Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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(Sat May 23 1998 00:03 - ID#410114)
gold bonds
because somebody has a contract ( debt instrument ) that says they have the right to be payed in gold. Except this time is the gov't central banks that have the note but not the gold. The exact reverse on the situation in 1934. It could be the gov't that gets screwed if someone defaults on thier obligation to pay the gold back.

I would just love to see a headline that some indivual was renging on his gold obligation because of his "private policy."

(Sat May 23 1998 00:09 - ID#153102)
I think you Canadians are screwed. Canadians who are not socialists are more pitiable than Americans who are not friends of government according to "public policy" ( i.e. Mob Rule ) .

I thought Caper's post about RCMP and Revenue Canada were on the trend line. But, what nobody seems to grasp in either America or Canada is that the true party of interest in revenue collection and most police work is The Bank.

(Sat May 23 1998 00:09 - ID#22956)
*Friday Commentary*

from our man on the inside ;- )



(Sat May 23 1998 00:14 - ID#284255)
Swing chart - from the bearfin
Just keeps on getting weaker.

European Indices

Email chatter
Can anyone see Clinton taking a gamble and playing the Y2K card? I mean, this guy is looking at impeachment, disgrace, and possible criminal prosecution. He might be desperate enough to precipitate a financial panic based on Y2K. Of course, he would try to shift blame for Y2K on the computer industry, banks, etc. And, he would try to be the hero in the fight against the Y2K problem. If I were Clinton, that is exactly what I'd do.

Anyone with a Mac know where the Kitco cookie is stored?
Aurator is on a witch hunt for it.

(Sat May 23 1998 00:18 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Dear brother John,

You know that I'm certified expert on different
Russian stuff, from stockpiles of PL and PA in a basement
of Kremlin to blondes and pickles...But, and I regret to
acknowledge, I have no opinion on Mr.Kirilenko, the new
Russian prime minister. All I can say that both his size and
weight do not impress me, you are right about your
characterization....He probably wears size S in comparison
with former prime minister who wears sizw XXL. I also
question new prime minister's drinking ability.

What it means? He was probably invited to play a role of
escape goat...and he will... probably within the next few

Mr.Chernomyrdin ( former prime minister ) will be back,
one way or the other.

I hope Junior may add his opinion, which I treasure
very much...

(Sat May 23 1998 00:18 - ID#93199)
Fidelity Select Gold Charts
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Charts:
Five Year Chart
120 market days Chart
30 market days Chart
10 days Hourly Chart

(Sat May 23 1998 00:27 - ID#290118)
Sharefin - read "Boy Clinton" it will scare you. Have any of the rest of you read it?
I read the book by the above name. And I've read more since.
He is the same kind of dirty, underhanded, conniving, self-serving, budding tyrant that Suharto is/was. Clinton is from a third-world country ( the parallels are striking ) . He is running the USG the same. I would not put it past him to sacrifice friends, relatives, comrades, allies and enemies alike AND THIS NATION or THE WHOLE WORLD - to further his purposes. He probably does have delusions of being secretary-general in the New World Order ( NWO ) .
I take talk of anti-christ and bibilical prophecies with a heaping teaspoon of salt - BUT - Clinton is really too close to either the Beast or the advance guard thereof - He scares me! Nothing can touch him!

(Sat May 23 1998 00:29 - ID#286230)
Just the end of a conversation with Gusto re: the modern American teenager. Good night

(Sat May 23 1998 00:34 - ID#284255)

(Sat May 23 1998 00:35 - ID#284255)
Have you ICQ on?

(Sat May 23 1998 00:43 - ID#284255)
Indonesia's new "reform" cabinet sworn in
Thai official sees short pause in Indonesia aid
IMF's Camdessus says time needed on Indonesia loan
Rubin says premature to reopen IMF-Indonesia talks
China has no plans to devalue - finance minister
Singapore's Lee blames economics for Suharto fall
S.Korea minister sees no need for G7 to steady yen

(Sat May 23 1998 00:46 - ID#290118)
Kitco cookies on Macs for any Mac users out there.
As a rule I have Netscape refusing all cookies. But to find out what is happening with Aurator I turned off Netscape's cookie cutter - but had it warn me before accepting. Twice Netscape warned me about cookies while making the last post. Both were supposed to be name "Kitco"somethings
But I found two items in the System Folder and Preferences Folder therein
that have the right date and time: "MagicCookie" and "Global History" spelled exactly that way. I'm going to try moving them elsewhere and cleaning out the cache folder. And I am going to again set Netscape to refuse cookies. If this software now expects to find these cookies I may not be back here 'till I recover. More news at 11.

(Sat May 23 1998 00:46 - ID#227238)
Common law.

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no
fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law."

Does the last portion of the final sentence form the basis for much of your point of view and subsequent commentary? You have begun a thread that I am unable to lay aside, for some reason.

(Sat May 23 1998 00:55 - ID#401460)

I am on Mac and Netscape Gold 3, with Cookie turned off - no problems. I have to refuse one or two cookies each time I post or submit.

I found that I have to accept them on Bank and Brokerage sites, that is how they ID people.

I have created a Ram Disk on the Desk top to hold my Cache.

I have to clean it out once in a while, trash the contents. When I shutdown it ask me to clear it, which is nice, keeps all of that stuff off the HardDrive.


(Sat May 23 1998 00:55 - ID#284255)
Fiend Commentary
Standing Room Only

Mutual Fund Trim Tabs ( which tracks mutual fund inflows ) reported this
week that May's equity mutual fund inflows are on a pace to receive only
about $4 billion net. This compares with the better than $18 billion
collected in April and the $21 billion received last May. In addition,
AMG reported that equity mutual funds only received less than half a
billion this week.

This is an ugly situation for the mutual fund industry because the Dow
has done reasonably well over the past several months. Despite their
full-court press type advertising, investors are not able ( or willing )
to step up their purchases of mutual fund shares.

It makes me wonder what the environment will be like when the market
really takes a tumble for an extended period. Investors are pretty much
used to 20% and 30% gains and a flat performance in their funds or
( gasp ) a decline would be a real slap in the face. Couple this with the
fact that mutual fund cash positions are at 20 year lows creates a
potentially explosive situation.

In my mind, the situation is analogous to an overcrowded theater. With the
play being the Bull Market, more and more patrons have slowly crowded
into the theater to watch and enjoy. The ticket salesmen could care less
that the standing room only conditions in the theater was creating a
dangerous situation because they were too busy selling tickets and making
big profits.

Everyone watching the play was confident of their ability to leave anytime
they wanted to. Everyone could clearly see the EXIT signs and the way
out clearly marked. They even saw a few of their friends leave from time
from time, but that was too bad because they ended up missing some great

As long as the play continued to entertain, the patrons would continue to
stay in the theater. The managers of the theater would do everything they
could to make the patrons comfortable including constant assurances of
how safe it was.

That is where we are right now. Everyone in the theater seems to believe
that they can get out at anytime which is not logically possible. A
few people at a time can leave, but not everyone at once. This has got
to be the theater manager's biggest fear because there wouldn't be
anything that he could do to stop it. Once the crowd makes a stampede
for the exit, they won't even be watching the play anymore.

(Sat May 23 1998 00:59 - ID#335190)
Mozel @ 00:09
Mozel, I would appreciate a definition of "SOCIALIST'S". I realize that socialism exists, as the stage of economic's, that exists between Capitalism ( Corporation control. ) and Communism. ( Mandarin Control )

Often the word socialism is used to identify a person in a bad light, by indicating such a person or point of view as socialist. You stated " Canadian's who are not socialists" I do not understand your statement.
( Canadian's that are informed, or not informed ? )

Remember ! To fight the "Cold War", it was expected of the "GOOD" Citizen, TO GET ALONG, ONE MUST GO ALONG. Like Russia EH !

Subversive actions, ( anti-establishment, anti-laws, anti-tax, anti-working poor, anti-corporation, etc. ) were those that fought against the war in Vietnam, ( Commie-Socialists ) 58 thousand young USofA citizen's died, Plus Canadian's, Australian's etc. and approx. 1 Million Vietnamese. Today, we make no mention of the "Cold War". Trade exists with Vietnam, by all FREE NATIONS ( Multinational Corporations ? ) .

All that death and destruction, and the enemy is still the same, Multinational Corporations, Central Banks, Economics, etc. etc.

Lest We Forget eh!

I agree with your position on Police - Revenue collection - Banks ( Corporations ) are served by such force and material, not the free people.

Thanks...Take Care

Steve in TO__A
(Sat May 23 1998 01:07 - ID#287337)
Rob - The "Trading with the Enemy Act" was
passed by Congress during World War 1, not World War 2. You're absolutely right that Roosevelt wanted to consolidate power over the American people- but he couldn't very well say that in his executive orders. The Trading with the Enemy Act was the legislation he referred to to give his actions an air of legitimacy, and it probably helped them stand up in court.

- Steve

(Sat May 23 1998 01:12 - ID#31868)
If Bill Clinton tried to kiss my ass he would have to stand on his grandmothers

(Sat May 23 1998 01:20 - ID#284255)
Avid chatter
morning all; many in HK left for the weekend with open short positions
top 5 japanese car makers reported 2 digits decline in april
T yield keep falling; its sell asia ( especially HK ) buy US& europe
hedge with gold under 300
japan loans to asia: BTM $14.8 bln, sumitomu $13.3, fuji $10.89, daiwa $2.43
others in yen: DKB 1.6 trln, sanwa 2.2 trln, tokai 959 bln
..and they wont get anything back

oh yes they will mina....they have an IOU:}
Japanese/Asian situation is very similar to that of the US back in the early 90's with the real estate bust ...... bailout time.... and Uncle Sam is gonna be the one who engineers it

anyway till we crash here still few days

Daxi again makin new highs ..... 3rd day in a row it's up strongly while the NA markets have languished..... even a bear like me is surprised at this outperformance..... "they" cannot ignore it today ...... will have to address the situation and go higher matter what cost!

but the japanese debts...

TOKYO ( Dow Jones ) -Many members of the Bank of Japan's policy board expressed the view when they met April 9 that further easing of interest rates could be an option, but that such a move should be considered with utmost prudence, according to the minutes of the meeting, which were released Friday. The minutes showed that board members agreed that an interest rate hike at this point would be very difficult to carry out because the downward pressure on the Japanese economy is strengthening. On the other hand, the effects on foreign exchange rates from easing monetary policy must also be weighed, the board agreed. Many have said that lowering Japanese interest rates further likely would drag the yen lower versus the dollar, as widening interest rate differentials between the U.S. and Japan encouraged capital outflows from Japan. "The bank needs to monitor the economic situation carefully so that any potential further easing could be carried out at the most effective time," the board agreed.

how can one lower below zero?:}

Japan Net External Assets Lead World In '97 At 124 Trln yen TOKYO ( Nikkei ) -Japan's net balance of external assets stood at 124.58 trillion yen at the end of 1997, up 20.5% year on year and the largest in the world for the seventh straight year, the Ministry of Finance reported Friday. The yen's depreciation was the main factor behind the rise, with another being active Japanese investment in foreign bonds due to low domestic interest rates. Japan's total external assets at the end of last year climbed 48.02 trillion yen to 355.73 trillion yen. Purchases of foreign bonds by banks grew sharply, particularly those of U.S. bonds, mainly Treasuries, due to the strong U.S. bond market. Direct foreign investment and loans by banks also rose as companies boosted fund transfers to overseas affiliates to mitigate the increased cost of raising funds abroad. Japanese companies had to pay additional interest on loans, called the Japan premium, due to a series of domestic financial institution failures last fall. Japan's total balance of external liabilities stood at 231.14 trillion yen, up 26.80 trillion yen from the previous year, on active purchasing of Japanese government bonds by overseas investors.

The Japanese carry trade is alive and well ////....borrow domestically at very low rates and lend to uncle sam at high rates.......this works well in fact by the time they are finished depreciating the JY the interest that they recieve abroad will wipe the entire debt!

the only thing that can screw it up would be if the JY actually began to apprecite rapidly
...that would give them a huge headache

The big problem is Rubin ....can he afford to justify the beggar thy neighbour routine and allow cheap Japanese and Asian products to enter the US....... Once again they will annihalate basic industries such as autos, steels, equip mfgs etc..... As long as the employment numbers indicate low unemployment I suppose these industries can be sacrificed ....when those unemployment numbers turn up it will be a different story

rubin doesnt care. the motor of the US economy is the NYSE.
america is the most successful exporter; american sell cheap stocks

take a peek at Japanese bond yeilds.... site link ..... yet another rate cut????? ....ain't too much to cut!!!!
a 10 year JGB yeilding 1.52% .....Yikkes .... almost pays to buy japanese stocks and wait 10 years:}
compare that with a 10 year US treasury yeilding 5.633% ...only a 4.1% differential over 10 years......
I hope you can all now understand the magnetic attraction of the yeild differentials between US & Japanese instruments
if'n it were not for this carry trade .... US bonds would probably be way lower ...maybe even below par
....and in the interests of the carry spread working effectively the JY depreciation works in it's favour magnifying it's effectiveness boosting the yeild yet even higher

heard Chase gonna merry Deutsche

...JY monthly still givin a big thumbs down but I suspect that it will be starting a longer term bottoming pattern shortly ....

Well, I see most of us here have survived &/or recovered from the bird shifting of earlier this week. ( Galaxy IV - Galaxy IIIR ) . Hum - we call 'em carpenter bees, but the holes here are almost exactly 9mm - looks like a drive-by shooting!

while yesterdays action especially the close was technically disappointing for the bulls they still have today to make it all A-OK again .... if it closes up today the bull will still be able to claim a minor victory yet once again
as they say "time to shift or get off the pot!"

- art bell will have gary north on in the next few daze on y2k - should be in your data base

there absolutely nothing bearish today ( except the fact stocks are worthless )

yeah but the fact that they are worthless is not new news to the market ....anyone with 1/2 a brain can tell you that.....problem is that most of the investing public don't got 1/2 a brain:}
the fact people have some 1/3 a brain is bullish

I think that you have hit the nail on the head... this whole market is based on the "monkey see monkey do syndrom"
....and the higher it goes the more folks must lie about the truth to justify the means
What we need is a ebola virus to take down a few monkeys
breadth,the true measurement of the overall market, has been in a down trend since early April.

(Sat May 23 1998 01:25 - ID#227238)
FDR et al.
Steve in TO: One must wonder if the rules of evidence were/are suspended on behalf of "executive orders". Sixteen years after cessation of hostilities and in the absence of a formal declaration of war, it would would seem implausible that a credible enemy could be found to exist. .... Merely another of the many wonders made possible under "a living consititution".

dung beetle
(Sat May 23 1998 01:25 - ID#272234)
Warren Buffet learned about PM's from father...

(Sat May 23 1998 01:27 - ID#220325)
Downunder and Rhody
Can you please tell me where to find the crash index?

Steve in TO__A
(Sat May 23 1998 01:30 - ID#287337)
Mozel - Canadians and Americans are
being put under pressure already, but I think worse is yet to come, and I'm not sure there will be anywhere to hide.

At the recent G8 meeting the finance ministers issued a statement about how "money laundering" was a worldwide problem that would require a worldwide financial authority to bring it under control. They also talked about how pressure would be brought to bear on small countries that "abuse their sovereignty" by maintaining bank secrecy, not levying income tax, and refusing to turn in expatriate investors to foreign tax authorities. They then tossed in the obligatory statement about how drug smugglers, those villains that the public loves to hate, are using these countries.

Ultimately, drug trafficking will be used as the excuse, IMHO, to try to squeeze out the use of cash in western countries, and once cash has been stigmatized anyone who uses unofficial cash like gold coins will be branded a public enemy who undermines the fight against crime. In the US, asset forfeiture will be used to make use of PM coins very risky- if you are caught, you could lose your life savings when all your financial assets are siezed because you are a "money launderer."

Tax haven countries will be targeted next- the massive influx of cash, which now by definition is used by money launderers, to these countries will be used as an excuse to violate their sovereignty. In particular, there could be a lot more "dirty tricks" used, like breaking into lawyers offices and bank offices, planting mole employees, &tc. in these countries.

- Steve

(Sat May 23 1998 01:33 - ID#342376)
@ snowbird
Crash index

dung beetle
(Sat May 23 1998 01:34 - ID#272234)
The original GOLDBUG...

(Sat May 23 1998 01:36 - ID#227238)
Steve in TO__A: You are correct and it is scary. The villification of average citizens, is growing in intensity. Come the big fall in the markets, it will likely become hair raising.

(Sat May 23 1998 01:36 - ID#153102)
Gosh, Earl, next thing you know you will read that "Collection of taxes is a common law action at debt" and really get interested in learning how they do what they do by law.

Then you might go read your deed and notice the attorney wrote it to say "for $10.00 and other consideration" and realize it was so done as not to fall within the ambit of the Seventh Amendment, to deny you the protection of the common law and the common law jury, in other words.

And then when you find out what Congress did to the rules of judicial procedure from the 1920's onward and consider the protection of that last part of the Seventh Amendment which has been abrogated, you may really be unable to let go of the thread. You may start gathering enough of it to make a hanging rope.

The foundation of freedom, of which I post, stands on more than the Seventh Amendment, but the guarantees in that Amendment were meant to be a bar to the destruction of the foundation.

(Sat May 23 1998 01:43 - ID#153102)
"Take not the counsel of your fears."

(Sat May 23 1998 01:44 - ID#248180)
Russia - ORIS & ALL
Oris I only had a few minutes to log onto Kitco and check the temperature and spiritual mood of all the valued posters. I do not have time now but will be pleased to commment on Russian Government in a couple of days.
Re: Cancer Cures: A few days ago I think you mentioned that your Mother was ill and suffering from a battle with cancer. I have been trying to get information for you about an Italian Doctor/Researcher that claims to have some cures for certain types of cancer. An Australian TV program called Witness screened on the Channel 7 Network in Australia ran the special segment a few weeks ago. As soon as I have contact details I will post the same. If other have heard of the Italian Doctor - please respond.
Oris all the best to you and our heartfelt thoughts, best wishes and prayers to God for your Mothers recovery.

(Sat May 23 1998 01:46 - ID#33024)
Gold: Elliot Waves analysis

Steve in TO__A
(Sat May 23 1998 01:47 - ID#287337)
Earl - FDR created an
enemy. He was elected as a "take charge & get things done" candidate by a terrified and bewildered public that widely believed Hoover had dawdled and not been decisive enough in trying to get the post-crash economy moving again.

Once elected, Roosevelt issued an executive order declaring that a state of National Emergency existed, and the public widely supported this position. During a state of national emergency the president essentially has wartime powers, and Roosevelt started doing all sorts of totalitarian things that the public never would have accepted during good economic times. It was no accident that fascist dictators rose to power all over the world during the 30's. When the economy gets seriously messed up, the public tosses their current leadership out and demands a "strongman" who will come in and take charge.

Interestingly, Roosevelt's executive order declaring a national emergency has been renewed by several presidents since then, and has been in force almost continuously since then. Clinton just renewed it again last year.

I wonder if the state of emergency orders are somehow behind the curious rise in the use of the military version of the flag in US courtrooms? Anyone know?

- Steve

(Sat May 23 1998 01:48 - ID#227238)
@Braiding the hemp.
Mozel: "10 bucks 'n other consideration". ...... Sumbich. Imprecision at carefully considered and artfully crafted points will guarantee a loss of consititutional protection and none is the wiser.

dung beetle
(Sat May 23 1998 01:52 - ID#272234)
A must see; will brighten your morning!
Yes, as billions sleep on the other side of the globe, the humble gold bug works feverishly to amass his golden orb and hurries it off to his secret cache as he knows THE DAY draws near...

(Sat May 23 1998 01:54 - ID#290118)
Cookies and Kitco - for Aurator, Highrise and other Mac users.
To Aurator and Highrise ( Highrise - meet us at the below NG )
I turned off Netscapes cookie cutter and signed on to K1.
Got two cookies - both in system folder, in the preferences folder, in the Netscape folder
one named MagicCookie
one named Global History
I then turned cookie refusal back on
MagicCookie went away by itself
Global History I moved out of the system folder.
Then I quit all apps and started over.
It made another copy of Global History
I'm still operating ok
Highrise posts on K1 that he has cookie refusal turned on
"I am on Mac and Netscape Gold 3, with Cookie turned off - no problems. I have to refuse one or two cookies each time I post or submit. I found that I have to accept them on Bank and Brokerage sites, that is how they ID people. I have created a Ram Disk on the Desk top to hold my Cache. I have to clean it out once in a while, trash the contents. When I shutdown it ask me to clear it, which is nice, keeps all of that stuff off the HardDrive."
Hmmm the Ram disk is a good idea - but only if you have lots of RAM - you don't.
I'll see if Highrise can reach you some way.
We can all interact at the netscape NUGgies forum since only Kitco is giving you trouble.
Then go to the Navigator & Communicator Macintosh area
then Navigator & Communicator for Macintosh
you end up in the netscape.macintosh newsgroup
( I have not yet figured out how to directly get to a newsgroup the first time if I only know its name )
I started a new header there called Cookies and Kitco
On my screen it is at the bottom.
See you there.
P.S. I'm posting this on K1 for Highrise too.

Steve in TO__A
(Sat May 23 1998 01:56 - ID#287337)
There was an article about the controversial Italian physician just last week in the Toronto Star. It seems that a group of open-minded physicians here in Toronto have invited him to come and demonstrate his treatment. Unfortunately I didn't pay much attention to the article at the time, and I can't even recall the man's name, but he will be in Toronto sometime soon, as I recall.

If I can find the article, or if some new ones come out, would you like me to post them?

- Steve

(Sat May 23 1998 01:56 - ID#227238)
Mozel: Fear of potential USG action is not ever a reason for modification of a course of action. It remains only as a source of concern for ultimate failure of a plan for self protection. That's all.

(Sat May 23 1998 02:00 - ID#153102)
That example is typical of what attorneys have done across the board. Never forget they work for The Bank. The whole damned government works for The Bank and has done prospectively since Lincoln and actually since FDR. Who is pulling the strings has just become progressively less concealed as they have tightened their grip on the victim's throat. In 1913 they came out into the open to enact the Federal Reserve Act. They are out in the open again on bank signature cards.

Steve in TO__A
(Sat May 23 1998 02:02 - ID#287337)
Earl -
You're right. I think it's important to be aware of these things, but never to stop trying to maintain your freedom. The knowledge will help you survive where others blunder into the traps set for them.

As Solomon said: "The wise man, looking down the road, anticipates the troubles ahead and steps aside out of harm's way, while the fool blunders on and falls into the trap!"

- Steve

(Sat May 23 1998 02:04 - ID#266105)
@I'm having paranormal excursions and it is time to pick some kelp

Wilbur the dung beetle. Excellent.

(Sat May 23 1998 02:04 - ID#286224)
@G-Spot (if you are still here ...)
I'm using AOL's version of MSIE 4.0 ( or 4.1 )

I know others have the same problem.
If the URL isn't too long I can use the non-frames options and view full screen. Otherwise my browser just sees the URL s one looong line and sets the screen margins *accordionly*

(Sat May 23 1998 02:08 - ID#153102)
Where is the Moses to lead the exodus of the people in this country who want freedom ? I'm ready to go. If we spent half as much energy getting together to migrate in concert as we do talking sense to people who don't give a damn, we would already be gone. My forebearers came here looking for freedom and if that stuff ain't allowed to grow here any more, why stay ?

(Sat May 23 1998 02:10 - ID#286224)
Please ... anyone....Tonnes or Tons?

Which is it the CBs sell?

(Sat May 23 1998 02:11 - ID#335190)
Steve in TO__A @ 01:30
"Drug Money" and "money laundering". The war on drugs is another "industry". The church, and do-gooder's, are being funded by drug lords, ( good marketing strategy ) as a result, the drug price is excessive, and the total money amounts are excessive.

Government, and the citizen, could stop the attack against freedom by considering that a drug, illegal or pharmaceutical, is just a drug. Then the pharmacist, can have door to door sales, and sell from a cart at sports events. Yes, and continue to be part of the under ground economy, or main stream economy, paying tax.

The war on drugs, is a positive tool for the authority over the youth, ( most illegal drugs consumed by the youth ) and the economic spin offs. Consider, courts, jail, counselling, police, court clerks, lawyer's, emergency medical care, insurance claims, illegal drug reports, all the experts on illegal drug use, mountains of paper work & clerks, etc.

Without illegal drug addict's, the economy would have to absorb these young persons, and the economy can not provide jobs, when you consider that a greater number of jobs would be lost, if our community did not have a war on drugs. Balance eh!

Mushrooms-R-Us.... Take Care.

(Sat May 23 1998 02:12 - ID#266105)
@screaming yellow zonkers/box seats at the abandoned drive-in

And this too bookmarked for once and future enjoyment.

dung beetle
(Sat May 23 1998 02:18 - ID#272234)
2BRO2B...Thanks, been lurking here since
before ZIVA got anthraxed months ago. I must say this is the best site on the whole web, period. As others before me, I sincerely appreciate the generous outpouring of knowledge from all posters here; except maybe those from that hepcat guy. Some of his were disgusting, even to a dung beetle. :^ )

(Sat May 23 1998 02:22 - ID#255151)
Junior, LSteve

Article on Italian physician--

(Sat May 23 1998 02:22 - ID#266105)
@dung beetle

Yes, Ziva. There are many amongst the evolving conflagrations,
er, congregations, who should be published in full.

(Sat May 23 1998 02:24 - ID#227238)
2BR02B?: I was in the San Juan's last weekend and discovered that WA state requires a license to pick kelp. ....... Kind of a packaged deal it comes with the shell fish license.

(Sat May 23 1998 02:33 - ID#153102)
@6Pak @Earl @Steve
The proper name for the industry you posted about is The Law-Enforcement Industry.

Socialism is the movement which aims to organize society using the force of law and government. You know, the tax and tell thy neighbor how to live his life crowd. It is a mass mental illness. In America, we have highly specialized socialists, otherwise known as Lifestyle Nazis. There 's a spearate 501 3c organization of them dedicated to prohibiting every pleasure God gave to mankind. I think they learned a lot on tourist trips to Canada, but maybe it was vice versa. The Brits carry the disease everywhere they go.

Earl Saw somebody paying with this stuff at the grocey. It looked more like Real Money than the greenbacks. It was food stamps. That's legal tender, too, you know.

Steve They are keeping the legal significance of martial flags in courtrooms a secret. All we know so far is what it is not. What it is, they won't tell.

dung beetle
(Sat May 23 1998 02:35 - ID#272234)
2BRO2B? Well, being new here, I must refrain from
wasting bandwidth. So I will sit back and gain wisdom from others here, for I am neither a wise man nor a fool. But, before I am seated, I must confess that YES, I TOO AM A KITCOHOLIC! May all our golden years be just that... :^ )

(Sat May 23 1998 02:36 - ID#255151)
The Economist's Take On Clinton Asian Policy Disaster

Good read--

(Sat May 23 1998 02:37 - ID#255151)
The Economist's Take On Clinton Asian Policy Disaster

Good read--

(Sat May 23 1998 02:37 - ID#227238)
Steve in TO__A: An accumulation of wisdom and the power and willingness to act on it are one thing. But, it presupposes a certain protection against the intervention of outside forces. Purely governmental.

The US continues to ignore the plain and simple language of the 4th Amendment regarding the right to be safe in property and papers. That language is not even a pale echo anymore. Confiscation without due process is a daily event. .......... It's what fuels all of those government auctions.

(Sat May 23 1998 02:48 - ID#256254)


Gold 32,000
Silver 6,500
H.G. Copper 5,500

Warehouse stocks:

Copper - high-grade cathodes ( in short tons )
point previous received withdrawn net chg total
Total 90,647 0 1,299 -1,299 89,348

-- ( Quoted in Troy Ounce )
Net. Adjust- Total
Chg. ment Today
0 0 36,995,812
-404,744 0 53,205,711
-404,774 0 90,201,523

COMEX Delivery Notices for Today

Prudential Securities Inc. 30 Aig Clearing Corporation 1
Fimat Futures Usa, Inc. 93 Prudential Securities Inc. 94
Carr Futures Usa, Inc. 10 Fimat Futures Usa, Inc. 20
E.D.&F. Man International 48 Cargill Investor Services 22
Refco, Inc. 13 Carr Futures Inc. 3
Klein & Co. Futures, Inc. 20 E.D.&F. Man International 2
Merrill Lynch Futures, Inc. 9 Gerald Metals, Inc. 24
Smith Barney Inc. 28 Credit Lyonnais Rouse 60
TOTAL 251 Klein & Co. Futures, Inc. 12
-- Merrill Lynch Futures, Inc. 1
-- Triland Usa Inc. 1
-- MG London Inc. 2
-- Spear, Leeds & Kellogg 9
-- TOTAL 251

Aig Clearing Corporation 6 Lind-Waldock & Company 1
Geldermann Inc. 1 The Bank of Nova Scotia 6


-- -- -- -- TOTAL DELIVERY NOTICES -- -- --
SO FAR FOR MAY 8,163 5,826 5

John Disney__A
(Sat May 23 1998 03:11 - ID#24135)
My favorite POSTERS ...
For Ray or Anyone ..
Im really not even SICK. If you want to know why
Im NOT in bullish mode, read jims 17:17 . He has
expressed things VERY clearly.
The other side of the coin is Cyclist just before
that .. following XAU action. I think Cyclist has been
very good at timing. We soon see how good he is at
I think the points 80.5 and 82.75 ( ?? ) will
tell the story .. a break of 80.5 and I will be glad
Im mainly out. Then we would go bottom fishing again.
to 280 ( with the $ where it is ) .. to 265 ( if the $
strengthens to 1.85 dmarks ) .. or 290 ish if the
$ continues weak.
A possible crazy situation now would be for the
gold/silver ratio to "wave form" and a new equal
down leg take us to 28 ( ?? ) . Gold at 280 would then put Ag
at 10. Silver calls might be a good play if you
could get the entry point right.

John Disney__A
(Sat May 23 1998 03:37 - ID#24135)
For Oris ..
Thanks for your comments on the little
guy. Also my very best wishes for your
mother. I am sure she can beat it.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Sat May 23 1998 03:44 - ID#384350)
@mozel, the promised land
I'm ready to join the exodus. But where to go?

I suppose if enough of us moved to some sparsely populated Island nation and became full-fledged citizens, we could take over the nation by popular vote, and install a Free Republic.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Sat May 23 1998 03:49 - ID#384350)
@mozel, 6pak et al, Capitalism and Usury
Capitalism cannot coexist with usury. Usury is a parasite eating away at the base of Capitalism and will eventually lead to its downfall. As more and more people have less and less due to Usury, Socialism rears its ugly head to force those with wealth or jobs to share the scraps that remain.

The preponderance of Global Socialism shows to what degree the System of Usury has attacked Capitalism.

BTW, the USG definition of a Communist country is one that does not allow itself nor its people to be raped and pillaged by International Banks and Transnational Companies.

The US is the Great Satan, a Bastion of Communism!

(Sat May 23 1998 03:56 - ID#413109)
More to look at from The Privateer
Further to the TA that many have made- the point and figure charts
at the Bill Buckler's site, shows the Austr $ chart of gold possibly
ready to break the trendline and, at the least fill the breakaway gap,
while the US$ chart has already broken the trendline and tested the under sid and may now go to test the bottom. This I believe further confirms
many posters thinking. Good calls.

John Disney__A
(Sat May 23 1998 03:57 - ID#24135)
De gol bug .. er bond
For mozel ..
Your point of possibility of US default on a gold
bond is good. It would be a certainty IF they could
get away with it.
Therefore .. The corresponding gold backing for any
such bond must be placed in the vaults of and under the
control of the BIS !!!!!. NOT BAD HEY ?.
The man who buys the bond has the right to either
the MONEY or the corresponding GOLD at maturity.
In the event of a default... HE GETS THE GOLD.
The US is really becoming a big problem .. The
whole shebang .. films TV press .. manipulation never
relents. Brains turn to mush under the presure.
Schools now even emphasize the importance of the
CONSENSUS view and have become brainwashing centers for
the young.
Fortunately, in RSA, the education system will have
collapsed within 5 years or so. The means of education
will become the NET !!!

(Sat May 23 1998 03:59 - ID#255151)
Kitcoites Running a Country?

Here is the likely result-- In honor of Groucho Marx, President of Freedonia.

(Sat May 23 1998 04:02 - ID#290118)
Exodus - to a New Nation,
conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal...
There are a few islands left - some uninhabited - some are UN Biosphere Reserves or Heritage Sites.
For that matter there are a few counties in the United States that are nearly so too.
Pick a state with few people or where a remote county would be left alone. - Wyoming or Idaho or Vermont or Maine or Michigan's UP.
Pick a county therein - and take over.
When the federal and state governments are too busy with their cities
they won't be much help to rural folk. The health of rural communities will be vital to their survival. Unfortunately most rural communities have been savaged by the fed & state gov'ts. They don't have a robust, responsible local government left that could assume local leadership. I know this. I live in such a county and town. Downside is that such inbred local governments have sold their soul to make a buck - graft & corruption and being owned by a dominant employer or rich family.
But if we outnumber them...
Establish our own banking and monetary system. An Island Economy - even if it is not physically an island.
It can be done.

(Sat May 23 1998 04:05 - ID#284255)
Critical Infrastructure: President's Naval Academy Address

President Clinton's May 22 address to the U.S. Naval Academy warned against our vulnerability to attacks on our infrastructure. What is at risk? He listed them: "our critical infrastructures --our power systems, water supplies, police, fire, and medical services, air traffic control, financial services, telephone systems, and computer networks." In short, everything that is presently threatened by the Millennium Bug.

These attacks are referred to as "cyber." They are almost always discussed in terms of deliberate threats. They are planned attacks.

What is rarely discussed is the reality of y2k and its effects on all computer-interlinked systems. The same kinds of failures that are listed in discussions of cyber warfare will be the effects of the millennium bug. The same kinds of military strategies for one will be applied to the other.

The threat is explained as military in nature. The response is also seen as military. The meaning should be clear: a military response to a civil breakdown is martial law.

The voters are being prepared to accept martial law, no later than January, 2000.

The government's goal is to create a new national order: the ever popular "business-government partnership." President Clinton announced his variation: "Because so many key components of our society are operated by the private sector, we must create a genuine public-private partnership to protect America in the 21st century."

There can be no partnership between business and civil government. The relationship is always hierarchical. The State has the legitimate power of violence; the State is on top. That is why we need business-government suspicion, not a partnership.

Every reason is used to push private citizens into a subordinate alliance with the State. The Year 2000 will be used to justify this move, but it will ultimately destroy it. The welfare/warfare State has less than two years to go. A warfare State may replace it in the cities until it runs out of resources, but the welfare State is doomed. The two missing digits are like two missing eyes.

* * * * * * * *

As we approach the 21st century, our foes have extended the fields of battle -- from physical space to cyberspace; from the world's vast bodies of water to the complex workings of our own human bodies. Rather than invading our beaches or launching bombers, these adversaries may attempt cyberattacks against our critical military systems and our economic base. Or they may deploy compact and relatively cheap weapons of mass destruction -- not just nuclear, but also chemical or biological, to use disease as a weapon of war. Sometimes the terrorists and criminals act alone. But increasingly, they are interconnected, and sometimes supported by hostile countries.

If our children are to grow up safe and free, we must approach these new 21st century threats with the same rigor and determination we applied to the toughest security challenges of this century. We are taking strong steps against these threats today. We've improved antiterrorism cooperation with other countries; tightened security for our troops, our diplomats, our air travelers; strengthened sanctions on nations that support terrorists; given our law enforcement agencies new tools. We broke up terrorist rings before they could attack New York's Holland Tunnel, the United Nations, and our airlines. We have captured and brought to justice many of the offenders.

But we must do more. Last week, I announced America's first comprehensive strategy to control international crime and bring criminals, terrorists and money launderers to justice. Today, I come before you to announce three new initiatives -- the first broadly directed at combatting terrorism; the other two addressing two potential threats from terrorists and hostile nations, attacks on our computer networks and other critical systems upon which our society depends, and attacks using biological weapons. On all of these efforts, we will need the help of the Navy and the Marines. Your service will be critical in combatting these new challenges.

To make these three initiatives work we must have the concerted efforts of a whole range of federal agencies -- from the Armed Forces to law enforcement to intelligence to public health. I am appointing a National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counterterrorism, to bring the full force of all our resources to bear swiftly and effectively.

First, we will use our new integrated approach to intensify the fight against all forms of terrorism -- to capture terrorists, no matter where they hide; to work with other nations to eliminate terrorist sanctuaries overseas; to respond rapidly and effectively to protect Americans from terrorism at home and abroad.

Second, we will launch a comprehensive plan to detect, deter, and defend against attacks on our critical infrastructures --our power systems, water supplies, police, fire, and medical services, air traffic control, financial services, telephone systems, and computer networks.

Just 15 years ago, these infrastructures -- some within government, some in the private sector -- were separate and distinct. Now, they are linked together over vast computer-electronic networks, greatly increasing our productivity, but also making us much more vulnerable to disruption. Three days ago, we saw the enormous impact of a single failed electronic link when a satellite malfunction disabled pagers, ATMs, credit card systems, and TV and radio networks all around the world. Beyond such accidents, intentional attacks against our critical systems already are underway. Hackers break into government and business computers. They can raid banks, run up credit card charges, extort money by threats to unleash computer viruses.

If we fail to take strong action, then terrorists, criminals and hostile regimes could invade and paralyze these vital systems, disrupting commerce, threatening health, weakening our capacity to function in a crisis. In response to these concerns, I established a commission chaired by Retired General Tom Marsh, to assist the vulnerability of our critical infrastructures. They returned with a pointed conclusion: our vulnerability, particularly to cyberattacks, is real and growing. And they made important recommendations that we will now implement to put us ahead of the danger curve.

We have the best trained, best equipped best prepared Armed Forces in history. But, as ever, we must be ready to fight the next war, not the last one. And our military, as strong as it is, cannot meet these challenges alone. Because so many key components of our society are operated by the private sector, we must create a genuine public-private partnership to protect America in the 21st century. Together, we can find and reduce the vulnerabilities to attack in all critical sectors, develop warning systems including a national center to alert us to attacks, increase our cooperation with friendly nations, and create the means to minimize damage and rapidly recover in the event attacks occur. We can -- and we must -- make these critical systems more secure, so that we can be more secure.


(Sat May 23 1998 04:06 - ID#386279)
Stephane translation--see URL for excellent graphs


Gold always tests on its strong zone of support 298-300$, and tends even to
make some excursions intraday on the level 296-297$. It especially will be
necessary to look at the weekly fence of yellow metal. If it is not maintained
with the top of its strong zone of support, it will be necessary to keep away
from the compartment. A fall on 285$ even low could intervene quickly. On
the other hand a rebound haussier and only going beyond haussier of 306$
would be trs positive for the ounce of gold, with objectives minimum of rise
with 320-330$. Neutral opinion on the evolution of metal with short
moyen/terme. Nevertheless opinion of prudence! Here are what I wrote the
last week and which still remains of topicality this week.

I go now developed three possible scenarios on the evolution future of gold
starting from the waves of Elliot ( to facilitate the comprehension of these
analyses, to press you on the second graph below ) :

Long-term BEAR the ounce of gold is carrying out a technical correction
hawser of the downward movement in five times ( 415$-278$ ) which take
place between the beginning of 1996 and the beginning of 1998. This
technical correction should last between 9 months and 2 years. It will take the
form of VAGUE A, B, C ( identical cf graph-color of waves on the graph to
facilitate the location ) . VAGUE A would be finished and would have broken
up into three vague pennies a1, b1, c1 ( 278$-314$ ) . VAGUE B would be in
hand, under vagueness a2 ( 314$-295$ ) would be finished. Under
b2 ( 298$-306$ vagueness? ) would be to come and should not exceed 306$.
Finally under vagueness c2 should bring back gold towards 285$, thus
completing VAGUE B. VAGUE C will have to break up into three vague
pennies a3, b3, c3 ( nonapparent on the graph ) . The objective haussier of this
wave will lie between 320$ and 340$. Aprs gold could set out again in a
movement bear into five

SCENARIO VERY BEAR A MEDIUM TERM gold would have carried
out a technical correction hawser of the downward movement in five times
( 415$-278$ ) which take place between the beginning of 1996 and the
beginning of 1998, limited only to under waves a1, b1, c1. This correcton
hawser of 1/4 of the great downward movement would be finished. A new
fall in five times should take place with ojectifs quite lower than 280$. This
scenario will be valid only if the gold established of new low.

begun a great upward movement in five waves. WAVE I and VAGUENESS
II would be finished ( in green on the graph ) . VAGUENESS III would be in
hand, gold would have carried out a first under vagueness 1 hawser ( not
represented on the graph ) and would currently be realizing under vagueness 2
of corrrection depression. This under vagueness 2 will not owe not enclosed
the week below 298$ ( even if excs bear in week can be possible below this level ) . This scenario
will be valid if gold passes by again quickly with the weekly top of 306$ ( en
fence ) . Then objectives of rise lain in the long term between 330 and 350$
would be released.

(Sat May 23 1998 04:35 - ID#284255)
Year 2000 Computing Crisis - GAO Reports and other GAO Publications
Ed Yardeni's latest report. ***MUST READ ARTICLE****

(Sat May 23 1998 04:59 - ID#243226)
@Nick(Translation French/English)
May I add a few translations for some words you let in French in
Stphane's study about forecasting gold ;

Haussier can be translated as bullish,trs as very,vague as wave,
aprs as after.

Best from France,


(Sat May 23 1998 04:59 - ID#253418)
Reify - Privateer's URL
Reify could you post the URL for the Privateer. I have accessed it before through KITCO but am having trouble going stright to it independantly. Thanks

(Sat May 23 1998 05:05 - ID#243226)
@jims(The Privateer URL)

The privateer URL :

(Sat May 23 1998 05:29 - ID#386279)
Merci buckets, mate.

(Sat May 23 1998 06:15 - ID#386279)
Bang For Your Buck
C'mon Cananks!!! Get more 'bang for your buck'. Many thanks to Bill Buckler--excellent as always.

"Savvy overseas ( and Australian ) investors in the local Gold sector love a big fall in the Aussie
Dollar. They know that when it turns up, they will get a double "bang for the buck". Gold stocks
will rise much faster than the underlying currency - and they will profit from both movements.
Right now, local Gold stocks have not corrected greatly on the local stock market. But measured
in terms of the $US and the key European currencies, they have fallen dramatically.

If the $A Gold price keeps rising from here, it will drag Gold stocks right along with it. If the $A
stops falling against the $US, then an $A Gold price rise will mean that the Gold price rises in
$US terms too. Again, the $A Gold price is signalling."


I follow Normandy ( NDY ) closely. It is a surrogate for the Aussie gold index ( and also the biggest component ) . Normandy is the 4th biggest Au mining company in the world. It has heavy forward sales at much higher prices. There is still heaps of blue sky in the shape of cross ownership of other Au miners. Normandy has been banging on the lower line of its uptrend all week. I bought heaps at 1.51 and sold at 1.58 on the same day. Then I bought them all back at 1.52 ( again on the uptrend line ) . They closed at 1.57 Friday. North Americans will have to multiply the price by xx on your exchange ( we charge you more to buy our gold shares ) . Harr harr!! When ( not if ) the Aussie $$ goes back up after these slight little Asian worries--you are going to gain on the gold shares and gain on the exchange rate as your almighty ( now ) US buck takes a swan dive. Any Cananks who like pm's and think the US$$ is going to tank should look at pm shares in other stable democracies ( don't want any of that 'sovereign country' risk, now do we ) .


Then again, if you want some Aussie ten-baggers-to-be, you should buy Anvil ( AVL ) , Tanganyika ( TGO ) , Mogul ( MGL ) , Laverton ( LVG ) , and Oxiana ( OXR ) . And for a real longshot Takoradi ( TKG ) will make you 20x your dough. END OF COMMERCIAL. We now return to your regular programming.

Cheers, N. the golden snake oil salesman.

PS The 'I told you so' is going to be very sweet a year from now.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Sat May 23 1998 06:21 - ID#384350)
Alternative Translation of Stephane's Commentary
( Sorry Nick@C, I couldn't resist )

Gold is still testing its strong support zone of $298-300,even though it has a tendency to deviate slightly lower on an intraday basis to $296-297. Keep a watchful eye on the weekly close of the yellow metal. If it doesn't hold above this strong support zone, expect a sharp drop to $285 or even lower. On the other hand, a small rise above $306 would be very encouraging, with a minimum target of $320-330. Outlook is neutral for the short to medium term. Nonetheless caution is advised! ( That was what I wrote last week and it is still valid this week )

I am now going to offer 3 possible interpretations for the course of gold based on elliott wave ( see charts below ) .

Scenario 1. ST Bearish MT Bullish LT Bearish

Gold is playing out the pattern of a corrective move upwards after the 5-wave down move ( $415-278 ) which took place from the beginning of 96 to the beginning of 98. This new move should take between 9 months to 2 years, and will take the form of an A,B,C bear market rally ( see bottom chart ) .

WAVE A is completed, being the recent move from $278-314, composed of 3 sub-waves a1,b1,c1.

We are currently in WAVE B. Sub-wave a2 from $314 to $295 is over; we are now in sub-wave b2 which should peak between 298 and 306, but not above 306. Then sub-wave c2 should bring gold down to $285, completing WAVE B.

WAVE C will then unfold in 3 sub-waves a3,b3,c3 higher to the $320-340 range, after which gold will begin a 5 wave down move to well below $280.

Scenario 2. MT Very Bearish

Gold has finished a bear market rally in the form of subwaves a1,b1,c1 against the 5 wave down move from $415-278. This upwards correction of 1/4 of the large down move is over. A new 5 wave down move is now taking place with an expected move well below $280. This scenario will be validated with a drop below the January low.

Scenario 3. MT Very Bullish

Gold is beginning a Big move up in 5 waves. WAVE I and WAVE II completed ( see green on chart ) . We should now be in WAVE III. Subwave 1 up finished; subwave 2, a corrective down move is now in course. This subwave 2 must not close on a weekly basis below $298 ( although it's possible for intraweek downmoves below this level ) . This scenario will be validated if gold quickly moves avove $306 weekly close. Then an eventual rise to $330-350 would be expected.

(Sat May 23 1998 06:32 - ID#386279)
G'day Gianni Dioro
Thanks, mate. I like your translation much better. I'll bet mine took a helluva lot less time though. Thanks to our temporarily deaf, blind and dumb mate ( Aurator ) , I've got a personal translator. Works for many languages but only gives a very rough copy. You still get the idea, though.

Best URL on the internet. Copy it!!! You will now be able to 'speak' many languages!!!

cheers, Nick.

(Sat May 23 1998 06:35 - ID#413109)
JIMS Sorry for the delay
Just returned from a walk-
Privateer's charts--

Gianni Dioro__A
(Sat May 23 1998 06:41 - ID#384350)
Nick@C, new translation
If you will see Bureaucrat in $5000 suit "fencing" gold on alley obscure, then indication is for central bank selling. No is good for gold!

If you will see Nipponese Businessman selling dollars against gold, then is trs Bullish for gold, non?

Gianni Dioro__A
(Sat May 23 1998 06:48 - ID#384350)
Translation of Dioro's Gold Commentary
En Franais:

Si vous verrez le bureaucrate dans le costume $5000 " clturant " l'or sur la ruelle obscure, alors l'indication est pour la vente de banque centrale. Aucun est bon pour l'or!

Si vous verrez l'homme d'affaires de Nipponese vendre des dollars contre l'or, alors les trs ttus est-ils pour l'or, non?

(Sat May 23 1998 06:49 - ID#386279)
You tango dinero??
Psssssssssst! Hey meeester!!! You like make muuuuuuuuuuuuuchos dineros?? You read Nick@ceeeeeeeeeeee seeeeeeeex fifteeeeeeeeeeen. If you doone like gold shares, you can have my motheeer. I guarantee she is a viiirgin!

(Sat May 23 1998 06:55 - ID#386279)
Gianni Diorro
Just stuck your 06:41 through my translator. For your eyes only!!!

En Franais:

Date: Repos mai 23 1998 06:41 Gianni Dioro__A ( Nick@C, nouvelle
traduction ) ID#384350: Si vous verrez le bureaucrate dans le costume $5000 "
clturant " l'or sur la ruelle obscure, alors l'indication est pour la vente de
banque centrale. Aucun est bon pour l'or!

Si vous verrez l'homme d'affaires de Nipponese vendre des dollars contre l'or,
alors les trs ttus est-ils pour l'or, non?

(Sat May 23 1998 06:58 - ID#386279)
Gianni Dioro
Now back through the translator again!!

In English:

Date: Sat May 23 1998 06:55 Nick@C>Nick@C ( Gianni Diorro ) ID#386279: Copyright
 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc All rights reserved Just stuck your 06:41 through
my translator. For your eyes only!!!

In French:

Date: Rested May 23 1998 06:41 Gianni Dioro__A ( Nick@C, new translation )
ID#384350: If you will see bureaucrate in costume $5000 " enclosing " gold on
the obscure lane, then the indication is for the sale of central bank. None is
good for gold!

If you will see the businessman Nipponese to sell dollars against gold, then is
the trs obstinate ones for gold, not?

(Sat May 23 1998 07:02 - ID#386279)
Gianni Dioro
I hope the wine you drink in La Belle France is half as good as the stuff I'm drinking. cheers, N.

John Disney__A
(Sat May 23 1998 07:09 - ID#24135)
the shopping basket ...
Its a little after noon. I just got back from shopping.
I normally do the shopping rather than my wife because
I enjoy it. I went to my favorite Italian fruit and veg
shop which is about a 3 minute drive from my house.
Ill tell you what I bought.
1. the weekend newspaper
2. 2 cabages
3. 750 gm carrots
4. bunch radishes
5. bunch turnips ( planning a soup )
6. 250 gm fresh mushrooms
7. 2 liters milk
8. loaf bread
9. I small tin tomato cocktail ( for cold fresh tomato
soup .. different soup )
10. 10 large bananas
11. box of small cocktail tomatoes for salad
12. 5 large starking red apples
13. 4 large Packham pears
14. roughly 6 kilos of tangerines that are in season
now and they just about give to you.

total cost 50 rands or a bit less than 10 $ US

On the way there had bought 2 boxes of tomatoes
( 15 in a box ) for less than one dollar each.

I think this is pretty competitive.

(Sat May 23 1998 07:15 - ID#238295)
A lot of the commentary here lately makes RJ look like am optimist. Most interesting from a contrarian perspective.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Sat May 23 1998 07:17 - ID#384350)
Nick@C, Translators
We shud get jobs at the United Nations as translators.

(Sat May 23 1998 07:31 - ID#386279)
Gianni Dioro
Whattya mean shud!! I am Camdessus' translator!! Maybe that's why people have been selling rather than buying gold!! Voulez vous se buyey some gold, senior..err..monsieur.. s'il vous plait ( or is that silver plate? ) .

Bully Beef
(Sat May 23 1998 07:40 - ID#259261)
Caper... Their is no privacy and when you use this medium be aware.
The open trade of my personal info without my knowledge between depts. and sold then to private enterprise really bothers me. Wouldn't Mozel be suprised to know that our Liberal party is the most extremely right wing federal government we have had since the Deif. I don't like the bad connotations he puts on socialism. I can be a capitalist and prosper under our government yet my neighbour who is down on his luck is comfortable enough that his kids aren't having to steal and sell drugs to get a pair of sneakers. I agree our taxes are high... but I don't think the US model will work in our country. The meanness in government in our country is starting to show. Look at how they dealt with hepit C victims.I still firmly believe we can still steer this country around when it looses touch with its populace. The US is so big that as a citizen you are completely overwhelmed. Stay and change. Never run away. Well sorry for running on but I work weekends. Gidday.

(Sat May 23 1998 07:49 - ID#30116)
Executive Orders and such ( a limited search..) will get you to a search engine to look for EOs by number or phrase.

(Sat May 23 1998 07:55 - ID#30116)
'Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we first pratice to deceive.'
EO# 12834 is kind of funny in retrospect. "ETHICS COMMITMENTS BY EXECUTIVE BRANCH APPOINTEES", as Homer would say, "DOOOOOOOH!" :- ) )

(Sat May 23 1998 08:29 - ID#300202)
@Bully Beef-In Line With Ur Thinking
Am well aware of the sale/trad of personal info from Gov't Depts. Within
one week of incorporating a new company of which only my lawyer/Prov
Govt & myself were aware of-I recieved advertising solicitations. I
trust my lawyer in his discreteness & he is a personal friend. That only
leaves one who cud have released pertinent data on my company. No-we shud
never leave & we most do our small part in making people aware, however,
I fear that we are slowly albeit accelerating faster towards becoming a part of Fortress America if we are not already in principle a part of
it as pre-determined. Cannot put my finger on it, but I know it. Be
aware that there is an American Military establishment in upstate N.Y. &
south of P.Q. that is dedicated to the takeover of Canada if needed.
IMHO, if the Soviets cud take over Europe in 48hrs, they cud take over
Canada simply by sending us a fax. However, these measures wud not be necessary, as I believe we are already bought & paid for. Our lack of sufficient military resources are a good example. On a world wide scale,
we are rated second from the bottom-just above Iceland.

(Sat May 23 1998 08:44 - ID#413109)
Why should I be the only one confused
Check out the gold bullion and silver dailies with Stochastics -
Compare these to the XAU and individual gold stock charts, The metals
look ready to head up while the stocks and stochastics relating to them
look negative. Interesting aye?

(Sat May 23 1998 08:54 - ID#410114)
Rules of evidence
Earl ( FDR et al. ) ID#227238:
Steve in TO: One must wonder if the rules of evidence were/are suspended on behalf of
"executive orders".

The gov't's actions are that of an organization that doesn't even know acknowledge they exist.

When I was a kid, my father pointed out various signs ( municipal gov't )
that were posted. The particlar he commented on was, "Hunting Permitted." He said that prior to the 1930's there weren't signs telling you want the gov't allowed; only signs of what was prohibited. In other words, a man didn't need to have gov't permission to engage in a activity.

Unless that specific action was prohibited, the gov't had no comment on it. A man would not be committing an offense by committing any activity unless proscribed by law.

(Sat May 23 1998 08:54 - ID#300202)
Bully Beef-One More Kick At The Cat
There is no war on drugs. It's being allowed to take it's course. Only
smash & grab investigations. Citizen tip offs, Canada Customs alerts etc.
Then presented to the press as a "after many months of extensive investigating". Airbus was not bungled-it was controlled, Air India
disaster-meme chose. Most investigations of such nature are CSIS controlled via Fed Gov't with CIA in the background pulling strings. What
effect can a three man unit drug squad have in an area that is rampant with drugs in a population of 200,000 people. Half the time, they are
doing drug presentations. Nuff said.

(Sat May 23 1998 08:59 - ID#410114)
gold bonds
I learned something.

Steve in TO__A ( Rob - The "Trading with the Enemy Act" was ) ID#287337:
passed by Congress during World War 1, not World War 2. You're absolutely right that
Roosevelt wanted to consolidate power over the American people- but he couldn't very well say
that in his executive orders. The Trading with the Enemy Act was the legislation he referred to
to give his actions an air of legitimacy, and it probably helped them stand up in court.

- Steve

(Sat May 23 1998 09:04 - ID#410114)
Squirrl & Cinton
Did the book "Boy clinton" have mention what clinton's activities were when he visited the Soviet Union during his college days? I know that that while is was attending Oxford or Cambridge he engaged in Anti-US protests. Did he continue with that activity while in the Soviet Union?

Steve - Perth__A
(Sat May 23 1998 09:22 - ID#284170)
Larouche analysis
Some of the more factual musings of Larouche crowd 21st May 98
( radio broadcast )

The Asian Contagion Spreads to Russia -

EIR: Before the break, we were discussing the chaos in Indonesia. Jeff, there's some who way that Russia will be the next victim -- it's stock market is in precipitous collapse, it's having difficulty selling government bonds, even at huge interest rates. What's going on there?

JEFF STEINBERG: At the very beginning of the year, Lyndon LaRouche had said, look to Russia. Russia, some time during the first half of 1998 is going to explode, and this is gonna bring the entire systemic crisis to another threshhold, another major crisis point. In February, we were concerned that the debts due on the Russian state bonds -- they're called GKOs -- that had been issued in the second half of 1997, might be the trigger-point. These were bonds that were paying out at rates of 25 to 35% interest. There was a certain infusion of money in February, both from the IMF and from the U.S., and from other quarters, to postpone that crisis, but it was really just simply a short-term postponement, and what we've seen in the past week are what I think are the early signs of a full-scale financial and social crisis hitting in Russia at a very rapid pace. Remember, in the case of Indonesia, we have the financial and monetary turmoil playing out over a period of months last year, and then, with the implementation of the IMF conditionalities at the beginning of this month, things exploded. In the case of Russia, you've got a telescoping of both of those processes going on simultaneously, and it's not surprising, because we're moving deeper into the systemic crisis, and we're gonna tend to see timeframes shrinking very rapidly.

Now, what happened in the past week in Russia, to just summarize it briefly: Last week the Russian stock market went into a precipitous collapse. It lost 15% of its entire value in one week of trading. The market, since the beginning of the year, has lost 50% of its entire value, and I think that's usually a pretty good indication that people are pulling their money out, and you've got a flight-capital phenomenon beginning in Russia.

The second indication of that same phenomenon, is that last week the Russian government attempted to issue another GKO bond, and these were two-year bonds, and they were offering 36% interest rates on these bonds, and they got no takers, and the signifcance of that is that international investors are saying, we have no confidence that the situation in Russia is going to improve in any way, shape, or form in the next two year period. In fact, we think it's a bad bet to assume anything about the Russian situation in two years.

So, the Russian government, early this week, announced that they were discontinuing the two-year GKOs, and went, simply with six- and twelve-month bond issues. Remember, these are the equivalent of Russia's Treasury bonds, these are like U.S. Treasury bonds, except issued by the Russian government, formerly, the second leading superpower on this planet, just a half-a-decade ago! So it's an extraordinary situation, even at that level.

To sell the six- and twelve-month bonds, the Russian Treasury had to be issuing interest rates of between 44 and 45%. Now, at the same time that this is going on, you've got a miners' strike, coal miners' strike that is showing signs of militancy that we've been expecting to see for several years, but up until this point, have not yet seen. In the Kuzbass region of central Siberia, coal miners have shut down the Trans-Siberian railroad and the other somewhat more southerly major rail trunkline coming into the area. The governor of the province, in the middle of this Kuzbass mining region, was forced to declare a state of emergency, because there's been a cutoff of all flow of goods into the area. You've got further to the east, university professors, scientists carrying out protests and shutting down other sections of the Trans-Siberian railroad. The news this morning, is, that 30,000 teachers and students showed up to demonstrate in front of the education ministry because there are widespread rumors that there are going to be 200,000 state-sector layoffs, largely affecting the educational and social-services systems of Russia.

So, this is a full-scale crisis.

This morning, President Yeltsin convened an emergency meeting of his Prime Minister Kiriyenko, and the heads of the upper and lower houses of the Russian Parliament, early this week announced that they're going to be pressing for impeachment of President Yeltsin, some time in the next week. So you've got a political, economic and monetary crisis all playing out at the same time. And again, we're talking about Russia, a country that still has the second largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world, a country I might add, that is a crucial bridge between Europe and Asia, that's essential to any kind of stability across this entire Eurasian landmass. So, this is the spreading of the Asia contagion in a way that really does show that the crisis is global, it's systemic, and can't be solved by piecemeal, bandaid solutions.

- No Concrete Results from G-8 Meeting -

EIR: Jeff, the Group of 8 industrialized nations met in Birmingham, England about ten days ago. Were there any results from that meeting?

JEFF STEINBERG: Well, not concrete results. Some useful things occurred in the course of the discussion, and in that sense, it represented a continuation of the dialogue that took place at the Group of 22 meeting in Washington in the middle of April. What's now happened in the intervening month between the G-22 meeting and the G-8 heads of state summit is that, as LaRouche predicted all along, the situation has gone from bad to worse. We are now in the second phase of the Asia crisis, which is, as I've said repeatedly, not an Asia crisis, but it is a global crisis, and so, the behind-the-scenes discussions among the heads of state did very much take up the question of short-term capital flows, which is the polite banker's word for these hedge funds carrying out currency speculative assaults against countries all over the globe at their whim. Nothing concrete came out of it, and in a sense, we knew that nothing concrete by way of policy was going to come out of it, there's not particularly a great deal of unity of policy outlook among the whole Group of 8. Russia, of course, has now been finally fully incorporated as a permanent standing member, so I guess this means the Group of 7 no longer exists. Look at the range of countries that you've got. They're all facing different elements of the same, exact global financial and monetary crisis.

Russia, we discussed earlier, is probably now up there on the runway, ready to take off and be in the throes of full-scale financial, monetary, and social explosion in the immediate hours, and day and weeks ahead.

In the U.S., it's widely acknowledged that the financial bubble is unsustainable. You've got the paradoxical situation of this crazy stock market bubble continuing to rise at the point the government is issuing statistics showing that the balance of trade deficit has once again skyrocketed. The figures for the month of March are $13 billion. We are losing our trade balance both in Asia, with Germany, with other parts of the world. So, it's a mess, and everybody realizes that before the end of this year, the U.S. economy is going to be clobbered as a result of the global breakdown in physical production, trade, currency stability, and all the rest. So, these issues were discussed and, in a sense, perhaps, we have only a negative indication of the intensity of those discussions behind the scenes. The head of the Bundesbank, Tietmeyer, the German central bank, a few days after the G-8 meeting, in a speech at a gathering of international bankers in Rome, Italy, went into a ludicrous defense of the IMF and the present global financial and monetary superstructure, and in the course of defending the system, and saying it merely needs reform, he did come out and say that there are people pushing all sorts of radical solutions that are getting a lot of discussion attention. Some people say we need a global central bank; other people say we have to have a new Bretton Woods system. So, I think this is an indication that a level of seriousness in discussion is playing out.

By the same token, I was very much struck by a front-page editorial that appeared earlier this week in La Repubblica, which is a major Italian daily newspaper, owned by the Agnelli interests of Fiat; these are some of the leading financial oligarchical interests in Italy. What they basically said is, that the IMF is responsible for the second phase of the crisis collapse in Indonesia. They noted that the entire IMF delegation snuck out of Jakarta under the cover of darkness, got onto a chartered plane that was waiting at the airport to whisk them to safety, and that they were responsible for at least this second phase of the Asia crisis. Now, what La Repubblica said in the editorial, is that their grave concern -- and this clearly reflects thinking beyond just simply Gianni Agnelli. Their grave concern is that just as these kinds of economic catastrophes brought about two European wars in the 20th Century that became world wars, so too, the crisis in Asia represents the greatest threat of world wars beginning in Asia in the early years of the 21st Century.

Now, I don't very often agree with Gianni Agnelli, but in this case, he happens to be absolutely right, and if there's some elements within the international financial establishment that are waking up to the fact that we are really playing with fire -- what LaRouche has called a new Dark Age, that's going to last for several generations -- then perhaps it's not too late to get some of these people thinking about the kinds of measures that Tietmeyer denounced as being "too radical"; like the LaRouche New Bretton Woods proposal. The G-8 meeting -- and by the way, the La Repubblica editorial counterposed the failure to take concrete action at the G-8 meeting with the magnitude of the crisis as demonstrated by the Indonesia situation in particular, as a real measure of failure of global leadership. So, here again, the question of LaRouche, whether it's the specifics of the frame-up and the exoneration, or it's the fact that LaRouche's exoneration is aimed at putting him in the position to walk into the White House front door, and discuss openly how to implement this New Bretton Woods policy -- which, after all, he is the architect of -- all of these issues are really coming to a head right now.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Sat May 23 1998 09:27 - ID#384350)
Canada & Hong Kong
Because western media scaremongered the Hong Kong people about big bad China, many HK nationals acquired residence in Canada. When they soon discovered to their amazement and anger, that Canada was more socialist than China, they started moving back to HK.

(Sat May 23 1998 09:27 - ID#113316)
NOTICE TO ALL. On Friday I leveraged all of my precious metals holdings to the hilt and bought HL, CDE and 1000 oz. silver bars. Will research over the weekend and pick up one or two gold mining cos. at the opening on Tuesday.

I expect US ( followed by European ) equity markets to decline over next few weeks ( perhaps significantly ) , dollar to sell off, and inflation as well as interest rates to rise. Silver to rise back to the $6 or more area, and gold to break out to the $320 to $330 area.

This is what makes sense to me. I believe there is little downside risk and great upside potential. The risk/reward ratio is favorable.

(Sat May 23 1998 09:42 - ID#411149)
SILVERFOX-Bless you, I did the samething. Now we gona be RICH and
must have an understandin. With my money I issa gona BUY everything
west of the Mississippe and you can have everything EASTY. I also
want Africa.

Tally Ho

Gianni Dioro__A
(Sat May 23 1998 09:46 - ID#384350)
Note on Canada & HK
I am basing my comments on an article I read in the Monitor, saying that HK nationals resident in Canada were outraged by Canadian enactment of a law demanding that Canadian residents must declare foreign holdings. The article said that HK nationals resident in Canada were disillusioned of the high taxes and socialist nature of Canada and many were returning to Hong Kong.

(Sat May 23 1998 09:49 - ID#153102)
Clinton has been wise to this Y2K problem longer than anybody on Kitco. You can infer from his speech to the boy-Farraguts that he intends to use this occasion to really run the country the way it ought to be run. A public-private partnership means everybody is working for the government which is itself dedicated to collecting usury for The Bank. The average sports fan is going to believe 'mericuh is under attack when Y2K starts interfering with his game watching. Another segment of the better informed will know the true cause , but support the government's "response" as being "best for society". Probably during the "crisis" everyone will be getting all their news over the radio in fireside chats just like during FDR's glory days. One Voice; One View; One People. If the phrase 'five year plan' doesn't eventually re-appear, it will surprise me.

If you think it can't be pulled off, I think you are blind. I'm looking at a photo of the OKC fed building. Federal apparatchks blew it up for Clinton. The evidence is undeniable. It's physical evidence for crying out loud. But, the bottom line is they got away with it. They got "anti-terrorist" legislation enacted. They got the power. Read Clinton's speech to the Navy cadets again. He's got the legal cover; he's got the playbook written; he's setting up.

I just have to laugh at the dialogue between Bully Beef and Caper and Selby's PC twitters. Canadians are screwed, screwed, screwed. Caper says there is no war on drugs. I guess the casualties in American families whose males are in the federal gulag don't count. I like that phrase "meanness in government". Just what kind of people do you suppose it requires to intimidate people into coughing up for free brain surgery for all and conforming to PC ? Public servants ? If you want to see the future for these so-called Western Demoncracies, look at Russia. You know, Stalin did a lot for the underprivileged and exploited there. And opinion was pretty uniform, too.

I figure about 2% of the adult American population truly does not want to be civilian soldiers for socialism. The remainder are either socialist activists or Frostriches. Even supposedly smart people who might even vote Republican just cannot let go of Social Security "because I paid into it." They just don't get it that every time you use your social security number you are declaring your intent to go on welfare. The Bank owns them. They have delusions of Independence. But, the judge that will judge them on behalf of The Bank has no such delusions.

If there is anything in this world that utterly defies logic, it is American military people and Canadian socialists buying gold.

Throughout nature, if you did a poll of parasites, I'm pretty sure they would all agree their hosts are doing fine. The funny thing is nobody in government or retired from government feels like a parasite. But, boy, look at the reaction when the host tries to reject them.

Squirrel, there is no way they are going to leave you alone on this continent. Following your plan would just create a sweet spot which would attract informants and media propaganda opportunists like honey is said to attract bears. Well, then the sweet spot would become a hot spot attracting the living dead in law-enforcement looking for another stripe.

Exodus means getting out. Believe me, they won't miss us.

(Sat May 23 1998 10:00 - ID#411149)
makin money
John Disney and etal-there ain't no way I can see fiddle de fartin
around with this minute to minute stuff and make any significant
amount of money. My chartist is bearish for the week, so what, but
he says the direction is UP. Buy a boat load of highly leveraged
stock put in stoploss and go fishin. Come back and own the place or
do another plan.

Date: Fri May 22 1998 17:17
jims ( ) ID#252391:
Copyright  1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
These charts suggest that gold stocks are at an important juncture. They

have declined from a healthy rally off a base. The XAU has come down
the 90's and in the last week has painted itself into a trading range
with 82.50 at the high and 80.50 at the bottom. A break of the 80.50
level would result in a cascade into the high or mid 70's with support
where the red line or moving average is. Given the fact that the XAU is
below that red line moving average, below its 200 day moving average
all moving averages going down, this support point at 81 on the XAU is
viewed by myself as very fragile.

The further erosion of Platinum today, the down in silver, the
inability of gold to rally two days in a row, the strong bonds and no
counter buying developing in the Gold stocks as the DOW falls, all lead
me to the conclusion that the weight of the evidence is on a continuation

of the downward move in the metals and the metal mining stocks.

I am concerned that a weak Tuesday could see Gold down to 296,
silver pulling out $5, copper breaking to new lows and on and on. There

seems every good fundlemental reason to own gold silver and mining
shares, but the technicals at this point are clear. We are going lower,
maybe sharply lower, probably soon. Something on the fundlemental
happen over the weekend to jump the metals - certainly there are

Watch 82.50. If the XAU can close above 82.50 I'll reverse my opinion
slightly bullish from bearish. Right now, however, dispite my
fundlemental view the metals are great values the sellers outweight the

5 minute chart of XAU ( last 5 trading days )$XAU.X&time_period=5-minute%20Bars&bars=420?wstype=480%20x%20360%20GIF&chart_type=Close%20Only&colors=Black%25%252C%20Green%20on%20Transparent&vol=Volume&study=Exponential%20moving%20average&ma_period=50&key=

Daily Chart ( Friday's activity not plotted )$XAU.X&time_period=Daily&bars=100?wstype=480%20x%20360%20GIF&chart_type=Close%20Only&colors=Black%25%252C%20Green%20on%20Transparent&vol=Volume&study=Exponential%20moving%20average&ma_period=50&key=

Tally Ho

John Disney__A
(Sat May 23 1998 10:03 - ID#24135)
The Diaspora
For Mozel ..
You're right .. they didnt seem to miss me .. not one
little bit. They'd probably pay ne to stay away .
... I LOVED walking away from social security .. I knew
I wouldn't get anything anyway.
... OH FREEDOM .... I love it.

John Disney__A
(Sat May 23 1998 10:08 - ID#24135)
Wise man say ...
Ray ..
man who go fishing
on wrong side of moving average
will pay a lot for fish ...

(Sat May 23 1998 10:16 - ID#411149)
Better idea!
Hey John- iffin you can buy 15 tomatoes for a buck, go down
to Parishable Cargo Carriers and send me a couple of 747 loads
to Houston. Screw gold we can make a killin on tomatoes.

Tally Ho

PS- I will be gone for a while, got to graduate my kid and party
for a while.

John Disney__A
(Sat May 23 1998 10:16 - ID#24135)
Tough Guys Dont Dance
for Ray
I made over 400 gs in the last 6 months doing what Im
doing.. Not so great but better than I usually do..
Considering I have no job and not even ONE CLIENT.
.. So ITS like that old song ..
"I wont dance"
"Cant make me"

(Sat May 23 1998 10:32 - ID#33180)
from USAGOLD on 5/22. James Turk says Dutch still selling gold
In gold news, I had the opportunity to speak with old friend, James Turk,

yesterday ( after a miserable ( scratch that ) -- "deplorable" -- 9 holes of golf. ( One

wonders why we submit ourselves to this type of degradation. Resolving my sad

relationship with the little white ball has moved high on my agenda for early

summer. ) At any rate, Mr. Turk, who writes an admirable newsletter for those

interested in the mysteries of gold and international finance called THE

FREEMARKET GOLD & MONEY REPORT, tells me that he suspects that the

reason why there hasn't been an announcement on the gold content of the euro

is because "the Dutch are in the process of dishoarding all or a major portion of

their 1000 tonnes of gold." Those of you who have followed Mr. Turk over the

years know that he has done some of the heavy lifting for the rest of us gold

analysts on international gold flows, particularly in Europe. He says in his May

18, 1998 letter: "No announcement has been made by the new ECB ( European

Central Bank ) about its future gold policy because the new ECB governor ( who

by coincidence is Dutch ) is purposefully allowing the Dutch -- with the tacit

approval of each of the member countries in the monetary union -- to complete

their dishoarding before ECB makes any definitive and formal policy statement

about foreign reserves and Gold. The reason: After ECB goes into effect the

Dutch will not be able to mobilize reserves. The Dutch know that Germany, Italy

and France favor a strong gold reserve. The Dutch would just as soon sell,

according to Turk. So this is the reason for the delay. It all makes sense save

for one small problem: There has been no announcement along these lines from

the Dutch so we can't know for sure if Turk's theory is reality. I asked Mr. Turk,

"Do you really think that the Dutch are selling all their gold? His response was

that there has to be some reason for gold's dismal performance in the face of

everything's that gone on lately ( the euro, Japan, Asia, etc. ) . Somebody's got to

be selling and most the most likely candidate is the Dutch. The golden lining to

this gloomy cloud however, says Turk, is "once the announcement is made, buy

gold. That will be the bottom of the market." If his scenario is the correct one,

we would concur.

John Disney__A
(Sat May 23 1998 10:41 - ID#24135)
Fresh Tomato soup for Goldbugs ..

Take Maybe 8 ripe tomatoes .. a sweet pepper cut up..
a few spring onions .. basil .. slice it up..
cover with some good olive oil and a little balsamic
vinegar .. a crushed garlic and a pinch sugar ..
marinate for maybe 2 hours .. then run through food
processor.. add a cup of tomato juice to thin it
and 2 oz cold vodka .. chill .. serve with bruscetta..
ie toast bread two sides .. drizzle with olive oil..
smear with fresh crushed garlic. eat .. enjoy ..
with tomatoes at 15 for a buck I cant afford not to
eat it... at least until I find work.

John Disney__A
(Sat May 23 1998 10:49 - ID#24135)
Try That Soup..
Elf ..
My problem is that silver and platinum
have been going down even harder than gold.
The Dutch dont sell these little numbers.
Who knows .. I just dont believe thats
whats running this gold market. I dont believe
CB gold sales have anything much to do with
it. Forward sales and gold leasing YES. CB
sales I think not.

(Sat May 23 1998 10:52 - ID#254201)
S&P - Buy the June SnP between 1111-1113 use a 5-point stop 2-3 month objective 1250. The S&P is forming and has almost completed a wave 4 triangle, a wave five up should start very soon, the SnP tends to find a top in July or August. If you want less risk use the E-Mini risk $250 Potential $6700 if objective is hit.

Silver - Buy July Silver between 5.05 - 5.10 use a 4.90 stop close only. 4-6-month objective 10.00. Silver should be forming a wave 2 bottom. It will be a wild ride to 10.00 with inter day swings of 1.00 or more, but we're at the price low for the move now.

Gold - June Gold looks ready to break down out of its wave 4, ABC pattern ( weekly ) min. objective 290, Gold and Silver have been going in opposite directions all year no reason to change now.

XAU - Heading down also to fill the gaps around 71-70.

(Sat May 23 1998 10:54 - ID#45173)
themissinglink Or...
...when the stock market turns south, either quickly or gradually ( as someone here pointed out last week, it's having trouble staying over 9000, certainly the constant upward trend has slowed or stopped ) , then you may see a move of capital to debt markets, with Treasuries representing the most secure investment, municiple bonds next, and corporate bonds not much better than stocks but with far less potential return. So the domestic market for US debt may actually improve, even at current rates.

(Sat May 23 1998 11:08 - ID#411112)
John Disney,you may just be starting something KITCO cookbook every Saturday morning,it sure would
ease the weeks stress and yours looks so good I'am off to buy tomatoes and stuff.....

(Sat May 23 1998 11:29 - ID#290118)
Draft Dodger
Sharefin, Thanks for the post on Clinton's Naval Academy speech.
I understand that ANY presentation the draft dodger makes to ANY military group is received poorly in the minds of those in the military. They give him the bare minimum of polite reception to keep from getting reprimanded. I wonder if that bothers him - that he has only nominal control over the military - and only because they have a sense of duty to our nation, not because they respect their commander in chief.

(Sat May 23 1998 12:01 - ID#22956) POG drop
I concur that you may be partially correct in the assesment that leasing and forward sales are what has caused this market to drop. BUT....why did the BOTTOM drop out of the POG every time ANOTHER CB announced it's sale ( or even intent to sell ) of gold?

Is it something like this ( ? ) : The forward sales and/or leasing is the train and the CB announcements of sales are what grease the tracks? It must be a combination of events and the shorters have been taking great advantage of this.

Or could it be ( heaven forbid ) that gold is acting as a commodity right now and is following simple supply/demand principles. There is PLENTY of gold out there, no? And it is not getting 'used up'......nope.

...........I dunno.....I'm going out to buy some juicy tomato ( e ) s..........vegetables and fruits are something I DO know about. yum-yum...

away......for some soupage


have a good weekend all.....gotta run and do the memorial-weekend-thingy........uh huh. yahooooooo!

(Sat May 23 1998 12:07 - ID#57232)
How about a hint?
John Disney: When you have a chance, could you give us a rough idea why your investments have gone so well recently? I seem to do well for time -- 10% gains since January. Then -- lost a third of the profits in the last two weeks. Easy come and easy go -- especially for me with precious metals.

Incidentally, something is really up in Russia. Just how long can the Russian economy stay afloat if the Trans-Siberian Railway has been severed by angry miners? A scolding by B Yeltsin does not work if you have not been paid in over 6 months.

We need input from Oris. This will be very bullish indeed for gold -- but big time trouble for the world.

(Sat May 23 1998 12:14 - ID#252127)
The Dutch

Lets see, they were the instigators of the South Sea Bubble, the Tulip Mania. With a track record like that, I can believe that they are considering dumping more gold.

(Sat May 23 1998 12:38 - ID#270236)
South Sea Bubble
I could be wrong, but I think the South Sea Bubble was English not
Dutch. Didn't Newton loose alot of money in the crash?

(Sat May 23 1998 12:39 - ID#228128)
You mentioned that you used cycles in your analysis. Can you elaborate on what cycles you look at?

(Sat May 23 1998 12:43 - ID#270236)
The problems with the gold market.
I don't think the recent price weakness is due to forward sales because
there has been no run-up in the longer dated lease rates. I think
its more likely renewed C.B. sales out of Europe from gold that wasn't
leased first. I say this because when a C.B. sells gold that was out
on lease, the withdrawal of the leased gold causes a spike in the
the short lease rate. I have detected no such spike.

(Sat May 23 1998 12:55 - ID#254112)
@Steve Perth (LaRouche's Analysis) your 9:22
Thanks for posting this. There are said quite a few good things in this analysis. However, I mistrust LaRouche because of the following reasons:
- He wants to make the world believe that to recognition of the stock market bubble, the worldwide financial crises, the US$ being on shaky grounds e.t.c. is only possible because the great Guru LaRouche has recognized this and nobody else.
- He proposes a New Bretton Woods but never will tell anybody what should happen at this "New Bretton Woods".
- My impression is, he wants to make people believe that he, La Rouche, is the great saviour without whom mankind will be lost.
- He defends Clinton like mad.
- To him, FDR is a great hero.
- The most important term in his overly politically correct post WWII world view is "NAZI".

Nevertheless, sometimes his associates say good things. But I don't trust him. I have the feeling, he wants to impose a dictaorship based on moral fanatism.

Read this:
"So, here again, the question of LaRouche, whether it's the specifics of the frame-up and the exoneration, or it's the fact that LaRouche's exoneration is aimed at putting him in the position to walk into the White House front door, and discuss openly how to implement this New Bretton Woods policy -- which, after all, he is the architect of -- all of these issues are really coming to a head right now."

So, LaRouche is already now the architect of the "New Bretton Woods".
But what the architecture is like, that's being kept top secret. Sometimes, gold should play a role, sometimes it is not necessary!
Poor followers!
I'm only sorry that he uses all these great German philosophers and poets to impress his fellow Americans.

I don't trust this guy, but sometimes I find the research of his associates very useful.

Alberich the Dwarf

(Sat May 23 1998 13:26 - ID#20137)
To: +Alan Whirlwind ( 12084 )
From: +Alex
Saturday, May 23 1998 1:02PM ET
Reply # of 12088

Japan pushing for yen as key, handy unit at APEC

By Masaru Sato

KANANASKIS, Alberta, May 23 ( Reuters ) - After years of hesitation, Japan's top
policymakers are now calling for a higher status for the yen in global transactions.

''We are at the crossroads, where the yen could become a local currency or a key
reserve currency,'' a senior Finance Ministry official said at this resort in the Canadian

Japan's financial bureaucrats remained low-key about their favourite ''Yen, the handy,
core currency'' slogan for fear it could upset their U.S. allies.

A relative strength of the yen would mean a relative weakness in other major currencies,
such as the U.S. dollar.

But Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto, once at the helm of the Finance Ministry, is
worried that the yen might be left out of the currency beauty contest when Europe kicks
in the single currency system next year, the official said.

The euro will be a dominant force in transactions, a new challenge to the dollar and yen.


''If the currency is pegged to the dollar, the country cannot defend it well. There's
demand from the ASEAN members, such as Malaysia and Thailand, to make the yen
more usable,'' the official said.

Members of the Association of South East-Asian Nations welcomed Japan's yen
initiative when they briefly met Matsunaga on Friday on the eve of the two-day APEC
meeting, he said.

Some 40 percent of Japan's exports were denominated in yen, while only 20 percent of
its imports were paid in yen. ASEAN wants Japan to increase payments in yen to
decrease their dependence on the dollar.

The timing might be right for the yen campaign.

Washington, which has been calling on Japan to open up markets to foreign
competition, has no objection to further deregulation of yen-asset markets.

The idea has existed, but Tokyo was wary of pushing for the yen's status as a key
reserve or transaction currency in Asia.

(Sat May 23 1998 13:27 - ID#410215)
..... K2 Coward .....

Seems some cowardly jerk has chosen K2 to carry on some personal vendetta

Since he is afraid to register on K1, he snipes from the shadows

Let's bring this little ferret out into the light

Please read his posts so you will see what an ass I am

And how exceedingly clever he is

He uses an anonymous Email return address

He thinks this offers secrecy

He has much to learn


(Sat May 23 1998 13:28 - ID#215208)
Seems to be the day for cogitating on the direction of gold. So I will happily contribute my 2-cents worth.

I watch the relative price movements a lot, using this channels chart. Although the overall trends of the metals are often opposite, it is common for short-term action to be reflected across the PM spectrum. Although silver was trending down and gold up, they both touched the bottoms of my current channels at the same time back in mid-March. I expect it will happen again. Although the dotted-line silver channel is perfectly valid, I favor the solid line channel. OK, this is partly due to my respect for APH's musings, but it is also because I expect PA to drop more next week, taking PL with it, and having a negative affect on the other metals as well. So, if silver follows and takes another leg down to near the bottom of the solid-line channel, gold should also drop. However, to me gold has shown remarkable strength in holding up as well as it has while silver dropped steeply. I don't expect gold to drop much below the 295-296 level. The other clue is that the RSA gold stock are rock steady. I've been hoping they would get hit here towards the bottom, but they aren't cooperating.

So, my reading is:

PA will drop steeply, possibly down to 280. This will take PL down. Using a channel width similar to the previous one, PL could touch 265 ( London closing, of course ) .

Silver will dip to 5.00 or slightly under. Gold will reluctantly dip briefly to 295, but nobody's going to get any great bargains ( relative to current prices ) .

Personally, I swallowed hard and took my loss on july silver at 5.305 a couple days ago. Still hold some metal, but will probably close this out on Tueday. So far this was the right thing to do, but I realize I'm taking a significant risk that I'm wrong, and that silver will head up from here ( the dotted-line channel ) . I definitely will buy back in, but hopefully at a better entry point.

Also will jump back heavy into PL.

I don't do gold futures, but will grab another handful of Feb '99 330 options, and reinvest the profits I took on RSA stock.

Then I will pray a lot and make burnt offerings, etc.

(Sat May 23 1998 13:36 - ID#266105)

Fight fire with fire. I think K-Y is the better nomenclature
for the dark side. Bart, bring out the Black Flag.

(Sat May 23 1998 13:36 - ID#215208)
That's 365 for PL, of course, not 265.

(Sat May 23 1998 13:51 - ID#257136)
Islan Nation-Squirrel and all!
about twenty-three years ago, a group of men from Co. , Ca. and elswhwere got the bright idea of selling 1 and 2 acre plots in a small town in Eastern Ca. Alpine County, to be precise.

Several hundred acres were sold and all were making preparations to physically move there just to register to vote.
We would have declared residence there and voted absentee if unable to totally re-locate.
The County Seat was Markleeville.
The land could not have sustained gardens so there was no real chance for a food source.
The intent was to take over the County government. It would have been possible except for a man named Francis Gillings.
He it was who initially had the brainstorm.
Unfortunately most of the Patriots were not aware he had deap-seated emotional problems as well as being a diabetic. He was subject to the same rigors and behavioral problems as are many diabetics when the insulin is neglected.
To shorten the story; He and some others moved to Markeeville and for a spell, quietly went about the task of getting deeds recorded and property for businesses under option-everthing deemed needed to get the Free County established.
The major ( there were others ) fly in the ointment was the fact ol' Gillings couldn't kep his mouth shut. He bragged to all and sundry as to how he was gonna be top dog or big duck in the pond.
He told them just what to expect when we gained political control.

The alarms were heard in Sacramento as well as in D.C.. I honestly don't know what finally transpired in the matter, except I and friends lost all the funds we had put up as an aid to the project.
Some say Gillings screwed it up deliberately so as to abscond with all the funds and set himself up in a business in Gardnerville, Nevada or Minden Nv.
Quien Sabe?
The point of this post is: it aint a new idea. I still cotton to the idea, but can see the down side also!
Rotsa Ruck anyhoo!

(Sat May 23 1998 13:51 - ID#45173)
K2 is useless
RJ, there's no username/password requirement at K2 so there's no accountability. It's the nature of the weak to hide behind annonymity. That's why it is a rule of law civilized societies that an accused person has the right to face their accuser. I recommend you ignore K2 and the wiseguys there.

(Sat May 23 1998 13:58 - ID#266105)

Off to chores.

(Sat May 23 1998 13:59 - ID#410215)
..... EJ & 2B .....

I agree.

Rather than leave these tunnel rats fornicating in the sewer, I simply want to show their words for the world to see. Some live in fear and darkness, some live in the light.

This fellow posted a hotmail Email address to collect horror stories about me. I wonder if he knows who he is responding to?

Time will tell.

I forgot who said this, but it seems appropriate:

"Live your life unashamed of what others may say about you; even if it is untrue."

Those are wise words


(Sat May 23 1998 14:14 - ID#410215)
..... Perhaps no other here is as public as I .....

One point of clarification. Bart asked me many months ago to identify myself as a metals broker, especially when I was so bearish on gold. He seemed to think this would stop the suspicions that I had some sort of agenda. I hesitated to name my firm because I speak for myself on these pages, as all here realize.

When, after eight months, I finally revealed where I work, it was because a CNN camera crew was standing on my desk, filming the Monex trading floor for Moneyline when silver made its big move.

I speak for myself here and no other.

This is called freedom.

No man or beast shall shackle I.

Nor still my voice


John Disney__A
(Sat May 23 1998 14:15 - ID#24135)
Harmony was good to me .. Now for the soapbox
Main contribution to profit was Harmony. I bought in for over
100,000 shares at average 11 Rand ( plus a little ) aound december. I posted it about that time. I sold out at about 26 plus .. I had around the same in randfontein at below 10 and went out 15 plus . Made maybe 15 % on Northam Plat and also traded impala, amplats, and Durban Deep ords for small gains.
Will also score on DDeeps preferred if market holds up to end
MAY when they convert to an ordinary plus an option. Im down on
rangy but not too much.. Im also down on avmin but sold out fast and ate loss as soon as it turned against me. I like it a lot but it's going the wrong way. Also made a little with puts on the sp500 and lost
a little with calls recently. I also have a bunch of
options on DDeeps and Harmony that Im up maybe 3 times on.
I'm very nervous about PM now and see no reason to try to force
the market. You cannot tell it what to do. You can only try to
find out what it wants to do. Many on Kitco seem to feel that if
you are not chanting for gold you are disloyal in some way.
Also there is a lot of ego .. I believe that to really make
money trading EGO MUST GO. Being RIGHT means NOTHING. Making
dough is everything. Humility and flexibility of thought are
IMPORTANT. I HATE guys making CALLS. Saying what you're going to
do and doing it is fine BUT you should have a REASON .. the "MY
GUT TELLS ME" argument is probably just INDIGESTION.
I love gold. But I know that it goes down as well as up. To
make money trading it you must be OUT at least half the time.

(Sat May 23 1998 14:26 - ID#266105)

Dissension in the ranks...

(Sat May 23 1998 14:53 - ID#252127)
Stillwell plans to produce 1.3 million ounces of palladium and platinum by 2003

Story from The Northern Miner covers them well.

(Sat May 23 1998 14:54 - ID#373403)
March 31 1998 FOMC meeting
"To be sure, the factors that had produced the favorable inflation results of recent years were not all well understood, and consequently expectations of greater price pressures had to be tentative."

(Sat May 23 1998 15:01 - ID#153102)
You have LaRouche pegged. He's slick like Willie though.
He plays those strings: Nationalism and socialism.

(Sat May 23 1998 15:02 - ID#252127)
Stillwater plans to produce 1.3 million ounces of palladium and platinum by 2003

Story from The Northern Miner covers them well.

(Sat May 23 1998 15:06 - ID#342376)
@ RJ
Yes, it's too bad the poster couldn't address you directly. However, sometimes this forum becomes an outlet for you to the point of being disruptive to the group IMHO. This is not your site. If you have a problem with a poster, make a post with a way to take it "outside". Friendly banter is one thing, a vendetta another. You have so much to contribute, and I have learned much from you. If you wish to speak to me, I am at

(Sat May 23 1998 15:21 - ID#153102)
The Liberty Cycle in the United States of America
1790-1860 70 Years:: Going
1860-1930 70 Years:: Going
1930-2000 70 years:: Gone.

Gusto Oro
(Sat May 23 1998 15:33 - ID#377235)
Ignore the doorknobs. They must lead pretty lame lives if they don't have anything better to do than log on to criticize posters of gold threads. --AG

(Sat May 23 1998 15:43 - ID#316193)
For Those That Missed ANOTHER's Postings Yesterday

(Sat May 23 1998 15:47 - ID#334219)
APH: Would you care to comment the following S&P count on the Temple site. He has been right on for quite a while.

Select the daily chart on the top at

(Sat May 23 1998 16:07 - ID#410215)
..... Mr. ANOTHER writes on USA GOLD .....

"If they go with the French candidate, he will be pro-gold. If they go with the German ( Dutch ) candidate, he will be pro-gold."

Me now:

The Dutch candidate was responsible for selling mucho gold from The Netherlandss vaults over the last two years.

The Dutch have sold, the Germans have leased. I think Mr. ANOTHER trips himself up. I would like to know how this is "pro-gold".

Congratulations to the success of the ANOTHER book, beats selling gold, don't it?

(Sat May 23 1998 16:08 - ID#290118)
Frightening news - even more so cuz it is old and has been mostly ignored.
Rob, The book BOY CLINTON does not say much about his trip to Moscow other than:

a few items from page 64-65 which speak of revelations by the New York Times

...late in 1969 Clinton had embarked on a 40-day train trip through Sweden, Finland, the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia. Though a student on a modest budget ( his Rhodes scholarship provided only $2,760 annually for tuition, room and board ) he had journeyed to Moscow and stayed in one of Moscows more expensive hotels  the National, much favored at the time by the Soviet elite, then he visited Prague, the capital of one of the Soviet Blocs most repressive regimes. The trip to Moscow alone in those days could have cost as much as $5,000....

Where did the money come from? How did an American student acquire such clout with the Soviets? Surely the KGB or some propaganda arm of the Soviet government was involved....State department files supposedly contained evidence that Clinton had given up his citizenship to avoid the draft, that he had committed treason, and that while in Moscow he had slipped away for a clandestine trip to Hanoi...

On the subject of mysterious deaths on pages 140-141

Historians will someday settle the question as to whether the Arkansas machine had a hand in the untimely deaths that overcame the Clintons friends, associates, distant acquaintances, and enemies during their rise to power. We do know that in the summer of 1994 the sober Economist listed eight unpleasant incidents in warning of the peculiar pattern of suicides and violence surrounding people connected to the Clintons: Vince Foster, Kathy Ferguson ( ex-wife of a Clinton bodyguard, a suicide ) , Bill Shelton ( Arkansas policeman, boyfriend of Ferguson, a suicide ) , John Walker ( RTC investigator concerned with irregularities at Madison Guaranty Savings and Loan, fell from the top of a building, dead ) , Jerry Parks ( chief of security for Clintons 1992 campaign headquarters, shot dead in Arkansas ) , Gary Johnson ( Arkansas lawyer badly beaten in 1992 after claiming to have video tapes of Clinton calling on Gennifer Flowers ) , Dennis Patrick ( endured three attempts on his life after he discovered millions of dollars passing mysteriously through his account at the firm of Clinton supporter and friend Dan Lasater ) , and Stanley Huggins ( early investigator into Madison Guaranty Savings and Loan, found dead in Delaware.

I add to this some salient items from an editorial by Chet Whye Jr. in the Denver post back when 7-year old pilot Jessica died in crash in Cheyenne Wyoming and the media was damning her flight instructor and her parents for letting her take off in heavy weather to continue her attempt at being the youngest pilot to complete a cross-country flight. That few questions other than Whyes were raised regarding another risky flight is itself suspicious.

There are just too many questions about the mysterious death of Commerce Secretary Ron Brown. Now that he has been respectfully laid to rest its time to get down to business. Let me back up a little bit. I was an aerospace engineer long before I started throwing down the ink. I spent time on everything from tail sections of little Falcon 20s to the launch of Titan missile. Believe it  there are things about this flight that smell like a dead fish.

Area natives described the downpour as the worst weather they had seen in a decade. Visibility was horrible. Any aircraft taking the chance would have had to rely heavily on instrumentation to maneuver through that storm. This is a plane that should never have taken off.

Lt. Col. James Albright was commander of the 76th airlift Squadron...Albright voiced concern about the flying of T-43As over such difficult terrain....Just five days before the crash of Browns plane, Albright was relieved of duty....Albright had refused to permit flight of T-43As in the area because he considered the conditions unsafe. Yet the T-43A carrying Ron Brown was allowed to take off over mountainous the middle of a horrendous storm.

The only thing guiding the T-43A ...was a low-frequency, nondirectional radio beacon....[that] cant handle interference from atmospheric disturbances.

But theres more... Three days after the crash a Croatian name Niko Junic committed suicide. Junic just happened to be chief of the very navigation system that guided Browns plane.

Usually the prime source of information as to why a craft goes down is the technical-data recorder - the black box in the cockpit. T-43As dont carry them. Budget reasons, the Air Force says.

Since the above editorial more has come to light...

A 45 caliber hole in the top of Ron Browns skull. Autopsy photographs have disappeared. The physicians involved have been told not to talk about it. Some American blacks have questioned why a mysterious death of a black has not been investigated like they assume such a death of a white would be.

And more comes to light every China, and ( from the Wall Street Journal 10/23/96 ) Clintons refusal to execute the Ballistic Missile Defense Act that he signed in 1995.

He effectively vetoed Thaad and Upper Tier that could have defended us against incoming missiles from the Chinese or others. He hands our enemies advanced weapons systems and then ties our hands so we cant defend ourselves against such threats. Hopefully our military has developed other defense plans independent of the President.

Is the U.S. President the anti-christ or just another Suharto?

Think Long & Hard On This
(Sat May 23 1998 16:11 - ID#359307)

(Sat May 23 1998 16:13 - ID#238422)
John Disney and Junior
Thank you for your support.
Unfortunately, as it looks now, we can not win.

(Sat May 23 1998 16:14 - ID#255284)
Happy Happy Joy Joy
I'm Back. Thanks to all those who have helped, esp sharefin, squirrel, auric candelabra & promey. It seemed to work when I trashed my cookies and rebuilt the desktop. Now to catch up.

(Sat May 23 1998 16:16 - ID#410215)
..... Common Sense .....

Effendi ANOTHER writes of vast conspiracies and 30K gold.

And the masses throng to his side to supplicate.

I write if a simple supply demand picture in PGMs and a return of platinum to its traditional trading range of 450 - 600.

Gold goes down in the face of ANOTHER,S predictions.

Platinum goes down in the face of mine

Let us see which will bring the greater rewards in the soonest time.

Let us see which outperforms which over the long term.

Platinum has outperformed gold better than 95% of the time.

Hurrah for the five percenters


(Sat May 23 1998 16:18 - ID#410215)
..... Aurator, mate .....

You were gone?

( Its a joke, damnit! )


(Sat May 23 1998 16:26 - ID#238422)
Russia is a very big country. When in 1991 there was
a crisis in Moscow, which was very scary event for
everybody, the total number of active participants
did not exceed 50,000, less than 1% of the Moscow
population. You draw your own conclusions...

Miners let many trains to go through, which means
they DO NOT WANT to upset public. Why? May be because
they do not have enough support for a dramatic move?

French used the tactics of blocking roads and airports.
I've seen it personally in 1991 in Paris. France survived.

A short time ago we debated Russian readiness to nuke U.S.
in response to Iraq situation. Where is this situation now?

You may see some cosmetic changes in Russia after miners
are done with their agenda, but that's about it. No world
crisis, usual "Russian stuff". But that is my opinion, and
I may be wrong. Hopefully, I will be right.

(Sat May 23 1998 16:30 - ID#254112)
@mozel (LaRouche and Clinton)
Do you have any idea to which dynasty LaRouche belongs to?
It is very probable that Clinton is asset of the same oligarchical faction.

Under this aspect both have the following in common:
- same enemies: the Rockefeller Republicans, the Washington Post, of course Hery Kissinger; top influential financial groups in U.K., including G. Soros, the Queen's stock & currency broker.

This camp is not identical with the Rothschild camp, as far as my observations can reach. Even though, at times, both camps go into alliance and undermine each other's strategies. That's part of what happens in the countries of the former SU.

These are not the only supranationally operating powers, but two very important ones. Many religeous and pseudo-religeous organizations are grouped around these dynasties. LaRouche seems also in alliance with the Vatican and pretends to be strongly opposed to freemasons.

Any thoughts?

I think it is possible that LaRouche is tasked to try out and develop an ideology which is useful to attract young people which are opposed to the moral decadence of western societies.

The reason why I have such suspicions is, because LaRouche publishes a lot of analytical background information about the Rockefeller camp, including financial U.K. groups. The only way to learn about the politicas of these networks for us normal mortal people is to observe what they publish in their rivalry inspired attempts to get advantages in their striving for dominance.

Alberich the Dwarf

(Sat May 23 1998 16:37 - ID#26793)
Central Fund of Canada
For the first time in memory this holder of physical gold and silver bullion is selling at a premium to net asset value. It is listed in Barron's today at 0.6% over NAV of $4.10. I believe that the Barron's figures are Thursday prices.

(Sat May 23 1998 16:41 - ID#34857)
What a crock! Not an ounce of originality or decent acting. A two hour infomercial the likes of which will make them a ton of GOLD even if no one sees the movie.

The only redeemable scene was the old fisherman on the pier.

Save your money and your self-respect; stay home.

(Sat May 23 1998 16:45 - ID#316193)
It Was Probably a Year Ago That I Posted This Site. If You Don't Follow, Your'e Missing

(Sat May 23 1998 16:47 - ID#26793)
Does anyone know if he is related to President Bush?

(Sat May 23 1998 16:49 - ID#255151)

Can't think of a movie remake as good as the original. Examples-- Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Invaders from Mars, Frankenstein, Dracula, The Sting, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. The original Godzilla was cool.

(Sat May 23 1998 16:51 - ID#255284)
Your ( ..... Gold Report ..... ) Date: Fri May 22 1998 22:06
found itself a place in my "Gold Epigrams--cuttings from Kitco" file. . This file, being selected witicisms of goldbuggery now runs to 250 pages. perhaps I could publish ANOTHER book of Kitco's Gold Quotes, Yes?

I, too have been wondering how many fingers you have on your hands. You prestidigitator you.

(Sat May 23 1998 16:53 - ID#26793)
Moneydoctor says Indonesia has only another month to live.

(Sat May 23 1998 16:58 - ID#26793)
China has no immediate plans to devalue (note addition of word "immediate"

(Sat May 23 1998 17:03 - ID#26793)
Camdessus says IMF "doctors" must prescribe "bitter" pills.

(Sat May 23 1998 17:12 - ID#153102)
@Judy Shelton
Is so naive pains from sympathetic compassion torment me when I read her earnest thoughts.

(Sat May 23 1998 17:13 - ID#26793)
Andy Smith disputes figures in Silver Institute survey.

(Sat May 23 1998 17:14 - ID#254201)
CC - S&P
I looked at the chart and there isn't much difference. We both think another big up leg is coming I think the correction we're in is about over he feels alittle bit more is due. As far as the labeling of the waves...doesn't make any difference. Being in the right direction of the market makes you money not calling the right wave count.

(Sat May 23 1998 17:16 - ID#316193)
Donald, You Have a Tremendous Talent! If I Was to Ask..
If the Pope had eloped with a Vatican chambermaid, I'd bet you
could find something on the subject. Keep 'em coming!!

(Sat May 23 1998 17:17 - ID#290118)
Aurator - Welcome back aboard matey! Great to see you here again!
Keep an eye on the Netscape Newsgroup: netscape.macintosh
That thread I started is drawing some attention and advice.

(Sat May 23 1998 17:20 - ID#26793)
Yeltsin thinks miners are unreasonable! Asking to be paid? Are you guys nuts?

(Sat May 23 1998 17:22 - ID#26793)
Looks like the invention of Viagara has given you something new to worry about. ( grin thing )

(Sat May 23 1998 17:27 - ID#255151)
Auric (henryd_A) ID#255151:
Agree, "The original Godzilla was cool.".. rubber suit and all. And let's not forget "The Day The Earth Stood Still"! Great stuff. They'll probably re-make it, too, and fill it up with plugs for Pepsi, Sprint, Blockbuster and Kodac... sigh.

HenryD ( Go Gold, you good for nothing %#*&^! )

(Sat May 23 1998 17:27 - ID#57232)
Thanks for your summary --
JohnDisney: Appreciate your forthrightness. I have learned alot since posting and lurking on Kitco -- would have lost alot more gold investing over the last two years if I had not.

I still have trouble feeling equally at home in bear and bull markets, but I am working at it. You are abolutely right about the ego bit -- that gets in the way every time.

I see a short term pattern in the gold index ( XAU ) that is bearish. It goes up for two days, and then coasts down for many days -- this pattern is also evident on shorter term intraday trading -- bearish. On the other hand volume traded on all of my gold stock indices is dropping, suggesting that we are in a quiescent phase of a gold equity bull.

The last bullish item is that we seem to be repeating the 1993 pattern, but with silver leading gold. If so, we should have a very strong rally in silver beginning within weeks.

So I am still long gold, and am hoping the Indonesia situation is stabilizing so that SEAsians will feel like buying gold, not selling it.

Thanks for letting me know that you are as uneasy as I am and that you are still long.

Oris: Thanks for the insight into Russian politics. For the sake of the world, I hope you are right.

All: Please look at Matt Drudge or the Saturday New York Times -- another Jeff Gerth article out. Bernie Schwartz of Loral has retained a lawyer already-- I think it was one of the Clinton crowd. Bernie will also explain his position on THIS WEEK, ABC Sunday morning. Odd thing to do if you are getting a lawyer.

I have never seen congress galvanized like this in years.

(Sat May 23 1998 17:28 - ID#316193)

(Sat May 23 1998 17:30 - ID#228128)
I don't know if you missed my last post. I am wondering about what kinds/types of cycles you study in your market analyses?

(Sat May 23 1998 17:31 - ID#26793)
Hmmmmmm. Average mutual fund lost .62% for the week.

(Sat May 23 1998 17:32 - ID#57232)
Welcome back from the Aether!
aurator: It's a pleasure to know that you are with us again.

Were you on k2 for a while?

Is that like an alternative universe? Or is that 'ANOTHER' mountain peak near Mt Everest?

Seriously -- welcome back!

(Sat May 23 1998 17:34 - ID#34857)
RJ - K@ Handle
RJ; Is this you?

"RJ2 ( hoistingthefgr.a ) ID#411147:"

(Sat May 23 1998 17:36 - ID#26793)
S & P puts Pakistan currency on Credit Watch; negative implications.

(Sat May 23 1998 17:36 - ID#290118)
Gentlemen & Ladies
When I point others to this forum I tell them its greatest strength is its peer review. Each of us may think of something or hear of something that we run up the flagpole here for validation or revisions by the group or maybe to be shot down by the group.
I think anyone reading posts here should be intelligent and independent enough to question the sources and experience of the poster. If they do not that is their own tough luck. If I spout off something that sounds odd - I expect some feedback and critique.

EJ & 2B - if you don't like the posts on K2 you do not have to partake. There is a fair mix recently of banter and Gold discussion. Lighten up. Take note of Grizz's post over there on Sat May 23 1998 00:24

RJ - yes the anonymous poster may do you wrong. But could you please hold your retaliatory salvos to no more than he or she is using. And could you hold the invective down. Some of us are in the crossfire - especially with posts that come in doublespaced. ( hard returns end up that way here ) . I would like to think than Mozel and I did not get quite as carried away as you and your nemesis do. When we do, please let us know.

Failing all of that, take it outside as crazytimes suggested.

(Sat May 23 1998 17:37 - ID#34857)
RJ - K2 Handle - Sorry about the K@; Meant: K2 Handle

(Sat May 23 1998 17:44 - ID#290118)
Squirrel (Gentlemen & Ladies) ID#290118:
Squirrel; I like K2 too. It's irreverant and unfocused and undisciplined and off-topic and irresponsible and wild and disjointed... and that's the way, uh huh, uh, huh, I like it, uh, huh, uh, huh!

Sort of reminds me of K1, yes?

(Sat May 23 1998 17:47 - ID#57232)
Reagan News site on the Clintons
Leland: I always wondered how the Clintons could be broke, given their past financial record in Arkansas. They get donations for their defense fund, they apparently have invested in a privatized, formally government information database company, and they are rumored to have a multimillion dollar offshore trust. What is really odd is the difference between the income they claimed on their IRS form, and the wealth they apparently now have. You'd think the IRS would be curious too, wouldn't you? That new-found wealth should show up sooner or later, shouldn't it?

(Sat May 23 1998 17:47 - ID#285392)
APH - Thanks for your updates
You are doing a great job of keeping Kitcoites on track

(Sat May 23 1998 17:48 - ID#285392)
I appreciate your crash index site information, thank you.

(Sat May 23 1998 17:55 - ID#285392)
RJ Glad to see you are back
In your opinion would it be worthwhile to exchange gold coins for platinum ones assuming there would be only a minimum commission. Looks like platinum will move up faster for the near term? Thanks

(Sat May 23 1998 17:57 - ID#410215)
..... Sequels .....

Auric -

Godfather II?


Police Academy IV?

These sequels were indeedy better than the originals. I saw Godzilla yesterday. I counted five direct rip offs from "Jaws" and a couple from other movies I cant recall now. The acting was insipid and the plot was ridiculous. Same for "Jurassic Park, The Lost World", but the T-Rex was cool.

What you get with the current incarnation of Godzilla is two hours of solid monsters. They wasted little time on a plot, but the monsters are scary as hell. This giant Godzilla MUST be seen on the big screen. He is one pissed of lizard.

I am off to see a movie today that I thought would never be made: "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas". The book, by Hunter S. Thompson ( THE finest writer of our generation ) was always considered unfilmable. If you believe the critics, it still is. They blasted it. I dont care, Im seeing it anyway.

When I first read HSTs book in the Seventies, I thought it was the most insane and dangerous piece of writing that I have ever witnessed. It remains so today, only surpassed occasionally by some of Thompsons other work. "Fear and Loathing" starts out with paranoia cranked to an almost unbearable level, and then builds up from there. By page 75 you will be loading weapons and casting furtive glances. By the end of the book, if you have taken any of it to heart, you should be a felon, or worse. Along the way, interspersed amongst the madness is some of the most appealing prose I have ever read.

Longtime readers of HST know there is a razor sharp intellect and an ability to cut through the surface BS and tell the story as nobody else even sees it. As the inventor of "Gonzo Journalism" HST always told the story from inside himself. He was always at the center. Events circled around him and it was ALL personal.

Those that have only read his crazy stuff, missed one of the greatest political handicappers of this century. He would figure the poll spreads and odds of political races like he was setting up his bets on the weekend football games, with an accuracy rate of better than 90%.

For any who may be Interested in the unique voice of HST, the following are some of his best works.

Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail 72

( a collection of reports written for Rolling Stone under the pseudonym, "Raul Duke" ) which includes a truly bizarre encounter with Richard Nixon durring a four hour Limo ride.

The Curse of Lono.

There is no way to describe this book, other than it takes place in Hawaii and the paranoia level matches "Las Vegas" in the climactic hallucinogenic Marlin fishing trip. The Hawaiian God Lono figures prominently in this book, as does a vicious Samoan War Club.

Hells Angles -

HSTs first book, published in 1966, is a strait piece of journalism from the inside of the most notorious motorcycle gang of all time. HST rode and partied with the Hells Angles for a year and a half and was friends with founder Sonny Barger. The Angles damn near beat HST to death when they found out how much money he was making on the book, and they were getting none of it.

Generation of Swine -

Essays from the Eighties. Way critical on Reagan and Bush.

Songs of the Doomed -

Get this one on tape as well as the book. His piece on the Roxanne Pulitzer divorce case is a scathing indictment of the Old Money of West Palm Beach.

The Proud Highway -

His latest is a trip to the past. This book is a compilation of HSTs personal correspondence from age 17 to 28. It is fascinating to see his enormous raw talent grow and refine into the most unique voice I have ever heard.

If anyone here is more on the conservative side, I recommend none of these; they will shake your tree to the roots. For the rest, read the words of HST, you will never view the world the same again.


Oh, yeah........ Go Gold

(Sat May 23 1998 18:00 - ID#316193)
If we follow the Clinton saga during this fast moving saga,
the truths that will emerge will make USA ashamed, worldaround.
The problem is, what kind of world will it be? Maybe on
Kitco we'll get a preview.

(Sat May 23 1998 18:00 - ID#410215)
..... Snowbird .....

I tried to respond to your inquiry, but the email would not go through. Try it again, would you?

Steve in TO__A
(Sat May 23 1998 18:02 - ID#209265)
Auric - Thank you
for posting the link to the article on Dr. di Bella. Is anyone interested in his cancer treatment? I gather he still treats people in Italy, even though he's very old.

I have a friend in the Immunology Dept. of the University of Modena. If anyone is interested I could call him and see what he knows about di Bella.

- Steve

(Sat May 23 1998 18:06 - ID#410215)
..... Huh uh .....

henryd__A ( RJ - K@ Handle ) RJ; Is this you?

"RJ2 ( hoistingthefgr.a ) ID#411147:"

No, look at the ID. The writing style is also very different. I think RJ2 is a long time poster at K2 and SI.

(Sat May 23 1998 18:08 - ID#286279)
Good to see you back! I sent a few ICQ messages but you must have quickly shut it down again. See ya...

Steve in TO__A
(Sat May 23 1998 18:14 - ID#209265)
Squirrel - the book "Boy Clinton"
may have it wrong when it explains his expensive travel as possibly being covered by the KGB or some other Soviet agency.

It is well known that Bill Clinton has been a CIA asset since his Rhodes Scholarship days. He was paid to get to know American student groups in Europe & report on their activities. Orlin Grabbe claims to know the fellow who was his handler. As I recall, there's an e-mail link on his web page ( ) if you would like to contact him about it.

It seems more likely that the source of his funds was CIA, although maybe Soviet groups were paying for his stay, unaware of his background.

What is also not clear is whether Hillary Clinton has been a CIA asset. Some people have speculated that she is, but there doesn't seem to be the amount of documentation on it that there is with WJC.

Another interesting CIA issue is: how do you think Clinton, the complete dark horse in the Democratic primaries, and then the underdog in the 1992 presidential race came out ahead? He didn't do it all by himself.

- Steve

(Sat May 23 1998 18:17 - ID#410215)
..... Squirrel .....

I posted little of the K2 Coward on this page. My most biting remarks are on the forum in which the insult occurred. I have found that confrontation is the ONLY way to deal with these types. Their snipes rarely stand up in the light of day. I just drag 'em out from under the crawlspace and let the cleansing rays of the sun do its work.


(Sat May 23 1998 18:21 - ID#153102)
You can tell who thinks whom allies with by what they publish about each other, but that's about all, as I see it.

(Sat May 23 1998 18:33 - ID#26793)
So. Korea complains that a weak yen is hurting Korean exports.

(Sat May 23 1998 18:35 - ID#342315)
aj re your 13:51
Reminds me of the dude that carved up a few acres into 1 inch squares and sold a bunch of recorded deeds in Italy and other parts of Europe. As far as I know nothing illegal. He made a fortune at $5 per deed. Any ideas?

(Sat May 23 1998 18:39 - ID#26793)
The Social Security stock market "fix".

(Sat May 23 1998 18:57 - ID#26793)
The World turned upside down; an end to inflation?

(Sat May 23 1998 19:07 - ID#45173)
Brilliant article "The Social Contradictions of Japanese Capitalism"
in the June Atlantic Monthly.

"The United States, which absorbs much of this Niagara of imports ( Japan's $100B current-account surplus ) , will grumble as usual, but Japan lends it the money to buy Japanese goods, and if Japan ever stopped recycling its trade surplus into U.S. Treasury bonds, or sold them to buy gold, the current U.S. bubble would probably collapse too, with interest rates at depression-triggering double digits."


"Japan is a hostage to American prosperity, and America is hostage to Japanese frugality. Ethno-economics has locked the two countries into a loveless embrace, and smaller Asian economies into a sumo wrestler's hug by Japan. Something has to give. But what?"

(Sat May 23 1998 19:10 - ID#153102)
@The 5% @To Each His Own
RJ posts platinum outperforms gold 95% to 5% according to his records.

ANOTHER posts all paper may burn.

So, suppose RJ is right 95% of the time and ANOTHER is right 5% of the time. It works out as I see it that eventually followers of RJ are going to have NOTHING. The only question is timing.

I can see no better set of cirumstances for the establishment of a "genuine public-private partnership" in the United States that the circumstances which would prevail after all paper assets were devalued to NOTHING. Pensions gone. Savings gone. Security gone. And still the taxman cometh. Food stamps, the other legal tender, could be the surviving legal tender.

I look at the rubble of the OKC building and I see a pattern which required high explosive charges on the columns inside the building. Required. I refuse to rationalize away the evidence.

I review the reports of official unreadiness for Y2K and I recall that in politics, nothing ever happens by accident. I look outside the country at the gold trading part of the world making monetary and trading arrangments and I look inside the country at the sheeple and in my mind's eye I see high ambition perceives opportunity.

Hunter S. Thompson is right, of course. It is all personal. But, the System wants you to be objective, so you yourself deny your own life, your own liberty. You have to believe the media and legal fictions over the evidence of your own mind and senses in order to conform and be considered worth having around. When they started to say, "America, love it or leave it", you had the System's bottom line. Well, this, too, is nothing new. There is a confederate cemetary in Argentina where heroic friends of liberty rest, who were before they died, no longer welcome in the land of their birth.

(Sat May 23 1998 19:15 - ID#26793)
Discussion of "The Wizard of OZ" and how it relates to the gold standard.

(Sat May 23 1998 19:24 - ID#26793)
Deflation; while your cash is in Switzerland the bargains may be in Florida

(Sat May 23 1998 19:30 - ID#153102)
No debt currency can survive contraction. When the constant infusion of new blood from expansion is withheld, the parasite of usury consumes the host.

(Sat May 23 1998 19:36 - ID#26793)
Inflation/Deflation forecaster claims 97% accuracy on direction, 90% on rate.

(Sat May 23 1998 19:37 - ID#373284)
Donald - thank YOU for the OZ post, I have been looking for something like that
this particular day and that fit the bill perfectly!!!...a huge GULP to ya.

(Sat May 23 1998 19:43 - ID#26793)
A gulp or two at the close of a perfect Spring day sounds pretty good.

(Sat May 23 1998 19:46 - ID#45173)
Donald Gold price during period of deflation
Thanks for the site on deflation. I agree with the assessment that we are entering a deflationary period. But I am uncertain how the price of gold will behave. Cash is king during deflations. I got to run to grab some dinner with my wife but want to talk about this with you later. Cheers.

(Sat May 23 1998 19:50 - ID#373284)

(Sat May 23 1998 19:51 - ID#344239)

(Sat May 23 1998 19:53 - ID#26793)
Do you mean the Euro or the rumors about the U.S.?

(Sat May 23 1998 19:53 - ID#347235)
@ RJ
Lighten up dude!! The guys over on K-2 are just trying to have a little fun. If you don't like it don't go there. I post over there too to get a few laughs, but have never said anything remotely insulting to you or any one else except one person who didnt identify himself, calls himself freeradical 1, called a lot of us stupid and I returned the favor. If oyu don't wish to get involed don't. Quit your whining.

(Sat May 23 1998 19:53 - ID#373284)
For those of you pondering gold in deflation I suggest that we have been in a
period of runaway inflation during the gold "bear." Cash could only be King if it had a value. Buy the well...

(Sat May 23 1998 19:55 - ID#347235)
Before you call me stupid involed = involved. Also bear in mind I graduated Columbia in may 89 with a GPA of 3.85 easy to verify.

(Sat May 23 1998 19:56 - ID#227238)
Donald: I must be missing something on Mr. Moore's mighty fine projections. He has 5 curves ( each representing a possible outcome ) spanning a range of 2:1 ( 1.5% to 3.0% ) . I'm wondering where in the hell he begins to measure his accuracy rate and of what conceivable difference it will make in the lives or fortunes of the rest of us. ...... Though easily misconstrued, this diatribe is not directed at you or your most excellent efforts.

(Sat May 23 1998 20:05 - ID#26793)
Dual currency and the Euro

(Sat May 23 1998 20:05 - ID#339212)
And I was going to take up ASTROLOGY lessons, Ouchhhh!

Date: Sun Apr 26 1998 07:45
Mike Sheller ( private Investor ) ID#347447:
Copyright  1998 Mike Sheller/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My pick is SSC ( Sunshine Mining ) . silver has been lacklustre, and if
it is to rally soon from here SSC would time itself nicely with your
bet, plus you would have a PM position among your 3 stocks anyhow,
which you should because you're at kitco. ALSO - and I know everyone
has already put this on their calendars ( if not, please do, so you can
elate me or berate me as to how GOOD an astrologer I am, NOT simply
BECAUSE I'm an astrologer ) on and around - add a few days before, a
few days after - MAY 22, Jupiter conjuncts SSC's Sun. This is a once
every 12 year astrological occurance. a significant jolt should be
felt. If it turns out negative, well, sorry. But if it is positive,
then you'll be close to winning your bet on SSC alone. If the rest of
the market tanks, and PM's go up, then you've got it made, unless the
other bettors have picked all gold stocks. But even SSC is so nicely
leveraged that it would do the trick. IMVHO, of course ( OC ) .


Some things just stay as "significant Astrological conjectures"...

(Sat May 23 1998 20:06 - ID#373284)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, for those of you that wish/are able to come to NY in
August I would love to hear from you. I am intensely interested in doing the best that I am able to have your stay here be as pleasant as I am able.

If it was my money I would spend it staying at a lovely place in Centerport. It is smack dab in the middle of the island that is long...quiet, several wonderful easy to get to places and on the water...lovely, simply lovely...

Anywho, contact me and we will figure this out. A HUGE Island Long GULP to all of ya...

(Sat May 23 1998 20:10 - ID#153102)
@The Bank
In 1929 no one considered the greenback to be a fiat currency. It had gold behind it. FDR told us so.

But now what is cash is more ambiguous.

Pondering the difference between Food Stamp Legal Tender and Federal Reserve Note for Nothing Legal Tender, I arrived at the fact there is no debt attached to Food Stamp Legal Tender. There is no FDIC attached to Food Stamp Legal Tender. It is a new currency waiting to step in should the FRN Legal Tender falter for a while. Or altogether.

My unruly mind also recalls that Congress has enacted legislation which will convert food stamp and other federal benefit outlays into electronic form and issue Benefit Credit Cards in the near future. I'm sure Donald could find an article.

Which leads me to a workable vision of how the genueine public-private partnership could compensate participants in the depths of Y2k. So long as The Bank is functioning well enough to disburse credits. And believe me, it will be.

(Sat May 23 1998 20:11 - ID#26793)
@3-Cubed; do you mean this bill? Dead as far as I know.

(Sat May 23 1998 20:11 - ID#344239)

(Sat May 23 1998 20:22 - ID#287186)
Whew - glad the smoke cleared!
RJ - I understand. I too sometimes let the buggers have it - but when done verbally I don't have the luxury of writing,editing, & rewriting to reign myself in somewhat. Even when I do - my fourth or fifth draft is still viewed by my opponents unrelenting rage, anger, invective and slamming. They should have seen my first draft! Most recently the local school district has been the brunt of my barbed writing. Little do they know that if I took the gloves off it would get very bloody indeed.

MOZEl - where did you derive the idea of explosives on the columns in the Federal Building? If it was independently - then it validates the writings and talk among the militia groups. Isn't it strange that the ATF and other feds that were in a position to know about the pending bombing did not have themselves or their families in the building at the time.
I wonder how this can be validated.

(Sat May 23 1998 20:24 - ID#344239)

(Sat May 23 1998 20:26 - ID#20748)
Derivatives anyone? Call JP Morgan

Gusto Oro
(Sat May 23 1998 20:27 - ID#377235)
Donald 1915
There was an "authority" on the Wizard of Oz who appeared as a guest on National Public Radio a few years back. When asked about the political significance of the Oz characters he stated he'd never heard of such and that it was preposterous to see the story in such a light. I'd heard of the political symbolism of Oz from several sources and it makes a guy wonder where they come up with these so called "experts" anyway. Tax dollars at work. --AG

(Sat May 23 1998 20:28 - ID#287186)
Food Stamps replaced by credit cards.
Again I have heard of this - supposedly an effort to cut into the market of people selling food stamp "currency" for cash to buy liquor & cigarettes, etc.
Soon it will be a chip in your palm that has all vital ( and other ) info recorded therein including how much you are worth. No cash, food stamps etc. needed - just wave your hand over the register and big brother will debit your central account for the condoms you just bought. ( Oh yes, the chip automatically verified that you had a license to do so ) .

(Sat May 23 1998 20:29 - ID#153102)
Validation ? Try physics.

(Sat May 23 1998 20:30 - ID#34857)
The poster on K2 going by the name of henryd, IS NOT I! ... although I like ducks too. : )


(Sat May 23 1998 20:31 - ID#434137)
Mozel: interesting concept
we should set up presses to take all the currency we can get our hands on, and add the "For Nothing" part to federal reserve note... then when joe errr 12 pack looks at his cash next time he will start wonderin...

(Sat May 23 1998 20:31 - ID#26793)
All about electronic food stamps

(Sat May 23 1998 20:38 - ID#26793)
Welfare costs
When we complain about these programs it is well to remember that up to 90% ( not a typo ) go to admin. salaries, consultants, computer makers, furniture manufacturers, architects, construction firms, lawyers, doctors, nurses, printers, farmers, oil companies et al just to support the programs. When you try to stop the programs that is where most of the noise comes from.

(Sat May 23 1998 20:44 - ID#153102)
@G-Nutz @Donald
Carpe Diem.

@Donald Gee, "Welfare" sounds like the beginnings of a genuine prublic-private partnership. I see the Federal Benefit Credit Cards are operational almost everywhere NOW.

(Sat May 23 1998 20:45 - ID#26793)
@Gusto Oro
I heard about the political connection to OZ here at Kitco several months ago. I told my wife and she still thinks I am making it up.

(Sat May 23 1998 20:48 - ID#31868)
Y2K will bring about chaos...on that tick of the clock we will all see how weak big brother is...

Bully Beef
(Sat May 23 1998 20:49 - ID#259261)
The socialists are coming! The socialists are coming!
They are subverting the minds of our children. They are sharing. They are doing something about poverty. Grab your guns and run away and hole up in Montana. Bury gold in your back yard.Teach your children that guns are a God given right and not a social responsibility . Run away! run away! I live in a climate that kills people if you don't help out. They get frozen solid and piled up like cord wood at minus 40.It makes things messy in the spring. We don't run away from problems. We face them head on. And when your boys were safe at home in WW2 ( until the Japanese started ) ours were cannon fodder and shock troops. I don't like your attitude. You may know something but you don't know merde about the world my friend. Get an education! Caper I'm sorry if I drew you into this but I don't like a certain poster.Caper you were speaking of Fort Drum. I have drank with some of those boys. Our drinking age is less and they are only an hour away across the border. They don't run either. They are a fine bunch of young men and have to defend thankless, paranoid, something or others.

(Sat May 23 1998 20:52 - ID#31868)
Bully Beef - the way you define "we" it would appear to be an incredibly wide
definition with as much longitude as latitude...Hmmmmmmmm, what's in a word eh!?!?!???????????????????????????????????????????????

(Sat May 23 1998 20:54 - ID#153102)
Friend, an islet of succor in the midst of chaos is THE PLAN.

Canadians are screwed, screwed, screwed. Socialism rules the Kingdom of the Grasping Grasshoppers.

(Sat May 23 1998 20:59 - ID#153102)
@When Did A Socialist Ever Come To Share ?
When he has surplus from taking from somebody else.

(Sat May 23 1998 21:01 - ID#26793)
Swiss report on Nazi gold to be released Monday

Bully Beef
(Sat May 23 1998 21:02 - ID#259261)
Tolerant 1 ...Point made and my mistake.
Shellers diclaimer goes here.

Bully Beef
(Sat May 23 1998 21:02 - ID#259261)
Tolerant 1 ...Point made and my mistake.
Shellers diclaimer goes here.

(Sat May 23 1998 21:07 - ID#31868)
mozel - forever invited, however, if you would, slight advance notice so that I may
have the glasses polished, the candles lit and the almonds freshly cracked so that the brandy is served at its best...

(Sat May 23 1998 21:07 - ID#162241)
Goldbugs hanging in there.........!!
Todays Toronto Globe and Mail carried a short article highlighting the futility of the gold investor, and in so many words, telling them they are crazy!. Sure feels like it at times and no more so than now.

We are probably at the end of a 40 year run on the paper currency ride... ( at least we believe it to be so ) . But, I'm afraid that this could take a few more years to play itself out. Remember, 3 or 4 more years to wind down a 40 year boom is not long, except if you've taken a financial beating relative to the rest of those boomers around you!


Bullish about bullion? Read this

Saturday, May 23, 1998

By Douglas Goold

YOU'VE really got to ask yourself how gold bugs can keep the faith year after year, particularly after

a year as disastrous as 1997. As Gold Fields Mineral Service Ltd.'s just published Gold 1998

reminds us, last year's average price of $331 ( U.S. ) an ounce was the lowest in 18 years, and the

worst in 26 years if inflation is taken into account. The 14.6-per-cent fall in the price was the greatest

since 1984.

Last December's nadir of $283, which is just below the 1985 low of $284.25, looks even more pitiful

when you convert that 13-year price to its current dollar level of $424.

Had enough? There's more, much more. Look at the gold price chart going back to the beginning of

the 1970s, when then-president Richard Nixon allowed the price to float. If you bought gold any time

after 1980, when inflation and interest rates peaked, chances are you lost money. The explanation is

clear from the inflation chart, which shows the close relationship between inflation and the

inflation-adjusted gold price ( it also shows why investors have bought gold as a hedge against

inflation ) .

If all this isn't enough to make you despondent, look at the final chart, which illustrates how your

brilliant gold investment has performed compared with the U.S. stock market.

But gold is still an important commodity, particularly to Canadian investors.

Gold stocks have traditionally made up about 10 per cent of the weighting of the TSE 300 index,

though that weighting has been sliced in half to 5.1 per cent. According to Gold Fields' publication,

the Bible of the industry, Canada remains the world's fourth-largest producer, after South Africa, the

United States and Australia. Barrick Gold Corp. has fallen to the fourth-largest producer in the world

from second, while Placer Dome Inc. has moved up to fifth place from sixth, behind leaders Anglogold

and Newmont.

Gold Fields has always been cautious about offering opinions. But even it picks up on 1997's

"disinvestment" of 260 tonnes by North American and European investors to suggest that attitudes

toward gold have changed -- for the worse: "The reasons include a more positive outlook on the

economy ( that is, the expectation of continued growth with low inflation ) and a negative view of the

gold market's fundamentals ( above all, the probability of further official sector gold sales ) ."

A reading of Gold 1998 leaves one with the sense that unless there is a runup in inflation or a

weakening in the U.S. dollar, the currency in which gold is bought and sold, the price of gold

( currently $300 ) isn't likely to improve significantly. The authors admit that "in the absence of a

serious inflationary threat, the gold price is unlikely to rally very strongly, even if last year it was

rather oversold on the basis of somewhat exaggerated concerns as to the future level of central bank


Indeed, the publication almost confesses to catering to a marginal audience. "With the withdrawal of

mainstream investors over recent years," it concludes, "the buy-side of the market has been

increasingly left to the so-called `gold bugs' and others with a traditional attachment to gold." Those

others, including Indians, Pakistanis and ethnic Chinese living in the West, were aggressive buyers of

gold when the price dipped below $300.

Those keen on gold can take solace in the fact that with prices so low, the industry will consolidate,

with strong players such as Barrick becoming even stronger as weaker companies capitulate.

The key question now is how much gold the European central bank will decide to hold. The market

has already discounted a 10- to 20-per-cent reserve holding. A higher level is possible, because the

most powerful member-states hold a lot of gold, with Germany coming in at 28 per cent and France

at 47 per cent. A meeting of the governing council is scheduled for June 2 but a decision is not likely

to come until July.

(Sat May 23 1998 21:09 - ID#31868)
Bully Beef - into the night I raise a glass, as fine a gulp as Cuervo Central may
send to you and yours............gulp.............Namaste'

(Sat May 23 1998 21:15 - ID#113316)
I am confused with all the talk about deflation. Certain prices in the US have fallen due in large part to the strong US dollar. On the other hand, certain prices in Japan have fallen despite a weak yen. On still a third hand, certain prices in Thailand, Indonesia, Korea, Brazil, Russia, Mexico, etc. have gone up sharply due in large part to weaker currencies. It seems to me there are just too many hands!

According to the monetarists, inflation ( or deflation ) is a monetary phenomenon. The money supply in both Japan and the US has been rising sharply. What countries could you single out that have not had an increasing money supply? How then, can there be deflation?

To me, falling commodity prices expressed in dollars is not a sign of deflation! We have had many posts at Kitco from people outside the US making the observation that in their markets precious metals are in a bull market already!

It is my opinion that we are in a worldwide currency crisis. It has shown up big time in Asia, and may appear in other areas of the world at any moment, e.g., Russia, Brazil, Mexico, etc. Although this may sound strange, the US dollar itself has the potential at any time to become the next currency to fall.

Think about it. The US has a record trade deficit. The US is the largest debtor nation ( perhaps with more foreign debt than all other countries combined ) . Recent economic measures of the US dollar places it at 30% overvalued against certain other currencies. The dollar is "strong" vs the yen, but Japan is running over a $5 billion monthly trade surplus with the US, Japan holds a few hundred billion in US assets, Japan's interest rates are under 2% whereas US interest rates are 3% to 4% higher. I wonder what would happen to the dollar if Japan raised their interest rates to 5% or 6%? If capital flows ever reversed themselves, how would the dollar fare?

If we are primarily involved in a currency crisis, then what is the solution? Go back to fixed exchange rates? Maybe. However, this currency crisis coincides with the CBs decision to sell and lease their gold reserves. I seriously doubt if the Asian crisis would have been nearly as bad if the Asian CBs maintained 30% gold backing of their currencies!

PH in LA
(Sat May 23 1998 21:16 - ID#225408)
In the Footsteps of Giants?
In response to the deafening silence swirlingaroundmy absense for the past several days I will only say that I too was locked out of Kitco. After rebuilds of the desktop, re-installations of all programs, inicialization of one hard drive, ( it is still not functional ) consultation with my ISP tech support, with Apple tech support, and a note of commiseration from Bart Kitner himself, I was mysteriously readmitted this morning as if nothing had happened.

During my involuntary exile I too visited the Kitco2 site for the first time out of curiosity and was appropriately disgusted ( and yes, amused for but an instant ) and would like to go on record here and now that I will never post on that forum in the company of those morons. Any post that ever appears there purporting to be from me will actually be from some other moron, not this one!

I will be gone for a time ( sailing on Santa Monica Bay for the rest of the Memorial Day weekend ) in case anyone inquires about me.

(Sat May 23 1998 21:20 - ID#288155)
On the other hand, Toronto Mail, gold matters BECAUSE...
The year 1971 was a milestone in the history of money and credit. Previously, in the worlds most developed countries, money ( and hence credit ) was tied to a positive value: the value of a well-defined quantity of a good of well-defined quality. In 1971 this tie was cut. Ever since, money has been tied not to positive but to negative values -- the value of debt instruments.

This innovation has had two immediate consequences, both of which are pointedly ignored in the technical and scholarly literature on the subject: ( 1 ) the power to reduce the worlds total debt in the course of normal payments has been lost: total indebtedness can now be reduced only through default or through currency depreciation; ( 2 ) countries have lost the option to balance their current accounts with the rest of the world: each country has to cope with unending deficits.

The exception is a couple of countries that have been coerced into holding the debt of the world, upon which the burden of default and currency depreciation will eventually fall: Germany and Japan. As a result of these two features the worlds monetary system, which previously was patterned on the model of an anchor, is now patterned on the model of a weather-vane.
Antal E. Fekete
Whither Gold

(Sat May 23 1998 21:21 - ID#300202)
Bully Beef-No Prob
Just like I love it when a woman talks sexy, I also love rationalized
spirited debate, but wud sooner it face to face. My difficulties with
spirited debate in this type of atmosphere is not being able to determine
motivation nor personalities. Many posters are clearly articulate &
thus wud lead one to believe knowledgeable, but rationality may be hard
to judge. This wud be applicable to all posters incl. yours truly. I
however can see where change is occuring rapidly & most do not see. I
watch because of personal experience, however I am rudderless at the moment. I am concerned. Perhaps Mozel is correct, however, may be too
dramatic for Canadian Bacon guys. Mozel, with all respect-what is your motive????? Bully-I wud like to converse with u sometime shud we ever be
graced by ur presence in Cape Breton. Gotta go for another wine & listen to my wife talk sexy. Regards.

(Sat May 23 1998 21:31 - ID#287186)
Headlines 2000
Citing the vital importance of computers to our nation's welfare and security and the growing consolidation in the industry, President Clinton today signed an Executive Order nationalizing the U.S. Computer Industry. Recognizing that government can not directly manage the industy he has established a new cabinet level department to oversee the computer development and allocation. Partnerships of private enterprise and government oversight shall insure that hereafter the nation's computer industry shall be managed for the benefit of everyone, not just the priviledged few. The prices of computer hardware, software, technical services and communications shall hereafter be treated like a public utility to insure that everyone who needs computers and computer services can receive them. Government standards will be imposed on all hardware and software to insure that all computers are hereafter compatible with each other. No longer will users have to struggle with software and hardware conflicts. Every computer will operate the same. Training can be standardized. Research and development will be focused on maintaining a consistent computing environment that any person can understand.

(Sat May 23 1998 21:34 - ID#153102)
Damned if I know my motive.
Composing clarifies for the composer.
Just connecting the dots as I see 'em.

(Sat May 23 1998 21:52 - ID#300202)
Mozel-Wud rather be a drummer.
Bully-my attempts at being rational are now futile. When I lived in Upper
Canada, I became aware of the world of conspiracy/ies. At times u feel
like u are chasing shadows & although u know they exist u never catch
them. I find it difficult to discuss specifics in this manner & on this forum, however, there wud appear to be like minds here. You shud look at
the lives of Mulrooney/Bush along with the Trudeau/Sinclair connection
& of course their son Justin now at the Royal Military College. He is
truly of Sinclair blood. Sorry to sound spooky. Guess that goes with the turf I'm presently on. Cheers to all. Nother wine/more sexy talk.

(Sat May 23 1998 21:53 - ID#257136)
@ squirrel: First- are you kin to the frugal squirrel who has the fine web page? If you are you only
need to say so!
Secondly: About sixteen years ago I had occasion to go into the Murrah blg in OKC. several times.
As I recall, the first floor had a very high mezzanine type ceiling. It also was set back from the front wall about twenty feet.
I later learned the front above the first floor was a four ( 4 ) x five ( 5 ) foot REINFORCED CONCRETE header which ran the full length of the bldg on the front side.

My experience ( 10 years ) as a hard-rock miner, coupled with knowledge gained from the U.S. Army ( Infantry ) circa 1950-51, tell me it was a physical impossibility for the bldg to have been destroyed by an unshaped and comparatively- loosely packed explosive. I have usewd the ammonium nitrate above and below ground. It just cannot do what it had been claimed it did.
The first of the two shocks recorded by the seismograph in Norman ( O.U. )
had to have been from the shaped charges which had been placed for the specific purpose of blowing the pillars which supported the header spoken of above.
The second was the shock from the comparatively mild explosion of the truck bomb.
Directly across the street from the Murrah was ( IS? ) an old building built from steel trusses and with the walls merely bricked in as was done at about the turn of the century.
The windows were knocked out of this bldg and I believe it may have been razed since I visited the site on the Thanksgiving following the debacle.
The point is, however, that it was approximately equidistant from the truck as was the Murrah.
Why was it not damaged as was Murrah?
It had not been mined as the Murrah was!!
Anyone with explosives knowledge and experience can tell you that a charge must be shaped and/or placed in a hole to effectively destroy re-inforced concrete.
These folks of whom we speak are animals.
They care not one whit for you, me or any one else outside their own circle.
My personal paranoia cannot get any worse. I hope I have not added to anyone else's.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:00 - ID#288155)
Silverfox--How can we discuss inflation/deflation...

with regards to money? We dont HAVE money, we have debt!
Which we have inflated {:- )
and if debt deflation = default, I guess we can deflate debt...

I think the terms are from another time, another place
when money have some modicum of meaning...
In this time, in this place, one finds them confusing at best

(Sat May 23 1998 22:00 - ID#227168)
The Bull Never Dies
Bob Hope The Great American But remember the blown red gutted bodies of Vietnam and the body bags this slime supported and the humor he found when Americans died in the fields for the political slime like Nixon and Ford.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:03 - ID#255151)
Memorial Day Weekend

Thought it would an appropriate time to bring up old posters. Of course there is Ted, who is mainly in Maine. Short Bull, Auroelf, BIG TRADER, WW, Blond, that nice Jewish Grandmother, Capt. Kev, Long John Silver, Ron in Saco'tomato ( sp? ) , Scotty, and Vieserre. And then there is MoneyBags, and my favorite, Gloomy Gus. These are the ones that immediately come to mind, there are others. Namaste!

Bully Beef
(Sat May 23 1998 22:07 - ID#260119)
Margret Sinclair Trudeau Kemper is in a mental institution in B.C.
She suffers from manic ( bi-polar ) depression. Too bad. Hope the boys elude it. Royal Military College is a good solid political move in the English manner. Quebecers would prefer he studied art at the Sorbonne.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:08 - ID#300202)
Bombing @ OKC
My hard time with this conspiracy wud be how to silence the numbers
that wud be involved in the investigation. Certainly Military Personel
wud be involved along with ATF, FBI, CIA ( in the shadows ) Ok City PD,
State PD, to a limited degree US Secret Service along with countless
other officials. In short-everyone wud want in. How do u shut so many
lips & how many of those wud have to tell their wives & u can of course go on & on.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:14 - ID#153102)
Cordon the site, which they did.
Raze the evidence, which they did.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:14 - ID#300202)
Ah Yuh-am aware of Margaret's present circumstances & her background
justifies same. It is not Margaret. It's her bloodline. Sounds like
deep sh#t, but it's true. No Justin Trudeau is not 666 but is part of
the plan.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:15 - ID#27341)
Thanks, keep them coming

Bully Beef
(Sat May 23 1998 22:17 - ID#260119)
Salute Caper ... Goodnight.
Have a good Memorial Day Americans. And if you don't like your government... participate in democracy and get rid of them. There are noble polititians ( they probably just sleep around a lot. )

(Sat May 23 1998 22:19 - ID#342376)
The deception.......
I appreciated Donald's post about Social Security investing in the stock market. I've seen that before. If the markets wobble or fall, which they will, no doubt the plunge protection team will dream that one up, and you know what, it would work for a bit. All that money from Social Security chasing stocks with everyone else, creating money out of thin air. Sounds like massive inflation to me. So all the baby boomers expect to retire in 10 to 30 years with a million dollars ( or two or three ) I guess no one thinks about what happens when they start to sell to get their nestegg. Lets assume they can sell in 10-30 years with a million dollars. So here we have the largest segment of the population, all with a million dollars or two. Sounds like REALLY massive inflation to me. The worst part is that people believe all this.

Bully Beef
(Sat May 23 1998 22:21 - ID#260119)
Caper ... your last post requires smiley thing.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:23 - ID#153102)
All this SS blah blah is what is known as a diversion.

They are just as likely to buy the DOW with Food Stamps.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:27 - ID#300202)
Prime investigator's wud had to have been pre-selected. Still wud have been difficult to limit the support given the panic situation. Don't
forget-given the magnitude along with the complexities, it wud have been difficult to limit total access. You also have to account for civilian
staff that had to have access without raising suspician incl. civil authorities, ambulance attendees etc, etc, etc. Wud require surgical planning.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:27 - ID#287186)
I am not the famed Frugal Squirrel - but I am darned frugal
but not as frugal as my parents who were 16 and 17 in 1929.

Caper, they could keep people quiet same as the drug rings keep the cops and local government quiet around here. Money, threats and an occasional body to reinforce the threat.

A.J., the building across the street eh! Hmmmm. Damning evidence I'd say. I saw a special on TV about a building demolition company - how they used shaped charges precisely placed and sequentially timed.
I agree - there is no way that a truck bomb would do that much total, collapsed-to-the-ground-damage. The seismograph record. Could the feds have their internal charges triggered by a sensor listening for the truck bomb? Otherwise how could they have timed it just right?

The more I know the I want to get outta here - but to where?
Check out Joe's post today on K2 about a NYC bartender.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:34 - ID#153102)
It's not like its hidden or concealed. It's not like people have not talked. You imagine difficulties that are not there when the right people are taking cues from the right people.
It's just not officially seen or acknowledged.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:35 - ID#284255)
Economics Professor Says There Won't Be Bank Runs

(Sat May 23 1998 22:36 - ID#342376)
A comment from the Rothchild camp.......
I must get two or three promotional investment newsletters a week, if not more. One came this week called "Financial Sentinel". I flipped through it and there is one article called "Inside the Gold Market" by none other than Michael Kosares. At the end there is an interesting quote from someone named Frederick Lips who was a former director for Rothchild Zurich- "even before the debt-laden 20th century reaches its end, you will all experience a gold market where people are no longer concerned about supply and demand, but on the contrary, will want to own gold at any price" Sounds like ANOTHER, yes?

(Sat May 23 1998 22:39 - ID#342376)
Ooops, that's spelled Rothschild
Wouldn't want to upset them now, would I?

(Sat May 23 1998 22:40 - ID#153102)
Air pressure detonators on the charges on the building columns.

Squirrel, I notice Soros and Stallone are headed to Argentina. Peso is tied to $US. Tied together, burn together, I'd say.
If you happen to go by there, tidy up those confederate graves and leave some flowers if you can.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:42 - ID#284255)
The rest is a Tower of Babel

(Sat May 23 1998 22:43 - ID#433172)
Ever have a dream where you were paid off with paper money and when you counted it up later it didn't add up? Ever have a dream when you were paid off with gold or silver and it didn"t add up? Gold and silver dreams are "correct", the unconsious of humans insticntively relies on them as true. Jewelry of course reflects these values. No doubt man is hung up on the metal.

When C. Shultz was asked if he was worried about deflation he replied," Yeah sure, that comes right after my fear of being eatin by phiranahs" Deflation dosen't fit anybodies agenda.

Inflation can pay the debt,S.S.,pension plans, medicade, mortgages, you name it. It's politicaly do-able, maybe an eventual necessity. Check out the yahoo business wire for last week, the good times are rolling.

With deflation paper can be king.

I am securing those things vital to existence and adding a little gold and silver for what they might be worth, without compromising any poise in the everyday world.

When the Soviet Union collapsed I worte the Embassy advising them to make wheat availabe to every person, and keep thier options open. If every person in Russia had a wheat supply social disruption would be avoidable since aas long as you can eat you can think furthur about any problem.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:46 - ID#300202)
@ Mozel
We are a brain dead society & want to believe what we are told & as
u clearly relate to our being jerked away from our sporting events, then
reality sinks in I used to watch ABC/NBC/CBS etc. Now I no longer believe. I am a Kitco Disciple-I DO NOT BELIEVE. Had the occasion once
to watch a Costra Nostra Indoctrination on video. It was not what I
anticipated i.e. Hollywood glorified. Middle of winter-cold barn, 45
gal drum providing heat, less than glamorous men lookin' goofy while
reading the oath from a piece of paper. It destroyed the old me.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:51 - ID#190411)
I hope your wife can talk some sense into you as mine does.
Questioning mozel about his motivations has to be one of the least fruitful interrogations that I have seen here.
Mozel, on balance, is the strongest advocate of freedom that I have run across on the net, may have some flaws in your vision of what the world should be, but, he doesn't peddle anything but the republican ideas of the founders of the United States.
Vronsky, wants to be opaque. I asked a simple "Who are you?", to him when he started to recommend specific South African gold stocks.
His reply was something to the effect. "Who are you to ask of Herr Beethoven?"
Beethoven was and is better at composing than Polarbear and Vronsky are at picking stocks such as the fabulous RANDGOLD. Their first big writeup has been such a good deal. Just ask Studio.R.,and myself.
No, it's men like mozel, and the good women, that hold the good ideal before us.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:56 - ID#284255)
Read M.K.'s "The Great Gold Comeback"
You will notice lots more.

(Sat May 23 1998 22:59 - ID#223391)
How has it gone with the recommendations? As I didn't take them, I didn't follow their history.

(Sat May 23 1998 23:00 - ID#254201)
IDT - Cycles
I'm still looking for the holly grail of cycles. In the mean time I follow others cycle work, Favors and Ascani are pretty good. I'm more interestd in seasonal trends, like the grains top out between mid June amd mid July, the S&P tends to have tops in August and big drops in October. To answer your question I use the input of a varity of sources and if several of them line up I'll try to tie them in with potential highs and lows on a chart. If you run across something that works consistently let me know.

(Sat May 23 1998 23:07 - ID#287186)
Auto Industry at standstill during Y2K
Sharefin, thanks for the reference which states in part: that Ralph J. Szygenda, chief information officer at General Motors, states ""Let's say that a key sole-source supplier of brake valves shuts down as a result of a year 2000 problem. As a result, on day two, two plants that produce master brake cylinders and clutch master cylinders have to stop production because they don't have those valves. On day three, as motor vehicle assembly plants begin to run out of parts, production falls to about one-third of usual volume. By day four, all assembly plants shut down. And with no orders coming in because of the shutdown, hundreds of plants supplying parts to the assembly lines also shut down, from major engine plants to mom-and-pop subcontractors. That's the worst-case scenario--and yet it's a very real threat."

This is not hypothetical, it happened in Japan recently. Darn I hate it when I read so much ( Economist, Business Week, Wall Street Journal, etc.} that I can not remember where I read it!
A part supplier failed ( was it the Kobe quake? ) . It brought one of the big boys to their knees as the scrambled to find alternative suppliers. Anybody who could make a few dozen a day was given specifications and support. Even the competitors pitched in. It was like a family of every manufacturer in Japan helping out their brother. They had to because, as detailed above, it would ripple throughout the country.

(Sat May 23 1998 23:13 - ID#342376)
@ Mozel
The diversion is more than from the government. It is from our hearts. IMHO, human relations are deteriorating at a rapid rate. We get small snipets of exchanges with each other and no one is present at the time. They are on their cellular phones or thinking about the next deadline. Today's relations are imitations and in fact the whole world is becoming imitaions of imitations. We imitate TV and movies, which are imitations. And we are isolated from each other more and more. Technology is in part to blame but not entirely. When we can't handle it, prozac is given rather than addressing the real problem which is that we need real, genuine, developing, nurturing one on one contact with each other. Whoever posted about the school shooting had a point. The classes change so much and the class size so large that these kids don't develope deep friendships. People are not close in their hearts. Money, sadly, has also become by default a diversion away from the real problems.

(Sat May 23 1998 23:23 - ID#255190)
That looks like a good catch. Certainly is exactly what ANOTHER has been aluding to all these months. Time table is also the same as recent posts on USAGold. if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and .. quack, quack .. then it must be a DUCK, right HenryD_A???

If this is the case then we have been give a gift.

(Sat May 23 1998 23:23 - ID#300202)
I totally agree from what I read, however ( caveat attached to most of my
statements ) , motivation does concern me. But George to Jerry-Motivation
is gud, isn't is Jerr. I came here for gold advice, looking comfort in
my extreme investment loss & now I find similar like minds-those who
believe, those who wanna' believe & those who believe but will never admit. Hope this makes sense. Gotta go. One more wine. She's startin' to
like me now ( 5 th wine ) . She's also becoming one of us. Back in the early
A.M. seekin' comfort & security in my soon to be gains. Nite all. On
behalf of Ted-Go Gold!!!!

(Sat May 23 1998 23:23 - ID#153102)
@crazytimes @Squirrel
I think so. The more government plans and schedules and demands, the less the individual can plan and schedule and call their own. So, I think people suffer mentally and emotionally from this sense of having no control over their lives. Some people just snap before they're doped down.

@Squirrel The story about the Japanese manufacturers brings out what I hate and despise most about socialism: the fact it manipulates mankind's social nature for the evil, selfish ends of the elite.

(Sat May 23 1998 23:47 - ID#190411)
I said to Herr Vronsky at the time that he was hawking the shares of the stupendous moneymaking machine that is RANDGOLD, that I shoould have bought them the day after they were first hyped on gold-beagle.riches.

I asked him of what he was made that he would give to we Kitcoites the secret key to untold wealth.

It would be instructive to examine the price of the stock versus the date posted on His website. Also the golden-eagle mine that advertises on his site.

He doesn't have any biographical informtion on himself on his site that I can find, so, Herr vronsky, who you be'es?

(Sat May 23 1998 23:50 - ID#287193)
Date: Thu May 21 1998 22:15
Servhard ( @ Allen ( USA ) and friends....... ) ID#287193:
...have read all of your 256 verses.....
but look at this:

these few tell all.....don't you agree !!

(Sat May 23 1998 23:51 - ID#287186)
Take a peek at my recent post on K2.
Thought I'd post it there instead of K1.
Maybe there is another forum better suited.
But since we are all sharing gloom & doom info...
I look for lessons & ideas from any reasonable source.

(Sat May 23 1998 23:53 - ID#153102)
Do you think now is a good time to hit Caper up for a loan ?