Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:02 - ID#199190)
It's finally quieted down.

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:03 - ID#347267)
EB, l bug, anyone: I got the same stuff from Scott Fraser. Anyone have any first hand experience with his letter and picks?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:07 - ID#424394)
From under the floor, below the trap door
34 hours since the last rumble across the floor
I wonder if it is safe to stick up my head for a peek around.
%- (

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:13 - ID#424394)
I dragged poor Jujube limp body down here
To prevent the effin bum
from jumping on Jujube whilst he was injured & defenseless.
I was afeared he would go cannibal in his crazed fury.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:16 - ID#219363)
Well, I was going to check to see how much my mutual fund had dropped since I got out of it ( I wrote the value down the day I got out ) , but it looks like my girlfriend "cleaned the apartment". Last time she "cleaned" she almost became my ex-, but I guess that ain't gonna stop her.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:17 - ID#233199)
@John Disney
Any particular news re: RANGY, DROOY, HGMCY, or SGOLY?


(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:18 - ID#233199)
@John Disney

Thanks ...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:25 - ID#207145)
I felt driven
To buy gold this morning. I started off right, losing 5 sixteenths on NEM. My afterthought was, "why am I a glutton for punishment"?The answer was "Let It Be". 100 shares of the best forward indicator will alert me when to buy 10,000 shares.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:25 - ID#373419)
The news here....i've lost over 50% in 8 weeks with Rangy....i seem to recall lots of 'good ink' about it on Kitco just as i was buying it....

careful what you read... : )


(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:27 - ID#207145)
Also, Clinton will deploy US forces
off Iraq by torrow. This you can count on.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:27 - ID#424394)
I heard all the ruckus from the other side of the valley
They had all the critters stirred up somethin' fierce.
I ran as fast as I could, slipped in the secret tunnel
and came up under the floor, but I got there too late.
Poor Jujube was in a bad way layin' there on the floor.
The fight had moved into the next room for the time being.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:31 - ID#431263)
VENGF UP 10.34%!! NOW THE LARGEST SHAREHOLDER IN LIHIR ( 19% ) !! Check it out on Yahoo news!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:33 - ID#373284)
Ted Nugent for President
Its time to set this country on the right path...uh huh...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:33 - ID#431263)

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:33 - ID#424394)
They all gave poor Jujube up for dead,
That probably saved Jujube from F* coming back to finish the job.
Even RJ thought Jujube had "gasped his last and slipped into oblivion."
No doubt Jujube figures he has passed into the Golden Land.
Poor feller hasn't regained consciousness yet.
His heartbeat is weak and he is running a fever.
I've stuck an IV in his arm to get some fluids in him.
Not much else I can do. Can't call for help.
The effin bum busted up the radio.
I hope somebody comes by.
Though I hope not F* and his buddies.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:35 - ID#431263)

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:39 - ID#431263)
you guessed it--POWERBALL!! Cheeze what BULLscheiss!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:43 - ID#280214)
RJ - meet me over on K2
And please bring a stretcher.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:46 - ID#207145)
We who invest in gold hate US dollars
We must, we lose enough of them on gold.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:49 - ID#199190)
Hang on Grizz
Help is coming.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:50 - ID#431263)
We who invest in gold hate slavery!! Gold is freedom from tyranny!!

John Disney__A
(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:51 - ID#24135)
Rangold reflections
for swp1 .
Half of Rangy's activity is Rangold Exploration.
Right now the Siama mine is in the process of coming
on stream and costs are still not down to beakeven.
Almost all the RSA mines are rolling in profits
at this rand rate .. and not limited to gold .. the
economics of randslide extend to copper coal sugar
.. anything priced on an international basis..
So the alternative investment choices are many..
Plus Siama does not benefit from Randslide as it
is in Franc zone Mali ( I think )
Moreover .. there seems to be a genuine disaffection
for Brett Kebble in the market and uncertainty about
JCI plans.. I guote ..
"Rangold said .. rationalization with CAM and JCI
was one of many options .., but NO DECISION HAD BEEN
TAKEN YET ( caps mine ) ."
.. "The CAM-JCI merger is the latest twist in a series
of transactions devised to salvage the the fortunes
of a troubled JCI and to restore some of the shareholder
wealth that had DISSAPEARED since KEBBLE JUNIOR became
... "strategy for Rangold has been fulfilled .. future
under review at the moment .. number of options on the
table" , ROGER KEBBLE said.
The aricle goes on to say that Kebble senior
expects Southern Era to buy Rangold out of Marsfontein.
It also quotes Mark Bristow as saying that R.
Resources results had improved with gold operations
at Tongon in Cote d'Ivoire does very well.
So.. I think Rangy is a long termer .. very much
tied to the fortunes of gold .. The kebble cloud
hangs over it for the moment .. I dont expect any
movement until Siama makes money .. I said that before.
I also sold mine and will buy back in 3rd quarter if
Siama results are good. If gold/diamonds etc come
good and environment becomes inflationary .. it could
be the best performer of all .. until then .. bow wow.
Also seems like daddy is a bit p!ssed at sonny boy.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:52 - ID#340383)
Ah, yes. Gollum and the three prices. %^ )

Followed by RJ, and the three names.

Put em together and what have you got. ( Bibbety, Bobbety, Boo! )

Cheep, Steep and Heap

Gollum Black dot. Neither of the other two guys saw anything but
black dots.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:53 - ID#338111)
Banks don't like it...
...when you turn up to withdraw cash. ( Yes the folding stuff )

Recently, I wanted a lousy 3000 AUD ( 1800 USD ) . I was ( politely ) told - "Sir we do need 24 Hours notice for cash withdrawls". And this was a CITY branch!

When I insisted they hand over my money, they looked at me as if I had done something wrong.

It's incidences like this that make me nervous. Its little wonder, the Aussie Prime Assets Ratio is 3%. 1 dollar "creates" 33.

Too bad if 10% of Aussies want their money on 31/12/1999


(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:55 - ID#207145)
10--4 Golden Cheese Head
Then again we could have waited for it to bottom, head up.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 00:58 - ID#219363)
Look'n a little ugly.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:03 - ID#431263)
Yeh, kinda' like Janet Reno! Specially the Heng Seng which just hit a new 52-week LOW tonight!! Ugly! Looks like there may be something to a Chinese devaluation sooner rather than later! Stay tuned!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:05 - ID#280214)
Gollum - the key is why for it could be either red or black
Red dot on RJ
If both of the others raised their hand.
And RJ saw each of the others had a black dot.
Then they both must have seen one red dot - on RJ.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:05 - ID#207145)
Jammet Reno
Waco child killer and brown noser of Bill Clitton.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:07 - ID#340383)

Alternate answer...
Th answer was not divulged to us because he had a signed confidentiality agreement with the King. However, he knew
the answer because the dots were on the very tops of the heads,
and... a little bird told him... Awww... You never know when
or how * kindness* will be repaid..

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:08 - ID#207145)
G. Cheese
I believe the Campaign fundgate is the REAL deal. Gore would be convicted also.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:10 - ID#431263)
What's the good word in OZ tonight? Any news on Lihir, Niugini or Vengold?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:11 - ID#207145)
Loui Free has already indicated
that Clinton/Gore might be deeply involved. This is where impeachment picks up steam next year.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:16 - ID#431263)
Wish I could read that 300 page report Ken Starr's preparing? Lewinsky is simply bait for the trap. Once Starr establishes the fact that BC is a liar, a pervert and a hypocrite, then he'll hit him with the really SERIOUS stuff! Watch what happens to the DOW and GOLD when THAT STUFF hits the fan!! Whoa!! Or is that Woe?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:18 - ID#411259)
..... Jujube alive... Can this be? .....

Squirell -
I do not feel safe there, please pass this message to Grizz:

I am heartened to hear this wondrous news, Grizz, but stay low
Supplies are on the way, but the perimeter may have snipers
Stealth is the watchword for now, but move quick when the team arrives
Alas Jujube may not have much time but we must at least wait until dawn
Elevate the head and keep up with the fluids and keep him going till morning
Is the head shot bad? I fear brain damage and the Jujube of old
Will be lost to newer generations of free and righteous souls

He seems a plucky lad, full of vim and the other v word

Stay low, good luck, and transfuse your own blood, if necessary.

God bless you Grizz

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:19 - ID#207145)
Golden Cheesehead
It is called "chickens coming home to roost. The media is to blame for letting him get past New Hampshire in 1992, with Jennifer Flowers and the DRAFT DODGE.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:22 - ID#207145)
Clinton is "Poster boy " of press
They love him dearly. They hate this process. I do not dread what must be done. Remember Nixon, Reagan, and Bush baby.

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:22 - ID#377196)
Black was the color. Putting himself in each of the others
position he noticed that they had not raised their hands, therefore
they must have seen black. So the king had painted black on all of
the contestants.

Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:24 - ID#401460)
Hong Kong
Hang Seng

Thursday August 6, 12:16 am Eastern Time

HK stocks slump to lowest levels since January 95

HONG KONG, Aug 6 ( Reuters ) - Hong Kong's Hang Seng Index slumped to its lowest level since January 1995 on Thursday morning, hit by a rise in local interbank rates.


(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:24 - ID#431263)
What'd BC get? 42% of the popular vote? And now we keep having to hear the liberal media mantra that we knew what we were gettin' when WE elected him the first time! What scheiss!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:27 - ID#207145)
Pee Rot
Isn't that when you get really drunk, and pee your matress. Then you wake up "PEE ROT."

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:28 - ID#25196)
golden cheesehead re Lihir
The oz market down 35 pts with all sectors down.Lihir down 4 cents even though alot of press re Vengolds buying stake.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:30 - ID#401460)

George Sorros ( sp )
News today suggest that he may be betting on devaluation in China.


(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:31 - ID#431263)
Is the press positive on Vengold or negative? Any speculation as to whether Placer Dome intends to increase its stake in Lihir through Vengold? Takeover perhaps?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:32 - ID#207145)
High Rise
That would be an interesting addition to the stock market mixture.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:35 - ID#431263)
That makes TWO votes for President Ted Nugent!! Maybe we can start an alternative party like PEE-ROT did!

John Disney__A
(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:35 - ID#24135)
To all ..
I have a few dogs. One is a 14 year old hunter named BEN.
He is blind now and a bit disoriented. Eating is one of
his few remaining pleasures in life.
When he gets hungry .. or in a mood to eat.. he goes
to the frig .. and barks at it. He seems to feel that
barking will make food come to him in some magical
way. To the frig .. BEN is irrelevent .. being
inanimate .. it is unaware of his existance or his
actions. But BEN persists ... WOOF WOOF WOOF says
I love this dog and I hate to see him make an ass of
himself this way.
But when I see certain posters .. yell at the DJ
Index .. or the Hang Seng .. or the gold market .. in
a misguided attempt to make it go one way or the
other .. I feel better about BEN ..
After all, even though he's old, disoriented, and
blind, he's got as much sense as some of the guys that
post on Kitco.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:43 - ID#207145)
John Disney
Sounds like a guy who has barket at his share somewhere along the line.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:44 - ID#401460)

All projections until today, were for a China devaluation in the 4th Qtr.

Clinton stalling will put Monica gate into the 4th Qtr. about the time the Treason investigation heats up.

Corp. Earnings should be really flat in the 4th Qtr.

Iraq is kicking sand in the face of the UN.

I got another letter from a bank re: Yr2K today and it was on the news that Europe is a Yr2K mess .......etc. etc. Problem starts in 1999.

This is early August, it would appear that we may be ahead of schedule.

Watch Gold over the next 48 hours.


(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:44 - ID#338111)
@J. Disney
Sorry to hear your dog is blind. At least you love him still.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:46 - ID#207145)
John Disney
As long as you don't howl at the moon. If you get hairy suddenly that's different. Long fingernails? Time to lead Ben back home.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:49 - ID#207145)
3rd quarter profits report in October. We could call this a confluence of events. The feces will hit the rotating oscellator.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:50 - ID#25196)
The press is positive on vengold,however everyone is denying who will takeover.The talk is vengold will buy out other partners without a takeover.Vengold have just pait $2.38 a share,a hefty premium over the 1.91 current price.I suggest there is alot of upside in Lihirs price re trading.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:50 - ID#25196)
The press is positive on vengold,however everyone is denying who will takeover.The talk is vengold will buy out other partners without a takeover.Vengold have just pait $2.38 a share,a hefty premium over the 1.91 current price.I suggest there is alot of upside in Lihirs price re trading.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:50 - ID#219363)
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not trying to influence an Asian market *grin*. I'm trying to figure out what's going to happen tomorrow on the DOW. Besides, I don't think most of the people here would pay any attention to some guy who was just standing there, looking down at the ground, smiling softly to himself, dressed up in a sweater and a nice pair of pants and shoes, maybe drinking a glass of wine. Nobody would care about him one way or the other.

At least not unless he was standing on the ledge of a big building getting ready to jump.

Oh, your dog probably barks at the frig because he's used to getting food out of it when he barks. Kinda like investors are used to buying into intra-day lows.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:52 - ID#207145)
clk tech
John's dog may be blind, but he does know where the Fridg is, and that John WILL open it for him. Who's smarter.Kidding.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:54 - ID#338111)
Was thinking of that as well! :- )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:54 - ID#255284)
Arf Arf
I bet if Ben barks enough the frig door will open and the food will appear. Operant Conditioning ( Eh BF? ) . Like doomsayers, keep on predicting a crash for long enough, one day you'll be right, by Golly!

Back to the Skinner Box

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:56 - ID#207145)
We all know
where to bark, or not to bark. We all are blind.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:56 - ID#267298)
Looking for opinions
We have heard time and time and time again that if all Starr can get on
Clinton is that he did indeed have sexual relations with Lewinsky that
the American public is willing to overlook this and it will be business as


If the evidence were undeniable then the president of the USA has
COMMITTED PERJURY, does anyone really believe that a majority of
Democrats, Republicans, the Media and the American Public will simply
look at this as being no big deal ?

If so, America is in serious, serious trouble, or maybe I am just naive.

I would be most interested in anyone's opinion on this issue..

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:56 - ID#268404)
simple fact
If you don't buy gold, its going down.....
If I had WB's gazillions, I would buy all open market gold

(Thu Aug 06 1998 01:59 - ID#207145)
D bbog
His ass is grass and starr is a lawnmower. Next is Campaign Fundsgate.
Thats nextyears embarrasment.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:02 - ID#268404)
If the leader of a country is corrupt and immoral, then the people under his leadership will most likely be corrupt and immoral

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:03 - ID#338111)
Well I personally don't care where Clinton puts his pee-pee. I could be misinformed but isn't it that he alegedly persuaded Lewisky to lie - pervert the course of Justice? That would be a problem.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:10 - ID#268404)
moral code
You can't have Justice unless you follow a Higher Moral Law

John Disney__A
(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:10 - ID#24135)
Ben says Hello ..
to all

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:11 - ID#219363)
My complaint, since everyone seems to have one, is that I've noticed a trend in the past few weeks of numerous people saying things in the forum that are meant to discourage others from posting. The whole F* thing, people saying that don't want to hear about DOW drops, people commenting on posts that weren't directly related to the Gold market, someone even gave me a hard time this evening because I expressed a view of Gold that was contrary to their way of looking at it!

I don't want the forum to go down in quality either, but at the same time, I enjoy seeing what everyone has to say, even if it's not directly related to whatever is going on in the Gold market.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:14 - ID#190411)
john disney. My caps are intermittent.
Not like Mr CHEEEsHEAd. i give up.
did you make anything of anglogold on NYse?
I had western deeps, but it's consolidated. seeing as this is the biggest in the hole damned whirl, do you pass judgement?
Their s.a. website is a difficult one to get into. You must load a Pdf type file that has a debug helpme page of about 12 MB.
There were about 83000 adr shares on opening day today.
--- Very thin. but enough to be included in the total of five stocks that made new highs . I wonder why they didn't make the new low page? I guess that if you sell one share on debut day, it's a new high.
If you reply, I thank you in advance, as Wisconsin is at curfew.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:16 - ID#286224)
RE: Soros
What's the bet? We know that if the Chineese curency moves it only has one way go go; being fixed as it is would mean he's not risking much..
( ok time value of $$ ) ..maybe is just a good place to wait whilst seeing which way the wind blows...


(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:16 - ID#431263)
Here's to free speech and freedom of expression--PROST!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:21 - ID#267298)
Slick Dick

clktech - I personally don't care either where Slick parks his Dick,
What I do care about is the notion that the president of the most
powerfull nation on earth can COMMITT PERJURY and nobody gives
a damn..........

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:21 - ID#424394)
Jujube is stable - I think.
No word from him yet. Poor feller!
Yes he was a scrappy lad. Ooops - ISISIS. He ain't gone yet!
He is still scrappin', though with in another fight now.
I should've warned him 'bout opening his door to visitors.
Most folks are okay - 'till they get to drinkin'.
Must've been that left over 'shine SwampBoy left behind.

Could you cook up some of that grub, fix Redneck some trail food?
Maybe warm up some chicken broth - in case Jujube comes around.
And Pieree, please keep that Tec9 in your shoulder holster ALL the time.
Never know what varmits might sneak in.

Could you take the AK and find a good place to cover our backside?
Squirrel took the ought-six and went up the south ridge to cover the
front but from there he can't get a good line on the woods out back.
Grab what grub ya need and take a few extra clips.

Don't worry 'bout my place. Shredder has it covered.
( NOBODY messes with my pet Wolverine - and lives to tell about it. )

I'm sure beholdin' ta you fellers fer yur help.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:23 - ID#207145)
Ego is the bugaboo here at Kitco. Some are inflated worse than others, but ALL are inflated. Mostly we are all pretty much full of shift. Do not be discouraged. Be a little full of it yoself, and you'll be OK.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:23 - ID#219363)
Sailing the seas of ...
Golden CH - Cheers, I look forward to your market coverage tomorrow. *grin*

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:23 - ID#286224)
@Golden Cheesehead

I smell one hell of a big surprise headed the way of the markets. Mid Sept? Surely Ken Starr has more dirt than the latest dirty dress.

My guess is his report will be a shocker; he's got that look of a cat that swallowed a Canary. I'd say it would be pruden to laod up on puts a few days before that report of his gets aired. If he's got half the balls he seems to there will be at least one Shocker in that 300 pages? ready

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:25 - ID#338111)
On Ya Envy!. I enjoy hearing everybody's opinion also. We are all "the market".

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:26 - ID#207145)
D bog
The economy this quarter is going down. Now let's see who don't care about sex or perjury.. They will lynch him. Watch the polls in 2 weeks.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:29 - ID#424394)
RJ - Squirrel left me a radio and some grub.
He took the ought-six and is squirreled away up in the rocks somewhere.
I think you can come over since he has a pretty good field of fire.
Some of the old K2 gang have heeded the call for help.
EF's snipers will have to deal with our snipers.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:30 - ID#207145)
His inner circle is scared. Tht press is scared. Valium anyone. I am happy.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:32 - ID#338111)
Yes - It's a bit sad about the purjury thing. They don't get away with it in the end. Just ask Tricky Dick Nixon. The markets seem to react badly to this sort of thing.


(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:33 - ID#93241)
Of course he's would be too if you had to live with Hillary.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:36 - ID#286224)
Can someone tell me a bit more about Eurobonds? If big Money wished to bet against the dollar using other than Gold, what is available now versus what will be available in 1/1/99?

Thanks ...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:37 - ID#207145)
How about MURDER
VINCE FOSTER. Hell yes he had it done. Vince was tapping Hillary "WHILE he was OUT MAKIN LOVE. Tell it like it is by Golle.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:37 - ID#424394)
RJ - he only grazed his scalp.
In all the ruckus he got jostled and missed his mark.
Gonna be touch 'n go for a while though.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:38 - ID#286224)
....tick toc; tick toc...
...there's a golden pendulum in my clock

...and it's wound up really tight

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:39 - ID#411259)
..... Gollum's Dots .....

Gollum -

I was ready to sign off when I read some answers to your prince post ( I saw the answers before I saw your post. I could see immediately that both of Chass responses are valid, although I kind of like the sound or the second scenario. I began to wonder what all permutations would show us. I came to the conclusion that, under the rules given, I could be sure of my own color dot only if there were at least two black dots involved. If this is the case, no matter who has which dot, I can tell my own. If there are two red dots, one can never be sure. Lets look at PP1 ( Potential Prince 1 ) , PP2, and RJs dots:

Name + own color + Hand Position

PP1 + R + UP
PP2 + R + UP
RJ1 + R + UP

Inconclusive since, of the three, each needs to only see one red dot

PP1 + B + UP
PP2 + R + UP
RJ1 + R + UP

See above.

PP1 + R + UP
PP2 + R + UP
RJ1 + B + UP

Again, only one dot needed
To raise ones hands
We could never be sure
Which smudge is on
Which potentially regal head


PP1 + B + UP
PP2 + B + UP
RJ1 + R + DOWN

Now this would tell me that my dot must be red,
Since I can clearly see theirs are black,
Any raised hand tells me my own must be red

PP1 + B + UP
PP2 + R + DOWN
RJ1 + B + UP

This tells me my dot must be black.
PP2's hands are down, so he sees no red.
I see black on PP1
So my own must be black

PP1 + R + DOWN
PP2 + B + UP
RJ1 + B + UP

Same as above
Only PP1's hands are down

PP1 + B + DOWN
PP2 + B + DOWN
RJ1 + B + DOWN

ChasAbar got this permutation
If no hands are raised
No red is seen
Mine own must be black

Cool puzzle

Do I get the chick?


(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:40 - ID#93241)
DBog 1:56
People vote their pocketbooks. That's #1 thing to remember in American politics! It's what got Clinton elected to begin with. Voters were very unhappy with George Bush after recession of 91-92 and he was--SWOOSH--gone...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:44 - ID#286224)
Yes indeedy...

Mr. Starr could drop a really big bombSELL; I wonder if he'll buy puts or just go short?

..He'll never need to work again!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:45 - ID#207145)
The recession was over in 1991. The press pretended it was'nt to defeat Bush. Clinton is the PRESSES PRESIDENT.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:45 - ID#93241)
p.s. this time next year, in the throes of Y2K and a dead Dow, Clinton will have VERY low popularity ratings ( if he has any at all ) . And it won't be because of Ken'll be because of the economy. You heard it here first.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:47 - ID#267298)

I think ( and hope ) you are 100% correct....

The reason I posted looking for opinions is because most people I
talk to about this subject reply with all the usual crap.

If all he did was have sex they should leave him alone.

What he does in his bedroom is his own business, it doesn't seem
to matter that I point out the Oval Office isn't his bedroom.

Even if he perjured himself, it was only in regard to a sexual matter.
Isn't PERJURY PERJURY regardless of what it is respect of ?

Sorry to bore you, I'm sick and tired of his gutter behavior and people
willing to turn their head and say it's OK, the economy is doing well..

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:48 - ID#207145)
Remember as soon as Clinton was elected everything was HONKY DORY?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:51 - ID#207145)
D Bogg
You were talking to democrats for one thing. Wait till the vote. It will be resounding. People get more conservative as times get harder.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:52 - ID#386245)
G'day John Disney
What does Ben think about the direction of gold?? I'm sure he would know better than most of the posters here. My dogs won't touch the stuff. Maybe they know something I don't.

Aussie golds getting pounded. Low A$$. Money in the bank. Forward sales at nice high prices. None of it matters. My contrarian bone is quivering with excitement. Not the same one the prezzie uses. This one is in my inner ear. Buzzing so loud I can hardly stand it. Normandy today at multi-year lows and still descending. Resolute selling for less than the offer on their nickel deposit alone. Centaur about to come on stream with a world class nickel/cobalt mine in which the cobalt pays for the entire operation. Wannabees galore with riches in the ground selling for peanuts. So many bargains out there--I've died and gone to contrarian heaven.

Might have to get my hearing checked.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:55 - ID#93241)
Clinton, too, is a populist, so that doubly plays well to the press. Face it, Clinton is an affable guy. He stands behind the American people 100% ( no wonder my b#%* hurts! ) . Yes, the recession ended in '91, but the damage was done. Living in a working class neighborhood, I clearly remember people detested Bush. Didn't think he gave a....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:56 - ID#207145)
Starr is a winner
He will probably get his SUPREME COURT justice will take time, and a republican pres. Clinton is the loser, but will get rich outta speaking engagements.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:57 - ID#338111)
Harry Browne writings
Has anyone read "You can profit from a monetary crisis"?

It's a little out of date. I really enjoyed it though.

You can bet that the government in their attempt to avert a crisis, in fact makes the situation worse!

After the crash of 87, fear gripped world economists that it was another 1930's depression. So they ran loose money policy. As a result, an unsustainable boom occured in property, causing a far worse situation, that if they had raised rates slightly after the crash to slow down the very stupidity that lead to the 87 crash.

The Harry Browne tenet about government seems right?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 02:59 - ID#207145)
What are your "working class friends going to think when they are starving....... Oh Clinton in a populist. He is a power hungry dictator.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:01 - ID#93241)
Where's gold going to be September 1, 1999 ( price in USD ) ?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:02 - ID#207145)
Clinton is no having BAD LUCK
His LUCKY image has turned to BUT UGULY BAD LUCK.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:03 - ID#424394)
That's what we get with young whippersnapper Presidents
Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution should be amended to read:

"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of FIFTY years, and been THIRTY years a resident within the United States, and who shall not be older than seventy years upon their inauguration to the Presidency."

That should lessen the chances of getting Presidents who don't have the maturity to handle the job and Presidents whose hormones addle their judgments. It should also lessen the chances of having Presidential decisions affected by senility and hardening of the mental arteries.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:04 - ID#338111)
Is this a trick question? Hope it's higher than it is now.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:05 - ID#207145)
How about 388.00
Goodnight all youse Clinton haters.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:08 - ID#333126)
Nick@C - re: potential ten-baggers
oh... those penny silver stocks...

so tempted i am to step in ...

but how to choose? there's too many of them


hmm... who knows maybe even mim might become a buy...

market turmoil? indeedy. trouble? nah. i love it :- )

dang it. i want that silver 1kg kooka for under A$300!!

would someone please go and short a truckload more silver? ;- )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:10 - ID#93241)
No trick question. Just curious to get opinions. Appreciate it. And won't hold any statements against you or throw them back at you next year. I don't care about Kitco political-correctedness.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:10 - ID#424394)
strike the "not" in the last sentence
Since the article lists qualifications which makes one IN-eligible.

"neither shall any person be eligible to that office who...
shall be older than seventy years upon their inauguration to the Presidency."

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:12 - ID#333126)
RJ - what's your call on gold, sir?
Sir, I bow to your calls on the metals markets so far ( not bad, better than most on kitco ) .

I think you must agree, however, that, when the boomers get more scared, they will turn to gold ( and make you and your firm rich... ) .

Have you an opinion on when this might happen?

unless ... you don't make predictions beyond 90 days...

in any case, you will inform us beforehand if people are lining up in the streets, yes?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:13 - ID#411259)
.... Grizz .....

I am a bit shell shocked by reason of the last few days of artillery.
I would not want to stir up some of those killer bees
You know the ones, with South American accents
And wobbly wiggley antennae bouncing to and fro

I need a rest stateside, but this will be in you favor.
Logistics and planning are my thing, I will coordinate
And keep the supply lines open. Search teams have departed
To all points of the compass in order to hunt the culprit.

I Must somehow get in touch with Rocco
He will be an ally in you stalwart defense
Multiply Shredder's fierce constitution
By at least a hundredfold or two
And this is Rocco on a pleasant day
When he misses his coffee in the AM
I hear they don't even let him out of his cage.

Yes, lets not give up the ghost
For Jujube is what makes America Great
We should all have sons such as this
And our sons should all have
The help and protection, selflessly offered
At great peril to their own good being
By friends and allies such as these

Grizz and the brood can hold out till dawn
After that, it is in Gods hands

Endeavor to persevere


(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:17 - ID#338111)
$400 - $450

The world would be in the grip of inflationary depression, with governments trying to print over the debt of their citizens.

Personally I think they should be raising rates NOW. But of course so many of their citizens have shares and mortgages, which is why they won't do it. By then it's too late to slow down the rise of personal debt.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:19 - ID#333126)
Japanese think bank deposits aren't safe

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:20 - ID#207145)
Sounds like the US, pre Siedman
We have short memories don't we.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:21 - ID#386245)
G'day ravenfire.
How's the city of churches?

Know how you feel about silver wannabees. ecm/leg volumes extremely low for months. When they pick up to 500,000 or so a day--jump in quick. The guy on the drill crew has a brother-in-law whose sister's cousin's auntie buys shares for him.

avl is a screaming buy, just as soon as the recently recommenced fighting gets sorted out in the Congo. If not, it will stay in the ground.

mgl is sitting on more silver than W.B.--all in the ground. Gonna make many squillionaires on development. Selling for peanuts.

Watch the volumes!! Somebody ALWAYS knows something!!! When you read about it in the paper, you are too late.

cheers, Future Squillionaires Club

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:23 - ID#411259)
..... I will answer your question ravenfire .....

Only if you command your subject ravens to lay of my mockingbird chicks.

I have been short gold for 22 of the last 24 months.
I covered better than half of all my gold shorts Monday.
Stops are tight on the rest, and the stops are all in profits.
Every time I see a very large drop in the Dow, and low gold prices
This sends me rushing to cover in case the POG finally responds
I will buy no long ( leverage ) until the breakout.
I am happy to recommend gold for delivery at these levels
If gold breaks $295, I should be completely out of all my short gold
If we get a rally and it stalls, I will look to sell it again
I do believe that January 1999 will signal the end of the gold bear
This is not too long off

Is it?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:24 - ID#207145)
Clinton to start WAR in IRAQ
I would if I were him.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:24 - ID#93241)
If my memory serves me correctly, you're in the metals business. What's your call on gold prices this time next year? Please advise...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:29 - ID#207145)
Mr President. The ground is shaking. Monicas coming.23% think the prez is doing a good job.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:30 - ID#431263)
What better day to start one than today, AUGUST 6, the 53rd anniversary of the dropping of the A-BOMB on Hiroshima!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:31 - ID#411259)
..... Strat ....

I anticipated your question one minute before you posted it
I know it says ravenfire, but I meant to include you as an addressee


Is your moniker related to the guitar?
Used to have a strat, but switched to Ibanez last year
All I play in the blues, and I do that badly
But I do enjoy it so

Righty O

Bill Buckler
(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:37 - ID#256381)
Harry Browne's Books
clktech ( 2:57 ) Harry's "You Can Profit From A Monetary Crisis" is a good book, but have you ever read his first one? "How You Can Profit From The Coming Devaluation".

It was first published in April 1970 and went through at least eight printings that year. Of course, the "devaluation" he foresaw came in 1971 when Nixon closed the Gold window.

That book has the best and clearest explanation of money, modern banking practices, inflation/deflation etc. that I have read anywhere, before or since.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:39 - ID#277302)
Nick@C... Join the club mate.
Inco paid $C 4.3 billion for the Voisey's Bay nickel/copper/cobalt deposit in 1996 and the total market cap for Inco at last count was $C 2.57 billion. Inco is "ripe for the picking", a "veritable steal" for any self-respecting multi-national mining company.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:40 - ID#93241)
Thanks for the comments. I take it you are of the opinion that the gold bear will be over by this time next year. Maybe we'll be in a gold bull, yes? Of course, there's always a gold bull at Kitco! ( Sorry for the pun, all )

As for the moniker, it's just a nickname I picked up long ago. I, too, share your affinity for the blues

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:44 - ID#431263)

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:50 - ID#248170)
Hang Seng Slipping
7269.29 -197.14 -2.64%

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:54 - ID#386245)
Buying on volume.
I was watching a little wannabee the other day. Volume jumped dramatically and price up 10+% in an hour ( .24 to .27 ) .I put my buy order in quickly for a LARGE chunk of shares @.28. Price jumped right over me to .30...31...33...35. All in a short time. If I had been filled at .28, I would have been out by .33 or .34 and had several thou in my pocket.

I cancelled my .28. NEVER catch them on the way down. A couple of days later I would have been filled. They are now .20 and still heading south. BTW -- the newspaper article came out as they were hitting their highs. Don't EVER buy when you read about it in the newspaper. You will be buying my shares!!!

Buy on BIG jump in volume and price going UP. Read that line again. Be quick. Lots of others out there watching volumes.Doesn't work 100% of the time, but 2 outta 3 ain't bad. Just ask Meatloaf.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 03:54 - ID#57232)
Really late for me -
aurator: Please let me know if you need more websites on solar activity and telecommunication.
All: WJC just invoked executive priveledge with regard to K Starr's subpoena of his federally employed lawyers. This will go to the Supreme court for sure -- as I recall Nixon did this to and failed.

I think this news is not good for the markets. No need to block testimony if you have nothing to hide. And -- WJC apparently does not want to defuse the Monicagate crisis. If WJC keeps this up, Janet Reno will be forced to appoint another Independent counsel, while Kenneth Starr is still operational.
All: Does this mean impeachment proceedings will be delayed? Certainly does not defuse them, and gives more opportunity for public opinion to shift against WJC. Do you think he hopes to distract everyone with some fireworks in Iraq? May not work as expected, because anything serious in Ira1 would push the markets down more ( except oil and defense ) .

(Thu Aug 06 1998 04:09 - ID#432157)
Nick----More details,Co Name,----Please ,How did you find it ????

(Thu Aug 06 1998 04:15 - ID#333126)
RJ and Nick@C - thanks for the info
Nick - things are rainy and dreary in good old Sydney rite now.

perhaps we need a charter for the future squillionaire's club. we will need things like a nice clubhouse, nice long luxury boats, maybe a resort or two...

RJ - thank you, sir.
i shall endeavour to keep those ravens from your chicks
( as long as you understand that ravens don't follow orders well )

happy trading and may we meet someday in some Club Med resort, drinking to our hearts' content, reminiscing of the time when we weren't so rich ......

hmm...... those long term gold calls keep beckoning... won't someone short a BIG truckload of gold so I can buy them cheaper? ;- )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 04:21 - ID#316193)
Ravenfire, Thanks For Your 03:19 About Japanese Fear of Bank Failures
This is a subject that receives little discussion. Bank
failures were a large reason for U.S. citizens to lose their
savings during the Big Depression.
What is strange, very little is recorded on this subject.
Mostly, there are just stories told by oldtimers, how
even their bank safety deposit boxes were opened by Federal
Agents. One that I vividly remember, by a friend who lived in
Chicago during the 30's, told of how his father's safety deposit
box was opened after his Chicago bank closed. When the bank
did re-open, the father found a receipt in his safety deposit
box, and the receipt was only for a fraction of his cash. To
add insult to injury, the amount on the receipt was only honored
for 5% of the amount, because of the bank's insolvency.
Is such a story exaggerated? I don't know. Could such
things happen today? Yes, in my opinion.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 04:22 - ID#386245)
I use Sharelink. They have a top 30 volume/% etc. page you can pop up. You can keep all the shares you are interested in on a page and keep updating regularly. Probably as good as what the brokers use. Great charts. Very useful ( ) . One good trade a month pays for it.

The company was ARS. You had to have a bit of ARSe to make any money on 'em. They have been as low as @.15 and as high as @.53 in the last 4 months. Now @.20. This kind of volatility is my bread and butter.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 04:43 - ID#185448)
Wannabes are big fun, as I already said, one of my obsessions. You are absolutely right, as far as Section 1 and 2 of NWL ( Nick's Wannabe Law ) is concerned - Dont buy, when you read about them and buy on volume. One has to treat them different to other kinds of stocks, as valid information circulates in certain circles and their families months before it reaches the average investor ( when it does at all ) . Usually they are traded on so thin levels, one can hear the rustling of the paper, when it changes hands. Buying on a down-move is harakiri. But sometimes they go up like rockets, and then its should-I-stay-or-should-I-go-time. One experience I made re windfall is - when they go up vertically, let them buy and wait until the first move down, as usually there is a final move up, but not reaching the first high. So my policy is waiting for that pattern and sell on the second spike up. Doesnt work always, but sometimes.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 04:47 - ID#316193)
A Web Site to Start The Day ...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 04:48 - ID#26793)
Sales of Japanese computers drop 14%

(Thu Aug 06 1998 04:51 - ID#26793)
Japanese machine tool orders drop 7.8%

(Thu Aug 06 1998 04:54 - ID#26793)
Prices of Japanese cement drop 50% from year ago

(Thu Aug 06 1998 04:55 - ID#233199)
Re: Clintons's Federalism Executive Order:
House Votes 417-2 To Nullify Clinton's Federalism Executive Order

Governors, Mayors and House Work Together to Halt Clinton Power Grap
President Clinton's Executive Order on Federalism, signed quietly in May, was feared by some to be a plan by Clinton to stay in power in the year 2000 by declaring an emergency over the 2YK computer glitch. Governors, mayors and millions of ordinary Americans just saw it as a power grab by Clinton. It would have allowed federal intervention in state and local matters by outlining multiple justifications for federal intervention and pre-emption, rather than stressing deference to state and local officials. The order was intended to guide federal regulators.

Faced with a wall of opposition, and a bi-partisan rejection of his plan, Clinton suspended the order "indefinitely." White House spokesman Barry Toiv said: "We intend to consult very closely with representatives of state and local governments as the process of revising the executive goes forward," White House spokesman Barry Toiv said.

Last month Sen. Fred Thompson sponsored a "sense of the Senate resolution" urging Clinton to withdraw the order. Calling Wednesday's move good news, Thompson said, "But I'm afraid this whole episode shows a tendency of the administration and some in Congress to try to centralize decision making in Washington. Power is a difficult thing to give up," he added. Also joining in the fight to undo Clinton's order were: The National Council of State Legislatures, Council of State Governments, National Association of Counties, The U.S. Conference of Mayors, National League of Cities, International City/County Management Association. _

HotTopics Online Preprocessor
Copyright  1996, 1997 Waveshift Inc.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 04:57 - ID#233199)
Sorry I didn't finsih that last post
So: Does that vote have any real lasting effect and couldn't the order be revived at a moments notice?


(Thu Aug 06 1998 05:00 - ID#26793)
Gold seen to benefit from weak stock market

(Thu Aug 06 1998 05:04 - ID#93241)
Probably could be...but it's obvious there would be a great deal, and I mean GREAT DEAL, of resistance to it. For those who are concerned about WJC's ambitions, bear in mind, history clearly shows that dictators start off with tremendous popular support and maintain it. Clinton's popularity will rapidly erode as our bubble economy pops. He will go into the books with Herbert Hoover. He's a noodle...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 05:08 - ID#432148)
Leland - great place of learning
Thanks for the site -

Full of info the lib media doesn't want to print!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 05:12 - ID#386245)
G'morning Donald
A groundswell of popular opinion in its infant stages?
Sales of U.S. Eagle gold bullion coins rose sharply in June, climbing 62.3 pct to 148,500 ounces, compared to 91,500 ounces in May and were up five-fold from from 31,500 ounces in June 1997.

In the first half of 1998, a total of 579,500 ounces of U.S. Eagle gold bullion coins were sold, up 98 pct from the same period in 1997.

Investors are traditionally attracted to gold because of its role as a currency market hedge, a stock market portfolio diversifier, a safe haven in times of political uncertainty, and as a form of savings.


There goes that contrarian 'buzz'. It is going to be nice to see all you guys/gals cybersmiling again.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 05:15 - ID#26793)
German banks no longer willing to take risk on China deals.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 05:19 - ID#26793)
I wonder how many of those Eagles were sold to worried Japanese? They are facing grim times; on the verge of outright deflation with the whole business and government world begging them to print their way out of it.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 05:24 - ID#26793)
"There is a possibility of Japan triggering a worldwide financial crisis"

(Thu Aug 06 1998 05:26 - ID#316193)
Michael Regan is an adopted son of Nancy and Ronald. I'm sure
they are very proud parents.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 05:38 - ID#432148)
JTF - Drudge Report
You are right, if WJC wasnt't guilty as sin why would he be fighting Starr every step of the way in this manner. And trying to destroy every accuser coming out against him with a smear campaign. Linda Tripp example number one. At one time I didn't think much of her tape bit but now I believe she was just trying to defend herself. God help us all.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 05:48 - ID#386245)
A nice chart to start the day

For all you dipsters out there. Look at '31 and '32.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 05:53 - ID#386245)
The Crash of 2000
Are we a bit early??

(Thu Aug 06 1998 05:54 - ID#252391)
To Donald - Thanks
Thanks for all the great posts and references. Your contribution is an example more of us should follow.

For those interested: Gold in London down 80 cents Silver up a penny.

Not much direction

Does seem that more suggestions that investments be diversified into gold are being heard.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 06:02 - ID#386245)
The Grand Supercycle Peak and Crash

More crashes than a wrecking yard/Asia/averages etc.---everything but the kitchen sink ( pun intended ) .

(Thu Aug 06 1998 06:25 - ID#259400)
My prediction for the price of gold this time next year is 140. Hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am. Sell it short all the way down.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 06:33 - ID#43349)
@ChasAbar__A ,Gold Dancer,Squirrel,et al
There is enough information given to know exactly what color and how many hands were either up or down. Like I said, it would be an easy one for a good trader.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 06:38 - ID#43349)
There is only one possible solution with all the information given.

Paul Gold__A
(Thu Aug 06 1998 07:02 - ID#21484)
SWP1 @ 00:17
DROOY has a website at where their latest quarterly results were posted about a week ago. Also press comments on the results.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 07:19 - ID#26793)
Stock slide doesn't bother small investors.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 07:21 - ID#35571)
Skip, if you are there, this is it. In or out, do or die, sink or swim.

Once the sun goes down the die is cast.

On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 07:23 - ID#35571)
So far, RJ has the best analysis. There is a key point that everyone is overlooking, however....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 07:23 - ID#36965)
Joke of the morning
Here we are back at it with gold sliding slightly again and the market trying to shake of its big loss of last week. Any rallies now I fear are rallies for the uninformed or dimwitted. People must learn to put their money on assets of value, such as gold, as revealed in the following story:

As US tourists in Israel, a man and his wife were sitting outside
a Bethlehem souvenir shop, waiting for fellow tourists. An Arab
salesman approached them carrying belts.

After an impassioned sales talk yielded no results, he asked
where they were from.

"America," the husband replied.

Looking at her dark hair and olive skin, the Arab responded.
"She's not from the States."

"Yes I am." said the wife. He looked at her and asked. "Is he
your husband?" "Yes." she replied.

Turning to the husband, he offered..... "I'll give you 100 camels
for her." The husband looked stunned, and there was a long
silence. Finally he replied, "she's not for sale."

After the salesman left, the somewhat indignant wife asked her
husband what took him so long to answer, to which the
husband replied, "I was trying to figure out how to get 100
camels back home."

(Thu Aug 06 1998 07:26 - ID#26793)
Hong Kong dollar under siege; China devaluation feared.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 07:37 - ID#26793)
Analysts say stocks will continue to fall

(Thu Aug 06 1998 07:41 - ID#35571)
Interesting day
This is going to be an interesting day. It looks like silver is going to wake up again, the DOW looks poised for a morning dropped followed by some sort of recovery into the afternoon, and gold is getting poised for next weeks slump.

I hear the sounds of wailing and gnashing of teeth, tomorrow will point the direction. Today we prepare for the storm.

Sometimes the moon is brighter than the sun.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 07:45 - ID#224363)
I'll man the tail gun and you keep us flying up into the sun. But whatever you for anti-aircraft fire from the shorts.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 07:45 - ID#26793)
Thieves loot 220 bank safety deposit boxes.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 07:49 - ID#26793)
London morning precious metals news and comment

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:00 - ID#252391)
Bill2J You are ignoring the fundlementals
Saying gold will go down to 140 you are ignoring the fundlementals, the shift in sentiment, the falling stock market, the fleeing funds. My gosh to say gold will go to $140 you must be looking at the prevailing trend, the fact that rallies evaporate, that the dollar remains strong ( above 101 on the Dollar Index. You are looking no doubt at such things as the CRB making new lows, the weakness in oil, the falling demand for commodities of all kinds. You don't have the right passion the right beliefs . . you are a nonbeliever, a non hoper, you are a realist in the fantacy land of gold.

You can only be of the school that says, in the case of silver, for example, that the leasing of metal will continue to depress the price until inventories and price converge at zero.

You are clearly quite confused and shouldn't spend any more time looking at the worthless charts and coincident indicators. The price of gold and sivler will rally dramatically - it has been said - so fast and without notice that without a early position you will be left way behind.

Don't throw caution to the wind - buy gold now for the continuation of the bear market.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:02 - ID#45173)
From Donald's post
"There is clearly a new trend on revision activity in the third quarter, which is far more than normal revisions," Chuck Hill, First Call's director of research, said.

I've been harping on this since June. Q3 will be much lower than everyone expects. And everyone expects Q4 to be worse than Q4. The logic for further selling is hard to escape.

Asia is bracing for a Chinese currency devaluation. Read about that Chinese guy who nearly froze to death riding the landing gear of a 747 from Shanghai to Tokyo? Said he was looking for a job -- in Japan! Guess no one told him they're having a depression in Japan. Or maybe a depression in Japan is still better than 4.3% growth in China. China can't handle much more unemployment, nor can their banks continue to finance manufacturing to fill warehouses with export stuff that's already in vast oversupply at the high prices the Chinese must charge for them relative to the weak yen.

I'll try to get some local intelligence on China, the word on the street on devaluation...

The market will go down today. I won't try to guess by how much. Ok, perhaps 100 points or so.


(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:04 - ID#185448)
The major european bourses are down again between 1,5 - 2 %. Asia was down today too. A talking head in austrian TV proposed to buy on the dips - not now, but at the end of the year. This was the first "bearish" statement I' ve heard from a broker for a rather very long time. But he did not mention words like recession.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:19 - ID#35571)
I don knooowwwww.. We might be able to keep 'er flyin today, but tail gun or not we're runnin mity lo on fuel. Mity lo.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:19 - ID#242325)
Shipler still bearish

for 8/06/98

Current Position: Rydex Ursa fund since 6/19/98
Purchase NAV: 5.02
Current NAV as of 8/05/98 close: 5.13

Return on current trade: 2.19%

Shepler Market Timer Returns since 4/8/98 inception: 9.46%
Buy and Hold S&P 500 Index Returns since 4/8/98: -1.84%

Market Commentary:

The question everybody on Wall St. ( and Main St. for that matter ) is
asking is whether we have just seen a selling climax, and whether we
will get a decent retracement rally. We don't think so, at least not
yet. We want to see another day or two of market action before we would
consider temporarily closing out our short position to re-enter on a
retracement rally. Right now we still think the chances are high for one
more lower low in the ensuing days.
The main reason we doubt that yesterday's rally was anything more
than a dead-cat bounce is the extremely poor accompanying market
internals. Breadth was very poor for an up day, with decliners beating
out advancers 1820 to 1250 issues. Also NYSE New lows were a record
breaking 578 versus only 11 new highs. These are incredibly bearish
numbers. Volume expanded again to 858 million shares traded, the second
highest level of all time, so quite a few shares were changing hands.
The question is whether it was distribution or accumulation. We think it
was distributional. The high closing TICK of 933 should provide a
short-term resistance area. If Wednesday's highs are broken to the
upside on improving internals we would want to look at temporarily
switching out of Ursa to protect our gains from a countertrend rally.
Our proprietary buy/sell indicator gave a very weak borderline buy
signal at the close yesterday. Sentiment numbers have not shown much
improvement, but the OEX put/call ratio did close above 1.0 at 1.1, a
nuetral reading. The Rydex ratio was unchanged at 53%, still not a
significant level for an upside reversal. We will check to see if these
numbers improve tomorrow. Until then we will remain short the market via
our present Ursa trade. We look for more sideways to down action, with
lower lows still on tap for later this week or early next week. If we do
get any further rally in the next few days, view it as a gift and an
opportunity to sell more stock.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:28 - ID#242325)
Thanks for your latest take on the gold market. I assume your January 1999 date for the end of the gold bear has something to do with the expected end of EMU related selling.

Charleston Gold Bug
(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:30 - ID#344389)
Yen Gold Relationship
Does anyone have any ideas on why the
yen and gold are tracking each other?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:31 - ID#185448)
Could anybody pleeze tell me, at what time ( Kitco Standard ) Monica will talk about Willie?
My guess: Down Jones -200 today, Gold up 2 yankee-bucks.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:35 - ID#344236)
May have already been posted - but worth reposting!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:38 - ID#288369)
@had to shoot my stoned cows.........
they weren't worth much anyhoooo. My other neighbor who HAD the loco weed problem is negotiating his way out of a REAL PROBLEM he has with the county judge. They ( together ) owned the crop that was destroyed. I am sure Bob will get some time.
This morning my body is revolting because it just realized it has to share the rest of its life with a lunatic...that doesn't pay rent and tears the place up. GO GOLDBUGS!!!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:42 - ID#375108)
Charleston Gold Bug
The simple answer to your question seems to be the cost of gold is Japan and other parts of Asia. How are things in the "Holy City" this fine morning ( lived on James Island for eight years ) ?

Bart's now showing spot silver, platinum and gold up at present. Hey, lets have a rally today!!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:44 - ID#259400)
Jims, another poster on this forum has a handle I would love to have for myself because it so perfectly describes my outlook. That handle is Spock. Like spock of Star Trek fame I do not at things through the eyes of sentiment, wishful thinking or what has happened historically. I try to look at things as to how I think they are. If it does not compute it does not make sense. You have spoken of outflows of money fleeing stocks and running to gold. I know a great many people and have a great many friends. All are far up the food chain income and career wise. I have yet to find one that views gold as an "investment". Most do not even know it is bought and sold and traded. They regard it as a commodity that is bought and sold by and for jewelry processors. If you have hopes that money fleeing the stock market will wind up in gold I fear you are in for a major disappointment. The Dow could go to 3000 and not a penny of it would wind up in gold. It would go to cash reserves. The reason I say that is that even the most amateur investor knows gold has gone down for 18 years. Why would anyone take money out of a safe cash reserve and put it in something that the popular wisdon says will go down. Next we get to the central banks. I feel the central banks have done a poor job of divesting themselves of gold. Had they sold off small lots more frequently and dispersed it around they could have gotten away with it. Instead they sold off well publicised large tonnage lots. In the process they drove down the price too far too fast. Do not fool yourself though. Even though they were heavy handed their goal is to reduce the warehousing of huge tonnage of metal. Considering how many thousands of tons are even now yet available to dump on the market, the complete lack of knowledge by modern day investors and the lack of industrial uses for gold at these prices I see no where for it go but down. When it hits two digit numbers uses will be found for it.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:45 - ID#375108)
Spot Palladium is up too...
My previous post: let's try "the cost of gold IN Japan and the rest of Asia, and its impact on demand from there". He

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:49 - ID#35571)
@Charleston Gold Bug
Although some feel there is an inverse relaitionship between gold and the stock market, gold has always followed interest rates ( bond market ) much more closely.

This is because gold is sensitive to inflation/deflation rates as are bonds.

The key to possible inflation/deflation today is felt by many to be tied to the possibility of Japan and Asia's recovery. Some also feel that higher yen is indicative of lower gold demand from Asia and lower for more.

In any case, the floor traders and their clients watch the yen as an indicator. If the yen/dollar goes up they get more bearish with regard to precious metals and vice versa.

They really should be watching the dollar ( with respect to other currencies in general ) .

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:50 - ID#288369)
I think you may be right.....but now, let's get back to cheering for gold and it's uses! That's what we do here. salud!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:53 - ID#147201)
Gold- Who is Buying
If I had Buffet's resources and his strategy and his ability to sniff out the deals early, My money would be slipping into gold physical very quietly taking advantage of CB policy. I don't have any inside info, just a psyco alignment.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:54 - ID#316193)
A Sad, Sad Day In Canada

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:54 - ID#35571)
Here we go again!!!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:56 - ID#93241)
Studio.R; Bill2J
Studio.R -- Sorry about your cows. You got a lot of locoweed where you are? What kind? Uh, just where do you live? Moooooo....

Bill2J -- Where did you learn to type? 140? One-Four-Oh. You don't use your pinky to it the three or the four ( or the five or the six ) .

Attention -- NPR just stated Lewinsky just arrived at the courthouse to testify. Seriously, it's happening NOW.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:58 - ID#288369)
@if you're talkin' the fundamentals of a market........
you know it's in deep doo doo. The ol' gold market will have a shift in sentiment........hell, they all do. to da' office. G&P to YA'LL.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 08:59 - ID#35571)
SIU8 5.420
Somebody go wake jonesy up.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:03 - ID#35571)
gold/silver = 52.9
Where's the batteries for my calculator?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:03 - ID#224363)
Although I don't agree with the entire premise of your statements, I think you are bang on when you mention that the 'typical' investor ( i.e. one who buys a mutual fund through automatic withdrawals or RRSP/401K deductions ) will not turn to gold.

There are exceptions to this and they include: Sophisticated investors who may buy a bit as a hedge, non-western investors who continue to view gold as moneny ( i.e. Indian, Chinese, etc. )

Having said that, I also think there are a number of events - which if they were to occur would cause the movement of some money into PM related investments.

1. A real financial crisis ( not the slow death of involuntary currency devaluation being lived in Canada, Japan, etc. )

2. Public suggestions by talking heads and market analysts that a 'small' portion of investment should be placed in PMs.

3. A decrease in the lease trade and CB gold sales

4. Continued Y2K fears compounded by a highly visible Y2K related failure

5. A nice $25-$40 surge in the POG over 2-3 days ( lots of PR if this were to happen ) .

In my own personal case, I am continuing to buy PM funds on a monthly dollar cost average basis so I don't really care if it takes 6-8 months for the POG to rise.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:08 - ID#30116)
Gloom and doom....
I find it amazing that the DEPRESSION story is now being told to investors regarding Japan. Is this just another excuse to cover up for an overbought stock market? When was the last CYCLICAL BEAR market for stocks? 1994 and 1990? Investors in stock mutual funds have become complacent, and expect 15 - 25% per annum returns until they step up to the golden retirement years. Conversely to expect gold to fall ~$150 is a bit much too....... Many mining stocks are near their '93 lows! Think about that! Short of banruptcy, what is the downside risk? If you can get a handle on that, then a longer term horizon in the PMs ( one to two years ) could look interesting. Consider also, low unemployment, rising housing prices, tight labor market, lots of new cars everywhere.... can you know what be that far behind? FWIW, I still hang my hat on a currency debacle of some sort. The dollar cannot go to infinity in value while the rest of the world currencies go to zero. The Canadian dollar is a good example. Lifetime lows ( +140 years ) against the dollar and they sell more gold for IOUs to paid in? Dollars.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:08 - ID#35571)
Short term rates falling. Long term rates rising.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:09 - ID#35571)
SIU8 5.425
And spot's jumped up to 5.44!!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:11 - ID#224363)
OTTAWA, Aug 6 ( Reuters ) - Canada sold 168,000 ounces of gold in July, boosting its foreign reserves by US$55.4 million, the Finance Department said on Thursday. Its holdings stood at 2.9 million ounces as of July 31, the department said. It was the first sale of gold by Canada since October 1996.

This is exactly the kind of insane behaviour that the Canadian Government and Bank of Canada have come to represent.

Lets review the incredible stupidity of this sale.

1. Canadian currency is has dropped 10% this year and close to 20% over the last 2-3 years.

2. Gold is at an all time low

So what does the Canadian Government do, they go and sell gold to get US dollars which they will in turn sell in a futile attempt to prop up our weak dollar.

Now maybe if they went and sold a couple of billion dollars in $US and raised interest rates by a couple of percentage points they might achieve something.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:11 - ID#35571)
Now spot's back down to 5.42, action in the pits!

Anyone for GGSR II ? Somtimes the sequel is better than the original.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:13 - ID#35571)
SIU8 5.430

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:15 - ID#35571)
Spot at 5.445
Sterling is stirring.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:15 - ID#30116)
New pardigm or whistling past the graveyard? Fed Beige book story.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:17 - ID#30116)
Opinions, opinions, everybody has got one....

PH in LA
(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:20 - ID#225408)

Does this mean leg II of the "Great Gollum Silver Rally" is about to unfold?

Sure hope so!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:22 - ID#30116)
Anda it gets more interesting all of the time. Shades of portfolio insurance.
Or how I lost my stocks while trying to protect them...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:23 - ID#30116)
Let's try that again. Covered calls anyone?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:24 - ID#35571)
Spot hits 5.480
Gold is starting to move too.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:26 - ID#269207)
here is a lil' article that might explain why WJC is having some trouble with executive Orders and in general not receiving the Co-operation he mistakenly believes he is entitled to .......

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:27 - ID#35571)
@PH in LA
Could be. Good signs anyway. SIU8 hasn't moved much yet though. What would push spot up so quick without the future's moving?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:29 - ID#212197)
@Charleston Gold Bug (Yen Gold Relationship)
You are asking an interesting question which occupied my mind for quite a while.
I only can offer my own thinking. I do not think that gold is following the Yen directly. But it is the value of the dollar what makes the gold price go up and down "as if it follows the Yen".
When the dollar is weak, gold has an upward tendency. The Yen only has quite a weight to determine the price of the dollar on the currency market. Therefore, indirectly, gold seems to follow the Yen.
But the direct link is the gold - dollar relationship. Gold reacts like a currency relative to the dollar.

It might be interesting how gold relates to the European currencies.
Today is a good example. The Yen is down relative to the dollar, the European currencies ( of course with the British pound as an exception; the British pound is completely tied to the dollar ) , are up relative to the dollar. Let's see how gold behaves in this scenario.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:30 - ID#354133)
Things picking up?
Saddam is playing his predictable game of taking advantage of the U.S. domestic political situation. My intel sources tell me that the ops tempo is not picking up at key military bases...yet. However, there are enough air forces in Saudi to fire off "warning shots" ( so to speak ) at Saddam - air strikes of "suspected" chem/bio/SCUD/SAM sights or the like.

My guess is that the U.N. inpection team was getting close to one of his "factories" and thus cutoff their access. This will buy him time because he knows the U.S. will not likely take unilateral action with out the consent/approval of many of the other Mid East coalition members. This consensus will take a weeks.

Meanwhile, back at the Starr ranch....

It should be an interesting Autumn...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:35 - ID#212197)
@Gollum or FILVER-FOX: Do you have the silver warehouse
numbers available?
Thanks in advance.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:37 - ID#35571)
The Dow started out down a little as expected this morning and is recovering as also expected. What was not expected is how quickly it's coming up. Could be a +100 day.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:38 - ID#35571)
I don't think they've changed in the last couple of days.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:39 - ID#269207)
here is a lil' article that might explain why we are feeling more un-settled rather than confortable with the loss of constitutional rights in favor of the regulation of lifestyles and obtrusions of law enforcement into the practice of medicine and other areas of our lifes....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:41 - ID#35571)
SIU8 5.430
Hmmmnnnn. Something peculiar going on here.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:42 - ID#35571)
Spot back down to 5.43
Short interests rushing to put the fire out. Where's my tail gunner?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:44 - ID#35571)
If that's the way they want to play, then I'm going to go downstairs and give the DOW lever a really good yank.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:45 - ID#35571)
Spot back up to 5.450
That's better.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:50 - ID#35571)
@PH in LA
I think we're going to fly. GSR now 52.8. Someone is trying to hold the lid down on the cooker, but the pressure is building.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:51 - ID#369352)
Stock Market Gurus
CNBC this morning had a quote from Abby Cohen that said..."The market is now UNDERVALUED and that the S&P will hit new highs and that the DOW will exceed the 9300 level...For Certain". I'd like to know what she's smokin'...we'll see if the rally holds ground or not...I seriously doubt it.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:52 - ID#35571)
SIU8 5.475

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:54 - ID#373284)
trader_vic_A, Namaste' Don't forget that all these so-called experts represent
clients and firms that have tremendous short positions and derrivatives positions and if things unwind they get slaughtered...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 09:54 - ID#212197)
@gunrunner (Things picking up?)
Why don't you include any consideration of the suffering and economic terror imposed on the people of Iraq by the UN sanctions?

Forget about Saddam for a moment. Ask yourself only this question: how should a responsible government in Iraq act ? Of course I'm talking about a government which has some responsibility for the people of Iraq and is independent of ( and not asset ) of the international financial oligarchy?

Too many people are thinking in terms of media propaganda, in terms of political correctness, and forget easily about the crimes, committed behind fancy diplomatic environments and glorified by prostitute journalists.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:00 - ID#284255)
Power grid in grip of testing paralysis
Lots of new articles:
Y2k and the banking system

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:01 - ID#373284)
If you folks think this Monica/Clintler thing is a three ring circus, wait unitl you see
them go after the First Bunt Cake, her criminal activities and sexual exploits...Clintler and the FBC have played the American people like a violin, showing up at Church, doing the work of the people, weekly radio and or print commentary that speaks to the heart strings of the people...
and the American media has played all this over and over and over...when Clintler and the FBC get smashed so will the media and spin machines and this then is why they are all terrified...

A cynical American public will not be so easy to milk for tax revenues...

And the invisible farmers are getting nervous...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:03 - ID#35571)
Another good sign
Bart has quit updating again...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:06 - ID#147201)
tolerant1 and the FBC
You hit the RED button with this one! The circus is going to turn into a full scal rout. Cheers to the 1 who is tolerant!!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:07 - ID#284255)
Saddam's short again???
Why does Saddam always wait till the Dow's going to tank before getting aggresive.
He's picked the same timing as in last Oct.
Trying to pick up extra money on his shorts???

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:09 - ID#254269)
tolly man ; I just finished reading the Gary Aldrich book re White House
Security, it's absolutely fascinating. Makes you wonder what sort of questions Starr has really been asking the Secret Service agents .

Gusto Oro
(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:11 - ID#430260)
I do have sympathy for the Iraqi people. This all goes back to the Persian Gulf War between Iran and Iraq back in the '80's. The US sent a cruiser to patrol the Gulf and presumably discourage Iranian speedboat attacks of oil tankers with grenade launchers. Lloyds of London was suffering terrible losses because the attacks were quite numerous and we were paying higher prices for oil.

The ship, the USS Stark, was attacked without warning by an Iraqi fighter jet with loss of 17 lives I believe. Saddam apologized, said it was an accident and that the pressure from Iranian human wave and missile attacks, not to mention disruption of tanker traffic, had him in desperate straits.

The US began a policy of reflagging foreign tankers with our colors. The whole thing escalated from there. The Iranians began an ingenious strategy of employing fishing boats to seed the Gulf with WWI vintage mines that floated just below the waterline. A US ship was damaged along with many tankers. Operation Preying Mantis was launched to clear the mines and put and end to the minelaying.

The USS Vincennes was part of this operation. Some knucklehead on the ship panicked when a plane approached and didn't respond to a radio warning in English and launched a missile at it. An Iranian passenger jet with 250 people on board, many on vacation, was blown out of the air. Through all this Saddam laughed. His problem had entirely become our problem and all he had to do was start the trouble.

But we did side with him, protect his oil and provide him with key intelligence. He is a Frankenstein at least partially of our making. --AG

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:18 - ID#298259)
VGZ's 2nd Quarter results.....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:24 - ID#258427)
Somebody know bart's 800 number..??
Call and tell him his quotes are stuck again, pleaseeee..

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:28 - ID#224363)
Sorry Gollum...I was counting my silver chicks before the golden goose laid a big bright egg. Didn't see those shorters on our tail.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:32 - ID#287129)
I'm still IN, as long as I can find a way to keep what stocks I still have left. Naturally, one of the two mining co.s that I had the most shares in was Pegasus... Someday my luck HAS to turn better. Your posting implies a belief that today will be a turning point in gold stocks... can you explain why? Does it have to do with Monica's testimony?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:35 - ID#338418)
Monica's Oral Office experience
I know BJ is going to get out of this and - besides being jealous - I cannot fabricate the necessary story. I bet BJ addresses THE PEOPLE from Geraldo !!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:39 - ID#288186)
tolerant1; Been meaning to say this a long time now...We seem to really
think alot alike politically. I will read something of yours and it
sounds like something I'd say, and even the little funny comments are great and I agree with them!

Keep up the good work! Fox-Man

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:44 - ID#320136)
Pegasus shares.. anyone??? help, please
To All: My posts on this forum are few and far betweeen, but I would like to offer my sincere gratitude for the countless insightful and supportive postings, during this hopefully shifting time for exasperated goldbugs like myself.

I noticed Skip's post, and similarly, I'm holding numerous shares of Pegasus. Would anyone know what the chances are of the banks rendering the shares totally valueless, ( time range, and so forth ) . I'm really sketchy on the conditions of bankruptcy protection in this case, and what the time limit would be... hopeful for an increase in the POG to turn things all around.

Thanks in advance for any info.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:48 - ID#208393)
@Skip & Midas_A & Henry_D & Others
I think we are all in the same boat..Glub, glub. Once we hit bottom we should be able to crawl to shore. But, I don't know if I have enough air. I've been holding my breath since November. Since then there has been only one constant...Whether the stock market goes up OR down...GOLD goes down and gold stocks go down even further!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:49 - ID#269207)
and here another lil' article, which describes SOME of the problems that have some of us a lil upset....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:53 - ID#369352)
Kit Kat
Think about it...if the gold stocks go to zero...then the only place they can go is up...right? We know that Gold will never go away, we just don't know when everyone will want it more than paper funny my advice is hang on and buy more when it gets to zero.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 10:58 - ID#147201)
Her's a wild one
Looking closely behind SADdam , there is a helluva military machine. If wild BILL would approach this with the military capability of the US to rebuild, and thereby avoid some real trouble, there could be a bull to put the last one to shame. Unemployment would be -XX and the flow of cash would grease everybody's wheels. He ( wild BILL ) would come out smelling like roses and all his failings would be buried. Behind SADdam is Russia, China, the Arabs etc. At this stage he ( wildBILL ) has a chance. Next month, he is definitely grass and you know who has the lawnmower. If he is a smart as you think, a large military build up will be coming to a store near you soon.

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:00 - ID#430221)
RJ - sorry I got the girl
Yes you solved the riddle at 2:39 but I solved it at !:22.
The beautiful babe was delivered at 1:25. Even at 55 I was better than
slick willey and this gal was great. Your gold forcasts might
be better than mine but I got the chick.

Back for more, GD

Spud Master
(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:00 - ID#28586)
@Tolerant1 & "and this then is why they are all terrified... "

Damn right: The American "Press", the American TV Networks, the American journalists are ALL unindicted co-conspirators for aiding and abetting this Whitehouse cabal of low-born common criminal, carpet-baggers and confidence men.

The press know that they will be disrepected, ridiculed and their disinformation news programs, sitcoms and programming turned-off by the American people when the totality of the putrid, rotting crimes of this Administration bursts open and gushes up into the light of Truth like so great stinking fountain of intellectual & moral corruption.

The press are scared as Hell at the thought of their imminient marginalization. American disbelief will turn into anger, and anger will turn into action.

America teeters at the brink of a crypto-coup by the criminals in the Whitehouse -- we stop it now by rule of law, or else the abyss.


(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:04 - ID#210235)
@Good morning, Dave
You might give us a quick synopsis in English for those articles - I can muddle through French and German but that legal prose is really slow going. TIA

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:04 - ID#373284)
Namaste' and a giant gulpt to all from the Island that is Long...out picking up my
stor-tite containers...while many suggest old 5 gal paint buckets this kid spent the minimal $7 and bought brand spanking new clean containers with o-rings and snap lock clasp...yes...uh huh...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:08 - ID#411259)
..... Gollum .....

I knew there must be something else
Please, do not give the answer
I want to gnaw on this one for a bit
Damn dots......


(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:10 - ID#411259)
..... Price Update .....

If Kitco is not updating prices go to:

Prices are live during trading hours

Bullion is quoted at spot


(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:11 - ID#411259)
..... Dumb Dots .....

Gold Dancer got the chick


(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:12 - ID#329186)
sharefin ID 284255 & chas ID 147201 similar to my thoughts
as soon as I saw Saddam back in the news I almost wondered if he'd called BC and offered to change the headlines to get BC off the hook for a price...............

go gold we will have to be patient and wait
lets be honest patience is something goldbugs must learn


(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:12 - ID#373284)
Clintler now on goodness...take Hitler's speeches and Clintler's and
they are oddly similar. The Brady Bill has done nothing...wants total control at CLINTLER CENTRAL level...he slams American tobacco and takes money from the Red Chinese Tobacco company. He talks about assault weapons and bans them, yet his buddies with their check books out at COSCO ( Red Chinese ) get a port in Long Beach and containers that have been searched having assault weapons in them...never makes the general media...

Clintler is a pissant, anti-American and a traitor to boot in my eyes at least...

He stands for nothing that represents America...and EnviroWhore Gore is no better...he slammed Bush for his soft stance on China and yet he takes their money...yup...Red Chinese I guess he is a whore spore on more than one level and I am sure more, and of course for all the Big Brother dirtbags out there...this is MY OPINION so EAT ME...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:14 - ID#354133)

What Gusto Oro said... And:

Mine was only an observation of potential military action on the part of U.N and U.S. This relates directly to all the financial/commodities markets of the world. Historically, whenever there is a threat to the Mid East ( read: Western oil supply ) , lots of things happen to these markets ( good and bad. ) I feel an empathy for the common Iraqi people, but there, as with the "Joe six-pack-of-beer" citizens in the U.S., polls show that a majority of the "Hakeem six-pack-of-goat-milk" folks support their leader in Iraq ( although I question the validity of ALL POLLS! ) That is to say, all peoples are in some respects responsible for the actions of their leaders.

If I were to put myself into Saddam's frame of mind and situation, I would COVERTLY be sabotaging and subverting all things U.S., U.N., and their allies while appearing to play by the U.N. "rules". Yes I agree with you that actions on his part are in order. However, being the predictable, despotic, murdering maniac he is, he OVERTLY baits, teases, threatens, and otherwise provokes fights with the U.S., U.N., and the world. Given the two choices, I am glad he is OVERT about his insane intentions. Makes the unpleasant job of kicking his @ss easier to justify and accomplish. May God/Allah have mercy for the common peaceful Iraqi citizen who gets caught in the crossfire.

Personally, ( and at the risk of being labeled "unpatriotic" ) I resent the U.S. being the designated world police agency. Puts the country in a bad position all around IMVHO. Further, I was against the massive U.S. actions in Grenada, Panama, Ethiopia, Desert Shield, Desert Storm, Haiti, and Bosnia. If you want to know why, just ask ( off-line, of course ) .

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:15 - ID#212197)
@gusto oro: About Iran/Iraq and USA
Thank you very much for listing these interesting events. I also was very happy about your pro people statement, because nobody can "punish" Saddam by punishing the people of Iraq.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:15 - ID#335379)
Pegasis Gold:

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:16 - ID#35571)
Never fear, no one has got the girl yet. Keep chewing.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:19 - ID#373284)
Clintler will never make a move against Iraq...he is terrified of the severe and
possibly devastating losses the USA may suffer. He is personally responsible for gutting the US military, with the help of the REPUBLICANs ( I think all their kids should go first, in fact I demand all the politicians kids go first, male and female, equal opportunity don't ya know ) but do not worry, Clintler the Coward will never do it...he would be disemboweled on Our House/White House steps and he knows it...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:20 - ID#335379)
Pegasis Gold:
Hello Lou_Jan:
I talked with the investor relations person at Pegasis about a month ago.
They are the victim of $400/oz planing from two years ago.
They are paying there debts in stock. Which is why old shares are to be worthless for quite some time. They said that if POG hit $400 then the shares might have some value.
Give them a call. I can't find thier phone number but it was listed somewhere on the net. Web page or thier anouncment.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:20 - ID#19870)
@ Gollum, re. Great Gollum Silver Rally
Yawn! ( Wiping sandman out of eyes. ) Thanks for warming up the crate and waiting for me. Just let me fasten this seatbelt. ( Click! ) All ready, Captain. Let's get this bird off the tarmac.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:23 - ID#19870)
@ Gollum
No breakfast on this flight -- just a sack of dots. Okay. Chewing. How do they digest?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:23 - ID#288186)
Gollum, jonesy; I'm buckled in, ready for the ride...LET'S HAVE FUN!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:23 - ID#269207)
of course,
there is the opinion of current members of Congress, that the Miranda
ruling, did not simply identify when the adversarial process was begun,
and when the individual was entitled due process, but, infact think that the trial/confession/convicting process could and should be behind bars with just your friendly police present....htt://
and here at...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:26 - ID#35571)
Gold rallied on 1 ) rise in yen and 2 ) fall in DOW. The yen thing is going nowhere and the DOW thing was just some crazy shorts covering their behinds just in case.

Gold has been hanging there waiting to see what is going to happen next. What is going to happen next is that next week the DOW starts a good sucker rally and the yen sure isn't going to go flying. That sends gold back to business as usual.

Inasmuch as the end of the week often points at the coming week, chances are good that we'll see a little of that tomorrow. That means tomorrow may well be a little too late for saving what you can.

If gold doesn't start to do anything by this afternoon or sooner, I would atart letting my hopes down ahead of the crowd.

Silver, now, silver is another story....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:28 - ID#187109)
I got the fraser letter too........and am taking it all in
thanks ladybug & MTNbear. When something seems too good to be true...........well, I will watch it anyway. Perhaps I'll pick up a little just for sh!ts & giggles........what the hell.

away ( $ )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:29 - ID#373284)
exactly...uh huh...yup...exactly...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:29 - ID#147201)
tolerant1 re 11:19
That's why I posted at 10:58 for a way out for the Clintler.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:29 - ID#207145)
There are only 2 PLACES TO INVEST
Cash and Gold. You go figure out the outcome .

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:30 - ID#424394)
RJ - fever is down some, but still no response
PERL {Pupils Equal And Reactive}. Reflexes in both feet are okay.
We've got him bandaged up. All we can do is hope & pray.
The boys had a quiet night under the stars.
We look forward to reinforcements getting here.

P.S. bring some more Ringer's. This looks to be a long vigil.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:32 - ID#93241)
No offense, but you forgot booze & ammo. Currently I'm diversifying my portfolio to include bourbon, scotch ( for my friends who play golf ) , and 22LR. Actually, I should consult tolerant1 as he seems to be our resident expert on the precious liquids.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:33 - ID#207145)
The direction of the market is down. All rallys will fail save 1 from lower levels. It will last a short time. Gold and cash are the only investments.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:33 - ID#35571)
Fueling up
Well, if everyone is strapped in....

Something bounced silver up a nickel this morning. Gold hardly moved. So now we wait while the people in the know get their accumulating done. Was it trucks leaving the COMEX warehouse? Was it some fund going long? Was it some big short covering because he was going on vacation?

Whatever it was, we haven't moved an inch since then. We need to get this crate flying so we don't get sucked into the gold downdraft.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:33 - ID#373284)
chas, Namaste' and a gulp to ya, the good stuff...Patron...I love this
Clintler will NEVER do anything to rebuild OUR military...that is not his mission nor the mission of his handlers...never happen and I am hoping the only choices he has in the coming moneths and years is if he gets bologna or peanut butter and jelly on Sunday nights in prison... yup...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:34 - ID#212197)
@gunrunner (Piece) Your Aug 06 1998 11:14
Thank you very much! I really loved to read what you wrote.

That brings up more thoughts about the possibility or impossibility of any country in the world to act truely independent, truely "democratic" ( at least in the sense of acting in the interest of the people which a country's government represents ) , and keeping the doors closed for the influence of the OneWorld agents within these countries. These agents can cry foul very easily and get aired and voiced by the media.
We should discuss these issues at times when the financial markets are more boreing than right now.

YES, that has all a lot to do with long term, and sometimes even short term developments of financial markets. Not at least because of the IMF, the UN, and the possibilities of interruptions of the flow of oil.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:35 - ID#147201)
tolerant1 Clintler

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:35 - ID#207145)
All gold needs is FEAR. That will arrive shortly.People need ways to preserve wealth. Cash and gold will do it. Bonds and utilities have topped.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:38 - ID#207145)
Puleeease get this heat offa me!!!! I need a break in the worst way. This whole deal with Butler is contrived.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:38 - ID#35571)
Where's my tail gunner?
NASDAQ's roaring up, and DOW's hanging tough. Since the market hasn't crumbled and won't look too bad by this afternoon, the dipsters will be back tomorrow to start throwing fuel on the great DOW sucker rally.

On the bright side, anyone who feels they missed out on the chance to buy gold at bargain basement prices will get another chance.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:39 - ID#373284)
strat, Namaste' and a gulp to the liquids as with the metals
different denominations are important, half pint, pint, etc...Jim Beam, Popov, and Hancky Bannister as shelf grade...Jack Daniels, Smirnoff and J&b/Johnnie Walker in the display case, look but dont touch...

Of course it goes with out say that Patron, Grand Reserva, Cuervo Gold and 1800 tequilas are all kept in the back, in a bunker, heavily guarded.

Crown Royal, Makers Mark, Sky Vodka and your choice of a fourth can be placed behind the curtain but listed on the menu on handouts on the counter...

That should do ya...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:40 - ID#93241)
chas 10:58
It appears there is a great deal of divisions among the Arabs regarding Sad-dam. This is part of an update I just received this A.M. I don't know whether to believe all of it, but it is of note...

* Iran and Kuwait

As our long-time readers know, another story we have been closely tracking
is the emerging anti-Iraq sentiment in the Persian Gulf region, driven by
the impact of Iraqi crude oil production on collective efforts to raise
crude prices, and exploited by an Iran eager to break out of its political
isolation. Our newer readers can find an archive of our reports on this
issue at

This week, while Iraq had its very public falling-out with UNSCOM weapons
inspectors, Iran moved to further strengthen military ties with its Arab
neighbors. Iranian Defense Minister Rear Admiral Ali Shamkhani, in an
interview published this week in the London-based weekly "Al-Wasat," said
that "our brothers in the region have realized that the Iranian navy poses
no threat to them and that it can be used to defend the Arabs' and Muslims'
rights." Shamkhani added that "The Islamic Republic of Iran considers its
military force as part of the Muslim world's military might, and as such
its forces pose no threat to Arab states."

This offer comes on top of July 29 statements in the London-based newspaper
"Al-Hayat" by Iran's Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Mohammad Reza Nouri, that
"Iran's missile capabilities are at the disposal of the Kingdom of Saudi
Arabia." Nuri continued "We believe that Iran's power is the kingdom's
power, and the kingdom's power is Iran's power. Our relations with Saudi
Arabia have reached a historical stage where we are complementing one
another, and if we have a missile or non-missile capability, it is at the
kingdom's disposal."

On August 5, Iranian President Mohammad Khatami told visiting Saudi Prince
Turki, son of Crown Prince Abdullah, that "all our resources are being
deployed in the interest of peace and security" in the Gulf region. He
said that Iran and Saudi Arabia could together play an "effective role in
ensuring the region's security." Iranian-Saudi diplomatic efforts
accelerated in the wake of the U.S. confrontation with Iraq in February,
and have dealt, among other things, with forging an Arab-Persian NATO-like
alliance to police the region, including dealing with situations like the
one in Iraq.

As Iran and Saudi Arabia appear to be nearing consensus on regional
security issues, Kuwait has recently stepped up its anti-Iraqi rhetoric.
On August 5, the Chief of Staff of the Kuwaiti army, General Ali Momen, was
quoted in the Kuwaiti military magazine "Humat Al-Watan" as saying "the
Kuwaiti army's defensive capacities will enable it to resist all Iraqi
attacks." Kuwait now stands ready to confront Iraq, and Iran has offered
its military might in the service of regional stability and security. All
that apparently remains is for Saudi Arabia to accept the offer.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:40 - ID#35571)
Ah yes, fear will come, fear will come, but for the morrow we see the twin horsemen of hope and greed.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:40 - ID#207145)
Gold forecasts
So far have been futile.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:41 - ID#19870)
@ Gollum, re. needing a tail gunner
I would volunteer, but I'm already married.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:42 - ID#187109)
John Disney
Perhaps your dog Ben can be ANOTHER indicator for us. Put three or four 'picks' on paper and tape them to the fridge. Whichever one Ben slobbers on the most.......well, we have a winner. Couldn't be any worse than reading STUFF OVER AND OVER AND OVER about what these markerts are gonna do because some ( self proclaimed ) 'market top experts' say so.

away.....from people who say too much regarding a thinks something smells a bit rotten...........perhaps the cheddar has gone bad in your fridge John................I don't think even Ben would eat it...................whew!........ ( Ben holding his nose with his paw ) ..............It's a good thing he is blind because he probably wouldn't like what he saw either.........

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:43 - ID#207145)
Forget the booze, you are going to need a steady hand. Sobering, thats what this is.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:46 - ID#207145)
It takes time for positive attitudes to become realistic. Likewise, when attitudes are negative, it takes time to become positive. A cycle in a nutshell!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:46 - ID#373284)
strat...if your hands become less than steady
use wrist weights...uh huh...or get heavy rings, gold and platinum work well and double as money...uh huh...tried and true at Cuervo Central...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:46 - ID#320136)
To Nicodemus
Many thanks for the info! I'll get in touch with them.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:49 - ID#35571)
cross your fingers and hold your breath
Let's see what happens when London closes. Say, aren't those guys supposed to be on some kind of European holiday anyway?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:50 - ID#93241)
blooper, tolerant1
Got good hands...have done twelve ounce curls for years. I assure you, I'm ready.
Ooooh, there's one now. BANG!!!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:51 - ID#207145)
Our guys are supposed to be playing in the Hamptons too, but check out the volume.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:55 - ID#207145)
This Bear might save Gold
Everything is losing money, except for cash and the yellow metal. Gold has been in a range, but steady.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:55 - ID#212323)
Gollum...your 23:32
RJ was the only prince clever enough to rationalize that he had a red dot--they all had red dots. Any other combination would have resulted in an immediate resolution of who had what colored dot based on the hands raised and the dots in view.
The key is that they sat there for quite some time indicating that the result was not conclusive. Realizing this, the most clever among them concludes correctly that he also has a red dot.

This equality of dots ensures that the king's test was indeed fair. Each man saw the same as each other man, and logic prevails. In this case, not the logic of colors and hands but of the cause for the long period of indecision. One black dot in the mix would have yielded an immediate answer. So would two. So would three.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:55 - ID#93241)
Dang, another hole in the wall. Blooper, you're right. This is serious. I gotta go fix "a hole where the rain gets in and keeps my mind..." Gotta make some hay, fellas. GoGold!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:57 - ID#350179)
Amazing, simply amazing
Individual investors unfazed by Wall Street slide

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:58 - ID#187109)
lets see if I understand basic kitcoeaze
when all the foreign money leaves the US stox then they will buy their own wait.........when ALL the foreign money leaves the US stox then they will buy OTHER foreign ( no, that's not right either ) ............wait a minute..................I think I have it now.................WHEN ALL FOREIGN MONEY LEAVES THE US STOX THEN THEY WILL BUY GOLD TO PROTECT THEIR WEALTH AND GOLD WILL SKYROCKET!! that correct? Do I now get a GOLD star for my keen understanding of what the subtleties of kitco market top experts are saying here....................I wish they would tell me more. They are so elusive in their posting style.........hinting here......throwing us a bone their............................ANOTHER clue here.........................A SACK OF BRICKS THERE...............................................a small word of wisdom here...................THE SEVENTH FLEET THERE......................................a wee bit-o-savvy here.....................A FREIGHT TRAIN THERE.....................a whisper of trouble here.......................A FREAKIN LIGHTING ROD THROUGH YOUR HEAD HERE...............................a gentle knudge here..........................ALOT OF SPLOOGE ON A DRESS THERE................. ( anybody tired yet ) ( ? ) ................. ( I am ) ..........................oh well, there is still the scroll button.................. ( I have that working for me ) ......... ( smile ) ......... ( bliss ) .... catch more subtleties...........OR BRICKS.

go plat.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:58 - ID#431200)
John Disney__A or anyone I would like to know your opinion on AU,RANGY,HGMCY,DROOY,DRFNY and ASA.Best Regards Goldteck

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:58 - ID#263254)
Sharefin, your post of August 5th, (9:45am)
I've been to the Denver airport and have seen the murals and the gargoyles discussed. They are every bit as creepy as described, and more.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 11:58 - ID#207145)
Bill Richardson on Iraq
Look out Sadam, Clinton needs a breather.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:00 - ID#207145)
Strat: The hole in the wall gang
Who are THOSE GUYS anyway?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:03 - ID#93241)
People didn't think the Titanic would sink either. Even after it hit the the iceberg. The deck of the USS Stock Market is only slightly listing now...just watch, just watch. ( My name's strat and I'm a Kitco addict. I can't control my habit even when I gotta go to WORK! ) . Later.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:04 - ID#207145)
Joe Sixpack
Is getting his clock cleaned. Gluttons for punishment. Fodder for brokerages. Poor fellows.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:05 - ID#212197)
The Washington Times ...about the stock market:
They hide behind the quotation of Tim Eagle, a financial adviser for investment company Legg Mason Inc. in Baltimore: "The more savvy investors are looking at this as an opportunity to buy; things are on sale right now."

Three minutes ago I had checked the DOW and the dodos who follow advices like that have triggered an impressive rally. The DOW was up 8 points!!
I never really know what's more rotten: The Washington Times or The Washington Post.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:06 - ID#333126)
microsoft intends to argue that it thought of the internet browser first...

my goodness, how low do they go?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:06 - ID#93241)
They got suits. Black suits. They come in black helicopters. At night ( sometimes daytime ) . And they wear Ray-Bans. I think they're from Hollywood...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:06 - ID#424394)
strat - 22LRs are a real good choice.
Also 30-06 cartridges - the most popular all-around round.
Powder in sealed tins, bullets, primers and bars of lead -
though silver will do in a pinch.
Might want to invest in 7.62x39 and .223 as well.

Spud Master
(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:06 - ID#28586)
"Go and change your Disney stock, Sir Robin..."


(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:08 - ID#207145)
Even when they were in the lifeboats, they thought they would return to the Titanic at some point in time. All this conditioning ( long term crap ) is just making brokerages money at the expense of the passengers of the Titanic.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:08 - ID#212197)
I forget to add that the quotation from the
Thw Washington Times was from page 1, today's issue!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:10 - ID#187109)
on gold...........not holding steady....
the more days go by that gold 'holds steady' the more chances gold has of getting itself sold into the dirt. Put this in your pipe.

sell the rallies...

gold is clearly in a channel..........a downward one...........for the past four weeks........uh huh. w/w

( sheller disclaimer ) ...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:10 - ID#207145)
Too early to sell off, more rally to come
Carrot and stick. It is sad to watch this play out. Less sad when in money market tho!

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:10 - ID#430221)
Why evaluate. Buy them all or at least 3. That is the only way to
make sure you have some of the best winner. Not possible to know in
advance. Spread yourself around like Billy.

Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:11 - ID#213265)
@the scene
EB -- When prices hit rock bottom for the inherent value, then I imagine a lot of smart money WILL be buying those items over there. No sense keeping money somewhere that isn't particularly appreciating much, if any. Perhaps the percieved value of our markets is on the too high side and it is now much of a waiting game for their markets to finally get to where they must for the final washout before the chips DO fall here and their money finds a 'new' home elsewheres.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:12 - ID#93241)
I was thinking 38's, 9mm's ( almost un-American, but then so is 7.62x39 ) and various 12gauge & 20gauge. I like to see the whites of their eyes...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:16 - ID#187109)
Spud......friend at kitco.....
NO. I will either make money or lose it. This was more of an excercise for us goldbuggers. Putting money where my pie hole is and jostling my goldbugger amigos. AGULP to ya Spud. I still love you man. Tick-tock, tick-tock........ grind now...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:17 - ID#19870)
@ Gollum, re. dots
The key to the riddle is that the king placed either a black or red dot on the forehead of each. Therefore the possibility of all having the same color dot is eliminated.

Because seeing red on either one or both of the other candidates meant raising your hand, having two red dots in the equasion would disallow a conclusion. Eliminate any combination comprising two red dots.

Once again, because raising your hand meant you were seeing either red and black or red and red, therefore only the person who had the red dot was in a position to know conclusively.

P1 and P2 had each had black and raised his hand. RJ saw no red, therefore he was the red.

ASIDE -- The king had to be leaning toward RJ, because, as said, only the one with the red dot was in a position to know it. ( Maybe the king was a platinum bug. )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:18 - ID#187109)
ELDO.......(welcome back)......friend at kitco.....
true. but how long to wait.....this is the $35.00 question. tick-tock, tick-tock..., really

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:20 - ID#213265)
@the scene
EB -- As an aside, gold won't be doing much 'till the money washes out of here. Good odds gold could/will go lower until the CONfidence game erodes here.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:20 - ID#347235)
It is me Le Neek Rouge!!!!
Grizz, never fear me an mah cusin Jere has done planted boo-coo

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:22 - ID#35571)
@Aragorn III
Quite right. They were all in the same boat ( a boat that kitkat mentioned at 10:45 ) sitting through the pregnant pause ( same pause in tortfeasor's joke at 7:32 ) .

Sometimes in trading all the chartists and fundamentalists just sit there staring at the charts and fundamentals, all waiting to see what the chartists and fundamentalists are going to do.

It can be profitable to be the first to realize.....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:24 - ID#350179)
RJ saw the reflection of his forehead in his platinum ring.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:24 - ID#147201)
strat re your 11:40
Do you think the anti Iraq comments are straight up sincere or a cover for a possible Arab coolition to set the west straight. If it works, fine. Otherwise SADdam is the fall guy. How dependable is your "update" material? Many thanx, Charlie

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:25 - ID#222231)
The following is a post by Tony Bull on Yahoo TVX Board:

Aug 6 1998
10:50AM EDT

Lets look at the past. Anytime there was an exodus from
paper it happened FAST and VIOLENTLY. Look at all
of the world and you will notice that major declines
in months, some even in days.

Those who expect a gold bull market of the duration of
the stock market, will soon realize that gold does not act
this way. The move UP will be violent and SHORT. When
devalue, some do so OVERNIGHT. So will the goods be
to gold investors - overnight, a la "Federal Gold Express"!

The world will start throwing the paper back to us ( US ) ,
when it realizes that the USD has no further to go. A
in the US will trigger panic selling, because recessions
increase deficits, thus more red-ink = lower dollar.

Don't feel bad because you jumped into golds in the April
rally. Think of what these stocks can do even in the
of a REAL gold rally!




The powers that be have made a concerted effort to depress not only PMs but ALL COMMODITIES. Think about that statement long and hard. WHY?

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:26 - ID#212323)
Gollum--"It can be profitable to be the first to realize....."

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:29 - ID#19870)
@ Aragorn III / Gollum re. dots
Aragorn -- Congratulations! You win the platinum ring ( although RJ gets the girl ) .

Gollum -- Hey, that was fun! Time for business now. Let's taxi . . .

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:30 - ID#263254)
If you thought the DIA airport stuff was intriguing, check
this site out:

and then take a look at who else thinks this site is interesting:

Now, that is what you call weird, but very eye opening, don't you

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:33 - ID#231337)
SADDAM - The monster we helped create....Gusto Oro (Albrich...)
The Government of the US, past and present, believes it has the responsibility and God given right to interfere in many of the world's issues. because of the belief that it represented the only true face of freedom. Democracy is a wondrous form of government, the best, but as we are seeing throughout the 20th century, it needs to be absorbed by the peoples affected before it can become effective.

The interference in many of the world's problems, as in the early 80s scenario in the Middle East as pointed out by GUSTO ORO, is but one example of a poorly thought out policy of interference, and mis-management badly gone wrong. There are many others, one of which is the currency dependence we see on the US $$. That dependence will break within the next few years. The Mid East is in trouble, and the US misplay of that adventure is a contributing factor. Oil is one of their currencies, and they may start to use it in a sinister way, to their advantage in much the same way as the US has used its dollar to manage the world to its end.

Do I believe and trust the US more than most of the leaders in the Mid East? Yes! But unfortunately, what's good for the goose, may be taken then to be good for the gander. So, having learned from the US, others will use their new found power to influence the world in many ways that we will not like.

For us who follow gold, and believe in its true value, we will get an appreciation in our net worth, but it will come with a corresponding set of losses, many not known to us today.

Better if the US were taught to exercise its leadership position more prudently. With that leadership does come a corresponding level of responsibility which has to be exercised with extreme caution. That must be the criteria, not the greed and self-gratification as we are seeing from the USA today.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:33 - ID#35571)
time to taxi?
Let's see what goblin's gonna do when he gets back from lunch. I hate to fly during flak weather.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:39 - ID#213265)
@the scene
EB -- You ask 'when'. Could actually be anytime. Today? If say Japan INC. decides they would rather buy their own business' rather than let foreigners buy them on the cheap, who's to say they can't dump major amounts of paper at any time to be able to do so. Then I think gold too will make some moves up.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:39 - ID#212323)
Very well put.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:40 - ID#93241)
These updates come from an outfit in Texas called Stratfor. I came across them early on in my web experience and like to check in with them. Their quarterly and annual reports seem to be pretty accurate, but I take everything with a grain of salt these days. Decide for yourself, there's a website address in that posting.
As far as the Arabs go, there have always been divisions among them. That was highlighted during the Gulf War when Arab fought Arab in Kuwait. I don't think Americans are very familiar with the Arabs and Islam, thus we don't realize how much strain there was among them during that war. Some of this has to do with Islamic prophecies, etc., that I'm not going to go into now. The Saudis, without a doubt, have been very close to the US for a long time, but my guess is they are feeling burnt by low oil prices and would just as soon deal with Saddam on local terms, thus the courtship with the Iranians. They don't want to deal with Westerners ( Franks, as they call us ) in their country like in 90-91. Again, a lot of this has to do with their religious prophecies about "Franks" attacking Mecca in the last days. I had a muslim customer in 90-91 and spent some time with him, his friends and family and learned a lot about Arabs & Islam. I was surprised by their concerns....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:42 - ID#280339)
ABX, XAU and S&P
ABX is the largest stock in the XAU. XAU is I believe is market cap based index. So ABX has a large effect on the XAU. ABX is also in the S&P. So when there is massive selling of the S&P, ABX also goes down. This makes the XAU a very flawed index.

If S&P can put ABX in their index can we take ABX out of the XAU? Besides ABX is the number one hedging firm and a tool of the statists and their war on gold.

Screw ABX!!

Got Gold !!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:43 - ID#222107)
Tolerant1: Who are the Invisible Farmers?
Also has anyone found any deals on physical? It seems that the POG has dropped $10 in the past few weeks, but coin prices have only dropped $5 or so....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:48 - ID#410198)
This post could get a few flames....Saddam is the only leader of a country that has the right idea..
take your stinking UN personal out of my country....personally I wish the US would take his position and tell the UN to get the hell out of the US go and set up your Global crap in Central Africa where they belong

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:48 - ID#347235)
It is me Retired Soldier
Dont know why I lost part of my handle here but my cousins and I have put out plenty of claymores, foo-gas and other surprises for the critters.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:50 - ID#213265)
@the scene
Robnoel -- Got that damn right!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:56 - ID#347235)
In the vernacular of this here now Army....HHHHOOOOOAAAAHHHH!!!! SPOT ON!!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:58 - ID#242325)
If gold should drop below $200 or to you two digit target, we will then be mired in the greatest global depression ever and you will probably be out of a job. Be careful what you wish for.

Lurker 777
(Thu Aug 06 1998 12:59 - ID#317247)
Just one more chance!
I need $286.50 spot gold to buy my precious Phillies for under $300.00 per oz. and I have bought all of my Phillies for under $300 per oz.. I would recommend Gold 1 oz Austrian Philliharmonics 999.9% pure gold coins to anyone seriously considering buying any Bullion Coins. They have a 2000 Shilling ( $160US ) guaranteed face value and are the best selling coin in the world.
Anytime you can buy Pure Gold coins for under $300.00 an oz. has to be considered a once in a lifetime opportunity. How many times in the last 20 years have we had the opportunity to buy Pure Gold coins for under $300.00 per oz.? What was the price 18 mo. later? By January 99 spot gold will certainly be 15% higher and more likely in line with recent 20 yr historical levels.

This is it and I am all in! ( 120% ) Gold will not see $268.20 before $512.11 IMVSHO

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:01 - ID#373284)
Year2000, Namaste' and a gulp to ya...well lets see...who runs the Fed, nobody
knows...who runs the BIS, nobody you honestly believe that pissants like Clintler, Yeltsin, Kissinger, Annan are anything but waterboys ...none of them have the money, therefore the power to do anything, unless they are told...plain and simple...

The invisible farmers...uh huh...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:02 - ID#426220)

REF: SteveIS__A ( ABX, XAU and S&P ) - YOUR comment:

"ABX is the largest stock in the XAU. XAU is I believe is market cap based index. So ABX has a large effect on the XAU. ABX is also in the S&P. So when there is massive selling of the S&P, ABX also goes down. This makes the XAU a very flawed index."

Steve, you are quite right. QUITE RIGHT! Consequently and specifically addressing the XAU bias weakness, we developed the golden-eagle Gold Fund Index.

The golden eagle Gold Fund Index was developed to correct the
narrow bias of the XAU Index and its other inherent weaknesses. Our
index is composed of 10 global Gold and Silver Mutual Funds. Their
investment portfolios contain many hundreds of different mining
companies, whose operations span the earth - USA, Canada, South
America, South Africa, Australia and Indonesia. The golden-eagle
Gold Fund Index is truly a surrogate for the global precious metals
mining shares universe. For a detailed description of the rationale
employed in designing the golden-eagle Gold Fund Index, please
click below.

It's necessary to delete the extra letters "en" en the word "golden" before posting it to the Internet:

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:02 - ID#430221)
Pete-Tony Bull
His thoughts have been mine for some time after watching all
the other currencies melt down in most cases overnight. Realizing
that I might get caught without I bought early and held. Not
a good idea so far. Some of you are still waiting to buy. The proof will
be in the end result. I suspect some of you will get locked out at
some point in time. It always happens that way. Been there done that.
Seen others do that. Don't want to do that at this point in history.

But that has not been the case so far but I have taken advantage of
low prices with all that I could get together. Now fully invested.
Confident and waiting.

GO PM's.

Thanks, GD

The Hatt
(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:05 - ID#364255)
Canada is nearing the criss point!
What is it with the Canadian government! First they send a message to the markets that they donot have any intention of supporting their currency! That tells me that not one of their politians have any understanding of the currency markets which is just an invitation to the currency traders to draw blood not unlike they did in Mexico! To make matters worse they announce that in July they sold 3,000,000 ounces of gold! Now get this! They have not sold any gold since 1996 and their reason for selling in 98 was that up until that point they could not get a high enough price............. With this degree of business accumen i would have to say that Canada is next in line foloowed very closely by Australia!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:06 - ID#288369)
@strat-ocaster.........wasting away in..........

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:07 - ID#35571)
Good news travels slow
Something bounced silver up a nickel this morning and gold moved hardly a whit. Silver has pretty well held it's gain too. Now Hecla has moved up a tad.

Did you ever see the move on the charts where there is a spike, then a long pause and then the rise moves in the direction of the spike? Sometimes instead of a spike it's a move up to a new plateau before the ensuing even greater move.

I think that happens because some insiders get some news, but it takes time for the information to leak out to the rest of the world. Or perhaps some are a little quicker than the rest and realize they must have red dots, but eventually the rest catch on too.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the COMEX stocks look like this evening and review the different news postings to see whats going on.

Hey D.A., you hear anything? Anybody?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:09 - ID#410198)
Old Soldier.....that be the old cavalry war cry...yes!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:10 - ID#369352)
MM - Good post on the dippsters
The common person has been conditioned to believe that this is a non-event in a never ending up stock market. There is un-shakeable confidence that all will be safe because of the careful eyes of AG and BC. They believe that this is a guarantee and that even if the market drops, it will sooner or later go back up....I remember in 1979-80 when the gold bugs used to think the same thing...funny how this goes in a circle, isn't it. But now is the most dangerous times for all stock investors because they have thrown caution to the wind and given the responsibility to a stupid fund manager to protect their life savings, and therefore their destiny. This market is history, Abbey Cohen is history, EB is history, anyone who is stupid enough to think that they are going to make $ in this market on the long side is stupid and has never seen a bear market ravage their portfolio, ( like gold stocks ) . Money is made 5 times faster on the downside than on the upside...this is the rule of commodity traders....history proves this point. Just look at the stocks that are now coming in with disappointing earnings, they get slammed with a 40% decline in their stock in 1 day.

My suggestion is to sell this market on any loss of momentum from here on out.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:13 - ID#222231)
Do you really believe in conspiracies? tut, tut!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:16 - ID#373284)
Pete, Namaste' and a gulp to ya...if you think about is not a conspiracy in any
way manner shape or is right there in front and full view of the entire planet...who runs the Fed and the BIS...grin back at ya...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:18 - ID#35571)
Well put.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:20 - ID#147201)
strat re your 12:40
I have marked the site. This adds some clarification on why I posted to you. "We need to watch this together, yes" . It is an interesting area and quite disturbing to western thought. I'll watch the site, but any further clarification you can provide will be greatly appreciated ( your customer-90-91 ) . Many thanx, Charlie

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:29 - ID#350194)
@ the Hatt @ 13:05
As uncomfortable as it may be for many Canadians to acknowledge your statement, it seems that at this point in time, unfortunately, you are 100% correct.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:29 - ID#288369)
@auratorious or EBuddy or NickO.....
I need teddO's number ( no! tele # ) ...on second thought....muchas garcias ( cabo spelling ) ....G&P to YA!!!

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:30 - ID#430221)
Right you are!!! It is all out in plain site for all the see
who runs the Fed etc.:The debt money system.

And that poor pathetic little man can't do anything about that.

And look how the world looks up to him. Gives him the illusion of
power. But he is just the head of "nothing of any value what so ever".


Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:30 - ID#35571)
Doesn't look good
The DOW scenario continues to unfold. Some fund manager have decided the dip is about over for now. The blue chip defensive stocks are holding about even or down a little as NASDAQ is up twenty. This is just the first few drops beginning to spill over the top of the dam.

We will be setting up for about a one week glorious rally in the stock market as gold goes plunging off into the depths of September.

Remember, you heard it here first.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:30 - ID#369352)
Thank you.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:30 - ID#222231)
Tolerant1, and two gulps to you!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:32 - ID#189268)
The Hatt re: Canada selling gold
Correction to your recent post. According to the Reuters report posted earlier Canada sold 168,000 oz of Gold in July for US$ 55 million. They retain 2.9 million oz. This is the first sale since OCT '96. This level is pathetic and it is this policy which contributes to undermining their credibilty IMHO. I repeat what I said earlier, every country that has engaged a Gold sell-off program has had their currency erode dramatically. Why is this not apparent to the Central Bankers of the World?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:32 - ID#263254)
J. Reno contempt hearing
CNN: "It's going to be a very difficult decision for her"
whether she's going to save her own butt or that of
the slimy one.

This is unbelievably revolting.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:33 - ID#413307)
@ The Hatt: Last week I posted that with lease rates below 1%,
that the only way left to manipulate the POG lower is with actual
CB sales. It is interesting to note that this has happened. It
is further interesting to note that it was not FRB that sold.
They have sold none, and don't intend to. The Americans will
arm twist their friends into selling theirs however: Canada, Australia,
Argentina, or use the IMF to lever more sales out of collapsed
Asians like Korea, and Thailand and Russia?.

The Canadian govt has done nothing to help the dollar because they
have been told by Washington to do nothing, and because the only
thing they could have done is buy more gold by using reserve US dollars,
or raise interest rates. They didn't do the former, and they can't do
the latter because it would throw the country into a recession.

The Canadian dollar will rise when the USD falls. IMHO

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:44 - ID#430221)
True North_A
It IS apparant to the central banks. That is why they are
selling gold. It is their only defense against the high dollar
policy of the US. Canada is a commodity based country so with
commodity prices so low all the can do is devalue their currency
to try and get prices up to help their companies.
RSA has done the same thing. This is called competitive currency
devaluations. Happens when their is a debt money system and a reserve
currency. The devaluations will become, are becoming, a "race to
the bottom".

This is why RJ is going to so wrong. He thinks there will be
time to get into gold. There will not be. Long before lines appear
at his shop the end game will have been played out. This has


Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:46 - ID#413307)
@ truenorth: $55 million is a token sale by Canada, but it is
a sale. I think Canada is being coerced by the United States ( again ) .
Sam__A says that it requires an act of Congress to sell American gold,
and they probably wouldn't get it passed If the American gov't cannot sell its own gold, then it arm twists its "friends" into selling theirs.

IMHO the fall in the Canadian dollar is caused by the perception that
Canada has a commodities based economy, and commodities are falling
relative to the USD. Ergo, USD up means CanD down. The culprit here
is the USD. Why raise interest rates in Canada, when its the rise of
the USD which is the problem? It would trash our economy, and make
the Americans very unhappy. They might be forced to raise their
interest rates as a counter move! This would trash their markets!
Canada can do nothing. This is an American induced world financial

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:47 - ID#246224)
I'm thinking that we are simply seeing chartist trading as the Ag price skitters along the bottom of an upward channel. When the price nears the rising ( bottom channel ) trend line then we have some buying in, enough to pop the price a bit. I think it settles until the trend line gets close again. Enough of this and we have some speculative buying break out. This settles downward after a brief run up.

My next target is 5.90 to 6.00 which could start next week after a few more up ticks to build confidence. After this a retreat to 5.50 of a bit lower. Then we play again.

I do not see any major moves until next week at the earliest. That said, and as a contrary indicator, you all will owe me because I know this public statement will in fact CAUSE the exact opposite of that I hubrisly predicted.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:49 - ID#207145)
Gold will soon have Investment interest
People will invest small amounts along with cash. It should have quite an impact.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:51 - ID#375108)
Mentality of Canada's Central Bankers
Some months ago there was an article in the Toronto Globe & Mail, I believe, quoting an official of the Bank of Canada as saying he'd rather see water in their vaults than gold, so a sale by these dweebs is no surprise. No wonder the loonie is sliding to new record lows every day. By selling OUR gold, however much, they also stab our important ( or once important ) mining industry right between the scapulae.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:52 - ID#413307)
@ Moonie: glad you got your system fixed. We shall now
watch this gold and silver market together.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:53 - ID#207145)
Are you putting your money where your DOW mouth is?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:53 - ID#147201)
rhody re your 13:46
I believe you got them. Rubin et al are slimy behind the scenes riggers and you have routed them out.

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:53 - ID#430221)
The US is not dictating anything to Canada. Canada is doing
the only rational thing given the current situation. Isn't this
what Soros says? His next comment would be that because you have an
unstable situation to begin with, rational decisions by individual
members always leads to an unsustainable situation which ends in
CHAOS. ( OR making money as Soros would say. )

Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:53 - ID#373284)
Pete, Gold Dancer, Namaste' and gulps to each of ya...and now, one of my
favorite subjects...Little CFB-Clifton Mines just keeps pluggin away...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:55 - ID#35571)

I guess so. Hecla has made another little move. Maybe more chartists?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:55 - ID#269207)
What can I say? It is English of a sort....and you would really have to tell me what it was that wasn't clear....really, I don't know where to start.. And I really don't know why they won't give you the 11:23 urls as they are right, so will try another where those two can be found, clik on back at bottom of first page and it will bring up second url!!! ....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:56 - ID#207145)
I do not believe this is a tradeable rally. Too weak.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 13:56 - ID#35571)

Read 'em and weep.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:00 - ID#207145)
Tradeable rally at 8315---8400
Sorry Gollum. Too early.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:02 - ID#207145)
You are right so far about semi--orderly retreat.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:04 - ID#263254)
When children in receipt
of "presidential award placards" for excellence in their educational pursuits are embarrassed to display same because the man who gave them the award has been doing some very bad over. The polls are full of sh*t.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:05 - ID#189268)
Rhody/Gold Dancer
I agree with your analysis of competitive devaluations are occuring. Rody being Canadian I also think there is some element of truth about Canada being coerced into selling off our Gold. As you know 75 -80% of our exports head south. This gives them enormous leverage. Gold Dancer the perception of Canada being a commodity country is there for currency traders but in reality it is not true. Commodities do not represent a significant portion of our GDP as they did perhaps 15 -20 years ago. My question regarding the strong U.S. dollar is this. This policy will contribute to a recession in the U.S. by as early as next year. Did anyone notice the bogus second quarter GDP number. They used an inflation rate of 0.9% to arrive at second quarter GDP of 1.4%. Further, in the morning of the announcement it was noted that the three weeks GM strike contributed to a 1% lower GDP number. In the afternoon after the market s closed and on a Fiday that number was slashed to 0.5%!! How could that not be a convenient oversight? Janice Yellen the trade secretary also conceded on CNBC after the markets closed that Asia will have a deeper impact in that second quarter number and it will most certainly be revised down. Many Asian countries are mired in recession/depression and Canada going into recession or very slow growth at best, South American countries and Mexico are not growing quickly is it any surprise that accrding to the Boston Globe, 87% of container ships are going back to Asia empty! They are paying a premium to have empty containers sent back so that they can stuff them tothe rafters. This strong dollar policy combined with unknown Y2K expenditures and problems will most certainly lead the U.S into recession. Then lets see what the polls say about slick Willie's approval rating!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:07 - ID#373284)
Bingo, Namaste' and a gulp to ya...and ah, yeah, sorta like the kids who strike out
and get to run to first base. Clintler smoked but didn't inhale and got to run for office...or better yet...can you imagine all the red faces around the country when the kids starting asking:

"Mommy...what's a blow job."

case closed...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:07 - ID#287279)
Nobody believes in crashes!
Get ready! The shmucks are desenzitized to dips, drops and crashes.

The Associated Press.
In Atlanta, Robert Brennan held onto the blue chips he'll start cashing in after he retires later this month. In Cedar Falls, Iowa, teacher Alma Bigelow left her retirement nest egg alone. And in Annapolis, Md., Navy retiree Billy Helm merely chuckled.
A day after Wall Street's professional money managers sold enough stock to crater 401 ( k ) balances, amateur investors were ``kind of ho-humming it,'' A.G. Edwards & Sons market analyst Alfred E. Goldman said.
Though Wall Street shook, there was no panic on Main Street.
``It's going back up,'' said Brennan, taking a final vacation in Georgia before retiring from a Buffalo, N.Y.-area supply company. ``It has to.''
Like the 554-point October 27th slide in the Dow industrials, Tuesday's 299-point drop was largely the work of a herd of professional investors who manage the accounts of pension and other funds, making big moves for short-term gains. Small-time investors with the long-term aim of saving up for retirement mostly stood by for Tuesday's slide and the Dow's 59.47-point recovery to 8,546.78 Wednesday.
``I think that's an intelligent approach _ just putting their money into their 401 ( k ) 's and leaving it there,'' Goldman said.
That's what plenty of Charles Schwab investors apparently did, said Glenn Schaul, a Schwab broker in New York who had rolled up his sleeves to do some trading but, with no one waiting, had time to chat. Across the street at Citibank, there was no line for an investment counselor.
Schwab, the Vanguard Group of Valley Forge, Pa., the Janus Funds of Denver, and Putnam Investments in Boston all reported higher call volume but said most callers were simply checking the value of their stocks. T. Rowe Price brought in 12 extra phone representatives but sent them all home around noon because they weren't noticeably busier.
A few miles from the din of Wall Street, amid the old stone and new steel of Manhattan's Fifth Avenue, Dan Kennelly of Leonia, N.J., stepped out of a Schwab brokerage, where he checked the value of his investments but left his money where it was.
For Generation X-ers like 28-year-old Kristian DiGaetano, who has never seen a prolonged market drop, the jolting market was a mere curiosity.
``I just thought, oh damn, it went down, oh well,'' DiGaetano said from Baltimore. ``I know it's going to go back up. I have 30, 40 years to ride it out.''
Investors on the verge of retirement seemed most concerned.
Atlanta federal worker Lee Brooks, 54, is considering moving his money from stocks linked to the market-pacing Standard & Poor's 500 list to less volatile government bonds. Fellow Georgian Richard Hall, 63, may sell some of his riskier high-tech stocks.
``If I was going to start off and invest today, I wouldn't get in,'' said Annapolis retiree Helm, 58, who is nevertheless leaving his investments untouched. ``Most people don't make good decisions and they're just investing.''
Investors have to put their money somewhere, and in the age of the do-it-yourself retirement plan most individuals are now savvy enough not to move cash from mutual funds to mattresses, analysts say.
``There's only three places to put money: cash, bonds and stocks,'' said Greg Wolfe, an investment analyst at LaSalle St. Securities in Des Moines.
Not everyone was sanguine that their investments would return to steady growth.
New York accountant Ted Reisman is waiting to trade for another reason. He's waiting for a market ``correction'' to bring stocks to bargain basement prices before snapping up cheap shares.
``I intend to buy in about another month or so,'' Reisman said.
So does Wayne Hartnett. The 49-year-old financial adviser for the Delaware Department of Transportation moved about one-third of his personal investments out of growth stocks and into more secure bonds and cash funds. Now he's looking for deals.
``There're going to be some great buying opportunities out there.''

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:08 - ID#287279)
Who to trust!?
"Stocks are trading at undervalued levels," said Goldman Sachs strategist
Abby Joseph Cohen, one of Wall Street's most respected forecasters. She said the market needed time to digest its recent gains and has overreacted to worries about Asia, inflation and corporate earnings."

Gail Dudack, the Warburg Dillon Read chief equity strategist, definitely
finds current market valuations scary, particularly with the economy finally starting to feel the impact of Asia's economic turmoil and earnings disappointments. Tuesday's plummeting stock prices underscore the problem.
"I think we have a bubble stock market that could actually be classified as a mania of some sort. These things happen all the time. You can't predict when you're about to begin one, or when one is about to end. But I think that investors today would be well served if they would read some financial history, to put what's happening today into some kind of historical context."

What a difference!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:08 - ID#35571)
counter fire
Let's hope the regular afternoon selloff makes them keep their heads down. That should be starting shortly. Shortly. Get it? Ha! Ha! Shortly. As in shorts versus longs. Ha, chortle, he ho hi ha.

Does anyone know why Santa Claus has three gardens?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:09 - ID#246224)
You asked a few nights ago why I thought Dmark and Yen calls were a worthwhile portion of the $1,000,000 portfolio. Here's my thoughts.

1 ) We are topping on the dollar and the other currencies will benefit by its weakening. US Dollar supply tightness ( not related to interest rates ) is the sole reason for the current maelstrom. These calls are an opportunity to buy at a set price and can be relatively cheap. If the currency thing goes crazy, then there may be some appreciation in these currencies ( vis'a'vis the US$ ) and a tiddy profit to be had for little money invested. These are call options, not outright purchases of these currencies.

2 ) Dmarks would be a segue into the EURO.

3 ) Yen, a segue into the ASYEN ( third currency block ) .

4 ) A few percent hedging against a dollar debacle seems sensible to me.

5 ) You can always talk about it at the barber shop and look like a real top flight investor to those around you who are watching their mutual funds drop like flies! ;- )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:13 - ID#287279)
For Generation X-ers like 28-year-old Kristian DiGaetano, who has never seen a prolonged market drop, the jolting market was a mere curiosity.
``I just thought, oh damn, it went down, oh well,'' DiGaetano said from Baltimore. ``I know it's going to go back up. I have 30, 40 years to ride it out.''
Just to get even

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:16 - ID#207145)
I feel good about Gold
Soon inflows will replace outflows. It's an honest to goodness investment again. Allllright. Go GOLD.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:16 - ID#225273)
MONEX Phone Number
Does anyone have a phone number for MONEX?

Also, who else out there sells gold bullion? Please post your phone number too.

I know someone who wants to buy some, but he doesn't know where to go.

The Preacher

PS. I haven't been on much lately, although I do still lurk. The market has been very boring. Never sell a quiet market.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:17 - ID#57232)
Leading Edge Website, Natural Human cycles vs Conspiracies
Bingo: I find this site fascinating because of its different perspective. But -- you must be careful in taking much of what is there as gospel. It is not. For example, the section on AIDS is misleading, for a fact. AZT for example, is toxic, and has undesireable side effects -- but this is how medical research works, a few steps forward, one step back. One must not necessarily assume that the use of AZT was conspiratorial. Chemotherapy is the same way. The Chemo docs are just waking up to the fact that there are better things to use to kill cancer. But -- you can't just stop using conventional chemotherapy -- something better has to come along. Right now it looks like chemo and antioxidants ( given as 'antidotes' at the right moment. Just wait till molecular biology really gets going and we have 'designer' chemo meds.

My take on such sites as this one is to peruse them, but not to believe anything unless it can be independently verified. Just like in intelligence work. I think one reason why intelligence groups like to scan such sites -- as well as those of Lyndon Larouche -- is that concepts overlooked in the mainstream newsmedia are discussed. But -- the reader must be very careful not to read to much into the information offered -- an become excessively paranoid. We have enough to worry about in this world already without manufacturing imaginary conspiracies to go with the few real ones.
I like the comment someone on this site once said -- It is fortunate that human beings are so likely to have their own personal agendas, so that global conspiracies are hard to maintain. Think of OPEC, or the CB gold sales. Human nature -- the desire for personal gain -- almost guarantees that large scale conspiracies cannot persist for any length of time.
Eventually I hope that we humans will be able to work together as a world entity -- we are of course all members of the same species. But -- it must not be a few desirous to control everyone else. Power must be given to organizations to make a world government -- but -- the people who give that power must do so cautiously, and never let their guard down for a moment. If the people forget to monitor the use of power given to a few, unfortunately they will live to regret it, as they have, time and time again throughout recorded human history.
Sorry about the diversion -- was thinking about that cycle of power and wealth we seem to be stuck in.
--- This is not my discovery, but that of an great Indian sociologist, whose name I have forgetten - Ravi Sarkar, I think. I would have liked to have met him.

1 ) Acquisitors accumulate wealth from the 'people' ( long time period ) . People eventually rebel when too much wealth has been confiscated by a few -- could be big government, big business, or big labor.
2 ) People rise up and overthrow acquisitors -- ( brief period ) . Warrior type placed in power by people. People become restful again.
3 ) Warrior type ( if all goes well ) stabilizes economic situation, creating the environment for the builder/engineer types.
4 ) Builder/engineer phase -- great public works, scientific advances. Time of great wealth for all under ideal situation. Wealth growth attracts attention of acquisitor types, and cycle begins anew.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:20 - ID#246224)
Aussie and Kiwi brethren (and sistren) ..
Note the post earlier today about a fellow Kitco-ite in OZ who could not get cash of A$3,000 at a city bank teller window, but was told he had to give 24 hour notice to get 'that much cash'.

This follows a post on another site 10 or so days ago from a New Zealander who confronted a vast change in the local branch and was not allowed to get out over NZ$5,000 in one go.

I hope you folks are "putting two and two together" here with these whisps of smoke. I dare say that if you do not systematicly withdraw your money into cash of lower denominations and out of these dens of theives within the next 6 weeks then you will be locked in by your everloving, paternalistic financial industry and governments.

For some reason your people are moving to lock the exits early. I do not know why this is, but TAKE HEED and GET YOUR BUTTS OUT ***NOW***, damn it! ! ! And if you do not do it now, then not a sob from you here about your situation after that time.

( In the spirit of paternalism everywhere .. )
This is you father, speaking.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:20 - ID#373284)
Its official
Contempt charges against Reno filed, voted and agreed by Congress...and the beat goes head on a platter...Clintler...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:21 - ID#373284)
although I must say...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...interesting, is it not how all this
seems to be breaking with perfect timing for the fall elections...nahhhhh

Spud Master
(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:21 - ID#28586)
@Shek re. "desensitized investors to market ups & downs..."

just like the 1973 Israeli-Arab War: the Egyptians practiced marching up to the Suez Canal, playing soldier, and then marching back.

About a thousand times. The Israelis eventualy got bored and ignored them.

The thousanth and one time, the Egyptians kept going...

Spud, waiting patiently for the thousandth + 1 market dive ; )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:21 - ID#207145)
Go buy some Gold before it is too late.

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:22 - ID#430221)
"Thirty or forty years to get even". Great comment which I think
is going to be true. At least 20 to 30.

I wonder how long for us Gold investors of a year ago?

Two to eight years I say.

Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:23 - ID#207145)
Jammet Reno, the Waco child killer, gets tightened up. Good show.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:25 - ID#207145)
Looks lile Clintons will HELP GOLD OUT
Weaker dollar here we come.

The Hatt
(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:25 - ID#364255)
There will be blood in the streets!
When the bubble breaks all hell will break loose and the average American will realize that he has been had by his own Government! I have never seen a more obvious ploy to control the markets! They bang gold at the end of the day, they high close the Dow 30 and worse of all they control the media! The great reckoning called for violence and up till now it was one of the few concepts that i disagreed with, however I have recently changed my mind as the American people are far too proud to take this fleecing lying down. Mutual Fund managers will be strung up and CNBC and its puppets will be face angry mobs for all of their blatant deceit! God help them when the bubble bursts!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:25 - ID#288186)
tolerant1; We're going to have a good ole fashioned White House "HEAD
ROAST" aren't we? Picture their heads strung on a kibob slowly
roasting on an open fire. Suddenly...the kibob burns and they all
fall in they fire!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:26 - ID#373284)
blooper, Namaste' gulp to ya...she done be way past tight at this point...
being in contempt of Congress is not a good place to be...YIKES!!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:27 - ID#207145)
Great Fear and Loathing for Market
Straight Ahead. Gold will be a big winner.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:29 - ID#288186)
Approx closing prices...Dec Gold @ 291.40 Dec Silver @ 5.46
The gains didn't hang on very well today. Better tomorrow!I hope..

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:30 - ID#286230)
Gold Spot
BART's price is verrrrry stable. What is the current gold spot price?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:32 - ID#373284)
Fox-Man, Namaste' gulp to ya...
There won't be much left of Clintler when they get done with him/it...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:32 - ID#162118)
APH .... Is silver going to break though 5.50
looks like a fund house tried to push silver over 5.5 after flying by 5.45 support ???? your thoughts

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:33 - ID#246224)
See my post below to the Antipodians. Americans, I must start yelling about this now. GET YOUR C ( ASS ) H OUT OF THE BANKS NOW! THEY ARE MAKING PREPARATIONS TO LOCK YOU IN. You do NOT have enough time to do this 'tommorrow'.

I would never raise my voice to you, against you. I am angery and telling you now, "GET OUT", for your own good. Do not delay. If you do not get out then you are responsible for your own impoverishment.

I have tried to be gentle and reasoning for months here, giving time to let things settle in. Some have taken this seriously and taken cover.

As for the rest of you laggerds .. must I get down on my knees and beg you to protect your selves?

Enough of this. You know. It is coming and you know and you know what to do about it. And if you don't then .. I'm sorry.


No offense intended to dear friends here. Just need to tkae you by the collars and shake you a bit, even if that is not what is deemed polite.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:34 - ID#287279)
Get ready for war???
American U.N. envoy Bill Richardson said Thursday the Security Council would have to respond "in a very strong, unmistakable way" to Iraq's decision to stop cooperating with U.N. weapons inspectors.
He was speaking on his way into a closed-door council session for a briefing by U.N. weapons chief Richard Butler on the breakdown of talks he held in Baghdad earlier this week.
"This is typically Iraqi behavior," Richardson said. "Once again they are repudiating the Security Council resolutions. They are repudiating the agreement they made with the secretary-general."
"Once again the Security Council is going to have to respond in a very strong, unmistakable way," he said.
Is the timing of this development helpful to Bill Clinton?
Is it a coincidence?
Unbelievable, they'll do ANYTHING to stay in power.
Get ready for military conflict.
"Wag the Dog"

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:35 - ID#373284)
So I guess the First Bunt Cake's vast right wing conspiracy does not exist...
Where O where has our media gone, our media gone, our media gone...O why don't you come back to me, to me, to me...investigative media my, my, my, know what I mean...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:35 - ID#207145)
Lot of people thinking about BUYING gold
I feel their thoughts. "Where can I put my money, gold is cheap".
Jim Grant would tell you; Japan or Gold.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:38 - ID#373284)
Allen, Namaste' two gulps to ya...I heard ya...another method of getting money
is simple...go to you your where ever and get American Express cheques... and screw your bank...and that's just one method...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:38 - ID#57232)
blooper: Already have some. I think you will agree that a strong non-US currency is also worthwhile. I will buy more gold stocks when I see the whites of their eyes. Just as it takes a long time for the gold bear to end, it will take time for the public to realize that gold is a good investment for inflation or deflation. We are ending a twenty year gold bear. The equity gold bull -- when it begins in earnest -- will not be tomorrow. All things in their time. The really big one may not be until 2010-2015.

But I do have my hand poised at the 'gold equity buy' switch -- checking daily for a short term/intermetiate term rally. RJ and the Oldman are the ones to watch.

You will regret buying gold equities if you jump in before China devalues, or before the US markets have alot more turmoil. The China devaluation suction will not bring down China, but it might bring down Japan. That could give us another short term gold bear like Oct 97. So -- best place to invest now is physical gold or cash.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:38 - ID#207145)
The media: Slowly they turned---step by step--inch by inch.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:41 - ID#207145)
The dollar is a bubble. It is hinting at oozing out some air..

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:42 - ID#350179)
Visibility increasing (Y2K)
Y2K Survey Finds Widespread Disruptions Likely,1510,7668,00.html

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:43 - ID#373284)
JTF, Namaste' and a gulp to ya from the Island that is Long...I gotta ask ya...who
owns gold equities now that would sell. Nobody I know owns any, none, nada, zip, zero...I'll tell ya who...the wealthy...Kitcoites ( some ) and the nut job goldbugs, and none of them are going to sell...pray tell, who is going to sell and cause the downdraft from here...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:43 - ID#207145)
For me it would be Swiss Francs, Then German Mks

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:47 - ID#207145)
Preacher said someone wanted to buy bullion, back about 20 posts. He said don't sell a quiet market. I think he knows something.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:47 - ID#222107)
Blopper: Get a life
I'll be glad when you start back to school in a few weeks. ( What grade this year? 6th again? ) Then, hopefully, you won't have the time to post those stupid sentences that no one cares to read.

Are you the same guy that used the name "Heavy Hitter"?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:48 - ID#207145)
I'm glad you enjoy my posts so much.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:48 - ID#57232)
Gold equities
tolerant1: As you would say, there you are using logic again. You are absolutely right. But -- there are many who will panic and sell everything if the US markets tank to meet their margin requirements or other debt needs. So logic need not apply. Didn't in 1987. Didn't in 1929. All equities went down for a time before sense returned to the markets and the gold equities went up.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:50 - ID#207145)
Year 2000
What a nice name. Abit of a bloated ego tho dontcha think?

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:50 - ID#430221)
The spring that is wound tight is
about to be sprung. Getting cash out of bank this week.
Money market to be transfered to TBills the day market is down
400pts. Reno and Clinton, can Rubin be far behind Gore?

What about Alan Greenspan. Would someone go and wake that man
up please, he needs to pack his bags.

Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:53 - ID#350179)
I am not responsible for content
May be offensive to some... ( I haven't read it all )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:57 - ID#147201)
Tuenorth re numbers
Tell about stuffing numbers. I think both sides of the border are lyning about the true numbers of economic activity and finacial results.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:57 - ID#254269)
Quote of the Day;
"Expect the Unexpected."

( Sorry, don't know who said this )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:57 - ID#373284)
JTF, Namaste' and another gulp at ya...
Level headed thinking as usual...I guess we will have to wait and see...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:57 - ID#287279)
MM re:y2k
This IS scary:
From PC Week
"...the survey of 128 IT managers at leading companies also found there is a GROWING number of major corporations that are underestimating costs, falling BEHIND schedule and EXPERIENCING Y2K related breakdowns. 72% of companies report they are focusing on CONTINGENCY planing, up from 3% in April, reflecting unanticipated problems."
From 3% to 72%. IT managers are getting REALLy scared. They see no point in trying to fix the unfixable!!!!! Be Very Ready!


(Thu Aug 06 1998 14:59 - ID#207145)
XAU in Plus Column
Not by much, but every little bit helps.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:00 - ID#373284)
Have fun here and I wish I were responsible for the content...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:06 - ID#254269)
House votes to cite Reno for contempt;

( unfortunately, the vote was along party lines )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:15 - ID#280215)
Preacher: Good to hear/see from you again!
Since the metals market has truely been a little boring as you say, I was wondering if you watch the Heating Oil market at all. Being a technical trader, I was wondering if you looked at a Daily and Weekly chart of Heating Oil. Boy, it looks like a decending 5th wave triangle on both the daily and weekly charts. This, in combination with major bullish momentum divergences on both charts. Both Weekly and Daily stochastics are both at the bottom and turning up. This looks like it could be a nice place to buy some calls, with the potential for a strong rally. Do you have any thoughts on this? Any other techies that watch this market have any opinions? Thanks in advance!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:15 - ID#373284)
O'tay, if when you have sex you are supposedly having sex with every partner
the other person has had sex with...who wants to kiss Monica first? aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:16 - ID#431263)
Control yourself! Get a grip, will ya? Calm down! Buy 100 shares of Citicorp and wash it down with 100 shares of Seagrams! Then buy 100 shares of Disney and UAL, and book a flight to fantasyland! AND TURN OFF YOUR FRICKIN' CAPS KEY WILL YA'!!! YOU'RE SCREAMING WILL WAKE UP BEN!!!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:16 - ID#255226)
Osh - The down seasonals end tomorrow. First obj. 5.90 - 6.00. You should be long with stops under this weeks lows at 5.35.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:20 - ID#288369)
@bloOper........contempt of congress, eh? how about contempt of freedom?........
bloOper, would you help me celebrate the Great Witch's demise by letting me hear your thoughts of Mr/Mrs. Reno....don't hold back....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:22 - ID#200334)
The continued erosion of price of Gold; is the bottom arrived?
As long as central banks sell into the markets, no one is going to invest in the yellow metal and as for the United States I believe it is headed into a period of ression, i.e. exports fall due to higher dollar, then followed by an increse in the inflation rate. To many dollars chasing fewer good investments. This is where Gold come back into play. But only when central banks stop selling!

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:23 - ID#212323)
Agree with you about exercising a reasonable degree of precaution...shifting out of digital cash into the real stuff ( fiat though it is ) . Such whimsy, pause and appreciate that paper cash and gold have something in common--not enough to go around! Wise to beat the rush. The only sacrifice is the pittance in interest that you would forgo for the remainder of the "test period".

Historically, the Fed prints paper cash simply the replace the worn out bills. This from a supply that represents only a tiny fraction of M2. As the situation requires, the Fed is now focused on increasing the fraction of M2 represented by physical cash, but unfortunately, the presses can only run so fast. So instead of pulling dirty, torn and worn bills from circulation, they leave them out there--better to have an ugly dollar in your pocket that a memory of a digital dollar in an account in a dark bank. To confirm this, have you noticed a general deterioration in the quality of your money? I can't remember the lat time an ATM spit out bills so crisp that I had to wrinkle them a bit so they wouldn't stick together. The bills the ATM's have been loaded with lately are has-beens...been-there,-done-that kind of bills.
What have you experienced?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:25 - ID#375108)
Have been looking forward to your latest call on silver. Thanx!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:27 - ID#217268)
Consumer Spending and The US Economy ... and other thoughts
As they say, 2/3 of the US Economy is CONSUMER SPENDING. Americans have been, and still are, conditioned to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND. It's the American Way. You are not a full blooded American unless you spend 110% of what you earn, and are in debt 110% of what you earn.

Another line of credit sir, no problem. Higher limits on your credit card maam, no problem. 125% home equity loan folks, no problem. No money to purchase an automobile, we can lease you one...nothing down. Bankruptcy, no problem. LOAN, LOAN, LOAN ... SPEND, SPEND, SPEND. It's all a game anyway, so why worry !! My point is, the economy will not cool until and unless people stop spending and/or financial institutions stop lending. Does anyone see either of these two events happening ???????????????

On the other hand, prophets like ALLEN ( USA ) and THE HATT know their own mind and are giving us the benefit of their knowledge. Many thanks to you and MANY OTHERS who "lay it between the lines" for the rest of us to retreive.

Personally, I am an advocate of the "spider web" approach to financial planning: some cash, gold, stocks, bonds, IRA, real estate, 401k, food, friends, savings bonds, etc.

Now where is my coffee cup ............................

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:32 - ID#266110)
@ Preacher: 14:16 RE----MONEX phone no/. (714)752-1400 or 800-949-4653 (GOLD)
I didn't see anyone post the number for MONEX as you requested.
A point of contact is: John Albrecht @ extension 2275.

They also have a website ----

Hope this helps out.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:36 - ID#189268)
Chas re: Numbers
Maybe so but the Canadian story shows a rapdily declining economy, stock market ( TSE ) down 14% from its high, and a currency down about US$.05 to an all-time low of 65.5 US. If that is lying then you would think they would make things look a liitle better than that. Now you want to talk about b.s, look at yesterdays 180 point reversal engineered at 3:30. It was apparently done ( according to a CNBC report ) with a $50 - $100 million dollar buy program to "shake out the shorts and not panic the retail investor." This is like taking the cattle around the block of the slaughterhouse one more time for old times sake. The a/d line is horrible, expanding new lows list ( 500+ ) and rapidly declining corporate earnings do not justify taodays valuations in the big-cap stocks. Ralph Accompara has it right and he is ridiculed by CNBC and CNN for daring to call for a 20-25% correction.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:38 - ID#242325)
Broad markert stronger than big cap darlings today. More evidence of a short-term bottom.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:40 - ID#212323)
Such reckless behavior! No wonder that horse, Abby Joseph Cohen, broke her leg...
"Stocks are trading at undervalued levels," said Goldman Sachs
strategist Abby Joseph Cohen, one of Wall Street's most respected forecasters. She said the market needed time to digest its recent gains and has overreacted to worries about Asia, inflation and corporate earnings."

No responsibility? Fine. No mercy.

CRACK! ----~~~ ( wisp of smoke ) ~~~

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:42 - ID#288186)
COMEX Metal Warehouse Statistics for Aug. 6

Gold 1,104,536 + 0 troy ounces
Silver 79,136,133 + 0 troy ounces
Copper 56,007 + 226 short tons

N/A= Not available.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:43 - ID#93241)
chas 13:20
The Iran-Saudi-Kuwait detente does not bother me particularly and I'll tell you why. I used to know a Brit who served in Middle East ( Iraq & Palestine, I believe ) right after WWII and came to know the area well. He always said that if the Arabs ever all got on the same page, the West is in deep trouble. That there are the deep divisions there are in the Middle East might bode well for US. "A house divided cannot stand..."
I do get concerned about the next war in the Persian Gulf starting without the US ( as in the terrible Iran-Iraq war of the 80's ) and then we go marching in under the current American C-I-C ( WJC ) . That is scary!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:43 - ID#373284)
Third in the House of Aragorn, Namaste' and a gulp to ya from the Island that is Long
You are being far to kind to the nag...uh huh...

The Hatt
(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:46 - ID#364255)
Would anyone like to debate my perception that the markets are being manipulated!
Do you Americans really think that the Japanese are about to lay down and die! Last time I looked Japan had no debt and record savings! It occurred to me that the USA have debt and no savings...... Whats worse is that these bastards in power are window dressing the numbers being fed to the public. I hate to be a doomsayer but the ponzi game is about to end and what hurts the most is that it will be the little guy that is lead to the slaughter. Brainwashed into believing long term risk is minimal and Funds can better manage your money are tools used to assist the old boys club in getting their hands on your money! Now they have your money they are slowly but surely exchanging it for soon to be worthless paper....... History Repeats and the divergence of wealth continues to widen. God Bless The Average Woprking Guy or Should I Say Family!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:46 - ID#431263)
Fist time since 1994!!! $30 BILLION of FOREIGN MONEY came into US stocks during Q1!!! They are always laggards and a great indicator that this market is about to TANK BIG TIME!! Foreigners now beginning to get scared
and are ready to pull the trigger when the DOW takes out its 200 DMA convincingly! SELL RALLIES NOW WHILE YOU CAN!!!! I BEG YOU!!! ALLEN BEGS YOU!!! BEN BEGS YOU!!!! Hang Seng at a new 52 week LOW and about to take out 7,000! HK dollar will be attacked in earnest and China will be FORCED TO DEVALUE the YUAN to maintain social order in the face of devastating natural disasters recently!!! SELL PAPER!!!! BUY GOLD!!!! STASH CASH!!! HOARD FOOD!!! IT'S ABOUT TO GET REALLY UGLY--Saddam, Reno, BC--LIKE I SAID, uuuuuuuugly!

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:50 - ID#212323)
ONE in the Glorious House of Tolerance...
Using a paper bullet. So befitting. Let it fester... Too bad that antibacterial ointements have been oversold at the drugstore...Heh heh heh.
Such ROT!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:51 - ID#57232)
Markets up today - short term rally in the works?
All: Bought a little select retail, select gold, select energy service. I will decide whether to buy more tommorrow if things look better.
So no one misunderstands, I don't think the markets can go up for more than a few weeks, given the steady barrage of negative news. But -- I may hold onto my gold equities for a longer time ( had about 10% of cash in gold equities, 10% of cash in select retail ) . You can guess which equities held up the best in the last two weeks -- select retail.
I think the biggest negatives are WJC going for executive priveledge for his government lawyers, and Saddam closing out the UN inspection team. Bet Saddam is short the markets, and long oil.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 15:54 - ID#354133)
Chewin' dots
RobNoel -

No flames from me.

I have always been a firm believer in George Washington's pseudo-farewell address message that said "avoid entangling alliances..." All alliances, including NATO, SEATO, and especially the U.N.

But, get real. Ain't gonna happen. Too many spoiled U.S. citizens demand they keep getting cheap oil products, government hand-outs, retirement COLAs, VCRs, cell phones, TVs, new cars every year, Doritos, and MTV. So the electorate keeps electing wimps into office who promise such things. Wimps who also think the U.S. has to cater to all the U.N. precepts in order kick butt to keep the cheap oil flowing.

IMVHO the best LONG term scenario I see for the U.S. is for us to fully regain our self sufficiency. And that will, among other things, require that we get completely off the oil habit - ASAP.

But, like I said, it ain't gonna happen....

Might screw up somebody's trading techniques....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:00 - ID#410198)
gunrunner...the sad fact is the US don't need Arab oil...if it were not for enviro jerks the US
pump its own reserves......that was a great speech then again hes just an old dead white guy

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:04 - ID#424394)
The Hatt - re little guys being led to slaughter
Anybody who has the surplus cash or the cushy job with a pension plan
to invest in the stock market is NOT a "little guy".
When these wine, cheese & steak folk get smashed down to our level
I will not be crying in sympathy for them. They can join us
looking for minimum wage jobs with no benefits -
though I can not say they will be welcome in our world
- we don't need the competition.
Our world being hamburger, 6-packs and maybe some silver coin.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:05 - ID#263254)
Thanks for the response. I read many diverse publications, and
like you, I take nothing as gospel. I simply file it "upstairs"
to be examined again whenever a trigger jumps out and bites in real life.
I do take care to expose myself to as much information as possible
and never say "impossible" to anything.

I am not of the position to be all-knowing, therefore I do not
engage in judgements regarding absolutes. This has been a most
satisfying and thought provoking position to reside in, and would
highly recommend it to others.

Thou shalt not bore God....And boring it ain't!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:06 - ID#43349)
I am thinking about a one week market rally.

What sort of stocks would get hurt the most by inflation? By deflation?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:10 - ID#147201)
truenorth re lying
I may have conveyed the wrong message. You are right about the PPT, and about the sorry internals of the Dow. What I am talking about is the way the spin boys are trying to cover up the sorry ability of WJC to make everything look rosy. If the spinners can suck Canada into something that helps them, it's not Canada's fault. It is the everlasting lying of the Clinton administration that is at fault.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:11 - ID#304282)
Have you seen the new Jerry Favors update? If not go to financial comentaries. He sees a rally until the 13th + - 2 days. I would think this would be at least a couple hundred points or so. I am 100% short right now and I am staying that way. I don't want to miss the big move down. Favors recomends shorting into this rally. Since I am already short I don't think it is worth it, taking my shorts off the table just for a few hundred points. What do you think? BTW, I think we will see a 1500 - m1800 point down day this month. Probably within days.

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:12 - ID#430221)
The Hatt
My hat is off to you!!! No debate except I suspect you are
talking about the Japanese savings being MORE that their debts. While
in the US the average person owes more than he has saved.

Which leads me to believe that I would rather own the Asian
markets right now than the US market. IN fact I do. Bought the
First Phill. Fund a couple of days ago. I think it will double in
6 to 9 months.

Manipulations always go the other way. Just hard to know when.
I just try and buy cheap, somtimes I end up having to buy more cheaper.
And then cheaper still. But in the end I make even more money.

Ponzie, your dead. Toast. A gulp to Tolerant1 would say!

Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:18 - ID#287114)
So glad to hear from you again,I thought perhaps you were fatally wounded in battle with the Vancouver exchange.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:21 - ID#252150)
Abby Cohen is a partner in Goldman Sachs who stands to make a fortune if their
IPO is successfull in the fall. How could anyone in their right mind expect her to be impartial?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:23 - ID#288186)

Futures World News - August 06, 1998 14:45

warehouse stocks ( Note abbreviations--Reg = Registered;
Elg = Eligible; Tot = Total ) :

( Quoted in Troy Ounce )
Prev. Received Net Chg Total
Total Withdrawn Adjust. Today
Reg 450,980 0 0 0 0 450,980
Elg 26,325 0 0 0 0 26,325
Tot 477,305 0 0 0 0 477,305

Reg 213,135 0 0 0 0 213,135
Elg 16,886 0 0 0 0 16,886
Tot 230,021 0 0 0 0 230,021

Reg 333,517 0 0 0 0 333,517
Elg 63,693 0 0 0 0 63,693
Tot 397,210 0 0 0 0 397,210
997,632 0 0 0 0 997,632
106,904 0 0 0 0 106,904
1,104,536 0 0 0 0 1,104,536

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:24 - ID#347235)

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:24 - ID#233199)
Does anybody know if the Grand Jury room is windowless?
I'm thinking of those laser bugs that read vibrations off windows from a distance.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:25 - ID#189268)
Chas re WJC
Chas I agree with you here. This administration is the most manipulative I have ever seen and gets the Gold medal for spin doctoring. BTW Howie Kurtz wrote a book on the topic called The Spin Cycle, very interesting read. Have you noticed how many advisors and staff memebers have left the White House and how many want to perhaps. I think they know he is toast and want to get far away. When Starr sends his report to the Capitol the opinion polls will change. John Crudele of the NY POst has some very interesting insights in this area.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:26 - ID#354133)
Preacher Man
MONEX Phone Number: 1-800-949-4653.

I knew it well. But then I saw the light.

However, tell your friend he'd better off it he shot himself in the foot with a .44 Magnum Black Talon bullet rather than dialing that number.

Contact me for details:

Buy from Bart... I hear he needs the money.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:28 - ID#431263)
I agree with my FAVORS IS IT JERRY! THIS IS A LOW VOLUME SUCKA' RALLY OF THE HIGHEST ORDER!! August 13th give or take 2 days means any day from next Wednesday through next Friday could be the next failed rally top before a NEW PLUNGE TO DOW 8,000 OR LOWER!! The spin meisters for all the big brokerage houses are now DESPERATE to lure in as many greedy, unsuspecting baby-boomer I'm in-it-for-the-long-term-dipsters as possible so they are able to distribute as much BIG-CAP SCHEISS as they can!!! They know their time is short and the squeeze to get out is just beginning to grab the attention of the little guy!! They will NOT wait around to see if Ma and Pa are gonna' panic or not--THEY'RE GETTIN' OUT RIGHT NOW!!! LOOK AT YEDTERDAY'S AND TUESDAY'S 800 MILLION SHARE VOLUME FIGURES!!!!! WE'RE ABOUT TO IMPLODE!!! AND ANYBODY WHO IGNORES ALL THE TECHNICAL AND NOW FUNDAMENTAL WARNING SIGNS DESERVES TO BE SHEARED ALONG WITH THE REST OF THE SWINE!!! DON'T GET CUTE TRYING TO BE A PIG!! SELL THIS RALLY NOW OR PREPARE TO BE CUT TO THE QUICK!!! THIS SUCKA' RALLY IS TAILOR MADE FOR PIGS!!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:28 - ID#246224)
Tolerant1&Aragorn III
Good! At least you will be where you need to be. As regards to paper money condition, it is getting a bit worn in these parts, though this area tends to be a bit more cash in pocket; well worn as it is. I have been trying to hold onto the crisp ones and let the others go back into circulation.

Getting quite a few rolls of dimes and quarters, both newer clad and 90% silver stuff. Also saving pre-1982 pennies. Why? Because they are 95% copper, not 95% zinc like the post-1982's. ( ratio of 1 ounce gold to 20 ounces silver to 6000 ounces of copper ( the historically typical ratios ) , the copper coins will literally represent a days wages )

We are headed for great turmoil. I do not believe that markets or prices for goods will be able to react fast enough to the demands that are coming to create a general price inflation as we would normally find in a classical inflation. Produces will simply be vacuumed off of the shelves. Prices may move up somewhat, but my view is that products will simply not be available.

After Y2000 panics set in for good and the systems we have come to know and love get trashed then the only "money" in the real world will be the pennies, nickles and dimes in people's pockets. That will be the level of wages and prices for the common man. A few will have silver and gold, but they will never use it in the local setting for fear of being knocked off. Barter trade to sustain life at a subsistance level will be the new money. The entire banking system will have to be rebuild from scratch.

I have read the testimony of a risk analyst who consults with banks here about overseas business. She said that American banks are pulling back their resources and plan to be completely out of play internationally from Dec'99 through Mar'00. Of course they can not hedge their positions and so there is no way they will be able to justify putting their butts in a potential meat grinder. The Europeans and finally the Asians will recognize this and do likewise. This effectively extinguishes international ( and even, for larger countries, some regional ) trade. Just this move by itself will create the greatest depression this modern world has ever seen. To rebuild these international relationships will take decades.

Even if Y2000 doesn't completely wack our infrastructure, people's and institutions actions and reactions will garrantee that we descend into the abyss.

I have sought my Lord's word about what will come and He has said to me that mid-September will be the beginning of panics. Prepare yourselves. His word has never failed. His judgement of the nations has already begun but is in no wise over. It will last 7 years; until 2005. It is best if we bow the knee to His sovereign will now then to live as if we had the power to change the courses which He has set. The nations will be toppled. Nothing will be spared. This is to prove that "all other ground is sinking sand" and that "He is the solid Rock on whom I stand". The only peace will be in the hearts of those who have surrendered to the Prince of Peace. May this be your future as well.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:28 - ID#434108)
Paul Erdman's column at cbs.marketwatch
"Asia heads into relapse"

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:30 - ID#424394)
From the mobile home parks and apartment buildings
Those of us who have not a mosquito's chance in a blizzard
of ever qualifying for a loan on a real brick & 2x6 house
don't mind seeing the 30K$ ( & 401K ) middle class taken down.
If the digicash crowd lose their cards and money accounts
then they will have to use cash & checks like we do.
Gold & Silver coin may be harbingers of a great leveling
if they every make it back into circulation.
That is why middle & upper classes don't want it to happen.
They would have to stoop to using grubby money like we do.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:31 - ID#147201)
strat Arab detente
My concern is that if all Arabs would get together, due to outside pressure, it could be scary. The way Israel is acting and the somewhat appeal SADdam has in the area , considering the role of the US and the UN it appears possible that a detente could form. We really don't need their oil, but again this is a ploy that fits the situation. If SADdam is playing Br rabbit, and the rest of the area sees a way out, what do you think will happen? Due to the highhandedness of this US administration, I can see a rapid coalescence of Arab power coming on strong with their oil. They hate Israel and backed to the wall it can be dangerous. If we had any competent brains in the administration , this would have been defused a long time ago.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:38 - ID#288186)
Good story about Platinum's nice gains....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:39 - ID#252150)
The idiots that run our Cdn gov't are presiding over the destruction of our
economy. The low Cdn$ policy is allowing the U.S. vultures to buy up our good natural resource companies at ridiculous prices. 2 weeks ago they took over Northern Energy & this week Weyerhauser took over a big modern paper mill in Dryden, Ont. It's difficult for me to believe that our situation could become this dire in the absence of a conspiracy.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:39 - ID#424394)
Allen(USA) copper coins
At your historic 6000 to 1, Gold to Copper ratio
If Gold Makes it to $6000/oz then the old pennies are 10 cents.
Maybe when the fancy yuppie coffee shops go out of business
I could buy a cup of coffee with a few copper coins.
Copper & Silver - the coins of the lower classes.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:43 - ID#304282)
You don't have to convince me. Even the bears think the down side target is at worst ( or best if your short ) 7000. Just as this bull market went to the upmost extreme, the bear will also. I will not be long equities again, except for a short term trade or two, until after Jan 1 2000. It will probably be after that. At that time I expect to see a Dow 2500-3000, and a fat stack of cash made from my shorts.

On a side note, look at how much the nasdaq fell WHILE THE INTERNETS WENT UP! The internets have a very large weighting in the indexes and helped keep the losses respectable. The day of THE CRASH, as it will be forever referred to, I expect the internets to be down 75-100 points each. Imagine what that will do the nasdaq average!

I have a couple of blank tapes setting by my VCR, so when I wake up and see the futures lock limit down, I can have a record of history being made.

Remember the 87 crash was triggered by a 1/4% raise in interest rates. ANYTHING could trigger THE CRASH!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:44 - ID#434108)
No look, Guys...
who among you, would throw the first stone...


perhaps we all live in
"glass-houses" ...

Would you blame Monex, for your loss/es

If you were among the 'blind'
following the 'blind'...

who can you "blame"..
but your-self/-selves.

The founders/originators/entrepreneurs,
were, no-doubt, good businessmen.

They saw the hand-writing on the wall,
perhaps in the 60's,
when silver-coins, were also ...
.... - like gold coins before them - ....
.... 'shaved' .

Find a need and fill it....
isn't that the law of supply and demand,
in other words....

If you lost money, following "Monex's advice";
maybe you were paying with:
their commissions, &
your possible losses ......

until; it hurt enough,
to motivate you
to either...
do your own homework,
or find your homework/timing-advice...
done for you,

Sharing our individual & mutual experience,
is valuable indeed; but
blamming another/others.... for our loss/es,
is another form of...
passing the buck.

'good luck'.

P.S. Wisdom lies in learning to sift the wheat from the chaff.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:51 - ID#431263)
1. EUPHORIA! ( JULY, 1997, JULY 17, 1998 )
2. DOUBT! ( Where we are now! )
3. FEAR! ( Where we will be by the end of August! )
4. PANIC! ( Where we will be by the end of September! )
5. CAPITULATION! ( Where we will be by the end of October! )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:52 - ID#207145)
Nice call!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:52 - ID#354133)
I assure you that, having been there ( and well below that level of existence ) , I empathize with your situation. But even a small twist of "fate" and I could have descended ever lower. You have my utmost and sincere hope that you will someday attain the heights to which you aspire to ascend. I am fortunate to have clawed myself out of those depths. But, alas, we all may even be forced "back to the basics" again someday.

Be careful what you wish for.

P.S. Though some of my posts may sound offensive to some, that is not my wish. Standard disclaimers apply.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:54 - ID#147201)
Allen re your 16:28
Please email me at I believe your thinking is at or very close to the point. Thanx, Charlie

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:54 - ID#412286)
Here is the story. The US is the biggest democracy which is actively working to undermine social protections for working people even when they have paid for them. Having US companies become powerful in Canada ( along with NAFTA ) is a way to bring the Canadian workers down to the level of the Americans. Remember the word "reform" used throughout the means layoff workers, reduce benefits, end entitlements, crush labor unions, allow capital all freedom of movement ( so it can blackmail and control govts ) , protect capital from any adverse action by govt stemming from popular discontent or abuse by capital. This is why the US so ardently wants REFORM as the current benefits and situations in other advanced countries makes the US look like a labor abuser. They are afraid that when the recession hits these divergences will be obvious causing problems for the Corporatists and their Wall St and big Media ( CNBC ) handmaidens. Remember, the chimera of a strong economy along with a correlating stock bull makes people think they shouldnt be complaining and should accept their lot. Hitler had the best chamber music playing as victims arrived at Auschwitz.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:57 - ID#424394)
Some of the 1982 pennies were 95% copper
Is there any difference in mint marks or other obvious differences
between zinc and copper versions of the same 1982 mint year
other than the zinc being 10 grains lighter
( 38.58 grains versus 48 grains )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 16:58 - ID#219363)
Bear Market
This isn't a bear market. Could be the beginning. You'll know it's a bear when it goes down every day for so long that you sound like a nut when you say you expect it to rise. That's a Bear. When all of your friends laugh at you because you're going to buy some stocks, that's a bear. When we have a bear stock market, people will talk about speculators buying into it as if they were gold bugs, and stock investors will chat on sites like these about the merits of owning stock, and how people are going to miss out on the biggest upward trend the world has ever seen. You'll know it's a bear when you get warnings from friends that tell you that the price of gold is over-inflated and that stocks have no down-side risk. You'll know it's a bear when someone is holding a tech stock, it drops another 50%, and they just smile and say it's all par for the course, and that things are bound to turn around someday. Check out some of those Asian graphs.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:01 - ID#354133)

Good word.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:02 - ID#410198)
PLUG FOR BART....Just had a chat with my supplier...we got onto the subject of Mounties...they are
almost impossible to get in the US seems someone in Canada bought them all .....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:05 - ID#33180)
FSASX hits new 6-year low
I've been maintaining a spreadsheet of closing prices in Fidelity Select ( formerly American ) Gold going back to April 1992. The low in 1992 was 11.66. It was not broken for 6 years until today's close of 11.64.

Remember that before Malcolm McNaught retired from the fund, he had a large holding of Bre-X, which for several years inflated the fund's share price as BRE-X ballooned in value ( and then popped in 1997 ) .

Remember also that the value of the dollar has soared, making the stated share price in US dollars very low when translating the newly added foreign gold holdings, just as it also distorts the artificially low price of gold metal when quoted in US dollars.

Still in all, it remains significant to me that FSASX today is lower than it was before the great 1993 reawakening of gold shares, which marked my own personal first interest in the gold complex.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:06 - ID#33180)
That's FSAGX
not FSASX.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:06 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 29.78. The 144 day moving average is 29.46. ( I used Monex at $288.00 and $5.45 for all calculations tonight )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:07 - ID#207145)
This is not a tradeable rally for me
But the next one will be. Not safe enough to trade. I not be nimble.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:07 - ID#431263)
Same goes for GRFRX and BGEIX!! Bottoms UP!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:11 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .220. The 144 day moving average is .253. There have been only 7 occasions where the XAU closed in the 63.XX range. Ranked according to the gold price, today is #5. The #1 is the same as last night.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:13 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 52.84. The 144 day moving average is 50.66

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:15 - ID#409349)
You might try Republic National Bank in NYC. Can get phone number from NYC info. They have a quality reputation.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:16 - ID#431263)
The face that lunched a thousand lips! : ) MONICA LISA!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:16 - ID#26793)
The numbers below are all 144 day moving averages.
Spot gold $296.68; spot silver $5.90; XAU 75.22

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:17 - ID#409349)
Been reading your morning posts with URL's of international news for awhile. Thanks for your effort!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:19 - ID#26793)
The numbers below are all 233 day moving averages.
Spot gold $301.63; spot silver $5.63; XAU 79.54; Dow/Gold Ratio 27.91

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:20 - ID#26793)
Thanks, glad to do it.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:23 - ID#26793)
Long term averages.
It became legal for Americans to hold gold again on January 1, 1975. The average of all the trading days since that date is $348.88. The average price for silver during the same period is $6.79

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:25 - ID#57232)
I like the way you think!
Bingo: We are of like minds -- the internet is 'the awakening'. High level information processing -- higher level than simple truth or falsehood. With the internet, we humans are exposed to shades of truth and falsehood. It is up to us to dermine what the truth or falsehood really is.
And we already knew this -- that good and evil do not come in only two flavors. The internet ( information revolution ) just makes it easier for us to develop a better model idea of the reality around us. The equity markets are a microcosm of this ( perceived ) reality as well.
Let us hope that we evolve intellectually.

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:26 - ID#377196)
Stock market crashes
don't behave in an orderly manner. Or in a predictable way. The
standard is for a sharp drop then a ralley then the big one. Don't
count on it. Why? Because that is what EVERYONE else is looking for.
So how can the market accomondate you. The Bear must separate you
from your money. It will do this with only the shortest of up moves.

It will just keep selling off and off and off .....tis a possibiity.

Thanks, GD Oh yes, and golds will just keep going up and up

with only small down days never giving you the chance to get in at the
right price. It already gave you that chance. It's over.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:29 - ID#200337)
CHANCE TO BE A PARTNER ( I'll do all the work) in a real gold deal
If gold is what you want I have got the most beautiful place on earth to mine it.I control over 200,000 acres in the Bukon Jedeh gold distric in Liberia, West Africa. Proven reserves with a completed camp. Look over at the Kitco Advertisment.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:31 - ID#212323)
Thanks for your reply. It's as though we're living sub-parallel lives. When they send the padded wagon for me, at least I'll have the comfort of knowing that you are already waiting for me inside, or else I get to take a road trip while they head over to pick you up next.
Of course, should either of us see the wagon coming and manage to avoid capture, we'll surely give the other guy the "heads-up". Nice doing time with ya, on this nifty big blue marble. Life is as it should be...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:32 - ID#207145)
This rally is a fake out. Tradeable, but not for me. Need to see a capitualization...When I see that, I will wade in for awhile. This rally fizzles Wednesday.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:34 - ID#212323)
Perhaps impossible... I'm curious what the weighted-average would be over that time for the price of gold. You know... daily price weighted by the volume traded that day. THAT would be an interesting piece of info.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:34 - ID#269207)
Do you think that it might again be unlawfull Americans to hold Gold??

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:36 - ID#249407)
Regarding your 13:32 post.

Argentina is the exception to your generalization. Argentina's currency is fixed by law to the value of US dollar [one USD = one A. Paso] They are the exception having sold all their gold last summer. In fact, the Argentine Paso has gained in strength since selling, but this has to do with "Currency Board" rather than hard money.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:38 - ID#57232)
1 week rally? or two?
Gollum - I thought I was being conservative, deciding on a 2 week rally. I am still a relative neophyte on this, and was using the Fibonacci series analysis al la Fischer ( at least I think I am ) . My guess is that the markets will rally until they are about 64% up from the last recent top. At that point I would sell if I were more confident. Figured two weeks would be when the bounce up is still rising.
Most of my 'trading money' is in mutual funds -- already long term shares. So there is no cost to me if I sell them at any time. At the present I do not plan to sell the long term gold mutual funds, even though they have done much worse than the retail mutual funds.
My guess is - paraphrasing the Oldman -- the equities bear market is here, but the boomers don't know it yet.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:38 - ID#233199)
Looking for Canadian coin dealer
Can somone recommend a coin dealer in the Vancouver area? Or even better in Victoria?


Steven ( )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:41 - ID#410198)
RLM...a morning without Donald is like a day without sunshine..thanks Donald

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:45 - ID#431263)
To be followed by a DRAMATIC DOWDUMP IN THE AFTERNOON INTO THE CLOSE FOR THE LOOOOOONG WEAAAAKEND! Don't get snookered by Mary Farrel's seductively sweet smile! Off camera she's sneerin' at ya'!!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:45 - ID#228128)
APH: Your opinion on gold
Has the gold rally run out of gas or do you think it will follow silver up?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:49 - ID#431263)
Your name isn't Gutman of Bre-X fame is it? Thought you had already been devoured in the Indonesian jungle! : )

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:51 - ID#377196)
Your post on "you know it's a bear when" was great. How true.

I did not realize it was a bear in some of my golds until they
had dropped 50% so I don't expect the Yuppies to know any better
about their 401 k's or their IRA's.

I wonder how many of us will be able to ride the gold wave all the
way up. I don't expect to be able to do that. It is somehow easier
for me to buy low. Knowing how high is high has proved to be difficult.
I NEVER would have guessed 7000 on the DOW. SO, I will leave the
party early but still expect great gains.

Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:54 - ID#57232)
Janet Reno Cited for Contempt by Congress
All: News like this is not good for the markets.
Wonder what will happen next. I'll bet she will try to stonewall untill at least after Aug 17. I suspect that she was trying to protect her boss, WJC. Eventually even she will realize it is a lost cause, IMHO. She won't be able to take on Congress if WJC's popularity wanes any more.
Anyone have any idea how WJC might try to pick a fight with Saddam? This can't just be a little dogfight. Perhaps -- pull out the UN team and bomb the purported nerve gas plant. Won't get much support from the other Arab nations, who don't seem to think very much of WJC, IMHO.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:56 - ID#350179)
Grizz, All I know is...
the zinc pennies melt in campfires.

John Disney__A
(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:56 - ID#24135)
Good One
Ben is here on Kitco now .. He HATES DOW and wants
it to be called DOG Jones average .. He wants it to
go down boy .. down boy. WOOF WOOF.
Went up hey ?? woops then WOOF and sell that rally.
Bite PPT in the leg and raise that leg to Janet Reno.
Ben wants to be one of the boys .. and he's blind ..
so that makes him pretty well even with the rest of
He like precious metals and plans to bark at them
until either they go up a lot or I open the frig
and give him something to eat. Up boy up boy ..
Ben loves capital letters and plans on being an
bomber pilot in his next life. He loves being on
kitco and barking with the rest of the guys ..
WOOF WOOF GRRR GRRR Clinton and Reno and DOG
Jones Average says BEN.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:58 - ID#434108)
Steve@ 16:39 -"Candn Gov't Idiots + 'US Dollar Vultures'
Steve, et al,
thanks for this post;
it reminds me of a fundamental law
( -which almost all of us
can't even comprehend,
much 'less'...aspire to: )

"none of us are free
till all of us
are free".

Only gold money, will insure this, in our material world.

Only enough of us,
insisting on
gold-based money, for everyone:
every nation,
every ethnic-group, skin-color, ideology & persuasion

only upon this insistent, persistent
faith, devotion, determination, and determined conviction...

in gold money,

only upon this...

will Canadians, So. Koreans, Indonesians, So. Africans,
and Russians, Japanese, Thailanders, ( -etc., ad infinitum )

be enabled to insure,
their innate, national, and individual
sovereignty, independence and personal liberty.

Only when all nations'
money & credit systems,
have one common denominator,
in humble gold;

only then will Canadians live, work and thrive,
in the rightful security,
of their endeavors, and sacrifice.

And every other nation, and peoples, as well.

Until then,
the collective sea of humanity,
is still possessed by
a seething, drowning mis-guided majority... -
willing to be victim,
to the few... -

who for the moment,
may define themselves,
in US dollars triumphant
in a temporary & tenuous brew.

Such exploitive, suicidal currency relationships are but...
a caldron
of exploitation
in unnecessary surrender.....

to the highest bidder -
....who is bloated already.

When enough independence-loving individuals,
and sufficient numbers of
honorable families & communities,
and nations....
are aroused enough.....
in indignation
at the exploitation of their heartland, and of -
of their dignity, and
of their birth-right to freedom...

when enough of us
have had enough
of selling out

to the highest bidder
already bloated
whether a -
US dollar holder,
or a holder of
another currency
of the
'floating/sinking/ realm'......--

-- for here & now, we witness, all about us,
and throughout & across our precious earth,
and transgessing even
the honored heart & hearth
of our families & nations' heritage
and birth..... --

We witness,
and acquiesce to...
humanity's current-sell out - to:

"" ... ruin at the end of a millenium .... ""

where the paper money of highest value -
of the momentary time

enables its manipulating holders
to devour - like vultures

the lesser paper currencies, resources, corporations, & nations...
and crashing
all around

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:58 - ID#261295)
John Dizzy...or whoknows...

IF gold were US$320-350 ... what would be a fair price for DROOY??...Read USAGold today if you have not done so...experts predicting 320-350 by November ..didn't Hepsplat say that??

(Thu Aug 06 1998 17:59 - ID#329186)
To all Y2k watchers
Just looked back at an e-mail received 3 Aug from the USA a member of a Y2k team found out that the US government is settng up warehouses around the country,near metropolitan area's stocking them with 45 days of food and supplies, The sender thinks this is prep for y2k but in theory its some catastrophe one wants to admit anything yet

also BBC2 news night would confirm that the americans support Clintler even both parties ?? there was a brief mention of other things payments but that was scant the BBC speaker said that they were getting complaints about so much time devoted to clintler scandle the US guy came back that there was more but in typical journalist fashion nothing was dug deeper...I still think Sadam may end up being his best ally for the moment.

go gold


(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:02 - ID#434108)
Steve @ 16:39
the root cause of the rape of Canada & others, by continued US dollar
imperialsm, lies hidden, in the abandonment of a principle, long-since abandoned, and still hidden, within the US Constituion, itself:

Section 10. States prohibited from the exercise of certain powers.

1. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and
reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment
of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts,
or grant any title of nobility.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:04 - ID#43349)
I think two weeks would be stretching it. There should be a pretty quick rise at first. Publicity has pulled in a lot of short wannabes and they'll cover quick. A lot of other afraid-to-miss-the-dip-if-I-don't
hurry types as well. After a day or two or three that runs out of steam pretty fast. Then the market just hangs there, waiting. By next Friday we shall see what the reverse of this Friday will look like.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:06 - ID#43349)
I think you may be right on on this one.

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:07 - ID#377196)
The Big Adjustment
It would seem to me that with Y2K, IRS not able to collect taxes
as well as general gov't upheaval with Clinton etc., someone in the
government is going to take charge before it is too late.

I think this means SOON. If Clinton/Gore get forced out look
who is next in line: Strom Thurmond. I think this Nation is going
to go backwards ( or forwards depending on how you think about things )
into a state of preservation at all costs.

I don't know exactly what this will mean but to the stock market
it will be death. To liberty? does not look promising.

A dark period in history seems to be ariving for all.

One can escape into gold but one cannot escape the disapointment
in seeing so much, go so wrong, so fast.

Thanks, and GO GOLD GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:12 - ID#57232)
Be careful -- you may get what you expect
All: If the US markets tank tomorrow -- don't expect gold equities to go up. As one of our gurus on Kitco said, the strongest driving force behind gold equities ( beside inflation ) is a fluctuating downish market. Severe bear equities markets tend to cause gold bear equities markets too. It is too early for gold equities to decouple completely from general market equities. Also the US dollar is still quite strong -- so far anyway.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:22 - ID#212323)
Ya know, gold being what it is and all,
I'm starting to feel a lot more like I do now than I did when I first got here.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:23 - ID#259260)

Who is the bigger sleaze, BJ Clinton or Janet Reno ( aka Saddam Hussein in drag ) .

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:25 - ID#347235)
Gold Dancer
Your interpretation of the line of succession to the presidency is a little off, if both Clinton and Gore are gone it follows 1 Speaker Of the House
2. Pres Pro Tem of Senate 3. WORST POSSIBLEOF ALL SECSTATE!!!! I dont remember the exact order of the rest but they are all Cabinate Members

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:27 - ID#43349)
The Depths of September
Troublemakers around the world will be watching for the moments of most distraction in the US. As turmoil grows fretfully behind closed Washington doors it will echoed across the high seas.

There are some looking for the chance to settle old scores.

There are some looking to grab and run while the world's eyes are adverted.

There are some looking to see what gain might be made.

Some here, some there, and pretty soon you are talking about big trouble.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:30 - ID#43349)
Not much chance of the markets tanking tomorrow, not much chance at all. Not the stock markets, anyway. I would keep a close eye on gold, however.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:36 - ID#57232)
Y2K Termination of all international banking trade? Any Proof?
Allen ( USA ) : Are you sure about this? If the US banks are pulling in their antennae in anticipation of y2k hitting Europe worse than the US, this is bad news indeed. How is international trade to be maintained? How do the multinationals function? Do they all switch to a non-US dollar means of trade? SDRer, where are you? Clearly there must be some backup if this is envisioned. Some sort of Y2k compliant medium of exchange for the multinationals. Eg, what are the savvy Swiss doing with Nestle? Otherwise there are alot of lemmings out there -- not everyone is blissfully heading for oblivion. What about the Rothschilds operations?

What worries me is that sometimes the belief in potential disaster creates the disaster ( or at least makes it much worse ) .
There is another side to this coin. Lets for a moment make the ( possibly naive asseumption ) that the EURO is y2k compliant. And -- we know that there is a tendency for derivatives traders to leave the US markets because of the threat of further regulation. What if derivatives trading is shifting to the EURO because the multinationals perceive it as y2k compliant, but not the US dollar? Interesting thought.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:38 - ID#316193)
When You Want to Take a Break, Put This One in Your Bookmarks

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:38 - ID#212323)
Are you suggesting that a buying opportunity may likely present itself at preferred prices tomorrow?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:39 - ID#263254)
President Newt Gingrich...
I don't think I like the sound of that, however, it rings
nicely compared to President Albert Gore. I will refrain
from gutteral utterings.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:39 - ID#338111)
Chink in the Dow Armour
Ma & Pa Kettle decide to sit on the side this time eh?

Aussie stockbrokers report clients' Cash Management Trusts are awash with cash preseumably waiting for the next "crash".

'Cept me of course. Bought a bit of gold against "unforseen events". Can't quite bring myself to follow the crowd. That will be my downfall?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:44 - ID#57232)
Watch gold tomorrow?
Gollum: Up or down? I have been expecting it to go up for two years. A China devaluation will make it go down, and the PPT still has alot of steam, as we have seen. AG may be tempted to push gold down again fairly soon if the markets do a swan dive -- probably not tomorrowm, though.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:44 - ID#43349)
Uhhh Ohhhh

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:47 - ID#43349)
@Aragorn III
I am suggesting that starting tomorrow untill the middle of next month you may be seeing greater and greater buying opportunities at more and more preffered prices.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:48 - ID#43349)
Not up.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:51 - ID#220325)
1998 the largest % crash for the first decline
Check out Martin Armstrong's

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:52 - ID#26793)
@Aragorn III
The LBMA has only recently been releasing monthly figures on volume, I don't have any of it. Then the question becomes physical vs warehouse receipts. Doubt we will ever know.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:53 - ID#212323)
Gollum...that would be fine
You may recall our brief dialog prior to my trip to New Orlean. I had some early Christmas shopping to do upon my return. I'm back and ready to Carpe Aurem.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:56 - ID#43349)
@Aragorn III
By Christmas you will be well pleased with your purchases. In fact, by Thanksgiving you will be greatly pleased.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:56 - ID#212323)
Found the missing "s" still stuck to the monitor.
Donald...thanks for the info anyway. You provide a great service.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 18:57 - ID#338111)
Asia won't effect US
China misrepresenting monetisation of peasant "barter economy" as growth.

John Disney__A
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:00 - ID#24135)
you gotta work it out
for Bill D
.. a do-it-yourself kit for
Not that hepslat knows anything
at all .. BUT Deeps costs last
quarter were about 295 $/oz at
a rand of 5.2 .. now the rand
is about 6.15 .. so adjust the
cost to the new rand rate ..
subtract that from 325 and you
get the profit per oz ..
Multiply that times the
capacity in oz per year and you
have total dollar profit per
year .. knock off a bit for
tax and capex .. and divide
by the number of shares ..
Then you have the earnings
per share .. pick a p/e ratio
and you have a price ..
The number will have more
meaning if you do it yourself.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:00 - ID#424394)
gunrunner & MM
Empathy is appreciated - but that is not what was sought.
I was contributing the reminder that there are large groups of "underprivledged" {upper-class term} who will use anarchy & chaos
as an opportunity to pull down those they perceive as better off
than themselves. That battleline may be drawn at a very low level!
Just the *appearances* of being "better off" will be sufficient -
regardless of how much debt is associated with those appearances.
The have nots will make war on the haves. It will be bloody ugly!

MM - zinc pennies will disappear as homes & cities burn.
The copper pennies will survive - along with the clad coins.
Gold & Silver will too - unless it really gets HOT!
Then the meltdown will leave nothing but civilization's ashes.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:01 - ID#212323)
As brutal as the gold market has been in recent years, it would be doubly fitting...
if my dealer were also a butcher...'cause I'm buying it by the pound.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:02 - ID#43349)
Excellent post. He looks close to right on.

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:05 - ID#295111)
Bills vs Gold
QUESTION: What does Monica Lewinsky have in her pants?
ANSWER: A wad of Bills.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:05 - ID#43349)
Check out the item by Martin Armstrong that snowbird found. Whether one is skeptical or not, it gives excellent comparisons of the mechanics of several crash scenarios of the past compared to our present situation.
Excellent background stuff.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:05 - ID#57232)
Gollum: It is too early for the baby boomers to switch to gold -- did you notice that cry0 is looking better, by the way? Too early to say the bottom is in commodities, though.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:05 - ID#284255)
Swing chart updated
Either it's establishing a bottom or
It's the little uptick before the real plunge.
Note the uptick during the Oct fall just before the swing bottomed.
This could be where we are now.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:07 - ID#26793)
Yes, of course that could happen. But here is the good news. At that time we were on gold and there was a lot of it in the hands of the public. The government didn't have enough so it grabbed what it needed. Hopefully we still have it at Ft. Knox. Now the public has very little and the government has control of the bulk of the hoard. It would make sense for them to revalue it and restore confidence; putting it back into the hands at a higher price than they paid. Buy low, sell high. Greenspan seems to be hinting at something like that. Another factor is competition from the Euro and possibly the yen being gold backed. In order to use the dollar as an international currency the U.S. would also have to back with gold. I think they are in a box and will go back to gold. They just don't know it yet.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:08 - ID#266110)
@Allen_USA your 14:43 ---- Getting Cash NOWWWWWW !!!
It must be a male thing -- seeing the potential danger of a cash meltdown. I am of the same thinking as you are. Banks will start running out of the green stuff pretty soon and you won't be able to get more than a few bucks at a time. That's why I'm already taking funds out. But there's a problem --- the wiffe. She thinks that maybe $1K is about the limit. While at the other end of the spectrum, I'm saying get at least $2K to $5K as a minimum. But more importantly, I want to take ALL CASH OUT!!! And for me to even think ( or talk ) about that is absolute heresy.

Here's a story to belp support your thoughts.

One bank that I know about, is creating two divisions for every checking/savings account:
1. Transactional Account
2. Non-Transactional Account

According to the literature, there will be no difference in the way your account works. ( Well, excuse me !!!! If that is the case, then why are they creating 2 divisions ????? It's plain to see that whenever anyone comes up with a slight-of-hand "trick" and tells you not to worry because there is not difference OR your money is backed by the "good" credit and faith of the US Govt --- then its time to run for the hills. )

Anyway, my thoght is that they are pre-positioning themselves for allowing you to keep "non-cash" funds in your "Transactional" account will a paltry amount of bucks are "available" in your "non-Transactional" account.

SO ----

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:09 - ID#342256)
Y2K Bank woes

Hello Kitco-ites....

Just wanted to introduce myself briefly. I've been lurking for about 3
months and learned more here from y'all than I did at B-school.

Got gold? A little.
Go gold! You bet.

ANOTHER child in the Kitco _A family


Bank's `Y2K' solution turns into a problem for customers

By The Associated Press
ANNAPOLIS - Annapolis Bank and Trust officials thought they were
getting a jump on the Year 2000 computer problem, but their new system
ended up causing some customers unexpected headaches.

When the bank's automated teller and credit card system switched over
to a ``Year 2000-proof'' operation May 18, scores of the bank's debit
card customers were locked out of the bank's ATMs for 48 hours.

Others found their check cards out of commission for a week, and still
others found electronic transactions posted weeks late, bank officials

The bank converted to a new operating system in April 1997, but didn't
switch ATM and check card functions until May, said Pamela Bowen,
vice president for marketing at Annapolis Bank and Trust. That's when
the glitches surfaced.

Tapes containing data for new cards couldn't be read by the bank's
issuing company, Deluxe, leaving customers without new cards for four
weeks. Then check cards, which can be used as Visa and MasterCards
but deduct money automatically from checking accounts, wouldn't
function properly. Finally, some customers - Bowen said she didn't know
how many - couldn't get cash from the bank's automatic teller machines.

About 100 customers called the bank to complain, and bank officials
rushed to help others stranded without money. In a few cases, the bank
had to wire money to customers, Bowen said.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:16 - ID#57232)
My Mexican index puts are in positive territory
sharefin: Can't say the same for my ancient funny money sp-500 puts. We would need a real crash before they show any signs of life. Just about gave up on them. If the markets really tank, I will wait and buy another small batch of gold equity mutual funds. My regular equity mutual funds -- select retail -- will be hanging out to dry. But only 10% of my liquid assets are in the select retail funds. Rest gold mutual funds and a little energy for a possible Saddam show. And 70% of liquid funds in cash.
Most of my powder is dry, though I will be sweating it if the markets crash in the next two weeks. I still think there is a little life left in the US markets, mostly because the US dollar has not followed the swan song of the markets -- yet, anyway.
Know anything about what the Oldman is saying?

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:18 - ID#212323)
I already feel like I know ya!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:20 - ID#386245)
G'day Cassandra and welcome.
All the best to Priam and Hecuba. Tell Apollo to get his act together.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:22 - ID#28994)
Monica...Americas Sweetheart
Of all the " Courtesans " in American history Monica alone would qualify as the undisputed Queen.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:23 - ID#212323)
I agree with you Nick...
The problem with Apollo is that these days he does a lot more setting than rising. Gotta like the color, though.

got gold?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:25 - ID#210114)
Canadian Gold Sale (When will this end?)

The FIRST concert at the original site of Woodstock since 1969.

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Full story
Gold stuck in range, shrugs off Canada sales news
11:47 a.m. Aug 06, 1998 Eastern

LONDON, Aug 6 ( Reuters ) - Gold remained locked in a range on Thursday in late
European trading, shrugging off news that Canada had sold 168,000 ounces,
dealers said.

Gold was last quoted at $287.60/$288.10 an ounce, from the previous close in
New York at $287.70/$288.20. Bullion remained in a range between $286.80 and

Dealers said gold encountered difficulty breaking through $288.50.

``It is relatively quiet, there was a bit of selling pressure this morning but it failed to
move the market,'' one European dealer said.

He said he did not see much potential for gold to move higher, adding that bullion
shrugged off news that Canada had sold 168,000 ounces in July.

Canada's Finance Department said on Thursday the country had sold 168,000
ounces of gold in July, boosting its foreign reserves by US$55.4 million.

Its holdings stood at 2.9 million ounces as of July 31, the department said. It was
the first sale of gold by Canada since October 1996.

The sale represented a reduction in the book value of Canada's gold holdings of
US$8 million, and an increase in the country's foreign reserves of US$55.4 million.

Dealers said gold remained very muted and seemed to have ignored the weaker yen
in later trading on Thursday. Weakness in the yen has directly hit dollar gold prices
for weeks now, with bullion dealers using the yen as a pointer to Southeast Asian
gold demand.

``The dollar/yen has done nothing today,'' one London dealer said.

Dealers said even though the bullion market was relatively thin at the moment, the
news failed to make an impact.

``The price did not move at all. For a place like Canada which is a natural gold
provider...It highlights the fact that no matter what the ( World ) Gold Council says,
central banks will be quietly selling still,'' another dealer said.

Gold tends to be negatively correlated with other asset classes and fell to an 18 year
low at $277.00 an ounce this year as the U.S. stockmarket and the dollar have risen
steadily in the past eight years.

But gold prices are not far from the marginal cost of production for many mines and
producer hedging and central bank activity has been light in recent weeks, allowing
gold to consolidate around current levels.

Gold prices are not seen recovering much ground until the slow summer demand
period passes for jewellery fabricators and until the September and October Hindu
festivals revive demand in India.

Silver was last quoted higher at $5.44/$5.47 an ounce against the previous close at
$5.40/$5.43, and dealers said the metal was struggling to go above $5.50.

``If gold does not stabilise at the area where it is now, silver will go down again,''
one dealer said.

Platinum and palladium moved higher in European trading. Platinum was last quoted
at $381.40/$383.40 against the previous close at $375.50/$377.50.

Palladium was last quoted higher at $291.00/$301.00 against Wednesday's
$287.00/$297.00 New York close.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:25 - ID#199190)
Thanks Retired Soldier - We're looking forward to a quiet night.
The boys can come in and we can play cards 'till the wee hours.
I reckon you guys have the perimeter nicely wired, armed & secured.
If a claymore goes off it'll be like stirrin' up a nest of hornets.
We best stay out of that 'shine though - maybe beer only tonight.
Wouldn't do to get all likkered up when the F* hits the fan.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:26 - ID#147201)
We have a new confirmed subversive
Koffie Assanan has sucked up to SADdam again. He thinks we should step back and take a new view. If the UN has any interest in the USA, I don't know where it is. If they have their way, they will control US and everybody else.

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:26 - ID#295111)
1929 Crash vs Present Day

A major difference between the 1929 stock market crash and a present day one is the speed with which transactions take place, and it is a global marketplace now. AG opened his big mouth and said so if you don't believe me.

It took Gold stocks a year to show major gains and the POG was pegged!

When the modern day crash comes, there's a very good chance that the POG and Gold stocks will soar and soar very quickly indeed.

So hold on tight...........

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:29 - ID#43349)
It seems like just about every day the warehouse stocks of gold and/or silver used to go up or down some amount. The last three days seem frozen somehow. I wonder if the guy who does the inventory is on vacation. Or maybe they use some kind of Bart thingie and it needs to be rebooted.

In any case it seems ominously quiet.

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:31 - ID#347267)
FWIW Dept: Mutual Funds
My wife subscribes to the Fabian Mutual Fund Newsletter. She has "held on" during this downturn, since Doug Fabian has not issued a SELL on domestic equities. At my urging, she also held her CEF and GOLDX, but she looks at me kinda peculiar like. ( She checks pct gains and losses too ) . Fabian uses a combination of two 39 week moving averages which must confirm each other; the "Domestic Fund Composite" is a combination of selected funds; it barerly ( BEARLY ) squeaked by on this dip without a signal. Fabian is in an "ALERT" mode: here is his message:

Wed, Aug 5 1998
The Dow Jones Industrials climbed 59 points to close at 8546.78. A Buy signal remains in place for the Domestic Fund Composite Plan however, an Alert Mode is in effect. The Domestic Fund Composite is .72% above its 39 week average while the Dow Jones Composite stands at -2.23% below its 39 week average.
We continue to have a Buy signal in place for the International Plan and Sell signals in place for the Asia and Gold plans. An alert mode is in place for the International Plan.

My point is that this is another sell signal, which when ( not if ) it comes, will result in significant redemptions, as Fabian is fairly widely followed.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:32 - ID#26793)
So. African Gold Fields on investor road show.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:37 - ID#411259)
..... ronnoel .....

I've got 3,500 Mounties left - out of 22,500.
I don't think the RCM will mint more
When these 3,500 are gone
That's all there is


(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:38 - ID#242325)
martin Armstrong
Martin Armstrong bearish on everything except bonds and the greenback Looking for $196 gold, 23% correction in US stock market and 40% drop in European markets.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:39 - ID#212323)
How about a word from the stacks?
got info?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:40 - ID#224363)
Took a look at the Armstrong Report as suggested...Interesting stuff. I'm not a big fan of looking solely at the past to measure the future but there is enough other negative activity underway to add some credibility to his thesis.

I'm not an Options player so how does one go about establishing some longer positions that capitalize on the belief that the S&P is due to go down.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:42 - ID#252286)
whaa? huh?

arrggghgle roufrimnft heh weeze
I don't feel too good
That you grizz?
I'm cold
What happened?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:44 - ID#411259)
..... Last for robnoel .....

Sorry about the misspelling, Robby


(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:47 - ID#373284)
$196.00 gold

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:47 - ID#93241)
Old Gold
Who signs Armstrong's paychecks?

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:51 - ID#212323)
OLD GOLD....Cheeses Aitch Gripes!
$196 gold?? Just imagine what that portends for all things REAL...such as estate...real estate that is. I can't fathom the US Dollar rolling back the clock, erasing the damage done by YEARS of insidious inflation. Perhaps I, too, will be able to pay some young lad five bucks to mow my lawn--just like I was paid $5 to mow neighbors' lawns once upon a time.

Cash is King, folks. Who'd have ever guessed that the great fiat experiment would prevail...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:52 - ID#338111)
Old Gold
Interesting site - Like Armstrongs' comment that gold is a hedge against unsound practices of government.

Why else did Roosevelt outlaw its ownership?

Spoiled sports!

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:53 - ID#212323)
These lawns were BIG!
Yards and yards of yard!

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:56 - ID#212323)
Hey Tolerant1....AH HA HA Ha Ha ha ha ha....How's this?
"...Like Armstrongs' comment that gold is a hedge against unsound practices of government..."

Tell me this...What is an adequate hedge against unsound practices of prognostication?!

got reality?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:56 - ID#210114)
Merkin Arrogance

There's no cause for US optimism

By Peter Hartcher, Asia-Pacific Editor

"The world of high finance can be understood," wrote
American economic thinker John Kenneth Galbraith,
"only when it is recognised that the greatest admiration is
accorded those who are paving the way for the greatest

There is an unshakable optimism, so steady that it
appears to be genetic in origin, among some of Wall
Street's most admired strategists, such as Goldman
Sachs' Mr Abby Cohen and Morgan Stanley's Mr Byron

Their optimism is credited with exerting a stabilising
influence on US stock prices after Tuesday's
Asia-inspired sell-off.

The basis of this fixed-grin approach to investment advice
is twofold; it is to say that Asia's outlook is not as bad as
you think, and that, hell, Asia isn't so important to the US
economy anyway.

Both propositions are flawed.

The Asian crisis is probably only at half-time. There is a
good deal more bad news yet to emerge from the
stricken continent, particularly from its two biggest
economies, Japan and China.

Astonishingly, the general perception of China's economy
is that it is still growing robustly and that the
Government's target of 8 per cent expansion this year is

Even if China's GDP statistics are compiled accurately,
this is a seriously misleading indicator.

There are still chunks of China where peasants are being
brought out of the barter economy and into the money
economy for the first time. The national accounts
misrepresent this monetisation of the economy as growth
in production.

Other, more useful, proxies for activity in China show a
significant slowing. The profits of listed Chinese
companies have collapsed by about 90 per cent over the
past two years.

"China is slowing down significantly, and anyone that's
telling you otherwise probably has some entrenched
interest," says the chief treasury economist for Bankers
Trust in Singapore, Mr Alistair Boyd.

"Red-chip stocks [major Chinese firms listed in Hong
Kong] have been getting slaughtered in the last three
weeks. That tells you that the international markets are
not comfortable about China's prospects.

"And in the kerb market for dollars in China, the premium
for dollars [over the local renminbi] has been widening.
That tells you that the locals aren't comfortable with
China's prospects either."

As for Japan, it has not yet managed to put in place the
prerequisites to reverse its downward spiral of deflation.
The International Monetary Fund has pointed out that in
modern economic history no country has managed an
economic recovery with a dysfunctional banking system.

Japan's Government has not yet even drawn up its
banking bills, let alone tried to negotiate their passage
through the parliament. And its plans to stimulate the
economy remain just that. In the absence of drastic policy
action, the yen continues to weaken and exert more
downward pressure on other Asian currencies.

This, in turn, worsens Japan's economic and banking
crisis. For example, Nomura's Mr Richard Koo
estimates with every 5 fall against the US dollar, banks
are forced to cut credit by another 1 per cent of GDP.
And what of the view that Asia doesn't matter so much to
the US?

"If I told you," says the chief economist for Chase
Manhattan Bank in New York, Mr John Lipsky, "that the
US would fall from 3 per cent growth this year to -2 per
cent next year, would you say that would affect global

"Of course you would. Well, it's already happened 
that's the scale of what has happened in Asia."

You can't lightly dismiss the puncturing of the world's
major growth zone of the first seven years of the 1990s.
Unless, of course, you are paving the way for greater

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:57 - ID#288369)
Martin Armstrong needs to get a real he a member of the Talking Triad? the junior league, the ivy league and the bush league. Words have little weight.

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:57 - ID#295111)
The Gold Insurance Policy Model

Many financial advisors have said your portfolio should include 5-15% of Gold based securities as a hedge or the insurance factor as they say. I've always wondered why they chose the 5-15% range. Here's my analysis.

SCENARIO 1 ( Accepting finacial advisor advice )
At 10% gold holdings, your portfoilio is
10% Gold + 90% OtherInv = 100% Wealth
If your other investments fall by 1/3 to 60%, then
40% Gold + 60% OtherInv = 100% Wealth
If your other investments fall by 50% to 45%, then
55% Gold + 45% OtherInv = 100% Wealth

As can be seen from the above simple analysis, Gold would have to quadruple when stocks fall by 30% to break even on your insurance policy. It must increase 550% when the stock market crashes and loses 50% of its value.

So, if the POG is at $285 now, if the DOW loses 30% of its value, then the POG should go to $1540.

Ok, be easy on me, I'm not an economics professor, but if you buy the insurance policy theory of holding gold, it all makes sense to me.


(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:57 - ID#373284)
$196.00 gold

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:59 - ID#373284)
$196.00 gold

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:59 - ID#295111)
Gold Insurance Policy Model... I goofed
Oops, the POG should rise 4 times to $1140.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 19:59 - ID#19870)
Evenin' Gentlemen (& Shredder) & Ladies (if applicable)

Non-enemy to all here -- just thought I'd test the waters, see if maybe rustle up a cup 'o jo with y'all. Maybe jaw 'bout some metals. How are we all tonight on K2?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:02 - ID#257344)
Have I been remiss in my duties?
I have not visited Kitco as often as I would like the past month, something has consumed my time like mining gold, and moving the family ( with burning U-Haul trucks ) . However, I noticed FOXMAN's comex numbers and was really shocked!

Comex eligible gold stocks stand at 106,000 oz of gold which can be delivered against 180,000 contracts. By my math this works out to .58 ounces of gold pledged against each 100 oz contract! When this puppy turns, my friends, the shorts will have no where to buy gold! It is only a matter of time. Fully 99 per cent of the shorts on comex are naked, even though there is 900,000 oz of gold deposited there, no one wants to sell at these prices in today's climate! I must BANG THE DRUM LOUDLY!!!!

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:03 - ID#212323)
This should just about cover it...
tolerant1 ( $196.00 gold )

tolerant1 ( $196.00 gold )

tolerant1 ( $196.00 gold )

tolerant1 ( $196.00 gold )

tolerant1 ( $196.00 gold )

tolerant1 ( $196.00 gold )

Sorry, folks, but it had to be done.

got $196 gold?


Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:04 - ID#295111)
What is this $190.00 you're Ah ha ha'ing about?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:04 - ID#93241)
Tantalus Rex
My guess is that the "many" financial advisors who advocate 5-15% gold as insurance is that its for their insurance when a client's portfolio goes to 30-20-10% of original investment and litigation becomes a possibility

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:06 - ID#218221)
196$ gold predictions is what you Want to see after a decline like this.
....How many women does it take to satisfy Bill Clintons sexual appetite?

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:06 - ID#212323)
Tantalus Rex
Read the 19:38 post.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:07 - ID#338111)
Gold Insurance Model
The history of POG vs. Stock Market doesn't seem to be correlated.

Profound loss of confidence in government controlled monetary systems is.

Gold is insurance against acts of stupidity of government such as the current loose monetary policy we have now.

Tolerant1: what is "prognostication". Sorry mate. You're just too clever for me :- )

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:08 - ID#295111)
Hmm, I guess there would be much litigation in a stock crash. I can see lots of class action suits comming. Where's the torfeasor?

I hope someone sues the pants ( or dress ) off ABBY COHEN!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:08 - ID#396249) it is u guys... should have known...they only minted 30,000 yes


(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:12 - ID#28994)
Ah Ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:12 - ID#284255)
Sorry but haven't been to Avid for ages.
Much too busy.
Open house tomorrow and looking good.

I think we need to watch the next few days before calling for a rally.
Not enough capitulation yet.
That is why I am leaning towards another big down leg.
I think maybe we are at the point of the uptick prior to the 550 pt fall last Oct.
It stands out clearly on the swing chart in Oct.
I would wait and watch for this before going long short term.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:12 - ID#212323)
clktech...prognostication is the act of forecasting...predicting the future.

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:14 - ID#295111)
@Aragorm_III Oh...I see it now, 196?
That is kind of funny.
I've said many Gold mines will shut down on a prolonged $280.
Man, at 196, who would mine gold? That guy is nuts.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:14 - ID#242325)
Armstrong's bearish outlook for gold seems to be based on his belief thst US economic policy is just perfect and there is no need for anyone of means to hold gold as a hedge. That is his explanation for the surging greenback depite huge trade deficits as foreign capital flows to a "perfecT" America.

The ultimate American chauvinist.


Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:16 - ID#212323)
Tantalus Rex
And likewise...can you imagine who would buy gold at $196?? EVERYBODY!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:17 - ID#338111)
Seen that article as well.

Japan and China have a long way to go - down. The "Lose face" aspect of the cultures make its difficult for them to admit defeat.

I'm worried that Japan will do a kamakaze. After been proded by the west so often to "grow"

Like having a few bars of the yellow stuff around - but cash is looking king at the moment.

Bully Beef
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:18 - ID#259261)
All work and no play.
I think I'm starting to burn out. For relief need a ten dollar gold rally. Something dreams are made of. Otherwise look for flames coming from a gold forum near you! ( public service announcement Yadda Yadda Yaddda! )

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:18 - ID#295111)
I know, the model is too simple. I assume all the other invesments are into the DOW 30 ( not bonds/cash/real assets etc ) . But even if the POG doesn't quadruple, I'll take a 300% jump in the POG!!!!!!

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:19 - ID#212323)
Hey Tolerant1...what happened to ya?
Here one second, gone the next? I didn't just LOL at $196, I actually DID laugh out loud...long and hard! I hurt my ribs when I tried to assemble that post on your behalf.

A giant gulp to ya...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:20 - ID#404124)
Moxy Fruvous

Canada We Love You

This morning, all full of fear and trembling
Constituents were assembling
With quotes from Mr. Angus Ried in hand
BJ struck up the band for a televised love-in link-up
Wherein average folks could think up ways to save our troubled land.
Then later, three trucks with big antennas
Folks dressed like Frank McKenna's
And cub reporters showed up on my lawn
Flashbulbs shook the dawn and a teleprompter told me
To speak the words out boldly for a CanSave telethone.
I think I love you, can they hear that out in Moosejaw
Here's a simple guy from Oshawa
With a heaping homespun hunk of national pride
I think I love you, get some makeup on the neighbours...
It's a humble, folksy plea...pick it up on camera three...
They gave me coffee and made me sit with others
Whom, if they'd had their druthers would rather be home watching NFL
But I guess it's just as well that we find a common zeitgeist
Before Preston pulls a seat-heist in a parliament from hell.
The CanSave satellite send word from downtown Gander
Where folks refused to pander to ultimatums sent by Neighbour Kim
We were about to pack it in when our Brian started prayin'
Let's all act like Sir John A. - in other words, let's hit the gin.
Then came Alberta with a message from the Saddledome
Said Canada's their true home
There's just some slight instructions for us all
They'd like to build a massive wall, top it with a bubble, pronto
So they could call Toronto the all-new East Edmonton Mall.
We'll sing we love you, you're a jumbo hero sandwich
Top it off with Peter Mansbridge
Two huskies and a bucket of poutine
Canada we love you so much it doesn't matter
You're a frigid, spineless pawn for Wall Street and the Pentagon...
But, geez, we love you!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:21 - ID#373284)
ckltech_A, Namaste' I dunno, took me ten minutes to look it up..
Tantalus_A, Namaste' $196.00 heh, heh, heh...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:23 - ID#411259)
..... Robby .....

To correct an earlier statement:

After these 3,500 Mounties are gone
That will be the last of the new Mounties
We will undoubtedly buy back coins as time goes on
The last was to say the mintage is running out
The coins should be available in the secondary market
But probably at a premium

Current bid price on Mounties is 312.20
The face value is $310
This coin can only go down 2.20 each
There they will hold until the millennium

Seems it might be hard to get hurt on Mounties

Or put differently
Ask is 321.40
Shipping $1 per ounce
12.40 total exposure
On a commodity that has fallen
$130 dollars in two years


(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:26 - ID#210114)
End of the Gold Standard
Myth: The gold standard is a better monetary system.

Fact: The gold standard causes deflation and depressions.


The far right advocates the gold standard because it gets government out of the business of
controlling the money supply. They fear that printing money creates inflation, and retracting money
causes recessions. But the opposite is also true: printing money cures recessions, and retracting it
cures inflation. Governments in the last 60 years have used these policies with tremendous success.
There has not been a single depression or bank panic in any nation anywhere in the world using
Keynesian monetary policies. But during the Gilded Age of the late 19th and early 20th centuries,
depressions and bank panics were common. The historical record is so strong that mainstream
economists reject the gold standard almost universally.


Once the subject of heated national debate over 100 years ago, the gold standard today has nearly
disappeared as a political issue. The world has abandoned the gold standard in favor of so-called
"paper money," and only a diminishing group on the far right continues to call for its return.
However, if mainstream economists ( on both the left and the right ) have anything to say about it,
there will never be a return to "that barbarous relic," as John Maynard Keynes called gold over 60
years ago.

Even so, defenders of the gold standard include such former presidential candidates as Jack Kemp
and Stephen Forbes. Furthermore, the rise of well-funded, right-wing think tanks in the last few
decades has managed to resurrect the issue. Therefore, reviewing the arguments of the "gold bugs"
-- as they are irreverently known in academia -- is well worthwhile, if only to screen our presidential
candidates for obsolete economic ideas.

The reason why the far right opposes the current money system is because it allows the government
to control the size of the money supply. They argue that an unscrupulous government might pay its
bills by printing more money, which would cause inflation. They also argue that shrinking the money
supply allows the government to create recessions. Under a gold standard, the total value of money
would be fixed ( or nearly so ) , and the market would adjust itself efficiently around it. In his book,
The Theory of Money and Credit, Ludwig von Mises wrote: "The excellence of the gold standard
is to be seen in the fact that it renders the determination of the monetary unit's purchasing power
independent of the policies of governments and political parties."

Mainstream economists, however, have a powerful counter-argument. The current system might, in
theory, allow an unscrupulous government to create inflation or unemployment, but it also allows the
government to fight inflation and unemployment. And that is a tremendous achievement, because
not one nation around the world using Keynesian monetary policy has experienced a depression in
the last six decades. It appears that we eliminated depressions when we eliminated the gold

It hasn't been for lack of opportunities. In 1987, the U.S. stock market crashed, in a "meltdown"
that was even worse than the Crash of 1929. But the Federal Reserve had learned its lessons from
the Great Depression, and this time it responded correctly: with a sharp expansion of the money
supply. And not only was there no depression, but there was no recession either -- in fact, the
remarkable economic boom of the 80s continued without even a bump. Under a gold standard, the
Fed would have been robbed of this anti-recessionary weapon.

Of course, the gold bugs have developed a set of apologetics for arguments like these. To put
everything in perspective, it is helpful to trace the evolution of the monetary system, from its very
beginnings to the rise and fall of the gold standard. The reason for starting at the beginning is
twofold: even the basics are disputed by people who believe themselves informed on the issue, and
many lay persons might not know them anyway. So, with apologies, let's start with the invention of

The history of monetary systems

The first economic activity was undoubtedly bartering. Two people would make a direct exchange:
say, food for furs. However, bartering is a most inefficient trading system. If the person with furs
wanted food, but the person with food wanted wood carvings, they would have to search for a third
party with wood carvings before they could make their trade. And the third party may not want
either of their tradeables, requiring a search for a fourth party -- as you can see, the process quickly
becomes unworkable.

The invention of money solved this problem. As a medium of exchange, money allows people to
conduct multi-person bartering without all the effort of searching for a hundred people before
making the transaction that everyone wants. True, a hundred people may indeed be involved in the
final transaction -- but no thought or planning has to go into it, because money, by some miracle of
economics, eliminates such a need. In short, money is a tool that allows for easy and painless
multi-person bartering. In and of itself it has little or no intrinsic value.

But the invention of money presented a problem of what should be used for it. Suppose that a
common resource like stones was used for money. The problem is that tradeable goods are limited
-- it may take all day to hunt game or weave a rug. When you put your final product on the market,
buyers will compete for it, because, after all, everyone desires to hoard wealth. The first buyer may
pick a rock off the ground and offer it to you, whereupon a second buyer will pick up two rocks
and better the offer. Soon a bidding war erupts, with buyers picking up rocks as fast they can. In
the end you might receive an entire rock quarry for your marketed good. This example highlights
two absurdities. First, this is the essence of inflation. When there is too much money available,
prices soar, and tons of money are needed to buy things. Second, it is a waste of human and natural
resources to dig up so much money -- people might as well devote all this effort to producing the
actual goods.

So early money had to be made out of something rare. Silver and gold met this requirement,
although some societies used other rare materials, like conch shells among African tribes. However,
money that is too rare has the opposite effect described above. Suppose that a village is using gold
for money, but unfortunately there is only one gold nugget. Whoever possesses that nugget will be
able to buy literally anything in the village -- but only once. After surrendering the nugget for an item,
that person will then have to turn around and offer literally anything to get it back. Because the
village has numerous people waiting in line to use the nugget for money, economic activity will slow
down to a crawl, unemployment will rise, and the result is a recession. This example highlights
another principle: money needs to be divisible. The village's economic activity would be doubled just
by cutting the gold nugget in half. Of course, dividing money is the same thing as expanding the
money supply.

So the amount of money has to be optimal -- not too much, but not too little, to support the natural
amount of trading that goes on. As you can see, this calls for some knowledge of the amount of
economic activity that normally occurs. An economist would need to measure this activity, and
calculate how many coins would cover this activity without causing either inflation or unemployment.
One of the practical ways to do this is to watch the economic indicators: when inflation starts rising,
cut back on the money supply; when unemployment starts rising, expand the money supply. This
approach is called Keynesian monetary policy, after the British economist who devised it, John
Maynard Keynes. But when the money supply is determined by some completely arbitrary factor,
like the amount of gold that happens to be in the hills, then the odds that the money supply will
match the amount needed are virtually zero.

An insufficient money supply is not the only thing that can cause a recession. Recessions commonly
occur when people start hoarding money. In normal economies, there is a circular flow of money, as
my spending becomes part of your earnings, and your spending becomes part of my earnings. But
for some reason, you may see tight times ahead, and decide to save your money to get through
them. But this only makes things worse on me, because I am depending on your spending. So I
respond to tight times by hoarding my money also. The result is a drop in economic activity, rising
unemployment, and recession. Keynesian monetary policy calls for expanding the money supply,
which puts more money in the hands of consumers, restores their confidence, and encourages them
to begin spending again.

Gold bugs argue that we don't need to adjust the size of the money supply to match the level of
economic activity -- the value of money will automatically adjust itself to the level of economic
activity. Here's how it works. Suppose three people live in a village, and they have 100 gold coins
among them. And suppose this covers 100 units of work. A loaf of bread may require five units of
work, and therefore cost five gold coins. Now suppose that their economy grows to 120 units of
work. There are two ways for the money supply to adjust to this new activity. The villagers could
simply add 20 more coins to their money supply, so they now have 120 coins. Or they could let the
value of the coins increase.

How would that work? Well, suppose the extra 20 units of work is being produced by just one of
the three villagers. Obviously, he is eager to sell his product, just as the other two are eager to buy
it. But no one can afford the sale, because there is insufficient money. So they artificially "create"
money by lowering their prices for all their other goods, to increase their savings so they can buy it.
For example, a loaf of bread still requires five units of work, but they may lower its price from five
to four gold coins. The extra gold coin can now be used towards the purchase of the new product.
This process is called deflation.

Prices do indeed inflate and deflate in this way. The problem is that this process is terribly inefficient.
In real economies, prices tend to be "sticky" -- that is, enormously resistant to change. ( At least in a
downward direction. In an upward direction, they climb easily. This is good if you want to fight
inflation, bad if you want to fight unemployment and recessions. )

There are several reasons for price stickiness. One is psychological -- people hate to cut their prices
and wages. Another is that salaries and wages are often locked into contracts, the average of which
is three years. And for many, raising prices incurs certain costs ( reprinting, recalculating,
reprogramming, etc., not to mention a dip in business ) that may not make the price change seem
worth it. Even if they do decide to change prices, it takes many companies quite some time to put
them into effect. Sears, for example, has to reprint and remail all its catalogues. But perhaps the
most important reason is that in a big and complex economy, people just don't realize at first when
goods start becoming excessive on the market, and the glut may have to reach severe proportions
before people notice it and take action.

Price stickiness means that the value of money is slow to adapt to changing economic conditions.
Economists have found it much faster and simpler just to expand the money supply and cut the
recession short. The Great Depression, for example, dragged on for ten years, with the natural
deflation of money proceeding at a glacial pace. It wasn't until World War II that the government
was forced to conduct a massive monetary expansion ( to fund its defense spending ) . The result was
such explosive economic growth that the U.S. economy doubled in size between 1940 and 1945,
the fastest period of growth in U.S. history. Another example is Japan in the 1990s. Its economy
has stagnated for five years now, and many economists have criticized its government for not doing
enough to expand the money supply. But whatever the solution, the important point is that Japan's
government has done very little, and its economy has not deflated or adjusted itself -- Japan's
economic pain continues five years later.

But let's return now to our history of money. Historians debate the exact sequence and nature of
events that led to our current monetary system, but the following fictionalized account is often retold
and widely accepted as reasonable.

Suppose that an economy starts by using gold coins. There are disadvantages to circulating gold:
large purchases require lugging around lots of the heavy metal, and a family might be worried about
protecting its gold reserves from thieves. So people may decide to store their gold in a secure,
centralized location: perhaps the goldsmith, who already protects his store of gold in a large safe.
The goldsmith accepts their gold, and, to keep a record of who owns what, writes them a receipt
for their deposit. So the goldsmith has now become a banker.

When the people have spent their pocket change and need to draw on their gold reserves for more,
they can visit the bank and make a withdrawal. But that wastes a lot of time and effort. Instead,
people can just buy their goods with their receipts for gold, rather than the gold itself. The seller then
becomes the new owner of the receipt, and the share of gold it represents, and he can visit the bank
and trade the receipt for gold any time he wants. Of course, he may want to use the receipt himself
in another sale. In this way, people start circulating receipts for money, and paper money is born.

The banker soon decides to facilitate this system, by issuing receipts that say, "This bank will pay
the bearer of this note 10 gold units upon demand." Now the receipts have become banknotes, and
the bank has become a bank of issue. The banknotes, like the gold coins they represent, are called
commodity money, because they are based on commodities like gold or silver.

But under the new system, the banker notices that people are visiting his bank much less frequently.
His gold stocks are just sitting around. So he gets a bright idea: he'll print up some new banknotes
and issue them as loans. The new banknotes are not backed up by actual gold reserves, but he can
get away with this because only a percentage of the note-bearers come in on a given day asking for
their gold. It's profitable for him, because he collects interest on the loans, and it's profitable for the
people, because they can increase their productivity. So from now on the bank will issue banknotes
on a fractional reserve, and the bank itself will become a trust, because people must now trust
that the banker will have the gold reserves to cover their withdrawals. And the banknotes are no
longer called commodity money, but fiduciary money, after the Latin word fide, meaning trust.

Of course, if too many people come in at once demanding their gold, the banker is out of luck.
Experience may teach him that he needs to keep a reserve ratio of 1 gold unit to 3 banknotes. Any
more banknotes and he might not be able to cover withdrawals. Still, this is a somewhat risky
business, because it creates the possibility of a bank run or bank panic. That happens when
people become afraid that a bank may not be in sound condition, and they start withdrawing their
gold to protect themselves. Once this process starts, however, it becomes a vicious circle, as
disappearing reserves create yet more panic and more customers running to the bank to be the first
to withdraw their gold. The result is a bank failure, leaving most of the customers holding worthless
banknotes. These sort of bank panics have the effect of reducing the money supply, which can --
and often did -- result in higher unemployment, recession and even depression.

Fiduciary money was widespread in Europe by the early 19th century. During the Napoleonic wars,
however, Britain found itself hard-pressed to fund its war effort. So the Bank of England
temporarily scrapped the fiduciary system and issued fiat money instead -- money whose value
was determined not by gold, but by the command, or fiat, of the government. After the war,
England returned to a fiduciary gold system, although people were not allowed to cash in their notes
for gold unless it was for very large amounts, usually for international trade.

Temporarily suspending the gold standard in favor of fiat money during times of war became
common over the next century. During the American Civil War, the government interrupted its
policy of gold convertibility and issued nonconvertible "greenbacks" instead. During World War I,
all belligerent nations did much the same. It is interesting to note that during times of war, when a
nation's survival is on the line and it must boost productivity, the economic policies its leaders resort
to are always liberal ones. Fiat money, tax hikes and Keynesian monetary expansions result in
booming economies, hence the truism that "war is good for the economy." It took economists and
politicians over a century to learn that these policies could be applied during times of peace as well.

In 1821, Britain became the first nation to switch to a full gold standard. Until then, nations had used
a bimetallic regime of gold and silver. In the 1870s, the U.S. and the rest of Europe followed suit,
after the discoveries of huge gold deposits in the American West. From then until 1914, the world
would operate under a unified gold standard. This era is known as the Gilded Age, and it offers us a
chance to assess the advantages and disadvantages of the gold standard, or at least an early version
of it.

Bitter controversy over the gold standard was a hallmark of the Gilded Age. It was widely regarded
as a tool of the rich. Democratic presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan spoke for the poor
when he charged, famously, that "You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold." The U.S.
suffered three depressions during the Gilded Age, and the gold standard and its bank panics were
often held to blame.

Throughout this era, the value of gold was fixed at a certain price. One U.S. dollar, for example,
was defined as 23.22 grains of pure gold. A British pound sterling was defined as 113.00 grains of
pure gold. This meant that the total value of a nation's money supply was determined by the size of
its gold reserves. Furthermore, fixed rates meant that international exchange rates were also fixed. In
other words, the world operated under a single, unified monetary system. One British pound always
equaled 4.8665 U.S. dollars ( 113.00/23.22 ) , at least according to the official rate. The actual rates
might fluctuate, due to the shifting supply and demand of international trade, but the nations set up a
system to make sure that they never fluctuated too far from the official rate. This system was rather
complex, but basically it kept exchange rates stable and close to the official rate by making sure that
nations with trade deficits paid their bills quickly and directly in gold. ( 1 )

But there were economic consequences to such a system. Suppose Britain ran up a trade deficit
with the U.S., and promptly paid in gold. The U.S. money supply would expand, and its economy
would experience a mixture of inflation and growth. Conversely, the British money supply would
shrink. Theoretically, this should have resulted in deflation, but in practice it resulted in widespread
unemployment, due to price stickiness. Therefore, outflows of gold from a country were often very
painful to its economy. And when people learned that gold was leaving the country, they often
conducted bank runs, trying to withdraw their gold before it ran out. Thus, the Gilded Age was
replete with bank panics and failures.

The Gilded Age was brief, lasting from the 1870s to 1914, when World War I broke out. During
the war, nearly all nations either placed restrictions on gold convertibility or issued non-convertible
paper money. But one of their top priorities after the war was the recreation of the full gold
standard. It took several years before they succeeded. Britain restored its gold standard in 1925,
but in an act of folly, made the pound worth $4.86 again in U.S. dollars -- its old, pre-war parity.
Unfortunately, the pound was overvalued at this price now, due to changes in the price of gold, and
Britain subsequently experienced a drastic outflow of gold. Again, severe unemployment was the
result, not the expected deflation. Britain would struggle with unemployment for the rest of the

By 1928, all the major currencies and most of the minor ones had returned to the gold standard. But
the coming Great Depression would lay bare all its disadvantages. A unified monetary system meant
that no nation could protect itself from a disaster that occurred in another nation. When the
depression struck in the U.S., it quickly ricocheted across the Atlantic. In the U.S., two gigantic
bank runs caused over 10,000 bank failures. So many people were left holding worthless banknotes
that the money supply shrank by about a third -- a catastrophic reduction.

When Roosevelt took office in 1933, unemployment had soared to nearly 25 percent. His
inauguration took place literally in the middle of a third bank panic. Roosevelt stopped it in its tracks
by doing something novel: he intervened. He declared a "banking holiday" that closed banks to the
public for eight days, to prevent further withdrawals. During that time, the banking system was
reorganized. When banks finally reopened, banks deposits actually exceeded bank withdrawals. It
was a tremendous political success for Roosevelt, and America's last bank run. Later under the
New Deal, bank deposits would become insured by the federal government.

After the Great Depression struck, the world wasted little time severing its ties to gold. Britain left
the gold standard in 1931, as did the U.S. in 1933. By 1937, not a single country remained on the
gold standard. After World War II, the U.S. partially restored the gold standard for international
trade. And to prevent citizens from bank panics, it made its currency inconvertible at home. In
1971, a diminishing gold supply and growing deficits caused the U.S. to suspend the gold standard
even for international trade. Ever since, international trade has been based solely on the dollar and
other paper currencies. Today, there are no mainstream economists who call for a return to the gold
standard; it is widely regarded as a fringe idea of the radical right.

Modern arguments on the gold standard

Gold bugs cite two reasons in particular for returning to the gold standard. The first is that it
prevents nations from an irresponsible expansion in the money supply to pay its debts. This is what
happened to Argentina. After printing too much money and suffering disastrous inflation, Argentina
passed a law tying its currency to the U.S. dollar. This may not be the optimal strategy for
Argentina, but it's far better than what it was doing. Likewise, Italy has sought a measure of
monetary responsibility by tying its currency to the German mark. So the gold bugs do have a few
case histories to point to.

Even so, this reason is weak. Argentina did not need a gold standard to tie its currency to a more
responsible country and solve its problems. Furthermore, a monetary policy that's right for one
country might be completely wrong for another. For example, in the early 1990s, Europe tried to
unify its currency by tying it to the German mark. But subsequently the German economy boomed
while the rest of Europe became mired in double-digit unemployment. And following Germany's
anti-inflationary monetary policy only made things worse, because it was exactly the opposite policy
they should have been following. Finally, many countries have established long and sound
reputations with fiat money -- Switzerland, Japan and the U.S., for example.

The second reason cited for a gold standard is because it creates certainty in international trade by
providing a fixed pattern of exchange rates. The current system contains a degree of uncertainty --
in the last five years, the dollar has swung between 80 and 120 yen. This tends to make economic
analysis and planning difficult for international traders. The costs of such uncertainty are difficult to
determine, but they are expected to be significant. However, trade comprises only 10 percent of the
U.S. economy, and compared to the enormous benefits of fiat money, these costs are minuscule by

What are the benefits of the current system? The most important has already been mentioned: the
elimination of depressions. Being able to expand the money supply in times of unemployment and
recession is a critical tool for government. Before World War II, eight U.S. recessions worsened
into depressions ( as happened in 1807, 1837, 1873, 1882, 1893, 1920, 1933, and 1937 ) . Since
World War II, under Keynesian monetary policies, there have been nine recessions ( 1945-46,
1949, 1954, 1956, 1960-61, 1970, 1973-75, 1980-83, 1990-92 ) , and not one has turned into a
depression. In fact, no nation in the world has suffered a depression under Keynesian policies.

The current monetary system also gives us protection from less scrupulous or unfortunate countries.
A bank run that starts in Europe is not going to end up in America, thanks to the flexibility and
autonomy of the Federal Reserve Board.

And fiat money also gives economists a chance to tie the appropriate size of the money supply to
what's actually happening in the economy. In the end, the amount of gold a nation has is completely
irrelevant to its level of economic activity. Gold is a commodity that experiences price swings. A
change in dentistry or electronics is enough to change the entire market. To see how unrelated it is,
consider the following trends. Since the U.S. dropped the gold standard in 1971, the price of gold
has risen tenfold. But consumer prices have risen only two and a half times. If the U.S. had instituted
a full gold standard in 1971, the result would have been the worst deflation since the Great
Depression. And considering that widespread unemployment is usually the result, not deflation, it is
easy to see the why such a policy would increase the risk of a depression.

Gold bugs also face an enormously challenging question: what kind of gold standard would they like
to create? One based on fractional reserves? But that led to countless bank runs. Furthermore, as a
practical matter, it doesn't stop banks or governments from changing the money supply, simply by
changing the amount of fiduciary notes.

So the only purist alternative is a return to commodity money, where a bill is backed 100 percent by
gold. But there is no longer enough gold in the modern world to cover the needed economic activity.
We have already mined all the major deposits, and without new discoveries to match the growing
economy, a pure gold standard would see a troublesome fall in commodity prices. Even worse,
industry is also increasing its demand on the gold store. In past centuries gold had very little
secondary use, so it proved useful as money. Today, modern technology has found a growing
number of applications, and industry is consuming more and more of it. In response to all this, a
monetary authority could periodically reduce the amount of gold defined as the dollar, but this is no
different from the floating, fiat money that the gold bugs so bitterly criticize.

So the gold bugs would have to resolve historical and theoretical challenges of King-Midas
proportions before they could ever reinstate the gold standard. But if a workable gold standard
requires a tremendous amount of design, effort, regulation and safeguards, we might as well use fiat
money, which is already simple and enjoys a successful track record.

Related Essay: Austrian School of Economics

Return to Overview


1. The method of paying trade deficits during the Gilded Age worked something like this. Suppose
Britain bought more products from the U.S. than vice-versa. Britain therefore owed the U.S.
money; it had a trade deficit. Obviously, the British needed to pay the Americans in their own
currency, dollars. So the British demand for dollars rose, and this drove up the price of the dollar on
the foreign exchange market. The British could have simply paid the higher price, but they also had a
second option by international agreement. They could convert their British pounds into gold, ship it
to America, and then sell the gold for dollars at the higher American price. This saved them money
only when the deficit became large enough to justify the cost of a trans-Atlantic shipment of gold.
This cost threshold was known as the "gold point," and it ensured that the actual exchange rate did
not fluctuate too far from the official exchange rate. In short, this system meant that Britain paid its
deficit quickly and directly in gold.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:26 - ID#200235)
IN answering your question when will it all end?


It is very convenient that Canada announced the sale ( past tense ) the day after POG spiked up USD $5.40.

It appears that Canadian CB has joined in the unholy and ultimately unsuccessful attempt to fix the price of gold below $300.00 per oz.

When the short squeeze comes, as it surely will, every CB on the planet will announce the sale or the intention to sell their gold reserves.

The CB's have been very successful in containing the POG for the last 2 years. The question is WHY?

When the Vatican announces that it sold gold yesterday, watch out.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:28 - ID#373284)
Third in the House of Aragorn, Namaste' gulp to ya...I got scared is all, you know
I get nervous around all that college talk, tons of Princes don't ya know

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:29 - ID#189268)
Sig_a re 17:36
Argentina is the exception because of their currency board affilliation. I noted this point in one of my earlier posts but forgot to mention it again. The curency board is really a trap and can be quite devestating. Look at the situation in Hong Kong for example they are in a recession because the have the peg and they are not competitive at this time. Argentina is likewise struggling with the burden of this juggernaut dollar but their economy is being crushed by it in reality. My sister-in-law is Argentinian and I have some knowledge of their misgivings on this topic.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:29 - ID#210114)
Now that I have your attention.........
Has anyone done the tour of the New York Fed's Gold vault??

Live Long and Prosper.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:33 - ID#212323) was bunk when I first read it long ago...
and nothing has changed. A finer example of flawed reasoning I would be hard pressed to find.

Except for gold at 196.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:33 - ID#411259)
..... Gollum & A III .....

I dont get it, that cant be right.
The story says they sat there quietly
Nowhere was it mentioned
That anybody raised a hand
It must be 3 black dots

Dont matter though
I get the girl


(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:38 - ID#411259)
..... Not Even I .....

Would call for $196
Nor neither either $250
I think the lows will hold


(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:38 - ID#373284)
Spock, Namaste' and a gulp to effect what you are discussing is the actual
death of the individuals that call themselves central bankers...without an orderly method to bring the world out of not only the impending financial rape by the politicians and bankers combined with the severe computer problems soon to unfold there very beings would be threatened which would culminate in their inability to inhale and exhale...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:39 - ID#338111)
Spock, ALL
Gold vault - No, haven't seen. Like to though. Not unlike my own little stash.

Just bigger.

As for government ability to print money when there's a crisis and avert a depression. Well as far as I can see the Jury is still out on that one. Personally I think the growth in paper money supply, IMF bailouts and government borrowing from CB's to pay for deficits is putting off the enevitable - eventual systemic failure. All they can do is postpone the event. Eventually the market retailiates - with a vengence.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:39 - ID#212323)
RJ...see, the gist of it was that they all sat there for a considerable period...
none of them sure of the outcome. If the details of who's hands were raised had been divulged, well, where's the sport in that?

Another reason, no doubt, for the princes' long uncomfortable silence was likely based in the knowledge that the girl had already been had.
...thankyou very much!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:40 - ID#210114)
What are you on about??

Live Long and Prosper.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:43 - ID#269207)
I reaaly hope not ( going back on gold ) , because I don't think they could pass up the opportunity to restrict trading......really..don't think they could.....damn damn

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:43 - ID#197211)
I think we all know that Armstrong bought a large intrest in a gold mine recently...........His 8.6 year confidence model seems to have nailed the July 20 turning point in the U.S. Stock Markets. But remember, he has stated many times that he is not exactly sure why his model works. So as to cycles, maybe this works some times. But Armstrong has made some pretty heavy bets outside his cycle. The first being the Japan big bang at the end of the year unleashing trillions in pension money to head to our markets. Armstrong is pretty tight with Japan and no doubt would like to direct some of this torrent headed our way. Things can change here very fast. What if Japan decides to put a finger in the dike and keep the money at home. Our the money decides to go to Europe. Then what happens to Armstrong and his dollar, yen, commodity predictions? Next he has bet that Europe will complelety screw themselves with their new currency. Maybe they don't. Maybe they get it right and there off to the races. So don't buy into Armstrong because his cycle hit the July 20 turning point right on the nose. His other predictions really have nothing to do with his cycle and what will happen no one knows at this point in time.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:43 - ID#288369)
@For the record..........
I liquidated the Bonds in my childrens' trust accounts today. I realize there will be a time lag between the commencement of the sustained slide in the dollar and the resultant interest rate hikes, but, Bonds are near their high and so is their brother, the debt-ridden dollar.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:43 - ID#210114)
Next time I'm in 'Merka, the New York Fed
Will be on my list of 'must sees'.

All those bars of gold MMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............


Live Long and Prosper.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:44 - ID#210114)
End of the Great Depression
Came when governments expanded the money supply just as Keynes suggested. Even Milton Friedman said 'print' in a deflationary recession.

Live Long and Prosper.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:45 - ID#257136)
Masterufl writing JTF
Your superb piece of disinformation was interesting.

History gives it the lie specifically in regard to the ( Lunar as in Loony ) cycle you credit for the changes in sociological and economic forces.
It is obvious-to me- that the machinations of Cecil Rhodes and his successors as well as the goals and successes of Anschelm Mayer Rothschild and his progeny have not been treated to your perusal.

I recommend a hearty month or two spent studying the actual histories of events such as you think you were describing.
As to the repetition of certain phases, they do recurr.
Mostly because people "who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
That and the fact the persons who actually control the economies of this planet, are master psychologists.
They even hire guys ( or gals ) like yourself to pimp for them and distract people from their goals which may be in opposition to those of your handlers.
Or masters as it may be!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:45 - ID#373284)
Spock, Namaste' What I am about is meaningless to the conversation. However
what I am stipulating is that in a world where one individual can carry enough firepower to level a city the so-called big shots no longer have the absolute controls in place that they have in times past. Many more people in the world enjoy a higher standard of living than a mere fifty years ago.

Take this away and expose the empty underbelly which is the thieving, lying ways and methods of the politicians and bankers and the world becomes very much more ripe for bloodshed and those who eat caviar falsely shall pay with their lives...simple really...

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:45 - ID#295111)
@spock and gold standard
The summary doesn't make sense to me and is VERY VERY hypocritcal.

At present, we are not on the gold standard.
So then, why do we have recessions/deflations/inflations?? You can blame it on gold not cause we are not on the gold standard.

More correct is to say that you will always have recessions/deflations whether or not you are on a gold standard.

What is KEY is the magnitude of the recessions/depressions.

On a gold standard!!!!!, recessions will both not last as long and not be as severeve as when there is no gold standard. That is, cycles will be shorter in length as not as variable.

I hope the US back the greenback with 100% gold cause then the POG will go to 30k.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:46 - ID#411259)
..... Damn Dots .....

What actually happened is this:

I knew the King was crafty
And I know the king liked trading
And all traders like deals
What I really whispered in the Kings ear was:

"If you give me the girl, I promise to stop shorting gold"

He went for it
As I knew he would
Hes an OK guy, for a king.


(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:47 - ID#411163)
Lock & Lode
I believe the reason the bank would seperate your checking account money into two different parts has to do with lendable or reserves money for them.
For instance, if a bank is paying you interest on your checking account then that money is counted as part of their reserves. The part they are not paying interest on is "call money" and is available to the customer at any time. If push comes to shove they can deny you a large portion of what you think is your "call money" If the bank gets into trouble they can also take your savings and pay off your loans. EVEN IF THEY ARE CURRENT!! Always keep you saaving in another bank.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:49 - ID#411259)
..... A III .....

Shes already been HAD?
I want a rematch
And a fresh prize


(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:49 - ID#224363)
Any thoughts on there are so few acquisitions ?
I've noticed that the big boys in Gold Mining have been very quiet with respect to acquisitions, etc. Could it be that they don't think the end is near yet.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:49 - ID#212323)
Hey Tol-Cool-One
Why don't you give Armstrong a crash course in reality...introduce him to the Cuervo Central shaman's bones. Let him know how we reward uselessness in these parts.

$196.00 gold...Ah HA HA Ha hah aha ha ah aha hahhah aha ha...gasp...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:51 - ID#210114)
Tantalus Rex
You have it the wrong way around: Depressions have occurred under the gold standard but not under discretionary monetary policy as Keynes advocated. The article makes this clear.

You will always have fluctuations in the business cycle; gold standard or not. Discretionary monetary policy allows you to moderate them; counter-cyclical policy.

As I have said, the end of the Great Depression occured when Keynes was put into effect.

Live Long and Prosper.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:55 - ID#373284)
Third in the House of Aragorn, Namaste' and a gulp to ya...I have just consulted
with the Shaman...he says no deal...he heard the $196.00 comment and he is now out in the yard near the fire dribbling with laughter...he will be useless the rest of the evening...for sure...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:55 - ID#434108)
Monika & Clinz & Washington's biz, flase distractions & delivered truth
swirl & twirl
Marine Band's trumpants...
they report,
the current row....
in Washing D.C.'s current 'snow'

Distraction town - DC
is all around, & free

while legions fall
selling out
to their

just as...
So Koreans sell their babies
and Indonesians grovel
in the next puppet regime's
arrogant ground

but Washington's Washinton
in DC's endless swirl
and unending distraction
of Clinton's waltz with Lewinsky's....

a pretended contest
of integrity's dance

while denying the electorate's
extracting demand
from the lance
of sliding slashing blow...
that is genuine integrity's
un-yielding blow...

would all humanity
sacrifice itself.....?!

so rendered
and wrenching
and bleeding
till -
too low...

too sacrificed
on the altar
of false money
and corruped credit




while Washington wings triumphant
in feigned importance
and media's distraction

only delaying

the caldron
of cleansing reality


Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:56 - ID#295111)
But under Keynes spending, you cure depression with inflation.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:56 - ID#210114)
Beaming up now.................
To boldly go.......

(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:57 - ID#411259)
..... A III & Gollum ....

I will accept you answer
But if hands were raised
And we did not hear about it
There are three possible answers
All three of which I already gave

I want three girls


And they better be fresh!

Righty O

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:58 - ID#212323)
Sorry Spock, your least your heart is in the right place(?)
"You have it the wrong way around: Depressions have occurred under the
gold standard but not under discretionary monetary policy as Keynes
advocated. The article makes this clear."

The article may make it CLEAR, but it doesn't make it TRUTH. OK?


(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:58 - ID#338111)
Cause of the Great Depression
My understanding is that government ran a loose monetary policy which fuelled the stock market and property price boom. In this case, increasing the paper claims to gold in their vaults. ( The equiv. of low interest rates and credit expansion today ) .

The subsequent crash was the realisation that the bull run was unsustainable caused by the easy money the government made available.

A similar thing happened in Australia. After the crash of 87, governments ran loose monetary policy fearing a repeat of the 29 depression. They actually made matters worse, by artifically fuelling an unsustainable property boom. The result - severe monetary contraction interest rates at 17%.

Conclusion - id did not need to be as bad as that. As long as government resisited the urge to act to "minimize" the crisis.

They never do. You can bet money on it!

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 20:59 - ID#295111)
The Romulan awaits your return Spock. Adios.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:01 - ID#288369)
your presentation tonight was a good exercise. thanks. G&P to YA!! ( gulp and puff ) or ( gold n' power )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:02 - ID#411259)
..... Oh yeah .....

And I want the girls guarded until the contest ends

Aragorn III will not have his randy way with these fine lasses

InDamnDeedy - O

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:05 - ID#374204)
tolerant1 - I just got here. Gold @ $196.00 ??? Hush yo' mouth!
You've been talking to Tantalus Rex ( T-Rex? ) I'm the other.

T-Rex: was lurking here a couple of weeks before grabbing the handle-
sorry but I didn't see ya.

If you're really a T-Rex and start to munch my toesies and crunch my
bonsies, I'll go ooch-ouch ooch-ouch ooch-ouch and change my handle.

And tip a jigger of Reposado Las Trancas to ya both.
( Medicinal Purposes )

Mr. Mick
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:07 - ID#345321)
Speaking of $196 Gold, didn't the BIS say they would buy all gold.........
below $280???????????

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:07 - ID#295111)
I'll be Back tomorrow to kick some more ass.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:15 - ID#288369)
@Gold=Net Worth.
The countries that are selling their gold have a net worth problem. They can't afford the cost of holding an asset. And as studio has always said, your assets are your greatest liabilities.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:16 - ID#212323)
RJ...ah, the pangs of lost love...
While you said that in the case of raised hands there would be THREE possibilities, all of which you assessed...dradnabit...your thinking is still clouded by that fairest of maidens, who was indeed quite a "fresh prize" as you would have.

You see, in actual fact, there are only TWO possibilities. The cleverest of princes, RJ, either leaps to his feet and says "I have a black dot," or else he leaps to his feet and says "I have a red dot."

Except for the single case of ALL red dots, it matters not which prince has which colored dot. Any of the princes can deduce the color of his own dot by the showing of hands and the dots that he sees. Even if he has one of the two red dots, for example, where three hands are raised.

Only in the case of three red dots does the ability to think outside of the box ( rather than focusing on the lusty moans you hear from the prize's bedchamber at that very moment...thank you very much ) serve to your advantage...claiming before the other princes do-- "I have a red dot!"

Without Gollum's comment that a period of time passed, there would be no way to know what combination of dots was employed, nor which color the valiant Prince RJ had upon his brow. As it is, there can be only one...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:16 - ID#43349)
@Mr. Mick
And did they say how FAR below?

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:18 - ID#295111)
Tantalus_A, tolerant1
Sometimes the tolerant1 is on too much tequila, come to think of it, I think he's on tequila all the time and does nothing else, which is ok my me.

As for me. I'm a T-Rex alright but I'm also The King, the king of tantalizing. to you later or I'll have to munch your toesies.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:18 - ID#212323)
Gollum....Whaaaaah! Ha ha ha ha ahah aha haaha hahah!

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:18 - ID#295111)
Tantalus_A, tolerant1
Sometimes the tolerant1 is on too much tequila, come to think of it, I think he's on tequila all the time and does nothing else, which is ok my me.

As for me. I'm a T-Rex alright but I'm also The King, the king of tantalizing. to you later or I'll have to munch your toesies.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:19 - ID#373284)
Tantalus_A and TantalusRex, Namaste' and a gulp ya...
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...mistaken tantalus' Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:20 - ID#411259)
..... Bird Brain .....

Mama Mock has taken to dive bombing me whenever I go out on the patio
Doesnt she know Im one her side, I named her chicks even

Birds seeeeeeesh

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:21 - ID#43349)
SIU8 5.450
Up 4 and gold has moved neitther a jot mor a tittle. The games afoot, boys.

Soembody og get jonesy and PH_in_LA and Fox_man.

COMEX stocks didn't budge an inch for three days, but silver is doing strange things in the middle of the night.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:27 - ID#255190)
Copper & silver were the coin of the working class. A typical wage was 200 pennies a year or there abouts. This was for unskilled labor. The penny was a livable wage, unless grain was tight due to disruptions of one kind or another. Then one might have to simply work to eat and eat to work with no chance to build up a 'retirement fund'.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:28 - ID#287279)
The Current Crash of 1998
Is the worst so far this Century

By Martin A. Armstrong
Princeton Economic Institute
 Copyright August 5th, 1998

There are many ways to measure the magnitude of a crash. Some might look at the overall points. This is not a valid statistic since the entire Crash of 1929 was a move from 386 to 40 on the Dow Jones Industrials. The more proper method of measuring the magnitude of any decline is in percentage terms. Looking at the overall percentage decline for the entire move gives one a clear sense of total magnitude. On this basis, the 1987 Crash was 40% compared to the Crash of 1929 of 89.6%.

However, there is also a third way to look at the great crashes in history and that has to do with momentum and speed. We have looked at this issue several times in the past and we here provide a table illustrating how the Dow Jones Industrials faired following the immediate highs of 1929, 1937, 1946, 1966, 1973 and 1987. What is interesting, is that at the end of todays session, the S&P 500 futures fell to 1060.00 on an intraday basis. The record high established precisely on July 20th in line with our Economic Confidence Model was 1199.40. Thus far within 12 trading days, the overall percentage decline between the high and low is 11.62%. Believe it or not, this is the WORST decline of this century when measured on a percentage basis for the first 12 days following a major high.

First Decline in Dow
1929 16 days 10.67%
1937 22 days 10.07%
1946 40 days 8.95%
1966 24 days 9.54%
1973 20 days 10.58%
1987 34 days 9.68%
1998 12 days 11.62%
See detailed Table
See detailed Charts
As we can see from the above table, so far 1998 has dropped faster than any previous decline so far for this century. The previous declines of shocking magnitude in 1929 began on the second decline. The first major low following 1929 high took place on day 23. There was a brief 5-day reaction from the 320.5 to 358.8 level on the Dow or 11.95% gain from the 23 day low. However, things turned ugly shortly thereafter. The following 6 days saw the Dow make another new low on day 34. The next day, the Dow exceeded the previous days high but failed to close above it. Thus, day 35 was the last attempt to bottom-pick. The Crash of 1929 began on day 36 and continued lower each day, with the exception of a 2-day reaction until the first major low on day 51  a decline of 49.39%.

The 1987 decline saw two temporary-lows before the big crash unfolded. The first temp low came on day 10 followed by a 4-day reaction to the upside. The market fell once again to a new low on day 20. This was again followed by a more sustainable reaction, which lasted for 8 days. Again, we see a new low on day 34 followed by a 1 day reaction on day 35. This time, the 1-day reaction did manage to close just above the high of the previous day. Day 36 saw the start of the real meltdown and the final low came in on day 40 down 40.03%.

What we find interesting is that in both cases of 1929 and 1987, the meltdown began on day 36. We also see important lows on day 40. In the case of 1929, there was a 2-day reaction followed by another round of selling into day 51. However, in 1987 day 40 was the final low. Even when we look at other markets such as the Nikkei, the decline for the first 11 trading days was only 5.44% and curious enough the meltdown began on the 34th trading day. The Nikkei continued lower falling 30.04% into the first major temporary low on the 64th trading day. In gold we also see a similar pattern from the 1980 high. The drop from $873 to $599 took place within the first 22 trading days and the meltdown to $453 began on the 34 trading day reaching its low on the 48th day of trading minus 48.1% before a sustainable reaction materialized.

The interesting aspect of this limited comparison is how these patterns actually materialize relative to our models. Currently we see a Panic Cycle due the week after Labor Day going into the week of September 14th. Given the July 20th high, trading day 40 arrives on September 14th, 1998 precisely in line with our Panic Cycles. The 34th trading day turns out to be Friday, September 4th just before the long weekend for Labor Day. We have often seen normal markets reverse trend following Labor Day as vacations are over and new strategies emerge.

Another important point to note is that the June low has now been penetrated in the Dow, S&P 500, and London FTSE. This key monthly support now warns that a correction is underway from a technical perspective. While that may sound obvious, it is not. Minor set-backs do NOT take out previous monthly support levels. The key markets to watch are the Continental Europeans. Once these markets also take out their June lows, we are most likely headed for a reasonable correction in the area of 23% for the US and more likely 40% for Europe. It is alo IMPORTANT to note that we have NOT elected a single Weekly Bearish Reversal since this bull market began on April 1st, 1994 ( the start of the current 8.6-year business cycle on our Economic Confidence Model ) . We have 4 Weekly Bearish Reversals in the S&P 500 futures at 1100.50, 1099.00, 1071.00 and 1001.00. We have penetrated the first three intraday whereas the first Monthly Bearish resides also at 1001.00. A weekly closing above 1100.50 at the end of this week will signal a reaction to the upside. However, at the very least, we would need to see a weekly closing back ABOVE 1127.50 in order to see a solid consolidation phase begin. A close for this week BELOW 1099 will warn that reactions may be met with stiff resistance and a close for the week BELOW 1071.00 will warn that we should expect a test of the 1001 level by early September. Check the daily reports on these markets for specific targets and timing objectives.

Fundamentally, earnings are clearly slowing from that of 1997. We suspect that they will NOT meet expectations during the second half of 1998. The Y2K problem will impact earnings as industry continues to try to cope with the 2000 deadline. However, European profits may fall even worse as companies prepare not merely for Y2K, but also with keeping two sets of books for the next 4 year transition period in the Euro. Combined these issues with continued problems in Japan, China and Russia, and it is hard to see where double digit growth can be expected going into the second half of 1998 or 1999.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:28 - ID#43349)
Spot 5.44
Looks like it moved kust before the Hong Kong market opened. Someone is trying to buy everything he can get, but veyr very quietly.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:30 - ID#255190)
JTF@18:38 Am I sure about this? YES..

I read it on the internet ;- ) No, really, it was a transcript of this person's comments made to a committee of one kind or another. I was utterly shocked when I read that. It is so arcane that I don't think 1 person in 100 would have thought much of it. The rational and implications are mine ( and I believe inescapable ) . I'll try to post the source tomorrow.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:30 - ID#212323)
And I might add that pennies in early American history contained about four times as much copper as a modern ( pre-zinc ) penny. They were big!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:31 - ID#401460)
Commodity Costs

Cotton Soars on Crop Estimates

Cotton futures prices Thursday rose sharply a second day on the New York Cotton Exchange as investors bet the government would lower its production estimates after drought wiped out parts of the crop in Texas and the South.

On other markets, pork futures rallied, while gasoline futures rose sharply on a refinery snag.

Futures prices also were supported as China suffered the worst flooding in more than 40 years, with 11 million acres of farmland wiped out. China vies yearly with the United States for title of the world's largest producer, but it uses most of what it grows domestically.

Gasoline and crude futures also got a boost from the rising tensions between Iraq and the United Nations.

September unleaded gasoline rose .93 cent to 42.87 cents a gallon; September crude oil rose 8 cents to $13.76 a barrel.

Factory orders totaled a seasonally adjusted $330.5 billion in June, up from $330.2 billion, the Commerce Department said Thursday. According to the Labor Department, first-time claims for unemployment benefits rose only slightly to 307,000 last week from a 15-week low of 301,000 the previous week.

Orders for computer and office equipment jumped 7 percent. They increased 1.6 percent for industrial machinery, 3.5 percent for stone, clay and glass products and 6.5 percent for navigation, medical and other instruments. They also rose for food and chemical products.

Wheat Higher; Corn, Soybeans Lower

Wheat futures rose amid surprisingly strong weekly export sales of 797,000 metric tons and reports of smaller-than-expected yields from a crop tour of some spring wheat growing regions.

Wheat for December delivery rose 4 1/4 cents to $2.67 1/2 a bushel; December corn fell 3/4 cent to $2.19 3/4 a bushel December oats rose 1/4 cent to $1.10 1/2 a bushel; November soybeans fell 2 1/4 cents to $5.39 a bushel.

Pork futures rose strongly on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange amid sharply higher cash prices. Live cattle futures retreated, while feeder cattle were mixed.

October lean hogs rose 1.63 cents to 44.85 cents a pound; August pork bellies rose 2.15 cents to 64.75 cents a pound. October live cattle fell .65 cent to 61.32 cents a pound; September feeder cattle rose .15 cent to 69.20 cents a pound.


(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:31 - ID#252150)
Richard Butler@A disgrace to the people of Australia & the Human Race
I just watched him on PBS & saw a shifty eyed career bureaucrat who is an American lackey who would keep the inspections going indefinitely. IMO he is cooperating in a sham that has resulted in genocide. For 8 years they have been searching for & destroying weapons & they keep moving the goal posts. It is very obvious that the U.S. has no intention of removing sanctions as long as Saddam is in power. So in their cowardly way they make the innocent people of Iraq pay with increasing impoverishment & child mortality.

Meanwhile it's perfectly O.K. for Israel to test new guided missiles in Lebannon that can fly around buildings & resulted in the death of a shepherd a few days ago.

I personally don't really care what happens to Clinton re: Lewinsky & think that the whole affair has been "blown" out of proportion. But for his participation in the genocide of the Iraqi people, I hope that the SOB burns in hell.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:32 - ID#255190)
Danny DeVito

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:32 - ID#255190)
Aragorn III
Twin brothers from different mothers? Very possibly seperated from birth. Like Arnold and what's his name in "Twins".

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:33 - ID#212323)
Yep...I'm pure evil...Danny DeVito.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:33 - ID#43349)
Silver has been up against gold all day. It moved a nickel this morning when everything was quiet. Now it's moving again, yet there is no news anywhere to be found.

If they mention silver at all it's a one or two sentence afterthought at the end.....

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:36 - ID#373284)
From money on up everything is a promise, when people sign contracts today
they EXPECT, health, severance and a host of other yada, yada, yada...well I say there is no free lunch and the whole planet needs a good dose of that again to wake the f_ck up...this fat cat living without the effort is over for a while and I say good riddance...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:37 - ID#255190)

DO watch out for those 'new and improved features' that supposedly do nothing.I can see your point about the subdivision of accounts and your suggested rational. If this showed up in a few widely different banks, etc then I would be wondering about a conspiracy. As it is, the only thing I could think is that its some kind of a screw up that has been in the works for years and no one could kill it so it is finally being "implemented'. It very well may have no function other than to appear to be an important feature which was really designed to get someone a promotion, eh;- )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:39 - ID#255190)
Anyone have a confirming rumor?

About warehouse activity near major cities. I'd like to see one of these things. A 45 day's supply of necessities for an entire urban population would be very immense. Could it possibly be a more modest effort to build up a supply depot for troops or law enforcement efforts???

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:39 - ID#411259)
..... Aragorn III .....

Now capers nimbly in a ladys chamber
To the lascivious pleasing of a lute

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:39 - ID#288369)
A Gulp...A YA!!!!! Now you're singin'.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:40 - ID#373284)
Allan, Namaste' and a gulp to ya...aside from the fact that I do not trust banks
because they represent the government and not me their could be something as simple as their method of trying to gauge the Y2K effect and anticipating how much cash they may need in the event of total chaos and fear...

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:41 - ID#212323)
All that talk about free lunches and fat cats makes me realize how hungry I am. After a hard round of posting, I think I've earned a ham sammich. : ) make a sandwich...and maybe make a phone ring many miles from here...

Oh, and on the topic of gold...1-9-6...Whaaaahhhahhahhaha ha haha haha!
Weeping tears of hysteria! The joy... the madness... the insanity of the price... Ah haha hahah haha hahah hah h aha hah gasp...

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:41 - ID#377196)
Bank accounts
So let's see, with two accounts you can get only part of your money
out. You have to wait for the rest of it. Meanwhile prices are
rising due to shortages which devalues the money the bank still has
in your name and you can't do anything about it.

What about t-Bills?

Gold is looking better and better.

RJ: All the dots were black. I solved this puzzle at 1:22. The
reason I solved it so fast is that it took me forever at age 12 when
I first heard of it. I never forgot. It is the only solution given
the information. The king lied. That was his way of his being able to
tell which one was not a fool. In other words; don't believe everything
you are told. Think for yourself. That was why the king was king. He
was not a fool.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:42 - ID#288369)
All the meows a fat cat doth mew, do not a single sovereign make.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:44 - ID#338111)
Could you please explain "Namaste' and a gulp to ya"

Looks good, but I don't know what it means. :- )

BTW: Banks perform an invaluable service!

One of them has given me a job. :- ) ) )

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:44 - ID#43349)
It moved, I tell ya, it ,moved!
Now it's just laying there again. Pretending to be dead or asleep. Just waiting for me to turn my head away. It must be trying out for a Hitchcock movie. Wait a minute, he's dead. Maybe a Stephen King or Dean Koontz thing.

The Hatt
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:44 - ID#294232)
James Get Serious!
If it were up to me I would remove all the women and children from Iraq and give the men a chance to leave as a statement of no support for the murdering bastard that runs that country! Once they had made that decision I would cut them off from the world. Your sympathy towards Iraq makes me sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When you speak of cowardly senseless acts of war your leader would win the award hands down. This man should be removed and tortured the same way he has tortured his own people!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:45 - ID#347235)
When you cut and past what was obviously several chapters from a text book, instead of putting it all on screen why not give a short summary say 500 words and a url for the rest? It would save a lot of barts bandwidth and not take three minutes to scroll through. Dont get mad just a friendly suggestion.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:48 - ID#373284)
STUDIO_R, Namaste' amigo...a gulp and a puff to ya...I see folks here in NY, on
the Island and they live in fantasy land, many, many people younger than I ( 40 ) living in beautiful homes with lovely yards and they take the entire thing for granted as if they can't wait to move up...maybe its me, but I constantly sit with many different folks here and consistently ask "do you people have a clue how wonderful what you have is?"

And then I ride with them to take checks to the oil, phone, and cable companies cause the bills are late...HUH!!!

Oh...and when I say beautiful...three bedrooms, giant living rooms, dining room, seperate living room sized television/entertainment room, 3 1/2 bath, enclosed patio plus lovely outdoor patio, hot-tub...complete basements fully equipped, two garages and either right on the water or close enough to toss a rock into the sound or harbor...

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:49 - ID#212323)
Oh yeah, and I must not forget OLD ol' ham...
for bringing us the source of the evening's mirth...Armstrong's prediction of gold at $196!


(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:50 - ID#373284)
clktech_A, Namaste' and a gulp to ya, a gulp to ya and yours for good luck and
an excuse to drink tequila either Cuervo or Patron for me while wishing you for Namaste' see below...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:50 - ID#43349)
I must be dreaming.
A sort of Kafkaesque dream. I see myself in a crowded Kitco night club. All the party goers deeply rapt in their own conversation and.... SILVER IS COMING!!!

My mouth moves, but no sound comes out. I sit paralyzed with unbelief.

Whenever I look at it, it is motionless.

I look away.

I see something out of the corner of my eye.

THERE! YOU SEE?!?!? It's closer now. Closer.

No one can hear me.

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:51 - ID#377196)
RJ-and the king didn't want a fool for his daughter
because she is a lot better looking than Monica.

Cheers, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:51 - ID#230216)
196.00 gold
I can see it. Eventually....

Tomorrow will be a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad day for gold......uh huh.

cliff time...

spuds doppler effect.............. ( THUD! )

pipe it. get a good seat...

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:52 - ID#411259)
..... SILVER IS COMING! .....

Gollum -

lascivious indeedy


Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:56 - ID#377196)
Gold at $196?
Tolerant1, you had the best answer to that one ha ha ha ha ha....

Gold is up tomorrow. Along with DROOY over 2. GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:56 - ID#255190)
Bed time for this Bonzo

A III, yes but the concept of a 'penny' as the lowest denomination is still pretty universal. Even though the size changes. Bronze or brass were used as fractional pennies in small bits. This probably had to do with its utility as metal in fabrication of useful objects and hence there was always demand for money as a raw material for these products.

I doubt that you are evil. We are all sinners. As it is, self will does us in just fine.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 21:58 - ID#401460)

Argentine Q2 floods hit 80,000 farm producers

BUENOS AIRES, Aug 6 ( Reuters ) - Floodwaters that poured through Argentina's northeastern provinces in April and May affected 80,000 farm producers and caused $1.071 billion in damage, Agriculture Secretary Felipe Sola said

More than 495,000 cows died, the majority in Santa Fe and Corrientes, said Sola. Argentina's total herd is 51 mi


(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:01 - ID#300202)
What cowardly, senseless acts of war did Chretian ever commit?????
Excepting of course his floatation of Atlantic Canada into the sea.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:01 - ID#226299)
@the scene
EB -- Especially if it breaks much below 290 on the Dec contract.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:01 - ID#43349)
Bart is updating again.
It's pulled back down to 5.43. It can tell Bart's update machine is on again.

It's going to wait till later. Later and darker. Much darker.

There are too many eyes. Even this late. Yes, later. Later will be good.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:02 - ID#255190)
Indeed. Banks today live a lie. A very convenient lie which will be unmasked shortly. So many people have no clue about this. The rage and hatrid against any authority that this failure will percipitate will be untellable. We will prefer to never speak of it to those who succeed our estate after this time. God help us all.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:05 - ID#43349)
I can't take it anymore....
I'm going to retire. Anything that happens to the late goers will be their own fault. I tried to warn them. It's still out there, lurking.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:06 - ID#374204)
T#1 & T-Rex, then we agree on some things
- too much tequilla is ok
- gold will be restored to its rightfull status ( sooner the better )
- Hang Bill Clinton! and Hillary beside him!

Fundamentals are sooooo important, yes?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:06 - ID#288369)
@T#1..........The Fire and I.........been there.
There comes in a man's thirties or forties this the scare of smoke....then, the agony of burn......greedy dreams dashed by flame. It will come as an unwelcome gift, yet the scars of fire are dutifully treasured by the older man . Safely hidden from the view of the young.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:10 - ID#411259)
..... Gollum .....

I hear you

Silver may go Whoooooooooooooooosh?

Up, up, and


Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:10 - ID#377196)
Dollar Devaluation
Just a thought. Lets say there is 500 billion sitting in
savings and checking accounts. The govt. senses that the people
might want a lot of their money out.

The govt. also sees the world devaluing against the US dollar.
The US knows it must devalue in order to stay competitive. So
they do the Mexico thing and do a 1 for 10 exchange. Then they only
have to come up with 50 billion in currency and it is a lot
easier to inflate from a lower number. That is what Mexico does
all the time.


Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:10 - ID#207145)
You sellin gold short? I think we should call you shorty.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:13 - ID#411259)
..... Bloops .....

Do not imagine a diminutive lad
For EB he be
Of tall standing indeedy


(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:13 - ID#207145)
You mean the great depressionII.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:13 - ID#256223)
Radio Check

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:17 - ID#252150)
The Hatt@As usual, mindless, hysterical drivel,-trying to defend the indefensible
Hatt ( James Get Serious! ) ID#294232:
If it were up to me I would remove all the women and children from Iraq and give the
men a chance to leave as a statement of no support for the murdering bastard that runs
that country! Once they had made that decision I would cut them off from the world.
Your sympathy towards Iraq makes me sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When you speak of cowardly senseless acts of war your leader would win the award
hands down. This man should be removed and tortured the same way he has tortured
his own people!
If you read my post you will notice that nowhere do I show any sympathy towards Iraq or Saddam & am in full agreement that he is a murderous bastard.

Your idea of removing all the women & children reveals your dumb, immature John Wayne view of the world & the bad guys in it.

Why would you refer to Saddam as my leader-Chretien is bad enough.

BTW, have you ever heard of My Lai. How about Wounded Knee.

For me it's a question of morals, good & bad, evil & integrity:

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:19 - ID#226299)
@the scene
Gold Dancer -- Not while being the 'reserve currency'! A psuedo competitive devaluation perhaps, but not wholesale devaluation. Nope. Gotta wait 'till the CONfidence game is coming to a close before anything like a 1 for 10 devaluation can happen. Wait 'till those other countries NEED their money back! Hard to say exactly how the Fed will respond then but I would think they will do their absolute best to absorb it. On the other hand, should they REALLY like to crash the system to put this country more under the 'jack-boot' new world order, then all bets are off!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:19 - ID#411259)
..... Rewrite .....

It now rhymes.. well. sort of

Do not imagine he
A diminutive laddy
For EB he be
Of tall standing indeedy


(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:23 - ID#288369)
nytol ( copyright teddO )

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:25 - ID#377196)
You make some good points. But a 1 for 10 exchange is not
a devaluation. It is just an exchange so the govt can come up with
enough currency to meet the needs. The devaluation to be competitive
happens after the exchange as normal. It just happens from a lower
adjusted price level.

Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:25 - ID#396249)
Congress told today that the FAA has major Y2K problem

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:32 - ID#226299)
@the scene
Gold Dancer -- BS And semantics! Tell that to a Mexican, Russian, and ad nauseum!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:35 - ID#207145)
Get EB to tell you how he bought at the top, sometimes. ( DIS ) .

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:35 - ID#226299)
@the scene
Gold Dancer -- Dropping 0's means absolutely nothing except that your currency is in dire trouble and the government is trying to mask it. That is all! The 'cost' of retiring its obligations remains the same!

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:35 - ID#377196)
Inflation coming
The result of all the Y2K problems will be that much of the work
will have to be done by "hand". It is more inefficient and therefor
will reguire more people to be hired raising costs, full employment
and rising prices. Add the hoarding of goods and off we go...

Gold $196? In your dreams.

Go GOLD Thanks, GD

PS My girl friend has received 2 phone calls lately from
job placement people offering her work!!! She already likes her job.
Last call for gold-inflation on its way. It is our only way out
from a nightmare of defaults. And I mean a NIGHTMARE.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:37 - ID#411259)
..... James .....

You gotta' point


(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:37 - ID#207145)
Inflation likely soon
Not a lot, but some. You better pray for some, or else GREAT DEPRESSION.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:42 - ID#226299)
@the scene
Blooper -- That is probably quite correct. The 'reserve currency' nation WILL have to get more liquidity out there else it ALL comes home to roost! Funny how debt-based systems work! Also means that our interest rates should be coming down, don't you think?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:43 - ID#200298)
GOLDEN CHEESEBALL.....I am sure I have produced more gold dore than you have brains. Why do you feel
you have to make fun of other people's business. I am confused, are you for real? or did you just get picked on as a child? Take your games somewhere else.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:44 - ID#411259)
..... Bloops .....

Your posts are short
And that is the best I can say for them
However, of late your brevity offers
The gleeful rubbing of ones nose
In ones losses
I am sure this violates
The prime directive
It is not nice
It is not neighborly
It is not smart
For all have losses

Righty O

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:50 - ID#377196)
I was in Mexico during the last 1 for 100 exchange. Nothing
happens. The stores close for a few days and then business goes
on as usual. They went from 1500 pesos to 15 pesos to the dollar
across the board. There is no change. But it is a lot easier to
devalue the currency from 15 pesos than from 1500 pesos.

The exchange just makes it less expensive for the govt. They don't
have to print up new currency all the time. They use the old stuff.
It saves the a lot of money which is why they do it that way.

If our govt thinks it has to print up 500 billion of currency
they might think twice about it. They probably already have 50 billion
printed and don't want the cost of printing more.

But again, it is just a thought as to how the govt is going to
solve a problem of runs on the banks. To close the banks is really
going to get the people angry. Maybe they can print up enough
currency and there will be no problem. They better hurry.

That is all on this subject.

This probably won't happen but just how are they going to
keep the peace? They better think fast.

Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:53 - ID#210253)

I have no personal experience with Argentina except some investments in ADRs. What your sister-in-law says may well be true. Nonetheless, Argentina's current economic circumstance is better than at any time this century. Much of it due to strong currency. Lashing Peso to USD has worked well thus far, and proved itself during Mexican devaluation in fall/winter of 1994. Brazil does not have the same decipline, and is a much bigger threat to SoA. economic stability. You make a good point regarding HK. The potential problems are not *caused* by currency boards or the fixing to US$, it actually works well in more normal times. The system is now under some pressure due to relative worldwide currency weakness. The most efficient way to correct this imbalance is for the US to engineer a weakening of the US$. I belive this is likely in light of China's slowing economy and threatened devaluation. In the end, China wouldn't devalue since they know the US will trash the US$ first. Ultimately, this action by US will be good for GOLD, Hong Kong, Argentina and US politics.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:53 - ID#207145)
Don't be so high and mighty my friend. Had he bought at the lows I would brag on him. He belittled gold and that irritated me. I do think he can speak for himself. But thanks for the advice.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:55 - ID#433143)
gold dancer
easy, just print a bunch of extra dollars to cover the cost! nothing is ever going to be paid back anyway, it doesnt matter how many US dollars are in circulation, these things are in demand!! everyone wants a US dollar!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:55 - ID#401460)
Canada Crops

Canada total grain exports 26.05 mln T by July 26

``In terms of production we're projecting a wheat crop of about 22.0 million tonnes this year,'' Hehn said. ``That compares to 23.3 ( million tonnes ) last year. That includes durum.''

He said the total figure included 15.8 million tonnes of spring wheat against 18.8 million last year, and about 6.0 million tonnes of durum against 4.35 million the year before.


(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:57 - ID#401460)
USA Today

OSU Buckeyes are ranked #1 .



(Thu Aug 06 1998 22:57 - ID#207145)
I post with few words since I type so poorly. I must condense my thoughts. That could be recommended to others, yes?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:05 - ID#93241)
High Rise
That's a 10-4

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:08 - ID#219363)
Tomorrow someone is going to pull off the perfect series of trades. I wonder what they'll do - buy some PUTs here, some stocks there, trade a currency, or maybe buy some futures. Someone is going to have a perfect day, a day to end all days, a gamble that pays off big, one for the record books. Someone is going to have all the right information, have put in all the right effort, in all the right places.

Tomorrow someone will commit the perfect series of follies. I wonder what they'll be - buy some PUTs here, some stocks there, trade a currency, or maybe buy some futures. Someone is going to have a perfect day, a day to end all days, a gamble that loses everything, one for the record books. Someone is going to have all the wrong information, have made all the wrong moves, in all the wrong places.

What a beautiful game we play.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:08 - ID#200304)
GOLD DANCER.....What is the largest denomination in Pesos i.e. 100 peso note is equal to 12 dollars
U.S. but before devaluation 100 pesos = .066 U.S. doesen't that erode consumers confidence in keeping pesos over U.S. dollars?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:10 - ID#234218)
Have not seen this posted yet, but to those interested in KGC.
Thursday August 6, 12:01 pm Eastern Time
Company Press Release
SOURCE: Kinross Gold Corporation
Kinross Gold Corporation
TORONTO, Aug. 6 /CNW-PRN/ - Kinross Gold Corporation ( TSE-K; K.DB ) announced today that The Toronto Stock Exchange has accepted for filing a Notice of Intention to Make a Normal Course Issuer Bid for the common shares and 5.5% convertible unsecured subordinated debentures of the Corporation. Pursuant to the bid which commences on August 10, 1998, during the next 12 months the Corporation may purchase up to 14,641,360 common shares, being 5% of the 292,827,214 currently issued and outstanding common shares, and up to $9,791,200 principal amount of debentures, being 5% of the $195,824,000 currently issued and outstanding principal amount of debentures. All purchases will be made through the facilities of the Exchange and in accordance with the Exchange's rules and by-laws. The common shares and the debentures purchased pursuant to the bid will be cancelled. The Corporation believes that it may be advantageous to engage in repurchases of common shares and debentures, from time to time, when they are trading at prices which reflect a significant discount from the underlying value of the securities. The Corporation repurchased an aggregate of 126,300 common shares and $4,176,000 principal amount of debentures during the last 12 months.

SOURCE: Kinross Gold Corporation


(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:10 - ID#57232)
Your 20:45 -- the truth of Ravi Sarkar's human cycle analogies
a.j.: You are entitled to your opinion of course. You do yourself an injustice by presenting all negatives without coming up with your own alternative model of the historical human cycles. All that is printed on the net can be believed or disbelieved as you like, and I do not profess to be an expert in history -- just a student. I just challenge you to come up with a better model of the human condition than that of Ravi Sarkar.

What I know is incontrovertable is that those that are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of their ancestors. That is a given. Also, familiies like the Rothschilds seem to survive the cycles relatively unscathed. You gave that as an example of why I am wrong. But -- you have simply proven my point -- the Rothschilds survive for these generations simply because they are students of history. They understand very well the cycles of wealth and poverty that are the human affliction for time immemorial.
I also pose this question to you. If every individual on this earth were compassionate, and educated enough to communicate in the manner as you and I, and understood the ramifications of the confiscation effect of wealth due to taxation or other methods, would the world be in the sorry state it is in now? My answer is no -- because the people of this earth would not permit this injustice. The main premise of my argument is not mine -- I cannot tell you which author to read -- there are many -- the premise is that all political ( and military ) power comes from the people on this earth. I guess Christ or Ghandi might be good ones to start with. Think about why Christ was feared, even though he was penniless. No leader can function without the support of his/her people -- be he dictator, king, czar, communist leader, or democratically elected president. All leaders know this innately, and they also know that the people can be fooled and fleeced. Some unscrupulous leaders take advantage of this, and the good ones do not.
Heed the words of Abraham Lincoln when he talked about leaders fooling the people. My only hope is that in the future fewer people will be fooled. But -- this will take generations to occur, even if our education system was perfect the world over. I think the human race has made progress over the 8000 or so year period of known recorded history. Let us hope that we can still progress, and not regress. I still firmly believe our destiny is in the stars, and that we have the basic core technology to achieve this fairly soon. My only fear is that our world economic system is not stable enough for this to happen in a lifetime.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:14 - ID#348129)
@DUHHHH, cANADA the stupid farm
cANADA holds less than 1/10 of an ounce of Gold per citizen.
BOC just sold another 165K ounces in July.
cANADIAN $ falling like a rock for the last 20 days, especially hard today, the day of the anounced Gold sale.
DUHHH, DUHHH, DUHHH ..........

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:15 - ID#207145)
Inverted yield curve
We have one. They almost always mean recession. If the 10 year bond yields less than the Fed. Funds Rate, it means the dollar might soon fall. This is a short post RJ that has great portent for this rally, this market, and this economy.Gold migjht actually shine . There will be some inflation also.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:15 - ID#200304)
THAT IS SO PERFECT ( the ebb and flow of life ) I don't expect anything different.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:22 - ID#252150)
RJ@Thanks. Speaking of losses- I have to admit that by breaking the faith &
speculating/investing outside of the PMs, I have suffered some egregious losses. In my AU stock trades I'm up around 20% this year, but because of my forays into other sectors I'm down over 10% in my portfolio. My biggest mistake is in a Cdn Biotech & I'm also down in my ng e/ps. All the "experts" were calling for stable to higher ng prices & they have declined precipitously of late. Almost as an act of treason, I'm short Nortel & am up a little so far.

It will definitely be tough sledding from here on to make any gains whatsoever. I envy your short term focus on the mkts. I always seem to be torn between short & long term investing.I've got some good gains from selling the JY & think I would probably be better off to forget equities altogether & concentrate on futures.

I appreciate your level headed assesments of the PM mkts & have been in alignment with your views on AU, which has helped me preserve my only significant gains this year.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:23 - ID#401460)
e-mail to

Dear Gold,

By the close of the market tomorrow, I would appreciate your increasing your value to about the $300/oz. level.

I have some work I need to get done on my home, and your current price levels are preventing me from completing my remodeling.
Your net worth is severely affecting mine.

Enough of this fooling around let's get moving up where you belong ..... OK...ok

I am going to hit the sack now, but I will check on you in the morning.



(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:23 - ID#348129)
@Breaking Story
By Matt Drudge
Thu Aug 06 1998 20:42:07 ET



The WASHINGTON TIMES is set to release a blockbuster report that is bound to turn official Washington upside down and inside out.

U.N. Ambassador Bill Richardson, contrary to what he told Congress last month in sworn testimony, did not have a job opening on his staff when he offered to hire Monica Lewinsky in October, according to sources and documents obtained by the WASHINGTON TIMES.

Reporter Bill Sammon breaks hard with the exclusive, set to appear in Friday editions.

Richardson, who was recently confirmed as President Clinton's new Energy Secretary, "panicked when the scandal broke in January and scrambled to find a slot he could claim had existed long before he interviewed Lewinsky."

Sammon reveals: "Despite Mr. Richardson's repeated sworn assertions, he did not create the position until after Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr served him with a subpoena demanding all documents related to the job offer."

Starr is trying to determine whether the offer was aimed at distancing Lewinsky and keeping her quiet about her relationship with Clinton.

The TIMES quotes sources at the United Nations, State Department and Capitol Hill in the exhaustive report.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:23 - ID#207145)
Kitco is a Blast
I know I'm a pain in the ass to many of you, but I dearly love Kitco. I must say I like you all, and enjoy the banter mightily.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:28 - ID#57232)
a.j.: You mentioned disinformation. You overlook one thing -- the well educated person will not be fooled by disinformation. Hence what I am recommending -- a good solid education for everyone -- is not disinformation. But -- if the public is intentionally kept in the dark, uneducated, then disinformation will work, unfortunately.
By the way, the greatest threat to disinformation is the net itself. Thought about that? I know governments will try to regulate the net, and force its use for the benefit of the few. The very least they will do is try to tax the commerce of the net -- as that is part of their function.
I realize that the information revolution also gives governments the opportunity to gather knowledge about all of us -- and that is frightening, given the potential for control. But I do not think total information control is possible when you are on the net, without shutting the system down completely.
Welcome to the awakening - for at least a few of us.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:31 - ID#226299)
@the scene
Blooper -- If this country does not inflate its currency to some extent, it truly becomes toast! Liquidity IS its only salvation. Lest the Asian tidal wave breach the shore here, they MUST! But should they even do such now, I do not think we can get by unscathed. I think the liquidity will come when Japan, etc. repatriate at least a goodly share of their holdings of our paper. Also watch earnings report here. When they scream tooooo loudly, watchout dollar. In this fine wonderful one interdependent world, what goes around DOES come around!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:39 - ID#57232)
Inverted yield curve
blooper: You bring up an interesting point. Very often the yield curve is inverted because short term rates were raised to put the brakes on the economy. This case is different, because it is pretty much because long term rates have dropped.
Also, I'm pretty sure interest rates in Europe have been dropping for some time. ( someone please currect me if I am wrong ) . So does AG drop interest rates to weaken the dollar and risk inflating the market bubble some more? Or, does he think of some scheme to bring the markets down without changing rates, on the assumption that the dollar will follow the equjities markets? I think the latter.
No matter what, IMHO, if he fails to let the price of gold in US dollars rise pretty soon, further worldwide devaluations are likely elsewhere, such as China. Of course this will not affect China all that much, but it could be fatal to Japan.
The key question is - does he know how to drop the dollar without crashing the markets? I think I will stick to my day job.

PH in LA
(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:42 - ID#225408)
Soft balls and big numbers.
How was your softball game? Haven't heard whether you won or lost, although there was something about it on CNN...missed most of the report, though.

Still looking forward to your thoughts on the number 30K.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:43 - ID#252150)
Snowball@ KGC buying back their shares.
I would'nt put much faith in that news release. Many companies say that they are going to do a share repurchase, but never do. Corel comes to mind. They were going to do a share repurchase when the share price was around $12. They never did & now it's under 3. Although I made a good gain with KGC earlier this year, IMO, if the POG is under 300 6 months from now, they will be in serious trouble.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:44 - ID#226299)
@the scene
Blooper -- on the other hand, SHOULD the Fed deign not to inflate past our current pattern, then expect futher competitive devaluations and pain to continue around the world. This WILL also mean much lower gold prices! Perhaps even that much laughed at 196 number! Watch HOW things are handled!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:44 - ID#233199)
Looking for a reputable coin dealer in British Columbia
Any references out there?


(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:49 - ID#226299)
@the scene
WoW! Am I going to get the last posting on this particular scene of the evening?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:51 - ID#411259)
..... Bloops .....

I admit I am guilty
Of too many words
But I do love them so
Like a tike in a sandbox
Building castles
And digging tunnels
Strategic crossroads meeting
In a well turned phrase
Always trying to remember
To not let words just fall that way
But to place them there

Regarding typing:
Keep up your posts on this group, you typing will improve wonderfully. When I started posting hereabouts, typos and misspells were rampant. I still only have 8 fingers working, and I must look at the keyboard or I am lost. My goal in life is to really get those pinkies working. I am convinced that my best work may be hidden in those damn pinkies.


(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:53 - ID#57232)
$196 gold seems ludicrous
All: Anything below about $280/oz seems crazy to me. But we must accept the fact that the markets do what they will do, not what we want them to. Probably the strongest argument against $196 gold is that weprobably would not survive the world economic scenario that went with it. Someone mentioned this today. At this gold price the US dollar and the US economy might very well be the last one standing. But not for long. Hence, it will not just be the BIS ( IMHO ) that will do their best to prevent this from happening.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:54 - ID#335184)
Every night I say my Hale Hillerys for Ag & wonder why the commercial COTs are extremely bearish for your dream ! Am I dreaming or will Ag test it's recent lows before going vertical ?



(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:56 - ID#411259)
..... Eldo ....

No, I will be the last post.
All should turn their TV sets
To American Movie Classics ( AMC )
"How to Marry a Millionaire"
Is on as we speak
In its original wide screen format
The only format that does justice
To a close up of Marilyn Monroe


(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:56 - ID#226299)
@the scene
Oh Oh, got to get yet another one on before the HOUR!

RJ -- Typo away. Most people are fairly capable of reading past/thru them. I know typos are rather bogue, but it was my thought that we are dealing with facts, fiction, ideas and ideas vs. simply spelling. This be wrong?

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:56 - ID#218219)
The answer to the question of, "How many women does it take to satisfy
Bill Clinton's sexual appetite"..................................................................It takes a Village!!

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:58 - ID#226299)
@the scene
Perhaps I'll take a shot at it.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:59 - ID#226299)
@the scene
RJ -- Don't do it. It's my turn to be last at the scene for this episode.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:59 - ID#219363)
No me!
Hope I make it.

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:59 - ID#411259)
..... Eldo & RJ .....

Tossin' the bat
To see who's last
Grab, grab, grab
I think I got the top

Uh Huh

(Thu Aug 06 1998 23:59 - ID#57232)
G'Nite all!
Kapex: A Village? Wasn't that the name of a book Hillary wrote? Wonder what she thinks about your comment? Might be colorful to watch Bill duck the book.