Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:00 - ID#31868)
Date: Wed Mar 25 1998 07:44
Silverbaron ( Islamic Mint coins are FOR SALE !! ) ID#289357: ...5 more words.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:04 - ID#411112)
aj....I just checked my post on JB,so let me get this straight being anti-commie is A political...

and all this time I thought I was a right wing wako

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:06 - ID#31868)
Aurator - this should work - oops!
Date: Wed Mar 25 1998 07:44
Silverbaron ( Islamic Mint coins are FOR SALE !! ) ID#289357:

Lan Man
(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:13 - ID#31766)
Now thats VOLUME!






(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:16 - ID#339212)
@ Lan Man

Never made any money on volume and noone else did.
People make money on price movements.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:18 - ID#233199)
Disney et al

Tomorrow I must choose between DROOY & RANGY

Is there someone there tonight that compare the porespects for the the two in the ( expected ) gold bull market?

Thanks for all insights


John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:19 - ID#24135)
Dont leave any money laying around .....
For Bad-nuts du crappe
I said that about the Economist .. dont read Barrons.
I'm not in a contest with YOU .. Now would I be seen
at the Mad Hatter's Tea Party with you.
Why YOU would steal the silverware...
Now little one .. you even had RJ thinking that you
were the REAL Bernatz .. But WE know DIFFERENT dont
You are a thief ... pure and simple .. emphasis on the
SIMPLE. See you dont make "calls" lately ... whats the
problem .. Momma dont write and tell you??
Thieves are lower than worm slime ...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:19 - ID#257136)
Robnoel: As one ol' Colorado hand to a relative newcomer to the Mile High State, here it is: I
stated that JOHN BIRCH THE PERSON was apolitical. The Society NAMED after him was decidely anti-commie, anti-Illuminati,anti-Rothschild, anti-international bankers, anti-central banks ( for US ) anti-CFR, anti Bilderbergers-..... I've grown tired. I hunt and peck so must work harder than the average person while typing. Brain gets very far ahead of fingers quite often, also.
If you get a chance see if you can learn about the National Tax Strike Association which was formerly in Denver.
I'd like to say more, but don't wanna use the bandwidth. If you want, email

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:20 - ID#255284)
and it's good bye from him
I am astonished that some people here have thought I am a liberal. It would also astonish my friends who are sometimes taken aback at my miz of anarchistic, humanitarian & libertarian views. Perhaps it is because of the lack of political shading in the US. I keep forgetting sometimes, that shades of meaning do not translate well from NZ to the US. You recognise Democrat, Republican and Dead pinko commies. I am neither and I just cannot understand such vituperation and hatred in your posts. That saddens me even more. Does that make me a liberal? because I see the end of america. Some call it the evil empire. I have no idea why.
Perhaps it is because sometimes in the rush to publish I do not express myself as clearly as i would wish. I apologise to Bart for the bandwidth.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:24 - ID#339212)
@ aurator

Stay around and don't overreact. Your postings are welcome and many people benefit from them.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:27 - ID#401237)
Lan Man (Now thats VOLUME!)

You have not seen anything yet, just wait.

I posted this a while back.
Some things we all should remember:

The % of the population between the ages of 46 and 56 is massive.

These same people have driven all markets for the last 50+ years.

They had a lot to do with Golds last big surge - they still have the rings, coins, and chains in their lock boxes.

They new the value of Gold then and will be quick to recognize the value in the future.

Just as the Dow has been driven to new heights by these people, Gold and Gold mining shares will be driven upward as they rotate out of the Dow.

The laws of supply and demand will rule as never before. There is a finite amount of Gold and Gold mining shares.

If just a small % of this Age group try to buy Gold the markets will be overwhelmed by the demand.

Even the cheap ECO, RYO, TVX, stocks will be in high demand. They will appreciate at multiples that boggle the imagination.

The past few months have shown that the markets are churning and investors are rotating from one type of stock to another.

It wont matter if only a small percentage are able to rotate into Gold and Gold mining shares, we are talking about Billions of US$ trying to buy millions of shares and ounces that dont exist.

The Gold market is already depressed, therefore I am not sure it will collapse when the Dow retreats again. Investment dollars have always eventually sought out the best value and this time will be no different.

There are many clouds on the horizon, it is just a matter of time now.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:29 - ID#266105)
@WizOz as monetary allegory

scholarly article by Hugh Rockoff, reviewed and cited in detail by Nobel
Prize Milton Friedman, studies in details the political landscape of the period
when the book was written by Frank Baum.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:31 - ID#288156)
EJ--re: "Seven thousand consecutive years of Chinese civilization means 50 years of Communism is a brief experiment. Expect changes." YES!!!

All--A site I visit to get back to the center: People are People
The Iraqui Cyber Cafe--always feel a bit of an interloper, but I do
visit on occasion for reasons above stated...

Tolerant1--Fujiwara No Shunzei [1104-1204] Different culture, different time, same human heart...

Will someone,
at the scent of orange blossom,
think of me
when I too
am a person of long ago?


(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:31 - ID#257136)
Aurator: Perhaps I wasn't as clear in my half vast attempt at apology as I could have been. I feel
that you are not a liberal. I did take exception to some of your usage. If I was rude, crude and uncouth, please forgive me. I perceive you as another human who has the same RIGHTS as I.
Don't let anything I've said turn you off. I appreciate your knowledge and perspective.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:32 - ID#427357)
Global Gold Comparative Analysis

SWP1: Tonight I will be posting an exhaustive analysis comparing Norht-American, Australian & South African gold stocks.The report
will be at the same website where Polarbear's brilliant comparison
of DROOY and RANGY is now on view. The analysis coming up in about
30 minutes will blow the roof off of the world gold markets. It is
a joint-effort of John Disney, Brian Hill and myself. The conclusions
will delightfully flabbergast you.

There is really only gold stocks value buy in the world today.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:34 - ID#288156)
Some people are simply unable to make a graceful exit {:-((
Iraqi, Iraqi....goodnight!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:35 - ID#411112)
aj/aurator/John Disney.......aj I'am in Arizona the station is in Johnstown,will check it out

promoting Dr. Schroders effort in repeal emergancy powers act/

aurator,don't take it personal...banter is good for body and soul....they did pull out the heavy guns today...everyone wanted a piece

John what the hel are you doing up at this hour.....waiting for Bill to leave

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:36 - ID#57232)
EURO -- rumor of truth of gold backing of little matter
Voyeur Professor: Your 22:26 -- I agree! The rumor of 30% gold backing of the EURO -- as a percentage of total internal and external currency reserves will make the have - nots want gold. Namely, England ( where central bankers just said they would like CB gold sales to continue to 1/1/99 ) , Japan, US?, and ??China. There is another reason why the ECU countries may be serious about the 30% rule -- and that is their economies are too weak relative to the US economy without some sort of sales pitch - like -- 'our currency is backed by more gold than your currency'.

It is possible that bullish rumors regarding gold may be due to information leaks out of the York EMU conference, not far away from where an economic symposium was held in 1990 at the Univ. of Warwick on returning to the gold standard. 'Exchange Rate Targets and Currency Bands', Eds Paul Krugman, and Marcus Miller -- sponsored by CEPR/NBER.

This is especially interesting if George Soros is long on Deutsche marks, and short on US dollars. That kind of investment is much safer than an equity investment, and equities can vaporize if the market collapses during a dollar crisis.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:38 - ID#427357)
Global Gold Comparative Analysis

I meant to say there is only ONE AREA in the world today to find
real value gold stocks. That is to say where one gets the most
gold ounces for each buck invested.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:40 - ID#256255)
GOLD SOCKS DROP 86,268 ounces ... YEEEESSSSSS!!!

warehouse stocks:
GOLD ( Quoted in Troy Ounce )

321,832 0 104 -104 89,480 411,208
245,742 3,212 0 3,212 -89,480 159,474
567,574 3,212 104 3,108 0 570,682


0 0 39,812,823
-637,840 0 48,818,619
-637,840 0 88,631,442

COMEX Estimated Volumes for Today


Gold 85,000
Silver 13,000
H.G. Copper 8,000

You can see I have added the contract volumes for the day. It seems to me that with the volumes we see and the lack of bullion movement, that spot prices are totally pretend. Today they traded 850,000 ounces. 3,212 ounces were added to eligible stocks and 89,480 ounces were removed from eligible stocks ( about 10% ) of the days volume BUT 36% of the eligible bullion in stock.

Yesterday 6,500,000 ounces traded with no change in the stocks. Since the 17th no change occured in the stock levels for comex gold bullion while contracts traded at a feverish pace.

Well, it seems to me that what we should care about is forward sales prices. They are the prices actually paid to deliver gold bullion. Comex's spot price is a joke because it is a paper price. People are much more interested in taking delivery of forward sales because that is where they can actually get bullion. Comex is for the paper players.

( IMHO )

P.S. Tonight you need ONLY $48,057,489.90 ( at 301.35 ) to buy all the eligible gold at comex, WHAT A BARGAIN. GET while you can it seems to be going fast.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:41 - ID#340302)


(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:43 - ID#401237)
Upcoming Euro Asia Meeting

Many Asia watchers believe the worst is yet to come, and say rising unemployment and inflation could set off widespread social unrest, especially in Indonesia, which already is struggling with its worst crisis in three decades.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:44 - ID#31868)
Aurator - good grief, it was a lousy subject to discuss
when one takes into account all the possibilities for people to unleash pent up thoughts and emotions.

I for one would miss your commentary should you decide to withdraw.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:45 - ID#238422)
John Disney
My brother, I know you like numbers, but I was
not able to talk numbers in regard to Palladium
or Platinum. I feel guilty....

But here is a number a want to share with you.
These numbers were born in the process of thinking
combined with drinking/pickle eating, which
means it's a HiFi numbers. Trust it.

And here it is:

POG will not break through $350/oz barrier in 1998.
However, it will break above $330/oz. High for this
year is going to be in the range of $342-$345/oz.

Reasoning for this number is EURO/US$ and EMU/FedRes.
relationship + influence of Stolichnaya. ANOTHER has
nothing to do with it...let's leave him to deal with
oil and oil-based lubricants...

Brother, if I'm correct, and you will benefit from
this born-to-kill outlook, please ship me your gardener
for 1 week, I want to start raising my own pickles and
I need professional help...After pickles are raised,
I'll give another forecast, which is gonna be even
hotter than my current one...

Your brother Oris

Let's check it out on December 31, 1998...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:45 - ID#257136)
All: Taken from an Arkansas political forum. It is in response to my query about
the validity of the post by D.A.. Here it is:

Sleestak: Since you are a jonbro boy, perhaps you will help me
out on this matter. ( my request for assistance )

There is a forum which I monitor very closely and tonite a fellow
posted the following: ( not verbatim ) The 13 yr old shooter is from
a family with excellent communication between parents and children.

From first glance that seems to be true. Both are said to have been
very good students. One of the boys step-father is said to have served
time in prison for drug offenses at one time though.

The parents are both active in a church and the kid was also.
The parents are both members of the"local gun club".

That's my understanding as well.

The boy is fully trained in firearm use.

They said he was very accurate but somewhat slow. The parents did
have guns but responsibly kept them all locked in a gun safe that
the kids were unable to get into. The grandfather had his guns locked
away in a basement or other building which the boys had to force their
way into. The guns were not just left laying around haphazardly.

This is the current scoop. Again, it could change tomorrow.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:45 - ID#317193)
Hope the SA gold stocks include DROOY, HGMCY and RANGY. They still didn't move much today. Just joshing. Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:46 - ID#339212)
@ Farfel

Friend, I need your honest opinion. DROOY vs. RYO. Get rid of RYO and get into DROOY?. Thanks.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:46 - ID#238422)
John Disney
My brother, I know you like numbers, but I was
not able to talk numbers in regard to Palladium
or Platinum. I feel guilty....

But here is a number I want to share with you.
These numbers were born in the process of thinking
combined with drinking/pickle eating, which
means it's a HiFi numbers. Trust it.

And here it is:

POG will not break through $350/oz barrier in 1998.
However, it will break above $330/oz. High for this
year is going to be in the range of $342-$345/oz.

Reasoning for this number is EURO/US$ and EMU/FedRes.
relationship + influence of Stolichnaya. ANOTHER has
nothing to do with it...let's leave him to deal with
oil and oil-based lubricants...

Brother, if I'm correct, and you will benefit from
this born-to-kill outlook, please ship me your gardener
for 1 week, I want to start raising my own pickles and
I need professional help...After pickles are raised,
I'll give another forecast, which is gonna be even
hotter than my current one...

Your brother Oris

Let's check it out on December 31, 1998...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:49 - ID#317193)
A. Goose???
What are gold socks? Does BC wear those around his ankles too? Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:50 - ID#31868)
DROOY - without question.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:51 - ID#427357)


"With respect to VALUE, South African gold mining stocks far out-shine their North-American and Australian counterparts. Following are the more salient value comparisons - which overwhelmingly convince the most skeptical that South African gold stocks are far superior in INTRINSIC WORTH than those of the other gold producing regions."

The study is posted.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:51 - ID#57232)
A Liberal? G'Nite all!
aurator: I'm amazed that LGB thought your were a liberal, whatever that means. I think showing concern about the plight of others is not the way to define a 'liberal'. I like the Rush Limbaugh definition of a liberal, although I don't like how he says some things because he tends to brainwash rather than encourage independent thinking. His liberal definition is that 'liberals' would outlaw all guns in the USA -- in response to the happenings in Arkansas, and turn a blind eye on all the welfare dependents who have been taught not to get jobs. The US is going the way of Rome with our 'liberal' approach to the haves and the have nots, where the liberal philosophy has actually increased the wealth of the haves, and the numbers of the have nots. That is an unstable situation.

The key to fixing the problems with the USA is not in gun control -- because guns are not the only deadly weapons available -- an axe or a two-by four or a knife works just as well in close quarters. Even a car. The key is in teaching family values, and the respect for the sanctity of life. Unfortunately the 'average' American is working so hard making ends meet that there is little time to be with their children -- who wind up having too much unsupervised leisure.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:53 - ID#339212)

The study is posted WHERE?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:54 - ID#31868)
Myrmidon - hint
g o l d - e a g l e . c o m

John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:55 - ID#24135)
Crusty calling Salty
Salty .. Puleze.
We NEED you .. the animals, thieves, and ego-bums are trying
once again to take over this site..
Wasnt it LGB that launched the attack that I could not
comprehend .. The guy's an obvious nitwit. Ignore him.
Dont goooo.... Salty

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:56 - ID#339212)
@ t1

Where is Polarbear's site?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:57 - ID#411112)
aurator ditto jtf post,we all tend to put folks in boxs I do I said don't take it personal

nite all TGIF

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:57 - ID#31868)
Mymidon - hmmmmmmm
I think you can get PolarBears site address at the bottom of the article. Hang on a second.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:57 - ID#256255)
Sorry .. got excited IT'S Eligible gold stocks Dropped 89,480 ounces.
That takes us back to the stock level on March 16th ( 156,258 ounces ) just before 89,484 ounces were added to the eligible stocks on March 17th. Now, I know many of you think I look for manipulators everywhere, BUT isn't it amazing that these two numbers match to within 4 ounces. Tht's within 0.005%. Sorry, I think the same people that added on the 17th took it back today. ?????

(Fri Mar 27 1998 00:58 - ID#342376)
I went to the site but when I clicked on the article it said not found. Could you briefly post what your favorites are?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:01 - ID#31868)
Myrmidon first two articles listed in the yellow box are what you are looking for. PolarBear's is the second article on RANGY and email address is at the bottom.

I think you have to get rid of the en after gold if it comes out that way in the post.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:02 - ID#339212)
@ T1

Thanks, I am going there. You still have DROOY?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:02 - ID#256255)
Date: Fri Mar 27 1998 00:49
TYoung ( A. Goose??? ) ID#317193:
What are gold socks?

That is where Geese keep their gold coins. ( ;^ ) Think this goose better go and get some more, because comex looks to be running low.

Comex eligible Stocks ( yes I spelled it correctly - I think ) at 159,474.

John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:04 - ID#24135)
You got a good head on your shoulders
For brother Oris ..
I like your topside forecast .. Im a little tense on
the bottomside however. I other words Im afraid the bottom's
not in yet.
As usual your forecasts are done with humility style and
class. ... a touch of the humanity and wit of Dmitri maybe?
The composer not the big Russian from Siberia.
But you posted twice ?? Is that a coded message?? or did you
drop a pickle on the keyboard ??
Oh the swiss guy sent me a big pile of numbers on reserves
and stuff for Europe.. very current.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:04 - ID#31868)

(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:07 - ID#256255)
currency comparison using SALT!!
I would like to try this one more time, with the following changes.

1. Give me the cost in your local currency for Salt ( please give location country and city and weight measurement ) A.Goose Cupertino, California, USA US$ 0.1656 per ounce ( us$0.265 per pound ) .
2. E-mail the information to Salt>> You need to have a space between Salt and Std ( Salt ) .
3. We will collect data until we get a fair representation from countries around the world.
4. Using Salt should give us a good gauge for evaluting the value of various currencies around the world as compared to the US dollar.

Send your cost for salt to Salt , please give city. Country, cost in local currency and weight:
A.Goose Cupertino, California, USA US$ 0.1656 per ounce ( us$0.265 per pound ) ( us$2.65 for 10 pounds ) .


(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:07 - ID#340302)
I have never really followed it...

On the other hand, I have followed RYO closely for about five years.

With respect to RYO, here are the negatives:

Horrible Management...the woman running the show seems out to lunch...their project analysis and forecasting abilities seem dismal.

Too much dependence on one project....Kemess.

Impending dilution of can count on it! No matter where the POG moves, TRILON will end up controlling the equity. In fact, in the worst case scenario ( e.g. if Kemess turns out to have only 10% of its estimated gold reserves ) , the equity could simply be eliminated completely.

Here are the positives...

In the event of a major gold price upswing, most investors will simply buy anything with the name GOLD attached to it. They will not do much of any due diligence. Always happens in a panic...especially a gold BUY panic. Most financial analysts I speak with are simply not up to date with Royal Oak...they still remember the company as it was back in the Early Nineties.

TRILON might surprise everybody and put the chief out to pasture. A new CEO would probably do amazing things to improve the perception of the company. Also be helpful in their battles with the First Nation tribes and environmentalists re: Kemess.

TRILON might decide to effect a merger with another stronger gold company. It is amazing what a new powerful partner can do...they can move mountains in matters where previous management proved to be completely ineffective.

Actually, I can cite a litany of other positives and negatives. Unfortunately, I do not profess to have one scintilla of omniscience about these matters.

So, ultimately, it is a decision you must make in the quiet solitude of your mind.

Good Luck.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:13 - ID#45173)
Gold and Guns fantasy
Communism seems like a bad idea now. Capitalism has done so well for the past 60 years. Communism is discredited. Proven wrong. Seemed like a good idea in 1939, even in America then to a greater extent than ever since, when after a decade of hardship faith in capitalism began to wane, before WWII. If the West had not built a paper temple in the past 50 years, starting with that war, would not the Berlin wall be standing still? And what walls will be built if that paper, ever expanding, increasing, rolled out like an endless green carpet on which our prosperity has been constructed, burns and cannot be rebuilt quickly, when it is in turn discredited? If the correction drags on, and many suffer, perhaps some other form of economic system will then appear more prudent than capitalism, with a correlative political system, necessarily controlling, conservative, perhaps dictatorial, fascistic. The pendulum swings. The gold and guns fantasy of some at this site is a pleasant dream compared to a more likely scenario: confiscation and redistribution of remaining wealth, political power in the hands of majority, those that will suffer the most if things go uncontrollably bad--the least educated, most deprived and angry, who will rule and take vengance on those who once prospered. This is history, a tide that rolls in, and rolls out. Do not hope for such an event to raise the value of your gold. Hope for resolution, cooperation, progress, fairness, compassion, and strength. In the best of all worlds, there comes a series of crises as the debt unwinds, and we muddle through. Hope for that.

John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:17 - ID#24135)
You have a better chance of growing pickles with my camel
For Brother Oris
My 75 year old mother-in-law arrived Capetown from
Australia yesterday. Said BC made a pass at her at the
airport. She wants to go to the press with the story.
What should I do ??
Ill talk to my gardener .. but he cant actually GROW
anything .. he mainly moves leaves around and eats

(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:22 - ID#339212)
@ Farfel

Thank you for explaining the pros and cons. I am going to get some DROOY by selling half of my RYO holdings. Thanks again.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:37 - ID#340302)


(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:44 - ID#411259)
..... Me Too .....


Will someone,

At the scent of lime blossom,

Think of me

While I imbibe

A lonely Corona?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:48 - ID#25588)
XAU Gold
XAU - the xau has formed a very negative wedge and popped though the top into resistance. There might be some follow though in the morning, essentially it's had it in the short term. Look for a move down to test the lows over the next few weeks. April Gold may have some further upside ( $ 5 ) then look for reversal. Objective $285 or lower. Current positions - out of Silver on Monday at 6.30 purchased at 5.60, looking to reenter under 6.00. Short  position of June SnP at 1125; second  at 1114.50 objective 1070.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 01:57 - ID#399119)
@SWPI re: your request for recommendations
I work with Rob at Patriot Trading group=1-800-951-0592, Real People, honest, straight-forward and they don't sell it to you unless it's in inventory. They do not take plastic, only "good checks" call and lock-in your order, send a MO, or cashiers and they ship upon receipt, I've never had delivery in more than 5 days and I'm 2 states away. Prices are at a fair mark-up, I won't begrudge someone their honest livelyhood, we all have to eat and pay the bills. You can shop their prices around, and I have, and find slightly better, but everytime I bought elsewhere, it took 2 weeks or more! to get delivery, even after I had been assured that it was "in-house" and will ship immediately. They also support "The American Freedom Network" radio,shortwave and internet ( ) broadcasts. There is some great programming and guests daily. Its non-militia, "radio free america" P.S Thanks to fundaMETAList and general for their kind welcome in response to my earlier virginal 1st post of Mar.25 2:27

(Fri Mar 27 1998 02:05 - ID#340302)


(Fri Mar 27 1998 02:18 - ID#298259)
aurator...I too would miss your commentary...don't let criticism stop you from saying what you feel... we can all benefit from different views...I have not read all that was written because I don't have all of the facts of what happend... ( like I just recently heard that the grandparents of the 11 year old said that he had been taught at a "very" young age to handle guns and that the boy was transfixed by them ) ...I'm working on my taxes...not much time to lurk...I see you as someone with great compassion...don't stop trying to enligntening us.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 02:19 - ID#252150)
$U.S.@Looking strong--Glad I sold some 0f my ABX near yesterdays close
GLOBEX PRICES AS OF 03/27/98 01:10 AM TRADE DATE: 03/27/98

EURO $ JUN98 94.30 -.5 MEX TIIE APR98 78.00P ----
SEP98 94.24 -.5 J-YEN JUN98 7826 -53
DEC98 94.14B UNCH B-POUND JUN98 1.6786A -24
MAR99 94.15B -.5 D-MARK JUN98 .5514 -8
JUN99 94.12B -1 SWISS FR JUN98 .6782 -8
SEP99 94.10A UNCH CAND $ JUN98 .7091 -14
LIBOR APR98 94.34 -1 AUST $ JUN98 .6742B -35
MAY98 94.35 -1 F-FRANC JUN98 .16488A -12
S&P 500 JUN98 1110.70 -10 M-PESO JUN98 .113825P ----
E-MINI JUN98 1110.25 -50 REAL APR98 .87910P ----
SEP98 1122.75B +25 RAND FUT APR98 .200275P ----
NSDQ100 JUN98 1233.20B +20 KIWI FUT JUN98 .5580P ----
GSCI APR98 169.90P ---- BP/DM JUN98 3.0331P ----
MEX CETE JUN98 80.25P ---- DM/JY JUN98 70.020P ----

(Fri Mar 27 1998 02:23 - ID#340302)
Date: Sun Mar 22 1998 21:33
APH ( Metals Update ) ID#25588:
May Silver - If you're long from 5.60 and want to trade the market try selling at 6.30 and wait for a pullback to 6.00 to re enter. 6.00 should hold if not the move up from 5.60 maybe retraced. April Gold is still under pressure, buy under 285 use a 3 dollar or more stop. XAU looks weak look for it to retest the lows in the low 60's. Buy ABX at $15.00 or less on a spike down.

If you'd followed this man's advice, you would have missed out on the biggest UP move in the XAU for the entire year!!!! And you would be shorting silver right now at a point when it seems to be tracking ( or leading ) gold up!!!

Sorry, APH...but you're just another gold short in a technicians clothing.

And again, all I can tell you, Mr. APH...



(Fri Mar 27 1998 02:26 - ID#340302)
Hey...guess what...



(Fri Mar 27 1998 02:27 - ID#340302)
Hey...guess what...



(Fri Mar 27 1998 02:38 - ID#411259)
..... IRAs & Other Stuff .....

Regarding PM IRAs:

We too use America Church Trust for PM IRAs. Any brokerage could hold the coins or bullion for you, but very few are willing to do so. The problem with an IRA is the metal in not fungible. Each and every coin you have on deposit must be kept segregated from all others. You could scratch you initials in a gold coin, go back in twenty years, and receive the exact same coin back.

Once funds are on deposit at ACT, the metal will be purchased from the dealer of your choice. You tell them you want X coins at X price. ACT will then act as the buyer of the coins. We ship to ACT and are then forever out of the transaction, unless you want to sell, or buy more.

Beginning in 1998, You can now put all pure gold coins + the AE. Silver Leafs will work, so will that 1 kilo silver kookaburra - because they are pure silver. You can not put 40% or 90% silver coins in an IRA. All platinum coins are eligible in addition to all forms of bullion. The best way to put gold in the IRA is the VP; platinum should be the PE or the Leaf. Since this will be stored for the long term, the best way to buy silver in the 1000 oz bullion bars. It is the cheapest way to buy silver, and no worries about taking up space. That is ACTs job.

When doing a rollover, you can have the check sent to you or to ACT. If you have the rollover check sent to you, you can hold these funds for 60 as long as the $ is back in some pre tax vehicle within 60 days. there is zero penalty. On day 61, you owe taxes and penalty, you just took a disbursement.

There are no limits on the number of times you can buy or sell within an IRA or the number of IRA you can have. Once the price goes up, if you want to sell and look to buy it back much lower, you can do so but remember, shipping costs must be figured in because all IRAs are essentially delivery orders. Leverage is not allowed.

I did about a dozen IRAs last year. Since a single mistake in the paperwork would invalidate the account, it can get quite frustrating. Everything MUST be filled out perfectly. We used to send the form to clients but, invariably, there would be some mistake and the whole thing was delayed another couple weeks. We now fill out all forms and leave just the signature line blank for the client. Once the $ is in ACT, you can stay in cash, with interest, as long as you wish. Wait for the right time to buy, no hurry.

When doing a rollover, the time period is entirely dependent on the expeditious processing of you request by your existing IRA holder. Seems most companies don't like to send money BACK to a client and will drag their feet. If you are doing a rollover, give it a month or so to set it up. A new IRA takes just about a week.

PMs in an IRA has a great deal of appeal. If one is of a buy and hold mentality, why not do it in an investment that is inherently long term? The downside, of course, is that you do not possess the metal. If the great Money, Oil, Moral Values Going all to Hell, Loose your Job, Take your Guns and gold, apocalypse in which many on this forum seem to revel with barely controlled glee - ever occurs, you ain't got the gold. They got it, and it may become difficult to get it back. I would never put all my metal in an IRA, but some makes sense.

You can do all of this yourself, just direct ACT to buy the metal from the dealer of your choice.

As for the action today Damn silver is still right in the middle, looking like it wants to go, but failing the key 6.40. It is just as likely we will see 5.80 before 6.40, but I think it will break to the up. With some profit taking tomorrow, expect down in the am. If we close just a bit higher, .10 on silver, $10 on platinum, maybe another 5 or 6 on palladium, the whites will fly. Gold may follow in some sympathy, but its legs are arthritic and weak. Ugly varicose veins criss cross the spindly stick-like legs of our fair yellow cousin, and we must stop frequently to allow the old hag to rest up a bit, catch her wind, and limp up another half dollar. The time to buy gold, will be later and lower.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 02:52 - ID#22956)
crazy, man...
damn near ALL of ya...

away...from the cuckoo's nest


...but not before reposting this *GEM* ( best of far, aside from HepStuff, he cracks me up ) :


Date: Thu Mar 26 1998 14:49

2BR02B? ( @bounced checks ) ID#266105:

Copyright  1998 2BR02B?/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Hey Aurator, big place. I been everywhere, man, breathed

the mountain air, man...

From the inner urban cores to furthestmost ruburbias

and podunks between. Hear a coupla bibbed boys in the next

blue-highwayed 3-calendar restaurant booth and their GPS

John Deere fertilizing, live commodity quotes w/candlestick

power & CD-quality satellite country music. Once worked my way

from ocean to ocean one Shell gas station at time putting up

satellite dishes and fairly recent. Big place, incomprehensible,

unknowable. Anything other is blowing smoke rings. Maybe

NZ is of a size and scope to even begin to get a handle.

Me, I reduce those mediated pixel down to the one they

represent in a day's world for the bazillion in the scan

lines they don't. Like, access denied, NananaNanana.

Here, price of corn headlines, there, predator control

and grazing issues. Like politics and real estate, all local,

parochial and provincial. Which is the only view that likes

to know something of America and Americans. Me & my fat rich

uncle of been everywhere just laugh.


i dig ( uh huh ) . We're toooooo big, man...

go plat.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 02:54 - ID#411259)
..... PuuLLLeeeeeeeeaaaaaaassseee .....

Farfel -

Enough with the, "I don't care, I'm buying more" shouting, OK? It is now second only to 3-2-5 for maximum irritant factor. I'll even make a deal....... I make no more movie reviews, and not a peep else about limes ( maybe one ) , and you quit with the I don't care thingie. Whaddaya think?

I cuationed APH about the 6.30 shorts a couple days ago. The best thing to do with silver in this range, is to wait. I agree with many of your posts, and I am not spoiling for a row. I have been very impressed with APH's approach to the market, and he bears viewing as his calm competence is well evident. APH has called the volatility in silver better than any other on this site in recent weeks.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:03 - ID#22956)
My blossoms are holding up quite well. This summer will prove to be a bumper crop. I'll have some waiting for you on your way to Monterey. By that time Plat should have reached 500, eh? .... ( said EB with a wishful thought ) ....... ( ohmy ) . watch this wonderful currency game.... ( verge of something big )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:05 - ID#340302)
I'm just adopting the methods of the mad Dow crowd and I'm turning mad about gold...I don't care about the charts...I don't care about the fundamentals...and...


And guess is Soros is Buffett is Bronfman is Italy is Switzerland is Germany is China is Russia are nervous Dow investors
...and so will you someday!!!


(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:13 - ID#340302)
...but first I want you to imagine a great bright GOLDen glow inside your mind...then get the chant going in your head as you go about your various business affairs. It ain't too hard to remember the words and in no time at all, you'll get the rhythm 'coz it goes kinda like this...



(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:15 - ID#22956)
the energies want so badly to fill the gap below..... ( today was key reversal day ) . It will happen, with crude, heating, and matter what George Cole says.

And George, again ( ? ) with the gold will skyrocket and the shorts are weak stuff????????!?? Snap out of it man! You should read some of your posts over and over and over and over again....we do ALL the time.

away...from the scratch in the record ( ? )


(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:26 - ID#22956)
salty the movie director......(sure).
looks as though you've had one too many scrapes with the norte americanos.....and they done gone to lynch ya. waddya say mate? Them's a wicked bunch 'o cowpokes I tell ya'. A bit thick about placin blame though. liberals vs. conserv's.........yeah sure....put a freakin label on if ( ... ) . Hollywood..... ( as if ) .... ( ... ) ...uh huh. write a good screenplay about knucklehead kitcoliberalpinkoconservativeguntotinggoldhoardingbitchslappers...


(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:28 - ID#411259)
.....I don't care, I'm saying more .....

Farfel -


Germany, for the first time in the country's history, has leased more than 300 metric tons for forward sales in recent months. The Swiss are getting ready to dump some and have a referendum about lowering gold holding requirements. The Netherlands should be next into the breach. The Italy announcement this week fizzled and made them look like amateurs and fools. With what $ will the Russians pay for this gold that they are buying? Russia is an exporter and producer of gold. They would not buy even if they had the means to do so. True Buffet and China are buying, but India seems to be sitting this one out.

Facts may be viewed through whichever prism you choose. Still, this will not change the facts. Your refrain is, "Don't confuse me with the facts, I've made up my mind'. If you were some poor shcmoe out in the boonies, that may be understandable. But you have access to an incredible array of talent and knowledge and ideas. Rather than assimilate and act according to what the day tells you, you bury your head and shout. Like two of the three famous monkeys, you have no trouble speaking, it is the hearing and the seeing that gives you slip.

I see no problem with buying more, just with paying too high a price. Too many folks hereabouts buy with their heart and not their head.

Movie reviews and lime reports will resume with renewed vigor.....


(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:29 - ID#22956)
ohmy! ( ? )


oh well.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... ( opening/closing drawers ala Fred Flinstone )



gogold...hi ted.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:36 - ID#22956)
he's ALIVE!!
Go get 'em Monex-Boy!! Give it to 'em where it hurts. But, alas, falling on deaf ears. Now, what did you think of The Full Monty? And how often are you fertilizing those limes?? Every 6 to 8 weeks I trust. There is a great deal of sand up in this region...makes for tremendous drainage.....the Avo's love it too. You should see the blooms. Care for some Guacamole with your chips and Coronas?? mmmmmmmmmmm good!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:37 - ID#273227)
Whoever wanted to know about Iridium - the competion to LBG's company, can drop me a note with questions. I'll do my best to answer what I can. I think tonight's questions were about 2000 problem? I skip most posts these days. It is compliant and the government will not be the only ones using it. All it will take is money - it is going to be expensive.

I'm in agreement with RJ about the quality of the short term calls here lately. APH - awesome! D.A., I've been trading PAASF daily with the level II quotes I have - short term moves like the rollover one you made the other day are great.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:43 - ID#255151)

1. I just now figured out what IDCIBM means. 2. Many have e-mailed requesting my "awesome set of links". I discovered that I can't send them en masse on my Webtv, only one at a time. Perhaps a kind, computer-literate Kitcoite would volunteer to compile them, file them, e mail them back to me, and then I could send the entire set. 3. aurator--In my book, you are an indispensable part of Kitco. This forum has shone brighter because of your presence, mate 4. It's getting late but I Don't Care, I'm Going to Bed! Good night fellow Kitcoites!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:44 - ID#276251)
APH: thanks for 1:48


(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:55 - ID#340302)
Your alleged "facts" regarding gold sales and leases have been entirely invalidated by new central bank revelations over the past several months. So go ahead and disseminate your anti-gold misinformation.



And so is Buffett...
And so is Soros...
And so is Bronfman...
And so is Japan...
And so is China...
And so is Russia...
And so is Switzerland....
And so is Germany...
And so is Italy...
And so is France...
And so are nervous Dow investors...

And so will you someday...


P.S. Good Luck.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 03:57 - ID#411259)
..... Produce Fella' .....

The entire RJ lime crop can be had from a single tree in a twenty gallon plastic bucket Don't let the size of my grove deceive, this is a prodigious little bugger who spreads her petals at the mere sight of a hummingbird. Pollinate this, sweetie.

In years of bumper crop, I will be found wandering around the halls of Monex, offering extra limes to anyone who will stop and talk. I think this behavior frightens some of the new brokers; as they have yet to learn how to turn on the insanity once you walk in the office, and turn it off when you leave. You gotta' get cranked up some morns to trade these here metals, and it is easy to slip into excess. Before you know it, you're on a four day lime binge with nothing but rehab and scorn from you peers to look forward too. In a moving market 5 am is too late to start the day. Yet here it is a quarter to one am and I am still a bit wired. Did mucho bars-o-silver and platinum today, and sold some gold against the longs. Hell, profits will kick it at 299, not a risky trade, not with the long whites it ain't.

You still puttin' the calls, or calling puts names or calling for spreading puts or what? HUH? Speak up, ain't got all night. I gotta' be in the office in a little more than four hours. Jeeeeeesh.

Avocados and Coronas on a sunny spring day in central California. Throw in a good turkey sandwich and a lawn chair and you got a deal.


John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:05 - ID#24135)
Crusty calling Salty ..
Be kind to animals .. hug an LGB.
Now you'all come BACK and dont FRET ...
Ignore LGB .. thats ALWAYS the best
policy... .. his moniker should be Richard

(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:06 - ID#411259)
..... Far Fall, Dear Farfel .....

Farfel -

Every fact I quoted can be found in the links of this site. If you are getting your facts from the Free Willy gazette, or the New Wave Elliot Wave, or The Lone Gunman, or Janet Reno's bathroom magazines. You are wrong. And now you are wrong at the top of your voice. If you choose to respond please make some attempt at actually saying something. If not, I understand, as I am done speaking with you.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:08 - ID#340302)
RJ says:

Facts may be viewed through whichever prism you choose. Still, this will not change the facts. Your refrain is, "Don't confuse me with the facts, I've made up my mind'. If you were some poor shcmoe out in the boonies, that may be understandable. But you have access to an incredible array of talent and knowledge and ideas. Rather than assimilate and act according to what the day tells you, you bury your head and shout. Like two of the three famous monkeys, you have no trouble speaking, it is the hearing and the seeing that gives you slip.

F* says:

RJ, why don't you present this sermon to your fellow DOW & NASDAQ investors...the facts are that P/E ratios on these companies are obscenely high especially in the face of declining earnings...the facts are that there is an enormous paper mountain out there composed of derivatives based upon derivatives...there is in fact tremendous inflation out just happens to be hidden in the lofty valuations of the stock and bond markets. There is truly only one safe haven...and that is hard money such as gold and silver. Current valuations of the metals do not begin to reflect their ultimate values when panicky DOW and NASDAQ investors seek refuge from the impending storm.

Now, RJ my bud, you can view these preceding facts through whichever prism you choose. Still this will not change the facts. Your refrain is "Don't confuse me, I've already made up my mind!" Now if you were some poor schmoe out in the boonies, that may be understandable. But you have incredible access to an incredible array of talent and knowledge and ideas. Rather than assimilate to what the day AND THE DOW.NASDAQ/NEW PARADIGM CROWD tell you, you bury your head and shout. Like two of the three famous monkeys, you have no trouble speaking, it is the hearing and seeing that gives you slip.

Sarcasm provided courtesy of...


John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:09 - ID#24135)
Talking Lime Tree Blues
For RJ
What do you fertilize your tree with??
Also my trees leaves look a little
dry and curly ... whats dat ???
Limes are good as GOLD

(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:12 - ID#173410)
@-there's-no-place-like-home----there's-no-place-like-home---toto...quit-chewing-on-hep-rat dad-burned lime lover.....leave the limes alone! they are the
receptacle of seed of the true a pea is in a pod...


(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:16 - ID#358318)
Limes for gold
Where did limes come into the gold discussion.... I must have missed something. It was once said "gold and limes shall not flow in the same direction". Limeys in conspiracy to rebuild the British Empire? Who bought all that gold the CBs have been selling? I was told that lime trees in Sydney ( or was it lemons? ) have nasty insect critters on them that spit poison in your eye. I have indeed seen large cicada-like insects clustered around the citrus fruits, and resolved to stay at least an insect spit away from any citrus tree in Oz. By the way, did you know that Oz is so called because of its great gold mining industry, as in Oz of Au ( stralia ) ? All that stuff about "Terra Australis" is just a concoction to rationalise it- it's really Au ( strineland ) . And finally, have you ever seen a duck eat a cicada? Gulp...bzzz bzzz ( sound of buzzing emanating from duck's gullet ) This occurs when cicadas drop from trees in cold weather and a duck happens to be passing ( I say this as a first hand witness ) . Er... go gold

John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:22 - ID#24135)
News Flash from RSA
for Polarbear and RSA stalkers
Randfontein and Rangold have broken downtrends ..
look out for major action .. Harmony may also make serious
moves on heavy volume.

For RJ
admire your courage ... However if in the remote event that
farfel is right and you are wrong ... you got a serious egg
on the face problem ... humility is the watchword in the gold
market because NOBODY ever calls it right ... least of all
heprat's MOM.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:25 - ID#411259)
..... .!... .....

Farfetched -

Perhaps you have had head you head buried in the sand for the past months, or are not all that keen on observation. I trade precious metals for a living, for the largest bullion dealer in the world.. It is all I do all day long. I sell gold, pal. When I say don't buy it, I'm taking money out of my own pocket.

Perhaps, like an unhappy childhood, you have some wretched story about being sodomized buy some slick broker, and now rail against them all. How long have you been repeating your mantra? From 400? 380? 350? 300? All the way down? If you imagine yourself clever, read you words, contradictions reside within, and logic is nowhere to be found.

This will be our last exchange. I'm starting to get warmed up, and I'm a little cranky this late on a work eve so this is just the perfect time to flay some fledgling financial phillie, but the challenge you offer does not heat the blood, and I would rather just go to bed.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:26 - ID#340302)
...the key to gold getting off the ground is that gold investors must have complete, incontrovertible faith in their beliefs...they must adopt the same methodology employed by Dow and Nasdaq investors throughout this decade. Turn a deaf ear to the distortions of the crowd...expunge your fears in the face of negatives hurled your way by the crowd...because at a certain point, the Wall Street crowd will have a rude awakening...they will be confused, frightened, and alarmed...just as so many of you have been throughout the past few years.

It is the goldbugs' belief in this Truth that will allow increasingly anxious, nervous Dow/Nasdaq investors to leap onto the bandwagon of gold investment. Weak, fragile, frightened people always gravitate toward those they perceive have the answers...toward those who they perceive are guided by axiomatic principles. If these same weaklings perceive weakness and doubt in you, then they will look elsewhere for stronger individuals to guide them. So, you must be unwavering in your firm belief of the values of hard assets.

The only reason the Dow/Nasdaq have risen with such velocity is that people perceive that Wall Street is strong...that they have all the answers...that they are in connection to some absolute Truth.
Wall Street succeeded in creating this perception by following rigid rules at the beginning of the decade...all negatives about stocks and bonds would be turned into positives...all facts that undermined Wall Street's progress would be denied as though they simply did not exist.

Learn these lessons and practise them...and you will witness the most amazing gold/silver bull you have ever witnessed in history.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:27 - ID#266105)

Forgot to mention coasting along border to border and
more regionalized jaunts. Blindfolded and deposited in
Frisco I could smell it, isolation tanked I could feel

(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:31 - ID#340302)
You say you trade on behalf of the world's largest bullion purport to have special insight into the direction of PM's...

Hey...guess what?



(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:47 - ID#411259)
..... SA limes? They'd be upside down, wouldn't they? .....

JD -

I have no serious argument as to the direction with our far flung fellow. Gentlemen may disagree. To find who was right, just count the $ at the end. The rest is obvious. My bone of contention was his post of all these "Buyers" of gold, when some are sellers, and some - China and Russia - are impossible to quantify.

I ask you. Who else on the forum has been as consistent, and correct about timing and amounts of CB gold sales? I still remember being called a fool last Summer when I told the world Germany was selling. When I arrived on this forum, gold was 350 and I announced gold would fall below 300 by the end of the year. I was roundly trounced by the same people that are calling for the big rally today. If they had the courage of their convictions, all their $ would be gone now by simply acting on their own market insights.

I do agree with you though, tomorrow is unknowable and I make no claims to such. But the forces behind the move; they may be seen with clear eyes. Most folks around here are looking for the power behind the moves to such an extent, the entire market passes them by and they are left with blank stares, empty wallets, and soulless eyes.

I simply think gold will retest the lows. Everything, and I mean absolutely everything, points to 280. Maybe a little limp up to 310 - 315, but 280 - 285 will happen before June. The only people seeing bulls in the near term future for gold are those that wish them there.

Been feeding the limes Miracle Grow, which may be the problem. Come spring, gotta' go to the citrus mix. I will save the crop, and I will save the farm. As God as my witness, I will never go without limes again!!!!!!!


(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:48 - ID#266105)

one of my favorites, stepping out in the midlands somewhere
from a bowl of soup and a couple brits touring first time,
eyeing grain to the horizons, one to the other, low whistle,
'goddamn king george'

sorry, good music

(Fri Mar 27 1998 04:50 - ID#340302)
@ALL...IN RJ'S 04:47, YOU CAN NOW SEE...
...evidence of compromise, concessions, and doubt.

He is weakening in his beliefs because he knows he is wrong.

Once he admits fully to his erroneous beliefs, then he will join the great gold bull.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 05:02 - ID#411259)
..... Nay special insight - farfel fellow .....

I began trading metals for a living in 1984. I have risen to the number three broker at Monex, the largest bullion dealer in the world. $880 million opening trades to individual investors in 1997. We have been here 30 years while the rest have come and gone. We are without peer anywhere in the world.

Only number three you say? Out of nearly 100 brokers, the only two guys that do better than I have at least a ten year head start on me. Forget false modesty. A carpenter may admire his cabinet, a plumber reveres a clean pipe, and I'm pretty damn good at trading metals.

Your response to these credentials, and the myriad of accurate calls I have made here over the months, is derision and scorn. Your prejudice is so deep that you somehow transformed me into a DOW moonie or something. You do not think before you write, I can only conclude you do not think before you buy.

If the latter is true, feel free to call me. I will sell you all the gold you want at a lower price than you can find anywhere else. Takes money though. Got any?

R. J.

800-949-4653 ext 2262

(Fri Mar 27 1998 05:06 - ID#384350)
Financial Times Lex column says
"The Bank of Japan is printing money at a hefty rate, evidenced by its assets growing 42% in the year to February. So far this is barely spilling into the economy".
Of course it isn't spilling into the Japanese economy. Japan's low interest rates are providing easy credit for the hot money which leaves Japan and ends up on foreign shores in US Bonds and Equities ( and elsewhere ) .
This is referred to as the Yen-Carry trade. It is fanning the flames and inflating the bubble of the West.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 05:57 - ID#228283)

This place was SMOKIN' tonight!!!! In the words of that grate ( no spelling error ) Rodney King,"Cain't we all jes' git along?"

HEY, youse guys,y'all forgot that when one wants to buy and one wants to sell...guess what... that's what makes a MARKET!

NO OPINION is a bad opinion. It is an OPINION which, I thought, everyone here was entitled to. That's what makes tis site GREAT. So chill out .

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:12 - ID#228283)

Your deep insights will be missed by many, but most of all by me. Because of your intrinsic posts some shallow thinking individuals are unable to grasp or handle truth and wisdom in their meaning.
You wre "flamed" and it hurt. Please consider the source and cimcumstances, take some time, but really think about returning to this forum.
If I can be so presumptuous my e-mail is anytime, anyplace.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:14 - ID#237149)
Conspiracy Thoery
I had the chance to check out conspiracy theory today and had the weirdest feeling half way thru the movie. After listening to all of Gibson's paranoias, I had the same feeling as when I'm reading some posts here on Kitco...Oil scams, WB's plans, The DOW takeover, CB control, plans to destroy the money supply thru derivatives, 3rd world war, end of the world, etc,etc,etc. In the movie Gibson gets hit badly by a federal secret agency. I wonder if some of the Kitcos here that haven't been writing for a while are also under sea after a secret agency realized that what they were writing here is actually true!
Just kidding! I'm not at that paranoia stage as alot of people here are ( not yet ) . I stay with the FUNDAMENTALS of the metals and thats why I believe that the white metals are going up short term and gold is heading far south. I do not recommend buying more gold right now, unless if you have a paranoia and if you don't care ( you'll buy more anyway ) .

Bill El Zebub
(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:16 - ID#261352)
@farfel...My gut and the look on some CNBC faces are saying A.G. may
get his inflation which will save Asia and slow the DOW bull.
Will OPEC hold together? Is this that oil/gold ( Another ) thingy?
Are you planning to try and play a AU price increase prior to
a DOW fall? Historically it has been so.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:17 - ID#235378)
METALS QUOTE from Thurs Eve Infobeat
"Gold again attracted most interest, but much of the volume was a
continuation of the April/June rollover," said Carlos
Perez-Santalla, a COMEX floor trader with Hudson River Futures.

The focus in the gold market remains on what role gold will play
in the planned European Central Bank's ( ECB ) reserves when
decisions are made in May, analysts said.

"Much hot air is talked about what the European central bank will
or won't do about gold sales by the national central banks once
the ECB is formally created in May," said Merrill Lynch analyst
Ted Arnold.

"If you speak to officials in various central banks and treasury
offices you soon come to the realization that the Maastricht
Treaty provisions covering the ECB's control over gold reserves
left in national central bank vaults are not iron clad rules, but
much more like articles of faith.

"The general view seems to be that individual country members and
the ECB will enjoy considerable flexibility over gold policy, so
we would be extremely surprised if the gold mobilization policies
of the individual central banks did not continue more or less
unhindered after the ECB is created in May," he said.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:24 - ID#330175)
*go Gold*.............................and 'Utes'
April Gold up 1.20 @ 3-0-3 ( Holy Cow ( to quote 'The Scooter' ) ~~~~

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:30 - ID#26793)
Sanwa Bank has 940 billion yen of problem loans to dispose of

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:35 - ID#26793)
You've got to be kidding. You are one of the good guys. Can you contact me directly?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:35 - ID#235378)
WhisperingLow (BIG BANG! What is That?

It seems we should be pooling our knowledge about the BIG BANG that is suppose to take place April 1.I have wondered what it is. It just sounds like some ominous SURPRISE.

Upon doing a little research I find that it is apparently a deregulation of Japanese Banking practices that will change a number of things.

1. They will now will be able to join up with foreign businesses such as German Insurance companies and get envolved in total financial services worldwide.

2. They plan to make investing much more accessible to the general public by lowering the minimum investment to 1 million yen and by discounting the brokerage fees. Investors also will be less restricted from selling a security once they have bought it.

I believe this will have a great impact on the movement of money. Japanese of limited means may now have expanded choices for obtaining greater returns on their investment yen than they presently have in low interest bank deposits and US Treasuries.

We may begin to see some US Treasuries being cashed in as Japanese prepare themselves for this new opportunity. The impact of this would be downward pressure on the dollar with an eventual improved value for precious metals.

This is my impression with the very limited research I have gathered to date. If I am misinformed, please feel free to correct or elaborate. This could be important news that may effect kitcoites in a number of ways.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:36 - ID#266105)
poe/the gold-bug

"Dey aint no tin in him, Massa Will, I keep a tellin' on you," here interrupted Jupiter; "de bug is a
goole-bug, solid, ebery bit of him, inside and all, sep him wing -- meber feel half so hebby a bug in my



(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:41 - ID#26793)
Recall my post about Kodak opening a plant in China? Look at this dirty trick.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:43 - ID#330175)
'Loonie'(Looney) Tunes

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:46 - ID#26793)
Johnson Matthey says gold more likely to go up than down from these levels

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:47 - ID#330175)
Aurator......Don't even think of leavin us------------Guns-N-Roses
Remember I have a loaded AK-47 to force you back ( if necessary,eh )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:49 - ID#330175)
Mornin....Weather= 40 degrees ( and climbing ) with partially sunny-skies..

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:52 - ID#384350)
German Calls
If Soros did this, I think by doing so he would be looking at 2 possiblilities:

1 A delay of the Euro in the light of the Year 2K bug
2 The Euro will be stronger than anticipated

Calls provide a leveraged way of betting on the outcome.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:53 - ID#26793)
We are 47F and sunny, going to 60 at the shore and up to 70 inland. Daffodils are out where they face south. Best of all, no tourists yet.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:54 - ID#427357)

1998's big play will be the South African Gold Stocks.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 06:55 - ID#403335)

If the XAU is forming a wedge, wouldn't it project prices lower

than just a "test" of the bottom? Always enjoy your input!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:03 - ID#26793)
Just who is running Japan anyway? Maybe the U.S. Treasury?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:05 - ID#401460)
OURO__A (Conspiracy Thoery)

It is not a conspiracy thoery, it is historical fact.
Do some research and you will see that It is business as usual.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:10 - ID#289357)
aurator @ sayonara

Dr. Wordsmith, my ( our ) friend - you are the bright spot in my morning each day as I read your posts....... You are needed here for your humor, your feelings for others, and your very special view of the world. I implore you to please reconsider leaving the forum. Please contact me at for some friendly persuasion and conversation.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:11 - ID#185448)
Someone is expressing grief and gets slaughtered by the gold&guns-lynch-thy-neighbour-crowd in a disgusting way. That kind of attitude and the way it was shown lacks politeness and tolerance.

Aurator is one of the most valuable posters on this site. He deserves our respect.

At least you have mine.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:13 - ID#401460)
Adobe Systems

Adobe was up considerably yesterday, but after the bell they reported lower earnings. Trading has been halted. This will, or should, cause problems today in the markets - no sign of it having an affect as of yet. S&P Futures +5.80.

Other news, Clinton to stop money going into new REIT real estate investments - probably taking money away from the US Treasuries. They will now attack anything that looks better than a Bond. I guess that means they will be closing down Las Vegas this year.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:19 - ID#401460)

Remember McArthur set the whole thing up.
We are their defence, their military etc.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:21 - ID#276251)
All: Prof. Galbraith listened and was amazed
"In short, it seemed that for once that the top leader of the Federal Reserve was looking forward alertly to the grave dangers we now face. In this, Greenspan stands in contrast to President Clinton, who issued a balanced budget last week to the usual idiotic fanfares; to the IMF, whose self-contradictory analysis and prescriptions for deflation in Korea can be read on the Internet ( ) ; and to those in Congress, like Senator Lauch Faircloth, who imagine that allowing free markets to deflate the world economy would be a good thing, and to those, like Senator Connie Mack, who would rewrite the Fed's charter to make it focus exclusively on prices. Greenspan also stands opposed to those within the Federal Reserve, a clique of regional bank presidents for the most part, who argue reflexively for higher interest rates, meeting after meeting, irrespective of changing conditions in the world outside.

The clear implication, though Greenspan did not spell it out, is that the world may shortly need an expansionary policy -- dare I say a global Keynesianism? -- led by the United States. Lower interest rates should come soon, to offset the rising real rate as prices fall, to relieve debt burdens denominated in dollars and to try to stabilize the capital markets. But fiscal policy, now stuck on the idea that the U.S. Federal Government should be the only economic entity in the history of capitalism that doesn't routinely issue new debt, may also have to expand, to help offset our lost export sales with some combination of new public investment and even, yes, perhaps a tax reduction ( for instance, raising the Earned Income Tax Credit ) . "


(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:23 - ID#35767)
Good mernin Ted and Donald, weather here in No. Virginia is sunny and 65 heading for 85 this afternoon. Partly sunny and high 70s thru Mon.

Gold is looking better. Are we through the 100 day moving average? They have to keep the dollar strong or this financial train could unravel. The cheerleading on CNBC is incredible. Its almost like rising financial markets are some sort of entitlement. I rarely get to watch it but when I had the chance yesterday I could not believe grown people could act like that. Comments..

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:33 - ID#287358)
Wispering Low

You cut out the most important point on that reuters article. The article state that more gold sale would be via swaps. Please repost the whole article for everyone.. I'm unable to locate it now. Thank You

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:41 - ID#287280)
CNBC--from London-- before I had the chance to turn sound down {:-)

At Yeltsin, Kohl, Chirac meeting--Yeltsin seemed confused; twice aids had to step in--once, when he asked for Questions to remind him that it wasnt a press conference. So...

They also had gold up $2.65 ? Their explanation? because of the bounce
in oil prices...well, at least they are recognizing the price of
gold is going up...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:42 - ID#402191)
Y2K and D10K

Experts predict financial software may go haywire if the Dow Jones

Industrial Average tops 10,000. Many software programs are designed to

handle only four-digit Dows, says one software designer, who says that

concern over the D10K problem soon "will spawn the usual parade of

opportunists" to fix the bug. ( Wall Street Journal 26 Mar 98 )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:44 - ID#289357)
ROR @ CNBC cheerleading

I bailed out on the CNBC cheerleaders ( and the US stock market ) just after they had their 8000 celebration ad nauseum... Jim Rogers is the only guy I respect there, and I'm not too sure about him anymore ( haven't seen his latest thoughts on the gold market ) .

When the US markets ( finally ) go South, these puppies better head for the hills, 'cause they will be prime meat for the enraged masses to make war on.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:45 - ID#401460)

Yeltsin looked bad, he acted like he was drunk again.

The #2 Man incharge has only one year of experience.

One of the loose cannons rolling around on the deck.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:45 - ID#410194)
More and more fund managers seem to exit shorts and several of them are even willing to get long! While the move above 302 in the cash market is a key development to mount anything other than a short covering rally, it has been done without any major headlines of any consequence to get as high as the market is currently.

An OTC expiration today has caused many funds to remain flat which might mean that after expiration some more could be forced to buy.

It looks like a few closes above "310" would start some hedge covering which could result in an even more agressive short covering rally.

In Silver, there were only 19 deliveries yesterday and a small decline in Comex stocks keeps the market balanced against selling interest.

A US company ( Asarco ) says they see a 105 million ounces ( ! ) deficit in 1998. They also went on to say that it was surprising that it took since 1990 for the market to react to the deficit. On the "objective" side though, let's not forget that it's natural for "Asarco" to talk the bullish case because the overall $1 increase in Silver prices allowed the company to add 13.5 cents to its share price!

Comex stocks will continue to play a major role in the near term price swings. Let's watch them carefully.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:46 - ID#410194)
Gold & Silver news
More and more fund managers seem to exit shorts and several of them are even willing to get long! While the move above 302 in the cash market is a key development to mount anything other than a short covering rally, it has been done without any major headlines of any consequence to get as high as the market is currently.

An OTC expiration today has caused many funds to remain flat which might mean that after expiration some more could be forced to buy.

It looks like a few closes above "310" would start some hedge covering which could result in an even more agressive short covering rally.

In Silver, there were only 19 deliveries yesterday and a small decline in Comex stocks keeps the market balanced against selling interest.

A US company ( Asarco ) says they see a 105 million ounces ( ! ) deficit in 1998. They also went on to say that it was surprising that it took since 1990 for the market to react to the deficit. On the "objective" side though, let's not forget that it's natural for "Asarco" to talk the bullish case because the overall $1 increase in Silver prices allowed the company to add 13.5 cents to its share price!

Comex stocks will continue to play a major role in the near term price swings. Let's watch them carefully.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:46 - ID#287280)
Sorex--" Lower interest rates should come soon, to offset..."
and we have seen how well THAT has worked in Japan! {:- ) )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:47 - ID#287280)
Highrise--Some days it looks as if NARY a cannon is tied
DOWN! {:- ) )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:49 - ID#330175)
Will WE get DOW 9,000 TODAY???
S&P Futures up 7.70 and it sounds like Boris is back on the booze~~~~

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:51 - ID#330175)
ROR................and your weather
Tooooo hot for MOI~~~~~~

(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:52 - ID#401460)

YES, It is a wonder none have exploded.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 07:53 - ID#410194)
Changes ahead?
US Bonds and US Dollars may haven entered a phase in which they are now fighting a losing battle:

November and December sales of US Treasuries from the Japanese totalled 8.6 billion.

Foreign accounts may have sold for as much as 9.6 billion in the 4th quarter!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:08 - ID#401460)

Japan and Asia Bond sales

This is why they are after the Tax Deferred Annuities and REITS, watch out for pension funds and other retirement funds to be attacked by the liberal politicians now that the bonds need buyers.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:16 - ID#31868)
J. Rodgers said last week on CNBC that gold was going nowhere.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:19 - ID#256255)
How about that drawdrown in comex eligible gold!!!! Down 89,480.
321,832 0 104 -104 89,480 411,208
245,742 3,212 0 3,212 -89,480 159,474
567,574 3,212 104 3,108 0 570,682

Only 159,474 ounces of eligible gold.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:20 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Brother John, I posted twice by mistake, by the way,
I never drop pickle on my keyboard, it's a great sin
in regard to pickle...

Look at the first line of the second paragraph:
"....a want...", I wanted to correct it to "...I want..",
but the first post already flew away without correction.

So, I posted again corrected post #2.

Sad to hear about your "mother-in-law and BC" collision.
What can I say? Sh*t happens...Just because she is from
Australia and has a lot of life experience doesn't give
BC any right to feel that he is the man, or may be he
thought that at least in the case she is not gonna sue him?

Thanks for info on your gardener, I'll get one from
Siberian village, he should know about pickles ( and good
moonshine?!? ) for sure...

Brother Oris

(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:22 - ID#289357)

Maybe Jimmy needs to saddle up his little BMW bike and get back out in the real world for a while.....

(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:25 - ID#289357)
A. Goose @ COMEX Elligibles

I make that just North of $48 MM to buy the lot ... Mr. Soros, Are you listening???

(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:25 - ID#287280)
Tolerant1--Jimmy believes the the
have absolutely no 'feel' for gold as a store of value. He's right...they are PRICERS. We know they are only a part of the war. Jimmy also has

a very LOW opinion of MBAs {:- ) ) [which is rather interesting for a professor of finance!]

(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:33 - ID#25588)
Farfel 2:23 Post
Farfel - Get you facts straight. No where does it say short Silver in the post you refer to. What it does say is to lock in profits of $3500 on recommended positions taken at 5.60 and wait for another LOW RISK entry point. A 100% return in 3 days on your margin money. The XAU didn't look promising then and it still doesn't. You should pay closer attention to the charts .The biggest rally of the year was in January, when the XAU bottom at 61.23 on 1/12 and rallied to 79.01 0n 1/28. Today we're 2.5 % above that close, Big Deal.

Farfel, you're another frustrated gold bug hoping that the markets will somehow bail you out of ill advised positions taken at much higher price. Some day you'll be right. In the mean time the skilled investor/trader will have gained multiple profits with low risk and still be in position for the big move. While you're waiting around sucking air, buy more gold, I doubt you have any money left to buy it!

John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:43 - ID#24135)
Dont get too close to the APE cage.
For Salty
We need you to add your unique brand of humour and class to
this group .. cmon salty .. part of kitco is like a zoo and
you have to walk past the cages where they keep the apes
You cant let an ape hurt your feelings ... apes aren't
Just toss em a banana and watch them play with their tires ..
you know like "325" "325" "cherripee" and "buy silver" and
"you're an idiot" ... Cmon dont be offended .. they're there to

(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:49 - ID#287280)
JJJapan's Financial Woes and the Hopes for Big Bang
Fujiwara Sakuya, "Japan Echo"
An interesting read

(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:54 - ID#280215)
Glenn - Rollover Week
Glenn: Thanks for your warning. I am aware that this is ocurring, but as I said, I'm watching to see if the short covering CONTINUES on High Volume. Nothing is for sure yet, but encouraging. As I said, ( and I am probably one of the most cautious around ) there still needs to be a Weekly confirmation. I am watching this issue closely. If the high volume short covering keeps up, then you have to consider that this may be more than just a rollover. Time will tell in the next few days. Always appreciate your info.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:54 - ID#26793)
What do you expect from CNBC? The brokers buy all their ads, how can they possibly give honest commentary? It is part of the mania. I was in a business office Tuesday, they have nothing to do with any aspect of finance but the TV set was placed where everyone could see the ticker on CNBC. Everyone is in this thing.

My son lives in Northern VA; e.mailed me the weather report this morning. You folks are going to have a great weekend.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:55 - ID#237149)
APH,I agree with. Nothing better that several small gains at low risk. I'm waiting for a better time to get back in silver though. Not sure wether it'll take off from here, or swing back to $6.00. I have the feeling its more on the upswing than downswing,but more for now I'm going to wait another couple of days.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 08:58 - ID#237149)
Sorry, it has been a long night:

APH,I agree with you. Nothing better than several small gains at low risk. I'm waiting for a better time to get back in silver though. Not sure whether it'll take off from here, or swing back to $6.00.I have the feeling its more on the upswing than downswing,but for now I'm going to wait another couple of days.Good luck.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:02 - ID#287280)
Why the WTO is going to 'demand' that China join [snigger, snigger]
New Asia miracle possible in three years, says Wolfensohn
A new Asian economic miracle is possible within three years, and the second one will have stronger foundations than the first, World Bank President James Wolfensohn says.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:02 - ID#31868)
SilverBaron - SDR_er
Jimmy has gotten more and more wimpy since being on the CNBC payroll. And I am truly worried about Maria B, I think somebody shot her up with Daffygen, look at her lips, and then draw back a little, now you tell me, is she starting to look like Daffy Duck or what?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:05 - ID#256255)
Date: Fri Mar 27 1998 08:25
Silverbaron ( A. Goose @ COMEX Elligibles ) ID#289357:

Your right Silverbaron, $48.208,990.20 ( with gold at $302.30 ) . The number of people that can put that away without blinking is scary. How many 100 millionaires are there? Must be millions ( :^o

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:09 - ID#280215)
Soujourn -- EWAVE
Caught your post to M Stewart regarding Ewave, and agree. I've found that if you rely on one indicator, you may get lucky sometimes, but you'll lose your ass most of the time. If you use EWave as just another indicator such as MACD, Stochs, Volume, Open Interest ( with no one indicator having any more weight than the other ) it works best. If all indicators point in a particular direction, especially if it's confirmed in more than one time frame ( eg., Daily and Weekly ) your odds are better.

Based on multiple indicator confirmations, I may load up in a particular direction, but being mr conservative ( the wimp that I am ) , I still buy insurance and buy a few options in the opposite direction. I guess I learned from past mistakes of laying all the money in one direction even if it all points that way.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:10 - ID#384350)
low Japanese rates
Low Japanese rates seem to have helped the bubble outside of Japan as people borrow Yen, exchange them for foreign currency with which they invest in higher yielding foreign investments. They in turn, make money on the spread and help to inflate world assets.

Only now are they talking about serious public spending, and a tax cut is still not certain.

Knowing that the Bank of Japan has not been the most ethical ( recent resignations ) , why do you think that they have opted for a near zero interest rate policy as opposed to a policy of lower taxes, and higher govt spending?

Does anyone see any conflicts of Interest?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:12 - ID#289357)
A. Goose

I can't believe that one of the big Brokerage houses hasn't jumped at the opportunity. Less than $50 Mil is chump change, I think, for the big outfits like Solly and Merrill. It can't be because nobody but us has noticed, can it??

Wait until it gets down to $10 Mil or so, and the wolves will be at the COMEX door.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:14 - ID#31868)
SDR_er -Wolfensohn should keep his pie hole shut,
stop complaining about congress and send his own money to the IMF, obviously he built his fortune using the other guys money. In this instance he is talking about Congress, which means he is talking about my money. Wolfensohn can kiss my avocados.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:22 - ID#287280)
The battle against gold as money--the dinar
Headlines from DNYA March 27, 1998 Friday
Ice Thaws between the Military and the Civilian
Civilian-military traffic was heavy yesterday in Ankara before
the National Security Council meeting scheduled for today.
Commander Karadayi had meetings first with PM Yilmaz then
with President Demirel. Then the President and PM Yilmaz had
a meeting. After a total of 9 hours parleys, it seems that
concensus is reached.
National Security Council is to have its scheduled meeting today.
Though no statement was made after the parleys, the tension
between the commanders and the government, concerning "fight
against fundamentalism," seems to have eased. The only
comment about the meetings came from PM Mesut Yilmaz, who
said: "Everything is allright, no need to make a statement."

One is reminded of another battle against believers...
Tertullian [160-225]
As often as we are mown down by you, the more we grow in numbers; the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the faith.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:25 - ID#269245)
In agreement with my anticipations regarding oil...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:32 - ID#287280)
A. Goose, SilverBaron--Many Donald Trump egos out there. One wou ld expect
one of them to succumb to the temptation of creating such a stir!
In truth, I'm not at all sure there is physical gold at Comex that
anyone can buy for any price...certainly not for what we are pleased
to call "spot". Spot is "y" price in the paper equation; the "x" is
whatever the forward sale price of the gold is...and that would
probably have to be an average of the paper forwards...ergo: the market price at which one can obtain physical Comex gold is a moveable feast...but one truly questions whether the "spot" price has meaning! {:- ) )
Tolerant1--I don't think they're 'real' people. They ARE the shadows
on the cave wall. Let's build up the fire...{:- ) )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:34 - ID#269245)
SDRer, a good article
When Asia recovers, it will not be a miracle. If I read you correctly, I agree with your skeptcism concerning China and the WTO. Asia is a power to be reckoned with. The West would be wise to screw their heads on tight and not to underestimate Asia. ( yeah, as if! ) - c

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:34 - ID#287338)
It's a sign!
Am I seeing this correctly? Gold and the dollar are moving up together???

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:35 - ID#25588)
RLM - The wedge indicates lower prices from the high of the wedge, not necessarily new lows. It depends on how it fits in with the rest of the price chart that determines how low the price may go.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:42 - ID#287280)
Donald--Yes! ...and then there are the liability lawyers constantly consueling...
Tolerant1--re: Maria B--It is necessary to avoid Maria B presence
for MANY reasons, not the least of which is her relentless 'cheerfullness' [Meow]

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:42 - ID#31868)
Clone - you follow oil - you might have an interest in
ERHC - Environmental Remediation Holding Company on Nasdaq -

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:45 - ID#289357)
I don't think I understand exactly what you are saying - didn't the stocks that converted from 'Elligible' to 'Registered' yesterday, change ownership ( ?? ) at whatever the spot price was at the time?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:45 - ID#287280)
Clone--well said! The West's ability to ignore the "bleeding obvious"
is a kind of 7th wonder of the irrational world...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:52 - ID#269245)
tolerant - Thank you. A very interesting graph, too. will investigate further.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:52 - ID#341189)
It's conceivable to me that there will be a giant class action suit against CNBC and GE when this whole thing falls apart. I wonder what kind of arrangements they have for appearances in exchange for adds and how their whole operation would look with a little sunlight.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:53 - ID#31868)
I try.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:55 - ID#411149)
Hey folks!- we got a MUST READ story over at golden-eagle, remember
to delete the EN on golden to get there

Talllly Hoooooooooo here we go...............UP Up and AWAY

(Fri Mar 27 1998 09:57 - ID#256255)
Date: Fri Mar 27 1998 09:32
SDRer__A ( A. Goose, SilverBaron--Many Donald Trump egos out there. One wou ld expect )

I think you are right. Comex spot price is a pretenders game. Eligible stocks dropped 30% yesterday. Major drop you would think. BUT the paper trades for yesterday were 8,500,000 ounces.

The real SPOT price is what bullion can be had for!! Whether its a forward sale/delivery or a CB sale/delivery. ALL of which are higher than the PRETEND COMEX spot price.

I am not sure that if somone walked into comex today with $50 million, that they would be allowed to purchase all the available bullion!!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:05 - ID#25171)
The Belgium government said today that following a recent 299 T sale, it would scrap a plan for the bank to cut its holding by minting commemorative coins.
This removes 133 T from the market as the proposed legislation is being canceled.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:10 - ID#256255)
Date: Fri Mar 27 1998 09:45
Silverbaron ( SDRer ) ID#289357:

I don't know how we can tell for sure? All I can say is that on march 17th eligible rose by 89,484:

156,258 89,484 0 89,484 0 245,742

Its held steady until yesterday at 245,742 when it dropped by 89,480. That's a change of 0.005% from the March 17 amount. Could be the same folks pulling their bullion back???? Other than looking at the numbers I don't know how to get names and numbers ( :{

Just look funny to me.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:11 - ID#373335)
Gold stocks don't seem to be reacting the way they should
with this rise in gold. As I recall, any sustainable rally in the past has been led by the stocks, not the other way around. COMMENTS!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:11 - ID#212197)
Gianni (German Calls) ID#384350
If Soros did this, I think
he might already know that the Euro will be backed by a high percentage of gold.

The Europeans act in their authoritarian tradition in this case. Even though the EURO is extremely unpopular, they will go ahead and introduce the EURO. Not to do it, would mean such a shock that we would already have heard about it. There would be a very popular public discussion going on in Europe.

But what we havn't heard is a percentage number on the gold backing of the Euro. So, why would Soros bet with puts against the dollar and with calls for the DM?
I think that he thinks that a strong gold backing, which will be published very soon, will make a lot of money to flood back from the US to Europe and the DM will first of all profit from this.

The big question is: did he really do it?? what is the source for this info??? If the source is reliable I would blindly follow this move.
Alberich the Dwarf

Calls provide a leveraged way of betting on the outcome.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:14 - ID#289357)

Thanks for the link to the G-E article comparing SA with Aus and NA gold stocks - I'm gonna fax it to my broker.

Spud Master
(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:18 - ID#273112)
@Fred in Vienna
you wrote:

"Someone is expressing grief and gets slaughtered by the gold&guns-lynch-thy-neighbour-crowd in a disgusting
way. That kind of attitude and the way it was shown lacks
politeness and tolerance."

Is there anyone alive who does not feel grief over the Arkansas
murders? No. Therefore, gratuitous posting of "grief" I find
hollow at best, and repulsive when it attempts to MISDIRECT
TO EACH OF US. ( btw, as I have already mentioned, no one expressed any "grief" for the children caught in inner city dirve b shootings that same day, or for the 200 Indians killed by tornados in India two days ago. WHERE WAS YOUR "GRIEF" THEN, FREDDY? You only seem to grieve when the camera is on you, eh? )

You are quite correct I am intolerant of and impolite to such attitudes: we now have three or four generations of people in America just like those two young thugs who are going to be teaching you and your soft-heart, road-to-hell-paved-with-good-intentions liberal crowd just how wrong you were in the last fifty years. Of course, you are all in denial.

Instead of a few rules, ethic, morals that function well to inhibit baser human nature, rules which "spoiled" your liberal notions of "fun", we now how cities filled with youth who only know they want instant gratification, and that there are no consequences to their actions. ALL PRAISE TO BILL CLINTON, ROLE MODEL FOR OUR CHILDREN, LIBERAL'S GOD OF THE MOMENT! ALL HAIL! ALL HAIL!

Stand up Fred, wave to everyone, for you are one of those who have tactily permited such behaviour to occur through your misguided, ill-thought out liberal ideas. Buddy, that whirlwind headed for you is your baby, you had damn well better accept responsibility.

Any ideology that ignores or refuses to accept that humans have an innate disposition to cunning, devious, ruthless, venal and covetous behaviour is doomed to end in the slaughter grounds of history. We are better, we are noble, we are decent only by virtue of CHOOSING TO BE SO, aided by good role models, good morals, good ethics.

Oh oh. There I go - using words like "good", when liberals insist that everything is "relative". Perhaps death is relative. Perhaps the two boys aren't really cold blooded young killers, perhaps they are just "socially challenged" and we should view their acts of ruthless, premeditated murder as merely cries for attention? Yes, let us surround them with councilors and psychologists to help these two boys "understand" that their hostility was misdirected. Perhaps Barney the Dinosaur can come in and talk to them solemnly, then we can all smile & dance & hold hands, and forget this "misunderstanding" and send the boys back to school.

Liberals seem to think if we'd all just link hands and smile beatifically at one another everything would be just peachy, a beautiful world filled with beautiful people, the way they come their hair, makes me want to say, what a wonderful world - and you'll get us there too: Endless slow proscription of our freedoms and rights, until one day, without anyone noticing, we in America will have achieved a totalitarian state that will make the hell of the Nazis, Pohl Pott, Soviet Gulags pale by comparison.

hope you enjoy my thoughts = )

ps - buy gold! demand honest money! end the corrupt rule of the Federal Reserve & its cronies!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:20 - ID#287280)
The Economic Times of India headlines the WB/Wolfensohn story thus:
China to lead next Asian miracle, says Wolfensohn; while the South China
Morning Post simply headlined, "Asia"...interesting--and important
to holdl in the front of one's mind when assessing China-news...the
Chinese do not shoulder their way rudely to the front of the line,
very quiet, quite restrained and very, very effective.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:20 - ID#427357)

Randgold & Exploration ( RANGY ) was UP more than 11% yesterday - and first crack out of the box this morning it is UP another 10%. Methinks Durban Deep ( DROOY ) is about to make its own move. NOW selling for a buck and change.

Both are substantially off their highs of the last 12 months:
... buy low and sell HIGH...
NOW selling for a couple of bucks and change.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:22 - ID#342282)
Great analysis. I need you email, can't make it work from the page. Mine is, many thanx, Charlie

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:26 - ID#348169)
Watching Silver the last few days has ben like watching a championship tennis match!
"It is not too difficult to make money in commodity trading,
the problem is to keep it." --------Roy Longstreet

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:28 - ID#333127)
SWC is within a point of yearly high, with metals off this AM it opened to the plus side, very nice.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:35 - ID#24355)
y2k background info
Last Dec. this board was filled with several excellent Y2K sites. I neglected to bookmark these sites; can anyone in kitcoland help by refreshing my memory?...regards

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:36 - ID#25171)
Yesterday, FNBC bought 2 billion dollars of 1.70 DM calls expiring in 6M
Everybody assumes that SOROS is the client behind the purchase made by this bank.
Last time FNBC intervened in the FOREX derivative market was in 1995 on SOROS's behalf.At the time he bought 9 billion dollars of $ call Yen put exotic option strike 90 with triggers IN at 100, 103, 105.
The link between the Euro GOLD backing and his trade is not obvious.
I think he has more compelling macroeconomic reasons to do that ( ref my previous posts about the dollar ) But it could be the Icing on the cake.
The annoucement by ECB of a 15% or more Gold backing for the Euro would make the POG SKYROCKET.If you look at the recent volume in XAU stock ( particularly Newmont one of SOROS favorites ) it is likely some body made a big purchase a gold stocks recently.
SOROS is more often good than bad about macroeconomics but I loathe his kind.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:37 - ID#348169)
Whoa Spud!
How long ya been keeping that speech wound up inside of ya? Let it out more often or your gonna be the next one up in that university tower shooting down! Now everyone just take a few deep breaths, go outside and smell the air ( It is Spring ) and RELAX!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:38 - ID#431263)
BC was left speechless today while Nelson Mandela defended his good "friends", Cuba, Libya and Iran, referring to Col. Qaddafi as "Brother Qaddafi"! Anybody who would try to get him to renounce or isolate his friendly supporters of the ANC in its struggle against apartheid could "jump into a pool"! And BC's overture to increase Africa's access to the US market was snubbed by Mandela as just another US attempt to exploit African resources and reduce its need to supply Africa with foreign aid! Poor Bill! No respect for BC's neo-attempt at third-world leadership! And Bill thought he was Mandela's "soul-mate"! Looks like Mandela is more of a leader than we give him credit for! Perhaps BC should spend some time in prison like Mandela had to! Might help him appreciate what he's dealing with here!

Spud Master
(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:39 - ID#273112)
to Aurator, valued Kitco poster
Your posts are valuable and I personally have appreciated many.

You just picked a bad subject in yesterday's post.

This please is an arena of ideas, and it is going to be bloody at times; I have my share scars as well - and while they hurt at the time, they did make me think and change my opinions. Thick skin, that's the ticket.

Spud, who will never forget the word "parricide" ; )

Mike Stewart
(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:42 - ID#270253)
Agnico Eagle
For those considering RYO versus DROOY, why not look at Agnico Eagle. It trades in NY and Toronto and has been around for many years. Reserves and cash costs are good with roughly break even operations at these prices. Agnico Eagle has always performed very well during gold bull markets when compared to the XAU. It isn't on the goldbug "A" list, but I like it.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:43 - ID#31868)
wert - excellent site and will list others!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:45 - ID#348169)
Sequin - That was a very informative post but I rather think you could have left off the last sentence. Do you really think he is evil? If not, do you really know him as a person that well to use such a strong word?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:47 - ID#384350)
(@Alberich/ German Calls
Posted yesterday, Mar 26, 15:11 by SEQUIN alludes to the Soros rumor on DM calls.

I agree. How do we know the validity of it. Is this info published or leaked? SEQUIN, can you help us out? How do you know?

You have a valid point that if there is strong gold backing, the Euro would be more desirable, and that money would pour back into Euro currencies. I however tend to subscribe to the notion that a currency should be redeemable in gold, not just gold-backed. Otherwise it's not honest money.

On a related note, I remember reading in a Harry Schultz Letter maybe some 6 mos back. He said that if the Euro is delayed, the DM would soar. He spoke of the possiblility of buying Leaps on DM calls.

It does seem unlikely as the politicians seem hell bent on putting a square peg in a round hole.

Spud Master
(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:49 - ID#273112)
Hillary and I ( after all, Bill does leave her with quite a bit of spare time ) have been jointly working on a number of vast right-left-up-down republican-democrat-libertarian-Vorlon conspiracy theories for many years.

You might have some ground here when you suggest there's a little anger here - luckily the most dangerous weapon I own is a 1985 Briggs&Stratton gasoline-powered push lawnmower with the safety-release disabled.

Spud, off to enjoy the Spring day of thunderstorms, lightening & hail...

"i see skies of blue, trees of green, roses of red,
and i say to myself, what a wonderful life..."

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:51 - ID#228283) Cross..

If you don't e-mail me I'LL POUT!!!.....go gold!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:52 - ID#251268)
Morning all,
Things are looking good after flatlineing for 3weeks were starting to shuffle are feet and get ready to dance!I have a comment for 1 and all,lets get a little thicker skin,some of the best and most honest advise I've recieved in the past was temporarily painful and hurt but thats what we need sometimes to move us out of our comfort zone so lets not think about leaving the group because someone may have insulted us,nobody is a winner when somebody who is a good contributer leaves
the main thing is gold is going up!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:54 - ID#280245)
DINAR BATTLE--A few days ago we discussed a probable quid pro quo
sufficiently rich so as to encourage a secular government of a Muslim country to wage war on the dinar...this may well be the quid for the monetary control battle against the dinar....politics is really quite despicable...

"The Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency ( MIGA ) was established on April 12, 1988, as the newest member organization of the World Bank
Group. Its purpose is to encourage the flow of foreign direct investment to its developing member countries for economic development. Its primary means of facilitating investment is through the provision of investment guarantees against the risks of currency transfer, expropriation, and war and civil disturbance ( political risks ) ."


(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:55 - ID#257136)
WERT: These should help!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:55 - ID#210235)
Please reconsider your decision to stop posting here. We were all angry and upset yesterday about this Arkansas horror. Of course we yelled and screamed at one another. We didn't have the rotten little buggers to string up.

Last evening I decided to discuss this with my kids. Told them I was having a problem dealing with it, and needed some time to grieve. I didn't say what had happened, and had the TV/radio news off since the event. My kids knew every detail from talking about it in school.

My 10 year old daughter, who has a wonderful, pregnant teacher about the same age as the one who was killed, spoke very calmly about the shootings. But, before the evening was over she was just hysterical, screaming at her brothers that they were ruining her life, shouting all sorts of horrid things at them, because they asked not to whistle loudly.
Her brothers were really worried. One came to me and said he didn't know what was going on. He had never seen his sister behave like this. She ran off and sobbed and shook for a long time in her room. I held her for about half an hour before she pulled herself together. She hasn't a clue what triggered her upset.

Look, we've all got a s*%tpile of pain to work through. I don't care how tough we are personally, the image of those little kids running out of the school door into a line of fire will burn in our brains for a long time. We may snap, snarl, and attack wrong targets. You were certainly a wrong target yesterday. Please be as understanding as my young sons, and know that people will attack wrong targets when they are really hurting, and can't express their true feelings.

Your friend, Prometheus

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:58 - ID#228283)

Unable to bring up your latest on golden-eagle....says "NOT FOUND'

E-mail or please fix same. Thanx.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:58 - ID#23398)
Golden Cheesehead
S.A. All seem to forget that this is a country with Leftwing leaders.Three years ago I had a young South African who worked for me.A fine young man,Well educated MBA. All his family except his parents moved to Canada. His parents taking turns on quarterly basis came to visit their children.When asked him why they are not simply move to Canada, he replied they come with money belt and take ten to twenty thousand dollars per trip and have the kids invest in their name.Apparently I do not know if still the case today but you cannot take morethan certain sums of money out of the country.When further probed about leaving such a beautifull country. He basicaly said anyone who can leave, will. A sad statement for the future of S.A. I wonder if investing in a Country where the educated and the young population is leaving is smart investing.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 10:59 - ID#431263)
Doesn't sound to me like Mandela and the ANC have changed their pro-communist, pro-Islamic, anti-US bias at all! One reason I don't own any S. African mines! Simply too much risk of nationalization! Not my idea of safety no matter how cheap they get! IMHO

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:03 - ID#287338)
The Fat Lady is backstage!
Will the fat lady sing today for the Dow Bull and the Gold Bears??

Go the distance. No one should give up on gold or this discussion group. You don't quit the marathon 100 feet before the finish line. Do ya?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:03 - ID#36156)
Yesterday's Gold Moves In Toronto Discussed

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:05 - ID#348129)
@They Can't keep a good thing down - Today is it !!!
*** GO GOLD ***

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:06 - ID#431263)
DOW 8880 once again has turned back the DOW! Look for a hard down close into Monday and Tuesday! This may be it for thhis leg up! Scheiss! And I thought we were gonna' get to see that 3 1/2 hour special on DOW 9000 on CNBC today!

Quixotic 1
(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:07 - ID#48200)
Breakout ?? Breakdown ?? Just buy it !!
Gianni, your 10:47
I would argue that almost any currency is redeemable in Gold, just purchase some with your local currency in the physical market. Gold backing of the Euro would impart fundamental stability and strength. I only hope that we may continue to purchase PMs on the open market, as our global currency gyrations "begin" to unfold.

John Disney,
Your News Flash, of the "Breakout" in SA gold stocks, forgot to mention that prices broke ( as in going for broke! ) through the downside of the relative strength of the NA gold stocks. I think ( **hope** ) this a temporary condition, and a buying opportunity.

Gold for the good guysGMJ

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:08 - ID#173410)


do not be manipulated by weinus-wackus-distractus!
it is their role in life to be the pretender----jackson browne--
you my friend, are a contender.....

'the farther back on can look, the farther forward you can see'
winston churchill...

'if i have seen farther than others, it is because i have stood
on the shoulders of giants' isaac newton....


(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:08 - ID#256255)
Date: Fri Mar 27 1998 10:58

cut and paste. Then remove the en from golden-eagle.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:09 - ID#342282)
Vronsky re email
I got your message, then the damn email screwed up. I got the isp working, but it may be tomorrow before they do it!!! My phone is 704 433 6473. If you can give me a call. Many thanx, Charlie

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:11 - ID#289357)
All @ vronsky032798 article
Does anyone keep a long-term chart of the XAU vs. Jo'burg Gold Index?
Such a chart perhaps would highlight some of the slient points in the vronsky032798 article re: performance in a bull market of SA stocks.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:12 - ID#431263)
SELL EQUITIES AND BUY GOLD! Gold for April now $304 and climbing! The second quarter will be remembered as the reversal quarter from stocks and bonds to hard assets!! IMHO

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:12 - ID#25171)
GIANNI:Ref my 10:36 post : I know for a fact that FNBC bought the DM calls because I sold some to them via brokers on the OTC market.However the SOROS connection is impossible to verify 100% foolproof but it is my best guess.
MOONEY sorry I get sometime carried away.Even though SOROS might be extravagant I think he is part of the establishment that makes this world so dirty.It would take me too much time to go into the details and I have to work but you must know that he was the main financial backer for a campaign to liberalize drugs in california.If you have kids , do you trust them around drugs even the so called soft drugs ? ( pot ... )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:16 - ID#257136)
Prometheus@ 10:55
Would that all Mothers were as perceptive, understanding, loving and strong!
One of the better posts I've seen on kitco!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:17 - ID#31868)
cherokee_A - could not resist
Wasn't I.Newton sitting when he made that famous dicovery with the apple?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:18 - ID#28594)
re: Soros, the D-makr and Tietmeyer...
This weeks Economist, in the Charlemagne column, profiles
Hans Tietmeyer, the D-marks dogged defender...

What Mr. Tietmeyer has not so far been called, though it suits him very well, is Mr. Ping-Pong. Table tennis happens to be a game that Mr. Tietmeyer has mastered with the same diligence he applies to cracking the mysterious of monetary policy. In younger days he walked off with the championship in his home state of North Rhine-Westphalia and now, at 66, he can still trounce players half his age. His speciality? An almost impenetrable defence. He doggedly counters every spin and returns every smash until his exasperated opponent is driven, exhausted, into error. {:- ) ) )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:18 - ID#324266)
Are there any gold mines in HI?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:20 - ID#398105)


Ya cannie let the bastards get to ya.........

Time for the Scots/Maori combination to step forth.........

A Septic Tank is a Septic Tank, they just do not realise their own indulgence

Aye Haggis

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:21 - ID#289357)
XAU/Jo'burg Gold chart

I meant ( in my last post ) a long-term chart of the XAU/Jo'Burg Gold ratio.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:26 - ID#256255)
Did I mention that Comex eligible stocks fell 36.4% yesterday!
Was 245,742 ounces
dropped 89,376 ounces

Now 159,474 ounces eligible stock.

Time is running out to buy the remaining eligible comex stocks - Only $49,448,201.20 and its yours ( $303.80 - Oooops rice has gone up to 304,40 at 11:25EST ) . Offer $50 million Quick.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:29 - ID#210235)
Prometheus (@Aurator ) ID#210235:--That was a VERY special sharing...
Thank you.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:35 - ID#342282)
Quotes- SA gold mines
Anybody got a URL for current quotes on So. African gold mines? TIA

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:37 - ID#258427)
DOW down -73...tick negative -900
Reminds me of the "good ole days"...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:38 - ID#431263)
This time the flight to safety will be to gold and silver, NOT BONDS!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:39 - ID#31868)
Quixotic 1 - make no mistake - the RSA
mines will blow the US mines off the planet in the gold move up. Do not be fooled by the "political" imputations in the media. RSA mines are totally safe.

Mandela is free and eating well, he does not need to die early and he knows it. This is all about money and resources, not political puppets.

Think about it for a moment, how many billions do the mine owners control, and how fast could they write a check in gold for change ( pun intended ) if they wanted.

Buy RSA mines and sleep tight as a bedgoldbug.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:39 - ID#24355)
thanks...DOW -66.26...regards

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:40 - ID#258427)
You gotta be "quick" around here!!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:42 - ID#251268)
Forklift na no GOLD,
but there is enough other beautiful things

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:42 - ID#431263)

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:42 - ID#341189)
You'r a first class grade A human being. Quite a community we have here. It's a privelege to be a small part of it.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:42 - ID#298259)
May all parents...mothers & fathers...share your perceptions, understanding and nuturing. I thank you for sharing something so personal. GO GOLD!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:42 - ID#22956)
this stuff is pertinent....old maybe but pert...
lots of good info, no, really: seek my beer making buddy

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:42 - ID#25295)
stock prices???
stock prices not reflecting PM moves??

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:43 - ID#258427)
XAU UP 1.77!!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:44 - ID#28594)
A. Goose, if rice is at 304.40, what in heavens name is gold at? {:-)))
p.s.--thought we were going to use salt? Sorry--can't help
teasing...but just look at all the errors I make, and realize
you are Very much better! {:- ) ) and we all thank you for
all the work...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:45 - ID#269245)
Spud, do I detect some of that "liberal compassion" in your pleas to Aurator for forgiveness?
I'm sure everyone here will now avoid pissing you off in the future. Some of your points are good, others are rash and hostile. One thing is for sure, we have heard nothing but repetition for over a day now as you continue to try to drill your point home. I think your point has been made. When will it just go away? Enough already!! sheesh! - c

The Hermit
(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:47 - ID#369247)
@ aurator - your sayonara - 00:20
Please let me add my voice to those who are imploring you not to leave us. I was very dismayed at the attacks leveled against you yesterday and was very reluctant to enter the discussion.

Sir, you are not a liberal! You are a gentleman, one who displayed deep and heartfelt compassion for others and I very much appreciate it! There is good reason "to grieve for america".

I have lurked here for a long time and only recently worked up the courage to post. I have over that time, formulated in my mind a group who I consider to be the top financial and thinking minds here at Kitco. You aurator, are with a few others at the top of that list and with a few others are classed as a gentleman! We need you here with your insights and compassion to make Kitco what it is!

Thank you so much for your prior posts. Please do not go!

Very Respectfully,

The Hermit

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:47 - ID#368244)
Prometheus ref. 10:55

You are so right my friend.

Aurator, you stay right here.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:48 - ID#317193)
vronsky-I can see movement now, the time is near...
OK, so I almost got the words right. Short wait. Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:50 - ID#22956)
blessed buck($)!
Damn that thing is still chugging. Ya gotta love a good en dive on a friday. Come to PAPA!!! yahoo!! Up down, don't care, LET'S GOOOO!! And the Mark is holding up well under the onslaught.....uh huh. w/w


go Monex-Man feeling his undies bunching??

I still think that ANOTHER is English and his aka is bbfisher... ( ohmy? )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:50 - ID#256255)
Aurator I hope you stay around for the party. I just wouldn't be the same without you.

XAU 82.85 up 1.91

Ron ( CNBC type ) begrudgingly noted that the Euro will hold up to 30% of their reserves in gold.

PH in LA
(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:51 - ID#225408)
Keepin' up with the times! More shadows on the cave walls!

Prometheus: so "people will attack wrong targets when they are really hurting, and can't express their true feelings", right? Then I guess it's OK, right?

So the conservative, brain-dead agenda is OK, too, 'cause they haven't thought through their supposed "ideas" either, any more than the liberals who have been ruining our country for 50+ years. OK. And its OK to electrocute 11-year olds, too. And when someone tries to integrate what is bad into a unified whole and tries to get beyond simple-minded to a broader understanding and gets venom thrown in his face, that's OK, too, because the thrower is "really hurting, and can't express his true feelings". And we should understand this too, and tolerate it, because he is really a good, well-intentionedperson, right?

In other words, when "they" ( 11-year-old kids and liberals ) do it, it is reprehensible. But when I ( the good, conservative, acid-thrower ) do it it's OK, because I am well-intentioned, road-paved-to-hell, conservative, and I "just don't know how to express my grief", and that is good, too. Not at all like those bad, stinking, instant-gratification-seeking, ruined-our-country, self-indulgent, liberal dogs, that I wish I could go out and shoot right now, and I would, too, except that they would put me in jail and that would not be very conservatively self-gratifying, would it?

And so we all lose another fine poster, because someone else was well-intentioned, road-paved-to-hell conservative and "just didn't know how to express his grief", etc. And that's OK, too, because he has a good excuse. ( Not at all like those liberals who also think they have good excuses! ) And we just keep on adding to the list of expulsed ( and repulsed ) posters...pretty soon we'll all be pleading with Heavy Hitter to come back. At least he sure knew how to sling the crap. Ought to fit right in around here, just as soon as we get rid of some more of these creeps who don't think exactly like we do.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:52 - ID#235378)

03:23 PM ET 03/26/98

NY precious metals end higher on good volume

NEW YORK, March 26 ( Reuters ) - COMEX and NYMEX precious
metals futures ended higher across the board Thursday, with
gold seeing a fourth day of heavy volumes.
"Gold again attracted most interest, but much of the volume
was a continuation of the April/June rollover," said Carlos
Perez-Santalla, a COMEX floor trader with Hudson River Futures.
COMEX June gold, now the active contract, ended up $2.40 an
ounce at $303.70, after trading a $303.90-301.20 intraday range.
Total COMEX gold volume was estimated at 85,000 lots, with
the April/June roll in full swing.
In the bullion market, spot gold ended quoted $301.10/60,
compared to the London Thursday afternoon fix at $299.60 and
the New York close Wednesday around $298.80/30.
Implied gold lease rates were little changed around 1.65
pct for one month and 1.90 pct for 12 months.
The focus in the gold market remains on what role gold will
play in the planned European Central Bank's ( ECB ) reserves when
decisions are made in May, analysts said.
"Much hot air is talked about what the European central
bank will or won't do about gold sales by the national central
banks once the ECB is formally created in May," said Merrill
Lynch analyst Ted Arnold.
"If you speak to officials in various central banks and
treasury offices you soon come to the realization that the
Maastricht Treaty provisions covering the ECB's control over
gold reserves left in national central bank vaults are not iron
clad rules, but much more like articles of faith.
"The general view seems to be that individual country
members and the ECB will enjoy considerable flexibility over
gold policy, so we would be extremely surprised if the gold
mobilization policies of the individual central banks did not
continue more or less unhindered after the ECB is created in
May," he said.
"There is likely to be an increase in lending gold to the
bullion market and an increase in writing options against some
of the national reserves and there will almost certainly be
more sales, with or without the permission of the ECB."
"These sales will almost certainly be via swaps."

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:53 - ID#233199)
What's with DROOY today - it seems to be stuck!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:53 - ID#212197)
Thank you for repeating your post from yesterday ( with the exception of the S&P100 puts for $500m ) .
I start now thinking that the whole move leaves a few more possibilities of interpretation open.
The flood of money from US$ to European currencies ( i.e., Hans Tietmeyer's DM ) could also become triggered by a US stock market crash;
my original assuption was that the re-established attraction of the future outlook on European currencies through strong gold backing could become the initial trigger; and as a consequence of that the long awaited crash of the DOW would happen.
Do you see more?
Because it's a short term move I think he knows something which will initialize the floodgate to open. But I agree: the macroeconomic precondition for such a thing to happen, must be already in place.
Anyway: it's good for gold.
Alberich the Dwarf

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:53 - ID#31868)
Golden Cheeshead - In large measure I think
at this point the playing field in RSA has been widened so far that now the games can begin for the future. Within that what I mean is that things, although seemingly heated have been watered down to the extent that the shill that is put in really does not matter as long as he/she/it keeps big money happy while providing a sense to the people that they are better off.

Their thinking is far, far different than the American thinking/view or the lack thereof. Mandela is old, who knows what goes on in his mind. On the other hand, he talks tough but is tired I am sure, the risk of putting some young buck in who is all full of piss and vinegar is next to nil in my opinion. Mandela and his handlers knows the reaction to that would be severe and swift. Why risk what he considers to be the advances gained at this point.

Look for more of a milk-toast puppet that seemingly keeps everyone happy while performing the complete opposite behind the scenes.

The Hermit
(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:54 - ID#369247)
@ Prometheus - your 10:55
A very good post indeed! You are truly a special mother! It is good to have true ladies at Kitco - you do add so much to the discussions. I appreciate your company. Thank you!

Very Respectfully,

The Hermit

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:54 - ID#431263)
USA GOLD reporting a rumor from the same source that pre-announced Buffett's silver purchase that something big is brewing in Japan about a yen-based currency for Asia and will have huge implications for gold. Announcement to come on April 1! Also Japan now selling US bonds. Reliable sources convinced that gold will spike up to $340-$360 range in the NEXT 30 DAYS!!!! God to USA GOLD PAGE AND READ IT FOR YOURSELF!!Gold and XAU have done what these insiders say it has to do to reach these levels!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 11:57 - ID#256255)
Thanks for reminding me SDRer...

I would like to generate a currency table based on the price of salt. We need input from the international lurkers - please support your local salt dealer ( :- )

1. Give me the cost in your local currency for Salt ( please give location country and city and weight measurement ) A.Goose Cupertino, California, USA US$ 0.1656 per ounce ( us$0.265 per pound ) .
2. E-mail the information to Salt>> You need to have a space between Salt and Std ( Salt ) .
3. We will collect data until we get a fair representation from countries around the world.
4. Using Salt should give us a good gauge for evaluting the value of various currencies around the world. Then we will view the US dollar in light of this information.

Send your cost for salt to Salt , please give city. Country, cost in local currency and weight:
A.Goose Cupertino, California, USA US$ 0.1656 per ounce ( us$0.265 per pound ) ( us$2.65 for 10 pounds ) . ( You don't have to make the conversions, just provide the data - thanks )


(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:00 - ID#411149)
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD- I am also hearing the samething from MY sources
that is that gold will be @ $350-60 soon and much higher
this summer. MUST BE SOMETHIN TO IT!

All aboard iffin you ain't got a board get a plank.

Tally Ho

John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:01 - ID#24135)
I think I saw this movie before.
for Tolerant
You see the truth. Harmony is picking
up 3 high cost shafts from fregold that
used to constitute Pres Steyn. It seems they
are up 10% today. I bought at 10 rand .. they
are 17 in maybe 5 months with gold noplace. I can
live with that.
Throw cheesehead a banana and tell him to
buy some ryo. It will NEVER be nationalized.
Nobody wants it.
For quien97. fabulous anecdote .. the law
on taking money out has been changed ... under
nats was a one off 20,000 rand .. is now
1 million per person per year .. and will soon
be more liberal than USA.
The US is run by left wingers too .. havent
you noticed?.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:04 - ID#251268)
Salt ?
don"t know how true this is but,I was taught the word salary
derived from the payment of wages in salt to Roman soldiers? HM

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:07 - ID#348127)

As long as Silver hangs around the 6 $$$ mark, little darlings like SSC will turn hefty profits. Go Silver !!!!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:07 - ID#431263)
HERR DIZZY--Do they have ostriches for citizens in S. Africa or what? Buy a mine you KNOW is safe--BUY LIHIR ( VENGOLD ) !! Better yet--BUY GOLD AND SIT ON IT!!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:07 - ID#368244)
Ron Insaneia @ CNBC
Just said that golds tiny move was due to the insignificant news that the EURO would be backed by 30% gold. I would like to put my foot up ,well you get my meaning.

John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:09 - ID#24135)
Hey there Mr Cheesehead.
Oh Mr Cheesehead
I think April 1 is .. er .. ah.. April
Fool's day ...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:10 - ID#253246)
golden cheeshead ($ of VENGF w/gold@$360)0

where do you see the share price of vengf with $360 gold

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:11 - ID#348169)
@All and Aurator (and Sequin)
All this commotion about aurator and ( hope ) I got news for you guys. I reread his last message from early this morning and it merely looks like he was checking out for the night. Will find out this evening because I'm sure he's sleeping right now.
Sequin - Did not know about the California thing. Guess it wasn't mentioned in his book I read where he keeps talking about the millions that he gave away in Eastern Europe for his sponsored 'foundations'. He is quite a complex entity.
"Old men are fond of giving advice to console themselves
for being no longer in a position to give bad Examples.
---------Francois de la Rouchefoucald

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:12 - ID#57232)
'Worth his Salt'
jman: I agree. Aurator where are you! Undoubtedly you can help us with the origin of this phrase. I think it is a term probably going back to biblical days when payment for certain services was done in salt.

How about 'back to the Salt Mines'?

Certainly there is a similar terminology between gold and salt. However, I don't think a salt currency would be of much value in or near Salt Lake City -- the US salt equivalent of Fort Knox -- with a twist.

By the way I will go by Fort Knox in a few days -- I will let you know if I see any unusual activity -- where is Goldfinger these days? I haven't noticed his posts in months!

All -- I doubt that Aurator will stay away very long. Just got a little miffed by a single thoughtless post.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:13 - ID#256255)
Date: Fri Mar 27 1998 12:04
jman ( Salt ? ) ID#251268:

There was also a time in China when salt was more valuable than gold. It is something that everyone needs, easy to measure, readily avaible,... so maybe we will get a handle on what currencies are really worth. Especailly that strange one ... the US DOLLAR. Aurator you will help, won't you.


REMEMBER comex eligible gold stocks DROPPED 36.4% yesterday!!!!

Lan Man
(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:14 - ID#320108)
@Look at that VOLUME!




John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:15 - ID#24135)
Money Talks .. you better believe it
Herr Von Cheesehead
Heil Cheesehead ... When the Indonesian
army is sitting on Lihir you go tell them all
about it.. Im selling my carpenter. Lihir capital
cost is heavier than you know .. But you GO FOR

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:16 - ID#269245)
Damn those liberals!! Damn them! All they want is change!! Damn them. Who do they think they are anyway, damn liberals? When will they realize that things are just fine the way they are!! Conservatism, YES! That is the answer to everyone's prayers. Everyone, PRAY FOR CONSERVATISM to take over this damn liberal world. Damn bastard liberals!!

Hate to break it to ya, but change is coming... soon. Damn liberals!

- c

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:17 - ID#253246)
CAU up 3/16 this AM any news out there

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:17 - ID#431263)
What do ya' think is gonna' happen to all those humongous gold stock profits ( post Mandela ) once they're converted to a world reserve currency? If'n there are any profits! Methinks "Brother Qaddafi" will have his hands in the till long before any first-worlders. And what do ya' think he'll do with them? Gott im Himmel!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:18 - ID#287338)
If you don't like CNBC, let them know. I just emailed them and requested more prime time stories and news reporting about PM's with real facts and figures. I also brought it to their attention about the fact that nearly $50 M will buy all the eligible gold stock in COMEX. Do you think they will look into it. Yea right!

Lets all let them know how we feel! CNBC email:

Mike Stewart
(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:22 - ID#270253)
Political Risk in South Africa
I have traded South African Gold stocks since 1986 when I bought Orange Free State. One of the lessons that I have learned is that "political risk" effects on the price of South African golds vanishes as the price of Gold rises, and blossoms as bullion tanks. It has proven to be a great contrarian indicator. Ex-South Africans are the worst people to discuss this with as they have an axe to grind. The want to justify bailing out.

John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:22 - ID#24135)
Ive enjoyed as much of this as I can stand.
Heil von Cheesehead
Couldnt really follow that last outburst. But anyway
have a banana.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:24 - ID#408285)

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:24 - ID#212197)
...I want you to stay because you are a poet.

You speak the most beatiful English I have ever heard.

Alberich the Dwarf

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:25 - ID#410198)
Thats it I'am outa here,taking all this heat for being for God,Guns,Gold
my feelings have been hurt,was up crying all nite,nobody loves me anymore

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:27 - ID#25171)
Even with stocks at such lofty levels , it is difficult to predict the end of the bull. PER are above 27.5 on the S&P ( the secular average is around 14 ) , profit forecasts fot this year are mostly revised sharply down and if inflation figures were not so grossly manipulated ( overweighting of durable goods ) everybody would notice the ugly ( not for gold holders ) head of inflation pointing above the sea of personal debt in the US.

However, stock valuation has become so irrational that any forecast based on macro is difficult ( I am sucking air on my short S&P )

Thus , I don 't think anybody would bank on a stock collapse to short the $.On the other hand , the current account deficit in the US is unsustainable at this pace ( 200 billion/year ) all the more as money flows into the US preventing a $ collapse are becoming very short term investment ( mostly deposit account in the last Q of 1997 - ) This added to a probable stock market crash and maybee more CLINTON stories could damage the dollar.

In Europe , the economic situation is comparable to the one of the US 4 years ago.Therefore there is a potential for rates hike even though enemployment is on the high ( we Europeans are so dumb at economic policy besides the Brits ) And on a relative basis , there is more potential for appreciation for European assets than for US.

Last, if the japanese have to repatriate some assets , it will hurt the $ more than european currencies

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:28 - ID#257114)
Can you believe it?? CAU up 3/16?? Amazing considering the daily pounding s it has been taking. Looks like a bottom. Short sellers maybe getting ready to close out?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:29 - ID#341189)
About salt

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:30 - ID#57232)
All: I now have about 35% of my cash long on gold stocks. Will buy more when we have another downturn -- my guess is a mild one in about two weeks - I think that is APH's opinion as well -- an he is much better at this than I.

Farfel: I think you have the cart before the horse if you have all of your money in gold/gold stocks -- rather than cash -- as that means that you can't buy on downturns -- which are invitable until all the 'shorts' give up. I cannot believe we will move to 340-360 without a royal fight soon.

I think the bullish forces are coming together for gold -- but we must all be very cautious not to buy on rallies and run out of cash. The APH approach works not just with 'day' trading, but works intermediate term. If one is good, the risk is less and the return is amplified almost x2.

If I knew the G Soros long Deutsch Mark/short US dollar scheme was fact, and that the Japanese were buying gold was fact, I would have 50% or more of my liquid assets invested in precious metals. Did everyone see the US Gold comments yesterday?

We all need to watch Japan carefully, because a Japanese implosion would be the end to a Japanese - induced gold rally. Also, the 'powers that be don't want gold to 'rise too fast' as that is a message of trouble in the markets. I don't think we need to worry about the US markets until September unless the US dollar crashes. Very unlikely.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:30 - ID#431263)
Herr Dizzy--First a little geography lesson. LIHIR isn't in Indonesia. It's about 300 km off the coast of Papua, New Guinea! Second. Lihir has too many western interests and is too close to Aussieland to be permitted to fall into the hands of a little tin dictator like Suharto whose gonna' have his hands full for the next ten years just feedin' his people much less worryin' about takin' in some more mouths to feed! Lihir is isolated from all that ANC crap and doesn't have to drill down to the center of the earth to find an ounce of gold if'n they can get it back out at a price that makes it competitive with open pits mine like LIHIR's! Give me LIHIR any day! After Mandela there won't be any whites left to mine anything! Brother Qaddafi, Comrade Fidel and Iran will be doin' the mining! And Dizz? Well, I'll pray for your safety!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:34 - ID#288399)
CNBC/Ron's gold comment/Wall St. Journal
Just that fact that the ECU even want ANY % gold is a big deal -- so, they don't trust their paper system, eh? Also, didn't GE buy the Wall Street Journal late last year? Now CNBC/Wall St. Journal can have seemless flow/control of market info pre and post market.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:36 - ID#57232)
Forgot Oil!
Sold my oil stocks today -- after a 20% profit. What I don't know is how to figure out how much there is of an oil glut, and how much of an effect the dollar/oil ' exchange rate' will affect the oil price trend. My personal opinion is that oil will go down for a while, and only a run on the dollar, or threat of war will turn it around.

Opinions from the oil guru's -- who thinks Venezuela will be cheating again very soon?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:38 - ID#22956)
doesn't get any better....did anyone see that 'gull take off with that golfball?? Funny stuff, that. Go FREDDY!!! Golf is good food.
go gold.
away ( $ )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:39 - ID#288155)
EMU--problems, problems, problems...
Economist-... Irish fog...
...the Brussels meeting on March 14th to realign excange rates was briks--indeed, suspiciously so. For 18 months, Irelands currency has been trading above its central rate in Europes exchange-rate mechansim. These central rates are likely to become the conversion rates for countries that are chosen to join Europes single currency.

To narrow the gap, the Irish decided to revalue by 3% against the German mark. ...first time any currency in the exchange-rate mechanism has revalued against the D-mark...yet the revaluation was not big enough to solve Irelands economic dilemma....GDP expanded by over 10% in 1997--and there are worrying signs of inflation in property and share prices [doesnt worry USG! SDRer].

Left to their own devices, the Irish might try to cool things down by keeping short-term interest rates at a relatively lofty 6%. But they will not be left to their own devices. A single currency means that there will be a single monetary policy ( and hence the same short-term rates ) for all member countries.

This is a foretaste of how hard it will be to set the right monetary policy for 11 disparate economies...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:40 - ID#239438)
My two cents worth re RSA
My Mrs is from RSA, dyed in the wool Boer stock, conservative as hell, considers herself very fortunate to be out of there. She is in contact with relatives over there on a regular basis, and the general situation appears to be as follows- the blacks are taking over all government functions ( after all, isnt it their country? ) , white civil servants are being are rapidly being phased out, working class whites are having an increasingly difficult time finding work, there are very few jobs for them, reverse discrimination is de facto, upper class whites are still doing pretty well and seem to be in a deep state of denial. I have read many of John Disneys worthy postings, he presents an entirely different picture of the RSA domestic situation. I view the RSA mining postings with great interest, but I have serious doubts about the long term safety and stability of investing in the new RSA, or anywhere else in sub-Saharan Africa.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:40 - ID#427357)

1998's big play will be in the South African Gold Stocks -

Today's acction so far is representative of what is to come:

Gold....UP 1%
XAU.....UP 2%
RANGY...UP 15%

RANGY traded ADRs on the NASDAQ is the symbol for Randgold & Exploration

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:40 - ID#239438)
My two cents worth re RSA
My Mrs is from RSA, dyed in the wool Boer stock, conservative as hell, considers herself very fortunate to be out of there. She is in contact with relatives over there on a regular basis, and the general situation appears to be as follows- the blacks are taking over all government functions ( after all, isnt it their country? ) , white civil servants are being are rapidly being phased out, working class whites are having an increasingly difficult time finding work, there are very few jobs for them, reverse discrimination is de facto, upper class whites are still doing pretty well and seem to be in a deep state of denial. I have read many of John Disneys worthy postings, he presents an entirely different picture of the RSA domestic situation. I view the RSA mining postings with great interest, but I have serious doubts about the long term safety and stability of investing in the new RSA, or anywhere else in sub-Saharan Africa.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:45 - ID#26793)
Price of REAL salt, not supermarket poison salt.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:45 - ID#431263)
Herr Silverado--Amen brother! Even the part about Dizzy's many worthy posts here at Kitcoland. Off to eat my banana!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:45 - ID#224149)
SA = Dead Investment
Why would anybody buy SA stocks unless they have a death wish? North American Gold stocks are easy to trade and why not let your friends here profit from your loses when they all collapse towards the end of the year. Lets keep the money in North America ----It keeps the economy moving. Away to find the boiler room boys.

Spud Master
(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:48 - ID#273112)
chuckle ... yes, change is coming soon. Not the sort of change most people are going to like ; ) No one objects to the honest, ad hoc nature of change - it is when is engineered by various groups to effect their nefarious agendas that "change" becomes a wicked thing.

No liberal will ever step up and admit that their wonderful plan/scheme/design has screwed up and resulted in human misery.


How about you, Herr Clone?

Did L.B. Johnson's Great Society plan end poverty in the US? To quote my brother in Kitco, EB, "Oh my!". We spent how many BILLIONS of dollars in the last 30 years and as a result we have...

... more poverty,
... more broken families,
... more crime,

Any liberals here feel up to saying: "...I'm sorry. We were wrong. We screwed up. We meant well, but our understanding of human nature was wrong. We're sorry, we're sorry. Maybe we should try some Conservative ideas... you know, the old ones we dissed and pee'd on"

Let's admit the truth: Liberalism is all about cryptoslavery: doing things to people that make them think they are "free" ( Welfare, SS, AFEDC, WIC ) ... while hooking them on the needle ( as surely as any heroin addict is hooked ) of government handouts, of which our noble Liberals take 90% off the top to line their pockets and live the good life. We all know it would be cheaper to just give everyone on welfare a check for $30,000 a year than have the money flow through Washington D.C. hands.

I suspect that so called "liberals" are either a ) Well intentioned, honest, but deceived persons, or b ) just thieves of other peoples property through the agency of government taxes, confiscatory laws, etc. Group 'B' will be the first to clamor for the gold, silver, land, etc. of those who were wise enough to plan for the future, and Group A will slavishly agree, hands held out.

You can separate humankind into the conservative or liberal camp though a very simple test: do you think you are best able to order your own life, or do you think the government is best able to order your own life.

It's actually quite hillarious that a Liberal will scream & foam at the mouth to defend the right to suck the brains out of a new born baby ( partial birth - ha! - that's CHANGE ain't Cloner? ) as their right of freedom ... ( btw, why can we see Arkansas massacre film footage and cry over it, but not a detailed partial birth abortion on TV? It's just "tissue" right? )

... but the same Liberal will never, ever, defend your right to your own wealth by the virtue of the sweat of your brow. Your wealth, really "belongs" to them through the proxy of the government.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:48 - ID#270236)
RSA political risk.
I don't think the SA political risk is any greater than Canada. Why
would anybody buy mining stock with properties located there. The
country is run by socialists and the currency is about to collapse.
If the economy goes into a tailspin, the country will split in two
or worse.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:50 - ID#238295)
Gold doing EXTREMELY WELL considering strong rise of the dollar today. Market reaction to news is the best technical indicator going and this now tells me the odds are overwhelming that this rally is for real

JFT: You are right to keep heavy cash reserves. There will be plenty of sharp reactions as gold works its way higher. I suspect we will get a big one when we approach $320. I am now 25% in gold mutual funds and plan to hike this to 50% on significant corrections.

RJ: Your past calls have indeed been very good, but methinks you are getting a bit cocky and overconfident. The market is well aware that Dutch sales are likely and Portugese sales as well for that matter. One characteristic of bull markets is that bad news is downplayed or ignored.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:50 - ID#288155)
JTF--how about "Salary"
The salarium was an allowance given to Roman soldiers to buy salt. The word reached us as salary. {:- ) )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:52 - ID#246224)
Intra-day comment-ary by A*, the unknowledgable(!).
Looks like silver is breaking up through 6.40 like an ice breaker - no let up on the assault. Looks like a very strong finish for today's silver spot. Possibly a 6.50 close or higher?

Gold advance looking very tidy. A breather just before 304. If we hold here ( above 303 ) then we have Au above 303 and XAU above 80 that was the 'indicator' and 'confirmation' mentioned in USAgold commenary. Sitting at a good 82+ in the XAU right now. Let's see if they try to beat it down below 303 for the close. If not then we are "golden".

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:53 - ID#431263)
Herr DEJ--Who said anything about investing in Canada? LIHIR ain't in Canada--it's in PAPUA, NEW GUINEA! Never heard of it? Great! One more reason I like it for the long haul!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 12:54 - ID#246224)
Intra-day comment-ary by A*, the unknowledgable(!).
Looks like silver is breaking up through 6.40 like an ice breaker - no let up on the assault. Looks like a very strong finish for today's silver spot. Possibly a 6.50 close or higher?

Gold advance looking very tidy. A breather just before 304. If we hold here ( above 303 ) then we have Au above 303 and XAU above 80 that was the 'indicator' and 'confirmation' mentioned in USAgold commenary. Sitting at a good 82+ in the XAU right now. Let's see if they try to beat it down below 303 for the close. If not then we are "golden".

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:00 - ID#36156)
Yeltsin Stands By New Prime Minister

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:04 - ID#251166)
Re. War, Y2K and POG
Was reading George Ure's piece on golden eagle *Is 1929 Being Replayed This Year?* ( Gold Digest, Guest Guru Ure [last updated July 1997] ) . . . Mr. Ure missed his prediction of the Dow crash ( guessed ~August '97 ) , but lays out some valid ( IMHO ) thoughts re. POG and cycles of war. Per his theory we're overdue for war. ( Lots of other interesting, ironic stuff. Worth the read. )

This ( gold bear ) talk lately of POG rising only in the event of war -- let me ask: Could this Y2K bug be the very worthy opponent against whom ( or which ) we enter into war? True, the Y2K bug is hardly a conventional opponent. But it looms as intractable as any, and with consequences -- ON OUR "SHORES" no less -- as potentially upsetting as any conventional threat.

Look at the resources only now being mustered against the Y2K bug. ( Isn't that one byproduct of war, the unavoidable extra expenditure of resources? ) Figure the earnings impact on big corporations already showing signs of weakness ( cf. recent quarterly warnings ) .

Just some thoughts. Insights appreciated. Thanks!


Spud Master
(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:05 - ID#273112)
@PH'ed in LA
Consider my 12:48 for you as well as Clone.

I take it as a complement you regard my words as "acid-throwing". I mean for my words to be fierce, vicious and in-your-face. I want you to think, and think hard. I want you to scramble to defend your position, or capitulate.

Unlike liberal words, which are designed to deceive, silky-sweet, filled with "emotion" proving how "they care", "they feel your pain" ...

The fate of America, a truely free America has been sliding toward a smiley-faced Liberal totalitarian fate for many years. I will continue to drag my foot, however feeble it may be, to slow our progress toward that thousand-point of lights Hell.

History will decide which of us were right.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:08 - ID#31868)
1lbs 69 cents

John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:08 - ID#24135)
Sleep real easy ... cheesehead
Oh Mr Cheesehead
Thanks for the geography lesson .. but I know where
it is .. and now for a lesson in politics for YOU.
The other half of New Guinea is run by Indonesia and
the side that you think is real sweet is building
closer ties with Indonesia. Also IM SURE you dont know it
but Indonesia has a way of thinking that ALL those little
islands between Maylasia and Australia belong to her....
like Timor etc. If you think that Papua New Guinea is
stable you really are a Cheesehead.
Oh .. just to help you sleep .. I think there are 2 million
Indonesians .. could that be right?? hungry but well armed.
But PLEASE BUY LOTS and NEVER buy South African ...
You must LEARN via your pocketbook .. its always the
best way... you must pay your dues and you will.

PH in LA
(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:08 - ID#225408)
Fun with the dictionary!
Merriam-Webster: "conservative: tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions."* No ambiguity here! Let's-not-change-it mentality! "We like it just the way it is, thank you very much!"

Merriam-Webster: "liberal: marked by generosity and openhandedness."* ????????

Doesn't sound quite so bad as I thought. Wait a second here! I thought "liberals" were supposed to be "bad". No wait, let's look into this a bit further.

Merriam-Webster: "liberalism: a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based upon free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard." *

Hey, wait just a darn minute, here. This sounds like Newt Gingrich at his best. Just what is going on here?

Sounds to me like someone has been playing fast-and-loose with our English language here. No good, conservative, politician would ever do a thing like THAT, now would he!!?? ( Lightbulb thingy going off! ) Is "good politician" some kind of oxymoron?

Off-topic point of all this: It might be a favor to all if some posters would think carefully before "tending to maintain existing views" by throwing around a bunch of long-ago-debased epithets. Liberals might not be all bad. Conservatives might not be all good. Careful thinking, good analysis, striving to peel back the layers of falsehood to arrive at a deeper perception of reality...these things are valuable and highly prized, of benefit to all. Mindless name-calling, vitriolic posts and sloppy thinking are not!

Spud: Can you honestly assure/prove to us all ( or to yourself ) that your "liberals" are the only cause of the failure of their merely "well-intentioned" ideas and desire for positive change; that the resistance offered by the "good-guy conservatives" to that change had nothing to do with those failures? Please don't answer with more venom. It's just a rhetorical question.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:15 - ID#324266)
Your post was worth a lot more than two cents to me. Thanks! What happened to all private business in Cuba around 1957? How did Mexico and Venezuela get such profitable oil industries? What happened to private business in Rhodesia? However, Mr. Disney is correct: platinum, diamonds and gold have continued to flow.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:15 - ID#36156)
Salt, Soldier, Solder...
The following was copied from:

"Pinch me . . .

The term salary comes to us from sal, the Latin for salt, along with the story that Roman soldiers were often paid with salt, which at that time was both valuable and tradable. Some scholars doubt that, and suggest the term comes from the money given to Roman soldiers to buy salt. Whatever, salary definitely comes from the Middle English salarie, from the Latin salarium, from the neuter of salarius, meaning pertaining to salt - but what's the big deal with salt anyway?

Salt is not only essential to life but necessary to the flavour of nearly all our foods. When we describe people as "salt of the earth" these days we usually mean simply that they are nice, but the original meaning was either that they were essential or that they gave life flavour by being interesting. And when we accept an implausible tale with "a pinch of salt" or in its Latin form cum grano salis, we make it more palatable and more readily "swallowed".

Peter Spierings, of Carseldine in Brisbane, has pointed out that the Dutch for soldier is soldaat, and that pay is soldij, which is closer related to booze, nicotine and women than to salt: "There seems to be a link between soldier, soldaat and soldij," he wrote. "Could it be that sol- has its origin in Greek?" Close. It was Latin, from solidus, solid. This, it seems, was used by Romans as a shortened form of nummus solidus, or solid coin, which found its way into Old French as soulde, pay, and the coin known as a sou. Since the essence of being a mercenary soldier was that one was paid for one's trouble ( as opposed to being conscripted ) , anyone who thus served was known as a soudier, which begat the modern French soldat and the English soldier. The word solder also comes from solidus: it originally meant to make solid."

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:16 - ID#340302)
I don't know where you have the idea that all my money is in precious metals. Certainly, a hefty slice...around 45%-50%. However, I am not about to endanger my family on behalf of my chauvinistic beliefs in the value of hard assets. As such, we live quite most comfortable lives. My wife would have it no other way.

However, I do resent "technicians" like APH who exhibit a negative bias against gold & silver. They are simply gold shorts masquerading as omniscient soothsayers. As I discussed in previous posts, the problem with the gold shorts such as APH is they prey on the significant insecurities of PM investors accumulated over years of watching their investments perform a slow dive.

In my experience, technicians practise a covert form of voodoo. They have as much ability to call significant turns in the metals market as I have to visit Mars. Their only true ability is to get enough of a following where they can effect markets to a limited degree by virtue of their calls. In other words, they do not discern the patterns in the market...rather they affect those patterns to some degree. Remember old Joseph Granville in his heyday. He used to be one of the best technicians and he could move markets. However, the only problem was that he failed to call one of the most significant turns in the Dow, thereby causing all his disciples to flee en masse.

So, forgive me if I speak out and declare the errors of negative PM far as I am concerned, APH is failing to call a significant upward turn in PM's. Moreover, since I am a resolute long in PM's, his ilk are harming my ability to gain profit in this world. Ergo, they are my enemies and certainly the enemies of many Kitco posters who believe in Au and Ag.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:17 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Only a blind idiot could accuse Newt Gingrich of being conservative!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:19 - ID#411149)

Tally Ho

PH in LA
(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:22 - ID#225408)
Last post on this!
So "he means for his words to be fierce, vicious and in-our-face. He wants us to think, and think hard. He wants us to scramble to defend our position, or capitulate." ?? Funny! Sounds like that's just what he's doing, throwing acid all over the place. Sort of an intellectual equivilant to "grabbin' yer gun and goin' down to the schoolyard an' shootin' up a few ex-girlfriends". Very noble!

Well, like they always say, "the ends do justify the means", don't they.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:23 - ID#340302)
More prognostications from the all-knowing gold shorts....

Date: Fri Mar 27 1998 02:19
James ( $U.S.@Looking strong--Glad I sold some 0f my ABX near yesterdays close ) ID#252150:
Copyright  1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
GLOBEX PRICES AS OF 03/27/98 01:10 AM TRADE DATE: 03/27/98

EURO $ JUN98 94.30 -.5 MEX TIIE APR98 78.00P ----
SEP98 94.24 -.5 J-YEN JUN98 7826 -53
DEC98 94.14B UNCH B-POUND JUN98 1.6786A -24
MAR99 94.15B -.5 D-MARK JUN98 .5514 -8
JUN99 94.12B -1 SWISS FR JUN98 .6782 -8
SEP99 94.10A UNCH CAND $ JUN98 .7091 -14

And I say....



(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:24 - ID#31868)
Like a barber shop, NEXT!
RSA gold stocks will knock NA gold stocks off the planet in a gold move.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:26 - ID#286230)
DEJ: What are your views on Charest likely value geoeconically?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:29 - ID#269245)
It took you a while to respond, so I knew you were working up something well thought. I don't personally know whether I could ( or should ) be labeled as anything, let alone L* or C*. I really dispise labels, they are extremely ambiguous and are generally used in a manner which I believe breeds irresponsible ( attacking, personal ) , non-productive debate. I think that most opinions of what L*/C*'s stand for are extreme generalizations. Some of my C* views are: work hard, don't go in debt, buy low, sell high, save and conserve, drink 'til you drop. Some of my liberal views are: get laid, give from the heart, contribute to your community, do not exploit that which should be shared by all, and smoke 'til you drop. I would imagine most would agree with most of these views. So, am I L* or C*? Who knows, who cares? I think these labels have lost their meaning over time. - c

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:30 - ID#410198)
OK,I feel better I'am someone who knows a lot about SA let me tell you about the Boers
in SA there are two camps ( white folks ) boers,english,....sort of like North vs South......never liked each other till now....Africa has a history of government overthrows...boers are a proud's as much there country as the blacks....don't be surprised one day to attempt to take it don't want to mess with a really pissed off for the blacks also two camps Zulu's,Xhosas ,the Zulu's also a proud people hate commies....Mandela is a Xhosa....I do not see any way "peace" will be maintained for long...main street US press does not report on the black on white violence and it is pretty graphic,rape,robbery,car jacks, carefull putting money there,

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:30 - ID#213265)
@the scene
For a few dollars more, you can buy gold next week.
Silver is quickly going to 'sour' if it can't get its butt moving in short order. 5.50+ May or bust!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:31 - ID#31868)
right wing..............................left wing - Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Either way, each of you have to admit you can only fly in circles.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:31 - ID#328159)
jonesy 13:04
George Ure, updated, at:
How many weeks till '29 style crash?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:32 - ID#341214)
farfel: APH can speak for himself but
you don't know dink about him. He has made money in both directions. He just came off a silver long from 5.60. Please keep your trap shut on matters where you are oblivious to the facts.

Spud Master
(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:34 - ID#273112)
@PH'ed in LA
you wrote:

--- Can you honestly assure/prove to us all ( or to yourself ) that your "liberals" are the only cause of the failure of their merely "well-intentioned" ideas and desire for positive change; that the resistance offered by the "good-guy conservatives" to that change had nothing to do with those failures? ---

The last 38 years of Federal Government intervention in American life is sufficient proof of its deleterious intrusion into American life.

Do you really want to compare America 1900-1960 with America 1960-1998?

# broken families?
# murders?
# filing for bankruptcy?
# street gangs?
# cults?
# mass killings?
# prison population?
# Federal debt?

Conservatives ahve their share of sins as well; they just are nowhere as subtle and efficient as "Liberals" in getting America to the point of a totalitarian police state.

As one of those self-confessed "liberals", PH'ed, why don't you stand up and admit that your Great Society programs have, by and large, failed, creating more poverty now than when they started.

We are all waiting, True Believer. By the, please feel free to cite "conservative, good-guy resistance" to your liberal programs that crippled to the point of ineffectiveness. Most amusing - 40 years of Democrat/Liberal control of Congress, yet a minority managed to hamstring and ruin all your elaborate plans for Utopia. What a cop-out.

Spud, who states firmly, "we must all buy gold & silver, and reject the manipulative control of the Federal Reserve and their abusive, manipulative debt-slavey Federal Reserve bogus dollars"

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:37 - ID#317193)
Do the posts here get any nicer if gold goes to 350-400 US$? I hope spear catching is not a way of life. Somebody get off subject and post a really good joke-maybe a smile will break out on a few faces. Once again, coming to a town near you-change. Open the minds eye and see that which is before you. How the h*ll would I know what's coming, I can't foretell the future either. Off to dream of derivatives with a solvent loser-hope it's not me! Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:37 - ID#251268)
Jumping on APH ?why?
Hey thats how he feeds his family ( I assume ) I was thought it
was great last week ( ? ) he laid out his plan acording to his
chart work that silver was going to hit major resistance at
around 6.30,posted for all going short at 627.50 aith stop at 6.32,
almost got stoped out but didn't,rode it down to 5.60,then reversed
and I don't know if he is still in,but with out pyriamiding or adding in anyway to an original 275$ trade,hm lets see 7000$ plus preety good!
and the best part is he put it on the line and posted before the trends changed,now we don't all have to trade like APH but anybody that
can find fault with that particular trading plan,hm hm na I don't
see anything but a guy who took a shot at what he thought might happen and it did,I hope he continues to clue us in on what he is doing.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:38 - ID#39971)
Euro Gold Holdings
I don't know why most folks are bumping into trees while the forest is

is straight ahead of them.The reason the ECU has....yes..thats

hold a large percentage of gold is quite obvious..well to moi anyway.

The ECU has to have MAXIMUM confidence at its outset.In order to instill

confidence in any large undertaking where change is involved,a degree of

" not too far too fast " assurance must be conveyed to the PEOPLE.Yes,

the PEOPLE of those countries involved.If they are not confident,the ECU

will die on the streets of Europe,not by some New York country killer

hedge funds syndicate.

Europeans are much less brainwashed than the North Americans.Their past

is one of independent smaller geographical and geopolitical spheres of

influence.They question everything that may be considered a threat to the

individuality of each nation.This not like the forming of the US years

ago through violence.This is not like the forming of Canada's provinces

years ago though the English style court system.This is all taking place

in an era where through instant communication, opinion can change the

perception and confidence overnight during it's infancy.

Still with me?....OK....

The largest common denominator in the hearts and minds of all the folks

involved with this new currency is GOLD.If you endanger the psycological

positive that this denominator posses,you endanger the EURO itself.It

will be suicide to remove it,and the Central Banks know it.All we are

witnessing now is a magic act being played out on a very large stage.

Now you see you don't.But in this case it will be a reappearing

act.First it was gone ( somewhere ) it is back.Twenty-five percent

is my guess.We shall see.

Thank You


(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:38 - ID#340302)

In my experience, technicians practise a covert form of voodoo. They have as much ability to call significant turns in the metals market as I have to visit Mars. Their only true ability is to get enough of a following where they can effect markets to a limited degree by virtue of their calls. In other words, they do not discern the patterns in the
market...rather they affect those patterns to some degree. Remember old Joseph Granville in his heyday. He used to be one of the best technicians and he could move markets. However, the only problem was that he failed to call one of the most significant turns in the Dow, thereby causing all his disciples to flee en masse.

In other words, your friend APH has an "Amen Gallery" on this Kitco forum. He does not discern the patterns of the market...he affects them because sheep like you think he is the incarnation of Jesus Christ.

I don't.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:40 - ID#368244)
PH in LA

Are you an investor in hard assets, gold, silver etc?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:42 - ID#31868)
TYoung - contemplation

Spud Master
(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:42 - ID#273112)
Tolerant1 beat you to the punch - right-wing, left-wing - both curve around to the same clearing where the path ends: totalitarian hell.

I simply recognize that under the banner of "Liberal" the march to that clearing is making the best progress. ( btw, Nazi - stood for National Socialists - 1930's liberals eager for 'change' ) .

I myself favour anarchy in the purest definition: a world of six billion soverigns who respect the life, liberty and property of each other. Knowing human nature, I realize it is not practical, save perhaps in cyberspace.

As for the time it takes to respond - I have mundane work to do when I am not here single-handedly saving America, the free world and Tristan de Cunha ; ) I don't have time for canned responses either - hence the spelling errors & grammar :P


(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:45 - ID#36156)
Hey, Bart, there's a nasty revolution going on here ... WAY OFF TOPIC! Do something before they tear this group apart!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:45 - ID#234311)
Mandela -vs- Rugrat murderers
I was interested to note that, on the bottom half of the front page of today's local birdcage-liner, the story demonized the fiends who murdered 6 children on a schoolyard.

The top half was our President meeting with Nelson Mandela, whose prison term, if I understand it correctly, was a result of planting a bomb on a schoolyard, killing six children. ( Not being well-versed in South African history, I will be open to correction on this one. )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:46 - ID#31868)
Tyoung - I hope you find this funny. You know why New Yorkers never smile?
The light at the end of the tunnel is New Jersey.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:46 - ID#431263)
For that fine first-hand account of the REAL RSA without Dizzy's rose-colored blinders!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:47 - ID#25171)
@ F*
First of all you deserve the Oscar for unrelenting GOLD support.And after all the now famous MANTRA seems to be working despite its new-age flavour!
As to the case of technical vs fundamental analysis, I will say that markets usually are trendy more often than not so a little bit of technical analysis can help for timing.
Technicians argue that all fundamentals are reflected in the spot price price.I would answer that all technicall analysis is as well factored in the spot price.
Perspicacity will triumph in the long run.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:47 - ID#340302)
I respect APH's right to do the work he does.

However, that said, the work he does is antithetical to my financial interests ( and those of most Kitco PM bulls, if they stop for a moment and analyze his predominantly downbeat view of PM's ) .

When APH's technical charts begin to reveal significant upward trends in PM's, then I will gladly cease to criticize.

Moreover, I know categorically that when APH starts telling the world that gold is making a quick line to 350, his "Amen Gallery" on Kitco will jump in and buy the metal instead of wavering like a crowd of fearful grannies. In doing so, APH will have created yet another self-fulfilling prophecy and we can all stand up and cheer.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:49 - ID#31868)
Henry D - Its spring, all they are doin is rubbing the growth of their antlers.
By the way, you get my vote for the most substantive post so far in the day. Excellent material.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:50 - ID#269245)
At this point, I think I must yield to PH!
Damn, who would have thought to look in the dictionary! Spud, I'll remember to move aside and stay out of your way if our paths should ever cross. I'll stick out my neck and generalize that most conservatives enjoy front row seats at any which trail. I, too, am almost Anarchist; but you scare me, man. - c

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:52 - ID#341214)
farfel: Slow I may be,
but hanging around for 18 months gives you a feel for who is on and who is not over the long run. APH doesn't walk on water and he would be the first to admit it. You, however, are good at polluting it. Cmon farfel, whose name is definetely unpronouncable right now, take a chill pill.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:52 - ID#340302)
...however, that said, I must depart and enter the real world, leaving you with these powerful words...


Love from,


(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:53 - ID#36156)
tolerant1 - Sorry, my first Spring in this neck of the woods... guess I panicked.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:53 - ID#269245)
Wow, I really need that dictionary!
which trail = witch trial -- good grief!!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 13:53 - ID#213265)
@the scene
grim humor -- The difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't get worse when Congress meets.
Will Rogers

Liberal -- one who removes money and freedoms from others to console his own 'conscience'. That's MY applicable definition.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:04 - ID#317193)
tolerant1-smiley thing on my face!
Late last night A.Goose posted about "gold socks"-smiley thing then also. Thanks. Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:05 - ID#431263)
Methinks Islam ( the Brother Qaddafi variety ) will one day blanket RSA the same way it did old Zimbabwe, and the east coast of Africa, Zanzibar, Kilwa, Sofala and Mombasa! Maybe the Brits and the Boers and Diz will be relegated to a homeland for whites. Lesotho or Swaziland should do! Ooops! Forgot they're already "settled"! Well there's always the Great and Little Karoo or the Kalahari, if'n you can learn to communicate with
the San bushmen and the babboons! Just kiddin', Diz! : )

Spud Master
(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:06 - ID#273112)
Latest Federal Debt - Yikes!!! Spending like there's no tomorrow ;)
03/26/1998 $5,546,161,688,949.53
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34

Fiscal Year 1998 Federal Deficit is now a stunning $133 BILLION dollars.

Who said they thought the Fed/FedGov was buying back US Treasuries from Japan quitely?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:06 - ID#269245)
I'm outta here! C-ya all next week. I go to pound sand!
Got boats on my mind. Heading to CA. "Excuse me, will you except Canadian Maples for that boat?" - "huh, I don't understand... uh, I just want cash." - "Well, if I were you, I'd take the gold. Here, let me explain..." - c


(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:07 - ID#20748)
What size shoes do you wear pal. Just curious.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:07 - ID#213265)
@the scene
You all have to be careful about using 'relative' terms as conservative and liberal. In England, the way they 'pertain' to government are almost 180 degrees different in their meanings than in the US. In fact, anymore, it would probably behoove people to use the opposite terminology here since it has been the 'liberal thought' that has basically controlled this country for most of this century. Perhaps THEY are the 'conservatives' now, trying to hold unto that which they have wrought and the 'traditional conservative' is now the 'liberal' in that they want to change it all back. Perhaps better terminoly might be more apt, like constitutionalist vs. socialist, or some such.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:11 - ID#410198)
HenryD,hows this one for off topic......Reggie man..if America is a tolerant1 kudo's to
Reggie...1st. amendment means even if I disagree you have the right to say whats on your mind...with responsibilty......take a look who's jumping on him today...gays,lesbo's,NAACP,hispanics,Indians, America today the minoritys control the majority

Charles Keeling
(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:11 - ID#344225)
------------HERE COME DA BEAR----------------
HOT money has been pouring into equities following
the SE Asia Fiasco. The Japanese "BIG BANG" may send
more HOT MONEY into the market just in time for you to
have your three ( 3 ) hour celebration news event with a
DOW at +9000.

But the party will end with S & P 500 companies
reporting more and more low earnings. Greenspan will
also throw COLD WATER onto your party by raising
interest rates to prick the bubble that has developed.

THEN---the HOT MONEY will leave and July will see a
DOW that has lost at least 3,000 points. Smart
money will go into deep cyclicals in order to save the
fantastic profits that have been made in this market
that has been driven by moronic irrational exuberance.
Warren Buffet is trying to show you the way. AG has
given you fair warning!

Also, if the EMU can fly the BEAR will roar for years
as the dollar goes South.

Level with your viewers about how overvalued and
dangerous that this market has become. You viewers
deserve good honest truthful reporting.

are undervalued, and they can be used as a vehicle
to SAVE your viewers from unbearable losses of
paper profits.

Charles Keeling

( My e-mail message to CNBC )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:14 - ID#333127)
Sold half my position today in SWC

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:15 - ID#31868)
NJ - I knew I would be hearing from you,
I just knew it.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:16 - ID#36156)
Robnoel_A - Yep, that's pretty off-topic all right. - Go Gold!

Homestake Special Meeting:

RYO Ratings Raised:

Echo Bay Names New Operations VP:

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:22 - ID#234218)
(@ ALL) This is a gold forum, However!
This forum is made of many different individuals from many places with different perspectives. All have the right to their own views and opinions. They also have the right to express those views, within Bart's rules. On this forum opinions and/or views cannot be forced upon anyone who doesn't allow it. However, as an individual you have the right to state opposing positions and get on with your life how YOU choose. I have seen no evidence in this forum of anyone following blindly, someone's opinion, quite the opposite. I interested in and value all poster's comments, some I heed and some I do not. MY CHOICE!

I have finally come up with a formula for determining my own personal plan. I take each issue posted on this forum, take the number of posts regarding that issue, divided by the number of posters involved. Then I take the number of daily posters, times number of issues discussed. That gives me my plan of action. I DON'T CARE, I BOUGHT MORE!!!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:23 - ID#410198) we supposed to stay on subject when post expired info

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:24 - ID#348129)
@Y2K - "One-fourth of respondents said it's likely their company's computers won't be fixed by 2000"
5:31 PM 3/25/1998

Time running out for Year 2000 fixes

Companies might not have as much time as they think to prepare for the Year 2000 computer bug, according to a survey. The survey was e-mailed by the Information Technology Association of America to more than 2000 subscribers to a weekly publication that deals with Year 2000. Some computer systems of the nation's largest companies and government agencies are programmed to recognize "00" in the year field of a date as 1900, not 2000. Forty-four percent of respondents said their organizations already have experienced Year 2000 failures, while two-thirds said their systems have failed under test conditions. Ninety-four percent of the 450 respondents to the survey said the problems presented by Year 2000 conversions constitute a crisis for the United States and the world. While about one-third of respondents said their company reacted quickly to the problems posed by Year 2000, 45 percent said their organization has just begun its initial planning stages on how to deal with the crisis. One-fourth of respondents said it's likely their company's computers won't be fixed by Jan. 1, 2000.

-- Bloomberg News

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:25 - ID#36156)
Robnoel_A - Sorry, try this...
Gold Stocks Find Some Luster As Bullion Rebounds:

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:29 - ID#255151)
HepMeMoney @ 13:38

I think Europe is in deep trouble. I hope they make the EMU a Gold back currency, but I can't see how even that will save them. For reasons posted here earlier ( Ireland for example ) , they are trying to make this a "one size fits all" currency. It reminds me of the story of Procrustes, the mythical innkeeper. He had this bed that either stretched or cut off the sleepers limbs so they would fit the bed. ( hence the term "Procrustean bed" ) By focusing on the EMU, they have hopelessly fallen behind in Y2K remediation. A terrible mistake, in my opinion, that will haunt everyone in the next few months.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:31 - ID#373403)
Storms are coming
I sense the following:
DOW is volatile
Precious metals are volatile upward
Money supply ( M3 ) skyrocketing yet no inflation
Euro to challenge dollar for reserve status
Unemployment way down
Debt climbing even with a "surplus" forecast
Interest rate ( 30 year treasury ) volatile
Oil volatile
Saddam lives while our foreign policy is in shambles
No one cares about presidential scandals

I sense Surrealism. Reality will be a rude awakening.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:33 - ID#258129)
Technical analysis and attack on APH
Technical analysis and attack on APH
Nobody knows future for sure . It is known, that using technical analysis as a market strategy is better then random walk - in average. I do not understand why somebody can be accused, that he did not predict something, based on technical analysis. Sometimes TA gives right prediction, sometimes not. In average it is more then 50% - whats more to ask?
As far as I could follow APH messages - not every day - he made some money on silver and want to cash it now - what is wrong with it?
One more thing - "negative bias against gold & silver". There are more respectable posters here - like RJ - who play market in both directions. Again, what is wrong with it? There are two different sides of the story - making money and personal preferences. One can love gold, collect coins for example, not only as storage of value, but simply because he likes to collect gold coins and enjoy tacking about it with other people. But, at the same time, what is wrong to earn some money for this on current short move, where ever it goes? And announce such a person as a personal enemy and enemy of all other Kitco posters.
APH, I'd like to see more your messages

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:34 - ID#257136)
PH in LA. I certainly hope I do not "think exactly as you do".
I personally was impressed by the scenario given by prometheus in regard to HER children.
I know I have been ascerbic at times, and downright vicious at others. I see you have that capability also.
It's fine to lash out as you did.
That way it shouldn't effect your social life or family or business life.
I don't care what persuasion a person has. Only the behavior which I view as detrimental to our society is attacked by me.
I view liberal ( elitist ) agendas as short-sighted and demeaning to people in general. That doesn't mean I believe the proponents ( liberal individuals ) are wicked or evil.
I view a disticnt pigeonholing of individuals as being non-productive.
Liberal B.S. is to me a crime. As is the idea that "what's good for general motors is good for the Nation."
To me both of the philosophies supposedly pushed by the "conservative" or "liberal" groups are suspect in that each of them ( I believe ) smack of elitism, pure and simple!
I guess we should each think a little and put ourselves in what we believe to be the proper box.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:37 - ID#252150)
Realistic@Japanese Corps Repatriate Foreign Exchange
for their year end ( mar 31 ) . I expect the flows to reverse & the Yen carry trade to resume. This bodes well for the long bond, not so for POG.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:39 - ID#28593)
TYoung--Didn't you get your gold socks from Bart?
I have my gold socks, my $300 rice, and I'm one happy lil gold bug--well-garbed [well feet-wise] and well fed. LOL--which, as
I sit alone in from of my computer, makes me appear...strange?
what the heck, still LOL

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:40 - ID#287338)
@Funeral Hall
Goodbye Gold Bear! We will miss you. We will miss being irritated and depressed every time your around. The way you walked all over us and burned us every chance you could. You had a good full life but now its time to say goodbye. May you enjoy the rest of your time at peace in Gold Bear heaven. Goodbye Gold Bear

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:42 - ID#410198)
Are the smart guys buying you bet...this weeks CDN (numismatics)
Gold continues to be among the market leaders ( coins ) During the ANA,dealers said that the strong demand for Gold was evident throughout the Show.The grades requested range from XF and AU in circulated category to MS61 and above in mint state

As some here look to mining as an indicator,I look to the above to show the way,it's not paper but the real thing

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:42 - ID#298259)
heard on Bloomberg
According to their metals update one reason for the rise in gold was the unwinding of forward sales by a large Australian mining co. -- didn't mention which one.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:46 - ID#31868)
Frustrated - on
They mentioned Australian "producers" not just a single entity, but did not go so far as to name, names either

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:46 - ID#252197)
the village people
Current CNN viewer call in poll.

Does the blame for the recent Arkansas mass murders

lie on 1 ) the lack of gun control or 2} the southern


I would like to add or 3} an unadulterated criminal

personality behavior?

Talk about a rigged poll. My My My

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:47 - ID#31868)
robnoel_A - How much is a bet?
Couldn't resist.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:47 - ID#212197)
SEQUIN, HepMeMoney_Hmm: Euro Gold Holdings
These are very logical and convincing thoughts. I agree. They have only the one choice, to back the ECU with a lot of gold or else they cannot convince people and cannot make the ECU attractive. Without significant goldbacking the ECU will be a stillbirth. And the CBs know it. I find also your guess of 25% minimum very realistic.

Thank you very much for your macroeconomic assessment from earlier. I appreciate it!

I also liked that you pointed to the link between Soros and his sponsoring of drug related policies. These links are extremely important.
These links have tradition. He is also the broker of big old English money which to a far extent was accumulated through drug money ( think of the boxer wars ) . I think these links are much more helpfull to understand the political/ideological origins of the socalled "liberals" than personal fights.

Which should not keep anybody away from watching the moves of the strong hand extremely carefully. The strong hand usually will profit of any market direction.

Alberich the Dwarf

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:47 - ID#286279)
If you had not made that post, it's likely that someone else would have lit Spud's fuse with something similar. In that case you would be stepping in and moderating the situation and not feeling the way you do. Hope sayonara just meant g'nite. C'mon cobber.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:53 - ID#238295)
Bullion giving back some of its gains as the shorts counterattack but still up nicely. XAU climbing further though -- now up 4%.

Farfel: I do think APH is wrong with his latest gold call, but his record is very good. Better on the stock market than gold though if memory serves.

Oldman: Many here eagerly await your next posting.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:53 - ID#252150)
Farfel@I'm A Believer
I sold 20% of my ABX because it was up 9% in 3 wks. I don't try to time the mkt perfectly, but simply scale in & out. I sell when it goes up & buy when it goes down. As for being short AU-I'm not about to short the only investment that I'm having any success with, unless it makes a huge move that I think is unsustainable. I have been short some tech stocks lately & 1 copper miner & taken losses on all of them.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:54 - ID#251166)
Thanks for the updated url. Funny guy, eh, that George. Think he'll win the twenty from his boss?


Early Riser
(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:54 - ID#228275)
Gold seemed to kind of stagger into the close, but you sure wouldn't know it from the action on the XAU since the close! Anyone have any wisdom about that?

Could there be excitement about the level of the weekly close for gold?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:55 - ID#39971)
Auric/Y2K And Euro
Yep!This is a big question mark right now.Have read some in the past on

the issue,and as stated,I am not convinced they are as prepared as they

say they are.Germany calling this as reason for caution as well.But would

not a larger gold component add security against disaster in this case?

If not,the whole Y2K/gold argument is meaningless.Yes?

My post was trying to deal with the EURO strictly from the confidence

aspect of convincing the PEOPLE of it's sustainability in it's infancy.

This is no doubt the first big hurdle.The individual countries and their

position on who is getting the better deal is what is being tossed around

in the high level meetings.There may be many gripes,but the desire to

make it work will outweigh any one individual countries' stance that may

de-rail it.

Thanks for responding...gotta run....

PS:A close above 303 would have been great today,but looks like the

bears were loaded with ammo at the close.Back on the weekend maybe.....

Carpe Aurem
(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:58 - ID#339292)
Dear Mr. Hep,

You're post earlier talking about the necessary confidence levels of the EuroCB is interesting, but you do seem to take one profound liberty. You say that the confidence of the ECB early on must be strong in order for the bank to survive, and you say that the key to this confidence is a strong asset base backing the currency. Well, excuse me, but, ah, why would gold automatically be your leading asset in terms of confidence. One need only look at performance to see that US paper has soared and gold has sucked.

I agree with your supposition that the ECB wants to build confidence early, but I don't think gold automatically becomes the engine for establishing that confidence. Also, I have no idea what the micro-economic disposition is towards gold in the minds of millions of Europeans, but I think we have a pretty good idea about the way macro-economic establishment feels about it, and realistically, I think they're the ones with the decision-making power, regardless of the fiscal attitudes of the people.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 14:58 - ID#410198)
tolerant1 last time I fact,event,or outcome on which a wager is made,for you o wise
one...10,000 rupiah

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:00 - ID#252150)
HepMeMoney@Euro Au Holdings
I hope you are right & they hold 30%, but I have some serious doubts & reservations that they will hold that much. They are all paper pushers & AU is their mortal enemy. By holding a large amout of AU in their reserves they would be validating the importance of it---not exactly in their best interests. I would be surprised if they hold more than 15%.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:01 - ID#298259)
At least we here on Kitco aren't afraid to name names.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:10 - ID#329157)
jonesy 14:54
While it may be pretty certain that the Dow will plummet to the 5000 level or lower in line with the expectations of the bearish camp of which we are members, George's bet relies on timing the fall, which is far less certain. Since no consensus has emerged on the precise event which triggered the 1929 crash ( you will find various opinions, each of which is convinced they are right ) timing the crash is essentially a gamble. I recall several chart plotters around October/November 1997 comparing the 1997 and 1929 or 1987 charts and looking for an earlier fall, as in George's previous lost bet. The present chart comparison looks quite compelling, but consider the likelihood of getting the timing of a 70 year cycle correct to within weeks... Another factor to remember is that the chart patterns may very well be different from past cycles for two reasons: ( 1 ) People live longer, which affects the demographics, and ( 2 ) communications are much faster, so movements in the markets will not have the same dynamic behaviour as in the past, and interdependencies between world markets are also correspondingly strengthened. That said, the period immediately following the Japanese 'big bang' is looking interesting.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:11 - ID#373403)
I think you are all missing an important point when you state that a weak ECU will be a stillbirth. The ECU will be the preferred currency for at least those countries participating. Just like an Asian trade currency may not be widely held outside the Pacific Rim, it still has negative implications for the Dollar as reserve currency.

Those EU members whose reserves are held and controlled through the EU will have a bias towards their own currency.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:14 - ID#432148)
Inclined to agree with you, economists generally do not think that gold is necessary in the scheme of things. And theoretically they may well be right. What they forget is human nature and the nature of politicians. When politicians want to spend money, other peoples of course, they do so. And when they spend more than is coming in they just start the printing presses. Sooner or later this will of course catch up with them. When it does it will cause a great deal of suffering. That is when we trust those of us that hold the money of the ages will have our squirrel like qualities pay off. No guarantees of course considering the type world we live in. All IMHO

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:15 - ID#31868)
Check Steve Kaplans report this evening. Sometimes he has stuff cause he puts the report out later.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:17 - ID#255151)
HepMeMoney, et al

Regardless of how this plays out, the next few months promise to be interesting, eh? I DON'T CARE-I WON'T BE BUYING EMUS.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:19 - ID#258129)
Strong EURO
Who told that all in Europe want to have strong EURO? At least, not everybody. It is a view from other side of Atlantic. In some European countries with strong currencies ( Germany, Holland, etc. ) weaker currency will do good for export and stock exchange.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:22 - ID#31868)
Ero smuro
The Asians will determine the next powerful currency. Whitey has exactly what he wants currently, everybody thinking the Asians are toast.

Hmmmmmmm, I think not. This game is just getting underway. Next week should really be fun.

Oh my darlin, oh my darlin, oh my darlin paradigm...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:31 - ID#286279)
Yeah, and you're incorrigible as well ;- )


(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:31 - ID#427357)

Gold bullion prices are indeed cyclic. In absence of extraneous influences ( war, political unrest in a major area, and/or other international calamities ) , there is a seasonal trend in gold prices.

According to a study made by an internationally recognized financial research organization, "investors should be alert to the seasonality in gold prices." The study covered the 13-year period from 1982 through 19994 -- basically the major portion of the long bear market, which began in January 1980 when gold futures reached $850 per ounce.

The study results demonstrate bullion prices usually begin the year with first quarter weakness - which is worst in March. This is followed by increased strength in the price to August, when gold begins its second weakest month. Subsequently, the gold price trend strengthens to yearend.

The report asserts there may be identifiable reasons for the regularity of the gold cycle. March celebrates the end of the Chinese New Years festivities, the end of the Indian marriage season, and commencement of the Islamic holidays. August weakness is attributed to traditional summer vacation time in Europe. Similarly, the 11 weeks ( three months ) prior to Christmas account for 40% of jewelry sales, meaning good levels of fabrication demand are experienced in September and October, allowing prices to strengthen. And price strength at yearend is also typically "window dressing," since most producers and gold mutual funds use yearend prices for published statement purposes ( Annual Reports to the public ) - and therefore have a vested interest in higher prices, causing prices to be bid up.

Gentlemen, needless to mention we are at the end of the gold's weakest price month ( March ) - albeit bullion prices have ALREADY BEGUN TO RISE. Subsequently, based upon gold's 13-year seasonality study, we should be enjoying higher bullion prices for the next four months. CONSEQUENTY, gold mining stocks should indeed appreciate - perhaps even substantially.
1998's big play will be South African Gold Stocks.

PH in LA
(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:32 - ID#225408)

I hope that Prometheus did not feel offended by my satirical use of her? comments. I happened to find that they agreed with many of my own. The persons ( who incidentally have close ties to the potato family ) at whom I lashed out have recognized my intent and responded.

PS. Sometimes even I don't think the way I do. Always workin' on that.

Carpe Aurem
(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:33 - ID#339292)
If you're referring to gold hedge realizations in Australia, I know that WMC ( No.2 in Oz after BHP ) just announced that the hedge they procured in July 97 ( just before the Aussie gov't announced their disposals ) was just realized at a whopping $310,000,000 profit.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:35 - ID#298259)
Gold chatter
I DON'T CARE I'M BUYING least I'm not selling any.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:36 - ID#427357)

I decline the COPYRIGHT on my last posting - AND all others in the future, whether I forget to mark them "copyright" or not. Please
consider whatever I post here as PUBLIC DOMAIN - now and in the future.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:38 - ID#233199)
RSA Gold Mining Warrants?

Does anyone know of any warrants on RSA gold mining shares available in/through N.Am. exchanges?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:40 - ID#31868)
Carpe Aurem

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:44 - ID#317193)
Will the asian currency "compete" with the US$? That is the question. At the very least it should send a mountain of greenbacks home. Same with the Euro. IF this happens watch out-violent market swings in currencies. Did I hear the word derivatives-ouch! Change! Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:45 - ID#288155)
Carl~Donald--Would you take a look? I need a reality check. Thanks.
MIGA Mission Statement

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:46 - ID#407135)
Early Riser & Old Gold re XAU
Yes XAU is strong as is Canadian Gold & Silver index up 3% despite the fall in silver overnight. As shares usually seem to lead the physical market this is encourageing.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:46 - ID#238422)
Delphi/Your 15:19
You are right that weaker currency is better for
export. But EURO is a different gizmo with political
background, at least as a newcomer. It will weaken
to necessary level in some time, if needed...EURO
must be looking good and strong, because EURO is
a very hot bet of major European politicians.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:47 - ID#288155)
Tolerant1__"Oh my darlin, oh my darlin, oh my darlin paradigm"
BRABO! :- ) ) )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:49 - ID#39971)
One Last Post
Carpe Aurem:Your gold sucks...the dollar is king scenario is justified..

AT THE MOMENT.This has a history of change,like the seasons.Yes,the Mico

Economics ( read people ) are often left out of voting booth,but my post was

to bring to your attention the basic idealism that confidence begins at

home at the grass roots level.Ignoring this basic principal is suicide,

and the Central Bankers and Politicos are well aware of this.We must

take off our North American hat and look at things from a different

perspective.I would like to see more input from Europe here and folks

who have spent quite a few years there.

JAMES: 15% is still along way from what was being blathered about not

that long ago,eh?I'll stick with my 25% for now anyway.

RE:Strength of Euro....I just can't imagine the entire world wants a

weak currency in order to trade with the US.That sounds defeatist from

that countries' global perspective.May be short term..I dunno..but....

I get the feeling the USD being the only game in town is about to change.

ok..gotta run....

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:50 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Brother John, my number for a week was 303-303.50
Your number was 307. My horse finished first.

Your very proud brother Oris.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:54 - ID#317193)
US$ as a reserve for Euro & Yeno
If you wish to compete with the US$ you do NOT back your currency with the competion. You hold some but do not use it to back the new competing currecy. Open your minds eye. Smile. Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 15:56 - ID#384350)
Instead of trying to corner Comex, we should all get together and buy out the issuance of Mountie coins.

Then we agree to melt down 99% of them and sell it as bullion. The other 1% would make a nice keeper as a rarity.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:00 - ID#26793)
OK. I read it. What does it insure against? Investment loss is a pretty broad term. Much investment loss is stupidity. Am I insured against that? It all seems pretty vague. We need to see the fine print.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:01 - ID#31868)
TYoung - have you been to the site listed below?

Click on Introducing the Dinar and Dirham at the bottom of the page.

These folks are serious, certainly have the backing and are making some rather strong statements.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:07 - ID#255151)
Dow Down 40+ points today

Hey CNBC, put away the party hats and put the twist tops back on your champaign bottles! No Dow 9000 this week.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:10 - ID#373403)
Haha CNBC DOW going opposite direction of 9000
I find it so funny that a business "news" station gets so drippy and misty eyed at the thought of DOW 9000. "We hit 8000 during Squawk Box, if only we could hit 9000 during our show" The little pudgy guy made it seem like a telethon. "Come on people, just a little more, we're almost there".

And then there is the insult that they never announce gold on up days, only down. I'll dance on their worthless paper someday, hahahaha!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:11 - ID#251166)
PREDICTION: Only 10 countries, not 11, will charter the EMU.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:11 - ID#317193)
Been there, seen that. Serious and doing are two different things. Wish them luck, doubt sucess. Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:16 - ID#20748)
Finally, Ted Arnold of ML
grudgingly acknowledged in his daily commentary today that gold has a slightly firmer tone, because of the possibility of EMU holding somewhat higher gold reserves thananticipated, some of the shorts having elected to close their positions instead of rolling them forward and the gold chart has a slightly better look.

This post may help the trend following 'original thinkers' to revise their opinions. Yes ?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:17 - ID#339212)
@ VRONSKY, John Disney, Tolerant1 on SA stocks.

This was a big day for me, I dumped RYO ( all of it ) and got in to ASA and DROOY. You guys are excellent propaganda ministers and you have convinced me that SA stocks have a place in an investor's portfolio.

Farfel, the name RYO makes me ready to throw up. Thanks for the analysis.

Oris, I think there are better plays than RYO.

Bill Buckler
(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:18 - ID#256381)
Backing Euro with Dollars
TYoung ( 15:54 ) Precisely so, sir.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:20 - ID#410194)
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released this afternoon:

Gold: Rose 55,654 troy ounces to 626,336

Silver: Fell 1,401,026 ( !! ) troy ounces to 87,230,416 -A new 18 year low

Copper: Rose 9 short tonnes to 112,582

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:21 - ID#57232)
Strong Euro vs weak Euro -- Reasons why Euro might be better weak.
Delphi: Good point. My guess is that initially the Euro will be like a currency board, so the strong currencies will have a larger percentage. If there are many weaker currencies, there will be a trade advantage with a weak Euro ( I think ) even though the strong currencies are heavily weighted. I am no expert on this -- hopefully there is a currency trader out there who can explain this better than I. However, I still think that the gold-backed Euro makes a good sales pitch, as stability is probably more important long - term than strength. Look at the US dollar over the last 25 years -- too much up and down.

One item I am not clear on is how EURO CB reserves will be used to buffer the value of the EURO relative to other international currencies. For example, how does the EURO CB decide who to call if reserves run low?

GNP based? Population based? What confuses me also is why the EURO can be supported by less gold resserves - percentage wise - than the member countries? Lastly why are EURO total reserves so low? Is this just because this is the beginning of the phase-in, and most trade will continue for a while in the member currencies? Probably.

What really should be done is outlaw bonds, treasuries, etc in Euros, and issue them only in member country currencies. Then the EURO would be as steady as a currency board, and would need less gold backing. But -- that is not in the cards, is it?

I wonder if member countries are ready for the Euro launch 1/1/99. My guess is that the launch will be 'in name only' so that the deadline will be met. Initial Euro trading volums will be relatively low for some time, with a gradual phase in over years -- so much of this will be for show only for some time to come. Since these comments are from a physicist and not a currency expert, hopefully I will stimulate some discussion, IMHO.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:23 - ID#288155)
Donald--Well, you have to admit that bank vault's are filled with bushel baskets of "studpidity"...
and government agencies seem overly fond of "vague" terminology; black means gray, unless it is 'sunny' [where? depends] in which case black
is white.

The EXISTENCE of such an "insurance broker" boggles the mind--
well, this mind anyway. And it would appear that they are now to be
used as a political tool? [Not to suggest that has not happened in the
past, but rather that they are most assuredly purporting to offer
something to Turkey for keeping the lid on the dinar folk.

Thanks for your thoughts. It is really necessary to check some of this
through other minds {:- ) --I'll dig a bit more and see if there are
'flags' for which we might watch, in the "real" world.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:24 - ID#31868)
They are further along than you might imagine. I expect to see them in quantity here in the US before long, and many other countries as well. In addition to the obvious appeal to people of the Islamic faith, there are millions who would be able to afford coins in that valuation and would gladly purchase them the world over.

I for one plan on buying a couple of pounds of them as give aways to help spread the word, in addition to what I want for my holdings. But, then again, I'm nuts.

What a concept, putting gold and silver in the hands of everyone.

Mike Stewart
(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:24 - ID#270253)
Something generic to buy
It is obvious that many Kitco observers are looking for stocks to buy. If you don't have enough cash to buy a basket of them, you might like BGR Precious Metals in Toronto ( BPT.A ) . This is a closed end fund that is currently trading at a large discount to net asset value. They are very competent investors in junior mining issues and mid sized international miners. In the last bull market, the discount ( currently around 22% ) went to zero. You made money as gold issues rose and the discount vanished. Weekly net asset value is in the Sunday NY Times and Barrons. Quotes are on Yahoo.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:25 - ID#251166)
CJS @ 15:10
Wow, CJS! Wise response.

Re. Big Bang -- I'm seeing a glut of unwanted US$ in the form of off-loaded T-bills and bonds as a result of Japanese deregulation. Am I seeing straight?

Thanks! dj

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:33 - ID#31868)
Myrmidon - a thought on DROOY
Forget you own it, don't watch it like other mining stocks, in that I mean that gold needs to move on a strong basis upwards. It does not have to go through the roof, but sit tight and don't get nervous.

Today is a good example. A decent amount of shares traded - 552,600 for a gain of 1.35% - When gold starts proceeding, DROOY will kick and make you very happy.

John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:35 - ID#24135)
Rudyard Disney RSA Bedtime story for Cheesehead and Robnoel
For Robnoel
Thanks your comments to Mr Cheesehead.
He is one confused puppy.
He thinks I have rose colored glasses .. he is
Ill start again .. correct me if you think Im wrong.
For backgroung .. I came here 10 years ago in 1988
when everyone was leaving and you could buy stuff for
Based on personal experience in the cape in particular.
1. If you have capital rsa is the easiest place to make
money in the world .. this red haven has no capital
gains tax and no tax on dividends. Offshore income is
not taxed.
2. If you do not have money and have to live off the
economy if is much tougher. BUT professionals do very
well if they are in business for themselves.
3. Crime is bad in joberg and pretty well everywhere
but the Cape. Natal is very dangerous. The cape is very
safe unless you are looking for trouble.
4. Communism is a joke. African Blacks are naturally
conservative. Not only zulus but the ANC is having lots
of trouble in the eastern cape .. Xhosa country. The chiefs
dont like any form of government intervention in their
area of power .. just like Kwazulu.
5. Unions have lost a great deal of power and the
government is not supporting them.
6. The communist party is a bunch of UK castoffs
and general misfits. They have no budget and the ANC
keeps them around for laughs.
7. the ANC government is a mixed bag of useless jerks.
just like the Nats. Although they rule, They are
fragmented and weak. They end result is a government
somewhat like Italy. weak corrupt good for business.
8. Cheesehead seems to think that Islam will be a force
in RSA. That's dopey. Islam is a small force in the Cape.
It always has been BUT this is Islam Malay style not
Middle East style. The main Islamic effort here is
fighting the drug trade in the "colored" Cape Flat
areas. They are uninvolved in the Israel/Palestinian
business. And they are relatively small. Christianity
abounds in all its manifestations.
In my own opinion, Mandela is a useless self serving
pompous dork .. Ill be very glad to see him go .. He
is a media creation. Mbeki is just as capable but timid
and defensive. Buthelezi's statue may grow when
Mandela goes .. but he's getting old.
9. On fighting .. yes RSA is always fighting ..
Its a way of life .. if you want danger you can find
it .. and fast. There are leopards in the hills
around Capetown .. one was killed on the N1 a week
ago.. Ive lived here .. Japan.. Australia.. Turkey..
Arabia.. Andorra.. Virginia. I was pick pocketed in
Istanbul, house robbed in Australia, car stolen in
Japan, nothing bad here in 10 years ... maybe Im
getting smarter.
10. On Gold mines .. there is nothing anywhere in
the world to match the gold deposits in RSA. If you
want to believe otherwise .. please do so.. just
remember that I told you ... Once.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:36 - ID#20137)
Comex numbers still pleasing...Eligible silver down 534,790 and moved up.
Friday march 20 eligible gold stocks were 245,742, today march 27 eligible stocks ended at 182,784. A drop of 26% in one week.

warehouse stocks:
-- GOLD ( Quoted in Troy Ounce )

411,208 32,048 0 32,048 296 443,552
159,474 23,767 161 23,606 -296 182,784
570,682 55,815 161 55,654 0 626,336


-866,236 0 38,946,587
-534,790 0 48,283,829
-1,401,026 0 87,230,416

Gold 75,000
Silver 13,000
H.G. Copper 9,000

John Disney__A
(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:37 - ID#24135)
disney calling Oris
for Oris
Damn you're good .. you're really good
my brother

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:37 - ID#288155)
Delphi-JTF: Why EMU needs gold--yet another 'managment' reason
Monetary policy: Paradox facing putative targets
Wolfgang Mnchau examines the dilemma for European central bankers in deciding monetary policy

One of the few unresolved questions about the European Central Bank is the choice of monetary policy instrument. Two alternatives are on offer: monetary targeting, used by the Bundesbank and several other European central banks, and direct inflation targeting, used by the Bank of England and the Swedish Riksbank.

There are two broad schools of thought among European central bankers. One says it does not matter. In practice, monetary policy tends to be far more judgmental than most observers, especially financial market economists and journalists, believe.

Targets may serve as a useful input, but policymakers tend to "look at everything" when they set interest rates. This is known by economists as the "discretionary" approach.

Listing all the known arguments for monetary targeting - transparency,
consistency - he warns that the strategy hinges on the stability of money
demand, by which he means the relationship between the amount of money in
an economy and the price level.

"Preliminary research has shown that EU-wide money equations often perform better than comparable national equations. Nonetheless this may provide no safe guidance for the starting period of Emu in so far as the move constitutes a change of regime which might lead to breakdowns in empirical relationships," he said.

This may sound technical, but it is an important statement. Here, a leading central banker warns that the monetary policy that Europe's central banks have been using for more than 20 years may no longer work.

The argument is eerily familiar to central bankers and politicians in the UK. In the early 1980s, the UK had a disastrous experience of monetary targeting. The neat relationship between money supply and inflation, which had been observed for several decades, broke down as soon as the government elevated money supply to a policy target. This paradox became known as "Goodhart's Law", after Charles Goodhart, professor of finance at the London School of Economics.

Mr Goodhart is now a central banker himself, having been appointed as an
outside member to the Bank's monetary policy committee. His keen sense of
paradox is back in action again. He now warns that Europe could be hit by a modified version of Goodhart's Law.

Both Mr Hannoun and Otmar Issing, a senior member of the Bundesbank's
directorate, argued that EU-wide money equations were at least as stable as the national equations. Mr Goodhart says that this analysis may be founded on "an econometric error".

You can pick any 10 countries out of a hat, aggregate their money equations and come up with relatively stable relationships.

As an analogy, take an investment portfolio. Any 10 random group of
blue-chip stocks is likely to show a less erratic performance than any single stock. The effect of the larger number is to iron out the fluctuations. But if the 10 companies were to merge, the new stock might turn out to be just as erratic as any of the 10 components previously.

The danger of a breakdown in the relationships decomposes into two separate elements. First, the relationship between money and inflation within the Emu zone may be less stable than the statistics suggest. Secondly, even if it was stable, the switch-over from national monetary regimes to Emu might lead to a breakdown of such relationships, in the way that Mr Hannoun suggests.

Sorry this is so long;it is important enough to the gold/Euro concept to carry the additional length [i hope]

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:38 - ID#329157)
Japanese/Asians accelerating sales of US Treasuries in 4Q 1997:

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:40 - ID#384350)
Redeemable vs. Exchangeable
I will admit that currencies can be used to acquire PM's, but only as a medium of exchange. Currencies are not redeemable per se and are not assets in their own right.

Back before JFK was shot, you could take a dollar bill to a bank and say give me a Silver dollar for this, or 4 silver quarters. So in that way US currency was redeemable for a precious metal.

It's funny ( actually sad ) that when they took the silver redemption out of the US dollar, the US started deteriorating.

I heard that they even started taking some of the copper out of the penny a few years back, as it was possible that it would be worth more than a cent.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:41 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 29.07 A week ago today the ratio was at an all time high of 30.54. We are down 4.81% from that level and the chart looks pretty spikey ( but it has looked that way before and recovered ) The Dow stands at 600.87 in pre 1934 dollars down from 631.26 a week ago.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:43 - ID#210235)
Harharharharhar. You're ON today.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:47 - ID#238422)
No doubt there are better plays than RYO.
I wish I've avoided RYO from the start.
Now it's too late for me, I do not know
( for myself ) what to do, so I do nothing
and just hold...But RYO is a good school
for investor's mind - you learn in trouble,
not in success. I'm learning...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:47 - ID#258129)
@oris, TYoung
oris: When you add DM and NLG with lira and peseta, the average will be stronger then last ones, but weak in relation to DM or other strong currencies ( of course, sorry for simplicity ) . But counties with stronger currencies still willing to join the single one - EURO. Why? There are some economic reasons for this. I have mentioned two of them before - better export possibilities and positive effect to European multinationals ( like Philips, for example ) - annual balance in NLG, while a lot of turnover in USD. Amsterdam stock exchange ( 11th in the world, bigger then Honk Kong that made so much trouble last year ) always rally when $ goes up. Consider all these mutual funds, exporting enterprises and simply wealthy people with investments in domestic companies. Of course, EURO should not be too weak. Political question. But very much possible and even appreciated by some people a bit of weakness, at least in the beginning.

In some cases US$ is used as a traditional currency in business transactions. For example, if company needs to move a container from Germany to UK, the sea freight with high probability will be in US$. With introduction of EURO this will be probably over.

TYoung, 15:54: ECB will hold other currencies - US$, Y, may be others, for possible interventions to support EURO, not in same respect, as Gold. If, for example, EURO will decline too much in relation to $, ECB will sell dollars to support EURO rate.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:48 - ID#210235)
@iiiiiiiiiiit's Billy!
Anyone else seen the disgusting crud that was printed in the New York Post today about Billy boy? Reminds me of that old rhyme "Georgie porgie puddin' and pie, kissed the girls and made them cry". Wasn't that King George III being dissed?

( Warning, truly tasteless material )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:48 - ID#288155)
ALL--CGM chap on CNBC [I listen sometimes when I hear the word "Gold"]
He was somewhat inarticulate; stumgling around to explain the rise
in gold, he said a surprising thing: people -- LITTLE people -- in the Us, and to a lesser degree, in Europe, ARE BUYING GOLD COINS, and
it is showing up in that price "they" call spot. hmmmmmm BBL

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:48 - ID#329157)
Hedge funds trying to turn negative...putting bear spin out
Hedge funds selling treasuries today:

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:50 - ID#280215)
Gold Spot Price Overseas
This has probably been asked and answered a million times already, so I apologize. But could someone post a sight where I can keep track of the Spot gold ( or the precious metals in general ) price overseas after our markets have long closed and others are just opening? Thanks in advance!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:50 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .275 A week ago the reading was .244. We have not been at this level since after the October 27th mini crash when we dropped down from readings in the .320 range. The higher reading indicates that stocks are getting ahead of the metals.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:53 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 47.58 A week ago we were at 46.96

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:59 - ID#210235)
@PH in LA
Prometheus means "forethought", and has as it's opposite Epimetheus, which means "afterthought". Epimetheus was Prometheus' brother, an impulsive fellow who was always doing before thinking, and had much to regret. Prometheus the poster has no gender, and you need not take off your gloves. I fear, however, we have no basis for an argument today, as I agreed with your posts as well. ( Sigh ) Perhaps tomorrow.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 16:59 - ID#341189)
SDRer, Your post on MIGA
It sounds like one of Robert MacNamara's hairbrained schemes to leverage World Bank resources by having governments chip in on insurance for big bank loans. This represents a license to steal the money that's lent with no "moral hazzard" for the lenders - a nice little arrangement. The troublesome thing to me is how much liability is there out there in schemes like this? Could Rubin et al's desperate pleas for IMF funding be to stave off the liabilities that would come home to roost? There is just a desperate lack of information about how the large banks lend money with the collaboration of government agencies.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:03 - ID#210235)
@hermit, Isure, CARL, Frustrated, SDRer, a.j.
Thank you for the kind words.

( a.j., thank you twice. Please note mine to PH in LA below. ( : ) )

Spud Master
(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:10 - ID#273112)
Hmmmm. It's SERIOUS sexual discrimination of a serious nature when it's Anita Hill and her allegations. NOW goes beserk.

It's trivial clap-trap when its OMOMW ( one more of many women ) alleging sexual harrasment by Bill. NOW says nothing until pressed to the edge of being revealed as hyprocrites.

Actually, Prometheus, my opinion of the Clinton crew ( as I believe the opinion most Americans hold of the Clintons as well ) , can't go any lower.

I think the picture of Clinton in the South African prision clinging to the prison bars foreshadows his fate ( it certainly *is* the fate of many, many of his friends ) . We are only waiting for a lawful Impeachment proceeding now.

Spud, detecting another hypocrite & True Believer, and saying once again,
sexual harassment is *always* wrong, even if it is your totally-ego invested belief-symbol.

Bully Beef
(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:12 - ID#259282)
Prometheus gave fire to man and was punished by having his liver
eternally eaten by scavenger birds. ( vultures ) You chose a good handle and have lived up to it. Congratulations.I for one require my liver and I am using it now. Salute.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:12 - ID#427357)

REF: John Disney ( Rudyard Disney RSA Bedtime story for Cheesehead and Robnoel )

I would like to add something to Disney's comment about RSA gold reserves, when he said:

"10. On Gold mines .. there is nothing anywhere in

the world to match the gold deposits in RSA. If you

want to believe otherwise .. please do so.. just

remember that I told you ... Once."

Our GLOBAL GLOD COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS demonstrates the RSA gold stocks represent the CHEAPEST GOLD RESERVES per share in the world:

 Gold Reserves Per Share

RSA owns nearly SEVEN TIMES more gold reserves per share as North-America

RSA owns nearly FORTY-FIVE TIMES more gold reserves/share as Australian

 Market Price Per Ounce

North-America shares reflect a market price of $138.09 per gold reserve ounce

Australian shares reflect a market price of $172.00 per gold reserve ounce

RSA shares reflect a market price of ONLY $12.13 per reserve ounce

 Market Price Per Ounce - Expressed Differently

North-America gold reserves are more than 11 TIMES more expensive than RSA

Australian reserves are more than 14 TIMES more expensive than RSA

HERMANOS, it ain't even close!

1998's big market play will be in South African Gold Stocks

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:13 - ID#408147)
good week
FWIW - took some profits today and put them into cash. While I really like the fact that POG is 300+ at the end of this week, I do sense one more round of selling down to $292 coming up before a stronger rally past $300 occurs sometime in mid-April.

Its nice to have some actual profits after what gold has gone through in the past six months... Go Gold!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:14 - ID#31868)
Prometheus - Hmmmmm-off topic, sort of, IMVHO
Eventually all of these women cannot and will not be attacked as baseless liars. The very fabric of woman is now being put to the test through the actions of the Coward Erect and the resultant activities of his staff and lawyers. After all is said and done, eventually the sheer numbers of women coming forward will force people to say, hey, wait a minute, that could be my sister, my wife, or, what, lo and behold, my mom. When it gets to that stage, and I think we are near if not there already, they will politically boil him alive.

The media will soon come under tremendous scrutiny for not having exposed the Coward Erect for what he is as a man earlier. In addition the very grave and treasonable activities of the Coward Erect will be brought to light and both he and Envirowhore Gore will be tainted if not removed from office for their actions.

As I have stated on many occasions, the silent majority is far larger than is discussed in the polls and media. When they start to growl they will be heeded for fear of political suicide and the media will really distance themselves by developing scathing editorials about what happened to the institution of the Presidency, etc.

What is really sad is that it has taken this long, and that the Coward Erect has soiled the office in such fashion. He will pay dearly for this.

Charles Keeling
(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:15 - ID#344225)
When POG hits 400.00 RYO will be a 6.00
stock once again.

I have been there and done that with RYO.
There are better buys, of course, but you
will come out fine if you hang in there with
this high cost producer.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:15 - ID#257148)
About these 'ear loans --I'm starting business in the ear-carry trade-- Any eyeD'ears?
Salty kisses taste the same as salty tears.


Ive been listening to Gram Parsons & The Fallen Angels and The Louvin Brothers ( Tragic Songs of Life ) this morning, there must be something in the water over there to produce such fine song-smiths.


I have been somewhat overwhelmed reading your many kind words, I really had no idea that I had been lent so many ears, my friends, romans and countrymen. Grief reaches to the very core of our being humans. For we alone are aware of our mortality, our frailty, our brevity. Grief has many displays. We have seen some of them here. I am grieving still. I can say my grief no better than this half-forgotten sentence:


In the lost childhood of Judas, Jesus was betrayed.


Wisdom from my mate Rudi:

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,


& from the poet of Stratford:

Gold were as good as twenty orators. Shakespeare, Richard III


& from the heart of humanity

"Happy is the man that findeth wisdom and getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold."
proverbs ( 3:13-14 )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:15 - ID#329157)
"Difficulties" in Iraq weapons inspection...
Mysterious "off limits" area appears:

bernatz du ventadorm
(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:19 - ID#182192)
Vronksy, of course you are right
The reason gold rose today is because the leaders
of China and Japan read John K.'s exhaustive analysis
and said, "Well of course, we should allow our
economies to crash since this chap has put so much
effort into it..."

Naturally, as usual, you can e-mail me at:

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:22 - ID#210235)
@Spud Master
Heh? My post on BJ must have been unclear. I have posted material critical of the man so many times, thought my position was known. This article is so explicit that it may make some readers uncomfortable. Thus my disclaimer.

Not only do I believe the women who have come forward about BJ, I nominated this one for "ovaries of iron" award yesterday. The part about her freezing up and being unable to respond intelligently, I find especially believable.

Aragorn III
(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:27 - ID#212323)
Take your shoes off, put your feet up, and stay awhile. There is plenty of beer for us all.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:27 - ID#341189)
Tolerant1 - On the Clinton legacy
Remember the Fabian Socialists? Their strategy was to plant small seeds here and there and retreat so as to never lose a battle ( after Fabian the General as I recall ) . Well, what seens to be little noticed in all this scandal stuff is that Clinton hardly misses a day without expanding this little program here or there, or starting another "little" $50 million program to do this or that. After these programs grow, as they will, he will become known as the Johny Apple Seed of US "social policy".

Spud Master
(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:28 - ID#273112)
Sorry. PH'ed in LA and Clone are right ... I am so sickened by this whole mess that's going I can no longer parse English sentences correctly.

I'm going off line for the next 48 hours to watch "Predator", Terminator" and "Apocalypse Now" over & over until I am calm again.

Spud, slicing chest with big Bowie knife and waiting for Predator on log over river.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:31 - ID#384350)

If he's going to act like that, why didn't they just put Butthead in office. Remember when Butthead was captain of the enterprise and said to a female attendant, "I order you to take off your clothes and show me your thingies". "But Captain, that's against intergallactic law", said Beavis.

Kind of makes me wonder what this guy is going to do after his term expires. Will he go off to Budapest to work in the local film industry?

Bully Beef
(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:33 - ID#259282)
If Bill Clinton assaulted any of these women he should
have his foreskin nailed to a stump and get pushed off backwards. However if they consented and Hillary obviously doesn't mind ( as long as she can push her agenda ) then I don't know what the fuss is. Polititians get a lot of offers your honour. Thats one of the perks of being powerful. Temptation. Think about it oh ye would would cast the first lump of gold.
As a northern neighbour I feel much safer with Clinton in control of the most powerful nation in the world than Newt, Ronnie Raygun, or Pat Buchannan. Thats my opinion. The markets are closed, gold done good, and we are all a little better off than on monday.Salute!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:36 - ID#210235)
@T1 - BC off topic?
On the contrary, Clinton's crisis very likely was behind the gold price move when the Monica story broke. It may move markets again, especially if more women come forward. NOW has spoken at the time of the Willey case. If she told the truth, BC should be prosecuted. Heard it on TV a couple of times.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:36 - ID#255151)

Will toast some DB Bitters to ya next time I gotta few days off.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:40 - ID#411112)
Vronsky/John Disney,..I could list for the strategic minerals and natural resources

in South Africa that compare to and excede gold,it is the most abundant country in the world when it comes to natural question about that...unlke John I was born in Bulawayo,Rhodesia and spent 20 years in SA....surfing, working, ( Capital Radio ) ,and fighting a war...a real one....I was drafted in 69 got out 71.....being English ( speaking ) there was always tension between the Afrikaaner and us..especially in the is knowing the boers as I do,we will see something, what I don't know....700 boer farmers have been murded to date....these guys will fight back it's their heritage...dumb yes, proud yes,smart no.......John wish it was that good when I was there last 1980

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:41 - ID#238295)
Clinton and SA
Wonder if this gold rally has anything to do with Clinton's trip to SA. I'm sure Mandela must have urged Bill in no uncertain terms to tell Bob Rubin to tell Wall Street to lay off POG. Just thinking out loud, but the timing of this rally does support such a scenario.

Interesting that FSAGX closed at the high of the day despite late weakness in bullion.

Eldorado: I think you and I agreed a few weeks ago that POG might have a false breakout below $290 prior to the real breakout over $300. Does look like this script is playing out

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:41 - ID#252150)
Mike Stewart@BGR Prec Metals
Good advice. I hold the warrants & was pleasantly surprised to see that they are up 16% today. They expire in 2004 & could easily double if POG gets back to 380.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:45 - ID#251166)
Bison Killer
Me heep big bison killer. Me kill bison. Bring to cave. Squaw skin. Kids play with bones. One day no bison. Squaw say, "Where bison?" Me say, "No more bison, only bear." Squaw say, "Me hate bear." Me say, "Me too." Lay yellow round on skin. Squaw say, "Pretty." Me say, "Like many bison." Squaw try. "Taste funny. Hard like bone." Me say, "Yellow round good for time of bear." Squaw say, "Where find yellow round?" Me say, "Trade for bones." Squaw laugh. "Bones? Bones worth nothing." Me smile. Squaw say, "So eat what?" Me say, "Eat bread, eat vegetable, maybe fish or bird. Good for kids." Kids make face. Me say to squaw, "And good for boom-boom." Squaw eyes get big. ( Squaw like boom-boom. ) "So eat what?" Squaw say again. Me think. Time of bison over. Time of bear coming. Kids hungry. But have bones. Me say, "Taco Bell?" Kids say, "Yay!"

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:45 - ID#252150)
I hope you Y2K bugs are right about the severity of the problem
I bought some shares in a Cdn Y2K Co. today. I think it's a safe bet as it only has a P/E of 140.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:45 - ID#31868)
Carl - Hmmmmmmmm - this will provide the advantage
to have all the programs cut and abandoned. In addition, the policies that have brought us to ruin will be blamed on the Coward Erect and the Democratic party. ( fairly or not, in my opinion the US has only one party )

Many abrupt changes could occur, the important thing once again is to insulate yourself and those you care about from the coming turmoil.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:46 - ID#317193)
tolerant1 16:24
Gold and silver in the hands of the public-never will happen. Has not been so for over 30 some years and, except for 5,000 or 6,000 years before that, history teaches this is truely a novel idea. You are unique, not nuts. How's that for a positive approach. Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:47 - ID#238295)
Vronsky: The SA golds do indeed have considerably more upside than the American gold stocks. But again I ask the question -- why were you so bearish on SA a few years ago.? Why the change of heart?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:48 - ID#238422)
Simplicity is what I personnaly like most of all.
When you talk to Europeans and ask them about EURO,
they mainly like it for the reason of eliminating
currency exchange charges - very simple approach.
The same simple approach leads to the logical
conclusion that EURO will be connected to gold,
in this case it is a pure EUROPEAN politics that
dictates this need for EURO to be connected to gold,
and not to the US$, at least on public.

Funny example of simple approach to the information:

If 100 randomly chosen Russian males in Russia participated
in a survey, and result of survey showed that none of these
hundred males drinks vodka, my conclusion would be that this
survey was manipulated or these males were not Russians.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:49 - ID#210235)
@Bully Beef
Thank you. I agree, a liver is a wonderful thing. So is a Friday market close with gold hanging in there above 300. Prosit!

Signing off.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:50 - ID#384350)
Does anyone know a good RSA mining company that has little or no debt and that pays a decent dividend?

While the current government's plans to confiscate white farmers' land is inquieting, the fact that some of the world's wealthiest families have considerable interests in So. Africa makes it less likely that there would be nationalisation of the mining industry. Steal from the little guy who cares, steal from the king and the sentence is death.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:56 - ID#288155)
Carl--Incredible--that is exactly what came to my mind!
Suggestions for going forward? The concept is so radical, I'm not quite sure for 'tell-tale signs'; probabilities suggest this kazoo vine is twined around a good many loan towers...[And--of course-- my thanks! Never Disappoint!]

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:57 - ID#31868)
TYoung - a shift in attitude could quickly come over the
horizon. You take laptop computers for granted, imagine showing one to someone 30 years ago, let alone the fact that we are communicating the way we are right now.

The old becoming the norm in the new. Cycle after cycle after cycle.

Unique, not nuts, Hmmmmmmm, TYoung, I appreciate the thought, trust me, I'm nuts.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:58 - ID#279406)
Go through all of this:

and you'll see exactly where all of the great society programs have led, and are leading us...I'm sure you'll especially be delighted to see a sample trend graphically displayed, since you might just favor more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more...and more of the same...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:58 - ID#341189)
I wish I were as confident as you are of program cuts. I'm afraid I see the stage being set for a massive quantum leap in the size and power of government. Atlas Shrugged still haunts me. In hard times, an anchorless people rush to "Escape From Freedom". As you say, there is only one party. It is the party of poll watchers.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:58 - ID#401460)
30 YR Bond

Just Creepin up on everyone.^tyx&d=b

How much did the Fed buy today?


(Fri Mar 27 1998 17:59 - ID#253153)
South African VS North American Gold Stocks
South African gold stocks have large reserves and pay dividends. However, there is too much uncertainty as to the political future of South Africa and for that reason I would not invest much there.
North American stocks are politically safe and in our backyard. In the 30's North American gold stocks appreciated ten fold more than the South African mining shares. Perhaps %5 of your gold mining investments should be in S.A.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:00 - ID#238422)
Charles Keeling
You are right, it's just "time is money" problem...

I'm looking for $3.25 this year to get out of 50%
of my position with some reasonable gain, then
we'll see... Something tells me RYO is not a complete
loser, but I've been wrong a few times.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:02 - ID#411149)
Old Gold- I will answer your question to vronsky. Because he
CHECKED out the FACTS!!! He found the TRUTH as I did two years ago
when I went to SA to find the TRUTH for myself!!! Nuf Said!
Iffin you want to get RICH you will look at the SA golds shares.

Tally Ho

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:02 - ID#401460)
jonesy (Bison Killer)

Taco Bell ?


(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:08 - ID#317193)
Lighten up on the folk. This is really not a test of manhood ( or womanhood;does that make any sense? ) . Anyway, discounting the spear catching remarks, I still see an impact from Asia on the price of gold within the next three months. I don't discount that events in the US can greatly affect the value of gold within this time period, but my query was dircted at the East. Events there could cause gold to jump either way. Huge inflows of currency to the US =gold down. The opposite is also true if I'm quessing correctly. In any case, I see change coming soon. Tom P.S. a positive and considerate post is not a sign of weakness.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:08 - ID#384350)
@highrise Tbonds

And think what it would have been like if Buffett hadn't bought all them T-Bonds last year.

Could it have been that someone like Rubin or AG called him and said be patriotic, you have deep pockets, buy Amerikan bonds.

An investment in both Silver and Bonds seems to me to be contradicting.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:09 - ID#288155)
Carl-Doanld: Oh My God! The World Bank, via MIGA as a brokerage!!
"In 1995 it also introduced a brokerage program, encouraging investment brokers to cooperate with MIGA."

Frankly, I'm starting to hope that the China International Futures
Engineering Company, Ltd. is EXACTLY what my work suggests it is {:- ( ( (

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:11 - ID#210235)
Hi. Missed your post before. Budapest film industry? YES!

Now I'm really outta here.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:13 - ID#411112)
Shadowvista..GREAT LINK,thank you..who ever put that together..deserves serious kudo's

strongly urge all to bookmark ....another Kitco gem

Mr. Mick
(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:13 - ID#345321)
Tolerant, just got your message from last night re Kutyn and Milhouse.......
will check them out. Thanks.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:13 - ID#341189)
SDRer, Where to start????
Two thoughts come to mind. First, can we locate one or more former highly placed banker tech types who have fled into teaching. If this were 20 years ago I'd know just who to ask at Michigan's Business School, but alas my friend there is dead. Most schools have web sites with all kinds of faculty info - maybe there. My thought is that somewere, someone is teaching about this. Second, James Grant. He might just have the kind of knowledge and conections and interest to be hooked by the issue. What do you think?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:15 - ID#384350)
Buffett and Bonds
Buffett said in latest Annual Report that he found the yield of the long bond attractive at 6.5% and took the risk. With a flatter yield curve today, might he not exchange his long bonds with something shorter in nature?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:19 - ID#317193)
When was the last time the South African mines were shut down by political strife? Anybody able to save me some time? The horse is already out of the barn, but I'd like to know anyway. Thanks. Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:19 - ID#347235)
Unrest at Fidelity Funds
Mr. Romano leaving for "Personal Reasons" harbinger of things to come for more funds managers? I for one think so. I will buy more gold as long as I can and wait for the ride even if it takes YEARS!!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:20 - ID#288155)
Carl:Carl (SDRer, Where to start????
What do I think. Brillant! bbl

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:24 - ID#31868)
Mr. Mick - I was thinking ( no smart remarks)
You might want to read the last installment of MacAlvaney on the digest page at golden eagle. It has some interesting viewpoints as well as certain recomendations mixed in with how the essay projects things coming down.

Aragorn III
(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:25 - ID#212323)
Continuing education for weekend lurkers, D.A.'s Fiat 101 (continued)
Tracking the ever-increasing US National debt from day to day is no different than watching a keeps getting bigger and there is no way to stop it. UNLESS...the method of payment is changed. By now everyone should be aware that the private Federal Reserve is the money-making proxy for the USTreasury because it is illegal for the people's USGovernment to make money other than through a well-defined recipe of this much gold or that much silver ( in coin form, and denominated in DOLLARS ) . I will touch on the element that D.A. glossed over as it pertains to the growing and unpayable national debt.
As warranted by social-economic-political conditions, and by the
shortfall in taxes received vs. Govmt expenditures, the annual
shortfalls in the budget necessitates creating dollars out of thin air.
But wait! Gold and silver don't come from thin air, hence the need for
using Federal Reserve Notes ( denominated in dollars ) in lieu of real
Here's how it happens...The USGovt does have the authority to borrow,
so that's what it does--through the selling of Treasury bills to
whomever will buy them. Of course, when they mature, more money is owed
than the value for which they were sold, and that is the INTEREST on the
National Debt. Historically, the Federal Reserve acted as the primary
buyer, and the Federal Reserve Notes were printed as needed to purchase
the Treasury Bills. The USGovt uses this "money from thin air" to pay
for all of the programs that cost in excess of its willingness to mug the
taxpayers. This process continues year after year.
Eventually, some of the Treasury Notes come due and must be paid in full
which includes the interest. Paying off these debts becomes just another
one of the Govt's many annual expenses. Let's leap forward to a point
where the USNational Debt is say, FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS. All of the
money--excuse me, GREENBACKS--circulating in the system were originally
created via the process described above. A T-bill was sold by the USGovt
to the Federal Reserve. The Fed Res printed greenbacks in exchange for
that T-bill which it now holds with the expectation that the greenbacks
they printed will be paid back some future day WITH INTEREST. Wow.
Let me make my point clear with this example... If the USGov decided to
settle the National Debt tomorrow, and they called in ALL of the
GREENBACKS in the world, they would only have the money from the sale of
the T-bills, with no greenbacks left to pay the interest. How can the
Fed Reserve, as the sole source of greenbacks, expect to EVER get back
more than created to begin with? This is where accounts and transfers
using electronic money adds smoke & mirrors. As the bull rages on Wall
St., new money is seemingly being created independent of the Federal
Reserve. Increasing valuations of stocks can be used as collateral on
loans, and the banking system of fractional reserves is utilized to the
fullest extent as EVERYONE now has sufficient collateral to obtain a invest in further raise valuations...etc
But, when the music stops, it becomes apparent the valuations were only
gains on paper if you failed to sell at the top. Imagine the ensuing
deflation of the balloon. All of those potentially taxable gains are
gone ( the so-called "paper gains" ) and what is left at the end to pay
back the T-bill? Greenbacks. Unless the method of payment is changed,
the National debt can only get larger at a rate equal to the weighted-
average interest rate on all T-bills ever used to bring the greenbacks
into the system.
The fix? The USGovt redefines the dollar as a gram of pollution. :- )
Barges head toward all foreign t-bill debt-holders, and a nasty pile
appears on the doorsteps of Federal Reserve member banks' headquarters.
Too unsavory? Might enrage foreign debt-holders? OK, then...redefine the
dollar as equivalent to 0.001 grams of gold. The Debt could be settled
in full using approximately 5,000 tonnes of the US gold reserves. Anyone
holding gold could walk up to the USTreasury and they could then legally
issue you a REAL dollar at a rate of 1,000 for every gram, or 31,103 for
every ounce. And no future interest would be owed by the USGov for the
'minting' of this real money. The mechanics are debatable, but the
principle is what the US was founded on.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:32 - ID#398105)
Aragorn III (Continuing education for weekend lurkers, D.A.'s Fiat 101

So, what is stopping the US from doing this ???

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:32 - ID#317193)
bernatz, if you wish to respond, before doing so, take the post with a pinch of-----

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:32 - ID#411149)
Charles Keeling-I really enjoy what you got to say! As for RYO
if you are right and $400 gold = $6.00 RYO then I will have a
10X probably in July, ain't bad for the quarter.

JP- appreciate you too but who the HELL are you to tell anybody
that 5% is all the SA they should have, don't you think that is
a personal thing. LIKE HOW RICH DO YOU WANT TO BE! Yes there is
risk in SA but there is risk in the USA and Canada and everywhere
else. I can tell you I drove all over that country and all I found
was a bunch of GOOD folks! Yes, in some places them BOYS would look
at the Rolex and smile and then look at me and smile again. In New
Orleans they would have done shot you and s--t on you as they ran off!
Nuf said.

Tally Ho

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:41 - ID#288155)
When will US/Canadian/UK troops be out of Bosnia? Not until the INSURANCE
Guarantee expires ( MIGA/World Bank can't cancel the "policy" )

MIGA Member Countries ( 144 )
EUROPE/CENTRAL ASIA: Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bulgaria, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Republic of, Croatia,

Through its guarantee program, MIGA provides investment guarantees against certain non-commercial risks ( i.e., political risk insurance ) to foreign investors in developing member countries. The program is designed to complement national and private investment insurance schemes.

Currency Transfer
Breach of Contract
War and Civil Disturbance

MIGA's investment guarantees are long-term: The standard coverage term is 15 years ( non-cancelable by MIGA ) , which may be extended to 20 years under certain circumstances

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:41 - ID#426220)

JP ( South African VS North American Gold Stocks )

You said: "North American stocks are politically safe and in our backyard. In the 30's North American gold stocks appreciated ten fold more than the South African mining shares."

Mr. JP, I think you are bluffing. I indeed have all of the figures for what N/A gold stocks did in the 30s, but I do NOT BELIEVE YOU HAVE ANY FIGURES for what the RSA gold stocks did in that period. Come, come now, mustn't make up facts to fit your preconceived notions.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:43 - ID#317193)
Five to six thousand years of proven history can not be undone by government. Gold and silver will return-just a question of time. Thirty years is a speck in time. Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:46 - ID#267219)
JP - SA vs NA gold mining stocks vs ASL
Ashanti ( ASL ) , based in Ghana, is a good alternative to South African companies. It is a stable, well-run company, profitable at current gold price levels with PE 18.25 and decent yield of 2.19 %. Cash operating costs in 1997 were $234/oz. Had record production greater than 300,000 oz in 4th quarter 1997.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:49 - ID#258129)
First of all, thanks for reply and sorry for long answering time. I am not used to answer serious question fast.

JTF: As we know now, "external reserves" or backing of EURO will be EURO 50 B. Why this figure and not another one - who knows once was decided I think, it is possible, that contribution of different countries to this reserve regarding %% of Gold can be different per country depending on situation in each country. Some have more then enough Gold and would be happy to cover all share with it, some not. Also important, that ECB will book Gold at current market price and not current book price of particular country. The differences of book price of Gold in various European countries are well known, in fact current book prices often does not correspond to anything real. "How does the EURO CB decide who to call if reserves run low?" - besides ECB there will ESCB - in Dutch transcription - not sure how it is in English - a legal form of the union of CBs - participants, where each national CB of EMU countries will be represented and that will take necessary decisions. Democracy here.
How ready are al the countries? Difficult question. Cash remains the same for some time to go. For sure, business transaction will be in EUROs next year. My accountant told me that he had to invest a lot to be ready on Jan 1. What is also important - all bourses in EMU zone are going to trade in EURO from Jan 1. All share prices etc. to be adjusted.

SDRer_A: Question is good - not for the first time. I saw some statistics on this matter. I will be glad to post some data tomorrow - my wife already expressed what she think about all my 4 computers in house. Bit late here. But in general - money equations - they are different even in the same country in different regions - prices, for example. For sure, inflation in different EMU countries will be different after implementing EURO.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:51 - ID#401460)
Clinton in Jail cell

Clinton looked pretty natural in Mandella's SA prison cell. With his hands on the bars looking out the barred window.

It looked as if he was trying it on for size.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:58 - ID#263379)
Silver....Why not up today?
With silver COMEX inventory dropping like a rock, and Gold rising, how can silver show such wealness today?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 18:59 - ID#411149)
Dyzd- I been watchin Ashanti for a long time. When I was in SA
the NatWest analysts had jest gotten back from evaluating Ashanti
Gold Fields and he was high as a kite on the project. It ain't done nothin so far and is priced at around $10? Heck ten times is $100
not enough for a big piece in my portfolio but deserves attenton.

It all boils down to how much do you want to make and what is your
RISK level?

For me I prefer a BUNCH of DROOY! and RYO and TVX! You see my sister n law is the largest land owner in the SOUTH and I intend to buy her out
for pennies on the $$$$$.

Tally Ho

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:02 - ID#31868)

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:02 - ID#398105)

Carl ( Tolerant1 - On the Clinton legacy ) ID#341189:
Remember the Fabian Socialists

Clinton would have picked up his "theoretical" socialism when he was a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford. All very "nice" in theory, but does not work in practice.

In Australia, we have had "two of a kind" for a period of 13 years - Hawke and Keating. Their new socialism tried to totally centralize all Government decision making, and in doing so the National Debt went through the roof. A spin off from this is that the Tax System here is 20 years behind Europe........Tax, Tax, Tax, Tax..........

One of the policies that "they" put in place was Native Title. Again, all good in theory, but never works in practice. Certain members of the local community use Native Title as an effect means of extortion - and this is slowly killing mineral exploration in Australia.

Less Government all round is required, and less Tax. In Australia, laws passed by the Labor Government prevent a Public Servant from being fired .........amazing.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:07 - ID#258129)
Thanks for reply. Regarding Your survey example: its weathermen, who forecast weather. An other team is making it ( an other, not another ) .

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:12 - ID#398105)
a.j. - " I live in Arkansas................"

Out there in good old Hill Billy country, are you the only one linked up on the Internet ???

Is Bill Clintons' favorite tune - Dueling Banjos..............

At least we have the Bagpipes !!!!

Och Aye the Nooooooooooooooooo.......

Lan Man
(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:15 - ID#31766)
New URL of SJK
In visiting the Investor1 site where S.J. Kaplan is setting up his new home, noticed

a neat little utility that displays all users that are currently logged on. It displays

the IP address, origin and length of time logged in. See it at

May need to login to the site ( ) to use. Possible backup?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:15 - ID#57232)
Euro Monetary Policy - heading home -- gone for a while to Smokies
SDRer: I liked your 16:37 about the EURO. One very interesting point is that if eventually all of the EMU countries get 'homogeniized' so that all economic policies are the same, then the currency stability offered by a diverse patchwork of economic policies will be no more, and the EURO will need more currency ( or gold? ) reserves than it will need at startup.

Am I the only one who thinks that the EURO seems to be an entity that is being designed by 'a committee'? What I mean by that is that it seems to be run by consensus right now, rather than like the US or German central banks. I am willing to bet that the honeymoon may be relatively short, or that the implementation of the EURO on 1/1/99 may be initially little more than a show for the media. There was talk about emulating the US FED. I hope for the sake of Europe that this is what is done.

I think one thing we can watch is the volume of trade in EURO currency. If it is much less than the collective trade in the member countries, it is not really being used. Eventually this may lead to the downfall of the EURO if it is not fully implemented in a 'reasonable time', whatever that is.

As 'you know who' would say -- I will be gone for a time -- but I can't seem to make it sound mysterious.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:21 - ID#341189)
Thanks for your obsevations on socialism. What is Native Title?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:22 - ID#348129)
@TSE: "Goils" - Over the week the gold sector has spiralled upward by a stunning 12 percent
Friday March 27, 6:40 pm Eastern Time

Toronto stocks boosted by golds

TORONTO, March 27 ( Reuters ) - Toronto's main equities index climbed to another record close on Friday on the back of a rallying gold group and across-the-board gains.

The Toronto Stock Exchange 300 Composite Index rose 53.22 points or 0.7 percent to 7622.53, eclipsing its all-time high of 7607.21 set on March 25.

``Obviously about half of that was the gold index,'' said Rolie Bradley, Maison Placements Canada trader. ``That's the big win.''

Volume was a moderate 108 million shares worth C$1.8 billion. Advancing issues handily outnumbered decliners 602 to 470 and 269 issues closed unchanged.

By comparison, the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 50.81 points to 8796.08.

Overall in Toronto, 12 of the 14 subindexes racked up gains led by a 3.3 percent rise in the gold index as the April price for COMEX gold rose US$1.30 to US$303.10 an ounce.

Also up more than one percent were base metals and minerals, media and conglomerates.

The influential oil and gas sector also finished positive.

The only weaker sectors were real estate, off 1 percent, and pipelines, down 0.04 percent.

Bradley called today's action -- based on key golds and oils -- a ``goils'' market. ``When the golds go up and oils go up, we really fly,'' he said. ``This is just a continuation of the same thing.''

c from Monday's open of 6338.55 points.

Also, the TSE 300 Composite Index advanced 2.4 percent over the week from Monday's start of 7444.24 points. --- HOT STOCKS ---

* Barrick Gold Corp. ( NYSE:ABX - news; ( ABX.TO - news ) ) , one of the world's largest gold miners, rose 1.15 to 31.10 and topped most actives.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:31 - ID#348129)
@I wonder if we can substitute "Fund Managers for Cows" and "Equities for Grain" in this story......
Insatiable Cows Keel Over After Fierce Feeding Frenzy
March 27, 1998

OLYMPIA, Washington

They ate until they died.
That's the story of 32 dairy cows in Olympia, Wash.

It all started when a cow managed to shake loose a pipe on an automatic feeding machine, spilling tons of grain.

Dairy farmers Bobby and Judy Odermann discovered the spill when they went to milk the 70 Holsteins and Jerseys. Bobby Odermann says it was an absolute "feeding frenzy."

By afternoon two were dead, and another 30 followed.

A veterinarian says when cows eat too much grain too quickly, it triggers a chemical chain reaction  creating too much acid. He says once the acid enters the cows' bloodstreams, they're goners.

Aragorn III
(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:33 - ID#212323)
The Interest Issue...
Gold is frequently disparaged as a non-interest bearing asset. That is not a reflection of the asset as much as a statement on its underlying value. Interest is a phenomenon of *business agreements*, it is not an inherent property of an asset or currency.
Two iron boxes. Gold in one, greenbacks in the other. Ten years elapse. Boxes are opened. To no-one's surprise the same gold is found in the first box. The second box is opened, and to everyone's horror the same cash is found...but WHERE'S THE INTEREST?!!!
When debating which asset has better *inherent* properties, gold wins every time.
The phenomenon of interest is a business agreement that by its very nature and usage should give tremendous insight into the underlying value of the asset. From the above example and from my earlier post is should be clear that when the Federal Reserve lends its greenbacks ( while holding T-bills as collateral ) , it should seem no more realistic for the Fed to expect the those greenbacks to multiply than when you lend your step-ladder to a friend for temporary use. Do you ask for 110% of your ladder to be returned? Interest is part of the business agreement because the Federal Reserve ( and therefore all other banks ) knows the underlying value of the asset for what it is...a temporary and ever-eroding confidence game. While the greenbacks are away on loan, their purchasing power is diminishing, particularly because the Fed knows it will eventually be printing more of them as required to pay the interest on the original T-bills. The Fed and bankers benefit because they are the first in the 'food chain' to receive the 'money from thin air' ( interest ) and they can profit from it by spending it before every hard working producer can compensate in-kind by raising the prices for thier products or services.
Interest COULD be earned on gold. It's just a business agreement, after all. I could lend you 500 tonnes of gold ( I'm very well connected! ) with the arangement that you will agree to return the 500 tonnes plus 50 tonnes as interest. On an individual basis this principle and the mechanics are no different that the cash example where a banker lends $500 and expects $550 in return. The borrower cannot *create* either gold or greenbacks. The borrower must work hard, using the gold or cash to support their venture, and *earn* the necessary gold or cash from OTHER people in order to repay the original loan plus interest.
The DIFFERENCE is when you look at the big picture. The banker KNOWS where the cash comes from and how quickly its value erodes. Having ( and spending ) greenbacks today is better than having that same number at a future date. True, gold IS being mined every day, but the additional amount does not compromise the monetary system. There is sweat-equity built into every rare and precious ounce. There is only USGovt debt built into every greenback...which must find its eventual way back home to the Federal Reserve to pay off the underlying T-bill--plus interest.

A business agreement where gold was used as money would indeed include payment of some additional amount in consideration for making the original loan. If that 'interest' were paid in gold, the rate would be much lower than is used for cash, because gold today is NOT worth less than the same amount of gold at a future date. The 'interest' paid on a gold loan would be more akin to a share of the profits as an investor would expect in whatever venture was undertaken. Gold loan for a house purchase? Very low 'interest'; little additional metal required for repayment. Why? Because arguably, the world supply of products and services is growing at a faster rate than the world supply of gold. It is reasonably expected that gold spent today is worth less than the same amount of gold in the future. And if prices fall in terms of gold, no interest is needed. You simply want your gold returned.
Interest gives insight to the inherent value. Remember that...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:34 - ID#398105)
Farfel........for all those slow learners out there...............

How is Pegasus going ?

I hear that Chapter 7 is on the horizon !

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:35 - ID#270235)
RSA political risk.
RSA in my opinion is less politically risky than Canada. Canada is run
by socialists, the currency is on the brink of collapse and the
country will likely split in two or worse.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:46 - ID#228128)
Income numbers
I heard on the news tonight that U.S. income was up 0.6 % last month. That comes to 7.2% on a yearly basis by my calculations. Sounds inflationary to me. Is this a blip on the screen or is more to come? I vote for more of the above.

Princeton Economics forecast for Monday is bullish again for the PMs. Gold is Very bullish on a daily basis, weekly is also bullish but I forget the adjective, and monthly is Breakout Mode. Their forecast for the general U.S. stock market which has been very bullish of late has turned mixed. Overall bearish for most indices with the exeption of the NASDAQ

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:48 - ID#286234)
Have fun on your trip. I don't know about the EURO, just don't take no wooden nickels.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:48 - ID#348129)
@AU: Reuters Comments
March 27, 1998

Gold at 6-week high, oil lower before OPEC

NEW YORK ( Reuters ) - Gold closed at the highest level in six weeks Friday as optimism grew that European central bank sales of bullion were slowing and the metal may be regaining some of its glitter as an investment.
 In other markets, oil prices ended lower ahead of a meeting by oil producers who are trying to agree to cut back supplies feeding the current world oil glut. Soybeans ended lower as the red-hot soyoil market fell sharply when speculators cashed in profits.
 At the COMEX, gold for June delivery closed $1.30 higher at $305.00 an ounce, the fifth straight day of gains. The day's peak of $306.80 was the highest price since February 5.
 The Philadelphia Stock Exchange's index of North American gold and silver mining stocks hit a high Friday of 84.20, compared to January's 12-year low at 61.23.
 "Gold mining equities have broken out to the upside with the sector index at its highest level since last November," said Refco analyst James Steel.
 But analysts remain focused on the role gold will play in the reserves of the planned European Central Bank when the new body is formed in May.
 The bank, part of the European economic and monetary union planned for next year, is expected to hold anywhere from 5 to 30 percent of its reserves in gold. European bank selling of perceived excess reserves in the past year drove prices to 18-year lows around $281 an ounce by December.
 But in an encouraging note for traders Friday, the Belgian government said that, following a recent 299-ton gold sale by the National Bank of Belgium, it would scrap a plan to cut its gold holdings further by minting commemorative coins.
 May silver at COMEX closed 4.3 cents lower at $6.320 an ounce as speculators sold even in the face of continued strong demand for the physical metal.
 On Thursday, COMEX warehouse silver stocks fell a further 637,840 ounces to 88,631,442 ounces, a new 12-year low, even though deliveries to fill the 129.7 million ounce purchase by U.S. billionaire Warren Buffett are believed to be completed.
 Buffett announced his stake in early February, driving prices to nine-year highs at $7.50 an ounce.
 At the New York Mercantile Exchange, oil prices closed lower ahead of an emergency meeting of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries in Vienna on Monday to ratify a plan to cut back up to two million barrels of oil supplies a day.
 News of the pact thrashed out in Saudi Arabia last weekend pushed oil prices off nine-year lows this week, but traders still harbor strong doubts that the deal will succeed.
 "The market will want proof of their good behavior," said Russ Hill, senior trader at Austrian oil firm OMV in London.
 Crude oil for May delivery closed seven cents lower at $16.76 a barrel, April gasoline 0.24 cent a gallon lower at 53.58 cents and April heating oil 0.28 cent a gallon lower at 45.45 cents.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 19:53 - ID#42365)
Gianna: Buffet bonds silva

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:00 - ID#398105)
Carl........Native Title

Native Title, in its basic form is the right for Indigenous persons to claim unhindered access to land to persue their traditional life style.

Any Aboriginal or part ( 10% ) Aborigibal person can make a Native Title Claim WITHOUT any "tru and honest" verification or validation of the claim. Essentially, it is Land Rights.

As applied to mineral exploration, in Australia there are three forms of tenements:

1. Mining lease

2. Prospecting lease

3. Exploration lease

Five years ago it was possible to convert from an Exploration lease to a Mining lease, and start mining, within a 6 to 12 month period.

TODAY, it is exceptionally difficult to convert to a Mining Lease. I would suggest that less than 20 have been granted in Western Australia in the last year - if that ?!

The reason for this is that one MUST negotiate with any given Aboriginal Group for the right to access the land. There

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:01 - ID#228283) is fun!!

Aurator..Glad to see your post.!!

RANGY...1 13/32 up 5/32 that's 12% in a day!!! on 289,000 shares.

Dines has a few good lines

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:03 - ID#285121)
Possible rate hike Tuesday ?
Historically crashes have happened after two rate hikes. Will Tuesday be the second ?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:03 - ID#347457)
Some number on how big will be the cost of Y2K disruption in financial market
The Year 2000 rollover could cause major operational failures for the

foreign exchange marketplace, according to a recent report from the

Computer Science Corporation ( CSC ) . Single day disruption costs could

reach into the hundreds of millions of dollars. "Sustaining Stable

Financial Markets through the Millennium" looks at the potential of Y2K

noncompliance problems to trigger systemic impacts. The research

examines the possible effects of failure at a major foreign exchange

player, a group of smaller institutions and a clearinghouse.

CSC based its findings on interviews with 90 representatives of

financial institutions, regulatory bodies, associations and

clearinghouses. In addition, company researchers examined the nature

and volume of foreign exchange transactions, past failure rates, and

failure rate changes as the result of three potential Year 2000


The CSC report identifies Y2K-noncompliance cost and risk categories.

"Cautious trading," for instance, involves lost profits as a result of

trading slowdowns or trading limited to only those institutions

considered compliant. "Non-compliant transaction costs" will mount for

firms that can't satisfy their obligations. "Backoffice bottlenecks"

will cut throughput, increase operating costs and cause interest


The tab for a big bank on a single day could reach upwards of $660

million and $3.3 billion in a 5-day period, according to the study. Big

numbers to be sure. "Associated costs of a Year 2000 operational

disruption could be many times greater than the direct costs of the

failure itself," the report notes. "...bottlenecks caused by Year 2000

non-compliance could cause settlement failure rates to jump from the

current 1 percent to as high as 5 percent-a 400-percent increase."

Clearinghouse problems could pose the most expensive risks, with high

end costs projected at more than $1 billion per day or $5.2 billion over

five days.

If settlement failures begin to ripple outward on a large scale, the

study's respondents warn the system may be stressed to the breaking

point, "causing significant liquidity or credit problems and threatening

the stability of the market."

If multiple institutions hit the Y2K wall, that could severely test the

ability or willingness of central banks to offer bail outs. The ability

of contingency plans to cope with such a circumstance are unclear, the

report notes, and the heavy demands placed on central banks by such a

contingency could lead to a liquidity crisis. "If the central bank's

funds are tied up or unable to be distributed, the system may experience


The report notes that the current level of Y2K preparedness makes the

failure of a clearinghouse, major foreign exchange player or group of

small institutions "a real possibility," and that there is no way to

assure that adequate prevention measures will be in place in time. "It

appears unlikely that industry-wide risk control initiatives will have

the critical mass or acceptance within the next 2 years to mitigate the

systemic impact of Year 2000 non-compliance."

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:06 - ID#401237)

Don't tell me Chapter 7 - they can't do that after they filed Chapter 11 -------- Could they?

MAN! I bought another 1000 shares the other day 40 cents, such a deal huh. And I was feeling so good, you really know how to ruin a person's weekend.

HighRise [:- ) +

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:07 - ID#300202)
@Canada Doom & Gloom
Canada had only slight risk of breaking up with previous non votes. Now
with pending new Liberal Provincial Gov't a la Jean Charest- Non Chance.
Wish to stop dissemination of misinformation. A lot in the mainstream
press which amounts to huffing & puffing. Socialists???????

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:10 - ID#208393)
The Privateer - Reliable newsletter?

The gold bottom forecasts at The Privateer site have
been right on the money. Has the newsletter from this
author been reasonably accurate in the past?

Thanks in advance.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:11 - ID#401237)

The Fed Tuesday and OPEC Monday.

tick...tick....tick ........K A............B O O M !!!!!!


9 billion came into the market this last week and the DOW was down 3 days in a row, first time since January - lost over 100 pts this week.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:14 - ID#341189)
Thanks for the education on Native Title. Sounds like it must throw a bit of a wrench in things.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:15 - ID#285121)
Question High Rise
Where will the Japanese go with their money next month ? The big question.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:17 - ID#31868)
HighRise - Don't forget April 1, good grief
what a day for the Japanese "Big Bang." Talk about timing.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:26 - ID#190411)
vronsky:who are you?
I am 100% in golds with my I.R.A. since 12/97. I am a believer, but, I cannot find any info on S.A. golds other than your postings.I figured that your bits of info. would raise the ones that you touted, so, I told my broker to get me info on RANGY and DROOY. Of course he ignored me, as when he did't buy ABX@15.125. I see RANGY is up 50% this week.What does anyone know about Western Deep? You are right that there is essentially no new info on these.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:26 - ID#342282)
Polarbear, Disney and Myrmidon
My damn email flipped out. Yall got me all up on SA GM's and now I can't find a broker. Local yokels are scared. Please post a good ( lo cost ) URL or name and phone #.
Myrmidon, please call and give me your phone. I'll call you right back. Thanx everybody, I don't have to wait for Y2K-- it's on me now, Charlie

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:27 - ID#26793)
Japanese banks remain in critical condition & currency news

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:29 - ID#31868)
Do you know anyone who gets the Gold Newsletter from Jimmy Blanchard? They did at least two issues devoted to RSA golds.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:32 - ID#238295)
KITCAT: I consider The Privateer to be the best gold-related newsletter on the net Captain Bill knows his stuff.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:35 - ID#257136)
Prometheus: As to your gender or lack of same: I was merely remembering the response you made to the
West Centraal Arkansas scenery and our fine li'l community. You saw it by following this ( or another such ) url.
If you'll think back on the matter, you will recall the response included a gender mention.
Oh Well!!
For the benefit of the curious, here's the link to the b u tee ful scenery in arkysaw!
I only brought it up 'cause I try really hard to be correct! Not politically so, but to satisfy my EGO! ( :+^} ) [

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:37 - ID#398105)

The Administrators appointed to Pegasus Gold Australia Pty Ltd have, as of ten days ago, become very itchy. Something has happened that they will not discuss with Creditors, and I am a Creditor.

Given the potential default of US$ 353 million, it will require a miracle for Pegasus Inc to survive. Time will tell.

If you are a share holder of Pegasus Inc, you had better check the current situation out.

Anyone want to but Mount Todd - 10 cents in the Dollar ?????


(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:42 - ID#342282)
Haggis re Native title
You mean, if I can get in with the bush crowd, I could help them with prospecting and maybe get a piece for me? Serious. I like what I know about the bush and inhabitants, Charlie

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:42 - ID#401237)

Japan where will their money go?
1 ) Asia
2 ) Europe
3 ) Africa
4 ) Japan
5 ) Gold
6 ) Mid East Oil
7 ) Las Vegas

Heck I don't know, maybe McArthur is still alive and they have to keep buying US Treasuries in exchange for protection - just like the Untouchables.



(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:43 - ID#339212)
April 1st will be the day..

..when Japanese start buying gold stocks.

Vronsky and J. Disney: To make your point on SA stocks, besides reserves please post some comparative production costs. Many on this site will like to know.

Chas: Don't have your number at home but at the office. Post your number and I will call you.

@ ALL: I used to believe only in N. American stocks. Some diversity is needed. Sooner or later, after a good run of the NA golds, the SA will follow.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:45 - ID#26793)
Greenspan speech on Thursday

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:46 - ID#401237)
Great Song

"Did I shave my legs for this"
Deana Carter


(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:50 - ID#251166)
@ Highrise
Then Little Caesar's, yes?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:52 - ID#342282)
Silverbaron re Dinar
Have you got details on this-- Weight, purity and price + sh. I followed several URL's and all details not there. If you have them, BILLD is interested, Thanx

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:53 - ID#401237)

Now is that the truth or another April fool thing?

Thanks for the info, I knew it was a risky bet; but, I have seen many a company come out of Chapter 11 and do well. I felt with the improvment in the price of Gold they may come alive.

Do the have anything in the ground of value? Usually a company has to have a positive net to file Chapter 11.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:54 - ID#288295)
Illigitimi non carborundum. ( I hope that is correct form ) ....nice to see your 'bout a lawyer joke to bring some cheer - what do you have when you you've got a lawyer up to his neck in sand? .....................N O T E N O U G H S A N D.......Oh, yeah - er - Go Gold!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 20:59 - ID#317193)
Comon folk -RSA mines shutdowns?
I posted earlier a request for anyone to tell me when the last time mines in South Africa were closed because of political strife. Somebody has to have the answer-yous guys are all real bright-brighter than old me. Ok, Ok, I just haven't found the answer and I'm lazy. Horse is gone already but still curious. Save me, help me, one more brewski. Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:00 - ID#411149)
How bout them Lady Techsters, jest put it on NC State big time!
LA Tech Ladies, National champs here we come.

Tally Ho

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:01 - ID#342282)
Myrmidon re phone
That was quick. # is 704 433 6473, Thanx

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:01 - ID#317193)
Silverbaron-some sober lawyer might take offense
Not me. Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:02 - ID#31868)
Dinar is served
The Dirham
3.00g of sterling silver ( 92.5% of pure silver )

The Dinar
4.25g of 22 carat gold ( the other metals are 1 carat each of copper and silver )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:04 - ID#426220)

REF: Myrmidon ( April 1st will be the day.. ) ID#339212:

Please refer to:

Date: Fri Mar 27 1998 20:26
ERLE ( vronsky:who are you? ) ID#190411:
I am 100% in golds with my I.R.A. since 12/97. I am a believer, but, I cannot find any
info on S.A. golds other than your postings.I figured that your bits of info. would raise
the ones that you touted, so, I told my broker to get me info on RANGY and
DROOY. Of course he ignored me, as when he did't buy ABX@15.125. I see
RANGY is up 50% this week.What does anyone know about Western Deep? You
are right that there is essentially no new info on these.

It tells its own story - and it is only beginning...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:06 - ID#411149)
TYoung-NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER ..........................

Tally Ho

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:09 - ID#288295)
chas & BillD
I have requested the price and terms of purchase, but have not yet received any response. The information from the Islamic Mint web site is as follows:...Dinar - 22 kt gold, 4.25 grams, 23 mm diameter.....Dirham - 0.925 ( Sterling ) silver, 3.00 grams, 25 mm diameter.....Khamsa - 0.925 silver, 15.00 grams, 27 mm diameter

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:10 - ID#317193)
What a SURPRISE- to some folk. Where is Disney when you need him! Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:12 - ID#288295)

All in fun, I hope.....but I am at your mercy if you have an engineer joke.....

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:21 - ID#288295)

With the possible exception of Homestake, DROOY is the oldest coninuously-operating gold mine in the world - over 100 years.... ( ;^ ) )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:21 - ID#317193)
Wife says I can't tell jokes, even in cyberspace. Unfortunately, she is correct, as usual. Tuesday is going to be interesting, one way or the Another. he,he. Tom

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:24 - ID#317193)
make that Wednesday--or a-Thursday

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:24 - ID#288295)

coninuously=continuously ( and I'm not even drinking )

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:31 - ID#288295)

Just the two of us.........

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:33 - ID#31868)
I was just rooting around the web for some info on DROOY and guess who one of the first resident experts turned out to be - you. Remember when, actually you gave a right on the money definition of the company.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:34 - ID#257136)
John Disney
John Disney: I am the only person of my acquaintance who posts on Kitco.
I know several in the immediate vicinity who buy gold and silver.
I know of hordes of others who have food supplies.
As to any who have weapon or ammo caches, I can't say and wouldn't if
I could.
Of course, there is no real need for any decent citizen to have
any of the things I have mentioned, is there?
The word citizen here in the U.S. is fast becoming synonymous with the two
As to duelin' banjos, I wish ol' b.j. would take a trip down the
deliverance river.
Gotta hunch one of the Bowmen from somewhere would be
able to straighten him out!
As to P.M. stocks, I have some and a little oil too! Shame on me, eh?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:34 - ID#288295)

Do yo have the data to create a long-term chart showing the XAU/Johannesburg Gold Index ratio? ( Or its inverse ) I'm thinking this would be a graphical way to show the outperformance of SA gold stocks......yes?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:37 - ID#286279)
Four men rode in a car: a mechanical engineer, an electrical engineer, a chemical engineer, and a computer engineer. The car stalled.

The mechanical engineer said, "It must be the pistons; let's repair them
and be on our way."

The electrical engineer said, "It has to be the spark plugs; we'll
replace them and be ready to roll in no time at all."

The chemical engineer said. "No, it's got to be bad fuel; we'll flush
the system and be on our way."

They turned to the computer engineer. "What do you think we should do?"
they asked.

The computer engineer shrugged and said, "Let's get out of the car,
close the doors, then get back in and try restarting it."

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:38 - ID#286279)
Forgot to turn the copyright thingy off.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:42 - ID#288295)
I haven't run into any earlier posts than mine on DROOY, but claim no special information - I saw the inherent value in the company after the article appeared in GNL and have been pumping it to anyone who'll listen ever since......unfortunately ( for them ) not many takers. What do you think about Western Deep? The chart in vronsky's ( et al ) article make it look pretty darn good if gold takes off.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:43 - ID#426220)

Date: Fri Mar 27 1998 21:34
Silverbaron ( vronsky ) ID#288295:

XAU data only goes back as far as about 1987. Anyone who say he has data about RSA gold stocks in the 1930s is a blatant liar!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:47 - ID#339212)
DROOY: some info and chart

like the looks of it!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:48 - ID#30116)
CRB / XAU chart.
Looks good to me...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:49 - ID#31868)
SilverBaron - it was from Nov-1997
Regarding the stock you are asking about I am not familiar, I have some info on it, but I lent it to a neighbor, about thirty copies of newsletters and such, when I get them back on Sunday I will rummage through them.

Try just type in the symbol, if you are not happy with the results type in the whole name. Believe me, if there is anything out there this thing will dig it up.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:50 - ID#190411)
Mr. Vronsky
I have been hanging at Kitco for about four months now. I can say that Mr. Bart's is the best for finding out what is going on in the world.
I was so cocksure that I had this whole monetary business figured out. --Simple; buy gold stocks, and watch them appreciate as the Bubble does a slow flatus.
I am beginning to fathom the abyss of my ignorance.
Between the commentary and the references to further materials, I have learned more here than I have in the past ten years about markets, commodities, and money.
I know of your site Mr. Vronsky, but again for the benefit of the novices, could you tell us something about yourself, and why you are qualified to give advice on S. A. stocks.
Also, according to you, Western Deep is the choice, although not mentioned.
Tolerant1 your message noted. Thanks also to prometheus for the poop on the golden chickens.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:50 - ID#30116)
Weekly gold on the charts....

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:51 - ID#426220)

Myrmidon ( DROOY: some info and chart ) ID#339212:

The singificant build-up in volume in the last five months is indicative of a bottom. THE BOTTOM IS IN

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:51 - ID#30116)
Weekly gold on the charts....

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:56 - ID#288295)
Well, post-1987 wouldn't be a bad piece of the puzzle.....BTW - that's a killer article of yours that was published today - congratulations. I faxed it to my broker and he was spellbound by the data. Even if people perceive ( I think wrongly ) a larger risk factor for the SA golds, they would be really foolish if they didn't put at least part of their portfolio there. If not in the individual issues, then some money in the Lexington Strategic Investment Fund ( STIVX ) for a basket-exposure to the area.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:57 - ID#340302)

As a creditor of Pegasus, you would be wise to hope for the company's survival instead of badmouthing it all the time. Otherwise, you end up with half a penny at best...or haven't you figured that out yet? And I thought you were a smart guy?

Don't get too cocky about your earlier call on Pegasus...insider information helps, doesn't it?


(Fri Mar 27 1998 21:58 - ID#426220)

ERLE ( Mr. Vronsky ) ID#190411:

Herr Mozart, what credentials do you have?

"...could you tell us something about yourself, and why you are
qualified to give advice on MUSIC."


(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:00 - ID#426220)
forgive the arrogance...

just listen to the music...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:02 - ID#339212)
Vronsky, good thing when no detailed data is available...

... because one trades on the technical aspect instead of the fundamental. To all chartist, wave theorers, lunar and stellar watches, Ellioters, etc.

all we have here is a chart of DROOY. Our heads ( including yours ) have not yet been polluted with fundamentalities. Run your analysis and advice on what you see on the DROOY chart.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:05 - ID#339212)
@ Farfel re: Haggis

Farfel, if I remember well, Haggis said that he managed the Pegasus office 8 yrs. ago. Unfair to blame him for the demise, besides


(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:11 - ID#426220)

Myrmidon ( Vronsky, good thing when no detailed data is available... )

In keeping with the musical theme and your very enlightening chart, pls notice the Ravel like-Bolero "cresendo" VOLUME build-up which portends a large CLIMAX in PRICE in the not too distant future. We are talking a large per cent price gain from current levels.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:11 - ID#210235)
Hate to get in the middle of an argument, but Haggis was right up front about his experience with Pegasus for a long time. I remember reading his qualifying his opinions.

BTW, your IDCIBM is catching on. Folks who've been away will think we're getting into International Business Machines.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:11 - ID#30116)
South African data starting point.
Try this link for info on S.A. mines.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:13 - ID#288295)

Thanx for the DOGPILE search engine - somone told me of this a couple months ago, but I forgot the name before I tried it - looks awesome.....mostly I use HOTBOT, which is also a terrific engine.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:17 - ID#339212)
@ Vronsky on DROOY

The previous run in the middle of January was strictly technical, because of no movement of bullion. Now, combine the high volume, and the bullion fundamentals, and some shifting from US golds into SA, I see the price at $6 when the rally starts, even if gold stays below $315. The chart looks good because the second leg up will be as violent as the first.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:19 - ID#31868)
SilverBaron it is pretty darn
good. Someone here posted it about four or five months ago and I have been using it daily since that time.

Well, have a good evening and remember Go Kentucky!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:20 - ID#22956)
JohnD - Thank you for your commentary regarding SA. I printed it and will digest what you have said as time goes by. A tricky political & cultural climate over there, yes. You are a fine emissary. I am sure you will keep us appraised of current events....uh huh.

Haggis - I would like ONE bit of commentary from you regarding SA mines and what John Disney has said about them..... ( #9 ) in his statements regarding SA. DO RSA mines have more gold than ANYWHERE the world?? I respect JohnD's opine but would like to get some commentary from you, for I respect ANYONE whose life it is to study the formation of this here know, GOLD.

I have been studying my choices of mining stocks to purchase since I have been at Kitco ( close to one year ) and I will be making my FIRST Mining Purchase EVER ( soon? ) . It will be good, I Know It.....uh huh. Your answer will not be a clincher but more of a nudge. So, let me have it PLEASE. You ole scotty-boy......... ( gulp ) .....a fine belt of single malt to ya'. Well, I like it. get ANOTHER glass.... ( gulp ) ...... ( burp ) .

Bully Beef
(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:20 - ID#259282)
What is an engineers favorite form of birth control...?
His /Her personality.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:23 - ID#190411)
Herr Vronsky
I am not being impertinent. I am merely exercising due diligence this time. After all, I have RYO.

Bully Beef
(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:23 - ID#259282)
What are the first words an Arts Graduate says to an Engineering Graduate?
Will you have fries with your burger sir?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:24 - ID#267276)
anglo american
Does anyone have any thoughts on anglo american ( angly ) , buy?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:26 - ID#288295)
tolerant1 @ DOGPILE

Since you know how to use this search engine to its full advantages, how 'bout trying a DOGPILE search for Maria ( Gina Lollobrigida Daffy Duck lips ) Bartiromo and see what comes up... ( ;^ ) ) er - Go Gold! yuk yuk

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:27 - ID#426220)

Myrmidon ( @ Vronsky on DROOY ) ID#339212

Your estimate appears feasible within a reasonable time period.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:30 - ID#411112)
All the boys are here...Friday nite at Kitco...vronsky,silverbaron etc. we are a sad bunch...but we

will rule the world,why,BECAUSE WE OWN THE GOLD........something I heard on Rush's show today that has stuck with me all day,so a question to the US "the less you are dependant on the Government the more pissed off you are with the current system".....

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:32 - ID#426220)
RYO... my deepest sympathy

ERLE ( Herr Vronsky ) ID#190411:

Amigo, the best advise you might give RYO management is that they use their limited financial resources to snap up CHEAP South African gold reserves... it would be the Canadian mining coup of the century. That may the only way RYO may save its corporate existance.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:33 - ID#340302)
Haggis has something personal against Pegasus...some weird kind of over-the-top hatred of the company.

There must have been an unpleasant parting of the ways....maybe they canned him for wearing a kilt to work...or stealing scotch from the company's executive bar.

In any case, why would any creditor of such a company sit around hoping ( praying ) for its liquidation? So he can get pennies on the dollar for debt owed him? It doesn't make any sense. If the company owed me money, I would wish it the best, knowing that if it prospers, it increases the likelihood I will be repaid.

Conversely, if I am mentally deficient, I would wish them the worst so that they will pay me a shiny red penny for each dollar I'm owed.

You follow?


(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:36 - ID#339212)
@ robnoel

The 65 and older group ( about 14% of the population ) have no other option but to depend to the government because of MEDICARE, MEDICAID. The others who work depend primarily on their employers. Most depend on somebody,

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:37 - ID#284255)
Swing chart updated
Possible point for a solid down move current.
If the next few days are down look for further weakness.

Dow/Gold chart

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:38 - ID#316232)
There are several reasons that SA stocks have cratered. One is the depreciation in the rand, which is dependent upon the price of gold in the long term. If gold sustains a climb back above 350, the rand will get better, and all SA stocks, evaluated in rands, will look even better in dollars.

As much as I like DROOY, it is the only gold investment I have which hasn't gone up this week. All my funds look great, and BMG has jumped like a jackrabbit, but good ol' Durban just sits there. I'm ready for it to launch. Meanwhile, I love this market.

One way to play SA is with ASA on the NYSE. Puts and calls are available somewhere.

I also was able to find XAU going back to at least 1985. In addition, Van Eck International Investors, INIVX, a predominately SA investment fund, was started in 1955. US Global Gold Shares, USERX, was begun in 1969. Lexington Strategic Investors, STIVX, in 1974. Most of the early gold funds invested in SA. Now they're in North America and Australia, too. There's a lot of opportunity out there if you want a gold fund.

Gold fund info available at

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:42 - ID#340302)
...and fewer gold charts.

By the way, if you think your chart is pointing down, just turn it upside step back and take a look at it!

Lo and's pointing up now!! Maybe a slight chance the gold bull will continue???


(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:46 - ID#316232)
SA stocks
For SA ADR's traded in US, including DROOY.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:47 - ID#339212)
@ Larryn on gold stock performance

Some gold stock investors have a common problem, this being that they want all their stocks to move in sync with eachother. If one underperforms they interpret it as stock weakness.

I have a different view: I hope that they don't move in sync. Then I can sell those who have moved, take the profits and the principal and buy the ones which have not performed yet. What a good way to maximize profits by rotating from the fast movers to the slow ones!!!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:48 - ID#411112)
silverbaron....dogpile rules you can trash the rest.....for a really cool site for free stuff

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:52 - ID#30116)
More S.A. links. links you to quarterly reports for Western Deep and others.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:53 - ID#340302)
F*'S SOMBER ANALYSIS OF GOLD ACTION TODAY...'s difficult to get very excited about it. A mere dollar up today and all my goldbug friends still worried it will drop to 250 by the end of April. Of course, all the technical guys ( aka gold shorts ) are running around PROMISING weakness for the metals in the upcoming week.

Unfortunately, most goldbugs subscribe to this voodoo gibberish and unless some dramatic left-field event occurs, then gold will probably move into the dumpster again this coming week.


(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:55 - ID#266105)

Nice site on the SA adrs, all there at a glance. They
really liquified today from past observance.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:56 - ID#339212)
@ Farfel on losing money

This is one of the few times in my life when losing 50% on an investment ( RYO ) made me feel ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL. I got rid of all of it and I plan of having one of my best sleeps tonight. I thank you for helping me decide by presenting the facts last night.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:57 - ID#266105)
@This is your wallet. This is your wallet on dopes.

Oh, forgot.

I DON'T CARE. I'M BUYING MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:58 - ID#340302)
@MYRMIDON...ONE OF THE SWEETEST GENTLEMEN ON THIS FORUM... deserve a good night's sleep.

Good luck on the next one! You know there's a winner headed your way!


(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:59 - ID#190411)
as usual y'all come through with the info

(Fri Mar 27 1998 22:59 - ID#426220)
after a hard, but profitable week...

Hope you enjoy one of my favorites:

"It is not the critic who counts, nor the man who points out how the strong man stumbles of where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes up short again and again; who knows great enthusiasms, the devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly so that his place will never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither defeat nor victory."

- Theodore Roosevelt

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:00 - ID#411112)
myrmidon....don't get me wrong...the folks of my parents generation

in some case's fought two wars,depression,were given a contract/promise by there Government....we will take care of you....I don't have a problem with that.....all I'am saying is the less dependant you are on government the greater the freedom .....ultimately the more dependant you are on government the less freedom you's the price you pay

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:10 - ID#30116)
farfel, robnoel
T.A. does work if you know how to apply it and when to apply it. As for gold going to ZERO, I doubt that very much. Who were those people talking about $7/Bbl. oil a week or two ago???? Cannot the same be said for gold? How about the PGMs? I did not see any comments on the news link that I posted for SWC. I guess no one is interested...

Did anyone look at the weekly gold and CRB/XAU charts that I posted earlier this evening? The latter chart is very informative.

Robnoel -- I called a guy a socialist today for his views that he expressed to me. His response? He agreed. Thinks $3 to $4 a gallon gas is good for us because it cost that much elsewhere. Also says that guns are bad, need to be banned. I asked if he ever heard of the former Soviet Block.... I was labeled one of those right wing loonies ( sorry Canadians ) who are trying to bring down BUBBA.. :- ) ) What a compliment!

Good night all...

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:12 - ID#411112)
vronsky....know it's just that the defeat really sucks...once again say after me

Please God give me one more Gold run,and this time I won't blow it

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:20 - ID#257136)
All: I must become a flagellante briefly! While congratulating ol' self it
on the proce I received for some IGL ( freeport McM ) earlier today, it dawned on me that my ego had gotten ahead of itself in the matter of the Titan prometheus.
In my own addlepated way, I misconstrued a post and really only half remembered it.
Prometheus-accept my apologies for making an ass of myself and confusing others re: you and your gender.
Arkansaas is indeed a sad place tonite. Three more funerals maana.
Saw a special on abc re: another kid who had killed-it was his mother. The boy admitted to having used drugs, even tho he was a squeaky clean athlete and scholar.¿ Que Paso? ¿Quien sabe?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:23 - ID#266105)
@beware the bandersnag

Thinks $3 to $4 a gallon gas is good for us because it cost that

One needs to consider forex with these gas price comparison
arguments bandied about. 300 yen to the dollar, triple the
yen and double the marks. I usually find a glazing of the
eyes when countering this argument encountered.

I know you weren't advocating $3-4 dollar gas, its
just a peeve with politicians, elected and unelected
knowing the words sans meanings.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:25 - ID#339212)
@ panda and all
Cost of living in the UK:

A 1.75 ltr. of Brandy in the UK costs $50 dollars, vs. $15 in the US.

A box of King Edwards ( junk cigars ) in the UK costs $80 dollars vs.$9 in the US.

A pack of cigarettes in the UK costs $5 dollars vs, $2.20 in the US.

Get now this: When I was in the UK last year talking to some friends they all agreed that the UK is a very good place to live! Go and figure out.

panda: Your friend needs some Kitco education!

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:26 - ID#340302)
...a result of 20 years of dismal progress in the yellow metal.

Ergo, if gold falls below 300 again for even so much as a week, then I predict its next move will be toward the toilet.

I do not believe goldbugs will endure another drop below 300...there will be tremendous capitulation and probably a rapid move toward the low 200 level.

THE DOWNSIDE...lots of goldbugs losing lots of money.

THE UPSIDE...lack of interest in gold investment will result in goldbug technicians preaching to an empty house. They will be compelled to learn new job skills in order to survive.

Psychological analysis provided by....


(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:30 - ID#339212)
@ Farfel

The BIS will buy all the gold to support a $280 price - ANOTHER

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:37 - ID#22650)
It feels like there is change in the wind...or maybe it is just
spring. I think we are getting ready for part 2 of the Asian fallout, Western edition. Whenever there is change, wealth changes hands, and I hope that the posters here all come out winners.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:40 - ID#190411)

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:43 - ID#340302)
What does it mean??

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:44 - ID#373403)
What ever happened to his speech?

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:45 - ID#340302)


(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:47 - ID#373403)
Will you go on record as owning no gold or gold stocks? I want to laugh at you publicly when gold breaks out.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:49 - ID#190411)
It might not be here today, or tomorrow. But I see here that some of the uninformed hoi-polloi are buying coin. I did, based on the only mantra that stirs the goldbug.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:51 - ID#266105)
@big bang

Myrmidon ( April 1st will be the day.. ) ID#339212:

..when Japanese start buying gold stocks.


Perhaps, but for no known reason. Big Bang in
London was an event, in Japan, to be a long process
continuing for years.

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:51 - ID#267298)
Central Bank sales
Can anyone tell me which countries Central Bank's have sold
considerable amounts of Gold during the past five years or so??


(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:51 - ID#340302)

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:52 - ID#340302)

(Fri Mar 27 1998 23:59 - ID#227290)
farfel and $300

I hope two things: ( 1 ) gold doesn't fall below $300 again, ( 2 ) that you are wrong about $280 if it does.

One of the things I find most constructive right now is we are all so paranoid because of the past two years, that a $3 decline in the gold price gives us the shakes. This is real good for the market. Gold is now climbing a wall of worry.

I'd be willing to bet there will be some down days next week. Our faith in gold will be challenged at some point. There will be massive emotional swings on the ride up. But there are bigger players than gold bugs like us who will carry this market and us too. We just have to hold on for the ride.

I was at the New York Gold Show in May 1996. You've never seen such a mad house. People were asking for Bob Bishop's autograph. The exploration gold stocks were going crazy. Stocks were moving from $1.50 to $15.00 with regularity. Valerie Gold moved above $28. It's now $1.10 and has just as many assets now as it did then.

It was a mania that I've never witnessed before. Ordinary laborers had made 20 times their money on Diamondfields and were now experts in the gold stock market.

But it was the end. Most stocks in that sector have fallen 80-90% since then. And the sentiment now is exactly the opposite.

At the first sight of trouble, the temptation is to sell early and often. IT's HERE!!! Make no mistake about it. We won't see $280 again. We'll see $380 first.

The Preacher