Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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(Mon Jun 29 1998 00:00 - ID#45173)
Gollum: that stupid talking dog of mine is hiding under the bed all day
and won't come out. Even left his favorite treats in the den -- single malt scotch and Macanudo cigars. Seems like something's got him spooked. I can't figure out what it is. Tomorrow's just another Monday.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 00:04 - ID#43349)
Weekends on this forum are a bit of a free for all. It's a long time between the close on Friday and the beginnings on Monday and everyond has a chance to talk of many things, vent frustrations, look for encouragements, and in general unwind and prepare for the next weeks
fray. If a person is going to feel gloom, weekends are the place to do it and get ti out of the way so it won't further dull the mind and heart as the new week begins.

So now, back to the monitors.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 00:08 - ID#284255)
Infrastructure Protection Task Force
Lots of Eagles here or are they turkeys??

(Mon Jun 29 1998 00:11 - ID#43349)
My friend the Cheshire cat opines that the talking dog is probably just waiting for The FOMC to decide what it's going to do before doing much more talking.

The cat also says it's friend Neko says things are quite a bit less tense in Tokyo and some companies are actually going to start buying back stock.

I asked it what that meant for the US matkets today, but it just grinned at me.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 00:13 - ID#43349)
Let's hope not too many hawks.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 00:23 - ID#43349)
Off to retire and see how it looks in the morning.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 00:24 - ID#227168)
Some late night reading
Each year, more investors fall prey to the "desert-dirt" hucksters who swear they have found a way to detect gold reputable assay laboratories can not detect. One such property in Oregon became, at various times, "the world's largest platinum deposit" and ( in those pre-Bre-X days ) "the world's largest gold deposit." Many millions of dollars were raised before investors found out that the promoters were living in grand style at their expense.

One of the companies even had its own secret lab in the desert, which churned out such good assay results that a suspicious employee decided to investigate why he was never able to find anything using conventional methods. The answer was simple; the reagents ( the chemicals used in the assay process ) were loaded with gold. Another company claimed its samples had to be "pre-treated," ostensibly to crack the complex mineralogy, before being sent for assaying. "Pre-treated" they were: gold was always found in samples after pre-treatment had put it there.

The problem of dirt-pile swindles became so common in the 1980s that the Northwest Mining Association warned that, in 1987 alone, about $250 million was lost to gold scams, most of which involved "black-box" assaying or "pre-treatment" methods.

The desert-dirt promoters argue that they are on the leading edge of technology and that their new assaying and recovery "methods" are actually a scientific breakthrough. That would only be true if their claims were based on scientific fact, which they are not. One company claimed its gold could be detected only when sunspots flared, while another claimed its desert-dirt compounds could cure cancer and AIDS. Then there was the unforgettable "transient gold," which appeared and disappeared depending on when the analysis took place. Another feature of desert-dirt promotions is that they typically run out of steam after futile and expensive efforts are made to find a "recovery method." ( If you can't assay it, how can you recover it? ) The stories sold to investors were often so bizarre that sophisticated investors and industry people are amazed how anyone could fall for such nonsense. They forget that most people -- including many market regulators -- have little or no knowledge of how mineral exploration, mining and science really work, so nothing is done and the desert-dirt hucksters continue to peddle their wares. If anything, the lack of action by regulators has generated a desert-dirt boom in the southwestern United States, resulting in losses that probably pass the billion-dollar mark in this decade alone.

Regulators often argue that nothing can be done to prevent these swindlers, who operate on the margins of the industry. Nonsense. Decades ago, cooked assay scams caused untold headaches for the Vancouver Stock Exchange and securities regulators. But the VSE then developed a strict disclosure policy on assaying. The policy forced dirt-pile swindlers to head for other jurisdictions, especially the Nasdaq and the U.S. over-the-counter market, where they proliferate today. The notorious Delgratia Mining voluntarily surrendered its VSE listing just before taking on the Josh property in Nevada, whose gold later proved to be a desert phantom.

North American exchanges could nip the dirt-pile problem in the bud by adopting similar policies, and perhaps taking them one step further.

Companies using proprietary assaying methods or uncertified labs unacceptable to the exchanges should be forced to disclose, on an ongoing basis, the results of conventional ( fire-assaying ) methods on untreated duplicate samples from a reputable lab.

If the results differ wildly, the exchanges and regulators should send out an independent expert to collect samples and have them assayed using three methods; the unconventional method used by the company, traditional fire assay, and neutron activation analysis ( NAA ) .

Neutron activation works by directly irradiating gold atoms with neutrons, changing their atomic weight and making them unstable. The analyst then measures the intensity of secondary radiation from the activated gold to determine the gold concentration in the sample. If there is gold in the samples, NAA will detect it, no matter how complex the associated mineralogy, no matter how much platinum comes with it, and no matter how small the "microclusters" are. For this reason, American securities regulators have often described the method as "the last word in gold content." The exchanges can easily formalize NAA's role to protect investors.

If NAA and fire-assay methods do not find gold, the promotion should be shut down and the company's principals held accountable. The ugly alternative is to let the dirt-pile swindlers carry on their imposture, and give mining a bad name.


(Mon Jun 29 1998 00:29 - ID#284255)
Like inflation Hawks???

Seems more like a flock of Bustards... ( sp )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 00:37 - ID#45173)
Gollum: That may be so. He did mumble between whimpers something about employment
numbers. I guess they're supposed to be good, more people have jobs. Of course the market hates that, it's inflationary. They'll have already forgotten that AG very recently said not to worry about inflation and rate hikes, that waves of cheap Asian goods were taking care of the US inflation problem. And how!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 00:49 - ID#215379)
one of favorite sayings
hard to soar like an eagle if you are only a turkey

(Mon Jun 29 1998 00:51 - ID#227168)
"Some call it treason"
The philosophy of those in power in China ( and many other places in the world ) is this: Stay in power as long as you can no matter if it means wholesale torture or murder or drug addition en masse. Grab all the loot you can while you can. Some of these ideas have rubbed off on our own government. Those of you who still believe in the rule of the majority are country bumpkin populists, totally unsophisticated, totally unrealistic.

Patriotism is obsolete; globalism is now the vogue. You just don't know how the world operates. The name of the game is, for a price, transfer as much public money as you can to those who will pay you for it. This is a partial list:

A 138 million dollar loan guarantee to China to build four ships for COSCO ( China Ocean Shipping Company ) . Twenty-five years to repay. Loan guaranteed by U.S. taxpayers.

An attempt to deliver a lease on the former naval facility at Long Beach to COSCO.

Early withdrawal from the Panama Canal zone and help to the Chinese Companies which secured leases on port facilities at both ends of the Panama Canal. American companies were not given a chance to bid.

China is being allowed to run up an annual trade deficit in excess of fifty billion dollars. Free trade with China? They still maintain their tariff barriers against us.

A known Chinese agent was given top security clearance by the White House.

The White House wishes to sell top secret technology to the Chinese in spite of the fact that they have, in violation of previous agreements, been reselling the technology to Iran.

A refusal to help the World Heath Organization trace poison to its source, poison which, mixed into children's medicine, killed 80 Haitian children. The poison was known to come from China, but the White House refused to put any pressure on the government of China to find out the name of the company which manufactured the poisonous substance.

The Duncan Hunter Bill which would have prevented the Chinese from leasing closed military bases was passed with the proviso that Clinton could allow such leases if there was no national security involved!

The Chinese are now attempting to establish a free trade zone at the former Castle Air Force Base in Atwater, California. When and if they get this lease we can expect their trade deficit to go even higher than it is now. We can also expect that it will be almost impossible for customs officials to check for contraband.

It has been reported that George Bush once said, "Don't Pay any attention to what I say; watch what I do." Clinton made a big show of standing up for human rights in China during the recent visit of Premier Jiang Zemin, but China has been treated so well that some call it treason. What will come next, the keys to Fort Knox?

Mike K__A
(Mon Jun 29 1998 01:03 - ID#153283)
Gold Commentary in 4 parts
From the publisher:

J. Orlin Grabbe is one of the leading experts in the expanding area of financial data encryption systems being developed for the new CyberEconomy. He is also one of the world's leading experts on international finance. His textbooks on the subject are ubiquitous in top universities worldwide. No serious student of international finance is unaware of who he is and what he has done. He is a Harvard Ph.D. While a professor at Wharton, he trained many of the top traders and derivatives experts as well as the "quants" who run Wall Street's automated

computer trading systems.

Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug
(Mon Jun 29 1998 01:06 - ID#432214)
Zemin's comments on Gold
Did anyone watch the debate between Clinton and Zemin on the 27th. During the debate when they were talking about the Dalai Lama. Zemin stated that China had spent over 100 million Ranmimbi and spent 1 ton of gold in the repair of the Dalai Lama's temples. In the speach it was obvious that Zemin clearly made a distinction between gold and the Ranmimbi. Perhaps a little insight into the Eastern view of Gold.

It was also obvious that he placed importance on the fact that China had spent over 1 ton of gold on the Dalai Lama. It is also clear that he does not belive that gold is just another commodity, because he would not have made the distinction between his currency and gold if that was the case. A western leader would not say we spent 100 million dollars on a renovation project and also spent 1 ton of gold on the project. The total costs of the project would be accounted for in dollars and no distinction would have been made.


(Mon Jun 29 1998 01:12 - ID#284255)
Definately 'BUSTARDS'
National ID card on fast track
Transportation Department already making the rules
By David M. Bresnahan, Copyright 1998,

Like it or not, the day is fast approaching when every American will
carry a nat'l identification card. Those who do not have one will be denied
many basic services.

Little notice was given to the issue in 1996 when Congress passed the
Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act. One section
of the act requires all states to make their driver's licenses comply with
certain guidelines found in Section 656 ( b ) of the act.

Federal agencies will be required to prohibit the use of state drivers'
licenses beginning Oct. 1, 2000, unless they comply with the federal
standards. The new licenses must use the SS# number as the driver's license
number, for example.

The act also calls for digitized biometric information to be a part of
each license, or "smart card." This information will not be required
initially. But later, the biometric information will include fingerprints,
retina scans, DNA prints, and other similar information.

Responsibility for the design and implementation of the cards has been
given to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the Dept of
Transportation. That agency has recently published the proposed "Driver's
License/SSN/National Identification Document," which contains the guidelines
which must be in force by Oct. 1, 2000. The "Notice of Proposed Rule Making"
sets out the standards for each state to follow in the design of "identifi
cation documents."

"These new National ID regulations violate every notion of federalism,
because they force states to comply with regulations issued by the federal
government without any constitutional authority to do so," says Patrick
Poole of the Free Congress Foundation. "Nor are federal agencies empowered
to force state to gather detailed information on every person in order to
comply with federal mandates. The net result of the DOT's regulations is
to establish a national ID system, which has been opposed by almost every
non-governmental sector for the past five decades."

Shortly after the passage of the act by congress, Utah state Rep. Gerry
A. Adair introduced a bill to comply with the federal requirements. The
level of opposition from the public was extensive, which Adair said at
the time surprised him. The bill was defeated and was regarded as one of
the most controversial bills of that session.

States which fail to comply with the federal requirements will impose
difficulties on their citizens.

Without the new card it may become impossible to:
purchase firearms,
get a job,
board a plane,
cash a check,
open a bank or investment account,
purchase insurance,
receive federal benefits,
obtain a student loan,
receive Medicare or Medicaid benefits,
and many more basic services presently taken for granted according
to Poole.

Once the card is in use, Poole suggests that privacy will be a thing
of the past. Information will be easily available about all aspects of
every American's life. The information stored in each card will be held
in a computer chip imbedded in the card, which may one day be injected
under a person's skin. Experiments testing such an identification system
have already been conducted on military personnel and for identification
security at the Olympics.

For those who point to the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, Poole
explains that President Bill Clinton recently signed Executive Order 13083
entitled "Federalism." That document effectively gives authority to the
federal government to force anything it wants on states. No effort was
made by anyone in Congress to overturn the Executive Order.

Conservatives went to their legislators in 1995 to protest an effort by
Utah Gov. Mike Leavitt to establish a Conference of the States to address
the issue of states rights and federalism. Leavitt campaigned hard and
pointed to a federal government that had overstepped its intended role
and authority by imposing unfunded mandates on states. Conservatives
succeeded in defeating the effort but have thus far remained relatively
silent about the recent Executive Order 13083.

Phyllis Schlafly, president of Eagle Forum surprisingly had no comment
on the Executive Order. Leavitt could not be reached for comment, but he
has been very outspoken on states rights in the past.

The executive order apparently sets the stage for the federal government
to dictate anything it wants to the states. Compliance will be mandated
and states rights will be a thing of the past, according to Poole. He said
he would not be surprised to see more mandates such as the national ID card
forced upon unwilling states and citizens.

There is still time for individuals to comment on the Notice of Proposed
Rulemaking. All comments must be in writing and are limited to a maximum of
15 pages and must be received no later than Aug. 3, 1998. Two copies of your
comments should be sent to Docket No. NHTSA-98-3945, Docket Management Room
PL-401, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Nassif Building,
400 Seventh Street, S.W., Washington, D.C. 20590. Place the docket number
on each page of your comments.

Poole also suggests individuals contact their congressional representatives.
"They passed this thing, and they can change it if they hear from enough
people," he said.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 01:22 - ID#284255)
A city persons guide to relocating on a farm
( formerly known as "A Cowboy's Guide To A Happy Life" )

1. Never kick a fresh cow chip on a hot day.

2. There's two theories to arguin' with a woman. Neither one works.

3. Don't worry about bitin' off more than you can chew. Your mouth is
probably a whole lot bigger'n you think.

4. If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around.

5. Never ask a man the size of his spread.

6. After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.

7. If you find yourself in a hole the first thing to do is stop diggin'.

8. Never smack a man who's chewin' tobacco.

9. It don't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep.

10. Never ask a barber if he thinks you need a haircut.

11. Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.

12. Always drink upstream from the herd.

13. Never drop your gun to hug a grizzly.

14. If you're ridin' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then to make sure it's still there.

15. When you give a lesson in meanness to a critter or a person, don't
be surprised if they learn their lesson.

16. When you're throwin' your weight around, be ready to have it thrown around by somebody else.

17. Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier 'n puttin' it back.

18. Always take a good look at what you're about to eat. It's not so
important to know what it is, but it's critical to know what it was.

19. The quickest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it back in your pocket.

20. Never miss a good chance to shut up.

21. Never put your shoes on without shaking them out.

22. If it looks like a may not be. ( snake )

23. Animals that would be an irritation in the city, become dinner in the country.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 01:30 - ID#284255)
A million problems over two lousy digits
Article should be titled ;

"A million reasons to buy gold."

Back to the paint brush so I can buy some gold....

(Mon Jun 29 1998 01:43 - ID#402131)
Loved that one. Made copies for the wife. She likes old cowboys

(Mon Jun 29 1998 01:56 - ID#257148)
Thanks to the Stralians.....
many thanks to you and others for your info on the 1 Kg kookaburra set. I was offered it at the issue price A$895 for 45 oz of silver. ALthough well below your catalogue's current price, and although they are beautiful ( I went into the shop today and hefted the 1 Kg Kookaburra coin ) just can't see liquidity, which is a prime consideration for me. I asked Nick@Candelabra about the coins too, but my emails bounced back to me, perhaps he's buying New Zealand and does not wish to be bothered.

Can you say nothing without plumbing the depths of personal abuse?

I chose not to play your game. I stand by my comment about Madame de Witt, that you gotta admire the balls of the woman. It takes real stuff to take such an obviously unpopular move as to shave the exercise price of the executive options. If I was a shareholder I'd be really p!ssed off. But, don't you see? If she can stand so far against popular opinion to do something as obviously self-serving as shave the option price, then she has the gumption and the strength of character to take other, unpopular iconochlastic steps at another time. And, you know what makes money? That's right, unpopular iconochlastic investment choices. One would expect that this woman will do something as brilliantly selfish again, and, who knows, if you're a shareholder THEN, you'll praise her originality.

Yes, I admire Iconoclasts, those who stand against popular opinion who say "damn the torpedoes" grit the teeth and make a move.

Seeing as how it seems you need everyone to agree with you, and abuse those who don't, I'm not suprised you cannot see the splendid Machiaevellian action of Mdme de Witt as an act of Freedom & Liberation, why, it's as Merkan as Apple Pie. This was, after all a contract between the company and the option holders, therefore able to be varied by the parties at will. May I assume you believe in the sanctity of contract? As before, I emphasise, that were I a shareholder I'd be pissed off, but, my merkan friend, it is bizness, the good old capitalist system in all its imperfect glory.

And, I for one, like the freemarket.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 02:10 - ID#206358)
interesting on!
Found one quite good site about the finacial data page

(Mon Jun 29 1998 02:20 - ID#257148)
Introducing, Dr Don Brash, Governor Reserve Bank of NZ a man not know for
exuberance nor incautios speach

Reserve Bank Warns of Biggest Shock Since The Oil Crisis>








...The easing was fuelled by a speech on Friday from ( Reserve Bank Governor, Dr ) Brash, who warned Asia's financial crisis may turn out to be the most serious shock to hit New Zealand's economy since the oil shocks of the 1970s. Brash foreshadowed the possibility that over the next one or two years the bank might have to fight to stop inflation breaching the bottom of its 0-3 percent target band.

John Disney__A
(Mon Jun 29 1998 02:28 - ID#24135)
The Farfel .. an extinct wingless bird
To all ..
Farfel, poor thing, finally seems to have lost it..

Another subject .. as a result of the slide in the
Rand and the Aussie dollar, the cost of producing a
lot of the world's gold has fallen like a stone..
I see no way that this can be interpreted as bullish
for the POG.
You can present a similar argument for the price of
the PGM in view of the drop in the rand and the Ruble.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 02:37 - ID#257148)
do have a wee peek below, at one of my recent posts, farfel has fallen far indeed. Does make ya wonder about RYO, though. I mean this guy has been wrong so often, PGU springs readily to mind that he has to be considered an assett as a contrarian or kicking post. Where's that Puetz. Oh, now that's interesting. Didn't F* appear about the same time that P* disappeared?
Must be dreaming, P* at least had done some original research ( though it happened to be flawed ) you can't blame a man for trying. Na, F**P*

salty, not crabby, just salty.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 02:40 - ID#257148)
I meant F*=P* not
but my "unequal" sign did not map onto kitco.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 02:42 - ID#252150)
Aurator@Yes he could, except for 2 reasons: intelect & imagination.
F* Can you say nothing without plumbing the depths of personal abuse?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 02:51 - ID#252150)
John D.@Did you notice that Farfetched seems to really appreciate posts from
our 2 Countries.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 02:56 - ID#257148)
You know, I don't know if you were around when Mooney was blessing us frequently with his wit and wisdom but some long time ago kitco was beseiged by a Hepcat. It provoked this wonderful piece, can't think why I've been remembering it now..


A Golden Snippet from the Archives of Kitco


"Ode to Hepcat"
The Wind-Sucker when he winx at Kitco seems to have a predilection for garboil. The subsequent dretching of our site is deserving of the cucking-stool. The doctor, ( if such he really be ) seems to have a venatical fixation that also requires he venenate all around. His own fliperous pumpkinification is barely worth a snirtle or a keak. In fact, he is hardly even worthy of the term 'fonkin' or 'fopdoodle'. Heanling, hufty-tufty, killcow, or mobard are terms which so readily come to mind. Zoinks' attempts to brangle and his floccinaucinihilipilification habit evoks the desire to cry 'Gardyloo' and mean it! The effort would, in the end, be wasted. For, as we all by now realise, the Dragoo is nothing more than a whifling.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:03 - ID#252150)
Farfetched is such a loser:
Earth felt the wound, and Nature
from her seat
Sighing through all her works gave
signs of woe,
That all was lost.

John Milton

(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:16 - ID#252150)
Aurator@Yes, I've been around a long time & remember Hepcat & Mooney
Mooney was great with his Lewis Carrol gibberish. But don't insult Hepcat by comparing him to Farfetched. Hepcat, although often tiresome with his self promotion, had something to say & said it with imagination & wit. Two qualities that farfetched is woefully lacking in. Besides, Hepcat distinguished himself by being right, something that Farfetched has yet to do.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:20 - ID#257148)
You are quite correct, I stand corrected

Three Two Five

(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:22 - ID#340302)
The great thing about the fall of the Rand is, not so much the issue of its effects on the price of gold, but rather the ultimate impoverishment of dickheads like PissPee who, when economic hardship gets really intense down there, will probably have their assets and properties expropriated by the failing SA government. Deservedly so...for being abject idiots!

Speaking of expropriation, since Moronator is such a fawning disciple of Herr-ess Witte and her happy band of Royal Oak Robbers ( since, in his mind, she represents the apotheosis of pure capitalism...and he admires scoundrels who have the balls "to change the rules" ) , then he too should be delighted when his "new" government comes along someday and "changes the rules," expropriating all his ( putatively ) hard-earned assets. Bound to happen since, he too, is living in the midst of a collapsing economy.

And what about James...great admirer of intellect...or should I say, imbibing... prone to heavy indulgences in the old boozola when his wife is away ( who can blame her? ) , happily liquoring himself up into a state of abject incoherence.

What does it all mean?

It means, back off f**kheads, or I will rip your blathering nonsense into shreds ( and you along with it ) in a manner that will make my friend RJ seem the epitome of cool composure.

Oh, thanks.


(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:27 - ID#252150)
Farfetched@I have heard empty threats before
but none as empty as yours. You are but a fart in a hurricane.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:29 - ID#340302)
And you are but a Jackass in a Booze Bottle.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:33 - ID#252150)
Farfetched@You need a better drug.
the sh!t that you are using now is'nt doing a thing for you.

Interesting Times
(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:33 - ID#423355)
so's yer ole man
Well, at least we have the introductions out of the way...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:36 - ID#252150)
Farfetched@One thing I can count on, is your stupendous, boring nonsense
to put me to sleep. Nytol.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:36 - ID#340302)
Yeah, I wish I could just be a plain old alcoholic like a lot cheaper anyway.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:39 - ID#340302)
@JANES...'ve been sleepwalking since you were's just nobody bothered to tell you.

Have another drink on me, Lush!



(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:41 - ID#257148)
Mo, ya gotta come back... I can't do this on my own.. well, I can, but I'd like you around.....
delighted, no. Unsuprised, yes.

" then he too should be delighted when his "new" government comes along someday and "changes the rules," expropriating all his ( putatively ) hard-earned assets. Bound to happen since, he too, is living in the midst of a collapsing economy. "

I is happening as we speak, uncouthed-tongud one. But, I am unsuprised because I expect nothing more from gobmint that this. Why do you rail so at the Free Market? Do you wish for the fetters of Socialism? Yes, de Witt has the air of a pirate or a robber baron. This is the freemarket. Which part of it would you stifle? Thou who brooks no opposition? Which part of freedom would you exchange for comforting your pride?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:46 - ID#257148)
Looks like this is the first of better days............

John Disney__A
(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:54 - ID#24135)
The Tragic Tale of Farfel ..
Prince of fools

Alas Poor Farfel .. he hath fallen
far ..

Prince Farfel, Richard of Cranium,
has become dedicated to making an idiot of himself..

Cease thy efforts sweet Prince or we may begin to love
you less..

(Mon Jun 29 1998 03:56 - ID#340302)
F*'s Sign-Off...
State of the World Economy....



S. Africa...collapsing

New Zealand...collapsing


Hong Kong....collapsing







Do you hear America's laughter...sounds something like this...HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA!

And from America to the rest of the world: Go Drown in Your Own Vomit!



(Mon Jun 29 1998 04:02 - ID#39828)
want to be could-a-beens. farfel look the other way
lay of farfel dudes, he is cool, spit swappers and gerblers
have nicknames for eachother.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 04:29 - ID#340344)
Farfel, please just save your little homily for later.

And hey,


(Mon Jun 29 1998 04:33 - ID#153102)
@Gold @NID
China is a princess with two suitors. One suitor offers credit and intends to bind China to a marriage founded on debt. Another suitor offers trade settlement secured by gold. Which shall China choose ? A princess will not hurry to decide. But, no true princess ever will scorn gold.

Itself, moving air is silent; it is the trees that talk in the wind; it is the sails and the water that announce the breeze. Worldwide, the leaves of paper flutter down; regard the gale that looses them from their security. Gold is firm in any tempest.

@National I.D. The frontier of the struggle for freedom under law. We shall see if there still be rule of law; for the right to travel was secured when the Constitution was established.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 04:51 - ID#252127)
Straight pissing

Floating exchange rates are the robber barrons tool for taking over mankind and his property.

First they lend a country enough money ( rope ) to hang themselves, then they send in the pitbulls to attack the country's exchange rate. After their currency value halves -presto- their bill doubles.

Hell, these are benevolent robber barrons and make a deal, they take the property off the hands of the debter, they even create compassion in the hearts of of the global community ( I hate that over worked phrase ) who give willingly of their sweat and security so that Robber Barron Central, the IMF can set up the next victim.

Paul Gold__A
(Mon Jun 29 1998 04:54 - ID#21484)
Mocatta weekly report
The ABSA Mocatta weekly goldwatch report is now available at - click the comment button.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 04:55 - ID#343259)
@Gagnrad. More data on Misra...
Yeah, the whole deal sounds a wee bit fishy... They are "quiet" billionaires... no one knows about it... but now they want to own a professional sports franchise, and no one believes they have the 150-250 MM of extra spending cash, so they bare their financial records to the newspaper ( ? ) to "prove" it, then we depend on the reporter to verify that the records are "genuine", and "accurately appraised"? Why the newspaper? Why not show documents just to the owners of the Vikings? Maybe you are right, its valued in Rupees.

Anyway, FWIW, here's the report of the Real Estate as reported in the paper: ( it *must* be true if it's in the paper ) :- )

"Nevada: 400 Acres of mining land in Central Nevada and 10 acres of vacant parcels in Las Vegas. Appraised at 8.8 Million.

California: 367 acres of land in Los Angeles County. Appraised at $15 million. Also 7,040 acres in unincorporated Riverside County. No appraisal available.

Mexico: Nine ranches near the city of Chihuahua totalling 125,000 acres of developed and undeveloped land. Appraised at 2.72 Billion."

I'll get a map to the warehouse as soon as they print it in the paper. :- )

I know someone posted what all the CB holdings were, but I let it go by. I'd be curious to discover on what scale the "Las Vegas Warehouse" has compared to CB's.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 04:57 - ID#284255)
Perhaps, Perchance, we can have peace amidst all us fools, reflection=creativity - Namaste
Picasso a clown?
And those most astonishing
Works of his creative heart
These but a part
Played for amusement
Of a careless world?
Despite all criticisms hurled
Wordfest of judgment.
Or justly curious,
Or that of the old romantic school.
Scornful or furious.

Picasso a clown?

Perhaps in his human way
He loved to clown
With his beloved Jacqueline
At home or beach or teasing the town.
To clown, and laugh and play
And work, intent and furious
Life to the full each day
His own self, of the work, rich part
Into his flamboyant art.

The zebra pants,
Sox magnificent.
The Big Nose,
Scarlet or Crimson
Vitreous Green or Madder Rose
And the face paint
And the masks
But all a feint,
Yes, fun, mockery and jest
All human gifts that paint
The Master Painter
At his human best.

Picasso, a clown; perhaps
But never a fool or weak
Strong living soul, his art
Made eyes to live and speak,
Most eloquent of love
Of passion; of the human spirit
And of the human heart.

Just a small group - after dinner talk - around the longtable, under the stars, for we ate outside, most evenings, and one of the group said - somewhat dainfully, "Oh, Picasso was a clown."
Hence the poem. Yes he loved to clown, the big nose, the zebra pants and all the zany rest of it; his was a rich innocent humour, familiar and reflected in the simple and often equally zany directness of his work. An understanding of this quality of fun enriches our appreciation of his work; there is also an element of truth in the comment of; "Picasso is the last stone age artist."

Clearly elements of Stone Age artistry survive in many modern schools.

Our Aboriginal artists are purely such, and have aroused the primitive in many; both in artists and in a widely appreciated following.

This emergence is a significant reminder of our primitive background; we are still very close biologically to our beginnings.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 05:03 - ID#284255)
Joyce to the world - forget the criticism
Molly, Joycean affirmation of the soul;
Soul sauce of human life on earth
Birth, Marriage and Death
Each earthy station
Brightlighted by his Irish mirth at birth,
Mismatch of Marriage and a Wake at death.
Our Hatches Matches and Dispatches span
The main events that plan the Fete of Man,
Distil his jests, mix verbwords sad in strife,
Our daze with Molly, lover, leman or wife
Are an Epiphany, rich gift to man
The lights and darks of love t'is clear and plain
Power, pith, purpose and the plan.

Birth Marriage Death three stations of our day
But "I Love You," is Grace; A Glory on the Way.

John Disney__A
(Mon Jun 29 1998 05:08 - ID#24135)
Tango Rhythm ..
for Sharefin ..
While on Joyce ..
Ever heard Sam Barber's setting
of "Solitary Hotel " . You would
like it .. Quite delicious..

(Mon Jun 29 1998 05:16 - ID#284255)
Kitco - a brighter light or avid criticism
The Dark Knight.

Alas for Love
Alas for lone benighted Molly, with her charms
Enchanted Mistress of her Shining Knight at Arms,
Alas t'is Bloom, impotent paramour,
Stands all unwilling, nerveless in his sad alarms,
Incompetent but half a man, Beyond her Door.

Blind Homer coucht long years in Elysian bliss,
Laft till he cried. "Ne'er spoke Ulysses thus" he sed,
"Nor dreamed I, however deep in cup, of verse like this,
Not Helen, nor Cassandra, nor sweet Themis
Nor entered wise Penelope's dear patient head
To speak of such dark thoughts, James Joyce is not Germaine
Tis Womans Business; Secret; so it should remaine."

Why destroy the Beauty; defile the Magic Spell,
Make but the best of Love; Tis fleet; let it be sweet
Treasure the Mystery, the nameless Grace; and never tell.

The Affirmation.

I believe: in the deep heart of that wild countryside where good is so much better than bad, good luck is better than bad luck, good food is better than most, where our good dreams come true, and never the bad ones and no nightmare intrudes, that all Molly wanted was and is to be kissed and caressed, aroused and soothed and in short loved.

I believe: such are the viccisitudes, that Fate was most unkind in offering only Bloom, flowers more appropriate on the 16th, being Bloomsday, the upstaging of Boylan indeed a perversity.

I believe: there is that which is too deep for words, that words can destroy.
The words we say, they mock me
They sunder us, keep us apart
From the deep tender yearning
The passion, the love of the heart.

I believe: That the spiritual journey of Joyce his vocation, his soul purpose of existence was consummated in Ulysses,
his Book of Revelation the substance of things as they are hence no novel but a far far better thing than he had done before which is to say, Dubliners et al. the veritable facts of Life uncorrupted by the inane pretensions of a novelist.

I believe: Having shown with sympathy deep understanding a sweet acknowledgment of that universal creative sentiment in the person of Marion [Molly] Bloom nee Tweedy and attendant sisterhood whose varied and highly intimate roles add stark realism to the story, Joyce has fulfilled his destiny and we men, fellows chaps mates husbands and cuckolds generally, with the buoys and lads taking careful note of our activities accept simple plain and necessary, our function in life philosophically and phlegmatically and fill in as best we can our spare time or time spare from our part in the Divine Comedy.

I believe: that sacred yet most human and commonplace thing, Mother Love, is to be clearly distinguished as it is and separated from that other thing which or witch we know as Mistress ex.
So, of Mater Natures blunt intention there is fortunately nothing left to be said.


This would be early 60's.
Difficult to obtain copies those days.
As has been well said
"The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there."
However we floundered our weigh thru to a copy not too dissicult,
though dysicult to read as we ran.
Sensors in evry coffee cup it seemed.

Likewise and under in the way of common taters,
I misagine Germaine and odder houswises
and utter simples & symbles and cymbals werethereto,
unplotting the intricamistereys of Ulysses,
tho many fall by the waysides, asleep in the Wake
as it were or more profoundly, asleep in the Deep.
Nunsuch and inassuch, his Hero is upstaged by his antihero,
Dadelus payed no doubt his debt to Mater Nature,
even as the Bloom wilted at Her call.

Yeaslater Iseult my "Pomes Penyeach" for cashews
in untimely desperation for shrewbread of Life, or strife, tho
not then wife, bust savoured favoured Fyshenchippies instead.
Butter bitter bargame! Potage for Ancestral Veritage etc.
Wat Iseult betrayed my Tristan! Ah me.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 05:18 - ID#255151)
Diamonds and Shakespeare

Found 14 references to diamonds. The Merchant of Venice Act 3 Scene 1--SHYLOCK: Why, there, there, there, there. A diamond gone. Cost me 2000 ducats in Frankfort." All that research has made me thirsty, someone pass me de beer.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 06:16 - ID#284255)
Verb and vernacular - 'tis such a pleasure....
My father has many pieces on Joyce.
True gobbygook but precious - as is gold.

Currently have 'Finnigan's Wake'
With more to come forth on dissection.

Have not heard of Sam's 'Solitary Hotel'
Could you perchance supply an url?
Or reference to refer to???

T'would be truly appreciated.

Verb and vernacular
Tis a pleasure to behold.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 06:20 - ID#284255)
A Note on Ulysses.
Ulysses is the Roman form of the Greek Odysseus, a major player, a kernel one might say in the present circumstance, in the Greek forces, one of the hard nuts to crack of the Greek host. Not for nothing were the Greeks called Hellenes. This is made clear by the dark fate of the Trojans.

It is hardly surprising that Joyce chose the Roman name for his work, quite apart from the deep symbolism ofUlysses fated journey home, our own journey alongthe Way and Stephen's day Roamin in Dublin. His hero
Dadelus is aptly named after the Greek sculptor and architect; he who designed the great Labyrinth house to restrain theMinatour.
Perhaps a poets fancy, but I fancy Joyce chose the name with scarce veiled reference to the dark mystery of the unstatedpurposes of our life, of our journey within the labyrinth of our emotions our memories, the rigour of
and the fatal flaws of our intelligence, the fears, terrors and exaltations of our human spirit.

And it seems no accident, but an unequivocal understanding of the vicissitudes of an agonising but supremely positive history that his anti-hero is one Leopold Bloom. Civilisation owes more to the spirit, intellect and sheer human qualities of Bloom's peoples than to any other national entity able to lift its head above the morass of our blighted history. Bloom is essential counterpoint, in his human ordinariness to Stephens colder intellectualism.

Ulysses was a powerful catalyst for change; a watershed in the ageless conflict between the old tired generation and the new fighting for its place in the sun. The schism is always fiercest in the Universities and in the literary and artistic worlds. He was indeed contemporary with Picasso
and Shaw and a host of others thronging the streams of that watershed. It is the business of the writer to challenge morality and mortality with humour and courage.
Joyces humour is low life indeed but essentially human.

Though banned in Australia and in other places, copies were to be had here, clandestinely.

To my mind Germaine Greer would certainly have made a point of securing a copy, as would many another rising star of the day, daring both censor and the Establishment. Delighting in the Enlightenment, so to say!
Hence the poetically licensed references to Germaine; Thus I salute you, Madam!

In the meantime dreamtime censors have dyed by the pageside.
Big Bear, indeed! and Enid Blyton!! The filed teeth have rotted! The pointed clause clipped. Today illiterature flows uncensored through our Media, or should it be Medusa?
Poor Fellow my country. The price of liberty is a banal mediocracy, our publishing houses are awash with rubbish - Laptop literacy is upon us. It is the publishers who must exercise a civilized restraint, lest the literature of
three thousand years be lost to our children; and the children of the third and forth generations despise us as fools in our folly.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 06:32 - ID#341189)
JGLD up 3.77% - weak rand
Sharefin - lovely note on Joyce - Thanks

(Mon Jun 29 1998 06:38 - ID#43349)
Monday haiku
Dark mornig wind blows
distant thunder lightning flash
soon there will be rain

(Mon Jun 29 1998 06:38 - ID#341189)
Yeltsin - "No crisis."

(Mon Jun 29 1998 06:41 - ID#341189)
Japan pessimism persists - firmer dollar

(Mon Jun 29 1998 06:43 - ID#341189)
rand pounded by pound

(Mon Jun 29 1998 06:44 - ID#29048)
PEI backing Aussie gold.....
June 29, 1998
Princeton Economics Buys Into Australian Gold Project

Dow Jones Newswires

SYDNEY -- Princeton Economics International Ltd., a U.S.-based financial market analyst and funds manager, has provided a "major injection of capital" into the Charters Towers gold project in Australia's Queensland state, said the project's largest shareholder, Charters Towers Gold Mines NL, Monday.

The amount of the capital injection wasn't disclosed, but Charters Towers
Gold Mines said shareholders will be advised of more details in coming

The refinancing will allow the company to increase its holding in the project to 100% from 75% and was brokered by Cresvale Australia Pty. Ltd., an associate of Princeton Economics.

Cresvale, in a media release, said Princeton Economics has "set in train a process to acquire a majority interest in Charters Towers Gold Mines NL." The purchase is part of an out-of-court settlement Friday, reached in a claim by the board of Charters Towers Gold Mines against project lender Suncorp-Metway Ltd. ( A.SMW ) .

In addition to giving the listed company 100% of the project, at least two new directors will be appointed to the board of Charters Towers Gold Mines, Cresvale said.

Charters Towers Gold Mines' partner in the gold project is the similarly named Charters Towers NL, an unlisted company.

Both companies have been released from receivership following the settlement with Suncorp-Metway.

Charters Towers Gold Mines said Princeton Economics' investment decision is based upon the "inherent value" of Australian assets at a time of a weak Australian dollar. Cresvale said the addition of new funds "is a
substantial vote of confidence in the project and the progress made to date."

In a report to the Australian Stock Exchange in November, the company
said the project has gold resources of more than 430,000 ounces, sufficient to keep the mine operating for eight years.

-By Helen Ubels; 61-2-9262-2622;

(Mon Jun 29 1998 06:47 - ID#341189)
SKorea closes 5 banks, deploys police around them

(Mon Jun 29 1998 06:54 - ID#27341)
Sharefin 23:01-ok,come clean-i thought it was BIG BRO???
no cement boots yet,or straight jacket,still waiting.


ps,don,t pick on the innocent, like daughters.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 06:58 - ID#284255)
Gollum - please excuse the cut and paste...
Nothing demands a something
To define it
Full circle - snake eats tail


A new Age dawns
New hopes and times await us
But, the same human face


This age grows old
The new millennium dawns
But the same moon and sun


Gods, ancient or new
They are the splendid vision
Or a splendid dream


Haiku San
With syllables seventeen
Is humanity exposed


Zen masters care not
Seek wisdom, the way is hard
He has Satori


Cogito ergo sum
Bright dream of this life
But after Death - what then


(Mon Jun 29 1998 07:11 - ID#27341)
i just showed my daughter the security of the net,she believes it now,i have been telling her not to put credit card numbers and such on the computer,can these be extracted from any computer????

(Mon Jun 29 1998 07:15 - ID#365216)
Wanted to buy: Platinum American Liberty Eagles $100 coins
Since it seems that Platinum may be nearing its lows, I am considering purchasing some Platinum 1 ounce American Liberty coins ( US$100 face value ) and would like to get a list of recommended dealers.
Please email me at:

Thank you very much.
PS Were there platinum eagles minted in 1998 also or were they only
planned for 1997?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 07:22 - ID#35571)
Before birth it was
That after death it will be
that is in life's midst

(Mon Jun 29 1998 07:26 - ID#35571)
Goblin persists
Friday afternoon goblin failed. He tried agian when the London markets opened and failed, and again as Hong Kong closed and failed again. Each time higher than before. Goblin is growing weaker.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 07:34 - ID#341189)
AM gold trading comments - forex dominates thinking

(Mon Jun 29 1998 07:43 - ID#341189)
Gold and the rand
Gold is quoted this morning at 1754 rand. This is up from 1375 at its Jan low.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 07:51 - ID#27341)
Gollum Sharefin
have i offended you,if i have please say it like it is, thanks

(Mon Jun 29 1998 07:57 - ID#35571)
With sadness I say
Like it is can not be said
Can only be felt

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:03 - ID#329186)
rhody(your response ID#411331 Sun 28th 18:19
Sorry for delay in reply.

Yes if the Euro comes into being and is a success it would challenge THe US$ and have serious implications for the USA and be bullish for Gold.

My post was to highlight the probability that the Euro may at best be delayed due to the lack of forethought in addressing the Y2K problem which has an immoveable deadline.

Whereas the EURO has not and could have been delayed until Y2K was delt with,as this is a world Problem and from passed observation and pontification of Eurocrats a recession equal or worse than 1929 ~ 1933 would collapse with squabbleing and revert back to nationalities and in fighting for self interest.

Your claim that the Euro is 10% backed by gold is incorect a vague statement was made about Euro reserves being 10% gold which is not the same thing.

The Sunday Business reported "EU banks free to sell gold ?

The humbug surrounding the euro & gold sales is a red herring ....for a market that lacks transparency why do CB's announce gold sales but not say who bought try this country A sell 300 tonnes GOLD to country B and then B sells to C who in turn returns it to A churning net result each country holds the same gold but at a lower value ( again they do not tell what other purchases they have made.......

We must never forget that when physical Gold is sold at whatever price someone has purchased that gold, in all manipulations dissinformation will abound the larger hords of the CB's do not want to lose the ability to manipulate POG

Go gold ( physical )

Ciao,tschuss,a la prochane, agieu


(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:07 - ID#27341)
thanks for a responce,but it has already been felt, cheers

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:16 - ID#45173)
Gollum: Good morning. The talking dog is still cowering under the couch
Guess he's afraid of lightening.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:18 - ID#39828)
Go China Go Gold

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:24 - ID#426220)

Another insightful and incisive report on the market's rapidly deteriorating condition.

"If this is not speculative frenzy run amok, we don't know

what is. Plainly, we are at the pinnacle of the stock

market mania and can expect the popping of the bubble at

any time now. Mindless buying of severely overvalued

technology stocks by investors from companies who cannot hope

to live up to such high expectations, especially in light of the

Asian crisis, and a developing slowdown in the tech sector, is

living proof that rationality has been thrown out the window."

"The long and complex topping process

evidenced in the DJIA and the S&P 500 indices is flashing

a clear bearish warning signal and appears to have

completed its formation."

"speculative frenzy run amok" - and " ultimate resistance has been met."

The stock market's path of least resistance is DECIDELY DOWNWARD.

Full report at following URL - it will be necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before pasting the URL to your Internet locator:

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:26 - ID#45173)
Rate lever stuck in current position, meanwhile deflationary pressure builds
" ( the Asia crisis and ) a collapse in oil prices is also disinflationary, but the Fed would be loathe to ease because of fears about a speculative asset bubble developing."

"...the Fed has been reluctant to raise rates for fears it will send the stock market down as much as 30 percent."


John Disney__A
(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:27 - ID#24135)
For Sharefin..
I suggest etcetera ktc 1055 .. Roberta Alexander
for a set of Barber which includes several other
Joyce settings .. plus "sure on this shining night"
.. words by james agee. These songs are among the
finest in the English Language. Thomas Hampson also
did this song buts he misses completely.
The passage is from Ulysses
"Solitary hotel in mountain pass.
Autumn. Twilight. Fire lit.
In dark corners young men seated.
Young woman enters.
Restless.solitary. She sits.
She goes to window. She stands.
She sits. Twilight. She thinks.
On solitary hotel paper she writes.
She thinks. She writes. She sighs.
Wheels and hoofs. She hurries out.
He comes from his dark corner.
He seizes solitary paper.
He holds it towards fire. Twilight.
He reads. Solitary. WHAT ??
It's sloping upright and backhands.
Queen's Hotel. Queen's hotel. Queen's ho..."

.. Surely "the dead" is the finest short story
ever written.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:27 - ID#35571)
Ohaio Gozaimus, EJ San. This could be kind of an interesting day. The lows for each new attempt by goblin to go short have each been succesively higher. We are awaiting the New York open to see what happens next. Kitco gloom has been very deep over the week end, all signs that the sun may rise in the east this morning after all.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:38 - ID#35571)
Chesshire cat say Meehan is whooping in the dark. Summer rally a fizzle, not a sizzle. GIve market a -50 today.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:40 - ID#36156)
Is it real, or is it just another quotes glitch? Silver down $1.75
Only the BartMan knows for sure...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:41 - ID#433143)
yep they minted 98 platinums, the 97's are numismatics and substantially higher than bullion..

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:45 - ID#36156)
Silver UP $.01 - Ha, ha, BartMan make joke, yes?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:46 - ID#317193)
Currency crisis...what to hold?
In a currency crisis it is wise to hold the currency that is left standing at the end of the crisis. The US$ is well ahead but the race is far from over.

Gold, is that stuff a currency? Hedge your bets, own some.


(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:47 - ID#45173)
Gollum San: Aligato e giemas
The markets may wait until tomorrow to move. There is anxiety building in some areas and easing in others. Yet no longer is all news good news to the market, whether it bodes well or ill, as before, and there is attention to the actuals. News may be taken either way, but tending toward caution. The market is not expecting suprise news. The dog is hiding because he thinks a surprise or two is lurking. But beware! He may charge out at any moment! And his bite is worse than his breath!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:48 - ID#35571)
S&P futures up 3.50
Cheshire cat say S&P futures also whooping in the dark, gives market -70

(Mon Jun 29 1998 08:57 - ID#35571)
Goblins in retreat
Gold and silver both looking good this Monday am in New York.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 09:01 - ID#45173)
TYoung: What impact the euro in this currency shakeout?
The theory of efficient markets says it is having an impact now, but it is not my expertise to descern it. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 09:13 - ID#288369)
@ last night's bored meeting.............
Mighty glad I missed the stooopid gang bang. F*....who's last laughing? at whom? huh.

Off to the office to pump oil to give it away...laughing not...GO GOLDBUGS!!!!

Aragorn III
(Mon Jun 29 1998 09:16 - ID#212323)
Very strange...
One of the advertisements that just now came up on Yahoo! said,
"100% -200% returns on your money!"
It was for something called the SuperStockPick financial newsletter.

The weird part was their choice of graphics to enhance the appearance of an otherwise drab ad--they had an image of three stacked gold bars...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 09:17 - ID#335190)
GM strike weekend talks end without progress

The company has been forced to shut down 26 of its 29 assembly plants, which analysts say amounts to 93 percent of its car and truck output.

The company also said it will cut off health care benefits for the 9,200 strikers, and may do the same to the rest of those idled. GM said the benefits cut, which takes effect on July 1, is part of a crash effort by the automaker to conserve cash.

GM's decision to halt health care benefits for the strikers follows a move earlier this week to contest state unemployment benefits for both strikers and workers idled by parts shortages.

GM last year slashed benefits during a three-month strike at its Pontiac, Mich., pickup truck plant, but the walkout did not have widespread effects on other factories.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 09:19 - ID#254269)
Sixty Minutes Irony ; Did anyone else notice the irony in two of the stories
on 60 MInutes last night ? Lesley Stahl did a piece on how the Internet is totally unregulated and interviewed J. Orlin Grabbe as part of her
story. She was obviously pushing for some type of regulation. THEN, the next story by Steve Kroft was about how slow the government is in
de-classifying millions and millions of papers it has stored in warehouses all over Washington D.C. ? I thought it was incredibly ironic since these were "back to back " stories.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 09:20 - ID#317193)
My expertise is no doubt as lacking as yours. My guess is the Euro will cause gold to rise dramatically. If the Euro fails, the currency crisis is just that much worse. If the Euro is successful, the US$ is at great risk to be repatriated. backing for the Euro has not been set. What if Germany, France and Italy dictate very large gold reserves as I think they must for the Euro not to fail? We all are just guessing. However, I remain firm in my guess that the Euro will be backed heavily by gold...the reasons...politics and public perceptions in Europe.

We watch and wait. bbml


(Mon Jun 29 1998 09:22 - ID#45173)
Aragorn III: I noticed that too
Perhaps the gold bars symbolize wealth?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 09:26 - ID#254269)
Ripple Effects of GM Strike ;

(Mon Jun 29 1998 09:37 - ID#45173)
Confidence Weakens in Japan
(Mon Jun 29 1998 09:45 - ID#434108)
Avalon/60 Min.
Yes, I saw it too; kind-of ironic, and a little spookey/foreboding, as well. Whether or not 60 min., abc/cbs/nbc,, the gov't, the bureaucrats etc., want to regulate/control the internet....I can't say, or be the judge of that.

Certainly, there are enuf statists around Washington ( -& everywhere else ) , including the hordes of power-hungry power-brokers &
their minions...... hordes of paternalistic, patronizing,
condescending...... well - you get my drift....
The federal gov't's addiction to secrecy, is a direct &
compelling symptom of a national gov't that has lost control
of itself......and abandoned it's original, Constituional
The run-away "secrecy" mentality of the federal government
reflects, their paranoia, their fear, their arrogance.....
and their unbridled lust for control & power.
They have long since forgotten any founding father ideas
about being the servants of the people.
The unbridled cult of "secrecy" reveals their true colors --
masters of deceit.....and... --
deceivers who are determined to attempt to master the people,
the people that they were originally, constitutionally
created to serve........but never master.

I just hope it doesn't get so bad, that a second revolutionary war becomes necessary.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 09:55 - ID#254269)
60 Minutes; goldfevr. I think it indicates how "scared" (if that is right word) the
major networks are about the effect of Internet competition on their business. They have to be hurting with all of the other forms of news sources and communication out there today.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 09:57 - ID#401460)
Home Sales

New Home Sales + 0.3% a Record!


(Mon Jun 29 1998 10:04 - ID#35571)
deja vu?
The more things change, the more they stay the same:

(Mon Jun 29 1998 10:06 - ID#426220)

REF: "Avalon ( Sixty Minutes Irony ; Did anyone else notice the irony in two of the stories ) "

I totally agree with your comments. In fact I was infuriated by the CBS 60-MINUTES show. It was obviously a totally biased focus. It was in effect a propaganda ploy to deter FREE-SPEECH on the Internet. But the real purpose of CBS's Con-Job is to perpetuate the COMMUNICATION CARTEL now in control by CBS, NBC et al ( i.e. other media giants ) .

The COMMUNICATION CARTEL is a propaganda tool employed those who wish control the thinking of the masses. Therefore, they air a show like the one last night to DISCREDIT small and independent Internet news websites NOT under the direct control of the COMMUNICATION CARTEL. How do they do this??? Simple!! They select a character like J. Orlin Grabbe - who projects a very unsavory image of doubtful character for an "interview." Mr. Grabbe is un-shaven, sloppily dressed with very long unkempt hair. The goal of the interview was to create the perception that Grabbe represented - and was typical of - all small and independent Internet news website.

The so-called "interview" most probably was totally pre-scripted by the COMMUNICATION CARTEL with the goal to DISCREDIT and to project a distrustful image to the Internet. They obviously hope to subject the Internet to REGULATION by the powers to be.

Small independent Internet websites are challenging the COMMUNICATION CARTEL's heretofore absolute control of the media - and ultimately how and what the public thinks.

The whole "interview" by 60-Minutes was a blatant set-up job to further the COMMUNICATION CARTEL's control of how and what the public reads and hears.

In essence it was a very transparent Con-Job! IMHO.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 10:14 - ID#335190)
USofA & China @ Freedom & Democracy for citizen's and Worker's ( Have I missed something?
In every election in American history both parties have their clichs. The party that has the clichs that ring true wins.
Newt Gingrich, International Herald Tribune ( Paris, Aug. 1, 1988 ) .

The present age handed over the workers, each alone and defenseless, to the unbridled greed of competitors... so that a very few and exceedingly rich men have laid a yoke of almost slavery on the unnumbered masses of non-owning workers.
Pope Leo XIII

If a man tells you he loves America, yet hates labor, he is a liar!
Abraham Lincoln

These capitalists generally act harmoniously, and in concert, to fleece the people.
Abraham Lincoln, 1837

This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it.
Abraham Lincoln, 1861

The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities ... It is best to win without fighting.
Sun-tzu, The Art of War, Planning a Siege

Victorius warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
Sun-tzu, The Art of War, Strategic Assessments

Respectable means rich, and decent means poor. I should die if I heard my family called decent.
Thomas Love Peacock ( 1785-1866 ) , English author. Lady Clarinda, in Crotchet Castle, 1831

Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men, for the nastiest of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of us all.
Economist John Maynard Keynes

see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my
country....corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the
country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few
hands and the Republic is destroyed.
Abraham Lincoln

(Mon Jun 29 1998 10:17 - ID#147201)
Clinton in China
What do y'all think rubin's orders are this week??

(Mon Jun 29 1998 10:17 - ID#254269)
Great Minds Think Alike; vronsky, after I made my first post re 60 minutes story,
I was thinking about what I had just posted. ( yeah, I know, thinking can be dangerous ) . You expressed perfectly what I was trying to say. Yes, there is a COMMUNICATION CARTEL ( major networks, nespapers etc. ) and THEY are "losing the war " for the minds of the populations. ( Maybe they have already lost the war ) Remember the Tiannamen Square uprising in 1989, the students were able to keep in touch with each other by fax machines. How about all the "internet talk" right now about reforming IRS and replacing it with sales tax, etc. How about Ross Perot's popularity back in 1992 ? Yes sir, the "times, they are a changing ".

(Mon Jun 29 1998 10:20 - ID#254269)
vronsky; re Grabbe, you're right, the man should have had his hair cut and worn
a suit.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 10:22 - ID#401460)
The Internet, CIA, & NSA

On C-Span last week:

CIA & NSA both were being interviewed on Capital Hill. When have you ever seen both agencies in the light of day....and together?

The reason for their appearance was supposedly to warn us of security and the Yr 2K problem, however it became apparent as the questioning and discussion continued, that they were trying to scare the public; that your daughter may be cheated out of her lunch money and that they should have control of encryption.

They created, control, and OWN the internet but they are loosing control of the content. They can not listen in as before.

Big Brother is at work!


(Mon Jun 29 1998 10:23 - ID#147201)
Vronsky re 60 min
You got that right. They are getting scared. Watched Clinton reports from China and news comments too. Heraldo was as bad as Quin. They are showing their colors

(Mon Jun 29 1998 10:25 - ID#402148)
RUBIN will...
spook the USD longs today or tomorrow to screw them out of part or all of their huge quarterly bonus for being right in short Yen.


(Mon Jun 29 1998 10:38 - ID#373284)
chas, Namaste' busy day for me, full schedule...however...seeing a friend today
and taking your materials...same fella who is going to make the necklace...windy on the Island that is Long...lovely...yes...

I'm in a good mood...actually a great mood...much gold will be given to children today...and a very special child shall own a brilliant Morgan Silver Dollar in HONOR of ARAGORNIII...


(Mon Jun 29 1998 10:39 - ID#289357)

They have lost control .....BUT, just in case you may ever need encryption, you may want to download one of the free versions of PGP ( pretty good privacy ) from this site before they try to block it.

Got Gold?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 10:57 - ID#333127)
I'm impressed with action in SWC, just thought I'd let you All know it has been a steady performer lately

(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:09 - ID#147201)
Go get them T1

(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:21 - ID#45173)
Mainstream press versus Internet
The mainstream press is a machine designed to deliver information to a mass audience -- nothing more, nothing less. If as an organization -- government, industry, etc. -- you are effective at using this machine to communicate a message that you want this mass audience to believe, then your messages will be believed and competing messages disbelieved. The basic methodology is to craft your message so that it is plausible, repeatable and memorable, then get a press industry leaders to report your message without changing it too much, and get other credible sources to report the messages as frequently as possible. Credibility is directly correlated with repetition and source. Generally, the more money you have the more people you can hire to execute a PR strategy the better your message will sink into the minds of the audience. But sometimes a small number of highly competent individuals can have a significant impact on public opinion through the mass media, although money is always required to sustain the mission. Thus is a truth created.

Three other important principles. One, first-to-market is everything. Creating an opinion is far easier than changing one. If the audience already has an idea about something, getting them to change their idea about it is very difficult. Two, if the PR mission is an effort to direct opinion away from the reality of the communicator's circumstances, in time reality can overwhelm even the best PR effort. Three, the mainstream press is highly conservative. It almost never pays to report information that contradicts the information other news organizations are reporting.

The mass media industry is not worried about the Internet as a competing source of information for their mass audience. There are many sites on the Net that report news, but without a brand name the information they offer is not credible to a mass audience. Think of the major news organizations as speaking through a bullhorn and independent news organizations as speaking through a kazoo. However, each major news organization is afraid that competing news organizations will use the Internet more effectively as a medium for content distribution.


(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:26 - ID#335190)
Serbs begin new offensive outside Pristina

Police backed by armored personnel carriers sealed off the guerrilla-held town of Belacevac, 10 kilometres west of the Kosovo provincial capital Pristina and appeared to be preparing to recapture a coal mine in the town.

The Belacevac open-pit mine is strategically important because it supplies coal to the nearby Obilic power plant, which in turn provides electricity for most of the province.

More than 300 people, mostly ethnic Albanians, have died in Kosovo since Serb security forces launched an offensive Feb. 28 to try to extinguish growing resistance.

The West's main hope among Kosovo's 1.6 million ethnic Albanians lies with Ibrahim Rugova, an advocate of non-violence who has abandoned hope for a satisfactory form of autonomy within Yugoslavia and begun pressing for independence.

"The European Union remains firmly opposed to independence," the statement added.

Victorius warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
Sun-tzu, The Art of War, Strategic Assessments

(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:28 - ID#36156)
YAwnnnn... Too boring here today ... think I'll go out and buy
a few Eagles ... see 'yall later.

HenryD ( Got Gold? )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:30 - ID#373284)
EJ, Namaste' Hmmmmmmm...great line...Reserva Gulp to Ya.......chas, a note
"Think of the major news organizations as speaking through a bullhorn and independent news organizations as speaking through a kazoo."

Gotta run...I will get em'...........Namaste'

(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:34 - ID#26467)
FWIW Friday got stopped out at 18 9/16 .Look to
reshort 18 3/4 with a 19 1/16 stop.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:34 - ID#26467)
FWIW Friday got stopped out at 18 9/16 .Look to
reshort 18 3/4 with a 19 1/16 stop.

Cage Rattler
(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:34 - ID#33184)
20% reserve target for ECB requested
MONDAY, 1.30PM: FINANCE Minister Trevor Manuel on the weekend urged his French counterpart to encourage the newly-formed European Central Bank to retain 20% of its reserves in gold.
Business Day reports that Manuel met Minister Dominique Strauss-Kahn on the last day of French President Jacques Chirac's three-day visit to South Africa.
Responding to Manuel's request, Strauss-Kahn said the French central bank does not plan to reduce its gold holdings as a percentage of total reserves. He did not, however, say what this percentage is.
Fears as to the declining use of gold to back up foreign-exchange reserves were raised earlier in the year when notoriously anti-gold Wim Duisenberg was appointed European Central Bank president. Duisenberg announced that the bank's six governors agreed that only 10% to 15% of its reserves will be held in gold. Manuel's call echoes one made by Deputy President Thabo Mbeki earlier in the year, when he urged central banks to reconsider plans to reduce their gold reserves.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:34 - ID#289357)
EJ @ information to a mass audience - some of these quotes apply

(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:37 - ID#335190)
Chinese dissident arrested after trying to register democratic party

BEIJING ( AP ) -- Chinese police detained a democracy activist today who was trying to set up an opposition political party -- the latest dissident rounded up during President Bill Clinton's visit to China.

However, Clinton has refused appeals by Chinese democracy and human rights campaigners to meet with a dissident.

In the latest such appeal, 125 Chinese dissidents called on Clinton to meet former Communist Party leader Zhao Ziyang, who was ousted by party elders for resisting the 1989 military crackdown.

Zhao has lived under house arrest since being purged nine years ago and remains a potent symbol of a more tolerant era in Chinese politics. Last week, he reportedly sent party leaders a letter urging a reassessment of the protests.

In an open letter released today, the 125 dissidents said Zhao would have pushed democratic reforms together with economic ones and in the process corruption and unemployment would have been less severe.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:47 - ID#335190)
Canadians spending at home, Asian tourism plunges

OTTAWA ( CP ) -- The Asian financial crisis contributed to a 30-per-cent drop in tourists from the Asia-Pacific region in the first quarter of this year, Statistics Canada reported Monday.

Trips to the United States, by contrast, fell 14 per cent to 9.8 million.
Canadian trips south of the border have been in decline for seven consecutive quarters dating back to the third quarter of 1996. U.S. visitors to Canada, meanwhile, having been enjoying the favorable currency exchange in growing numbers for the past 18 months.

Americans made 5.6 million same-day trips to Canada in the first quarter of 1998 and 1.8 million overnight visits. Those numbers are up seven per cent and 5.7 per cent respectively over the same period last year.

Interesting Times
(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:47 - ID#423355)
EJ: Mainstream press v. Net
*The mainstream press is a machine designed to deliver information to a *mass audience -- nothing more, nothing less. If as an organization -- *government, industry, etc. -- you are effective at using this machine to *communicate a message that you want this mass audience to believe, *then your messages will be believed and competing messages *disbelieved.

The above would be true if the mainstream press had no strong opinions about what information should be promoted or suppressed. This is not even remotely the case, and disinformation is the order of the day.

*Three other important principles. One, first-to-market is everything.
I thought you said being persuasive and accurate was what counted...

*Two, if the PR mission is an effort to direct *opinion away from the reality *of the communicator's circumstances, in time reality can overwhelm *even the best PR effort.

True, but this is never guaranteed. It requires an alternate channel through which the truth can be communicated.

*Three, the mainstream press is highly conservative. It almost never pays *to report information that contradicts the information other news *organizations are reporting.

"Controlled" would more accurate than "conservative", in this context.
A good example is Chris Ruddy's series of reports on the USAF pathologists ( 4 in all ) who observed the very round hole in Ron Brown's head. Virtually nobody would touch it.

*The mass media industry is not worried about the Internet as a *competing source of information for their mass audience...

Worried? How about terrified, frenzied and hysterical. Go read the transcript of Matt Drudge's conversation with the Press Club if you think I'm overstating. The Net is rapidly obsoleting the mainstream media; most particularly the lockstep propaganda that is the network news... The folks who run these industries aren't deep thinkers, but they can read ratings sheets...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:47 - ID#373284)
ARAGORNIII, Namaste' Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...YOUR package
will arrive tomorrow...I most HUMBLY apologize for the delay...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:54 - ID#335190)
FOCUS-Rockwell to cut 3,800 jobs in restructuring

LOS ANGELES ( Reuters ) - Rockwell International Corp. will cut 3,800 jobs and spin off its semiconductor unit in a sweeping restructuring to boost lagging profits, the company said Monday.

After the announcements, PaineWebber Group Inc. said it raised its investment rating on Rockwell.

Interesting Times
(Mon Jun 29 1998 11:55 - ID#423355)
mainsteam / Net addendum
Uh, that is, no one in the mainstream media would touch the Ron Brown reports. Not the hole.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:07 - ID#242325)
Gold stock volume very light today. Does not bode well for the immediate future.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:09 - ID#227168)
Finding the muddy dirt pile and the worms that crawl there .
Yes It does seem FEARFUL has reached the highest intellectual level possible, beyond the comprehension of most Kitco followers but the mental upward spiral can be charted as a triple top. Good luck on your 5 waves down Away to be truly Canadian

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:11 - ID#286230)
TSE Bulls Still Running

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:20 - ID#187109)
*morning call*

go plat ( ? ) ....when........ ( ugh ) it gearing up? or will the wheels fall smack off.........hum dee dum....let's have some fun.

away.....from F*


got sugar? ohmy?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:21 - ID#57232)
US Markets rally continues
All: As Oldman predicted some days ago, the US markets are rallying. My guess is the positive PR coming from China is part of this. Who knows what we have promised to get reassurances that the Chinese Yuan will not be devalued? And just how long will this last before the Chinese are forced to devalue anyway?

What really worries me is the steady climb of the US dollar, presumably mostly due to the fall of the Japanese Yen, althought it has risen relative to other currencies as well. This is not good for any currencies still pegged to the dollar.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:27 - ID#254269)
Dow up 94 to 9038 a few minutes
ago. BBL.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:29 - ID#288369)
@ Did anyone watch the astrology show last night.......
on the Discovery channel, I think, great stuff!!! Was Sheller on the show? I missed the first part.

Got a prospectus this a.m. from JP Morgan on their commodity funds...very interesting. Kinda' like it....but need to study more, though.

Even more interesting, was a discussion of the LBMA in one of the sections. This is news to be......the LBMA is controlled by the Bank of England and ruled by their "Code of Conduct". It went on to discuss the BOE's ACTIVE participation in the gold market. I thought the BOE was disinterested in gold? huh. oh, stoooopid me.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:31 - ID#347235)
You are getting crabby again, you should take a LLLLOOOONNNGGGEEERRRR vacation and give us a break!!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:32 - ID#410198)
My shrink sent this to me,with a note that said,YOU REALLY ARE NOT NUTS

Aragorn III
(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:37 - ID#212323)
tolerant one, your generosity and humility is without equal...
One needs never appologize when acting upon PURE KINDNESS.

When the hand lowers to raise a man from quicksand, the voice need not beg forgiveness for failure to first remove one's hat as a show of respect because time was of the essence, or to apologize for an uncertain grip.

Your act is such that I see the world through altered eyes; that goodness within men forms firm connections across time and space, while the evils one may witness are but passing wisps and distractions.

got inspiration!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:38 - ID#36156)
Retired Soldier - RE: F*
Agree. And when he comes back, I hope he leaves his teeth hehind ... there're enough sharks in these waters already.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:39 - ID#431263)
while creating a bubble market for the DOW and top-tier Nasdaq hi-techs!
THIS WILL NOT STAND! Every day the DOW goes higher, the bubble gets bigger and the looming disaster gets larger! We are witnesses to the greatest market deception in human history ( with the possible exception of the Nikkei ) ! Every money manager knows this is an unsustainable bubble, yet everyone thinks that he will be smart enough to get his ass ( ets ) out BEFORE the inevitable collapse! THIS is investing? GOTT IM HIMMEL, WHAT FOOLS! To paraphrase a well-known ditty, THE WHEELS OF GOLD GRIND SLOWLY, BUT THEY GRIND EXCEEDINGLY FINE!

Gold Dancer
(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:48 - ID#377196)
More on that potatoe thing
Just got off phone with my Morgan Stanley/Dean Witter broker of 25
years. This is what he tells me what he remembers happening: Lots of
shorts on Maine potatoes. Crop went bad so there were no maine potatoes
to deliver against the longs. So the exchange said you had to take
Idaho potatoes instead. They closed the market and settled the contracts.
The client who was long made a little money but not what he should have.
My broker said he has never seen this happen before. Potatoes should have been up several hundred %. Broker thinks the members were short and they protected them. He says this was not right and was shocked this happened.
When I pointed out the same situation could exist in gold he said there
is the gold out there and so does not expect this to happen. When I pointed out the fact that it's the "establishment insiders" who are
short and the goverment does not want the price of gold to go way up,
could they not close the markets under the excuse of an "disorderly
market". He went silent. Then said they can do anything they want to do
in order to save themselves. But he does not expect them to do that. I
am not so sure. The government wants to survive, the banks want to rule
the world, the people don't have any gold to speak of. So the people
won't complain about a few speculators when they are losing their jobs
etc. Don't get me wrong. I am bullish on gold and expect it to go up,
but not as far as it "should" so I am not going to overstay my welcome
with too much of my money in that sector. Right now I am heavy in PM's.
I don't want to throw a cold blanket on a party but I think I just might
be right about this and so thought I should at least mention the posibility. Don't expect this to happend till gold well over $450, once
over $500 all bets are off. Thanks. GD

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:50 - ID#347235)

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:50 - ID#35571)

Wednesday, October 23, 1929, Page 1, Col. 4


Vigorous Recovery Marks Most of Day and Many Issues Show Net Advances
Banking Support, Ease of Money and Mitchell's Optimistic Statement Help Rally

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:51 - ID#431263)
You really believe that Scheiss! GOTT IM HIMMEL!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:51 - ID#35571)


(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:52 - ID#347235)
Gollum,Hendy D.
Gollum, I have missed several days, how is your wife? Hope she is well


Gold Dancer
(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:52 - ID#377196)
still more on potatoes
Someone wanted to know when this happened. My broker remembers it to
be in the very early '80's. Hope this helps. GD

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:54 - ID#340302)
RETIRED DESERTER...nice to see you join in the gang bang...befitting for a wimp like you who professes to stand up for Jews but then runs and kisses the behind of JANES, a patently obvious Jew hater.

PUSSBOYS...contributing your usual three lines of ghettoese mumbo jumbo. Go crawl back under your rock, crackhead!

F*'s Report...

I don't care where gold's one big ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I like the strong action on the DOW & NASDAQ....makes America even STRONGER so all the rest of the countries of the world can rot and sink into the toilet they deserve.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:54 - ID#35571)

I believe that no one can know for sure from one day to the next what the next day will bring.

McArthur said, "I shall retrun".

So did Custer.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:54 - ID#335379)
60 Min.
Hello All:
Just had to add my 60 cents worth.
60 Minutes has never been about getting behind the issues to learn truth.
It is the most hypocritical news program on the air.
20/20 is basically the same.
On issues where I have had access to more information, I have found them not only to be false but running a very low class dog and pony show.
Some times it is the radicaly dressed and wierdo-looking that are actually right or believed. In the silicon Valley many smart individuals dress down.
I do hope that the internet educates John Q. But remember, John Q is less likely to own and use a computer outside of work. I am not certain but I think think the % of US housholds with cumputers is still less than 25%. And many have internet access for the games/hobbies.
Nicodemus, Knowing that the truth is suppressed, and looking hard to find it.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:55 - ID#267344)
EJ I have not received your message. It is
eagerly awaited as clone wishes to make good on his debt.
- c

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:58 - ID#377196)
Gold Moratorium

This morning the Canaccord Daily Letter contained this about gold. Has anyone else heard of this possibility?

Gold Update

A moratorium on gold sales by ECB-member national central banks could
be announced following their Tuesday, July 7 meeting. If a freeze is
announced, gold and gold shares could spike higher in the near-term.

On the agenda for the European Central Bank committee meeting on
Tuesday, July 7 is expected to be a discussion on whether to have a
moratorium on gold sales by the national central banks. Dealers we
talk with believe there is a distinct possibility that this could
happen, and if it does, the gold market could spike higher. We agree
that if a freeze is announced, a spike in gold and gold shares could
occur. As such, for those investors seeking a short term trading
opportunity, this could be it. For this purpose, we reiterate our BUY
rating on shares of the following companies: Barrick Gold ( ABX :
TSE ) , Placer Dome ( PDG : TSE ) , Euro-Nevada ( EN : TSE ) , and
Franco-Nevada ( FN : TSE ) ; Newmont Mining ( NEM : TSE ) is an ACCUMULATE.

Note, however, that the gold market has not been trading as if a
moratorium on sales was in the works. In addition, our previously
reported view that the gold market could be pressured this summer did
not include any significant central bank gold sales. Indeed, we
believe that if Germany, France, and Italy maintain their policy of
not selling gold, the only country in the ECB that would have
significant quantities to sell would be the Netherlands. As such, we
have not been concerned about further major ECB sales ( excluding a
change in policy from Germany, France, or Italy ) since Belgium swapped
299 tons in March.

Gold spike could present excellent trading, profit taking, and
producer hedging opportunities.

Nonetheless, if a freeze on gold sales is announced, gold would likely
rally sharply on sentiment and technical buying. However, the
previously reported view that gold could be pressured this summer
would likely remain intact ( see The Canaccord Gold Bullion Report
dated June 24, available early this week ) . The fundamentals backing
this view are prolonged uncertainty and potential further currency,
financial, and economic weakness in Japan, China, Russia, South Korea,
Southeast Asia, and India. In addition, the gold market is heading
into the weakest seasonal period of the year, which generally lasts
through August. Moreover, this seasonal weakness could be exacerbated
if the currencies are pressured further against the US dollar. As
such, if gold rallies sharply either heading into, or subsequent to
next week's ECB meeting, it could provide excellent trading, profit
taking, and producer hedging opportunities.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 12:58 - ID#251220)
Gold Bullion or Numismatic Coins?
I'm trying to figure out if there is a consensus here as to the makeup of ones gold portfolio. If things get really bad, is it best to own bullion or rare coins? Maybe a combination of both? I'm getting ready to make some purchases and need a little direction. I've talked to the people at Swiss America for numismatics. Any good or bad feedback on them?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:00 - ID#35571)
She has been home a week now, and gains strength day by day. Thank you for your concern.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:01 - ID#36156)
Hey, Farfel, who's PUSSBOYS?


(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:01 - ID#431366)
re National ID card - thanks for the info Sharefin
Time to crawl in a cave for a couple years.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:03 - ID#218386)
For All - please consider
Rules For Being Human

( From a column by Sir John Templeton )

You will receive a body. You may like it or hate it,
but it will be yours for as long as you live. How you
take care of it or fail to take care of it can make
an enormous difference in the quality of your life.

You will learn lessons. You are enrolled in a full-time
school called Life. Each day, you will be presented
with opportunities to learn what you need to know. The lessons presented are often completely different from those you think you need.

There are no mistakes - only lessons. Growth is a process of trial and error and experimentation. You can learn as much from failure as you can from success.

A lesson is repeated until it is learned. A lesson will be presented to you in various forms until you have learned it. When you have learned it ( as evidenced by a change in your attitude and behavior ) , then you can go on to the next lesson.

Learning lessons does not end. There is no stage of life that does not contain some lessons. As long as you live, there will be something more to learn.

"There" is no better than "here". When your "there" has become a "here" you will obtain another "there" that will again look better than your "here". Don't be fooled by believing that the unattainable is better than what you have.

Others are only mirrors of you. You cannot love or hate something about another person unless it reflects something you love or hate about yourself. When tempted to criticize others, ask yourself why you feel so strongly.

What you make of your life is up to you. You have all the tools and resources you need. Remember through desire, goal-setting and unflagging effort you can have anything you want. Persistence is the key to success.

The answers lie within you. The solutions to all of life's problems lie within your grasp. All you need to do is ask, look, listen and trust.

You will forget all this. Unless you consistently stay focused on the goals you have set for yourself, everything you've just read won't mean a thing.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:03 - ID#284255)
John Disney
Many thanks will look it up.

No offence was a silly PC April fools day.
That my kids thought was great.

And I doubt that there is much security at all.
Depends on the intelligence of the hacker.

There is a great deal of concern coming out at the moment.
Re security that can easily be breached.
Esp when the integrity is down due to Y2k and other date failures.
Systems can be crashed into so much easier.

Msft has twice crashed into my visa card.
I had it changed and they found it again.
I got my money back but only after some hassle.

Great article.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:09 - ID#288369)
Peace, brother. You have many fans here, some remain unspoken, don't let US down. Yes, I am a fan. studio. ( but last night sucked and so did your last post ) .

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:11 - ID#36156)
STUDIO.R (@F*..........)
I'm a fan too, Stu... or at least I used to be.

HenryD ( Go Gold! )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:17 - ID#284255)
Griz - this goes with that one and what else???
Email Chatter:
Since this may pertain to Y2K in a very specific way, I might as well
tell you about it.

The bank I work at ( I shall not mention the name due to
confidentiality issues; sorry - but I will say it is one of the
largest banks in the U.S. ) issued a short dispatch to it's employees
( specifically bank managers ) last week about preparedness and
preparation in case of an emergency.

The manager at my bank seemed perplexed by the communiqu.

It talked about preparedness in case of an emergency, and it gave an
example of a situation involving an earthquake. The tone of the memo
was, in a sense, un-alarmist and strangely mellow, in my opinion.

It then listed about 25 questions for bank managers to ask themselves.
The questions were run of the mill preparedness questions, though
taken at face value, were quite serious in nature; for instance, "Are
your employees trained to handle a large influx of customers during a
crisis?...Is your bank fortified with the proper ability to handle a
large-scale disaster?" Etc., etc. I do specifically remember that
there were a few questions about stockpiling food - I remember that
some of the questions struck me as being very odd.

I will keep an eye out for such memos in the future; for they may
intensify if my bank is taking the Y2K matter seriously. This does
give us an inside look at what banks may be feeling concerning Y2K. If
they do consider it a big problem, they darn well better be evaluating
their employees - as they have in this instance - if they plan to
survive Y2K.

Sedona, Az.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:21 - ID#410198)
JJ ...thanks for the question,bullion vs numismatics since Sept.97 numismatics low grade MS 60-63
increased 58% of melt,while bullion has gone from $330.00 to present,this is not hard to figure out unlike bullion this is a real market driven by supply and demand....numismatics are not affected by CB's, Fed/treasury action,forward sales etc....there are only two players investors and more collectors come aboard the less product for investors surprise surprise prices move higher in the hope that more product will come to market,the reality is as I've been saying here for a while product is becomming hard to get which means smart folks are for Swiss America good company they just charge a lot I sell MS 63 NGC Saints for $529.00 clean no spots that should give you something to go for crunch time no one knows that answer or what will happen...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:24 - ID#431263)
But another opportunity for smart money to distribute stock to fools!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:28 - ID#368244)
@ Studio R

Rangy is coming right on down to our buy zone. Are you ready?

Speaking of certain Kitco brothers, a mans true colors are best revealed

when he is under pressure.

Gold Dancer
(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:33 - ID#377196)
Before I forget I will tell you what else I found out this weekend. I
spent 2 hrs. with a very good friend who works for a major airline. She is in computors and was the person who almost singlehandedly brought to
managments attention the necessity of dealing with Y2K. It took 1 1/2
years to get them to listen and to be willing to spend the millions on
something that would not change anything but just let them stay in business! They have worked on the problem for the past 3 years and will
make it but she says the following: The deeper we got into it the more
difficult it became. The more complex systems were abandoned. All the
critical systems are going to be ok but we don't know about everyone
else. I know how long it takes. There is no silver bullet.It takes a
lot of effort. A lot of companies were waiting for a fast fix which is
not coming. Anyone who has not started she just laughs and if they
started a year ago they won't make it. It's just very difficult she
says. When I asked her what she really thought was going to happen she
said "I look for it to be 'death by a thousand paper cuts', it's going
to wear us down."
The biggest problem she agrees is in embedded systems. All bets are off
and that is the most likely to cause big problems. Her assesment: Not
good but not a complete disaster.
The stock market? She has lots of cash and will get more and some
gold but she prefers fully paid for rental properties because she understands that better. Stocks: "BE OUT".
My friend is one of the most intelligent and balanced persons I know. She
is not a paranoid like the rest of us and is a buy and hold person. But
not this time.
Thanks. GD

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:34 - ID#284255)
Japan, Germany behind on 'year 2000' bug - Gartner

NAB admits bug's complexity

Telco union bugged by Y2K chaos

Y2K big threat to small firms
The Australian Government predicts that 25-30 per cent of businesses will fail due to Y2K problems.

Not a good day of news.
When the biggest say 'no can do'
You gotta wonder???

.....Wonder when to buy some physical????

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:36 - ID#287186)
Sharefin - The future is coming faster than we feared
Those futuristic armageddon / apocolypse / collapse of civilization stories that many disparaged sci-fi authors wrote...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:36 - ID#210235)
@Renewal of Pressure on IMF to sell off gold

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:46 - ID#229277)
Gollum: Sheesh! Dog grrrrrrowled a few times and bolted right out of here!
All of a sudden, like he had something to go do someplace. And he looked really mad. My bet is is going to go chew a few points off, or more likely, a lot.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:46 - ID#284255)
When you read all the bits and pieces coming out.
And look at all the reports on the complexities involved re Y2k.

Along with all the little stories going round.
You get a sense that it's going to get a lot worse.

Could you imagine checking the chips in a 747.
You'd need a can opener.
And how many are there to do?

April will be a very telling month.
And there will be much between now and then.
The testing period is now warming up.
And many confessions will come to air.

Just secured my retreat in the back hills today.
And feel alot better for it.

PH in LA
(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:51 - ID#225408)
re: F*******
I have never been a fan! I never will be.

F* is not as before. He used to confuse propaganda with content.

Now he is losing even that. At this rate, his fate will be the same as Heavy Hitter's ( R.I.P. ) . I, for one, promise to continue paying no more attention whatsoever to him.

( But it was sure great watching him and LGB go at it. How the fur flew when the birds of a feather...Those were the days! )
(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:52 - ID#434108)
JJ & portfolios & "consensus"
Now really, JJ;
Do you really think you will ever find a "consensus"!
Seems to me "portfolio" is almost spellled with same letters as:
"very individual/personal/private matter"....

I think many people find the good old 'triangle' diagram,
to be a useful visual tool in organizing one's ideas, thoughts,
& goals ....when it comes to building one's portfolio.

Starting point is, of course: money to work with:
.... $100,000,000.00, or $100,000.00, or $100.00.....?!

Seems to me, from my early experience of meeting & studying with
( -& becoming one, myself ) goldbugs,
in the early 1970's, is a good idea....
to include, at the base/foundation of one's "portfolio-triangle" least some of the following:
bullion &/or "bullion coins", such as Canadian-Maple-leafs, U.S.-golden-eagles, ( & U.S.-Silver-Eagles ) , So.Af.-Krugerrands ( ? ) , etc.
cold cash of the current 'realm'
toilet paper & bottled water
a selected portfolio of mining shares, &/or funds, &/or ADR's,
etc.; preferably a balanced stock portfolio in which
50% of the shares are focussed in income producing,
dividend paying companies; while
the other 50% are concentrated in more speculative,
leveraged companies, whose stocks/share prices,
have a greater potential for capital-appreciation.

Numismatics, I'm sure, belong in the 'portfolio-picture',
depending on the individual.
But it is my understanding ( -& this is just my
2-cents' worth opinion ) ,
that numismatic coins do not belong at the base, or
foundation of the triangle in building an investment portfolio.

I vividly remember those "old-salty-dogs" - those "old-codgers"...those 'seasoned gold-bugs', that I found sitting
around the study tables at the SF Financial Branch of the
Public Library, in the early 1970's, advising me:

"Look Sonnny, when push comes to shove, and the s___t
hits the want bullion, or bullion coins."
( -These 'old-timers' predicted that bulliobn coins
would start being produced, * made available, in the U.S.
once gold ownership was made legal again, in the U.S.A.
[-which happpened in 1975.] )

They suggested that I focus my investment planning &
commmittments, on the systematic, periodic acquisition
of gold & silver bullion, & bullion coins, when/as available.
They seemed to agree that this was the "first prioity":
one ounce, & smaller..... gold & silver coins.

With them, at least, there seemed to be a "concensus", at least on this point.

In case I lost you in the above text, the point is:
numismatics/collectors coins
( -which have substantially higher premiums built into
their price, than bullion coins do ) ....
this fact of 'inflated price' - well beyond their
suggests that numismatic coins are not as important
as bullion coins, in the initial building of a portfolio.

Again, just one point of view, but, at least give
this opinion some thought/consideration:
"numismatic coins do not belong as part of the
foundation of a portfolio; they are not the first priority".

( actually, toilet paper is )

That said; once the 'foundation' is laid, the inclusion of
numismatics coins ( -as part of the upper levels of the 'triangle-portfolio' ) , can provide outstanding opportunities
for capital many cases exceeding the
potential for capital appreciation in leveraged mining stock
companies, etc.

hope this is helpful

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:56 - ID#335190)
Nike seeks dismissal of suit over Asian factories

"The request by the plaintiff is to produce at the minimum about 46 million documents, which we find somewhat onerous," Manager said.

Among the documents requested are pay stubs for about 500,000 workers dating back more than seven years, he said.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 13:58 - ID#431263)

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:02 - ID#248170)
My sincere apologies for the inaccuratre Shakespeare diamond call.
(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:06 - ID#434108)
kitkat's 6/29 post @ 13:03; & John Templeton
Let's 'hear-it'...
for kitkat
John Templeton... ( : ditto, ditto, ditto )
" come he gets a "Sir" in front of his name?"

Seems a good paraphrase of spiritual texts: Koran, Bible,
ACIM, Lao-Tsu, etc.

to the 'life-boats' -- every one....

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:09 - ID#210235)
@A very interesting couple of viewpoints on just what the IMF is doing
The IMF is actively changing the shape of the economic world. What the heck are they up to? The first link takes you to contents - click on June 15th, After Suharto, What? From the man on the scene:

Robby Rubin defends the IMF

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:17 - ID#340302)
You were never a fan of FARFEL? Who cares? Who really cares what drivel you post on this forum? Who cares who you like?

Go back and worship your David Carradine impressionist, ANOTHER. That's more your speed.

You can find him on USAGOLD raking in the bucks courtesy of ass-for-brains sheep like yourself.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:18 - ID#269409)
@ PH in LA
"Birds of a feather" with Fartful? Puuleaaase....Just shows how closely you pay attention. Ain't it amazin that a guy who's contributed NAUGHT to this forum re Gold, investments, economic analysis, or anything else topic related, is such an avid "LGB" critic. And now to confuse the analytical opinion, with the advocacy opinion. You're a bad joke PH.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:20 - ID#269409)
@ Farfel....UhOhhh
Didn't know you were so close by...listen, I can see yer in a bad mood and all, and I think everyone deserves a melt down now and then, ( and I have a LOT of rocket science to do today ) so let's remain truce like and dump on that know nothing, contributing nothing, critic, PH together yes?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:21 - ID#269409)
Doom & Gloom...we're overdue
Neutron star could kill us all, but perhaps not

Copyright  1998
Copyright  1998 Scripps Howard

( June 26, 1998 2:09 p.m. EDT ) - As if you didn't have
enough to worry about already, it turns out that we're 100 million years
overdue for mass extinction.

Keep watching the skies if you want some warning. When you see an eerie
blue glow, slightly bigger than a full moon, it means that you've got just a
few days before the apocalypse.

The glow is caused by a burst of gamma rays hitting the upper atmosphere.
Following close behind is a high-energy jet of deadly cosmic rays. Once
they hit the atmosphere, your chances of survival are not good:
researchers believe that the last few times cosmic ray jets hit the Earth,
they wiped out up to 95 percent of animal life on the planet.

To get more than a few days warning, you'd have to monitor the orbits of all
the nearby neutron star pairs. The collapse and merger of these
super-dense balls of matter is the source of the lethal cosmic rays. As the
pairs of neutron stars circle around each other, their gravitational pull
moves them closer together and spins them faster and faster.

Eventually they collapse into each other and form a black hole, releasing
energy as a tightly focused beam of cosmic rays. The beam can travel for
up to a million light years before losing its power, so any planet in the line
of fire had better watch out.

Any starlight that gets in the way of the cosmic ray jet is kicked out in front
of it like a ball; this acceleration pumps the photons up to gamma ray
energies and makes them travel faster than the cosmic rays -- hence their
early arrival at the Earth. Low-intensity gamma ray bursts, thought to be
from neutron star mergers in distant galaxies, are detected by astronomers
about once a day.

This whole scenario may sound like science fiction, but it's getting the
attention of serious researchers. Calculations of the timings of nearby
neutron star collapses show that, just like mass extinctions on Earth, they
seem to occur about once every 100 million years. Disturbingly, for the
inhabitants of Earth, the evidence suggests the last one probably
happened 200 million years ago.

Geological records show there have been five major mass extinctions in the
past 500 million years.

Scientists believe the most recent one, which wiped out the dinosaurs 64
million years ago, was caused by the impact of a meteorite. Some 300,000
tons of the element iridium was laid down in the Earth's crust at this time,
and high levels of iridium have also been found in asteroids.

"What caused all the other extinctions is still an open question," says Arnon
Dar, a space physicist at the Israel Institute of Technology. Suggested
explanations have included high volcanic activity blocking sunlight and
poisoning the atmosphere, and supernova explosions. But there's no
geological evidence for coincident volcanic activity, and supernova
explosions don't occur close enough at a sufficiently high rate.

Dar was the first to suggest that collapsing neutron stars might be to blame

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:22 - ID#229277)
Interesting Times
"The above would be true if the mainstream press had no strong opinions about what information should be promoted or suppressed. This is not even remotely the case, and disinformation is the order of the day."

The mainstream press does not have opinions or information that it seeks to promote or supress in the same way that a dictator does, but the professional community of members that comprise the industry have shared interests. For example, if you are a financial reporter for the New York Times, it does not benefit you as a reporter to hand in a story to your editor that says that everyone in the stock market is full of suckers who are going to lose their shirts. The editor would only support it if it looked like it might improve the credibility of the paper as a news organization. As a member of the community of press, analysts, and finincial services companies, it makes more sense to report information that is consistent with the interests of the group. You are free to report whatever you want, but if it is not in the interests of this professional community than you make yourself an outsider by reporting the information through alternative press outlets which, of course, have a much smaller audience.

"One, first-to-market is everything.
I thought you said being persuasive and accurate was what counted..."

I actually did not mention accuracy as primarily important. Through repetition, innacurate information can become perceived as true. The message itself is one element of success, but how it is distributed is more important, so that the right people repeat it often enough. First-to-market means creating a belief. When you set out to create a belief, the first thing you need to understand is whether you are creating a belief or changing one. This will form the basis of your strategy.

"in time reality can overwhelm even the best PR effort."
"True, but this is never guaranteed. It requires an alternate channel through which the truth can be communicated."

Sometimes the evidence is too overwhelmingly against the message. For example, as corporations issue lowered EPS estimates, it becomes less and less tenable for financial news organizations to report that all is well. They must begin to report that caution is needed. Long before this evidence appeared, it was clear that caution was called for. The evidence gives the financial news orgs permission to begin to report what they already know without apearing to be working against the interests of the professional community.

"Controlled" would more accurate than "conservative", in this context.
A good example is Chris Ruddy's series of reports on the USAF pathologists ( 4 in all ) who observed the very round hole in Ron Brown's head. Virtually nobody would touch it."

The mechanism I describe here is actually much more insidious than a conspiracy to supress information. If there were a conspiracy, that would make a juicy story for someone to cover. But instead what you have is a professional community wherein everyone wants to maintain their status and membership, so behaving within norms is required. There is an excellent book written by Noam Chomsky called "The Washington Connection" back in the 1980s that covered how this mechanism worked to feed bogus information to the American people during the Vietnam war. I had the privilege to interview Dr. Chomsky on the book at the time and wrote an article for the alternative newspaper that I edited at the time.

*The mass media industry is not worried about the Internet as a *competing source of information for their mass audience...
Worried? How about terrified, frenzied and hysterical. Go read the transcript of Matt Drudge's conversation with the Press Club if you think I'm overstating. The Net is rapidly obsoleting the mainstream media; most particularly the lockstep propaganda that is the network news... The folks who run these industries aren't deep thinkers, but they can read ratings sheets..."

The major news organizations have this enormous advantage in mass audience, and their audience on the Web is growing. They have the reporters, the stringers, the industry contacts, etc. On the Web, the same news, different medium. Where do you go for stock quotes if you're going to make a trade,, Fidelity, Yahoo!, or Bob's Online Quotes? You go for the brand name. It's safe.


(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:23 - ID#340302)
@LGiBBerish...who's contributed nothing to this forum???
Take a look in the mirror, coin dealer man! Pushing your worthless little silver coins while kissing ass at Loral?? How well do you sharpen pencils for Mr. Schwartz? I hear you run and fetch a mean glass of water, LGiBBerish.

Give me a break!

I imagine you must be at least 400 pounds of hot, foul wind.

When are they going to toss you out on your big, fat ass?



(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:23 - ID#210235)
Looks like you've found another voice.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:24 - ID#57232)
Looks like you are in a lousy mood!
Farfel: RE: Insults.

Have you left anyone out? If you are invested 100% in gold or gold stocks, based on your own advice, I would suggest backing off a bit. That should do wonders for your mood. I have some of my money in equities.

Oldman was right, the US market bull is still with us. One thing about predicting a market demise is that one can describe the fundamental weaknesses of a market, but one can never predict the exact time for a fall.

Just like the nonexistent gold bull -- the fundamental forces are gathering, but the time for a solid rally has not yet come. The CRY0 should declare itself soon -- probably when there is an ElNino/LaNina related crop failure. Then gold may rally.

Given the strength of the US dollar, it is amazing that gold is doing as well as it is.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:28 - ID#426220)
Oil Economics Weekly -- $18 Oil In the Cards?

Everyone knows that in the long-run Crude Oil prices influence the price of GOLD. This past week we have seen a substantial oil price hike in the Futures market. Internationally-acclaimed oil expert James Williams shares his insights with us.

If the May 30 cuts are added to those of this week this brings total cuts to 2.6 million barrels per day. As a consequence some analysts are predicting prices of $18 per barrel in the fourth quarter.

Although petroleum expert Williams believes $!8 will be seen, he claims there are several reasons why the price increase may take some months to be realized.

"Once again we are left on the sideline trying to figure out how much cheating will there be by OPEC members and what will happen to the Asian economies."

Full report at following URL - it will be necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before pasting the URL to your Internet locator:

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:29 - ID#340302)
@JerkTurkeyF**head.... I AM OUT OF GOLD COMPLETELY!! YES!!!!
Why would I own that miserable worthless crap anymore?

And have to continue posting on this forum...and listening to pedantic nihilists and preachifying bores?

Enough already.

The DOW & the NASDAQ...that's where the party is. The higher they go, the better off America...and the rest of the world can take a dump in a pig slop.

Screw gold.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:29 - ID#36156)
RE: F*
Methinks we're being had...

Henry ( Go Gold! )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:30 - ID#210235)
@Russian interest rate rise to 80% seems to have helped today.
Finance minister warns of devaluation threat

Yeltsin in a speech today insisted that there is no crisis. Yeah.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:31 - ID#227168)
The smell of dead pig brains
Fartball Dont have the time right now to converse with your dead brain cells but I will recommend you take some sort of dietetic to release the congested membranes of pure adulterated s*hit Away to spray the smell.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:34 - ID#269409)
@ PH in LA....Re Farfel
Farfel and I have had our spats, as have RJ & Farfel, many others & Farfel. Fundamentally, I disagree vehemently with an approach to Gold analysis ( or ANY topic requiring analysis ) where advocacy and bias becomes a higher priority than objective review of the data.

However, in Farfel's defense, he has been a consistent contributor to this forum, of posts which artiuclately describe his opinion relative to Gold, economics, etc. And he does have an education related to these topics.

When a blithering idiot like YOU, PH, you who have never contributed an intelligent thought re Gold, Numismatics, Silver, Platinum, tech. analysis, or any other topic central to this forum...when YOU come along and set yourself up as critic of those who actually DO discuss these topics, you expose only your own ignorance.

I agree with Farfel, anyone who's sole contribution is to plug ANOTHER, and espouse socialist politics, has no right to attack the actual contributors to this place. But considering your awe of ANOTHER, it's no wonder you have so often espoused the socialist viewpoint here. After all, the socialist minded among us, generally desperately crave the "great leader" who can tell them what to do.

Now, we're still waiting to hear your vast storehouse of knowledge and wisdom re Gold, Silver, Platinum, mining, world economics, investment strategy's, technical analysis, or ANYthing of value...... course we've BEEN wiating a long time for that from you now, havn't we?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:34 - ID#335190)
USofA Commonwealth Citizen's @ Were The Rubber Hits The Road. Property Right's & Common Law?
Unions aim to cripple Puerto Rico with strike

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico ( Reuters ) - Puerto Rico braced Monday for a general strike aimed at crippling the U.S. commonwealth to protest the pending sale of the state-owned Puerto Rico Telephone Company.

The Umbrella Committee of Labor, Civic, Religious and Cultural Organizations, a group of 53 labor unions, voted Sunday to hold an island-wide work stoppage of public-sector workers during the next few days. Unionists fear the sale will imperil jobs.

Puerto Rico, a commonwealth of the United States, is bound by U.S. telecommunications laws. Telephone market penetration is about 74 percent, compared to about 90 percent in the rest of the United States.

Police said Sunday that more than a dozen bomb threats had been made since the strike began.

Union leaders said their work stoppage would be designed to cripple the island. Thousands of public-sector workers were expected to join, but unionized employees in the private sector were still evaluating the plan to see if they can legally take part.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:35 - ID#288186)

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:36 - ID#252150)
Farfetched@With every post you diminish yourself....Get help now!
Before it's to late & you choke on the invective you keep spewing forth.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:37 - ID#340302)
@PUSSBOYS...back already? You want more?
What happened? Did you run out of food stamps down at the local liquor store?

Hey, you're getting almost wrote MORE than three lines of your ghetto prose this time.

When you make it up to FOUR lines, then I'll submit your name for a Nobel in literature.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:38 - ID#340302)
@LGIiBBerish...give me a break!
I don't agree with a single word you've posted.

Go back to your fat farm!



(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:39 - ID#269409)
@ FArtful...your 14:23
And here i was trying to come to your defense! You really are in a meltdown dude...take that combo Prozac, lithium, Thorazine and call us in the morning will ya?

( PS, My Gold St. Gaudens are WAY to the plus during the time Gold has fallen...same with Silver Morgans, and PLatinum Proof Eagles.....better do you're homework a little before attacking Numismatic considerations in this market )

( PSS, is it the "always wrong" thing that finally drove you over the edge? )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:39 - ID#210235)
@Nightmare scenario unfolds, no one is stopping it.
Jack Kemp warns that IMF austerity program will crush the Russian economy and force devaluation. The risks are enormous.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:40 - ID#340302)
@JANES...sobered up? Wife left you yet?
One more time ( I need the laugh ) ...tell me your definition of stagflation.




(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:41 - ID#210235)
@Hey guys! The weekend's over.
Please take your invective to another site. Try ICQ or EMail.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:42 - ID#288186)
Aug Comex Gold closed @294.90 July Silver closed @ 5.305....

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:43 - ID#354133)
Re: 60 Minutes & Mr. Grabbe's
Avalon, Vronsky: Did an uncontrolled ( unscientific ) experiment when I got out of the military. Worked a civilian job for several months - built a good working relationship with Govt & civilian co-workers. Then started growing my hair out a little to shed that GI ( BCG ) look. You wouldn't believe the difference in treatment I received. Seems it's OK for musician stars ( rock, redneck, etc. ) , "professional" athletes, actors, and the like to have long hair or a "unique" look... but not someone they have to deal with personally, on a day-to-day basis. Noticed it not just on the job, either - church, stores, etc. Good ole U.S. North American discrimination, bias, etc. The only good treatment I got with the long hair was when I went to a restaurant and the manager mistook me for Steven Segall.

Another true story: A client of mine was a collector of "evil" guns, un-PC "how-to build explosives" books and miscellanous free thinking, reform-the-government literature ( all legally obtained - bought, downloaded off the net, or received thru the mail ) , etc. He was a lot more way-out looking than I ever would consider, but was a nice guy, veteran of the Desert Bullsh!t War, and productive member of the local economy ( mechanic & race car driver ) . Unfortunately, he allowed one of his "friends" to borrow his personal vehicle. That person left a small amount of weed in the car's ashtray. After he got the car back from his friend, the Cops pulled the owner over, searched the car, found "the stuff", and nailed him on the spot for possession. Later, the local cops got a warrant to search his house for more contraband. No dope found but, all of a sudden, he became the local "Unabomber" copy cat to the local press - photo spread showing a "cache of firearms, ammunition, anti-bgovernment books, literature", etc. ( all legal ) . Descriptions in the paper included "potential terrorist foiled" to "fanatic in our midst". They claimed that common household & shop chemicals ( ammonia, various acids used for cleaning, etc. ) were going to be used for bombmaking! Eventually, all charges were dropped, but the poor fellow lost his job, had to sell his house and move out of town. Couldn't find a lawyer to represent him - not even the retired Air Force Colonel who is suing the Fed Govt. Cops had "probable cause" and within their power to do what they did. It could happen to any of the good ole U.S. of A.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:43 - ID#269409)
@ Fartful...your RJ impression
I realize you're trying desepratley to pull off an "RJ" here, but I must tell you, you're not even in his league, not even close, give it up and go keep that psychotherapist appointment dude!

Apologies to all for engaging "Fartful" in this foodfight. I've been gone awhile and didn't realize he was in the throes of a full blown breakdown. No "Foodfight" is appropriate in this instance, in fact it's kind of a pathetic sight......get help desperately need it!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:46 - ID#340302) RJ impression?
I don't know what you're talking about?

RJ's OK by me.

Are you casting aspersions against your hero and Lord, RJ? God knows, you licked his butt often enough.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:48 - ID#335190)
Why can't Japan help the rest of Asia? Look at its banks

TOKYO ( AP ) -- Ever since the Asian crisis began, Japan has been criticized. Westerners say it has failed to stimulate its economy, let its currency skid and tried to export its way to recovery on the backs of giants such as Toyota and Sony.

But Japan's struggling neighbors complain about its banks, which, under the weight of bad loans, can no longer play their key role in Asia: rich uncle

It has been eight years since Japan's fast-growth economy ground to a halt, leaving the country's banks with a heavy burden of worthless loans.

But the banks have made surprisingly little progress. Estimates of their bad loans have ballooned from $26 billion US in 1992 to $550 billion US this year -- a sum nearly the size of Canada's entire economy.

Japanese banks have by far been the biggest foreign lenders in Asia, accounting for 30 per cent of international loans and helping fuel the region's phenomenal growth in the 1990s.

"Japanese banks have become very weak, and they don't have the capacity to take additional risk."

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:50 - ID#266105)

HenryD ( RE: F* ) ID#36156:
Methinks we're being had..

( snort! )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:51 - ID#252127)
This to get your minds of each other's failings

At $0.50 Canadian, Tiomin TIO in toronto deserves attention from both gold bugs and non-gold bugs alike. Not yet a producer, it's Cerro Colorado property is considered to be the 12 biggest undeveloped copper source in the world that is reputed to have PM values contained in the copper.

Their name actually conforms to their main thrust which is in Titanium sands, with a well advanced project in Quebec. Titanium sands are what they have quite a bit of from Canada to Africa.

This is an industrial product, if you brush your teeth, paint your house, use plastics or look through your windows, it touches you.

Also of interest is that names like Pierre Lassonde, Peter Steen, Ian Telfer are on their board of directors.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:52 - ID#36156)
LOL! : )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:55 - ID#288369)
Thanks for the Templeton "philosophy". Printed two for my daughters. Muchas garcias.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:57 - ID#340344)
I hereby apologize to all people in all countries of the world. Please
understand that at the present time on this otherwise wonderful forum,
there appears to be no limits to insulting behavior. I believe that
no one is his right mind would write the comments that Farfel has been
writing. I don't personally know *anyone* who takes pleasure in seeing
economies and currencies collapsing. Rational people do not take pleasure
in the sufferings of others. I do not think that *any* country is
benefitting by the anguish and suffering which is happening in the
world-wide financial markets. No one is happy. No one is smiling about
it. I believe that Farfel is feeling ego-bruised, and angry. He speaks
*only* for himself. I feel embarrassed by his postings.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:57 - ID#269409)
Bull Market....semi PM related
Shocking though it may be, there IS a Bull MArket taking place in ONE segment of the precious metals related investment world. And here's the latest online article from the CDN ( Coin dealer Newsletter ) which verifies that bull. This is just one of dozens of such articles for those of us that get these type publications and follow the price movements of this market. It is VERY strong....

CDN / June

The Market in Depth


There was much optimism in the air during the Long Beach Expo. Dealers reported numerous transactions taking place on the
bourse. However, there was an urgency to their needs and actions. The first day of the show was crucial as dealers did their best to
peruse each other's inventory. It is a time for dealers to look for coins listed on their customer want lists. However, it is also a
time to buy coins that meet the qualifications that today's market is demanding. Dealers definitely acknowledge the bull market
that we are all enjoying in 1998. Some of these dealers have even compared this bull market to the previous bull market that
peaked in 1989-90. Several astute dealers believe that the major difference between the two bull markets is the replacement
factor. In 1989-90, dealers were selling coins with the confidence that they could buy back these coins within a reasonable amount
of time. They knew that they could buy similar quality and rare coins within a short time. Today, dealers are concerned that if
they do sell a quality rare coin, they may not be able to replace the coin in their inventory. They believe it would take quite a
while, maybe more than a year to replace a quality coin. Dealers suggest that another factor to consider is cost. Dealers say that
when another coin does finally surface, it often cost them more to buy than it does today.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 14:58 - ID#14431)
kitkat--Templeton Philosophy
I second StudioR's motion. I printed out a copy for myself, as well.

Thank you, Fergie

P.S. Anyone know the closing spot price of gold? And, by the way, at exactly what time of the day does the price lock? Is it at the close of COMEX? If so, when is that? Thanks.

Aragorn III
(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:01 - ID#212323)
Carefully stepping around the dog piles...phew!
Haggis__A ( Aragorn III............. ) ID#39862:
"What value can be found in a bagpipe, aye,"......... CULTURE man

Yes, indeed, that would be the bacteria culture thriving within the spittle filled bag...
Still have fond memories of the Black Watch and their fine performance earlier this year.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:02 - ID#269409)
@ *F* Janes & StagConstiplation
"Date: Mon Jun 29 1998 14:40 farfel ( @JANES...sobered up? Wife left you yet? ) ID#340302: One more time ( I need the laugh ) ...tell me your definition of stagflation."

Hmmm Farf...I'm not Janes, but isn't "Stagflation" a medical condition you're well aware of? Where everything is hopelessly backed up, causing swelling of the brain, and severe mental incapacity?...Just taking a guess here.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:03 - ID#298380)
LGB,Farfel,PH in LA
You yo-yos deserve each other.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:04 - ID#365216)
What premium are the platinum liberty eagles selling at?
Thanks for the email responses regarding platinum liberty eagles.
I wonder if I should invest in these coins if they have a significant
premium over bullion. I am looking for a bullion coin; not a
numismatic coin. Any comments as to whether the eagles are a good
investment at current prices; is there a chance they may come back
down to near bullion price levels again?


(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:07 - ID#288369)
@Isure....of what?
Oh, It's ol' RANGY-time...
It ain't worth a dime.
It smells like turpentine...
And looks like Frankenstein.

Yes, I'm scared fartless....let's buy some more....

Dear Mr. Rangy,

I am pleased to introduce to you our two new board members.....Isure and Studio. They're desirous of a double drink and a dollar dividend.

Your pal.
( you don't have one left )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:07 - ID#269409)
@ MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder)
Wow, just looked up this Multiple Personality Disorder thing in the latest edition of the DSM, and they gave an example of some Cyber entity who variously had manifested as "HepCat" and then "Farfel" oppsite sides of a "coin" so to speak, on some forum or another ( no pun intended )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:08 - ID#340302)
On Behalf of America, Clinton, Greenspan, and Rubin...
I urge you to ignore Sh*FacedatheBar's previous post ( He is a moron only exceed by LGiBBerish and PissPee ) .

The man lies! His apologies are completely false.

America loves seeing the rest of the world taking a dump. We hate you all. We hate suffering in Vietnam on behalf of a thankless world.

We hate all countries EXCEPT AMERICA.

So we're getting our revenge.

Go Screw Yourselves Up Your Collective Butts!!

America is strong and getting stronger. Invest in our country and pull all your monies out of your pathetic failing economies.

Our stock and bond markets are the best in the world. Our Dollar is the only decent currency in the world. Your currencies are all toilet paper.


Your tears and anguish bring great delight to our country. Your collapsing economies keep inflation from appearing in our wonderful God Blessed country. That means higher DOW and NASDAQ and more profits for America.

So, again, on behalf of America, I say to all the rest of the world...

Eat SH__T!



Aragorn III
(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:11 - ID#212323)
Fine work earlier by Earl...I repeat it now for its soothing effect...
Date: Sun Jun 28 1998 04:29
Earl ( ) ID#227238:
Copyright  1998 Earl/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

"...Gold seems to stand as a surrogate for that which is immutable, pure and never failing. A sense of honesty and trust that has stood the test of time. All of the things that we would like to find in the world around
us. It really isn't ( in my mind at least ) simply a matter of money.
It is simply uncorruptable. A virtue we seek in others .... but seldom
I suppose if platinum had been found in good supply, it might have
served as well. Though the color of gold and that connection to the
lifegiving sun would have carried the day.
I do believe that being a goldbug is a severe form of congenital defect.
Manifested by being hopelessly romantic.
Goldbugs are, and probably should be, totally separated from the
remainder of dispassionate investors. For they cannot help themselves;
it seems their destiny to co-mingle personal philosophy with gold. In
the process they are eternally handicapped in the business of
recognizing that the world will always remain less than perfect and will
always fall far short of their romantic illusion.
Gold is part of the unyielding search for perfection ...... in an
imperfect world. A religion based on the tangible. A hard copy of God
that requires no temporal interpretation. Amen. ......... Just one
fella's opinion."

Nice work, Earl.

got serenity?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:12 - ID#255217)
Thanks for your post. Reading that sort of thing makes my blood boil. And people wonder why militias and so-called right wingers hate the government and local law enforcement. I stay as far away from the mindless minions of government as I can. Far from increasing budgets of law enforcement agencies, I advocate cutting budgets to the bone ( 50% ) and forcing those who are left with jobs to tend to the real business at hand and leaving them with no time to harass Americans who just want to be left alone. The way to STOP this sort of thing is to STOP the funding of the bully-boys and make their jobs precious.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:13 - ID#210235)
Here are your numbers, I got them from Monex, which was verrrry slow to answer - so I'll copy instead of link you:

spot gold 294 ( no chnage )

spot palladium 292.00 ( down 4 )

spot platinum 354.00 ( down 2 )

spot silver 5.30 ( down .03 )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:15 - ID#269409)
@ General...Platinum Eagles
The 1997's ( One Ounce ) have a small premium over the 98's due to low mintage. About $10.00.... this premium will remain intact whether you are a buyer or seller, ( if anything it'll get larger over the years, thus favoring today's buyer ) thus it isn't much of a consideration.

No Platinum coin is going to sell right at "spot"..all will have a premium, whether Eagles, or other types. The Eagles seem to be quickly taking a domiment role in the market, thus they should have liquidity advantages and such in teh future.

I'm, not "advocating" Numismatic premiums, but keep in mind that the "Proof" version of the Platinum One Ounce 1997, is now worth approx. $300 MORE than what the buyer's paid who bought them from teh mint. And this during a time when Platinum is lower than it was during the sale of these coins last summer & fall.

Similar events have been ocurring in Numismatic Gold coins and Silver coins. Rising in a fallen precious metals market. The coins may even be a minor leading indicator of future movements in the PM prices. We shall see.

Anyway, I diverge. Your question was bullion Platinum coin related. Eagles ( and all coins ) will have a premium no matter market conditions, and this premium will be intact on both the "buy" and sell" side of the market, minus the buy/sell "spread", so it's really not much of an issue.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:20 - ID#227168)
Intellectual pretentious snotty Fartball
Fartball  If you want a piss war Im ready, willing and able see you tonight slime ball Away to air the house.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:21 - ID#329186)
farfel( Clinton & Co....?~ID340302
Got im Himmel can you really hate so many people and yet love all of a country such a sad case...........Hmmmmmmmmmm


(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:22 - ID#14431)
Prometheus, re closing metals prices.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:27 - ID#340302)
@PUSSBOYS...oh, you're getting there....
...try writing just one or two more lines...and hey, you might just pass for literate.

Now go back and smoke some more crack.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:30 - ID#227238)
Aragorn III: Thanks for your kind review.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:32 - ID#288369)
@Knighthood ceremony for EBean.
Have You been watching the azucar mercado ( sugar market ) ? WoW!!!!
We must now refer to our own EB, soon to be knighted, as "Sir EB".....Carry on and jolly good show!

P.S.....don't check the grains, especially da' beans......ohmy.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:34 - ID#354133)
Agree. Get this - I had to get fingerprinted in order obtain a renewal for my Federal Firearms License. Stopped in at my friendly local Cop-shop to do the honors ( charged me $10, by the way ) ... and happened to overhear a couple of our law enforcement's finest talking about how the new guys in the department were going to be funded: "Well, it's a good deal - Federal matching funds will pay the first half of their salary, state and local budget will pay the rest." "Yeah, we can make up the local part of their salary by writing more tickets. Did you hear the daily quotas went up by five?" TRUE STORY of Klinton's initiative to get 100,000 more cops on the street! Who cares about drugs and other crime - lets get those speeders! I have to stay on good terms with law enforcement, so I try to be cordial with them. Sometimes it's difficult. Kinda like Kitco, eh?
(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:39 - ID#434108)
Rubin can't help himelf: he's a pawn & instrument of the IMF war-lords' "CLUB"
They are the 'CLUB'...
who are determined to club Asia into economic submission,
& misery & destitute poverty.....just for starters.

They are a "CLUB" of the powerful, elite; whose script is
ultmately that they will weild "their" gold-pile,
( -U.S. Ft. Knox has yet got a lot; plus others ) ...
to establish their nwo.

No matter if millions are destitue, and even more ....starve.

This is the whirl-wind result of exporting U.S. paper dollar
'reserve currency'... all over the world, for a few

Exporting 'paper-dollar-hegemony' for decades has built this inverted world pyramid of debt, that is breaking off - in chunks & bits
-- first named as "Malaysia, S. Korea, Thailand, Japan;" and spreading now...relentlessly.... to many more names, like:
Pakistan, Russia, So. Africa, Mexico, So. America.....and more

The problem with this power-mad "CLUB" that it doesn't
or wish to deal with the real reality....:

that they ( we/all of us ) are in the same boat as Malaysia, Korea, So. Africa,
Russia, etc.

The problem is, the "haves" nations, pretend to think
they can 'rescue'the "have-not" nations, by giving them ruinous, crippling interest rates, packaged as "IMF Rescues" ....

But -in the first place begin with:
it was the greed & corruption of exporting exploitive
interest-rates, via mushrooming U.S. paper-dollar loans/credits....exported all over the world for decades...
that lured these "havenot" nations into deep water,
and onto thin ice ..... to begin with.

So now the insanity has come full circle: and the "hand" - the 'haves' nations -
that insared the '3rd-world' - the 'havenots' nations,
will now .... rescue it/them... ??!!??!

( Give me a break. )

They, the power-centers of the "haves", are bent on dominion,
and breaking the back, and spirit, and resiliency of the
'3rd world' - "the have-nots".

( Or maybe their just inept. )

But the 'haves' are in the same boat with the 'have-nots'.

THAT.... is the message, the point ...
that 'the powers that be'... are missing,
or do not want to admit,
nor deal with...

Or, perhaps they are deluded & drunk enuf with their power &
seeming control, to be in so much denial that they cannot,
will not --- ( they refuse to ) see:

we are all in this Titanic together,
and it is going down.....
unless cooperative, collective international leadership
joins forces to help those in deepest trouble, rather than continue crushing them; and re-establish an internatioanl reserve currency, monetary & credit standard, backed by,& convertible to, gold.

The odds for such enlightened, courages collective world leadership, are not good. Thus, we might best be prepared for the almost inevitable: the Titanic world economy is going down.

The "IMF Bailouts" are but more poisoned medicine, rooted in the same,
continuing corrupted, artificial U.S. dollar money & credit games....
that fueled the current global crisis, originally.

The IMF's real intent is that they will insure that the haves
have more, while the have-nots, have even less...

until the insanity of it all....catches up, even with the most 'powerful of the powerful'....and takes
the haves down, juast as the havenots...
are already going down....

This entire going down.

Nowhere on the horizon, is there any evidence of the enlightened, courageous leadership....
that is called for, and essential;
if disaster on a world-wide scale
is to be averted.

How many eons of civilization will it take, for humanity to
learn that -
as long as the "powerful" ( -with their instruments/clubs..
of destructiuon, such as the IMF ) ....
see themselves as
separate.... & more worthy ....
and more capable...
and more 'in-control' .....
than the...
than the humble, the poor, the less fortunate,
the 3rd world, the havenots...... ( -including the
recently-rendered destitute ) ......

so long as humanity continues to delude itself, pretending ....
that it can survive,live, prosper & flourish...
on the basis of an "I win/you lose" world-game ...
so long as this kind of insanity prevails in the cooective mind of humanity...
so long as that....
will we continue to live in civilizations characterized
by boom-bust cycles colored in
brief rainbows of good-times - but temporary islands in the
midst of
endless floods and seas ( -& droughts ) of misery.

The only world-game that will ever bring justice, decency,
and well-being, to the greatest number, will be when
from the cycles of humanity's spiraling evolution, a
collective conscious awarteness is finally reached,
where people all over the world come to realize
that the only Real Game is:
an "I win when you win" game......rather than an "I win when you lose" game, as we have had so far, in the history of civilization.

So, our present world economic & currency/financial crisis, might best be described as the culmination, one more time of
endless, needless cycles up, but then down again....
to drown in a red-sea of red-ink, usury, manipulation, control,
exploitation... and blood.

So the current chapter has already begun,
first with the hemorrhaging in Thailand,
Malaysia, Indonesia, So. Korea, etc.

It is spreading: Honk Kong, Pakistan, Russia, So. Africa, Mexico,
So. America.....and more until....

The world's global economy of nations -- including the haves
as well as the havenots ....

including the IMF henchmen, their minions;
the power-broker/elites behind the scenes, even regardless of
their emergency & secret sessions & communications.........

all of us are swept up in, and then swept down...
in this one tragic, unnecessary,
chapter of humanity.....drowning... in a sea of
human greed & want .... and misery....

Must humanity yield itself to another shuddering lesson of
loss & more loss.

Must we obliviously ride to our doom, in another Titanic
of corrupted money & credit institutions & systems, which....
with their blinding pride, concentrating power, and controlling
conspirators ....
would take us -- all of humanity -- down to their depths...?!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:43 - ID#254269)
Quote of the Day; ......................... was posted at 13.03 today by.........................
Kitkat. Very good, sir.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:44 - ID#288369)
@'Tis a beautiful day to cuss and vent............
I must say, that I will be truly pissed all over if Disney buys back his Harmony at $3.25. Nothing personal, but I hope he feels some pain....or, a wee bit of remorse....okay, maybe some compassion for us poor "knuckleheads".

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:44 - ID#227238)
Studio R: Beans more than normal limit down. Off 32.75, basis Nov. All grains limit down today........ You see, there is something to be positive about. You aren't holding a warehouse full of beans at 670. ........ are you?

Gold: $294.80, basis Sept. ASB.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:44 - ID#230216)
Do what must be done.....uh huh.

away...from this, this Kitco.......... ( crazy man stufF* )


must have gotten some rain on those beanies over the weekend........ ( limit down ) ..................I sold *all* this a.m. at open.........It will be VERY choppy and VERY weather related from here on out........EH? Will look to re-enter next week or so........maybe............. ( got sugar ) ( ? )

Aragorn III
(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:46 - ID#212323)
A cut and paste of separate thoughts by tolerant1 and Earl...sums up nicely
"It is what it is and it needs no introduction..." [tol] "...a hard copy of God that requires no temporal interpretation. Amen." [Earl]

It pays to keep score, follow along, and work together to acheive greatness.
got reality?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:50 - ID#300202)
Betcha a beer LGB takes a peek.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:51 - ID#227238)
Studio R: One knucklehead to another, I still have some Harmony even though it ain't singin' in tune no more. Sold most of it on the backslide but not all. I think I'll join JD at 3.25. ...... "Catch a falling knife and put it in yer pocket ......... ". Sigh.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:54 - ID#288369)
@The Earl....................
Nope. Warehousing just about five pounds of pintos only. Yessir, The ONLY bullet I've missed in world must be changing. YES!!! When you come to OKC, as you promised, I'll cook my red beans for you....THE WORLD'S BEST!!!!!! No Doubt 'bout it! I'm not braggin'....uh huh. I am da BEANMAN.....ku koo ka joob.
(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:55 - ID#434108)
the unholy trinity: farfel, PH, & LGB

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:56 - ID#227238)
EB and the sugar thingy: A really strong countertrend rally???? ..... Visions of sugar plums by Christmas???? ..... or the sugar plum fairy??? Nah. Just a relief rally. But good hit anyway.

Crystal Ball
(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:57 - ID#287367)
Today's headline
"Chinese Roll Out The Red Condom For Clinton"

(Mon Jun 29 1998 15:59 - ID#230216)
two pees in a pod
Earl & EB ........same time post......'bout the same I had a bad feeling about the move Friday in grains. Did not have any corn and I knew this weather thing was gonna knock the beans down. But at least it didn't open 'limit down' and the market gave me a chance to pull my profits.......uh huh. Tried to buy a littl emore azucar this a.m......only to have it take off as soon as my order was put in........oh dear......said EB...... ( skipping to the brinks truck ) ...........yuk-yuk. I think some stalls are due at 950 and then 1050. Hey Earl, almost all of my options are in the money right about now.....even the ones I bought as the price was still dropping..... ( smile ) ........ ( $ ) .

StudioR........yu are too kind...........I am just the loudmouth who wouldn't shut up. I was told by my broker-dude that MANY peopleos are long the white............I would love to see a whole lotta new buying not just this short covering. Those bears still have some good positions I bet......and will not go quietly........................

AWAY ( ! ) .....ohmy!


(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:01 - ID#227238)
Studio R: I'll look forward to it. Love 'em. 'N they love me .... mostly. ...... Must be off about the King's business. Yes, there is actually some to be done today. .......... off to seek the sugar bean fairy. ...... who lives on the crooked gold road.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:01 - ID#229277)
Golum: Talking dog just got back
Came back in, grabbed a beer, and headed back under the couch, said, "Keeping this *$@!# DOW under 9000 ain't gettin' any easier ( pant, pant, slobber, belch ) ."

He told me his name today, by the way: Paul. And get this, you'd never know it to look at him, but he's a poodle.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:03 - ID#217268)
"Salt of the Earth" stock and bond market leading indicators.....
It seems to me there ought to be some BASIC stock and bond market leading indicators, that are apparent to the average person in any size city or town, anywhere in the country, without relying on Wall Street lingo. These would EXCLUDE the following ratios: P/E, P/Book, Dividend Ratio, etc. Has anyone heard of any ??? POG ?????? Stock tips from shoe-shine boys ??? Price of pack of cigs/gallon of gas ???

I learned recently that corporations ( banks are corporations ) are valuing DEBT so as to turn it into a CREDIT, for balance sheet purposes. The debt can be SOLD with a certain S&P / Moody's "rating". So, in effect, Debt does not subtract from Credit, Debt ADDS to Credit. Securitize it, sell it off, repeat. It's interesting times we live in ( pun intended ) .

Crystal Ball
(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:05 - ID#287367)
@ Anybody
What's "ASB"?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:09 - ID#288369)
@The Earl and The Knight..............
Nice work guys!!!!!Now, if your highnesses would kindly slay this pesky Gold Bear.......yes, the Golden Sword of Justice awaits your beckoning. It will fit well in your grip....and it knows what to do. ( swish )

Gold Dancer
(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:09 - ID#377196)
Thanks for your last post. I think I agree with what you say.
Especially the part about winning. I'm very tired of the I win
you lose school. It's sick.


Don't put the horse in back of the cart.

The system is what drive the behavior eventhough one can't see that.
ANY money system that pays interest is a vulture system. The banks
create an interest rate burden on top of a loan. They create the money
for the loan but don't create the money for the interest. The person
or Nation must go out into the economy and take that "interest money"
from some one else. Yes the banks pay interest but never as much as
what they take in. Therefor someone must go bankrupt in the process.
It is in the cards so to speak.

This is what Alan Greenspan meant when he said only a few months ago
that every 20 years or so the taxpayers have to bail out the banks.

Add in the IMF etc. with their "intent" to distroy by the lending they
do and you have a prescription for the next great war. But they will
blame the other guy just like the passive/agressive wife who blames
her husband for the breakup.

The problem with war is that the wrong people get killed. A revolution
would be better. Or better yet it's too bad the Indonesians didn't
catch up to the IMF boys as they made their escape.

In the end we will all suffer whether we have gold or not.

But in the REAL end I do believe in karma. That's why I could never work
for an organization that supports any of this. That doesn't leave many
places to work does it.

Thanks. GD

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:10 - ID#194311)
hmmmm.....i was happy today.....
and then I read kitco.

Boy how misery loves company.

Seems like US markets ( F* ) are waking up to the plight of the world.

Gonna get real ugly here on in.
(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:15 - ID#434108)
pyramid's leading indicators
There's a popular coffee-shop/breakfast nook, here ( San Diego ) , at the foot of Crystal Pier: "Kono's Cafe".

They have a tiny chalk-board at the edge of their
'place-orders-here' counter:

"Number of Days since we last Raised Menu Prices".

Sunday morning, 6/28, it was 'chalked' with:

"3-days" ....

I asked the Sun. morning manager how long it had been, prior to
that change of 3 days ago; he said: "5 years".

( Could this be a reliable indicator of returning/resurgent...
inflation? )

I asked the Sun. morning manager

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:17 - ID#335190)
Compaq details job cut plans

HOUSTON ( Reuters ) - Compaq Computer Corp. on Monday offered details of previously announced plans to cut 17,000 jobs as it integrates Digital Equipment Corp. and Tandem Computer, two companies it recently acquired.

The computer maker said it would cut 5,000 manufacturing jobs worldwide and close plants in Singapore, China, Taiwan, Japan, Australia, Scotland, Brazil, Canada and at facilities near its headquarters in Houston.

The moves come after Compaq completed its $8.4 billion acquisition of Digital Equipment earlier this month and its purchase of Tandem for $4.1 billion last summer.

Digital PC business is expected to be folded into Compaq's. After the job cuts, Compaq will emerge with about 67,000 employees.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:19 - ID#347235)


(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:19 - ID#288369)
@Crystal Ball...............
"as before" abbreviation coined by LGB, I believe..... ;^ ) ~
(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:26 - ID#434108)
GoldDancer @ 16:09
Thanks for your resonse.
I'm not sure about your "system drives behavior".

I tend to agree with those who espouse:
we ( each ) create our own reality, and destiny.

Of course, we do, individually, and collectively, at many times
surrender to allowing someone/others/banks/IMF/gov'ts etc.,
take control;/responsibility for our lives.

Tha is in fact, precisely why the world is in such a collective
mess, today ( imho ) .

Thanks again for reading my rambling post,

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:29 - ID#340302)



OK, you got it?



P.S. Screw Gold.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:30 - ID#257148)
..........Beam me up Scotty!......
Retired Soldier
Janes = James. just ANOTHER poster who drew abuse from F* this am

Please do your thing. F*'s unceasing personal abuse directed randomly at all and sundry is wearying and drawing more and more posters into the vortex of invective and insult. I mean if you're gonna insult, you should at least be focussed, yes?

Don't waste your breath talking to me, cos I won't waste mine in a reply.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:30 - ID#252127)
If the IMF were disbanded

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:30 - ID#434108)
Ret. Sold. & farfel
Now look guys, if kitco goldbugs can't learn to treat each other with mutual respect/civility,
how will we ever save the world with all our gold?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:30 - ID#288186)
Latest Comex Warehouse totals...

COMEX Metal Warehouse Statistics for June 29

Gold 1,010,619 + 0 troy ounces
Silver 85,972,092 + 223,649 troy ounces
Copper 64,056 - 826 short tons

N/A= Not available.

Gold Dancer
(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:31 - ID#377196)
Does this mean anything

You boys with the desire to do pissing matches should do them via e-mail.

Thanks in advance.
(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:34 - ID#434108)
what are we here for? .... heat ?....or light?
If the individual's need is to vent spleen, blow-off steam,
and/or generate 'heat' - rather than genuinely share 'light';

then, perhaps.....
there are more appropriate 'venues' to go to....
other than kitco's discussion board/s.....

( just my opinion )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:34 - ID#285392)
BART -- Would you please do something about the constant bickering?
Your site is too good to be diminished by personal conflicts. The majority of contributors are intelligent, well informed and appreciated. Let's not lose them for the sake of a few who are unwilling to live up to your codes of conduct. ENOUGH ALREADY!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:35 - ID#343171)
Franco-nevada and Euro-nevada were in a Globe and Mail article friday saying they want to be the gold mining industries "bank of last resort" to take advantage of the weak financing markets for gold.

These two companies are THE saviest players out there and have a $800M cash position to play with, in a gold bull they both have super leverage relative to all stocks as they are chiefly a royalty owner.

Farfel claims to have bailed on gold, why is he freaking then? Truth no doubt is he didn't sell and is loosing patience, my guess is he has more than just beer money riding on gold. Doesn't excuse the behavior but I know the angst.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:35 - ID#410198)
(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:36 - ID#434108)
Snowbird - Can Bart really be expected to rescue us, from ourselves....?!...
....reminds me of the kind of "logic" that asks for gov't rescues, etc.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:40 - ID#343171)
here is what the great david carradine-esque ANOTHER would say about todays "ears that bite":

"the hyena barks yet the caravan passes"

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:41 - ID#26467)
FWIW unable to get a 18 3/4 fill went \short 18 9/16 with
a 18 3/4 stop.XAU broke down 68.40 on our way to 60.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:47 - ID#254269)
@ aurator ;. Are there any publicly traded gold companies in Noo Zee...............
land and what do you think of them ? TIA for a response.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:49 - ID#210235)
Cool writing! No need to preface it somebody else would have said . . .

Keep it up!

Gold Dancer
(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:52 - ID#377196)
I can see your point. Eventhough I live in the system I have always
taked responsibility for myself. Sometimes to my disadvantage. I have
been taked advantage of by liars and cheats ( most wearing suits ) so it
is an individual choice about how one acts. Just look what is happening
on this site today!
My only point is that the if the banks do not create the money your
supposed to pay back you have to take that money from someone else. That
is just a fact.Yes, you can work harder, smarter, etc. but the fact still
remains that it does create a vulture economic system.
Look at it from the gov'ts stand point. Once they got so far into debt
they had to keep creating more because there is not enough money available to pay back the debts incurred already. So the only thing they
can do is to keep creating debt until the system implodes. I don't think
any person in the govt or any place else has the courage to say the
game is over. The people would not tolerate this. So things will go
along with debts increasing until it falls in a way that someone else
can get blamed.
I wish it were different.

Regards and thanks.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 16:56 - ID#350179)
IMF stuff
IMF lends $86M to former Soviet republic Kyrgyzstan

S. Korea closes 5 weak banks in IMF reform move

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:00 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 30.66. The 50 day moving average is 30.15

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:05 - ID#317193)
Gold & grains
Regarding my prior posts on corn, beans and even wheat...scratch that. Can you spell LIMIT DOWN. Ouch! Gold was not down much.

There is a bright side to this story but not bright enough to post! : )


(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:05 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .234. The 50 day moving average is .262. My database contains 26 occasions where the XAU closed in the 68.XX range. Ranked according to the gold price today is #19. The #1 ranking was on 4/29/86 with a gold price of $345.00, an XAU of 68.71, producing an XAU/AU ratio of .199

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:07 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 55.05. The 50 day moving average is 53.77

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:10 - ID#26793)
The numbers below are all 50 day moving averages
Spot gold $298.23; spot silver $5.57; XAU 78.51

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:15 - ID#147201)
Silverbaron re Privacy
Thanx a bunch for the PGP. I'm going to leave it on tonite when I hit the sack. I've got an anti virus program and this should round out pretty well.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:15 - ID#287186)
After Y2K I am counting on NOTHING
Except sunshine and snow to melt or water in a mountain stream.
Breathable air - it'll be smoky due to fires twixt here and LA.
That's it!
Air, Water & Light.
The rest will be from stores I've squirreled away.
The rest = Defense, Shelter, Clothes, Food, & Books to read.
And that's the rest of the story!
Gonna be great campin' out in a cold apartment!
Oh yeah - fire extinguishers and toilet paper.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:18 - ID#350179)
Japan's FY '97 overseas plant deals fall 40%

Contracts for building factories abroad signed by Japanese
companies in fiscal 1997 were worth $11.68 billion, down 40.8% from
the previous year, the government reported Monday.
The decline -- the first in the 1990s -- reflected a sharp fall
in orders from Thailand, Indonesia and other Asian economies hit by
the currency crisis that emerged last year, the Ministry of
International Trade and Industry said.

Chinese President Jiang to visit Japan on Sept. 6-12

Chinese President Jiang Zemin will make a weeklong visit to
Japan starting Sept. 6, diplomatic sources said Monday.
During the visit, Jiang will hold talks with Prime Minister
Ryutaro Hashimoto and other political and economic leaders, they

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:19 - ID#210235)
@Difficult times
While early in the inflation, wages kept pace with prices, gradually wages slipped, to an astonishing 40% decrease in buying power from their previous norms.

The 10% wealthiest folks keeps amassing ever higher percentages of the world's assets, from 33 to 48% in a hundred years. The poorest 20% share of the wealth slips from 1.7% to 0. Homelessness and poverty are the lot of many.

Fiscal imbalances between public income and expenditures resulted in deep government debt. Public deficits grew out of control.

As the next stage began, prices stopped their steady rise. Now wild price swings of increasing amplitude occurred. Inequality increased at a rapid rate. Public deficits surged higher. Economies became dangerously vulnerable to stresses.

Governments manipulated their coinage with an increasingly heavy hand, devaluing or revaluing their currencies. Governments imposed export controls to keep subjects from getting their money out the country and into safer currencies.

Both great and small states teetered on the edge of bankruptcy. They struggled to survive by borrowing heavily at ruinous rates of interest and by debasing their moeny, introducing powerful instabilities into the price system.

More workers competed for fewer jobs and wages lagged behind price increases.

The banking boom came to an end; While one of the world's largest banks struggled over a decade after its loans went sour to avoid collapse, many other banks greedily made loans to foreign nations. By necessity, they had to continue making ever larger and larger loans to keep defaults at bay. Gradually the loans and the banks collapsed, with many smaller ones going under before the greatest finally folded.

Exchange rates became highly unstable, creating dislocations in trade.

Oh, yeah. The late 13th and early 14th centuries were really rough. You should see what happened next . . . . another day.

paraphrased and condensed from THE GREAT WAVE by David Hackett Fischer

Oxford University Press, 1996.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:22 - ID#317193)
Disney...ever closer...
3.75...only .50 to go.


(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:25 - ID#14431)
S&P500/Gold ratio hits another new high...
The S&P/Gold ratio hit another new all-time high today: 3.882. We are now 38.5% over 1968's peak day ( 2.802 ) and 150.9% over 1929's peak day ( 1.547 ) .

Amidst all the equities craziness, it might help to recall the stunning declines in the ratio that have taken place in this century. First, from 1929 to 1942 bottom ( 0.221 ) , stocks fell relative to gold by 85.7%, or -13.9% per year. Second, from 1968's peak to the 1980 trough ( 0.130 ) , equities' decline relative to gold was 95.4%, or -22.6% per year. I'll bet that felt different than today!

Trees do not grow to the sky. The tide will turn someday; no one knows when. What we do know is that the ratio currently far exceeds the previous two highs attained this century. Those highs, were, in turn, succeeded by crushing twelve and thirteen-year bear markets, in which stocks fell, relative to gold, by an average of about 90%, or an average of 18% per year.

Times will change. In the meantime, we are affored an incredible opportunity to buy gold, take delivery, hold it close, and hang in there during these very scary times.


(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:37 - ID#147201)
fergie re S&P/gold ratio
Very interesting. Do you have any charts? How about relative timing from highs to declines? At this point , I can't tell whether this is just historic or whether there is some pertinent correlation to today. I don't have any history. Thanx, Charlie
(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:37 - ID#434108)
Jack/IMF/"Vulture Countries"
Jack, I believe your "Vulture Countries" post may have been response to a previous post of mine. :: )

My intent is to address the IMF as an instrument of powerful gov'ts gone awry.
And "Vulture" governments are not synonymous with 'countries'.
A country or nation of people, is not synonymous with their
corrupted government/power-structure/elite.

It is important to separate the meaning & idea....
of a 'country' or nation, from....
from it's 'government'.

For example:
I believe the majority of most people of most countries,
really want to get along with another, help each other,
serve each other, trade equitably with each other, etc.

The IMF is an instrument of the power-structure/institutions,
that are currently governing/ruling ...
the more advanced, industrialized countries -- the federal governments of the U.S., & leading European nations.

Any gold that the leading powers have contributed to the IMF,
they have done so, in my opinion, to maintain the staus quo.

The status quo is inherently flawed, and corrupted, by a
paper-dollar monetary & credit system of a U.S. dollar ( -no longer backed by/or convertible to gold ) ....a U.S. paper dollar
that has continued as
the reserve currency & monetary 'standard' of the world.

This has evolved, over time, to an increasinglly unstable system of floating currencies, where U.S./European monetary hegemony... and
a kind of 'dollar-imperialism' has spread throughout the economies of the nations of the world.

This U.S. paper-dollar based monetary world is the basic
underlying cause of the growing economic crisis challenging
the world community today.

This dollar-hegemony' is what has undermined the foundation
of hope, hard-work, and economic & monetary stability....
that are innate countries and their freedom-loving people....
no matter their national allegiance/identity,
ethnicity, or religion.

Here, in the governments, and the powerful interests they have
sold-out to, are where lie the "vultures"... that are using
the IMF, and other devices/instituions, to exploit/prey upon....
the Se Asian nations.

More & more countries, not just the SE Asian nations, are being
subjected to "IMF bailouts"... crushing any light
of aspiration for renewal among their people.

The desire for freedom and a bettter life are being crushed by IMF dictatorial, usury orchestrated for the goals & benefit of powerful concentrations of power, who have rested control of the
monetary & banking institutions of the free world.

A return to gold-backed international momney & credit, convertible to gold, would shatter this strangle-hold of the 'vultures'.

It will not come about, without a "Titanic fight".

Again I hope this offers some clarity, and mutual understanding:
...the "vultures" are not in the 'countries', but in the
concentrated power of the 'haves' countries' GOVERNMENTS...

These governments are no longer representative, democratic
governments. They have sold out their respective electorates;
they have, over time, sold themselves ( out ) ,
to special interests.

Any objective study/review of the campaign costs, to wage
an election campaign to get elected, for state, congressional,
or federal/executive elective office, in the U.S.;...

will give more than adquate evidence of how totally, democracy & representative gov'ts, have been sold - out...
to the highest bidder, with the deepest pockets -- of various special interests.

Thus, the IMF will continue to get "vulture governments" that
are more than eager to turn over a portion of their gold to the
if these "vulture" governments, with their special-interests
power-base, continues to believe that it is important
to their continuing influence, dominance & control.

They fork over the gold to the IMF, not for the sake of helping
assorted countries in economic trouble,
but for the sake of maintaining their power.

They are, indeed, the "vultures".
The IMF is but one of their instruments...
of exploitation & domination.

Their interest & concern, is for themselves;....
... not for the sake of what is in the best interest
of the people of their countries, their nations.

Gold Dancer
(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:42 - ID#377196)
Thanks for the bright spot on KITCO on an otherwise dark day. History
is in the making. How will we survive? FAITH IN TRUTH. Thanks GD

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:43 - ID#14431)
chas--S&P500/Gold Charts
Yes, I have annual averages manually fed into an EXCEL spreadsheet and made charts from the data, going back to through 1901. But I don't know how to post them here. Want to e-mail me and I'll get it to you?

Thanks, Fergie

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:44 - ID#43460)
Farfel, Rerired Soldier et al:
Some porridge for the soul this cold blustery winter evening:
From King Henry V Act IV scene III:

"KING HENRY V 'What's he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin:
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires:
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England:
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more, methinks, would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.'
(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:45 - ID#434108)
Donald's statistics/ratios/data
Any chance you could bless us with some charts that depict
some of your favorite statistics?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:46 - ID#288295)
GOLD in nanoelectronics
Not fresh news, but interesting information for you technical types on GOLD applications ...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:48 - ID#410198)
Wash.Post gets into conspiracey...13 MEN SHAPE THE WORLDS ECONOMY...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:48 - ID#34857)
RE: F*
Yep, we're being had, guys.

F*'s doing his RJ impersonation and enjoying the hell out of our collective reactions.

Read him carefully ... you'll see.

HenryD ( I got more Gold today! )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:53 - ID#43460)
gold dancer you left out cef
also up!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 17:58 - ID#57232)
Sir John Templeton
Kitcat: I like your 13:03 -- agree with another Kitcoite that that post is the post of the day. If that is the same Sir John Templeton as the mutual fund manager, my hat is off to him as well.

All: Please read Kitcat's 13:03 today, especially Farfel. Much of our individual worth in this world is based on how we interact with others. Humans are social beings. If we act poorly, the biggest loser is the person who acts poorly, not the others who suffer by it.

Also, one day's bad performance can negate months of good will.
(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:00 - ID#434108)
fergie's S&P/gold ratio post
Your commments/observations, remind me of the fornt-page Barron's article/chart, I believe it was last weeks, that depicted the
Dow's PE at market tops, for the last 100+ years.
As I can best recall, they have all peaked - the PE, and the corresponding Dow/market tops, when the PE ratio reached approx. "20"....except this PE ratio has spiked ( -along with the Dow/S7P ) to 28-29 PE.

An un-heard-of -- never-before-recorded-in the recorded history
of the markets.....extreme/overbot/over-extended value....
of PE values to stocks' values.

Such a 'hyperbolice curve'....the likes of which...
we have never seen before...
nor will again.....perhaps for generations to come

And since we all know ( -all we kitcoites,right? ) ....
that all hyperbolic curves exhaust themselves...
in ( -the engineer's term: ) "infinity"...
( we do all know this, don't we? )

there should be quite a crash......

when she comes.....

( she comes...... )

A good case can certainly be made that 'infinity' the
stock-market charts ( -& PE charts ) .... is here/now.

The following url, was provided at kitco on 5/19/98,
by 'Winston_A', at 19:18.
If it still comes up, I think it is a worthwhile chart
to study/ponder.

"Infinity"... is near, or nearly .... at hand.


( imho )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:03 - ID#287186)
Always Remember and Never Forget
"It is a prudent step to vest in the government of a nation the title to and possession of all monetary gold within its boundaries and to keep that gold in the form of bullion rather than coin."

FDR - 01/15/34 message to Congress

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:04 - ID#227238)
Prometheus ( @Difficult times ) : More! More!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:07 - ID#411331)
@ all: The Kitco group discussion is a community of intellectuals
from across this planet. Each of us is entitled to his/her opinion.
IT IS A WASTE OF TIME TO FEUD. ( Sorry for the shouting ) I may
have stated this earlier, but IMHO, we have posters who argue from
cross-purposes. Some of you are long term investors, and base
your opinions on long term fundamentals in both economics and politics.
Others are short term traders and chartists. One group says gold's going
up and the other disagrees. You can both be correct given the
different time scales.

It is not important to always win an argument. It is important to have
opinions considered, and discussed. Even a flawed opinion can establish
a new thread leading to important insights. I guess what I am trying
to say here is that a community is based on tolerance, and we should try
to build that tolerance, and build a more comforting Kitco community.

Ladies and gentlemen, can we give the angst a rest, and try to build
an understanding of what is befalling our poor world?

I should mention gold here so here goes. Now that the Evander-Harmony
merger is complete, does anyone here know how much Harmony stock was issued to complete the deal? If I use the old figures of 49 million
shares, and the new reserve of 100 million oz, the cost per oz works
out to about $2 at the present price for Harmony. That can't be right!

Does anyone know the present issue for Harmony or a URL for its
(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:11 - ID#434108)
Sqirrel @ 18:03
Lets hear it for all squirrels & all coin-hoarders.
Hope springs eternal in the squirrels' nests.
( how do you spell 'squirrel' any way...
is it squirrel...or squirrell...or .....oh welll.....
[-I used to teach English, but they fired me]... )
now....I buy callls ....
in gold & silver futures...

let's hear it for ..... hope

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:12 - ID#252150)
Retired Soldier@I have no need to defend myself against F's rantings about
anti-semitism as I'm sure Aurator & other long time posters will attest to. But since his lame attempt to smear me probably caught your attention I will hereby offially deny it & defy him to repost anything that could even remotely connect me with racism. As a matter of fact, the only time I can even recall mentioning Jews was when I criticized him for racism baiting & reposted a quote from one of his own posts.

No. The only anti-semitism I was ever involved in exists in his fevered & tortured mind.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:13 - ID#43460)
According to RJ's weekly comment it's looking for PGM's! Now if the price would just go up!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:17 - ID#288369)
@fergie and davidmac...............
Fine work and a delightful change of pace for this day. Thanks ;^ ) ~
(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:17 - ID#434108)
rhody@ 18:07, + a 'url' for Harmony
rhody for president ( -based on 'tolerance' comments at 18:07 )

here is a Harmony Mining url:

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:20 - ID#227238)
henryd__A ( RE: F* ) : First, there must be interest. There is none.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:23 - ID#255151)
Jeremy @ 14:02

No sweat, mate. Gave me an excuse to try out the Shakespeare search engine I found on the net. Makes me appear more ejucated than I really are!
(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:29 - ID#434108)
ANGLY probing for 'final' lows
Yahoo chart ( s ) of bell-weather Anglo-American suggest
that this mining share price & volume action/pattern..
is indicative of a stock 'probing' testing for its trading-lows..
.. perhaps its final lows.

There is a notice-able decline in volume for this "leading" ...
gold stock, as it has declined to prices within...
1 or 2 points of its January share-price low.

( See yahoo chart/url below )

If this tock does what I think it will do:

either turn up...
now/over the July 4th holiday period...
even if it breaks below its Jan. share price low....

if it turns up, and with steadily increasing volume....
in the few days &/or few weeks just ahead.....

gold's next bull chapter will have arrived...

( imho ) / ( my 2-cents/worth )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:29 - ID#227238)
fergie: The SP formed a modest shooting star for the day ... wouldn't short it but it may ( note equivocation ) presage a mild decline. The final bar for the day was up on big volume.

Gold?? Lackluster and ASB. ...... forming a flatbottom triangle ..... with a potetial break to the downside???? ....... and in other news......

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:31 - ID#288369)
@Jeremy...........Bloody Bad Bong-os.........
Where was your Thai ganga today when it was most greatly needed? ( maybe a firehose would have been more appropriate! ) Myohmy, One big happy family...yessir. GULP GOLDBUGS!!!!!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:43 - ID#287186)
Klinton would love this!
"The movement to collect hoarded gold from the people commenced early in March, Congress on the 9th, in a special session, granting the President dictatorial power over all forms of money." World Almanac - 1935

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:43 - ID#72316)
@ Farfel 15.08
Say it like it is,


(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:45 - ID#227238) yoo speek da trute. ANGLY is settling in around 34 with slightly rising volume. OBV is also turning more positive as well.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:45 - ID#350179)
Poking around a bit

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:48 - ID#252150)
A Lament For Farfetched
Alas, poor Farfetched, I knew him well

And a doughty lad he was before he suffered
that terrible 10 round pummeling
by Rocky J.

He never had a chance with his weak tentative
jab against the power of Rocky

Unfortunately, the Doctor has diagnosed
permanent brain damage

And now he lurches about, a punch drunk,
never has been, feinting jabs at shadows
and spouting gibberish

If any fellow Kitco-ites should come across
poor F* in their travels, in some back alley
having lost their way

Try to think kindly of him and exchange
a cliche or homily

But don't mention gold or you may send
him into an incoherent fit

Off to drink a toast to the old Farfetched & reflect sadly on the hologram which replaced him.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:51 - ID#347235)

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:53 - ID#350179)
Litghten up dewds

The Hatt
(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:54 - ID#294232)
Yen Back Over 142 Again!
Japans problems are just beginning and I could not believe that the plunge protection team of CNBC actually suggested the worse could be over.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:58 - ID#194311)'s something fresh to chew over....
from the mind of Prof. Ian Stewart...a clever lad.
Note well the comments on "mass extinctions being inherent
in the makeup of populations"....All ready for a good
old fashioned mass-extinction, at least we would rid of
the one too many economeister witch doctors, etc.

Can life be divined by mathematics? One man
thinks numbers can reveal its secret.
Anjana Ahuja reports

The nature of numbers

One thought has been perplexing Professor Ian Stewart, a Warwick University
mathematician and popular science writer, for more than 20 years. A close
look at the living world - from amoebas to sunflowers to snowflakes -
reveals an eerie link to the esoteric world of mathematics.

For example, each snowflake is not only a unique ice sculpture, but also a
perfect hexagon. A cauliflower is a version of a fractal - a mathematical
pattern that repeats on different scales. The vegetable is made up of
florets which are made up of florets, which are - you've guessed it -
made of florets. The same can be said of trees, because branches and twigs
look like miniature trees.

A survey of numbers in the plant kingdom, such as numbers of petals in
flowers, reveals a preponderance of numbers in the Fibonacci sequence, a
well-established sequence in which each number is derived from adding the
previous two numbers. The most common such sequence is 1, 2, 3, 5, 8,
13, 21, 34, 55, 89, and so on. Even though this roll-call of figures
appears meaningless, it crops up in the strangest of places, most
curiously in sunflowers.

The heads of sunflowers are dotted with tightly packed spirals of
sunflower seeds. Some coil clockwise, others anticlockwise.
Count them up, and you will find that the numbers of spirals in each
direction is a Fibonacci number. Not only that, but the two numbers will
be neighbours in the sequence. The most common pairs are 34 and
55, and 55 and 89.
The findings are too curious to be just coincidences. Mathematical rules
and patterns, says Professor Stewart, appear to be buried deep in the
natural world. In Life's Other Secret, his intriguing new book, he argues
that life moulds itself beautifully to these numerical rules because the
universe organises itself along mathematical lines.
Similarly, he thinks the public has been duped into falsely believing that the struggle to unravel the human genome will tell us everything about humanity. "Once the human genome is sequenced, we will discover that a big piece is missing. Whatever is in that catalogue doesn't make us human."
One surprisingly fruitful way that mathematics can shed light on life is
by trying to simulate the evolution of "animals" on computer. Several
competing virtual organisms are fed into a computer and left for a period
of time. Despite enormous simplifications, the models do throw up common
features of the evolution of life.

The organisms manage to replicate or die out. And, given long enough, a
mass extinction will take place: "It shows that replication and mass
extinctions are features of life," Professor Stewart says. "They are not
rare or special properties."
How does life seem to operate so autonomously if, as Professor Stewart
says, we are guided by a strict rulebook? Paradoxically, that autonomy
arises as a result of us obeying it. Quite simply, when we plug lots of
little bits and pieces together, certain properties ( so-called emergent
phenomena ) will only emerge with the whole entity.

The human brain is a perfect illustration: "One nerve cell is not
intelligent but here we are, having an intelligent discussion," he says.
Wouldn't it be marvellous if mathematicians could show, in a simple
model, that organisms can take on a life of their own? In fact, computer
simulations already do that - they show that virtual organisms evolve and
adapt, and even develop new rules for survival. It is as if these
organisms are thinking for themselves. Just as it appears that living
creatures, including human beings, think for themselves.

Professor Stewart believes we will eventually hit on something approaching
a mathematical theory of life. He knows his forthright views about the
failings of modern genetics don't make him popular in some circles but he
is unrepentant about muscling in: "DNA is absolutely fascinating, and I
think that Watson and Crick's discovery of its structure is the biggest
scientific achievement this century. But DNA is irrelevant to the
question of what is life.

"Besides," he adds mischievously, "biology is far too interesting to be
left to the biologists."

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:59 - ID#411331)
@ Thank you for the Harmony URL. I spent
the better part of an hour mucking about in a series of SA URLs that
had an infuriating paucity of info. John Disney thinks hgmcy will
touch $US3.50, where he wants to pick it up. It traded once this
morning at $3.75. He may call the bottom, but will he be able to
pick up any stock! Thanks again.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 18:59 - ID#255151)

HA! Good one!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:01 - ID#340302)
@JANES...Alas poor Janes...
...the anti-semitic transvestite from Hell. I knew her well, drunken coward waiting to post once I am nowhere in sight. Hiding from his butch wife and she from her.

A great believer in the Jew Boys Club, she and many others like her.

"Tell us more about the Jew Boys Club," I did once ask fair Janes.

But she doth protest and let loose many womanly tears, no?

With unique definitions of stagflation pretending an ounce of education past grade school

Oh, fair, fair, Janes...pitiful, pathetic bitterness from the great Canadian tundra wasteland, soon to be 51st state. Some men find her attractive, but I only with bag over her ugly face.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:10 - ID#433172)
Aragon 3 Goldfever Argent Gunrunner
Aragon-- You may already be familiar with the immense number of references to gold in literature. They have been somewhat catagorized by Carl Jung, and others suscribing to this vien of thought. Classicists often refer to it as you did in your earlier post. It's clear it has much more meaning to us than just wealth or money, it's "correct" right down to it's color

Goldfever-Argent-Gunrunner-- A lot less cops--a lot less laws-a lot more self-reliance. Self-rightousness lends itself to many a foul play. I'm not trying to tell anyone this, we all know it.

On a lighter note my gold stocks seem to be holding steady, maybe something will turnup.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:15 - ID#368244)
@ Kiwi

The master planner invented mathmatics, why should anyone be suprised?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:16 - ID#43349)
Well, Paul the Poodle didn't do too badly. I didn't get a chance to pull any levers today, so I wasn't much help. I see things didn't get too much out of hand. Chesshire cat must be a bear instead of a cat though.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:18 - ID#285392)
Goldfevr You may be right but**
Did you notice that the rancor diminished as soon as Barts name was mentioned? We should be able to govern our own behavior but is this is an example of it?? Bart has straightened out the site before when it has gotten out of hand, it's his call and his site. We keep losing great participants because of the name calling why lose more. If you have any hints on how to self-governance it would be great to hear them. Your thoughts are always appreciated.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:18 - ID#197184)
Armstrong Buys Gold Mine in Australia
For all those guys who seem to hate Armstrong because he's been bearish short-term on metals while remaining long-term bullish, besides being right, he also puts his money where his mouth is. He took a 51% stake in what some say could be a $6 billion gold mine. He seems to have caused a bit of a stir, CNBC Asia wants to know why he is buying gold mines in Australia and does this signal a turn in the industry. Looks like it could be interesting. He is more influential than Buffett since a lots of big funds and institutions are his clients. Will Armstrong haters suddenly become Armstrong supporters?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:19 - ID#411331)
@ all: The US Fed will inflate, and intervene to support the yen,
and all of this will happen between now and July 7
when UEC CBs meet again to discuss the status of
their gold reserves. The topic this time is
freezing further sales ( or not ) . Wouldn't it
be nice for gold if the ECBs froze further sales
at the same time the US dollar was sold down?

Something must give! Gold at 293 is the sound of
US dollars sucking the entire world down into a
depression. IMHO of course.

To Farfel, either you still beleve in gold, or
you do believe in the beneficial effects of
depressions. Please keep the faith.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:19 - ID#368244)


(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:30 - ID#227238)
While cleaning out old bookmarks:

From Nick Chase:

Does anyone recall President Roosevelt's Proclamation 2039 which began, "Whereas there have been heavy and unwarranted withdrawals of gold and currency from our banking institutions for the purpose of hoarding...." The purposes of hoarding? The gold belonged to individuals. They were withdrawing the gold because they didn't trust the banks. The proclamation provided that anyone violating the presidential order by withdrawing their own money from the bank "would be fined not more than $10,000 and jailed for not more than 10 years." In 1933 a $10,000 fine was equivalent to at least $100,000 in today's money. Ten years in jail is a greater sentence than given today in many cases for murder. And for
what reason? For withdrawing their own money from the banks. - Mary Mostert

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:31 - ID#50148)
Random thoughts.....
In Logical analysis, 'Begging the question', means the use of an argument that assumes as proved the very thing that you are trying to prove.

I submit for your examination a chart of the XAU, CRB, and the ratio there of. During 1992, the average ratio of the CRB to the XAU was about 2.8 to 1. Later in time, a new ratio of about 2:1 was established for the time period between the second half of 1993 to the end of 1996. From the beginning of 1997 to now, this ratio has made new five year highs, indicating a SOMEWHAT oversold condition in the XAU with regard to the CRB index. In other words, the last time the XAU was this low, the CRB index was about five percent LOWER than it's current value. Does this mean that the XAU 'has' to rise or the CRB has more to fall?

Would I dare to beg the question and say that this 'proves' deflation ? Or... is this merely an oversold condition compounded by a lack of interest by the general investing public? Clearly, gold stocks have been a losing proposition for the last ~2 years ( with a few 'trading' exceptions ) . The current trends in gold offer us nothing new. The best ( ! ) that could be said of gold is that of a 'bottoming' type action. The worst? Well, I think enough has been said on that front.

My opinion? The battle ahead is one of currencies. 'Beggar thy neighbor', will be an expression heard more and more often. Could U.S. interest rates be heading higher? I don't think so. The dollar is already too strong, and any increase in the rates would only exacerbate this condition. Also, let's not forget those 'dollar pegs'. Could interest rates be heading lower? Quite possibly for the U.S., but not just yet. The Fed fears that an 'asset bubble' that may be forming in the stock market. I suppose that one could always just 'bailout' of the equities markets and hold cash or cash equivalents, but then what is 'cash' but a debt obligation of the government ( ? ) . In the end ( no pun intended ) , the asset that is NO ONES obligation, will look the most attractive. The problem for us as traders or investors, is, as usual, to know when to buy and when to sell. Unfortunately, the only tools we have to use in this regard is history and its' cyclical nature. I would like to say that a simple chart would be able to guide us, but, we are forced to deal with the madness and delusions of the crowds. A most annoying and vexing situation.

Remember, if you must play in this casino, try to use STOPS, STOP LOSS ORDERS, and LIMIT orders. This may not always be possible, but the money you might save, will be yours. Also, don't put all of your eggs in to one basket ( gold ) , remember, gold and its' derivatives are a HEDGE against something ( ? ) . 'Scoring' the 'BIG ONE' is for gamblers. Gamblers, in reality, want to lose.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:38 - ID#376309)
more info
jefsilver7__A ( Armstrong Buys Gold Mine in Australia ) ID#197184:

Where did you see this information???

Please give source.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:38 - ID#50148)
Have faith in yourself or your God, not gold. Gold is for trading or hedging. Through out history, many have worshipped golden idols... Keep your wits about you man! :- ) )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:38 - ID#340302)'s a little hint... off all your mangy mutt buddies who keep attacking F* on a personal basis.

He CAN bite back ( far worse than anything seen here so haven't even begun to see MY COPY and PASTE yet ) .

Helpful hints: the name is NOT farfetched, fartful, farfelburger, farfelonious, etc.

More Helpful hints: don't mention or propagate theories about a "Jew Boys Club" on this forum. I have a lot of friends who are Jews. We will get the Jewish Defence League to find out who you ( really ) are and deal with you.

Yet More Helpful Hints: don't kick people ( like goldbugs ) when they are down on a daily basis.

Yet Even More Helpful Hints: lay off the fascist all-American love it or leave it! attitudes, extolling the virtues of Nirvana for America and the greater virtues of drinking piss for the rest of the world. It infuriates ( some ) Americans.

Yet Even More and More Helpful Hints: end the great Farfel gangbang NOW!
Unlike Mr. Puetz, I will not disappear but will retaliate with even fuller force.

Finally, apologize, just as I have done in the past to all on this forum. A real apology ( not an apology serving as merely a means to attack another poster a la LGiBBerish's deceitful tactics ) .

Until such apology is received I will post in the neo-fascist fashion which was so popularized by RotJerk, LGiBBerish, PissPee, Moronator, Retired Deserter, Pussboys, etc. At least, until Bart removes me.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:39 - ID#413109)
Wish I had more time to devote to reading the many great
posts here, but the y2k issue, our upcoming vacation trip,
and many other personal matters, just seem to interfere.
So when I come and see the nasty stuff, wasting everyone's
time, by the likes of some of you, and I don't need to mention
names, it saddens me, as I remember better days, and even then
gold was going down, so it isn't the prices that are effecting
the morale.

May I remind you all that we are guests on this site-----

Let's act like guests and not like we're itching for a street
brawl. Many are getting a little beyond that, both in age and
in wisdom, at least I hope so.

Haven't you all noticed how many really good posters we've lost
over past disputes, by those that enjoyed disruptions?

Simply ignore these petty foolish posters, and let's get on with
the work at hand. I still believe we're ready to start the up move
and this week should do it.

Play nice-Don't fight!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:39 - ID#342397)
F* and Discourse @ Kitco
I think F* needs to change his medication.
How do you pronounce F* anyway.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:41 - ID#342397)
Discourse @ Kitco
Whoops. F* could be a she.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:41 - ID#227168)
Farthead descanted upon the wonders of fomentation
Fartball  As you become some sort of the enigma that lives in the sewers of society and sends foul air unto the masses, you may be termed a peel head fruit or vegetableturning into a puddling and the catalyst
Is probably the struggle for the higher end of stupidity?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:41 - ID#340302)
@CROSSBITCH...who the hell are you?
You don't even know me, dick-for-brains?



(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:44 - ID#340302)
@PUSSBOYS...ohmiGOd...back again?
You ran out of crack already.

I'm sorry. I don't have any to send you.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:44 - ID#50148)
My last comment was not directed to you, but to everybody. Everytime we have a food fight on Kitco.... It's because gold managed to tank again. Nothing could destroy Clinton faster than a sinking Dow or S&P 500 index fund, NOTHING! Just look at all of the scandals. The obverse of that ( gold rising rapidly ) is true also.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:45 - ID#43460)
JJ__A Mark up one vote for bullion

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:46 - ID#340302)'re probably JANES in drag...



(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:47 - ID#342397)
I am a long time lurker and infrequent poster to this forum.
However, I have held respect and admiration for many of the posters here. You do it no service with your recent comments. Get over it!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:48 - ID#29048)
See my 6:44 this am for PEI buying Aussie gold.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:48 - ID#253153)
Please --Stop all these

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:50 - ID#340302) you "respect" many of the posters here...
...but you obviously don't respect me, addressing me as "Fasteriska."

So guess what, I don't respect you. Ergo, you can stick your head up your bunghole!


(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:50 - ID#434108)
Snowbird - I'm w/ you all the way: Bart's the Man.
He's the entrpreneur who took the risk, put up the bucks,
committed himself.... to/for this 'site'
for the sake of all of us, his endeavors, ours, and our multitdues of opinions.

If he is our answer to arresting/aborting...
the occassional vomit of emotional 'heat'...that some posters,
descecrate this otherwise worthy site, with...
then, so be it...
but, I'd like to think if the more reasoned, and temperate among
us, would simply flow freely, with our sincere posts,
in response to the appaling emotionalism of the
temporary-lunatics, who at times lose control of themselves,
upon this discussion-board/site....

I think it might reach ....
more deeply, more lastingly, and more healingly ....
into those errant souls' souls.

Of course, Bart is 'guru' & 'god' here, at kitco; as
he should be.

But all good, genuine gurus know, and operate from
the center of reality, that declares:
'all good gurus help others become gurus, themselves'.

I would like to believe that Bart would appreciate our mutual,
combined ability & efforts, to self-govern this/his site,
for the sake of our shared interest in the free exchange of
divergent, respected opinions...
for the sake of the freedom of speech & ...
of the freedom of assembly...
which are so magnificently preserved, and extended,
in the flourishing of the internet/web.

If need be, by all means bring down the hand & arm of law & order, of Bart, the 'gate-keeper'.

But surely, the sufficiently reasoned & mature among us, can reply, and respond adequately & effectively enough, to those emotingly errant souls among us, to temper their commments, and smooth their ruffled feathers, that we might all endeavor to help one another acquire & abound, in the bounty of gold.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:54 - ID#252197)
Farfel wins
the kitco D. Rickles award for 6-29-98.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:55 - ID#426220)
THE FIAT "K" WAVE - by Mike Sheller

The inimitable and venerable Mr. Astrological Investor has produced another essay of invaluable insights.

Mr. Sheller comments "The societies of the world are now spiritually and culturally bankrupt. History demonstrates that economic bankruptcy is
never far behind such a condition."

"This condition has been arrived at, in great part, through
the power of government fiat over the citizen's money.
Wherever Fiat money is defended, more rational voices
must be raised in protest."

Furthermore, he suggests to Fed Chairman:

"It would not be in any way too much to expect that a brilliant free
market thinker and economist such as Federal Reserve Board Chairman
Alan Greenspan would not see his opportunity to steer the economic
ship of state through the dark seas of deflation at the trough of the K Wave with the simplest antidote and preventive - lots and lots of money and credit."

All of Mike's recommendations to Greenspan may be seen at the following URL - as usual it is necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in word "golden" of the URL before posting it to your Internet locator:

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:56 - ID#342397)
You're right, I don't respect you, but I do respect this forum and will take up no more of Bart's bandwidth until you've seen a physician or counselor. Have a nice day.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:58 - ID#340302)
@CROSSBOW...I USED to respect this forum....
...until the Nazis moved in and took it over.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:58 - ID#227168)
Call a doctor !! Quick
Its quiet obvious the man Farthead is a lunatic from the dark side of the moon He must be crushed like a cockroach Amen to dead insects

(Mon Jun 29 1998 19:59 - ID#413109)
As always Panda
Great charts, thanks, and points well taken.

Date: Mon Jun 29 1998 19:31
panda ( Random thoughts..... ) ID#50148:

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:00 - ID#340302)
@PUSSBOYS....oh, just go back to your ghetto...'ll be so much happier, moron. Don't forget your food stamps.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:02 - ID#432112)
What information do you have regarding further intervention for the Yen? Let it be Music to my Ears ( Eyes ) whatever...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:03 - ID#343171)
dig these latest nocturnal emmissions:

Mr. Michael Kosares,

These Thoughts for all!

The winds blow well on this cloudless night. All are asleep with the dreams of what tomorrow may bring. I have help to print these words for the future. Indeed, this be a "conversation of our Thoughts" for this quiet time of life. Yes, this is a fine evening to consider gold!

( snatch the nugget from my hand another-hopper )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:04 - ID#433143)
Someone whack these guys in the ding ding. if it aint about gold
or y2k, or world events, Id rather not read about how someone can kick someones elses ass... othewise id rather be readin some other lame site..

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:08 - ID#263379)
@ Sheller...full Moon antics
Now Mike, you know I've been a skeptic about this full moon stuff, re corrolations to absurd human behaviouor. After today's posts, and being quite "FarFrom" the "Full Moon" ....I rest my case!

( That is of course, unless you count all of us dropping our drawers at once and bending over in a certain direction as being the "Full Moon" !!!!.... what was that Monty Python line? "I Fart in your general direction?" Not at you Mike, you know what I mean...oh well, puerile commentary time over fo now! Hepcat in drag lives! )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:08 - ID#197184)
Glenn: ref Armstrong buying gold
Just about every Australian newspaper known to man is carrying the story about PEI buying Charters Towers as well as Ass. Press, Dow Jones and even CNBC Asia did a 20 minute show on it. Apparently Armstrong is said to be lecturing throughtout Europe and was not available for personal comment. Rumour is he has been looking around at other companies according to a few brokers. Don't know if they are trying to talk up gold shares using his name or not. All I know is when Armstrong is bearish I listen. If he is starting to get bullish short-term, that is a significant event.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:09 - ID#432112)
Gold flat like a pancake....
Somebody tell me July will be better!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:10 - ID#227168)
That Skunk Smell Is Always Around
Farhead If you are a Jew then you must have been casterated, maybe they just cut off the wrong parts? When you do return to Kitco under another alias your smell will give you away --Pew

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:11 - ID#194311)
Interest free loans from this deflation...
or perhaps the Western economeisters have yet to put clever jargon label on it and require a degree to practise it.....i.e. usury free banking.

Subject: Islamic bank to spend two billion on development, foreign trade

RIYADH, June 29 ( AFP ) - Islamic Development Bank ( IDB ) has
allocated more than two billion dollars to fund development projects
and foreign trade this Islamic year, the Saudi news agency SPA
reported Monday.
It said a third of the amount for 1419, the Islamic year running
from April 1998 to April 1999, would be spent in the 52 member
states of IDB, which was set up in 1973 by the Saudi-based
Organisation of the Islamic Conference.
Twenty-five percent of the total budget will be used for
transport and communications, 25 percent for public utilities, 20
percent for agricultural projects, 17 percent for social services
and 11 percent for industry.
The bank based in the Saudi Red Sea city of Jeddah also plans to
grant a total of 8.4 million dollars for education, health and
cultural projects in Islamic communities of non-member states.
Four million dollars will go to the bank's scholarship
programmes for non-member states.
IDB operates through leasing and profit-sharing schemes,
interest-free loans and technical assistance, all governed by
Islamic sharia law.
The bank last year fully or partially financed 54 development
projects and 29 technical assistance projects. Its main contributors
are Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran and Libya.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:12 - ID#340302) Liberace or LGiBBerish or whatever he calls himself.
Now you're safe back home, having spent a full day running and fetching water for Mr. Schwartz.

Must be real tired after moving that fat ass of yours around Loral all day.

Time to get out all your grubby silver coins and count em all, right?



(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:13 - ID#263379)
@ RJ...How bout THIS Platinum story? I'm buying more soon....
Monday June 29, 7:35 am Eastern Time

Company Press Release

Clean Diesel Technologies Receives Broad-Based U.S. Patent for Platinum Group Metals as Diesel, Gasoline Additives

STAMFORD, Conn.-- ( BUSINESS WIRE ) --June 29, 1998--Clean Diesel Technologies Inc. ( Nasdaq: CDTIC - news ) Monday announced that it has been granted U.S. Patent 5,749,928 for its innovation in the use of platinum group metals as additives to gasoline or diesel fuel.

CDT and its attorneys consider the patent broad-based in its protection of the company's proprietary platinum-based additive technologies. The company's Platinum Plus ( R ) bimetallic additive and other formulations have been shown in numerous laboratory and field tests to enhance the performance of diesel particulate filters or catalytic converters for gasoline-powered vehicles.

CDT Chief Operating Officer James Valentine commented, ``We believe this fundamental patent will aid us significantly in securing our proprietary position in providing advanced catalyst and fuel additive technologies to the marketplace.''

Valentine said the company's platinum fuel additives are already in European commercial applications for improving and rejuvenating aged catalytic converters, and commercial interest is growing worldwide in the use of bimetallic platinum-based fuel additive technology for diesel particulate filters and oxidation catalysts.

``In the U.S.,'' he continued, ``plans by various states and the EPA to encourage the use of emission reduction technologies on existing heavy-duty diesels could expand applications later this year for use of our additive alone, and in conjunction with oxidizers and filters.''

Clean Diesel Technologies is a development-stage company with patent-protected products that reduce emissions from diesel engines while simultaneously improving fuel economy and power. R&D efforts and products are grouped into two categories: Platinum Fuel Catalysts and NOx Reduction Systems. Platinum Plus is a registered trademark of Clean Diesel Technologies Inc.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:15 - ID#432112)
kiwi - Islamic loans
I heard that interest is shunned by the Koran. Is this true?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:17 - ID#346308)
Farfel .Farfel Farfel,
It's time to call Nick, to book your place downunder at the ostrich farm
for the lates tourist attraction, with your head where it belongs,with
your licence plate prominently displayed IDCIBM. GET OUT OF YOUR HEAD AND INTO YOUR BODY,MAN!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:17 - ID#263379)
@ Fartful..."Fat Ass?"
The only thing "fat" in my life, is my 401K account, having bought a lot of Loral stock at $7.00 when it was issued....and seeing it rise to 400% or so of that price in 3 years time.

Well, that and the discretionary investment accounts on the side.......

Hmmm, come to think of it, time to toss some "fat" steaks on the Barbecue and sip a brew, whilst contemplatingt the sad spectacle of someone's complete mental breeakdown...embarrasingly and publicy displayed.

I'm starting to worry about you FartFul, you SURE you don't need immediate intervention and perhaps a 72 hour hold in an institution?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:18 - ID#340302) you're saying all Jews smell??
Why don't you and Janes get together and burn down a synagogue?

Date: Mon Jun 29 1998 20:10
Poorboys ( That Skunk Smell Is Always Around ) ID#227168:
Farhead If you are a Jew then you must have been casterated, maybe they just cut off the wrong parts? When
you do return to Kitco under another alias your smell will give you away --Pew

I just hope the Jewish Defence League finds out where you live, you little rotter, and then they should castrate your crackhead ass.


(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:18 - ID#434108)
what we put our attention on, is what we get (more of)
Do we want more heat, or more light...?
Are we so privately, internally wounded...
that we have to 'attack others'....
...that we have to be so invested in "being right"...
that we must wrong ourselves...

and everyone ....with whom we wish to discourse & engage with..
upon this singular, valued discussion-board named as 'kitco'...?

what bloated egoes among us - full of sound & fury...signifying nothing.....
would descecrate & jeopardize ....

this avenue of liberty ...

this electronic medium and vibrating place ....

where the free exchange of ideas...

amongst the devoted students of the inherent freedom ...
and equality ....
of gold money...

might, otherwise,
share our opinions, ideas, and ideals...
with one another...

who among us
is so self-infatuated
so self-absorbed
so in need of help ( -please find it elsewhere )

as to mar this magnificent opportunity...

At the subjugation and sacrifice of anything decent,
considerate, tolerant, patient, humble, understanding, interesting, enlightening..........

must the few who are "out-of-balance"...
among us,
insist on ranting & raving their way
into self-righteous impact on the rest of us.....

( no wonder our civilization is not grounded in gold-based money )

Bully Beef
(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:18 - ID#260119)
Farfel ... Personally I have always enjoyed your posts. I like your intellect and sense
of humour. I'll miss your posts if they pull the plug on you. I'm starting to see a trend develop. It is almost like some kind of Kitco burnout. Will I find myself jousting with others here in a few months? I hope not. For some reason I think of a line from Christopher Marlowe's Faust which I can't quote from memory and I don't have my copy here but goes something like this... "Hail Faust ( or some other character ) it you... you that made 'I prove it thus' ( only in latin ) ring in the halls of Wittenberg ( or some University in Germany where all the graduates had to have a scar on their face from a sharpe sword fight ) ?"

Can anyone help me out on that quote? Everytime I move, all my classics end up in the basement and all the science fiction ends up on the shelves.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:19 - ID#432112)
All - Please review Kitco's Netiquette Guidelines

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:20 - ID#227168)
Something Gold Beagle should learn
Kitco Rating up 90% ---Good job boys Everybody likes a good dirty fight.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:22 - ID#34857)
Poorboys (Something Gold Beagle should learn)
Nah, too many vronsky infomercials here already.


(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:22 - ID#317193)
My cyber friend...I care not what you post I only care for you. Got some grain contracts I can sell cheap...limit down. : )


(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:22 - ID#72316)
@ All & F*
The market was truly a bore today,, F*'s rantings have made me grin for the last 2 hours..

@F*,, Lest you forget that we beat you in a war, and if it pleases us we may let you become the eleventh province...


(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:24 - ID#263379)
@ CoolJing
Come now, you made that stuff up! I never access that particular site, was that for real? If so, it's the best laugh I had all day.....

( Is it not bettah to understand the question...than to seek the answer Grasshappah? )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:25 - ID#269320)
to whom it may concern...
some of u boys better get back on ur Prosac again! This is a place to talk money, gold and profits. We've all heard enough of ur childish bullshit.....

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:26 - ID#227168)
Oh Candy Man --Run a nose bleed ?
Farout They know I eat Jewish Candies everyday and I also support there sugar plants that use slave labor Oh My did I say that?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:27 - ID#263379)
@ Henry, Poorboys....Vronsky's site
I've always wanted to see him run a good all out, knock down, dragged out, no holds barred debate between Ted Butler and Martin Armstrong re Silver.... now THAT would be worth reading!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:27 - ID#34857)
DUC (to whom it may concern...)
Hey DUC, that's "bullsh*t". We do have standards, you know?

HenryD : )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:28 - ID#432112)
Boring! See Ya!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:29 - ID#248180)
@ Goldnbones - "Canaccord Daily Letter" - 12:58
Goldnbones- Many Thanks for your post. Very interesting and the post of the day. It is difficult sorting the good posts from all the rubbish today. Cheers

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:29 - ID#340302)
@BULLY BEEF...I expect the plug to be pulled......
...but I shall survive.

Tired of hearing about LGiBBerish's 400% return on stocks, the same boring story told over and over again.

Tired of Pussboys three sentence incoherent posts dissing gold and various forum members, the same old, same old.

Tired of PissPee lauding his brainy son, leaving us all to wonder how the son got all the smarts and father was left with less than zero.

Tired of the usual Kitco Nazis constant name-calling, browbeating anybody who believes in the yellow metals value.

The Nazis have won...not just the gold market but the entire country. False prosperity while the Nazis raise the volume on their cheers.

It doesn't matter if I'm thrown of Kitco because I no longer give a damn about gold or silver or anything so banal.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:29 - ID#263379)
@ Tyoung
Be a man and admit's "ASB" !!! ( hehe )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:30 - ID#411331)
@GoldenBoy and Panda:
GoldenBoy: Earlier today, someone posted that there was some
indication of intervention to support the yen as we are
at the critical 142/dollar which brought about the support
one week ago. It is more than a wish however, because if
Japan suffers a financial meltdown, she is big enough to
precipitate a cascade of similar failures in Asia, South
America, Russia, and eventually Europe and North America.
It is illogical and apolitical for the Americans to allow
this to happen. They got the world into this mess, it is
now for them to get us all out.

Panda: Don't worry, I don't worship the stuff. I have mined
it, worked it in jewellery, hoarded it, and invested in it.
But I still consider it the beast that kills paper tigers.
Rising gold is a symptom of a sick financial system, ( and so
is extremely depressed gold prices ) . It is the beast that
we all try to ride, but judging from the temper of this forum
today, few of us actually like the stuff.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:30 - ID#194311)
drips of a sweet vintage from the grapevine...
gold will float with Goldman.

Patience is a virtue.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:31 - ID#34857)
Liberty (@ Henry, Poorboys....Vronsky's site)
Where would he hold such a debate, Liberty? One more graphic on that page and I'm afraid it'll implode.

HenryD ( imploding on myself right now. )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:33 - ID#263379)
@ "Jerry Springer" lives at Kitco
Well, not wanting to be called the "Pot which called the Kettle black"...I'll refrain from any lecturing, but since I prefer a good "Firing Line" esqe type discourse, over the Jerry Springeresque antics of FartFul in full mental breakdown, I'll retire to dine, and check back later!

( Go Platinum, go Silver, COMEX inventory a droppin I say! )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:34 - ID#433143)
Farfel! Farfel! farfel! farfel!
( jerry! jerry! jerry! jerry! )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:34 - ID#317193)
I love it when a plan comes together....
Can someone tell me what the plan is...was...may be...please.

Anybody want to post gold & PM things? Grains? Sex? Health? Nevermind!


(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:37 - ID#34857)
Today, I bought Gold.
I done my duty ... good night.

HenryD ( clink, clink, clink. )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:40 - ID#227238)
Kiwi: Really enjoyed the Prof. Stewart thing. ..... Fib connections everywhere. Eh? Now if we could only divine the gold market in a sunflower head, we'd be in business. ..... Until then, it's merely ASB.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:40 - ID#210235)
@It's hard to be heard above all the yelling,
so with your forebearance, I am reposting. ( Thanks, Earl ) .

Date: Mon Jun 29 1998 17:19

Prometheus ( @Difficult times ) ID#210235:


While early in the inflation, wages kept pace with prices, gradually wages slipped, to an

astonishing 40% decrease in buying power from their previous norms.

The 10% wealthiest folks keeps amassing ever higher percentages of the world's assets,

from 33 to 48% in a hundred years. The poorest 20% share of the wealth slips from 1.7% to

0. Homelessness and poverty are the lot of many.

Fiscal imbalances between public income and expenditures resulted in deep government debt.

Public deficits grew out of control.

As the next stage began, prices stopped their steady rise. Now wild price swings of

increasing amplitude occurred. Inequality increased at a rapid rate. Public deficits surged

higher. Economies became dangerously vulnerable to stresses.

Governments manipulated their coinage with an increasingly heavy hand, devaluing or

revaluing their currencies. Governments imposed export controls to keep subjects from

getting their money out the country and into safer currencies.

Both great and small states teetered on the edge of bankruptcy. They struggled to survive by

borrowing heavily at ruinous rates of interest and by debasing their moeny, introducing

powerful instabilities into the price system.

More workers competed for fewer jobs and wages lagged behind price increases.

The banking boom came to an end; While one of the world's largest banks struggled over a

decade after its loans went sour to avoid collapse, many other banks greedily made loans to

foreign nations. By necessity, they had to continue making ever larger and larger loans to

keep defaults at bay. Gradually the loans and the banks collapsed, with many smaller ones

going under before the greatest finally folded.

Exchange rates became highly unstable, creating dislocations in trade.

Oh, yeah. The late 13th and early 14th centuries were really rough. You should see what

happened next . . . . another day.

paraphrased and condensed from THE GREAT WAVE by David Hackett Fischer

Oxford University Press, 1996.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:40 - ID#433143)
Henry: maybe farfel should take note and remember his chant?
as for me, i am adding another half kilo to my position of my PHYSICAL horde.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:41 - ID#317193) my @ss
Come now, I already capitulated some time ago. Yes? : ) It is Change will come. I just wish to heck I knew when.

Gone to read ANOTHER and contemplate currency crisiseses or whatever.

Our silver needs some viagra.Yes?


(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:42 - ID#227238)
Prometheus: Must leave for awhile. I assume the next chapter will be posted in the interim. ...... {:- )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:44 - ID#227168)
The Upside down site
I Love Vronskys Site Yes I admit I made a small fortune Red beans and rice for everybody but my hard disk space is very limited but his site has all the 00000001 The great negative indicators Like Farthead.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:45 - ID#39857)
Nothing seems to change
"China's response to the West. A documentary survey 1839-1923"
Ssu-Yu Teng & J. K. Fairbank.
Chapter 1.
Since China is the largest unitary mass of humanity, with the oldest
continuous history, its overrunning by the West in the past century was
bound to create a continuing and violent intellectual revolution, the
end of which we have not yet seen. The traditional system of tribute relations between the ancient Chinese empire and the "outside barbarians," who had formed the rest of China's known world, came to an
end with the Anglo-Chinese treaty of Nanking in 1842. For a full century
after 1842, China remained subject to a system of intermational relations
characterised by the "unequal treaties" established by the Western powers, beginning with the treaty of Nanking, and not formally abolished until 1943...............
The ancient Chinese society, which had grown and developed through four millenia as the worlds most populous and in many ways most highly cultured state, has been remade within a few score years. Rapid change
is nothing new to Westerners, but the rate of social change in modern China has exceeded anything we can imagine for it has include the collapse of old ways and the growth of new ways on a scale and at a tempo unprecedented in history.
China might well adapt to the new millennium faster than the West.
re human rights. Kent, crack, slavery, SEA currency destruction,
owe the world more than any other nation. Let off more bombs, consumed
more of the Earths wealth, created a gun culture, killed heaps of foreigners in foreign waters, created false economy. Makes you laugh
does'nt it. The Klintonistas lecturing China on human rights. HUH.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:45 - ID#248180)
To ALL & Especially the Posters that are Wild with Anger
In addition to the wise words by Sir John Templeton "Rules For Being a Human" I submit "A Prayer for Myself" the author is unknown to me.

Lord, keep me from the habit of thinking I must say something on every subject and on every occasion.

Release me from craving to straighten out everbody's affairs.

Keep my mind free from the recital of endless details- give me wings to get to the point.

I ask for the grace enough to listen to the tales of other's pains. Help me to endure them with patience. But seal my lips on my own aches and pains - they are increasing and my love of rehearsing them is becoming sweeter as the years go by.

Teach me the glorious lesson that occasionally it is possible that I may be mistaken.

Keep me reasonably sweet; I do not want to be a saint - some of them are so hard to live with - but a sour old person is one of the crowning works of the devil.

Give me the ability to see good things in unexpected places and talents in unexpected people. And give me, O'Lord, the grace to tell them so.

Make me thoughtful, but not moody; helpful, but not bossy. With my vast store of wisdom, it seems a pity not to use it all - but Thou knowest, Lord, that I want a few friends at the end.

I am blessed and I wish to share that with all. Cheers to all I am off for the next 10 hours.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:48 - ID#317193)
Why is gold up a buck?....must be a typo
(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:49 - ID#434108)
Junior's 20:45, & Farfel.......& a miracle........
Junior, thank-you.
Farfel, have you written any novels, screen-plays, etc.?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:51 - ID#288369)
Posters are just people. You well know. And some people need to play the dominant role to gain their self fulfillment. Oh, the wonders of the spotlight! They must be the loudest, the smartest, the best...the first with the answer. This is weakness, and I fight this weakness everyday.

You have proven that you will not be dominated. However, essentially all can still be tricked by those who seek to establish dominance. The safest posture to avoid this injury is to maintain silence and absence. Ignore and go about your work.

However, we must not ignore our own inner need for attention....we must completely abolish it. Live each moment without is also our great weakness. In doing so, you will have more respect than you need.

My father taught me early to "put on my humble-inquirer coat, and keep it on". I know now that I wear this coat because I am ignorant.

Let's play ball together.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:52 - ID#194311)
Prometheus ...choice reference.
Does it say what happened to gold or silver during this period or after the collapse?.....i truly believe we are going into the collapse right now. ( some persons already collapsed rather personally ) .

You can see it on the faces of the politicians, they just haven't a clue what's happening and still they spout off, "it's alright, everything's going to be alright..".
One country after another growth turns into recession, figures constantly being revised. Quite likely this will happen more rapidly than in 13th century with the quicker flow of information, speedier computerised calculations of how bad things have got feeding directly into the marketplace.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:53 - ID#248180)
Bart - Thank You Again For This Excellent Site. Inspite of the Occasional Ramping and Raving of a
few. Great Site.

Re: ANOTHER - An interesting post by ANOTHER on the USA Gold Site.

I'm off for now.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:53 - ID#401460)

Thank You


(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:54 - ID#227168)
Another Clinton Wacko
Farthead Disappeared The great Jewish Freedom Fighter Nothing but a phooey kite So be It.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:55 - ID#342416)
Prayer for LGB
LGB: Please pay attention to Junior at 20:45
Especially the first 2 lines.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:57 - ID#227108)
Yen Spike Up Dollar Down
Hey, you goldbugs stop fighting you might make a buck tonight!!!

Good Luck

(Mon Jun 29 1998 20:58 - ID#340302) do you know if I am even Jewish?
You ignorant little ghettobaby. Now you call me a "kite?"

So you call all Jews "kites" do you?

Very nice, you wretched little syphillis scab.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:00 - ID#187109)

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:00 - ID#401460)
Here is your Buck

Gold ( CMX )


(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:01 - ID#340302)
@LGiBBERish aka LIBERACE...PORKY lives here at Kitco....
...and at Loral. I hear you have the biggest desk at Loral and certainly the biggest chair ( to seat your fat ass!! ) .

Hey, can you say, "Snork, snork, snork, sooey, sooey?"



(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:02 - ID#227168)
Sometimes the dead know better --Ummmmmmmmm
STUDIO.R Instead of protecting maniacs better you listen to some Touch the sky  Hendrix Find out why Gold is dead Maybe a summer rally so what PERIOD.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:03 - ID#317193)

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:05 - ID#317193)
F*...don't tell anyone but...
Gold is not dead...


(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:06 - ID#194311)
EB wiv us again......jump right on in
the water's fine,
and so's the wine.

How high can we get tonight....


(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:09 - ID#220325)
It is not my intention to take sides nor do I own any of the other contributors. I have never critized you specifically or any other member of this forum. I would just like to see a certain amount of decorum here.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:10 - ID#39857)
checked your fleur

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:11 - ID#374204)
Just got home from work
There's nothing like a relaxing lurk at Kitco to unwind.

Geez people! The news just showed some mainland Chinese risking
personal liberty for the gift of publicly expressing an opinion.

Ain't it enough to be able to do so?

Intelligently attacking an idea is usually interesting-for us all.
If you want to attack a person, grab your weapon and hit the streets

It is out of place here.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:13 - ID#220325)
goldfevr WELL SPOKEN
Congratulations on your treatise. I don't know who could have said it better?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:14 - ID#290281)
Richard Mayberry's Early Warning Report
We may be into a global deflation that could drive gold below $200. I think that in the long run today's $291 gold price will prove to be a great bargain, but a temporary drop to less than $200 remains possible. Asia's deflation is getting nasty.
Somewhere in the next decade I expect to see gold at somewhere between $2000 and $5000.
As things stand now, I think that in the next 24 months the world faces:
The Y2K computer shut down
A Y2k recession
A stock market crash
A likely Y2K oil war in the Persian Gulf
A likely nuclear shoot-out between India and Pakistan
More economic trouble in east Europe and Asia
Gold has been valuable for 6,000 years. Gold is good insurance. Like any other insurance, buy it and hope you never need it.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:17 - ID#230244)
Headline from the July issue of Stock Pickers Digest.The news letter published by Pat McKeough.TSE IMG cost $3.55 cnd or $2.45 U.S.

Total cash cost of gold per ounce $124.00. Pat for the first time this year sees gold's next move Up. Good news for your info.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:19 - ID#202118)
@overnight gold
GCQ8 up to 297...any reason?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:19 - ID#227168)
Tiny Dicks for Tiny People
Farhead Any relation to the Mossad Doubt it! Little wineburgers like you can never be accepted Take your beenie and go home ---You Phooey Internet squabbler ---Buy a tent and live with cloudman.

The Hatt
(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:20 - ID#294232)
yen up 1.85 in the last 25min!
And you guessed it Gold up $1.85.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:22 - ID#342416)
C'mon Farfel,straighten up. I dont always agree with you, but I think
your posts are well detailed and are always a good read. I would hate
to lose you. You have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:23 - ID#194311)
joining the dots...
Internationalize yen: Japan bus. chief

TOKYO, June 29 ( UPI ) -- Takashi Imai, chairman of Japan's powerful
Federation of Economic Organizations ( Keidanren ) says the
internationalization of the yen is necessary to prevent excessive
reliance on the dollar.
Speaking the Foreign Correspondents Club of Japan, Imai cited an over
dependency on the dollar as one of the causs of the Asian economic
Imai said, ``We have to wipe out the international obstacles for the
internationalization of the yen.''
He suggested that in the short term financing market the circulation
of the yen should be made easier for foreign investors.
Proposing foreign exchange regulations in Japan should be further
eased Imai said, ``It should be made easier to use.''

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:24 - ID#401460)
Gold ( CMX )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:27 - ID#290281)
Jack Wheeler's Strategic Intelligence
The Y2K Millenial bug will hit private business with varying degrees....Y2K will primarily affect government structures. It will, for example eliminate the IRS. Interviews of IRS programmers by private Y2K companies in D.C. reveal that most of the folks who are trying to fix the IRS computers have shockingly poor computer skills and don't know what they're doing. There is virtually no hope that the IRS computers will be fixed in time. The entire agency is going belly up, so that by mid-January 2000 tens of millions of American taxpayers will know that if they don't file, the IRS can't find them. Thus the Y2K crisis is unlike any other. It presents an unparalleled opportunity for the expansion of individual liberty and not federal faccism.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:28 - ID#227108)
Japan unemployment
Japan unemployment report in at 4.1% unchanged and Yamasaki says the LDP will positively consider permanent tax cuts after the July 12 elections.

Bonds and Yen believe it so far.

The end of the quarter could also be a factor...

Should be a bounce to 301...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:34 - ID#43460)
shadowfax_A you may be right, but I'm starting to believe that chaos is more likely
Here is some of deep background for my opinion that we are experiancing a rapid reduction of sanity in the world. And as you know the square root of the POG is inversely proportional to the square root of the amount of residual sanity times the square root of -1:

Cheer up guys! Its only Monday!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:35 - ID#194311)
if I was japanese ....
with a few billion yankee toilet paper squares in my stash ( 300 billion )
would not NOW be a good time to dump dollars for gold?

dollar's dear, gold's cheap....arm the torpedos kemosabi!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:40 - ID#432298)
Golds up $2.30........
Anybody have any idea why gold is up over seas? I hope this follows through tomorrow morning over here.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:42 - ID#374204)
I would like to know why-
without tedious research. Comments?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:42 - ID#93232)
I stand corrected. The other day I stated oil wouldn't go to $5 bbl, but according to revised forecasts, it may well do that:

Shadowfax, I reckon you're right. Gold may not have hit bottom yet. Maybe that's what the Japanese are waiting for.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:43 - ID#219363)
Hehe, whee!
Could it be, could it be, Armstrong's action they see ?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:44 - ID#218251)
The Dow Jones may have just completed it's last 5 waves up...Maybe
As far as the PM stocks and Gold and Silver, the incredible negative news, comments, sentiment and bailing out of PM's in mass is IMHO the most positive outlook for PM's in a very long time. I honestly feel like I'm the only one who see's how incredibly this market is right know. There is a very good possibilty that what we seeing right now is the beginning of a very significant rally in the precious metals. The Stock Market only needed 1 more 5 wave advance to be counted complete.If you look at an hourly of the Dow,it has done that. From an Elliot perspective that would be called a FAILED 5th wave because it did not make a new high. If this was the end of the bull market in stocks, this is probably how it would end................A Contrarian's view.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:46 - ID#340302)
Date: Mon Jun 29 1998 21:19
Poorboys ( Tiny Dicks for Tiny People ) ID#227168:
Farhead Any relation to the Mossad Doubt it! Little wineburgers like you can never be accepted Take your beenie and go home ---You Phooey Internet squabbler ---Buy a tent and live with cloudman.

Yes, there it is...crackhead Pussboys declaring his total hatred of Jews ( joining his transvestite drunk pal, JANES ) .

"Little wineburgers ( aka Weinburgers ) like you can never be accepted," so he says.

"Take your beenie ( aka yarmulke ) and go home," he further elucidates.

You little ball of Nazi sh*t, I will find out who you are, where you live, and I WILL deal with you, you little pile of dog excrement!!



(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:47 - ID#222235)
@Kiwi - gold and silver in 13th, 14th century Europe
Well, now, silver WAS the money back in those times. Sometimes it got nicked and had holes punched into it to debase it, filed down. Only when the inflation got real bad did gold come into play as money, after a nearly thousand year hiatus from the end of the Roman empire. Gold was often USED as money, but in what was called "mobilia". These mobilia were liquid assets of high value, such as golden objects, chalices, furs, etc.

Not to be confused with barter, BTW. More like big bills. Remember those?

When the inflation got real bad, one things rulers did was generate a 2 tier system of currency. One was used only within the realm, and forced upon the subjects. The other used between the realms was real money. Kind of like the REAL gold franc that is the basis of all the settlements at the BIS!

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Maybe tomorrow I can describe the collapse of the first wave.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:48 - ID#93232)
I don't think the feds will let go so easily. And I don't think Y2K will necessarily do in the IRS. My recollection of the act that created FEMA was that there are provisions for the collection of taxes in any national emergency. They'll just go back to pencil & paper.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:50 - ID#401460)
June 29, 1998
9:42PM New York Time

Timezone Equivalents
Change from New York close

(Mon Jun 29 1998 21:59 - ID#230244)
@ Farfel
La nuit porte conseil. A good night's sleep, will be good for you.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:04 - ID#227168)
All this time to show your SICK brain
Farthead Beware I have CIA connections People like you are a determent to the American Dream Go crawl in that Jewish Hole and eat some worm exterminate.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:16 - ID#340302)
@PUSSBOYS...and I enjoy hiring private detectives... find crackheads like you.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:16 - ID#187109)
Has anyone been noticing Platinum lately? I mean really noticing. Look for moves real soon......tomorrow even (  ) ....there is a pattern making battle between bull&bear right now........using imagination I see a declining wedgie.........this is bullish.......and is holding up well while comparing it to a 'distant-cousin' en ( seems reluctant to go farther down ) .... ( further or farther? ) ......set w/ some recent funnymentals and *BAM* ( thanks Emiril ) and throw in some garlic and you got yerself a rallie........EH!


Yes, gold has made a pattern too and will take a nice jump ( up )


Yes.......why not go out on a limb and say ~~~~~~



Earl......what does todays candlestick represent in azucar?.....check this out

type in - contract: sbv8 - Type: candle - Size: ( I like Med ) Med

Whats the 'hollow' center w/ sticks on both ends mean?? ( kinda looks like a firecracker.....will it explode ;- ) ( ? ) Waddya call it and is it bearish or bullish............ ( this is not a test but merely a question ) I am interested in candlestick study......uh huh.

I think F* is Hepster......uh huh. I am printing ALL of today's posts and sending them to Ted....he will get a kick out of 'em...........this, this kitco......... spell......p.e.n.n.a.n.t.f.o.r.m.a.t.i.o.n.o.h.m.y.!.


I'll be willing to bet that if ya' all go to your gold-stock-charts that you will find patterns too..........uh huh.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:18 - ID#17796)
Tantalus...your guess is as good as mine...but
Currency crisis? Yen stronger.


Mike Stewart
(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:19 - ID#270253)
Posting Quality
Try to maintain high standards. Everything works better that way.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:19 - ID#432157)
I don't believe it GOLD is up can this be true .

Still waiting for that e-mail Poorboys ( CRN )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:20 - ID#218251)
kapex (The Dow Jones may have just completed it's last 5 waves up...Maybe) ID#218251:
kapex ( The Dow Jones may have just completed it's last 5 waves up...Maybe ) ID#218251:
Copyright  1998 kapex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As far as the PM stocks and Gold and Silver, the incredible negative news, comments, sentiment and bailing out of PM's in
mass is IMHO the most positive outlook for PM's in a very long time. I honestly feel like I'm the only one who see's how
incredibly bullish this market is right know. There is a very good possibilty that what we seeing, right now, is the beginning of a very
significant rally in the precious metals. The Stock Market only needed 1 more 5 wave advance to be counted as complete. If
you look at an hourly of the Dow,it has done that. From an Elliot perspective that would be called a FAILED 5th wave
because it did not make a new high. If this was the end of the bull market in stocks, this is probably how it would
end................A Contrarian's view.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:21 - ID#190411)
Thanks to Earl-
for his postings of this weekend.

I wanted to reply at the time about your thoughtful and eloquently expressed post about the "psychology" of honest money people.

The time wasn't right, though. Blooper would have flipped out with the ERLE thanking Earl. Not to mention the non-existent Earle.

I wonder why he gets annoyed when he is referred to as "bloomer"?

Although, he is funny at times with his absurd spelling. I rather like him.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:22 - ID#187109)
PATTERNS ANYONE? This is the reason for the bounce tonight
buy the breakout........ohmy! watch this move begin...


the charts never lie.....eventually...............

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:23 - ID#433143)
Farfel: empty threats..
I doubt you could DNS someones address to even come close to finding someone, as even if you could get that far, doing an whois, and hacking an isp and getting into their logs, and believe it or not those logs do contain that damn caller id info, and your isp does have all your personal info in user files. So quit actin like a damn 15 yr old it not to smart.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:23 - ID#210235)
@Anyone who is watching for changes in global stability
will want to read this Global Intelligence Report:

BBML - hope the dust has cleared by the time I get back!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:23 - ID#252150)
Farfetched@You are truly a pathetic excuse for a human being
Your recent posts have revealed you to be totally devoid of honesty, integrity,imagination & humour.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:24 - ID#300202)
cybersex/cyberfights-same thang-zilcho
Back to quality posters. Escaping battle of the egos.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:27 - ID#432157)
Stop the bickering get back to basics----PLEASE

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:27 - ID#187109)
this is perhaps the start of ANOTHER leg up with your Silver? It was just a longer battled waged............... ( ? )
$5.55 and then $5.85 to fill the gaps?
stranger things could happen....... fill the gap in my stomach

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:27 - ID#43460)
E.B. re PGM's See my 18:13 post for the URL
RJ was very favorable on his weekly comment on his Monex site.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:27 - ID#17796)
BEWARE...I have connections...B*E*E*R*
As in beer connections...belch and farts. Oh my...GO GOLD. Did I say that? Don't do that to often.

Away to read ANOTHER on currency crisisiseses and that stuff. F*...point made and made and friend.

You and I may be right for two minutes a day. Away to await my two minute life. Yes?


(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:30 - ID#190411)
Sure, I'd like to read a good debate here
about silver. - There are so many wild claims about the short position in Ag, that if true,

would be a tidy moneymaker for the holders of physical.

I am dubious, even though I have a bit of it myself.

Let's get the knowledgeable ones together, poke 'em with a sharp stick, and let 'em have at it.

-Better than the off topic drivel of late.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:31 - ID#340302)
@JANES...but at least I'm sober...
...and I know the real definition of stagflation...

...and I'm not stealing my butch wife's booze late at night and getting plastered as a skunk...

...and I'm not boring the world ad nauseum with nonsense tales about Japan learned at the foot of my Japanese daughter-in-law...

...and I'm not an idiot subscriber to the existence of "the Jew Boys Club"

You get the picture, dear Janes? Now go and join Pussboys and you two girls can go burn down a synagogue tonight ( and make anti-semitic love against the flames ) . Hopefully, I'll be there to push you in the flames.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:32 - ID#43349)
The good news that spot gold is on the move, up to 250.

The bad news ( for me ) is that I just checked the weather radar and the grandaddy of thunderstorms with a history of tornados on the ground and clod tops over 65,000 feet is headed directly toward me and shoud get here in about an hour.

This is going to be an exciting night...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:33 - ID#227168)
Leave and let peace be --Rotten scoundrel
Farhead The deadhead ---Pick your brains off the floor Grab that Beanie and suck to the American Establishment ---You rotten SapsuckerNothing but a slime worm that sucks on Gold lovers and pretends to be bullish Hell is waiting for sapsuckers

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:36 - ID#30116)
OK, Who kicked gold?
Alright, fess up! Who kicked gold? And whoever it was... kick it a little harder, please! We need one MEAN junk yard dog attitude on the part of the yellow metal...........

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:36 - ID#340302) leave, little sapsucker... and your ilk who have feasted on the frustration of goldbugs.

YOU LEAVE and peace will reign.

Grab your crack and food stamps and run fast as you can!



(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:37 - ID#432157)
My GOD do you see GOLD We have a full blowen Rally --HaHa

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:37 - ID#373284)
old things eh...lept on the Lacrosse Field today,...tookl their prized goalie in two
moves...and then raped their best defenseman...40 and movin...adrenal

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:40 - ID#411331)
@ strat: The Y2K problem will not destroy the IRS. They will
resort to a one line tax form called the flat rate tax.
This has always been a fair and progressive system since
everybody pays. There can be few loopholes beyond a basic
deduction. The powers that be hate it! The flat rate
forces all those rich corporations to finally pay their
share of the tax load, and the net effect is the taxes
of the little guy ( you and me ) drop. I pay 35-37%.
The flat rate would likely drop me to 20-25%

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:41 - ID#30116)
Do you know where your mutual fund money is going? Hopefully, not in to this guys pocket..

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:43 - ID#190411)
Does anyone know whether the euro's lifted the VAT on investment gold?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:44 - ID#30116)
Bubba sure does take a lot of medications...

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:45 - ID#290281)
I agree, the gov't will not go down without a fight and they are preparing for that fight now. Fema and the military, what's left of it here, are in training for civil unrest and have been for the past year.
As far as the IRS is concerned, Y2K will not be kind to them and as a branch of gov't will cease to exist. They have spent 5 billion dollars on new computer technology and it is in shambles. I don't think there are enough pencils in DC or enough people that know how to use them to bail out the IRS. Get ready for some financial freedom.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:45 - ID#411331)
@ all: I should take a bow. Two hours ago, I posted that
there would be a currency intervention to support the yen, and
soon. It happened and gold is up over $2. ( I didn't think it would
be this soon however ) Now if I could only be this accurate picking
share price bottoms.........

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:46 - ID#219363)
... but he doesn't inhale them.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:49 - ID#219363)
@rhody and panda
rhody - congrats, i hadn't seen that coming. any news pointers ?

panda - my @budda was meant for your bubba post.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:50 - ID#190411)
There are those that say, including his brother, that his red nose and watery eyes can be attributed to a white powder, not related in any way to gold dust. I do not know whether this has any basis in fact.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:53 - ID#210114)
Dumb and Dumber
Have just read in "The Australian" that New Zealand is heading into recesssion because of the Asia crisis. In response, the government is going to cut spending.


That is the exact policy which turned a bad recession in the 1920s into the Great Depression of the 1930s.

Keynes lives. If you have a lack of demand recesssion, you spend money and run a deficit. Counter-cyclical policy.

God help the New Zealanders.

Live Long and Propser.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:54 - ID#190411)
rhody has been calling this for a while

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:55 - ID#227168)
Little bitty suck worm ---Catching ants in the patch -Shorting Gold -While promoting
Fartface Windmills might and could bring your ideas to form Spin Spin Spin -Sapsucker

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:55 - ID#210114)
In a Global Crisis, Call KEYNES.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:57 - ID#433143)
SAY!! I have found the key to rallies in gold!!! Whenever I play
banker or Monopoly ( tm ) with my german 20 marks and assorted coins the spot price goes up?! I just bought parkplace and Im eyeing Boardwalk! heheh Maybe I can play casino too! hehehe playing with your gold is fun too dont just look at guys!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:57 - ID#30116)
And here I thought that the U.S. yield curves were inverted...
Take a look at Englands yield curves. ( add an 'h' to he ttp )


(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:58 - ID#411331)
@ Envy: It was just a lucky guess. If I could do this consistently
it would be black helocopters in the night and time to disappear.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:59 - ID#206298)
@ rhody
Who intervened in the market Rhody. Is there a news release someplace?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 22:59 - ID#340302)
@PUSSBOYS...incoherent sapsucking crackhead...
...look back on all your posts...nothing but attacks on gold and goldbugs...and you accuse me of shorting gold???

I may not give a hoot about it anymore....but NEVER shorted it.

You're the gold-hater and the Jew-hater.

And a damn fine moron too boot.



(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:02 - ID#190411)
Spock-----smart, not dumb.
Your smart economist pals in the IMF have called for raising taxes to cover deficits, and ladleing out more gravy to the political insiders to "stimulate the economy".
It seems to have worked quite well in :Japan, Thailand, Korea, Mexico, Singapore, Mexico, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, The Eastern bloc, ad infintum.
Easier yet, where has it worked?

Gold standard wouldn't permit this.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:03 - ID#30116)
OK, that didn't work! Remove the space after the 'h tt' and 'com/'
h ttp:// @@hoXUcQUAU8wCBzzy/markets/uk.html

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:04 - ID#219363)
well, if you should start feelin lucky again, say something. : )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:08 - ID#210114)
IMF have pushed CONTRACTIONARY fiscal policy; i.e. cutting government spending. They are killing demand. The opposite of Keynes.

The gold standard is a horse and buggy monetary system in a Jumbo jet world.

Live Long and Propser.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:08 - ID#401460)
Gold ( CMX )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:10 - ID#30116)
So just how will the EMU take care of the interest rate/bond differences between EMU countries? I know it's an old question, but... inquiring minds want to know just how the answer will be spelled out? I am a luddite after all, ( something to do with gold being money and all of that.. )

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:12 - ID#210114)
Viagra Gold
POG at $US 295 and rising. Hmmmm.........

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:12 - ID#335190)
Top GM, UAW negotiators meet; GM retains medical benefits for nonstrikers

DETROIT ( AP ) -- Efforts to end two crippling strikes against General Motors Corp. intensified Monday after the chief negotiators for the automaker and the United Auto Workers met for the first time in more than two weeks.

The strikes by about 9,200 workers at the Flint, Mich., plants also have idled more than 162,700 hourly workers at 26 assembly plants and more than 100 parts plants in the United States, Canada and Mexico.

In Canada, the strike has idles more than 10,000 GM Canada employees and workers in supplier companies.

The automaker announced Monday it would continue to provide medical coverage for the nonstriking workers who have been laid off because of the strikes, but that their dental coverage would be suspended until after the dispute ends.

GM had announced last week that it was cancelling medical and dental coverage for striking workers.

The company made the cut to conserve cash, but felt the nonstriking workers should not be punished for circumstances beyond their control, spokesman Gerry Holmes said

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:13 - ID#30116)
Remember what Lord Keynes said about the long run when he was asked about it terms of his policy theory... "We are all dead in the long run..."

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:16 - ID#300202)
Rhody-At the moment u r better than cybersex. Enjoy ur 15 mins.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:20 - ID#266105)
@words wear long boots, jackboots-- C. Sandburg

Alright, who's jiggering with the gold market.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:21 - ID#252127) at 17:53

goldfever; thank you for pointing out my error.

Yes I have to check my method of expression.

I meant to use governments or those having power over the people, who in their dealings with a greedy elite result in opinions of a country.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:22 - ID#335190)
Serbs battle to retake coal mine held by Kosovo rebels

BELACEVAC, Yugoslavia ( AP ) -- Serb forces battled Monday to regain control of a Kosovo mining village captured by ethnic Albanian separatists, forcing thousands of villagers to run into the woods under a hail of bullets.

More than 8,000 people left their homes in the southern town of Belacevac and the neighboring village of Hade, as government forces steadily attacked the area from three sides.

Villagers said they expected the Serbs to take the area during the night.

Serb police snipers were posted Monday in the hills around Belacevac, firing on men running water and biscuits to rebel fighters camped in the woods surrounding the villages.

Tanks were positioned at Slatina military airport, just east of Belacevac, they said.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:23 - ID#45173)
Someone keeps trying to change the subject to gold and silver...
Meanwhile, Gollum's hunkering down for wild weather.

GOLD: Yen up, dollar down, gold up? Can it be, it's just that simple?

SILVER: the spot price hasn't moved much, but it looks like the retail price is taking off. I can take the stuff I bought in March and sell it back the great guys I bought it from for 15% more than I paid for it. Covering the markup plus 15% in four months ain't bad, and I bet it's got a looooong way to go. So I bought some more. ( Anyway, the dog told me to, so I had no choice in the matter. )

Good luck with the storms, Gollum. At those times my wife and I head to the basement with cards, a candle, and a few beers. Kinda romantic, as long as trees aren't breaking over your house ( happened to me a couple years back. )

Good luck!


(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:23 - ID#190411)
The main man is your AFR article is Krugman of MIT.
When I was a kid, MIT stood for the leading edge in science and technology. -The guys that built the telescopes and built the industrial age here in the US, and abroad.
Wastrels as Krugman will make it impossible for the rest of us to build capital to save his sorry ass, let alone capitalise businesses that will allow our employees to have a life that is better than a subsistence level.
MIT has their voodoo science department, where fools as Krugman can live off of the donated capital of those who built our industries.

If you have any access to writings of Murray Rothbard, you should give him a decent read. There are many others.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:25 - ID#43349)
Well that was exciting
Did I say 250? I meant 295. I guess wuth thunderstorms and tornados bearing down on me I got a little excited.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:29 - ID#411331)
@ BCIWN: It is too early for newscasts about the intervention.
Your guess is as good as mine. Last time it was a combination of
BOJ buying yen and the US Fed selling dollars. It gets really
interesting if it was the Japanese selling T-bills and repurchasing

Maybe it was a concerted effort by the G7?
The US dollar must come down, or the whole world tanks.

That initiates the gold bull.

Lease rates are down slightly in the one month to 1.43% but the yearly
lease rates are up slightly to 2.09% Forward rates are flat and
still high enough to encourage the gold carry trade. But I don't
think the gold carry trade will offset the impact of a declining
US dollar, and the salvation of Asia, a traditionally high gold
consuming region. This intervention is temporary, but eventually
the US will have to inflate. Go gold.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:31 - ID#190411)
And BTW, dismember the IMF. Agreed?
The US by way of the rules of the IMF has most of the power.

Live well, my pointy-eared friend. I promise not to go after your ears that bite, or was it "noone should bite pointy ears", I don't know.
Cooljing knows all, ask him.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:32 - ID#335190)
South African doctors in Canada linked to chemical warfare

EDMONTON ( CP ) -- A number of South African medical doctors and scientists now living in Canada have been linked to secret chemical and biological weapons experiments aimed at anti-apartheid leaders, CBC News reported on radio and television.

Apartheid-era army scientists described projects aimed at preserving white rule, including an effort to find a germ-warfare agent that would kill only blacks.

The scientists told the commission they were virtually brainwashed by government propaganda in the 1980s to believe South Africa was on the brink of falling to communism and black rule.

An investigative unit acting on behalf of the commission may be sent to Canada to investigate the allegations, said Moyo.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:36 - ID#266105)
@black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O; vowels; --Rimbaud

If you have any access to writings of Murray Rothbard, you should give him a decent read.
There are many others.


(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:36 - ID#93232)
Falling dollar bodes well for gold, but commodities, especially oil, are key. Rising prices for commodities marks return of gold bull.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:37 - ID#45173)
@ERLE & Spock
Krugman was on NPR this a.m. in Boston. The guy was explaining that he thought the impact of technology on the economy was overstated. This may be true, but his reasoning was this: we haven't seen any of the technologies predicted in sci fi movies in the sixties, such as video phones and computers you can talk to, like HAL from 2001, so technology has lagged behind expectations, so it hasn't contributed much to productivity. Hmmmm. We got no video phones because there's no market for them at the cost of installing sufficient network bandwidth to the home, and we got no computers to talk to because the ROI isn't there either. Why is it that economists seem to know so little about business?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:38 - ID#190411)
If you place bags of silver at the critical places on the floors of your house, it won't blow away in the storm.
Buy ANOTHER bag in threatening weather.
Six bags will keep your camel tethered securely.

Dave in CO
(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:39 - ID#229103)
@Say it ain't so
F*, you really don't give a hoot about gold? I was convinced you were using irony.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:40 - ID#252150)
Farfetched@What a great imagination--Losing an argument-just accuse
people of hating Jews. You know full well that Kiwi was the 1 that originally brought up "the Jews boys club". You quoted him & I quoted you quoting him.

I'm not even sure of what your ethnic background is, but whatever it is you are a disgrace to it. If you are a Jew, then you are the antithesis of Noam Chomsky, who has railed all his life against vermin like yourself who propagate the big lie.

Only an individual of very low breeding like yourself would resort to insulting someones wife or family because they were being shown to be a pathetic creep, & could'nt win an argument fairly with logic & detatchment. Are you an issue of the tinman & the strawman--no heart or brain.

Poor Farfetched, when you had you debacle with RJ, did you forget to wear a jockstrap. Not only are you punchdrunk, but he probably pounded your testicles right into you putrid liver. Because you have no balls now.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:41 - ID#284255)
Food for thought??? compliments Robnoels recent posts
Many people, today, think that the flows into and out of the Mutual funds are just about the only liquidity flow that exists for our market. Who taught us to believe that pile of bullshit. To survive in the markets today we need to watch the people who own the printing presses.
Yes and just who does own the printing presses, it's not just the U.S. Government..or the printing of dollars we need to be concerned with. It goes beyond that.
BANKERs and BROKERS have a way of printing more money than the government does, it's as form of legalized counterfiting The derivatives holdings of U.S. commercial banks increased 26.5% over the first nine months of 1997, up 50% from 1996. Chase Manhattan's derivatives exposure is equal to U.S. GDP and the U.S. banking system as a whole has $62 in off-balance sheet derivatives, for every dollar of equity capital and $5 for every dollar of assets on the banks' balance sheets. A loss of 1.6% on the banks' derivatives portfolio would be enough to wipe out the ENTIRE EQUITY CAPITAL OF THE U.S. BANKING SYSTEM. ( emphasis mine "The Bank for International Settlements reported in November 97 that $82.6
trillion in derivatives were held by 79 selected financial institutions in major nations at the end of 1996.
Chase Manhattan was tops on the list with $7.9 trillion or 31% of all U.S. bank derivatives.
Chase had $364 of derivatives for every dollar of equity and $22 in derivatives for every dollar in assets.
Next was J.P. Morgan with $6.2 trillion or $537 in derivatives for every dollar of equity. Seven top banks had $109 billion in equity and $1.7 trillion in assets compared to $24 trillion in derivatives, or $220 in derivatives for every dollar in equity and $14 in derivatives for every dollar in assets. They had 26% of all U.S. bank equity, 35% of U.S. bank assets and 95% of the derivatives. In the first nine months of 1997 about $190 billion of asset-backed securities were issued, up 23% from 1996. It should be noted that J.P. Morgan's final 1997 quarter reflected $54 million in derivative losses and they designated $587 million of assets as non-performing derivatives for a total possible loss of $659 million.
Now, if this is just the tip of the ice berg.
These dervatives are considerd as good as cash, as matter of fact the Dollar is now based on them, more than they are the dollar.
Louis T. McFadden and Congressional Record of June 10, 1932 -- pages 12595-12603: Mathematic proof: Federal Reserve policy immediately made it mathematically impossible for securities market not to crash.
You may never have heard of him, Will Rogers, or W.J. Bryan all of whom tried to wake the people up prior to the 29 crash.
Congressman Louis T. McFadden served twelve years as Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency. On June 10, 1932, in the midst of the Great Depression, he addressed the House of Representatives, asking for investigations of criminal conspiracy to establish the privately owned 'Federal Reserve System'. He requested impeachment of Federal officers who had violated oaths of office both in establishing and directing the Federal Reserve -- imploring Congress to investigate an incredible scope of overt criminal acts by the Federal Reserve Board and Federal Reserve Banks.
He refers to crimes including Broad, ongoing subversion of democracy; Conspiracy to remove the gold behind our currency to the foreign principals of these banks; the Financing of foreign military expansion in Germany and Japan with the very same gold removed from our public reserves [evidently, in preparation for WWII]; And conspiracy to bring about the Depression itself.
Mr. McFadden reports sufficient evidence the Federal Reserve understood beforehand the stock market would crash; and that the ramifications of the crash were such as a premeditated event designed to reap incredible gains at the cost of the people.
The further fact it was mathematically impossible the market could not crash after the Federal Reserve itself withdrew availability of further short-term credit on Black Friday, further emphasizes the probability the crash and Great Depression were in fact a continuum of a broad, long-term scheme of international financiers who set up the 'Federal Reserve' on a great, drifting sand dune of public deception.
It is mathematically impossible the securities market could have survived policy changes executed by the Federal Reserve on Black Friday. Yet to this day, the investigations courageously requested by Mr. McFadden have never been carried out by the 'Federal Reserve's' partners in government.
The magnitude of the deception, and the depth of the out and out criminal acts commited on the American people by this Government are so staggering that even today we would prefer to live in denial than to
take a good look at it.
If you want a real eye opener do a srearch on McFadden, and see if you can find a Auto Biography.
The Federal Reserve System began operation in 1914, and, true to vigilant public anticipation, accomplished both principal ownership and ruin of the economy in 1929 -- just 15 years afterward. The careless rode a wave of inflation, straight to the doom of all.
Two attempts were made to take Mr. McFadden's life, including an attempted poisoning at a Congressional cafeteria: He passed away in 1935, under circumstances which many still contend are suspicious. With his passing, 'somehow', so too passed any serious opposition to the Federal Reserve.
A few words of what he had to say Congressman Louis T. McFadden, before the House of Representatives, 1932: Mr. Chairman, at the present session of Congress we have been dealing with
emergency situations. We have been dealing with the effect of things, rather than the cause of things. In this particular discussion, I shall deal with some of the causes that lead up to these proposals.
There are underlying principles which are responsible for conditions such as we have at the present time, and I shall deal with one of these in particular which is tremendously important in the consideration that you are now giving to this bill.
Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks.
The Federal Reserve Board, a government board, has cheated the Government of the United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt. The depredations and iniquities of the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks acting together have cost this country enough money to pay the national debt several times over. This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the People of the United States; has bankrupted itself, and has practically bankrupted our government.
It has done this through the defects of the law under which it operates, through the maladministration of that law by the Federal Reserve Board, and through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it. Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators
and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lenders.
Those 12 private credit monopolies were deceitfully and disloyally foisted upon this country by bankers who came here from Europe and who repaid us for our hospitality by undermining our American institutions. Those bankers took money out of this country to finance Japan in a war against Russia. They created a reign of terror in Russia with our money in order to help that war along. They instigated the
separate peace with Germany and Russia, and thus drove a wedge between the allies in the World War.
It has been said that President Wilson was deceived by the attentions of these bankers and by the philanthropic poses they assumed. It has been said that when he discovered the manner in which he had been misled by Colonel House, he turned against that busybody, that "holy monk" of the financial empire, and showed him the door. He had the grace to do that; and in my opinion he deserves great credit for it.
President Wilson was a victim of deception. When he came to the Presidency, he had certain qualities of mind and heart which entitled him to a high place in the councils of this Nation. But there was one thing he was not, and which he never aspired to be: He was not a banker. He said that he knew very little about banking. It was, therefore, on the advice of others that the iniquitous Federal Reserve Act -- the death warrant of American Liberty -- became law in his administration.
After the downfall of the Second Bank of the United Sates in 1837, the country was warned against the dangers that might ensue if the predatory interests, after being cast out, should come back in disguise and unite themselves to the Executive, and through him acquire control of the government. That is what the predatory interests did when they came back in the livery of hypocrisy, and under false pretenses, obtained the passage of the Federal Reserve Act.
The danger that the country was warned against came upon us and is shown in the long train of horrors attendant upon the affairs of the traitorous and dishonest Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks. Look around you when you leave this chamber and you will see evidences of it on all sides. This is an era of economic misery; and for the conditions which caused that misery, the Federal Reserve Board and Federal Reserve Banks are fully liable.
This is an era of financed crime; and in the financing of crime, the Federal Reserve Board does not play the part of a disinterested spectator. Thus the menace to our prosperity, so feared by Senator Lodge, has indeed struck home. From the Atlantic to the Pacific our country has been ravaged and laid waste by the evil practices of the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks, and the interests which control them. At no time in our history has the general welfare of the people of the United States been at a lower level, or the mind of the people so filled with despair.
Recently, in one of our states, 60,000 dwelling houses and farms were brought under the hammer in a single day. [foreclosed upon and sold] According to Rev. Father Charles E. Coughlin, who has lately testified before a committee of this House, 71,000 houses and farms in Oakland County, Michigan have been sold, and their erstwhile owners disposed. Similar occurrences have probably taken place in every county in the United States. The people who have thus been driven out are the wastage of the Federal Reserve Act.
They are the victims of the dishonest and unscrupulous Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks. Their children are the new slaves of the auction block in the revival here of the institution of human slavery. In 1913, before the Senate Banking and Currency Committee, Mr. Alexander Lassen
made the following statement: "But the whole scheme of the Federal Reserve Bank, with its commercial
paper basis, is an impractical, cumbersome machinery -- is simply a cover to find a way to secure the privilege of issuing money and to evade payment of as much tax upon the circulation as possible -- and then to control the issue, and maintain instead of reduce, interest rates. "It is a system that, if inaugurated, will prove to the advantage of the few, and the detriment of the people of the United States.
A few days before the Federal Reserve Act was passed, Sen. Elihu Root denounced the Federal Reserve Bill as an outrage on our liberties; and made the following prediction:
"Long before we wake up from our dreams of prosperity through an inflated currency, our gold will have vanished, and no rate of interest will tempt it to return.
If ever a prophecy came true, that one did. It was impossible however, for those luminous and instructed thinkers to control the course of events. On December 23, 1913 [in the absence of critical legislators], the Federal Reserve Bill became law; and that night Colonel House wrote to his hidden master in Wall Street.
" We all know that an entirely perfect bill, satisfactory to everybody, would have been an impossibility; and I feel quite certain that fair men will admit that unless the President had stood as firm as he did, we should
likely have had no legislation at all. "The bill is a good one in many respects -- anyhow good enough to start with... and to let experience teach us in what direction it needs perfection, which in due time we shall then get. In any event, you have personally good reason to be gratified with what has been accomplished.
The words, "unless the President had stood firm as he did, we should likely have had no legislation at all," were a gentle reminder that it was Colonel House, himself, the "holy money monk," who had kept the President firm.
The Federal Reserve Act became law the day before Christmas Eve in the year 1913. And shortly afterwards, the German international bankers, Kuhn, Loeb & Co., sent one of their partners here to run it.
In 1913, when the Federal Reserve Bill was submitted to the Democratic caucus, there was a discussion in regard to the form the proposed paper currency should take.
When the provision for the issuance of Federal Reserve Notes was placed before President Wilson, he approved of it. But other Democrats were more mindful of Democratic principles; and a great protest greeted the plan. Foremost amongst those who denounced it was William Jennings Bryan, the Secretary of State. Bryan wished to have the Federal Reserve Notes issued as government obligations.
Before the Senate Banking and Currency Committee, while the Federal Reserve Bill was under discussion, Mr. Crozier, of Cincinnati, said: "In other words, the imperial power of elasticity of the public currency is
wielded exclusively by these central corporations owned by the privet banks. This is a life and death power over ALL local banks AND ALL BUSINESS. It can be used to create or destroy prosperity, to ward off or cause stringencies or panics.
By making money artificially scarce, interest rates throughout the country can be arbitrarily raised -- and the bank tax on all business, and cost of living, increased for the profit of the banks owning these regional, central banks -- and without the slightest benefit to the people.
These 12 corporations together cover the whole country, and monopolize and use for private gain EVERY dollar of the public currency -- and all
public revenues of the United States. NOT A DOLLAR can be put into circulation among the people, by their government, without the consent of, AND ON TERMS FIXED BY, these 12 private money trusts.
Well I could go on , but you got the idea, calling The Federal Reserve "federal" is really misnomer as it is not a government body, but a franchise that was granted to some select privet bankers, most of them foreign to regulate our money for us. The Country was sold and tricked out of it's sovernty. GreenSpan is now the holy money monk. You may be well off today but you can be poor as dirt any time they want to bring the hammer down, and they will if we don't dance to the tune they want us too.
Mean while they have created a money of their own, called dervitives and have based our dollar on their inventions. There are dervitives on beans to be grown in South America, 10 years from doesn't matter that the seeds have not been grown yet. These none existing beans of the future are not only traded like dollars, they are 22 times more valuable than the dollar. If a Cocaine grower in Columbia wishes to send a cargo of Cocaine to the United States, he can draw his bill against the purchasing drug dealer for some none existing futures in coffee but in dollars; and after the drug dealer has accepted it by writing his name across the face of it, the Cocaine grower can send that bill to the nefarious open discount market in New York City, where the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks will buy
it and use it as collateral for a new issue of Federal Reserve Notes.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:42 - ID#335190)
Fishermen threaten to blockade torpedo range

VICTORIA ( CP ) -- Angry British Columbia commercial fishermen threatened Monday to blockade a Canada-United States torpedo testing range on Vancouver Island.

"It might be a little bit difficult to have those tests," said John Radosevic, United Fishermen and Allied Workers' Union president.

Fishermen will "drop anchors and have a little picnic" at the Nanoose Bay Canadian Forces Maritime Test Range, located about 120 kilometres north of Victoria.

The United States navy and Canadian Forces use Nanoose to test submarine torpedoes.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:45 - ID#347235)
You really need help, I don't know why it is that you feel obligated to
attack people once or twice a month you go on the rampages, disappear for a few days, come back acting somewhat better for a few days and then start up again. I seem to be your favorite target lately and don't really care one way or the other what you think of me. Having said that you are really P*ssing of* a lot of other pretty nice people and it has got to stop. I will be in Andover MA at the Marriott COurtyard fro Aug 17-21. If you wish we can settle our differences there Shalom.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:45 - ID#347235)
You really need help, I don't know why it is that you feel obligated to
attack people once or twice a month you go on the rampages, disappear for a few days, come back acting somewhat better for a few days and then start up again. I seem to be your favorite target lately and don't really care one way or the other what you think of me. Having said that you are really P*ssing of* a lot of other pretty nice people and it has got to stop. I will be in Andover MA at the Marriott COurtyard fro Aug 17-21. If you wish we can settle our differences there Shalom.

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:46 - ID#233199)
Perhaps the dog just needs a bit oF* ...chocolate
F-a-r-f-l-e-s Farfel makes the very best ....


(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:52 - ID#373284)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...a warm welcome for Ms. Angela Stern...
each and every in my CARE...Me and Santa on the lawn having drinks...Reserva for me...the WORLDS best brandy for Santa...

One thousand MARINES Guard ME each and every AMERICAN evening...



Lord Molson says HELLO!!!

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:53 - ID#45173)
ERLE: On the ship of wealth
in a gale,
is silver the mast,
the sail,
or the ballast?

(Mon Jun 29 1998 23:57 - ID#45173)
sharefin: Do you know what part of those derivatives represent
hedge positions for equities? I hear it's a big part.