Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Fri May 01 1998 00:00 - ID#288156)
Silver Plate--"Somebody please attack this silly thought."
Before you can sell, you have to have "eligible"...{:- )

(Fri May 01 1998 00:00 - ID#252127)

If China goes through with her contemplated new
infrastructure plan, large amounts of copper, zinc and
nickel will be required for its completion, add to that
the proposed Japanese Public Works intiatives and the
base metals seem in much better shape than the
jawboned negatives bandied by the obedient
Zinc was hit hard by Chinese dumpings and I wonder how
China is fixed for the zinc metal now.
Add India and Gold, then one wonders why the BIS is
opening a Hong Kong office.

(Fri May 01 1998 00:02 - ID#57232)
Oldman -- Are you out there?
sharefin: Guess your avid chatter did not include Oldman. I am no expert on pings, but I would guess that the market vulnerability will drop off fairly quickly with time. I guess we could have one of those 'bull traps' but I think the strong computer stock rally -- the market flagships -- will prevent a bull trap this time. Without any other news about the market, I will hang on to my sp500 call options.

I am more worried about the gold equities, as it is not clear to me why gold went down today -- our gold bug rally seems to be hovering in and out of 'critical' -- for now anyway. Can't wait for the Frank Veneroso predictions to kick in.

By the way, I did find out that Saddam is 'conferring with his advisors' about how to respond to the UN resolution not to remove sanctions. He is apparently awaiting some response to the UN monitoring of his 'weapons' sites. It is possible BC might find an excuse to start something fairly soom -- but I think he will not do anything unless Saddam makes a pretty definite first move, so that BC can step in and look good. The next month or so is probably critical, given the xxx gate grand jury windup coming soon.

Haven't seen the newer, gentler otherwise remade Newt Gingrich so anti-Clinton in months. Perhaps K Starr has some real ammunition. Would make sense for Saddam to naively think he could make some sort of confrontational move if BC was in serious trouble.

(Fri May 01 1998 00:06 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Gunga Din -- Sorry, can't help you out on that. Last I heard was that they move 'together' which they did not do today. Perhaps that is a prelude to the 'equities', or, perhaps not. Given the past several years, I, personally, would not give the concept the time of day. BUT, the general change of trend in gold to the upside IS alluring, even with a pseudo ( or not ) resilient upward stock movement. I would not bet too much against gold at this level. I also would not bet much against the stock markets yet. I'll try to let you more by Tuesday. I think much will begin to be written then. Seems to be an important day in a number of areas. I.E., what is low then will change directions, and what is going up then will change directions. Perhaps gold will hit some low then and be ripe for a buy. Let us hope. Else, if it turns up now into Tuesday, I think it'll be a sell for awhile. I might add that this general assessment seems to fit a number of markets at this time. Just seems that either the fundamentals are good but the timing is bad or the timing is good and the fundamentals are extremely bad at this particular transitionary time. As usual, all caveats apply in my current assessments. AND, THESE are my current, though always 'being modified' assessments. I hope some other 'personages' might lend some more of their own thoughts to the subject at hand in short order. LET that be an invitation for them to put their own 'handwriting' on the wall!

(Fri May 01 1998 00:06 - ID#26669)
zeke you should have seen the gold chain
It was beautiful! The links were of gold, extruded or otherwise made into a cruciform cross section, unsoldered so they could be removed one by one and weighing perhaps 1/2 to 3/4 ounce apiece. IMHO

I would suppose if a person wanted to be picky about whether such things were real they could take a sample from inside the suspect piece and run a mass spectroscopy and scintillation count on it. The first test would tell them where it was mined and the second whether it had been cast pre or post radioactive fallout contamination. IMHO

(Fri May 01 1998 00:12 - ID#57232)
Gold , equities market divergence
GungaDin: I think that was Oldman that said what you are referring to. He said he was long gold. He also said that he thought gold and the markets would go up together. I think what he means by the divergence is that the markets would peak and gold would continue to go up for a bit -- and that is the time to sell all equities! You might want to look at the 1987 crash pattern.

My impression is that gold/gold equities have only just begun to rally, so it still very early in the pattern the Oldman predicts. I am more worried that our gold rally might go back into hibernation.

(Fri May 01 1998 00:14 - ID#287193)
223...learning something new on Kitco........
every hour.

Question: After Gold .9999 has been melted many times how does one find out were it was mined? Do I understand this right?


(Fri May 01 1998 00:15 - ID#238422)
A.Goose\Statement from the Kremlin
We love this stuff too...Let us make some money and keep
palladium for Mother Russia, before we sell it again...

(Fri May 01 1998 00:17 - ID#307271)
223 Chain
My goodness, how many links were in this New World Money Belt?

Who in the ( new ) world would wear such a money belt? Of course nobody would try to counterfeit such a large piece...would they? Any potential buyer would surely run at least scintillation tests and microscopy to determine its authenticity. The one you saw must have been a cast copy just for the Fisher Museum. I was there maybe twice, but I don't remember this piece.

(Fri May 01 1998 00:18 - ID#26669)
I forgot that Kitco is an eclectic community with persons of many walks of life and interests. :^ )

(Fri May 01 1998 00:19 - ID#210235)
Thank you for sending us on a really worthwhile word chase with your last link. The article you linked was there, of course. But so many other good reads linked to that one! Just takes the breath away, it does.

About a month ago the, headlines were screaming that the White House would fight fire with fire, to use any scandals they could uncover to attack anyone in congress who dared to begin impeachment proceedings against BJ. And that they had a private investigator. And I think to myself, "Why bother to hire a private investigator when they had all those purloined FBI files of their political opponents already?" Of course, it is all a cover operation, to enable them to use what they've learned. Doesn't remind me of anything I learned in civics class. Did they cover this in the much more sophisticated NY?

(Fri May 01 1998 00:21 - ID#173274)
@the scene
JTF -- I'll be DAMNED surprised if this gold move goes back into 'hibernation'! My only question is what the number will be for its very near term low. 'TIS the day I buy more physical, should I be able to spot it, and even if I don't!

(Fri May 01 1998 00:21 - ID#288156)
A. Goose--here you go...
1 ) When viewed in its global money guise, it is apparent why fiat political monetary powers eschew gold. Gold functions as a governor on the fiat/debt monetary engine; gold fiat currency is an economic oxymoron.

The truth of this statement is evident when one visits gold standards through time to learn what brought them down. From the Roman Empire, the Latin Monetary Union, to Nixons United States, it was, has been and is, the imperative of deficit spending-- in most historical instances, to prosecute whatever war was at hand.

In our time, to prosecute a global war is tantamount to destroying the globe.
The rules of political aggrandizement have changed. To contain the political thieves, that part of the world content to use Honest Money and guile, will use more subtle tools to power. Gold is such a tool.

The paradoxical nature of this Power Paradigm pleases those by whom it was crafted; it is a Cosmic Joke. And he who laughs last, laughs best.

( 2 ) In speaking of China under Emperor Tang, one commentator remarked, When King Alfred was burning his cakes in a mud hut, Chinas Tang dynasty was at his cultural height. One need only view the tomb murals from this period to realize some small portion of the cultural gulf that exists between the West and China. On the wall behind the working desk of the Tang Emperor were emblazoned, in gold, the words: Balanced; Upright; Benevolent; Harmonious. Nothing--NOTHING--that has happened to or in China since that time, has weakened their cultural yearning for Harmony. Stability is a prima goal because it is a prelude to harmony.

This places the Chinese mind-set on a very different axis from the West. Golds discipline, an anathema to the west, becomes a reigning virtue to the Chinese;
gold demands measured growth; gold encourages balance; gold sponsors stability; gold cements power.

It is interesting that one of Chinas first international commercial efforts was the issuance of a gold coin, the much admired Panda. In retrospect, it is possible to track their carefully crafted program; that their timetable was pushed forward by the excesses of the West is something with which the West will now be compelled to deal.

( 3 ) With the majestic irony in which history seems to specialize, two other blocks find themselves with similar goals: the nation of Islam despises the fiat/debt/fractional reserve banking system of the west, which it views as a kind of legal theft; and, Japan, after many years of accommodating its friends finds being the worlds biggest creditor akin to serfdom.

So, at this moment in time, for varied reasons, the bulk of the worlds population--who control the bulk of the worlds oil resources, a comfortable percentage of the worlds industrial production resources, and the second largest economy-- find themselves with a common goal, a common tormentor and the means with which to accomplish the goal and humble the tormentor.

( 4 ) The attributes a key/reserve currency must have are those of a sound bank: safety--the countrys institutions must be stable and protected by military power; liquidity, the country has to protect the value of its currency both at home and abroad; yield, which is taken care of by the supply of, and the demand for, the currency.

The Monetary Alliance of China, the Middle-East and Japan, bolstered by Russian bear, provides an economic hegemony which more than satisfies the key currency/reserve currency requirements.

The yuan will be revalued--one wonders if leaks of the revaluation prompt the constant devaluation talk; further, it will NOT be revalued against the dollar , rather revalued against the yen to bring the two currencies to something approaching parity.

Adjustments will no doubt be necessary for the satellite-currencies, and they will be merged into the Golden Yen basket of currencies defined by the links to Gold Franc. This is not a grand, mad scheme; all currencies have a value in gold, but gold priced in dollars. For the Golden Yen gold WILL NOT BE PRICED IN DOLLARS.

US markets may continue the pretense, and the average American citizens may NEVER see the reality of it unless they travel to the Orient or Europe, and are obliged to pick up their own tabs. Nonetheless, the high probability is that the GY will not be backed by gold, but LINKED to gold; further, it is probable that the link will be to the BIS Gold Franc . It is a modest beginning that allows the fledgings flexibility allied with stability.

( 5 ) It is perhaps too difficult a truth to swallow in one fell swoop: those who yearn for honest money have more in common with the People of the Ribat and the Peoples Republic of China than they do with the people paralyzed by paper in Washington , D.C.

Perhaps it is necessary to actually read the reams of documents and speeches of the current crop of Chinese leaders to appreciate their animating motivation. They are at the point in the cycle where they are building, creating, tearing-down, re-thinking, re-fashioning and the more they do, the greater their enthusiasms to do more. There is excitement, and a growing belief that THEY will be the generation that started the Chinas Renaissance. The younger leaders-of-tomorrow are being caught-up in the explosion of possibilities.

The labels are useless. Just as it is difficult, if not impossible, to discern real philosophical difference between American Democrats and Republicans, so to the label of Chinese Communist is terribly flawed. The form and content of the Chinese government that is now in power is very little different from the best of their imperial past. And they have set in motion forces that will, in the years ahead, fashion from todays reality something yet different.

( 6 ) Europes attachment to gold will be, is, a measured response of what they must do in order to purchase a trading seat on the Eastern Exchange. The power shift is from West to East and their motto appears to be volens et potens.

(Fri May 01 1998 00:28 - ID#31868)
Prometheus - good evening
Don't forget, they threw Hillary out of the Club in Manhattan for making to much noise with her friend. Right out the door. Gone, goodbye, outta here. And NY is not sophisticated, everything just costs more.

(Fri May 01 1998 00:29 - ID#330175)
@ my ((Swans)) song.....................................*Go Gold*

(Fri May 01 1998 00:32 - ID#31868)

(Fri May 01 1998 00:38 - ID#26669)
zeke re gold chain
The chain I saw was maybe 4 or 5 feet long and the links were very light weight due to their cruciform cross section. This was in one of the traveling jewelry sales and not in the museum. I looked up a couple of links pertaining to this subject and did find one with a pic of a smaller chain than the one I saw. Good night and golden dreams.

This doesn't show the detail or size of the chain I saw:

A discussion of rare gold from the Atocha:

(Fri May 01 1998 00:41 - ID#31868)
The coverage here is realy quite like the rest of the country. The more tawdry and sensational the media can make anything, they will, money, money, money.

(Fri May 01 1998 00:42 - ID#255284)
See ya, mate.

(Fri May 01 1998 00:42 - ID#255284)
See ya soon

(Fri May 01 1998 00:43 - ID#288156)
Now EU has the Middle-East Peace Envoy duty -- EU Envoy Delivers Message to Beirut
BEIRUT ( Reuters ) -- The European Union envoy to the Middle East
said on Thursday he had brought Lebanese authorities a message on
Israel's ``real intentions'' in a proposed conditional troop pullout from
south Lebanon.

Ebb tide for US as peace-power broker? Certainly appears so.
And what happens when they say, "Thanks but no thanks. We don't
want to trade in your currency. We have stacks and stacks of your currency in the basement. Convert to GY/Euro and then we'll be
happy to sell you those TVs....{:- (

(Fri May 01 1998 00:44 - ID#307271)
Thanks. Beautiful piece...only $130,000. And Good Night to you my friend.

(Fri May 01 1998 00:45 - ID#173274)
@the scene
JTF -- ZPE is MUCH easier to generate than to capture. In fact, I believe we do it everyday, but just don't even know it, 'cause we don't capture it. Think about it! I also think that conventional technology CAN capture it, and probably does inadvertantly. I just think that just a 'couple' things in the current physics need to be properly revisited!

(Fri May 01 1998 00:46 - ID#210235)
Since you're up late anyway, did you perchance see my Email a few days back. Mentioned my friend who walks on coals - steady as she goes, right to the end of the line.

How goes it?

(Fri May 01 1998 00:48 - ID#26669)
servehard one last post for tonight
IMHO if there is gold mined from a given mine it will have a specific isotope ratio fingerprint of that mine and fingerprint of the isotopes of its silver and base metals left as impurities. Even if the impurities are 0.000001% there are zillions of molecules left. This used mass spectroscopy back when I was studying it. Who knows what they use now?

Also if gold was recast after the start of the nuclear age it is mildly radioactive, again because of trace impurities. IMHO

You'll have to pester one of the engineers or geologists for more info at this point. This is where my junior high school ( 'jes kiddin' ) second semester instrumental quantitative analysis course petered out. :^ )

(Fri May 01 1998 00:49 - ID#190411)
SDRer's point one.
What do they do with too fast women in Akansas?

they put a governor on them. With all due respect, sorry.

(Fri May 01 1998 00:50 - ID#31868)
Prometheus - yes, thought I wrote back? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Better, much better, conversing with Piglet and the great Pooh. Better, I appreciate your asking. Kind of you. Namaste'

(Fri May 01 1998 00:50 - ID#256250)
As Arden noted earlier comex eligible stocks dropped on this exciting day.
I would like to attach a post of Allen's from earlier today.


Gold 50,000
Silver 21,000
H.G. Copper 12,000

warehouse stocks:
-- GOLD ( Quoted in Troy Ounce )
Prev. Received Net. Adjust- Total
Total Withdrawn Chg. ment Today

477,406 13,955 0 13,955 4,723 496,084
167,035 0 0 0 -4,723 162,312
644,441 13,955 0 13,955 0 658,396

-- ( Quoted in Troy Ounce )
Net. Adjust- Total
Chg. ment Today

-10,197 0 36,050,079
146,876 0 52,506,354
136,679 0 88,556,433

Date: Thu Apr 30 1998 14:41
Allen ( USA ) ( Market ) ID#246224:
Copyright  1998 Allen ( USA ) /Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The physical does not make this market, the paper market is what we are in thrall to here and now. Important to recognize that. If folks holding certificates wish to sell then the price drops a bit. If there is buying pressure in the paper market then prices rise.

Millions of ounces are being traded at COMEX, tens of millions traded at LBMA on a daily basis. This is all predicated on a fractional reserve system in gold bullion. If banking practice is our guide in this matter we can believe that there is a 5 or 10 to 1 ratio between paper commitments and actual physical reserves.

So long as this system works then it works, just like a bank which works because its customers do not ask for cash. The moment there is a 'run' on the paper gold market, then you will see a turn. Each ounce removed by a long holding a certificate endangers 5 or 10 ounces of paper positions.

Remember the recent LONDON TIMES article which discussed the possibility that the Bank of England may not have its gold loans repayed with gold? Est 57 tonnes ball park ( no official word on the real amount ) . Why might someone publish something which seems so remote a possibility, so un-useful a piece of information, so speculative a notion?

There is no FDIC for bullion banks. There are not that many of them. The risk here is quite concentrated. These people have painted themselves into a corner. Unless they can 'recapitalize' their paper positions by slowly weaning people out of the paper market ( thus destroying the excess paper certificates ) , or by buying physical gold reserves then the game will finish badly. Its a very delicate balance they are maintaining at the moment.

What they can't afford is for increasing investment demand to concentrate on acquition of physical bullion since this would evaporate the thin market for the physical. The problem is that price is rising. This will attract attention; and as someone posted earlier today will attract purely momentum players with very big pockets ( in relationship to the total gold market ( paper and physical ) ) .

One of these days .. WOW!!!

(Fri May 01 1998 00:54 - ID#31868)
Prometheus - all - regarding Namaste' - a gift to me from SilverBaron

(Fri May 01 1998 00:54 - ID#256250)
Date: Fri May 01 1998 00:00
Jack ( A.Goose ) ID#252127:

Good points about China and commodities. Remember back 18 months or so when Japan was caught horading copper. I think your right China and Asia are the future and they are the manufacturing engine for the WORLD. They need LOTS of commodities.

As for the BIS and locating in China, I think SDRer is on to what is going on. It is BIGTIME.


(Fri May 01 1998 00:59 - ID#339274)
FWIW Silver strength kicking in starting tomorrow until May 15
Happy trading

(Fri May 01 1998 01:01 - ID#256250)
Date: Fri May 01 1998 00:15
oris ( A.Goose\Statement from the Kremlin ) ID#238422:

Russia or the Russian mafia will make money on it. Maybe Russia will use Platinum and Palladium to play with China, Japan and Islan on the Asian currency circuit.

SDRer- Thanks keep up the excellant work. How about it, Russia platinum and palladium stocks ( beside military power ) would be useful in the new world order ( Islam, China, Russia, Japan and Switzerland ( BIS ) ) . It sounds awlfuly good to me. Just has to be something in it.

Goodnight ( I must seek the golden dreams )

(Fri May 01 1998 01:02 - ID#173274)
@the scene
A. Goose -- My sentiments exactly. Seems to BE about the time! BE a dippy and BUY GOLD!!!

(Fri May 01 1998 01:05 - ID#31868)
Do you have a copy of Web Ferrett?

(Fri May 01 1998 01:14 - ID#28594)
Thanks Goose! You got there all by yourself! No help from me...
and I found that url you asked about. I think it is a wonderfully clever approach. Just 1/20 of an ounce, and they call it the
Lucky Gold Coin. Within the reach of modest, middle class
families for a special event.

Tolerant1@Web.Ferret Is that something I can have a
copy of? {:- ) I have to be honest Tolerant1, I'm not really big on snakes, bugs or ferrets...willing to consider a "Web" Ferrett...
R U teasing?

(Fri May 01 1998 01:16 - ID#210235)
Thank you so much for finding me that reference. I had originally heard it meant "I bow to the God within you". It's one of the world's most beautiful thoughts. Kind of hard to pick a fight with someone after that, I suppose ( never tried ) .

Namaste. Now all I have to do is figure out how to make that accent mark without going into WORD and pulling out another font!

BTW, I disagree with you on the sophistication of New Yorkers; I've spent enough time there to know better. Nicely self-deprecating of you, however. Best, L.

(Fri May 01 1998 01:20 - ID#173274)
@the scene
RJ -- I appreciate your assessments of my 'thoughts' earlier. One doesn't get that here tooooooo often, or sometimes, ever. In that regard, I also have been very negligent. Thus, I offer my profound appologies to those who have diligently posted those very note-worthy postings of important 'things', that have not been 'recognized'. We've all been there I believe. Please note that they ARE recognized, even if otherwise 'unnoticed'. ALL IS IMPORTANT!! Thus, IF one feels that their particular postings are going unnoticed, please KNOW that ALL is somehow being 'assimilated'. All is not lost! Just keep the 'bat' swingin'. My BEST regards to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Fri May 01 1998 01:20 - ID#255151)
GOT 'EM!!!

Got my Mounties in my hands right now. Kitco's service is as good as its forum. They are absolutely stunning!

(Fri May 01 1998 01:20 - ID#31868)
SDR_er - No I am not kidding. Yes you can have your very own...

Please note this sent to me from SilverBaron, the boy amazes me. Not go along, scroll down to freeware and really start digging into the maze that is the www. Namaste'

(Fri May 01 1998 01:23 - ID#31868)
Simply go up above the toolbar in Word - File, Edit, View, click Insert, slide down menu to symbol, and there you have it.

(Fri May 01 1998 01:24 - ID#210235)
Thanks also to SilverBaron, for finding you that article.

Can't think of a better way to end this night. Namaste. L.

(Fri May 01 1998 01:24 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Auric -- Congrats on the mounties! I'll BET they are beauts!

(Fri May 01 1998 01:26 - ID#28594)
When the brain doesn't work any better than THAT, I should
be thrilled to be ALLOWED to associate with bugs, snakes
and ferretts ( won't have me, betcha )

Tolerant1 --I am in full accord with Prometheus, said so well, I shall just say, "Me too!" Thanks, Tolerant1...

Time to go look at the stars...
Goodnight all.

(Fri May 01 1998 01:38 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Oh yea. Almost forgot. DO NOT be negligent in buying silver and platinum at these relative low levels. THEY ARE going to SCOOT! Perhaps even before gold! Hell, probably before gold! How would you like to see 500+ Platinum in near term? That should be an easy 25%! on the physical. And should one expect it to collapse from there? Somehow I doubt that it could do that too much.

silver plate
(Fri May 01 1998 01:46 - ID#234253)
What means "eligible" ? do we now have ineligible gold?
so how does gold change its color ?

(Fri May 01 1998 01:46 - ID#220325)
Mike Sheller--Thank you for your considerate comments
The reason I have not responded by naming names re previous posters is that I felt it would only invite more controversy. I am sure that you can think of an example of an individual who presented well reasoned arguments that were freely given for the benefit of all. He was totally wrong in his forecasts and was vilified for his good intentions. I am sure he left feeling the pitts. I am all for free speech without trashing someone else. To my knowledge you have avoided controversy because of your pleasant and informed responses to all comers even those that have tried to attack you through astrology. You are to be admired and followed as an excellent example of the success of Kitco.

Best wishes

(Fri May 01 1998 01:51 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Got to call it a nite at this point. I'll attempt to not let the goldbugs bite, though they do have their wiley ways. Sharefin -- Keep it all in line 'till the mornin' at least; No irrational exuberance in the gold for a few more days, etc..... and I'm NOT saying the same in the others!

(Fri May 01 1998 01:53 - ID#255151)

They ARE beauts! On the outer border of the coin is written "US $310 GUARANTEED BY THE RCM TO JAN 1st 2000"

(Fri May 01 1998 02:07 - ID#45173)
Y2K note
Expect the Unexpected: Why the Value of the U.S. Equity Market will Decline by 25% to 30% by the End of 1998 due to the Year 2000 Issue

Doesn't explain the events that will put Y2K related business risks on investors' radar as an investment risk factor, but does argue well that Y2K non-compliance will influence investor confidence heavily by the end of 1998. I expect that by the end of this year a sufficient number of people will have begun to withdraw cash from their banks for fear of a Y2K problem at their bank that we will have a banking problem long before the year 2000. Here in the USA, our banks have enough cash on hand to fulfill the demands of 5% of depositors.


(Fri May 01 1998 02:09 - ID#253228)
Comments you don't like to hear
Panda posted a daily chart of gold covering the rally from January lows. To me it had the look of an Elliott a-b-c countertrend rally. If this is correct then there is yet another leg down in the gold bear.

My cyclical work on Homestake continues to show a devistating drop although I will admit that I never expected the rally from the lows to go as high as it did or last as long as it did. It looks to me that the only thing holding Homestake up is the perception that it has not broken the current upchannel. I think a number of people hold until these channels are broken and then sell which often gives sharp moves whenever some trend is violated.

It should be obvious over the next two weeks if I am correct to wear my bear skin. Homestake's January low was right below $8 so if that is broken you can be sure another big downmove is in the works. The good news is that after Homestake dips down in the low single digits this autumn, it will start a rally that will take it up first above $30 and later coincident with the destruction of the US paper dollar it should soar to what cannot now be guessed ( low $100's ) , but that is years off.

On the S&P500, Dow etc. after each selloff the market has rallied to yet another high. Bulls are just Pavlovian dogs now jumping back in with a big rush as they did today. This time I think they are in for a surprise. It looks to me that this rally could fizzle before the old highs are broken. My cyclical analysis which I posted a couple nights ago shows this and I think it is fairly close to correct.

This looks like one of those times when a short position or good old fake money is the best place to temporarily be.

(Fri May 01 1998 02:44 - ID#255151)
April 31, 1998

1. EJ @ April 30th 19:37--Your insights into what we face in repairing the Y2K date problem are priceless. 2.HepMeMoney@Apr.30th 21:23--Yep, this EURO thing is huge, unwieldy, and nobody know what the Hell it's going to do to world finances! 3.tolerant1 @21:31 April 30--Gold up $20 in a day! Heh heh, I can only imagine what Kitco will be like when that happens! 4.Eldorado @ 01:20 May 01--Well done! Should be read daily by all who post at Kitco!

(Fri May 01 1998 02:53 - ID#255284)
oysters and gold


Frank GOLD, ( I kid you not ) skipper out of Bluff, interviewed on local TV news on the occasion of the opening of the Bluff oyster season today. Especially important as algal bloom last year damaged the beds resulting in a very short season.

These are, in many gumbootlanders' and gastronomes' humble opinions, the best oysters in the world, and unavailable outside NZ. Prices per doz in Bluff $10 ( US$5.53 ) in Auckland ( no AC/DCLand ) 50% more. Shall have a taste test tomorrow.

Macraes mine just out of Dunedin reports
they've forward sold about 5 years production and planning NZ$50m expansion ( because of "Gold Surge" said the NZ Herald )

devils on horseback R us

actually have a good recipe for oysters in a beer batter somewhere...

not tonight

(Fri May 01 1998 02:55 - ID#255151)
Good Night. Off To Bed.

Let's see now... each Mountie is one ounce of Gold, multiplied by 30,000/oz equals... Wow! Hey Bart!

(Fri May 01 1998 03:05 - ID#153102)
Did you ever find out how many buckskins were in a Buck ?

Jeil keeps posting his worrisome projection of more bite in the bear. My take is that another downleg will just make the CB problems with short paper overhang that much worse. So, they won't let it. What think te ?

(Fri May 01 1998 03:06 - ID#255284)
If there's a Russel in the hedgerows, it's probably Crusty's brothr/
Yes, I second that emotion "Eldorado @ 01:20 May 01". Many is the time when I wish to say "Great Post" or "Well Done" to a post read many hours after it was posted. I refrain if just one other poster has made the acknowledgement. That's in the guidelines above.

If your post is not acknowledged, do not be alarmed. If it contained a germ of unique thought or new information, if it was amusing or astounding, there will have been much nodding of heads, grunts of approval, snickers and chuckles and cocking of eyebrows in front of hundreds of computer monitors. All posts are read by many people.

Also, If you have a question that is not answered, don't be alarmed, man, there's still time to change the path you're on, try asking the question at a different time of day or pitching it slightly differently.. Not everyone can read everything, and sometimes you may or may not be lucky enough to post your question when another who knows the answer is lurking.


(Fri May 01 1998 03:09 - ID#255284)
easy conversion factor

as far as I can fathom, equivalence, 1 dollar = one buck-skin.

(Fri May 01 1998 03:16 - ID#153102)
I still can't figure it. There are so many buckskins on the hoof here even now that I doubt you could get hardly more than a buck for one today.

BTW cooking the oyster is more often than not retrograde culinary action.

John Disney__A
(Fri May 01 1998 03:19 - ID#24135)
Various Comments
For Jeil ..
Regarding your a-b-c and big leg
down coming ..
You dont happen to know my son in
Australia do you ??.
For Silver Plate .
That was a dumb idea. It assumes
the US Governments is capable of creative
thought .. other then that which is
directed at taking your money or
staying in power. You must be kidding.
To all
Platinum is off to 398 !! How come
the complaint department is not
blasting RJ ????? I want some clients
and so does Russell.

(Fri May 01 1998 03:24 - ID#39971)
EURO News & Views For The Antipodians From Canada-EH
WILL the euro, the single European currency, end the U.S. dollar's long reign as

the international reserve currency? This is the question being asked by North

American economists and portfolio managers as the final steps are taken to

launch the euro onto the world stage.

On Saturday, 11 of the 15 countries in the European Union will lock their

currencies together by fixing exchange rates. In January, the euro will come to life

and all banks and stock exchanges will start using it, spelling the death of the

mighty German mark, the wobbly French franc, the disaster-prone Italian lira and

the second-tier currencies from Finland to Portugal. If you buy a

mark-denominated bond today, you will be paid back in euros.

The transformation of the euro from concept to reality has happened remarkably

fast. Only a few years ago, when speculators forced the overvalued pound and

lira out of the mechanism that set the trading ranges of the European currencies,

the euro seemed all but doomed. The idea then emerged that a European-wide

currency would evolve in stages, with a core group anchored by France and

Germany adopting it first. The laggards would join once they met the strict entry

requirements, notably the stipulation that deficits cannot exceed 3 per cent of

gross domestic product.

Undaunted, most of the would-be laggards took the pain and met the

qualifications. Italy, for example, slashed its deficit from 6.7 per cent of GDP in

1996 to 3 per cent a year later, when its economic growth was a mere 1.5 per

cent. Italian inflation has been all but wiped out and the stock markets have


The euro's credibility is now gaining momentum amid signs that the European

economy is recovering and unemployment is falling. Some economists and

currency experts, as a result, have become exceedingly bullish on the euro. They

predict it will go from strength to strength and eventually threaten to overtake the

dollar in the same way the dollar overtook the pound as the currency of choice

earlier this century.

The bears say it is far too early to predict the success of the euro because it is

untested and because crucial matters, ranging from the role of the new European

Central Bank to the integration of the bond markets, have yet to be resolved.

Some skeptics also say the euro users, having met the tough economic conditions

to get into the club, will soon abandon any notion of fiscal restraint on the belief

they will never get kicked out.

One of the leading euro-bulls is Avanish Persaud, a foreign exchange expert at

J.P. Morgan in London. In a recent report, he said he believes the euro "will

seriously threaten the dollar as the world's only reserve currency. This process

will be far quicker than many imagine and will be under way in a matter of

months, not years."

Graham Bishop, an adviser to Salomon Smith Barney in London, agrees, saying

the sheer size of the European economy will instantly make the euro a significant

force in global markets. On many measures, including population, exports and

share of world trade, "euroland" is bigger than the United States. Throw in the

reduced transaction costs associated with using the euro for payments and the

assumption that the currency will be adopted by wannabe EU members, such as

the Czech Republic, and you have a real dollar-buster in the making.

If these experts are right, the dollar could slowly lose value. "If the euro gets

established, it's bound to affect the relative value of the U.S. dollar in some way,"

says Alister Smith, deputy chief economist at Canadian Imperial Bank of

Commerce. "Gradually, demand for dollars would fall as the euro gets


A potentially strong euro is one factor that will have to be weighed by

international investors. Another is the sector-versus-country debate. In the past,

portfolio managers in Europe and North America invested in individual country

markets. They would, say, buy Italian bonds and equities as opposed to

pan-European assets, such as health care or automotive securities. Now, with the

advent of the euro and the rapid integration of the European markets, it makes no

more sense to invest in an individual country than it does to invest in an

individual state or province in North America.

The problem, according to Anko Beldsnijder, the European portfolio manager of

ABN Amro Asset Management in Amsterdam, is that few investment firms on

both sides of the Atlantic are equipped to take the sector approach in Europe.

"They will need more resources, such as better research, to do this."

The flip side is that the arrival of the common currency and market means that

Europeans will have to invest outside of Europe to diversify. North America is

the logical destination for them.

The launch of the euro and the melding of the European economies will not alter

the world's monetary and investing landscape overnight. But any notion that the

euro will be either weak or an outright failure is vanishing quickly. In time, the

euro could knock the dollar off its pedestal.

(Fri May 01 1998 03:29 - ID#153102)
@My Own Reflection
The manipulation of markets to coincide the with broadcast of the sound and image of POTUS is taken in stride by those who are aaware of it. But, the implications of this are really unsettling if you think about it. The Treasury Department of America scuttering about on behalf of the vanity of a man. The imagination is not equal to conjecturing what goes on behind closed doors if this is done in front of the world.

Paul Gold__A
(Fri May 01 1998 03:32 - ID#21484)
DROOY to aqcuire more?
It has been reported in the South African financial press that Durban Roodepoort Deep might buy one or more additional marginal gold mines as well as a dump retreatment enterprise. Details at their new website at

(Fri May 01 1998 03:36 - ID#255284)
as to oysters, agree. best raw. by the dozen, off the rocks. BUT, if ya really wanna try something, try em the way the gumbootlanders eat them, kinda scalded in a beer batter. Absolutely wonderful. do you know angels on horseback?

gumbootlanders = dwellers of Southland, that's where Bluff oysters originate.


(Fri May 01 1998 03:39 - ID#340302)
Prefatory Comments...
I love to talk about the New Paradigm with Wall Street analysts and their ilk. It is especially fun when the subject inevitably rolls around to GOLD. Naturally, their eyes light up as they mount a feverish attack against the "barbarous relic."

"Don't you realize we are moving into a New Millennium...don't you realize we are about to face radical changes? Things once sacred will be tossed away while new exciting elements replace them. I mean, during Christ's day, there were crucifixions and we don't have those one time people thought the Earth flat and that belief got thrown out the window...once people got in arguments and went outside and fought gentleman's gun duels, etc., etc.....and so what makes you think GOLD will forever remain a valuable financial asset?"

Of course, all those objections are a society, we are always in flux. Sacred beliefs often turn profane or are dismissed entirely.

So, naturally, I always pose several rebuttals to my various Wall Street analyst friends.

"You know, who says that the American dollar MUST retain its global hegemony in the new Millennium? Who is to say that America will not move into second world status? Who says that Americans will not revert to gold coin usage if it is required by a vital powerful trading partner?
Who says that our paper/digital currency system will survive the Year 2000 Bug? Etc. Etc."

In other words, I fully subscribe to one notion of the Wall Street New Paradigm, namely CHANGE: there are certainly changes awaiting this country and the entire world. However, in an existential, non-linear world, those changes forecast by the Wall Street New Paradigm may not necessarily be the changes that actually manifest.

You can count on it.



John Disney__A
(Fri May 01 1998 03:40 - ID#24135)
Its starting to fit together...
To Oris ..
Regarding Franco Nevada's ( didnt he use to be in the
movies?? ) comments that Norilsk was depleted..
Ive been suspicious for some time.
On my last visit to toronto to check out that story
about the "canadian guy" that was asked to run
Norilsk .. well Russell HINTED that this man had been
in FILMS ( I know this sounds crazy ) .. but bear with
Now we all know that RSA produces a lot of PRATINUM ( ?? )
but not much Palladium and Mother Russia does the
REVERSE.. SO .. suppose I told you that NORILSK
does not produce anything .. the workers all old
extras left over from Eisenstein films ( particularly
Alexander NEVSKY ) ... RSA swaps its own palladium
production to Russia for MIGS and AKs ( and some damn
CHINESE RICE ) ... and they wanted this Canadian Guy
( "RENO" Nevada I believe ) to run the operation
but he moved from Toronto and they lost track of
The Chinese are hinted to be behind the whole thing
.. BUT not the RED Chinese .. Its the Hong Kong FILM

(Fri May 01 1998 03:49 - ID#153102)
Two Empires, two military-industrial complexes. Treasuries exhausted. Institutions decrepit. Their people weary of taxation and shabby in spirit. The fruits of war. A story told again and again in history.

John Disney__A
(Fri May 01 1998 03:52 - ID#24135)
Check out that DRD site
Its good and you can maybe get a gold
price if kitco is not available ..
How did they manage to design the URL
in this here now 3rd world country.
They musta brought is some guys
from California .. sure they did..

(Fri May 01 1998 03:53 - ID#255304)
@Russell in Toronto
All this RANGY talk today. If I had any more I'd buy more.
What does the SA rumor mill tell you about RANGY's time frame? If Pebbles is waiting for a POG rise what sort of NAV might he be after? Furthermore I wonder the final settlement might be?
I'm in till that big fatty sings! This whole scenario should be interesting.

(Fri May 01 1998 03:59 - ID#432148)
Your 03:24 is an excellent analysis of the euro. And the fact that I agree with it has nothing to do with the praise ;- ) The euro of course is not the only item threatening the dollar. Odds are its days of being uno numero are numbered. But then, nothing is for sure in life and it is possible the euro may end up in trouble. It is going to rest on a lot of faith, and how much gold backing, if any, will be a big part of that faith I suspect. I know, if I were a German, I would be highly suspicious of it, unless it had a nice percentage of gold backing. But then, I happen to be very suspicious of politicians of any strip, and without gold backing they will sooner or later destroy any worth the euro will originally have. Time will give us the story. Obviously, I was brought up during a time when the "dollar was as good as gold".

(Fri May 01 1998 03:59 - ID#340302)
More Prefatory Comments....
I have one friend who constantly beratees me.

"Why do you bother writing on that Kitco internet site? Why don't you just use your material for some of your sundry speeches or special articles? Why do you bother wasting your time with some useless forum probably visited by no more than a few hundred people of no special importance? Aren't you just wasting your time? Surely you don't think that group of clowns can affect the entire, vast, global gold market?"

Well, I vehemently disagree. I always believed that it starts with one individual and one compelling idea. If the idea is truthful and powerful, then it will spread like a roaring forest fire. There is simply no stopping it. It will eventually reach the living room of a Buffett or a Soros. With the internet, it races around the world faster than ever before.

I never sell the posters short on this website. From Australia to Canada to S. Africa to New York, whether they are retired or own a coin shop or work in a deli, the posters here genuinely have the power to alter
established conceptual patterns provided they disseminate powerful truths.

Anybody who would dismiss this group of posters as a feckless crowd is himself of no consequence.



(Fri May 01 1998 04:02 - ID#260252)
In a brief nutshell, can anyone tell me what is going on with RANGY per today's postings? I haven't had time to peruse the situation or the posts. TIA - ISO

(Fri May 01 1998 04:06 - ID#290118)
netscape performance
Must of been a heavy day for the Kitco server. No wonder - given the rough ride for gold. Now in the wee hours with less traffic these pages are now displaying nicely. Even the graphics pop up like they used to ( this afternoon all I got was the picture icons ) .

John Disney__A
(Fri May 01 1998 04:10 - ID#24135)
to all
re durban deep gold chart .. heehee..
some idiot has screwed up and chart
shows am prices where its supposed
to show pm prices..
That guy they brought in from
toronto must have done it.

(Fri May 01 1998 04:13 - ID#153102)
All I know is what I read in the funny papers. Posted big "loss" for the quarter. 300 million. But not to worry. It's still got good NAV and Kebbles & Bits is worth more.

(Fri May 01 1998 04:14 - ID#255304)
You should make your Kitco Barometer an actual number. Specifically, invite every poster to list his or her numerical bull or bear number for the following day. This number should be listed after the NY markets and before the London market opens.
10 is max bull
0 is max bear

For example: My Farfel number for friday is 6.5. This could be expressed in F* units F* 6.5

This should save you some time and prove entertaining as well.

Hell, you could even publish a newsletter!

John Disney__A
(Fri May 01 1998 04:14 - ID#24135)
a BRIEF nutshell ?? gee thats not much
for the nutshell man ..

suggest you take time and do homework old buddy..

hows that for a nutshell

John Disney__A
(Fri May 01 1998 04:16 - ID#24135)
Youre a better man than I am..
gunga mozel ...
maybe I should take your How to be a
Gentleman Course .. nah Id get kicked outa

(Fri May 01 1998 04:18 - ID#413109)
Jeil--- HM
"My cyclical work on Homestake continues to show a devistating drop"
Would you please show me why you feel the way you do about this one.
I've been working with cyclical long terms charts for some time, and
wonder if I've missed something. Either here or email- thanks

(Fri May 01 1998 04:25 - ID#340302)
When Switzerland steps forward and states, "We intend to sell half our gold reserves within the next year," or a country like Portugal announces today that "the EURO should not have more than 10-15% gold reserve support," these central bank pronouncements raise several very interesting questions:

1 ) Why would any logical central bank wish to disseminate notably bearish statements about gold which can only serve to depreciate the value of the asset they hold such that when they wish to sell it, they will realize lower revenues for the asset?

2 ) Do certain central banks wish to see gold fall in order to reaccumulate the metal at lower prices on behalf of other central banks?

3 ) Do the central banks desire ultra low gold prices to drive most mining companies out of business in order to effect complete Central bank, oligopolistic control over the gold market with the ultimate intention of raising the value of gold? If so, are they in cahoots with one particular mining company or a group of mining companies to act as the sole remaining, in-ground supplier of gold to the CB's?

4 ) Do the central banks wish to drop the price of gold through the floor such that it will be invalidated by the masses as a valuable financial asset now and in the future? If so, do the central banks wish to do this to maintain the stability of global financial PAPER markets, notably treasuries and equities? Do they have a substitute financial reserve they wish to see replace gold?

5 ) Is it conceivable that the central banks wish to diminish the role of gold in global financial markets because, in reality, they are fearful that the global gold paper market far exceeds the underlying gold physical reserves of various central banks? If this is true, then what would be the consequence to the gold price if paper gold traders were to demand physical deliveries based on their paper gold transactions? Does gold represent the Achilles Heel to the entire global financial status quo?

Many interesting questions...but tonight I want to examine QUESTION NO. FIVE.



(Fri May 01 1998 04:25 - ID#255304)
My exposure is limited. I little of mine & some HGMCY & TVX profits.
El Coyote calls manana, I'm outa here.

Gungamozel ! Damn Funny!

(Fri May 01 1998 04:27 - ID#153102)
@Cap'n Disney
Me and all my friends was born in the wrong century. That maybe is why we are so unpredictable.

(Fri May 01 1998 04:37 - ID#286224)
@ Disney --- I think I heard a Rustle from somewhere Deep!

(Fri May 01 1998 04:56 - ID#340302)
It seems the major catalyst to the entire gold price debacle these last few years stems from the Bronfman Commission and its vigorous attempts to get the Swiss Banks to provide compensation to Holocaust victims whose wartimes assets ( primarily gold ) appear to have disappeared from Swiss Banks.

If in fact the Bronfman Commission's charges are true ( and I believe they are ) , then it means that for some fifty years, Swiss bankers have pulled off one of the greatest heists in history. Such grand theft raises interesting questions.

If the Swiss banks managed to steal all this gold with essentially no notable complaint leveled against them for some 50 years, then why stop there? Usually, when a thief succeeds at his larceny, then he does not reform immediately thereafter. No, he figures that if he got away with it once, he can do it again.

So, did the Swiss banks decide that, if they could steal gold from the Jews, they might be able to steal it from their own population? In other words, do the thousands of tons of gold in the Swiss reserves really exist? Or has the majority of these reserves been stolen and disposed of by now? If most of these reserves have been stolen, did the theft take place in actual physical form...or is it theft via paper, i.e., selling a great deal more gold paper than represented by real physical reserves? Were certain central banks in cahoots with Switzerland in effecting this gold ruse? If this scenario is true, then what would be the consequences of Jews demanding physical gold compensation? Would these demands lead to the collapse of a great Swiss gold dissemblance? Would a perpetually collapsing price of gold disincline Jews, financial institutions, and the average investor from demanding physical delivery of the metal, thereby revealing the "empty" gold vaults to the world? Is CB gold leasing merely a subterfuge designed to prevent a real, complete inventory of CB gold reserves?

Many questions to ponder. Many questions to ponder.

It is funny to think that America is making a big deal about UN arms inspectors and the imperative for them to go in and make a real, detailed inventory of nuclear weapons in Iraq. Time and again, Mr. Clinton alerts Americans of the great importance to world peace and safety that such an arms inspection take place.

Yet, maybe it might be equally important to the safety of the world financial system that some international body sends in some gold inspectors to effect a real, inventory of gold reserves, just to make sure that all the gold is really there.




(Fri May 01 1998 04:59 - ID#340302)
@ALL...and so what does it all mean?



(Fri May 01 1998 05:14 - ID#260252)
Question No. 5
Farfel, given the reported gold paper trading volumes, if everyone sought the physical for their paper trades, obvious shortage would result, similar to bank run ( failure ) . So the bank closes. What's left? Angry, defrauded customers seeking compensation through substitutes? lawsuits? holding out for freshly-mined physical? More importantly, who pays? What's the effect to the world equities markets?
I don't know the answers ( I'm not that smart ... although I'm willing/trying to learn ) , but with each question, the gravity increases. Thanks for asking the questions. - ISO

Oh yeah, the price of gold goes up in a rather vertical fashion.

(Fri May 01 1998 05:15 - ID#260252)
Not only am I not smart, I a little behind in my response per your 4:59.

(Fri May 01 1998 05:21 - ID#340302)
@17IS03...just in case you were wondering ....

That is why I am about to repost it several times.



(Fri May 01 1998 05:24 - ID#340302)

It seems the major catalyst to the entire gold price debacle these last few years stems from the Bronfman Commission and its vigorous attempts to get the Swiss Banks to provide compensation to Holocaust victims whose wartimes assets ( primarily gold ) appear to have disappeared from Swiss Banks.

If in fact the Bronfman Commission's charges are true ( and I believe they are ) , then it means that for some fifty years, Swiss bankers have pulled off one of the greatest heists in history. Such grand theft raises interesting questions.

If the Swiss banks managed to steal all this gold with essentially no notable complaint leveled against them for some 50 years, then why stop there? Usually, when a thief succeeds at his larceny, then he does not reform immediately thereafter. No, he figures that if he got away with it once, he can do it again.

So, did the Swiss banks decide that, if they could steal gold from the Jews, they might be able to steal it from their own population? In other words, do the thousands of tons of gold in the Swiss reserves really exist? Or has the majority of these reserves been stolen and disposed of by now? If most of these reserves have been stolen, did the theft take place in actual physical form...or is it theft via paper, i.e., selling a great deal more gold paper than represented by real physical reserves? Were certain central banks in cahoots with Switzerland in effecting this gold ruse? If this scenario is true, then what would be the consequences of Jews demanding physical gold compensation? Would these demands lead to the collapse of a great Swiss gold dissemblance? Would a perpetually collapsing price of gold disincline Jews, financial institutions, and the average investor from demanding physical delivery of the metal, thereby revealing the "empty" gold vaults to the world? Is CB gold leasing merely a subterfuge designed to prevent a real, complete inventory of CB gold reserves?

Many questions to ponder. Many questions to ponder.

It is funny to think that America is making a big deal about UN arms inspectors and the imperative for them to go in and make a real, detailed inventory of nuclear weapons in Iraq. Time and again, Mr. Clinton alerts Americans of the great importance to world peace and safety that such an arms inspection take place.

Yet, maybe it might be equally important to the safety of the world financial system that some international body sends in some gold inspectors to effect a real, inventory of gold reserves, just to make sure that all the gold is really there.




(Fri May 01 1998 05:26 - ID#230376)
@ All....

FWIW...was talking with a couple of floor traders from the Board of Trade in Chicago yesterday. They will be buyers of gold below $300 and?or sellers @ $316 so one can only assume that that's where the stops are there abouts.BTW their credibility has been good to me ....
Good day from the chilly Midwest.

(Fri May 01 1998 05:26 - ID#250121)

How many loaded, rhetorical, self-serving questions can i ask?

(Fri May 01 1998 05:46 - ID#284255)
Probably a good time to be on the fence.
Although I bet Oldman is long.
But his SAR is quick.

I think we need confirmation that the next upleg is underway.
Currently, I believe that the markets could go either way.

As per the avid chatter;
Many of the internals measures are not healthy.

Plus there is too much talk on the street,
About the correction we need,
So we can go higher.

Love those Bluff oysters - used to buy them in the gallon cans.
A dozen dozen I think - ummmmmm!!!!!!!!!!

But my favourites were always good homemade Paua fritters.
Last trip we had around NZ was years ago and we lived off the mussels off the rocks. A campfire next to the Kombi, with mussels cooking on the coals. A nice bottle of white and looking into the eyes of the one I love.
Those were the days my friend.

Mozel @ My Own Reflection
What's been going on behind closed doors for a long time in front of the rest of the world?

The same happened last October when the markets were about to tank.
5 minutes before Clinton came on TV to reassure his voters,
The futures went through the roof.
Carefully orchestrated manipulation.

This article speaks a little of this with back up links.

Amazes me that they can do this under the public eye - repetitively.
The way they talk about this habit on Avid makes me laugh.
And the general population couldn't give a damn.

This bull rally is a political rally - ask Oldman.

And anything goes.
And the voters love it
Just like the dippies.

(Fri May 01 1998 05:49 - ID#250121)

Date: Fri May 01 1998 05:21
farfel ( @17IS03...just in case you were wondering .... ) ID#340302:

That is why I am about to repost it several times.






Your posts ARE SO IMPORTANT that you should post them every hour. Heck they're probably SO IMPORTANT that you should post them every five minutes. But I'm probably not ranking your posts AS IMPORTANT AS THEY REALLY ARE You should post every MINUTE, NOONE else should post at this site, so this site could be entirely devoted to F*s MOST IMPORTANT POSTS.

what an arfole

I shall go away to ponder dogs with full bellies

BTW the kuri, the maori dog, ate only vegetables, never meat. The kuri were even breast-fed by women. Kuri were supposed to taste like veal. The kuri is extinct.

(Fri May 01 1998 06:08 - ID#260252)
What do you, Zeus and the other gods do all day while us mere mortals work hard down here on the ground, seeking knowledge about things we don't know? - ISO

PS - This is asked in good humor. I'm not trying to start anything. I just wish to know more re: PM's, and therefore, I lurk at this site. I, for one, appreciate the informative, thought-provoking posts ( right or wrong ) , such as F*'s, Another's, etc. I don't always appreciate the full body slams unless they are really, really funny. BTW, seafood is good food.

(Fri May 01 1998 06:08 - ID#284255)
Kumera, angels on horseback and Coopers - mmmmm
Most important! My man.

(Fri May 01 1998 06:17 - ID#31876)
Chinese Version of Big Bang -- WASHINGTON POST Scoop

(Fri May 01 1998 06:20 - ID#31876)
Wrong Publication
That last post should be WASHINGTON TIMES, not WASHINGTON POST

(Fri May 01 1998 06:21 - ID#256326)
In the so-called golden state
where no wrong goes unrighted nor any right unwronged, if you fail to contact your bank in writing for five years, your account is seized by the all-knowing government in Saccamenna. How does this differ materially from what happened to some depositors in Switzerland?

(Fri May 01 1998 06:27 - ID#250121)
cum grano salis
I hope I got that right. Well said, sir. So do I, enjoy thought-provoking posts. I shall try to be funnier with my full body slams, but you should also learn to take my posts with the grain of salt they deserve. Sometimes, some of us forget our salt sellers and get a little pompous, no?

I am an ornithologist and enjoy pouring salt on the pompous preeners that bask in their reflections at kitco.

I too enjoy F*'s posts, but I can read them once and know the gist. Heck I can skim over them while I watch TV and keep one hand on, well There is absolutely no reason for anyone to intentionally mutlipple post.

I know mutlipple is wrong, but its kinda cute and erotic, so it stays.

As to what XENA and I, and the others on Olympia do while you work?

Why, we sleep.

(Fri May 01 1998 06:33 - ID#284255)
Avid chatter - note the comment about gold
Bill....clean?.... get over it. Rubin is the smartest. brilliant, but even he repeats Ronnie's talks. Read it before you deny it. Greenspan. Feel worst for him. He must live with the immense worry if it happens on his watch.....while the masses of minions are cheering the party he is watching.

The party will get bigger, wilder. And when, as is starting to get some wispers already, that AG is too worried. will then go even higher!

Hello folks! Wow was that ever a short Bear market! The Bears barely ( heh, heh ) had time to get out of their winter dens.

This has to be so similiar to how it felt before the 20s or 30 debacle. Ulmost invincible. Hey, I am not short, just heavily in cash. Trying to enjoy the experience of observing an infrequent event.

what the bear market ( 3 day ) proved is that people can now be frightened out of their longs. that may seem pretty simple, but it is a major change. it proves to me that when the break comes it will not be as gentle as i had supposed.

even Helen Thomas is now intimidated by Clinton, he totally blew off Sam Donaldson like he wasn't even there ( Sam that is ) , the moral authority questions just bounced right out of the room, I 'm tellin ya, no one can touch him, nobody, not even the truth, because there is no such thing as truth, unless you are Bill Clinton and the truth is whatever you say. If it is raining outside, and Clinton ( Billy Blythe his real name ) says its sunny, its sunny, and everyone will believe him

to a point the people don't want to hear, but they do hear. so there will be a morning when payback comes. believe me i know my fellow americans.

T'weren't no fear out there. the p/c ratio never got higher than .73 or so. You normally see it higher than 1.25 or so at market bottoms from massive put buying. I suspect we'll see a re-test of the lows soon, and depending on the trigger, a break.

and the thing about Clinton is he just gets better at playing the game. You'd never know he is radically abusing the power of the presidency, he is THE smoothest BS'er of all time

this market is as teflon as clinton, nothing negative sticks for any time

If you think Slick Willie is the best liar there is, you obviously didnt see Hillary's "pretty in pink" press conference, wherein she looked right into the camera and said that she turned a grand into 100 grand in less than a year trading commodities, without ANY previous trading experience, simply by reading the Wall Street Journal. Slick's good---real good. But he's a poor second best in that house.

If you think we got a problem now, just wait 3 years and see what the Hillary C. administration is doing to the old Republic.

oleman, you're right, how could I forget?

you gotta love this market, though. I mean we go through this titanic struggle to break out of that monthly range for 6 weeks and here we are again, trading at 111950 like nothing happened, go figure

oleman: i get the feeling the market is preparing for something...what do you think?

georgew- I agree, somewhere here the teflon market fails.I have a real hard time believing that we wait 'til the fall.This could be the biggest set-up in 10 years if we dont bomb up from here soon. I think this last week was a warning, and those who disregard it may pay dearly.

In a way, its funny. All the lying and "acting" is necessary to fool a paltry 10 or 12% of the voters. They have a solid 40%, represented by the racial extortion lobby, the queer/feminist lobby, the unions, and the "intellectual" lobby. Of course the open border immigration policy and the differential birth rates among the constituent groups reduces that 10-12% by about 1-1 1/2% per year. By about 2008, they wont have to fool anybody to stay in power.

I am intrigued by the compression. Each correction is shorter. Soon the corrections should be only hourly after weeks of internal deterioration. lol. The coil is getting awfully tight imho.

When the Great One is scheduled to go on camera in the afternoon, and numbers produced by HIS people are due out in the a.m., it behooves the astute speculator to be LONG!

yeah, ole, you got that right. These guys are just plain magicians the way they can levitate this thing

we ended april with roughly 4% correction and slightly up on the month which corresponded perfectly with geometry ( sorry can't convey it any better ) ....the next few days will hopefully reveal the coming trend better.

Bond is within a day's range of reestablishing the bull and gold is just as close to saying "bear". I still expect a retest of Monday's low, but its gotta come in the next 2 or 3 days, or its another moon shot. The people who control all the money in the world are the same people who put Der Slick where he is. I think they've decided to worry about the "bubble" only AFTER it bursts. If you listened to the Big Bubba today, you know that without the bull to lean on, he would have been totally disarmed. Since, as I've said here for over a year, Slick cant live after the bull dies, we may see some real silliness before its over. It has reached the point where it will feed on itself, barring any move by the Fed, and the Fed----Klinton's people all---aint gonna take awahy the punch bowl and end their party. so it will continue as long as it is possible for it to continue. IMO, that's a long time. And a LOT of DJIA points.

oleman: i thought the same on hearing clinton's speech, politically he almost capped greenspan's hike to a minimal .25 at most.......full agreement on gold's retest....i am as bullish as can be but just looking out for possible correction ( kinks may be found in currencies,bond, overseas actions ) since it may be a good one...

clinton may let us feel good in that he capped hike to zero, but that may not be the case...currencies will let us know about bonds outlook...

i still think europe will outdo us, look at their actions amazing...and the charts of price vs gdp still attractive...

For 5 years now, I've been mildly amused by the way everyone talks about what Greenspan is going to do. I have known since Slick's first State of the Union speech what AG is going to do----exactly what the Klintonistas want him to do. The Fed was 80 years old that year, but that was the FIRST time a Fed chairman had ever blatantly showed public support for an administration. He sat with Her Royal Lie-ness, HRC. Even a "Gump" from the South, like me, knew what was what after that.

oleman: i hope for the best that fed freezes and listens to would certainly be in my favor..just can't stop looking at services inflation chart though...let it go away...

My indicator, which uses breadth, VIX, $P/C, as the major inputs, was the most oversold Monday its been in the 2+ years since I devised it. Its been a good couple of days.: ) 'nite all. gone.

(Fri May 01 1998 06:39 - ID#260252)
Cool ... thanks ... later - ISO

(Fri May 01 1998 06:44 - ID#284255)
MMMMMMMM - My favourite 4me

Great url for seafood recipes.

Compliments of oysterologist Aurator.

Worthy of a bookmark.
And a case of chilled white.

(Fri May 01 1998 06:58 - ID#26793)
Not a single comment on this valuable post of yesterday? Tsk,tsk, I'll try again.

(Fri May 01 1998 07:00 - ID#411331)
@Farfel et all: If the Swiss did steal Jewish gold, is there any way of estimating
how much gold that would represent? What percentage of their CB reserves represent gold stolen from Jews? The world will never know.

If the Swiss stole gold, they are very unlikely to lend it out again in
physical form. ( Thieves are not a trusting bunch ) They might lend it in paper form and issue more paper than have gold to back it. Thieves would do that! I see two extreme possibilities:

1 ) I suspect there is far more paper gold circulating than physical backing, but I would guess that most of the physical is still safe and sound in
CB vaults. Possession is 9/10 of the law.

2 ) Let's consider the alternative. What if the CB's have leased all their
gold to speculators, who get caught in a squeeze, and none of it is comming back? Wouldn't the world be forced to demonetize gold? The EURO backing would be zero physical and empty promises. The EURO would fail,
and we would have political and financial suicide for the power structure in the EC.

I favor possiblity 1 ) IMHO

(Fri May 01 1998 07:04 - ID#26793)
U.S. - Japanese economic tension growing at the high government official level.

(Fri May 01 1998 07:09 - ID#330175)
I didn't think my ISP could do anything right-----------*Go Gold*
The plug was supposed to be pulled on moi at the END of yesterday---Only had to e-mail them FIVE times and call them THREE times till I could get e-mail confirmation that I was being terminaTED...and look what good that did ( duh ) ---Did all this after reading a letter in the yocal paper about how my beloved ISP routinely charged people for one extra month ( more typical Atlantic Canadian 'attention to detail' ) ....

(Fri May 01 1998 07:09 - ID#26793)
Japanese reserves in steepest monthly drop ever.

(Fri May 01 1998 07:10 - ID#333127)
to Donald
I read it, just think how lucky we are to be able to buy at these levels. Afew well placed investments could set one up for life.

(Fri May 01 1998 07:11 - ID#341189)
Good Morning
Donald, Did you notice my reply and chart explanation last night?

(Fri May 01 1998 07:12 - ID#317193)
Good to see you back online. My response to your post is as posted last night. I'm buying. Tom

(Fri May 01 1998 07:15 - ID#284255)
How to build a Web page

(Fri May 01 1998 07:17 - ID#26793)
Hi Carl: Yes, thank you. Going to print it out, turn off CNBC and study it for awhile. Did you notice the drop in XAU JUST BEFORE 2 O'CLOCK EDST?

(Fri May 01 1998 07:22 - ID#26793)
Textbook deflationary example. Multiply times 100,000 companies?

(Fri May 01 1998 07:23 - ID#341189)
Yes. I was out at Noon. I have no oppinion on gold here. Just the shares. To summarize, I think your .3 sell trigger is too high at these levels and will be too low at higher levels.

(Fri May 01 1998 07:29 - ID#393224)
SDRer--G'day mate.

Date: Fri May 01 1998 00:21
SDRer__A ( A. Goose--here you go... ) ID#288156:
Copyright  1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
1 ) When viewed in its global money guise, it is apparent why fiat political monetary powers eschew gold. Gold
functions as a governor on the fiat/debt monetary engine; gold fiat currency is an economic oxymoron.

The guise I know tried eschewing some of that gold, but it didn't taste very good, so they spat it out.

I agree that fiat's have good engines. Owned one once and it went like the clappers. Mine didn't have a gold governor on it though.

Mate, be careful when you call an ox a moron. There are animal liberationists lurking on this site and you could get in heaps of trouble.

Other than those minor criticisms, I enjoyed your article on how to cook a goose.

cheers, Nick.

(Fri May 01 1998 07:31 - ID#26793)
Investors concerned about the health of Japanese companies.

(Fri May 01 1998 07:41 - ID#26793)
Microbes discovered capable of devouring effluent from gold extraction process.

(Fri May 01 1998 07:42 - ID#224363)
Morning all...
Late start this morning...

Are we ready for another mediocre day on the PM market followed by a charge to $300 next week with a surge back up to $315 ?

(Fri May 01 1998 07:47 - ID#330175)
This is not a

It was another Payday and I was tired of Mr. Goodbar. I saw
Miss Hershey standing behind the Powerhouse on the corner of Clark and
Fifth Avenue when I whipped out my Whopper and whispered, "hey
how'd you like to Krunch on my big hunk for a Million Dollar Bar?"
she immediately went down on my Tootsie Roll, and it
was like Pure Almond Joy! I couldn't help but grab her delicious Mounds

because it was easy to see that this little Twix had the Red Hots. It
all I could do to hold the Snicker and Crackle as my Butterfinger went
her tight little Kit Kat and she started to scream "Oh Henry, Oh Henry!"

Soon she was fondling my Peter Pan and ZagNut and I knew it wouldn't be
long before I blew my Milk Duds clear to Mars that gave her a taste of
old Milky Way. She asked me if I was into M&M but said, "hey
no kinky stuff." I said "Look you little Reese's Pieces, don't be a
be a Lifesaver. Why don't you take my Whatchamacallit and slip it up
Bit 'O' Honey?" ( What a piece of Juicy Fruit she was, too! ) She
"Oh Crackerjack, better than the Three Musketeers!" as I rammed my Ding
Dong up her Rocky Road and into her Peanut Butter Cup. Well, I was
it to her Good 'N' Plenty, when all the Starburst! Yeah, as

luck would have it, she started to grow Chunky and complained of a
in her stomach. Sure enough, nine months later, out

(Fri May 01 1998 07:52 - ID#348169)
Gold Correction?
Hi All! Have been only getting in here occassionally lately ( usually on Friday's ) and I don't know if our friend in Israel reposted part of my love letter to him the other day which was in reply to his question about Gold correcting from present levels. This is probably about the same as others have said recently but I'm not sure as I'm not current with all the recent scuttlebut. Here's the excerpt: "..."...Gold
and a correction? Who knows?, but so far its holding up pretty well, since
apparently putting in a long-term bottom around $280. On the way up it
seemed $302 was resistance so that should now be pretty strong support, if
that cracks I would say that we might see a test of the $290 area again..."
"When fate hands us a lemon, let's try to make a lemonade."
---Dale Carnegie
Happy Trails!

(Fri May 01 1998 07:57 - ID#393224)
G'day Ted!!!
Amazing what you can get away with on your last day, Huh!!! C'mon Bart---ban him!! Took me a minute to stop laughing so I could post. BTW--don't leave a forwarding address and Nova Scotia can sing for their money. Have a good one, mate. All the best to you ( x2 ) !!!

(Fri May 01 1998 08:00 - ID#240120)
Yes, thank you Donald for that fine URL

For those who havn't read it yet, this is what the article says:

"WITH AN OUNCE OF GOLD a man could buy a fine suit of clothes in the time of Shakespeare, in that of Beethoven and Jefferson, in the Depression of the 1930s," according to one of the sources for our chart. That remained true in the 1980s, but it isn't true in the late 1990s. The suit standard now implies a gold price of perhaps $1,000 per ounce. A really good man's suit today can easily cost 4 ounces of goldsay, $1,250 at gold's mid-April high for the year to date. And that's without a vest, once standard.

Which is particularly interesting because the real gold price has been astoundingly stable since Shakespeare ( born 1564 ) . Even in the troubled 20th century, with inflation in the West on a scale unprecedented during the last 600 years ( FORBES, Jan. 12 ) , gold's wild oscillations averaged at $612, very close to its $639 average for the tranquil 19th century. And comfortably within its historic range.

Interesting point: Gold will have to rise by about $300 just to get back to the $627 average of the last two centuries.

Arguably, some of those 20th-century oscillations were due to the 1934-71 U.S. government fixing of the nominal gold price ( shown on our chart as a real price decline, because inflation ate away its purchasing power ) and the subsequent rebound.

Plus the gold price does seem to have staggered temporarily in response to supply shocksfor example, the Californian and Australian discoveries in the middle of the 19th century, the Yukon and South African discoveries at its close.

A supply shock is the favored explanation for our chart's most striking feature: the abrupt and permanent downward shift of the gold price in the early 16th century. That's when the gold stocks of the Aztecs and Incas were introduced to world markets, courtesy of the Spanish conquistadores, and the Western Hemisphere's gold mines began to make their presence felt.

A pleasingly convenient symbol: The price of gold reached its historic peak ( $2,400 in 1998 terms ) in 1492, when Columbus sailed the ocean, etc., etc.

Of course, past performance is no guarantee of future success. But compared with its post-Shakespeare norm, gold is unquestionably rather low. You could argue that recent technological improvements and demonetization have caused a ( permanent? ) supply shock.

Or you could take the situation at face value and agree with portfolio manager Caesar Bryan, whose Rye, N.Y.-based Gabelli Gold Fund is the best-performing gold fund this year. "This chart says cheap to me," he concludes.

(Fri May 01 1998 08:02 - ID#45173)
@Donald re: ID#26793 Historical price of gold
Great piece. Thx. I had some trouble with the chart, tho. It shows as cut off in my browser. Did you have this problem? I'd like to post it here. It's a classic.

(Fri May 01 1998 08:03 - ID#36156)
Prometheus (@T1) ALT 130 = 

(Fri May 01 1998 08:04 - ID#238422)
John Disney

It's amazing to me to realize I could screw up with
palladium on such a scale, although I know nothing
about it...

Platinum behaves all right, remember I said if it makes
above $450, then watch may go below $400...So, it
did, althought it even did not make it above $430, if I'm
correct. Participants ckickened out or got too greedy at $425.

But, this palladium! Kill me twice, but I just could
not imagine those "nevada people" talking it up to the
current price levels...Palladium is doomed, it must
correct now to some realistically imaginable levels...

If you got any palladium, sell it, buy platinum instead,
it's more precious anyway...

(Fri May 01 1998 08:05 - ID#262351)
multiple real time quotes
Where can I get advise on the best ( least expensive, fastest etc ) way of obtaining multiple real time quotes? Fidelity has real time quotes for ten stocks max which has been useful but I changed brokers.
Thank you

(Fri May 01 1998 08:12 - ID#224363)

Read the Forbes post yesterday when you provided it.

I know it has been said over and over again but I think much of the 'lost lustre' with gold has been the result of economic situation in the west over the last 15 years.

Gold is similar to religion. There are three camps.

1 ) Those that believe and will always believe
2 ) Those that aren't sure and wait for confirmation
3 ) Those that have absolutely no use for it

In the case of ( 1 ) , I think they are responsible for keeping the price from dropping any lower.

In the case of ( 2 ) , I think they will be responsible for the next huge rise when it comes and they pile on hedging their bets.

In the case of ( 3 ) , they'll either win or lose big time depending on wher e they have placed their paper money.

I too like to believe in continued good economic times but at some point the fun will stop and the pain will start.

I have a very good friend who is used to 10%-15% raises each year for the last four years ( she's a software developer ) . How long will this continue before the corporations say 'no more'. Now compare that to the guy working at the 7-11 down the street who makes minimum wage and hasn't seen a raise in 5 years.

At some point we will move towards equilibrium.

(Fri May 01 1998 08:14 - ID#284255)
EJ - Donald - here's the url for the historical chart

(Fri May 01 1998 08:18 - ID#426220)

sharefin ( EJ - Donald - here's the url for the historical chart )
What about the bottom half?

(Fri May 01 1998 08:18 - ID#224363)
farfel - re central banks and they announcements
I've thought about that often myself and have come to the following conclusion.


( 1 ) In the case of the Europeans, they wish the price to stay low until the Euro is established ( so they can buy more )


( 2 ) They truly believe that it does not serve the purpose it used to and this is their idea of a public service announcement.

I don't know the individuals personally so I can't really comment as to which one is more likely.

(Fri May 01 1998 08:20 - ID#26793)
Sharefin, PMF
I get a black bar across the bottom of the chart too. I see enough to say. "I don't care, I'm buying more" though.

(Fri May 01 1998 08:21 - ID#348169)
ALL - BTW - While I CAN get in, something I've wanted to post for some time now. A correction. ( Although it hardly matters now as we are far beyond that point in time. ) Almost two months ago I said, while Gold was hovering around $290-93, that as long as the 200 MA of about $287. held we were OK to stay long. Well it did hold and shortly afterwards we had the sharp rally that took us over $300 and beyond. My apology is that the MA I was watching and SHOULD have been quoting was the 90 day. Glenn e-mailed me and set me straight, but for some reason I couldn't log into Kitco to post a correction at the time. Now that I just got that off my chest everyone can go back to having a nice day!
"Never explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway." ---Elbert Hubbard

(Fri May 01 1998 08:21 - ID#324266)
Donald @ 6:58
A "good" suit ( fitted & w/o vest ) is about US$700 here in Boston, although you can go much higher. I have always taken this rule of thumb for gold's value to mean good, but not the best. I have also seen this value set against a new Winchester .30X.30.

(Fri May 01 1998 08:23 - ID#289357)
PMF - a fourth and fifth camp

4 ) Speculators who treat gold as any other commodity - buy when it is cheap, and sell when it is dear.

5 ) Momentum investors ( ?? ) who buy gold ( or anything else ) when it is going up, and sell when it is going down

BTW - group 5 appears to be in the majority.

Have a nice day. ( ;^ )

(Fri May 01 1998 08:25 - ID#224363)

You are absolutely correct and I can't believe that I missed those two groups. ( and today they are probably responsible for most of the movement ) .

(Fri May 01 1998 08:37 - ID#36156)
F* 3.5

(Fri May 01 1998 08:39 - ID#45173)
@ForkLift: You do your shopping at Filene's Basement? Me too.
That's the only way we're getting a good suit around here for $700.

(Fri May 01 1998 08:40 - ID#317193)
Ted 7:47
You have made my day if not my entire week. Tom

(Fri May 01 1998 08:48 - ID#410215)
..... Wise Words .....

Oris wrtote:

"If you got any palladium, sell it, buy platinum instead, It's more precious anyway..."

I thought this was worth repeating.


(Fri May 01 1998 08:58 - ID#410215)
..... $13 above average low for 12 years .....

Platinum is holding at 400 spot.

Palladium at 364.

This is support

Buck up little campers

Platinum is the buy of the year here.

You can buy Platinum Maple Leafs from Bart for delivery.


(Fri May 01 1998 09:01 - ID#410215)
..... OK, OK, OK .....

Since I have been rather one sided lately:

Gold is holding at 306 support.

Go Gold


(Fri May 01 1998 09:05 - ID#57232)
The Goldilocks Economy
sharefin: Thanks for finding the Oldman's bullish opinions about the markets -- short term. Now it all fits together for me -- anyway. The reason gold went down yesterday is because the economy is just right -- not too hot, and not to cold. The strong economic growth ( 4% GNP for first quarter? ) is bullish for gold and the equities markets, but the lack of inflation in labor cost indicators ( don't remember which ones ) is bearish. So -- gold goes down, and it has many times before with such news.

The big question is how Franck Veneroso's predictions will come true this year, as I don't think news of inflation will trigger the rise. We will need some kind of triggering news after the CB selling/loaning abates ( beginning May 98, according to FV as I recall ) .

So -- with one eye one the beach I am going to stay on the Gold bug Tsunami, even if we are miles out to sea, and there is nary a ripple.

Oldman is right about BC -- BC is a master at the PR business, though he clearly is more ruffled than the teflon president Ronald Reagan ever was.

(Fri May 01 1998 09:05 - ID#410215)
..... Thanks E .....

To parphrase Eldo:

Silver will break $6 today

Or not

I like it

Uh Huh

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 09:07 - ID#384350)
@EJ and all, yer 2:07 year2K
That's the way I see it. Banking runs before 2000.

However, remember the Fed is there to step in providing loans at the discount rate, so that when people withdraw their money the Fed will print ( wire transfer ) more, actual currency in circulation would explode.

I ask all, Will this illuminate inherent weaknesses in the fractional reserve system? Will this be inflationary or only if the money is spent like on tangibles?

(Fri May 01 1998 09:07 - ID#412172)
Ted & Mooney
Mooney, a most excellent quote, as far averages, IMHO, XAU going to 200 day 84.80, maybe lower before next pop up. Ted, you Krackle me up:- ) )

(Fri May 01 1998 09:07 - ID#410215)
..... Must Hurry .....

This post is only because I have never had five posts in a row. If I can only get this written before some other quick fingered poster grabs my spot.

(Fri May 01 1998 09:07 - ID#317193)
June contracts
Bye, bye June contracts! Stops hit. Now what about the Dec. K's. Time will tell.


(Fri May 01 1998 09:10 - ID#410215)
..... The record stands .....

This must not be my day

I will make no calls

I will trade no metals

I will bore nobody

Two out of three, huh?

Uh Huh

(Fri May 01 1998 09:10 - ID#240120)
Hello RJ !
Have you taken your "Viagra" this morning ?

(Fri May 01 1998 09:19 - ID#213265)
@the scene
RJ -- Or not.

(Fri May 01 1998 09:28 - ID#410215)
..... Damn Right, Or Not .....

Eldo -

You have given me inspiration.

I will call my clients

I will buy and sell metals

( no worries, I will not short gold )

This will happen


(Fri May 01 1998 09:28 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Mornin' all.

Silver below $6 today? Possibilities do abound. Buy it if you see it.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 09:29 - ID#384350)
Will the US resort to 2 currencies?
Obviously the US is worried of losing its reserve value. How many worthless Federal Reserve Notes are floating outside of US territory?

There has been talk for many years of a double standard currency. You would have normal green dollars for trade inside of the US and maybe Red dollars for trade outside of US borders. The Red dollars might be converted to green dollars at a rate 2 reds to one green for example.

There already is the EuroDollar market. I don't really understand it. If anyone can explain or provide a link, I thank you in advance.

(Fri May 01 1998 09:29 - ID#26793)
All: Thanks for the comments on the 650 year gold chart.
It sure looks like gold is a bargin here ( but it could still go lower ) The problem is in trying to pick an exact bottom. Notice how sharp the turns are. Just like the Dow/Gold ratio turns. We are close to a big one up.

(Fri May 01 1998 09:31 - ID#289357)
INPATHIQUE forecast update - looks like a few more down days, then up BIG!
long-term forecast:

close-up forecast:

(Fri May 01 1998 09:32 - ID#228100)
Anyone like the RCM Gold Coin?
Anyone have a preference for these Royal Canadian Mountie gold coins versus the good old Maple Leafs or other 99.9% coins? Im planning to keep these well beyond 2000, so the guaranteed value isnt an issue. ( Maybe I should know better than ask here. Next maybe Ill ask Web Hubbell for advice on how to minimize my taxes. )

Also, Ive shopped around the Internet for gold prices. The Kitco folks have the lowest prices when you consider shipping and other charges.

(Fri May 01 1998 09:32 - ID#23941)
Just curious if you got e-mail yesterday on Aussie Gold Producers

Old Soldier
(Fri May 01 1998 09:35 - ID#185274)
Midwesterner Apr 30 1998 23:22 - Buying Junk Silver
First, forget the nickels. They have no silver. There were some WWII period nickels with silver but not worth considering here. We are talking only pre-1965 U.S. dimes, quarters and halves.

.10X10=$1.00 face value
.25X10=$2.50 face value
.50X10=$5.00 face value
Total $8.50 face value
Say spot silver at $6.20
$6.20X.7=4.34 times face for approximate value of silver per face value dollar.
$8.50X4.34=$36.89 value of silver in the coins.

That gives you a start point for haggling. Pay more if you really want the coins. Offer less if you think the seller will take it. Use the .6 multiplier instead of .7 when the seller expresses little knowledge or interest in the value of the coins.

(Fri May 01 1998 09:38 - ID#342315)
Silverbaron re ECM Qtly
Thanx a lot for this. Looks like some really hot stuff. I'd like to see the big bulk sample when it's done. I've emailed Joe and Ian with new address-nothing back yet, Charlie

(Fri May 01 1998 09:40 - ID#340459)
Should I sell RANGY at 1.25 (Bought at 1.50) or hang on to it ?
Gawd, Life is depressing. All my PM stocks are trading less than what I paid for.

(Fri May 01 1998 09:41 - ID#288369)
Let the bastards eat my cake....I've got another one in the freezer. Let's undermine the "apparent" stability of gold as a prelude to the EMU meeting...I don't care I'm eating more. Rangy dangy..siss boom bah!

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 09:45 - ID#384350)
Spin Again on the en
Has anyone else noticed how the US press is spinning the truth about Dollar strength/weakness.

Bloomberg headline: Dollar climbs to 3-week high vs Yen on US economic strength.

The fact of the matter is that the dollar has been weaker in the past few weeks against European currencies, and that in fact it is that the en is weaker rather than that the Dollar is stronger.

The Financial Times headline is more appropriate: en weaker across the board.

PS Don't know if it has been mentioned, but Kutyn has a new article at golden eagle.

(Fri May 01 1998 09:46 - ID#284255)
Donald - Vronsky
Bad gif - will only download half of the picture. - Y2K anyone?

Did you see the comment on gold?
I thought we were in the beginnings of a bull?
SAR ( :- )

(Fri May 01 1998 09:51 - ID#335184)
Must read John Disney @ 04/30/19:53, 18:03, & 20:17 & 18:31 prior to making decision.
Take comfort. I am holding on & thinking about doubleing down. Apparently, the book value is ther & more to justify my hold.
GOOD LUCK & follow your own judgment .



(Fri May 01 1998 09:53 - ID#210235)
Thank you! It only works on the 10 key pad, but it works!
Namast. ( Is this culture or what? )

(Fri May 01 1998 09:56 - ID#339274)
Seasonal Silver potpourri
FWIW Silver will lead the complex to the upside until May 15.

(Fri May 01 1998 09:56 - ID#298259)
Echo Bay 1st Quarter Results...

(Fri May 01 1998 09:58 - ID#288369)
@Tar Baby.....Geeze I luv' that "nickname"...... buy orders are in, NO JOKE.......This is a fine day to place your buy orders ( lower ) ...pray you get 'em filled.....while taking a six hour trip in the car...ROAD TRIP! To where you say? I don't know...JUST AWAY! This will not be fun today....too bloody of a fight for me. Away to better things...GOOD LUCK GOLDBUGS!

(Fri May 01 1998 10:01 - ID#284255)
Bullion surprises with more gains

Gold added to overnight gains in early European trade yesterday ahead of the long holiday weekend as platinum group metals dulled gently.

Miners lead advance in chase after gold price
Australian stocks rose yesterday for the first time in five days as gold miners, such as Lihir Gold, followed an advance in the price of the precious metal.

Fears over further cuts push oil prices lower
World oil prices subsided on Wednesday, with disappointing petroleum producing countries worrying that their output may have to be trimmed further to rescue the sagging market.

Wall Street bubble faces growing risk
The United States stock market is a "classic bubble" and the risk of a significant correction is growing, according to economists in Tokyo.

Bad marches/riots in Japan, Sth Korea and Indonesia today.

All these riots are caused by rising unemployment and bancruptcy rate.

And these people have no Gov't assistance.

This is a growing trend worldwide.

(Fri May 01 1998 10:05 - ID#288369)
@Promey...I see you're up and at 'em.....
Thanks for the link to the Islamic Banking comments on speculation vs. investing....that was good stuff. Like SDRer eluded to a while back.....There should be a rule...BEFORE YOU CAN SELL SOMETHING, YOU MUST OWN IT. More market stability would be its result, and capital would flow to the proper points of need...not to the speculators.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 10:10 - ID#384350)
With the new Euro, what is to stop spain from printing a bunch of cash and giving it to their unemployed so that they can go on holiday in Germany and while there, pick up a Mercedes or 2? Spain runs a deficit, who cares? They just pass on the inflation to the other countries who ran smaller deficits.

What are they going to do? Tell Spain that they will be punished and won't be able to let their soccer team compete in the European championships in 2000? Seriously, what kind of punishment would stop it? A fine? Okay, they'll just print more of the stuff? Really!

(Fri May 01 1998 10:11 - ID#246224)
Will we touch 301 and then ..
rocket ahead???

(Fri May 01 1998 10:12 - ID#342315)
Sharefin re Prem
I watch a live site by on Dow with tick, trin etc on R and the prem. I wonder do you have pertinent numbers on prem for turns? Many thanx, Charlie

(Fri May 01 1998 10:12 - ID#410215)
..... What's Your Line? .....


You're in the music biz?

In LA, Right?

E-mail me, If you would. I have some studio questions.


(Fri May 01 1998 10:16 - ID#339274)
FWIW If you like platinum.This might be the stock to own.

(Fri May 01 1998 10:19 - ID#284255)
CHINA: Fall in profits may herald slowdown
Requires free registration.
Profits of China's industrial companies declined by 83 per cent in the first
two months of this year as inventories continued to pile up, raising
concerns over an unexpectedly swift slowdown in Asia's most robust economy.
"The deterioration in the efficiency of companies is even worse than we
expected," said Qiu Xiaohua, chief economist at the State Statistical Bureau.
Economists said the new evidence of weak domestic demand in China
was disturbing against the backdrop of the slump in regional growth
rates. Unless the government could reverse the trend quickly, they said,
there was a risk that pressure for devaluation - so far resisted by Chinese
leaders - could resurface, fuelling fears about a "new leg" to the Asian crisis.
The sharp decline in corporate profits indicated that successive months
of deflation and scattered price wars was taking a heavy toll.
China's response to the gathering gloom has not been to slam the breaks
on economic reform, but rather to accelerate the transition of state
assets into private hands.
But inherent in the privatisation process is a rise in unemployment, which
presents authorities with a dilemma. "Growth below 5 per cent could
create a great deal of social unrest,"

(Fri May 01 1998 10:19 - ID#288369)
Recording facilities in OK. ( only ) , small publishing venture in Nashville, indie record co. in OK., but my "real" investments are in oil production and ranching. Don't have anything going in L.A.

(Fri May 01 1998 10:21 - ID#317193)
June contracts-dah!
Apparently, and I mean apparently, my stops were not triggered yet. Must have hit before the US market opened. I love brokers-right!

Not talking about you RJ.


(Fri May 01 1998 10:26 - ID#210235)
If you have time for limited reading today, be sure to catch SDRer's of 00:21.

(Fri May 01 1998 10:27 - ID#318183)
I Just bought MORE rangy - It is summer here - I can put off the new shoes till fall anyway! - I hope this doesn't turn out like that Steve Martin movie where he loses everything and talks to himself? ( isn't that what I'm already doing? lol )

(Fri May 01 1998 10:31 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Lakefoil -- HAR!!!

(Fri May 01 1998 10:34 - ID#284255)
This site provides the daily fair value for the PREM.
Also buy/sell levels.
Which always seem to do the opposite? - Futures manipulation.

The premium is constantly eroding as the contract runs out.

Investors leave shelter of Swiss franc
The Swiss franc, for years a safe haven from worries over European monetary union, hit a six-month low against the D-Mark yesterday as Emu looked set to be sealed.

Emu's founder members will be officially chosen at the summit starting in Brussels today, and even the most timid investors decided they had little further need to shelter in the Swissie.

However, the market was quiet and volumes low yesterday because of Japanese Golden Week and the wait for the Emu summit. Today could be even duller, as many continental European markets are closed for May Day. The market believes the Bank of Japan may intervene to support the yen again in thin markets in coming days.

(Fri May 01 1998 10:34 - ID#348286)
@Go Ahead, Make My day, Yes?
OK, the ECB boneheads meet this weekend, and appartently try to reach an agreement on Gold etc.
Go ahead, decide yourselves to hold little Gold.
You do not care that your own assets will erode, yes?
Many will buy from you at much lower price, yes?
Many around the world are hungry for bright bars at very low price, yes?
Many around world will make rich bank accounts on currency which
has young history and very little hard asset hidden inside
big big vault, Yes?

(Fri May 01 1998 10:36 - ID#288369)
@SRDer....(thanks again Promey).......
ABSOLUTE.BRILLIANCE@OO:21 A diamond of a post.

(Fri May 01 1998 10:38 - ID#287280)
Gianni Dioro--Euro
Eveillard ( SocGen ) said that the Euro will certainly "happen", but
may not last more than two or three years. Sounds reasonable.

(Fri May 01 1998 10:38 - ID#348286)

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 10:38 - ID#384350)
Farfel, yer 04:25, point 1
Mr Farfel, Your point about CB's disseminating bearish info on a metal that they might wish to sell is well taken. There is something more to it than meets the eye.

I made similar remarks months back about IBM, who has recently made timely announcements during market turmoil about share buybacks, etc.

I asked, Why would a company announce with much fanfare that they plan on buying back a large number of shares, thus making their future repurchases more expensive, all to the detriment of existing shareholders? Wouldn't the company want to buy back at lower prices?

I ask now, Would Warren Buffett make a stupid announcement to all the world like, "We think XYZ Company is undervalued, so we are planning on buying 1-2 Billion dollars worth of shares over the course of the next year", only to have the price rise out of his perceived value? Of course not!

We are seeing manipulation plain and simple.

(Fri May 01 1998 10:39 - ID#20748)
China's Nukes Target the U.S.

(Fri May 01 1998 10:40 - ID#348286)

(Fri May 01 1998 10:41 - ID#318183)
I think silver is at 6.16 - why all the bad quotes these last few days?

(Fri May 01 1998 10:43 - ID#351224)
Gianni Of Gold / IBM from John Crudele
YOU gotta love IBM.
Even after being criticized for creative accounting recently in a major financial publication, the computer company is still playing tricks with its quarterly results.

"The real bottom line," said Forbes in its Dec. 29, 1997 issue, "isn't as rosy as the reported bottom line. Not only is the computer colossus lagging its industry in growth, but much of the growth it has shown comes from financial shuffling rather than fundamental improvement."

After that criticism, did IBM get any more cautious? Noooo!

IBM's stock rose sharply last week even after the company reported that its first-quarter profits dropped to $1.04 billion, a decline of 13 percent from the year-earlier period. Wall Street had been warned by IBM that the results would be lower, so stock analysts - who are about as objective as Yankees fans when Boston comes into town - shrugged off the number.

Analysts concluded that IBM's profits weren't "a disaster" and some even raised their recommendation on the stock.

How'd IBM get the results into non-disaster territory?

If IBM hadn't conjured up a 10 percent drop in taxes, its gross profit would have fallen 35 percent and not just 2.1 percent, according to a source of mine who analyzed the numbers. That means IBM's earnings without the lower tax rate and the repurchase of gobs of stock would have been only 90 cents instead of $1.06 a share.

Now those numbers WOULD have shocked analysts.

The stock buyback - $1.8 billion of stock - was extraordinary since the company made only slightly more than a billion dollars in profits. In other words, if IBM has to continue saving its profits from disaster through stock buybacks, the company will be doing an inadvertent leveraged buyout.

Forbes noticed these stock buybacks in the previous period. "From 1995 through this year, IBM will have bought in 181 million common shares, reducing its common capitalization by about 15 percent. Some of the $16 billion for repurchases came from earnings, but some of it was, in effect, financed with borrowings."

Is this sort of managed earnings good? Should IBM keep its per share profits up by continually reducing the number of shares outstanding? And just how is IBM managing to reduce its tax rate in the nick of time?

Stay tuned for the "The Secrets Behind IBM's Tricks."

Pressure appears to be increasing for the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates.

There have already been a number of influential European newspapers that have discussed the U.S. stock market bubble and how the Fed hasn't done anything to prevent this dangerous situation. And market watchers don't think this sudden fixation on our markets is a coincidence, but rather foreign governments' way of urging the Fed to tighten.

And Eisuke Sakakibara, Japan's ( Mr. Yen ) vice minister for international affairs at the Ministry of finance, was quoted as saying the U.S. economy is peaking. "I won't say there's a bubble in the U.S. stock market, he chuckled. "It's not for me to say that."

In not commenting on the bubble, Sakakibara was doing just that - commenting on the bubble.

Another hint to Alan Greenspan? You bet. And coming from Japan, which holds all of those Washington IOUs, it's a warning Greenspan should heed.

The next Federal Reserve meeting on interest rates is May 19.

(Fri May 01 1998 10:43 - ID#318183)
I am the rangy bid - lol
If anyone is interested I AM HOLDING rangy up at the 1 1/4 bid - please I need help - or sell to me at 1 1/4 -

(Fri May 01 1998 10:44 - ID#287280)
Studio.R, Prometheus, Thank you both very much...
I think it is important that we understand that gold can
function as a POLITCAL WEAPON for those who do not 'buy into'
fiat/debt forever ( and boy, it is FOREVER huh {:- ) )

(Fri May 01 1998 10:45 - ID#284255)
JTF - absence of dippies?
The markets seem unenthusiastic.
The rally off the lows in October,
Was full of unbridled enthusiasm.
Not so this time.

A cautious note on the traders floor perhaps?

With the recent distribution and weak internals;
This market needs fresh blood,
Huge inflows of capital,
Just to keep it's head up.

Perhaps its just getting tired.

Europe is in a very tight lockstep pattern;
With most indices short term,
At the lows of their cycles.
They must lift their heads or fail.

Volatility and uncertainty is entering the global arena.
A good time to be on the fence,
Waiting the coming direction.

(Fri May 01 1998 10:49 - ID#57232)
Japan problems
Donald: Any idea whether the drop in reserves is before April 1, when they were pumping up the markets, or is it getting worse? I wonder, just how many US dollar reserves do they still have. I would guess that in a real crisis the dollara would go first. I don't know if they still have enough to create another run on the US dollar, like what happened in 1987. I think total US dollars/treasuries outside our borders is at least 1.5 trillion. Comments?

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 10:50 - ID#384350)
SDRer, Euro currency won't exist till 2002
Are you aware that they don't even plan on issuing currency until Jan 1, 2002? From Jan 1, 1999 it will be only in the form of digital or checkbook form.

Is this because they don't want to print the stuff if it doesn't work out?

Or will it be an Experiment in a Cashless Society envisioned by immoral bureaucrats and bankers who thrive on the fiat-based fractional reserve system?

(Fri May 01 1998 10:54 - ID#317193)
June contracts-dah,dah!
June stops did hit but contracts sold .50 higher than the stop-yesterday! Glad it wasn't limit down.

Now we watch this new gold market together,Yes?


(Fri May 01 1998 10:55 - ID#287280)
New bizarre indicator--

Maddy Albright is putting on weight at an alarming rate. Might one argue that this is indicative of Administration stress?

In FT, front page pic, Albright with Hashimoto, caption: Albright explaining that US government comments about Japan WERE NOT criticism, but helpful comments from a concerned friend. Oh YEAH!

This has been a MEOW post. {:- ) )

(Fri May 01 1998 11:00 - ID#284255)
I think the Japanese have sold off approx 10% of their holdings.
John Crudele has had a few articles on the subject recently.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:02 - ID#26793)
I agree with most of the points of your 021 post. I would complain that the Chinese leaders of the past and future as well as those of Islam and elsewhere will fail even with gold as a currency if ownership is no open to every man and woman. If the leaders of the world agree that gold is so important that it can only be used in international settlements, as did the U.S. from 1934 to 1971, it will fail. Gold must be universaly exchangeable, person to person, anywhere on the planet. Gold is a store of value. We only hold it until we have enough to exchange it for the things we really want; homes, education, land etc. If governments are only going to hoard it for themselves, for ego powerplays like silly children, to decorate their thrones, then it is useless.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:03 - ID#20135)
url previously posted by SDRer

January 1, 1999

* conversion rates are irrevocably fixed andvarious legislations come into force, notablyon the legal status of the euro

* definition and execution of the single monetary policy in euro ESCB [3]

* foreign exchange operations start in euro ESCB [3]

* new public debt issued in euro Member States, European Investment Bank, Commission

January 1, 1999 to January 1,
2002 ( at the latest )
* changeover to the euro by the banking and finance industry

* assist the whole economy in an orderly changeover Commission and Member States

January 1, 2002 ( at the latest )

* start circulation of euro banknotes ESCB [3]

* start circulation of euro coins Member States

* complete changeover to the euro in public administration Member States

July 1, 2002 ( at the latest )

*cancel the legal tender status of national banknotes and coins Member States, ESCB [3]

(Fri May 01 1998 11:03 - ID#287280)
Gianni Dioro--Truly, I doubt that THEY know! {:-)
'Regular folks' could not live in the decision-sludge that
covers--at least knee-deep--the EMU bureaucracy.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:05 - ID#318183)
royal canadian mint ad
I notice the ad here for royal canadian mint - with gold below 310 what is the small print on it?

(Fri May 01 1998 11:06 - ID#287280)
Donald my friend,
The longest journey begins with one small step. {:- )

(Fri May 01 1998 11:08 - ID#26793)
@JTF: Japan reserves, different post shows Feb, Mar, Apr trend.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:09 - ID#57232)
Thanks for the warning
sharefin: The bearish news coming out of SEAsia worries me -- the markets may still be vulnerable. On the other hand, one could argue that the 'lock step' is in preparation for a short-term upward blowoff, and the lack of a bigger downturn is bullish. This is the perfect situation for spoos options/futures trading, as the percentage of assets at risk is much less. Unfortunately I am still inexperienced in such trades, and will only risk 'funny money'. Perhaps next year, after some more successful trades -- .

Have you been watching market volume/price trends? I forgot to check last night. Is that bullish or bearish in your mind? Another wild card is interest rates. I doubt AG will do anything preemptively due to Japans weak situation.

All this uncertainty is good practice for the Gold bug Tsunami, as we will have to think on our feet in the midst of alot of froth.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:13 - ID#210235)
Yours on Schroedinger's cats, or kitties, or paper clips of a couple of days back. STILL LOL!


(Fri May 01 1998 11:13 - ID#26793)
I remember the 1963? 1964? press conference of Lyndon Johnson when he announced that silver would be removed from U.S. coins. He said "silver is too valuable to be used as money". We had been walking backwards since 1933, took another step back then, another in 1971 and now are at the edge of the cliff. You are right, time to take a step forward.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:16 - ID#401460)
The Fed

Friday May 1, 10:50 am Eastern Time

US Treasuries slip on talk Fed checks forex rates

*US Treasuries off post-NAPM highs in forex intervention fear. *Mkt talk Fed checking forex rates, but Fed says ``no
comment.'' *Impact greatest in bills, 3-mo rates jump 5 bps in 45 mins. *Long end outperforming but off highs,
profit-taking seen. *Traders report foreign central bank selling.

And they drained some liquidity.



(Fri May 01 1998 11:16 - ID#210235)
Donald and SDRer
GET AWAY FROM THAT CLIFF! Two original thinkers. A rarity beyond words.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:18 - ID#256326)
the wonderful era of emu

(Fri May 01 1998 11:21 - ID#324266)
SDRer @ 00:21
I liked your thoughtful, provocative and plausible post a lot. You've got the player mix right. Japan's forthcoming actions and the dinar make it all very complex, and the Euro will not make it to global reserve currency status, but may serve as a bridge to the real thing by crushing the dollar and allowing China or some alliance based upon the dinar to become dominant.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:23 - ID#341189)
Donald and SDRer
I too remember Johnson's statement of the obvious. The market silver price for coins was approaching the face value of the coins - what was it? $1.27 or so? An economist friend of mine had been warning me for a year to stash coins. Alas, I thought it was small potatoes. He, however made a tidy sum.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:24 - ID#20135)

Date: Fri May 01 1998 11:16
HighRise ( The Fed ) ID#401460:

"And they drained some liquidity. "

Highrise, it must be serious because the NEVER ( almost NEVER ) drain liquidity.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:25 - ID#20135)
Highrise, it must be serious because they NEVER ( almost NEVER ) drain liquidity.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:26 - ID#356204)
junk silver
RJ here is the WSJ quotes for 90% junk silver

Wed close 4296

Thursday's close ask 4353

Do you have Monex's ?

(Fri May 01 1998 11:27 - ID#342315)
Sharefin re your info
Thanx a bunch. This is good. As I watch I see the prem slides as Dow rises and prem is pushed up as Dow slides- Trade by Trade. To take advantage of this PPT, can you trade the prem or do you have to trade SP contract?? It looks like a "push button" trade program with reliable source could give some good results. Can you refine me on this? Again, Many thanx, Charlie

(Fri May 01 1998 11:29 - ID#345176)
A 52 wk comparison of XAU and JGAI gold indeces

From their 52-wk lows to present:

XAU up 40.7%

JGAI up 61.6 %

It appears that the JGAI has outperformed the XAU by 51.3%,

but is this TRUE?
The JGAI is quoted in local currency.
An index could be misleading if currency fluctuations
are taken into account.
How do we get a real value of the JGAI in $ terms?

The Hermit
(Fri May 01 1998 11:32 - ID#369247)
@ SDRer & Donald
Great posts today! I agree with Prometheus' assessment. You are indeed original thinkers!

SDRer, your posts are always very thought provoking.

Thank you!

The Hermit

(Fri May 01 1998 11:34 - ID#25295)
any news? making a good size move down.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:34 - ID#26793)
London morning precious metals comments.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:36 - ID#351224)
A WWW Monument to EuroMadness

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 11:37 - ID#384350)
My Vision
I just had a vision. This takes place in the not so distant future:

The stock market goes to 10 million and eventually shuts down, because the same thing is happening to the dollar as what happened to the Reichmark.

Massive rioting and looting in every city in the USofA. Washington is burning.

Clinton, Greenspan, and Rubin feign their own suicides/deaths and hop on a military plane to So. America. This plane is part of a convoy filled with Gold, guns, and artwork.

30 years later, reports surface that numerous identical-looking men in their mid 20's have been appearing in various Bordellos throughout Brasil.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:39 - ID#351224)
Good Euro URL's
1. Banco de Portugal
2. Bank of England
3. Banque de France
4. De Nederlandsche Bank
5. Deutsche Bundesbank
6. Oesterreichische Nationalbank
7. Suomen Pankki
8. Sveriges Riksbank
1. Esprit Programme
2. European Commission
3. European Parliament
1. Austrian Ministry of Finance
2. Belgian Federal Government
3. Dutch Ministry of Finance
4. Dutch National Forum
5. Finnish Ministry of Finance
6. French Ministry of Economic Affairs, Finance and Industry
7. French Minting Authority
8. German Federal Ministry of Finance
9. German Federal Ministry of Justice
10. Irish Ministry of Finance
11. Irish Revenue Commissioners
12. Italian Ministry of Treasury, Budget and Planning
13. Luxembourg Ministry of Finance
14. Portuguese Ministry of Finance
15. Spanish Ministry of Economic Affairs and Finance
16. Swedish Ministry of Finance
17. UK Treasury
1. Association Cambiste Internationale
2. Belgian Bankers Association
3. French Banking Association
4. German Association of Cooperative Banks
5. German Banking Association
6. International Swaps and Derivatives Association
7. Italian Association of Cooperative Banks
8. Italian Association of Private Banks
1. ABN Amro Bank
2. Allgemeine Sparkasse
3. Allied Irish Banks
4. Anhyp Banque
5. Bacob Banque
6. Baden-Wrttembergische Bank
7. Banca Commerciale Italiana
8. Banca di Credito Cooperativo di Masiano
9. Banca di Credito Cooperativo di Monastier
10. Banca di Roma
11. Banca Popolare FriulAdria
12. Banco Ambrosiano
13. Banco Bilbao Vizcaya
14. Banco Central Hispano
15. Bank Austria
16. Bank Nederlandse Gemeenten
17. Bank of Ireland
18. Bankgesellschaft Berlin
19. Banque et Caisse dEpargne de lEtat de Luxembourg
20. Banque Financire Groupama
21. Banque Internationale  Luxembourg
22. Banque Nationale de Paris
23. Bayerische Hypobank
24. BBL
25. BRED Banque Populaire
26. Caixa Galicia
27. Caixa Geral de Depsitos
28. Caja de Ahorros de la Inmaculada
29. Caja de Ahorros de Ontynyent
30. Caja de Catalua
31. Caja Espaa
32. Caja Segovia
33. CARIPLO
34. Cassa di Risparmio di Udine e Pordenone
35. Cassa Rurale di Strembo, Bocenago e Caderzone
36. CISF Bank
37. Cofinoga
38. Commerzbank
39. Crediop
40. Crdit Agricole Centre France
41. Crdit Commercial de France
42. Crdit Industriel et Commercial
43. Crdit Lyonnais
44. Crdit Mutuel
45. Credit Suisse
46. Credit Suisse Asset Management
47. Creditanstalt
48. Den Danske Bank
49. Deutsche Bank
50. Deutsche Bank Espaa
51. DG Bank of Germany
52. Die-erste
53. Dresdner Bank
54. Fortis
55. Frankfurter Sparkasse 1822
56. Friesland Bank
57. Gnrale de Banque
58. GZB Bank
59. Hamburger Bank von 1861
60. Hamburgische Landesbank Girozentrale
61. IKB Deutsche Industriebank AG
62. ING
63. Istituto Bancario San Paolo di Torino
64. JP Morgan
65. Kredietbank
66. Kreissparkasse Gelnhausen
67. Kreissparkasse Hannover
68. Kreissparkasse Ludwigsburg
69. La Caixa
70. LG-Bank
71. Mediocredito Centrale
72. Merita Bank
73. Naspa Bank
74. Openbank
75. P.S.K. ( Postbank - Austria )
76. Postbank ( Germany )
77. Postbank ( Netherlands )
78. Postipankki
79. Quelle Bank
80. Rabobank
81. Raiffeisenbanken Gruppe
82. Socit Gnrale
83. Socit Gnrale Deutschland
84. Sparkasse Aachen
85. Sparkasse Essen
86. Sparkassen im Internet
87. Stadt Sparkasse Dsseldorf
88. Steiermrkische Bank und Sparkassen
89. Svenska Handelsbanken
90. Ulster Bank
91. Unibank
92. Vereinsbank
93. Volksbank Frstenfeldbruck eG
94. Westdeutsche Landesbank
95. WGZ Bank
1. Deutsche Terminbrse
2. LIFFE
3. MATIF
4. Sicovam
5. Societ per i servizi bancari
1. Associao Portuguesa das Empresas de Contabilidade
2. Association for the Monetary Union of Europe
3. Cambres de Comer, Indstria i Navegaci de Catalunya
4. Camera di Commercio di Milano
5. Chambre de Commerce de Lille
6. Confesercenti
7. Conseil National du Patronat Franais
8. Dublin Chamber of Commerce
9. Eurochambres
10. Eurocommerce
11. Fdration des Experts Comptables Europens
12. Foment del Treball Nacional
13. Forfas
14. Groupe Equinoxe
15. Handelskammer Dsseldorf
16. Handwerkskammer Region Stuttgart
17. Irish Business and Employers Confederation
18. Patronat Catal Pro Europa
19. Wirtschaftskammer sterreich
1. Argandoa Asesores
2. Askeaton
3. Cap Gemini
4. Coopers & Lybrand Germany
5. Coopers & Lybrand UK
6. KPMG
7. Numris
8. Orgaconseil/LArgus
9. TreasuryLog
10. Varial http:/
1. 01-informatique
2. Association pour la modernisation de ladministration par les autoroutes de linformation
3. Baan
4. Bloomberg News
5. Computer Weekly
6. Computing Services & Software Association of the United Kingdom
7. Cosmos
8. debis Systemhaus
9. Euro Special Interest Group
10. IBM
11. Internet Microtec
12. I.T. Works Belgium Online
13. Microsoft
14. Project Euro
15. SAP
16. Skylla
17. Softlab
18. Xinotech
19. Y2K Solutions
1. AGEFI
2. ANSA
3. Crdit Commercial de France
4. DM
5. EBN
6. Economist Intelligence Unit
7. ECU-euro
8. Euro: moneda unica para Europa
9. Euromoney
10. European Bond Commission of EFFAS
11. Expansin
12. Financial Times
13. Il Sole 24 Ore
14. Institutions Europennes & Finance
15. Tijd
1. Association des Investisseurs pour lEuro
2. Centre Nationale de Recherche Scientifique
3. Dunnet
4. El euro y el dinero negro
5. EmuNet
7. Istituto Ugo La Malfa
8. Montgomery, Tursa & Konur
9. Verlag Recht und Praxis
10. WEKA Fachverlag fr Geschftsfhrung und Management
11. ZDF TV

(Fri May 01 1998 11:40 - ID#26793)
Russia-Stillwater news. Dated yesterday, must have missed it.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:40 - ID#28593)
Donald has--as Donald always does--brought forward a core point--

The responsibility lies with us--real people. In all my readings about nationalcurrency histories, it became evident that more often than not, the gold stopped at the merchant class. Business demands a standard?

There was a time in my countrys history, when people handled their money;one suspects that divorcing people from that tactile experience makes it easier to debase the value of a national currency.

Someone, a few days ago, mentioned an old song called 16 tons and, unhappily, that is where Americans are; we owe our souls to the company store.

Joseph E. Boling, ANA wrote: The economic and political strengths of
a nation are supported by and reflected in its currency system. A serious student will examine the history of the currency and finances of a nation to obtain insights into the national personality.

Perhaps its time we took a considering look at this. Are we satisfied
with what our currency and finances say about US?

(Fri May 01 1998 11:40 - ID#284255)
You have to trade one of the indices.
SP500, SP100, Nasdaq or the Dow.

There are a few traders of the contracts on this site.
And one and all trade them on Avid.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:41 - ID#347235)
@ SDRer
How can you tell Maddy Alldyke is gaining weight? She was always chubby and those clothes of hers make it worse anyway. Go Gole Bidness. Damn my Texas accent is BAAAACK

(Fri May 01 1998 11:42 - ID#285121)
What's wrong with this picture ?
U.S. Exports down, U.S. manufacturing down, GDP up. What's wrong with this picture? One disagrees with the other two. It is a Government supplied figure. HELLO !

(Fri May 01 1998 11:46 - ID#26793)
Recent Newmont Mining news

(Fri May 01 1998 11:46 - ID#194311)
Universal Laws...of thermodynamics, markets, life...etc
1 ) You can't win you can only ever get even

2 ) Actually you can't really get even

3 ) You can't get out of the game

(Fri May 01 1998 11:47 - ID#266105)

aurophile ( the wonderful era of emu ) ID#256326:

Bingo. How does one bet against this thing, here/now,
at the point of peak confidence.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:51 - ID#342315)
Donald re XAU trades
I finally got a live ( 5min ) chart on XAU. I have kept your comments about getting in and out by the numbers. Could you please recap this for me since I now have the chart, at your convenience. Thanx Charlie

(Fri May 01 1998 11:54 - ID#324266)
JSE closed for Worker's Day as approved by Parliament.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:55 - ID#284255)
JTF - Japanese bonds

Don't be caught out by euro>
Requires free registration.

In a survey carried out by the Federation of Small Businesses ( FSB )
among 4,000 owner-managers, making it one of the biggest carried out
on the issue, 33% expect the single currency to have a damaging effect on their business.

Despite the growth in awareness just 18% of the owner-managers polled
have considered preparing for the introduction of the euro.

Only one in 20 of the owner-managers polled has decided to buy new
equipment to deal with the currency conversion, although this figure
rises to 6% among those involved in importing and exporting.

"By the middle of 1999, 40% of invoices will be in the euro. How will
small firms cope with that? It seems that all the benefits are for the large
companies and none for small firms."

"Now there is a growing fear on the part of small firms that this is bad
news for them," he says. "The latest fear is that a lot of multinationals
will insist on the euro."
Global view vital as world shrinks

GLOBALISATION is the process driving the development of global
markets. Formulating a global strategy means taking into account the
way aspects of the process impact on particular industries and
companies within them.

The world is shrinking and success in the new economic order needs
more than a national or even international perspective. It demands a
global approach. This in turn must inform a global strategy that is
responsive to what is happening around the world.

If you are tempted to assume this applies only to the large conglomerates
and corporations, think again.

Thinking globally is equally important for small and medium-sized
manufacturers and service providers. It is a way of looking at your
business, at the forces that influence it, and at the potential for
differentiating it from your competitors. A single site in one country may
indeed be the effective and efficient location for your business, but
should not restrict your vision.

Being international is not the same as being global. A global company is
one that has a view of the global marketplace in which it operates and
has a strategy that helps it not only to maximise the opportunities but
also to minimise the threats.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:55 - ID#382234)

To All: Does anyone know how much gold is disolved in seawater and by what process it can be removed? I know it is very expensive to do but I understand that it has been done before. Would this not put a theoritical top on the value of gold? I also remember vaugely that the quantity of gold in the world's oceans is enormous compared to the above ground stockpile.

(Fri May 01 1998 11:58 - ID#284255)

(Fri May 01 1998 11:59 - ID#246224)
Service sector accounts for 70% of GDP. Only 25 or 30% of our business is export oriented. Our manufacturing base is, I recall, about 15 or 20% of total GDP.

(Fri May 01 1998 12:00 - ID#41170)
how to prevent pain???
Date: Fri May 01 1998 09:40
Midas__A ( Should I sell RANGY at 1.25 ( Bought at 1.50 ) or hang on to
it ? ) ID#340459:
Gawd, Life is depressing. All my PM stocks are trading less than what I paid for.

Midas- that is jest the way this market works. Most can't endure
the PAIN that it takes to WIN in this market. HANG IN THERE. Many times
I have bought gold shares that went down 50% before they went up
100 times what I paid for them. IT AIN'T EASY GETTIN RICH!

Tally Ho

(Fri May 01 1998 12:04 - ID#213265)
@the scene
SDR -- 16 tons; Ought to be our current national anthem!

(Fri May 01 1998 12:04 - ID#41170)
NATCHEZ- If gold in sea water bothers you maybe you ought to look
to some other market.

Tally Ho

(Fri May 01 1998 12:05 - ID#342315)
Sharefin and any traders on Avid
How about a website for Avid. Many thanx

(Fri May 01 1998 12:06 - ID#57232)
Goldilocks Economy?
sharefin, all: Oldman made another interesting comment -- namely that the downturns don't last as long as they did last year. That with the apparent book cooking that is going on -- both corporate ( IBM -- John Crudele article ) and federal ( GDP up but exports, production down ) . I could have sworn JCI was going up, but I do not have access. Hence, I think we are passing into a blowoff phase. So -- as Oldman might put it -- you don't want to stand in front of this ( bull ) market while BC is in control.

I don't know how long the Goldilocks market will stick around, but I'm guessing Oldman is probably right -- months, perhaps, unless Europes markets reveal a renaissance. Eventually we will have a wakeup call, and it will not be pleasant.

By the way, I'm now down to 30% equities, 70% cash. I will probably regret not having more equity investments, but at least I can sleep at night.

Warren Buffet may have something interesting to say at his ( stockhoders? ) meeting on Monday. It may be a bit of a wakeup call too, but it will probably be very carefully worded.

(Fri May 01 1998 12:09 - ID#20135)
Just a quick thought...
How is it that the major oil companies keep making so much money even with the price of oil so low in terms of the USDolar...

Maybe because they aren't trading ( buying/selling ) it in USdollars, but maybe using contracts with references to Gold Francs.

I suppose I should mention that comex eligible gold stocks fell 4,723 ounces yesterday. April 21, 1998 it was 169,237ounces, April 13, 1998 it was 159,146. What was it a year ago today, two years ago today???

477,406 13,955 0 13,955 4,723 496,084
167,035 0 0 0 -4,723 162,312
644,441 13,955 0 13,955 0 658,396

(Fri May 01 1998 12:10 - ID#284255)
Unwary can bank on nasty bug

Bank of Queensland managing director, Mr John Dawson, warned
yesterday that the ignorance of some suppliers and customers to the
millenium bug issue would almost certainly impact on the bank's operations.

But Mr Dawson said the major worry was over the possible knock-on
effect from suppliers and customers which were not as prepared.

The bank is developing a contingency plan to ensure continued
operation of its critical systems in cases where suppliers are not compliant.

"We cannot give a categorical assurance that the Year 2000 problem
will not affect the bank's operations," Mr Dawson said.

"We will never be able to certify that the whole of our organisation is
Year 2000 compliant when there's the potential for non-compliance from
those companies we deal with.

"If they are not Year 2000 compliant in the disciplines we are outsourcing
to them, you won't be writing about the collapse of the Bank of
Queensland, you'll be writing about the collapse of the financial services industry."

Mr Dawson said January 1, 2000 was shaping as "a drop-dead date" for
financial service providers who considered compliance issues a low priority.

Australian business lags on Y2K

A major player in the year 2000 software industry has singled out St
George Bank, Coles Myer Ltd and NRMA as three reasons why
Australian business should not feel too smug about its progress on the
computer date problem.

"But then I discovered Australia's fifth largest bank had just finished
assessing 35m lines of mainframe code that needs to be fixed," Mr
Stabler said during a presentation at CA World in New Orleans on Monday.

Mr Stabler told his US audience that Australia's leading retailer had only
recently completed its Y2K assessment, while the country's second
largest insurance company had fixed less than 10 per cent of its mainframe code.

"Some days I wake up and wonder if it's real and, if it is, how did we let it
happen. But I keep on hearing of applications that are failing as a result."

He said the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, Dr Alan Greenspan,
had estimated that the problem would result in a .5 per cent slowdown
by the year 2000. "Many in the industry think a 5 per cent slowdown is a better guess,"

(Fri May 01 1998 12:14 - ID#246224)
A truly miniscule amount of gold is dissolved in each gallon of sea water. Part of the reason is that gold is inert chemically and so does not bind with oxygen or other gases ( doesn't corrode or rust ) .

If you evaporated all the water from a gallon of sea water you would be left with a teaspoon of salt and minerals, among them would be gold. Very energy intensive process ( force evaporation ) . Then you would be left with leaching out the gold with cyanide or some other higly corrosive agent. It would be like any typical extraction process at a mine from that point on. The question would be "what is the grams per tonne of gold" at that point.

The fact is there is plenty of very low grade ore to be processed which is hundreds or thousands of times more gold rich than dissolved minerals in sea water. Before any one would ever consider extracting gold from sea water they will reprocess all of these tailings many times over with newer and newer technology.

That is the technical side of it. On the social side of it gold is worth whatever it is worth in trade for other things. The relative currency price is meaningless. We seem to have persuaded ourselves that 1 ) the financial system proper ( digital transactions in the world-wide banking system ) and 2 ) paper money are in and of themselves something of value. I suppose that is practicable enough to 'bank' on until it doesn't work anymore. Y2K certainly threatens this house of cards in a systemic and world-wide way.

(Fri May 01 1998 12:15 - ID#345176)
I guess my 11:29 is not worth answering.. but a site for RandGold

(Fri May 01 1998 12:15 - ID#431263)
It ain't easy getting rich? Just buy some more Vanguard S&P 500 Index fund and hold it forever! : )

GOLD WILL BOTTOM @ $305 basis June and will resume its NEW BULL MARKET starting by Wednesday of next week! The old adage to 'sell in May and walk away' will GRIP this equity market after Memorial Day. The oils stocks are telling us that the BOTTOM FOR OIL IS IN! HIGHER PRICES AHEAD!

(Fri May 01 1998 12:18 - ID#29048)
Natchez: Seawater and Gold
This is an interesting link.

(Fri May 01 1998 12:19 - ID#432157)
Thoughts on this URL would be most appreciated.

How accurate is he/she ??????

How good are his sources ?????

Enjoy the Site.


(Fri May 01 1998 12:20 - ID#390415)
XAU down 1.75%
at the moment

(Fri May 01 1998 12:22 - ID#288155)
Speaking of American currency--

I brought this forward when I first came upon it, many months ago. If you havent read it, you MUST! And then, send it to anyone you know whose
mind isn't sealed shut.

The authors acuity of mind and human warmth inform every word and animate every paragraph. This monograph is highest caliber armament!

A.Goose@Quick.thought It may have been "quick", but it was astute! {:- )
The "elected few" haven't been tied to the dollar for quite some time.
See FCC bulletin on telecom deal!

(Fri May 01 1998 12:22 - ID#335184)
MILES, absolutely brilliantly cool @ 10:43. Same slight of hand @ Disney & Koke, AD NAUSIUM across the OEX. Barton Biggs from the sane side of Morgan Stanley estimates that puff in S&P earnings is extremely material.

SHAREFIN- FRANKENSTEIN, naw, Warewolf, naw, Dracula, The THING ( SCI-FI CIRCA 1958 ) ,BULL BLEEDING FROTHY BLOOD FROM IT'S NOSTRILS, ? Which one could actually make therapeutic use out of a hefty transfusion ? The market @ $12 TRILLION needs just about every $ reserve in the wrld ( 1.5 trillion just to move ! ) %. That turnip & the US borrowers are out of blood. There is not enough liquidity left to make any kind of a "BLOW OFF TOP".Upper range for 98 can't be above 9600 - 9800. Downside is like Lock NESS.

Lakefoil & STUDIO R.-- RE RANGY " HE GOT GAME " !




(Fri May 01 1998 12:23 - ID#284255)
Avid Chat;

Avid archives;

John Disney__A
(Fri May 01 1998 12:23 - ID#24135)
Are We Counting Pennies ??
for Myrmidon ..
To satisfy Your craving for mathematical exactitude..
The jse-gold index expressed in $$$$ hit a low of 135.26
on march 18. It closed yesterday at 213.61 .. which is
below its high ...
Now 213.61/135.26 = 1.578 .. the currency effect is worth
a few percent. the gain is 58% rather than 61%.
As im sure you know .. just divide the joberg gold
index by the rand - $ exchange rate... to get the index
expressed in $.

(Fri May 01 1998 12:24 - ID#318183)
china is our new friend

(Fri May 01 1998 12:27 - ID#286230)
Aurophile: Interesting article on the EURO. However if it was true that the Asians countries provide an example of what might happen to the EURO and that :
"they did not quite have a single currency, but the
fixed-rate peg which locked most of them in against the
US dollar came to virtually the same thing,"

Why did the various currencies decline at different times and to varying degrees? Seems a phony comaprison to me.

(Fri May 01 1998 12:32 - ID#318183)
if rangy takes fortitude what about GOLDF!! I'm buying at 1/8 - lol - Is my money flowing from my 'weak' hands to those strong hands ??
I'm hoping rangy can close at 1 9/32 today to give "air" to the bottom bollinger band!!

(Fri May 01 1998 12:32 - ID#41170)
305 bottom
Hey I got some of that Leir through Vengold.

Tally Ho

(Fri May 01 1998 12:33 - ID#228100)
A few new conclusions that Ive reached today:
1. Stocks will keep going up indefinitely.
2. Gold and PMs are stable investments.
3. Y2K will not have an impact to the world economy.
4. Asian problems will not have an impact to the world economy.
5. Clintons character really doesnt matter.
6. This Prozac stuff is really great!

(Fri May 01 1998 12:34 - ID#20135)
Thanks SDRer.

I would like to make a request for any and all lurkers that are taking delivery of comex gold to PLEASE share their experiences with us. The information is very helpful. Type and quality of acutal bullion received, how fast order was filled, what if any problems occured along the way of getting delivery.

Thanks in advance.

Also if anyone has historic data on comex stocks, could you share some data with us. What was eligible and registered stocks for gold in 6 month increments for last 5 years ( that is only 10 data points but it would be helpful ) . Thanks any data would be helpful.

got to go BBL

Remember buy gold, take delivery and hang onto it.

(Fri May 01 1998 12:35 - ID#254269)
Wall Street Journal articles;
1. Page A1. At the World Bank, Money is no Object.
2. Page A14. Why we Need the IMF, by David Rockefeller.

Article #1 talks about a $2 Billion pipleine in Brazil that private industry was unwilling to finance.

(Fri May 01 1998 12:35 - ID#288155)
LOL on the outside--crying on the inside {:- ) /{:- (

(Fri May 01 1998 12:37 - ID#254269)
My mistake; World Bank article is
on page A15.

(Fri May 01 1998 12:38 - ID#254269)
New Conclusions. @ Year 2000. Viagra futures may also be worth
a gamble.

(Fri May 01 1998 12:39 - ID#41170)
LAUGH- want a goood laugh? Watch Larry and Bob from the DowJones
NewsWire on CNBC. Are these guys FOR REAL? MUTT nd JEFF!!

Tally Ho

(Fri May 01 1998 12:40 - ID#41170)
or is they LARRY AND MOE??

Tally Ho

(Fri May 01 1998 12:42 - ID#33024)

(Fri May 01 1998 12:43 - ID#41170)
You know how VIAGRA was discovered don't you?

(Fri May 01 1998 12:45 - ID#345176)
For 4 days now I have been waiting but without success..

Can someone please put a sell order of SSC of 5,000 shares
or more so my order ( good until cancelled ) can be filled at $1 1/8?
Minimum quantity of 5,000 shares please.

@ Lord DISNEY. Thanks, issue clarified, I need more RANGY now.

(Fri May 01 1998 12:46 - ID#254269)
@Ray. No I don't know . (viagra). Is the response suitable for prime time
viewing ?

(Fri May 01 1998 12:56 - ID#41170)
AAvalon- suitable, YES. It was first used as a heart drug and the
fellows were dieing @ full attention so they figured well heck
why not change the purpose and make a fortune. NUF SAID
I saw two guys FIGHTING last week in the line to get my prescription filled.


Tally Ho

(Fri May 01 1998 12:56 - ID#342315)
Sharefin re Avid
Thank you for this. I may do something tht's profitable, as long as you don';t leave me!! Waiting on a good gold deal to close. Happy trading

(Fri May 01 1998 13:00 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Selby -- I also feel that the argument was rather specious. Personally, I feel pegging an intangible with another intangible yields an intangible. Or in this case, pegging debt paper to a debt paper yields debt. I.E., just another aspect of the confidence game. As usual, one gets what one pays for! Presumably, the Euro currency will not wholly be pegged to 'intangibles', thus one should be able to expect a different outcome, not that I agree at all that a currency should have to be pegged to any damn thing, but simply live on its own real merits 100%! That any currency is based on ANY part of debt paper or any other intangible/worthless artifact is the cause of all speculation in that 'currency', as it becomes nothing but a confidence game.
Another point is that each of the S.E. Asian countries had there 'own' currency, regardless how they were backed, or pegged. The Euro will be one currency across the countries. Thus, devalue it anywhere and it devalues everywhere. No different than the US dollar within this country. What it does is puts ALL their 'eggs' in the one basket. They all sink or swim together.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:00 - ID#204202)
Hello Everybody!

I wanted to decloak and introduce myself. First off,
I am grateful to all regular contributors of this diverse
group, no matter how crazy you have been made out
to be. Secondly, for those who take themselves seriously
as a broker on this group and nothing else, let me thank you
in advance for the expert advice you have provided past or future
that I may or may not have followed.

All kidding aside, I want to take my introductory moment to
address a subject that I consider to be a grave matter indeed,
the fabled mother of all corrections approaching the
DOW. Since most of us here already percieve the DOW to
be out on a very weak limb, I will go out there too and make some
weighty predictions. Of course we are in danger of the chasm just
about everyday now, most of us here have seen it, but I submit that the real danger zone begins out in first two weeks of July territory and the "financial substrate" that provides a level of confidence in all DOW stocks will have eroded past all deniability at this time.

At this point the DOW will literally be in the clouds and
thereafter paper will assume a "vaporous" quality just as
the mist forms on the windshields of the plane.

I further submit that when DOW skids out into the chasm we
will look at this years DOW performance and see a repeat of last
years bumps and jumps.

The game is becoming this: the DOW must continue
it's march upwards lest it INSTANTLY ( fast as the electronic
markets can react ) lose it's attractiveness to foreign
capital. Take this as a hint then, I think there is still a HUGE
capitalization opportunity in the final leg up of the DOW.
In the midst of this, I think we will begin to see individual companies
putting up the white chapter 9 flags after taking very big hits.

To illustrate my final metaphor for today, the stairsteps continue upward, but the holes between the steps are starting to show through
to global investors. More and more will fall through desperately
clawing at whatever part of the staircase they can grab.

I am personally a small investor living in the pacific northwest
and about 50% invested, with about 25% of that in mining stocks.
I'm planning on being out of all but extremely speculative
non-mining stocks yesterday.

In the end, the gold bugs are CORRECT about the nature
of money but the conditioned and evolutionary nature of human behavior with money means that changes in collective perceptions
of money come only through the generations. For the individual investor, the question still remains, am I in the right place at the right time? I think gold is fast approaching the right place & the right time.

Peace & Prosperity,

(Fri May 01 1998 13:05 - ID#373403)
Spending rising faster than income
Hmmmm.....Is this the $500 billion in new M3 money supply CREATED in the past 12 months beginning to come out of the stock market? Inflation is just a market correction away!

Rates WILL rise later this month. The Federal Reserve's mandate is NOT to support the stock market.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:11 - ID#254269)
Worth reading; Sharefin's 23.13 of last night.
It is a very interesting commentary. Gosh, there's a lot of talent on this site ! !

(Fri May 01 1998 13:11 - ID#342315)
SDRer re your 11:40
This has been planned at least since Warburg put up thr Fed, as you know. I don't think anyone is satisfied. What we have to do is come up with a slogan that will focus attention on a way out. Like pooper scooping the litter box so the kitties have a clean place to pee.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:13 - ID#284170)
German Revelation & Watch for Summer Bubble Blowout
Just in case you were wondering, I've been lurking here for months now.
& Look what I have found on the net tonite.... Steve


April 30, 1998. Interviewer: Tony Papert

TONY PAPERT: Welcome to EIR Talks. My name's Tony Papert. It's Thursday morning, April 30, 1998, and with me in the studio is EIR Counterintelligence Director Jeff Steinberg.

Jeff, there was a major breakthrough article in the German newsweekly, Speigel, two days ago. Can you tell us about it?

JEFF STEINBERG: Yes, this has everything to do with the onrush of the Maastricht agreement implementation, which is the agreement under which, effectively, all of the major countries of Europe, with the exception of Britain, in the short term, are going to be surrendering their monetary and economic sovereignty to a single currency and single Central Bank arrangement; and needless to say, there is an enormous amount of resistance to going forward with this suicide pact among leading political circles, and among people on the streets in practically every country in Europe.

Now, what Helmut Kohl did this past week, is announce that he is going to be releasing, at the beginning of July of this year, all of the secret government papers concerning his decision in late 1989 to go ahead with German participation in this Maastricht agreement. And what Kohl reveals in the documents that have been preliminarily released to Spiegel--obviously, it's a small portion of the total file, but you get a characterization of the situation--[is] that Germany was blackmailed. Helmut Kohl personally was blackmailed into going along with this single-currency regime, and he was told, particularly in a gang-up by then-French President Francois Mitterrand and -British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, that the only conditions under which Germany would be allowed to be reunified -- that's to say, the former East Germany communist state reintegrated into West Germany, -- was on the condition that Germany agreed to this surrendering of economic national sovereignty under this European single-currency regime. And what Kohl described, is a whole series of back-and-forth discussions with Francois Mitterrand of France during November of 1989.

At this time, Margaret Thatcher had already come out decisively against German reunification, and had launched a propaganda campaign, along with several key members of her cabinet, in particular, a Minister, now deceased, named Nicholas Ridley, that Germany was about to become a "Fourth Reich," that the reunification of Germany was tantamount to Hitler coming back into power--all sorts of vile anti-German race-hatred coming out of the British.

So, in that context, it was very clear that the British, and along with the British, the Dutch, would be decisively against the reintegration, reunification of Germany. France under Mitterrand--this was a pincer attack against Kohl--insisted that the only circumstances under which Germany would be allowed to reunify would be if they accepted the immediate implementation, on a very fast timetable, of this European single-currency regime. Kohl came back to Mittterrand and said, well, I'll accept the idea in principle, but give me an extra two or three years to really get ready to do this. And Mitterrand not only said no, but said: You've got a deadline, you've got an ultimatum. You do it under these terms, under these basic terms of surrender, or it doesn't happen.

- A Defining Moment in History -

Now, at that point, Kohl, in effect, caved in, and at that same time frame, said to then-U.S. Secretary of State James Baker III that this was the worst moment of his life, and that he had made a decision that was firmly against German national interests. Now, it's very important to realize that this was a life-or-death moment, and it's far broader than just the question of Germany, or the question of reunification. The stakes here were really defining the character of the post-Cold War era. I mean, it was not yet 1991, the Soviet Union had not collapsed, but the Berlin Wall was coming down, and events in other parts of Eastern Europe made it clear that the days of the Soviet Empire were numbered, and that we were looking at the early moments of the post-Cold War era: a defining moment in history.

Under those circumstances, you unfortunately had George Bush in the White House in the United States, who began flapping his jaws together about the wonders of the "New World Order" during this period. So, the U.S., while supporting German reunification, was in effect, certainly not backing up Kohl in the idea that there was an alternative way to do it than lying prostrate before the demands of Mitterrand and Thatcher.

- Alfred Herrhausen:

Now, it happened that a very key economic advisor to Chanceller Kohl named Alfred Herrhausen, was someone who at least shared some of the key elements of LaRouche's concept, and in the midst of what we were discussing earlier about this attempt to blackmail Kohl into accepting the Maastricht agreement as the only condition for German reunification in the midst of those events--we're talking now, zeroing in on November of 1989--in the midst of that, Alfred Herrhausen was assassinated.

Now, the ostensible assassins were from the Red Army Faction, the old Baader Meinhof terrorist gang, but German security officials knew, we knew, that the Baader Meinhof gang no longer existed. The RAF so-called "Fourth Generation" was really a phantom entity, and in fact, it was a name that was put out to cover an assassination carried out by intelligence agencies, in this case, most likely, British Intelligence. Because it was in fact Herrhausen's policies, mirroring LaRouche's policies, that offered the alternative to Helmut Kohl to caving in on this Maastricht question.
But with the Herrhausen assassination, the blackmail pressure, Kohl, as he's now admitted, caved in to the pressure.

EIR: We were discussing the Euro, or the European Maastricht agreements before the station break. Jeff, there's going to be a spectacular development in this connection, this coming Monday, May 4. Could you tell us about it?

JEFF STEINBERG: Well, there'll be a meeting of the 11 European countries that will be the initiating members of this European Monetary Union single-currency arrangement, and on Monday, there are going to be establishing an inter-Europe fixed- exchange-rate system among these 11 currencies, meaning each of them will be individually pegged at a fixed value to this new, emerging, single European currency, the euro, and therefore to each other. So, we're now in the second major phase of this process of the European single currency regime. The first phase has already so badly battered and destroyed the economies of all of the participating countries in Europe, that I think it remains fairly to be seen, whether or not this whole process is actually going to go forward into full implementation--there're certainly some people who very much want it to go that way--but there's growing resistance because of the consequences.

The first phase of the euro, which was concluded several months back, is that each of the countries, in order to qualify for opening round participation, had to reach levels of government austerity to where the budget deficits of the governments represented three percent or under of the gross domestic product of their economies.

Now, in effect, the European countries put themselves through voluntary, self-imposed IMF conditionalities over the past years in order to meet these criteria, and as the consequence, you've got unemployment rates skyrocketing in every European country, you've got collapse of industry, you've got major economic crises, and now we're seeing the first indications of the kind of social ferment we saw back a few years ago. There're strikes going on in Scandinavia on a scale that we haven't seen in many, many years, and I would expect to see similar things occurring elsewhere around Europe.

In Germany, in effect, there was a political strike against Helmut Kohl, in the the form of a massive vote-of-no-confidence in last week's elections in one of the states of eastern Germany, and what happened in those elections in Saxon-Anhalt is that the CDU lost about 10% of the vote from what they previously had. The SPD, which had expected to make major gains, and really advance the cause of the Social Democratic Party as the clear-cut alternative to Helmut Kohl and the CDU, really only stayed about static, and what you saw was a widespread vote for one of the extreme rightwing nationalist parties, and a significant increase in the vote for the "ex"-communists.

So the consequence of all of this, is that you've got a political protest, similar to what we saw in the last Federal elections in the United States: in the U.S. it manifested in over 50% of the voters not turning out. In Germany it's taken the form of voters rejecting the "mainstream" political parties. So you've got a political crisis, you've got an economic crisis, you've got a social crisis. You've got a fight underway, principally between Germany and France over the issue of who is going to control, who is going to be the first director-general of this new European Central Bank.

So we've already had tremendous economic dislocation in Europe. It would have been worse, in a certain ironic way, but for the fact that we had the collapse in Asia throughout 1997. You had a 70% collapse in the value of the Indonesian currency, 50-60% collapses in Thailand, Malaysia, the Philippines; you had the crisis in South Korea. And so, in a sense, a certain amount of the Asian exports into Western Europe, were significantly cheapened by the the Asia crisis. So there was a short-term windfall that allowed a number of the European countries to squeak under the Maastricht criteria. In the case of Italy, there's been a least allegations in one European publication, that the Italians counted the underground economy, the illegal economy, in their gross domestic product figures, in order to significantly goose up those numbers to meet the criteria.

So, there's a lot of tomfoolery, there's a lot of accounting magic in this, and now we're in the phase where they're going to be attempting to put together a fixed currency-peg in anticipation of the new currency coming on line in January, but there are interim steps that we're going to see playing out long before that, that we can talk about after the break.

- Watch for a Summer Blowout of the Bubble -

JEFF STEINBERG: As you pointed out before, May 4 is a singular moment, because it goes from the qualifying phase of the 11 countries now, to establishing the fixed currency-peg, and the next phase after that, comes in January of 1999, I think Jan. 1, when, in effect, the euro, as a new currency reflecting these 11 countries, comes on line. There's a period of a couple of years where there'll be a transition where the national currencies will exist, side-by-side with the euro, but where all bonds, all state Treasury bonds from these countries will be converted into eurobonds, and they'll be administered through a single European Central Bank.

Now, again, a certain amount of this is highly speculative, whether any of this is going to really take place, for the simple reason that the economic crisis that began in Asia, but was never an Asia crisis, in fact, has been a global systemic crisis, is now beginning to show signs of hitting very hard in the United States, very hard in Europe, the Japan situation still has everyone completely terrified: a breakdown of the Japanese banking system, a collapse of the Japanese stock market, the Nikkei to below 15,000--any of these things could trigger a global crisis that puts the entire international financial and monetary structure up for grabs; and under those circumstances, everything is subsumed under the question of whether we're going to have a new Bretton Woods system, or whether we're going to go into a period of protracted financial and monetary chaos, a full-scale depression, and really, as Mr. LaRouche has said repeatedly, the onset of a full-scale dark age.

So, in a certain way, the euro question is subsumed under that. Now, of course, because the British oligarchy is the British oligarchy, they're naturally playing certain games within this framework that need to be watched very carefully. First of all, Britain is not among the initiating members of the euro, although, the British say, we will join at some convenient point down the line, perhaps five years from now, perhaps four years from now. What the British are doing, however, is making it a point that London is the natural place for the new European euro, eurobond market to be headquartered. So they're saying, we have the infrastructure, we have the service industry. We have all the international banks. London will, in effect, while not being formally part of the single currency, will be the dominant financial center.

Blair is, of course, trying to play his game of being the bridge-figure between the United States and Western Europe, continental Western Europe. He's trying to be the arbiter between Germany and France and the Netherlands, over who is going to get the job of being the first head of the European Central Bank. So the British are playing all of their typical Venetian tricks. There's people at the London School of Economics who are licking their chops at the idea that the eurobonds will be a direct challenge to the U.S. dollar.

So again, if you keep your eye on the ball, and watch London's games, you get an idea of what the hard-core Venetian oligarchy crowd is out to accomplish, namely, wreak havoc, and of course, always the target is the whole question of the nation-state system. I think the critical thing, is we're moving into a period where more and more people are saying that the early summer months of this year, are going to see the next big ratchet blowout of the world financial system. There's widespread discussion of the fact that U.S. stock market is insanely over-inflated, overheated, and it's a likely place for a big bubble to burst. So we're really sitting on pins and needles here.

And, of course, in the aftermath of the Willard/Madison Hotel meeting, certain issues were put on the table about the need for a new global financial architecture, but certainly nobody took the necessary leadership step to say, we need a new Bretton Woods, and let's put together the mechanisms for implementing that as fast as possible. Sooner or later, that issue is going to be front-and-center on the table, and my forecast would be that it's going to be sooner.


(Fri May 01 1998 13:14 - ID#263379)
Silver Conspiracy
Hmmmm....dem Merril Lynch types & central bankers must by conspirin wid dose revenuooores & oil fer Metal boyz ta put dem virus thingies on Barts site ta make silver look like it gone right down ta Zero & all, fer to scare eberybody into sellin quick!

(Fri May 01 1998 13:15 - ID#404246)
Date: Fri May 01 1998 11:55

To All: Does anyone know how much gold is disolved in seawater and by what process it can be removed? I know it is very expensive to do but I understand that it has been done before.

The only time I know of that gold was extracted from sea water in comercial quanities was in the early part of this century. When the first electrical generators were used in tankers they used the excess electricty to plate gold out on wires strung along the hull. This was only done on trans Alantic shipping as far as I know.

They did this ONLY to help pay for the generators which were new and expensive back then. Far as I know it was done for a few years then stopped because the upkeep on the wires and the hull was too much trouble. The plating depositied many metals which the refinery seperated later.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:16 - ID#345176)
KINROSS GOLD 1Q results - KGC. Earnings of 1 cent per share

Steve - Perth__A
(Fri May 01 1998 13:16 - ID#284170)
German Revelation & Watch for Summer Bubble Blowout
The article/s below posted by Steve in Perth, Western Australia
Just retesting this new site format. ( new for me again )
Hi Donald! Have been reading your posts for ages. Excellent as
usual. You deserve a good crash by now. I am hanging out for it!!

(Fri May 01 1998 13:25 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Liberty -- Nah. That's just Bart's way of testing demand. When he tosses a bar of silver into the 'eligible' bin periodically, The current demand is not enough to support the 6.20 numbers and the price plunges until he withdraws it.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:27 - ID#26793)
Getting in and out of the XAU by the numbers. I have been using XAU/spot readings below .230 to buy half my intended purchase, below .200 for the second half.

To get out had been using .300 for the first half and .320 for the second half.

Yesterday I didn't like the way it looked and got 1/4 out at 1:45PM. No discipline I guess but the gut feeling worked so far. No whipsaw yet.

I have never had a chance to make a purchase below .200 yet.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:28 - ID#409160)
All, Currency and what it will become?!
I briefly scan postings periodically and have noticed time to time talk of confiscation and wether Euro will be convertable to gold. Also that gold will only have if it will be traded as a currency in the physical form or a relation to a physical form ( convertability ) .

My question to all is, why would the CB's start using a hard asset ( physically backed or actual physical ) , instead of paper as a currency when it took 70 years or so to get the public to accept a debt promisary note ( The U.S. $ ) as the main vehicle of currency? The mindset of a large group of people was also changed with debacking of currency. People now question the value of gold, i.e. "what is the value when it really has no industrial use, It just sit there doing nothing" This is the mindset ANOTHER speaks of.

If we return to a physical currency, in any form, with convertability it would diminish the control that govs. would have over people.

For example, a cashless society would give controlling parties complete transparency of all transactions. ( everything would be able to be tracked, so it could be taxed or controlled ) Where if you have cash exchanged, paper or physical, this transaction is less transparent. Why do you think when large withdraws, Cash that is, from banks trigger paper work inorder to alert govs. ?

When you have physical being traded as currency, this gives govs. even less control, unless they control the physical market.

This is why I have not jumped on the physical as the way to go. For I feel we are heading for a cashless society!

As for as a salvation, as some of the people maybe looking for here. They will not find it in any form of money, for money is the root of all evil!

It is found in the lord God, through Jesus Christ!

One must not loose site where to place the faith!

If anyone questions the power of faith, I would suggest to them the only thing propelling the market today is faith, what will we have when the faith is removed? Imagine if the faith that is placed within the market was to be placed in our savior, would not the world be a better place?

Flash Gordon__A
(Fri May 01 1998 13:30 - ID#327282)
gold calls
..tick tock tick tock......I think I'm going to be sick

(Fri May 01 1998 13:31 - ID#230244)
Au down $2.35 in 10 minutes,
looks as yesterdays' scenario.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:33 - ID#433142)
Steve RE: German Revelation
Steve-Thanks for your post. It makes a LOT of SENSE. Brits & Frogs, as expected. Go gold.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:34 - ID#256326)
Steve in Perth
Who/what/where is EIR? Do you have the original URL for the interview? Thanka.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:35 - ID#317193)
Bye, bye Dec. contracts

(Fri May 01 1998 13:36 - ID#256326)
Meant to say thank you in advance.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:37 - ID#318183)
Just got all my rangy at 1/4- NOW WHAT!! lol

(Fri May 01 1998 13:37 - ID#433142)
Whoa Nellie!!!!
Gold tanking. ( Check out Bart's Spot Gold Chart - thought the market closed at 2:30! )

(Fri May 01 1998 13:39 - ID#431263)
OIL STOCKS AND GOLD STOCKS WILL TOP OUT THIS AGING DOW BULL! I agree with the guy who wrote Herr Steve's article--EURO pressures will create currency turmoil in the dollar by summer. Gold's collapse to $304.70 today in the face of surging oil and oil stocks is setting us up for a huge rally next week in cyclicals including gold. This is the BOTTOM in BOTH! IMHO

(Fri May 01 1998 13:39 - ID#208393)
Keep the Faith
the Puppet Masters are pulling Golden Strings. Keep the faith and stay true to your believes.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:39 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Alright. Who's the culprit that broke gold? RJ. Thought you wern't going to short it today. Is is that, 'or not'?

(Fri May 01 1998 13:42 - ID#410114)
Don Wolanchuck said a few weeks ago that there would be a cyclic event ( low ) at the end of April. Wolanchuck is big on cycles and he claimed that one was due at the end of April til the first part of May. It looks like that is happening now.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:44 - ID#256326)
I don't have live quotes on the laptop. Anyone have a current GCM8 live quote? Thanks.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:44 - ID#230244)
ELEVATOR GOING DOWN,NOW 3.85. This is almost funny who is in charege of the nut house.

(Fri May 01 1998 13:46 - ID#317193)
What now?
Time for physical and shares. Tom

(Fri May 01 1998 13:47 - ID#230244)
June now @
$307.50 DOWN .40

(Fri May 01 1998 13:47 - ID#431263)
Better get out your Bible and read it again! It ISN'T money which is the root of all evil, but the LOVE ( LUST ) FOR money which is the root of all evil. If money were the root of all evil, Pat Robertson would be the DEVIL INCARNATE! : ) And by the way, I appreciate your religious views and may even share them, BUT KITCO IS A GOLD SITE AND NOT A TOOL FOR EVANGELISM OR PROSELYTIZING!! Please respect those at this site who may not share your religious zealotry!

(Fri May 01 1998 13:47 - ID#410114)

GC M8 June Gold 3078 -1 -0.0 3085 3065 43.2K -10

(Fri May 01 1998 13:48 - ID#410114)
just saw 305

(Fri May 01 1998 13:48 - ID#256326)
gracias Rob

(Fri May 01 1998 13:50 - ID#426220)

The following information is from the NASDAQ archives and various Internet sources.

Per RANGY Financial Statements ( dated April 17, 1998 ) on file with the NASDAQ, RANGY has two institutional investor shareholders with at least 5% of the outstanding stock:

- Nedbank Nominees Ltd. with 29.94%

- Standard Bank with NO amount specified

Outstanding shares is 13,791,000, and Market Cap on above date was about $17 million.

Info about Nedbank - it belongs to the holding company NEDCOR -

Nedcor is a leading banking group in South Africa, with activities covering personal, commercial and corporate banking, merchant banking, fund management and related financial services. Most of its operations are through an extensive network of branches and offsite centres throughout South Africa. It operates internationally through outlets in

London, Isle of Man, Hong Kong, Beijing and Taiwan and through associates into sub-Saharan Africa. The group is currently the largest banking group in South Africa in terms of its various brands, many of which relate to well-established products, are designed to serve clearly-defined market

segments. Nedcor website:

Standard Bank - It is a well-known major Off-Shore bank. Here is their website:

(Fri May 01 1998 13:52 - ID#335184)
I have too much water in my dingy to paddle over to GOLDF just right this moment, but why do you like it ?

As for RANGY, by ALL MEANS, put "AIR" under it, but, better pump the helium content !



(Fri May 01 1998 13:55 - ID#215208)
GC8M low 303.5 last 303.7. Buy the dips!

(Fri May 01 1998 13:56 - ID#215208)
Low now 303.1

(Fri May 01 1998 13:58 - ID#215208)
More yet!
Low now 302.8

(Fri May 01 1998 14:01 - ID#431263)
If you're thinking about buying GOLDF, forget it! It is being manipulated BIG TIME by management. If you doubt me, check its thread over at Silicon Investor! It may even be a scam like the desert dirts appear to be! And if you are really into sadism and masochism check out the pain at the now delisted site for IPMCF! Talk about a bloodbath! A horror movie if ever I saw one! RESIST THE URGE! BUY GOLD INSTEAD!

(Fri May 01 1998 14:02 - ID#408147)
POG 301.85
ouch...but getting ready to bounce back...

(Fri May 01 1998 14:03 - ID#340302)

Don't you just love the action, fellas?



(Fri May 01 1998 14:04 - ID#431263)

(Fri May 01 1998 14:05 - ID#339274)
302 support
FWIW Silver is going to be relative stronger in next week's upsurge

(Fri May 01 1998 14:07 - ID#255151)
Gold Down

Wow! Looks like Disney's brother was right about the decline. Does he have a newsletter?

(Fri May 01 1998 14:08 - ID#409160)
Golden Cheesehead
Would lusting be described as putting more energy and attention in one thing than the other?

I will heed your advice as the message was not to offend but to stimulate thought and discussion. Many of current events are spoke of in the bible, for people that dig and research, time tables tells us of major events will happen in the next few years, this is not an opinion but is written in black and white text.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:10 - ID#20135)
Wow! What a change in a couple of hours.

It will be interesting to see if comex stocks drop agian today. As Allen pointed out the paper gold plays are seriously worried about people getting to interested in bullion.

Well, we been there, done that. See you later when we can see what happened to actual bullion movements -- maybe Arden will post results early again today.

301.60 at 14:08, will they breach 300, will comex eligible stocks fall further. Boy the pm's are exciting...

BBL to find out.

* By the way the key is to buy low and sell high, this looks like a nice little dip ( get some of those wonderful comex door stops every home should have one or two. IMHO

(Fri May 01 1998 14:11 - ID#431263)
NO WAY CAN GOLD GOLD CLOSE BELOW $300 on a day when the XOI is UP 13.40 to a new all-time high! OIL is telling the TRUTH!

(Fri May 01 1998 14:14 - ID#432298)
Golden Cheesehead.........
Can you elaborate on what value gold should be at close in order for a bottom to have been made. Thank you.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:17 - ID#345176)
Bought RANGY a few minutes ago at $1 1/16 - Traded at $1.00!

Wish I could do the same with SSC!

(Fri May 01 1998 14:18 - ID#317193)
Oh I could not resist-Bouhgt two Dec back

John Disney__A
(Fri May 01 1998 14:21 - ID#24135)
That was my Son
In Melbourne
I dont have a brother.. His
name isnt Russell... and he doesn't
live in Toronto.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:21 - ID#41170)
HEIR CHEESEHEAD- looks like that POLE CAT came in smellin up
the place at the same time as yesterday. WHY DON'T YOU SHOOT

Tally Ho

(Fri May 01 1998 14:21 - ID#342315)
Donald re XAU
Thanx. I found a refreshable daily chart That has the XAU chart. If you know this, how would you suggest using the numbers you use. You might look at this site and see if it fits. Many thanx for your work here.Charlie

(Fri May 01 1998 14:22 - ID#256326)
$303.50 is 50% of the last upward leg of the market. Second Elliott waves can do anything ( up to 100% that is ) , but if this is the second wave of a larger degree third wave ( numbered from the January lows ) , I would have to reconsider this bullish count if we go much lower. Happy weekend all!

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 14:22 - ID#384350)
I've read a lot of ugly stuff about China today.

First, John Kutyn's new article, then by several diligent posters here.

Is China soon to devalue? Is the Euro going to be a Force? It looks as if Gold is being manipulated lower, possibly because something big is going on.

BTW, Irish Television reports that speculation is that the controversy over the head of the Eurobank will be worked out.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:23 - ID#335184)
A strong head = strong hands . Any reasonable AU or AU stock, IMHIPO, will reap rich rewards, if you can stay put for one year. IMHIPO the end of the rainbow is Aug. 1 - 15 !

Is it true that JSE is closed today ? Maybe it is just yankee ignorance & fear driving RANGY down to $1.25 ( 1 buck would just take us back to Jan. 1 ) , but hgmcy @ -12% & DD @ -3% ! AU Physical is troughing out or we're all scroodouled any way !




(Fri May 01 1998 14:23 - ID#431263)
I Think we made the low about 10 minutes ago. June gold now at $303.10 and climbing back! If it can keep from closing below $303 I will be satisfied that a low is in place at least on a closing basis. Might be a retest of $300 on Monday and Tuesday. Time will tell! Let's see how we close. Guess I got my answer as to whether RANGY would make it to a buck! Sheees that was fast! What about 75 cents?

(Fri May 01 1998 14:24 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Chart looks like a stairstep towards buying heaven!

As much as I hated seeing 306 June get broken, volatility before the Euro meeting was to be expected. To me, Tuesday still looks good for a turn. I can speculate on seeing 296 June gold if this current area gives way. If that too doesn't hold, then 290. A buying spree will then be at hand, and I can also pick up more physical that very same day.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:24 - ID#252150)
Midas@Buy Abx-bigger is usually better & definitely safer when it comes to AU
stocks & ABX is up 40 % this year. I made my first foray into SA stocks & bought some Rangy @ 1.43 & yesterday @ 1.31. I don't know how this will unfold ( bought it strctly on TA ) , but now that I look at the incredible amount of debt, I'm having 2nd & 3rd thoughts. Oh well! can't have all winners.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:30 - ID#215208)
Low of 302.5, moving up as settling approaches, now at 304

silver plate
(Fri May 01 1998 14:30 - ID#234253)
Buy more Mounties, they are cheap here and quaranteed.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:30 - ID#328159)
@SDRer__A 11:40
Repost from Fri Apr 24 1998 18:02 for SDRer__A 11:40
with additional info
( "unhappily, that is where Americans are; we owe our souls to the company store" )

You loan 8000 tonnes an' whaddya get?
ANOTHER day older an' deeper in debt
Saint Peter doncha call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company sto'

apologies to Merle Travis

( 8000 tonnes is a reference to the amount of gold alleged by Frank Veneroso to be short-sold globally )

- written in 1947 by Merle Travis
- #1 hit for "Tennessee" Ernie Ford in 1955
- lyrics as recorded by "Tennessee" Ernie Ford:

(Fri May 01 1998 14:30 - ID#431263)
JUNE GOLD AT $303.80 !!

(Fri May 01 1998 14:32 - ID#340302)
Thanks, my friends...a million thanks.


I look forward to next week.



(Fri May 01 1998 14:33 - ID#342315)
Natchez re gold in seawater
I have a copy of a patent that has a novel procedure for this recovery. I don't know the concentration, but this procedure uses wave action to run mechanically seawater thru a precipitation process that results ( ? ) in recovery. If you would like a copy, let me know.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:34 - ID#343171)
a short squeeze or my shorts are gettng squeezed?

the manipulators of the afternoon US gold markets are getting brazen, I hope it is a sign of a last stand desperate fight that they loose

(Fri May 01 1998 14:34 - ID#210163)
Newmont and the XAU

(Fri May 01 1998 14:35 - ID#210163)
Newmont and the XAU
I have found that the action in NEM tends to lead the xau and also tells me when there is a sell program coming. Today it was the dog in the XAU until the break in gold. It is holding up now after the break so the worst is over.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:35 - ID#365216)
to year2000 regarding predictions & CAN WE BUY 1998 PLAT EAGLES?
Of course you know all of your predictions are bogus,
even the PRozac making you feel great. I took Prozac for over six
months prescribed for my fatigue and I really couldn't notice a
difference ( guess I wasn't crazy after all ) .

Anyway, we should all be looking forward to dips in the metals so
we can start loading up on bullion before the general public
becomes aware of the implications of Y2K to the banking/financial
industry. Soon, very soon, people will be looking to transfer
"electronic" assets into hard assets. "Shopping" for bargains will
be a lot tougher when everyone is in the "mall".

PS Does anyone know if the 1998 Platinum $100 US Eagles are out
yet or can we only buy the 1997s now?

(Fri May 01 1998 14:36 - ID#212197)
All: US$ is down against all European Currencies
US$ down against FR and DM 1.0%;
against Brit. Pound: 0.1%

A. the D.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:38 - ID#215208)
Doubled my position on RANGY today. Ya gotta love these dip! Now ... will it hold here?

Silver next. I'm ready.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:38 - ID#41170)
JSE is closed today, they are out dancin around the MAY POLE.
John is in the lead. Also closed May 26 for somethin.

Tally Ho

(Fri May 01 1998 14:41 - ID#41170)
Rebecca Nolan shows gold down now til May 11 then should drift UP.
Not that she has been too RIGHT lately.

For those that can't stand this short term stuff jest go fishin
and come back around October for a check in. Maybe we will be UP
by then?

Tally Ho

Lurker 777
(Fri May 01 1998 14:42 - ID#317247)
Thank you RJ!
RJ: Excellent call on the gold market. You are the MAN! You have once again unselfishly shared your expertise with us gold bugs and were proven correct. You are one of the greatest assets on Kitco and please continue to give us little nuggets of your THOUGHTS. I would like to apologize for any derogatory statements made by any Kitco poster and hope you will continue to give us market direction as you see it in the REAL world of trading metals. Your Kitco friend, 777

(Fri May 01 1998 14:45 - ID#317193)
Hand over fist-Buying

(Fri May 01 1998 14:47 - ID#289357)
What do they know that we don't know???

(Fri May 01 1998 14:48 - ID#289357)
What do they know that we don't know??

(Fri May 01 1998 14:49 - ID#289357)
Third time is the charm.......What do they know that we don't know??
Ultra Petroleum ( UP.VSE ) up 18% on 35.5 Million shares........WOW!

(Fri May 01 1998 14:49 - ID#224149)
Something for Nothing
Something stinks on Wallstreet --K-Tel a stock not worth 50 cents is trading for 50 dollars ---This company was booted out of Canada years ago ---Its worthless Then you wonder why the metals dont back the currencies ----Gold backing means no games Away to listen to some old scratched K-Tel records ---Studio-R ---Time to issue some stocks on music forget that oily barrel stuff.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:54 - ID#340459)
What is causing this afternoon drop, till we find out, we will not be able to decipher the probable
future move.

(Fri May 01 1998 14:55 - ID#335184)
John Disney_A - $64 K QUERY ? Is this gut check time to double down or pass the coolaid?
Debt volumn has been raised, but I understand book value over & above debt is 1.5 to 2 times market cap. If so this looks like a screaming buy @ $1,yes ?
Also is the JSE closed today & if so what impact, if any, ie liquidity do you think this had on todays RSA action in U.S, markets.
YOURS WITH BAITED BREATH ! Thanks for your most informative posts of last evening your time !



(Fri May 01 1998 14:56 - ID#340302)
@SILVERBARON...this is what "they" know....
...article might also be entitled, "How to Piss Off the Swiss National Bank."

I am very proud of it.

Date: Fri May 01 1998 05:24
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

It seems the major catalyst to the entire gold price debacle these last few years stems from the Bronfman Commission and its vigorous attempts to get the Swiss Banks to provide compensation to Holocaust victims whose wartimes assets ( primarily gold ) appear to have disappeared from Swiss Banks.

If in fact the Bronfman Commission's charges are true ( and I believe they are ) , then it means that for some fifty years, Swiss bankers have pulled off one of the greatest heists in history. Such grand theft raises interesting questions.

If the Swiss banks managed to steal all this gold with essentially no notable complaint leveled against them for some 50 years, then why stop there? Usually, when a thief succeeds at his larceny, then he does not reform immediately thereafter. No, he figures that if he got away with it once, he can do it again.

So, did the Swiss banks decide that, if they could steal gold from the Jews, they might be able to steal it from their own population? In other words, do the thousands of tons of gold in the Swiss reserves really exist? Or has the majority of these reserves been stolen and disposed of by now? If most of these reserves have been stolen, did the theft take place in actual physical form...or is it theft via paper, i.e., selling a great deal more gold paper than represented by real physical reserves? Were certain central banks in cahoots with Switzerland in effecting this gold ruse? If this scenario is true, then what would be the consequences of Jews demanding physical gold compensation? Would these demands lead to the collapse of a great Swiss gold dissemblance? Would a perpetually collapsing price of gold disincline Jews, financial institutions, and the average investor from demanding physical delivery of the metal, thereby revealing the "empty" gold vaults to the world? Is CB gold leasing merely a subterfuge designed to prevent a real, complete inventory of CB gold reserves?

Many questions to ponder. Many questions to ponder.

It is funny to think that America is making a big deal about UN arms inspectors and the imperative for them to go in and make a real, detailed inventory of nuclear weapons in Iraq. Time and again, Mr. Clinton alerts Americans of the great importance to world peace and safety that such an arms inspection take place.

Yet, maybe it might be equally important to the safety of the world financial system that some international body sends in some gold inspectors to effect a real, inventory of gold reserves, just to make sure that all the gold is really there.




(Fri May 01 1998 14:57 - ID#343171)
Ultra Petroleum just rec'd approval to list in the US

John Disney__A
(Fri May 01 1998 14:58 - ID#24135)
Hero worship is groovey
Lurker 777.
and not to take a single thing from
RJ ... But just WHAT did RJ do that was
so GOOD. Gold went down .. But silver
went down about the same .. so did
platinum .. and palladium which I recall
the man saying would surpass platinum
was the worst of all !!
..WHAT in the world are you talking
Is in UNRELATED to todays action and
just an all embracing expression of love
and gratitude ( in which case I happily
join in ) ????
The people that really called bad
action to come were Aurator .. and my
son .. and I didnt believe either of them.
And the really bad action and a test of
275 hasnt happened .... yet ???

(Fri May 01 1998 14:59 - ID#31868)
TYoung - Look over to your left, see the guy with the huge gold and platinum
rings with the bottle of tequila, yeah, that's right, BUYING with one large hand, refuse to let go of the liquid gold, I mean, I gotta have some standards!

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 15:01 - ID#384350)
Euroland 98
This is possibly a move to get the suckers out of the gold market before the big Euroland summit meeting this weekend and the likely announcement of Gold reserves and Importantly this should end CB selling. And as Alberich the Dwarf posted, the USD considerably weaker against the major Euro currencies. Maybe ANOTHER is right, something big is about to happen.

(Fri May 01 1998 15:05 - ID#288369)
@Drama school............
OIL :^ ) GOLD :^ ( OVERALL ;^O OIL up a buck....

(Fri May 01 1998 15:06 - ID#280245)
Chas re--yr 11:40
LOL--New terminology huh! OK...I get to work on it ( as soon as I stop laughing )

(Fri May 01 1998 15:07 - ID#340302)
This is my REALLY worth reading. Enjoy.

Date: Fri May 01 1998 04:56
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It seems the major catalyst to the entire gold price debacle these last few years stems from the Bronfman Commission and its vigorous attempts to get the Swiss Banks to provide compensation to Holocaust victims whose wartimes assets ( primarily gold ) appear to have disappeared from Swiss Banks.

If in fact the Bronfman Commission's charges are true ( and I believe they are ) , then it means that for some fifty years, Swiss bankers have pulled off one of the greatest heists in history. Such grand theft raises interesting questions.

If the Swiss banks managed to steal all this gold with essentially no notable complaint leveled against them for some 50 years, then why stop there? Usually, when a thief succeeds at his larceny, then he does not reform immediately thereafter. No, he figures that if he got away with it once, he can do it again.

So, did the Swiss banks decide that, if they could steal gold from the Jews, they might be able to steal it from their own population? In other words, do the thousands of tons of gold in the Swiss reserves really exist? Or has the majority of these reserves been stolen and disposed of by now? If most of these reserves have been stolen, did the theft take place in actual physical form...or is it theft via paper, i.e., selling a great deal more gold paper than represented by real physical reserves? Were certain central banks in cahoots with Switzerland in effecting this gold ruse? If this scenario is true, then what would be the consequences of Jews demanding physical gold compensation? Would these demands lead to the collapse of a great Swiss gold dissemblance? Would a perpetually collapsing price of gold disincline Jews, financial institutions, and the average investor from demanding physical delivery of the metal, thereby revealing the "empty" gold vaults to the world? Is CB gold leasing merely a subterfuge designed to prevent a real, complete inventory of CB gold reserves?

Many questions to ponder. Many questions to ponder.

It is funny to think that America is making a big deal about UN arms inspectors and the imperative for them to go in and make a real, detailed inventory of nuclear weapons in Iraq. Time and again, Mr. Clinton alerts Americans of the great importance to world peace and safety that such an arms inspection take place.

Yet, maybe it might be equally important to the safety of the world financial system that some international body sends in some gold inspectors to effect a real, inventory of gold reserves, just to make sure that all the gold is really there.




(Fri May 01 1998 15:08 - ID#270247)
Gold Down over $4.00
Just noticed gold is down again today. Guess its time to head over to my local bullion shop and get some more!!! I just love these little drops, they give me more opportunities to buy more before the real economic problems reach out and slap the world around.

(Fri May 01 1998 15:09 - ID#382234)

(Fri May 01 1998 15:10 - ID#340302)
Oops, sorry...I slipped up on that first line...REPOST IT AGAIN...
This is REALLY worth reading. Enjoy.

Date: Fri May 01 1998 04:56
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It seems the major catalyst to the entire gold price debacle these last few years stems from the Bronfman Commission and its vigorous attempts to get the Swiss Banks to provide compensation to Holocaust victims whose wartimes assets ( primarily gold ) appear to have disappeared from Swiss Banks.

If in fact the Bronfman Commission's charges are true ( and I believe they are ) , then it means that for some fifty years, Swiss bankers have pulled off one of the greatest heists in history. Such grand theft raises interesting questions.

If the Swiss banks managed to steal all this gold with essentially no notable complaint leveled against them for some 50 years, then why stop there? Usually, when a thief succeeds at his larceny, then he does not reform immediately thereafter. No, he figures that if he got away with it once, he can do it again.

So, did the Swiss banks decide that, if they could steal gold from the Jews, they might be able to steal it from their own population? In other words, do the thousands of tons of gold in the Swiss reserves really exist? Or has the majority of these reserves been stolen and disposed of by now? If most of these reserves have been stolen, did the theft take place in actual physical form...or is it theft via paper, i.e., selling a great deal more gold paper than represented by real physical reserves? Were certain central banks in cahoots with Switzerland in effecting this gold ruse? If this scenario is true, then what would be the consequences of Jews demanding physical gold compensation? Would these demands lead to the collapse of a great Swiss gold dissemblance? Would a perpetually collapsing price of gold disincline Jews, financial institutions, and the average investor from demanding physical delivery of the metal, thereby revealing the "empty" gold vaults to the world? Is CB gold leasing merely a subterfuge designed to prevent a real, complete inventory of CB gold reserves?

Many questions to ponder. Many questions to ponder.

It is funny to think that America is making a big deal about UN arms inspectors and the imperative for them to go in and make a real, detailed inventory of nuclear weapons in Iraq. Time and again, Mr. Clinton alerts Americans of the great importance to world peace and safety that such an arms inspection take place.

Yet, maybe it might be equally important to the safety of the world financial system that some international body sends in some gold inspectors to effect a real, inventory of gold reserves, just to make sure that all the gold is really there.




(Fri May 01 1998 15:10 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Here's a gut buster! The US Mint has an FDR commemorative gold coin. Said coin also has the words 'Liberty', and 'In God We trust' on it. How's THAT for the thief of the peoples gold?

(Fri May 01 1998 15:13 - ID#402148)
Missed it, what is Bernatz view of gold next week? Thanks

(Fri May 01 1998 15:13 - ID#280245)
CJS--(re: 8000 t) It has Style!
Merle would understand, I think...{:- )

(Fri May 01 1998 15:14 - ID#31868)
Did you get your Ferret?

(Fri May 01 1998 15:15 - ID#252127)
@ F*

New Federal Government Job Title:
Gold Inspector GS13,
Salary range as given on the employment notice. Applicants must have a masters degree majoring in metallurgy from an accredited university, plus a minimum of 7 years practical experience in the field of metallurgy, Appointment contingent upon passing an 8 hour written examination.
Must not be politically unaffiliated nor have any political asperations.
Must have an inate mistrust for CB's and the fractional reserve system.
All candidates who pass and except this position do so at their own risk. Job pension and health insurance will not be offered to those accepting this position.

(Fri May 01 1998 15:16 - ID#317193)
I'm real short with small hands-got to use both. Tom

(Fri May 01 1998 15:16 - ID#298259)
Clinton news...
Clinton was walking around the White House with a pair of ladies
panties on his arm. Everyone was looking at him and wondering what he
was doing now.

After about an hour one guy got brave enough to ask him what he was
doing with the pair of ladies panties on his arm and Clinton replied:
"It's the patch, I'm trying to quit.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 15:17 - ID#384350)
T Young, Farfel, yes a great post
Farfel, yer post is along the lines of the theory of T Young.

I think I saw an old B&W movie on TV when I was a kid. What I remember was this:

A nice, pretty, wealthy girl married this loser who didn't have a job. He drank and liked to gamble. He had some gambling debts, so he took a valuable piece of jewelry from the girl and sold it without her knowledge. Then he told the girl that someone offered, let's say, $300 for the heirloom.

The girl, shocked said, "It's worth at least 10 times that. You're not selling it to anyone." She runs to the bedroom to find it gone and confronts that no good, lame excuse of a husband. He lies and says it's at his office where he was showing the heirloom to the gentleman.

I forget what happens, but I think you get the picture. Come to think of it, I think he took a bullet.

(Fri May 01 1998 15:17 - ID#340302)
Oh, by the way, did any of you fellas read this article?

Date: Fri May 01 1998 04:56
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It seems the major catalyst to the entire gold price debacle these last few years stems from the Bronfman Commission and its vigorous attempts to get the Swiss Banks to provide compensation to Holocaust victims whose wartimes assets ( primarily gold ) appear to have disappeared from Swiss Banks.

If in fact the Bronfman Commission's charges are true ( and I believe they are ) , then it means that for some fifty years, Swiss bankers have pulled off one of the greatest heists in history. Such grand theft raises interesting questions.

If the Swiss banks managed to steal all this gold with essentially no notable complaint leveled against them for some 50 years, then why stop there? Usually, when a thief succeeds at his larceny, then he does not reform immediately thereafter. No, he figures that if he got away with it once, he can do it again.

So, did the Swiss banks decide that, if they could steal gold from the Jews, they might be able to steal it from their own population? In other words, do the thousands of tons of gold in the Swiss reserves really exist? Or has the majority of these reserves been stolen and disposed of by now? If most of these reserves have been stolen, did the theft take place in actual physical form...or is it theft via paper, i.e., selling a great deal more gold paper than represented by real physical reserves? Were certain central banks in cahoots with Switzerland in effecting this gold ruse? If this scenario is true, then what would be the consequences of Jews demanding physical gold compensation? Would these demands lead to the collapse of a great Swiss gold dissemblance? Would a perpetually collapsing price of gold disincline Jews, financial institutions, and the average investor from demanding physical delivery of the metal, thereby revealing the "empty" gold vaults to the world? Is CB gold leasing merely a subterfuge designed to prevent a real, complete inventory of CB gold reserves?

Many questions to ponder. Many questions to ponder.

It is funny to think that America is making a big deal about UN arms inspectors and the imperative for them to go in and make a real, detailed inventory of nuclear weapons in Iraq. Time and again, Mr. Clinton alerts Americans of the great importance to world peace and safety that such an arms inspection take place.

Yet, maybe it might be equally important to the safety of the world financial system that some international body sends in some gold inspectors to effect a real, inventory of gold reserves, just to make sure that all the gold is really there.




(Fri May 01 1998 15:21 - ID#224149)
Enjoy the Summer and keep your hands in your pocket
If you Imagine Gold is going anywhere but in a trading range then I suggest you stock up on your favorite summer beverages and then short into the fall. ----Away to fill the pool.

(Fri May 01 1998 15:21 - ID#335184)
While I'm sitting up asking for my bone, I forgot to mention $370,000,00.00 yearly loss !! Is this for real, that's a bigger burn rate than a Saturn rocket !!! Is that a typo ??? How could any second tier Au Stock withstand that rate of blood loss ?
Is this normal or is a WHITE KNIGHT the only hope of salvation ???



Lurker 777
(Fri May 01 1998 15:22 - ID#317247)
John Disney
John: Last week Mr. F and his following were trashing RJ for his short term bearish outlook on gold. Then ANOTHER comes on and insinuates RJ is doing something wrong and should talk to his boss. Now that RJs outlook on the price of gold is Right On I thought he deserved a little credit.

I don't play the white metal market but am heavily invested in Gold. Because of RJs outlook I bought some Puts on the Comex and have covered any losses I would of had.
PS: and just an all embracing expression of love and gratitude!

John Disney__A
(Fri May 01 1998 15:22 - ID#24135)
American perceptions
newtron ..
Yes jse is closed ..
the action is all in USA with ADR and a lot
of Yanks dumping as fast as they can. Some
smart dude is getting a bargain. I hope it
trades at 5 rand here monday.
The new NAV should also be out Monday....
Rangy is geared to the syama project through
RRS .. Kebbel said it should start making money
in june. I hope so.
I find it really weird that Americans who
fall all over themselves about investing in
RSA most of which is safer and more secure than
say upstate New York have no problem investing
in Mali or Tanzania ... I rarely lock my car here
or even roll up the windows ... try that in
New York.
Maybe they think Mali is in Louisiana.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 15:23 - ID#384350)
Frustrated, another Klinton joke
Clinton was walking around the White House with a pair of ladies panties on his head. Everyone was looking at him and wondering what he was doing now.

After about an hour one guy got brave enough to ask him what he was doing.

Clinton takes the panties off his head, looks at it and says,

"DAMMIT, now some C*NT has my hat!"

(Fri May 01 1998 15:24 - ID#307271)
Go Gold. It's the world's most reliable form of money. Something we all use as an exchange medium, regardless of other beliefs. Of course if you're a Christian,and apparently you are, many non-Christians believe you should resort to a barter system so you won't appear to be worshipping "Mammon". Double standard, no?

You'll find other Christians on this site, and will also find those of other persuasions on this site. Unfortunately, as in the world, you are welcome to ply your beliefs in anything or in anyone as long as you don't express your faith in Jesus Christ. Isn't it amazing how His Name foments such heinous attacks unlike any other? John 15:18 "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.? 19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 25 "But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, 'They hated Me without a cause.'

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 15:24 - ID#384350)
Frustrated, another Klinton joke
Clinton was walking around the White House with a pair of ladies panties on his head. Everyone was looking at him and wondering what he was doing now.

After about an hour one guy got brave enough to ask him what he was doing.

Clinton takes the panties off his head, looks at it and says,

"DAMMIT, now some C*NT has my hat!"

(Fri May 01 1998 15:32 - ID#340302)
@VRONSKY...yes, sir, your multiple posts DO make sense to me now...
...have you read this article? FAXED it this morning to Edgar Bronfman, Sr. Enjoy.

 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Date: Fri May 01 1998 04:56
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It seems the major catalyst to the entire gold price debacle these last few years stems from the Bronfman Commission and its vigorous attempts to get the Swiss Banks to provide compensation to Holocaust victims whose wartimes assets ( primarily gold ) appear to have disappeared from Swiss Banks.

If in fact the Bronfman Commission's charges are true ( and I believe they are ) , then it means that for some fifty years, Swiss bankers have pulled off one of the greatest heists in history. Such grand theft raises interesting questions.

If the Swiss banks managed to steal all this gold with essentially no notable complaint leveled against them for some 50 years, then why stop there? Usually, when a thief succeeds at his larceny, then he does not reform immediately thereafter. No, he figures that if he got away with it once, he can do it again.

So, did the Swiss banks decide that, if they could steal gold from the Jews, they might be able to steal it from their own population? In other words, do the thousands of tons of gold in the Swiss reserves really exist? Or has the majority of these reserves been stolen and disposed of by now? If most of these reserves have been stolen, did the theft take place in actual physical form...or is it theft via paper, i.e., selling a great deal more gold paper than represented by real physical reserves? Were certain central banks in cahoots with Switzerland in effecting this gold ruse? If this scenario is true, then what would be the consequences of Jews demanding physical gold compensation? Would these demands lead to the collapse of a great Swiss gold dissemblance? Would a perpetually collapsing price of gold disincline Jews, financial institutions, and the average investor from demanding physical delivery of the metal, thereby revealing the "empty" gold vaults to the world? Is CB gold leasing merely a subterfuge designed to prevent a real, complete inventory of CB gold reserves?

Many questions to ponder. Many questions to ponder.

It is funny to think that America is making a big deal about UN arms inspectors and the imperative for them to go in and make a real, detailed inventory of nuclear weapons in Iraq. Time and again, Mr. Clinton alerts Americans of the great importance to world peace and safety that such an arms inspection take place.

Yet, maybe it might be equally important to the safety of the world financial system that some international body sends in some gold inspectors to effect a real, inventory of gold reserves, just to make sure that all the gold is really there.




(Fri May 01 1998 15:32 - ID#32078)
Gold funds in April

April was an excellent month for gold funds, and the leaders were:

percent change

Lexington Strat Invest 23.0

ASA Ltd . 14.1

Gabelli Gold . 11.3

Evergreen Prec Mtls B. 10.9

Van Eck Intl Inv GoldA 10.3

PIMCO Adv Prc Mtls C . 10.2

Amer Cent Global Gold. 10.0

Fidelity Sel Prec Mtls 9.7

Pioneer Gold A . 9.4

USAA Gold . 9.3

found at

(Fri May 01 1998 15:34 - ID#238295)
Gotta say it. RJ may a great short term gold call as did John Disney and Eldorado. Because of their cautious outlook I got out of half my PM fund position just before the big drop and will be looking to repurchase soon. Of course I should have sold it all, but that's life.

On a more positive note the XAU and TGL have rebounded substantially from their lows. And volume is fairly high. Does look like a strong rebound is on tap for next week.

(Fri May 01 1998 15:35 - ID#36156)
Market UP, Market Down, Market Down, Market UP, Market Down ...
I ain't doing a thing 'till I see some daylight in all of this.


Disclaimer ( or is it: Rule to live by? )

ACHTUNG! Alle Touristen und Non-Technischen Lurken Peepers.

Das PM Market ist nicht fur the dumnkopfen odder faintenhartzen. Est ist
gefullt mit spitzensparken, gut callen, und nicht-so-gutten callen by das
experten hier. Est ist grosse important dat du nicht spiel mit plookats
du have nicht van dieses opinionen du diggen. Ist nicht meine fault van
du rubbernecking sightseenen nincompoopers loosen sie shirtsens offen sie
backs. So keepen das cottenpicken plookats in dem pockets, relaxen und enjoy das Kitcomenschen und BartMan shau.

(Fri May 01 1998 15:38 - ID#382234)
Allen, Speed, Hardcase, Chas

Thanks for information.

chas, e-mail me at I would like to see the patent.

Speed-- this link to " gold in them thar ocean" states that there is approximately 1.65 Trillion oz. of gold in the ocean. Maybe that is what scared the market ( hell something did ! ) . just to go on record, Im an old gold bug too. buying june gold @ 301

(Fri May 01 1998 15:39 - ID#258129)
Pls, check your e-mail

(Fri May 01 1998 15:40 - ID#280245)
The Fable of Appetites

Once upon a time, in a land called Finance, there lived a tribe called The Paper People. They lived in a charming village called Fractional Reserve Banking and, all around their village, in fields they tilled with industry, they grew their main crop, debt. They worked diligently and they prospered. Their crop had only one natural enemy, and that predator did not seriously impact the harvest. So, for a time, life was good.

But came a day when one of the village elders, whose name was Red Rubinhood, called the village cultivators together and said, Youre not growing enough debt. The secret of having the very best of all possible villages, is to market the crop in volume. If you dont market in volume, you are going to be out of business very soon. And Red Rubinhood drew some pictures in the sand--which he called Economic Formulas, to show why what he said was true. And the villagers of Fractional Reserve Banking saw the Red RubinHood was showing them a new truth.

Moral #1-- New truths are suspect.

To grow more debt, it was necessary to put more land under cultivation.
So villagers went out from Fractional Reserve Banking to establish new villages, and put new land under cultivation to grow more debt. They worked very hard.

The natural enemy of the debt crop was the Golden Wolf, who lived in the forest surrounding the Village of Fractional Reserve Banking. The Golden Wolf didnt destroy debt. It was his habit to nip it in the bud. Chew off a little here and a little there, because he had an appetite for order and a hunger for proportion. The Golden Wolf worked as CFO for a firm called Balance of Nature, whose mission statement focused on Sustainable Development.

When the Golden Wolf saw that the Villagers were cutting down the forest to clear land and cultivate more debt, and that it looked like they were going to end up clear-cutting the whole forest, he became very concerned and not a little angry at their willful blindness.

Moral #2 --If dont want the Wolf at your door, dont clear a path
for him.

Then one day, Red Rubinhood was traveling through the forest on his way to visit his grandfriends Bill & Hillary. Bill and Hillary had carried so many buckets of political favor to a special spot by the sea, that they had built a mountain they called Political Power, on which summit they now camped. They did not notice that a changing tide was washing away the foundations of their campsite. They didnt believe in tide changes anyway, and nothing can hurt you when your at the top. So they were happy and busy and awaiting Red Rubinhoods visit.

Meanwhile, Red Rubinhood trotting briskly and busily through the forest, suddenly came face to face with the Golden Wolf. The Golden Wolf bared his white, sharp teeth. Red Rubinhood looked, and then said--looking straight into those long, sharp dangerous incisors mind you, You dont have any teeth Golden Wolf! And I am going to tell everyone that you dont have any teeth! And the Golden Wolf laughed
and laughed, showing even more of his dangerous sharp teeth. Which
of course made Red Rubinhood even madder, so he screamed, Ill ruin
you! Youll become a laughing stock!"

And the Golden Wolf became very serious and said, in a quiet voice,
Red Rubinhood, what you do in your part of the forest is your business.
But your villagers are cutting down the entire forest! Other creatures habitats are being destroyed. It has to stop.

Red Rubinhood really became angry. He said, You stupid creature, you dont understand anything. You are the past! I, and my hardworking villagers, are the Future. You dont exist! Your dead!

And so the Golden Wolf, his patience exhausted, broke the habit of a lifetime and ate Red Rubinhood.

Moral #3 -- You can fool Mother Nature--
but only until the Wolf reaches your door...

(Fri May 01 1998 15:42 - ID#252391)
Great little fictional story about the Swiss Bank and the stolen gold, but its alll based on IF the gld was stolen and there is not evidence provided that the gold is stolen.

Come on did I miss something. Its a great story somebody in Hollywood there might make a movie and IF, Farfel, the gold market wasn't falling I'd be alot better off. Seems a few perdictions by the leaders of the bull chorus haven't quite come to pass - oh hey big things just around the corner . . . IFr

(Fri May 01 1998 15:45 - ID#317193)
Perhaps your point has been made. Don't you think?


John Disney__A
(Fri May 01 1998 16:02 - ID#24135)
Im gonna scream
Newtron Newtron Newtron.
That 350 million $ number of yours
is REALLY BIG .. Where did you get it
from ???
Randgold Resources which rangold
holds HALF of lost 40 mill $ but
Ive said about five times now that
was NOT operating loss but was
investment for Syama .
Rangold says they lost 108 mill rand
20 mill $.. paper loss on the sale of
assets and property .. not operating
could that great big number of
perhaps be rand not $ ( just for
starters ?? )
For lurker777 .. if you bought
palladium you might feel different.
I like him anyway .. nothing to do
with PM... I like his silk shorts

(Fri May 01 1998 16:02 - ID#410215)
..... The Great Palladium Mystery .....

I know somebody posted this link already, but the story is worth reading. We know the Russian stockpile is no more, looks like the ore at Norilsk has gone anemic. Palladium will fly, but will be obsolete in auto manufacturing in two years. They're going back to platinum folks. Continuity of supply, that's the ticket.

With no reserves and no stockpile, where do you suppose the palladium they shipped through the end of 1997 came from? I will phrase the rest in question form as this is entirely speculative, but makes good sense, perhaps the only sense.

Who is the largest Palladium holder in the world now? Could it be Tiger? They hold over 2.5 million ounces, right? Did someone mention last year that Tiger would step up and buy everything the Russian have? Has this happened? Has Tiger been financing Russian shipments ( through end of 1997 ) taking a large slice of the pie, while shipping the metal the Russians need to ship so desperately?

If the answers to those questions are yes, this removes the threat of large-scale dumping by Tiger. Has anyone here wondered why we have heard so little about Tiger while palladium was at record highs? Always good to have a low profile, when the big deals are working.

The action you see in platinum is because even the largest funds are afraid of palladium. Platinum is the surrogate. There are no palladium supplies. What would you do if you had to deliver June palladium, but you could find none? Would not your only choice be to go to the platinum market? Would this not be the only proper hedge against a palladium short? Mysterious, nonexistent, and completely imaginary but highly placed insiders think the answers to many of the questions are, yes?

Uh Huh

Eldo -

I sold no gold. Do you not trust me? I am a bit gleeful though; only about 3 - 4 dollars upside down on my gold shorts. I will look to cover soon and be done with these cursed shorts. A pox on the houses of all gold shorters!!!!!!!!!!! They do nothing but suck the marrow right out of the long players bones. It just isn't fair.....

Huh Uh

(Fri May 01 1998 16:10 - ID#339274)
FWIW Aside of taking the opportunity in buying more Rangy.
The copper futures showed unusual bullish gyrations that
could affect the precious metals within the next three months.
Look at the multi year weekly Bond and Copper charts.

(Fri May 01 1998 16:11 - ID#317193)
I was scared in January when I bailed out of the Dow/Nas. stocks. I keep watching and all I can do is say a prayer that this bubble does not pop. If it does none of us will like the result.

Physical gold and silver in your retirement account can be obtained by buying CEF-Central fund Canada. I think RJ and Silverbaron told me that. Maybe some other posters too.

Stops on my futures contracts saved my butt. Just could not resist two Dec. Contracts @ $309. Hated to lose the Dec. contract @ $299. Such is life. Just start over.

Brother oris- no vodka til spot at $318. Bad situation but I have high hopes.

Ferrets-have three. Crazy little animals. Never have them if you have children under one years old.


(Fri May 01 1998 16:12 - ID#410215)
..... Not I .....

JD -

I have traded nary a single ounce of palladium since last July. Too volatile. The trade is in platinum. It will go up and stay up.



Thanks Sevens

(Fri May 01 1998 16:14 - ID#269191)
Couldn't resist and bought some more. From what I've seen the company's
fundamentals look good and its constituent parts are worth more than
the whole. Hope they break it up. Either way, I expect to make
alot of money.

John Disney__A
(Fri May 01 1998 16:14 - ID#24135)
Gold and Silver factoid (?? ) factorino (??)
to all
Just for info .. gold has been outperforming
silver since about mid December.
Gold has been outperforming platinum since
mid March.
I hope we get a gold run up to just under that
crummy island reversal .. then Im outta here and
let those stops under 300 BLOW.
Bedtime I quit

(Fri May 01 1998 16:16 - ID#340302)
The BAD news is....
...NO report today on the gold market from your old friend, F*. Going to Laguna with the wife for a nice break and fun in the sun. Probably will post again on Monday afternoon.

The GOOD fell almost $5.00 today.

Oh, by the way, did you read this article?

Date: Fri May 01 1998 04:56
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It seems the major catalyst to the entire gold price debacle these last few years stems from the Bronfman Commission and its vigorous attempts to get the Swiss Banks to provide compensation to Holocaust victims whose wartimes assets ( primarily gold ) appear to have disappeared from Swiss Banks.

If in fact the Bronfman Commission's charges are true ( and I believe they are ) , then it means that for some fifty years, Swiss bankers have pulled off one of the greatest heists in history. Such grand theft raises interesting questions.

If the Swiss banks managed to steal all this gold with essentially no notable complaint leveled against them for some 50 years, then why stop there? Usually, when a thief succeeds at his larceny, then he does not reform immediately thereafter. No, he figures that if he got away with it once, he can do it again.

So, did the Swiss banks decide that, if they could steal gold from the Jews, they might be able to steal it from their own population? In other words, do the thousands of tons of gold in the Swiss reserves really exist? Or has the majority of these reserves been stolen and disposed of by now? If most of these reserves have been stolen, did the theft take place in actual physical form...or is it theft via paper, i.e., selling a great deal more gold paper than represented by real physical reserves? Were certain central banks in cahoots with Switzerland in effecting this gold ruse? If this scenario is true, then what would be the consequences of Jews demanding physical gold compensation? Would these demands lead to the collapse of a great Swiss gold dissemblance? Would a perpetually collapsing price of gold disincline Jews, financial institutions, and the average investor from demanding physical delivery of the metal, thereby revealing the "empty" gold vaults to the world? Is CB gold leasing merely a subterfuge designed to prevent a real, complete inventory of CB gold reserves?

Many questions to ponder. Many questions to ponder.

It is funny to think that America is making a big deal about UN arms inspectors and the imperative for them to go in and make a real, detailed inventory of nuclear weapons in Iraq. Time and again, Mr. Clinton alerts Americans of the great importance to world peace and safety that such an arms inspection take place.

Yet, maybe it might be equally important to the safety of the world financial system that some international body sends in some gold inspectors to effect a real, inventory of gold reserves, just to make sure that all the gold is really there.




(Fri May 01 1998 16:19 - ID#212197)
@SDRer: I like your "once upon a time"....
and I also wanted to thank you for your empiric data and your research.

I'm afraid some people will tell you now that you changed over to the "cryptic" camp.

Alberich the Dwarf

P.S.: Did you find out anything about these six nominations at the BIS, which are made by the six major member CBs of BIS? You reported about this the other day. It might give us an idea what financial dynasties have influence at the BIS.

(Fri May 01 1998 16:20 - ID#269191)
The U.S. economy.
It's slowly and quietly slowing in response to the swelling trade
deficit. This process will continue until we go into recession.
With the Euro providing competition for reserve currency status, the
dollar should respond to the slowing economy and swelling trade
deficit by entering a bear market. With the Fed rapidly expanding
the supply of money and credit, stagflation will be the result.
Forget the short term trades buy gold and gold shares ( particularly
high operating leverage S.A.s and make lots of money. Patience is

(Fri May 01 1998 16:25 - ID#317193)
My stops were set above my average price on all my contracts thanks, in part, to the posts by you and other infidels. Today the stops got blown by but only by .40 to the downside.

To buy a contract requires a seller-Yes? Tis my bet I make and live with-Yes?

Good trading to you.


(Fri May 01 1998 16:30 - ID#253418)
Enough already Farfel
Your fiction is great, but you are parading it around with numerous posts as if it is fact.

What if there is no conspriacy to drive gold down, what if it's just falling because there are more independant self modivated unconnected sellers than buyers . ..

What IF.....
your story is a wonderful what if.....

enough already....
take it to Hollywood.

Have a nice trip to the beach.

Over and out to the conspirators. . . ..

(Fri May 01 1998 16:32 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 30.28 A year ago the ratio was 20.56. The all time high is 30.54 set on March 20, 1998.

(Fri May 01 1998 16:32 - ID#390415)
Hubbell indicted
Just like the government to blame everything on a telescope.

(Fri May 01 1998 16:36 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .284 A year ago the ratio was .277

(Fri May 01 1998 16:37 - ID#31868)
Checked and rechecked, not in yet.

(Fri May 01 1998 16:38 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 49.20 A year ago the ratio was 71.72

(Fri May 01 1998 16:43 - ID#390415)
CNN: "Hubbell attorney says no chance of Star deal"
This thing is heating up...

(Fri May 01 1998 16:44 - ID#288369)
@Duisenberg's our man......

(Fri May 01 1998 16:50 - ID#410215)
..... The Biggest Question of the Day .....

Does anybody remember the biggest sellers of gold in the last two years?

Australia, yes?

Belgium, yes?

Holland, YES?

Seems a man who is very comfortable selling gold outright from the vaults will now be in charge of the coveted ECB.

This is very interesting.


(Fri May 01 1998 16:54 - ID#390415)
CB talk (comin' back at ya', good buddy!)
"It used to be, when countries were on the 'gold standard,' that politicians would be definitely restricted in the printing of more money. Gold was money, and gold came about as a result of increased productivity, not because a desperate bunch of politicians cranked up the printing presses. To get around this problem, central banks were created, indeed, our central bank [Canada's], in the mid-1930s, was created because we went off the gold standard and because we wanted to keep the levers of the printing presses as far away from the politicians as possible. The central bank was given extraordinary power and authority to carry out its mandate: to maintain a stable currency in the country."

taken from a commentary by Peter Landry

(Fri May 01 1998 16:55 - ID#372262)

Don't just do something, sit there!

(Fri May 01 1998 16:56 - ID#288369)
@ A Euro-Greenspan....Inflation #1 priority.

(Fri May 01 1998 16:57 - ID#368244)

I would be the first to admit I know very little about SA stocks. Would someone explain to me how Rangy can loose more money than the entire value of the stock.

If it is undervalued by this much what is the reason? If these are investment expenses ( one time ) it should be a heck of a deal, if not buyer beware.

(Fri May 01 1998 16:58 - ID#341189)
"China's Currency At Risk!"
This is the headline of a mail teaser I received today from the Bank Credit Analyst. Does anyone here shell out the big bucks to get the BCA or get it at work? The current issue presumably "explores how a Chinese currency devaluation would exacerbate global deflationary pressures and how it would affect North American and European equity markets, which are already showing clear indications of massive overvaluation." I was surprised to see the inflamatory hype from BCA. They are usually quite conservative. I would appreciate an impression from anyone who has seen the current issue.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:00 - ID#26793)
Maybe we can sic the Bronfman Commission on the U.S. government for the gold that was stolen from my father and grandfathers. Why just Switzerland? A gold thief is a gold thief.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:00 - ID#41170)
place your bets and wait patiently
Date: Fri May 01 1998 16:20
DEJ ( The U.S. economy. ) ID#269191:
With the Fed rapidly expanding
the supply of money and credit, stagflation will be the result.
Forget the short term trades buy gold and gold shares ( particularly high operating leverage S.A.s and make lots of money. Patience is required.


Tally Ho

(Fri May 01 1998 17:05 - ID#288369)
Tell me you didn't sell your rangy, please.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 17:09 - ID#384350)
Prechter calls Gold market "fragile"
He says gold is positioned to resume its bear market. Says there is/was too much bullish sentiment ( Go Gold! ) , and a 3 wave rally.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:10 - ID#31868)
try this in addition to the other.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:10 - ID#26793)
@Carl: I found this from two days before the October plunge.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:10 - ID#288295)

Filled the tank up with el cheapo RANGY ( HI TEST ) today...Tally Ho! ( back at ya )

(Fri May 01 1998 17:14 - ID#26793)
@Carl: Bank Credit Analyst site here

PH in LA
(Fri May 01 1998 17:16 - ID#225408)
Hey Farfel!
You are a bore. You don't know when to stop. Now would be a good time!

Thank you,

Mr. Mick
(Fri May 01 1998 17:16 - ID#345321)
RJ - don't forget Argentina............
they sold every last ounce they had to A. Greenspan & Co.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:17 - ID#368244)
@ Studio

Studio my friend, yes I sold 62000 shares yesterday, @1 3/8 . Today I bought back 20000 @1 1/16 , but I got to tell ya, I wish I knew more about how bussiness is handled over there.

If it was not for Disney, and what I believe to be expert advice, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:18 - ID#372262)
K-TEL UP 10+!!!

Must be all those 'Golden Oldies' makin' a comeback on the internet! We're TOPPIN' BY MAY 15!

(Fri May 01 1998 17:21 - ID#201238)
comex data
COMEX Metal Warehouse Statistics for May 1
Gold 658,493 + 97 troy ounces
Silver 89,715,372 + 1,158,939 troy ounces
Copper 106,537 - 1,104 short tons

no change in eligible gold stocks

(Fri May 01 1998 17:22 - ID#253418)
Germany, France and Italy
These key countries have the votes to set the course of the Euro not the smaller coutries that sold the gold.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:23 - ID#41170)
Silverbaron and Isure- don't forget about possibly the BEST GOLD

Tally Ho

(Fri May 01 1998 17:25 - ID#238422)
TYoung(It's an old POG and Smirnoff trick..)
Brother Tom,

I hate to see a good man sitting w/o good drink.
It makes no sense, because we drink in both sadness
and joy, and also for fun any time we're in the mood.

In regard to your drinking permission stop at $318 -
- I say this stop will be taken out soon ( 6-8 days max. ) ,
so go to the store and get some good stuff - Black-n-White
Snirnoff Mellow Vodka. If I'm wrong, I'll buy it from you
for any price, I would need it badly...

(Fri May 01 1998 17:27 - ID#288369)
Cool. The company will be liquidated by the end of the year according to Flack. My oil partner and I spent the morning going through all the data we could find....quite a bit of info. really....looks like they have a break-up value from $5-7, to us....maybe more.....income should begin to flow in the fall, write-off's are mostly behind them. If the POG holds....could be a helluva' deal. Again, all of this is based on what the co. and Randgold Resources has released to the public. I think it's a good bet....BET, is the operative term.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:27 - ID#368244)
@ Ray

My order for more is in now , just need the price to fall a wee more.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:28 - ID#288295)

Oh, we've got a pile of Mr. DROOY - started bringing him home way back in December....BTW - R. Nolan still lookin for a big pop in gold this summer?

(Fri May 01 1998 17:30 - ID#317193)
Is good advice to be prepared. It will be done. Yes? Tom

(Fri May 01 1998 17:30 - ID#390415)
Econ 101 by Joel Swadesh
"To recapitulate, the Federal Reserve determines the supply of money and therefore the demand for money. This is called monetary policy. The Federal government, the largest single consumer in the economy, can raise or lower the demand for money through its spending, which is called fiscal policy."

(Fri May 01 1998 17:32 - ID#410215)
..... No Saviors There .....

And last year, Germany decided, for the first time ever, to lease over 300 tons of gold for forward sales.

The French do what they always do: Whatever they damn well want to do.

The Italians bring what to the table? The Lira?

This is not a rosy picture.

Huh uh

(Fri May 01 1998 17:32 - ID#252150)
Gianni Dioro@Love your vision of the young cloned AG & RR in th Brazilian bordello.
I can see them with Elvis & James Dean at the bar & Humphrey Bogart as the bartender.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:33 - ID#238422)
Yes.Be prepared.By the way, don't forget pickles...

(Fri May 01 1998 17:35 - ID#26793)
"Too strong" British pound has exports down 18%; manufacturers demand relief.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 17:38 - ID#384350)
James, Brasilian Bordellos
Hey, if everybody gets laid, I'm happy.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:39 - ID#238422)
This is not a rosy picture...
so they will fix it.
No fools live there, yes?

(Fri May 01 1998 17:40 - ID#410215)
..... This truly is a correction to a prior post .....

Does anybody remember the biggest sellers of gold in the last two years?

Australia, yes?

Belgium, yes?

Argentina, yes? ( Mr. Mick say's yes. )

Holland, YES?

Seems a man who is very comfortable selling gold outright from the vaults will now be in charge of the coveted ECB.

This is very interesting.



(Fri May 01 1998 17:43 - ID#368244)

Going deep sea fishing this weekend with my 13 year old son, off the coast of Louisiana. It will be his first time. Last year I brought home over a 100 pounds of snapper filets, needless to say he is very excited.

Do you ever make it to Louisiana, if so we'll have to get together.

OK Bart! Go gold!

Aragorn III
(Fri May 01 1998 17:46 - ID#212323)
Let there be no doubt...I welcome the price movement of gold these 3 days
I add to the glowing pile this day. As it grows only larger, untouchable by market sentiment, I know my legacy is for the ages. Got matches?

(Fri May 01 1998 17:49 - ID#238422)
Gianni Dioro\Statement from the Kremlin
Dear comrade Gianni,

We like your attitude. All of us in Mother Russia
got laid already, and we need a happy person to work
for us at Norilsk mines, otherwise we will never deliver.

Contact our Embassy for entry visa...

(Fri May 01 1998 17:49 - ID#390415)
The thoughts of Xavier Poez
A major CTL ( conspiracy theory literature ) theme is on the illegitimacy of the currency system in the country. It insists that world bankers can impose a kind of a hidden tax on currency via inflation and interest rates. It asserts that the federal reserve system is an inherently corrupt and parasitical system, draining away wealth from the country via interest payments on the national debt.

CTL states that the IRS is an illegitimate agency that was never legally approved by law. CTL suggests that world bankers snuck in the laws to support both the Federal Reserve and the IRS to implement a system of hidden taxation on the entire American public.

CTL insists that the depression of 1929 was artificially caused by world bankers who wished to put the American economy under a greater yolk, and seize the country's gold and assets at reduced rates.

Particularly of interest to CTL are developments that affect the way the population uses money or the way that it is backed. For example, the move to the Gold standard and the moves away from it by Nixon are seen as highly relevant. Also new electronic developments in the flow of money... are watched closely by CTL writers who believe that the world order wants to impose a global currency for purposes of control.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:51 - ID#57232)
Gold Down again, dollar down
Gianni Dioro, Alberich: I thought at first the gold down we had yesterday

was just a twitch from the glowing Goldilocks economy news we had. But -- now the US dollar is down too -- 1% in French Franks and 1% in Marks? This is another matter entirely. We need to be on our toes right now, because whoever is selling dollars may be selling gold too! I don't want to be long anything if we repeat Oct 97 or Oct 87. Donald -- any clues?

What I am hoping for is a gradual realization that there is trouble in Denmark, as then gold/gold stocks will have time to go up. If we have a blinding flash type of crisis, all paper will burn.

Old Gold: I also cut my gold stock holdings. I'm now at 20% gold stocks, 10% Computer stocks, rest cash. Should have bought energy stocks at the market bottom. Like you, I probably should have cut more, but I think we are at gold bottom, and when this gold market turns it is likely to turn quickly. All I fear is the blinding flash -- or equivalently the breakup of the Gold bug Tsunami on the beach.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:52 - ID#288369)
90% chance daughter#2 transferring to LSU in the fall....heck, she looks cajun...right now, Lini and I are reading her LSU acceptance material that we received this afternoon, and some Pi Phi stuff. "Isure" it's cheaper than K.U., where she is now....see ya' down there.

Sorry, Bart...hell, join a rod 'n reel...if you don't I got ya' covered.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:52 - ID#252150)
Old Gold@Timing Jiggles--tsk tsk tsk!!. Shortly after I posted that I had sold some
ABX last week, did'nt you warn about the futility of trying to time the mkt? Nah, must have been some unsophisticated neophyte.

(Fri May 01 1998 17:54 - ID#335184)
Why has DD won your ardor over all others ? What about Randfontein or Hgmcy ?



(Fri May 01 1998 17:55 - ID#28594)
Alberich--I'm glad and thanks! re: BIS
feelers out, but this is a busy weekend...the issue is being worked, however.
re: being cryptic--it's all the rage! {:- ) ) )

Cage Rattler
(Fri May 01 1998 17:56 - ID#33182)
Stocks on the JSE
One of the best resources for information on South African stocks trading on the JSE can be found at

(Fri May 01 1998 17:57 - ID#215208)
What do you know? Closed UP 1/32 for the day. Who put in those big market orders?

(Fri May 01 1998 17:59 - ID#238295)
JTF: I am now 12% gold funds and the rest in money funds. I plan to go back to 25% gold stocks soon. The one encouraging thing about today's action was the very good performance of the gold stock indexes considering. XAU off 2.5% and TGL ( Toronto Gold Index ) down just 1.4%. Not bad on a day when POG fell over four bucks.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 17:59 - ID#384350)
Comrade Oris
Got your message. Throw in a crate of Vodka each month and a couple of Ukranian comfort women, and you've got a deal.

(Fri May 01 1998 18:01 - ID#57232)
ECB and likely new head
RJ: Interesting comments. If the ECB fails to support the Euro with meaningful gold reserves, it will almost certainly fail to compete with the US dollar -- not even a short-term race until the SEAsian gold -backed currency is launched, as outlined by SDRer. Perhaps that is a reason why the BIS has opened up an office in Hong Kong. Why not, if Europe is setting itself up to fail? Y2K will not help the situation.

If Germany does not have the ECB within German borders, I doubt they will 'sell' their gold, or otherwise transfer it.

On the other hand, once the ECB clearly starts to falter, we will have a repeat of the 1993 era when George Soros et al went after the Bank of England -- a full fledged international currency crisis and a strong gold bull. The US dollar would go up again as well.

Let us pray that does not happen until after the SEAsian situation is resolved, otherwise we know what the outcome would be.

(Fri May 01 1998 18:07 - ID#252150)
POG@under 300 for 1 or 2 quarters is what we need in order to get the mkt into a position from
where it can really blast off. We need to close down another dozen or so marginal producers. First I had better sell my Rangy. The CBs will never let it happen though. I doubt if we would stay under 300 for more than 2 or 3 days.

(Fri May 01 1998 18:16 - ID#238295)
Looks like the dogs of 10:00 AM have been replaced by the grizzlies of 2:00 PM. Interesting how the selling began at virtually the same time yesterday and today.

(Fri May 01 1998 18:16 - ID#57232)
Thanks for your post
Old Gold: I hope these two gold down days are not a prelude for another gold fire sale/mystery currency crash. If so, even 10%-20% in gold stocks will be traumatic. I know the CB's will not allow any meaningful drop below $280/oz for more than a few days regardless of which country melts down, if that is the problem.

By the way, I will use this time as an opportunity to buy more physical gold, but unfortunately the St.Gaudens coins I like so much seem to be going up steadily. I doubt that anything short of a 6 month bear in gold bullion would lead to a cheaper St. Gaudens gold coin price.

Neva Happen.

(Fri May 01 1998 18:20 - ID#238422)
Gianni Dioro\Response from the Kremlin
Comrade Dioro,

We like your attitude even more...

However, as we stated, ALL of us
got laid already, so no comfort
women are available at this time.
Also, our crate of vodka is empty,
and for this reason we stopped working
and got laid waiting for a naturally
happy person like yourself to come over...

We want to thank you very much and will stay
open for any other suggestions you may have.

Thank you again for your readiness to get
drunk and to get laid in Mother Russia.
We need foreigh investors.

(Fri May 01 1998 18:24 - ID#390415)
AU down, but FDPMX...
Hanging on pretty well. ?????

(Fri May 01 1998 18:25 - ID#238295)
JTF: If gold was going down for the count, the gold stocks would have been much weaker today.

BTW, someone posted here recently that a floor trader told him to buy under $300 and sell around $316. Sounds like good advice.

The big problem with gold and gold stocks is that the smart money sees them primarily as trading vehicles. We will never get a rip roaring bull until the smart money sees gold and gold stocks as promising INVESTMENTS to be bought and held.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 18:26 - ID#384350)
JTF and all, Gold Selling
It's true that gold falling while the dollar was weak is not encouraging, and like you said. Note that these were sharp drops in the futures prices taking place in minutes without any news backing it.

Gold selling by CB's is desperation, either by the CB that sells or by someone else who tells the CB to sell. I think that this gold selling is the only way that they can prevent the markets/currencies from collapsing without hyperinflation.

Govt debt levels are so high that in some countries, ever larger portions of that nation's production will equate to interest on the debt. With Govt defaults looking more and more probable, maybe that is why we have seen a concerted effort by world CB's to have low interest rates on Govt bonds. These low interest rates have also enabled most of these 11 Euro nations to meet Maastricht criteria on deficits.

The Rothschilds did not gain world dominance by selling its gold, definitely the contrary. They will never sell.

What we may be seeing is a battle between the Hatfield's and the McCoys ( Read: Rockefellers and Rothschild Dynasties ) .

This IMF vs BIS could be along these lines.

(Fri May 01 1998 18:27 - ID#41170)
newton- all the facts and reasons are in the November issue of
Gold Newsletter. I understand new subscribers get a free copy.
I went to DD and came to the same conclusion for my money.
Harmony is also varry good, has the RICHEST gold deposit in SA
now with the purchase of Cons Modder. Randfontein is OK but for
the risk of the market I plan to get the most for my money and
DD and Harmony should do jest that.

Tally Ho

(Fri May 01 1998 18:30 - ID#288369)
I'm an investor....this trading crap confuses.......
the heck outta' wheels can't run at that speed anymore ( gladly ) ...i.e., Hey, the banks could have sold/leased their gold last week, they can sell/lease it today or they can ditch it tomorrow.....Why is it now the best time to concentrate real hard and GUESS? As it relates to my long-ball swing, I just don't snap to what has really changed....If they're sellers....they'll sell. If they're confused...they'll hold. If they're buyers....they better get their ol' check-book out. For the great part, I don't think these modern banker will spend their earnings to hold gold...until they have been "matured" by the lesson of their lifetime.

(Fri May 01 1998 18:47 - ID#31868)
Studio_r - don't let it get to you. I have been accumulating
TNX, ING, OROP, never see them mentioned here. In addition I have been gobbling up CFB, FSR, and I am dying for the market to get whacked so I can hammer shares of PWN, RYG and ITRO... Go figure!

(Fri May 01 1998 18:50 - ID#253418)
My 10 Cents worth .. or what's left of it
Three things strike me:
1 ) This decline in gold occurred right before and during a holiday for most of Europe and right before a major meeting of ERUO countires.
2 ) If their is any organization to this selling, which I have doubts about, it certainly would seem to be, as an earlier post noted, an effort to keep the lid on gold to discredit it before the summit and to keep a lid on it. If gold were to start flying the GBs and the FED would have to respond with higher interest rates thus choaking off the economies of the industrila nation. In that regard maybe they are doing us a favor.
3 ) The dollar was weak and oil was strong - these things can not persit and gold continue to sink.

Therefore, I am of the belief that Monday morning we will see a rebound in gold and gold mining shares, a consolidatin period may emerge, here but once the Euro has some credability and CB sales cease which I think they will or did this week ( ref. Feneroso ) gold will start to ascend.

It seems to me that gold rise following any organized effort to keep it in check will have profound negative consequences for the US and Asian economiesa

(Fri May 01 1998 18:55 - ID#253418)
Appreciate all facts about Harmony
As an owner now of Harmony ( HGMCY ) I sure appreciate the perspective and fundlemental data on this issue that I have found at others direction. Keep it coming please......

(Fri May 01 1998 18:56 - ID#347235)
@ Farfel

(Fri May 01 1998 18:58 - ID#347235)
@ f*

(Fri May 01 1998 19:02 - ID#347235)
@ f*
The reason for the first two is to remind you that multiple posts are for knotheads. It is not necessary to post the same lengthy article 5 or more times in the same day, most of us can get the point after reading it once.

I know you like to see your name in print a lot, kind of like a guy with a little penis thinks he needs a big car, guys with a small brain think they need to write stupid things over and over.

(Fri May 01 1998 19:12 - ID#26669)
They'll have to pry my palladium from my cold dead fingers? Nah.
they'll offer to give me a good swap for gold of course.;^ )

Thanks for the info, R.J. Its always good to know just a little bit more when one is into PGM investing.

In return, let me give you a little bit of trivia information. Palladium has one very uncommonly known quality. According to one of my textbooks, when it is cast in an alloy of 80% Pd and 20% Au it becomes a hard, tough metal. This particular alloy, when made into parts like springs or even knife blades is reputed to have qualities similar to some grades of tool steel. To my knowledge Pt will not do this. If nothing else this would have great potential in the development of complex fictional movie plots. IMHO

(Fri May 01 1998 19:13 - ID#341189)
One more time - The XAU is too high relative to gold
There have been 18 wks in the last 14+ years when the XAU finnished the week between 85 and 86. The XAU/AU ratio averaged .241 for those weeks with a St. Dev. of .02. The ratio today was .284, the highest ever for the XAU at this level and 2 Standard Deviations above the average level.

Mike Sheller
(Fri May 01 1998 19:15 - ID#347447)
Oh ye of little faith...and b*lls!
After giving me and Jim Rogers a hard time just a few days ago about being either bearish or skeptical about gold, you gave the impression that you were a diehard in-it-to-the-end gold bull, and anyone less was some sort of heretic that should be burned at the stake. Then you have the nerve to post the following TODAY:

Date: Fri May 01 1998 15:34
OLD GOLD ( ) ID#238295:
Gotta say it. RJ may a great short term gold call as did John Disney and Eldorado.Because of their cautious outlook I got out of half my PM fund position just before the big drop and will be looking to repurchase soon. Of course I should have sold it all, but that's life.
On a more positive note the XAU and TGL have rebounded substantially from their lows.
And volume is fairly high. Does look like a strong rebound is on tap for next week.

Date: Fri May 01 1998 17:59
OLD GOLD ( ) ID#238295:
JTF: I am now 12% gold funds and the rest in money funds. I plan to go back to 25% gold stocks soon. The one encouraging thing about today's action was the very good
performance of the gold stock indexes considering. XAU off 2.5% and TGL ( Toronto
Gold Index ) down just 1.4%. Not bad on a day when POG fell over four bucks.

So because of RJ's "cautious outlook" you du,mped half your gold. But you aqccused me so freely of being influenced by Jim Rogers' bearishness when I TOLD you that I was trying to co0nvince him to buy gold. You hypocrite.
If this is what you think is a downer, a few bucks down on gold, and something to sell out a position on ( a position that turns out to be quite timid for one who defends a bullish gold stance so ebulliently and unforgivingly ) then I say you are a fraud, sir, and not fit to question gold bears or anyone else for that matter. As you asked ME, and I answered in an unequivocally bullish manner, what is YOUR opinion on gold? Please desist after this timid and scurrilous action, from taking anyone who voices concerns about gold's ability to bull from here on in. You have exposed yourself as someone who has some sort of juvenile need to always appear right, excusing yourself when it suits you, but acting quite the witch hunter with anyone else with whom you disagree. I think you owe Mr Rogers a very contrite apology, and should you refuse to acknowledge the wisdom of his bearishness, even unto this moment in which you turned tail yourself, then you should do some soul searching and keep your judgementalism to yourself.

(Fri May 01 1998 19:15 - ID#368244)
@ Studio
Check E- MAIL

(Fri May 01 1998 19:19 - ID#288295)
INPATHIQUE update May 1

(Fri May 01 1998 19:22 - ID#270447)
Preacher's Market Comments
Preacher: Your market comments are much appreciated. Great job.

We stopped very close to your $302 level today. XAU really overvalued compared to current gold price.

(Fri May 01 1998 19:23 - ID#195112)
You guys will love this. CNBC just reported that the chairman of the Bank of Japan has hung himself.

(Fri May 01 1998 19:24 - ID#31868)
SilverBaron - don't have any of my peyote left.
What does that graph mean. Hey Sheller, the Platinum ring is way cool!

(Fri May 01 1998 19:25 - ID#403274)
F* -2.32518

(Fri May 01 1998 19:27 - ID#290118)
Gold for common folk
I reiterate an unpopular view:
Our new global monetary system runs on paper and an ever growing proportion of virtual money ( cyberciphers ) . This enables currencies to be instantly traded worldwide without being weighed down by physical assets. As currency systems become more integrated as exemplified by the Euro and perhaps a Pan-Asian Yen and a Pan-American Dollar then foreign exchange becomes less of a factor. With each of these currencies being "backed by" the other two currencies why, pray tell, would they need Gold reserves?
The CBs could freeze Gold out of the system altogether.
As they sell, lease, have stolen or otherwise get rid of their Gold ( and there seems to be a significant case for U.S. Gold to be long gone - 263 million ounces indeed - on paper maybe ) what exposure do they have to a drop in the POG!
Each of knows very well what we would do if we could manipulate the POG into the basement. As insiders we would bluff the world with a blizzard of paper and fancy bookkeeping while we sold out at good prices. All the conspirators would have to sell the last of their Gold at more or less the same time. Any CB lagging behind would transfer/sell their Gold to others who could still liquidate some more. Once everyone ( CBs and friends ) are out of the market the facade can come down - though it would be maintained as long as possible to placate the masses.

Miners know this tactic by another name. Its called the room and pillar method. Pull out all the coal except for a few pillars to hold the roof ( back ) up. Then on the way out pull the pillars ( or maybe leave 'em in if you don't want the surface to collapse before you can get out of town ) .

As RJ posted on 4/30 at 02:28 in response to my posts...

"Is the reason a new view of gold? Are numbers on a balance sheet enough? I will make one prediction though, If this view continues, gold will die in our lifetimes."

What is wrong with this scenario?
What would be the POG if it was completely demonetized by the official international currency systems - if the only use for it was jewelry, electronics, and pet-"rocks" for gold bugs?

I, for one, still hold to the idea ( and hope ) that it would be used by the common folk in a hand-to-hand pocket-to-pocket economy out of sight of thieving government bureaucrats. Of course it would be illegal. Anyone caught with a gold coin ( or any coin ) especially if they were "trading" would be thrown into the dungeons under the local IRS blockhouse.

(Fri May 01 1998 19:27 - ID#388209)

Spent my whole day with my liver in a quiver trying to brown nose my way into scraps of information from the Great Mouster & what do you know, it's the only dang stock in my portfolio that fights it way into a profit !!!
SHEEEEEEEE DOGGIES, Jeththro ain't she a marvel !!!!



(Fri May 01 1998 19:28 - ID#317193)
It is a good day to be alive
The alternative is death. Smile, be happy. Tom bbl

(Fri May 01 1998 19:34 - ID#288295)
tolerant1 @ Inpathique
It beats the hell outta me - but like Mr. Sheller's Astrology, if it works I'll use it. That chart is a little piece of the big forecast chart, which shows a top in late July and precipitous downtrend thereafter. This may be only a curiosity, but I've been watching this forecasting system a few weeks now, the actual index path is tracking well with the forecasted path. Here's the big chart:

(Fri May 01 1998 19:37 - ID#432148)
Theoretically you are correct but let us not forget human nature. What happens when people start losing faith in the euro, dollar, yen and as you suggest, in a "black market" start using something like gold for value exchange? Or we could have a barter system. Will this happen some day. Perhaps. What are the odds? That is why posters here have their insurance I guess. ( Or are traders in the PMs ) .

(Fri May 01 1998 19:42 - ID#288369)
T#1....I know that you know what you do so well. You have the resources and experience that enable you to make a identify an opportunity, you study it in an analytical manner and then you force your idea to contend with your experience-based knowledge. If the idea survives this examination and test, you then commit your funds. Then the awesome power of your patience is applied to your quest. In most cases, you have succeeded...for you have determined the outcome.

Trading is another matter, if you are like me, you may be ill-equipped to execute an investment in this manner. These executions require intense observation and analysis of market forces and events that are invisible to me where I am stationed. Unpredictable, or at the very best "probable", events occur on an indeterminent schedule that move the markets like a wild wind. If I wanted to trade, I would locate myself in the middle of a trading pen at the appropriate exchange...then I would at least know I had a chance to react to the market forces at the same time as my trading adversaries.

The reason I say this is that I believe most of my fellow Kitcoites are similar to me and my conditions. I feel most of us must concentrate on what we can do....we can research, make an investment and wait. And I realize that we should not sit idly and fail to cut loses short, but we should take considerable pause to convince ourselves that the rudimentary premises that formed the basis for our investment decision have indeed changed. Otherwise, we should do what we do best...wait.

(Fri May 01 1998 19:44 - ID#288295)

Me too - only I would have made a LOT of money on RANGY today, if my arfhole broker hadn't been out of the office until 3:00. aarrgghh! Wanted to buy it for a dollar really bad....

(Fri May 01 1998 19:48 - ID#288156)
Squirrel --interesting read, but
if what you suggest were true, why do the Central Banks bother to keep THEIR accounts in the Gold Franc?

(Fri May 01 1998 19:49 - ID#393224)
Just got up -- one quickie.
Look at DJ's excellent 'channels' charts. This is what gold is SUPPOSED to do. Normal state of affairs if we get a pullback to high 290's BBML.

(Fri May 01 1998 19:49 - ID#429121)
Internet voice phone

Has anyone else tried the internet long distance voice service yet? I just downloaded and hooked into MicroSoft's free phone net service... Pretty neat, but not a whole lot of talkers hooked up. Come on y'all, all it costs is about $10 for a microphone and about an hour of download and experimentation time... I think the url is
and then search for net.meeting ( or something to that effect ) ... Let me know what you think ( )


Glad you're back on line... Cool... heard you were out gettin' "some"... Feel better now? Good, now back to work!

Now, how bad is my silver gonna get creamed this time?

(Fri May 01 1998 19:59 - ID#429121)
URL for Microsoft net.meeting

(Fri May 01 1998 20:02 - ID#286199)
Belgian gold sale rumor caused market dip...
Kudos to SI "Gold Price Monitor"

Go here:

and then here: NY Precious Metals Review: Jun gold dn on Belgian talk

(Fri May 01 1998 20:11 - ID#238422)
Your idea is based on assumption that everybody
in the world considers everybody to be brother
or sister or ....listen to this very carefully!
all weapons are eliminated. In this case gold
is no power anymore and nobody needs it, correct.

Now, think about realistic time frame of these
events to happen. When? Not tomorrow, yes?

As Another would say, lets think "long and hard"...

(Fri May 01 1998 20:16 - ID#31868)
SilverBaron - looked at the big chart, having flashbacks now,

(Fri May 01 1998 20:20 - ID#215208)
Nick@C - I guess so, but must say I was disappointed that gold didn't touch the channel top before it dropped. I would then have been happy to take boat loads of profits and wait for this drop. As it is, I have ridden it up and down. Grrrrr.

Also, having not touched the channel top, it gives me less confidence that it will bounce off the bottom, and not drop through to 280ish as some have been predicting. Platinum did not make a clean bounce, and is threatening to drop through the channel bottom. Oh well, should know about both in a few days.

BTW, I'll post an updated chart as soon as Monday's London fixes are in.

G' day.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:22 - ID#173274)
@the scene
RJ -- Nah. I believe you did not short gold anymore today, thus breaking it. Now it's just a matter of trying to determine where its current 'demise' ends.
So who is this Euro boss supposed to be. I haven't heard/read the news yet, and I probably wouldn't know of him and his ways anyway. But I see that you know of him as the seller of vault loads of gold. Is that right? Would that pertain also to the requirements of the Euro currency? Being in charge of the Euro; Does that give him access to any other gold to sell, or did he get the position to keep him from selling more gold?

(Fri May 01 1998 20:22 - ID#286199)
"Sugar Ray" Sheller @ 19:15
You're pretty good when you're mad. Keep your left up and jab....

(Fri May 01 1998 20:22 - ID#267276)
Just a thought. About a year or so ago the swiss bank through Deane Whitter offered 1oz. gold coins and guaranteed to buy them back for no less than $360 oz. Also I believe that the Italian govt. has gold reserves priced at $360. Just curious.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:24 - ID#288295)
Free futures charts (good selection)
I think Mr. EB said this morning that his charts were Bohl charts ...

(Fri May 01 1998 20:26 - ID#195112)

(Fri May 01 1998 20:28 - ID#195112)
The chairman of the Bank of Japan has committed suicide. This is not a joke! I can't believe there is no comment.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:30 - ID#288295)
tolerant1 @ Inpathique

Yes- aarrrgghh! And you can bet your bippy if their forecast holds, I'll be buying some way-way-out-of-the-money XAU puts up in that top peak, and looking to run for the exit if the index then drops through the channel bottom. I'm not a trader, but I've ridden my last big 'down' wave.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:31 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Oris -- Yea, like the Hutus and Tutsis; Israelis and Palestinians; Bosnians and Serbs; and ad nauseum. Gag me with a spoon........
Those who expound this tripe are ripe for one of those South African 'Necklaces'.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:31 - ID#224149)
I sort of skip his posts --Like he does mine .
Mike Sheller ---I am very disturbed on your attack on Old Gold. My mother told me to always respect the mentally handicapped ---I sincerely respect everyone --Away to print Gift Certificates Thats real money

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 20:34 - ID#384350)
@speed, Bogus Belgian Rumour
Thanks for the post. So he denies the rumour after markets close. It makes for a good weekend.

Personally, I had the impression that there might be CB sales up to today, because after this weekend the CB's would be locked in. In other words, no more selling.

I suppose we'll find out about any sales at the next currency devaluation or market collapse.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:35 - ID#227238)
Mike Sheller @19:15: Well stated. ......... Bulls, steers or sheep? Rocky Mountain oysters must come from somewhere, I guess.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:38 - ID#153102)
It's sad. A man with great responsibilities died the death of a criminal by his own hand. Pityful and immense jumbled together.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:38 - ID#403272)
Well Said!!!!!

(Fri May 01 1998 20:39 - ID#31868)
STUDIO_R - O venerable one...
The Great Buck Wheat himself would be amazed as he sits in the O'tay hear tell that I put that much effort into trading. Certainly my friend, I do not. Each day, as does each breath, brings change. Those who study numbers and such, well, I have seen 10s of millions lost. Poof!
Gut feel, study and luck, make some trades better than most.

Remember the stock market is the worlds biggest casino. Any money you put in should be treated no different than cash you would use to light a cigar with. Poof, now its there, now its not...Take your best shot...don't blink or lose your nerve...

And never forget, the greatest wealth in the world is in your family, friends and neighbors eyes and laughter. This I am sure, you would never gamble or put in a situation to go poof.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:39 - ID#217268)
What is your source for the BOJ story. Can we confirm this on-line ?

(Fri May 01 1998 20:39 - ID#288399)
Nanyuki/BOJ head
If this is not a joke, where did you read that the head of the BOJ committed suicide? I can't find it. Thanks.

Peter (born loser)
(Fri May 01 1998 20:39 - ID#15658)
>> nanyuki
I can hear you, at least. Surrealistic that no-one has responded.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:41 - ID#287193)
@223.....I have not come to steal your PALLADIUM....but...
to thank you very much for your answer to my question's. I noticed your
post with interest since I am a foundry-m.
Punched in "Spectroscopy-analysis" and ended up with many thousands of sites and links; by the way ---attended school in the 30'!
I appreciate the answer's from all of you.
....more to follow up on a little later.

Bill Buckler
(Fri May 01 1998 20:45 - ID#256381)
BOJ Suicide???
Nanyuki ( 20:28 ) Please give us a source to confirm your post. I'm looking for a URL about the BOJ head committing suicide. If it's true, it will greatly affect the Gold commentary page I am now writing.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:46 - ID#31868)
STUDIO_R - Postscript
An exceedingly well written, thought out and succinct piece. Were it true that I could be the statue as cast by your words, I would purchase the state of OK and put a fence around it so that you might call the entirety of it your home.


(Fri May 01 1998 20:46 - ID#290118)
Euro Brothers
A common world currency ( or a tripartite system ) may not necessitate everyone being peaceful brothers. Look at our own inner cities where they have a common currency but still cut each other's throats ( over it ) .

But if brotherhood is necessary - Europe has more cut out for it than just merging their monetary systems. They've got thousands of years of hatchets to bury to stop their bloody feuds. I don't think they will be able to hold it together for long.

Guess I just wrote on both sides of the argument.
Hasta luego.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:49 - ID#288295)
BOJ suicide
AP is carrying the story - get it thru the Druge report in AP world

(Fri May 01 1998 20:52 - ID#26793)
So. Korean suicide rate has 36% increase attributed to severe economic downturn.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:52 - ID#288399)
BOJ Official

AP says he was "a top manager" and "the top manager". Confusing. Was he the #1 guy at the BOJ?

(Fri May 01 1998 20:55 - ID#344290)
Forward Sales by Mining Cos. - Is it Really a Scourge to Price of Gold?
The price of gold is moderate to high, then the mines borrow gold and sell it on the open market, the proceeds ( cash ) are put in escrow until the gold is replaced. The escrow earns interest greater than the lease rate. The effect is to put downward price pressure on POG when the POG is in the high range.

At some future time the spot POG is low, instead of selling on the open market and putting further downward pressure on POG, the mine directs its production back to the lender and withdraws funds from escrow as payment. The effect is to withold gold from the market when the POG is low.

Doesn't it therefore follow that hedging by producers nets out to a damping effect that moderates price fluctuations in both directions? Comments please.

(Fri May 01 1998 20:56 - ID#31868)
In addition he was labeled the Chief.
So WHAT gives?

(Fri May 01 1998 20:58 - ID#26793)
BOJ spent $21.35 billion to buy yen during April

(Fri May 01 1998 21:01 - ID#26793)
BOJ Suicide story

(Fri May 01 1998 21:03 - ID#288399)
BOJ Official

AP says he was "a top manager" and "the top manager". Confusing. Was he the #1 guy at the BOJ?

(Fri May 01 1998 21:03 - ID#248180)
PGM's Russia Norilsk Saga Continues from Feller Mining Report Info Mine
"Norilsk share manipulation revealed"
Amid continuing controversy over share manipulation in Moscow, stock from the latest emission by Norilsk Nickel has been redistributed so as to further tighten Uneximbank's hold on Russia's largest mining company.

One of the investment bankers representing other shareholders in the company told The Moscow Tribune the Uneximbank group has boosted its shareholding in Norilsk Nickel from 38 per cent last August, when it won a disputed tender sale of state shares, to about 50 per cent today.

Uneximbank, he said, also intervened to block an open-market sale of shares, because it feared its stake might have been reduced to 30 per cent.

By manipulation of the Moscow media, another source noted, Uneximbank drove the share price downwards, so as to achieve the lower buy-back price that other shareholders objected to last year.

Just days ago, Pavel Skitovich, deputy director of corporate relations for the Norilsk Nickel holding company, announced publicly: "the structure of shareholding didn't change since the shares were bought proportionally to the previous shareholding.

MFK-Renaissance Capital was the underwriter of the emission and bought the rest of the shares. But it doesn't plan to keep these shares for a long time, and will sell its packet of shares in time."

Skitovich explained that "many of the shareholders were not able to buy a proportional amount of shares due to the lack of free financial resources. However, they will be able to do this later when ( the Uneximbank group ) sells its stock."

This is now denied by the Uneximbank-MFK group. They told The Moscow Tribune the shares had already been placed before Skitovich spoke. "There will be no influx of shares on the market as was announced before."

The Uneximbank source declined to say who holds the shares now. American investment bankers who have been holding Norilsk Nickel shares, and who are familiar with what has happened, accuse Uneximbank of deliberately manipulating the share emission to dilute the positions of other shareholders.

This is one reason, they say, that Russia's Federal Securities Commission delayed the registration of the share issue for several weeks. The commission's chairman, Dmitri Vasiliev, who has been accused of favoritism in the past, says he personally evaluated the Norilsk Nickel issue, before approving. But he wouldn't say what was the reason for the delay.

Charges that Uneximbank was manipulating the market first surfaced last September. At that time, it was announced by the Uneximbank group that it and other Norilsk Nickel shareholders had voted to approve the issue of 126 million new shares, double the existing issue. The issue price, however, was just over $5 per share, well below the market price.

The terms, according to independent stockbrokers at the time, allowed Uneximbank to dilute the position of preferred shareholders, and increase its own stake at a discount price.

The Uneximbank group claimed, through the newsletter published by its Renaissance Capital unit, that the share issue and terms had been approved by the shareholders.

This was "false", according to The Moscow Times, a newspaper that has been supportive of the group's takeover at Norilsk. It was deceived, the Times said in a report this week, by Renaissance Capital and its chief executive, Boris Jordan.

The Times did not report that Jordan's subsequent maneuver has had the same effect, and at almost the same discount.

After the September attack on Uneximbank's plan, the company announced it was cutting the emission in half. It promised to give "equal access" to non-Uneximbank shareholders, and claimed the share price would be "closer to fair market value."

According to Skitovich, the price at which Norilsk Nickel and the Uneximbank group placed the new share issue was equivalent to just over $6. From an original projection of $625 million to be raised for the company, the actual amount raised, according to Skitovich, was $382 million.

Also according to Skitovich, the largest foreign shareholder in the new company capital structure is CS First Boston, with 11.2 per cent. It has apparently doubled its stake, possibly on behalf of unidentified investors. Other front companies for shareholders are Crawford Holding Ltd., Bank of Bermuda ( Cayman ) , and Pictet & Cie, Geneva, with between 1 percent and 2 percent each.

Several foreign nominee holdings identified last October have disappeared in the share distribution. They were Credit Suisse ( 7 percent ) , ING Baring ( 3 percent ) , Brunswick ( 3 percent ) , and Chase Manhattan ( 2 percent ) . ING Baring publicly complained about Uneximbank's tactics last September, warning it "to keep its good relationships with portfolio and foreign investors."

Independent state auditors investigating the Norilsk Nickel sale to Uneximbank last year believe the money the bank used to finance its takeover came secretly from American financier George Soros. The Russian government has also admitted taking a loan from Soros for $600 million in June of 1997, but officials won't say where the money went.

(Fri May 01 1998 21:04 - ID#234406)
These occasional severe dips in the market seem somewhat orchestrated to me. Whenever there is talk of slowing the party down a bit with a dash of higher interest rates, the Bond Market swoons and the Stock Market reacts with a nasty plunge a couple days later.

The Fed then panics ( of course they don't want an all out crash ) and quickly issues a statement that ( not to worry ) they won't have to adjust rates after all. And so the orchestra assisted by the Plunge Protection Team plays on and the party resumes.

and a great time is had by all ... W H A T A P A R T Y !!!

(Fri May 01 1998 21:04 - ID#426220)

Tolerant, Shloma & Silverbaron: The rapidly deteriorating Japanese business environment surrounding this suicide is painfully described in minute detail by Asia expert John Kutyn in his recent publication "MIND CONTROL & FINANCIAL ARMAGEDDEON" which may be read at following website. As usual it will be necessary to close the space infront of the word "-eagle" in the URL before posting it to your Internet locator:

Bill Buckler
(Fri May 01 1998 21:06 - ID#256381)
BOJ Suicide
Apparently, it was the "Chief Director" of the BOJ that was found hanged. Here's the story from the Washington Post

Not the same thing as being the HEAD of the BOJ

(Fri May 01 1998 21:07 - ID#286199)

Report: Japan Bank Exec Found Dead

TOKYO ( AP ) -- A top executive of Japan's scandal-plagued central bank hanged himself Saturday, the latest in a series of suicides by government bureaucrats, national broadcaster NHK reported.

The Bank of Japan's Chief Director Takayuki Kamoshida, 58, was found dangling from a plastic string in a Tokyo apartment at around 3 a.m. Saturday, NHK said.

Kamoshida was the BOJ's top manager and was also in charge of efforts to root out corruption at the bank and to punish employees involved in bribery scandals, NHK said.

(Fri May 01 1998 21:07 - ID#153102)
There is only one reason for government authorities to control POG with gold loans, acceptance of mine production promises at face value, and propaganda. That reason is to deny the people of the world a hedge against the devaluation of government legal tender paper. If that is not a criminal conspiracy, what is ?

(Fri May 01 1998 21:15 - ID#173274)
@the scene
Gonna sign off for awhile. BIG thunderstorm makin' its way across here!

(Fri May 01 1998 21:20 - ID#233199)
@ Squirrel (Gold for common folk) 19:27

RE: [[[ Any CB lagging behind would transfer/sell their Gold to others who could still liquidate some more. Once everyone ( CBs and friends ) are out of the market the facade can come down - though it would be maintained as long as possible to placate the masses. ]]]

It could work the other way to ( see: ANOTHER et al )
In the long run, if we survive, I think Gold must become a relic; but NOT in my lifetime - ( 2050 +/- a few )

(Fri May 01 1998 21:21 - ID#224149)
Did they find Gold in his pockets ?
The Death of Takayuki Kamoshida is very difficult to understand. I find suicide by rope in Japan outdated Maybe if he swallowed a few hundred memory chips it would be more plausible good night South Africa.

(Fri May 01 1998 21:21 - ID#432141)
BOJ death
"Found dead" may or may not equal suicide. If Ken Starr were found dead hanging from a plastic cord ( heaven forbid ) would you assume it was suicide?

(Fri May 01 1998 21:24 - ID#288369)
@Thanks ray & T#1........
I guess Monday the "Great Hoopas of Life" will visit the heads of today's gold shorters....ohmy. The Hoopas is the daughter of Gold; likewise, The Golden Sword of Justice is the son of Gold. She is very swift in her movement.

(Fri May 01 1998 21:28 - ID#228128)
This week's Veneroso FAX

Veneroso Associates Gold Watch April 30th, 1998
Telephone 603-430-8482 William Murphy Facsimile 603-430-8598
web site:

The Gold Market: The Short Run, Cross-Currents
Has There Ever Been Significant EMU Related Selling?

On the One Hand, On the Other Hand:

As of late, we have been repeatedly asked, "What is happening in the gold
market?" Quite honestly, we are more unsure than usual. In this note we will
set forth our current view regarding the short run. We are issuing the
transcript of a conference call we did five weeks ago which contains our views
about the outlook for the gold market from a longer term perspective.

Three weeks ago we considered the short run outlook for the gold market. At
the time, we said the following:

1. Sentiment on the part of speculators and producers was improving as more
dealers indicated that EMU related selling would end. This implied more short
covering by funds and no more net producer hedging. A move to the long side by
funds on Comex supported this contention.

2. The large Korean sale had been completed. Liquidation in the distressed
Far East was largely over.

3. Given these positive developments, one should expect the gold price to
rally significantly. However, continued scale up official selling could
prevent that. It was our guess that such selling persisted. We suggested
that the gold market might trade sideways if that was the case.

Overall, our views are little changed. Let us review the evidence involving
the different classes of market participants.
Speculators The Comex position of traders report for Tuesday, April 20th
showed an increase in net fund longs from 5,000 lots to 12,600 lots and a
further increase in net small speculator longs to a very large 24,000 lots.
Over the last two months there has been an overall swing in the net spec
position on Comex from short 60,000 lots to long 35,000 lots. That amounts to
300 tonnes of net buying, which is a lot. We have to assume that there has
been substantial additional fund short covering on the OTC market.
Speculators have been large scale buyers over the last two months.

Producers We hear conflicting reports of both scale up producer hedging and
some significant producer buybacks. On balance it is our guess that the
producer sector has been a net hedger scale up, but not to a large degree.

The Physical Market Premiums in the Far East are terrible. The region
appears to be awash in gold. This suggests that end use demand in the five
most adversely afflicted emerging Asian economies---Thailand, Malaysia,
Philippines, Indonesia, and Korea---remains deeply depressed, as does demand
in Japan which has been hit by a significant slump in consumer spending and a
large rise in the yen price of gold. In addition, it is likely that in India
and the Middle East gold demand has fallen with the gold price $30 off its
lows. There is a significant short run elasticity to gold demand in these
countries. They buy in excess of their planned purchases on every price dip,
and then buy well below their planned purchases on all price recoveries. It
takes months for Asian and Middle East households and commercials to become
used to a new and higher price level and move to their sustainable rate of

The Official Sector On balance, our supply/demand work suggests that the
combination of :
1 ) an abatement of Asian liquidation
2 ) considerable buying by speculators by way of derivatives
3 ) only modest producer hedging and
4 ) a "sticker shock" short run abatement of physical demand,
should have resulted in more of an increase in the gold price than has
occurred to date. This points to the possibility of scale up official
selling, possibly EMU related. In our view, whether or not there has been
continued official selling is crucial.

What Can We Say About This Question of Sustained Official Selling?
We noted two weeks ago that the odds favored some such EMU related selling.
However, aside from the Belgians, who claim to have sold their 299 tonnes to
other central banks, there have been no announcements of EMU related sales in
either 1997 or early 1998. Therefore, the thesis that EMU related selling was
a cause of the 1997-1998 gold bear market has to be increasingly questioned.
We will review our reasons for believing that there has been one or more
undisclosed sales that may still be ongoing.

The very conservative GFMS has been of the belief that there was one or more
European official sales in early 1997. Based on the price the Belgians
reported they received for their gold, they were not a seller in the first
half of 1997.

In the first half of 1997 we received a report from a good source that the
Dutch were a significant seller in early 1997 and wanted to eventually dispose
of all their gold.

Some G-10 central banks talk as though there has been considerable European
official selling.

Some dealers talk as though there has been considerable European official

Regarding the statements made by these latter parties, there is evidence that
all the G-10 central banks are informed of official gold sales by any one of
them. This was made apparent in a statement by the Governor of the Bank of
Belgium after the early 1996 Belgian gold sale.

October 12, 1996: Verplaetse tells La Libre Belqique newspaper that after
already selling 700 tonnes of gold Belgium's gold reserves were now in line
with the European average and there was good balance between productive and
non-productive assets. "I have obtained the permission ( from G-10 governors
to sell gold ) four times. I will not try a fifth time", Verplaetse said."

Whenever Alan Greenspan has been asked about the gold price, he has always
responded that changes in the gold price reflect inflationary expectations.
He never mentioned supply/demand factors. In particular, he never conceded
that official sales influenced the price of gold when asked about such sales.
Yet, on February 12 of this year, when asked about the gold price, he focused
primarily on the central bank issue.

"The price of gold declined more than 20% in 1997 and fell further in early
1998, reaching lows not seen since the late 1970's. Open discussion , and in
some cases, confirmation of central bank sales of gold contributed to the
price decline. Downward adjustment of expectations of inflation in the
industrial countries in general may have added to the selling pressure in

Greenspan's statement does not explicitly say there have been undisclosed EMU
related sales, but it is not inconsistent with such sales. More importantly,
for Greenspan to change his public position on the determinants of the gold
price so abruptly and decisively suggests that the U.S. Fed may have been
informed of significant , still undisclosed , EMU related official sales.

London, February 5, Dow-Jones - "For all the well known reasons, however, it
is difficult to be particularly bullish about the near term outlook", he said.
He earlier had observed that gold market participants have "become obsessively
concerned " about gold sales by central banks, fueled in the past year by news
of sales by the Argentinean and Australian central banks. These sales
undoubtedly impacted severely on the price and have alarmed participants as to
the intentions of central banks more generally", Smeeton said. However, over
the long term, he cautioned against being "overly pessimistic" about gold
( our underlining )

London, March 19, Reuters - Central banks due in at the start of Europe's
single currency could sell gold without reference to their Euro partners until
the end of the year, according to the head of the Bank of England's Foreign
Exchange Division, Terry Smeeton.
That view contrasts with what many in the bullion market had assumed, namely
that any gold sales will require the approval of the European Central Bank
( ECB ) from May or June, once its operations get underway as planned."

Statements by Terry Smeeton of the Bank of England imply past and likely
future EMU related sales.

In recent conference calls, both Charles Arentschildt of Deutsche Bank and
Stephen Yorke of Warburgs took issue with Terry Smeeton and predicted that
such EMU related selling would end by May or June. Whether they are right or
wrong, the mere existence of the dispute implies that they believe there has
been ongoing EMU related official selling.

Reviewing all this evidence, we conclude that EMU related selling is not a
chimera that has been hinted at by G-10 central bankers and insisted on by
dealers and GFMS. If it is not a non-existent event, we must ask, "Why have
there been no public pronouncements to date?" The most likely explanation is
that such selling is not yet over. Perhaps one or more European official
sellers had too much company; the Argentine and Australian central banks,
distressed Asians, frightened producers and gleeful short sellers all tried to
sell last year. This may have caused certain planned sales to be extended
well into this year. This is currently our working hypothesis, but we admit
that, in the absence of any official announcements, it may be questioned.
We have had significant speculator buying over the last two months. In all
probability, producer buybacks have offset most of any new producer hedging.
There have been ample signs of a weakening of physical demand in the Far East.

Normally, when significant spec buying occurs amidst little net producer
hedging and a weak physical market, the gold market sells off. However, if
tag end EMU related selling has been the source of price resistance in the
gold market as the speculators have recently become big buyers and as the
producers and Asians have stopped selling, the near term will depend on the
course of such selling. If such selling exists, when it ends the gold market
will rally, regardless of spec longs and reduced physical demand. If it
persists in size, the market will eventually falter and the speculators will
get shaken out.
In any case, longer term the market should recover to its 1994-1996 trading
range. See our concurrent monthly report for details.

Precious Metals Monthly Report

The Gold Market: A One-Year View

Executive Summary

 Five weeks ago we conducted a conference call arranged by Canarc Resource
Corp. In a companion Gold Watch ( April 30th, Issue 04.06 ) we assess the
current short run dynamics in the gold market. In this conference call we
summarized our longer term views.

 It is our opinion that the gold bear market of 1997 was caused by three
shocks: 1 ) EMU related official selling; 2 ) hedge fund short selling and
producer hedging resulting from fears of EMU relate official selling; and, 3 )
distress selling by commercials and investors in the Far East Asian countries
in crisis.

 The distress liquidations in Asia are almost over. Several formerly
bearish dealers have told the producers and hedge funds that EMU related
selling will abate or end. This has led to hedge fund short covering and less
producer hedging.

 The abatement of Asian, hedge fund, and producer selling should lift the
gold price significantly. This has not occurred. The odds are that EMU
related selling continues.

 If EMU related selling continues, it should end some time this year. Once
the three selling pressures of 1997 all abate, the gold price should rise back
to the $370-$400 trading range of 1994-1996, probably over a one-year period.

(Fri May 01 1998 21:40 - ID#228128)
Comment on the Veneroso Fax
If the current weakness in gold is as Veneroso suggests due to unannounced central bank sales then it follows that a party or parties unknown are wired into the deal in New York. Most if not all of the drop over the past two days has come near the close of trading in NY. Are some of trading houses/bullion banks gleefully shorting the market for fun and profit? What does the futures market tell us here. Are the specs adding to their shorts lately?

(Fri May 01 1998 21:40 - ID#26793)
Japanese car sales continue to slide

(Fri May 01 1998 21:43 - ID#26793)
Belgium has no plans to sell more gold.

(Fri May 01 1998 21:47 - ID#230216)
Mike Sheller
I lost respect for his wishy-washy-mamby-pamby-mumbo-jumbo-blah-blah looooong ago. I read his posts cause I like watching people jump from one side of the fence to the other trying to find greener grass or a dog that doesn't bite a hole in your backside...NOT.

He owes MANY apologies here....MANY.


away...from people with NO conviction

EBreadytofallonhisfaceatamomentsnotice.....uhhuh. i have my address back again......damnable ISP's....

Gianni Dioro__A
(Fri May 01 1998 21:49 - ID#384350)
en-Carry Trade
Prechter cites the April 10th Grant's Interest Rate Observer in saying that Money creation at the BOJ grew at an incredible 50.9% March 20, year to date.

Prechter says this $207 Billion of newly created money obviously didn't find its way to Japan's deflating, crumbling economy. No, it was diverted to the booming US stock market and the US bond market which yields 400+ basis points more than Japanese Bonds.

Heck maybe people will just keep on taking that free money from Japan, buy up stuff, and then let the en conveniently collapse so that the loans won't have to be repaid.

(Fri May 01 1998 21:49 - ID#26793)
Democrat leaders blast IMF bailout of Indonesia. Upset President

(Fri May 01 1998 21:54 - ID#316193)
From Steve Blizard (Hosted by Colin Seymour), Thoughts From Australia

(Fri May 01 1998 21:56 - ID#340459)
@Donald - Thanks for your post re Belgian confirmation at 21:43

(Fri May 01 1998 22:02 - ID#252150)
Mike Sheller@Man!! Did you ever take Old Gold to task. IMHO deservedly so.
BTW, I was the first on this forum to defend Jim Rogers after the "scurrilious" attacks ( although nowhere near as masterfully as you ) . I wonder if O.G. is a retired politician. He seems to have that ability to change his mind to suit the occasion.

(Fri May 01 1998 22:02 - ID#31868)
Donald - the Democrats will accelerate their distance from
Clinton or anything close to him as the investigations heat up. Clinton is dead meat, no matter what everyone thinks about his ratings or ability to weather storms.

They have him and his wife dead to rights and will nail both of them to the front door of the White House.

Count on it.

(Fri May 01 1998 22:18 - ID#267344)
F* the unknowledgable...
Would you pleaase back up something you assert with actual knowledge? Just in case I miss it ( I won't be looking for it ) , please post it throughout the weekend and Monday as well since I probably won't return until then. Thank you so very much.
Your humble worshiper,
- c

(Fri May 01 1998 22:19 - ID#287193)
@GOLD....from Russia .........with love..
Oh..these Russian..can we get a hold of this stock?

(Fri May 01 1998 22:26 - ID#26669)
servehard, an ounce of PALLADIUM is worth a pound of BEER?
IMHO there is more information available in the world today than a person could even learn classifications and major subject headings. One of the first uses I heard of mass spectroscopy analysis was where an archaeologist traced back the steel used in a WWII aircraft runway in New Guinea to an iron mine in Alabama! And there's a company I found on the internet which sells jewelry made of native Scottish gold, verifiable with mass spectroscopy.

But this example abstract tops it all. How about a laser machine which can analyze the surface of the MOON???!!

(Fri May 01 1998 22:29 - ID#288369)
@This portion of tonight's show is brought to you by......
Maybe we could get a beer company to sponsor us? Pabst? IMHOPBR

(Fri May 01 1998 22:43 - ID#20135)
Date: Fri May 01 1998 21:43
Donald ( Belgium has no plans to sell more gold. ) ID#26793:

"Belgium has no plans to sell more gold - Maystadt

BRUSSELS, May 1 ( Reuters ) - Belgian Finance Minister Philippe Maystadt on Friday said Belgium had no plans for further gold sales.

Asked by Reuters if any more gold sales were likely, Maystadt, attending a meeting of European Union finance ministers here, said: ``No, it is not envisaged.''

Gold closed earlier in London at $305.90/$306.40 an ounce, but later slipped sharply in Comex trading in New York after a news agency reported Maystadt as saying
Belgium may sell more gold and privatize more companies to help reduce debt."


Veryinteresting Donald becasue:


FWN: 124802 GMT

Market Special: Gold Falls After Belgian Official's

an FWN news story quoted the Belgian finance minister as
saying the National Bank of Belgium will undertake further
sales this year, floor sources reported.
The news caused the June contract to fall below the
previous day's low of $306.50, and stop-loss orders were
triggered, said a floor source. The June contract has fallen
as far as $305.
Belgian Finance Minister Philippe Maystadt said the
sales of gold would be to help the country reduce its
national debt ahead of European economic and monetary union
and would be part of other measures, such as privatization
of state companies.


Just how often can the same old false story ploy works. It is just amazing.

(Fri May 01 1998 22:43 - ID#238422)
1. 5,000 tons of gold is a typo, in the best case
it's 500, but I would say 50 tons looks more realistic.

2. Uzbekistan is not Russia. Usbekistan is very similar
to Afganistan but a bit quiter politically and has
more industries and some infrastructure. Still this country
may explode any time...but they can fix you nice shish-kebab.

3. I hope when you've said you want to be a shareholder of
this company, you were just kidding. If you want to get
rid of some of your money, just give it to me or to
my drinking brothers Tom, Sam, John...

Very truly yours, Oris.

(Fri May 01 1998 22:45 - ID#20135)
Palladium has been getting het pretty good lately but...
this looks sort of positive to me.

FWN: 131202 GMT

NYMEX to Increase Margins on May, June '98
Palladium Futures

Exchange ( NYMEX ) will raise the outright and spread
margin rates on its May and June 1998 palladium futures
contracts as of the close of business on Monday, May 4,
according to a NYMEX press release today.
The outright margins will be increased to $15,000 from
$13,000 for clearing members; to $16,500 from $14,300 for
members; and to $20,250 from $17,550 for customers, the
exchange said.
For clearing members, the spread margin rates will be
$13,000 for a spread involving the spot month; $12,800 for
one involving the second month; and remain at $300 for back-
month spreads. Member rates will be $14,300 for a spot-month
spread; $14,080 for a spread including the second month; and
remain at $330 for back-month spreads. Customer rates will
be $17,550 for a spot-month spread; $17,280 for a spread
which includes the second month; and remain at $405 for
back-month spreads, the exchange said.

(Fri May 01 1998 22:48 - ID#284255)
ANOTHER article to reread

(Fri May 01 1998 22:52 - ID#285121)
Tolerant1 / Clinton !
I agree. The media is prepareing us every day for what's comming. If you guys remember the day the Monica story broke gold gained around $9.00. What will happen WHEN Hillary is indicted? $50.00 on Gold, 6000 Dow? Market can now lose 30% in one day ya know.

(Fri May 01 1998 22:53 - ID#288369)
@The Godfather of Gold (hits)..........

(Fri May 01 1998 23:01 - ID#284255)
Kudos to the Kitco reporting team - those kitco guys are fast
Anyone hear anything on this just posted on Kitco? "CNBC just reported that the chairman of the Bank of Japan has hung himself."

ah here we go, just made the wires a few minutes ago site link his suicide note: "I'm tired...I'm at the limit." those kitco guys are fast

(Fri May 01 1998 23:14 - ID#30116)
Gold, the not so shiny?
Ouch... But.... There is hope ( I think ) down the road aways... If for nothing else, it will surely test your trading mettle... The real questions are, "Will the trend lines hold? Is this just a retracement in a bullish move" If someone has the correct answer, please let me know. :- ) )

(Fri May 01 1998 23:16 - ID#20135)
And, of course later in the day after the damage has been done...
FWN: 141344 GMT

Belgian Finance Official: No New Belgian Gold Sales

By Barbara Kollmeyer
FWN London Bureau Chief

any new gold sales, Ministry of Finance Secretary-General
Gregoire Brouhns said here today.
Brouhns told FWN that Belgium had made a gold sale
earlier this year and the proceeds of that sale will be used
to reduce Belgium's debt.
Belgium is going to pass a law to obtain permission
from Parliament authorizing the government to use the
profits from the sale toward its debt.
Belgian Finance Minister Philippe Maystadt was
misquoted earlier today about gold sales, according to
Brouhns. Maystadt was talking about the sale earlier this
year by the National Bank of Belgium and not any new sale,
Brouhns said.

(Fri May 01 1998 23:20 - ID#426220)

SHAREFIN: REF "CNBC just reported that the chairman of the Bank of Japan has hung himself."

CNBC actually said it was THE CHAIRMAN?

If that's the case, the Nikkei will plummet through 15000 on Monday. And I would be flabbergasted if US interest rate DID NOT SOAR.

(Fri May 01 1998 23:22 - ID#288369) note........
I'm tired......I must go to bed.

(Fri May 01 1998 23:24 - ID#307271)
A new day Monday
On a positive note, my charts don't look irreversible. Gold should bounce off 302 with some vigor Monday. The XAU then is positioned to rebound from 86.62 if a ratio of about .287 is in place. If the XAU is overpriced as recent data presented on the forum would suggest, then we must test the lower level of the XAU...but the physical should stay intact.

As to Mentors and scathing, unforgiving attacks on a follower or disciple, the High Priests of the Chaldees deals with their flock in this way. But there is one who is forgiving an understanding when one of his flock errs: 14 This is now the third time Jesus showed Himself to His disciples after He was raised from the dead.

15 So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me more than these?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "Feed My lambs."

16 He said to him again a second time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "Tend My sheep."

17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Feed My sheep. Though Peter had erred in denying his Master three times, his Master did not rape him publicly before the others, but rather forgave him and restored him to his former station.

(Fri May 01 1998 23:32 - ID#20135)
Not the chairman as far as Ap is concerned.
TOKYO ( AP ) -- A top executive of Japan's scandal-plagued central bank hanged himself Saturday, police said, in the latest in a series of suicides by government bureaucrats.

The Bank of Japan's Chief Director Takayuki Kamoshida, 58, was found by his wife around 3 a.m. hanging from a cord in a Tokyo apartment, police said.

Kamoshida was in charge of efforts to root out corruption at the central bank and to punish employees involved in bribery scandals, national broadcaster NHK said.

(Fri May 01 1998 23:40 - ID#317193)
Sheller-tact or lack thereof!
None earned-none deserved-none given. I join EB. Tom

Mike Sheller
(Fri May 01 1998 23:45 - ID#347447)
As for those Ur is human.

(Fri May 01 1998 23:45 - ID#256250)
Not to make to much of this, but false data move the market down...
I would suggest looking at the technicals caused by this move would be incorrect. Looks like the same old release a lie and benefit from it. Looks like gold is still in SHORT supply, paper gold is plentiful of course.

FWN: 143512 GMT

Closing N.Y. Metals: Lower; Gold Falls on Belgian

gold sales by Belgium's central bank--later denied--drove
gold futures sharply lower in late trade today, floor
sources here said. The move was accelerated by technical
factors as stop-loss orders were hit.
The rest of the precious metals complex also ended
softer, with silver heading lower in sympathy with gold.
Meanwhile, platinum and palladium were lower most of
the session as the market begins to anticipate the
resumption of Russian supplies, even though formal talks
between the Russians and Japanese have not begun and a
start-up date of shipments is still unknown.
At least three news services quoted Belgian Finance
Minister Philippe Maystadt as saying the National Bank of
Belgium will undertake further sales of gold this year in
order to reduce its national debt ahead of European economic
and monetary union.
"Everyone started selling on the back of that, and once
we went under $306.50 ( basis June ) , then we saw some stop-
loss selling," one floor source said.
Since those reports, however, Belgium's Ministry of
Finance secretary-general, Gregoire Brouhns, told FWN that
Maystadt was talking about sales earlier this year and not
future gold sales.
A couple of traders cited heavy trade selling, with one
adding that there was also producer and speculative
"We had a very narrow sideways range for most of the
day," one trader said. "When we didn't manage to move higher
and recapture some of the losses from the previous day,
trade selling and producer selling and spec selling drove us
into a technical chart area, where stop-loss selling pushed
us down toward the lows."
June gold futures fell as low as $302.50.
One trader put the next support areas for June gold
around $301.50 to $300, then $295. He put resistance at
$305.40 to $306.60.
July silver hit a low for the day of $6.14 late in the
"Silver was just hanging out there and eventually
followed gold," one floor source said.
Support was put at $6.08, with resistance at $6.30.
Platinum and palladium futures also finished softer in
quiet trade.
"It's a continuation of the pattern that started a
little earlier in the week, which basically is gradual
anticipation of getting closer to the period of time when
some Russian supply will become available," said William
O'Neill, director of futures research at Merrill Lynch.
According to reports earlier this week, representatives
of the Russian export agency Almaz are expected to begin
talks with the Japanese on a new contract around the middle
of the month.
O'Neill listed support for July platinum at $391, with
resistance around $401.

(Fri May 01 1998 23:48 - ID#340459)
If I wanted to promote Euro, I will let the price of Gold shoot up next week to show the World that Euro is thing to hold as it's backing of Gold can bring Gold prices up considerably hinting at appreciating value paper Globally in comparable value to US Dollars and may beat Uncle Sam as atleast 300 million people will have to use it in sound economic and Industrial countries........

Wall Street and soaring DOW should realize that sadly "Trees dont grow up to the skies" as epoused by the new paradigm mantra of the market commentators in popular media, while speaking in relative to traditional market valuation or metrics, Cendant is an example..........

Last 2 days, the afternoon action was by Big fella's and conveyed some signal to opposite camp to show their strength..........

Clinton could soon be on Life Support if Starr is more expedient. Clinton's expression says it all now as Hillary may be next......

Life lead us into the Right Path....

(Fri May 01 1998 23:56 - ID#284255)
To UR is human - to forgive is human too - namaste - peace on Kitco
Avid chatter
so it Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds on Monday?

were there any commodity charts posted? have you ever seen what happens in some of the commodity markets after an island reversal? this advance is much more like a commodity than anything we have seen in stocks for a long time!

lurking with Jenny Craig, "I really don't know what to do", she tells me, "I simply cannot find a program that works on these pigs and their voracious appetite"

I am a bear here. My indicators all point to a break of 108170 before 114230. My target is 105000 as early as late next week. I am going to cover all longs Monday AM. The market did signal higher prices ( above 113050 ) but once 3050 breaks, I have no idea what is next. The next target is 113590, which I expect to be protected Monday. IF Monday is a down day AND Tuesday takes out Monday high I'll get long there BUT if Tuesday opens just slightly below Mondays low and ulrimately 111800 breaks I'll be so short I will be able to apply for the Secretary of labor position in Clinton's Cabinet

My fantasy is out of control buying M, T , W that leads to a BIG fat top Thurs, but I don't think I'll see it happen that way. Basically I am looking to sell here. A breakout day of this range with a gap up low of 1135 would be a real gift, but I'll be flat and watching from here on out UNLESS I get a supreme sell signal OR I really believe 4230 will break before 108170 -- which I don't believe, and neither do my indicators

-- I agree with you. Lots of negative divergences today, e.g. low volume, weak trannies and techs, bonds, etc. The market will probably start worrying about next weeks jobs numbers on Monday. But the 130 close sure is amazing, and makes it tempting to stay long. Probably as much a bull trap as Wednesday's close was a royal bear trap.

... I think this market is setting up for one of the greatest trades ever next week ... I can smell it, I can see it, and I can feel it ... today surprised me ... the close was whistling in the dark, passing the graveyard ... one of the greatest wolfe waves of all time is setting itself up on the S&P 500 ... and I think it will *not* happen ... it will be what I call a "Sheep Wave" ... if we make all new highs on the S&P it will be "too perfect" and people ( sellers ) will jump all over it ... if that happens, we will be going much, much higher ... I don't think it will happen ... but the scenarios right here are the best a trader will see this year ... the best ... it will not get any better than it gets next week, imo ... whew, I gotta calm down, take a cold shower or something ... see ya, folks ... good trading to you

the marginal propensity to invest is causing the standard deviation from the mean to diminish to a short pulsating action that is leaving both the bulls and bears in a state of confiscatory relapsel.