Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 00:00 - ID#252286)
O
O

ravenfire
(Tue Sep 08 1998 00:09 - ID#333126)
Gianni Dioro (re: Malaysian reserve requirements)
down to 6% now, will be 4% on Sep 16th.

if you thought 6% was bad enough...

add to that the govt. buying blue chips too using public funds ( sorta like HK but not so widely media-known ) ...

anyone wanna take bets on whether Dr. Mahatdir still has a job as PM in a few months time?

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 00:20 - ID#384350)
Roosevelt Orders 4-Day Bank Holiday, Puts Embargo on Gold, Calls Congress
USE OF SCRIP AUTHORIZED
-------------------
President Takes Steps Under Sweeping Law of War Time.
-------------------
PRISON FOR GOLD HOARDER
-------------------
The Proclamation Provides for Withdrawals From Banks Against New Deposits
-------------------
CONGRESS SITS THURSDAY
-------------------
Day of Conference With the Cabinet and Financial Men Precedes the Decree
-------------------

WASHINGTON, March 5.--To prevent the export, hoarding or earmarking of gold or silver, coin or bullion or currency, President Roosevelt issued a proclamation at 11 o'clock tonight, in which he ordered a bank holiday from tomorrow through Thursday, March 9. Earlier in the day he had summoned a special session of Congress to meet on Thursday.

This sweeping action was taken after a day of conferences, among officials and bankers, the President taking recourse to war powers granted under the trading-with-enemy act.

As a result of the proclamation all banking activities will be suspended during the holiday except as permitted by regulations of the Secretary of the Treasury, thus taking this country technically off the gold standard until the four-day period expires.

In order that there may not be a complete suspension of all banking and exchange operations, the proclamation authorizes the issuance of Clearing House certificates, which may be used as currency until the banks return to a more normal functioning.

...Points of the Proclamtion...

The main points in the proclamation are:

1. A national banking holiday from March 6 to March 9 inclusive.

2. An embargo on the withdrawal of gold and silver for export or domestic use during that period, except with permission of the Secretary of the Treasury.

3. The issuance of Clearing House certificates or other evidence of claims against the assets of banking institutions to permit business to carry on.

4. Authoriztion to banking institutions under regulations of the Secretary of the Treasury to receive new deposits and make them subject to withdrawal on demand without any restrictions or limitations.


Friends of the President said he had a definite three-point program for the solution of the banking problem and that tonight's action included two of them. The first, they said, was a protection of the currency against unreasonable withdrawal. The second was to furnish a temporary currency. The third is permanent reorganization of the whole banking system, which, they predicted would be proposed to the special session of Congress meeting here Thursday.

...Officials Act Quickly...

The Federal Reserve Board and Secretary Woodin, with the advice of former Secretary Ogden L. Mills acted immediately after the issuance of the proclamation to make it effective.

The proclamation was issued at 11 o'clock, bringing to an end a series of conferences held by Treasury officials and the new Cabinet throughout the day.

The proclamation affects all Federal Reserve Banks and national banks, trust companies, savings banks, building and loan associations, credit unions or other institutions engaged in any form of banking business.

The proclamation provides for a fine of $10,000 or imprisonment of not more than ten years or both for any violation of its provisions by gold hoarding or otherwise.

The President acted under Section 5 ( b ) and section 16 of the trading with the enemy act to place these extraordinary restrictions on the nation's banking structure. The courts have interpreted the act as giving the President authority to bring about a complete suspension of gold and silver payments as well as an embargo on their export.

Section 5 ( b ) of the trading-with-.........
====================

From the Monday, March 6, 1933, frontpage of the NY Times.

TheMissingLink
(Tue Sep 08 1998 00:27 - ID#373403)
Gianni Dioro
Was anyone ever jailed under this new law?

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 00:30 - ID#252286)
Tell us more

F*Puetz you wrote:

"In order to get auto sales going again, then one means of cutting the cost of a car would be recission of the laws that compel catalytic converters from being a part of cars sold in America."

Could please elaborate further? How much platinum or palladium goes into an automobile? What percentage reduction of the total car price will the cessation of use of platinum and palladium bring? What are the alternatives? What are your sources for this information? What would changing these laws entail? How must congress act to repeal these laws? At what point do you see these laws being changed?

I only ask these questions because you offered your "definitive views on Plat and Palladium" to someone here earlier. Since definitive is defined by being the defining nature of that which is being defined, your claim is that you yourself have defined this market. If we are to take your definitive definition, could you please offer some facts to lend support for your views on these metals? I am very eager to learn more. If you do not have the answers to these questions, could you please state publicly that you have trouble with the definition of definitive?

Thanks

J*

PS
You think catalytic converters would go before air bags, sunroofs, stereos, leather interiors ( the only way to go ) , even spare tires? I would love to learn how you came to this conclusion? Your leap to the abolition of platinum and palladium from the auto manufacturing process is a stunning feat indeed and seems to be emotionally made. RJ likes platinum. You are obsessed with RJ. You cant stop talking about him. You now have embarked on another misinformation campaign to dissuade people from looking at platinum. You give bad information, with no facts to back it up, information that people may act on ( like Pegasus ) all because you hate RJ?. This is not responsible. Unless, of course, you do have the answers to these questions. Then I retract this entire post and will make you godfather of my beautiful daughter born by my beautiful wife.

Thanks Again

J*

Or will you dodge these like you dodge all the other questions when you are in over your head? If you dont have the answers to these, please let me know, I have about 20 more brought up by the post you made. I am very interested to learn, as I keep saying.

Thanks Again Also

J*

SDRer
(Tue Sep 08 1998 00:33 - ID#286249)
Goodnight thoughts-I'm a-wondering

In 1997 the Japanese could purchase an ounce of gold for 40K  ( +/- )
And the  was 116 +/_

And in 1998, the Japanese could purchase an ounce of gold for 40K  ( =/- )
And the  was 134 +/-

Plausible?..the Japanese are, AT PRESENT, dumping Treasuries
at the very private Fed window
And buying gold from? Under the 90s version of a Roosa Bonds agreement


sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 00:34 - ID#284255)
Who is going to be here come Y2k????
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth?imgsize
=320&opt=-z?=40.2857&ns=North&lon=74.5708&ew=West&alt=9&img=learth.evif

Resplice the url to view the US East Coast at night.

Lots of people consuming as fast as they can.

And it'll all go dark in a year.
Will there be food?
Power?
A civilized society?
Martial law?

Who are you going to call???

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 00:39 - ID#252286)
O yeah
It would be a good thing to know how much platinum or palladium goes into a car, and how it affects the price. If governments are to repeal these laws, how much savings will it bring?

This is crucial to your argument, and is the very heart and soul of it. Do you know the answers?

Thanks

J*

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 00:41 - ID#384350)
missinglink - Hoarders in Prison? The next time they will just be shot.
I'm not aware of any. I think the Govt just confiscated people's gold and issued FRN's in exchange.

I got the article from a beat-up old book, "Panics & Crashes...and how you can make money out of them" by Harry Schultz that I found in a used bookstore today. The book has reprints of a few NY Times front-pages, including the day after the 1929 crash. There was a lot of talk in that article like the fundamentals are sound, strong rallying at the close, the liquidation process is over.

BTW, Harry Schultz has a new book out on the Year 2K and how to prepare for it. It's $50, but it goes to $25 and $0 depending on whether you take out a subscription to his newsletter.

I was a little disappointed at his latest newsletter because his Y2K section had been excellent lately. This month he just touted his book and told everyone to get on the ball because it's more serious than many of us think.

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 00:43 - ID#384350)
missinglink
That line "Hoarder in Prison" was a subheadline talking about what the punishment would be for the nonconformers.

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 01:01 - ID#384350)
ravenfire, Govt Manipulation
What will happen in Hong Kong, if/when HSBC, which is now 9% owned by HK Govt, needs Billions of Dollars of infusions to keep afloat due to property loan losses?

It's going to be a nightmare. The HK currency must be on thin ice.

John Disney
(Tue Sep 08 1998 01:04 - ID#24135)
Morning coffee .. Berg river valley
to all ..
How come nobody ever calls ME an anarchist .. since
that is exactly what I am. I wouldn't be insulted. Why..
I'd be downright pleased.
My allegience to any nation would only extend to a
somewhat muted "Viva" for their rugby or cricket team.
And I can even shift positions on that one pretty
easily.
As for references to "good" Government social
programs .. I can only say horsepucky.

mozel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 01:07 - ID#153102)
@They Don't Need Your Gold
They will seize it if they get the chance, but it's no big deal. They have your land and your car. All they want and need is your labor. They have over half of your work life now.

In Y2K they may come foraging for your food and fuel, but it's a lot more efficient to seize those things before they go into distribution.

John Disney
(Tue Sep 08 1998 01:12 - ID#24135)
Siver play down under ..
for Nick ..
Assume MIM warrents you collect are the one expiring
March ( ?? ) next year that convert at a dollar ?? I have
an order in for those this morning down under.. They
parallel the asa jan calls striking 20. ( bit more out
of the money .. bit more time ) .
This is by the way the ONLY silver
play I would ever consider other than
calls on the metal.

mozel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 01:19 - ID#153102)
@Gianni
Hong Kong will create more money by issue of debt and load it on the people. That's all. Just like in the USA.

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 01:28 - ID#384350)
Mozel
Right, the whole thing is Mad! First the Govt supports the share price. Soon, they are going to have to support the business they just bought into and now the HK govt is the largest single shareholder ( not including secret syndicates ) . Conflict of interest? This isn't going to be a good thing for their currency.

John Disney
(Tue Sep 08 1998 01:42 - ID#24135)
Scarface wasnt such a bad guy ..
.. But that Elliott NESS !!
To all
Living under Mafia rule .. had some advantages. Little
Italy was always the safest place by far in New York.
Cosa Nostra had considerably more honour than the USG
and if in power would have run a lower cost safer
operation with much more individual freedom for all.
There would have been no social engineering.
The Kennedys saw the Mafia as competition and Bobby
went after organized crime in a big way. DIS-organized
crime was left alone since most of it comprised the
constituency of the Democrat Party.
Italy ran pretty well under indirect Mafia leadership.
But Now they have been corrupted and have gone back to
democracy.

PrivateInvestor
(Tue Sep 08 1998 01:42 - ID#225283)
Uncle loves Caves

I recall the U.S. Govt. agency that ran top secret clearance background investigations for me was located under ground in a cave somewhere in Penn. ( can't legally say were ) ...

I beleave they were recently "spun off" from Uncle and are a private employee owned and operated corporation with the exclusive contract to provide investigative sevices ( data collection ) for Uncle...

the USG then "owns" all the information.

Company name is U.S.I.S. there are several such "literally underground offices" that I am aware of..... and probably dozens that very few people know of ....

mozel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 01:43 - ID#153102)
@Gianni
What will be the harm to their scrip ? They have the same number of slaves as before, don't they ?

PrivateInvestor
(Tue Sep 08 1998 01:51 - ID#225283)
G.D.

WHat is good old Harry S. saying in his news letter these days...haven't subscribed for a couple years now...I should have bought a lifetime subscription but I figured he would die off if I did and no telling what would happen the the newsletter...always liked the ex-pat section...What is he saying about the market in general, and gold specifically?

GHANKINS__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 01:57 - ID#377358)
Jujube
Keep up the good work man! Can you BELIEVE that Vronsky has given site space to this *F wipe!



Bernie
(Tue Sep 08 1998 02:09 - ID#263100)
John Disney/Scarface
John....where are you getting your information? Was Scarface a relative?

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 02:10 - ID#284255)
Y2K and energy problems
http://universalprosthesis.com/Y2K/pages/industry/util32.html>http://universalprosthesis.com/Y2K/pages/industry/util32.html
http://www.gulfpub.com/wo/archive/archive_98-04/bug-shemwell.html
http://www.cga.ca/PressRelease/Y2K.htm

http://universalprosthesis.com/Y2K/

mozel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 02:11 - ID#153110)
Unverified, But Startling Information for Tax Slaves in the US
YOU ARE A SUBJECT OF GREAT BRITAIN !
Dated March, 5 1998
received Aug, 5 1998
Louis Traffer, Attorney for the "CITY OF HARRISBURG"
in Case No. 5399-S-97, has demanded that Stephen Ames Sr. present proof
and strict evidence of the following:
I, That Stephen Ames Sr. does not have allegiance to the Royal Family in England.
2: That Stephen Ames Sr. does not have to pay the IRS, who collects tribute for the Royal Family in England.
3. That the Corporation known as "The CITY OF HARRISBURG," a
franchise of Great Britain, cannot collect "tribute" because it would be
in violation of 31 U.S.C. sec. 3124.

Louis Traffer, also wants IRS Document 6209, U.S-U.K. treaties, IRS law enforcement manual, placed into evidence, to prove that Stephen Ames Sr. is a subject and owes allegiance to Great Britain and the documents from my court cases, when they took our children, "for reading the Bible without training" to be placed into evidence to show that Stephen Ames Sr. is liable for the UNITED STATES Inc., debt to Great Britain. Louis Traffier, also wrote in one of his court documents, besides the above demands is, that an application for a Business License allows the CITY OF HARRISBURG to open an account in Stephen Ames Sr's. name. Is this not incredible! This case totally exposes that the revolutionary war was a fraud, and that Great Britain owns the United States Inc., and that the purported government assumes that we are subjects of the Royal Family, or rather The Crown. Now for the kicker, after Louis Traffer demanded the above, he is now attempting to move the case out of court and into a special tribunal. This tribunal does not have a judge or jury. It is made up of a panel of Esquires, who are members of the Bar. The purpose of this move is an attempt to prove that Stephen Ames Sr., is subject to the Royal family, so it is going to have to be done in a Star Chamber behind closed doors, out of the public view. All taxpayers, as defined by 26 U.S.C. and, being "under" the Constitution of the United States, have a Individual Master File which is in code. In using Document 6029, which is over 400 pages, there is a blocking series, which shows the taxpayer the type of tax that is being
paid. Most taxpayers fall under a 300-399 blocking series, which 6029
states is reserved but, by going to the BMF 300-399, which is the
Business Master File in 6209, it shows only businesses are liable while
working for the government. Prior to 1991, this was U.S./U.K. Tax Claims,
meaning taxpayers are considered a business and involved in commerce and
are held liable for taxes via a treaty between the U.S. and the U.K.,
payable to the U.K. The Form that is supposed to be used for this
is form 8288, FIRTPA-Foreign Investment Real Property Tax Account. The
8288 form is in the "Law Enforcement Manual" of the IRS, at chapter 3.
The OMB's ( Office of Management and Budget ) , in the Department of
Treasury, List of Active Information Collections, Approved Under
Paperwork Reduction Act is where Form 8288 is found. It is under OMB
number 1545.0902, which says, "U.S. withholding tax-return for
dispositions by foreign persons, of U.S. Form #8288, #8288a." The
codes have since been changed to read as follows; IMF 300-309, Barred
Assessment, CP 55 generated valid for MFT-30, which is the code for the
1040 Form. IMF 310-399 reads the same as IMF 300-309. BMF 390-399 reads,
U.S.-U.K. Tax Treaty Claims. The fact is that the government has made it,
much more clear that a 1040 Form is a payment of a tax to the U.K..

Stephen Ames Sr. is not a party to the contract ( Constitution of the
United States Article Six and Treaty of 1783 & 1794 ) nor has Allegiance to Great Britain ( Royal family ) and, therefore, can not make payments to, or file anything with the IRS, COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA, etc..

You can help us and yourself, by keeping this case in court by phoning,
faxing and writing to Louis Traffer and Governor Tom Ridge. We will take
care of the rest.
WAKE UP PEOPLE, AMERICA DOES NOT EXIST AS BEING FREE AND NEVER HAS!

Governor Tom Ridge 225 Capitol, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
17120 Phone 717-787-2500 or 717-787-1192 Fax 717-787-4590 or
717-787-8614. Louis Traffer, 10 North Market Street, Harrisburg, PA 17101
Phone 717-255-6523
To obtain copies of the court documents in the case up
to this point, write, phone or fax to: Stephen Ames Jr. c/o P.O. Box
5373, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania [17110] Phone/Fax
717-567-7675 PLEASE COPY AND DISTRIBUTE

Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 02:25 - ID#263379)
@ Jujube
Keep posting , you ARE da man! This *F pre cancerous growth, should ALWAYS be held to account for his words. Same as we hold an Ahole like Bill C. ( though *F wipe is simply a pretender to power... )

What really makes me truly ill though, is not the *Fspot himself, but the way he can so easily dupe the sheeplike, lemming, GHoldBug masses into giving him credibility! It just goes to show that there truly is "One born every minute".

The very folks who pride themselves in not being duped by the Govt. media complex conspiracy etal...are duped by a little wriggly worm of pre cambrain life, barely evolved beyond the sulpherous belch of Volcanic expulsion.

This *F vomit, a thing that has proven to be as disingenuous, and unknowlegdeable a pathetic critter as has ever graced the Kitco airwaves, is now adored by a little group of non thinkers who continue to be desperate for someone to tell them what to do now that their OTHER guru isn't around.

And now the *Fscab, actually has been published on Vronsky's site as an ANALYST os some type!

Pathetic.

Makes me cringe, not so much over the wanna be fascist egotist *F disease, but moreso over the fact that such a lump of steaming.... sh** can get a following.

Frightening.

No wonder the Stalin's and Hitler's come to power.

Well, I gotta go take advantage of tomorrow's "SQUEEZE" before it goe's "LIMIT UP" and locks me out of the Gold market! Cause you can't buy Gold ANYwhere these days you know!

Keep up the good work...... Stuff that guy's "PAIR O' DIMES" where the sun don't shine!



Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 02:28 - ID#263379)
@ Almost forgot
Don't forget to go long the S & P today, it's Puets's Full Moon / Eclipse "Crash" day/week. And we all know that he is indeed the world's absolute BEST contrary indicator!

The Moon..... The Moon..... The Moon.......

ravenfire
(Tue Sep 08 1998 02:33 - ID#333126)
Gianni, mozel - on HK govt. stock manipulation
they say they're gonna liquidate the govt. held securities bought during the ... ahem ... period where they held off the speculators. this is, of course, to be conducted entirely by an "independent body" to manage the govt. held securites and to ... ahem ... dispose of them "as quickly as possible".

http://www.scmp.com/news/template/Front-Template.idc?artid=19980908002857036?=front&template=Default.htx&maxfieldsize=3591

it just remains to be seen whether the market will continue recovering upon sales of the govt. stocks...

Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 02:36 - ID#263379)
@ Realistic........ Pitz Predicts
Why did I see the New Zealand market up 2% today? Hmmm, aren't they the LEADERS of the post eclipse crash wave action?

I'm Soooooo baffled. What to do, what to do. What really confuses me is that Mr. Pits predicted a full blown 1000 point down wave this week ( followed by a couple thousand more points next week ) .... uh that was on Sunday, and then today he predicts the market will open UP!!

What's a sheeplike gullible investor like moi supposed to do when the ANALysts kleep chanin their minds like this?

And then to top it off, the guy states today on K1, that his down move predictions are all coming to pass...predictions he FIRST MADE two months ago in July!

Now does this mean that all his previous crash predicitons, month after lunatr eclipsing , Halloweening, Full Mooning Month throughout 1997 were my imagination? I must be losin my mind.........


Dave
(Tue Sep 08 1998 02:37 - ID#261155)
@that is very interseting Mozel.......but what I think
is more interesting..is that a bill could be presented and passed to Congress stipulating that all current legislation, proposed legislation
withstand a full Constitutional test/review by the Supreme Court, BEFORE it can become the law of the land....and that all laws currently enacted and/or enforced, be tested/reviewed by the Court..... in this manner we might have the rule of law under the Constitution, instead of Rule of/by government entities.....PRESUMING to be passing laws and acting in accordance with the Constitution....

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 02:44 - ID#384350)
Private I - Harry Schultz Letter
Yeah, those life-time subscriptions are valid only for his life-time and he's like 75 or something. The newsletter would go on by his co-workers. His comments on gold this month seemed to be a bit riding the fence, although he always recommends having a core position in precious metals.

The latest Harry Schultz Letter ( +32 16 533684 ) , dated Aug 31 talks about Russia. Says they should have linked the Rouble to Gold, it still could be done, though they have lost most of their gold.

He says that in every market there is too much optimism at tops and too much pessimism at bottoms. Says when gold was at $700 people said it was going to $1000, $1200, or even $2000. Now people are saying $200, Hah. Russia says it would lend gold, not sell it.

Cites facts: In 1997 gross official govt purchases of gold were at its highest levels since early 1980's. Only 5 nations have made significant gold sales in the past decade. France, Germany, Italy are committed to not selling. Says only 1% of all official gold holdings were sold last year. The US continues to hold 57% of its reserve assets in gold. Gold is only 2nd to the $US in reserves of world CB's.

He says we don't hear these facts because the media is controlled by liberals, closet-socialists ( eg, Ted Turner ) & mega-bankers. Bankers don't like gold because it's money they can't create from thin air as they now do, & can't control. Why give away control? It's the same reason Japan's rulers don't want to change their system. "Why give away control?" It's all too simple when you see the reality.

He says, "And gold Will return to currency backing & its price Will rise, probably as a result of a meltdown in the present fiat monetary system, currently under heavy attack."

As to the stock market, he says it used to be a bull market till proven otherwise, now it's a Bear market unless proven otherwise. His in-house leading indicator, Real Market Action ( RMA ) broke down with a double top formation. The timing of his letter seemed to contradict his predictions as the market was tanking right around his deadline. He was expecting the market to rally before selling off to a major low, however the market sold off a bit further than he expected, so his numbers are suspect. I suppose that is what we are seeing now. Says expect investor optimism to return on the rally. 1st rally in a bear mkt is a bull trap. Sees Dow 7348 as key support.

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 02:58 - ID#384350)
Clarification
As of late August, Harry was expecting the market to continue to slide to possibly 7700 before a sharp counter rally to 8625-9040 from where it would drop to a major low.

What I meant in the previous post was that the market slid a bit further than Harry expected before starting to rally, and thus his 8625 target may be too high, IMO.

Dave
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:00 - ID#261155)
@alloidial land grants
WERE MADE Mozel........:- )

Dave
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:02 - ID#261155)
@nytol
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ravenfire
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:04 - ID#333126)
the Philippines considers following Malaysia's lead
http://thestar.com.my/current/08phicurb.html


bullish for gold, yes?

mozel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:08 - ID#153110)
@Dave
How many Congressional sponsors does your Bill have ?

Dave
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:12 - ID#261155)
@ the F*king
State of dave don' have no sponsers and he don support no bills, he jus don give a f*k anymore.....he ain' into savin anyone....they can save themselves or go to hell by themselves......ok..... :- )

Dave
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:18 - ID#261155)
@bad boy.......bad bad boy dave.....
oopps lol...... :- )

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:27 - ID#384350)
Hong Kong, world markets, margin
ravenfire, I sometimes wonder if the Govt was propping up prices until some key insiders could unload some big positions.

Another comment by Harry Schultz which has also been brought forth at Kitco in the past week or so, "Word reaches us from insider mole on Sunday Aug 30 that margin calls & derivative failures have caused much of the damage to both stocks, commodities & the US$ in past week. These are 2 aspects Never, Never reported."

Grizz
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:29 - ID#424394)
Mozel - I am tired of endless repetition of sermons to the choir
Allright already - we got the damn message!
Do you have any particular ACTIONS to recommend that we can accomplish?
Since you are advocating overthrow of the government - perhaps take those particular recommmendations to another forum so that Bart does not get closed down or swamped by government computers doing endless downloads of full-day and long-view posts this week.
SINCE THIS IS A GOLD FORUM - LET'S FIND A GOLD ANSWER AND IMPLEMENT IT!
Any ideas besides the usual lip service about fiat and gold-backed money.
Is there a way to put some action where our rhetoric is?
We often sound like a bunch of park bench spectators complaining about the weather. Does anybody know a cloud-seeding company?

Jack
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:34 - ID#252127)
J*

In my last post the general statement was that that without government edict Platinum and Palladium would find less use worldwide.
The same may be said about methanol and ethanol. Methanol has lowered my gas milage and created occasional sluggish performance. I believe the extra gas that I use has to create greater pollution for that reason alone.
It has always been my feeling that the polution problems if seriously considered would be better handled by more efficient methods of locomotion, many of which can't get by the lobbyists in DC.
As for gold, government policy is a double standard. It is deemed a commodity, but guarded more closely than paper money, yes.

Dave
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:34 - ID#261155)
@Grizz, regulate congressional acts becoming LAW....to the constituion
you brilliant person............

Dave
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:38 - ID#261155)
@ nite
good morning.....what difference does it make... :- ) lol see ya......

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:41 - ID#17077)
@BART....please note that your K-2 is a failure....
...and will remain a failure so long as you allow Liberty and RJubjue and all their multiple monikers from posting here. I am sorry to say this but is true.

Why?

Because they offer nothing but a continuous stream of epithets and threats. They are ( at least in their minds ) somehow allied with the extent American Establishment and they feel that, people like myself are a threat to their way of life. Ironically, they view my ideas as so unacceptable that, in their delusions, they perceive me to be some peripheral gutter-worm who must be totally devoid of access to their hallowed Establishment. Actually, it is apparent to me that they are so removed themselves from this Establishment that they do not even recognize the current evolution occuring within some of its most high-powered academics, politicians, and businessmen. They do not see or are unable to recognize that the Establishment is at war with itself.

Moreover, amusingly, they are categorically schizoid. They hate Bill Clinton ( who is responsible for this country's current status quo and the embodiment of the country's current moral condition ) ...and at the same time, they love everything he and his appointees have facilitated in this nation ( most notably, a bubble stock market, threatening the welfare of many naive, hard-working small investors ) and around the world ( collapse of Asian, Russian, and S. American economies into the pits of despair and anarchy...but hey, to them it's probably no big deal because it keeps prices down in America! Hey, they can run out and buy their Porsches and computers for half the price now. SICK! )

Interestingly enough, I see them as a threat to the welfare of this nation. I am not alone in viewing them as such. In their happy acceptance of the decaying global status quo, they are accepting the conditions that may provoke conflict between these antagonistic, newly deprived nations and America. With their neo-Nazi tactics of epithet and intimidation....with their scornful derision and incessant belittlement of those who oppose their ideology ( tactics I have consistently satired on K-1 and K-2 ) ...they are everything America should fear itself becoming. Again, my hats off to Mr. Puetz for withstanding the type of abuse thrown his way that Southern whites once aimed at Blacks back at the end of the 19th century!.

There is one particular reason I am a lightning rod to their collective hostilities as opposed to the many other posters on K-1 who share my perspectives. Specifically, I write in a very compelling manner and I refuse to be intimidated by them. I hold my ground and the vehemence of my viewpoints.

( Digression: I find it interesting that I cannot post on K-1...yet RJujube can post any number of handles he wishes here on K-1 or K-2...and Liberty can post under the handle BUGal...and so I ask you...are you intimidated, BART? Has RJujube threatened to harm your business, just as he has threatened harm to myself, if you do not allow him absolute tyranny over your discussion forums? Is Liberty threatening to stop buying coins from you if you do not accede to his BUGal posts on K-1? Why am I banished from K-1 and they are free to post there. Please apprise )

Thanks.

F*

Grizz
(Tue Sep 08 1998 03:52 - ID#424394)
Cloud seeders
Use Silver Chloride particles to provide nuclei for fog to condense around to make rain that grows food to provide nutrition for us. They try to turn dry thunderstorms into productive rain showers.

Is there a parallel for grains of Gold.
Perhaps I was mistaken in thinking that enough Kitcoites could act together as seeds to promote productive rainfall rather than just rumbles in the distance.

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 04:09 - ID#17077)
FINAL POST OF THE NIGHT...Asia's New Paradigm???
On K-1, there is considerable bewilderment at the higher Asian markets tonight. Moreover, many Kitcoites believe that higher Asian markets must necessarily mean a higher American market upon today's open.

In the past, this has usually been true. However, over the past year, during the few times we have witnessed rising Asian Markets, we have more often than not seen a strengthening American Dollar.

Now, however, we are witnessing a new phenomenon: daily weakening of the US Dollar occurring simultaneously with rising Asian markets.

What this phenomenon suggests is that Asians are indeed selling US investments and repatriating funds to their native markets. Moreover, in closing their own countries' currency markets ( as Malaysia has done and the Philipines is ready to do ) , Asia is making it very difficult for any capital to flow back into America.

If this in fact is the case, then it is imperative that domestic inflows supplant the foreign capital repatriation. Otherwise, both the equities and bonds markets are resting upon foundations of thin air.

I do not see the conditions existing by which domestic inflows can readily supplant foreign capital repatriation...certainly not for any sustained period of time. We are living in an ultra-leveraged society and the average investor appears to be increasingly nervous and tapped out.

What does this mean?

Essentially, the American markets will probably require frequent government interventions to sustain themselves at these levels. I question whether the government either desires or has the available resources to maintain the bubble markets at these levels.

Once again, I believe Greenspan's comments on Friday concerning America's inability to remain isolated from global economic contagion were made in order to continue the process of dropping the markets ( hopefully, in a slow, orderly fashion ) and at the same time, since the comments were made after close of market some three days ago, then any unusual market weakness this week need not be directly attributed to Greenspan's Friday comments. In other words, Greenspan is trying to avoid direct blame for further market erosion. Yet, as history has proven, Greenspan does move markets ( remember his irrational exuberance statement last year and the subsequent immediate drop in the markets ) and so he seems to have given yet another speech that indicates the Fed Reserve approves further drops in the markets.

Thanks.

F*

T-Bone
(Tue Sep 08 1998 04:09 - ID#36829)
Y2K
Enough already about Y2K, there will only be minor disruptions caused by this problem. Even if I am wrong, which many of you might say I am ( I don't want to hear it ) as I don't need to hear solutions from people carrying guns.

I am happy to talk about gold. By the way Nick@C do you still hold RSG, did you notice they announced a record profit. I believe Preston will be meeting on the 14th re the Bulong purchase. If that gets the nod RSG will add 200 million to their cofers.

Ersel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 04:15 - ID#230376)
A closed mind, gathers no moss.......


sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 04:22 - ID#284255)
Ravenfire
A short order.

The Financial Secretary said the Government wanted to dispose of the positions it had built up in the securities market as soon as possible.

It also said it would establish an independent body to manage the estimated $100 billion portfolio it has amassed since August 14.
~~~~~~~~~

Smells like a bear.

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 04:34 - ID#284255)
No data recorded???
On the Swiss crash black box.

The last 6 minutes or recording is blank.

Jack
(Tue Sep 08 1998 04:37 - ID#252127)
Russia

Some years ago I had a small booklet ( 100 pages ) that covered the thoughts of Dr. Franz Pick, Dr. Pick was one of the worlds foremost gold experts.

I remember that Dr. Pick believed that Russia had 11,000 tonnes of gold in the late 70's.

The Russians were considered astute gold traders and stories that most of that gold flowed out of Russia through the BIS seems like fantasy.

I can't believe that the grain deals with the US cost her such a loss in gold reserves

During that time she supplied huge amounts of natural gas to Europe, while the pipeline was not cheap, the gas flowed. Production within the then Soviet Union with abundant natural resources allowed for the manufacture of both equiptment and military goods and should not have been a drain on gold reserves, while their economy was not efficient it produced from within, using Russian resources and labor. Russia at the time was also a major oil producer, so she had no need real need for foreign oil.

Something just doesn't jive, unless Dr. Pick's estimate was incorrect and I can't believe that Party Officials managed to pocket this gold.

While the Afgan War was a drain, she still produced whatever was expended from within and trade with Cuba was probably more in the nature of barter.

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 04:45 - ID#284255)
T-Bone
You haven't heard a 1/100 of what you will hear on Y2k over the coming year.
It will be in-your-face more and more.

Rather than not wanting to hear about it I would suggest you do some research and see what your Gov't is so concerned about.

Daily I am confronted by people with an attitude of not wanting to talk about it.
These people are so convinced about a nil effect.
And yet in every case they have read zilch on the subject.
Yet they are so opinionated about their knowledge of how everything will be alright.

To not be prepared is to be ignorant.


JIN
(Tue Sep 08 1998 04:49 - ID#206358)
Briefly from me....malaysia stocks and gold market!
all,
These weeks saw tremendous big show in the stage,both currencies exchange,stocks ,metals too!
Klse became 'CASINO"...up 20% in few day constantly and shot down liked the rock this evening......bloody killing field!
Currencies exchange became extremely complicated,no directions and confusing...?!!??
Gold...how can i say!Out of stocks.Evryone try to hold,especially the gold dealers.And the refinery became hottest issue in the town.We guys holding the RM but no place to recovered the stocks.oh.....even the few big coms,such as MOCCATTA, are stop trading until further noticed.
I don't know what is going around the regions....bye then ,stay cool atleast!I'll keep on buying the metal...
JIN

ravenfire
(Tue Sep 08 1998 04:53 - ID#333126)
aye, sharefin
zigackly what i said in my 02:33 regarding the HK govt

and i haveta at least partially agree with ya on Y2k - i've been watching those dec 99 gold calls ... dunno if it's getting too late to buy them... maybe on next spike down in POG? ( gotta stop trying to call these bottoms )


ravenfire
(Tue Sep 08 1998 04:56 - ID#333126)
JIN: what's a MOCCATTA?
I know the big blue chips on the KLSE well, but i've not heard of no Moccattas before. what kind of beast are they?

Mahatdir can't be happy over the stock price collapse - I'm praying the day that they start arresting honest traders for "manipulating stock prices downward" doesn't happen.

aurator
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:00 - ID#250121)
Now, let's count the rulers who have virtue..........I believe I'll have ANOTHER drink (must believe
in something.....


"The Way is to win the people, then win the country. If you lose the people, you lose the country. Therefore the ruler must be concerned about his own virtue first. If he has virtue, he will have the people. If he has the people, he will have the land. If he has the land, he will have wealth. If he has wealth, he will be able to function.

http://www.human.toyogakuen-u.ac.jp/~acmuller/contao/greatlearning.htm

mozel
Neither virtue nor benediction began 2,000 years ago, not even 10,000 years ago. Talk of virtue, vice, benediction and malediction originate at our wit's beginning, the first utterance that carried a symbolic meaning; perhaps one hundred millenia ago was likely a "F* you" or mayhaps "Greetings, brother." Gold, however, was formed in the inpenetrably distant past at the origin of this condensate we call a planet 4,000 million years ago, or so. ( at 15:03 hrs today ) Let us talk of condensate, let us talk of alchemy, let us talk of gold..

Let us unwaste our time with sparring over matters of belief. I greet you as a brother. Namast. Shalom. ( Bring your own herbs when you visit ) ;-^ )


aurator
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:15 - ID#250121)
Mocatta ain't no diet capuccino
ravenfire



Here is an overview of Mocatta from archives d'aurator the URL has expired, it was dated 10/01/97 ( merkin date format )


SCOTIABANK PURCHASES MOCATTA BULLION &
BASE METALS
:: This press release is transmitted on behalf of Scotiabank

Toronto, October 1 - Scotiabank announced today that it has
signed an agreement to acquire Mocatta Bullion & Base Metals, a
division of Standard Chartered Bank of the UK. The deal, subject to
regulatory approval, will establish Scotiabank as one of the world's
leading metals trading and bullion banks by global coverage. The
purchase price will not be material to Scotiabank.

''Scotiabank is currently the leading bullion bank in Canada,''
said Peter Godsoe, Scotiabank Chairman and CEO. ''When we studied
the situation we determined that this was an area where we could
build on our existing strengths and establish ourselves as world
leaders. Mocatta presented itself as a perfect match which would
enable Scotiabank - under the marketing banner of Scotia Capital
Markets - to become a full-service metals dealer.''

''Mocatta's expertise and world standing will enhance our
overall capabilities and will translate into increased strengths for
several areas of our firm,'' said Scotia Capital Markets Chairman
and CEO Gord Cheesbrough.

''For example, Scotia Capital Markets is strong in mining equity
research, and corporate and investment banking for the mining
sector. The addition of Mocatta's global trading operations will
enable us to offer clients integrated solutions across a complete
range of base and precious metals services.''

vrange of base and precious metals services.''

Established in 1671, Mocatta is the oldest and one of the
world's largest metals trading businesses. Integrating this business
within Scotia Capital Markets will create numerous synergies.
Mocatta's strong international industrial consumer base will
complement Scotia Capital Markets' solid bullion relationships with
mining companies. Combining Scotia Capital Markets' presence in the
North American base metals market with Mocatta's worldwide base
metals operations will establish this new entity as a global
full-service metals dealer.

Subject to regulatory approval, Scotiabank - through Scotia
Capital Markets - will retain Mocatta's prestigious standing as only
one of five London Gold Fixing Members, one of three Silver Fixing
Members, and as one of 15 Ring Dealing Members of the London Metals
Exchange.

The transaction will involve a number of exchange memberships
including: London International Financial Futures Exchange Limited
( LIFFE ) , The International Petroleum Exchange, The Tokyo Commodity
Exchange ( TOCOM ) , Commodity Exchange Inc. ( COMEX ) a division of the
New York Mercantile Exchange and ownership of Iron Mountain, one of
six recognised delivery warehouses for COMEX.

''The integration of Mocatta with our existing metals operations
will strategically position us to take advantage of opportunities in
expanding markets such as commodities trading in the Middle and Far
East, mining sector project finance and other structured
transactions,'' said Larry Scott, Head of Scotia Capital Markets
Europe and Global Head of Precious and Base Metals.


==========

I wonder what he's thinking of "opportunities in expanding markets such as commodities trading in the Middle and Far East" now?


ps
This link might still be live
http://www.kitco.com/london.fix.article.html


mozel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:16 - ID#153110)
@Grizz I don't agree with your statements in your last post. Read the Constitution.
Read the Law. Let your conscience be your guide. And you, Grizz, should get a lawyer because a fool like you is going to need one.

Paul Gold
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:17 - ID#21484)
Ravenfire @04:56 re Mocatta
Look at http://www.kitco.com/london.fix.article.html for some info on Mocatta.

Greenstone Gold
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:20 - ID#427265)
ravenfire (the Philippines considers following Malaysia's lead)

Could this be the "start" of the "end" of GLOBALISATION......... ?

Perhaps in 5 to 10 years time, only "electronic gold will ZIP around the world, it most certainly will not be US$'s !

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:23 - ID#284255)
What a gas?
This article is a must read for those that don't think they are at risk. Y2k is a personal problem. It is a gamble to think that it will not hit home. A gamble that has fatal implications.

http://athena.ampsc.com/~imager/Y2k/Chopwater/cw3.html

Cage Rattler
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:29 - ID#33184)
@aurator
Just received "Extraordinary Popular Delusions". Looking forward to reading it. Many thanks once again.

aurator
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:33 - ID#250121)
sharefin
a week or two ago I was talking to a programmer, now spending allhis time with Y2K for Utilities in Aotearoa. He believes that NZ will be ready in plenty of time with electricity. But there could be a problem with natural gas supply being broken, all the pilot lights going out, then the gas coming on before the pilot lights have been reset.

So, we probably got 'tricity down here ( at the far end of the earth, eh Putzy? ) but there may only be a crater where once a house was cooking with gas.

PJR/Lefty
you fellas about? What's your pick on godzone & Y2K?

mozel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:37 - ID#153110)
@aurator There's no escaping the fact gold is a political metal. "gold &
silver coin". In black and white in the Constitution. It's not a toy, not a doorstop, not a decoration. Not part of the aimless, endless, pagan variations of Orietnal despotism. It is bone in the body of Freedom under Law. And for Law, there must be a rule of decision. Rules of evidence, procedure, due process. And a cornerstone of belief. I had no intent to spar with my last post. Merely, intended to make an observation on style. If it was a mistaken observation, I stand corrected.

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:38 - ID#284255)
Mozel
What point to read the constitution?

If they want you it is their choice not yours.

No matter how well versed you are
If they want you away
It shall be done.

They carry the power to override
Even the voice of knowledge.

This is what they wanted
This is what they have created.

And who am I to argue.

---------
Ravenfire
I mate of mine just ditched out of the Dec99 $400 calls.
He had an even split between them and SP puts.

And found that the SP puts were far more volatile.$$$$

His thoughts are to build up capital on the puts
Then roll into the Gold calls
Before rolling into Physical.

If he's fleet of foot and the ball rolls his way.
I'll be sharing his good plays
With a bottle of two.

His plan of focus began with an article I showed him on Y2k.
And some excellent articles on gold.

I admire his plan and have good confidence in his abilities.
Dow down= profits
Gold up= profits
Physical= security.

I would hazzard a guess that he will be set up secure for life.
And I'll be living next door on our Y2k farm.


aurator
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:39 - ID#250121)
Extrapops
Cage Rattler
My pleasure!

PrivateInvestor
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:43 - ID#210420)
g.d.

thank you

aurator
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:46 - ID#250121)
mozel
We are in accord. Gold is political inasfar as it transcends mundane poltics; inasfar as it represents the clarion call of freedom; inasfar as it predates the european colonisation of your country and mine; and inasfar as it symbolises value between strangers.


"Gold was not selected by governments to be the monetary standard. Gold has developed for many centuries on the free market as the best money; as the commodity providing the most stable, honest and desirable monetary medium."
M.N.Rothbard

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:49 - ID#284255)
Aurator
T'is good to be confident.
And I hope such is true.
( I might have to come home after all. )

But before I do I want one of these on my farm!!!
http://www.rt66.com/aaasolar/wind.htm

Blowin in the breeze.

--
Cage Rattler
T'is nice to be gifted by our Aurator@Popular_Delusions
T'is almost an exalted club.

mozel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:53 - ID#153110)
@sharefin Why read about Y2K ? If they want your stuff, they shall have it.

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:57 - ID#284255)
Aurator
http://year2000.epriweb.com/year2000/announcements/testimony.html

This testimony released in June is soon to be followed up with their latest report due mid Sept.

Whether it is more revealing is yet to be revealed.

Latest concerns by the GAO are not good.
http://www.gao.gov/y2kr.htm

These files are PDF's and I will be extracting the info to place on my website.

If you can't wait - have a look.
T'is not good news.

aurator
(Tue Sep 08 1998 05:58 - ID#250121)
sharefin
there's a congregation of windmills ( a clogging of windmills? A tilting of windmills? ) on the hills in Karori in Wellington. The sound they make is incessant ( san cesse, eh Fred? ) and quite sonorously eldritch. Position it several chain from the farm house.

windy

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 06:11 - ID#284255)
Mozel
Fortunately I live in little old Aussieland.

Life is truly different here.

No doubts they can still extract all, from one here.
But first they have to think of that.

I read Y2k for the sake of being aware.
As well as being an occultist in the subject.
( got to have something to do. )

And I shall be prepared very well.

As an aside;
Why read about Law? If they want your stuff, they shall have it.


Seems like both of us are off track.
Perhaps we should just buy gold and not worry.

Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 06:14 - ID#26793)
Dollar higher on expected Dow rally today
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/d1.html

lefty kiwi
(Tue Sep 08 1998 06:15 - ID#32176)
Aurator ( re Karori hills )
I used to play there when a youngster 1950's , lived right beside Karori Park .... learnt to love cricket there ..... bowling leftarm round the wicket . A great place to be a kid . I remeber watching the Springboks at Athletic Park in 1956 .
But to Gold .....maybe we are going back to revisit the low again ...and maybe we will get a very very good bounce on the S&P500 which might even give me enough courage to short it . My friend in the Edinburgh of the South is a Wilder devotee ( Wilder actually spent a holiday with him in Queenstown ) is adamant we are going to see a largwe bounce .

Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 06:20 - ID#26793)
Russia faces a complete collapse of its banking system.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/d4.html

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 06:24 - ID#43349)
Here come the day traders again
Globex indices all up amid much expectation for a DOW rally. This should bring out the morning day traders. Depending upon how the rest of the day goes we may then see a lates afternoon sell off.

Inasmuch as there was a tremendous runup in the XAU last week and ,etal prices have quieted in the overnight market we may see something of a profit taking in the gold sector as traders seek opportunities in the expected to rise equity markets.

All in all something of an interesting day.

Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 06:26 - ID#26793)
Japanese leader says banks should be nationalized before they collapse.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/dt.html

Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 06:29 - ID#26793)
List of Japanese banks and their derivative exposure
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/ea.html

Fred(@Vienna)
(Tue Sep 08 1998 06:35 - ID#185448)
aurator/retired soldier
re Gold-import to germany

tried to check out that problem - still working on it, definite answer latest end of this week also directly to the brother-in-arms. Sir. yes.

In a similar case, a guy tried to enter EU-borders secretly with a truckload of bullion by the custom-clerk. The stuff was not confiscated, the guy was charged with a rather small fee for non-declaration. What I know is - you can enter EU with gold - but you should declare, if you want to leave EU again with it. If you wanna leave without it - well thats what I have to check out - as the duty to pay is called "Import-VAT" - now as bullion&coins are VAT-free in EU what will they ask for? Also there seems not to be any need for protective measures, so in the best of all cases there is no custom-fee or however you call it ( dont wanna look it up in the dachshundordinry ) , no VAT, no nothing, simply free-trade, love, peace and happiness at the customs. As a matter of fact, I have not yet declared any coin, when I reentered EU, I put them into my wallet or cigarette-packs. Them anti smokers at the airport never look in your pack or your wallet and if you are obliged to cough three times they find it enivrez.
Putting them into the handluggage gives even a possibly unhonest action a more honest look. I would avoid to put them into plastic and swallow them, as the last one who tried this with 80 pcs drowned in the bathtube, I think.

To be continued seriously.


Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 06:37 - ID#26793)
Japanese Parliment will ignore the wishes of Robert Rubin
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/bk.html

Fred(@Vienna)
(Tue Sep 08 1998 06:41 - ID#185448)
Corrigendum
1. I said: " In a similar case, a guy tried to enter EU-borders secretly with a truckload of bullion by the custom-clerk"

I should have said: "In a similar case, a guy tried to enter EU-borders secretly with a truckload of bullion AND WAS UNCOVERED by the custom-clerk."

Silly me, spoke Zarathustra.



Speed
(Tue Sep 08 1998 06:49 - ID#29048)
Nikkei is up on govt buying...
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980907/ps.html
Tokyo Nikkei rises over three pct in morning trade

TOKYO, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Tokyo's benchmark Nikkei average jumped by more than three percent in morning trade on Tuesday amid active buying by government-related pension funds in the futures market, traders said.

jims
(Tue Sep 08 1998 06:54 - ID#252391)
Two and one half hours to launch
Well, how will the markets confound us today and this week. ??It seems we are set for a test of 1000 on the S&P and maybe as high as 8000 on the Dow. Will the market actually open up here, or will the Globex gains vanish right before the opening.??? If we open higher will the rally last more than 45 minutes.?? If there is a sell off after the opening will the market mount a second assualt.?? Can this US stock market carry forward beyond a one day jump???.

Now it seems in late August the better minds on this board ( mine not included ) were calling for a rally in the period just after Labor Day then a decline. Well here it is. We have Peutz calling for the mother of all crashes - funny when the rally comes it is not so tempting to sell. Probably has to do with the fact that so many Ive sold in the past should not have been.

And what about the metals?? South Africans still holding on to good gains. Above 1000 again on the ^JGAI. I say the metals don't go up much today but don't fall much either. The stock market - well I bet it opens strong, fades, tries again, and just because I won't be short it end up giving away 2/3rds its gain, then treades irregularly lower for the rest of the week.

RE THE EURO - found this chart which shows the dollar vs the euro - notice the trend - dollar falling.

http://pacific.commerce.ubc.ca/xr/EURfcast.html

Good luck day traders.

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 07:06 - ID#254321)
Max Moseley's Aug newsletter.
All: You should read this if you haven't already. Nice summary of what's happening, claims he did alot of work on reviewing status of the world.

Would be nice if we could get hime to post about this - are you lurking, Max?

My assessment is that deflationary trends are dominating inflationary trends in the US for the following reasons.

Deflationary:

1 ) WJC in trouble now even with his own party.

2 ) Recession looming in US -- markets picking this up.

3 ) World-wide deflation, commodity prices likely to drop more.

4 ) US up to its eyeballs in debt

5 ) Y2k pending.

6 ) Interest rates dropping.

All of the above will either pull the markets down, or destabilize them.

If they begin to drop.

Inflationary:

1 ) US dollar under attack -- many reasons

2 ) AG likely to lower rates, but only after markets go down some more.

3 ) Unions showing more spunk, but still hit hard by cheap foreign labor.

The only way inflation could come to US shores before inflation would be if foreign investment is so high that WJC's woes cause massive foreign selling of US investments -- equity and treasuries. But that requires that foreign investors have a viable alternative. Not too likely given what is happening in Russia ( threatens Europe ) , Japan, and South America.

So -- it would seem that deflationary effects will dominate in the US. There is not even a whiff of inflation in the US right now.

But -- if we go into a recession for a year or so, and AG lowers rates to 'prime the pumps' that might very well trigger another inflationary round -- probably after the markets drop some more when everyone realizes tha WJC is personna non grata with his own party. Just wait till the K Starr report comes out.

What is my assessment on gold investing? Buy on the dips, sell on the rallies -- for a bit longer. Not much longer, either.

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 07:12 - ID#254321)
Malaysia down 20% plus
All: Looks like an up day in the markets, world-wide PPT acitve, with AG saying US rates might go down. Anyone know what's up with Malaysia? They were supposed to be stable. New scandal?

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 07:19 - ID#254321)
Morning Donald!
Hope you had a nice labor day weekend.
Any thoughts about Germany/Brazil now that Russian is clearly not repaying foreign investors? I wonder which dominoe is to fall next. Probably South American -- Brazil, Mexico?
Germany must be getting shaky.

EJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 07:24 - ID#45173)
Which way the markets?
You'd think it would be safe to assume that the US markets will rally today on the "good news" that interest rates might drop. On the other hand, the market may decide that the possibility of a rate drop is a confirmation of a fear that has not yet shown up in the market, that the US is headed into a recession. Even if the market goes up, it will do so in anticipation of a rate increase really soon, like this week. If it either doesn't see one or Greenspan doesn't jawbone some escalation of his intentions ( e.g., from "maybe possible sometime" to "more liley sooner than later" ) then the market will whipsaw right back down again.

This is not a patient or forgiving market.

Gollum, I wonder if anyone's gotten wise to the New Day Traders and are ready and waiting to take their money today.

-EJ


jims
(Tue Sep 08 1998 07:28 - ID#252391)
To JFH re Max Moseley's letter
Do you happen to have the URL for the newsletter mentioned. ??

Looks like no bounce in the metals today - doesn't seem like the traders in the bits have gotten the message that shorts should be covered. - I wonder why. With all the dollar weakness you'd think some of the short gold would be being unwound - could it be the deflatiory trends are so strong - I think so

Buy the dips sell the rallies - yes.

jims
(Tue Sep 08 1998 07:33 - ID#252391)
?? What do the New Day Traders do with a 175point rally on the Dow??
And who are the New Day Traders?? Are they the subject of recent CNBC stories.???

The market is going to go down its just, in my mind, from what level. I don't think the trend is as clear in the metals. An Ocotber retest of the lows, the making of the trough then I can see in conjunction with a marketr decline whether it be sever or not.

lakshmi
(Tue Sep 08 1998 07:36 - ID#26350)
Tuesday after Labor Day is usually an up Dow market
If I remember correctly, the Tuesday after Labor Day is usually an up market in the US, plus the remarks Abbey Cohen made on TV Sunday am, plus Greenspan's talk in Berkeley last week. If the Dow falls today, I would say it is an ominous sign. If it rises, a continued result of the US euphoria makers remarks. Who is Puetz? I see him quoted regarding market predictions ( sun eclipse followed by moon eclipse=negative sentiment, market crash; plus 38 days after an all-time high, Dow crashes ) . I still favor Templeton, Lynch over Cohen--why risk the rest of the year? There will be tax selling in small caps at least, bonds generate 8% total increase per year over historical averages. In the Fidelity bulletin for this quarter, Lynch said "Buy bonds," not what he is saying on the news now. Of course, the Fed could lower the rates....Commodities are down so low already, my guess is the pessimism is about wrung out there. Still pessimism, but the light is beginning to glimmer a bit. When the junior gold mining stocks are down to less than the cash they are holding, down 90%, 95%, I must say I am so tempted to start buying. Plus the major gold mines are really at low prices too! December 31st would be the last day EuroCBanks can sell, right, at least not without the EU Fed's approval? The US Dow market is still too much on the optimistic end of the scale to look attractive....compared to commodities which have seen so much pessimistic selling over the last year and half, hasn't it been? Regards...Also, PS:Can we outside the country buy Malaysia at all now?

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 07:36 - ID#284255)
An excellent reference book. Worthy of a bookmark.
http://members.xoom.com/mspong/

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 07:47 - ID#401460)
Gold
ASIA/EUROPE
SPOT PRICE
September 08, 1998
07:27AM New York Time

Timezone Equivalents
.
Bid
Ask
Change from New York close
GOLD
287.10
287.60
-1.10
-0.38%

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 07:49 - ID#401460)
Gold
Gold ( CMX )
Dec
291.50
291.70
290.40
290.40
+0.30
9/8/98
4:08
290.70
290.40

jims
(Tue Sep 08 1998 07:51 - ID#252391)
Lakshmi
Poor Puetz is taking alot of heat but could easily get the last laugh. I don't know who he is either. He perdicted the end of the western world's and eastern world's financial system last November - of course selective markets, particularly US and Europe rallied beyond most's expectations. Now he'a got a bear call again. If the market fails after this opening he may end up very right. Today is pretty critical. Had the jump not been so well advertised and experienced by two day of Globex trading it woun't be so bad, but up 200 points then down - man that would be ugly!!!

Silverbaron
(Tue Sep 08 1998 07:58 - ID#289357)
XAU Fibonacci Time Chart

FWIW, there is an important peak coming on Sept 19th ( which incidentally is a Saturday ) on the Fibonacci time chart. This date roughly coincides with the crash dates given by several sources for September 17 and 18.

http://tiger.golden.net/laird/TimeXAU.htm

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:03 - ID#252286)
Some Compelling questions

You posted the definitive take on the PGM market. Why do you cry foul to Bart rather than answer the questions? Now that you have spread your wings in the PGM world, we would all like to know where you got you ever so compelling facts that you offer us in a most compelling style that I am compelled to respond to point out the compelling mistakes contained therein. Is this not the purpose of this forum? Are we not supposed to discover truth? Why do you dodge these questions?

If you do not know the answers, please tell me. I have no time to waste on people who dont know what they are talking about. If you do have the answers to the basic questions I posed, please respond in you compelling manner which compels readers of all types to rush and flock to your side.

No, instead you whine to Bart, "this is not faaaaaaiiiirrr." I am focusing on the ideas contained in you post. There is nothing personal in my questions. I am trying to find how you make the leap to, "In order to get American auto sales going again, then one way of cutting the cost of a car would be recission of the laws that compel a catalytic converter from being part of it". How much would the cost saving be? And what needs to be done to change the laws requiring these metals in autos? Since you spoke in a most compelling manner regarding platinum and palladium, I feel compelled to ask on what foundation your compelling argument is based. I fell ever so compelled to do so. By the way, you keep spelling "recision" wrong, even in your corrections, you spell it wrong. I felt compelled to tell you of this.

Being compelling is not an end to itself. We are here to exchange ideas. If these ideas of which you so compellably write are base on a foundation of shaky facts, or no facts at all, we need to know this. Otherwise, we would all be fooled by your compelling style that you actually know what you are talking about.

PS -
US markets will open higher today, once again proving you are in over your head, in a very compelling fashion, I do believe. Oh, yeah, you also stated that Greenspan would not lower interest rates. Do you want to retract that now, or when he raise the rates and I point it out to you?



Pete -
I am Jujube, I do not post on K1. ( once by mistake, but I corrected that as soon as I found out. I think you listen to F*Puetz too much. He seems to be a bit paranoid and thinks all posters are one guy. This in another deliberate misinformation ploy and one which you should not be fooled by.

BuGal -
golden eagle could be so much more, but sadly it is nothing but a collection of all sorts of people saying all sorts of things that always add up to the exact same thing, the equities will crash and gold will skyrocket. It is an OK site, for what it is, but it is as single minded a place as any I have seen. F*Puetz should be very much at home there. I hope he continues in a most compelling way to take the golden eagle site by storm. I no longer visit there, It has zero to say. Puetz, Butler, farfel, they are cut from the same cloth, and most probably the same person. Just trying to sell more newsletters.

6pak
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:03 - ID#335190)
September 8, 1998

Russia forex reserve rise needs intnl help-Dubinin

MOSCOW, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Russia can only increase its gold and foreign exchange reserves with international help, former central bank chairman Sergei Dubinin said on Tuesday.
"At the present time, this is possible only with the assistance of the world community," Dubinin told reporters. Russia's Acting Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin and other officials have spoken recently of doubling the central bank's reserves as part of a new plan to support the rouble.

ravenfire
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:04 - ID#333126)
aurator, paul gold, sharefin
aurator + paul gold - thanks for the info on Moccata ( they still sound like a coffee company to me though...hehe... much more power in reality, I guess )

sharefin - I'll take my chances on those futures - still keeping some small bit of dry powder ... haven't committed to those S&P or Dow puts ...yet. and missed out on 10-15% increase in Aussie gold miners for not following Nick@C's advice ( though there's those warrants I bought today... )

time will tell. my investments so far have been junk. may $50 oil and $500 gold be upon us before the new millenium :- )

ravenfire
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:08 - ID#333126)
more on Malaysia
tomorrow the Clob market in Singapore opens for the final week of trading Malaysian stocks ( Mahatdir has decreed that only the KLSE shall do lawful exchanges of Malaysian listed company stocks ) - should prove interesting, especially if there's fireworks in NY tonight

http://business-times.asia1.com.sg/2/msimamk.html


Mahatdir still believes in the free market! ( uhuh. indeedy. right. )

http://business-times.asia1.com.sg/2/focus99.html#free

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:14 - ID#35571)
@jims
I guess the New Day Traders aren't so awfully new, there have always been day traders around, but a couple of things in the last year or two have made them a much more significant factor in the markets than ever before.

1 ) The internet has made it much more possible to do "desk trading". One no longer has to call their broker to see what's up. One can even place trades on a moments notice from home or office.

2 ) The cost of a trade is very low, eight dollars or less regardless of size. Day traders can and do make hundreds and thousands on a price move of a fraction of a point.

Many of the price moves we see, up or dow 150 points or more in just a few minutes, are being generated by these schools of pirahna respond en mass to a news item or a recommendation from a day trader news letter. Many of these moves get ascribed to the "PPT" or the "sell program".

On a day like today where it is virtually guaranteed the market should be up in the morning based on good overnight news and positive Globex indexes there will be a day trader feeding frenzy. The market may rise 150 or 200 points or more within an hour of opening ( or much more quickly than that ) . If the market then settle out and doesn't move much for the rest of the day, you'll see a big sell off in the late afternoon and shortly before close as the daytraders exit for the day.

On a day when the market can be seen to start down, they'll jump in on the short side and then you'll see action by the "PPT" in the late afternoon and shortly before close.

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:15 - ID#252286)
F*Puetz is compelled to whine

Bart himself posted on this very site, that the first four netiquette rules will not be enforced here. I think he intended on having K2 be a place, away from the advertisers, that people can discuss matters in a more compelling manner. I have simply taken him at his word. If the rules have changed, I would like to be notified so I may modify my behavior. If the rules have not changed, than quit your whining to Bart. You make the proclamations, I simply want to know on what facts they are based. This is a worthy pursuit.

No more of your crybaby whining. Bart will not give you the facts you lack. You are standing on a foundation you built yourself. If it is rotten, we will know soon enough. When you fall through the rotting floor, into the muck below, we will all be compelled to say, " Oooooooohhhh, but he compelled me so!"

Thanks

J*

6pak
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:15 - ID#335190)
Imagine @ Mexican private banker's may have made bad loans. And the taxpayer must pay ??????
September 7, 1998

Mexican congress appoints Canadian to audit bank bailout fund

MEXICO CITY ( AP ) -- Mexico's congress on Monday appointed Canadian consultant Michael Mackey to audit Mexico's Bank Savings Protection Fund, which assumed $55 billion of bad debt during the 1995 banking crisis.

Congress has demanded an audit of Fobaproa, as the fund is known, amid accusations that the bank bailout was marred by mismanagement and corruption. President Ernesto Zedillo wants to consolidate Fobaproa liabilities into public debt.

Mackey will be paid $400 an hour, and his assistants will be paid about $90 and hour and up, Deputy Fauzi Hamdan Amad of the National Action Party told a news conference. He declined to predict the total cost.

Mackey said he hoped to finish the audit "as soon as possible" but declined to give a date. Most congressmen don't expect the audit to be completed before early 1999.

The audit team will look at several hundred of the largest non-performing loans, made by private banks but assumed by the federal government after the 1994 peso devaluation.

Critics have charged that many of the loans were made improperly, and that some businessmen over-valued collateral guarantees on the credits.


Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:17 - ID#35571)
@EJ
I don't know, but I think I might start looking for something to go short on a little after noon if conditions look right. Close out just before close. We'll be the New Half-Day Traders.

jims
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:18 - ID#252391)
S&P UP past 1000
This is the mother of all openings - I have to believe its a set up for a dump by day's end. My on line broker can not be reached - good enough reason to sit tight.

jims
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:25 - ID#252391)
Gollum
I think somebody is going to get hurt with all this gyration, and I don't think it will be those that sell the SPY between 101 and 105 or the S&P between 1010 and 1050.

There aren't too many old day traders.

ravenfire
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:29 - ID#333126)
has anyone posted these yet?
http://cnnfn.com/hotstories/economy/9809/08/russia/

Ruble continues slide. trading halted


http://cnnfn.com/hotstories/economy/9809/07/g7_pkg/

UK calls "special" G7 meeting ( very interesting when the big boys admit something's wrong )


http://cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/09/07/starr/

Klinton's lawyers want to delay Starr's report so they can pore over it

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:33 - ID#347267)
@jims
Mind sharing the name of your on-line broker? Good to know which ones are accessible on busy days. Waterhouse worked fine for me 'bout 10 minutes ago. No problem either with Fidelity.

6pak
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:34 - ID#335190)
Russia & additional $20 billion (Gold & $'s)@ On deposit at another country's Central Bank.
7 SEPTEMBER 1998 ............RUSSIA

*CENTRAL BANK CHAIRMAN OFFERS TO RESIGN
Sergei Dubinin on 7 September tendered his resignation, citing as one reason for his decision the State Duma's delay in passing a number of "vitally important" draft laws on banking, ITAR-TASS reported. Two days earlier, Central Bank Deputy Chairman Andrei Kozlov resigned. Kozlov was responsible the Central Bank's relations with other banks, as well as for the controversial scheme in which six top banks were forced to transfer all private individuals' bank deposits to Sberbank ( see "RFE/RL Newsline," 4 September 1998 ) . "Russkii telegraf" reported on 4 September that acting Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin overruled the objections of Central Bank officials when he agreed to the basic principles for introducing a currency board. Under a currency board system, the role of the Central Bank would be diminished. JAC

*RUSSIA TO SEEK MORE FOREIGN AID...
Acting Prime Minister Chernomyrdin said in a 6 September national television address that Russia needs to double its gold and hard-currency reserves "hopefully through the assistance of the global financial system." Acting Minister of the Economy Yakov Urinson told "Vremya MN" in an interview published the next day that Russia might have to borrow up to $20 billion, kept on deposit in the central bank of another country, in order to carry out the idea of establishing a currency board for Russia. Under a currency board system, new units of money cannot be issued unless they are backed 100 percent by reserves of another, more stable currency. In his speech to the Federation Council on 4 September, Chernomyrdin implied that his government will adopt a currency board system, although he never actually used the words "currency board" ( see "RFE/RL Newsline," 4 September 1998 ) . JAC

*BUT PRESS, IMF SKEPTICAL
"Russkii telegraf" reported on 4 September that an exchange rate of 30 rubles to the dollar would require a currency board with $12 billion in reserves and a money supply of 370 billion rubles. But according to "Izvestiya" the next day, the nation's reserves are "currently negligible," and the newspaper called a possible agreement with the West "on urgent currency assistance too good to be true." IMF Managing-Director Michel Camdessus said on 4 September that a currency board for Russia, though a good idea, is not appropriate under current conditions. JAC

**RUSSIA TO OPT FOR ARGENTINA'S QUICK FIX?

*REGIONS ENGAGE IN PANIC-BUYING
ITAR-TASS reported on 7 September that regions are experiencing shortages of key goods, as citizens have begun hoarding non-perishable items. For example, in Nakhodka and Ufa, consumers are purchasing sugar, flour, and other foods in large quantities. In Vologda, a local gasoline station claimed that it has only enough gasoline to last two days. Grocery stores in Murmansk have run out of salt, cereals, cooking oil, and other staples. JAC

http://www.rferl.org/newsline/fulltext.html

jims
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:48 - ID#252391)
To MTN BEAR
The one on line broker I was trying to access is Datek. A few minutes ago I was able to easily get on where my previous attempts had failed. I think they do house cleaning about 1-2 hours before the opening on Monday as I have had the problem before. I have noticed that it's wise to check to make sure the enterred orders are still in a few minutes before the opening as there have been times when they disappeared.

Actually, I'm pretty happy with Datek. Drives me crazy anymore to have to use phone systems or talk to an order taker. Gosh, how did we do it back there in the good old days????

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:50 - ID#252286)
O My Golly

I am compelled to correct a misstatement by me. Would you like me to point out that Greenspan will lower interest rates when he lowers them, or will you retract your insistence that he will NOT lower rates? I guess I said lower, and then raise, in my previous post. As F*Puetz is like to say, Oooooooooops.

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:50 - ID#35571)
@jims
No there aren't too many old ones, thats for sure.

Another thing about the day traders is that they don't particulary care whether it's a bull market or a bear market. They just look for very short term up or down. An awfully lot of these guys were playing Nintendo games not too long ago.

What's going to kill a lot of them is jumping in the market on an awesome expected up or down day like today, and then having the net go down so they can't reach their brokers in the afternoon. Maybe then they learn the beauty of limits and stops.

jims
(Tue Sep 08 1998 08:53 - ID#252391)
Dow Globex got up 200 points
but has pulled back - S&P got up to 1020 and is at 1000. Gold down 40 cents silver down 5 cents oil down 42 cents or was it 24 cents.

BONDS NOW DOWN ! 1/2 point!!!! after making new all time highs on globex

John Disney
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:00 - ID#24135)
Please ..

Bernie .. not so loud..

jims
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:00 - ID#252391)
Gollum
I understand and agree with your thoughts and observations, but what I can't figure is how very many will succeed buying this kind of move. Everything will open about on its high, there won't be much follow throght beyond that. It'll be an up opening, a pull back, a rally to the highs then a fade to the close and a down week.

I have my bets or some of them placed - go off now and pay attention to the wife - the more pertictable female in my life.

Nick@C
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:01 - ID#386245)
T-Bone
Yes, mate. I am heavily into Resolute ( RSG ) . Couldn't believe when they hit .94 last week, so I loaded up. Already up 27% and they haven't even started. Will easily top $2.00 if Preston sale goes ahead. Even if it doesn't, they'll have one of the cheapest lateritic nickel deposits in the world. Also producing heaps of low-cost gold ( @200/oz if memory serves me right ) . Also have bought all of BHP's African interests, so if cashed up will bring on another 200,000 oz of gold very quickly. If they're smart they'll buy out a few juniors at these giveaway prices. cheers, Nick

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:02 - ID#401460)
Gold
NEW YORK
SPOT PRICE
September 08, 1998
08:58AM New York Time

Timezone Equivalents

.
Bid
Ask
Change
Low
High
GOLD


285.60
286.10
-2.60
-0.90%
285.60
287.30

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:03 - ID#35571)
The Art of day trading
http://www.futuresmag.com/library/daytrade97/day12.html

Nick@C
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:03 - ID#386245)
John
See email about MIM.

panda
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:06 - ID#30126)
@CRB
CRB is up to 202+ but all of the precious metals are off. Copper is up. Go figure.

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:07 - ID#35571)
Frown
This ones a little better:
http://www.futuresmag.com/library/daytrade97/daytrdcontents.html

panda
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:08 - ID#30126)
@???
Are they trying for a limit up close on the Globex?????

Highhopes
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:14 - ID#404410)
Enthusiasm waning today
Can't sense the bullishness today that so many were exhibing last week and over the weekend - talking about gold.

kitkat
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:19 - ID#208393)
Russian banking system faces collapse
Tuesday September 8, 5:13 am Eastern Time
Chubais says Russian banking system faces collapse.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/d4.html

6pak
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:23 - ID#335190)
USofA & Germany, Global Elite @ International Corporate Finance
September 8, 1998

FOCUS-Deutsche Bank committed to U.S. purchase

FRANKFURT, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Deutsche Bank AG on Tuesday signalled it was taking a more aggressive approach in its planned U.S. expansion, saying it must make an acquisition and could do so quickly if it found the right partner.

Deutsche chief executive Rolf Breuer

Breuer's comments are likely to stoke speculation that Deutsche may join forces with a top player such as Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers or PaineWebber.

Breuer also rejected as "total rubbish" rumours that the bank was suffering trading losses as a result of the Russian financial crisis.

But analysts predicted that Deutsche, with a credit exposure of 1.35 billion marks to Russia, will have to increase its loan loss provisions for Russia and that the emerging markets crisis was bound to hurt its 1998 earnings.

Referring to Deutsche's acquisition plans, Breuer said any deal would be similar to the share swap used in the merger of Daimler-Benz AG and Chrysler Corp., enabling Deutsche to pay for an acquisition in shares rather than cash.


In addition, Deutsche may also have been spurred by reports that Frankfurt rival Dresdner Bank AG was in exploratory talks to buy PaineWebber Group Inc., the fourth-largest U.S. brokerage firm.

Breuer on Tuesday sought to reaffirm Deutsche's commitment to join the global elite in corporate finance, mergers and acquisitions, saying investment banking would increasingly become a "supporting pillar" for the group despite turmoil in financial markets.
http://www.freecartoons.com/ReutersNews/GERMANY-DEUTSCHE.html

The Hatt
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:25 - ID#374348)
Highhopes/ You are quite right!
However the day is not over till the fat lady sings the blues... Unlike paper traders we hold our positions waiting for the ppt to finally give up and believe me they will!

Goldteck
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:31 - ID#431200)
Stock markets around the world generally rose Monday
Tuesday, September 8, 1998
Hints of Lower U.S. Interest Rates Lift Foreign Stocks
Markets: Greenspan's remarks touch off a global rally. The Japanese yen hits a four-month high against the dollar.
From Times Staff and Wire Reports

Stock markets around the world generally rose Monday in a rally buoyed by Federal Reserve Board chief Alan Greenspan hinting that the Fed may consider lowering U.S. interest rates. U.S. financial markets were closed for Labor Day.
Today global investors' attention is likely to be riveted on Brazil to see whether a 50% hike in interest rates imposed late Friday will be enough to restore confidence in Latin America's biggest economy and stem a headlong flight of capital that totaled an estimated $6 billion last week.
Greenspan's remarks on Friday seemed to open the door to lower U.S. rates if the global financial situation continues to deteriorate and if U.S. inflation remains under control. The net effect was a welcome confidence boost for markets after a week of nervousness and bad news. Analysts said lower U.S. interest rates would give investors more reason to take on foreign investment risk.
"There is obviously a great sense of relief that the bias for tightening rates in the U.S. has been removed," said Ian Williams, strategist at Panmure Gordon in London. But, citing the U.S. markets' holiday, Wiiliams said he doubted there is a "whole lot of conviction" behind Monday's rally.
Investors also noted the lack of a resolution to the political stalemate in Russia as another reason to temper the celebration over Monday's rally. For that reason, many see no immediate end to the turmoil in global equities.
"[Monday] it was technical. After a lot of losses, there's naturally a counter-reaction," said a trader in Frankfurt. "It could continue for a few days. That's my scenario."
London's stock exchange closed up 3.5% on Monday and Germany's largest bourse, in Frankfurt, gained 1.6%.
In Asia, Japan's benchmark Nikkei-225 stock average was higher in early trading today after adding 5.32% Monday for its second-largest point rise this year.
The widespread rally in Japan and in Asian stocks in general served to lift the yen to a four-month high against the dollar. The dollar fell as low as 130.50 yen, its lowest since April 24, from 133.57 late Friday in New York. The greenback also fell to its lowest level against the German mark since last November.
Elsewhere in Asia, Hong Kong's Hang Seng index leaped 7.86% on Monday after the government moved to boost liquidity in the banking system. Malaysian shares, boosted by new government currency controls, shot up 22% and Korean shares gained 4%. Those results helped boost European shares, easing concerns about a widening global slowdown.
Stocks generally rose as well in Latin America, where last week the contagion caused by the Russian devaluation wrought havoc, prompting massive stock sell-offs.
"We reviewed our policies last week and decided it's time to be a more aggressive buyer," said Andres Ronchiatto, fund manager at Banco Quilmes in Caracas, Venezuela. "Some of these prices are very reasonable."
The Mexican Bolsa index rose 4.9% Monday after three days of losses. Indices in Chile, Argentina, Peru and Venezuela also gained.
The Mexican peso continued to lose ground against the greenback, however, closing at 10.26 to the dollar, down from Friday's close of 10.22. The peso has lost 15% in value over the last two months.
Colombia's stocks were left out of the rally, however, falling 1.1%, as investors worried that the government's tightening of the money supply late Friday would cause an economic downturn. Interest rates there rose Monday to 50% from 30% on Friday after the government acted to protect its currency in the aftermath of last week's 9% devaluation.
Brazil's financial markets were closed Monday for a national holiday and had not had a chance to react to the government's action late Friday in which overnight lending rates were raised to 29.75% from the previous 19%. The rate hike will result in higher rates for consumer and business borrowers, but presumably will help to keep cash in the country.
"Now the foreign investor will rethink whether it is worth selling Brazilian debt at banana prices and the price of our Brady [bonds] will improve," Francisco Lopes, the Central Bank's monetary policy director, told the O Estado de Sao Paulo newspaper.
The Brazilian government acted after it spent $6 billion in foreign reserves just last week alone to protect its currency, the real, the Jornal do Brasil reported. Brazil has spent $18 billion of reserves since Aug. 1 to defend its beleaguered currency, the paper said.
The newspaper quoted President Fernando Henrique Cardoso as saying that foreign reserve losses forced the government to act in imposing higher interest rates, a measure that will be rescinded once foreign reserves are replenished. He reiterated that there are no imminent plans for a devaluation or other fiscal adjustments.

Nick@C
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:32 - ID#386245)
Those who missed out on gold's recent rise
will hopefully take advantage of this correction. Going back a bit to gather strength for another run at 290. All MVHO, of course. Nite all.

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:33 - ID#347267)
Jims
Thanks; had problems with Ameritrade and switched to Waterhouse since had IRA there. Easy to get them on the phone if necessary.
Re mkt; glad I am essentially "flat" ( longs offset with BEARX and RYURX ) on days like today. May sell some of the longs today.

Richard Burke
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:37 - ID#411318)
WMT Puts
Mtn Bear: The S60 puts were up 33% at one point on Friday - ended just slightly up. WMT is halted this AM. Any ideas?

The Hatt
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:41 - ID#374348)
LINE UP ONE AND ALL THE PPT HAS LOTS OF PAPER FOR SALE!
Have always felt sorry for the average Joes being sucked into buying more paper and buying paper is what they are doing! CNBC have done their job however the day will come when these promoters in disguise will get theirs.

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:42 - ID#35571)
DOW +200
In the first nineteen minutes. I guess they've got their sights set higher than the moon, Mars?

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:44 - ID#35571)
Dow +267
Jupiter?

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:46 - ID#35571)
DOW +299
What's the world record?

6pak
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:46 - ID#335190)
All is well @ Not to worry eh!
September 7, 1998

Economy on the fence between U.S. and global forces

If the U.S. economy continues to weaken because of the Asian crisis and troubles in Latin America, that would seriously impact Canada, which ships 80 per cent of its exports to the United States.

Still, there's no sign of a looming recession, insists Rosenberg.

"We believe Canada will weather the storm primarily because the U.S. will do so," said Rosenberg. "It takes a lot to push the U.S. locomotive into reverse -- probably more than imported deflation from Asia."
http://www.freecartoons.com/BizTicker/CANOE-wire.Economic-Uncertainty.html

Richard Burke
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:51 - ID#411318)
DOW
Gollum: resistance at 7975 and 8190 - if latter broken watch out.

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:54 - ID#252286)
@BART....please note that your K-2 is a failure

...and will remain a failure so long as you allow F*Puetz and all his multiple monikers to post here ( a better grammatical construct that F*Puetz version ) . I am sorry to say this but is true. Why? Because he offers nothing but a continuous stream of blunders and mistakes which he will cram down the collective throat without a single fact to back up his assertions. Ironically, he views my ideas as so unacceptable that, in his delusions, he perceives me to be some peripheral gutter-worm who must be totally devoid of access this site of truth. He would rather shut me up than back up his arguments with facts.

Actually, it is apparent to me that he is so removed from reality, that he does not even recognize the current evolution occurring within some of Americas most high-powered academics, politicians, and businessmen. He does not see, or is unable to recognize, that the Establishment is a-okay and okey dokey, and that people have never been better off than there are today.

Moreover, amusingly, he is categorically schizoid as his words and spitting diatribes continuously prove. He loves Bill Clinton ( who is NOT in any way responsible for this country's current status quo and the embodiment of the country's current moral condition )  Interestingly enough, I see him as no threat to anything, as his words and opinions prove he doesnt have a compelling clue.

With his neo-Nazi tactics of epithet and intimidation.... with his scornful derision and incessant belittlement of those who oppose his ideology ( tactics I have consistently satired on K-1 and K-2 ) ...he is everything America should fear itself becoming. Again, my hats off to Mr. RJ for withstanding the type of abuse thrown his way by petty racists like F*Puetz..

There is one particular reason I am a lightning rod to his collective hostilities, as opposed to the many other posters on K-1, who share my perspectives. Specifically, I write in a very compelling manner and I refuse to allow people to post opinions stated as fact without the facts to back them up.. I hold my ground and the vehemence of my conviction that, whenever he posts garbage bereft of facts, I will point them out.

( Digression: I find it interesting that F*Puetz accuses Bart being intimidated by me. This seems to be the grandest insult to Bart of them all. I can be 404ed at any time. Yet Bart has stated that K2 is a place where we can speak out minds. I am speaking my mind, and attempting to discover the facts supports some very categorical statements made on this forum. All F*Puetz can do is cry, and whine, and run to Bart to say it all is not fair. This proves that F*Puetz is a weak man and cannot stand up for himself. Particularly when caught in a lie, or when caught spouting off all sorts of facts that he has not verified or that have no basis in reality )

Thanks

J*

Silverbaron
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:55 - ID#289357)
Looks like that's about it for the rally
Also a bearish engulfing candlestick on the XAU hourly chart...

tsclaw
(Tue Sep 08 1998 09:58 - ID#327123)
UP, UP AND AWAY
Your seeing the start of the "Mother" of all sucker rallies. Use this opportunity to remove all long positions and start shorting. That includes gold stocks!

I'm seeing 3 or 4 days of this rally and then a fast turn around that will suck up all this new money like a sponge. There will be alot of people wondering where their retirement money has gone not to far down the road...

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:01 - ID#373284)
This was posted Saturday evening...I think it deserves a repost...Lord William Rees-Mogg
is a highly respected individual...this is a scathing indictment of Clintler and I am sure this article will have tremendous impact as time moves on...America is not just the laughing stock of the world...but I believe the international community now considers Clintler a threat and a serious threat at that...what America is losing by allowing Clintler to remain in office is far more than "losing face." Allow the page to load...it is a bit slow...but well worth the wait...

http://www.sunday-imes.co.uk/news/pages/tim/98/09/07/timopnope01002.html?2550902

Highhopes
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:06 - ID#404410)
This forum
Tickles me: One day Puetz is the superstar, then the next day Abbey Cohen captures the same title. People jumping fences everywhere. So which is it? Take a stand one way or the other, but don't reverse it the very next day.

General
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:08 - ID#365216)
Perma-Pak for long-term food storage for y2k/other emergencies
Can anyone recommend Perma-Pak dehydrated foods as a good long-term
( 15 yrs + ) food storage company? Thanks

These foods along with gold/silver and other essentials are part
of a smart household contingency for disaster preparedness.

Highhopes
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:17 - ID#404410)
Lower rates
Lower rates have normally been good for gold.
Secondly, it's healthy to have pullbacks in stocks. Their moves are not usually sustained without some profit taking here and there.
I doubt if Mike Metz has changed his views on gold, just bacause of today's advance. Do you think Prechtor has changed his views because of today?

cjk
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:17 - ID#340262)
Dow Rally
Hurry, Hurry, Step Right Up, and get your equities before it's
to late. - I am very suspicious of this rally to well advertized
when every one expects an event such as this it usually plays
out in a manner thats least expected -cjk-

EB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:18 - ID#187109)
Have always felt sorry for the average Joes....
who did NOT buy paper these last TEN years. To feel sorry for someone who made LOTS-O-CASH is kinda ridiculous.....don't cha think?
away...to watch ABX go to the moon................ ( ARF! ARF! ) ...teddO...
notwearinganyHattsbuthisown






go gold.... ( hmmmm ) ...

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:21 - ID#35571)
@tsclaw
I think you are right. Perhaps even faster than that.

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:26 - ID#373284)
General, Namaste' YES I can and if you email me I will send you some information
which is too long to put here... tolerant1@msn.com

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:28 - ID#284255)
Very strong internals
http://quote.yahoo.com/m0?u

Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:32 - ID#410194)
Stock market crash update
Let's hope nobody went short last Friday at around 2pm.

Date: Fri Sep 04 1998 14:44
THE GOLDEN PROPHET ( ARSCH CRAWFORD PREDICTS MARKET CRASH TO START ) ID#372262:
AT 2:00 PM TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mars opposed to Uranus!!!! Lookin' for 4700-6000 by the end of the month!!!

The Hatt
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:32 - ID#374348)
EB/ You are right as usual!
For a man so right I am surprised that you have the time to post your thoughts for all at Kitco to read...I thought that you would be too busy making money in the markets...... Oh well my money is on gold and will remain there! By the way EB why not share your portfolio with us so we can jump aboard and make lots of money. OR DO YOU EVEN HAVE A PORTFOLIO!

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:33 - ID#373284)
to the fin that shares, Namaste' that site of yours is great and very helpful...I have found
quite a few new and very useful links...an early morning gulp of coffee and Drambuie to ya from the Island that is Long and thankful for good souls such as yours...

EB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:34 - ID#187109)
wow
Dell splits AGAIN.... ( ?! ) It just split in March. WOW. Hmmmmmmmmm. Now is Dell too toppy at 58/shr??
http://chart2.bigcharts.com:80/report?r=cobrand&site=avidtrader&onbad=cobrandsymb&symb=dell&time=19&uf=1024&sid=1564&sec=c&xyz=942266405&s=6161
YOU make the call.
gogold...
away....to w/w


Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:36 - ID#410194)
Stock market crash update
And those who went long at about the same time can close down lots of profits today!

Date: Fri Sep 04 1998 14:51
EB ( Big Lou and the $25,000 query ) ID#230216:

btw...

the DOW - it will crash on Tuesday..........................UP! It is a buy Opp......check it out.

And the USdollar will resume it's climb. Profits are taken, correction is made.........uh huh.

And gold will sputter and cough....


Silverbaron
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:38 - ID#289357)
BAD CASE OF THE D.T.'S ?

When all these day traders run for the door this afternoon.

Highhopes
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:42 - ID#404410)
Has anything changed with currencies
I will remain dubious about the world situation until the world currency situation is fixed. With no central leadership in the world, unless you consider the IMF a leader, and with each country trying to apply its own fixes ( bandaids ) , I don't feel very encouraged.
How can we off and running when the same old problems still abound?

Highhopes

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:42 - ID#347267)
@Richard B (WMT)
Hi Richard. I am short WMT at 60. Rationale huge Double top. See:
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=WMT&d=3m
Will cover if exceeds 63, high during bounce last week. Your thots?

Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:44 - ID#410194)
Questions for Puetz
Please let us know if the effects of the lunar-eclipse are now delayed or cancelled and give us more details about the possible 1000 points drop in the Dow this week.

Also, give us some more clues as to how do you see the "blood in the streets" scenario to unfold?

Thank you.

Puetz ( STOCK MARKET CRASH -- UPDATE ) ID#222167:
Copyright  1998 Puetz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The lunar-eclipse has come and gone early this morning.
Ironically, that's the area of my research that's getting
the most attention these days. Dan Ascini ( Elliott Wave
analyst ) , Robert Prechter ( The Elliott Wave Theorist ) ,
Peter Eliades ( Stock Market Cycles ) , and Jim Davidson
( Strategic Investment ) -- all have noted about the Sept.
6th lunar-eclipse, the 6-week topping-pattern, etc. in their
most recent newsletters. All of this has been positive
publicity.

2 weeks from now, Haines may view things differently. The
6-week topping pattern is now complete. The lunar-eclipse
has passed. The topping-pattern in 1998 has been far
weaker than similar patterns in 1929 and 1987, suggesting
that the coming 1998 crash will be far worse than either
of those crashes.

Right now, it still looks like DJIA 3000 by the end of this
month is a reasonable projection. With the 30% circuit
breaker set at -2600 before the DJIA closes for the day,
it won't take to long to get to 3000.

Next week, I believe the DJIA could fall 1000 points. The
week after ( week ending Sept. 18 ) the DJIA could fall
2500 to 3500 points.

The DJIA has now started the "Panic-Phase" of the crash.
Huge daily declines will become the norm. Panic, hysteria,
and blood-in-the-streets will become widespread.

Regards,

Steve Puetz

Goldteck
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:44 - ID#431200)
Indians sink savings into gold as economy suffers

Indians sink savings into gold as economy suffers
08:22 a.m. Sep 08, 1998 Eastern
By Sabyasachi Mitra
BOMBAY, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Economic uncertainty is driving Indians to their old love -- gold -- but the romance is damaging the nation's sputtering economy, analysts said on Tuesday.
The trade deficit has widened, draining currency reserves, and stashing funds in an unproductive asset is hindering investment in an economy desperate to regain momentum, they said.
Data for the first two months of 1998/99 ( April/March ) show that gold and silver imports soared to $1.11 billion from $139 million in the same period a year earlier.
``This sharp increase in gold and silver imports at a time when gold prices are falling internationally, shows the desperation of Indian households to protect their assets from continuous erosion,'' Anindya Chatterjee, head of markets research at ANZ Investment bank, said in a report.
World Gold Council ( WGC ) data shows that from January to July, India imported 384 tonnes of gold via official channels, up from from 273 tonnes in the same period a year earlier.
The jump in gold imports has pushed up overall imports and widened the trade deficit, analysts said.
Rajan Govil, economist at HSBC Securities, said non-petroleum, oil and lubricant imports, excluding gold, between October 1997 and May 1998 grew by 5.5 percent on a year earlier.
But including gold, the rise was around 14 percent, he said.
``Definitely gold is a major culprit,'' Govil said.
The trade deficit in April-July rose to $3.3 billion from $1.8 billion a year earlier.
``Widening of the trade deficit in financial year 1998/99 is largely explained by the increase in gold imports, which is equivalent to a flight of capital,'' Chatterjee said.
Analysts said a widening trade deficit would undermine the rupee, which has already lost over six percent of its value against the dollar in the wake of India's nuclear tests in May.
India's demand for gold jumped by 33 percent to 458.2 tonnes in the first two quarters of calendar 1997, the WGC said in its latest report.
Gold prices on the Bombay Bullion Exchange stood at 4,200 rupees ( $98.84 ) per 10 grammes on Monday, marginally firmer than the 4,170 rupees it fetched six months ago.
International prices have fallen from around $309 an ounce to around $288 over the same period.
The WGC said low prices and liberalised imports continued to underpin demand. The Indian government last October liberalised bullion import rules, authorising eight banks to import and sell gold in the domestic market in addition to the three state-run agencies.
It has since added more banks and agencies to the list.
But a head of commodity trading at a foreign bank said the spurt in gold imports was triggered by precautionary buying in May on anticipation of an increase in import tariffs.
India raised import duties on gold to 250 rupees per 10 grams from 220 rupees in its 1998/99 budget, announced in June. But the duty hike has not taken the shine off gold for Indians.
Analysts said a sharp fall in exports, stagnant investment, political instability and a fragile rupee had harmed confidence, driving investors back to traditional safe havens.
ANZ's Chatterjee said households were shifting their savings from shares and debentures to bank deposits and gold.
The Reserve Bank of India's annual report released on Friday showed the household sector's investment in shares and debentures as a percentage of gross financial assets fell to 1.8 percent in 1997/98 from 7.3 percent in 1995/96.
Taxes reduce Bombay to last link in gold chain
06:10 a.m. Sep 08, 1998 Eastern
By Anshuman Daga
Reuters ) - Bombay's craving for gold is slowly being eroded by higher local taxes which make India's glitziest city the last stop in the bullion trading chain, traders and industry officials said on Tuesday.
Bombay remains the main trading hub and jewellery manufacturing centre in the world's largest gold consuming nation.
But the direct route for imported gold to its main market is being increasingly shunned and a logistical nightmare is undermining Bombay's kingpin position.
``With alternative centres now well developed, gold is being imported there and then re-directed to Bombay,'' said Nayan Pansare, group financial controller at InterGold India Ltd, a jewellery manufacturer and exporter.
``Bombay has lost its charm as one of the premier bullion trading centres. Business has moved away,'' Pansare said.
India consumed 737 tonnes of gold in calendar 1997, out of which 526 tonnes was imported through official channels and the rest was met by smuggled or recycled scrap gold, according to World Gold Council ( WGC ) data.
Gold which used to be largely imported via Dubai in the United Arab Emirates now mostly comes from Zurich, London and South Africa, Indian traders said.
But high local taxes in Bombay, India's financial capital, have diverted bullion import business to other centres.
The western state of Maharashtra, of which Bombay is the capital, has a sales tax of two percent on bullion imports. Maharashtra also recently doubled the octroi tax -- a levy on goods entering the city -- to one percent.
``With our high tax structure, nobody wants to get into that kind of a bracket,'' said Derick Machado, financial institutions manager at the WGC.
Ahmedabad, in neighbouring Gujarat, has taken a large chunk of the import business, and Bombay buyers have to factor in another eight-hour journey by train to get their gold and avoid paying the taxes.
``Gold which is imported from Ahmedabad will not come to Bombay through the official channels. People do not declare it and so avoid paying the tax,'' Pansare said.
``Since Ahmedabad is close to Bombay, traders import gold and bring it by train or other routes,'' he added.
During January-July 1998, gold imports into India through the Bombay airport totalled 49 tonnes out of the total imports of 384 tonnes in the same period, WGC data shows.
Gold imports in the country through the Ahmedabad airport were about 120 tonnes and Delhi accounted for 98 tonnes, WGC said.
The Bombay Bullion Association has urged the state government to reduce the sales tax on bullion to half a percent and abolish octroi duty.
Makahnlal Damani, president of the association, said many other states including Gujarat, Rajasthan, New Delhi, Uttar Pradesh and Karnataka did not levy octroi duty on bullion trade and had a reduced sales tax rate.
New Delhi, Bangalore, Madras and Hyderabad are among the other centres now accounting for a big chunk of gold imports.
The Indian government last October liberalised bullion import rules, authorising eight banks to import and sell gold in the domestic market in addition to the three state-run agencies.
The government has since added more banks and agencies to the list.
``This is a high value business where margins are tight,'' said the head of bullion trading at a Bombay-based foreign bank importing gold.
``The big tax difference in Bombay is killing the bullion import business,'' he said.





powmain
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:46 - ID#21275)
AG an market
I am a real skeptic about the power to control this market by some oplique statement about interist rates. He will have to back up that statment with more cash than the fed has. I shorted the spy at up 34 on the s&p

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:49 - ID#284255)
General
You'll find some good info on food providors 1/2 way down this page.
http://www.y2knapa.com/familyprep.html

It's a good site for a browse.

Also lots of food info here.
http://www.waltonfeed.com/grain/faqs/

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:53 - ID#254321)
Market Crashes up!
All: Impressive -- makes you think that the dipsters are out in force today. Looks like a field day for the day traders. For investors like myself, I think WJC's imminent crisis will make mincemeat out of the markets, very soon, so I am remaining in cash.

Anyone with a little cash to burn may want to wait for this rally to fizzle, and buy appropirate index puts. The continuing market bear is about as sure a thing as things can get, considering what will happen when all of those market investors find out that WJC is no longer an accepted member of the Democratic party. I doubt there is anything the 'comeback kid' can do this time.

I think a market crash is unlikely -- a crushing bear with intermittent rallies -- as the Oldman predicted -- is more likely.

Charleston Gold Bug
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:54 - ID#344389)
DIVEGENCE between Gold Price & Gold Stocks!
All the precious metals are SO FAR failing to
confirm the stock price movement.

Comments welcome :- )

mapleman
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:57 - ID#348127)
@HIGH HOPES

OK Mr. Smarty pants. You must think you have all the answers. I can tell you that the predictions made here, for the mos part will pan out. The timing will be off on many of the predictions, but the observations are pretty sound. The problem here is that many of the predictions would have come true had it not been for the unprecedented market manipulation that has taken place over the last couple of years.
Seeing as how you get a kick out of predictions, here's amother for you. Bricks that the PPT has been juggleing are getting awful heavy. Dow 5500 by years end.

The Hatt
(Tue Sep 08 1998 10:59 - ID#374348)
Stalling Already????????
Is it my imagination or is this Bear trap already starting to stall! ABX has given back $.40 today of its $4.00 move last week, I THINK I WILL JUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH SURE!!!!!!!!!!!

kitkat
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:00 - ID#208393)
Turn on a Dime Paradigm
After last Christmas I was amazed at how investors suddenly shrugged off the worries about the Asian crisis. Can a few holidays and a bit of the bubbly have that much of an effect on short term memory? Today, it's the same thing. The world currency crisis is ignored as the market rises on expectations of an interest rate drop. What will be the reaction when Greenspan tells them that they misinterpreted his remarks?

From Money Daily....

"Many of the observers that Money Daily talked to said that,

even though the Fed is believed to have adopted a neutral

status at its most recent meeting last month ( meaning it is

inclined neither to raise nor to lower rates ) ,

that Greenspan will resist pulling rates down quickly.

Even after the recent stock market sag, they point out,

the Dow Jones Industrials remain at a higher level than

they were when the Fed chairman made his famous comment

about the market's "irrational exuberance." ....

And a poll of economists at several banks and investment firms

found none who expect the Fed to take action at the September

meeting. The betting on a cut before the New Year was only 50-50."

Goldteck
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:01 - ID#431200)
Fear of fall follows markets' summer of discontent
Optimists say some beneficial things have also happened, setting in motion forces that may extend the bull markets life rather than killing it off.

CHET CURRIER

NEW YORK ( AP ) Fear of fall follows markets' summer of discontent - Hardly anybody is in a mood to celebrate as Wall Street marks the traditional "business New Year" at Labor Day.

It has been a stormy summer in the worlds stock and bond markets. As investors and brokers pack away their vacation gear and get down to business, the big debate on the Street focuses on whether a 16-year bull market has ended.

Without question, many investors large and small have suffered painful losses in the markets recent retrenchment. Wall Streets pivotal markets have been battered for nearly two months. Canadas most important exchange has lost almost 30 per cent of its value since its May record high.

But staunch optimists say some beneficial things have also happened, setting in motion forces that may extend the bull markets life rather than killing it off.

"The average New York Stock Exchange and Nasdaq stock is down more than 40 per cent from its high," says Thomas Galvin, chief investment officer at Donaldson, Lufkin and Jenrette Securities Corp.

"The breadth and sentiment deterioration are quite comparable to those in the 1987 crash. Aside from the current global political quagmire, apprehension is mounting about a U.S. recession next year."

But Galvin offers three lessons from the 1987 experience:

- Sentiment is worse at the bottom;

- Stock market declines do not accurately forecast recessions;

- Individual investors have cooler minds than trigger-happy institutional investors.

To be fair to them, institutional money managers face pressures that force them to think about short-term trends in the market, in a way that individuals with long-term horizons need not do.

Clients of pension funds and holders of mutual funds can pull their money out of a managers care on short notice if they dont like the way things are going.

So assurances about the soundness of the domestic U.S. economy and the long-term upward bias of stock prices provide limited reassurance, and carry no promise that more nasty declines wont occur in stocks.

Nevertheless, once you get past the emotions now running so high in the markets, some important positive things can be said. To whatever extent the bull market was based on what chairman Alan Greenspan of the U.S. Federal Reserve called "irrational exuberance," that excess has been diminished.

Just a couple of months ago, many people thought the Fed might raise interest rates to cool things down. Now nobody expects any moves in that direction, and the talk instead is that the central bank should cut rates.

Or policymakers may wind up taking no action, silently thanking the stock market for having done the dirty work for them. Stable credit conditions are benign.

Already money flowing out of stocks and into bonds has driven long-term interest rates downward - indeed, to their lowest levels in 30 years.

Forgetting for a moment how the situation feels in emotional terms, each drop in a stocks price makes it more attractive to buy and less attractive to sell.

Declines may compound fear for a while, creating what looks like a vicious cycle. But sooner or later the pendulum must swing back, unless you believe the world is headed for oblivion and the Dow Jones industrial average is going to zero.

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:02 - ID#35571)
@Charleston Gold Bug
Price movements in the precious metal stocks have relatively little to do with fundamentals today. The fierce rise in the DOW was driven in large part by day traders. So long as the market holds fairly steady till afternoon we'll see a pretty good sell off.

Precious metal stocks had a monstrous price runup last week. Traders, or should I say day trading Nintendo gunslingers, did some profit taking to get some buying power to go looking for whatever might be most volatile on the upside in the day trading world. So long as the metal prices hold we should see a good rebound in the stocks in the afternoon.

Isure
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:03 - ID#421269)
@ Realistic

Having fun! Hope so ! Can you eat crow as gracefully as you dish out the crap ? A couple thousand times of making your point, really is boring.

Richard Burke
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:07 - ID#411318)
Post Retrieval Problem
Mtn Bear: When I try to retrieve your post the computer tries to access "Yahoo" and says it can not. For other posts, my computer accesses kitcomm and up they come. Any idea what the problem is?

RJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:08 - ID#411259)
..... Erasing last week's losses .....

I believe the fact
That equities are soaring
Is based on the total absence
Of eclipses worldwide today

OK

EB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:09 - ID#187109)
thanks Hatt
for the gracious compliment ;- )

My portfolio would bore even you. I am looooong term w/ my IRA's, keough's, 401k's, etc. I 'shoot' for ONLY thirteen percent over the long haul. I have already done the math loooooooong ago and I know what I need and I have set a game plan loooooooooooong ago. My game plan will not change and you should NOT change your game plan either. But.......DO know that there are winners and losers...........I will do EVERYTHING I can to be on the winning team. And that does not mean I must sell my soul...it just means I need to pay attention and use sound strategies that I have been taught loooooooong ago by my father and grandfather and great grandfather, etc.

PM stocks, imo, are not long term growth. They are VERY speculative plays. I think JD and Nick@C and even GSC would tell you that.

My portfolio does not consist of ANY gold stox currently......NONE. But that doesn't mean they won't ( they will ) . This is why I am here. Not to read all the rantings of cheerleaders but to read sound, thought out, reasoned posts from people who, imo, have made good market moves in the past and will be there in the future to make MORE good market moves. That is all Hatt............. ( wink ) .

Now.....where did I put that plunger?

away....to learn plumbing

ppt

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:10 - ID#373284)
Richard Burke, Namaste' scroll to the top of the page and click on full text and then
go back to the post you wish to read...it will also allow you to click on the link in full...in short mode all you get is an error message...

EZ Believer
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:12 - ID#173262)
Polarbear Thanks for the info. Friday night.

Lucky I found it. Sometimes odd time posts get missed.

DROOY up RANGY slightly down. It seems obvious right now that DROOY does not provide leadership for Rangy. Thats good, because there could be a coat-tail effect later on. Right now is a good time to accumulate. Hope to be adding as you read this.


SSRIF looking strong. Not that the short term is very important but it is a good sign. Wait untill they win the judgement. The cash and publicity will wake up a lot of investors who have followed SSRIF in the past.


Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:13 - ID#35571)
@RJ
I'm kind of looking for a partial eclipse this afternoon.

EB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:13 - ID#187109)
Hatt.....one more thing.....watch out
for the cut&paste king. He will gittcha!

Thanks Realistic. History is a good teacher. AGULP to ya.

away...to work
?


go abx.....arf arf!

Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:13 - ID#410194)
@Isure
I'm asking questions.

If you see other stuff in them, it's YOUR judgment and YOUR interpretation , right?

Right.

( Have a good week! )

HopeFull
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:17 - ID#402148)
USD dollar tanking..........BARTON, who adroitly called the past years Yen
weakness, was looking for a run to 155/$ eventually, has canceeled and looks for move down to 122/$ IF we can get a close below 131.

Any thoughts on where gold will be at 122 Yen/$?

HB

HopeFull
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:18 - ID#402148)
P.S. looks like the gold stocks are gonna make potential buyers suffer....
without an entrey level pull back.


HB

Dave in CO
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:18 - ID#229141)
@la-dee-da-EB
I guess your father, grandfather, and great grandfather neglected to tell you about what happened to those their long term investments between 1929 and 1952. They must have sold just in time, right?

No wait. They told you to be a loooooooooooooooooooong-term investor. Tell us, what happened to your family's long-term investments after 1929?

Suspicious
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:23 - ID#287312)
It looks like this rally may peter out Today even.
I was figuring on a rally to 8200-8300 to peak wednesday or thursday. If this rally fails to break 8200 the market is very weak indeed.

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:25 - ID#254321)
Plumbing?
EB: Now, you don't mean like in Watergate, do you? I think XXXgate is going ot make Watergate look like childsplay. WJC has lost most of his defensive support, and his enemies are circling the White House. He is no longer teflon coated. I also agree with you on gold equities -- at the very least, cry0 must clearly bottom before the 'buy on bottoms, sell on rallys' ends.

What worries me about gold bullion is that demand could dry up intermediate term -- India will no longer be a major consumer of gold very soon -- their markets are weakening. One problem with gold is that you have to have spending money to buy it. Anyone who is broke will be selling, not buying.

I think the new big net buying in gold will come from Europe ( Russian panic ) or for the US -- eventually. Those growing gold coins purchases are an early warning indicator.

It is really tough being a gold bug when the US dollar is still considered the world's backup currency. Notice how much the US dollar has dropped relative to the Swiss Franc? Over 5% so far. I'm not sure the German mark can now be used as a 'gold standard' given their blown Russian investments, and proximity to the lit fuse that is Russia.

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:26 - ID#347267)
WMT chart
Thanks Tol1 for helping Richard. Hope you had a glorious holiday.

Richard, Yahoo charts ain't too great. Try the following site for a better chart; you have to enter the symbol you want before clicking the "GET CHART" button.

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:27 - ID#347267)
Link
Sorry ''bout that.
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/data/_charts/achart.htx

bbl

Selby
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:28 - ID#286230)
Rees-Moog speaks about Clinton
http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/98/09/07/timopnope01002.html?1124027

Richard Burke
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:29 - ID#411318)
Post retrieval
Tolerant1: works - thanks. Mtn Bear had a url near the start of his "more words" and when I clicked the "other words" I somehow got the url.

Earl
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:31 - ID#227238)
Catch 61 and the baseball thingy:
It's reported this morning that the IRS will be looking for the fan that caught Magwire's 61st homer yesterday.

It seems that as long as the ball remains in the park, it's the property of the team. Having left the park, it belongs to the fan. Should the fan choose to return it to the team, he then becomes liable for a gift tax. Even though the fan has received no money in the transaction. The number $625,000 was used to indicate value of the ball. ..... Doncha just love it?

The Hatt
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:32 - ID#374348)
EB/ What is going on!
Got halfway to the bridge and all of a sudden ABX was only down $.15???

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:33 - ID#35571)
DOW +250
Down 56 points from morning highs. Looking very top heavy. The September rally mat be about over.

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:39 - ID#35571)
After Nintendo and PlayStation, then what?
http://www.dol.net/~rave/daytrading.html

Earl
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:42 - ID#227238)
Runnin' outa steam?
Appears like someone needs to shovel some coal under the boiler. The rally is in danger of filling a major gap.

Off to watch EB step into the breach. ..... or off the brink.

jims
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:45 - ID#252391)
EZ Believer & Gollum
Shorted the SPY right here at 100 1/2.

EZ what's the story on SSRIF - what law suit?? Is this a better play than PAASF or SSC? Your thoughts would be appreciated.

EB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:52 - ID#187109)
Dave in CO.........(same ole)...
Ya got me! Good one on ya. :- ( My grandfather barely had enough money to feed the family let alone play stox. Never met my great one. I was making a point. They did tell me to save my money though and invest it wisely. Gold stox are not a wise 'investment'.....or are they? You tell me Dave........where do you put your retirement $$?? Pray tell.....

Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong term Dave.......loooooooooooooooooooooooong term.....but you can continue to buy gold I won't stop ya. More power to ya.

away...from 1929......

livesinthepresentandstudiesthepast

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:54 - ID#373284)
Mtn. Bear, Namaste' had a fabulous holiday...lots of good company...food and of
course...tequila...and since it is now the afternoon...a gulp of Cuervo to ya...

Woody
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:57 - ID#243166)
If the Fed's gonna cut rates why are the utilities UNCH on the day?


AUH20
(Tue Sep 08 1998 11:59 - ID#253260)
Discredited Clinton Supporters
Add the name of Alan Greenspan as the newest member of the clinton administration who has lost all credibility due to his unflinching support of an economic policy whose only objective is to keep wjc in office.

Once a confirmed goldbug, Greenspan had been considered one of the best governors of the FRB until recently.

At this point, the actions of Greenspan are so completely transparent that his objective is to keep his boss in power ( not control ) at any cost to his own personal reputation. Indeed , we can anticipate that AG will revert to the ad hominium practices of former discredited and unbelievable WJC supporters like James ( maddog ) Caravelle.

It is incredible that an honest, intelligent and reasonable scholar and successful banker such as AG would be willing to ask how high? when wjc says jump.

There are still a few honorable and competent individuals in the clinton administration. It will only be a matter of time until they too are forced to support cllinton or to resign.


An economic policy designed to perpetuate a morally bankrupt presidential administration is doomed to failure.

The sad part is that the dreams of every american citizen is being subverted to the desire of a lying, corrupt , reprehensible and selfish man child who alllows his sexual desires to dictate the future of every human inhabitant on earth.


Clinton will be allowed to resign by Jan l, l999 but his legacy will live forever and our children's grand children will be still paying for the damage that he and Alan Greenspan inflicted on every future generation of everyone on this planet.

Makes you wonder what magical power the ex president had over Alan Greenspan. That will be a question for the history books.

LSteve
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:00 - ID#316256)
rebounding?
NEM and ABX both rebounding nicely. Daytraders on the east coast at lunch now. Think things on the S&P will start to retreat in about an hour. Oldman said if S&P closed below 969 then things would be really bad. Got there during the day on Friday but didn't close there. I think it will happen tommorrow.

Go Gold!!

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:00 - ID#254321)
Mexico index Mex.x
All: Looks like a dead cat bounce. Wonder if this is a sign that the US markets are to have a one day rally only.

If gold equities continue to rise, it can only be due to WJC's problems, or AG promise to lower rates. I sure would like gold bullion to confirm, and move out of that two year bear trendline.

EB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:00 - ID#187109)
Earl?? et tu big fella?
otay.

EVERYONE. SELL THE DOW! SELL ALL STOX NOW! BUY GOLD UNTILS IT COMES OUT YOUR EARS!!!!!! STOX WILL CRASH!!!!!!!! READ MY LIPS!!! ITOLDYASO!!!!!!!!!! YOU READ IT HERE FIRST!!!!!!!!!! YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I AM SOLD!!! LOOK OUT BELOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AWAY!!!! TO CALL MY BROKER!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!

IGTIMEEAR!!!!

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:00 - ID#35571)
@Woody
What makes you think the Fed is going to cut rates any time soon?

EB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:01 - ID#187109)
almost forgot...
THAT WAS NOT A RECOMMENDATION!

moa
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:03 - ID#269128)
Stocking up while it's cheap.....
use the dip before the next surge.

moa
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:05 - ID#269128)
Sir Gregory of Bear
has come down from the Heavens to dwell amongst us for a while. I like the bears.

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:06 - ID#373284)
http://www.TheFed.com
The one who lies to himself and believes his own lies comes
to a point where he can distinguish no truth either within
himself or around him, and thus enters into a state of
disrespect towards himself and others. Respecting no one, he
loves no one, and to amuse and divert himself in the absence
of love, he gives himself up to his passions and his vulgar
delights and becomes a complete animal in his vices, and all
of it from lying to other people and himself. --From
Dostoyevskys The Brothers Karamazov


Woody
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:08 - ID#243166)
@ Gollum -- Point is they ain't or the utilities 'be movin.


STUDIO.R
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:08 - ID#119358)
@EBroker.............
Like you were sayin', my great grandmother in L.A., made me drink goat's milk when I was a kid. yuk, yuk. no gulpOs of goat milk to YA!!!!! I forg0t what grand dad said 'bout stox, but I remember what he said about havin' to drink goat's milk. yes, he knew better....uh huh...and just a wee puff to YA!!!

Cage Rattler
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:09 - ID#33182)
Didn't Greenspan say he wouldn't INCREASE rates ... there is no implication that rates will go down.

Earl
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:10 - ID#227238)
EB:
Naw, ya got it all wrong. Now's the time to step into the breach and buy, buy, buy. .... Not sell.

Earl
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:13 - ID#227238)
Studio R:
LOL! You had yer goat's milk. My least valuable memory is of cod liver oil, in large dollups. Mother may not always have been correct but she was always positive.

Marshall
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:13 - ID#293211)
Small Rebound and then Down Down Down

Again
by Robert Warner
 Copyright 1998 by Harvest Trust All Rights Reserved
CAJI News Service - Exclusive - September 1, 1998 - History demonstrates
that after a fall in one month of anything remotely resembling the 1800 point
loss of the Dow, 869 points in just two days, there is always a slight rebound.
In fact you can usually expect some kind of recovery after just about any kind
of drop as investors gamble that the market has reached its lowest point. Their
gamble should drive the Dow up slightly against its total loss. Reality dictates
that they will lose in the long run... big-time.
The political and economic situations in Russia, Japan, Malaysia... almost all
of Asia, Mexico, and Brazil, are devastating. The Russian clamor for the
return of communism, recent Atomic tests by Pakistan, Korea's firing of an
two stage ballistic missile, refusal of Israel to honor the Peace Accords, waves
of international terrorism, and the U.S. strikes against Afghanistan and Sudan
prove that we live in dangerous times indeed.
The New York Stock Exchange is still far above where it needs to be. The
market has been so artificially inflated that it's value is still way out of any
reasonable estimate of the actual value of the companies it represents.
William Cooper commented this morning, "You can reasonably expect some
sort of a rebound but not a 'Bull' market. There will be no recovery... at least
not for a very long time.
"After a few days or maybe even a couple of weeks you will see the market
plunge even lower. Remember that magic date of October 24th. There is a
reason that capitalism has been attacked most often on that date. It is a very
important date in the history of the Illuminati's international
socialism/communism.
"I find it absolutely incredible that the sheople consider all the major market
crashes that have occurred upon October 24th some sort of a mystical
coincidence. It is the anniversary of the so-called October Revolution and the
founding of the Soviet Union... and a hell of a lot more. Follow that date
throughout history and you will be amazed at what you will find; but how
many Americans today give a damn about history?"
How many indeed? Most of the People I know consider history to be
sometime last week.
Directory Of Press Releases

jims
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:14 - ID#252391)
EZ Believer
Tell us about SSRIF

THE GOLDEN PROPHET
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:15 - ID#372262)
THE DOW RALLY IS NOW OVER!
NEW LOWS BY THE END OF THE WEEK!! GOLD GOIN' HIGHER AS DOLLAR TANKS!! BIG WEEKLY VOLUME REVERSAL IN GOLD EQUITIES LAST WEEK SIGNALS BIG GOLD MOVE AHEAD!! BUY THE DIPS IN GOLD AND GOLD STOCKS--CATALYST WILL BE STARR REPORT NEXT WEEK!!! IMPEACHMENT/RESIGNATION TALK WILL HEAT UP AND LEAD TO MASSIVE SELL-OFF OF BONDS AND EQUITIES AND PURCHASE OF GOLD AND GOLD STOCKS! GET POSITIONED NOW!!! EARNINGS WARNINGS WILL NOW BEGIN IN EARNEST AND CURRENCY WOES IN LATIN AMERICA WILL LEAD TO A NEW ROUND OF STOCK LIQUIDIATION!!!!

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:15 - ID#373284)
STUDIO_R, Namaste' and a post Holiday gulp and a puff to ya...have you fenced
off the entire state of Oklahoma yet in anticipation of Y2K or are you still allowing some more covered wagons in?

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:16 - ID#35571)
sigh


SDRer
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:17 - ID#290172)
Tolerant1---A+, wrapped in gold stars! and a BIG gulp to you!
From Dostoyevskys The Brothers Karamazov YES!, YES!, YES!

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:18 - ID#254321)
AG's support of WJC
AUH20: Good points. AG was part of the team to keep popular WJC in office. Now AG has egg on his face, simply because he supported the president. I still have faith in AG and RR to do damage control, but they are now on their own -- they are both quite good at what they do, and undoubtedly did most of their thinking without any input from the president. But Congress may not suppoort them in the manner they were accustomed.

Let us hope that the AG/RR team does not fall apart too quickly with the demise if WJC. I think AG is conscientious enough that he will not jump ship abruptly -- even if he might go down in history of begginning and ending his FED Chairman with a market demise. He risks presiding over two crashes, but I think as long as he and RR stay together, the second crash will not materialize.

Who knows, AG ( and RR ) may go down in history as the few competent non-Congressionial, non-Supreme court leaders in our current government who have kept the barbarians at bay. Who else is showing any signs of leadership? WCJ?, Madeline Albright? Janet Reno? I wonder about Janet Reno's IQ -- she must not be very perceptive to have attached her wagon to the wrong horse. Now she is almost assured to lose her retirement medical coverage -- the very threat that probably caused her to support the president. Do you think she will be accused of obstruction of Justice? Everyone else seems to have got his or her fingers caught in the cookie jar -- so they are excluded, leaving only AG and RR.

STUDIO.R
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:20 - ID#119358)
@cOd liver earl..................
cods crap all over the place....no doubt. yes indeedO, however, the liver oil was always preferable to a mayonaise enema ( my doktor mom's answer to constipatiOn!! ) .......100% guar-onteeeed results, but may have long term sexual phobia side effects...do not try this inside the house. G&P to YA!!!! earlO!

Earl
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:24 - ID#227238)
Studio R:
Gotta call a halt on that one. ..... I can't stop laughing.

RETIRED SOLDIER
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:25 - ID#347235)
Fred in Vienna
Many many thanks in advance for any info you can give to me, when I posted my e-mai to auric I left out an important - so will give it out again.

vtcopr@wainwright-emh5.army.mil hope no one has been inconvenienced trying to reach me, this one is correct. Information is sought from any source! Thanks.

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:30 - ID#269409)
@ Jujube...... Running to "Teachah"
My father taught me when I was young, that running to the teacher, to "Rat" on a mindless, brainless, cretinous, playground bully.... would be totally ineffective and accomplish the opposite of my goal to squelch said bully.

The best approach to such little dicked, small minded, fascist wanna be's, would be to wait for the next unprovoked attack, mindless shove, whatever.....and respond immediately with a swift punch in the face, delivered with enthusiasm.

It worked wonderfully well, and I've never forgotten it. This is what a real man does, defends himself instead of running to Teacher. The weasly cowards like *Fvomit, would prefer to make their attacks and then hide behind teacher's skirts.

This is why I don't believe in censorship in the world of words. Better to let blatant, lying, mentally unstable, pssychotic stupidity... bare itself for all the world to critique, and then proceed to critique it and expose it for what it is. With enthusiasm ! With surgical precision !

The framers of the Constitution were bright guy's. They knew that even the most idiotic morons among us, would be no threat... even if they reached positions in Govt. like Billy C., as long as we all have the ability to expose them for the FRAUDS they are, a la free speech rights.

*Fstain doesn't have the political power of a Bill C., in fact he's probably a janitor someplace ( oops, sorry to insult janitors with this smear, ammend that, he's probably a Govt. dole employee ) . Most likely the *Fwipe has ZERO invested in any marketplace.

But the poor frustrated, penile challenged wanna be, could find no other place where anyone would listen to his pathetic ramblings, so he comes here. That's OK....but why does he then whine to Teacher when held to account for his completely inane nonsense? Sad. "Ohhh they call him, the great.... Pretender....." ( Sung off key )

By the way, your last post was a classic. A work of art. Keep up the excellent work. Truth may not always be pretty, but it has a stark beauty of it's own, that is incomparable. On the other hand, a steaming lump, wrapped in faux pretty packaging, is still a steaming lump, is it not?

Many on these forums seem to want to escape from facts, truth, and reality. They love someone who will tell them tales of the bizarre. Lemmings and sheep, all of em.

Personally, I like reality. I like the truth. Even when it doesn't "go my way" if you know what I mean. Truth is beauty.

I've toyed with the idea now and then, that the *Fscabs of the world are best ignored by real beings of our species. However, eventually I always end up coming back to the same place. Namely, fraudulent lying bags of sh** should be exposed openly in a free society like ours. This is the best defense against ever becoming a fascist totalitarian Orwellian kinda place. This is the best way to avoid the "doublethink" of idiots who play their pipering flutes and try to get sheep to follow.

Keep posting Jujube. It's not beneath you as some would say. Bullsh**, must ocassionally be scraped, even off of the finest boots, when we walk in the pastures of life.

STUDIO.R
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:32 - ID#119358)
@T#1......The Run o' 99...............
Yes, we will be gathering@Fort Smith, Ark. come December for the great Land Run o' 99....you are cordially invited to attend!!! You will be able to lay claim, should you elect to do so, on 160 acres of overbaked rocks and thirsty rattlers.

Don't bring no money... @da'run.office you will be issued a pre-63 chevrolet, a jug o' shine, a glock, a riot shotgun and a rope. Most of the smarter folks will just take their chevy and head on over to Memphis. But you can come on in if you ain't got any better plans......G&P to YA!!!!

Marshall
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:34 - ID#293211)
Lets Plan Escape from the Economic TATANIC Collectively(Golden Prophet)
We should develop a core recommendation plan for all personnel who will attempt to jump ship to ease confusion. to

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:42 - ID#254321)
Fayetteville, AR?
Studio R: I would have thought that the native Arkansan types might be headed to Washington, DC for a little country justice. Remember that famous hangin judge Roy Bean? Also another Arkansan. Not all Arkansans were on the shady side of the law.

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:43 - ID#35571)
DOW +219
Lots of nines and eights today, 9/8/98, sorta reminds me of 1/1/00 in a way. Almost one oclock. Day traders coming back from lunch....

lakshmi
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:46 - ID#26350)
Al Greenspan
I would not lump him in with the Clintonista crowd. Clinton supported Greenspan by re-appointing him. AG may not be perfect, but who would be better? Imagine if one of the Clinton chums were in there what damage could be done. If you ferret AG out he always comes back to gold, even if it doesn't make the headliners in the papers. In Berkeley last week AG did say he would lower the rates if needed, although prior to that he said he was more inclined to raise, not lower. AG has always been a man of honor, unlike Clinton. Al Gore will be better and Clinton is purely a product of the Democratic Party. As Party sentiment turns, surely Clinton will be forced to resign--it is all he knows, conform to party sentiment. Without the party, he has no profile, no ability, etc.
Someone posted about India. Of interest is that the Indian economy is protected by their laws currently in place from the storm that has been hitting neighboring nations. I don't see their enconomy tanking or gold sales and/or purchases decreasing there in the short or long-term. They seem wise to me in purchasing what they can hold at home--witness Russians with no bank access to their holdings period. Safes in the closet don't belly up!

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:46 - ID#254321)
Oops -- Fort Smith.
Sorry! Only a few miles apart. Well -- you get the point anyway. I think come this November there will be alot fewer Democrats in Arkansas, by the way. The tide is slowly shifting, with a little help from the FBI. Too bad so little of the ADFA paperwork is left, though.

Myrmidon
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:47 - ID#345176)
TO: Marshall

What other events have occured on Oct 24th?

STUDIO.R
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:48 - ID#119358)
@jtfOne home............
Judge Bean=West o' Pecos Judge Parker=Ft. Smith Arkies are not movin' on D.C. unless Brother Don Tyson says to. Then and only then, will they move out smartly. GO GOLDBUGS!!!! G&P to YA!!! jtfO

Shlomo
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:51 - ID#288399)
AUH20/Greenspan & WJC
Personally, IMHO, it seems it may be Andrea Mitchell who has changed AG: i.e., he fears for his wife's safety enough to prop up markets at ALL costs because the alternative would be a horrible outcome, and sooner at this. AG is playing for time, that's all. His stance, whatever it is, can only put off the inevitable debt collapse alittle longer. At his age, he may actually hope he's dead before the deflationary spiral becomes inexorable.

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:55 - ID#254321)
Got to log off for a while - New World Order
All: I think the 'New World Order' is going to have a few problems very soon. The structure of their Order is cracking at the seams. Just how is the US government and the EMU going to retain credibility if they are not prepared for y2k? It will be interesting to see what will happen with only private corpoarations ( mostly little ones ) prepared for y2k, and the US government paralyzed. The worst case scenario would be reminiscent of Russia right now.

The American people may look to the government for help -- but it will certainly not be without alot of house cleaning. It is entirely possible that power will shift to the states where problems will be easier to resolve. Wonder just how much more solvent the States are vs the US government.

And -- 'Big Brother' may be watching us, but we can watch 'Big Brother' too. Look what happened to the figurehead of 'Big Brother', WJC.

NightWriter
(Tue Sep 08 1998 12:59 - ID#390415)
@sharefin
Nice food storage posts.

Can I bring my family to your hideout?

ALBERICH
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:00 - ID#212197)
Example Malaysia: Can the terms "Deflation or Inflation" capture..
what's going on in reality?
About 6 weeks ago my wife has bought a very nicely designed microwave ( i.e., simple to handle, as a present for a couple in their mid eighties ) for $79.00. Made in Malaysia. It's a good product. Works reliably and is used every day.
For a compareable product made in US you'd pay about 50% more. This situation has for sure not a stable future. With the devaluation of the Malaysian currency these imports have become extremely cheap, which means a very low price is paid on the international market for the labor performed in Malaysia. Not enough that these countries anyhow had levels of labor pay which reminded of "close to slavery". Now, in the new economic world order, the labor of these countries is additionally devalued.

On the other hand, prices for imports are now extremely high in these Asian countries. So they suffer inflation on the side of imports and deflation on the side of exports. Note: this is not truly an organic market development, which can be observed when prices fall due to competition and increased productivity. In the case of the Asian countries, the devaluation of the price of their work force is the result of financial warfare.

This has two destructive sides. First, this development exploits the human work force and second, it ruins the industrial production in the highly industrialized countries and means a loss of jobs in these countries.

Under these circumstances of financial warfare I consider it legitimate when Dr. Mahatir bin Mohamad thinks of abandoning the rules for free exchangeable currency markets and wants to return to a tighter control of the financial markets. The only way to escape from the slavery conditions which are imposed on these third world countries by the international financial oligarchy, and to stabilize their economies, is to control the flow of speculative capital and to tie their currencies to gold. That's the only way I can see for these countries to restore the value of their work force.

STUDIO.R
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:02 - ID#119358)
@T#1...........
yes, they have their Gautama Buddha....me and you, well we got our own guy..... http://www.stainblue.com/quanahparker.html

bbl.

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:06 - ID#254321)
Arkansas history
StudioR.: Thanks for correcting my faulty Arkansas history! Forgot about judge Parker.

Crazy times, aren't they? It may not be long before your black gold flows again -- at a profit. Probably depends most on how the US dollar fares on the international markets, and on the US commodity price indices. And Saddam is being allowed to rearm, so that we will have someone to fight. Too bad our unfortunate Armed Forces have to put up with our rudderless foreign policy. Can't get any worse, I think, and our next Republican president is likely to be popular with the military.

Whoever it is will have alot of cleaning up to do, though some of it will be done before he/she takes the oath of office. Hope whoever it is does not get blamed for y2k.

robnoel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:08 - ID#410198)
ALERT..ALERT....If you do not believe me call any major dealer...there are NO MS certified $20
Saints or Libertys available anywhere....current bid prices have just gone up $15.00....expect more increases soon....my supplier now is pushing foriegn gold....forget what the media is saying people are hoarding .....

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:12 - ID#35571)
DOW +220
It flys through the air with the greatest of ease, the daring young DOW on the fying trapeze. I wonder if it's working with a net.

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:12 - ID#373284)
STUDIO_R, Namaste' and a gulp for that post...ah...peyote...YES!!!
and now...a link...you should order some of these for you and your flock... http://www.photonlight.com/ most excellent little products!!!

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:21 - ID#254321)
The Net is only for the big guys, the little guys fall through.
Gollum: The net is only for the PPT and other insiders, IMHO. I wonder -- think the Mutual fund guys are linked up with AG and RR etal? What worries me is that even supposedly safe mutual fund money market funds can be raided in a pinch these days. Real US treasuries would be safer. I only hope that Fidelity stays solvent, and does not do anything silly with their money market funds -- I have Fidelity Spartan 100% US treasury for my 403b. Would choose one with 0% interest if it were safer.

gagnrad
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:26 - ID#43460)
JTF et al re AG's
Your comment earlier prompted me to look up and read AG's recent speech. I wonder if it is a promise or a threat or something which looks like a promise but isn't? Here is a link to his speech. http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/boarddocs/speeches/Speech.cfm?WhichSpeechIndex=104

Isure
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:32 - ID#421269)
@ Robnoel

What is fair market on UNC . 20 LIBS and SAINTS, I know where plenty are but they want 469 each and that sounds high.

Test
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:34 - ID#374235)
Glossary query
PPT? IMHO? Please translate.



farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:36 - ID#17077)
Street Focuses Upon Greenspan's Suggested Rate Cut....
...and bypasses his most notable comments.

On Friday, Greenspan's most astounding comments concerned the inevitably of global economic contagion spilling over to America.

Yet, in the true nature of Wall Street spin, the focus today is on a rate cut that most market experts have been expecting for months now.

We are definitely in a Bear market as weak A/D ratio, more new lows against new highs, and overall moderate volume are nothing but a disappointment in the usual Labor Day rally.

Thanks.

F*

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:40 - ID#373284)
Test, Namaste' PPT - Plunge Protection Team here is a link...a little slow...let it load
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/longterm/blackm/plunge.htm

Lou Paquette
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:40 - ID#253227)
@ALBERICH, Market Controls for Prosperity?
"Under these circumstances of financial warfare I consider it legitimate when Dr. Mahatir bin Mohamad thinks of abandoning the rules for free exchangeable currency markets and wants to return to a tighter control of the financial markets. The only way to escape from the slavery conditions which are imposed on these third world countries by the international financial oligarchy, and to stabilize their economies, is to control the flow of speculative capital and to tie their currencies to gold. That's the only way I can see for these countries to restore the value of their work force."

I disagree. The reason Malaysia is in the trouble is in is not because of free markets - it's because of the lack of democracy and rule of law, and uncontrilled corruption and cronyism. The build huge monuments that benefited a very few and served no purpose. Controls in the long term drives away capital and investment, which are needed to give the cheap labour a chance for prosperity. Mahathir may not be a cruel and brutal as Suharto, but he is at least as full of himself to beleive he can actually control the market, and set the direction of capital based on his own self-serving and infinately greedy whimes.

Regards

robnoel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:40 - ID#410198)
Isure...my advice run don't walk and grab as many as possible...current bid prices for raw Saints
and Libertys ...AU 440....BU....465

trader_vic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:41 - ID#372228)
Gold Coins
The US $20 St.Gaudins in MS62-63 graded are $500 + Tax here in NY City, as many as you want...it's the tax here that kills buying these coins here. Most dealers will ship out of state and not charge the sales tax.

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:43 - ID#284255)
NightWriter
You'll have to find it first.
Miles away any seven-eleven or Macca's.
-----------
Just gotta pump this book.
http://members.xoom.com/mspong/

It's very good.
Have downloaded the whole version for future reference.
My virtual hard copy...

If the net goes down it'll be worth its wait in gold.

Some mighty fine reading.

~~~~~~~
Studio
Some mighty fine blue-stems amongst the cow pats
Up on the farm.
Lazy daze and blue skies........

Leland
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:50 - ID#316193)
In Russia it is Now Illegal to Make Purchases in Dollars - More on The Crazy Currency War

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpne1w.htm

strat
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:51 - ID#93241)
Earl 11:31
Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:31
Earl ( Catch 61 and the baseball thingy: ) ID#227238:

It's reported this morning that the IRS will be looking for the fan that caught Magwire's 61st homer yesterday.

It seems that as long as the ball remains in the park, it's the property of the team. Having left the park, it belongs to the fan. Should the fan choose to return it to the team, he then becomes liable for a gift tax. Even though the fan has received no money in the transaction. The number $625,000 was used to indicate value of the ball. ..... Doncha just love it?


Earl, I hope mozel is out in left field ( no pun intended ) to catch McGuire's 62nd. I know he'd give it back. And then it would get real interesting....

2BR02B?
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:52 - ID#266105)
L. Paquette

Bingo. Increasingly desperate measures. Response to attempt
to retain capital-- flight.

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:52 - ID#284255)
Gold testing kit
http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~goldbug/testkit.jpg

PrivateInvestor
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:52 - ID#225283)
To the Dollar

Dive...Dive...Dive...

perfect timing

SDRer
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:52 - ID#290172)
In a cavern, in New York, shifting gold in trouble-time...
Wed, 1/1/97|:AU=42634.8|:USD=115.95
Sat, 8/1/98|:AU=41436.0|:USD=144.78

Thu, 1/2/97|:AU=42417.5|:USD=115.8
Sun, 8/2/98|:AU=41447.5|:USD=144.8241311.

Fri, 1/3/97|:AU=41986.2|:USD=115.92
Mon 8/3/98|:AU=41339.7|:USD=145.46

Sat, 1/4/97|:AU=42058.5|:USD=116.42
Tue, 8/4/98|:AU=41470.7|:USD=144.80

Sun, 1/5/97|:AU=42175.4|:USD=116.70
Wed, 8/5/98|:AU=41400.0|:USD=143.850

Mon, 1/6/98|:AU=41467.1|:USD=115.83
Thu, 8/6/98|:AU=41566.8|:USD=144.53

Tue, 1/7/97|:AU=41345.8|:USD=115.33
Fri, 8/7/98|:AU=41578.4|:USD=145.43

Wed, 1/8/97|:AU=41147.4|:USD=115.68
Sat, 8/8/98|:AU=41877.4|:USD=146.20

Thu, 1/9/97|:AU=41311.0|:USD=116.14
Sun, 8/9/98|:AU=41880.4|:USD=146.280

Exchange Controls? The Mighty don't need yer stinking exchange controls!

And the Yen is "weak"? Depends on what one wishes to buy...

Doesn't this sorta look like pay back time

Squirrel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:52 - ID#280214)
Mozel - We've read the Constitution and understand Gold's role in money
So what is your point in your 05:16?
Getting a lawyer won't help since the system is rigged against us.
You said so yourself - I think ( somewhere in miles of prose ) .
Grizz's 03:29 is correct in that many of us are tired of listening to post after post telling us what is wrong with our nation and with what we are doing or not doing. Yet you offer no good suggestions for what we can effectively do as individuals or as a group of Goldbugs. You dwell on theoretical David and Goliath behavior which, again as you have stated so many times, is futile against such an overwhelming opponent {the USG}.
So we are back to listening to sermons which go nowhere since we are the choir and have heard all this before from other sources as well - from Aristotle to Tocqueville to Jefferson, Lincoln, King and Mozel.
So on a local and individual level what options are open to us?

I, for one, am working on ways to rebuild on firmer foundations after Y2Kaos takes down the present structure. Perhaps a little kick in the weak spots will speed it's collapse. But overt action like the Montana Freemen is doomed and hurts our cause rather than helps. Best we bide our time and prepare by stocking and fortifying our burrows and developing a plan of action for after Y2K.

Thus some of us, unlike theoreticians, preachers and denial-heads, are TRYING TO DO SOMETHING! Since we expect no government to re-introduce a Gold standard of trade for the average person's daily purchases some of us are trying to do so. This too may be an exercise in futility if Y2K does not bring down a system determined to strip Gold of its monetary role or nationalize Gold mines and outlaw private ownership of it - other than jewelry and dental fillings.

Getting even a few tens of grains of Gold into as many hands as possible before Y2K will help us rebuild a defacto monetary system based on Gold. Failing to do so will relegate Gold to tales of the old days by old Goldbugs around a campfire as they fondle their coins & bars {which they bring out of hiding to show each other and which must go back into hiding since possession is illegal and you can't buy anything with them anyway because all transactions are done with chips in people's hands or by computer}.

Yes, perhaps an underground economy could operate with Gold - if we can get enough Gold into circulation in the next year to provide a foundation therefore. Unless the average person has Gold to spend, you won't be able to sell your services in return for Gold . Maybe you plan on dealing only with fellow Goldbugs. But will every tradesman or salesman be part of the Gold Underground Cabal? As you buy services and products and pay with Gold your stock of it will trickle away - grain by grain, ounce by ounce and will not return because, as you may have said yourself - bad money drives out good. There will not be enough Gold in the hands of those you need to deal with to replenish your reserves - you will have to continue buying it on the black market in order to spend it in the underground economy. You will also need to find an underground operation to melt and re-mint your bars and coins down into spendable sizes - about the size of the nail on your little finger - 10 or 20 grains rather than 1/4 ounces.



Dave in CO
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:53 - ID#229141)
@EB
My 401K money is not in long term equities. You got that right. I've read about the 1929-1952 period and what happened to the investment trusts ( mutual funds ) and the people who owned them who jumped out of windows. From what I read, this "new paradigm" market is more overvalued than that one.

I also remember the 1974-1982 market. The political crisis of Scum and Scumary is eerily similar to Tricky Dick's problems of that time.

No thanks, EB. But you're sure welcome to keep holding the bag. Somebody has to.

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:53 - ID#284255)
Risks in the Natural Gas Industry
http://www.ampsc.com/~imager/Y2k/One.html

Charles Keeling
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:56 - ID#344225)
@ TEST RE: Your request for PPT info.
Several links here:

http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~netking/rigged.htm

PPT? A subject that just will not go away.
First used in 1987. Lately being used on a regular basis.

Now the concept is spreading worldwide to other markets.

FREE MARKETS? Indeed: Not.

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:57 - ID#17077)
REPOST: some good ideas about PLATINUM & PALLADIUM.
There is absolutely no populist perception that Plat is an alternate form of currency or that it is any kind of financial reserve. In fact, speaking with my coin dealer, he tells me that for the past week, demand for gold and silver is far outstripping demand for plat coinage. Prior to last week's debacle, demand for plat coinage was holding up well ( if not doing better ) against demand for gold/silver.

In the event of a crash, industrial demand for both Plat and Palladium will tumble ( as both auto and computer sales will dive ) . Moreover, in a post-crash economy, in order to facilitate car sales and get the economy back on its feet, I would expect numerous governments to rescind catalytic converter laws ( by eliminating them altogether ) . In doing so, they will effectively reduce the price of the cars sold, thereby enhancing the likelihood of future car sales.

Sell your plat and palladium...buy gold and silver.

Thanks.

F*

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:57 - ID#284255)
Email chatter
Hey everyone!
Just thought you'd be interested in the Central New York weather we've been experiencing! We had a "microburst" on Monday morning at 1AM. Lightning strikes of 100 per minute ( yup, you got it right! ) and rain and winds of 100mph. Tons of devastation and no power, no food, and in several cases, no telephone and no water. Over 200,000 people without power.
We were away at our Y2K hideaway which was far-removed from the storm during this, but we started getting multiple emergency calls at about 6AM ( my husband is a property manager. ) We brought ice, some food and additional water back with us, and are glad we did. Only two people were killed outright, but several more died of heart attacks as a direct result of the ferociousness of the storm. Several pets died out of fear, also, which I thought was both interesting and sad.
The upshot of this: many, many people have come to me to tell me how they remembered my Y2K warnings and how similar this looks to what I have been telling them. They are going to start preparing for Y2K now. Too bad it takes a tragedy like this to make people start reacting.

STUDIO.R
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:58 - ID#119358)
@ O'sharefin, jtfO, T#1
sharefin, speaking of blue stems o' sky and brown patties...here's a url for your "enrichment" ( I have actually, no joke!, competed in this contest ) ...I flung it as hard as you would...but lost. http://159.33.1.50/programs/basic_black/logs97/apr19.htm

jtfO re: black earl, I concur with you and cherOasaki, the mid-east is about ready to rumble again. Big Aunt Sam is being dealt out of the game.

T#1...The Right High Reverend Quanah Parker sends his most favored thoughts to you for the lightning stick tip. salud! ug.

The Hatt
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:58 - ID#374348)
Things are much too quiet!
Something is going on behind the scenes and my guess is there are massive problems in the derivitives market... Things seem far to controlled and deliberate.. Perhaps they are trying to engineer a market that will be friendly towards unwinding some of these problems. Called my bank five minutes ago and they refused to answer any questions regarding their exposure and that immediately raises the red flags. I am of the opinion that this market is about to come apart and all hell will break loose!

plaintalker
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:59 - ID#217338)
Special for all Clinton lovers and haters frm London Times.
http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/98/09/07/timopnope01002.html?1124027

Test
(Tue Sep 08 1998 13:59 - ID#374235)
@tolerant1 & C Keeling
Good answers. Thanks to you and all for the education provided on a daily basis.

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:05 - ID#17077)
Sept. 8, 1998...the final BULL mania before the Storm????
....the most interesting thing about today's action in the general equities markets is the essential absence of any earth-shattering news supporting the bull hysteria today.

A rate cut has been expected for some time and is likely factored into the markets.

Ironically, the one left-field event ( Greenspan's Friday admission that America will NOT avoid the global economic contagion ) is not even a factor in today's action.

So, I would imagine that a refocus upon Greenspan's Friday capitulation to global economic realities will occur as early as tomorrow should the markets substantially weaken then.

Thanks.

F*




LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:10 - ID#269409)
*Fwipe focuses on his own vacuous Egotist fluff......
and bypasses answering any questions about his previous overwhelmingly bad calls and market knowledge commentary.

In 1998, *Fspot's most astounding notable comments, concerned supposed Gold "SQueeze's", "Limit Up" days ( Whatever that means ) , perpetual DOW crashes, misinformation about metals market activity, blatantly manufactured nonsense with no support from factual data, parroted nonsense from other quarters which he claims as his own, Cowardly unprovoked pejorative attacks on K1 posters with which he doesn't agree, whining schizophrenic flip flops and crying to mama, and some bizarre ego driven idea that he can personally move markets with some "Pair o' dimes" that he has in his pocket.

Yet in the nature of true *Fwipe spin, his focus today is in once again attempting to be taken seriously after all his previous nonsense and the complete destruction of any credibility.

We are truly in a "Bear market" when it comes to measuring the "Credibility" index of the *Fwipe. Unfortunately, THIS particular Bear market, is not subject to cycles like other markets, and is instead, a Bear market in perpetuity.

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:12 - ID#17077)
@ALL...thanks for your various posts I've received....
...applauding the stand I am taking here on K-2.

As Elton John would say,

"I'M STILL STANDING BETTER THAN I EVER DID BEFORE!"

Thanks.

F*

MM
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:13 - ID#350179)
Whatever
Goldman Sachs Tells Employees IPO Will Go Ahead ( Update1 )
http://www.news.com/Investor/NewsItem/0,213,0~0~~~~INI~596871300~~~~,00.html

robnoel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:14 - ID#410198)
trader_vic...Iam talking about PCGS/NGC certified coins MS 62/63 are graded by some other group and
are suspect...with all due respect

KMTMAN@VANCOUVER
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:14 - ID#282164)
QUESTION OF THE DAY?????????
Can anyone and I do mean anyone tell me who is the buyer of the gold when a central bank sells??????????? is it Soros? is it Buffett? is it Tempelton? I need to know who or what is able to absorb a multi ton purchase of Gold. There are some easy eliminations the first being Joe Public. There is no way that the retail investor could even get close to buying a multi ton shipment of Gold. So I ask you once again WHO?????
Who is able to buy that much Gold, and why don't they publicise who the buyer is instead of just who the seller is?????????

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:23 - ID#269409)
NEWPOST...Some good ideas on Platinum & Palladium
There is no populist perception that Platinum and Palladium has any substantive above ground stockpiles in CB's or elsewhere, nor any reliable production capacity that will always meet supply demands.

In fact. a local coin dealer told me yesterday, that ALL the U.S. mint Platinum Eagle proofs had been a total sell out, something which has NEVER happened with the Gold American Eagle Proofs. Furthermore, the 1997 BU Platinum BULLION coins, now carry a hefty premium due to collector demand...again something that has NEVER happened with the modern GOLD AE program.

In a deflationary crash, all inflation hedge commodities including Gold, will suffer huge declines in value, yet Platinum, Palladium, and Silver will still be required for industrial use ( albeit at reduced levels ) , and yet STILL also retain their precious metal valuation. In a real world breakdown such as we see ocurring in Russia, Platinum and Palladium production could be cut to levels far below indistrial consumption, even at these reduced rates of consumption.

If you fear a total delfationary collapse, you'd best consider selling Gold and silver coin, and consider difersification into Platinum.

*L

strat
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:24 - ID#93241)
KMTMAN
Other CB's. Recent reports indicate Poland ( 30 tons ) and China ( 70 tons ) have made substantial purchases this year. For a good overview of the gold market, go to:

http://www.investor1.com/gmo/

Kaplan ( editor ) has a lot of data there and you might find what you're looking for.

DEJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:25 - ID#270235)
Kitman: I vote for fabricators.
Jewelery demand is supposedly about 3200 tons per year.

strat
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:27 - ID#93241)
KMTMAN
Could also be a guy like Bill Gates ( he could afford quite a bit ) .

Jack
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:27 - ID#237264)
Alberich

You said it, in the state of financial warfare Malaysia -a sovereign nation- was right to institute controls.

The entire Asean Group should act together and form a TRADE BLOCK with the understanding to accept each others currencies but with strict control that those within the block toe the line.

This will have the effect of averting unwanted currency attacks, create internal calm, give the IMF the clear message "to get out of our affairs" and send a powerful message to other countries in Asia to take simuliar actions.

All nations worldwide will benefit by such an action.
This will strike a positive bloe for Sovereignty.

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:28 - ID#269409)
Final Bear trap before Bull resumes?
....the most interesting thing about today's action in the general equities markets is the essential absence of any earth-shattering news supporting the recent Bearish Full Moon, Eclispe hysteria today.

A rate cut has been expected for some time ( except by *Fwipe ) and is likely factored into the markets.

Ironically, the one left-field event ( Greenspan's Friday admission that America will NOT avoid the global economic contagion ) is completely factored in today's action.

So, I would imagine that a refocus upon Greenspan's Friday capitulation to global economic realities, and the additional facts that the U.S. has the strongest, healthiest economy in the world, which Grenspan is willing to support with a rate cut if necessary will occur as early as TODAY, cuasing the markets to soar as I predicted they would last week, and this past weekend. ( For which I of course credit Puetz and his "Crash" post eclispe call )

Thanks.

L*

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:29 - ID#17077)
@ALL...I want to also thank those great Kitcoites...
...who have urged me to avoid responding to various posters on this forum who can only speak in epithets and threats.

Unfortunately, the discourse of intimidation may prove to be a harbinger of things to come in this great country. Should the equities market bubble pop, those who are injured inevitably will seek out scapegoats rather than accepting the responsibility of their own bad judgement...their own basic inability to read the changing of the tide. Most likely, the injured parties will declare that the scapegoats are those who perceived the new unfolding global paradigm and revealed it to the world at large.

Nevertheless, some of the key injured accusers may have their own special music to face someday in terms of their role in expediting the perpetuation of mass Bull hysteria.

Thanks.

F*


Thanks.

F*

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:34 - ID#269409)
@ ALL....... Thanks for valuing free speech
. ...applauding the stand sme of us need to take in order to expose liars, frauds, charlatans, Egotists, fascists, traitors, and Orwellian doublethink.

As the Beatles would say,

"You say you want a revolution, we...ell you know!
we all want to change your head".

"You say you'll change the constitution, we..ell you know,
you better change your mind inctead".



Thanks.

F*

Lou Paquette
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:34 - ID#253227)
@KMTMAN...hedge fund managers who don't want others to know they buy?
also could be refiners and minters, and maybe even other central banks, although we have not heard of any....

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:37 - ID#284255)
Could it be real???
http://x7.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=388987505&CONTEXT=905280310.1789067317&hitnum=0

EZ Believer
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:38 - ID#173262)
jims Had story on SSRIF for you but lost it, hang on.

#**%# That is it for America Online! Had a great summary of SSRIF 90% done. Looking away from My screen on one typical 5 minute call at the office and AOL logged Me off for inactivity. I could scream! Any suggestions for an internet server that one can leave on without an automatic cut-off.

Too busy to duplicate it now. Catch you later.

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:40 - ID#35571)
DOW +224
Almost three o'oclock.

Silverbaron
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:42 - ID#289357)
Technical Analysis of the XAU
http://www.securitytrader.com/daily/9-4%20XAU%20-%20daily.gif


sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:43 - ID#284255)
Y2K CONSPIRACIES
http://www.terminator3armageddon.com/conspira/y2k.html

FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD - the Y2K page of the Federal Reserve. If you're smart, you've already taken your money out of the bank and bought gold and silver coins.

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:44 - ID#269409)
@ ALL.... I want to also thank those great Kitcoites....)
...who can recognize a load of self serving crap from a phony when they see it, and still appreciate truth, honesty, facts, reality, clear concise critique, and especially FREE speech for refuting the nonsense of fools.

Unfortunately, the discourse of intimidation and psychotic meltdown, by a certain *Fspot who fancies himself as a self appointed Guru of mind bending who should never be questioned by facts ......may prove to be a harbinger of things to come in this great country.

Should the equities market go up 1000% in value in 2 decades, while Gold loses 96% of it's inflation adjusted value by comparison, those GoldBugs who are injured inevitably will seek out scapegoats rather than accepting the responsibility of their own bad judgement...their own basic inability to read the changing of the tide.

Most likely, the injured parties will declare that the scapegoats are those who manipulated into being, the new unfolding global paradigm for their own wealth and amusement, as poor misguided folks who look to the Moon and conspiracies for investment decisions lose their Ass.

Nevertheless, some of the key injured accusers like *Fwipe and Puetz, may have their own special music to face someday in terms of their role in exploiting the blissful sheeplike lemmings among the GoldBug camp ( a minority thanfully ) , who are willing to ignore rational evidence, history, factual data, good market analysts with strong track records, imperical evidence, and even common sense.....with the perpetuation of mass Gloom and Doom hysteria about the U.S. economy....all to sell newsletters and stroke dysfucntional mental abilities resulting in schizoid psychotic ego centered public breakdowns.

Thanks.

L*


Thanks.

F*

strat
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:48 - ID#93241)
EZ Believer
It's probably not AOL, but a setting in your operating system. If you've got Win95, go to the start menu and hit "settings". Go to the "control panel", then hit the "internet" icon. You should get an "internet properties" window with a series of tabs across the top. Go to "connection" and you should see a box that says "disconnect if idle for..." Just check the box and change the setting or turn that feature off.

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 14:55 - ID#284255)
Y2K and Environmentalism - must read
http://y2ktimebomb.com/Tip/Lord/lord9836.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~


tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:02 - ID#373284)
It is amazing to me that given the possibilities that exist within several different
Y2K scenarios that people are doing nothing...and I mean nothing...I doubt if 1% of America is preparing...when you hear of these companies that sell survival goods are so busy they can't keep up and then you realize that maybe 1% is buying it really gets scary to think what will happen when 5% or better start placing orders...order now or put yourself and your family at risk...no ifs, ands, or buts...place your orders now...I figure there is a three month window to place and recieve product on an orderly basis...

moa
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:04 - ID#269128)
Brazilian plunge team found more ammo....
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/2h.html


Suspicious
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:06 - ID#287312)
Sharefin: Thanks
for that Y2K site. Looks like good regular reading.

EZ Believer
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:08 - ID#173262)
Fuming mad at America Online

While I'm on the subject, did anyone else have a major disruption of service on Friday? I could not access any website from 3:45 to 10:00PM. Had to call My online broker after 4:00 to check limit orders.
Can anyone recomend a 100% reliable service with decent features for investors. I'm kind of used to AOL's financial section and track multiple portfolios. Open for suggestions.

RJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:09 - ID#411259)
..... How Bout That Dow? .....

The metals are moving right back to those bottoms I keep talking about. $4.80 silver, $360 platinum, $278 gold. I still feel as if these will hold. Some are talking about silver falling from here, but I am layering in some buys at these levels. Im buying all the platinum I can but I am still not trading gold on the long side. I am, however, delivering as much gold as I can at these prices and will continue to do so as long as I can get it into people hands for less than $300 delivered cost.

It looks like long liquidation was responsible for the drop in silver today, with gold tagging along for the ride. Platinum and palladium are suffering because of the latest Japanese economic numbers. This has some worried in the short term for the PGMs, but looking at least six months out, I find it hard not to see a $80 - $100 rise in price. I suspect we will get a more modest rally by the end of the month as October platinum rolls into the delivery month. Volatility should be high in October which should offer opportunities for day trades.

Spent the long weekend in San Diego and La Jojja, kayaking, snorkeling, and just generally being a So Cal beach bum. Scripts Oceanographic Institute is located in La Jojja ( about 20 miles north of San Diego ) and there is an excellent reef for divers, and ocean caves for kayakers to explore. Sea air and salt spray, thats the ticket. The cobwebs are clear and I look forward to an interesting couple-o-months in the metals.

Indeedy So

&

Righty O


EZ Believer
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:11 - ID#173262)
Strat Thanks, I will give it a try.


moa
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:13 - ID#269128)
Forming a Gold Plunge Protection Fund.
Anybody interested?

After studying futures and options market behaivour and trading volumes I now understand how these markets can be manipulated so easily. In futures/options trade the dollar volumes are miniscule compared with their underlying controlling asset. If you have a few hundred million to shift around one could easily move the gold market just by buying up all the call options. The shorts can only write so much script without going "naked" so to speak. You can't sell what you don't have. With spot traders actually looking to the futures for direction it is a positive feedback loop....whichever way future moves so follows spot reinforcing futures move.

So who's interested looks like gold has turned the corner now we could ride this baby to the top on rocket fuel of derivatives...using a small Advance Posse Fund to keep futures on the up and up...so to speak.

email if at all interested whiz@u.washington.edu

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:14 - ID#347267)
@ THe Tolerant One
Namaste' o tolerant one. When The One Who Lies finally leaves OUR White House not only will the whole place have to be fumigated, but the Oval Office will need a very professional decontamination team for at least a week!
Re AG; still think he has been bought and paid for, but just maybe Billary has somethin on him or his wife.

Silverbaron
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:18 - ID#289357)
ASA, HM, and S&P 500 pull back to Jeil's model curves
Current pricing: ASA 18 3/16, HM 11 3/16, SP500 1006 put all these approximately on Jeil's blue trend lines.

Watch the next couple of days to see if the down trend continues....that should be a sign to bail on gold mining stocks IMHO.

http://www.pcis.net/jeannev/jeil.htm


LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:18 - ID#269409)
@ Stock Tip
I see Gold isn't fairing all that well today, and especially Gold stocks. Now I did mention that this would happen over the weekend so I hope you all sold the open. After all, I'd hate to see the XAU go "LIMIT DOWN" and investors get caught unawares.

Now for a little stock tip. I know a great company who's stock is up 18% today! Yep, the very one I work for. Loral. The stock was grossly oversold last week, and is rebounding like mad. And tomorrow we have a big launch.... Globalstar....going up on a Russian Zenit from Baikinor.

Will it blow up, or will it fly? Roll the dice, if it goes up, the stock will soar with it. If Golbalstar succeeds, the stock will be earning about $5.00 per share by 2001, making a reasonable valuation $100 to $200!! ( Oops, I forgot, we'll all be dead in 2001 due to Y2K except for the Gold & Gun bugs who will be happily, and enthusiastically blowing away their friends and neighbors to defend their homesteads from hungry cold party crashers! )

Naturally, we at Loral hedged our bets by giving Russia all our military secrets and.... Oops...almost forgot, we're not IN the launch vehicle or military business nor has Space Systems Loral ever been.

Hmmm, and our domestic launch vehicles bulit by McDonald Dougles / Lockheed / Boeing are blowing up right and left even when sending up sensitive, 1 biillion dollar military satellites...and we send cruise missiles over Sudan, that land unexploded to be scrutinized in detail by our enemies, ...all to divert attention from Bill C's many habitual lies...and......well, maybe we ain't such traitors after all.

Oh well, you pays yer money and takes yer chances......

I'll leave the forum now, and give the floor back to the disingenuous one of all time, that soul brother of Bill Clinton who thinks the same way, the *Fwipe. Didn't want to leave without a positive market tip though!

*L


MOREX
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:25 - ID#347172)
Studio.R
Sir, I understand from several other contributors, that you are involved in the oil industry as so am I. Please give me an idea of your future thoughts about our beloved "oil patch". Thanking you in advance.

Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:29 - ID#410194)
New intra-day highs
Way too many people started to plan on shorting the equities this afternoon so that they can take advantage of the "afternoon sell-off". This was talked about here and on some other forums as early as last Sunday!

But the markets rarely rewards "easy and obvious espectations" eh?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:15
THE GOLDEN PROPHET ( THE DOW RALLY IS NOW OVER! ) ID#372262:

2BR02B?
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:30 - ID#266105)
the goat buffet

The old k2 would be an improvement.

Silverbaron
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:32 - ID#289357)
DOW on afterburners!

UP 350+

Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:32 - ID#410194)
Sorry for the typos
Should read:

The markets rarely reward "easy and obvious expectations" eh?

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:35 - ID#17077)
@PUETZ...although I have thought you were a touch too radical....
...with respect to your past rognostications....nevertheless...witnessing today's amazing bull mania ( on the sole basis of a "possible" rate cut that has been factored into the market for some time -- all in the face of the most voracious global economic contagion ever witnessed ) ....and judging by the over-the-top, frothing posts of our favorite "gold police..."

...then I must agree with you ...I think we crash this week.

Thanks.

F*

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:37 - ID#373284)
Mtn. Bear, Namaste'I vote we sell all the furniture to museums...level the White House
and build a new one...or dismantle it and put it back together in a National Park...the only thing that makes that or any house special is having the red, white and blue fluttering over it...bricks...mortar and wood...no more no less...that is all it is...no more...no less...

Spud Master
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:37 - ID#28586)
Anyone want to bet on a hard fall at the close???
This market smells worse than a week old dead catfish in an East Texas roadside ditch. Eke! The paragon of political corruption & manipulation -- The US Stock Market.

What happens when:

a ) The putative interest rate reduction does not happen, or
b ) The Starr Report fries the living hell out of Clinton, or
c ) There is a coup in Russia?

Any of the three can happen between now and Friday.

Invest in this market? ha.

Spud

moa
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:38 - ID#269128)
WB looking for more PM's?
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/39.html

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:42 - ID#384350)
Dow finishing ABC counter rally?
IMO, the Dow is making the "C" portion in an ABC pattern off its Sep 1 low. This rally should finish by tomorrow morning, then it all goes downhill from there. PM's will be under attack as the market manipulators don't want Joe Guppy to get the impression that Gold goes up when the Dow goes down.

We have Starr's Impeachment Report coming out soon, and I'm even considering the possibility of an Earthquake in LA or San Fran this weekend.

Silverbaron
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:47 - ID#289357)
CNBC gets to have ANOTHER DOW 8000 party


LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:48 - ID#269409)
@ Puetz...although I have thought you were a touch too radical..
...with respect to your past prognostications....nevertheless...witnessing today's amazing bull mania ( on the sole basis of a "possible" rate cut that has been factored into the market for some time -- all in the face the strongest and healthiest economy in the world, and the greatest sustained period of economic prosperity ever witnessed ) ....and judging by the over-the-top, frothing posts of our favorite Bill Cinton imitator

...then I must thank you ...for your call that we crash this week.


You see, though I had concerns about the bearish activity of late, and had pulled my discretionary and open 401K funds out of mutuals and into cash.... there still remains a sizeable portion of "House money", i.e. complany 401K matching contributions which are put into Loral stock, and can not be moved. I became concerned about losses, as I saw the value of this stock drop perilously close to the average "Buy price" last week....but then you SAVED me from said losses with your Eclipse / Full Moon crash scenario for today and the rest of this week and next.

Thanks to your continuingly flawless bad calls, and PERFECT record of contrary indications during Full Moons and Eclipses, my company stock is up 18% today last time I checked and will no doubt soar "To the Moon".

Once again, you've helped protect my net worth considerably with your recent calls for a crashin U.S. markets, which was to begin in earnest today.

Thank Puetz!

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:54 - ID#17077)
Hmmmm....volume only 790,000,000 on this radical upside move???
Puetz...this week, I think you may have finally have your day in the sun.

Thanks.

F*

MM
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:54 - ID#350179)
Volatility anyone
DOW up 5%
XAU off 2%

More or less...

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:55 - ID#269409)
@ DOW ,,,crashes UP to biggest one day gain EVER!
Wow, the last time this happened, as I recall, was the last time Puetz predicted an Eclipse based equities crash.

Thanks, thanks, and double thanks, for your call of a "Crash" on the first trading week after the Eclipse call Puetz!!!

As I said Saturday, and Sunday, the DOW will indeed end the week substantially higher than it began. And of course...while we will see continued volatility, no crash is in sight anytime in the near future.

*L

MM
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:57 - ID#350179)
Correction
XAU off 1.43%, sorry.

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:58 - ID#384350)
Moa WB and them block trades
I have my suspiscions as well. When you look at the recent selloff of Disney, Coke, American Express, and Travelers, you kind of wonder if Buffett has gone a lot deeper into cash.

Rumour has it that when Buffett went to NY to rescue Salomon ( now part of Travelers ) he was so spooked by derivative exposure that he immediately tried to unload his convertible preferred in Salomon. With the Travelers buyout, he did quite well, and he loves financial companies, however he may just want to keep his money on the sidelines and wait till he is pretty confident about who will be the last ones standing. Then he'll make his move.

STUDIO.R
(Tue Sep 08 1998 15:59 - ID#119358)
@MOREX..........
My company produces in Ok. and the Permian Basin. We are operators. The company's name is Synergex, Inc. ( formerly Bledsoe Partners ) . I am prez. Have been involved in the production part of the biz for 12 years. We were fortunate to sell approx. 250 wells two years ago when prices were higher. We kept the best wells ( approx. 100 ) .
I think prices will go up within the 2-3 year time frame. This may very well be the last good run up. We will sell our remaining wells at that time. We are not interested in drilling at this time, or leasing prospective acreage, nor will we in the future.
The EPA, MMS, Ok. Corp. Comm., the Texas Railroad Comm. ( not as bad as others ) , are terrorizing us out of the biz. I look forward to never doing business in the U.S., particularly in the resources arena, and never having an employee for the remainder of my life. I hate the government ( all levels ) and their stupid ass, blood-sucking, purposeless people.

Best o' luck to YA!!!!..and Forever May GOD BLESS the OIL MEN!!!! They are the best that 'Merica has to offer in my honest opinion. studio.

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:01 - ID#269409)
@ 2BRO2B
You said;


"Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:30 2BR02B? ( the goat buffet ) ID#266105:
The old k2 would be an improvement."

You mean the one where no one posted and we got a blank screen 2BRO? I agree with you, that WOULD be an improvement over the return of the
*Fwipe....said return necessitating these "Keeping the record straight" posts.

However, I'm sure in due time, the folks from the Asylum will reclaim their lost and wayword charges...and we once agin will be spared from the necessity of posting these "Reality Checks"

PS:

Look at that INCREDIBLE weakness in the DOW. Less than a billion shares volume and only the BIGGEST point gain in history! Man, if that doesn't prove that today is "Crash" day I don't know what does!!!!!

*L

CPO@AU
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:03 - ID#329186)
KMTMAN@VANCOUVER(question of the day)
That is a question i thinlk we would all like to know when a CB sells AU the infor is usuaLLY given weeks later as dissinformation
THINK
country a CB sell x Tonnes to Country B
Country B sell X tonnes to Counrty c
Who in turn sell x tonnes back to counry a
nothing has happened
the market lacke transparency but has heaps of dissinfo part of the heist
go gold physival

cpo_uk

CPO@AU
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:05 - ID#329186)
KMTMAN@VANCOUVER( add comment)
Nothing has happened is incorrect what has happened is that perception has been altered ~ a lot of people think that banks are selling gold which is not true

cpo_uk

Redneck
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:06 - ID#403234)
For the experts: How high do dead cats usually bounce???
Perhaps it just had the fainting goat syndrome.

EZ Believer
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:08 - ID#173262)
Strat...... Thanks, but it is AOL
The disconnection setting was off. What a pain! Someone told me to enter a chat room before going to other places to fool the system. No thanks, there has got to be a better way!

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:10 - ID#252286)
Questions Still Unanswered

He speaks of platinum and palladium
But nary a word on vanadium or radium
Still today, the questions linger
But F*Puetz gives all the finger
What he doesnt know, could fill a stadium

( If you think limericks are easy, this one used all the rhymes for palladium in the entire English language! The "vanadium" was superfluous, but gotta go for them allright? Thank you, Thank You. Next post I will find a rhyme for "Orange" )


F*Puetz wrote:

"In order to get American auto sales going again, then one way of cutting the cost of a car would be recision of the laws that compel a catalytic converter from being part of it".

I asked the below questions regarding his post. He has dodged these questions and cried to Bart. If he cannot answer the most fundamental questions regarding his remarkable leap: that governments would do away with catalytic converter requirements, how are we to believe anything he says?

Do away with auto catalysts: How would this be done? If there are international treaties standing in the way of repealing these laws, this would be a good thing to know when considering whether this outrageous proposition holds water, would it not? If there are laws on the books preventing these other laws from being repealed, these would have to be changed also, would they not? So many questions are raised by F*Puetzs PGM post. He can answer none of them. He just re-posts the same thing again and again as if, absent any facts at all, wishing would make it so.

This is the guy who complains that all sorts of folks are out to screw people over. Yet this worm, because he has an irrational hatred towards, and an obsession with RJ, has now started another misinformation campaign. Like Pegasus before, this cold hearted manipulator peppers this sight with lies and deliberate distortions to further his own agenda. Weve seen his type before, "Buy gold now", while he is placing new shorts. Probably took a couple of short contracts in platinum and is now trying to talk it down. Just like his heroin Hillary Clinton and her short pharmaceuticals when she was bashing the drug companies over costs. Now, I could be wrong, but I seem to remember F*Puetz stating CATEGORICALLY ( LOVE that world Fspot, THANKS! ) that he believes that Clinton is the finest president since Lincoln and that he has a thing for Hillary ( But dont tell his beautiful wife! ) because she just really gets his motor going.

He might have gotten away with his deliberate misinformation campaign, were it not for the way he makes the most fundamental mistakes, and offers no facts to back up his assertion. Thank the Good Lord I am still allowed to exercise my free speech rights and expose this liar and cheat amidst all the smoke and noise and compelling tumult. This slug is nothing but a propagandist and, in the worst sick and twisted style of Joseph Goebbles, F*Puetz has mastered the art of the "Big Lie".

So the questions still remain:

How much platinum or palladium goes into an automobile? What percentage reduction of the total car price will the cessation of use of platinum and palladium bring? What are the alternatives? What are your sources for this information? What would changing these laws entail? How must congress act to repeal these laws? At what point do you see these laws being changed?

I only ask these questions because you offered your "definitive views on Plat and Palladium" to someone here earlier. Since definitive is defined by being the defining nature of that which is being defined, your claim is that you yourself have defined this market. If we are to take your definitive definition, could you please offer some facts to lend support for your views on these metals? I am very eager to learn more. If you do not have the answers to these questions, could you please state publicly that you have trouble with the definition of definitive?

Thanks

J*

PS
You think catalytic converters would go before air bags, sunroofs, stereos, spare tires, or even leather interiors ( the only way to go ) ? I would love to learn how you came to this conclusion? Your leap to the abolition of platinum and palladium from the auto manufacturing process is a stunning feat indeed and seems to be emotionally made. RJ likes platinum. You are obsessed with RJ. You cant stop talking about him. You now have embarked on another misinformation campaign to dissuade people from looking at platinum. You give bad information, with no facts to back it up, information that people may act on ( like Pegasus ) all because you hate RJ?. This is not responsible. Unless, of course, you do have the answers to these questions. Then I retract this entire post and will make you godfather of my beautiful daughter born by my beautiful wife.

Or will you dodge these like you dodge all the other questions when you are in over your head? If you dont have the answers to these, please let me know, I have about 20 more brought up by the post you made. I am very interested to learn, as I keep saying.


Thanks Again

J*

2BR02B?
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:11 - ID#266105)
StudioR.

I worked the oilpatch for a stint, early 'Eighties before the
price collapse, Williston basin out of Sidney MT. Interesting
bunch those oilfield workers, I saw things there I'd never seen
anywheres before or sense, er, since. Gotta go.

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:18 - ID#17077)
REPOST...for those who missed it...
Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:29
farfel ( @ALL...I want to also thank those great Kitcoites... ) ID#17077:
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
...who have urged me to avoid responding to various posters on this forum who can only speak in epithets and threats.

Unfortunately, the discourse of intimidation may prove to be a harbinger of things to come in this great country.
Should the equities market bubble pop, those who are injured inevitably will seek out scapegoats rather than accepting the responsibility of their own bad judgement...their own basic inability to read the changing of the tide.
Most likely, the injured parties will declare that the scapegoats are those who perceived the new unfolding global paradigm and revealed it to the world at large.

Nevertheless, some of the key injured accusers may have their own special music to face someday in terms of their role in expediting the perpetuation of mass Bull hysteria.

Thanks.

F*

Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:23 - ID#410194)
@Farfel
Summer is now pretty much over and Silver is quite far from being in double digits. The top was in by March 2nd it's not even at $5 right now.

Do you think it's because of the Gold short squeeze that never materialized or is it due to any other reasons?

Thanks.

Date: Mon Mar 02 1998 01:54
farfel ( PRAGMATIC THOUGHTS ON SILVER... ) ID#28585:
Silver...the recent, huge advance in silver leaves many doubters expecting the top is now in. Skeptics such as Martin Armstrong note that backwardation in the metal is the sure indicator that bullish mania has gone beyond sustainability and the metal is ready to tumble. Yet, silver is a very unique commodity in a very unique time in our history. At this point, it has far more positives than negatives. Despite this fact, it will remain highly volatile on its way toward its double digit destiny by Summer's arrival.

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:23 - ID#43349)
Who WAS that masked man
This was just like the day they had the 519 point drop, except in reverse. On that day I expected the day traders to close their short poeitions from the early morning sell off, but the market kept falling all day so at the end they jumped on even shorter.

Today I kept expecting the them to sell off int the afternoon, but after lunch the market kept rising, so at the end they went long even harder.

If you can't trust day traders, who can you trust?

Squirrel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:24 - ID#280214)
Bad money drives out good - so what if the good is Gold
We just saturate the market with millions of tiny Gold coins.
What do we care if millions of them get squirreled away.
We mint and sell more - at a profit for each and every one.
So it takes a few billion to saturate the market well enough
that people are willing to use them for everyday retail trade.
Meanwhile several thousand tonnes of Gold gets bought up by
the masses. With that kind of demand the POG has to go up
{which will make Goldbugs happy} and Gold has returned to its
rightful place as money {which makes the anti-fiat crowd happy}.
If we make 50 cents on each coin and we sell a million of them...

EJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:24 - ID#229207)
Gollum
"If the market then settle out and doesn't move much for the rest of the day, you'll see a big sell off in the late afternoon and shortly before close as the daytraders exit for the day."

Looks like someone figured out the New Days Traders' game and took their money.

-EJ

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:26 - ID#17077)
@OLDMAN...take a good look at the comparative volumes....
...of today's upside move versus last Monday's downside move.

I would say we are still in a Bear, experiencing increasing volatility as we wind toward some kind of approaching climax.

It's interesting to note that, in the face of such a hefty point move, the internals were still not altogether bright.

Send us your thoughts.

Thanks.

F*

aurophile
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:26 - ID#201109)
@leftykiwi
I forwarded your message for the humble one to him last weekend as his ISP was down for weather reasons at the time of your post. I also appreciated your SC f projections from 1976 which I had not looked at in "many moons". Best wishes.

Goldteck
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:27 - ID#431200)
Bulyanhulu gold project in Tanzania would be delayed until slumping gold and equity markets
Canada mine co delays Tanzania gold project
DAR ES SALAAM, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Canadian gold miner Sutton Resources Ltd said on Tuesday that its Bulyanhulu gold project in Tanzania would be delayed until slumping gold and equity markets improved.
 Vancouver-based Sutton also said that its partner in a Guyana gold project had withdrawn and talks with other potential partners were underway.
 Sutton is the latest gold company to feel the pain of weak gold prices and a dramatic downturn in world equity markets.
 "Orders for plant and equipment and commencement of shaft and underground construction will be deferred until the gold price and the equity market's firm," Sutton said in an update on its Tanzanian gold site.
 The company said talks with potential lenders are continuing "so that mine financing can be finalised with minimum dilution to shareholders when markets permit."
 Sutton said work on upgrading roads, a construction camp and the drilling of reef structures would also continue. Some engineering work and water reservoir and tailings pond construction would also remain on schedule.
 The Bulyanhulu property holds an estimated 7.7 million ounces of gold resources. A recent feasibility study scoped out a 2,500 tonne-per-day mine yielding over 300,000 ounces of gold annually at a cash cost of $163 per ounce.
 Sutton also said it is looking for a new partner for the Marudi Mountain gold site in Guyana after Brazilian Goldfields Ltd withdrew from the project.
 "Discussions with other interested parties are underway," Sutton said.
 The Canadian company is also partnered with South African mining giant Anglo American Corp in exploring the Kabanga nickel sulphide property.
 Sutton said Anglo, which may earn a 60 percent stake in the project, is aggressively drilling at the site and a new resource estimate is expected before the end of the year.

Speed
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:28 - ID#28861)
CRB Index updated
http://www.crbindex.com/story2333.html

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:30 - ID#373284)
EZ Believer, Namaste' you may find this link of help in your quest...
http://www.links2go.com/more/http:/www.celestin.com/pocia/

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:31 - ID#17077)
@REALISTIC...you should probably ask LGBugal....
...about silver.

He's the indisputable expert ( suppresses a chuckle ) . I think he said something about silver going to the moon about this time.

Incidentally, I look forward to seeing one of your prognostications someday.

You're good at pointing out the mistakes in various Kitcoite's prognostications...but never make any of your own predictions.

Too timid maybe.

Oh, well.

Thanks.

F*

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:32 - ID#252286)
Call to Arms

If I become Missing in Action because of F*Puetz's whining to Bart, I put out the call now for others to follow and persist until they get these questions answered, or F*Puetz admits he doesn't know what he is talking about. I call upon any and all posters to join this Jihad against the K2 Manipulator. Pick up the sword if I should fall and die the noble death. I was once very close to death after a self inflicted gunshot to the head, but Grizz and Squirrel and some others came to my aid and nursed me back to health. I can only believe that the Good Lord has a higher purpose in mind for me and that I am fulfilling this Holy Purpose. Dont let the F*Puetzs of the world kill free speech! Unite and hold this little gerbils feet to the fire. Expose him for what he is.

Carry the torch should I fall
And bless you one and all

MM
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:33 - ID#350179)
CB Sales
An oldie but a goodie
http://europe.cnnfn.com/markets/9803/19/gold/index.htm

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:35 - ID#43349)
@EJ
Yep. Unfortuneatly the market wouldn't stay down for the rest of the day, but kept trending up from a little after 12:30. Sort of like the day we had the 519 point drop--except in reverse.

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:36 - ID#252286)
Oh, but F*Puetz

Correction, Realistic is not good at pointing out mistakes, he is GREAT at it.

It is an art, and we have an artist at work here. proper tone, dead eye aim, if the targets werent so damn big, I would swear he is a master marksman too.

So F*Puetz, got any answers, or are you full of it?

6pak
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:36 - ID#335190)
Overwhelming opponent @ (USG) There are those that are trying to make a difference.
NAFTA: NO AMERICAN FACTORIES TAKING APPLICATIONS

By Devvy Kidd

When I ran against incumbent Republican Congressman Wally Herger last year, he boasted that NAFTA was the best thing that could happen to American business. Opportunities would be created along with thousands and thousands of new jobs. Since Mr. Herger never read NAFTA before he voted for it, I was somewhat perplexed as to how he came to this decision.

In March of 1995, illegally using so-called "emergency Executive Power", Mr. Clinton, with the approval of Dole, Gingrich and others, ROBBED the American People of $52 billion dollars - that's the "loan" amount to Mexico plus the usury charged by the privately owned. unconstitutional "Federal" Reserve Accounting System. The FED isn't a banking system. They loan nothing of value, only ink figures on a ledger sheet, like an accounting firm keeps tracks of ink entries. Remember what Dick Armey said about NAFTA? "...rejection would seriously harm that economy and perhaps create a new debt crisis." Fifteen months into the treaty what does Mexico have? A new debt crisis. Heaven help us from such future leadership!
http://www.devvy.com/9509.html

We must dedicate ourselves to this fight for freedom, for all America has stood for in the past and for all we will stand for in the future. We the People must be the army of America, the leadership for America as William Wallace was for the people of Scotland. We can turn things around by learning to fight smart using the system our forefathers gave us that has held us for so long. Violence is not the answer, unity, dedication and commitment is our weapon.
http://www.devvy.com/index.html

Dear Concerned American:

Enclosed is a brochure outlining the Wallace Institute, what we are, what we stand for and our legal strategy. We're all fed up with the direction America is being taken by bought and paid for politicians and elected public officials who have no clue about the law. Politicians who have forsaken their oath of office for poll results and special interest money.

There are over 27,000 citizens groups in America basically all focused on a core of issues: Abolishing the FED, the IRS, getting America out of the UN, abolishing the unconstitutional Federal Dept. of Education, the EPA and so on. What too many people don't realize is that these entities derive their jurisdiction from international treaties and "writing to your senator or congressman" is as effective as an elephant scratching his back with a toothpick. An elephant scratches his back with something effective - like a tree. You get the picture.
http://www.devvy.com/wiindex.html

Envy
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:42 - ID#219363)
Woowoo.
That was quite impressive. 380 whole points in one little itty bitty day. *grin*. I hope this pig takes off again, I mean really takes off, to 8500 and above. There's still lots of fear out there, so that's probably a good thing for the bull'ites. I know a lot of bears got burned because I started, today, tapping very lightly on the buy button for January puts, and they had already dumped and were back down to reasonable levels ( believe it or not ) . I guess absolutely everyone is expecting a good rally ( or in the bear case - afraid that one might materialize ) . I'll be pawing the buy button a lot harder as we pass 8100, 8200, 8300, and 8500, assuming we pass those levels. I don't want to buy yet - it still seems reasonable to do so, so it's not time. It has to be an absurd proposition before it's a good move. The bull has to look like it was just playing dead, and that the sell-off was a fluke of fear on the part of the masses.

Trinovant
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:46 - ID#359316)
EZ Believer - disconnections
Go to http://ftpsearch.ntnu.no/
and search for ponger.zip

Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:50 - ID#410194)
@Farfel
You're right, I'm not making too many predictions but not because I'm shy, ( I am shy ) but because I want to be sure of what I'm talking about when I point something out about what could happen in a market.

And speaking of Silver, look at what a shy guy sent out less than 2 hours after the highest price of Silver has been recorded on tape in all of 1998. It was the high of the year so far!

( Do you read all messages or only those that fit your thinking? )

P.S.: I'm shy and also very curious and I think all have some questions about the Gold short squeeze in the future... we never know enough!
Date: Thu Feb 05 1998 09:35
Realistic ( A word of caution ) ID#410194:
Most people will probably disregard this message but...

The Silver buying frenzy that took place in the last minutes of trading in the London market this morning reached epic proportions.

The euphoria reached panick buying where emotions were flying high as a result of the extreme mediatization of the Silver situation over the last few days.

Short term traders should now be even more careful and those who have not boarded this train several months ago should try to analyze the situation very objectively.

Listen around, Silver has all of a sudden became a "sure thing".

By looking back to history, the "sure thing" trades mostly always turn against the ones who got aboard late!

Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:54 - ID#26793)
Donald
Dow/Gold Ratio = 28.04. The 233 day moving average is 28.40 and we have been below it for the sixth straight trading day.

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:55 - ID#17077)
@REALISTIC...well, congratulations, REALISTIC ARMSTRONG....
...you deserve a pat on your back for that silver call.

You're a good boy, aren't you! You're a good boy!

( tugs ears, real cute-like )

Thanks

F*


Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 16:56 - ID#26793)
@Kitco
XAU/Spot Ratio = .223. The 233 day moving average is .253

Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:00 - ID#410194)
@Farfel
Thank you! ( I'm so proud )

All right, on to the next subject: The Gold short squeeze?

Naaah.... a bit later.

We'll cover some other stuff first. Ok?

Ok!

Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:04 - ID#410194)
Silver double-digits
Farfel,

Don't forget to tell us why is it that Silver never reached the double-digits like it was supposed to by Summer's arrival. ( Review today's message of 16:23.

Thanks.

jims
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:05 - ID#252391)
EZ Believer and Gollum
Thanks EZ for the SSRIF try. Will appreciate what you find or a lead to it so I can hunt.

Gollum - well I guess we were just worng. A little to quick jumping on the sell side on the S&P ( SPY ) Sup[pose we'll see more follow through tomorrow. I may add to the short side up near 1080 ( 108 SPY ) that's another 300-350 Dow points up the wall of worry.

Meals got slammed. Silver showing its bearish color, gold whimnping along and WHAT PT and PD concerned about economic slowdown in Japan??!!!

Did notice that NEM came back - wish I had bought that at 18 rather thinking I was so smart picking a sell point in the SPY just because it open 2 1/2 pionts higher. Damage isn't big, powder remaining for second assualt.

Peutz - hell of a lunar crash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:07 - ID#26793)
U.S. long bond continues slump in after hours trading; not seen as safe haven now
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/bao.html

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:09 - ID#17077)
@K-1...the sun is shining brightly today....
...and casts shadows hither and thither.

Today, we stand in shadows and yet...

...the sun will shine brightly upon us tomorrow.

Thanks.

F*

Envy
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:11 - ID#219363)
CNBC
Lady on CNBC a while ago said something along the lines of "Gold dropped along with other 'so-called' safe-havens". The tone in her voice made it sound like she thought Gold was a joke, and that the up-swing was a mirage that had happened far away in the market wilderness, seen only by a few people, like the virgin Mary in S. America or something.

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:11 - ID#269409)
@ *FspotWipeStainBlobExcretionDisease
Don't you ever get tired of being right all the time? You and Pitz? First you once again incorrectly state that Realistic never gives a take on the markets...wrong like all your OTHER 9,999 X 10 to the 7oth power, "SHoot for the hip" nonsense....

THEN, you accuse me of making silver "to the Moon" by now predictions...also dead wrong since I am bullish LONG term on silver, out to late 99 and beyond. I don't/won't make stupid short term silver predictions, because I'm not an expert or short term trader.

For good short term analysis, those who value accuracy, intellect, judgement, and mastery of what's happening in the marketplace, would best be served by reading RJ..... the person with the BEST record on Gold calls over on K1.

Perhaps if you'd put your delusional, messianic, desperate to be revered pathology aside for a moment, and go read some historic RJ posts, instead of wasting time arguing here with Jujube..... even YOU might be able to learn something about metals and markets.

Doubtful...but maybe....just maybe........possibly......

Nahhhhhhhh

strat
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:16 - ID#289181)
EZ Believer
Sorry for doubting you. My brother had AOL and his opinion was the same as yours...it stinks.

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:16 - ID#269409)
@ K1...the sun is shining brightly today.........
....because *Fwipe can post no unsubstantiated lies and nonsense there

Today, we stand in shadows and yet...

...the sun will shine brightly upon us tomorrow.

.... when *Fwipe is once again locked up in the State home

*L

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:22 - ID#373284)
And another investigation...Reno just announced a 90 investigation of Clintler for
1996 campaign contributions...it just keeps getting better and better...uh huh...

tsclaw
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:24 - ID#327123)
UP, UP AND AWAY
Well, everthing went as planned today. The "MOTHER" of all sucker rallies should continue for 2 to 3 more days and then it will turn on a dime and start that sucking sound of money disappearing. The short positions that have been a bottom safety for us is going to disappear in the next 2 to 3 days and then its watch out below. Gold stocks will drop with the rest of the market before they make a massive move up. Use this rally to liquidate your long positions.

May you all invest wisely!!

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:27 - ID#384350)
Hey, Something Ain't Quite Right!
Uncle Alan says that in view of Asia, the Fed wouldn't rule out a rate cut, so the market gains 5%. Well why the heck did T-Bonds go down then?

Those Guppies are gonna be real sorry when that proverbial brown stuff hits the fan.

Celui est pris qui croyait prendre.

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:28 - ID#347267)
Maria
Maria sophia gina just said Abby C will be on CNBC later; said "She has been bullish for quite some time, and ACCURATE"!!!!

6pak
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:28 - ID#335190)
Will the Russian people put an end to this madness @ Is the spirit of freedom dead?????
*NEW LABOR ACTIONS UNLEASHED
Workers in the nuclear industry staged a warning strike on 7 September to protest unpaid wages, according to ITAR-TASS. AFP reported that around 200 representatives of nuclear facilities from Yekaterinburg, Arzamas, and Chelyabinsk will demonstrate outside the Ministry of Atomic Energy in Moscow on 8 September. Meanwhile, teachers' strikes on Makarov and Tomari on Sakhalin Island continued into their second week, while miners' strikes in the Vorkuta region spread to another mine. On 8 September, 36 workers in a Vladivostok heat and energy plant joined 11 colleagues who have been on a hunger strike for four days over wage arrears dating back six months. JAC

*OLD, POOR, YOUNG SUFFER FOOD SHORTAGES
Murmansk Governor Yurii Yevdokimov on 7 September requested food assistance from Finland, citing reduced shipments of food to the region from central Russia. In particular, nurseries, kindergartens, hospitals, and nursing homes are in need of basic commodities such as meat, sugar, salt, and cooking oil.

Meanwhile, in Moscow the legal monthly minimum wage of 83.49 rubles ( $4.17 ) barely buys one liter of vegetable oil, two cans of meat, and one loaf of bread, according to Interfax. Prices for imported foodstuffs have risen 100-500 percent at wholesale food markets in Moscow from their pre-crisis level, while bread and milk prices remain steady in most retail shops. JAC

*COURT ANNULS INKOMBANK TAKEOVER
A Moscow district court on 8 September declared void an order by the Central Bank assuming temporary administration of Inkombank, one of Russia's five largest banks in terms of assets, Bloomberg reported. The same day, "Izvestiya" suggested that Central Bank chose to take over SBS-Agro and later Inkombank because it had provided both institutions with special credits of $100 million and wanted to make sure that sum was spent on sorting out "interbank" payments rather than speculating against the ruble.

According to "Trud," Vladimir Vinogradov, president of Inkombank, agrees with the Central Bank officials that a restructuring of the banking system is needed but that all the population's wages and deposits should not be concentrated under the management of Sberbank. Such a policy is "not in the interest of the banking system of Russia and returns it to its state that existed 10 years ago." JAC

http://www.rferl.org/newsline/fulltext.html

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:28 - ID#269409)
@ *Fstain
Incidentally...in case you havn't noticed, or are too dense to notice, calling me LGBugal is redundant.

Here, I'll do this slowly for your benefit. Take the letters "LGB", split them apart with the elemental letters for Gold, you know, AU.....

( See ...we have LaGuB so far do we not, or neurologically challenged one ) ...

and then read it in the mirror...

It was created in deference to the conspiracy, hidden message, McCartny is dead, Black chopper anti everything types over on K1.

Well.... that and because I like to "BUG ALL" at times by rendering the ocassional annoying reality check to those who dwell in perpetual fantasy land.

Folks who like to make up reality as they go along...off the top o'their heads and in blatant disregard of anything truthful, honest, or factual...... ( so they can move markets by sheer will of their mighty Ego cuasing New Paradigms and all.... ) You know the kind of folk I refer to......

Disresepectfully,

Bugal OR LGB...
I believe in liberty....
I believe in speech that's free.....
Not in *Fdorks with the brains of a tree.....


( with aplogies to RJ, chief of bad limerick police.... )

Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:29 - ID#26793)
Greenspan trapped in Box Canyon; Bond Vigilanties have only exit sealed. IMO
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/baz.html

EJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:30 - ID#229207)
Maybe I'm missing something
but isn't a market that starts to swing like this a market that's ramping up for a crash?

We all expected a rally today and we got one. And it'll go up again tomorrow, but not so much. Then it will tend to hang out and look around for direction.

A change in Fed focus from inflation to deflation means that the market no longer has to worry about the Fed peeing in the DOW punchbowl with a rate increase to slow down an overheating economy. Instead the market has an even bigger worry -- a coming recession. The market will look for evidence and interpret news with this fear in its bear conciousness. Six months ago if a big corporation announced layoffs, the market rose on the news that higher earnings were on the way. The very same news in a bear market confirms the fear that we're entering a recession.

-EJ

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:34 - ID#347267)
@ Envy
My target is ~ 8550. Then the REAL Bear comes out. Mean time work toward selling all long positions.

THE GOLDEN PROPHET
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:34 - ID#372262)
REALISTIC
THE DOW RALLY IS NOW OVER!! DOWN HARD INTO THE END OF THE WEEK!!! SHORTIN' ALL THE WAY UP!! AS I'M A LONG TERM DISinvestor!!

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:34 - ID#17077)
@OLDMAN...TODAY's 380 uptick: in my estimation...
...the real problem for an ensuing sustained Bull rise in the general equities market is this: last Monday's dump did not represent a real genuine fear sell-off.

As described by various market analysts, the sell-off was orderly and controlled...and when various media outlets interviewed people on the street that very same day, the majority revealed the same old complacency that is the hallmark of this Ninetie's Bull.

Until we see real fear in a Bull's eyes, then we have not hit bottom. Today was an engineered sucker's rally IMHO.

So, again, I suggest your initial gut feelings about this market are correct. Today's action appears to be a short-term professional move...a combination of the TIME magazine contrarian effect with the anti-Puetz crash call reaction.

What do you think?

Thanks.

F*

Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:35 - ID#26793)
More on Greenspan dilema; something has to give. Stocks or bonds Al; take your pick.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/9n.html

EJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:36 - ID#229207)
And how long will the market wait for a rate cut to materialize
before figuring that rate cut talk was just that, talk.

As with the yen support move, to work a rate cut has to be timed just right.
-EJ

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:37 - ID#17077)
@LGBUGal...you know what I think, kind sir....
...I'M STILL STANDING BETTER THAN I EVER DID BEFORE!

( Elton John )

Thanks.

F*

moa
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:38 - ID#269128)
Donald...quite accurate...Greenspan boxed in..
bandito gold buyers going long in the gold calls maybe his only chance.

EZ Believer
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:40 - ID#173262)
jims.....SSRIF...Like buying an out of the money option with no expiration.


farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:41 - ID#17077)
@EJ...yes, unfortunately for all concerned, I think so....
Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:30
EJ ( Maybe I'm missing something ) ID#229207:
Copyright  1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
but isn't a market that starts to swing like this a market that's ramping up for a crash?

I'm afraid so.

Thanks.

F*

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:41 - ID#252286)
A repost and then some

Doesnt look like F*Puetz got the last one since he still has no answers.

I would never dream of re-posting something this many times unless it served a purpose. So far F*Puetz has posted his irrational take on PGMs a half dozen times, but still no answers to the most basic questions about the foundation of that post. Silly lines about sun and shade will not suffice. He will answer these questions, admit he does not know, or be faced with the same questions forever, and ever, and ever.. ( Jack Nicholson in "The Shining" again )

So again we ask:

He speaks of platinum and palladium
But nary a word on vanadium or radium
Still today, the questions linger
But F*Puetz gives all the finger
What he doesnt know, could fill a stadium

( If you think limericks are easy, this one used all the rhymes for palladium in the entire English language! The "vanadium" was superfluous, but gotta go for them allright? Thank you, Thank You. Next post I will find a rhyme for "Orange" )


F*Puetz wrote:

"In order to get American auto sales going again, then one way of cutting the cost of a car would be recision of the laws that compel a catalytic converter from being part of it".

I asked the below questions regarding his post. He has dodged these questions and cried to Bart. If he cannot answer the most fundamental questions regarding his remarkable leap: that governments would do away with catalytic converter requirements, how are we to believe anything he says?

Do away with auto catalysts: How would this be done? If there are international treaties standing in the way of repealing these laws, this would be a good thing to know when considering whether this outrageous proposition holds water, would it not? If there are laws on the books preventing these other laws from being repealed, these would have to be changed also, would they not? So many questions are raised by F*Puetzs PGM post. He can answer none of them. He just re-posts the same thing again and again as if, absent any facts at all, wishing would make it so.

This is the guy who complains that all sorts of folks are out to screw people over. Yet this worm, because he has an irrational hatred towards, and an obsession with RJ, has now started another misinformation campaign. Like Pegasus before, this cold hearted manipulator peppers this sight with lies and deliberate distortions to further his own agenda. Weve seen his type before, "Buy gold now", while he is placing new shorts. Probably took a couple of short contracts in platinum and is now trying to talk it down. Just like his heroin Hillary Clinton and her short pharmaceuticals when she was bashing the drug companies over costs. Now, I could be wrong, but I seem to remember F*Puetz stating CATEGORICALLY ( LOVE that world Fspot, THANKS! ) that he believes that Clinton is the finest president since Lincoln and that he has a thing for Hillary ( But dont tell his beautiful wife! ) because she just really gets his motor going.

He might have gotten away with his deliberate misinformation campaign, were it not for the way he makes the most fundamental mistakes, and offers no facts to back up his assertion. Thank the Good Lord I am still allowed to exercise my free speech rights and expose this liar and cheat amidst all the smoke and noise and compelling tumult. This slug is nothing but a propagandist and, in the worst sick and twisted style of Joseph Goebbles, F*Puetz has mastered the art of the "Big Lie".

So the questions still remain:

How much platinum or palladium goes into an automobile? What percentage reduction of the total car price will the cessation of use of platinum and palladium bring? What are the alternatives? What are your sources for this information? What would changing these laws entail? How must congress act to repeal these laws? At what point do you see these laws being changed?

I only ask these questions because you offered your "definitive views on Plat and Palladium" to someone here earlier. Since definitive is defined by being the defining nature of that which is being defined, your claim is that you yourself have defined this market. If we are to take your definitive definition, could you please offer some facts to lend support for your views on these metals? I am very eager to learn more. If you do not have the answers to these questions, could you please state publicly that you have trouble with the definition of definitive?

Thanks

J*

PS
You think catalytic converters would go before air bags, sunroofs, stereos, spare tires, or even leather interiors ( the only way to go ) ? I would love to learn how you came to this conclusion? Your leap to the abolition of platinum and palladium from the auto manufacturing process is a stunning feat indeed and seems to be emotionally made. RJ likes platinum. You are obsessed with RJ. You cant stop talking about him. You now have embarked on another misinformation campaign to dissuade people from looking at platinum. You give bad information, with no facts to back it up, information that people may act on ( like Pegasus ) all because you hate RJ?. This is not responsible. Unless, of course, you do have the answers to these questions. Then I retract this entire post and will make you godfather of my beautiful daughter born by my beautiful wife.

Or will you dodge these like you dodge all the other questions when you are in over your head? If you dont have the answers to these, please let me know, I have about 20 more brought up by the post you made. I am very interested to learn, as I keep saying.


Thanks Again

J*

6pak
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:42 - ID#335190)
Germany Central Bank @ Joint action "MAY BE" ??? planned.
September 8, 1998

Dollar moves higher amid talk of rate drop

NEW YORK ( Reuters ) - Healthy stock market gains and talk of lower interest rates pushed the dollar higher against the German mark and Japanese yen on Tuesday as traders returned from a three-day weekend.

However, dealers said conditions remained choppy with most currencies finding little new direction as Russia's crisis festers and Japan's economy remains sluggish.

Dealers appeared ready to believe speculation of international rate cuts, particularly as a German central bank official offered what they interpreted as even more hints that some sort of joint action *may be* planned.

Bundesbank council member Olaf Sievert told a banking group in eastern Germany the central bank would maintain its steady rate policy before Europe introduces a common currency next January. But traders jumped on his remark that Germany had no fears of lowering rates if this were needed.
http://www.freecartoons.com/ReutersNews/DOLLAR.html

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:43 - ID#269409)
@ *Fwipe ..... Wrong Elton John tune
I know you get confused easily.... so it stands to reason you got your Elton John songs mixed up.

The one that applies to you is "MadMan Across the Water"

Thanks,

*L

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:45 - ID#252286)
F*Puetz

Oldman will not talk to you
He does not suffer fools lightly

( besides he shorts gold - just like you do )

KMTMAN@VANCOUVER
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:47 - ID#282164)
AND THE CORRECT ANSWER WAS GIVEN BY MM
Thanks MM I new someone would be smart enough to figure out who buys the gold that a central bank sells? I new it had to be a person or entity with enough clout to absorb a multi ton purchase, I just couldn't put my finger on who???? or what????

Thank you very much for clarifying the answer for all of us. I know that I for one will sleep much better and I feel much better about the long term fundamentals for gold. Especially when you add Indonesia's inflation rate of 77% to the equation. It looks something like this;

CURRENCY DEVALUATION + AMERICAN BAILOUT + INFLATION INCREASE OF 77% TO 97% IN RUSSIA, INDONESIA, AND JAPAN = GOLD GOLD GOLD GOLD THEN GOLF GOLF GOLF

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:47 - ID#254321)
More from Matt Drudge
All: K Starr to cite 'executive privledge' requests as abuse of power, as well as the use of WJC's federally employed lawyers for personal needs.

Also, the KS team is going through the Nixon records for impeachable offenses.

According to M Drudge, the Starr report is going to Congress in the next few days. Could be devastating to the equity markets if KS has anything significant. Security must have been tight if WJC's lawyers are asking for a preview on the Monica part before it goes to congress. I'll bet KStarr had a good laugh about that one. Recently KS looks alot happier than WJC.

http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm

My guess is that gold equities will get another pounding if the WJC business makes the markets take it on the chin, offering an opportunity for purchase of some gold equities. Unfortunately, one must be nimble in these markets, so I don't think it is worthwhile to 'shoot your wad' in precious metals equities quite yet. Gold bullion needs to confirm the gold equities rally -- probably would happen if WJC is likely to be impeached.

The irony of the impeachment proceeding is that a large portion of the process is a popularity contest. The Dems are moving away from WJC, and once it is clear that the polls are revealing his popularity is heading south, the feeding frenzy will begin. Kenneth Starr has played the media almost as well as if he had access to WJC's spin team, IMHO.

Probably the only thing that would save WJC at this point is a persistent market rally. Pretty unlikely --.

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:48 - ID#384350)
Golden Prophet - I Agree
This Rally finished at the close. Them Guppies took this one a bit too far, putting in 2 days of rally into one day. When there is no follow through tomorrow, it will fade & just get worse thru Friday.

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:50 - ID#17077)
GREENSPAN...between a rock and a hard place...
...if he lowers rates, he kills the bond market through fears of impending inflation.

Lower rates portend a weaker US buck, thereby inspiring foreign capital to flee.

Not good in the long-term for either bond or stock markets.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Thanks.

F*

Leland
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:51 - ID#316193)
There is a Portion of my Portfolio Invested With a Guru Who is Advising This..
Does anybody have any experience, comments??
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.infinity.ai/profile.html

MM
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:52 - ID#350179)
Deflationary Spiral Dance
...Taichi Sakaiya, director-general of Japan's Economic Planning Agency, said that while the economy has not yet fallen into a deflationary spiral in which prices sink lower and lower, "we are at the entrance of one.'' ...

...Sakaiya said the Japanese economy could enter an "extremely dangerous'' phase should the economic situation outside of Japan continue to worsen...

Japan downgrades economic assessment as top official warns of deflationary spiral
http://www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/news/international/0908/i_ap_0908_72.sml

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:53 - ID#269409)
@ Look at the brilliance of this inquiry !!
" but isn't a market that starts to swing like this a market that's ramping up for a crash? I'm afraid so. Thanks..... *Fwipe"

Yes *Fwipe...obviously a market that moves sharply higher is doing so in anticipation of an imminent crash. This has held true for every sharp uptick in the DOW from 777 roughly 2 decades ago, until today hasn't it?

All those sharp upticks resulting in... uhhhh....a thousand percent plus gain?

Oooops...oh well, the crash WILL come eventually...Puetz, Chessedi**, and *Fspot promise it will! Really! Honestly! This week! Today! Right after the Lunar events of the weekend! Uhhuh...just like before.......

*L

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 17:58 - ID#17077)
@K-2....for those who missed this post on K-1...
It's a good one!

Thanks.

F*

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:47
JTF ( More from Matt Drudge ) ID#254321:
Copyright  1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: K Starr to cite 'executive privledge' requests as abuse of power, as well as the use of WJC's federally
employed lawyers for personal needs.

Also, the KS team is going through the Nixon records for impeachable offenses.

According to M Drudge, the Starr report is going to Congress in the next few days. Could be devastating to the
equity markets if KS has anything significant. Security must have been tight if WJC's lawyers are asking for a
preview on the Monica part before it goes to congress. I'll bet KStarr had a good laugh about that one. Recently
KS looks alot happier than WJC.

http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm

My guess is that gold equities will get another pounding if the WJC business makes the markets take it on the chin,
offering an opportunity for purchase of some gold equities. Unfortunately, one must be nimble in these markets,
so I don't think it is worthwhile to 'shoot your wad' in precious metals equities quite yet. Gold bullion needs to
confirm the gold equities rally -- probably would happen if WJC is likely to be impeached.

The irony of the impeachment proceeding is that a large portion of the process is a popularity contest. The Dems
are moving away from WJC, and once it is clear that the polls are revealing his popularity is heading south, the
feeding frenzy will begin. Kenneth Starr has played the media almost as well as if he had access to WJC's spin
team, IMHO.

Probably the only thing that would save WJC at this point is a persistent market rally. Pretty unlikely --.

noah
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:01 - ID#39067)
deflationary depression or expansion?
Steve Baldwin: Fortune Magazine; states, Hewlett-Packard rolled out its 150MHz Pentium MMX-powered Omnibook 2000 last October for $2400, but the 11 months it's spent on the market have taken their toll on its retail price. Now you can pick up an unrefurbished Omnibook 2000, complete with 3 year warranty, for just $799 yank bucks at Computer Discount Warehouse.

moa
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:06 - ID#269128)
Brazil...next domino teetering....
with BIG US bank exposure...thar couldn't be good for bonds or....?
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/business/msnbc/story.html?s=n/msnbc/business/19980908/19980908201

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:06 - ID#252286)
The worth of a man is calculated by how he acts when faced with honesty

F*Puetz, you are a coward. You will not answer because you do not know. You are not man enough to admit you are full of it. That is a coward in any book I ever read.

You have no credibility.
You are a coward and a buffoon.
You cry to mommy to stop legitimate questions about the claptrap you post.
You are the absolute worst example of what you endlessly complain about.

I think it may be time to dig in the Kitco archives to show how you rail against liars and cheats and the misinformation specialists. Yet here you are acting in the very way you claim to hold in contempt. This is an interesting development. We will explore your lies and lack of backbone further.

Or you can be a man and answer simple questions about a compelling categorical statement you made about PGMs.

Pull down that skirt son, youre in public.

You are a coward ( ooooops I already said that )

Answer the questions or face the tumult

Tantalus Rex
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:07 - ID#295111)
XAU Today
XAU END OF DAY SUMMARY
1998-09-08
ABX-Barrick Gold-CLOSED AT $16.9375 0.1875 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.23
ASL-Ashanti Gold-CLOSED AT $6.5000 -0.2500 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.09
BMG-Battle Mountain-CLOSED AT $4.3750 -0.2500 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.19
CDE-Coeur D'Alene-CLOSED AT $5.5625 -0.5000 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.04
FCX-Freeport Mc-CLOSED AT $13.4375 0.0000 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.00
GGO-Getchell Gold-CLOSED AT $12.6875 -0.3125 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.03
HL-Hecla Mining-CLOSED AT $4.3750 -0.1250 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.02
HM-Homestake Gold-CLOSED AT $11.1875 -0.8125 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.56
NEM-Newmont Mining-CLOSED AT $19.0000 -1.0000 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.51
PDG-PlacerDome Gold-CLOSED AT $11.6250 0.3125 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.25

XAU CLOSED AT 63.76 -0.93

NEM & HM took the XAU down today, would have been worseif not for ABX & PDG

John B
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:10 - ID#211105)
Leland
If you have money invested with this phantom operation, it would seem that you would be the one to comment? What are your comments?

Envy
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:12 - ID#219363)
@Mtn Bear
8550 sounds like a good number to me. I'd have trouble envisioning a near-term future of 9500, and we're sitting on 8000. Amen to getting out of long positions - I've been sitting in cash and some small amount of Gold since before the high. I'm not as convinced about "when" it'll go, there are still a lot of folks who are calling this thing "over sold", people who have money and believe what they're saying. I don't think this thing will approach the low without wisping right past it like an anvil through tissue paper.

Leland
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:16 - ID#316193)
@John B
No, I do not have any money invested with any phantom operation.
Seminars I do like. Maybe I'll attend one or two. If I learn
anything, then I can share on Kitco. Sharing is what Kitco is
all about.

Oldman
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:17 - ID#186147)
Synergism!!!
I posted here ytd that the combined effect of simultaneous "Crash Calls" by both Arch Crawford and Steve Puetz would be a big rally. But the power of this combination surprised even me!: ) : )

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:17 - ID#269409)
@ *Fwipe... Your brilliant market insight
*Fwipe....I read this brilliant insight of yours re market movements, and now the full impact of it's implications are finally dawning on me.

You said;

" but isn't a market that starts to swing like this a market that's ramping up for a crash? I'm afraid so. Thanks.....*Fwipe"

Mr. *Fwipe, In view of your above statement, can I safely assume that when the Gold market finally starts making a "Swing" sharply upward, that it's ramping up for a crash? You know, when it get's "Squeezed" and goes "Limit up" should I sell immediately in anticipation of a crash? Inquiring minds need your valuable expertise in these volatile markets.

Thanks in advance,

*L


noah
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:24 - ID#39067)
deflationary depression or expansion?
Steve Baldwin: Fortune Magazine; states, Hewlett-Packard rolled out its 150MHz Pentium MMX-powered Omnibook 2000 last October for $2400, but the 11 months it's spent on the market have taken their toll on its retail price. Now you can pick up an unrefurbished Omnibook 2000, complete with 3 year warranty, for just $799 yank bucks at Computer Discount Warehouse.

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:24 - ID#252286)
And the nose goes UP

When faced with his own lies, misinformation, and cowardice, he does what he always does, he panders to the crowd. They have seen this brown nosed act too many times to want to see much more of it now. All people really remember is the fool who shouts out all the wrong answers.

Next he will be spouting poetry about dead grandmothers. The man has no shame as he has no backbone. I am on a Jihad. The good Lord saved me for a purpose, this must be it, cant see much else in Iowa that needs doing.

Hey, F spot! This is K2. Bart separated the forums and threw you off K1 for a reason, you twit. K1 needs sane people, that is why you are on K2 which, by the way, is not your personal domain to hold forth in regal style and defacto post on K1 through drunks and lackeys. You enlist your minions and Ill enlist mine. I suspect your minions number in the tens, while mine are in the thousands. Yours have no money because of the brainless way they followed your lame calls like Pegasus. Metals may go down, but they never go to nothing like Pegasus did, do they?

My own minions just like the sound of a good Jihad, been awhile since they had one of those.

PS
JTF holds you in sorrowful contempt. He is a thinker. He likes to figure out the workings of a thing, he is a physicist, after all. He is at a loss to figure out how you can occasionally sound so rational, and be a complete kook. Sticking your nose up that rear will not bail you out of your sinking boat, sonny.

blub blub blub

Bill Buckler
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:29 - ID#256381)
The Thoughts of Chairman Greenspan
The whole world has decided that Alan Greenspan and the U.S. Fed is going to save us all! Ever since his speech at the University of California at Berkeley on September 4, the gyrations on world stock markets have been nothing short of awesome.

Thus, the financial crisis has finally focussed on where it was always ultimately going to focus, the ultimate world "lender of last resort", the U.S. Fed - and Treasury. Everyone else, the IMF, the G-7, the World Bank, the Japanese Government, has tried and failed. Now, the Fed and Treasury are front and center. And, of course, they MUST succeed. There is no "higher authority" to appeal to.

The bet that they will succeed is awesome, as witness the huge 380 point upside explosion on the Dow today.

The Privateer has posted an update on our Dow - Japanese Nikkei comparison charts. They are still moving in lock step as they have been doing ever since the Fed/Bank of Japan joint intervention to save the Yen back in mid June.

We have added a feature to the chart this time. Three links to the ideas of Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan - spread over a time frame of 32 years. First is the speech made at Berkeley on Sept. 4. Then, there is the famous "irrational exuberance" speech made in December 1996. And finally, there is an article written by Mr Greenspan in a "different life" - way back in the summer of 1966.

You will find a link to the updated charts, and Mr Greenspan's ideas, on The Privateer's home page.

Bully Beef
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:29 - ID#260119)
i'VE READ SOME STUFF HERE (caps lock) and I think the deflation scenario has sunk in.
Good. I'm giving myself an attaboy.My ego is too large for this site so I don't want to smoke your computers. The thing is ...now every body in the world has run to the U.S. dollar and it is therefore...Really Worth a LOT.This is no joke . IN a fair world it really is the best money to be in and it is fairly achieved....BUT The U.S. gov. cannot devalue it unfairly to save jobs in the US because they have an obligation to all the rich of the world that bought the currency and made it worth so much... to leave it that way.My question is therefore... how do you protect the American economy which is being destroyed because the dollar is so high, and at the same time not rip off the people who invested in you? If you can answer this question, I say you will be rich in the next 6 months. Gidday. GO GOLD! OH ? is this the sucker rally. I hope so. I gave my wife the ULTIMATUM to sell on the strenght of this rally. I hpoe I'm not wrong.

Gianni Dioro
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:34 - ID#384350)
Prechter on-line chat on Thursday
You need to register to participate in the chat or you can email a question and read the transcript later. I registered and then I got spammed a couple of times to buy a sewing machine. CAVEAT EMPTOR: Prechter will sell your adress.

BOB PRECHTER EAGER TO CHAT http://www.elliottwave.com/club/members/index.htm>http://www.elliottwave.com/club/members/index.htm>http://www.elliottwave.com/club/members/index.htm
Bob Prechter has a clear view of the current market and is eager to chat. He will be our guest on Thursday, September 10, at 9:30 PM EDT. The chat will be held in the EWI Auditorium, by popular demand. As always,
if you would like to submit questions before the chat you can do so by
simply emailing them to mailto: chatquestions@exchange.elliottwave.com .
While we're on the subject of chats...TRANSCRIPT OF LAST CHAT
http://www.elliottwave.com/club/members/index.htm
Since the last chat with Bob, we've been inundated with requests for the
transcript. Well, we regret to inform you that we had a technical glitch and the chat went "unrecorded". We do, however, have the transcripts for all our previous chats available on the member page and
we've just recently added the transcript from Bob's interview on Fox
News Network's Cavuto Business Report.

DEFLATION: Has the Monster Been Unleashed?
http://www.elliottwave.com/club/members/index.htm

Read the Prechter Q&A that explains what's really behind the activity in
the world's markets right now.

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:38 - ID#269409)
Greenspan between a rock and a hard place.....
Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:50
*Fwipe " ( GREENSPAN...between a rock and a hard place... ) ID#17077:
...if he lowers rates, he kills the bond market through fears of impending inflation. Lower rates portend a weaker US buck, thereby inspiring foreign capital to flee."

Uh huh, that foreign capital will flee immediately to the Ruble...uf no I mean the Rupee, uh no I mean the Yen...., wait the ... no wait uh the new Euro cause those socialist countires are so good at unity and getting along...uh I mean uh.......


*Fwipe..."Not good in the long-term for either bond or stock markets. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm? Thanks."

Yes that's right, lower interest rates have always historically caused a collapse in the stock market...lower rates are also terrible for the economy during preiods of slowing economic activity. Let me just check here on my database to verify all the times lowering rates has caused a meltdown in stocks.......uh .....well...uhhh.....Never mind!

F*Wipe

TYoung
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:42 - ID#317193)
Buckler....thoughts....
Defaults on debt....derivatives...hold on to your shorts ( the ones with brown in them ) . Tis a matter of time. The last hope.....like a deer in headlights.

Tom

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:47 - ID#269409)
@ Jujube......*Fwipe's brilliant Pegasus call
Now that's not fair Juju.... Pegasus after all is at .03 cents currently, that's true, down 99% or so from the time of *Fwipes recommendation...

But remember, according to *Fwipe "logic" rapidly rising markets obviously portend an imminent crash. This we can assume that the inverse is also true.

A stock which falls sharply, losing 99% or more of it's value, must be doing so in preparation for a huge increase, yes? Buy bankrupt Pegasus.....all you *Fwipe disciples. It'll make yer fortune..uh huh, especially if you bought it when *Fwipe was recommending it.....when it was 100 times the market price that it is now.......

*L

Bill Buckler
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:51 - ID#256381)
Oh Ye Of Boundless Faith
It is said that faith can move mountains. It is certainly moving mountains of money. Consider what has changed in the so-called "real world" since last Friday.

This is the biggest bet I've ever seen, based on two assumptions. The minor assumption is that the Fed will lower rates. They very well may. The second and major assumption is that this act will "fix" everything. I have one question to ask. How?

Goldbug23
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:51 - ID#432148)
STUDIO.R - Your 15:59
Your experience made me cry. I have to think if enough of our countrymen ( including women ) knew of your experience trying to supply needs in our society we would eventually have enough Libertarians to do something about it. Am I a voice in the wilderness? I guess so. God help us all.

LGB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:53 - ID#269409)
@ Seriously
the REAL reason for today's market activity, has nothing whatever to do with Allan Greenspan's comments.

The REAL reasons are twfold. They are known as the;

1 ) "Puetz Lunar contrary indicator effect" and..

2 ) "McGuire Home run analogous to DOW direction effect"

This is known as serious TA. Not not T & A, TA!

Thanks,

*L

TYoung
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:55 - ID#317193)
Did someone call for one of the drunks...if so just thought I check in...w/out
Permission. Quite frankly, I am begining to think your all crazy.

PS...internet stocks with well placed stops...shhhhhh don't tell anyone.

The difference between today and last monday? None...got to tell you something. UP...DOWN...UP...DOWN...the last wave will get ya!

Tom

Nick@C
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:56 - ID#386245)
JTF
You've been sitting on the fence so long that your butt-crack goes up to your neck{:- ) ) ) .

"My guess is that gold equities will get another pounding if the WJC business makes the markets take it on the chin, offering an opportunity for purchase of some gold equities. Unfortunately, one must be nimble in these markets, so I don't think it is worthwhile to 'shoot your wad' in precious metals equities quite yet. Gold bullion needs to confirm the gold equities rally -- probably would happen if WJC is likely to be impeached."
............
Gold equities have just risen 25%+ ( and are due for a little correction ) . When are you going to buy, when they have doubled or trebled in price?


RJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 18:59 - ID#411259)
..... Market Stuff .....

The action in the silver pits today was all as a result of rumors the Russians are selling silver. This does seem a good possibility, since the Russians apparently have silver to sell. It also shows how nervous these markets are about even the hint of Russian sales.

Spot sales of Russian PGMs were reported today. Palladium in particular, and platinum to a lesser extent are subject to these worries and responded with another sell off. The floor reports speculative and fund buying at the lows in platinum. A retest of $350 could be in the cards, but I am layering in platinum trades at these levels. There seems to be little action in the palladium market now and I dont trade that cursed metal anyway.

People dumped gold as the Dow rallied today, taking profits on their recent gains. Remember what I said about 288 - 290? That is where producer selling steps in. J Aron was a reported seller of gold today.

As I said, I am also layering in silver trades with tight stops. I think the funds might support some of that lower priced silver they bought over the last few weeks.

Silver up. PGMs, down then up, gold down then back to $290 or as Lurky puts it, "ASB".

OK


Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:00 - ID#252286)
O

I forgot:

F*Puetz does have a third way out of the dilemma, do what he always does:

He waits for somebody else to give the answer, and then claims to have "known it all the time". We have seen this pre-pubescent ploy in the works just a couple days ago on the LIMIT UP thing, so it is all fresh in our minds.

That is why I asked a question or two that cannot be found on K1, but a man that can define a market should have no worries ( or should I say, "know worries" ) about answering some questions that are basic and fundamental to the argument he put forth.

They will not bail you out this time.

You are proven a fool again, but guess what?

We knew it all the time!

RJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:03 - ID#411259)
..... Oh Yeah .....

I still have faith in the bottoms. Even if they break a bit, I feel pretty good about them recovering quickly.

Righty O

EZ Believer
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:04 - ID#173262)
jims....SSRIF oops... hit the wrong button a few minutes ago

I have been following Silver Standard Resourses, Inc. for over 2/12 years. Here is a brief overview of the company as I see it.

SSRIF has been in business over 50 years. However, four years ago they set out for a grand objective. Their goal was to establish proven silver reserves of 250 million ounces throughout the world. They hired a top notch mining executive named Robert Quartermain to run the company and through some decent promotion raised a significant financing package. They obtained a wide variety of silver concessions throughout North&South America, Mexico, Austrailia, and the former Soviet Union. At one time they calculated their probable reserves at 175 million ounces. That is why the mining industry classifies "probable".
The stock price has colapsed from over $5 per share to under a dollar inside the last twelve months. I feel there are three reasons for this freefall. Each provides a lesson in PM equity ownership.

1 ) Poor drill results in Bolivia. A good looking property comes up uneconomical. A tune played many times in the mining industry.

2 ) Political and unstable country risk. In spite of the ramblings of the Communist News Network and the other propaganda machines, there is no "NEW WORLD ORDER". It only exists in the minds of a few aspiring Hitlers who would like to enslave us all. Many of the best PM properties
in the world are located in some very unstable countries. A company can have the best property, with the best production facilities and skyrocketing commodity prices and your stock certificates can be hanging by a nail in the outhouse over night.

This appears to be the case with SSRIF's joint venture with Geolog, a Russian company with top notch concessions in Magadan Oblast. When I hear fearful reports from the PM eggheads warning of the dire consequenses of Russian dumping of PM's I break out in laughter. The Russian production machine has nearly ground to a hault. Most of their gold has been sold or stolen. It is almost immpossible to do business there. They have no capital for expansion of production facilities, an unmotivated work force, thugs for local government, and a hostile and punative yet ineffective tax collection system. SSRIF and many other companies found this out the hard way. Goldbelt Resourses went down in a cloud of dust when all their eggs were in the former Soviet Union basket and they were forced to walk away. Likewise as soon as production payoff begins with Geolog, SSRIF finds itself out of the picture. A prime example of the need for geological diversification. The good news is SSRIF has all one could ask.

Back to Geolog. They owe SSRIF $3.2 million dollars. The good news is that a Canadian Smelter by the name of Cominco handles the processing. Last week SSRIF obtained an injunction to prevent Cominco from delivering the funds in dispute. This week, critical court hearings will take place that will set the tone for the case. Now let me ask you; What do you think will be the chance of recovery when a Canadian court will rule on a Canadian resourse company that has been ripped-off by a bunch of theves and the money is held by another Canadian company?

SSRIF already has a multi-million dollar bankroll and no debt. Add $3 million dollars and the current assets to total capitalization ratio will be as high as you will ever see. All this plus five ounces of silver for every share and one can begin to see the potential! This is why I feel SSRIF at these prices is like owning out of the money options on silver with a very small premium and no expiration date. They have great staying power no matter how long the bear market in PM equities lasts.

3 ) The third reason the stock price has been decimated is the general poor public perception of the PM market. We are in the midst of a super bear. Even kitcoites are throwing in the towel left and right. Funny how investments are the only things people dont't want to buy on sale! When one can buy for pennies on the dollar people run away. And when stocks are three times overpriced they can't get enough.

In summary SSRIF controls a legitamate 75 million ounces of silver with no debt and a self sustaining bankroll with or without a favorable ruling on the Geolog issue. Value.... Value.... Value.... at around a buck!


1 )

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:05 - ID#252286)
Tommy
By your own words

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:10 - ID#252286)
LGB

F*wad already thinks I am every poster who ever pointed out what a fool he is. You keep this up and he will think you are me, or maybe even that I am you, or maybe we are both farfel.

Thanks

*.*

Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:13 - ID#410194)
@Farfel
With the tremendous bull move that took place in the Bond market between March 3rd and today, do you have any comments as to how the friends that you begged not to invest in what turned out like an amazing safe heaven feel today?

Did you hear from them? If they listened, any news about how they feel about missing out such a huge move?

Thanks.

Date: Tue Mar 03 1998 22:03
farfel ( @DONALD...YOU SAY DEFLATION, FRIEDMAN SAYS INFLATION, AND I SAY... ) ID#28585:
NEO-STAGFLATION....

I warned many friends to avoid this Wall Street propagandistic manipulation...in fact, I went down on my knees with some of them and BEGGED THEM not to place any monies in bonds. I categorically predicted the current bearish scenario now unfolding in the bond market; it will only exacerbate as the TORRENT of newly printed money ( printed in the aftermath of the October crash in order to maintain liquidity ) begins to hammer bonds even further over the short-term

Cowgirl
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:22 - ID#34191)
EZBeliever AOL alternative
I use Microsoft Investor as my home page. You can set up multiple accounts, post dividends, and it updates prices every five minutes with I think a 20 minute delay. The DOW at the bottom of the page is fairly current. I think the address is investor.com then Portfolio. I use a LAN, so I can't make a recommendation for replacing server. Lycos.com has a link to a site with hundreds of ISP's, prices, area served, etc.
GO GOLD

P.S my AMCENT Global Gold fund went up today. Why? I thought gold went down?????

Suspicious
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:30 - ID#287312)
This rally is the one
that sucks up the last big chunk of liquitity so that on the next fall margin can't be covered and we can then properly crash.

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:43 - ID#252286)
Tommy


Pardon me, but I once edited an Air Force newspaper, your sentence that reads, "Permission. Quite frankly, I am begining to think your all crazy" Could probably be punched up just a bit and put more in character. Try:

"Permishon. Quite franchkly, I am beginnin to think yer all craszy"

This seems to suit the tone of your post more, dont you think?

Just trying to be helpful.

MoReGoLd
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:44 - ID#348129)
NEWS FLASH: A.G. hints at a second rate cut, on top of his previous one, to help his buddy Clinton
Clinton's job approval rating drops-poll

WASHINGTON, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - President Bill Clinton's job approval rating dropped after he admitted to lying about an ``inappropriate relationship'' with former White House intern Monica Lewinsky and his personal approval ratings plummeted, a new poll said on Tuesday.

The poll said that 56 percent of people approve of the job Clinton is doing, down from the mid-sixties before his televised admission of the affair on August 17.

Clinton's personal approval ratings stood at 26 percent, a 19 percent drop since before the scandal erupted in January. Sixty-two percent of the 1,000 people surveyed disapprove of Clinton personally, the poll said. Pollsters did not ask specifically about the Lewinsky scandal.

The poll was part of Battleground program, a collaboration between a Republican strategist from the Tarrance Group and Democratic pollsters from Lake Snell Parry and Associates. Both sides offered analysis of the latest numbers.

The survey shows that Democrats will be hurt in the upcoming Congressional elections, said Ed Goeas, who interpreted the data from the Republican side.

``The Republican base will continue to be more energized, especially in key swing districts,'' Goeas wrote in the Republican paper. ``That being the case, the impact of the Clinton scandal will ultimately be felt at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue on Election Day.''

The Democrats can avoid this result by focusing on the issues during the fall campaign season, said the Democratic team of analysts.

``The prescription is clear -- move the debate away from values and Clinton and give Democratic voters an agenda behind which they can rally.''

Aragorn III
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:45 - ID#212323)
studiO.r-O
Just now had a chance to scan through the recent history of posts and saw your 15:59. We share the sentiment. Government employees need to view their role not as "regulators" but as "facilitators". Given the off-base approach chosen by these life-less drones, it never fails to amaze me when ANY new mining or drilling operation gets the official "Okey-Dokey".

At least we have ensured that the coming depression is nothing more than the very effect we have upon the ground upon our passing...with pockets heavily laden.

got wealth?

IDT
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:48 - ID#228128)
Oldman
Do you think that we will see the S&P500 MAs or does this rally run out of steam.

Greenstone Gold
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:48 - ID#427265)
Such a likeable chap..........


The many scandals of B.......guess who !

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Dreyer_infonet/guarino.htm

PrivateInvestor
(Tue Sep 08 1998 19:59 - ID#225283)
All re: pbs News Hour w/ Jim L.

Exclent progam this evening:

Economics Prof. Allan Meltzer of C. Mellon U.
vs.
James Gailbraith

Interest rates to cut or not to cut...that is the question...

Meltzer states that an interest rate cut will only weaken dollar and make yen stronger thus plunging all of Asia and the world into the worst Depression ever.

Also excellent piece on Korea/Japan at the end of the broadcast.

If you have a the time and are in the Pacific time zone or Hawaii watch it...or the late rebroadcast in many Central and Eastern time zones.

Grizz
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:04 - ID#424394)
Drug addicted serial killer - not Billy Boy
Heard tonight on Buchanan's Crossfire - the Klinton defenders tried to compare his sexual transgressions with those of America's founding fathers to make the point that he is no worse than they. Ann Coulter responded with the statement that none of them were "drug-addicted serial killers". She wouldn't be alluding to our boy Billy now would she?

P.S. I must get her book "High Crimes and Misdemeanors".
Has anybody else here read it?

cherokee
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:06 - ID#288232)
@...peopleo.more.concerned.with.little.white.balls...than.their.own.ba!!s.....

the peopleo have broken the kraal...and are headed for
greener pastures....their numbers diminshed by the bear
clan's incursions, they said "enough" and stampeded.......

the warnings never heeded, of danger amongst the high steepes...
and of the harshest winter ever..just over the vale...the hill
hides the truth....the legions of the bear clan...pressing
anxiously....knowing the day of the bear is at hand....even
as the blood of their own flows in the streets.....

i predict a group of 'events' will 'break' almost simultaneously
and trigger......well, you know.......the feast of the bear, and
the death of the eagle...

cherokee!;..swtmanhmtdawi...in.phoenix...wearer.of.the.hair.of.the.bear..

Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:07 - ID#26793)
Mexican interest rates soar; peso defense policies put banks in danger
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/bjh.html

Carl
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:10 - ID#341189)
@MoReGoLD - Your catch of latest Clinton job rating poll
Thanks for the catch. I look at the job rating as an index of people's fear. If this is the beginning of a drop in the rating, it is the beginning of an increase in fear - a sign for a gold bottom.

6pak
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:11 - ID#335190)
Market conditions are cloudy @ Merrill Lynch
September 8, 1998

FOCUS-Merrill reports emerging markets loss ( Adds analyst and firm comments

NEW YORK, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Merrill Lynch & Co. Inc. on Tuesday became the latest U.S. securities firm to report that trading losses in emerging markets would hurt its third-quarter results.

Merrill's disclosure follows reports of emerging market losses by other Wall Street houses last week, such as Travelers Group Inc.'s Salomon Smith Barney brokerage unit, Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co. , Lehman Bros Holdings Inc. , and Donaldson Lufkin & Jenrette .

A string of U.S. banks also has disclosed turmoil in debt and stock markets worldwide will hurt their third-quarter results.

But U.S. investment bank Goldman Sachs & Co. , which plans to take the partnership public this fall, told employees on Tueday it had escaped the events in emerging markets relatively unscathed, Goldman sources told Reuters.

Merrill was cautious about the rest of the year, saying current market conditions were cloudy.

"A number of factors --including a contraction of liquidity in the global debt markets, continuing widespread market volatility, potential delays in underwritings and the possibility of slower economic growth globally-- are creating an uncertain operating environment over the near term," Merrill said in the statement. The firm will "implement selective expense reductions," the statement added.
http://www.freecartoons.com/ReutersNews/BROKERS-MERRILL-2NDLD.html

kitkat
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:11 - ID#208393)
Greenspan - Ultimate Power
One man can control WORLD markets with a few words!
That scares the living sh*t out of me.

BCIWN
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:13 - ID#206298)
@ Greenstone
I bought 10k of GRERF today at 1.75. I Think it will get back to 7 before the end of the year.
Why did you pick the handle Greenstone?

BCIWN
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:14 - ID#206298)
@ Greenstone
I meant at 1 7/8.

Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:18 - ID#26793)
Only a week after devaluing peso Columbia if forced to defend the new value.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/bis.html

RJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:18 - ID#411259)
..... JTF, Gollum, and sharefin .....


JTF and Gollum because you understand physics and are poets at heart. Sharefin because you are a poet with the inquisitive heart of a physicist and you are a seagoing laddy as well. This is from a talk to the National Academy of Sciences more than forty years ago, by a strange and wonderful Nobel Laureate.

It has no title:


There are rushing waves
mountains of molecules
each stupidly minding its own business
trillions apart
yet forming surf in unison

Ages on Ages
Before any eyes could see
year after year
thunderously pounding the shore as now
For whom, for what?
On a dead planet
With no life to entertain

Never at rest
tortured by energy
wasted prodigiously by the sun
poured into space
A mite makes the sea roar

Deep in the sea
All molecules repeat
the patterns of one another
till complex new ones are formed
They make others like themselves
and a new dance starts

Growing in size and complexity
living things
masses of atoms, DNA, protein
dancing a pattern ever more intricate

Out of the cradle
onto dry land
here it is
standing:
atoms with consciousness;
matter with curiosity

Stands at the sea
wonders at wondering: I
a universe of atoms
an atom in the universe


Richard Feynman 1955


OK





farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:20 - ID#17077)
RE: PLATINUM QUESTIONS....
...actually, I am a big fan of platinum. I bought my wife a plat/diamond bracelet for Valentine's day. She loved it.

That makes me a buyer of platinum, right?

I only wish platinum prices would soar skyward. My wife and I could make one helluva profit selling that plat bracelet someday. From the profits selling that thing, we could probably buy ourselves a little vacation cottage.

However, if the world economy continues to contract, then unfortunately such deflationary conditions would leave platinum confined to a narrow and down-trending price range over the next several years.

Thanks.

F*

TYoung
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:21 - ID#317193)
In your dreams...and I think you live there...
Tommy

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:23 - ID#17077)
@REALISTIC...did you notice that...
...bond prices fell sharply today?

All that money leaving the bond market was used to propel the DOW today.

A good bull would see both markets moving up together.

It's a bear.

Thanks.

F*

Donald
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:24 - ID#26793)
Dollar/Yen analysis and comment
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/bcr.html

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:24 - ID#252286)
F*Puetz

Are you saying that you do not know the answers to the questions posed?

Mooney*
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:26 - ID#350194)
Pure Gold
O.K. - R.J.

EZ Believer
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:27 - ID#173262)
Thanks Tolerant1, Cowgirl and Trinovant

Trinovant, I searched for ponger.zip and got 15 hits. I assume one of these files will kill the cut-off. Which one?

TYoung
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:27 - ID#317193)
The mind is a dark and dangerous place...don't go there alone those of you
that live in dreams....ouch!!!!

Tommy

MoReGoLd
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:30 - ID#348129)
@Carl
This is the first substantive drop in BC's ratings. Stars report is due out shortly and there are rumors of more disgressions etc, which will surely turn more supporters off. His survival is at risk.......

cherokee
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:31 - ID#288232)
@....i.mean.right.on...........

a gift.....a shard of light from the dark...

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

read on....

kolorado
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:31 - ID#272206)
EZ Believer, jims
I lost a pile of $ in SSRIF. If you bottom fish this one, better watch that Teck Corporation doesn't bail out on them. Teck controls the stock and they are jumpy. I prefer to place my bet on PAASF.

Mooney*
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:32 - ID#350194)
Cold Comfort
Suspicious - I suspect that your are correct. Cherokee - I hope you're NOT! - ( About the dreadful winter, that is ) .

strat
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:32 - ID#93241)
MoReGoLd, kitkat
Clinton's through. Greenspan can't save him. He will only be able to plug so many holes in the dike...and this one ain't gonna have a happy ending. AG can sway the markets but he can't turn the tide. Clinton's in flames and even the Dems are bailing out.

Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:33 - ID#263379)
@ Jujube
You may be right about Bill Clinton's spendings..uh I mean *Fwad. He may indeed think that the multiple posters who have a lick of intellectual integrity, are all going to see him for the fraud he is.

He probably doesn't have any idea just how many hundreds, if not thousands who read these forums, now realize what a transparently phony, "Analyst pretender" buffoon looks like, now that they've seen one up close.

he ought to be an exhibit in a zoo.... or a sideshow at the Circus where they show the amazing "Freaks".

*L

MoReGoLd
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:36 - ID#348129)
@Greenstone
BCIWN: I also took a position here. If this is truly a bottom for Gold then GRE is positioned to move. Im amazed it ever got this low, but im not complaining.......

kitkat
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:37 - ID#208393)
Starr Report to Congress on Friday
Before or after market close? I guess it will depend on the contents.

Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:38 - ID#263379)
@ Jujube..... you don't think there's danger from FED's do you?
A frightening thought just ocurred to me. Didn't I read somewhere that Paranoid, psychotic, Sociopaths were being added to the Federal list of protected minorities?

If so, wouldn't *Fstain CERTAINLY qualify for minority status? As such, we could be guilty of "Hate Speech" if we wax critical of all his pathological, delusional ramblings could we not?

Just a frightening thought that ocurred to me.....


( But not quite as frightening as the knowledge that this *Fwipe actually has sheeplike followers out there who believe he actually knows something about markets!!! )
*L

Highhopes
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:41 - ID#404410)
Empower America - Jack Kemp
A must read on Empower America entitled "Jack Kemp Calls on Pres. Clinton to go 'Beyond Mere Words of Encouragement' and Take Action on the Global Economy.
www.empower.org/html/press/1998/pr090298.htm
He calls for a global gold standard.

Highhopes

Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:41 - ID#263379)
@ Realistic....
Did you realize that the DOW had the largest one day point gain in it's histpry today? A REAL Bull market would never have an UP day like this now would it?

Obviously, the market is crashing, beginning today, and many of us are just too dense to realize it.

Cheese/Puetz/*Fwipe et al's crash predictions for today, and thousand point loss of the DOW this week, are right on target, wouldn;'t you agree? Course that 1000 point loss will have to be a 1400 point loss now won't it?

*L

cherokee
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:43 - ID#288232)
@.....city.of.laser.beams.....from.sol...

moon-man...my.man....

good to 'see' you again.....this winter will be
one for the record books....florida killing freeze...
get your oj calls now......texas with heavy snow.....
time for ho calls tambien .....physics you know........
ng and co too.......

'every action.....equal reaction.....' sir in....

what happened where? look at the past to know the future...

citcots.......ftsabbawtss......yes.sir....!; )


Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:53 - ID#263379)
BearX and S&P Puts
I see that the BearX fund lost 7% today..... and this on top of previous nasty losses it's taken since January. Puetz's S&P Puts must have performed exceptionally well....... ( I know *Fstain has nothing in ANY market, nor does he know anything about ANY market, so we politely won't mention how he's doing... )

Hmmm, I wonder if the folks who follow these "Crash" investment advisors over the past few years, are going to have more than 10 cents left in their investment accounts, for Puts and Gold once the crash really DOES come some day?

Thanks,

*L

PH in LA
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:54 - ID#225408)
RJ/Jujube and Farfel: A Status Report
RJ/Jujube:

Well, I'm baaaack! Got home from sailing out at Catalina last night and tried to skim through the posts of the past 5 days. Did catch your reply over on K-1 in which you declared yourself through with the Farfel-thing, asking me why don't I do the same.

I hereby agree to do what you seem reluctant to do. I will no longer disagree with you over Farfel, either. After all, he seems to be doing very well for himself. Seems like I heard somewhere that one of his essays ( that I believe I originally recognized and posted to K-1 ) was picked up by golden-eagle and published there. Congrats Farfel!

But it might be a mistake to imagine that my loss of interest in Farfel's cause ( that I consistently intended as a defense of intellectual diversity rather than a personal defense of Farfel himself ) implies that you have in any great way succeeded in supressing his voice. On the contrary. In my opinion, some of his jabs have wounded you rather badly, or perhaps it is only that you appear to have shot yourself in the foot. This can be seen, not so much from his gibes and epithets themselves, but rather in the threat you obviously feel from him, as well as the lengths you seem willing to go to extinguish him. This is probably more visible to one who reads through several days of postings ( such as after an absence ) than to the combatant, yourself.

You know, every time you repost his June 29 ravings, he seems to somehow grow in stature? You were advised many times ( by everyone from Disney to Aurator ) to let it go. But you knew better. Now you have built him up to guru status, with his own website ( this one ) and published articles on golden-eagle. Congratulations! Was that your purpose? I doubt it.

Furthermore, your claim that he is actually Puetz seems farfetched at best. Libelous at worst. ( At least to Puetz. ) But you probably think you know better about this too. It does make you seem to be slipping out of touch with reality, though and reinforces the impression that Farfel has somehow gained some illusion of victory. And speaking of buffoons, your silly parodies of his style make you look even more like an intellectual clown than you claim he seems to you.

Yes, I did enjoy the repost of your earlier writings very much. I'm sure that more of the same could easily land your writings at golden-eagle, too. But you seem to prefer wallowing about in the muck of your own memories. I guess you think you know better about that too.

In the end, one is left wondering why you have chosen to take this whole matter so seriously. Did Farfel's silly ravings and epithets, his delusions about the importance of his own writings, even his insults, really offend you so deeply? If so, there must certainly be more to this matter than meets the eye, even as he himself claims. However, with this post I no longer feel that it interests me enough to pursue it further.

Incidentally, looks like your pal Lurky has really found himself a true calling over here. He must feel real big now, kicking when he imagines that he sees a man down. Sort of like chickens, pecking at each other to establish their pecking order. Not a pretty sight, if you have ever witnessed it.

Oh well, he always did seem a little like chicken-sh*t, with all his different monikers ( LGB, Liberty, BUGal, etc. ) and his pseudo-attack, weak, fawning style; which is the same impression you are starting to give, too.

Too bad. Just when I was starting to like you.




HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:57 - ID#401460)
Starr Report Friday

I don't know if this has been posted, all should check it out. Just think the Dow goes up almost 400 pts, a record, and the President is about to be impeached.
http://www.drudgereport.com/

HighRise

Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 20:57 - ID#43349)
@RJ
Thank you. Feynman was one of the greats.

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:03 - ID#252286)
A small man indeed

Yes he is exposed as a phony. Now he is left to think what might have been had he not attacked everybody who had a different opinion. None of this would have ever come to pass. If only he wasnt so hostile and insulting to so many people. If only he had not again and again - as recently as last week - personally attacked posters that have offered far more worth to Kitco that the F wimp could muster in a lifetime. If only he had not let his ego get away from him and his hubris run amuck, the world would not know what a fraud F*Puetz is, nor would he ( as I suspect the F spot himself is becoming dimly aware that he is full of crap and knows very little about anything ) .

Watch out for him now, this is when a beast is truly dangerous, after the mortal wound. He might call up the mob and have us hit. He is very good with the phone, or so I hear; even in contact with Bart to whine about this all being soooooo unfair. He cannot answer the most basic questions regarding platinum, yet he announces the "definitive" take on those markets.

One begins to wonder if he just makes it all up the same way. This has only just begun. I plan on being a pilot fish to this shark and will feed off the crumbs of his numerous mistakes. We cannot allow a new generation of readers to ever forget who and what this madman ( across the water ) is all about.

This is a holy and just cause. If I am Martyred, I predict others will rise to take my place, or Phoenix-like I will rise from my own ashes to once again soar above the clouds.

This is also as it should be.. And so it will be.

Jack
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:06 - ID#237264)
All politicians hack for the blood suckers

There's a problem when politicians, be they American or foreign; set up a gold standard.

These guys are linked to the financial elite who would prefer that gold be priced, so as not to threaten their interests.

In other words the fix will be low, low enough to destroy most producers, who will eventually fall into the hands of those who these politicians are beholding to.

In the event the VERY MINIMUM PRICE for gold should be $600+ per oz, if there were to be an International Gold Standard. On the basis of all the paper circulating around the globe, the gold price would be in the three figures.

6pak
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:06 - ID#335190)
Finding work in England is getting difficult @ Conservative M.P selling drugs. It's a job eh!
Monday, September 7, 1998 Published at 12:57 GMT 13:57 UK

UK Politics

Blair rejects union calls for change

Industry in crisis, say unions and opposition By BBC News online's Nick Assinder.

Tony Blair has rejected demands for a change in government economic policy during a meeting with union leaders in Downing Street.

He insisted that any relaxation in the tough policy would risk destroying the major strides already made towards building a stable economy.

But Mr Blair gave his critics short shrift by pointing out that his government has slashed borrowing from 27bn to 8bn, halved interest rates compared to the 1980s and reduced the underlying rate of inflation from 10% a decade ago to just 2.6%.

Bank of England governor Eddie George is also likely to receive a rough reception when he takes the hugely unusual step of speaking at the TUC Congress.

Mr Blunkett praised the latest 26,000 drop in the jobless total, but conspicuously failed to predict further reductions after several high-profile UK factory closures in recent weeks.

Shadow Trade and Industry Secretary John Redwood said: "The government's economic policies are going to demolish much of British manufacturing.

"In one short year, Labour have changed the UK from the first choice for investment from most global companies into their first choice for factory closures," he said.
http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_166000/166250.stm

Monday, September 7, 1998 Published at 19:26 GMT 20:26 UK
UK Politics

Peer 'shocked' by drugs claims Allegations in the News of the World

The Conservative peer at the centre of newspaper claims that he arranged to sell hard drugs in the House of Lords has said he is the victim of "serious distortions".

Lord Hardwicke has been suspended from the Tory ranks in the Lords after the News of the World reported that he set up a deal to sell cocaine to an undercover reporter on the same day peers were recalled to debate anti-terrorism measures put together after the Omagh bombing.

The paper said 27-year-old Lord Hardwicke sold two grams of the drug to a reporter posing as a businessman, and agreed to arrange further supplies.

"The Conservative Party has a robust anti-drugs policy and we condemn drug-dealing in all forms," she said.
http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_166000/166184.stm

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:10 - ID#254321)
You are getting touchy these days!
Nick@C: As far as I am concerned, the 30% rally in gold equities is without substance, until confirmed with a comparable rise in gold bullion. All we have right now is a quickening in gold equities. As I recall, the Oldman, Bill Buckler, and RJ all are not ready to 'shoot their wad' in gold equities quite yet. So -- I am not the only one 'straddling the fence'.

I lost 10k in gold equjities Oct 97, and am proud to profess bailed out of almost all equities the day before the 20% correction ( much worse in gold equities ) . They make an excellent early warning indicator for the general markets.

By hindsight, should have bought some at the current gold equities bottom, as you did. So -- my hat is off to you if you put all your liquid assets in gold equities at the last bottom, and made 30%, without losing on the earlier downside.

Out of curiousity, do you know the American phrase 'shoot your wad?' It means take all of your safe assets and put them in somthing that appears to be a sure thing.

Please tell the rest of us why you think gold equities are so safe that you can risk all at this point. What if South America implodes in a few days? Will gold equities go up or down? What if CRY0 continues to fall off a cliff?

My best investments by far in the last few months have been in non-US currencies and Mexican index puts -- the latter up nearly 400%.


HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:10 - ID#401460)
62 HOMERUNS

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:12 - ID#401460)
62 HOMERUNS

How about that sports fans!

HighRise

Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:13 - ID#263379)
@ PH in L.A.
Wonderful words of wisdom, spoken as only a true Die Hard socialist Clinton apologist supporter can speak them. Anyone who can read the posts of today, and believe that anyone but *Fstain has taken a beating, is truly challenged. Disability benefits await you.

The one nugget of "Gold" in your lengthy piece, was that you now have done a 180 degree turn and are suddenly and inexplicably embracing free speech for the sake of "In tellectual diversity".... Funny, I remember a couple weeks ago when you felt strongly that I shouldn't be allowed to post on K1 under a new handle...even though Bart had given his permission for me to do so. .

Oh well.... at least it's a small break away from fascist ideology and for this I applaud you. Oh...that and your sudden distancing of yourself from *Fspot now that you see how badly he's being exposed ( once again ) for the vacuous fraud that he is.

By the way, I'm still waiting for YOUR expert take on the markets. I posted mine over the weekend. I called for an UP week for the DOW, down for Gold, gave my reasons and rationale, leading with Greenspan among other things..... and indeed events are unfolding exactly as I anticipated.

But you...the "defender" of diversity of thought,...I have seacrhed so often in vain for your market philosophy, your prognostications, your strategy...things that many of us who you constantly insult, have been posting since we came to Kitco.

Perhaps you can lend us your expertise in these areas for all to see?

Now I won't bore you by correcting each and every ridiculous mis-statement in your lenghty, and lame post, but I would like to remind you of one little factoid.... RJ was ALSO published on Vronsky's site.... but that was in teh "Good old days" when that site still had a little credibility as putting some diverse views forth.....Now it's degenerated into a Flat Earth society hang out. Oh well.

Words have meaning PH. *Fwipe will always be held accountable for his.
But not be HIM of course. In this, he and your OTHER hero Clinton, are exactly alike. Perhaps this is why you love them both so....they do have similar patterns of behaviour when it comes to honesty, integrity, morals. The only difference being of course that Clitton at least has some intelligence.

Thanks for letting us know you're no longer *Fwipes ardent disciple. I'm sure this means you won't be his reposting Lacky any longer, nor his personal verbal bodygaurd since he can now "Speak for himself" in your view


*L


Gollum
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:15 - ID#43349)
McGwire hits #62
8:18 pm cdt 9/8/98

Tantalus
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:17 - ID#317211)
Something today is very,very different for gold.
Dow up 380 pts, yet gold spot only off US$1.20

And up US$0.60 in Asia? What's goin' on here? Spot price would have
been down $8-10 two weeks ago.

STUDIO.R
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:17 - ID#119358)
@gOldbug23 y aragOrn3......
Proudly we shall don the same uniforms in this overdue Revolution2. And we shall bring a great fight to the Houses of these vain governors. And in this strife, they will find themselves to be lost and their lot greatly devalued. For it must be that these polyester-clad professional talkers be stripped of their good grooming, and denied their free eatings. yes,....we stand then. salud! to YA!!! both.

Reify
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:19 - ID#413109)
Tech types & HOPEFULLS
Reading all of the various opinions, it seems that more and more,
the posters here, have a predetermined mind set, which, if they were long
term holders, and weren't watching every move of everyday, would be
fine. However, there are pictures of moves, with information, available
to all ie.
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/data/_charts/achart.htx>http://cbs.marketwatch.com/data/_charts/achart.htx>http://cbs.marketwatch.com/data/_charts/achart.htx
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/data/_charts/achart.htx
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/data/_charts/achart.htx

that kinda tell a story, if one cares to listen, and I for one
would not interpret these as the beginning of a crash.

We have the good fortune of having a pro amongst us, and his ability
has been proven, many times, to the long term Kitcoites that have
followed his comments over the years,with the name of "Oldman".

There is also amongst us another poster, who's take I haven't seen
lately,Mike Sheller, who is an astrologer, amongst his many other talents, and
who's take has been as good as, say, Arch Crawford, or Steve Puetz.
The latter seems to enjoy taking it on the chin, over and over, and
it may be he may prove right someday, probably when noone will be taking
him seriously any longer.
Still others, like DA, who lately only posts occasionally, maybe due to
the summer heat, or prior engagements, who's calls have been more correct
than many who shout daily "explosive up move" or "crash has just started"
or many other overstated comments along those lines.

Every person must do what they feel they must do, however with time being
at a premium, this reader, would enjoy more posts of substance, and the
return of many long lost posters ( the list is endless ) and less chatter
that has little relevance to what this site is intended for. Please
don't fault me for the poor grammer of the last sentence.

Keep the Faith! Buy gold and silver and platinum, on dips!!!

Highhopes
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:20 - ID#404410)
Suggestion
Why doesn't everybody contact their respective Congressperson and let them know that you want a gold standard globally. I did. It's better than leaving messages to each other on this board, and yet, the government is not aware of your concern.
Don't forget that elections are coming up.

Highhopes

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:21 - ID#401460)
A little Red appearing in Asia

http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

HighRise

Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:21 - ID#263379)
@ Jujube
I agree completely with your 21:03. What worthier cause could a man "die" for than to defend truth against intellectual dishonesty? The little "Emperor" has no clothes. This should rightly be pointed out early and often.

In this way, we exercise the very important right of free speech in the way it was intended. The exposure of bankrupt , phony, hypocritical. single minded, psychotic, pathological, Dicatatorial Wanna Be's, with little knowledge, and even smaller amounts of integrity.

This free speech thing will prevent a "Hitler" wanna be, from ever coming to power in our glorious land. This free speech thing will expose even a smooth slippery worm like Clinton as the fraud he is, EVEN during times of prosperity!

I love this place! ( The U.S. AND the Kitco forum...though the first may outlast the latter! )

*L

Goldteck
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:24 - ID#431200)
Canadian consortium (Noranda Inc. Rio Algom Ltd. and Teck Corp) to decide on Peru copper mine
Friday, September 4, 1998 TORONTO, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - A powerful Canadian mining consortium denied on Tuesday that turmoil in international financial markets would force it to seek a delay of an impending deadline to develop the massive Antamina copper project in Peru.

 The consortium, which includes Canada's Noranda Inc. , Rio Algom Ltd. and Teck Corp. , must formally commit to developing Antamina, one of Latin America's most prized mining projects, by September 16, or forfeit its rights.

 Growing fears of a global economic downturn and its impact on stagnant metals markets had led to speculation the consortium had asked or would ask the Peruvian government to postpone the deadline and allow the companies more time to arrange Antamina's financing.

 Consortium members dismissed the rumor as unfounded.

 "That's wrong. We are working to the September 16 deadline which was in the original contract and we will make an announcement by that time," said Rio Algom's Corey Copeland, a spokesman for the consortium.

 Copeland said the consortium remained positive about Antamina, but he refused to indicate whether it was close to giving the green light to the project, located about 385 kilometres northeast of Lima in the remote Peruvian Andes.

 The high-grade Antamina deposit could, if developed, become one of the world's largest copper producers. A feasibility study released in March indicated the mine could produce 600 million pounds of copper and 360 million pounds of zinc annually over a 20-year period.

 But the $2.5 billion needed to finance a mine and processing facilities has already forced one Canadian company, Inmet Mining Corp. , to bow out of the project.

 Toronto-based Inmet had planned to share Antamina with Rio Algom until earlier this year, when the project's price tag prompted nervous shareholders to lobby for the sale of Inmet's 50-percent stake.

 Toronto-based Rio Algom and Noranda now own 37.5 percent each of a partnership formed to develop Antamina. Vancouver-based Teck owns the rest.

 A decision not to go ahead with Antamina would be a crushing setback to Peru which has suffered a string of delays to major investment projects, including the withdrawal of Mobil and Royal Dutch Shell from the $3 billion Camisea natural gas project.

 Peru's economy has been hard hit by the Asian financial crisis and the impact of freak El Nino weather on the economy. The Peruvian government had counted on international investment to help it cope with a widening current account deficit.

 ( $1=$1.52 Canadian )



JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:25 - ID#254321)
So -- Richard Feynman wrote poetry -- good poetry!
RJ: Thank you for gracing the virtual space of Kitco with such a work of art -- from one of my favorites. One cannot learn Physics without reading the Feynman CalTech Lecture Series from beginning to end -- and then again.

I knew he loved Bongo Drums, and was a very colorful sort -- but quality poetry I did not expect.

That poem describes local entropy violation -- eddies in the space-time continuum where life eventually coalesced from the elements -- when it should not have happened according to the Second Law of thermocynamics.

Even Feynman's lecture series -- which I am looking at right now -- do not describe how life could have formed on this planet. Should not have happened.

So -- now we know that local fluctuations can occur in entropy, and order can arise from disorder -- as long as excess external energy is available -- with cyclic oscillations near a critical opalescence point.

By the way, I also have several collections of Einstein's works -- one titled Ideas and Opinions ( essays ) , and one in a book called 'The Art of Creative writing'. I have yet to come across a poem that Einstein wrote, but I expect that he did, too.

Have you noticed that mathematicians, poets and musicians have alot in common?


AZAU
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:26 - ID#247273)
JTF; Jack
JTF: You are certainly correct in your reservations. The only thing that really makes sense is that at least the inverse relationship of gold and gold equities to the stock market are being restored, imho.
My major concern is that it has only recently turned this way.
And further, the trend seems to be shifting slowly. I do not foresee
an instantaneous shift; there is just too much inertia the other way.
Wait and strike when you are convinced, you may lose a few $$, but still recognize the primary, larger trend. Keep up your keen observations.
Jack: Yes, the manipulation of gold price is possible; but as discussed here previously, the gold standard imposes more discipline than paper and its concomitant profligacy or "looseness", as we are about to witness with His Majesty A.G.
imho

Flash
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:28 - ID#301318)
Gold Equities/$Gold
Interesting observation by my fund manager. The nominal price movement of gold equities to price of gold ratio is 3:1. The movement last week was 5:1!

Cherokee: Up here in the northern woods we have already unpacked the wool long johns. Last two nights the heat kicked in! Time to set sail for the S. Pacific isles. Bon voyage!

EZ Believer
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:28 - ID#173262)
Kolorado.... All PM investors have taken some hits!
PAASF has some strong following from some very smart people, like Adrian Day. Secondly, they are a producer. Certainly this separates the real companies from the wannabees. This certainly makes PAASF more attractive to institutional investors when the tide turns. However, there is a leverage factor that is missing. A quick look to the 52 week performance illustrates my point.

PAASF High 12 9/8 Aprox. 6

SSRIF High 5.63 9/8 Aprox.1

This may be simplistic, and it is only one factor; but what if both companies rise to their 52 week high? What would be the ROR in each case?

Lets look at a cash vs stock price comparison.

PAASF 23,900,000 shares 35.3 Cash = $1.47 share
per share cash to stock price 25%

SSRIF 15,321,000 shares 3.8 Cash = $.25 share
per share cash to stock price 25%

Lets assume SSRIF wins it's lawsuit

SSRIF 15,321,000 shares 6.8 Cash = $.47 share
per share cash to stock price 47%

Go ahead Teck, make my day!

Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:28 - ID#410194)
@Farfel Ref: The bond market
But even with today's drop, the bond market is still close to a full 9 points above the level of the beginning of March. We are talking about a major bull market that took off at around that time so when you went down on your knees to convince your friends not to put their money into the bond market by categorically predicting a bear market, did you convince some of them and if so, how are they reacting today looking at what they missed?

Thanks.

Date: Tue Mar 03 1998 22:03
farfel ( @DONALD...YOU SAY DEFLATION, FRIEDMAN SAYS INFLATION, AND I SAY... ) ID#28585:
NEO-STAGFLATION....

I warned many friends to avoid this Wall Street propagandistic manipulation...in fact, I went down on my knees with some of them and BEGGED THEM not to place any monies in bonds. I categorically predicted the current bearish scenario now unfolding in the bond market; it will only exacerbate as the TORRENT of newly printed money ( printed in the aftermath of the October crash in order to maintain liquidity ) begins to hammer bonds even further over the short-term

Charles Keeling
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:31 - ID#344225)
@ The scene RE: off shore heaven
eland: Your 17:51

I think it can be done without the expense of the Seminar.

1. Get an off shore Corporation. Nassau or Panama is good.
Barbados is nice. You become the one and only Corporate officer,
and you take possesion of the corporate seal. Your name is not
public, and it is against the law of the offshore Country to
release the name of the owner of the Company.

2. Open a bank account, in the country you select, under the name of
the offshore Corporation. They will give you an international
credit card that is not subject to the scrutiny of the USA. Your
"corporate" spending is done in secret.

3. Move your cash assets & stocks & bonds to the
bank account that is held by your Corporation.

4. Assign your real estate over to the Corporation. Thereby your
Corporation owns all of your real estate holdings. Even your
vehicles can be owned by this "secret" Corporate structure.

5. Run your business through the Coproration.

6. Get an offshore "office", or live offshore and get a USA "office".
Obtain a second passport. Costa Rico can help you with this.
For a fee, so can Nassau or Panama.

Stay where you desire, but you do need to travel 2-4 times
a year in order to keep both passports.

You are now an International business man. Your offshore account is tax free. Even the interest/dividends earned on your account is tax free. You never pay taxes again to the USA. You have now turned your back on the National Debt that has been incurred by the Government of the USA. You have thumbed your nose at the income taxes that are imposed by the USA. Social Security taxes become a thing of the past. You dont't have
to concern yourself with the welfare state that is rapidly developing here in the USA.
Your new "country" may, or may not, impose some form of taxes after 3-5 years. If taxes are imposed, they will be realtively very, very low. You can't be sued, because you are operating under the protection of a corporate umbrella that is extremely hard to pierce.

Now----invest and deal with your counterparts, because they will ceratinly be very profitable since they to will be in a very low, or non existant, tax bracket. There are many very exclusive watering holes where you will find many famous Americans that speak your language. You may run into Suharto, some of the new Russian elite, Congressmen,
Senators, or even Bill & Hillary after they "retire". Hollywood super stars are represented. You will find them lounging on their corporate yachts, or gambling in the casinos.

So kick back, have a pina colado, and enjoy ! But be sure you invest heavy in precious metals, because the dollar is going into heavy descent. Many of the heavy movers & shakers who can afford good legal advice have been doing this for years and years. Now it has reached the level of the middle class.

I am for you. Go GOLD/SILVER



Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:34 - ID#263379)
@ PH in L.A. ....Kicking a "Man" when he's down?
PH, I promsied not to dissect your tome, but indeed there IS one great mis-statement of fact in it, that is so grievelously incorrect, that I must respond.

You said;

"Incidentally, looks like your pal Lurky has really found himself a true calling over here. He must feel real big now, kicking when he imagines that he sees a man down"

The problem here should be obvious. That's the use of the word "Man".... as far as kicking an *Fwipe when it's down...oh indeed, I consider it a calling all right, and one that will continue.

But I take exception to "Man"... I would never kick a "Man" when he's down. A coward maybe, a fraud perhaps, A purveyor of false and misleading information, yeah.....a pathalogically psychotic schizoid mental patient....maybe, an Delusional Wanna be cult Guru...I think so...but never a man.

*L

small investor
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:35 - ID#105143)
GOLDEN OLDIES
Gold mining companies represent long term call options on Gold, silver, and other precious metals they may own. Page 46 of this weeks Barrons goes over the largest of the gold funds. What was interesting was how small their market cap. ( 308.40 million was the largest ) .

a few billion dollars could buy the whole market. The total market cap for Dell computer is only 80 billion dollars. One could take two billion and buy all the Gold funds. Even if the entire pc sales is 160 billion, your money would be better in Dell? ( think about that one for a while ) .

I dont mean to pick on Dell but a computer is like a telephone, everyone will be making them. Back to Gold, Alan Greenspan threw in the towel and told the world that the dying patient could get another pain killer.

The patient is so very ill but constantly crying for more pain killer.

I really think we may be in the eye of the Hurricane. Go outside and it is calm. Everthing is ok. Everthing is ok. Everthing is ok. everthing is ok. But our gut tells us this is different than 1987, 1990, 1993 ,1973 and 1929-1933. This is different. Only god has the script.

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:36 - ID#17077)
PALLADIUM QUESTIONS....I like Palladium too...
...as you know, Palladium is used in the manufacture of computer components.

I own a computer and I hope to buy an I-MAC for my wife in the not-too-distant future.

So, palladium has been very good to us. It is a wonderful metal and I cannot sing its praises enough. Don't ever suggest I am anti-palladium, no, not me!

However, again, if computer sales should continue their seemingly inexorable global tumble, then I would not expect Palladium to move within a narrow downward trending range of price. I think we have seen Palladium's highs now.

Thanks.

F*

EB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:39 - ID#230216)
this.....this kitco......'tis truly AMAZING it's peopleos.....

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:34
THE GOLDEN PROPHET ( REALISTIC ) ID#372262:
THE DOW RALLY IS NOW OVER!! DOWN HARD INTO THE END OF THE
WEEK!!! SHORTIN' ALL THE WAY UP!! AS I'M A LONG TERM DISinvestor!!
--------------------------------------
Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:42
Gianni Dioro ( Dow finishing ABC counter rally? ) ID#384350:
IMO, the Dow is making the "C" portion in an ABC pattern off its Sep 1 low. This rally
should finish by tomorrow morning, then it all goes downhill from there.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:48
Gianni Dioro ( Golden Prophet - I Agree ) ID#384350:
This Rally finished at the close. Them Guppies took this one a bit too far, putting in 2
days of rally into one day. When there is no follow through tomorrow, it will fade & just
get worse thru Friday.
------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:37
Spud Master ( Anyone want to bet on a hard fall at the close??? ) ID#28586:
This market smells worse than a week old dead catfish in an East Texas roadside ditch.
Eke!
--------------------------------------------

I'll print this again Friday................... or you all can print it for me ;- )

---------------------------------
In the face of a 500+pt sell off it is a market crash. In the face of an almost 400 pt rally it is STILL a CRASH! ......HUH???!???!?? Crazy stuff this market and it's affect on Bugs. too bad really.....

Volatility usually signals a bottom to me. Buy then I am just a plain stoooopid roadside-kill-guppy-sheep being led to the slaughter house. Kill me quickly.........one bullet please.

Isn't it great that I give ya'all ammo to trash me good if there really is a crash? There I am......giving AGAIN.....ALWAYS GIVIN' never takin........give give give give. I know, give me a break..............go gold.

Where is the Spyder Crazy CheeZey DuDe? And his buddy the Blooooped??

btw....... ( more ammo ) . I went long the dollar today near the close for the first time in a while ( short term bottom in place ) . It is oversold and there will be a decent rally in next few days ( maybe ) . I also sold me some Dmark too ( short term top in place ) . Didn't touch that en though........scares me sometimes. And I really wanted to sell gold but didn't even though every bone in my body tells me down down down from here......I wanted a bigger rally. It is NOT overbought yet and could rally a bit more.............even though our resident La Jolla Beach Boy has been calling for producer selling at 290 ( or so ) . Time is the equalizer..............EH?

Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock. The dow bug is RUNNING up the clock......the clock struck...............or stuck?
away...to eat din-din
EBgiver


StudioR - Mayo??!? Use crisco next time...............and play a game of twister too...........yahoo!!

go gold!

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:39 - ID#17077)
PALLADIUM QUESTIONS...CORRECTION...


However, again, if computer sales should continue their seemingly inexorable global tumble, then I WOULD expect Palladium to move within a narrow downward trending range of price. I think we have seen Palladium' highs now.

Thanks.

F*

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:40 - ID#401460)
Swaps, Derivatives, and GE

CNBC, NBC, MSNBC, Parent Company has a big day, now you know why the market went up today. Big brother most likely initiated the move starting with ASIA
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/9n.html

My guess is all of the other family members, AIG, Boeing, Goldman Sachs, Chase Bank Etc., were out today making a bundle today as last week, playing the markets dramatic engineeered moves........IMHO

HighRise

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:42 - ID#17077)
PALLADIUM QUESTIONS..oops, CORRECTION FROM 21:36 POST:
Sorry for the lack of specificity.

Here it is:


"However, again, if computer sales should continue their seemingly inexorable global tumble, then I WOULD expect Palladium to move within a narrow downward trending range of price. I think we have seen Palladium'
highs now."

Thanks.

F*

pyramid
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:43 - ID#217268)
Warren Buffett
I will believe the stock market has hit bottom and is on the rebound when I hear Warren Buffett has sold his position in silver.

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:46 - ID#17077)
@REALISTIC...concerning the bonds bubble...
...as you are well aware, in any bubble market, it is often difficult to predict the precise point when the bubble will burst.

However, I do not regret going down on my knees and pleading with friends and relatives to avoid bonds several months back. They are sleeping much more peacefully now, I think.

As you are well aware, when a bubble bursts, it is an amazingly fast event. There never is enough time for the average investor to get out. NEVER.

All those jammed phone lines you know.

THanks.

F*

EB
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:47 - ID#230216)
highrise
62?? AWESOME! AGULP to ya Mark McGwire! GO man GO! 70! 80! GO GO GO!!! I loves Baseball...uh huh.
away....to catch Stuart Scott.......he must be butta cause he's on a roll!!
EBeaUtiful ( ! )

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:51 - ID#254321)
We are born of cycles
Just a thought --

All life was born in a cyclic cauldron of energy --

Semi-stably shifting back and forth near critical points

in the condensation of matter.

Is it no surprise that our actions are still governed by cycles, even though we do not consciously sense them?

But -- we do observe these many cycles in the life around us --

The lunar cycles in the feeding of fish,

even when the oceans are missing and only the moon remains.

We may be capabable of independent thought, intellectual flights of fancy, creations of great brilliance --

But -- we are still creatures born of cycles.

When we learn what time really is,

we will begin to understand our cyclic essence.


farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:51 - ID#17077)
@PH in LA...good to see your back...
...please continue your highly literate posts.

Thanks.

F*

P.S. As you know, immediately following my post here, you can expect that one of several Multiple Personality posters will repost my old parody of RJujube going beserk in which I launched a verbal missile at you.

Naturally, please ignore it since I believe you are one of the more interesting intellectuals at Kitco.

Thanks.

F*

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:52 - ID#17077)
@PH in LA...oops, just a little spelling error...
...corrected: it's good to see YOU'RE BACK!

Thanks.

F*

D.A.
(Tue Sep 08 1998 21:56 - ID#7568)
some.currency.musings
All:

I've yet to see a reasonable explanation as to what the Japanese gov. is up to with regards to the Yen so I have invented one. Here goes.

For some time now, many thoughtful economists have been calling on the Japanese to reliquify their economy by simply printing Yen and buying up all the government debt around. Rates will be driven to 0 if necessary, all with the idea of providing M growth and breaking the liquidity trap.

This theoretical economic fix would work just fine if ( and this is a very big if ) the Japanese were a world unto themselves. In the real world, with open investment borders, Japan is just one of many places where capital may flow to or from. What is apparent, is that the Yen printing strategy will do no more than devalue the Yen, and destroy the wealth of the country in the process.

I believe that the Japanese are quite aware of this possibility having seen what capital flight has done to their neighboring countries. They are apparently smart enough not to fall into the same trap.

Knowing that the Japanese people and their corporations hold massive amounts of overseas investments, the Japanese government is hell bent on calling that capital home. If the people can be given a reason to invest their money in Japan as opposed to US treasuries, DM stocks or Russian Rubbles, the vast savings of the Japanese can be forced into investments at home. The hope must be that this investment will kick start the moribund economy.

The best reason that the Japanese gov. can come up with for capital repatriation, is that the investments abroad do not perform as well as those at home. This is afterall ( other than a little diversification ) the only reason for the capital to head offshore in the first place.

By engineering a rally in the Nikkei and a radical reversal of the Yen, they are causing a return flight of capital. It would not be surprising to find them following the strategy of Yen printing once the capital flows have been reversed and the Yen is soaring.

On a related topic, it is interesting to see that some are now begining to question the rate hikes in Mexico, as counterproductive. Having seen the same strategy go down in flames in half a dozen countries over the last year and change, and seeing the beginings of a failure in Mexico, the powers that be are at least scratching their collective heads. Its a start.

What governments are starting to learn is that capital flows and herd mentality can run roughshod over any all barriers put in place to stop them and any economic 'fundamentals' supposedly in place. If governments can can begin thinking globally instead of locally, then there is a good chance that the recessionary impulses can be brought under control. If not, its going to get very, very ugly indeed.

Go Yen, Go Gold

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:00 - ID#401460)
Interesting View Tonight

Take a look.
http://www.mrci.com/qpnight.htm f

HighRise

STUDIO.R
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:05 - ID#119358)
@jtfO...EBasebOl has been berry good to me..........
jtfO..........WoW! to your 21:51.....amazing grace.

ebO.......next time I'm @ranchO santa fe...I'll check in or out "scripTs" and maybe, el jojja. hear they treat gill cancer in fish with some degree of success....whew! ohmy! dis kitco. back to my kelp ciggies.

TYoung
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:13 - ID#317193)
Those than will "kill" in the name of God...have been seen before...
and, apparently, still exist...in the land of dreams! OUCH...again!

Tommy

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:15 - ID#17077)
WORTHY OF A REPOST...and additional comments.
D.A....NOW you're thinking!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:56
D.A. ( some.currency.musings ) ID#7568:
Copyright  1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All:

I've yet to see a reasonable explanation as to what the Japanese gov. is up to with regards to the Yen so I have
invented one. Here goes.

For some time now, many thoughtful economists have been calling on the Japanese to reliquify their economy by
simply printing Yen and buying up all the government debt around. Rates will be driven to 0 if necessary, all with
the idea of providing M growth and breaking the liquidity trap.

This theoretical economic fix would work just fine if ( and this is a very big if ) the Japanese were a world unto
themselves. In the real world, with open investment borders, Japan is just one of many places where capital may
flow to or from. What is apparent, is that the Yen printing strategy will do no more than devalue the Yen, and
destroy the wealth of the country in the process.

I believe that the Japanese are quite aware of this possibility having seen what capital flight has done to their
neighboring countries. They are apparently smart enough not to fall into the same trap.

Knowing that the Japanese people and their corporations hold massive amounts of overseas investments, the
Japanese government is hell bent on calling that capital home. If the people can be given a reason to invest their
money in Japan as opposed to US treasuries, DM stocks or Russian Rubbles, the vast savings of the Japanese can
be forced into investments at home. The hope must be that this investment will kick start the moribund economy.

The best reason that the Japanese gov. can come up with for capital repatriation, is that the investments abroad do
not perform as well as those at home. This is afterall ( other than a little diversification ) the only reason for the
capital to head offshore in the first place.

By engineering a rally in the Nikkei and a radical reversal of the Yen, they are causing a return flight of capital. It
would not be surprising to find them following the strategy of Yen printing once the capital flows have been
reversed and the Yen is soaring.

On a related topic, it is interesting to see that some are now begining to question the rate hikes in Mexico, as
counterproductive. Having seen the same strategy go down in flames in half a dozen countries over the last year
and change, and seeing the beginings of a failure in Mexico, the powers that be are at least scratching their
collective heads. Its a start.

What governments are starting to learn is that capital flows and herd mentality can run roughshod over any all
barriers put in place to stop them and any economic 'fundamentals' supposedly in place. If governments can can
begin thinking globally instead of locally, then there is a good chance that the recessionary impulses can be
brought under control. If not, its going to get very, very ugly indeed.

Go Yen, Go Gold

----------------------

D.A. ...not only is it possible that the Asians are orchestrating a potential sizable rally in their native markets...BUT wouldn't it be interesting if they are also helping to pump up a "false" rally here in America?

Why?

Because if they can add that extra amount of froth to the existent American bubble, then all they need to do is withdraw their capital at one fell swoop. Therein is the pin that would prick the American market's bubble! Scary thought.

As foreign capital races to escape the Wall Street debacle, it will look for somewhere else to park itself. If simultaneouly, the Asian markets are either steady or even strengthening, then foreign flight capital will race to Asia.

Would the Asians unite to do something like this? Search me.

Are they doing it? Good question.

But it's an interesting academic question , isn't it?

Thanks.

F*

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:16 - ID#401460)
Copper Surges

CRB was up today, even with Gold down, think about it. Gold is always down when another or other commodities surge, one of these days they will have to let them go up together.
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/980908/commoditie_1.html

HighRise

xau5
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:17 - ID#210163)
Yen and the meeting
Could the meeting between Miazawa and Rubin be because Japan is going to sell their bonds and we didnt want them to?. As you have posted before DA the fed holdings of bonds are declining.The Yen is acting very strong. The move in gold stocks was not an accident last week. Something is up and it could just be hedge fnds getting called on their gold loans. Interesting times are upon us.

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:17 - ID#254321)
Is Japan bottoming?
D.A.: Fascinating theory about Japan. They have had 10 years of deflation, and see other economies in ruins all about them.

What you describe makes sense -- entice their foreign assets back home by strengthening the Yen, and propping up the Japanese markets long enough for the process to take hold.

I remember one of Aesop's fables. The Wind and the Sun were discussing how to get a solitary man to take off his coat.

The Wind said: 'Let me blow the coat off -- it will be easy'. But, no matter how hard the wind blew, all the man did was to hold on to the coat even tighter about his body.

The Sun said: 'This is easy.', and proceeded to gently bathe the man in warmth. Once the Wind had died down, the man eagerly took off his coat.

It seems to me that the IMF is more like the Wind -- forcing a response from markets in crisis, by raising interest rates among other things, only worsening the crisis. The Japanese may have chosen the Sun. It is fortunate that they are such good savers, and still have so much foreign wealth. Few countries ( the USA included ) are so well prepared for hard times.

It may not be long before the tables have turned again, and we look once more to Japan for investment capital.


TYoung
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:21 - ID#317193)
waiting for the "cut & paste"...to see the lie in dreamland...OUCH...
again.

Tommy

Marshall
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:23 - ID#293211)
ON Nexxt Stumble of DOW expect WAR on metals to Start

interests will soon dump huge amounts of gold on the market to
artificially deflate its value.
When the price of gold declines while paper declines people
lose confidence in its ability to protect them from financial
ruin, and sell their gold in an attempt to control losses. This
is a strategy employed by those in power who's goal is to
strip the gold from public hands... a major goal of Marxist
socialists who must eliminate the middle class. Wise men
and women will buy and buy and buy gold and silver
whenever the opportunity of falling prices will permit.
When paper fails, as all historical precedent tells us will
happen, gold will rule the market and the economy. Those
who possess gold and silver will be the survivors and the
controllers of that crisis.
Stock Ticker

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:23 - ID#401460)
"The Consortium"

5 Satellites in Place

Who all is part of "the consortium"?
Boeing, Motorolla.....who else?
http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news100g.htm

HighRise

Envy
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:23 - ID#219363)
In Defense
Regarding numerous postings this evening meant to chastise the folks calling for a market tank ( Peutz, Cheesehead, Blooper, et al ) . I'm interested in what these people have to say. I'm also interested in what the folks who say just the opposite post. I'm interested in what Gold shorts have to say, Gold bulls, Yen bulls, hell, I'm interested in just about everything that gets posted on this forum for one reason or another. Please don't chastise these folks in an attempt to keep them from posting their opinions - they all have at least one reader, me. That doesn't mean I think they're right, but I'm still very interested in what everyone here has to say and resent any efforts to censor them through peer pressure. And in Peutz's defense specifically - I suspect that if someone had traded with his strategy ( September crash ) , they wouldn't be feeling any pain at this moment and would be quite happy with the prediction. My thought is that Peutz just puts himself too far out there on the line by calling exact days for things to happen - but I'm certainly not going to discount his prediction based on a one day 380 point rally after a 10-20 percent loss. Call me crazy. As far as I'm concerned, this thing can go either way, and I want to know what other people have to say about it.

darkwing
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:23 - ID#215249)
EZ Believer
Hi,
I hate that annoying AOL timer also. You can get a share program from downolad.com that will stop that from happening. Once you get to the download page type in aol. Then search for KillTimer v4.8. Download it and a text file comes along with it for information on installing it.

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:25 - ID#254321)
You are the artist
StudioR: Thank you.

As far as I am concerned, I only dabble in the arts. But you are a professional artist -- that is much more. Perhaps someday you can tell us which profession is your favorite - the one that probably puts most of the food on your table -- or your musical profession.

At work I find those individuals who have more than their day job have much richer, more interesting, fulfilling lives. Good release, too.

darkwing
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:27 - ID#215249)
EZ Believer
Opps,
That should be download.com
If you have any questions you can e-mail me at eddyp123@aol.com

Suspicious
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:29 - ID#287312)
JTF: What will happen to the Japanese market when
they see their best customer's market bite the dust, US. They will know that Americans just stopped spending....and so will other markets.

Aussie
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:32 - ID#250236)
India Gold demand up





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Full story
Indians sink savings into gold as economy
suffers
08:22 a.m. Sep 08, 1998 Eastern

By Sabyasachi Mitra

BOMBAY, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Economic uncertainty is
driving Indians to their old love -- gold -- but the
romance is damaging the nation's sputtering economy,
analysts said on Tuesday.

The trade deficit has widened, draining currency
reserves, and stashing funds in an unproductive asset is
hindering investment in an economy desperate to regain
momentum, they said.

Data for the first two months of 1998/99 ( April/March )
show that gold and silver imports soared to $1.11 billion
from $139 million in the same period a year earlier.

``This sharp increase in gold and silver imports at a time
when gold prices are falling internationally, shows the
desperation of Indian households to protect their assets
from continuous erosion,'' Anindya Chatterjee, head of
markets research at ANZ Investment bank, said in a
report.

World Gold Council ( WGC ) data shows that from
January to July, India imported 384 tonnes of gold via
official channels, up from from 273 tonnes in the same
period a year earlier.

The jump in gold imports has pushed up overall imports
and widened the trade deficit, analysts said.

Rajan Govil, economist at HSBC Securities, said
non-petroleum, oil and lubricant imports, excluding gold,
between October 1997 and May 1998 grew by 5.5
percent on a year earlier.

But including gold, the rise was around 14 percent, he
said.

``Definitely gold is a major culprit,'' Govil said.

The trade deficit in April-July rose to $3.3 billion from
$1.8 billion a year earlier.

``Widening of the trade deficit in financial year 1998/99
is largely explained by the increase in gold imports,
which is equivalent to a flight of capital,'' Chatterjee said.

Analysts said a widening trade deficit would undermine
the rupee, which has already lost over six percent of its
value against the dollar in the wake of India's nuclear
tests in May.

India's demand for gold jumped by 33 percent to 458.2
tonnes in the first two quarters of calendar 1997, the
WGC said in its latest report.

Gold prices on the Bombay Bullion Exchange stood at
4,200 rupees ( $98.84 ) per 10 grammes on Monday,
marginally firmer than the 4,170 rupees it fetched six
months ago.

International prices have fallen from around $309 an
ounce to around $288 over the same period.

The WGC said low prices and liberalised imports
continued to underpin demand.

The Indian government last October liberalised bullion
import rules, authorising eight banks to import and sell
gold in the domestic market in addition to the three
state-run agencies.

It has since added more banks and agencies to the list.

But a head of commodity trading at a foreign bank said
the spurt in gold imports was triggered by precautionary
buying in May on anticipation of an increase in import
tariffs.

India raised import duties on gold to 250 rupees per 10
grams from 220 rupees in its 1998/99 budget,
announced in June. But the duty hike has not taken the
shine off gold for Indians.

Analysts said a sharp fall in exports, stagnant investment,
political instability and a fragile rupee had harmed
confidence, driving investors back to traditional safe
havens.

ANZ's Chatterjee said households were shifting their
savings from shares and debentures to bank deposits
and gold.

The Reserve Bank of India's annual report released on
Friday showed the household sector's investment in
shares and debentures as a percentage of gross financial
assets fell to 1.8 percent in 1997/98 from 7.3 percent in
1995/96.

Suspicious
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:34 - ID#287312)
I think we'll see this week end
DOWN for the equities.

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:36 - ID#401460)
Japan

IMHO, Japan will come out on top! They are loaded with cash and US $ and US Bonds. Their people are hurting right now but the Government is finacially strong compared to any other country in the world. Just look at their trade balance with the rest of the World.

The US is being forced to fund all of the IMF bailout programs. The US has been printing money like crazy, Japan is now pulling the plug.
Just look at the repetitive news postings the last week. They all sound very confrontational.

Read Japan's comments on reports of AG's rate decrease, they say no rate decrease. They can only say this if they know that US Bond rates are going to have to go up.

Just a thought or two. Probably not worth much.

GO GOLD!!!

HighRise


Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:36 - ID#263379)
@ *Fwipe
Re your reposts and PH posts, I simply can't remember the last time I saw someone's nose so far up someone else's nether regions. You truly are getting desperate dude. What is it...you want PH to resume being your tail wagging little lap dog so you can get more of your drivel reposted on K1?

Why don't you come over there yourself under a new handle? Can't afford the new account fee / IP address after your market losses?

There would be elements of humor here if it all wasn't so pathetic.

Post on Mr. Market expert , analyst, *Fwipe... and keep those brown nose comments coming, they speaks volumes about you.

*L

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:37 - ID#17077)
Hmmmm...another analyst moves into Farfel's STAGFLATION camp....
...very interesting indeed.

Thanks.

F*
-------------------------------------

by Steven Jon Kaplan
Back Issue List
Updated @ 7:40 p.m. EDT, Tuesday, September 8, 1998.
Talk with Steve Kaplan




DOES ANYONE REMEMBER STAGFLATION? ( sorry, baby boomers, this has nothing to do with
frat parties ) . Recently long-term U.S. interest rates appear to have bottomed, while short term rates
continue to drop, and corporate yields are widening over similar-term U.S. Treasuries. These trends
are typical of an economy which is experiencing a combination of increasing inflation ( thus the rising
long-term yields ) and the early stages of recession ( hence the widening spread for corporates, as the
risk of bankruptcy increases ) . Such a combination is ideal for gold, particularly if the Federal
Reserve decides that the risk of a severe recession is greater than the risk of inflation. Alan
Greenspan's comments on Friday evening seem to support this scenario; when the head of the Fed
proclaims publicly, if obliquely, that inflation is not a serious threat, this is giving the green light for
a major commodities rally. Confirmation of the bottom in the 30-year Treasury yield can be found in
the sentiment readings for Treasury bonds; as of the latest samplings, a 77% bullish reading from
Market Vane and a 70% bullish reading from Consensus. Both numbers are at historic extremes.

JTF
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:40 - ID#254321)
US markets bite the dust?
Suspicious: Perhaps D.A. has an answer. My guess is that the Japanese are fed up with being under our ( fiat currency ) umbrella. If they could, they would expand trade with Europe, Southeast Asia, and South America. Come to think of it, althought we are still their biggest customer, I think much of Japanese trade pre-Oct 97 was not with us at all.

The Japanese like to think very long term -- even 100 years into the future -- for better or worse. If is very likely that they foresee a time when the US is a minor trading partner, secondary to their SEAsian partners.

If we get through our current difficulties relatively unscathed, there will probably be three large trading blocks: The Americas, the EMU, and Asia/SouthEast Asia.

My guess is that Asia/SouthEast Asia will be first to recover. Partially because they were first to falter. We are probably repeating the 1929 - 1935 era, albeit imperfectly. Those that fell first, recovered first.


HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:41 - ID#401460)
HK
Hong Kong
Hang Seng
^HSI
10:47PM
8094.28
-94.97
-1.16%

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:43 - ID#17077)
@LGBUGal...again, thanks for such kind comments...
...is your employer getting on your case again?

Calm down, my friend. It can't be THAT bad.

Incidentally, I will be posting much more often on Vronsky's golden-eagle in the future. I truly enjoy his site and the many fascinating, knowledgeable analysts there.

I like Bart and KITCO...however, there is just so much high emotionalism on this site now, don't you think? It is hard to get an argument across without a torrent of abuse immediately posted thereafter.

Thanks

F*

Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:45 - ID#263379)
@ Realistic...concerning the DOW bubble
( *F spot properly modified post... ) ...as you are well aware, in any bubble market, it is often difficult to predict the precise point when the bubble will burst.

However, I do not regret going down on my knees and pleading with friends and relatives to avoid stocks several days, months, years back. They are sleeping much more peacefully now, I think.....
now that they no longer have any investment funds left to worry about.

As you are well aware, when a bubble bursts, it is an amazingly fast event. There never is enough time for the average investor to get out. NEVER. take Gold for example...when it was close to it's all time high of $800 per ounce, the DOW was also around 800.

NOW, the DOW is at 8000 and Gold is at $284.00 It would appear that Gold investors have lost just about everything they ever owned in this "Store of value" if they stuck with it over the years.

Yet they never change their tune no matter how often they are wrong. NEVER. It's an amazing display of ignorance, and naiveite to constantly parrot Gloom and Doom scenarios for 2 decades a la Granville don't you think?

Well....here's to hoping you made enough during the DOW's 2 decade 1000% gains, thatyou'll be well fixed EVEN in the event of a Bear market. You'll certainly do better than those who invested in Gold....even if and when the DOW bubble bursts, you'll be way ahead of the game over the perpetual Bear market Nimrods who recommended Gold all these years!

*L

Lurker 777
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:47 - ID#317247)
Studio.R
Back in 79 I worked on a old cable tool in Oakmolgee, Ok. drilling shallow wells. Have you heard of Joe Holman? He sold out some years ago and now lives in Tulsa.

MM
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:48 - ID#350282)
1 Trillion FRN ($US) for Y2K Litigation... Hmmm
Year 2000 Bug Likely to Infest Courtrooms
http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/NATION/t000081575.1.html

copperfoot
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:48 - ID#270123)
@envy You Preach Brother!!!
Although I must say that I like to hear from the detractors too, ( as long as it's civil ) , it helps build perspective.

gagnrad
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:48 - ID#43460)
Aussie re your Indian post
Would you mind posting the URL for that report? I've been trying to collect news sources and this looks like a good one. Thanks! ( %-^} )

Liberty
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:50 - ID#263379)
@ *Fwipe
Glad you enjoy Vronsky's site and plan to continue getting published there. It's the perfect place for you all right. A collection of mental "Whack job", one note, extremists who have been perpetually wrong about virtually everything market related. you'll fot right in. As to your comment;

"I like Bart and KITCO...however, there is just so much high emotionalism on this site now, don't you think? It is hard to get an argument across without a torrent of abuse immediately posted thereafter. "

Actually *Fwipe, it's been my observation that virtually EVERYone on K1, myself included, is now able to post our market ideas and perspectives, unmolested by unprovolked insults now that certain members are banished. And now that Bart is enforcing a new set of guidelines.....

Yes, it's a very valuable resource and forum these days. Far far better than Vronsky's place. With far better minds, and far more diverse and sophisticated analysis.

Keep up the bad work here though *Fwipe....

*L

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:51 - ID#252286)
PH... the last we speak

Either you did not read far enough back or you missed this, and the other similar posts surrounding it. Once again, under no provocation, with nary a word from myself or any other, the following is posted:

Date: Mon Aug 31 1998 20:20
farfel ( Well, well, it looks like Puetz is THE man... ) ID#17077:
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
..congrats to this man for having the balls to come out and make his tremendous bear market call in the face of much hostility from the usual bunch of malicious morons.

I say balls because it takes guts and courage to go with one's convictions in the face of hostile derision from the usual group of one-track idiots, specifically LGibberish, RotJerk, and RealisticNitwit.

Hey, Realistic Nitwit, where are all your posts ad nauseum describing Puetz's erroneous market calls? What happened? Did you get your butt kicked today?

In the face of Puetz' tremendous call, these guys still have the audacity to come onto this forum and denigrate the man.

Hey, Run for cover, kids.

And just remember who called this one kids?

Congrats again, Puetz.

You're Da Man.

Indeedy. Thingie. Fumpy. Scoobeedoobeedoobee.

Thanks.

F*

Read the other posts from 8/30 to 9/1. There he is laughing and gloating and wishing losses for people. He wants people to loose their money, "serves em right , he shouts. He was personally insulting some posters I am fond of. When he lays off the insults - including the wishing that the "gold shorts get creeeeeaaamed", I tend to go to sleep and can sleep for long periods at a time, being basically lazy at heart. But I am a skittish cat, and when my whiskers start a-twitchin and I look in to see what the cause is, I find F*Puetz under full sail of insanity.

By the way, this F*Puetz thing is just a working theory ( kind of like the one in which you insist that I am RJ. I am Jujube. I read a post from RJ to you. He said that his password does not work here. )

I thought F* intended that little star thing to stand for something. You remember that old Sienfeld episode when he couldnt remember the girls name.. not Mulva..? Well I did not want to be rude and ask, so I have been busting my ass for weeks in an attempt to stumble on the true meaning of the star. The only clues I have to go on are in the content of F*Puetzs posts. I have been making my guesses based on what I find there. I hope this clears that up.

There is no need to address me further for I am Jujube and I have but one purpose. The madman stops his direct and implied insults, and I stay very sleepy. I have offered him this sleeping dog before, even once going so far as to shoot myself in the head after the insults stopped. But F*Puetz keeps coming back for more.

You may wonder what I get out of this. Well, I write a lot, and I get paid for it. Sometimes I dont have much to write about. This place keeps me sharp and creative. Not a word has been wasted, and some have found their way into my other projects. So fear not that I toil in vain, for I am playing with the words vastly more so than playing with dear dumb as dirt F*Puetz. It is sad for him that I also happen to know these markets pretty well, as he is heard to whine.

Besides, I never backed down from a lying hypocrite in my life. F spot will not be the first.

Thank you for you concern over the golden eagle site. When Vronsky asked if I would write there, I declined. I cannot abide by a single minded place. The markets go two directions, yet golden eagle never acknowledges the down direction for gold. The funny thing is the opposite direction is never acknowledged for equities. Both are always out of whack, the world is a bunch of fools, and they alone have the keys to the castle. I would be no part of such a whitewash. That, at least should be obvious by my posts.

I think F*Puetz has found a home at golden eagle. They will worship him there. He ought to just go over there and be a king, they all think EXACTLY like him. I cannot imagine following him there, I never visit that site anymore. Or he can stay here, while his posts are on golden eagle. I will then expose every mistaken, ill thought, and stupid thing he says.

A new generation of disciples awaits him at golden eagle. It would be sad if they too were exposed to the madman he truly is. I have so much amassed, that a single post would send his new disciples scrambling for the door. Ill do it in one post, in as many sites as I can. I will be bared from sites and I will return and people will wonder how. Anybody can get one long post in anywhere. Once the word is out, well you cant put the toothpaste back in the tube.

I will not post his dribble on K1 though. I read that site daily, although I do not post there ( well twice, the first was a mistake, and the second was to call attention to that mistake and apologize ) I have no intentions of bringing any of F*Puetzs words to K1. If they show up by proxy, I will assume he is at the root of it and will hunt him down like a rabid dog and verbally slay him wherever I find him. All in the name of good fun, mind you. The words are so much more important that the F log.

I have been published elsewhere - in print, not the Internet - on a wide range of subjects. I sometimes just freak myself out with how much I actually know about so many things. How DOES it all fit? Where shall we put more? Is there still room for 3 million more useless ( until you need them ) pieces of information? My tastes do tend towards the fanciful whenever I can get paid for it, which is pretty good work, if you can get it.

Thanks for the concern over my published writings, but the best thing about my words, is where I choose to send them. I would not choose to send them to golden eagle, unless the site was significantly more balanced than it is today, or F*Puetz continues his attacks on my friends from over there. This will rouse me in my throne of anger and I will henceforth ride off to slay this serpent. Apart from that, I wish golden eagle the very best. Vronsky is a truly amazing individual, part salesman, part prophet, part wise ass, speaks five or six languages, I like the guy. I just wish he would realize that people are looking for truth. They can find propaganda anywhere. Addition of nuts like F*Puetz only assure golden eagles continued irrelevance.

That is also why I admire some posters on K1, they buck a tide of ignorance and hostility to tell folks gold is going down, better get on the right side of this before it does you all in.. Those voices are few at K1 and nonexistent at golden eagle. Dont you think that balance; ALL sides of the story, are important - even F*Puetzs? Although in his case he said it all last November and has been repeating himself ever since. Every time he strays from the very narrow understanding he has of the world, he is to be found with both feet in his mouth.

Yes, balance is needed and this creep was destroying the balance. By shouting and constantly harassing all who even dared say a negative word about gold, his chorus of simpleton parrots jumped in and shouted louder than he. Before long, it was impossible to discuss markets over there. I saw people try to discuss realities, and they were roundly squashed with trumpets of $30,0000 gold. It reached a crescendo on the fateful July day and F nut snapped like a twig rotted through with bat guano. This demon was exorcised and, for a month, all could speak of markets again, in a high and wonderful fashion. Discourse was not stifled, rather, it flourished, without the constant berating typical of the pre farfel ban days.


Also I would like to thank you for offering me this forum to reply to your post and, in doing so, get in quite a few more jabs at the F lump. I have noticed that the replies to your seemingly outraged posts regarding farfel are often filled with more insults and expose of F*Puetzs stupidity than the original posts you were so outraged about. In that respect you have been a great ally in this Jihad and I thank you. I sometimes run out of new ways to come at him, and your post tonight gave me a welcome venue.

It is much easier to insult somebody in the third person. A writer is often able to cut closer to the bone in the third person; not at all comfortable with confrontation. I am of different timber though. I walk right up, stare a man directly in the eyes, and tell him exactly what I think of him. This has got me punched once or twice in my life, but that was in my younger days. I can now smell it coming a mile away and they havent laid a glove on me in nearly four decades. F log has threatened to call the Mafia on me and has called Bart to cry about how unfair it all is. So I AM worried on that score.

Anyway, I wish I could be who you say I am, but I am only a lonely soul trying to fill the void in my useless existence with a rousing Jihad. Does tend to spice up the nights a bit.

Thanks

J*

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:54 - ID#401460)
Rubin's Firm Doing Just Fine

It helps when you have a man on the inside.

Goldman's Paulson and Corzine told employees the firm had not made an announcement on trading losses because, ``frankly there was nothing to say,'' according to one New York source.

``The third quarter is going to be not as high as the first two quarters,'' the source said the executives told employees. ``But ( Corzine and Paulson ) said they were 'more than pleased' with the performance in the third quarter.''

``Market uncertainty and volatility are a fact of life, which somebody in our business should certainly understand,'' Goldman's Paulson said in the conference call, according to the source. Referring to bullish forecasts by the firm's influential market analyst, Abby Cohen, Paulson said he though the stock market would recover in the short term, the source said.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980908/za.html

HighRise

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:55 - ID#284255)
Email chatter
DOW JONES STUDY 1921 to 1998

YEAR VALUE years total gain gain/year
1921 75
1929 375 8 400% 50
1932 45 3 -88% -29
1937 175 5 289% 58
1942 90 5 -49% -10
1946 230 4 156% 39
1949 175 3 -24% -8
1965 1000 16 471% 29
1966 740 1 -26% -26
1972 1050 6 42% 7
1974 550 2 -48% -24
1976 1050 2 91% 45
1982 782 6 -26% -4
1987 2600 5 232% 46
1988 1750 1 -33% -33
1998 9000 10 414% 41

-----
Great Bull Markets 1924-29 and 1982-87
( 1 ) Both bull markets lasted 21 quarters
( 2 ) Each hit it's peak in 3rd quarter
( 3 ) Sep 3, 1929
( 4 ) Aug 25, 1987
( 5 ) Both had crash 54 days after peak
( 6 ) The crash stripped more then 20% from the averages
( 7 ) Now how about today's bull market ????
( 8 ) Peak July 20, 1998
( 9 ) And of course 54 days equals....SEP 10, 1998
( 10 ) But cycles never repeat...Hey ! Hey !

Source..Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis dated Nov 1987

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:55 - ID#252286)
The preceding was

A compelling and definitive definition of F*spot's future should he continue the course he is on. This is as sure as the sun will rise. Only he can choose the level of tumult.

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:57 - ID#284255)
J Stack
INVESTECH FINANCIAL UPDATE: Tuesday, September 8, 1998
Seldom have so few words had so much impact. A copy of Greenspan's actual
speech is available from the Federal Reserve's Internet web site... and you
REALLY have to stretch your imagination to see any implied imminent rate
cut. What's more, any odds of that rate cut went down substantially after
today's exuberance. On the weekend update, we said "don't be surprised by
another BIG rally attempt." After all, the market was coming off of one of
the most oversold levels in recent years; and short-term indicators were
DEEP in "rally" territory. The question is - what now?
We see too equally divergent psychologies out there right now. From a
technical standpoint, the critical 7500 level held on Friday and today's
rally saw an 11:1 ratio of advancing volume over declining volume. That
likely means the first downleg of the bear market is over. But exuberance
has not been tempered, margin debt has not been reduced, historic valuation
has not been restored ( not even close ) , and there's virtually no improvement
in breadth or leadership. To us, that means the bear market is not over. And
the other important psychology that we could soon see is from those who
would give anything to get out at levels of a couple months ago.
This rally should carry over into the next day or two. The key questions are
whether breadth broadens ( that is, our Breadth Disparity Indexes move up ) ...
whether the number of new lows ( downside leadership ) declines to less than
50 stocks... and whether small-caps outperform blue chips. Those are the
characteristics of a stronger intermediate bottom that could have some
lasting ability.
Bottomline, don't read more into this than into the wild gyrations of the
past week. This is exactly why we didn't add to short positions yet. This
appears to be a bear market rally off oversold extremes -- and we'll wait
for indicators to convince us otherwise.



sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 22:58 - ID#284255)
Oldman
oleman . .
looks like topx will be back in a few days at this rate. He told me on
Saturday that he thought we would see a FIFTY ( 50 ) handle up crash today!!
Honest. I'm glad I bought the futures yesterday morning on that first
pullback. That might just allow me to accumulate the shorts I want in
stocks. The question now is whether we reverse tomorrow. or go all the way
to the 200 MA and puke on Thursday, IMO.


Tortfeasor
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:01 - ID#37463)
Home Runs
It looks like the only one with more home runs this year than Mark MacGwyer will be Bill Clinton batting next to the Oval Office. Interesting day with 62 home runs and the DOW setting a one day record. I think the baseball record will continue to accumulate. If you think the other will continue up for much longer I fear that you are in slumberland. All things considered gold was kind of firm today; better than I had feared. Maybe tomorrow the move up will continue.

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:01 - ID#284255)
Gagnrad - have a look here.
http://www.gallery.uunet.be/internetpress/link40.htm

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:02 - ID#284255)
pssst wanna buy a generator??? good as gold.
http://www.colemans.com/genweb.html

Allen(USA)
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:03 - ID#255190)
DA
I suggest we prepare for 'ugly'.

AZAU
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:03 - ID#247273)
As the Worm Turns
Make sure that the coming days bring you opportunity.
and that we all have the courage to pull the trigger when,
and only when, the moment is right!
My personal gold stocks were up 10% today. What more signal does one need or want? CAUTION. Whites of their eyes. Aye!
imho

Silverthorn
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:03 - ID#247309)
Charles Keeling - P.S.
Good advice on setting up far away company. But amyone considering this must be aware that certain taxing authorities have set up traps for the unwary. For example, the Infernal Revenue Code requires the payment of a 25% tax on the appreciated value of any asset transferred offshore. So for example stock that has appreciated since purchase either gets taxed on transfer, or more likely, sets the stage for an ugly scene in the event of an audit.
A second problem is how the ownership of the company is held. Find a tax haven that permits bearer stock, so that no name appears. Form 1040 requires the disclosure of an interest of more than 25% in a foreign corporation. Again, failure to disclose such ownership is more dangerous than the tax pain of disclosure.
A third problem is trading stock or commodities using an offshore entity. Merrill Lynch in the US requires the offshore company to get an EIN - so much for tax haven benefit. Foreign brokerage houses that know what they are doing, do it for a reasonable price, and are able to execute when you instruct them are hard to find.
A fourth problem is figuring out where to set it up. The US gov has spent decades forcing Carribean tax havens to sign tax treaties which allow the US to force secret or open disclosure. Under US pressure the Swiss agreed years ago to open their books in the event the US gov claimed the funds represented stock fraud proceeds, and since then has expanded the list of things which are no longer protected. So, you need one that has no tax treaty.
And, it helps to know who is setting up the entity, and referrals are the best way to protect yourself.
BUT, the benefits of all this effort WE TAKE TO BE SELF-EVIDENT...

( All - sorry this was so long )

The Hatt
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:03 - ID#294232)
EB/ Do you not get tired of writing pure BULL****!!!!!
We are sick of reading your posts! Why not go play at SI for a while or I suppose they are tired of you too! So GO PLAY IN THE TRAFFIC! Sorry about this post everyone but i am sick and tired of this moron!

MM
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:06 - ID#350282)
Pressing the envelope
The date is June 12, 2005.
Taiwan's bold political activities cahllenge the power of mainland China.
With an angry dragon's fury, China's response is swift and deadly.
*But they don't stop there*.
With Russia destabilized and coming apart, the Chinese decide to go for resource-rich Siberia.
Suddenly, China is up against a Western Alliance of 19 nations.

But, fear not - it was only a strategic simulation advance-sale publicity ; )

ENVY:
I always have three predictions for any market:
It will go up.
It will go down.
It will cease to be.
Caveat - two of these will always be wrong...

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:07 - ID#401460)
AU

Financial Report
Closed out heir hedge position, etc.
http://sec.yahoo.com/e/980908/au.html

HighRise

Envy
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:07 - ID#219363)
@Sharefin
Re: your post about 54 days after the high and the crash of 87. Following is a URL that shows the days around the crash of 87, and the pattern is eerie to me. I wouldn't be long right now for anything ( well, maybe something worth more than I would stand to lose ) . If this is a rally, it'll have to be more convincing than this for my money.

http://viking.som.yale.edu/will/finman540/learncurve/images/87market.gif

PH in LA
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:10 - ID#225408)
LGB and Adolf Hitler: Birds of a Feather
"But I take exception to "Man"... I would never kick a "Man" when he's down. A coward maybe, a fraud perhaps, A purveyor of false and misleading information, yeah.....a pathalogically psychotic schizoid mental patient....maybe, an Delusional Wanna be cult Guru...I think so...but never a man. " LGB


Frightening, isn't it how demagogues always seem to spend their time lamenting in others exactly what they ought to take exception to in their own characters. LGB claims to differentiate between mental patients and men, between a purveyor of false and misleading information and a man, between a coward and a man, frauds and men, etc.

Where have we heard that before?

Didn't Adolf Hitler make similar distinctions? Between human beings and jews, between homosexuals and humans, between _____________ and men... ( fill in the blank ) .

I guess LGB feels qualified to judge between any of the above and a man, too.

Sex perverts are not men either. And LGB knows the difference between normal sex and perverted sex...that's how he knows he hates the President of the United States of America. Otherwise, would he know? One wonders.

Actually, looking too closely at the words of LGB is embarrassing on so many levels that one is almost always well-advised to refrain from doing so.


Allen(USA)
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:14 - ID#255190)
Hatt
Knock it off, OK? EB is part of the Kitco ambience. Without him, RJ and LGB reminding us of our failures we would be to self contented. They have been the winners here so far. They have the right to question and provoke. Besides if you run EB off, then what fun would that be? We need the abuse. Alot of folks have made alot more money to date doing what they do rather then what many here have done.

So hang loose, dude. EB is rich and will be famous for being one of the few to jump ship into the metals just at the right time. Then he will be even richer and more successful. Count on it.

BillinOregon
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:15 - ID#262242)
U.S.A. Daily gold report
In what has to be some of the most important gold news we have seen in a while,

the London Evening Telegraph quoted gold analysts as saying "funds have been

caught short gold, possibly up to 1000 tons due to recovery in the gold price, and

may be force to buy back more. This short-covering is seen triggering a massive

gold price rise." To give you an idea of the relative important of this statement,

annual mine production is on the order of 2000 tons! Where is this gold going to

come from?

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:17 - ID#17077)
PLATINUM...I like it at this price....
...but not much higher.

I would consider buying a platinum bracelet for my wife at this price. Many others do. But never above 350!

At this point, it is rangebound, don't you think?

( Oh, I sure hope the KITCO platinum policeman doesn't object to my humble opinion )

Thanks.

F*

Dave in CO
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:18 - ID#229141)
@The Hatt RE: EB
You read my mind.

BTW, this lurker would like to hear more from you. Thanks.

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:19 - ID#284255)
Swing chart updated
http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Markets/Swing.jpg

Is it a bull?
no, a bear
no, it's a bull
no, your'e wrong, it's a bear
No, you don't know what you're talking about, it's a bull again, can't you see.

uh, huh, lets wait and see what it's really going to do after this rally.

Rack
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:19 - ID#411163)
Tantalus-as to gold not dropping on a huge Dow rally
I saw on MSNBC's gold prices that gold dropped but the coin prices were up. Something seems to have changed. Also lots of talk here on coin dealers not having any coin stocks

gagnrad
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:20 - ID#43460)
Sharefin re AG's speech URL
This is a repost of my 13:26 post of the URL to the controversial speech. Its still up for grabs exactly what he means. http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/boarddocs/speeches/Speech.cfm?WhichSpeechIndex=104

AZAU
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:20 - ID#247273)
Bill
Perhaps we should ask them to mine it from their derriere's,
same place all our gold investments have gone......imho

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:22 - ID#401460)
Derivatives loss only 15 Billion Yen
TOKYO, Sept 9 ( Reuters ) - Fuji Bank said on Wednesday it saw a maximum possible loss from its derivatives trading of about 15 billion yen.

HighRise

copperfoot
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:23 - ID#270123)
Question #1
New here. Great forum. It is certainly beneficient of Kitco to provide this.

Question #1: I have read on other gold sites that the Euro is to be backed by gold. ( A few days ago someone on this forum said a 15% backing. How do you back it 15%? )

Who said? Where are they getting this idea?

Dave in CO
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:24 - ID#229141)
@Allen
But he told us today he is now and forever a long-term investor in equities. His father, grandfather, and great grandfather told him to.

You don't think he would betray his heritage to invest in PMs, do you?


farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:24 - ID#17077)
THE REAL PROBLEM WITH PLATINUM...
...is that many people buy it thinking it is a store of value.

Yet, what real intrinsic value is there?

It is valued in American Dollars, you see. The value is in the American Dollar, not the Platinum.

You cannot go to a store and buy food with platinum.

You cannot pay your rent with platinum.

No, you must sell your platinum for American Dollars.

The last time I looked, all transactions in America were conducted in Dollars, not platinum.

So, in effect, Platinum is worthless.

No store of value there.

Sorry.

Thanks.

F*


Selby
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:29 - ID#286230)
Hattman
Your ABX story has been posted on SI Barrick. Nobody seems to able to make head or tale of it. Maybe you should mosey over and clarify the matter for them.

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:30 - ID#401460)
Dave in CO (@The Hatt RE: EB

Just because he likes Baseball? Get a life!

HighRise

messy79
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:30 - ID#293184)
Allen
My personal notes as a lurker, dated 5/98, has EB as one of the 5 smart ones on this board.

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:31 - ID#17077)
On second thought, maybe PLATINUM is too expensive at this price...
...so I do NOT think I would buy my wife a platinum bracelet at these prices...unless it is dotted in DIAMONDS. Then I would be more interested. DIAMONDS are always more valuable than platinum...and there is much more populist interest in diamonds.

So I CANNOT buy platinum by itself at today's price.

It is too expensive for where it is likely headed.

Yes.

Thanks.

F*


RJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:35 - ID#411259)
I know it only baseball but

Did anybody see the pride
In MacGuire's kid's face
As dad ran into home?
Makes all the hype worth it, yes?

Yes

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:35 - ID#252286)
Is that it?

How much of worldwide palladium production goes into the manufacture of computers? Are there other electronic devices which are smaller and use more palladium? Looking up palladium in the encyclopedia will not hide your gross stupidity. You sound like a kid in forth grade trying to fake a book report after having not read the book.

Thats it? I ask the most basic questions about the PGM market, and you come back with wifes rings, computers, and COIN DEALERS? Perhaps you truly are as dumb as you appear, and can only sound intelligent on occasion, like the million monkeys with the million typewriters, ultimately everything they produce is more valuable than your empty headed statements.

How about the question of savings to the auto industry? How about the laws and treaties involved in pollution control? How about your goooooooood buddy and personal mentor, the standing aloft log himself, Al Gore? Would he approve of your unilateral removal of the one singe technology responsible for reducing 80% of the pollutants that have been eliminated from our air in the last 15 years?


Rings and computers. You define the market this way.

Pray you dont continue your ways at golden eagle. I hear a peep of this kind of garbage and I will verbally squash you like a bug in front of the world. Try me, and see what happens.

You can never, ever win this, though I would dearly love to see you try. Im just getting warmed up, Im not a bit tired, and I am a thick skulled fellow in any case, so have at it. We will enlist others to join the Jihad. Life will be not fun and the sunshine you lovingly speak of will not shine.

This is the road you have chosen.

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:41 - ID#17077)
@NOBODY IN PARTICULAR....
...my God, now how did you figure out that my wife and I are acquainted with Vice-President Al Gore?

Did Bart fill you in on all the details? Is my true identity now revealed?

Oh,oh.

Thanks.

F*

RJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:42 - ID#411259)
..... Allen USA .....

Yes we were right all the way down.

Remember, I trade both side of the market. I'll be just as right on the upside. The stops are in, well below $300. Shorts cannot hurt me. when I get an indication that gold will rise, I buy the hell out of gold. Why does everybody assume that the current gold bears will be hurt? Its called trading. Close one position, open another. Either direction, no matter where it goes, as long as it does not go sideways, yes?

OK

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:43 - ID#17077)
WORTHY OF A REPOST: THE PROBLEM WITH PLATINUM...
Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:24
farfel ( THE REAL PROBLEM WITH PLATINUM... ) ID#17077:
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
...is that many people buy it thinking it is a store of value.

Yet, what real intrinsic value is there?

It is valued in American Dollars, you see. The value is in the American Dollar, not the Platinum.

You cannot go to a store and buy food with platinum.

You cannot pay your rent with platinum.

No, you must sell your platinum for American Dollars.

The last time I looked, all transactions in America were conducted in Dollars, not platinum.

So, in effect, Platinum is worthless.

No store of value there.

Sorry.

Thanks.

F*

sharefin
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:44 - ID#284255)
Envy
A sucker's born every minute.
And there's lots in the markets now.

Yes, I question the circumstances.
And do not believe that it will last long at all.

Reminds me of my talking dirty post of last friday
The "Last Orgasmic Thrust"
Before the bull rolls over and goes to sleep.

Volatility as never before.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RJ
Many thanks. T'is truer than most can see.
Dad enjoyed muchly so and waxed lyrically.
He has written a few along similiar lines.
--

Spirit moved
The Word
Rippled infinity
Created space

The Word
Pulsed
Primal atom
Channelled energy

The Word
Partitioned eternity
Formed time, aeons,
And precious moments

The Word
Matched atoms with time
Framed galaxies
Cosmic mysteries

The Word
Decreed Sun, Moon
The morning Star
And lovely Earth

The Word
Seeded land sea and sky
Provisioned all
And peopled earth

Spirit with Word
Still dreaming
Rests
And contemplates the Work

Spirit with Word
A glory brighter than our Sun
Ponders new mysteries
Work not yet begun

tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:44 - ID#373284)
style...they just gave McGuire
a 62 Cardinal Red Corvette as a gift...style...uh huh...

AZAU
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:46 - ID#247273)
RJ
No disrespect...but you are a financial earthworm.
Feed lower than the bottom....
you will of course become castings yourself.
What worth do you really have?

EJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:46 - ID#45173)
World economy falters! Greenspan speaks, saves the day! Perhaps only one?
And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming... declining world markets.

http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Over dinner tonight with Germans, Dutch, Americans, and Brazilians. Discuss the porpoising DOW. All agree without the slightest hesitation: last chance to G-E-T O-U-T!

-EJ


tolerant1
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:47 - ID#373284)
Squirrel, Namaste' if you see this...give chas a call in the morning...his system is
down and my email message to you kept getting bounced back...

HighRise
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:48 - ID#401460)
ASIA

Here we go again!
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

HighRise

Jujube__A
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:50 - ID#252286)
F*PUETZ IS GOING TO SICK AL GORE ON ME

HELP HELP HELP

NOT AL GORE! WHY.. HE COULD TAKE ME WITH ONE HAND TIED BEHIND HIS BACK ( AND A MARINE REGIMENT OR TWO ) . F SPOT IS TELLING THE VICE PRESIDENT ON ME! HELP HELP HELP

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO HAVE A CRIMINAL AS A FRIEND THERE, F*SONNY?

YOU TELL AL BABY, WHEN NEXT YOU ARE ON YOUR KNEES IN FRONT OF HIM, THAT HIS TIME IS DONE. HE IS A LYING CRIMINAL AND SHOULD BE BOUNCED DOWN THE CAPITAL STEPS LIKE THE LIAR HE IS. HIS CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES HAVE BURIED HIM FOREVER. DO YOU PLAN TO VISIT HIM IS PRISON LUMPY BOY?

THAT IS THE BEST JOKE OF THE EVENING

THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH F WORM

Realistic
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:50 - ID#410194)
@Farfel Re: Silver
Don't forget to fill us in about Silver not going into double-digits by summer's arrival as you said it would.

Also, looking at the chart, Silver has been in an overall bear market since March 4th so which takeoff were you talking about? Will there still be one and if so, when?

Thanks.

Date: Wed Mar 04 1998 16:55
farfel ( @SELBY...ON THE OTHER HAND, AFTER THIS WEEK... ) ID#339265:
...I would expect a major up-tick in "little guy" involvement as Buffett delineates the exact nature of his silver investment to the legions of Buffett disciples out there.

Be ready for takeoff!

- FARFEL ( the Unpronounceable )

Earl
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:52 - ID#227238)
The Hatt:
I do believe yer being a little unkind to EB. Near as I can tell, his opinions have not been dramatically removed from real market action. Whether they remain in that form, only time will tell. In the meantime, there is no reason to beat him over his cyber head. Even though he has, on far too many occasions, called our baby ugly. ...... OTOH, an excess of goldbug enthusiasm has not been worth a pitcher of warm spit either.

TheMissingLink
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:53 - ID#373403)
Greenspan comments
Moreover, it is just not credible that the United States can remain an oasis of prosperity unaffected by a world that is experiencing greatly increased stress. Developments overseas have contributed to holding down prices and aggregate demand in the United States in the face of strong domestic spending. As dislocations abroad mount, feeding back on our financial markets, restraint is likely to intensify. In the spring and early summer, the Federal Open Market Committee was concerned that a rise in inflation was the primary threat to the continued expansion of the economy. By the time of the Committee's August meeting, the risks had become balanced, and the Committee will need to consider carefully the potential ramifications of ongoing developments since that meeting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

What I find incredulous is that the market should rally on this comment. To parse a rate cut from this comment means that the analysts accept that the cut would be in response to the United States being dragged down by global financial and economic crisis. Its not like the rate cut is to add liquidity to a starved market, rather it is to counterbalance growing deflationary trends which have gripped 2/3 of the global economy.

To rally on this is very selective interpretation of what is presented.

In addition, Greenspan says the risks are BALANCED. For the market to assume a rate cut means an assumption that recession will indeed grip our economy. The economic aspects of a deflationary recession would FAR OUTWEIGH the benefits of added liquidity to the financial market. Baby boomers are following an old script regarding interest rate cuts and are hoping against all hope for another 20% gain in their NYSE savings account.

farfel
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:57 - ID#17077)
@REALISTIC...I told you to refer all SILVER questions to LGBUGAL...
...he's the one who influenced me into believing silver was going through the roof this summer.

He's Kitco's resident silverbug.

I guess you might say I fell under "bad influences."

Oh, yes.

Thanks

F*

EJ
(Tue Sep 08 1998 23:58 - ID#45173)
gagnrad
A bull market interprets layoffs as good for the market because the bull expects growth and layoffs are disinflationary. However, a bear market inteprets layoffs as a symptom of recession.

In this context, Greenspan's remarks can be taken either way. A bear hears that a recession is in the offing. A bull hears that a strong economy will be sustained. The reaction of the markets to Greenspan suggests we're still in a predominantly bull market. But, the quick retreat by Asia tonight suggests that the markets have a bull heart but a bear head.
-EJ