, it becomes apparent the valuations were only gains on paper if you failed to sell at the top. Imagine the ensuing deflation of the balloon. All of those potentially taxable gains are gone ( the so-called "paper gains" ) and what is left at the end to pay back the T-bill? Greenbacks. Unless the method of payment is changed, the National debt can only get larger at a rate equal to the Weighted- average interest rate on all T-bills ever used to bring the greenbacks into the system.
The fix? The USGovmnt redefines the dollar as a gram of pollution. Barges head toward all foreign t-bill debt-holders, and a nasty pile appears on the doorstep of Federal Reserve Member banks' headquarters. Too unsavory? Might enrage foreign debt-holders? OK, then...redefine the dollar as equivalent to 0.001 grams of gold. The Debt could be settled in full using approximately 5,000 tonnes of the US gold reserves. Anyone holding gold could walk up to the USTreasury and they could then legally issue you a REAL dollar at a rate of 1,000 for every gram, or 31,103 for every ounce. And no future interest would be owed by the USGov for the 'minting' of this real money. The mechanics are debatable, but the principle is what the US was founded on.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:01 - ID#324266)
I, too, anticipate strength from the SA mines soon, but have been apprehensive about the political situation. Mr. Disney has said that the political climate there is stable. How is refining done there? The Mbendi page says that Harmony will be allowed to refine on its own. Is this a unique development?

Lurker 777
(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:01 - ID#317247)
Humble pie
Nice move in gold today. Looks like $300 is the floor.
It looks like I am wrong. YES! GO GOLD

Date: Wed Mar 25 1998 18:06
Lurker 777 ( BEAR with me please! ) ID#317247:
Today I bought some May 290 Puts for only $60 each. I have two weeks to break 290. Piece of cake, in the bag, no problem, a walk in the park, its a give me, Its ANOTHER sure thing, ANOTHER one bites the dust! Oh yea GO GOLD.

Date: Wed Mar 25 1998 19:45
Lurker 777 ( $285 by Wednesday ) ID#317247:
Kitco GOLD 298.65 299.15 -0.15 -0.05%

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:14 - ID#330175)
no JOKE here
On a farm out in the country lived a man and a woman and their three sons.

Early one morning, the woman awoke, and while looking out of the window
onto the pasture, she saw that the family's only cow was lying dead in the
field. The situation looked hopeless to her -- how could she possibly feed
her family now. In a depressed state of mind, she hung herself.

When her husband awoke to find his wife dead, as well as the cow, he too
began to see the hopelessness of the situation, and he shot himself in the

Now the oldest son, Greg, woke up to discover his parents dead ( and the
cow!! ) , and he decided to go down to the river and drown himself. When Greg
got to the river, he discovered a mermaid sitting on the bank. She said,
"I've seen all and know the reason for your despair. But if you will fu*k
me five times in a row, I will restore your parents and the cow to you."
Greg agreed to try, but after four times, he was simply unable to satisfy
her again. So the mermaid drowned him in the river.

Next the second oldest son, Rob, woke up. After discovering what had
happened, he too decided to throw himself into the river. When Rob got to
the river the mermaid said to him, "If you will fu*k me 10 times in a row,
I will make everything right." And while Rob tried his best ( seven
times!! ) , it was not enough to satisfy the mermaid, so she drowned him in
the river.

The youngest, Dave, woke up and saw his parents dead, the dead cow in the
field, and his brothers gone. He decided that his life was a hopeless
prospect, and he went down to the river to throw himself in. And there he
also met the mermaid. "I have seen all that has happened, and I can make
everything right if you will fu*k me 15 times in a row."

Dave replied, "is that all? Why not 20 times in a row? The mermaid was
somewhat taken aback by this request. Then Dave said, "Hell, why not 25
times in a row? And even as she was reluctantly agreeing to his request,
he said, "Why not THIRTY times in arow?" Finally she said, "Enough! Okay,
if you will have sex with me 30 times I will bring everybody back to
perfect health."

Then Dave asked, "Wait! How do I know that 30 times in a row won't kill you
like it did the cow?"
Only the individual sender is responsible for the content of this
message, and the message does not necessarily reflect the position
or policy of the National Education Association or its affiliates.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:15 - ID#339274)
FWIW,gold should top out early tomorrow morning and could make
another run on Monday to make the cycle complete.Happy trading

Aragorn III
(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:15 - ID#212323)
My good friend, Gianni
Yours was a coincidental but fortuitous prelude to my lengthy post. I hope mine serves to educate where knowledge is lacking as indicated in your excellent link.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:20 - ID#410194)
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released this afternoon:

Gold: Rose 3,108 troy ounces to 570,682

Silver: Fell 637,840 troy ounces to 88,631,442 -A new 18 year low!

Copper: Rose 78 short tonnes to 112,573

Also, let's not forget to closely monitor the North-American stock market indexes...for those who are observant with charts, a "little something" took place yesterday and these are the subtle signs that have good odds of going a long way sometimes.

Odds are still low that there is a top ( short or long term ) because of the magnitude and intensity of this bull market but as a trader, I never miss an opportunity to take notice of such events because the risk/reward ratio is extremely interesting.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:21 - ID#252150)
SDRer@"They have Postal Savings". We have something more unique--
Banks that are actually profitable. Took some profits on ABX today.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:24 - ID#20137)
Date: Thu Mar 26 1998 13:00
ChasAbar__A ( A Goose ) ID#340344:

Your right, my mistake.

$0.265 per pound or $0.43 for a 1pound 10 ounce package.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:28 - ID#280215)
OLD GOLD - Open Interest
Agree on the Open Interest issue. This looks different than in the recent past because of another indicator that I like to relate to the Open Interest, and that's volume.

In the past we have had a few rallys on falling Open Interest, where everyone starts to get a little excited, only to be let down by a violent reversal and new lows. The previous two times occurred from early SEP-mid OCT97 and early DEC-mid DEC97. In each of these cases, the rally was on Short-covering ( falling Open Interest ) . In addition, the volume was very low ( eg.. 8,000 or 12,000 ) . On low volume, the short-covering is simply the shorts taking some profits.

In this new scenario, the short covering has been on VERY HIGH volume ( eg.., 88,000 or 55,000 ) , indicating that this is more of a panic short-covering. This indicates a change in market tone. If we get more short covering on high volume, then this leads to prospective buyers noticing that the market tone has indeed changed. Then these prospective buyers become NEW buyers. This results in Open Interest rising and prices rising and then a sustained rally. If this keeps up on high volume, then you get major moves. My eyes will be on this issue the next few trading sessions.

By the way FWIW, Monthly, Weekly, and Daily indicators are ALL pointing up now at the same time. Using stochastics as an example, the Monthly fast line has crossed way above the slow and is heading up from the bottom-most level ( below 20 ) . It actually started up last month when prices were falling, but has gone up considerably now. Weekly stochastics are at about mid range, and heading up sharply, Daily is up near the weekly area with room to run. MACD histograms on all charts heading upward sharply. If we gap up tomorrow or Monday, then off to the races like the past silver rally. If no gap, I think we still go up, just slower and more modest. We still need to wait for a Weekly close with all indicators still pointing up to confirm that a reversal is not at hand. Happy trading!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:29 - ID#252150)
Jed@Your 14:23..You paint a very grim picture--You really need to lighten up.
Have you considered prozac?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:30 - ID#368244)
Computer Trading

I put a buy order in for 20000 shares of CAU, just checked and my order

was doubled. Same order number, but the second was followed by an

( A]. How in the heck did this happen, and is there anything I can do about it?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:30 - ID#269409)
@ must love the CLintons.....
Aurator, you said..... aurator ( ) ID#255284: LGB 11:00 It is the fault of the decent when they do nothing to prevent it. that is what society means. that is what community means.

You couldnt be more mistaken my ultra left leaning liberal friend. If we go back a few years...say 1950s or so. Prior to the Victim mentality days, prior to the They arent responsible for their actions days, prior to the Big Brother, Big Govt., Welfare State, It takes a village lunacy you liberals love so much... ( Hey Hillary, you check out any of those villages over there during the Africa trip? They aint exactly models of excellent child rearing... ) .

Anyway, if we go back to the 50s when the value system was spiritual morality, caring for ones family, staying married, teaching work ethics and responsibility....we simply didnt see a lot of mass murdering children now did we?

Now we read these horrible stories almost daily. Mothers murdering their kids. Kids killing each other for shoes ( or just for fun ) Why? Because good people dont care enough?

Nooooo, because liberal leftist whackos created a welfare state that encouraged mothers to become crack addicted welfare Queens who spit out babies and care less who or where the father is, or what their kids are up to. Or to take a different example, 2 working parent families whos need for a new Yuppie 4Wd vehicle, outweigh their desire to raise the children. ( Again, satisfying ME first and who cares about the kids? ) Yes its a bit generalized, but the overall concept is valid nonetheless.

The job of decent people is to teach their children how to be productive, responsible members of society. And to teach also by example. Thats a big enough task without the added responsibility of taking the blame for the deeds of the offspring of worthless parents. Thinking like yours created the societal ills we now face. A resurgence of decent spiritual/moral values, family values, and teaching PERSONAL responsibility is the way out.

More mindless blathering about Others being responsible for the deeds of evil men, will just lead to more of the same.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:35 - ID#269409)
@ Realistic...Silver
I luvs dat COMEX Silver drawdown...I surely does.....

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:36 - ID#339274)
LGB: 16:30
Right on!!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:38 - ID#225273)
I've been waiting to hear from you. That's a great report. I had noticed the monthly stochastics for gold and was going to mention it tonight.
Everything looks good right now. Maybe we'll go a long way.

The Preacher

John Disney__A
(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:40 - ID#24135)
Money'll tell you a story.
For Salty
"If" was directed by Lyndsay Anderson. You got Clockwork
right ... 50 % is better than zero. When did Anthony
Burgess add that "e" .. to his last name?? Who is he
trying to impress.
To all..
If there are people out there who still want to
talk about the political situation in RSA and are still
"concerned" about it, let me tell them that they
really dont deserve to make any money. Go and load up
on abx and ryo and eco and I'll see you later. Or load
up on Australians and face the likelihood of a big time
Indonesian scare in maybe 6 months ... 200 million
starving but well armed Indonesians would make me feel
a bit unstable.
It has always interested me that US gold investors
are "concerned" about RSA "stability" ( whatever that
means ) over the past 30 YEARS and havent noticed that
NOTHING HAPPENED. Also these same "well informed" gold
investors havent noticed that platinum ( 80 % from RSA )
have seen uninterrupted supply during all this
period. It shows what years of watching the idiot box
will do to people.
Vronsky has it right. This is the year of a general
rerating of RSA golds... BUT if you have doubts ....

John Disney__A
(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:40 - ID#24135)
Money'll tell you a story.
For Salty
"If" was directed by Lyndsay Anderson. You got Clockwork
right ... 50 % is better than zero. When did Anthony
Burgess add that "e" .. to his last name?? Who is he
trying to impress.
To all..
If there are people out there who still want to
talk about the political situation in RSA and are still
"concerned" about it, let me tell them that they
really dont deserve to make any money. Go and load up
on abx and ryo and eco and I'll see you later. Or load
up on Australians and face the likelihood of a big time
Indonesian scare in maybe 6 months ... 200 million
starving but well armed Indonesians would make me feel
a bit unstable.
It has always interested me that US gold investors
are "concerned" about RSA "stability" ( whatever that
means ) over the past 30 YEARS and havent noticed that
NOTHING HAPPENED. Also these same "well informed" gold
investors havent noticed that platinum ( 80 % from RSA )
have seen uninterrupted supply during all this
period. It shows what years of watching the idiot box
will do to people.
Vronsky has it right. This is the year of a general
rerating of RSA golds... BUT if you have doubts ....

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:41 - ID#257136)
Spud Master! Your 09:29 was a decided Masterpiece(No pun intended).
Aurator: I gotta go with Spud all the way on this one. I am one of those of whom he spoke: Behavioral Scientists. The lib b.s. of the past 1/2 century and more are decidedly and DIRECTLY responsible for the multiple tragedies which were enumerated in Spud's post.
Blame the cars which crash and kill. Blame the airplanes, ships ( titanic excepted ) blame the guns.
By all means, do not under any circumstrances, try to put responsibility for anti-social and anti-societal behavior where it belongs!! On the individuals guilty of it!
Don't try to hold politicians responsible. Nor teachers or preachers or parents. First responsibility lies with the ones who DO IT!!

I don't care!! I'm buyin' more!!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:47 - ID#340302)

Welcome Canada's BRONFMANS into the family of goldbugs. With a net worth of over 10 billion, what do you think their prospective gold purchases might total?


(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:47 - ID#244242)
I'm trying my friend! You should have heard me before I started taking St. John's Wort ( Poor Man's Prozac ) !!! Positively Paranoid :}

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:48 - ID#269245)
Since this is dump on Aurator day...
Please allow me to contribute:

- NOT!

What is the difference between a liberal and a conservative? By the looks of things on this forum, absolutely nothing! Just ignorance and unqualified accusations. I think I prefer to stay out of the way and just try to contribute to my community the best way I know how - I find a smile sometimes helps. ;- ) . Shine on, America! - c

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:49 - ID#20137)
Name, location Currency ( price ) weight
Isure, Louisiana Us$1.99 Pound
Bully Beef Canadian $ 7.03
Canadian $ 3.19 Kilogram
Lan Man, So. California US$4.95 pound
Quixotic, New Hamsphire US$3.79 Pound
Donald, eastern Connecticut US$2.99 Pound
Fummer,? US$2.99 Pound
Chas, Morganton N.C. US$4.29 Pound
John Dinsey 11.5 Rand
5.22 Rand Kilogram
Aurator Chose a better test substance.

Well, our test input is limited, but we have learned some information.

1. A better standard for comparison is needed.
2. Everyone needs to submit location along with price and measure.
3. A currency comparison can be made in this manner.

I would like to try this one more time, with the following changes.

1. Give me the cost in your local currency for Salt ( please give location country and city and weight measurement ) A.Goose Cupertino, California, USA US$ 0.1656 per ounce ( us$0.265 per pound ) .
2. E-mail the information to Salt>> You need to have a space between Salt and Std ( Salt ) .
3. We will collect data until we get a fair representation from countries around the world.
4. Using Salt should give us a good gauge for evaluting the value of various currencies around the world as compared to the US dollar.

Shall we try this??

Send your cost for salt to Salt , please give city. Country, cost in local currency and weight:
A.Goose Cupertino, California, USA US$ 0.1656 per ounce ( us$0.265 per pound ) ( us$2.65 for 10 pounds ) .


(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:49 - ID#342376)
Soros buying S&P Puts!!! Music to my ears!!!!!
Are the Japanese selling their T-bonds to cover a possible run on their banks? Any update on the latest in Japan?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:50 - ID#269409)
@ Carpe AUrum
Re your 14:01, I'm not making a STRONG case for higher Gold short term. What I was mentioning was that I am leaning more that way, because of;

a ) The big gains in Gold stocks today, yesterday
b ) Gold's flattening around $300 when past few months upticks have been erased almost immediately
c ) Other factors including resurging interest in Gold coin investment that I have been seeing in my "second" business this past couple weeks. ( A trend which began months ago but is now reaching a more feverish pitch )
d ) IMHO, we'll see no more MAJOR single CB Gold selling announcements ( 100 tons + ) in the near future until after the finalization of the EU backing issue takes place.
e ) Pre-inflation factors are beginning to loom, money supply can't grow at this rate forever without it.. ( unless all them dollars goe into equities! )

Also, the rising oil price, if the agreement holds, will help support Gold.

Oh yes, I almost forgot, there's some guru from ANOTHER planet, who holds diety status here at Kitco, and talks in riddles.He/she/it also feels that Gold will go higher in 5 to 10 days ( from 3 weeks ago! ) when some new major buyer emerges and changes this whole market into a "new" Gold market, where shorts will be rushing to cover and getting crushed...... COurse this last bit of data only factors as .0000000002 in my overall equation, but my THOUGHTS were, I ought to add it in as well, yes??

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:52 - ID#269245)
Allen, Alberich the Dwarf, and the rest concerning telecommunications and Y2K
Iridium/Motorola seems to be working up its own, isolated global network. They are so new that I am certain they have taken Y2K into account. Aside from power failures, do you think they may be protected?? - c

John Disney__A
(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:55 - ID#24135)
Whud he say?? whud he say now????
To 223
Yes .. I heard some goodies about deeps . I may know some
more in a week or so .. Ill write something if I do.
to LGB ..
While I agree with a lot of what you say in your soap box
oration to aurator ( and this is odd because I usually do not
.. agree with what you say that is ) I cannot find where the
Aurator said anything to bring on your outburst !!
Do you usually drive such small nails with such large hammers?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:57 - ID#341189)
Spud, aj, all ethicists on board
Now let me get this straight. Hold children responsible for their behavior. And their bad behavior is due to liberal ideas that surround them. Don't you kind of have to choose between these?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 16:57 - ID#32078)
Decent people

Without using the enthusiasm of LGB, I would like to remind you that your idea of some group of people being responsible to stop the bad guys can result in Fascism, where those in charge ( monarchy, dictatorship, or democracy ) decide that what the people are doing is not good for them and therefore the govt decides to correct the situation. History shows that this can be done by killing all the Jews ( Nazis ) , eliminating everyone with any bad education ( Cambodia ) , or cutting up another race ( Rwanda ) .

Of course these are the extremes, but is a direct result of 'decent' people in their own eyes, preventing the 'scum' from corrupting us all.

The Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution to prevent this. The price of freedom is the cost of living with someone else who doesn't believe like you do. Punishment and guilt should go to those who are guilty, not to the innocent.

Today's Liberalism can easily become terribly wrong, even with good intentions.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:03 - ID#288157)
A war being waged by the strategic deployment of "name" economics professors?

Paul Krugman in Hong Kong: "Dont un-peg the HK dollar from USD."
[Couldlnt get in to post this story and now it is gone...sorry]

One can not help but wonder: the Chinese have been very careful to say they would not DEVALUE the renminbi--they have NEVER said they would not REVALUE it.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:04 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 29.33

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:04 - ID#266105)
@Joe Bashu famed indian guide AND bait(& switch) dealer

clone -- liberal

pick one: I find _____ to be very broadminded,
always giving careful consideration
to both sides of the same side.

It gets so cornfusting, one on the left is in the middle,
the one on the right is on the left...

Like the end throes of the former Soviet Union---
lib/cons labels apparently reversed or sumpin. I guess
that in any given situation the 'liberals' are always
the good guys...and you can't go astray...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:06 - ID#269409)
@ Disney
You havn't read far enough back. Check the thread between Spud & Aurator & my ( and others ) earlier AM refutations of Aurators blathering...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:10 - ID#342282)
Clone- Iridium
Can you or anyone tell about a market for Iridium. It's a member of the platinum group and can have rare gold alloys. From my experience, ther's hardly 1% of assayers and maybe a little more of metallurgical "sperts" that have dealt with it. Many thanx for clues,

Aragorn III
(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:10 - ID#212323)
LGB Your 16:30...did you check your brain at the door?
Your logic failed you this time in your chastisement of dear Aurator. You argued full circle and ultimately supported his point. Allow me to refresh your memory: LGB wrote--

Aurator, you said..... aurator ( ) ID#255284: LGB 11:00 It is the fault
of the decent when they do nothing to prevent it. that is what society
means. that is what community means.
You couldnt be more mistaken my ultra left leaning liberal friend.[blah blah blah......]
[...blah blah...concluding with]
Thinking like yours created the societal ills we now face. A resurgence
of decent spiritual/moral values, family values, and teaching PERSONAL
responsibility is the way out.

Come now, LGB, is not your last sentence the VERY foundation or definition of 'society' or 'community'? Without it we have no society or community. You stand in aurator's shoes, yet you know it not. Perspective is the only diference. Aurator sees the sea of humanity, you see only your family and friends.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:12 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .268

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:13 - ID#269409)
@ Silver and SSC
Anyone else notice that SSC was running down 5% all session until final hour when it rose to a PLUS 5% closing at 1 5/16??

made me happy as I bought a 5,000 shares at 1 1/8 BUT more importantly, I think some other some other investors are getting suddenly bullish on the Silver once again. Might have been the COMEX drawdown today, but whatever the reason...keep it "up" silver! ( As UP all night Rhonda Shear would say... )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:15 - ID#269409)
@ Aragorn
Thanks Hillary for that word of clarification, now I finally understand my TRUE position.... My family and friends are not to be any more important to me than the crack house residents on the other side of town...I get it now, thanks.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:16 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 47.13

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:17 - ID#288157)
On another GOLD battlefield
Dnya, Thur Mar 26 1998

New Encouragement Decree in Force**
The new encouragement decree, was published at the Official Gazette. The decree, prepared in accordance with Turkey's international obligations, revokes CASH SUBSIDIES.

*and WHO makes cash [gold] subsidies --read capital investments of an Islamic kind?
Dnya, Thur Mar 26 1998

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:20 - ID#238295)
Straddler: Your comments on open interest and trading volume make a lot of sense to me.

Bottom line -- declining open interest as prices rise in the early phase of an upmove is bullish if trading volume is heavy. But in time we want to see open interest rise along with prices as new longs come in.

John Disney__A
(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:21 - ID#24135)
Salted Goose ?? sounds dog gone tasty !
For a goose
Ill play your salt game MR goose, BUT my chicken comes
in at US$ 1.05 per pound which tears the hell out of US
prices .. So when you make a pile in RSA golds .. come out
of it with RSA BONDS at 13 % ( at 6% inflation ) for
1.13/1.06 = 1.066 = 6.6 real yield, and watch the ( implicitly )
gold backed currency strengthen. Or
Pardon me if I dont follow that thread .. I think Ill
follow that big yeller taxi..

bernatz du ventadorm
(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:21 - ID#182192)
Cherrypee, you've got me scared
Please don't take credit where none is due.
You didn't reveal my identity last time,
you couldn't even identify your real father
if it came down to it. You have no ability
to out me. I chose to out myself when I no
longer had any need for the UNC system by
responding to a fawning e-mail from aurophile
he had mailed me five months before.

John Disney - You are the only one who constantly
bemoans the loss of Bernatz's identity. If I
did "steal" the gold call, you can be glad I didn't
steal if from you, when you were calling a
reversal at $350. Don't be a sore loser.
You left your homeland because you didn't fit in.
Try to stop running away and hiding behind handles
and just own up to making a really stupid call.
Practice this:

I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.
I don't care. I am an idiot like Cherrypee.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:23 - ID#26793)
They have also never said that they would not inflate. I think that these very expensive public works projects will be done with printed money. The market will take care of the devaluation for them without any governmental action on their part.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:29 - ID#26669)
Larryn_A re bill of rights, LGB re Sunshine
This might clarify things further: Note this copy includes the Preamble;

LGB Happy to see you're back into Sunshine. And its good to see its rise may coincide with my June sell target ( revised due to the changes in the repressive fascist US capital gains tax laws ) . NOMB but is this from within a retirement account, so you can trade without immediate tax implications?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:29 - ID#257136)
Aurator: Pardon my usage re: the New Arkansas Tragedy. I just happen to live in AR.
I am a Scoutmaster of several boys, none of whom have a strong male role model outside of the Church and schools.
Even these "tuf li'l munkees" were appalled by the event in Jonesborough.

I venture to state the positive affect of the Church and Scouting is beginning to instill positive principles in the lives of what could otherwise become more of the same.
Lookin' back @ ol' b.j.s beginnings and home life, I am pleased he on;y went into politics 'stead of the Mafia! ( :+^} ) [
His was definitely a dysfunctional family!
Spud: There are several words denoting one who mhas killed his/her father ( Lizzy Borden ) . One of them is Parricide.
The liberals have had their day and my heartfelt prayer and fond hope is that we all can live long enuf to see them all made to procure HONEST employment.
I don't care!! I'm still buyin'. ( as I can ) Damned little!
We who consider ourselves to be decent have for too long obeyed the laws which penalize propriety and honor.
We might in future have to begin obeying a higher law. That which defines defense as doing what needs to be done to preserve Freedom!!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:30 - ID#210194)
chas - Iridium (the metal), some info for you
After several years of a downward trend, prices of iridium and ruthenium picked up in 1996. Iridium demand, boosted by Japanese automaker Mitsubishis use in autocatalysts and BP Chemicals development of a new iridium-based catalyst system for production of acetic acid, more than doubled in 1996, pushing producer prices from around $60/oz at the beginning of the year to $95/oz by December. Prices continued to rise in early 1997, peaking at $200/oz in February but retreated to $165/oz. Future price levels hinge on Mitsubishis demand as the new catalyst has yet to meet the emissions limits and durability requirements of other countries.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:31 - ID#217268)
General Question
As an infrequet contributor, I should know this. Can I ask the group to help me understand the symbol ( F* ) ?? Thanks.

Aragorn III
(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:32 - ID#212323)
LGB you are not yourself today
You are a bit slow ( which is out of character for you, my errudite chap ) , so no time will I allow for you in my thoughts beyond this comment:
Your friends and family will avoid becoming "that crackhouse across town" because you act as a microcosmic society/community. When everybody functions as you profess within their own microcosms, the ills of mankind fade one by one. Unless we have clan wars between microcosms, but because they all have adopted your scheme of personal responsibility and moral/spirital values, that won't happen. Suddenly everyone finds that they are reading from the same page...society or community is the name for it. And it all begins in the manner you profess. The result can be described as aurator stated.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:33 - ID#402260)

Ring... Ring... Bronfman,Soros and Buffet. May I help you?'s me again..... I was wondering if there were still any

openings in any of your departments... I mean ...I'll take just about

anything you have available.......please....please....just let me come in and talk to somebody. .. I'm sorry Mr. Greenspan but I've been instructed to stop accepting any more of your calls. The inflation rate

is enough of a reminder around here without your help Thank you very

much.......didn't you invest in PM's like we told you...Huh...HUh?

I have to go and quit calling!



John Disney__A
(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:33 - ID#24135)
Oh one of little imagination ..
For heprat the undesirable

I dont make "calls"
I dont steal monikers
I would never steal "calls" from my MOM like you do.

Practice this
say it forever ..
Do you even know who Bernatz was ??

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:36 - ID#342376)
Why I invest in Gold........
There have been a few comments today on the shootings of the schoolchildren by schoolchildren. We have all witnessed a "deterioration" of society in general. I believe the answer to why is many fold. One being the unraveling of the educational system. Another, I believe is the overuse of technology. My father who was a brilliant man and quite a scholar of Heiddegger told me that the most evil man of this century was not Hitler but Henry Ford. He would tell me that if there were no cars, I wouldn't be living 2 hours away by car. I would be living a ten minute walk from him. In essence, we would be closer. The second evil of this century he would say is Television. A passive medium that kills imagination and spirit. I can see that it has influenced by life. The third and worst evil is the computer. Kids today are very computer savy but don't know how to socialise with each other. I know many parents who say their kids don't play anymore but are on the computer which is not any real relationship. It is an imitation of one and a bad one at that. Our whole society is becoming imitations of imitations. There is no substitute for a direct one on one relationship. Computers in schools? What a joke. Half of school is socialization. Internet cafes? A live person is next to you but you don't talk to them, your attention is to the monitor. Enough on technology. The other aspect is Education. I believe the educational system in this country was deliberately allowed to degenerate after the late sixties when an excellent educational system produced a generation of individuals that rebelled against it. In the early 70's you saw grammer schools with programs that allowed kids to take their shoes off with carpeted rooms and be more "free". The effects of this are just beggining to unfold. we have lost are spiritual center and it must play out unfortunately. It won't be pretty. That's why I invest in Gold.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:36 - ID#269409)
@ Barnatz du Hepcat
Bernatz, Kindly confine your posts to the high level of thoughtful, articulate, discourse we see from the more respected and genteel members of the Kitco community. If you need an example, may I provide this gem of on topic wisdom from last evening, posted by one of the more valuable contributors to the forum..... Cherokee....

Date: Wed Mar 25 1998 23:02
cherokee__A ( swat ) ID#287358:

hep-rat---- had no idea packing meant is a preparatory event..thursday bub...
lgbito--you belong in bed with the rat-man....imagine....

young hepbito's running around the house....what a sight...
and smell...phew...stinky-cat-the-mad-at-the-world-kitty-kat....
behave, else another flaming-cyber-arrow will pierce thine spine...
as did the one at unc!; )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:37 - ID#368244)
LGB ref. Your 1630
I agree with you completely. Lack of moral values, is a direct result of the break down of the family unit. The majority must be brought down to the

level of the minority. Every time I hear a kid say [naw], or [yah], I would like to belt him in the mouth. So many activist groups that are always concerned, about things that don't amount to squat.

Kids need a mom and dad, a team that is united when it comes to family matters. Most parents don't spend enough time around their kids to know

them as well as most friends.

But most of all the government needs to keep their noses out of the family

circle. God knows, If you want something really screwed up, just let the

the know - it -alls get involved with any thing.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:43 - ID#17796)
bernatz-such civility
Yesterday shyness and today such civility. Take care to not tarnish your reputation. I posted a query to you yesterday regarding Japan and China. Any THOUGHTS? Considering the hatred between these nations can their dislike for the West bind the open wounds? Does gold do the binding? Any discussion from you on this subject? Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:43 - ID#238295)
Interesting that this rally comes 2 days after Venneroso's conference call. He had forecast that POG would regain all its 1997 losses by year-end. This emerging bull still has a LONG way to go.

Time to repeat an assertion I made here recently. The gold bull will commence before the end of the stock bull. But the period of overlap will be very narrow -- a few months at most. So if this is the real thing as looks very likely, the dipsters and the CNBC crowd are going to get their heads handed to them by summer at the latest -- yes?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:44 - ID#238295)
Interesting that this rally comes 2 days after Venneroso's conference call. He had forecast that POG would regain all its 1997 losses by year-end. This emerging bull still has a LONG way to go.

Time to repeat an assertion I made here recently. The gold bull will commence before the end of the stock bull. But the period of overlap will be very narrow -- a few months at most. So if this is the real thing as looks very likely, the dipsters and the CNBC crowd are going to get their heads handed to them by summer at the latest -- yes?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:45 - ID#238295)
Interesting that this rally comes 2 days after Venneroso's conference call. He had forecast that POG would regain all its 1997 losses by year-end. This emerging bull still has a LONG way to go.

Time to repeat an assertion I made here recently. The gold bull will commence before the end of the stock bull. But the period of overlap will be very narrow -- a few months at most. So if this is the real thing as looks very likely, the dipsters and the CNBC crowd are going to get their heads handed to them by summer at the latest -- yes?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:47 - ID#238295)
Interesting that this rally comes 2 days after Venneroso's conference call. He had forecast that POG would regain all its 1997 losses by year-end. This emerging bull still has a LONG way to go.

Time to repeat an assertion I made here recently. The gold bull will commence before the end of the stock bull. But the period of overlap will be very narrow -- a few months at most. So if this is the real thing as looks very likely, the dipsters and the CNBC crowd are going to get their heads handed to them by summer at the latest -- yes?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:48 - ID#238295)
Interesting that this rally comes 2 days after Venneroso's conference call. He had forecast that POG would regain all its 1997 losses by year-end. This emerging bull still has a LONG way to go.

Time to repeat an assertion I made here recently. The gold bull will commence before the end of the stock bull. But the period of overlap will be very narrow -- a few months at most. So if this is the real thing as looks very likely, the dipsters and the CNBC crowd are going to get their heads handed to them by summer at the latest -- yes?

bernatz du ventadorm
(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:51 - ID#182192)
John Wacky Disney - You don't make calls
or you can't make calls? I would say your
"Cover of Barron's perfect contraindicator"
post when gold was at $350 was a call.

Just because you made 10 bad predictions in
a row doesn't allow you to go into hibernation
and say "I don't make calls" so as to try and
cover up all the bad calls you made in the past.
You ran away from home, you run away from
previous mistakes, you hide behind handles.
Pattern emerging?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:52 - ID#288157)
4. How Chinese say no and telling what one wants to hear

When asked for a favor, Chinese will usually avoid saying no, as to do so causes embarrassment and loss of face. If a request cannot be met, Chinese may say it is inconvenient or under consideration.

China has said, clearly and firmly, that it will NOT DEVALUE.
It will, however, REVALUE.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 17:54 - ID#26669)
Mr. Disney, thanks; R.J. You noticed that phenomenom, too?
If anyone is intereste these are South African ADR's I follow. Note the list today is in ascending order of their percentage price change today.

R.J. I could comment a great deal on your observations. IMHO you are right re the effects of the sexual revolution, lack of parenting and lack of role modeling. ( I wonder how much of it though is directly attributable to the Federalization of common law. You can catch someone in the act of mayhem with dozens of eye witnesses, but can't punish them until you spend 5 years dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's for Federal reviewers. Might point out for the non US readers that Arkansas schools laws were overturned at Federal gunpoint 40 some years ago and have been involved in endless supervision since. )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:00 - ID#269409)
@ Isure...aj
A hearty "amen" once again to both your posts. What it takes to build community and society is quite simple. Two caring, moral, pro-active, decent, involved parents for every child.

bernatz du ventadorm
(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:04 - ID#182192)
Tom, I didn't answer the question
because the question makes no sense.
I think you should direct it to Vronsky, who has
some guru on call who used to post long polemics
on Kitco about the Far East collapse.
Goldbugs follow the "If all you have is a hammer"
rule. You, I'm sure, are familiar with that
rule, about how everything looks like a nail.
Everyday, goldbugs use every natural disaster,
opinion poll, release of government data, editorial,
election, erection, ejection, rejection, and
projection to bolster their view that "Thus,
it follows that gold has to rise immediately and
stratospherically." I have mentioned numerous
times on this site and others how much credence
I lend to fishing for facts to support your view,
rather than allowing the extant facts to shape
your view. I have also said numerous times how
no event outside of the U.S. is going to significantly
impact the price of gold in a positive way. This
isn't being U.S.centric, it's just stating a fact.
Silver's recent rise was tied to what specific event?
The increasing demand in India that was posted here day
after day after day after day for months on end while
silver remained below $5.50? Wrong. Gold's
rise will be tied to Japan dumping U.S. Treasuries?
Wrong. While the problems of Japan and China are
certainly not something I would suggest government
leaders around the world should ignore, their impact
on the price of gold in the next three months can
be summed up in three words - none and none.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:06 - ID#288157)
Notes on the margin--Socit Gnrale de Surveillance (SGS)
Socit Gnrale de Surveillance ( SGS ) does business in 140 countries.
What currency would best serve them?

1 ) They can not use any commodity currency that is traded in the market because they are unwilling to assume the market risk.

2 ) They can not use any commodity currency that is traded in the market because they are unwilling to assume the high cost of hedging.

3 ) They will use the Special Special Drawing Right.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:09 - ID#376309)
Re: Date: Thu Mar 26 1998 16:28 Straddler ( OLD GOLD - Open Interest ) ID#280215:

Just remember that we have switch activity going on this week. Meaning traders are rolling out of April and into June gold so the volume is going to be much higher than normal this week.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:16 - ID#269409)
GOLD Numismatic conditions (current)
From weekly CDN ( Coin Dealer Newsletter )

Gold and Dollars Attract Bidders

Availability Is The Biggest Problem Facing Dealers

The sight-unseen rare coin market is not only doing very well, but it is gaining momentum. Dealers tell us that the demand for coins is increasing. It is increasing to the point that dealers are facing
difficult problems trying to accommodate their customers. Dealers say that their customers want coins that are reasonable. They are willing to accept coin's sight-unseen, slabbed by the grading
services as long as they do not get something that's a real surprise. If a coin has a blatant or severe mark that has somehow overlooked by one of the grading services, it becomes less
salable. However, buyers expect their dealers to inform them about any nasty hits or marks on the coin before they ship it to them. Dealers are careful when buying coins. They try not to buy a coin
that has the potential of becoming a problem. They do not make money if the coin remains in their inventory for a considerable amount of time. Also, they do not appreciate tying up funds that
could be better spent elsewhere. However, the biggest problem facing dealers today is the availability issue. Dealers are in desperate need of fresh material. They need coins for their customer
demand as well as their depleted inventories. They are traveling to more shows, around-the-country in search of material. Their travels are taking them to some smaller, less known shows. They
hope that these shows will offer some assistance to their problems. Unfortunately, even the smaller shows are not enough to satisfy this demand. Nice coins are selling quickly and the
temptation to resell the coin wholesale for a small profit is great. However, many dealers are taking these coins home for resale to their customers.

Gold is one area that is particularly hot in sight-unseen trading. Dealers tell us that generic Gold in all denominations is very strong in Mint State 60 through
MS-62 grades. The most sought-after denominations are the $5, $10 and $20 Gold series. Collectors want the Coronet, Indian Head and Saint-Gaudens
designs. They want quantities of many dates. Dealers could be completing many deals if they can only obtain the coins. Dealers say that they have several
customers eager to buy common date Gold coins in quantity. It is not only the common dates that's attracting all the attention. Demand for Charlotte and
Dahlonega Mint Gold coins are very salable at current levels. Again, the availability problem is the culprit. Carson City and New Orleans Mint scarce date
Gold coins are equally strong. If dealers can locate the dates that their customers need, the sale becomes imminent. Philadelphia and San Francisco Mint
Gold coins are receiving the least demand. However, high quality examples are realizing increasing Bids, especially for $20 Liberty's and Saint-Gaudens.
The demand for coins is so strong that an increasing number of coins are selling on the Internet.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:18 - ID#26793)
Ecuador devalues. President complains. Officials resign.

Charles Keeling
(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:19 - ID#344225)
The mysterious F* comes from one
of our excellent posters here who is known

Lurk around long enough, and he will entertain
you with his unique brand of humor.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:23 - ID#333232)
Pyramid F*
I believe that F* represents "Farfel the Unpronounceable" FWIW.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:24 - ID#288295)

F* = a symbol representing the Kitcoite once known as farfel ( The Unpronounceable ) , in a previous incarnation.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:24 - ID#288157)
Intergovernmental Group Group of Twenty-Four on International Monetary Affairs

2. Ministers recognized that globalization brings both opportunities and risks; presently, it appears that these are unevenly distributed because of imperfections in factor and product markets. A more equitable distribution of benefits and mitigation of risks require careful management of public policies and coordination of national policies dealing with markets, as well as stronger international support for improvements in infrastructure and human resources in developing countries.

3. The consequences of introducing the single currency as a result of EMU are bound to be far-reaching for the international monetary system. There is therefore an urgent need for the IMF to exercise leadership to ensure
******that the transition to a tripolar currency system*******
proceeds with much closer international coordination to minimize instability in the exchange and capital markets and to enhance the prospects for global prosperity. There are major implications of EMU for Fund surveillance, and it is important to ensure that the current, undesirable asymmetries in the application of surveillance are not further intensified by the advent of EMU.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:26 - ID#17796)
Interesting response. I tend to disagree because Japan is between a rock and a very hard place. I'm no goldbug. I simply see Japan needing to assure that yen is not converted to $US and shipped to the US. Something will be done by their government. Whether it is effective is, of course, another question,eh. China, no less, has similar banking problems yet plans on spending huge sums of money. Where this comes from is unknown. Once again something will be done by their government-effective or not. Thanks for your thoughts. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:26 - ID#201238)
gold has bottomed!
I have confirmation of the bottom of the gold market. I just received my March copy of Engineering and Mining Journal which has a picture of the sinking Titanic on it with the caption "GOLD once thought unsinkable" This is absolutely the perfect contrarian indicator!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:26 - ID#26793)
New blood at next FOMC meeting has them guessing on outcome

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:30 - ID#30116)
Stillwater and Johns Manville
Don't know if anyone posted this yet...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:34 - ID#26793)
Silver market to remain robust for several years.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:34 - ID#30116)
On the death of gold....
I listened to a radio program last night that featured an interview with an economist. Some kind of mumbo jumbo about a new world of investing and values... and how gold was dead and buried, forever... Talk about a contrarian indicator! Oh yes, the typical mantra about the FED in perfect control, etc., etc. ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:35 - ID#342376)
I agree with your post. The Japanese cannot let that money end up in the U.S. The way to solve that problem would be for them to sell their US T-bonds now and in the next few days and that may begin to unravel the US Markets and the dollar. Then, when April 1 hits, people won't get abord a ship that may have started to sink.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:40 - ID#269409)
New Korean Loan
hursday March 26, 5:56 pm Eastern Time

World Bank approves $2 bln loan for South Korea

WASHINGTON, March 26 ( Reuters ) - The World Bank approved a $2 billion loan for South Korea on Thursday and said the money
would help strengthen the banking sector and lay the foundation for strong and sustained economic growth.

``We are impressed by Korea's willingness to do everything it can to revive its economy and get things back on track,'' World Bank
President James Wolfensohn said in a statement. ``This loan is a further signal of our confidence in the country's direction, drive and

The new loan, to be released in a single tranche, brings World Bank funding for South Korea to $5 billion since last December, when
the once-booming economy won international help to resolve the problems caused by a crashing currency.

The World Bank will contribute $10 billion to a $60 billion international rescue deal for South Korea and Wolfensohn said on
Wednesday that $5 billion could be handed over this year.

The World Bank said the new loan would help South Korea strengthen the banking sector's regulatory framework and lower the risks
facing domestic banks. The money would also be used to improve corporate reporting standards and finance efforts to make the labor
market more flexible.

``The World Bank's program is designed to support Korea's strategic priorities in the wake of the crisis ... through a program of
structural reforms that would lay the basis for Korea's eventual return to high and sustainable growth,'' a bank statement said.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:44 - ID#26669)
Is gold dead?
DARN! I was in the public library a few days ago, by the periodical shelf and there was an array of magazines including Forbes, Fortune, Money and the like. One ( I forget which ) with a photo of a man with a green parrot on his shoulder caught my attention. It had a caption "Is Gold Dead?" I was short of time and left without reading it. So now I'll never know!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:46 - ID#288157)
At the 9/97 meeting in Hong Kong, Group of 24 said SPECULATORS played a role in crisis...
2. Growth prospects in Asia are being affected by the adverse shock to the dynamic South-East Asian region resulting from the
recent turmoil in financial markets and by the effects of this turmoil on Japans recovery, given that this region provides large
markets for Japans exports and capital. While recognizing that domestic policy weaknesscontributed to this crisis,

"Ministers EMPHASIZE the need to acknowledge the role of SPECULATIVE activities and other factors in the EXTERNAL environment that provided
the backdrop against which the financial crisis spread,

through contagion effects, to a number of countries both within and
outside the region, including those with SOUND macroeconomic fundamentals. Ministers underline the need to explore the
interplay of domestic and external factors in the onset and containment of crises."

So, the MOPS are working an issue. Of what are they SO AFRAID?
WHY is it necessary to destroy and humilate the Asean community?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:49 - ID#26793)
Sumitomo Bank exits the U.S.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:51 - ID#26793)
If you have any dead gold you can send it to me. I will give it a decent burial. No charge.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 18:57 - ID#233278)
I have enjoyed the comments in this group for a couple of months,and I really use a lot of what I find here for my studies.
I would very much like to know if anyone know some of the sales dates of CentralBank gold sales from the last couples of years?
Even if you don't know all the dates,some of them will be appreciated.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:03 - ID#280245)
Sumitomo Bank to sell California unit for $4b
TOKYO: Sumitomo Bank announced on Thursday it would sell its California unit to Zions Bancorporation of the United States for US$546 million ( HK$4.25 billion ) .

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:03 - ID#253153)
Gold Bull Standing On 2 Legs
Today with the XAU breaking above 79 the first part of the equation is solved. We need Gold to break above $320 to confirm to Bull Market.
I hope we will get it soon. With political chaos spreading in Japan,South East Asia , Africa , Middle East ( oil declining ) and South America the Gold move is gathering steam. As deflationary pressures intensify
( forget about inflation ) money will move towards Gold for SAFETY.
This move in Gold will astound you. As defaults begin, uncertainty will grow. The sooner Deflation idea sinks into your PSYCHE, the better emotionally you will be prepared for the coming events. Deflation is hard to swallow but you have to be prepared for it. Life still goes on . In due time the storm will blow away.

The Hermit
(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:10 - ID#374232)
@ jonesy - your 13:09
A very good post, Sir!

Your words, "My overriding motive for my relatively meager investment in gold is the hope that I can be there, in those days, for them."

Very good words indeed and they speak volumes! There are many of us in a similar position, I am sure. Thank you!


The Hermit

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:12 - ID#280245)
BWIs--Having discovered, at last, that BWIs are "Bretton Woods Institutuions"
does anyone just happen to know a bona fide "Bretton Woods institution,
offhand? Thanks.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:12 - ID#28939)
@JP and others

As always the gold stocks lead the way, bullion to follow, breakout today as well on the TSE gold and silver index. First stop 8,000. Go gold. US$ looked weak today, could break out of it's triangle formation as gold has broken out on the upside. Should see acceleration soon.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:16 - ID#26793)
Earn 12.54% on your U.S. dollars in Brazil

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:18 - ID#210235)
@Don't forget the Clinton scandals
It's been a sad and busy day, but what will probably affect the markets is the new voice joining the chorus about BC. This woman get the "ovaries of iron" award, speaking out in full knowledge she'll be the next victim of the damage control smear machine. The story is tucked away above the headlines, and you will probably have to scroll up to find it.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:19 - ID#280245)
VI. UN and BWI Collaboration
15. Ministers note the recent adoption by the General Assembly and the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations of several resolutions relating to the need to strengthen the relationship and collaboration between the UN and the Bretton Woods institutions, at both the intergovernmental and secretariat levels. Ministers express the view that the idea of organizing an international conference with a broad agenda on the financing of development is timely, and to assure its success, this should be a joint endeavor of the United Nations and the Bretton Woods institutions.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:20 - ID#26669)
Donald_A..If my gold dies, I'll bury it myself! BTW here's a couple of links from Fortune

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:24 - ID#280245)
The Group of Twenty-Four is chaired by the President of the Central Bank of Venezuela
Is it possible that the BWIs could be the central banks of the world?
Or a cadre of central banks?
What other entity makes fiscal sense in the BWI role?

If the above is plausible, then the role of MIGA is truly AWESOME--

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:28 - ID#288295)
Big Bang for Gold in Japan

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:34 - ID#280245)
ING to close London derivatives unit
FT Wed Mar 25 1998 [Just came, what can I say {:- ( (

"The shake up precedes next week's announcement of 1997 results by ING
the Dutch parent financial services group. It follows a cut last month in Barings' activities in Latin American and tensions over 1997 staff bonuses.
The bank also announced a structure to improve management accountability."
Of all banks, one would think ING had sufficient reason to be very aware of "management accountability"!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:35 - ID#238295)
If Bronfman family is indeed entering the gold market via Royal Oak this is very bullish indeed. They are one of the richest and most powerful Jewish families and carry a lot of clout in the global Jewish community.

I have earlier opined that one of the problems with the gold market these last few years was that the Jewish elite -- with centuries of historical involvement in this area -- had all but abandoned it. But if big Jewish money ( and Jewish money is almost always smart money ) is coming back in, this is very very positive. More positive even than if someone like Buffett entered.

Glenn; Thanks for the info re: trading volume and traders rolling over from one month to another!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:42 - ID#288295)
SDRer @ Bretton Woods Institutions

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:48 - ID#348286)
@USAGOLD - Maybe something significant in the works?
Hmmmm..... Why is open interest on the Comex quietly declining?
Are the well connected shorts quietly covering while the other suckers
are coralled for the slaughter????

MARKET UPDATE ( 3/26/98 ) AM----


The same source that informed us of the Buffett silver purchases before they were publicly announced called today to inform us of the following. ( This man is well connected. )

First: Something's brewing in Japan having to do with their fiscal year end and the stimulus package to bolster their economy. That something has to do with the re-arrangement of reserves to reflect the new realities in the international monetary system and will be announced around April 1, 1998. This probably has to do with Japan's reaction to the new euro and ECB ( European Central Bank ) . It is unclear whether or not the package will have to do with gold directly, but we are told that it will have a great effect on gold. We know that the LDP ruling party in Japan has come out publicly in favor of a yen-based Asian currency system that would give Japan a central role.

Second: This source tells us to watch oil carefully. At this writing it is up 71. There will be a strong attempt to talk oil down and keep investors from speculating in that arena -- but oil, he says, is going much higher. This ties in with the forecast and analysis of ANOTHER as published in the booklet, "In the Footsteps of Giants: The Gold-for -Oil Deal that Could Rock the World's Financial Centers." The strength of oil will shock the markets.

Third: This source tells us that insiders are now convinced that gold is going to the $340-$360 area within the next 30 days. His own chart analysis is telling him that it was significant for gold to go through $300.50 and must now go through $303 to confirm a big move upward. Also watch XAU. To confirm the move it must go through 80.

Fourth: Insiders are now seeing large bond liquidations by Japanese concerns. This will exert heavy pressure on the dollar and the bond market in the coming weeks. The first signs of this move on the part of Japan surfaced yesterday.

Keep in mind that these are rumors and conjecture that we pass along for information purposes only. Anybody who trades on this information takes full responsibility themselves. We are unable to confirm any of this with hard fact, but the market appear to be reacting according to the scenario presented above.

We will keep you informed.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:48 - ID#20748)
Please read
the Bulletin :

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:48 - ID#238295)
Usand EU
Bernatz: You say that only events in the US can impact gold in a big way on the upside. But doesn't this latest rally perhaps reflect a changing view on how much gold the EU will hold as reserves to back their new currency?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:51 - ID#254159)
Is this the same Edgar Bronfman who is the head of the World Jewish Congress and proponent for the return of the "Nazi Gold" to the survivors of the holocaust. Seems the Gold Rush started some time ago!!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:54 - ID#228128)
Clinton's S. Africa parliment speech
While riding home from work tonight I listened to a National Public Radio news account of Clinton's address to the South African parliment. After kissing Mandela's tutu a bit he said something to the effect that our nations ( the U.S. and S.A. ) don't always see eye to eye on matters much as members of families don't always see eye to eye. At that point I heard someone laughing in the background ( howling with laughter is a more apt description ) . It wasn't loud but clearly audible. It had to be either someone in the radio station or in the audience in the parliment. I got the definite impression it was from the audience ( perhaps wishful thinking ) . Looks like the leader of the most powerful nation on earth can't get no respect. Shame on you South Africans. Don't pick on our Willie.

Princeton Economics turned bullish tonight on gold on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis for the first time since I've been tracking their site over the last several months. They are mostly bullish on all three counts for the other P.M.s as well.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:54 - ID#224151)
IMHO the width of the 4-month XAU chart-base since December suggests a pretty healthy move up before another meaningful correction occurs.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:56 - ID#287338)
Aussie's are buying???
Looks like there is some buying going on in Australia. About time...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:58 - ID#228128)
Adrian: are you Adrian Day

Mike Stewart
(Thu Mar 26 1998 19:59 - ID#270253)
Royal Oak and the Bronfmans
I don't quite get the assumption that the Bronfmans are making a major commitment to gold. These are senior secured notes, paying interest at the Libor plus 6 per cent. They have a two year term. With Kemess as the security, it looks to me like well secured loan.

Are people here assuming that RYO will default, and Trilon will get Kemess? If Kemess gets going as planned, RYO should be able to cover the interest.

Comments please.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:00 - ID#376309)
Yauger & the XAU
Personnally I do not follow him too much but he has been hot lately with the XAU and it looks like his forcast is lining up with what I had in mind. A move to 90 and then down to 35. Sounds rough but you need to simply make the best of it. I'm not about to support the gold market and neither should you!

This is not a real move, BE CAUTIOUS!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:00 - ID#348286)
IMO Barrick is the premiere Gold mining company in the world, and now seems to be taking the comanding role in promoting Gold around the world. The ABX CEO Peter Munk is also Jewish and well connected in many circles.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:04 - ID#228128)
Genn: Why so bearish?
The only thing I can think of that would trash gold that hard is a further meltdown in Asia ( China or Japan ) ? Is that what you're thinking?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:07 - ID#287338)
She's up she's down...
Gold making some wild swings tonight.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:08 - ID#252127)
Northgate Exploration NGX-NYSE @ RYO story.

Northgate Exploration will take up $35 million of the $120 million of secured debt financing initiated by the Bronfman controled company.
It is interesting that M.Witte started up the original work at Colomac Gold Mine and lost it to Northgate. After the Colomac min bombed under NGX it returned to the hands of M.Witte through RYO.
Also coming along was a very valuable copper property owned by Geddes Resources, in which, NGX had an interest. Geddes ambitions were stopped by enviromentalist concerns and the project was given a decent burial, tombstone and all.
As a result of RYO picking up the NGX interest in Geddes. funds expended by Geddes came to RYO as restitution for the value of the work done at Geddes. This plus creation of jobs was a primary reason why British Columbia'a helped out with Kemess.
Now Northgate is back in the picture. PROVES THAT MINING IS ONE TOUGH BUSINESS.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:12 - ID#284255)
ANOTHER's transcripts updated

Back to the paint brush.
No time for surfing. ( :- (

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:14 - ID#208393)
@MoReGoLd - Open interest declining
Pls excuse a newbie question....

What is "open interest", what does it indicate and
where is this figure published on the Web?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:18 - ID#411112)
IDT,I don't suppose NPR carried Clintons whole speech,the part after trashing America he went onto
praise Max Weber,a big commie he had the right folks there,2/3 of the US delegation are card carrying members CPUSA right at home with CPSA I think Clinton likes Weber,he married his cousin.....died insane

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:19 - ID#20748)
IDT : Where on the PEI
site did you find that information ?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:21 - ID#31868)
Anybody catch this today on
MARKET UPDATE ( 3/26/98 ) AM----


The same source that informed us of the Buffett silver purchases before they were publicly announced called today to inform us of the following. ( This man is well connected. )

First: Something's brewing in Japan having to do with their fiscal year end and the stimulus package to bolster their economy. That something has to do with the re-arrangement of reserves to reflect the new realities in the international monetary system and will be announced around April 1, 1998. This probably has to do with Japan's reaction to the new euro and ECB ( European Central Bank ) . It is unclear whether or not the package will have to do with gold directly, but we are told that it will have a great effect on gold. We know that the LDP ruling party in Japan has come out publicly in favor of a yen-based Asian currency system that would give Japan a central role.

Second: This source tells us to watch oil carefully. At this writing it is up 71. There will be a strong attempt to talk oil down and keep investors from speculating in that arena -- but oil, he says, is going much higher. This ties in with the forecast and analysis of ANOTHER as published in the booklet, "In the Footsteps of Giants: The Gold-for -Oil Deal that Could Rock the World's Financial Centers." The strength of oil will shock the markets.

Third: This source tells us that insiders are now convinced that gold is going to the $340-$360 area within the next 30 days. His own chart analysis is telling him that it was significant for gold to go through $300.50 and must now go through $303 to confirm a big move upward. Also watch XAU. To confirm the move it must go through 80.

Fourth: Insiders are now seeing large bond liquidations by Japanese concerns. This will exert heavy pressure on the dollar and the bond market in the coming weeks. The first signs of this move on the part of Japan surfaced yesterday.

Keep in mind that these are rumors and conjecture that we pass along for information purposes only. Anybody who trades on this information takes full responsibility themselves. We are unable to confirm any of this with hard fact, but the market appear to be reacting according to the scenario presented above.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:24 - ID#28594)
Oil--the Gamesmanship--read between these lines!
from "Observer"
Venezuelan energy minister Erwin Arrieta, elebrating his return by having a go at the media for publishing FALSE information to MANIPULATE the oil price. He says an allegedly false news agency dispatch reported a tiff between Venezuela and Saudi Arabia, resulting in a drop in oil prices.

"An important buyer" bought in says Arrieta, then sold when anothr wire report about the health of King Fahd--again allegedly erroneous--sent the price up again."

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:26 - ID#413109)
Looking 4 More!
Date: Thu Mar 26 1998 18:04
bernatz du ventadorm ( Tom, I didn't answer the question ) ID#182192:
Copyright  1998 bernatz du ventadorm/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Am interested in the part of your post that stated that what will impact
the price of gold will be from inside the U.S.- Please tell us what you
believe are some of those things. Inflation rearing it's ugly head, we
are all familiar with, please enlighten us, won't you?
If you care to keep this just between us,

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:28 - ID#28594)
SilverBaron ~ BWIs"
Many Thanks! {:- ) )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:30 - ID#288295)
tolerant1 % MoReGold

Now that you guys have the copyrights on that story, are ya gonna sell 'em back to USAGOLD, or publish your own book?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:30 - ID#269245)
chas, player - Iridium is a global communications company...
that is launching 66 satillites which will orbit the Earth and will allow uninterrupted, direct comunication from anywhere to anywhere - scheduled to be available in September, '98. I am not talking about the element ( although that subject is just as interesting ) . What I am suggesting is that this communications system will not be affected by Y2K. So far, our communications experts on this forum have offered no response to my query. Check it out...

- c

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:34 - ID#288295)

I looked at the source directory for that reference, and saw some really scary stuff - phrases like 'Global Governance'...... made me want to puke...

Mike Stewart
(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:36 - ID#270253)
I have met Yvan Auger as we live in the same town. He is very interesting in that he is busy with a demanding day job, and follows Elliott Wave ( via Prechter ) for a hobby. He does not have time or interest in Kitco. He is very independent ( outside of the Prechter influence ) . I find his opinions useful.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:41 - ID#31868)
I already contacted my attorney and will be suing MoReGoLd in the morning.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:46 - ID#251268)
spot market down fractionaly
but futures is up and O.I.droped dramaticaly in april gold
but june has picked up as well as aug.~~june 304.20

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:48 - ID#288295)

( ;^ ) )

Mr. Mick
(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:50 - ID#345321)
Tolerant, Japan is probably going to buy vast amounts of gold....
like they haven't already ( !? ) , but will keep it on the quiet, so as not to start "a panic". They have to be smelling competition from the European banks ( read ECU ) . So if they don't already have enought gold, they will probably buy more to insure their position.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:52 - ID#17796)
You must have read the same news reports I did. I concur, China will revalue. My interest is whether Japan, China and S.E.Asia will join together, just as the Europeans, to form a competing currency to the US$. Intersting times! The only certainty seems to be change -coming to a town near you -soon. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:52 - ID#228128)
NJ - on the Princeton site scroll down the left frame until you see Market Watch - Global Market View. It has a football looking orb that rotates around with the word New in it. Click on that. From their you get about 6 options: foreign exchange, energy, commodities, stocks, bonds, and metals. Once into the metals section you can click on the metal of choice to get further info and previous daily, weekly, and monthly forecasts. For those of you who don't have the site bookmarked its as follows:

robnoel_A - no they didn't do the whole speech, just enough to embarass me as an American with his falling all over himself apologizing for the usual. During the part I described in the previous post though I was laughing so hard I could have lost control of the car. They should warn you when things like that are coming up.

Adrian: The reason I asked if you are Adrian Day is because you answered someones query the other day and provided info about Bema and Arizona Star if memory serves. I met Adrian Day at a couple of the New Orleans investment conferences and discussed those companies with him. Nice English chap.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:53 - ID#201239)
who is buying?
Last October the fall in gold and gold stocks was started when Soros sold a large block of Newmont at $45.

Yesterday CNBC reported a rumour that the reason the market turned from plus 100 on the Dow to minus 100 was that Soros was liquidating.

Today, we see a story in the NY newspapers about Soros buying into silver ( really old news to this group ) - but - someone bought 4.4 million shares of Newmont today and it started from the gitgo - many, many blocks trades. It wasn't gold funds, they don't have the cash yet.

So. in 1993 the gold move was started buy Soros buying the position in Newmont - its de ja vu all over again Yogi!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:57 - ID#432157) tried this but could not get article?????
Could SOMEONE comment on this article

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:57 - ID#432157) tried this but could not get article?????
Could SOMEONE comment on this article

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:57 - ID#432157) tried this but could not get article?????
Could SOMEONE comment on this article

(Thu Mar 26 1998 20:59 - ID#28781)
@Mike Stewart

I have been a student and praticioner of the Elliott wave theory for 14 years and use it as part of my day job. I have found over the years that Mr. Prechter relies too much on price level analysis in conjuction with the theory while excluding the use and combination of other well known and useful technical tools. For example, from his February report, he concludes the Dow will move no higher than 8650 in a Diagonal triangle or as part of a triangle formation. Both formations are stunted. He leaves out the plausible formation of a normal fifth wave which is exactly what has occurred. Over the years he has mistakenly not used such simple tools such as trendlines and moving averages which I believe would have helped him identify the proper pattern and kept him more in the game on the intermediate moves. As Kitcoites we need to keep an eye on his forecast for gold. I wonder though, if his X wave identified as complete in Feb '96 actually was completed in 1987, thereby allowing for the low in January of this year to be the bottom of the second zig-zag pattern completing the entire bear market from 1980. Time will tell. For now the target is the October 97 highs.

The theory does work. However it works best in conjunction with other tools. I hope my opinions and experience over the years will be of some benefit to others on this site.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:00 - ID#411112)
IDT...hang around he make some great ones in Jo' the way did you enjoy

those Blancard shows?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:01 - ID#20748)
Thank you.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:05 - ID#23398)
John Disney I am amazed that the Bronfmans have not followed your advise before investing in RYO.Canada probably rates below S.A. As far as the future is concerned. Well John diversity pays on the long run.I would place my bet on Canada.Not to late to change.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:07 - ID#228128)
have to read bedtime stories. be back in a few minutes

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:08 - ID#344206)
Another big day for the well trained fighter as he moves forward towards his opponent.Basically, because it is the right time. He will command most all of this second round. His adversary has been caught somewhat off guard, seemingly very well-planned.We shall see. Go with the young fighter while he is strong and advancing. For he is excited and this is worth much more than you now know.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:08 - ID#150172)
IRA for Eagle Investments
Hi All,

I've been lurking for about a month. Thanks to all for great ideas.

Does anyone know of a specific financial institution that offers
an IRA that can hold golden eagles? It would be nice if they were very
conservative and have reasonable fees.

Thanks in advance.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:09 - ID#285309)
GOLDen Discussion Board - SSRIF Question - GOLDen Discussion Board - Why is SSRIF trading

so close to its 52 week low? ( W/ silver @6.40 it should be more

like $5.50-$6.50??? )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:13 - ID#255190)
clone re: Iridium

I don't have a clue as to whether it is Y2K compliant or not. Its just another system among many. If its the only one operating correctly I can be bold enough to say that no civilians will be using it ( only top level government and miliary use ) !

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:16 - ID#411112)
eck33.sure do American Church Trust in Texas


(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:17 - ID#31868)
Mr. Mick - for the past ten months articles
on golden eagle have been discussing what is now happening. None of this is a surprise, and gold, silver and platinum are the place to be.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:23 - ID#251166)
Re. Y2K and H.G. Wells
Computer Guys, Y2K junkies --

Is there any way to suspend time, digitally -- that is, to alter the progression of a digital clock? ( ie. 12/31/99 [day 1]; 12/31/99 [day 2]; etc. )

Just a thought. IDCIBM!


Mr. Mick
(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:23 - ID#345321)
Tolerant, haven't had time to read golden eagle......
there is an awful lot of info there..what else do you forsee?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:24 - ID#411112)
tolerant1..repeat after me...please God give me one more run,and I promise I won't blow it this time


(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:24 - ID#401237)
Cliton Safari
CAPE TOWN, South Africa ( AP ) - The White House on Thursday denied offering slots in President Clinton's 700-member delegation to Africa as a perk for campaign contributions. But it did acknowledge that a few big-dollar donors are along on the trip.

Republican National Committee Chairman Jim Nicholson called the trip ``a multi-million dollar fund-raising safari'' and said big donors on the trip had given more than $1 million to Democrats over the last decade.

Among those traveling with Clinton are Maurice Tempelsman and Los Angeles grocer Ron Burkle, who played host to fund-raisers for Clinton at his opulent Los Angeles mansion in 1996.

McCurry said Burkle's grocery chain does a lot of business in Africa. ``And he's also a contributor to the party. We make no bones about that,'' McCurry said.

Tempelsman, a diamond dealer who was a companion of the late Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, gave more than $250,000 to Democrats since 1993. Burkle contributed $183,000 since 1993.

You Just Have To Love The Guy.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:25 - ID#31868)
geoffs click on quotes and market link, second one from the top.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:25 - ID#288295)
I don't know why, except perhaps the market is completely discounting the Russian reserves, and the fact that they didn't make the 250 MM oz reserve total as most stockholders thought they would. I had a pretty big ( for me ) position in SSRIF but dumped 60% just before it took its last dive....There are other silver stocks ( obviously ) that give more bang for the buck - tolerant1 has a few he likes - I'm pretty big on PAASF and others here love SSC....Maybe a lot of other shareholders ( like me ) just got tired of it an moved on to better pastures.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:26 - ID#31868)
opps, it is the first link. If I had another brain it would die of loneliness.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:27 - ID#228128)
final comments for the night
Robnoel_A: Yes, I enjoyed the Blanchard conferences very much. They were very well put together and informatived. Also, there is nothing like meeting eyeball to eyeball with the various promoters, newsletter writers, brokers, etc. Finally, I think that I learned most by reading between the lines so to speak on how the resource stock business works. All in all it was very educational and well worth the price of entry.

NJ: No problem. I've appreciated very much the Martin Armstrong metals updates that you have kindly provided.

Mike Stewart
(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:32 - ID#270253)
Isn't Royal Oak similar to most South African mines now that all of their cash flow from Kemess will go to paying interest. It will be a break even mine at current gold prices. There is one huge difference. RYO has a proven track record of disappointments. I wouldn't get too smug on this one. When gold move, the South Africans will outperform.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:35 - ID#401237)
Mexican Central Bank For Sale

Zedillo offers proposal to boost Central Bank's independence.

Zedillo asked lawmakers to give the Bank of Mexico full control of foreign exchange policy. His proposal would also give the central bank authority over the National Banking and Securities Commission, now overseen by the Treasury Secretary.

Now the zinger:

In another important move, the bill would also lift restrictions on foreign stock ownership in Mexican banks.
Chase Bank are most likely interested owners, they own the US Central Bank.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:38 - ID#338452)
This is posted FOR MOONEY :
"Wake Up America! The following is from Steve Kaplan's Gold Mining
Outlook Page and MOONEY agrees and says: WAKE UP BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!:

The number of U.S. listed mutual funds substantially exceeds the number
of U.S. listed stocks, with more mutual funds being added every month.

In late June 1997, the State of New Jersey finalized plans to borrow 2.8
billion dollars at an interest cost of 7.6% and an up-front fee of fifty
million dollars in order to invest the money in U.S. equities. In late
June 1997, the State of New Jersey finalized plans to borrow 2.8 billion
dollars at an interest cost of 7.6% and an up-front fee of fifty million
dollars in order to invest the money in U.S. equities."

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:43 - ID#340302)
Adrian...there are two major Bronfman families...the Bronfmans of Seagrams fame headed by Edgar Sr. and Edgar Jr....these Bronfmans are the ones chasing after the Swiss banks on behalf of Jewish victims of the Holocaust.

The other Bronfmans are the Bronfmans of EDPER, headed by Peter Bronfman.
These two families, although related, do not really get along. It relates to an old family feud instigated by the patriarch of the family, Sam Bronfman. However, Peter Bronfman's EDPER is truly one of the most powerful corporations on this continent...enormous real estate and miscellaneous holdings...they control approximately 45 major corporations in the world including the largest power utility in Brazil.

Michael Stewart...essentially, Royal Oak is now in an analogous situation to the one Sunshine Mining found itself in several years ago. Just as for years, the Sunshine bondholders called the shots at the de facto bankrupt Sunshine, leaving the impotent Sunshine shareholders to twiddle their thumbs, so you can be sure that Bronfman's Trilon will now call the shots at Royal Oak. Trilon is essentially functioning as a quasi-venture capitalist arriving to save the day for Royal Oak. In other words, whatever income is generated by Royal Oak over the next year will likely flow to Trilon alone...there will likely be nothing left over for RYO shareholders UNLESS the POG moves quickly above 400 an ounce ( within the realm of possibility if we get a stock market panic, I suppose ) . However, I do not foresee RYO shareholders participating in the profits for some time to come. Moreover, if Royal Oak should default on interest payments to Trilon or run out of working capital this time, then you can be certain Trilon will move to take over the company and RYO shareholders will either be diluted to the nth degree or they will be wiped out completely. Conversely, even if Royal Oak flourishes, you still can expect Royal Oak to convert some or all of the Trilon bonds to equity, thereby diluting the RYO stock once again. However, my sense is that once gold rises above 400 an ounce, then RYO shareholders should begin to participate in profits.

In the worst case scenario, Trilon will end up owning a nice medium gold producer for a total cost of 100 million plus operating capital...very nice indeed considering the company has spent over well over 700 million dollars developing its major mines.

The 100 million investment in a pure gold play is nothing to sneeze at and is certainly a win/win situation for the Bronfmans no matter where the POG moves.

The most important thing is that it signals substantive interest in gold by one of the world's wealthiest, shrewdest, most powerful families at a time when gold shorts are still propagandizing that gold is a mere, collapsing commodity desired only by abject morons.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:43 - ID#401237)
jonesy (Re. Y2K and H.G. Wells)

That's how they will buy time, there will be a universal agreement made in the UN that time will not progress past 11:59PM Dec. 31, 1999.

They will suspend time - indefinitely!

They will.

Dec. 32, 33, 34th......1,579th........45,673,258th


(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:43 - ID#150172)
Thanks for the name. Are Gold Coin IRAs hard to find? They seem to be.
Do you know of any others? Have you ( or anyone ) had good experiences
with "American Church Trust" and or Asset Strategies Intl Inc. of MD.?

Thanks very much.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:44 - ID#288295)

Methinks that maybe taxes go up big in Joisey next year.....borrowing to buy stocks.....unbelievable!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:45 - ID#304282)
The Wizard of OZ
I actually learned something today. You all might already know this but I had never heard this before. The Wizard of OZ was a political book to trash the greenback and promote gold and silver. In the book Dorthy's slippers were made of silver. They followed the yellow brick road ( gold ) to the emerald city. The emerald city represents the dollar. The scene where the guy is caught behind the curtain is symbolic for how the dollar is manipulated. The guy ( I can't remember his name ) stands for the robber barrons. When Dorthy first lands in OZ she kills the wicked witch of the east, who represents Wall Street. The good witch of the south represents southerners. Success can be found when Dorthy, who represents the midwest and traditional values, and the good witch of the south team up against the wicked witch of the west, who represents western progressive policies. These progressive policies were pushing for the implementation of the greenback. OZ stands for ounce as in an ounce of gold or silver. The munchins stand for sverage citizens.

I had never heard this before and thought some of you might be interested.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:48 - ID#150172)
Computer clocks just keep ticking. You can of course keep re-setting
the clock to whatever date you want, ie. before year 2000.

Also you can test your home computer by BACKING UP your data and then experimenting with setting the clock. This could be done in the setup section of your computer. You get to this ( usually ) by hitting the 'del' key while it is first booting up. See how high you can set the date.

If you mess up settings, you can always restore original settings, by finding that selection in the setup menus.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:51 - ID#344290)
Kitkat - Welcome, open interest is number of contracts outstanding in a commodity ( 1 contract= buyer + seller )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:51 - ID#317193)
With the big bang coming to Japan and the rest of the world, is the problem with derivatives. If April brings any major change in any of the financial markets outstanding derivatives will come into play. The problem is that major swings cause major gains and losses. Major losses are OK if the losing party has the cash to pay up on the loss. A few defaults by any large losers will cause a major financial crisis. If the S.E.Asia crisis saddled some unknown fiancial institutions with large loses already, danger lies ahead. No way to know in advance. NOTHING could happen or meltdown time could occur. One thing I'm convinced of is that change is coming to a town near you -soon. "Hedge" your bets-with someone solvent! Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:53 - ID#31868)
Mr. Mick, as I have stated many times I simply to not have the background
nor the education to fully respond. That having been said I think that articles from Kutyn and Milhouse ( digest section ) on golden eagle are darn close as an answer. Somewhere in between those two sets of articles is a picture of what is happening.It is a bunch of reading, but I am sure where there is a will there is a way. Please note that I just feel strongly that my take on their articles would not be a fair translation, not fair at all.

Over and above that I feel very strong about the economic meltdown and the Y2K problems and am way ahead on the planning curve in preping for both. More than just metal will see one through the next few years.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:56 - ID#288295)
eck333 @ IRA Eagles
I'm pretty sure that any full service brokerage can do this for you, and have them stored in a depository like Wilmington Trust. I have done this in the past in my IRA with Solomon Smith Barney. Perhaps outfits like Benham Certified Metals and Wilmington Trust do IRA's directly, but you would need to call them to find out.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:58 - ID#372400)
Apology to ANOTHER and some doubts
My apology for using word "blackmail". It is incorrect. What I intended to say
was "attempt to restrict free commodity market". Any such attempts are
harmful in first place to those trying to control. But to amke a better
argument I would refer to an idea of F.D.Roosvelt about postwar world order.
The idea was to garantee free and equal access to all raw material to all
countries. The restriction of such access usually led to wars. G7 will always
have something to sell to buy oil -- but attempts to dictate prices "in gold"
will turn against oil-exporters the rest 100 countries of the world which
will behave much less civilized than US during Desert Storm.

On the other hand, all this "fairness junk" about insufficient compensation
for oil. Well, what about all the technology, which might be bought for dollars:
starting with water purifiers and ending with medicine to save or
prolong lifes? Does it ever happen
to those unhappy about "cheap oil" or "worthless dollars" that in case of much
higher oil price, all this medicine and life-improving technologies would be
also astronomically priced and as a consequence newborn mortality will jump to
the medeival level?

I think that free market shall be done as free as possible and all attempts
to create cartels, monopolies, goverment interventions, etc.
( that is regulate market by means of "simple minded" decisions of those in
power ) will create more unforseen problems than solve.

Best regards, Thomas.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 21:59 - ID#340302)
...and expect the same for your old favorite, PEGASUS.

My prediction: somebody else will surface soon who wishes "to walk in the footsteps of giants" and imitate the Bronfmans where Pegasus is concerned.

Look for the banks and bondholders to take Pegasus out of bankruptcy soon and sell their debt to another entity in an analogous deal to the Trilon-Royal Oak venture.

My guess is that Pegasus common should pop up quickly to at least $1.50-$1.75 in such an eventuality. Again, if POG rises over 400, then the company equity ultimately might move a good deal higher.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:06 - ID#266105)

Chase Bank are most likely interested owners, they own the US Central Bank.


In _Secrets of Temple: How the Federal Reserve Runs the
Country_; William S. Greider; 1987; 798pgs.; Simon &
Schuster-- Chapter 2, In the Temple goes into the
convoluted ownership structure of the Federal Reserve
and how it varies from central banks in other countries.

Paragraph, pg. 50:

"To further complicate and darken the picture, the
commercial banks held stock shares in each of the
Federal Reserve Banks, which misled many into assuming
that the Federal Reserve System was 'privately owned.'
In fact, the stock shares were a vestigial feature
of System membership that confused and excited Populist
critics, but had virtually no paractical meaning. The
Federal Reserve was government, including the twelve
Federal Reserve Banks, not a private entity. Commercial
bankers did enjoy preferred access and influence at the
Fed, but the internal power relationship gave the Board
of Governors, appointed by Washington, more authority
than the presidents of the twelve Federal Reserve Banks.
When a regional board of directors selected its new
President, the chairman at the Fed's home office could
veto the choice."


Greider writes condemnatorily on the Federal Reserve
and its practices over the years, leaving few stones
unturned in making his influential case ( s ) . It is
the actual ownership structure of the Reserve and
the reins of power therein on which he builds whatever
can be utilized in that regard.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:08 - ID#411112)
eck33,I'am a dealer and use ACT..let me say the only reason I do recommend

Gold IRA'S,is for the folks that get sticker shock when they find out the hit ( tax,penalty ) if they just withdraw and buy gold,all metal is stored in Willmington Del.It is a poor choice,but the best out there,it's like buying a gun for protection and storing it thousands of miles away

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:10 - ID#340459)
@farfel, I hope you are right my friend, I hope for synonymous vision, PGU was a pioneer of low cost
Gold Production, Thanks again for positive THOUGHTS

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:12 - ID#340302)
The mantra of the goldbug...



(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:18 - ID#317193)
Some kind souls here told me about Cental Fund of Canada-CEF-which holds only gold and siver bullion. Trades now at less than the value of the bullion held. I concluded this was a better play than coins. On Amex. Take a look. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:20 - ID#317193)
You are an encourageable . Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:24 - ID#288295)
eck333 @ IRA
I agree with robnoel; much better to buy the bullion or coins privately and hold it privately....For your IRA, one alternative you might explore is the purchase of shares of the Central Fund of Canada ( symbol CEF ) which trades on the Amex. It is a bulllion-only fund, holding silver and gold bullion, and trades like any other closed-end fund.

Voyeur Professor
(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:26 - ID#231104)
Gold: to die or not to die that is the question.

I hope many of you have seen the Wall Street Journal op-ed piece on the eurodollar that was featured in yesterdays editorial page. A rather extensive review of the nature, implications, and potential impact of the euro on the dollar, the author ( whose name I have lamentably forgotten ) , addresses several issues that have become a focus for Kitco discussions over the past year. Arguing rather forcefully against any notion that gold is dead, the author claims thatd:

1. The euro will succeed and will be supported by substantial reserves of gold because as fiat paper, the euro will need the legitimacy gold can provide.
2. China will probably be forced to devaluate her currency and this will be bullish for gold.
3. The dollar, euro, and the yen will form a tripartite monetary hegemony which will insure a more equitable global monetary balance, but the dollar will surely be forced from its current dominant role in international currency trading.

Sounds to me that gold, like Mark Twains quip that news of his recent death is premature, has a considerable role to play in the emerging new monetary synthesis.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:26 - ID#288295)

Great minds think alike....

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:29 - ID#288156)
"Regulating capital flows"--using the Asean crisis to come public
with a program that has been on their "to-do" list...
FT: Lead editorial + the "Personal View" column by Joesph Stiglitz ( chief economist and senior vice-president of the World Bank )

For "regulated capital flows" read regulated GLOBAL markets...regulated by whom? Take a wild guess...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:30 - ID#317193)
I beleive you were one of those kind souls-along with mozel, a person I miss even if he was slightly to the right of John Birch. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:30 - ID#401237)

Thanks for the info, I have the book on the shelf - will now read.

Thanks again,


(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:31 - ID#269245)
I find these news reports interesting:

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:35 - ID#288295)

Yep! ( ;^ ) )

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:36 - ID#317193)
Have an idea were the Fed's debt came from? Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:38 - ID#288156)
This is an interesting "KEY"---WTO is concerned that China WON'T join!
By Guy de Jonquieres in London/Neil Buckley in Brussels/James Kynge in Beijing

"The European Union plans to ureg Zhu Rongji, China's prime minister, to dispel growing doubts about Beijing's attitude to joining the WTO by stating that his government is firmly committed to membership.

The demand, to be made at next week's EU-China summit in London, is prompted by concern in Brussels and Washington that Beijing's previous
enthusiasm for early WTO entry is starting to wane.

EU officials said China appeared to be dragging its feet over promises
to speed up the WTO talks by tabline bolder offers to lower trade barriers in services and cut industrial import tariffs.

Western officials are worried that the preoccupation of China's new
leadership with accelerating domestic economic reforms has led it to downgrade the importance of the 11 year old WTO talks."

Dear WTO, dear Washington, dear Brussels,
YOU have a desperate need of China; however, China doesn't necessarily
need YOU. How does it feel?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:39 - ID#7568)

With the OTC options going out tommorrow morning it was surprising to see a good rally in the hated yellow metal. Usually at this juncture, folks sit back and let the option writers do their thing. The strength is very impressive considering when it is occuring.

The big silver switch that I spoke of yesterday has been completed. This has relieved the pressure in the spot market and let todays little rally go. Expect the boys to try and post a good number on the close tomorrow. It is becoming apparent that the players have accumulated their positions and would like to see the market work higher with a minimum amount of expenditure. This will likely entail trying to move the price above obvious chart points at crucial times. Friday afternoon is always a key time.

Now for the non-gold part. Hopes I don't piss too many of y'all off but I just can't resist.

The set of facts concerning the Arkansas shootings, as I understand them from the various news reports, were that a thirteen year old child was dumped by his girlfriend, he was overwhelmed by this rejection, enlisted the aid of some friends, got a hold of some guns and ammo, and went nuts. The boy in question had been thoroughly schooled in the handling of firearms, both his parents were leaders of the local shooting club, the boy himself had engaged in combat competition, and was not bereft of religious instruction in so far as he wished for a little 'scripture time' while in his holding cell.

Had the boy who pulled the trigger been a poster here at Kitco a week ago he probably would have been hailed as America's salvation, and told that he was wise beyond his years.

From this set of facts, it has been stated and affirmed here at Kitco that several conclusions can be drawn. I will paraphrase.

"This tragedy is a direct result of the liberal permissive society."

"This is a classic example of why gun control should never be allowed. For if only the ten year old girls who were slaughtered were packing AK47's or some similar quality armaments, the boys would have thought twice."

"Children who speak improperly should perhaps be 'smashed in the mouth'".

I am sorry to be the one to have to bring this to the attention of the group, but it may well be that possession of gold imparts an accelerating dimentia to its holder.

EB: You may wan't to make sure the wink is hermetically sealed. I'd hate like hell to feel I was responsible for your mental disfigurement.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:39 - ID#288295)
Global markets regulated by whom, and to the advantage of whom?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:40 - ID#411112)
Proffesor..Gold wil never die its real stuff,the dollar is perception of value

the Euro will fly,the question is at what cost,kind of like the y2k lots of opions no one knows ...and whats up with the Russia,France,German gold and lots of it

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:41 - ID#53235)
Gold IRA
Silverbaron and robnoel_A

Part of my problem is than in my state ( MN ) we pay 7% sales tax on all coin purchases, supposed to on even out of state purchases.

TYoung and all. Thanks for the tip on CEF.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:42 - ID#427357)

The big play in 1998 will be the South African Gold Stocks.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:43 - ID#401237)
Asia Selling US Treasuries - Billions

Japan, others in Asia sold U.S. securities in quarter


(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:44 - ID#317193)
MOVE-try beautiful Nebraska -oh well, just move. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:46 - ID#401237)

Thanks for the URL on Asia selling US Treasuries.

We should tally up the billions and project the amount for the First Quarter - It has to be a staggering number.

The Fed is buying bonds! Monetizing the Debt!!


(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:46 - ID#287358)
With Pegasus Gold, the leverage is huge. I expect that with
US$350. gold, Pegasus will be in the CN$3.50 range, which is
far above it's recent CN .55 to .72. Remember, they have
$27,000,000. in cash, and their cost of production is $275. per

Regarding SSRIF, I also don't know why the price is so weak.
I read a very nice report by Scotia, I believe, stating that
SSRIF was among the very highest-geared ( leveraged ) of the pure
silver companies. My best guess is that, this early in the bull
market, investors are buying *producers*. As the price of silver
rises, I expect SSRIF to move faster than PAASF, for example.

And I do *not* subscribe to the notion that the supply of silver
will catch up with the demand in the next few years. How many
people know that one use for silver that is really catching on
is as as anti-bacterial agent? I have a friend who visited Japan
and came back to tell me that there are hundreds, *hundreds*
of products containing silver for that reason only, and the
trend is increasing strongly. Even a coating on automobile
steering wheels. Silver is awesome.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:47 - ID#341312)
I decided to do the same thing a couple of months ago and the only institution I could find that would handle this is the previously mentioned American Church Trust Company ( 1-800-228-8825 ) . The way it works is this:
1 ) Call them and request their IRA packet.
2 ) Fill it for a regular ( self-directed ) IRA and send it back. I included a signed but not completely filled out investment direction form that included the broker's name ( you choose the broker ) . You will need one of these signed forms for every purchase. ( Fax is okay. )
3 ) When your current IRA funds have been deposited with ACTC ( just like a 401 ( k ) rollover, do NOT take direct possession of theses funds! ) , you can purchase approved gold, silver, and platinum bullion coins from your broker. Approved gold coins are the US Eagle, Austrian Philharmonic and possibly one or two others ( Can Maple Leaf? ) . My broker, Investment Rarities, recommended the Phil due to highest face value. As far as silver and platinum goes, I believe only the US Eagles are currently allowed. Watch the spot for a good price and call your broker. The coins are shipped prior to payment provided your broker has a faxed copy of the signed investment direction form listing him as the broker. No funds are released from ACTC until they are notified by the actual repository, Wilmington Trust, that the coins are there. Whew! Sure is alot easier to drive to the local coin shop and put down some bills but it's your only penalty-free choice. Perhaps Frank Zappa was right after all, the world will end in paperwork! I'm planning on holding mine until well after 01/01/00. Oops, I mean 01/01/2000. Seems now *I've* got the bug. ;- )

P.S. This whole process takes a while ( about 3 weeks ) so don't wait too long. You don't have to buy the coins right away, the funds just sit in ACTC's money market. Tick... tick... tick...

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:48 - ID#20748)
Yet another woman
accuses our President.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:49 - ID#411112)
DA,you had to do URL post 14.02...its not hard to understand kids today if know what

they are being taught at school

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:51 - ID#285309)
Thanks ChasAbar__A for your perspective on SSRIF.
I know you are right and I know SSRIF will be a security
that will pay off big if silver can hold the $6 for a while.

It is just amazing that people would sell it at $3.50 when it should
be $6!! It is like selling Silver for $4 when you should really
get $6.50. Anyway, well just wait and see, hoepfully the wait will be very short. Peter

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:51 - ID#31868)
D.A. - given the clarity of your descriptive "factual" paragraph
as to the individuals background, I think they ought to take the little bastard out and shoot him and make a documentary to be watched during firearm training in Junior Highschool.

Believe me, the little Afghan children defending their homeland against USSR agression knew exactly what they were doing. In fact one of the top snipers was 12 years old.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:52 - ID#401237)
ChasAbar__A PGU

I did buy 1000 shares for $0.43/ share, I will now just sit back and wait. If it takes a couple of years to get to $10 / share who cares. It cost me less than $500.

They are not broke, they have to much net worth to go bankrupt - they just filed for reorganization, chapter 11.

Thanks for your help.


(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:54 - ID#234406)
BIG BANG! What is That?
It seems we should be pooling our knowledge about the BIG BANG that is suppose to take place April 1. I have wondered what it is. It just sounds like some ominous SURPRISE.

Upon doing a little research I find that if is apparently a deregulation of Japanese Banking practices that will change a number of things.

1. They will now will be able to join up with foreign businesses such as German Insurance companies and get envolved in total financial services worldwide.

2. They plan to make investing much more accessible to the general public by lowering the minimum investment to 1 million yen and by discounting the brokerage fees. Investors also will be less restricted from selling a security once they have bought it.

I believe this will have a great impact on the movement of money. Japanese of limited means may now have expanded choices for obtaining greater returns on their investment yen than they presently have in low interest bank deposits and US Treasuries.

We may begin to see some US Treasuries being cashed in as Japanese prepare themselves for this new opportunity. The impact of this would be downward pressure on the dollar with an eventual improved value for precious metals.

This is my impression with the very limited research I have gathered to date. If I am misinformed, please feel free to correct or elaborate. This could be important news that may effect kitcoites in a number of ways.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:54 - ID#257136)
T. Young: A question, or rather, two questions: Who was John Birch and exactly where was he on the
political spectrum, and why was he there? O.K. that's three questions. Forgive me. TIA
(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:55 - ID#434108)
Gold bottom completed.
Thur., 3/26/98: Today's 4-million-share volume totals, in strategically important gold-mining stocks such as ABX & NEM, and on healthy price advances.... these kinds of numbers are additional evidence that the bottom in gold markets -- built during the last four months -- has been completed.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 22:59 - ID#411112)
eck333,ditto TYoung,I have a few clients in your neck of the woods,none of them pay sales tax when

they buy from me....then again have not heard from them in a while ...maybe in jail
(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:00 - ID#434108)
change of e-mail address
My new e-mail address is supposed to be
( however, something in my "mail & news preferences" ( etc. ) is
still not set up correctly.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:02 - ID#341312)
D.A.- baddabing-baddaboom
Nicely put. The liberals blame the guns, the conservatives blame the movies, the parents and the liberals, and nobody ( except spudmaster's first point ) blames the kids. As far as I'm concerned, neither Hollywood or Winchester, Ruger et al is responsible for this tragedy. It's simply a clear cut case of multiple first degree murder. Treat it as such. Lock them up in solitary confinement for life where they can't harm anyone else ever again. Their true punishment will come after that sentence is completed. Perhaps they will repent before that time.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:02 - ID#427357)
bernatz du crap

Tom: It never ceases to amaze me when pseudo-intellectuals - like bernatz du crap - try to impress themselves by making derrogatory remarks about analysts who spend endless hours in making studies that they unselfishly share with others. bernatz du crap's comment, "...on the price of gold in the next three months can be summed up in three words - none and none" is typical of his lack of understanding of the situation, and refusal to even evaluate someone else's well-considered and studied observations.

bernatz du crap, should wish to discuss this further, you know my email!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:02 - ID#210235)
Cans and string? Great idea? You can make the connection from Australia to EB in Southern Cal. I'll spot for my place to LBG ( 2 silicon valley snobs ) .

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:02 - ID#288156)

TYoung--Zhu Rongji has to be one of the more interesting political
figures of our time--

or perhaps he commands attention because others are so woefully lacking...
Nonetheless, it is an absolutely riveting play. And the one thread of which I feel sure is that China WILL NOT devalue [too much political currency at stake] but she will most certainly revalue--and the intellectual challenge there is to identify which of the two possibles she'll chose--an Asian choice would perhaps been too much too soon, in
the ascension to new empire? SDR until 2000, back her currency with gold, and then the Charlmagne crowning? How vote you? {:- )

SilverBaron@Yes.Scary! There is a kind of language key: sustainable development; price stability; income equity....when one reads those phrases, the alert system goes to red [poor choice of color?] {:- ) ) Incidently, it would appear that BWIs are the new central bank configuration, geared to global governance. Is this the point at which we start cheering for the Y2K side?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:03 - ID#288156)
TYoung--Zhu Rongji has to be one of the more interesting political figures of our time--
perhaps he commands attention because others are so woefully lacking...
Nonetheless, it is an absolutely riveting play. And the one thread of which I feel sure is that China WILL NOT devalue [too much political currency at stake] but she will most certainly revalue--and the intellectual challenge there is to identify which of the two possibles she'll chose--an Asian choice would perhaps been too much too soon, in
the ascension to new empire? SDR until 2000, back her currency with gold, and then the Charlmagne crowning? How vote you? {:- )

SilverBaron@Yes.Scary! There is a kind of language key: sustainable development; price stability; income equity....when one reads those phrases, the alert system goes to red [poor choice of color?] {:- ) ) Incidently, it would appear that BWIs are the new central bank configuration, geared to global governance. Is this the point at which we start cheering for the Y2K side?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:03 - ID#257136)
@ D. A. : Re: your 22:39- I live in Arkansas and have not either heard or read the info you
imparted concerning the ( shooter's ) parent's involvement in the "local gun club".
I would be most appreciative if you would please detail the source ( s ) of your information.
Sometimes I feel all alone out here in the hinterland where communication is so poor!
If it would facilitate your response, my email is

Jis anudder ol' kuntree boy who neads eddicashun! ( :+^} ) [
The request is made in all seriousness, in spite of the tongue-in-cheek icon.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:04 - ID#7568)

Just checked out the money supply figures for the week. M3 up $20 billion.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:09 - ID#317193)
John Birch was as far to the right on the political scale as possible, and then some. Goes back about, I think, 40 or some years. Formed the John Birch Society. Contrarian was an understatement. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:13 - ID#411112)
I guess I am also far right JB hated commies with a passion so do I,

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:15 - ID#317193)
China may be forced to act in concert with the rest of Asia. Going it alone til 2000 could cause economic disaster. I vote China acts in concert but holds the cards to dictate the future-win/win play. As good a guess as any, eh. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:19 - ID#31868)
On China
I don't think China can even measure two years. It is far too insignificant a time span as far as their thinking goes. IMHO

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:20 - ID#266105)

clone ( chas, player - Iridium is a global communications company... ) ID#269245:
that is launching 66 satillites which will orbit the Earth and will allow uninterrupted,


Motorola's got a follow-on project to Iridium on the
drawing board and headed towards the launch pad, financing
arrranged at least partially. It's in direct competition
to Gates/McCaw audacious venture, Teledesic, throwing
up maybe 740 birds in a beehive configuration with
high-speed Inet throughput envisioned. Be more stars
moving up there than fixed coming over an nearby
horizon soon.

Ssssssatcommmm, keep yer eye on the birdie, debbie
does in a dish. Didja know that halfway between the
flange and the cassegrainian subreflector on a 4.5m
folding Andrews mounted on a mobile uplink pushing
about 1kw C-band video is a good place to cook a hot
dog on a stick for lunch.

In Gates' deal-- cheap, light, lowcost, mass produced
stamp'm out birdies have never been done, Boeing's gonna try.
But then, there's no launch vehicle platform in existence
economically feasible yet. I can't even imagine the software
headaches handing one's link over and over with about 40 minutes
visibility. But the launch stuff, these old NASA engineers from
Apollo and suchlike sprung out of retirement to fool with
Russian reusable engines ordered destroyed but hidden by
their papas. Immensely powerful/weight ratios, parachuted back,
about 25 reuses. I mean these fools are like 70-80 years old
back playing with something exciting, sequestered on Lake
Washington, Puget Sound area, right there by MickeySoft.
They got one engine for reverse engineering and were
working on obtaining the other 25 from Russia for use.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:21 - ID#210235)
Is Auckland still dark?


(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:23 - ID#210235)
@Aragorn of Arathorn
Thanks for the primer. No, everybody doesn't know what you suppose we all know. Like relativity, some of the financial sleight of hand and complicated schematics make perfect sense when you read them, then you just don't remember them the next day. You, like Albert, are a patient and clear teacher.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:23 - ID#341312)
a.j.-John Birch
See for yourself at Always thought-provoking, occasionally right-on-target, and sometimes, well, they're, uh, ...?

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:24 - ID#317193)
bernatz is entitled to his opinions-that's why I queried him. I disagree with his thoughts but time tells all. The US does not control the world. Economic disruption in Japan will cause untold economic problems in the US. Japan will act to defend it's way of life. Danger presents itself to the US. The outcome is unknown. Buy gold. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:25 - ID#93199)
Fidelity Select Gold Chart
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )

Gold Breakout in progress???

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:26 - ID#411149)
SA golds
Mike Stewart- how bout gime a holler

Tally Ho

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:26 - ID#288156)
FT Fri Mar 27, 1998
Top story:"Aerospace defence groups reveal joint plan
Europe's three largest aerospace and defence companies are expected on
Friday to present the UK, French and German governments with a joint plan
to restructure their industry that leaves important disagreements unresolved."
COMMENT: "...leaves important disagreements unresolved." Four words
that serve as an accurate motif for the European Monetary Union!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:27 - ID#317193)
fiveliter-thanks for the help!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:30 - ID#31868)
SDR_er - excellent posts as usual

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:31 - ID#288156)
FT Fri Mar 27 1998--First capital flow restrictions!
razil restricts short-term investment inflows
Brazil yesterday moved to place restrictions on short-term capital inflows into the country following a sharp rise in foreign investment since the beginning of February.The National Monetary Council partially closed a loophole that allows banks to borrow funds abroad and invest them in dollar-indexed Brazilian bonds, which offer considerably higher interest rates.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:34 - ID#233199)
ALL: Help please - looking for coin dealer

Could I get some recomendations please for a coin dealer NOT in Mn. from whom I may purchase coins by may.

....And yse I promise to pay teh Mn. sales tax :- ) ......

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:38 - ID#288156)
Brazil+Germany=the fissures begin to widen?
Thursday: Futures weigh on Frankfurt
By Michael Morgan, Jeffrey Brown, Emiko Terazono, Peter Hall and
Paul Gregan

Heavy downside pressure from the futures market sent FRANKFURT
steeply lower. At one stage the Dax contract was selling at a clear discount to the cash market irrespective of fair value calculations.

By the electronic close, the Xetra Dax was off 85.13 or 1.7 per cent at
5,029.00, having dipped below 5,000 earlier in the session. "The dollar was weaker, but the main problem was future-driven consolidation," said one dealer.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:40 - ID#31868)
Russ Savage - Jefferson Coin - 800-593-2585 honest as the day is long, maybe longer, he is the only one I deal with.

Many here can point you to others as well.

In addition, you may wish to call Kitco - depending on the type of coin/bullion you are looking for.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:40 - ID#288156)
Brazil+Germany=the fissures begin to widen?
Thursday: Futures weigh on Frankfurt
By Michael Morgan, Jeffrey Brown, Emiko Terazono, Peter Hall and
Paul Gregan

Heavy downside pressure from the futures market sent FRANKFURT
steeply lower. At one stage the Dax contract was selling at a clear discount to the cash market irrespective of fair value calculations.

By the electronic close, the Xetra Dax was off 85.13 or 1.7 per cent at
5,029.00, having dipped below 5,000 earlier in the session. "The dollar was weaker, but the main problem was future-driven consolidation," said one dealer.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:43 - ID#7568)

I read the article over at Nando Times yesterday. I don't know if you can search for historical articles over there so I can't supply you with a direct URL. Nando is

Fivel, Tol1, and anyone else who would care to read my opines on child rearing and this tragedy:

The first question that ought to be asked when something like this happens is, 'how do you make sure that it doesn't happen again'. The only reliable answer I can find, is to remove firearms from the society. If this is the only answer, then the question becomes, is the price of removing this 'freedom' from society worth the payoff. Some like myself will say yes. Others will say no. It's an argument which arouses strong passions and need not be revisited here.

As for apportioning blame, it really doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot. The children and the teacher who have died, are not coming back. The boy who pulled the trigger won't be seeing the light of day for a very long time. His parents lives will be a living hell forever.

As for what it takes to have a 'good' society, I'd side with LGB in that it takes every kid to have two committed parents. Since I'm relatively new at parenting ( a little under 2 years ) my experience in this area is perhaps less than many others who post here. My basic premise has been that children need to be loved and cared for, given an environment which is safe, and allowed to be masters of the universe which you prepare for them. The smaller they are, the more responsive they are to your moods and your feelings. If you smile they will smile, if you laugh they will laugh and if you are down they will sense it.

I honestly believe that if you fulfill their emotional needs when they are very small all the need for 'teaching' of moral and 'correct' behavior will be completely unnecessary. Human beings are social animals. If their strongest social bonds, those with their parents, are healthy, then they will have no difficulty forming positive relationships with others. If on the other hand the parent child relationship is troubled, similar patterns of behavior will occur as the child encounters the rest of the world.

And to all a good night.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:45 - ID#317193)
vronsky re: benaatz
I forgot to mention that bernatz limited his opinion to the next three months. Interesting, might be right on the time frame. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:46 - ID#257136)
@ my brothers TYoung and robnoel: I was having a little sport with Tom. Since you and others
responded off the tops of your heads, I'll tell you.
John Birch, for whom the Society was named, was apolitical. That means, ( if you really don't know ) That he had no political involvement.
Following W.W, II, he was stationed in China and is ( by some ) considered to have been the first casualty of W.W III. He was a Unitred States Army Captain.
Raised in China by Missionary parents, he was considered by Robert Welch-founder of the John Birch Society- to be an apt individual after whom to name the decidedly anti-communist group he founded.
I was just curious as to why the name was tossed about so freely. As usual, it was because, simply put, no one has before this moment taken the time or trouble to inform you.
Please don't be angry-my questions were all in jest!
Pleased to have been of service.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:48 - ID#411112)
SP1 ....tolarant1....after Russ gives you price

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:48 - ID#288156)
Tolerant1~~Thank you!
You too, but that's par for your course--and you had an eagle or two {:- ) ) [I do apologize about the doubles--my mouse is having a breakdown!

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:48 - ID#45173)
Jeb, Panda. Tricky, Tolerant1
As Freud said, "The wish is father to the fear."

NPR had a similar story three evenings ago. "Gold fund investors are the laughing stock of Wall Street" and "Gold mine workers are layed off 'permanently' in Nevada because 'Gold is Dead'." Japan started to suffer its problems immediately following the "Japan, Inc." cover story in Time Magazine in the early 1990's. By now we're supposed to be buying bread with Yen. It's not the Media cause these changes, it's that journalists are on the front lines of history. They report the news right AFTER it happens, when it's over. Gold WAS dead. Now that it is reported as dead, it isn't.

What is your source for the Wiz of Oz parable? It idea is intriguing.

Seven thousand consecutive years of Chinese civilization means 50 years of Communism is a brief experiment. Expect changes.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:49 - ID#31868)
D.A. I will agree that all firearms should be removed from society
but when I say all I mean every weapon on the face of the earth, not one for anybody, or any entity, not one. Until then, no way.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:53 - ID#31868)
EJ - point well taken,
cautiously well taken.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:53 - ID#255284)
From Auckland to Coventry
No, Auckland's power is running below optimum but we have not had cuts for over a week. To put this in perspecive, the area affected was the Central Business District down to the wharves. about a square mile. I am moving to a suburb that has had no problems at all.

Ad. for Dinars? where?

Haven't had time to see if we're all still friends or whether I'm in Coventry...scrolling back now.

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:53 - ID#317193)
a.j. thanks for the education
The use of the name conveyed the thought,yes? Thanks again. Tom

(Thu Mar 26 1998 23:57 - ID#31868)