Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:01 - ID#280222)
ORIS: I like your deerhunting analogy! I like it!

Bill Buckler
(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:02 - ID#256381)
Golden Bears or Golden Bull?
dirt ( where'd you get that moniker? - 22:58 ) Why aren't Asians, Aussies etc buying Gold. A number of reasons. A lot of people have bought the advertising and look on Gold as a one way ticket to the poorhouse. that's especially true here in OZ. In Asia, millions of people are flat out putting food on the table. Others need local currencies or Dollars to service debt. And then, there are those who cannot conceive of owning an "investment" that doesn't pay either interest or dividends.

Golden Cheesehead ( 22:14 ) It's true that Gold is still higher than it was in January. It's not true that a giant double bottom has been formed. Technically, the jury is still out on that one. I personally would not be confident that Gold has seen its lows until we are back above $US 300. And right now, we're closer to $US 278 than we are to $US 300.

One last thought. If you are letting your Gold analysis be coloured by your Gold stock holdings, I must warn you against this. The one cardinal rule for buying Gold stocks ( and I have seen very good presentations of this from NickC and others ) is this. NEVER buy a Gold stock without deciding on a price level that will prove you wrong. If, after you buy the stock, it descends to that level, sell the stock. I repeat - SELL THE STOCK! The grief that will save you in the long term in incalculable.

Please don't decide that Gold and/or Gold stocks must go up simply because you have bought some. That's a short route to the poorhouse.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:17 - ID#373284)
Silver, digital and photography...let it load...have at it lads...and a gulp to ya...

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:18 - ID#207145)
Oil has made matters worse for Mexico, and Venesuela. Do you think that the only investment to be in is either cash or bonds.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:27 - ID#434108)
in the fire & rain of December's Gold - now
fire & rain
no longer
blows cold

as gold's bottom
is told

our miss

of missing

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:27 - ID#373284)
aurator, Namaste' more on digital in case you missed it...

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:28 - ID#207145)
Both Mexico and Venesuela are highly dependant on oil, as is Russia. Do you think maybe a good investment for right now might be cash?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:32 - ID#207145)
Everyone is psychic where gold is involved
Yet no one is rich. How do you explain this?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:35 - ID#434108)
the majesty of mystery
has no explanation
other than:
"we're so spiritual, that...
we're no earthly good"

psychic says
as psychic does:


(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:39 - ID#207145)
Imparts knowledge to us lemmings. Do this, don't do that, cant you read the signs. These guys are short. Maybe they know something. Maybe not. I do set stops.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:42 - ID#207145)
I just get tired of people messin wid my mind. It's bad enough that i'm losin mulah.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:43 - ID#219363)
Interesting analysis of the $US

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:44 - ID#268404)
Thank you Bill Buckler
My question was pointed more toward the institutions, government and financial. ( dirt = down to earth )

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:44 - ID#434108)
the heart of gold
the heart of gold
is always beating

the heart of gold
is always here


with the power
of eternity

the heart of gold
is the art of gold

the beauty of the earth

tons of tundra
tundras of beauty

tundras tons
ton ton ton ton-szzzz...

the child laughs
and leaps into the wave
and back out again

and into
her father's loving arms

and he laughs
and she laughs

and eternity stops to laugh too
while gold shines

what else
is there

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:46 - ID#255284)
Bring on the Cuervettes......

grassyarse. Many thanx.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:49 - ID#434108)
blooper@ 00:42
if they're messin with your mind
who gave them permission to.....?

if your tired,

and be assured:

you are golden

and blessed

so - 'not to worry'
all is well

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:54 - ID#207145)
Gold is under the gun, where ya gonna go: cash? Maybe thats the place to be. I would never be hassled for being in cash. I havent got time for the pain. Ever notice Carly Simons mouth looks a lot like Mick Jagger's?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:57 - ID#257136)
Bill_Buckler - 00:02
That's a lesson I've learned the hard way ( down Cd$14.5k ) ! Too much emotion in my initial investment strategy ( what strategy? ) . I forgot the lessons other traders have learned and written about - RISK MANAGEMENT!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 00:58 - ID#207145)
Actually CASH sounds GOOD
Monday morning---"Mommas and Poppas"-- I shall go to cash wid the 10% that ain't already there.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 01:02 - ID#207145)
Bill Buckler to KITCO
Stop losing your ass. WELL that makes sense to me.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 01:08 - ID#207145)
Gold is saying Depression
Maybe not saying, but hinting. Either gold goes up or we all come down. You know, like selling pencils on the street. These are dangerous times. Whats the Prez going to brag about?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 01:16 - ID#255284)
click click
the site is a Goldmine on digital photography, has Everything I was looking for!!

John Disney__A
(Sat Aug 08 1998 01:21 - ID#24135)
the deerhunter ..
Hello Brother Oris
Enjoyed Deer hunting stuff. I went hunting near
Canada border once for physical Deer. First time I
experienced VIRTUAL deer. It must have been computer
generated. Holograms maybe were involved. It looked
like a deer and moved like a deer .. but it was not
Later I met physical Bear in standoff situation.
Also noticed alcohol is even better in woods.. Maybe
because you are freezing ..
Please see Bucklers 22:05 .. very wise and
thoughtful post.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 01:34 - ID#190411)
Hey Blooper, Bill buckler is Gollum.
Gee Mr. Buckler, I surely should have heeded the advise that you download to me every second saturday.
so, dopes as me who bought a bit of a company that has something to do with gold will lose plenty.
I don't recollect that advice prior to today.
Paper is a burnin' tonight in the far east. 'stralin dollar at sixty cents. NZ at what?
Canada in the lurch. Usd the last wrestler in the fixed match.
so lads, we'll wait for Mr. Buckler to give the command to commence.,
The central gommint's days are numbered.
It's just the subjects of the ex-british empire that wail about the state that they are in because of their voting patterns.
You vote to expropriate the bit that someone else might have, and you consign yourselves to the tyranny of your "representatives".
I am chastised, I could have bought cheaper later. If I had only realised that the Usd is immune from currency attack.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 01:35 - ID#219363)
Currency graphs
Just what I had been looking for.

I had heard from various places that the $US was soaring high and had gotten the mistaken impression that it was super-inflated above everything else in the world. Well, it's not. Plenty of other currencies have been keeping pace just fine with the $US. Below are some URL's for two interfaces that let you make graphs of currency-A vs currency-B. The first URL only lets you do a few currencies as a base, the other one lets you plot basically any currency. The first one also has some interesting pre-prepared graphs that show what the asian currencies are doing against the $CA and the $US, and another set lets you see graphs of $US against NAFTA nations, etc. Neat'o stuff.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 02:24 - ID#207145)
I am tired of paper
It will be proven that paper sux so bad, no one will ever want to own it again. Especially when they lose most all their money.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 02:27 - ID#207145)
Thanks, they do favor each other, come to think of it.. They've both got dogs name Ben.They're both in cash. I think 1 is short gold.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 02:31 - ID#316193)
Pat Buchanan Gives President Clinton Advice - I Hope Bill Reads This and Squirms

(Sat Aug 08 1998 02:38 - ID#345119)
Aussie tax time again!
Due to take another trip to the accountants whereupon I will be chastised and berated for not "doing the best I can for my future". My accountant's advice - lots of debt and negative gearing.

Dare not say I buy gold. 'lest I be branded a lunatic as well!

I hope I will not be an old man before I can say I told you so. My accountant will likely be dead.

:- (

(Sat Aug 08 1998 02:44 - ID#207145)
I can hear Clinton now
Ya'll are sellin pencils in the street, isn't that great. Isn't this economy great!!!!Eatin high on the dumpster aren't ya! See I told ya this economy is great.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 02:50 - ID#207145)
Clinton's luck running out
Things won't look so cheery this time next year. Benito Mussolini had a dam good cover de Teflon, just before his most inauspicious demise.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 02:51 - ID#316193)
More on What Mr. Bill Has to Worry About

(Sat Aug 08 1998 02:54 - ID#207145)
Goodnight Erle, Diz, Bill, Gollum
God bless you all, as you are fine people. Later on bros. Night.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 03:19 - ID#255284)
Let's start with a little (midnight) Nash Rambler

Love is a word that is constantly heard,
Hate is a word that is not.
Love, I am told, is more precious than gold.
Love, I have read, is hot.
But hate is the verb that to me is superb,
And Love but a drug on the mart.
Any kiddie in school can love like a fool,
But Hating, my boy, is an Art.

-- Ogden Nash


(Sat Aug 08 1998 03:23 - ID#255284)
I said, let's talk about the midnight rambler....

Gold, n.:
A soft malleable metal relatively scarce in distribution. It
is mined deep in the earth by poor men who then give it to rich men who
immediately bury it back in the earth in great prisons, although gold
hasn't done anything to them.
-- Mike Harding, "The Armchair Anarchist's Almanac"


(Sat Aug 08 1998 03:29 - ID#255284)
Stridin across the flood-lit stage, lips a-puckered, silk scarf a-waving Lets talk about the mid-,

One of Vronsky's favourites:

Gold has worked down from Alexander's time ... When something holds good for two thousand years I do not believe it can be so because of prejudice or mistaken theory. --Bernard M. Baruch


(Sat Aug 08 1998 03:43 - ID#250121)
A quick change of clothes a downshift in mood...Yes, I think the audience is ready...
And now, through the miracle of science and advanced programming, we can bring you a blast from the past, a goldie oldie, or perhaps a gold beagle, from the annals of kitco----Yes its Lucky Strike ( and the Nuggets ) recorded live at kitco Sat Oct 25 1997 12:12. Click on this: _@_?_@ to download the midi recording


Another smash hit from our forthcoming album ( To the tune of Londonderry Air ) :

Oh, Danny Boy, the gold, the gold is calling,
It says, "Buy Now! It's never been this low!",
And so I buy, and sure enough, come morning,
The price has fallen ten more bucks or so.
Oh come ye back, ye fickle gold investors,
Buy now, and put the gleam back in my eye,
Or I'll sit here, atop this pile of yellow,
Useless metal, till the day I die.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 03:55 - ID#199190)
Grizz here
I notice that many posts are missing the author's handle.
Used to be just the first post that one made.
Now it seems almost every other one.
Great for being anonymous!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 04:01 - ID#424394)
Grizz here
I duplicate my handle in the subject line - just in case.
More importantly,
Jujube sunk back into nether nether land after that brief rally.
He is acting like Silver and, to a lesser extent, Gold.
That is another reason we all better root for his health
- His health may be supernaturally in sympathy with Gold & Silver.

Physically he seems to be hanging in there.

We haven't heard a peep from them varmints.
But getting all these defenses in place was good practice.
When the Y2K refugees try coming up here we'll be ready for 'em.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 04:03 - ID#240288)
G'day Kitco Denizens

Got a few days off. I have a few bucks that I'd like to risk. Planning to pick about 5 to 10 stocks, and buy late 1999 LEAP puts on them. Looking to make the purchases next week. Would like any Kitco ideas. Some of my candidates are Microsoft, Lucent, Bank of America, Boeing, and FedEx. Will announce the purchases as they are made. Your THOUGHTS appreciated!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 04:17 - ID#250121)
Welcome! I'm taking a trip down the golden road ( to unlimited devotion ) courtesy of the dead, care to take in the air?


-"Financial genius is a rising stock market" - Galbraith -

"Never confuse a bull market and brains" - Wall Street Axiom

-"Bull markets are born on pessimism, grow on skepticism, mature on optimism and die on euphoria" - Sir John Templeton

-"Psychology can turn overnight like a key in a lock. Click - the party's over." - a New York broker on the eve of the 1969 bear market

"Those who trade a little freedom for a little security soon shall have neither" Benjamin Franklin


(Sat Aug 08 1998 04:24 - ID#250121)
I'm just ANOTHER deadhead........

Can yar hear them? Wafting over the bay? I think it's Lucky Strike and the Golden Nuggets again. Yes definately:

Date: Sat Oct 25 1997 13:46 Lucky Strike ( and the Nuggets ) ID#320158: From Side 2 of our new album ( To the tune of "Pearly Shells" ) :

Golden coins, In my bank vault,
Lots of lovely gold, Covering the floor,
When I see them,
My heart sinks just like a stone,
To know they've made me oh so poor !

they don't make em like that no more.

Friend of the devil is a friend of mine...

(Sat Aug 08 1998 04:25 - ID#250121)
What happened to you last week auric?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 04:28 - ID#280214)
A case for a monetary standard which is independent of national politics
I agree with Bill2Js 19:49 last evening regarding the supply of Gold.
Considering its nonmonetary use and the large CB stocks, we have ten years supply stockpiled. {We will wish we had that much grain stockpiled}.
Given Y2K doesnt derail the conversion to cybermoney, Gold may be a quaint antique relic - as far as its use as money is concerned. In a world which increasingly relies on electronic transfers of huge amounts of capital in the blink of an eye - tonnes of physical money are a drag.
Physical Gold stockpiles will continue to be valued only for their value in case of worldwide financial & monetary collapse where cyber & fiat money evaporate. But even that scenario may not come to pass if a worldwide currency arises which is independent of any national backing.

In essense, any money is only as good as peoples faith in its usefulness for trade and as a store of value. We have berated fiat money here because of its vulnerability to a loss of such faith. Well folks, Gold has not been doing well in the faith department either. And if the ease, convenience, and security of cybermoney both in use {at your local store or across the Net} and as a store of value {in the chip embedded in your right hand} leads to a world standard greater than and independent of national vagaries then the faith in Gold will further erode as its price descends to industrial usage values.

Is it too great a leap in vision to conceive of a monetary standard which is NOT tied to any national government at all - but rather tied to the overall world economy through little bits and bytes in everyones cyberpurse?

Maybe the transnational corporations will mint a version of cybermoney or hijack a present currency and remove it from the vagaries of national politics. I can see these business interests getting fed up with unstable currencies and getting together to supercede them.

Chas, Aurator, Tolerant1, et al - perhaps the latter case is a small opening for a Gold coin which is independent of national politics. A physical version of such a cyberstandard may fill a useful niche for those people {folks raised prior to ubiquitous computers} who are not yet comfortable with the security of digital money.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 04:40 - ID#272206)
Spock, Gold may not need advertising after all
Every time I decide to dump my gold stocks, I think about the six people that control the world Gold price in dollar terms. These would be the German, Swiss, French, Italian, and Dutch central bankers who set policy in the largest European Gold lending countries, and the one rich speculator who would like to make all of our dreams come true. Heavyweight speculators think nothing of trashing any number of Asian currencies to move the market in their direction, so there must be several that have thought about Gold ( Mr. Goldfinger shall we say? ) . We kitcoites know that there is a firm agreement among the lending countries to keep lending rates low so as to prevent the POG from moving past a fixed point, now around $300 USD. But it would only take two or three lenders to suspend their Gold leases for a few weeks in order to nudge the lending rate up by 300%. This happened in December of 1996. The bankers that control the lease rates could give some excuse, like "squaring the books for an EC audit" and pull off this coup. This would enable our Mr. Goldfinger to step up his buying in one magnificent attempt to break the gold lease strangle-hold. If gold popped over $340 we would probably see him cash in and the game would end. But it would provide us with a nice diversion after the Monica show.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 04:44 - ID#250121)
A gold hoard is NOT SUPPLY any more than there are enough N weapons.......
this business of there being X years of supply of gold from CB sell-downs when you compute CG holdings and net mining shortfall to cover demand. One must ask an important question. Which would be the LAST CB to sell gold?

It is rather like disarmanent. Which individuals in your society would be the last to give up their guns. Who are you gonna watch if you give up your guns? Or, on a country scale. Which will be the first nuclear weapon state to GIVE UP weapons? Which would be the last.

AMigos. NOONE trusts their neighbours. Not individuals, not countries. Noone will let "ANOTHER" be the last to hold N Weapons or gold. It's not going to happen.

besides there is a whole lot more than the 30,000 tonnes in CB Gobmint hands. Even Lebanon. Who has the weak hands? Is it the CBs?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 04:54 - ID#250121)
rambling rose
yes, there is a long precedent for your idea of company mintings. The Dutch East India Company gold tokens spring readily to mind. I have seen a link somewhere for one of these.

Have you got a pic of one in your gold coin archive?

Oh boy! I'se gettin a degree in digital photography at the NY Institute of Photography...Is that noble institute resident on the island of length indeterminate? The same town whence Sheller has promised a New York steak? Having no experience of New York, it is still in the realm of myth and legend to the clan aurator. One day I hope to discover New York. I raise my ( plastic ) glass to you! Good Health!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 04:58 - ID#255151)
aurator--Was mostly at work the last week or so.

A walk down Golden Lane sounds like a CAPITAL idea!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 05:11 - ID#230376)
Waxing fill-o-sofik....

Gooday from the chilly Midwest ! Ah, there's nothing better for tired eyes than the golden oldies from auracious........ unless it's the puns of the day from economistics.

Auric ( Hi, guy ) leap puts in any non y2k complient co. should do very well .........satellite cos. Irridium Motorola etc.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 05:11 - ID#250121)

Let us promenade the golden pathways of our golden days and kick around the golden leaves of our progenitors:

Like liberty, gold never stays where it is undervalued. - JS Morril Speech to US Senate 25 Jan 1878

Gold were as good as twenty orators. Shakespeare, Richard III iv, 3, 38 ( 1592 )

Where gold speaks, every tongue is silent. Torriano Piazza Universale ( 1666 )

Gold dust blinds all eyes. Cheales Proverbial folklore ( 1875 )

When we have gold we are in fear, we we have none we are in danger. John Ray English proverbs p 12 ( 1670 )

Though wisdom cannot be gotten for gold, still less can be gotten without it.. Samuel Butler Notebooks

(Sat Aug 08 1998 05:24 - ID#230376)
Oo-one wants to play.......booohoo


(Sat Aug 08 1998 05:25 - ID#250121)
Good morning, Surely it's not chilly in the middle of summer? We've had a cloudless and, naturally, smogless 16C midwinter's day in paradise...

Got lightbulbs?

How many stock brokers does it take to change a light bulb?

2.Two. One to take out the bulb and drop it, and the other to try and sell it before it crashes ( knowing that it's already burned out ) .
3.24 1/8, but that's down 3/8 from yesterday.

How many bankers does it take to change a light bulb?

1.Four - One to hold the bulb and three to try to remember the combination. ( left a bit, right a bit, left a bit... )
2.None, bankers don't change light bulbs.
3.Ever notice that the electronic bank signs are full of burned-out light bulbs?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 05:27 - ID#255151)

G'day from the DANK midwest! How about this weather, eh. Motorola is a good candidate. Heavily traded, a high flyer, and ripe for a fall. Will give this a serious look. Also, some defense stocks, heavily dependent on US government contracts, might be worth considering.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 05:28 - ID#93241)
Y2K notes
A couple of sites worth noting. The first having to do with insurance coverage vis-a-vis Year 2000 problems and the second being the securities industry's spin on their recent tests.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 05:56 - ID#250121)

ANOTHER great merkan poet/songwriter. I hope y'all know Ray Willie Hubbard

The Dust of the Chase

I come down from Oklahoma with a pistol in my boot
A pair of dice, a deck of cards and a bible in my suit
I come here as the cause of tears, I am a crying shame
Seven stud or eternal blood, just looking for a game

I double cross the state of Texas and they gave me a little time
I taught myself to doublecut the cards and hold scriptures in my mind
I learned to love the tumbling dice and to believe the word
Tombstones or rolling bones, beats anything Ive ever heard.

Patience is a virtue that I dont possess
And I cant deny that heaven lies beneath a cotton dress
How small a part of time we share till we hear the sound of wings
I am lost in the dust of the chase that my life brings



I have just finished watching John Ford directing Henry Fonda in Steinebeck's Grapes of Wrath. So true to the book that I re-read a few years ago when I had my radio show. I did a special on the Dust Bowl, the depression, using exerpts from the book as hooks into the music both of and about the depression.

I shall be there....

Advanced Fetch!!! ha ha ha ha..

Gonna give the dog a bone tonight is not vulgar down under, except to me..

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:10 - ID#347267)
Good Morning!
Thanks Bill Buckler for the clarity. Thats what I was trying to get across in my Friday Night Sermon. We are Bottoming. But only if the January lows are not taken out, and the worry is that some individual issues and funds have done so. I also like the fact that volume has dried up. I also like the idea of a huge double botton being formed between January and now ( Sir Cheesehead! ) I also like the oils starting to move ( I believe oil and gold are linked ( heard that ANOTHER time ) . So --- PATIENCE!!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:12 - ID#255151)

Now here is a fat pig waiting to be butchered--

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:12 - ID#347267)
Gold Advertising
I am sure RJ is responsible!!! I caught a MONEX ad on CNN last evening, complete with beautiful shiny GOLD coins!!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:19 - ID#280214)
Sorry about the blasphemous, devil's advocate, opinion to follow
Rhody, in your 20:11 rebuttal last evening to Bill2J's 19:49 you assume cheap Gold equals a bottomless depression. Not necessarily. LEAD's price plummeted when its use in motor fuel was basically eliminated. Gold will suffer the same fate when its use in money is basically eliminated. If nobody uses Gold except for industrial, dental and jewelry uses then its price could drop down to where Silver is today. Silver will suffer a similar drop when {not if} digital photography replaces all but professional film usage.
Today's average costs of production for Gold and Silver are not a factor if demand drops so far that the lowest cost mines can produce enough Gold & Silver {likely as byproducts of base metal production} to meet the lower demand. High cost mines will close - as they always have. Ore bodies can wait indefinitely for better technology - such as hoards of nanobots collecting PMs like bees collect pollen {coming sooner than you think}.

AURATOR - your 04:44 premise of no CB wanting to be the last to disarm
relies on the assumption that Gold is still a adequate armament. Bows & arrows were supplanted by firearms and, for major warfare, firearms have been supplanted by airpower, missiles, and nukes. As the CBs and governments develop a more powerful and effective "money" such as the cybermoney in the form of smartcards and digital transactions from the keyboard you are using then Gold will go the way of spears and clubs.

I do not discount a future use of Gold & Silver as money. We may very soon return to a civilization equivalent to spears and clubs {or at least back to rifles, handguns and Silver when the smartmissiles and smartcards succumb to Y2K}.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:23 - ID#26793)
Flood waters continue to rise in China; industrial cities in jeopardy.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:26 - ID#26793)
Massive cash inflows into Austria may be from Suharto.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:28 - ID#386245)
My Kitco mates
1 ) Take a steel rod about 2 1/2 feet long
2 ) Place vertically on your computer chair
3 ) Stand on your chair
4 ) Sit down

Now stop your whining. You own the most secure long-term investment in history. You are at,or very close to, one of the best buying points in history.

5 ) Smile.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:33 - ID#250121)
let a hundred flowers bloom and a thousand thoughts contend......
I seem to recall a year or two ago the chinese gobmint decided to re-route a major river or two to provide hydroelectric power to the developing south Szechuan ( ? ) The gobmint cared not one fig for the peopole whose lives were threatened by this high-handedness. No, the chinese gobmint is comprised an unfeeling gerontocracy, uncaring for the average chan.

May I suggest adding "Life and Death in Shanghai" to a well-rounded library?

Trust no gobmint may be the true chant of the goldbug.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:40 - ID#250121)

I said to BJ last night how unimaginable it is, looking at the broad picture, that we ordinary schmucks can afford to buy precious metals. clink clink. Of course my 2kg silver bars dont match up well beside the coveted 400 oz Au wrist-breaker, but think of the arduous task of mining my precious.

D'ya fancy a visitor for a couple of days? Like limey, we got flyer points to spend.....

Did those carrier pigeons get ate?


(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:43 - ID#423340)

(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:46 - ID#250121)

no, not an armament, but a defence. Gold is a defence. Perhaps the last shield in a money war. What CB would rid itself of its last defence?

What CB would be the first to divest itself of defence capabilities? The vultures are circling.


(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:48 - ID#386245)
G'day Auracious
Fine form tonight, mate. You even had me singing. I had one of THOSE days. Radio show? Now we know the origin of your moniker.

Our northern brethren are too shell-shocked to come out of their caves. Their country is under assault. Their financial well-being ( gold ) is under assault. On both scores they will show heaps of 'spine'. I know. I know.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:50 - ID#280214)
Do any of you remember transfer lettering from Chartpak?
I still sell a few sheets to the few people who still use the stuff. Most everyone now have gone to computer graphics. The same fate has befallen templates, french curves, triangles, graph paper and triangular scales. My wholesaler can have a half-price sale on these things and I can pass that along with even steeper discounts. But the stuff won't sell any faster. Cybergraphics have pretty much supplanted the old physical techniques. Those who need it still need it, but the vast majority of those who used to use the stuff won't buy it even at 10 cents on the dollar - because they don't need it anymore.
The same fate may befall Gold as it is supplanted by cybermoney created by keyboard transactions.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:54 - ID#280214)
So the CBs hang on to their leather shields
As the battlefield converts to M1s and 30-06 rounds.
Try selling quivers of arrows to a modern army.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 06:56 - ID#280214)
My private stockpile
Is far richer in boxes of 30-06 and 7.62 than it is in Gold or Silver.
To the tune of 1000 to 1.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:02 - ID#280214)
I do not discount Gold & Silver as money come doomsday
Given that everything falls apart - I may need Gold & Silver.
Just as I may need a .38.
But I figure I can buy more later this year and much lower prices.
In the meantime - we have a gunshow in this little town this weekend.
I will be shopping for a .38 or .357
The prices of THAT asset will go nowhere but up - a lot!
Of that I am very, very, very sure.
Unlike Gold and Silver which seem to be going nowhere but down!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:08 - ID#280214)
Enough of the negative waves
I look forward to having a table at the local gunshow next year
Where I can sell boxes of 10-grain Gold coins & Silver Eagles
{if Klinton doesn't outlaw such uncontrolled gun & bullion sales}

Steve in TO__A
(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:08 - ID#287337)
Bye-bye Hong Kong?
Asian Currencies Under Attack

TOKYO - Speculators are intensifying their attacks on Asian currencies in the
face of worsening economic news from China and Hong Kong and skepticism
over Japan's efforts to stimulate its economy.

Increasing pressure to force the devaluation of the Hong Kong dollar and the
Chinese yuan [renminbi] contributed to the weakening of the yen and
currencies across the region, traders said Friday. Vietnam devalued its
currency, the dong, by 7 percent.

Some economists fear that currency devaluations by China and Hong Kong
could trigger a new round of competitive devaluations by other Asian nations,
bringing about a dramatic worsening of the economic crisis in a region already
facing a serious recession and severe unemployment.

Hong Kong's chief executive, Tung Chee-hwa, warned speculators Friday that
the government was ''totally able and determined'' to keep its currency pegged
to the U.S. dollar, according to Reuters. The Hong Kong Monetary Authority
acknowledged it sold U.S. dollars this week, although it insisted the action was
not intervention, but rather aimed at obtaining money for funding the
government budget.

''The attacks have intensified this week,'' said Adam Levinson, head of trading
for Goldman Sachs International Bank in Tokyo. He estimates that the Hong
Kong Monetary Authority spent about $5 billion or more this week to protect
the peg. ''Asia's in play again,'' he said.

Traders said a number of factors have converged to create a new erosion of
confidence in Asia. In Hong Kong, the high interest rates needed to protect the
currency have hit profits and sent the economy, the stock market and real
estate values sliding. But Hong Kong authorities say keeping the peg to the
dollar has protected Hong Kong from the more volatile currency movements
that have hurt banks and businesses in other Asian countries.

Meanwhile, private growth estimates for China have been growing more
pessimistic, as evidence emerges that Asia's recession has hit China harder
than originally estimated. More recently, it appears that the massive flooding,
which has caused thousands of deaths and millions of homeless in China, will
have a ''significant impact'' on economic growth, Mr. Levinson said. He said
some economists estimated it could knock 1 or 2 percentage points from the
gross domestic product figures.

These factors helped push the dollar's black-market exchange rates in China
above 9.0 yuan Friday, compared with the official rate of 8.28 yuan, increasing
devaluation pressures.

China's central bank Friday denied reports that spread through Tokyo that the
bank's governor, Dai Xianglong, had suggested the Chinese yuan might be

But growing skepticism has led some major investment banks and U.S.-based
hedge funds to launch massive attacks on the Hong Kong dollar this week, and
the activity is not expected to abate soon because the fundamentals underlying
the attacks are not expected to improve, according to traders.

As a result, the Hong Kong's Hang Seng index ended 3.25 percent lower, at
7,018.41, its lowest level in more than three years. Exactly one year ago, it
peaked at 16,820.31 points.

Hope also is fading that Japan will be able to revive its economy fast enough to
halt the region's slide. A major speech Friday by Prime Minister Keizo Obuchi
of Japan failed to reveal any more details about the government's reform plans.

Japanese officials continue to indicate a reluctance to force banks to get rid of
their massive pile of bad debts.

Remarks by Hiroshi Okuda, president of Toyota, this week added to the

''There is a possibility of Japan triggering a worldwide financial crisis, such as a
steep stock market plunge involving Europe and the U.S.,'' Mr. Okuda said
Thursday at a conference of Japan's Employer's Federation, according to a
published report. To avoid that, he said, solving the bad loan problems ''is an
urgent task.''

The dollar traded at 145.540 yen in Tokyo, and was quoted late in New York at
146.225, up from a close Thursday of 144.275 yen.

''The market is putting pressure on Japan'' to quickly tackle financial reforms,
said Minoru Matsuda, a currency trader at Citibank. With foreign investor
confidence fleeing Asia, ''the next few weeks are crucial,'' Mr. Matsuda said.

Some companies, however, are already preparing for China's devaluation of the
yuan, according to Bloomberg News. When executives at S.K. Corp., South
Korea's largest oil refiner, heard China might devalue its currency, it sold won -
the world's best performing currency this year - and bought $10 million.

International Herald Tribune, August 7, 1998

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:14 - ID#411440)
@ aurator re your 04:44: I agree with your opinion re. supply
of CB gold to the market. CB gold will not be available. Your
analogy of gold as financial nuclear weapons in apt.

Gold on the spot market is an artificial $288, but in the vaults
of the CBs it is priceless. It is unavailable at any price to
the open market. Those CBs who have actually sold gold to the
spot market have done so under orders as in Canada, Australia, and
Argentina as members of the American hegemony. These states have
sold gold because the American central govt won't ( or can't because
to do so requires permission of Congress. ) IMHO, these states are
all puppet states of the American Empire.

Until the EURO is finally introduced in early 1999, the CBs of
the EU will follow the American policy of depressing the POG using
leasing of gold, since the near time goal is the same. Sometime in
early 1999, European CBs will stop leasing gold, or arbitrarily raise
lease rates. This turns off the gold carry, and gold will finally
begin to act like a substance in desparate short supply.

We must hang on till then, and purchase while we still can. If all
of the above is untrue, then the POG is telling us that the world
economy is going into the deepest black hole this world has
ever seen.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:18 - ID#255151)
Nick of C @ 06:28

Heh heh, we'll see Kitco stiffen up in no time when stocks crash or bank runs start or some other similar, warm hearted event takes place! Ya got any ideas for some fat Dow sheep to be fleeced?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:19 - ID#39862)
Put on a "happy" face..................

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:20 - ID#432157)
To All

Good article in G & M this AM about Clinton and Ken Star .Main point is the OFFICE of The Presidency is under attack and may never recover .In the LONG RUN this will HURT us ALL ( IMO ) .Will it ever END. IN GOD WE TRUST ,we sure need his help .

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:22 - ID#423340)
Patience Finally Paid Off
Have lurked this site for past year enlightened,irritated,and amused by diversity of viewpoints. Agree with recent posters staying power critical for physical and/or stocks at this juncture.My first venture into PM as young engineer was sorting out 90% silver from bags obtained local banks 1995-96 until Gresham's law made it not worth trouble.Then bought bags outright @ 5% premium-----ended up holding 7 bags silver---sat on it 14 yrs.until one day each bag was worth 35k!Traded for gold coins near peak which still own.Far better to have thrown a dart at WSJ mutual fund page.Moral--these things take a VERY long time to work out--plus need to sell and reinvest right. As to when favorable fundamentals for PM's will again manifest themselves it is UNKNOWABLE! There are too many players with different agendas in this game to try to put any timeframe on when gold will make its inevitable explosive breakout.Hang in there fellow Kitcoites!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:24 - ID#255151)
Vietnamese Currency Sliding

Just read that one US$=14,000 Vietnamese Dongs.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:26 - ID#280214)
you guys can not conceive of the possibility the Gold is no longer money
It isn't and hasn't been for those of us in day to day trading.
My checking account balance - in digits on an AS400's hard drive
and the green stuff in my cash drawer and my credit cards are
far more useful to me than Gold or Silver.
The only thing Gold and Silver are good for now are vehicles for financial trades. As "investments" they pale to other vehicles.

Rhody - I agree that the world economy may be heading for a crash.
And my pile of beans, guns and peanutbutter will be worth far more
than a pile of Gold or Silver coins.

In a documumentary about the Korean famine I saw a little girl picking grains of rice off the ground - one by one. If there is grain to buy and sellers willing to take Gold then yes, Gold will have value. But I would rather have the grain - and a .38 to defend it with.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:28 - ID#423340)
Correction Previous Post
Make that circa 1965-66 not 1995-96.Thank You.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:36 - ID#280214)
If there is famine in America
I will not hold my breath for any nation to send us bags of grain
like we send other nations when they have famine.
We 'Merkans are quick to help others when they need help.
Our Gold will be worthless because the others will let us starve.
Call me isolationist!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:45 - ID#286230)
Clinton's tawdry scandal diminishes the Presidency

"If Clinton's crime proves to be he has broken the Eleventh Commandment -- Thou Shalt Not
Get Found Out -- it will have been in circumstances so shaming that though he may survive in
office, the rest of his presidency can only be a miserable, broken-backed affair and the notion
of the U.S. as "the indispensable nation" and "the last best hope of earth" reduced to a dirty
joke about a stained dress, told in a smokey taproom."

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:49 - ID#386245)
G'day Auric
The natural tendency is to fleece the sheep that have grown the most wool. BIG MISTAKE!!!!!!! The shares that have gone up the most are likely to keep on going or fall the least!! This is not 4-beer thinking ( although the quantity is correct ) . Statistical studies have shown that if you know absolutely nothing about the markets and only buy the 3 best performers from the previous year,you will do best in bull and lose least in bear.

Buy the shares that have NOT gone up with the bull. There is a REASON they have not gone up!!!!!!!! They will crash the hardest.

As usual it is your moolah, and your a.., err buns, that will get toasted.
We will watch this bear market together, yes?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:51 - ID#28994)
The United States, being of such a large land mass, and many different climatic zones, it is highly unlikely that the United States could experience a complete famine at any one time. This year for example, there are certain areas of the country where certain crops are disaster while others are looking at record yields. Complete famines usually occur in smaller countries with no diverse agriculture.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:53 - ID#255151)
IGNATIUS @ 07:22

Enjoyed your post. If my memory of POG and POS is correct, you bought Silver near $2.50 and sold near $40.00. You then bought Gold near $800 and are holding at $300. That means you are sitting on about 6 to 1 gains in US$ terms. Plus, you have kept the rock solid insurance that only Gold and Silver can give. Not bad. Not bad at all.

Mr. Mick
(Sat Aug 08 1998 07:58 - ID#345321)
Squirrel - the girl in Korea picked up the rice after her govt. confiscated all the
gold. Also, if all CBs divest themselves of gold, then why would anyone want their worthless paper? Their paper only has "value" because it is connected to gold.
As you said, if gold becomes worthless then only beans and bread will have value ( and the means to defend them ) .

(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:03 - ID#280214)
skinny - yes, if all of the USofA falls to famine
Then the whole world will likely be in dire straits as well.
There won't be any bread on the grocer's shelves anywhere
and no ships full of grain docking in foreign ports.
We will be left to fend for ourselves as individuals,
families {though even those broke apart in the Depression )
and small communities ( in the rare places where they exist}.
Our survival may depend on picking grains from the dirt and
tidbits from garbage cans. Anyone offering to buy my food
for a bit of Gold may be turned away or, if they persist, shot.

Guess I am in a rare foul mood this morning.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:04 - ID#317193)
Brother oris...we watch together for the deer....
Funny how I need to be reminded of things sometimes.


(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:10 - ID#280214)
Mr. Mick
As long as the paper still buys stuff, it is not worthless.
Money is "faith". It matters not whether there is Gold behind it or not.
Fort Knox could be empty for all we know.
As long as people "believe" then the paper retains its value.
If the CBs and others manage to hammer out people's faith in Gold
{and they have been doing a pretty good job at it}
then it will be worth less the stuff in my cash drawer.
{and my cash drawer has no Gold or Silver in it because
Gold and Silver have long since been removed from our money}
Even the green stuff doesn't matter much when I want to order
some Gold coins. I can only buy Gold with digits in a checking account.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:12 - ID#280214)
And I will have "deer" for dinner
When meat is no longer available in grocery stores.

Mr. Mick
(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:13 - ID#345321)
Squirrel, when gold goes to $0, please back a truckfull up to my house........
I'm sure someone in the world would be willing to trade with me. : )

(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:14 - ID#427357)

One of the few analysts who has correctly called the BEAR MARKET is Clif Droke. He is basically a technical analyst who relies heavily upon the interpretation of the Elliott Wave and Ganns theories.

Like the scalpel in the hands of 999,999 men is just another implement for butchering meat. BUT, in the deft trained hand of a skilled practitioner it becomes a surgical instrument of cure. Similarly I consider the ELLIOTT WAVE & GANNS theories. Testament to analyst's deft use of the two theories is his recent precise call on the 'paper' markets.

His last comment is indeed raising eyebrows, " Keep your eyes firmly on the White House. It, along with the U.S. stock market, is due for a massive shakeout very soon."

His observations regarding the puny attempts to rally are contained in his recent recent at the following URL - it's necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before posting it to the Internet:

Mr. Mick
(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:18 - ID#345321)
Squirrel, you said.............
As long as people "believe" then the paper retains its value.
My reply is that people only see "value" in money because of its connection to gold and silver, which historically were precursors to paper mediums of exchange. If paper, or e-digits are removed from gold and silver, and people have a conscious or sub-conscious preference to gold and silver, then PMs will be used as a common form of exchange.
If a common form of exchange is not used, we are back to bartering.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:25 - ID#280214)
Mr. Mick
There will always be someone willing to trade a pile of this
for some of that. The question is what the exchange rate will be.
In a worst case scenario where cans of beans are survival items,
Each can may sell for one 10-grain Gold coin.
And then only if I have cans to spare and have confidence I can
find someone who will accept the Gold in exchange for more food.
At current price of 2 for a dollar,
the Gold then would have a present value of $48/ounce.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:32 - ID#280214)
Mr. Mick - money is worth what it will buy.
I think shoppers out at the grocery store are not equating the folding stuff in their wallet or the value of their credit limit with how much Gold or Silver it is equivalent to. They regard their "money" only as a means to buy hamburger, cigarettes, ice cream and tomatoes. What Gold and Silver are trading for today or tomorrow are is as far removed from their minds as what ginseng is trading for in the far east.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:36 - ID#29048)
Von Finck and Homestake
German investor August von Finck purchased 3,865,100 shares from July 16 to 31 at $10.32-$11.21 each, increasing his holdings to 26,889,400 shares ( 12.7% ) .

Mr. Mick
(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:37 - ID#345321)
Squirrel, sorry, but I'm not a great mathemetician, but I understand your
basic premise ( I think ) . But at least it is recognized that gold and silver have traditionally been used to buy "stuff", which was my point about paper money, etc.
Ultimately any form of exchange only buys the human necessities, and as you said, the details are in the rates of exchange ( so many cans of beans for so many whatever ) .
Isn't this leading us to the conclusion that being a food "producer" on some level or other is more valuable than having gold or e-digits? Therefore airable LAND is the ultimate commodity???? What do you think?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:38 - ID#280214)
If the devil suddenly converted all the Gold to lead
Most folks couldn't care less - as long as the currency they have in the pockets or the cyberdigits in their credit account are still good for buying hotdogs and ketchup.

Well, they would care about their jewelry and family heirlooms
as would those rare rich folk about their Gold dental fillings.

Think Long & Hard On This
(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:38 - ID#359307)
Imagine a country which operates a gold-backed currency,
let us call it, say, Bisdonia. Like Switzerland, its
gold backing helps to give its currency high value.
Its currency ( converted to dollars for calculation )
can be exchanged at the rate of $280 for 1oz of gold;
its bank values its currency at the equivalent
of $280 per ounce for a certain accounting purpose.
One day the price of gold on the international market
falls to $260. The bank buys up a large quantity of
gold, resulting in a market rise to $280. To simplify,
we will assume that the average price was $270. But
the country still values its currency at $280. It
now has more gold valued at $280, therefore it has
acquired that gold for a profit of $10 per ounce.
What is more, its currency is now more gold-backed.
"Exemplary, gentlemen!" says the bank chief at the
weekly operations review meeting. "The world
has seen fit to give us free money!"

Mr. Mick
(Sat Aug 08 1998 08:50 - ID#345321)
Think long and hard
So what's your point?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 09:09 - ID#396249)
NEW AMERICAN DOLLAR COIN.....say goodbye to IN GOD WE TRUST..say hello to ONE CONCEPT...

(Sat Aug 08 1998 09:13 - ID#280214)
Mr. Mick - most folks are not mathematicians - numeracy is withering.
Yes, I agree the fundamental values are usable resources - be they land and the food, fiber, fuel, and metal derived therefrom or labor or the recreational value of a video tape. We use some common "thing" {physical or virtual} to trade with others for these resources. It really matters not what the medium of exchange is as long as people have faith they can pass it off to the next person in the chain of exchange.

I could start my own "currency" with chunks of iron pyrite.
As long as I worked out a deal with other merchants, employers, etc. that they would use the stuff for payroll and accept it for payment then pyrite could be money. There would be one heckuva rush for the hills to sift through the old mine dumps. Thence would follow some phenomenal inflation - just like in 1860 here when Gold was being "mined" from the placer deposits in California Gulch.

Flour in Oro City in 1859-60 sold for 7 to 10 dollars a "sack" while placer Gold traded for 16 1/2 dollars per ounce. {Nearly everyone here at the time traded with Gold and scales were common} The size of that "sack" of flour was not specified in the historical account but it couldn't have been more than 50 pounds. That places the exchange rate at 100 pounds of flour per ounce of Gold. It is no wonder that Horace & Augusta Tabor, two of the early placer miners, took their Gold pannings back east that first winter and returned with as much flour as they could afford and their wagons could haul.

The above prices are from a definitive 2-volume "History of Leadville and Lake County, Colorado" by Griswold & Griswold.

Mr. Mick
(Sat Aug 08 1998 09:19 - ID#345321)
Squirrel, we are on the same wavelength..............
live long and prosper.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 09:27 - ID#280214)
Coincidence on Exchange rates - Gold & Flour? FWIW
Walton Feed at
has flour selling for $8.75 for a 50 pound sack - about the same as in Oro City, Colorado a {placer Gold camp} in 1859-60 where flour sold for
"7 to 10 dollars a sack. Since one ounce of Gold {see earlier post} bought two sacks back then, either flour today is darn cheap or Gold darn expensive. {actually since Oro City was a remote mountain camp, flour was excessively rare and expensive and Gold ridiculously plentiful and cheap}

(Sat Aug 08 1998 09:30 - ID#280214)
Mr. Mick - Namaste' and Live Long and Prosper
to you as well. Have a great weekend.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 09:38 - ID#280214)
Think Long... - good gosh, what happened to two syllable handles?
So your country's bank bought some Gold. With what? Their gold backed currency? Their backing did not increase because they have more currency outstanding. But, yes, they did make a small profit - just like Goldbugs here hope to do, just as some here hope to do with a Gold coin they are working on trying to get in "circulation". Any government makes some seignorage on the coins it mints. The US Treasury make $1.25 ( or thereabouts ) on every Silver Eagle.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 09:42 - ID#288369)
@just got back from WalMart..........
...picked up a can of Shinola so I wouldn't forget what it looked like. Now I remember the difference between it and shat. They really aren't that much alike. ohmy.
Green money wilts at a bit greater rate than that rate offered by banks to eat it. Gold, on the other hand, doen't wilt much at fact, about half of the time it actually grows pretty well. I sure do like it...and silver too.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 09:52 - ID#257136)
I followed links on your 09:09 and lo and behold the link to "One day of peace" led to scads of other stuff by neo socialists such as ed asner, et. al..
The way they hammered the one day of peace theme reminds me of a cliche I learned in the 60s.
"You ask for peace- you will get it! The peace of the SLAVE or the peace of the GRAVE!"
If you swallow the one worlder garbage.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 09:53 - ID#288369)
any rain yet?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 09:53 - ID#280214)
STUDIO.R - they actually still sell that stuff? ;-)
Not surprised since our gutless leaders still sell the other stuff too.

I do hope Gold gets to the other half of the time before next year.
Same for Silver - though I wouldn't mind if its time came sooner - but AFTER I've had a chance to buy more at lower prices - maybe below $4.
I do sort of expect Gold to sink another $50 {or more} since there are no cataclysmic armageddons on the near horizon {and that may be what is needed to kick gold in the butt - nothing else has worked lately!}

(Sat Aug 08 1998 09:54 - ID#43349)
On the other side of the coin, gold and silver have metallic properties unmatched by any other metal. It is easy to see the coming demise of an existing technology, but not the breakthrough of a coming one....

(Sat Aug 08 1998 09:54 - ID#432221)
Squirrel, your opinions are thought provoking, and could possibly

be correct in the end, noone knows now.
The reason gold still holds value is that it is still ,in fact, the root base value store used by the worlds govornments. Any nations currency strength is dictated by by the faith that that nation's citizens and the rest of the world put in that nation's govornment. For me and the majority of others, the level of faith is dictated by the strength of the economy, the strength of the military, the history of debt payments ( credit rating ) , and the amount of real assets held ( gold ) , among other things.
The success of fiat systems is historically dismal, and so far, this fiat system is following the historical patters that have, in the past, led to economic collapse. It is true that computers have changed the rules of the game somewhat, but it's too soon to know if they'll change the whole game.
In this age of uncertainty, it is imperative ( for me ) to be prepared for any forseeable happenstance. I have stored food, weapons, meds, fuel, PMs, cash, gas masks and filters, potassium iodide, etc..I've moved way away from any urban area.Again, prepared for any forseeable happenstance. Were I to omit PMs from my preparations, I'd be leaving myself vulnerable just as sure as if I omitted food or fuel or cash.
As to weapons, the 38 is not my first choice in a handgun. I've come to depend on the newer high capacity 45s, 15 rounds with the classic thump of a 45. In long guns, you cannot do better than an accurized M1A ( or M-14 if your lucky ) . With 168 gr. Matchking hollow points, mine will do coin size groups at 100 yds off a bench. Augment the aforementioned with a pump 12 ga stoked with 3" mag #4 buck and fully choked, and you can effectively guard your stash till someone gets the drop on ya.
The point is, cover all your bases.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:00 - ID#288369)
@Squirrel........I dig what you got there.....sure do.....
What or who tells a squirrel to start storin' up some nuts? Maybe, that's who we ought to listen to. I'm goin' out in the back yard and look around for that guy. He's gotta' be up in that tree.

Only buy that gold with dollars that are startin' to go bad. G&P to YA!!!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:01 - ID#316193)
The Best Weekly Market "Look Back" on the Web

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:02 - ID#427357)

The venerable Oracle of Alberta shares his intellectual vision with us again. His philosophical view is unmistakable.

"We stand, as on the bow of great ship Titanic, enroute to a millennium
checkmate and secular crescendo unprecedented in human history, since
the attempted construction of the Tower of Babel. The tyranny of the
old monarchies has simply been replaced by a less visible new world
order of merchant bankers and industrialist with similar objectives but
without ethical and moral guidance systems."

One may not agree with his unique interpretation and poignant analysis of the real world, but I challenge you to refute it!

Extremely well-written - and worth the reading to appreciate a different perspective. It may be seen at the following URL - it's necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before posting it to the Internet:

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:08 - ID#288369)
@Nick O' say......can you seeee..........
I read your ditty about selling the weak sisters about six times. I think that was some good thinkin'. yessir, and I don't like to think that much. G&P!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:11 - ID#242325)
NAFTA and drugs
Our government continues to decry drug use. But NAFTA made it much easier to smuggle drugs into the US. Another example of blatant hypocrisy.

A Customs Department report confirms that NAFTA has made it easier for
Mexican traffickers to smuggle drugs into the United States. A former
high-level DEA official says that for Mexico's drug gangs, `NAFTA is a deal
made in narco-heaven.'

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:11 - ID#280214)
grant - you certainly have it covered!
I agree that given a technological collapse which aborts the birth of a worldwide standard in cybermoney and cyber IDs then Gold & Silver will remain of value since they are widely recognized to be worth something - unlike the fiat currencies which could collapse during the same period.

I look forward to such a collapse heading off some of the big brother schemes being hatched in some federal and U.N. circles.

Your thought on weapons gives me pause to think. Yes, I should check out the gunshow for a high capacity semi-auto in a fairly hefty caliber. I have a 44mag revolver and a 38 snubnose. I was thinking of picking up a second 38/357 since it would give me two weapons using the same ammo. I believe .357 semi-autos are fairly rare - though there is a .357 Desert Eagle. Your advice leads me to not rule out a .45 if I find a good buy.
Each gunshow here may be our last - if Clinton has his way. Thus my first priority is a handgun since they will be the first to suffer banning.
A 12 guage high capacity pump is another high priority. I have the rifle end covered except for a 22 for varmints - but those should remain available for a few years yet.
Thanks for the ideas.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:14 - ID#288369)
@vronsky.......Your site rox.
When's Feta 500? I still can't believe you named it after cheeezO...but I'm sure you had your reasons. Hell, I don't care what you call it...let's just get it done in my lifetime. G&P to YA!!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:20 - ID#290232)
What percentage of the U.S. Population actually has any significant
physical holding of gold or silver coins or bars sitting in a safe at home or buried in the backyard? I would hazard a guess that it's less than 1/2 of
1 percent and that's probably a drastic over estimate.

Now alot of people here seem inclined to think that one day paper currency will become worthless and then this miniscule group of people with a little gold and silver will all be rich.

Now for a dose of reality. Does Germany use use gold and silver as currency? Why not. Their paper currency was worthless not that long ago. Yes, paper currency can become worthless. The result however is that whatever government is in power simply comes up with a "new" paper currency.

If they have any problem with getting the people to accept it then they
just outlaw the alternatives ( gold & silver ) .

Those fo you who say that the people of the U.S. today would not tolerate outlawing private ownership of PM's need to consider this.

Assume that the Government confiscated everyones gold ( except for
personal jewerly ) tonight and tommorrow morning everyone in every small
town in America woke up and read the following in their home town papers:

"Bubba Jones" and "Willard Johnson" were shot and killed last night
by federal agents after they resisted turning over outlawed gold & silver
bullion". Do you really think that everyone that reads this is going to say "well that's the final straw Martha, I'm getting out the shotgun, and going down to the court house to make this right!" I don't think so! Especially
when the news media is saying the the old timers were "right wing
extremists, etc, etc".

Face it. We are doomed. As long as the Government keeps most people from going hungry and makes sure they have a shack to live in,
we will continue to go to work and surrender 1/2 of what we make ( soon
to be much more ) in taxes. We're slaves. We just don't realize it yet.

Even the masters of the old south plantations made sure their slaves had food and shelter. Sure once and a while they would whip one to send a message to keep the others in line, Kinda like our government does now
when they shoot a woman in the head while she's holding a baby at Ruby Ridge.

Want to know what the next 100 years holds in store? This is our future:

1. The government will continue to allow 1 1/2 millon poor immigrants
into the U.S. every year.

2. Within the next 20 years this massive influx of immigrants, almosts all
of whom vote democratic because of the democrats positions on social programs will swing control of our government to the far left.

3. Once the liberals are firmly in control, the 45-50% we pay in taxes today will be slowly increased to around 80%. But look at everything
we will get in return like socialized health care!

4. The standard of living for the majority will fall.

5. With one party ( the democrats ) firmly in control, and no worries about
any other party being able to oppose them, thousands of new regulations and laws will be imposed that will make it next to
impossible for any other political party to get on the ballots. This
will ensure that nothing ever changes.

6. Private ownership of guns will gradually be outlawed or regulated to
the point that only the rich can afford the registration fees. The will
ensure that the citizens will never be able to oppose the government.

7. Closer and closer ties between world governments via the UN will
make sure that the masters kept the servants in control. Any flare
ups of liberty will be quickly dealt with by branding the upstart
governments as "rouge states".

In short, our future is slavery on a world wide scale. Welcome to the
New World Order.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:22 - ID#257136)
In your 08:12 you state you will have deer meat.

As a native of the "High Country" and having observed
the fall hunts for decades, I have a question for you.

When all the yuppies and camo guys from Denver and the east slope get to summit county,, who will play dog and who will shoot the deer?

One year AT Meeker--you've been there I'm sure-
my uncle was hunting alone and shot a massive 4 point muley.

He walked a few dozen yards through the cedars and jack pines and pions
and as he came to the clearing where the deer lay, he found a feller cutting its throat.
This feller was a very large black from Denver and he was not the least bit friendly.
The uncle had two choices: kill another animal or back off.

Since he related the tale, it's obvious his choice.

As there are now over three ( 3 ) million in CO., I am sure there will be more than a handful of merchants from the tourist traps who will head for the High Country with the idea of survival in mind.

Always keep in mind the way a successful sniper works.

Patience and fortitude.

There will be many such out there, rest assured.

Better put some of that buckskin in bottles.

And jerk it as well!

And everytime you venture outdoors -post calamity- have a travel route which provides lots of cover.

And try not to go out except at night.

Or, better yet, stay in and use the food and read the books and store the offal in the containers as they are emptied.
This saves the trips to the outhouse when there's a ground blizzard and a 30 mph wind blowing snow up your keester.

A man with his pants down on a privy seat is not only a ludicrous figure, but a nearly helpless one!

I'll come visit summit and teller and pitkin and all the other mountain counties after the debacle has ended.

Hope to meet you then!

( 8+^} ) [

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:28 - ID#288369)
@Silverbear.........I can comfortably state that here.......
in Oklahoma, where less than .00000000000001% have any gold, that the federales wouldn't make it back to their van alive. We like Bubba and Willard, even though they were half nuts. And we don't like federales, even nice ones.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:31 - ID#289181)
Old Gold 10:11
You got that right. Someone in DC making $$$ on narco-NAFTA. Arkansas, too...

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:33 - ID#261155)
here is UN site containing all treaties, I would be interested to know what is here, but really lack the time and energy to look thru it if anyone or everyone would care to peek in here and find anything of interest.... go for it.....

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:37 - ID#261155)
@all......oops sorry about that forgot two capital letters!!! :0))))
here is UN site containing all treaties, I would be interested to know what is here, but really lack the time and energy to look thru it if anyone or everyone would care to peek in here and find anything of interest.... go for it.....

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:41 - ID#288369)
@maybe the next Great War will be between........
the States and Washington, D.C.. I would like to fight in that war.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:43 - ID#261155)
@all, this is another related UN site...
so please feel free to use them both, this one is an overview site!!!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:44 - ID#34883)
Great Myths of the Great Depression

Great Myths of the Great Depression
by Lawrence W. Reed

Many volumes have been written about the Great Depression and its
impact on the lives of millions of Americans. Historians, economists,
and politicians have all combed the wreckage searching for the "black
box" that will reveal the cause of this legendary tragedy. Sadly, all too
many of them decide to abandon their search, finding it easier perhaps
to circulate a host of false and harmful conclusions about the events of
seven decades ago.

How bad was the Great Depression? Over the four years from 1929
to 1933, production at the nation's factories, mines, and utilities fell by
more than half. People's real disposable incomes dropped 28 percent.
Stock prices collapsed to one-tenth of their pre-crash height. The
number of unemployed Americans rose from 1.6 million in 1929 to
12.8 million in 1933. One of every four workers was out of a job at
the Depression's nadir, and ugly rumors of revolt simmered for the first
time since the Civil War.

Old myths never die; they just keep showing up in college economics
and political science textbooks. Students today are frequently taught
that unfettered free enterprise collapsed of its own weight in 1929,
paving the way for a decade-long economic depression full of hardship
and misery. President Herbert Hoover is presented as an advocate of
"hands-off," or laissez-faire, economic policy, while his successor,
Franklin Roosevelt, is the economic savior whose policies brought us
recovery. This popular account of the Depression belongs in a book of
fairy tales and not in a serious discussion of economic history, as a
review of the facts demonstrates.

The Great, Great, Great, Great Depression

To properly understand the events of the time, it is appropriate to view
the Great Depression as not one, but four consecutive depressions
rolled into one. Professor Hans Sennholz has labeled these four
"phases" as follows: the business cycle; the disintegration of the world
economy; the New Deal; and the Wagner Act.1

The first phase explains why the crash of 1929 happened in the first
place; the other three show how government intervention kept the
economy in a stupor for over a decade.

Phase I: The Business Cycle

The Great Depression was not the country's first depression, though it
proved to be the longest. The common thread woven through the
several earlier debacles was disastrous manipulation of the money
supply by government. For various reasons, government policies were
adopted that ballooned the quantity of money and credit. A boom
resulted, followed later by a painful day of reckoning. None of
America's depressions prior to 1929, however, lasted more than four
years and most of them were over in two. The Great Depression
lasted for a dozen years because the government compounded its
monetary errors with a series of harmful interventions.

Most monetary economists, particularly those of the "Austrian school,"
have observed the close relationship between money supply and
economic activity. When government inflates the money and credit
supply, interest rates at first fall. Businesses invest this "easy money" in
new production projects and a boom takes place in capital goods. As
the boom matures, business costs rise, interest rates readjust upward,
and profits are squeezed. The easy-money effects thus wear off and
the monetary authorities, fearing price inflation, slow the growth of or
even contract the money supply. In either case, the manipulation is
enough to knock out the shaky supports from underneath the
economic house of cards.

One of the most thorough and meticulously documented accounts of
the Fed's inflationary actions prior to 1929 is America's Great
Depression by the late Murray Rothbard. Using a broad measure that
includes currency, demand and time deposits, and other ingredients,
Rothbard estimated that the Federal Reserve expanded the money
supply by more than 60 percent from mid-1921 to mid-1929.2 The
flood of easy money drove interest rates down, pushed the stock
market to dizzy heights, and gave birth to the "Roaring Twenties."

By early 1929, the Federal Reserve was taking the punch away from
the party. It choked off the money supply, raised interest rates, and for
the next three years presided over a money supply that shrank by 30
percent. This deflation following the inflation wrenched the economy
from tremendous boom to colossal bust.

The "smart" money  the Bernard Baruchs and the Joseph Kennedys
who watched things like money supply  saw that the party was
coming to an end before most other Americans did. Baruch actually
began selling stocks and buying bonds and gold as early as 1928;
Kennedy did likewise, commenting, "only a fool holds out for the top

When the masses of investors eventually sensed the change in Fed
policy, the stampede was underway. The stock market, after nearly
two months of moderate decline, plunged on "Black Thursday" 
October 24, 1929  as the pessimistic view of large and
knowledgeable investors spread.

The stock market crash was only a symptom  not the cause  of
the Great Depression: the market rose and fell in near synchronization
with what the Fed was doing.

Phase II: Disintegration of the World Economy

If this crash had been like previous ones, the subsequent hard times
might have ended in a year or two. But unprecedented political
bungling instead prolonged the misery for twelve long years.

Unemployment in 1930 averaged a mildly recessionary 8.9 percent,
up from 3.2 percent in 1929. It shot up rapidly until peaking out at
more than 25 percent in 1933. Until March 1933, these were the
years of President Herbert Hoover  the man that anti-capitalists
depict as a champion of noninterventionist, laissez-faire economics.

Did Hoover really subscribe to a "hands off the economy,"
free-market philosophy? His opponent in the 1932 election, Franklin
Roosevelt, didn't think so. During the campaign, Roosevelt blasted
Hoover for spending and taxing too much, boosting the national debt,
choking off trade, and putting millions of people on the dole. He
accused the president of "reckless and extravagant" spending, of
thinking "that we ought to center control of everything in Washington
as rapidly as possible," and of presiding over "the greatest spending
administration in peacetime in all of history." Roosevelt's running mate,
John Nance Garner, charged that Hoover was "leading the country
down the path of socialism."4 Contrary to the modern myth about
Hoover, Roosevelt and Garner were absolutely right.

The crowning folly of the Hoover administration was the
Smoot-Hawley Tariff, passed in June 1930. It came on top of the
Fordney-McCumber Tariff of 1922, which had already put American
agriculture in a tailspin during the preceding decade. The most
protectionist legislation in U.S. history, Smoot-Hawley virtually closed
the borders to foreign goods and ignited a vicious international trade
war. Professor Barry Poulson notes that not only were 887 tariffs
sharply increased, but the act broadened the list of dutiable
commodities to 3,218 items as well.5

Officials in the administration and in Congress believed that raising
trade barriers would force Americans to buy more goods made at
home, which would solve the nagging unemployment problem. They
ignored an important principle of international commerce: trade is
ultimately a two-way street; if foreigners cannot sell their goods here,
then they cannot earn the dollars they need to buy here.

Foreign companies and their workers were flattened by
Smoot-Hawley's steep tariff rates, and foreign governments soon
retaliated with trade barriers of their own. With their ability to sell in
the American market severely hampered, they curtailed their
purchases of American goods. American agriculture was particularly
hard hit. With a stroke of the presidential pen, farmers in this country
lost nearly a third of their markets. Farm prices plummeted and tens of
thousands of farmers went bankrupt. With the collapse of agriculture,
rural banks failed in record numbers, dragging down hundreds of
thousands of their customers.

Hoover dramatically increased government spending for subsidy and
relief schemes. In the space of one year alone, from 1930 to 1931, the
federal government's share of GNP increased by about one-third.

Hoover's agricultural bureaucracy doled out hundreds of millions of
dollars to wheat and cotton farmers even as the new tariffs wiped out
their markets. His Reconstruction Finance Corporation ladled out
billions more in business subsidies. Commenting decades later on
Hoover's administration, Rexford Guy Tugwell, one of the architects of
Franklin Roosevelt's policies of the 1930s, explained, "We didn't
admit it at the time, but practically the whole New Deal was
extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."6

To compound the folly of high tariffs and huge subsidies, Congress
then passed and Hoover signed the Revenue Act of 1932. It doubled
the income tax for most Americans; the top bracket more than
doubled, going from 24 percent to 63 percent. Exemptions were
lowered; the earned income credit was abolished; corporate and
estate taxes were raised; new gift, gasoline, and auto taxes were
imposed; and postal rates were sharply hiked.

Can any serious scholar observe the Hoover administration's massive
economic intervention and, with a straight face, pronounce the
inevitably deleterious effects as the fault of free markets?

Phase III: The New Deal

Franklin Delano Roosevelt won the 1932 presidential election in a
landslide, collecting 472 electoral votes to just 59 for the incumbent
Herbert Hoover. The platform of the Democratic Party whose ticket
Roosevelt headed declared, "We believe that a party platform is a
covenant with the people to be faithfully kept by the party entrusted
with power." It called for a 25 percent reduction in federal spending, a
balanced federal budget, a sound gold currency "to be preserved at all
hazards," the removal of government from areas that belonged more
appropriately to private enterprise, and an end to the "extravagance"
of Hoover's farm programs. This is what candidate Roosevelt
promised, but it bears no resemblance to what President Roosevelt
actually delivered.

In the first year of the New Deal, Roosevelt proposed spending $10
billion while revenues were only $3 billion. Between 1933 and 1936,
government expenditures rose by more than 83 percent. Federal debt
skyrocketed by 73 percent.

Roosevelt secured passage of the Agricultural Adjustment Act ( AAA ) ,
which levied a new tax on agricultural processors and used the
revenue to supervise the wholesale destruction of valuable crops and
cattle. Federal agents oversaw the ugly spectacle of perfectly good
fields of cotton, wheat, and corn being plowed under. Healthy cattle,
sheep, and pigs by the millions were slaughtered and buried in mass

Even if the AAA had helped farmers by curtailing supplies and raising
prices, it could have done so only by hurting millions of others who
had to pay those prices or make do with less to eat.

Perhaps the most radical aspect of the New Deal was the National
Industrial Recovery Act ( NIRA ) , passed in June 1933, which set up
the National Recovery Administration ( NRA ) . Under the NIRA, most
manufacturing industries were suddenly forced into
government-mandated cartels. Codes that regulated prices and terms
of sale briefly transformed much of the American economy into a
fascist-style arrangement, while the NRA was financed by new taxes
on the very industries it controlled. Some economists have estimated
that the NRA boosted the cost of doing business by an average of 40
percent  not something a depressed economy needed for recovery.

Like Hoover before him, Roosevelt signed into law steep income tax
rate increases for the high brackets and introduced a 5 percent
withholding tax on corporate dividends. In fact, tax hikes became a
favorite policy of the president's for the next ten years, culminating in a
top income tax rate of 94 percent during the last year of World War
II. His alphabet agency commissars spent the public's tax money like it
was so much bilge.

For example, Roosevelt's public relief programs hired actors to give
free shows and librarians to catalogue archives. The New Deal even
paid researchers to study the history of the safety pin, hired 100
Washington workers to patrol the streets with balloons to frighten
starlings away from public buildings, and put men on the public payroll
to chase tumbleweeds on windy days.

Roosevelt created the Civil Works Administration in November 1933
and ended it in March 1934, though the unfinished projects were
transferred to the Federal Emergency Relief Administration. Roosevelt
had assured Congress in his State of the Union message that any new
such program would be abolished within a year. "The federal
government," said the President, "must and shall quit this business of
relief. I am not willing that the vitality of our people be further stopped
by the giving of cash, of market baskets, of a few bits of weekly work
cutting grass, raking leaves, or picking up papers in the public parks."

But in 1935 the Works Progress Administration came along. It is
known today as the very government program that gave rise to the
new term, "boondoggle," because it "produced" a lot more than the
77,000 bridges and 116,000 buildings to which its advocates loved to
point as evidence of its efficacy.7 The stupefying roster of wasteful
spending generated by these jobs programs represented a diversion of
valuable resources to politically motivated and economically
counterproductive purposes.

The American economy was soon relieved of the burden of some of
the New Deal's excesses when the Supreme Court outlawed the NRA
in 1935 and the AAA in 1936, earning Roosevelt's eternal wrath and
derision. Recognizing much of what Roosevelt did as unconstitutional,
the "nine old men" of the Court also threw out other, more minor acts
and programs which hindered recovery.

Freed from the worst of the New Deal, the economy showed some
signs of life. Unemployment dropped to 18 percent in 1935, 14
percent in 1936, and even lower in 1937. But by 1938, it was back
up to 20 percent as the economy slumped again. The stock market
crashed nearly 50 percent between August 1937 and March 1938.
The "economic stimulus" of Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal had
achieved a real "first": a depression within a depression!

Phase IV: The Wagner Act

The stage was set for the 1937-38 collapse with the passage of the
National Labor Relations Act in 1935  better known as the Wagner
Act and organized labor's "Magna Carta." To quote Hans Sennholz

This law revolutionized American labor relations. It took labor
disputes out of the courts of law and brought them under a newly
created Federal agency, the National Labor Relations Board, which
became prosecutor, judge, and jury, all in one. Labor union
sympathizers on the Board further perverted this law, which already
afforded legal immunities and privileges to labor unions. The U.S.
thereby abandoned a great achievement of Western civilization,
equality under the law.8

Armed with these sweeping new powers, labor unions went on a
militant organizing frenzy. Threats, boycotts, strikes, seizures of plants,
and widespread violence pushed productivity down sharply and
unemployment up dramatically. Membership in the nation's labor
unions soared; by 1941 there were two and a half times as many
Americans in unions as in 1935.

From the White House on the heels of the Wagner Act came a
thunderous barrage of insults against business. Businessmen, Roosevelt
fumed, were obstacles on the road to recovery. New strictures on the
stock market were imposed. A tax on corporate retained earnings,
called the "undistributed profits tax," was levied. "These soak-the-rich
efforts," writes economist Robert Higgs, "left little doubt that the
president and his administration intended to push through Congress
everything they could to extract wealth from the high-income earners
responsible for making the bulk of the nation's decisions about private

Higgs draws a close connection between the level of private
investment and the course of the American economy in the 1930s. The
relentless assaults of the Roosevelt administration  in both word and
deed  against business, property, and free enterprise guaranteed
that the capital needed to jumpstart the economy was either taxed
away or forced into hiding. When Roosevelt took America to war in
1941, he eased up on his antibusiness agenda, but a great deal of the
nation's capital was diverted into the war effort instead of into plant
expansion or consumer goods. Not until both Roosevelt and the war
were gone did investors feel confident enough to "set in motion the
postwar investment boom that powered the economy's return to
sustained prosperity."10

Whither Free Enterprise?

On the eve of America's entry into World War II and twelve years
after the stock market crash of Black Thursday, ten million Americans
were jobless. Roosevelt had pledged in 1932 to end the crisis, but it
persisted two presidential terms and countless interventions later.

Along with the horror of World War II came a revival of trade with
America's allies. The war's destruction of people and resources did
not help the U.S. economy, but this renewed trade did. More
important, the Truman administration that followed Roosevelt was
decidedly less eager to berate and bludgeon private investors, and as a
result, those investors came back into the economy to fuel a powerful
postwar boom.

The genesis of the Great Depression lay in the inflationary monetary
policies of the U.S. government in the 1920s. It was prolonged and
exacerbated by a litany of political missteps: trade-crushing tariffs,
incentive-sapping taxes, mind-numbing controls on production and
competition, senseless destruction of crops and cattle, and coercive
labor laws, to recount just a few. It was not the free market that
produced twelve years of agony; rather, it was political bungling on a
scale as grand as there ever was.

1. Hans F. Sennholz, "The Great Depression," The Freeman, April 1975, p. 205.

2. Murray Rothbard, America's Great Depression ( Kansas City: Sheed and
Ward, Inc., 1975 ) , p. 89.

3. Lindley H. Clark, Jr., "After the Fall," Wall Street Journal, October 26, 1979,
p. 18.

4. "FDR's Disputed Legacy," Time, February 1, 1982, p. 23.

5. Barry W. Poulson, Economic History of the United States ( New York:
Macmillan Publishing Co., Inc., 1981 ) , p. 508.

6. Paul Johnson, A History of the American People ( New York: HarperCollins
Publishers, 1997 ) , p. 741.

7. Martin Morse Wooster, "Bring Back the WPA? It Also Had A Seamy Side,"
Wall Street Journal, September 3, 1986, p. A26.

8. Sennholz, pp. 212-13.

9. Robert Higgs, "Regime Uncertainty: Why the Great Depression Lasted So
Long and Why Prosperity Resumed After the War," The Independent Review,
Spring 1997, p. 573.

10. Ibid., p. 564.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:46 - ID#432221)
Squirrel, with any luck, Clintler will no longer pose much of a threat

to the free trade of arms. His loss of credibility and power ( for obvious reasons ) has hopefully taken him out of the gun control game. Methinks we have much more potent enemies to worry about.
Like you, I look forward to a collapse of the "system" in hopes it would return the control of our destiny to us. Unfortunately, it seems there is a chance that the opportunity presented by a societal calamity could be used by the NWO crowd to tighten the grip.
I sincerely hope that American Constitutional patriotism stays strong. The means to redress wrongs politically is fast evaporating, and the chances of an armed confrontation seem to be quietly increasing. It is
still possible, I think, to install a strong and rightous leadership in the govornment, if it happens, it will be because the strong and rightous put them there. The scary thing is, there are more weak and morally corrupt people out there than strong and rightous.
One way or the other, I expect to see it in my lifetime. This is a fascinating era to experience, albeit quite alarming.
Kitco has been one of the best things that has ever happened to me. I really appreciate all the diversity of view here.
GO GOLD!!!!!!!!!! gb

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:47 - ID#288369)
@Which ever side Texas is on,.......
( like that's a real question!.....huh? ) that's the uniform that private studio will proudly wear.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:48 - ID#261155)
@all, this is another related UN site...try it again.. it is right!!!
so please feel free to use them both, this one is an overview site

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:51 - ID#288369)
@should "ladies" go first at the lynchin'?
Okay!, Reno first........then Clitton.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:55 - ID#26793)
Mexican government refuses to identify those who will benefit from bank bailout.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 10:56 - ID#333126)
domino effect in the Silicon semiconductor industry


(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:00 - ID#26793)
Venezuela shuts down 74 oil drill rigs in attempt to restore falling oil prices

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:02 - ID#156161)
famine & slavery
skinny: I think that famine, in this century,
has been more of a political concoction than
a climatic event.

Silverbear: The truth in your list is making me
uncomfortable. My faith in US citizens standing
up for freedom has diminished.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:03 - ID#42039)
goldmines shreholders fidelity
To All:Isn t it time for gold companies to strengthen shareholders fidelity in-1- rising common dividend and/ or-2- forgetting the exuberant privilege of management team and/ or
-3- breaking explorations expenditures in order to focus on reducing
total cost per ounce concerning discovered and opened sights

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:04 - ID#261155)
when I had earned my first gun at post camp I was 9, gramma paid me 5 cents for every ( ground ) squirel tail I brought in with it....patience became a way of life, and has been every since....I have sat whole days...and sometimes two... for one an ol wise but missed before squirel!!! the times I had....and gramma too....: ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) I still have the piece and my patience then.... seemed such a feat...but I learned well... never ever, can you have too much patience comming or going....

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:04 - ID#288369)
@Donald...God bless you!.........
I needed that Venezuela article to make my weekend! Cheers! Salud!! A Gulp...A YA!!! Maybe, just maybe..............!!!!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:10 - ID#26793)
The bad news is that all those unemployed oil workers will become gold prospectors on the Orinoco bringing in tons of the stuff and dropping the gold price even lower.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:10 - ID#287279)
Sorry to break this to you boys, but gold has lost its luster!;- )
"Silver, gold lose their luster.
Weak yen, fund selling, soft demand drive a slump in the precious

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:18 - ID#288369)
maybe, just maybe they'll all go to work for Yahoo! instead. I hear it's the coming thing! ;^ ) ~

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:24 - ID#261155)
it may not be that simple...being a gold miner...first you have to know what is gold...then you have to aquire the knack of finding it...then you need to be able to find enough to earn a living....then you really need to aquire the skill to make it PAY!!! hee hee.....

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:28 - ID#261155)
@ I would
really recommend Yahoo for those with families to feed!!!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:34 - ID#234218)
@ Studio R
I would concur with your 10:28. Silverbaron what do you classify as a "significant holding"?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:41 - ID#219363)
Nick@C, Auric, others ...
About those 1999 leap puts. I've got a little gambling money and am interested in taking a shot as well. Interesting thoughts Nick about high fliers maybe not being the best fallers in the event of an emergency. So, what's a good choice then ? What stocks are sitting there just waiting to buy a ticket to hell ? I'm inexperienced buying puts ( thus I'm only going to do it with money I don't mind losing ) , so any help appreciated.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:42 - ID#261155)
@Silver Baron.....
Yes as long as people don't go hungry....but we are at the point...that I think the greedy wil sell off our wheat and food just as they have our hay and Cherries.... and when you can't buy food... because it has been sold thru govt, overseas... what then......There is only one thing that will motivate people.....HUNGER.... but look back at many just lay down and died!!!!! scary is gives me nightmares I will never ever get rid of.....

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:48 - ID#427357)
Merrill Lynch: The Year 2000 Computer Problem In Perspective

E V E N T.................. ..ESTIMATED COST

World War II................$4,200,000,000,000

Millennium Challenge..........$600,000,000,000*

Vietnam Conflict................$500,000,000,000

Kobe Earthquake...............$100,000,000,000

Los Angeles Earthquake........$60,000,000,000

( * ) $600 billion translates to a per capita cost $2,220 per every man, woman and child in the US.

Sources: Gartner Group and Congressional Research Service


If you are still calm and collective in the face of this looming problem, while everyone around you is frantically running around in circles and wringing their hands, perhaps you may not fully understand the situation. That being the case, you might do well to peruse our Y2K Index of reports at the following URL. BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY!

It will be necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before posting the URL to the Internet.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:50 - ID#432221)
Silverbear, your scenario is probable. We are running out of time in the

almost unknown race to save ourselves. We really only seem to have one chance left to install a rightous and uncorrupt ( relative term ) leadership. Thankfully, the Demos are helping a Repub landslide every way they know how. If the Repubs will just lay low and allow Clinton and his crew to bury themselves, and then fire up the moderate to conservative voters by pointing out the facts, a strong Repub majority would result. Not a white knight mind you, but a damn sight better than socialist slavery.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:52 - ID#219363)
That's touches on an axiom of some political voters - if you want party X to be in power in six years, elect an extreme member of party Y now.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:58 - ID#432221)
Indubitably Envy, there's nothing better for conservatism than a liberal

govornment. I spose the flipside is also true. It's that pendulum thing.

The Hermit
(Sat Aug 08 1998 11:59 - ID#374232)
@ Mole
Your post of 10:44 is excellent. The amount of mis-information we have been exposed to during the past century is truly astounding and still goes on. Thank you for your efforts!

The Hermit

(Sat Aug 08 1998 12:15 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Hi, brother John.

Sometimes, when you hunt the deer, you may run into
different problems, like having no luck to see the
deer for 2-3 days in a row. Also, rifle scope may
prove to be not fogproof or whether is too cold
to sit quitly w/o moving. Anyway, if deer tracks
are there, deer should be there...

Did read 22:05. Sure, the whole picture is still unclear.
So, what we do? We keep coming back next time in hope
to get it.That is how somebody can finally be successful
if, of course, this somebody is lucky enough...

Will discuss drinking in the woods later, it's an exciting
subject.Nice talking to you again. Your brother Oris.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 12:18 - ID#28994)
I assume when you refer to most famines this century being political that you are referring to people who are starving because of war and not genuine weather related famines. History, this century, has shown that to be correct. This century has also shown its share of weather related famines. I recall the one in Ehiopia caused by drought being quite severe. Also the Sudan and Angola have been affected. And of course in the last century we cannot forget the great Irish potato famine.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 12:32 - ID#280214)
a.j. - the "deer" I was alluding to included the 2-footed ones
who were caught in the headlights and unprepared thus they had to become predators {yuk - need more Tabasco sauce}.

Yes, I am familiar with the fight over game. I spent the first two decades of my life in rural NW PA. Cityfolk from Phily and out-of-state turned our backyard into a warzone. Every year somebody would get killed or injured over a "disagreement" about who would take a deer home. Some of those "hunters" would do most anything to get a trophy - including assaulting or killing the guy who downed it. {that was on top of these turkeys shooting at every bush that moved - even if it was a red pickup!}
During chaos and anarchy we won't be killing each other over trophies, but meat on the table for the spouse and kids. Just going down to the creek for water will be hazardous.

A couple of tips I should add to your good advice:
1.Minimize wood/coal smoke as much as possible - the smell carries for hundreds of yards even if the smoke is not visible.
2.Don't leave any tin cans or other garbage visible or smellable - they are only a neon sign saying "free food here" - to two-footed predators.
3.Do some outside errands during that blizzard cuz nobody else in their right mind would be out during that weather and if they are they would be blind. {just make sure you are VERY familiar with the territory}
4.Where camo - that fits the background - white in the winter.

BTW - by your uncle having "two choices: kill another animal or back off" what kind of animal might that have been? {and before the PC jumps on this - I regard ANY predator doing such a deed as an "animal" - or worse}

P.S. I am counting on the metro predators killing a lot of each other off before spring thaw {April}. The passes into here won't be passable for 4x4s until June. Unfortunately only the meanest, most capable SOBs will survive long enough to make it here. Springtime here could be ugly.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 12:35 - ID#156161)
I was thinking, in particular, of the Soviet Russian
famine of the 1920's, but in the more recent ones
that you mention the suffering was prolonged by inept
responses. I think that these situations reveal the
inability of socialist institutions to deal quickly
with unforseen circumstances. The book Atlas Shrugged
gives a literary description of such an occurance.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 12:38 - ID#147201)
Spock re Gold Ads
The cost of mass merch ads run 1/4 to 1/2 million $ to get started. If you have such, have I got a deal for you. email

Steve in TO__A
(Sat Aug 08 1998 13:00 - ID#287337)
Grant - If you're counting on the Lewinsky thing to . . .
distract Clinton from gun control, don't bet on it. Guess what he was doing at the same time Monica was giving her GJ testimony? He was presiding over a ceremony in the Rose Garden at the White House to commemorate the anniversary of last year's gun control legislation.

Look for him to try to appear "presidential" and "hard working" by promoting initiatives that are dear to the hearts of his supporters- he's going to need them after all! Gun control will be one of the things he pursues to appear to be a "do something" president.

We just have to hold our breath until Aug. 17 when we will find out just what he will do to try to worm out of this one. If Clinton denies again and tries to override Lewinsky a firestorm will break out, and he may not be able to brazen that one out. He'll definitely be distracted then.

If he admits perjury he'll probably last out his term as president, but he'll be exposed to huge private legal troubles. Paula Jones is appealing the dismissal of her trial- and if she can show that perjured testimony was provided in the first one, she'll have a much stronger case. Clinton stands to lose $1M in that judgement, along with huge added legal costs. Clinton's lawyers who helped him prepare the perjured affadavit are in big trouble too, since there is clear evidence of collusion between Clinton & Lewinsky that they must have known about. Dolly K. Brown is suing him as well- this will be perfect ammunition for her case. Linda Tripp might be able to include him as a defendant in a "constructive dismissal" lawsuit. The list goes on . . .

Watch Drudge's site on the 17th. This one is a cliffhanger, and no-one knows, yet, what Clinton will do. If Clinton denies, then the fireworks begin.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 13:07 - ID#402148)
ROR you are as non-partesian as Heraldo Riviera....
sitting at his desk at home, swearing you are not a liberal, with a JFK bust sitting right next to you ( as seen on TV ) .

Clinton hasn't done anything constructive in 6 years, the more he is distracted the better.


(Sat Aug 08 1998 13:10 - ID#290287)
Sharpness as measured in lines per millimeter lends a photograph only part of its perceived clarity. Your CRT monitor cannot provide anything close to quality that digital images are capable of. Those Kodak images were carefully chosen for image density, contrast, color saturation, texture, tone, and your familiarity with the subject matter so that your brain will automatically fill in the missing detail and make them SEEM sharp.

Is the final product for most people a small snapshot that can be put in an album, tacked to a wall, dropped in an envelope, carried around around in a purse/wallet, or a low res image on a webpage, or hundreds of small illustrations in a catalog, or full-page fashion shots in French Vogue? What will the great majority of new amateur snapshot photographers choose, relatively cheap, user friendly Advantix or more costly and complex digital?

Some day if you are interested I will snappy you an image or two I did when I was freelance photograper.

Got a close focusing camcorder? Get a Snappy!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 13:12 - ID#335184)
Mole, Your 10:44 is a show stopper synopsis- Standing Cooodos !
This should be required reading for all Kitco Grasshoppers as well as the rest of humanity.
I have recently obtained a copy of America's Great depression & am lapping it up . I also strongly reccomend The Twilight of Gold, a definitive Austrian School study of Gold & monetary policy from 1900 to 1933. A mind boogling eye popper of socialist myth making !
Thanks for this much needed refresher primer.



(Sat Aug 08 1998 13:14 - ID#335184)
America's great Depression is by Murry N. Rothbard

(Sat Aug 08 1998 13:17 - ID#287223)
ie your 7:26
SQUIRREL: Can you explain your "beans and peanut butter" mix? Is this similar to the corn and beans "perfect complement"? ( guns I understand, no explanation necessary )

(Sat Aug 08 1998 13:18 - ID#28994)
Yes - The great Russian political famine should be a must read for anyone who aspires to be a socialist. It is ironic that in the 1920's, american Dr. Armand Hammer supplied wheat to Lenin to help feed the Russian people. For many years, Hammer was a middle man for the exchange of spies between the United States and Russia. I believe Stalin and Kruchev ( sp? ) were the only Russian leaders that he was not personal friends with.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 13:57 - ID#174103)
Latest money supply figures from the FRB

It appears that while M3 has been expanding at around 7% over the past 3 months, M1 has fallen by 2.2%. Even more interesting, M2 divided by debt has now fallen to historic lows, at .269, lower than those reached in the early 30's ( about .32 ) I bring this up because the money supply scenario seems to be following Davidson's and Rees-Moog's outline in the Great Reckoning, where such developments are indicative of deflation.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:01 - ID#174103)
Excellent synopsis. Thanks.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:02 - ID#286230)
Strange Timing

Thursday, August 7, 1998

Under order, Archives to start snipping up
Nixon tapes

By NANCY BENAC -- Associated Press

WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- Acting under court order, the National Archives on Monday will begin cutting up the original Nixon White House tapes so that portions dealing with private matters can be returned to the Nixon estate.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:08 - ID#187109)
Kapex......and others...........(with respect).......
"Illegal gathering of files as well as having the most corrupt administration of any President EVER.." ( Kapex words ) ...
and you actually believe this?..........hmmmm the most corrupt......... EVER??!? with all due respect...........this is bullsheiss at it's best...there are more than TWO HUNDRED years worth of US presidents.........why do you make such uninformed statements? I guess it goes with all the other trash talk that goes on here most of the time........................

Every US presidency is and has been corrupt in one way or ANOTHER. ( They all have an AGENDA and people to please and 'favors' to grant etc. Many 'agendas' have been set in place loooooong before they were even nominated ) . The only thing that is different about them is the degree of corruptness. I am not condoning Bill Clinton's actions I am just adding perspective.

btw.....the 'leaders' of ALL nations have 'agendas' and levels of corruptness as well. It starts at the top......or does it start at the bottom with OUR OWN agendas...........I think the bottom.

Now........ I apologize to all ( mostly the non-US participants ) who are fed up with all this BC talk. Yawn...

I keep getting the feeling that people want Bill Clinton ( correct spelling ) to be 'ejected' from power to cause a stock crash just to see their gold go up......for one reason or ANOTHER.....but mostly to fill their OWN greedy pockets........not to seek justice................ ( and the American Way ) ............ ( I threw that last part in for Aurator ) ;- )

the end

One World......One Love......One Peopleo........and Jah Rastafari.............ever loving.........the Supreme Creator.......if there is one.

go plat.

away....from Sat. a.m. commentary

so Bill is a horndog. he shouldn't have denied but what choice did he have. he needs help for his sexual addiction. we as humans should recognize this and have compassion and try to help. it is a disease like his punishment should be to get help with certified counselors and or medication. the man needs help. if he indeed did it.

( and don't hammer me for my opinion and bring up any discussion about how my Disney stock did yesterday or how i am a communist or some other subversive or other crap that is not relative because you will be wasting your time here ) ........ ( it may be funny though ) ;-^ )

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:08 - ID#280214)
Steve in TO - I agree that "tail"gate won't slow down gun banning
The Capitol shootings will add fuel to fire of the handgun banners.
Unfortunately this year the semi-auto 45 may have to wait.
I blew most of my mad money on a 12gauge pump.
I could sell see if I could swap several dozen Silver Eagles
for that 45. Which is more important? Silver or a 45?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:22 - ID#187109)
i agree with this........does this make me a COMMIE? or a LIBERAL?
Date: Fri Aug 07 1998 20:33
In the last two weeks we have had a mad gun man attack the Capitol, Saddam thumb his nose at arms inspectors
and now two simultaneous attacks on US embassies in Africa. Is it time to tell Ken Starr to back off as we have to
close ranks in this emergency unraveling situation. His actions are hurting the President in dealing with all these
crises, surely something we all oppose. Should a mere tryst be allowed to affect America's security. We demand
the investigation be scuttled and let America function in a united self confident front instead of having attacks on the
President when crises abound and we can least afford it. KEN STARR STOP attacking America IN CRISIS.
oh yeah......I know, I know......Bill and his cronies staged ALL the recent tragedies to take heat off of himself.............yeah, that's it! We wouldn't want to lose perspective of splooge on a dress......
--------------------- the weekend

i agree except for the part about no Clinton fan...........I have no problem with him.....I am not a big fan.........I just have no problem......

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:27 - ID#156161)
STUDIO.R: I guarantee that there will be at least
one battalion of patriots ( paid in gold ) from New
England to serve with.
Mole: I hate the long posts, but I read them. Your
10:44 is on my teenage daughter's reading list for
the week.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:31 - ID#187109)
everything goes good with coke

wow. Of course not as good as most mining shares did this last week........... ( ?????? ) ...just kidding ;- )

buy gold

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:31 - ID#342397)
Donald @ who benefited from Mexican bailout.
Goldman Sachs and RR??
Studio_R, no doubt which way Texas would go. Sign me up.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:34 - ID#286230)
Japanese-made car imports skyrocket

May be using Canada to avoid U.S. uproar

Saturday, August 8, 1998
By Greg Keenan
Auto Industry Reporter

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:43 - ID#257136)
squirel-Appreciate your response.
Everything you said makes a lot of sense.

As a former groundpounder from 50-51-, I savvy all you've said.

BTW, My spouse, her sister and their mother ( 86yrs ) are going to Central City and Blackhawk today.From Brighton where they went to view our first Great Grandchild.
Poor li'l tyke!
His grandparents still believe the "OLD MAN" needlessly sacrificed some of his life and a whole lot of greenstamps as a part of the Patriotic movement in that area 19 to 25 years ago.
A shame we can't pass on the things we know for a surety to those we love.
Two of my children believe in all I did. Of the others, one is lukewarm and the other shrugged it all off.
To me their freedom was the thing paramount in my mind in everything I did and said for several years.
Most of my compadres are gone now, and none of us are physically active as we were then.
probably a good thing, as we shared many attitudes with you and grizz and mtn bear and others whose posts re-lite the banked fires of Patriotism and resistance to tyranny.
Better close for now as the lawn grew six inches since the rain ( first in 29 days ) we got last Monday.

To give the mother a good glimpse at God's country.

Glad things are not wild yet, as I do want them back!
Need cooks, etc. when chips are down.
There is one point you mentioned which I believe needs enlargement.
That one re: the groups of tough nuts who make it thru the passes.

The population density in the plains ( Denver environs ) ia very great per square mile.
As the scavengers and seekers move further from cities the density drops by a considerable amount. By the time they get to Avon or Blackhawk or anywhere else, their numbers per square mile will be VERY manageable by knowledgeable locals.
Since I am now in that den of iniquity --Mean, Arkansas, I will stay here.
Have networked with others, so feel more secure than if I were to return to CO. I wouldn't be too welcome now, as we've been gone for 17 years.

Formerly had around 2500 places which could have then been considered safe on east slope alone. Who knows what is out there now?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:47 - ID#257136)
Somehow the last three paragraphs of my post didn't make it.
Outta time now, so won't send them 'til later, if then.
Just got me another 200 rds for sks and 20 for the moisin special.
4x12x40. W/bipod and sporterized Monte carlo stock.
Just a toy.
Gonna go play for awhile.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:49 - ID#342376)
Latest Veneroso Report...
Veneroso Associates
John Brimelow William J. Murphy III Frank Veneroso
August 7, 1998

 The Gold Market
 If US Stocks Do Not Crash,
 We Expect an Asian Recovery That Will Be Positive for Gold

 Yesterday we listened to Bobby Godsell interviewed on CNBC. He made two key points.
) He was not particularly concerned about central bank selling. Such selling has held steady at 300 tonnes on average for years and the market was able to absorb it with little difficulty.
) He cited the Asian economic crisis as the major current problem for the gold market .
As the head of Anglogold, which produces 9% of the world's gold, Bobby Godsell should be better informed about official gold transactions than we are. We continue to believe there has been undisclosed EMU related official selling since the beginning of 1997 and that some such selling has probably occurred on the highs over the past four months. We hold this position because we have received numerous indications of such selling from very good sources. This week we have received two inputs which may support our position. Compared to our major inputs, these are straws in the wind, but they may be supportive of an end to such selling in the months ahead. We will comment on these "straws in the wind' if we come up with something more substantial.
Regarding Asia, we have taken a positive stance on Asia in our work for macroeconomic clients. We believe that all the countries in the region are adopting stimulative monetary and fiscal policies and are running large current account surpluses. We expect economic recovery in the region and appreciation of most of these currencies. Our guess is that the yen will rally and that China will not need to devalue. Currency stability and economic recovery in Asia will lead to improved global gold demand. Recovery in Asia will disappoint the "deflation trade" shorts in gold and lead to short covering.
We have one caveat regarding this outlook for reflation in Asia. The US stock market is a dangerous bubble that will eventually burst. Last week we received a shocking report from the US national account statisticians: the household savings rate in the US has been revised down to roughly 1%. Such a low saving rate is unprecedented for a major industrialized country. The US stock market bubble has apparently encouraged consumption to an unprecedented degree. When the stock market bubble in the US bursts, the ex ante saving rate in the US will rise sharply. In all likelihood, this will set in motion a significant consumer led US recession which would be deflationary to the global economy. The "internal dynamics" of the US stock market make us fear that the current decline in US stocks is more than "just a correction".
If US stocks decline and set off a US recession, it will hurt global gold jewelry demand. However, it should lead to a weak dollar. That should be positive for gold. Also, the Fed will move massively to reflate. Lower short term interest rates will reduce the gold contango and the incentive for the massive shorts in gold to remain short. It might also create some investor interest in gold. On balance, if the US stock market holds together, Asia will recover, which will be a positive for gold. If the US stock market falls sharply, it will reduce jewelry demand but should lead to covering of the massive shorts in gold.
To explain our position on Asia, the US stock market, the US savings rate and the threat of recession, we are posting on the library in our gold set of reports to macro clients on these subjects. They are available to gold service clients and will be posted for one week. 

Veneroso Associates:
All portions of this work, copyright 1998, all rights

(Sat Aug 08 1998 14:53 - ID#257136)
EB Ihave enjoyed majority of your post for months now.
Today, I began to wonder if you were loosing some of your intellect.
memory specifically.
The whole magilla re: Starr and his "attacks" on the pres were brought about because he was hired to do a job.
The blow job was not a major part of the investigation.
It is the lies the clown has told repeatedly and unashamedly as well as the other dishonesties which have sicced ol' Starr on him.
You would try to call off the hounds just as the bear is bayed and maybe lose the quary?
Shame on you for even thinking it!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 15:00 - ID#207145)
People aren't getting defensive are they? Coke botteling.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 15:06 - ID#207145)
You are a Clinton fan, you just don't have the guts to admit it.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 15:09 - ID#207145)
It makes you a far left wing liberal. How's the Disney doing?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 15:11 - ID#207145)
Sucker Rally
EB what are you buying?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 15:17 - ID#341312)
Two Parties?
SilverBear-We already have one party in control. I call them the Republicrats. They have two wings, right and left, which publicly bicker and argue over issues like abortion, affirmative action, etc. while slowly and inexorably destroying the Constitution. As long as this group remains in control, the slide will continue. See Claire Wolfe's "Amerika" essay at for further information on what the allegedly freedom loving Republican Congress has been up to. As far as the other wing, the Democrats, well it's kinda pointless to go into how incredibly anti-liberty these wacky guys 'n' gals are. The solution? Vote 3rd party. The Taxpayer's Party and my favorite, the Libertarian Party come to mind. It's not a cure-all but putting the fear of the ballot box back into politics is a good start. These arrogant public "servants" need to be reminded who's really the boss. Us. Come 1st quarter 2000 I suspect nearly all governments and politicians will have a bit of a credibility problem. I can feel my tears welling up already.....*sniff* Boo hoo hoo. ;- ) Btw, govt issued paper currencies of all types might suffer from the same confidence "deficit". Buy some physical. Like now. Cash on hand is pretty smart as well in case things turn out only moderately bad.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 15:41 - ID#43460)
a.j. and squirrel, don't count on it friends. You've been watching too much t.v.
IMHO Although if y2k or other disaster strikes there may be a short term wave of violence as looters etc meet the righteous indignation of the vast majority of middle class citizens ( as per the Korean shopkeepers in LA ) the same citizens will not stand for farming and travel through rural areas to be impeded by fringers.

IMHO Law and order as decided upon by the farmers, teachers, shopkeepers, etc of the communities will continue. People can tell who's crazy and who's a criminal and who's on the take so don't expect some wild Mad Max lifestyle. Expect a society very much like that before the bubble, say like the 1950's. More conservative ( real conservativism and not anything to do with socialist right/left labels ) , more locally governed and less tolerent of b.s. from wannabee dictators.

IMHO Expect people who 'hole up' in the country to either be good citizens, giving to their neighbors and communities and not excessively paranoid or expect them to be compost in short order. I'd expect them to be friendly to travelers for the simple reason that brigands of any stripe would not live long enough to be more than a good story around the campfire.

IMHO expect the citizens to actually be more wealthy as mega land holdings will be broken up rather quickly first by squatters then by state and local taxation liens. Corporate and government lands will go the way of the Medieval Church holdings, back to the community and coinage probably won't be debased for 50 years or so.

IMHO Think of today's society as a perversion of the Feudal system, with kingdoms ( Microsoftia?, nobility ( Jane, Duchess of Hanoi? ) , knights all out jousting and eating the peasants food ( various lawyers? ) , peasants ( you and me? ) . Think of the next few years as a Renaissance.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 15:44 - ID#287114)
fiveliter - 15:17
At the end of your post you state "cash on hand is pretty smart as well in case things turn out only moderately bad". To make such a statement on this forum may cause you to be severly reprimanded by the "far outs" who consider gold the financial saviour of the world.
After your castration and prior to being hanged, you may make the final statement that in the last great depression cash was king. May you enjoy life in the hereafter.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 15:44 - ID#206172)
comex silver stockpiles
Could someone please provide some upto date Comex stock pile numbers? I am trying to keep some records of what is happening with the above ground stockpile.

Your assistance is appreciated.

King Steven

(Sat Aug 08 1998 15:54 - ID#222231)
If it waddles like a duck and it quaks like a duck, it's a ?
This one is for JTF and other non believers. Tolerant1 and mozel will love this one. Long read but well worth it.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 15:55 - ID#207145)
You may be getting fat on what you think you know. Cash is the only way to go. I don't trust mutual funds either.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 15:56 - ID#429121)
Hmmm... A .45 for some silver Eagles?

Have I got a deal for you!

Wish I had some customers who would pay in those things!

BACK - tolurkingandhuntingforthebestdealsonsilvereagles

(Sat Aug 08 1998 15:59 - ID#411112)
ROR...You are a lawyer in be honest what Ken Starr is doing to Bill is no difference to how

DA's,US to folks everyday in
Americas say you do pro bono
stuff for the poor you are well
aware of the fact he is doing nothing
different......and I will also agree that
when one is charged with a crime unless you
are capable of coming up hunderds if not
millions of dollars freedom and fairness is a
myth......the reaon a lot of people are made
with Starr is because they have just found
out how the system works....and it whos fault is the way it could not of happenec to a nicer guy than Bill :- )

(Sat Aug 08 1998 16:00 - ID#287114)
Thats what I am trying to tell you.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 16:19 - ID#288369)
@saturday night in O'tay Corral.....throwin' some lead..........
and shootin' some tequila!!!!!! ( be sure and hang long enough for the muzac to download ) . yeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaa!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 16:20 - ID#288369)
@sorry,left out the url..

(Sat Aug 08 1998 16:34 - ID#388209)
The Farmers in the Dell
The credit boom starts to rise !
The USD & S&P starts to rise!
The worlds reserves flow in &
the Trade deficit starts to rise !
The market & the USD goes kaboom !
And all falls down !



Charles Keeling
(Sat Aug 08 1998 16:35 - ID#344225)
@ EB RE: Our President WJC
Your post surprises me ! The press is persuing the sexual aspect
of Ken Starr's investigation. But---beneath all of the sex is perjury, subornation of perjury, abuse of power, stonewalling, obstruction of justice, witness tampering, and just possibly----TREASON.

Are you an American? I thought your posts come from Australia. Correct me if I am wrong about this. I am sure that you have not followed the
CHINA connection and it's implications, else you wouldn't be posting
articles like yur last post on Clinton.

We have a huge problem here in the USA. Clinton is taking freedom away
from Arericans daily. He is a criminal who is being protected by the
AG who he personally sought out and appointed because he knew he could control her based on her own past misconduct that is not widely known.

Janet is a bull dyke lesbian who is still in the closet. Clinton knows all about this, and she is knuckling uder in order to save her own skin.
Corruption runs DEEP in Clintons cabinet. How many have been jailed???
How many more have fled office in order to escape the spotlight??
How many are now under indictment?

Clinton is a pervasive liar. He has fooled many simple minded American voters. He has smoked pot; but didn't inhale. He has had sex in the
Oval Office; but claims that he did not, since he doesn't consider
oral sex to be a sexual relationship. He dodged the draft; but is now commander in chief of the armed forces. He has divided the American people along sexual and racial lines in order to get votes needed to win the Presidency. He sold out his own country by taking contributions from the Chinese military in exchange for American top secrets. One of his top cabinet officials in charge of Foreign Business Relations was under a pending indictment when he was mysteriously killed in a plane crash.
He had threatned to "not go down alone" over his past misdeeds. Had he lived, he would have been a whistle blower much like Linda Tripp.

The head of NSA, Foster, died of a convienent suicide. He had all of the details on Whitewater in his safe. This information was taken in the middle of the night by the Presidents people.

I believe that Ken Starr is trying to force Clinton to resign from office over a sexual affair with a 21 year old intern in order to same America from going through a traumatic ordeal: the "trial of a sitting President for treason".

He ran for office with a slogan: "It's the economy stupid". Since winning office, he has used tax payer money to support wall street by determining who would be Winners & Losers. This is manipulation of the economy. This has been done through AG & RR using Fed funds. Substantial amounts of taxpayer money has been spent buying futures in order to prop up the markets. So much so, that we now have a "bubble
economy" here in the good old USA. This "bubble economy" has now reached the level of 1929. WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO FREE PRIVATE ENTERPRISE? Market forces have NOT prevailed since his time in office.

How does this tie in to GOLD? When Clinton goes, the markets will come back into balance. If the markets don't very soon come into balance, we are going to see a crisis unlike any seen since 1929.

I appreciate anyones right to their own opinion. It's just that I think that you have to look deeper at the present problem, rather that to dismiss it at jus a sexual picadilo.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 16:37 - ID#342376)
@ Pete
I'm sure there is something to the "Illuminati" but that article has as much propaganda as the group they are trying to expose. Some time ago I read an article about George Soros. It was called something like "Soros, Rothschilds and Evil Incarnate" It had some similar points. I did a search on it. I thought I'd post a link on Kitco as a followup to your link. The internet search came up with the link but I can't get on the site. Interesting huh? Weekends at Kitco, plenty of time for conspiracy theories.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 16:40 - ID#57232)
The Myths of the Great Depression
Mole: Your 10:44 post makes alot of sense. If I understand correctly, FDR reacted to the depression by nationalizing many businesses, as well as by setting up public works to generate jobs. Generally the global regulatory actions of governments to 'solve' economic problems make them worse. And, the public will naively look the other way if the leader is popular.
I do not know enough history to critically evaluate the period of the depression, but I always wondered why the depression lasted as long as it did -- virtually all the way to the beginning of World War II. I know FDR was popular, but I suspect that if World War II had not come along to really get the US economy going again, he would have been alot less popular.
In my opinion, governments should only function in the role of national defense, and setting up very simple rules of trade so that individuals do not take advantage of one other. The less government the better. And all government agency charters should automatically expire after xxx number of years, instead of growing like cancer. We now have agnecies fighting among one another as to who has juridiction, and the US government consumes 1/3 of the GNP with no discernable product except military defense.
In retrospect, we probably did need a charismatic, spirited person like FDR to lead us out of the depression. But he would have done much better had he not nationalized businesses, but rather stimulated private enterprise instead. Unfortunately, during wartime I suspect that certain businnesses would have to be nationalized, even with the efficiencies generated.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 16:46 - ID#288369)
@Chas. Keeling.......your Clitton appraisal........
uh huh.....a print!!!! G&P to YA!!! Salud Maximus!!! hip. hip. hoooorah.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 16:54 - ID#57232)
The Illuminati
Pete: Your 15:54. I don't know if I would be considered a 'non-believer' because I will read anything. However, I cannot be considered a believer either. Just as I don't believe every word uttered by that crazy Lyndon Larouche who believes the Queen of England is a drug runner. Every so often he does say something interesting, but he sure makes it hard to know when to believe what he says.

One clue I have learned about the truth of something is the number of times words are highlighted, enlarged, or underlined. It is often a warning sign. This time the highlighting quotient is well over 20%. I would suggest that you do a little looking into the background of the author, as well as find other independent sources of reading material.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 17:05 - ID#57232)
Logging off for chores
All: Did you see that the Clinton lawyers finally convinced a Federal Judge that the Kenneth Starr group was leaking news? Now he could be in contempt of court, if he does not respond adequately.
What really irritates me is that KS probably did leak a few juicy items -- how else can he deal with those spinmeisters where leaks are the order of the day -- with the exception of the private notes/conversations of federally employed lawyers in the White House?
I find it ludicrous that national security has been perverted to mean only the personal behind the scenes machinations of the president. The concept of a security clearance is meaningless to him. Why bother? Just think about what a loyal American working for the NSA,CIA,FBI,etc., must feel like these days.

Well, on the other hand -- just wait till Janet Reno gets in hotter water about the Campaigngate business, and Rehnquist torpedoes WJC's petition for lawyerly executive priveledge. At least there still are some honest people left in our government.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 17:11 - ID#189268)
charles keeling/Clinton
I couldn't agree with with you more. I beleive that Starr's report will bring all these issues into light. Then the Clinton supporters will turn as his approval ratings go down the drain. People will say to themselves if we only knew. I would add one more point to your excellent list. The markets always go up when Clinton speaks. I have watched this phenomenon occur time and time again. Is this majic? It is part of the bubble RR and AG have created and cannot escape without major pain. The next few months will be very telling.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 17:21 - ID#57232)
WJC Impeachment
Charles Keeling: I think you are right that the Monicagate situation is just the tip of the iceberg. Our current President may not intentionally have created the 'open door' policy approach to our defense secrets to achieve his political gains, but this topic is a serious matter indeed. The focal person in all of this -- Ron Brown -- coming to an unusually well-timed untimely death certainly raises ones suspicions as well. I find it interesting that the investigation of the Commerce department is still going on. We never did find out why that poor woman who worked for Ron Brown and John Huang was killed behind securely locked doors within the Commerce building, and why Ron Brown's lawyer associate died mysteriously within days of RB's death.
I suspect that many individuals within the government know about these things, but cannot publicly say anything. They must wait until the right moment to come forward when they are no longer in the minority. Like those 4 forensic pathologists who witnessed Ron Brown's autopsy, and got punished for saying what they thought was the truth. Their time will come.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 17:27 - ID#57232)
For the legal eagles from Matt Drudge
All: Excerpts from the Court order on the K Starr Grand Jury investigation leaks. Apparently this is a 'limited' investigation only -- whatever that means.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 17:34 - ID#57232)
Susan McDougal's Opinion of Monica Lewinsky
All: I wonder what Zubin Mehta thinks of Susan McDougal's honesty. I wonder why the spin doctors never ask him anything -- just someone already convicted of at least one crime.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 17:36 - ID#57232)
Logging off for real --
Before the 'real boss' comes home and finds me here, instead of doing chores. G'Nite all!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 17:37 - ID#401460)
Pete, The Illuminati

I don't know how much of this kind of stuff I believe, but I have to admit, that over the years I have found some very interesting correlations and matchups.

Clinton's background and the people around him fit into many conspiracy theories very well.


"Do you know who owns and controls our mass communications media? I'll tell you. Practically all the movie lots in Hollywood is owned by the Lehmans; Kuhn, Loeb, and Company; Goldman-Sachs; and other internationalist bankers.

Secretary of the Treasury: Robert Rubin Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs.

"That gives you an idea what a "Rhodes scholarship" means. It means indoctrination into accepting the idea that only a one-world government can put an end to recurring wars and strife.

Clinton is a Rhodes Scholar.

Clinton Roosevelt, a direct ancestor of Franklin Roosevelt
US equivalent ofEnglands House of Jardine - trade with China, Opium Wars etc.

Mazzini had enticed an American General named Albert Pike into the Illuminati. Pike was fascinated by the idea of a one-world government and ultimately he became the head of this luciferian conspiracy. Between 1859 and 1871 he, Pike, worked out a military blueprint for three world wars and various revolutions throughout the world which he considered would forward the conspiracy to its final stage in the 20th century. Again I remind you that these conspirators were never concerned with immediate success. They also operated on a long-range view. Pike did most of his work in his home in Little Rock, Arkansas. ..

Clinton is from Little Rock
Winthrope Rockefeller & Family are from Little Rock.
Republicans who got Clinton out of draft.

There is a lot more that ties together, but this is just a sampling.

I don't know if it is the Illuminati, Tri-Lateral Commission, Club of Rome, etc or what. We do know that these relationships exist, how much control they have on one another I am not sure we know. In Rockefellers vs. Rothschilds who wins? Are they on the same team all of the time.


(Sat Aug 08 1998 17:39 - ID#263254)
Golden Cheesehead
I'm right behind 'ya on the BIS call for out and out purchases
at or below $280. My question is where were they Jan 9-13 of this
year when it dipped below 280 and lingered for 4.5 days? ( the 10th-11th
was a weekend ) Just want your 2 cents and others who follow the same

(Sat Aug 08 1998 17:45 - ID#255151)

Getting ready to go to the Red Onion in Sheridan, IN. Got some friends from work who have a band called Just For Kicks. I am the unofficial roady/manager. They mostly play Blues. Also do some Cajun/Zydeco. Gonna be a big crowd from work there. The gloves will be off for a bigtime celebration. I am claiming immunity in advance for any posts made at Kitco tonight when I get back. Go Gold!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 17:46 - ID#433172)
I lived thru the depression of the thirties for the most part in am industrial zone ( Rockford, Ill ) ...doesn't get much more industrial than that. My father was a machinist and out of work until about 1935, on WPA for a time before that. Then came the union fights, he enjoyed it.

We alawys had hamburger on the table...everyone I knew did..milk ..all the good things including Xmass.We alawys had a CAR..We certainly lived in the poor zone but I never saw any grevious poverty. Doctors sometimes worked for free or very reasonable fees, everybody had health care..Everybody. Food was cheap.

Nowdayspeople are in much worse shape who don't have the..means. The professions have zeroed in on health insurance and food is priced for the affluent. The people on the bottom of that economic pile were a lot better off than the ones under this one.

Fishermen here in SE Alaska are selling troll caught silver salmon for $.80 / lb, corn is a little over $2.00 / bushel, it must be some kind of a joke...tomatoes are $2.00/lb. The handlers of commodities are upping the prices by a factor of 5-6 times over farmer prices..just like Japan only this is supposed to bne a free market economy.

I'm not so afraid of a good depression ala 1930's, we had a cohesive society then. The problem is now mobney is the prime factor holding this thing together, the people on the bottom are far less disiplined..still..we could probably muddle thru one if our professional army stayed off our backs.

There is a great danger in falling into socialism and federal dictatorship, the corporatiuons would play along as they are now. The best chance for the little man is to tell government to stuff it. Fight our own battles..don't call the cops, the army, the air force,or mother superior.

They never called the cops where I was rasied..nor would they have come except in was a perfectly safe place to grow up.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 17:50 - ID#252150)
I'm not reassured or comforted by this excerpt from Barron's
They will screw up, as they have always screwed up from time immemorial:

To have a stock-market meltdown beyond the garden variety bear market
would imply the occurrence of some sort of calamity in the general economy.
And few see the latter possibility. In fact in the past several weeks, both MIT
economist Rudi Dornbusch and well-known Wall Street observer Larry
Kudlow have weighed in with op-ed pieces in The Wall Street Journal
asserting that American policymakers now have the sophistication and
free-market orientation to avoid the obvious gaffes in monetary and fiscal
policy that have proved so damaging in the past. Ergo, one shouldn't lose too
much sleep over the stock market.

IMO, they are just a bunch of bumbling bureaucats who will lose control of the mkts, & their policies & tactics, which are becoming more transparent daily, will exacerbate the situation immeasurably. We will all pay for their unwarranted hubris.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 17:50 - ID#57232)
I'll add my 1cents
Bingo: Remember the stories about the 'Big Trader' about a year ago? The story was that he and others were profiting from the low gold price, and buying gold to stash it, as I recall. I would guess that the strongest reason for gold not to go down much more is that I'm pretty sure that some of the world's CB's realize that if too much gold is taken out of the control of the CB's hands, the CB's will lose all control in the distant future.
So the most likely sequence of events is that the BIS buys the cheap gold, either for itself, or 'acts as a buyer' for other CB's. My guess is that $280/oz, give or take a few ounces, is the chosen price. Even if this is not the threshold price for the BIS to buy, the basic concept still holds, as this is exactly what the BIS did in the 70's when the 'Gold pool' fell apart. Antony C. Sutton, where are you?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:09 - ID#57232)
George_A: I am too young to know about the depression, but my dad and my grandfather survived it. It was generally peaceful, despite the hard times, because everyone know what was theirs and what was not. And, the poorest people knew how to live off the land. A cushion to keep body and soul together.
Unfortunately, now the cities of this country have millions of people that have forgotten how to grow crops, to forage for food, or how to really look for a job. The government in its infinite wisdom has taken them off the land, and placed them in an environment where there is no backup if the system fails, and the welfare checks or the food supply dries up.
I am amazed by the way how cheap salmon is in Alaska. I remember seven dollars a pound in Seattle more than 5 years ago. Guess the middleman is making all the profits. This is what I was referring to the other day -- the 'acquisitors' are sucking away the wealth of the middle class. This cycle has happened probably a hundred times in human history and will happen again. Eventually the 'people' -- the middle class will not be able to make ends meet, and will rise up. This time it will be nowhere near as peaceful as it was during the great depression.
It is fortunate that we are experiencing the information revolution right now -- giving a cushion to our economy. Without this things would become much worse.
I must keep reminding myself how exciting this time period is -- that we are experiencing a revolution as wondrous as the industrial revolution right now. It is hard to remember that when you see the potential for turmoil and human suffering around you.
My guess it that in Alaska -- it will not be too hard for you. But LA and New York and the other big cities will have a hard time of it. It will make the Watts riots look like a picnic.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:10 - ID#335184)
JTF Thanks for the tag to Judge Johnson's Ruling.
This opinion is based on rank hearsay which cannot be disproven because the ist Amendment will shield the pond scum in the media from saying or attributing any thing they want to. The rest of the opinion is based on flawed legal reasoning that you could drive a truck through. There is no "prima Facia" showing that the leaks are authorized & the Court is just way out of bounds to say that a prosecutor can not speak to the press about things learned through invvestigators that have not yet been presented to the grand jury. The staement to the press commenting on an Order of the Court covered by a "Gag Order about a matter that was already in the public domain is deserves a silly slap on the wrist, but nothing more.& nothing more than the lawyers & the Boy Prez do with great frequency ! It reads as if written by a drop out from a shade tree night law school & if not lodged in pure ignorance, tinged by democrat bias, I'd have to say constitutes intmidation & tampering with a Federal investigation & therefor obstruction of justice !
The proper remdy for Starr is not just an appeal, but a writ of mandamus from the D.C. Circuit to halt this abuse of judicial authority.
This is a tempest in a legal demi-cup & Judge Holloway better move on before she winds up in the trash heap of history with the rest of Billery apologists.



(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:12 - ID#373284)
vronsky, namaste' One World Order my American and mine ain't that welll
edjuuuucaaaaaaaaaaaaaay-ted, the brick shit_heads, masons and the Illuminati...oh my, what a bunch of liars and without question men and women without honor...none, none at all...they represent nothing...nothing...

F_uck them..., actually they confront me and mine I will grind them into the ground and leave the field for the dead to eat...Vultures will stay away from such garbage...

Do you think that throughout history these scumbags have not been followed and known...

Fuc_ Royalty and the Queens of England...and I mean QUEENS...

Nuff said...

Be AN more, no less...truly a state of mind...bless the children who have not been categorized.......nuff said...wake up!!!!!!!!!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:17 - ID#57232)
Thanks for the clarification
newtron: Good to hear that K Starr is not really in danger of losing control. Now -- I'd really better get to my chores before the 'real boss' comes home!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:18 - ID#288369)
@Auric.....road manager to the stars..........
ROCK ON, DaddyO! Tear the house down...turn 'er up to eleven and tear their heads off. Have no fear logging on later...gonna' take ya' higher!

A Gulp...A Gulp....A Gulp....aNOTHER Please! yes.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:20 - ID#288369)
I don't say this enuff to YA!!! Thanks for all your work...and i really dig your PHYSICS riff...It's the most. G&P! to YA!! toooocoooool.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:23 - ID#288369)
Tell it like it always was. amen. G&P to YA!!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:25 - ID#288369)
Drop da' bomb baby.....let 'er rip. tell us more.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:27 - ID#288369)
@hup two three.....
studio enlisting into the New England Regiment of Patriots. Hand me my gun mama, I gotta' go.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:30 - ID#335184)
Stud- R For More see my Petite Opus Godzilla Rant @ 08/07 @ 04:47 Si vu ple !

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:32 - ID#335184)
Stud, also see08/07 @ 05:49

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:36 - ID#431263)
The fact that it was only down there for 2-3 business days before taking off for $300+ is enough evidence for me! $280 is the rough support area give or take a couple of bucks!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:37 - ID#252150)
Micheal Murphy's@comments about Y2K
I know zilch about computers, & in fact despise them because of the amount of wasted time I spend seeking out worthless info that only contributes to the dismal performance of my portfolio. I particularly despise Bill Gates & echo Aurator's wish that I could perform an illegal operation on him. In 96 when I kept charts by hand my portfolio went up 120%. Last year down 40% & this year so far down 15% despite being up 20% in my au stock trades.

Anyway, FWIW, I made a few brief notes of Murphy's thoughts on Y2K. He was interviewed on a Vancouver financial radio talk show this morning.
As most of you are probably aware he puts out a hi tech stock newsletter.
You may not be aware that he is an old cobol programmer.

He seems fairly sanguine. Says that most fortune 500 Corps are well along in their Y2K progams & cites GM as a Y2K success story. They completed thier program last year well ahead of schedule & under budget. He feels that most big Corps are taking the easy solution & changing from the old mainframe legacy systems to client server systems. He sees this trend escalating. For anyone interested, he recommends Informix as a major beneficiary of this trend. Apparently, the stock has been beaten up lately but he feels that it is a solid IT Co. that will do well because of their contracts, many years after Y2K.

What I found surprising was that he feels that the IRS has virtually given up on being Y2K compliant.
I have a problem understanding how the Gov't can function without all the billions of $ of taxes coming in on a regular basis. Do they really have that much confidence in the American taxpayer's honesty & docility? Maybe they will have to go back to manual systems. That would certainly take care of the remaining 4.5% unemployment. Of course, there are always all those millions of Chinese with their abacuses.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:38 - ID#373284)
hMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM..........................STUDIO_R...this far east we think
the same...Al Gore and his family represent nothing more than the battle cry...NOTHING SUCKS LIKE A BIG...ORANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:42 - ID#234218)
Maybe the government doesn't want to be Y2K compliant. It would sure make a good "fall guy". Percieved crisis is better than no crisis at all.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:44 - ID#288369)
It is my great honor to have read your words here@kitco. God bless you and yours. We must take the fight to them. G&P to YA!!! we march.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:52 - ID#288369)
If Al Gore had been born to my family, my dear departed Father would have beat him to death in a vain effort to beat some sense into him. And my dear Mother would have tended to his carcass....and then he would have been forgotten.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:55 - ID#287114)
Go to yahoo and punch in Prince Hall.
Many gulps and a chug a lug.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:55 - ID#234218)
Studio R
Any chance they would have pushed him out of a moving car while driving through Tennessee??

(Sat Aug 08 1998 18:57 - ID#288369)
My Dad would have backed the car up and run over him to make sure the damn rattler was dead. He didn't believe in half-ass.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 19:07 - ID#335184)
Stud, Yes mon a mi, we march at dawn ! Red, the color of angry dawn ! Black the color of angry men !
Le Misarables who have Gold will persevere to a happy & just end !
Thanks for your kind words of encouragement & Rock Steady !



(Sat Aug 08 1998 19:12 - ID#288369)
@DNA tests will reveal........
that the residue is chicken sperm. Then we will have the little clucker.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 19:17 - ID#234218)
Understand! There's no substitute for being thorough.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 19:33 - ID#252150)
Snowball@You give the bureaucrats too much credit.
They could'nt plan a gang bang in a Mexican whorehouse.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 19:34 - ID#335184)
There is no use beating OwlGore up ! He's made of pure tulip poplar, the state tree & the hard wood capital of the world ( Remember
"Old Hichory " ? But he was a good Tenneessee nut ! ) & his knoggin is full of pudden & saw dust like the Scare Crow that he is. Don't forget little campers, the automobile is the greatest threat to allllll human existance & the ozone is scary scary too ! Like the Tin Man, he has no heart. The breast of this action hero photographer from the vietnam war is hollow. ( What would you give to see his war wounds & pictures of Mai Lie sp?. I'll bet he believes in the legend in his mind that he lived through that night mare baby ! ) Like the Frightened Lyon, this former tobacco farmer & subsidy hound recipient is a coward who even exploits the pathetic cancer death of his own sister to spread his rants of deception & hypocracy !
The only good that has come from these two, is their expatriation from their respective states & therefor blessed consolation & relief to the long suffering good people of Arkansaw & Tenneessee who were too fleckless to rid themselves of these parasites by their own exertions.but at such a price !
God Bless the 1st Stooge. God Bless every one !



(Sat Aug 08 1998 19:46 - ID#288369)
@this bears repeating..........the Scare Crow..........yes.
newtron ( Stud ) ID#335184:
There is no use beating OwlGore up ! He's made of pure tulip poplar, the state tree & the hard wood capital of the world ( Remember
"Old Hichory " ? But he was a good Tenneessee nut ! ) & his knoggin is full of pudden & saw dust like the Scare Crow that he is. Don't forget little campers, the automobile is the greatest threat to allllll human existance & the ozone is scary scary too ! Like the Tin Man, he has no heart. The breast of this action hero photographer from the vietnam war is hollow. ( What would you give to see his war wounds & pictures of Mai Lie sp?. I'll bet he believes in the legend in his mind that he lived through that night mare baby ! ) Like the Frightened Lyon, this former tobacco farmer & subsidy hound recipient is a coward who even exploits the pathetic cancer death of his own sister to spread his rants of deception & hypocracy !
The only good that has come from these two, is their expatriation from their respective states & therefor blessed consolation & relief to the long suffering good people of Arkansaw & Tenneessee who were too fleckless to rid themselves of these parasites by their own exertions.but at such a price !
God Bless the 1st Stooge. God Bless every one !

(Sat Aug 08 1998 19:49 - ID#288369)
A Gulp...A YA!!!!! a job well done.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 19:55 - ID#187109)
doesn't take much.......
to stir this pot.....

ya'all crack me up...........'cept those people who bloop in public................I ignore them........'tis rude.

and to those who question my are assuming I have one......................uh huh.

studioR&Tol#1.....agulp..............apuff......... 'have a coke and a smile'


SELL ALL EQUITIES AND BUY GOLD..........NOOOOOOOOOW! ( should I use the Sheller DisClaimer ) ( ?? ) ...

(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:02 - ID#288369)
@EBad to da bone..........
A gulp....a one of my rare, however, non-metallic idols. The yawn of my frustration ebbs into the easy, comfortable flow of rum y coke y lime and in the midst of a lovely swoon from a certain frank from hoboken. Salud Maximillunious. your pal, studio.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:07 - ID#187109)
don't spill any mi amigo....wouldn't want to be callin alcohol abuse ;-^ )

you eatin some hebrewnationals??

saw MJ on the course AGAIN yesterday. he's been in SB for two weeks now..... ( EBbowingdown ) .....he's got a mean game goin' on.


(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:07 - ID#288369)
@station break....... a bit.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:11 - ID#288369)
@EBogey.....make that a double...bogey dat is............'re in eden, pard. Fidel is to be Forgotten History...Cuba Libre!!!! a gulp to ya...lini's hungry....a hebrewnational perhaps? bbl.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:13 - ID#257148)
as a stirrer I resent the implication that I can be stirred, sir.

Your 11:04 has left an indelible impression on me. The story and experience shall pass on. Thanks to you and your grandma. She taught well.

Thanks for offer, feel free to show me your etchings! I have been taking the New York Institute of Photography's most excellent course of study, URL courtesy of the uniquely tolerant1 who lives on the long one.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:26 - ID#234218)
@ James
Never underestimate the minds in government. When it comes to their own self-interest or saving their own necks they can be as intelligent, cunning and creative as anyone. When it comes to serving and protecting AMERICA and her people it's difficult to find a collective brain among them. With one or two occasional exceptions.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:27 - ID#187109)
Aurator - ya can't bullsh!t a bullh!tter either........abigPuff to ya...

StudioRum - I am pouring a CaptainMorgan Cuba Libre in your honor sir........ABURP to ya! and it is not true regarding ManWithoutMetal. I have more than ten gold coins two platinum ones and twenty-odd silver ones.........and a whole buncha copper ones.............ya see....I gotta get to the bank to turn in some pennies.........ohmy! make popcorn for the drive-in movies..........Zorro&Doolitle are the features...........I must get my mind offa this WJC thingy.....
gonnagetJiggyWithItinthebackseat ( ! )

(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:29 - ID#187109)
one more thingy

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....which way........A.........

(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:31 - ID#261118)
buy high...sell low.... A man from my Church came into my shop today and sold me
a "little gold". Two kilos of it to be precise. He's a fellow about 65 years old and informed me that he had bought them over twenty years ago at 400 an ounce or so and that they ( the kilos ) had done him precious good all this time so he had his cap set to sell the lot. Being a fellow Lutheran I told him it was my opinion that he was selling at a twenty year low and perhaps should keep the yellow stuff "just in case", to wit he replied "I'm old and I'm tired of worrying about it",.
Sometimes here at this site ( tis by no means without company ) , I see how,in the final analysis,we simply lack patience; conviction. We forget we are mortal and are her but a finite number of years; and in that number we must make our mark, our decissions and our lives count for whatever they will.
For what it's worth I now have two nice kilo bars to add to my growing stock of bullion and I wonder how that fellow will fare as the dollar takes it's leave, as it must eventually in the twilight of this century.
The old Chinese saying "here's hoping you live in interesting times" is sure to be our allegiant companion....


(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:37 - ID#335184)
Petite Opus # II
Too simple & too stupid too !

Hear me now & belive me later !

Gold is the only real money. As such, it is the only true barometor & measure of the value of money. As long as fiat money, either paper or electronic, is accepted as a medium of exchange & the interest rate is allowed to reflect the true componets of interest ( A ) , the time value of money discounted ; + B ) , a default risk premium ; C ) , the inflation anticipation premium ) there is little demand to hold physical Gold as in periods when a true Gold standard is in affect. The maximum appeal for Gold comes when the interest rate is artificially depressed or is held below the rate of rise of real interest rates. Gold is fiat paper's keenest competitor & as the barometor of the value of money it will take off best in periods of stag/flation as in the 70s.
The Fed is caught between the headlights of world wide deflation / debt destruction & massive world wide production over capacity. Raise rates & you suck the remaining free reserves into a black hole & the world further implodes as the USD strangles the last american export. The trade deficit is on track to blow the lid off $300 billion ast the cuurent USD level! Lower rates & you Throttle the US economy & boom the stock market into hypper bubble, deflate the USD & knock the props out from under a stock market which will have already been launched into the
stratosphere !
We are headed shortly for massive stagflation. The credit boom has created a "new era" economy. The stock market boom has been fueled by the fact all loose change of America & now from abroad, instaead of finding its' way into piggy banks & productive investments has sloshed into the S&P. This has fueled a wealth effect illusion funded by the credit high that consumers feel when they think their "savings" are compounding @
33 % per annum. In effect, they are living off 125% 2nd mortgages from Diteck Funding ( "Buy a 2nd home, join a country club, jump on a hot
stock ! That's smart money from Diteck....Yeah right ! ) which should be their bed rock security for retirement like it was for the last generation & instaed, it is poured into the S&P & spent before it is redeemed !
The trade deficit will very shortly reverse the levitation act known as the USD. This in turn will crash the S&p & the wealth effect mirage disappearance will tank the US economy into a recession that will be remembered as a great depression if USG policy attemts to inflate our way out. The inflation part of the double whammy is already baked into the world cake structure through irresponsible M3 growth & cronic USG budget deficits sine 1984 the last time that all this was cleaned out of the system by Volcker's 20%+ interest rate spike.
It is standing like a great resivoir in the form of USD reserves, US Treasuries & the 70% of all USDs, that are held off shore & will come screaming home when the USD starts going down hill.

The POG drop of the last two years is the natural response of Gold's function as a natural barometor of the world wide deflation that is sweeping the world, crushing credit with defaults & lowering prices through the mechanisim of over supply.The AU/$ lease carry trade of some 8000 Tons is not the cause of this fall' but the lowering of demand by the increase of its cost in all the worlds' currencies except the USD ! The CB's AU/$ lease carry trade has merely agravated this natural secular megatrend & it will be thrown down lie a flea when the stagflation described above is unleashed on the world.
Get ready , the watch man is at the door !

God Bless the child that's got GOLD !



(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:39 - ID#242303)
@ ye die hard gold buffs...
What exactly will be the impetus for the long awaited, much prayed and so far illusory gold rally.

Will it be that another 30 billion will be wiped off stocks AND so....

Will it be that the Central banks of Europe suddenly have a mass change of Heart and they will keep the gold stuff.

Will it be that the Swiss admit it was all a mistake and they will contimue to keep all their Gold.

Will it be a Russian collapse so the Russians will cash in their Rubles and Dollars for the metal.

Or of course their is the Y2K scenario. As ATM's across the country fial and Bank statements get screwed up. the masses will run to but golden eagles with whatever cash they have lying around. If things get very bad people won't want to sell the basic necessities of life for useless money, but they will be happy to exchange it for gold which has many well-known uses apart from decoration.

It has taken many thousands of dollars of losses to bring my mind to this point, what's your excuse.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:41 - ID#334155)
Hi from the lost redneck corner of the world
JTF, do you know anything about undergroung uranium ore
mining.? As far as I'm concerned this would have to be one
hell of a job with radon levels being so high as to be
almost impossible to elim inate from the work environment.
Gold and full moons, oh dear! Go Gold.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 20:50 - ID#424394)
Klinton can't allow a DNA test on himself
Because he is not human - he is the anti-christ's cuzzin.
( He is not evil enough to be the anti-christ itself )

Good to see that some in this outfit are armed to the teeth!

Defensive stuff like shotguns, riotguns, 45's, UZI's, & claymores
fer close-in combat with rioters, looters, and similar varmints
during general chaos and anarchy in town/city built-up jungles
Offensive stuff like AR15's, AK47's, 30-06's and Stingers
fer invaders coming over hill 'n dale & through the woods
or fer search & destroy missions during a general revolution

So many choices - not enough money!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:03 - ID#284255)
Y2k Weatherman
The "Y2k gospel" according to the Y2k Weatherman has always been:

( 1 ) Get right with God
( 2 ) Prepare physically ( security, water and food )
( 3 ) Protect your financial assets

I am here to address the final point, and I've never minded being #3
in the batting order. In fact, I prefer it, because I can see what
kind of stuff the pitcher has as he squares off against the first
couple of batters. The parallel is that by now, most of you have seen
the Y2k pitcher throw his 4 favorite pitches ignorance, denial,
acceptance and despair. You know his repertoire, so you have gained
the upper hand. Now you are making the proper spiritual and physical
sustenance preparations, and resolving to take action with your

In the abstract, Y2k is forcing us to make a series of insurance
decisions as we start to prepare for the inevitable disruptions to our
lives. In normal times, we purchase life insurance because we know
we'll die someday; we purchase health insurance because we know we'll
get sick one day; and we purchase Y2k insurance because we know that
Y2k is coming and it is certain to disrupt our lives...possibly in
unprecedented ways.

Would it be smart to live in San Francisco or Los Angeles and not
carry extra insurance for earthquake damage? Would it be smart to
live on the Carolina or Gulf Coast and not carry extra insurance for
hurricane damage? At least with Y2k, we can always cancel the
insurance when we feel that the worst has come and gone. The
challenge is that insurance has its price tag and sometimes is
difficult to obtain even if you can afford it. The reality is that we
can't buy a Y2k policy from our friendly Farmers agent, so we have to
construct our own policies.

President Clinton has given us the long-awaited magic date of March
31, 1999 to purchase the bulk of our Y2k insurance. That is the date
when the President expects the US Govt to be ready. When April 1,
1999 arrives and the US Govt is not ready, you'll hear it loud and
clear from the likes of Senator Bennett, Congressman Horn,
Presidential Candidate Forbes, and panic will start to set in. The
news media will accentuate this panic with their tabloid headlines and
TV sound bites. Up until the President's speech last week, Y2k news
in the media was a trickle. Now it is a stream. On April 1, 1999 it
will become a river and by October 1, 1999 it will become a flood.

So, the window of preparedness can be expected to remain relatively
wide open until March 31, 1999, and it will slowly close in the
ensuing months. It will permanently close between the river and the
flood stage, because the US Govt will not let the chance of a bank run
occur. We can only guess what the US Govt will do in this instance.
My personal bet is that the US Govt will introduce currency rationing
at some critical juncture and declare private hoarding of essential
commodities as very unpatriotic. This is the scarcity scenario. The
futures markets will tell the real story by mid-1999. My greater
fear is that the US Govt will flood the banks and their ATM machines
with unprecedented new supplies of banknotes in order to allay fears
of shortages. This is the inflationary scenario. The bond markets
will tell the real story by late 1999.

In times of approaching crisis, investment assets need to be liquid,
portable, storable, and function as a store of wealth and/or as a
medium of exchange. Will your Microsoft stock be liquid? Will your
bags of junk silver coins be portable and storable? How will you pay
for things or get what you need? Will people maintain their
confidence in the current fiat money system, or will precious metals
resume their historical role as the preferred store of wealth?
Remember it used to be IN GOLD WE TRUST.
Then, one of our presidents decided to drop the L from GOLD and gave us IN GOD WE TRUST. This is the secret code word for governments being able to print and mint currency out of thin air, which is their true source of power in a materialistic world.

I ask you all to make the distinction between store of wealth and
medium of exchange. A store of wealth is a means by which to maintain
or enhance one's purchasing power. Think of this in terms of an ounce
of gold or one share of Microsoft stock, and how many of them are
needed to purchase a home, a car, a computer, a year's worth of labor,
a year's worth of government services or a 1-year supply of food. By
contrast, a medium of exchange is a means to facilitate your
purchases. Think of this in terms of currency, i.e., banknotes and
coins bearing the inscription IN GOD WE TRUST. A store of wealth can
be a non-consumable tangible item in limited supply ( e.g., land,
precious metals, Rembrandt paintings, US Treasuries ) or a consumable
tangible item in limited supply ( e.g., food, gasoline ) .

We use our mediums of exchange to acquire our stores of wealth, and
depend on reliable and consistent mediums of exchange to facilitate
these acquisitions. In the abstract, a medium of exchange has little
or no value unless it can be used to purchase a store of wealth. What
good are banknotes and coins if nobody is willing to accept them in
trade? On the other hand, a store of wealth may not be very liquid
without a reliable and consistent medium of exchange. This is the
essence of barter, which becomes necessary when a medium of exchange
is neither reliable nor consistent. "I'll trade you 3 dozen eggs for
a baseball cap." With this knowledge, lets go the y2k Personal
Insurance Plan...
Randy Flink will be providing additional financial information for the
Y2k-News on a regular basis. Look for his next article next week.
You can find Parts A and B of Randy's recommended Y2k Personal
Insurance Plan here:

Part A

Part B

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:04 - ID#257148)
as a post scrip to my 20:13
What is a ( ground ) squirrel? Is that in distinction to a sea squirrel, a tree squirrel or perhaps an unground squirrel? Does an unground squirrel taste different from a ground squirrel?

We got no native mammals here ( beside a bat that flew over from Stralia several million years ago -- one of the first illegal immigrants ) so I have no idea why you call it a ground squirrel. I thought a skwirl had a bushy tail, lived mostly in trees and collected nuts, like the "Squirrel Nutkin" of my Beatrix Potter childhood.

And ya can't kid a kidder.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:10 - ID#424394)
fiveliter - I agree with your 15:17 about Republicrats
There was a party long ago called Democrat-Republican.
I'm a libertarian cuz I can't support the meddling religious right which periodically sinks its teeth into the Republican party and shakes it up.
It would be GREAT if the Klinton/Gingrich fiasco guts both "parties" enough so that Libertarians could become third party to be reckoned with.
Perot's party is/was a joke - nice idea but Perot ran it for himself. I am convinced he was in league with the Klintoncrats since all he accomplished both times was handing the Presidency to Klinton.

Actually I would prefer one of these terrorist groups {maybe with the help of China} would sail a nuke up the Potomac. Trouble is that most of the State & Bigcity governments are not much better. In many cases they are worse cuz they can't be bought off easier - just look at Arkansas.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:12 - ID#187267)
I read a lot of comment on things like the Anti-Christ and Armageddon and such on this forum. If you really believed that those things are events which the future will hold, why dont't you read the Book that tells you all about them. I do not fear Armageddon or the AntiChrist because I will not be on earth to witness either of them. I will be safely in heaven with the one who ransomed me, If the events of the financial world indicate that the final apocalypse is very near, it is time to put our trust in God who loves us and died to redeem us, and not in gold.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:15 - ID#280214)
aurator - for more about Squirreldom

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:16 - ID#284255)
430 million PCs in use around the world today.
Feilder is president of Greenwich Mean Time, a firm he started in 1995. Greenwich Mean Time software tools help companies determine whether they have Y2K problems with their PCs or PC software.

Misconception number one is that Y2K is a mainframe matter, and that date handling problems at the desktop will not be painful. Greenwich Mean Time believes there are roughly 430 million PCs in use around the world today. The firm cites Gartner Group research claiming that 64 percent of mission critical applications reside on PCs. According to Feilder, date deficiencies could lurk in the PC BIOS, operating system, applications, data or interfaces between programs.

Misconception number two is that late model PCs are probably Y2K OK. Feilder's firm has tested 500 machines for Y2K compliance. Ninety-three percent of those manufactured prior to 1997 failed the examination. Forty-seven percent of those PCs produced in the first half of 1997 tanked the test and 21 percent of those built in the second half of last year still had problems. The good news is that the fail rate is headed in the right direction; the bad news is that, according to Feilder, 11 percent of PCs built in the first half of this year were still tripped up by a couple of zeros.

A third misconception is that Y2K will not bug most PC software. In fact, Greenwich Mean Time takes issue with 64 percent of the PC software titles it has tested ( now over 5000 programs ) . Feilder says 28 percent of this date-challenged software is called Y2K compliant by manufacturers. Not that these programs will rollover and die on January 1, 2000. But if they are overlooked, not so funny things could start happening.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:21 - ID#424394)
Jim - I have no hope of being one of meek that gets raptured
I'll be in it for the long and thick of it down here.
And I look forward to being part of the rebuilding.
Maybe I can do a small part in helping to cull out the rotten core
and helping nurture better seed stock florish in a better environment.
Maybe I could even start a family after the worst is over.
I intend to be one of the survivors in order to be able to do so.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:26 - ID#257148)
The only comment about the antichrist I remember reading on this forum is that Bill Gates is she. You counting on the rapture? Well I guess you'll have nothing more to say to this forum then.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:32 - ID#280214)
Jim_A - Many devout folks share your beliefs
But these faithful Christians also have many months or years of food squirreled away. Is it just in case the miss the boat out of here? I too find reason to believe that many people will be spirited away - raptured they call it. But I think it may be more along the lines of some off-earth effort to get the non-combatants, the innocents, the "women and kids" as is typically said ( though I know many women & kids you will be stuck here ) out of the line of fire. Many of the devout faithful I have met would not have the emotional, mental or physical ability to defend themselves during chaos and anarchy. They would open their hearts, hands and homes and get raped, robbed, tortured and murdered. Yes it is best that God or whomever quickly gets them off the battlefield.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:33 - ID#43349)
It will be a rebound, at first, off the depths od September...

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:35 - ID#373284)
STUDIO_R, namaste' ....let's talk about ENVIROWHORE GORE and his buddies
in Jersey...GREENE COUNTY TN...ask, CBS did at a point when they were not bought off...THIS THEN IS ON THE INTERNET...AL GORE IS A LIAR...and the little mafia scumbags in Jersey are what they bought...

STUDIO_R I sleep well......YOU will not understand this... COL. Purvis Sir., you Sir were and for your HONOR SIR...for your WIFE and for the CHILDREN...


Al Gore is a criminal...HEY AL...COME AND GET ME you traitor...

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:36 - ID#187267)
You don't understand. There are only winners and losers. Either you are one of the ransomed ( the door is open to anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and by faith receives the free gift of a pardon from Him ) or you are a LOSER. I, like all of you, would like to see gold and gold stocks rise. I would like to be able to make some money on the investments that I have, but, let us not forget that "Tonight thy soul may be required of thee" and let us lay up some treasure in Heaven.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:37 - ID#234218)
@ Jim A
Your post was not directed at me, but it is a most valid question. I would like to answer from my prospective if I may.

I trust in God. I pray for forgiveness and his gift of salvation. I believe that the "Endtimes" are near. However, since no one knows when the "Endtimes" or "Rapture" will be, or what exactly will transpire till then, I own gold just as one would save money for the future. I feel God has provided me with the means and knowledge to have and hold this for earthly use. If I am given the gift of salvation and take to Heaven I have no need of earthly things or protection. Perhaps someone who has been left behind will until the time gold and silver are cast worthlessly into the street. I don't not trust nor worship gold it is merely an earthly tool. God also gave us the will to survive and to prosper. Every job requires a tool.

I hope this off the shoulder rambling makes sense. Thank you

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:41 - ID#257148)
I'm outta here
churches always make me nervous.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:45 - ID#156161)
Grizz: I like the shotgun if you are expecting
trouble; for a "no nonsense" response to surprises;
and for all-purpose use.
For offense there is General Jackson's command,
"Give 'em cold steel, boys."
If you're offense is good you won't even be
discharging your arms.
I think that offense should be centered around
making sure that the government gets no more money.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:47 - ID#187267)
Read the Book. Start with the gospel of John. The salvation is free. It is a GIFT. We acquire it by faith. It is given to those who BELIEVE!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:47 - ID#234218)
Believe me up until 2 years God and Christianity made me more nervous than dating jealous triplets who's father owned a gun shop.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:48 - ID#207145)
Did someone pull out garlic, or a silver cross? Aurator left in a huff.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:50 - ID#207145)
I once dated a blind, deaf and dumb, nymphomaniac whose father owned a liquor store. We were in love.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 21:54 - ID#373284)
aurator, Namaste', many gulps to ya...this then is the world I prefer..........
glad you found that which is the start of your is a privilege...................

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:00 - ID#187267)
I enjoy reading comments on this forum. However, it seems that on the weekeends there is not too much to talk about, after we read how gold is the only real currency for the umpteenth time. Time to do some comtemplating on the future that everyone of us must face, and prepare for it.

My intent has not been to offend ( Aurator ) but merely to tell y'all that there is a sure way to escape the terror that will come. It's free.

Good-nite all.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:00 - ID#187267)
I enjoy reading comments on this forum. However, it seems that on the weekeends there is not too much to talk about, after we read how gold is the only real currency for the umpteenth time. Time to do some comtemplating on the future that everyone of us must face, and prepare for it.

My intent has not been to offend ( Aurator ) but merely to tell y'all that there is a sure way to escape the terror that will come. It's free.

Good-nite all.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:08 - ID#280214)
Sharefin's 21:03 on the Y2K Weatherman's Plans
Part A - quite a bit of detail on financial considerations
this section would be of most interest to investing Kitcoites.
This is a natural strength of the investment minded set.
It is easy for them to understand and prepare for.
Part B - very scanty in detail, too cursory to help much.
both Sharefin and I have posted many links to much more detail
though the Part B is a starting point to get investors thinking.
Stocking the necessities of life can be very, very complex -
especially if you get led into preserving as much of your present lifestyle as possible and thus complicate things more than necessary.
About the average street person or "hobo".
Food, water, shelter & clothing are the primary considerations.
{Heat is considered part of the shelter}. Sanitation - dealing with one's personal wastes and bathing once in a while are next up in priority. Even a washcloth "marine bath" at a creek's edge is great improvement. Warm water is a luxury - that is why the Indians valued hot springs so much.
Medical & Dental considerations, though usually in the background, may become so important as to overwhelm the other considerations. Simple over the counter medications like cough syrup and aspirin could be worth their weight in Silver. Anti-biotics and stronger pain medications could be worth their weight in Gold or more - they could be lifesaving. Even better would be getting wisdom teeth out now and buying a meat grinder for when chewing even slow-cooked tender meat could be a chore - or impossible for older folk and for infants when no Gerbers is available.
Food, Water, & protection from the elements, and Sanitation & Medical
That is it folks ( except for defense - hiding and/or weapons )
The rest {generators, lights, radios, liquor, cigarettes} are luxuries.
( some may regard the latter two as necessities - but better off without 'em}

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:08 - ID#284255)
Dr. Strangelove
IBM says worldwide Y2K situation is in very poor shape.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:10 - ID#288369)
It appears that our pal, EB has been QUIETLY hoarding the metals as he charts our little precious into the pits of paper hell, fire and flamin' brimstone....scaring the pisserooo outta' ol' studio....yessir, EBswivelhips...juking like larry cZonka....breaking into the open field that little monkeeto go...........WoW!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:17 - ID#288369)
Purvis....friend or foe?

How 'bout the newtron bombster tonight.....sending kitco letter bombs that pack de' punch.....gosh damn.

agulp...apuff....a wee bit mo' o' de rum...uh huh.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:17 - ID#234218)
@ Blooper
Yes, but were you nervous?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:19 - ID#261155)
@snowball....take a look...
here is a few of the agreements, our government has entered into...and if you have more time check my posts this morning for UN treaties...^s^..

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:25 - ID#288369)
I once dated a necrophiliac, but she found me a little too lively.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:28 - ID#424394)
aurator - churches are fine places
They provide opportunities to meet single women.
Though you have to be wary of those who are so devoutly religious
they don't believe in guns, defense, football, whiskey and beer -
among other things ;- )
They can also provide lots of warmth and comradeship in hard times
if you can manage to endure the periodic mandatory sermons & such.
It is the latter,
when they start to get in my face to convert me, that make me nervous
as deer who have just caught the scent of Hoppes and Human.
Like you - I'm outta there!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:29 - ID#234218)
Nothing like a little light reading. Hope I've got enough years left in my life.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:32 - ID#288369)
I prefer Hoppes to Old Spice. small churches work better, imho.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:33 - ID#280222)
..a serious question, that deserves some serious answers..
When the bubble bursts...where will the powers that be, park their wealth? They must have someplace in mind. And, it might not be gold.......Where COULD they park it? OR, even prosper...

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:39 - ID#69149)
@No one in particular....
Someone recently mentioned here that they noticed more and more crappy old folding money going through their wallet lately. I have noticed the same thing up here in Massachusetts...
Yessir... just another sign that all is not right with the world.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:45 - ID#207145)
Studio R
EB is waiting for the rally next week so he can buy some Disney.
It may be his last chance to buy at higher prices.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:48 - ID#207145)
Studio R
Mennen Skin Bracer. As Jack Palance says"dont you think confidence is sexy".Yes but butt ugly gets em outta the mood.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:48 - ID#335190)
Are You Well? @ ALL is Well eh! (Be Quiet-Consume-And Die)
Drugs like Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Luvox, Effexor, Serzone, Anafranil, etc. are some of the biggest money makers ever for the pharmaceutical companies.

Did You Know. . you have a seven times greater chance of dying walking into your doctor's office than you do getting behind the wheel of your car? Prescription drug adverse reactions are the third leading cause of death in America!

Every year approximately 200,000 die from prescription drug reactions and another 80,000 die from medical malpractice, while 41,000 die in auto accidents. [DRUG TOPICS, October 23, 1995, pg. 14-16.] What is wrong with our focus on the "drug war" when 200,000 die each year from prescription drugs, yet approximately only 20,000 die as a result of illegal drug use?

Billions of dollars go into illegal drug issues in this country every year even though far more are dying from legal drugs. Everyone is asking, "Where is the FDA?" Busy approving another new drug? And how many more will die from that one?

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:52 - ID#207145)
Ive noticed the drug ads on TV downplay horrible side effects. I mentioned the fda to my dentist the other day, and he agreed. The FDA is out of control.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:52 - ID#280222)
How about some help thinking this one out ( my 22:33 ) . They MUST have a plan; and a mind. The really big boys do NOT get wiped out by man-made disasters...they get bigger.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:53 - ID#187109)
I carry nothing but CRISP
bills in my pocket......ohmy. I throw AWAY the old ones. ( huh ) ?


That's like the story of the guy who couldn't get any gold coins at their local coin shop...............I don't buy it.

Ask Bart......or RJ........or Robnoel..............
hey guys can I get some gold coins?? Can I get some crisp HUNDREDS?? Ask D.A. He'll tell you that they print money like it's goin' outta style ( grin ) ........right D.A.ole.bean. ( ? ) ......and what of that wager??? btw......... ZorrO..........NytolTeddO
stirrinandbrewin'......uh huh.

a side note r.e. G. Soros....... didn't that guy make a Billion ( with a B ) in three days...........and LOSE 600 million in ONE?? ..........I'm askin'...............not tellin'.............but askin' he a financial genius? or merely a DAMN lucky speculatin' dude w/ lots-o-connections................... ( hmmmmmm ) .........

AGULP to ToL#1 - just because............ ( zowza ) ( ! ) ....

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:58 - ID#28994)
In God We Trust..........Is that on Gold coins..????????

(Sat Aug 08 1998 22:58 - ID#207145)
I carry nothing but old floppy ones that others throw away.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:00 - ID#284255)
Missing data???
Would anyone have the up/down volume data for
Amex - Nasdaq - NYSE
For the 30th & 31st July 1998???

Please forward to
All is good - the work is done.
Our home looks stunning after 2000hrs plus of work.
Historical "Freshwater Cottage" is now on the market.
Pictures to follow soon.
Much painting - repairing - polishing of brass.
Has got our lovely home shining as never before.
Doors and fittings stripped - botanical gardens refurbished.
Antique furniture polished - windows scrubed and leadlights installed.

Truly I am ever so proud.
And waiting in the wings for some loving couple,
To do our home justice.


Now I can get back to being a netaholic again.

Go gold - soon.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:00 - ID#207145)
Maybe thats why theyre goin to hell.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:03 - ID#28994)
Hey,,,,,,,look outside........full moon...makes us crazy

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:05 - ID#207145)
I'm afraid to look, as am almost certifiable now.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:05 - ID#187109)
more stuff before I gotta go
My chiropractor ( sp? ) told me today that he just got back from Orlando ( home of Disney World ) and he was AMAZED! I just listened to him say how AMAZING the park was......and how, upon getting back from vacation, he bought Disney stock. I fell outta the ( back breaker chair ) chair. I told him of Kitco. We both had a FINE laugh. I love you guys.......and especially the Women.

StudioRumski - ( had a few myself ) - It was Howard Cossell who said, "look at that little monkey GO!" Wasn't he talking of OJ? I don't remember. It got him Exiled ( more sp ) though.........yes?? yudaman. GO METALS!!!! Or is that MATTELL?? ( sp )

gotta go! cop a feel in the back seat.........yahooooO!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:06 - ID#280222) response..
OK...I guess I'll go have a cold one too.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:08 - ID#261155)
@all who would like a closer seat to the
action.....of KS and others.....check it out

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:13 - ID#207145)
Maybe your chiropractor was buying, but ask your doctor what he's doin wid the Disney. They stand to lose during a recession. Expensive you know.Good Luck, give Micky a big old kiss when ya see him. Buying opportunity coming up here about Tuesday. After that it will probably fall!!!!

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:13 - ID#373284)
STUDIO_R, Namaste' to you and your's...ALWAYS my BEST
some wait for Christmas, i would rather embrace the the stars as they jump from Oklahoma and bounce...TOM HORN and me are sharing a beer...

Tom , set in his ways...THIS THEN is a warning...the contents of his soul, and his pouch of TRUTH...pasty faced bastards.............

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:14 - ID#342376)
@ EB
You're a riot. One of my good friends just moved to Orlando. He's staying with another friend of mine that moved there. They want me to visit. I told them the last place I ever want to go to is Disney World with all those gum-chewing, overconsuming tourists. But you know what, I'll bet it is a blast. My friend said come the first week of December. It's quiet then. Who knows. By the way, try Acupuncture! Some people that have been to Chiropracters for years come for a few treatments and back pain is gone, FOREVER! Of course, I'm an Acupuncturist, so I'm a bit biased.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:14 - ID#288369)
I know many of your female' delights consider you a craved maniac...but, to us you will always be just a normal red-blooded all-Merkan boy....DownBoy!!! "but will you respect me in the mornin'?" sure,baby.......ohmy
Just like howie, my microphone has just been jerked.

I didn't mean it roone....give me aNutter chance...

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:17 - ID#207145)
Studio R
But Linda Evans in that barrel O water was a fine spectacle. A drop and 3 turns. Perish the thot I always did like ol Steve. Bullit was good. The charger lost 5 hubcaps.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:19 - ID#28994)
Yep....when I open a bottle of the fine Hyland, I throw the cork away.
This evening I had the great privledge of waging war with a bottle of Bunnahabhain 12 year old.
I think come morning I will find myself severley wounded and will be in the 24 hour recovery mode.
It was the full moon...I dont think the bottle was spoiled.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:25 - ID#288369)
@bloOper..........linda evans dy.nasty......
yum yum. McQueen and mcstudio like pamela sue and madonna....palance thinks they're a little young though.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:26 - ID#207145)
It is majical to look at that bright lunar orb. Like looking into a campfire. If you add the right spirits it IS majical. Primeordal. "O cold dark orb that rules the night, white is black and black is white". Nights in wite satin.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:29 - ID#43349)
The Man>

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:31 - ID#207145)
I'm not sure I trust Mutual Funds
Think I will check into buying 1 year and 10 years from the Fed reserve bank. Not that I'm gettin defensive or anything.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:36 - ID#207145)
OR maybe I don't trust the gubmint
Maybe I'm just PARANOID . There are no good stocks to own. None. The best offence is a good defense. Abby Battapaglia, get outta my sight. My next alternative is THE MATTRESS.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:39 - ID#288369)
Great Gulps to YA!! and Tom Horn. starry, starry night...van de' man gogh where you gotta' go...and do what you gotta' do..mamas&pappas.....choked on a cheeeZeburger...BOOM! she's dead. always chew your food...mama cass' mama told her.

party favor headed yo' there mon. or tues.......... ( gulp ) ( gag ) ( gag ) ( silence )

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:41 - ID#284255)
Swing chart updated
Short term
Long term

Looks like a bottom has been established.
For how long who knows.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:41 - ID#335190)
August 7, 1998

Mergers between four top drug wholesalers scrapped

NEW YORK ( AP ) -- Two mergers between the top four U.S. drug wholesalers were scrapped today, a week after a federal judge blocked the deals because of antitrust concerns.

The trade commission said if the mergers were allowed to proceed, the two new companies would end up with 80 per cent of the $80 billion wholesale drug industry and could drive up prices.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:45 - ID#207145)
I can hear Mamma now "While I'm far away from you my baby, say a little prayer for me my baby, because it's hard for me my baby, and the darkest hour is just before dawn". What a clear beautiful voice. But gimme Michelle Phillips for the Bolero.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:48 - ID#284255)

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:49 - ID#335190)
Arms @ Government Debt = Russia can do = USofA can do = Taxpayers work/wealth for Arms eh!
August 8, 1998

Russia agrees to write-off 90 pct of Ethiopian debt

ADDIS ABABA, Aug 8 ( Reuters ) - Ethiopian Finance Minister Sufian Ahmed said on Saturday that Russia had agreed to write off 90 percent of the $5 billion debt lent to the Soviet-backed government of ousted dictator Mengistu Haile Mariam.

"The Russian government has expressed willingness to write off up to 90 percent of the $5 billion debt incurred by the outsed Marxist government for arms purchase," Sufian told reporters.

"But, Ethiopia insists that the debt should be cancelled entirely because the debt was not for development but for destructive ends," he added.

Sufian said another round of talks on the debt would be held in Addis Ababa in the near future and he hoped that an agreement would be reached for a compelete write-off of the debt.

Mengistu spent billions trying to supress rebellions in northern Ethiopia and was one of Moscow's staunchest supporters against western influence in Africa.

(Sat Aug 08 1998 23:51 - ID#288369)
yum yum to belle...mccartney's ballad about AT&T breakup I guess....huh? no speakie frenchie.