Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Tue May 26 1998 00:00 - ID#186147)
wrong man
Spock: Theat was Dole! He admitted it the other day. Now we know why he seemed so nonchalant about losing the election. He was distracted by the erection.: )

(Tue May 26 1998 00:00 - ID#238422)
Brother Tom,

As you like to say: Patience, my son...
I do not know which way it will be going this week,
and I was not actually looking...I know we shall
overcome some day...

In the meantime, do not wait, try to enjoy life:
open it, have a good shot and a good "long-n-hard",
I mean pickle. I will be with you in a few days, yes?

Good night, brother.

(Tue May 26 1998 00:00 - ID#287193)
Thank you for your reply.
You know how it is with Pandora's box. My only reason for asking you in my three post's is the concern I have re: Grace and Condemnation in regards to 1.Cor 2:13-16 and Heb 1:1+2. As to Jo 3:16+17..more or less
most Christian's call it the Bible in 2 verses? Whosoever does not understand these 2 verses sure can not get the warnings about the END.
Grace and Truth came by the only WAY.
I hope you are not offended, but if--forgive me.
With his PEACE and GRACE,
in love with best regards,

(Tue May 26 1998 00:01 - ID#286230)
I agree. But keep in mind that things always change for better or worse. I started taking baths in a laundry tub in the 1950''s in the middle of the kitchen floor with water heated with a wood stove. Things look
better then--looking back. I don't recall my parents thinking things were all that good at the time. When we got the hot water tape installed life got better though by everyone's account.

(Tue May 26 1998 00:02 - ID#210114)
Thanx Oldman
I was actually making a joke about Clinton's ( in ) fidelity. ;- )

(Tue May 26 1998 00:03 - ID#252197)
Old west thief
I believe that EVERYONE should own a gun or that

EVERYONE should not own a gun.

Sound ridiculous. That's the obvious complication

regarding the gun issue.

Regarding criminal behavior, I highly recommend

the book INSIDE THE CRIMINAL MIND by Stanton E.

Samenow. See book review:

(Tue May 26 1998 00:04 - ID#186147)
Spock: Liddy said that he might have lost the election, but he did not lose the erection.: ) Honest, she did.: )

(Tue May 26 1998 00:09 - ID#252197)
Subject line should have read: Old west thief
"First your guns, then your gold." It didn't
print out the full subject sentence.

Strad Master
(Tue May 26 1998 00:15 - ID#250297)
Aw shucks...
NICK@C, OLDMAN, STUDIO R, & RON: You guys literally bring tears to my eyes. Thanks for the warm welcome back. I've often said that the best part of my getting into PM investing was that it brought me to Kitco where so many sweet and caring people are. ( Speaking of which, I had the great pleasure of meeting "Goldbug 23" and his charming wife yesterday. We got to spend several hours together at his home and had a grand time. ) I'm well aware of all my blessings and to lose sight of them over the mere loss of money ( enormous as it may be ) would be both foolish and ungrateful. When it comes to such things I am reminded of the great story of King Solomon who asked that a ring be made for him that would help to give him perspective in both bad times and good. When he received it, inscribed on it were the words "This, too, shall pass." Anyhow, being gifted to hear and be able to perform some of the world's most Divine music makes it hard for me to be depressed for too long. Thanks again, guys. Time to put the kids to bed. I'll be back later. ( Oh yes... I still have my Strad. Played a concert on it just last Thursday night. ) ( Studio R - check your mailbox. )

(Tue May 26 1998 00:15 - ID#186147)
James 2: If everyone were disarmed, as the liberals want, where would we be? Why, back to the days when the strongest young man with the biggest knife was the boss. The personal firearm is the single greatest civilizing invention in history. To make it simple enough for even a Ph.D. liberal to understand, consider the OJ thing: The LAPD says the crime took all of 2 minutes. This means that OJ could kill 60 unarmed white folks in one hour. And he was 48 years old with arthritis in both hands! Now, let's say that, halfway through that hour, he ran into my 115 pound 55 year old wife with her "licensed-to-carry and trained-to-use" S&W Bodyguard. What would happen then? Why, 30 lives would be saved, that's what. Of course that dont count the late, great Orenthal James.: )

(Tue May 26 1998 00:16 - ID#228128)
Can't come up with the words to tell you how badly I feel. Don't leave the site, I always appreciate your posts.

(Tue May 26 1998 00:33 - ID#316232)
I respect your input, but your review of history falls into a common pattern of blaming Reagan for the errors of capitalism.

Bretton Woods fell through because Lyndon Johnson tried his 'guns and butter' economics and it didn't work. Excessive trade deficits killed the dollar before Nixon was elected. I can remember an economics professor moaning over Johnson's blatant attempt to get something for nothing. He was 'managing the economy' for the good of us all and he blew it.

(Tue May 26 1998 00:46 - ID#252197)
absence of love
Oldman: When my dad came home from WWII he said
"The next world war will eventually be fought
with spears and clubs." I guess as long as there
is hatred there will be deadly weapons of some

(Tue May 26 1998 00:48 - ID#288369)
@Nytol (copyright Teddo).............
And may we all somehow have a PROFITABLE takes a profit to fund socialism!!

(Tue May 26 1998 01:04 - ID#284255)
Korea is down approx 10% from it's previous low made in December.
Breaking that low pertains a plummet to a new low.

(Tue May 26 1998 01:06 - ID#43460)
james2__A Thanks!
I had no idea that Samenow's book was still in print. I'll rush out and order a copy of my own! Here's some basic info about another classic:

Bill Buckler
(Tue May 26 1998 01:13 - ID#256381)
South Korea
Sharefin ( 1:04 ) According to my numbers, South Korea is now trading at 303.03. That's down 19.2% from its level at the start of 1998. There is a general strike planned for late May/early June.

At the same time, the banks are supposed to start weeding out all the non performing company loans from their books. The debt levels of the Chaebols ( large corporate conglomerates ) are about 5 times their assets on average.

This is the nation, don't forget, that was on the brink of default last December when the IMF rode to the rescue. It is also the nation that had a "whip round" to collect all of its citizens Gold so that it could raise some "hard" currency to make ends meet.

(Tue May 26 1998 01:19 - ID#43460)
You know, I wrote a synopsis of revolutionary progression with references a couple of years ago, then lost it in a disk drive crash trying to install Microsoft's drivespace utility. When I first started posting at Kitco I tried to post a shorter version of it from memory, getting fouled up with my telnet server's version of editing hotkeys so that it turned out unreadable. Now even though I have the ppp server I've been postponing rewriting the thing. I should do so, so we could have another point of reference for our disagreement based on historical observations and shared terminology. IMHO

Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug
(Tue May 26 1998 01:32 - ID#432214)
NASDBB: MINE Golden Eagle
Rhody you were far too kind on your analysis of the a/n company.

1 ) The press release of May 22 stating that the company has 157 million inferred oz of gold is:

A ) An attempt by Andy Smith to undermine the global gold market by adding another 157 million oz to the supply side.

B ) An attempt by Walsh & Co at a come back play.

C ) A European bank unloading its entire gold supply via Golden Eagle

D ) An FBI, SEC, NASD reverse scam.

2 ) The probable demise of this investment grade company will be:

A ) Y2K problems with the mining equipment.

B ) Lack of institutional coverage and financing.

c ) Low gold price

d ) The SEC pulling the plug.

3 ) The company's Harvard educated geologist who calculated the results is:

A ) In a tax haven with lots of stock to sell you.

B ) In the trunk of a car.

C ) Really a poet.

D ) Related to "ANOTHER"

Sorry to be so negative but sometimes I can't help myself. Secondly If this is a scam then all web sites ( without naming anyone ) that allow these individuals to advertise will drive away legitimate companies and letter writers.

A one oz golden eagle in the hand ( .9999 ) is worth 157 million in the moose pasture. IMHO

Go Gold

(Tue May 26 1998 01:35 - ID#410215)
..... Strad .....

You are indeed a gentleman

Must be the music in your heart

You know I always wish you well


(Tue May 26 1998 01:40 - ID#284255)
I follow Yahoo and hav'nt seen it that low yet.
Pretty amazing how much the indice osscillates when it is already so low.^ks11

Whats the target 200 or lower?

(Tue May 26 1998 01:42 - ID#284255)
On K2, Ziva is talking about recent breakdowns in the Middle East.
Any news on this and what are the expectations of further breakdows?

(Tue May 26 1998 01:42 - ID#252127)
Homestake makes offer to buy 49.4% of the Prime Resources shares in Public hands


(Tue May 26 1998 01:44 - ID#252127)
Homestake makes offer to buy 49.4% of the Prime Resources shares in Public hands

(Tue May 26 1998 01:44 - ID#220325)
Strad Master--Welcome back!
Sorry to hear about your misfortune, if it is of any comfort I have had multi-disappointments in the market also. Nonetheless you are still the great person that everyone still appreciates. Judging from your visits and dinners with others on this site your richness resides in you and not in your wealth. You bring happiness to others through your music and your being, please continue to share your treasure of knowledge, wealth of experience numerous talents with us.

(Tue May 26 1998 01:46 - ID#75206)
Great post on why guns are the great equilizer. You're right on, of course, they have been the greatest civilizing influence in history. The Founding Fathers recognized it and, with the 2nd Amemdment, insured the populace could arm itself against the thugs and outlaws to whom laws mean nothing.

Being the great equalizing force they are, you would think liberals would love guns. After all isn't there mantra equal results for all, regardless of ability or effort?

(Tue May 26 1998 01:51 - ID#220325)
Pand Thanks for the great charts
If you have time would it be possibe to post the Platinum chart? thanks

(Tue May 26 1998 01:52 - ID#287193)
@ only for the ....Programmers and Millennium bugs
run across this on S.I. site
you have to add ?1733620 after the html

(Tue May 26 1998 01:59 - ID#340344)
I checked the Kitco silver and gold charts just now, and
the horror I saw had nothing to do with prices, but rather,
with the graphics. Say it isn't real....

(Tue May 26 1998 02:08 - ID#287193)
should you not be able
to get into the url
Date: Tue May 26 1998 01:52
Servhard ( @ only for the ....Programmers and Millennium bugs ) ID#287193:
run across this on S.I. site:
this is part of it:

' David Parsley

BRITAIN's leading millennium-bug-busters are being lured
to America by leading companies with offers of free flights
on Concorde every weekend and lucrative salary packages,
including bonuses and share options.
But American companies are reducing
their staff shortages at a far greater rate than their British
counterparts, by raiding them for staff, offering
programmers up to 5,000 a day, and ensuring they can take
Concorde flights home every weekend to see their families.'

(Tue May 26 1998 02:25 - ID#263133)
So, is it deja' vue now w/Platinum, as in Platinum, 3 2 5, to quote one of an other ilk.

(Tue May 26 1998 02:38 - ID#340302)
Back from Vegas just in time for "Gold Consolidation Month"
...beginning with Consolidation #1...Homestake buying out the public shareholders of Prime...truly a great exercise of "Carpe Diem!" by a company seizing a great opportunity in buying out the remainder of Prime's absurdly undervalued stock.

Homestake's stock price should reflect a positive market reaction to the move.

I expect Homestake's stock price to DOUBLE by the end of the year.

Just the first in a series of imminent gold company consolidations.

The action should whip up a great deal more interest in the XAU and gold itself...



John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 02:44 - ID#24135)
For Spock ..
The AVERAGE costs for various mining companies are
easily calculated from their quarterly results. You
are either arithmatically challenged ( likely since you
are a democratic socialist and possibly unable to add
things up ) or simply too lazy to make the effort
( see prior paren ) . I've posted the procedure with
examples on several occasions .. perhaps you dozed
off. It's too much work for me to do again and I have
mixed feelings about contributing to the profit of a
guy who wants to take OTHER PEOPLES money and do GOOD
THINGS with it like take away their ability to
DEFEND themselves.
I cannot think of a SINGLE NA MINE with AVERAGE costs
below 300 per oz. The last time I calculated ABX they
were 330. Most RSA mines NOW have AVERAGE costs WELL
BELOW 300. The Anglo group are pushing 260 average I
But frankly I think you should stick with YAHOO Info.
Dont believe what you read here. Maybe if you go broke
I can send you the other half of that ham sandwich if
I can clear it with aurator.

(Tue May 26 1998 02:45 - ID#340302)
My wife and I had a great time in Vegas....
...100% return on investment ( tax-free ) always makes the heart sing a little.



(Tue May 26 1998 02:53 - ID#340302)
Nevadans love Gold...
...the rest of the country may not be so enamored of the yellow metal at this moment...but there are certainly plenty of wealthy Nevadans who love the precious metal...and who are willing and ready to convert a nice pile of that paper green into hard assets.



(Tue May 26 1998 03:00 - ID#257148)

I'm always willing to share a ham sandwich.


(Tue May 26 1998 03:05 - ID#284255)
The sell recommendation issued by the Dow jones Timer on the Dow Jones Industrials Average on April 17th ( at 9167.50 points ) remains valid for the time being : . Sector rotations have already
taken place. Numerous stocks have dropped, but have not yet affected the large cap names or the Index stocks.

From an investment sector standpoint, all of them seem overvalued at the present time ( with the exception of software, telecom equipment, gold
mines and tobacco ) . You can view the changes which occured at .

In summary, times are not in favour of owning stocks given the present
market conditions. A great recipe for falling markets has come together:
A SELL signal has been issued on the broad market, investment sectors
are genuinely EXPENSIVE and stocks are generally OVERVALUED. Risk adverse investors should stay away from stocks for the time being even if some limited upside is never excluded.

John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 03:10 - ID#24135)
The Afrikaaner Paper
for tsclaw..
Look .. there is some truth in what the
paper says .. but .. lets just say that they
have an agenda.
The ANC talk like reds a lot. But they understand
money better every day. Most of them are bums.
A few like trevor manual the Finance Guy are
better than any of the wet creeps the Nats
EVER came up with.
The Communist Pary which flourished under
Nat rule is now broke and squealing. Same goes
for the unions.
I feel sorry for the Afikaaner. They had horrid
leadership for the last 20 years .. culminating
in that king of dorks de Klerc .. who ranks
above Mandela on my disgusting list. But they
helped bring it on themselves. When they moved,
they moved way too late, and they gave up much
more than they had to.
The ANC already have problems and have dropped
in latest Markinor poll to 54 % preference from
62 at the time of the past election. The Nats have
collapsed. The DP and the UEDM ( the party with Holomisa and
Meyer ) are the main beneficiaries. Im not sure
about the Freedom Front .. The remains of the old
Conservative Party.
Social Engineering is LESS likely under ANC
or an ANC coalition rule than it was with the
nats .. On TV .. the anti smoking Nazis are
ALL afrikaners .. So are the local gun control
nitwits.. This kind of thing seems to come
naturally to Dutch Germanic types. Blacks Africans
dont take well to this kind of thing. The ANC
has had to back off every time it has tried to
interfere in tribal affairs... or to make Blacks
pay GST or taxes for that matter.

John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 03:13 - ID#24135)
I knew I could count on you
Salty ..
Isn't it nice to SHARE ??

(Tue May 26 1998 03:24 - ID#250121)
silver threads and golden needles cannot mend this heart of mine
Your 18:30
"I'd rather have my kith and kin who died for immature ideals, in vain, overseas here to tend his lonesome mother than all the moments of silence of all the EJ's in the USA."

golden words. golden words.......

Pax vobiscum

I hope you see through this, perhaps i am not the person you think i was, but, in my eyes at least, you will always be welcome in my hearth and heart, and i regret upsetting you.


I know that many have had difficulty with this salty iconoclast's ugly mirror. But what we have all learned in this past 24 hours about our fellows ( and fellesses ) who are goldbugs drawn like months to the searing candle flame of kitco.

I have to kick sacred cows. It is part of my anarchistic, freedom-loving chaos-swimming lunatic psyche. I've had some very interesting email recently. No, I shan't diss apple-pie, despite one invitation, and no, I neither shall I rip ziva again, you can do it yourself :- )

like Nick@C says, you gotta get out to look in.

dinner served now

(Tue May 26 1998 03:37 - ID#432148)
Strad - Snowbird et al
We are gifted to have Strad back with us, and as he indicted we had the pleasure of meeting him and his charming wife and his father and three children yesterday. I can assure all they are as great as he comes across on this site. We agreed the best education one can get in the market is to lose money. Who among us has not had that experience? Great teacher.

(Tue May 26 1998 04:22 - ID#335379)
Guns/equal outcomes...

(Tue May 26 1998 04:22 - ID#340302)
Vegas, Gold, and Other Strange Things...
One thing I should underscore is this:

We greatly enjoyed Vegas on account of TWO primary factors:

1 ) We attended several important, interesting and worthwhile events.

2 ) We won!

However, I would suggest that Vegas is certainly NOT the great town it used to be. The primary negatives revolve around the fact that the town
has transmuted itself into a second rate version of Disneyland ( with slot machines and blackjack thrown in ) .

There are lines for everything...and zillions of kids running underfoot everywhere. The traffic moves at a snail's pace, about one inch every 30 minutes. The existing infrastructure for handling the large crowds is completely inadequate.

The great entertainment has vanished, replaced by animated robotic acts that perform repetitiously on the hour every hour. Exploding volcanoes, sinking pirate ships, and Atlantis above a fish tank...these are some of the things that have replaced Sammy Davis, Elvis, and Liberace.

Yes, it's Disneyland in the Desert.

Most of the great showrooms have closed...and the few that remain open no longer serve food...and several that serve drinks require patrons to line up in front of self-serve bars since the cocktail waitresses are disappearing everywhere. Good service is a thing of the past.

In the old days, when you went to a casino, everybody knew your name, from the bellman to the pit boss. Today, unless you are overtly famous, you will never be more than customer #01010101010.

Essentially, Vegas has evolved into the center of trailer park entertainment. There is no more more more sense of dangerous sin. Today, Vegas heralds its buffets and restaurants as though they were "entertainment." The only excitement served up is the kind of excitement tailored for a nine year old child.

Although there is talk of changing Vegas culture back to its former sophisticated ADULT nature, I personally think that will be an impossible task. The Pandora's Box has been opened and Vegas will never be the same again. Unfortunately, it has fallen too far.

In conclusion, I would suggest that if you want to visit Disneyland, then you are probably better off visiting the real thing rather than an ersatz, half-assed desert version of it.

Analogously, it is far more satisfying to buy real physical gold ( and TAKE DELIVERY! ) as opposed to purchasing gold paper.



(Tue May 26 1998 04:25 - ID#250121)
no cat among the pigeons here. you can relax.
Indeedy. Losing money is most sobering. In hindsight I am grateful that my lessons have been ( comparatively ) cheap. lesons like Don't trust a broker. Don't trust a newsletter writer. Don't trust a Company man. Don't trust real estate agents, antique dealers and art gallery owners. Don't trust the dissemblers and clever dicks. All lessons come at a price. Fortunately I'm still on credit side of ledger. Learning more and more about stop losses and exit points. that's before you get in.

I fear for those who have never made a bad "investment" perhaps they'll only need to make one bad investment. Like friends of mine purchasing real estate these past 8 months, and more.

News on the NZ$ front is most ungood. I shall sit on my hands ( one of the best investment strategies ) and watch my 'umble gold holdings increase in NZ$ terms. Perhaps exponentially like the gold:Rupiah, or Gold:won or Gold:Baht.

And to think that this gobmint was telling us peaons these last 3-5 years "NZ is part of Asia" 7 of our 10 largest trading partners are in Asia. Current account deficit in the stratosphere these past 6 months. As part of Asia, this W democracy is looking rather more like a banana dominion.

As Lord Bayden Powell, the founder of the Boy scouts, said

"Be prepared."

(Tue May 26 1998 04:26 - ID#335379)
Guns/ equal outcomes
Hello Drifter:
Yes hypocrisiy reigns, No guns for the people just the overlords.
Same old schtick.

(Tue May 26 1998 04:35 - ID#335379)
Hello Farfell:
Attend the Las Vegas fun Rally put on by the Pantera club.
Lots of beutiful cars on display on fremont street. it's free.
The club does it for fun every year in april. there are pantera races at the local race track. etc. Course you have to like Cars a bit. It is a blast.
otherwise Vegas is the pits. I hate doing conventions there.

(Tue May 26 1998 04:54 - ID#230376)

you hit a nerve. I took it personally. You bring your sandwich, I'll provide the dill pickles and mustard.We'll share the beer bill.

(Tue May 26 1998 05:13 - ID#386279)
Has everyone holstered their guns??
Now back to pm's.
Have a look at cherokee's silver chart from yestertday.
Now y'all know you have to get out yer see-through-plastic-ruler.
In this case any straight edge will do.
Just lay it on the 3 recent bottoms ( right-hand side ) .

"Well, I do declair," said Scarlet. "It sure is straight, Rhett honey."

Is this a trendline??
Will it bounce up from here??
Are the low stochastics ready for a turnaround??

Stay tuned, ladies and gentlemen. Same bat-time, same bat-channel.

(Tue May 26 1998 05:15 - ID#386279)
If you're gonna share the beer bill with an Antipodean, I sure hope you've got lots of gold!!!

(Tue May 26 1998 05:25 - ID#386279)
Now if'n y'all will have another look at that silver chart I just posted, y'all will see that Scarlet has already been violated.Don't believe everything you read on Kitco. Charts and the trendlines they portray don't always work. There are a lot of sorry silver purchasers out there. It is a highly manipulated market. Silver is gonna go up very far, very soon, maybe. Just ask LGB.

(Tue May 26 1998 05:43 - ID#386279)
Welcome to the Nick-hour.
Y'all know why I use the name Nick@C. Cause I like the pretty blue letters. Also easy to find when someone is objecting to something I said. Just put a@init and you too can be a standout!!!

(Tue May 26 1998 05:45 - ID#257148)
welcome to the wonderful world of salty

If you give me time enough, I'll make my own beer for our mutual enjoyment ( I'll send you recipes from the Brewer's Bible, as I did for , if you like ) and maybe try shoot the pig for the ham sandwich.

Capt. Cook released pigs when he first arrived in NZ. By that time, the maori had exterminated all ( ? ) of the moa. The largest flightless bird in the history of this sweet gold world.

As for the mustard, why, I'm a bustard, and that's pretty close


(Tue May 26 1998 05:50 - ID#386279)
Having trouble finding things in your millions of bookmarks??
If you use Windows 95, just use your 'bookmarks properties' to rename your favourite bookmarks and then use 'find in bookmarks' or 'control f' to find them.

You can also use 'control f' to launch a search through a days postings to find anything of interest--such as any posts directed to you.

(Tue May 26 1998 05:52 - ID#386279)
Who said YOU could interupt the Nick-hour?? I'm writing a letter to Bart this intant!!

John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 05:53 - ID#24135)
Things look sick ..
to all
jse-gold is off 14. Rangy trading
below a dollar.
If this keeps up, I think the XAU
will crack support at 80.5.

(Tue May 26 1998 05:56 - ID#386279)
I was enjoying myself, mate. Did you have to mention gold??

(Tue May 26 1998 05:58 - ID#257148)
Have lightening and thunder their fury forgotten?
You like your name lit up?
Hey fella, I found myself recounting your tsunami story today. Triggered by Squirrel's speach on Heinlen at K2.And storing Milk powder and condensed milk ( +other stuff ) for any babies. Didja read "Lucifer's Hammer" By Jerry Pournelle & ? about meteorite hitting this sweet gold world? As I recall, though a glass dimly, the hero's strategy for survival, being a diabetic, was to possess volume 2 of "How things Work" and the knowledge of the location of volume 1 together with a hundred other books of PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE. One card he had to play. And he had to ensure that he played the card at the right time, while the rest of the world descended into anarchy. There was a great description of a surfer who caught the tsunami wave near Cairns, and rode it half way across the continent before "meeting his maker." but let's not get into that tonight, yes?


(Tue May 26 1998 06:09 - ID#386279)
June gold 299.10--going the wrong direction again. Stephane's excellent analysis said something to the effect that intraweek we could still have weakness in gold, but by week's end we had better have some strength.

Auratsunami--enough waves for one day, mate.

(Tue May 26 1998 06:19 - ID#248180)




( We can not provide a contact phone number )

The website contains a collection of several medical papers that Di Bella has delivered.


This association was set up by Di Bellas former patients and should be able to provide you with information on his treatments

0011 39 6 7720 1318

CONTACT : PINO MACARONI Speaks a little English.


Oris - Anything is worth a try. Kind regards and best wishes.

(Tue May 26 1998 06:26 - ID#257148)
curiosity made the cat bolder....... where those pigeons?

Never enough waves. Stephan's site is about the waves mate. Hey is this a new ad? for a free $5 liberty?

Ya know in NZ we have the Privacy Act that prevents anyone selling or dealing with private information. I wouldn't want to tread on the toes of the real lawyers hereabouts but there are interesting issues concerning breaches of national and international laws when one gives "private" information to an advertiser. Often stimulated with a lottery/casino inducement ( do some of you guys really think a casino is fun? ) to divulge private information, for what purpose?


Yes, I too know how to mix aqua regia. the components are available locally, I am decently acquainted with chemistry, Wouldn't want to mix it myself. Tho, I suspect that a good assay kit ( ? ) would have v little Aqua regia.. I am curious of the other components. So am hoping that Ch@s continues this thread and i shall be proud possessor of merkan assay kit.

I'll be smokin'

moi? ( mois in memory of TED ) I'd prefer Usque bar to aqua regia.

Where that Haggis gone?

(Tue May 26 1998 06:26 - ID#412286)
Yen Weakness
Is helping the US. Again dollar strength is the ket. BTW compare the bsilver chart to the Yen chart. When this ends its over. This is why Rubin is constantly saying we have a strong dollar policy. He is playing off the Asian crisis to buy time for the US bubble.

(Tue May 26 1998 06:26 - ID#30116)
snowbird -- Sorry but I don't have spot platinum data. :- (

(Tue May 26 1998 06:34 - ID#411331)
@Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug: I know that I was being too kind to Golden Eagle.
Your speculations that G. E. may be another scam to undermine the gold market on the false premis that 157 million more oz of the yellow were about to enter the market had not occurred to me. G. E. is ludicrous.
It has all the ear marks of another Bre X done only half as well. Again we have a "discovery" made in a remote region ( not easy to inspect is it? ) with a huge reserve ( over twice the gold reserve of Bre X ) but this time made on the basis of superficial surface test pits. I do not know the backgrounds of the principals involved, and such details are often difficult to obtain, until after the scam hits the fan. BEWARE!

You may be right about this obvious farce being an attempt to undermine the credibility of the mining industry. After all, what did it cost, just a few hours on a keyboard and a false statement issued to the wire services. The subliminal message of oversupply of gold and scam, scam, scam, gold, gold, gold, is once again brushed across the awareness of the public unconscious. IMHO

(Tue May 26 1998 06:42 - ID#257148)
golden eagle, the sequel ---- son of Bre-x? You be the judge..
I was fortunate enough to be on the WWW@sagesdotkitco early last year.
I must say that the many contributors of kitco were ahead of the market knowledge with Bre-X. We heard the rumor ( I heard the rumour ) there was discussion about helicopters. Oliver and others, who were helicopter pilots talked about the ease of falling out of the model that Grusman feel from; all this was days and weeks before the news hit the pop presses.

If this Gold Beagle site is responsible for wroughting the shares of golden eagle, why! You'll hear about it first here, if you haven't already heard the incoming wave.

thank y'all for being here/there/everywhere


(Tue May 26 1998 06:52 - ID#39857)
ah Brex
Aurator I remember well. I liked the rumour about the suicide
note, a summary of which seemed to manifest here at Kitco.
Something about Mike having hepatitis and not being able to
cope with the pain. Sure did turn up in the press a day later
but still havnt been able to read it for myself.

(Tue May 26 1998 07:03 - ID#238422)
I really appreciate your help. Thank you, friend.

(Tue May 26 1998 07:04 - ID#341189)
Nice summary of Asian crisis on currencies and markets - scroll down

(Tue May 26 1998 07:04 - ID#286199)
Inflationary trends favor POG increase
May 26, 1998 The Wall Street Journal

Work Week

THINK THE LABOR market is tight now? Wait until next quarter. Nearly a third of U.S. businesses intend to increase staffing in the third quarter, according to Manpower Inc.'s latest employment-outlook survey. The poll of 15,600 employers, to be released Tuesday, says 32% of employers plan to hire more people in the next three months, up from 30% a year ago. "There has never been a job market even close to this," says
Mitchell S. Fromstein, Manpower's chairman. Manpower says the results are the strongest hiring intentions for any third quarter since 1978. The
staffing giant adds that service industries are posting the largest hiring gains, as employees in hotels and restaurants hop to better-paying jobs, leaving those employers with positions to fill. "Workers are leaving huge gaps at the entry level," says Mr. Fromstein, who has supervised the survey since 1976. Employers in Midwestern states face the tightest labor markets, but those in Western states are hiring at the fastest rate.

(Tue May 26 1998 07:09 - ID#286199)
Confirmation of Japanese money moving out of country
May 26, 1998

Japanese Investors Move Household Assets Overseas


TOKYO -- Japanese investors are flocking to mutual funds offered by U.S. and other foreign asset managers, and April set a record: For the first time, stock funds managed by foreign firms incorporated in Japan took in more assets than did domestic Japanese firms. The main reasons: a sluggish local stock market, bond yields setting new lows daily and bank accounts whose interest payouts are paper thin. "No one wants 0.3% interest from bank accounts and investors have now found out the Japanese equity market is dubious," said Hiroshi Nakagawa, Japan managing director for InterSec Research Corp., an asset-management-industry consultant. "People are starting to invest their money abroad," he said.

Easing of Restrictions

The trend, which is expected to continue with the government's recent loosening of foreign-exchange restrictions, has been a boon to U.S. asset managers trying to make inroads into Japan's 44-trillion-yen ( $326.04 billion ) mutual-fund industry. Goldman, Sachs & Co.'s mutual-fund operation in Japan, for example, has become the country's ninth-largest mutual-fund company in the span of just three years, offering a range of popular foreign bond and diversified global-equity funds. The company had 808 billion yen in funds under management at the end of April, up from 709 billion yen at the beginning of the year, according to the investment Trust Association of Japan.

Morgan Stanley Asset & Trust Management Co. has seen assets under management grow to 192 billion at the end of April from 126 billion yen at the beginning of the year. Fidelity Investments, a division of FMR
Corp., has watched assets under management in its mutual funds grow by almost half so far this year to 92 billion yen. Assets at Merrill Lynch & Co.'s Mercury Asset Management grew 25% to 169 billion yen. Foreign firms are benefiting from Japanese investors' desire to improve returns by moving more of their 1,200 trillion yen in household assets overseas. That became easier at the beginning of April, when the Japanese government removed some reporting requirements on cross-border capital flows and allowed individual Japanese to hold foreign-currency accounts of any size.

Stagnant Stock Market

Moreover, the Japanese stock market has stagnated for four years now, with the Nikkei Stock Average down half from where it stood in 1989. Long-term government bond yields set a new low Monday of 1.210%. And most Japanese bank accounts pay less than 0.3% interest.

In contrast, Fidelity's Europe Open equity fund topped the performance of all funds sold in Japan by returning 41% in the year ended in April.
Foreign-bond funds have proved especially popular. Fidelity's U.S. junk-bond fund, for example, grew to 47 billion yen in assets in just a year. Goldman Sachs has also seen strong sales of its foreign-bond funds,
as well as several diversified equity and bond funds. Even Japanese brokers -- which sell 98% of all mutual funds in Japan -- are capitalizing on the trend, despite a noticeable preference by investors to look outside the traditional expertise of local firms. Nomura Securities Co., for example, recently agreed to sell funds by Morgan Stanley as well as the Fidelity funds it has sold for several years. Kokusai Securities Co. recently posted the Japanese brokerage industry's
best results, largely on the strength of foreign mutual-fund sales.

Despite the recent decline in overall assets held in mutual funds in Japan, the financial industry here sees them as a major growth market. Regulatory changes will allow banks to sell mutual funds beginning in November, setting off a scramble by banks to find foreign partners. Fuji Bank Ltd., for example, recently signed an agreement with Goldman Sachs to develop and market mutual funds.

(Tue May 26 1998 07:09 - ID#289357)
All @ Golden Eagle

Just a word to join the others about this stock: BEWARE

It was promoted greatly a few months ago on the forums at, and promotion was so blatant the stockscape administrator removed the postings, and left this notice:

Date: March 22, 1998 07:10 PM
Author: Trevor Newton ( )

Dear Stockscape Members, I have had to remove the postings of a certain individual ( who mainly was promoting Golden Eagle ) because his/her postings were simply way too promotional. I apologize for having to do this. So far we have been able to keep Stockscape's Message Boards relatively free of sleazy promoters.

(Tue May 26 1998 07:15 - ID#289357)
Speed @ Japanese Money Flows
Out of the frying pan, into the fire, eh?

(Tue May 26 1998 07:30 - ID#286199)
Yeah, maybe. It does support assertions by APH and others here that the S&P will go up for a while longer and that gold will languish as the dollar gets stronger. The labor market and trade deficit and failure of nerve by the fed all point toward significant U.S. inflation showing up as early as next fall. I'm only longer term bullish on the mining stocks. Since the Euro dudes failed to announce the composition of their reserves, we must wait for any help from them ( if any, if ever ) . Looks like another weak summer for commodities. Sorry to be negative, but that's the way it looks to this right-wing gun nut. : )

(Tue May 26 1998 07:30 - ID#284255)
Interesting site:
Great reading here.
Choose a volume to see the listing of comments
Comments on GPS's, Galaxy4, Y2k, US Navy plus much more.

Massive tsunami incoming.
But will it be the rise before the fall?
Or just the fall?

OZ all ords just finished a double right shoulder of a clasic head and shoulder's pattern.
Many European indices forming similiar patterns.
This site well worth a look at Global and US indices to see where they are all poised.

(Tue May 26 1998 07:39 - ID#39857)
Swiss try to ease tension with US over "dead gold"

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 26 1998 07:51 - ID#384350)
@Geoffs, Hi-Tech Bust
The whole Hi-tech mania took off with Windows 95, with others piggy-backing off the massive promotion by Microsoft. We are seeing the end of that cycle, a Boom to Bust.

MSFT's trouble with the Justice Dept, possibly delaying Windows 98 could be very detrimental to the marktet.

IMO, Windows 98 isn't going to be big like Windows 95 was anyway.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 26 1998 07:51 - ID#384350)
5liter, 10 for 11
The point of the car example by robnoel and myself was to show the hypocrisy of some people who denounce guns in the US ( or elsewhere ) all the while ignoring the fact that so many people die in car accidents every year.

As the Usurer has a big interest in the world's car manufacturing this danger is played down, whereas if people can't defend themselves with guns, they become servants to The System, so The System encourages a defenseless populace.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 26 1998 07:52 - ID#384350)
Guns or lack thereof
I thought back to the people from my High School who killed or were killed. None of the incidents were gun-related.

One guy killed 3 people with a hammer.
One guy drowned.
One girl fell out a window.
One kid crashed his car into a tree.
One kid took his own life with a knife.

And this one is debatable. I had a friend who went to college in the Rockies. His curriculum consisted of skiing and partaking in various drugs. This young man was well-liked, bright, witty, and had good looks.

When he came home for Christmas, he was completely changed. He was docile, he stared into the nothingness, hardly speaking a word. You'd be lucky to get more than 3 words out of him. It was like he had undergone a lobotomy.

Then about 8 yrs thereafter, having put on considerable weight and being on various medication, he died of a heart-attack. His brother said, "As far as I'm concerned, he died 8 years ago."

Now, relating to mozel's Y2K FEMA takeover scenario, I ask was my friend subject to govt experimentation. Was something slipped into whatever he was taking?

It is common knowledge that the USG has a history of subjecting its foot soldiers to various drugs and chemical experiments. Could this type of experimentation have been switched to the hippie low-life drug-taking population.

And if so, are any of us safe from the masters who in the face of revolt, might tamper with the water supply etc and incapacitate entire regions or peoples?

(Tue May 26 1998 07:53 - ID#289357)

I agree with APH and others that the U.S. markets SPX, OEX, INDU do appear to be forming an Elliott Wave 4 pattern ( which points up from here ) , but am perplexed by the various inputs I get from timing services about major deterioration of the fundamentals of all these markets - this must be a speculative blowoff if it happens.

I thought for a time that this could be a diagonal triangle pattern, which would be a ( terminal ) Wave 5 indication. A breakout to the upside from here, and a failure of a new wave 5 would be very bearish for the U.S markets. Foreigners are always the last to buy, and the markets always do their best to punish the late-comers.

Go Gold!! ( I'm counting on ya! )

(Tue May 26 1998 08:00 - ID#255151)

Here's a good read on the history of Gold-->
( apologies for not capitalizing Gold, but
that's the way the URL is written ) Part of an
interesting website with lots of off-beat

(Tue May 26 1998 08:01 - ID#289357)
COMEX gold envelope chart

Looks like a fall to the bottom of the envelope ( around $295/oz ) is becoming less likely - the short-term gold cycle is bottoming and beginning to turn up.

(Tue May 26 1998 08:04 - ID#255151)
Try again> for Gold article, and for the rest of the site

(Tue May 26 1998 08:05 - ID#284255)
UK MoD and Y2K: 100 million pounds to reboot missiles
The article refers to "Thousands of miniaturised computers inside missiles
and other modern weapon systems" that will need be replaced or reprogrammed.

Will the force be there in 2000

(Tue May 26 1998 08:06 - ID#289357)
INPATHIQUE - latest update

For those of you who follow this interesting approach to forcasting the mining stock market ( Toronto Precious Metals Index ) , here's their latest update of current pricing ( in blue ) vs. forecast trend.

Short-term ( closeup = cl ) forecast

Long-term forecast

(Tue May 26 1998 08:08 - ID#255151)
Last time

(Tue May 26 1998 08:12 - ID#342315)
Guns- one comment
The shooter has no compassion. It can acquire lethal weapons as part of a premeditated plan. They don't even have the consideration of an OK Corral situation- you draw first. No guns laws don't apply to the shooter. Putting your hands over your head is no protection. Make your choice

(Tue May 26 1998 08:13 - ID#412286)
The answer to gun violence is to ban guns completely. The penalties for breaking this law should apply to parents who allow kids possession.The penalties should be onerous and allow for property confiscation and imprisonment with felony level status. It works in some European countries. Further, rewards for reporting violators should be posted and encouraged. To hunt you rent a gun at a govt facility where there is a hunting area and you return the gun when finished. Kinda like renting skies at a ski lodge.

(Tue May 26 1998 08:19 - ID#26793)
Morning gold comment from London

(Tue May 26 1998 08:23 - ID#26793)
Much more detail from Swiss-Nazi gold investigation and report.

(Tue May 26 1998 08:24 - ID#186147)
level playing field?
ROR: I'm sure you would require OJ to rent his knife. Wouldnt you? And you'd require the Bros on MLK,Jr. Blvd to rent their Louisville Sluggers and bicycle chains, too. Of course you would.: ) Gone from here til wkend. Good luck all.

(Tue May 26 1998 08:25 - ID#289357)
This is not the most appropriate place for discussion of guns, political science, theology, etc. For those of you who spent endless time on these subjects over the last weekend, I thank you for the weekend off ..


Thank you.

Go Gold!


(Tue May 26 1998 08:26 - ID#248180)
ORIS - Comments re Russia Govt.
Russia is still in the grips of its past. In 1993 I read an interesting book "Russia 2010 and What it Means for the World" by Daniel Yergin & Thane Gustafson. This book tried in 1993 to assess the ecomomic & political situation of the day and then presented three or four scenarios or possible outcomes by 2010. They said in 1993 that:

"The future president of Russia in the year 2010 for example, is a person probably already over thirty years old, building a political career somewhere in Russia. We just don't happen to know who he is yet,and neither does he, except that, given Russia society and the way women have fallen out of politics in the new Russia, he is likely to be a male. Probably he is a heavy smoker but maybe only a moderate drinker or even a teatotaller. And unlike the Russian leaders of a generation ago, who were almost always engineers by education and rose through the ranks of the professional party apparatus, the future Russian president of 2010 could be a private businessman, or a soldier, or a deputy mayor of some medium-sized city, or the leader of some political party that does not even exist yet."

In 1993 the Russian Minister of Econmics said: Russia in these times does not change yearly - it changes monthly.

Our investments in Russia and our gold, platinum, palladium mining projects are on target and continue to prosper. We are confident of the outcome. The change in Russia is irreversable. While raising capital for Russian investment continues to be difficult.

(Tue May 26 1998 08:26 - ID#341189)
I can hardly make head nor tail from the Inpathique charts. Am I right at least in concluding that it is predicting a reversal here to higher levels?

(Tue May 26 1998 08:26 - ID#39857)
Have overlayed xgo with xao to see what you get. Convergence
till that memorable 4/7/97 and then in your words, marching in
lockstep, to our three budha top on the xao. Quite funny
how we have noone to blame but the government. Only if we
had that gold.

"Gold no longer plays a significant role in the international
financial system"

Treasurer of Australia. Peter Costello. 3/7/97

(Tue May 26 1998 08:27 - ID#26793)
Japanese postal savings system expects to post losses for next two years.

(Tue May 26 1998 08:28 - ID#254269)
There will be NO guns at the Kitco re-union; water pistols only, please !.
@ sharefin; in your 7.30, you say "the All-ords and several European markets have just finished a double right shoulder of a classic head and shoulders pattern". For a non-techie, what does this mean ? Thanks.

(Tue May 26 1998 08:33 - ID#26793)
Head of Japanese corruption probe transferred to rural job, staff halved.

(Tue May 26 1998 08:33 - ID#45173)
Nope, did not dream of guns and wake up a conservative this a.m.
I did notice that the S. Korean stock market dropped 6% overnight. Now that investors have stopped fretting about an interest rate increase for another couple of months, they may notice that S. Korean is in deep doodoo for the long haul and they may connect the dots to Japan and the US. We'll see later this a.m.

Greenspan has a clever scheme using interest rate increase fears as a red herring. If the Fed is so worried about inflation, why are they pumping out so much money? I think they're worried about deflation and that an interest rate decrease is more likely than an increase in the next six months. But the Fed is worried that such a move might fuel even greater irrational exuberance in the stock market. This is not unlike the rock and a hard place Fed found themselves between back in 1929.


(Tue May 26 1998 08:40 - ID#354133)
I can empathize with your experience. Send me an e-mail ( ) ...

(Tue May 26 1998 08:40 - ID#254269)
Wall Street Journal articles;
1. Japan's Banks are awash in red ink. Page A14.
2.Falling Oil prices pinch Alaska's finances. Page A2.
3.Off-balance sheet items threaten to balloon massive liabilities of
Indonesian Companies. Page A12.

(Tue May 26 1998 08:50 - ID#254269)
"Bank of Japan talks a lot but does little ", is an srticle on page B7B of todays

(Tue May 26 1998 08:51 - ID#344236)
Please advise your e-mail address. Thanks

(Tue May 26 1998 09:04 - ID#215208)
Silver drifting down
July silver just broke 5.20 to a low of 5.185

(Tue May 26 1998 09:05 - ID#342315)
Silverbaron re Impath
It appears this has good potential on progging the direction. However I can't get enough perspective on it. Could you get the chart reduced so it fits the screen? Thanx for bringing this up, Charlie

(Tue May 26 1998 09:07 - ID#340459)
I am sick of another 'Buying' opportunity, What is happening today Folks, Anybody on the inside ?
The Strong Dollar is evil incarnate for overall Global economy. The Japanese are becoming tail wagging serfs to Wall Street, I Believe they are selling Gold Big time..

The US Dollar will become a noose around the neck of Far East economies, it is just paper dammit, buy some tangibles, wise up..

(Tue May 26 1998 09:09 - ID#284255)
It is a major topping formation.

Here's an intra day chart of the All Ords future - SPI
Showing a classic head and shoulders pattern with two shoulders to each side.
The head tops out at 2925 with the neckline around 2750.
The target of the future bottom ( if this happens )
Would be the difference between the head and the neckline taken from the neckline.
2925 - 2750 = 175
2750 - 175 = 2575 target.
Of course the chart can go in any direction within the current mania.

Its all in the charts.
Like Howard's popularity.
A telling story of gold stocks activity when the indices tumble.

(Tue May 26 1998 09:19 - ID#372400)
Bear Book
To All:

I found the new book by John Rothchild "The BEAR Book" of much interest.
Many topics and views relate to many discussions here.
By the way, Rothschild himself is pretty BEARISH on the Dow.

(Tue May 26 1998 09:23 - ID#284255)
Black outs in July99?
Utilities' systems aren't likely to be fixed by 2000

In fact, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission ( NRC ) will have to shut down more than 10% of the nation's nuclear plants after July 1999 because their systems won't be ready to handle the date rollover to 2000

By July 1999, all nuclear plants must be ready or they may be shut down for safety reasons, Thompson said. He also assured the committee that if a plant fails to operate because of a year 2000 glitch, it will shut itself down safely.

(Tue May 26 1998 09:24 - ID#354133)
Back to work...
After recreating in one of Ponce de Leon's fountains of youth, I see I missed some of Kitco's great holiday posting. Would loved to have participated in some of the "g-word" discussions. Believe it or not, most of the issues discussed are all related to the price of PMs. Some folks just can't make the connection.

Did you know that when the suicidal pilot who tried to take out part of the Whitehouse a few years ago, Mr. Klintoris actually demanded even more major restrictions on private pilots, and slapping even more restrictve measures on ALL "private" airplanes, flights? Could you imagine a five-day wait on filing a flight plan? Or security background checks for ALL private/recreational pilots? Rumor from DC was that one of his friends ( who was a private pilot ) convinced him it was not wise. You should read about the history of the US Govt.'s war on marijuana! Amazing country we live in...

Speaking of pilots:

Two hunters got a pilot to fly them into the far north for elk
hunting. They were quite successful in their venture, and
bagged six big bucks.

The pilot came back as arranged to pick them up. They
started loading their gear into the plane, including the six
elk. But the pilot objected; said he, "The plane can take out
only four of your elk; you will have to leave two behind."

They argued with him; the year before the had shot six and
the pilot had allowed them to put all aboard, and the plane
was just the same model and capacity as this. Reluctantly
the pilot finally permitted them to put all six aboard.

But when they attempted to take off and leave the valley
where they were, the little plane could not make it, and
they crashed in the wilderness. Climbing out of the
wreckage, one hunter said to the other, "Do you know
where we are?"

"I think so," replied the other hunter. "I think this is about
the same place where the plane crashed last year."

O.K., Back to work...

(Tue May 26 1998 09:33 - ID#342315)
Does anybody know the book "TAX AMNESTY"?? The author was on Maury, but Maury runs his damn mouth so much I missed his name. He has been fighting and winning vs IRS for about 10 years. He has recently caught them in a scam and documented it. This should be obligated reading. Thanx, Charlie

(Tue May 26 1998 09:37 - ID#284255)
Boom, Boom, Out Go the Lights
The good news: Computers in securities firms and brokerages will survive the perilous transition to 1-1-00. The bad news? There may be no electricity to power them. At a breakfast briefing today, an industry representative assured about 80 congressional aides that securities companies were in excellent health. "There will be a successful conversion to Year 2000 in the United States in the securities industry," predicted Arthur Thomas, chair of the Securities Industry Association's Y2K committee. An industry-wide test is scheduled for March 1999, with a trial run this summer.

As for the rest of the world, well, "when you get into emerging markets, there could be turmoil.

Speaking last was David Hall, an embedded-systems consultant at Cara Corporation, who warned of power outages. "Every test I have seen done on an electrical power plant has caused it to shut down. Period. I know of no plant or facility investigated to this date that has passed without Y2K problems," he said.

Added Hall: "Things like this come out and the mass media gets ahold of it -- you're going to have shortages because of panic. How to communicate this to the public needs to be addressed." It's a little late now

(Tue May 26 1998 09:39 - ID#284255)
Consider your supply chain

Could this effect your mining company?

(Tue May 26 1998 09:41 - ID#373284)
And young Americans bleed on the will see this...

(Tue May 26 1998 09:41 - ID#266105)

GE ( MINE ) up 50% or so at 1mil vol.

(Tue May 26 1998 09:46 - ID#39857)
This is all I got.
Israeli radio reports that China has pledged not
to transfer nuclear and ballistic missile technology to Iran.

Mike Stewart
(Tue May 26 1998 09:47 - ID#270253)
Technical Update
I have no good news this week.

The Toronto Mining Issue new lows have expanded well past the benchmark 5 issues per day. They have increased to the 9 - 14 range. This is now negative.

The Toronto Mining Issues McClellan Summation Index continues to decline steadily. There is no capitulation here just decline. This is also negative.

The weekly trendline on The Toronto Gold Index, that was rising at 2% weekly from the last lows, was broken last week. Not good either.

In summary, there is nothing positive here from a technical perspective. These indicators will have to turn around before I can feel very confident about the next rise in gold issues. My own stocks have held up very well lately, and I am going to hold them until they hit my stop loss points on an individual basis.

(Tue May 26 1998 09:52 - ID#373284)
The TRUTH is stranger than fiction

(Tue May 26 1998 09:55 - ID#411149)

Date: Tue May 26 1998 08:25
Silverbaron ( THIS IS A GOLD FORUM ) ID#289357:
This is not the most appropriate place for discussion of guns, political
science, theology, etc. For those of you who spent endless time on these
subjects over the last weekend, I thank you for the weekend off ..


Thank you.

Go Gold!


Tally Ho

(Tue May 26 1998 09:56 - ID#254269)
sharefin; Thanks for the
explanation. Makes sense to me now.

(Tue May 26 1998 09:57 - ID#316193)
Hope Everybody is a Spectator, Not a Speculator Today~~

(Tue May 26 1998 10:02 - ID#284255)
National Mutual to shed jobs to save costs - another Asian Victim
S.Korea braces for general strike as market sinks
FOCUS-S.Korea stocks plunge to another 11-yr low
HSBC says no need for full write off on Indonesia
German shares vault 5,600 points,eye further highs
FTSE 100 hurdles 6,000, plays catch-up with Europe
Japan's Keidanren sees no recovery without reform
Japan big banks hit as securities holdings fall
New investors often hold only one stock:
The upsurge in direct share ownership in the past three years has produced a new breed of high-risk share investor and almost 9 per cent of them have some level of borrowing for their portfolio.

The research showed that more than 30 per cent of investors had only one stock in their portfolio and that nearly half of them had been in the market for less that three years.

(Tue May 26 1998 10:02 - ID#266105)

Harmony bid under 5. Rangy 1. Drooy 3.

GE backing off, up 45% from 50%.

(Tue May 26 1998 10:06 - ID#284255)
Stability essential, say IMF, Rubin
The US Treasury and the International Monetary Fund said yesterday that political stability in Indonesia was essential and political reform was required before IMF funding resumed.

At the end of the meeting of APEC finance ministers in Kananaskis Village, Canada, the US Treasury Secretary, Robert Rubin, said: "The US stands absolutely ready to help Indonesia."

"A practical matter . . . is what kind of conditions have to exist in Indonesia  economic, political and social  so that an economic program can be effective."

This echoed the message taken by the IMF chief, Michel Camdessus, to the finance ministers and Mr Rubin's consistent comments since he arrived in Canada last weekend.

Urgings by member countries such as Malaysia and Japan that IMF funding for Indonesia be resumed promptly were ignored.

However, there was some concession to concerns about the fallout from the Indonesian economic crisis, with a strong emphasis in the ministers' final statement on the need to cushion the social impact of reforms.

The ministers were careful to support the IMF, saying they were encouraged by the flexibility shown by the body, but there was a strong push for World Bank packages to be seen as equal participants in rescues along with the IMF.

Canada's Minister for Finance, Mr Paul Martin, said all ministers supported the concept that "the role of the World Bank had to be enhanced, it had to be much more prominent in the whole package".

Eisuke Sakakibara, Japan's Vice-Finance Minister for International Affairs, made it clear that he saw difficult times ahead for the region. Asked if the financial crisis was over, his answer was, "No".
Downer rules out further aid
The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Alexander Downer, yesterday ruled out further immediate financial aid to Indonesia as a leading business lobby, Australian Business, warned that the Indonesian economy could shrink by 20 per cent this year.

(Tue May 26 1998 10:15 - ID#284255)
Banking and the Year 2000 Computer Problem =truth?
And authorize Federal banking agencies to waive any civil monetary penalties and work towards reducing any damages that otherwise might be imposed by a federal court for inadvertent technical violations of law directly caused by failure to correct a Year 2000 problem. Despite reasonable efforts by institutions to corrects all Year 2000 issues it seems inevitable that some unforeseen problems will arise, and if institutions correct them on a timely and forthright basis upon discovery it does not seem reasonable that they be held liable. This provision is intended only as a statutory clarification to ensure that such technical errors would be treated, for example, as bona fide errors for the purposes of
Section 130 ( c ) of the ***Truth in Lending Act*** or
Section 271 ( c ) of the ***Truth in Savings Act*** and in no way should be construed as an effort to indemnify any institution against negligence.

(Tue May 26 1998 10:16 - ID#342315)
tolerant1 re VISION
I have heard about it since about 1934. Never such detail. This ought to be framed and hung prominently. Thanx a million, Charlie

(Tue May 26 1998 10:21 - ID#177145)
@John Disney
Thanks for the info. I think I feel better about my investments down there.

(Tue May 26 1998 10:30 - ID#284255)
Dow sell off?
Dow down 70pts from its futures induced rally.
Tick falling real fast. -715

I thought all the dippies would be jumping in after three days of thinking how cheap stocks really are?

(Tue May 26 1998 10:33 - ID#373229)
Oil for Gold
Indonesia needs hard assets to support its' currency and it's a big exporter of oil. How long before they start to demand gold for oil in order to support their currency and get back at the U.S. for the dammage we have done to their economy.

John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 10:33 - ID#24135)
to all rangy fans or ex fans..
Spoke to company secretary today. Major shareholders
in Rangold resources are rangold 57%, CAM through a
Subsidiary 6%, IFC ( a branch of the World bank ) 5%,
and North Ltd ( an Aussie Fund or something like that )
2 %. The rest is funds, institutions, ets. The price
history is first provate placement at $10, then listed
at $16.5, now $6.
The Marsfontein thing is confusing .. but the thing
involving the "heirs" only pertains to a small piece
of the farm. Rangold has clear title to the rest of the

(Tue May 26 1998 10:37 - ID#342315)
Some perspective re MINE
This is an attempt to put MINE into perspective. I have worked on several thousand acres for the last 4 years. It's a gold prospect. This is not a promo because I'm not done. I did about 1000 assays and got independent correlation by XRAL. So far my lowest estimate is 2 grams/ton. I settled on 4000 acres which from available geophysics is at least a 2000' deep plate. One acre , 2000' deep is 88 mill tons using 11cubic'/ton. 4000 of these will give you 32 billion tons. 2 grams/ton= 2+ biiliom oz. I need about 1000= more assays and , not to mention drilling, I may be able to show a pattern that is "healthy" or disrupted from expectations. The ore is in a block that is 3 dimensional, so a 2 dimensional and partial analysis is suspect. Leaving out the missing work and hyping the indication shows a big bunch, but would you buy some of this deal based on the above?

(Tue May 26 1998 10:38 - ID#373284)
chas - And at any time....
arrive on the Island that is Long...ask for the man with the clown nose and I shall run to where you are and we will drink tequila and many beers...

(Tue May 26 1998 10:38 - ID#284255)
European indices giving up their gains
Most of the European indices were well up earlier.
Now many are slipping into the red.

With the recent new highs in many European indices and the non-confirmation of new highs by the US stocks,
Perhaps the European Indices will lead the way in the coming correction?

(Tue May 26 1998 10:46 - ID#266105)

Apparently SouthernEra who did the legwork feels the
Marsfontein property is rich. $21m is alot to pay for
diamond rights for a small Canadian exploration outfit.

(Tue May 26 1998 10:47 - ID#341312)
Gianni, Ray, all
Gianni-Now I get your point. Mistook you for a car-grabber for a bit there. Not anymore! ;- )
Ray-will try to stick much closer to PM's and markets in the future. It's just sometimes Kitco takes on a life of it's own, especially when gold's not moving much.
All-Is it just me or does the world financial and y2k news seem especially bleak this a.m.?

(Tue May 26 1998 10:52 - ID#342315)
Thanx for the invite. I hope it can be soon, but hard to break away here. I'll do my best. Are you any kin to Durante!!? Much obliged, Charlie

(Tue May 26 1998 10:52 - ID#66136)
ALL Homestake has made an offer for the balance of Prime
May be old news but I have seen no Kitco comment. Is HM spending cash that could be better placed in another property?

(Tue May 26 1998 10:54 - ID#348286)
The Buck is on a rampage! All currencies ( and Gold ) getting clobered.
How long before the USA will own all tangible assets around the world?
Globalization is really the takeover of your nations wealth by the USA, it seems. Europe is next on the big map.......

(Tue May 26 1998 10:58 - ID#153102)
Experimentation or diddling with the water is legal. You can read all about it in Title 50 of the United States Code. In an official emergency, pretty much anything goes.
And, yes, the Usurer always does an overall cost/benefit analysis on the effect of something on the collateral before underwriting the propaganda campaign.

We are supposed to focus on Gold, but for forty years because of politics, you could not even legally own gold in America. Go figure.

(Tue May 26 1998 11:00 - ID#373284)
chas - related to Jimmy in HEART AND SOUL...

(Tue May 26 1998 11:06 - ID#429395)
Chas/Silverbaron re INPATHIQUE Precious Metals Index
Caution: I personally use INPATHIQUE for all my investment decisions. It has made me a lot of money on gold via ABX. However, what you are looking at is an index. Although it has worked well there so far, indexes are not what INPATHIQUE should be used on. It depends upon knowing precisely what the highest and lowest price paid for a stock was each day. There is no such thing as a precise value on an index. It depends totally upon the measuring period. i.e., 10 minutes or 60 minutes gives two different values for the index.

I did however go long on ABX first thing Friday morning when it hit $29.90 cdn although my target buy was $30.00 I am frequently out two trading days on these things though.

The charts on their examples page is for demonstration purposes only and not intended to be used for investment decisions ( although they work pretty darn good! )

(Tue May 26 1998 11:12 - ID#317193)
Spot Gold at $295.20....hmmmmmm
I think I get to find out what gold does at $295, spot. We will see if it bounces up or continues down.

FND on June gold is Friday, May 29. Gee, can't imagine what's going on here. Right!


(Tue May 26 1998 11:22 - ID#22956)
the pen is mightier than the sword.....(or the gun)...
"On average, 100 people choke to death on ballpoint pens every year".


Can't confirm this one but I thought it was pertinent to this here weekend discussion thing........uh huh.

talk about bein' in the red......this page looks ugly......ouch ( ! )


I'll bet you didn't know dept:

It takes 3000 cows to supply the NFL with enough leather for

a year's supply of footballs.


I've always wondered about this one.......:

The cigarette lighter was invented before the match.


and you thought it was only white men who couldn't:

Elephants can't jump. Every other mammal can.


oh hell.....I guess I'll go to work......ho hum. be back later.....ohmy.


go gold ( . )

(Tue May 26 1998 11:30 - ID#373284)
What is work?

(Tue May 26 1998 11:30 - ID#14431)
"Y2K Problems Could Drive Insurers Out of Business"

Click here and scroll down to this May 15th article, derived from a panel discussion of insurance experts. It is easy to read, and scary. Example: "Year 2000 losses will be catastrophic. Where is the money going to come from to pay for $1 trillion in losses?"

For those who hope technology will come to the rescue: "As someone from a technology company, I can tell you that's probably not going to happen."--William C. Hartnett, worldwide insurance manager for Microsoft.

(Tue May 26 1998 11:32 - ID#342315)
Greg re Impath
Thanx a lot. I have a better idea, but will have to digest the details. If I get morassed, I'll get back to you, Charlie

(Tue May 26 1998 11:35 - ID#340302)
Technicians Declaring "Game Over" for Gold Today....
The technicians are hysterical again today. Gold has broken below all variety of trend lines and wave cycles and the gold witch doctors are at it again, declaring the resumption of a full blown gold BEAR. Gold to plummet to 200 immediately.


It never ceases to amuse me just how enslaved gold investors are to such techno-jargon.

Again, I can only say those favorite words of mine that inspire so much hatred on this esteemed forum:


The real stuff, mind you...not paper.



(Tue May 26 1998 11:36 - ID#22956)
work sux.....on Tuesdays after a holiday......uh huh. get knee-deep in it


(Tue May 26 1998 11:37 - ID#233199)

Thanks, I needed that. I actually had my finger on the sell trigger!!

(Tue May 26 1998 11:41 - ID#36156)
MINE - Thanks Vronsky, Chas, et al...
I bought at .25 last week, sold half this morning at .52 to recover my original investment ... left the other half in play. I did this based on all of your collective comments over the weekend. One should be careful.
Someone here gave some good advice last week when he/she said to set a sell target but be prepared to exit sooner. I followed that advice and I'm happy with the results ... thank you, whoever you are.

Now, what to do with the other half of my MINE? Hmmmm...

HenryD ( Go GOLD - You sick puppy, you! )

(Tue May 26 1998 11:45 - ID#290118)
No more weekends like this last one please {I'm guilty too}
for newsgroups on:


For Kitcoites maybe try alt.politics.economics
I particularly like the alt.politics.libertarian
Give 'em a while to load all the headers the first time.

Maybe post a quickie here as to where what is being thrashed over.

(Tue May 26 1998 11:51 - ID#57232)
Equity Markets, gold
sharefin: Noticed your comments on the markets, and the earlier post about the Japanese puling out of their markets, and moving to the US equities. I don't know what is in store for us in the US in the near future, but with the weak computer industry earnings, and the 'flight to safety' from Japan and who know where else, my intuitive guess is that the Oldman is right -- bullish for the spoos, and bearish for gold. I am going to hang on to my long gold position a bit longer, on the assumption that we are bottoming. If silver rallies strongly in the next week or so, I may be ok.

SEASia worries me, given the fact that Japanese bank investigation looks like a thing of the past, and that the SKorean Chaebols have 5x debt to equity ratio ( the latter according to Bill Buckler ) . By the way, I have some puts on the Mexican index -- looking weaker and weaker. The ElNino related forest fires in mexico and South America are so bad that there is haze in Texas and North Carolina ( pretty sure ) . If mexico implodes, this will pull the US markets down for a time, and then 'flight to safety' will take over again.

My intuitive guess is that we are in the last legs of repeating the 1929 scenario, where the US markets were the last to go -- could be a year of two after the serial devaluations elsewhere in the world.

I will try to post you a interesting URL about ElNino. Statistically it seems that a big ElNino tends to begin in Indonesia, roll over into Australia after about 6 months, and then worsen in the central US and South America in the second year. This may be our ElNino year in the US.

Take care --

(Tue May 26 1998 11:52 - ID#342315)
HenryD re Mine
You can't go broke taking a profit. This may be the best thing that ever happened. Especially if you can execute in and out quickly. My old saying is- do you know how to kiss a rabbit's ass without getting fuzz in your mouth?- blow hard before you kiss. With this skill , I guess you could have made money on Bre-x. Now you can't loose. Good luck, Charlie

(Tue May 26 1998 11:59 - ID#36156)
Charlie - MINE
Thanks, er... I think?

HenryD ( Go GOLD - On the brink of the event horizon. )

(Tue May 26 1998 12:00 - ID#340302)
Paper Gold versus Real Gold...
Once again, I do submit that when it becomes apparent that the gold market falls on the sole basis of paper manipulations by Wall Street hedge funds...once it becomes apparent that there is but a mere fraction of physical gold available for delivery against paper gold trades...then a "Gold Buy" panic will ensue.

Unfortunately, we are living in the "Decade of Deception." Today, the government announces that existing home sales fell 2.5% ( I imagine they must gather all their statistics from the backwoods of Kentucky ) . Meanwhile, in major metropolitan cities ( from L.A. to New York ) , it is virtually impossible to buy a house at anything less than full price...and decent houses put up for sale are snatched up within a few days from initial listing. Real estate is exhibiting the same hysteria and verticality as the equities markets. The available housing inventory is as low as the global physical gold inventory.

Switzerland admits it accepted Nazi gold from concentration camps. Well, at least, that's a start. Slowly but surely, the Swiss are admitting what astonishing deceitful liars they really are. It took a fair bit of pressure from the World Jewish Congress to get them to this point, mind you. Eventually, the Swiss government will admit as to why they plan to pay Holocaust victims and their relatives in currency rather than real gold...and why Switzerland continually talks down the price of gold...ANSWER: no doubt Switzerland does not have anywhere near the physical gold inventory it claims exists to back the Swiss Franc. I would imagine most of it has disappeared over the years ( converted into currency on behalf of private interests ) just as monies from Jewish banks accounts disappeared magically from Swiss banks over the last four to five decades.

I cannot wait for the glorious day ( it's coming ) when some third party interest group reveals just how much physical gold does NOT exist in Swiss bank vaults.



(Tue May 26 1998 12:11 - ID#342315)
JTF re haze
The haze is off and on here in N.C. The rest of your post is fine. Timing? Charlie

(Tue May 26 1998 12:17 - ID#233199)
Re: Mine

Hey! I made $90 on 1000 shares of MINE - after commisions...

.....that covers a bit of the REALY dumb trade I made at the same time...

oh well.....I got to kiss the rabbitt....

(Tue May 26 1998 12:19 - ID#233199)
...too bad the rabbitt didn't teach me to proof read --realLy..

(Tue May 26 1998 12:20 - ID#373284)
EB - iffin footballs are made of cow,
how come they call them pig-skins?

(Tue May 26 1998 12:24 - ID#36156)
SWP1 - Hmmmm...
This site's getting kinky. First ducks, now rabbits. Can't help it, like 'em both!

HenryD ( Go GOLD - If you can! )

(Tue May 26 1998 12:27 - ID#340344)
Bearish for Gold?
JTF and All...

JTF, thank you for the great post. I'd like to remind all of
us that the events we've been discussing are not "bearish"
for gold, but rather, bearish in terms of the strong US dollar..
Gold is going UP in the weak currencies. As someone posted
here recently, when buying gold with USD, we are being given
the opportunity to buy gold at a substantial *discount*,
and, given my belief that the USD strength won't last, the
opportunity should be acted upon. When the pendulum swings,
and the dollar weakens, in terms of the USD Gold will be
very strong.

(Tue May 26 1998 12:32 - ID#373403)
Buy the gold dips
As much as I want to see my considerable gold investment increase in value, I am grateful for this opportunity to increase my holdings. Economy going strong. Store sales going strong. Extra money going into .999 gold casting grain inventory.

I just wonder how I will view this mound of AU when prices rise to $600/oz. Probably won't want to sell then either given the likely circumstances which would bring about that valuation.

(Tue May 26 1998 12:32 - ID#194311)
Testing, testing....

(Tue May 26 1998 12:35 - ID#317193)
Went gold.....go gold?
Gold went this morning. If you were not on the short side you lost a bit. Now for the long side at $295.

You know, physical gold just sits there and doesn't know what its price it is at any particular time. Seems rather peaceful in this turbulent world.Yes?

Spot at $295.50 right now on Monex site.


(Tue May 26 1998 12:40 - ID#434158)
I keep reading that the dollar will fall. Don't mean to be argumentative, but "fall" against what? Gold is not the first economic refuge being sought overseas; instead they go to the dollar and sell gold to buy life's necessities. If the dollar is to fall, what world-class currency will replace it? The yen? The Swiss Franc? The German Mark? The Euro? Think about it. Which place provides more free market, less government interferance with commerce, a more vital economy? What industrial nation will fare better and recover faster if Y2K is indeed a disaster? Until you find one, the dollar will remain the world's currency of choice. I am long gold and gold stocks. But it is an insurance policy, not my primary investment. Not yet, anyway. Not until I can answer some of these questions. Best wishes.

(Tue May 26 1998 12:46 - ID#36156)
Hey, Guys, we got a new sponsor! Way to go, Bartman!!

(Tue May 26 1998 12:46 - ID#340459)
If the Fed doesnt move it's behind to curtail the bloating dollar, they will regret it when flood
gates of cheap imports completely inundate and damage the already beleagured US Manufacturing sector including high tech, The Trade imbalance will reach record imbalances, Money pouring in now can as easily pour out at the first hint of US economic trouble as it chases higher returns around the globe, I will stay the course with PM's as it too late to bail out now and also because every other sector is heavily vested with bleak market outlook for future Global growth at previous pace. The paper currencies have been made more shaky by speculator's who have orchestrated the rape of many Asian economies, some are beyond repair through IMF Band Aids, atleast in the 1-3 year time frame.

Wall Street/Fed Reserve is salivating in anticipation that all global capital will flow into their coffers unabated, Some countries that are in truly bad shape and have nothing to lose will rethink their economic servitude to USA/IMF/G-7 and start defaulting and many may be termed a credit risk for International Trade financing which may force them to lower ALL imports from outside and increasingly turn inwards towards a path of self sustenance for a time. They will try to export what they can at any cost, unleashing global deflation.

American Economy cannot thrive when all their clients are broke, just doesnt work that way in any business endeavour in the long run. Fed by doing nothing to address the quantum shifts in global economic outlook is going to harm everybody across the globe, which is cause enough to string AG and Rubin, or maybe I am TOO DUMB and they are TOO SMART. Maybe this is all a well laid plan to take us poor slobs to the Cleaners..

Gold is behaving like an aged whore street walking, beckoning, lowering her price constantly and still no customers for her fading charms.

Let me take off some team as I lost a bundle again today and do not care to be politically correct

(Tue May 26 1998 12:50 - ID#410198)
I concur with all the weekend was fun now back to the real world.. ..metals take a little heat all
seem to run for the hills....silly... buy as much as you can,when this thing turns around it will be too late......just like IBM when it traded for $40.00 no one wanted it,as a matter of fact even the CNBC talking heads were saying it could go much lower where did every one get back in,my guess 60+

(Tue May 26 1998 12:51 - ID#373403)
The world is awash in $US. Asia is dishoarding $US just the same as gold and depleting their reserves to defend their currency. Europe is likewise holding excess $US which they no longer need to cunduct business now that they have their own currency. Several smaller governments are announcing that they are replacing $US with $EURO as reserve assets.

A falling dollar is not necessarily a bad thing as a strong dollar chokes off exports and lessens U.S. competitiveness with foreign competition domestically.

The flight to quality eventually becomes the selloff of ALL non-essential assets as recessions reduce economies to rubble. The $US will be the last to be sold but it will go when it is an individual or companies last asset before bankruptcy.

(Tue May 26 1998 12:52 - ID#269409)
Today's Gold report

(Tue May 26 1998 12:53 - ID#432298)
I like your comment on what gold is like "like an aged street walking whore, beckoning......"

I totally agree with you on that one.

(Tue May 26 1998 12:53 - ID#269409)
@ Weekend Discussion
When Gold is outlawed, only outlaws will own Gold....

John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 12:53 - ID#24135)
For Reify ..
Oo Chandit .. means "I screwed up"

Now I know...

(Tue May 26 1998 12:55 - ID#340302)
@lGB....hi ho silver....
How's my favorite silverbug doing?

Same as before.



John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 12:57 - ID#24135)
Break 80.5 was naughty
for Cyclist ..
I mentioned my interest in break of
80.5 on XAU. Due lousy gold action
today I took puts on XAU on the opener.
Covers my @ss nicely for the few
remaining items I am still in . Have
also switched about half rands to $.
Plan to sit this one out. One day Silver
calls will be nice .. wonder when..

(Tue May 26 1998 12:57 - ID#348286)
-4.25 Marketus Horibilus - Could be a $10 down day here.......

(Tue May 26 1998 12:57 - ID#254269)
Dollar; GungaDin, there are others here who could probably answer this better
than me, but let me give it a try. Right now, the US dollar is very high
versus other currencies ( and commodities ) . What this means is that imports into the US are very cheap, but conversely exports out of the US, are very expensive ( on a relative basis ) . The effect is that it adds substantially to the US trade deficit and means that, at some point, US exporters ( read employers ) will have trouble selling their goods outside the US. As they have trouble selling US goods, they will start to lay off workers and the US will go into a recession, at which time the stock market will weaken. So, at some point, the US dollar will have to weaken in order to remain competitive with those cheaper currencies out there. Think of it this way, you are an employer and you have twenty people on you payroll; the hourly wage of nineteen of them is pretty much the same, but one worker ( the US ) , makes a lot more per hour. You, obviously would not raise the hourly rate of the 19, the obvious thing is for the one "hold-out" to reduce his rate.
I may be off on a few details, but that essentially is it.

(Tue May 26 1998 12:57 - ID#432227)
To Farfel
I hope your right with respect to the amount of gold held by the Swiss, it would be a neat swindle. But - where do you think it went? If it was due to gold leasing, how many other banks are in the same boat? And - how would the deception be revealed?

(Tue May 26 1998 12:57 - ID#269409)
@ Reify...
My apologies....I didn't get to my email before leaving on the trip. Would have loved sharing a cold one. Tel Aviv is a great come everyone eats dinner so late?

Never felt safer in any large city...folks strolling about all parts of town well into the wee hours with no fear...must be the legal right to carry firearms that makes it so safe!

(Tue May 26 1998 12:59 - ID#317193)
You may be right. My NAB only has a few weeks before you can say I told you so.

I couldn't be wrong again in my life, could I?: )

Hope silver rebounds. Also, glad you are back safe and sound.


(Tue May 26 1998 13:00 - ID#269409)
@ Farfel
Not too bad though I find it distressing to see my profits on the physical evaporating on a daily basis. Still about 20% on the plus side and VERY tempted to start trying a leverage play..however, since we've broken below the $5.20 level, I may wait for $4.80 ( or at least a flattening.... ) meanwhile, I'm going to try and pick up some SSC at .8

Hey, guess what's skyrocketing though? "St. Gaudens"... the only Gold I'm holding right now!

(Tue May 26 1998 13:01 - ID#269409)
Diety Trinity riddle solved....!!!
USAG/Kosares/Another are ONE.....

(Tue May 26 1998 13:01 - ID#210235)
@Very interesting overview
of global financial crisis

If you're in a rush, here's the punchline:

An editorial in the London-based Financial Times of May 23 warned: "The longer the Asian crisis

goes on, the greater the repercussions for the rest of the world could be. And at the moment, the

end does not seem in sight. Worse, another twist of the vicious circle, with further damaging

currency devaluations and resulting financial problems still cannot be ruled out."

Western countries had yet to receive the full force of the crisis, the editorial stated, and there were

dangers of a second round of currency devaluations. If either, or both, the Japanese yen and the

Chinese renminbi were to plunge, "the effect on the world economy would dwarf the impact of the

Asian crisis so far," sparking a new round of devaluations and undermining Western stock markets.

(Tue May 26 1998 13:01 - ID#43460)
Market news from yahoo: optimism or whistling in the graveyard?
If all the world currencies are falling against the dollar would that imply that they are all INflating against a DEflating dollar? I sold half my remaining income stock portfolio today and put the money in a MMF as my retirement account doesn't have a gold fund. ( FWIW, this is NOT investment advice for anyone else. )

(Tue May 26 1998 13:05 - ID#373284)
READ the FINE print on "YOUR" MMF...protect yourself from frauds...Namaste'

(Tue May 26 1998 13:05 - ID#340302) know it's been years since...
...I visited Tel Aviv. It really is something, isn't it?

I always thought it was a beautiful town. Many times I have fantasized about making a return visit. But I would never let my wife visit the place. I'm just too nervous about random terrorist attacks.

It would be one thing if a bomb blew me apart...but I do not want to risk seeing random violence perpetrated against her.

You know what I mean?



(Tue May 26 1998 13:11 - ID#269409)
Rocket science
Adding a bit o' light to the heat. While I don't defend my companies CEO in the matter of assisting the Chinese with their delivery vehicle capabilities, I do believe we should keep the discussion factual. Loral / Bernie and other US satellite manufactureres have used the Chinese ( and the RussKies ) to launch satellites for YEARS, and were doing so under the Bush administration. In fact Bush allowed far more sensitive technology transfers to China than anything that's happened under Clinton. Global positioning satellite technology for example.

Also, to set the record straight on ignorant posts such as those from "Ron" a couple weeks ago, Loral has certainly NOT transferred "Nuclear technology" to China. We build satellites. We are not in the defense biz. When one of our $200 million satellites fell out of the sky during launch, because our vendor ( China ) , had a launch vehicle failure, we insisted on reviewing thier "Failure Analysis" before any future launches took place. Our "technology transfer" to China consisted solely of our report/review of their "Failure analysis"...which basically concurred with their findings.

All that said, my personal preference would be that we use domestic facilities ONLY for this if only congress would get past their Envormania to ALLOW building new facilities for same, as the persent ones are booked for years......

Sunday May 24, 2:22 pm Eastern Time

Loral CEO says China trade waiver was "routine"

By Joanne Kenen

WASHINGTON, May 24 ( Reuters ) - The head of U.S. aerospace company Loral ( LOR - news ) said on Sunday a government
waiver allowing his company to launch a satellite on a Chinese rocket was routine and owed nothing to his Democratic Party
campaign contributions.

White House National Security Adviser Sandy Berger said the Loral deal had not damaged U.S. security in any way. But House of
Representatives Speaker Newt Gingrich joined a chorus of U.S. lawmakers urging President Bill Clinton to postpone his trip to
China next month.

Bernard Schwartz, CEO of Loral Space and Communications, said allegations that Clinton gave him the go-ahead to launch a
satellite on a Chinese rocket were not affected by his big donations to Clinton and the Democrats.

``That's just untrue. There's no foundation for that at all,'' Schwartz said on ABC's ``This Week.''

He added that Loral had received 16 prior waivers from Republican and Democratic administrations to conduct sensitive business
with China and had not received any sign that this request would be anything other than routine.

``There was no issue here, no controversy here that we were aware of,'' he said. ``If the implication is that I would take a stand
that is harmful to this country, that's absolutely outrageous.''

John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 13:11 - ID#24135)
Oh how I love ...
to watch Harmony fall .. Thinking
one day I will buy it all BACK ..
Must hold bloody D Deeps till the
weekend for conversion of preferreds.
I think what I make on the conversion
I'll lose on the drop. But my puts
cover me .. Oh joy ..

(Tue May 26 1998 13:16 - ID#269409)
@ Farfel...Bombs & such
Yes, I do know what you mean. I don't think I'd take the family either, though as I said, it really "felt" safe there. I had a 20th story ocean view suite at the Hilton...the Mediterannean sunsets from the balcony...this I wish she could have seen! For a country under siege, the Isaraeli's sure know how to have fun! Folk dancing on the esplanade by the beach....bands playing...general party going on practically every night down there on the "strip".

(Tue May 26 1998 13:19 - ID#335379)
Why is gold tanking?

(Tue May 26 1998 13:21 - ID#373284)
The limb on the tree is long enough

(Tue May 26 1998 13:24 - ID#317193)
LGB regarding the ANOTHER person...
I do not think the ANOTHER at USAGold is the same as posted here. No way to know for sure unless he posts here again with his ID#.

Interesting, interesting.

Tom bbml

Crystal Ball
(Tue May 26 1998 13:29 - ID#287367)
What Bart sees !

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 26 1998 13:36 - ID#384350)
CBOE shuts down
Could this be Y2K related to post 2000 options?

Crystal Ball
(Tue May 26 1998 13:36 - ID#287367)
Price of gold is down because there are more sell orders than buy orders. The fundamentals can only be flouted in the short run. There are more dollars around for every ounce of gold than you can shake a stick at. Which reminds me. A very handsome muscular guy in the slammer was taken to the warden ( a woman ) , who told him he would be paroled if he would make love with her. He reluctantly declined, saying he didn't want to end his sentence with a proposition.

(Tue May 26 1998 13:40 - ID#347235)
My wife and I will go to Isreal this winter to get out of Alaska during the worst of it. We are both going, she said just try and go without me! You can't spend you entire life worrying about cowards like Yassir and his bunch. In fact He better hope I don't meet him on the street!

(Tue May 26 1998 13:44 - ID#229277)
Prometheus: thx for the URL
Theirs is a good analysis, as likely to be self-interested as the more optimistic analysis you can gind in Barrons or the WSJ. No doubt the World Socialist Web Site has an axe to grind with the capitalist world financial system, the collapse of which they have been predicting for 50 years. Instead, their own economic system collapsed. I figure they are essentially correct that capitalism goes through cycles, largely driven by the accumulation of debt, and that we are headed for a period of contraction. They might conclude this spells doom for capitalism. This is where they and I disagree. It spells transition and change for capitalism. Does anyone doubt that gold is the best way to hold assets through such a period? I doubt it. So the only question is whether you believe that massive change is in the wind.

Thanks again for the post.

(Tue May 26 1998 13:45 - ID#340302)
@LGB...yeah, I envy you...
...I have no doubt that your trip must have been fantastic! I remember Israel had some of the nicest beaches I've ever visited.

But, today, you really have to have balls of steel to make that trip. The presence of soldiers everywhere makes some people feel safe...but you have to remember why there are so many soldiers wandering around in the first place.

God willing, when Hezbollah and Hamas disappear from the Middle East, then I hope to re-visit Israel with my wife. I rarely travel anywhere without her.



(Tue May 26 1998 13:50 - ID#340302)
@RETIRED SOLDIER...your fierce reputation precedes you...
...I hear Yassar Arafat's made plans to be OUT of Israel when you visit there.



(Tue May 26 1998 13:54 - ID#335190)
FWIW @ Watching Corporate Power, Control a Nation's Wealth/Value. Outstanding Control EH!
May 26, 1998

Toronto stocks turn negative in early 2

TORONTO, May 26 ( Reuters ) - Toronto stocks turned negative on Tuesday after opening on the upside as resource shares moved south en masse.

Levesque Beaubien Geoffrion liability trader David Jarvis said the move into financial and interest-sensitive shares from the natural resource sector is likely to continue.

......................"I love the financials," Jarvis said.

(Tue May 26 1998 13:55 - ID#434158)
Avalon @ the Dollar
Thanks for the explaination. But I'm not sure how much of the world is really divesting itself of dollars. Dollar vs yen is up: earlier posts today indicate asian investors, especially Japanese, are pouring money into dollar-denominated funds: dollar price of oil is down: Hell, even John Disney is buying dollars! ( see his 12:57 ) That's GOTTA mean SOMETHING! ( G ) Agreed, this hurts US exports: thus eventual recession: nevertheless, if, as themissinglink said earlier, the dollar is the last to fall, maybe that's still the place to be in the meantime. Competition from foreign exports won't happen unless they are able to produce the goods. Maybe all ( most ) trade becomes more local for a while. Monetary velocity decreases. Requires more thought. Thanks for the ideas.

(Tue May 26 1998 13:56 - ID#410198)
Have you ever said to yourself
Russia is in the tank,wants more cash from IMF,or it will sell its Nuke Subs,Asia is hemorrhageing,,Europe can't decide if it can pull off its one world currency.....and Bill says don't worry be happy.....I say sell the gold and lots of it

(Tue May 26 1998 13:56 - ID#403234)
Crystal Ball (What Bart See's)
Hell! that's what it looks like to me most of the time??? Makes almost
as much sense to me too??.

(Tue May 26 1998 13:59 - ID#410198)
Have you ever said to yourself,I wish I had sold the farm and bought(fill in the blank)
Russia is in the tank,wants more cash from IMF,or it will sell its Nuke Subs,Asia is hemorrhageing,,Europe can't decide if it can pull off its one world currency.....and Bill says don't worry be happy.....I say sell the gold and lots of it

(Tue May 26 1998 13:59 - ID#340302)
@LGB...I will say one thing...
...if silver is NOT a screaming buy at these absurdly low price levels, then there truly is a NEW PARADIGM on Wall Street.



(Tue May 26 1998 14:00 - ID#340344)
Thanks for the question. OK, choose any twenty currencies
that have gone down in USD terms within the past year.
Graph them. Make a mirror image of the graphs. *That* is
what a weakening dollar can look like. Do not assume that
all those other currencies will stay "weak" forever. Let's
not make the common error of assuming that the only thing
that will topple the USD will be "a stronger" currency. The
USD can topple from US internals. All the folks in
countries outside the US could and do make choices every day about
whether to repatriate or otherwise move their "money."

Here's an example. Warren Buffett sells McDonalds stock,
and therefore has USD. He wants to invest umpteen bazillion
USD in the Korean market, because the Won is down and the
market shares are down. Double bang for his "buck." He is
making the Won stronger and the USD weaker.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Tue May 26 1998 14:08 - ID#384350)
Servhard, Y2K link-Concorde, US demise
Link to story about US companies paying $8000/week and ensuring weekend flights back to London on the Concorde to poach Y2K programmers from Britain.
( free Registration may be required for access )

Below, link to graph showing the dramatic fall of inflation-adj US per capita GDP from the early 60's ( +50% ) to late 70's and stagnation ever since.

(Tue May 26 1998 14:10 - ID#252127)
Some thoughts about proposed Homestake, Prime deal

Homestake picks up about US $112 million cash and the first class high grade Eskay Creek Mine for about US $300 million for the rest of Prime shares that she doesn't already own.

Prime gets a stake in a "Mining Great", that hasn't lived up to that reputation for sometime.
On the otherhand "IF" gold were to go the level where it should, Homestake being visable and on the XAU will most likely move faster and higher than Prime.

Prime holders will get Homestake equivalent shares issued by Homestake Canada ( HCI ) and these shares are planed to be traded in Toronto if they have a done deal. This may leave an opening down the line for Homestake to float HCI, if conditions made that necessary.

I wonder if the cash/stash that Prime presently holds will only be used in Canada and will be attributable to HCI's balance sheet if HCI were floated.

Lots of questions unanswered, don't like this.

(Tue May 26 1998 14:11 - ID#347235)
@ F*
It WOULD be in his own best interest.

(Tue May 26 1998 14:11 - ID#254269)
Gunga Din; For most people, currencies are spent locally. Noticed your comment
re John D being half in US Dollars. I don't know why he switched into dollars but if he comes to US, he can spend them here, or anywhere that they are taken, so in many cases, it is an academic argument EXCEPT THAT when you go to switch back into the other currency, you may have a profit or a loss. Right now, much of the " US Dollar strength" is not really a
strength, but actually a weakness of the foreign currency. For example, the time to get out of Indonesia rupiahs, was seven or eight months ago, before all of the trouble. THAT'S WHAT is causing the problems for Indonesians right now, because they have to repay their borrowing in
US Dollars.

(Tue May 26 1998 14:23 - ID#289357)
Carl, chas @ INPATHIQUE

Just returned & saw your questions from this morning......Carl -my guess is that it IS forcasting a reversal.....expecially when viewed in the context of the oversold nature of the XAU on a short-term and intermediate-term basis, and the short-term gold cycle probably turning up.

I'm interested in this forcasting system, but I personally don't intend to put a great deal of weight on it ( by itself ) until it has proven itself to me. A continuation of correct trend forecasting through 2 more up waves and then a break of the channel ( on the way down ) will do that for me, and then I may be interested in buying their system. If the correct forecasting trend holds, then I may take some profits or buy some XAU puts on the 2nd wave up from here, just in case the long fall down proves to be the case.

chas - you may be able to take the long-term chart gif and convert it to a picture file and zoom-in to the area of interest to fit your screen, or perhaps do the same for the short-term chart. I'm not especially adept at such manipulations.

John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 14:29 - ID#24135)
Really ??
For Avalon
I switched to Dollar from Rands ..
because I want out of gold stocks
and I have to stay in cash. I believe
rand may fall against $ to MAYBE as
much as 5.3 .. Thus I sit in $ and wait.
It not to come to the US and spend the
money for godssake.
Maybe I come back to RSA golds .. Maybe
not .. Ill go more to dollars in all
likelihood. We will see...
One thing I will NOT be doing is
buying ABX .. until it hits 3$/share.

(Tue May 26 1998 14:36 - ID#153102)
@Law, Politics, & Gold
For gold commodity traders, law and politics are off topic.
For gold money traders, law and politics are on topic.

A word to the wise on Y2K. If you are in America and your plans do not include an assessment of government actions, you are betting hard against history. Every emergency in the history of this nation has been used by the Executive to increase federal power. Every such power grab has been ratified with a Bill of indemnity by Congress. If you think Y2K is going to occasion an emergency, then you must also calculate the overwhelming probability that the federal government will use that emergency for its own purposes. What FEMA will do in Y2K is odds on much more important to plan for than civil disturbance.

In America 1. Every financial asset is a derivative of the fiat greenback. 2. A genuine public-private partnership has got to involve financial assets.

At some point in the next two years every financial asset in the world is going to be more a creature of law and politics than of economics.

(Tue May 26 1998 14:36 - ID#66136)
JACK Thanks for well expressed thoughts on HM/Prime as the big want to
grow through well established producers with little attention to Jr's. It will add product depth and interesting that both US and RSA firms looking to Canada for exposure.

(Tue May 26 1998 14:36 - ID#373284)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, a no nonsense kind of guy, Hmmmmmmmm
Just hung up the phone with Ed Yardeni...nice worried...

(Tue May 26 1998 14:38 - ID#254269)
John D.
I did not mean to be presumptuous as to your reason for making a switch. I suspected that it may be because of weakness in Rand versus dollar, but I do not follow SA curency and did not mean to "speak for you" in my post to GungaDin.

@ GungaDin; in this example, if SA rand does weaken, John can switch back and pick up a currency profit ( if he chooses ) .

(Tue May 26 1998 14:39 - ID#333127)
Anyone want to offer an opinion as to pm's direction for the next few days. I see nothing to be optomistic about.

John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 14:40 - ID#24135)
I think youve GOT IT

For Jims ..
Isnt that you with the Homestake
data wiggly cycle forecasting method ..
You win the prize.. Get that thing
patented .. and teach me how to do

(Tue May 26 1998 14:43 - ID#340302)
F*'s Evaluation of the Gold Market....
...OK, I admit it! I was wrong!

I surrender. Gold's headed straight for the toilet and may, in fact, be used as a cheap material substitute for porcelain in manufacturing the shiny white bowls. Silver will be used as a cheap replacement for iron metal. The U.S. dollar will supplant all world currencies. The DOW will break 10,000 next month.

Merrill Lynch hedge funds are run by the true wizards of the world as they have recognized paper gold is much more valuable than real gold.

I capitulate ( on behalf of all goldbugs ) .



( har, har, har )

(Tue May 26 1998 14:45 - ID#26467)
John Disney: Good move.I got scalped at the opening selling
ABX 20 1/2 -5/8 went net short, just covered at 20.
Doubled my position in RANGY at 1 buck.I feel we still
going to climb ,it is going to be rocky.The gold price
will be higher at the end of the week from now.
Again liquid stocks are the game to play,whether long or short.

(Tue May 26 1998 14:48 - ID#288369)
@Lord Disney........
Do you have a price objective in mind for Rangy? Would you consider 7/8 as relatively cheap, referencing Drooy and Hgmcy? Thanks.

(Tue May 26 1998 14:49 - ID#373284)
Doing MY part...
Gave the gardeners gold and beer...............

John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 14:49 - ID#24135)
OK I forgive you
Avalon ..
If you have to go to CASH then you
should go to the curency that you
feel will be strongest over the
period you will be out of the market
( and also tempered by the yield you
can get on that currency .. 15 % on
rand vs maybe 5% tops on the $ ) ..
The Dmark would maybe be good too
but I think the dollar is a bit
The yen is obviously to be avoided.

(Tue May 26 1998 14:49 - ID#347457)
OK, any suggestions what to do?!
Well, any wisdom how low are we going with PM? I am reaching the point to start loosing more than desirable. Should I pull out now or are we reaching the bottom ( and with my luck I'll miss the upswing which tends to be largest when things turn around ) . In addition to my PM losses my oil sector performs just about the same :- (

(Tue May 26 1998 14:51 - ID#254269)
tolerant 1; are you hiring more
gardeners ?

(Tue May 26 1998 14:52 - ID#390415)
Gold is getting hammered...
but then goldsmiths have been doing that for centuries, haven't they? And it is still around. The Most Malleable Metal ( more or less ) .

(Tue May 26 1998 14:53 - ID#373284)
Always, I have many blades..............and they need tending...Namaste'

(Tue May 26 1998 14:55 - ID#254269)
tolerant 1; Now that we've got the basic compensation (gold) out of the way, let'swh
talke about the benefits. What type of beer ?

(Tue May 26 1998 14:58 - ID#344239)

(Tue May 26 1998 14:58 - ID#340459)
Strong Dollar Vs Euro and Rest of the World

IMVHO, Not many people around the Globe are laughing their way to the Bank with the phenomena of a Strong Dollar. Infact, Billions around the World are becoming poor steadily as we speak. It is not helping US Factories in high or low tech, It is creating trade imbalances of gargantuan proportions for US of A, this twister is just around the corner and will hit Wall Street soon as No country can afford a deluge of cheap imports as taught in grade 1 of any Economics study or class.

Isnt this a Global Economy ?

What is happening now is weakening of all classes of global paper issued by their respective Central Bunkers ( deliberately mis-spelt ) based on pure speculation and optimum efficiency of their presses. The actions of Soros have inculcated in exposing areas of vulnerability for Sharks and Whales to eat the tuna, The winking and ( in ) actions by Fed/IMF to this scrouge of rampant currency speculation has acclerated the process of mass slaughter of little fish and this stock is being depleting fast by their insatiable greed and hunger of the Larger Sharks. When there is no more food left they will eat each other's tail ( US$ Vs Euro/DM ) to maintain their huge bodies and then they will realize their folly, that it is good to temper their appetite and let smaller fish survive and procreate to continue and maintain their sources of food supply.

The Dow is moving sideways, slightly lower or nowhere at all for a month now, The Millions of Investors are looking for past returns. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE HORIZION TO MOVE THE MARKETS UP and Fed is hiding in the corner, not to disturb this Paper Castle of over valuations and warped derivatives, Let's remember what happened to many big Banks around the globe when their derivates sh&t hit the fan and their gambles went awry, Big Time Losses. The Singapore Trader alone screwed the Blood, Sweat and Tears of thousands of Bank Employees in one shot.
The same is likely happening now on a massive scale in Stocks, Bonds and Commodities. Cendant, a Wall Street Darling, a $ 20 billion behemoth was cut in half within minutes of Trading. In this environment one is safer with a bet that is at historic lows compared to one that is at historic high.

(Tue May 26 1998 15:00 - ID#373284)
Taddy Porter...ah yesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Tue May 26 1998 15:00 - ID#287193)
@ Gianni Dioro_A and all..
Gianni Dioro__A Thank you. I do get in through another site but have not registered because of this:

4. In accessing the Internet Editions, you agree that you will access content solely for your own
personal, non-commercial use. You undertake not to copy, download, store in any medium
( including any other web site ) , distribute, transmit, re-transmit, modify, or show in public any part
of the Internet Editions without the prior written permission of Times Newspapers Ltd or in
accordance with the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988;

5. Permission to access the Internet Editions is personal to you and you may not let any other
person ( including multiple users on a network ) access the Internet Editions using your user name
and password without the express written permission of the Webmaster.

6. You may not set up links to either of the Internet Editions except to the index page of The
Times website at or the index page of The Sunday Times website at, without the express written permission of the Webmaster.
Has anybody had promblems with the law regarding this writ ?
Ones they have your identity they could act a lot faster. Or?
Is one of our brothers here a lawyer? ( without fee please )

John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 15:01 - ID#24135)
I dont think this is ..
..Business as Usual ..

For StudioR/Cyclist
I'm REALLY bearish .. I will not
add to rangy even at 7/8 which Im
pretty sure we'll see. A 50 % retrace
on Harmony would take us to 4$. I'd
look at Harmony if I can get better
than that. Depending on gold.. I just
feel like we are going to get
surprised with that wave 5 DOWN
number. Number one son has said this
all along .. he has saved me a lot
of money by finally convincing me.
Maybe Im wrong .. Its my assumption
for the time being .. If the tooth
fairy and santa show up tomorrow and
everything is groovey .. Ill come
back and play.. I need a break
anyway.. devote more time to the

(Tue May 26 1998 15:08 - ID#335190)
Union Leadership @ Policemen
May 25, 1998

Labor code amendments go to Senate

OTTAWA ( CP ) -- Amendments to tighten Canada Labor Code sections dealing with strikes passed third reading in the Commons on Monday and will head to the Senate for debate.

Liberal and NDP members in the House voted in favor of Bill C-19, while Reform, Bloc and Tory MPs voted against it. It passed 160-96.

Labor Minister Lawrence MacAulay gained support for the bill from such groups as diverse as the Canadian Labor Congress and the Canadian Chamber of Commerce.

NOTE: Herbert Hoover, in his successful campaign for the Presidency against Democrat Al Smith, declared on July 27 1928, " The outlook for the world today is for the greatest era of commercial expansion in our history."

Bruce Barton was describing Christ as the First Big Business Man, declaring that American business was only practical Christianity. The Rev.Christian Reisner, of New York's Broadway Temple, said he "loved big business men" and that they were the highest expression of spiritual development. Big Business had won the day. It was supreme.

NOTE: October 1929 the bubble burst. its symbol was the tumbling stock market where nearly 25 billion of dollars in stock market values were wiped out almost overnight. Its reality was the fact that big monopoly, ever eager to increase its already swollen profits, expanded plant capacity and production to such an extent that there was an overproduction of producers' goods, and consumer commodities, all at the expense of the American people.

While employers kept the wages of most Americans below the minimum needed to supply even the basic necessities of life, they drove their workers to speed up production, thus producing more and more at less and less cost to themselves. (

As a result of such speed-up and low wage policies, employers saw their profits zooming and instead of more equitably distributing these, regularly plowed part of them back into production.

Under the circumstances the American people were unable to buy back what they had produced.

As banker Frank Vanderlip admitted: "Capital kept too much and labour did not have enough to buy its share of things." And, for that matter, the Federal Government itself was soon to declare in its famous TNEC report on monopoly, "A more nearly perfect mechanism for making the poor poorer and the rich richer or for making depressions could scarcely be devised."

There was food, millions of tons of it. But people soon were starving as the fiid was destroyed or left to rot because it could not be sold at a profit. There was clothing, warehouses filled with it, and millions were shivering for lack of it as the depression continued but the clothing could not be used to keep the people warm because the people had no money to buy it.

Some 5,761 banks failed. Gross farm income dropped from 12 billions of dollars to a little over five billions. Wage cuts came one after the other until they averaged forty-five ( 45 ) per cent for all industry. Industrial production dropped by almost fifty ( 50 ) per cent. By 1933 there were anywhere from 12,000,000 to 17,000,000 unemployed. ( 25 % unemployment )

In general the officials of the American Federation of Labor backed the President ( Hoover ) . They ( AFL ) did not oppose the wage-cutting program nor did they offer any program of their own for the relief of the unemployed. There were virtually no AFL STRIKES IN RESISTANCE TO WAGE CUTS as William Green, Matthew Woll and others of the AFL hierarchy joined President Hoover in assuring the workers that "PROSPERITY was just around the corner" Following the lead of the National Association of Manufacturers and the United States Chamber of Commerce, ( Canadian Chamber of Commerce ) .

The AFL, one year after the crisis began ( 1930 ) , went on record against unemployment insurance. Green ( AFL ) characterized unemployment insurance as "A HINDRANCE TO PROGRESS," "A DOLE" which would degrade "THE DIGNITY OF THE WORKINGMAN" and " SUBSIDIZED IDLENESS."

As Green ( AFL ) took his stand, the United States Chamber of Commerce described unemployment insurance as Communism, declared those fighting for it were un-Americans "TRYING TO SAP THE INITIATIVE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE."

FWIW. Take Care

(Tue May 26 1998 15:09 - ID#340302)
F*'s Evaluation of the Platinum/Palladium Markets...
....with Russia's equities markets falling into the toilet on almost a daily basis, then it will not be long before sheer desperation drives the Russians to offer Plat and Palladium for whatever price they can get.

Since nobody can afford to buy computers or cars in Asia, then there is the final nail in the coffin for Plat and Palladium.

Look Out Below!



(Tue May 26 1998 15:11 - ID#340302)
@DISNEY....relax and take a deep breath... read way too much of the material on this forum.



(Tue May 26 1998 15:15 - ID#288369)
@Lord Disney.....
Thanks Big John.

(Tue May 26 1998 15:27 - ID#410215)
..... farfel .....

Farfel -

Could you explain, in detail, your reasons for your stated view on platinum? Do you have any facts or figures to support your contention that platinum will fall? Are you aware of actual Russian supplies? Are you aware of current industrial usage? Do you think that platinum usage has gone up or down over the last several months? What is the capacity of industry to meet current demand? Future demand? Are there any stockpiles to go to supplement shipments? Has any product with platinum in its history experienced a fall-off of sales? Are there any new products that require platinum entering the market? Are there acceptable substitutes for platinum in certain applications?

I would like to learn why you believe platinum will fall.

Thank You

(Tue May 26 1998 15:29 - ID#333127)
Looks like ABX heading down again as the mkt closes.

(Tue May 26 1998 15:29 - ID#266110)
@ChasAbar 12:27 --- Lower AU price in US$ / A great buying opportunity
Good post for those who are singing the blues. For those out there, would you complain if you went to the grocery store to buy beef whose typical price for hamburger is $1.50/lb for your favorite cut, and then find out that you could buy it for $.75/lb or even $.50/lb? I don't think so. At least this red meat eater wouldn't respond that way. I'd be loading up and having lots of it for as many meals as possible.

So if this is the way we respond with most BARGAINS out there, then why the long faces about the PMs? They're a great buy right now and when the window of opportunity closes, it may not return for years to come. We've already seen a pretty good increase from the Dec '97 - Jan'98 lows. But I don't hear too many people reflecting their good fortune for having bought tangible or stocks during that time.

If you study the recent trends for tangible Au and Ag, there is a definite floor ( below which prices will not drop ) . This is due to many factors, including a refusal to sell ( by owners ) if prices drop too low. Probably most of us are doing the same thing. We bought tangible and stocks at low prices but refuse to sell even if there is a slight dip in prices. --- Especially for tangible PMs being used as a hedge, you don't sell when the price drops. You hold on and maybe buy more.

As has been said by enough Kitcoites, paper reigns supreme right now as derivatives and the like cast the ship of PMs around like a dingy on an angry. This is due to too much fiat currency flowing around out there with no market respect for the PMs. Once the age of fiat currencies comes to an end, then the excesses will also come to an end.

PMs are being pushed around by the Stock Market MANIA and cannot possibly take their rightful place until after the bubble bursts. But when it does, it will be such sweet music for those holders of PMs.


(Tue May 26 1998 15:30 - ID#255151)

Anything of note from Yardeni? The latest I read was that he says 60% chance of world wide recession due to Y2K. I think we'll be incredibly lucky if all we get is a recession.

(Tue May 26 1998 15:32 - ID#413195)
in sack-o-tomatoes
LGB: I choose my words carefully. Go back and re-read exactly what I *did* say -- carefully, this time. I did NOT claim that Loral transferred nuclear technology to China. Sheesh . . .

(Tue May 26 1998 15:35 - ID#269409)
@ ROn....
Go back and re-read your own post pal, and then compare it to the FACTS in this matter....

Loral Issues Fact Sheet On China Issues

Business Wire - May 19, 1998 18:37


NEW YORK-- ( BUSINESS WIRE ) --May 19, 1998--In view of recent publicity on the subject of Space Systems/Loral and China,
the company has put together the following Fact Sheet. It provides what it believes to be a more complete and balanced picture of
this subject. It is being provided for your interest and use.

Allegations that Space Systems/Loral provided missile guidance technology to the Chinese are false.

SS/L makes commercial communications satellites, not launch vehicles. The company did not advise the Chinese on how to fix any
problems with the Long March rocket. All company employees were specifically instructed not to provide any such assistance, and
the company believes that its employees acted in good faith to comply with the strict and complex requirements of the export
control laws.

SS/L maintains rigorous security for launches in China. In addition, before exporting a satellite to China, U.S. satellite companies
must obtain an export license from the U.S. Government. The license tightly restricts Chinese access to any part of the satellite and
limits the technical data and assistance that may be provided to the Chinese.

Charges by unnamed sources in the press paint an inaccurate picture of the role of the American commercial satellite industry
after the February 1996 Long March rocket failure. That failure involved the attempted launch of a satellite manufactured by SS/L
for Intelsat, the international communications consortium. Intelsat had selected Long March as its launch vehicle, and the U.S.
Government, according to law, approved the use of the Chinese booster.

The Chinese - and the Chinese alone - conducted an independent investigation of the launch failure and they determined that the
problem was a defective solder joint in the wiring - a "low-tech" matter.

Assertions that SS/L and Hughes made an independent investigation to determine the cause of the launch failure are not correct.
The satellite companies were not asked to investigate the launch failure independently, nor did they do so. The Chinese did not
want outsiders probing into the matter. The insurance industry, however, was unwilling to insure future Long March launches
unless outside ( non-Chinese ) engineers concluded that the Chinese had in fact solved their own problem with the Long March. In
April 1996, at the insurance companies' insistence, representatives of several satellite companies were asked to review the results
of the Chinese investigation to determine if they were adequate.

The review committee's function was to obtain information from the Chinese, not to help the Chinese solve their problem. The
Chinese had come to their conclusion about the cause of the failure before the review committee was initiated. The committee's
review determined that the Chinese investigation's conclusion -- that a failed solder joint was the most likely cause of the launch
failure -- was correct. The review committee did not perform any tests or provide any test data to the Chinese. The committee did,
however, note that further tests by the Chinese would be required to achieve certainty.

This entire activity was carried out openly. Press releases on the review committee's work were issued. While it was underway,
SS/L discussed the review committee's work with a number of U.S. officials interested in China's space program. As far as SS/L
engineers can determine, no sensitive information - no significant technology - was conveyed to the Chinese. No "secret" or
"classified" information was ever discussed with the Chinese or included in any reports provided to the Chinese.

The matter became an issue because, contrary to SS/L's own internal policies, the committee provided a report to the Chinese
before consulting with State Department export licensing authorities. As soon as SS/L management learned of this in May 1996,
SS/L informed the State Department and the Defense Department. SS/L then made complete disclosure of the facts to the U.S.
Government in June 1996 including a detailed, written report of all communications with the Chinese. The company is cooperating
fully with a Justice Department investigation and with the relevant congressional committees. Based upon its own review of the
matter, SS/L does not believe that any of its employees dealing with China acted illegally or damaged U.S. national security.

Bernard Schwartz, Chairman of Loral Space & Communications Ltd., the parent company of SS/L, was not personally involved in
any aspect of this matter. No political favors or benefits of any kind were requested or extended, directly or indirectly, by any
means whatever.

Allegations of a connection between the launch failure and a subsequent Presidential authorization for use of Chinese launch
services for another SS/L satellite to China are without foundation. The authorization, one of 16 such waivers approved by
Presidents Bush and Clinton since 1989, was handled in a routine way by U.S. Government experts. Contrary to the allegations,
the waiver did not authorize SS/L to transfer technology to the Chinese; it did not waive the requirement that SS/L obtain all the
usual export licenses and approvals relating to the launch. In fact, the export license for the new launch applied the strictest
prohibitions on technology transfer and specified that any new launch failure investigation would require a separate license. Loral
complies strictly with all U.S. export control laws and regulations.

CONTACT: Jeanette Clonan ( 212 ) 338-5658

John Disney__A
(Tue May 26 1998 15:38 - ID#24135)
What would I do without YOU
Farfelberger ..
You're right .. I'll try to cut
back ..
I'll start by not reading your
stuff ..

For RJ ..
And I suggest most respectfully that
you do likewise.. Farfelknickle is a
professional chain puller.
If you cut out farfel, you maybe
save 2 hours every 3 months .. You
could use that time to see Godzilla
4 times a year instead of reading
farfelstilkin and wind up no worse off.

(Tue May 26 1998 15:39 - ID#269409)
@ ROn
PS...the release I just posted aren't "spin" facts, their genuine facts. I know...I was here...those inviolved were well aware of what really went on. The crap you've been fed in the media is as much a pack of deceptive nonsense as what Clinton spews forth himself. BS is BS, even when it originates from the right wing and the ignorant press. As a lover of truth, we must adhere to same, even when it doesn't conveniently fit into our pre-conceived notions. ( And I am a Clinton hater and one who would want all domestic satellites launched HERE by the way )

(Tue May 26 1998 15:40 - ID#255151)
Brazil down 5%

All of Latin America in the red ( wish I had studied more Latin in school )

(Tue May 26 1998 15:43 - ID#242325)
JP: You have argued that deflation is bullish be bullish for gold. Utter bunk unless the survival of the financial system is threatened, thus forcing the powers that be to inflate with abandon. Short of that, deflation is the worst possible environment for POG as today's action demonstates.

(Tue May 26 1998 15:45 - ID#31868)
The more I think about it...........Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...I prefer to
stay and give my best so that people live well in spite of themselves...

(Tue May 26 1998 15:45 - ID#153102)
@Lock & Load
The reason for the gloom at Kitco is that it is frequented mostly by gold commodity traders.
For forty years it was illegal for an American to own gold.
Forty years was long enough to interrupt the transmission of cultural knowledge from generation to generation. The old folks might say gold is money, but what do they know ?
During the same period, the people lost the common law which had governed their parents and grandparents back to when this land was colonized. So, the old folks knowledge was rendered apparently obsolete in the eyes of the young. So the knowledge that gold is money was erased from the parole knowledge that is handed from generation to generation as the transmission of a people's culture.
The only Americans who still know gold is money are people who have more than the parole knowledge of history and culture. And many of them are not sure in their hearts because there is no validation that gold is money anywhere in the media or popular culture.

(Tue May 26 1998 15:49 - ID#340302)
RJ...naturally, I will defer to your superior knowledge...
...of the plat and palladium markets. There is NO contest there.

I have no doubt you know much more about plat/palladium esoterica than I do. It is not my area of expertise.

However, that said, my assessment of plat/palladium is based on the general collapse occurring in other words, I am making an economic assessment of commodities in general. As someone trained in the field of economics, I believe it is not presumptuous of me to make such an assessment.

If, in fact, we are about to experience pandemic simultaneous stock market meltdowns all across the globe, then the supply situation of plat/palladium is meaningless. They will fall just like any other commodities as desperate Russian and So. African governments dump the stuff to raise liquidity. Essentially, aggregate global demand will shrink and no commodities will be spared.

This, of course, is the pure deflationary hypothesis.

However, you will be happy to know I still believe we will experience stagflation in America ( which would be GOOD for commodities ) .

However, today's commodities performance is extremely unnerving as it supports the pure deflation hypothesis ( with all commodities dropping ) .

Ultimately, I am not infallible and only God knows which way the wind will blow.

In any case, RJ, you should take note of one salient fact: as someone who has made many negative comments regarding gold ( in the past, at least ) someone who has "appeared" to revel in gold's malaise, then you should be careful about what you wish for in this world.

If we are about to experience a pure global deflation, then gold's malaise will be a mere portent of the decimation that will occur in other commodities ( plat and palladium, no exception ) . In fact, gold's chances of price strength either during or after the fact will be much higher than either plat or palladium's chances.

After all, last I looked, most central banks still regard gold as "a financial reserve." As such, it should be one of the last assets to be jettisoned in a real financial melt-down.

Simply put, a financial systemic chaos is not conducive to high aggregate demand for the products that utilize Plat or Palladium.



(Tue May 26 1998 15:52 - ID#340302)
@DISNEY...well, at least your sense of humor is back...
...I was getting a little worried about you, my friend.

Wave 5 downward and all that stuff.



P.S. By the way...So. Africa is another place I am hoping to visit someday soon. I've heard too many fantastic things about the place. Somehow...some wife and I are going to make it down there.

If we do, then we will look you up, OK?

(Tue May 26 1998 15:59 - ID#413195)
in sack-o-tomatoes
LGB: Uh-Huh. You want me to believe a Benedict Bernie Schwartz public relations piece of trash? Get real.

Read this, chum ( you know, LGB, what really surprises and disappoints me about this is that *you* would have ANYTHING at all to do with it, that you wouldn't just walk away from a job before helping the Chinese achieve greater accuracy with missles aimed at U.S. cities ) :


World Net Daily

May 26, 1998 Joseph Farah

Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.

The Clinton-Loral-China axis

Bernard Schwartz, chief executive officer of Loral Space & Communications, tells

The New York Times he considers President Clinton a friend, "but not the kind of

friend that you can call upon for favors."

We're supposed to believe that Schwartz invested $1.3 million in Clinton's political

campaigns without the expectation of special treatment. If that's true, you would

expect Loral stockholders to demand an explanation for such reckless disregard of

their interests. I doubt you'll see such a move. Because Loral got plenty of bang for

its buck.

"I can say absolutely, categorically, I have never spoken with the president about

any Loral business, except on one occasion," he says. Notice the careful wording of

that statement. Never ... except on one occasion. Furthermore, it's clear Schwartz

and his company did ask the president and his administration for favors -- for

special treatment -- on more than one occasion.

Last February, Schwartz needed a quick decision from the government about the

launching of a Loral satellite aboard a Chinese rocket later that month. Within two

weeks the president gave Loral permission -- overruling the advice of his Justice

Department, which was investigating Loral's satellite deals with China. Clinton also

broke with past policy and the advice of his State Department and Pentagon.

When was the last time you got an answer -- any answer -- from the federal

government in less than two weeks? This was a big favor -- a huge one. By working

with the Chinese, instead of U.S. satellite launchers, the deal saved Loral potentially

hundreds of millions of dollars.

Nevertheless, Schwartz maintains he never personally asked the president for

anything that would benefit his company. These are lawyerly word games -- the kind

America has become accustomed to since this administration came to power.

This was just the most recent favor. In 1994, Schwartz pushed hard for a seat on a

trip to China led by Commerce Secretary Ron Brown. The trip paid off in spades

for Loral. A meeting in Beijing with a top official led to Loral winning a deal to

provide cellular telephone service to China, an agreement that will soon be worth

$250 million annually.

Later, in May 1996, Schwartz wrote to Clinton urging him make the Commerce

Department the clearing house for approval of export licensing of commercial

satellites rather than the State Department. Once again, Schwartz got his way.

But still, we're supposed to believe that Clinton would have made the same decisions

with the same timing had Schwartz not been the single biggest donor to the his

political career. For Pete's sake, last year Clinton even threw Schwartz a birthday

party at the White House.

None of this stuff is really new or particularly earth-shaking, however. Money has

always been linked to political influence. No matter what kinds of campaign finance

reforms America adopts, it simply seems to get worse. But the real horror, the real

crime, the real treachery of the Clinton-Loral-China axis comes in the substance of

the deals with China -- the dirty little details about technology transferred to China

because of this political patronage.

This is a scandal unlike any other in American history. Clinton and Schwartz have

nothing on Benedict Arnold. The sensitive technical data shared with the Chinese for

simple greed and power has apparently enhanced the reliability of Beijing's

long-range nuclear missiles -- missiles, by the way, targeted at the United States.

Schwartz doesn't like such talk. He objects when people like me suggest he placed

his own avaricious business interests ahead of national security. But, you know

what? I don't really blame Schwartz. There are always greedy businessmen willing to

sell out their country's long-term interests for a little short-term financial gain. What

is shocking, however, is to consider the fact that we have a president of the United

States who is willing to make such treasonous decisions.

"To attach words like 'treason' and 'traitor' to these activities is a deeply disturbing

development," moans Schwartz.

I'll bet it is. It's always disturbing when a criminal gets caught. It's even more

disturbing when our highest elected officials, entrusted, first and foremost, with

protecting the nation's vital interests, sell their political souls to nuclear-age tyrants.

The only trouble I have with words like "treason" and "traitor" is that they don't

seem harsh enough to describe the shameful activities of Clinton and Schwartz.

Joseph Farah is editor of the Internet newspaper and executive director of

the Western Journalism Center, an independent group of investigative reporters.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:02 - ID#410215)
..... Farfel .....

I will address some other points later, but your misunderstanding of the PGM market is a common one.

There are no stockpiles to go to.

They do not exist.

From where are the Russians and the South Africans going to get the metal they dump on the market?

This alone, undermines your argument.

I will be back later to shred it completely.

In the most polite way possible.

Thank You

(Tue May 26 1998 16:04 - ID#252127)

I think that Homestake would do better to sell Prime their Canada interests ( Hemlo etc. ) while holding or increasing their percentage interst in Prime. Down the line they would have greater value than throwing Prime in with their still iffy condition. i think that this can hurt both Homestake more than if they let Prime grow under their majority share interst.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:06 - ID#269409)
@ Ron....
Ron, just to refresh your memory on why I felt compelled to respond to the cheap shot you took while I was your LGB/Loral post of 5/20, 16:52, you said ( among other things ) "Yep, it seems that Loral has been lucratively, abeit treasonously, engaged in the sale of nuclear missile technology to the Communist Chinese government these many years"

Au contrair in spades pal, now you know I like ya Ron, but that whole post of yours was an incredibly ill advised, and uninformed, cheap shot hit piece.

Apologies to forum for wasting bandwidth on yet another off topic post on this rocket science matter...but when a really cheap shot is made, directly at me and the employer who employs me.....I must feel compelled to respond. I like this company, I like the folks here, I like the technology, I enjoy the career. I'll brook no lying, deceptive, ignorant, media sensationalized, crap...when it bears no connection to the actual facts. A broken solder joint, failure analysis as "High technology transfer" of nuclear rocket science? Puuuhhhlleeeaaazzze!!!!!!!

(Tue May 26 1998 16:11 - ID#31868)

(Tue May 26 1998 16:12 - ID#373403)
"When one of our $200 million satellites fell out of the sky during launch, because our vendor ( China ) , had a launch vehicle failure, we insisted on reviewing thier "Failure Analysis" before any future launches took place. Our "technology transfer" to China consisted solely of our report/review of their "Failure analysis"...which basically concurred with their findings."

I think this is what the Justice Department was investigating when Clinton signed the technology transfer waiver POST TRANSFER! Seems everyone was in agreement that this was an ILLEGAL and UNNAPROVED transfer.

My understanding is that China could only hit the Midwest if they were targeting Chicago and now with your company's help they can actually hit the city. Thanks alot Bernie!

(Tue May 26 1998 16:12 - ID#229277)
OLD GOLD: deflation is bad for gold
Cash is king; That's the rule with deflation. But, what if we have deflation that is like inverted stagflation. Stagflation is inflation without growth. What if we have price deflation that leads to equity and asset deflation, that sends capital looking for a safe haven but... at the same time we have currency deflation? If you are worried about what kind of currency to park your cash in, isn't gold less risky?

(Tue May 26 1998 16:12 - ID#269409)
Must you persist in your idiocy Ron? You apparently failed to understand what I already said. It's not the press release that matters to me...though it is indeed factual

I know the facts from the INSIDE got it? I was involved, is that clear enough for you? I don't care what you read in some rag, from some byline wannabe lookin to be the next Woodward and Bernstein..even if it's in the NY Times.... I happen to have DIRECT knowledge of the facts, so stow your igorant rantings puhlease.

PS, I'm a Loral fan. I'm NOT a "Bernie" fan, particularly considering his record of contributions and influence peddling.....but in this matter, he is blameless.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:13 - ID#340459)
Joke of the Day
President Bill Clinton said the U.S. is headed for a $39 billion federal budget surplus this year,
according to a forecast in the Office of Management and Budget's mid-session economic review. The
figure is lower than Congressional Budget Office estimates of $43 billion to $63 billion for the fiscal year
ending Sept. 30, 1998. CBO's estimates are crucial to Congress because they determine how much
money legislators can spend. It would be the first surplus since 1969.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:13 - ID#340302)
@RJ...about a month ago, I attended a dinner party...
...where I met an import-export agent who deals primarily in commodity trade between Asia and America. He told me that various domestic semiconductor companies have been accumulating huge stockpiles of Palladium...and American car manufacturers have been accumulating huge stockpiles of Plat.

If that is true, then I imagine there effectively is already an oversupply of the stuff ( which would be exacerbated by any "potential" global commodities meltdown...see my previous post ) .



(Tue May 26 1998 16:19 - ID#410215)
..... Farfel .....

Before I refute your latest with actual facts and sources, perhaps I may ask one question.

Does a commodity in "oversupply" achieve historic highs in price?

I must return to the office.

Thank you

(Tue May 26 1998 16:20 - ID#31868)
William Jefferson Clinton - MY NAME IS KEVAN S. KHANAMIRIAN and you
PAL had better not spit on the graves of my FATHER's BEST and your handlers know exactly what I am talking about...NSA, FBI, call those KIDS they all know me and where to find me.


My wrath is not what you want on the breakfast table...PAL...............

(Tue May 26 1998 16:25 - ID#410215)
..... Farfel .....

Before you dig yourself deeper, I must admit this is a trap.

Before you write of supply and demand, take a good look around you

I will wager a new computer you are looking at platinum right now.

The catalytic market is not the only use of these metals.

Many people are not aware of how much platinum they use

Some are surprised to find themselves ingesting it

Others find It brightens their lives

You are using it now


(Tue May 26 1998 16:26 - ID#57232)
The future of gold --
Farfel, and RJ: Farfel -- I think you do not give RJ enough credit for his insight into the gold markets. Yes -- you are right that gold is an asset that will go up in value eventually -- there are cycles in everything. So - technically you are right even if it takes 20 years.

In reality, we all know that we are in a long term bottoming phase after a ( long ) 2 year bear market. The question is when gold will rally. Probably a better statement would not be 'rally' but rather a trading range -- for several months, at least. I think you should tip your hat to RJ, the Oldman, APH, Cyclist etc. on that matter, as the traders ( not the long - term investors ) will have the best insight into the 'when'. Right now I have about 30% of my liquid assets in gold stocks ( as of last week ) , and I am regretting every minute of it. I haven't decided whether a 5% losss is all I can tolerate, or whether I will go to 10%. I know that time is on my side, but I do now know that I was premature, and I have learned some technical lessons the hard ( and probably the best ) . The gold market is especially difficult to play in when there is so much deflation in the world around us.

On the positive side, I still have alot of cash left over for the right moment, even if I am not making money right now on the short side.

I think the US markets will stride right into the y2k era without a collapse. That will be long term bullish for gold.

Just think how much more money you could make if you listened a bit more to RJ and Oldman, etal -- after translating the information they are giving you into your own investment style. I have learned alot.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:28 - ID#269409)
@ MissingLink
You too now eh? Look man, when a U.S. satellite manufacturer who's European customer wants to lauch from China, asks to review results of a failure analysis, and concurs that a broken solder joint was the cause of failure.....from what lofty heights of brilliance do we then conclude that this has aided China in targeting U.S. cities?

Do you have ANY idea how much technology has already been transferred to China under previous administrations going all the way back to Nixon...the sum total of which would make our review of the broken solder joint, appear as a grain of sand in all the beaches of all the world?

We as a company gave NOTHING to China...this I know for a fact..firsthand. Further, all the OTHER satellite consortiums are using foreign lauch facilities like China's for the same reasons we do.

We've been getting these waivers since the Bush administration. Only now we have the "hype" because of the NY times artciles. I say the smoke is in the Chinese contributions to the DNC and CLinton, not with Bernie and Loral who have been doing business the same way long before Clinton, ( and comparable to all the other big satellite manufactureres in this global economy )

We also use Indonesia and Russia...have been well before have all the other big satellite manufacturers. WITH congressional approval, including from Republicans. Are the all now treasonous? If so , that would be a more consistent argument and one I might be able to swallow.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:29 - ID#410215)
..... One more thing .....

I will use Johnson Matthey statistics ( dated last week ) to support my argument.

Most, in this industry consider them conservative in their projections, so I am sure I will find nobody disagreeing with the numbers, yes?

(Tue May 26 1998 16:34 - ID#340302)
@EJ....a slow withering deflation is anathema...
...for gold, silver, plat, and palladium. In fact, commodities in general would be screwed!

However, a sudden severe deflation that results in global currency chaos would favor gold and silver tremendously. Unfortunately, plat and palladium would not necessarily be beneficiaries as they do not constitute financial reserves in our global economic system.

Treasury Bills would be the only safe financial havens.

Treasury Bonds would not necessarily be safe, e.g., Japan decides to sell its entire holding of treasuries in order to force liquidity into its domestic banking system.

In the short term, certain Corporate, State, and Municipal bonds would crash.. There would be some companies and governments unable to make interest payments while others remained solvent....unfortunately, those companies and governments unable to make their interest payments would create a negative spillover effect upon healthier governments and corporations. The ultimate effect...eventually, a bond market collapse such that Cash would be King.



Bill Buckler
(Tue May 26 1998 16:34 - ID#256381)
It's Cash Time
Dow down 150.71 ( -1.65% ) . S&P down 16.45 ( -1.48% ) . Gold down $4.40 ( -1.47% ) .

U.S. Dollar up against everything I can see except the Swiss Franc. US bond yields down 5 to 6 basis points. Everybody is trying to get "liquid". The interesting thing is what they decide to do once they have been "liquid" for a while.

Speaking of "liquid" - re Clinton's claim that the U.S. will see a $39 Billion surplus this year - right now ( May 22 ) , the Treasury reports debt "to the penny" at $5.5045 TRILLION. That's up $91.4 Billion this year.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:35 - ID#231337)
Monetary War or Hot War?
Interesting times... these are. The US of A:

- brings the mid east to a near war... remember, arms stored in the palaces, so search and arrest. Outcome: none found ... yet!.

- aids in fighting far east financial crisis in Korea and Indonesia by sending in the IMF. Outcome: their financials tank. - President Clinton announces huge annual US surplus. Outcome: Accumulated deficit rises by 10 X the surplus!!

- dollar increases in value relative to the rest of the world, disadvantaging US industry. Outcome... US markets rise to ever new heights.

- supposed standard of living goes up, while the rest of the world collapses. Outcome.. lets wait, but not for long.

There is an ever increasing sense that this stacked deck of cards being played out in the favour of the US is about to backfire. Heard on board a visiting US battleship over the weekend here in Victoria BC, "if they don't see it our way, we can and will use these little babies". That sentiment is reflected in their approach to the monetary war in much the same fashion as their military would apply its force in a shooting war. The question is not, will the rest of the world push back, but when will the rest of the world push back?

That war increasingly looks to be an economic war, not a military action, at least initially. On the military side, the US looks and is unbeatable. But on the monetary side, they are vulnerable. One of the main weapons in the monetary war will be gold. Another will be cheap ( relative to the US ) labour. It looks like the Europeans are setting up for that encounter, and will use the gold weapon. We dont know, but are the Mid East powers and the Chinese doing the same? Where did that supposed 1000 tonnes of Dutch, the Korean 275 tonnes, the Australian or Belgian gold go?, China?, Saudi Arabia?, ... where? Meanwhile, the consequential result of the huge deflation in the Far East gives them the labour advantage. They will flood the US with cheap things.

Gold will ultimately be the choice benchmark, thus neutralising the many factors so skilfully managed by the US. That tells me that the Mid East will look to be paid in gold for that oil, or a currency backed by gold. Its an interesting fact that since the second world war, no freeworld commercial aircraft has ever been paid for in anything but US $$... until now! I believe the Belgians have purchased 3 aircraft from Airbus, and will pay for them in Euro's.

I think the war has started.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:43 - ID#347235)
My hats of to you my friend. RSavage said you had real cojones, now I believe it!

(Tue May 26 1998 16:44 - ID#340302)
@RJ....yes, indeedy
Date: Tue May 26 1998 16:19
RJ ( ..... Farfel ..... ) ID#410215:

Before I refute your latest with actual facts and sources, perhaps I may ask one question.

Does a commodity in "oversupply" achieve historic highs in price?

F* says:

Remember SILVER back in the Early Eighties???

Manipulation, my friend, can allow any commodity to go through the roof ( or in gold's case, to fall through the floor ) .



(Tue May 26 1998 16:46 - ID#242325)
wrong to be long
Looks like OLDMAN was right to be short gold but wrong to be long spoos.

Let me congratulate those KITCO seers -- Glenn, RJ, Disney, and APH --who saw this gold drop coming way in advance. I had enough sense to greatly reduce my long position, but not enough sense to get out entirely or go short.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:46 - ID#347235)
ALL of our Battleships, Missouri,Wisconsin,Iowa and New Jersey have been decommisioned! Maybe you were on a cruiser? They look similar but are only about 1/2 the size and firpower. Shalom.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:46 - ID#258142)
Dow/Gold correlation
is still positive - both have heavy losses today. Take a look here

(Tue May 26 1998 16:47 - ID#413195)
in sack-o-tomatoes
LGB: Call me all the names you want. The fact is that Loral *is* under criminal investigation and the Pentagon has reportedly concluded that Loral "helped Chinese missile technologies and harmed American security."

Bury your head in the sand if you want, LGB: these press reports are not just the work of the VRWC. The mainstream media is picking up on the story and running with it, as I'm sure you are well-aware.

Lastly, you make it sound as if you were Bernie's right-hand man on the Chinese satellite contract. I sincerely hope for your sake that you were not -- because, yes, I still do like you. Even if you can't take a joke.

And now I'll say no more about this off-topic waste of bandwidth, on Kitco's dime.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:49 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 30.35 The 50 day moving average is 29.74

(Tue May 26 1998 16:54 - ID#233199)
As an economist, could you tell me what you expect of Eurobonds and how much, when, and if they wll start to be a world class draw of capital?

Are they making an impact now?
What should we watch for?
Could Euro's start to look like a safe haven Europeans?
Given the existance of the Euro is there some MINIMUM percentage a PRUDENT european manager might feel compeled to allocate to Euro's?

Forgive the ignorant questions, but if they weren't ignorant questions - I wouldn't be asking them. Please feel free to answer the questions I should have asked. Or not.


(Tue May 26 1998 16:58 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .259 The 50 day moving average is .272. My database contains 31 occasions when the XAU closed in the 76.XX range. The closing today is ranked 26th. Those 31 occasions when the XAU closed in this range produced a XAU/Spot ratio reading below .230 sixteen times.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:59 - ID#270247)
Retired Soldier
Orca probably did see the Missouri. They are taking her from up North either to Pearl Harbor or somewhere in California. I think they are turning it into a museum or something but I'm not sure. The reason I know is because they had it parked in Astoria at the mouth of the Columbia all weekend to get the barnacles off the bottom.

I didn't go see it, but I saw the New Jersey when they brought it up for Rose Festival right before they decommissioned her. Those big ships are absolutely THE most impressive piece of firepower I have ever seen. A nuclear warhead may do more damage, but it sure isn't as cool looking.

(Tue May 26 1998 16:59 - ID#269409)
@ Ron

(Tue May 26 1998 17:00 - ID#286230)
Gold Drops $3.50
and nobody wants to talk about it. Not even a good conspiracy yarn. I want to thank Mooney for his buying in phases strategy that he presented some 18 or so months ago for the buying of junior mines. It definitely will reduce profit but it certainly avoids getting fully invested in a trap.

(Tue May 26 1998 17:04 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 57.68

(Tue May 26 1998 17:07 - ID#342315)
Silverbaron re your 14:23
Thanx. I have to agree with your approach, but I'm not at all adept at rearranging the screen perspective either. Maybe one of the accomplished programmers here can help ???

(Tue May 26 1998 17:08 - ID#347235)
I forgot they moved it you may be right. I think they should keep at least one of those BBs ( Bad Boys ) ready at all times. I was 12 miles from the impact zone in Viet Nam when the New Jersey dumped a load on ol'
Victor Charlie. Even that far away it is awe inspiring! The Mo was even better with the weapons upgrades.

(Tue May 26 1998 17:10 - ID#368244)
@ Studio
Hello my friend ! Just stopped in , to see what a condition, Kitco was in.

(Tue May 26 1998 17:12 - ID#242325)
Selby: June gold fell $4.40 today and is now down another 60 cents on access. No conspiracy, just the allmighty buck and a final tranche of EMU related selling.

(Tue May 26 1998 17:16 - ID#153102)
POG is down today because the Demoncratic Socialists have begin dishoarding from guilt. Gold is selfish. No self-respecting socialist should get near it and no self-respecting socialist government would allow its extraction.

Have the CB's lost control of POG ? Will the Demoncratic Socialists make it disappear from public view by going through the floor instead of through the roof as goldbugs supposed ? Will there soon be nothing in the world of any currency value except $US greenback ? Stay tuned for further developments.

(Tue May 26 1998 17:16 - ID#242325)
Vronsky: today's action ought to finally convince you that Asian problems are extremely bearish for gold at this stage. Bullish later perhaps, but bearish today.

(Tue May 26 1998 17:18 - ID#340302)
@JTF...your comments are of interest re: GOLD...
...most notably the one admonishing me that, if I had only listened to RJ, Oldman, APH, Cyclist, "think how much more money you would have made."

You know, JTF, ultimately you must listen to common sense and to your own heart. Do not worship false idols.

There are many ways to make tons of money in this world...but we reject those ways because either they make no sense or they go against our heart and gut instinct.

I could be making scads of money in pornography...but I said no.

I could be making scads of money running a national TV event on behalf of certain corrupt business interests...but I said no.

Etc. etc.

Today, for me to short gold would be analogous to my becoming a pornographer or accepting a bribe. It would make absolutely no sense and would go against my hearts best instincts.

Every one of the gentlemen analysts you have named have demonstrated clear fallibility on various calls. Of course, by the same token, so have I.

Their call on the general trend of gold has been correct to date...their micro-calls not quite as good. However, the day rapidly approaches where they will be wrong in calling the new gold uptrend...and I can guarantee you that they will fail to recognize the turn in time to profit from it. Inevitably, they will give back at least 50% or more of their profits from the past several years ( shorting gold plus missed profit opportunities ) as they continue to bet in favor of the downtrend that has so significantly benefitted them before. They will not readily capitulate. In that sense, they will be no different than true goldbugs ( like myself ) who failed to see the general downtrend in gold this past decade and were slow to understand the factors that allowed it to continue.

Such is the way of market psychology. We all have our predisposed patterns and it is hard to shake them off.

I have absolute certitude that, when logic and common sense return to the markets...when the mania ends...when gravity is recognized one again...when certain "powers" in government head for the exits...then gold and silver will make extremely strong upward movements.

As far as I can tell, that day will be sooner than later.



(Tue May 26 1998 17:19 - ID#231337)
A ship for battle .. not a battleship
Sorry for the misuse of the term battleship. Yes, the US Navy is moving one from the west coast but it was not in Victoria. What was here was something less than a battleship, probably a destroyer, or some form of smaller attack vessel. Not being a military buff, I probably use the terminolgy incorrectly. In any case, it was a new vessel, with very modern gear... most of it not visible. The only couple of things I recall is that it has a gun on it that uses bullets made of spent uranium, the pellets being about 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 inches in diameter and the gun being able to fire at about 500 rounds per minute. I was told they can pick a golf ball size object out at 100 miles travelling towards them at the speed of sound, and hit it! Very impressive. Lots of technology and firepower on board.

(Tue May 26 1998 17:19 - ID#36156)
All - MINE
My apologies if this is old news. I got this from another discussion group link at golden eagle. I DO NOT VOUCH FOR ITS ACCURACY.

HenryD ( Go GOLD - One Viagra, two Viagra, three... )


MINE *** F.Y.I.



MINE - Yes is going to FLY alright.. It's going to FLY away with any
traders money who is foolish enough to invest in what is probably the
biggest SCAM since BRE-X. By all means buy a few 100,000 shares of MINE and then try to figure out how you're going to get your initial investment back when the SEC halts trading in MINE.

1. ) Has had a SEC lawsuit against them for two years that has not been
resolved. 2. ) They have no money and MAJOR legal expenses 3. ) The very guy promoting the stock is the very guy filing 144s 4. ) This guy changes the thread when the truth comes out 5. ) The SEC has filed a NEW civil suit on MAy 8, 1998 naming the company 6. ) The news release are NOT from an independent survey but are samples that have been given to a lab. ( That is copycopy of BREX ) 7. ) How can you prove 6 ounces of gold that would require a MEGA trench to even try co prove that and they have no money to do that. 8. ) No reports and only statements no bore no thrench no nothing to support the claims 9. ) the trading log states somebody front loaded and is pumping the fire out of this one. 10. ) MINE is registered to issue 800,000,000 shares, that's 800 million.


The Commission announced institution of cease and desist proceedings
against Charles F. Kirby, chief trader of Spencer Edwards, Inc., Gene C.
Geiger, a registered representative at Spencer Edwards, and Alfred Peeper, a customer of Spencer Edwards. Administrative proceedings were also instituted against Spencer Edwards' president Edward H. Price. The
Commission's order alleges that Kirby, Geiger, and Peeper violated the
registration provisions of the federal securities laws by selling stock of Golden Eagle International, Inc., to the public when no registration
statement was filed or in effect. The order further alleges that Price
failed to supervise Kirby and Geiger with a view towards preventing the

A hearing will be scheduled to determine whether the allegations are true
and, if so, what sanctions, if any, are appropriate and in the public
interest, whether a cease and desist order should be issued, and whether
disgorgement and civil penalties are appropriate. ( Rels. 33-7538; 34-39971; File No. 3-9602 )


The Commission announced that on May 7, 1998 it filed a complaint in an
action involving fraud by Golden Eagle International, Inc., a Denver,
Colorado corporation, two of its officers and other defendants. The
complaint alleges that the defendants made false public statements
concerning mining properties owned or to be acquired by Golden Eagle. The
complaint also alleges that the defendants made false filings with the
Commission, that Golden Eagle was delinquent in its Commission filings, and that certain of the defendants engaged in an unregistered distribution of Golden Eagle stock.

The Commission's complaint, which seeks injunctive relief, disgorgement and penalties, names as defendants Golden Eagle, Ronald Knittle, its former president, Mary Erickson, a director, and Knittle's wife, Gregory Vernon and Timberline Consultants, Inc., public relations consultants to the company, and Paul Vernon. All the defendants reside in the Denver area. [SEC v. Golden Eagle International, Inc., et al., Civ. Action No.98-Z-1020, D. Colo.] ( LR-15733 )


(Tue May 26 1998 17:23 - ID#404246)

Posted this earlier. You probably missed it.

You like to read HST. Have you ever read any of Norman Spinrad? I think he is the science fiction version of HST.

Just curious?

Off for a while will check later.

Gusto Oro
(Tue May 26 1998 17:23 - ID#377235)
Silver Vs. Gold
Sure would have done better in gold over silver since the year's beginning...

(Tue May 26 1998 17:25 - ID#31868)
I awaken at 4:00 a.m. to brush the grass so that the little ones you LOVE do not get toe burns...Just spoke with RSavage...all is well in Louisiana!!!

(Tue May 26 1998 17:26 - ID#269409)
@ RJ...rhetorical question
What is it about Kitco, that prompts folks who have no specific knowledge about a company or industry, to suddenly become "professionals" on the subject and claim greater overnight expertise than those who have been employed in high positions in said industry for 20 + years and......

Oops, scratch that question.....what I REALLY meant to ask was.... is this Platinum's bottom or can we expect an even better "buy" opportunity ahead? Or does it depend on whether the dollar keeps beating up on the metals for the next few days? Any rumors from the pits?

(Tue May 26 1998 17:28 - ID#269409)
@ HenryD
Don't forget to mention that the article you posted bears no connection to the "Golden Beagle" site!

(Tue May 26 1998 17:33 - ID#252150)
Miro@What to do--Do the exact opposite of what the sheeple do
Buy on the way down & sell on the way up. I sold most of my ABX on the last move up & am back in buying mode as of today.

(Tue May 26 1998 17:36 - ID#340302) EUROBONDS....
...with the advent of the EURO, I believe that Eurobonds will suffer as new European safe financial instruments will be created to attract capital previously allocated to the Eurobond market.



(Tue May 26 1998 17:45 - ID#252150)
Make them sell & then make them buy--It's so easy for the big players
All they have to do is manipulate POG & indices below support levels e.g. the xau @ 80 & the sheeple not only sell, they buy put options which expire worthless 90% of the time.

Mr. Mick
(Tue May 26 1998 17:51 - ID#345321)
Tolerant1 - A big 'gulp' to ya........
Haven't had time to check in very much lately, hope I haven't missed much. Howd'ya like the DOW PLUNGE today? Was the PPT a no-show??????

(Tue May 26 1998 17:58 - ID#347235)
Tol 1,Orca
Tol 1 Whatever you do has my support.
Orca, Not to worry if you had seen a battleship there would be on doubt in your mind what it was, they are over 900 feet long, have 9 16 inch guns over 120 5 inch guns and you can see every one of them, not to mention all the new stuff. They ARE truely awesome!!!

(Tue May 26 1998 18:09 - ID#410215)
..... Is that a gun in your pocket? .....

RS -

The USS New Jersey opened up its 16 inch guns and lobbed dozens of two thousand pound shells directly over my head in Beirut, 1983. You are right, only one thing like it in the world.


(Tue May 26 1998 18:11 - ID#153102)
Do you have a working definition for the word tyranny ?

Lurker 700__A
(Tue May 26 1998 18:12 - ID#319326)
Wish you all be ready for passing over This Coming Crisis!
Yesterday I posted two:

Date: Mon May 25 1998 01:04
Lurker 700__A ( It is the Lord who hold the POG down! ) ID#319326:
PPT or Big Boys do not want POG lower than $320, but are manipulated by the spirit of God. See that in the past 20 years, POG dipped below $300 for
only few days, that proved they did not want lower POG to deflat the world economy!
But this time God forced POG below $300 for many months now, Why?
Because there is a Real Big World Crisis ahead and there are many Poor Brothers who can not afford and buy enough gold for passing over this Coming
So, God will continue push POG lower, until all poor brothers are ready.
Show your Patience and Philadelphia, pal!

Date: Mon May 25 1998 02:30
Lurker 700__A ( Preacher, PPT are vexed by spirits ) ID#319327:
Last Aug to Oct, POG is bouncing above $320 for three months. They wanted to push POG up slowly as usual as so many past No-Inflation-Ahead years.
But the Vexing Winds ( spirits ) came from SEAsia are so strong that they have no choice but push POG down below $300.
PPT or Big Boys are men not God, are forced by spirits.
If POG Gone up at that Oct. Big Financial Crisis, it will triger uncontrollable INFLATION!
So, they have to spend much reserved gold to hold POG down.
In order to teach people that gold is useless in Crisis, they push POG even below production cost! So, we survived INFLATION winds so far.
Now, comes the other Vexing Wind, the DEFLATION.
The true power of gold is when it is low.
Low POG implies No-Inflation-Ahead, then no one want to stock up commodity, then commodities price go lower. This will drag POG lower.
This is the MEANS of how God forces PPT deplete gold reserve into the hands of Poor Brothers.

Today, POG and Commodities and Dow all down sharply! I guess our Poor Brothers are almost ready and also the Big Crisis.
For the crises in past years are False Alarms and POG went up falsely, but this time POG go down against the nature laws. Why? Because God cares the poor and can do Miracle which is against our Reasonable Thoughts, the nature laws.
If this is a true Big Crisis and merciful God care about the poor, what Scenario will happen in the Time of Peak Crisis?

1. POG will be officially repriced up to $15,000/oz.Coin, ( $50 face value currently ) . But Price of Wheat will be still priced at $3/bushel ( that is a penny in gold's Term ) . Because in Rev 6:6 says ( A measure of Wheat for a penny ) .
How? Because over-production commodity, such as Wheat, suffers low price in this coming DEFLATION Crisis. But PRECIOUS metals are not over-production, and will be The Precious Money then.
See, this is another God's miracle because he do care about the poor lest they are hungry for basic food.

2. We will find out the so called High-Techs are the main causes of this Coming Crisis. Yeah, because of these High-Techs, we human are pomped up so high in the air pending for a CRASH.. AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, WHEN WE SHALL SAY,WHEREFORE DOETH THE LORD OUR GOD ALL THESE DISASTERS UNTO US? THEN SHALT THOU ANSWER, YE HAVE FORSAKEN HIM, AND SERVED STRANGE GODS, THE HIGH-TECHS, WHOM EVEN YOUR FATHERS KNEW NOT.

(Tue May 26 1998 18:15 - ID#20748)
LGB: Maybe you missed this while you were traveling

Bully Beef
(Tue May 26 1998 18:16 - ID#259261)
History is on our side we will bury you! I thought you would like that Mozel.
Who said that for Ten points.

(Tue May 26 1998 18:17 - ID#347235)
Not a gun in my pocket just ein grosse schwanz. I use shotguns for defense, UNLESS one of the iowa Class BBs are around.

(Tue May 26 1998 18:20 - ID#347235)
Bully Beef
Nikita Kruschov! Mail to me at Alaska what ever prize there is!

(Tue May 26 1998 18:20 - ID#410215)
..... Who you talkin' to, Mister? .....


Im sorry, I cant be seen talking to you.

To all the rest:

You are right, it was LBG who personally shipped secret missile technology to the Chinese. I have photographs of him putting the technology in the trunk of his car. Its LGB, no doubt about it. I could tell by the Large Gray Briefcase ( no leaky gum boots that day ) . He had a little trouble cramming all that technology into his trunk and, as I recall, he had to sit on the trunk and bounce up and down to get it to latch.

Through Zivas highly placed intelligence sources, I obtained the entire dossier on LGB. Seems he corresponds with a wacky bunch of anarchists on some gold forum. I am convinced that LGB and the Chinese have been doing all this lurking behind our backs to the great detriment of THE WORLD!

I knew I shoulda listened to ANOTHER


(Tue May 26 1998 18:21 - ID#153102)
@Bully Beef
Krushchev said it.
But it turned out the serfs of West Side Gang conducted themselves better than those of the East Side Gang. So, they all get a good conduct medal and $trillions of debt.

Bully Beef
(Tue May 26 1998 18:22 - ID#259261)
Is Lurker 700 another?

(Tue May 26 1998 18:24 - ID#255151)

The grounds crew at Giant Stadium to Jimmy Hoffa.

Bully Beef
(Tue May 26 1998 18:25 - ID#259261)
For 25 points did he bang his left or right shoe and was it significant?
I don't know the answer.

(Tue May 26 1998 18:25 - ID#269409)
@ RJ/All...Damn! COver blown...
How will I explian this to my Commie handlers? Looks like the Tibetan front for me now.... Meanwhile, Plat. ROSE today on Nymex? Silver to hold above $5.00? Supply / demand? Who ever heard o' such a thing?

Tuesday May 26, 3:48 pm Eastern Time

NY gold and silver end lower, PGMs higher

NEW YORK, May 26 ( Reuters ) - COMEX gold and silver futures ended sharply lower
Tuesday, pressured by a strong US dollar, but NYMEX platinum and palladium ended higher.

``In gold the funds have got short again in recent days and are getting shorter, with the strength
of the US dollar against the yen in particular weighing on the market, while the June/August
contract rollover is adding to the volumes,'' said Carlos Perez-Santalla, a COMEX floor trader
with Hudson River Futures in New York.

The US dollar climbed to its highest level since August of 1991 Tuesday, making gold more
expensive in yen terms.

COMEX June gold ended down $4.40 an ounce at $295.60, after trading a $299.70-294.90
range. Total COMEX gold volume was estimated at a high 63,000 lots.

Gold prices have been consolidating around $300 an ounce in recent weeks, after partially
recovering from an 18 year low around $277 an ounce in January this year.

Commodity funds are now net short in COMEX gold again by 17,247 lots as of May 19, a
turnaround from a net long position of 5,321 lots two weeks earlier, according to the CFTC's
Commitments of Traders data published late Friday.

In the bullion market, spot gold ended quoted $295.30/80 an ounce, compared to the London
Tuesday afternoon fix at $297.95 and the New York close Friday around $299.60/300.10.

Gold demand in India in the first quarter 1997 was reported to be continuing to rise, though
overall world gold demand was down for the quarter, according to the World Gold Council
( WGC ) in a report last week.

But gold demand is seen exceeding mine and scrap supply by around 900 tonnes again this
year, implying central bank sales or loans will again be needed to bring the market into
equilibrium, according to Salomon Smith Barney analyst Leanne Baker.

COMEX July silver ended down 15.0 cents at $5.105 an ounce, after trading down to a new
low for the year at $5.070 intraday.

Net long positions in COMEX silver held by funds fell to 16,576 lots as of May 19, down from
32,404 lots two weeks earlier, according to the CFTC data Friday.

But according to the Silver Institute's 1998 report published last week, world silver demand is
expected to rise a further 2.7 pct this year, while demand is expected to exceed supply for the
ninth year in a row. Last year the supply/demand deficit was estimated at 130 million ounces.

``On an intermediate-to-long term basis, we expect silver to hold above the $5.00 level, based
on prospects for another drawdown in world silver stocks and the substantial long position of
Mr Buffett, which is not likely to be liquidated at current price levels,'' said David Rinehimer,
an analyst with Salomon Smith Barney.

In February this year US investor Warren Buffett confirmed he had bought 129.7 million
ounces of silver, about 20 pct of annual world silver supplies, and spot silver prices rose to
nine year highs around $7.90 an ounce.

NYMEX July platinum ended up $1.00 an ounce at $380.00, while NYMEX September
palladium, now the active contract, closed up $1.05 at $310.05.

NYMEX June palladium still has open interest of 1,412 lots though, ahead of its first notice
day on June 1, compared to 2,167 lots in the September contract.

Funds are now net short by 61 lots in NYMEX palladium as of May 19, a turnaround from a
net long position of 355 contracts two weeks earlier.

But NYMEX palladium open interest has been falling steadily in recent weeks, after a series of
desposit margin hikes by the exchange which have taken the margin requirement for customers
to $45,900 per contract, more than the value of the contract, analysts noted.

Expectations that Russian supplies of platinum group metals ( PGMs ) will not resume until late
summer, after a six month hiatus, pushed spot palladium prices to all time highs at $420 an
ounce on May 18. Russian supplies about 60 pct of the world's palladium.

Meanwhile, the need to comply with US and European environmental rules that limit
hydrocarbon emissions is expected to support further growth in palladium usage in automotive
exhaust system catalysts, according to Johnson Matthey's annual review last week.

The world palladium market shifted to a supply deficit of 210,000 ounces in 1997, from
surplus of 1.7 million ounces in 1996, Johnson Matthey said

(Tue May 26 1998 18:26 - ID#153102)
@Bully Beef
It's worth thinking about that low POG means no inflation years ahead.

Bully Beef
(Tue May 26 1998 18:27 - ID#259261)
Auric ... You get full points for being a good sport.
Poor old Jimmy.He Knows fishes arse holes are watertight.

(Tue May 26 1998 18:34 - ID#347235)
He was using his right hand, logically it would be his left shoe!

(Tue May 26 1998 18:35 - ID#231337)
Indonesia and the IMF....
The following two articles compliments of Terence Corcoran writing for the Globe and Mail ( Toronto, Canada ) , highlights the IMF role.. positive and mostly negative to the goings on in Indonesia.

Agenda ducks real IMF reform

Saturday, May 23, 1998

By Terence Corcoran

WITH the political and economic crisis growing in Indonesia, the meeting of Asia-Pacific finance

ministers this weekend in Alberta becomes an appropriate occasion for the region's major powers to cast a reform-minded look at the International Monetary Fund and the other institutions milling

about the uneasy world financial system. Formally, the ministers are scheduled to do just that, with particular attention focused on an agenda -- supported by Finance Minister Paul Martin -- under the heading "strengthening the architecture of the global financial system." The reform program, however, looks more like an attempt to strengthen the bureaucratic infrastructure underlying the existing collection of doubtful institutions and expand the powers of global regulators and bureaucrats.

The basic outline of the reform agenda was approved by G7 finance ministers at a meeting in

London this month. Unfortunately, the reform plan is long on wordy calls for greater

"transparency," urgent co-operation, enhanced supervision, global codes of good practice, "sound

policy making," greater openness, increased data dissemination, effective monitoring, improved

global supervision of international agencies, etc., etc. All of this will greatly expand the reach of the IMF and other organizations. But the plan is curiously short on explanation of how any of the

reforms would help avoid a financial crisis of the type engulfing Asia today.

Even the more obvious and acknowledged failings of the current IMF-led financial agencies are

sidestepped with qualified responses. The fact that the IMF's multibillion-dollar emergency lending packages amount to bailouts of large private lenders in the United States and Europe is clearly acknowledged as a problem. By bailing out global commercial banks from their bad loans, the IMF creates a moral hazard that encourages them to risk lending money to unstable dictatorships, knowing that the IMF will bail them out.

The reform plan mostly ducks the moral hazard issue. Should taxpayers in Canada finance the

bailout of banks that lent money in Indonesia? The obvious answer is no, but the reform plan

waffles. In a section called "burden sharing by the private sector and moral hazard," the G7

ministers would only say: "It would be highly desirable to create in advance a framework for

handling debt arrears to make it clear that all exposed institutions in the private sector will bear

some costs."

Another curiosity of the reform plan is an attempt to include labour and environmental standards as part of an expanded IMF focus. The ministers want the IMF to work with the International Labour Organization to promote "core labour standards" and with the "competent international institutions to promote sound environmental standards." Much as everybody would like to boost living standards in Indonesia and elsewhere to North American levels, imposing labour standards ( a euphemism for pro-union legislation ) on developing nations is hardly the way to do it.

Mr. Martin and other finance ministers are appropriately concerned about the growing army of

unemployed and the drastically reduced growth prospects in Indonesia and other countries caught

up in the Asian financial crisis. Much of the escalating hardship, however, can be laid at the door of the IMF and the approach taken by the major powers. By allowing and even encouraging a major currency crisis in the region, the current global policy makers caused a massive flight of capital.The result was inflation, plunging growth, mass unemployment and widespread economic suffering.

There appears to be nothing in the reform agenda under discussion this weekend that acknowledges the chain of cause and effect between IMF-style interventions and bailouts and massive economic dislocation. Building up a major expansion of global regulators may keep everybody busy -- until the next crisis. What the discussion should be focusing on is how to restore stability to the currencies of the Asian nations now, and how to avoid currency collapses in the future. It's a task that looks all the more difficult today than it did six months ago.

U.S. a culprit in Indonesia crisis

Tuesday, May 26, 1998

By Terence Corcoran

PAUL Martin and the finance ministers of 18 other Asia-Pacific nations wrapped up their weekend

meeting in the Alberta resort village of Kananaskis on Sunday with a sweeping ministerial statement

that dodged most of the economic bullets. Emerging with an especially clean record was the

International Monetary Fund. In a section of the statement titled "Causes of the Financial Instability

in Asia," the IMF rated not one reference, even though the fund has played a serious

trouble-making role as Asian currencies collapsed and the region was plunged into recession.

Also glossed over is the deteriorating political and economic situation in Indonesia. The ministers

noted the rising levels of unemployment throughout Asia and the impact on the poor, especially

women and children. "In Indonesia," the statement said, "there is even evidence of food shortages

and inadequate medical supplies." No mention, however, of 500 deaths, looting, rioting,

prerevolutionary fever, and grave risk to the Chinese business class. And there was no reference to

the two major consequences of IMF-imposed economic medicine: a currency devalued by 80 per

cent and an inflation rate forecast to hit 45 per cent this year on the heals of 35 per cent last year.

No doubt the deposing of a dictator is stimulating sport, especially if you're thousands of kilometres

away, CNN reception is good and the golf is fine. But the economic upheaval in Indonesia has done

more than force out a dictator. The lives of 200 million people have been financially ruined, the risk

of violent revolution has increased, and the economic situation is even more precarious. Is this

brinkmanship a justifiable purpose of international economic policy making?

One of the few people with inside knowledge of Indonesia's economic collapse who's also willing to

talk about it is Steve Hanke, economics professor at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore,

vice-chairman of Friedberg Mercantile Group's U.S. subsidiary, and, briefly, an adviser to former

Indonesian president Suharto. In an interview from Paris, Mr. Hanke laid the blame for riots,

violence and the extreme economic hardship at the door of the IMF and the major economic

powers -- especially the United States -- that dominate the international agency. "The IMF was told

what to do, and they did it. Foreign policy is run in the United States by Secretary [Robert] Rubin

in Treasury. . . . It's the U.S. operating in an imperialistic way as [it] did in the last part of the 19th


Mr. Hanke, an expert in currency boards, was called in by Suharto at the end of January to attempt

to set up an Indonesian currency board that would halt the rupiah's fall, and set the stage for

reform. At that time, the IMF had already imposed two reform programs that had created nothing

but more turmoil and more panic. The first program in November of last year called for bank

reorganizations, trade liberalization and tax increases. Through tight money and a flexible exchange

rate, the IMF also envisaged "stabilizing the rupiah."

Rather than save it, the program caused the currency to crash. "It just set off a huge financial panic,

and the capital flight started occurring big time," Mr. Hanke said. Another reform package was

assembled in early January by the IMF with backing of the United States and other members of the

Group of Seven nations. Infrastructure projects were cancelled. More banks were to be closed.

Monopolies ended. But the package "had nothing to address the immediate problem, which was a

financial panic and impending currency crisis. So when the market saw that agreement, literally the

day it was signed, the rupiah started heading south," Mr. Hanke said.

By mid-January, the rupiah, which the IMF kept saying it wanted to stabilize, had been devalued by

70 per cent. Mr. Hanke said Suharto called in the last week in January. "He knew he had to

stabilize the currency, and he knew he'd get blown out of the there -- we actually talked about this

-- if he couldn't."

The Hanke plan, which included many of the IMF reforms but with a currency board added on, was

designed to reverse the financial panic, draw capital back into Indonesia, and restore some of the

purchasing power of the people of Indonesia. But the IMF and the United States resisted the

currency board reform. "The pressure was just too much, and Suharto caved."

The objective of the currency board was to establish the value of the rupiah against the U.S. dollar

by replacing the central bank with a board that would maintain reserves of dollars equal to 100 per

cent of the rupiah in circulation. Similar boards exist in Argentina and Hong Kong, two nations that

have avoided currency panics over the past few years. "My objective was to stabilize the currency,

because if you didn't . . . I concluded that there would be riots and a lot of blood on the streets."

Ignoring this possibility, on April 10 the IMF announced another plan that included what it called "a

strong monetary policy to ensure stabilization of the rupiah." That was followed by fuel price

increases, and another major currency retreat. Thus, after months of IMF ministrations, Indonesia

today is in worse shape than it was in January, and, until the currency crisis is addressed, the

country will remain a political and economic shambles.

(Tue May 26 1998 18:35 - ID#287193)
@ LOOK ..and look again.. --happy days are..

here again!
Now--who made money today??

give me a few more!

(Tue May 26 1998 18:35 - ID#34857)
All - RE: My 17:19
The article I posted bears no connection [that I know of] to the golden eagle site.

My thanks to LGB for his sound advice on how to be considerate of innocent sources.


Date: Tue May 26 1998 17:28
LGB ( @ HenryD ) ID#269409:
Don't forget to mention that the article you posted bears no connection to the "Golden Beagle" site!

Bully Beef
(Tue May 26 1998 18:35 - ID#259261)
I think Gold is going to rebound .
This is just a glitch in the system. We are in the death throws of a bull. You can hear the rasping in it's throat. The breaths are getting lighter and lighter. Good Bye Bull . I'll see you in you next life. Hello little gold bull. Get on your feet and run!

(Tue May 26 1998 18:38 - ID#153102)
You see noone has a working definition of money.
Noone has a working definition of tyranny, because noone knows what law is any more.
It was tyranny to outlaw gold as money when the Constitution requires it.
It was tyranny to require a license and payment of tribute to drive on the highway.
It was tyranny to require a registration of a car and take the owner's proof of ownership to issue it.
It was tyranny to put debt on the land so the generations must pay ground rent like serfs of yore.
It was tyranny to impose martial law on the States.
It was tyranny to falsify the Constitution by excluding the 13th Amendment of 1819 after 1860.
I could go on at length.

But, everyone is comfortable with tyranny now. Don't rock the boat is the byword.

So, maybe just floating away is the better part of valor now.

(Tue May 26 1998 18:40 - ID#288295)
A Neat Charting site
Here's a website I just turned up while looking for something else - has lots of charts - some interesting ones on XAU and Gold/Silver.

(Tue May 26 1998 18:42 - ID#373284)
Redistributed, cast, NOT caste, are the words...are there any TEARS and whose knee was that...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....mozel my friend, truly you are my friend...tyranny is anything that infringes on the next indivduals God given right to self respect...even if they KNOW no God. Most respectfully submitted...Sir...

(Tue May 26 1998 18:44 - ID#403335)
RJ-Gold Below $295
You got your $295, good call! What now, cover or stay short?

(Tue May 26 1998 18:47 - ID#153102)
@Should taxpayers in Canada finance the
You see noone has a working definition of money.
Noone has a working definition of tyranny, because noone knows what law is any more.
It was tyranny to outlaw gold as money when the Constitution requires it.
It was tyranny to require a license and payment of tribute to drive on the highway.
It was tyranny to require a registration of a car and take the owner's proof of ownership to issue it.
"Should taxpayers in Canada finance the bailout of banks that lent money in Indonesia?"

Personally, I think it would be the sharing, caring thing to do. I don't know how Candaians will be able to look themselves in the mirror if they don't.

Think of Jin, Canadians. Do the right thing.

(Tue May 26 1998 18:48 - ID#373284)
mozel - Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
You actually spelled valor properly in America, there is much good blood in the missing U --- Please, do not forget that...

(Tue May 26 1998 18:51 - ID#288295)
Listing of S&P Gold Mining Stocks
Here are the gold mining stocks in the S&P500, according to the current web directory: Barrick Gold, Battle Mountain Gold, Homestake, Newmont Mining, Placer Dome. ... Note that Homestake is also in the S&P100. I mention these only as a possible warning .... a major selloff in S&P Index funds is likely to carry them down, and all these companies are major components of the XAU......Beware...Jeil - where are you? I would really like to see what your current model looks like - today's break down out of a triangle formation in the major U.S. indices looks VERY bearish to me.

(Tue May 26 1998 18:55 - ID#269409)
@ HepCat in drag
2-8-9 ..... 2-8-9 .......2-8-9 ......

(Tue May 26 1998 18:56 - ID#269409)
@ Limericks
The Goose drank wine
The monkey chewed tobacco
on the StreetCar line.....

(Tue May 26 1998 18:58 - ID#153102)
Here's a funny thing.
A Court of Record is not a "Court of Record". Remember that.

What do you think will happen if people ever realize that all the Deeds recorded in the "Court of Record" are sham ? And that the true owner of the property is the party of interest for whom the State collects ground-rent ? ( The Bank ) .

Mr. Mick
(Tue May 26 1998 19:05 - ID#345321)
Tolerant1 - DOW will lose 300 points this week............
you heard it here first.

(Tue May 26 1998 19:05 - ID#153102)
@Should taxpayers in Canada finance
"Should taxpayers in Canada finance the bailout of banks that lent money
in Indonesia?"
Personally, I think it would be the sharing, caring thing to do. I don't
know how Candaians will be able to look themselves in the mirror if they
Think of Jin, Canadians. Do the right thing.

(Tue May 26 1998 19:15 - ID#20748)
Loral is under "criminal investigation"

Bully Beef
(Tue May 26 1998 19:15 - ID#259282)
Canadian Banks are just as stupid with my money as American Banks are with yours
I admit it is going to hurt to bail out Asia. But whether you and I agree on helping them is not the point. It is in our financial institutions best interest that they are bailed out no matter the cost to the American and Canadian and Japanese taxpayer. Welcome to globalization. Corporations and banks have no country and no allegiance. Your labour is the same as anybodies only your is a little too expensive right now. Corporations don't give a fiddler's gosh darn about you or me or apple pie. Only money. You want a windmill to tear down. Get em tiger. Corporation are free . They own the best polititians money can buy.

Bully Beef
(Tue May 26 1998 19:17 - ID#259282)
Mozel... I do think you are baiting me.
Ha! Won't bite! I'm on an upswing and...darn you ...aaaaaaahhhhh!

(Tue May 26 1998 19:17 - ID#247273)
"The market continues its decline, pressured by the continued sinking of the price of gold, which is continually depressing the investment world that would otherwise be buoyant with exuberance. Obviously, gold must be taken out of the S&P and any other financial metrics used to gauge the performance and predict the future of the market. Immediate action must be taken to eliminate the contrived and manipulated gold price that is imposing inordinate downward pressure on an otherwise healthy market.


(Tue May 26 1998 19:19 - ID#20748)
LGB:"Criminal investigations" can be ignored only by FOBs

(Tue May 26 1998 19:21 - ID#227290)
Market Comments
To all:

I have been traveling to New York today and cannot download my charts. I didn't get a closing price on the XAU but I am assuming that it broke through its uptrend line the way that gold did.
No matter for now. It takes at least two closes below or above a trend line to confirm the move. So tonight and tomorrow will tell us a lot.
If the crack in the XAU is confirmed, the next support level is around the 70 level.
The seniors took a heavy pounding today. So did some of the juniors. The Vancouver Stock Exchange Index lost 6 points to close at 603, a new low for the year. One pleasant surprise was that Arizona Star fell only C$.02 and the ask price is higher than yesterday's close. Normally this stock is very sensitive to the POG.
I have been bullish and long. The other two stocks I bought to take advantage of higher metals prices, Bema and PanAm Silver, both lost ground today.

If I can borrow from the system of two other guys, APH and Cyclist, I would like to.
APH is looking for a bott

(Tue May 26 1998 19:22 - ID#39857)
Update for antipodians.
Sydney - Wednesday - May 27: Gold and silver futures fell
sharply in New York as the US dollar climbed against the yen, but
platinum and palladium ended with minimal gains.
June gold slumped $4.40 to $295.60 oz, July silver lost 15c to
$5.105 oz, July platinum rose $1 to $379.70 oz and June palladium eked
out 5c to $350.05 oz.
Estimated total volumes were 63,000 for gold, 16,000 for silver
and 1,417 for platinum.
Bridge News reports that one of the main reasons for the US
dollar's strength was talk that US Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin would
accept the dollar strengthening to a rate of around 150 accept the dollar strengthening to a rate of around 150 yen to the
dollar. Rubin distanced himself from the report, but not before the
dollar reached an eight-year high against the yen.
June gold touched a two-month low of $294.90, although some of
the selling was attributed to technicals as strong trade selling just
above support at $297.50 and at $295.90 uncovered stops.
Silver also saw stops triggered as July slid to a six-month low
of $5.07, but many analysts said the metal is continuing its recent
weakness, and will need some fresh news to shake off its negative
In London the PM gold fix was set at $297.95 and the metal was
changing hands at $297.75 in late dealings. Silver ceased trading at
$5.21 while platinum ended the day at $378.

Aragorn III
(Tue May 26 1998 19:25 - ID#212323)
Good to be back home... (and note to Mozel)
I had a chance to learn a few things and muse on a few things and will share them with the family when I get the ideas fully baked...I don't have bread just yet. There is no possible way I can scan through a week-plus backlog of Kitco material; the group is too prolific to let more than a day or two slide by.

Mozel...I did some spotty reviews of the Kitco archive and saw your potato chip post. Good enough to eat. I also enjoyed your sign-off on a following post--"Got Freedom?" Excellent!

got gold?

(Tue May 26 1998 19:30 - ID#229277)
farfel: slow v.s rapid deflation is an interesting question
Which is more likely? What can be done by government to avoid it? Which measures will be effective?

This is a key issue because you are correct: in one case gold is a good hedge and in another it is not. History suggests that once in a deflationary cycle, there's little governments can do to stop it. I may be wrong about this, but I've read that from 1930 to 1934 the Fed pumped out cash and lowered interest rates, but to no avail. A slow, grinding deflation happened anyway. But what would precipitate a rapid deflation versus a slow, torturous one? Massive and widespread defaults?

It's also my understanding that in a pince the Fed can convert your short term Treasury debt into long term debt. That means that while Treasuries are safe, they are not necessarily liquid. Cash is of course as liquid as you can get, and with the prices of things going down, cash has a good "return."

Thanks for your thoughts.


(Tue May 26 1998 19:35 - ID#284255)
Email chatter
Getting interrrrestinggg A word to the wise on Y2K. If you are in America and your plans do not include an assessment of government actions, you are betting hard against history. Every emergency in the history of this nation has been used by the Executive to increase federal power. Every such power grab has been ratified with a Bill of indemnity by Congress. If you think Y2K is going to occasion an emergency, then you must also calculate the overwhelming probability that the federal government will use that emergency for its own purposes. What FEMA will do in Y2K is odds on much more important to plan for than civil disturbance.

In America 1. Every financial asset is a derivative of the fiat greenback. 2. A genuine public-private partnership has got to involve financial assets.

At some point in the next two years every financial asset in the world is going to be more a creature of law and politics than of economics.

(Tue May 26 1998 19:39 - ID#288295)
Be careful what you wish for....It would be a great idea if gold mining stocks weren't in the S&P 500, but they are. If they decide to take them out, you WILL see a mining stock crash as never before. Think of all those index funds out there, all selling the big gold mining stocks at once - not a pretty sight to think about.

Good ol' boy
(Tue May 26 1998 19:39 - ID#26362)
Need info
Am trying to look up a gold company named, I belive, Monarch Resources which has interests in Mexico and other Latin American countries, but am drawing blanks. I believe it was started by former Goldfields emplyees and is backed by a German industrialist. Ring any bells, thanks all.

(Tue May 26 1998 19:42 - ID#247273)
New Investment
NEtscape breaks even; the Federal Govt ( US ) makes a profit. The US Govt will shortly present an IPO; Get in line and get the shares if you can. The Government says they will NOT issue a dividend ( tax cut ) just yet, but just wait, things are looking up for next FY. Haven't figured out the P/E yet on $39B, but it is probably huge ( highly speculative, risky ) . But be sure to get a complete prospectus from your broker, and to fully evaluate your financial position and risk before investing. Market conditions can result in losses and are dependent on many factors......


(Tue May 26 1998 19:45 - ID#342315)
Monkey/streetcar joke
Here's one, it's old so maybe you know it. A monkey was crossing the street where car tracks run. A streetcar cut off a piece of his tail. When he looked around to see what happened, another streetcar knocked off his head. The moral- don't loose your head over a little piece of tail ( or a win or loss in the market )

(Tue May 26 1998 19:47 - ID#373284)
Mr. Mick - forever lit is the candle that represents my eternal, thoughts, for you
and life is enriched knowing that air that I breathed inflates your lungs...IT TRULY IS A Privilege...Namaste'

(Tue May 26 1998 19:47 - ID#269409)
@ NJ.. Did Asian movie industry authorize the GodZiRRA remake?
Since you posted the same thing 3 times, let me explain how it works eh?

The satellite launches ( for a non domestic European customer I might add ) were authorized and legal. The "investiigation" was initiated because certain Government Pin Heads were pissed that the multi company comittee who reviewed the CHinese Failure Analysis, didn't get the proper signature by said pinheads before some Un Govt.savvy soul allowed the review report to be forwarded to the Chinese.

When a pin headed Government beaurocrat, no matter the Govt. agency they are from, decides that they're going to justify their worthless drain on the public dole, just how do you think they go about it?

Try telling the IRS next time their "investigating" you, that they're in the wrong, and see whether that ends it then and there eh?

Try telling the poor fools who have to deal with the Environmental agencies until their businesses are bankrupted because some Know Nothing beaurocrat has decided that a $50,000 per year business ought to do a $5 million dollar "clean up" of their property.... because some filling station operated there 40 years ago.

"Investigation?" Let's see where it leads eh? It'll come to nought. This is a given. If Loral ends up penalized or liable for criminal wrongdoing after this particular "investigation", I'll eat Chinese food exclusively for a year.

Sorry, but in this case, "investgation" really means "Pin Headed Govt. Employee, justifying his salary, and peevish that he wasn't properly in the loop".

I deal with them all the time on the Nasa contracts, like "GOES" weather satellite. If ever there was an ignorant, sub-human group, it's the Govt. agency folks we deal with. They're hiring criterea requires IQ below 80, and stubborn retransagence in all things. It's right on the "Equal Opportunity" application they fill out.

(Tue May 26 1998 19:52 - ID#341234)
Mighty DOW
Notice how the mighty DOW fell below 9000 today? Are people starting to figure out that they are running out of bigger suckers? The cycle will turn back in gold's favor eventually. Possibly end of '98 or early '99. Be patient and stop looking at the hourly price ( unless you are a short term trader ) .

(Tue May 26 1998 19:52 - ID#57232)
False Idols? Are perpetual gold bulls worshipping false Idols?
Farfel - I must admit that is pretty good. You could argue that the person I know who watched his gold go up from 1970 to 1980, and then watched it go down for the last 17 years was worshiping a false Idol. Ond feature of Idol worship is that no matter what happens you cannot let go. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

That is a problem with gold bugs -- they see only the up, and not the down -- even after nearly 20 years. It took me a while to figure out that we were in a two year gold bear -- I guess I was Idol worshipping too much. Out of curiousity, how much money did you lose during our devastating gold bear?

For your information, I am still long gold stocks, but the pressure is rising to sell -- I hope Preacher is right that we are bottoming. By the way, I forgot to add Preacher to the list of experts that I respectfully follow -- one primary criteria I use to determine an expert in gold is that they are not perpetually long.

(Tue May 26 1998 19:52 - ID#288295)
Goold 'ol boy @ Monarch Resources
Try this -

(Tue May 26 1998 19:53 - ID#190411)
I'm Dumb 'Cause I Bought More.

Psst, there's a short squeeze imminent. When the POG ends in the pits, then you know that it has taken place.

(Tue May 26 1998 19:53 - ID#269409)
@ NJ.... I feel Basslike
No not "bastard like" BASS Like! I gotta hand it to ya, though it took three casts of that lure, you did finally get me to rise to the bait! aren't by any chance a Govt. employee are you?? ( hehe )

(Tue May 26 1998 19:54 - ID#247273)
Sorry for the Tongue in Cheek, but what else can alleviate the pain of the downward gold trend? Wishing won't do it. Hoping hasn't done it. Sarcasm is what is left..
and hope springs eternal...

(Tue May 26 1998 19:55 - ID#287193)
@Silverbaron and Good ol' boy
Nice chart site THX! Do you know this one? I bet you do:

Good ol'boy:
Try this one MRE.TSE

(Tue May 26 1998 19:56 - ID#413109)
Hate to be negative
It looks like the near term prospects for the PMs are not all that
good, except of course for the shorts, as the stochastics for currencies
like this one make me believe a few more down days are in store.

(Tue May 26 1998 19:56 - ID#39857)
Soeharto news!
He has syphoned 65 billion $US from the people of Indonesia.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:00 - ID#190411)
I truly resent your humorous comments.
Don't you realise that this is serious stuff?
Your droll comment on our little beaten up commodity should get you a ten year sentence on a financial show.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:01 - ID#287193)
Good ol'boy
try this:

(Tue May 26 1998 20:03 - ID#57232)
Satellite encrypation, missle technology -- Now in Chinese hands?
LGB: You know I respect your judgement when your posts are carefully thought out, so you know I respect the person behind them. So does RJ. So please consider this carefully.

You may be the most honest, forthright, upstanding honor-bound American satellite technology expert, but it is pretty clear some ethical boundaries have been breached with this satellite business, and criminal investigations will continue, regardless who was actually at fault. You are probably right that your company had been given full authority by a high-level somebody in the US government. But -- when the chips are down, a fall guy ( or fall guys ) will be identified so that they can be punished, regardless of who was told what. The people that are punished are usually not the highest level guys that made the bad decisions, though they may have to resign. The ones that usually need to worry are 'middle level' troops. '

Please watch yourself -- we don't want you to be one of the 'fall guys'

(Tue May 26 1998 20:03 - ID#20748)
LGB: Here is some more news on Loral

(Tue May 26 1998 20:04 - ID#210235)
I'm dumb too, cause I not only bought more, I'm going to keep doing so as long as gold's cheap. But then, I'm so dumb I didn't even know we were a bunch of anarchists. Does that mean we get to wear cool clothes and nose rings? and ride motorcycles and cut in line at the ATM?

(Tue May 26 1998 20:05 - ID#252391)
XAU in the 70s
It is no great surpirse that XAU broke down into the 70's ( down a cool 5% today ) or that Gold fell to 296. The writing was on the wall on Frdiay. What is interesting is that PL and PT had a relativiely strong day and slver didn't collapse and break through $5. Oil was about unchanged also if I got the price correct. Some study of the committment of trades is in order for both gold and silver.

Though the technical picture in the XAU doesn't look to good and the CRB was off another 1 percent to a new multi year low the fundlementals of silver and PD are so complelling it hard to be out of these markets even though the technicals, the dollar and the bonds say lower. I'm not comfortable out of the metals or precious metal mining companies with the
funds being short - think that could change real quick.

For now out of the XAU looking for a spike down tomorrow to do a little bottom picking., especially in silver stocks.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:07 - ID#288295)

Haven't seen this site before....where's our golden baby - hiding in basic materials, or is it just that they NEVER rotate into gold?? ( ;^ ) )

(Tue May 26 1998 20:11 - ID#288369) ol' fishin' pard................
Bottom fishin' on Rangy this p.m.....31/ fills, the boat next to me caught a lunkers though. I'll try nightcrawlers tomorrow...that'll get 'em! Maybe, a little "shock" might fill the boat, eh?

Studio now offers a new ratio to the forum!!!! The US$/gold oz. RATIO! I'll be offering this critical datum daily ( when requested ) ...Today's Ratio......296. Don't ask me how I do it.........

(Tue May 26 1998 20:14 - ID#190411)
Always my pleasure to read yours.
I have fourteen motorcycles already, perhaps it will be cool to ride old British and Italian junk someday.
I don't have an ATM card; and I don't tolerate bad manners in my children. No nose rings, alas , not even ones of gold, I am doomed to the uncool.
I might have a less expensive source for your PM. I'm .

(Tue May 26 1998 20:15 - ID#57232)
Your 20:03
NJ: Interesting post -- who needs spies when you can get politicians to give you everything you could ever ask for, for a few political contributions? When the political climate is such that the need for the almighty vote blinds the politician to inadvertent delivery of secret encryptation technology, or missle guidance technology, National Security is a lost cause.

All I can hope for is that the massive security leaks are plugged, the clipper chips have been destroyed, and my associates ( of many years ago ) are burning the midnight oil making all of the lost technology obsolete. One of my friends said this happens frequently enough when the adversaries use spies. Haven't asked him recently just how much work must now be done when the secrets are given away freely. What a fiasco.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:16 - ID#210114)
John disney: Rudeness once again.
Thanx for your insulting comments. My mathematical abilities are fine thank you.
(Tue May 26 1998 20:17 - ID#434108)
as UK goes; so goes the U.S.
UK corporate profitability "grinds to a halt"

(Tue May 26 1998 20:18 - ID#210114)
Yes I agree with your comments about Johnson. He funded the Vietnam war by printing money blowing out inflation and the trade deficit.

However, when I speak of Reagan I am referring to the Chicago school of economics which he and Thatcher tied themselves to. The end of civilisation as we know it.

Live Long and Prosper.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:21 - ID#254201)
Trade Update from 5/23 10:52
June S&P broke down today and the stops were hit with a 5-point loss. It still appears to be in wave 4 but the upside projections will drop. Ascani's 16 day cycle calls for a low today. The 5-hour rsi is down to 5 %. We'll have to wait and see what kind of bounce we get.

If you are following the silver trade you should be long from under 5.10. If it looks like it's going to close under 5.00 exit the trade. The weak gold market may drag it down. Last week I was long from 5.10 covered at .530 went short at 5.32 covered and went long today at 5.10.

Gold on a weekly chart has done a near perfect 4-wave decline with in a channel. When a 3rd wave is extended the 5th wave will usually end up between .618 and 1.00 the length of wave 1. That projects the wave 5 bottom as best case 280 worst case 257.

XAU has stared its 5th wave down. Same type of pattern as gold. 5th wave projection best case 65 worst case 50. The good news is the XAU will likely double in value in 12 -18 months from the bottom.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:21 - ID#210114)
Down down down!!
Gold now below 100 day MA. Time will tell how low it will go, though I imagine that Bill Buckler will argue that it is too early to call the death of the bull. I think he's waiting for a weekly finish below $US300.

Silver; my condolences to those who bought at US$ 7.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:24 - ID#368244)
@ Studio
Been fishin with my 14 year old son on our houseboat all weekend. Lost 2 solid gold sinkers , a catfish came up and spit em on deck, guess the fish don't have a use for gold either.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:24 - ID#269409)
@ JTF / NJ
Thanks JTF, appreciate the sentiments. In this case though, I truly believe there will be no "fall guy" as there is nothing to "fall" for.

NJ.... I've already read that article. It has the same glaring error you'll see in all such articles. Namely this type of statement ...

"Here's where it gets sticky: after Chung passed illegal money to the D.N.C., Clinton approved the transfer of commercial satellite-launch technology to China--technology that might have helped China improve the accuracy of its long-range ballistic missiles that threaten the U.S."

OK, now here's the problem with the above. It blatantly states that a "transfer of satellite-launch technology to China" ocurred. We at Loral don't even posess such technology, nor do we have access to it! We build satellites, NOT launch vehicles. Talk to Boeing or McDonnel Douglas if you want to talk transfer of "Satellite Launch Technology".

What we transferred to the Chinese by way of high tech. info was this....NOTHING, NADA, ZERO, ZILCH, ZIP, TOHU & BOHU. What we DID give them was a quasi "blessing" report, which stated that their failure analysis which blamed launch failure on a faulty solder joint, was likely to be correct. Big nuclear missile targeting technology tranfer eh?

Notice these articles you cite, always skip the details of what was "transferred"...and for a very good reason. The authors are either completely ignorant and havn't done their homework ( since ALL the documentation on this has been public record from day one ) ...or worse, they are PURPOSELY obfuscating on this point in order to make their sensation grabbing headline story work better.

This is an OLD story....the only thing that makes it newsworthy now is the DNC / Chung, campaign finance money issue. Now THERE is an issue where I believe smoke indicates fire, yes?

However, in the matter of technology transfer, it simply didn't happen , as I've indicated, I know this directly as a fact, not secondhand. Furthermore, as even your own faulty posted artcile explains, Loral and other satellite manufacturers have routinely been alloweed to launch in China every time they've requested it, some 20 times, including during teh Bush administration.

Is Bernie a shameless influence peddler like all company CEO's? Yep. Did he give a pile o' dough to Clinton because he's a staunch democrap? Yep. Does this mean Loral "transferred satellite launching technology..etc." tp China? Well if you look at the FACTS of what was "transferred", the assertion is totally preposterous.

I despise that slimy weasel Clinton. I don;t like Bernie giving him money. I'd like to see our laucnhes happen domestically. Nonetheless, the allegations of technology transfer, are completely bogus, and being made by folks who are in complete ignorance of the facts.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:24 - ID#411112)
Tell me I'am wrong.....Chinese are about to put the President of THE UNITED STATES on display in the
blood stained ground of the pro-democracy movement.......the Chinese are very symbol driven,the PRC have vilified the USA for so long to its people,now to prove there point,what better symbol to show the weakness of the WORLDS SUPERPOWER by putting the defender of freedom right at the spot where the statue of Liberty stood.......this makes me sick......

(Tue May 26 1998 20:24 - ID#288295)
You would think we would be smart enough to put some "Mission Impossible" self destruction systems in all of this military-linked technology, or at the very least, something that destructs on command so they couldn't use it against us. Or is this being too simplistic?

(Tue May 26 1998 20:25 - ID#26793)
Brazil down nearly 6% today; no one knows why. (typical of a top!)

(Tue May 26 1998 20:27 - ID#284255)
Crash alert still on - as per last weeks forcast.
To my mind there is a correlation between the POG and the markets staying afloat.

Could this downdraft in the POG be forcasting the coming crash?

Will this be the crash or will the dippies be there waiting?

Gold lower = Dow lower.

After the crash gold will begin to shine.

Till then we know what to expect?

Swing chart starting to make a definative break for new lows.
UGLY is how I would describe it.

The Hatt
(Tue May 26 1998 20:28 - ID#294232)
To My Aussie Friends!
As you watch your markets collapse to mirror your currency take a minute and write your government a thankyou note for selling you out! To those posters who think gold is dead, be careful as that heat you feel is the warming up of paper. Would much rather be long gold than long s&p.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:30 - ID#57232)
Thoughts about the China/encryptation/missle technology leak
All: Why is this so terrible? Why not argue that this is peacetime, or that the Chinese have only a few nuclear missles aimed at us? Actually, the encryptation technology problem may be much worse that the inadvertent transfer of missle technology.

The reason why this is bad, even if 'nearly' free trade is good, is that this encourages nuclear weapons proliferation, as well as preparation for military action. There are too many times in history when a major war or a World War was precipated years before by the desire of an entrepreneur to 'make a quick buck' ( the current scenario ) . I won't go into details -- as there are others here who could rattle off pages of examples. My point is that military sales or technology leaks are just as inexcusable in peacetime as they are in wartime, as the military weapons stockpiling prepares us for the next war. And -- the next war will not be a pleasant one -- no one will be able to escape a Nuclear war unscathed -- be it in 10 years, or 25 years. Gold will be of little value if it is radioactive.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:31 - ID#335190)
Mozel @ I Will Bite ( But I will do it my way)
mozel ( @Should taxpayers in Canada finance ) ID#153102:
"Should taxpayers in Canada finance the bailout of banks that lent money in Indonesia?"
Thus another time-bomb was added to the anti-labour arsenal to be used if and when the proper moment arrived. As in the case of the Taft-Hartley Act, with its non-Communist oath provisions, another law ostensibly directed only against Communists was directed in reality against all labour.

But, as in the case of the Taft-Hartley Act, labour was prevented from full mobilization against the anti-labour law by those of its leaders who feared that labour would be smeared as Communists if it acted in its own interests. And that was precisely the design of labour's enemies.

The New Deal had become only a symbol under Truman but under Eisenhower it became a synonym for treason. In an effort to undo what President Eisenhower called the "creeping socialism" of the New Deal, offshore oil, government-owned synthetic rubber plants, public lands, public power and atomic installations were handed over to the glories of private profit.

Resources and enterprises estimated to be worth more than fifty ( 50 ) billions of dollars were turned over to Standard Oil, General Electric, the du Ponts and other huge monopolies in deals which made the Robber Barons of Grant's day seem like pygmies.

President Eisenhower, himself, under the spur of the mass desire for peace and life came in time to say that some Americans would have to "rethink" the nation's problems. He spoke of world trade that included even Russia and China, sounding a new note with his declaration, "We can have prosperity without war production" And with something of the fervor of a NEW DEALER he recommended a great government road-building program.

As the New Deal's "socialism" was being reversed by governmen's give-away programs for the benefit of corporations, Senator Joseph R. McCarthy was charging up and down the land accusing millions of Americans. Under McCarthy's ministrations the ancient Red Scare blossomed, like some ever-growing evil plant. To the world it seemed as if Americans had succumbed to mass insanity.

"Why have we grown afraid of ourselves?" asked Adlai Stevenson, Democratic aspirant for the Presidency, speaking at Columbia University, in 1954. "We are acting" he said, "as though the whole of this nation was a security risk." But almost as he spoke the Eisenhower administration was announcing that it had discharged 7,000 government employees as possible Reds or as some other kind of security risk.

Thousands of other Americans had lost their jobs, many of them trade unionists accused by McCarthy, were exiled in their own country because someone had "whispered" they had improper thoughts or associations.

Thousands more had lost the power of protest, once the birthright of every American, had been paralyzed into silence by the general hysteria.

Harvey M. Matusow. An employee of McCarthy and the Department of Justice, one of the time's chief finger men, he confessed in his memoirs, "False Witness" that he had been instrumental in convicting a score of persons, Communist and non-Communist, as well as trade union leaders, on perjury testimony bought and paid for by the government.

Federal Judge Dimock formally found the Matusow had lied in testifying that George Blake Charney and Alexander Trachtenberg had advocated the violent overthrow of the government. Judge Dimock granted the Communist leaders new trials and in so doing placed an uneasy idea in the American conscience, the fear that all the Smith Act trials had been frame-ups.

Sooooooo, Mozel, the cold war is over, and yes, Canada is screwed, and Canada is paying for world debt, yet, history suggests that American Common Law, and "We The People", have financed the corporations that have today brought the world to the point of economic madness. You and Your's have been very successful. Job well done. You must be proud.

Be Quiet...Consume...And Die---Mushrooms-R-Us---Take Care.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:32 - ID#288369)
@Mr. Mick.....Dow down.......
maybe 300 ( or so ) tomorrow........?

(Tue May 26 1998 20:32 - ID#26455)
Great comments LGB.
But I saw it in the papers, it MUST be true.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:33 - ID#26793)
Bema Gold news.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:35 - ID#253228)
Not necessarily reality, just forces in motion

Above are updates of previously posted projections. Note that each new post is slightly different from the prior projection, as a result of the effects of new data points, internal dynamics of the recalculation process and sometimes newly identified oscillations.

I know it sounds wacky. I also know it works more often than not at least enough to make money.

I remember the stock market crash in 1987. The gold shares held up for one day and then went the way of the rest of the market.

The market is high relative to its trend. This is not to be a crash. I have come to the conclusion that for a crash, the crest of the waves must reach about 40% above trend. At 30% above trend the reversal is more controlled. In my book a correction covering six months and 30% is not a crash.

The downmove in gold shares I presume will be driven in part by the decline in gold and in part by the change in perception in the stock market.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:35 - ID#190411)
I wonder if your fascination with a gold site is akin to my going to Hubert Humphrey for president campaign headquarters in 1968. This one was in Madison, Wisconsin, one of the leftwing intellectual gulags of the midwestern US.
The smashed dreams of all of those lefties were carried to fruition by R.M. Nixon, anyway.
This is from one who despised both of them.
Goldwater was the last semi-honest national politician that made any splash.
Notice the name Gold
AuH2O in '64.
Get up gold, you old tart.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:38 - ID#227238)
Studio R: Sounds like the ultimate ratio. Would it be going too far to compare it to the sacred runestone? ..... Inquiring minds want to know: How do you do it??

(Tue May 26 1998 20:38 - ID#288369)
We do like golden fried catfish, eh? hush-puppies...ohmy WE BE BIG BULLHEADS.


(Tue May 26 1998 20:39 - ID#261118)
RJ......well RJ what of it?
Give's us tuppence boy! ( he's possesed of fine direction ) , lay out our path lad; do tell....


(Tue May 26 1998 20:39 - ID#57232)
Self - destruct devices
Silverbaron: Good point. My guess is that our Military satellites have self-destruct devices to prevent encryptation hardware from falling into undersireable hands if a missle launch has to be scrubbed, or if a satellite fails.

But -- I doubt that commercial satellite encryptation 'black boxes' have self-destruct codes -- got to save money, you know. Let us just hope that the encryptation hardware the Chinese apparently got from a failed satellite launch does not allow them to 'reverse engineer' access to our military communications. And -- there is the small matter of those 80 or so briefings by John Huang in the Commerce department regarding encryptation techology. The puzzle is many times easier to unravel if you have the plans ( or something similar ) .

(Tue May 26 1998 20:39 - ID#27341)
The Hatt
Self serving politicians sell everyone out, YOU would know all about that.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:42 - ID#228128)
Do Ascani and Favors have Web sites that one can visit and if so would someone post the URLs. Many thanks. Sorry APH, I don't know of the mother of all cycles. If I find it, I'll post it.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:43 - ID#284255)
The Hatt
It's not the gold that they sold
But the paper they rely upon
That is bringing our markets down.

Latter they will regret selling our gold.
But at the moment they think that they are smart.

It is not OZ's fault
But the fault of
Monetary policy globally.

When the markets crash
We will not be doing it alone.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:43 - ID#252391)
Robnoel - agreement
Couldn't agree with you more in your comments about Cklinton in China where freedom tried for a brief moment to raise its head. I remeber too well watching that event back in '89 too well. A new low for Clinton in my

(Tue May 26 1998 20:44 - ID#269409)
@ JTF..Encryption / software
I think there may be a misconception about the potential for sensitive "encryption" technology to fall into the wrong hands.

Firstly, as far as "secret" or "classified" technology goes, we don't export any for launch in China. The satellites we've laucnhed there are "commercial" communications satellites, employing technology that's understood globally already. the satellite in question that initiated the launch failure analysis was built for a European customer.

Secondly, as to the technical and proprietary aspects of our designs, we send a rather large team of Engineer's along for the launch, from start to finish. The satellite is under rather close "watch" at all times, if you know what I mean, and no reverse engineering of our design or technical capabilities has ever been attempted, nor would such an attempt succeed without our immediate squelching of such attempt. I shan't go further in explaining other thenm to say, on these facts, I am giving you "absolutes" which I know firsthand, not my "spin" on things.

Thirdly, even if a launch fails and the satellite get's blown up or falls from the sky, as was the case with the "IntelSat" bird, there is so little left intact, and the technology is so complex, that making meaningful use of the pieces would be well nigh impossible. I know what it takes to sucessfully build one of these birds, with hundreds of experts, engineers, suppliers, and three decades of design experience. I can tell you that trying to make sense out of the "pieces" of one that's blown up, or even just broken up on impact, would be an exercise in futility.

Those who aren't in this Biz, don't appreciate the true complexity and expertise that goes into these birds. There's a good reason they cost 200 mill, and we barely make a profit at that.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:44 - ID#26793)
Argentine stocks plummet 4.85%; they blame Brazil, Russia & Asia

(Tue May 26 1998 20:45 - ID#341234)
Adam Smith
Did anyone see that IDIOT Adam Smith on NBR tonight. He was babbling that same old garbage about holding on to good stocks for the long term and buying more if they are cheap. He forgot one thing. If you do not sell when they are high you will have no money to buy them when they are cheap! How can that jerk tell people to stay in the market if they truely believe it is over valued and headed down. If you believe the ship is sinking, get off before you drown!

(Tue May 26 1998 20:46 - ID#288369)
Would you consider wearing a studio.7 tee shirt when you're on 60 MINUTES? I'll make a donation..... ;^ ) ~

(Tue May 26 1998 20:47 - ID#57232)
More rolling devaluations
sharefin: My educated guess is that this drawn-out ping is not 'the big one' yet. Perhaps a bear market, but not a 1987-style collapse. My reasoning is the following -- the Japanese are looking for a safe place to park their funds, and so will the South American investors. The US market bull will eventually resume for a time.

My guess is that after there are no other markets to collapse -- Europe, South America,etc., then the US markets will be at their greatest risk. We are not there yet. But I agree with you that the big one might be soon -- y2k, perhaps. Now, if we have a crushing bear, gold and gold stocks will start to shine.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:50 - ID#26793)
Mexican stocks down 3.44%; they blame Asia and Mexican bank bailout plans.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:52 - ID#411112)
JTF....conspiracy is my forte.....Galaxy 4... the question did China send a message we now have the

power to knock off your satellites,is it not possible they now have the ability if 1 ) they got the chip 2 ) were successful with reverse engineering........mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

(Tue May 26 1998 20:56 - ID#269409)
@ Made in China.... Ha!
Besides, they can't even make decent quality cheapo toys over there! Buy something with a "Made in China" label, inspect it closely, and you tell ME....

Will they be able in our grandchildrens lifetimes to make sense of the tens of thousands of Integrated circuits ( literally ) , and MILLIONS of 1 mil bond wireconnections, active devices, and propietary technology that it took decades for our scientists and engineers to produce reliably, using all the latest technological innovations? ( And I'm really only scratching the surface here )

(Tue May 26 1998 20:56 - ID#26455)
Fred, if the pundits weren't making those kind of statements at
this time it wouldn't be a top then would it? who says they don't ring a bell? It's recognizing the difference between good advice,and just folling the crowd.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:58 - ID#57232)
Your 20:44
LGB: I cannot recall the reference to one of our satellite launches in a Chinese missle where the American observers noted that the satellite was remarkably intact, intact enough for the sealed 'black box' to have been broken open, exposing the encryptation chips. Those chips were reported to be missing by either CIA or NSA experts. You may be able to find this reference on Kitco about one week back.

Undoubtedly you already know that Loral and two other communications firms fixed some sort of defective electrical connection in the Chinese launch vehicles, unbenownst to the proper US authorities. That fix made the Chinese missles much more reliable, and it will be just a matter of time before the Chinese fix their military versions.

LGB -- Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying that I think Loral is the culprit in all of this. It is clear to me that the problem is that the security of our military has been breached at many sites. There must be much cleaning up at the highest levels before our national security will return to what it should be.

(Tue May 26 1998 20:58 - ID#26455)
Thats following the

(Tue May 26 1998 20:58 - ID#269409)
Damn, was that Mike Wallace I just saw standing outside with that camera?

(Tue May 26 1998 21:00 - ID#284255)
We will see over the next ten days trading where we are to go.
But my indicators and charts of global indices are saying down.

I doubt the chance of a bear.
People - sheeple - act differently now from the days of yesterday.
I doubt that they will wait patiently while there share plummet.
The rush for the door will create the crash.

The same as to when the masses finally realize the impacts of Y2k.
They will move enmasse.

The wedgies that were formed on many US indices are breaking to the downside.
The close was on a low, precipatating further lows.

I expect a week of heavy selling followed by capitulation.

We will watch these markets together - yes?

(Tue May 26 1998 21:01 - ID#288369)
I "purchased" the ratio's formulae from a funny little import/export fellow by the name of Johnnie Chung. He said he got it from an advanced fortune cookie designer located in Peking. That's all he would tell me.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:02 - ID#434158)
gold, silver, commodities and stocks
I keep telling myself over and over, "buy low, sell high; buy low, sell high; buy low, sell high;" And every impulse nevertheless is to buy what is doing well and dump what is not. Time to say it again....

(Tue May 26 1998 21:02 - ID#247273)
Hmm...LGB....sounds like
the kind of thing we said about Japan in the late 50's and in the 60''. Those who do not learn from history are ..... finish it yourself.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:03 - ID#210114)
I think gold is a good reserve assett but nothing more. Just trying to make a quick buck with POG down.

Was astonished to find the high degree of Right-wing thinking associated with 'goldbugs'.

Sicking to my social deomcratic guns.

Live Long and Prosper. ( without Hubert Humphrey. )

(Tue May 26 1998 21:08 - ID#57232)
Reverse engineering
LGB: Do you really think the Chinese are only still making plastic toys?

What about that massive nuclear complex they have been working on for the last 25 years in the ( Gobi? ) desert? And -- my roomate at graduate school ( I wont' say which University ) was Chinese -- genius level. My Chinese classmate one year ahead of me got a Nobel prize in physics -- also genius level. What you forget is who trained these Chinese physicists that will be reverse engineering all of the technology that you ( and your fellow compatriots ) painstakingly designed. And -- they have full access to our scientific literature.

I am in favor of continuing scientific collaboration with the Chinese -- during peacetime, anyway. And I am infavor of maintaining ( mostly ) open trade. I am not in favor of freely giving away military secrets.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:08 - ID#284255)
Gold still going down
GCM8 now @ $294.2

Commodities are dropping fast.
CRB index looks very sick.
Wonder why?
Cause no one wants to buy?
Will this happen to the stocks too?
You betcha

(Tue May 26 1998 21:08 - ID#269409)
Yer not hearing me man!

You just said "undoubtedly you already know that Loral and two other communications firms fixed some sort of defective
electrical connection in the Chinese launch vehicles, unbenownst to the proper US authorities. That fix made the Chinese missles much more reliable"

that statement above is what I'm railing about in umpteen posts! I keep telling you JTF, I know firsthand for a fact that the statement is quite simply, totally untrue. The CHinese identified a "likely" cause of failure, which happened to be a broken solder joint in the wiring...not too "high tech" eh? No one at Loral or Hughes provided them with a darn THING that they didn't know already.

We issued a report for the insurance carrier, blessing their "Failure analysis"....and failed to get the proper PinHead buerocrat signature before the "Comittee" ( which consisted of Loral, Hughes, and other Engineers assigned to review the FA ) released the report to the Chinese.

This is QUITE a far cry from providing them with "launch technology" which would help them improve the accuracy of their delivery vehicles.

As to them getting "encryption" chips, there's no "black box" involved in a Comm. satellite, and as I said, you'd be hard pressed to make sense out of the pieces of a broken up one. I doubt that even our opwn team of expert scientists and Engineers could ever make sense of whatever pieces are left after such an event. The things are just way too complex for that, and they sure aren;t designed to take a "blow" by hitting the ground at a few hundred MPH!

If the CHinese found any "chips", more power to em, but it'll be decades or more before they'd ever be able to make useful sense out of em, and by then we'll be several generations beyond this technology.
(Tue May 26 1998 21:13 - ID#434108)
Pakistan could test Nukes soon
India & Pakistan exchanging gun-fire on Kashmir border.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:14 - ID#57232)
Ping II continues seemingly forever
sharefin: I also have noticed the commodity price index. The 10 year bottom is 200. If it goes below 200, look out below for gold and commodities alike!

I don't know what will happen. My gues is that the commodity price index will bottom, and so will gold/gold stocks -- very soon -- because we will have a bear -- not a crash. I suspect that I am more exposed than you in my gold stocks -- probably a mistake on my part -- but I do have a fair number of mexican and sp500 puts.

What does the Oldman say? Yesterday he was long the spoos.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:15 - ID#190411)
My, I'm surprised that your'e surprised that there is so much "right-wing" ideology associated with the goldbug set.

I think that you have hit it on the head when you say that you will be sticking with your Social Democratic Guns.

Fiat money and socialism of any name relies on guns.
The longest period of world peace and general prosperity coincided with sound money.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:16 - ID#27341)
Hang in there SPOCK,

(Tue May 26 1998 21:17 - ID#269409)
Yes, the Japanese made "junk" till they adopted the concepts of Deming...well before our own manufacturing folks did unfortunately.

However, it's an "Apples and Oranges" comparison. Building a good Honda, and building a good satellite, are about as comparable as making a "lean-to" from playing cards, vs. building a High Tech. industrial city from scratch.

You can "reverse engineer" a lot of simple parts and electronics. Stereos, auto's, et al, can be torn down and duplicated rather easily. Believe me, it'd take many years to do it with a Comm. satellite, even if you had ALL the parts.

Those who don't deal with Hybrid, microcircuit, RF microwave technology, and what is onvolved in all the other complexities of a space vehicle built to last for many years with no way to "fix" a problem, simpy don't appreciate the complexity of the design and manufacturing that's involved. I daresay, you don't see the Japanese marketing Comm. satellites either!

(Tue May 26 1998 21:18 - ID#340459)
Markets are melting down, Russia stocks have dived 50% this year, Korea down 13% in less than a week
Most S.American Markets fell by 5% today. But What is happening to Gold in this scenario is scary and against any market tradition or logic. Gold is supposed to shine in this situation but Gold and Gold Stocks are tanking faster than other assets.

Why ???????????????????

The Only way that Gold will rise now is for EMU to announce it's intention about Gold backing Euro. Europeans seeing a rising dollar against Yen and every other Countries paper will be fearful of a weak launch of Euro as their survival may very well depend upon a Strong Euro and a Strong Euro Paper needs substantial GOLD BACKING, Otherwise Greenback will devour ALL other forms of paper much to the detriment of Global masses. The Banks and Insurance Sector's traditional rivals are uniting like long lost Brother's around the globe as bastions of usury has realized that if they dont merge THEY DIE. Massive Global defaults are on the Horizion as everybody owes everybody else and none has assets worth a dime in Stagflation that is evolving.

It will take Western Mainstream sometime to wise up to what is sneaking up on them financially. The World should Lynch Soros who started it all last July by screwing Thailand, Indonesia and South Korea. Many here at Kitco has been mis guidedly cheering the falling Yen and the falling Asian Market while not realizing that ASIAN BUYING IS THE HOPE OF THE GOLDBUG not an Commodity ANALyst at Goldman Sachs in Noo York.

Lynch Soros and Lynch Kinkel, the snake that bites the hand that feed..

(Tue May 26 1998 21:21 - ID#269409)
With your 21:08, we can conclude this totally "on topic" discussion, since it's a post with which I agree 100% !!

( But I certainly don't concede that it has any bearing on the previous points raised! )

Back to rocket science now.... ( dang, all these Kitco posts, now I gotta stay till 9:00 PM t get my work done! )

(Tue May 26 1998 21:23 - ID#284255)
Asias reaction to dow sell off.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:23 - ID#413195)
in sack-o-tomatoes
LGB: Hey! I thought we were going to try to conserve bandwidth. If you don't want to, cool.

Why did it take a 200-page report to tell the Chinese about a broken solder joint!!??? What else was in that report?

(Tue May 26 1998 21:23 - ID#153102)
What Stock is guaranteed to go up ?
Answer: Federal Prisons, Inc
But, so far as I know they don't serve Chinese food. Maybe when Clinton gets back they will be serving it.... to American inmates incarcerated by Federal Prisons, Inc in China.
Suggestions. Invest in your future. Call a Tortfeasor. Buy a set of chopsticks. And consider changing your handle to Big Insider.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:23 - ID#57232)
G'Nite all!
LGB: I think you misunderstand me about one matter. Loral is only one little piece of the puzzle. What upsets me is not Loral per se, but the entire environment that permeates our government -- supercomputers for China and India -- other technology such as the superhard metals techology that was delivered -- the list goes on and on. Most of the worst of this does appear to be post - Bush. Techology for votes. Anything and everything for sale.

But -- I repeat again -- please be careful.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:25 - ID#247273)
Nothing more
dangerous than arrogance that USA somehow doles out knowledge and genious to the rest of the poor, ignorant serfs in Asia. Enough said.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:28 - ID#335190)
Mozel @ An added note, for your consideration.
In 1888 the American Federation of Labour ( AFL ) voted to continue the eight-hour movement, fixing May 01 1890, as the time for action. The following year leaders of the organized labour movement in various countries met in Paris to form an international association of working people.

After hearing reports of what had happened in America,* ( Chicago -SATURDAY MAY 01 1886..some 80,000 workers walked out for the eight-hour day - Bohemians, Germans, Poles, Russians, Irish, Italians, Negroes, and former cowboys who now worked at the stockyards. There were Catholics, Protestants, and Jews, Anarchists and Republicans, Communists and Democrats, Socialists, Single-Taxers, and just plain people all one and irresistible for the eight-hour day. ) *, they voted to support the eight-hour fight and designate MAY 01 1890, for an international eight-hour-day struggle.

On that day workers all over Europe showed their solidarity with working people in America by taking part in parades, meetings and demonstrations for a shorter work day.

Thus, international MAY DAY WAS BORN IN AMERICA, growing out of the struggle for the eight-hour day.

FWIW....Mushrooms-R-Us...Take Care.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:28 - ID#284255)
Global Intelligence Update
China Upset Over U.S.-Japan Defense Agreement

On Friday, May 22, the Director General of the Japanese Foreign Ministry's
North American Affairs Bureau, Toshiyuki Takano, told Japan's parliament
that the vague zone defined as "areas surrounding Japan" in the recently
revised U.S.-Japanese defense guidelines incorporated the Far East, which
would include Taiwan. The defense pact, revised last September and signed
last month, calls for Japan to provide logistic support for U.S. forces
when a situation arises in "areas surrounding Japan" that would
significantly impact Japan's peace and security. The agreement, which was
supported by three new Japanese bills to legalize such activity, also
provides for the operation of Japanese minesweepers in international

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhu Bangzao on Tuesday expressed
Beijing's concern over Takano's statements, referring to China's "strong
indignation at the move by the Japanese side of wanton interference in
China's internal affairs." Zhu called on the Japanese government to "make
an explicit clarification and explanation" of the statements, which were
"in obvious violation of the principles of the Sino-Japanese joint
statement." An editorial in the official newspaper "China Daily" further
criticized Takano's remarks, asserting "China's worries have become
reality: Takano... has finally dared to voice what some Japanese officials
have apparently had in mind for a long time--to include Taiwan in the U.S.-
Japan defense guidelines."

The Director General of Japan's National Defense Agency, Fumio Kyuma,
attempted to play down Takano's remarks, stating that "It's extremely
inaccurate to argue whether or not the guidelines surpass a vague area."
However, Kyuma remained ambiguous as to the actual boundaries of U.S.-
Japanese defense cooperation, stating "there is no need now for the
government to hammer out a unified definition."

Vice Foreign Minister Shunji Yanai on Monday went a step further than
Takano when, referring to a 1960 Japanese government position paper, he
said that Japanese-U.S. defense cooperation might not be limited to the Far
East. He said that the idea of areas surrounding Japan "is not a
geographical concept and can not be defined in advance." Yanai said that
"Japan's definition of a situation as one causing an important influence on
Japan's peace and security would not be based on the situation's location."
The 1960 official Japanese government view said that the Far East roughly
covered Japan and its surroundings, including South Korea and Taiwan and
southward to just north of the Philippines, but that the scope of U.S.
actions would nevertheless not be limited to those areas.

China is feeling pressure from more than just Japan. The Sunday edition of
South Korea's "Seoul Sinmun" reported that the U.S. and South Korea were
currently revising the 1953 R.O.K.-U.S. Mutual Defense Treaty to take into
account the current status of their alliance. The paper cited a high-
ranking diplomatic source as saying that the focus of the treaty would be
shifted from coping with the North Korean threat to "cooperation between
the two countries for the peace and stability of Northeast Asia and the
Asia-Pacific region." The source said that the new treaty would contain
provisions for a continued U.S. military presence in Korea after the
peninsula's reunification. Bearing in mind the new U.S.-Japanese defense
guidelines, the source reported that a potential R.O.K.-Japanese security
cooperation agreement is also under consideration.

Despite what are apparently steadily improving relations between Beijing
and Moscow, China also has reason to fear a reversal in those relations.
Plans for increased Japanese-Russian defense cooperation are moving ahead
steadily, with top Japanese military leader Admiral Kazuya Natsukawa
scheduled to visit Russia from May 31 to June 7. Russia's ITAR-TASS news
agency also reported that the month of July would be "packed" with
bilateral meetings between Russia and Japan, including a possible meeting
of the two countries' foreign ministers at an ASEAN forum on security to be
held in Manila on July 26-29. And on Tuesday, China felt the sting of
Russian-U.S. cooperation when a Russian Border Patrol ship fired on a
Chinese fishing boat, killing the captain and one crewman. The Chinese
vessel was one of five spotted poaching salmon in Russian waters by an
American reconnaissance plane, which reported the incident to Russian
border guards. The Chinese vessels were then intercepted by the Russian
patrol ship Dzerzhinsky and the U.S. Coast Guard vessel Polar Sea.

The increasing instability along Japan's import routes has Tokyo clearly
aware that "areas surrounding Japan" extend very far indeed to encompass
areas posing a threat to Japanese peace and security. This was
demonstrated during the recent Indonesian crisis, when in the name of
potential assistance in evacuating Japanese nationals from Jakarta, two
Japanese patrol boats were sent to the Strait of Malacca. This is further
demonstrated by talks on Tuesday in Bangkok between Japanese and Thai
defense officials, who exchanged views on regional issues. The one-day
meeting, the first of its kind, may mark the beginning of a series of
similar talks between Japan and ASEAN nations, according to the Japanese
Information Center.

With Japan's expanding sphere of security interest compounded by a renewed
U.S. interest in the region and evident hedging of bets by the Russians,
China is growing worried. High spirits from the return of Hong Kong,
tentatively improving relations with Taiwan, and growing influence in
Southeast Asia, have given way in Beijing to worries about military
encirclement, a contracting economy, and civil unrest. As they are chief
competitors for Southeast Asia in an increasingly unsettled time, we expect
the current souring in Chinese-Japanese relations to only worsen.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:28 - ID#253246)
Any clients of veneroso gold watch fax service

Is anyone making any money for this $8k year service. From some
of the postings from the gold watch faxes I've seen on kitco most
of this information doesn't appear to be home run material for making
money in the precious metal markets.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:29 - ID#269409)
@ Ron....Bandwidth bandit
Obviously a guy who doesn't realize how wordy engineer's can be. You ought to see the kinda tree killing paper waste that goes on around here for the slightest little failure mode.... It'd make that 200 pages look like a Kindergarten primer of Jack & Jill. Especially if it has to be written to convince some insurance adjuster......Again, you just don't understand what this Biz is all about. But before I get into the physics, metallurgy, workmanship training issues, relaibility program, ad nauseum that go into discussions of things so simple as a solder joint....let me adhere to my promise to JTF and get back to the rocket science we're not supposed to be discussin here!

(Tue May 26 1998 21:30 - ID#413195)
in sack-o-tomatoes
AZAU: It's not arrogance. R&D buys knowledge. And no one can afford to spend money on R&D like the U.S.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:34 - ID#242325)
Sharefin: You predicted a meltdown last October.But the US and Europe came roaring back. Why will it be different this time?

(Tue May 26 1998 21:38 - ID#253246)
Sharefin Investech Franco &Euro


Did J Stack unload his gold stocks on his hotline tonight, I assumed
you are a subscriber from some of your past postings.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:38 - ID#269409)
AZAU.... Ahh the Ugly American self loathing thing again....
The U.S. is 200 years old.

Chinese civilization is thousands of years old.

You tell me who's come the furthest the fastest? Who has the preferable political system? Better standard of living? Longer life span? Better quality of life? Level of freedom? Treatment of the poor? Advancement of technology?

Does it make American's inherently "superior"? I think not. It has more to do with the metality of who came here, why they came here, and the political system that resulted, ( plus the wealth of natural resources ) ....

However, let us give credit where credit is due.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:39 - ID#386279)
Has anyone noticed...
How it is very difficult
To exit gracefully
From a movie theater
When it is on fire?

I smell smoke.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:40 - ID#39857)
Gold Squad catches up on a deskload of work!

(Tue May 26 1998 21:40 - ID#153102)
All that demonstratin'.
And there's still 24 hours in a day. Must be a lesson there somewhere for somebody.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:41 - ID#373403)
LGB(Poor Loral)
"Those who aren't in this Biz, don't appreciate the true complexity and expertise that goes into these birds. There's a good reason they cost 200 mill, and we barely make a profit at that."

I guess they made enough profit to donate $600,000 to the Democrats! The only large donors are those looking for something they otherwise wouldn't ( shouldn't ) get. Alcohol, defense attorneys, tobacco, price fixing food conglomerates. If not relaxed export waivers for sensitive technology, what else in the world would cause Loral to be the SINGLE LARGEST CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTOR?

(Tue May 26 1998 21:43 - ID#341234)
To: kapex
I do not intend to suggest that I have any idea if this is the top of the market or not. I just hate to see people being brainwashed. P.S. ding ding.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:44 - ID#340459)
Tis the start of market downturn, Unfortunately Gold is behaving rather strangely if this old beast
does not perk up soon than it will be global economic anarchy, a rudderless Ship sinking fast with supertitious millenium phobia and y2k to boot.


I think that we should watch this market very carefully now as our future is at stake and discuss issues related to that here instead of worrying about civil liberties in Shenzen or works of Che Guevera. Lewinsky and B/C will be ok, they can always sell their blow job stories for millions even after fall from grace.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:44 - ID#386279)
I am strolling quietly
And nonchalantly
Toward the exit.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:45 - ID#269409)
@ MissingLink
Bernie contributed that dough because he covets high level hobnobbing with political cronies ( and also happens to be a Democrat ZEALOT if I may be so bold ) . Methinks he might like to be appointed to a high level cabinet post someday. No argument there. But then, I already said I didn't like his history, or politics on this score. It's his right however, just as it's the right of Hollywood airheads to try and sway elections to the left.

Does all this mean we gave sensitive technology to China? Nope......

(Tue May 26 1998 21:46 - ID#153102)
@Hurrah for TOBACCO

(Tue May 26 1998 21:46 - ID#386279)
Maybe Puetz
Will be back

(Tue May 26 1998 21:50 - ID#413195)
in sack-o-tomatoes
LGB: Well, okay. That's fair enough. I've turned out hundreds of pages of analysis myself on occasion for my clients, looking at things that intuitively ought to have been rather simple and straightforward. Still I always strive to follow the advice of one of my math professors who told us never to charter a plane to cross the street.

BTW, I agree with Mozel, and if worst comes to worst, certainly hope that you are given the option to eat Chinese food for a year -- and not find yourself on a forced diet of bread and water!

Finally, I must say that a real man would've offered to eat Big Macs for a year. :- )

(Tue May 26 1998 21:51 - ID#153102)
The world is going to hell in a handbasket.
Let us have our fun.
This is too serious to be serious about.
Got Gold. Hold some up to your forehead. It will chill your fevered brow.

(Tue May 26 1998 21:51 - ID#242325)
Midas; The buck and the bond must begin sustained bears in order for gold to mount a sustained bull.

Now that the Dow has dipped 3% and is below 9000 it is again cheap. Time to load up on spoos for the next leg up to 10,0000. ( har )

(Tue May 26 1998 21:56 - ID#317193)
No bounce off of $295...tomorrow tells the tale...
duck if it is down.


(Tue May 26 1998 21:57 - ID#335190)
TORONTO, May 26 ( Reuters ) - Canadian mining concern Cameco Corp. continued to dismiss reports on Tuesday that a cyanide spill near its Kumtor gold mine in Kyrgyzstan had poisoned hundreds of villagers, killed livestock and polluted a resort lake.

"We have been unable to find any evidence of people or livestock who have suffered any ill effects from this spill," Cameco spokeswoman Elaine Kergoat told Reuters.

Kumtor gold mine is two-thirds owned by the government of Kyrgyzstan and one-third by Cameco. The gold mine, which began production in 1997, produced 500,000 ounces of gold in its first year of operation.

Cameco shares fell C$1.85 to C$43.75 on the Toronto Stock Exchange on Tuesday.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:00 - ID#340459)
@mozel and OLD GOLD, A very massive global financial deception is probably being executed that
aims to win this global cold war through using US paper to grab all tangible assets of poor nations. If Europe plays servitude to this drama of bloating greenback, we are, how shall we say HAD..Goldbug or not..

(Tue May 26 1998 22:03 - ID#153102)
Saw the post on the Cameco spill.
Disgusting. Environmental horror. Mother Earth burned and tormented.
I think it's the last straw. Decent sharing, caring Canadians must demand their representatives OUTLAW GOLD EXTRACTION NOW.

Gold owing Canadians ( A.K.A. Demoncratic Socialists ) should donate what gold they have to the Fund To Bailout Indonesia Now and never touch the filty yellow stuff ever agin.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:06 - ID#153102)
When you hear or read of one who did not go quietly, think of me.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:06 - ID#288369)
@Nick o' C............................
Yep, I'm headed over to the concession stand, while the loons scramble, and I'm goin' to have me some "FREE" milk duds, junior mints, sugar babies, pop corn, a BIG doctor pepper and the biggest dill pickle in the jar! Hell. WE'RE ALL GOIN' DOWN! AIN'T NO ESCAPIN' FIRE! FIRE! ( burp ) LOOT! LOOT! ( ohmy achin' tummy! )

(Tue May 26 1998 22:10 - ID#227238)
Haven't posted charts in a long while. Here is the daily chart on Harmony gold. It's beginning to give new direction to the Bollinger bands. To the downside, unfortunately. Even though it's still inside the channel, it don't look especially good.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:14 - ID#408170)
EB...... The Snake Head in the Spoos
Well my friend:

With her head held high in a position to strike, what did she

do, that venomous shrew.

Spued forth did she that vile "vomit" of money, earlier eaten with such raaaaaavenous vigor.

Puke again you vile "Bitch" ay.. I believe she may..............RBStanding

out the way!!

(Tue May 26 1998 22:16 - ID#342376)
@ Mozel
"This is too serious to be serious about" ---beautiful

(Tue May 26 1998 22:16 - ID#215208)
My 2 cents
Gold will bottom when silver bottoms around 4.90. Maybe tomorrow. After carefully tweaking up my gold channel and zooming up, it looks like the channel bottom is right at 291, a couple bucks lower than I had thought.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:19 - ID#218221)
I don't think he's trying to brainwash anyone at all. He, I believe, believes that the buy and hold philosophy that has worked for the past what, 16 years and 8400 points later is, Now more than ever the correct approach.

Fred, a 5th wave of a 5th wave brings in more lunacy with respect to, why the market is where it is, and the reasons it will continue on the same course than you will ever see at any other time.I was not suggesting that you felt it was a top, I was. Just remember, at a top ( or bottom ) the outlook and justification for future gains ( or losses ) are as bright as you could imagine READ 401k, IRA, money liquidity up the wazoo. Every other Bubble ended with the same level of optimisim and utter complacency that we have right now. How else can you explain why normally intelligent people are explaining to you why a stock with 30 or 40 or 50 times Next years earnings is a good investment? Or conversly why in 1980 Time Magazine's front page said the Death of Equities? I don't know about you but that seems like it would have been a good time to buy. At the Extremes, the so called experts lose their cool and fall in with the crowd. It's knowing the signs when you see them that that distingushes the smart money from the other.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:19 - ID#227238)
Here is the weekly chart for the XAU. Plotted with a commodity channel index and channel. Not looking especially swell. It appears to have broken through the channel with a vengence. As an added note; those heavy candlesticks at tops just have to be respected. Think of them as money savers. Kinda like a Safeway coupon.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:20 - ID#266105)

Tiptoed back into Harmony this morning ( 1k sh ) @ 4 3/4.

Nice chart. Systemless, clueless, me-- I just flail around
aimlessly and try not to wake the missus.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:20 - ID#30116)
The Almighty BUCK!
The most likely reason for the sell off today was the realization that the dollar cannot go to infinity in value. Closely linked to this thought is how do we export with a TOO 'strong' dollar.

Also, the justice folks are now after the Intel part of Win-Tel. Is nothing sacred anymore? :- ) )

The question becomes how do you devalue the dollar WITHOUT imploding everything?

(Tue May 26 1998 22:21 - ID#227238)

(Tue May 26 1998 22:22 - ID#215208)
London afternoon fix
Keep in mind my channel charts are based on the London afternoon fixes. The London fix has not yet confirmed the full extent of today's drop. Tomorrow is a critical day.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:24 - ID#227238)
Sorry for the miscue. I forgot to hit the preview button. Getting charts out of the ftp file is becoming problematic for some reason. I was trying to post a weekly silver chart but cannot get out it of the file.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:24 - ID#20748)
ECB was expected to announce the gold component of its reserves in early June. Does anyone have news of that. Please post.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:25 - ID#284255)
Oh what a view from the top?
Old Gold
We have arrived at a new plateau.
The view is even better up here.

Have a good look at the charts on this site:

We now have major financial problems being realized because of Asia.
The contagion is now spreading.
Also realization of Y2K impact is starting to be widely known.

The CRB is showing us that demand ( prices ) is falling.
When the world cannot buy or sell its products.
Then the inflationary perspective of stocks earnings.
Will crumble.

I will have to get back to you on that one.

You have a keen nose.
Hope you have your surfboard well waxed.
Your style confirms your nous - nose

(Tue May 26 1998 22:25 - ID#288369)
@Earl of the Charts.............
Sell those charts to the Pink Chinese...that'll wipe 'em out. ah so.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:26 - ID#335190)
Mozel @ Blinded by BS
"Disgusting. Environmental horror. Mother Earth burned and tormented."

Mozel, get a grip. I had given you more credit, another mistake, on my part eh!. Who the hell do you think finances these environmental groups. Crass Roots, or maybe Artificial turf groups. Funding is the name of the game.

Do your person a favour, and dig into you senses that that guy you consider your GOD, gave you. Think man, do not be blinded by your hate of others, you are being duped along with all of us "OTHERS". What you consider "The Powers To Be" have a new tool to use to turn on and off as they need, by using Environmental groups, yes, many active in such groups do not know they are being used as a political tool, for the active advancement of commerce. Hell, each person in his/her self is a walking talking environmentalist. Ask to see the books/accounts donations etc. you may be surprised were the funding comes from.

Gold is on the ropes, more bad news the better, so push a person out of a helicopter, spill so poison, what the hell do your "Powers To Be" care eh!

FWIW...Get with the program, buy gold. Take Care

(Tue May 26 1998 22:27 - ID#227238)
2BR02B?: I think I sold you some of mine.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:28 - ID#341312)
LGB, Spock
LGB-Sure sounds like Loral pissed off the wrong bureaucrat and it's playing into the "Free Willie" crowd's hands. I'd be more than happy to see Clinton resign or be impeached for any number of things but then we'd have Gore as prez. Now that's a scary thought! Btw, McDonnell Douglas no longer exists. It was absorbed by the Borg, uh, I mean Boeing. One day Loral will be also. You will be one of 212,000. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED! RESISTANCE IS FUTILE! Boeing-now there's a pro-China company. All that untapped market potential for 737's, 757's, 767's and maybe even some triple 7's, I suppose.
Spock-we're not all right wingers here. I suspect quite a few of us distrust both parties to some extent. So here's a quick poltical primer, American style:
Liberal-You want everyone to be equal. Wealth be redistributed and opportunities rationed according to government edict. Political leaders, of course, will be quite a bit more "equal" than the rest of us.
Conservative-Everyone will conform to your moral values and religious beliefs. Those who do not will be blamed for all of society's shortcomings. Business, however, will be relatively free to operate provided they do not employ "undesirables".
Libertarian-You wish the government would just F**K OFF and leave you alone. To you, the two party system is a sham being run by donations from major corporations and hordes of special interest groups that are strip-mining the middle class of its liberty and wealth.
P.S.- I'm almost out of dry powder but the rest of it's going to get used up on $5 silver and $295 gold. It's like they're giving it away! Yeeha! I bet WB is buying AG like crazy. Go Warren Go! AU and AG-Guaranteed Y2K compliant! It's the best money that money can buy! Order now while supplies last!

(Tue May 26 1998 22:28 - ID#266105)

Nope, still got MINE...

(Tue May 26 1998 22:31 - ID#227238)
Studio R: Sell to the Chinese? We must make them more inscrutable. Like the fella who sold you the inscrutable ratio. Much money lies in conveying a lack of understanding. Yes?

(Tue May 26 1998 22:34 - ID#20748)
Asia, again.
Just look at what's happening.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:34 - ID#206358)
Gold half dead...!

(Tue May 26 1998 22:36 - ID#373403)
"I'm almost out of dry powder but the rest of it's going to get used up on $5 silver and $295 gold. It's like they're giving it away! Yeeha!"


(Tue May 26 1998 22:36 - ID#340302) is not my idol and it never will be...
...although I believe it is the best investment in a global currency crisis ( involving the U.S. buck ) and/or a severe stagflation/inflation....also the Y2K bug does not make me feel very comfortable about the future state of our banking system and it is very difficult to place large sums of cash under one's mattress ( a big fire hazard, you know ) .

I only have been a goldbug since 1993...previous to that, I played the general equities market. I was quite successful and, consequently, various relatives coat-tailed my every move. I was indiscriminate in my investing...everything from defense stocks to titanium to oil to gambling to retailers to you name it. I shorted and I went long...options, straddles, written calls, you name it, I did it.

My biggest score occurred during the construction of Atlantic City. I had investments in a variety of casino stocks that went through the roof. People thought I was crazy as Las Vegas was considered the undefeatable King of Casinos and I had a very heavy position in various Atlantic City gaming stocks.

My biggest one day score occurred in a position I took in General Dynamics call options...I will not provide you the figure as it was absolutely obscene. To this day, when I tell people, they usually get ill. Money should not be so easy to make, I suppose.

However, I no longer play "everything." Some time ago, I decided that there is something fundamentally immoral in the idea of investing in companies irrespective of their ethics. I try to get some idea of what a company or an industry is all about before I invest in it today.

I regret my investment in General Dynamics although it was a huge score. It bothers me to this day that I directly invested in a company creating arms and munitions for the annihilation of who knows who. I worry about my Karma as a result of that little investment.

With respect to gold, I am down somewhere in the neighborhood of 50%-60% on my current paper investments ( thanks to Fall, 1997 ) . However, over the past five years, I have had several key victories with respect to Hemlo, Bema, Goldenstar, and Meridian Gold ( formerly FMC gold ) . Taking profits from these respective investments and real estate sales, I still have ample cash, a very nice pile of physical gold, and NO DEBT whatsoever to ride out any further gold storm ( But don't worry, it REALLY is about to end shortly ) .

My fairly high-powered education in Economics ( along with a new moral code with respect to investments ) have probably prevented me from participating in the incredible Wall Street Bull over the past seven years. I simply have far more knowledge about the "problems" inherent in the global economic system than the average guy on the street. I never expected a Bubba from Arkansas to have the ability to solve them ( I was correct about that! ) . Much to my surprise, Wall Street never paid any attention to all these early decade economic negatives. The policy of "There is no bad news and if there is, we don't care and will never acknowledge it!" has dominated The Street's mentality this past decade...and with much success. It really has been a bizarre decade for those of us from the "old school" of investment philosophy. However, there eventually comes a point where denying the existence of a severe negative is impossible...especially when it stares you directly in the face.

Finally, although I often recognized the existence of certain "hot" stocks and "hot" industrial sectors, my new investment moral code precludes me from investing in many of them.

The easiest way to fortune for the average investor this past decade....simply hand over all your money to a 26 year old mutual index fund manager and say, "Baby, let it ride!" Who would have ever thought it could be so easy?

Once the systemic financial crisis I expected to unfold in the Early Nineties finally unfolds in America ( as it inevitably must ) , then gold ownership will prove to be a great salvation and a certain path to riches. Hopefully, things will rapidly improve after the crisis and the sun will shine brightly again for the world at large. Personally, I believe ( and hope ) a much more egalitarian and humanitarian global financial system will emerge from the ashes. Then, I will happily cash out most of my gold investments and return to general equities investments with the same zeal ( albeit greater moral restrictions ) I maintained back in the Seventies and Eighties.

Gold as safety net and path to riches ( once it is revalued upward again to reflect the Great American Paper Pyramid ) ...Sure!

Gold as an idol...Sorry, not for this guy!



(Tue May 26 1998 22:36 - ID#288369)
@Earl....I have but one inscrutable question.......
Which of you has my money? studio.kitcoitus

(Tue May 26 1998 22:36 - ID#194311)
gold money is Y2K compliant...oohhhh yea.
think about it banker buddy.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:36 - ID#218221)
fiveliter, Im with you. Lets see, HL, BMG, ABX and silver bullion too.
I just hope I can get some before the smartest money in MY lifetime beats me to the price.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:37 - ID#373284)
I on this eve ask your forgiveness...I did see your post...I am locked in a conversation with one of my fond elders and Hmmmmmmmm.......we are re-polishing Christmas bulbs...Namaste'

(Tue May 26 1998 22:37 - ID#284255)
oi - what's going on here?
At our illustrious Kitco site
Where the fortunes of wealth and knowledge
Come gliding across the ether
To rest upon our glowing screens.

There has been a change.
Smoke has been smelt
By some of the keenest noses
And what they smell
Doesn't smell like roses

Their nous is well recorded
Their insights bring us confirmation
Of our changing world
The one where
"It doesn't get better than this"
Is often touted.

Listen well and think most clear.
If the smell that is sniffed
Turns to more than smoke.
What are your chances?
That the paper you hold
Will go up in value
And not down the gurgler.

Beware and bewarned
After all it is your paper
You are holding.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:38 - ID#72316)
Nick @ 21.39
I left in a rush today, I know exactly what you mean. He who fights and runs away, won......

(Tue May 26 1998 22:39 - ID#39857)
Rotflmho. Don,t trip, accelerate slowly, think like
a sheep dog whos just penned the last one, if one of em
starts bleeting, get out-a-there pronto. Oh boy all that
froth on that shoulder, dont forget a brand new leg-rope.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:40 - ID#30116)
Final thought for this evening...
Sell in May, and go away!

Good night all........

(Tue May 26 1998 22:41 - ID#247273)
Gold Down with paper
Indicates a tapped, uncertain market. Fence sitters. Volumes low.
This balancing can not last too long.


(Tue May 26 1998 22:42 - ID#216415)
If there's an award for the most obscure post on Kitco, you just won hands down. A bunch of letters and URL not found. Alright.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:45 - ID#75206)
LGB's 20:24 comment

If Loral makes only satellite technology, and doesn't possess the launch and guidance technology they have allegedly given to China, why in hell isn't Bernie Schwartz before every microphone in the media saying exactly that? If he has the truth on his side why isn't he screaming his innocence from every news and talking head show in the country? The guy is acting like Slick Willie regarding la' affaire Lewinsky; i.e., he ain't saying much. All we hear from him is that the waivers were consistent with past policies. He has yet to tell the country exactly what Loral does. If, in fact, Loral doesn't possess the launch and guidance technology which is at the heart of this entire affair, why doesn't he say so? Why doesn't the Pentagon say so? Why doesn't the State Department say so? That statement would either be quickly shot down or, if it couldn't be shot down, the entire scandal would be rendered moot. Loral can't transfer something they don't possess. No one has yet to make that argument. I find that truly incredible if its true. It is so simple and effective a rebuttal of the allegations made against Loral, I find it difficult to believe true or someone would have stated for the public record what you have stated here. Bernie Schwartz, call your office; LGB wants to talk to you.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:48 - ID#43460)
Look on the bright side, folks + a question for themissinglink:
You guys are eternal pessemists! Look on the bright side. The only ones who know how do the work to retool and rebuild the industrial base after the dollar collapses and the computers stop working are the retired people. And since they are really bored with their lives of useless luxury they won't mind at all when their pension checks stop coming and they have to get back in the work force. The youngsters will be alarmed when their video games and t.v.s stop working, but they'll get over it, after all their is nothing like hunger to erase boredom! IMHO

As for me, I'm looking into buying a pair of breeding mules ( 8-^] ) so I'll have the jump on everybody else when agriculture returns to 19th century levels and the price of a good mule goes through the roof. Don't need catalytic converters on mules! IMHO

Themissinglink: if you've read this far, would you give an opinion about something which you mentioned earlier today. Which is the better investment ( no pun ) buy right now, 24k casting grain or premixed 14k or 18k?

(Tue May 26 1998 22:52 - ID#286230)
"The longest period of world peace and
general prosperity coincided with sound money."

When was that?

(Tue May 26 1998 22:52 - ID#227238)
Studio R: Little grasshopper; your money, if it exists, may no longer be found in the imaginary pocket belonging to Another. We will search for it together. Yes? ....... Inscrutably yours,

(Tue May 26 1998 22:53 - ID#216415)
@Whee haw!
Lookin' at those Asian markets tonight I just exclaimed aloud and scared my kids. "Nothing, child, just looking at some numbers."

Airbrushed Bill singing happy happy songs to the market today. Now we will stop callin' him Billy Bob Nixon and can start callin' him "Happy" Billy Hoover. J Edgar considered it his responsibility to put the bright face on calamity to prevent panic.

What kind of fool am I? Who never fell in love with a market?

SilverBaron and Sharefin, thank you for your generous postings. This has been one tough market day to get in touch with. Reach out and touch the event horizon. The movies keep touch with our realities. Is this wierd or what?

(Tue May 26 1998 22:53 - ID#335190)
Australia holds 'Sorry Day' for taking children from Aborigines

SYDNEY, Australia ( AP ) -- Weeping for the families they lost, Aboriginal elders who had been taken away as children accepted the apologies of other Australians in a day of contrition Tuesday for a now-repudiated government policy.

om the 1910s until the early 1970s, state and federal government policies encouraged removing as many as 100,000 Aboriginal children from their families and putting them in government care, contending that the race would die out otherwise and that the children needed protection.

"I used to dream about my mother holding out her arms to cuddle me," she said.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:54 - ID#266105)
@StudioR.-- scrute the inscrutable, eff the ineffable

Not much for T&A ( ahem ) but I likes that inscrutable radio.
Gold/$USD, it is the first readily comprehensible structure
I've come across in two years here. According to the top
of the page it currently stands at 294.20...what more is
there to know.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:55 - ID#288369) versed post.............
We'se goin' find out real soon what happens to gold stocks when the New York Stock Exchange goes kerchoo! OhMy papers smell funky. shoooweee.

(Tue May 26 1998 22:56 - ID#227238)
Promey: That's what happens when we move onto a higher mental plane. Studio R made me do it. If he hadn't mentioned the Chinese, Yin/Yang and all that other mysterious stuff, I woulda been alright.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:02 - ID#340302)
@EJ...if we do enter a pure deflation...
...then I feel fairly certain it will be rapid, swift and severe, bringing with it major devastation in the American Dollar. Currencies will swing wildly all over the place and gold/silver will be the preferred safe havens of relative stability and intrinsic value. That is one major reason why I am not a big fan of Cash. The American Buck will not be immunized against this financial cancer.

Moreover, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I think Bonds will also be decimated in rapid, severe deflation as interest rates will be forced upward to preclude capital outflows and "save" the U.S. dollar ( Bonds are only good investments in a slow, steady deflation ) .

Why do I think any deflation would be rapid and severe? Because there is simply far too much leverage in America for it be anything else. Debt levels are through the roof. When the buyers dry up, then they will really dry up. Mass liquidations will occur everywhere! Big Money interests with cash will sit on the sidelines and let everything fall through the floor then rush in and scoop up the dead remains.

Again, the government recognizes these realities and is doing everything in its power to keep the masses uninterested in gold investment. Better that the public should be heavily invested in treasuries when the market debacle occurs so that, in the worst case scenario, the government can continue to make interest payments on its debt.

No conspiracy theory...just plain simple fact.



(Tue May 26 1998 23:09 - ID#45173)
Gold and DOW go down together
Wall Street minds have finally begun to process negative factors for US corporate earnings: 1 ) the Asian contraction and the impact on US corps that export to Asia or that compete with Asian exports, 2 ) tapped-out on profits from downsizing and productivity via technology, and 3 ) Y2K costs ( lurking in 10K reports ) .

Stock prices are bets on future earnings and the odds are now compelling that earnings will fall, so must stock prices. Why does gold, seemingly perversely, fall with the DOW? Because the two are unrelated, for now. The DOW goes down for the reasons stated above. Gold goes down because DOW sellers aren't gold buyers -- yet. DOW sellers are bond buyers. Gold sellers are Asians, to the tune of 270 tons in Q1 1998, to cover losses. Gold buyers are still small in number: CBs and private investors who are 40 or older, outside Asia. Not before young DOW sellers become gold buyers we will see the price of gold rise. In the mean time we have a rare, short-term buying opportunity.

That's my take on it.


(Tue May 26 1998 23:11 - ID#153102)
EBT a.k.a. Electronics Benefit Transfer will save the day. You will be able to buy anything with EBT after the deluge. This will remove the stigma of being on welfare.

Remember what FDR said about Lend Lease ??: when a neighbor is in need, we can't let a silly little thing like the dollar stand in the way.

What's another word for tyranny: FIAT.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:12 - ID#335190)
Here Is Your New War @ Yugoslavia & Albanian & Serbian
Violence flares in western Kosovo, many feared dead

PRISTINA, Yugoslavia ( AP ) -- Serbian police and ethnic Albanian separatists fought in western Kosovo for a second day Tuesday, sparking fears of an escalation of violence in the troubled province.

The latest fighting raged around the town of Decane, about 65 kilometres west of the provincial capital of Pristina. Ethnic Albanian sources said at least 10 people have been killed since Monday and more are feared dead.
The fighting appeared to be the worst violence since early March when a Serbian police crackdown on Kosovo separatists left about 80 dead, mostly ethnic Albanians. Altogether, nearly 200 people have died in Kosovo since March.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:14 - ID#340302)
@EJ...good post...
...but read my earlier post.

Gold falls right now because certain First World governments want it to fall. They are all praying that when the equities bubble bursts, the masses will flock to bonds....NOT GOLD.

Yet, beware of bonds! ( again see my previous post ) . At best, they will prove to be a mere short-term solution before they suffer their own devastating crash.

It's that simple.



(Tue May 26 1998 23:15 - ID#153102)
There's just no pleasing you.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:17 - ID#190411)
Just about the time I start catching your drift, you stop posting as often.
With the weather developing in the South, what's your poop on the grains?
Are you doing the gold calls, now that the out of money's must be getting cheaper?
- Just checking the train schedule.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:18 - ID#335190)
Mozel @ EH!
What Pleasing ? : ) : ) : )
Take Care

(Tue May 26 1998 23:19 - ID#348129)
May 24 1998 BUSINESS NEWS America poaches bug busters

David Parsley

BRITAIN's leading millennium-bug-busters are being lured to America by leading companies with offers of free flights on Concorde every weekend and lucrative salary packages, including bonuses and share options.

American firms are spending millions on ensuring they have the best brains the world can offer to tackle the year 2000 timebomb.

The news comes as Tony Blair still searches for his first soldier in an army of 20,000 bug-busters. Blair launched the "army" at the end of March but the Department of Trade and Industry has only just begun sending application forms to those hoping for the 1,300 grant to become one of the millennium fixers.

A survey commissioned by The Sunday Times and compiled by Software Research, an information-technology research house, reveals that America is short of as many as 340,000 millennium programmers while Britain is between 20,000 and 30,000 short. But American companies are reducing their staff shortages at a far greater rate than their British counterparts, by raiding them for staff, offering programmers up to 5,000 a day, and ensuring they can take Concorde flights home every weekend to see their families.

Edward Yardeni, Deutsche Morgan Grenfell's New York economist, said: "America is probably going to be the top dog with all the money drawing in all the resources and leaving others to suffer. But even this is bad for the US because the problem is a global one, not one of individual countries."

Yardeni, who advises Congress on the bug, pointed to Bank of America as an example of where cash is being used to lure top brains. Last week the bank said it was dedicating $350m ( 218m ) to the problem, with almost a third being used for programmers' ever-increasing salaries.

ICL, Britain's leading computer-services group, has lost two senior staff to Gartner Group, its American rival.

The millennium problem has arisen because many computer systems use only two digits, not four, for dating purposes. When the year changes from 99 to 00, experts say many applications will crash or create indecipherable data.

Richard Coppel, chief executive of Prove It 2000, returned from America last week and was horrified by what he discovered. "While America appears to be behind the UK in making people aware of the problem they are beginning to use their financial muscle to catch up and poach our best programmers," he said. "We are on the verge of another brain-drain of Britain's greatest minds."

Mark Taylor, Microsoft's director of consulting, said: "The days of using sticks to make programmers work are over. Firms have to use carrots and offer the sort of terms and conditions that are seeing dramatic increases in salaries, bonuses and share options."

 The Corporate PC Millennium Report is available from Software Research for 395. Phone 01491 411111

(Tue May 26 1998 23:20 - ID#43460)
Budget surplus? Newslink and comment.
Rumor has it ( actually made up from the whole cloth ) that President Clinton will use the 1998 US budget surplus to commision a beautiful diamond necklace for Hillary, on the pattern of the one made for Marie Antoinette just before the French revolution.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:20 - ID#45173)
farfel: I've heard it said that conditions today are much
like 1929--a highly-leveraged, overvalued stock market; high employment; low inflation; excesses of spending and luxury; huge disparities of wealth beetween rich and poor, etc. The big difference is that in 1929 the US was a creditor nation and it's currency was backed with gold. I can imagine a scenario where immediately following a stock market crash induced deflation that individuals react to the event by voting the debt-backed dollar worthless with hyperinflation. Then cash is crap and gold is king. Your thoughts?

(Tue May 26 1998 23:21 - ID#373403)
"Themissinglink: if you've read this far, would you give an opinion about something which you mentioned earlier today. Which is the better investment ( no pun ) buy right now, 24k casting grain or premixed 14k or 18k?"

Well I can buy 24K grain for $298 ( $3 premium ) and I can sell it for $295. On the other hand I can make 18K for $233.5/oz and sell it for $1,200/oz. as custom jewelry. So I guess I have to say 18K: )

Seriously, I always buy 24K and alloy myself because it takes less money to stock. Otherwise I would have to stock 14KY, 14KW, 18KY, and 18KW. Premixed carries a 10-30% premium depending on how much and from whom you purchase versus buying at spot.

On another note, since you outed yourself as a behavioral engineer I have been troubled by your monikor. Gag and Radiate? Go back to 223, it's less creepy.

p.s. Anyone interested in learning how jewelry is made, visit my manufacturing page at:

(Tue May 26 1998 23:23 - ID#340302)
@EJ...You are Correct, Sir... feelings exactly.



(Tue May 26 1998 23:23 - ID#348129)
OH YES, and free Concorde flights every weekend !!!!!!!!!

(Tue May 26 1998 23:24 - ID#340302)
...I would not be surprised if your hypothesis comes into effect.



(Tue May 26 1998 23:28 - ID#57232)
Thanks, farfel
I knew there was a very sharp mind behind those words of wit. By the way, in my young and innocent days, I had a chance to invest in Atlantic City. I ignored what was happening outside my little research lab in those days. Had no idea that Casinos could turn real estate into a feeding frenzy. Same thing is happening in Detroit.

My first exposure to gold was in 1993, also -- brokers would call me up and ask me what I was doing -- doubled my money. Beginners luck.

You know, you really don't need to be pro-gold on Kitco. You are preaching to the Choir.

By the way, I think silver will burst out of its lows in the next few weeks, repeating the second phase of the 1993 gold bull , but with silver leading rather than gold. The only thing that is really worrying me now is why the commodity price index is dropping so rapidly. That is not inflationary at all -- makes me worry that D.A. might have it wrong after all.

All: Does anyone know why the cry0 is dropping? Delayed oil bear effect? Problems in Europe? If the US markets become the only ones standing, that will be very deflationary indeed, as long as the foreign commerce is still functional. The US markets would probably skyrocket, due to low interest rates and flight to safety, only to collapse when the last scared dollar enters the markets. Repeat of 1929 likely, eventually.

My intuitive guess is that the cry0 will turn about abruptly this summer or fall when ElNino effects in North and South America affect agricultural products. This will cause gold and silver to bottom as well. Hope this is not just wishful thinking.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:30 - ID#348129)
@ASIA Melting down further
Regardless of what the Market Magicians say, the DOW cannot continue to ignore this world economic crisis and not be impacted.
ASIA and Y2K and Mutual Fund redemptions are destined to do in
the DOW. The only question is how bad ?????

(Tue May 26 1998 23:30 - ID#43460)
Rain in midwest easing grain prices. But not a word about continued drought on Louisiana rice crop.
In fact, not a mention. Wow if US rice fails will it REALLY mess up the market! IMHO

I like the tightly organized rationalization the newswriter has when dismissing the first quarter surge in Indian gold buying. Then next week when the POG goes up will they say 'see we mentioned Indian buying last week but nobody paid attention'?

(Tue May 26 1998 23:30 - ID#43460)
Rain in midwest easing grain prices. But not a word about continued drought on Louisiana rice crop.
In fact, not a mention. Wow if US rice fails will it REALLY mess up the market! IMHO

I like the tightly organized rationalization the newswriter has when dismissing the first quarter surge in Indian gold buying. Then next week when the POG goes up will they say 'see we mentioned Indian buying last week but nobody paid attention'?

(Tue May 26 1998 23:32 - ID#288369)
I have just learned, in exchange for a sum and other valuable consideration, from a highly placed friend of the pink chinese, ( as they now watch and drink together ) , that a man by the name of ANOTHER has my money. yesno?
And now we watch this inscrutable ratio together....poorly. yesno?

(Tue May 26 1998 23:33 - ID#287193)
@ gagnrad.....I agree --thats why I posted...
all those winners at :

Date: Tue May 26 1998 18:35
Servhard ( @ LOOK ..and look again.. --happy days are.. ) ID#287193:

here again!
Now--who made money today??

give me a few more!

I do not know how long these url's stay alive. Lots of big
winners today.
You have to pick the right one's!
Looks like your training is what's needed to trade in bad times!

(Tue May 26 1998 23:35 - ID#190411)
I am full of joy, amongst other things that your trip to Las Vegas was so enjoyable.
The next time that you give us this cryptic information about a "short squeeze", or anything of that sort, you might just consider that there are novices here that might be silly enough to take that talk seriously.
As someone who professes some expertise, and never uses IMHO, you might find that your oracular powers have been subject to devaluation.
There are unsophisticated lurkers that could take a big hit if they acted on some of your calls.
I would mention that "I have been wrong in the past, probably partially wrong in the present, and most assuredly, occiasionally wrong in the future."

(Tue May 26 1998 23:35 - ID#45173)
MoReGoLd: 5000L a day!!?? Screw this software sales and gold
investment crap. I'm going to brush up on my COBOL, FORTRAN, Pascal, PL/I and C and make some real $ at Goldman, Sachs. I heard from a customer today he'd read on a Y2K site about a congressional proposal to draft programmers to fix Y2K bugs for Gov't agencies. I can see it now, drunken geeks dragged out of strip joints in the middle of the night by Gov't goon squads. They wake up chained to a desk in front of a CRT in the basement of the IRS. Hope they don't dig up one of my old resumes.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:39 - ID#153102)
@Devouring A Nation or I See Far Out
In the 1930's Demoncratic Socialist Revoloution of FDR and the New Deal Congress, the federal government took The Gold, The Titles To The Cars, and The Land as pledge to The Bank for The Debt.

And now seventy years later, after going through the gold seized overseas, they are broke again. And the overtaxed "private sector" is up to its ears in private debt. All it will take is a slowdown to start a wave of foreclosures, bankruptcies, and defaults the likes of which have never been seen before. And at the very, very least Y2K is going to produce that slowdown.

Now, except for the shirt off his back, what else does the American possess that the federal government can take as pledge for New Debt ?


What do you call a state corporation in Red China ? A Red Chip. The corporations which the United States Government will control by pumping in liquidity with fiat paper to restart the economy will be Red, White, and Blue Chips. This will save Social Security, Save Medicare, put Americans back to work, and take the last private property in America as pledge for federal debt.

The convergence of the United States system and the Red Chinese system draweth nigh. What does the USG possess that RCG needs ? Computer technology and biomedical identification devices to track the movesment of multi-millions of Chinese. What do the Chinese have that The Bank needs. Multi-millions of new potential worshippers of Baal, untapped payers of usury.

Hoosier Gold Bug
(Tue May 26 1998 23:42 - ID#401116)
scary 24 hours
This last 24 hours in the markets really scares me...we are having virtual collapse of S. Korea and Russia and strongly down days for nearly every market, yet I look at the AP Reuters news wires, hardly a bleep...Equities and PMs are being sold and short term US paper is being bought....This sure looks like a top to me.....the ride down may be very long and bumpy....

(Tue May 26 1998 23:43 - ID#190411)
I'm not Murrstein.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:45 - ID#57232)
ElNino in Florida -- forrest fires.
All: The ElNino effect is spreading. First Indonesia the first year, SEAsia, then Australia, then the Americas the second year. Apparently severe El Ninos have a high probability of a pattern like this. Our turn may just be beginning. ( I will post the relevent web site once I figure out where I got this info ) .

(Tue May 26 1998 23:45 - ID#341234)
To: Farfel, cc: ERLE
What was the deal with that "inside information" prediction of a big gold rally a couple weeks ago? Erle, thanks for reminding me of that. Honestly, I do not care what the price of gold is tonight in London, or tomorrow, or even next week. ( Well, if it is cheap enough, I might buy a little more. ) The point is, I am very patient. A few months is nothing.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:50 - ID#376309)
To Hoosier Gold Bug
Can you name a time in the entire history of the US stock market where the 30 year bond was making new highs AFTER a major top in the stock market occurred. ie - the bond market is holding up too well for the top to already be in for US Stocks.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:53 - ID#373403)
This is bad. Drunken fallen man gold graph.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:53 - ID#57232)
Big Gold rally?
All: We have been talking for months about how 'paper gold' is being traded, and we have been watching the silver market go up and down due to the shenanigans of the big traders. I know that gold is a 'political metal', but it does have a tendency -- like silver -- to skyrocket up and down.

What if the 'big traders' are getting set up in their gold trades? Wouldn't you try to push gold down one last time for that perfect 'long gold trade?' Maybe this is not due to the equities wilting, but something quite different?

(Tue May 26 1998 23:54 - ID#247273)
Asian Markets
obviously in deep preparation for Clinton visit in June.
Bring cash.

(Tue May 26 1998 23:56 - ID#45173)
Asia down tonight, gold down tomorrow? Hang Seng maybe below 9000?
Australia All Ordinaries ^AORD 11:48PM 2701.2 -33.5 -1.22%
China Shanghai Composite ^SSEC 11:31PM 1394.773 +4.357 +0.31%
Hong Kong Hang Seng ^HSI 11:47PM 9091.79 -390.42 -4.12%
Indonesia Jakarta Composite ^JKSE 11:48PM 426.364 -7.695 -1.77%
Japan Nikkei 225 ^N225 11:48PM 15626.52 -258.30 -1.63%
Malaysia KLSE Composite ^KLSE 11:47PM 552.96 -8.32 -1.48%
New Zealand NZSE 40 ^NZ40 11:43PM 2222.03 -18.08 -0.81%
Philippines PSE Composite ^PSI 11:48PM 2057.39 -51.91 -2.46%
Singapore Straits Times ^SS1 11:46PM 1299.05 -13.74 -1.05%
South Korea Seoul Composite ^KS11 10:31PM 304.72 -7.27 -2.33%
Sri Lanka All Share ^CSE 3:38AM 726.30 -4.30 -0.59%
Taiwan Taiwan Weighted ^TWII 11:45PM 8077.30 -101.07 -1.24%
Thailand SET ^SETI 11:47PM 347.67 -6.87 -1.94%

(Tue May 26 1998 23:56 - ID#22956)
I've been reading alot about the La Nia. It is what comes after El Nio. Have you heard anything about it? I am serious. No, Really! Seriously......uh huh. batten down the hatches