Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Tue May 12 1998 00:02 - ID#227238)
Jack @20:04: Your's is the most interesting and edifying question of recent memory. Will we indeed, be forced to cough up our closely held derivatives in time of national crisis? ......... A question, worthy of further pursuit by greater minds. ........... Heee, Heee, Heeee.

(Tue May 12 1998 00:03 - ID#267344)
It was agreed that the price of domestic first class mail would be raised to 33 cents. This will not take effect until at least 1999. This tells me many that they do not expect a large increase in inflation over the next couple years. Stamps are intersting to follow because they can be considered aa type of currency.
- why did they go to all that trouble just to raise the postal rate by one cent ( 3.125% ) ?
- why did they do this when the postal service has billions in surplus dollars?
I believe that any interest rate hike by the Fed in the next six months will be just as negligable as this stamp increase. However, I think that they may eventually raise required reserves. I must take my leave now, as I am hunting for large quantities of silver.
- c

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 12 1998 00:07 - ID#384350)
6pak, Jefferson'sDecimal System
The decimal system must have been set in place for a usury system to be set in place.

And Who were the original shareholders in the Bank of the United States in 1791? Weren't some of these founding fathers involved?

An honest system is based on Gold and Equity ( venture capital ) not of usury ( the loaning of Gold or Fiat for interest ) . I would think a system based on fractions would support honest money. One using decimals suits a system based on charging interest or usury, which was once a capital offense.

(Tue May 12 1998 00:10 - ID#288157)
GB Department of Trade & Industry (and only DT&I) under the normal name
address, roldex stuff is this code:

P= HMG is Her Majesty's Government, Department Trade & Industry; and C ( Country ) Great Britain, what is A= GOLD 400--a prize of some kind? Then why list at every name?

This is from: Europa/Competition/National authorities United Kingdom

All names are listed thus:
Dr. Anne EGGINGTON Director-UK Competition Policy
T. +44-171-2156747
Fax. +44-171-2156491
e-mail :
Department of Trade and Industry; OU1=CACP;

I 'know' this is nothing, but it drives me bonkers until I KNOW it is nothing...

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 12 1998 00:11 - ID#384350)
@EJ, NickC, computer chips in cars
If cars and toasters and the like have year 2k problems, it would have to be due to some covert machinations, like govt spying. Why else would there be a date related chip in these items?

(Tue May 12 1998 00:14 - ID#335190)
Jobs-Jobs-Jobs @ All is well - not to worry. A bright future, can you see it ? Faith !
6,400 jobs cut in takeover of Coleman, Mr. Coffee, First Alert

This time, about 6,400 jobs, or 40 per cent of total employment, will be
cut as Sunbeam absorbs the Coleman, Mr. Coffee and First Alert brands bought in March.
"We see a bright future for the new Sunbeam," said Dunlap,

(Tue May 12 1998 00:17 - ID#153102)
The world's debtor nation has the most credit and the world's creditor nation has no credit. I daresay even Keynes himself could have never predicted his monetary theories of debt currency would produce that result.

I foresee converging a financial crisis, economic crisis, money crisis, and constitutional crisis in the midst of an information and communications system malfunction. I don't like being a gloomsayer, but this System truly appears to be brittle through and through.

(Tue May 12 1998 00:17 - ID#45173)
@Gianni Dioro re: Money Supply is not fixed
I expect inflation too, both as a side-effect of socialist policies required to solve political problems following an equity crash ( see my earlier post ) and also to help destroy $5.5T in debt.

Some young people today indeed have much higher standards of living than their parents or grandparents. I do, for example. I make more each year than all the money I inhereted from my parents. I'm part of the corporate elite that's benefited from government policies for the past 20 years. But MOST young people are not benefiting. They are much worse off than their parents. Some day, if things get bad enough and they wise up and get organized, they'll change things around.

I don't have a clear sense of where the bulk of the inflation has occured in areas of the economy not effected by technological innovation. The price of property has increased in direct proportion to debt inflation, I'd guess.

The point of the oz. for suits comparison is that for things that cannot be produced more cheaply by technological innovation, the price of gold for those things has been roughly the same, and I think that's fair. But production that is not effected by technology is an ever-smaller part of the economy.

True, a top of the line car in 63 might cost $3000 and today $80,000. But a 1963 top of the line car today still costs less than $20,000 ( if it was well preserved ) but a 1998 top of the line car in 1963 might cost as much as the first launch of the Mercury space capsule, except there's more computer in my $5 Casio watch than the Mercury space capsule had.

"..if we did the dishes by hand, rode horses, or played cards or drank and sang with friends, life wouldn't be any worse, it would be much better."

I'm with you 100% there. Stop by any time for a cold one.

Signing off. Got some software to sell tomorrow.



Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 12 1998 00:17 - ID#384350)
Mozel, Y2K
People will eat them Frostriches with their sporks, as spoons and forks will be in short supply, but Frostriches will be a dime a dozen.

(Tue May 12 1998 00:17 - ID#399119)
@all, "such a deal" and thoughts,
A sign of the times: things are as bad as I thought they were. Received in the mail today was an offer from NORWEST FINANCIAL. It consisted of a "Draft" for $508.07, attached to a letter exclaiming: INSTANT LOAN CHEQUE. The first sentence asks "What bills are you expecting in the coming months? The letter then proceeds to list the types of bills you could "pay off" using this "instant loan cheque". The next paragraph reads; "To get your money, sign the back of the cheque and deposit it in your bank account. Your loan will be created at NORWEST FINANCIAL at the terms shown on the opposite page. Please review them carefully, and then enjoy your extra buying power." The "terms" of the loan are as follows; 36% Annual Percentage Rate!!!, $211.93 Finance charge, payment schedule of 24 equal monthly payments of $30.00, no prepayment penalty, but "you will not be entitled to a refund of part of the finance charge" of $26.74. To re-quote Mr. T; "I pity the fool" who falls for this kind of an offer, on one hand the Darwinian "let the buyer beware" is a sound credo, however, ethically, this is usury most foul. This company and others of its ilk, must make enough of these loans to make offering them worthwhile. Its sad that the same type of person that would be tempted to fall for this type of offer ,IMHO, is the same type who buys milk and bread at the "convenience store" and pays a 50% premium, rather than going a little bit out of the way and going to a Grocery market, a few blocks away. With Sheeple like this in America, who needs outside enemies, these perennial victims of their own slothful self-indulgences have let themselves be led around by their ignorance and apathy to the point that they have allowed our Beloved Free country to become a collectivist "workers paradise" where we are all really slaves without property or rights, only "Government Licensed" privileges. Its sad, so sad. Well there I go again, off subject again, but not really, because I am illustrating the mind set ( or lack of minds ) that let the USG "take something really valuable like ink and paper, and make it nearly worthless". IDCIBM, "HEY! HEY! HO!HO! FIAT MONEY HAS GOT TO GO! Chanted loudly by large groups of Kitcoites in front of every Federal Reserve Bank in the country is a recurring fantasy of mine, ( among others I wont go into ) Away to the Bunker to Hunker! I am a hardguy to placate.

(Tue May 12 1998 00:19 - ID#31868)
6Pak - I think of all the numbers released by the government I think the
employment figures disgust me the most. These numbers as they come out and the numbers rise and rise...the true misery will be right out in the open for all the world to see.

I think the numbers are pure fabrication and have been for some time now.

(Tue May 12 1998 00:19 - ID#256250)
Date: Mon May 11 1998 22:17
aurophile ( A. Goose ) ID#256326:

Thanks for the input. I couldn't sell food to a starving man, so FV has my admiration for all his efforts. I am just trying to figure what is going on and why.



(Tue May 12 1998 00:20 - ID#255151)
Gold Schlager

Or is it Gold Shlager. Been wondering about the amount of Gold in each bottle. When, not if, Gold goes to $30,000+, how much will each Gold flake be worth?

(Tue May 12 1998 00:23 - ID#43460)
EJ, you pose interesting questions. So let me give a conjecture
Suppose for the sake of argument that man's human nature has not changed despite all the techno-advantages, population growth and orchistrated scarcity. Then inflation and deflation will depend upon relative advantage of just a few. This can be demonstrated by a some recent catastrophes.

Do you recall the Stalinist era Russian wheat failure? In a relatively stable climatic and rural social milieau a central government chose to avoid the problems arising from a heterogeneous and united peasantry. So it changed the rules for farming, cut off shipping and starved an entire segment of its population. Same song different verses, recall the starvations in Biafra, Bangaladesh, Ethiopia, Somalia and Kurdistan? IMHO

In a miniscule example of the same phenomenom, just suppose Ted Turner and Hanoi Jane Fonda buy up many square miles of ranchland and turn it into a n alleged haven for saggy breasted and droopy bunned former hippies, forcing out the few inhabitants in the process. ( TT then allegedly buys himself and his sow a billion dollar ticket on the UN ark, but thats another song. ) In the end wealth and power are redistributed so that they are concentrated into fewer and fewer hands. The weak among the remainder are starved out, the stronger of the majority form cliques to speed the starvation and the wealthy develop new ways to insulate themselves from all. IMHO

Hmm, I'm starting to ramble. Inflation, right? I suppose the point is that just when the little fish figure out which way to swim the big ones will flush the commode. So in summary I would think I'll try to prepare for the various contingencies by being as much of a contrarian as I can. IMHO

(Tue May 12 1998 00:23 - ID#31868)
People will take strainers to the restroom.

(Tue May 12 1998 00:27 - ID#31868)
mozel - I truly believe that the system is only, truly, as weak as the people in

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 12 1998 00:34 - ID#384350)
EJ, your $100 suit
I would think that increases in technology would make the purchasing power of Gold rise, and thus 1 oz. of Gold would buy lots of those perfect suits.

(Tue May 12 1998 00:40 - ID#190411)
It is always a distinct pleasure to hear from an unreconstructed "bad attitude" goldbug, as yourself.
I am just buying, and, taking losses: For a short time.
I didn't see any earthshaking predictions on goldstocks, or POG today.
It surely is getting anxious for the PM types.
I have to run out and buy some hard red wheat at my convenience store.
: Nice to see you back.

(Tue May 12 1998 00:40 - ID#255151)

This here is the kind of advertising the World Gold Council ought to be doing. A buxom blond saying that her body craves Gold--

(Tue May 12 1998 00:40 - ID#153102)
@T1 You are, then, a self-professed true believer.
Sell the Boat. Your System is gonna need you.
I have come to despise the word system and any word ending in "crat".

(Tue May 12 1998 00:50 - ID#288157)
Time to quit for tonight--the frustration level with EU's 'transparency' puts one
in mind of the devastating parody-cum rejection slip sent Gertrude
Stein by her editor, A.J. Fitfield:

"I am only one, only one, only one. Only one being, one at the same
time. Not two, not three, only one.
Only one life to live, only sixty minutes in one hour.
Only one pair of eyes. Only one brain. Only one being. Being only one, having only one pair of eyes, having only one time, having only one
life, I cannot read your MS three or four times. Not even one time.
Only one look, only one look is enough. Hardly one copy would sell
here. Hardly one. Hardly one."

Good night!

(Tue May 12 1998 00:50 - ID#215379)
Could this be the time frame we are in ?
Read 2 Timothy 3:1-7

(Tue May 12 1998 00:51 - ID#31868)
mozel - I can't let you get away with that. You have your own sense of spin my
friend. My boat is a micro-system, I am the only one aboard. The system is strong and I am but one link in it. If you do not like the word system that is fine with me, but me and my little environment are well meshed and happy, and quite content.

In fact I actually do enjoy watching paint dry some days. And I assure you that there are no hyphencrats in that little environ.

(Tue May 12 1998 00:58 - ID#335190)
Tolerant1 @ 00:19
Unemployment numbers are cooked. Figures can lie, and liars can figure.

Besides, if the truth was known, very little would be done to improve the situation. The free enterprise system operates on a system of acceptable unemployment as per Adam Smith ( It must be this way, we are told, and the higher the number of unemployed, the better for commerce, and the consumer - Pain, is good for our community eh! )

"Nature and causes of wealth of Nations" ( 1776 )
"It espouses free-market competition with limited government intervention, it regards unemployment as a necessary evil to keep costs - and therefore prices--in check."

This type of Ideas to mean, that if we each look after our own interests, some "invisible hand" would mysteriously arrange things so that it all worked out for the best.

What people fail to understand about Adam Smith ( 1776 ) he was a professor of moral philosophy, not economics, built his theories on the basis of a moral community. He argued that a stable society was based on moral duty to have regard for your fellow citizens and sound social policies.

The market is a mechanism for sorting the efficient from the inefficient, it is not a substitute for social responsibility.

FWIW.....Take Care.

(Tue May 12 1998 01:02 - ID#153102)
I have seen Boats described as floatation systems, but never micro-systems.
I am almost inspired to write a ditty I would call "Boat People", words to the tune of a song you remember titled "Short People".
Are you sure there's not a nautocrat on board as a stowaway ?

(Tue May 12 1998 01:13 - ID#31868)
A sailboat is one of the last true bastions of freedom and self-reliance left on the planet.

(Tue May 12 1998 01:18 - ID#284255)
System scheming
AG & co should have hiked long ago. it is too late IMO fer an orderly decline of this PONZI scheme. It's going to collapse regardless of what the FED does . The danger in waiting is de mkt goes higher. If they are truly concerned about the mkts they should give de mkt a little tough love and hike but i think they are more politically motivated and talk de talk but do not walk de walk. The FED would rather not appear to be at fault. With all this talk about rate hikes if they don't hike the mkt may really go wild on de upside.

With Viagra such a hit, Pfizer is bringing forth a whole line of drugs
oriented towards improving the performance of men in today's society...

DIRECTRA - a dose of this drug given to men before leaving on car
trips caused 72 percent of them to stop and ask directions when
they got lost, compared to a control group of 0.2 percent.

PROJECTRA - Men given this experimental new drug were far more
likely to actually finish a household repair project before starting a
new one.

CHILDAGRA - Men taking this drug reported a sudden, over-whelming
urge to perform more child-care tasks - especially cleaning up spills
and "little accidents."

COMPLIMENTRA - In clinical trials, 82 percent of middle-aged men
administered this drug noticed that their wives had a new
hairstyle. Currently being tested to see if its effects extend to
noticing new clothing.

BUYAGRA - Married and otherwise attached men reported a sudden
urge to buy their sweeties expensive jewelry and gifts after talking
this drug for only two days. Still to be seen: whether the drug can be continued for a period longer than your favorites store's return

NEGA-VIAGRA - Has the exact opposite effect of Viagra. Currently
undergoing clinical trials on sitting U.S. presidents.

NEGA-SPORTAGRA - This drug had the strange effect of making men
want to turn off televised sports and actually converse with other
family members.

FLATULAGRA - This complex drug converts men's noxious intestinal
gases back into food solids. Special bonus: Dosage can be doubled
for long car rides.

FLYAGRA - This drug has been showing great promise in treating men
with O.F.D. ( Open Fly Disorder ) . Expecially useful for men on Viagra.

PRYAGRA - About to fail its clinical trial, this drug gave men in
the test group an irresistible urge to dig into the personal affairs
of other people. Note: Apparent over-dose turned three test subjects
into "special prosecutors."

LIAGRA - This drug causes men to be less than truthful when being
asked about their sexual affairs. Will be available Regular, Grand
Jury and Presidential Strength versions.
oleman . . Mon, May 11, 10:50PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
Both bonds and spoos should bottom on Thursday, give or take a half day.

oleman . . Mon, May 11, 11:04PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
We cant go up far from here, and my guess is it will take about 2 sessions to get the bears growling loud enough to put in a bottom. This is the second time in 2 weeks that we've tried to rally off a "soft" bottom. Next time we'll do it right, by selling all those puts first.: )

the option folk are more bullish tonight than they were friday.

oleman . . Mon, May 11, 11:15PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
Yup. But they'll not be so sanguine tomorrow. We gonna sell some puts tomorrow.

(Tue May 12 1998 01:20 - ID#284255)
A rose is a rose is a rose is a rose?

(Tue May 12 1998 01:21 - ID#153102)
I like sailboats.
For the same reasons you do.

(Tue May 12 1998 01:23 - ID#210235)
@Eye on the Balkans
Just in case you didn't have enough to worry about . . .

(Tue May 12 1998 01:23 - ID#335190)
Gianni Dioro__A @ 00:07
Jeffersons' Decimal System ( 1791 ) I am unable to give a reason for the decimal, Usury as per Religion was wrong, yet, with great care and skill and spin, the clergy and church were able to find a cause, to consider usury acceptable, to their religion, and their leader God.

Again, I do not have the exact shareholders of the First Congress incorporated Bank, except for Robert Morris, by 1791 would only be 58, he signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776. Why not all that signed the 1776 document as shareholders. Washington, was the richest man in the United States at the time.

Honest money ? Money and Power corrupt eh! Sad, A Free Nation, taken over by opportunists. yet, the people had no education. Other forces, spoke for the children of god. Hell, what chance did honest people have. Dreams and hope, hard work and a love for freedom.

Be Quiet..Consume...And Die..........Take Care.

(Tue May 12 1998 01:24 - ID#31868)
mozel - Namaste'
sharefin - priceless, truly priceless...a gulp to the two of you, one more, gulp...a good evening to you both...Namaste'

(Tue May 12 1998 01:35 - ID#266105)
@systemic mozelcrat

mozel ( @EJ ) ID#153102:
The world's debtor nation has the most credit and the world's creditor nation has no credit. I daresay even Keynes himself could have never predicted his monetary theories of debt currency would produce that result.

I foresee converging a financial crisis, economic crisis, money risis, and constitutional crisis in the midst of an information and communications system malfunction. I don't like being a gloomsayer, but this System truly appears to be brittle through and through.


Some days mozel you're just what the doctor ordered.

(Tue May 12 1998 01:36 - ID#224149)
Where are the slime rich oil states to be found? Talk about 700,000 deaths to the Oil Ministers You
Mr. Geldof, who initiated the Live Aid concerts to raise money for the famines in Ethiopia 14 years ago, made the appeal on the BBC Six Oclock News.
"The individual is simply not powerless in this world in the face of that sort of inhumanity," he said.
"You have got immense power, and it is to find the outrage, to say, `this is still happening, we can stop it'.
"The political will is necessary to stop it happening in perpetuity.
"It almost appears impenetrable, but it's not impenetrable, these things never are impenetrable."
According to the BBC Diplomatic Correspondent, James Robbins, the famine could be stopped.
However, the Islamic Sudanese Government in Khartoum is deliberately limiting international food drops to the south to weaken Christian forces fighting for independence.
Both sides refuse to give ground and up to 350,000 people are at risk of starvation.
The Khartoum government told the BBC the international community should put pressure on the rebels to declare a ceasefire.
Mr Geldof said: "It would be relatively easy to create so much pressure on the government and indeed the rebels that allows some sort of compromise solution that would save, potentially, 350,000 people."
Sudan, which is the largest country in Africa, has been plagued by a succession of unstable civilian and military governments since it gained independence in 1956.
Its population has endured many years of civil war with splits along political, tribal and religious lines. Some 73% of the population are Sunni Muslims, mainly in the north, and 17% follow tribal religions.
The country itself covers nearly a million square miles, borders nine other nations and has a population of about 25 million, with 4.5 million living in the capital Khartoum.

(Tue May 12 1998 01:47 - ID#190411)
Why don't you set up a small business yourself, especially in manufacturing?

You could buy, not with gold, but with legal tender of your own country, the tools that your downtrodden compatriots could learn to use to their benefit. Let's say for the sake of an example: 300,000 USD for a computerised machining center. ( typical for me ) . Few will bother to learn the rather easy programming commands needed to tell the machine what to do.

- The Chinese will, the Koreans will, the Singaporeans will , Thais, maybe, Puerto Ricans-Never.

Also, there are the resentful Canadians: We hate the USA, they took all of the easy life from "The Canadians/iens". So, 6pak, in my limited experience with Canadian labor, I would prefer not to deal with them, their grudges, their collectivism.

How many freedom loving; ( true freedom, not freedom from wanting the efforts of their neighbour's labor ) Canadians live in Ontario, let alone, the maritimes?

I like the Canadians that post here, for the most part, because, they are the people that are valuable to any society.- The Doers, the ones that can analyse situations, and can give their energies to solve the economic problem.

Mr. 6pak, I do see your points about the governments using the "common people" as the fodder for Imperialism, etc., but, to condemn capitalists, such as myself, to the same level of ethics as Mssrs. Camdessus, Greenspan, Rubin, Clinton, Suharto, Roosevelt, Mussolini, Hitler, Keynes, Mobutu, Nixon, etc. ad infinitum; is out of bounds.

You might just want to see who your friends really are.

(Tue May 12 1998 01:49 - ID#255151)

Thanks, I had missed Mozel's post on the credit/debt situation vis a vis the US/Japan. Looks extreme and unstable, eh? ( like I say, if you blink, you miss some good stuff here ) Thanks again for catching that.

(Tue May 12 1998 02:01 - ID#266105)

tsclaw ( RANGY ( Randgold ) ANYONE ) ID#177146:
A few hour ago I posted to this forum requesting info on RANGY action in the last six week. I
got no reply. I sure would appreciate an update as I have been traveling for six weeks. Rangy
hasn't reacted to the upside as most of the South African have done while I was gone. Whats
up with RANGY?????


This quarterly report was less than jubilant.

'Randgold posts R160M cash loss.'

Myself, still holding and added.


(Tue May 12 1998 02:03 - ID#266105)

Any time.

(Tue May 12 1998 02:20 - ID#280222)
TSCLAW and 2BRO2B: Didn't RANGY's CEO announce that it's usefulness as a holding co. was at an end, and it would be assimilated by years end?... AS FOR ME I'm holding, doubling, and considering tripling. Still enjoying those DDeeps shares we got when Blyvoors was assimilated.

(Tue May 12 1998 02:22 - ID#280222)
Where the heck has Cherokee been? No hear'um war whoops.

(Tue May 12 1998 02:27 - ID#290118)
tolerant1, mozel, miro, Georg_A, et al
Are any of you related to Captain Aaron Sheffield?
Do you know a ship named Dora?
When do you think GOLD will buy us the stars?

(Tue May 12 1998 02:28 - ID#266105)

As best I can reconnoiter Rangold is a fluid critter,
various structures envisioned going forward depending...

It's another story week by week, month after month.
Lotta pieces, many of them marginal, any which could fly
given a decent uptick in price of gold. Other pieces
likely good as gold at present price if operational
plans pan out.

(Tue May 12 1998 02:43 - ID#255267)
@Dioro Chips
I've been combing the net in search of a confirmed list of items that will not function after 0000, 1/1/2000. I can not find such a list.
Even down to the least significant item. I'm going to check with an electronics repair shop where my VCR was fixed to see if the guy has tested any items thus far. Details at ten.
If there any tech people on this forum please post any confirmed chip failures in electronics equipment. Given the high exposure of this site the word might travel fast.
I would surely like to know if the timer in the coffee maker is going to provide that much needed cup o joe on Jan 1.

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 02:46 - ID#24135)
For SDRer
Yes .. Jack is my REAL brother. I never heard of
this guy Russell.
For Poorboy...
What is your point on Geldorf or Geldork ( depending on
how you pronounce it ) . Did you know this phony NEVER
spends ANY of the OWN money on anything. He uses this
ploy to keep himself in the limelight. Otherwise he
would plunge into the obscurity he richly deserves.
For tsclaw ..
Re Rangy.. My theory is that market temporarily
stunned by revelation that the mine at Syama will
cost some money. Also rumours from Mali about mud
snakes jungle leopards etc. Not to fret. Believe
Indiana Jones being sent in to fix things up. Mining
in shadow of Joburg easiest cheapest in the world.
Stay cool and hope Syama starts making money .. 2nd
quarter maybe 3rd quarter I think yes.

(Tue May 12 1998 02:48 - ID#255151)
RANGY--Tsclaw, 2BR02B

Look here for chart of the last 3 months of RanGold, with links to long and short term charts, and news releases--

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 02:49 - ID#24135)
That Little Gritty Burp..
He REALLY knows how to hurt a guy !!
For Aztec..
I'm not so sure I'm gonna be functioning
after the year 2000.

(Tue May 12 1998 02:50 - ID#266105)
@another issue

Figures must make sense to investors

SPARE a thought for Johannesburg Stock Exchange ( JSE ) gold
analysts, who are frantically redoing their models to take account of new accounting methods at some mines, but not others.

In the latest round of gold quarterlies Gengold, JCI and Gold
Fields' mines stuck with previous methods, with capital
expenditure reported using the "appropriation method" - that is, it is deducted in full from profits when it is spent rather than being amortised ( depreciated ) , as it would be by industrial companies or non-SA gold mines.

But Randgold used amortisation in reporting on its five
Nasdaq-listed mines and appropriation for the rest, Anglogold
introduced "dual reporting", and amortisation was used at Avgold, the new company which brought together Anglovaal's three mines and its exploration activities.

Anglo, which has introduced also International Accounting
Standards, is not causing analysts too many problems: with both sets of figures, comparisons can be made with other SA mines and those of Australia and North America.

Randgold, which led the pack in dual reporting, provided a
reconciliation of amortisation and appropriation in its 1996 annual reports.

But Avgold has some perplexed. The shift is the least of it; more complex are tax and other issues related to the merger of Hartebeestfontein, Loraine and ET Cons and the exploration
activities in Target.

Generally this round of quarterlies showed favourable trends in productivity and cost containment.

And the changes in reportage reflect mining houses' increasing attention to their image and ratings on global markets. It is up to them to ensure analysts - and investors - can make sense of the figures.

(Tue May 12 1998 03:02 - ID#255267)
@Jack Russell
The Little Gnat Ba_tard was up in arms today. Must have forgotten those pills.
Gagnrad has the best idea. A duel of sorts. Choose your financial weapons.
Each man gets 100K the morning of June 1. All purchases and sales must be posted at real time. The highest value as of 12/1/98 is entitled to bandwidth bragging rights. The loser, forum wide abuse without the luxury of recourse. The rules are there are no rules. All investment vehicles are free game.
All players welcome!

(Tue May 12 1998 03:09 - ID#284255)
Here are some medical chip failures listed.

This is from the OZ gov't Y200 site

Not all items are effected but many are.
It shows how nothing with a chip inside it is sacred.

Maybe/maybe not.

I have seen other lists but will have to search them up.
There are many chips in many things we use that are at risk.

Hang Seng below 10,000

(Tue May 12 1998 03:12 - ID#316193)
Following What's Happening in Japan, This Report on Bankruptcies Tells a Bunch
"Lives are becoming unstable due to restructuring and
bankruptcy....the increasing spread of the feeling of recession,
corporate bankruptcy is showing a tendency to increase, and
economies are becoming more of a bewilderment." ( Stilted
English, but easy to understand. )

(Tue May 12 1998 03:28 - ID#255151)

Just read that article in Teikoku that you posted. That's a lot worse than we hear. I've not heard this from mainstream American news sources. You don't suppose they would downplay and misrepresent the true scope of this problem, eh!

(Tue May 12 1998 03:31 - ID#255267)
I checked out the medical site. Just as I suspected, someone sure had the time to load all the equipment data but when it came time to post the Y2K info all the test fields just say N/A. Yeah right. Just dont get sick new years eve. Thanks for the post.

(Tue May 12 1998 03:33 - ID#316193)
The "human" side of the news is much more important than
"corporate". It's rare to find an article ( especially from
Japan ) , that tells the real story. I appreciate your comments.

(Tue May 12 1998 04:02 - ID#255151)

We are privileged to have posters who report to us the real human side of the story. An example of this are the posts from JIN. There are many other examples here.

(Tue May 12 1998 04:14 - ID#316193)
Auric, Your Comment About Jin, You Are Absolutely Correct!!
I wish we had a thousand like him! Unfortunately, he's
only one, but a very special person.

(Tue May 12 1998 05:02 - ID#183109)
some RANGY high tech EXPLORATION shots....

Below is what I stated in my Gold - Eagle article a while back. And I'm pleased to report that the 8 million ounce figure is now over 14 million ounces and rising. Why someone would panic and sell an EXPLORATION company due to losses is beyond me. The only fair judge of exploration companies are the results they are getting with their EXPLORATION. Did I mention that Randgold and Exploration is an EXPLORATION company :- ) !!

RANDGOLD RESOURCES ( RR ) , 57.3% owned by RANGY
While other South African companies have allowed themselves to wither on the vine, RR's geologists have been scouring the African continent, continuing to make very impressive additions to the total gold reserves of this new exploration company. RR has nearly 200 exploration targets, spread throughout Africa. RR geologists working in 22 permit areas in 7 countries have already amassed over 8 million attributable gold ounces, of which 86% are measured and indicated. On-going discoveries indicate this figure will be significantly increased again this quarter. It is conservatively estimated within the next two years RR will be producing nearly 500,000 ounces of gold at a very low production cost. RANGY management estimates a positive cash flow of $50-million a year with gold at $320 an ounce

(Tue May 12 1998 05:03 - ID#257148)

I wish to add my voice to yours on JIN's contributions. A week or two ago JIN requested HELP with option trading and commodity trading strategies. I was not able to follow through. JIN did you get the help you asked for?

I would like to think the forum would make utmost endeavours to assist such a valued contributor who asks such valid questions, YES?

I must away to the Capitol for a few days, that's Wellington. Y'all may be suprised, but seven, count them, seven, fault lines, converge on "The Beehive", the NZ House of Representatives. Our Parliament. Hot air and earthquakes, a rum mix.

Oh I do like to be in earthquake countery.

Windy Wellington, he he

(Tue May 12 1998 05:27 - ID#316193)
Hong Kong & S. Korea, Real Trouble
While I've been searching for what's happening in Japan,
I missed this:

H.K. Index at 9,841.51 Down 2.52%
S.K. " " 351.86 Down 2.69%

(Tue May 12 1998 05:36 - ID#288140)
JIN @ aurator
I hesitate to give you this link because it's not working at the moment. As I recall, "Option Fool" is good page with a lot of information and a zillion links. Hopefully it will come up again soon.

(Tue May 12 1998 05:36 - ID#255151)
Leland--Asian Downturn

Yes, Hong Kong has slipped below 10,000, Japan is flirting with 15,000, and S. Korea seems to lose 2+% nightly.

(Tue May 12 1998 05:38 - ID#257148)
they shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old.......
what chance is there that Byron would return to post here? He is missed. He left at the time of the password regime and has not been seen since. ( unless under ANOTHER sobriquet ) Might he return?

(Tue May 12 1998 05:43 - ID#288140)
Kitco Bar & Grill

This Week at KB&G & maybe next week as well.
Liquor in front , Poker in rear.
Food Fight Fisticuffs out back in the alley.
No Dueling allowed.

Mozart, Bach, & Beethoven, then Free for All Talent Night.
All you can drink for a pinch of Gold Dust
In the back room: How to hotrod your AK-47

Rock & Roll Rumble
All Cuervo drinks on the house.
In the back room: Canadian Poker, Passem & 7-Card Push

Dance to Country Western & Polka
All the pickles you can eat.
In the backroom: An Evening of Poetry & Gold-Panner Spelling Bee

All Night Down and Dirty Blues Jam
Any vodka drink free.
In the back room: Way Cool Ouija

Cowabunga Chicken Fried Steak & Schlitz on the House
Yello, then an Old Time Hootenanny!
Wet Kitco T-Shirt Contest
In the backroom: Lost wax gold casting

Saigon Style Grilled Pork Chop, Rice & Black Beans w/complimentary Martinis
Slack Key Guitar
Gnarly Cool Jazz
Bar Room Stunts, Games, Riddles and Puzzles Night
In the backroom: Survival Gardening

Brunch: Champagne & Lobster
Hymns & Gospel
Forget-Yer-Troubles Blues, Rags, and Hollers
Ladies Night*
In the backroom: Golden Days Quilting Bee & reloading the .45 Auto
Jello, Key Lime Pie & coffee.
*actually every night is Ladies Night @ KB&G

Something for everybody, now thats worth droppin in once in a while for, aint it?

(Tue May 12 1998 05:48 - ID#316193)
I remember those Lehman Bros. call warrants on Hang Seng with
January '98 expiration. They did "great" in early 1997 with
the index above 14,000. I guess Lehman has taught a few good
lessons in Asian investments since then.

(Tue May 12 1998 05:49 - ID#257148)

your 00:23 was remininscent of my sister's nursely advice when I told here I swallowed a contact lens. She said, "A sieve will only cost a couple of dollars."


Information Brochure #223

From the Ministry of Cuprolites


(Tue May 12 1998 05:54 - ID#288140)
Good night aurator.
Did you kill your ICQ? I don't blame you if you did.

(Tue May 12 1998 05:57 - ID#252391)
And the summer duldrums are next
Looking like we can forget making any quick bucks on the long side of these markets. With HK, Japan and KOREA doing the "wipe OUT" we will see what gold is made of. Noticed that silver copper and platinum were down yesterday. Wondering if this is a signal of approaching recession.

All of Euopre is down with the exception of Greece; all of Asia was down with the exception of Phillipines and Pakistan, I think.

Who siad it the other day that the one thing that would make gold go up was nucular terrorism and yesterday we had India testing bombs and warnings that the remains of the Chernobul mess have dangerous implications.

Yes, I think these metals will really scream one day. But I think it will be a vastly different place, economically and politically. Sometime I think we are doing the world a favor holding on to our precious metals. If we sold out the shorts wouldn't have any thing to do but cover and play the upside touching off the closing rounds of world economic and political havoc.

(Tue May 12 1998 05:58 - ID#257148)
Anyone have an idea why Merril Lynch is advertising on NZ TV at the moment? A very strange development?


(Tue May 12 1998 06:00 - ID#257148)
ICQ terminated

(Tue May 12 1998 06:10 - ID#288140)
I thought that must be the case.
Sorry about the agro you must have experienced.
Take care.

(Tue May 12 1998 06:15 - ID#255151)
Europe Stock Markets If European stock markets catch the Asian flu and collapse, what would that do to the EURO?

(Tue May 12 1998 06:16 - ID#252391)
Silver up
Well, we have silver up a midge -reflex rally. South African golds up 2.2% on their highs. But the Kitco quotes having problems . . picked a good time as there doesn't seem to be much interest.

(Tue May 12 1998 06:34 - ID#26793)
Byron is missed by me also. He was a great XAU man. I think he posted from a library and the password thing probably kept him from access but I bet he is still lurking. Hi Byron.

(Tue May 12 1998 06:39 - ID#255151)
U.S. Threatens Sweeping Sanctions Over India Nuclear Tests

Whereas, the Indians see the A-bomb test in a more positive light-- ( They got a lot of Silver, right? )

Bully Beef
(Tue May 12 1998 06:43 - ID#259261)
Empolyment # in US.
I strongly suspect there are many people in the US who are not in stastistics. Wheneveri have been on the wrong side of the tracks in a large urban centre in the US unemployment looked much higher. But heh what would I know? Gold is great! ALLOY!

(Tue May 12 1998 06:44 - ID#286199)
WSJ - Interactive
PRECIOUS METALS: Falling silver prices and concern about building unrest in east Asia led commodities indexes lower. With protests in Indonesia growing increasingly violent in recent days, traders have discovered "a resurgence of fear that Asia will bring some more commodity-price deflation," said Dinsa Mehta, managing director of global commodities for
Chase Manhattan Bank. The Bridge Commodity Research Bureau index slipped 1.63 to 223.51, less than a point from its four-year low set in January.
One of the biggest losers was silver. At the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange, silver for July delivery fell 23 cents, or 3.9%, to $5.732 an ounce. "Silver had a sharper drop than most," said Mr.
Mehta, because investors drawn to the metal by billionaire investor Warren Buffett's large holding have become discouraged. Jim Riley, chief gold trader at J. Aron & Co. in New York, said silver's weakness had more to do with recent fall-off in industrial-metals prices. In addition to its use in jewelry, silver is used in flatware, photography and electrical goods. Mr. Riley speculated that prices would level off at $5.50 an ounce, a level which he said is likely to draw buying from India, a value-sensitive silver consumer.

(Tue May 12 1998 06:51 - ID#255151)
Duck and Cover

British geologists reported an earth tremor measuring 4.7 on the Richter scale near the India-Pakistan border, believed to be caused by India's underground nuclear tests. As reported in the India Times.

(Tue May 12 1998 06:52 - ID#286199)
India's neighborhood

The Clinton administration gave China guidance technology for ICBMs and now acts stunned that India has ramped up their defense. geeesh

How can this not be good for the pog? pos?

(Tue May 12 1998 07:05 - ID#341189)
I"m curious about the action in the JGLD
Does anyone know the inflation rate in SA? The rand is weaker by about 4% against the dollar so far this year, leaving the price of gold in rand ( sorry Donald ) higher now than the late Jan peak. Not true in dollars. Are people there running out of rand into gold shares? What's up?

(Tue May 12 1998 07:08 - ID#255151)

This Vajpayee dude, Prime Minister of India, head of the Hindu National Party, and scourge of the "well established China-Pakistan axis" looks like a real sabre rattler.

(Tue May 12 1998 07:11 - ID#26793)
Japanese banks disposed of 10.5 trillion yen of bad loans in year ending March 31st.

(Tue May 12 1998 07:13 - ID#286199)
If I lived next to 1 billion Chicoms with nukes, I'd rattle one hell of a big sabre. ; )

Away to morning calesthenics

(Tue May 12 1998 07:19 - ID#26793)
JGB's are the "ultimate risk free investment" says S&P (gold not mentioned

(Tue May 12 1998 07:21 - ID#412286)
Earnings Surprise
Royal Oak Mines annouced this AM that it made 2 cents per share in the first qtr beating analysts estimates of a loss of 20 cents per share. Projected low cost Kemess Mine financing is also complete but for the signing and the mine will commence production in a few days the company said. The mine is projected to produce 250000 oz per year at a cost of approximately 140 per oz with a copper credit of .80 and 300 gold.

(Tue May 12 1998 07:23 - ID#255151)

Heh heh. Especially if the U.S. gave China top secret technology that enabled their nuclear delivery capability. My understanding is that Chinese missiles can now accurately target U.S. cities as a result of the Clinton Administration's moves.

(Tue May 12 1998 07:28 - ID#26793)
Oil price deflation hurting Russia

(Tue May 12 1998 07:32 - ID#26793)
Japan in deflationary spiral as wholesale prices plunge to lowest level in 10 years.

(Tue May 12 1998 07:35 - ID#255151)
U.S. Intelligence Clueless

Well, looks like our "intelligence" was caught napping on this A bomb thing--

(Tue May 12 1998 07:38 - ID#255151)
Corrected URL

U.S. Intelligence asleep at the switch--

(Tue May 12 1998 07:38 - ID#26793)
Oil price deflation hurting Venezuela

(Tue May 12 1998 07:42 - ID#252391)
Carl, I second your question
what's up with JGLD - it's up 2.25% this morning in rather eratci quotation from Yahoo, but up is up. Dollar is 5.07 to one Rand up about a cent in the last week. The JGLD is only about 3% away from a 52 week high. Last time these quotes were seen Gold was around 312 making its double top. South African equites are down 1.5%. Perhaps grasping at straw, but it would seem the South African gold shares are doing what one would expect - that'll be the day for US quoted gold shares. Hope JGLD is a leading indicator though I have noticed strenght there does not necessary translate across the Atlantic.

Go Haromony.

(Tue May 12 1998 07:48 - ID#412172)
Donald, Byron
Hi Donald,
I just happened across a couple of posts from Byron on one of SI threads. Believe it or not he has just turned bearish on the xau. I will say Hi or whatever for you, if you don't do SI.

(Tue May 12 1998 08:00 - ID#286199)
MADS last hope for POOP
Macho American Drivers ( MADs ) are the best hope for saving the Price Of OPEC Petroleum ( POOP ) . OPEC is not achieving their agreed cutbacks and prices are softening. ( let the cheating begin! ) But, in just a couple of weeks the summer driving season begins in the U.S. and MADs are purchasing trucks and SUVs ( Sports Utility Vehicles ) in record numbers. These heavy, fuel guzzlin', geo smashing beasts are the bane of rush hour traffic, but with gas prices below a dollar, a busy season is expected. Go long gasoline, ambulance and hospital stocks!

Do not underestimate the ability of U.S. consumption to save the world's economies! ; )

(Tue May 12 1998 08:11 - ID#341189)
Yes, it would be nice to think that gold shares would stregthen against a general market decline. In a gradual decline, this might very well occur. But in a panic, the rush to liquidity would crush all IMHO.

(Tue May 12 1998 08:14 - ID#341189)
"stregthen" means "straight up" in Carl spell.

(Tue May 12 1998 08:18 - ID#113316)
Silver Price
Am I missing something? A single seller came into the London market yesterday morning ( London time ) and sold a substantial amount of silver driving the price down and triggering a series of stop-loss sales by the legion of speculators who were net long by a wide margin. This drove the price down by about 25 cents were it stayed more or less the rest of the day. Although all but one news article yesterday provided any of a number of "fundamental reasons" for the decline, none of them appear to me to be even remotely connected to reality.

In the past two years I have been following silver prices daily, I have seen this happen time and again. When the commercials are net short and the speculators are net long ( but with tight stop-loss protection ) , any player with only a fair amount of resources can come into the market, dump a pile of silver, and cause this stop-loss cascade. To me it has the look of market manipulation, and it will continue as long as speculators continue to play the short term swings in this market, which is thin and has always been volatile.

Silver is headed higher. Sustained prices in the $8 to $10 range are inevitable. Higher prices are possible if not likely if we get a shift in asset allocation by investors. Yesterday's article on Canadian pension fund increasing by 500% its commitment to commodities was the most important article I read!

(Tue May 12 1998 08:31 - ID#43460)
Day 2 of the investor formerly known as 223 breaking his silence to LGB
But no response from LGB. Is LGB afraid of the Yahoo investment challenge or merely asleep in the Peoples Republic of California sunshine?

(Tue May 12 1998 08:44 - ID#7568)

As the silver price declines, it begins to attract larger fundamental players to the game. Some of the little birds that are kind enough to share information with me, report that there has been some significant producer interest in buying back hedges at or near these levels. Prices that they were comfortable selling 6 months ago, now seem like bargains.

The mining hedge book for silver is not insignificant. FV estimates it in the several hundred million ounce range, while others peg it closer to 100 million ounces. Reality probably lies somewhere in between. Someone was kind enough to send me an email reporting that Barrick alone had 30 million ounces of silver hedged as per their 1997 annual report.

Given the thinness of these markets, any attempts to cover hedges in the tens of millions of ounces is going to have an extremely positive effect upon the price.

Here's hoping it happens sooner, rather than later. Good day to all.

(Tue May 12 1998 08:47 - ID#258427)
Up-to-date POG and POS spot??
Does anyone have up-to-date sources are not updating! thanx.

(Tue May 12 1998 08:50 - ID#222231)
gagnrad-a shadow of his former self!
Is the SILVER market ASB or NAB?

(Tue May 12 1998 08:51 - ID#224149)
Let them eat dirt and drink oil
Disney Geldof is a necessary spark to wake the sleeping media to report the death of children through starvation. What is happening in Sudan is a Shame to the New World order and myself as a human being. Away to work.

(Tue May 12 1998 08:52 - ID#7568)

There were no 50 million ounce buyers yesterday. There was however a fund sitting on the 575 level with a strong bid. Estimations are that they bought something on the order of 3.5 million ounces at the price and were looking for more. They may have around a 10 million ounce appetite but not much more. The fact that we closed lower was not necessarily indicative that they were filled entirely, because they were in and out of the market all day.

(Tue May 12 1998 08:53 - ID#255151)
To The Poster Formerly Known As 223

gagnard--Took the plunge in the Yahoo contest. My $100,000 fantasy portfolio is short 1186 shares of Microsoft. Loral, that bastion of patriotism, would be a dark horse candidate for shorting due to their Chi-Com missile targeting technology aid disclosures and pending Congressional investigation thereof.

(Tue May 12 1998 08:59 - ID#26793)
Thank you. Please do. I only do Kitco. I sold 25% of my XAU proxy position a week or so ago. Guess you have to say I am leaning to bearish also.

(Tue May 12 1998 09:02 - ID#255217)
ASB, NAB...Which?
Guess I'm not up on all the latest abbreviations and acronyms. Silver may be ASB or NAB or both and I wouldn't know the difference. As long as it's not DOA, I guess it's OK. Maybe it IS DOA. Could someone enlighten me?

(Tue May 12 1998 09:02 - ID#342315)
A. Goose re Veneroso
Have you got an email or website for FV? TIA, Charlie

(Tue May 12 1998 09:02 - ID#288369)
@Speed....oil on the oceans.........
According to a very knowledgeable group in Houston, the evidence suggests that the oil producers have made the 1.5 mmbbl/day cutback...this is based on the movement of tankers on the water. Here's to ANOTHER 1.0 mmbbl/day cutback, and $22./bbl. oil! Inflation, my only true business partner, yes.

(Tue May 12 1998 09:09 - ID#26793)
Sure, the cutback may cure a price problem but it creates a cash flow problem and forces them to go right back to pumping as usual in order to service the debt. This causes a price problem which leads to cutbacks and....... ( return to "creates" above )

(Tue May 12 1998 09:11 - ID#288186)
Current gold/silver prices
June Comex Gold @ 300.40
July Comex Silver @ 5.74

(Tue May 12 1998 09:22 - ID#288369)
I'm not privy to Saudi Arabia's, Kuwait, UAB's, Venezuela's and Mexico's banking arrangements. Are you? The cutbacks will be a natural occuring result of diminished capitalization of oil production facilities, well maintenance and exploration programs ( replacement of proved producing reserves ) .

Perhaps we are seeing the first signs of the natural choking of the supply...this is the "normal" economic evolution which I've watched and learned from over the past twenty years. Wells are not being repaired....they break every few months, believe to repair them have never been more expensive....and like most producers in the midcontinent, we are allowing wells to go offline due to mechanical failure...we are at 63% of BOPD as the same period last year.....and we have no debt. Figure it yourself. I've been doing this ( figuring ) a lot lately, as has most of my counterparts.

(Tue May 12 1998 09:34 - ID#288369)
To the non-theoretical world of pumping oil, abandoning broken wells and giving oil away at a cash loss. Have a profitable day! GO GOLDBUGS!!!

(Tue May 12 1998 09:35 - ID#398105)
Gone for a week, and look what happens......

At least one thing is consistant.....

05/08/1998 $5,485,869,171,398.56

Guess what this is ?

Did you hear about the Irishman who locked his keys in his car ?
After a two hour discussion, his wife, who was in the car, could not understand what he was saying.

The GOLD price, must have been invented by an Irish scientist who invented a cure for which there is no known disease.

Och aye the noooooooooooooo.......

(Tue May 12 1998 09:35 - ID#255151)
Loral--NYSE Symbol LOR

Done quite well for itself the last few years. Trading around 30 now. Up from 11+ in the last year. Here is a summary and chart-- Loral shareholders and executives who get stock options, should be aware of the danger to Loral's stock price, posed by this missile technology transfer to the ChiComs thingy.

(Tue May 12 1998 09:36 - ID#113316)
Couldn't resist on this collateral issue to precious metal prices. The price of oil will be what Saudi Arabia wants it to be. In the 1979-84 price bubble, Saudi Arabian production was cut back to as low as 4.5 million bbl per day. Current production is 8 to 10 million bbl a day. Saudi Arabia alone could cut production enough to send prices up!

However, Saudi Arabia learned its lesson at that time. It held to its production quotas while every other OPEC member cheated. It does not want to go it alone, and will not support prices unless other producers also show restraint.

Will they? If the pain gets great enough, I think they will.

Also note news article yesterday that demand from Asia is picking up again. For the short term, Asian refiners were able to cut back purchases and live off their inventory. That's about over. Look for increasing demand through the end of the year.

Predicting oil prices is risky business, because it requires making the correct prediction on what these "banana republic" style governments are going to do ( it has been correct to bet against them for over a decade now ) . However, one must realize the spread between production capability and demand has been narrowing steadily since 1985 and now there is really only a small margin, even including IRAQ production.

Interesting that some of these arguments also apply to precious metals!

(Tue May 12 1998 09:46 - ID#29048)
World Gold Council steps up to the plate....
London Study Expects Slow-Down In Short-Term Forward Gold Sales

(Tue May 12 1998 10:03 - ID#255151)
NY Times On Nuke Tests By India

New York Times believes this is a serious development. Well, I can't exactly blame the Indians. It is absolutely hypocritical for the U.S. to condemn and threaten India, after the U.S. enhanced China's nuclear capability with some of their best technology.

Mike Stewart
(Tue May 12 1998 10:05 - ID#270253)
Technical Update
Good Morning,

The Toronto Mining Issue McClellan Summation Index is still in decline. This remains a short term negative.

New Lows from Toronto Mining Issues have increased past the benchmark safety level of 5 issues per day. Yesterday, we had 8 New Lows. I like to smooth this out over two weeks. We have only had two days with more than 5 New Lows in the past 10 days. This indicator is normal for a correction.

A 2% trend line increasing WEEKLY from the last low usually contains corrections. It held precisely last week and is now testing the trend at 7229 this week. So far, so good.

No momentum in either direction here. I continue to hold gold shares, but on a short leash. The big South Africans are holding up well ( Anglogold, Gold Fields, Harmony ) and they don't usually lie.

Mike Stewart
(Tue May 12 1998 10:06 - ID#270253)
Technical Update
The 2% trendline I refered to, is based on the Toronto Gold Mining Index available from Yahoo.

(Tue May 12 1998 10:07 - ID#410215)
..... Rumors .....

No sign of any big buyers in silver yet, at least not the size that was rumored last week.

I hope everybody here understands that a rumor is just that; and that I reported it as such.


(Tue May 12 1998 10:17 - ID#212197)
My thouyghts to Henry Kissinger's article about the EURO
The Washington Post publishes H.K.'s article about the "New Union in Europe" today on page A19.

The Post always prints what Henry has to say. That's how these networks work. He doesn't seem happy about what he is observing. His major hope is, that the American government might influence events on the old Roman principles of "divide et impera". It's obvious that the chief strategist of the CFR doesn't exactly know how to deal with the situation.

On the one hand, he doesn't really want for the EURO to become a debacle,
"...but this by no means implies unconditional support for simply any form of European unification. The American interest is in a Europe open to transatlantic cooperation, not only verbally but also institutionally."

I have a hard time reading Kissinger when he writes about Europe. When I hear him speaking of "cooperation" I hear him saying "domination". Yes, I'm paranoid with the idea of American domination and I believe that Europe has never had any agin from the first steps on, when America started to conquer Europe.

But there are many other reasons why it takes me such a long time to read about Europe here in America. And most of it has nothing to do with Henry Kissinger at all. After each paragraph I'm reading, my thoughts and my dreams are taking off. I couldn't finish this article all along the 45 minutes metro ride, downtown to Washington D.C. where I have the questionable pleasure to work on Y2K problems.

My dreams are taking off. I think of the wonderful city and town centers, with these old, old buildings, this wonderful architecture, where I was sitting with Larissa somewhere in these open air street caffees, enjoying an expresso or a Campari soda. Yes, what I miss most here in America is the beauty of the architecture of the cities in Europe. And the more to the South you go, the more beautiful it becomes.

When I think of Europe these days, I think of a wonderful mosaic of cultures, languages, peoples, customes, cuisines. It seems as if everything is just wonderful! And I was such a trouble maker, as long as I lived there, never happy with anything, criticizing everything!

I'm a little shy about it, but now I'll try to translate a very small poem, which came to my mind, after I lived here, away from my homeland, for a couple of years.

Offshore, looking back

Are we drifted along by the wind,
wafting away again
and asking: I was not there, and I'm not here.

Alberich the Dwarf

(Tue May 12 1998 10:21 - ID#341206)
Taxes in Canada
Does anyone here know of a tax advisor who is well versed in canadian tax law. If so please e-mail me at: Thank you.

(Tue May 12 1998 10:23 - ID#373284)
Auric - I could not agree more, the USG and the Coward Erect have nothing to
say to India, in fact I am glad India performed the test and put China on alert. Good for them.

(Tue May 12 1998 10:28 - ID#373284)
ALBERICH_A - The reason that Henry the paid for piehole Kissinger gets so
much play in the media, etc. is because he is bank-rolled by some of the largest trans-national corporations on the planet.

TRUST NOTHING that comes out of his mouth. I personally would like to stuff a great big Oklahoma ranch apple in his gaping paid for pie hole.

(Tue May 12 1998 10:40 - ID#255151)

Read this article from 1989. Addresses your question.

(Tue May 12 1998 10:47 - ID#432157)
Who is Nick Gaurino mentioned by USAGOLD???????

(Tue May 12 1998 10:50 - ID#269409)
Summarized daily Gold report

(Tue May 12 1998 10:50 - ID#228100)
Indian Nuke - Great opportunity for Clinton to "Do Something"
Perhaps Clinton remembers the Iran/Iraq conflict about ten years ago. The USA sold munitions to everyone, let them kill each other, and then let God sort out the good guys from the bad guys.

He should also remember that a subsequent hands-off approach resulted in a conflict that put thousands of US soldiers and sailors at risk in the Persian Gulf war.

There will never be a better time for Clinton to display a measure of leadership in the world community. Clinton must decide which countries are most important to the long-term interests of the USA. This nuke incident should be a wake-up call. With so many historic, cultural, and diplomatic ties to Asian countries that are military rivals to China ( India, South Korea, Taiwan.... ) , why has the USA been trying so hard to appease China? Just because Chinas going to be the worlds largest economy one of these days, does that mean that we should trade weapons technology for sneakers?

Oh well... Long term, the uncertainty in this region should be great news for the POG...

(Tue May 12 1998 10:51 - ID#373284)
Auric - yes my friend, there should be more articles like that.
Henry Kissinger - the best piehole transnationals can buy. A puppet, it is nice to see that some are interested in who is pulling his strings.

(Tue May 12 1998 10:52 - ID#373284)
Year2000 - the Coward Erect will do NOTHING.
He is bought and paid for by the Chinese...

(Tue May 12 1998 10:56 - ID#210235)
@World markets
awash in red ink.

(Tue May 12 1998 11:00 - ID#244418)
Treasury Department can't make y2k deadline
Dr. Gary North's Y2K website posted this article today:
Joel Willemssen is the General Accounting Office's y2k specialist. His May 7 testimony to the House Ways & Means Committee highlighted just how far behind the U.S. Treasury is.

He did not say the government is going to collapse. But two things are obvious from his testimony: ( 1 ) if the Treasury doesn't make it, the U.S. government will collapse; ( 2 ) the Treasury is not going to make it.

Here's why. The assessment phase is 5% of any y2k repair project, says the California White Paper. Before assessment comes awareness ( 1% ) and inventory ( 1% ) . The Treasury has not completed its assessment:

"Despite these actions, Treasury and its bureaus face other major risks that must be managed effectively if key systems are to be ready in time. For example, the assessment phase -- during which the compliance of mission-critical systems is determine -- has not been completed. This is worrisome because it reduces the amount of time left for critical renovation, validation, and implementation activities. Treasury's milestone for assessing all mission-critical systems was July 1997. However, as of the end of March 1998, FMS still had not completed assessing the compliance of five of its mission-critical systems."

The Treasury therefore has at least 95% of its project ahead of it, as of late March, 1998.

It's over. No matter what the media say, the brokerage houses say, the politicians say, or your wife's brother-in-law says, it's over. The U.S. government will collapse in 2000. T-bills: dead. T-bonds: dead. Money market funds: dead. Retirement programs: dead. U.S. dollar ( electronic version ) : dead. Foreign central banks that allow the Federal Reserve to store their gold, and who buy T-bills instead of holding gold: dead.

The end of the 300-year-old central banking experiment is at hand. We're going back to an all-cash society.

I know. It can't be true. It just can't. Can't, can't, can't.


* * * * * * * * *

(Tue May 12 1998 11:00 - ID#269409)
Silver Standard Reserve
SSRIF up 4%, not bad with silver languishing today. Investors may know something that Silver bears at Merril Lynch don't eh?

(Tue May 12 1998 11:02 - ID#373284)
Year2000 - the Coward Erect at work with China...

(Tue May 12 1998 11:02 - ID#194311)
Platinum rumour
dropping like a lead sinker.....

Cage Rattler
(Tue May 12 1998 11:04 - ID#33184)
Y2K measurement flaws
As far as I remember, the California White paper measured percentages in terms of the COST involved and not the time involved. Can one say that 5% cost is equal to 5% of the time required?

Many reports have ignored this distinction and have applied the COST percentage as an equivalent TIME percentage.

(Tue May 12 1998 11:06 - ID#210235)
@Sumitomo deal means futures traders
will never know how much they manipulated copper price, who was involved.

Hush money carries a high price these days.

(Tue May 12 1998 11:08 - ID#255151)
Constitutional Law

Article II Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution provides very clearly the power and duty of Congress "to remove a President, Vice-President, or any civil officer of the United States." The procedure is very simple. It consists of impeachment by the House of Representatives, and trial and conviction by the Senate for "Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors."

(Tue May 12 1998 11:09 - ID#317193)


(Tue May 12 1998 11:13 - ID#317193)
I filled on SSRIF but not on SSC-how about you?


(Tue May 12 1998 11:15 - ID#373284)
worth the bandwidth
The New World Odor

There's an Evil Empire emerging on the world scene much more insidious than the old Soviet Union.

Back in the good old days of the Cold War, most freedom-loving people understood what they were up against. Communism killed. Americans had national security interests to protect. The threat of nuclear war and conventional superpower clashes kept us on our toes.

When Moscow's hopeless command-and-control totalitarian system imploded, some capitalists and their useful idiots in government realized the whole world was suddenly up for grabs.

Today, international bankers and venture capitalists are calling the shots -- maximizing profits and creating a brave new world of "stability" and "interdependence."

One of these masters of the universe is William H. Draper III. He made his fortune as a founding partner of Sutter Hill Ventures in the Silicon Valley. In 1980, President George Bush named him chairman of the Export/Import Bank in Washington. Later, George Shultz recommended him to become president of the U.N.'s Development Bank, where, according to one recent interviewer, "he spent his days passing out billions of dollars in assistance to help developing nations build their industrial infrastructure."

Now he has a new fund, Draper International, which invests in entrepreneurs in India and the subcontinent.

Writes Tony Perkins in a recent issue of Red Herring, a journal about investment: "I'll never forget how his son Tim, who started his own VC fund in the mid-1980s, responded when his dad hung out his new shingle: 'OK, Dad, you can have the rest of the world; I just want Silicon Valley.'"

The senior Draper has friends in high places helping him achieve his ambitious goals of world conquest through selective capital investment. During U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan's recent swing through the West, Draper helped set up his Northern California agenda. including an interview with Perkins.

Why would a venture capitalist like Draper be selected to establish Annan's itinerary? The figurehead of the New World Odor explains it best in his own words.

"Today, one has to accept that capitalism is not a bad thing, including those in the former Eastern Bloc," explains Annan. "Capitalism has no competition. But I have often maintained that the seed for the destruction of capitalism is within itself. It is a system that has to be developed with equity."

And what exactly does that mean?

"We need to broaden our definition of human security," he continues. "We used to think of security as absence of war. Now we must define it to include economic well-being. Leaders must focus on this idea, because market forces alone can not deliver parity."

So how will the New World Odor accomplish this end?

"We do quite a lot of infrastructure building," he explains. "We try to work with governments to introduce them to and assist them with technology development. That's the role Bill Draper used to play when he ran the Development Bank. The World Bank is also playing an increasingly important role in encouraging Third World governments to build out their networks, and invest in technology."

To translate this international bureaucratic jargon into plain English, the big plan involves the transfer of wealth from the productive sectors of the world to the unproductive. It's a grand wealth redistribution scheme -- much bigger and ultimately more dangerous than anything ever conceived of by Karl Marx.

It's welfare on a grand new universal plateau.

The managers of it are people we seldom hear about or read about -- people like Bill Draper. They work in and around agencies like the World Bank, the U.N., the International Monetary Fund, etc., etc. They're taking the failed policies of national socialism and applying them to a new international order -- all in the name of "capitalism."

Kofi Annan is right about one thing. The seeds of capitalism's destruction are found within. But the balance to be struck has nothing to do with "equity" or "parity." It has to do with personal morality and individual freedom. And those are two words we seldom hear from the New World Odor crowd. I wonder why?

There's a more accurate term than "capitalism" for this onerous trend. What's the word for a system in which special favors are doled out to businesses by government authorities? What's the word that means private economic enterprise under centralized control? What do you call it when a small, arrogant, all-knowing elite override the popular will? What's the system under which stability supersedes freedom and morality? The word is "fascism."

Joseph Farah is editor of the Internet newspaper and executive director of the Western Journalism Center, an independent group of investigative reporters.

(Tue May 12 1998 11:17 - ID#280215)
Snowbird and APH RE: Trading Psychology
I was skimming yesterdays afternoon posts and noted your posts regarding trading psychology. IMHO, I recommend that you read "Trading For A Living" by Dr. Alexander Elder. He's a technical analyst who also was a psychologist to start out. His first few chapters explain the pschology of trading ( ie.. what both the seller and buyer are thinking ) . For both technical and fundamental traders, these first few chapters are a must read.

For technical traders, the rest of the book explains how to calculate ( with examples ) all of the technical indicators such as MACD and Stochastics, and Open Interest studies. What he does though that noone else who puts out these technical indicator books does, is explain the psychology of stochastics, for example, and what it means. Many here will chastise technicians for all of their math mumbo jumbo etc... But he explains the psychology of what the numbers mean in terms of market sentiment.

Basically you realize that all of these oscillators and indicators that are based on price movements, are actually measurements of market sentiment and not just trend analysis of prices. It definitely makes studies of Open Interest, for example, much easier to understand eg.. "what does it reallly mean when open interest is rising and prices are falling etc.. ) . Again, FWIW, I recommend it especially for technical based traders.

(Tue May 12 1998 11:19 - ID#269409)
@ LOR (Loral) discussion, China
As an "insider" of the company in question, my own opinion is that the issue has been somewhat overblown. My company was using launch facilities ( and vehicles...the Long March rocket ) in China due to a worldwide shortage of such facilities and a very crowded launch schedule.

All the other big satellite manufacturers are doing the same thing. Hughes, Lockheed/Martin, etc. We've had 2 launch failures in China, and it's quite a sight when a $500,000 satellite is bouncing along through villages due to technology problems with the Chinese guidance system...soooo....both our company and Hughes, provided some assistance on the Gyro mechanisms. Self interest of course, as we didn't want more of these things falling out of the sky.

Was it a good plan? In my personal opinion, no. It'd be better if the U.S. Govt. and the major Comm. sattelite manufacturers made a pact to ramp up facilities here in the U.S. and eschew giving away this important capability. The world won't ALWAYS be as peaceful a place as it is now. ( If you can even call it that with dozens of skirmishes going on daily )

All that said though, I must, with great embarrasment for my CEO, admit that he was the single LARGEST contributor to the Clinton campaign for Prez. yo can see why the slippery sleazy one allowed this to happen. Personally, I feel so unhappy about that particular fact, that I'm considering bailing for other pastures. However, the lower level management, is excellent, as is the company structure overall.

Certainly the stock has made many of us several hundred percent since our original option to buy at $7.00 per share. ( I sunk my entire 401 K plan into it at the time ) what to do. I think I'll send the resume to Boeing and Lockheed........but then, they'll probably just sell some other critical technologies to the Russkies......

(Tue May 12 1998 11:26 - ID#269409)
Nope, didn't get my order filled for SSC..still trying though!

( Hey , you SURE about that NAB thing??! )

(Tue May 12 1998 11:27 - ID#188244)
Forgive me, I know this has been asked countless times,
but could someone help me out with my quest to join Mr. Buffet in the silver market. I've seen SSC discussed here as a call on silver, but I'd like to take some physical as well. For a small position, say $3,000 or so, should I go silver clad, 90% coins, or bars? Any recommendations on through whom I should transact are appreciated as well.

(Tue May 12 1998 11:32 - ID#212197)
@geoffs: Who is Nick Gaurino mentioned by USAGOLD???????
Your 10:47
Nick Gaurino writes a financial newsletter which he calls

It's quite interesting.
Try to get a free trial:


(Tue May 12 1998 11:36 - ID#373284)
WSF - I say that junk dimes are the best way to buy physical silver. If you
would like to speak with someone who can help you - 800-593-2585 and ask for Russ Savage - tell him Kevan told you to call.

As far as silver stocks go I say Pan Am Silver PAASF is the number one silver stock on the planet. If you want more leverage First Silver Reserve - FSR


(Tue May 12 1998 11:38 - ID#269409)
Trimming the Hedge (for now...)

Tuesday May 12, 9:20 am Eastern Time

Company Press Release

London Study Expects Slow-Down In Short-Term
Forward Gold Sales

Long-Term Growth To Continue

NEW YORK-- ( BUSINESS WIRE ) --May 12, 1998--A further expansion of the market for
gold loans and other hedging devices is unlikely in the short term, it is claimed in a new
study of the gold market published today in London.

But, hedging and forward gold sales have become such a major element of the gold market
that, over the long term, the volume of gold traded in this way can be expected to increase,
it is said by two leading observers of the gold industry who conducted research at the
request of the World Gold Council into recent developments in the gold banking and
derivative markets.

Mr. Ian Cox, a former head of precious metals trading at Samuel Montagu, the London
based investment bankers, and Mr. Ian Emsley, an economist and commodity analyst with
Anglo American Corporation, have completed a new in-depth study of the impact of the
increasing use being made of gold loans and sophisticated hedging techniques by the gold
mining industry. Their report Utilisation of borrowed gold by the mining industry - its
development and future prospects shows that hedging activities by miners have risen
five-fold over the last decade.

This has been made possible by the increasing readiness of central banks to lend gold from
their reserves to provide the liquidity for the funding of hedge transactions. In the last ten
years central bank lending has risen from about 400 tonnes a year to around 4,000 tonnes
a year today. Around 65% of all gold borrowing - between 2,550 and 2,650 tonnes - is
represented by mine hedging activities.

There was a steady increase in hedging during the past ten years but it reached a peak late
in 1997 and early this year. According to the report...``The gradual realisation that,
through a combination of market factors gold prices were on an extended downward path,
led to an accelerating pace in hedging activity as the year progressed. In total an estimated
500 tonnes of additional market supply resulted.''

But this scale of activity is not likely to be repeated in the short-term as restructuring of
some hedge positions and the likelihood of delays and reductions in the volume of new
gold mining projects - which would have initiated new hedge programs - will reduce the
sum total of gold borrowing.

The report went on to say...``Currently, the volume hedged in relation to ( the industry's )
annual output represents little more than one year's production, averaged across the
market worldwide.''

Longer term, however, the situation could be different as the development of low-cost
gold projects will bring new volumes of hedging to the market at lower prices than are
currently acceptable. Critics of the mining companies' hedging practices may be mollified
by other findings of the study which suggest that while the combined effect over the
decade of the expansion of producer hedging may have contributed to the downward trend
in prices, the actions of the individual mining companies have only a marginal influence on
the market, given its current size.

Again, according to the report...``The significance of 'accelerated selling' cannot be
entirely discounted, but it needs to be placed in the context of a dynamic market in which a
number of participants, including investors, speculators and central banks may equally act
as sellers at a given time or price.''

The authors conclude there are justifiable grounds for individual companies to take a
pragmatic approach and give primary consideration to the profitable management of their
operations through appropriate use of the forward markets, and that despite the misgivings
of some there is ``a growing consensus'' in the gold industry in favor of price hedging and
that differences of opinion they say now centers on the amount of future production which
it is appropriate to hedge and the hedging strategies employed.

The World Gold Council is an international organization formed and funded by leading
gold mining companies from around the world to increase the demand for gold. The
countries served by the Council account for approximately 80% of global gold demand.

(Tue May 12 1998 11:54 - ID#26793)
I was being a bit of a wise guy but producers like Venezuela and Mexico say they are making their information public. I posted the other day that Kuwait had a secret session of parliment over oil price issues. Problems with Russia are well known so it is difficult for me to see Russia, Mexico and Venezuela keep cutback programs. I raised the issue of reduced demand in Asia once with ANOTHER. He responded in a way that I read as he does not think it is a problem. I disagree. Korea is the best example. I posted an article shortly after their collapse that they could not get letters of credit to make oil purchases. This mess is starting to hurt and I still read it as deflationary.

(Tue May 12 1998 11:55 - ID#317193)
Of course I'm NOT sure. Sold all my individual gold mining shares last week. Plan to buy back in the next few weeks when the RSA shares go down.

My cash is waiting for $295 spot gold and a drop in the gold shares. Gold is manipulated down and up. Go with the flow. I think the market is NAB and this will be borne out after FND to LTD on the June contract. Time will tell.


(Tue May 12 1998 11:56 - ID#269409)
First Euro coins.... Ohhhmmmm...doom for the dollar? nah!
May 12,
President Clinton and President Yeltsin are preparing for meetings next week in England where they
will attend the Group of Eight Summit of industrial powers. The last Russian-U.S. summit was held last
year in Helsinki, Finland. According to a Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman, "The main themes are
the traditional matters in Russian-U.S. dialogue. They include cooperation in preventing the arms
race, non-prolifertion and all the political issues that could be discussed at the Birmingham summit and
a separate meeting between the Russian and U.S. presidents." The G-8 summit from May 15-17
brings together the leaders from Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, and the U.S.

May 11,
France became the first nation of the 11 EU members participating in the making of the common
currency called the "euro" to acutally produce the money today by minting the first coin today. The
first coin will be a limited series with mass distribution due later. The official launch of Europe's
single currency, which many believe will rival the U.S. dollar as the global currency standard, is not
scheduled to begin until Jan. 1, 1999.

(Tue May 12 1998 11:58 - ID#340459)
Perhaps, Nobody wants gold except us..
Who is smarter Us or them ?

(Tue May 12 1998 11:58 - ID#317193)
Of course I'm NOT sure. Sold all my individual gold mining shares last week. Plan to buy back in the next few weeks when the RSA shares go down.

My cash is waiting for $295 spot gold and a drop in the gold shares. Gold is manipulated down and up. Go with the flow. I think the market is NAB and this will be borne out after FND to LTD on the June contract. Time will tell.


(Tue May 12 1998 12:05 - ID#269409)
Numismatic Editorial
It's been said here before, it'll be said here again. But as a part time coin dealer / Numismatist, let me just say...the market for Numismatic coins is HOTTER than it's been in a decade! Following is further comment from the editors of the "Greysheet"... the Bid/Ask industry price guide for raw Numismatic US coins.

he Market in Depth



The bull rare coin market of 1998 continues to attract strong Bids from dealers. The activity is greatest for Dollars, Gold and
"interesting" coins of all series and denominations. Coins that have low-population numbers are attracting strong demand. The
same is true for coins that have exceptional eye appeal. Also, strength has become evident for common dates of many
series. Generic Morgan and Peace Dollar increases have occurred. Dealers are buying those coins for their customer want lists
as well as for their inventory. The need for fresh material is always evident but exacerbated during times when the market is
hot. This is because the demand for coins that contains all these highly sought-after attributes is exceeding the current available
supply. As collectors or investors take coins off the market for an indeterminable amount of time, the available supply of
quality, rare and interesting coins decrease. This pressure may result in an immediate increase in coin prices and possibly
future increases. Dealers are facing a similar situation at current price levels.

(Tue May 12 1998 12:11 - ID#210235)
I second T1's recommendation. The pre 1964 silver is the handiest way to hold physical. Why carry the extra weight, and use up extra storage space that clad coins require? I've been advised to avoid the bars because they are less likely to find a market if you want to move them. The old silver coins have a perennial appeal, are recognized by all, their content won't be questioned. And they're a bargain right now. What's not to like?

As to a dealer, it's a good idea to cultivate a face-to-face relationship with a local dealer if you can find one. The two in our valley have closed their doors due to the big slump. I enjoyed going in and seeing the many foreigners doing here as they did at home, trading paper for silver and gold. ( Too bad so many Americans don't protect themselves. ) I now use Jefferson Coin and Bullion, mail order, with the caveat that I didn't do comparison shopping due to limited time. Just wanted one I could trust. Pick up a current issue of Coin World.

(Tue May 12 1998 12:15 - ID#269409)
Add Platinum to the list....of Hot Numismatics
From a personal perspective.... As a dealer I purchased over 300 of the 1997 U.S. PLatinum PROOF American Eagles last July. Bought them directly from the U.S. mint, as any individual could have done at the time.

Forward to early 98. All these PLatinum Proofs have now been sold to collectors at anywhere from 30% to 40% higher than I paid, AND they continue to escalate in value. The One Oz. for example, is selling for approx. $995.00 whereas the U.S. mint price was $699.00

These coins started "slow" but have really picked up steam. Even the "bullion" 1997 Platinum's have done very well, due to low mintage's, yes, but also due to high interest in Platinum investment, ( and the beauty of the coin itself.. )

I've also seen very strong interest in Gold "St. Gaudens" ( which I'm having trouble keeping in stock ) , and even modern Gold Proofs. I don't deal in bullion coins, but I know many who do and their business is WAY up. Same for generic common date numismatic silver. Morgans, Walking Halves, Mercury dimes, etc. Market heating up fast..I expect it to go much higher as it has in previous bull runs......maybe without the crushing collpase afterwards this time around. After all, "they aren't minting any more of these"

( None of the above is a solicitation of fact I have more than I can handle now with present customer base.... )

(Tue May 12 1998 12:16 - ID#317193)
I'm buying physical gold and silver such as CEF in my retirement account. One reason I'm bullish on gold-after the next few weeks-is the level of coin sales. People are moving out of paper and into hard and safe assets. Gold and silver sound familiar.Yes?


(Tue May 12 1998 12:21 - ID#177146)
@John Disney
John, I can't get anyone on this forum to give me an udate on Randgold. Would you please take a minute and fill me in on any new info on Rangy. I have been traveling for the last six weeks and totally out of touch. When arriving home I noticed my RANGY stock was down about 20% since we departed while Harmony and others had good moves up. Whats up??? Tom

(Tue May 12 1998 12:23 - ID#269409)
Wise planning and similar to my own strategy. I don't own any Gold shares ( or broad market shares ) at the moment, but have put most of my 401K into cash, and most discretionary retirement funds into physical silver, mostly in the form of semi Numismatic bags of coin, and 100 Oz. bars.

I'm going to start accumulating more "Saints" also, if I can somehow talk my customer base into not buying them all out from under me! ( I keep some of the really nice pieces....advantage of being a dealer I guess )

(Tue May 12 1998 12:24 - ID#348286)
@LGB - Collectibles
Interesting that so many are after coins. I can just imagine that if we can get out of this PM's rutt that we've been in for years, what it will do for the PM coin market. I know that the sports card market has not recovered from the crash a few years back. Not all collectibles are sought after.
Does the base metal content have anything to do with it ???

(Tue May 12 1998 12:24 - ID#25171)
It is clear that for those of us who play the GOLD market from a long position and don't try to benefit from short term moves- ( of course it might be different for other financial markets but GOLD holding is for some of us a philosophical statement, even a way of life which appeals to our contrarian/realistic nature and for which we paid dearly in the last "few " years ) - we would love to see GOLD go up and anything which goes in its way is dreaded.

Gold hedging by producers is definetely a cause for concern.But is it really? Unless you hold short term positions and you want to time the market, I think GOLD hedging impact will only last untill the credit rating of hedgers don't allow them to increase anymore the average number of years of production covered by theyr industry.GOLD producers are considered a big credit risk on bank's loan portfolios in comparison to standard businesses even though banks are on a lending spree.

The lax lending conditions are climaxing due to a huge flow of short term liquidities.In addition to that, the amount of GOLD avalaible for REPO is also at a high ( as GERMANY and SWITZERLAND joined the market recently ) and are also likely to be reduced with the introduction of the ECB.

The miners can't increase the number of years of production hedged indefinetely and some are sometime tempted to reduce their shorts.

The combination of these factors:

1 ) Lax lending conditions

2 ) avalaibility of REPO GOLD

3 ) increased duration of hedge portfolio

+ 4 ) unprecedented short speculation and anticipation of CB selling have brought the POG to an uneconomical level which will be corrected by the law of supply and demand . Hopefully , the general public will become aware of GOLD's real value if stock markets collapse and fiat currencies disappear.

IMHO GOLD has bottomed in early january.Wealthy investors ahead of the masses are already accumulating.A lot of bad weather looms on the horizon.If you buy for the long term this might be the last opportunity to buy more between 290 and 300.


(Tue May 12 1998 12:24 - ID#257136)
HUMOR!!! Lifted from a Political Forum in Arkansas. Proves we do have a sense of humor!
As further proof, didn't we send you the coward erectus, also?
Guess the joke's on us from that one!

Posted by Gary - on Tuesday, 12 May 1998, at 8:56 a.m.

Louisiana: A man walked into a Circle-K, put a $20 bill on the counter and asked for change.
When the clerk opened the cash drawer, the man pulled a gun and asked for all the cash in the
register, which the clerk promptly provided. The man took the cash from the clerk and fled, leaving
the $20 bill on the counter. The total amount of cash he got from the drawer? Fifteen dollars. [If
someone points a gun at you and gives you money, was a crime committed?]

Florida: [Uh, pardon our English] A thief burst into the bank one day wearing a ski mask and
carrying a gun. Aiming his gun at the guard, the thief yelled, "FREEZE, MOTHER-STICKERS,
THIS IS A FxxK-UP!" For a moment, everyone was silent. Then the snickers started. The guard
completely lost it and doubled over laughing. It probably saved his life, because he'd been about to
draw his gun. He couldn't have drawn and fired before the thief got him. The thief ran away and is
still at large. In memory of the event, the bank later put a plaque on the wall engraved "Freeze,
mother-stickers, this is a fxxk-up!"

(Tue May 12 1998 12:25 - ID#269409)
Gold "in love" with $300 ( ASB )
Or should I say, as they comment below "loyal to a $297.80 to $302 range"

Tuesday May 12, 10:56 am Eastern Time

NY precious metals mixed early, palladium higher

NEW YORK, May 12 ( Reuters ) - COMEX and NYMEX precious metals futures were
mixed early Tuesday, with palladium getting another pop courtesy of dealer buying
overnight in London followed by commission house buying here.

The rise occurred against the backdrop of continued uncertainty regarding when exports
of Russian supplies to Japan will be approved by the Russian government. Such
uncertainties have underpinned prices since the year began.

At 1030 EDT, NYMEX June palladium was at $317.00 an ounce, up $15.40, traded
$306.60 to $320.00.

``There's nothing new in the market fundamentally,'' said one floor trader. ``Are the
Russians shipping palladium or aren't they? It's the same story. Dealers were buyers early
along with some of the commission houses.''

The June-Spetember backwardation, which had narrowed by $22.50 to $18 between May 5
and May 8, has now reversed its course, widening to $29 Tuesday.

``It caught us a little off-guard, because we saw some good lending in the market last
week,'' another floor trader said. ``But the widening spread tends to underpin the market.
So we're thinking it's got higher to go.''

COMEX June gold was $299.80 an ounce, down $1.40 from Monday's close, trading
between $299.50 and $301.90 an ounce.

In the bullion market, spot gold was $298.40/90 an ounce, compared with the late London
fix, which was $299.35 an ounce, and Monday's New York close, which was $300.10/60
an ounce.

World Gold Council issued a report Tuesday that predicted that gold borrowing from
central banks to fund producer hedging would tail off in the short-term as a result of the
low bullion price.

In the longer term, however, hedging could increase as producers seek to lock in prices
amid uncertainties over official sector sales.

The June market is remaining loyal to the $297.80-$302.00 range that's been in place for
the previous three trading days.

(Tue May 12 1998 12:29 - ID#348286)
@Message For European Leaders
Too Hell with you if you can't decide on how much ECB Gold to hold. Get with it idiots.....

(Tue May 12 1998 12:29 - ID#269409)
Yes..the base metal is indeed having an influence. The older copper, and nickel series, etc. in Numismatics, are not doing nearly as well as the rapidly heating Silver and Gold coin market.

AS to collectibles....well they come and go.....Beanie babies could have made your fortune but will no doubt be one of the "bubbles" that collapses as interest wanes. In precious metal Numismatics, we'll always see a comeback and higher prices if we are patient through the tough times.

(Tue May 12 1998 12:29 - ID#269409)
Yes..the base metal is indeed having an influence. The older copper, and nickel series, etc. in Numismatics, are not doing nearly as well as the rapidly heating Silver and Gold coin market.

AS to collectibles....well they come and go.....Beanie babies could have made your fortune but will no doubt be one of the "bubbles" that collapses as interest wanes. In precious metal Numismatics, we'll always see a comeback and higher prices if we are patient through the tough times.

(Tue May 12 1998 12:32 - ID#345176)
RYO in the black this quarter

(Tue May 12 1998 12:32 - ID#31868)
an interesting link for all

(Tue May 12 1998 12:38 - ID#410114)
Oldman Long?
Is Oldman long the SP500's now?

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 12:47 - ID#24135)
For tsclaw
Re your repeated question..
This has been discussed many times
ad nauseam .. Suggest you peruse the
past discussions .. Im sorry but I'm
sick of talking about it

Barb Hughes
(Tue May 12 1998 12:49 - ID#20782)
Article of interest in June "Coinage" pg 18.
Take care all...

(Tue May 12 1998 12:57 - ID#220325)
Straddler Thank you for your helpful response
The book sounds great and I will search it out. We need more participants like you, keep it up!

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 12:59 - ID#24135)
Little Gritty's Silver Call
to all little gritty fans....
Now I see that Little Gritty Bumbum
is in CASH .. but I remember he said
he was "going out on a limb" and
buying SILVER ( which had a big buy
order at 5.75 only where was it ?? )
... Could it be that little Gritty
makes it all up as he goes along ??
Gee that silver call should go down
in the old kitco history book .. as
the WORST CALL EVER MADE and by the
guy with the clearest most open mind
in the world !! How can it happen ??
Tell me all about it !!

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 13:04 - ID#24135)
Little gritty's silver call
to all little gritty fans....
Now I see that Little Gritty Bumbum
is in CASH .. but I remember he said
he was "going out on a limb" and
buying SILVER ( which had a big buy
order at 5.75 only where was it ?? )
... Could it be that little Gritty
makes it all up as he goes along ??
Gee that silver call should go down
in the old kitco history book .. as
the WORST CALL EVER MADE and by the
guy with the clearest most open mind
in the world !! How can it happen ??
Tell me all about it !!
This is NOT a personal attack. We NEED
little gritty on this site. I know we need
him .. Only Im not exactly sure why...

(Tue May 12 1998 13:06 - ID#210235)
@Moe, Aurator
Please forgive delays in Email replies. Browser finds messages on server, then loses server at reply time.

(Tue May 12 1998 13:07 - ID#316193)
What Happened in Indonesia -- Scathing Denouncement of IMF
" ...there is a genuine opportunity to drive a stake through the
heart of the Evil Empire, as I have termed the IMF since the
Cold War ended and the USSR dissolved. In many ways, the IMF
has produced more suffering, death and disease in the last 3
decades than did the Forces of Darkness it succeeded."

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 13:08 - ID#24135)
Oris where are you when we NEED you
For my brother Oris ..
There's the way things oughta be ...
and there's the way things are ...

Palladium is supposed to go DOWN and Platinum UP..
Everybody KNOWS that ..
Its logical ..
But it isnt happening like that..

(Tue May 12 1998 13:09 - ID#43460)
John Disney re Little Gritty's challenge.
Poor fellow hasn't seen my post apparantly. Either that or he just can't risk showing everyone his true colors. Perhaps, since you have a higher profile he'd be willing to take it if you pointed out that the Yahoo investment contest is a way he can show all us dopes how smart he is.

(Tue May 12 1998 13:11 - ID#317193)
: ) ,: )


Steve - Perth__A
(Tue May 12 1998 13:16 - ID#284170)
Red Ink Day
Amongst lots of other markets, Russia down 4% TODAY

(Tue May 12 1998 13:18 - ID#257136)
gagnrad-Yours of 00:23: My feelings precisely. Have felt this way for several years now.
Nothing in any of the communication media, controlled or otherwise has caused me to back off one whit in my assessment of the situation the planet and its occupants is in.
The Elitists, as typified by Mr. and Mrs. Fonda ( turner ) have been building their own little redoubts and retreats for years now.
Look at West Texas.
Colorado is saturated with private enclaves which can be defended against the "masses" very readily.
Your post clarified my stance.
I have never tried to completely explain the entire problem and its solution as I view it.
An open forum is of course available to snitch and plant or mole as well as to we who are continually thinking and hoping to come up with the perfect counter moves.
Having lost the last go-round AGAINST the federales, I am not sure just what if anything I will do next!

(Tue May 12 1998 13:20 - ID#220325)
Tolerant1 I think your idea of buying junk silver is a good if yu are preparing for all out disaste
If currencies collapse the dimes would be worth a lot of money and they would be the smallest most recognizable currency useful in exchange. My experience has been that coin silver is not the best way to make money as a speculative vehicle. In 1980-81 when silver jumped to about $48.00 per ounce was as follows. I had bought Cdn silver dollars ( 80% silver ) at under $4.00 but when I tried to sell them to the local coin dealers they would not buy them at the approximate pure silver value of $40. They offered me $9.00 only. Refiners were hard to come by and costly in terms of shipping, insurance and refining fees. The price of silver was moving so fast that the shipping delay was out of the question. I hope this helps you define your objectives.

(Tue May 12 1998 13:22 - ID#408147)
ts: Don't get hung up the the prices. There is a HUGE Bid/Ask spread on RANGY adrs, so if RANGY closes at the end of the day with a trade buy at the ASK and then the next day closes with a trade sell at the would look like a loss of 10-20%. Use Yahoo quotes and compare the BID ( sell ) prices over time. You will see a less volatile picture of what your RANGY is worth. Also, never expect to sell your RANGY at the ( higher ) ASK price. RANGY will likely move in 1/8 jumps when things start going positive -- otherwise, it will move in the 1/32-1/16 range.
If POG falls no further, RANGY should hold above $1. If you have no patience or nerves, it's best to get out now...

(Tue May 12 1998 13:24 - ID#257136)
John Disney re: li'l gritty bumbum.
I like your appellation better than the little garrulous boy I have been using.
Too bad his boss doesn't monitor his production at work, as it seems he spends a lot of the time he is at the "office" on the net.
More of his posts have a time related to PST working hours than to home time.
Of course, given the brilliance of subject, the boss probably encourages him!
( 8+^} ) [

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 13:25 - ID#24135)
Wanniski is quite a guy
for Leland
His review of the IMF should be
Kitco required reading..
His list of movies isnt bad either.

(Tue May 12 1998 13:26 - ID#31868)
snowbird - I agree that silver dimes are not the best way to make a speculative
purchase. On the other hand I feel that they are the single best method of buying physical silver for the small investor.

I currently own FSR and CFB in large quantities and those are my speculative bets on silver.

Everything else is in very high grade morgans and bags of dimes.

(Tue May 12 1998 13:27 - ID#43460)
A.J. I'm reminded of a quote from one of the great allegorical novels of all time
From the "Tales of Uncle Remus" by Joel Chandler Harris, when confronted by the vastly superior strength of B'rer Bear and B'rer Fox, do you recall what B'rer Rabbit did? "B'rer Rabbit, he lay low and say nuthin'".

(Tue May 12 1998 13:30 - ID#269409)
@ DissPee..Silver & Cash
Well of course even a cursory reading of the two posts reveals that I said I had my 401 K money in cash, and my discretionary investment funds in silver, as anyone with the slightest reading comprehension ability is aware.

As to my silver call, it's meant to be long term, as I'm in the market long term , and the market will bear me out long term. At the moment, the silver I do hold is quite substantially in the "gain" territory, and I did indeed publicly post here when I bought the stuff , for anyone with more neuron functionality memory cells than you posess, ( last July and August )

I ignored your continued obsession with me earlier today DissPee, but you are becoming a bore. Were you an abused child?.

(Tue May 12 1998 13:37 - ID#170211)
delta method ?
Hello all,have been lurking here for a month now.Does anyone apply the delta method to gold and silver?If you would be interested in comparing notes.Please e-mail me at

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 13:38 - ID#24135)
Another way to look at it
for aj
Maybe his boss figures that if he's
on the internet during working hours
then he cant do any meaningful damage
to the business........

only kidding little gritty

(Tue May 12 1998 13:38 - ID#269409)
@ DissPee...I got it now...small man syndrome or cowardice?
Ummm, I understand I think. I have the latest volume of the DSM here and it cealrly shows you have all the symptoms of "Small man syndrome". Is it true you use a magnifying glass and tweezers when you go to the restroom?

I hate to be puerile, but since igoring you doesn't help, and appealing to you to cease and desist the best interest of the forum doesn't help, I guess I'll have to give in to your obsession with me, and respond in kind Disssss.

However, you still havn't responded to my inquiry yesterday as to when you're going to share your expertise in the subject matter that precipatated your unprovoked and unsolicited "insult" posts my way. So are you ready to compare resume's, goals, credentials, and accomplishments in the area in question and try civil debate on the topic, or are you truely as cowardly yellow as I think you are?

After all, when confronted with issues of science and medicine, you take a contrary view by making "insults"....yet post not one word on that subject matter. In my book, that's a tactic of the lowest form of coward ( well to be fair...also a tactic of certain Clinton administration officials, as well as the top dog himself )

(Tue May 12 1998 13:42 - ID#269409)
@ DissPee....this just in
Oops, mu apologies. I have insider info. as to why you have been feeling so obsessive lately. Apparently you have been having a major "backup" problem, and I don't mean with your harddrive.

Let me give you an excellent prescription. ( In spite of the fact you don;t believe in modern medicine ) . We have this new wonder drug here in the States. It's called "Viagra"....For a few thousand shares of DROOY, or a few hundred of those "Rands" I'll access the black market and send you some. It'll help you with your little "problem" and you won't feel nearly as frustrated.

(Tue May 12 1998 13:42 - ID#376309)
The 200 Day Moving Average of Spot Silver is at 5.58. I took profits on my short silver position at 5.60 and it looks like I did so too soon. A clear break of 5.58 would NOT be good. Right now we are simply in a pull-back but a weekly closing below the 200 dma would get me too reshort the metal with targets much lower. Again, we are only pulling back right now and I do not consider an intra day move of $0.05 a clear break of the 200 DMA.

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 13:43 - ID#24135)
God you can write !!
for Little Gritty ...
you wrote "... as anyone with the slightest reading
comprehension ability is aware. "
God that was good .. I feel somehow I've come close to

(Tue May 12 1998 13:44 - ID#269409)
@ DissPee
Almost forgot..for that "Small man syndrome" you might try a large, Ford Bronco, 4WD Pickup, with glass pack exhaust, raised way up off the road. Works wonders for the small peniled types here in the states.

(Tue May 12 1998 13:46 - ID#269409)
CLose but not touching
re "Close to greatness" ....Close is the best you'll ever doo DissPee, keep obsessing over me though, you certainly have been for the past few days. Are you enjoying the attention now and the disruption to the forum? I hope so as I surely aim to please

Cage Rattler
(Tue May 12 1998 13:50 - ID#33184)
@JohnDisney, @LGB, @a.j., etc. etc.
Why don't you all rather use ICQ or IRC or something else for your attacks on one another?

When you post valuable information relating to GOLD, EMU, etc. I always read everything avidly and appreciate your efforts. But when you consume the forum for personal attacks it takes something away from the rest of us since we have scroll up and down a lot just to jump over these off-the-topic posts!

Best regards

(Tue May 12 1998 13:51 - ID#269409)
@ DissPee....Alternative medicine
Since you eschew modern medicine and all, we have an excellent practicioner of "Alternative" medicine her ein the states that could help you with ALL your problems Diss...he's even credentialed. His name is Dr. Jack Kervorkian.

(Tue May 12 1998 13:53 - ID#410198)
Once again a heads up to all gold/silver buyers,spot price has nothing to do with what suppliers
charge in a fast market,in the real world if say ( please God ) gold goes limit $25.00 from say $300.00 to $325.00 there is no where on gods earth you are going to get physical Eagels for say $345.00 the premium will double,so buy now in a down market, when the GDP ( generally dumb public ) wake up it will be to late the same goes for all metals

(Tue May 12 1998 13:55 - ID#342315)
gangrad re Uncle Remus
You got that right. If you don't the tales of Uncle Remus, you are lost in the woods. Br'er Rabbit also said" through my in the briar patch". I guess you know this.

(Tue May 12 1998 13:56 - ID#269409)
@ Cage Rattler...I'm all for it
I's love to get back on topic Cage, but DissPee refuses, no matter how many times I entreat him. I tried ignoring his couple dozen unsolicited, off topic, unprovoked, "attack" posts last Friday. Then I tried imploring him to get back to that very NARROW area in which he has knowledge....SA Mining shares, and the subtleties of world economics....again to no avail.

I again tried ignoring him today and over the weekend. No joy. The man is absolutely obsessed with me, and won't be able to sleep till I send some "like kind" posts his way apparently. So in a moment of weakness, I'm giving in.

(Tue May 12 1998 13:56 - ID#433172)
No specific relationship to Captain Sheffield as far as I know. Several pre-revolutionary war captains in the family, mostly killed by the American Navy. Of course a generic relationship probably not going back more than 15 generations would exsist.
I worked on the " Dora Mae", close enough?
I didn't know the stars were for sale, sounds like some of those Canadian jrs I bought into. We will not get to the stars, even the planets, unless we take much better care of mother earth. Man takes, takes,takes, seems normal, natural and satisfiying. Like being on the tit. Were coszied up to nature with our eyes shut sucking gold, oil, wood everything, and having a good ole time with 8 cyl cars, huge houses and a me first mentality, just like most children. We are already at a convient distance from sol, and the benefits are FREE. I love Free stuff. Er, some free stuff.

(Tue May 12 1998 13:59 - ID#246224)
I think we're scratchin' that low figure just now. Hope we 'rise above it'!

(Tue May 12 1998 14:00 - ID#269409)
@ here's a novel idea
If you're quite through with the foodfight Diss, I'd dearly love to get back to the Gold and SIlver subjects, for which the forum is designed. Not that I mind your attack posts ( though you REALLY need to get a better writer for your comedy stuff... )

But in deference to Bart , the forum, and the other participants, ( and my own developing boredom with you ) I hope that you've had your fill for the day of mud slinging exchanges, and can now, somehow find it in yourself, to relinquish your obsession with me and return to more interesting Gold and Silver......

(Tue May 12 1998 14:00 - ID#43460)
Cage Rattler perhaps you can convince LGB to prove how bright he is
by publically entering the Yahoo investment contest?

(Tue May 12 1998 14:04 - ID#246224)
Bully Ragging of LGB
John Disney fighting fire with ..? Not helping the bandwidth problem gents. There is no way you are going to 'right wrongs' by these attacks and provocations. More to matters at hand; did you choose door number three?

(Tue May 12 1998 14:05 - ID#269409)
I'm all for the Yahoo contest....IF, you will organize a large group of Kitcoites that will also participate, it'd be fun for all yes? We could wager a case of Sam Adams on the outcome.

(Tue May 12 1998 14:09 - ID#269409)
@ with
You know I respect you Allen but you have it backwards. It was the Dizzy that began this with his MANY unprovoked, and unsolicited, bandwidth wasting "insult" commenst directed my way last Friday, and continuing on to today. Mind you I, I directed not a single post his way before he started his current stream of fun.

And all attempts to ignore him, or entreat him back on topic have failed. Thus, finally I resort to the schoolboy peurality he so craves. I would indeed love to get back to business...but the guy is really obsessed I tell ya! Apparently he has a "school boy crush" but I hope he gets over it soon....I agree the forum's precious space is being wasted.

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 14:09 - ID#24135)
OK Cage Rattler
My "attack" on little grotty was
prompted by his attack on another
poster .. Mozel in this case.
I suggest when the little dork
attacks and insults OTHERS YOU
take some action yourself.
He doesnt bother me since I regard
him as an inconsequential pompous boor
and ignore him for the most part.
So I turn the job of keeping little
grotty from offending others over to
YOU. Lets see how you handle it.
And on the silver call .. I understand
now . He planned it that way .. He
knew silver would fall to 5.5 when
he bought at 6 ... how fiendishly
clever.. and kind of self sacrificing.

(Tue May 12 1998 14:12 - ID#269409)
@ Unilateral accords
I almost read into his latest post that he's going to cease and desist. Excellent! If this is the case, than the forum will have to endure no more bandwidth wasting from this quarter.

Now if only India would quit with that atomic testing and the Israeli / Palestian issue can get resolved.

(Tue May 12 1998 14:17 - ID#246224)
Looks like another fund dumped silver
Down in a big way. Time to buy the physical while the paper market is low. The last time this dropped in such a way D.A. said a fund dumped 10's of millions of ounces. Will more funds pile into this down trend ( shorting silver ) ? Its all paper anyway. And who will buy?

BTW Warren Buffett went for the physical not paper. He used paper to take delivery. Appearantly the London market just returned to 5 day settlement in the physical market, so I think he ( WB ) finally has his silver ( the remaining 35 Mln Oz ) . As the paper price dips lower can anyone doubt that he will accumulate his stated goal of 200 Mln oz total? A shrewd man in many ways. He studied this market for 30 years before commiting himself to it. And when he did it was in the physical not paper. He knows how this market works in the short and long term and he is playing it like a fiddle.

His very positive comments on silver in the recent BuffettFest underscore his deliberate methodical approach. More Buffett news in the months ahead.

(Tue May 12 1998 14:18 - ID#153102)
@International Nazis
International National Socialists or Nazis are the architects of The New World Order. They are at present not routinely overt in the application of brute force without any pretext of legality. Covert is another matter.

(Tue May 12 1998 14:20 - ID#269409)
@ Allen...SIlver
This has to be the "buy" opportunity of the year in silver, if not the remaining remnants of the current millenium. I'll be calling Vollmer today !

(Tue May 12 1998 14:21 - ID#31868)
Allen - one of these fine kitco days I expect to silver make a $2.00 move or
better to the upside. When the sling shot effect hits silver due to large buying it will move so fast it will blind people. After that pull-back will be a grand physical purchasing window. IMVHO which is more than slightly influenced with Cuervo's finest.

(Tue May 12 1998 14:32 - ID#246224)
Yes. My point is he has been bully ragging YOU. Trying to provoke you into responding. Part of the problem is that your posts sound condescending when you disagree with others. A few here have felt it their mission, recently, to harrass you.

Needless to say that we all have our moments of hubris. Boxing is a confrontational sport, whereas Aikido is an art of letting one's opponent defeat himself ( with a little help of course ) . I think we would all do well to let those who we feel are out in left field prove the fact ( with a little help only ) . This rather than the gloves.

Remember the lessons our Master taught us.

(Tue May 12 1998 14:33 - ID#269409)
@ PSGQF up 14%
Pegasus up 14% with virtually all the otehr Gold shares taking a pounding, and POG sliding? What do the "insiders" know?

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 12 1998 14:35 - ID#384350)
Atomic Bomb Technology
This 2 part aricle extracted from Major George Jordan's Diaries exposes America's giving away of atomic bomb intelligence to the Russians so as to create the cold war.

(Tue May 12 1998 14:39 - ID#403274)
Crystal Ball - Gettin' Physical!
CB; Stopped by Heritage Rare Coins this morning and took a few PM baubles out of circulation. Got a 100 Oz Silver bar for $560 and three Krugs @ $313/ea. There was no Plat to be had ... Oh well, maybe next trip.

Thanks for the tip!

HenryD - Go Gold ( and now, Go Silver! )

(Tue May 12 1998 14:40 - ID#246224)
Tol1 & LGB
Yes! A fine buying opportunity. If only I had a few hundreds, or thousands, or millions to do so. HA! But I am spent. Hope you can avail yourselves of this excellent opportunity.

We have all been waiting so long for 'sky rocket' chart lines and yet have been disappointed in that pose .. like sailors searching for a bit of land after to many days at sea. One day it will be. Until then we endure the wavey motions made by winds upon the water.

(Tue May 12 1998 14:41 - ID#31868)
Watching paint dry is an art form. Gulp to ya!

(Tue May 12 1998 14:42 - ID#269409)
@ Allen
All your points from past two messages well taken....and...go silver!

Good ol' boy
(Tue May 12 1998 14:44 - ID#26362)
San Christobal
Just reviewed news release by Apex Silver ( SIL ) regarding San Christobal deposit in Bolivia which was discovered by a friend. It will produce 14 million ounces silver, 265 million lbs zinc and 80 million lbs lead per year from 30,000 tpd open pit with a low strip ratio. Looks like money in the bank, but in this market, no one seems to believe anything good about minerals. I have tons of ready to go projects which will produce for less than $100 per ounce and can't give them away. Bre X and the world banks have really put the skids to things.

(Tue May 12 1998 14:45 - ID#246224)
Silver close US$5.59
Just above the 200 MA of US$5.58 Watch out shorts. This is an ascending market.

Lurker 777
(Tue May 12 1998 14:49 - ID#320226)
For Gold, the May 7 spot month ( June ) intra-day low of $297.80 is critical. If Gold falls below that level in the coming week, we would have to say that the Gold Bottom signal we called on March 27 is in danger. If Gold closes in the coming week below that $US 297.80 level, the primary signal we used to call that bottom, the upside penetration of the 20-week MA, will have been negated.
We have a very tight situation here. The criteria for all the Gold bottoms documented on this page are twofold. Please keep in mind that all these charts are weekly charts. First - Gold has to break above its 20 week ( 100 day ) Moving Average. Second, the moving average itself must be increasing.
The third criteria is that once Gold gets above its MA, it must stay above it. With the MA itself now almost back to the $US 300 level, we can say that by the criteria used here to find previous market bottoms, Gold cannot dip below the $US 297.80 intra day low it set last week.
In fact, a weekly close below $US 300 in the coming week would probably put Gold below its 20 week MA. Below about $US 298, Gold would also be below the uptrend line shown on the chart.

Good ol' boy
(Tue May 12 1998 14:56 - ID#26362)
Anyone know the current price of lead and zinc

Aragorn III
(Tue May 12 1998 14:56 - ID#212323)
Gawd, this is awful... a grim day cherry-picking on Kitco!
Robnoel at 13:53 had a very good thought for everyone to consider, otherwise my basket is about empty. Must be one of those days. I don't have anything to add either...

Except maybe this... it sickens me to witness the hypocracy in this world. Case in point--Threatened and Endangered Species. Witness the EFFORT expended to protect and prolong the life of T&E species. Don't get me wrong--I think this is a noble cause when it is warranted do to a potentially vital role served by the species, but when natural selection is pulling the plug mankind is battling gravity itself.
Contrast that with with another threatened Natural selection dictates that gold is the supreme currency, yet Governments ( backed by the silence and inaction of the sheeple ) put forth tremendous effort in their struggle to vanquish this specie. Why must we battle nature so fiercely, one one hand fighting to preserve and on the other hand fighting to destroy? Take the easy path. Accept what is natural and work within reasonable parameters.

I hesitate to even post this poorly conceived rant...

(Tue May 12 1998 14:57 - ID#267344)
Was late to work today after a successful search for large quantities of silver.
For once, my timing was perfect! I had a hard time making it up the stairs - silver can really give one a great work out! Gold to silver ratio is about 1/52.
- c

(Tue May 12 1998 14:57 - ID#246224)
It would do us first worlders all good to live a while in a third world country.
like Aurophile. Then we'd know what to prepare for when things don't work out so rosily in 1999 and beyond.

When all you have is all you have. And there is no real prospect of an income, or of a market to supply things with reasonable prices, or repair parts ...

When food is scarce. And power non-existant. And 'the government' has no real power or authority in the hearts and minds.

When life will be much harder and cheaper than we are used to seeing.

Away .......... to line my nest.

(Tue May 12 1998 15:06 - ID#25171)
@ all
Where in NYC should one buy with confidence GOLD or SILVER coins and bars ?
Would be very thankful if anyone could give me an adress he already tried as until now I always bought my coins in Europe.

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 15:06 - ID#24135)
Gold silver Ratio .. new recent high!!
To all
Ratio is 53.9. From here to 60 looks easy
on a chart .. we'll see. That would put silver
at ... $5.00.
Gold is still holding on tired support
lines in currencies. Done OK with the slight
dollar firming. Hope so.. Platinum should find
support now .. maybe but stocastics look
Im now 60 % cash. Holding rangold, northam,
ddeep preferreds, some randfontein which selling
off into pretty strong market today.
Gold looks ok but the HUGE break in silver
and the weakness in platinum could spill over.
And a strong dollar could wreck everything.
Go back a month and the dmark was 1.85.
Gold at that level would be 297.6*1.775/1.85 =
286. Silver - 5.37.

(Tue May 12 1998 15:10 - ID#252127)
@ Good O'le Boy

Todays prices for London Metals in US dollars

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 15:12 - ID#24135)
Whats behind door number 3??
Allan ..
Aikido sounds nice .. but I always
thought it was for the somewhat limp
wristed ?? am I wrong ??

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 12 1998 15:12 - ID#384350)
Silver hit Buffett support?
According to the Berkshire Hathaway press release of Feb 3, 1998 their most recent purchase up to that date was on Jan 12, 1998. According to Kitco, on this famous Jan 12, the PM fix was $5.5325. You would wonder if he would add to his position at these prices, or if he has as much as he wants.

Now what was Buffett saying about inelasticity of demand?

(Tue May 12 1998 15:18 - ID#31868)
I do not purchase in NYC...and I am not familiar with dealers there.

Good ol' boy
(Tue May 12 1998 15:19 - ID#26362)
Jack. I had not looked at lead for some time. Not that it iws worth worrying about. It looks like San Christobal will have a major impact on the zinc price and just add to leads woes. I will stick with silver and gold.

(Tue May 12 1998 15:21 - ID#31868)
John Disney - good grief man,
Aikido for the limp wristed. Don't say that too loud.

(Tue May 12 1998 15:26 - ID#31868)
Sequin - come to think of it... - they have been around for a very long time and I believe them to be reputable. A suggestion.

(Tue May 12 1998 15:26 - ID#403234)
Yahoo Contest
Hey!!, even a hick from the sticks like me can play the Yahoo game.
Never had or will have a 100 grand to play the market, but this morning
I was ranked # 214 out of 11500 players and that was just with PDG, ABX, Newmont, and something else ( I forget ) . I expect to rank somewhere in the 9000 or 10000 place after today though!!!!!

(Tue May 12 1998 15:33 - ID#25171)
Appreciate the prompt answer and information and I am leaving work early to pay them a visit.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 12 1998 15:33 - ID#384350)
AllenUSA, Buffetts Goal?
Allen, When or Where did Buffett state an intention to buy 200 million ounces, or is this someone's speculation ( whose ) ?

(Tue May 12 1998 15:38 - ID#31868)
Gianni Dioro - just the other night, he stopped by to see the famed Cuervo
Central tequila home distribution system. He did spend a few private moments with the Shaman.

When he left Warren was singing My Father's Face by Leo Kottke, go figure.

(Tue May 12 1998 15:40 - ID#31868)
AragornIII - have one of your Shakesperean monkees
check your email.

(Tue May 12 1998 15:41 - ID#410198)
Sequin,after you get a price from them let me know,I'll tell you if it's a good deal or not,I'am in
the busness

(Tue May 12 1998 15:43 - ID#210235)
@India sings It's my party and I'll test if I want to,
scroll down to "You'd test too if it happened to you."

(Tue May 12 1998 15:44 - ID#25171)
@ robnoel will do thanks. going now

(Tue May 12 1998 15:45 - ID#269409)
Why Platinum? Oldie but Goodie
Rather lengthy but good refresher from IPM as to why Platinum can add some excellent diversity to the PM mix. With the whites taking a NASTY beating today, I bought a few 98 plat. Eagles, along with a few bags of Silver ( Walkers & Mercs.....I highly recommend at today's incredibly bargain! )

A Hedge Within a Hedge

Platinum is called a hedge within a hedge expressly because it behaves differently from gold. There are six reasons for this,
and this distinction offers investors interesting possibilities. The rationale for comparing platinum and gold lies in the fact that
most people tend to invest in gold before buying into the other precious metals.

1.First of all, platinum serves as a diversifier within a diversifier. The fundamental differences between platinum and
gold make platinum an excellent complement to gold in investor portfolios.

In fact, platinum is an excellent portfolio diversifier by itself. As explained later, platinum's statistical correlations to
stocks and interest bearing assets are very low, the chief characteristic sought in a portfolio diversification program.

Platinum prices have a much stronger relationship to gold prices, but even here there are important divergences.
Statistically speaking, the quantifiable relationship between monthly platinum price changes and shifts in gold prices
since 1968 has been 83%. This is the extent to which these two metals' prices have moved in tandem. The remaining
17% represents the differences in prices. For example, gold prices peaked in January 1980, around $825 per ounce.
Gold prices promptly fell back. Platinum prices kept rising, however, reaching a peak of $1,040 per ounce in March
1980, two months after the gold price topped out.

Another example was in the period between 1984 - 1986. Platinum prices rose from $286 in 1984 to a peak of $678 in
November 1986. Gold prices kept falling into the first quarter of 1985, and then staged only an anemic recovery until
the second half of 1986. By taking initial positions in platinum in 1984, and then selling the platinum positions in late
1986 to move into gold, some investors were able to compound their profits in the upward move. Gold prices had risen
to only around $325 in November 1986, as platinum was peaking. However, gold kept rising, eventually reaching $497
in late 1987.

2.Platinum primarily is an industrial commodity, while gold is a financial asset.

The vast majority of platinum is used in industrial applications. While most of the gold produced each year now is used
in fabricated products, jewelry accounts for 91% of this demand. In some countries gold jewelry still is used as a form
of savings, while in other areas the price sensitivity of gold jewelry is very high. Thus, even though a significant
amount of gold goes into fabricated products, it is not as much an industrial commodity as is platinum.

Gold jewelry demand can turn off quickly when the price of gold rises sharply, as has happened over the past few
years. Also, gold jewelry sometimes is sold for its metal content when gold prices rise sharply.

Conversely, only about 35% of total platinum use is in jewelry. And even in this sector, the price elasticity of platinum
jewelry demand is less than that of gold jewelry. While gold jewelry often is sold, either when prices rise or in
exchange for new gold jewelry, platinum jewelry is seen more as a keep-sake to be retained.

The remaining 65% of platinum fabrication demand is in applications in which the value of the platinum is much lower
than the cost of the total product. There is only about $24 worth of platinum in the average automobile's catalytic
converter, while the typical car today costs a thousand times that. In 1993 the average price paid for a new domestic
auto in the United States was $17,219, while the average price for an import was $21,988. Similar economics apply in
platinum's other applications, in electronics, medical devices, chemical process and petroleum refining catalysts, glass
making equipment, and other industries. Thus, demand is less likely to decline sharply in the wake of higher platinum
prices, and fabricators and consumers are less likely to sell their platinum-bearing products just because the value of the
platinum inside them has increased.

3.Platinum prices tend to rise sooner in the economic cycle than gold prices. Platinum prices are more responsive to
changes in industrial demand for platinum, which tends to rise as economies expand.

Both platinum and gold prices respond to overall economic conditions. Like most other commodities, these two metals
tend to experience weak or declining prices during recessions.

As economic conditions improve following a recession, gold prices generally lag other commodities. During a
recession, demand is reduced, and inventories often build up, keeping a lid on prices.

Also, in the early stages of an economic recovery consumers tend to focus on basic purchases, including new homes,
furnishings for their homes, and automobiles. Luxury items such as jewelry and electronics, which use gold in
capacitors and connectors, tend to be bought later, as the recovery passes into a further expansion.

Platinum is used in many of the industrial products needed in the early stages of a recovery, however. Platinum is used
in auto catalysts, of course. It also is required in equipment used to make fiber glass, used in building insulation, in auto
body parts, and in a host of other products. Platinum catalysts are used to refine petroleum into chemical feed stocks
going into the manufacture of various plastics. Platinum thermocouples are used in steel furnaces.

Therefore, the revival in industrial demand for platinum tends to lead to platinum prices starting to rise before gold
does. Thus, in 1978 and again in 1985, platinum prices outpaced gold.

4.Platinum is used in a wide variety of industrial products and applications, including gasoline, anti-cancer drugs, fiber
optic cables, fertilizers, explosives, paints, and pacemakers.

This topic has just been addressed. The fact that platinum has a variety of uses protects it against the unknowns of any
single industry. If the auto industry enters a downward phase, with fewer cars being produced and sold, there is a
possibility that some of the other platinum consuming industries, such as the Japanese jewelry sector or the chemical
industry, might be experiencing better fortunes, offsetting some of the price depressing effects of lower demand from
the auto sector.

5.Platinum prices are more volatile than those of gold, given the smaller size of the platinum market. Thus, platinum
prices tend to outpace gold prices during bull markets.

In 1994, gold price volatility ( measured as the spread between the lowest and highest prices each month as a percent of
the lowest price ) ranged between 1% and 4%. Platinum price volatility ranged between 2.5% and 8% over the same
period. The same relationship has held true historically: Platinum prices generally have been more volatile than those
of gold. This greater volatility offers shorter term investors increased potential to profit from price moves, while also
providing enhanced returns for longer term investors, due to platinum's historical tendency to rise further in
percentage terms than gold prices.

6.There are no large above ground inventories of platinum. Above ground gold stocks total approximately two billion
ounces in bullion and coinage form, including more than 800 million ounces held by private investors and more than
1.1 billion ounces held by central banks and other government authorities. Another 1.2 billion ounces of gold are held
in the form of jewelry, decorative objects, and religious items, some of which could be sold for their gold content were
prices to rise. Bullion and bullion coins are equivalent to about 23 years' worth of fabrication demand for gold,
presently around 85 million ounces per year.

Platinum stocks may total around 6.5 million ounces worldwide, including metal held in Russia, Switzerland, and the
United States. With present levels of fabrication demand hovering near 5.0 million ounces per year, this would be
equivalent to 1.3 years' worth of demand.

All such estimates of worldwide metal inventories must be viewed with a great deal of caution. Even so, it is clear that
the amount of platinum lying around in inventories relative to annual platinum demand requirements is much smaller
than it is for gold. Also, it is equally clear that for all of these metals, including gold, a great deal of the metal held in
inventories might not be readily forthcoming under any reasonable price scenario. Over the past 20 years gold and
platinum prices have risen sharply and fallen dramatically. Throughout these variations, the flow of metal from
inventories and scrapped jewelry and decorative objects has been very low, under 5% of estimated inventories.

Another attractive aspect of commodities is the heterogeneous nature of these investments: They do not move in tandem
with each other, any more than individual stocks move in line with one another. While the overall stock market index
may be rising or falling, individual stocks within that composite may be moving sharply in the opposite direction. So
too with individual commodities.

Platinum prices tend to move in line with general commodity indices slightly less than half of the time. The chart here
shows platinum prices and the CRB ( Commodity Research Bureau ) index of 21 commodities, one of the most popular
commodity indices used by investors. Statistically, platinum prices have only a 48.9% correlation to the CRB.

Platinum as an Ideal Portfolio Diversifier

This brings us to the third and final role, platinum as an ideal portfolio diversifier. As mentioned earlier, the statistical
relationships between platinum prices, on the one hand, and stock prices and interest rates, on the other, are very low. This
qualifies platinum as a good instrument with which to diversify one's portfolio.

The ideal portfolio diversifier is one that has little to no statistical relationship with the other assets in the portfolio. A
common misunderstanding is that a portfolio diversifier should have a high but negative correlation. That would make it a
counter-cyclical asset, rising as the other assets decline in value, and falling back as they recover. A better way to diversify a
portfolio is to find assets that have no relationship to the other assets. Sometimes, they will all rise together. At other times,
they will all fall together. Still yet at other times they will move in opposite directions. While it may seem strange, extensive
quantitative, statistical work has proven that such a portfolio offers superior returns over time.

Platinum's measured relationship with U.S. Treasury bills has been 17%, calculated using quarterly data from 1968 through
the middle of 1994. Similarly, platinum's correlation with the Dow Jones Industrial Average has been 19% on a monthly basis
over the same time, while it has had a 23% correlation with the S&P 500.

Platinum did well in the 1970s, when stocks and U.S. T-bills did miserably. From around 1987 to 1992 U.S. equities and
T-bills outperformed platinum. Since then, platinum has outperformed stocks and bonds once more. Here, what is important is
the effect that platinum has on a portfolio, smoothing out the variations in the portfolio's value over time. Certainly overall
performance would be better if one were able to manage one's portfolio so as to only hold assets that will rise in the future.

That is a difficult trick to pull off, however. Modern portfolio theory holds, and empirical tests have demonstrated it to be
true, that a better approach is to manage a portfolio with a diverse profit profile. Sometimes, all of the assets will be
appreciating together. Sometimes, they all may be falling in value at the same time. More often than not, they will be heading
in various directions at various times. Over the long run, the return on a portfolio that has unrelated assets tends to be greater
than the return on portfolios that have only assets that have high correlations with each other.

In addition to platinum's strength as a portfolio diversifier, platinum also has some value as a hedge against inflation and a
hedge against currency market disturbances. Platinum prices actually have a better statistical correlation to overall inflation,
measured by the U.S. Consumer Price Index, than do gold prices. From 1968 through 1994 platinum prices had a 44.9%
correlation to the CPI, far higher than the statistical relationship between gold prices and general price inflation.

Even so, the relationship is far from perfect, and it shifts dramatically over time. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, for
example, platinum prices rose and fell in direct relationship to overall inflation. Since 1991, however, U.S. inflation rates have
fallen steadily while platinum prices were consistently stronger, at least until 1995.

While platinum prices sometimes are directly related to inflation rates, they sometimes move indirectly to the U.S. dollar's
exchange rate. In the early 1980s platinum prices declined sharply as the dollar, measured here on a trade-weighted basis,
rose. In the middle part of the 1980s, both reversed course at about the same time. Platinum then rose for a year, while the
dollar slid. As the chart on Platinum and the Dollar shows, since the early 1990s both the dollar and platinum have trended
sideways, with platinum showing a slight upward trend.

(Tue May 12 1998 15:50 - ID#269409)
"Flight to Quality"....(hmmm, has that phrase ever been heard here before?

Tuesday May 12, 3:26 pm Eastern Time

Dow spurts higher late session as long bond soars

NEW YORK, May 12 ( Reuters ) - The Dow rallied late session Tuesday, taking its cue from a soaring long bond, traders said.

``We are not seeing any news other than the long bond taking off, and stocks are just going along with the ride,'' said Jim
Benning, a trader with BT Brokerage.

At 1511 EDT/1911 GMT, the Dow was up 42 points at 9133, after briefly hitting a session high of 9141.

The New York Stock Exchange introduced index arbitrage trading curbs at 1506 EDT/1906 GMT.

The long bond was up 1-1/32 to yield 5.96 percent.

The S&P500 index was up five points at 1112.

But declining issues continued to outpace advancers by 16 to 12 on modest volume of 510 million shares.

The blue chip rally helped the Nasdaq pull itself into positive terrain. The tech-studded index was up two points at 1850.

Traders said the long bond rallied on flight-to-quality by investors amid renewed concerns about Asia, and rumors
surrounding the Hong Kong dollar.

Traders also cited a positive response by the market to the U.S. Treasury's final 3-year note auction held earlier on Tuesday.

Investors became nervous when the long bond yield pushed above six percent Monday. Higher rates can dent corporate

(Tue May 12 1998 15:53 - ID#31868)
Prometheus - I am pleased India is asserting itself in the region. The Chinese
have their paid-for idiot in the White House and they are up to no good, of that you can be assured.

I would love to see the American media focus on that region of the world, but they will not, and if they do, it will be spun into "EVIL" rogue India threatening world peace. Instead of "India giving China something to think about."

(Tue May 12 1998 15:59 - ID#212197)
The Creature from Jekyll Island from G. Edward Griffin
I just ordered another copy for a friend in the Ukraine.
The woman on the phone told me that they sold around 8,000 copies just in this past week alone. It's their best seller!
I was completely amazed to learn about this high number of sales.

It makes me feel very optimistic about the growing awareness and the growing need of people to learn more about the FED system and it's history and the political powers ( i.e., dynasties ) which dominate the USA and large areas of the globe.
( 1-800-595-6596 ) .

Alberich the Dwarf

(Tue May 12 1998 16:00 - ID#177146)
@ RayZor
I appreciate the come back but I must have asked the question wrong. At approximately the same timeframe I bought Harmony @ 3 1/2 and Randgold at 1 7/16. I went away for six weeks and return to find Harmony at 5 3/4 and Randgold at 1 5/32. I was only trying to find out what caused the disparity.

(Tue May 12 1998 16:02 - ID#286279)
Guarino make any good calls lately? What is the gist of his current story on gold and silver?

Your beautiful translation makes it your poem now. Wonderful.

Cage Rattler
(Tue May 12 1998 16:06 - ID#33184)
North Korea - U.S. is hit for aggressive maritime strategy
Pyongyang, May 7 ( KCNA ) -- After the end of the Cold War the U.S. is now pursuing the military policy of further strengthening maritime strategy, clamouring about "military responsibility and role" as the "only superpower" and "reaction to emergency" in different regions of the world. Rodong Sinmun May 7, commenting on this, says the U.S. policy of threatening other countries and interfering in their internal affairs and maintaining and expanding domination by force of arms with sea waters as the main operation theatre still remains unchanged even after the end of the Cold War. The news analyst says: The U.S. maritime strategy aims at the Persian Gulf and the Asia-Pacific region, the Korean peninsula in particular. The U.S. is now trying to unleash another Korean War and invade the DPRK by using South Korea which is its colonial military base and where it keeps hold on the prerogative of the supreme command and the self-styled "unsinkable aircraft carrier" Japan which is a junior ally. With a view to realising their ambition, the U.S. is deploying huge maritime and air forces including carrier flotilla around South Korea for a real war. This eloquently shows that the U.S. makes it a fait accompli to provoke the second Korean War and directs the spearhead of its maritime strategy to Korea. Pinning hope on the advantages of maritime strategy, the U.S. is making desperate efforts to win naval supremacy in the world and realise its wild ambition for domination over the world. Its efforts betray its policy of hegemony and high-handedness.

North Korea News Agency

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 12 1998 16:07 - ID#384350)
Alberich, Re: Creature from Jeckyll Island
Could you please get the normal telephone number of the distributor of that book in addition to the "800" one. Most of us outside of the US can't call those numbers.

(Tue May 12 1998 16:08 - ID#286279)
You translated your own poem?

Cage Rattler
(Tue May 12 1998 16:09 - ID#33184)
North Korea hints at resuming nuclear program
TOKYO ( REUTERS,May 7, 1998 8:44 p.m. EDT ) - North Korea on Friday accused the United States of not living up to the terms of an agreement to supply it with nuclear reactors and hinted that it may resume its own nuclear program if the U.S. doesn't come through soon.

"All facts show that ( North Korea ) has gone further in implementing the agreement whereas the U.S. side is not sincerely fulfilling its obligations," a Foreign Ministry spokesman was quoted as saying by the Korean Central News Agency ( KCNA ) .

"Therefore, ( we ) should no longer lend an ear to the empty promise of the U.S. side, but open and readjust the frozen nuclear facilities and do everything our own way," the spokesman told KCNA, which was monitored in Tokyo.

"There is a limit to our patience on this matter," he added.

Under a 1994 agreement with the United States, North Korea agreed to halt its nuclear program -- which Washington said was aimed at producing nuclear weapons -- in return for two 1,000-megawatt light-water nuclear reactors that would provide it with electric power.

It also called for interim fuel deliveries that would help ease an energy shortage until the new reactors were on line sometime after 2000.

The Foreign Ministry spokesman said that while North Korea had obeyed the agreement by freezing its nuclear program, the United States had not set out the schedule for fuel supplies this year and had not been delivering fuel to North Korea "in time."

He also expressed doubts that one of the light-water nuclear reactors would be completed on time.

Despite the North's criticism of the United States, the main question hanging over the reactor agreement is whether financially strapped Japan and South Korea will be able to pay the billions of dollars they pledged for the reactor construction.

On May 1, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright warned South Korea and Japan that North Korea may resume its nuclear weapons program if a pledge to provide Pyongyang with fuel oil and nuclear power technology is not met.

Albright, during a recent visit to South Korea and Japan, told both U.S. allies it was urgent for them to help underwrite some $47 million owed for past fuel oil deliveries, but no commitments were made.

(Tue May 12 1998 16:11 - ID#210235)
It's already begun. Economic sanctions against India are a sure bet, according to the radio news at noon.

(Tue May 12 1998 16:12 - ID#31868)
Gianni Dioro has the book in paperback. Just type in the title.

(Tue May 12 1998 16:14 - ID#269409)
@ Allen.... 200 day average....1 year ago price
Your 14:45. I concur completely, shorts beware. Merril Lynch type funds and Ted Armstrongs of the wordl beware. This is the time to get IN to Silver, not out. This is a bull market, and none of the fundamentals have changed one whit, other than a softening in India and Asia demand, ( which will not be nearly enough to change the supply deficit in 98, IMHO )

Putting Gold and Silver into that "annualized" snapshot, we'd also do well to remember that a year ago today;

Silver closed 18% lower than it did today, at $4.87
Gold closed 14% Higher than it did today, at $ 348.00

IMHO, when it comes to Silver, neither a lender, nor a lender be!

(Tue May 12 1998 16:17 - ID#212197)
@sam: Thanks Sam. Guarino especially recommends the Silver contract long for December .
And of course: buy gold. He recommends to roll from June to September.

I'm very happy you liked my poem. I wrote it originally in German.

Alberich the Dwarf

Cage Rattler
(Tue May 12 1998 16:17 - ID#33184)
Nick Goodwin - Time to take some profit on gold shares
Well-known gold guru in South Africa as reported on local radio show.

"Nick Goodwin reckons gold shares have run so hard that they are now
discounting a bullion price of around $315 - and with the metal unlikely to reach that in the short-term, he advises some profit taking. There could be a pullback of as much as 200 points in the All Gold Index ( currently 1063 ) although the final destination remains 2 000 or more."

(Tue May 12 1998 16:20 - ID#31868)
Prometheus - the Coward Erect has no foreign policy save one of supplying
the Chinese with whatever they want. He has sacrificed our national security. In addition I believe that due to treatys and the like the US has no choice but to impose sanctions, but I am not positive. I remember that at one point there were talks and one of the penalties was sanctions.

The Chinese already have a diplomatic immunity foothold in Long Beach, CA and another in the Southern part of the US. Both under the guise of a Chinese corporation which is owned by the Chinese government.

Cage Rattler
(Tue May 12 1998 16:20 - ID#33184)
SA Reserve Bank governor the next to quit?
Latest rumor from London - the ANC is planning to get rid of powerful White figures in South Africa. First it was the Minister of Defense ( George Meiring ) , then the rugby boss ( Louis Luyt ) , and next is the Governor of the Reserve Bank ( Chris Stals ) .

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 16:23 - ID#24135)
for tsclaw
Harmony outperformed everything on the
JSE gold board. They also improved earnings
in the first quarter over the 4th quarter
despite a lower gold price.
Rangold had to book the investment
for the siama mine. Also they
had to book paper losses they took
on sales of some of the deeps and
harmony they held at poor prices.
Rangold's future will depend at lot
on how well the Mali operation goes.
The 1st quarter results were NOT
as good as 4th quarter 1997.. for
a variety of one-off reasons .. but
the markets doesnt accept explanations
only results. I think it is very
undervalued now. I have sold Harmony
but I continue to hold Rangold.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 12 1998 16:24 - ID#384350)
Tolerant1, Thanks but no Thanks
I don't care to deal with Amazon. I'm concerned about privacy matters and sending credit card info over the net. I'd prefer to deal with the company Alberich mentioned. If anyone can call that 800 number and ask for the local number I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

(Tue May 12 1998 16:25 - ID#212197)
@Gianni Dioro: I'm sorry, I wasn't aware of this!
Gianni Dioro__A ( Alberich, Re: Creature from Jeckyll Island ) ID#384350:
Could you please get the normal telephone number of the distributor of that book in addition to the "800" one. Most of us outside of the US can't call those numbers.

I just called AMERICAN MEDIA, because in their book they published only the 800 number. Here it is:

USA 805-469-1649


(Tue May 12 1998 16:27 - ID#14431)
S&P500/Gold ratio just misses all-time high

The S&P/Gold ratio closed today at 3.749, just 0.5% off its all-time high of 3.769 reached on 3/20/98. One more up day, and the ratio will undoubtedly hit a new high.

Donald, question for you. How valid are these ratios given that gold has only intermittenly been allowed to float at free value during this century? Indeed, if ANOTHER is correct, gold even now is not at it's true value as we are calculating it. Basically, the POG may only have been free of interference/fixing from 1973 to 1990 ( again, if you believe ANOTHER ) . Heck, it may NEVER have been free from manipulation.

Do these ratios mean ANYTHING?


(Tue May 12 1998 16:38 - ID#269409)
SSRIF closes up 4 %
Hmmmm, Silver takes a nasty beating and Silver Standard Reserve closes up 4%.... meanwhile PAASF and SSC drop approx. 4% and 5%, not much more than POS drop. This is not the behaviour of a market going into "Bear" indeedy.....This looks very close to a bottom when the MA's are factored in with the fundamentals, and the action in shares.

( But I STILL havn't ben able to get my order filled for SSC at 1.00...maybe tomorrow.... )

(Tue May 12 1998 16:39 - ID#228100)
Indian Nuke
India explode a nuke without permission from the USA? How dare they do something like that! What a rogue state! What a bunch of criminals! It can only get worse. Before long, they'll be having sex with young interns, lying to Congress, and perhaps even their key people will begin to die in mysterious circumstances!

(Tue May 12 1998 16:43 - ID#212197)
@Gianni Dioro: I mistyped!!! Sorry!!!! The right number is: 805-496-1649
Gianni Dioro__A ( Tolerant1, Thanks but no Thanks ) ID#384350:
I don't care to deal with Amazon. I'm concerned about privacy matters and sending credit card info ...29 more word

My little daughter ( 4 ) likes to look at Snow-White. There is a dwarf who blushes all the time. that's how I feel right now!
Sorry again.

Alberich the Dwarf

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 16:43 - ID#24135)
There's even a rumour
Gage Rattler
That they're planning to get rid of
just for info .. everybody wanted
to get rid of luyt. He reminded me
of ... never mind. Does "london"
think a Black guy will replace him??
Did "london" say that a white guy
just replaced the previously Black
manager of the almost all Black
bafana bafana football team?
Meiring was apparently set up
and then replaced .. but he was to
retire soon anyway.
Obviously the ANC would like to
show a few Black faces in key positions
as a sign that they are making progress
in "transforming" society.
They are doing very badly so far.

(Tue May 12 1998 16:44 - ID#246224)
Last Fall this was quoted from WB source. A real honest to goodness number. They only got 70% and had problems with delivery until just now. I'm sure WB will take opportunies as they come along.

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 16:48 - ID#24135)
It must be true
Guy told me Aikidos couldnt lock their
wrists. He said, "Trust me on this."
Im only going on what I was told. I dont
want to start anything.

(Tue May 12 1998 16:51 - ID#246224)
Mr. Disney
Do not mistake poise for weakness or effemininity. Aikido is the mastery of helping the aggressor to defeat himself. The more powerful the aggressor the greater the defeat. No Aikido master would be bothered by your characterization as he/she would not care. But anyone attacking such a one would find out that there is a great price to pay for one's own aggression.

(Tue May 12 1998 16:52 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 30.79 This is a new high and breaks the previous high of 30.54 set on March 20th. The 50 day moving average is 29.40

(Tue May 12 1998 16:54 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .279 The 50 day moving average is .268

(Tue May 12 1998 16:54 - ID#246224)
Door #3
the blond with the jar of pickles and bottle of vodka

(Tue May 12 1998 16:55 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 53.24

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 16:57 - ID#24135)
Sorry Allan
gee.. I didnt mean to hit a nerve.
I didnt even realize you were there.
You came up my blind side you rascal.
Like I said, it was only what a guy
told me.. and you seem to have great
... poise.
Wouldnt wanta get cross ways with
you now would I.

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 17:00 - ID#24135)
Gold silver ratio
for Donald
I think that is a new recent high.
what does that mean to you ??

(Tue May 12 1998 17:08 - ID#26793)
Good question about the "real" price of gold in figuring thr Dow/Gold Ratio. I thought about it a bit and think it is valid because any stock owner can still sell his stocks and walk into the local coin store and lock in gold at the spot price plus a small percentage for minting if he takes coins. That is no different than in 1929 with the exception of the small percentage.

That does not mean that I do not agree with Another. I think he is right and that the paper gold price is keeping the spot price artifically low. That was true in 1932 as well. There was not enough gold on deposit to redeem all the dollars in circulation. Paper was keeping the price down then also. The "market" has not caught on yet. We know it here at Kitco but until the rest of the world figures it out the price will remain artifically low.

(Tue May 12 1998 17:10 - ID#31868)
99 out of 100 Americans have no clue about gold and they will have no clue until after it is way too late.

(Tue May 12 1998 17:12 - ID#288295)
Cage Ratttler @ 16:06

North Korea has a NEWS AGENCY? Hahahahahaha!!! Must be the most boring job on the planet !!

(Tue May 12 1998 17:13 - ID#212197)
@tolerant1: Your comments on American - China Politics
I usually enjoy your comments very much.
My thoughts to the American-Chinese relationship are these: the worst thing what could happen to the world, to America, and to China, would be a building confrontation of these two powers, not even to speak of war.

I give the Chinese "communists" credit for re-introducing grassroot capitalism and they are doing very well economically since the last 10 years. The average annual growth rate of their GNP was 9%. Of course, the "revolutionary army" controls a lot of weapon oriented enterprises. But the "communist leaders" have understood, IMHO, that the way to go is a capital and profit based economy. They nourish a population of 1 billion much better than many other countries do.

As far as human rights are concerned: I principally don't believe that those who operate with these terms give a damn. They just use these words for propaganda.

Now think: would you allow Rockefellers think tanks with his influence agents to form political "liberation" movements in this country, if you were one of the chinese former communists, who doesn't believe in communism anymore? They have to be careful. they are not stupid and know what's going on in the "western world". They know why certain supra-national power groups want to get their foot into the Chinese house-door.

As far as certain basic human rights are concerned: that's a dilemma.
I have no solution. But I don't trust these wetern "human rights" experts either. These guys have their own agenda and I fully understand that the Chinese want them keep out.

Alberich the Dwarf

(Tue May 12 1998 17:18 - ID#262242)
Hi Strad
Strad Master, Haven't seen you posting here lately. Are you ok???? Drop me a note when you can.

Thanks for the Clox program, its a beauty.

Tolerant1, looks like we have a mutual friend coming to visit in August. He is a very nice & gracious person. Would like to see him again but he is not comeing to the west coast, maybe I can come to N.Y.

Goooooooooo Gold

(Tue May 12 1998 17:20 - ID#288369)
@Air pressure.........psi.............
Tension is mounting within me and Kitco....I sense something's about to break.......and it's not the sole result of a full moon reference to timing, this is when I normally retreat, cover my bases and completely miss the result I've been awaiting. I'm in need of a hypnotist....Strad where are you? Save me from my impetuous self...."you are becoming veeery sleeeeepie......" studio.stupido

John Disney__A
(Tue May 12 1998 17:21 - ID#24135)
China and Human rights.
for Alberich
Agree .. but recent films with Gere
and Pitt that present China as evil
and Tibet as groovey worry me a bit.
Public opinion is being organized.

(Tue May 12 1998 17:27 - ID#31868)
ALBERICH_A - I do not trust the Chinese. In this century alone it would be very
difficult to add up the millions that have been slaughtered there. I give them no quarter. I also do not condone the current administration's cozy relationship with the Chinese Military. There is no other power in China save one of guns and fear. I do not appreciate their being handed strategic points on the US mainland, notably on the west coast and south eastern coast. COSCO is owned and operated by the Chinese Military.

Given the choice of two evils as put forth in your post, I reject both. I full well understand and agree that a confrontational situation between these two countries would not be positive for the world populace.

We need much more than we now have in the White House. That is for sure.


(Tue May 12 1998 17:27 - ID#26793)
@John Disney
I searched back to November 21, 1997, and found a Gold/Silver Ratio of 58.41. That is about the time Buffett started buying but we didn't know it at the time. Gold was $305.50, silver was $5.23.

I like silver at this price. Buffett has strong hands. He is in no rush to sell. He is raising cash by selling USAir I heard today. I suspect he is buying gold the same way he bought silver. PM's are a bargain compared to anything else he has in his portfolio. Silver was this price in March of 1985. The dollar has lost value since then but you can still by silver at a 13 year old price with the now devalued greenbacks. Hard to refuse a deal like that.

(Tue May 12 1998 17:29 - ID#228100)
Indian Nuke
In response to India's test, Pakistan will also test a nuke within the next month. The race has begun! Hang on to your PM's!!!

(Tue May 12 1998 17:32 - ID#31868)
John Disney - I have not been to a movie in a very long while. My thoughts on
China are not new. I detested the murdering little Communist Chinese weasel coming to the US. The military runs everything in China. As to your remarks on Tibet, long before hollywood the Chinese have been murdering people there.

(Tue May 12 1998 17:39 - ID#253418)
What can make gold rally??
Doesn't seem much can. Even the explosion of atomic weapons in the sensitive India, Pakastan, China cornern, no. Not possilbe devaluation in HK - heavens if they actually do devalue gold will sell for $200.

Yes, the fundlementals for silver are great, except there seems to be alot of silver around for sale.

Wouldn't be surprised to see gold and silver just slide lower and lower as interest wanes, industrial demand falls and commodity prices sink, OH, and the dollar and bonds continue to be the safe haven for world investors.

XAU, next stop 78, silver next stop after a 15 cent rally $500 and gold $286.

If you don't agree tell me WHAT will make gold go higher - nothing that has happened in the last 18 years or last 6 months seems to do the trick to any lasting degree.

(Tue May 12 1998 17:40 - ID#288369)
Please go see "As Good As It Gets".....Jack Nicholson, Helen my humble opinion, the finest acting or ANY category of artistic expression, for that matter, that I've seen in ten or more years ( I admired also Rainman ( Hoffman ) and Forrest Gump ( Hanks ) ) NICHOLSON'S PERFORMANCE....A MUST SEE!

(Tue May 12 1998 17:41 - ID#254269)
Is there some irony here ? (that the two areas of the world that seem to be coming
apart are Indonesia and India/China ? Seems to me that the Indonesians and Chinese were big ( and illegal ? ) contributors to Clinton and the Democrats.

Gosh, I'm even starting to think that there may be some conspiracies here somewhere !

(Tue May 12 1998 17:42 - ID#26793)
You have to differentiate between the Chinese leaders and the Chinese people. The same thing could happen in America someday. Chairman Smith or Chairman Jones sends in the police or the military to beat up on our Avon ladies. One of the reasons I speak for gold is to prevent that from happening.

(Tue May 12 1998 17:48 - ID#410215)
..... Regarding the Pissing Contest twixt LGB & JD .....

May I just interject that I am in no way involved?

This is cool


(Tue May 12 1998 17:50 - ID#31868)
STUDIO_R I will send one of the Cuervo Central dwellers to the
store to rent the video. Thanks for the suggestion. Namaste'

(Tue May 12 1998 17:51 - ID#288369)

(Tue May 12 1998 17:51 - ID#14431)
Donald--more on Dow/S&P/Gold

I think I disagree with you that the ratio is a valid indicator of the value of the markets. I hope this is not splitting hairs, but I do think it is a indicator of relative value, however. There have been incredible, once in a generation opportunities to buy gold or the stocks, and the dow/gold indicator has shown those times clearly. We are at one such point right now. In fact, I surmise we are there because of the incredible manipulation going on in both the equity and gold markets, IMHO.

Look where the S&P/Gold ratio is now, compared to important turning points in the 20th century:

The close today: 3.749, just 0.5% off the century high ( 3.769--3/20/98 )
The annual average for the century: 0.890
The annual median for the century: 0.525

We are 33.8% over the absolute peak day in 1968 ( 2.802 )
We are 142.4% over the absolute peak day in 1929 ( 1.547 )

We are 1,596.5% above the 1942 absolute low day ( 0.220 )
And 2,784.1% above the 1980 absolute low day ( 0.130 ) !

I am not bemoaning manipulation, I'm celebrating it! We are at the buying opportunity of the century for gold. And WE get to take advantage of it.

God, I love this site. I could never have come to this realization if it weren't for all of you. Thanks for the education.


(Tue May 12 1998 17:53 - ID#31868)
Donald - I agree with you 100% - that is why in my post I constantly utilized the
CHINESE MILITARY when addressing the "Chinese." If it was not clear then let it be clear here, the Chinese are a wonderful and highly imaginative people. On the other hand the CHINESE MILITARY SUCKS!


(Tue May 12 1998 17:54 - ID#26793)
Further gold loans and hedging are unlikely

(Tue May 12 1998 17:58 - ID#26793)
Royal Oak news

(Tue May 12 1998 18:00 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Brother John,

In this platinum/palladium story there is a very
tricky element - Russia. I have my theory that
all this public info on Russian stockpiles of
both metals is not clean. I think delivery of some
Russian platinum is underway, and palladium is next.

But don't worry, paladium will be under $300, it is
not worth its current price from ANY point of view
( in comparison with platinum or gold ) . Give it a couple
of weeks to cool down. Probably, somebody thinks that
palladium is cheap, buys it now, and this somebody is
not correct, I think. I may be wrong, but we'll see.

(Tue May 12 1998 18:02 - ID#183109)
TSCLAW request for RANGY info
( 30/04/98 ) Prelim Report: ch - "The Syama I commissioning programme is on track for completion in June 1998 and Syama II in November 1998. A steady improvement is expected up to a production rate of 0.27m ounces per annum at $210 per ounce by the last quarter of the calendar"

Also, they just added 2.2 million ounces to reserves from their very productive EXPLORATION : ) program. Did I mention that RANGY is primarily an EXPLORATTION company? Yes? : ) Email me and I'll send ya more as I compile it. Patience my friend! Considering we are once again below 300, RANGY is holding up very well.

(Tue May 12 1998 18:04 - ID#26793)
Red alert has been cancelled. Fleet of Chinese junks carrying fortune cookies stuffed with negative sayings has been ordered returned to port on this side of pond.

(Tue May 12 1998 18:06 - ID#288369)
@POLARBEAR and Lord Disney,
And as always, Thank You for the RSA data.

(Tue May 12 1998 18:09 - ID#287312)
Tolerant1 /
You shouldn't be so hard on our President's little friends. Just because they regularly murder and torture christians. They wouldn't dare harm us, Clinton was nice enough to give them missile guidance technologies. You know they wouldn't us that against us. I've never been so sick, and still there is no outrage. The complacincy of the American people is maybe the most disgusting factor here.

(Tue May 12 1998 18:18 - ID#31868)

(Tue May 12 1998 18:21 - ID#254269)
Donald, how much damage can a fortune cookie
do ? Are these conventional fortune cookies or nukes ?

(Tue May 12 1998 18:21 - ID#31868)
suspicious - most Americans think Cosco is new and improved vanilla

(Tue May 12 1998 18:22 - ID#253153)
Donald, I have not seen any data today
Has the fed added or drained reserves today ?

(Tue May 12 1998 18:31 - ID#257136)
More junk-but funny.
Subject: Billie Jeff Limericks

Contest Requirements: To use the names Lewinsky and Kaczynsky in
a limerick

Contestants' Entries:

Entry # 1
There once was a gal named Lewinsky
Who played on a flute like Stravinsky
'Twas "Hail to the Chief"
on this flute made of beef
that stole the front page from Kaczynski.

Entry # 2
Said Bill Clinton to young Ms. Lewinsky
We don't want to leave clues like Kaczynski,
Since you look such a mess,
use the hem of your dress
And wipe that stuff off of your chinsky.

Entry # 3
Lewinsky and Clinton have shown
what Kaczynski must surely have known:
that an intern is better
than a bomb in a letter
given the choice of how to be blown.

Entry # 4
There was a young girl called Lewinsky,
Who caused as much stir as Kaczynski
When on Kenneth Starr's lap
she confided, when trapped,
"Bill Clinton is hung like Nijinsky." *

( *Nijinsky is a thoroughbred racehorse not to be confused with the ballet
dancer. )

-----------------End of Original Message-----------------

*** M.D. Smith, IV WA4DXP **********
*** Ph. ( 205 ) 533-3131, ext. 214 ********
*** Fax ( 205 ) 533-6616 Huntsville, AL **
*** e-mail ********
** also *******

(Tue May 12 1998 18:35 - ID#288295)
India Nukes - they did it and they're glad!

(Tue May 12 1998 18:40 - ID#28994)
JIMS..Your 17.59
You are wondering what it takes to move up the price of Old Yellow .
The answer may be in the question of why the price dropped in the first place. I can't answer either one.
I am not into yellow, just the mines, and they move with the price.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 12 1998 18:44 - ID#384350)
AllenUSA, WB
I believe WB wanted more, I just hadn't heard about it. With those lawsuits filed against Philbro, I wonder if WB's agents weren't getting in on the action.

Tolerant1 and Alberich, thanks for the info on the book. Now, what about, "None Dare Call it Conspiracy"?

(Tue May 12 1998 18:45 - ID#26793)
@JP The Fed refrained from action on reserves today

(Tue May 12 1998 18:48 - ID#288295)
Bottom Fishers here's a nuke to look at
Now I know most of you are intensely looking at gold/silver for a move, but since nukes are in the headlines today, take a look at this chart of URIX ( a uranium mining co. ) for a terminal chart pattern ( a diagonal triangle ) - NOBODY is paying any attention to uranium:

(Tue May 12 1998 18:49 - ID#267344)
Oris - FYI
Palladium is definately a disgrace to the entire precious metals community. It has absolutely no right to be as expensive as it is. Palladium more expenisive than Gold? Now way! Nothing stranger has ever happened or ever will happen. It is the most absurd thing I have ever heard - I refuse to acknowledge it.
- c

(Tue May 12 1998 18:50 - ID#26793)
Jim Rogers offers predictions & forecasts. The Euro is full of "phoney bookkeeping".

(Tue May 12 1998 18:52 - ID#225283)
power grid Y2K

Does anyone happen to have the web site url for the site that was posted here a few days ago refering to power grid meltdown & the CIA whitepaper on same? Thank You Very Much...

(Tue May 12 1998 18:54 - ID#26793)
Argentine bankruptcies up 17%, legal action against non-payers up 35%

(Tue May 12 1998 18:57 - ID#210235)
The Fed news you requested.

(Tue May 12 1998 19:00 - ID#253153)
Prometheus and Donald--- thank you

(Tue May 12 1998 19:03 - ID#31868)
PrivateInvestor - this may help...

Cage Rattler
(Tue May 12 1998 19:08 - ID#33182)
@PrivateInvestor - Y2K link

and go to 'Power Grid' at the end of the page

(Tue May 12 1998 19:11 - ID#225283)

Thank you for your lead but it was a different site...and I thought I had saved it but I guess not...I guess I with just have to back track through the kitco posts over the weekend.

(Tue May 12 1998 19:16 - ID#238295)
Peter Munk blasts Ted and Andy ( not by name, but we know who he means )

Barrick dismisses European bank's impact on gold
05:47 p.m May 12, 1998 Eastern
By Paul Simao

TORONTO, May 12 ( Reuters ) - The establishment of a European central bank
will have a negligible impact on the future price of gold, Barrick Gold
Corp. Chairman Peter Munk said during a spirited sermon to shareholders
at the company's annual meeting on Tuesday.

Munk spared neither fire nor brimstone in a thundering denunciation of
those who have argued the European Union's 11 member countries will be
major sellers of gold when a European central bank is created on January
1, 1999.

Gold analysts have said the European central bank's decision to hold a
certain portion of its reserves -- estimates range from five to 30
percent -- in gold would be an important benchmark for central banks
outside and within the EU.

Central bank sales of gold were cited as the trigger for gold bullion's
dramatic fall from a 1997 high of $363 an ounce to a low of $277.90 an
ounce early this year.

Munk said the European central bank's decision, if and when it was
announced, would not change the fundamentals for gold bullion.

''My proposition to you is that it does not matter because the
composition of the new central European bank is such that the balance of
the gold of those nations that have more than 30 percent will remain in
what is going to be called and which, de facto and legally, remains the
national central banks,'' Munk told shareholders.

Munk contended it would be the central banks of France, Germany and
Italy that would decide the future direction of bullion.

Total gold reserves held by the 11 members of the EU amount to more than
10,200 tonnes, of which 75 percent is controlled by the German, French
and Italian central banks.

Germany has 29 percent of its reserves in gold, France holds 48 percent
in gold and Italy maintains a 28-percent holding.

The world average for gold as a percentage of central bank foreign
exchange reserves is 15 percent.

Munk said he had received personal assurances during a recent gold
industry conference in Davos, Switzerland that ruled out sales by
Germany, France and Italy.

''Those three have made categorical statements in our presence in Davos,
Switzerland that they do not have any intentions to demonetize any
amount of gold,'' Munk said.

(Tue May 12 1998 19:39 - ID#210114)
ECB Gold Reserves Irrelevant??

Toronto--May 12--The European Central Bank's anxiously awaited decision on
how much gold to hold as foreign reserves will be irrelevant to the gold
price, Peter Munk, chairman of Barrick Gold Corp., said today. Munk said
governors of the French, German and Italian central banks had told him
their institutions would keep any gold the ECB chose not to absorb. By Erik
Schatzker, Bridge News, Story .16482

(Tue May 12 1998 19:43 - ID#284255)
Private Investor
Here's two of the CIA articles,4,21806,00.html

Deadline for Nuclear Power Plants' Compliance: July 1, 1999

(Tue May 12 1998 19:44 - ID#412286)
Whose gonna keep
Them dollars when a little competition hits. Hello recession Hello high interest rates Hello new reserve currency Hello Two tiered currency system in US one internal one external with govt controls on internal prices. This is all after the US crash that everyone BIG knows is coming and Clinton is trying to stave off and BEG for foreign cooperation. The Euro is not being pushed through just for fun folks. They know when this bubble blows it is gonna blow like a financial hydrogen bomb. Hence the Euro with gold. Beg Billy Beg.

(Tue May 12 1998 19:48 - ID#210114)
Thailand in Trouble Again?

(Tue May 12 1998 19:52 - ID#257136)
AIKIDO @ John Disney.
Aikido is in fact nothing but MAYHEM deliberately practiced on a person so macho as to ATTEMPT to attack a practioner thereof.
It was taught myslef and a couple dozen others in 1973 as means of going about our business quietly.
More effective the limp wrist than the noisy Karate or gun!
I guess what it boils down to is-if ya ain't tried it don't knock it!!
( 8+^} ( grin thingie w/ tongue in cheek! )

(Tue May 12 1998 20:04 - ID#201238)
comex gold stocks
Someone thinks gold is going down. Eligible stocks jumped 70,000 oz today.

warehouse stocks: -- GOLD ( Quoted in Troy Ounce )
Depository Prev. Received Net. Adjust- Total
Total Withdrawn Chg. ment Today
0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 Total
0 0 0 0 0 0
78,323 0 0 0 0 78,323
53,159 70,020 0 70,020 0 123,179 Total
131,482 70,020 0 70,020 0 201,502
166,425 0 0 0 0 166,425
17,682 0 0 0 0 17,682 Total
184,107 0 0 0 0 184,107
283,411 0 0 0 0 283,411
107,683 0 0 0 0 107,683 Total
391,094 0 0 0 0 391,094
0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 Total
0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 Total
0 0 0 0 0 0
528,159 0 0 0 0 528,159
178,524 70,020 0 70,020 0 248,544
706,683 70,020 0 70,020 0 776,703

(Tue May 12 1998 20:09 - ID#31868)
PrivateInvestor - maybe what you seek is here, I copied it from a post recently

Have a prowl through these few sites: - Yourdon - Y2K general info expert. - Y2K homepage - Gary North - Y2K general info expert. - Rick Cowles - Y2K Electric utilities expert. - Ed Yardini - World ecomomist Y2K expert. - Ed Yardini - World ecomomist Y2K expert - Texas Tech University

Daily press articles; - AFR articles

Links pages; - General Links - Electric Industry Links - very good selection. - Texas Tech University - Gov't & Uni. links - General links - General links - General links

(Tue May 12 1998 20:20 - ID#210114)
Markets Crash, Gold will crash
A day or so ago I suggested that gold will again tank. The main reason I thought this was because last year when the markets crashed, gold also crashed.

It appears the markets are again looking wobbly; if so it appears gold may wobble down with them.

We shall see.

(Tue May 12 1998 20:28 - ID#269191)
gold and Asia.

I think you may be correct in the short term about the gold price and a
renewal of the Asian downturn. However, I think the crisis will play
out somewhat differently this time. The last time Japan stayed afloat.
This time I think a liquidity crisis will develop in Japan which
will force the Japanese to liquidate those Treasuries they're holding.
If that does happen the Fed will be forced to buy them. This will
cause the U.S. money supply to explode. This could be very positve
for gold. The Japanese will not be able to bail themselves out because
of the weak yen.

(Tue May 12 1998 20:30 - ID#284255)
Good for a laugh;

Y2K probe: 2pc reply to stock exchange
Email Chatter;
Internet stocks Lycos and Excite both jumped over 10% in a single day, reaction to Yahoo's 18% gain on reported earnings of 8 cents a share. Current trailing P/E ratio= 877.

In just the past 10 trading days the number of shares of Lycos that have traded has exceeded the company's public shares outstanding by roughly 3.4 to one. Even if you allow for interdealer transactions, that's still an awful lot of volume. And Lycos has been one of the more subdued names.

By contrast , Yahoo! has seen it's float turn over fully seven times in the past 2 weeks. Excite's has been bought and sold five times over.

The all-champ in this regard, though, has to be Infoseek, whose volume over the past 10 days has topped its public capitalization by 25 to one. By our calculations, therefore, the typical new Infoseek shareholder these days held on to his stock for an average of TWO AND A HALF HOURS!

"Green Bay Packers" stock offering prospectus reads. "it is vertually impossible for anyone to realize a profit on a purchase of common stock or even to recoup the amount initially paid to acquire such common stock" ( courtesy U.S. News and Morningstar Investor ) K-Tel was so dead on some days, it didn't even trade. Yet the stock soared 7 to 67 in the past month on an announcement that it would begin marketing on the internet. As one analyst stated "you put 'com' behind it and they'll buy it. Not the President of K-Tel though... he just sold 86% of his shares before the announcement.

Above an ad in Investor's Business Daily: There's an old adage on Wall Street: Don't confuse brains with a bull market. To that add: Don't confuse an economic miracle with a liquidity bubble

The bubble has reached more grotesque proportions. If Wall Street doesn't crack. we believe a rate hike will beome imminent within the next 60 days. If 2nd largest economy in the world tumbles into a deflationary depression ( ala 1930's ) , it will have repercussions around the globe.
The Chief Investment Officer for Donaldson, Lufkin & Jenrette Investment Management spoke to a seminar for investors. He did not give the message the brokerage wanted conveyed or undoubtedly wasn't what investors wanted to hear.

"What scares me the most about this business is that many of the newcomers-who have not seen a major market decline-are going to feel this is the way it is. They're going to approach if from that point of view, and they're going to get clocked somewhere along the way. A lot of people my age who came into the business about the same time I did, committed suicide in the 1970's. They went from making a quarter of a million dollars a year to driving a cab. These are big-name people, professionals. They couldn't handle what happened between the 1950's and the very early 70's when the market went down. Between January 1973 and Nov 1974, the market was down 45 percent. A huge number of stocks were down as much as 80-85 percent. People lost faith in the market, lost faith in value. They said it could never happen.

Funds have been granted permission by the SEC to borrow between funds including money market funds. Many investors don't realize that their money market funds are subject to IOU's. So theoretically your fund may end up holding stocks that the manager didn't originally purchase.

(Tue May 12 1998 20:34 - ID#210114)
Perhaps you are right; we shall see. One thing of which I feel certain, if it does tank again, then that will be it. That will be a double bottom and from there we shall go up. Mine closures and physical shortages will drive the POG back up to the $US 350 region. I am planning to buy more physical if it does tank.

Wishing everybody luck, wealth and happiness. Live Long and Prosper.

(Tue May 12 1998 20:37 - ID#284255)
Millennium bug threat to power supplies
THE managing director of the Australian Stock Exchange, Richard Humphry, has warned that the Victorian electricity industry may be unable to fix the millennium bug computer problem on time.

He says there could be severe power shortages from January 2000 across the national grid.

(Tue May 12 1998 20:38 - ID#340459)
Silver moved up substantially...
Go PM's Go....

(Tue May 12 1998 20:43 - ID#230376)
japan tanking -121

(Tue May 12 1998 20:44 - ID#284255)
India software firms see no effect from N-tests
NEW DELHI, May 12 ( Reuters ) - India's computer software industry expects no adverse effects from possible economic sanctions linked to India's nuclear tests this week, the country's leading industry association said on Tuesday.

``U.S. companies are not doing charity to India by giving software orders,''

``There is a shortage of two million programmers in the U.S.,''

"They require us to solve the Y2K problem in time."

IT managers quit because of millennium
More than 10% of IT managers will quit their jobs by 2000.
"It is extraordinary how many changes and difficult projects are taking place at once. It must be hell out there for many IT managers."

(Tue May 12 1998 20:48 - ID#284255)
If the lights go out?
---This is a universal, simultaneous, common cause of failure. In the ultimate worst case scenario, every IT and microprocessor controlled system will fail or malfunction. What makes it more difficult is allowing for the almost infinite numbers of combinations of system failures: we may have gas, but not water, and in different parts of the country, some hospitals may have to close. We won't know what will fail until it does, so we need multiple contingency plans to cope with any combination of failure.
---These failures may be time-related: contingency plans have to take account of the fact that some systems may be down for a couple of days, and others for weeks or months.
---Unlike most emergencies, this is time-predictable. Some failure may occur before New Year's Eve in 1999, but it is definitely around the turn of the millennium that most contingency planning needs to be focused. ---Year 2000 failure is unique. We have never experienced anything like this, so millennium contingency plans at all levels, national infrastructure, corporate and personal, cannot be tested beforehand. There is no learning curve for year 2000 contingency planning.

(Tue May 12 1998 20:50 - ID#230376)
Is Nikkei gonna break 15000 tonight?

down 149 plus.

(Tue May 12 1998 20:51 - ID#34857)
[actually, I'm hoping you're right!]

HenryD [aka McCoy]

(Tue May 12 1998 21:03 - ID#284255)
Anonymous Reader Warns of Y2K Complacency in Upper Levels of Government
I have to ask that you keep my name and company confidential as I make my living in federal government sales.

I work with one of the Fortune 100 computer companies in the Y2K sales group. My job is to present analysis tools to Federal Government decision-makers. These tools are the first step in the remediation of the Y2K Problem as they identify software and hardware that is at risk.

In every presentation, we make the case for moving forward and starting the process now. I thought you might like a sampling of the responses we get from upper management in Federal Government Agencies.

"I won't be here after October 1999, so I don't care."

"We only support authorized software and hardware on our system. If someone has something that isn't authorized, that's their problem, even if it affects our network."

"This is more of a CYA ( California Youth Authority ) problem than an actual operation problem."

"When it becomes a crisis, then we'll start looking at it."

I am suggesting to all of our potential clients, workers and existing customers that they spend a goodly portion of the remaining 18 months devising and establishing manual procedures to get their jobs done after 1-1-2000. They will need them.
Good for gold in 2000?
You betcha

Good for civilization

(Tue May 12 1998 21:07 - ID#254112)
@tolerant1: Do you know about Morgan Silver Dollars ?
I agree with this what you said:
".... the Chinese are a wonderful and highly imaginative people. On the other hand the CHINESE MILITARY SUCKS!"
Which is by the way true for a lot of peoples and their military!

Do you have experience with Morgan Silver Dollars?

Today I received this offer from NATIONAL COLLECTORS MINT, INC.:
10 Morgan Silver Dollars ( INCL. s&h ) $206.00
20 - " - - " - $408.00
50 - " - - " - $999.00

The prospect says: Original US Gov't Morgan Silver Dollars. Condition is mostly brilliant uncirculated to extra fine. Silver content is .9 fine silver, totaling .77344 ozs.

Would this be a good buy?
I have never ever bought silver coins. Only gold so far.

Please let me know if this is a good offer.

Comments are highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Alberich the Dwarf

(Tue May 12 1998 21:09 - ID#255190)
No offense taken or intended. Aikido is an art very opposite boxing in substance and style. Alot of boxers here. Its not the only way to deal with conflict. Just using that as an alternative to what had been going on and sometimes happens here.

Anyway, have a great night.

(Tue May 12 1998 21:09 - ID#340459)
Did Silver go up a 25 cents and back down again briefly or the above quotes were wrong

(Tue May 12 1998 21:12 - ID#31868)
Alberich - please email me on the Morgans -

(Tue May 12 1998 21:16 - ID#300202)
Ur Monica/Bill Site reminds me of a community I visited on the East Coast
of Newfoundland called Come By Chance & of course the little village near
St John's called Dildo.

(Tue May 12 1998 21:17 - ID#208393)
@Midas_A - re: Silver Price rising
Alas, the programming bug struck again. I was surprised to see it report a higher price though. Hopes are dashed again by an errant line written written by a long-gone programmer who is raking in the money fixing Y2K problems created by other programmers. "....not with a bang, but with a plaintive Kitco whimper... "Hello, can anyone please tell me the REAL spot price of precious? Hello? Is there anybody out there?

(Tue May 12 1998 21:19 - ID#31868)
Alberich - until I get your mail here is something you might enjoy on Morgans

(Tue May 12 1998 21:19 - ID#255190)
The patient art of watching paint dry
by Tolerant1

( or How I spend my time waiting for gold and silver to regain their stature )

A practical guide for all gold and silver bugs. Filled with helpful hints and recipes. Includes pictures of the Wink Museum in sothern California. Great appendix of chat from Kitco. All the usual characters.

US$299.95 + s/h

(Tue May 12 1998 21:20 - ID#31868)
sharefin - gulp, to ya, still laughing
one more, gulp. Namaste'

(Tue May 12 1998 21:23 - ID#254112)
tolerant1: did you receive my e-mail?

(Tue May 12 1998 21:25 - ID#31868)
There already is a book on how to watch paint dry, I will see if I can dig it up.

(Tue May 12 1998 21:37 - ID#43460)
drying paint and other subjects
Thought I'd add to the excitement here tonight. Here's a link about noctilucent clouds. I don't know if any are gold colored.

(Tue May 12 1998 21:38 - ID#31868)
Not yet but Hotmail is running a little slow this evening.

(Tue May 12 1998 21:50 - ID#411259)
..... Clone wrote .....

"Palladium is definitely a disgrace to the entire precious metals community. It has absolutely no right to be as expensive as it is. Palladium more expensive than Gold? No way! Nothing stranger has ever happened or ever will happen. It is the most absurd thing I have ever heard - I refuse to acknowledge."

To this point:

Wait until this whorish piece of white trash tops platinum.

This will happen


(Tue May 12 1998 22:09 - ID#284255)
Hang Seng fallout - mom radioactive - but contagious
Hang Seng just opened down 245ts or 2.48%
Down to 9597

S Korea still plumeting - is there no end in sight.

Back to the enamel

(Tue May 12 1998 22:16 - ID#340302)
@ARDEN...back in town, then off to New York...
...a sudden jump in COMEX elible gold?

You see what happens when certain "individuals" stick their noses into COMEX matters.

Yet, a $75 million gold purchase that would wipe out the COMEX eligible inventory is NOT outside the realm of imagination, is it?

When it happens, do you think the eligible gold inventory will be so easily replaced?



(Tue May 12 1998 22:21 - ID#340302)
@JIMS...what will make gold move up?, not nuclear threats from India...not fears of Hong Kong Dollar devaluation...nothing like that. None of these exogenous, foreign events have any immediate effect on America.

Remember, the U.S. Dollar is the New Gold in today's world...

So, the only thing that can send gold up is anything that jolts the U.S. economy and hence, the U.S. buck...

...or anything that causes the world to perceive there are far too many U.S. Dollars floating around out there...

...or some gold market event that reveals the actual relative scarcity of global gold inventory.



(Tue May 12 1998 22:24 - ID#255151)
Y2K Discussion from 22:00 to 23:59 on Radio

On now on a local radio station. Pretty good discussion. This is what the Indianapolis audience is hearing. Can listen here--

(Tue May 12 1998 22:25 - ID#235378)
Gold may go down a bit more
I think gold in now completing a short term Inv Impulse ( start date around April 23 ) Wave 5 with a target around 296. Longer term should be UP.

(Tue May 12 1998 22:38 - ID#28961)

I agree, gold should hold above 293.00 This decline of the last couple of weeks should be minute wave "a" of minor wave B. Wave B should itself be a flat formation, bounded by the 295-312 area. Gold is seasonally weak going into June. By mid June or so the entire three wave formation should be complete allowing for wave C of ( b ) to reach the 340 minimum target area for Gold.

(Tue May 12 1998 22:41 - ID#248180)
"The Price of Gold is not as low as it seems,"
Monday May 11, 4:54 pm Eastern Time
NY precious metals end mostly lower, led by silver
NEW YORK, May 11 ( Reuters ) - COMEX and NYMEX precious metals futures ended mostly lower Monday, after a slide in silver prices overnight, but volumes were light.
``There didn't seem to be any news behind the silver price fall, it just seemed to be driven by funds taking profits on old long positions,'' Credit Lyonnais Rouse's New York chief bullion dealer, Scott Mehlman said.

COMEX July silver ended down 23.0 cents at $5.730 an ounce, after sliding to six week low at $5.725 an ounce intraday. Total COMEX silver volume was estimated at 16,000 lots.

In the bullion market spot silver ended quoted $5.73/76 an ounce early, compared to the London Monday fix at $5.7900 and the New York close Friday around $5.96/99.

From Monday the London bullion market returned to a five day delivery period, from the 15 day period arranged in mid-February to cope with the flows of silver into London caused by the purchase by US billionaire Warren Buffett of 129.7 million ounces of silver.

But traders noted large amounts of lending of silver from Middle East and Far Eastern sources in recent weeks, which has pushed the near months in the forward price curve back into contango.

And industry consultants CRU said in its latest report that Indian silver imports in the first quarter this year were down 84.3 pct at only 220 tonnes, versus imports of 1,400 tonnes in the first quarter of 1997, analysts noted.

Last year India imported 3,919 tonnes in the full year, a rise of 20.6 pct over 1996 imports.

Meanwhile, COMEX June gold ended up 50 cents at $301.20 an ounce, after trading a narrow $302.10-299.10 range.

Total COMEX gold volume was estimated at 23,000 lots.

Funds have also been taking profits on long positions in gold, traders said, as reflected by the sharp fall in open interest last week.

The net long position held by funds in gold fell to 5,231 lots as of May 5, from 12,591 lots on April 28, according to the latest CFTC Commitments of Traders data issued Friday night.

In the bullion market, spot gold ended quoted $300.10/60, compared to the London Monday afternoon fix at $298.90 and the New York close Friday at $299.60/10.

Implied lease rates for gold were little changed Monday at around 1.00 per annum for one month and 1.90 pct for 12 months.

In industry news, the Bank of Portugal said it had no immediate plan to sell any of its gold reserves.

Asked in an interview by the Saturday weekly paper Expresso whether it made sense to sell gold, the banks governor Antonio De Sousa said: ``The price of gold is not as low as it seems, because it is low in dollar terms, but not in terms of marks or escudos.''

He added: ``For this reason, and because of the return we are getting on gold -- some two to three percent -- which is superior to what we get on the ( Japanese ) yen, at this time it makes no sense to sell gold.''

Meanwhile, Terry Smeeton, who until he retired last month, was head of the Bank of England's foreign exchange department, said Monday ECB may hold 10 to 20 percent of its reserves in gold.

``I think it is clear that the ECB will definitely hold gold in its reserves, and it is now likely that 10 to 20 percent of those reserves will be held in gold,'' Smeeton told the Goldman Sach's Commodities Conference in New York.

The ECB is due to make a decision on the composition of its reserves sometime this summer.

European central banks currently hold about 13,000 tonnes of gold, about 38 percent of all world central bank gold holdings, but even after pooling some of their reserves to form the ECB reserves, about 12,000 tonnes of gold could be left in the hands of European central banks, analysts noted.

``ECB approval is going to be needed to allow individual European central banks to sell any more of their gold from after January 1, 1999, but even before then I think it is improbable that we will see any more European central bank gold sales this year, because of the risks to the EMU ( European Monetary Union ) this would entail,'' Smeeton said.

In the platinum group metals markets ( PGMs ) , NYMEX July platinum closed up $6.50 at $389.500 an ounce, while NYMEX June palladium ended up $3.70 at $301.60, though back months were lower.

Implied lease rates for palladium were steady at around 50 pct, after falling from over 200 pct last week.

Russia, which is the largest producer of palladium in the world, and the second largest producer of platinum, has not exported either metal so far this year, sending palladium prices soaring to all time highs last month around $390 an ounce.

(Tue May 12 1998 22:41 - ID#340302)
@ALL...the fight between DISNEY & LGB... a misguided battle between two gents who cannot see the forest for the is a S.African gold chauvinist while the other is a silver chauvinist.

Neither gent recognizes that strength in silver is strength in gold...and vice versa ( Have you ever noticed that most gold companies also mine silver? ) Strength in N.A. gold is strength in S.A. gold...and vice versa ( Have you ever noticed that many gold investors who own N.A. producers also own S.A. producers? ) .

So, they carry out their petty territorial fights like a couple of irascible male cats determined to show "who is boss."

Naturally, this revelatory post will set them off and probably result in at least temporary union AGAINST me.

Let 'em fly, fellas!




(Tue May 12 1998 22:42 - ID#254201)
Silver - Corn
If these numbers are hit consider it a position trade...this week buy July silver 5.10 - 4.90, buy July corn 2.32.

(Tue May 12 1998 22:43 - ID#22956)
Palladium 'jumping' Platinum


It will have to be well above 400 then.....cause Plat is now in overbought......YES.


It will rise now ( of course I have been saying this for a time, YES ) ?

OK the Lakers v. Sonics....

-ain...uh huh.

(Tue May 12 1998 22:44 - ID#31868)
Still no mail, but like I said hotmail is slow tonight.

Old Soldier
(Tue May 12 1998 22:52 - ID#185274)
Alberich, repost of cheapest way I know to buy junk silver. Fun too!!!
I have bought and sold junk silver on a small time basis for over 30 years. Good places to look for junk silver ( pre 1965 U.S. dimes, quarters and halves ) include pawn shops, flea markets, gun shows, and antique shows. People who sell at these places price junk silver in terms of how many times face value they want for the silver. A sample exchange:
You, "How close to spot can you get on those coins?"
Seller, "Well those are not really junk but I can let you have them for 8 times face."
You, "Well by my calculation with spot at $6.20 times .7, they are worth at most 4.3 times face."
Then commences the real haggling.
Sometimes you get an answer you really like, "Well I dont have a price in mind I got into them right. Make me an offer." In those cases I usually make and offer around spot times .6.

Detail on calculating ( example 10 each dimes, quarters and halves )
.10X10=$1.00 face value
.25X10=$2.50 face value
.50X10=$5.00 face value
Total $8.50 face value
Say spot silver at $6.20
$6.20X.7=4.34 times face for approximate value of silver per face value dollar.
$8.50X4.34=$36.89 value of silver in the coins.

For silver dollars us a multiplier of .77

It is to your advantage to make it known from the start that you intend to pay cash and if you have the resources that you intend to take all the seller has.
Following these guidelines, and doing some searching, you can find all the junk silver you want at or well under spot. Besides, I enjoy the looking and the haggling.
Sterling silver, gold bullion, and karat gold jewelry can be bought in similar fashion if you know the rules and the lingo.

(Tue May 12 1998 22:59 - ID#284255)
Listening to the radio show but the buffering is a pain.

BTW how many chips on US aircraft carriers.
Will they be operational?

The commenter doubts the US will have a defence force.

(Tue May 12 1998 23:04 - ID#255151)

Not sure about aircraft carriers. The interviewer, Greg Garrison is pretty cool. He is a local attorney who prosecuted and helped jail Mike Tyson for rape.

(Tue May 12 1998 23:04 - ID#210235)
@Old Soldier
That really sounds like fun. Haven't gone haggling in awhile. May try it at the local flea market IF the rain ever stops.

(Tue May 12 1998 23:05 - ID#255267)
Does anyone know what an April 99 gold contract with a stop limit at $305 would cost. I have never purchase a futures contract in metals. Thanks.

(Tue May 12 1998 23:11 - ID#426220)

Sharefin: You may watch the entire Asian Market Debacle in the slow-motion of Intra-Day Charts at the following URL. Naturally,
it will be necessary to delete the space in front of the word
"-eagle" before pasting the URL to your Internet locator:

(Tue May 12 1998 23:12 - ID#401237)
Here They Come

Tuesday May 12, 8:49 pm Eastern Time

Deutsche Bank offers ground-breaking German MBS

``We marketed the deal globally, and we've had a very good reaction. This is the first mark-denominated mortgage-backed security ever offered in the U.S., so it represented a new asset-class there,'' Adler said.

``Securitisation is a powerful portfolio management tool,'' she said. ``It allows you to grow your business without increasing the amount of capital deployed to support it.''

Chrysler now US Mortgages - "Securitisation" kind of catchy.



John B__A
(Tue May 12 1998 23:13 - ID#17470)
Are you now suggesting that silver may hit $5.10 - 4.90 short term? I thought you had estimated $5.50 as a buy point a couple of weeks ago when silver was well over $6.00. That was clearly a good call!

(Tue May 12 1998 23:17 - ID#411259)
..... Goldilocks .....

Did anybody notice the paragraph from the report posted below by Junior?

European central banks currently hold about 13,000 tonnes of gold, about 38 percent of all world central bank gold holdings, but even after pooling some of their reserves to form the ECB reserves, about 12,000 tonnes of gold could be left in the hands of European central banks, analysts noted. "ECB approval is going to be needed to allow individual European central banks to sell any more of their gold from after January 1, 1999, but even before then I think it is improbable that we will see any more European central bank gold sales this year, because of the risks to the EMU ( European Monetary Union ) this would entail,'' Smeeton said.


A couple of thoughts:

12K tons of gold.in 7 months nobody can sell it without approval

Still time to lock in some forward sales......

Still time to rape our fair yellow sister.......

Tempting morsel, yes?

It is sitting right there, on a gilded golden platter, like some supreme Bon Bon of nirvana.....

You would want to taste this morsel, yes?

Mmmmmmmmmm......... Moooooooorrrrrsselllllll.....

Uh Huh

Hoosier Gold Bug
(Tue May 12 1998 23:24 - ID#401116)
Basic Econ Question
How does one answer the simple question...
What percentage of the familiar one dollar bill is backed by gold?

Do we divide 'Currency in Circulation' or M1 or some other figure that is published by the Fed every Thursday by 265 million ounces ( the approx. number of ounces of gold that the US holds.. ) many ounces of silver do we still have in our defense stockpile and are we still selling it off to make numismatic coins along with silver eagles?

many thanks in advance....

btw....I miss ANOTHER and all his/her comments about the world situation....

(Tue May 12 1998 23:28 - ID#224149)
Your not alone -Call Cappy
Cappy cravengoldosky of the Canadian wing of the Salvation Army is pleased to announce to all Kitco posters that many beds are available. When you loose everything playing Gold and Silver their will always be a hot meal waiting for you. Remember when your broker closes your account you have a friend in Cappy. Away to help Cappy order some more Beds.

(Tue May 12 1998 23:29 - ID#284255)
I have seen where it is estimated that there are 10,000 chips in a Supertanker.

I bet that the carriers have 100 times that many.

Many thanks - Very good

(Tue May 12 1998 23:33 - ID#411259)
..... Smoke & Mirrors .....

Now is not the time look at the PGM market by its individual components.

Platinum shorts, acting as a surrogate for palladium trades, have brought us here.

A short squeeze on palladium coupled with short covering in platinum.

Will find them rolling directly into long platinum

This seems the only play for those stuck in the palladium market with a delivery date fast approaching, yes? The damn lease rates are too high to sell palladium, so it is being done like this.


It is

(Tue May 12 1998 23:35 - ID#413109)
May I Suggest
It might be better for all concerned if Little John & Big John take
their personal feud out of the public's eye and use e-mail to settle.
Noone ever wins these "cat fights" and everyone loses, not to mention
the amount of valuable space used for this.

Those watching silver- go to-
Mid-Am site and check out the weekly chartbook.
The daily charts and stochastics look like a turn is near,
but the weeklies look like the 500 level may be tested before
this correction is over. Chartists know that between 1/2 and 2/3
corrections of a leg, is normal, and that would take Si down to
around 500.

The longer term on XAU also appears to require a correction
to possibly the low seventies.

(Tue May 12 1998 23:38 - ID#254201)
John_B - You're right I had estimated 5.50. But the markets are dynamic and you better be ready to change your opinion daily or get killed. I had figured on some sort of rally in this time frame along with higher prices, we havn't seen any. And the down cycles havn't even taken hold yet. The 5.10-4.90 area should be a low risk entry point if it comes quickly.

(Tue May 12 1998 23:39 - ID#227238)
Creamed chips on toast. ....... SOS???
Sharefin: Estimates of total chip count should to be separated from the total number of chips that are "date sensitive". If your numbers reflect this, it would seem to be on the high side.

(Tue May 12 1998 23:42 - ID#401237)

RYO Earnings are up 60% -0.20 vs. -0.60
Every little bit counts these days.


(Tue May 12 1998 23:43 - ID#256250)
What could cause gold to rise? I take a quick look at the news and...
wonder how in the world the usdollar is not in the sewer already. The world is not stable politically, economically, or militarily. Gold is going up, it is probably going up already but we just can't see because orf the smoking mirrors and slight of hand of the FEB....


Tuesday May 12, 9:59 pm Eastern Time

FOCUS-Oil jumps as Saudis say not against more cuts

The source described the oil market as ``not bad.'' But he added: ``The possibility of cuts is there if prices do not improve.''

Asked whether there were any disagreements between OPEC and non-OPEC producers about the output issue, he said: ``Not really. There are more agreements
than disagreements.''

OPEC President Obeid bin Saif al-Nasseri of the United Arab Emirates said earlier he expected loud calls from oil producers for more output cuts unless crude
prices rise further.

``There will be loud voices asking for cuts,'' Nasseri told Reuters on the sidelines of the Damascus conference.

Tuesday May 12, 10:01 pm Eastern Time

Indonesian rupiah falls after student deaths

JAKARTA, May 13 ( Reuters ) - The Indonesian rupiah fell to 9,800 against the dollar in early morning trade on Wednesday after six students were killed in
anti-government protests on Tuesday, dealers said.

At around 0111 GMT, the Indonesian rupiah was trading at 9,700/9,800 against the dollar after falling as low as 9,800. It was at 9,250 in late trade on Tuesday,
before the deaths were reported. ``The rupiah fell this morning from Tuesday's level at around 9,200 against dollar on concerns over student deaths,'' a dealer said.


It seems to me the strange action in the long bond is caused because the Japanese are selling and the FED is buying.


Tuesday May 12, 9:09 pm Eastern Time

Japan 97/98 net foreign bond sales hit record--MOF

TOKYO, May 13 ( Reuters ) - Net sales of foreign bonds by Japanese investors, based on settlements, totalled a record 628.2 billion yen in the fiscal year that
ended on March 31, after net purchases of 8.7725 trillion yen in the previous fiscal year, the Ministry of Finance ( MOF ) said on Wednesday.

Tuesday May 12, 9:07 pm Eastern Time

Japan March foreign bond sales at 1.3 trln yen-MOF

TOKYO, May 13 ( Reuters ) - Net sales of foreign bonds by Japanese investors, based on settlements, totalled 1.3148 trillion yen in March after net purchases of
222.1 billion yen a month earlier, the Ministry of Finance ( MOF ) said on Wednesday.

Tuesday May 12, 8:51 pm Eastern Time

Sakakibara says yen fall a factor in Japan surplus

TOKYO, May 13 ( Reuters ) - Japan's Vice Finance Minister for International Affairs Eisuke Sakakibara said on Wednesday that the ``excessively weak yen'' was a
major factor in the growth of Japan's trade surplus.

"I think the United States understands this," he said.

Tuesday May 12, 10:21 pm Eastern Time

Mexico peso closes weak on soft stocks, U.S. rates

MEXICO CITY, May 12 ( Reuters ) - Mexico's peso closed weaker on Tuesday against the dollar, shadowing a slump in stocks due to a rally in U.S. Treasuries
and worries about Asian contagion in emerging markets, dealers and analysts said.

Tuesday May 12, 7:51 pm Eastern Time

El Nio ruins $1.15 bln in Ecuadorean agriculture

The minister said the damage could he higher still.

``We still haven't considered the destruction of crops in the province of Manabi,'' said Saltos.

Tuesday May 12, 7:38 pm Eastern Time

TALKING POINT-Balkans at EBRD fear Kosovo fallout

Tuesday May 12, 5:18 pm Eastern Time

Mexico's peso slips on Asia pressure

Tuesday May 12, 5:51 pm Eastern Time

Brazil shrs end off sharply on reform, Asia fears

Investors also were worried about political instability in Brazil and a possible uptick in U.S. interest rates, they said.

Political uncertainty after the deaths last month of two key allies of President Fernando Henrique Cardoso, advances by leftist parties in the wake of severe drought Brazil's impoverished Northeast and fears of a U.S. rate hike also dampened the mood Tuesday, they said.

Tuesday May 12, 3:14 pm Eastern Time

Indian nuclear pride turns to jitters over economy

Now does the FED tell us how it drains money from the market ( liquieity ) )


Tuesday May 12, 1:39 pm Eastern Time

Banco de Mexico drains 4.253 bln pesos

MEXICO CITY, May 12 ( Reuters ) - Banco de Mexico drained 4.253 billion pesos from the secondary market on Tuesday through a combination of direct sales of
paper and repurchase agreements, dealers said.

The Cetes sales were offered or assigned as follows:

So people think that it is important get into the copper business And you wonder why S.Korea ia heading south with the IMF's blessings.

Tuesday May 12, 12:44 pm Eastern Time

FOCUS - Buyers seen vying for Korea's LG Metals

By Camila Reed

LONDON, May 12 ( Reuters ) - South Korea's LG Metals ( 00179.KS ) , the world's fifth largest copper producer, is an attractive takeover target and reports that
international metal firms are eyeing the company make strategic sense, analysts said on Tuesday.

``This one of the lowest cost producers in the world and it is a great asset to get hold of,'' Kevin Norrish copper manager at consultancy company the Commodities
Research Unit told Reuters.

Tuesday May 12, 10:33 am Eastern Time

FOCUS-Five die as Indonesian protest violence rise


And finally... look at the world markets...



The USG stands almost alone in a sea of red. All others that use the usdollar are being burried... The day of the usdollar is growing to a close.


( sorry for the long post )


(Tue May 12 1998 23:49 - ID#340286)
APH and $4.90
APH - The $5.25-$5.50 level is such a strong support zone with a lot of congestion dating back from 94-95 that I think that if silver goes below it we will see much lower prices than $4.90-$5.10.

(Tue May 12 1998 23:50 - ID#31876)
A. Goose
Your long message, and every word of it, needed to be posted.
Each day is closer to the truth.

(Tue May 12 1998 23:51 - ID#410215)
..... Potato chips ..... Fish and Chips .....

How much are the black chips?



I'll call...... and raise


(Tue May 12 1998 23:56 - ID#224149)
Big Whales eating small fish yum yum yummy
What could cause Gold to rise? Maybe the Gold pushing slime balls actually buying the antiquated metal