Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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Dave in CO
(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:05 - ID#229103)
Your post brought a mist to my eyes. Visiting this forum ( and Free Republic ) , I hear the values preached incessantly by my parents and which I tried to pass on to my children. I don't hear those values anywhere else.

Today I heard Brian Williams of MSNBC quote a question asked by a member of a former administration who was wrongly accused of a crime: "Where do I go to get my reputation back?" But Williams was using the quote in the context of Susan McDougal's release from prison.

I'm sorry but a convicted felon who is under indictment for even more felonies has earned whatever reputation they may have.

Crystal Ball
(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:11 - ID#287367)
@ EB
Hey EB, you old bottom-fishing Yen speculator, puz-drahv-LYAH-yoo s dnyawm rahzh-DYENy-yah. Nazhdarov'ya.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:19 - ID#343259)
Yen making the run at 143.
Tell me why yen should strengthen. When I look at Japan I see weakness, weakness, weakness. I see bad loans, off-balance-sheet deriviatives, bloated management, huge perqs, money-down-the-drain, high-on-the-hog-excess.

I see Rubin propping it up. It wants to fall ( or so it seems to me ) .

why should it rise ( other than intervention )

By what fundemental should it rise?

Remember, I am CompGeek, I seek to understand what is happening here. This is not my domain of expertise.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:27 - ID#105111)
@Dave in CO
Mr. Williams is either a practitioner of irony or doesn't understand at all how Ms. McDougal got herself into so much trouble. She is part of the "rich vein of corruption" I speak of.

The guy she embezzled from was a political fellow traveler who gave her the job to help her out of her troubles. She paid him back by stealing from him. Quite a gal.

Sorry for my melancholy attitude, but my wife's been out of town for three weeks and my gold stock is in the tank. I miss them both very much.

Say, did you hear about the horse that walked into a bar? The barkeep says "why the long face?"

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:33 - ID#105111)
All value is relative
Whether your favorite poison is fundamental analysis, technical analysis or political analysis, the bottom line to why gold is still in the tank is that people aren't willing to pay much for it. ( kinda reminds you of Pierpont Morgan's answer to why stock prices were going down: "because there are more sellers than buyers". )

CB's could play games all they wanted, but if people wanted gold, the price would go up. There is SUCH a psychological element to all this. When the financial markets went weird, many of us said that there would be flight to gold .. didn't happen. ( Gosh, how the world has changed. In my youth nobody knew or cared who the chairman of the Fed was, nor did they care what he had to say. Today Joe Sixpack definitely knows who Alan Greenspan is, though few know that he was once a Randite or what that means, and can sense a financial crisis, though again without knowing what it means ) .

America is scared. If there were a safe place to put their money, it would go there, you would think. Gold priced at cost is about as safe as you can get .. so where is everybody?

Big part of gold's poor fairing compared to stock market could be that much of the individual investment money in the US is in 401K's managed by corporations that think that sort of money should be invested in . corporations. My 401K doesn't allow anything but stock market investment in "funds", and there's no gold fund on the list. I have to change jobs every 5 years just to get control of my own retirement money.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:34 - ID#335184)
I saw the quote you cited re susan Mcd from Brian Williams.
I don't let those useful idiots in the tv media get my goat, but the raw ineptitude of that comment gave me a blood pressure spike & then to see the film clip of that brazen JEZEBELLE on the court house steps with raised hands like a legitmate hero with her scummy lawyer was too much.
She was in jail of her own accord. Her refusal to testify after being granted immunity is a continuing & ongoing crime. The Fed Judge Howard must be in the pockets. It is inconceivable that this decision would be upheld on appeal as it is an open invitation for other key witnesses like Monica to continue to join the stonewall brigade. Starr can not afford to let this stand.
As for her health, she always holds the keys to freedom in her own hands. All she has to do is testify to the grand Jury under immunity like any other citizn would be required to do.
Justice requires her to mold away in jail until she stops perpetrating her crime or until she is brought to the bar of justice for ripping off the Zubin Mata family.



Earnings slow, Japan cuts taxes & cleans up their Banks, S&P tanks, AG lowers rates, USD falls, Long Bond rises, S&P tanks & POG takes off.
YA !

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:37 - ID#153111)
One kind word for "Big Business"
You know I always hear a lot of bad mouthing of the big international corporations, and I will admit much of it is deserved. But I feel something is being left unsaid, and I have taken it upon myself to be the unofficial spokesman for who I will call "the silent minority".

They are silent because there is nothing they can say that will cause the average citizen to Hurray for the CEO of IBM! They are a minority because there are just not that many CEO's of IBM running around at any given moment.

Except as a demonized Buggy Man, Big Business is just not that powerful anymore! The image of an all powerful cabal of industrial giants running the nation in secret is a popular if not an accurate one. Any first year legal student working for the EPA can walk into the offices of any Fortune 500 company and shake down that company for a few $100K in bogus allegations.

Hell in the 19th century the industrialist didn't pay off politicians, they ignored them. Now days they have to worry about politicians, right and left wing organizations and their competition. If you don't think that this is true look at Bill Gates: he wanted to Run MicroSoft like JP Morgen ran his bank. He only had two lobbyist in DC and gave almost no money to them to entertain the Honorable members of the House or Senate and now he is up to his ass in alligators.

Much of this lobbying money going to Washington and to local politicians is not for buying influence but rather for protection money.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:38 - ID#340302)
@TRADER...if you wish to read more in depth about...
...Peter Lynch's enthusiasm for gold, then go examine the "WORTH" magazine archives ( about half a year ago ) . Therein you will find a big feature article ( plus interview ) detailing Lynch's gold boosterism.

Unfortunately, I do not have either a URL or the exact date of the WORTH publication. Sorry.



(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:40 - ID#105111)
The situation is Japan is SO strange. Much of what that government does just mystifies the living daylights out of me. You mentioned most of the obvious signs. I've been asking myself since April just why the Japanese gov't chose now of all times to deregulate private savings. This one act has put the Japanese into a REAL bind. Keep rates low and whatch all that lovely money leave, or raise rates and crash their banks.

I suggested the other night that there might have been secret clauses in the surrender document signed by the Japanese in '45. This is just a way of expressing my amazement at what they've done to themselves.

I watch all this going on in Japan and it reminds me that, though our government seems to be really really really bad, it's still better than most, if not all, of the other governments out there.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:41 - ID#262242)
Nikkei 225
down 154. Where stands the yen.

Would like to talk to New Zealand Kitcoites. Thinking of planing a trip there.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:44 - ID#287358)

the axe has fallen....paper has reached the valley of scissors....the weather is fixing to bring the crb roaring to life...the first vestige of the next commodity wave is washing upon the feet of the sleeping tickets are in hand....the conductor will take the riders as far as they are willing to believe they can go.....

people NEVER KNOW AS MUCH AS YOU think they do....use your own mind...look around...the coming diaspora has opened the doors to a veritable fortune....the writing is in the clouds, and has been for aeons....listen to your eyes, they are screaming......

the sky always seems to be falling at kitco....we see the future encapsulated, and realize most of the ramifications....yet it quite never seems to arrive....the first BIG kicker is here....the weather. it is going to turbo-charge all the commodities as never seen before...
1000k in '98......every-one should easily be able to acheive this with the shift in paper and 'stuff'.....physics dictates every-thing...
nature if you will.......and i will.....

'for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction' sir isaac....

'look' at the charts of the major paper indicies....
'look' at the charts for commodities....
'look' at 50 years of data to get the big picture.....

we will ( shortly ) witness a 'typical' semi-predictable shift in what is perceived as valuable...soon you will be able to buy the crb and make wild profits, just as was done with the paper indicies over the last 7 years...

the world is going to burst into chaos and flux before billy leaves office..the players know he is their window of opportunity...before y2k...the winds of war will be howling in at least 3 distinct areas of the world...

you must stroke the bat of life in order to feel the god-given non-peopleo assignment of living....o2 hides when my bat screams...
and it will scream again friday...more corn, and beans.....gook....
sorry...beans you know..

cherokee!; )

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:50 - ID#340302)
@TYOUNG...sorry but I still choke up... I search for anything positive to say about gold today.

It's a graveyard out there with gold bones littered across the tombstones.

On the other hand, that DOW/NASDAQ party is one helluva bash. Getting noisier and rowdier with each passing day.

"Do you wanna funk, do you wanna funk, oh yeah!"



(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:51 - ID#433143)
Holy Cow! Aliens Tell Rush Limbagh to run for Pres in 2000!!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:52 - ID#347235)
Will try again tommorow from work, Juno is sometimes tempermental system.
But it is free!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:53 - ID#373403)
Forget investing in diamonds. They are now making them up to a carat ( cut ) in the GH VS grades in Russian and Chinese laboratories. DeBeers too has this capability. The jig is up. Formerly, only yellow industrial grades could be manufactured.

It is only a matter of time for the manufacturing process to improve and make larger stones. The technology barrier has been broken. DeBeers is talking about watermarking ( branding ) their diamonds. Why would a monopoly need to brand themselves unless they were planning to exit the monopoly business? They see the writing on the wall, and the DeBeers brand will be associated with "natural", not man-made.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:58 - ID#153111)
Bad News on the price of Gold

I don't have much faith in the POG going up until the faith in US paper is reaches a critical mass. There is so much faith in the US Dollar that even the nations that have sworn to destroy America, have massive amounts of wealth defined in US Dollars. Am I the only one who sees there is something wrong in Iran egging on their people to protest the "Great Satan", and use the money making presses we gave the Shaw ( same presses the Bureau of Engraving uses ) to print phony $100 bills but they wont try to start a panic on gold? You know why? They have hundreds of billions in dollars. This is bazaar!

They could! Between Libya, Iran, Iraq, the Drug Cartels, and all other who would terrorize America, and the hundreds of billions ( may be trillions ) of dollars in their positions they have not done the one thing that would cause the US to become a beached whale, destroy the value of the US$ as a reserve currency. All they would have to do is buy all of the gold they could and sell dollars and bonds in the markets and the 7Th fleet of the US Navy stays home and the B-52 get melted down for aluminum content.

But they haven't, why. Amercian is a magic place for them too, and they want out paper, at least for now. But when the ship starts to going down you know there will be some motivated sellers out there.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 00:58 - ID#233199)
Hey F* don't be a hang dog....
..Gold is still what it was a few weeks ago... gold at cost in a world on the edge... no matter what happens at least you still have your Gold ( don't you? gald it's not diamonds...

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:04 - ID#39862)
Avalon............MIM Holdings

One must remember - they are based in Quuuueeeennnnsllllaaaannnddd,

they are a wee bit slooooow there..

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:06 - ID#340302)
@HAGGIS...come on...tell us the "inside scoop..."
What are the Aussie gold guys saying about that big sale last year?

Fill us in.



(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:06 - ID#287358)




gee whiz...........

every-thing matters.........and will be accounted for....whilst the mouth monitor has strength enough to stroke the keys.....bcoisyfh!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:07 - ID#267298)
SLINGSHOT - A late response to you.

I think that the proliferation of corrupt data
is one of the BIGGEST PROBLEMS facing Y2K.

A computer program is essentially a series of instructions.
So long as those instructions are "syntactically" correct in the
computer language being coded, they will be followed, even if
the INTENDED logic is incorrectly coded.

Lets look at a very simple example.
In a computer program you want to select ONLY the numbers
between 7 and 12 inclusive, So you write code that says
If Number is greater than 6 AND less than 13 Then. ( xyz )
The results will be accurate. However, if your code
is, If Number is greater than 6 OR less than 13 Then ( xyz )
The results will be erroneous.

Now, so long as the code is syntactically correct, the program
will execute those instructions, the computer ( i.e. program )
does not know that your LOGIC is incorrect.

As was previously stated, this is a very simple illustration.
A few adequately designed test runs would show this code
to be in error and the programmer would see that he/she
should have coded "AND" rather than "OR".

The problem is that most computer programs are not
quite that simple and straightforward. In programs
containing hundreds or even thousands of lines of
code, the probability of "BUGS" is substantial, no
matter the amount of testing prior to implementation.
It is not unusual for computer programs to run for
months and sometimes even years before "BUGS"
are discovered. These "IT-SURE-TOOK-A-LONG
TIME-TO-SURFACE" bugs are most apt to appear
when some "UNUSUAL" data is encountered.

I would think that a calendar year only ends in
00 about once every one hundred years. I would
also think that from a computer program perspective
this just might be considered unusual.

Now, add in the Y2K factor, that is the "FACT" that
we KNOW full well that some programs will "SCREW UP".

How can I say that this is an absolute "FACT" ?

Because, we KNOW that thousands, if not hundreds of
thousands, if not millions of programs, macros, subroutines,
functions, whatever, exist world wide that presently will
interpret the year 2000 as 1900. I admit I have no idea of
the number of programs at risk but I am sure it is a VERY
large number. We also KNOW that not every computer
program in existence is going to be Y2K compliant.
We also KNOW that even "SOME" computer programs
that ARE supposedly Y2K compliant will still have "BUGS"
in them, they just havent been discovered yet.

In conclusion, I am not one of those that believe that Y2K
is going to throw mankind back to the dark ages, but, I
do believe there will be problems, I think you can take that
to the bank.

IMHO & as always GO GOLD


(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:09 - ID#433143)
hahaha Kitcoites will lovee this page a little comic relief..

tabloid pics heheh

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:11 - ID#433172)
Politicians are not acting in the general interest,so we have all this stuff happening.
Direct democracy, everyone votes on every issue, executive don't decide nuthin and their isn't any congress. Direct demo on every level, local, nation, and world. Let ALL the people have a say on everything.
If we don't get on this bandwagon pretty soon???

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:11 - ID#105111)
An interesting thesis, that Gates' only crime was failing to pay protection. I know that this is going to JUST SHOCK THE LIVING CRAP OUT OF YOU, but I'm not sure I agree completely. Some people in the industry actually have some legitimate complaints against mr. Gates.

Like me, for instance. I build systems that have to work in a certain way, or they are worthless to my customers. If I follow the three pages of rules for installing Windows 95 that comes with the OEM Installation Guide ( which Microsoft says you have to follow ) , I end up with a bunch of junk on the desktop that would really mess up the system if my customers were to click on them. All of these rules for leaving junk laying around are essentially an effort on the part of Microsoft to use their operating system as a marketing tool ( more precisely as an advertising medium ) for their other products.

They justify all this by saying that their objective is to provide their customers with a "uniform experience". Well, my customers need a system that works, so I've been ignoring the rules. I'm not big enough for Microsoft to take notice, so it hasn't gotten me sued. My point, however, is that some of the crap that Microsoft pulls is good for MicroSoft, bad for the customer. End users may need the Windows OS, but they don't need the other crap that Microsoft is forcing on them with every copy.

I tried an experiment and called around. You can't ( or couldn't ) order a PC with Netscape on it from the big guys ( Gateway, Micron, Dell, etc. ) but the little mom-and-pop shops around town didn't hesitate.

I think there's more to Gates' troubles than just a failure to pay protection ( though I concede, a much as that hurts me, that you are largely correct there ) . In this industry you usually have to use MS to build systems, but lord does Billy load you up with some useless baggage when you use his stuff. It's quite a pain in the ass. So those of us in the industry that would normally want Uncle Sugar to stay off Gates' back are hoping that the pressure will cause him to ease off the bullshit and let the rest of us get some work done. In some ways, this is similar to a market. I don't think Justice would even think of going after MicroSoft if Microsoft hadn't found a way to piss off just about everybody in the country. I would prefer that a lot of us just bought OS/2 or something, though. Using the power of government to fix this one is a mistake.

Now that I've said all that, I hope Reno looses the case against MS. Freedom of speech means nothing if it doesn't include speech you detest.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:12 - ID#215379)
Gold = equals good value ?
I would venture to guess that most Kitcoites have been around investments for more than 20 years and made some money or saved some money during the '70's recession and following inflation years. We have actually seen the price of gold go up ! I would also quess that the majority of the "X" generation haven't seen a REAL multiple year recession and have only seen gold go down in price, especially if they bought some in 1980. Wonder why its hard to get them interested in gold ....

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:21 - ID#153111)
SlingShot: Strangeness in Japan Explained
Japan is in a pickle in no small extent because it followed the advice of Washington. Remember the early 90's? The Golden Idol of the Federal Reserve lowered Fed Funds to 3%? That was to stop the implosion of the US Banking system. City Corp was going under and that would take down a lot of other banks too. So Fed Head Greenspan took a gamble and lowered short term rates to 3% while long term rates were at over 7% for a 400 basis point spread in the credit markets. That is like printing money and giving it to the banks and any speculator willing to borrow short and buy long. It was called "reliquidation of the bank system". Alan was lucky, the long term rates went down and not up; so the final day of reckoning has been postpone to some time still in the future. Had the long term rates went up, you would have heard the "Big Sucking Sound" Ross Perot talked about coming out of the banking system.

Well the crisis in Japan was the same crisis we had in the early nineties. So what fixed us up should work for Japan, and Japan lowered their short term interest rates. Well it didn't work. So the next thing that the US did was to encourage Japan to deregulate, just like we did here in Amerika. Well that seemed to cause problems too! So to sum it up the Amerika encouraged the Japanese to lower rates to the point of nothing, and them we encouraged them to deregulate so the thriftiest people in the world would flee their banking system.

Now do you see why it is necessary to pay for protection from Washington?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:24 - ID#27341)
TO fear the loss of another is pain, to fear the loss of oneself is a crime against humanity.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:26 - ID#105111)
I said earlier that I think our disagreement, if there was one, may just have been terminology. Can't say that I saw anything to disagree with in your latest post. I would summarize any difference by saying that you are more concerned that data from non-compliant systems will cause problems with compliant systems than I am. Would you agree?

We'll all find out soon enough.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:29 - ID#335184)
Sling Shot & CompuGEEK
Ofcourse, what Morgan left out of that famous quote is whatever manipulation he orchestrated which caused the sellers to panic in the first place.
When asked what the stock market would do he said "It would go up & down." That's also real cute coming from a man whose minions controled the monetary levers of the country.


Japan is weak, & looking weaker, yet there is real cause for optimism because they are not sick without an obvious cure, like a person with aids or the next wave of the crises when this country will have to face its inslovencies of banks & USG deficiencies.
For them, it is just a matter of face , of admitting their policies were wrong headed & turning about to sounder policies of descent banking practices & lower taxation. I do not believe that the Japaneses are as well off as most believe because my best guess is that they are far more deeply ensnared in bad debt than is commonly admitted. The real debt easily exceeds 1 Trillion which is about 5 X their reserves. Either they will have to inflate their way out or tax their people into the stone age to clean this up. They apparently still have the real wealth to right their ship. It's simply a question of the momentum of fundamentals. At the moment, not only are they in recession heading for depression, the negative momentum of this situation would send JY to 200 & beyond if left unchecked. But let the signal go forth that they are actually moving to fix these problems & this perception would completely reverse & the momentum against the JY would swing a 180.

The JY would stop crashing if they did these things, but addressing the Bank's bad debts means that many corporations will have to be declared bankrupt & also remember that the NIKKEI is heavily weighted with financial Co.s which should also fail as the weak banks are closed or merged. This will mean some pain in the economy & displacement of people. After a false start, the NIKKEI wuold fall back & then it would be the #1 bull market for the next 10 years.
The # 1 thing for Japan to do to support their currency would be to raise rates & reward savers with a legitimate return. If they repatriate US Treasuries to reflate their economy & reliquify their banks this wuold be easier to do as this would also force rates to rise in the US.




(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:31 - ID#39862)
Farfel.................. WE ARE PISSED OFF..............

However, every dog has his day.

The current Liberal Government have had their day, as will be revealed at the next federal election. Australians do not necessarily see the Labor Party and an alternative. Times are changing.

Costello not only succeeded in selling off the farm, he collapsed equities, and..... nearly killed an export industry. People will not forget. The man is a fu.. wit

The Australian Federal Reserve/ Costello/ South Korea / Soros / ...where next ???

On the 3 August 1998, the Diggers and Dealers Conference will commence in Kalgoorlie for 4 days. It will be worth while linking into that, in order to get a feel for the current gold mood. Last years forum is located at:

In terms of the Auusie Dollar, the gold price is "healthy". However, the Ausssie Dollar is not. This has impacted radically on the exploration and mining industry, in sorting the men from the boys. The men are still spending the exploration dollar, and acquistions are in full swing.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:32 - ID#153111)
Dbog: The bet of two nights a go.
Hey remember that bet I wanted to enter with some one two nights ago? You sounded game but I need to do some more finagling with you on it? I wanted a serious estimates on the odds that Klinton would stay in China, its got to be like over a million to one, lets be fair to our President about this.

I was then going to take up that bet with betting one dollar that Klinton stays in China with you on the side that he goes back to the White House. Sling Shot can hold my dollar and your million dollars, he seems like a honest guy. What do you say?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:33 - ID#227238)
Mucho appropos.
Slingshot: Having spent a major part of the afternoon and evening attempting to install Win 98 on a new build; I'm in the mood to agree 100% with your sentiments.

The only reason I decided to do a 98 install was to support a new motherboard with the BX chip set. ...... Thank goodness there UNINSTALL routine worked ... almost flawlessly. I say almost, because somewhere out there is my LPT port. Don't know where.

The damn thing hung while trying to configure hardware. I think it was the sound card - since removed - but I think I'll ruminate on it while before making another attempt.

It did install without incident on my older 133 system. ...... but you're right. There is a lot of crap there that I don't need, appreciate or want. And I resent the clutter very much.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:33 - ID#257148)
The assay kit arrived today, thank you very much. Just perfect! I have been assaying everything in sight. Hmmm. perhaps the cat is next. :- )

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:41 - ID#105111)
There's a reason they call it "Plug and Pray".

However, much of the failures are due to "legacy" code .... anything new has to support all the old stuff, plus the new stuff. Which is, by the way, exactly what the Y2K thing is all about.

Sometimes it works, and sometimes it don't.

Hmmmm.... did a project last year on some medical equipement. It occurs to me to advise fellow Kitcoites not to submit to any surgery on Y2K critical dates. Even the thing that breathes for you during an operation has a microprocessor in it.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:42 - ID#39862)

Check out the Aussie dollar and Yen over the last two years - vs gold price.

Over the last two months gold has, surprise surprise, risen in Yen and AU$...............

Here in WA, this actually represents some relief. The Government, past and present, have put all sorts of obsticles in the local gold mining industries path. Never ending.................

NOW..........the US$ is not immune from what is going on.......GOLD will GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Check out other currencies against the gold price and US$.... interesting ?!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:43 - ID#413109)
Hey D-DOG,
Liked your simple explanation to SLINGSHOT.

Date: Fri Jun 26 1998 01:07
DBog ( SLINGSHOT ) ID#267298:

As I am just a simple layman, and have some questions, would like you to reply
via email, so as not to waste the time& space on a non GOLD issue.

My main concern, not living Stateside, is electicity, which connects to other
vital life dependent services, such as "WATER" and "Waste disposal" systems,
IF a glitch, or a malfuntion shuts these down. This BTW also seems to be the main
concern of the Yardenis Yourdons and other "specialists" dealing with this critical
I hear a lot of cynical remarks from many, about the doom and gloomers. How about
the realists, who are looking to plan for the worst case scenario, and are being laughed at?

Anyone with family, must think this thing through and get all available information NOW.
The public is busy with important matters, like the world cup, or the vacation plans. Now is
the time to buy the products for survival, no?

If this whole thingy is just something that will disrupt, and then cause some discomfort temporarily
why are the worlds biggest companies and governments spending some $600 billions to repair the
damage? Don't they know it's a minor glitch???

The minority is running for the hills, or New Zealand,are those people MAD???

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:44 - ID#267298)

Either your confusing me with someone
else or I was tired, pissed, or suffering the early
effects of some mental disorder because I don't
remember ANYTHING about a bet to do with
Klinton staying in China or whatever. But, if
there are any women in China that appreciate
an unzipped zipper, I sure as hell wouldn't bet
against you....


(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:44 - ID#153111)
Earl and SlingShot

Bill Gates is as hated as John D. Rockerfeller was one hundred Years a go. He might even have earned this hatred. What I don't understand is why Sun Micro Systems and IBM and etc don't offer a real product for the market to compete with MSFT. It sounds like Bill is ripe for a fall.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:52 - ID#153111)
Dbog: I'm dissapointed with you!

I'm sorry you don't see the wisdom in taking advantage of this almost sure thing, it was like taking a dollar from a baby. I hope you have a job in industry, you'll never make it in international banking!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:55 - ID#39862)
gone to drill some holes......
.......see ya later.......

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:56 - ID#227238)
Oct gold down a buck at last look.
MJPL: I think much of Gate's vilification is derived from envy. No doubt he is considered the "robber baron" of the late 20th century. As well, there is no doubt that he has the marketing power to swing things his way and his way is not universally coincident with what we as consumers would like. He is taking huge advantage of his competitive position and pushing it to the limit.

Fortunately, such powerful positions are eroded, over time, with or without the govt's interference. It just doesn't happen in the short time frame each of us would like to see...... He also has unseen technology to deal with. Something will come along that will have a major impact on the empire. It always does. We just don't know what or when. Too bad we have no competitive choices while we wait.

In the meantime the politics of demo/socialism remain that of envy.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:58 - ID#105111)
@MJPL: Microsoft kicks ass
Bill Gates is paranoid and takes advantage of EVERY oportunity to market his product, even when he's effectively shoving it in the face of customers, at the expense of usefulness. This same paranoia, however, has produced a superior product in many ways:

1. Bang for buck. I buy MS based stuff for home use because there's no cheaper comparable solution ( excepting Linux perhaps, which is free, but won't operate some key engineering applications I have to have and my wife and kids would have a hard time learning to use ) .

2. MS sells an operating system. In addition they sell really good tools for designing application software for that operating system. ( C, C++, Visual C++, Visual Basic, and so on ) . IBM didn't. OS/2 may have been a better operating system, but IBM charged more and didn't provide the tools for other companies to use. Likewise Sun, et al. Microsoft made is easy for other companies to make money with their stuff. Greed works.

3. MS has some good internal business practices. They operate on the assumption that somebody somewhere has a better product in the works, just waiting to take their market. They are constantly looking for ways to make their stuff more useful. When they screw it up, they fix it. We've all seen MS blow it big time. Everybody remember DOS 4.0? They fixed it. They have a practice of always "eating their own dog food": they use their own stuff.

Bill would stop making me mad if he would let me just buy the stuff I need without shoving the advertising junk in my face on my desktop. I got work to do, man.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 01:59 - ID#257148)
Anyone got a scalpel?
Echo your sentiments on MS. My company develops specialised accounting software that runs on Mac, Win and OS/2 simultaneously. Guess which O/S takes most support? If that weren't bad enough, our users get the "This program has performed an illegal operation, see your program vendor" message when that idiot Win 95 screws something up. Blaming us for a windows stuffup, Bstards. I'd like to perform an illegal operation on that great humanitarian, and philanthropist, Willie Gates.

we got a bet?

And some are heading for the hills of Noo zilund.

Brave man, installing the bloated '98.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:02 - ID#105111)
your post to MJPL from wee hours of 24th
DBog ( MJPL ) ID#267298:
Sorry, tried posting to you for the past
hour but something was frigged up.

Anyway, If this one gets thru to ya,
I'll take ya up on yer bet. But, just in case
B.C. don't make it home, we have to set some
guidelines, You can't have shot him out of the
skies, You can't be affiliated with anyone else
that might have, you have to promise that you
know nothing about what happend, even though
you don't like the SOB.

Now, for the bet, a "C" note that he makes her
home, you have to give me 10 to 1 odds and yer on.

Whadya Say ?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:05 - ID#153111)
Bill's Big Government problems
Well it sounds like Bill's problem was he put his money into the company while the companies he is competing with put their money into the Belt Way Bandits coffers to finance a ambush on Bill's exposed political flanks.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:06 - ID#227238)
Aurator: Yes, it is a "whale" of an OS. Some 300k - give or take a gig or two. If I could download related hardware patches and updates for 95, I believe I would leave the damn 98 thing alone.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:09 - ID#267298)
Thanks partner,

Now I remember,

Definetly early signs of a mental defect.


(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:11 - ID#153111)
DBog: this is your last chance to clear your good name
I know Klinton has some ethical problems but to only give me 10/1 odds that he will come back is almost unpatriotic! Come on Dbog Klinton is not that bad and you damn well know it! It really should be more like 100 mil to one, think about it no one has talked yet and he has some awesome polling numbers. You don't want people to think your a right wing hate monger do you?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:12 - ID#267298)
Slingshot brought me back to reality,

What about the 10 to 1 odds ?

GO GOLD, hate to be off subject you know.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:13 - ID#105111)
MJPL, aurator, Earl
Aurator: agree that Microsoft product not technically superior to either OS/2 or MAC OS. Bottom line has always been price, availability of tools, market perceptions about ease of use.

Earl: envy and frustration. Industry consensus is that Microsoft is technically inferior in many ways, but has dominated market with superior business acumen. Feels unfair, so some in industry fail to squawk when MS gets it from Justice dept. Should remember about how that weapon always turns in your hand .... give government the power to go after Bill Gates, and eventually they come after you. I'd rather install Linux and live with the pain, than use Reno to punish Gates for the heartburn his junk causes me.

MJPL: you're right, as usual, but don't tell the guys at Kitco I said so.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:16 - ID#340302)
You know the gold market has gone completely to ruin...
...when Kitcoites spend all their time debating the pros and cons of WINDOWS 98.




(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:18 - ID#267298)
Hell, I don't hate no one

cept maybe one or two or possibly even a few more

Anyway, gotta get some sack time,

Night all and oh yes of course

GO GOLD and everything else that is just.....

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:19 - ID#105111)
to get back on subject .... Japan and POG.

Is all that money fleeing Japan going to US? Will it pump US bubble up even more?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:19 - ID#227238)
Slingshot: It's interesting that MS devotes most of its unvarnished advertising effort on promoting its internet position. To my mind, the net is 25% useful and 75% hype. Its greatest contribution is to support us humanoid subsets who, after buying someone's poorly supported hardware, must use the net in vain search for updated drivers and etc.

Tried that this evening. Needed an AGP driver for a video board. On 3 unsuccessful attempts. Data transfer rates of 1-2 kbyte per sec .... to transfer a 10 meg file. Until the system got gliched and locked up totally. ..... I often wonder; what's the total value of software and hardware that is purchased and found totally useless. Bet it's a big number. All too often it's like buying the proverbial "pig in a poke".

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:22 - ID#227238)
Slingshot: The envy thing is directed at Gate's personally. IMO. Less so at MS as a company. Again IMO.

Tell me more about Linux. I've seen the box on the shelf but know nothing of its operation. ...... Are you using it routinely? As in, now?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:22 - ID#153111)
DBog: I'm sorry I can't accept 10/1 odds
No Dbog I'm afraid I can not accept a 10/1 odds on that bet, It would be an affront to the national honor. I'm proud to say that I believe in the basic goodness in mankind as was going to give Klinton a million to one odds.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:26 - ID#105111)
I said something about POG at 00:33. I did. Then someone provoked me, I think it was MJPL. He always ruins everything.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:26 - ID#286234)
ouch, bam, pow
Drunken brawl at Kitco Bar & Grill!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:26 - ID#227238)
Farfel: Gold's goin' up! You betcha! Sis Boom Bah. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:27 - ID#340302)
Even HAGGIS got so bored with all the computerspeak tonight...
...he got the hell out of here as fast as he could.

This forum should be renamed:

BITCO...a forum to discuss computer bits and cyberspace.




(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:27 - ID#207145)
July great seasonal for gold,
You guys better shake it off. Gold is about to rally. Heat, grains, and oil believe it or not, will have gold going on. Yen will be supported by press releases from Japs. Driving season is here. Oil about to rally after selling news ( Opec ) . Hear me now and believe me later, GOLD RALLYS STARTING 1 July. I am serious as a heart attack..........ooooooooooo, my heart......................... .... . . . .

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:29 - ID#153111)
Chickens are coming home to roost

Is the money coming from Japan into our bond market inflationary? HELL YES! Those dollars were suppose to go overseas and stay there. The plan was we send them dollars and they send us Toyotas, now they are sending us back our dollars to blow a bigger bubble in our financial markets.

One thing for sure, when the bubble pops on Wall Street, the US$ will not look as good as it does now and the appeal for US$ overseas will be such that they wont want to take back the dollars later that they are bring back now.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:30 - ID#340302)
Although I would prefer it the forum evolve into....

A forum to discuss hot babes and sleazy chicks from our past.




(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:30 - ID#227238)
Farfel: Or it could be renamed, on more than one occasion: The Blind Cheerleading Squad. With Farfel shakin' the tambourine.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:31 - ID#207145)
Hari Kari over GOLD?
Man this is GREAT sentiment for a break out rally. Men, by gollie i believe youse have all thrown in the towel. Come July 1 i'm buying my but off. ( hopefully not losing it ) .

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:31 - ID#105111)
Linux is free Unix that runs on your PC hardware. The reason it's free is that there are crazy people out there, pure and simple. I've got engineering friends that use Linux in their business that are amazed at the hackers that will provide you support for free. It's their way of tweaking Gates' nose, I think.

Point your search engine at Linux and you will find out far more about it than I could ( or should ) tell you here. I'll give you one typical example: small companies running ISP's ( Internet Service Providers ) in their attics usually use Linux. Runs for months without a crash.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:33 - ID#207145)
To hell with your hardware, I'm talking GOLD here.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:34 - ID#227238)
MJPL: And when the market and the dollar begin to look really shaky, they can be counted on to begin buying anything and everything in sight. America will be on sale. For those who equate rising prices with "inflation", that will be inflationary. ..... Though the inflation is already a done deal.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:34 - ID#340302)
@EARL...oh, earl, you say the...
...sweetest things.

You really are such a dear.



(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:36 - ID#207145)
July 1
If you thought it looked good before, you gotta love it now. July is a great seasonal. Crops are burning up, weather is unbearable. One caution. Keep hairy eye ball on Japan. It could spoil all bets.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:36 - ID#227238)
Slingshot: Linux: Thanks I'll check it out.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:37 - ID#413109)
Check 4 yourself!
It seem there are days when I review my charts, and see things
developing. Today, and this week in particular, seems to be one of
those times.
A week ago I said I see gold and PMs going up, well the week ain't
over yet, and I blieve we should end the week on the up side.
Next week I see a pretty good move up, and possibly the following week
The Markets, meaning the averages- I said a week ago look like they
should test the highs, and then tell us whether they are going to new highs,
or going down. Well the weekly pattern now looks bullish to me and
I would think that after catching their breaths the markets should see
new highs soon. Look for yourselves, chart readers.
I also said that the tech stocks should be the leader again, in either
direction, and lo and behold look what the NASDAQ looks like.
The S&P also. However my pridiction on the cats & dogs has as yet
not materialized. Maybe at a later stage.

How long for this move? My guess about 2-3 months?

The dollar is confusing me. I thought it should start to head down,
as should the bonds, but this too has not taken place. Maybe later?

I only calls em as I sees em.

Cherokee- I agree. The WHY is the BUY!
Grains ,and CRB, which I chart , should start to see a strong up move,
from these levels. Am speaking both short and much longer term.
Crude looks rude, dude.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:39 - ID#153111)
Signing off
I'm going for tonight, anybody that needs so contact me just tell SlingShot. We both work at the BATF Liason office at MicroSoft, just down the hall from Bill's. Its a dirty job but someone has to do it.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:40 - ID#227238)
Farfel: Khong Co Chi. Great skill should be acknowledged. Don't know that I've ever seen anyone else able to beat the gold drum with one hand and shake that giant tambourine with the other. Now if you could just keep your pants up at the same time; I believe you would have an act.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:40 - ID#105111)
@farfel, MJPL
farfel: Don't get me started on sleazy chicks from my past. At least not tonite. I'm still pinin' for my anorexic gold stock and my missing wife.

MJPL: This is complicated by EU, I think, chasing more $ home to US. Common thing to all markets is that, as that vile manipulator Morgan said, they go up and down. All those dollars are chasing securities right now, and leaving gold looking for a home. More $ are coming every month from Japan, to the tune of about 20 billion a month. When do they tire of securities and realize that gold can be had AT COST? Perhaps all the talk about gold fixin' to do the wild thing is more than wishful thinking at Kitco.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:42 - ID#207145)
Gold has been a dog
AARF, This rally will be short and sweet probably ( Jul 23 ) . Heck, in my fund gold is 1.94 per NAV. Last time i had a good run ( 1996 ) , i left at

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:44 - ID#340302) a previous poster just announced...
..."it's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it."



(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:45 - ID#227238)
Slingshot: If the dollar begins to look anemic, it probably won't make a whole lot difference what is happening with Euro. Although if the Euro is strong, it could hasten the dollar's decline. IMO.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:45 - ID#207145)
GOLD, GOLD Farfel, HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You guys need a hardware chat group, cause it's about to go to hell too.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:47 - ID#105111)
sorry about the computer talk. I was provoked.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:51 - ID#207145)
Soon exporters will demand lower buck.
Buck overvalued bigtime. ( 25% ) maybe 30%. Yen will be strengthening in long term, dollar will weaken with the Dow. I don't know when. I still believe we'll have short bout of IN- flation. Otherwise market goes on infinitum.We gots to have HIGHER RATES. Pin for bubble.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:51 - ID#227238)
blooper ( Hari Kari over GOLD?/Farfel: You guys are a great team. What it lacks in originality, it makes up for in redundance. .... Shout the "team theme" long enough, I imagine it just may work. Then again, maybe not.

BTW, I'm not a bear on gold. I'm just not a bull right now. For many reasons. ........ Lookin' at the chart mostly.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:54 - ID#207145)
Earl the pearl cynic,
Don't get too cocky or Farfel will hit you with his $400.00 gold bar. If he dont I will.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:55 - ID#227238)
GC8Q is now up USD 20 cents - $295.30. Must be the cheerleading.
Slingshot: Apologize? For what?.... All of our words put together this evening, would not equal one of Farfel's typical baloney sandwiches.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 02:56 - ID#340302)
@EARL...May the Charts Be With You, My Son...
...although I sincerely doubt they will.



(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:00 - ID#227238)
Blooper: I've read your stuff.

"I still believe we'll have short bout of IN- flation. Otherwise market goes on infinitum" ....... is that the same as "infinity"?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:03 - ID#105111)
As earl says, we've already had the inflation ( printing up oodles of new $ is inflation ) . We've also had price inflation, only its been in securities instead of commodities. If we could figure out why, maybe we could predict when gold is going to recover from this weird slump.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:05 - ID#227238)
GC8Q now up $.30. Farfel is having some effect. Blooper too.
Farfel: I never cease to be amazed at your inability to take a ration of crap. Especially when you are able to dish it so freely.

For example: Your incivil comment to Oldman the other nite. It was smart ass in intent and totally uncalled for.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:05 - ID#340302)
@EARL...just remember, if you don't like...
...the way the gold chart reads, then just turn it upside down.

It always looks a lot better that way.

Enough of this late night frivolity.

To sleep and mournful dreams of gold's demise.



(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:07 - ID#207145)
Earle, what kind of chart
are you loking at? Mine says short term over sold. Rally from July 1 to July 23. I am not rosy on gold all the time, just when seasonality and oversold converge.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:09 - ID#340302)
@EARL...I'll have you know I happen to like Oldman...
...he does one helluva great DOW boogie.



(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:12 - ID#207145)
Turn that map sideways, Your lost.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:14 - ID#227238)
Slingshot: Merely an opinion but I do believe that when the history of this period is finally written; the moving finger will point largely at the fire sale on money that has taken place in Japan since the spring of 1995. It has created a mind set and pattern of behavior that will not change until a cataclysmic event takes place.

IMO, the Yen carry business has done more than just provide virtually risk free profit, it has also recast the way people think about money and value. Since the gold carry business largely preceded it, perhaps it is also a contributing element.

In the meantime, I believe we should be prepared for equity and debt markets to reach levels that we cannot now imagine.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:20 - ID#227238)
Blooper: My chart says gold has been long term oversold since at least the spring of 96. So what? What's been your experience? .... Duh?

Faith: The triumph of hope over experience.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:21 - ID#207145)
I really do think July will be kind to gold. It should be after what it did the other 6 months. Japan is the spoiler that can kick but at any time. Don't take this stuff the wrong way, as we like to carry on infinity.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:22 - ID#207145)
Earl, you talk real BIG
Now if you could only back it up.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:26 - ID#227238)
farfel ( @EARL...I'll have you know I happen to like Oldman.: ..... and some of my best friends are.....

And some folks are just destined to travel life's road with tin ears and brick to keep them separated. ............ Do you ever read your own stuff? And really measure it?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:29 - ID#227238)
Blooper: I take nothing personally. Even when it is personal. .... In the meantime, if we can't "carry on infinity", perhaps we can carry on ...... at least to the first discontinuity. OK?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:30 - ID#340344)
Do I know Chopsticks? Do I *know* Chopsticks?
This just in... A diner in China today opened a fortune cookie,
and the fortune read,
"Girlies, call Beijing 4-5789.
You can have a date any old time."

If biz is good, I bet he stays.

"A girl a day
Keeps the President away."

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:31 - ID#207145)
Listen to yourself posting. I don't take crap off of strangers. Yes you go and i'll do the same. Duh.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:33 - ID#227238)
blooper ( Earl, you talk real BIG ) : If what you say is true; I plead an excess of reading too much Farfel. But no more. It's bedtime. This is keeping my up ....... but not awake.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:36 - ID#207145)
Yeah, he's too optimistic
Maybe we all could use a little dose of that. Goodnight.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:38 - ID#207145)
We just like to scrap too much, But hell, it's fun ain't it?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:44 - ID#207145)
John Disney
I'm tired of fussin with you too John, as I believe you to be a decent man.
I'm not going to take anything bach, but am declaring moritorium, and won't post negatively, regardless. There, now, don't I feel better. Goodnight all, you too John.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:46 - ID#401460)
London Gold

6/26/98 -- 3:25 AM Opening Gold
LONDON ( AP ) - Gold bullion opened today at a bid price of $293.70 a troy ounce, up
from $293.00 late Thursday.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:52 - ID#401460)

6/26/98 -- 2:25 AM

TOKYO ( AP ) - The dollar was trading at 141.94 yen on the Tokyo foreign exchange
market at 3 p.m. ( 2 a.m. EDT ) Friday, up 1.02 yen from late Thursday.

Dave in CO
(Fri Jun 26 1998 03:59 - ID#229103)
@Newtron, Slingshot
Bad enough to be goldbugs, but insomniacs too?

Newtron: Sorry to raise your blood pressure, but thought I should pass on Williams' unbelievable comment. Glad someone outside my house cares. My wife, an Asian who first-handedly experienced martial law, agrees with me on most political issues. When she's not around, I have to log in here to escape the sheep/hog-callers on cable news. I have really appreciated your comments here.

SlingShot: I'm curious about your comment on the "Travelers". Haven't found much info on Klinten's grandfather who, I have read, was king of them all. Zubin Meta is a Traveler? Do you have any pointers to material on this subject? Thanks.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 04:48 - ID#45173)
Dave in CO: which Asian country is your wife from?
My wife's from Taiwan. There is an upside to marshal law: no crime. I mean, except the civil liberties crime the government engages in through its police force, or course. But no one's whacking you over the head with a pipe for crack money.


(Fri Jun 26 1998 05:39 - ID#257148)
The only word you'll ever need...
Erudite? Mois?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 05:49 - ID#185448)
Erudite? Auratora?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:01 - ID#386245)
So you think YOU have problems!!
Our farmers have been going through one of the most devastating droughts in Aussie history. No water, no grass, no crops, no stock feed. And then came the rain, and more rain and more rain. Now the farmers have been wiped out by floods ( especially in Victoria ) . Just saw a farmer on the boob tube. He kept his sheep alive for a couple of years by hand feeding at great expense. 1700 of his 2000 flock have just drowned!!Has been on the land for generations. Said "What's the use??"

When the POG gets you down-- step back a bit and count your blessings.

Go to Indonesia. I have. You'll stop your whining real quickly!!

Oh, sorry Bart. Go gold!!! Going up tonight?? Quick!! ,Somebody call the 'gold plunge team'. Teach them Kitco goldbugs a lesson!!!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:02 - ID#257148)
Now, what is -ve inflation again?
Good morning!

yeah, Erudite, me, like araldite ( glue )

Midwinter's day downunder last Saturday. Planting garlic & Shallots, dressed in shorts. Got so hot I had to lie on banana-lounger, 19 Centigrade. Unusual weather, by Gar. cherokee has some words of wisdom about the crops in N Hemisphere this year. Our Primary agricultural export industries have been especially hard hit by he asian problems.

The NZ Reserve Bank Governor, Dr Don Brash, is charged by statute to keep inflation between 0-3% has admitted that, for the first time ever we are looking at -ve inflation. ( this was the substance of a question I asked the Reserve Bank 6 months or so ago, and was met by incredulity "We've never thought of that )

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:07 - ID#27341)
some humour
little Johnny is getting shorter, : ) .

George_A , a "real" democracy would be nice.

GOLD, do what you will,,,,,,,,,

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:10 - ID#257148)
there we go again, thinking the same darned thing. Will ya geroff my shoulders now?
The NZ economy contracted by 0.9% in the first qurter this year, of that, 0.5% was from contracion in Primary produce ( wood, sheeps, cow-type things ) Much of rest was drop in tourism and supporting industries.

I am watching this country's economy go down the gurgler. Oh yes, those fetid tools of the IMF, Moodies Rating Agency, have been sharpening their incisors over their lates report, widely expected to down -grade NZ Govt Sovereign debt from AA2

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:22 - ID#185448)
Easy question: Vin-flation, works best with an old Bordeaux, decant soigneusement. Put air into a bottle, when debt is rising - et viola!

You see- senivrer is anywhere

clever girl, this Bottleair!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:22 - ID#26793)
Russian problems giving emerging debt a bad name (and lower price

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:25 - ID#26793)
Japanese yen and banking problems hurting all Asian currencies.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:27 - ID#386245)
G'day Auramate
Have been out all day running my businesses ( you know ) . Get home. Pop a VB. Turn on the news. Talk about doom and gloom!!! What ever happened to that 'good news only channel'? Probably went bust for lack of interest. Admit it mate. We Kitcoites LIKE hearing about everyone else's travails!!
"There but for the grace of God go I"--even for the atheists and agnostics among us. Many of the lurkers hereabouts are positively salivating at the humongous ( isn't that a great word ) Kitco misery. Human nature, mate.

Moodies and Standard and Poors ( 'nother good name ) deal out death and destruction without compunction to the myriad masses of 'the unwashed'. Their credit ratings are responsible for huge numbers of individual tradgedies.

Time to cheer up. Gold/silver/copper/nickel are gonna go on a run, mate. I'm agonnna make squillions!!! How do I know?? D & G index near an all-time low. Only one way to go now.

Save me a two tooth mate, and direct me to 'the edge'. cheers, canabeera.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:29 - ID#26793)
Bema gold news

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:30 - ID#257148)
Days of wine and roses
Oui, c'est vrai, bottleair pour toute le monde.

Excuse my french.

sans cesse

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:33 - ID#26793)
High S.A. rand gold prices may spur producer forward sales

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:33 - ID#248180)
Millinnium Coins To Go Ahead

FRIDAY JUNE 26 1998
Commodities 

Millennium coin plan loses support
By Kenneth Gooding, Mining Correspondent
Big mining companies expected to back the launch of a millennium gold coin have decided against the idea, though the project is moving ahead without their help.

It had been hoped that the scheme to sell the coins internationally would lift the gold market out of the doldrums by encouraging the sale of up to an extra 1,000 tonnes of gold.

However, Peter Hambro, the mining financier who is one of the founders of the Millennium Gold Coin Company, said on Thursday sales of 1,000 tonnes of gold this way was "unrealistic". "If we sell 20m to 30m coins we would be doing very well."

At today's price, that means an extra 300 to 450 tonnes of gold might be sold, roughly equivalent to the annual output of the US, the second largest producer.

Mr Hambro said the coins would retail at about $150 each. He has personally financed the scheme so far, together with another well known mining personality, Willie McLucas, former chief executive of Waverley Mining of Scotland.

Mr Hambro said they hoped to raise initially $10m to $15m for the Millennium Gold Coin Company.

Progress so far includes:

Agreement in principle for Experian, part of the Great Universal Stores group and one of world's biggest suppliers of consumer credit information and marketing services, to handle international sales and distribution of the coins;

HHCL, a marketing communications agency with experience of product launches, such as British Airways' new low-cost airline, has been hired for the launch;

Three bullion banks - Deutsche Morgan Grenfell, SBC Warburg Dillon Read and Salomon Smith Barney - have expressed interest in financing stock and work in progress.

Originally, some of the biggest gold groups seemed enthusiastic about the millennium coin. They included Barrick Gold and Placer Dome of Canada, Newmont Mining of the US and Anglogold of South Africa. Robert Champion de Crespigny, chairman of Normandy Mining, Australia's biggest gold group, was asked to report on the potential.

John Willson, Placer Dome's chief executive, said this week: "The group looking at the potential of the millennium coin idea concluded that, in light of all the other millennium projects, it would not be attractive to sponsor that idea."

However, discussions among gold producers, under the auspices of the World Gold Council, were taking place to consider sponsorship of existing gold-based millennium projects that had the potential to raise the profile of gold and encourage gold sales.

Mr Hambro said that, because of the progress made by the Millennium Gold Coin Company since the de Crespigny report was compiled, he was sure some gold producers would find the scheme attractive enough to provide backing.

He hoped the first coins would be on sale in January, initially concentrating on the key markets of the US, Canada, UK, France, Germany and Australia.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 06:37 - ID#257148)
no noose is good gnus
As for the good news channel?

One of my partners offered this gem from Des Deaker, ( apparently ) one of the best sports writers in the country: If you want to be happy for the rest of your life read only the sports pages of the paper, nothing else. For the Sports pages contain great stories centred on the nobility of man. Heroism, selflessness, compassion, competition, the hardships through which great battles are won. Don't read anything else but the Sports pages, says Deaker And, do you know? I think he's right.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 07:00 - ID#257148)
kitcommercial channel.....
Sounds like a lot of BS in that millenium coin story. Some hare-brained idea that gold can be marketed as a mass comodity. Having said that, the Princess Di commemorative silver coin ( CJS- do you know the denomination? ) to be issued in September may trigger a massive British interest in silver. So perhaps gold could be mass-marketed like Ginsu knives....BUT WAIT+++++++THERE's...MORE....
Each purchase of a SOLID GOLD MILLENIUM COIN will receive ABSOLUTELY FREE a newly minted 1/10oz aurator. That's right.... ABSOLUTELY FREE...OUR BUYERS WENT MAD.....

.and we're GIVING a newly minted 1/10oz aurator away FREE with each millenium issue...the 1/10 oz aurator is the smallest denomination in the series from the newest independent sovereign state in the world, auratania....whose independence starts on 1/1/00

notice the symmetry of the numbers. 1/1/00,

auratania will rise phnix-like out of the ashes of the fusty old 20th Century and.... be continued.......

nytol  Teddo

(Fri Jun 26 1998 07:00 - ID#185448)
Now- time to disconnect until mid july.
Office is moving to another place, private habitat too, some lakesidesailingswimming with Mamsahib&theprincipessa.

Dont dig em garlics too deep into the snow!

keep it up!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 07:12 - ID#373284)
Donald_A, Namaste' Is it like the surface of Mars where you feet are
sticking to the pavement here on the Island that is gold is melting........

(Fri Jun 26 1998 07:24 - ID#248180)
Gold $294.50 in London @ 11:00am
Aurator: Why not?
Travel to Asia and Turkey. Gold is for sale on every corner and in every nook and lane. I have not ever been involved in wholesale or retail distribution of PM's. Why do you jest? Seems to me that anything that can be well packaged can also be sold to the masses. Marketing, Advertising and distribution. Abe Lincoln said words to the effect that that if you have something to sell you don't yell down the well. Get on the house tops.

Reminds me a true storey when I was a lad in California. My Dad had a friend in Orange County with a huge pile of manure that he hauled away from all the local dairies that were in Orange County before Disneyland.
He had a problem and called in a marketing man. They packaged the manure and callled it Black Gold, 'Add some to your dirt' The rest is history they made millions from those big piles of Mooh Pooh. So Aurator selling real gold coins should be a lot easier than selling bags of mooh pooh. Yes?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 07:33 - ID#289357)
Hmmmmmmmmmm............Auritania..........a global sovereign state..........this may have some interesting possibilities.

Please start the passport creation agency immediately ( You may publish applications here at Kitco )

I prefer calling the soverign currency auratorius


(Fri Jun 26 1998 07:54 - ID#35571)
Doesn't look like a good day for the DOW. Not good at all. How is everything in Japan?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:00 - ID#35571)
Japanese opera with a French beat

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:08 - ID#45173)
The Machine vs. Conspiracy: hyperinflation example
Why did the German government not act to halt the inflation? It was a shaky, fragile government, especially after the assassination. The vengeful French sent their army into the Ruhr to enforce their demands for reparations, and the Germans were powerless to resist. More than inflation, the Germans feared unemployment. In 1919 the Communists had tried to take over, and a severe unemployment might give the Communists another chance. The great German industrial combines -- Krupp, Thyssen, Farben, Stinnes -- condoned the inflation and survived it well. A cheaper mark, they reasoned, would make German goods cheap and easy to export, and they needed the export earnings to buy raw materials abroad. Inflation kept everyone working.

So the printing presses ran, and once they began to run, they were hard to stop. The price increases began to be dizzying. Menus in cafs could not be revised quickly enough. A student in Freinburg University ordered a cup of coffee at a caf. The price on the menu was 5,000 marks. He had two cups. When the bill came, it was for 14,000 marks.

If you want to save money, he was told, and you want two cups of coffee, you should order them both at the same time.

The presses of the Reichsbank could not keep up, though they ran through the night. Individual cities and states began to issue their own money. Dr Havenstein, the president of the Reichsbank, did not get his new suit. A factory worker described payday, which was every day at 11:00 A.M.: At eleven oclock in the morning the siren sounded and everyone gathered in the factory forecourt where a five-ton lorry was drawn up loaded brimful with paper money. The chief cashier and his assistants climbed to the top. The read out names and just threw out bundles of notes. As soon as you caught one you made a dash for the nearest shop and bought anything that was going. Teachers were paid at 10:00 A.M., brought their money to the playground, where relatives took the bundles and hurried off with them. Banks closed at 11 A.M.; the harried clerks went on strike.

Dentists and doctors stopped charging money in currency and demanded butter or eggs, but the farmers were holding back their produce. We dont want any Jew-confetti from Berlin, a chronicler quotes a Bavarian farmer. The flight from currency that had begun with the buying of diamonds, gold, country houses, and antiques now extended to minor and almost useless items -- bric-a-brac, soap, hairpins. The law-abiding country crumbled into petty thievery. Copper pipes and brass armatures werent safe. Gasoline was siphoned from cars. People bought things they didnt need and used them for barter -- a pair of shoes for a shirt, some crockery for coffee. Berlin had a witches Sabbath atmosphere. Prostitutes of both sexes roamed the streets. Cocaine was the fashionable drug.

The publisher Leopold Ullstein wrote: People just didnt understand what was happening. All the economic theory theyd been taught didnt provide for the phenomenon. There was a feeling of utter dependence on anonymous powers -- almost as a primitive people believed in magic -- that somebody must be in the know, and that this small group of somebodies must be a conspiracy.

When the one thousand-billion-mark note came out, few bothered to collect the change when they spent it. By November 1923, with the dollar equal to one trillion marks, the breakdown was complete. The currency had lost its meaning.

Adam Smith ( George J. W. Goodman ) , Paper Money, 1981

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:13 - ID#373284)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, why don't WE just get rid of the Federal government?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:17 - ID#373284)
I'm telling you the Coward Erect is a dangerous pathetic...

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:21 - ID#373284)
Jane Fonda is a dirtbag..

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:24 - ID#373284)
ah yeah.....................Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:25 - ID#35571)
And then the hyperinflation led to the run up in farm prices in the US which led to the farmers overextending themselves and overproduction led to the subsequent drop in prices and the overextension led to the famrers getting forclosed and the buying the farmers had done put the liquidity into the economy that had nowhere to go since the farmers went bust so it went into the markets and equities boomed during the roaring twenties as the deflaiton set in and the rest is history...

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:29 - ID#347267)
"Gold Forecaster"
Silverbaron or anyone:
Please look at
and give your interpretation. To me looks like we COULD get an up move.
Bollinger bands narrowing, Short term already a buy, Intermediate agittin READY!!?? Whatsayu?? Whaddaya think??

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:30 - ID#45173)
Gollum: The DOW had a tough ride yesterday, it'll be tougher today
The Japanese are in despair. The feeling of the man on the street is fatalistic; they know they are in deep trouble and they know their system, designed to protect the family and its members, not ever single out any member as at fault, to disparage their honor, especially not a highly-respected senior official, will continue to dig them deeper and deeper in. And they know that the world knows this; the currency traders, smelling the scent of big money to be made in a run on a major currency, will lead them and the rest of Asia into oblivion.

So, not a rosy picture, I'm afraid. They know what they need to do -- lower taxes, clean up the banking system, etc. -- but they will not do it now for the same reasons they have not done it for the past eight years. It cannot be done without exposing many to dishonor.

A terrible tragedy of no one's making is unfolding there.


(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:36 - ID#35571)
Such beautiful symmetry the date has, 1/1/00. All ones and zeros a Yin Yang of the calendar dividing the good times from the bad. 1100, It looks binary, a tribute to the cyber age. And it has it's hidden meanings, hidden from the archaic times of machine language programmers hacking away on the Altair bus. The symmetry of Holloween and Christmas, the powers of light and darkness.

Does any one know how Holloween equals Christmas?

Oct 31 = Dec 25

The Yin and Yang equation that expresses it all.

The powers of darkness on one side and the powers of light on the other.

The cyber system with a life of it's own brought into being by the efforts of all those octal programmers. Like some occult golem brought into being with promise of power but seed of destruction.

It must be clear, Octal 31 = Decimal 25.

So who put the hex in hexadecimal?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:39 - ID#45173)
Gollum: Flight capital from failing Asian economies inflates US markets
while deflationary forces build from worldwide overcapacity... Stock market crash triggers deflationary spiral... Great Depression II?

Mike Stewart
(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:46 - ID#270253)
More Technical Updates
The Toronto Mining Issue McClellan Summation Index is rising. ( not much acceleration, but rising )

The New Lows on Tronto mining issues is shrinking, but not yet at the "all clear" zone on 5 or less issues per day. Yesterday, we had 8.

My gold/WG580 ratio was historically oversold last week and has improved since then. ( WG580 is the precious metals index from Worden Brothers charting service )

The Smoothed 20 day rate of change and smoothed 60 day rate of change of the Toronto Gold Index were both extremely oversold last week. They are no longer oversold.

Declines in the Gold Index usually last 8 to 10 weeks before either a bounce or bottom. We are at the end of week 9.

Gold is above the 20 Day moving average.

Bet for a pint of Guinness: John Disney will not see $3.25 Harmony shares on this decline.

FWIW, I am buying some gold shares today. Stop Loss at 5660 on the Toronto Gold Index

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:49 - ID#35571)
In the twenties, as now, the deflaitonary spiral was already making it's lazy circles in the sun before the market crashed. In fact the market crashed precisely because prices can not exist on euphoria alone, at least not forever. When US steel, I think it was, announced big earnings losses the market could no longer continue to delude itself.

Today we have very similar market conditions. The Street is acting like they think this is some ordinary "correction" and will soon enough resume it's upward climb. Eventually they will have a dark epiphamy.

One difference is that today we are largely a debtor nation instead of a creditor and it's going to have some fascinating repurcussions. If I was a cynical man I would tie it all back to the unrest in the mid east and the story of big oil versus western civilization, but that is another story for another day.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:51 - ID#26144)
Tolerant1 Re:Jane Fonda
Do you object to her stand on birth control or ? It' fairly
obvious the world has too many people in it, to the extent that
the population is destroying it ecologically one way or the other. As well, the quality of life for children is seriously reduced the more there are of them - just not enough to go around. Many children die
in poverty every day because of this .....

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:52 - ID#289357)
Mtn Bear (SE)
Looks to me that were due a pop up ( for a trade ) for a few weeks, but that's probably about it.

The direction of the long-term indicator is troubling. I'll get bullish when the long-term XAU indicator goes to extremely oversold and touches the bottom Bollinger band. Until then, I'm only layering in physical purchases - gold is cheap and there is little long-term risk here.

Narrowing of the Bollinger bands indicates a lessening of volatility ( actually standard deviation of prices ) , but doesn't necessarily tell you which way prices will move.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:54 - ID#252391)
EJ on Japanese Dishonor
Again I find you right on the spot, this time relative to the Japanese economic malaise. You say it so well.

Everything is as close to flat going into the NT opening as it can get. I venture that's about where it will all end up, yen,gold silver, etc. The stock market may do a little better. Frankly, while I hate to say it "buy the dips" looks like the right strategy unless 1080 on the S&P breaks down. 10,000 on the Dow before $315 on gold would seem a better bet if the stock markets can rise into Friday's close.

Not that I will particularly prosper with a positive stock market scenario - though I'm going to increase my exposure to that arena. If at the close today they have made a mess out of this week's action, guess I'll stay firmly on the sidelines, and go off now and read some of my favorite bears who have been perdicting a killer bear since S&P 930. That'll cool me off. But skepticism had a chance to rebuild in the last drop, the longer term averages held or have been bounced off of and new highs are scttering about. I'd be more philosophical content with a declining stock market and that's another reason to suspect it will rally. Might be quick, might be the last runup, but I have heard that for years.

Gold has tracked the last 48 hours with the yen to the tee. Bullish consensus on the yen has picked up to 25% after the intervention last week and has probably dropped down to 20% currently - sideways in a band for the first part of next week, no major thrust one way or the other. The Japanese will be given one more chance, but I suspect honor will get in their way and you, EJ, suggest.

Of mixed emotions...
(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:56 - ID#434108)
Silverbaron: long-term XAU indicator
Would you be willing to define/explain ( /examples-? ) this indicator?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 08:58 - ID#426220)

INFLATION, DEFLATION, RATIONALITY is an insightful report made by an international banker. It is a grim report.

Stefan Albrecht opines that "efforts to stabilize the global financial system are going to fail."

"The global liquidity is creating bubble after bubble. Without the

Japanese liquidity, the extreme bubbles in Asia wouldn't have


Mr. Albrecht advocates a PLATINUM BASED Monetary system - which demonstrates many logical merits.

Full report at the following URL - as usual it is necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in word "golden" of the URL before posting it to your Internet locator:

(Fri Jun 26 1998 09:00 - ID#335190)
Broke Yamaichi's final insult, it can't close

TOKYO, June 26 ( Reuters ) - It was the ultimate indignity.

After 100 years as one of Japan's largest and most influential brokerages, failed Yamaichi Securities couldn't entice enough voters to its final shareholders meeting on Friday to vote to close the company.

"For purposes of social responsibility, we shareholders are seeking compensation because of falsification of corporate earnings reports," said Koji Morioka, who heads a group of Yamaichi stockholders that has filed suit against the company in Osaka.

It was found to have as much as 1.5 billion dollars in off-balance-sheet losses hidden in accounts in the Caribbean.

Nozawa further enraged shareholders when asked about Yamaichi's relationship with U.S. stockbroking giant Merrill Lynch, which next week will open a retail brokerage chain out of the failed company's rubble.

"That's another company," Nozawa said, explaining his reluctance to comment.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 09:05 - ID#374204)
tolerant1 & Gollum
I woke up feeling pretty good, but now
that my blood pressure is back to 275/120,

1/1/00? Could the Forces of Darkness be Big Brother?

The line forms to the LEFT, under the FEMA banner.
Be the first on your block to have Bill Klinton
hold you down, kicking and screaming, whilst
Hanoi Jane injects an ID computer chip 2.75 inches
deep into your upper spine.

Due to cost considerations, no anesthetics will be available.
However, you will feel absolutely nothing after the chip is
activated unless WE want you to.

"Better a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." - unknown

"WE WANT you Big Brother." - David Bowie

TGIF. Onward to the new millenium.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 09:05 - ID#20748)
POG volatility is being caused by OTC options expiry, which takes place at 09.30 EDT today.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 09:10 - ID#335190)
Striking PAL pilots return to find few jobs left

MANILA, June 26 ( Reuters ) - Hundreds of Philippine Airlines ( PAL ) pilots, whose three-week strike brought the nation's carrier to its knees, returned to work on Friday to found most of their jobs had ceased to exist.

Uniformed pilots marched on PAL's offices at Manila's domestic airport and logged in their names, but were met by closed steel gates and told to re-apply for jobs.

Airline Executive Vice-president Manolo Aquino said the pilots' decision to return had come too late because PAL had already slashed the frequency of flights by 80 percent and planned to sell most of its planes in a bid to haul itself out of $2 billion in debt.

PAL said the strike had cost up to 200 million pesos ( $4.76 million ) a day, forcing it to sack 5,000 of its staff or more than a third of its total workforce, the worst mass layoff in Philippine corporate history.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 09:24 - ID#288369)
@Question for the traders..............
Does anyone have experience, or some knowledge, of the JP Morgan oil index fund? TIA & bbl.....GO GOLDBUGS!!!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 09:28 - ID#243166)
Midwest Heat
Heat wave will help CRB which will turn gold up before the close. Look for Dow to tank today.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 09:43 - ID#289357)

CCI = commodity channel index, which can be used as a cycle oscillator which is very responsive to divergences between prices and the oscillator value. Here's how it is calculated:

Determine the dominant cycle for the commodity.....In the example of the Gold Forcaster site, it is 28 periods, and the number of periods N for the oscillator is 1/2 the cycle period or N = 14 ( days, weeks, months )

X,t = average price for the period = ( H,t + L,t + C,t ) /3

where H,t L,t and C,t are high, low, and close for the period

PAVG = average of prices for the last N periods = sum of ( X,t ) /N

DAVG = average deviation of the last N periods = ( sum of absolute values of ( X,t - PAVG ) ) /N )

CCI = value of the commodity channel index = PAVG/ ( 0.015 * DAVG )

I don't have any good examples for you on this one - the gold charts shown do not flag the divergences as well as on some other charts.....but you can generally see that when the long-term CCI meets its upper Bollinger Band, it is generally a sell, or when it meets its lower Bollinger Band, it is generally a buy. Watch the CCI and price together - when both are at their lower B.B. it's probably time to buy. The time frame you should watch depends on your personal time horizon. I look at the long-term charts, as I'm not a trader.

Bollinger Bands are generated by using a moving average of the base variable plus or minus 2 standard deviations. For the charts listed, I think they use 14 day moving averages.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 09:45 - ID#289357)

Bollinger Bands are not based on 14 DAY moving averages, but 14 PERIOD moving averages.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 09:53 - ID#45173)
jims: to put it bluntly, the Japanese may see the destruction of their economy
tomorrow as a small price to pay for avoiding dishonor today.

I've been jumping into and out of a few stocks for the last few months after cashing out my mutual funds. Yes, there have been many dire stock market predictions over the years, yet I have resisted the temptation to listen because as much as the internals look less and less attractive, more players keep showing up at the table, cash in hand, with the idea in their heads that there's nowhere else to go to make money safely.

But there are signs that they are starting to worry and, at the same time, the rate of increase of players arriving is slowing. I know mutual fund managers who are worried and individual investor-cheerleaders of the DOW who are taking action on their new worries. Lowered EPS reports keep coming in, adding to the negative vibes. I am convinced that two weeks into July after the sales and profit numbers are added up, these same companies that are surprising Wall St. with lowered Q2 earnings reports now will surprise themselves. Their lowered forecasts will not have been low enough.

I expect the DOW to go lower today, perhaps a lot lower.


(Fri Jun 26 1998 09:53 - ID#373284)
Beamer, Namaste'
I vehemently object to Jane Fonda because I believe her to be a traitor. Regarding birth controlI believe the subject to be so broad in scope that it could not be addressed with any sense of dignity without bringing many other spheres of thought into the discussionthis would obviously take several hundred pages in order to do the topic justice.

Birth controlis a battlefield where mankinds will and God collideI choose not to address this topic...perhaps...someday...if you arrive on the Island that is Long we could take up the conversation over a cold beer and a few shots of tequila...

(Fri Jun 26 1998 09:57 - ID#373284)
Tantalus, Namaste'
Don't worry...their kind will never win the good fight.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:03 - ID#35571)
What's this?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:04 - ID#35571)
I'm gonna keep my hands off the knobs today so we can get a good Friday reading of whut's happenin.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:05 - ID#45173)
Gollum: The US as debtor vs creditor in a deflationary depression
No matter how I look at it, it seems to me that while cash may be king in a coming deflationary depression, as in all others, cash denominated in dollars may be a big loser. Perhaps I hold cash reserves in euros? Sheesh!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:08 - ID#255226)
I'm going to be gone for a couple weeks. I offset this morning my gold shorts from 300 at 294 and my short silver from 543 at 531. If Dec silver should get below 4.90 it will be a good buy but you may have to risk up to 20 cents intra day. Yesterday I bought Sept SnP at 1139.50 with stops at 1138, I think we're in for a major advance and will hold into mid/late July.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:17 - ID#426220)
THE FIAT "K" WAVE - by Mike Sheller
The inimitable and venerable Mr. Astrological Investor has produced another essay of invaluable insights.

Mr. Sheller comments "The societies of the world are now spiritually and
culturally bankrupt. History demonstrates that economic bankruptcy is never far behind such a condition."

"This condition has been arrived at, in great part, through
the power of government fiat over the citizen's money.
Wherever Fiat money is defended, more rational voices
must be raised in protest."

Furthermore, he suggests to Fed Chairman:

"It would not be in any way too much to expect that a brilliant free
market thinker and economist such as Federal Reserve Board Chairman
Alan Greenspan would not see his opportunity to steer the economic
ship of state through the dark seas of deflation at the trough of the K Wave with the simplest antidote and preventive - lots and lots of money and credit."

All of Mike's recommendations to Greenspan may be seen at the following URL - as usual it is necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in word "golden" of the URL before posting it to your Internet locator:

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:17 - ID#254269)
Haggis; Thanks for your 1.04 , hope you had fun digging

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:23 - ID#254269)
Four Things To Be Thankful for ;
1. Good health ( it is more valuable than gold )
2. Good friends ( especially those at Kitco ) .
3. The internet ( it just may be the thing that saves the world from the
politicans, the press and the bureaucrats ) .
4. Bart Kitner ( the man deserves a medal )

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:29 - ID#432112)
Are you planning to hold those positions through the middle of July?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:29 - ID#288244)
Are you planning to hold those positions through the middle of July?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:30 - ID#254269)
Dirty Little Wall Street Secret Exposed on Page 1 of today's WSJ; "Wall
Street Brokers Press Small Investors to hold IPO Shares". Big Institutions can cash out quickly but small investors are encouraged to hold through "thick and thin". Brokers get hit with penalty bids. Conflict of interest for brokers.
Interesting read.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:33 - ID#45173)
Rockwell to Cut Workforce by 10%
"Rockwell International Corp. is expected to announce that it will
cut its 48,000-strong workforce by 10 percent due to slow growth
in its industrial automation business, caused in part by Asia's
economic turmoil, and changing technology in its semiconductor

More warming of the Mt. DOW snow cover: Asia crisis is contributing to US unemployment.


(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:34 - ID#432112)
Unfortunately, that is old news.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:38 - ID#35571)
The depression hit the US a lot harder than it hit the European countries. As a creditor nation it had the most to lose as the eventual inflations took place to get things going again.

This time it is we who are the debtor. As the dollar devalues it will be the holder of US securitys who won't be getting as much back in buying power as the amount of blood, sweat and tears they originally paid for them.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:39 - ID#432112)
@ EJ
Asia contributing to Manufacturing Unemployment. The poor factory workers who thought they could go to work for McDonalds may be in for a rude surprise. Mickey D announced planned layoffs. I understand that for the first time ever, a Big Mac is more expensive in New York than in Tokoyo.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:43 - ID#255226)
Since I'm in the SNP at an also no risk position I plan on holding. I'm flat the metals right now, if I caught a low risk entry on a spike down I would hold.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:46 - ID#327123)
Another new 52 week low by RANGY this A.M.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:47 - ID#432112)
Sounds safe enough. I don't really expect stocks to tank until Oct. Although we could be surprised.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:49 - ID#252391)
More good calls . . will miss your thoughts during your trip.

To others . . I'm beginning to think that we as a group are just too smart, to well informed. The blind are making money in the stock market while precious metal investments tread water at best.

I following APH and am going to buy some stock - traditional money making, uptrending, popular, trendy, equities.

Dow 10,000 before Gold $315.

I'll keep a toe in this camp in case I'm wrong though I think if the stock market crashs metal stocks will go with it . . so what does it matter.

I mean the obsurdity of it: Silver at Comex down 800K oz to near all time lows and the stuff falls five cents. Not till the dollar peaks will gold shine.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:50 - ID#29048)
An old (good) Kitco poster turns up at SI - "Vieserre"

(Fri Jun 26 1998 10:55 - ID#432112)
Clinton/China Connection
My bet is that after Clinton returns from China, we'll see stronger support for the Yen. Our current trade imbalance cannot withstand a Chinese devaluation without creating political problems for Clinton. Congress would love to see that. Supporting the yen will make it easier for auto manufacturers ( & therefore the Union ) . A big play for Clinton, I think.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:03 - ID#187109)
*thanks for the best wishes*
As Organ would say: Thanks Greybeards of Kitco ( ! )
I am getting more grey in my beard daily....... ( ugh ) ....
( btw ) ..........Can anyone say: A-Z-U-C-A-R... ( ? )
go baby go! buy me more

go .........hmmmmmmmmmm metals?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:03 - ID#432112)
@ jims
Gold stocks are scary in the short run. I'm laying in physical. The stock will turn up after POG firms at a higher level. Probably after the first of the year. Then they'll stay good for 2 to 5, unless the global economy tanks.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:06 - ID#210235)
@Interesting, Avalon
I've been hit up by two brokers just in the past couple of months to take part in IPO's ( a select few clients will be able to get a few shares each yadayadaya ) . Could this be signaling perhaps a softening of their market and desire to spread the risk around to the little guy?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:14 - ID#432112)
@ Jaundiced
Anytime the "little guy" gets into the market deep, you can expect a dump. Mutuals hold the real little guy's money though. It's the big movers that rule, and who'll profit from the coming correction ( crash ) .

Steve in TO__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:15 - ID#209265)
SlingShot et al.: installing Windows98 . . .
I have an ironclad rule whenever Microsoft releases new software. I don't even try to install it until at least 6 months after it's official release, and I check that the CD or floppies are recent issues.

Microsoft always releases software before it's completely debugged. They essentially use the people who buy the latest thing as soon as it comes out as a gigantic testbed- and find their most cryptic bugs faster than they ever could themselves.

Windows95 was exactly the same way when it was released. I was talking with a medical database developer who installed Win95 as soon as it was released. His entire system locked up as soon as he tried to run his program under the new operating system. It took him 6 weeks to find out that it was related to a bug in the operating system and not the compatibility of his software.

As a developer he was able to call Microsoft's special tech. support line, and when he reported the bug, they said other people had found the same bug, and it was already corrected in the latest build ( what a useless way to spend 6 weeks : )

They then told him they would send the latest build of Win95 on a floppy set ( about 40 floppies! ) He asked why they wouldn't send him a CD. Well- said the techie, they hadn't sold out their current supply of already-produced CDs, and they weren't scheduled to do a pressing for a little while. Hundreds of thousands of retail customers ended up with these buggy CDs.

Guys- take it from me, and from our sysop here at the U. of TO. He's the one who told me to do this: *don't buy a new MS operating system until six months after the release date.* My conversation with the developer just confirmed what he said. This means that you should be buying Windows98 sometime in December- if you're determined to use Win98 instead of a real operating system like Windows NT or Linux.

When you do buy it, check the sub-version number and date of the CD, you might be buying a 4-month old disk, and you'll be back in bugland if you do that. This applies to all MS software including applications. For example, I still remember how Word for Windows 2 wasn't fixed until version 2.0c - that was one bug that affected us.

- Steve

(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:16 - ID#255217)
jims, your 10:49
Sigh ..., your logic makes sense; perhaps Kitco is just TOO sophisticated! I can understand your feelings. I just cannot even THINK of buying something like MSFT or KO, though. It goes against everything I have believed for the past 20 years. I am SO tired, though, of hearing the turn is just around the corner. Or, just a little longer til G&S go to the moon. I'm weary of platitudes. Reality is stark.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:18 - ID#432112)
@ Hold off on Win98
Good Call! Been there done that!

Mike K__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:27 - ID#153283)
New found speed at golden-eagle (-en)
I read a comment here last week regarding how slow the golden-eagle site had become. I agreed with it.

This morning for some strange reason, I decided to turn Java on.

Bang, Zoom - golden eagle loads like lightning!

I thought it was a slow ISP all along, maybe I had the computer hamstrung.

Can any of the computer folks confirm or deny Java's impact?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:27 - ID#254269)
Prometheus; it seems to indicate a "two tier" market where the big funds get
some degree of preferential treatment. I was not aware of the practice
( guess I'm just naive about some things ) . You may want to get hold of the article. Sorry I cannot post it electronically.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:33 - ID#333126)
mike_k (re: browsing)
your increased speed is more likely due to the golden-eagle site being in your webbrowser's cache rather than any effect of Java being turned on ( Java should actually slow down the download )

try flushing your cache and see if the reload is any faster with Java. ; )

John Disney__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:35 - ID#24135)
You tire easily..
Bloomer ..
Maybe you're tired of fussin with
me ..
But I aint tired of fussin with
you ...
And Ill take my Korean war MIG
with Natasha over your f-16
with JANET anyday.

John Disney__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:38 - ID#24135)
Hold it ..
Tom ..
How about $3.5 on Harmony .. Im
starting to weaken.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:39 - ID#329186)
Help anyone ( password for 24 hour gold
tried varoius URL's for POG but get this password ? I have tried without any no luck and then with Chat handle & password ..can anyone help please



Steve in TO__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:41 - ID#209265)
Mike Sheller, Squirrell, Grizz, and all you others . . .
who've been talking of using Au & Ag coins to buy things. You can't do that right now. You're premature- it's not the right time, but your time will come.

You're forgetting Gresham's Law: "Bad money drives out good money."

The public knows real PM coins are better than paper and base metal currency- I've confirmed that in conversations. But the public also knows that PM coins should be hoarded, not spent, and for that reason they're not liquid at the moment. The only person who will take a PM coin from you is the person who wants to take it out of circulation by hoarding it himself. He knows it would be hard to spend, and the person who won't take it from you knows it would be hard to spend too- and he doesn't happen to want a gold or silver coin for himself at the moment ( fool that he is : )

It's kind of like holding your fire until the right time. People spend their best money last, except for the occasional masochist who wants to be left with nothing of value for his own strange reasons. This means that people will not circulate PM currency as long as paper and base metal currency can be traded for goods and services, so you have to wait for a fiat currency failure ( i.e. for a situation to arise where the average person will not accept "dollars" or "yen" or "pounds" or whatever ) before you will be able to use your coins.

Let's have some discussion on this Kitcoites- git out yer flamethrowers : )

- Steve

(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:41 - ID#45173)
@Argent, jims & GoldnBoy: EJ's informal stock investor survey
These are the initials of friends I spoke with today:

MP: broker said get out of mutual funds and put money in bonds for time-being. Market will go down

SC: is selling mutual funds today on hunch the market will crash, but not sure where to put his dough

JB: will stay in but is not sure if it's the right thing to do

AS: out this week except for a few high techs, keeping cash

CB: out, mostly in cash and just bought a little gold

These are all friends who, like me, were heavy into the stock market. I'm with GoldnBoy on gold physical.


(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:43 - ID#333127)
to Prometheus
Did the IPO's go up?????

John Disney__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:45 - ID#24135)
Support the Rand ??
To all ..
If the US is trying to prop up the
rand .. it must be because they just
figured out that the gold mining
cost in RSA just dropped another 20
per cent because of the rand slide.
And the US mines are now even LESS
Im in dollars anyway with
buy orders in at 5.60/5.65 on the
rand. They may have tripped today.
Hope so.
(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:45 - ID#434108)
A Losing Game :" The Flood This Time"
Did you see the url that was provided here, several days ago ( -I believe by Cherokee ) ) , of one market student/reviewer/analyst/expert, and his rather detailed review of why the Middle East raised oil prices/oil embargo -etc., in the 1970's....?

On behalf of clarifying the real threat to western civilization
-- corrupted money & banking systems by governments --, I, for one, do not believe that the threat lies in the hands of 'big-oil',
nor the 'middle-east', etc.

For example, it is my understanding that the sharply higher
prices for oil in the 1970's, the OPEC oil-embargo, etc.,
were responses to the U.S. dollar's depreciation/devalution,
which was beginning to accelerate, especially after
the gold-window was closed in 1971. After that, the
U.S. dollar, the world's reserve currency, was completely severed/de-linked from gold backing & convertibility.

And that is the root of the problem - period . !
It has led to a world community of national governments
who are unaccountable, and without restraint. Whenever
they hear the siren call of special interests, the lure of
expediency ....they time & again knuckle under to the political
pressure of the moment -- and ... "prime the pumps" ...
( -the money & credit pumps, not the oil pumps ) .

In the 1970's, the oil producing/exporting nations, had been
continuing to sell a real asset, oil ( -taken from the ground )
... ( -similar to gold, a real asset taken from the ground ) ; but they were expected to continue selling it, exchanging it, their oil;
for a less & less real-asset - in fact - for an unreal asset
-- depreciating U.S. paper dollars, backed by nothing ...
( - &/or, created out of thin air ) .

This was no longer the same U.S. dollar that the oil producers
had originally agreed to exchange their barells of oil for,
at $3.00/bbl. each.

This was a "new" dollar, no longer backed by gold,
nor convertible to it....a depreciating, increasinly suspect
U.S. paper dollar.....even though it was continuing to be used
as the world's reserve currency, the monetary unit of international trade & commerce.

And so the oil producers were entirely justified,
at insisting - "embargoing" - for the necessary leverage to insure
a "new", higher price for their oil. ... A price that would
compensate them for the loss of purchasing power,
of the depreciating, wasting, less-than-real dollars ... that they were
receiving for their real asset oil.

Surely, as sane businessmen, that should at least be expected
to want to survive economically, viably; and to at least
continue to break-even, or hold their own, baased on previous contractual agrreements of compensation.

A good argument can be objectively made that the oil embargo of the 1970's, was a symptom -- an early crisis -- an example -- of what
happens when politicians take control of a nations money,
divorcing it from gold-backing & accountability, and
depreciating it for political expediency.

And so too are the current crisis in SE Asia, and the continuing,
spreading world 'flood' -- a world-wide crisis
of economic uncertainty and instability.
And all of this spreading human misery...can be laid at
the door of corrupted money & banking practices, and
the depreciating, manipulated currencies which they spawn.

As more & more nations currencies sink, so too will their economies. Like veritable falling dominoes, each will be taken down in turn, drowning in the flood that springs from a
corrupted international monetary system, based on a U.S.
paper dollar & artificial credit.... with no gold backing,
no gold convertibility, and no accountability.

Without the only internationally trusted, accepted,
historically proven standard of value & medium of exchange
- gold - without this life-boat, this healing hope for the disintegrating international economy -- the cancerous, root
cause of the unfolding debacle --money systems unbacked by gold -- will continue to consume, take down, and drown...
the gloabl economy.....nation by nation.

After the gold-window was closed in 1971, the last vestige of
restraint & accountability on the powers that be,
was severed/eliminated.

From then on, the depreciating, wasting asset knon as the
U.S. dollar would be backed by nothing but
'the full faith & credit' of a politically motivated, corrupted
U.S. government, including its corrupted fractional reserve,
federalized, central-banking system.

These powerful institutions have, for the sake of
political expediency, favoritism, and international
economic & trade hegemony, insured that their
policies would dominate.... the world economy.

For several decades, all international banking, currency,
trade & commerce agreements, and international alliances,
have been orchestrated by narrow political interests.
These special, powerful interests are dependent on the continued acceptance and use of the the U.S. paper dollar -as the
reserve-asset and monetary unit for world commerce & trade.

The powers that be, have remained obligated to -- and are now
locked into - have-ing to continue -
the depreciating-currency and artificial credit game.
Prime the money pumps, and move the credit rescues faster
& faster.... from one ailing national economy to the next...
it is still a losing trying to pump out the inrushing, onrushing water from inside the hull of the Titanic.

And the U.S. dollar, continues to lead the world, into this
insane game of political expediency, at the cost
of sacrificing economic stability and world prosperity.

As billions & billions more, of U.S. dollars & dollar-credits,
are produced per week, and perpetrated upon a gullible, naive,
and misled world community of nations and peoples, the
resulting 'deluge & flood',
is beginning to become apparent, and unavoidable.

First becoming apparent with the chain-reaction currency crises
and deflationary depressions of SE-Asia, the international
economic flood is spreading - more recently to nations such as Japan, and Russia, and to So. America.

The seeds of the spreading world monetary & economic crisis,
have been planted, and their diabolical garden of monetary
corruption and manipulation, tended carefully, for generations.

Despite the camouflage & ruse of one "strong" currency
rising against another, until it then takes its turn,
to turn weak, against the next "strong" one ....
the truth is - that all currencies are weak,
and all are sinking..... an unfolding, unavoidable, on-rushing world-wide deluge....

Depreciating floods of paper currencies and mushrooming credit
creation, whether by the haves to have-nots, or by the haves to
each other -- cannot prevent, solve, or stave off for long...
the inevitable collapse of economies & governments, that have evolved for generations, out of faulty money & credit systems to begin with.

Ominously, the ensuing flood of economic, political & human misery
has become an uncontrollable deluge that threatens the very
foundations of civilization.

What is necessary, at this late stage of the rapidly
deteriorating game bold, courageous leadership,
nationally & internationally; as well as the essential 'glue' of
sufficient numbers of informed, committed citizens of the
freedom-loving peoples of the world....
who all realize that we are all in this mess, - this flood -

In my humble opinion, it is not 'big - oil', nor OPEC, nor the
the middle east, no any particular scape-goat, not even
deceiving, corrupted governments with
centralized banking systems built on legalized counterfeiting...... no even these wayward institutions are not the real threat that
ultimately threatens civilization.

As 'Pogo' said it: we have met the enemy and he is us.
And who was it who said: all it takes for evil to triumph,
is that good men do nothing.
And perhaps we should throw in "ignorance & greed", too.

Ultimately, our corrupted, wishful thinking governments and
faulty money systems will either reform and rebuild, or they too,
will topple into the ensuing flood.

If the world-wide hemorrhage of this ensuing flood of wasting, depreciating currencies, is to be stopped, and healed,
the powers that be are first of all going to have to get
honest... nation to nation, and to their 'electorates'.

They are going to have to bite the bullet, and tell the truth:
...and simply admit...that they have lost control of the
corrupted money & credit systems, that are the collapsing
foundation of the global economy we live in today.

They will have to admit that they have become nothing more
than the blind...leading the blind.

When sufficient numbers of honestly informed, and civilized,
men and women, insist that their governments establish a ...
a "Noah's Arc" .... of a gold-based, gold-convertible,
international monetary & credit system;
the deluge will be survived, and the flood will subside.

Until then, practice your 'swimming lessons',
and stock-up your 'life-boats'....
the "Titanic" is going down.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:47 - ID#35571)
The time has come to speak of many things, of sticks and shells.....

There is a strong and intimate tie between oil, gold, the dollar and now the
Euro. Oil is the lifeblood of modern western civilization. Unfortuneatly the
lands that lay over the largest oil reserves are not the lands where those who
hold the great political and economic seats of power reside.

Oil has to be paid for. As the west's ever increasing and unquenchable thurst
for oil grew it became apparent that unless something were done to recycle the
wealth traded for oil before long the world would be owned by a few desert
chieftains. Something had to be done. Something not only had to be done but
needed to be continued to be done. Just building a few mediterranian casinos
and cultivating rich tastes among the chieftains wouldn't hack it.

A great deal of wealth had already been transferred in the form of gold backed
securities. They were taken off the gold standard. The chieftains claims on gold
became just paper. The price of gold in terms of barrels of oil was raised just
in case the chieftains might want to buy gold.

It became in the west's best interests that there be continual unrest in the mid
east, because that raised the demand for high priced armaments. When a rougue
leader threatened to run amok, he was trimmed back, but never eliminated.

With the collapse of the cold war a great source of the polarization needed to
fuel unrest became unusable. As a temporary soltion the dollar strength relative
to oil has been allowed to rise. The mideast continues to accumulate wealth
however and great numbers of dollars.

The west needed a way to diminish the value of those accumulated dollars just as
it needed a way to diminsh the value of the accumulated gold. Once enough of
the gold reserves have been returned to the west I believe the dollar will be
devalued and all this pointing of fingers at the yen is a pointing of fingers
away from the desert.

So now we prepare to play the game again with the Euro and to seek new sources
of polarization. China of course is one of the last bastions of communist
idealogy of any great import.

It is all a very big and a very dangerous game, but then life has always been
a game played in the jungle. The jungle plays for keeps and one either wins or

The real story isn't gold. It may have been at one time, but not any longer.
If every ounce of gold were to disappear from the face of the earth, the beast
we call modern civilization would live on. If all the barrels of oil were to
disappear the beast would die, and billions would die with him.

The story is about getting that great narcotic the beast is addicted to while
not giving up their power. Many lives have been consumed by the struggle and
many more, I am afraid, are yet to be. So many with their eyes closed and
fighting for issues that had nothing to do with the real issues.

Such is life.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:47 - ID#26467)
FWIW lowered stop from 18 11/16 to 18 9/16.Initial objective
16 1/2 and possibly to 14.Next February in single digit.
Barrick will give you a double whammy for your buck if the general
market goes down as well.
General market down till second third week of July and a very
strong rally till the third week of August.New parabolic highs.highs
Coffee is making a seasonal and multi cyclical lows from
the middle of July till the first week of August.
Could be a terrific play with La Nina in the offing.
Have a good day and happy trading.

John Disney__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 11:55 - ID#24135)
The Greenback
to all ..
the dollar doesnt seem to realize
that it's 25 % overvalued.

to cyclist..
Although I hate Barrick .. why
not short Homestake .. Barrick
is hedged the better of the two
I believe .. and that may delay
its inevitable demise. Homestake
could go through the floor if gold
comes off hard.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:00 - ID#210235)
@Looks like a new alliance will replace OPEC

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:01 - ID#317193)
I think your initial target is better. PMSP

Unless offspring has revised guess stay with original plan. I think I can get Oct 99 contracts around $300 soon. Might be to greedy though.

If Harmony goes to $3.50 it should make $3.25 or $3.00. The selloff to get to $3.50 means even the most diehard goldbugs are moving out of gold stocks.Yes?


(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:02 - ID#210235)
I haven't taken up this form of gambling yet. It's just been offered.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:06 - ID#402151)
Clinton blackmail

Has anyone considered that the Chinese are blackmailing Bill? They know all there is to know about his campaign finance scandal. There's no other good reason why he's making this election- year faux pas.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:07 - ID#333127)
to Prometheus,
I thought they had gone public and were being traded, misunderstood. I quit my broker years ago when what I was offered went down.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:10 - ID#210235)
@Top Japanese diplomat sees Japan in financial war
to avoid international takeover by the IMF.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:12 - ID#333127)
to J. Disney
You must be bullish on gold if you believe the dollar is 25% overvalued??

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:13 - ID#26793)
@Gollum: some good insights on the gold-oil link. Dated but still valid.

Crystal Ball
(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:13 - ID#287367)
Get out your wallet
Blue light special-- DROOY is $2.00/share !!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:13 - ID#242303)
IMHO Clinton's visit to China is..
a reward for the Chinese for not devaluing the Yuan. Doing so would have triggered off more crises in SE Asia.

A businessman friend who has a factory in China says everyone, from the busines community to government officials were not happy that China did not devalue, in the wake of SE Asia and yen currency collapse, makes Chinese made goods expensive to export- but that there was intense lobbying by international financial interests for China to be the Good Guy and hold HK dollar and Yuan steady.

Now China gets the payback....

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:16 - ID#342315)
goldfevr re post
A real cut to the bone. Great work. a follow up is expected, but I wouldn't know how to. Thanx, Charlie

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:22 - ID#227238)
Gollum @11:47: A very thought provoking post. ...... Sorry to say, I don't understand the mechanism, by which, ME gold holdings would be returned to the west.

In response to your thoughts re the price of gold per barrel of oil, I punched up a chart of that ratio. It's been on something of tear since Nov of 97. From a double bottom in 97 of 144 to a recent high of 228. At the moment it's off the high, this week, at around 212.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:28 - ID#243166) -- 11:45 Post
Extremely excellent post.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:37 - ID#35571)
Thank you for the link. A very interesting read.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:39 - ID#289357)

The Romans debased their aureus, denarius, antoninius...
The Byzantines debased their solidus ( bezant ) ....
The Spanish debased their maravedi ( dinar ) .....
The French debased their Franc.....
The Germans debased their Mark....

and on and on.... it always works the same way, given enough time.

And now everybody has debased their money, and it is ALL money for nothing, from nothing. Sooner or later the system will come unglued.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:44 - ID#207145)
Blood in the streets'
Time to take small positions in oil and gold, now that we have lost our nerve. Yen due a PR bounce. Dollat due a mild rest. Markets go also until July 23, when we sober up abput Japan and get over bought.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:44 - ID#35571)
In simplest terms convince ME that gold is no longer of monetary value and will only continue to go down in price as central banks sell it. Hopefully ME banks and other holders will sell in return for strong dollars. Once the west has recovered as much gold as they can in this way
the dollars will somehow become no longer worth as much.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:47 - ID#207145)
Drought, hot weather,
Will thaw out the CRB. Bounce almost here. Brent light sweet ready to bounce after API the next few wednesdays. Grains will burn up.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:47 - ID#227238)
Donald: Thanks for the URL to Ken Coleman. He makes a compelling case for much of what is discussed here everyday.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:47 - ID#287129)
Your quote ( of Mr. Sheller's comments ) was profoundly disturbing, yet profoundly accurate:
"The societies of the world are now spiritually and culturally bankrupt. History demonstrates that economic bankruptcy is never far behind such a condition."

I believe I've witnessed more compassion on this newsgroup in one week than I normally see in the business world in one year. While it is a compliment to the character of people posting here, it is a tragic commentary on how mainstream society has indeed come close to spiritual bankruptcy.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:50 - ID#207145)
La Nina positive for gold,
As El Nino was bad for CRB and gold. I am recommending 20% position on Tuesday at close for oil and gold. Very cautious with little room on stop.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:55 - ID#286230)
The bottom may arrive in 1999

Gold mining financings going from bad to

Mining Reporter The Financial Post
The flow of financing for gold mining, already dismal, will go completely dry over the next six
months, the chairman of Franco-Nevada Mining Corp. predicted yesterday.
Franco-Nevada and its sister, Euro-Nevada Mining Corp., are pursuing several royalty deals
in their self-described role as "banker of last resort" to the gold industry, Seymour Schulich
told shareholders at the companies' annual meeting.
The deals, if consummated, would be worth between $100 million and $200 million apiece, he
"What we need is for the new issue market [for gold producers] to shut down completely,"
Schulich said in an interview. "I think we are three to six months away."
Franco- and Euro-Nevada specialize in acquiring royalty interests on gold mines and oil and
gas properties. Their main asset is royalties on production at Barrick Gold Corp.'s Betze-Post
gold mine in Nevada.
The companies have $835 million in cash and no debt.
Although the steady decline in gold prices in most of 1997 and 1998 may push more miners
to seek financing from the two companies, they have struck only one major royalty deal over
the past year. That was a 5% royalty on the Stillwater platinum-palladium mine in Montana, for
which Franco-Nevada paid US$36 million in March.
John Ing, president of Maison Placements Inc. in Toronto, agreed most gold producers may
soon find it impossible to raise money for their projects, but noted that depressed gold prices
also make it more difficult for Euro- and Franco-Nevada to find projects worth investing in.
"The problem with a US$300 gold price is that it makes all but the rare, world-class deposit
Recent gold financings have been few: a successful $95.4-million offering of common shares
by Agnico-Eagle Mines Ltd. in May and a US$120- million issue of secured notes by
cash-strapped Royal Oak Mines Inc., which closed on Wednesday.
Pierre Lassonde, president of both Euro- and Franco-Nevada, told shareholders about 70%
of the world's gold mines are operating unprofitably at current prices.
"It can't go on forever," he said.
Shares of Franco-Nevada ( FN/TSE ) closed yesterday at $27.20, up $1, while Euro-Nevada
shares ( EN/TSE ) finished at $19.40, up 30.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:56 - ID#207145)
Patterson energy is a driller & gas play. Hasn't lost a cent today. 9 three quarters. 2 year high of 40, two splits since Oct. Gold and oil are cheap. I smell inflation in the making. No deflation yet. What a surprise to 1 and all.

Mike K__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:56 - ID#153283)
Ravenfire - Java
I've got the cache down to a minimum and hadn't been to the golden-eagle site since Tuesday. Also had been to another site site that started Java earlier today, so I didn't suffer the delay in opening the program. I'll leave Java on for a few days and see what happens.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:58 - ID#210235)
@Interesting global intelligence update
on oil. Perhaps an "oil shock" is in the works? This isn't yet on their website, must have been posted by someone on their EMail list. There may be a creeping realization that whatever needs to be done to bring up the price of oil will be done. Did you notice that Venezuela is in the soup now - from a couple days back, they need an emergency couple of billions because their oil revenues are coming up short. Lots of incentive here to collaborate, and not just in the Middle East.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:58 - ID#233199)
@GOLDFVR 11:45 RE: Authorship
Goldfvr - I'm not clear on the authorship of the article you posted earlier.

Could you clarify please? Who actually wrote it? Was it you? It seems the Kitco automatcic copyright was attached.

I'd like to copy that piece for others but I don't want to violate copyright ( especially unintentionally ) .



(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:58 - ID#227238)
Gollum: Ah yes, convince them of gold's lack of utility. That was the only course I could visualize as well but rejected it as futile. Given the ME's long history of recognizing gold's intrinsic value. ........ Short term political issues may confound the basic assumption but the underlying value system will probably remain unchanged. IMO.

Reversing the earlier ratio; 1 oz. of gold will presently purchase about 47 barrels of oil. Down from the late 96 high of about 70 barrels per oz. of gold. A long, long way from the OPEC desired ratio of 12 or 13.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:59 - ID#37292)
Everybody's got a good day coming

OK...I can't stand it any longer...I have tried to mind my own business and let you guys worry about nit pickin' stuff like fundamentals, but the bottom line answer to the question you have all asked in one form or another ( "...When is gold going to go up?" ) is -- are you ready for this? ---gold won't go up in anything more than quick trading rallies of a couple of bucks by the floor traders until the last tired diehard long throws in the towel.

Forget trying to over-analyze whenever somebody in third world trivialand sneezes, or the stock market in Basutoland ( or some other obscure place ) is shaken by a currency rout, or sabrerattling in deep dark jungles, or nuclear threats in some obscure desert. All important stuff but totally irrelevant to the POG. Barefoot and shirtless peons dredging Amazonian rivers with primitive psuedo-tools can tell you the price of gold twice a day by listening to the drums. They don't need 4 grand worth of high tech machinery on their desk, as I have at this moment, to realize that the trend is, and has been, down for years.

But, there is a turnaround coming -- when and only when those who bot the yellow fever at 600+ decide to take that trip to the mother country and cash in for some travel money. If you don't, your heirs will.. Meanwhile, enjoy the trading rallies to 310, and sell the living pookie out of it. Have a nice day.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 12:59 - ID#207145)
I'm no hopeful optimist, haven't been in gold,
Haven't lost money ( in gold, have in drillers ) .

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:04 - ID#35571)
Once again
And once again we come to that golden moment of the day when the goblin dost oft appear. Will he be long? Will he be short? Will he say in his hole and we can expect continued winter?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:04 - ID#207145)
Russia is history without "Oil shock". Many others, even Chile ( turned down fighter delivery, couldn't pay. Oil is the final solution. It may not need a lot of help. Turns seasonal right away. CNBC, aside, oil is a screeming buy.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:06 - ID#207145)
Oil is a screeming "short term buy". everything is short term due to Asia.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:07 - ID#26467)
ABX is highly liquid and made for short term trades.The bid/ask
spread is very tight.Trades can be executed either on the TSE
or on the NYSE,useful when long weekends fall on different
dates.Trades very well on the system I use,simple and effective.
Homestake I feel is for options,for long cycle trades,i.e.
November calls end of July and Feb puts first week of November.
Earnings are going to be the deciding factor in the value of the
shares.I still think PDG will end up in the 6-8 valuation
and ABX in the 9 dollar bracket in Feb 99.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:09 - ID#207145)
Oil (gold almost),
The most satisfying thing a trader can do is buy at a 52 week low.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:13 - ID#207145)
Nasdac 100 is ok too, but
I can't stand to buy high. It hurts my sleep.

John Disney__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:17 - ID#24135)
.. er I dont think it is 25 %
overvalued actually .. but many do.
I think the BIS made such a statement
on the basis of its current account
balance. On other criteria .. such
as PPP I think its undervalued.
Regardless of what I THINK about
it .. it's going UP and it seems to
be going HIGHER. If that is correct,
it is not good for gold.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:23 - ID#287186)
Steve, re Hoarding of Gold & Silver Coins by the masses
So what if average folk ( such as I ) hoard Gold & Silver.
We want the prices of Gold & Silver to go up do we not?
Does not increased demand raise these prices?
Don't we want the average Joe and Jane Sixpack to buy more Eagles, Maple Leafs, Kangaroos, Junk Silver, etc?
So what if they suck up a billion ounces or so of Gold & Silver and squirrel it away in mattresses, pvc pipe, lockboxes, etc.
Eventually if enough are minted the numbers will overwhelm the hoarders and Gold & Silver will come back into circulation.
Minting billions of Silver Coins for daily trade {US 25 to $20.00} and billions of Gold Coins for larger stores of value {US$50 to $1000} would accomplish several goals:
1} Increase demand and drive up prices }:- ) ) )
2} More Gold & Silver coins to form a basis for money
{so that I do not have to repost see Tue Jun 23 1998 for my 22:49 and Mountain Goat's 18:37} and my extensive posts on the 13th & 14th at
3 ) Help us return to a Gold & Silver standard
{dangit - I want Silver & Gold coins jingling in my pocket instead of this base metal crapola! And I want to be able to commonly buy stuff with it.
4} Put a bunch of unemployed miners back to work
{which would help out our local economy as well as other communities.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:23 - ID#35571)
goblin went short
But without any real conviction. Poor goblin, I think he's spooked by the yen/intervention situation. He'll get his strength back eventually, unless Rubin takes his head off first.

Cage Rattler
(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:27 - ID#33184)
@JDisney: ZAR/$ = 5.95 - may hit R6.00 to the dollar soon!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:31 - ID#426220)
Rubes Keep Buyin As Pros Head for Exits - Beware Lurking Bear

"The preternatural strength of U.S. stocks these days comes
down to one disquieting fact: most investors don't
know what else to do with their surplus cash."

Nationally-acclaimed newspaper investment reporter, Rick Ackerman, asserts

"The bull is in
its endgame, stocks are booby-trapped to entice the unwary,
and the con-artists who are doing the manipulating are easing
toward the exits."

" This is known as distribution: smart money selling shares
to all the rubes. It is what happens before
markets collapse, and it is happening now."

The Ackerman report may be seen at the following URL - as usual it is necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in word "golden" of the URL before posting it to your Internet locator:

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:38 - ID#347235)
@ BArt RE: The new improved Kitco 2
Seems to me you could shut that one down and save your bandwidth, not much action over there.

Strad Master
(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:42 - ID#250297)
Y2K, The Planets, and Ignoramuses
ALL: Go to this website ( ) and see why it is so difficult to make a reasoned judgement about how to prepare for Y2K. There you will find books on many heretofore unwarned of catastrophes ( Y2K is conspicuously absent ) that will shortly befall us miserable earthlings. What I find amazing is that relatively intelligent people write such extraordinary twaddle. Still more amazing is that there exists a market for it. According to my favorite impending disaster, if we manage to survive January 1, 2000 intact, we must face the horrors of May 5, 2000 when all the planets will line up in a row ( ooowee!! ) , causing the ice caps to melt, the continents to break up, Richter scale 13 earthquakes, and all sorts of other unimaginable havoc. What preposterous balderdash! One would have to be completely ignorant of the most basic science to believe such nonesense. My point: Y2K is a real problem with real consequences which may range from minimal to devastating. But when crackpot catastrophists are out there crying "wolf" over something as inocuous as the planets supposedly lining up, it makes preparing appropriately for Y2K extremely difficult since it makes a reasonble person wonder if the Y2K catastrophisits are equally nuts.

Cage Rattler
(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:44 - ID#33184)
SA Reserve Bank attempts to hoodwink markets

A GAMBLE by the Reserve Bank to bolster the flagging rand backfired on Friday evening, plunging the rand to a staggering R5,93 to the dollar.

Shortly after close of South African markets news filtered through that the United States' Federal Reserve was intervening in the currency market, selling dollars in favour of rand. The market indicated the order was a signficant size.

The order was, however, quickly revealed to have emanated from the South African Reserve Bank. The foreign exchange market reacted with swift force, plunging the rand to a record low and leaving the country gasping in its wake.

Earlier in the day the markets reacted strongly to an afternoon currency slide, with all key indices losing value.

One thing economists seem to agree on is that there is no guessing where the rand is going to end up in the short term. Rand Merchant Bank economist Julia Ray said that the market has little control over currency fluctuations. As an emerging market trading in the international financial system, the market is exposed to general emerging market pressures, she said. "The rand will be pushed to the level the market thinks it should settle at," she said, "and until it finds that level, any speculation is pointless".

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:46 - ID#347235)
Strad Master
I agree 100%. BTW Did youget e-mail from me yesterday?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:47 - ID#350179)
Various twaddle
Encryption flaw found

Win2k ( tie-in to the am discussion )
Haven't tried any of the downloads - not an endorsement

Lurkers be careful out there

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:48 - ID#402148)
I'm Buyin Gold Stocks....
causer 90% of those here are crying in there beer, and the other three of you are gleefully shorting.


Dave in CO
(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:48 - ID#229103)
My wife is from the Philippines, but 1/2 Singaporean Chinese. I think she said it was a 20 years period of Mr. and Mrs. Marcos' martial law. As you've no doubt read, the Marcos family and their friends profited but rest of the population suffered. It ended only with the threat of revolution. What a shame that the IMF may do the same to the entire region.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:49 - ID#346404)
time to ...

The US propped up the Rand today for South Africa, Russian upped their interest rate from 40% to 60% to stem their currency exodus, Japan can't control their economy, Rubin can't prop up the Yen for more than a few days, Oil is cheaper than spring water, DOW PE ratios defy gravity... I guess it is time for me to start shorting the PMs along with everyone else...
What is up with silver prices dropping today after COMEX inventories reached lower? And just why is Platinum $350? And how do neutrinos have mass anyway?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 13:50 - ID#354133)
Steve in TO: Metal for Heavy Metal

You bet your sweet @ss I would trade hardware for plat/gold/silver. "Bartering" has its advantages. Lots of other legitimate dealers do it, also: Vollmer & Co., CDNN Investments, etc. As an example: MAK-90 ( AK-47 variant ) 1 oz plat Maples plus 6 silver of the same; 2 gold Maples and 8 silver ozs change back; or 95 silver Maples. All approximate and negotiable - any differences made up in ammo, clips, accessories, etc. Don't have any flamethrowers in stock, but like you said - some folks here at Kitco love to use them :-0

Strad Master
(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:05 - ID#250297)
Yup! Did you get my response, sent last night?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:15 - ID#289357)
Hidey-holes (good advice)

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:18 - ID#335190)
Globalization @ Free enterprise and free labour - All is well eh! Not to worry.
More pain likely from Asian woes.

NEW YORK ( AP ) -- The worst of the Asian financial typhoon is yet to wash over North American shores.

U.S. and Canadian workers and businesses, while so far weathering much of the yearlong crisis, are likely to feel the pounding in the months ahead.

Layoffs will increase, export sales will slump further and lower-priced imports will surge, analysts say.

"The Asian situation will get worse, and the economic effects on America will be more and more pronounced," said Sung Won Sohn, chief economist at Norwest Corp. in Minneapolis. Already, signs of the crunch are increasing.

"Whenever you have a crisis like this, there's always good news and bad news," said Nariman Behravesh, chief international economist at Standard and Poor's DRI unit in Lexington, Mass.

"A lot of good news happened early on," he said. "The bad news is coming later."

For poor, Asian crisis has hit hard

BAN MENG, Thailand ( AP ) -- Nouphen Chartsri is no poster child for the Asian crisis, no high-flying stock broker who lost his Mercedes-Benz and is now selling sandwiches to survive.

"Globalization? I've heard of it, but I don't know what it means," Nouphen said of the buzzword for the vast economic changes under way in Asia and elsewhere. "Probably, it means a troubled world."

She's cutting cane again, for free, since her family has gone into debt to the growers to survive.

Can her family endure three years waiting for an expected turnaround in the Thai economy?

"I doubt it," she said. "We'll be broken. People will steal, commit crimes."

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:19 - ID#223391)
Troubled waters -
S. A. Rand in freefall, Gold producers may not issue millenium coin, Venuzuela's coffers empty, Russia raising interest rates another 20 points Monday. And so it goes.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:19 - ID#402148)
More accurately shortages:

Grain ( coming at a global heat storm near you )
Ditto fresh produce
Ditto natural gas
Deliverable copper cathodes
Ditto silver
Ditto gold
Ditto platinum
Ditto palladium
Ditto skilled labor


(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:19 - ID#317193)
Computer number next to gold spot

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:30 - ID#35571)

What was that?!? Something really pumped the PM's right at the close. Who WAS that masked man?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:30 - ID#207145)
We are on the verge of a gold, oil rally. I am no gold bug. I am an investor.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:31 - ID#207145)
We are on the verge of a gold, oil rally. I am no gold bug. I am an investor.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:31 - ID#335190)
Strikers' sacrifices mount as GM job action drags on

GM officials say they must become more efficient to fight growing global competition. Last week, GM's Smith repeated the company's hard stance.

"Change is inevitable -- and unavoidable -- even here in Flint," he said in a speech at Kettering University.

But Flint strikers like Tom Hogan, who has been at GM for 13 years, dismissed the automaker's arguments.

"Why can't we build for the global market?" said the 43-year-old welder, adding that if fewer workers make a good living, fewer consumers can spend to boost the economy.

A self-described "Chevy man," Hogan acknowledged his loyalty has been shaken and his view of Flint's future has dimmed.

He even delayed plans to build a new house with his girlfriend because of the strikes.

UAW picketer Westcoat also acknowledged the future will be difficult for Flint. "The next generation, I don't think there's going to be anyone here," he said.

Westcoat joked that there has been a silver lining.
"I've been trying to lose weight and now I am," he said, noting his family has been eating out less.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:33 - ID#229277)
Gollum: Oil and power
A thought-provoking analysis. I'm slow, tho. I need help to understand it better, if you'll indulge me.

The West helps maintain a state of instability in the ME to keep ME nations from developing political and economic power with oil, and also to generate demand for supremely expensive weapons that the ME nations need as much as the West needs the oil. By pushing down the price of gold, the West lowers the value of existing ME gold reserves. By keeping dollars expensive, the US limits ME dollar reserves, since they get paid in inflated dollars.

Two questions:
1 ) Why do the oil producers who hold the cards allow themselves to be used this way?
2 ) What is to prevent the oil producers from demanding oil payment from the West in the currency that most benefits their interests? Why dollars?

By the way, I hear the DOW will close slightly down in late trading. A talking dog told me when I went out to mail a letter.


(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:37 - ID#207145)
Do not invest until Tues., near close,
Mondays report from Japan Tancan ( sic ) . Likely to be real bad, would be kryptonite for yen super bullish dollar. Gold, then as june expires, rolls into a seasonally great time for gold ( July ) .

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:41 - ID#432298)
Gold mining stocks...........
Hang on everyone, if anyone is holding gold mining shares, they ALL will soon be worthless. It seems that they have been dragged down so bad that it would be YEARS before they recoup the losses they sustained over the past year and a half.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:41 - ID#207145)
Window dressing won't allow much loss in DOW. ( end of quarter ) . Poor nations must pump all they can to survive.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:42 - ID#252127)

Finally the gold producers got real and seen that selling 1000 tonnes of gold coin was not a feasible idea.

Better, if their balance sheets allow; they should close out hedges and shutter their high cost mines to standby status.

Many of these miners cannot even generate a decent operating profit at $400 plus gold and the supply they generate feeds the confidence for those damn fund speculators who push the paper gold futures/derivatives markets in whatever direction they darn well please.

The motto should be UNITE AND FIGHT and the producers must form their own organization to channel their product at a fair price.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:43 - ID#207145)
Don't take any hot tip advice from that talking dog. Unless he reads charts right side up.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:44 - ID#402148)
Blooper..agree on gold and oil but not timing....
the "street" already has the Japanese business activity report factored in as being a total wahout, and Yen may be a buy on the fact situation, coupled with G7 intervention.

Monday is the last day Yen traders can book profits for the quarter for their big fat bonus paycheck. What better day for Rubin ( the futures trader ) to spank them than by screwing them out of a bonus, thus making them long-term "gun-shy"?


(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:44 - ID#194311)
your thoughts are like those of another we all know.

Well informed too but a lot more personable.

Where do you see the dollar price of gold in one year?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:46 - ID#411331)
@ Jack: Did I hear you paraphrase a call for a gold cartel?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:49 - ID#35571)

1 ) They don't. It pisses them off from time to time whenever they aren't
distracted by terrorists and fundamentalists and Israilis and palestinians and lions and tigers and bears, oh my. That's why we
have emargos from time to time and organizations like OPEC ( what
ever happened to ARAMCO? ) . See Donalds link from a little earlier.

2 ) They do. We give them whatever currency they ask for. It's just
that after they lock it away in their vault it turns out to lose it's
vlaue somehow and becomes worth less than it was when they
originally asked for it.

Let's see if we drive that little talking dog nuts. I'll go give the DOW
lever a yank.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:49 - ID#207145)
Japaneese Ton Can Report ,
Forgive spelling, SA Rand problem might give gold some trouble Mon., Tues. After that Gold looks good with the positive spin coming out of Japan for awhile. I'm gone from all investments July 23. I will sell into strength on all investments

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:52 - ID#207145)
The Yen might need intervention Mon. It will take a drubbing. Economic report coming out Mon. as you know. Rubin probably will intervene.What say you.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:53 - ID#286230)
Blooper--"I'm gone from all investments July 23."
Do you mean stocks, gold and commodites and if so--why?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:53 - ID#336393)
International All-North Resources????
Would anyone have a web address or phone number for this Vancouver mining company?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:54 - ID#317193)
Psychological problems...
Well, doc it all started at Kitco. I was usually long gold but seems all I saw was purple. Even when I was short and liked seeing purple I really didn't enjoy the color.

Here's my problem: the Oracle of spouse, is redoing the house in, you guessed it, PURPLE! I can't stand it and I have become such a butt that not only are the wife and kids upset with me but the ferrets won't have anything to do with me either. Can you help?

RESPONSE: Yes. Patience, my son, patience...PMSP. Your time will arrive.

Tom : )

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:57 - ID#35571)

A year is pretty hard to see, but if the dollar gets back to a more normal valuation than it is now I would think 390 wouldn't be a bad guess. If there is a mass exodus to the Euro it will be higher than that. If conditions
continue the same way they have during the great economic boom we have had in the US for abou two decades now ( which I doubt very seriously ) gold would stabilize around the average cost of production of the few richest mines left in business ) say around 270 or so.

My bet is 390.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:59 - ID#207145)
This is a sucker rally, before a rate increase. I know this is not a popular stance, and , if it's not intrest rates it will be disappointment with 3rd quarter profits and the intransigence of Japan. Or Asia. You pick either one.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 14:59 - ID#252127)

When a group of like minds whose economic livelihood is being destroyed by a group of speculative hacks who operate their fiat chicanery openly and without any public reactions; a cartel would be to mild a reaction.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:03 - ID#286230)
Frustrated--International All-north resources
Not sure this number is still current: Investor/Shareholder Information 800-763-3255

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:05 - ID#207145)
Sorry I omitted commodities. This is one area you may invest in. Commodities are the only place to be as the market weakens. Gold might or might not apply depending on market and dollar.If dollar falls I am fully invested in gold.Beans will burn this summer along with cotton and corn, etc. Talk to Cherokee on grains. I do agree with him.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:05 - ID#254269)
blooper; What is the significance of July
23rd ? Thanks.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:06 - ID#286230)
I assume you are talking stocks and commodites. In the longer term lowering the US$ is a necessity unless it can trade entirely within its borders.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:07 - ID#229277)
Woof woof
DOW +16.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:09 - ID#417249)
@ Gollum, EJ
My My! It riles 'em to believe we perceive the tangled web they weave...So much smoke & mirrors...If Oil is the Blood, then Gold is the...? If Currency is the Elevator, the Commodities are the...?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:10 - ID#298259)
Thanks, I just called and that's the number. Now maybe I can get some questions cleared up about their dividend payouts.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:13 - ID#207145)
According to Jake Burnstein, July, going back 100 years is a decent month for gold, and is a seasonal up month. August is better, but June is so bad, July is a relief rally month of sorts. Of course you can't depend on seasonality, but it is a tool. Gold is mainly dirt cheap, with currency problems everywhere. Allways remember, return of your money is more important than return on your money. This is speculation, and just good odds.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:13 - ID#35571)
Stick back, nose up

DOW +18

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:13 - ID#227290)
Frustrated & IAN
Watching IAN has been a real wonder. Nothing is going on in the company that the public knows about that wuld account for this price action. I have thought management was playing games with the shares to drive the price down and buy them. Can't prove that, but I do suspect it.
The rumor this morning is that the company has agreed with a junior producer on a jv to drill the property in Guyana.

IAN's other project, the one in the Yukon, should see a credible drill program this summer, with the work beginning in July.

Maybe the market has just decided this stock is history. But I rather think the insiders are arrainging to line their own pockets. Don't know that for sure, but do suspect it.

BTW, I'm a shareholder. And although I don't like the price action, I know that unless management does something stupid, things should turn out okay and maybe very well.

The Preacher

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:14 - ID#288369)
That's ol' studio.stupido buying in six digits on share holding. ( gulp & puff )

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:16 - ID#35571)
increase the thrust

DOW +25

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:16 - ID#410198)
Strad are a true master.....Tchaikovsky lives...thank you,

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:16 - ID#229277)
( Biting hand on lever )

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:18 - ID#35571)

Will somebody get that damn dog out of the cabin so that I can cut in the afterburners!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:19 - ID#433172)
I am one of those who has prepared for for whatever may come as best I can. Whar we are talking about is a failure of the collective, thats what this forum is about regarding the collective economy. Many here are protecting themselves from a collective crash, distancing themselves from paper etc. The DOW belivers think we are nuts, but who cares.
I don't know is planetary alignment will be a problem but from what I understand there is good scientific reasoning behind the fear.I'm well grounded in Science, worked as a chemist, taught Biology for 6 years, did manage to get some plaudits based on performance, I know I'm no ignorant dumbell, and it seems to me prudent to do whatever I can to distance myself a little from the collective. To be self-sufficient as possibile. No-one knows whats going to go down, thats just it, isn't it? I see lots of room for catastrophes, a bilgepump on a boat is not superfluous even if the boat doesn't leak. Hand and power.
Ever been in an emergency situation Stradmaster? I don't mean the kind where the dog poos on the lawn.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:20 - ID#207145)
Oil ain't gonna go crazy,
It's just going up to reasonable. 16.50, 17.00. In an up market like i'm expecting, oil could go a little higher. We will all be surprised at the strength of this SUCKER RALLY.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:23 - ID#347235)
Srad Master
Not yet I didn't sign on this morning at home the real boss was copying CDs last night. Will read this PM when I get home. Shalom

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:23 - ID#342315)
Somebody posted re Pol;arbear
I saw it and can't find it now, Gold mine in Calif. Please repost. Thank you, Charlie

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:27 - ID#402148)
please see my 14:44 post.


(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:27 - ID#207145)
This operation is " hit and run ".Should you decide to take it Jim. Plug into momentum and value, and walk away with 12 to 14%. Make sure you find a seat when the music stops. I will leave early 23rd or so. I am not smug, and just hope I am correct.

Strad Master
(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:28 - ID#250297)
Thanks so much. It warms the cockles of my heart to know you so enjoyed it.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:30 - ID#207145)
Will use Fund to play rally,
Oil, gold and Europe, Liesure, telecom.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:30 - ID#350179)
26 minutes to shed 24 points
Good doggie! I've got a biscuit if you have it close within a point of 8924...

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:31 - ID#229277)
Woof woooooo woof
"The real story is what will happen to profits for the rest of 1998 and 1999 and the answer depends heavily on what Japan does*," says chief investment officer at First Albany Corp, whose favorite food is steak and who enjoys howling at the moon.

* which is nothing.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:31 - ID#152163)
New gold believer to group
Just wanted to introduce myself to the group. I have followed your
great postings for a few weeks and have found much intelligence, humor
and most of all compassion. I am 55 and have been an investor for about
30 years during which I have made a lot and lost a lot. You know how
that goes... Just a few things now. When ever I get to a point of fear
I always remember what I saw in 1974. There was this stock that had $4
in cash for every share and no debt. This broker next to mine started
buying it at $6 then $5 then $4 then $3 then $2 and when it got to $1
he said get me out of this F!!!!!! stock it's going to 0. I must be
wrong about something!!!!!
And that is how a person can sell something at a $1 eventhough 18 months
later that same stock was selling for $24!!!!!!! So every time I get that
monster "fear" going about my gold stocks I just remember back to 1974.
Thanks. GD

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:32 - ID#433172)
Thanks for the perspective on CB gold leasing. How can the buyers of "leases " sell the gold? They don't own it, do they just sell the lease?
I'm still very uncertain about this, I do know that most predators first confuse their prey, the CB's so far fit that description.

Gold Dancer
(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:32 - ID#377196)
New gold believer to group
Just wanted to introduce myself to the group. I have followed your
great postings for a few weeks and have found much intelligence, humor
and most of all compassion. I am 55 and have been an investor for about
30 years during which I have made a lot and lost a lot. You know how
that goes... Just a few things now. When ever I get to a point of fear
I always remember what I saw in 1974. There was this stock that had $4
in cash for every share and no debt. This broker next to mine started
buying it at $6 then $5 then $4 then $3 then $2 and when it got to $1
he said get me out of this F!!!!!! stock it's going to 0. I must be
wrong about something!!!!!
And that is how a person can sell something at a $1 eventhough 18 months
later that same stock was selling for $24!!!!!!! So every time I get that
monster "fear" going about my gold stocks I just remember back to 1974.
Thanks. GD

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:33 - ID#229277)
Chomp! DOW at +6
( Teeth bite deeply into hand on lever ) .

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:36 - ID#288369)
@Gold Dancer.............
wise and timely comment. welcome and thanks ;^ ) ~

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:37 - ID#207145)
Selby, Sucker rally ends.
To be honest, I stole that date from Arch Crawford. I've heard the 20th.
Over bought time will come quickly. Third week or so give or take.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:39 - ID#207145)
If I told you i'd know the price of gold in a year, i'd be the biggest liar in the world.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:40 - ID#288369)
@EJect..........the job.
EJ, screw the 100K day're needed full-time here!

Strad Master
(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:40 - ID#250297)
Aw c'mon. Are you serious? I am preparing for a possible catastrophe with Y2K. Its likely ramifications make sense to me. But, do you honestly believe that because the planets in our solar system will align on May 2, 2000 ( alignment being a VERY peculiar and relative term when used in the context of the vast distances of space ) that the Earth will be racked by incredible earthquakes and a realignment of the magnetic axis? My dear friend, use your common sense. BTW, exactly who are the respected scientists you mention who believe in such stupidity? The Earth will sooner be hit by an asteroid - that has happened and likely will happen again someday. But planetary alignment causing such problems? Uh Uh. Besides, one of the things they recommend on that site is to move out to Arkansas ( where the coast line will be ) and dig a shelter in the ground to ride out the earth changes. Does that sound like a reasonable thing to do? On the other hand, just think of the real estate possiblitities! A person can ( after May 2, 2000 ) buy up a huge chunk of that prime beachfront property in Arkansas. Just found a use for gold!!! Gimmie a break...

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:41 - ID#229277)
Dain Rauscher Wessels said Friday it lowered its rating on Inc
"Amazon is perhaps the most powerful growth story in
retailing today," Dain Rauscher Wessels analyst Mitch Bartlett
said in a research note.

"However, at today's share price, even after factoring in
the powerful attributes of the business model, the yearly sales
growth necessary to achieve an investment return over a three-
to five-year period would be, we believe, unachievable."

Since when does a trivial matter like future sales growth matter
to Internet company stock price in this bull market? Unless, of
course, this is no longer a bull market.


(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:42 - ID#432112)
@ EJ
Actually Japan IS doing what is logical. Letting the Yen drop. Question is...How long will the U.S. and China let it continue? Not too long I suspect. It becomes problematic...allows our manufacturing sector to get it's collective @ss kicked into recession. Hello GM/Unions! Anybody home? Wake up, smell the coffee, Go to work!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:42 - ID#288295)

I think I saw Polarbear advertised over on Vronsky's site.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:43 - ID#254269)
Henry Kaufman Warning re Stock Market

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:45 - ID#350179)
Japanese banks' bad loans total 29.5 tril. yen in FY '97
Japanese commercial banks held bad loans totaling some 29,501.7
billion yen ( $209 bil. ) at the end of fiscal 1997, which ended March
31, the Federation of Bankers Association of Japan said Friday.
The amount of bad loans held by the 146 member banks were
calculated in line with the stricter disclosure standards adopted in
January, the federation said.

Probably old news but, isn't that a lot? Bad doggie - no biscuit for you!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:46 - ID#254269)
22,000 employees furloughed because of weak sales;

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:46 - ID#431366)
BART - I agree with Retired Soldier
Skwirl is the only one that has posted much about GOLD & SILVER over on the new K2 and he is mostly an echo in a hollow cave.
You know, the guys 'n gals who find, dig up, smelt & refine the stuff the Kitcoites make noise about - but can't use to buy groceries with down at their local Safeway or King Soopers.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:46 - ID#288369)
Will Pink China wait One or Two days after Clinton's return to devalue?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:47 - ID#410198)
Strad Master....enjoyed is an brought a tear to the eye........Iam truly
honoured to know you

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:50 - ID#254269)
Japanese Bank Merger Talks;

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:52 - ID#254269)
Chinese Devaluation. Studio, my old buddie, how much will they devalue do you think and
what will be direct result on US ? Serious question for an unserious guy.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:54 - ID#350179)
SBC mum on LTCB's reported merger
Swiss Bank Corp. ( SBC ) was reticent Friday about news reports
that Long-Term Credit Bank of Japan ( LTCB ) is edging toward a merger
accord with Sumitomo Trust and Banking Co.
A spokesman for SBC, with which LTCB announced a business
partnership in July last year, said he cannot make any comment on the

What's the connection ( anyone? )

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:55 - ID#298259)
Preacher and IAN
Waiting for a call back, will let you know what I fine out.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:56 - ID#254269)
Millenium Coin ;

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:58 - ID#432112)
@ China devaluation should come later rather than sooner.
That's the purpose of Clinton's visit. He'll cite the anti China sentiment at home ( Stick ) , agrees to lay off the human rights thing ( Carrot ) , Dangles MFN...Pleads, begs, promises action against the Yen ( Those dirty Japs! ) ...Anything to DELAY devaluation until the elections in November. However, I'm not convinced he can pull it off this time.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:58 - ID#288369)
@Avalon..........I don't know..........
But, Wall Street won't like it much....and, neither will Rubin. I'm in the small camp that thinks it will be good for the dollar price of gold.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 15:59 - ID#350179)
Thanks Avalon (missed the post)
DOW 8943.8 close

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:02 - ID#286230)
I'm still trying to determine if the general trend for gold is up or down--looks down to me still.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:03 - ID#431366)
Avalon - thanks for the news
Goes to show not even the folks who mine Gold & Silver believe in it as a coin anymore. Skwirl is chattering up an empty tree!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:04 - ID#317193) for the next...

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:04 - ID#317193)
Next Dow 9000 party....
Anybody got the approximate for the third Dow 9000party. I've got to get pepared. : ) Tops go to bottoms and bottoms go to tops. Yes?


(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:05 - ID#432112)
@ Studio.R, Avalon
It's not such a small camp. Timing is the debate. Quantity will restore equilibrium between East/West...or about 1/3 to 1/2. POG will increase to $500 before its over ( 2-3 years ) . IMHO

Gold Dancer
(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:05 - ID#377196)
potatoes and the feds
While I think gold will go up I don't think it will get as high as it
should. Perhaps to $450 to $500. The hugh short position if Veronosa
is correct should drive the price to $1200 but let me tell you another
true story. It was about 15 years ago and I knew someone who was
trading potatoes because there was a large short position. In fact the
short positions was so large there were not enough potatoes to cover the
shorts. So this guy bought a lot of contracts. Potatoes started to go up
and were up maybe 30 to 40 % ( I don't remember ) when all of a sudden, and
I was standing right there, the feds stopped the game under the premise
of a "disorderly market" and gave all the long's their money back. That
was it . Game over. I could not believe it. What right did the gov't
have in doing this. Does anyone think that the gov't will not do this
with the gold market? I think they will. They will use the excuse of
"a disorderly market" to take final control. So I can see a rally for
6 months or so but after that all bets are off. I expect a gold stock
ralley to last from now until Jan of 99. GD

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:05 - ID#254269)
More on Japanese Banks;

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:07 - ID#340302)
RE: AVALON'S Henry Kaufman speaks...oh, oh,...
...first, Salomon warned yesterday, now Henry Kaufman...

This stock market is headed for major trouble.

When the economists begin to form a consensus ( unheard of ) , then the Big Dump cannot be far away.



But, in the meantime...

The DOW BOOGIE: "Let's Dance, put on your shoes and dance the blues away!"

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:08 - ID#350179)
Caracas stks felled by forex fears,end off 3.1 pct

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:09 - ID#254269)
MM ; Your 15.54. I did not fully undertsand your question . Were you wondering about
the SBC involvement ? That, I do not know, unless SBC is the "matchmaker"
between LTCB and Sumitomo, in which case, they ( SBC ) probably have some big fees at risk.
The way I understand it, is that LTCB is the "first crack in the Japanese
dam ) and there may be a lot more to come.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:09 - ID#229277)
Pant pant, slobber
( Ok, I didn't get it under the open but got dern close, chewed 44 points off a 52 point gain. Do I get a bone? Gollum, do you want your hand back? )

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:10 - ID#254269)
No bone.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:10 - ID#269191)
Potatoes vs. Gold.
Maybe the Feds can do that to the N.Y. market. But what about the
markets in Asia and Europe?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:14 - ID#350179)
Avalon - just needed detail fill on the SBC link.
S&P revises LTCB ratings outlook to developing

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:16 - ID#269191)
U.S. economy and the Fed's next move.
U.S. GDP was revised up for the 1st quarter to 5.2% but corporate
profits after tax fell 1.2%. The revision was largely due to rising
inventories and the expectation is that growth will slow to about
1% in the 2nd quarter. With the renewed weakness in the Japanese yen
and the threat of a Chinese devaluation, the Fed will use the weakening
U.S. economy as justification for a reduction in the Fed Funds rate.
My guess is not at this meeting but the next one.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:21 - ID#432112)
Tie I e I'm is on my side!! Yes it is!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:26 - ID#176200)
@Gold Dancer. Thats one I have never seen mention of here before.
Welcome to Kitco! Your potato story scenario got my attention and it slapped me upside the face! You are right! The bastards could move
the goal posts or hide them all together! Thanks for the slant!

Regards, O.L.

not speaking for my employer.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:28 - ID#433172)
Yes, quite possible. Gravitational effects by planets the size of Jupiter coupled with the large outer planets on the relatively thin ( 27 mile average ) crust of the Earth already streched and pushed and under tension could bring diastrophic change. I can't provide any references at the moment but I'll look it up. I have read reports from both astronmers and geologists indicating these possibilties. The fringies out there you are refering to have picked this up and run with it, to extremes maybe, but the probabilities of quake and shake do go up.
There is a larger question tho, a retreat from the collective for whatever reasons, sometimes the reasons given aren't the real ones.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:29 - ID#43349)
That's close enough for me. Actually I tend to hit about 20 to 30 points higher than I'm aiming for myself.

The equities market the last couple of days has tried mightily to make a go of it but ended up going nowhere. No steam. No viagra. Even when it gets pumped by a favorable Microsoft ruling or OPEC hopes. This would be the time for it try to resume it's climb after it's recent rest, but it couldn't do it. The market will now rest some more.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:30 - ID#207145)
Gold looks down to everybody. I just bought some.

Gold Dancer
(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:32 - ID#377196)
Excellent guestion about other markets in Asia and Europe. Does not
"Another" say that the same gold has many pieces of paper attached to
it? I would agree. So when these large bank mergers started happening
I think to myself that they are trying to merge other side of their
hedges into one place so their is not a big loss. In fact I think they
set up this game to eventually force mergers as "beneficial to all
concerned." Already US banks are getting a hold in Europe and vice versa.
Asia will be next. The Euro buys time because it was scheduled for so
many years into the future. So some of the short position will be taken care
of with financial mergers that are going on right now. We are in a global
economy and global markets and they can be shut down at any time by
any of the organizations IMF,BIS Alan knows all these people. I don"t
think we are in trouble until the shorts begin to scream which won't
be until $420 or so. Just a thought but one that I am going to be aware
of so I don't let greed get the best of me. Blanchard says $50 on DROOY.
I say it will get to $15 to $18. Still a good ride. GD

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:33 - ID#359316)
-then gold may start to have its day.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:33 - ID#359316)
until the buy and hold mutual funders discover that they've stopped
making 30% p.a. returns, then down.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:36 - ID#269191)
Respectfully disagree re: U.S. dollar.
The dollar is overvalued in terms of PPP with the yen. The Japanese
say they are competitive with the U.S. at 106 yen and we're now at
142 and change. The U.S. trade deficit is soaring and it's finally
hurting the economy. The Fed's next move will be down, not up. The
hot money has been ignoring fundamentals like the trade deficit because
up to now it's had only the benign effects of holding the U.S. inflation
rate down and real interest rates up. But now that it's hurting profits
and the economy, I think the hedge funds will start paying more attention.

Looks to me that the dollar is one big classic bubble with 95%
of market participants bullish. Gold on the other hand is about
as deflated and unloved as an asset can get. Nobody's bullish including
the people on this site. Buy gold and sell the dollar. The Fed
has an ulimited supply of dollars and I think they want it to go down.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:39 - ID#20748)
Bob Farrell on gold during deflation
In Theme and Profile Investing, June 1998.

"The inclusion of gold in our Theme report has chiefly been as a hedge. As financial assets get more overvalued, so does gold get relatively undervalued. The relative performance of gold versus the S&P 500 has now reached a level opposite to 1981 and exceeded the undervaluation of the 1968 period. Even though current trends appear to be more deflationary, we think currency instability in times of crises could bring back hedge demand for gold."

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:41 - ID#432112)
Aye! Aye! Captain! The Good Ship Lollipop is TiTANKin.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:43 - ID#359316)
Before sweeping your dirt under the carpet...
you must first have a large enough carpet.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:46 - ID#207145)
You are right. I just bought a 10% position. I have not lost any money in gold, as i have seen fit not to invest. Today i bought a little. Caution is something i learned the hard way a long time ago.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:50 - ID#269191)
Blanchard, DROOY, Gold.
I suppose the government can always play the 800LB. gorilla and shut
the market down--at least the orgainized market. If one follows Blanchard's
advice one would sell parts of the portfollio as the market goes up.
So if Drooy gets to say $18 you might sell 20% and keep the remaining
80% if you're still bullish. If it hits $50 you could sell another
20% of the original position and hold the remainder, etc. until you're
totally out.

I think his $50 Drooy had several caveats: Their cost reduction program
had to work; gold had to go to $500 per oz. and they had to increase
output from 700,000 oz. to 1.2 million oz. Apparently they're making
great progress on cost cutting.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:53 - ID#269191)
Golden Boy: I'm not a Shirley Temple fan but you obviously must be.
Buy low; sell high.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:54 - ID#43349)
No, Toto, I don't think we're in DOW bull market territory any more. Not when things get so quiet at the traders desks that they have time to start comparing earnings results and growth projections to actual prices.

Just like you can find charts of advances over declines I wonder if y\one can find charts of earnings surprises to estimated earnings somewhere? I think for any given day or week or month one ought to be able to take the sum of the differnces between estmated earnings and rported earnings ( sum of the earnings surprises ) and divide that by the sum of the estimated earnings for all the stocks reporting during that time period and come up with a number which could be charted.

Since the market discounts everything it can think of in estimating prices, supposedly, this would give a picture of how wide the divergence was between the markets thinking and actual economic reality. It should make for a good leading indicator.

John Disney__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 16:55 - ID#24135)
Holy Randini !!
For DEJ ..
Lived Japan eight years .. Maybe
things have changed but doubt it .
For any kitcoite with recent
experiemce Japan/US prices ( even at
140 yen ) .. how does purchasing
power parity compare ?? My man
DEJ says Japan is 25 per cent
cheaper to live in than USA .. Right ??
I dont think so but Ive been wrong

To all
Regarding Rand .. He He bought back
today .. God knows what rate I got.
Have feeling I hit top. Hope so.
Anybody got any idea what mining
costs are in RSA at 6 rand to dollar.
Goodbye ABX .. goodbye Homestake ..

Aragorn III
(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:00 - ID#212323)
Many are down on gold right now...I shall be a one-man pep rally...a picture worth 1,000 words
Kinda makes you love gold all over again, doesn't it?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:00 - ID#432112)
Rising inventories = un-expensed costs capitalized to improve earnings.
LCM Adjustments are still a long way off...4th qtr. and there may STILL be surprises in 1st of '99. Too much is at stake NOT to play the numbers game. I see lower earnings estimates coming soon.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:01 - ID#431366)
Beanie Babies, Cabbage Patch Dolls, Pet Rocks, Barbie Dolls, etc
The masses will buy any stoopid thing with enough marketing hype.
But can the pep club for GOLD 'n SILVER sell the average American just one $6 Silver Eagle? or a golden eagle of any size even a 1/10oz for $35?
Less than a million golden eagles are sold in one year.
Maybe 3 million Silver Eagles are sold in one year.
You can bet most of those sales went to people who bought more than one or two coins. What is the market penetration? Maybe one person in a hundred or one person in five hundred?
Millions of people spend more on a T-shirt with a stoopid design than they could buy a Silver Eagle for. Can the average person buy a Silver Eagle or Maple Leaf at a Walmart? No. They have to go to a coin dealer if there is one nearby or mail order them - and mass marketing for such firms is non-existent.
As far at the average Joe and Jane are concerned GOLD IS DEAD and Silver is moribund at best. Only catastrophe nuts and traders buy them.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:03 - ID#254269)
John Disney; Following FYI,

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:03 - ID#252150)
Mike Stewart@Agree TSE AU index looking firmer.
I bought ABX on the last couple of dips & it's been behaving well lately.
May have to start buying HGMCY @ 4 since John D. is fixing to buy it all up @ 3.50.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:09 - ID#152163)
Good advice to sell as price goes up. I think if Drooy gets to $15 or so
I will sell %80 and keep 20%. I can sleep better that way. I don"t think
I have seen so negative a sentiment on anything as much as gold now. The
force of the ralley in gold stocks will surprise everyone. Nobody, even
the news letter writers see anything happening fast. Even Blanchard says
it will take a long time. The last time I remember such sentiment was
silver in late 78. One thing about the markets they are always right so
we will wait and see. All aboard for PM"s NOW!!! GD

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:13 - ID#215208)
All is well with the PM world ... I think.

Gold - I'm particularly pleased with the way it has held up this week. I'm very tempted to define an upward trending channel for it, but this might jinx it, so I will hold off on this.

Silver - The test is approaching! Silver must break through both the line of resistance connecting the recent highs, and the top of the downward channel, to really be in the clear. It might squeeze out a few more sideways days, but we should see the breakout by the end of next week. Or else .....

Platinum - A strange, very narrow trading band in the last few days, but platinum is holding within the upward trending channel I defined. It still has a long way to go before it must pass the test that silver is approaching this coming week. Platinum certainly doesn't look real strong here, but we should see some strength appearing next week.

Palladium - As each day goes by, it seems more evident that palladium is going to continue to follow its long-standing upward trend line. This should keep platinum moving in the right direction.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:14 - ID#432112)
@ Grizz
Why don't you start a teenie bopper gold Fad?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:15 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 30.47. The 50 day moving average is 30.13. A year ago the ratio was 22.72

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:18 - ID#229277)
Market seems to have lost steam
But you could have said that in Apr or Oct or Dec last year, and then the climb resumed.

But something feels different now. Four months ago everyone expected a steady climb to 10,000, yet the DOW couldn't hold over 9300 in Apr and can't seem to hold even 9000 thru May and Jun. Optimism seems to be evaporating. The bad news from Asia is relentless, and it's hitting the US manufacturing sector. Used to be "peace is breaking out all over" but now there are nukes in South Asia, Baltic clashes and Greeks and Turks rattling sabres, Russians striking, GM workers striking. Hey! Whuhappen?

Let's see. What if a really big company, like, say, Gillette, announces much lower earnings next week. Hmmmmmmm.


(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:19 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .237. The 50 day moving average is .264. A year ago the ratio was .287. My database contains 27 occasions where the XAU closed in the 69.XX range. Ranked according to the gold price, today is #19. The #1 ranking was on 4/24/86 with a gold price of $345.10, an XAU of 69.70, producing a XAU/AU ratio of .202

Strad Master
(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:21 - ID#250297)
ALL: This is the first-time-ever JOINT posting at Kitco! Live from Los Angeles ( drumroll please ) ... PH in LA and Strad Master are at this very moment at the same computer keyboard celebrating after their first rehearsal of Mozart and Handel Violin/Viola duets. ( Raising a glass to Tolerant and a special gulp for the Island that is Long crowd! ) The smoke from our collective bows should be visible all the way to Cherokee's camp. Hot stuff!!

At last look, gold and silver were holding steady and we would appreciate feedback on the effect on said metals prices from the effects of our musical collaboration.

We are available to perform at the Kitco bash. Anyone want to send us tickets?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:22 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 55.29. The 50 day moving average is 53.66. A year ago the ratio was 70.94.

John Disney__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:23 - ID#24135)
Gold may fall to marginal cost of production ??
To all
Wow .. rand at 6 !! The earlier cost calculations
on the MARGINALS put average costs at about $280 .
The Rand was about 4.5 then .. with the Rand at 6 ..
that means average costs on the marginals will
drop to around 280 *4.5/6 = $210.
If commodities routinely fall to their marginal
cost of production, then it gets pretty easy to see
a $225 gold price at this rand level. Very interesting.
Maybe the rand will drop further .. where might gold go
then ?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:25 - ID#26793)
The numbers below are all 50 day moving averages.
Spot gold $298.52; spot silver $5.58; XAU 78.85

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:26 - ID#229277)
Gollum: expectations/reality chart
That's what I had in mind a few weeks ago when I said I was going to count down EPS versus up EPS announcements per day over the last year. A more crude measure than what you suggest but still a potential leading indicator. Haven't figured out how to do it yet, tho. Trying to automate an archive search by date for "EPS" and "up" and "down" and "revised" etc... Slow going...

Gold Dancer
(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:29 - ID#377196)
John Exter
Did I get the spelling right. Some years ago he wrote an article saying
that some day the $ would get real strong bringing a bust to the rest
of the world because the dollar is the reserve currency and debts are
denominated in $ so every one would need them. This was how you could
tell when we were close to the end. Then gold would be the only thing
to be of any use because the dollar would then go down because we can't
sell to a busted world. Does anyone remember that piece. Here we are
now!!!!Train in leaving the station....GD

Strad Master
(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:30 - ID#250297)
"I can't provide any references at the moment but I'll look it up. I have read reports from both astronmers and geologists indicating these possibilties." Thanks. You do that. Get back to me on it. OK?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:31 - ID#222235)
How about a 49er American Girl Doll complete with a bag of gold? Judging from their catalogue, parents won't blink at the price.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:31 - ID#26793)
Friday night special.
Priced in pre-1933 dollars the Dow closed the week at 629.81. The 50 day moving average is 622.89

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:35 - ID#262242)
Strad Master
Congrats on the duet Strad. Sure would like to see you at the Kitco bash where wise heads will get together and solve the worlds problems. I understand that some people in high government circles are calling this the 2nd G7 meeting ( smile ) . If A.G and R.R. show up we will have to lecture them on the proper way to handle our nations money. The world will be waiting with bated breath for the results of the meeting.

God Bless you and yours

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:37 - ID#26793)
Gold and silver coin prices at 11AM today.

John Disney__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:37 - ID#24135)
This is really fun
To All
I sure do enjoy listening to you guys talk about
whether to sell drooy at $15 or hold for $50. If I
didnt know better, I'd never believe it was headed for
$2 and going in the wrong direction.
I love these lets pretend games .. when do we play
doctors and nurses.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:40 - ID#432112)
@ Gold Dancer
Don't put the cart before the horse. The strong dollar is not causing the problem... it is the result. Nevertheless, when the masses lose faith in the dollar, LOOK OUT!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:41 - ID#288295)
Dueling roosters

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:42 - ID#26793)
Ban sought on sea treasure hunters

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:42 - ID#288295)
Aragorn III @ Roosters

That was for you.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:42 - ID#432112)
Excuse me all...I hear GoldiLots Callin'.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:42 - ID#317193)
The question is: How long does the dollar stay at its present level?


(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:52 - ID#343171)
Silverbaron 14:15 post
excerpt from hiding coins article:
About hiding things in your freezer: If you must hide something there, at least camouflage it. Take half-gallon milk carton, cut off the pyramidal top, and slice down the corners about 3 inches. Put it in the sink, fill it with water, line the sides with fish fillets, then put in gold or silver coins. At the top put more fish fillets. Fold down the flaps of the carton, cover it with aluminum foil, and put it in your freezer.

What if I only have 100 kilo bars?

Gold Dancer
(Fri Jun 26 1998 17:58 - ID#377196)
@John Disney
We play doctor and nurses at DROOY .50. I'll need several..

John Disney__A
(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:02 - ID#24135)
The Rand moves FAST !!
To all
Rand top here was 5.69 on my download .. I was trading
UK bank so I doubt if they got a look at anything much
over 5.75 before closing. Seems like the high numbers came
in later NY trading but market would have been very
thin at that stage.
Best I could have done would have been 5.7 I think.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:02 - ID#20748)
Looking for more Bookmarks ?
Try this.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:03 - ID#43349)
The difference between this losing steam and those losing steams is that the market is strting to be effected by reality instead of non issues.

When it attempts a rally it sputters and fails whereas before an attempted rally would catch fire and burn down several more acres.

Then no one pais attention to whether it was within the realm of reality for a stock to generate the growth neccesary to justify it's p/e. Noew even a darling like gets downrated.

Before it would just rest a bit to let a little more steam into the cylinders, but now it's running out of steam altogether.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:06 - ID#72316)
why $ ? @ EJ 14.33
I read this somewhere today but it makes sense.. Even thouh they may hate America, deep down inside there is a part of them that wants what the U.S has.

I suppose this is summed up by pictures of people all over the world who proudly wear anything with some kind of American sports logo or equivalent advertising on it..

@Gollum,,, hasn't ARAMCO just sprouted more heads?


(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:07 - ID#210235)
@Getting a little closer to war

Here are two opposing viewpoints from the neighbors:

Richard Maybury describes the action in Kosovo as a distracting element, which will pull the US away from the Persian Gulf, where the stakes are highest. Did you know the much-reduced US forces are now present in over 100 countries? Clinton is a man who loves to meddle. As his old flame, Jennifer Flowers, said, Clinton gets into trouble because of his "propensity to take chances".

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:09 - ID#288295)

Terrific link site - Thanks!!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:11 - ID#432157)
Japan-China Hope youall read USAGOLD to-day Mr.Yen says game is over

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:13 - ID#432157)
So serious are Japan's economic problems that Eisuke Sakakibara, also known as "Mr. Yen" ( due to his ability to move currency markets ) commented today: "We are in a serious crisis, probably the first crisis after the end of the war ( World War Two ) . I am not 100 percent sure if we can overcome it." After realizing that he had committed a Freudian slip of the tongue, i.e. by revealing Japan's worst fears, he quickly backtracked and amended his remarks by telling Reuters "he was fully confident that Japan could overcome its problems." It is well-known that Mr. Sakakibara is believed to be the architect behind last week's joint U.S.-Japan currency intervention.


Aragorn III
(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:14 - ID#212323)
Silverbaron...I just now saw your 17:41
...and knew it was for me, even before scanning ahead to your 17:42. THANKS! I think I liked your graphics even better. Within the next month I will be adding a handfull of these beauties to my shiney pile. I don't currently have any, and when you can get this kind of beauty at near bullion value, well...a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.
That was a great site you posted. I browsed around and liked what I saw.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:14 - ID#317193)
Grains and gold....
Commodities, real assets, will rise as paper assets fall. Grains will lead if the weather dictates. US Paper is not burning yet. Wait for the signs to appear. Be patient.

$US will buy more now than any other currency. Never expect to time a top or bottom. Anywhere around 10% of either is spectacular. Wait for the dollar top and a confirmation of the down move and then go long on the shares.

Buy as much physical as you want around $290 or less if you plan to hold long term. I do not expect spot gold under $283 but I can't predict the future any better than anyone else. Gold @ $270 or so is not out of the question. I doubt it but I'll wait for confirmation on the dollar losing value before going into gold shares.

Grains down the last two days...brokers saying the weather has not been as bad as first thought...bullish@t. Buy these dips in grains. Wait for the scorching heat to fry the grains. Two or three weeks before we know if we are in big trouble. Go long one or two contracts early...take your loss if your wrong. Double up if your right.

Disney...Brother oris...thanks, I needed that last week.


(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:15 - ID#407135)
DJ's Chart
Nice chart DJ thanks, now if I can just work out how to print it on one page

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:16 - ID#350179)
Just what they need...
Online Investing For Teens Is Marketing Tool
I wonder if they give out leverage cards too...

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:18 - ID#298259)
If you are still out there...I waited, and waited and waited and no return call ( after my 2nd attempt to wait on the line ) . Called a 3rd time and Adrian ( pres. ) had left for the day and apparently he is the only one available to take shareholder calls.

I asked for an email address and got Is IAN affiliated with Sonoma?

I am going to put together an email and let him know if I don't hear back I will be calling him early next week.

Hope we both do ok on this one.

Mountain Goat
(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:19 - ID#349183)
@Trinovant, Gold Dancer, & all

Welcome Gold Dancer... It made me very happy to find this place too, where there are experts from many fields all working together.
( Notice I DIDN'T say *agreeing* ;- )

Date: Fri Jun 26 1998 16:33
Trinovant ( -then gold may start to have its day. ) ID#359316:

Date: Fri Jun 26 1998 16:33
Trinovant ( Sideways ) ID#359316:
until the buy and hold mutual funders discover that they've stopped
making 30% p.a. returns, then down.

Trinovant: I ABSOLUTELY agree. I work in a cube warren, just recently came from TCI ( now AT&T! ) and am generally SURROUNDED by novice investors of the white collar who have more $ than investment sense.

They want RETURNS, and they want 'em NOW! If they see a quarter of 0 returns, and especially one where they *lose* money, they'll get out. And with all the doomsday talk of Y2K, etc. they'll be out by mid 1999 at the latest. They aren't stupid. Greedy and green, but not stupid.

I see mutual funds slacking off Q3 1998, dropping off a bit more sharply Q4,
and 1999 could be anything: slow slide to a drop off, crash, general bear, ? I can't read my co-workers well enough to know.


MG ( Go Gold! )

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:24 - ID#350179)
Is it illegal to gold-leaf a dollar bill, or is that "defacing"?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:30 - ID#350179)
That should have been
Is it *legal* to ...
Mountain Goat, you are not alone.
Gold Dancer - welcome ( you'll love the food fights )
Perhaps Hep can come back and give us 3-2-5 again. Which reminds me, last July sucked.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:34 - ID#287186)
SUN - that is. Check this out!

516 grains of 9/10 fine Gold, 0.9675 ozt of GOLD!
34mm in diameter by 2.1mm thick.
Mint 100 million new ones with a face value of US$1000

The Eagle was 258 grains and 27mm x 1.7mm
Mint 200 million new ones of face value US$500

The $5 Half Eagle was 129 grains and 21.6mm x 1.3mm
Mint 500 million 103.2gr ones of face value US$200

The $2.50 Quarter Eagle was 64.5 grs, 18mm x 0.95mm
Mint 1 BILLION 51.6gr ones of face value US$100
{there are about 3 billion $100 notes in circulation}

The $1 Gold Dollar was 25.8 grs, and 15mm x 0.55mm
Mint 2 BILLION new ones with a face value of US$50
{there are about 1 billion $50 notes in circulation}

This minting would absorb 15 thousand tonnes of GOLD.
If that doesn't INCREASE THE POG nothing will!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:46 - ID#340302)
Re: My earlier apologies....
...fingers typing faster than the brain earlier today.

CORRECTION: Paul SAMUELSON ( NOT Salomon ) and NOW Henry Kaufman warning of imminent stock market debacle.

Very interesting development for these two economists to develop a consensus on such a matter ( and publicize it broadly too! ) .

Kaufman is normally quite sanguine and optimistic about matters. Does NOT like to sound alarms. What a change!

Are Greenspan and Rubin listening? They better.



...and now, back to that DOW/NASDAQ party going in full gear...

"I can hear music, sweet sweet music, the sounds of singing, baby, ringing in my ears."*

*thanks to Brian Wilson.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:49 - ID#287186)
Much ado about nothing much.
Physical effects = big deal!
Psychological and mass hysteria effects - Hmmmm!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:52 - ID#432157)
farfal--please give URL's or source of information or background

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:53 - ID#237264)

After reading your 17:01, I had some second thoughts and while still considering the millenium gold coin a joke because its a commemorative and if it was bought out ( buying 1000 tonnes of gold coin is a massive feat ) become ready melt to depress gold down the line.

I think a group of producers should after a concrete agreement with the various CB's be allowed to mint COUNTRY SPECIFIC COINS ( from production and CB sales ) that would be used in commerce and having a fluctuating value BASED ON THE GOLD PRICE AT THE TIME. This would discourage meltdown.

Such coins could be sold at any business location, not only at banks etc and could be forerunners to US Treasury Gold and Silver Certificates that would be convertible to treasury gold, which would further be subjected to a monthly inventories as to its existance at FK.

I don't like the idea of a common world coin as that stinks of what they seem to be leading us to.

Mountain Goat
(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:53 - ID#349183)
@Squirrel (& Grizz)
Oh squirrelly one; Thanks for all the info on the acceptablilty, circulatability ( a new word! ) , and mintability of Gold and Silver coinage over the last few days. You've done a good bit of research on the subject, I see.

In some ways I don't think it'll matter too much if the grocer will accept a gold coin for vittles, assuming things go bad. My reasoning is that Gold will convert at a very reasonable exchange rate to dollars ( or whatever fiat currency ) , and the grocer will accept those. Even if hyperinflation existed you could still exchange metal for whatever paper was worth at that moment, then go spend it quickly.

In any case, as Farfel always used to say, before the "New Paradigm" bus ran him over: I don't care, I'm buying more!

MG ( Go Gold! )

Strad Master
(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:57 - ID#250297)
Planetary alignment
SQUIRREL: Thanks for the sanity injection. As I said, its just common sense.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 18:59 - ID#43460)
Squirrel, did you just pull the $1000 figure out of your hollow tree?
I was looking at coin prices today and saw the price of a common date circulated double eagle was between $505 and $520. Now if you figure that the wage for day labor in the early 1900s was a dollar a day in many areas of the country that comes to 20 days of labor for a double eagle. $505 is just a tad over ten days. Nowadays, counting employer contribution to social security 20 days of day labor comes to about $1000 ( unless you're a Democratic Party bigwig in which case you pay half that under the table for your domestic workers and don't withold any taxes ) . IMHO

So your $1000 fair value guess for a modern double eagle monitary coin actually has more basis than some would conjecture. ( 8-^ ) ) IMHO

(Fri Jun 26 1998 19:05 - ID#293379)
Silver still dropping...

COMEX metal warehouse stocks - Jun 26

GOLD 1010619 ounces unch
SILVER 85748443 ounces dn 1029442
HG COPPER 64882 tons dn 449

(Fri Jun 26 1998 19:07 - ID#350179)
geoffs - what I could find
INTERVIEW--US stocks worry Fed--Nobelist Samuelson

Independent Committee Of Eminent Persons
This is two years old

I always pass through Japan or Switzerland on these things.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 19:29 - ID#288295)
Aragorn III @ Roosters

If you're into the market for Roosters, shop around - there seems to be a good supply of these ( Who know where they come from? ) . $67-68/each seems to be a common price for BU condition. The last time I bought more than a few I did shop for prices, and National Gold Exchange had them for 5% or 6% over bullion. It is a beautiful coin, rivaling the St. Gaudens $20 for tops on my list.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 19:31 - ID#432148)
MM Emminent Persons url
Thanks much for this, have copied and will give to a friend who has a claim from U.S. I, frankly, do not look unkindly on the Swiss. They did more good than harm in my book. In a tough position at the time. I do worry about possible repercussions from the aggressiveness of what is going on. It should be tampered.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 19:41 - ID#288295)
Get some BIG cartons and LOTS of fish?? Or perhaps just paint them black and use them for boat anchors. ( :^ ) )

Mike Sheller
(Fri Jun 26 1998 20:00 - ID#347447)
Strad, Squirrel
The problem with most people who talk about "planetary alignments" is that anless they are astrologers, they do not relate them to relevant horoscopes. Sure, there may be some "gravitational" and "force field" effects, but the real tangible proof of action is in relation to specific horoscopes. In June of 2000 Jupiter and Saturn come together in a Grand conjunction RIGHT ON THE DEGREE OF THE SUN IN THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE'S HOROSCOPE. This very important phenomenon also makes powerful aspects to the horoscope of both Israel and the U.S. WHAT will transpire is anyone's guess, but if you're asking an old astrologer, occultist, and market observer like me, I would venture to say the stock market will be in tank city, and tanks may be in some cities we wouldn't want to know from, if you get my drift. Get real...get gold!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 20:10 - ID#401460)
The Fed

More $ in system!


(Fri Jun 26 1998 20:19 - ID#256326)
Thank you for the gravity/tides post and sites. I look forward to being able to continue to go to the beach during the grand alignment.

It should be noted that astronomers, astro-physicists, and astrologers do not attribute all earthly effects of foreign bodies to gravity. Indeed, the effects of the Sun, Moon, and planets on the earthly ionosphere, with its voltage differential of 300,000 volts from top to earth surface, is far greater than the gravity effect in terms of variability. Just the effect of the earth's diurnal rotation causes the ionosphere to rise from ~ 70 to 200 miles twice per 24 hours. Also the solar spot cycle and other solar system cycles affect this important orbital shield.

Although astrology may be successfully looked as a Jungian or mythical construct, there is some evidence that the planets do have effects which are not limited to the square of the distance as is gravity. Thus while the Moon has a far greater effect upon tides, as you cited, and the Sun has a far greater effect upon the ionosphere than the Moon, empirical astrological data have traditionally shown an effect on human and meteorological action which is unexplained by gravity or electrostatic force fields.

Paul Kammerer ( in the 1920's ) developed a theory that force vectors set into motion at a given time do not dissipate as mandated by the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which maintains that order dissolves into chaos, the so-called entropy theory. Furthermore Kammerers concepts are reinforced by modern chaos and fractal theory which demonstrate that portions of systems adumbrate the whole and vice versa.

Last year there were some reports from the University of Innsbruck Dept. of Astrophysics that energy clusters/force vectors could be tramsmitted in wave form and "reconstructed" an at distant sites. While this is far from proving anything with regard to astrological lore, it does suggest that there are other energy transformation systems in the universe in addition to the ones discovered in the 17th and 19th centuries.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 20:25 - ID#255151)

1. Mike Sheller--A fine read, your June 23 1998 piece at the Gold-you know what-Eagle. Makes Greenspan seem more a Hamlet than a Machiavelli. A viewpoint I share as well. 2. Stradmaster--How are you on composing music? How about Kitco commissioning a piece called The Goldbug Variations, by Bart. 3. ANOTHER July 4th weekend approaches. Remember what happened last time that occured. 4. Thinking about buying some LEAP puts on some high flying bank stocks.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 20:39 - ID#20748)
Vote for Forbes. He asks for 'at least' 325 gold.
Extracts from the July 6 Fact and Comment section of the Forbes Magazine.

"The federal Reserve continues to tighten at a time when the increasingly parched world economy is screaming for fresh liquidity. That's why the dollar gold price has fallen, and most commodity indexes are undergoing downward pressure."

"The Fed must ease until the price of gold, the best real time indicator of monetary temperatures, reaches at least $325. This would not be inflationary: rather, it would avoid deflation."

(Fri Jun 26 1998 20:50 - ID#255151)

Three-Two-Five. Even Forbes is saying that now. I love it! BTW, thanks for that bookmark on market data and opinion. Very comprehensive. They even had a link to Kitco.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 20:50 - ID#413109)
Volume Watch
As stated in earlier posts, the average Joe, often doesn't have the
information or is unable to interpret fundamentals correctly, and that
is why the charts and other technicl info, becomes interesting and
Golds at the moment are not doing much in either direction and volume
seems to be on the low side. Even though I am bullish both long and
short term, this is a factor, that I'm watching closely. I believe we
should move out of the current trading range soom and hopefully on
increased volume.

A case in point caught my eye this early morn, of a stock I use as
one of several as an indicator. Take the time to look at this one
and check out both the pattern, the MACD and especially this week's

Get the picture?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 20:54 - ID#335190)
FWIW @ Interesting that UAW workers are given medical benefits YET other USofA workers are not.????
Jay Gould 1886: "I can hire half the working class, to kill the other half"

Soooooooooo, UAW workers have total health benefits coverage, and other fellow worker's/citizen's/taxpayer's, are not given the same benefits, yet, many go to work each day, and have no medical coverage, low wages, etc. etc. Freedom and Brotherhood eh! Free enterprise, market forces, etc. etc.

GM has taken a good position, now all other non-union USofA workers are mad as hell, and no support will be given to these striker's. That is why the UAW leaders are Policemen ( serve and protect whom? ) , many rank and file USofA union members, are aware that their strike looks bad, and yet they are doing what any USofA worker would do, try to prevent their jobs from going off shore. The actions of GM are very interesting, to say the least, as are "their" union leaders. Labour-Management-Government partnership right?

GM moves to cut off strikers' health care benefits

DETROIT, June 26 ( Reuters ) - Taking another jab at the United Auto Workers, General Motors Corp. said Friday it will cut off health care benefits for 9,200 strikers in Flint, Mich., and may do the same to more than 150,000 other workers idled by the two parts plant walkouts.

GM spokesman Gerry Holmes said the benefits cut, which takes effect on July 1, is part of a crash effort by the automaker to conserve cash as its North American vehicle operations grind to a halt.

Although GM has not cut off health care benefits for the 162,600 other UAW workers idled by parts shortages from the Flint strikes the automaker may decide to do so in the future.

"It's one of our options," Holmes said. "It's a heavy cost."

Health care benefits for GM-UAW workers, among the best in the nation, cost the automaker about $4.8 billion a year, or $400 million a month.
Unlike most American workers, GM's UAW members do not pay any premiums or co-payments for their coverage.

Officials at UAW headquarters in Detroit could not be reached for comment on Friday, but strikers in Flint said they believe the union will pay the health care premiums as part of strike benefits. The UAW has done so in the past.

Picking up the premiums, particularly for non-striking idled workers, would further deplete the UAW's $735 million strike fund, which also pays workers $150 a week in benfits.

GM's strike-induced paralysis caused estimated U.S. vehicle production this week to fall 30 percent, to 175,688 cars and trucks from 228,395 built the same week last year, according to Ward's Automotive Reports, an industry trade publication.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 20:57 - ID#413109)
Excuse the screwup
But it was out of my hands. The stock is "T" and it was the weekly
with volume and MACD or stochastics which I wanted to show. Try it
yourlef as the sevice doesn't seem to allow the transfer of the
finsihed product.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:05 - ID#373284)
Hmmmmmmmmmm, Mike Sheller.................Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm,
In YOUR HONOR a candle is ill wind shall befall the GOODNESS...
NAMASTE'.................a privialege

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:05 - ID#190411)
How are your goldstocks doing this week?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:06 - ID#340302)
SILVER COMEX STOCKS at record low & SUNSHINE looks pretty good...
When silver gets back to $7.00 an ounce, Sunshine ( SSC ) should have conservative valuation of $2.25-$2.50 a share ( with Pirquitas NOW factored in ) .

Pick up your 100,000 shares while the stuff is cheap.

BUENOS AIRES, June 26 ( Reuters ) - Argentina's Pirquitas silver mine will start production in late 2000 -- still in time to take advantage of low silver stocks, a top project official said.

Pirquitas will be Argentina's largest silver producer and one of the foremost in Latin America, said Bill Pincus, general manager of operator Sunshine Argentina Inc.

Annual production is pegged at nine million Troy ounces of silver and 4,000 tonnes of tin in concentrates stretching over 10 years. Currently the deposit boasts 70,000 Troy ounces of proven and probable silver reserves and 37,000 tonnes of tin.

"Our goal by the end of this drilling season in October is to have 90 million ounces in proven and probable reserves," Pincus told Reuters.

The mine's lifespan could double if continued exploration uncovers suspected further reserves.

"I would be very surprised if over 10 years we don't add another 50,000 to 100,000 ounces of silver ( reserves ) ," said Pincus.

Tucked amid dry rolling hills 4,200 meters above sea level in northwest Juyuy province, Pirquitas was bought by U.S.-based Sunshine Mining and Refining Co ( Nyse:SSC ) for $1.7 million in 1995.

The mine had been worked from 1936 to 1990 by Sociedad Minera Pirquitas Picchetti, which pulled out 27 million ounces of silver and 20,000 tonnes of tin before going bust in 1990.

Sunshine has put $10 million into a feasibility study expected to be released by October. Financing is seen arranged by first quarter 1999, with an 18-month construction period starting the second quarter.

"After an initial shakedown phase of a few months we anticipate full production in the beginning of the year 2001," said Pincus.

Total investment is pegged at $115 million, with annual operating costs approaching $24 million.

Whereas the old Pirquitas was an underground mine producing 500 tonnes of ore per day, the new operation will be an open pit moving 5,000 tonnes of ore and 35,000 tonnes of earth daily.

The ore grade is 5.5 ounces per tonne of silver and 0.29 percent tin.

The mine's concentrate will be transported by truck down to the Argentine port of Rosario or the Chilean ports of Iquique or Antofagasta. Smelters in Japan or Europe should receive the silver, while tin could go to the Vinto smelter in Bolivia or to Malaysia.

At a silver price of $7 per ounce, annual revenues could run from $55 million to $70 million, said Pincus when the mine starts up. Tin, currently selling for $5,500 per tonne, would comprise 20 percent of the spoils.

Silver bullion was selling at $7.28 an ounce on February 4 following billionaire investor Warren Buffet's disclosure he was holding 20 percent of the world's stock. Since then the price has stabilized at around $6.00 per ounce.

According to the CPM Group, in 1997 world supply of silver was 658 million ounces while world demand was 843 million ounces. A further shortfall of 150 million ounces is seen by industry experts this year as the oversupply of the late 1970s and early 1980s is reduced, Pincus said.

"Since 1990 about one billion ounces more silver have been consumed than have been produced," he said.

Of 450 million Troy ounces in industrial demand for silver in 1997, photographic film absorbed 172 million Troy ounces, followed by 87 million Troy ounces used for silverware and jewelry and 69 million Troy ounces for electronics and batteries.

India is the biggest world consumer, with 120 million Troy ounces snapped up in 1997. The United States, Japan and Italy are also among the list of top buyers.

In addition to a rollercoaster silver price, another concern for the Pirquitas site is its remote location, which may make retention for the staff of 350 employees difficult.

A minor social problem may also be present involving big industry moving in on the 12 remaining families in the old town, which consists of little more than a school, a town hall and a decommissioned church. Pincus said Sunshine is giving priority to townspeople looking for work and making small contributions to the community.

"We installed a television in the school for the World Cup," he said.

The Pirquitas project is Sunshine's first mining venture outside of the United States. The company's main operation is the Sunshine Mine in the Coeur d'Alene silver belt in northern Idaho, which recovered 2.58 million Troy ounces of silver in 1996.

Quote for referenced ticker symbols: SSC
 1998, Reuters

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:12 - ID#207145)
Bought gold today,
So i guess i have till tomorrow to keep my Posterior intact. I think Japan has some religion, so at least PR wise, the Yen should rise for awhile. It makes sense. I smell a gold rally. I know that sounds bad, but it's my first entry in a long time. Bonds may be topping out for awhile. ( money flowing to market ) . If it doesnt work,,,, que sera,sera.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:19 - ID#207145)
Do I detect a little anti gold in your posting? Farfel talk to Earle, Farfel, Farfel where are you, oh optimistic one? Let's watch next week. The Japs got it, religion that is. Sneak attack at dawn on dollar.Man that sounds bad.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:23 - ID#210114)
Just Beaming In........
Hi everyone!! My computer has been down so I've missed a lot of news. Would be particularly interested in reading any posts about planned CB purchases.

Live Long and Propser.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:27 - ID#207145)
Press releases, bank mergers etc.
2 banks announced a merger today. One was a troubled one. Darby Mulaney said it might confirm seriousness about solving banking situation. The Yen is going to go up, it is in the cards. Temporary unfortunately. Good times till end or third week of July. Como si como sa pisane. Bob Pisane.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:33 - ID#207145)
Gold rally might be temporary.
By 23 of July or so. Asia rules. I plan to sell into this rally into July. Sell into strength.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:36 - ID#342315)
There is an abundance of mag field data for the earth, but it is very difficult to find out about the electrical field. Your post attributes to you much about this field. Could you refer me to appropriate sources here? If you prefer email, mine is Thanx a bunch, Charlie

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:38 - ID#256326)
What a diference a year makes?????
I am grateful to Gold ( en ) Eagle for continuing to carry a post I made there a year ago this week. I am even more astonished that what I wrote then has any relevance at all today. Usually anything I say is "inoperative", as Mr Nixon used to say, within days. I am tempted to think that something which remains relevant after a year ( by my own admission....;- ) may be more real than something which doesn't. Let me know if you agree or not.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:40 - ID#256326)
what a diference
Well I cannot get the URL to load, but you can go to golden eagle and look under Analysis for "Is Gold Dead?". Sorry for the incovenience.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:40 - ID#207145)
My drillers got punted today,
Good thing i bought at old 52 week low. Today was a fresh 52 week low, OOOOOOOUUUUCCCHHH.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:44 - ID#411331)
@ all: One year lease rates rose from 2.06 to 2.09 today. It's a
small move, but it is in the right direction.
Forward rates remain unchanged at 3.75% for one year.

We want 1 yr. lease rates up to 3%k and 1 yr forwards
below 2.5% to begin the bull.

I have been keeping some powder dry, and
am considering hgmcy ( Harmony Gold ) at
3 7/8. Any comments? This is already so
cheap that I am enveloped in a feeling of
unreality as I ring up my broker.
Buying hgmcy at under $4 is like buying
gold in the ground at under $4. Duh!!!
Or have I slipped a decimal?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:52 - ID#207145)
Sentiment is so bad here,
That I feel good about buying gold today. It was a small purchase. We'll see.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 21:59 - ID#335190)
Organ Harvesting @ New investment eh! ( Money will buy health-life
Medical group advocates regulated sale of organs

LONDON ( AP ) -- A legal market should be created for people to buy and sell nonvital organs for transplant, a team of doctors and ethicists says.

The group's proposal was attacked as "quite outrageous" by Britain's main opposition party, the Conservatives.

"Any lifting of the ban would lead inevitably to the exploitation of vulnerable members of society, especially the poor, whose financial plight could lead them to endanger their own lives for the sake of a few hundred pounds," said Conservative MP Ann Widdecombe.

The Lancet report countered that criticism, saying some people are so poor that living with fewer nonvital organs would be the least of their worries.

"The poorer a potential vendor, the more likely it is that the sale of a kidney will be worth whatever risk there is," it said, adding that kidney donors do not face large health risks.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:00 - ID#373284)
Mike Sheller, Namaste'
I, ME, have tried to speak in such a manner regarding Mike ShellerHmmmmmmmmI do not know if you have ever been to Canadadriving across the great highwayHmmmmmmmmfor meMike Sheller is the free standing air in one of them pay by the bucket Honey sheltershonestywhat a concept.

Mike Sheller is a privilege

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:00 - ID#207145)
Commies march 200 million troops
past Clinton in review. Bet a little pee ran down his leg as he thought about China's bright and scary future. Scary for us. Now they know merv ( and i don't mean Griffin ) .
(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:03 - ID#434108)
Oil&Gold/In appreciation, & in response to a fellow-kitcoite's request for my copyright permission.
I am flattered, and re-assured, that my thoughts, ideas,
and most humble opinions..... are not shared... in vain,
nor ignored.... by my most admired and esteemed,
fellow-contributors .... at kitco.
Sincerely, I appreciate "SWP1"'s request for my permission, to re-copy/ re-post, transmit, or otherwise re-send/-publish, my post of 6/26/98, at 11:45, titled: "A Losing Game:The Flood This Time".
'SWP1': By all fumbling, rambling remarks may be shared...
where-ever, and with whomever, you ( & any of you ) believe.....
may find my thoughts & opinions, of interest.

I would ask only that you include my name as author/originator, as follows:
David Blair Macrory
San Diego, California, U.S.A.
( In other words, full re-production rights/permission...
are/is granted, if disclosure of the author, and
originating source, is also provided. )

As added background, and giving credit where it may be due; my article/post - "A Losing Game: The Flood This Time" at 11:45//6/26/98, was prompted/inspired/ Gollum's 8:41 post to
' ( @EJ ) '.

And I'd also like to thank all of of you, who responded to my 11:45
post/article, this morning, 6/26/98; including my
gratitude to those of you who contributed, this morning,
on this subject of "oil, gold, & money":

and others.
"A word fitly spoken,
is like apples of gold,
in pictures of silver."
( Proverbs 25:11 )

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:05 - ID#43460)
Oddity of the market SWC and price of platinum
Like most village idiots I like to spend a lot of time resting, snooping into other people's business and resting some more. Today as I was doing so I came across the fact that platinum is just up from its annual low but SWC is within spitting distance of it annual high. Must be the palladium factor?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:07 - ID#190411)
Nah, I don't need any cheerleading.
I posted earlier, two days ago that I went 1000 Newmont Gold.
So. I'm as loopy as you. and moreso than farfel.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:07 - ID#207145)
Enjoyed it man, thanks.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:12 - ID#207145)
10-4 man. If you're as loopy as me you need help. Good a time as any to see. If it doesn't work, I sell. I hate losses. Wheres my Lithium, hell prozac will do.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:13 - ID#335190)
Japan death in China @ Canada USofA afraid of 85 & 74 year old soldier's true story.
Canada keeps out Japanese veterans who admit war atrocities

TORONTO ( CP ) -- A former Japanese army doctor is in Canada to speak against the horrors of war he once witnessed at close range, but two other veterans who wanted to tell of their own roles in atrocities were denied entry.

Shinozuka and Ogawa travelled as far as Chicago before they were stopped at the airport by U.S. authorities. Shinozuka was sent back to Japan. Azuma did not leave Japan because of illness.

Ogawa, 85, was grilled for hours before being allowed to travel on to Toronto.

Ogawa's story pales in comparison with those expected from the barred speakers.

Shinozuka, 74, was part of wartime Japan's notorious Unit 731 which conducted biological weapons experiments on civilians and prisoners of war in northeast China.

American historian Sheldon Harris said what Unit 731 did was beyond imagination. "We're talking about innocent people just hauled into laboratories and cut open," he said. Biological warfare germs were released on entire villages, killing thousands of people.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:16 - ID#190411)
I have an urge to sell SWC, but I will wait a bit longer to see how COT's for PGM's shake out.

Wow. Studio sure is out on a limb with my worst share- RANGY.
Root for us, we'll need it.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:21 - ID#190411)
bloomer, King of typo's
I be ERLE, not to be confused with the Earl. Earl is the one who has been around here far longer than I. He is more experienced and has faster cars, and women than I could ever aspire to.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:23 - ID#43460)
6pak Thanks for the URL
This lends credence to what I've said before. China has been an historic friend of the US. Without help from the US they would have been conquered by Japan and without help from them the Japanese would have sooner or later taken Hawaii and Alaska. I think that a less spineless president would do better in trade, human rights and defense negotiations but thats another matter. IMHO

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:29 - ID#43460)
ERLE Yup, me too!
Thats my motto "Sell the winners and let the losers run"....NOT! But it is a real temptation to sell SWC for a profit. I keep telling myself though that its not a gold mining stock, its a catalytic convertor and fuel cell raw material stock. Then I read more about the GM strike and a wave of nausea goes through me. Then I think about all the catalytic convertors that ford, Crysler, Nissan and Toyota use. Like an emotional roller coster! Up, down and all around! Look at that 3 month chart! IMHO

If I really had the long term players mindset I'd only look at my stocks once a month but its more fun this way! IMHO

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:31 - ID#335190)
China & Japan @ WWII Horror
"The fellow knew that it was over for him, and so he didn't struggle." recalled the old former medical assistant of a Japanese Army unit in China in World War II, "But when I picked up the scalpel that's when he began screaming. I cut him open from the chest to the stomach, and he screamed terribly, and his face was all twisted in agony. He made this unimaginable sound, he was screaming so horribly.

But then finally he stopped." The former medical assistant who insisted on anonymity, explained the reason for the vivisection.

The Chinese prisoner had been deliberately infected with the plague as part of a research project - the full horror of which is only now emerging - acting on secret orders from Emperor Hirohito, Japanese Army set up Headquarters of Unit 731 & Unit 100 near Harbin, China to develope plague bombs for use in WWII.

After infecting him, the researchers decided to cut him open to see what the disease does to a man's inside. NO anesthetic was used, he said, out of concern that it might have an effect on the results.

The research program was one of the great secrets of Japan during and after World War II : a vast project to develope weapons of biological warfare, including plague, anthrax, cholera and a dozen other pathogens. Unit 731 & Unit 100 was comprised of over 3,000 researchers and technicians. It was a gigantic research center focused on biological weapons. Used human as the guinea pigs, known as "logs".

This article talks about Japanese doing vivisection of human beings for germ war experiments, mostly at Unit 731. Documents about germ war experiments at other places, including experiments on Americans will be added soon.

Unlocking a Deadly Secret

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:35 - ID#256326)
golden eagle
I have discovered the by-now famous golden eagle/Kitco program conflict ( anti-competitive??? ) . One needs to erase the ( en ) in a text editor and THEN load the URL in an address window.

This probably won't work either but maybe Professor Vronsky will happen by...........geez louise...........

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:38 - ID#43460)
Wrong URL, this is the one with THIS years platinum prices listed

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:41 - ID#256326)
6pak on efficiency
I recently visited Auschwitz in Poland and the feelings I had there were just agonizngly rekindled by your post. The Germans and Japanese are very difficult to understand or relate to in most ways, but they are undeniably the most efficient and scientific butchers in history.

Lurker 777
(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:45 - ID#317247)
No more excuses! I have been posting this system since last December and no one should be loosing more than 5% of you hard earned money investing in Gold. I have covered my ASSests and best of all I take position of the Gold.
At today's prices: Buy 100 Philharmonic coins for $30,651.84 or $306.52 per oz. and buy one December 1999 290 put ( 100 oz. contract ) for $840. ( )
Total cost per coin with put option is $314.92 each.
If Gold drops below $290 per oz. you can sell your coins for 3.3% over spot ( ) and your downside risk is only 5%. Gold has to be higher than $314.92 to make money but you have until December 1999!
The Austrian Philharmoiker one oz. 999.9% pure Gold coins have the highest monetary face value of any Gold bullion coin ( 2000 Shilling or $155.00 U.S. ) and are the biggest seller in the world. AND as a added bonus, if the Gold price were to collapse the coins could be redeemed for their face value.

Has anyone tried this system? Does anyone know of a more conservative way to invest in real Gold?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:46 - ID#227290)
Frustrated & IAN
I just saw your post. I talked with Adrian today. First, yes, Sonoma and IAN share the same office and management, although Adrian is not on the board of Sonoma, he is quite connected.
IAN has an agreement for a jv to drill the Guyana prop. It is not with Bema, but another company.
Northern Platinum should begin its summer exploration program at Wellgreen in the Yukon around mid-July.
These are the two major projects IAN is involved in. Although the markets in general are weak, this doesn't account for the major weakness in this stock.
There were over 330,000 shares traded today. No, someone is getting out at any price.
Is it management? Adrian says no. He told me a "fund was selling." But at the time, I didn't have the presence of mind to ask him which one. I know that the Midas Fund used to own some shares, but I assumed they had sold them a long time ago.
But the price action in IAN suggests that someone like a mutual fund is getting out.
I know of two guys who are large shareholders. I talked to one on the phone last night. At the time, there was no jv to drill in Guyana. He may have bailed out today. He would have nearly 300,000 shares. He's that type of investor.
In short, from what is known and knowable, there is no reason for the stock to be acting like it has. So, either management is up to something and is not telling me the truth, or someone big is liquidating his shares for reasons unconnected to the fundamentals of the company, but for his own purposes.
I don't know. It is a puzzle.

The Frustrated Preacher

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:48 - ID#287358)
Ah, Sunshine in proper doses is lovely. Good article on Sunshine by
Farfel at 21:06, but the numbers are farfeled. Some ",000" are missing.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:54 - ID#207145)
Earle, You've got aq way with words,
Unfortunately it's the wrong way . Dont worry yourself about my typos, as typing was a wussy thing to take when I was in school. I know from your smart mouth you're a lot younger than me.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:55 - ID#207145)
Earle, You've got aq way with words,
Unfortunately it's the wrong way . Dont worry yourself about my typos, as typing was a wussy thing to take when I was in school. I know from your smart mouth you're a lot younger than me.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:56 - ID#207145)
You're the Duke of Earle, Duh. You're a sweetheart of a typist.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:56 - ID#373284)
6PAK, Namaste'

(Fri Jun 26 1998 22:57 - ID#207145)
You're the Duke of Earle, Duh. You're a sweetheart of a typist.

Lurker 777
(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:03 - ID#317247)
Has anyone loss money investing in GOLD?
I challenge anyone to come up with a better system to buy REAL GOLD ( physical ) for delivery with less than a 5% downside risk until December 1999! See Date: Fri Jun 26 1998 22:45
Lurker 777 ( YOU CAN'T LOOSE ( much ) ) ID#317247:

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:06 - ID#431263)
INTO THE TOILET! Not good for RSA mining stocks despite Disney's contention otherwise! All who think it is should read today's commentary on the Rand intervention at USA GOLD. Where will the Rand stop? 6? 7? 8?
10? RSA is nearly out of reserves to defend it, so now its up to the DEEP pockets of the US and Britain to come to the Rand's rescue--otherwise, it will go the way of the Peso, the Ruble, the Ringgit and the Baht--and FAAAAAST! US investors will shun SA stocks until they're sure that the currency has been sufficiently brought back to reality, i.e. devalued! NEXT!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:09 - ID#222235)
Are you on ICQ yet? Don't see ya there, but I'm looking.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:14 - ID#335190)
Good People do bad things @ Not all Japanese and German people are bad eh!
"For America to Live, Europe Must Die"

Being is a spiritual proposition. Gaining is a material act.
Traditionally, American Indians have always attempted to be the best people they could.

Part of that spiritual process was and is to give away wealth, to discard wealth in order not to gain. Material gain is an indicator of false status among traditional people, while it is "proof that the system works" to Europeans.

Clearly, there are two completely opposing views at issue here, and Marxism is very far over to the other side from the American Indian view. But lets look at a major implication of this; it is not merely an intellectual debate.

The European materialist tradition of despiritualizing the universe is very similar to the mental process which goes into dehumanizing another person.

And who seems most expert at dehumanizing other people? And why? Soldiers who have seen a lot of combat learn to do this to the enemy before going back into combat. Murderers do it before going out to commit murder.

Nazi SS guards did it to concentration camp inmates. Cops do it. Corporation leaders do it to the workers they send into uranium mines and steel mills. Politicians do it to everyone in sight.

And what the process has in common for each group doing the dehumanizing is that it makes it all right to kill and otherwise destroy other people.
One of the Christian commandments says, "Thou shalt not kill," at least not humans, so the trick is to mentally convert the victims into nonhumans.

Then you can proclaim violation of your own commandment as a virtue.

So, I suppose to conclude this, I would state clearly that leading anyone toward Marxism is the last thing on my mind. Marxism is as alien to my culture as capitalism and Christianity are.

In fact, I can say I don't think I'm trying to lead anyone toward anything. To some extent I tried to be a "leader," in the sense that white media like to use that term, when the American Indian Movement was a young organization. This was a result of a confusion that I no longer have. You cannot be everything to everyone. I do not propose to be used in such a fashion by my enemies. I am not a leader. I am an Oglala Lakota patriot. This is all I want and all I need to be. And I am very comfortable with who I am.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:16 - ID#256326)
Never having been a member of a secret society except THE Secret Society, I have pondered the meaning of the ubiquitous letters "namast" in your greetings. If it were truly secret I guessed you would not use it freely. If it were educational I thought its meaning would be shared with bystanders. If it were an "in-group" "thing" my guess was you would use it only with selected individuals accompanied by a knowing wink. Sine I cannot see you nor is it ever accompanied by an emoticon wink.

It sounded faintly Persian, but I could not find it in my Persian dictionary.

Enlighten me, kind sir. Thank you in advance.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:18 - ID#190411)
Your 22:00 was witty, and scary at once.
I'm not trying to be a smartass, I just want the confusion about the names to end.
I have great respect for Earl.
Maybe, I should have used another name as a poster other than my real name.
Gagnrad started with 223, or lurker223, his real name from his home planet. But, he changed his to one that can be confused by noone.
I am a toolmaker-businessman by trade, maybe I should try Haephestos for a new name. I bet you'd have a ball with that one.

Anyway, blooper, I enjoy your stuff. ( I can't type worth a darn, I proofread; that's what takes me so long to reply. )

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:20 - ID#286230)
Hope for Gold Bugs

Thriving bacteria colonies found in frozen polar lake

WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- It is terribly cold all of the time and completely dark for months on end, but colonies of microbes still manage to thrive inside solid blocks of ice in the lakes of Antarctica, new research shows.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:21 - ID#373284)
aurophile, Namaste'

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:24 - ID#222235)
Here is the quick definition of Namast for your pleasure.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:25 - ID#256326)
6PAK/ old-time religion
It is true that all men are capable of such bestiality regardless of beliefs. Even the noble Sioux, as my fathers called them, were known to dehumanize their victims on occasion before dispatching them in some rather curious ways. And we know what my Christian fathers were capable of.

One man's bestiality often IS his religion. This is one reason I hate religion.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:29 - ID#256326)
Thank you muchly. I knew it must be an Indo-european word. Peace and "have a nice day" to youse too...

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:32 - ID#433143)
I dont unerstand,
why whenever a link to vronskys site is posted everyone feels compelled to put a damn en after gold! What purpose does this serve, except making it take longer to reach said url? Is it considered advertising, for we post other urls to other websites? huh dunno it just annoys me to have to cut n paste.. heh

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:34 - ID#373284)
Prometheus, Namaste'
And when he first understood sound his ear became valuable...but then his eyes and mind exploded...words she spoke introduced canvas...

splash...Lady...within the hollow that his dreams never knew to stand outside of...

He most heartily said HELLO!!!...water found color and babies known as pastel were bourne...........

Love YOU Lady...............................

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:39 - ID#222235)
@Thanks, Tolly. S'mutual
I guess this means you're not on ICQ. OK.
See ya.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:40 - ID#431263)
I got a whole bunch of non-confirmations and technical divergences on my screen tonight! One bad report, domestic or international, will send the bulls racin' for cover! Our dead analyst bounce and mutual fund window dressing this past week is all but over and now comes the stark reality of imploding markets from Japan and Asia to Russia, South Africa and S. America! With the Euro only six months away and Y2K on the horizon, the equity markets are about to start the discount process BIG TIME and it's gonna' be bloody! The world is getting' sick of US global interventionism and global monetary hegemony. The tide is beginning to turn AGAINST the Dollar! And the FED IS DAMNED IF IT DOES LOWER RATES AND DAMNED IF IT DOESN'T! Either way, the game for the dollar is over and the NEW GAME in town will be COMMODITIES AND GOLD! Yin/Yang, El Nino/La Nina, Paper/gold--the times they are a'changin'! Yes?

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:46 - ID#227290)
Silver Standard
This has been a busy evening for Silver Standard Resources -- SSO. First it announced some credible drill results from its Bowdens project in NSW, Australia.
And now it has dropped a bombshell: SILVER STANDARD WITHDRAWS FROM LUNNOE IN RUSSIA.
If you remember, earlier this week I wrote that after talking with SSO in Vancouver last week, it was obvious they were having a lot of trouble in Russia. Now, after having spent almost $5 million, they're packing it in.
I think this is a good move. The company still has about $5 million left. And deposits in more politically safe places are being sold on the cheap today.
One guy said to me yesterday: "Why are we looking for new orebodies when existing orebodies can be bought for less than it costs to drill new ones?

The Preacher

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:49 - ID#45173)
Gollum: re your Fri Jun 26 1998 18:03
Egg Zackly. The hog is in the tunnel.

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:53 - ID#431263)
I like SSO's statement about existing mines being cheaper than exploring for new ones! I look for a massive new wave of gold mining aquisitions and mergers in the next 6-12 months! Only the strongest and biggest will survive. RSA mines have already consolidated and have made it all but impossible for S. African mutual funds to diversify their holdings. Same thing will happen everywhere else! CONSOLIDATE or CLOSE will be the mantra heard 'round the globe! The result will be LESS PRODUCTION and HIGHER PRICES!

(Fri Jun 26 1998 23:57 - ID#233199)
Anyone here live in NFLD
( That's Newfoudland [understan?] to everybody else. )