Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:00 - ID#207145)
The bad guys
Love wars. I believe war will be involved in our slavery. Technology could well do it alone, with chips. Our every move could be monitored by telethony or sattelite, ior buy purchases and sales.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:01 - ID#341234)
Stupid Advise
This is the most STUPID advise you will see posted today. Allowing an IDIOT like this to live is a waste of oxygen.

Are your investments safe from the Bug?

Some call it ``The Millennium Bug"; others ``Y2K." Regardless of what it's called, the Year 2000 computer problem threatens to cripple many businesses and shut others down altogether at midnight, Dec. 31, 1999. Should you make changes in your investment portfolio to protect your money? No - because no one can predict the future.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:02 - ID#153102)
@Tamarlane @T1
Tamarlane Beats me.

T1 It's a code word. Get out the code book. Night, seet Prince.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:02 - ID#284255)
Swing chart updated

Looks like the bottom is in.
Rally time???

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:02 - ID#207145)
We probably have 8--10 years of freedom.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:03 - ID#401460)

Just ask the US, they are funding much of this crap.

The Mexican bailout, the US loaned Mexico $40 billion, they paid us back a lot of it, But, they paid us back with money they borrowed from the IMF - money which the US loaned the IMF.

It is a big shell game. I am to tired to list the players again. This game has been going on for a LONG time.


(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:05 - ID#207145)
Do not be decieved by this sucker rally.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:06 - ID#190411)
Soros wants the milkcow taxpayers of the several donating countries to supply Russia with more reserves so that he can capture them by slamming their currency.
Doesn't he just bleed kindness? Ask Malaysia.

To those who were looking for a list of unhedged goldies, perhaps Panda can tell you a bit about one of them. --- AEM.NYSE Agnico-Eagle. I got my afterend kicked on this one. It's Cheap now, but aren't they all.
Euro Nevada sure was low yesterday. Good bounce earlier today, I didn't check the close. Another unhedged, but not a miner. They won't go broke anytime soon, as they are a royalty company. Maybe they will end up with the assets of all of the producers that go broke while mining their holdings.
I added this extra because kitco wasn't answering. I am sorry if it turns out to be a double post.
missinglink mentioned another unhedged-- Newmont. I thought that Newmont Gold ( NGC.NYSE ) was a bargain at 23.00 . Now look at it.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:07 - ID#401460)

"No - because no one can predict the future."

I fear, the Future is here my friend!

Good Night and Good Luck to All!


(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:09 - ID#207145)
High Rise
Goodnight, hell anything that comes in the future will beat the scenerio we present.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:09 - ID#150172)
food storage info
check this link

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:09 - ID#373284)
Third in the House of ARAGORN...HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! from the Island that is LONG
all that are the riches in this life are sent your is a privilege for me to even speak your nameGod bless the native sons of NB NAMASTE'

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:10 - ID#335190)
Russia @ Disasterous
12 AUGUST 1998


Russia's benchmark stock index on 11 August fell to its lowest level in more than two years. Yields on long-term government debt rose to 130-140 percent from 90-110 percent the previous day.

Shares in some companies slipped by as much as 20-25 percent.According to Interfax, traders feared that Russia will not be able to cope with the rising costs on both its domestic and foreign debt and that a devaluation of the ruble is inevitable. JAC

According to "Izvestiya" on 12 August, unless teachers are paid part of the 12 billion rubles ( $1.9 billion ) in back wages they are owed, strikes by teachers at the start of the school year appear inevitable. With the exception of Moscow, St. Petersburg, Dagestan, Samara Oblast and the Yamalo-Nenetsk autonomous okrug, teachers across Russia have not been paid. On 3 August, teachers at a school in the Sverdlovsk oblast declared a hunger strike. However, the Ministry of Education does not believe that the public should be alarmed. It considers the situation in Sverdlovsk to be peaceful and notes that wages have been paid without interruption and the region has not required any federal assistance. However, "Izvestiya" reports that teachers there have, in fact, not received any wages since April. JAC


Police have questioned Aleksandr Sergeev, head of the Independent Union of Mineworkers, about his members' blockade of the Trans-Siberian railroad near Chelyabinsk. ITAR-TASS reported that more than 500 policemen stopped miners from the Chelyabinskugol coal-mining company from trying to extend their blockade of railroads through to the Dubrovka station, some 30 kilometers south of Chelyabinsk. Chelyabinsk regional prosecutor Anatolii Bragin said that force was used only against those who tried to expand the current blockade. JAC

Interfax had reported on 8 August that miners in Chelyabinsk have agreed to end their strike following a promise of back wages worth 25 billion ( $4 billion ) from Deputy Prime Minister Boris Nemtsov ( see "RFE/RL Newsline," 10 August 1998 ) . But Reuters reported that part of the railroad in Chelyabinsk remained blocked on 11 August, and according to ITAR- TASS, an agreement with union leaders, Chelyabinsk Governor Petr Sumin, and Chelyabinskugol company officials, was not signed until that day. ITAR-TASS reported on 12 August that although the rails have been cleared, protesters at the Potanino Station continue to stand next to the tracks, while police and OMON forces remain in position along other parts of the line. JAC/BP

"Trud" reported on 11 August that more than 100,000 state
employees will be dismissed by the end of 1998. The 20 July
government decree "On the content, limited number, and wage
resources of the territorial organs of the federal bodies of the
executive branch" determines the number of employees for each
ministry. The Transport Ministry will have to lay off only 728
people or 19 percent of its staff, while the Federal Tax Service will
have to cut its personnel by some 28,000 people ( 15 percent ) .
The State Statistics Committee will lose more than 20 percent of
its staff, and the Federal Security Service will cut more than 4,000
posts. JAC

The first rail traffic passed through the Russian-Chinese border
crossing of Makhalino-Hunchun on 12 August, ITAR-TASS
reported. The 22-kilometer rail track is expected to handle
500,000 tons of cargo annually this year and in 1999. That figure
is forecast to reach 3 million tons by 2002. The track will boost
trade between Russia's Primore Region and the northern provinces
of China. BP

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:11 - ID#263254) light of tonight's CONFIRMATION
on thoughts bantied about...paying off your mortgage may not
necessarily bring you peace, comfort and prosperity, dollar for

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:12 - ID#402148)

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:12 - ID#218253)
To All: ...I've got a sneaking suspision that the Global Meltdown.......................
.....................................................................................IS Upon Us! Globex Futures are down over 6. The fact that we are not continuing to at least rally to a .382 of the 1057 point decline is VERY VERY SCARRY. I"M Sceeaared......... Oh.......Buy Gold!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:13 - ID#207145)
Russia to dump?
They are in bad shape. If they dump PMs, what do they really have?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:16 - ID#207145)
It would save me many thousands of dollars.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:17 - ID#384350)
Practise your Putting
Pete Coors of Coors Brewing booked the entire Adare Manor Hotel where top Coors employees were being rewarded with a trip to Ireland. As an added bonus, Pete had a contest. The first of the employees who could sink a very, very long put would be given $1 million. They were all out there in the pouring rain, trying to make the put, to no avail.

At the end of their stay when no one had made the putt, Pete said, "Okay, whoever gets closest to the hole gets $250,000." The lucky employee who was closest had a pretty good holiday.

Also staying at the Adare Manor will be the president Klinton, after meeting with Yeltsin Sep 1 and 2 in Russia. He is to play golf at Ballybunion on the 5th with Dick Spring. He'll probably sneak in a couple rounds in Adare also.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:19 - ID#284255)
Hong Kong slipping again
Down 3.58%
Malaysia down 5.19%
Singapore down 2.87%

Obviously they don't follow the US or Europe.

Will the slide continue???

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:23 - ID#207145)
YES, What is the Yen doing. Also don't put money at risk. Asia is IT.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:24 - ID#218253)
Just Checked TTI web site. His post confirms 5 waves down complete.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:25 - ID#263254)
Perhaps, but perhaps not. Depends on your perspective on the dollar
vs. the EURO vs. the price of gold, in the near future. No matter
what you do, it's going to be a just got VERY complicated.
Bloody *$#@.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:25 - ID#284255)
I wouldn't be long at the moment.
Any fools rally here would be a buyers dream.
A buyer of short positions that is.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:25 - ID#207145)
Bottom in October Sharefin
I will invest then. Carefully. Then will sell into strength before long.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:27 - ID#263254)
And no, this does not come as a was
simply confirmed that it will probably come sooner.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:28 - ID#207145)
It's not complicated. You get outta debt. You buy gold bullion.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:29 - ID#207145)
And it will get cheaper ( Gold ) .

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:30 - ID#207145)
Debt is your enemy
In deflation.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:31 - ID#284255)
Blooper - bottom in Oct - which year????
Do you mean you will be speculating that the bottom will be in October??

With what's going on who really knows?
This world of ours has never been in this position before.

Truley a good reason to have physical.
Not for today.
But for what comes after tomorrow.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:32 - ID#287312)
Hong Kong Down 4%

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:33 - ID#284255)
Something happening out there?
HK down over 4%

Globex slipping away.

Not quite the ingrediants of a strong rally.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:33 - ID#207145)
We fear Asias Recovery
When Asia recovers, Gold and the Euro will soar. The dollar will take a crap.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:35 - ID#373284)
mozel, NAMASTE' you are a treasure
I want to walk in Jerusalem just like John, Bill Monroe dont ya know

You arrive any time at my home...any time...always welcome ...always...and I mean what I say...I am my words...always welcome...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:36 - ID#227238)
High Rise: The bailouts and IMF loans, so called, are all part of the bribe process to keep luckless taxpayers paying interest in a usurious system. For further details refer to Gianni Dioro's post on the other side of the hour. Supremely interesting reading. Must get the book. But the exerpts are just priceless. ...... In a few short pages you will understand completely how we have become indentured servants. ..... BTW, It didn't begin yesterday.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:36 - ID#207145)
You do as you see fit. I told you I would invest for a short time. You didn't want to listen. So go ahead and do as I know you will--as you please. No one is forcing you. Time will tell.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:37 - ID#288229)

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:38 - ID#218253)
TTI....Long term Gold, E-wave on June 10th.
Isn't that about to happen..........Now?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:38 - ID#150172)
Sorry for my ignorance but what is the globex? What does it represent? Goods or currency?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:39 - ID#207145)
I know where my bottom is. Other bottoms, no telling. Temporary bottoms come after crappy profit reports--October.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:40 - ID#218253)
Global Exchange............Overnite futures trading. The S&P trades
at night. As well as other futures.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:41 - ID#373284)
cherokee, Namaste' is that you
How the hell are ya?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:42 - ID#411112)
CLINTONS PLAN...IMHO....stall Starr till October...the market is weak it would not take a lot for

PPT to cause a major market collapse,the
Democrats will be ready to attack weeks
before the election...they will blame
Starr,that zealot Dan Burton and hate radio
,it his only shot to stay in office he has to
get congress back in Democrats hands Conyers
would chair Burtons commette and you know he
will shut it down.....just my 2c

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:42 - ID#411112)
CLINTONS PLAN...IMHO....stall Starr till October...the market is weak it would not take a lot for

PPT to cause a major market collapse,the
Democrats will be ready to attack weeks
before the election...they will blame
Starr,that zealot Dan Burton and hate radio
,it his only shot to stay in office he has to
get congress back in Democrats hands Conyers
would chair Burtons commette and you know he
will shut it down.....just my 2c

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:43 - ID#288229)

what the he!!??

hey earl....

a question for you....

if a man and woman are divorced in arkansas....are they still brothers and sisters??

i've been slowly increasing the # of crude calls in addition to the gold call options that are ALWAYS hanging around....the money must be spent somewhere....the grains took some....crude and gold can take the rest....

gotta fly......the ssm awaits....


(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:43 - ID#207145)
If you can't spot one, you cant spot one. Mine is right here, sore from listening to and typing somuch bullshit.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:44 - ID#207145)
What about the great big rally after the market shits.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:48 - ID#207145)
The market is Clinton's baby. He already claimed it. It will do him in.93 % think he is doing a terrible job.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:49 - ID#377211)
Late rally in US stockmarket: a sign of short covering rather than bulls buying?
Yesterday, Wednesday, CNBC was all excited about this late surge of the US stockmarket ( they like Abby Cohen! ) . Is it possible that, because of the recent volatility, we have now more "traders" than "investors" in the market.... and that a significant portion of these late rallies is actually due to day traders and short term traders covering their short positions??? Oohlala!...If that is the case,.... then the bulls are more outnumbered than we think think!
If we do not have a good bounce in the US stock market today, then we risk to close below 8400 for the DOW... ( IMHO ) ... Not good...
Good luck .... Gaston

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:50 - ID#207145)
The President Lives or Dies by the Market. Can't Blame.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:52 - ID#153102)
@cherokee @Bingo @Earl @T1
cherokee Welcome !

Bingo I think Congress would develop instant diarrieha if somebody told them they had to have .000017 ounce of gold before they could spend another greenback.

Earl Ma Ma Ma Maximus Maximum. It's Congress what runs the circus.
Your neighborhood is not my neighborhood.
ab initio nunc pro tunc ... from the beginning now for then... just for the form of it

@T1 G&P

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:52 - ID#218253)
Globex Prices....

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:54 - ID#218253)
I think I'll buy some Gold coins in the morning!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:57 - ID#280214)
Blooper - I am worried about you
Your posts this evening are mucho downers - not without cause though.
If this is how you look at the world after St Johns Wort and coffee
good gawd man - when they wear off you better not have any sharp objects or things that go bang or even any electricity handy or high places to climb to.
How do I know this?
Been there done that - like this evening - again. Must be vibes.
Ever wonder what the last member of a species feels like?
Wandering around - not meeting any of his own kind - no mates - ever..
At times, like this evening, I feel like my line will become extinct.
Actually I think it would be easier being the last one of a species.
It is harder being surrounded by lots and lots of people.
With whom I share little to nothing.
I wonder if that's what it will be like after Y2K, GDII & WWIII.

I guess 300 mg of St Johns Wort this morning and 600mg a few hours ago were not enough. Is there a level where one can OD on it?

P.S. Thanks RJ - your complement helped - by about 900mg worth!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:58 - ID#268404)
What happened to the resolve the US didn't want China to de-value ?
I guess that was just during Clinton's visit...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:58 - ID#288229)
my friend...

fresh water has consumed me for the last 2 months....this commodity will one day hold its' rightful the forefront of ALL commodities....

well is the answer t1.....time has escaped me, and she conspires to evade me tam bien...

how, and whence has kitco traveled? where are the time travelers?

who has the digisys url for charts? thanks..


(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:58 - ID#226299)
@the scene
Gianni Dioro -- Hell of an interesting book you've posted those entrys from. I knew there was usury in use in Babylon but found the rest of the story QUITE 'interesting'!!! One doesn't find the 'tale' in the typical history books. Makes sense to me that the borrowers finally turned on the lenders. Got plans to order the book myself. Thanks....

(Thu Aug 13 1998 00:59 - ID#411259)
..... kapex .....

Buy Mounties

Max 9.30 downside risk
Hell, the bid is $310.10
Can only go down to $310
For the next 17 months
When bought for delivery
This gold is risk free
As long as a ten cent drop
Is considered risk free
This will be so
For a time


(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:00 - ID#218253)
Flash updates, another Globex site.......S&P on its lows Now.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:00 - ID#207145)
I am cheered up, just by hearing the chirp of a squirrel. I was thinking about playing the temporary bottom in late october thru Invesco European Fund. Up 46% still.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:02 - ID#373284)
robnoel, Namaste' and a gulp to ya...William Jefferson Clinton is garbage
and a disgrace to the great STATE of ARKANSAS, a pissant he is...when men like me lose their temper...the Marines will run for coverthe very fabric of goodness will be rewovenTRUTHI am my Fathers son and darn proud to be an Americandarn proud and I will shoulder with any man aliveGOD BLESS THE REPUBLIC

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:03 - ID#284255)
No offence meant.
I was just ribbing about the concept of investing in these troubled times.
I don't think one can invest at the moment.
One can only speculate.
Cause no one really knows where its all really going.

I wish I had some spare loot to short these rallies.
I'm just sitting on the sideline with some small short positions.

Doing nothing - bored - waiting.
And missing all the action.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:05 - ID#273227)
cherokee -welcome to the valley of the sun
Cherokee - you up for a round of golf? Squaw Peak? I trade at Scottsdale Rd & Camelback - how about lunch someday after the market closes?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:06 - ID#411112) feeling is the Democrats have no issue that is going to give them back congress....they

need something big and I bet if 67% thinks he
is doing a good job how many do you think
will blame Starr and the Republicans if the
market heads south for once I bet they don't
blame the President its because constant
attack he has been under....if Clinton gets
the house back which he lost in 94 he is home

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:07 - ID#207145)
Life is good. I get depressed and take care of serious business, then I can get happy. We have time to be happy. How's your car? Your young wife.? I wish for a young wife!!!!!! No viagra needed. ( or more ) .She could wreck my car. They think I'm a dirty old man. I get away with murder ( Clinton ) . Ha Ha.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:08 - ID#227238)
Cherowhacker: Amigo, it's decidedly unclear as to the familial standing of the parties, postpartum. But any offspring are surely destined to find greatness in the Whitehouse. Dribbles or no dribbles. ...... and yes; two men conversing in a forest would still be wrong even though a woman is not present to tell them so. Gee, these are so easy.

I have been adding to GC calls as well. June 00's. May look at some lower strikes. But physical is still better. With physical, no one stands between me and the real stuff. ..... Corn had a little fake out. Wheat may be doing the same. Gotta get feet wet somewhere in here.

Fly through here again soon. Missed ya.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:08 - ID#218253)
I've got a Bad feeling about this one guys!
Is Hong Kong closed now?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:09 - ID#207145)
Si Robnoel
He will lose seats. His people won't vote. Conservatives will show up in droves. I will.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:11 - ID#153102)
The Scape Goat For The Market
Congress's Candidate: Alan "I Told You So" Greenspan.
The Dem's Candidate: Wall Street & Rubin

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:13 - ID#207145)
No offense taken as you are wise ( most time ) . I printed your most wise post on Lucent and Motorola. Most interesting. Filled in spaces that were blank. Many thanks.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:13 - ID#384350)
Kapex, Earl, El Dorado
kapex, weren't you talking about an extended wave 3 on the Dow? With Globex off, a weak Hong Kong market affects London's. It's getting ugly. Your thoughts? Also, your links weren't accessible to us common folk.

Earl & ElDorado, yeah 10 for 11. A concept that I wasn't taught in senior level finance course, Banking 465 at University. Last weekend I called that number to get other books by Hoskins. I was talking to the guy for about 20 minutes, and then asked if he knew Hoskins. He said, "Yep, you're talking to him."

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:13 - ID#263254)
I guess I am connecting the dots differently than you are.
Mortgage payoff and gold accumulation does not necessarily
create future security and comfort in the USA. Choices are
indeed more complicated.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:14 - ID#273227)
Jeil - charts
Jeil - you are projecting Homestake to reach $5 the fall? As for your
charts, I would like to see numbers ( maybe a chart ) along with the picture.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:14 - ID#288229)

kuston....we played scottsdale cc last week in 117* heat....had a blast..only ones on the course..i'll be back next week with 2
golfing compadres...18 @ mountain view would be excellent...
if time allows we're in....

my e-mail is

i think.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:19 - ID#280214)
Blooper - good you reminded me
I must get it registered so I can legally drive it to the gas station and fill up the rear tire before it is completely flat - since I have no spare. Gotta run it once in a while anyway just to stir up its fluids. Only put about 100 miles on it so far this year. Previous owners put over two hundred thousand on it. It's an '86 Subaru.

As to young wife - not very likely any time I can foresee.
I probably will remain single - not enough time, not enough money/Gold.
Perhaps that is why I look forward to Y2K. Money won't matter and I will have time again - lots of time. Maybe some women's priorities will change after Y2K. If not, then the post Y2K, GDII, & WWIII scenario may come to pass.

Glad my chirping/chattering cheered you up some.
After my walk in the dark - I came back to Kitco to take my mind of it.
Thanks guys & gals.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:19 - ID#227238)
Gianni Dioro__A : Interesting. I'll call directly and preserve his margins. Did he have any comments germane to the immediate future?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:19 - ID#207145)
Let me explain to you about debt during deflation. You repay debt with dollars that are appreciated. The opposite of inflation. You repay debt with more valuable dollars. Therefore repay debt with current dollars that are worth less.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:22 - ID#433172)
John Disney
CNN interviewed a black guy who said the Americans were biased in the resue. Later it was confirmed by some American guy....Surprised?

Just bought some more DROOY today..right thing to do?

I've enjoyed your posts, have 4 dogs of my own, admired Ian Smith, am watching SA closely via the sketchy reports I get.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:25 - ID#263254)
Blooper...lets get onto the same wavelength.
We're talking mechanics of martial law, EO's, and confiscation of pp.
Inflation or deflation has nothing to do with it. Just cause you paid
for it and own it doesn't mean it's gonna stay yours.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:25 - ID#227238)
Mozel: I'll pursue your suggestion tomorrow. If issued a raincheck or something, I'll assign it to Blooper. On the assumption that he will be able to vote twice for the mountebank of his choice. ..... A guy can't be too careful when choosing his masters.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:27 - ID#207145)
This market can get oversold. In October it will Go below 6000. It will be oversold. Everyone will realise it at the same time. Going into Christmas. It is a very positive time for stocks and bonds, arespit from Asia.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:29 - ID#255284)
Bingo cherokee Earl Auproducer
I have received email from your relation, I shall respond anon. Have they given up on paper? Good work!

lastest ( ? ) smoke signals from Ted@Swanns_Island

Have looked in the bottom of mailbox, did you send something after you fishing trip last week?

Okay, shall work on improving my cast. It can stand a lot of improvement.

Welcome, golden ratite!

Tight Lines

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:30 - ID#153102)
Thanks again for those wonderful posts on usury. I knew there was sorcery in the financial "system". Your posts named names. I was reminded as in a vision that wakens old memory.

I don't know if I can adequately explain it, but usury and price inflation go together like bad water and illness. Usury enables credit or future funds to compete with savings or present funds. Future funds, being more imaginary than real, are simply less price sentitive than present funds, to which the labor and denial of saving are attached in memory, and that causes price to rise.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:30 - ID#280214)
Blooper - I may agree with Bingo
Don't pay off the mortgage - but make sure you have on paper how much you owe come December 1999. Maybe you'll be lucky and the bank will forget - though I wouldn't do that to a small mom & pop bank owned by some friends {though how many of those are there any more?}

Instead buy lots of grub: beef stew, peanut butter & honey, jam, pork 'n beans and don't forget the macaroni & cheese {I lived on lots of that during college}. Ever try macaroni & cheese mixed with tuna mixed in - yum!
Hey, when your on a tight budget you'll try anything!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:30 - ID#207145)
You are near Armageddon. By that time you will have the mark of the computer, or you will be dead. The UN will be enforcing. Sure Bingo, it is all over.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:32 - ID#218253)
As I've noted before the Elliot wave is sometimes not conclusive but in hindsight
. This market has been extending all 3rd waves of their 5 wave declines and therefore is hard to pinpoint whether another extended wave is comming.
If this is the end of the long wave count from the 1929 lows, or even the 1982 lows, then it would be expected to see extensions of extensions to the downside. You could easily count the waves as a 1 and a 2, then a -1- and a -2- then this last decline as a ( 1 ) and the latest up move as an a-b-c ( 2 ) . A third of a third is right in front of us. This is where a Crash would Begin. IMHO, if we break the lows of Tuesday
then that would be the correct count. Panic would definetly set in on a break of those lows.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:34 - ID#207145)
You cound try for the rapture. However, if that doesn't work, bend over and kiss your ass goodby.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:37 - ID#207145)
Bingo is way ahead of us. He is at property confuscation. I told him at that point to kiss hi ass goodby.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:40 - ID#227238)
Aurator: Shamefacedly, no. Any fish referred to last week, entailed a 6 hour ( round trip ) drive to the coast to secure some fresh tuna for canning. An enterprise ( canning of fish and other things ) that consumed much of late last week and the weekend. I began the process with a sharp knife and 120 pounds of damned tuna. Never filleted a tuna before. ..... Learned real quick. ...... Email soonest. Promise.

BTW, as an aid to yer crappy backcast, try visualizing the line being throw straight up, over yer head. Obviously, you can't do it but it may help control excess motion to the rear.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:41 - ID#207145)
You could live in the woods like a wolf. Only move at night. Supposing you were stocked.Sattelite get you during day.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:46 - ID#384350)
Earl, re Hoskins conversation
I asked him if he thought the big deflation was coming and he said he did and pointed to the shrinking money supply ( M1 is starting to shrink ) .

I asked him about the govt being able to borrow money without ever having to pay it back. He said that that was true, but then he pointed out that there is a huge amount of non-govt ( private ) debt.

Dick Hoskins appears to be concerned with various aspects, not only economic issues. He spoke of history, his roots to Scottish nobility, christianity, etc. I haven't read his books, but he said that his books had been banned under the guise of "revisionism". The articles I posted in May were taken from Nexus Magazine. The magazine articles omitted his bible quotes originally found in the book. An example of which might refer to an issue such as non mixing of races.

If you talk to him, and get anything interesting, be sure to post it.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:47 - ID#255284)
downunder, one sits on one's ass, the ass has four legs and is often called daisy, a famous carpenter rode one once. When you kiss your arse goodbye, will you also kiss your ass's arse?

Thanks for the tip, visualisation already being played in the movie in my thick skull, stereo music courtesy of Joe Ely. I had my hopes up high.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:47 - ID#207145)
You are a good man. You hide them hicory nuts, so you don't go hungry in winter. You will be fine.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:47 - ID#153102)
As soon as I understood that I had been the victim of fraud in succumbing to the solicitations to "register", I cancelled ab initio nunc pro tunc, felt like a weight lifted, and I've felt a little better ever since. They had a little cancellation form and I wrote the latin at the top.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:49 - ID#255284)
stealth blooper
Move at night and you stand out like dog's balls in infra red

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:49 - ID#280214)
I too am trying to sell off inventory I may not need.
Local sales are down pretty much across the board in this town.
Maybe this contributes to my poor outlook on things in general.
I figure this fall and Christmas retail season will be a bust.
But maybe my sales of Silver Eagles and small Gold MLs will pick up.

National figures may be an indicator of this downturn.
Consumer confidence fell three points in July

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:51 - ID#227238)
Gianni Dioro__A: Thanks for the additional comment. Sounds like an interesting fella. If able to add to your information I will, though I'm not sure I'm capable of asking him an intelligent question.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:53 - ID#207145)
Music does it for James Taylor. God do it for me. I seem to stumble around and find the right thing to do for my family. I have really good idea of what is to come. It is a showdown. I am a peaceful person so I hope to be.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:53 - ID#43460)
squirrel re 18:01 post
Sorry for the slow answer. I was practicing for y2k. With 2 lightning strikes followed by a third an hour later we blew out all the electronics in the house that weren't surge protected then spent some hours waiting for the power company to change out a transformer. I liked the peace and quiet but the rest of the family and neighbors didn't. IMHO

But I think that one has to consider those on the dole in any equation having to deal with wages, POG etc. as those hard rock miners you talk about are not just paying for themselves. They are paying about half their gross income to support one government program or another. I read somewhere that a 35 year old worker must live over age 100 to break even for social security. IMHO

But as a silver bug I did think it better putting the amount in pounds of silver vs ounces of gold. Remember all those old English classics like Tom Jones, Oliver Twist, etc where they talk about well to do people living on x number of pounds of silver per year?

John Disney__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 01:58 - ID#24135)
Worrisome ...
for Mozel ..
A bit stunned that story on US attitude in Nairobi
not in US press .. story was from FT .. headed
"Amazement, fury as US ignores Carnage".
It appears that the US Marines and personnel
refused to assist excavation at Ufundi House next
door to the Embassy .. despite appeals from Red
Cross the French and the Israelis who were helping the Kenyans dig.
They even refused requests for shovels and drills ( to
try to get air to Kenyans trapped underground ) .
Their priority was to seal off the embassy to search
for evidence in the terrorist attack. This is fine but
people were still alive under the rubble next door..
it seems they could have spared a little help and a
shovel or two.
For George ..
thanks .. wrote this before I saw your post
saying it was on CNN .. Was the FT article
reprinted anywhere.. or are all you guys on a need to know basis.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:00 - ID#280214)
Blooper & Bingo
You could get along quite a while on peanut butter & Golden honey.
And some chili or tuna to fill out the essential amino acids.

Maybe after Y2K a humble abode in an abandoned apartment building will look pretty good - especially if I keep the riff raff from destroying the place. Maybe a ton of food and a few Gold & Silver coins would be enough to entice somebody to move in with me. Survival is better if not solo. Yes? I guess this sounds like the "male thing" again - being a good provider and defender.
Maybe things won't be so dark after all - after Y2K.
If it fizzles I will truly be depressed.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:01 - ID#227238)
Mozel: I have remained on the roles only to vote nay on local tax issues. More to the point, my roommate punches out the correct little holes in the official card and so registers my official dissent. Hasn't meant much though. Local taxes continue to rise in spite of my official vote of protest. ....... "If voting could change things, it would outlawed", Erle, Kitco Proceedings, July 1998.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:01 - ID#255284)
What the Dickens?
That's the trouble, I don't remember any monetary measurements in Dickens, though I have read many of his books. Is a great writer, deserves to be read and re-read. IMHO, read "Hard Times" especially for his description of Europe in Depression.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:02 - ID#207145)
I like your train of thought. I referred to that point in the futute when Bingo believes his property will be siezed by a government. If this happens Bingo turns his card in. He may then kiss whatever he may......
If Jesus enters into this struggle, his entrance will be the last act, as he descends from heaven to cast the devil into the lake of fire. Tis is Armagghedon.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:05 - ID#287358)
Regarding your 1:30 post...

Depending on how well I have prepared for it, and, I suppose, luck of the
draw, I may or may not lose a lot during the coming Y2K crisis.
However, I will not lose or give up my integrity. No matter whether the
bank is a mom and pop or Bank of America, I agreed to pay them as per
contract. Personal integrity is required before we can pretend to judge
others, including our leaders.

"No, they can't take that away from me."

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:07 - ID#255284)
Not me.
bloops did I say that? I don't think so. You elaboration is inconsistent with my beliefs, and lack of them. aurator is an iconoclast.


(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:09 - ID#268404)
ruble support
I guess US decided it was more important to save the Ruble, rather then the Yen. Look at Ruble on the Globex.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:12 - ID#280214)
Gagnrad - it is cheaper being a silver bug
But Silver bucks a lot harder than gold does!

Since somebodies are determined to drive the POS under $5 or even $4,
then maybe I shall wait a bit to buy more. This depends also on how much of the present stock I can sell for a bit of profit. Just like my Golden Honey - turn the stock over and buy more!

I hope the Y2K storm cleans all the freeloaders off the roof and dead weight in the trunk so we can pursue more happiness to the dollar.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:16 - ID#153102)
@Disney @Earl
@Disney Went to the federal building where they do a magnetic search and strict scrutiny of civilians going in. On the way out I asked the Marshalls if they weren't going to search me on the way out or if they didn't care what I might do outside. They allowed they didn't.

All we civilians are on a need to know nuthin' basis over here.

@Earl Yeah, I recall the roomates made quite a fuss over not being able to "register". To outlaw liquor. Etc. I don't know how you would explain nonparticipation due to refusal for fraud to one of them roommates. Fake sick on Fraud Day I guess.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:17 - ID#207145)
Iconoclast. Are you a 2 handed or a 1 handed iconoclast..OOPS...excuse me I was thinking economist. You should be quite responsible then, as your own kind of..god.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:17 - ID#252150)
Blooper@America being attacked by MIRVS
May I suggest that you cut back on the coffee & increase the St. John's wort.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:20 - ID#207145)
James. You misquote me. I said we will be attacked.
Or do you not believe in Armagheddon. Or you under the impression all this might will never be unleashed?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:21 - ID#219363)
Little Faith
Have a little bit more faith in the metal. I don't know when it's going to go up, don't claim to at all, but I'm still firm on my belief that someday it will. I'm not calling for 30000$US or anything, I'm just calling for 350$US at some point, seems pretty reasonable to me. I hope people aren't heading for the exits just yet, especially the ones who've suffered through it all this far. I think if I had bought something and it had went down this far, in my mind I'd have to just write off the investment, pretend I never had the money, and move on. I would not, however, sell it and take the loss - I know "they say" not to approach an investment like that, but that's what I'd do anyway. At some point this investment is going to pay off, Gold has to recover. Gold isn't like buying a stock in a technology company, seeing it lose money, and holding it - it may never recover. In Gold's case, there isn't an option, it has to eventually recover, Gold can't go out of business or go out of style. There just hasn't been a fundamental change in the way the business operates, not anything major enough to justify 280$US Gold through eternity, so fear not, Gold's long-term is solid. I said in one of my first posts that I thought 280$US Gold was a buy, and I did buy, and I also said when it went up that if it went back down to 280$US I'd buy more, and that's what I intend to do. I understand that Gold has a long history of being a b*tch.

Cowboy Junkies - Trinity Session ( "Mining For Gold" )

We are miners, hard rock miners
To the shaft house we must go
Pour your bottles on our shoulders
We are marching to the slow

On the line boys, on the line boys
Drill your holes and stand in line
'til the shift boss comes to tell you
You must drill her out on top

Can't you feel the rock dust in your lungs?
It'll cut down a miner when he is still young
Two years and the silicosis takes hold
and I feel like I'm dying from mining for gold

Yes, I feel like I'm dying from mining for gold

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:23 - ID#280214)
Being a voter does have its rewards at times.
Such as defeating the blackmailing, corrupted, graft-ridden, nepotistic school board two years in a row for their bond issues. Yes! They may try it again this year and we will make it three in a row!!

I also voted some years back to support Colorado's tax limitation amendment - which passed and has caused no end of frustration for Colorado and local governments ever since. Yes again!!

As long as I vote, I figure I have griping rights. Having run for local office twice - and being defeated. I have no sympathy for those who whine and don't step up to the plate and run for office {especially when many local races are uncontested} OR WORSE - don't even vote for those who are trying to change things.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:25 - ID#207145)
Gold, money etc can go to hell in a handbasket
But there can be no nuclear war? Give me a break. Haywire is Haywire.
I hope none of these terrible things happen/ my point is don't MIRV Chinas ICBM arsenal

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:25 - ID#255284)
go kiss an ass

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:27 - ID#287358)
In debt to the bank
We had an open-house on Monday, with the announcement to our
friends and neighbors that we are selling our house. I hope to have a
deal firmed up in 30-60 days. Upon closing of the sale, and the writing of a few checks with the proceeds, I will be totally out of debt. However, I
will have disposed of my beautiful country home, and will be living
in town. A fair number of people who know my thoughts and concerns have asked me, "why on earth, then, are you moving out of your 'Y2K
hideaway?' " Twofold answer. First, the mortgage and related costs are
prohibitive, and with any significant business downturn, I would be in
trouble; and second, the house, while in a rather remote area, is made
virtually of glass, and absolutely impossible to protect or defend. I plan
to re-group my resources and plan again ( and fast ) to find a safe place.
I will allow any of the group who consider me an alarmist, to buy my
glass house. In all respects, I want to protect what I have.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:27 - ID#207145)
Let me remind you that CHINA has threatened Los Angeles.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:29 - ID#153102)
A man ought to set the best example he can, I guess, but, between you, me, and the gatepost, I don't think you are going to uplift a Banker with your conduct. He's going to compel performance if he can and they don't loan on character any more, I've noticed. So, far be it from me to discourage a missionary, but, for myself, my mind was eased somewhat when I learned that "Fraud deserves fraud" is a maxim of law, though not recommended as a morality by any means.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:31 - ID#207145)
You are what you are, I am what I am. Live and prosper. My responsibilities include not holding grudges, petty as they may be. You must look to yourself for answers. As far as i'm concerned you are up to it.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:31 - ID#284255)
All Is Not A-OK on Y2K

Plus lots of new news on Y2k

What happened to Hong Kong?
Did the cease trading at lunch time?

OZ SPI futures bouncing around all over the place.
Lots of volatility and uncertainess of direction.

I don't remember the Lucent one.
Brains a bit foggy.
Must be the paint fumes...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:34 - ID#207145)
Yes, I been smellin fumes too. Gulps to ya.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:35 - ID#280214)
I agree with Blooper and the other pessimistic doomsdayers
Clinton will/has delivered us into the hands of our enemies.
We will first be MIRVed to destroy our strong points.
Then the bases we have given them will be used against us
to establish beach-heads on our western shore.
But they shall make it no farther than the Great Basin...
militias in the north, mexicans in the south and Nevada miners
in the middle. The Rockies will clean up the survivors.
On that note I'll hit the sack - so to earn more Gold tomorrow.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:36 - ID#373284)
and I will stand for dANIEL...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:36 - ID#411259)
..... bloops said China threatened LA .....

I won't stand for it, I tell ya'
We gotta' hit 'em first
Afore they blast us all
As far as I'm concernd
bloops is up to it


He is

Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:37 - ID#384350)
mozel, I'm glad to share the knowledge. Also, your post made a great point and was something upon which I have been dwelling for a good year now without really being able to spit it out. That is, the point of the difficulty of saved money competing with money that is borrowed.

You wrote: "Usury enables credit or future funds to compete with savings or present funds. Future funds, being more imaginary than real, are simply less price sentitive than present funds, to which the labor and denial of saving are attached in memory, and that causes price to rise."

There have been accusations of people here seeming to wish for the debt-bubble ( markets ) to burst. I don't wish to see people suffer, however I would like to buy a house. I don't want to borrow. I want to pay cash. Is it fair that a house costs what it does today because most people borrow 90% of the price to buy it? Or worse yet, what of the speculator who buys house after house after house on borrowed money, and who now has become my landlord? What do I have to show for the rent I pay? Should people be punished because they choose not to borrow?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:38 - ID#219363)
Weaker tonight. Japan even, China up slightly ( 1.5 percent ) , Malaysia down ( 5.5 percent ) , Hong Kong down ( 4.0 percent ) , Singapore down ( 3 percent ) , Thiland down ( 2 percent ) , others more or less even. Probably not enough to send the DOW'sters to the exits, but I also doubt it's enough to spike a rally either.

France and Germany also opening down.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:38 - ID#226299)
@the scene
mozel -- HAR!!! My sentiments precisely!!! Also, I figure that if one can afford to pay them off then, then one certainly should be able to do it even much easier now.

John Disney__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:40 - ID#24135)
Tut tut tut Zi hello ...
to all
What I have seen of the Tutzi army looks pretty good.
I believe the Tutzis are head and shoulders above
most other Central Africans .. particularly Congolese.
I have no idea what their intentions are but they are
apparently operating in western Zaire along the Angolan
border as well as in the East. They put Kabila in power
in the first place ( while in the process of rounding
up their Hutu advisaries ) .
They have now discovered that Kabila ( heavily
endorsed by dumbnuts Mandela ) is simply a fat ape.
Possible fallout from this is a renewal of Savimbi
Unita activity in Angola ..
In my view .. Dos Santos of Angola is a bad guy
and Savimbi is a good guy. Savimbi was supported by
Mobuto ( bad guy but not UN style bad guy ) and that litle
good guy in Zambia ( name escapes me ) .
BUT Kabila it seems is in the same clique as
Kuanda Nyerere Mugabe ( all UN style bad guys ) . A Tutzi
takeover in Zaire would really upset this outfit
as well as the UN. It might also help Savimbi's chances
in Angola. ( Museveni in Uganda is unknown quantity..
probably a good guy ?? )
I would like to see central Africa recolonized by
the Tutzi. Things may get interesting.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:43 - ID#200300)
Hong Kong's Hang Seng Index fell 154 points or 2.25 percent to 6,705 points in early Thursday trade.
Hong Kong's Hang Seng Index fell 154 points or 2.25 percent to 6,705 points in early Thursday trade.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:44 - ID#153102)
I think it's great that you get this psychic payback from legitimizing the illegitimate with your participation. I mean, I remind you No State shall make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debt is a provision of the Constitution.

So, did your glorious tax limitation amendment victory apply to payments in gold and silver coin ?

no ? Then, who is this mafia you pay tax to. It ain't a constitutional state.

And what is a School Board ? Is there also a Hospital Board ? A Food Board ? A Transport Board ? To co-ordinate the provision of essential needs to the registered voters and regulate their activities along with the Zoning Board and the Licensing Board ?

Hellfire, here we are down to our undershorts, guns, and gold coins and starting to freak out over confiscation of property now that these are the only things we have left to our name. Vote, Squirrel, vote.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:44 - ID#190411)
Who was it? -Ambrose Bierce, or Saumuel Clemens, that said'
"An election is an advance sale of stolen property."

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:44 - ID#219363)
Morning John. I wonder, do you have any guess'timates on what the US markets might do in the coming months ? Curious what your thoughts are.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:45 - ID#207145)
Gianni Dioro
The unraveling is never as orderly as the raveling. Bubbles are dangerous. This bubble is venting. Come September it will let off more. Come October there will be a crash. Want one or not. Degree is the issue. I think a tradeable rally will ensue. We are where Japan was 9 years ago. We are going to have more than our share of trouble for years. I am sorry to say this. Hope I am wrong.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:46 - ID#200300)
HONG KONG, Aug 13 (Reuters) - Merrill Lynch International & Co., C.V. said on Thursday it had launch
HONG KONG, Aug 13 ( Reuters ) - Merrill Lynch International & Co., C.V. said on Thursday it had launched 400 million American style put warrants based on S&P 500 Index.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:47 - ID#255284)
There are times to borrow, and times to lend. Right now imho one should keep one's wealth within arm's reach. Least, that's what I'm doing.
I should like to add my voice to the chorus of thanks for the Babylon Banks links. Reminds me of "the Richest Man in Babylon" that has enriched several of us here. I wonder if Richard Hoskins could be encourage to sit around the fire at kitco? I know that JTF and others would like to see Anthony Sutton visit too.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:49 - ID#219363)
Does that mean they "wrote" millions of puts, or bought ?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:56 - ID#207145)
I am not a pessimistic doomsayer. I do read my bible. I understand well how we wind things up. I am optimistic. Then comes the devil and Clinton and the Chineese. He needed money. The devil had it. For our military secrets. Now that pisses me off. To think they have threatened the USA already. Now they can annihalate us. You friggin right I'm mad. But not depressed. You all better wake up, instead of attacking the messenger.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:56 - ID#226299)
@the scene
africanminer -- That means the S&P will go up, given that they proclaimed their purchase!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 02:57 - ID#252150)
Blooper@So America won't be attacked, but we will be attacked? If by we, you
mean Gold Bugs, I'm glad I renounced my Goldbuggery. As for believing in Armageddon. To be quite honest, as long as I have enough good microbrews & fine wine on hand I never give it any thought. Besides, you do enough worrying to take care of my share.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:00 - ID#226299)
@the scene
ERLE -- Certainly seems to always be the case. NO ballot should ever be allowed that does not have an election for 'none of the above'!!! And given that 'none of the above' wins, that's the way it stands 'till next election time. Perhaps they'd learn after a spell....

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:06 - ID#255284)
The sound of a toast to good sense, and humour.
Ting! Ting!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:07 - ID#207145)
James,if we are attacked, it will be with our technology

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:09 - ID#252150)
The important things in life
With Lara and Kaz
The golf may not have been great
But the wine was fine

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:09 - ID#207145)
James will be MIRVed by a Commie, hear all about it.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:13 - ID#153102)
@Pagan Ethics

Of the three bodies of ethics, Christian, Pagan, & Stoic, it seems the inhabitants of the Queen's countries have gravitated to Pagan from the postings on this board.

I don't think Stoic fits as well with sharing and caring government with royalty and titles as Pagan. Don't know why exactly.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:13 - ID#207145)
Youse guys deserve Clinton and China
May you sleep well knowing the democrats got their money from China, but lost the House anyway. Sold out secrets, then wasted the money!!!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:15 - ID#219363)
Nuclear Weapons
It's late, I'm bored, so I'll comment. *grin*.

It is disturbing. You don't hear a lot about nuclear weapons these days, a few blurbs in the papers on the back page about how Russia has exported fissionable materials, can't account for some plutonium, China with rockets, Pakistan and India testing, etc. Certainly more and more countries now have nuclear capabilities.

I tend to think that with such an awesome potential, someone will exploit it as leverage in some situation. That isn't really saying much. I do think that eventually someone is going to use them in anger, possibly against the United States. I don't see any reason for a large power to do so - to launch an ICBM at a country is just begging for the rest of the world to bring about your destruction, and there really isn't anything to be gained, even in the short-term. In the world-view, it's just not to anyone's advantage. But eventually some small group of zealots is going to get hold of one of these devices ( let's face it, they probably aren't that hard to acquire ) , and will use it to further their own vision of the world, their own dream. No reason for them to even need an ICBM, there are convenient road-signs all over America that lead people directly where they want to go to deliver weapons, sort of a world trade center bombing kind of thing.

If it were to ever happen, I don't think it would be the end of the world. It would be horrible, destroy massive amounts of property, claim millions of lives, and the world would weep - but I don't think it would end civilization as we know it. Human beings are a tough lot. Throw a fire cracker into an ant hill and the ants scatter, but they eventually regroup and build anew. People aren't that much different. The world would go on.

Once when I was living in Washington DC I had a nightmare about the detonation of a nuclear weapon in the capital. It was frightening, and I still remember the dream.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:16 - ID#255284)
Jung would call it archetype, perhaps

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:18 - ID#252150)
Aurator@A toast back at you.
Blooper-- MIRVS I could handle. As long as they don't try to drive us insane with loud, horrible music from huge speakers, like they did to those poor people in Waco. Only a truly twisted mind could conceive of something that terrible.

To bed and dream perchance, of peace & good will & the yellow brick road.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:20 - ID#207145)
Devoid of leadership. Willing to deal like Daniel Webster in blood. Our blood. Getting away with it because good me remain silent. You are right. I am depressed. But it's lack of courage that infuriates who Patric Henry.?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:22 - ID#153102)
By "it" you signify sharing and caring government with royalty and titles, I presume ?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:22 - ID#207145)
You are right. I'm too worn out to start with Jammet Reno and Waco. Goodnight my friend.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:27 - ID#219363)
All the european markets are down this morning.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:32 - ID#255284)
proclivity to same and to Paganism

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:34 - ID#284255)
Who is priming who???
In the last three days there has been two articles in our local paper.

The first one was from the local City Council;
Saying that at the moment they cannot guarantee continuation of supply of water or sewerage.
They are hopefull and optimistic that by the end of June next year they will be able to do so.

The second article was from our local electricty supplier saying basically the same thing.

Both articles were confident that by Y2k they would be there supplying their services as normal.

Seems like a mild warning.

Then my nephew who is doing Y2k remidation work has been contacted by the Cooktown Council to come and look at their water supply.
The currently have no idea where they stand.

Then one reads articles like this:

And from this one:

"The key is interoperability: all of the pieces must work together."

Who has their head stuck in the sand????

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:40 - ID#153102)
Should a saint cross my path bound for NZ with Gospel I shall cross his palm with coin in devout hope of thy salvation and increase in happiness and prosperity.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:41 - ID#284255)
Hong Kong afternoon rally??? - PPT???
But then Europe starts to plummet.
Globex now breaking to new lows.

Not goods signs for a Dow rally.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:41 - ID#226299)
@the scene
sharefin -- Heads in sand? Hell, who knows. There will be no definitive answer 'till after the fact. The answer is for each of us to NOT have our heads stuck in the sand. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 03:43 - ID#219363)
Agreed, not good signs. European markets dropped equivilent of 200 DOW points already, and Hong Kong is still down 3 percent on the day.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 04:00 - ID#340344)
Hello, mozel...
Thank you for your 2:29. One point I'd like to make is that I have no intention, no dream, of uplifting a Banker with my "policies." I despise
bankers almost universally. What I do, I do for myself ( my Self ) . The
Banker who lends me money is not a bad guy. He is merely doing what a banker does. When I borrow money from him, I am agreeing to play his game. I own that decision. I agree to the rules he has set forth, even
if I find some of them not to my liking. It is too frequent that I hear statements such as, "I would stiff the big corporation/government/
rich guy on the block/whomever, but I wouldn't stiff/cheat/go bankrupt on
small guys/mom & pops/guys like you and me." Those thoughts are easily
spoken/written. It seems to me that some people speak/write those out of
habit, or from hearing/reading other people doing same. I recall reading long ago that, "Integrity is a wonderful concept. If it didn't already exist, it should be invented." [Earl Nightengale] I would be happier knowing that more thought, or soul-searching, if you will, would go into what we share with others. I don't mean to be singling out Squirrel. Just the concept. Squirrel may have saved my life last month, although he doesn't know it. He is one of my favorite posters.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 04:02 - ID#284255)
I bet the fumes you're sniffing are better than mine.
Enamel is not the same as brandy.

Someone certainly has their head in the sand.
If this is an average poll of providor's in the US - watch out

Read this and wonder who the h*ll is doing something.
I am amazed at the responses to this poll.
Damn scary.

You can watch Europe in slow motion.

It looks like a bad day coming.
Many global indices are at pivot points and should now rally.
To break these support levels points to nasty drops coming.
All is not good.
The global PPT needs to get busy or down we go hard.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 04:02 - ID#153102)
@In Denial
Are the Europeans in denial over Y2K or are the onlookers in denial over the Euro ?

Though our present government vastly overrates the value of steel and lead for keeping the peace, still, Sheepland excepted, of course, they do equalize on the physical plane of existence and are necessary for the people to keep the peace. So, I have sought and been blessed to find some additional, sans paperwork, naturally. In and of themselves they do not increase my security. Because they do not light my path.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 04:13 - ID#153102)
@ChasAbar Quite so.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 04:27 - ID#219363)
It's so hard to predict what might happen to the American markets over the short-term. Yesterday's rally was so lackluster, yet everyone is expecting a quick rally with possible losses on the other side. But when we get such a lame rally, who knows, maybe it's downhill from here. I had a much easier time a month ago, even a few weeks ago, it was much easier to predict a drop-off, it just had to happen. Now after a couple of hundred point loss it's not quite as clear. I'm still convinced there's a lot of down-side through October - after that, anybodies guess.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 04:42 - ID#250121)
All Saint Gaudens are welcome downunder. Keep the Gospels on your side of the Pacific. The London Missionary Society filled many bellies once.

As for bankers, I wonder if this "unservice" trend has hit the US? With so many retailers accepting EFTPOS transactions, the banks are closing offices in many places. My bank of 25 years shut its door in my locality last year, my banking has become an inconvenience, needing too much travel. I decided to open an account in another bank today and was told "this is only an agency" open from 1-4.00 pm we don't have the full range of banking services" "What do you mean?" says I. "We can't offer you a CashPoint ( EFTPOS ) card." said the unhelpful helper. "What, never?" says I incredulously "Yes " came the reply.

The bank that doesn't have customer services. I am looking elsewhere.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 04:49 - ID#253418)
Well here we go agian
Asia pulls Europe down, but interestingly the metals have not dropped much though they are right on the edge. South African golds down a good 3%+ . I think I'll put in a small order to buy HGMCY in Disney's long ago buy zone of 3 1/2+/-.

Seems the Russian managed to do something to restore momentary confidence in their currency if Globex is correct.

Hours ago somebody asked about trader APH's positions, lest he no speak for himelf he mentioned to me last night that he was long DEC Wheat at $2.70 which sent me looking for old charts. ( Lowest prices since 1977 ) Wheat jumped 5 cents yesterday.

He also was looking for $5.10 silver as a buy and $276 Dec Gold. ( He though silver might have seen its lows at $5.15 but with London trading at $5.14 we can assume he was at least one cent off.

I'm watching last night's high of $5.25 as a reversal point. Some green stamps and frequent flyer miles were offer to willing lessors of silver to induce them to sell at that point and the market quickly reversed. With the dollar index and bonds raging higher I doubt a reversal of that point and a reversal of the strenght in those indexes will occur at the same time - its the divergence that would excite me.

Oh, re silver fundlementals SAM, notice that Armstrong says that Ukertistan, some Russian country, has 300 million oz of silver for sale. Where did that come from???? Talk about secret supplies....

(Thu Aug 13 1998 04:50 - ID#219363)
Looks like today might be a pretty bad day for US markets afterall. Every European market is down over one percent, some much more than that.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 05:02 - ID#253418)
ENVY re today's market
Looks like all hoping to sell a little higher rally will not get the chance here. We've given up about 2/3rd of yesterday's bounce. I'd expect a rally from yesterday's lows, a failure and a hard tank. It will be very interesting to see if the gold stocks follow down. If they don't I'd say its time to consider the divergence between gold and the markets is beginning. I think the key now is Russia, if she should crater - look out way below.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 05:08 - ID#22584)
Can I converse with you off Kitco? I need a little advice about buying gold coins in NZ. My e-mail: antion@aloha.met
I'm off to bed so I'll get back to you tomorrow.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 05:10 - ID#22584)
aurator-wrong e-mail address
Sorry, I'm kind of sleepy. It's

(Thu Aug 13 1998 05:18 - ID#288295)
@mozel @ 500K sale of DROOY

Scanning back through posts of a few days ago, I believe it was you inquiring about a 500K block trade of DROOY....I have no way of knowing for sure, but some pretty reliable information from around the Dec-Jan time frame, indicated that Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank was a very big buyer around the winter lows. Of course, other large institutional owners probably exist - this is the only one I've seen named.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 05:23 - ID#284255)
EMU Currency Will Change European Telephony Services
As huge as it is, he said, the Year 2000 problem, in essence, presents the same problem over and over again. Euro implementation problems, on the other hand, are more varied and diverse.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 05:27 - ID#253418)
RED FLUSH in Europe
This doesn't look pretty. Must be Russian concerns and technical breakdown. CNBC Europe comes on soon and we'll get a better idea.

To John Disney - how about SGOLY at 2 1/2 - worth a plunge.???

Gold up 20 cents on Globex or Access or ... Silver has been as low as $512 must be the Ukratistan ( sp ) 300 million oz of silver.

Anybody see anything on the Platinum Group..??

The currencies have all reversed from down to up with the YEN leading the rise. Bonds have given up some of their gains . . . is this the divergence we've be looking for????

Bet the Europeans will start doing some diversification first.. Don't know it by the So African gold down 3.5% with rand at 6.36

Come in J. Disney, where are you.????

(Thu Aug 13 1998 05:43 - ID#261155)
@ blooper
I would sure like to have an url to that Jake berstiens web page....
please and thanks....if that will help!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 05:52 - ID#26793)
"This is Black Thursday for Russia"

(Thu Aug 13 1998 05:57 - ID#26793)
No sign of BOJ intervention in support of yen yet.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 05:58 - ID#252391)
German Banks hardest hit...
by fears of Russian devaluation. Gold in London up 20 cents silver trimming losses to four cents - oil up 15 cents

Interesting day ahead - S&P Globex is off 900


(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:01 - ID#284275)
@mooney re Golden Pigs - I found 'em!

In Korea, found the pigs. What's the budget? Email me at


(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:01 - ID#26793)
Bank of Canada taking heat over mismanagement of "Northern Peso"

(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:07 - ID#26793)
Argentina says financial turmoil is no big deal

Cage Rattler
(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:08 - ID#33184)
Russian one month GKO T Bill yields rise near close as high as 210%.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:10 - ID#26793)
Mexico says financial turmoil is no big deal

(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:14 - ID#26793)
White House sooths over Russian concerns.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:16 - ID#26793)
The fundamentals are sound.
This is a recording. The fundamentals are sound. This is a recording. The fundamentals are sound.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:17 - ID#286230)
Bema Gold hit by mechanical failure

(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:20 - ID#26793)
Gold comment: "It's these Americans again; I don't know what they are playing at"

(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:27 - ID#26793)
Freeport-Indonesia gold news

(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:33 - ID#286199)
JSE gold down 5%....^JGAI&d=1d

Sept Yen at 144.7

(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:37 - ID#26793)
Euro News, Russia News, early gold prices

Bully Beef
(Thu Aug 13 1998 06:54 - ID#259282)
Don.. I don't think they announce interventions...
They want to burn the shorts so they will stop shrting.Intervention will come like lightning and without warning.Don you are displaying humour this morning.Stop that.Stop THAT stop THat . OH you have brightened my day with the Canadian peso story...NOT!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:18 - ID#35571)
SIU8 5.095
Looks like they bought Armstrong's Ukranian silver story. He's going to make some short money today.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:19 - ID#286199)
Spot silver is 5.11
Spot gold is 283.00
Spot Yen is 145.65

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:24 - ID#411440)
(Boomberg) S&P Futures -8.4 (same as yesterday this time but in
opposite direction )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:27 - ID#289357)
Hmmmmmmmm ~90,000 oz Gold out of Comex, and elligible stocks are unchanged?

COMEX stocks breakdown 8/12/1998


980,761 Registered ( - 89,598 )
103,370 Elligible ( no change )

1,084,131 Total ( - 89,598 )


40,181,321 Registered ( no change )
38,701,989 Elligible ( - 252,334 )

78,883,310 Total ( - 242,334 )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:28 - ID#289357)
COMEX silver
Where's all that new Ukranian silver?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:28 - ID#411440)
to all: any truth to that story about former Soviet state
having 300 million oz silver hoard? That would take a huge chunk out
of the short overhang, if they sell it. What is the source for this

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:29 - ID#286199)
Great Central Mines Limited Reports
1998 Gross Profit of US$39.7 Million

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:32 - ID#267255)
Russ Savage ????
Would someone please be kind enough to post a contact number for Russ Savage?


(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:32 - ID#426220)
Y2K WHAT IF SCENARIO by A Retired Policeman

Someone needs to alert the general public. Someone needs to drive the message home that if and when it comes down to the real nut cutting, each man will understandably run to protect his own family. Subsequently, I feel someone should do an essay about possible scenarios if the Y2K bug is more severe than some think it to be. Where it also affects the Police Force.

Who but a retired law enforcement officer could tell a more credible story of what might happen?! Following is a candid, down to earth view of what a retired Law Enforcement Officer foresees as a possible worse case scenario. It is a very credible story.

It's necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before posting it to the web:

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:33 - ID#248180)
Russian Officials Reject Soros Devaluation Plan

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:37 - ID#35571)
The DOW has been tracking pretty close to it's expected course based on seasonally adjusted correllation:

So had the S&P 500, but it's begun to sag quite a bit lately:

The future indices are all down this morning and after yesterday's tremendous gain in the market we would have expected something of a fall back this morning anyway......

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:39 - ID#434108)
Homestake Mining
- has one of the better-looking charts, of major U.S. gold producers.

Friday July 24, 7:31 am Eastern Time

Company Press Release

Homestake Reports Second Quarter Results



-- Homestake reported a net loss of $30.9 million or 15 cents per share in the second quarter of
1998 compared to a net loss of $64.9 million or 31 cents per share in the second quarter of 1997.
Excluding the effects of nonrecurring items, Homestake recorded a net loss of $13.3 million or 6
cents per share in the second quarter of 1998 compared to a net loss of $14.9 million or 7 cents
per share in 1997.


-- Consolidated gold production for the second quarter of 1998 increased to 656,600 ounces at a
cash cost of $201 per ounce from 626,700 ounces at a cash cost of $254 per ounce in the
previous year.


-- Drilling programs are underway at the Ruby Hill and Pinson mines in Nevada and at the Eskay
Creek mine in British Columbia.

-- Promising drill results are occurring at the Mt Morgans joint venture property in Western


-- The acquisition by Homestake of Plutonic Resources Limited ( ``Plutonic'' ) was completed on
April 30, 1998. Homestake issued approximately 64.4 million shares with a market value of
approximately $770 million to effect the transaction. The acquisition has been accounted for as a
pooling of interests and, accordingly, information for all prior periods has been restated to include

-- On May 25, 1998 Homestake announced an offer to purchase the remaining common shares of
Prime Resources Group Inc. [AMEX:PRU - news] that it does not already own. Under the offer,
Prime minority shareholders would have the option to receive 0.675 of a Homestake common
share or 0.675 of a Homestake Canada, Inc. Exchangeable Share for each Prime share they own.
Prime Resources owns 100% of the Eskay Creek mine, one of the highest grade gold and silver
mines in the world, and 100% of the Snip mine, a small, high-grade gold mine that is expected to
cease production in the first quarter of 1999

SAN FRANCISCO-- ( BUSINESS WIRE ) --July 24, 1998-- Homestake Mining Company
( NYSE: HM, ASX:HSM ) , today reported a net loss of $30.9 million or 15 cents per share in the
second quarter of 1998 compared to a net loss of $64.9 million or 31 cents per share in the second
quarter of 1997. The latest quarter includes after-tax nonrecurring charges of $15 million or 7 cents
per share related to the Plutonic acquisition and $2.6 million or 2 cents per share for write-downs
of exploration properties. Results for the 1997 quarter include an after-tax charge of $50 million or
24 cents per share from write-downs taken primarily at the Mt Morgans mine and the Meekatharra
exploration property. After adjusting for nonrecurring items, the loss was $13.3 million or 6 cents
per share in 1998 compared to $14.9 million or 7 cents per share in 1997. The improved results
reflect a substantial decline in total cash costs, higher production and reduced exploration
expenditures. These factors were offset in part by a significant decline in the gold price, higher
mark-to-market losses on foreign exchange contracts and increased depreciation, depletion and
amortization expenses primarily due to higher sales volumes.

Gold production in the second quarter of 1998 was 656,600 ounces compared to 626,700 ounces
produced in the 1997 quarter. Significant production increases were achieved at the Ruby Hill mine,
which commenced commercial production at the beginning of the year, and at the Eskay Creek,
Williams, Lawlers, La Falda, Round Mountain and McLaughlin mines. Production declined at the
Homestake, Plutonic and Snip mines.

Homestake sold 693,800 ounces of gold at an average price of $316 per ounce in the latest quarter
compared to sales of 610,900 ounces at an average price of $362 per ounce in the second quarter
of last year.

Cash costs in the second quarter of 1998 declined by 21% to $201 per ounce from $254 per
ounce in 1997. Major cost reductions occurred at the Homestake, McLaughlin, Williams, David
Bell, Eskay Creek and Lawlers mines and at the Super Pit. Costs increased at the Plutonic and
Darlot/Centenary mines.

The net loss for the first six months of 1998 was $37.5 million or 18 cents per share compared to a
net loss of $16.6 million or 8 cents per share in 1997. The net loss for the first half of 1998 includes
after-tax charges of $17.7 million or 8 cents per share for business combination and integration
costs related to the acquisition of Plutonic, $5.9 million or 3 cents per share in restructuring costs
relating to the Homestake mine and $2.6 million or 2 cents per share for write-downs of exploration
properties. The net loss for the six months of 1997 includes after-tax gains of $47.2 million or 22
cents per share from the break-up fee received from Santa Fe Pacific Gold Corporation upon
termination of Homestake's merger agreement with Santa Fe and $8.1 million or 4 cents per share
from the sale of joint venture interests in two mining properties in the Northwest Territories of
Canada and an after-tax loss of $50 million or 24 cents per share primarily related to the
write-downs at the Mt Morgans mine and the Meekatharra exploration property. Cash generated
from operations for the first six months of 1998 was $63.8 million compared to $109.8 million for
the first six months of 1997. Cash and short-term investments amounted to $284 million at June 30,
1998, an increase of $19 million since the end of 1997.

Commenting on the latest quarterly results, Jack E. Thompson, President and Chief Executive
Officer said ``The integration of the Plutonic assets with those of Homestake has gone very
smoothly and is almost completed. We have retained a large number of motivated, highly qualified
operating and exploration people from the Plutonic organization who will contribute substantially to
our future growth. For the next few months, our most important task will be to increase
underground development at the Plutonic and Centenary mines. This will lead to significant cost
reductions and increased production at both of these operations in the future. Our continuing efforts
to optimize production and reduce costs at all operations have been a huge success and have
transformed Homestake into a much stronger and more competitive company.''


United States

At the Homestake mine, underground production was suspended in late January while a new
underground mine plan was implemented. Since then, most of the gold production has come from
the lower-cost Open Cut. Gold production for the quarter was 70,400 ounces at a cash cost of
$256 per ounce compared to 97,900 ounces at $330 per ounce in the previous year. Underground
production resumed in April at a reduced rate. Once the new mine plan is fully implemented, annual
production is expected to be between 150,000 and 180,000 ounces at a cash cost of $280 per

Gold production at the McLaughlin mine increased to 34,800 ounces from 30,900 ounces in the
prior year due to a combination of higher ore grades and an increase in mill throughput. These
factors together with lower unit operating and maintenance costs resulted in a significant reduction in
cash costs to $201 per ounce in 1998 from $254 per ounce in the second quarter of 1997. The
McLaughlin mine has processed stockpiled ore since active mining operations ceased in 1996.

Homestake's 25% share of the gold production from the Round Mountain mine increased by 4,000
ounces in the second quarter of 1998 to 36,500 ounces compared to 32,500 ounces in the second
quarter of 1997. The production increase was due almost entirely to the new milling facility
commissioned in the second half of 1997. Homestake's share of mill production was approximately
6,200 ounces in the latest quarter. Cash costs declined to $194 per ounce in the 1998 quarter
compared to $204 per ounce in the corresponding quarter of the prior year as operations continue
to benefit from the new mine plan implemented last year. The new pit design has led to a lower
stripping ratio that has reduced unit costs, capital requirements and reclamation expenses,
substantially improving earnings and cash flow over the life of the operation.

The Ruby Hill mine achieved commercial production on January 1, 1998 as scheduled. Gold
production for the second quarter was 30,400 ounces at a cash cost of $123 per ounce.
Production at Ruby Hill continues to exceed initial projections due to processing 12% more tons
than planned and to a higher gold recovery rate. The grade of ore processed to date has been
slightly lower than planned.


Second quarter 1998 production at the Eskay Creek mine increased to 130,000 gold equivalent
ounces from 100,900 gold equivalent ounces in the corresponding period of 1997. Although the
gold grade has been consistently above projections this year, most of the production increase can
be attributed to a lower silver to gold equivalency ratio and excellent performance from the
gravity/flotation mill installed last year to process lower- grade ore. Cash costs ( including third-party
smelter charges ) fell to $134 per ounce in the second quarter of 1998 from $157 per ounce last
year, reflecting the higher production and a decline in the Canadian/U.S. dollar exchange rate.

Operations at the 50%-owned Williams mine improved significantly compared to the second
quarter of last year. Gold production increased to 50,900 ounces at a cash cost of $209 per ounce
in 1998 from 42,800 ounces at a cash cost of $272 per ounce in 1997. The higher production was
attributable to an increase in tons milled and an increase in the ore grade. Cash costs were sharply
lower reflecting increased production, improved ground conditions and lower underground
development costs.

At the 50%-owned David Bell mine, gold production in the second quarter of 1998 was 22,900
ounces compared to 20,800 ounces in the second quarter of 1997, mainly as a result of an increase
in tons milled. Cash costs fell to $180 per ounce from $213 per ounce in the second quarter of
1997 due to lower mining costs.

Production from the Snip mine was 26,800 ounces at a cash cost of $203 per ounce in the latest
quarter compared to 31,300 ounces at a cash cost of $216 per ounce in the 1997 quarter. The
decline in production reflected the mining of lower-grade ore. However, costs still declined as the
reduction in the ore grade was more than offset by lower mining and service costs due to higher
labor productivity.


Total production at Kalgoorlie was little changed at 104,800 ounces in the second quarter of 1998
compared to 107,000 ounces in last year's second quarter. A small decline in mill throughput due to
a planned relining of the SAG mill and an unscheduled shutdown to inspect and repair damage to
the mill girth gear was offset by the mining of higher-grade ore from the Super Pit. Cash costs in
1998 declined to $219 per ounce from $279 per ounce in 1997, attributable to lower costs and the
decline in value of the Australian dollar in relation to the U.S. dollar.

In the second quarter of 1998, gold production at the Plutonic mine dropped to 55,700 ounces at a
cash cost of $247 per ounce compared to 73,900 ounces at $218 per ounce in the prior year's
second quarter. Plutonic is now totally an underground operation as the open pit was mined out in
1997. Mill feed from underground operations was somewhat below expectations in the last quarter
as lode structures in the NW Extension were flatter and less continuous than anticipated, making
mining more difficult. However, current drilling already has succeeded in defining higher-grade lode
structures in areas where production will commence in the third quarter.

Gold production for the latest quarter at the Darlot/Centenary mine declined to 14,700 ounces in
1998 from 16,100 ounces in the 1997 quarter as ore was sourced predominantly from the
lower-grade Darlot orebody. Consequently, cash costs increased to $289 per ounce in 1998 from
$271 per ounce in 1997. Development of the low-cost, high-grade Centenary deposit has been
delayed somewhat as a result of a change of mine contractors. Initial production from the Centenary
deposit is expected to take place by the end of the third quarter.

Production this year from the Lawlers mine has been well above expectations. For the second
quarter of 1998, gold output increased to 30,800 ounces compared to 18,500 ounces in the
comparable period in the previous year. Ore grades, particularly from the New Holland South
underground zone, and the recovery rate from the gravity circuit both have been higher than
anticipated. As a result, cash costs declined to $203 per ounce compared to $232 per ounce in
1997. Work has commenced on a second decline to access the deeper lode structures of the New
Holland South zone.

Homestake's 80% share of gold production from Mt Morgans was 15,100 ounces in the latest
quarter at a cash cost of $222 per ounce compared to 16,500 ounces at a cost of $411 per ounce
in the comparable 1997 quarter. Cash costs declined substantially despite the drop in production
due to higher than expected ore grades and recoveries from stockpiled ore. Mt Morgans is
scheduled to cease operations in September. However, recent exploration results have been very
promising, and could result in extending the life of this mine if additional ore is located.


At the La Falda mine, second quarter 1998 gold production increased to 12,700 ounces compared
to 8,300 ounces in 1997 primarily due to higher recoveries. Cash costs declined to $191 per ounce
from $203 per ounce. At present, oxide ore is being mined and heap leached while metallurgical
work continues on the much larger, predominantly unoxidized Jeronimo orebody. Recent tests of
bioleaching techniques have been encouraging and testing to determine the best method for
extracting gold from ore will continue. A decline is being developed to access the deeper sulfide ore
so that a large sample of this ore can be obtained for large scale metallurgical testing.


Homestake expects to spend approximately $58 million for exploration in 1998. Approximately
30% of this amount is allocated to North America and 50% is planned for Australia. Australia has
become a high priority as a result of the many promising exploration projects acquired as part of the
Plutonic transaction in April of this year.

North America

A significant portion of the North American exploration program will be focused on areas around
existing mines, particularly the Ruby Hill and Pinson mines in the United States and the Eskay Creek
mine in Canada. At Ruby Hill, most of this year's program has been designed to discover additional
near- surface oxide zones similar to the West Archimedes deposit currently being mined. Initial
results have been encouraging.

At the Pinson mine, a joint venture between Homestake and Barrick Gold Corporation
[NYSE:ABX - news], the partners have agreed to spend $5.5 million for capital to extend the life
of the mine for three more years. Additionally, a total of $6 million has been allocated to a drilling
program designed to test for high-grade sulfide ore at depth in rocks similar to those that host the
nearby Turquoise Ridge deposit.

Drilling below the #4 stope of the 21B zone at Eskay Creek has intersected additional high-grade
material, which will add an estimated 100,000 ounces of gold and four million ounces of silver to
existing reserves. Drilling also is underway to evaluate mineralization that underlies the existing
orebody. Geologic mapping and geochemical sampling programs on the nearby Prime block of the
Corey property commenced in May to define drill targets.


Western Australia

At the Super Pit, a drilling program is underway to provide more detailed information for cutback
development and the identification of possible additional reserves. Drilling at the adjacent Mt.
Charlotte mine has intersected some additional mineralized material.

At Mt Morgans, recent diamond drilling has returned very encouraging results at the Just In Case

At Lawlers, an aircore drilling program at Leviathan North has defined a strongly mineralized trend
with a strike length of 4,000 feet. Work is continuing.

At the Plutonic mine property, drilling is underway to test for both shallow oxide deposits and
deeper sulfide mineralization.

A drill program in the Centenary East area at Darlot commenced in the second quarter to extend
mineralization at depth. Initial results have been encouraging.

At the Albany-Fraser district of the Kundip joint venture, work is continuing to identify additional
soil anomalies for drill testing.

Eastern Australia

At the Junction Reef prospect in New South Wales, adjacent to Newcrest Mining's Cadia and
Ridgeway deposits, deep diamond drilling at the Goolies Prospect intersected 1,600 feet of material
containing some copper and with anomalous gold values. Further drilling is planned.

In Queensland, a geophysical survey recently completed at the Twin Hills prospect has identified at
least three new targets that appear to be similar to the previously discovered Lone Star and 309
deposits. Drilling of these targets will occur in the third quarter of 1998.


Senior Management Changes

In North America, Walter T. Segsworth was appointed Vice President, Canada effective April 13,
1998. He will also serve as President and Chief Executive officer at Homestake Canada Inc. and
President and Chief Executive Officer of Prime Resources Group Inc.

In Australia, Jeffrey J. Gresham has been named General Manager of Exploration and Terry A.
Stark has been appointed General Manager of Operations.

Homestake Mining Company is an international gold mining company based in the United States
with substantial gold operations and exploration in the United States, Australia and Canada. The
Company also has active gold exploration programs in Latin America and in Eastern Europe, and
development and/or evaluation projects in Chile and Bulgaria. Homestake currently produces
approximately 2.5 million ounces of gold annually from 16 operating mines. Common shares of the
Company are listed on the New York Stock Exchange, the Australian Stock Exchange and the
Basel, Geneva and Zurich Stock Exchanges in Switzerland. Homestake has received numerous
industry environmental and safety awards for its responsible environmental health and safety

Certain statements contained in this press release that are not statements of historical facts are
``forward looking statements'' within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of
1995. Such statements are based on beliefs of management, as well as assumptions made by and
information currently available to management. Forward looking statements include those preceded
by the words ``believe,'' ``estimate,'' ``expect,'' ``intend,'' ``will,'' and similar expressions, and
include estimates of future production, costs per ounce, dates of construction completion, costs of
capital projects and commencement of operations. Forward-looking statements are subject to
risks, uncertainties and other factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from
expected results. Some important factors and assumptions that could cause actual results to differ
materially from expected results are discussed below. Those listed are not exclusive.

Estimates of future production for particular properties and for the Company as a whole are derived
from annual mine plans that have been developed based on mining experience, reserve estimates,
assumptions regarding ground conditions and physical characteristics of ore ( such as hardness and
metallurgical characteristics ) , and expected rates and costs of production. Actual production may
vary for a variety of reasons, such as the factors described above, ore mined varying from estimates
of grade and metallurgical and other characteristics, mining dilution, actions by labor, and
government imposed restrictions. Estimates of production from properties and facilities not yet in
production are based on similar factors but there is a greater likelihood that actual results will vary
from estimates due to a lack of actual experience. Cash cost estimates are based on such things as
past experience, reserve and production estimates, anticipated mining conditions, estimated costs of
materials, supplies and utilities, and estimated exchange rates. Noncash cost estimates are based on
total capital costs and reserve estimates, and change based on actual amounts of unamortized
capital and changes in reserve estimates. Estimates of future capital costs are based on a variety of
factors and include past operating experience, estimated levels of future production, estimates by
and contract terms with third party suppliers, expectations as to government and legal requirements,
feasibility reports by company personnel and outside consultants, and other factors. Capital cost
estimates for new projects are subject to greater uncertainties than additional capital costs for
existing operations. Estimated time for completion of capital projects is based on such factors as the
Company's experience in completing capital projects, and estimates provided by and contract terms
with contractors, engineers, suppliers and others involved in design and construction of projects.
Estimates reflect assumptions about factors beyond the Company's control, such as the time
government agencies take in processing applications, issuing permits and otherwise completing
processes required under applicable laws and regulations. Actual time to completion can vary
significantly from estimates.

Homestake Mining Company
Statements of Consolidated Operations

( In thousands, except per share amounts )

Three Months Ended Six Months Ended
June 30 June 30
1998 1997 1998 1997

Gold and ore sales $210,687 $214,393 $405,026 $442,218
Sulfur and oil sales 5,665 6,842 11,798 13,794
Interest income 5,218 4,797 9,477 9,106
Gain on termination
of Santa Fe merger - - - 62,925
Other income ( 26,285 ) 28 ( 14,799 ) 15,355
-------- ------- -------- -------
195,285 226,060 411,502 543,398

Costs and expenses
Production costs 142,749 154,831 278,306 319,721
Deprec.& depl. 37,402 34,047 73,492 73,590
Admin. & general 11,272 12,029 23,837 21,821
Exploration 11,509 18,138 21,806 30,073
Interest expense 5,216 5,413 10,328 10,281
Write-downs and other
unusual charges 2,905 65,115 11,784 65,115
Business combination and
integration costs 17,934 - 20,710 -
Other expense 419 2,785 798 3,427
------- ------- ------- -------
229,406 292,358 441,061 524,028

Income ( loss ) before taxes
and minority int. ( 34,121 ) ( 66,298 ) ( 29,559 ) 19,370
Income & mining taxes 4,878 3,858 ( 2,342 ) ( 31,047 )
Minority interests ( 1,688 ) ( 2,417 ) ( 5,616 ) ( 4,924 )
------- ------- ------- -------
Net loss $ ( 30,931 ) $ ( 64,857 ) $ ( 37,517 ) $ ( 16,601 )

Net loss
per share - basic
and diluted $ ( 0.15 ) $ ( 0.31 ) $ ( 0.18 ) $ ( 0.08 )

Average shares
outstanding 211,060 210,567 210,860 210,534

Homestake Mining Company
Consolidated Balance Sheets

( In thousands )

June 30 Dec. 31
1998 1997


Cash and short-term investments $ 283,918 $ 265,304
Other current assets 166,276 179,980
Net property, plant and equipment 932,734 1,021,147
Other assets 122,533 143,103
--------- ---------
Total $1,505,461 $1,609,534

Liabilities and Shareholders' Equity

Accounts payable and accrued
liabilities $ 142,436 $ 128,848
Long-term debt 356,069 374,593
Other long-term liabilities 143,871 152,610
Deferred income and mining taxes 146,105 161,862
Minority interests 112,232 108,116
Shareholders' equity 604,748 683,505
--------- ---------
Total $1,505,461 $1,609,534

Homestake Mining Company
Statements of Consolidated Cash Flows

( In thousands )
Six months ended
June 30
1998 1997

Net loss $ ( 37,517 ) $ ( 16,601 )

Reconciliation to net cash provided
by operations:
Depreciation, depletion and
amortization 73,492 73,590
Write-downs 2,905 65,115
Deferred taxes, minority interests
and other ( 21,575 ) 11,332
Gains on asset disposals ( 1,844 ) ( 17,884 )
Effect of changes in operating
working capital items 48,311 ( 5,798 )
------- --------
Net cash provided by operations 63,772 109,754

Capital additions ( 33,894 ) ( 101,897 )
Proceeds from asset sales 7,841 15,451
Increase in short-term
investments ( 11,308 ) ( 33,630 )
Other 113 ( 2,603 )
------ --------
Total investment activities ( 37,248 ) ( 122,679 )

Borrowings - 27,917
Debt repayments ( 8,024 ) -
Dividends paid - Homestake ( 7,339 ) ( 14,670 )
- Plutonic ( 3,554 ) ( 9,768 )
- Prime minority
interests ( 1,040 ) ( 1,085 )
Common shares issued 1,038 808
Other 2,531 2,655
------- ------
Total financing activities ( 16,388 ) 5,857

Net increase ( decrease ) in cash
and equivalents $ 10,136 $ ( 7,068 )

Homestake Mining Company

Three Months Ended June 30

Second Quarter - 1998

Tons Average
Percent Processed Grade Ounces
Interest ( thousands ) ( oz/ton ) Produced

Homestake 100 510 0.147 70.4
Ruby Hill 100 335 0.104 30.4
McLaughlin 100 715 0.082 34.8
Round Mountain 25 3,562 0.016 36.5
Pinson 50 249 0.038 4.5
Marigold 33 219 0.030 6.0

Eskay Creek 100 42 3.250 130.0
Williams 50 339 0.157 50.9
David Bell 50 64 0.369 22.9
Quarter Claim 25 - - 2.8
Snip 100 41 0.720 26.8

Kalgoorlie 50 2,758 0.069 104.8
Plutonic 100 821 0.077 55.7
Darlot/Centenary 100 195 0.080 14.7
Lawlers 100 159 0.205 30.8
Mt Morgans 80 242 0.074 15.1
Peak Hill 67 121 0.056 6.8

Agua de la Falda 100 85 0.191 12.7

Total Production 656.6
Minority Interests ( 83.7 )
( 69.5 )

Homestake's Share 572.9

Homestake Mining Company

Three Months Ended June 30

Second Quarter - 1997

Tons Averag

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:39 - ID#35571)
Maybe in London?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:43 - ID#434108)
Homestake Mining
go to, for more info., news items, & copyright restrictions:

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:43 - ID#35571)
@Bully Beef
I think you're right. They either HAVE an intervention or else they threaten an intervention. Just like in the movies, once they threaten to pull the trigger you know the guy, somehow, isn't going to get shot.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:44 - ID#35571)
Now you've done it. Goodbye Homestake.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:44 - ID#289357)

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:47 - ID#35571)
SIU8 5.110
Was as low as 5.080, but I guess a few people have started to figure out just exactly what IS in the Ukrain.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:49 - ID#35571)
The source of that story is the highly respected, unimpeachable, and greatly exalted Mr. Armstrong.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:55 - ID#411440)
@ Gollum: thank you. I will now commence to breathe again.
If Armstrong is badmouthing silver, it is time to get bullish on the
metal again. Stocks on COMEX have begun to decline once more.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:56 - ID#26793)
The Russian silver news was attributed to Martin Armstrong of the Princeton Economic Institute as I recall.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 07:59 - ID#252391)
Oil and Ukranian silver
Any body know why oil is up 30 cents today - looks like the depressed oil drillers will get a bounce. Anybody seen any news on this score.??

So the Ukanian silver came out of no where. Here I was thinking we were down to 78 million oz and Europe was running dry and 3000 million oz shows up at the door step.

Interesting how the fundlementals change with a decline in price.

We will now hear that of course the silver doesn't exist, that's its all a shorts manipulation . . . that the silver is not for sale etc. etc.

Last night with the yen at the same level silver was $5.25, today its 15 cents lower. Seems we have a new mythical fundlemental to over come, or really live with. Which? Price will tell.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:03 - ID#252391)
300 million oz not 3000 million
Got a little bearish there for a minute.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:04 - ID#434108)
'caught' in these few words:

...' ' the picture has reversed completely ' '...

excerpted - from recent post of article:

( "The picture has reversed completely,
there's pressure on emerging markets
and speculation of a
devaluation of the rouble,"
said Markus Herrmann, fixed income analyst at Deutsche Morgan
Grenfell in Frankfurt. )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:04 - ID#248180)
Rhody & Gollum - Silver rumour
Armstrong's source was probably the same Athens taxi-cab driver that provided him with the Russia mafia story some weeks back. Makes one wonder. "Piissst, Hey Mister wanna bye 1000 M/T's of Silver cheap, today. Sure we will throw in some red mercury and osmium, that is in the back of the taxi." Good night and cheers Jr

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:07 - ID#242325)
Jims:the Saudis announced production cuts this morning. I view the oil service sector as the most attractive in the market right now. Much better than gold. The problem was that the stocks were very expensive until recently. But now very very cheap.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:09 - ID#252391)
Goldfevr, with your mile long post on HM, what's your point??
HM is one if not the best performing gold stocks on a short term basis, currently. When they get the other half of Prime Resources they will have more silver, too, Prime ( PRU ) would be a pretty good deal but ( about 50% silver revenues ) its tied to HM now and I think the Canadian taxes are killers.

I'd buy HM but every time I have in the past it has gone south - don't want to spoil for everybody else.

Had the same luck with cattle..

I thought the Ukraine was where much wheat was grown. Was it the Ukrain or Ukranistan or something like that, or are they the same.???

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:10 - ID#432148)
goldfevr - 07:34
Rather than use Bart's bandwidth as you did, post just the URL as above, and also those not interested do not have to page thru it. Just a humble suggestion for the sake of economy ;- )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:11 - ID#411440)
@ Donald: Thank you. That's bullish news.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:13 - ID#248180)
Commodities from London AM
Commodities: Brent rises as Saudi Arabia reduces exports to Japan
Date: 13 Aug 1998 11:22:35
Service: AFX

LONDON ( AFX ) - Brent futures rose sharply after Saudi Arabia reportedly said
it was reducing crude oil exports to Japan for the month of September,
increasing speculation of even slower demand from Asia in the last quarter,
dealers said.

OIL ( Prices relative to prevous close on IPE ) :

Brent crude ( usd/barrel ) Sep 11.87 up 0.23
Oct 12.22 up 0.21

Gasoil ( usd/tonne ) Aug 106.50 up 1.75
Sep 111.25 up 1.50

They added that Saudi officials said that they will be reducing exports by
18 pct for September liftings in direct response to a request by Japanese
refineries, as the current economic crisis continues to suppress demand in Asia.
Credit Lyonnais Rouse oil broker Tony Machacek said: "The economic crisis in
Asia is forcing refineries to reduce its imports and the market is preparing for
further cuts as Japan struggles to turn its economy around."
Brent prices were also being supported by speculative buying interest,
prompted by gains made on Access, the computerised trading system for U.S. oil
contracts, together with gains made in Singapore overnight, dealers said.
They added that a correction in oil prices was largely expected following
heavy losses in prices earlier this week which saw the market slump to its
lowest level in 10 years.
OPEC production cuts of 3 mln barrels a day have failed to boost prices amid
increasing global supply and slackening demand.

BASE METALS ( Three-month contract prices relative to previous kerb close )

Price ( usd/tonne ) LME warehouse stocks ( tonnes )
Copper 1,615 dn 5 267,975 up 725
Lead 542 dn 1 113,825 dn 25
Zinc 1,041 up 2 367,700 dn 1,475
Tin 5,630 dn 25 6,440 up 120
Aluminium 1,322 dn 2 461,200 dn 775
Nickel 4,150 up 40 60,636 dn 108

Copper fell on increasing concerns over the implications of the economic
crisis in Russia, as the Russian stock exchange suspended trading after shares
fell by 10 pct, dealers said.
U.S. officials in Washington are seeking ways in which to ease the crisis as
global equities continue to drop sharply, an indication of diminishing investor
confidence, thay added.
GNI base metals analyst Lawrence Eagles said: "The situation in Russia is
adding to the nervousness across the base metals complex, and unless we see some
stability return to the developing nations, the risk of a further crisis must be
seen as higher than that of a recovery."
Asian buying interest evaporated as the yen weakened against the dollar
overnight after a report by the Bank of Japan noted a further deterioration in
economic conditions, dealers said.
They added the rise in copper stocks held in LME warehouses was adding to
the negative sentiment.
Dealers said the labour dispute at PT Freeport Indonesia, the world's
largest copper mine, is likely to resume shortly following a visit by government
ministers to the site, underlining the growing urgency to restart production.

PRECIOUS METALS ( Spot prices relative to previous London close )

Price ( usd/oz )

Gold 282.50 dn 1.00
Platinum 370.50 dn 5.50
Palladium 290.00 up 1.00
Silver 5.15 dn 0.09

Gold fell as the dollar made new highs against the yen overnight after
further falls in Hong Kong equities and fears that Russia will devalue the
rouble, dealers said.
The strength of the dollar against other currencies makes gold, a
dollar-denominated metal, more expensive to foreign investors.
The dollar/yen rate -- a key to measuring market sentiment -- traded at a
new high of 147.18 overnight, but eased back to 146.50 during London's morning
session as talk of intervention re-emerged, dealers said.
James Capel precious metals analyst Doug Upton said: "Without doubt the yen
is the main driver for gold prices at the moment but generally trade is
relatively subdued."
Trading on the Russian stock exchange was suspended this morning with no
decision being reached on when trading will resume. The main RTS index was down
10 pct from yesterday's close at the time of suspension.
Speaking on Russia, Upton said: "In a relative sense, the collapse of the
Russian economy is having little impact on gold prices, but as world equity
markets continue to fall, investor confidence is extremely low and that is
generally negative for commodity prices."
Venezuela has denied rumours of central bank sales but admitted to lending
out gold in the swap and leasing maket to increase its returns, dealers said.
The London Bullion Market Association reported yesterday that July had the
lowest monthly trading volume on record, underlining the lack of producer and
consumer interest during the summer months.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:15 - ID#354133)
Russ Savage: 1-800-593-2584.

However, he is not in this week....

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:15 - ID#252391)
OLD Gold
Thanks and I agree with your assessment on the oils - looks like turn around time there - this lower opening may give us an opportunity to get in on what would otherwise be a very strong opening.

Markets in Europe while down arn't falling any more and seem to be firming up. Bet we come in slightly lower on the S&P and rally slowly back - oils will be up strongly.

To OIL Kitco

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:16 - ID#432148)
jims - HM
You may know a German industrialist, August von Finck, is buying 25% of HM so that is where the buying pressure is coming from. One has to wonder why he is doing this. Why HM? Forbes had him worth 4.5 bil of the top 400. Any ideas as to why HM?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:18 - ID#411440)
@ OLD GOLD: all my charts indicate that the price spike in oil
postdates that of the price spike in gold. I think gold signals the
beginning of the inflationary period, and oil confirms it. I suspect
all stocks will correct further ( as I suspect do you ) Oil is a good
thing to rotate out of gold stocks into. IMHO but based on charts
going back to 1989.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:18 - ID#36965)
Slow Leak and joke of the morn
My lawyer intuition tells me that we are in the tip of a bear market. Today, I would venture given that the Eastern and European market are tanking that the USA markets with follow with a 2% loss ( at least 200 in the DOW ) . Much of market psychology is about like the following story:

Joe had asked Bob to help him out with the deck after work,
so Bob just went straight over to Joe's place. When they got to
the door, Joe went straight to his wife, gave her a hug and told her
how beautiful she was and how much he had missed her at work. When it
was time for supper, he complimented his wife on her cooking, kissed
her and told her how much he loved her.

Once they were working on the deck, Bob told Joe that he was
surprised that he fussed so much over his wife. Joe said that
he'd started this about 6 months ago, it had revived their
marriage, and things couldn't be better.

Bob thought he'd give it a go. When he got home, he gave his
wife a massive hug, kissed her and told her that he loved her.
His wife burst into tears.

Bob was confused and asked why she was crying. She said,
"This is the worst day of my life. First, little Billy fell off his
bike and twisted his ankle. Then, the washing machine broke and
flooded the basement. And now, you come home drunk!"

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:19 - ID#224363)
Thanks for the fun read everyone !!!
Took a quick look through the last 12 hours of postings. Fun and interesting stuff.

Looks like half the central banks in the world ( Poland, Argentina, Chile, Canada, et al ) are spending their good old hard earned $US dollars buying their own worthless currencies ( except Poland of course, who are buying gold ) . Wish I had more $US instead of Canadian Peso's. Gold of course has become more expensive for us Canadians and we just can't afford it.

Another 300 millions oz of Silver in Russia ? Boy I don't really know what the problem is with their markets ? They seem to have tons and tons of gold and silver. Surely somebody out there must want to pay $280 for their gold and $5 for their silver.

Here's a rumour for you...The reason why the russians have so much gold and silver is that they have invented a process to create precious metals from debt. The more debt they have, the more PMs they have to sell.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:22 - ID#224363)
Thanks for the laugh. A great way to start a -200 dow day.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:22 - ID#185448)
Ukulele and others
Ukranistan sounds like a virtual russian republic - 300 M Oz of Ag would fit well then. ( ...And they lived long and prosper since they were discovered by Louis Armstrong in 1998. ) You are right, Ukraine is that with lots of grain, some Chernobyl and a little bit of Kiev as their capital. The other choice would be Usbekistan. Both seem rather unlikely to me to possess that heap of silver.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:27 - ID#288186)
Here's the RETAIL SALES data...


(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:31 - ID#252391)
On Von Flink & HM and OIL
Yeh he started buying HM when he had heard I sold. No seriously, I suspect he's buying HM because its a big enough capitalization target to accomodate his position. Plus it does have a large number of properties and the Prime Reserve piece is a gem. The Australian property has alot of developable potential.

Thanks for the information on oil today - my bullishness is tempored by learning that the Saudi are cutting production because Japan demand is so weak. I guess we knew that. Follow the price, the market will make sense out of it after the fact.

I think equities should go down but I've though that for months, buying seems to emerge wehn given the chance - yeh they may tank the S&P today after a rally from a lower opening, cant' believe we'll see 1120 soon, but the oiol service stocks could have a "tradable bounce." Heck look at MDCO its up 30% from its low.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:32 - ID#411440)
@ Junior: Thank you for your posting re. commodities. The
gradual sell off of gold, with low volumes, and no central bank
input is encouraging. It looks like the slide in gold is directly
attributable to the rise in the USD. We know this will change no
later than Jan. 1999. Let us hope that it is sooner, both for our
sake and the world.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:34 - ID#386245)
If the Ukrain has got 300m oz of silver...
...then I am the Queen of Sheba.

Anyone wanna see my belly dance??

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:37 - ID#255226)
Jims and all -If you are following these metal trades you should be long Dec silver at 5.10 or lower. If the market goes to even move your stop just under the lows 5.05-5.06.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:39 - ID#30116)
The difference between the 'rate of X' and the 'real rate' is that you subtract the inflation rate ( whatever that is? ) As an example if the Fed Funds rate is set at 5.5% and the inflation rate is 2.5 % then the real Fed Funds rate is 5.5% - 2.5% = 3% . All that you have to do is determine the real inflation rate... :- ) )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:40 - ID#386245)
...the Aussie gold index surrogate, showed signs today of exhaustion sell-off. Like, "I ain't goin' no lower,so youse can all get stuffed," or words to that effect ( If gold shares could speak ) . Don't believe anyone that can't spell Ukraine.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:40 - ID#26793)
Duff and Phelps downgrades India

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:42 - ID#289357)
Fred @ Vienna

Usbekistan, Ukranistan, Argentistan. Next I guess Armstrong willl be saying that there is Argentum in Argentina. Duh. No credibility here.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:43 - ID#411440)
@ jims: I believe I read here at Kitco that Von Flink has
forced HM to foreward sell through his 25% ownership. This makes
them a far less desireable company. I hope they never get their
hands on the rest of Prime Resources. Prime is one of the best
pm mines in the world, and last I looked, did not have a huge
exposure to hedging.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:45 - ID#35049)
voronsky-police story
Tried to reference the police story you posted but could make the connection. Mistake? Is there another access? Interests me very much

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:47 - ID#26793)
Russia says the fundamentals are sound.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:48 - ID#411440)
@ Silverbaron: There is argentum in Argentina

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:50 - ID#402148)
RHODY, why no later than Ja. 1999 on YEN slide?
The Euro kicking in?


(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:52 - ID#386245)
1 ) hold down left mouse button and highlight the following URL
2 ) go up to edit and copy
3 ) go to address line, highlight and delete
4 ) go to edit and paste URL to address line
5 ) delete the letters 'en' in golden
6 ) enter to view.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:53 - ID#402148)
RHODY, why no later than Ja. 1999 on YEN slide?
The Euro kicking in?

When does $US start it's adjustment process to Euro, I would think it's a buy on the rumor type situation, that is, dollar weakens until Jan. 1 then goes flatline against Euro.


(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:56 - ID#248180)
Rhody & All - Re Gold & PM price movement Upwards/change
Rhody, agreed before Jan.1999. This "change" is evolving as we speak. I am certain that the "change" will be in place, digit fiat funds transfer to gold backed currencies all before the last quarter of 1999. The BIS and European CB's will not risk doing it after the caos of Y2K probs. They ( BIS & Eur.CB's ) will by then have sufficient support from China & Japan. We live in interesting times, yes. This time good night for sure. JR.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 08:57 - ID#224363)
"Donald ( Russia says the fundamentals are sound. ) ID#26793:"

Hmmmm...That's what the Prime Minister and Finance Minister in Canada also said. Mind you our markets are only down by 20% on the year and the currency is only down by 5% or so.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 09:03 - ID#288186)
I'm puzzled. Where does this Martin Armstrong get his info about
300 million oz.'s of Silver being hoarded. I haven't seen the story or been to his site yet. I just can't believe he would have sources to this
info and nobody else does. Wouldn't this be making FWN news or even Ted
Arnold news?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 09:08 - ID#289357)

Hmmmmmmm.....Argentum in Argentina? Go figure. Always wondered where they got the name.

Do you think there is Columbium in Columbia? I love this place..... ( ;^ ) )

Have a nice day.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 09:10 - ID#252391)
Rhody concur with your take on HM and PRU
I read the same thing that Von FLink was causing HM to forward sell. That must be the buzz in thing to do in the board rooms of gold mining companies. HM has had some forward slaes. 25% may not be too much given their exploration and development of production.

PRU's minority shareholders are getting a bad deal. They are a very pure silver and gold play - about 50/50. Zero debt. I bet the exchange goes off closure to .8 of a HM share per PRU share than the .67

(Thu Aug 13 1998 09:17 - ID#288369)
@What time is it?........It's Howdy Doo..........
you have a LITTLE cash to put into g. or s., or mining stocks? If so, now would be a good time to seriously consider it....don't go overboard! Gold runs $35. from here or hereabouts ( within a few bucks ) ....just gut. disclaimer, as always.

oil firms......earthquakes in ca....crack started yesterday@gilroy.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 09:30 - ID#35571)
SIU8 5.055
Armstrong's Ukraine story?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 09:34 - ID#208393)
A slow motion sinking
The water-tight compartments of the Titanic filled one by one, just as we see financial turmoil surges into Asia, Japan, Russia, Mexico, Argentina, Canada. Citizens in the First Class U.S.A. section are hearing rumours of problems but denial is high. After all, the "fundamentals are strong". The current lifeboat is the U.S. dollar..the safe haven. Yet all know that it is only paper and has no strength. Hang on to your gold!

Cage Rattler
(Thu Aug 13 1998 09:35 - ID#33184)
How are the Baltics such as Latvia afffected by the Russian crisis?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 09:40 - ID#333126)
Nick@C and others (re: Ukraine's silver)
Nick, I think I'll pass on your belly dancing, thank you very much.

With the eye of skepticism, I seriously doubt there's 300 Moz of silver ( I'm not confusing Au and Ag again ) just sitting in their vaults waiting to be discovered. Why, at today's prices ( let's assume $5 ) , that'll be worth at least US$1.5 billion on the spot market....

You'd think that a newly independent state would start to divest itself of such barbarous metals a long time ago...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 09:40 - ID#289357)
Care to repeat your California-shakin' forecast???

I want to be the first in line at the grocery store if the Imperial valley sinks into the Pacific.

Saddle Up!....and ride EAST. Fast.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 09:46 - ID#333126)
woohoo! more bad press on gold! (gee... what timing...)
Nazi gold

and, more importantly,

"Gold on 'brink of abyss'"

how much longer will the bad press go on?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 09:50 - ID#35571)
DOW +23
Durn thing is like the Everready bunny.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 09:53 - ID#286230)
No shortage of suspects

The U.S. hardly lacks enemies abroad, thus suspects in the bombing abound. At present the U.S. openly admits to seeking to overthrow the governments of four nations: Libya, Iraq, Sudan and Iran - the last democratically elected. The U.S. has repeatedly tried to assassinate the leaders of Libya and Iraq for impudently challenging American-British
hegemony in the Mideast.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:00 - ID#254269)
"It's Nobler to Quit, Mr. President " is the tile of an op-ed piece in
today's WSJ. Written by Paul Campos, a Law Professor at University of Colorado. Advocates quitting as "best course of action for the country"

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:01 - ID#426220)
Droke & Gold

One of the few analysts who has correctly called the BEAR MARKET in STOCKS is Clif Droke. He is basically a technical analyst who relies heavily upon the interpretation of the Elliott Wave and Ganns theories.

Well, he has turned his considerable technical analysis talents to the
GOLD MARKET. His observations have interesting implications for the
short and long-term.

Droke's GOLD observations are shown at the following URL - it's necessary
to delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before posting it to the Internet:

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:04 - ID#254269)
"The Smash-Mouth Presidency " is the title of WSJ editorial today.
It is about efforts of Clinton Presidency to silence its critics.
Very interesting reading.

Cage Rattler
(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:04 - ID#33184)
Moody's cuts Russia's country ceiling for bank deposits to CAA1 from b2. It downgrades its foreign currency debt to b2 from b1.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:19 - ID#284255)
Koenig's Watch

Check out articles under News Alerts - top left hand corner
19 Present and Future Events to Watch ( Revised )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:23 - ID#434108)
"final demand remained weak" (-Bank of Japan)
"Japan's economic conditions continue to deteriorate,"
the BOJ report said, adding that job and
income conditions had worsened further and
"final demand remained weak."

In numerous previous posts, I've discussed "velocity" of money,
such as - is measured by the esteemed Bank Credit Analyst,
in their historical chart/data:
"Turn-over of Demand-Deposits, NY Banks".

No matter how many billions of new dollars & dollar credits,
emitting from the Federal Reserve bank of the U.S.,
and/or from the central banks of the rest of the world...

no matter how much of this corrupted, artificial
money & credit - defined in terms of -
whatever new or old currency:
dollar, yen or euro...

no matter what-ever fake & compromised
'sandwiched' specie of coin,
or inked paper ...
of false money is still created...

it is all but - legalized counterfit
contrary to natural law..
and a travesty upon humanity's innate dignity & freedom.

Across this floundering, drowning
global, economic world
the momentary political & monetary powers that be,
cannot, ultimately:
force, manipulate, control or create .... "demand" .

Demand arises out of desire.....
-- human desire, want, need, & choice.

Its origin, meaning, and reality,
rests in the innate liberty & freedom -
of what it is -
to be a human-being.


..."final demand will remain weak"...

and grow even weaker...
until world-leadership...
recognizes, acknowledges, and accepts the fact that:

freedom-loving people the world over,
will eagerly return to the market-place:

of supply & demand
of produce and consume
of create and satisfy

once their money & credit --

-- the unit of exchange & store of value,
of their industry, endeavor and dreams --

can be trusted, accepted, universally used,
or squirreled away - for a rainy day....

Once this is so --
( -and it will be so,
and only with gold-based money & credit ) ....

once this is so,
then -
confidence will return;
and fear will be replaced
by faith,
and by humanity's innate eagerness
to create, produce, and flourish.

Upon such a foundation,
of sound money and credit,
defined in gold weight & measure...
will our world,
willingly demand and supply -

the fulfillment of humanity,
in the new millenium.

Sincerely yours,
David Blair Macrory

The velocity of money will pick-up,
and build momentum;
and 'demand' will no longer be 'final' nor 'weak'.

And free people, the world over, will be free;
because they live & thrive in a global economy,
that is rooted in, and based on
sound, gold money.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:25 - ID#224363)
The market today reminds me of
The children's story called 'The Little Train'

The little train was faced with a very high mountain and it really wanted to reach the top. It started the climb up - "I think I can...I think I can...I think I can", it said over and over again, struggling to keep moving upwards. Finally, just as it reached the top "Sh!t it said...I guess I can't", it said rolling back down the mountain faster and faster.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:28 - ID#348286)
@More Gold Media BS
Gold on 'brink of abyss'

London price set at seven-month low as traders eye yen for next move

August 13, 1998: 8:16 a.m. ET

LONDON ( Reuters ) - The price of gold hit a seven-month low Thursday after the bullion market ignored positive news on Polish central bank purchases to focus instead on yen weakness and its likely impact on Asian demand, dealers said.
The price of London gold was set at $282.70 a troy ounce, down from Wednesday afternoon's $285.05. The price was the lowest it has been since it was set at $282.50 Jan. 15 and is nearing the 18-1/2-year low of $278.50, which it hit Jan. 13.
One London dealer said dollar strength overnight in Tokyo had taken the yen toward the highs seen earlier this week, adding to pressure on gold.
"All this has served to keep gold and silver under pressure, and we really do seem to be on the brink of the abyss as far as gold is concerned," he said.
"We may see some short-covering rallies today, maybe enough to keep us range-bound between $282.00 and $284.50, but it really still has to be sell rallies on all the metals," he added.

How the yen affects the price of gold

Yen weakness has been used for months now as a signal to sell spot gold, the argument being that falls in Japan's currency hits other regional units, dampening local gold demand by making the metal more expensive.
Another London dealer questioned how much further gold might fall Thursday, given a mild recovery in the yen during early European business.
"It's still just a one-issue market, although the yen seems to be strengthening a little this morning. Hopefully we'll get a bit of a bounce up in gold," she said.
"There's still this threat of the yen heading to 150 and talk that we'll get a Chinese devaluation, which would be negative for gold. I personally don't believe it," she added.
The dealer put nearby support at $280.00 and then $276.50, the 18-1/2-year spot low of Jan. 13.
"I don't think support here's that strong. If someone really wants to push it there will be trouble. There will be a lot of stop-loss selling down there," she said.
The yen was last at 145.30 against the dollar, moving nervously amid continued fears of intervention.
The bullion market chose to ignore positive elements in overnight news from International Monetary Fund data, which showed Brazil and Venezuela had lent out or sold some of their gold reserves while Poland had bought 74.5 tons.
"It's a funny market just now. We have known about Venezuela swapping gold for months now and the same with the Brazilians. But we have completely ignored the positive news from Poland," said one of the dealers.
Spot gold was last up a little, trading at $283.00 versus New York's Wednesday close of $282.80.
Silver remained weak, trading at $5.12, three cents below New York's close.
Platinum also was lower at $370.00, down $1.40, while palladium was $8.00 lower at $280.00.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:30 - ID#348286)
@RUSSIAN Market halted
Major meltdown - "Black Thursday"
Soros is the largest western investor, with 2.5 B$ in Russia......

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:30 - ID#288369)
@the silverbaron........yipes....bad.dreams.......
Date: Sun Jul 26 1998 07:15
STUDIO.R ( @surfing the faulted plane..................... ) ID#288369:
I, studio, hereby predict a massive and destructive earthquake in southern to central California running from Brawley, through Riverside on up to Gilroy. This tragedy will occur between Aug.15 and Sept. 23.
There is nothing that can be done, other than to worry and wait.
I can make no other comment on this. nostrastudio.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:41 - ID#288369)
@the Imperial Valley Island Resort........we only accept gold and silva'
Date: Sun Jul 26 1998 09:48
STUDIO.R ( @the new Island that is Longest ( the Isle of California ) ............ ) ID#288369:
will be separated from the rest of the state by the Bay of California ( so named by Gov. Jerry Brown and two of his ol' drinking buddies ) . No gold mining will be allowed on this newly created resort-oriented island. Property now elevated above the soon-to-sink onion fields will be almost priceless after the great crack. In the 22nd century, war will break out between California and the Isle O' California. This will be a tax revolt. The revolutionary leader will have the name of Jimenez.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:47 - ID#371247)
The Markets and Clinton
It looks like the trap door is creaking; paper is falling right out of bed. With paper it has to be a soft landing, right?

Just one question for you folks today. If Bill and Hillary were to get divorced would they still be brother and sister? Enough Arkansas bashing for now.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:52 - ID#57232)
Brazil, Venezuela Selling, Swapping gold
MoreGold: Any comments? Are we on the brink for a downturn in the price of gold, or are we to find that Brazil and Venezuela defaulted on their gold trades? Guess it depends on the banking spinmeisters. Either way we know that AG will step in if he thinks gold is rising too fast. And now we hear that the Swiss are returning gold -- over a billion worth to the holocaust victims. How did this get past the plebescite vote?
I certainly don't know what to think -- are we nearing a bottom? Perhaps that is the reason why the news if getting really bad. Sign of the CB's losing control?
The other possibility is that we are on the brink of another major financial meltdown -- South America this time? This could mean that gold might go down more -- more gold fire sales. If it is the latter, it will not be pleasant for anyone.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:53 - ID#287340)
Great post ( 10:23 ) . The idea that we are in a deflation and the right thing to do is turn all assets into U.S. paper is amazing to me. The statist war on precious metals has gone on so long that no one even knows the word specie any more.

Our country is going to pay an huge price for the thieving politicians. Our currency is terminally ill but greenspan keeps shooting us full of morphine.

When the Dow breaks 8000 the you will be able to smell the smoke. Boy Clinton will preside over a huge bonfire. All that lovely green paper will disintigrate along with his poll numbers.

Got Gold!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 10:59 - ID#434108)
ANGLY is collapsing
Anyone know any explanation - why..?....
Other than an impending deflationary collapse,
in gold prices?

in an imploding world economy...


(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:02 - ID#147201)
SteveIS re your posts
Your posts appear very appropriate. If you like, please email me at Thanx, Charlie

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:03 - ID#348286)
@JTF _ Gold Direction
In general near term it will probably head lower, but I doubt anything under 270.
If the manipulators of Gold want a worldwide deflation crissis, they will sell Gold much lower, but I doubt that.
No one knows when the turn will be, but when it occurs everyone will instantly realize it by the astonomic price rise that will occur.
There will be lineups at Gold stores around the world, much more than in 1980, yes?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:07 - ID#57232)
CB gold defaults?
All: Just a thought. All the CB's are connected through a network of some kind -- so gold losses of any one CB can be covered by the others. But --- this problem is probably increasing. The implications are obvious -- either these losses must be sanitized as 'sales', presumably with 'approval' of some kind, or pooled gold reserves drop. As long as the gold producers are active, or there is an abundant supply of gold, the CB's can cover the ones that got over their heads. But -- there will come a time when these excess reserves dry up -- and CB bailouts can no longer occur. Could be interesting when it happens. Just like COMEX gold bullion reserves drying up one day.
Even with the added leverage of gold derivatives, a time will come when the gold is not available for loans/sales to keep the price down. But -- this time will come only after all the currency crisis gold fire sales are over.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:09 - ID#335184)
Stud, the fix is in from the water pressure delivered by El Nino, but the big ONE is more
likly to kick in & report on the opposite side of the RIM in or near Tokyo ! If so, I, Neutronic Bomb, hereby predict that it will be the catalyst for those lovable "face saving" Jap politicians to do the right thing on their banking fix ! Sort of like the A-Bomb galvinized the Emporor to go on the radio for the first time & tell the people, "The war has not gone exactly to the benefit of the Japanese people as planned !" Or As Dr. Lee Say @ O. J. Trial : "Someting Wrong here ! "



(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:10 - ID#429270)
Gold price
I don't like to mention it, but there's always the chance this Swiss
Gold deal might clear the air for a few days, no?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:21 - ID#280214)
Blooper - I was NOT attacking you. It's just that we we're all pissed!
When I said "pessimistic doomsdayer" it was a compliment from one who is likely more pessimistic than you. Look back on some of the scenarios I have written here that gave poor old Mooney nightmares - and I was trying to keep them from being really dark and grave. I have a gloomy side that makes this side look like rays of morning sunshine.
Only Mozel and Grizz may be more pessimistic than I.

Speaking of Mozel -
Vote I will - whenever it can nibble at a crack or two in the system. It costs me nothing and costs them a lot of anguish and handwringing. In the meantime I am preparing for the worst - as can be seen in my previous posts. Call it a form of guerilla warfare - this voting thing undermining their ability to extort more from us. It may not be much but it is effective - little hit & run attacks to take out limit their offensive capabilities. It is working in this town - unlike places you are more familiar with. We've got them babbling in their soup and tripping all over themselves. Call it diversionary tactics too if you will. It sure is a helluva lot easier than going to war - though that too may come to pass {and for that we are preparing}. But at least we will have softened up the targets and prepared the masses just a little bit more to support our efforts.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:21 - ID#288369)
@EB.........out der' in California...........
Just how high are you out there? yes, we must move to higher ground someday....all too soon. surfin' Io'Ca....jan& we come....

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:22 - ID#434108)
Steve @ 10:53
Thanks for the response, but I'm not so sure
it is going to be 'easy'.

My latest 'take', on the situation, is very dismal,
even for gold/silver, in US dollar terms.

( -Note: this may be your most reliable indicator -
that gold is about to sky-rocket up;
esp. since I am turning so bearish ...
on the precious metals, etc. )

I vaguely recall some old charts, from 1928 - 1933,
where gold mining shares dropped sharply, before the rose, dramatically.
( -Gold itself was gov't controlled/totally. )
As I understand/recall it:
gold mining shares/stocks advanced, but only when FDR,
or who-ever,
revalued U.S. gold, in U.S. dollar terms at,
something like $33.00/ounce,
from a previously much lower 'dollar-defined' value --
which escapes me, for the moment.

My point is:
if we are once again, as in in 1928- 1933
collapsing into a deflationary spiral,
and economic depression,
all over the world...

then perhaps, gold too,
will be dragged down,
to lower dollar prices --
below what - most of us have,
as yet, considered possible.

We all, here at kitco, embrace the value, importance, and 'righteousness' of gold, and gold - money.
But at what price...
what price ?!
...I ask...
this 'glory' . ?!

Gold at $280,
$200.00 ... ?


(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:26 - ID#26793)
Are you Kitco types withdrawing more than your share?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:29 - ID#26793)
Looks like the Fed is worried about something. (scroll down by date

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:31 - ID#316193)
Will The Fed Lower Interest Rates? The Wilson Report Says Yes and Why.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:33 - ID#280214)
Sharefin - in the pessimistic doomsdayer crowd
Of which I have been a member and dark voice for four decades.
I did not forget you when I mentioned who may be gloomier than I.
You and I may be tied - we each are sometimes gloomier than the other.
But you back up your doomsday news with lots of info gathered from all over the globe. Thank you for your efforts.

This reminds me of going in the hole in some card games. Eventually my partner & I fall so far behind that we then talk about going out backwards - in an effort to get even further in the hole.
But this Klinton/China/Y2K/GDII/WWIII/Apocalypse thing is not a game.
It is coming to main street and back road everywhere next decade.
The backroads will be safer than main streets - but not by much.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:34 - ID#434108)
Donald @ 11:26
Fed's overnite repos totals..
any historical charts, data; &/or urls, on this ?

Your interpretation of it's significance?

Are the powers that be,
becoming ever more desperate,
as they discover that -
when they ..."push on a string" ....
that it no longer works?

Sincerely yours, and thank-you,
David Blair Macrory
San Diego

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:41 - ID#26793)
@Goldfevr: The Fed is pumping money into the banking system. Here is a site.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:48 - ID#288369)
@Donald.......non-rumlike liquidity.....
Honest injun'!.....headed to my bank to withdraw some mo' cash 5k....just in case. bbl.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:52 - ID#284255)
Concerned yet??? - executive orders
Gary North's Alert #27

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:53 - ID#284255)
Concerned yet??? - executive orders
Gary North's Alert #27

(Thu Aug 13 1998 11:55 - ID#34191)
Long term
I enjoy your insights everyday, but I prefer to think of my recent gold investments as long term. So what if I'm down $5 or $10 now it's y2k protection and we're in before the panic. I expect that to be a year off and refuse to be worried about POG until it's all over. Besides all my eggs aren't in this basket either. If we hit $200 I'll be real tempted to buy some more!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:02 - ID#335184)
It seems that Starr's dna tests have resolved the mystery of Chelsie's mud fence ugly satus ! It
turns out that Chelsie has two mommies ! ...Abbie Jo Cohen & Janet Reno ! Shaboom !...Bump, Bump !

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:03 - ID#200305)
@DONALD or anyone that knows
what does it mean the FEDS are adding reserves? and what significance does this have on the value of the $. in contrast to the value of AU who ever let central banks lease AU? doesn't that create ovesupply in the market? and finally who sets the price of AU in NY?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:14 - ID#394240)
If she can't hold 8400 today, it's turn-out-the-lights-time as next week's testimony from BC will ROCK the WORLD FINANCIAL SYSTEM TO ITS KNEES! Wonder what's goin' through his mind as he watches the bodybags of innocent US citizens parading past him and Hillary on the way to the cemetery? Knowing that the perpetraitors would have done the same thing to him if they could have! Methinks BC will be lucky to spend the rest of his life behind bars! The global competitive currency devaluation is gaining steam day by day and will eventually lead to the collapse of the world trading mechanism as we know it and the total consolidation of power in the hands of the monied elite. Those running to the bond market for safety are jumpin' from the frying pan into the fire! Last currency standin' will be, as always, GOLD! But don't take it to the bank! GOLD WILL HOLD $280!! Too many dollars would be cashed in if it didn't! Worthless paper debt instruments for COLD HARD CASH!! Can't let THAT happen now, can we?

Charleston Gold Bug
(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:23 - ID#344389)
$289.20 up 2.30

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:23 - ID#284255)
After reading my last post I might have to agree with you.

No - not me - never.

Europe pulled out of its earlier heavy losses.
And the charts look like its time for a rally.
Reload to refresh.

Will next week be a bullish week for equities???

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:24 - ID#174239)
Can the Swiss Banks manipulate gold prices?
I just heard that the Swiss banks may have to pay $1.25Billion to holocost survivers for the gold they bought from Nazis who looted it from the jews, catholics, gays, etc. I have also heard rumors that the Swiss CB intends to reduce thier gold holdings. There are also stories around that say the 'Gnomes of Zurich' have a lot of influence in the price of gold. Assuming all three are true, could the swiss temporarily manipulate the price of gold higher, give the holocaust victims the $1.25 billion in the form of gold, then allow prices to return to normal?

I personally doubt this scenario will happen outside of a lame movie plot, but it's fun to ponder.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:34 - ID#207145)
My market take
It's all going to hell. Have a niz day.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:37 - ID#147201)
How about emailing me. Thanx, Charlie

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:37 - ID#207145)
A little inflation in the core tomorrow?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:38 - ID#287340)
@Goldfevr re 1930 vs 1998
I believe that 1929-33 is a very poor model for what to expect in 1998-y2k. The government was microscopic compared to now. Our currency was still backed by gold. The debt outstanding was a much smaller % of GDP. Foreign trade was only barely 10% of our economy in the late 1920's. Most importantly the world wasn't holding billions ( trillions? )
of green pieces of paper with pictures of dead presidents.

Currencies compete for capital. As Grant pointed out when one currency implodes some of the money leaving that currency should go to the PMs. With so many world currencies disintigrating by all rights we should be experiencing a bull market in PMs.

The reason we aren't is because of CB leasing. However CB leasing is creating an ever growing mountain of gold shorts. The gold market is like a forest during a drought. All we need is a match.

A US bear market in stocks is the lit fuse. At first there may be a temporary run to TBonds. This won't last because a bear market in stocks will cause a bear market in the dollar. Just check out the Yen 89.

I believe the time is close. However if the CB keep pulling rabbits out of thier hats maybe they can keep the tide from turning for a while.

The right approach is to accumulate PM on a regular basis. The lower they push the price the more you can buy. I can smell the smoke.

Got gold!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:40 - ID#200305)
I haven't read anywhere about the payment being in gold, most likely will be in Dollars
probably why the price has been so depressed. Swiss negotiate terms on gold price $288.00 per oz. then pay in dollars after ward pump up gold prices to increase cash dollar positions.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:42 - ID#358318)
When will Y2K crisis start to bite?
When will the vast majority of people who take little interest in the Year
2000 software bug problem start to realise that it has the potential
for mass disruption to power supplies, banking, distribution, law & order,
transport, in fact every aspect of human life...
Although Year 2000 remedial efforts and testing are in some cases
encouraging, and the optimistic outcome is for business as usual
with isolated equipment failures and workarounds causing generally
minor impact, the pessimistic outcome is quite extreme, so many
people may decide to hope for the best and plan for the worst; this
could result in bank runs, shortages of survival-class goods and
economic effects such as stock market declines and depression
before the actual event itself.
I would suggest that the time frame for people to start taking mass
personal action to stock up on supplies, etc, would likely be very
similar to preparing for Christmas. Shops start making Christmas-related
displays as early as August, but some savings clubs start preparations
in January. Shortages of survival-class provisions have already been
reported. Another key event is the end of the summer holiday season
around September, when people start to focus on the months ahead.
Therefore, I expect supply shortages and economic effects
to intensify beginning early 1999 and an acceleration of Year-2000
related effects from August-September 1999. Those wanting to
make appropriate contingency plans should therefore consider
completing their arrangements by the end of 1998 at the latest.

IMHO of course. For academic discussion and debate only. No-one
should act on these suggestions without doing their own research and
obtaining independent advice.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:50 - ID#426220)
Trinovant: "When will Y2K crisis start to bite?"

Y2K WHAT IF SCENARIO by A Retired Policeman

Someone needs to alert the general public. Someone needs to drive the message home that if and when it comes down to the real nut cutting, each man will understandably run to protect his own family. Subsequently, I feel someone should do an essay about possible scenarios if the Y2K bug is more severe than some think it to be. Where it also affects the Police Force.

Who but a retired law enforcement officer could tell a more credible story of what might happen?! Following is a candid, down to earth view of what a retired Law Enforcement Officer foresees as a possible worse case scenario. It is a very credible story.

It's necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before posting it to the web:

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:55 - ID#26350)
Predictions for next week
The 20th, 21st are hitorically averaged the best time per month to buy anything ( between payperiods I guess, less buyers ) . Whereas the last day and first day of the month, as well as the 15th of the month, there are the most bids, so prices and averages have a tendency to pop up.

Also for any "astro" buffs, for what credence anyone wants to give it, the 21st in the fall eclipse of the sun ( followed by another partial lunar eclipse on September 6th as well ) . Eclipse time of year ( Spring and Fall over the last years ) is popularly considered by astrologers to be a volatile and a bit at risk due to the pull of the sun and moon and also the "combust" factor of two influential orbs being so closely aligned in the sky.

Rick Rule of Global Resources has been recommending take your 1998 losses in resource stocks currently ( this month ) in prep for the fall buying period which seems to come earlier every year.

Also, check out the price of Newmont Mining ( NEM.NY ) again hitting a new low today. Its the second largest gold mining company in the world isn't it? I haven't talked to anyone at the company yet, but I know they are increasing leverage over the last quarter by quite a bit. Also Jens I think it is Hansen of Trillion resources just bit a big hunk of his company's own shares ( TLQ ) , which tempts me.

My personal intuition, for what it remains to be seen is worth, is that late October of this year, I don't have the dates and times yet, and then again on the last few days of December will be great dates to keep in mind, much like Jan. 8th was this year. But still undecided. Historically resource stocks and commodities are lowest in August anrent they? I can't remember where I heard that, but in eras past I guess there was less mining in the winter months, so prices may have been driven up by the weather conditions. Regards.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:57 - ID#335184)
Say, can any body tell me the difference between a Beardstown/Camptown Lady,
a Bre-X geologist and an imagineering member of the club that does the finanial statements for Disney ? I'm just real confused !


(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:57 - ID#207145)
XOI....Oil the big gainer
Consolidation? Yes. Cheap? Yes. Defensive? Yes. Sustainable? maybe not, but maybe.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:58 - ID#289357)
africanminer @ adding reserves

Here's some Fed propaganda on the subject. Repos are the same thing as repurchase agreements.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 12:59 - ID#320202)
Y2K used to be the comet, ( remember, last turn of the century? ) , now we have a new hysteria Y2k,

The Y2K problems are real, and they are potentially dangerous in some
cases - BUT - like all other crises in life, the problems will be solved
and the risks to any one person are FAR less than, say, driving to work.
For example, more than 50,000 people die in the US each year as a result of
car crashes. I assure you that far, far less than 50,000 people will be
mortally injured by Y2K problems. So, it is simply a matter of perspective
and the doomsday people are simply WRONG. Driving causes more problems
than Y2K will worldwide.

..........let,s just hope I am right ! ( not so sure about it myself ! )


(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:06 - ID#207145)
Massive Prozac infusions needed
But even then ,don't buy stocks. But lighten up just a little, before you blow a fuse.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:06 - ID#392358)
Hello Leland and Avalon, Squirrel...
Leland, Wilson may be right about Interest rates but his other info looks alot like
typical Wall street nonsense.....
Avalon, Mr. Klinton seems to me to have a phsyco-disorder that causes him to feel that if he goes down , all should be pulled down with him. A sick puppy indeed.
Hello Squirel: interesting conversation about being pessamistic....I think you are rather an optamist in thinking that you want to and will survive!!!! The problem of stemming off the kind of chaos that you describe is that the number of solid contingencies against possible problems is to high to afford or manage.
Though I prepare, I cannot know exactly what i'll need when the stuff hits the fan.
In order vs disorder disorder tends to win in the short term just by its sheer numbers of disorderly factors compressed into a short time frame. I can only create so much order. My God must create the rest, for I see him as in control for his purposes, of both the orderly and the disorderly. All disorder is some how still on a foundation of order. IE Chaos therory shows that while the evident may appear to be dissorder the sometimes less visible is still there. Order tends to win in the long term. Like buisiness cycles, they will rule in the end but as long as we try to prevent them from harming us, the law of natural buisiness will just have a more harmful effect. People don't break natural laws, people are just broken by them.
These hidden laws march on like a deep reality that we don't take into consideration. Like gravity. I write this to encourage you, order gets restored, sometimes in a new form. May we both be part of making the dawn after the night.
Your friend
PS. make sure that you survive the night! I know you will!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:08 - ID#207145)
Is coming to take us away. Ho,Ho,He,He.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:10 - ID#213265)
@the scene
lady bug -- I don't have to 'hope' you're right. You do...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:11 - ID#289357)
lady_bug (Y2K)
..........let,s just hope I am right ! ( not so sure about it myself ! )

I'm not so sure either.....just hope that nobody I know happens to be connected to any sort of medical equipment whatsoever, containing an embedded processor when Y2K comes around. Or on a plane. Or driving thru a traffic light.

And so forth, ad nauseum.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:13 - ID#31876)
A Perspective on the Stock Market That I Haven't Seen Presented - The "Wealth Effect"

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:13 - ID#93241)
I was thinking about our conversation the other night re: the Fall of Communism. Did it really fall? I read Yelstin is appointed old communists to his cabinet again as Russia reestablishes itself in some of the old Soviet republics. The Red Chinese are using American missle technology to build a new generation of ICBM's. And the North Korean communists are selling missles all over the Middle East as well as prepping for war with the South Koreans. The Fall of Communism: Fact or Fiction...let me know.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:17 - ID#281175)
Soros: Russia's banking system "wiped out"
MOSCOW, Aug 13 ( AFP ) - Russia's central bank on Thursday
dismissed suggestions from billionaire financier George Soros that
the ruble should be devalued rapidly, arguing this would further
destabilise panic-stricken markets.
In a letter to the Financial Times, Soros called on the
government and central bank to peg the ruble to the euro or the
dollar at 15-25 percent below current rates to reflect a fall in
global oil prices.
Oil is Russia's largest hard currency earner and the collapse in
prices has been a prime factor in the country's economic crash,
which has touched new depths this week.
"The meltdown in Russian financial markets has reached the
terminal phase," Soros wrote. "The banking system is, to all intents
and purposes, pretty well wiped out."

Personal comment: so what is left? hard assets, oil, gold, toilet-paper..

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:18 - ID#335184)
Answer to rhetorical riddle @ 12:57 !
They both are lying when their lips move & they bounce like a dead feline ! TALLY HO !



(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:18 - ID#358318)
@vronsky - If you want to know the time, ask a policeman
It is good to hear the viewpoint of a "Retired Law Enforcement Officer"-
the experience of one with first hand knowledge. Too
often the audience is addressed by "spokespersons" who seek only
to deliver soothing platitudes, avoid rocking the boat, and protect
vested interests, but do they have "hands on" experience of what
they talk about? This puts a firm foundation on some of the things
that the Y2K pundits have been saying. To be sure, a little insurance in
the form of naturally Y2K-bug resistant precious, quietly tucked away,
is to be wise before the event.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:20 - ID#289357)
Not to forget Vodka, bullets, nukes, US greenbacks, and last ( but not least ) , the notorious Disney/Oris/Junior Russian blondes.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:20 - ID#200305)
If I am to understand this correctly if there is a need for liqiudity the feds sell T-bills and repurshase in an opposite move? Basically making money out of thin air.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:21 - ID#207145)
Evil will not be destroyed by human hands. Reagan dealt it a grand body slam. Hurt democrat feelings a great deal.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:22 - ID#289357)

Of course: It is all money for/from nothing.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:23 - ID#281175)
Huge profiteering in Korea by US banks...goodwill won?
Foreign banks in Seoul reports 202 pct increase in profits

SEOUL, Aug 11 ( AFP ) - Foreign banks operating in South Korea
have enjoyed a boom this year amid the country's economic crisis,
reaping net profits three times as large as last year's, officials
said Tuesday.
The 38 foreign banks earned a total of 513.3 billion won ( 384
million dollars ) net profits in the first six month to June, up 202
percent from a year before, the Bank Supervision Office ( BSO )
officials said.
The BSO attributed the increase in profits to expanded
deposit-loan margins and increased interest incomes from their
assets, whose won value was inflated because of the appreciation of
dollars they had brought in.
Topping the list was Citibank, which posted a 110.4 billion won
( 80 milion dollars ) net profit in the January-June period.
It was followed by Hongkong Shanghai Banking Corp. with 52.9
billion won and Chase Manhattan Bank with 42.5 billion won, Standard
Chartered Bank with 35.2 billion won and Bank of America with 31.3
billion won.
Citibank posted a 166 million won ( 120,000 dollars ) net profit
per employee in the six-month period.
Citibank officials said a large portion of the bank's profit
came from windfall gains in currency hedging.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:26 - ID#281175)
Santa Claus 2000 early in Japan?
Asahi Bank Back To Basics As ATM Network Fails 08/04/98

TOKYO, JAPAN, 1998 AUG 5 ( NB ) -- By Martyn Williams, Newsbytes. The
computer network linking automated teller machines at branches of
Japan's national Asahi Bank failed Tuesday morning, causing the bank
to fall back on conducting transactions by hand.

The network collapsed at 10a.m. and remained down throughout the day,
until coming back to life at 3:37p.m. forcing all 3,500 ATMs out of
service. Long queues were reported in all branches, especially over
lunch-time, as customers had to wait for transactions to be conducted
by tellers.

A computer failure at the bank's computer center in Tochigi prefecture
is believed to be the cause of the breakdown.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:26 - ID#207145)
George Soros
Maybe he can have pot legalizedin Russia. For medicinal purposes of course. The country will still be broke, but won't care. Maybe the huge sum he lost can be made all better if he would light up, but not inhale of course, for medicinal purposes.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:30 - ID#207145)
Bet George is licking his chops over the US$ late in 99.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:32 - ID#289357)
africanminer @ Federal Reserve

If you really want to be enlightened about the US Federal Reserve, get a copy of the following book:

"The Creature from Jekyll Island"

A Second Look at the Federal Reserve
by G. Edward Griffin

ISBN 0-912986-18-2

American Opinion Publishing, Inc.
P.O. Box 8040
Appleton, Wisconsin 54913-8040

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:33 - ID#320202)
well, let's go through your points ,

I'm not so sure either.....just hope that nobody I know happens to be connected to any sort of medical equipment
whatsoever, containing an embedded processor when Y2K comes around. Or on a plane. Or driving thru a traffic

I am sure the hospital will make sure , around midnight, that no one is connected, planes wont fall out of the sky, just make sure none is in the sky at that time, things can be arrangend in a serious situation, and traffic lights, can be replaced with stop signs on each corner, etc,etc,
we will have to be more careful, for sure, till everything is corrected, yes, there will be shortages, so what, you might have to eat more beans than beef, will do everyone good, to get back to basics , walk up those stairs, yes, walk more , and realise how much we are depending on modern conveniences, most of them against human nature anyway ,..........etc.etc
I don,t want to get into the other extreme,
cool heads should prevail, panic is good for nothing, and fanatics do more harm than good, ( I knew I will get in a hot seat, with my comment )


(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:34 - ID#280214)
ChasAbar - re: your 04:00. How did I do that?
Your life I mean.
Integrity - yes a noble concept.
Though when it comes to dog-eat-dog survival some priorities may change.
We must take care of those closest and dearest to us first -
those who can support us and we support them - as a community.
The local bank comes ahead of Citicorp.

John Disney__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:43 - ID#24135)
Swiss Silver
To All ..
You may recall that I suggested silver may fall rather
quickly to 7.5 swiss having broken natural support at
8 SF .. That said 5 bucks and I think we will get there
or lower. Au/ag ratio is now 55.9. I suggest this
provides some justification for tracking silver in
Swiss rather than in stirling ( which doesnt work ) as
discussed briefly in an exchange with another poster.

Another Subject.
Amplats earnings out today .. smashing .. 5.23 R/sh
versus 2.83 last year. Dividend increased to 3.05 rd
per share.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:44 - ID#281175)
blooper: soros licking his chops
probably going to use US$100 notes to roll up his doobies!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:46 - ID#281175)
PM's options quotes link?
anybody got a good one?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:47 - ID#289357)

I'm not a doom & gloomer about this - mostly I think that the possibilities of public panic and hoarding wilI be the worst of it.....but I do fear that the liabilities from the presence of embedded processors are understated.

You see, these puppies have their own internal clocks, and for the most part are not aligned to the real time period but to some later time, due to the manufacturing or operational cycle of the part.

If the embedded processor is one of the few percent which will fail, it will fail UNPREDICTABLY SOME TIME AFTER 1/1/2000. It is just not practical to discontinue use of these devices for a short period of time around the turn of the century. And therein is the problem, with things like medical devices, traffic lights, etc.. They may get you just when you think the problem is over. And they are everywhere.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:48 - ID#368244)
@ Ladybug

I agree with you completely, but that of which you speak, is not the nature of the human beast.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:48 - ID#426220)

REF: lady_bug ( Y2K ) Your comment regarding the Millennium Menace

With all due respect I wish you might consider the following from a reliable source: Merrill Lynch.

Merrill Lynch REPORT: The Year 2000 Computer Problem In Perspective

E V E N T....................ESTIMATED COST

World War II...............$4,200.000,000,000

Millennium Challenge.........$600,000,000,000*

Vietnam Conflict.............$500,000,000,000

Kobe Earthquake..............$100,000,000,000

Los Angeles Earthquake........$60,000,000,000

( * ) $600 billion translates to a per capita cost $2,220 per every man, woman and child in the US.
Sources: Gartner Group and Congressional Research Service

Don't be recklessly foolhardy--- TAKE PRECAUTION

Just Citibank alone has already set aside $600 MILLION to try to become
Y2K compliant before December 31, 1999. Would you say they are NOT worrying about the potential danger?!


Merrill Lynch forced to add $100 million to Y2K costs

US finance house Merrill Lynch admitted yesterday that
dealing with the millennium bug would cost it $100 million
more than it had originally expected.

The company said it expected to spend $375 million in all
on its Year 2000 project, up from a $275 million estimate
made as recently as March this year.

The Securities Industry Association, which just completed
initial millennium testing of systems connecting Wall
Street traders, estimates that its members will spend $5
billion on achieving Y2K compliance ( see separate story ) .

There is additional irony in Merrill's statement as the
company recently released a report that downplayed the
likely impact of the Year 2000 problem, saying there would
be little economic damage and most companies would get
through problems as they would in a power cut.

If you are still calm and collective in the face of this looming problem, while everyone around you is frantically running around in circles and wringing their hands, perhaps you may not fully understand the situation. That being the case, you might do well to peruse our Y2K Index of reports at the following URL. BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY!

It will be necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before posting the URL to the Internet.

Charleston Gold Bug
(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:51 - ID#344389)
UP 2.40 @ 289.20

(Thu Aug 13 1998 13:54 - ID#320202)

Yes, I read it, and so all the other articles, yes, I got alarmed, but than, just read that again, it's just talk about costs, someone is making that money, someone is paying for it, what's new? The US $is inflated anyway, so, this might get it down, what's wrong about that?....a healthy realignment, ( I hope )

Insure : thanks for your support


(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:01 - ID#289357)
lady_bug @ Y2K

You and I ( and most others, I would think ) are on the same side when we hope that everything works out OK, and this is a relatively minor annoyance.

However, I am also in the BE PREPARED Camp. And I will be, before the crowd awakens - just in case.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:04 - ID#263254)
2 democratic congressmen are now openly
calling for Klintonite's resignation, Jim Trafficant and
Bob ( James?? ) . Go get 'em boys.

John Disney__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:13 - ID#24135)
Mandela went to court
After the big rugby screwup, when our glorious leader
gave Sports Minister Tshwete the go ahead to "investigate"
Sarfu ( the rugby board chaired by the unappetizing
Louis Luyt ) .. Well Louis didnt go for it and took the
Government to court .. Mandela was called to court for
abdicating his responsibilty to Tshwete by delegation.
The Judge found Mandela "often argumentative" and "less
than satisfactory" as a witness. He said Mandela refused
to answer certain questions and used the court as a
"podium for political rhetoric". He also "addressed
unbridled insults" to Luyt's advocate.
The judge went on to say that he understood that
Mandela was no longer young and that it must be a
traumatic and humiliating experience for to have been
compelled to testify .. but he added that Mandela had
been subpoenaed in the interest of justice.
The ANC was furious. Luyt got kicked out anyway... and
Mandela never watched rugby matches any more.
So RobNoel .. down here in Mandelaland .. we can take
our President to court if we like .. can you do it in
the USofA.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:16 - ID#252127)
Martin Armstrong should show and tell

about this 300 million ounce silver hoard reputed to exist in a former soviet state.
If he can't he should be class-actioned by the longs for manipulating the silver market.
What goes around comes around and makes for a level playing field.
Bet ol'bunker would love to see this.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:17 - ID#284255)
Lady Bug
Read some of the articles from this site.
It's the US Gov't IT site - very reputable

There is a lot of doom and gloom out there associated with Y2k.
But that does not necessarily negate the possible effects.

The reality of the situation is that the Y2k bug is very real.
That has already been accepted throughout most of the world.
Read some of the daily Y2k news reports.

One must now learn how it can affect oneself,
And to prepare for any unexpected problems.

There are many good sites around where you can learn.

Who knows how bad it'll be,
But rest assured it's coming.
It has a deadline.

As Yardini said:
"Hope for the best, prepare for the worst."
Or was it:
"Prepare for the worst, hope for the best."

Got Y2k - get gold.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:18 - ID#266105)

The first one of hepcat's two $2-up days?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:20 - ID#26793)
The Fed never discloses the reasons for their actions. It could be a bank in trouble or several banks. They could be funding the "Plunge Protection Team". Other guesses welcome.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:20 - ID#252150)
Dumb&dumber@Was there ever a Country cursed with dumber
bureaucrats/politicians than Canada? Can you imagine what a mark that our CB governor ( Theissen ) would be in a poker game? Months ago he tipped his hand by stating that he would'nt raise interest rates, thereby giving the shorts the green light to short our currency with impunity. The man does'nt have an inkling & there are 16 inklings in a clue. Absolutely no CDF whatsoever.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:20 - ID#34191)
@ladybug y2k
Being optimistic is great. I applaud you, but only if you are also prepared. If the stop lights go out, do you really think we'll have stop signs up by morning? It's cold here in January, and even gas furnaces don't work w/o power. If it's 20 below zero, where are you gonna put all those people who don't have heat? Do you suggest our emergency management teams should start thinking about that after it happens? Call me, I'll be glad to trade you some beef for a gold coin or two.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:20 - ID#402148)
Silver coming back, AU bouncing up.....
any one have any news on Marshall plan type bailout or Russia, USA or EURO maybe?

May be why UST bonds and dolar are tanking.....expanded "war time emergency spending".



(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:20 - ID#277302)
only its scope has changed, from one of nuclear annihilation to one of economic annihilation and the American is winning hands-down....but at what cost? what price?... and who will pay the heaviest price from the chaos that will ensue following the collapse of the current Russian system?. The American needs to ask himself these questions and he better be damned sure that he knows the answers.

Gusto Oro
(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:26 - ID#430260)
"The man does'nt have an inkling & there are 16 inklings in a clue."

That's the best line I've heard in months. Brilliant. = ) --Alan

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:26 - ID#277302)
The "Cold War" is alive and well
and in full swing today..... the subject content was somehow shortened in my last post.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:26 - ID#402148)
Bangle Dangle..did i see bullish key reversals near the close....
on both gold and silver?


Gusto Oro
(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:31 - ID#430260)
Any idiot can figure that if there ever was a 300 million oz hoard of silver anywhere in the former Soviet Union, it's long since been raped, pillaged, and traded off for a month's supply of cheap vodka and Western cigarettes. --Alan

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:35 - ID#93241)
Welcome abroard. It gets a little heated here sometimes, but it is nice to have a woman's perspective. I do find women to be a little more optimistic generally, which is a healthy thing, yes?

Mountain Goat
(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:37 - ID#35087)
@lady_bug RE: Y2K
LB: I think you are right in saying that humans have a way of
persevering. So even with some of the hardships that will certainly
ensue there will be places on earth and in the US where folks
band together and make the best of it.

But: Follow me through this one... Remember the Rodney King riots?
Remember the looting in New York when the power went out several
years ago? Remember the National Guard being called out after
hurricane Andrew to protect people from Miami looters?


Now imagine the power goes out come Jan 1, 2000. ( for only 2 days )
Imagine grocery stores empty because people did panic buying in late December
Imagine the phones are out because there is no power
Imagine all alarm systems dead because there is no power
Imagine NOBODY being able to dial 911
Imagine the police at home protecting their OWN families
Imagine the National Guardsmen at home for the same reason

I think if you live in the suburbs, and especially farther out of
town, people WILL share and help and protect eachother.

BUT. Do you think the folks in urban areas will sit quietly in
the dark with no TV, no police, no heat, no lights, and nothing
to do?

I hope you are right, and nothing too bad happens. There's a good chance
that we'll all feel like fools in Jan 2000 because Y2K didn't turn out
to be so bad, after all.
But like sharefin, Squirrel, and others here I'm preparing because
I love my family, and if things do get crazy ( and I'm NOT saying I know
that they will ) I want to be ready.

I have life insurance for the same reason.
I have auto insurance for the same reason.
I have home insurance for the same reason.

Got Y2K insurance?
Dat's why I'm here at Kitco ( among a bunch of incredibly smart people )


MG ( Go Gold! Go preparedness! ) ( Are they the same thing? Maybe. )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:40 - ID#280214)
re y2K optimistists and doubters - like ladybug and Midas
Those who see Silver & Gold behind every darkening cloud.
Why do Sharefin, Blooper, and others {such as I} continue beating the Y2K drum? Since everything will turn out all right and the current economies will continue floating along - why bother hoarding Gold, Silver, beef stew, rice and the means to defend them?

Is it enough to say - look here at what we found.
And leave it at that.
Those who take heed may survive.
Those who ignore the dropping barometer, nervous livestock and quickening wind may not.

Nuff said?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:46 - ID#280214)
Mountain Goat - good synopsis
But I think you are being optimistic.
None of us can conceive of how bad it may really get.
Unless we had spent the last ten years in Sarajevo
or Indonesia recently or other similar places/times.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:47 - ID#257136)
cowgirl in your 14:20 to lady bug you mentioned emergency response teams.
It awakened a train of thought in my slumbering paranoid cerebrum.

That is a derned good excuse for the FEMA folks to use in order to send everybody from the cold areas to the hot spots.Save them fro ol' Jack Frost. ( :+^}
Total dislocation of a major portion of the population.

If the guys enforcing the "cattle drive" just happen to be U.N. troops from Red China, they'll get obedience from the chattel or they'll be bringin' in backhoes and blades to dig the mass burial trenches as was done at babiyar,katyn forest,bosnia, ad infinitum......

'Course they could just let 'em freeze and haul 'em out to the fields to thaw for the varmints in the spring.
Critters gotta eat, right?
The Green monsters would not raise a hand to protect the "tame " population, but would be overjoyed to see so much rich food for the protected species.

Ain't it turrabul what the human mind can dream up?
If I can dream it up, you can be assured some of our brothers in gubmnt can do likewise.

Remember Himler and Co.?

Now I recall precisely who algore reminds me of!!

Give him a mustache!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:49 - ID#252127)
Gusto Oro

It's the question of using outright lies to manipulate a commodity to ones own benefit; Armstrong seems quite experienced in those matters.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:53 - ID#153102)
@Donald @Fall of Communism @Voting Rodents
So many possibilities for the need to add reserves. So many derivatives. And the IMF in such need to help Russia so it doesn't collapse, totally, before Clinton's arrival.

Fow can The Evil Empire be fallen when USG is still standing ? What does the phrase "control of the allocation of all credit in any form whatsoever" mean to you ?

"Registering" to vote is hardly free. That "franchise to vote", like any franchise from government, don't come without fees and strings. Just what is a franchise anyway ? Got Clues ?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:54 - ID#372228)
Y2K Problem Solution
I think we should all schedule a 2 week cruise to the Carribean from 12/30/1999 until 1/12/2000. That way we would have all the food we needed and it would be that a solution or what!!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:55 - ID#388209)
Strat, Never suck up to a woman right out of the box !
She'll think you can be had without a struggle & won't respect you in the morning !


Mountain Goat
(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:56 - ID#35087)
Truly, my fluffy friend I WAS being optomistic.
I'll admit that *I* think it will be AT LEAST as bad as I just outlined,
with the possibility of complete civil breakdown for a few months to
a few years.

Incredible personal debt +
Incredible government debt +
Stock market crash +
Y2K +
Lack of personal responsibiliy of average American ( Joe Sixpack ) +
Lack of morals on the part of Joe & Company +
General disregard for authority in US
TOTAL = Something I'm not sure I can imagine.

As Nicodemus posted earlier, we can try to prepare, but nobody really
knows what specifically may happen. We've never been here before.


MG ( Go Gold! )

EZ Believer__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:58 - ID#173262)
(Gusto Oro, you got it!)

Just ask anyone who owned Goldbelt!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 14:59 - ID#354133)
You want to know where a dough-nut shop is, ask a cop.
You want to get hassled for jay-walking, ask a cop.
You want a ticket for minor traffic infractions, ask a cop.
You want to get arrested for smoking grass in you own home, ask a cop.
You want to get shot, ask a cop.

You want advice on how to protect yourself and your property, forget the cop ( especially a retired one ) - ask Messrs. Smith & Wesson, Glock, Beretta, and few other choice gentlemen residing near your hip pocket. Oh yes, and if you want to get arrested in Cleveland, New York City, and several other places in the USA, just let somebody know that you've got an handgun on your person.

The courts have ruled on numerous occasions that police forces are not obligated to provide protection to "the people". They cannot be held accountable or sued for not keeping order in chaotic situations. Yet at the same time, these same courts rule that "the people" do not have a right to defend themselves or their property via the use of deadly force ( guns ) in numerous locales.

When push comes to shove, the cops will not go there if they think they're outnumbered or in danger. Look at the L.A. riots as the prime example of how effective cops are.

John B__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:02 - ID#77133)
I was struck by your reference yesterday to Steve Kaplan's perennial bullishness. I have followed him closely and I do recall that he did turn at least short-term bearish on gold this past April when the COT commercials were negative. I also believe that when gold was over $400 per ounce that the commercials were also then very negative as was he.

I must admit to being disappointed lately in the POG both emotionally and financially but I can see the possibility of a good gold move as soon as the yen's recovery is in sight; this in tandem with a stock bear market here.

Gold stocks were slaughtered up to yesterday - worse than the Russell 2000. This recovery looks interesting.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:03 - ID#153102)
With FEMA in the control room, there's gonna be regional outages and who will be the wiser as to the cause ? You are damned right about them using dislocation and relocation to confuse, frighten, and control.

As to Emergency Response Teams, there is already teams of 100 assigned to each of the 10 regions. Best equipped and trained killing and destroying agents in the history of the world. A little carbon filament goes a long way in the electric grid. Now, to what are these people loyal ? Rule of Law ? I don't thin so, senor.

John B__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:05 - ID#77133)
To all
I do miss the postings of APH. Has he expressed a trader's view lately? He has been a light in the storm for some time.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:16 - ID#30116)
Gold in the STOCK news? Times, they are a changing?
This is a link to CBS Market Watch/DBC news on St. Judes ( ? ) mine.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:17 - ID#30116)
What's with this URL stuff?????? Can't even post a link.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:21 - ID#288399)
Blooper Re: Soros
Soros is really long-term. Maybe he's taking a hit here so he can incited real panic and pull down paper all together. Seeing as he has supposedly bought up mines in South America and other places, he can then collect from asset price inflation when everyone panics out of ALL currencies. Debt default train is a-comin'.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:21 - ID#174239)
Y2K won't be a suprise, especially in North and South America.
Of all the computer bugs and glitches in the world, Y2K is the most common, but also the most publicised. No one will be caught by suprise when it hits. At 11:59pm, December 31 1999 everyone will hold thier breath for a minuite. If people see the electricity go off and their watches act strange, they will shrug and say "there goes Y2K, just like they said". Those of us in America will get to see what happend to Asia and Europe hours ahead of time on CNN. People in LA will be braced for whatever happened in New York.

Even if you wanted to take a flight during the changeover, you probably won't find an airline willing to risk the litigation by flying you then. I suspect hospitals and anyone else in charge of human life will take similar precautions.

The usual century turnover panic we get every 100 years, compounded by media induced frenzy, will ensure everyone has already bought out all the canned goods, Coleman lanterns, and shotgun shells they need. I think most people will be ready for the worst, then reality will be less severe than the most dire predictions spouted on HardCopy. There will probably be a nice Y2K disaster movie to watch around Christmas 1999, Bruce Willis will probably play the part of a Cobal programnmer at the Pentagon.

I recomend that you buy your precious metals now, before the media tells the general public to do so next year as part of thier survival package.

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:22 - ID#212323)
Mozel...your long post within the last 24 know the one...
My hat is you. Thanks for the lecture. Fine information for all to digest.

And to Allen ( USA ) , brother, your short story was suitable for illustrations and publication. Thanks for the well-crafted analogy! shoulder a burden I would not wish upon others...

got shoulders?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:22 - ID#320202)
wowa, talk about opening a can of worms ....

hey guys and dolls, hold the flak

BUT. Do you think the folks in urban areas will sit quietly in
the dark with no TV, no police, no heat, no lights, and nothing
to do?
YES, YES, and I know so, cause I lived through it in this winters icestorm in the northcountry, there was nothing, zilch and it was cold,
I melted snow, boiled it and had tea, put potatoes in the fireplace, heated cans or ate them cold , melted snow for the toilets to flush, and you know for how long? three weeks, and you know what, folks where terrific, nicer , calmer more helpful than in the good times ! Folks who had no fireplace, took complete strangers in, etc.etc. etc
I also remember still the warstories my parents told me and how life was than, ( I am from europe ) , you get what you seed, if you seed panic and keep fire arms, well, you know what I mean

I like the idea with the boat, I might just do that, even longer than 2 weeks,

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:24 - ID#255226)
If you're trading the silver market you should be long the Dec Silver from 5.10 or lower. ( 8/7 20:47, 8/9 22:58 ) . Based on today's market I would guess we have seen the bottom for the next leg up. Move your stop up to 5.08. Your risk should be no more then $100 per contract with a paper profit of $600. Now sit back and see what happens. I went partly into Fidelity Select Gold today.
Current Positions
Short Sept S&P 195.50, would reverse today at 1055.
Gold - flat
Long Dec silver 5.10 ( I had an order in at 5.085 to buy, but it wasn't filled, I think some floor broker kept it for himself}.
Long wheat 2.72 stops 2.68

Spud Master
(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:35 - ID#28586)
@Donald re. Fed in trouble re. funding the PPT....
come on, the Fed is accountable to NO ONE. Period.

They can bloody well tap on a computer keyboard and viola! Instant magic US dollars to cajol, persuade, manipulate, bribe etc.... you going to audit them?

I'll tell you what the Fed is: It is a "lawfully" sanctioned slaver organization, whereby the American people & their wealth are the collateral behind the Fed's false and unconstitutional "money", the sorry Federal Reserve Note.

it's called POWER. and that is the first, middle and last word about the whole, rotten, stinking, putrescent crap we see happening around the world: "You an expendable asset, Dillon..."

the people of the world have been slowly and arefully conditioned to believe in "nothing" called paper money and digital money and are thus controlled, and ultimately led to their ruination. Meanwhile, honest unforgable Constitutional money, gold & silver have been projected as worthless at best, or Nazi-related at worst ( see Swiss gold ) .

While the Indonesian, the Malay, the Phillipino, the Singaporean, the Thai, the Russian worry about where their next meal will come from, wonder what became of their job, wonder how they got so deep into debt -- their fat, sleek, well-fed politicians and central bankers ponder whether it shall be the brunette or the blonde this evening.

Damn the Federal Reserve and every other confidence-based swindle organization called Central Banks.

This much is true: the end of the tyranny of the Fed and other CBs will be coincident with terrible times.

Spud: "Impeach them, impeach them both.."

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:35 - ID#368244)
@ All
Food should not be a problem here in Louisiana, after all Cajuns eat anything , frogs , bugs [ as in mudbugs], rats [ as in Nutria ], squirrels, poke salad, raccoons, possum, and anything that swims.

Such behavior is the result of necessity, after all, necessity is the mother of invention. It may turn out not to be a bad thing. YES!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:38 - ID#238422)
John Disney and Junior
Brothers, I got really bad report on Russian
situation. Really bad. Whatever we talked
about mafia and all little things like IMF, Soros and
other crap may not apply any more... It's not american TV,
it may be very well for real. September-October may be
really tough...

Let's get scared real bad and let's start
is clear now that it's ALL we can do now...I'm serious.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:41 - ID#384350)
King Klinton
People tend to underestimate the power of Klinton. If OJ can get acquitted, you better believe Klinton can get off if he wants. That stain on her dress might miraculously turn out to be just sour cream dripping out of a Burrito Supreme. And that totally wouldn't be a lie.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:42 - ID#434108)
Isure @ 15:35 - a high protein diet
I hear that such a diet, leads to a superior life-style,
( not-withstanding my vegetarian teacher-gurus ) ....
yes? no?

By the way, do you-all ...
cook all that stuff,
before you eat it?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:45 - ID#434108)
Gianni @ 15:41 - OJ's acquittal
Could that mean
that OJ - orange-juice futures,
will collapse,
within the next 5 trading days,
so I can salvage my Sept. OJ puts?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:46 - ID#350179)
Russian Banks Stop Loans to One Another

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:47 - ID#212323)
Oris...Yours is the single most troubling piece of near-news I have encountered in months...
Shall we try to get off this planet somehow?

Away...with bigger burdens than before!!

got rocket fuel?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:50 - ID#434108)
one perspective on the importance/impact of Russia
Paul Erdman, at apparently -
not very concerned about Russia's 'plight':

By Paul E. Erdman, CBS MarketWatch
Last Update: 11:03 AM ET Aug 13, 1998

SAN FRANCISCO ( CBS.MW ) -- This morning I got a call from a friend
asking whether it was true that the Russian stock market had to suspend
trading for 45 minutes Tuesday, seriously affecting U.S. markets. Further, I
was asked whether it would pose even more serious repercussions for
stock markets around the world if Russian stocks and bonds continued to
sink, and if the ruble is devalued -- mimicking the effects similar events
have had in Asia.

My reply: "Russian stock market" is basically an oxymoron.

Average daily trading is down to a total of $10
million a day vs. $28 billion on the New York
Stock Exchange. A 45-minute suspension of
trading in Moscow has about as much significance
for the rest of the world as the 45-minute rain delay
in Tuesday night's baseball game pitting the
Missoula Gophers vs. the Casper Prairie Dogs. In
fact, the stock market in Moscow could close
down completely and nobody in Russia -- except for the foreign
correspondents -- would care less.

But what about Russia's government bonds, which the market values at 30
cents on the dollar?

My answer: Anybody dumb enough to buy Russian paper -- stocks or
bonds -- deserves everything he gets. This includes Mark Mobius, the
self-proclaimed Russian financial expert who has run the Templeton Russia
Fund ( TRF ) from 65 down to 18 in the past year.

The big "scare" is that Russia at some point won't
be able to meet its foreign debt obligations when
they come due. True, it only has $18 billion worth
of U.S. cash in its reserves. But it also has an
untapped $20 billion credit line at the IMF, which is
now committed to keeping Russia afloat financially
no matter what.

Even if the ruble were devalued, it would have
basically zero effect on U.S. financial markets,
which have an infinitesimal financial exposure there.
Germany might be different, since their banks have
got their necks stuck way out in Russia.

This doesnt mean we should not monitor events
there carefully. But the reason is geopolitical, not
financial. The last thing we need is for Russia to go
into a domestic financial and economic tailspin that
would lead to a political lurch to either the far left or
far right. That's why Washington and the IMF will continue to support the
young men now running Russia in times of temporary financial crises.

So scratch the Russian doomsday scenario.

Economist and author Paul E. Erdman is a columnist for CBS

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:50 - ID#267255)
Silverbaron & gunrunner
Thank you for responding to me this morning with the Savage contact number. Thought surely I had it around here somewhere. I don't know if was misplaced either in the Y2K stash or possibly in Bart's Mountie's stack. But......I sure couldn't find it. Thanks, and good luck to you both.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:52 - ID#57232)
Y2k and FEMA
All: I know I am preaching to the ( often paranoid ) choir, but I'll tell you what really irks me. That is, the main problem with y2k will not be the US businesses or the banks, it will be the US government. I worked for the government many years ago, and I know that it is nearly impossible to get relatively low level career employees excited about anything urgent such as y2k. Why should they? Their salary is guaranteed whatever they do.
So -- with the exception of the admirable diligence of Social Security to fix their problems begun in 1989 or so, the US government is not going to be ready for y2k. Unfortunately the valiant efforts of Social Security may be for naught, given that the check printing service apparently does not even know what y2k means. A fix is unlikely even if the y2k Czar 'mobilizes the troops' at this late date. Come to think of it there is some justice after all in this -- all federal employees will have the same problem with their paychecks. None.
What really makes me mad is that the spin doctors will somehow convince the public that FEMA will handle all the y2k emergencies the Government has created in its inefficient wisdom. Perhaps the spin doctors will somehow make the public think that it is not the governments fault. I wonder who they will blame? So, the US government creates the problem, and assigns FEMA to handle the crowd control. And -- why FEMA? When is the last time the FEMA handled crowd control? Why not have the individual states handle the dispensation of emergency checks or cash to the waiting recipients? This seems to me a very transparent attempt at wresting more control from the states, when the states are probably best equipped to handle the problem.
My guess is that the US government does not have the resources to handle this -- for the same reason that they cannot handle y2k. And -- they will have egg all over their faces. The states will wind up organizing the y2k business anyhow.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:52 - ID#394240)
ladybug about to be SQUUUUIIIIISHED! BY y2k1
Will wipe you off my golden windshield as I drive into my bunker. : )

Lan Man
(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:53 - ID#317183)
@Declining Freedom and The Rise of its Dictators
If you are like most Americans, you didnt bother to notice that when statists came for the owners of "public buildings," violating the property rights of these owners, that, in principle, your rights were undermined, undermining what you may do in your own home. You didnt speak out because you are not an owner of one of these "public buildings." When statists came for the owners of tobacco companies, infringing on their right of ownership and restricting their freedom of speech, you didnt speak out because you are not one of the owners of a tobacco company or you are not a smoker or you consider smoking to be an evil which must be wiped out at all costs, even at the cost of your freedom, your freedom to follow your own judgment. When they persecuted and imprisoned innocent individuals for "abuse," you didnt speak out because you were not the one being persecuted. When they imprisoned those individuals for disturbing the "wetlands," you said nothing because you thought it would never affect you, oblivious to the fact that your backyard is a "wetland." When they searched, without warrant, the private property of business owners, you said nothing because these were only business owners and you are not a business owner. When they seized property without due process, you said nothing because it wasnt your property being seized, even though it could be and will be tomorrow. When they imposed arbitrary fines, you said nothing because you were not the one victimized...

Brings to mind the quote attributed to Protestant minister Martin Neimoller, who reflected upon Germanys fall to the Nazis. Excellent reading although only the first 8 chapters are currently avail online.

From Chapter 7 "FATAL BLINDNESS" by Fulton Huxtable

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:54 - ID#153102)
FedRes is legally sanctioned, but not "lawfully" sanctioned. What was founded in America was government under God and under Law. Christian common law. What the usurpers have restructured it into is government under Tyrants and Stooge Attorneys. Woe unto ye lawyers.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:54 - ID#257136)
squirrel:Yesterday as I was searching for something else in my file drawer, i came upon my
records of Amendment Ten- citizen sponsored attempt to restrain taxation in Colorado. It was in 74 or 76, can't remember as there was so much going on for so long until the party ended in near disaster for some of us.
There were a good handful of us.
We got nearly twice the number of signatures needed and got it on the ballot.
In essence, what it said was;

Unless approved by a MAJORITY of all eligible electors, no new tax may be imposed or any current tax increased.

Until the last week before the election things went swimmingly.
I was able to get the Mayor Of Brighton to endorse it.
Others were able to get some state Representatives and other politicians to do likewise.
The polls showed a favorable election by 70% to 30%.

To this day I am not sure that there was no electronic wizardry accomplished, as we lost by 70% to 30%.
The electronic voting by punching cards had recently been inaugrated in CO.
I personally believe that there was some real dirty work at the crossroads ( election h.q. throughout the state. )

It took until the last week before the election for the Ol' Boys to catch on that legally, every person of voting age who was of sound mind , a Colorado resident, not an alien ( earthling variety ) or an ex con, Is and WAS an eligible elector.

From the beginning we knew what we were doing.!!
I think that if it had succeeded there would have been nearly a score of martyrs to the cause of freedom. I mean martyrs of the dead kind!
The powers that be would have had to concoct some rationale for the courts striking down a law which had been voted on by the people.
I have never really trusted election returns since then, knowing how easy it has become and how easy it was then for totals and individual votes to be changed electronically.
BTW, I was an upper mid-level employee of the state at the time.
The entire thing can be researched.
Or you can locate one R.R.Goggin in Denver. He can fill you in on the entire deal.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 15:56 - ID#424394)
Isure - the Bambi defenders will be appalled!
Meat on the hoof or paws or little bird feet.
With the collapse of food growing & distribution system
and plenty of macho wanna-be hunter types with lots of guns & ammo,
I give all wildlife larger than a ground squirrel about 6 months.
They will be cleaned out, decimated, extinct to the last spring fawn.
There won't be any breeding stock, calves or baby rabbits to start over with. We will have eaten all the seed corn and seed potatoes too.
Then we will be eating each other!
How's THAT for pessimism!
Given all the above - what will Gold buy?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:01 - ID#207145)
Are you going off the deep end?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:02 - ID#434108)
watch the major banks
at, Paul erdman's comments
on the world's largest banks,
suggest that these banks, and
their stocks' charts, are worth tracking/following.

( Anybody got a good index of them?
Thanks, David; )


By Paul E. Erdman, CBS MarketWatch
04:41 PM August 11, 1998

Also on CBS
Paul Erdman:
Yankee go home
Silver Bulls
IMF on track
Interest Rates
Clinton's broke
Monica mania
Japan outlook
Europe next?
Asian crisis
Paul Erdman

Related news:
News Index
Int'l. stocks
Market Snapshot

SAN FRANCISCO ( CBS.MW ) -- One measure of how well a country
is doing on a global basis is the ranking of its flagship banks in world

Twenty-five years ago, American banks were dominant. Ten years ago,
Japanese banks held most of the top spots and the United States none.
Today, the picture looks like this in terms of market capitalization:

Billions of $'s
United Bank of Switzerland
Hong Kong Shanghai
Bank of America
Chase Manhattan
* - in formation

Most striking is the return of American banks to the list, now four of the
top eight, and the disappearance of Japanese banks, with the exception of
the Bank of Tokyo/Mitsubishi.

"Most striking
is the return of
banks to the
list, now four
of the top eight

Paul Erdman

This, of course, reflects the decline of Japan as a world economic and
financial power in the 1990's, and the return to ascendancy of the United
States in this decade.

The fact that Lloyds leads the league reflects not only that it has been on
an acquisition binge but also that the economy of the United Kingdom is
today in better shape than it has been since World War II, the healthiest in

Tired tigers

The high ranking of the Bank of Hongkong and Shanghai reflects more
past glory, when the Asia Tigers were flying high, than future prospects
when the entire region will be in recession or worse.

Finally, a new star is emerging in Switzerland. Last week the shareholders
of two of Switzerland's largest banks, the United Bank of Switzerland,
based in Zurich, and the Swiss Bank Corporation, based in Basel, voted
overwhelming in favor of a merger. That merger will become effective in

An English name was chosen for the new bank that will result: The United
Bank of Switzerland. It will rank #2 in the world in terms of market

In terms of the money that it will run for its investment clients -- well over a
trillion dollars -- it will get the gold medal as the #1 financial powerhouse
on earth.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:04 - ID#434108)
blooper @ 16:01, the deep end
we went off
long ago

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:06 - ID#368244)

In a very large pot... truthfully, I am a chicken and salad man myself... do you think I would eat that other stuff?

Mad Hatter__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:08 - ID#284230)
deep end
Luckily there still is Prozac and Viagra...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:09 - ID#434108)
a possible answer to Grizz's question @ 15:56
what gold will 'THEN' buy:

perhaps toothpicks....?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:11 - ID#350179)
North Korea threatens to resume nuclear program

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:12 - ID#219363)
Well that wasn't so bad, 100 pts. After watching the markets last nite, I actually thought it might be worse. Russia looking pretty ugly this morning and I was expecting a little more, umm, attention I guess is the word, from the market.

You'll know it's a bear when the phrase "Lost all of it's gains from Wednesday" turns into "Back to Tuesday's decline after a short rally on Wednesday".

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:12 - ID#207145)
I thought I was PARANOID
Hell, I might be sane after all. Tho I doubt it. Who was that. Get yer gun.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:14 - ID#207145)
Sunshine is out-- It's a beautiful day. (If youre in cash).

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:15 - ID#252127)
This is just a postulation, but.......

If Pan American Silver is forced out, or backs out of Dukat, one can bet that Soros controlled Apex Silver will make a play for Dukat.
Best to play the Western Hemisphere's silver miners but to keep a close watch on Russian mining.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:16 - ID#434108)
$64.00 question of the day:
Random Reckless Pollsters, Inc.'s
current random poll:
If silver 'dips' below $5.00/oz. tomorrow, Fri., 8/14/98,
will you
buy call options in Dec. Silver,
at $5.50 & $6.00 strikes ?

Yes: __________

No: __________

Why?: __________


(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:16 - ID#219363)
Ahhhhhh, cash, cha-CHING.

Flash Gordon__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:17 - ID#326279)

It is a brave man who dares make a call in contradiction to Sharefin's swing index ( ! ) , but I'm short-term bearish on the dow as of today. I feel we have got the climax of a wave four up and the next wave 5 is indeed down. 8100? 7700? 7500? 7400?

I know, I know, short term sentiment is too bearish for any serious dammage to be done. I know we are horribly over sold and also that the Fed has pumped liquidity into the market today. So maybe a small fall to 8300ish. Hope we do then get a powerful a-b-c thingy into September. It'll give people one last chance to get out of equities and provide an opportunity for the shorts.

We shall see.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:18 - ID#207145)
Sorry to report; Tomorro is another day. The world doesn

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:18 - ID#280214)
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD - take it easy on the lady_bug
I'll bet she is just giving us a foil to rant with. She is probably privately squirreling away peanut butter & honey just in case.
No need to get your guts all in a splatter - yet.

a.j. A state tax limitation amendment finally passed several years ago.
It took several tries with each attempt getting closer and the legislature and local governments ignoring the growing numbers.
Finally they had their hands tied to a majority vote of the people to pass any new taxes. Ever since then, local government taxing entities here has had a tough time having their way. We just say no to most everything.

Isure and Grizz - no way you can clean out all the squirrels.
Squirrel Clan - stopping us is not an option

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:19 - ID#153102)
Secret Ballot Voting is the same damned thing as Secret Elections and Secret Government. Why should a man hide his Vote ? If he is afraid to vote in the open, does he think his vote will be counted honestly by those he fears ?

Where are the electoral rolls ? Where are the Electors of the Constitution ?

If people would wake up and refuse the "franchise", it is obvious the so-called States have no Constitutional source of revenue but the federal martial scrip. They are not lawful, constitutional government of Christian common law Republics. They are renegade International Socialist Republics under the protection of and subject to USG.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:19 - ID#402148)
Hate to interupt, but anyone got any thoughts about GOLD,
and if this the start of a $100 pop up.


(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:20 - ID#394240)
DOW DOWN 93.46!
Only 6 points and change away from the allotted 100 points/day down. Close enough for gobrment workers.

EBgonetocheckwhydisneyclosedtodayat31 3/8down10%fromwhereheboughtat35scheiss!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:20 - ID#207145)
Typo. How bout I just put youse guys out of your misery. Light em up if youre medicinal.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:23 - ID#207145)
Or short

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:26 - ID#207145)
Golden Cheesehead
He went to buy more. He's looking for a big rally ( Disney ) .

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:27 - ID#434108)
Israel vs Iran = bull market for gold, "some-day"

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:27 - ID#434108)
Israel vs Iran = bull market for gold, "some-day"

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:28 - ID#207145)
8th biggest point drop in DOW TRANSPORTS.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:29 - ID#207145)
Transports, my scare tactic of the day

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:29 - ID#394240)

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:29 - ID#327123)
@ all
An investment company president was on CNBC about 20 min after close and said people are stating to loss faith paper money. Are we begining the switch to Gold? Things are starting to fall in place. Go Gold!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:30 - ID#207145)
Transports, my scare tactic of the day

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:31 - ID#207145)
Clinton Puts on CRYING SHOW. Harry come here. Madeline!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:31 - ID#316193)
First Polish Central Bank, Now Venezuela is in the News

Click on "N.Y. Precious Metals Review"

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:32 - ID#207145)
Clinton Puts on CRYING SHOW. Harry come here. Madeline!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:32 - ID#207145)
Clinton Puts on CRYING SHOW. Harry come here. Madeline!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:37 - ID#434108)
fibbonacci numbers -researcher Joe DiNapoli
According to chan. 22 kwhy interview with him today, he expects:

Dow, or was that the S&P, down to 6600;

and an explosive, powerful rally - or bull market - in gold.

This is based on monthly and quarterly charts, and analysis,
of his interpretation and refinement of fibbonacci numbers.

as I understand it, this is not meant for short-term trading.

Has anyone read his book: "Trading with DiNapoli Numbers" ?
Is anyone here at kitco, familiar with his concepts?


Does anyone know the correct spelling of: 'fibbonacci' ...?!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:40 - ID#207145)
CNBC says Star will try to catch Prez with "Legal Jargon"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John Disney__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:44 - ID#24135)
This sounds Bad
Oris my brother ..
I believe you .. if only we could
have gotten Natasha out before things
went this far.
This will either be good for gold ..
or bad for gold ..
or have no effect whatever.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:44 - ID#434108)
a buy?
no, a steal

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:45 - ID#258142)
fibonacci in binary. that's rule the markets?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:46 - ID#257148)
Puha and Pakeha
If the anarchy is as bad as all that, then at least here in what used to be called "The Cannibal Islands", human beans ( called "long pigs" by the maori ) will be high on the menu after dogs and cats.

Puha=a green spinach-like vegetable the is ubiquitous hereabouts
Pakeha= same as above, but is white and belongs to the caucasian race.

Put 'em in a stew, Stu, and stir.

John Disney__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:47 - ID#24135)
Spelling bee
for goldfever ..
yes and that's not it !

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:53 - ID#434108)
$18 billion inflow per day, into the U.S. is necessary, to support her/our markets/economy.
This morning, on chan 22, kwhy, Los Angeles,
there was an opinion expressed, as above
( - as best I can recall ) .

Does anyone have any factual data on this, that
you'd be willing to share, at kitco,
&/or in an e-mail, to me, at:

If this is so,
there is no reason to be 'too/very bullish', on U.S. bonds.


Mtn Bear (SE)
(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:55 - ID#347267)
Oil Patch
( Black Gold )
Look at these volumes! Big volumes scare me with a mixed picture like this. Could be large holders or funds unloading taking advantage of the oil ( commodity ) uptick. With the possible exception of Amoco ( merger with BP ) ; and Phillips, Mobil, and Atl. Richfield ( bouncing off long term lows ) all the charts not that bullish.
See: Comments please

(Thu Aug 13 1998 16:56 - ID#434108)
John Disney @ 16:47 -Spelling your bees
ok, don't rub it in..... know-it-all.
is actually my great uncle....
we didn't get a-long too well, however.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:01 - ID#252391)
Silver Stocks and APH
Great call, APH, buying silver at $5.10. Silver mining and Stillwater ( SWC ) behaved much more like the general market and didn't react very positively to what has the looks of a critical turn in the silver and maybe gold markets. Still they ( the metals ) trade in lock step with the yen. For me the downtrend is still in effect. A close now over $5.25, especially if the yen were no higher would find me throwing in more with the metal stocks.

XAU up dispite the decline in DOW - transfer of money to this depressed sector may now begin to quicken and certainly would be helped by a further rally in the metals.

The sea change is coming.......

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:03 - ID#424394)
Aurator and all meat eaters
Speaking of protein on the "hoof"

Toothpicks! I must put away a few gross of boxes thereof.
And lots and lots of Louisiana Hot Sauce!

How much Gold do you think a nice young tender 100 pounder would be worth? Maybe its weight in Gold?

Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:03 - ID#384350)
Gold Value/Price
My opinion is that Gold will not explode in dollar terms until after the financials and property markets have first collapsed. Gold/Silver prices, expressed in dollars, could be taken down much lower as govts try to sell PM's to defend the system, and as other individuals are forced/encouraged to sell their PM's like in So. Korea. If gold is taken much lower in price ( not necessarily in value or purchasing power ) then one would wonder about certain mining shares who have heavy debtloads. However if loans are denominated in a currency that is collapsing ( hyperinflation ) , maybe that mining company might just get a free lunch.

In another matter, a couple people have told me that property prices in Paris have been dropping

After the washout ( market collapse ) the dollar will be vulnerable, there could be War.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:03 - ID#153102)
As you are not content with any frail vessel that crosses my path called by God to carry Gospel to NZ and have specified a particular saint to peripitate, you may also pay the passage. My condolences for the ministrations there of the London Missionary Society.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:04 - ID#252391)
John Disney
What's you feeling about SGOLY at 2 1/2? and HGMCY at 3 3/4

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:08 - ID#288369)
As you know, er, as you well know, here in the land o' the redman we have eaten human beans down through the ages....especially during oil gluts. Yes, I have my one good eye on my neighbor's plump wife. yum yum.
I wish this practice had never started. And I do know better...but some traditions can be real tough, to swallow. and winter's coming.
A fine Gulp & Puha to YA!!! eeeee...and joe.ely.

Is T#1 can he come out and play? pleeeease?


(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:09 - ID#258142)
POG 293 - 296 next week. Dow bit up

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:11 - ID#28861)
Bill Murphy is right about one Euro CB selling Gold
From the CRB link posted earlier....

One trader said that even as it rallied, gold stayed shaky, noting
that a European bank had been selling heavily into the rallies.

Sep silver was choppy today, dropping to a 2 1/2 month low of $5.04
per ounce, falling on technical weakness. Hildebrandt noted that it stalled at a number of support points this week, such as $5.30 and $5.20.
However, one trader said that when shorts were unable to push it below
$5, some of them bought it back. "They were trying for $5, but then become disappointed and gave up," he said, noting that it also received support from gold's climb.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:12 - ID#384350)
goldfevr, 18 billion a day
That might be 18 Billion a MONTH. The US trade deficit is around there, and its negative effects on the Dollar are being displaced by capital inflows: Japanese Big Bang, UK buying US Treasuries, perceived safe haven status.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:12 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Brother John,

We gonna have a lot of Natashas...the worse
it gets, the larger the number of Natashas in
foreign hands - first Oris's law of Russian

Don't know too if it's gonna be good for gold,
but it's gonna be bad for DM for sure...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:14 - ID#246224)
lady_bug re: Y2K
If you have read any of my posts you know that I do not feel the same as you regarding the outcome of this problem. I would dearly love to see my forebodings laughed to scorn on that blue, crystal morning in January as things work out and people continue about their lives. What a relief that would be!

Localized disasters tend to have localized results. There is a large pool of unaffected resources that surround the affected area. Those resources flow in to fill the gap. We have seen this time and again on television, and even participated in these efforts ourselves on occation.

Unfortunately, we have never experienced a problem like this; it is global, universal ( extent ) . It is entwined in the fabric of our modern way of life ( depth of involvement ) . It is a kind of problem which, for the most part, is hidden from view ( not tangible ) .

The modern world economy is based on a fabric of computer technology. The potatos and canned goods you ate during the ice storm were a product of that system. While the infrastructure in your area was down you were living off of the past operations of that system. You knew that eventually things would be hooked up again and life would go on more or less as it had.

Part of the reality of the world economic system is that it is based on flow, not on reserves. When the flow of capital is reduced then economic recessions, and sometimes depressions, occure. If the flow of information is reduced what happens??? We are talking about the fabric that supports all other operations of the economy. What if the fabric began to tear and rip? We have never faced this before. The only contingency ever planned for where the technical fabric of a modern economy was in question was nuclear war and the telecommunications web ( the resultant technology was the predecessor of the current Internet ) .

What happens when the information web in a power plant fails? The plant shuts down. What happens when the information web in a telephone switch room fails? The switch halts and all telephone traffic dies. What happens when the information web on an ocean oil platform fails? It stops operating. None of these technical marvels can be operated by hand anymore .. there are no manual controls except for emergency shut off values to stop operations.

There is a tremendous interdependency in a 'flow' based economy. There are few reserves, few warehouses and few inventories. These interdependencies are serial chains of cause and effect which span huge distances and technologies. If one link breaks then the chain fails. And if the chain fails then the flow slows or stops. More over, flow economies are profitable only at high rates of demand. If flow declines ( let alone stops ) then the companies which compose the chain go bancrupt. The bancruptcy is spread out over time by firing people as the flow decreases until the company is only a shell of its former glory, if it even survives.

Capers-Jones estimates that at a remediation success rate of 95% ( that is to say that every entity remediates and corrects what it perceives as 100% of the problems, yet actually only fixes 95% of the problems in software ) would mean that 7% of all municipatities and 5% of all corporations would go under. He commentates that the very best IT maintainance projects rarely reach 90% fix rates.

So would it be safe to extrapolate that if everyone did there darnest here and all over the world and everyone achieved what they thought was 100% success on their projects that 14% of all municipalities and 10% or all corporation world wide would roll into bancruptcy?

14% is 1 in 7 towns, cities & counties
( remember Orange County? )

10% is 900 of the 9000 publicly traded corporations in America
( remember Chrystler? )

Capers-Jones commentates that this 90% figure will probably never be acheived by the average effort. So the above figures would be worse.

But this assumes that 100% of the world acheives the same project completion and efficacy rates.

There is a certain point in time at which there is no possible logistical way that a remediation can be completed and tested ( are we there yet .. those in the IT community who have spoken out on this have said that we are way beyond the point where a ( one ) 10 million line system can now be remediated and tested successfully ) . That will result in a complete failure of that corporation.

The difficult part of this is determining by looking from the outside in, through a keyhole or less, what the level of achievement exsists for ALL Y2000 repair projects here and in the world at large. No company is telling what the details of its plans are or where they are in their plan or whether they think they are ahead, on target or behind schedule as this relates to their milestones ( or what their milestones are ) .

Two thirds of the recent filings with the SEC reported that the filers where still in the "Assessment/Inventory" phase of their project as of the end of Q1Y98. 80% of the top electrical power producers which represent 67% of the electrical power generation capacity in the USA reported before Congress that they were at the same stage of project, "A/I". When you see Merryl/Lynch up its Y2K budget by $100,000,000 in one wack what part of the Y2K project do you think they just finished? Assessment/Inventory/Strategy. They finally figured out their problem and had to adjust their cost to the new information. If they were further along then this figure would not have been increased so radically ( plus 40% ) .

A little example for illustration. In the healthcare institution in which I work we have not even started remediation yet. They have just appointed a Y2000 project manager on a full time basis. The good news is that we have some very dedicated and motivated people who have put us at the forefront of remediation in the healthcare field. The bad news is that most other providers in the USA are lagging behind us. BTW over half of our payments come from the US gov one way or the other. We would not survive financially if that 'flow' decreased much at all.

My conclusion is that we will not be ready either globally or here in the States. We will walk blindly into this one because we just can not face the horrible reality of the situation and what it points to in the immediate future. Flow will stop. And people will be left with the rag tag reminants of a system which died from a major head on collision with a brick wall .. head trauma, spinal cord injury .. heart failure.

The victum was not wearing a helmet and was driving wrecklessly .. then went off a steep embankment. He tried to correct at the last minute but ended up hitting a brick wall. HE is us.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:18 - ID#30116)
Well that was an interesting close for the day. So where does the Dow bottom out here? 8200? 8000? Lower?

Saudi attempting production cut backs, gold moving up but most of the gold stocks preferred to move in the same direction as the general market. One has to wonder, is the bottom in the making for the gold stocks? Will the next stock rally also be the start of the next PM rally? Curious minds wish to know. Also, there seemed to be some panic driven dumping in the mid size gold stocks today. I can't help but wonder; Is this the towel being thrown in by the diehards? Clearly, the fools ( who me? ) are still holding ( the bag? ) . Time will tell, but we need some REAL FEAR here.

As for crude oil prices, I can honestly say that most 'good citizens' here in the NorthEast are doing their part to pick up the slack in Asian demand for oil. Pedal to the metal! With SUVs ( Sport Utility Vehicles ) to! Such a fine sucking sound they make at the gas pump.....

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:18 - ID#354133)
You guys are makin' me hungry...
Salad - Poke
Main course - Mudbugs, bambi-squirrel-rabbit-cannibal stew with dried red wheat.
And for dessert, peanut butter and honey.


As for metals, interesting day - platinum up, gold up, silver down ( HEY!?! )
And the JapYen stayed up all day ( Viagra from Uncle Sam? )

Hmmm soybeans, huh goldfevr?

BTW, dude,

What's with
the spacing

on most of
your texts ?

Kinda makes



to read.






(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:28 - ID#350179)
Coming to a market near you...
Russia fears invade Europe

..."We are in a bear market and there's no end in sight," said Charterhouse...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:29 - ID#238422)
Dear friend, as I said, I'm serious this time.
It's not about Russian stock market at all, and
even Russian debt is no problem for those who did
not buy it...Hopefully, you would not be in need
of escaping to the other planet...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:31 - ID#93241)
Lan Man 15:53
...It bothers me. It has for along time. I know I harp about it a lot, but the asset forfeiture thing, brought to us by RRR, opened my eyes.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:32 - ID#153102)
@500,000 Drooey @End of Flow
Thanks for the feedback. Given the HK scene, it computes that a HK interest would make such a desperate liquidation.

"Computes" calls to mind This is the Way the Flow Ends, not with a Bang, but a Dribble.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:35 - ID#261322)
Has anyone heard the press release? There was to be one before the end of the day today ( before 5:00 ) . I can't find it in the newswire page yet. I assume it is the result of the court case with the Alpha Group. Thanks

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:37 - ID#28994)
Gianni Dioro 17.12
A trade deficit , being balanced by capital inflows, is a paper fallacy of the harm that is being done to the country. Exchange the word deficit with imbalance.
With a trade imbalance, you have more goods coming into the United States than there are leaving the United States. Presently, there are many freighters unloading their goods at American ports and leaving empty. This is doing the American industries great harm. With the high value of the American dollar, other countries cannot afford American-made goods. Trade deficit is a political term; trade imbalance is reality.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:38 - ID#350179)

Mountain Goat
(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:40 - ID#35087)
@My take on investors in today's market
Work in a computer programming/database analyzing group.
By listening to those around me in this cubicle warren, I hear:

"I'm now $800 down. But it'll come back up next week."
"I heard it was going to come back up... all the fundamentals are still good."
"The economy is still strong..."
"People are shorting my stocks! Makes me so angry!"
"I'm going to get out for a while if it goes back up..."
"Dang, my wife is mad 'cause all my stock picks are losing!"

and so on. Investor confidence is ( to garble a quote from 007 )
"stirred, but not shaken."

As Panda just remarked, there is not enough FEAR, *yet*.

By fall? Sept/Oct/Nov? If the market stays this volatile, then yes, Joe Sixpack and his college-educated brother Ken Winecooler will get out and stay out.
They CAN'T take the heat, and they'll get out of the Kitchen.

All IMHO, of course.


MG ( Go Gold! )

Aragorn III
(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:44 - ID#212323)
oris...believe me, from your tone I can tell that a cauldron of black soup is brewing.
My fortune is such that my only DIRECT financial ties with Russian financial elements is entirely contained in the 1899 10 Ruble coin that I hold...solid gold and immune to the hot winds of the times we face.

What troubles me, though, are my many INDIRECT ties with the financial and social ( mis ) fortunes of Russia...which we ALL share by the very fact that we inhabit this very same Earth. Truly, that which goes around...eventually comes around. We must all crouch for shelter in the face of severe disruptions somewhere upon our garden amongst the stars.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:47 - ID#350179)
Mountain Goat
I concur, the following took place Monday regarding the morning slide -

Me: "It's ( her stock price ) still up from when you bought it, right?"
Sheeple: "Yes..."
Me: "Well, what's wrong with selling at a profit?"
Sheeple: "Well, it's for my retirement, so I don't have to worry about it until then"


Mountain Goat
(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:48 - ID#35087)
@oris & Strider
"Dear friend, as I said, I'm serious this time." - oris
Serious about...? Russia coming apart at the seams?
I'll agree. More than that? Speak up man! What?

"...the OTHER planet..." ( my emphasis added )
What? You guys have been holding out on yer pals here on earth?
Where have you guys been hiding it? C'mon tell us.
You know us Kitcoites, we can keep a secret... By the looks of
the PM markets we've been doing a helluva job of keeping metals quiet!

And what's the Gold content in oz/ton of this 'other' planet...

Just wondering.

MG ( Go Aliens! Go Oris! Go Gold! )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:48 - ID#434108)
Mtn Bear @ 16:55- - black gold: Oil's BULL MARKET is here & now.
Oil is a screaming BUY, dear sir.

"Catching The Next Wave" was an interview article
in Barrons, about a month ago.
Basically, it's conclusion/opinion, is that commodities, physicals, futures,
are the new, dawning bull market.

Basically that article/interview,
confirmed what I first discovered, for myself,
in 1991-92: that is -
the importance of studying/analyzing...
the Commitment of Traders patterns....
esp. the "Commercials'.

I've talked/posted of this, many times before,
here at kitco.

no-one has made as many trading mistakes as I.
( -Come on, now, surely I deserve the 'award'. )

However, the charts, and charting concepts remain
My mistake has been in
being too impatient,
and/or losing faith...
- pulling the seeds out of the ground....
just before the 'miracle'

My opinion still is,
as I've posted here before:
C Oil is bottoming, has bottomed.

"Commmercials", in the Commitment of Traders patterns,
have bought all they want...
even at lower & lower prices ...
over the past several months.

They have gone/been "net-long",
at lower & lower net-long values.....even as
prices have also worked their way lower.

This is the ideal foundation,
for a new bull market, in almost any commodity, index,
and/or futures contract.
Such a pattern means,
as I interpret it, and have experienced it, over and over,
for many years:
that they - the Commercials ( -the Big-Boys ) - ..
have already loaded up - bought - all they want.

If prices keep going lower,
and yet they keep buying less & less...
well then, they must have filled their needs...
they must be adequately positioned & hedged,
for the next advance - the next bull-market cycle.

Once they, the Commercials, are fully invested,
complete, satisfied, .....then...
the only thing left, is for
the "Large-Speculators" component ...
of the COT,
to DRIVE ( -'the drivers' ) the new bull market .... higher.

OIL - is in a new BULL MARKET !
I think the "Next Wave" folks still need refinements;
and among them,, is this -- as discussed above,
and re-iterated here:
when Commercials go to extreme net long values,
or net-short values...
it is best to wait,
until --
( in the case of completing-ending, bear-markets ) :
to see that there are declining values
in the Commercials' net-long positions,
simultaneously as prices
work their way lower to a final bottom...
or untill --
( in the case of completing-ending, bull-markets ) :
to see that there are subsiding values
in the Commercials net-short positions,
simultaneously as prices
work their way higher to a final top.

Recent bullish examples of markets that signalled their
approaching lows, and upside turn - into new,
trade-able, bull markets --
using this Commitment of Traders concept -- include:

Cotton, from 12/97 to 4/98, &
Soymeal, from 3/98 to 6/98...

Again: pay particular attention to the Commercials'
declining net-buys/longs,
...even on, and especially on - and 'essentially' on -
persistently lower prices.

In summary,
this can be reliably interpreted as:
the Commercials ( -the 'big boys' )
having bought all they want...
since they kept reducung their buying,
even at lower & lower prices.

Thus, for the focussed, patient student of market-timing...
the 'Big-Boys' ( -Commercials ) ...
give themselves away -- that is:
they thus, reveal their intentions, and the market's.

Once the 'big-boys are positioned/long...& satisfied,
the market-price will reverse, and go up.

This is one crucial concept that most market-students
of Commitment of Traders analysis, miss;
including apparently, the "The Next Wave" folks,
interviewed in the Barrons of several weeks ago.

The interviewed party in "Catching the Next Wave"...
an outfit out of Chicago, I believe,
does not yet know this pearl of wisdom,
or else, is not willing to share it,
for free,
like I am.

David Blair Macrory

P.S. :: )

Buy the C. Oil,
Buy the Beans,
and after - depending on - tomorrow,
I'll probably be ready to:
buy the metals.

The US dollar, and US Bonds are on ever thinner ice.

Even-so, a last explosive US stock-market rally, is still
in the cards. ..... - 10,000 on the DJIA anyone?

Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:50 - ID#384350)
Skinny, Trade Imbalance you call it is definitely hurting American industry. And it's worse than it appears because it is measured in dollars. These countries ( SE Asia & Japan ) currencies have been ravaged. Thus in terms of units of goods the situation is much worse. American companies get stuck with its labor costs, they can't raise prices due to competition, and the foreign companies get the bulk of the revenue. According to Richebcher, US companies have started decreasing the amount of money spent on revenue producing investment in plant, property, equipment, and inventory. This he says in addition to the massive trade imbalance will lead to a sharp downturn in 3rd & 4th quarter earnings in the US.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:51 - ID#267276)
For what its worth.
I heard today from a reputable source that he heard from a reputable source that the French and Italian central banks are working to get all the central banks to stop LEASEING GOLD. This would be a major boost to gold. Lets hope its true.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 17:54 - ID#30116)
Mountain Goat (on the lighter side)
Afflicted, as I am, with goldbugitis, I am in the terminal stages of this terrible disease. I must confess. When an unhedged gold producer is down about 85% and has lots of cash in the bank........I must buy and buy and buy. Of course, I apportion my purchases for each new sell-off that occurs in the equities market. At some point,[1] I will own the company, [2]be broke and have worthless stock to show for it, or.... [3]finally be right for once and own a stock that goes up! History says [1] and [2]. :- ) )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:01 - ID#93241)
I've been closely watching oil markets as indicator for gold. Although the Saudi's production cuts are encouraging, there's still more crude on the market than can be refined and it might be a few months before that changes. See following site:

There's a lot of links to other sites there that might give you more info about oil right now. I think the industry has anticipated the Saudi cuts for some time....

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:02 - ID#224363)
@Mountain Goat
Your comments re: overhearing conversations about stock picks gave me a good laugh.

I'm saying the same thing for the last year about all the damn PM stocks that I have.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:03 - ID#434108)
panda @ 17:54 - 'history' vs 'the present'
forget 'history'

the present is the point of power

by the way,
do you come from China?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:10 - ID#434108)
strat @ 18:01 - wait on Oil bull ..................... sheeet
You're probably right; I'm always early.
But I can see it now:
break-down in the Middle-East, politically -
Israel vs Iran
Iraq vs US
etc., ad nauseum.

I sense a revolution brewing ....
in 'sacred' Saudi Arabia....
heaven forbid.

Oil will sky-rocket, as will gold;
but perhaps not yet, for another quarter, or 2.

has anybody gotta dime ?!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:10 - ID#220325)
APH Thanks for the updates, we need others like you.
You are our most dependable source for day trades. It is generous of you to share this information with us. Ps your following is increasing for good reason.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:13 - ID#238422)
I believe you, I'm just worried about this situation
for some different reasons.

Got a really uncomfortable feeling first time in 8
years, after learning the depth of the problem...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:13 - ID#220325)
MM Great information on TVX
This was a $15.oo stock Canadian ( 10.00 US ) a short while ago. I think it will fly on a gold change in trend.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:15 - ID#93241)
goldfevr 18:10
Couldn't agree with you more. Saudis & Iran might be looking to knock Iraq offline. No love lost amongst those three. '99 will be interestin'.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:17 - ID#258142)
I think, time is not ripe yet. But it is comming

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:19 - ID#147201)
Grizz re meateaters
About 30 years ago, we used to figure about $1/# if we had to price it. It tasted more like $5/#, but all it cost was .273. Today thatis a little over 2 oz. I don't know what it will be in a couple of years, but I have them trained when necessary.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:20 - ID#388209)
Calling Sharefin, Diz, Bloop, T1, Vronsky, F*, formerly knowm as Farfe,who's pronouncements are won
Wonderful & all true Kitcoites ! Lend me your ears !

Oleman has just officially confirmed the Sign of the BEAR @ Avid.
Hence forth, turn your S&P clock to late 1973 & sell all rallies, if we're lucky enough to get any good ones !
I know I ai'nt exactly the Lone Ranger, but check out the "last stand" I took on my call : Neutron Bomb, APB, SOS ! @ 08/07/98 @ 01:34 ! I , the blind squirl, that I am beat the Maeistro by six 24 hour periods & two lunar eclipses !
There's been a very intense & stimulating brisk debate here @ Kitco as to whether we would get a blow off in Au stocks along with the big bang in the S&P or if Au equities could escape the under tow & go secular counter cyclical in a raging Bull !
I'm proud to say my mouth & my money have been in the minority camp, saying that, except for those Le Miserables holding US Au equities composing part of the S&P, & thus exposed to the Great American Redemption Index Fund Redemtion Tsunami, that Au wuold begin it's bull rise as the S&P burns & therefor those who held to their battlements would be first in the kingdom of the Gold Bull ! Nervana has arrived ! God Bless us every One ! If I am wrong, you can banish me to the land 0f 444, F* & Steve Puetz, at least I'll be in the company of a few good men.

IMHIPO, the answer is in today's market action, light volumn, trend lines smashed, A/D & especially the fact that the S&P has reached all time high 07/20/98, while HI/LOs are at devastating depths. This while the XAU managed to stay positive, even on the day that it must be obvious to even Abbie Joe Cohen that the BEAR is not only out of the den, but, eating her lunch on her call to battle & rally the troops, grazing on a feast of filet of Bull's Rump !

No kidding, this is not a drill !

Tally Ho & God Speed !

Rock Steady All Night Long !



(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:20 - ID#28994)
Gianni Dioro
Excellent response
Did you intercept my posting on that other book.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:33 - ID#153102)
Boris is in the bottle; Natasha's in the bed.
George is at Financial Times,
Greasing up the skids.
Where, Oh, where is Ivan ?

In Merry Olde England April is the cruelest month,
But in Russia it's October.
November, December, January, Febuary, March, & April.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:43 - ID#329186)
lady_bug(Y2K) ID~320202 who cried wolf
Yes there are grave risks BUT unlike all other crises in life this one must not and cannot be "assumed " to be resolved until we are into january 2000

Along with sharefin and others @ kitco the diffuculty we have in trying to alert people is the PERCEPTION of Y2K is for many too much to handle
To the above you must consider that only a small % of the WORLD take the issue seriously and this is very much a global problem. IMHO the chance of a nuclear accident through outdated software has to be a serious possability ( this is not down to politicians pushing The botton ) but built in protection and what would appear to be loss of control over weapons systems.

Please ,Please visit ommiting the usual "en" from golden

I would ask one further question if our politicians are working globally why have they not agreed to delay the EURO a drain on IT resources.

there must have been a lot of folks drowned that laughed at NOAH .....

take care
go gold


Spud Master
(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:43 - ID#28586)
@Goldfever: The problem with the Saudis rebeling is...
they've got an army of occupation squatting in their land -- aka the US armed forces.

Of course ( and we smile when we say it ) , our troops are only there to protect the freedom loving Arabs & their oil...

of course too, we have no doubt encouraged every form of moral rot in the House of Saud in an effort to turn them into dependant eunchs.

Meanwhile, to add a little 'stick' to our carrot cake, we keep that casual mass murder of women & children, Saddam Hussien, and his cronies alive & in power so that Iraq is an ever present threat held over the Saudi's head.

"Oh, so you don't like our troops here? Well, we'll be happy to go home. PS Saddam can be in Riyad in three days"

Worldly diplomacy called by some; loathsome low-born blackmail called by others. Oil isn't worth our integrity, and it sure as hell isn't worth an American soldier's life. Maybe the Coward in Chief and his peace loving desk jocky State Department weenies can go fight in the next Desert Dance?

So, you'd rather have $30 a gallon gasoline, Spud?

Damn, effing right, jerko. America would quickly develop commercially viable solar, fuel cell, geothermal, wind power etc in a damn hurry -- freeing us from fossil fuel dependance that leaves us light some damn dope-head constantly trying to score, mugging countries for oil.


Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:45 - ID#384350)
Yes I saw your post but I didn't know what to make of it nor why the book made you take a disliking to Bronfman.

Gold Dancer
(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:47 - ID#377196)
We need two more up days in gold
to confirm a good move to the upside. I hope we get it. Looks good.

Harmony traded 1100 shares today. Like I say this is strange for
a stock that has 70 million shares out isn't it? Either there are
a lot of sellers in the wings that can't get their trades off or
there are no sellers and no buyers. But this is an anommaly and
really sticks out. Day after day of no volume. Something is up
at Harmony.

Both RANGY and DROOY closed up and HGMCY closed down 1/32.

Maybe the specialist is trying to dig up stock to try and fill a big
buy order. We will just have to wait and see I guess.

Thanks, GD

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:50 - ID#153102)
It's ok to be a glutton for oil, since there is a glut of it as far into the future as the eye can see. Baku.

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:50 - ID#295111)

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:51 - ID#234427)
Panda, whither the bottom???
These educated guesses are based on the demographics of the associated countries.

Our Dow will bottom at 7300. You heard it here first. This will occur prior to the November elections. You will probably see one more run up to around 9000 before it reverses course and gets to 7300.

The DOW's final slide back to 7300 will be precipitated by the fall of Japan. Everybody ( all nations ) will have a short sharp correction as a result of Japans demise. Japan will not recover for 5+ years. Watch for Japan to fall off the face of the earth at 14200 on the Nikkei.

I did not think the Hang Seng would fall below 7000 prior to Japans collapse but it has. I personally think this is a discount in advance of the devaluation of the Yuan, the most likely trigger to finally topple Japan. I will dive back into the Hang Seng after Japan goes away. I am in cash and gold only now.

Markets are driven by the volume and velocity of money. That is not going to majically stop just because Japan tanks. The demographics of the US show that the third and final wave of spending baby boomers is just getting started. This correction is a result of the end of the last wave meeting the beginning of the next wave. US Dollars will not be repatriated to the US, they will be used to reflate the coffers, in the form of loans, of all of the sound Asian countries ( some of the more corrupt regimes will be left out ) except Japan. And the demographics of those countries say they will put it to excellent and productive use.

I am in gold and accumulating because of the effect Y2K will have on the volume and velocity of money in all markets. If only 10% of the businesses in the US collapse the effect will be monumental. Because of the effect Y2k will have on the continuity of government and what that will do to US Treasuries, their interest rates, their bid to cover ratio.
And because after a couple of bank runs, and the imposition of government controls very few people will know what is certain except somthing they can hold in their hand, like gold.

In any event its always fun to speculate and I consider the like minded souls on this newsgroup a great bunch to contemplate the future of gold with.


The Hermit
(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:52 - ID#369247)
@ Allen(USA) - your 17:14
"None of these technical marvels can be operated by hand anymore ... there are no manual controls ..." This comment speaks volumes. We are doomed by the modern division of labor and by the silent reality that massive amounts of labor have now been taken over by the computer. Very few of us know how to truly take care of ourselves.

"HE is us", indeed. Thank you for staying on the watch and for your constant reminders, you and your writings are appreciated!

The Hermit

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:52 - ID#342376)
@ newtron
Great news! Where is Oldman's post? Can you post a link? I didn't see it here. I wonder if you can tell the beggining of a bear market not only from the price of a seat on the NYSE but from Abbey Joseph Cohen's salary. Isn't Goldman Sach's having an IPO soon? With her at the helm, they're not off to a good start. I heard a good joke. It's only applicable after the crash though. What's the difference between a pigeon and an investment banker? The pigeon can still put a deposit down on a BMW.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:53 - ID#288186)
GOLD had a 2 dollar up day. Per the poster gogold, if tomorrow is another
2 dollar up day, we have our GOLD BULL STARTING...then it's, I think
325 by 11-11. Actually that will be minimum IMHO. I think gold will
be higher than 325 and sooner. I have no facts, just gut feelings.
Things are becoming more clearer to the common folk. Their flocking
to gold is on the horizon. Also, the dollar is coming down soon.
Again, all IMHO.
BTW, no changes in the Comex Metal Warehouse totals...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 18:59 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 29.63. The 144 day moving average is 29.55. Spot prices of $285.50 and $5.19 obtained from Monex were used for all calculations tonight.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:00 - ID#233199)
Rangy and Drooy volume ...
..are anemic - to say the least.


(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:03 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .213. The 144 day moving average is .253. There have been 12 occasions where the XAU closed in the 60.XX eange. Ranked according to the gold price, today is #10. The #1 remains the same as previous posts.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:04 - ID#26793)
Gold/Silver Ratio = 55.01. The 144 day moving average is 50.83

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:06 - ID#253246)
How low can that Silver Standard go****************************
Who would have thought at the end of February of this year that
Silver Standard would be trading at $1.12 in 6 short months Certainly not Dines or Jimmy Blanchard . This was one of their babies where they
knew the management, had all the inside information. Take that
money you spend on any of these gold newsletters and buy power
ball tickets, better odds.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:06 - ID#266105)
Nick Goodwin on JSE golds

Interview with NICK GOODWIN - 13 August, 1998

AH: We change direction completely now and welcome our gold guru, Nick Goodwin. Nick, going back to the
6th of July when you'd called the market absolutely brilliantly. The gold shares had gone up 41%, you talked
about an upside in the Gold Index at 1300, but it's gone the other way. What's happened?

NICK GOODWIN: I didn't actually get a sell signal at that stage, whereas for instance on 12 May, when the
index was 1062, I did get a sell signal there, which I indicated to the listeners. The market should have gone
high. It should have gone to about 1200 or 1250, and unless I actually get a sell signal on my system, I don't
call a sell, because what can happen, it can turn around very quickly, and go much higher. And this is what I've
spoken about in the past, that you have to sweat with the market. Unfortunately the gold market is very much
more volatile than other markets, but I must say that had you been in the gold market this year, you would have
been better off than in any of the other indices. The only other index that actually has beaten the gold industry is
the Electronics Index.

AH: So right now Nick, those people who actually went out, and are sitting on gold shares, who sold at the time
that you told us all to sell, and then bought at the time that you told us to buy, and had a good 41% run, didn't
sell and actually held on. What do they do with their stock?

NICK GOODWIN: Well, they must just stay with their shares. Again, the index is very cheap and in fact they
should actually be increasing their holdings in various shares, which we can speak about just now, because
down the road we're still going to see much better performance out of gold shares than we will see in the
industrial market.

AH: Let's talk about those stocks that they should be increasing their holdings in.

NICK GOODWIN: Well, I think that the current portfolio that I would recommend would be the following:
Anglogold, 30% of your portfolio; Goldfields, 30%; Randfontein 10%; Avgold 10%; Durban Deep 10%. And in
fact, in the case of Durban Deep, you should buy Crown, because Crown is going to be converted to Durban
Deep, and Crown are trading at a discount to Durban Deep, so you should rather do your Durban Deep
holdings through Crown. And the last share is Harmony, also 10%. Now, so many shares have come off quite
substantially, and there are really some bargains. If we look at some shares outside of that, Western Areas is
extremely cheap. I don't understand why that share has fallen so much, it's basically an exceptional mine
which is going to come into production around about the year 2000. Then there's also JCI Gold, which is a
holding company of Western Areas, and Randfontein is also exceptionally cheap. Those are shares that you
can get into too.

AH: To wrap up, the gold price itself has fallen about $10 since we last spoke, down to $283 an ounce. Any
hope on that one?

NICK GOODWIN: What's interesting is it's actually trading at 285 now, looks like there's been a turnaround
there. I think I've said in the past that if gold goes below 280, 60% of the world's mines will be running at a loss,
which I think is an unsustainable situation. And also, if we look at what's happening in the Far East now, with
the way that the debt situation is escalating, and currencies are going under pressure, it won't be too long now
before the world discovers that gold is the ultimate asset. You could find that people start moving into hard

AH: $285.10 and that's the word from our gold guru, Nick Goodwin. He says, hang in there.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:07 - ID#401460)

Thursday August 13, 5:44 pm Eastern Time

Crude Oil Futures Rise Sharply.

Crude for September delivery rose 50 cents to $13.21 a barrel; September heating oil rose 1.09 cents to 35.22 cents a gallon; September unleaded gasoline rose 1.58 cents to 42.25 cents a gallon; September natural gas fell 2 cents to $1.817 for each 1,000 cubic feet.


(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:07 - ID#190411)
You said something about the emperor of the US going to Russia.
Is that true?
With all of the chaos and flux in Russia, I think that would be dangerous. ( See oris posts ) .
What would happen if Clinton was kidnapped by the Russian mafia?
How much would we pay to get our maximum leader back? a.j., newtron, tolerant1, anyone care to open the bidding?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:07 - ID#26793)
The numbers below are all 144 day moving averages.
Spot gold $296.82; spot silver $5.88; XAU 75.09

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:10 - ID#57232)
Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia -- looking through the murky mists, darkly
Spudmaster: It is very clear that US influence is fading in Saudi Arabia, and our current ineffective administration is accelerating the process. I'm sure Madeline Albright is real popular with the Saudis. This is one situation where I miss Henry Kissenger and Richard Nixon - despite his other faults RN was a master at foreign affairs. After old King Saud dies, the heir apparent will take over completely, and I know he is not at all pro - US. Probably what will happen is that we will have a rash of terrorist attacks on US sites within Saudi Arabia, and the Saudis will be strangely ineffective at tracking down the perpetrators. Iran will probably rattle their sabres a bit, and offer to protect the Saudis from Iraq so that they no longer need US presence. The Iranis have some extra leverage with Saudi Arabia, since they have connections with the underground opposition.
WJC will also probably try to punish Saddam for something in the next twelve months, but the Arab countries will not allow the US to launch their attck from Arab soil. Russia and China will object, and will continue their attempts to carve up aliances with countries in the area -- while our administration twiddles its thumbs and gets tied down with supporting Israel. Even worse I would guess that this administration continue to try to please both the Arabs and Israelis, ending up pleaseing no one. Finally, it is possible that the current Arab block may wish to attack Israel one more time for the 'benefit' of the younger Arab generation -- probably sometime near y2k. And they will probably lose, just as they have on the other occasions.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:11 - ID#28994)
Gianni Dioro
I really cannot answer that one, I have reviewed the book and I can find nothing to make me think that way. I reserve the right to change my mind.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:11 - ID#266105)
@Gold Dancer

Maybe the bigger institutions and money managers do
their trading on the JSE to avoid the extortionary spreads
of thinly traded adrs like Harmony.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:12 - ID#26793)
The numbers below are all 233 day moving averages.
Spot gold $300.83; spot silver $5.64; XAU 78.75, Dow/Gold Ratio 28.04

Steve in TO__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:18 - ID#209265)
Y2k paranoia available in the . . .
latest issue of Wired. They have an article about how some Y2k programmers have started preparing for disaster. Have a look, guys ( & gals : )


Bill Buckler
(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:18 - ID#256381)
Ups and Downs
Gold up - Bond yields up - Dow Down - Dollar Down. Now that's what I call a "conventional" day on the markets. First one I've seen for quite a while.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:20 - ID#288295)

The question is not how much we would pay to get him back, but rather how much would we pay them to keep him?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:22 - ID#26793)
Fed activity on bank reserves and money supply.
Earlier today I posted a string of links back to August 5th showing unusual activity by the Fed to feed reserves to the banking system. We will probably never get the details but here are some possible reasons; a few are restated from earlier posts.

1. Funding for the PPT
2. A large bank or two in trouble
3. Active currency intervention in support of the yen
4. Replacement of dollars being sucked up by residents of Russia et al
5. The IMF drew down its reserves to support Russia possibly putting the U.S. bank or banks where the deposits were held in jeopardy.
6. As per an earlier post, Argentina may have repatriated reserves adding to the reserve problem.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:39 - ID#402148)
If your see 325 gold August-September, initiated in USA,, you will wake up to a $75 limit up the next morning , as the EURO banks soil their boxers.


(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:41 - ID#190411)
I'd trade:

84 Senators
376 congressmen
16,545 trial lawyers
7 Supremes
the Cabinet
and 2,000,000 rolls of toilet paper.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:43 - ID#288295)
COMEX stocks

Unchanged today.....

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:43 - ID#153102)
@ERLE The only mafia I know of that takes credit are the mafia in the 50
State of's. As in State of Colorado ( not constitutional state Colorado ) .

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:43 - ID#295111)

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:44 - ID#252150)
John B.@Kaplan. I never followed him when POG was briefly over 400, but I
started to check his web page shortly after it broke back under 400
& there is no doubt in my mind that he was bullish right down to around 320 ( where I stopped reading him ) & has probably never wavered.

I would'nt count on the JY strengthening any time soon. There is a slight chance that RR may attempt another intervention if the Japanese can come up with some real positive measures that will be warmly greeted by the mkt in their early Sept. meeting, & they can inflict maximum damage on the bears for a minimal cost. Otherwise, 150, 160, 170, who knows how low it can go?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:46 - ID#388209)
Donald & Crazy :
Donald, you are nothing short of our brillint Crown Jewels !

Crazytime : Go to Avid @ You will have to register, but its not only free, it's priceless !
Go to the bottom of the chat & plug in say 200 1nto the box & it will set you up to scroll the days action. Most stimulating !
You'll find Oleman's call at about04:30 central time .

God Speed & Good Hunting !
Tally Ho !



(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:46 - ID#227238)
Panda: Per yer comments on the close: It's indeed interesting on 5 min bars. They drove the tick from -600 to +400 over the last hour and yet the SP still closed down decisively. It was am interesting divergence. ..... The business becomes curiouser and curiouser. We shall watch this thing together. Yes?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:46 - ID#288295)

...and a partridge in a pear tree.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:46 - ID#93241)
The Saudis would have a lot of trouble domestically with another influx of foreign soldiers into their country like 1990-91, just as we in America would. There is in Islam ( their religion ) prophecies about the Franks, as they refer to westerners, attacking Mecca in the last days. My guess is that when there's another war in the Gulf, it will start without the Americans, and that when and if we go in, given WJC's talent for foreign policy, we might very well end up fighting both sides.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:49 - ID#26793)
Russian CB says it is using Forex and gold reserves to buy rubles on open market.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:52 - ID#238422)
If Clinton is kidnapped by Russian Mafia, Delta Force
will save him. I've seen that in the movies. Chuck Norris
will kick the butt all right...I also know for sure that
Blooper got his F-16 handy just in case and airstrip is
clean for take off...Do danger for the U.S. in any way.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:54 - ID#238422)
ERLE, sorry, I mean "No danger", not "Do Danger".

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:55 - ID#288295)
Yen-Gold Breakout

The Yen-gold arrangement was apparently broken today, closing decisively above 42000 in a sharp up move. Is the linkage now broken? What say you, Mr. Disney?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:55 - ID#93241)
A nice gal walks into this roughhouse joint, I'm sorry, I'm gonna sweettalk her ( I'm old-fashioned ) . As for the morning after, I'll just do what I always do...get up early and leave. Maybe I'm just lonely, but don't worry, you ain't looking all that good...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:56 - ID#253246)
Any thoughts abpout Barrick aquiring TVX

Barrick recently passed on spending $202 million for about 3 million
oz of reserves in peru. ( $67 per OZ ) . I believe the y paid about
$50 per oz of reserves when they bought Arequippa in 1996. $50/oz
of reserves seemed high at the time and I remember where John
Doody wrote in Barons that he sold his ABX because he thought the
price was too much.

With TVX's market cap at $302 million ( 162million shares x $1.87 )
and if the reserves for the greek projects come in at 7 million oz
plus their existing 4.5 million oz that would make the cost of TVX's
reserves at less than $30 per ounce ( 302/11.5 ) . Now if my figures
are correct, is $30 per ounce of reserves a buy at todays gold
price or is thjs the wrong the way I calculated this.

It seems to me that Greece would be slight more stable than buying
in Russia, However George Bush was recently in Russia and maybe
$30 / per oz is still too much to pay .

any thoughts

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:56 - ID#424394)
Chas - are we talking about the same thing?
Worth its weight in Gold - carrots and calibers and all that?
What do you have trained? If they are what I think they are we definitely may be in the grub. Nobody else has it figured or I would have been flamed by now - especially for the last url in that post.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:58 - ID#388209)
Crazytimes, That was a kewl one about the pidgeon an the Wall Street Instant Banker !
Don't forget your 2nd Amendment Constitutional Right, eminating from the pnumbra of your inallianable & God Given right to ARM BEARS !



Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 19:58 - ID#384350)
Erle, King Klinton
Klinton must be having a hard time seeing his mistresses in the States, so a quick jaunt to Russia Sep 1 & 2 where "El Schmucko" isn't readily known. Also remember that Klinton was in Russia during his college days so he's used to it.

Afterwards Klinton goes to Ireland for a few days so he can play golf. He'll be staying at the Adare Manor in County Limerick. Rooms start at around $400 per night. There is a golf course, heli-pad, and other amenities. Klinton will also golf at Ballybunion on the 5th.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:00 - ID#252150)
St. Jude@I sold it at around 5.00. They definitely have a viable au property & it's
probably a good speculation @ 1.25. The last time they reported results it shot up over 2.00 in 2 days, but the shorts piled in right away & sold it back down within a couple weeks. The next drilling results will probably cause another sharp rise ( but not as high ) & the nimble trader could make a quick 50-100%. I may even try my luck with it.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:01 - ID#238422)
Unfortunately, it is coming. I have no idea how many
shots are going to be fired, but it's going to be ugly.
Do you think 15 or 20 billion from IMF will last for month
or may be even less than that?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:02 - ID#26793)
Argentina pension plan funds down 23% since July as stocks slide.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:04 - ID#424394)
Mozel - your berating others for playing the same game that you do
Is getting old. Bet you used folding green stuff or the digitial equivalent to buy the computer you are using and your Gold too.
We are ready - you are just so much wind whistling through the trees.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:05 - ID#153102)
@Straighten Me Out
Reputable source I can't remember put into my head that only 38% of American households have a stock portfolio. And that a mere 3% control about 80% of stock.

Oil: coming on line: Baku, Baku, Baku.
Reserves equal to Saudi Arabia ( as published ) .

Europe-Asia. Now Eurasia. Land Bridge closed by Soviet Era Re-opened. Orient Express. Centuries Old trade routes Re-opened.

Yesterday Is Gone.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:06 - ID#288295)
Donald @ 19:49

Methinks it is no coincidence that Russia is selling gold for roubles and Poland just announced a big gold purchase. Any future Russian gold and silver sales will never hit the open market. No chance.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:08 - ID#288295)

My understanding is that the IMF money will go to Russia in 3 tranches....the last one will be in late September.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:08 - ID#411259)
..... James .....

You wrote:
"As long as they don't try to drive us insane with loud, horrible music from huge speakers, like they did to those poor people in Waco. Only a truly twisted mind could conceive of something that terrible."

I write:
I guess mine own mind is twisted beyond compare. Although trained as an interrogator, my mission to Beirut in 1983 was in conjunction with Psychological Operations ( Psyop ) . It is these fine fellows that come up with the playlist, own the speakers, and play it all too loud. The Waco gig was strictly amateur. They played country western music In Texas? They love that stuff. Were I in charge of Waco, I think the Dead Kennedys would have been a more effective tactic. Like the loud rock they blasted at Noriega when Bush went into Panama. I think a collection of Ethel Merman singing to Liberaces fine accompaniments would have cracked that nut sooner.

Psyop is more that just screwing with peoples brains, though. I used to explain it to generals as a "force multiplier" that really perked up their ears. We did bogus publications attributed to others ( black propaganda ) and we did cozy, comfy stuff to make them like us. They hated us anyway. We were Americans and we had no business in Beirut.

I agreed with them then

And I agree today

We were where we shouldnt ought to have been.

Indeedy O

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:09 - ID#219363)
Aussie down, New z. up, Nikkei headed straight down, should level out soon enough I reckon.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:10 - ID#388209)
Strat, your right, I'm butt ugly, but I know what a woman finds attractive in a man !
and on a cyber zoom, I'm going to give it my best shot !
Don't you think woman find confidece sexy in a mature man ?
IMy stomach just turs when I see a grown man make a rookie mistake like that. After all, we're all here to try to improve ourselves & I consider matreial wealth in GOLD a distant 5th to good sexual heallth !
If you suck up on the first pass you'll never latch on to a live one !

All, ofcourse IMHIPO !
I'm only tryig to help !

Rock Steady & Love On YA, BOWIE !



(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:10 - ID#26793)
Russian economist agrees with Soros; devaluation of the ruble is the only way out

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:11 - ID#248180)
Oris - Cheer up we have Blondinka ready for action!!
In a about 6 hours I will be ready to solve the worlds problems, Russia's will take a few days of serious drinking to resolve. What darkness troubles you Brother? What Novist? I was planning to spend some more time at the mine sites in Siberia this coming winter, should I stay in warm and sunny Australia? I could stay home and race my camel at Alice Springs.

Russian Ministers respond to Soros:

I will be off for a while, JR.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:13 - ID#30116)
Not from China, but I am deep behind enemy Liberal lines in the Northeast........ Otherwise known as ROR country and often associated with the Kennedy Dynasty.... :~ (

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:13 - ID#427357)

Wall Street analyst Wayne Crimi shares his considered opinion with us
about the stocks. He presents his Market View for August.

He poignantly points out "Greed and fear are powerful emotions. The rosy
shaded glasses of today's investors won't be easy to shake off. On the plus side, there are some secondary issues that are starting to look a little more attractive. The broader market has taken a significant beating compared to the major indices."

As any scholarly person he teaches as he forecasts. Crimi generously shows us the meaning of "What is Value Investing?" It is a valuable short-course for us all. His analytical method emulates the bible of ALL ANALYSTS, "SECURITY ANALYSIS" by Graham and Dodd - originally written in 1934.

In any highly-accredited university, his teaching would be a class-course named "Securities Analysis 501."

Crimi's insightful Securities Analysis lecture at following URL - it will be necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before pasting the URL to your Internet locator:

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:16 - ID#219363)
The bear on that page looks cool. *grin*

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:16 - ID#153102)
@For the record, Grizz
I ain't got no gold. Ain't got no paper for State of neither.
Some steel & lead.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:17 - ID#401460)
Big Day Tomorrow!


(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:17 - ID#93241)
Thank you for the advice. And forgive me, I never meant to infer that you are "butt-ugly"...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:17 - ID#288295)
NY Times Set to Break Lewinsky World Exclusive


(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:17 - ID#30116)

I can't decide if I want to buy SPYDERS/DIAMONDS in the A.M. / sell in the P.M. and then short SPYDERS/DIAMONDS in the early P.M. and buy to cover on the close or buy gold stocks on the close and sell before noon? Come to think of it, I should just take the money and go away for a very long vacation. Me thinks it would be much cheaper and a lot more fun............ Nah, goldbugs are, by definition, masochists.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:18 - ID#189268)

In fact John Doody was corrrect in saying they paid too much for Pierina at least in terms of todays Gold price. Barrick in fact paid a billion dollars to aquire Arequipa ( including my shares : ) @$30 a share. They estimate that mine costs will be around $260 million. Reserve estimates are 8 million gold oz equivalents with the silver credits. Therefore Pierina cost them $157 an ounce. That was the going rate 2 years ago to do an aquisition. With respect to purchasing TVX, I heard a CIBC M&A specialist discuss the mining and oil industry, basically his conclusion is that you are not seeing a rush in M&A activity in the gold industry because the aquirees do not see a quick turn around in the price of gold. He said that they would look foolish if it took them 12-18 months to recover their costs. So we should be loooking at this avenue as a clue for a turnaround in POG.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:18 - ID#411259)
..... Mozel .....

Yea verily go forth
And get thee some gold


(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:18 - ID#347457)
Is this a flight to quality? :-o
Venezuela issuing bonds denominated in Euro.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:19 - ID#347457)
Hmm, I wonder what this means
Is this a flight to quality? :-o
Venezuela issuing bonds denominated in Euro.

For whatever reason it does not let me post the link, It is in Yahoo business news

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:19 - ID#288295)

Quickdraw. Gotcha.

Steve in TO__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:19 - ID#209265)
LadyBug - Don't let the hornet's nest you stirred up . . .
with your Y2k posts get you down.

I agree with you! Thank you for your messages. Reify & his wife & I were discussing this theme at the Toronto Kitco get-together. As I said to him- the Canadian & New England experience with the ice storm convinced me that we live in a part of the world where people pull together and help each other survive calamity.

It's the same out on the Prairies, from the Dakotas north to the Canadian shield. In the days before highways and automobiles, travelling in winter was a very dangerous proposition ( it's just somewhat dangerous nowadays. ) Being caught in a sleigh or wagon in a sudden whiteout could mean death within hours, and there was an unwritten understanding that anyone travelling who was caught by a storm could go to the nearest house and would be taken in. No one ever refused. I remember talking to an old timer who said she once had 13 people in her house during a blizzard in the 30's.

Now if I lived in Israel, surrounded by some very unstable neighbouring states, or in Los Angeles, where the veneer of civilization is very thin, I would be worried a whole lot more about Y2k. I guess in a way you are right, but the Y2k doomsayers are also right- the importance of Y2k will depend greatly on where you live.

Heh, heh - git yer flamethrowers out all you Y2k lovers . . .

- Steve

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:20 - ID#342376)
@ newtron
Thanks for the link. I assume that Oleman over there is Oldman here? He said some real interesting things, like thinking the market was going to hold out until Goldman Sach's went public so their Executives could make millions more, meanwhile they shorted the stock! Is that why Abbey Cohen is still bullish? A trick? Something is rotten in Denmark.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:24 - ID#30116)
Thanks for your input.

I think I have to find one of those 'psychic surgeons' to divine the internal guts of this market. Perhaps they can extract some disgusting lump of something and proclaim the gold market healed. Then again, the Dow probably has the audacity to target... 11,000? And gold, I shudder to think, unless it to moves up with the Dow & Co. for a final 'hurah'.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:24 - ID#401460)

Got Me!

We may know more about this stoey later tonight. Keep a look out.


(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:25 - ID#427357)

Nikkei down already 140 points... and the night is still very young!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:27 - ID#388209)
Strat & another thing I left out of my last RANT !
You are truly a sad & pathetic creature if you cut & run before the morning encores & reviews !
Man, that's when the real action just gets started !

Prey for whirled peas !



(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:29 - ID#411259)
..... What's butt-ugly got to do with it? .....

Strat -

I tend to agree with newtron regarding confidence in attracting the opposite sex. The problem with this approach, is that the women it attracts, are not necessarily the ones you would want to keep. Act like a ass, and the women will flock to you. Be yourself and the right ONE will seek you out. Tis but a question of quality over quantity. Seems the happiest people I have met, all lay claim to quality, and some of the loneliest people I have met, are always with a different chick.

Butt ugly has nothing to do with it. Given enough time, we will all be wrinkled and shrunken. The most beautiful woman in the world, is that one you could imagine still loving when gravity takes its inevitable toll.

One method gets you lots-o-shallow nookie, Being yourself, will lead to happiness. Maybe not today, but all your tomorrows hold promise when honesty guides your compass.

This is none of my business, and I am not trying to be personal, but I see the jerks with the gaggle of wenches hanging on, and I will put $100 on the nose that this is the less happy fellow.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:30 - ID#388209)
Crazy, that's a big 10/4 & you can take it to the Bank !

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:30 - ID#43349)

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:32 - ID#93241)
Do you have any thoughts on how 401k's and similar instruments would soften a bear market or a crash in stocks? Most analysts seem to agree that the last year of the bull market has riden on just such small investors and many of them being rather naive, might very well continue to "subsidize" the market with payroll deductions. Thanks...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:32 - ID#434108)
Kosovo, Albania, and the Moslem world, continue to 'heat-up' .
OTTAWA, Aug. 13 ( UPI S ) _ Canada says ( Thursday ) its aircraft will
participate in a NATO military exercise in Albania next week. The
exercise comes after a recent escalation in fighting between Serbian
forces and ethnic Albanian rebels in the province of Kosovo, which
borders Albania.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:34 - ID#219363)
-180, do I hear -190 ... 190! do I hear -200 ? -200, sold!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:34 - ID#93241)
Thanks, but I'm waiting for Dear Abby to weigh in on this matter now.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:37 - ID#316193)
The Polish Zloty - One of the Strongest Currencies in the World (Bless MY Polish Cousins)

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:38 - ID#295111)
EMU Gold Sales/Leasing Guidelines

Rumor has it that the ECB is very close in finalizing the guidelines on foreign currency control and gold sales remaining in National Central Banks. They are pushing the guidelines to be released in the fall.

I hear that revisions to a gold policy doucment are being made now!

These rules are more important that the 15% gold backing announced this summer!!!!

These guidelines will formulate the "coordination" of European gold policy with respect to the lending of gold held in national reserves, NOT JUST SALES OF GOLD.

Right now, each central bank has had its own policy on whether to enter the lending market, which we at Kitco know have played a major role in fixing the POG.

ALAS, the practice of lending gold will soon be restricted somewhat, but not totally.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:39 - ID#434108)
another 'stake' (-Mexico) in the unraveling, collapsing 'tent' of the global economy

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:40 - ID#37292)
Futures board on site shows SI U8....
at 5190 -- a/o 8:27 verdad?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:41 - ID#401460)
Nikkei 225

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:44 - ID#37292)
Now Kitco has picked it up at 5.20

Mountain Goat
(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:44 - ID#35087)
@Steve_In_TO & Mozel
You are quite right, I believe... rural, and especially
places FAR away from the big ugly US cities will fare ok.
People still help and rely on each other out there.
( As an aside, if Y2K gets rougher than I can stand, I'll be out
there not 100 miles ( 160Km ) from you in Pennsylvania on a farm. Already set. Or, if that can't be done, up in the mountains here. )
Living in the city gives you a different perspective on just how thin
the veneer of civilization is. Life is cheap here. I despise it. ( City life )

Your posts are brilliant. Truly. But no Dollars?
You remind me of the Bible character John the Baptist.
Out crying in the wilderness eating locusts and wild honey.
That'd be about all you could afford without a few FRNs to spend.
Or whatever specie your realm uses for currency.
Or have you found a realm that still uses Gold & Silver? If so, where??
Anyway, at least the wild honey sounds ok.
Locusts are for the cat to eat, when she's done tormenting them.


MG ( Go Gold! )

Mountain Goat
(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:44 - ID#35087)
@Steve_In_TO & Mozel
You are quite right, I believe... rural, and especially
places FAR away from the big ugly US cities will fare ok.
People still help and rely on each other out there.
( As an aside, if Y2K gets rougher than I can stand, I'll be out
there not 100 miles ( 160Km ) from you in Pennsylvania on a farm. Already set. Or, if that can't be done, up in the mountains here. )
Living in the city gives you a different perspective on just how thin
the veneer of civilization is. Life is cheap here. I despise it. ( City life )

Your posts are brilliant. Truly. But no Dollars?
You remind me of the Bible character John the Baptist.
Out crying in the wilderness eating locusts and wild honey.
That'd be about all you could afford without a few FRNs to spend.
Or whatever specie your realm uses for currency.
Or have you found a realm that still uses Gold & Silver? If so, where??
Anyway, at least the wild honey sounds ok.
Locusts are for the cat to eat, when she's done tormenting them.


MG ( Go Gold! )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:46 - ID#93241)
RJ, newtron
I'm trying to be serious ( vronsky question ) and you guys got me laughing so hard, I'm cryin'...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:51 - ID#335184)
Crazy, And ANOTHER thingy I left out of my last RANT!
That's a big 10/4 !
Ofcourse, that's the way they've always trimmed the sheep on The Street !

A LA, Joe Kennedy !



(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:54 - ID#394240)
Hang Seng now has a valid arithmetic target of 1,000!!! Nikkei has an arithmetic target of 12,500!! India, Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand--ALL HAVE DOOMSDAY ARITHMETIC CHARTS THAT POINT TO MUCH LOWER PRICES BY Q1 1999!!! If history is any guide, these markets will not recover for at least 4 years ONCE THEY HAVE BOTTOMED!!!
These charts are even more bearish than the US stock chart during the Great Depression!! Perhaps this is the price all free markets ( or relatively free markets ) must pay once every couple generations!! If these doomsday scenarios pan out, I have no doubt that China, HK, Russia Latin America, and all the Asian Tigers will DEVALUE their currencies in a competitive devaluation death spiral that will sink every nation and currency on earth, including OUR OWN!! If you want to have nightmares, go see the evidence over at BARTON'S ASIA CHARTS!! IT WILL DEPRESS AND TERRIFY YOU!!! Bottom line is SELL PAPER NOW WHILE YOU CAN AND BUY GOLD!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:54 - ID#401460)
More on the shell game.

Top Mexican lawmakers and government officials met on Thursday in a bid to agree on how to usher a controversial $65 billion bank bailout bill through an upcoming legislative session already expected to produce fireworks.

US to Mex.
US to IMF to Mex to US

Mex. still owes IMF, which is US money.

This is the USAs money, lost in the Ruben shell game. They still havent paid it back.


Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:55 - ID#295111)
ECB Gold Control

It makes sense for ECB head Duissberg to RESTRICT as much gold sales and leasing as possible cause failure to do so will undermine the 15% gold reserves held by the ECB.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 20:58 - ID#394240)

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:02 - ID#295111)
15% Gold Backing
Note that the 15% gold backing by the ECB creates a "GOLD STANDARD". I'd like to see 100% backing.

But nevertheless, every EURO will be assoiciated with gold, the other 85% of it will be associated with foreign currency reserves.

If the ECB wants to print more money....IT MUST BUY MORE GOLD UNLESS GOLD INCREASES IN VALUE!!!!!!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:03 - ID#290232)
Y2K from the front lines
Report from the trenches... I am a COBOL programmer. 3 years ago I left a job making 38K a year for one making 50K, 2 years ago I asked
for 10K raise and got it, last year I asked for a 20K raise and got it,
getting ready to move across town for 25K more. In otherwords, in
3 years my salary has gone from 38K to 105K. My wife ( who is also a COBOL programmer ) was making 32K about 3 years is now making
60K and just got offered 97K. This figures are SALARY with full benefits PLUS we get paid for any overtime. How long did I have to look to find
a 25K raise? 2 days, hired over the phone, no interview required.
Where might you ask do you find deals like this? The Southeast! You know what kinda home you can buy with 250K in the South East? Let's just say that it's equivalent to about 1.5 million in LA money.

So what does the average COBOL programmer these days think about Y2K? Not much more than Joe Six pack putting down shingles. Seriously. Most programmers could care less. You probably think I'm
doing Y2K work? Wrong. The shop I'm at now has over 800 programmers. The Y2K staff consists of about 30 old men and a handful
of USC grads ( University of Calcutta ) .

That's right. The vast majority of COBOL programmers are busy rewriting 30 year old systems that were neglicted during the 80's and early 90's as
companies downsized and outsourced. After all, mainframes we all soon
destined to be replaced by networked PC's, right? Think again people,
distributed data is DEAD! Big iron rules as the corporate data depository.
IBM's sells more mainframes today than they did 10 years ago!

So for all of you out there who think that COBOL programmers will be
begging on the street corners after Y2K, I don't think so. About the only
impact will be that the old timers go back into retirement.

Now, what do I think about Y2K? I think it's going to be a disaster. The problems in the private sector will mostly be fixed in time. This disaster
will be:

1. Federal and State Governments
2. Utilities

Why? Let's put it like this. Federal and State governments have
been off the low end scale when it comes to their pay rates for programmers for the last 15 years and they still are. Hell, a good COBOL programmer in the private sector can now make more than the Governor of many states! You want to know what kind of programmers work for the government? ( yes, i'm sure there are exceptions ) . In general, the are
either the DREGS that no one else will hire or they are affirmative action
coders! And these are the people that are going to fix code written by programmers who left government for the private sector 20 years ago?
Give me a break! This crowd will screw up more code than they fix!

Utilities are about as bad. No competition has meant they could get by
with programmers not much better than those who work for the Federal
and State Governments.

Start stocking up on blankets, bullets, and food NOW! When the lights
go out and the checks don't show up at the housing projects, you are going to need all three!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:04 - ID#238422)
Thank God you are here, brother Junior. I agree,
lets drink. Unfortunately, Mr.K is not sincere.
It used to be Soviet propaganda, now it's Russian
propaganda. They are in deepest trouble in financial,
agricultural and particularlu industrial fields. Potent
industry is not there any more, it's all imported goods,
as you know. Everybody is trading IMPORTED goods. No
industry, no wages, no tax collection - no money to
pay debt obligations of the state. I've been watching
Marshall Goldman ( ? ) on CNN tonight, he said "I do not
know how they gonna get out of this hole". I agree, there
is no way under the present management, which is spoiled
to the extreme and economically stupid. So, this management
should go, and it does not want to go. Today all Russian
population is seek and tired of this mess. So, it seems there
gonna be some appllication of the force in the near time.
Should you still go to Siberia now? Lets drink then we'll see...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:05 - ID#394240)

Tantalus Rex
(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:07 - ID#295111)
Signing off to drink a few pints ... CIAO

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:12 - ID#207145)
You are correct, my friend. I stand ready. But to protect Clinton. Not. I was a volunteer in Vietnam.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:13 - ID#147211)
Grizz your 19:56
I'm going to answer that by email.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:14 - ID#317193)
Brother your posts...disturbing...currencies failing....
Maybe I have reason to be holding physical gold and silver when all about me think I'm crazy.

Hope all is better than you see. Never wanted the physical to really do that well...just my hedge...physical rocketing is bad news for the world.

Take care...2000 insurance...and I'm no gloom & doomer. Never know what's ahead. Hope all I ever aim at is a paper target.

We watch this ne...never mind. PMSP...close.


(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:17 - ID#207145)
Clinton is out there on that limb, popping and cracking
all due to the complicated web he wove, in his attemp to decieve. Let him alone to self destruct. I have no pity.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:17 - ID#342376)
Sure feels like the "the fecal matter is going to hit the rotating blades" soon...
How many out there worry that you identify with GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD's excitement? Where are you EJ? Lost on the highway with your Ox-drawn Chevy, looking for whale blubber? There's a saying, Watch what you pray for.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:18 - ID#147211)
My damn email just screwed up. I'll get it out asap

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:20 - ID#207145)
Learned ones: When will the dollar peak--fall?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:20 - ID#342376)
Sorry....the full saying is...
Watch what you pray for, you just might get it.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:23 - ID#207145)
Crazy Times
It is when the fecal matter hits the rotating oscellator.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:25 - ID#335184)
Rj, Now just wait one cotton picking pea turkey moment ! " What's Butt ugly got to do with it ?"
Good God man that's easy for you to say !
Why I've been Butt ugly & short all my life & I can tell you that being visually & vertically challenged for a short miserable life is no fairy god mother myth about choosing some dame that can feel some friggin pea on the bottom of some 40 friggen mattresses !

My god man, how does your self rightious & pompous ass sleep at night knowing your blowing such harmful spewage across the air waves ! Man don't you know that this stuff is going out on the air waves into the eternal ether of outer space & other alian cultures may very well be tuning in ! How do you know Enstein that this new Lady Bugg wasn't meant to be the heart's fullfillment of all the minute inner gratification that our heavenly being has providently proscribed for an answer to the prayers of one little short, butt ugly litte human being ? In short Ms. Lady Bugg could be Mrs. Right & your HIPO is to tell poor Strat to sit there on his Butt ugly crooked Johnson, while his one & only dream girl floats past him by in cyber space horyism for ever ! Indeed, What kind of discredit to your race, kind & gender do you propose we take you for ?
Think of the callous harm your advice could reap for all cosmic time ! NEVER let a GOLDEN opprotunity to captivate a wonderful & strange exotic creature pass you by !
And ANOTHER thingy ! What if you broke LADY BUGG's heart becauseall she was looking for in Strat was a little spark in his eye & a flicker of a flame in his belly ? Hugh, did you ever stop for a single nanosecond & reflect on the other innocent life you've tried to wreck tonight ? Well hummmmm ?

OTOH,I've been married to my Jr. High School Sweetheart for 23 years, what do I know !
Picked her up cold at a pot luck supper!

Very tastey too !

Don't give up Strat & go for thge gusto , Mein Herr !

What is that bull she that Spock always signs off with ?




(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:27 - ID#207145)
Brother Oris
I risked life and limb defending hippies once. The next time the bastards can die.I will only risk life and limb now for honorable people.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:28 - ID#434108)
the more things change, the more they remain the same

from my 9/27/97 post:

"When the 'tent' collapses,
it will not be the 'center post', that goes first;
but the 'side-posts',
and even the 'stakes' . ... "

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:31 - ID#335184)
RJ & Strat ! OTOH, being short was a pretty Kewl Thingy to be today on the S&Peener!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:31 - ID#317193)
newtron....:)...:) your 21:25
ROFLOL...and having a beer w/out permission.


(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:32 - ID#401460)

China and Japan falling


(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:33 - ID#348129)
@SOROS Stiring the Pot
Japan Ready to break 15000. Dow is around the corner.......
15049.45 -332.57 -2.16%

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:33 - ID#238422)
PMSP, brother Tom. I got 5,500 rounds for my 12 pieces...
22 rimfire shells not included, hope it will be available
even when Soros is kicked out of Russia with the BOOM...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:35 - ID#207145)
To kill us off for certain business and banking intrests both here and overseas.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:36 - ID#411259)
@RJ (..... James .....) ID#411259:
Thanks...the choice of music was excellent.

Spit my coffee on the keyboard when I started to laugh. Keyboard doesn't work so well wet.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:37 - ID#93241)
I didn't know there were any hippies in Vietnam. I've had a lot of friends through the years who served in 'Nam ( I was still in grade school ) and I got a lot of respect for what you guys went through. I can't imagine how it must burn ya'...but hippies? You really think you were defending hippies?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:37 - ID#317193)
Brother oris...knew you'd have faith in you holds true:)
I'll try and catch up some...still have time til they ban sales.


(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:38 - ID#227238)
Panda: Check your mail.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:38 - ID#342376)
@ Blooper
"We watch this new rotating ocillator together, yes?"

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:39 - ID#207145)
Joe Sixpack is spending to a fare the well
BIG holliday season coming up. Have YOU checked your 401k lately?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:40 - ID#207145)
You watch for both of us.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:41 - ID#43352)
Is it the Fourth?
There could be fireworks before morning.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:42 - ID#335184)
Hey Tom we're running the asylum tonight ! What do you say we grab Nurse Ratchet, go drink 6
cool ones & have a smoke ?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:43 - ID#374204)
Leland - yes, our Polish forebeareres must lead the way, again.
A 2.4 million oz gold purchase. Will others see the way?

If Klinton executes a Poland fly-over enroute to Russia, perhaps Polska
ground-to-air could get the large kielbase in the crosshairs?

Why doesn't he pay a courtesy visit to at least one eastern European
or Baltic capital?

Management by crisis. Give me Nixon anytime. - Regards

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:43 - ID#207145)
Bill and Hillary were actually what I had in mind. Draft dodgers. I DON'T POST TO MAKE PEOPLE HAPPY.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:44 - ID#411259)
..... newtron .....



Also.. Congrats on the jr. high school sweetheart. In many ways I envy you.

PS strat -
Disregard prior
Lock 'em in the closet when they get uppity
Elbow 'em in the ribs if they get mouthy
Dump 'em off the rear transom into the deep Pacific
If they ever start talkin' bout divorce and gettin' half

These things to do
They will work

And don't let the lady bug
Get under your skin
Remember the moth to the flame
The bright flash of conflagration
Is all they have together
But, Damn.... That flash is bright
Problem is no seconds

It is a one time shot

It is

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:46 - ID#238422)
Honestly, I was always curious why Clinton's runaway
from the service did not affect votes of the American
people. Many say that many did the same thing, so who
cares, but I believed the U.S. president, who is
selected from 200 mil people, must be clean and LOYAL
to his country at all times. Your feelings are
understandable, but MIG-29 is better than F-16...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:46 - ID#342376)
To the bloopster....
That was a take off on the posts of ANOTHER, not a shot. ( Cause I don't wanta be 404'd right when the fireworks may be starting )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:47 - ID#207145)
Maybe tonight I should try to MAKE SOMEBODY HAPPY

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:48 - ID#434108)
this, I think, is my favorite quote/item from 1929.....'deja vu' ? :
' ' ' Friday, November 1, 1929, Page 3, Col. 3


Lays Crash to Small Investors' Lack of Experience ' ' ''

( from NY Times historical files, as 'discovered' while searching
for a 'Steve Blizard' - url )


Shall we create a kitco-lottery/pool?...:: )

Who among us,
can most accurately guess-teminate:
who/where/what ....
will be the favored, targeted... scapegoats ....

to be blamed..
the unfolding, world-wide, inevitable, economic depression ?

Asia - ?
Japan - ?
"trade-dumping" - ?
Moslem unrest - ?
nuclear arms race escalation by "3rd-world" powers - ?
Russian instability - ?
Euro squabbles - ?
etc., etc.

Would any one
cast their vote for, the one and only, singular cause:

artificial money and credit, created out of thin air....
and divorced from gold-backing, discipline, and integrity.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:50 - ID#207145)
Oris, I refer you to Disney
Not John, but Michael Ovitz. He also likes MIGs. So does Clinton, Chinese of course.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:53 - ID#207145)
The Media controls what we think. Gary Heart made them mad. They love Clinton. Hello.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:54 - ID#335184)
Soros & 666 !
Church Lady says : "Now who could it be ? If some one was a big wig advisor to Little Mother Russia & that some one just happened to be very, very Short the Hong Kong Stock market & HK $ & that Little Old Mother Russia asked that certain person for advice & that certain person told little Mother Russia that it would be far, far better to devalue the Ruble, now who would that person have to be ?

SATAN !!!!!!!!!!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:55 - ID#344239)

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:56 - ID#207145)
MIG--MAY IT GET(airbourne)
Evil Empires have their supporters. And we know who they are.Ha, Ha.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 21:57 - ID#93241)
Blooper, thanks. Perhaps that was the wrong question...

RJ, newtron, you guys seen Dear Abby? Maybe Dr. Laura will have to do....

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:00 - ID#93241)
...and Blooper
Don't worry about making me happy. I don't figure my happiness is anyone else's job.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:02 - ID#207145)
No sweat . Guys over here having fun, during war time, don't need defending. They didn't take a stand. They firmly believe they were the smart ones. No experience, though, for what is unfolding.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:02 - ID#374204)
Monica told Bill that Lewinsky was a Russian name,
and Moscow told him that they could control the press while oppressing
the girls. So off goes the predator to a new hunting ground.

Is he bringing Hillary? Chelsea?

I'm not a big women's rights supporter, BUT
his poor daughter! What must she be thinking about now.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:03 - ID#411259)
..... Oris .....

On the relative merit of Mig 29s

Make no mistake, I want one..
Fully armed and fueled
Damn g forces got nothing on me
Does that thingie go super sonic?
I hope so, or this crate of stingers
Left over from the Afghani resistance
Could POP one of those sweeties
Right out the sky

On second thought
Screw the Mig
Give me one of those
Big Sikorsky attack helicopters
You know the one I mean
Got those stubby weapons wingie thingies
Laser guided, and infrared,
And radar controlled missiles
Them babies got it all

Matter of fact, Ill take two
Payment will be in platinum bars
With pictures of the Czar stamped on the face
Dont seem to be going up
Might as well trade it all
For some good firepower


(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:04 - ID#93241)
Where is...
...tolerant1 when you need him. Somewhere in the hills of Kentucky, the happy hunting grounds. He'd know what to do...hey, wait a minute...where's the worm? I'll be right back...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:07 - ID#207145)
Those MIGs might have to last 100 years. We got new ones coming on line soon.....

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:08 - ID#300202)
Mother Earth Goin Into The Sh!tter
while Kitco gets excited! What's wrong with this picture? I'm down 1/2
of my insurance monies but wud accept the loss for return of stability.
Time to return to love of collective & not individual. Don't mean to rock
da boat, but it's SAD. GO GOLD!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:08 - ID#401460)
Asia Watch

Shanghai Composite
-18.525 -1.54%

Nikkei 225
-250.95 -1.63%

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:09 - ID#335184)
Rj !
"Moth to the flame " ? "One shot deal " ?
Bright flash of conflageration" ?

You just don't get it do you ?

Fog Horn leg Horn would say, "I say ya just don't get it !
I say, why that boy is as dim as a smoke house at midnight ! "

I am saying celebrate life & honor all human beings,
especially the fair ones of the euphemistically denominated
"weaker" sex !

Tally Ho & off to the chase !

Che,Che la FEMM & Viva la differance' !
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH don't you just love it when I talk Frensh ! ?

Your Humble Yet Obstreperous Servant,


(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:09 - ID#207145)
MIGS are stolen US planes, Like all other Soviet Technology

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:11 - ID#207145)
Good thing USSR got a few Germans----No Sputtnik
Or Wendys swimwear shows. Drool over those hairy women .

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:11 - ID#427357)

Nikkei already down 251 points......... it's going to 4000!!!!

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:13 - ID#207145)
You act like it's the END OF THE CYCLE or sompthin'

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:13 - ID#412286)
mkts overseas
Any quotes and if you have them please provide site.. thanks

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:14 - ID#207145)
Were in the SPIN CYCLE....Monicar Lewinski

Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:16 - ID#384350)
Tantalus, Klinton's Journey
I don't know about Russia, but Hillary is supposed to be doing one of those women's conferences in Belfast while BJ plays golf. I think Chelsea will be there too.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:18 - ID#411259)
..... newtron .....

You don't get it
I am supposed to be working
On the weekly precious metals review
Tis a chore I would rather avoid
By writing silly blather
Bout stuff I know nothin' about

That's all


(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:18 - ID#429121)
RJ - add Grenada, Panama, Haiti, Ethiopia, Kuwait/Iraq, Bosnia - should not have gotten so involved in any of those places either. Like using a sledge hammer to kill a gnat on your little toe. And we're still paying for those sins ( i.e., embassy targets ) . And while I feel for the families who lost loved ones in all those places, they knew what they were getting into before they joined the services that sent them there.

Saudi, Israel, UAE, Turkey, et al - let's get our troops out of those places ASAP. What have they done for us lately? Mostly kept the oil flowing. We as a nation would be better off not supporting them and the flow of foriegn oil - apply that $200 Billion per year foriegn welfare aid to our own investment into domestic production and alternative fuels.

Like you said Spud, I would pay $30 per gallon of gas to this end.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:24 - ID#401460)
Hong Kong
Hang Seng

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:24 - ID#412286)
On the Perestroika deception. Are the Russians ready to go back to cold war when they know """market confidence cant take it"" Why did Yeltsin's wunderkind meet with the Communist party head. Why is the Communist Party in Russia calling foe a big protest in October why not now. Remember the last Bolshevist coup occurred in October. Any guesses or suspicions or as Defector and former KGB operative Anatoly Golytsyn states in "Perestroika Deception"..the mission has been completed and the time is right ie US implosion from a pedestal of confidence and belief. Dont forget BUSH Brady Bonds ie if Latin America goes under US Taxpayers are on the hook FOR LATIN DEBT..are they aware Reagan and Bush and some Dems did this to them to create an economic situation which would allow for movement of US industries to these low labor cost countries. When they get stuck with the tab and find out why its gonna be loads a fun.I say NO ticky No pay

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:25 - ID#30116)
The question is, cyclical or secular? If a cyclical bear then we get few months of bad news. If a secular bear develops out of this.... uh oh. As I recall from the days of high school biology, there capillaries in the human body so narrow that blood cells can only pass 'single file'. Sort of like, well, you know........ The road to hell is broad and easy. The road to riches, er, Wall street, is broad and easy. Now, about getting your money back....

Gusto Oro
(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:25 - ID#377235)
Malaysia down 3%

Korea down 1.15% at 299 ( 300 taken out )^N225&d=t

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:26 - ID#238422)
RJ, on the third thought...

I do not want those bars,
I do want bars w/o Czar,
I want you alive and well,
I'll use my good firepower
To protect you and your brain,
If your brain will come to
The right conclusion on
Where in the hell we are going
With those damned precious metals
You are buying/selling
For so many years....

On the fourth thought
Screw those precious metals...

On the fifth thought
Screw the fourth thought...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:26 - ID#207145)
Hong Kong up good. Whats the BIG DEAL?

Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug
(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:29 - ID#432214)
RJ & Bank of Canada
Last night I posted a comment at 2250 hrs on the Bank of Canada and the sale of its gold at $329.76 per oz. How long ago could the Bank of Canada have sold its gold at $329.76 an oz in the futures market??

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:29 - ID#207145)
Panda, Go back and look at 1973, and ask that question.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:31 - ID#207145)
1973 is perfect. Nixon, inflation, oil currencies, the whole 9.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:33 - ID#207145)

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:34 - ID#219363)
I'm with you guy, what's the big deal. Hong Kong is up. I'm feeling DOW 10000 in my heart for tomorrow, it's gonna rock. Most of the people here at Kitco are just doom-sayers, waiting for the markets to tank, well, it ain't gonna happen I say, it just ain't gonna happen. The bear is dead, the 401-k'ers shot it. This bull is here to stay - get on his back, or get out of the way, we're going for the serious highs. I heard on television that the market is way over-sold.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:35 - ID#293211)
Japan Down

Tomorrow is the crash - Black Friday said the caterpillar to Alice

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:36 - ID#207145)
1973--74--50% HAIRCUT.
This ain't gonna be funny.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:37 - ID#219363)
You're wrong man, this rocks, the bottom is IN! It's all blue sky and sunrise from here, get on the bull guy, or you're gonna miss all the action tomorrow.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:40 - ID#207145)
Then I assume you are buying puts. Actually Asia looks better tonight. I keep my wits about me, try not to be an alarmist. I am fully in cash and happy.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:40 - ID#429121)
Heard this one today -
Question: What do you get when you combine Monica Lewinski with Ted Kazynski?

Answer: A dynamite blowj....., er, uh, oral sex act...

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:43 - ID#30116)
That was Demorats going after Replicans. History repeats, but not in the same fashion.

Mr. Mick
(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:43 - ID#345321)
I've had 3 beers so I'm fully qualified to say the following............
Let's enjoy the ride down. Nothin' we can do about it, so enjoy it as much as possible. The shorts are gonna eat it, those who hold PMs must be patient. Their day is coming soon.

Mad Hatter
(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:44 - ID#293211)


(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:45 - ID#207145)
By the way, threre will be no 10,000 for many, many,many moons.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:45 - ID#411259)
..... I can sleep soundly under the oris umbrella .....

Today was all short covering in the last 20 minutes of trading.

Only tomorrow will give us a clue on which way now

The charts say $4.80 silver, $362 platinum ( w/o Czar ) , and $278 gold. I don't care about palladium, for I will not trade it. Tomorrow should be modestly up, which will tell us zero about this week. I would rather see the stuff blow out and drop and be done with it rather than putz around here. That was putz, NOT Puetz. Homey don't do Puetz.

Gold is dead for the year, we have seen the highs and they are in our past . But whenever I can deliver gold coins for under $300 including all costs, I step up and recommend the hell out of it. Sold better than a thousand ounces for delivery in the last two days. The Why Too Kay thingie is real, and keeping what you got seems to be a wiser mission than making it grow ( with great risk ) for the next 18 months.

And people hereabouts thought I don't like gold.

I love it, when its cheap.

Its cheap

It is

Finally, even Goldy left the nest, to join up with Silvey, and Platonius. They didnt move far, just a couple trees over, but the patio is strangely quiet, now that Mama Mock isnt dive bombing me and complaining loudly whenever I step out. They are still young, but their wings look strong. We will see together which one flies best, yes?


(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:45 - ID#189268)
Gold Silver Platinum Bug/RE BOC Gold sale
I would guess the sale was made in Sept-Nov '97 time frame. You mentionted that the gold was sold previously in the futures market and delivered in July. Looking at the price over the last year I would guess this time-frame.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:47 - ID#219363)
Yeah, truth is Asia doesn't look too bad, I mean, people are used to seeing most of them drop a percent or two. Hard to say what'll happen tomorrow though, I think most want to see what happens with Russia and the Dmark. I wouldn't feel right even guessing at this point. Who knows, could rally, could tank, could just be extremely even and boring.

Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:47 - ID#384350)
Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug
Gold at $329 would have been around the time of the Swiss Gold Sales announcements in October of 97, I believe.

Hong Kong is important to the FTSE in London. A strong rebound in Hong Kong may help London and then might spillover to other European markets. NY seeing a positive Europe, may attempt to rally.

Also that link to asian charts said that HK fulfilled its downside target on a H&S pattern. A bounce is not unexpected.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:47 - ID#334219)
I am no investor in big cap gold as juniors are what I buy...but ABX has done a good deal with Pierina. DOn't forget thst Pierena will have cash costs of US$50. That will them huge cash flows to continue their growth.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:49 - ID#424394)
We are in rare form tonight - the squirrels are loose in the attic!
How many ballistic miles is it from Long Beach to Long Island?
Do they serve fortune cookies on those flights?

Mad Hatter
(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:49 - ID#293211)

"Now is the time the walrus said, to speak of many things, of ships and sails, of cabbages and Kings, and why the sea is boiling hot and wether pigs ( the dow? ) has wings?"

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:49 - ID#207145)
I'll love it more when its cheaper. I do want to buy some from you later.
Some from Kitco too. A lot.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:50 - ID#301318)
Indonesian Chinese flee Surabaya in fear of riots
08:21 a.m. Aug 13, 1998 Eastern
By Harry Retnowati

SURABAYA, Indonesia, Aug 13 ( Reuters ) - Hundreds of Indonesia's ethnic
Chinese have left the country or are trying to do so soon for fear of riots
in the run-up to independence day celebrations on August 17, witnesses said
on Thursday.

Rumours of riots around independence day have been rife although President
B.J. Habibie and the military have dismissed the speculation. Ethnic Chinese
say they have received threats that they will be attacked and raped.

About 150 ethnic Chinese were at the airport of Indonesia's second city of
Surabaya, in East Java, on Thursday waiting for flights to the country's
holiday island Bali, or Singapore, Hong Kong and Australia.

Hundreds more crowded airline offices around the city to buy tickets. Crowds
of ethnic Chinese were also at Surabaya's immigration office applying for

An ethnic Chinese student in Surabaya, who declined to be named, said she
was threatened with rape when she boarded a bus in the city on Thursday.

``I had given the driver 1,000 rupiah ( eight U.S. cents ) to pay for the bus
fare of 700 rupiah. When he did not return my change, I asked him: 'Where's
my change?','' she said.

``He turned to me and said, 'Do you want to be raped? Wait, you will get
your return on the 17th'.''

Ethnic Chinese were particular targets of the violence that swept several
cities in May. In Jakarta, human rights groups say almost 1,200 people died,
many of them looters trapped in burning buildings, while more than 150
ethnic Chinese women were raped.

The riots added to the pressure which toppled former president Suharto on
May 21 amid Indonesia's worst economic crisis in three decades.

Evi Tanoyo, an ethnic Chinese woman who was among the crowd of passengers at
Surabaya airport, said she was afraid to remain in her home in Jombang,
about 100 km ( 60 miles ) west of Surabaya.

She said she still felt afraid despite repeated assurances from East Java
military commander Major-General Djojo Soebroto that nothing untoward would
occur on independence day.

``I don't feel safe despite what the military said. Not a single person was
arrested during the riots in May. What if I remained here and riots really
broke out? Then I would have become a victim,'' she said.

Officials from several travel agents and airline offices said flights from
Surabaya to Bali and overseas destinations were already fully booked until
August 20. Bali was not affected by the May riots.

``The demand has increased 300 percent compared to last month,'' said an
official from the travel industry who declined to be identified.

``Most of the demand comes from the ethnic Chinese. They still feel
uncertain about their safety because none of those responsible for the
mid-May riots have been prosecuted,'' the official said.

An official from East Java's department of immigration in Surabaya, Giri
Haryanto, told Reuters last week that his office had been processing more
than 500 passport applications daily since the beginning of the month.

Chinese were also reported to be leaving from the capital Jakarta ahead of
the independence day celebrations. Travel agents in the city said flights
out of the city were fully booked with several airlines.

The May riots sparked an exodus of thousands of ethnic Chinese, many of whom
have not returned. Economists say Indonesia's economic recovery will be even
further away if they do not return.

Although they make up less than five percent of Indonesia's population, the
ethnic Chinese control a significant share of Indonesia's economy.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 22:52 - ID#207145)
It is all going to hell. We know. I will do OK. In cash and some coins from RJ and Kitco. I do my best, then smile.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:03 - ID#290306)
That's entertainment!
As Owl said:
"On a scale from one to ten... It's not good"

Loose threads all over the place.

Oris - are you speaking of outright rebellion? Secession? Armed supression in Russia? TIA BBL

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:05 - ID#219363)
Is it my imagination, or has the world gotten a little restless lately ? N. Korea to resume nuke exercises, Indonesians wanting to beat up on the Chinesse, people blowing up embassies, Iraq in defiance again ( with a weird change in strategy on the part of America, still haven't figured that one out ) , Saudi doesn't like us ( America ) , Pakistan and India giving each other a hard time, etc, etc. Is there a full moon or something ?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:06 - ID#424394)
I feel sorry for some folks in the cities.
Most of the time I hate cities - any congropolis over 100,000 people.
Even those over 10,000 can be sorry places - depending on the community.
Often I don't mind if the cities get nuked or self-immolated.
Then I meet some nice, intelligent folk travelin' through on a vacation and I find out they're from Dallas, Seattle, Minneapolis, Denver, Orlando, Boston or even New York City! This just plumb amazes me
how nice smart folks like that could stay in such a place.
I only wish they had the foresight to get out in time.
We could use some of them out here.
I will feel right sorry for 'em
if they don't make it out
in time.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:09 - ID#43460)
What, me worry?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:09 - ID#238422)
RJ, you see, it worked. Thanks.
Post your thoughts again some time
When you're silent, it's a crime...
We are waiting for your thoughts
We are hoping ....
.. damn, sorry, my friend, cann't finish
this nice poem right now, still worry about Russia...screw
Soros and rouble too....screw palladium in particular....
time to dump some of it.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:10 - ID#401460)
Hong Kong
Hang Seng

Good Night All

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:12 - ID#433172)
Anyone explain what 15% backing of the eruo means? Does it mean they will redeem their money with gold somehow? Where is the backing? somewhere in the backroom NO ADMITANCE.

What difference does it make if the "backing is 15%-30% any percent as long as it's redeemable in gold? But it's not, if not, it doesn't mean a thing.

Also gold at what rate? I admit ignorance on this issue. I've also found ignorance is a condition we are programed to accomodate.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:13 - ID#348295)



(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:14 - ID#267344)
I can hardly believe it...
WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- Anticipating an impeachment report next month from Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr, House Judiciary Committee leaders are planning to restrict access to sensitive evidence by changing a rule that currently would let all 435 House members review it.

``I think we're supportive of it,'' said Rep. John Boehner, R-Ohio, a member of the leadership. A Democratic committee official said that party's leadership and Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, the Judiciary Committee's senior Democrat, would back the change.

Starr is expected to narrow the report solely to evidence of perjury, obstruction of justice and witness tampering in the Monica Lewinsky case, and his staff has already begun drafting possible language for such a report.

Any report Starr sends to Congress would form the basis for lawmakers to decide whether to begin an impeachment inquiry that could lead to a vote on whether to remove Clinton from office. But lawmakers have signaled that such proceedings likely wouldn't start until next year.

The goal for House Judiciary Committee Chairman Henry Hyde, R-Ill., initially will be to confine access to the report to members of his committee so sensitive evidence will be safeguarded. A resolution will be offered to the House floor to change the current rule that gives any House member access to the report.

Modifying the rule is so important that Starr may ``be told to hold off'' transmitting a report until the issue is resolved, said a House official who spoke only on condition of anonymity. House officials said they expect that Starr would notify them in advance that a report was ready. Only the full House could change the rule.

In a nutshell, this says that Bill Clinton will not be impeached. There is dangerous information that Congress does not want the public to know. Congress will wait until after the elections, then narrowly vote against impeachment after the public has lossed interest. After $40 million, Clinton has won again. Jesus, will justice ever prevail?

I guess Reno will successfully forget about appointing an independent council to investigate illegal campaign contributions too. The central government of United States of America is a disaster - a complete and total joke. Brace yourselves, the injustice is only the beginning - and I see no end.

If you vote for the incumbant in any US election, you are preserving and promoting injustice. If there will ever be an appropriate time to drop a little e-mail to your representative, that time is NOW.


(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:14 - ID#255226)
Dec Silver should find resistance between 5.40 - 5.45. Sell long silver positions over 5.40 and wait and see what happens.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:15 - ID#344239)

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:19 - ID#424394)
You know how the critters get nervous, start running around,
how they are easily spooked, fear in their eyes,
just before an earthquake.

Maybe one helluva world quake is brewing under our feet.
Or an ELE* asteroid is coming in from sunside.
Or some other world catastrophe is just over the horizon.
Our primordial instincts & senses are trying to tell us something.

*Extinction Level Event - as the President called it in Deep Impact.
P.S. Armageddon was a technical joke. Plot sucked too. Waste of money!
Deep Impact was great - plot, script, technical accuracy, etc.
I only wish the asteroid had hit Washington D.C. dead on.
But then there are all those intelligent folk around there.
I think there is anyway.
Is there intelligent life in Washington D.C.?

P.P.S. When am I going to see Gold in common circulation again?
I'm tired of this zinc, cupronickel, paper and plastic crapola!
How many of you are gonna sell 10-grain coins to us masses?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:22 - ID#31876)
The Most Backward Thinking That I Have Read in a Long Time - By Elaine Gazarelli

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:24 - ID#411259)
..... G&S&PB .....

I read your post, but you answered it yourself at the end.
They sold it months ago.
Nobody on Earth would pay $329
For something I could deliver for less than $295
Seems their hedge strategy is paying off, yes?
Gold is what. $285 today?
Yet they sold it for $329
I would describe this as good business,
With the caveat that POG rises before too long


For you folks gearing up for an argument against hedging, most of your beloved mines are open today because of it. Also no arguments about the merits of hedging, because if you dont lock in the price, the mine down the street will. For those that would sugest a cartel, they dont work. Never really have. Never really will. Somebody is always selling some extra out the back door. This is what defines a market. Subtracting hedges or speculative shorts from the equation, is Bouillabaisse without the fish heads.

It aint Bouillabaisse without em.

Wouldnt eat it anyway
I perceive an evil broth
When bowls of Bouillabaisse abound

And rightly so

So Righty O

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:25 - ID#238422)
Seriously, I do no know what will happen, but something
will happen. The problem is that MAJORITY of population
is very unhappy and scared. They can not go any further
like this. My friend in Moscow said to me that situation
is very bad. He never talked that way. He expects trouble.
IMF does not have enough money to cover financial problems.
Tax policies are just absolutely stupid and self-distructive.
Industry is in the toilet. Commies are on the rise....They
don't mind firing a couple of shots if situation dictates
and they got ammo. Remember 1993?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:28 - ID#219363)
Yeah, I dunno, that could be. Maybe it's just economics and people are getting a little weird, or maybe it's just always like this and I haven't paid enough attention. I don't think so though.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:28 - ID#36965)
Fresh evidence of deflation
I went over to Sonic tonight and bought a rootbeer flurry and cheese sandwich. I was surprised at how low the bill was and questioned the waitress if we might not have been undercharged. She assured me that it was happy hour and that all the food was half-priced. How can we get a good belt of inflation going and gold continuing north with this sort of activity. Well to bed for me--Dow down tomorrow, gold up sharply--then I awoke from the dream. Good night all.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:31 - ID#252127)
Pierina @ $50 an ounce, bullcrap

The Arequippa purchase and putting that mine into production have cost Barrick shareholders a lot more than 50 bucks an ounce. Whats this talk about nationalzation in Peru?
Gunrunner, what are you using for transportation?

Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:31 - ID#384350)
Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug, Canadian Intervention
I remember Oct 97. The Canadian Dollar was under pressure, fighting to stay above 70 cents. If Canada did sell Gold at that time it was likely because the Loonie was under pressure and the Canadian officials were using proceeds to intervene in the currency market.

Contrary to RJ's opinion that it was good business, I consider more akin to a fisherman selling his fishing boat in order to buy something to eat.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:34 - ID#341234)
To: Leland
I saw that interview on NBR tonight. That moronic woman thinks the stock market will keep going up just because inflation is low. Is she too stupid to know that inflation and interest rates were low DURING THE DEPRESSION?

Really, I hope she is successful in convincing a few more suckers to buy. I just sent another check to Prudent Bear tonight, so I need the suckers and the PPT to keep the market up for a few days.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:40 - ID#287223)
...CLINTON MAY ADMIT...New York Times via Drudge
to a "specific type" of ( sexual )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:43 - ID#57232)
EURO -- 15% 'backed' by gold
George: All this means is that 15% of EURO reserves are to be gold. This does not necessarily mean that the Europeans will buy and sell gold to maintain the value of the EURO, so it is not like the old-style solidly gold backed currency, which to my knowledge only the BIS has with their gold Franks.
One word of caution -- the EURO has internal and expernal reserves, so it is easy to get lost in the terminology mumbo-jumbo. For example, the 15% is probably in reference to the external reserves, which I assume refers to the EURO itself. Don't need much gold right now, since most trade is still in individual currencies. The internal reserves would be like the German CB gold holdings, which support the German mark. Eventually, if the EURO launch goes smoothly, all reserves will back the EURO.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:44 - ID#219363)
Gets withdrawn from the bank, into a guy's wallet, down the street, into the pub, buys a beer, gets deposited back into the bank, gets withdrawn by a woman, goes into her purse, gets a soda from the drink machine, gets taken out by the vending machine guy, goes back into the bank, gets withdrawn by an old lady, goes into her purse, pays the paperboy, who puts it in his pocket, goes to sleep, gets up, goes to school, buys a baseball card from his friend, who puts it in his pocket, which goes through the laundry, then down to the arcade, buys some tokens, goes back in the bank with the deposits, gets withdrawn by a guy, who puts it in his wallet, goes to the grocery store, pays for beer, goes back in the bank, gets withdrawn by a girl, walks with her mom back home, gets stored in a box for six years, gets taken out, taken to the store, buys some new shoes, goes back in the bank.

Do you realize how many dollars in taxes that single dollar generated ?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:44 - ID#424394)
Are our domestic animals becoming agitated (four-footed or two-footed
Is all this crazy behavior a precursor of something bigger?

While we are preparing ourselves how about our pets?

Is our feeling of impending doom and thus depression being driven by
some deeper sense that defies rational analysis but should be heeded?

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:45 - ID#45173)
Hey, clone
I'm thirsty : )

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:47 - ID#31876)
What makes me most irritated, my elderly mother has about
$475K in Texaco, A.T.&T., IBM, etc., and I cannot get her
to listen to my advice after she watches these evening
financial programs. Needless to say, I have never mentioned
the word "gold".

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:48 - ID#402148)
NY TIMES set to release report of Clinton is gonna admit Moinca hummed
the Battle Hyman of the Republic on his bobo......did not have "sex" her.

Monica sounds like a dream, fast, doesn't stay over and well, more than accomidative.

Report due out just after midnigt, when the first un of the morning edition is in the "pipeline".

Watch DRUGEREPORT for updates.


Gianni Dioro__A
(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:53 - ID#384350)
Savage, Klintons Avowal
I can hear it now: "It was only oral. And she didn't inhale."

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:54 - ID#263254)
Mozel...I have read all of your thoughts and dissertations on
the machinations, manipulations and future of USA. I have weighed, balanced, & considered your writings, and like others, find them to be extremely compelling. Would you consider putting into words your theories regarding global events as related to previous postings of the last 2 days? You will have a rapt audience, of that I am are evidencing the concerns of many people who lurk and post here.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:54 - ID#57232)
Selling Gold forward
Gianni Dioro: I think overuse of producer gold derivatives trading of any kind also tempts the producers not to economize. Sort of like crop subsidies. Why improve the efficiency of your mine when you can sell gold at $425/oz? The more successful gold producers are the ones that trim production costs below spot price, or shut down altogether during a long term gold bear. Certainly the stockholders would not like leaving the gold in the ground, rather than selling it, but it sure is cheaper that way. You just wait until the price of gold goes up again.
How much would you bet that George Soros gold holdings are in that form -- with the gold sitting in the ground? Sure beats selling the gold at a loss. I'll bet that he has some inground gold that he bought at 5$/oz or so.
My thoughts, IMHO, are that gold derivatives trading is bust suited for short-intermediate term price hedging to get over the annual rough spots. Long term it is probably best to let the economics rule the response.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:54 - ID#411259)
..... HopeFull .....
@ ( NY TIMES set to release report of Clinton is gonna admit Moinca hummed )

HF -

I heard he would testify that she just forgot the words......


(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:55 - ID#341234)
To: Leland
I am having EXACTLY the same problem. My Mother and her husband recently retired and they are about 90% in stocks. I have tried for months to convince them to be more conservative. I fear they will lose a lot of money before they will finally get out. They have no debt and will get by, but they may have to cut back on the luxuries that make retirement fun.

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:55 - ID#267344)
EJ - Greetings!
Yes, clone shall see that your thirst is satiated. The next message you recieve from clone will see to that. -c

(Thu Aug 13 1998 23:56 - ID#242328)
Gazarelli is right
Come on, you guys!

I TOLD you Greenspan would prevent the November crash. Anybody
remember my major criteria? If the powers-that-be could drive 30-year
bond rates down below the 5.75% level.

And they did it, didn't they?

Gazarelli is right. We'll see 30-year bond rates break 5.5% soon. : )

The crash will be shifted further into the future. : )