He's like Santa Claus, he'll tell you anything you want to hear. Does he even know what the words TRUTH or Personal Responsibility even are? I think not.This guy has complete and utter contempt for this country. How else can you explain why he can't look us in the eye and tell us the Truth about anything?

Clinton is insincere/ the corporate elit are traitors and are trecherous as the steal our resources and defile our deomcracy through their bribery and thievery. Clinton is a saint next to the violating corporate CEOs. Recognize the REAL ENEMY!

You couldn't stand on your mothers shoulders to kiss Ronald Reagans but.

Here is the FEMA URL concerning Project Impact. Posted without comment. http://www.fema.gov/about/impact.htm

of cheap labor at the expense of American jobs. It is a very sad thing.
More Govt. is not the answer. More opportunity is. It's very easy to present yourself as the guy who really cares about you. It gets him lots of votes. Is he really sincere?

I think that post was one of the better ones ever on Kitco!

ROR: You haven't been this worked up in a long time. What happened today that should create this degree of social outrage? ....... Are we witness to the aftermath of a long and spirited lunch with fellow travellers from Europe perhaps?? ...... For a minute there, you even had my temperature rising. That was until, I got to the part about government and trial lawyers being the means to our salvation. ..... Then humor set in.

for your insight on the gold market.
Posters such as missinglink who glean information to pass to we lower forms, should just pack it up when confronted by such insight and erudition that you lay in front of we swine.
Can you give us a tip on a Canadian Junior?

blooper must be in bed.

You sound like a Sandanista. Ortega ROR. Or maby Infidel Castro.
You see red in the mirror? No wonder you don't like Ronald Ragan. I bet Maggie could whip your but.

I guess not; Hello blooper.

That will read Reagan. Best Pres. of the 20th century. Relegated Communism to "The trash heap of history".

I is awake.

One person corp., one employee/shareholder. $100,000 Gross Sales.
"Micro-business" corp., several employees. up to $1 million Gross.
"Mini-business" corp., tens of employees. $1 - $10 million$ Gross.
"Small business" corp., hundreds of employees. $10 - $100 million Gross.
"Medium business" corp., thousands of employees, up to $1 billion Gross.
"Large business" corp., many tens of thousands, Many billions $ Gross.

If I incorporate my teeny weeny business,
am I going to incur your wrath and insults
because I am now part of "Corporate America"?

If Kitco Minerals & Metals Inc. moved across the border to America
would you criticize them as a dastardly corporation raping the world?

Where do you draw the line?
And what are you doing in the capitalist trade of Gold?

So, K. Starr has photos of William the Wanker I and Miss Monica; inflagrante delicto. Unbelievable! That's even more humorous than ROR's thread on the sanctity of government and the law. For surely, what ROR is missing is that it is, precisely, the Clinton's of this world who make the law and then interpret it for their own purposes. ...... Who was the mythological figure who set out to find an honest man. Dionysius? He's still looking.

There is no national shame in all of this. We are way beyond that. There is only riotous humor in it.

Whenever you see conservatives on television the producers pick out the most unwashed, lowbrows, making conservativism out to be akin to leprosy, then have a smooth, slick liberal ( or socialist if you will ) rebuttal. IMHO

But our friend ROR gives us unedited liberal/socialist commentary with none of the warts airbrushed away. So we can see what are the flaws. IMHO

If I had known old ROR was handy with gold, I might not have jumped his ass. But when he invoked Reagan, he took a crap in his mess kit.
How the hay are you anyway?

That was Diogenes.
Although Dionysius would have a better time in D.C.

Should all be shot. .....OK so thats not feasable....You know how to tell if a lawyer's hung well? If you can't get your little finger between the rope and the neck.

Because you perceive that only they have robber baron CEO's etc.

I know of one-person corporations in my little town
whose CEOs have the ethics of ghetto street gangsters.
( for that matter, I know of one-person sole proprietorships whose "CEOs" have similar ethics and business practices" )
They just wear a tie, drive a BMW and drink Chivas Regal.
Their effects are limited only because they are large fish in a small pond. Give them a chance to grow into a multi-story corporate headquarters with dozens or hundreds of employees and they will be able to do more damage.

Scrape the Gold plating off many people, large or small, and you will find a lead core that will promptly bash your head in to make a buck if they think they can get away with it because nobody will notice.

Gagnrad: Yes, the last of the unvarnished believers on the faith of Good Government ..... and the sanctity of the law.

Even more humorous: if ROR were to suddenly achieve his goal of perfectly formed government; we would have no further need for his legal services. ..... With lawyerly magnanimity, he is sacrificing his livlihood that we may all enjoy the fruits of enlightened governance. ..... yeah, sure. Funny stuff. All of it. ...... unfortunately, the endgame will likely not be as humorous.

I've got daily gold and silver going back to 1967. Platinum and Palladium back to about 1986.

That's all I have in ASCII, the other sources quoted here can help out with the real old stuff.

OK

ROR worships the ground Clinton walks on.

I was kidding, ROR don' know nuttin' 'bout gold.


Thanks for asking. I'm perplexed about the gold stocks, though.
missinglink's Greenspan post is depressing.
Time to hunker down for a while.

Jeil should have picked Agnico-Eagle to go to a Buck, instead of Homestake.
Sleepy time in the not so cold Midwest.

Erle: Earle? Early? ..... Alright, then who was Dionysius? I'm not bright enough to make up a name like that.

I think we can safley scratch ROR ( Hardy Har Har ) off the serious reading list !

JTF, go to the head of the class.
Of course your right, your insight is most crucial . All those foreign creditor's holding their USD denominated debts are like a huge bag sopping up the liquiidity which is kinetic inflation, inchoate waiting to to come rushing home as soon as
the first sign of USD weakness comes to fore.

The result will be F's * staggering stagflation ( simultaneous inflation & contraction ) , and a divergence with long rates rising exponentially to the short rate , a perfect environment for the POG !

Y.O.S.



TAR BABY

there would be no wars." Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...were his name not RICHARD...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...larger then when Sheller saw me last...I palmed the little fellow...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...perhaps this littles might be King...better yet...a framer of the REPUBLIC...

We the person...shall wait...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...nothing in my weight class worries me...in fact several more stones than my weight class...uh huh...

Nocturnal emissions concerning Hillary. What could it mean?
Nixon hater.

I agree he is an embarrassment to his forum ( even more than us bears ) .
Innocent capitalist Goldbug lurkers might get the wrong impression.

BUT I do have to break my own advice and toss in my American 2cents.
ROR - since America bugs you so much - why don't you swim to Cuba?

If we stopped letting the parasites suck our life juices
they would find new hosts ( since they can't work for themselves ) .

They bite the hand that feeds them.

Gagnrad: BTW, I didn't notice anything very threatening in that FEMA URL. It appeared to be more of the usual, stale bilge, from our masters.

When the dollar turns down, investment intrest will return. It will overwhelm leases. Strictly finger in the dike stuff if gold gets launched. Stocks, bonds, utilities wont work. Only gold

thing clear...William Jefferson Clinton is garbage...

Will do it for gold. Gotta wait a while. Dollar can't handle all the forces at once. Must fall as some progress made in Asia, however small. Oil will start to cause trouble ( not much ) but some. Dollar goes down or US manufacturing is finished.

Nearly all the lawyers in my town belong to the group
I mentioned in that post.
Only one of 'em is a right-wing, libertarian, neoliberal-bashing ( classical liberals were good guys ) , gun-totin', NRA member.
Every once in a while you find a orca among the sharks.
( Orcas are nice guys too - in spite of their media image ) .

Means it takes more dollars tom buy junk from Asia. Simple as that. Inflation. Go Gold. That would cure our sore asses.

JTF asked aurator: "As the well deserved worldsmith of Kitco, perhaps you can help us find a word to describe the tendency of conspiracy theorists to consider only their native country as the target of same."

May I sugest Ethnoparanoia?
Or perhaps Xenoschizophrenia?

Oh well..


Stu -
I like my stew Salty

Limey

AND it's not even a weekend!

Back to the main topic.
I put my Silver Eagles on display and sold one already!
Buy low, sell high. Silver Dollar Tourist Souvenirs!

House Judiciary is gearing up to make Al Gore our next president. It's giving me nightmares.

Eight feet down....... Sing Lindsay, you brown noser.

Newtron: Au contraire. ROR is always worth reading. But for at least 2 different reasons. When not inflamed and commenting on markets, his thoughts are always germane and useful to the business at hand.

When in a frightful pother, as was the case this evening, he is still worth reading because he has the underlying causes of our malady firmly joined. It's only his conclusions and advocacy that are unavoidably humorous. And then, only because they are framed by an unworkable belief system. Much like those of us who erringly continue to believe in the sanctity of gold and such. ...... That gold has only brought us to grief is no reason for us to stop believing in gold; is it? And so it is with those who clasp a particular social vision, tightly to their bosom.

And in the end, how are we to judge the merits of our personal positions, if no one is allowed present with opposition? IMO, those folks are far more valuable, to us, than whole legions of those who would only agree with us.

Starts with law, which has it's roots back to when we were but
tribes...
If we were to define Criminal activity today, as was done in days past,
would we then have a government that would be acceptable? I think so...
For before, to have a criminal act, you had to produce the body of the crime ie., a Corpus Delecti... something or someone that was damaged..

Today, we have victimless crimes, where consentual acts and acts that damage no one or anything are made criminal, which simply translates to them being POLITICAL CRIMES, because they are acts not in conformance with government POLICIES, and damage no one or anything.
Which in my opinion is contrary to the whole concept of our Constitution, wherein it is made quite plain, our forefathers had no wish for a paternal State or a State Church.....whereby, our freedom of choice, was defined by the government, but by the simple principle of law... no Corpus Delecti no crime!!!!!
set forth by government,

The same courtesy conservatives get on TV. Hang around if you must, but you're alone.

He keeps Erle off my back.

Liberals are about to be relegated to "The Ash Heap of History".

Can't be hateful for too long, as it drains energy. Goodnight patriots, and may God bless. I sound like Red Skelton. He really meant it too.

I did miss you and your insightful posts.
I figured you were busy with other things.
"Tragedy & Hope" went back to the library today.
I must buy a copy. I prefer trading locally if I can.
Now I cab start on "The Great Wave". Thank You!!!
I promise to read beyond page 50.

Sorry for the delay.
Aphrodite yielded to Dionysus, and bore him Priapus; an ugly child with enormous genitalia. Hera was profoundly PO'ed at Aphrodite and did this to get even for her promiscuity.
Now, do you see the connection to D.C.?

Priapus became a gardener and is usually associated with the large shears that he carries about.

Perhaps he can use them on Willie's dinkie.

GOGOLD. gloogl

ROR couldnt stand on his mothers shoulders just to kiss Ronald Reagan's but. I love that one.

We've all got to draw the line at looney.
We've all got to set the parameters at some where before silly !
When ROR ? ROAR ? RORY CALHOUN gets off his hobbie horse & says something germane to the market ( or can even distinguish between the market & the Goment ) or the POG, I'll gladly temper my
superciliousness !

Love On YA !


Y.O.S.


TAR BABY

Erle: LOL. I knew there had to be a sexual angle ...... to hold my interest. If not, I would have forgotten the name long ago. Thanks.

You talkin bout the mayor of D,C. ( former mayor ) Berry. Numerous genitalia. I wondered how a good liberal like him could get elected. That's it. Numerous genitalia.

There is a word for that.-- Oikophobia-- Greek for "one who fears the familiar".

blooper, I'm on your side, I think.

Newtron: "Loony" or not those are the thoughts that have largely shaped this century and will remain to impact the next. It's always possible to judge and disagree, without being disagreeable.

Is it true you are really Al Gore???????

I know. Thanks.

But we will surely have to execute the TV news media. Did I say execute? Of course I meant excuse.

---That's enormomous, not numerous.
I hadn't thought of that possibility.

I think that goldbugs and honest people should contact their representatives in gommint and demand an end to IMF funding.
Then you should short the BKX.

Newtron: By way of addendum; I happen to believe that Ronald Reagan was an unmitigated economic disaster for the US. A nice guy but a disaster. Further, I believe that anyone who would genuflect at the feet of any modern politician ( of this century at least ) has his head firmly "up and locked", as they say. ..... So when I read comments like Blooper's veneration of RR, I generally just gag once or twice and move on to something worth considering.

If voting made any difference, they'd outlaw it.

then past such so that you might speak your mind...we can not learn to disagree until each of us have been heard...NAMASTE'

http://www.impeachment.org/
http://www.impeachclinton.org/
http://www.impeachclinton.com/
http://www.pacificnet.net/~datalus/impeach/
AND
news:alt.impeach.clinton
AND
for the House Judiciary Committee ( where hearings on impeachment and evenutally articles of impeachment will be drafted )
http://www.house.gov/judiciary/

and Rep. Bob Barr's site ( he is a driving force for impeachment )
http://www.house.gov/barr/
and specifically take a look at his impeachment page & resolution
with lots of links to other info
http://www.house.gov/barr/i_.htm

Could some one point me to an oil/gold chart going back to late 50's or so?

Thanks

Erle: That's it! The best one liner I've read in a very long time. Thanks. ..... I will now distribute freely. .... with full attribution of course.

Except for lawyers and TV. media. Sorry. I'm not THAT open minded.

TOUCHE, TOUCHE !
"Sticks & stoners", but sometimes comments do reflect badly on the hominim!
Terribly muddled thinking can be reflective of character flaws which as you suppose are better suffered than observed. However, as much as I treasure this post, I would rather push a peanut with my nose on my kness through pidgion park than listen to marxist drival on my avocation time.

Y.O. & Sincere S.,


TAR BABY

To Cheesehead ..
Yesterday you said ..

" GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD ( AWAY TO PLAY
SOME GOLF WHILE MARKET TANKS-- )
ID#431263:
will return in time for the close which I expect to
be MUCH LOWER! Wiedersehen!"

well Guten Morgen old buddy I hope you play golf
better than you call the market ..

But Ill say this .. you look real cute in that little
CHEERLEADER dress.

He single handedly defeated communism. Was a shining light . You don't know didley about Reagan. He spent a lot of money so you could be free of nuclear holocoust. Zero-Option was lambasted by democrats, and yet Gorbachef negotiated a one sided ( our side ) treaty... Tear down these walls. He had balls. Your sde were cowards.

I see we are having a blooper / earl / erle ROR-bashing session again. That is always fun. I will reiterate my basic point for ROR until he gets it:

"If you are for the enormous increase in government power it takes to confiscate all the property you must in order to set up your socialist system, then you ain't FOR freedom, you're agin it."

I think I'm paraphrasing myself there. ROR: have you tried the Jack London books I recommended a few weeks ago?

Anyway, what I really logged on for was to ask all you Kitco-ites if you've had any experience with e-gold?

Democrats shook in their shoes, like the cowards they were. "Don't call them an Evil Empire". Don't tell them to "tear down that wall". What a bunch of faithless boobs. I guess you want a Jimmy Carter to tell us we're finished?

Say it ai't so.

Unless they want to take up rural or small town ways.
They are not welcome!
We are sick and tired of people coming here and right off wanting to change things. They complain about beat up pickups parked on the street. They complain about the deer hanging from the basketball hoop mounted on the garage. They complain about local government not doing enough about economic development and bringing more jobs to town - nice idea - but along with it comes higher taxes, more traffic, more yuppies, etc.
We are losing our workin' man's bars and getting espresso bars and sushi joints! YUK! ( *^$!^%#%^$_ ) ( ) ^#!!!
Not only do they complain - they get the local gov't to enforce their wishes ( things like trash & nuisance ordinances are on the books - it's just that we define "trash" and "nuisance" differently than cityslickers do. )
These cityslickers are usually bloodsucking liberals who sabotage our schools and social service programs to where Christian parents trying to raise their kids right have to resort to home schooling and fearing a knock on the door from the SS.
These liberals are anti-gun - so we can't get carry permits anymore and gosh help the feller who walks down the street packing his pistol in plain sight. The cops get called cuz some cityslicker got all shook up.
AND
The store owner down the street who shaves his head to keep cool gets accused of being one of them Aryan Nationalist Skinhead Radicals. Pretty soon the cityslicker liberals will get the police to raid his place for contraband - you know - stockpiles of guns, ammo, food, Gold & Silver.

Cheesehead ..
I should live so long ..

Bloomer ..
I actually agree with you ..
( can this be true?? )

Blooper: You just invoked the gag reflex. Arrrrgh....... Though it be rejected out of hand, there are many who would counsel "sober reflection". .... Then again, humor is in short supply.

As in: "The only good politician is the one I believe in. All the rest are crap". ....... One must have a defective gene to not get a kick out of this.

to all
I think ROR makes some excellent
points.

What happened to your pretense that all ideas are of equal worth baloney that you were pushing about ROR's malarky ?

RR was no doubt the greatest President of this century. He spent the commies of the evil empire into the stone age while generating more revenue for the socilaist pigs like you & ROR to redistribute to the "Great Society" of dead beats & to the sanctimonious satisfaction of the lords of compassiion & confiscatory wealth that you laud & aspire to.
Y.O.S.


TAR BABY

Don't start with me Dizney. Just kidding. I will defend Reagan. He gets no credit from those TV. media jackasses. Most everyone else owes him a debt of gratitude, except Earl. That is his right. ( To catch hell ) .
John, how are ya?

Pleased to meet you!

John Disney: It's been more than a week and still no first hand reports from our SA reporter regarding the recent nuptials. It's widely assumed that you would be on the "A" list and in such position as to fill us in on the details. As you might imagine, photos of the broadly beaming couple were widely distributed among the politically sensitive on these shores. From all appearances, it was the highlight of the SA social season. ...... Did they really live in sin for several years?????

I'm having fun. I don't usaally know i'm totally right about things. On this issue I believe I am. You'r politicians Lack character, And courage. You guys like to say there is no black and white, just grey. Bullshit philosophy sir.

I can understand why many people appreciate RR as president. However, I cannot agree that he was the greatest president of this century. I vote for Harry Truman.


All:
Anyone here have anything to say about e-gold?

Your master WJC is about to relegate you to the ASH HEAP gee this is fun OF HISTORY. Ronald reagan still has more brains than most democrats. WJC is an embarrasment, as was Jiiia CAWTER, and so was JFK. Though I did like some of Kennedy's guts. sorry Robert. Guess it don't pay to double cross the MAFIA.

No. He was a better habadassher, and he went belly up doing that. He got nothing done, let alone save the world.

New/Bloop: If you guys will read what I actually said I'm sure you will find my comments to be confined to one area. "Economic disaster". A quadrupling of the national debt in those 8 years. From 1 trillion in 1980 to over 4 when he left office. But a nice guy. And I will not speak ill of him. ..... The Russians may not have frightened him but Tip O'Neil did. Remember that porcine ward heeler??

But I won't speak ill of the man. Even though he came to his "conservatism" later in life. By way of his father in law. As I recall. And was essentially a John Wayne kind of patriot. Fought like hell on the silver screen.

China from McCarthur.

You don't have to fight a war to have an influence. It is called leadership.
Reagan had it. Kennedy had it. Even Wayne had it. Clinton lacks conviction. But he is a typical democrat. You think Gore has it? Gore wont carry 10 states.

Guess what? We don't agree on who the greatest president of this century was. I have my reasons for respecting Truman, you have yours for respecting Reagan, and we could each spend Kitco time bashing the other guy's favorite prez, but let's not.

Instead let me propose this: my favorite president of the 20th century would have been Barry Goldwater, if he'd won in 64. Too bad he didn't. There's a man who loved freedom.

Here's a question: which of the three following presidents is the worst president of the 20th century --- FDR, LBJ or WJC? I vote for LBJ. He lined his own pockets while America's youth was dying in a useless war. Would he have ended the war in a timely fashion if his shipping company wasn't making millions transporting war goods to VietNam? I don't know, but no president can profiteer on the blood of my brothers without earning my wrath. Who gets your vote?

Anybody here got anything to say about e-gold?

JTF / Limey / Erle

"perhaps you can help us find a word to describe the tendency of conspiracy theorists to consider only their native country as the target of same."

Limey has 2 excellent suggestions: Ethnoparanoia. Or perhaps Xenoschizophrenia? Erle favours Oikophobia.

Mayhaps we could look at propatriphobia: demesnophagia; anti-securitisation and, my favourite, the anglo-saxon "spruttish"

What does Mini Mouse say these days Re S&P ?

What ho mine red herring !

I've been receiving disturbing, but impeccable intelligence from three nome sources that the dow has peeked as of July 20 with 15% to 25% correction by Aug 30, also 20%+ slide in OCT. Bradly indicator; Stack report ( COPPOCK GUIDE ) ; Barton Biggs & Peter Elydias are flashing " SIGN of the Bear " !
A/D & H/L & of course valuations by any measure, Dividend, book or P/E are off the chart. S&P looks like it wants to rally this week, but breadth is halitosis.
I will short this rally into the valley of death.
Once more into the breach !

Yes indeedy !



Regards,


Y.O.S.


TAR BABY

Reagan developed character early in his life. He would have been instrumental no matter what his party affiliation. Your mom and dad probably paid to go see him.

Blooper: Read Erle at 01:39. Take it to heart and believe it. Because it's as close to the truth as we're likely to get. ...... later duuuuuude.

Truman was fine....I'm on a roll. I havent had this much fun in a long time.

I'm just carrying on, goodnight, talk later.

Blooper: Couldn't resist. If you will take the time to check the record, I think you will find out that RR's first party affiliation was something along the lines of socialist. 'N that's not meant to be a slam. ...... but then myths are so much more satisfying.

True believers are always the first to be used as cannon fodder. And that's good. It provides additional time for the rest of us to leave for quieter, less troubled parts.

Harry was OK. nothing special. He was cocky, He cussed, But accomplishments were nothing to write home about. I liked him.
You gotta do something to be great. Defeating Communism qualifys.

How about Ike?

It is not so much what a President or administration does.
It may be what they restrain themselves from doing.

For the worst - I'll vote for LBJ.
Even Clinton can't beat him - yet.

He was the victum or communist sympathizers in hollywood. I know the story. He was a life-guard. deeply religious. He did have character. Democrats don't for most part.

So, anybody got anything to say about e-gold?

And please check out the attached jpeg file. It makes a little anti-government political statement in its own quaint way. Just a little something to say "goodnight".

Governments from local school boards to the PRESIDENT do this.
And a lot of little people do to.
If nobody is looking.

All actors are socialists. I would say he got back at tha Commies though, wouldn't you?

True. He was the first to warn about the "military-industrial complex".
I like constipated government. No movement.

I agree completely with the "yet". I suspect that the Seducer-in-Chief doesn't have the substance to accomplish the villainy that LBJ did, but he's got a year or two left. WJC is simply a nothing, and in the final analysis, that's a good thing, in a perverse sort of way.


Blooper: you interested in a book entitled "The Last Democrat" or "Why Bill Clinton Will Be the Last Democrat Americans Elect President"? It's available from the Liberty Book Club and might be interesting.

By the way, does anybody have anything to say about e-gold?

He will destroy the Democratic party
unless they drop him like a hot potato before November.

ARE THEY ANY COMBAT VETS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT?
Or even any non-combat vets?
Or at least old-style Boy Scouts?

No?

Are we gonna be in even deeper doo doo!

were. A bunch of yellow-bellied, lilly livered, communist sympathizers. Don't mak em mad. Don't say that. He's a war monger. Oh plllllllease, Im scared. "Tear Down That Wall". Oh dddon't call them Evil. Evil, by God is what they were.

Gore was a photographer. Guess he was connected ( no 11A10 ) .

There's too much agreement going on here. Where's ROR when you need him? What happened to Karlito?

I agree that Ike was sound in many ways. But, like Truman, he was scared of the Soviets. Somehow Reagan was not, and somehow lead us all into abandoning the "better red than dead" stand and ..... we won! ( sort of, though in reality Russia just traded one set of thugs for another and the new ones have nuclear bombs, too, so we'll see if we've really "won". ) That's the good part of the Reagan years. It became cool again to love your country.

Sorry, man everyone is politicking tonight. The employment report hits Thurs. It's the wage report. Up.08 is expected. any more and gold will benefit. Otherwise, I would defer to the dollar. Got to have a falling dollar.

TV. media want you to hate your country: Peter Arnett.

Went to Russia during the cold war, when you would'nt be caught dead over there. Burned the flag while in school in England. Hillary worked for Democrats in Watergate. Hated Nixon.

Snorted cocaine in governors mansion. Maby white-house.

But nobody will comment on e-gold. Has anybody at Kitco had any experience with this? It looks like an InterNet attempt to replace fiat money with PM.

Look at www.e-gold.com

Ting..Ting

We Interrupt this argument about merkan politics that thankfully is above my head for a few real-life courtroom quips. Hope you like them
-----

The accused was charges with indecently assaulting another male. The complainant said this:
I was just standing there when ( points to the accused ) that man came up and touched me on the Gentiles.

In another case the witness was asked:
Were you kicked in the mele?
No, it was in the guts.

in ANOTHER:
Counsel: The truth of the matter is, that you were not an objective, unbiased witness, isnt it? You, too, were shot in the fracas.
Witness: No, sir, incorrect. I was shot midway between the fracas and the navel.


Ting...Ting

Back to the bunfight

That was funny as hell. fracas.

Can't you fathom the internal contradiction in your last post ?
The deficits accumulated in the RR years were a function of the "Porcine" spending on worse than worthless social programs of Tip's party, not the paltry sum RR spent rebuilding our defenses that the Peanut Man let fall into bloody chaos.
The supply side tax cuts miraculously wrestled away from Tip by RR as quid quo pro for all that social spending by Tip & liberal Republicans raised revenue out the wazooloo, but were outstripped by outlandish entitlement spending which captured GDP & severely restricted productive capacity.

RR was not perfect. He may not even have been a grand man, but he was the hands down the best president of this century considering what he accomplished for the country while carrying & dragging along the likes of Tip Ted Kennedy & Bob Doleful !
Does any one remember the foot dragging of Bob Dole when he was majority leader under RR ?
RR had to fight the Evil Empire with one arm & a leg tied behind his
back !


But as far as a great man as President in this Century, there is none other than TR himself !
DEEEEEElighted ! Now there was a man !


19th century candidates Washington, Jefferson, Jackson ?


Y.O.S.


TAR BABY

You can't get your little finger between his neck and the rope.

slingshot
Or should I call you arbalest?
I know that some posters on the day shift have good things to say about e-gold. Perhaps you could post your question again then. Personally I can't imagine holding e-gold in my hand: weighing it and watching the light dance and glint.

crusty
Please, do you know how much gold the SA CB retains? Or point me to an URL? I'm sure they keep it just for ballast, of course.

You guys were lilly livered Communist sympathizers. Other than that you were allright.

"Dont post any unrelated comments that are likely to arouse a strong emotional response."

Kitco's guidelines for conduct are appropriate to the fact people gather socially here. If someone is spoiling a social gathering with bad behavior, it's OK, of course, for the host to eject them. And it's up to the host to decide whether or not to re-admit the penitent. But, bear in mind also that in this cyber place social censure has another consequence.

I consider censorship to be control over publication. 404 connotes a ban on publishing at Kitco by the offending poster. That's censorship in my lexicon. In fact, the Kitco guidelines are essentially, the same as the guidelines invoked to justify the removal of the works of a renowned Serbian author from all the schools and libraries in an area in the Balkans under occupation by the U.N. The road to hell is always paved with somebody's good intentions.

Strictly enforced, the netiquette guidelines would prohibit anything but pablum on Kitco. But, they are not so enforced. And, so Kitco is not lifeless. Bart is clearly not eager to censor. Editorial control of publication is certainly absent as he says. But, control of publication by permanently exiling the targets of peer complaint is also censorship. And I don't agree that Bart should give the mob spirit that sometimes prevails on Kitco that much power.

Japan up 170

I am not a Reagan fan, but you do have a point. My objection to Reagan has always been that he ran as a deficit hawk and then sold that position out to get his massive defense spending program past congress.

Bottom line, though, is that the Constitution gives Congress control over the purse strings and ultimate responsibility for the deficits of the Reagan years goes to Tip. My complaint about Reagan is that he ran as a deficit hawk and then failed to make anywhere near as much noise about Tip's spending as he should have. Neat thing about this point of view is that it gives us the opportunity to give credit for the upcoming budget surplus ( it ain't here yet, but July has been a flat month for the public debt, so it's coming ) to the Republican Congress.

I think the real credit goes to the founding fathers. Clinton won't authorize a penny of extra defense spending and the congress won't authorize a penny of extra entitlement spending, and during the impass the economy caught up to the deficit. The checks and balances of the system invented 200+ years ago were at work here, guys.

I concede TR was a great one. He also is an example of how the first environmentalists were hunters / fishermen. They were into wilderness conservation back when the liberals were all only interested in organizing factory workers.

Does anybody have anything to say about e-gold?

Jump in there .

We need you on network TV.

Communists don't like to see other Communists being decimated. Normal Americans are glad Communism was relegated to the ASH HEAP.

Do you remember when Tip CO. threatened to impeach RR for standing up to that little Bolshevic thug Danny Orteaga in Nicaragua !
The fellow travelers in Tip's party like that pig Jim Wright of Texas would have given away Latin America if It weren't for RR & how would the Evil Empire have been emboldened by that event ?
Remember how that self rightious, crooked & unctious little man used to try to conduct the nations diplomacy.
One shudders to think when you consider the clutches that held the levers of power in that Democrat House in the days of RR & the senate for a part of the time under Bob Doleful, tax collecter for the wellfare state !


Thanks be to God!


Y.O.S.


TAR BABY

Thanks, perhaps I will try the day posters. I'm mainly wondering if anyone has actually used this system, and, if so, with what success.

Re: "arbalest" - crossbows are not my style, though they can be fun. I prefer a standard re-curve or an old-fashioned slingshot which I still use and which my eyes happened to land on when I was looking about the study trying to think of a moniker. With my posts here, though, I don't feel much like I'm slinging ROCKS, if you know what I mean.

Hated to see Communism defeated by Reagan. It hurt her deeply. Barbarella cried. Poor Barby.

I remember well. That is why I am a bulldog after these cowardly guys.
You know the Nicaraguan people voted that bastard out of office. I will never vote for a democrat again. Or Dole. His wife has the gonads in that family. Milking a disability for all it is worth. Sausage maker. No guts.

Normally I wouldn't do anything that might put a penny in Hanoi Jane's pocket, but I just have to rent Barbarella every now and then, knowing that she tried and failed to buy the rights to it. It's worth the 2 cents she gets in residuals every time I rent it, knowing that it humiliates her to have me see her make a complete fool of herself like that.

Coldest day in 5 years in Canabeera. Is that el nino kid still hanging around??

Is it my imagination or is gold creeping back up again? The Captain over at The Privateer thinks that 290 is an important point. Yo ho ho and a bottle of beer!!

She was a babe. I would pretend I was a Sandanista, if I thought I could romp on that a while.

I always though that you were somewhere between the second baseman and the right fielder. Or is your moniker a reflection on our precious??

You are either an insomniac, a night worker posting on the company's time, a Kitco addict, or all of the above.

cheers, N.@freezing his bunnies off.

This may not be the whole truth, my suspicious mind thinks they were trying a Y2K relay. 'Course I have not a scintilla of evidence to support my prejudices, but why let facts get in the way of a good story?

http://www.nbr.co.nz/Detail.cfm?ID=819902&Page=2512
Transpower will today begin looking at options to replace two
badly=damaged transformers at the centre of a power black-out in
the Eastern Bay of Plenty.

Power to about nine thousand residents from Opotiki to Cape
Runaway was restored late last night after a day without
electricity.

The two transformers blew-out after a Transpower worker left an
earth switch open following routine maintenance.

I hate to tell you this, but there still is a budget deficit for all practical purposes. The Feds simply use an accounting technique ( a unified budget, which is illegal for the rest of us ) in which they take trust funds ( Social Security ) and mingle them with general funds. Charles Keating didn't even stoop that low. Take away SS funds and we're still running a $100+ billion deficit. I do like your point about checks & balances...it got Nixon out of office and now it looks like it'll get Clinton out on the pavement, too.

You & I know they never would have gotton a chance to vote if RR had not given them the courage & material to resist the Bolshevics.
Ollie North gave Tip, the Bollin Amendment & the special Prosecutor the deep 6 & saved the day just barely !
& RR couldn't "remember" what he told Ollie to do or why he was hanging around the White House all the time !
Now, let's see, where did I put those darn jelly beans ?
He was the man !


Y.O.S.


TAR BABY

Agreed. Deficit is not truly gone. My touchstone for "balanced budget" in this case is when the slope on the public debt goes negative, but that is not completely accurate since Soc. Sec surplus is not handled "off budget" as it should be.

Social Security "trust fund" is made up of worthless paper, since it consists of US bonds, i.e. IOUs of government. In hands of government, these instruments are worth zip. ( if you deposit a check from your bank account into the same account, the net change in your balance would be zero .... U.S. bonds are worthless in possession of U.S. government ) . At most these bonds are promise of U.S. government to borrow money in future to finance Social Security obligations. But the purchase of these bonds with SS surplus results in money in hands of treasury, thus the flat debt curve right now and the appearance of a balanced budget.

Yet .... the deficit has been reduced to the point that all that's left of it is the SS surplus .... and I credit that to Republican Congress, ( political ) impotence of WJC and the wisdom of founding fathers.

Yea, GRUNT, he,he,he, ......{Makes noise like Bevus & Buthead}

What a babe. Too bad she's got saw dust for brains. Recently she has discoverd poverty in Georgia & made a dutiful report to the United Nations.
I wonder what the poverty level is like back in her home away from home in The Republic of Vietnam, or in the parts of Cambodia still run by her soul mates the C R, the sons of Pol Pot !
But by gum the girl can act ! Cat Ballew, They Shoot Horses. & Barbarella is the greatest B soft porn & satire of my adolesence.

Y.O.S.


TAR BABY

Bloops ..
Im find and I passed on the wedding
invitation ..
You know .. when I implied ROR
was a stand up guy ... I was only
kiddin .. you know like trying to start
somefink.
BUT I fink vat many Corporate
CEO are paid too much as are
afletes ..
Akchally I fink vat anybody
who make more money van I makes
too much money .. I fink vat we
should redistribute dair welf
and give it mostly to me .. Dat is
called greedbag socialism ..
It make da world go round.

Statement by a caring young woman explaining her car accident:

"I saw a slow-moving, sad-faced old gentleman as he bounced off the bonnet of my car."

Well, I read it, turned it 90 degrees and read it again, and again,
and once I realized you weren't writing "anti-perspirant," I thought I would give it another try. Then I went back to trying to make more
sense out of it substituting the words "aluminum silicate." I can't
think of any reason you should not run for high elected office. Heck,
my small brain is impressed.

The intentional great words written and/or created by various posters
are truly clever and interesting. However, the use of "numerous"
rather than "enormomous" got the biggest pair of laughs.

Your point is well made & taken that the genius of our constituional checks & balances & the ensuing stalemate has had a salutary effect on our public finances. It has long been apparant that we could grow our way out of the mess if Congress would merely cap spending growth.
But I really can't see holding a grudge against RR for being unable to stop that run away train that as you point out was not really his baby Remember his budgets were always DOA & Tip would brief the sycophants in the meadia & the media wold dutifully report how mean spirited or senile RR was. Remember the months of negative press when Nancy replaced the Garl Darn China ( AT no cost to the taxpayer ) ! I also remember the disappointment when thre was no "good fight" against the excessive & counter-productive social spending. But remember with the enemies he had like Tip, Jim Wright & Teddy & the "friends" he had like Bob Doleful & Howie "Half-Baked" Baker on his side & the rediculous socialist bias of the organs of the press, in hindsight, it's amazing he got any thing of substance accomplished at all, much less saving us from a very real Evil Empire that had streachd to our own back door ! This was the only thing he had to do & he doid it. It is the thing that mkes everything else possible 7 even allows us the freedom to debate the solution to the prblems that make up an optimistic future.
One thing has impressed me that the best arguement for tax reduction is that it not only puts $s in productive hands to grow the pie, but most important it hinders the spending of $s by Congress.
The deficits be damned !


Y.O.S.


TAR BABY

Dunno why, but for the first time in months, I have bullish emotions - gold-related. Usually this is a sell-signal, but there is a taste of faith. Last men standing, Barts lost souls we are. Go Goldbugs.
Morn to all.

I recall a book entitled "Four Reasonable Men." One of those was John Stuart Mill. If the book were to be re-written today, number five might
be Bart. Reasonableness *should* prevail. A reasonable person could
look at the offending boards and be able to know that some
commentary is, or could be, offensive. The truly offensive posters
certainly detract from the whole. As an example, my wife happened by
on a day when the * was really going at it, and looking over my shoulder, she read the screen. She said she couldn't believe I was spending
hours every day reading that trash, and wanted me to give my chores priority. mozel, I really wish/hope/want you to, just once, pretend that
you are *not* brilliant, articulate, and opinionated, and *give in* to
the requests of those of us whose lives you touch so profoundly. If I,
with my small brain, can absorb an iota of your thoughts, and nurture it,
and become a more-practiced thinker, I will be, in my own estimation,
wealthy. Think, I will. Teach, I will. Try, I will. Please be here for me. And so many others who appreciate you.

FOLLOWING ARE ACTUAL STATEMENTS FOUND ON INSURANCE FORMS WHERE CAR DRIVERS ATTEMPTED TO SUMMARIZE THE DETAILS OF AN ACCIDENT IN THE FEWEST POSSIBLE WORDS. THE INSTANCES OF FAULTY WRITING SERVE TO CONFIRM THAT EVEN INCOMPETENT WRITING CAN BE HIGHLY ENTERTAINING.
o Coming home I drove into the wrong house and collided with a tree I
don't have.
o The other car collided with mine without giving warning of its intention.
o I thought my window was down, but I found it was up when I put my head
through it.
o I collided with a stationary truck coming the other way.
o A truck backed through my windshield into my wife's face.
o The guy was all over the road. I had to swerve a number of times before I hit him.
o I pulled away from the side of the road, glanced at my mother-in-law and headed over the embankment.
o In an attempt to kill a fly I drove into a telephone pole.
o I had been shopping for plants all day and was on my way home. As I reached an intersection a hedge sprang up, obscuring my vision and I did not see the other car.
o I had been driving for forty years when I fell asleep at the wheel and had an accident.
o I was on the way to the doctor with rear end trouble when my universal joint gave way causing me to have an accident.
o As I approached an intersection a sign suddenly appeared in a place where no stop sign had ever appeared before. I was unable to stop in time to avoid the accident.
o To avoid hitting the bumper of the car in front I struck a pedestrian.
o My car was legally parked as it backed into another vehicle.
o An invisible car came out of nowhere, struck my car and vanished.
o I told the police that I was not injured, but on removing my hat found that I had a fractured skull.
o I was sure the old fellow would never make it to the other side of the road when I struck him. LkAmN

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpne03.htm

10 ) You know the price of Gold going back to to 1600. 9 ) You smirk every time someone says "another" 8 ) Whenever your team scores, you shout "Brabo!" 7 ) Favorite pick up line "Want to see my Mountie?" 6 ) You wash your hands after handling FRNs. 5 ) When scrolling up, you know who wrote the post before seeing the name. 4 ) You actually know what "contagio" means 3 ) Two words--Go Gold! 2 ) You just KNOW Gold will hit $30,000 any day. And the number one sign you are spend too much time at Kitco-- Show me the Mounties!

Coming soon to a market near you. NOTHING will be spared, except $US and US Treasury securities. Mining stocks are at the edge of the abyss.

As anticipated not much happened in the overnight markets until London opened. Approaching the open, silver went up to about 5.67 then dropped to bounce off a low around 5.60

Gold showed a similar but much subdued pattern throughout with a slight upward bias.

These are consolidation patterns. Gold looks a little stronger than silver. Normally I would expect a quiet day, but then that happened yesterday.

July 28th 6:11 AM: Cable declines below 1.6540 as UK Q2 CBI industry trends survey shows a sharp deterioration in business conditions. This report indicates reduced investments and layoffs in the near future at large sections of British industry.

July 28th 6:05 AM: UK Q2 CBI industry trends survey much weaker then expected: total orders balance -17 versus +2 last quarter. export orders dropped at fastest rate in 12 years. Domestic manufacturing falls for the first time in 2 years -15 versus +9 last quarter. Optimism balance -44 versus expected -26 and previous -22.

Earl & ERLE
Im not sure, but I think the both of you are talking bout Dyonisos, the greek god of wine, as I think Dionysius was some kind of saint or whatever. Anyway, Priapos scissors - still depicted in numerous souvenirs from temporary greece - gave his name for the medical terminus "priapism", a urogenital dysfunctionality, which reportedly sounds mmore desireable as it actually feels - and can damage important parts of h- scissors.

All:
Watching the religious eager of some of the respected posters that occurs any time a liberal taste lingers in the air I always wonder, if some of them at least can distinguish between socialdemocracy and communism. Is neoliberal Trotzkism worse than fundamentalistic Marxism, is it true that Engels was a capitalist and who was Victor Adler? Is a republican allowed to drink a Cuba libre, and why is a Havanna more tasty than any honest american cigar?
But in fact Im not too interested in an answer, just want to keep this site clean from any hostile unreflected statements like "swim to Cuba".
fRED@virginia

A president who was clearly a victim of alzhiemers for most of his presidency. "Ron did you fart?" " No Nancy was I supposed to?" Go Gold!

In this link you will find the Investor Business Daily's Mutual Fund Index chart...
http://members.aol.com/gaston2/ibd72898.gif
Mutual funds look as if they are making a double top ( April and July ) with a terrible RSI and a crossing of the 50d MVA ( Oh! No! ) ... We are doomed, folks!... MF managers could not yank out a profit yesterday, while the DOW "recovered nicely"!... Talk about a crumbling market...
Time to seriously short this equity market during any rally and look at PMs VERY closely...
Good luck to all
Gaston

Profits now back in the black........er - GOLD!

http://www.barney.co.za/july98/drd27.htm

Amendement said.....That those powers delegated to the Government... shall not extend to.... nor be used to deny or deminish those rights reserved to the people.....Could/Would this mean, that Congress.... is without authority...... to legislate or enact laws respecting rights specifically reserved to the people..........and that these laws would be... are simply VOID....and this even before repeal.....whereas, there is no fact, bona-fide finding of fact, in so many cases......upon which Congress has exercised it's law making powers.....without the limits of it's authority!!!!!!!!!

Here we have two different views. Gollum is quietly optomistic gold and silver will trend higher while Crystal Ball sees a crash for everything except the dollar and treasuries.

Must say I'm a little in each camp. Zero percent traditional equities, 66% US short term maturity treasuries, and 33% precious metal mining stocks. It's the precious metals that I'm worried the most about. They seem to be linked so closely to the yen and its every quiver I should have an off setting short position in the Japanese currency.

The Japanese in my opinion will not solve their problems with the same old crowd in control of the economy and the Ministry of Finance. The economies of Asia, England and soon all of Europe and the US will have shown economic contraction by the end of the third quarter. The highly valued stock markets must be vulnerable, perhaps very vulnerable.

The CBs and their depression betting allies are having no problem keeping gold and silver very much controlled dispite what seems compelling fundlementals in silver. Their ernestness, I think, is based on the end of the year marking to market and conversion of the CBs' dollar to Euro reserves. ( I first heard about this on this board and am looking for further clarification. )

Second factor needing investication before the death of equities is pronounced is the timing and size of the future private Japanese flow of funds out of Japanese institutions into the US and European stock markets. This flow is to start at the commencement of the next leg of the Japanese deregulation. When is that?? I think I heard it was this coming December or January. If we were to get a 20-25% correction in US equities in the Ocotober period and the Japanese are indeed allowed to more freely invest in the US at year's end or new year's beginning Dow 10,000 could be quickly passed, rendering a reentre into the stock market late in the year as a possible big winner, if the powers of deflation and economic slowdown are not overwhelming.

At the beginning of the new year the control of the gold and silver markets will cease to be such a concern to the central bankers. The strenght of the Euro I see developing as world central banks diversify could contain the dollar, allowing the precious metal market to rise again if the economic slowdown is not overwhelming.

So why am I long any precious metal investments??? The yen will be weak, economies will slow, the CB and their bearish allies will contain the price of gold and silver . .. .

I guess because I know I could be wrong. The linkage between the gold stocks and traditional stocks when the dow is in retreat could end. The CBs may lose control. I don't trust any government or group of governments to protect us from economic turmoil. Precious metals and sound money is almost a religion with me, potentially at this juncture to my total assets' reduction in value.

Thanks, I needed that.......tears rolling down my face. wow.

mi familia es su familia..........kitcosa nostra...'mornin'

Even a few fat rats can make it off a sinking ship. JUMP!!!

Silver is creeping up; but I'm not going to get my hopes up. I did that yesterday. I am just going to sit here complacently and quietly.
Calm and composed. What will be, will be. Om mani padme om.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980727/emerging_d_1.html

Expected extremes never happen.

It's the unexpected that is a real killer.

He could have done more for a Goldbug, but I think the green Spain is a very capable person. Just nobody listens no more, when he says "wulf". Obviously it is not the right time for reading between the lines, so maybe he should explain to the crowd what a wulf really is.

Denomination: Three ( 3 ) dollars.
Portrait: Prevaricating Pussaholic President Bill Clinton "Old Irondick"
Modified Motto: he pluralpuss needum.

Fiend says market's technicsl condition is worse today than in the summer of 1987. Time to short the rallies.

Indeedy


Fiend Commentary
================

1987 Looked Better

As the chart above shows, the technical picture of the market leading into
the crash of 1987 was a lot better than it is today. Although the NYSE
advance/decline line topped out in March ( it did make a marginal new high
in August, it never really diverged that much from the Dow's subsequent
strong gains. The number of new NYSE 52 week highs topped out at 258 in
February. By the time of the Dow's peak in August, the number of new 52
week highs only totaled 135. Keep in mind that there only about 2,000
issues trading back in those days compared to the 3,500 of today.

Consider the situation currently. The number of new NYSE 52 week highs
peaked back in October at over 600. During the Dow's recent run of new
record highs the number of new 52 week highs remained at about one third the
level. Even today with the Dow trading back above 9,000, there were only a
couple of dozen new 52 week highs. The NYSE advance/decline is now below
the level it started the year at and is nowhere near its April peak.

These are just a few technical items. If you also throw in the fact that
the S&P 500's P/E ratio recently hit 30 along with a dividend yield of
less than 1.4% it is easy to argue that the situation in 1987 ( leading up
to the Dow's worst crash in history ) looked a whole lot better than it
does currently.

While I remain cautious on gold short-term, I am convinced that a new and powerful gold bull is close. After all even RJ says that gold probably will start to move if the stock market goes down for the count. And the stock market does look like it will tank for real before long.

To the retreating Mike McCurry.......above the norm IQ, indeed. Yes, Live to talk another day.

1. Can anyone advise me of URL's where I can get charts of price of crude oil ( Saudi, North Sea, or whatever ) ? I won't be able to stay online so please email to mybear@flash.net . Thanks

2. Boy, if those 40 pictures ( some intimate photos reported by MSNBC?? ) of Bill and Monica get published the Pres is toast. Remember what happened to Gart Hart.

Yes, I believe Old Irondick is starting to rust. Can't help on charts......sorry.

Six months ago silver was trading over six dollars an ounce. About a week later it shot up to over seven and a half an ounce. Many six month short positions were opened at and shortly after that time that are still in ht money. Those positions are nearing expiry at a time when some tightness is developing in the silver market.

The numbers to watch today are 5.68 and 5.59

Jonesy: Good flying weather today, what do ya think? Yen up, bonds down, gold up, dollar down, DOW queasy.

Dr. Paul Hein decribes a scenario of inescapable truth where the next war will be fought--probably IS being fought, without bombs or bullets, but with bucks.

The scenario Dr. Hein paints is that of modern day Russia, where some Russian soldiers are forced to eat dog food, because their government doesn't have enough money to buy human food.

Dr. Hein wonders if the US recommendation some years ago "that Russia tie the ruble to gold" might be the solution to their plaguing problems." Russia has lots of gold, after all,
and the ruble would gain strength if linked to the precious metal.

Unfortunately, Russia does not seem to produce anything that anyone wants. Therefore, the Russians are between a Rock and a Hard Spot. Dr. Hein is totally pessimistic about Russia's future - as he succinctly observes, " The Russkies can't win."

It will be necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before posting the URL to the Internet Finder:

http://www.golden-eagle.com/gold_digest_98/hein072898.html

and yes, even the Canadian dollar. I have noticed no uptick in the
equity prices of Canadian gold mining companies though. Surely, as
the loonie falls, the cost of production of these mines must also fall.
The problem is the pog has fallen too. The loonie has dropped about
6.5% since the beginning of the year, whole gold has dropped about
4.5% from its most recent highs. The differential is too small to
matter I guess.

WGC has a large ad on Page C22 of today's WSJ about "Gold Facts".
One of the points highlighted in the ad; "The U.S. continues to hold 57% of its reserve assets in gold ".

Peter Eliedes was on CNBC this am; very bearish. Look at his website
http://www.stockmarketcycles.com/current_observations.htm
Especially check out the chart. Predictions are down thru mid August, last rally up to September, then DOWWWWNNNNN toward end of October. According to him, Bradley is used by Jerry Favor, who has really been hot lately.
I am afraid that the gold stocks will be sucked into the maelstrom, and have decided to liquidate the last of my GOLDX over the next few days; gonna hold my CEF though.

Yesterdays SnP-up after a day of rather harsh losses nearly all over european stock exchanges would have given a positive signal of todays action in EU. Under usual conditions. But today is not a good day on most of the major continental exchanges. So it seems, as if continental players dont repeat slavish every move of the DOW. Maybe NYSE will correct yesterdays "wrong" move today.

What I see as far as AU is concerned - its cheap today in terms of continental money, cheaper than on most days this year. But I think Ill see it even cheaper in the near future. - Not, if Willies photos are really sharp.

Vronsky: Is it not better to eat dog food rather than "human food"
Seems to me that the last thing I read about "human food" was something that Jeremiah Lamented about his people having to eat their own.
None the less your point is taken.

Down Jones just entered the sub 9000 aerea. Log off, as long as my prediction is right. Good buy, united kitcoista.

the thing is taking off by itself.......!!

No, I'm just sitting here calmly and complacently. Clear mind.

Zen

OM MANI PADME OM....

Jtf may be your man. I can't habdle the intricacies of your explanation, but I think I know where you're heade. When you get ready, I would appreciate the result. Thanx. Charlie

WANNISKI LAMBASTES GREENSPAN!

Renown author, Economist and former Associate Editor of the Wall Street
Journal delivers a stinging attack on Fed Chairman Greenspan's policies
running the U.S. monetary system.

Mr. Wanniski's criticism states the Fed Chairman's myopic vision cannot seem to distinguish between Inflation and Deflation. Wanniski asserts onetime friend Greenspan is so obsessed with Inflation, he cannot see the U.S. - and indeed the World - being relentlessly pulled down into the maelstrom of Deflation. Wanniski views Greenspan as a Don Quixote "fighting" imaginary windmills - all while the Asian and U.S. economies are inexorably being sucked down the toilet of Deflation.

Wanniski accuses the Fed Chairman of forgetting that Greenspan once correctly used gold prices as the most accurate measuring stick for determining the levels of Inflation and Deflation.

Read the scathing Wanniski critique of Fed policies. It will be necessary to Delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before posting the URL to the Internet Finder:

http://www.golden-eagle.com/editorials_98/wanniski072898.html

We are being dragged sideways across the bottom of a muddy lake.

The Toronto Mining Issue McClellan Summation Index turned down yesterday. It is just below zero. This breadth indicator has been swinging back and forth with no real direction for weeks now. Until it moves up decisively, caution is advised for cautious investors.

The new lows on Toronto Mining issues have been steady at 14 to 20 issues per day. This also is not expanding, nor contracting. Less than 6 issues per day ( for several days ) is considered a safe level.

I track the ROC over three time periods for the price of gold. The 40 day is turning up, the 80 Day is still down and the 150 Day has turned up.

The Worden Brothers ( WG580 ) Gold Index ( broader than the XAU ) versus gold is very oversold at more than two standard deviations below normal. When a new extreme occurs in this indicator, I like to see the level hold for ten days without a more extreme reading. We have not had that yet. The last time that we were this oversold was Jan 12/98. Even greater oversold level were measured from Nov 10/92 through Dec 15/92. I have data back to Sept 92.

I am fully invested in gold shares, but accept the risk that this decline may not have bottomed at this point in time.

The 5 hour rsi is slightly oversold again 21%, The market should be flat for the next couple hours until a more neutral reading developes. 5.55 is no longer as important a number, if 5.40 basis dec is taken out on a close look for a quick additional 30 cents down.

I am getting rich real quick...Buying gold in U.S.A. at $290.00 and selling it in Canada for $435.00.
Next time I am going to sell in New Zealand can do better yet.

With calm indifference I detachedly note that silver has reached 5.68

In late today. Thanks for waiting. Okay, let's get this crate off the asphalt!

The TEN YEAR STOCK CYCLE IS FORMING A DOUBLE TOP--just like '87, '77, '67...etc. The AVERAGE BEAR MARKET lasts about 17-18 months and FALLS about 30%!! THIS one will be even GREATER in time and price because it is so GROSSLY OVERVALUED AND BECAUSE OF Y2K!

Yesterday's program trading after 1:00 PM was a most miserable and pathetic attempt to rally the most porcine, bloated and overvalued market in US history! What a joke! This morning's action confirms that it was a most wretched and miserable FAILURE! The broad market is ALREADY in a roaring BEAR and the DOW is soon to be swallowed whole! AUgust is the month for GOLD and yes fellow Kitcoites--THE NEW BULL MARKET IN GOLD HAS ALREADY BEGUN DESPITE THE FALSE STARTS AND TENTATIVENESS AND FORWARD SELLING AND MARKET MANIPULATIONS! The SHIFT FROM PAPER TO HARD ASSETS IS JUST BEGINNING! Remember the old German proverb, "Aller Anfang ist schwer!" "Every beginning is HARD!!" Heh..heh..heh.

CHEERS AND A TOAST FOR HIS DIZZINESS FAR AWAY IN THE RSA:

Long live NELSON MANDELASTEIN and his beautiful new bride, may they live and prosper in health and prosperity as long as the sun doth shine-- ( or until the currency is completely trashed ) ! YOU RAH RAH MAN-DE-LA! YOU RAH RAH MAN-DE-LA! YOU RAH RAH MAN-DE-LA! Scheiss! Boom! BAAH! HUMBUG!

By the way Dizzy, the DOW is DOW ( N ) again this morning 50 POINTS and FALLING as I speak, just like your WRETCHED RAND! GO RAND! HAR! HAR!

Don't look now, but BOTH GOLD AND XAU ARE UP ON THE DAY! GO GOLD!

Bemusedly I see that September silver has hit a new high for the morning. I turn and look out the window at a bird flying by.

er..um...5.69...em...er gollum...5.69...hows the 5.69 weater..er 5.69 where you 5.69 are...er em 5.69

I count each breath peacefully, I note with no real interest that a pale blue aura has begun to shimmer around me.

I would like to discuss this ancient animal some. How about email? Mine is cdevoto@abts.net Thanx, Charlie

Index is currently at 1929 !

http://www.usagold.com/Daily_Quotes.html

Y'all seem to have the basketball under control. If rr & co. want to keep the Tsy's and $ under control, there's going to have to be some hellacious rigging. Especially in view of the significant portion that is foreign. Is there a couple of sites that shows a detectable result of this rigging? Many thanx fot any help here, Charlie

We need some excitement here...dow down 70 ... everything else "standing still" ... like a deer in the headlights?

The TEN YEAR STOCK CYCLE IS FORMING A DOUBLE TOP--just like '87, '77, '67...etc. The AVERAGE BEAR MARKET lasts about 17-18 months and FALLS about 30%!! THIS one will be even GREATER in time and price because it is so GROSSLY OVERVALUED AND BECAUSE OF Y2K!

Yesterday's program trading after 1:00 PM was a most miserable and pathetic attempt to rally the most porcine, bloated and overvalued market in US history! What a joke! This morning's action confirms that it was a most wretched and miserable FAILURE! The broad market is ALREADY in a roaring BEAR and the DOW is soon to be swallowed whole! AUgust is the month for GOLD and yes fellow Kitcoites--THE NEW BULL MARKET IN GOLD HAS ALREADY BEGUN DESPITE THE FALSE STARTS AND TENTATIVENESS AND FORWARD SELLING AND MARKET MANIPULATIONS! The SHIFT FROM PAPER TO HARD ASSETS IS JUST BEGINNING! Remember the old German proverb, "Aller Anfang ist schwer!" "Every beginning is HARD!!" Heh..heh..heh.

CHEERS AND A TOAST FOR HIS DIZZINESS FAR AWAY IN THE RSA:

Long live NELSON MANDELASTEIN and his beautiful new bride, may they live and prosper in health and prosperity as long as the sun doth shine-- ( or until the currency is completely trashed ) ! YOU RAH RAH MAN-DE-LA! YOU RAH RAH MAN-DE-LA! YOU RAH RAH MAN-DE-LA! Scheiss! Boom! BAAH! HUMBUG!

By the way Dizzy, the DOW is DOW ( N ) again this morning 50 POINTS and FALLING as I speak, just like your WRETCHED RAND! GO RAND! HAR! HAR!

Don't look now, but BOTH GOLD AND XAU ARE UP ON THE DAY! GO GOLD!

I don't post here very often but thought I would go out on a limb.

It's probably not worth much, but I have a feeling in my guts that we are going to see a major correction ( 15-20% ) in the SP500 within the next 10 days, and this will drag the PM stocks with it.

But I belive the the PM stocks will rally from mid-Sept through to at least the end of the year.

I have converted all of my investments to cash ( as of today ) , and am waiting for the bargins of a life time in a month or so.

One day soon gold will be back in favour.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpne02.htm

http://www.bday.co.za/98/0728/company/c7.htm

Disney and Cheesehead; In a real gold bull all gold shares world wide will surge, but the SA shares will outperform the rest. As long as either the SA or NA shares are weak, it ain't a real gold bull.

Stop carping gentlemen and let's all act like ADULTS. Do not give the anti-gold forces more ammunition to accuse gold investors of being a bunch of kooks.

your quotes are stuck again....

Howze things down under?? Didju give up on J.D.'s SI site?? Where else yu hangin out?? I'm almost with yu on bein out of this crazy market. Talk to yu later, got to run errands,etc. Best Regards, Mtn Bear

All:

As the decline in US stocks becomes more forceful so does the decline in the US dollar. It could be that the never ending flow of foreign funds into US stocks and bonds is begining to abate. As the US current account deficit soars ever onward, this would be a most inopportune time for the rest of the world to lose its appetite for our paper.

The Dow declines. The paper dollar sinks. The heavier elements rise to the surface. Investment physics can be quite counterintuitive.

The fact that the market is breaking down despite the rampant bullishness of people like APH and Oldman with good forecasting recxords shows that NOBODY gets it right all the time. At key turning points many of the indicastors thst worked so well during the long bull suddenly become "inoperative" "Oversold" readings that triggered big rallies earlier in the bull no longer do so.

All: MEX.X down 3% today. Long term trend over last 6 months -- bearish. Perhaps we are seeing what will be in store for the US markets -- eventually.

Mike Stewart: WJC's fortunes and the US market's fortunes are probably linked ( Oldman thinks so - and my guess is that he is right ) .
My reasoning about gold is the following -- if the US markets go down, and the JOC,CRY0,DJSI indices head up -- gold will rally. But not until there is a whiff of inflation in prices priced in US dollars. Bearish or sidewise general equity behavior is not sufficient for gold equities to rally. And -- at the current time, I doubt there is any major currency that can effectively compete with the US dollar as a safe haven, IMHO. Exception: Possibly Austrian or Swiss currencies. Germany is rumored to be forced to raise rates soon -- I forget why. And -- Japan is still up in the air.
Comments from anyone?

July 28, 1998

Russia stocks rally as ministry scraps debt auction

MOSCOW ( Reuters ) - Russian stocks rallied in thin, volatile trading Tuesday after the Finance Ministry canceled a government debt auction scheduled for Wednesday.
http://www.freecartoons.com/ReutersNews/MARKETS-RUSSIA.html


July 28, 1998

Russian stocks fall as Yeltsin's plans bog down

MOSCOW ( AP ) -- Russia's stock market has suffered a sixth straight day of losses, reflecting traders' fears about whether the government can resolve internal disputes over how to address the country's economic crisis.

Stocks dropped by nine per cent Monday. Communists have resisted President Boris Yeltsin's financial-stabilization plan, which includes numerous tax-raising measures.

The standoff has again undermined confidence among both Russian and foreign investors. The Russian stock market's main index was down by 26 per cent since last week and more than 60 per cent so far this year.
http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.Russia-Economy.html

July 27, 1998

Duma's panel considers impeachment motion against Yeltsin

MOSCOW ( AP ) -- Russian President Boris Yeltsin's parliamentary foes accused him of treason Monday for his role in the collapse of the Soviet Union, seeking legal grounds to support an impeachment motion against him.

Several previous attempts to oust Yeltsin have failed, and this initiative is expected to meet the same fate. But the process begun by hardliners in Russia's lower house of parliament, the State Duma, could erode the government's authority and strengthen the Communist-led opposition.
http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.Russia-Impeachment.html

D.A.: I agree that the US dollar and the US markets should go together. If they go down, where does the investment money go?
Thanks in advance -- our current market scenario seems very different from the Oct 97 event -- seems bearish to me, rather than correction prone. Probably because WJC looks more and more like he is in the doghouse.

A real damper on the performance of silver stox on the TSE during this modest Ag rally of the past 10 days or so has been heavy selling by one small brokerage house in particular. One has to wonder about the financial state of some of these little and largely resource-based outfits, just as one has to wonder about the survival of marginally profitable or unprofitable miners. Could such brokerages be selling some of their own inventory to raise $$$? I don't know if that is so, but at least I'm sure the bonuses given out won't be anything like in 1996.

SIEG HEIL, MEIN FUHRER! But, of golf course, you're right! I should show more maturity and restraint than the Dizzy One, even when attacked in the wee hours of the morning! I keep forgetting about his growing senility! Off to buy some HARMONY as a peace offering by gar! Still cheering for a falling RAND, however, as that will be sure to get Rangy and Drooy off the mat and keep the gold bull chargin' ahead by gar! Can't have gold bull without them! Thanks for the reminder! I promise to do better in the future, unless the Dizzy One bites into the cheeze once too often! Then all bets are off by gar!

Now, off to the course while this wretched DOW sucks some more air! Some rally that was yesterday! Retraced the whole thing already and it's not even noon yet! Four!

To Rangy people.
Just received july issue World Gold put out by Mining
Journal ..
It says this ..

"... CAM, which owns 30% of Randgold will merge with
JCI Gold. CAM will merge with Rangold by the end of 1998.
Randgold Resources, Rangold's main asset if Durban Deep
is successful in its bid for Rangold's 50 % interest
in Crown Consolidated will then be held by JCI gold.
If appropriate RR will then be transferred to Western
Areas or sold Once the final composition of the combined
JCI GOLD/CAM/Randgold company is settled, the company
name will revert to JCI."

Generally speaking .. this does not appeal to me ..
I own some Randfontein .. and that's about as much
brett kebble as I can handle. I sold my rangy and
switched to avgold.

In recent history there have been three Bear markets: 1976, 1987, and 1990. Here is a comparison of gold prices before, during, and after those years:

Year Gold Price ( $/oz )
1975 161
1976 124 ( Market down 27% and gold down 30% )
1977 147 ( Gold up )

1986 367
1987 446 ( Market down 41%, gold up 36% )
1988 436 ( Gold down )

1989 381
1990 383 ( Market Down 27% and gold the same )
1991 362 ( Gold down )

Based on past data, if this is the bear of 1998, then I predict gold will either go down, go up, or stay the same.

I am only looking at annual numbers, perhaps there is a month-month Market/gold relationships that I don't see.

Croatia: IMF Warns Against Large Deficit

By Robert Lyle

Washington, 28 July 1998 ( RFE/RL ) -- Croatia has been given a sharp warning to deal quickly and decisively with its ballooning current account deficit.

The Executive Directors of the International Monetary Fund ( IMF ) told the government in Zagreb earlier this month that they were "seriously concerned" about Croatia's unsustainable large deficit which has risen to 12.5 percent of GDP.

The current account is the balance between all funds going into and out of a country other than capital investments.

Croatia's deficit has been growing because strong consumer demand, fueled by rapid wage growth and a surge in bank credit, has pushed imports up nearly 33 percent in the past year while exports remained static.
http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/1998/07/F.RU.980728135425.html

BULGARIAN PRESIDENT OPPOSES EMBARGO ON YUGOSLAVIA
President Petar Stoyanov told Leni Fischer, chairwoman of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, in Sofia on 23 July that if the international community decides to tighten sanctions against Belgrade, "we will be loyal." But he stressed that a new embargo on Yugoslavia will have a negative impact on Bulgaria's efforts at reforming its economy, ITAR-TASS reported. Fischer stressed the need to settle the Kosova conflict by taking into account the interests of both Yugoslavia and Albania, as well as those of neighboring countries. MS
http://www.rferl.org/newsline/4-see.html

Gollum:

Not wishing to disturb your tranquility I offer the following merely as an observation. Two weeks ago Aron and Co. were strong sellers of the 550 and 575 calls which expire tomorrow morning. Subsequently they purchased many of the 565's which expire two weeks from this Friday.

The inability of silver to achieve altitude may be associated with this tether. At 9.30 AM tommorrow, the rope will be cut. Perhaps then we shall fly once more.

I leave you with the following thought, recounted to me many years ago by a friend.

Deeply seeing it
I and other people
There is no difference
as there is no mind
beyond the mind

Ah so.

That which is unsaid is not so much

That which is said is nothing at all

The TAO pays no heed, but they're not going to pull the DOW out today. No indeedy.

just released silver and SSC
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=SILVW&d=t

For Old Gold ..
You got me all wrong OldGold .. I love this guy ..
I always had a weak spot for cheerleaders .. even in
my senility .. I said he looked cute .. I was being nice .
I do find that german accent a bit unnerving ..
but I can overlook that in one so adorable..
If you're worried about people thinking we're kooks ..
You're a bit late ..
Relax .. its fight night at the kitco bar and grill.

Tomorrow .. Ill tell you about a stock that has a
p/e ratio of 2.6 at the PRESENT exchange rate .. I once
calculated its costs of reserves at one dollar per
ounce .. But you musnt say bad things about my idiot
buddy nelson the man...dela .. after the third quarter..
the p/e will be about 1.5 to one ..

Any comments with regard to the systematic removal of 600K ounces/day of silver from COMEX warehouses? It seems someone may be following your plan, but at a smaller rate.

Do you know why the 600K ounces from COMEX stocks would be removed from Registered stocks, rather than elligible stocks?

Tick.....tick....tick

DOW ( N ) 180!!! Some rally! CHEEEEEEEZE!

I too have a hunch the stock markets will get clobbered to the tune of 20% by mid-August. No technical analysis - just a feeling of a gathering storm - gathered from a number of snippets of info here ( at Kitco ) and there ( in the Internet and business & political literature ) . I give it a wee bit longer than you - but we are in the same ballpark.
Further - I think we will get a second 20% wallop before Thanksgiving.

P.S. for whatever it is worth, my store sales will be down 20% for this July compared to last July. Other merchants and restaurants here are seeing similar numbers.

LIKE ANIMALS BEFORE AN EARTHQUAKE
we can not pin down why -
THE SHEOPLE MAY BE GROWING UNEASY.

Hmmm - methinks Kitco may be getting slow to respond.
I hate to hit the button twice - even after a minute or so.
For experience has told me that I will get a double post.
But - no response yet ( I can add stuff up until it posts )
Here goes torpedo #2...

the money keeps rolling in ...

Goldfields reported ..
key points june quarter vs March quarter
..
..gold output up 4 % to 758,000 ounces

.. unit costs down from 296 to 256 $/oz

.. operating profit up from 17 million to 207 million
Rand ..

.. those dogs leeudoorn and Libanon are almost in the
Black .. and will be in the third quarter

.. Evander making profits .. but now Harmony takes it

.. And another one Ill tell you of tomorrow

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/data/dbcfiles/indindext.htx?source=htx/http2_mw

FWIW Platinum leads the way ,DX ready to break 100,,bonds to
follow.Precious metals gearing up.Time to get aboard.
Gold price action indicates a price level of 340 November 10.
Platinum minimum 500.Have a good day.

Mike Stewart: Thanks for your comments at this site. I have a non-gold related question for you. If you would send your e-mail address to richard_burke@bc.sympatico.ca I would be grateful.

Interesting turn of events. I've seen they have been very conservative in their accounting these last few years, guess they're afraid of ever saying anything good lest it be held against them. IMHO

Just peacefully sits there between 5.66 and 5.68. Just in the interests of further enlightenment and without having any real concern at all I wonder if silver might be able to come up a nickel or so.

gagnrad something very great is at hand.... I feel it's going to be very painful for those who throw and have thrown money at these markets.

But remember that October is THE month for larger corrections.... 1929, 1973, 1987, et al....

Another reason that Inflation is a-comin: Uncle Sam will have to pay back all of those foreign investments with dollars that are worth far less than the borrowed value!

Long-term, Gold has no where else to go but UP! If you're in for a 3-6 month period, try a good old CD at the local bank. But for longer term, a drop of even $5 or $10 an ounce is no real concern.

Absolutely. Now look at bull and bear in the bond markets versus gold...

8800 here we come! DOW ( N ) 195 AND PLUNGING!!! GOLD @ 291.40 AND CLIMBING THE WALL OF WORRY! LEWINSKY HAS A TENTATIVE IMMUNITY DEAL! NEWS CONFERENCE @ 1:15 EDT! BYE! BYE! BC! DOLLAR! DISNEY and DOW! RUSSELL 2000 DOWN 8 @ a NEW LOW FOR THE YEAR! GET OUT THE CRYIN' TOWELS, BOOMERS!

IT'S OVER FOR AT LEAST 18 MONTHS!

July 28, 1998

Senate passes credit union membership bill

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - The Senate Tuesday passed legislation designed to ensure millions of consumers access to low-cost financial services through their credit unions.

By a vote of 92 to six, the Senate approved the legislation, which overrides a Supreme Court ruling and allows credit unions to take in members from differing groups.

"The credit unions have invested in people and communities when others would not," said Sen. Alfonse D'Amato, a New York Republican and strong supporter of the legislation. "We passed a good bill for working Americans."

Similar legislation passed overwhelmingly in the U.S. House of Representatives in April.

Credit unions are non-profit institutions that are able to offer low-cost financial services to about 74 million Americans, according to industry figures.,

In February, the Supreme Court ruled that credit unions have been expanding illegally for the past 16 years by taking in varying groups as members. That ruling put millions of current credit union memberships in jeopardy, credit union leaders said.

The legislation would allow credit unions to take in different groups as long as each group did not exceed 3,000 people. The bill also would add some bank-like regulations to ensure the financial safety of these organizations. For example, outside audits would be required at bigger credit unions.

Banking industry representatives, opposed to the legislation, maintained that credit unions have an unfair advantage over smaller community banks because they are tax-exempt.

"Credit unions have a tax subsidy exceeding $1 billion a year, and a hot dog vendor in any ball park pays more in Federal taxes than the entire credit union industry," said Bill Macmillan, president of the Independent Bankers Association.

The Senate set aside amendments that would have placed tough new limits on commercial lending and also an amendment that would have reduced requirements on the nation's smaller banks that they serve poor communities.

...................NOTE
In 1908 Pierre Jay, commissioner of banks in Massachusetts, became interested in cooperative credit as an alternative for poor people being preyed upon by loan sharks. He invited Alphonse Desjardins, a Canadian journalist who had promoted a form of credit association in Quebec called caisses populaires ( people's bank ) , to speak to a group of Boston leaders about spreading the idea in America.

Desjardins had learned about credit associations from leaders in England, France, and Italy; they had learned about them from Germany.

The first practical credit associations or credit unions was Hermann Schulze-Delitzsch, a German legislator. His cooperative credit societies, founded in 1805, were democratic, providing loans based more on the character of the borrower than on collateral. All loans had to be approved by two other members, and the lending period could not exceed three months.

About the same time, Friedrich Raiffeisen, mayor of a small town in Germany, started another form of credit association to help farmers struggling from the effects of famine. Raiffeiser's initial credit experiments were essentially charitable associations underwritten by wealthy merchants and citizens. They were neither cooperative nor democratic; the merchants decided who could join and who could get a loan.

FWIW Take Care.

http://www.sfgate.com/sf/zippy/

Limited immunity I can kind of understand. What is tentative immunity? Seems to me you got it or you don't.

Maybe it's immunity if you say what we want but not if you don't. Sounds like bribery.

NOW THIS IS HOW IT USED TO BE. DOW DOWN = METALS UP. LET'S SEE HOW LONG NORMALCY LAST.

EVEN THE S&P 500 is DOW ( N ) 23! Wiedersehen all you vaunted Index funds! Time to switch to something REAL!

Brass Balls

July 28, 1998

Senate passes credit union membership bill

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - The Senate Tuesday passed legislation designed to ensure millions of consumers access to low-cost financial services through their credit unions.

By a vote of 92 to six, the Senate approved the legislation, which overrides a Supreme Court ruling and allows credit unions to take in members from differing groups.

"The credit unions have invested in people and communities when others would not," said Sen. Alfonse D'Amato, a New York Republican and strong supporter of the legislation. "We passed a good bill for working Americans."

Similar legislation passed overwhelmingly in the U.S. House of Representatives in April.

Credit unions are non-profit institutions that are able to offer low-cost financial services to about 74 million Americans, according to industry figures.,

In February, the Supreme Court ruled that credit unions have been expanding illegally for the past 16 years by taking in varying groups as members. That ruling put millions of current credit union memberships in jeopardy, credit union leaders said.

The legislation would allow credit unions to take in different groups as long as each group did not exceed 3,000 people. The bill also would add some bank-like regulations to ensure the financial safety of these organizations. For example, outside audits would be required at bigger credit unions.

Banking industry representatives, opposed to the legislation, maintained that credit unions have an unfair advantage over smaller community banks because they are tax-exempt.

"Credit unions have a tax subsidy exceeding $1 billion a year, and a hot dog vendor in any ball park pays more in Federal taxes than the entire credit union industry," said Bill Macmillan, president of the Independent Bankers Association.

The Senate set aside amendments that would have placed tough new limits on commercial lending and also an amendment that would have reduced requirements on the nation's smaller banks that they serve poor communities.

...................NOTE
In 1908 Pierre Jay, commissioner of banks in Massachusetts, became interested in cooperative credit as an alternative for poor people being preyed upon by loan sharks. He invited Alphonse Desjardins, a Canadian journalist who had promoted a form of credit association in Quebec called caisses populaires ( people's bank ) , to speak to a group of Boston leaders about spreading the idea in America.

Desjardins had learned about credit associations from leaders in England, France, and Italy; they had learned about them from Germany.

The first practical credit associations or credit unions was Hermann Schulze-Delitzsch, a German legislator. His cooperative credit societies, founded in 1805, were democratic, providing loans based more on the character of the borrower than on collateral. All loans had to be approved by two other members, and the lending period could not exceed three months.

About the same time, Friedrich Raiffeisen, mayor of a small town in Germany, started another form of credit association to help farmers struggling from the effects of famine. Raiffeiser's initial credit experiments were essentially charitable associations underwritten by wealthy merchants and citizens. They were neither cooperative nor democratic; the merchants decided who could join and who could get a loan.

FWIW Take Care.

Anyone with current housing info in Garmisch pls e-mail me : smithlm@juno.com, wife has accepted a promotion and job in Garmisch I will retire again!! Thanks in advance Jere Smith

I kinda' like the sound of that cheer! Scheiss! BC can't even pardon her!

I'm using Netscape 4.0.5 on a PowerMac.
Reload sometimes just reloads from cache.
If I go to Preferences, advanced, and purge the cache
then the next reload forces it to fetch new data from Kitco.
Then I get a recent graph - if Bart's charts are up to date.

ARMS INDEX has now risen past the 1.50 level to 1.71 indicating that sentiment has just turned around 180 degrees from overly BULLISH to overly BEARISH! Might be a short ( and I mean short ) term bottom for the day trader!

Here's some old news:

11:40 [SI=U8] SEPTEMBER SILVER RISES 4 CENTS AS THE U.S. DOLLAR WEAKENS VS. JAPANES YEN.

Breakout of the XAU !
Go Au

Does the ARMS index have something to do with the price of guns?

Rush to cover...tis the question folks.

Tom

But I wish it did by gar! Dow makin' another feeble rally attempt as ARMS INDEX comes back to 1.59! GOLD AND XAU, HOWEVER, PICKING UP STEAM!

This will mean the flight to QUALITY IS NO LONGER INTO BONDS BUT CASH AND GOLD!!!!!

On the way down major stop-loss orders were hit at 1.7780 and 1.7750. The decline is the result of a horrible day for U.S. stock market, DOW down 175, and sterling/mark weakness.

Market down!

Gold up!

XAU up!

Yippee!

Next stop: GOLD!

What will happen to Clinton?
What will happen to the dollar?
What will happen to the stock market?
What will happen to corporate earnings?
What will happen to the trade deficit?
What will happen to budget deficit?
What will happen to my job?
What will happen to my mutual funds?
What will happen to my pension funds?
What will happen to my housing values?
What will happen to my adjustable rate credit card balances?
What will happen to Russia, Asia and the IMF?
What will happen to RR and AG?
What will happen with Y2K?

Scheiss! BETTER BY SOME GOLD!

Heilige!

http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/newsid_140000/140581.stm

When the ship goes down, It's Paper and TBills first, gold is already on the bottom.

Thanks Vronsky.

Earl, in pondering the socialist dielectic you might read Vronsky's link re the Russian dillemna. He's hit the mark exactly when he finds that they just don't have anything the rest of the world wants. IMHO

Socialism/Communism/Liberalism does have two majors product which it produces with uncanny efficiency and skill. These are useless paperwork covering every contingency known to mankind. The second is lists of trivial and mutually exclusive laws, regulations and prohibitions. Together these two products can turn a burgeoning economy into a morass of ever deepening ( with respect to chas ) Auroch Sh!t. IMHO

Yesterday I was at the building supply store buying a toilet tank to replace a cracked old one. The lady asked me if there was anything else she could do for me and I humbly suggested she write the EPA and tell them that the 1.6 gallon tanks suck. She laughed and said she'd be happy to. IMHO

So when people stop wanting to buy US goods at any price remember this. IMHO

And Europe going on holiday next week?

148 points.

and it is wonderful... http://www.lehmans.com/

WILL BC TESTIFY OR WON'T HE!
WILL HE APPEAR IN COURT WITH MONICA OR WON'T HE!
WILL KEN STARR PRESS FOR IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS, OR WON'T HE?
WILL THE DEMOCRAT CONGRESSMEN SUPPORT HIM OR WON'T THEY?
WILL BC SURVIVE OR WON'T HE?

Until these questions are answered, the money will stop pouring in and the smart money will start coming out!

FULL TRANSACTIONAL IMMUNITY IF MONICA TESTIFIES TRUTHFULLY AND FULLY!

WHAT?!?!?!?

GOLD, OIL, PALLADIUM, VODKA, CAVIAR, WIVES and, oh yes, NUCLEAR WEAPONS!

Is Abby Cohen still bullish? Anybody heard from her lately.

NEW YORK, July 28 ( Reuters ) - Wall Street stocks extended their losses in early afternoon trading Tuesday, the slide greased by worries about the Lewinsky affair engulfing the White House again, adding to an already bearish stocks brew.
``It's pretty much some nervousness concerning the potential Clinton troubles here,'' said Chris Dickerson, a market analyst at Global Market Strategists

J: Gold has NEVER been this cheap relative to stocks at the beginning of previous bears. 1929 and 1973 were the closest. And look what POG did during the horrendous stocks bears of the 1930s and 1970s.

Abby said last week ( Monday, before the crash started ) that the Dow would be up another 15-20% by yearend.....via a "special" alert to friends of Goldman Sachs........you know the rest.

I can't lose bet for an ounce of platinum or the shaving of the moustache...Hmmmmmmmmm...grrrrrrrrr...I LOST BIG TIME...but at least they got me drunk as a Lord...go gold, please...squeak!

IF IT BREAKS 1.00 TO THE DOWNSIDE THE RALLY WILL BE OVER AND THE PLUNGE TO NEW LOWS WILL CONTINUE!

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980728/kinross_go_1.html

Looks like Abby Cohen's reputation as the forecaster who is never wrong has just gone down the toilet. Talk about arrogance and overconfidence! She puts the likes of Napoleon to shame. And her end will be no better.

13.43.
1. Yes ( he has no choice )
2. No
3. No ( Congress makes that decision )
4. No. ( They're already deserting him ) .
5. No.

( Of course, I may be wrong ) . Pretty serious stuff

Is holding rangy stoooopid, IYHO? thanks for the updates, as always. studio.

near you soon...SALUD' TEQUILA...

Analyst Clif Droke has been warning about the looming BEAR for weeks.
And here come da bear here come da bear!

In his report yesterday he cautioned "A fall below the next closest support level of 8850 would all but annul this possibility and would give us good reason to believe a bear market is in fact underway." Welllll, as I speak the dwindling DOW is DOWN 167 POINTS TO 8861..

Here come da BIG BAD BEAR.

Analyst Droke makes some very interesting downside projections - which
may be seen at the following URL - YEP, it's necessary to delete the
extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before pasting the URL to your Internet locator:

http://www.golden-eagle.com/gold_digest_98/droke072798.html

DOW ( N ) 150 with the ARMS INDEX @ 1.43 and climbing!

http://www.heritage.org/heritage/library/execmemo/

I don't think Simon Bolivar had a moustache! Andele!!!! AY! YA! YA! YA!!! ( bang ) ( bang ) ( bang ) Vayan con Tequila!!! ( gulp ) ( gulp ) ( gulp ) ... ( bang ) ( bang ) ( bang ) ....AY!!! YA!!! YA!!!! YA!!!!

We got him!! If he gets out of this, we will all be eating blivits. Give Starr his credit.

index ? Thanks for response.

When I was stationed at Baden-Soelingen, I made many trips there with my wife. Great skiing a scenery. When we went there in the early 80,s the U.S. Army operated several hotels for r&r & we could get a comfortable room there for around $10. I found the cost of civilian accomodation very reasonable in Baden when I was there. In fact, even though we got around $600. Cdn foreign allowance we were able to live there more cheaply than Canada. We travelled all over Europe & N. Africa & managed to save a substantial amount over there. I would think that with the strong $U.S. you will be able to get good accomodation at a reasonable price & do very well financially there. Of course, if the GBs fondest dreams are realized the $U.S. will decline by 50 % & then it won't be so great ( smiley}.
Good luck. I envy you.

Yep! But the Dog of Waterloo was better lookin'!!!! Salud!

issues here for the following reasons.
It looks like Starr has WJC in his headlights and if Congress votes to impeach, what does that do for the succession issue ? Does that mean that Gore would "step up", because there are also many questions surrounding him ( I'm trying to be kind, tolly man ) . Also, if that were to happen, who would become the Veep ? Given that there is only two years left in WJC's term, does this mean we will have two years of Constitutional Crisis ?

I think it's a real question that needs to be asked.

is not having a good day at the White Motel.

A market sentiment index which measures the ratio of bullish upticks ( adavncing stocks ) to bearish downticks ( declining stocks ) .Generally speaking below 1.00 is BEARISH! Generally speaking above 1.50 is BULLISH! And the more extreme the ratio the bigger the move in either direction!
Next to TICK, the best indicator I know of! Sure is working today! DOW DOWN 200 AND PLUNGING!

John Disney__A I would appreciate if you could post the site that shows Goldfields june results. Thanks. Regards Goldteck.

ENDURING WORDS

Of all the myths out of which the Republic was
born ... none was more hopeful than the crowning
myth of the Presidency -- that the people, in
their shared wisdom, would be able to choose the
best man to lead them. From this came a
derivative myth -- that the Presidency ... would
make noble any man who held its responsibility.
The Office would burn the dross from his
character; his duties would, by their very weight,
make him a superior man ...  --Theodore H. White
on the fall of Richard Nixon, and the Presidency.

It appears to me that the trigger for a "market correction", if indeed this is the beginning of one, would have been a DOW-to-Gold AND S&P500 PE ratio of 30 each. Could this be the bi-modal high water mark ? A common link ? Smarter folks than I are encouraged to comment.

Abby, you're uglier than a mud fence! Have a nice day.

destroyed by accident. So if I have not replied such was not my intention...if I had another brain it would truly die of loneliness...

the Semiconductor Index is up.
All the other major market indexes are down.
This anticyclical behaviour of gold and silver, long expected and long waited for, will help to build positive momentum.
One or two more such days and the funds will buy mining stocks, I guess.

Will the stock market work towards a crash in August already?
I thought crashes happen in October. Maybe this is just a prelude for what will come in October.

AG will be the great financial genius in the eyes of the public, because he has warned so strongly for this to happen. He can now only gain prestige. When things go well, and when all these 21st century economists lick their wounds, he can use his prestige and prescribe a "romantic, nostalgic" recipe.

Charlie, what do you think?

I think he will do it. But not because he is such a nice guy. He will do it, because his bosses from the financial oligarchy know that the great and profitable area of fiat currency is done for quite a while. Gold will save the situation. They have had a good time to buy it for almost nothing ( i.e., for money, which they created out of thin air ) .

Finding wood/coal stoves that can cook stuff is made harder
because the EPA insists on recirculating the gases.
Checked with a local stove dealer - because of EPA
they can't sell real stoves that you can fry eggs on.
Maybe they have not looked hard enough.

Maybe Lehmans has some - or did have some.

Reading your recent posts over the last 2 hours, I have come to the conclusion that you severely underestimate the powers that be.
I am surprised at your naivete.

IF this stays at this level and goes higher a closing rally MAY be in the offing!

it is the better path...to be kind...a gulp to ya...cheers for a noble thought...

Could'nt happen to a better collection of greedy pond scum. And poor little Abby. There she was on the merry-go-round bobbing up & down & she tried so hard to grab the gold ring, but she's such a tiny, perfect, little girl that she just did'nt have the reach.

The feelings are mutual, mein Herr! Go play with your angels! You may need them before the close!

Where do you get your intraday numbers for ARMS and Tick?

Calmly I sit on high and lofty hill
My heart is calm, with mind grown still
Chaos is the winds sighing in the pines
Fears are the stars in orderly lines

Does the DOW go down with cries of despair?
Is that an ant crawing in my hair?
Thoughts easily come and easily dismissed
Another day takes form from the mist

Peace can be found in war's great din
If one but knows to look within
today the times are not as before
the past will return nevermore

Right off the OLD CNBC TICKER AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN ABOUT EVERY 5-10 minutes!

Imagine that! DOW ( N ) 210! NASDAQ DOW ( N ) 38!

I wouldn't count the market as dead yet. Neither would I count WJC as done, YET. Isn't this the part where the cat plays with the mouse before the cat eventually gets around to killing the mouse? Come on. You know how cats love to play with their 'trophy' before dispatching it. Especially well fed cats... Oh, we need one more ingredient for gold to go, some positive inflation numbers with Greenspan murmuring something about, "I told you so!"

Basically, that tells everything about this market.

The general rule is: 40 new lows or more and the market is on shaky ground.

Now look at these numbers above: this happened yesterday in spite of the DOW gaining 90 points.

I have the impression, this market has completely turned around. The real crash is near.

lay off those ludes.......or them prozacs! Put your bifocals on sir! that "ant" is a fiddleback! ( bang ) ( bang ) ( bang ) AY!! YA!!! YA!!! YA!!! Salud!

$TICK and $TRIN will get you those numbers from most quote sights like www.dbc.com or pcquote.com or schwab.com.............

to go.

DOW ( N ) 170!

Remember, when financial markets crash, most people are too busy trying to save their money! Buying gold is not exactly at the top of the list of things to do. Now, make the markets gyrate up and down violently and throw in some political uncertainty ( Bonds? ) in one of the most stable countries of the world along with a dose of time... Then you've got something for gold, a safe haven.

Clinton manevours this time around, he is searching for options to testify in writing as opposed to face to face stating that Tom Jefferson did it this way.

Lindsey is a keeper of secrets, if he is broken or swayed then Clinton is finished.

This is not the time. The market is still showing strength, all things considered. Old Gold once said that the crash would not happen until fall. I am beginning to believe that senario. -c

http://www.schwab.com/SchwabNOW/SNLibrary/SNLib041/SN041.html

Panda: Thanks for the tick and trin.

Cheesehead: I long ago stopped watching CNBC. Too much emotionalism involved in watching the market's every gyration.

The 30 to 1 ratio is as
good as any to hang one's hat on. It measures an extreme movement.
And it also measures psychology which is also at an extreme. And it
measures internal forces ( market positions ) which "allow" such
extremes to exist.

Following such an extreme I would expect an oposite extreme to
take place with a ratio lower than 1 to 1. While that is hard to
see, how many of you predictied that City Corp. from its low of 9 in
1991 would hit a high of 180 in 1998? Not me. But it happened.

It is interesting to me that the banks did so well and the golds
so badly during the same time frame. It does lead one to believe in
the gold/dollar war does it not?

Will truth win out? Will gold come to the forground? I LOVE
metaphors. If BC represented the moneied establishment via Rubin and
Americas "love of money" and greed at any cost ( which I believe he did )
then iF Starr gets Clinton.......that's the end of the extreme and
the beginning of the ' BIG SNAP BACK"!!!!!!!!!

GO GOLD YOU ARE TRUTH, HONESTY AND FAITHFUL.

THANKS, GD

AUGUST GOLD @ $291.70 at the close! Looks like rally attempt is beginning to fizzle out! Watch out for SELL PROGRAMS AT THE CLOSE! IF SO--NEW LOWS!
MCCURRY FENDIN' OFF THE WOLVES AS DOW RALLY FADES INTO THE SUNSET! DOW ( N ) 180!

IS THAT SOMETHING LIKE DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION ALA' ANIMAL HOUSE?

a rama rama ding dong! you goudas it gets. Salud!

I was sitting here pondering that very question. I think he wants to be able to say- i told you to think about gold. Because of its inherent value, you can solve the exchange problem and keep a currency stable. Trouble is , he slid it in without any exclamation and it went by everybody. His nostalgia should be towards gold, but so far he has not made a distinguishinf statement. There is time for him to move, but not much. It depends on who his bosses really are.
That move in the Dow yesterday was a feeble attempt to lead everybody back up. It's an old trick to get the dow up so distribution can take place. They don't mind losing some on the bait to make a bunch on the sales. Don't forget-- you got to get them up to sell. Get them down to buy.

I am not one who thinks the market will crash in the immediate future. But the bear has begun. The trend is down. Rallies should be sold. And prices will be much lower by fall. As renowned economic historian JK Galbraith said recently ( I am paraphrasing ) -- speculative binges do not end with a wimper, they end with a crash.

BTW, the fact that bonds are not rallying as stocks plunge should be EXTREMELY DISCONCERTING to anyone still under the illusion that this is just another buying opportunity.

The Dow Industrials and some moving averages. Pretty basic stuff. If we take out the 200 DMA decisively, then we can entertain bear market stuff. Anything less is the purview of day-traders.

RALLY JUST ABOUT OVER! DOLLAR INDEX READY TO BREAK 100 TO THE DOW ( N ) SIDE!
T-BOND READY TO CRASH THROUGH SUPPORT @5.75! OIL HOLDING ABOVE 14 and XOI COMING BACK ABOVE 430!

You're right, of course! BUT, THIS BULL MARKET WASN'T CONFIRMED IN A DAY AND NEITHER WILL THIS GROWLING BEAR BE CONFIRMED IN A DAY! PATIENCE, MENSCH, PATIENTIA! ALL IN DUE TIME! THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS WE'RE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION! Nicht wahr?

Hi, I'm back. Anything happening?

It's about that time...Try to keep it under 3 digits.

away ?

While you were filing your flight plan and playfully munching on a zagnut, our damn DC 3 was stolen. Now What, Cappy?

NASDAQ AIN'T BUDGING! STILL DOWN 30 and change!

get it up so we can sell on the close!

We'll have to check the COMEX totals when they come in, but I don't like how weak silver is looking. It should be up a little more in comparison to gold than it is.

Gold rally scheduled for tomorrow.

Fund managers should have whatever cash they were able to salvage available to do some buying.

BID $70-$80! DOWN FROM $85-$92! Looks like a BEAR MARKET IN CLINTON OPTIONS TO ME!

CAN U BELIEVE IT! AND AN INCREASE IN STOCK DIVIDEND TO BOOT! HAVE THESE PAPER GUYS NO SHAME? SORRY GUYS! IT MIGHTA' WORKED ON THE WAY UP! BUT NOT ON THE WAY DOWN!

Oil looks to be mounting a comeback.

There were some aboard the Titanic, who thought she was unsinkable even as she took on water. Current market volitatly indicates there are some who, like the dening few aboard the Titanic, still don't belive the market will correct. The markets captin Allen Greenspan has already informed the crew, she's going to sink. The only unknown variables now are: when and how deep.

Very good article from mainstream media;

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9807/27/millennium.survivalists.reut/

What if the POWERS THAT BE suddenly come to the conclusion that BC is dead meat and NOW is the time to PULL THE PLUG on him and his friends? What better way to do it than sink the DOW, the DOLLAR and the ECONOMY?

Mabe later on small caps will rock and roll with a little more inflation.

FWIW until DX is breaking 100 there is no breakdown in bonds
or in the stocks we came close for the second time today.
A reversal is called for tomorrow ,have a nice day.

Looks like she's been through a meat grinder.

why not kill two birds with one stone? Hm!

to the CFR, Trilateral COmmission, Inner Circle, Illuminati,
Rothchilds, and X-Files Cigarrette-Smoking Man:

sink the Dow and Clinton too.

That is all.

Your General

OH YEH! APPARANT SETTLEMENT OF ONE OF TWO GM STRIKES!

Is doing it.

Be there in late October or be square.

John that is CNBC in 1 minute.

How convenient! ARMS NOW AT 1.10 and FALLING!

RALLY ABOUT OVER FOR TODAY! DISTRIBUTIUON ON AN UP MORNING TOMORROW!

The PPT must have been told to save the Dow at all costs --

-- and that means they are buying up the market with newly minted numbers. Do not doubt that THEY will do ANYTHING to save their misserable hides. Remember, NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, has oversight of the Federal Reserve and their Wall Street proxies ( or is it the otherway around? ) - if the Fed wants to say: "OK Goldman-Sachs, you've got an instant $50 billion -- buy up futures ... stocks ... they can bloody well do it ) .

Conclusions:

#1 The PPT ( FedGov ) will end up own most of the stocks.

#2 All the boomers/yuppies/funds cashing out will buy tangibles ... hence massive inflation.

Spud

Transactional immunity is complete and total. She cannot be prosecuted for anything, even items not related to this ( including parking tickets ) . It is the best level of immunity you can get. Given rarely.

Sing baby sing. Burn BC at the stake.

Today, God help me IBM. My ship is either going to sink from the weight and I will drown or, maybe I will displace enough water such that I am left with my own little island.

Opened me a bottle of bubbly...if it doesn't happen at least I will be happy.

Hey, tolerant1 picking up any of that TTRIF on the cheap? I think I saw you were holding this stock some where's back.

Go gold.

Thanks, fat finger hit wrong key before I could say anything, We have been there several times on vacation, always said if we had a Chance to live there we could jump at it. Wife will work for the George C. Marshall Stratigic Study Center. We will have a Cost of living allowance and housing allowance indexed to the DMark so if the $ goes south it wont hurt much. Garmisch is one of the truely beautiful place on earth.

401k'er won't re-evaluate dispensation of their deduction for 4th quarter '98 until September. Crash in October. It's precedented.

By Jove I think you've got it.

Tis time no bull.

SILVER
( Quoted in Troy Ounce )
DEPOSITORY
SCOTIA MOCATTA
Prev. Received Net Chg Total
Total Withdrawn Adjust. Today
R 2,380,444 0 0 0 0 2,380,444
E 384,876 0 0 0 0 384,876
T 2,765,320 0 0 0 0 2,765,320

MORGAN GUARANTY
R 15,238,545 0 610,579 -610,579 0 14,627,966
E 6,142,342 0 0 0 0 6,142,342
T 21,380,887 0 610,579 -610,579 0 20,770,308

REPUBLIC NATIONAL ( New York )
R 22,034,442 0 0 0 0 22,034,442
E 22,895,871 0 0 0 0 22,895,871
T 44,930,313 0 0 0 0 44,930,313

REPUBLIC NATIONAL ( Delaware )
R 152,315 0 0 0 0 152,315
E 7,983,635 0 0 0 0 7,983,635
T 8,135,950 0 0 0 0 8,135,950

WILMINGTON TRUST
R 0 0 0 0 0 0
E 3,060,486 0 0 0 0 3,060,486
T 3,060,486 0 0 0 0 3,060,486
--------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL REGISTERED
39,805,746 0 610,579 -610,579 0 39,195,167
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
40,467,210 0 0 0 0 40,467,210
COMBINED TOTAL
80,272,956 0 610,579 -610,579 0 79,662,337
--------------------------------------------------------------


( c ) Copyright 1998 FWN

Oops. That was yesterday's. Sorry pals.

Sell gold rallys. 10.00 lower. Says Oil has bottomed.

the DOW to avert a crash and end up owning all the shares of America's
biggest blue chips, while the boomers cash out and spend us into
hyperinflation. This is a pleasant scenario for gold, but might I
point out a slight inconsistancy here. You are saying that the
government of the bastion of free enterprise and unregulated capitalism is going to end up owning the means of production, in order to save
capitallism from its own excesses. How ironic! Capitallism using
Marxism to save itself!

Bill O'Neill ( Futures Trade, Merrill Lynch ) says on CNBC that Gold still has $10 to go on the downside. Says sell any $5 rally. Seems to me ML was one of those predicting $250 gold not too long ago??? The picture may be changing after all. Think I may try a little of that $5 rally! Here's hopin'!!!

BUT LOOK AT THE DAMAGE IN THE NASDAQ! DOWN 37.37!!! MORE DISTRIBUTION COMING TOMORROW MORNING! A/D LINE IS A TOTAL DISASTER!

Sorry 'bout that, didn't mean to double post yu, hadn't seen yours. Yeh, I meant to mention the "oil bottom". That is another one I will wait for confirmation on!!

I took your advice, played with my angels,and look what happened.
Now ain't that a coincidence ?

IF DOW ( N ) 93.46! NASDAQ DOW ( N ) 37.38! And S&P DOW ( N ) 17.13 gives you and your angels comfort cause it wasn't as bad as it could have been, I'll be anxious to see how you feel by the end of the week! Maybe Amazon.com and its ilk will all announce 5 Billion Dollar buy-backs and the settlement of a Billion dollar strike to keep their hides from being skinned alive, but don't hold your breath! AD LINE 15,000 away from its old peak! Earnings are catching up with reality and there ain't nothing you or your angels can do to stop it!

I would ahve agreed with Bill O'Neil a few days ago. But now WITH ALL US FINANCIAL ASSSETS -- BONDS, STOCKS, AND THE DOLLAR -- coming under pressure we may not get that final gold washout after all.

Nikkei futures up modestly today as US stocks tanked. Still looks like a nascent bull in Japan as a severe bear gets underway here. These two markets have moved in opposite directions for a long time. And this divergence will continue.

interesting times

The generals are in FULL RETREAT!

You are correct sir, Me and my angels or your angels cant do anything to
stop it, but the POWERS THAT BE can stop it and they will. Clinton will
wiggle his way out of this mess and all will be fine. Watch and see.
All due respects HERR CHEESEHEAD.I kinda like you.

Kinda' like you too! Slobber! Slobber! LICK! LICK! Just don't agree with you on this one! In the fullness of time, mein Freund! Wiedersehen!

Rhody, despite what you and I were taught in grade school, we do not live in a capitalist world, a socialist world, a communist world, a Marxist world, a free-world etc.

We live in a world controlled by thugs ( politicians ) who variously palm themselves off as "freedom-loving", "of the people", etc& etc&.

As long as the great milling masses swallow the party-line swill & believe in the magic words, all is well, all is well.

When, however, the game is finally played out, when the thugs' ( politicians ) who have lived the good life promises are revealed as lies, then they drop their mask of civility ... their pretense of obeying the Law ... their lip service to the Constitution and they are revealed for what they truely are: thugs, perverts, cowards and conartists.

We are nearing time to invoke Article 1776, aka The Declaration of Independance, being careful to replace the words "King" with "The Federal Reserve".

Spud

To audit them?

When have they EVER been honestly & independantly audited?

Who can say WHAT they really do?

Spud

to star in a new motion picture entitled, REVENGE OF THE GONADS! RATED X!

Didn't see it posted here yet, so.....

Dow/Gold Ratio = 30.68. The 50 day moving average is 30.65

XAU/Spot Ratio = .228. The 50 day moving average is .243. There have been 27 occasions where the XAU closed in the 66.XX range. Ranked according to the gold price, today is #23. The #1 ranking was on August 6, 1986, with a gold price of $360.80, an XAU of 66.24, producing an XAU/AU ratio of .184

Gold/Silver Ratio = 51.36. The 50 day moving average is 55.11

Whoa! Down 1.6 mil? Not seeing the numbers from usual source ( Futuresource ) yet. Where'd you get yours?

Spot gold $293.59; spot silver $5.33; XAU 71.56

If we'd stop bailing-out Chase, JP Morgan, BOA, et al, we could build ourselves an ABM system. Humph! And redundancy to boot.

You know, I'm gettin' mighty sick of those "spooks" always droppin' the damn ball! What the heck are they doing, anyway? Aaaaah! Too much watching, not enough investigating! That's what it is.

By the way, no matter what the die-hards say, the Brits have chiseled this one in stone. And that's good enough for me. It's The Night of the Grizzly, and I ain't no Clint Walker.

Now, where's that list of commodities funds I had layin' around here....

Following up the post of this am, and trying to put a time-line on the impending bear, I find that the chart shown with Peter Eliedes article is probably as close a prediction as I would care to make; never mind the astrological bent of his sources. ( Have to admit I have a problem with Astrology and the market. ) The chart shows: Peak July 20-29
( here and now ) ; descending wave to August 8-21; ascending rally to September 1; then Downnnn to September 17-18. He puts a block of time "Period of maximum vulnerability" from the September 1 rally peak, to October 16-17. This all seems to fit in with how things are unfolding this week, YES??? He isnt saying any thing about gold, but If gold
does decouple here and we get a decent rally while the market tanks, I may become a BELIEVER!! The article is at:
http://www.stockmarketcycles.com/current_observations.htm
The chart is at:
http://www.stockmarketcycles.com/images/Prediction-Graph.gif
Different subject sort of: Anyone else think gold and oil may start to be "joined at the hip"?

Spot gold $303.19; spot silver $5.57 ( its 5th consecutive day above the 233 ) ; XAU 81.08; Dow/Gold Ratio 27.71

Who do I contact if so?

Sam__A ( not sam! )

My broker calls me with them as soon as they come in.

sam__A ( not sam! )

Spud Master ..
You have a vision and you see it as it is. The
difference between the ANC thugs and the USA
establishment thugs is
1. the ANC has a great deal LESS control over the
country then the US thugs do and much less control
over the press and ..
2. Since the ANC are really a petty bunch of no talent
jerks .. they are happy with and settle for much LESS.

The US and the European Political Leaders want almost
total power .. and privelege..

On a different note, Ill believe
Clinton is done when I see it. That
is one slippery bugger.

During the stock Bears starting in 1929 Gold did well thrugh the decade:
Year Gold Price/oz
1929 20.63
1930 20.65
1931 17.06
1932 20.69
1933 26.33
1934 34.69
1935 34.84
1936 34.87
1937 34.79
1938 34.85
1939 34.42

During the Bear of 1976 Gold went nuts ( bad and good depending on individual timing ) for a decade:
1975 161.02
1976 124.84
1977 147.71
1978 193.22
1979 306.68
1980 612.56
1981 460.03
1982 375.67
1983 424.35
1984 360.48
1985 317.26

During the bear of 1987 Gold didn't mostly stayed the same for a decade ( if you take inflation into account it did poorly ) .
1986 367.66
1987 446.46
1988 436.94
1989 381.44
1990 383.51
1991 362.11
1992 343.82
1993 359.77
1994 384
1995 384.17
1996 387.77

If there is a direct relationship between stock market bears and gold prices, please point it out to me.

RANGY is stuck below $1. Is this just because no demand due to
uncertain future as to what is going to happen? Is JCI the final
owner of RANGY? IF JCI and CAM and RANGY all join how do you see this
as a benefit and how much of one?

Thanks for any insights you want to share.

GD

Although I still see a near term run up to DOW 9150 +/- 50 pts., the stock market is in deep kimchee. GOLD? To quote EB, "280 before 300."

With all this negativity going on in the markets......one would think that the price of gold and the companies that mine them would be up substantially. I guess it would take a recession or a war to make that happen

Silver should be making it's next leg down very soon. Tomorrow's buy points or reverse are: Basis Sept. Buy 50% position between 5.50- 5.45, buy the second 50% between 5.40-4.35. Use a 5.30 stop. If the market goes under 5.30 it could go to 4.80 or lower. Good Luck

Crystal ball:

Want to risk a one ounce golden eagle on the proposition. 300 before 280.

Let me see if I can convey this . . .

Been charting silver going back to last quarter of '96 -- all simpleton stuff, moving averages, et al. One method I like, based on the premise that a large price move is preceeded by a turnaround comprising small price moves, charts price momentum. For example, to calculate 5-day momentum ( 5-d. mm ) , simply subtract today's price from the price of five days ago. When charted, this yields a pattern oscillating above and below zero -- zero, in theory, denoting either buy or sell signals, depending on direction ( a somewhat modified stochastic indicator, if I'm understanding stochastics correctly ) .

The Analysis --

Anyway, only three time since late-September '97 have the 5-day, 10-day and 30-day momentum moving averages ( mm MAs ) risen above zero all at once. For instance, in late-September '97, the 5-d. mm MA and 30-d. mm MA were already over zero when the 10-d. mm MA rose to zero. The next day Silver shot up 40 cents.

The second of the past three times all momentum moving averages rose above zero was in December '97. At that time, the 10-d. and 30-d. were already over zero, and it was the 5-d. mm MA that kicked in from below. Within three or four days, Silver spiked up 65 cents.

The third of the past three times all momentum moving averages rose above zero was around February 1, 1998 ( note: *before* W.B.'s silver purchase announcement ) . At that time, the 5-d. and 30-d. were already over zero, and it was the 10-d. mm MA that hit zero from below. Within a week or so ( and surely fueled by W.B.'s announcement ) , Silver had rocketed $1.80.

Okay, that brings us to the reason for this post. As of now ( all raw data charted from the London PM fix, btw ) , both the 5- and 10-d. mm MAs are over zero. The 30-d. mm MA has been rising steadily and will touch zero TOMORROW.

Conclusion: 40-cent rise tomorrow; or rise of 65 cents by Friday; or rise of a dollar or more ( perhaps much more ) by next Wednesday, August 5 or so.

Or not. But that's what this chart shows.

Just noticed APH and I are diametrically opposed on Silver. Don't know how much I care for that -- a novice on the other side of a master. . . .

If you're comfortable with your stuff use it. Along with good money management. Don't depend on me or anyone else, we all come up with our losers. If you have a good money management plan you'll do fine.

Silver futures up .03 to 5.70.. APH, I am not convinced that you will even get in to short .. it might be up up and away .. if comex is really down another 1.6 MM ounces....eh?

http://www.e-analytics.com/index.htm
brief but comprehensive info concerning all types of equities, securities, commodities, futures, options, etc. If you don't have an all encompassing book, this might be a good place to start. -c

I'm already short Dec at 5.85. To cover the 2 losing trades I need 5.67 to break even.

which can be read on the golden-eagle web site makes good sense
except for one thing. Just how does the largest debtor nation go
to a gold backed system? Russia decided against it because there were
too many rubles to back. The US is in the same position. There is
no price for gold to be set at that would solve this situation.

Massive debts are accumulated or taken on with the assumption that
they will be paid off in money of lessor value. The govt. debts
included!!! A stable dollar at this time which is implied by gold
backing means certain bankruptcy for millions and millions including
the govt. They will NOT vote for their own demise!!!!!

I for one do NOT believe Greenspan has anyting up his sleeve. I
think he hopes to get out before the s*** hits the fan. He is out
next April I believe. Mr. Greenspan is no golden night. No savior.

We have to save ourselves. GO GOLD.

Thanks, GD

difficult to say things tongue in cheek. Politics, money, leverage,
manipulation, its all about power and not enough about morality.

REF: J ( Stock Bears and Gold )

See following URLs. As usual you need delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before pasting the URL to the Internet:

http://www.golden-eagle.com/editorials/great_crash.html

Whatever is left will be backed by gold out of necessity.

You are a gracious a magnanimous person, and certainly a good trader. I'm honored you would even address me. Appreciate the comment re. money management. Still figuring out stops ( your posts have helped a lot ) either just above or below resistence, depending on short or long. But how do you guage resistence, i.e., the other guys' stops? And do you have a rule of thumb for how far above or below your determined resistence you place your stops?

Back in the old days when they wanted to tar and feather some Tory rat and ride him out of town on a rail they had good old pine tar and real liquid asphalt which were nice and soft and sticky at such a low temperature that they wouldn't leave third degree burns. Nowadays all they have is that nasty stuff, solid until its heated really hot, approved for roofing and road work. No wonder we have so many politicians and lawyers! IMHO

Disclaimer: standard disclaimer applies. Plus, to all the various agency weenie lifers reading and looking for a sting this is a JOKE! No implied nor actual intention to tar and feather anyone. So grow up and get an honest job. Like maybe pimping or shorting palladium. ( 8-^/ )

On a serious note, I'd looked into buying waste management stocks and until the p/e runup thought there were some reasonable buys, particularly in medical waste incineration and in cardboard recycling but nowadays I wouldn't touch them. In fact I purged them from my spreadsheet. Second problem was that even medium caps could get wiped out with one single successful lawsuit or one NIMBY assault. IMHO

Gold is going down, down, down into that roaring pit of fire!
When cybermoney stored in chips in your right hand replaces it.
Besides, we have 10 years surplus supply stored in CB vaults.
Maybe Silver too - when folks can't afford rolls of snapshots.

Now that I have fulfilled my Grizzly task! ;- (

It seems Greenspan may have an ulterior agenda
to bring Gold back as a monetary standard.

Clinton's impeachment ought to help out the POG & POS.
Go Ken Starr!!! Send Slick Willy into that pit of fire!

In the meantime I might buy a few of Silver Eagles.
Just in case.

REF: J ( Stock Bears and Gold ) - HERE'S another one for you!

See following URLs. As usual you need delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before pasting the URL to the Internet:

http://www.golden-eagle.com/editorials_98/vronsky060698.html

Would you mind giving a ballpark percent probability that silver will go to below $4.85 in the next 3 months? Thanking you in advance.

APH/jonesy: ( Basis SI8U ) I was expecting silver to retreat to about 555 before resuming its advance. 555 had two things going for it. Early July support at that level and it would also represent about 50% retrace of the last weekly bar. ...... It would also position the price about in the middle of a 2 month channel. But I agree, a break to or below 540 would not be a good thing. Presently showing 570.

and let the world drift into depression. He should be acting
now if he intends to head off the collapse by lowering interest
rates and reinflating.
A deflation is a cleansing, but harms too many innocents.
Inflation is more easily controlled, and golds reaction to
it is both more predictable and more immediate.

In a depression, golds go down at first too, and doesn't recover
until the bank failures begin and the real fear sets in.

Silver tanked utterly for the duration of the hungry thirties.
You do not want to be holding a hoard of silver going into a
depression.

That is a possibility, and may happen. Some people are after
Greenspan because he has allowed the price of gold to slip so low,
meaning he is looking at the wrong horse ( inflation ) instead of
being more concerned about deflation. IF DEFLATION starts he will
be powerless to stop it because you can't make people borrow.

Every Nation so far has chosen inflation around the world to
help with debt problems but it is beginning not to work. I think
debt forgiveness is what will happen, along with a gold backed
currency to prevent further disasters. But more inflation in the
US first.

BOTTOM LINE: Gold and silver etc. are the only safe places to
be under ANY of the above conditions.

Maybe Veronsky is right about Greenspan putting the final feather
in his cap before he leaves but I think it is a long shot. I hope
he could and would but don't think so.......

Thanks GD

Divide the national debt by the gold available ( that is unknown they as they may have brought tons more ) somewhere between US$6000 -$12000 but that would appear easy the goal posts would have to be moved to protect the "Shorts and CB "leased" AU No ?

Go Gold

cpo - UK

If Sept Silver closes under 5.30 I would say the chance are pretty high 80%. If we can make it thru mid Sept without going below 5.00, 4.85 will not be hit this year.

mkts? They may be stupid, but they're not crazy.

$6000 gold is too high. No one will stand for it. But what if they
did a 10 for 1 write down and came up with $600? That could fly.

I personally do not expect this country to ever go to a gold
standard UNLESS THE PEOPLE DEMAND IT. AND WHY WOULD THEY; THEY HAVE
TOO MUCH DEBT TO PAY OFF. No, I'm sorry, I just can't see the
Ameican citizen demanding it except after GREAT HARDSHIP.

I hope we don't need to go thru hell to get honest but......

Thanks GD

What about a partial backing of the AMD with Gold ? The EURO is rumored to be partially backed by Gold. I think at some point in the future, ALL currencies will be partially backed by gold. Partially backed -- yes; convertible to gold -- no.

last post.

Regards, GD

Stops are a personal thing. It depends on the market you're in, how much money you are willing to risk, type of trade long term short term, how the market is acting, what kind of support and resistance areas are showing up etc. and most important what kind of entry price you have. If you buy a market in the middle of no where then you are forced to have a large stop. If you buy near some kind of support you can have a much smaller stop. I prefer to watch how the market moves and move the stops around accordingly.

Vronsky: I checked out the two URLs you mentioned but only found references to the 1929 crash. Correct me if I am wrong, but havn't there been several bears since then? I feel much more comfortable looking at the results from the 1987 and 1990 crashes because the environemnt more closely resembles today's. I belive that in 1929 the US$ was closely tied to gold. That was not the case in 1987 and 1990. In 1929 there were no such thing as derivatives, banks federally insured, middle class citizens pumping money into 401K accounts every payday, etc.

Do you have similar URLs for the 1987 and/or 1990 Bears?

months Republicans today are politicians they worry about the next election rather than Statesman thinking about the next generation....however Gary Aldrich thinks he will resign by Labour Day.....but bear this in mind a large part of to-days downside was on the news of the Monica deal..... think about that for a minute the Dow heads lower on this story....whats it going to do when really big news hits the fan

According to Bridge News, one of the reasons the Dow fell today was worry over events in Japan. But if that is so why did Nikkei futures rally? These guys often don't know what they are talking about. They must find a reason for the market action. And sometimes any explanation will do --right or wrong.

Thank you. Are you doing anything with platinum? What are you seeing for plat?

Dow can't hold the 9000 level. US long bond yields rising. $US down against Yen Gold holds major ( $US 290 ) support point. The plot thickens.

The Privateer stated in our last Gold commentary that $US 290 is now the major support point for Gold and that Gold was stuck in a $US 290 - $US 300 trading range. We also stated that the momentum was quickly going out of the US stock market.

But here is something else. We have a page which shows a comparison ( using P&F charts ) of the Dow and the Japanese Nikkei so far this year ( 1998 ) . The most striking feature on this page is the similarity of the movements on these two indexes since the US Fed stepped in to support the Yen on June 17.

Both charts are now looking weak, the Dow particularly so. But if you think that the demise of the US market might be the signal for a rebound in Asia in general and in Japan in particular, we suggest you take a look at these two charts and think again.

Today, the US market weakened, US bonds weakened, and the Dollar weakened. Gold didn't do much on the upside, but it DID confirm its recent support point. That's a start.

This is also a possibility. But Dr. Hein says you can't have a partial standard. I for one don't know but how would that work? I guess it
would limit the creation of paper to a muliple of the amount of
gold you had. Let's see 100 divided by 15% equals 6.6666 times. SO I
guess if gold were $1000 that would equate to $6666 an ounce. Close.

But the problem of paying back the debts would still remain except
that the more gold that was mined and purchased by CB's the more
money they could create. So if gold expanded at a %3 to 5% rate that
might be ok. Right now a lot of salary increases have only been in
that range anyway. And no serious revolts.

Maybe the Euro will "FORCE' Greenspan to do likewise with the
dollar.

O.K. When?

Your move.

Thanks, GD

Since Monica Lewinsky was granted blanket immunity, I heard Clinton has gone out and hired the law firm of Diddee Dewum and Howe.

What you are seeing today is the continuation of the cycle. The CRB recorded new low's yesterday at 206.50 . Stock prices are declining in anticipation of vanishing corp profits. It's becoming apparent to many people that the Far East deflation has arrived in North America. Usually, deflation is coupled with political chaos in government which we are seeing today.

I'm not trying to be cheeky, I just want to understand your short positions ( especially APH, whose recommendations I have been clinging to ) . Is it because silver production in up 12 % this year or because India/Japan demand is/may be down? Are your forcasts based on technicals such as moving averages? Where do the fundamentals come in to play in so far as the COMEX inventories keep dropping and dropping? Is the short at $5.85 a quick play? My broker at MONEX thinks I am silly not to keep buying more at these prices.
I am long but am always open to suggestions. Are we not in an up and coming silver BONANZA?

I did not have sexual relations with that woman....

http://www.goldstock.com/issue/issue.html

for the info.

are waiting endlessly for gold to go up and the Dow to Crash APH is quietly and modestly making money! He does not say much but he carries a big stick in the form of a financial plan that he follows successfully.

Can't disagree with you, it does look like deflation is
here. But when I look at the situation in its totality I must
also remember that disinflation has been going on since the early
80's. So I sometimes think that this might be the final stage
before things turn to inflation again.

But we don't know yet. So to me I feel that AUGUST is a VERY
IMPORTANT MONTH.

The bull market began in August of '82. So I think we need to
pay close attention to what happens next month. The money supply has
been going up, not down, all around the world so.....what will people
so with their stock market money after they sell. That's the key to
part of it. I think some will go to gold.

We wait and see. I'm holding gold stocks till they ripen. No
matter how long that takes.

Thanks, GD

@KAPEX ( yesterdays post at 21:10 )
I had a friend tell me that she knew a guy that knew Getty pretty well. She told me that Getty used to take his lunch to work in a brown paper lunch bag. After he ate his lunch, he folded up the paper bag and put in in his pocket to be re-used the next day. I find that F*CK!N awesome.

With all his riches, the guy was too cheap so as to minimize on buying more lunch bags or rather, NOT EVEN TO HAVE HIS LUNCH CATERED IN!!!!!

But then, many of these rich guys are rich cause they watch their pennies. So, who am I to criticise with the wealth he built.

I've heard Microsofts GATES was caught using coupons in a grocery store.

I don't belive the GATES story too much but the Getty one is much more reliable.

The consolation to pay debt off with a high value GOLD eg if you settled off 6 trillion ( not all at once of course ) and au was us$ 6000+ you would part with less gold at US$ you would run out ( depending on what the actual stash is ) and then ( if we all survive Y2K ) gradually push the price down so they can buy it back ( people's short memory.
Consider that maybe great hardship is not too far away for lots of people not just in the US of A......

The status quo will not remain the same.
Thanks

cpo - UK


)

starts to crash big? They sure had no problem buyin' a few billion Yen to help our biggest competitor out of a hole of their own diggin.

6000+you would part with less gold than at US$ 600 at the later price you would runm out of gold

cpo

Let's not forget that inflation has been going on since the
early 80's also, Stocks have been inflating. Not commodities. Since
money flows down hill, I will take the inflation trade now. More money
to be made. Lots more.

Thanks, GD

This depression will last for many years before ending.

Have you noticed that CNBC is NOT pushing the Bull much lately...like today? Their story lines now seem to have a particular bias towards investing in small and intermediate cap stocks... still maintaining a focus that the US is a safe have. That many stocks are trading at low PE ratios comapred to the nifty fifty as they say. They want the money to stay in equites. Yes, brokers make more money this way... I guess.

I FEEL THEY DON"T WANT MONEY TO GO INTO GOLD OR GOLD STOCKS CAUSE IT WILL LIKELY STAY THERE FOR THE LONG TERM and these guys I guess want trading action....like as many transactions as possible.

What other main reason could ther be?

Grant at 19:51 said it better than I ever could. Think about it.

Depressions are a state of mind as the Japaneese are finding
out. If they do over the system overnight then the shock is there
but what are you going to do about it. Roll over and die? NO. Things
will start up again fast. A year or so.
It is when governments drag things out that "depressions" last
a long time. In a depression the debts are wiped out and the bulidings
are still there. The machinery is still there. It is just owned by
someone else.
Look at Japan; 8 years and they can't get off their asses.

Does not have to be that way. That is why I refuse to try and
play the ups and downs in gold. One of these times some of you will get
locked out for good and the game will be over. I plan to stay the
course and win. This hasn't worked....YET!!!!!!!!!!

Musical chairs........when the music stops make sure you have a
seat.


Thanks, GD

Scroll down beneath the chart for a good
rundown of the TI:

http://tfc-charts.w2d.com/zdisplay.phtml?cbas>http://tfc-charts.w2d.com/zdisplay.phtml?cbas
e=SV&cterm=98

http://tfc-charts.w2d.com/zdisplay.phtml?cbas
e=GD&cterm=88

http://tfc-charts.w2d.com/zdisplay.phtml?cbase=SV&cterm=98

@JP If deflation causes a depression, my take is that it would affect the US the most. The economy outside the US will take off big time.

http://tfc-charts.w2d.com/zdisplay.phtml?cbase=GD&cterm=88

Are second quarter results out yet or when do they come out?

Our Fed is worried about inflation, not deflation. As economic conditions deteriorate further ,the fed will begin to lower interest rates to fight deflation. Deflations or inflations once in progress can't be altered by any politician of CB. They usually run to exhaustion and that is a very long process ( years ) .

Speaking of frugal rich guys, Henry Ford demanded that his parts
suppliers use crating wood cut to dimensions so he could use the
crates for floor boards in his cars. How about that? Thats how
smart people get rich. Good for Bill Gates if he uses coupons.

The big boys intervention on June 15, 1998 was to save the stock market not Japan. Look at the daily plot of the Dow. The market topped in May and was headed down big time. All they did though was create a break away gap that will be filled shortly when the market corrects back to 8600.

They probably will until there is an avalanche of foreign dumping and then who knows the Mutual Savers may wake up ....it should not be too long before the avanlanche begins AUGUST WILL BE interesting OIL should pick up someone will soon realise there will be a need to stockpile before Y2K rush starts
Tantalus Rex ( J P Getty ) ID#295111
-------------------------------------
Not at all surprised the sandwich paper was saved . J P Getty Snr had a pay phone installed in his Guildford ( surrey UK ) home for visitors and also costed out his menus....

Micheal ( silver bears ) ID#346404
----------------------------------

Silver Think about Warren Buffet ( read about him if you have not very interesting man ) Please note That UZBEKISTAN recently sold 120 tonnes of silver reserves reported in P.E.Institute http://www.pei-intl.com which would have releived a few

go Gold

Tschuss

cpo_uk

The FED feigns inflation worry or otherwise bye bye dollar... and you can figure the rest of the story.

I've been watching this forum for about 2 years. There were people on here proclaiming silver was going to fall to 3.80 an oz the week before it topped 7.00 last year. I'm not a big speculator but I leveraged 3000 oz
thru Monex about a month ago when Silver was around 5.38 and sold the other day at 5.78. The next day I turned around and bought back in
at 5.67 and set my stop at 5.50. My prediction? The next run will occur within the next two weeks. Silver will break 6.00 then fall back to around 5.80-5.85. The next run after that will break 6.20. This time next year, the DOW will be at 5500/6000 and silver will be 12.00 per ounce. Sometime after this time next year the DOW will crash to 2000-2500 and
you'll see 1000.00+ oz gold and 50.00+ oz silver ( probably 100.00 per oz ) .

The timing for a partial gold backing of the US$ could happen on or about Jan 1, 1999 when the EURO is formalized, legitimized and implemented. The reason for ( a ) the partial backing, and ( b ) the Jan. 1999 timing is so the US neither serves as a dumping ground for greenbacks returning to the US nor loses its status as the world reserve currency.

On another note, should WJC for whatever reason, not finish out his term, Al Gore would take his place. Al has been groomed his ENTIRE LIFE to be President of the US. His VP, IMVHO, would be West Virginia senator John D. Rockefeller IV ( Democrat ) . It's deja vu all over again. Remember Agnew finishing out Nixon's term with VP Nelson Rockefeller ?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm ........ the mind reels .... anybody remember how the stock market and gold behaved at that time ?

@Gold Dancer. You hit it on the nail straight on and what a spike that was.

I can't see gold going below $280 an ounce. No way. That would really cause MANY and I mean very many mines to shut down. The goal you see is to buy as much gold as you can real cheap. ( That's what the PriceFixers want cause if mines shut down, POG shoots up and the DOMINO effect comes into play when shorts gotta cover. )

I am very confident that gold will trade between $290 to 296 in the mean time. You can make quick money buy selling gold stocks at $296 and then buying them back when gold is at $290. Like a 10% return for every such cycle and that is nice money when bonds are making 5% per year. Or better still, you can buy puts/calls cause you always win this way when there is volativity in a stock like gold stocks.

But there is a high risk in doing this. You can get burned if all of a sudden gold takes off, like $60 bucks in one day ( only a 20% raise in the POG )

And like you say, if you don't have a chair when the music stops, you may not be able to hold your poop.

The stock reports are now posted at futuresource.com, if anyone can access them.

Well said the ups & downs of gold you've got to be in it to win it and for anyone who has held on for a year or 2 only to be out with a leap and hesitate for the shorts only to find its going for the sky would be ill I Think.

Yes it is strange that the Japanese have taken so long but then FEAR is not easy to overcome ( which is strange for folks that used to leap onto swords ) .

cpo

Thanks for the feedback! I think you are right on. I'm in for the long haul, hoping silver will rise to near all time highs over the next 2 years as demand peaks versus the reciprical--inventories dropping. By then new mines will have a greater influence on the supply and perhaps digital photography will affect the demand ( it ain't good enough yet for my family albums... ) But the unknowns are the economies of the other big users.
I'm in with Warren and whoever J. Aron of Goldman, Sachs and Co bought for. I will be riding the ups and downs because I can't predict when the rapid rise will be. I mean, almost anyone with a hundred million sitting around could impact the inventories in COMEX wildly.... How bout those Shieks? As the price rises the liquidity will increase ( sellers ) and the price comes back down. So I bet I could be tempted to take some profits if we saw a big up spike in the POS...

GOLD:

1,081,981 + 10,045

SILVER ( WOW! ) :

77,999,560 -1,662,817

GO SILVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone have any comments on the dismal performance of Barrick today with both gold and the XAU up???

All: can anyone offer any comments from experiences from dealing with Bernie Bohl brokerage? Any replies would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

Can you break the comex withdrawals down by regisgtered and eligible....and did you find out if it makes any difference?

tia...

bd

http://www.kitcomm.com/pub/discussion/MyHTML4.htm
The NYSE swing has passed through the -20 level.
Last time this happened was back in June 1996.
I would guess that there'll be a rally soon or a hard fall coming.
So far the internals point to this selling wave being far stronger than anything over the last few years.

Also momentum, advance/decline, and volumes.
http://www.kitcomm.com/pub/discussion/MyHTML2.htm

Definately looks like a genuine Ping II.
How low will it go????

http://www.investor1.com/writers/kaplan/index.asp

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980728/kinross_go_1.html

are basically in the "inflation camp." In the 30's, deflation lasted a while, but inflation won out in the end. When we look at history it is hard to interpret events because meanings change. I'm finding that the **flation words are tossed around so often and with no reference to time periods ( which are essential when we talk about change ) that the words totally loose they're meaning. I think I'll just use them to my advantage. While I haggle to buy a boat I will say "the economy is trending deflationary" and when I am trying to sell my car I will push the inflationary senario. One consistancy that I would mention is that I am beginning to recognize that the price of gold ( in any currency ) basically forshadows the general trend by one to three years.
Thoughts???
-c

Anyone review Martin Armstrong's latest at PEI? Posted a week ago. Almost forgot about it.

Mr. Armstrong appears to believe there is a sea change afoot.

5.70...now 5.71 up .04...go silver...

Nope; I can't access the full data until after midnight Kitco time....got the data from Kaplan's site. On my questions about Registered vs Elligible stocks....no responses, so I'm where I was yesterday.

Silverbaron, someone must be reading your post about silver withdrawals..1.6 million...wow

Hut - I believe that ABX is engaged in a hedging position that guarantees Barrick an excellent return ( I want to say $400 per ounce ) through the year 2000..this is a prudent strategy at current gold levels. Minor upturns in bullion prices will not likely move Barrick that much.

I trust
my dog
my self
my gun & ammo
my stores of food
my tiny stock of gold & silver

and beyond that
the behaviour of the universe as best we understand it.

I do not trust government or anyone who helps to extend its power.
I do not trust anything government "creates" - such as fiat money.
I do not trust people and anything they create
or profess to believe without solid empirical evidence
( and then that trust is only tentative - pending further evidence. )

ROR - that is why I do not trust you and what you profess.
That is why I now ignore your proclamations and theories.
I also do not have the time to waste responding to any more of them.

Nevertheless
I am in constant search for more information -
and this Kitco forum is a font of useful information
on many things besides Gold and Silver.
You see - the discussion here and the behaviour of markets
helps to explain human behaviour. Any little bit in that endeavor
can help me avoid human-made obstacles and difficult times.
Yes we have met the enemy - and he is us.
Perhaps the least we can do is better understand the enemy.

I thought one was supposed to be able to levitate. Anyone seen anything levitating???

are basically in the "inflation camp." In the 30's, deflation lasted a while, but inflation won out in the end. When we look at history it is hard to interpret events because meanings change. I'm finding that the **flation words are tossed around so often and with no reference to time periods ( which are essential when we talk about change ) that the words totally loose they're meaning. I think I'll just use them to my advantage. While I haggle to buy a boat I will say "the economy is trending deflationary" and when I am trying to sell my car I will push the inflationary senario. One consistancy that I would mention is that I am beginning to recognize that the price of gold ( in any currency ) basically forshadows the general trend by one to three years.
Thoughts???
-c

BillD: Do you have a URL for futures quotes on the POS & G? Is it the access market you are looking at presently? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

tia

As I would spit on the ground he walked on.

Oh well, wrong again! But I hate to see the USofA suffer in the process.

Silver lifeboats available. Escape the crash! Astound your fellow fund managers with your great peformance even in down markets! Yes, you too can enjoy the comfort and excitement of a ascending portfolio! For a limited time only!! Shorts need not apply.

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/data/dbcfiles/curc
ommt.htx?SOURCE=htx/http2_mw

I must remember to stay detached.

Try pasting those two pieces together....Sometimes the system splits the URL and it isn't obvious why it happens.

Get ready to be SHOCKED! Asia crisis is hitting high tech like a million pound meat hammer. Asia stopped buying in Q4 1997. High tech had a great Q1 1998. Why? They were all stuffing their channels -- retailers, resellers, slamming closed any deal that still had legs, anyone who'd take inventory so they could make our numbers. In Q2 we had zero growth as sell-thru just about stopped and over-stocked retailers refused more inventory. Q3? These numbers will rrrrrrrock your world. Heavy negative GDP for Q3. News of this will leak out by mid-August. By Sept a sense of doom will be widespread, with major high-tech manufacturers announcing layoffs. From there, Q4 will look like a deep, dark hole. Oct. 98 will be a very, very horrid month for the stock market. Many tears.

Ugh!

I have no idea what this will do to the price of gold. I don't think anyone's thinking about gold or silver. The machine is in very serious trouble. Anything is possible.

Sorry for the bad tidings. Thought you'd all want to know.

-EJ

they both are sweet and gentle companions compared to my computer
and Windows 95 , which torture me endlessly. If any other product in
this country performed as these two products do, they would be out of business.
Go Gold

Silverbaron, muchas gracius, much obliged, thank you.......

I would have to say you are right about gold leading the **flation trend. Gold is very sensitive to interest rates, currency exchange rates ( particularly those involving the dollar ) , and the bond markets. General inflation/deflation rates tend to be affected by peoples memories and perceptions of prices. If a typical consumer buys a car for $5000 say, and then resells it sometime later he probably does not consult a dollar strength index in deciding what to sell it for. The general populace does not respond to rate fluctuations nearly as quickly as those in the precious metals markets.

Some people attempt to correlate the price of gold to the price of equities. There is some slight basis to this in that gold in the past has shown a "negative beta". The correlation however is much stronger to the bond market.

address and I will forward the url to you...cannot do it with this webtv... ( Idon't think I can ) ...email me at
davis@crusader.bac.edu

I am using DBC ....

You can also get it from USGold night quotes...

bd

Hut,

Peter Munk has made most of Barricks aquisitions in the late summer
months ( Arequippa, Lac Minerals ) and has stated earlier this year
that they would't bebuting anything until mid year.
The bigger $$$ is probably on the sidlines because his aquisitions
dilutes the stock until people realize exactly what Barrick purchased.

Hey, EJ in San Jose, right on the fault.

Hang on to your silver, man, we've got fire in the hole!!

Man I wish I was out in San Jose, Carmel, Monterey, or SF riding little cable cars....

Ooops, I started to get interested. I must go back into calm reflective meditation again.....

I help out my local ISP by being a contact point for applications, payment and for distribution of their freebie software ( Netscape, etc. )

This person comes in to get her software now that she has signed up with our ISP. What operating system? I ask. Windows 98.
Oh boy!
Caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, she is.
Either use Internet Explorer and pay homage to Caeser Bill.
or Navigator and have Windows 98 savage it and her patience
and likely make her hate computers forever more.

I should have tried selling her some Silver Eagles.
At least they have some constancy one can rely on.

Why not install both?

No one has heard of B&W Smirnoff - is it just the standard Smirnoff or is it a rare breed? -c

Gold

With Windows98 she already has Internet Explorer installed - actually "installed" is not an appropriate term. "Integrated" into her system - with its tentacles in so many places there is no such thing as uninstall.

Installing Navigator ( or Communicator with all the bells & whistles )
has been reported here and elsewhere on the net and in journals
to be so fraught with hidden traps and complexities that even
professional software techs do not look forward to dealing with
what havoc Windows 98 does to Navigator - unless they are being paid to.

I confess to not having the personal pleasure of using Win98.
I have heard too many horror stories from others.
Part of what brought us so far is learning from others.
It only took one cave man to relate his experience of eating
suspiciously overripe meat to warn the others off that carcass
and similar ones that smelled and looked the same.
Okay, so at least two fools had to try too.
But at least the whole tribe didn't learn the hard way.

Now how does that explain Goldbugs behavior?

are you talking about Garmisch Patenkirchen, in the " bayrischen Alpen"
on the austrian border? It used to be very beautiful about 30 years ago, the surrounding pollution is killing the trees, you can find more serene places in the canad. Rockies now, unless you go there for the " oompah " and the beer ! pardon me for my critic, wish you enjoyable moments in the alps between cow-dung, sipping on "Alm-dudler"........
"vbg" .... yodel, yodel,
l_b

I am currently using Windows 98 installed a few days ago. I have also installed Netscape Communicator--the new fancy one that goes and looks up bookmarks without all the http stuff. Am now going back and forth between Explorer and Communicator. I like both of them. Have had no major glitches yet ( famous last words ) , though Netscape took me some time to install properly and took up a big chunk of memory. Will play around with both for a few weeks. I always like to have a backup in case one or the other fails me.

Gollum, it's an ok town. Sell my silver? Who do you think I am, Warren Buffet? I'm gonna hang onto these bad boys until the cows come home, which, re my previous post, will be sooner than even I thought possible. The front of the high-tech train stopped, the couplings are still compressing, and the back of the train's still going full speed, but only the last few cars. It's gonna be gross.

clone, don't sweat it, bro. It's the thought that counts. Send whatever you please.

Off for some brews at Gordon Biersch. Until the next time...
-EJ

I see socialist Brian Tobin thinks he is a Labrador nickel miner.
I think Inco will rule the roost.

THANKS!

I have been following your posts and arguments with some attention and what strikes me more than anything is that your reasons for shorting the silver market are _entirely_ technical -- it's as though this market were nothing more than a nameless, faceless data series. We could be talking about the copper market, the bean market or the long bond market -- dots on a chart. Nothing more.

With due respect, I feel such an approach could prove to be suicidal. The silver market right now ain't the copper market, the bean market or the long bond market. The silver market right now is the silver market - a powder keg waiting to blow.

I am sure you know all the facts. Nine years accumulated deficit. Massive drawdown of available on-surface inventories. High inelastic supply/demand characteristics. And a price about half the $10/oz or so that would provide for physical market clearing ( supply = demand ) . No other market has defied the supply/demand reality the way the silver market has.

What has kept it down? The lease market has kept it down. Why borrow $US at 7% when you can borrow silver at 1.75%? So you borrow at 1.75%, take the silver and stick in a vat and make film. The net effect of this angle has been the liquidation of inventory at bargain basement prices. Oh - that and a massive outstanding physical short position.

People will scoff at the importance of a large short position ( Armstrong often does this ) - for every short position there is a long position, they say. Zero sum stuff. But there is a fundamental difference between a short and a long in a finite liquidity market like silver. Two reasons for this:

1. The depth of the longs is much greater than the depth of the shorts. By depth I mean: "The resistence to covering given negative market sentiment." A short will be far more likely to cover in a rising market than a long will in a falling market. Why? Because the long will typically not be leveraged ( we're talking the physical market here ) and, by and large, he likes his silver. If he didn't, he would have sold it instead of leasing it. By contrast, the short is only short because that's been the profitible thing to do ( borrow at 1.75% instead of 7% ) . If one day this is no longer the case, well, he'll just go flat.

2. There are a lot more dollar bills out there than there are bars of silver; consequently, the price impact of covering a short position ( as in "he'll just go flat" ) is radically different than that of covering a long position. Define "price impact" to be some function f of current demand and available supplies; might look something like: f = AVAIL/max ( ( AVAIL - DEMAND ) ,0 ) . Now, in the $US market we have DEMAND much greater than AVAIL - lotsa paper out there. No real scarcity, no real price impact. Ain't the case for the silver market; as the demand for a given period approaches the available supplies, this function approaches infinity. Boom, as they say. Just a theoretical exercise? Well, let's do some numbers: Estimates of on-surface bullion range anywhere from 400 mil ozs. to 900 mil ozs. I have heard that the size of the silver lease market is anywhere from 150 mil ozs to 300 mil ozs. At the extreme ends of these ranges, it would take 3/4 of available supplies to cover the existing short position. This is an astounding number. Moreover, if current trends continue, you will see the size of the physical short position exceed available supplies. You do the math.


I will concede that some technical indicators are helpful for short term trading purposes. But still: You really wanna short this market? Really? If so, then lemme ask you one more question: You got the goods? Do you _have_ the silver? I ask because I'm the guy on the other end of your position. And I got the paper. And I may just want your silver.

A friendly warning :+ ) ,

Cheers,

Sam__A ( not sam! )

Whom do I contact if so? ( Apologies for the re-posts. )

Sam__A ( not sam! )

favor...when you see the good ship or wagon NAMASTE' DON'T FIRE!!! dammit...

The sentence: "Now, in the $US market we have DEMAND much greater than AVAIL - lotsa paper out there. No real scarcity, no real price impact" should read "Now, in the $US market we have AVAIL much greater than DEMAND - lotsa paper out there. No real scarcity, no real price impact."

Apologies...

Sam__A ( not sam! )


I have been following your posts and arguments with some attention and what strikes me more than anything is that your reasons for shorting the silver market are _entirely_ technical -- it's as though this market were nothing more than a nameless, faceless data series. We could be talking about the copper market, the bean market or the long bond market -- dots on a chart. Nothing more.

With due respect, I feel such an approach could prove to be suicidal. The silver market right now ain't the copper market, the bean market or the long bond market. The silver market right now is the silver market - a powder keg waiting to blow.

I am sure you know all the facts. Nine years accumulated deficit. Massive drawdown of available on-surface inventories. High inelastic supply/demand characteristics. And a price about half the $10/oz or so that would provide for physical market clearing ( supply = demand ) . No other market has defied the supply/demand reality the way the silver market has.

What has kept it down? The lease market has kept it down. Why borrow $US at 7% when you can borrow silver at 1.75%? So you borrow at 1.75%, take the silver and stick in a vat and make film. The net effect of this angle has been the liquidation of inventory at bargain basement prices. Oh - that and a massive outstanding physical short position.

People will scoff at the importance of a large short position ( Armstrong often does this ) - for every short position there is a long position, they say. Zero sum stuff. But there is a fundamental difference between a short and a long in a finite liquidity market like silver. Two reasons for this:

1. The depth of the longs is much greater than the depth of the shorts. By depth I mean: "The resistence to covering given negative market sentiment." A short will be far more likely to cover in a rising market than a long will in a falling market. Why? Because the long will typically not be leveraged ( we're talking the physical market here ) and, by and large, he likes his silver. If he didn't, he would have sold it instead of leasing it. By contrast, the short is only short because that's been the profitible thing to do ( borrow at 1.75% instead of 7% ) . If one day this is no longer the case, well, he'll just go flat.

2. There are a lot more dollar bills out there than there are bars of silver; consequently, the price impact of covering a short position ( as in "he'll just go flat" ) is radically different than that of covering a long position. Define "price impact" to be some function f of current demand and available supplies; might look something like: f = AVAIL/max ( ( AVAIL - DEMAND ) ,0 ) . Now, in the $US market we have DEMAND much greater than AVAIL - lotsa paper out there. No real scarcity, no real price impact. Ain't the case for the silver market; as the demand for a given period approaches the available supplies, this function approaches infinity. Boom, as they say. Just a theoretical exercise? Well, let's do some numbers: Estimates of on-surface bullion range anywhere from 400 mil ozs. to 900 mil ozs. I have heard that the size of the silver lease market is anywhere from 150 mil ozs to 300 mil ozs. At the extreme ends of these ranges, it would take 3/4 of available supplies to cover the existing short position. This is an astounding number. Moreover, if current trends continue, you will see the size of the physical short position exceed available supplies. You do the math.


I will concede that some technical indicators are helpful for short term trading purposes. But still: You really wanna short this market? Really? If so, then lemme ask you one more question: You got the goods? Do you _have_ the silver? I ask because I'm the guy on the other end of your position. And I got the paper. And I may just want your silver.

A friendly warning :+ ) ,

Cheers,

Sam__A ( not sam! )

threatened to shoot an once of gold--- but I have thought about doing that to windows 95. But in the respect that both of them can make a person a bit uneven is true. Jerry

Barrick is about to bring on there new Mexican mine in a big way,at a cost of $50.00 U.S. per oz.. None of the high cost producers can compete.
They are selling hedged gold at $460. now, could be Mulroney and Munk spent the $3million to keep the price down.
Barrick is king.

And from all of us lurkers, to the regulars, keep posting--- you make this the most informative site on the net.

Windows95 is less than innocent but Windows98 should get a first class ticket to the gallows for sure...sombody needs to shut Bill's gate...
the pie guy was on the right trac eh... lets see what we can f_ck with next...leave it alone, improve on what you had almost right the first time...

ego is a bitch dog that Camdesuss pays much too much atention tue without the es and a day...is and another country eh...Mr. Camdesuss huh, Mr. WITHOUT the COURTESY of a reach AROUND...

MY GOOODNESS...some people's wit's are that DIM...

Highland Park 12 From The Island of the greatest of spirits.
The bottle is open, the cork destroyed, the small end is down, and may the spirits never end. Great silence and your hat off please to the ORKNEY ISLANDS.

Thanks for the offer. I've set up a directory on a unix box to take the file in an upload. If you don't feel like uploading the whole thing, the last five years of gold prices will do just fine.

ftp it to:

sagetalk.com

the directory is /pub/jamestown/rjfiles

just log on with blanks for userid and password. you will be able to upload, but not download.

I will remove the directory when the files are uploaded.

I really appreciate it, and will post the results. thanks!

what periods of time do you think the gold price was being "manipulated"? this will help in testing the hypothesis.

watching silver, it is ..um..
up 7 cents on access!

Drawdown of 1.6MM ounces just may get this mudder moving...

A chug a lug to you.

It was pleasant indeed to see gold and gold stocks standing tall and proud ( not tall and proud as I would like though ) today while the paper market staggered about like a drunken sailer. Methinks this may be the trend for the next two or three years. The time for us yellow bellies has come. Come back Old Yeller.

and if so, how is it going?

When you believe in predictions of costs as low as $50/ounce, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn and some Florida tide land to sell you.

To many factors are involved to predict mining costs accurately and I have zero respect for this company who started the hedging madness and then predicts low mining costs, to cover its butt. Even hiring NWO pundits to spread its bull.

Playing PACKMAN to aquire mining properties, lile LAC Minerals will backfire on them ( some already have ) be assured that the Hounds will Rise from the Bowels of the Earth and devour them. Do they deserve better?

Gold is going no place . ( simply stated ) Until the U.S.A.$. comes off its high horse and loses some value.
Only a American can afford it. The American dollar is 30% overvalued.
I was wrong once in my life.

A privilege...yes it is...Hmmmmmmmmmmm...a privilege...thanks...

to you and YOURS...forever...wind in your sails...

You are absolutley correct in all statments.
Like Will Rogers said I can only say what I read in the Northern Miner.
Barrick has been and always will be The King.

I am toast...buttered on both sides...a healthy, HAPPY evening to all

Had some Florida tide land at Boynton Beach, just like mines, bought cheap sold,cheap.......... Years later.

North shore which is long.

Shine on, shine on, silvery moon...

Watcha askin for that bridge.