Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:00 - ID#286230)
Vista Gold
closed at C$.28

(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:22 - ID#284255)
Be it that gold turns here and retraces down.
Wouldn't that mean it's still within it's downtrend?

Doesn't it have to break above it's downtrend resistance to challenge the trend?

Where's that plastic ruler???


This wav file is a hoot.

Clinton singing the blues.

PH in LA
(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:24 - ID#225408)
Just a few questions that spring to mind about the Starr report.
"The report, eight months in the making, lists 11 grounds in which Mr Starr believes that the president may have committed potentially impeachable acts, including lying and attempting to obstruct the course of justice" BBC News

My question may appear a technicality to the closed-minded here who have looked forward to this day for so long with their mind firmly made up. However, for the rest of us I ask: Since when does a public servant, hired by the American people to investigate possible wrongdoing by the president, have the authority to state that he believes that acts committed are or are not potentially impeachableacts? Shouldn't making that kind of judgement be reserved for the Congress and/or ultimately the American people? Wasn't Starr hired to gather facts, to determine what actions were or were not committed; not to speculate on whether or not those acts are or are not "impeachable? Is he suddenly an arbiter on interpretation of the Constitution? Since when does an investigator give his opinion on constitutional matters?

And since when does a prosecutor hired to investigate one matter suddenly have the authority to investigate any other matter he decides could lead to impeachment? Was he hired to gather specific facts? Or was his mandate to find ( or manufacture in the form of unconstitutionally gathered tape recordings ) any excuse whatsoever to impeach the President of the United States? Even if the acts committed occurred well after the prosecutors own appointment?

My wife, a citizen of Spain, finds this whole Monica affair repulsive and incomprehensible. In her country, when high officials are indicted and/or convicted for high crimes, it is not for lying about sex. For example, the ex-minister of the interior in the Felipe Gonzalez government was recently sentencedto 10 years in prison for crimes committed by the government in combatting the terrorist group ETA. It seems that individual members of the group were denied civil rights, and even killed in secret under the cover of national security, completely undermining the due process of law.

These were real crimes, which left unpunished could easily have led to the abolition of the rule of law and the institution of totalitarian government. Not lying about sex.

Yet, in summing up the evidence, Starr writes: "Perjury and acts that obstruct justice by any citizen are profoundly serious matters." Just what "justice" was actually "obstructed" here? The Paula Jones suit ( in which the president was testifying at the time ) was later thrown out of court. Are we to conclude that part of "justice" in this country includes making it a matter of public record whether or not a citizen has violated his marriage vows?

And what about those numerous leaks from Starr's office throughout the whole investigation? Didn't Starr himself deny those? Wasn't he lying then? Weren't those lies "profoundly serious matters"?

Is this really how "we the people" want the lawfully elected head of our government treated?

So far, the polls say overwhelmingly: NO!

It feels kind of good belonging to the majority for a change.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:25 - ID#177105)
Brother oris...celebrate with me....
Nice...will give details upon use. Are high capacity mags a good idea? I think so.


Bart Kitner (Kitco)
(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:32 - ID#259253)
New Backup Site:
I was told by our ISP today that a train in Atlanta derailed, hit a major hub that carried a fiber-optic trunk and brought internet service providers down all over the southern US. If anyone heard of such an incident then that would explain why we were down today. If not, then only the person who invented that story really knows why we were inaccesible for a little while this afternoon.


For future downings please feel free to come to This is actually where the old site was before we moved it. Please make a note of the URL and use it ( if and ) when this page doesn't respond.

Bill Buckler
(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:35 - ID#256381)
Gold's Downtrend
Sharefin ( 00:22 ) According to my P&F chart, $US gold is right at the top of its downtrend. That being said, it's still IN its downtrend.

I think the bottom has probably been established, but if Gold turns at present levels ( $US 494-95 ) , the trend is still down. That means further sideways action. Of course, the further Gold goes "sideways" the lower the downtrend line gets, and the level at which it is broken falls too.

On top of that, Gold has turned up at the bottom of a very shallow uptrend in Yen terms, and is trying to rally from what looks like an undershoot in D-Mark terms.

All the usual weekly charts and commentary are up at The Privateer website.

John Disney
(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:39 - ID#24135)
morning reflections ..
to all ..
Assumptions .. intermediate ..
Wave 5 down perhaps complete in crb .. copper .. gold ..
.. things will look brighter for a while. Even ABX will
move higher as will the $XAU.
Gold has bottomed in all currencies but the yen ..
and maybe the swiss. These two will continue strong.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:39 - ID#219363)
Fiber Trunk
The downside of the red-tape involved in getting right-of-way for your cabling. You either go beside the rails ala sprint ( spr = southern pacific railroad ) , cut a deal with utilities, or go through the massive hassle of getting individual agreements with property owners, cities, counties, etc, to run your cable. There isn't nearly as much redundant cable as everyone claims there is. Related - very recently, I believe only a few weeks ago, I posted a similar instance of a fiber cable being cut that took out telephone services to millions of customers. The culprit ? A small rodent chewed through the cable.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:40 - ID#290172)
Today's ( 9/11/98 ) FT

( 1 ) Iran to send 80,000 troops to border with Afghanistan

( 2 ) Leap in US current account deficit-up 21%

( 3 ) IMF team due in Pakistan to discuss a loan programme to help stave off an impending foreign debt crisis

( 4 ) Yield on Japanese long-term bonds hit a low in a sign that the BOJ's decision to ease credit has had the opposite effect to that intended

( 5 ) Rio Tinto, the world's biggest mining group, reported "robust" first-half earnings 7% lower at 551m despite a background of market turmoil in Asia and sharply lower prices for some of its products.

And the pice de rsistance

Financial Crises-Euro 'provided buttress'-Italy, Spain and Portugal might have had "massive" currency devaluations following the Asian and Russian financial crises if they had not been preparing to adopt the euro, according to a leading German industrialist. Hans Olaf Henkel, head of BDI, Germany's leading industry association, said the fixing of exchange rates since May had buttressed European economies against the damaging effects of the crises.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:47 - ID#433143)

John Disney
(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:47 - ID#24135)
YUK ..
to all ..
This is not a personal attack .. but I noticed
ph in la defense of wjc just a few moments ago .. The
man proclaims that the majority of Americans STILL
WANT the lying degenerate rat to be president ..
I hope he is right on this .. It fully justifies my
decision to leave the US in 1981 and renounce

Lou Paquette
(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:48 - ID#320200)
@Sharefin, I pulled a 5 year chart off big charts..
AND I have a ruler - and the POG seems to have been pushing the line for a few months now and appears to have penetrated the trendline yesterday. I guess it depends on where you draw the line.

Bill you know what I would love to see on your sight is some really long term CRB and Gold charts, Dow. I know some are quite old but not far back enough, and with more detail. 100 yr? Adjusted for inflation would be good too. Not that your site isn't great and visit it often for the commentary.
Lou P

(Sat Sep 12 1998 00:54 - ID#237264)

Those with the greatest savings have seen their governments further lower the returns on their paper hoards, their banks, reputed to be in shambles, their pensions in doubt; this while the international paper currencies burn about them.
Ask yourself, what else is there for them to do?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:10 - ID#248170)
Thank you. I love the tune

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:16 - ID#219363)
It's nice seeing gold-bugs in such a good mood, refreshing. Let's just hope this isn't some weird bounce that goes nowhere, I'd hate to see the big bear come back around and take a short right in the middle of the party. Perhaps the bottom is finally in ? If you don't buy it for any other reason, buy it because it's pretty and it makes a nice *tink* sound when you flip a coin in the air. Long physical, go go gold. Got gem encrusted gold motorcycle helmets ?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:17 - ID#252150)
BC's performance @ the prayer meeting was bad enough, but HC almost
surpassed him today for insincerity. She went on & on about the poor little Irish girl who was blinded & about the suffering that the Irish have endured. What about the millions of Iraqis & especially the 100s of thousands of children that have died because of the USGs inhumane policies? I guess that she can somehow rationalize their suffering. IMO, what BC did with Monica is insignificant. Even the lying.
But, he is directly responsible for the destruction of the pharmaceutical plant in Sudan that supplied 60% of the medicine to the impoverished Sudanese, which is a crime against humanity, & for that he should be impeached. He is also responsible for the suffering & misery that millions of innocent Iraqis are enduring.

I only hope that the Budhists are right & "what goes around, comes around".

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:18 - ID#78136)

The one thing I like about this site is the diversity
of opinion and we certainly have it on the Starr
Report. Forget the sex part, is a President above
the law? Perjury, obstruction, witness tampering,
etc. I think Starr did the right thing. He has
the goods on Slick regarding Watergate, Travelgate,
and most other significant criminal activity. It
is time for a resignation. How big a stick should
Starr wave? Any reasonable man when faced with this
evidence, certainly would step down. If Slick does
not resign, then the rest of his criminal activity
will come out. I guess he is just a hillbilly
after all. Please, no more cigars.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:26 - ID#340262)
Vista Gold (VGZ)
Does anyone know for sure what Vista Gold last traded
at all the quote sources are carring 1.00 with trades
at 16:30 which would be after the official closing of
amex - whats the story - cjk -

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:30 - ID#286230)
Vista closed at C$.28--up 3 cents on the day.
according to Canada Stock Watch

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:39 - ID#206235)
@ Clinton Apologists.....
I MUST agree with JD. Re Clinton and his phony Liars.. I mean lawyers, his aides, his insincere party line apologists. Garp, gag, retch, vomit.......

The STARR report merely scratches the SURAFCE of what is wrong with this evil piece of excrement. This president is the biggest embarrasment to the country in modern times.

Reading and listening to his lap dog, hypocritical, lying, phony, DNC scripted apologists makes me only slightly less ill than BC hismelf...make that MORE ill actually... at least BC, as a psychotic sociopath doesn't KNOW how evil he himself is.........his lying aplologist's do....


(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:40 - ID#373403)
Cool spinning cube applet on my site
Free of charge from intel.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:43 - ID#340262)
Vista Gold
I just checked the nasdaq quote server
on the wsj site they say 1.00 also called my
brokerage service they have 24 hour service
and they quoted 1.00 ( very interesting ) add that
to 1/2 dozen sites with one - some even show
the last three trades 1/2 - 3/4 -1 so who is
correct - cjk -

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:46 - ID#255151)
Drudge Report

Drudge says he has a videotape of Clinton sneaking off into a private area of White House with an intern...and it ain't Monica.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:49 - ID#286230)
If I could get $1 I'd sell all I don't have

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:50 - ID#290213)
I'm going to assume that Mr. Bill gets away with this it means that all Government employees can now have sex on the job, lie about it till it is proven, lie some more, and then apologize ( insincerely of course ) and then go back to work.

If I were a Federal employee who had been fired for such, I think I would be for filing a discremination lawsuit. After all, I know a married couple that got fired for it and they were having sex with each other. In their own car!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:52 - ID#401460)
BART - alternate URL ?
Error: 404--not found

Error description:

Error: document ``/cgi-bin/comments/investment/display_short.cgi.'' does not exist

What you should do:

If you feel this is a server problem and you wish to report it, please contact
with the following information:

The error message: 404--not found
The URL you were trying to access ( my guess is
"/cgi-bin/comments/investment/display_short.cgi." )
The browser you are using ( my guess is "Mozilla/3.0Gold ( Macintosh; U; PPC ) " )
Your hostname ( my guess is )
The local time ( Fri Sep 11 23:00:26 1998 )
And any other information you think is relevant
You may access the main page at

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:52 - ID#238422)
John Disney
Brother John,

It's not all lost. My very close friend, who works for
the Dem.Congressman, told me that when she was watching
Billy on TV today apologizing again ( he seems to start
enjoying this procedure more and more ) , she was about
to start puking. Of course, there are more than enough
political prostitutes in this country, as in any other
country in the world, no exceptions...Billy is a
physiologically normal guy, but does not have such
simple thing as honor...the problem indeed is that some
people seems to be O.K. with this because..."ECONOMY is
doing good". So, ask a logical question - if ECOMONY is
doing not good, then it's not O.K., means honor is sold
for money? Would you sell your honor for money? I bet
you would not. Guess, political prostitution is kind of
popular around here, it sucks and stinks...

The funny thing is that Billy has nothing to do with
economy....typical Soviet style f*cking propaganda
about the Dear Father of the nation...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:53 - ID#248180)
YUK @ JD's post 00:47 AGREED
Brother John, Legal agruments aside, let us consider; trust, honesty, integrity, leadership role models, being faithfull. Clinton is simply a liar, cheat, fraud, skulldugger, adulterer, and now a crimminal under USA law. Guess the poster with Spanish connections agrees with that sort of leadership.
Brother John we formed identical opinions regarding USA citizenship in 1981. Cheers JR

(Sat Sep 12 1998 01:55 - ID#206235)
What a sad day for America
If even one person can read the Starr report, and still stand up and defend this fraud, WJC, you gotta wonder about the future of humanity.

WJC Overheard;

"Oh excuse me senator, can I put your call and the affairs of state on hold for a moment? I'm busy USING a 21 year old intern and it's hard to concentrate on the call......can I call you back maybe? I have heads of state waiting in the anteroom for my dalliances with Monica to be done...may take hours...but it's just my private business you know."

"Oh Betty, can you get some lies staright for me when you testify? And get those presents back from Monica and hide em? And get her a new job and transfer her ouuta here before I get in trouble? "

"Yes my liars, I mean lawyers have it all under control. I didn't lie when I said the earth was flat, all depends on how it's defined, and believe it or notr there are actually U.S. citizens who are STUPID ENOUGH to still support a draft dodging, dope smoking, lying, travel office and white house staff firing, woman abusing, close associate murdering, disloyal, immoral, traitorous, cruise missile firing, sell out like me... WJC..."

"yep, millions of em out there still think I'm just peachy. Maybe some child molesting will boost my ratings even higher...cause I'll be contrite and sincere. And there are a FEW folks still dumb enough to think I have something to do with the economy that Congress refused to let me ruin when I first took office. You know, when Hillary and I wanted to turn the country more socialist than it already was and all...." Yep, One born every minute in the good ole U.S. of A."

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:01 - ID#290213)
I tried the alt. URL and had no problem.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:03 - ID#340383)
Sharefin...Or, anyone else...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:03 - ID#206235)
Clinton'apologist strategy'...attack Starr, the messenger
Reminds me of when a woman's been raped and the sleazy defense lawyer's startegy is to attack the woman and blame her.

An apt analogy since Clinton has indeed raped this fair land. It'll take years to rebuild the credibility of the office of Pres. and undo the damage this Piece of offal has done.

This Cancerous growth known as WJC, should be subjected to whatever cancer cure treatment might cure the sickened nation AND RID US OF THIS TUMOR . High doses of congressional radiation and impeachment chemotherapy might do it.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:06 - ID#340383)
I downloaded the "Singing the Blues," and it seems to be sound-only.
I do not have sound capability. I cannot locate ithe 15-minute-to-load,
1.2 MB file in order to delete it. Can you suggest how I can find it?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:06 - ID#248180)
Brother Oris - Armand Hammer Status for Russia Deals
Brother Oris, Sorry for the long delay in my reply. I did read your suggestion regarding Russian mining. The status that A.Hammer acquired was excellent to say the least. One can do business with the communists. It looks as that is once again a matter fact.
Now seriously, it is late Saturday afternoon and a cool Spring day here in OZ. It is time for the vodka, pickle analysis. In the tradition of my Russian grandmother, I am roasting a fattened goose in preparation for a few friends that will come around for dinner later.
Vodka is at room temperature, champers is chilled, crisp Semmillion on ice, we are blessed, thank God.
Have a nice weekend, cheers JR.

Bart thanks for the site, Go Golden Goose AHHH~~~~

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:08 - ID#267298)
If Clinton remains in power I as a Canadian lose respect
not only for him but for all Americans and I'm sure this will
be the opinion of many people world wide.

PH in LA
(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:10 - ID#225408)
"The STARR report merely scratches the SURAFCE of what is wrong with this evil piece of excrement." BUGal/LGB

Well, if LGB says so, I guess that's good enough for me! Right! Ought to be more than enough for any and all of us, shouldn't it? Well, shouldn't it?

Just one thing.

Where's the proof? the evidence? the discussion that adds to our understanding?

Lots of EMOTION in his post, though. As in "EVIL PIECE OF EXCREMENT". or how about "GARP, GAG, RETCH, VOMIT......." Lots of SHOUTING! Lots of conventional ideology! That tells us a lot, doesn't it? None of us have ever heard any of that before, have we? Well, have we?

He tells us he's "ill from reading and listening..." "make that MORE ill, actually..."

But where are the quotations? Exactly what has he been reading? Where's even a shred of documentation?

Like we're all supposed to so INTERESTED in whether he is ill or not! Well, aren't we all INTERESTED in how SICK LGB actually is? Isn't that important? Well, isn't it?

For a guy with so many pretensions to being a "rocket scientist" and the "voice of reason", seems like there sure ain't much science or reason in his post.

No need to explain, anyone. It's all ASB to me.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:18 - ID#238422)
I like you and you are my brother. I really wish you luck
and success. I'm sure that because you know vodka/pickle
secret you know the rest....

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:24 - ID#401460)
PH in LA

You should familiarize your self with the Independent Prosecutors responsibilities
and powers. Ignorance is not an excuse anymore, the information is all over the place.

Star was appointed by the Attorney General of The United States, a Clinton appointee; and he had to go to the AG , for direction in the Monica case. It was the AGs decision as to whether the Monica case warranted an investigation and whether her office or the Independent Prosecutors office would handle the investigation.

You LA people should quit trying to defend the Yeh Hoo, he has admitted that he is a Liar, and as in other criminal investigation only the sentencing remains.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:25 - ID#267298)
PH in LA
You are one sick puppy, consult a shrink....

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:29 - ID#350145)
fed rate cut @ currency crises
feds should cut .5 in 30 days - dollar will fall gold should rise. currency crises cannot be quantified. floors, ceilings, waves etc should prove of little help - new unknown paradigm - important variables - fear, uncertainty, hedging - gold is great insurance ( as we all know ) plus coming off an 18 year bear mkt. seems upward move is good bet to me. mining shares sure seem like bargin to. if this bet is wrong it was still the right bet. this is a world financial crises the likes of which we may have never seen.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:37 - ID#401460)
PH in LA


(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:37 - ID#393125)
DBog - Let's not paint all Americans with the same brush.
Having lived on the border all my life ( Niagara area ) , Ive made countless trips accross the border to the USA shopping, golf, dinners, etc. and have many friends and relatives south of the border. As far as I'm concerned most Americans are decent, helpful, freindly, and probably the most generous people around.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:39 - ID#238422)
PH in LA
Don't do it again, please, or I'll start talking assault
rifles 7 days a week...By the way, Billy said that he
is very sorry and wants to start all over you know
what he meant...another Monica?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:41 - ID#153110)
@Oh, What a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive
"REPORT INCLUDES UP TO 30 COUNTS OF IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES" But, an offense is not a crime, nor a misdemeanor. How will a bill for an indictment for high crimes and misdemeanors be prepared from evidence of offenses ?

"Emancipation Proclamation" signed A. Lincoln ( the lawyer Abraham knew the proclamation was a fraud. It had even not a name affixed, just an initial, because if it had his name affixed Abraham Lincoln would have been civilly liable. )

Fast forward to Clinton who denied having "sexual relations". Legally speaking.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:42 - ID#401460)

I tried it again and got the same message, I will check my copy and paste again. I E-mailed Bart - ?

Thanks, for the responce, now I know it may be from my side. What ever that means?


(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:43 - ID#238422)
It's true, that is why it sucks so much to have such
a Father of the Nation...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:44 - ID#248180)
All Kitco Chat - Clinton Hangin - Gold a Rockin- Vodka is Nice!!!
Picture This: Next G-7/8 meeting Clinton hands out cigars- you gonna smoke it?
Would you want to encourage your daughter to become a white house intern?
Folk-lore instruction about G.Washington and the cherry tree; what three are we gonna refer to about clinton- hangin tree.
Your son is drafted to bear arms and fight a war that clinton calls; you gonna encourage him to enlist or run to Canada? Is anyone ever going to believe this man again regarding any issue. He just walk/run away.
He call Americans his friends, no real honest American can be a friend of that scum clinton. A real friend of clinton's would introduce him to Dr Kirvorkian's clinic. I would donate the fattened golden goose for his last supper.
My golden goose is browning nicly now. A Giant Gulp to all PM miners and Pm traders and dealers, wishers, hopers, wannabees and generally nice and wonderful people everywhere. Gulp from the part of OZ that faces the Great Southern Ocean.
Bye the way Gold and PM's did very well this week, we are encouraged.
Cheers JR Gulp to ya.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:47 - ID#401460)

I understand that there may be more Monicas?
Wouldn't that be interesting if another one comes forward.

By the way, when is he able to get any work done, it appears that he spends most of his time chasing women and trying to keep out of jail.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:49 - ID#340262)

Is this board about Gold? - or penis sucking ladies?
- Ladies looking for good jobs with great wages - Save
the moral indignation for more worthy causes - people
starving to death in Africa - people unable to buy medicine
because they cant afford it - others not able to see a doctor
because they have no money - kids not able to go to school for lack of funds - I get madder by the moment at the disgusting waste of
money and resources that have and continue to be wasted on
this boring and repetitive story - day after day - night after night -
with no end in sight. - lets get back to the subject at hand
-cjk -

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:52 - ID#284255)
Not sure if you run a Mac.
But if you have a PC clone.
You will find the' godown.wav' file in you internet temp folder inside your windows folder.

Shame you missed out a great music score ( :- ) ) )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:56 - ID#350145)
comex silver was reported down over 1 million oz this week
i have seen it reported that comex silver stocks were down every day last week ( 78+ to 77+ ) . can anyone confirm this?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 02:57 - ID#248180)
Ssppelllinggg eerrrrrrrroorrsssss
Oh my I am sooooooo sorry- please forgive me, - I just want to be your friend, father and I hope to spell better in the future. Well that is a very nice lookin bit a meat, ah I mean, girl over there, scuzze me while I loosen my trousers, I'll be back in a short little while, now hello there young lady. Did you know i am the president of these United States of America, You bettcha trust me, this is what everyone does to get ahead. Next please, hey ph and everyone in la send me your daughter ill teach em real nice.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:02 - ID#238422)
He did do some paper work...remember, Monica brought him
some papers, but then they went to the
it looks like papers were used...jod was completed.
Also, please remember he managed to talk business over the
phone at the same is made out of hardened steel.
Now I understand why some of his supporters call him
"bright and talented..."
May be he should stay, but on the second thought, we can
not force him....he may step down...if Hillary agreees...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:03 - ID#401460)

The President allowing an employee, no an Intern, suck his pecker than lieing about it under oath, and using his office to force others to lie for him is what we are dealing with! What else has he lied about?


This is the subject at hand! Impeachment of the leader of the only country with its head still above water is very significant to Gold and the rest of the world. What is more significant right now?

Including all of the other BS you mentioned.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:09 - ID#401460)

Can you imagine what some world leaders are asking themselves tonight.

Was the President of the US getting a blow job when I was talking to him on the "Hot Line"?

Or parents of other White House Interns , I wonder if he was playing with my daughter!

How can people still defend this Jerk.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:10 - ID#238422)
Are you kidding?
Do you know that gold is up thanks to
one of those penis sucking ladies?
If you don't know, you must carefully read Kitco posts...

Thank you, Kitco, thank you Mr.Bart,
thank you brothers, thank you Monica...

Good night.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:12 - ID#393125)
oris - Father of the Nation
Sucks, yes. But if there's a resignation/impeachment it will be a feather in the cap of America. I only say this as there are so many countries where people would be imprisoned, murdered or just "disappear" if an investigation was even hinted at. Might even bring a needed boost to voter interest in future elections.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:13 - ID#350145)
highrise on ckj
i would think that such an enlightened person would not refer to such things as world hunger as BS

(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:18 - ID#238422)
I'm afraid that this was the case with medicine factory
in Sudan...he probably lost control just for a second talking
anti-terrorist agenda on the phone, and they blew it by mistake...
Sh*t never know what Mr. President on the other
end of the line FEELS....

Good night, my friend.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:21 - ID#401460)
Clinton still at Risk in Jones Case

``American people are now realizing that this man ( Clinton ) is not a truthful man,'' attorney David Pyke told Reuters. ``More and more people are much more inclined to believe Paula than they were in the past.''

He said Starr's report to Congress, which was made public on Friday, proved that Clinton lied under oath and added that Jones' legal team would use details from the report to back up their argument that Clinton should be hit with court sanctions for perjury.

Pyke said they would also use details from Starr's report in a formal motion requesting that Judge Wright penalize Clinton for ``lying'' in his January deposition. Pyke said that punishment could range from a simple fine to a rejection of his pleadings, a move that would give Jones victory in the case.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:23 - ID#238422)
You are correct. This is a free country and it's absolutely
wonderful. I know the difference, I was born and raised in
the U.S.S.R. Time to get some sleep, good night...P.S. Are you
really wild game hunter or you hunt for $500 gold?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:27 - ID#335379)
Hello Missing link: Your site was a delight!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:27 - ID#78136)
Sharefin & y2k
I believe I came across some of your y2k postings
somewhere. I note that a change has come over you
regarding this issue. You still post some URL's,
but your general comments have ceased. I concur
with your thoughts, but I wondered if your actions
or more specifically your silence is a stage that
one goes through eventually?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:32 - ID#335379)
Hello Junior:
Is OZ for Australia?
I'm thinking of vacationing there.
Whats to see?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:42 - ID#401460)

This burden that is laid on us here from time to time, regarding hunger, starvation, pestilence and other tragic events in the world is not as relevant to the price of Gold as the impeachment of the leader of the free world.

Trying to defend Clinton, by implying that his problems are a result of prick sucking women and starving people in Africa or some other inaccurate comment is BS.

People starving is another subject and should be one of real concern, but not in the context as it was used.
CJK posted the following, what I believe to be a sexist and irrelevant comment.

Is this board about Gold? - or penis sucking ladies?

- Ladies looking for good jobs with great wages -
the moral indignation for more worthy causes -
starving to death in Africa - people unable to buy
because they cant afford it - others not able to see a
because they have no money - kids not able to go
to school for lack of funds - I get madder by the
moment at the disgusting waste of
money and resources that have and continue to be
wasted on
this boring and repetitive story - day after day - night
after night -
with no end in sight. - lets get back to the subject at
-cjk -
I am sorry, but what does the above statement have to do with the subject at hand - Gold and the US Presidential Constitutional Crises?


(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:45 - ID#401460)
Good Night All

Have a good weekend!


(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:47 - ID#340344)
Thanks for the help. I did notice a "godown" file. However,

I ( seriously ) thought that that was a file I wrote before I got

CRS disease. I do a lot of biz in Hongkong/China, and there, godown is "warehouse." I operate a wholesale distribution business from a California warehouse, or "godown."

Any success regarding your house?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 03:59 - ID#284255)
I am still as active as ever on my Y2k research.
And it has not been good of late.
My worry level just keeps going up the more I research.

Currently I am working on some more pages of links for my web site.
And that's why I have been quiet.

It sort of takes up 90% of my time working out the code.
But the changes should be well worth it.

As to commenting on the subject.
I prefer to just post the news rather than write about it.
I am getting tired of trying to raise awareness by discussion.

Have been spending alot of my time trying to get the message through to my friends.
But it is most a waste of time.
Better to show them poignant articles and let them do the thinking.

Tis a sad state of affairs.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:01 - ID#401460)
I can sleep better now!

``I couldn't do my job as secretary of state if I didn't have full confidence in the president's ability to make sound judgments and confidence in his leadership and I think that he's doing a great job leading the country,'' said Albright, the first woman to hold the U.S. secretary of state job.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:06 - ID#335379)
Hello all:
IT would seem from a CBS news reel that Starr may not have leaked anything.
And why would he?
The Paula Jones case thrown out, is because of a purjury committed by Klinton.
Indeed it may now get reopened.
The Idea that John Q public of the USA is still impresed with Klinton is a macination
of poll numbers. see AOL polls posted here sometime yesterday. Most John Qs seem to think the "good" economy is Klintons doing. Not so. and people are averse to change, especialy if they fear thier well being is at stake. Unfortunately
We are more into comfort than confrontation. Klinton can squeeze by everyone accept the big G. What goes around does come around. LIfes moral and realtional principals and conciquences are temporarily avoidable but not immutable. The majority thinks the guy is in trouble and ought to be reprimanded.
Klinton is the worst actor to come out of Hollywood ever, but his special effect smoke and mirrors team is fantastic. The cleanup crew isn't bad either.
If Klinton is just a megalomaniac puppet, remeber that all puppets of this kind are destroyed by thier bosses. Nuf said. Please pardon the long post. It is late and the bandwidth seemed wide open..... Go gold, I do Care so I'm buying more.
I knew you could all help me find the right place to put 5 Gs.....
Silverthorn, Thank you for your response.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:08 - ID#284255)
Unfortunately no luck as yet.
The auction was cancelled do to lack of local interest.
Cairns has been badely hurt by the Asian fallout and local economy is faltering.
I should have moved it six months earlier.

Just have to be patient and wait.
Trouble is I'm getting more nervous all the time.
What with the global financial problems and the need to get prepared for Y2k.

The sound clip was Clinton's speech backed to the music score;
Elton John and "Don't let the sun go down on me"

My children thought it was hilarious.
Amazing how 11 year olds are politically/sexually aware these days.
They knew when to laugh at the right places.

What's the world coming to?????

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:09 - ID#45173)
The job of US president, by virute of being a powerful position, attracts the power-hungry. Power hunger manifests itself in many ways. None of them pretty.

I think we all know what Clinton is about. The question is, can you live with it in the context of the good stuff he's doing. This is the same question you have to ask yourself about any leader. In my case the answer is no, not just because of all of the disagreable aspects of his personality and the liabilities of those for me, but becuause he hasn't done much good either. He has been popular because he has had the good forture to be president during an economic boom. But this is ending on his watch. Just as he has been creditied, and taken credit, for positive events beyond his control, he will be vilified for negative events beyond his control.

History will not be kind to Bill Clinton.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:13 - ID#240288)
"It's Different than 1987...Now There Is Systemic Risk"

Short article on market volatility and
derivatives. Note the last line..."No wonder people are fleeing to low risk US Treasury Bonds." It remains to be seen how "low risk" these investments are.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:24 - ID#45173)
I swallowed a 1000 bag of Morgans and so far I feel fine, although I get a lot of stares from people when I run by them on account of the noise.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:36 - ID#393125)
oris - handle Hunter500
Just a hunter of the slippery $-beast. Hunting has been easy the last few years as there has been so many of the little critters running around. Many other hunters are too compacent and the $-beast will elude them now. I'm slowly donning a gold and silver camaflage so as to corale many of the wily $-beasts in the future.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:36 - ID#225283)
Calling Tortfeasor or other students of Con Law

Please explain to my fellow Kitco posters that impeachment is the equal to a peaceful coup ...and that the founding fathers intended to resrve a Presidential impeachment for "High crimes & ( not or ) misdemeaners" which specifically pose a threat to the stability and function of the government.

While I do not condone WJC's actions or statements I hardly think they every threaten the stability of the government or the political process.

There are remedies at Law which specifically address those actions ...Presidential impeachment is not one of them.

I picked up some Australian friends this evening coming in from down under and they could not beleave all the money "that you Americans have pissed away on this thing...okay he got caught...big deal"...

They went on to tell me how the former PM ( Hawke I think ) and his wife had a similiar arraingement to further his political aspirations and get him elected...

I would say that most of people outside of the USA are laughing at the fact that the world economy has gone to hell in a hand basket and the only country in the world the has a chance to "save the day " by jump starting the world economy is commiting economic suicide via impeachment procedings.

Many of the posts I read are gleeful with the effect all of this has had on the POG...but at what cost...I have said many times on the site that I do not think most sane people would want to suffer through a deflationary period just so the could make a killing in the gold market...The overall long term costs to the world may be far to great...I don't know about the rest of you but in addtion to my gold holdings I have some substantial
investments in Bonds ( although I will be taking profits soon ) , and a substantial amount of time and money tied up in several other going concerns which will be heavily impacted by instability in the US careful what you wish for you just might get it t you may nt be able to afford the overall costs America...Look before you leap....

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:37 - ID#45173)
PH in LA

If you read The Economist and other publications, the nations of the world have weighed in with contempt for the American obsession with sexual matters. The world is in a serious financial crisis that demands leadership. Yet the world sees the American people focused in a childish and self-absorbed way on the sexual misconduct of its president.

I was visited by some Brazilians last week. They were polite but could bearly contain their disapproval of the frivolous way that Americans are dealing with this issue when they badly need to see leadership during a world financial crisis that's now dragging them into a hole and has the potential to undo decades of hard won political and economic progress and reform.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:45 - ID#225283)

Most folks are completely clueless about the derivative exposure of nearly all of the worlds major banks and financial services companies...Huge exposure!! Very scary!!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:46 - ID#432148)
Nicodemos - Your 04:06
Couldn't uv said it better myself. The polls are a farce. Their inconsistency makes them a laugh. We know what they are trying to prove of course. Talk about propaganda spin. They say people think he is doing a great job but hate his guts? I don't believe it! That ain't human nature.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:52 - ID#225283)

I concure I too have friends in Brazil, Chile, Mexico,Russia, the Ukraine...and they are all dazed and amazed that the Titanic is sinking and we are worried about arraingement of the deck chairs

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:52 - ID#45173)
@Bart Kitner
This site is such an excellent resource, I can't thank you enough for maintaining it. Having a backup site is greatly appreciated as well. Losing Kitcomm for even an hour is especially painful now. With a lot of us watching the world economy melting down before our eyes through the kitcomm portal, when kitcomm goes offline it's like watching an action movie to the part where the good guy is about to kill the bad guy and the projector breaks. A backup projector! Thanks!

The train derailment story is a good one. I think someone issues ISPs a list of plausible excuses. Earthlink is excellent but told me when they were out for hours that a squirrel had crawled into a transformer and knocked power out in the neighborhood. That's possible, but two other people there had given me the same reason on two other occasions. They either have a serious squirrel problem or they're not telling the truth.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:53 - ID#240288)
High Crimes and Misdemeanors

Congress has the power, under the Constitution, to decide what constitutes high crimes and misdemeanors. If they decide that adultery is grounds for impeachment and removal from office, then the President will be impeached and removed. There is absolutely no check on that power, other than having to face the electorate in the next election.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 04:56 - ID#386245)
Well, that was such a nice apology...
...and bjC ( bill jefferson Clinton ) is such a nice man. I think I'll vote for him.

You can't do that Nick. He's a Yank. Besides, he's finished running for office.

But he's such a nice man and he sounded so sincere. Even Hillary has forgiven him, and she's such a nice lady.

She knew about his hundreds of affairs all the time, Nick.

Oh no, that's not possible. She's such a sweet lady. I wish she were president.

Don't worry Nick. They're working on it.

I wish they were Aussies, so I could vote for them. They are such nice people. Why don't we have nice people running our country?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 05:04 - ID#240288)

Scary indeed, that 100 to 500 trillion out there in derivatives. No one really knows how much is involved. The individual banks and brokerages themselves probably have no clue as to the amount of exposure their firms have. Recall Barings bank a few years ago. We are in uncharted waters here. Good reason to have a little immunity to all this in the form of Gold, eh! Good night all. Pleasant dreams.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 05:05 - ID#386245)
What will bjC's popularity rating be...
...with the DOW at 4000 to 5000??

(Sat Sep 12 1998 05:11 - ID#225283)

Its the economy stupid...people don't give a sh*t about anything until it effects their pocketbook...the polls are not wrong...if you were to check up on the latest polls you would find that WJC numbers have fallen but they are still up there...several indepentdant polls have shown the same trend...I met with aN biz associate recently that happens to be a partner with Pricewaterhousecooper LLP ( he consults on major REIT deals ) and he loathes Bill & Hillary ...I was finally able to get him to see the light that just because he dislikes B&H does not mean that impeachment would be the bes solution for he country and the global economy...he had personalized the matter ... you just cannot due that...the media and its neverending search for the next Gulf war, OJ, etc...has cont. to fan the flames...& the opposition in the form of Ken Star realize that he had better come up with something that both the moronic masses and the media outlets could sink their teeth into so that they could have the filler needed to hold an audience long enough to sell more soap.....

(Sat Sep 12 1998 05:20 - ID#386245)
Has anyone mentioned gold today??
All you new squillionaires out there--don't get too excited. The XAU has just gone up @40%. Have you ever seen a 40% move without a bit of correction/profit taking?? Same for Aussie and SA gold markets. In an ideal ( gold ) world, we'll see another 40% rise in the next two weeks. That would be even nicer than having such a nice man for Prez. In the real world, however, things go up and down. You guys/gals know all about down, dont you?? This up stuff is a bit new to all of us. We have to take our time to get used to 'up'. It is a new concept and will take a little time. Be patient.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 05:21 - ID#280214)
Sharefin - I agree with your 03:59
The evangelical fire to help people to help themselves and their families is hard to maintain when it seems they are not listening. So you with your web page and me with my stapled handouts - we offer them the info and let them figure it out. I had one lady who came back and order TEN MORE SETS of my packet to distribute to friends and relatives - YES!! Cases like these help keep us going.
But there are those which we will see more and more of, both here and on the street, who just roll their eyes and say its just a little glitch. Just like those who say it's only about sex. And those who buy more stocks and scorn Gold. With them I sorely tempted to give up and let them reap the consequences. A fellow store owner admitted the other day that he should have gotten out of the stock market back when I first told him. But even now he still hangs in there - just like Goldbugs as their precious continues to sink. Maybe this is just typical human behavior - hanging onto the old comfy security blanket regardless of it being threadbare and riddled with holes. Just like victims of domestic violence who keep going back - for comfort and security in spite of getting the crap beat out of them again and again.

So we tell those who will listen to prepare for Y2K - buy food, supplies, Gold, Silver, generators, extra clothes, ( and guns & ammo for Americans ) etc. Even those who have their heads in the sand we continue to tell - because they will be pounding on our doors for help after Y2K. I'd rather tell 'em now and have them prepare than have to deal with them later with a shotgun. But it does get tiring though, doesn't it Sharefin.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 05:22 - ID#225283)

I think that you are buying into to the Gerald Ford school of thought...and his comment was that "impeachable offences are what ever the congress says they are..."

Well G. Ford never was all that right bright in the first place...and I think he was speaking tongue in cheek when he made that comment...constitutional law scholars would argue that point...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 05:23 - ID#225283)

(Sat Sep 12 1998 05:32 - ID#225283)
Will you be around on Sat. afternoon?

If so , I shall give you a call re:turbo project.

Aloha All

(Sat Sep 12 1998 05:35 - ID#26793)
Mexico declares war on currency speculators

(Sat Sep 12 1998 05:44 - ID#26793)
Pressure mounts on world leaders to "do something" to calm markets.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 05:51 - ID#26793)
Canadian gold stocks climb on international turmoil

(Sat Sep 12 1998 06:00 - ID#210114)
We live in Interesting Times
Greetings Kitcoites!!

Have been very busy lately so I haven't been posting. Having said that I don't think anyone missed me.

The $US 20 rise in POG in the past 2 weeks has been encouraging but it remains to be seen if it is the start of a true bull. I notice that even Bill Buckler has expressed some doubt as to whether gold will take off from here.

It is interesting to note that there is talk of gold being a 'safe haven'. A nice start.

There is a beginning in a fal in confidence in US$ and US$ denominated assetts. Also a nice start.

But, gold has recieved so much bad press lately that the psychological recognition of gold as a safe haven may be damaged. While the moves up have been encouraging, they have not been earth shattering.

Perceptions of CB sales still linger. ( Czechs sold 31 tonnes last week )


I still maintain that POG has to get above $US300 AND STAY THERE. I, like you, are hoping for a raging bull. But we have had two sucker's rallies in the last year and I don't want to be caught.

Well there's my analysis.

Still expect Dow to fall. Still hoping that floating currency system dies. Still am a Keynesian.

Live Long and Prosper.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 06:03 - ID#254321)
EURO strikes again!, What will bring down WJC: hundreds of affairs
SDRer: I love your comment about Spain and Portugal -- you quoted someone as saying that if they were not preparing for the EURO, Spain and Portugal would have had to devalue their currenies due to losses ( I presume ) .

That is priceless. I guess that just means that Spain and Portugal can now defy economic gravity now that the EURO is 'on line'. What is even more amazing is that the EURO trade is still infinitesimal relative to regular currency trade for those countries. Who are they kidding? Well I guess if you can fool some of the people all the time, and some of the people are the majority, it might not be so hard.

Who am I to talk? There are still a number of fools who support our US president.

I think the bottom line is that we are going to have a EURO crisis. Forget the EURO is being a viable threat to the US dollar. Probably a pre-y2k problem.

With respect to the president, his lies and coverups, he confided in Monica Lewinsky about having hundreds of affairs with other women. The many lady business is in the Starr report, I think, about the time he told Monica that their affair was over. The message was that he was trying to go 'cold turkey' as they say, sexwise. This means that WJC has outdone JFK and all the other formet presidents when it comes to indiscriminate sexual activity. What a farce it is to compare WJC to all other presidents or Democrats who have had an affair with a consenting adult. WJC is in a class all by himself -- dysfunctional.

Well this is a big green light for the Paula Jones lawsuit, as this is an admission to his 'little problem'. So now WJC is in trouble on two items -- the Paula Jones Lawsuit -- which now has legal grounds, and the Monicagate situation, where he had sexual relations with Monica, as defined by Susan Webber Wright. So he lied in the Paula Jones business, as well as in the Monica business.

Now that the stack of cards ( lies ) is falling down, it is likely that a few of the hundreds of other women will come forward without fear for their children ( Kathleen Willy ) , or for themselves. As I recall, it was Kathleen Willy's cat that met an untimely end, about the time she was to come forward. Didn't one of Monica's Whitehouse intern friends die rather suddenly in the very same Starbucks Coffee shop where Monica was caught E-Mailing a message to the Whitehouse?

WJC knows he is in deep trouble. You should read Ambrose Evans Pritchard's new piece on the possible indictment of Hillary in World Net Daily. I know nothing that contradicts AE Pritchard's version of the truth.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 06:04 - ID#210114)
Starr Report
Anyone got a Internet address for me??

(Sat Sep 12 1998 06:08 - ID#21275)
EJ comment on 4:37 post
The Regan group started this debt expansion in 82. WJC, AG, and RR expanded it in 92 by bailing out the banks through 94, then the strong dollar policy. Also Japan, China, the tigers and most other countries contributed, by holding excessive dollar reserves, to this bazaar distorted unstable world financial structure that has to be unwound in the only way that it can happen by not honoring the liability

(Sat Sep 12 1998 06:08 - ID#257309)
Comex warehouse report for PM

Is anybody able to tell me what the internet address is where I could find the Comex and or the LME warehouse report on PM, and how often?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 06:10 - ID#210114)
Beaming Up now
Vote Australian Labor Party

(Sat Sep 12 1998 06:27 - ID#254321)
The sign of classic 'Gold Bug Fever'
Nick@C: Good advice. It seems around here that gunshy but severely afflicted Gold bugs wait for the gold rally, and pile in just as it corrects on its way up. I am waiting for the next downturn when WJC's counterattack hits the press. His spindoctors play public opinion the way a grandmaster plays the markets. Timing.

Any idea why Oil is doing so well? Almost as good a rise as Gold. By the way, I should have bought more gold equities at the bottom we just had -- I was afraid of a crash that did not materialize. You were right. I could have turned around, and sold most of my profitable trades a few days ago, and kept what I have now. I would have made up for all of my gold-related losses for the last two years, plus a tidy profit of about 25%. Wasn't gutsy enough with all the gloom and doomers making me nervous. Kept my ABX call options, which are doing nicely ( funny money only ) . Wish I could say the same for my PAASF and SSC. The big guys in silver played us like a violin.

Well: At least I had the sense to sell almost everything the day before the 20% ( or so ) market correction. Almost everyone I know is in the markets for the duration, because how else can you save money for retirement? I've given up warning them -- I only tell people who are ready to listen.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 06:27 - ID#316193)
Re. Vista Gold Bogus 540% Rise....
If you own some Vista, I recommend that you read this discussion:

(Sat Sep 12 1998 06:28 - ID#386245)
Starr report

(Sat Sep 12 1998 06:45 - ID#386245)
G'day JTF
I get a bit 'testy' sometimes, as you may have noticed the other day. Nothing intended. Probably comes from trading tens of thousands of squid on a regular basis. As an in 'n outer, I get a bit worried after such a large rise. I have solved the problem ( somewhat ) by dividing my portfolio into sections; one tradeable and the other to hold for the long term. I use stop losses, but have been caught out a couple of times when there were big drops and no buyers. So I am 'holding' two shares at substantially below my stop losses. I have actually been adding to them at these ridiculous prices--thus breaking another of my rules ( never buy a share that is going down ) . Oh well, nobody's perfect.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a correction right now, so may just take some profits Monday before you guys open. If the up-move continues I'll still have plenty left. If it weren't for this trading, I would be in deeper than bjC at an intern convention. Should have my head examined for trading a bear market ( pms ) , but that is what I know and love--so I stick with it. I firmly believe the long-term benefits will make up for the short-term stresses. Sure beats the casino. Cheers, Nick.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 07:03 - ID#386245)
I don't know mate. Maybe ANOTHER was right. The insiders obviously know something. Stocking up for northern winter? The weather has been so damned bad that anything could happen. Probably just trading paper for hard assets. Iran/Afghanistan tensions?? Read somewhere that Iran is sending 80,000 troops to the border. Iran is a big producer. If the price is going up, someone forgot to tell the oil company I own. Serves me right for buying in-ground oil in Vietnam.

Mike Sheller
(Sat Sep 12 1998 07:31 - ID#347447)
Oil has been one of the few things I've been right about this year, so let me venture a guess to your question as to why it is strong with gold. Ultimately, as we all know here at Kitco, the equation is a gold ( real money ) vs paper one. So obviously when one is strong the other is weak, etc. Lately the dollar is giving signs it is topping, as the Yen seemingly cant get much softer. We have seen the ascendancy of paper ( so-called "financial" assets ) over commodity money for 2 decades now. Sort of like what happened from 1949 to 1966, except that interest rates were mildly rising when the stock market reached its upper limit in '66. Today, after two decades of disinflation ( relatively speaking vis a vis paper/commodity price relationships, we may again be at the upper limit of the stock market, and the bond market. We may not be so much in an extended bear stock market as in the first shudder of a larger transitionary pattern. Everyone expects either a "buy and hold" magic formula, or an imminent "crash". We may now be in a period when neither happens, but rather a huge transitionary pattern begins to ratchet into place. The last major asset inversion to favor gold and commodities occurred in '72 - from 72 to 80. But it was preceded by roughly 5 or 6 years of transitionary activity where interest rates began to rise, and were beaten down in two successive Fed tightenings which led to small recessions and bear markets in stocks. Finally, when the massive inflation of the 1960's ( Vietnam, Great Society, Foreign aid, deficit financing, simple statistical money creation, etc ) permeated the financial system in the 1970's, paper fled to real things as the dollar lost value. Today we have undergone a MASSIVE expansion of credit ( Funding huge deficits, year after year, debt instrument inflation, financial system inflation ) - and while it has not gone out into society to be utilized to acquire real goods as in the 60's and 70's, it is here. Unless it is totally destroyed in a paper asset meltdown, which IS possible, but what are the odds? There may be another scenario - a less drastic, more ordinary one, at hand. If there is a simple asset inversion in the cards, chief among the first sensitive real things to react to this process, whether underway or impending, is gold and oil. They are the sophisticated harbingers of what may be to come. They are merely twitching at present, like the toes of Ingemar Johansson after Floyd Patterson knocked him out in their second fight. But they will rise off the mat to dance another day.
This transition may take a while, but it may also lead to the big gold ( and oil ) bull many here have been awaiting. Probably by 2003-2005, when the hot action should be clearly underway. That is not to say that there won't be a gradual base built before that. If we are now probing the bottom ( in '98 ) then 99 and 2000 may be reassuringly positive, and fool many goldbugs into accepting a mere $350 or 400 for their gold. I see the astrological pressure off oil in early 99 after a final bout of weakness in Jan/Feb.
As for gold, the bottom may well be in. As for stocks, I still think the atmosphere is far too negative, and too much news is out for this to be "the crash." But who knows?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 07:39 - ID#226299)
@the scene
I said Thursday P:M that if gold broke above the days high, that it would probably encounter the heavy resistance of 300 ( Dec basis ) , and then correct, with silver following gold within its own numbers context. Then we'd see what it would do next. Funny how support and resistance areas work. Markets are ALWAYS using them. So, now what's next? I be REAL cautious if Dec gold broke 294 by much! I do not like the fact that silver broke a little lower than I thought reasonable. That might very well indicate what will quickly be upon it. BE AWARE! Also given the desimation that the dollar has undergone, I would be anticipating a LARGE correction! Watch out gold if/when this happens! And it just very well could be that the XAU is THAT slightly leading indicator for gold. Don't 'dis' it.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 07:53 - ID#280214)
As easier site to access the Starr Report

But even this one may be hammered all weekend once the word gets out.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:00 - ID#280214)
An another site for the Starr report

Sites off the beaten path may be easier to access.
Has anyone had success downloading the thing? From where?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:10 - ID#284255)
Why Clinton's smile is worth so much?
The power of politics within the markets.
Here's more evidence of the PPT at work.
Exact timing of BC's bible show, with the ramping of the futures.

Once again Oldman's call pays the money.
Play the politics.

The PREM rose from -10 to +16 a 26 point move.
Smells like the PPT hard at work.
Followed by a little bit of promting later in the day.
Yes, it does wear one down.
But it's like pumping the bilges.
One just keeps on going.

I am constantly amazed by the warmth and reception
From the few who I have help enlighten.
Payment in gold,
Is always transacted.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:16 - ID#280214)
Highrise - thanks for the urls in your 02:37, especially

I downloaded and condensified it ( smaller margins, more efficient text flow, etc. ) into ten sheets which will be copied, collated and stapled and distributed to doubters who think Clinton is a nice guy and not the murdering, traitorous, treasonous, lying SOB that we know him to be.
( Okay - maybe HE isn't guilty - directly. His friends just took care of business for him. If you believe that, there is this lost Gold mine...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:19 - ID#284255)
Squirrel - try here
This site seems to work well.
No problems so far.

Also this site has many accesses.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:23 - ID#280214)
Yes, sharefin, if we don't keep bailing
then the boat will sink.
It doesn't help when some are drilling holes in the bottom,
and others are trying to save lying, murdering traitors
by pulling them into our boat where they eat our food, drink our water, screw our women, bitch at us for not rowing hard enough and crap in the water that we are trying to bail overboard.
A .38 in these circumstances may be essential to our survival.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:28 - ID#26793)
The Russian crisis was the first test for the Euro

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:35 - ID#340262)
Does any one know where you can get a figure for
the number of shares in Vista Gold that are
currently short? -cjk -

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:38 - ID#284255)
I prefer the slow death of a peace pipe.
To the quick tug of the bullet.

Whatcha bin smokin???

Just because we need more....

Dear God

A man of integrity would I be --
And wise in Judgment
So dear God, teach me

And brave enough,
Compassionate and good
Resourceful and intuitive
And I would
A touch of humour lest I be severe.
And sound good health.
And please, a modicum of wealth.
For you have given us keen eyes
For beauty and the things we prize

The gift of loving too I need.
For you dear God made Eve a maid
And me dear God a man indeed.
And both with thoughtful care

A moderate man you see
And peaceful -- not a prude
For these few simple things I plea.
Dear God -- remember me --

Dear God

That earlier list
Dear God.
Me surely dreaming!
A moralistic theme
Composed no doubt
In a grey moment

What I'd really like
Dear God
Even now, grown old,
Is a garden
And a woman at my side
To help me tend it
Woman are wonderful friends
And often wonderful gardeners.
Such a loving empathy with life

And this life's a garden
Needing care.
So forget that list
Dear God.
Just take me as I am
And, if there's the chance
Of such a garden
And such a friend
Dear God -- Remember me

Over two thousand years ago Horace -- great Roman poet wrote to a good friend
" This was in my prayers;
A piece of ground not overlarge,
And near to a stream of constant water,
And beside these some little quantity of woodland "
Truly the dream of all peoples.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:39 - ID#280214)
Sharefin, I checked some of those sites
But I want to download the whole report to my hard drive so I can read it without staying online and contributing to tying up the net.
I realize that most of those sites are using the Starr report to boost traffic past their advertisers. But they must be getting it from somewhere so that they can load it into their sites.
I've tried clicking the PDF at:
no success so far.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:43 - ID#411440)
@ Spock: Agreed. Bill Buckler is not sure about this gold
because he is looking at lease rates for gold, and they indicate

POG well under control. I think when gold tests the +$300 level, it

will be hit by a ton of short-selling.

The shorts can't do anything else, as a runaway POG means defaults

and ruin for them, and they can short by borrowing gold at all-time

low lease rates. As far as I know, lease rates are still under 1%,

in fact, the last one I have seen was .41% This means CBs are

almost willing to lease gold for free in order to keep its rise

in check. No bull.

BEWARE This is not a market, it's a manipulation. We will have a

true market, with POG reflecting supply and demand fundamentals only

when lease rates are over 3%. That's a long way up from 0.41%!

I will buy no gold or gold equities unless I can see a day to day

quote for lease rates. Kitco is not posting these quotes. So

I cannot buy bullion from Kitco, or anybody else until they begin

to give sufficient leasing data to allow a logical deduction on the

future direction of the gold market.

Lease rates still say we are poised on the edge of a deflation. If so,

gold will go to $200. IMHO.

I am off to cut wood in the bush, so will check back in with Kitco tommorrow.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:51 - ID#284255)
For those with a spare moment?
Weird but wacky?

Start with the omega file
Then the crimram file

Is this for real?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:56 - ID#280214)
Yes, sharefin, to be left alone to live my life in peace
Y2K may get the gov't off our backs.
And snowy mountains may keep the hoards at bay.
So that I may find peace in a remote mountain valley.
If I should be very fortunate - I may not even need Gold
because one needs it only to trade with other humans
and the fewer people I encounter the happier I may be
( with the exception of a very few like myself ) .

(Sat Sep 12 1998 08:58 - ID#290456)
alexismlokeesol @ COMEX stocks

You can get this at the following site:

Registration is free, and COMEX data is located by clicking on News, then FWN- metals from the menu.

Access to the data is real time for pay subscribers, but on about 8 or 10 hour delay for free.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:03 - ID#280214)
rhody and other posters getting doublespaced
If you go through preview on the way to posting - you will be doublespaced. Every return at the end of a line to start a new line will be doublespaced coming out of preview. If you let wordwrap do its thing and only return at the end of a paragraph, then you will get a doublespace between paragraphs.

Best rule of thumb - don't preview and post ( from preview ) .
If you must preview then come back and post directly to the group.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:08 - ID#284255)
I download this from here okay.

Here's a copy of the major Monica piece.

Takes a few seconds to download.

Patience it's a big file.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:09 - ID#29048)
WSJ on Metals
PRECIOUS METALS: December gold jumped $3 to settle at $296.80 a troy ounce Friday on the Comex division of the Nymex.

Traders pointed to the dollar's weakness against the yen and continued uncertainty about President Clinton. With much of Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr's report to Congress on President Clinton made public Friday, amid accusations of perjury and abuse of power, the rally on the gold market could very well continue, traders said.

Gold was fixed Friday afternoon in London at $293.35 an ounce, up $2.85 from Thursday's late fixing. Elsewhere, December silver fell 2.5 cents to close at $5.025 a troy ounce, and October platinum added 80 cents to $366.30 a troy ounce.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:09 - ID#290456)
Elliott Wave Analysis of DJIA and Bonds
Click on 9-14 update

Lan Man
(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:11 - ID#320108)
@Impeach Starr! If thats possible
Just as Davidson of SI has written about all along - Starr is a lameduck prosecutor. So anybody know where the report is for the years of investigation before "Lipps" Lewinsky came into the spotlight?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:14 - ID#280214)
sharefin - those weird files...
Somebody must've had a lot of fun writing that stuff.
At least science fiction novels have a reasonable plot and are better grounded in "reality" - science and human behavior as we know it.

Has anyone checked out the "Book of Urantia"?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:19 - ID#284255)
oleman . . Jesse Jackson has spoken. As usual, I couldnt understnd most of what he
said---his mouth is full of something----but I DID gather that everything's
alright with Bill. He's now a holy man. Living at the foot of the cross. And
in the White House. He aint goin nowhere~!!!!!!

oleman . . The Repugs aint got the CAJONES to impeach Slick. Before the end of
the month, they'll be on TV apologiging to him. Bill and Hillary will die in
the White House.

oleman . . Within the wek, Slick'll come on TV and tell Dick and Jane that Newt
Gingrich has caused their MF's to go down, and he WILL be believed. The Dems
will take over the House in November as a result.

wilddave . oleman: An analyst/guest on CNNfn this morning suggested that Americans
file a class action lawsuit against Slick for lost $ in their MF accts due
to the scandal. He was completely serious, I kid you not.

oleman . . Nope. We're going down. Now that its clear that Slick will be able to
successfully blame the drop in the mkt on his Repub enemies, the further
down we go, the stronger Slick becomes. So its LOOK OUT BELOW!!!!

twocents . .skye, i just hope the executive orders don't start to's
getting down to that i fear.

skye5323 . . - agreed on the exec. orders

skye5323 . . - orders come in the panic phase?

oleman . . Slick tearfully asked the preachers to forgive him for the awful things he
had done. At the same time his lawyers were distributing a 78 page tome
proving thet he has never done anything wrong. That's whatcha mean when you
say, "He's got em comin and goin.": ) : )

flashgo . . mommy, whats a blow job? sheesh, poor america

thrifty . .So you all don't think they're going to have a mom & pop Clinton ralley so
as to pressure all those congressmen to forgive and forget?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:19 - ID#329186)
To all ( Londons Streets paved with gold by passing cars
Today's London times
brief extract Dr Hazel Pritchard a geologist from cardif University
" I got out of my car on Sunday at 6.30 when I thought there would be little traffic took out my brush & dustpan
Conclusion the highest levels of precious metals were found in "posh " areas ~ concentrations are : in the collected dust 126 parts per billion for platinum,99 for palladium and 22 for rhodium with trace amounts of gold.
But the scientist said when the dust was refined using a method that mimics gold panning in a stream to discard the light dust particles concentrations lept 10 fold
Dr pritchard recorded concentrations of 1679 parts per billion for platinum 2945 for palladium 272 for gold 220 for rhodium the levels almost exactly reflect the ratios of the metals used in the manufacture of catalytic converters. economic recovery comes into play at 4,000 parts per billion

The same must apply to all cities where emissions are regulated


(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:23 - ID#29048)
Barron's covers Gold funds (finally)
Notice the lack of info on S.A. gold cos.

September 14, 1998

Gold Glitters -- for Now

Bullion funds bounce back; also, meet a guy who saw the crash coming

By Barry Henderson

After a painful exile, managers of gold funds are stepping back into the limelight. With stock markets around the world jittery, investors are seeking safety in gold stocks, and that has sent the average gold fund up more than 20.26% during the past two weeks.

"The atmosphere has improved for us," says George Domolky, who manages the Fidelity Select Gold Portfolio and Fidelity Select Precious Metals funds. Like most of his counterparts, Domolky invests primarily in gold-related stocks, which were bid up last week as investors watched the price of gold bullion climb back up from an 18-year low. And for every 1% that gold bullion rises, the stocks of gold companies tend to rise 3%-5% because, for them, higher gold prices mean sharply higher earnings.

The rebound in bullion prices was caused in part by Clinton's troubles at home and the falling value of the dollar against other currencies. The biggest winners last week were well-established gold producers like Barrick Gold, Freeport McMoRan Copper & Gold, Newmont Mining, Homestake Mining and Getchell Gold. Last Thursday, Freeport moved up 16% to close at 18, while Getchell gained 25% to end the day at 15. Homestake jumped 8% to 11 7/8, and Barrick gained 9.5% to close at 18 1/16. As a group, gold mining stocks are still off about a third from their highs in April.

Gold-fund managers are clinging to the hope that this rally is more than a short-term spike in prices caused by short-covering at hedge funds that had been betting that gold prices were headed lower. The managers say that as the dollar continues to slide and the S&P 500 backtracks, gold stocks will continue to gain ground. "People finally see that our stock market isn't invulnerable," says Ralph Aldus, who is part of the portfolio team that runs the U.S. Global Investors World Gold fund. "It's only in the U.S. that gold has been a non-performing asset during the past two years." That's an understatement when you look at the longer-term performance of all of these funds. So far this year, the average gold fund is down 15.20%. During the past five years, the average gold fund has lost 9.97% per year.

For now, the past pressures on gold seem to have abated. Nevertheless, foreign central banks could once again begin selling gold. Already countries like Canada, Australia and Belgium have been forced to use up some of their gold reserves to support their own currencies. But portfolio managers don't sound worried. Suzanne Killea, who co-manages the Franklin Advisors Gold Fund, says the market is no longer worried about the central bank "overhang." "A lot of that has already been resolved."

Dan Leonard, manager of the Invesco Strategic Gold fund, agrees. He thinks that most central bankers realize that selling off gold to protect their currencies is a risky strategy. "Canada sold some gold to support the Canadian dollar, and it didn't work," he says. The turmoil in the emerging markets, especially in Asia, could actually work to support the price of gold, according to Mark Johnson, manager of the USAA Gold fund. "I don't think many people have focused on the fact that the institution of currency controls in Malaysia is a long-term positive for gold," he says. "If that works politically, I think you could see other countries doing the same thing." By restricting the movement of currencies throughout this region, demand for gold should increase, according to this line of reasoning. Fidelity's Domolky says that not only have gold stocks been recovering because of improvements in the price of gold itself but the fundamentals of some of the larger gold mining companies have clearly gotten stronger as well. "The larger companies have cut costs and improved their balance sheets," while the smaller, weaker producers have gone by the wayside, he says. "I think over the next 12-18 months you're going to see more mergers and acquisitions in the industry."

Despite the recovery in gold shares, it's not clear that mutual-fund investors are convinced that these funds are much more than short-term trading vehicles. The shareholder base of these funds is notoriously fickle, sometimes buying and selling the funds in the course of a day or two. Stay tuned.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:26 - ID#412286)
Lease Rates
Are low lease rates bearish? I would argue that low lease rates reflect a lack of demand among producers to borrow and sell forward. High lease rates would indicate high demand and thus some tightness in the market due to high loan demand. I think the low lease rates reflect that this market is forward sold out. Remember it is the borrowers who intiate the transactions with the CBs not the other way around. If loan demand rises so will the lease rates. In sum, the low lease rates could be extremely bullish. The market action certainly supports this view given the recent rise.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:27 - ID#273432)
1929 Crash vs. 1998 - an update
From George Ure:

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:28 - ID#280214)
Lan Man - Bingo's 21:54 addresses your question
"Show me the contents of the other 2 smaller reports Starr has in reserve ( discussed on CNBC ) . If Klinton doesn't step down over the 400 pager, then the other two will flush him down the friggin toilet. Starr must have made a deal with someone to present the least damaging report first. Monicafolly is weany."

Where oh where is a comprehensive report of Clinton letting {over the objections of security & military experts} the Chinese have our technology on missiles, satellites, supercomputers, MIRVs, AND Long Beach Naval Shipyard, AND Panama Canal facilities, AND gosh knows what else. While he was doing that to help the Chinese target us - he was preventing us from implementing our own missile defense systems {legistlation passed by Congress and signed by him then he refused to appropriate the funding - this from Wall St. Journal last year}
And then there is the favor done the Lippo's Groups low-sulfur coal operations when Clinton locked up a major US deposit of low-sulfur coal under a new National Monument which he surprised everyone with.

Is there a fairly comprehensive list of this REALLY IMPORTANT STUFF out there on the net somewhere. I've check a number of sites and get only bits and pieces - which I may copy/paste together one day.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:35 - ID#29048)
Lan Man (impeach Starr)
The years previous to Affair Lewinski were spent nailing down double digit ( I think 17 ) convictions in the Whitewater afair. Many of Clinton's cronys in the Arkansas Mafia are serving time, thanks to Judge Starr. Judge Starr is the most successful Special Prosecutor in the short history of the SPs. Notice the WSJ and Barron's articles which I posted today. Both atttribute Clinton's poor character as one of the reasons for the runup in Gold. Starr cannot be impeached, he can be fired. He reports to Waco Janet Reno and through her to WJC.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:44 - ID#342376)
Thanks Sharefin!
For posting Oleman ( Oldman here ) remarks. I'm always interested in what he's saying.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 09:53 - ID#342376)
Answer to a question I posed to Bill Murphy of the Veneroso camp
I asked him to comment on the fact that gold lease rates are still all time lows and that a gold bull never got started without lease rates getting up to 3%. Without lease rates moving up substantially, the shorts just pile on when gold goes over 300. Here's what he said....

"Regarding the lease rates, I follow them every day - short, medium, and long. I know the argument that before gold takes off the lease rates will shoot up first ( and act as an indicator or predictor ) .
Thay may be a very valid point and will be the way it is. We will see. The shorts are going to come out of the woodwork anyway. The fact that a S A producer would dump 100 tonnes on the market right around $290 is an indication of that. Nervous, backward thinking bankers may force other producers to sell on the rallies too.
Great Central Mines of Australia is a case in point. They have to hedge to keep their bankers happy. I know that for a fact.
This is part of the reason gold has acted so poorly. Many of these producers cannot wait to sell and then it feeds on itself. You add CB pre EMU selling to the mix and the price of gold goes tapioca.
If my info is right, the latter is letting up substantially or is ending in a major way. We might even have more CB buying than selling in the months ahead. With a psychology change, the specs will take on the producers and with sharply reduced CB supply, the price should go up and then way up.
Historically, in many, many commodity markets, the trade is short at the bottom. I have seen it in beans, cattle, and copper. Why should this be any different?
George Cole ( I believe he is a proponent of the lease argument ) is one smart cookie. He called the bottom of the gold market better than anyone else I know. He may be right on this too. We just look at it differently. This is a fun one as the proof will be in the pudding and we should know the answer some time soon."

The Hatt
(Sat Sep 12 1998 10:01 - ID#294232)
Timing Golds Moves Is Very Dangerous!
Yes I understand the cautious optimism for golds latest move however the enviroment for gold this time around has changed! This latest move began 15 days ago when i made note that the trading patterns in PDG and ABX were changing! These changes were subtle and that was my clue that accumulation was the best word to describe the trading! The buyers were looking for size and were careful not to move the prices of these two stocks. Large offers were being snapped up off weak bids, on pullbacks bids were weakened once again but all sizeable offers were taken out! This trend continued right through to the latest trading day! Someone is loading up on Gold stocks and I can only assume that these shares are moving into SMART HANDS.
It appears that the idea that gold is finished is beginning to change and as we move forward here it is my humble opinion that more and more funds will venture into gold stocks as a hedge against this stage two bear market. The idea that gold will be held below three hundred because of the risk of derivitives unwinding is a solid one, however IMHO the derivitives have already begun the unwinding process and the financial institutions around the world are hiding the damage! We know of a number of these positions from Russia where the positions have been put in limbo while the powers to be try to figure out the solution to the disaster awaiting both sides of the positions!
Gold simply bounced on friday off stiff resisitance and it is not unusual to see a pullback in price like we saw as it prepares for another assault at the three hundred level. Where i see the strength is that it held its gain for the day unlike in Januarys move it lost all of its previous gains the next day.. GOLD HAS BOTTOMED AND WILL CONTINUE TO GAIN STRENGTH AND BREAKTHROUGH THE THREE HUNDRED BARRIER BY WEDNESDAY OF NEXT WEEK. IF THE MOVE IS STRONG WE COULD SEE THE BEGINNING OF A MASSIVE SHORT SQUEEZE!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 10:06 - ID#258195)
Valuing gold independent of fiat currencies
For Goldilocks :

Here, as promised, are the Dabchick Gold Index figures ( calculated from the London Bullion Market figures as supplied to the F.T. by N.M.Rothschild ) for the month of September so far:-

Date | Close | High | Low |

01 Sep | 69.08 | 69.22 | 68.72 |

02 Sep | 69.78 | 69.85 | 69.54 |

03 Sep | 69.70 | 69.89 | 68.27 |

04 Sep | 69.95 | 70.18 | 69.72 |

07 Sep | 70.07 | 70.22 | 69.86 |

08 Sep | 69.78 | 70.26 | 69.58 |

09 Sep | 70.10 | 70.19 | 69.68 |

10 Sep | 70.58 | 70.58 | 69.98 |

11 Sep | 70.51 | 71.31 | 70.25 |

( Basis : Jan 1982 = 100 )

These figures are intended to show changes in the True Value of Gold relative to its value in January 1982. Because these values are independent of debased fiat paper currencies, they are also independent of the inflation caused to all other prices by governments that indulge in currency debasement.

Note that the 5% rise in the Dollar price of gold ( from $279 to $293.5 ) so far this month is made up of a 2% rise in the True Value of Gold and a 3% fall in the value of the US dollar against all other currencies.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 10:08 - ID#431200)
Global recession nearing?
Saturday, September 12, 1998
Global recession nearing?
Washington Bureau Chief The Financial Post
Take a global currency crisis, toss in the possible impeachment of the U.S. president and the prospect of a worldwide recession no longer seems a stretch.
Economists are becoming increasingly worried that what had been anticipated as a gentle slowdown of the U.S. economy will turn out to be more severe  especially as Washington indicates it may ease its strong US$ policy because of the fallout over the fate of Bill Clinton.
"The first global recession since 1991 may now be well under way," said Morgan Stanley & Co. chief economist Stephen Roach.
Some of the early indicators of a rapid cooling of the U.S. economy came on Friday with a sharp decline in the wholesale price index, which fell 0.4% in August, far more than predicted.
"All in all, deflation is clearly prevalent in the wholesale index," said senior economist Cheryl Katz with Merrill Lynch & Co. in New York.
The wholesale index showed steep declines in automobile prices, down 1.7%; a 4.5% drop in computer prices; and a surprising 10% drop in crude oil prices, she said.
"Deflation  and not inflation  is the issue," she said, adding it is clear the U.S. is in a corporate "profit recession," something it may not recover from for at least two quarters.
"Falling commodity prices show deflationary pressures are intensifying," said Deutsche Bank Securities Inc. chief economist Ed Yardeni.
U.S. Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan has already signalled the time may soon be ripe for lower interest rates.
There are increasing calls from economists for other Group of Seven industrialized countries to follow suit to avoid a global recession.
"Concern over price inflation looked, and still looks, silly with recession and depression in Asia and the Pacific Rim, slowing growth in Latin America and Canada, also in the U.K., and huge erosions in asset values throughout much of the world," said economist Allen Sinai of New York-based Primark Decision Economics Inc.
Greenspan is scheduled to speak about the U.S. and global economies next week in the midst of a barrage of economic statistics, including the consumer price index, the Beige Book ( the Fed's report on economic conditions published eight times a year ) and trade balance.
Roach said global investors are close to "creating a state of self-fulfilling panic," and all G7 countries except Japan should move together to cut interest rates by 50 basis points.
G7 finance ministers meet Monday in London to discuss the Russian crisis and the global economy.
Even without a co-ordinated approach, Roach said he is convinced the Bank of Canada will soon reverse its recent rate increase of 100 basis points, should Greenspan move to cut U.S. rates, something he could do as soon as the Sept. 29 meeting of the Fed.
"We think the Bank of Canada would move to match any such action within nanoseconds," he said. "Given [Canada's cooling economy] and the risk of global recession in 1999, it would make sense for Canada to maintain a looser monetary policy than that of the U.S., rather than a tighter one.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 10:28 - ID#246441)

My stock shrink tells me that if Greenspan lowers rates that it will be a negative on the CRB..perhaps one last chance to buy 'cheap' gold?
Any comments??

(Sat Sep 12 1998 10:40 - ID#242325)
Bill Murphy reports that gold open interest fell just slightly on Thursday when POG jumped 6 bucks. This shows that new buyers are coming in as the shorts cover. VERY BULLISH if it continues.

LGB: Noticed that Loral stock took a dive the other day. What gives? Hope your 401k money is not at risk here.

Oldman: Your trading abilitiea are legenday. but sometimes I wonder if you are on Bill Clinton's payroll. You say you despise the man, but constantly say what a genius he is.

You implicitly assume the stock market will do whatever WJC and his associates want it to do. When they eant it up, it goes up; when they want it down it goes down. Doesn't the escalating global crisis have something to with it as well? Perhaps a lot more than the manipulations of Bill Clinton, Bob Rubin, and Alan Greenspan.

John Disney
(Sat Sep 12 1998 10:42 - ID#24135)
I think Ive got it ..
Brother Junior ..
I guess 1981 must have been a watershed year for
both of us..
Actually I've reconsidered .. PH in LA is SO PERSUASIVE
.. How about he stays in office .. but has to be

(Sat Sep 12 1998 10:45 - ID#45173)
As Gollum and others have pointed out, a debtor nation is actually better off in credit crisis than a creditor. Japan, seen as strong because they are a net creditor, is the most vulnerable nation of all in a world depression. They are rapidly falling into the kind of deflationary depression that the US experienced in the 1930s, when the US was a creditor and Europe and others defaulted on their debts.

The US is not in a position to default on its debts. The US has no option other than to reschedule debt and simultaneously pay debt back with inflated dollars. A sub-20% annual inflation starts to knock zeros off the US's $11,000,000 debt fast enough. Meanwhile, consumer debt is also getting paid off in inflated dollars that show up as inflated wages. A prudent policy is to permit a short period of contraction, say, two or three quarters to increase unemployment and reduce wage price pressures, then manage a moderately high rate of inflation to sustain zero or only slightly positive GDP growth. In this way, the impact of a sudden contraction of the money supply can be avoided and the debt cycle can begin again once debt levels fall enough, inflation is brought back into line, and we start again.

This presumes that the Fed does all the right things at all the right times, and that political instability that ordinarily follows on the heals of a world depression does not turn into something unseemly.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 10:49 - ID#431200)
Japan's Outlook Darkens

Japan's Outlook Darkens
Government Says Economic Fall Is Far Worse Than Expected

By Sandra Sugawara
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, September 12, 1998; Page D14

TOKYO, Sept. 11Japanese officials announced today that the world's second-largest economy is in the midst of its most prolonged contraction since officials began tracking such events, and that the decline is far worse than expected.

The announcement dashed for now any hopes that a reinvigorated Japan soon would help pull other Asian economies out of turmoil and help stabilize volatile financial markets around the globe, including those in the United States.

Even before the economic figures were announced, the Tokyo Stock Exchange's benchmark, the Nikkei 225 index, fell 749.05 points, its largest point drop this year, to close down 5.11 percent at 13,916.98. Other Asian markets fell as Japan and other nations, which are counting on exports to the United States to boost their economies, were gripped with anxiety over the possibility that President Clinton may resign or be impeached. South Korea's market plummeted 5.41 percent, and Hong Kong stocks were down 3.46 percent.

As the global turmoil has intensified in recent months, American policymakers have urged Japan to take dramatic actions to revive its economy. But the figures released today are clear evidence that Japan's efforts -- including tax cuts and public spending -- are not working.

In the April-June period, Japan's economic output, as measured by its gross domestic product, shrank by 0.8 percent from the previous quarter, which is an annualized rate of a decline of 3.3 percent. It was the first time the nation's economy had shrunk for three straight quarters since 1955, the year data collection began. The fall in GDP, the total value of goods and services produced in a nation, was far worse than earlier estimates.

The Economic Planning Agency, which released the figures, said both private and corporate spending fell. "The Japanese economy is walking along the edge of a deflationary spiral," said Taichi Sakaiya, the head of the EPA. The economy is in worse shape than previously predicted, he said, and it is difficult to predict when growth would resume.

"Given the serious decline in private-sector demand, it's very difficult for the economy to turn around," said Mamoru Yamazaki, senior economist at Paribas Capital Markets Ltd.

Even Japan's once-mighty manufacturing powerhouses are facing problems. Toshiba Corp. said today that the parent company would post losses of $38 million for the half-year ending Sept. 31, compared with the profit of $53 million it originally predicted.

Until recently, the United States has appeared relatively immune from Japan's woes. But with Japan's problems intensifying, the impact on American workers and companies is becoming more apparent. The recent decision by Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. to close its plant in Puyallup, Wash., will throw 340 people out of work. Mitsubishi Electric Corp. is planning to close a chip-making facility and Hitachi Ltd. plans to suspend operations at a U.S. chip-making plant, affecting a total of 880 U.S. workers. Furthermore, American exporters are seeing their expected sales in Japan evaporate. For instance, Ford's car sales here have dropped by 30 percent to 40 percent this year, a spokesman said.

For months, the ruling Liberal Democratic Party has been putting its hopes on more traditional fiscal cures -- tax cuts and public works spending. In addition, the central bank has lowered short-term interest rates to a nearly rock-bottom level.

With fiscal and monetary policy tools of apparently limited value, economists said Japan must turn to structural reforms. Most fundamentally, the financial system must stop using its resources to keep weak companies afloat and must put money in companies that can create jobs and wealth, some experts say.

But instead, Japanese authorities have tried to avoid this kind of restructuring, a move that could hurt the LDP's already-shaky power base. The LDP has said it would not let any of the major 19 banks collapse. In return for this government support, the banks are expected to provide financial lifelines to major construction companies, even those on the edge of bankruptcy.

This system has left banks with more than $600 billion in loans that are not being repaid, and little money for Japan's small and medium-size entrepreneurial companies.

Dynaware Corp., a computer-aided design company, more than doubled in size every year over the past 10 years. Nevertheless "it's difficult to get loans," said Hitoshi Sugawara, a director of the Osaka-based company. Dynaware's credit line was slashed last fall and again in April, forcing it to delay plans to commercialize new technologies.

Although the Japanese economy had stagnated for many years, the seriousness of the problems became more apparent in November when three major bankruptcies shook the financial system. After that, many Japanese policymakers agreed that changes were needed. In fact, Yasuhisa Shiozaki, one of a handful of younger LDP legislators pushing the party to change, said that when the government passed a $229 billion financial stabilization bill last winter the intention was to put the money only in banks that were willing to restructure and that could become competitive.

"But then lots of politicians in the LDP became preoccupied with the end of March crisis," said Shiozaki. March 31 is the end of the business year here, when companies close their books. It appeared many banks would show severe capital problems. Panicked over the impact of such disclosures, the LDP pumped money into all of the major banks and allowed them to make cosmetic changes to improve their balance sheets.

"At a recent LDP meeting, I argued that we must cut the line of lies now. We must be honest about the problem," said Shiozaki. But he acknowledged that the chances of that happening were "50-50."

Indeed the LDP has fought further disclosure, saying it would hurt the financial system. Instead it wants to pour massive amounts of capital into Long Term Credit Bank of Japan, an ailing major bank, and then merge it with another stronger bank. The Democratic Party, the major opposition group, said today that it opposes such a bailout without more financial disclosure. It suspects the bank is insolvent and should be liquidated.

Meanwhile, Japanese officials continue to eschew bold deregulation. Economists say deregulation of sectors such as energy and telecommunications would cuts costs for Japanese companies. An overhaul of Japan's confusing housing codes and tax regulations could trigger housing construction and ownership, which would help builders, furniture stores and appliance manufacturers, analysts say.

But economists acknowledge that deregulation also might cause a surge in bankruptcies. Deregulation of the retail industry hurt many mom and pop stores.
The government has tried to gradually open the economy up.
Special correspondent Akiko Kashiwagi contributed to this report.
 Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company

Voyeur Professor
(Sat Sep 12 1998 10:51 - ID#231102)
To JTF with appreciation.


Thank you for your very thoughtful response in your 9/11 @ 21:12. We are indeed describing different parts of the elephant as you say. Your "erratum" clarifies my confusion: "declining "low" rates are significantly different from low "real" rates.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 10:55 - ID#153110)
@Where Do Inflated Greenbacks Come From ?
If not from Debt ? Every credit on the books or in circulation on paper is somebody else's liability. There is no Santa Claus. Just Scrooges.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 11:07 - ID#348286)
@The Hatt 10:01
I agree that trying to time Gold now is VERY DANGEROUS.
I've been buying and selling Gold stocks in part of my portfolio and have done very well in the last few months in this bear market.
However on Wednesday I sold some positions thinking we were at a near term top, and got snookered on Thursday........
I bought back most of my positions late Friday and will try to
"Stay the Course" ( to borrow a term from Wall Street ) .
It is extremely precarious now to try and trade the waves - and there will be waves, in this market, and risk chasing your favourite Gold stocks all the way up the hill allong with all the rest of the lemmings.
If indeed we have finally hit bottom, then the most profitable stategy will be to "HANG ON FOR THE RIDE OF YOUR LIFE".

(Sat Sep 12 1998 11:10 - ID#431200)
All things considered, President Bill Clinton simply cannot govern the United States of America. And when a president cannot govern, this country and the world begin to fall apart.

There is a third path for Bill Clinton between impeachment and resignation. It's called the 25th Amendment.

The president can invoke the authority granted to him by the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, and vacate his office - temporarily.

Under the provisions of this important measure, a president who feels himself "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" can transfer its powers to the vice president. And he can reassert his claim to the office any time he sees fit.

Here's how it works, according to the key passage:

The President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.

In other words, he sends a letter to Sen. Strom Thurmond and Rep. Newt Gingrich that says: I can't be president right now, but I'm not quitting. I'm turning things over to Al Gore until I feel I can return to work.

All he has to do to get his job back is write Thurmond and Gingrich a second letter. Until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, the amendment reads, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

This has been done before. In 1985, on his way into an operating room, Ronald Reagan invoked the 25th Amendment and transferred his powers temporarily to then-Vice President George Bush.

Four years later, George Bush invoked it before he let the anesthesiologist have at him.

In President Clinton's case, he would almost certainly have to surrender his office for a longer period of time than it takes for anesthesia to wear off - probably until the House and Senate complete their inquiries into the Lewinsky matter.

It would be of great help to the country at this moment for someone else to manage it - even someone as dubious as Al Gore - because Clinton is making a hash of things.

Just think: The Dow dropped 250 points yesterday. An anti-American ideologue is about to take the reins of power in Russia. The secretary of state has admitted she changed American policy toward Iraq even as she publicly advocated the policy she had abandoned. North Korea, a communist state run by a paranoid schizophrenic, has twice tested missiles capable of carrying nuclear material over Japan. Asia's financial meltdown continues virtually unabated.

The president's inability to focus on any matter but his political survival is costing America and the world dearly. That's surely one of the things, now showing up in the polls, that have so terrified the president's fellow Democrats.

The president would do himself a world of good by going for the 25th Amendment solution.

It would be a strong, self-sacrificing and even noble act on President Clinton's part - at a time when it would help him immeasurably to show that he is capable of self-sacrifice and nobility.

Clinton would be admitting that his self-inflicted wounds have made it impossible for him to give his full attention to the presidency until Congress completes its investigation into his conduct.

That would demonstrate genuine contrition on the part of the president in a way that a million apologies could never do.

In addition, the president would be consciously and deliberately placing the country's interests above his own. For once, he wouldn't just be talking like a patriot. He would be acting like one.

And that would change the nature of the debate over his conduct on Capitol Hill.

Senators and representatives would have no choice in the immediate aftermath but to praise the president for his sense of duty and responsibility - and that praise would color and possibly overshadow their denunciations of his irresponsibility in the Monica Lewinsky matter.

It has always been Bill Clinton's contention that Al Gore was ready to step into his shoes at a moment's notice. That's what it means to choose a running mate who serves a heartbeat away from the most powerful elected office in the world.

Gore would have a tricky task to perform as acting president. He would, in effect, be auditioning in full view of the nation for the job he wants to be chosen for in the year 2000.

Yet he would have to understand that, according to the Constitution, it is entirely up to Clinton to decide when he can again assume the mantle of the presidency.

Remember: All Clinton has to do to become a fully active president again is write a letter to Gingrich and Thurmond, informing them that he is getting off the bench and back into the game.

A daring and unprecedented gambit? Sure it is. But this is an unprecedented situation. Bill Clinton can either make the best of it or die a thousand political deaths trying to avoid a sorry fate. The 25th Amendment solution is the best of it.

The Hatt
(Sat Sep 12 1998 11:10 - ID#294232)
Thoughts on ABX unwinding their hedge position!
With more and more Countries around the world moving towards protectionism policies you have to wonder if the Gold Mining Companies are starting to worry about their interests abroad. It is no secret that Nevada is Barricks main source of margin and therefore market cap! The potential of a one billion dollar gain combined with a tax writeoff tied to the closing of its high cost projects makes much sense. While the shareholders are awaiting the execution of a buyback program it is my opinion that Barrick is struggling with this decision. I understand the thoughts of many who choose to believe that this is just a rumour however I must point out that even Munk himself has articulated that it could be a possibility down the road. We all understand the economic crisis that the world is facing today and the theme of currency controls is beginning to flourish so one must ask himself what these could mean to a Company like Barrick!
The other question on the table that begs to be asked is could Barrick decide to institute its own protectionism policies by limiting its Gold Production to North America? Could it be that the emphasis will be put on low cost North American production versus ounces produced? If so, might Barrick be tempted to cash up and use these funds to take out some of its competitors who have low cost production in North America.It is my humble opinion that if this scenario plays out we will have some advance notice
of its intentions as Barrick will make its takeover moves ahead of closing out its hedge position. With many intermediates suffering from cash flow problems the time for a move such as this has never been better! Time will tell!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 11:33 - ID#286249)
President Rebukes Shalala at Cabinet
Clinton 'Let Her Have It,' Source Says

By Robert G. Kaiser
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, September 11, 1998; Page A34

At an emotional meeting with his Cabinet, President Clinton sharply
rebuked his secretary of health and human services yesterday, rejecting her suggestion that he considered his policies more important than providing moral leadership for the country, according to a participant in the meeting.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 11:46 - ID#286249)
Noose of criminal inquiry tightens around First Lady
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in Washington

HILLARY Clinton is more than just an injured spouse. She is also
the target of a wide-ranging criminal investigation by Kenneth Starr
that has yet to reach its final conclusions.

In a country run by the polls, this article is an exposition of the dilemma with which the ICO is confronted

Whitewater, Travelgate, Filegate lead not to WJC but rather HRC

(Sat Sep 12 1998 11:50 - ID#286230)
Congress gets Possible Impeachment charges
and gold goes up less than $3. Now that is the mystery.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 11:50 - ID#329186)
Sharefin( Y2k Martial Law) The britsish are more forethright ?
Just received intersting e-mail may be of interest to you do you have an e-mail address so I can foreward it on

(Sat Sep 12 1998 11:54 - ID#430221)
Dabchick's True Value of Gold Index
Many thanks for your good work Dabchick. For anyone not familiar with Dabchick's initial, and most interesting, post on a way to determine the true value of gold independantly of inflation and relative price of the dollar etc., this is worth looking at. The initial post was about a week ago - I forgot to take note of the day and time.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 11:57 - ID#412286)
The impeachment of Clinton is no biggy for gold. In fact it takes the markets attention off the growing real problems and is thus bullish for financials. If Clinton drags this out then maybe bearish. But it looks like the press and polls will go along with him. I think gold is rising as hedging is drying up as indicated by the low lease rates. If the rally continues then lease rates will later rise as borrowing occurs not to sell forward but to cover shorts. That will be when the rally is in full flight. Right now the lowness of the lease rates is extremely bullish.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:02 - ID#347172)
Future of crude oil
What will the hopeful coming of higher gold prices mean for crude oil? Do higher gold prices truly lead oil to higher ground? Can the economies of the world bear the burden of either being higher priced? Questions that are worth pondering.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:05 - ID#286230)
The rest of the world is not diverted by Clinton's problems or the US fascination with them. N Korea, Japan, Kosovo, Russia, Iraq, Cuba and blowing up drug factories and mud huts are not missed by the rest of the world. Still gold does not go up.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:17 - ID#263254)
Phil in LA, I agree. Forget about the silly sex thing. It's a wag the dog event.
This is a reposting from a kitcoite. I personally find it

FASCINATING. Granted, it isn't evidence per sey. It does

make one sit up and take notice, at the very least...

The following is a list of dead people connected with Bill Clinton:

James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.

Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

Vince Foster - Former White House counselor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock's Rose law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.

Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.

C. Victor Raiser II & Montgomery Raiser - Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton as a " Dear friend and trusted advisor".

Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in Virginia of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund-raising events.

Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

James Bunch - Died from a gunshot wound, ruled a suicide. It was reported that he had a "Black Book" of people containing names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

Kathy Ferguson - Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson died in May 1994 was found dead in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she was going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

Bill Shelton - Arkansas state Trooper and fiance of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiance, he was found dead in June 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the gravesite of his


Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton friend Dan Lassater died by jumping out a window of a tall building January 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

Florence Martin - Accountant sub-contractor for the CIA related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. Died of three gunshot wounds.

Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one-car accident.

Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparent suicide in the middle of his investigation.

Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with

Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June

22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to

Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. Was investigating Morgan Guarantee scandal.

Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.

Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce, who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's advisory council personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother.

Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, Death was no accident.

Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Clinton in the trunk of a car left in his repair shop. Died when his car hit a utility pole.

Stanley Huggins - Suicide. Investigated Madison Guarantee. His report was never released.

Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund-raiser, died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena, Arkansas airport drug operation. Controversial case where initial report of death was due to falling asleep on railroad track. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.


Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck July, 1988.

Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988

Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.

Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.

James Milan - Found decapitated. Coroner ruled death due to natural causes.

Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.

Richard Winters - Was a suspect in the Ives/Henry deaths. Was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.


Major William S. Barkley Jr.

Captain Scott J. Reynolds

Sgt. Brian Hanley

Sgt. Tim Sabel

Major General William Robertson

Col. William Densberger

Col. Robert Kelly

Spec. Gary Rhodes

Steve Willis

Robert Williams

Conway LeBleu

Todd McKeehan

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:18 - ID#218249)
Selby; It went up a lot more than 3$. It had been going up for 2 weeks
because it had that news factored in. Kind of buy the rumor sell the news so to speak. Gold is looking real good right now. Sentiment had reached a BOTTOM, without a doubt IMHO.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:23 - ID#286230)
Kapex--"Bottoms are best seen in hindsight"
I doubt the price had Starr's report factored in. Even the US media was stunned by the report.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:28 - ID#412286)
Last I looked gold has rallied 21 bucks and the xau is about 40% off its lows. A gradual beginning followed by acceleration as the perceptions of the fundamentals change is a normal pattern. Just look at other markets. Circumstances are changing in gold's favor and the important point is that the fundamentals in gold's favor are not reversible but will persist for sometime. The reverse is of course true for financials.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:28 - ID#421269)
A financial parable

After seven months of lying through his teeth our esteemed ruler has seen the light. This light has suddenly prevailed itself upon him from the very heavens above, and the masses gleefully resume their pattern of 30% gains with hardly a thought as to what brought us here. Enter stage two of this unfolding drama.

October 21, 1998

Today the Washington Post revealed that secret sources had provided documents that implicated Willam Jefferson Clixton in scandals involving National Security, and the transfer of classified materials
to the Chinese Government. Also, in these documents were detailed plans that would allow the president to remain in office through the use of executive orders. Because of the American people's love of profits in a manipulated stock market, these plans were implemented with ease.

October 22, 1998

Headline, Wasington Post finacial section- Today the Dow Jones industrial average soared 1200 pts. when president Bill Clixton made a speech on national television in which he stated, " I categorically deny these charges and with the help of God Almighty and the American people I will continue to do what I think is in their best interest."

Across the ocean and on another note:

On a dry starlit night in a desert somewhere in the middle east, a small group of turban clad men sit around a campfire. On this night the conversation is not one of a pleasant nature but rather of death and destruction. The words "Great Satan" and "evil" are carried on the wind for only their ears to hear. There is talk of the weakness that is now at its greatest in America in many, many starlit nights. One man, somewhat taller and thinner than the rest, clad in a royal blue turban, stands and shouts, "Death to this Great Satan!" Thus are born the last days of the city known as New York.

**This represents one of millions of possible scenarios, and in no way implies anything other than a fictional intent of the author.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:29 - ID#147201)
Help, Help and Help
In the last few days there was a post re GPS ( Global Positioning Satellite ) . If any body can refer me to the post or a URL for this I would appreciate it. Thanx, Charlie

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:39 - ID#390415)
Dear Clinton-bashers
As a long-time right-winger, I have finally become disenchanted and embarassed by much of what that crowd has to say. Bingo: Are you saying Bill Clinton was involved in all those murders, and Ken Starr missed it? Vince Foster was murdered, and Ken Starr missed it? Ken Starr spent big bucks, and everything he found is on the Internet - read it if you can stomach it. But stop all this blather - let's get real. The insane irrationality of the Clinton-haters is really starting to rile me - and I voted for Alan Keyes! I organized the picket of the local 7-11 to stop them from selling Penthouse! I am pro-life! I have nine children! I have been home-schooling since 1986! I am neck-deep in gold ( well, I was neck deep, but I have watched my pile shrink down to my knees, unfortunately ) . I love Ronald Reagan! I am a ditto-head! I have read all the inside dirt on the Clintons! I know, I know! I have probably read and prayed at least as much as you have! But I refuse to be identified any longer with the vindictive Pharisees of the anti-Clinton right. You people are a disgrace.

I say the man really is sorry. Hate me for that, fine.

Go gold.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:44 - ID#433422)


(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:48 - ID#269191)
He is very very sorry--that he got caught.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:48 - ID#218249)
Repost from Aug. 25th. Not all bottoms are seen in hindsight.

Date: Tue Aug 25 1998 23:10
kapex ( Buy Gold, and Sell Stocks!!! ) ID#218254:
Copyright  1998 kapex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
And ignore all the B.S. that ALL these bearish analysts ( on gold ) , and all those Bullish analysts ( on stocks ) are telling
Do you really think that the stock market is a buy at anything approaching these valuations? Don't you think that the
same kind of B.S. was being talked about in 1929 when valuations were Not Even this high?

What makes you think that there may be any validity to ANY of those Brokerage house analysts Full page add's telling
you that the Bear will still be in hibernation ITHO. These are the kinds of things that you should be paying ATTENTION
to, and realize that the Jig is up on the Stock Market.
And think about where we are in gold at this time. Most are more than happy to give you all these reasons ( valid or not
) why Gold is not to be bought at these levels. For cryin out loud, do you think they will turn bullish if it goes any lower?
NO, of course not only more will throw in the towel. I mean lower as in a minor new low, not a whole lot lower than we
are now. Even if it is 5 to 10 $ an ounce.
Once again, To buy Low and Sell High you Have to do just that. Don't be swayed by the Maddening crowd!

Return to Kitco Homepage

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:50 - ID#286230)
ROR -Gold is actually down about $550 if you go back far enough.
I was talking about the effect of Starr's report on gold's spot price---less than $3. It seems we have lost the thread of the argument so I'm going to break with Kitco traditon and go out for some saturday shopping rather than enter into another confabulation.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 12:50 - ID#421269)
@ Night Writer

And might pigs fly ?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:03 - ID#280214)
chas - the GPS site was posted by Sharefin Sep 10 1998 05:06
"This link has lots of links to GPS info.
Just received it today so haven't browsed as yet."

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:07 - ID#218249)
Nightwriter; Its about integrity, character, honesty. WJC does not posses these
qualities. In the report Monica said he has had Hundreds of affairs. Two Ark. state troppers said thats about all they did was get women for him. What about lying AGAIN to the grand jury just three weeks ago. What about exposing yourself to someone Paula Jones, or taking Kathleen Wiley's hand and putting it on his groin? You know in some states ( most probably ) they put gus like that in jail and label them perverts and WARN the neighbors about that kind of person when they get out. This pervert is disgusting and is a disgrace to this country, and yes, he is sorry. He is a sorry excuse for a human being. He is only sorry that he got caught. He is lying to us again!!!!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:14 - ID#290172)
P.J. O'Rourke's new book,"Eat the Rich: A Treatise on Economics", reviewed in FT Weekender

What happens when the Tinkerbell market ( whose value exists only so long as we believe in it ) falls out with the Goldilocks economy:

"When we own any financial instrument, what we basically own is an opinion. That opinion is a price. Think of the stock market as an endless Gallup poll."

"The free market is ugly and stupid, like going to the mall; the unfree market is just as ugly and just as stupid, except there's nothing in the mall and if you don't go there they shoot you."

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:17 - ID#287312)
Did all the interns wear kneepads ?
Another intern pops up.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:20 - ID#218249)
Suspicious; You beat me to it. I just noticed that myself.
Do you think he will be sorry about that one too?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:21 - ID#287312)
In my humble opinion........
Hillary and others will soon be indicted. Whitewater, filegate, travelgate. Hillary needs to be buying put options to pay her lawyers.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:23 - ID#218249)
Well, he did promise in 92 to have the most Ethical administration
ever. I guess by their standards, they are. huh?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:24 - ID#287312)
Sorry as gulley dirt Kapex
What really pees in my wheeties is for the clown to tell me 18 months of blowjobs aint sex.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:29 - ID#218249)
Silverbaron; The elliot wave does look like an a b c d e 4th wave, we did have 5 waves down
and now we are in a possible a-b-c wave 2 with a 3rd wave of a 3rd wave of a 3rd smack dab in front of us. This is still a possibility. Last week or so I said we may not know what count we are in until it has finished. This is still unclear.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:35 - ID#347457)
LGB, you continue to surprise me and I think that I slowly start to understand you and your positions. You really use all your ammunition when you go to express and defend your convictions. This brings a lot of animosity in some audience.

As I said many times before, we have the same view on many issues ( Clinton is one of them ) and than we view a few things very differently, however, that's what I like about this group. Diversity of opinions  clashes of ideas. This forces one to think and to make up his own mind not to follow the crowd like a sheep. My kind of people, people I want to have for fiends ;- )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:38 - ID#218249)
I truly hope they do have video on this bum.
That will be the final nail in the coffin. it would take a lot of integrity for him to do the right thing and resign, which is why he won't. Thats the kind of thing that you do for the good of the country. WJC only does whats good for WJC! Can't all of you clinton supporters see that?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:40 - ID#390415)
That's about a third, ain't it?
There are now 120,000 metric tons of gold in the world. About 40,000 tons are held by central banks.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:46 - ID#390415)
Scholarly but readable
If you are interested in the appropriate role of gold in international economics, this is an excellent article, a main point of which is, Central Banks do not need to own gold, all that is necessary is for gold to be recognized as the unit of accounting:

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:52 - ID#280214)
My 09:28 only had a few of Clinton's treasonous crimes
I forgot the demoralization and gutting of our military in more ways that one can go to sleep with. ( Well maybe go to sleep permanently ) .
One teeny example ( al la Starr ) - NCO's or Officers caught in just one affair with an junior enlisted woman under his command have been, are, and will be sent to remote punishment assignments if the affair was fairly quiet. If it became higher profile such that it caused a stir among the ranks - the NCO or Officer then the punishment is discharge - less than honorable depending on who was ticked off. If it became widely known outside within that service or, even worse, the civilian public then the NCO or Officer has been, is, and will be court martialed.
But the Commander in Chief gets away with it!

P.S. The crimes I previously listed were gleaned from "The Conservative Chronicle", "The Economist", "The Wall Street Journal","The National Review" and ( to a lesser extent ) various places on the Internet.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:54 - ID#222231)
Mike Sheller
Seeing that you are a purveyor of stellar prognostications, I thought you might be interested in the following. You will need RealAudio which can be downloaded at same URL as dates to be downloaded.

Latch onto 12/29/97 from 02:45 on and 8/21/98 from 03:10 on.

Sean David Morton has made some uncanny preditictions re: WJC, markets and gold. I would appreciate your comments. Be nice please.

Best regards,

Pete ( The Shadow )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 13:55 - ID#287312)
Folks, things with WJC and HRC are gona start gettin real nasty next week.
I think we will indeed see our big decline in equities next week also.
2600 more pages of Starr report comming soon to an internet spot near you.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:06 - ID#290172)
FT-Comment & Analysis
Weekender 9/12-9/13
"One of the features of the modern presidency is its intimacy. This is a feature Mr. Clinton himself has done much to foster. In the television era, presidents have ceased to be inaccessible figures placed on pedestals for public admiration. They have invited themselves into the nation's sitting rooms, and have openly discussed their personal lives as a way of furthering their popularity in increasingly non-ideological times.

No one has done this more effectively than Mr. Clinton. Whether assuring the people that he "feels your pain" or discussing his choice of underwear on MTV, Mr. Clinton has made the personal political and used it to his advantage. Furthermore, since he became president he has always known that his personal life and background was a matter of wide public knowledge and interest. He may not have liked it all that much, but he must have recognised the special burden that placed on him to behave with decorum in his private life.

All these matters may not be especially edifying but they are increasingly important in a modern democracy and the Lewinsky debate will make an important contribution to the debate about where transparency ends and privacy begins.

Does the world not have a right to expect something a little more responsible from its political and economic leader? Does not the whole spectacle cast serious doubt on the legitimacy and effectiveness of
American leadership in a dangerous world?"

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:10 - ID#187109)
negativity toward ;-)
I have noticed that MANY are calling for a slight 'DIP' in gold prices come early next week. That may be true......too far too fast.....and all that jazz. Well, I am here to offer some MORE 'seasonals' for all to read.
Pay attention OLDMAN! ;-^ )

If gold is to retrace a bit it may be only for a few days...until Wed/Thurs. ( but then again, if the bears get hold............uh oh ) .

Sept 17 or 18. BUY Feb Gold. 84.12% chance.....hmmm.
Sept 17 or 18. BUY Jan Plat. 81.5% ANOTHER hmmmmmm.
btw.....a few I didn't post last week......
Sept 10 or 11. BUY Dec Silver. 75%..... CHA-CHING!! $$$$ You like apples oldman?........those apples were almost PUUURFECT! :-! )
Sept 8 BUY Jan Crude light. 75% .... ( more ) CHA-CHING$! more apples....

Here is one.....SELL Dec Treas Bonds. MONDAY. 76.5% Check it out.

Just some more 'arrows' for me to slay the other side of this ZERO SUM GAME.

This, OF COURSE, is not a recomm. it is merely 'FOOD FOR THOUGHT' and one more way to 'skin the cat'.

3-2-5 11/11.

gogold. mow and garden.....I don't make enough to hire my own like brother JohnD ... ( grin ) .

good weekend all.....uh huh.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:10 - ID#213399)
To all Goldbugs and PM chartreadrs:

I have been a lurker on this forum for over a yr
now. I have also followed the POG and XAU for over
10 yrs. In all this time the PM's have been in a
bear market. The postings on this forum about
gold's recent rally to friday 9/11 still reflects
the GB's ingrained bear market mentality of the
past 15 yrs. I thought I observed significant
changes in gold's performance recently that ind-
cates a switch to a bull market long time rally.

In the past after rallying during the week gold
would retrace much of the previous gains on a
friday close, followed subsequently by drops in
the XAU. Chart readers were always depressingly

This last friday 9/11, gold held its previous gains even adding $3.00 on the close, the XAU
closed unchanged. The comming weeks should tell
the story. If gold and the XAU go on to further
significant gains this will confirm that gold has
bottomed is in a bull merket mode, and us GB's will have to adjust our to bull market readings
of moves in the PM's and the XAU.

This means GB's will have to become dipsters vis-
a-vis the PM's and the XAU, something they couldn't be during a bear market.

I am sure us GBs can make the adjustment, along
with the PM chartreaders !

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:14 - ID#432130)
Hello Everyone!
Im new here. Ive been viewing the posted messages for awhile and Ive found that the views and convictions I find here are very much my own views and convictions.

Ive been a goldbug since childhood, but Ive only been an investor for about a year. During that time I did my own research and found, in my opinion, that the Bear is coming ( He's here now! ) . In April I began an overhaul of my portfolio through which I was fortunate enough to complete my moves before "the feces hit the fan" the last couple of weeks. I got out of equities with a profit, and now I am fully "Bear Market Invested". I own gold bullion ( Eagles ) , gold stocks ( CAU & BGO ) , a gold fund ( EMGSX ) , a silver fund ( STSLX ) , and a "Bear Market" fund called "Prudent Bear" ( BEARX ) , for which I have high hopes on its growth potential. I should also point out that I am new at this, so be careful about taking my advice : )

Anyway, Im glad to be here and I hope Im welcome.

Got Gold?

: )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:14 - ID#290172)
NightWriter--ECB seems to disagree?

Eur-Lex 396R2223 Community Legisation in force-Legal act
Council Regulation ( EC ) No 2223/96 of 25 June 1996 on the European system of national and regional
accounts in the Community
Official journal NO. L 310 , 30/11/1996 P. 0001 - 0469 Amended by 398R0448 ( OJ L 058 27.02.98 p.1 )

TRANSACTIONS IN MONETARY GOLD and special drawing rights ( F.1 ) ,
transactions in currency and deposits ( F.2 ) ,
transactions in securities other than shares ( F.3 ) ,
transactions in loans ( F.4 ) ,
transactions in shares and other equity ( F.5 ) ,
transactions in insurance technical reserves ( F.6 )
and transactions in other accounts receivable/payable ( F.7 ) .

Posted a larger tranch of this a couple of days ago. They intend
to have gold in the kitty...Their gold. Their kitty. Global business
will be encouraged to be satisfied with gold as an accounting unit.
But THAT argument has a number of large, dangerous holes to capture the unwary... Interesting times, yes?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:17 - ID#187109)
could you repost that letter from WJC to Orange County paper? I don't remember when it was posTED and I don't wanna scroll. TIA.
He ( Bill ) alone is his own judge/jury/
away....from talking about this overtalked-about-talk-about prezzzie who likes 'em young and sweet ( and plump ) ...ohmy.

btw.....STRAD! How was the concert? Sorry I missed it again. Did any Bugs show up to glimpse 'OUR OWN' StradMaster in action? I hope so. Did RJ show up in his Armani Shorts silk shirt and cool NEW glasses. I bet his glasses looked cool anyway ( BIG wink ) .......

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:19 - ID#187109)
welcome Gregg...
AGULP to ya! and a PUFF!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:20 - ID#280214)
Serious Treason (sex & finance stuff isn't important enough
Selling out or National Defense - this from

"Rep. Henry Hyde ( R-IL ) , chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, has asked the Justice Department to investigate a possible link between contributions from donors and the dangerous loosening of export controls on sensitive technology to the People's Republic of China ( PRC ) . He pointed to: 1 ) the sale of nearly complete missile and strategic bomber factories to China despite the Defense Department's opposition; 2 ) the sale of 46 supercomputers over the past year-and-a-half, which he said "may have given the PRC more supercomputer capacity than the entire Department of Defense"; 3 ) the transfer of "hot-section" technology which will allow Red Chinese fighter and bomber aircraft to fly thousands of hours longer than those they currently manufacture."

And all the while making our enemies even more RABIDLY ANGRY at us!
It is like Clinton
tying *your* hands behind your back, then paying somebody to beat *you* up, AND kicking 'em in the shins and nuts just to make sure they are pissed enough to do a good job. Cut our heart out and hand it to our enemies on a silver platter. Sheesh - how more treasonous can you get.
They have hung or shot spies for less.

Standard disclaimer: I am NOT advocating the death of the President.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:21 - ID#432130)
Thanks EB :)
Its great to feel welcome : )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:29 - ID#373284)
gwyz_A, Namaste' and a gulp and a puff to ya...Welcome as the venerable EB stated
Go Gold...Get Camdesuss...Clintler is a dirtbag...

Gusto Oro
(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:30 - ID#377235)

Are you still long Sunshine Mines. Looking at the stock now...--AG

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:35 - ID#390275)
CJK, I think that we'll have to wait for Monday to find out what actually happened to Vista Gold. It closed at .28 but then went up to a dollar on the Pacific Exchange. The following are possibilities:

Most likely: There is some kind of error in posting the price.
Less Likely: Vista made some kind of big strike and somebody picked up some stock in a hurry.
Least Likely: Vista is being taken over by another company.
Unlikely: Someone is having a fine joke.

We'll see on Monday

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:36 - ID#237299)
SDRer (about your great postings from ECU)

I'm sure you also noticed this hair-raising little passage: ( my emphasis added ) :

"..Therefore, gold can normally be a financial asset only for the central bank or central government.
However, in some circumstances, other financial corporations may hold title to gold that can *ONLY* be sold with the specific consent of the monetary authorities. In such restricted circumstances, the concept of effective control can be applied to the gold holdings of financial corporations other than the central bank.."

Also this stange entry. In one portion of the clips you provided they explain that gold, as a most fundamental asset, does not have a counterpart entry in an accounting scheme- yet this little section makes it clear that they view gold as indeed double -entered; they get richer, and the account of the world gets poorer:

"..Purchases of monetary gold are recorded in the financial accounts of
the domestic monetary authorities as increases in financial assets. The counterpart entries are decreases in financial assets of the rest of the world.."

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:40 - ID#401460)

CNN Poll results were a surprise to me!

Only 30% said that they felt the report was to sexually explicit.

Me thinks the President has a problem.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:45 - ID#390275)
Gold and the Dollar
When the dollar weakens, and it will because dollars will flood the financial markets to help stimulate the world economies, then the price of gold will rise. Dollars are already flooding all markets. If we imitate the Japanese problem and our interest rates go down to 1/2% then gold will skyrocket.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:46 - ID#432130)
Here's what I think...
We are entering a Bear Market. It is being fueled by many of the same conditions as the '73-74 Bear Market, the most important one is the psychology component. Im not talking about unrealistic panic. Im talking about the fact that the market always does poorly during times of uncertainty. We have similar "uncertainties" as in the 70's. For example, uncertain world economic conditions and a weakened President who is and will be mired in scandal and legal problems ( impeachment ) .
The market result is going to be the same with one exception. Our economy is much too strong to stay trapped in a Bear market. So, rather than experiencing 8 grinding years of the Bear, we will pull out 6 months to a year from now.

So what does this mean for gold? It will rally well and gold funds will benifit big time. As for me, I am going to take those long awaited profits at the first sign of the Bull.

Got Gold?

: )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:46 - ID#433422)
Squirrel,"Standard disclaimer: I am NOT advocating the death of the President."
No Squirrel, of coarse not. I think he should strongly consider suicide.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:48 - ID#240241)
gwyz, hiya!
I've been in Gold stocks since March this year. Bought ECO, RYO, CAU,
BMG, PDG initally. Made 33% in the April rise. Then ( being so smart ) ,
LOL, sold it all & waited for a 2nd attempt to enter. Got back in in
late July with CDE, ECO, RYO, BMG, HM. Lost 50% before I knew what
happened. ( Am I smart or what? ) hehe. Thank goodness for the last 2
weeks. Almost back ( about 15% down ) from original investment. Currently
holding RYO, ECO & bought some BGO on Friday.

Anyone else out there want to reveal what they are holding?

Went & looked at what all the PM funds are holding & decided at least
for myself, wasn't interested.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:52 - ID#432130)
Hey Oak!
Everything you did was smart. Its difficult for the "right" moves to work when "They" ( Big Money and Government ) , mess around with what should happen.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:53 - ID#373284)
"Any excuse will serve a tyrant." Aesop

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:54 - ID#373284)
"Statistics are no substitute for judgment." Henry Clay

(Sat Sep 12 1998 14:56 - ID#286249)
Obsidian-Indeed yes! {:-))
It rather brings home the point that RealPower is not 'having' money, but rather having the call on defining WHAT is money, and HOW it may be used
Read an interesting article some weeks ago, which stressed that the most coveted post in European governments was no longer Foreign Minister but rather Finance Minister. bbml

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:00 - ID#373284)
"Real firmness is good for anything; strut is good for nothing."

Alexander Hamilton

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:06 - ID#263254)
PrivateInvestor and EJ..
"I concure I too have friends in Brazil, Chile, Mexico,Russia, the Ukraine...and they are all dazed and amazed that the Titanic is sinking and we are worried about arraingement of the deck chairs"

Now, don't you think that if the media were openly discussing the
true condition of the titanic instead of concentrating on the
ridiculous dramas of who's d!ck got caught in who's mouth, there
would be serious interest in the true state of global economic afairs?
Try turning on any one of several news channels right now to listen
and you will hear nothing but the constant blathering of sex-folly
and opinions about same.

Americans have not been given a fair playing field. Foreigners don't
understand the manipulation going on.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:09 - ID#350145)
well said!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:12 - ID#432130)
Emergency Storage Food...
I think the Y2k problem is going to cause food shortages. Can anyone tell me where I can get supplies? Thanks.

Got Gold?

: )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:13 - ID#29048)
Federalist Papers
A feeble Executive implies a feeble execution of the government. A feeble execution is but another phrase for a bad execution; and a government ill executed, whatever it may be in theory, must be, in practice, a bad government.


The Executive Department Further Considered
From the New York Packet.
Tuesday, March 18, 1788.

All of the Federalist Papers are on line @

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:14 - ID#190411)
I don't advocate regicide any more than the next guy. I think that we should hurl the whole establishment into a convenient volcano. If they are innocent, they will survive.
Seriously, the dimunition of the presidency, should be welcomed and encouraged by any freedom lover.
I don't revere the office, although there have been some fine men that have given the position far more respect than it deserves.
Screw pomp and circumstance, 1776 now. go spud go gold.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:15 - ID#240241)
I'd been lurking here for about 9 months before I posted for the 1st
time a couple of weeks ago. Definitly a lot of good info & smart people
here. I could do without the Clinton soap opera currently going on here,
Since I find it hard to believe anyone would base their trading decisions
on what happens to Clinton. ( buy if he got a BJ, sell if the cigar was a
cuban! ) . I"m sure I'll get a few replies on that one! Hehe. Anyway, I
base my buying decisions ( I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE REAL BRIGHT ) on what I can
cull from the information on the net & news media. I look at fundamentals ( others do, others don't ) , I look at technicals ( others do,
others don't ) , I try to see where the herd will stampede. Last time
the herd trampled on my back! *GRIN*.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:16 - ID#373284)
gwyz_A, Namaste' and a gulp and a puff to ya...
Here is a short me and I will provide far more info which is too much to list here ->

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:18 - ID#240241)
Here's one. I've been looking around also, just in case ( LOL ) .
I like the Delux Pack.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:20 - ID#350145)
silver stocks & comex reserves
silver stocks: hecla, coeur, sunshine, united keno, royal silver & sleeper huldra all seem to be stuck behind gold stocks and have great value. maybe gold and currencies have distracted us from seeing a good silver play. comex stocks seem to be going down every day. if comex stock go below 70 million oz, one would think that should stimulate the market.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:23 - ID#432130)
Thanks. I will email you. I gotta go now. Oak, be cool. See you guys later on.

: )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:24 - ID#373284)
Oak, Namaste' and a gulp and a puff to ya...Perma-Pac is excellent and the fella
that runs the web site you put up is honest...straight forward and has great suggestions if you wish to give him a ring... if you would like more info and I will respond as quickly as possible...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:24 - ID#190411)
You invoke Hamilton, the advocate of an overweening central gommint.
I'll cut him some slack, as he never envisioned the leviathan state that we have evolved to.
A good source for the Federalist Papers is the used paperback stores. They are usually in unread condition, -Forced puchases from the long gone school system's appreciation for the educated citizen.
The Federalist Papers are considered subversive nowadays.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:26 - ID#335379)
Hello Engineer and welcome to our board! or welcome aboard!
Therer are plenty of us Engineer types on this board, you'll be right at home.
I am not so sure that gold can't fake us out anymore but next week should be somewhat telling. If performance is not impressive it's more sideways as usual.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:27 - ID#290172)
Good heavens--Kitco linked by ESP! {:-))
Opening Statement to the House Judiciary Committee
Proceedings on Impeachment of Richard Nixon
Barbara Jordan

"Who can so properly be the inquisitors for the nation as the representatives of the nation themselves?" ( Federalist, no. 65 ) The subject of its jurisdiction are those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men." That is what we are talking about. In other words, the jurisdiction comes from the abuse of violation of some public trust. It is wrong, I suggest, it is a misreading of the Constitution for any member here to assert that for a member to vote for an article of impeachment means that that member must be convinced that the president should be removed from office. The Constitution doesn't say that. The powers relating to impeachment are an essential check in the hands of this body, the legislature, against and upon the encroachment of the executive. In establishing the division between the two branches of the legislature, the House and the Senate, assigning to the one the right to accuse and to the other the right to judge, the framers of this Constitution were very astute. They did not make the accusers and the judges the same person.

"We know the nature of impeachment. We have been talking about it awhile now. "It is chiefly designed for the president and his high ministers" to somehow be called into account. It is designed to "bridle" the executive if he engages in excesses.

"It is designed as a method of national inquest into the public men." ( Hamilton, Federalist, no. 65. )

Time to get down Hamilton's "Federalist Papers" from the shelf and do a little reading?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:36 - ID#29048)
Why buy a book when they are all on line and downloadable? : )

Hamilton, Jay and Madison are still required reading amongst us subversives.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:42 - ID#373284)
most of the work here is from the fin that shares with additions from other caring souls
here at is quite a mouseful but will help those of you seeking information and such on Y2K...and remember...keep asking questions as we are all in this together...Namaste'

Emergency Food Storage>
BECK ZAPPERS - Action Electronics
N U T R I - M A R T - Nutricology/Allergy RescgProds. - EXCELLENT
THIOCITIC ACID - Notes from Underground
Collodial Silver - MAKE YOUR OWN! HERE'S HOW!
Guide to Medicinal Herbs Online - FANTASTIC!!
PresentMoment - BULK HERBS & Natural Healing Site
PhytoPharmica - WOW! Super Suppliment List - Hard to find!
Alternative Medicine - Welcome from The Mining Co.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:45 - ID#373284)
Oh yeah...water...uh to have it...Namaste'

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:52 - ID#240241)
tolerant1 (Thanks!)
will save a lot of time looking. Haven't really believed ( or don't want
to believe ) it will get that bad, but can't hurt to know.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 15:54 - ID#252150)
ROR@Your take on leasing makes a lot of sense. I'll trust the charts to tell me
whether or not you're right.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:02 - ID#252150)
Credit, where credit is due@George Cole did'nt just call the latest POG bottom.
As anyone who has followed this thread for the last 1 1/2 yrs can attest, he's called at least 6 of them.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:06 - ID#252150)
Good news for BC@At least when he finally resigns in dishonor & humiliation
at least he'll have a golfing partner. OJ has invited him to play at his L.A. muny.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:10 - ID#275194)
Don't trust any of the major network polls! Go to AOL and look at
their poll. Thats a real poll.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:11 - ID#208393)
Canadian Mines - Stock Prices
The first two are in the black, the rest have a long ways to go.
STK |Percent| 6-Apr | 12-Sep
PRU | 9.83 | 11.70 |12.85
MNG | 6.78 | 5.90 | 6.30
PDG | -9.86 | 20.80 |18.75
ABX |-17.86 | 32.75 |26.90
GEO |-42.00 | 2.50 | 1.45
ORV |-45.95 | 1.85 | 1.00
RNG |-44.95 | 5.45 | 3.00
ABZ |-49.45 | 18.30 | 9.25
SUF |-50.37 | 13.60 | 6.75
GRE |-69.90 | 10.30 | 3.10

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:15 - ID#218252)
Why do the network polls differ so much from this AOL poll.
Kinda makes you wonder. I just coppied this poll a minute ago. It's a little different that the CNN ( Clinton News Network ) poll.
they represent the opinions of AOL members.
Should President Clinton: Be impeached?




Be censured?








Be allowed to serve his term?




Total votes:


Given the circumstances, do you think the President can do his job? Yes








Total votes:


Are you: Male








Total votes:


Are you: a Democrat




a Republican




Not affiliated with a major party




Total votes:



(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:17 - ID#373284)
kapex,Namaste' and a gulp and a puff to ya from the Island that is Long...where can
I find the page with that polling information from aol...thanx

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:19 - ID#335379)
HEllo Squirrel re your 05:21, trying to get the word out about impending doom....
Sounds very familiar... Noah was building his Ark of salvation for 100 years. While
putting up with derision from the neighbors, he was giving a sign that things would one day change. God is not slack in his judgement but holds it back that all might come to repentance. 100 years is along time! I also find myself trying to help people, sharing the truth about what goes around comes around, how there is not enough welfare money to cover all sins, like lazyness. Y2K and market warnings. And trying to show that following Christ is not evil but good, trying to show Him, instead of the lousy "church" history that he most certainly disaproves of. He does not like "religion" he desires Relationship. People in general seem to dislike the truth. But a few do listen. Just as when you notice some listening to the truth about our country and Y2K. Jesus said "Let him who has ears let him hear". And to him who acts on what truth he has learned, more truth will be given him. Such a deal! more truth, more insight! No wonder Proverbs tells that wisdom is much more desirable than riches. or gold.
Go gold, like the truth, shine brightly on the shenanigans of the paper miesters!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:20 - ID#218252)
tloerant1; Click right in the middle of the main page, for the starr
report. Then click on the AOL poll.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:29 - ID#373284)
kapex, Namaste' and a gulp and a puff to ya

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:29 - ID#218252)
Sorry TOLERANT1; Have you noticed that the other networks, ABC (Always Broadcasting Clinton)
CBS ( Clinton Broadcasting Station ) , and NBC ( Nothing But Clinton ) polls are the same.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:35 - ID#373284)
kapex, Namaste' I have noticed that all the cheerleaders are out in full force...what is
clear...if Clintler were in the military he would be toast...if he worked for a corporation he would be toast...this double standard is pure adulterated less...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:39 - ID#350145)
agree with engineer - gold looks real this time
been at this 16 years, been bloodied many times, done well a few times and made a bundle in 87 with pegasus warrants. this looks real to me. am long gold and silver stocks, but am also closely watching comex silver inventories & am leveraging that position just in case. am positioned with silver stocks which have to be at or near the bottom. mainly i do juniors, but hecla and coeur seem in good finanical health, so if i am wrong and we are fooled again the nice thing about being near the bottom is it is just a matter of time beofre it goes up. the big investors can't wait, but that is our advantage.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:40 - ID#37463)
Ken Starr the villain
I just walked past our neighbor house finding a big sign on the back of their car proclaiming that Ken Starr is a pervert. Talk about the messenger getting shot. These people, I used to think, were fairly intelligent. I'm watching this fiasco and I'm afraid that this prurient presidential prick is going to get off ( like he has over the past several months with Monica ) . We may have to leave judgement of him to He who tryeth the hearts. Go figure. Just ask yourselves what would ahve been the attitude had George Bush or Ronald Regan confessed to such actions. The old tar bucket and sack of feathers would have been brought out of ye old woodshed.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:46 - ID#401460)

I agree that the Sex stuff is a pain in the Butt to endure, I would have much rather that Star or someone else had nailed them for selling influence and military technology to foreign governments. I guess that is still possible.

Question, does this have any affect on the value of the US $ or Gold. Does this have any affect on world financial security, that all of the economic super powers are in trouble...I think so. ( effect?fect )

An Indiana Republican has admitted to an affair with an intern - Republicans want him to resign.

Clintons Scorched Earth Policy could potentially create a constitutional crises, he will not resign from the office. And the Clinton past indicates that they will do anything to stay in office.

As per your earlier Question, I bought into Gold and other hard assets over the last year. My portfolio kind of looks like a world XAU, and just as beat up. I have followed Mining shares for a long time, they will come back ....someday.

I have also compared now to 1973 & 74, Political crises and tight money era. Commodities are rising this past week, and the Republicans will cut taxes one of these days, stimulating the economy even more. Plus Greenspan is being pressured to cut rates.

Anyone who doesnt think all of the Clinton administrations problems are relevant to World Economics is blind to reality.

Others are saying, The Clinton Administration has been so good for the World economy, he is doing such a great job, with the IMF, and in Bosnia, Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan, Russia, Latin America, Asia, etc. And domestically, we live in a wonderful world, the Stock market is doing so well - I /they could care less about his lying, personal integrity, and the world opinion of the US leadership......Blah Blah Blah

What denial of the truth! Gold has moved from $272 to $295, a $23 gain in just a few days.

Why are people blaming others for Clintons problems? As in The past, He has brought this on himself. Enough of this placing blame on the Women, Justice Department, Congress, the Media and YES ......SEX. It is not about sex it is about the LAW that we all have to obey if we are to have a lasting society.

Wow, Clinton Again can't he keep his pants zipped or get a motel room.


**The DRUDGE REPORT has obtained a secret White House video that shows President Clinton sneaking into a private space just off the Oval Office [the same area Monica Lewinsky serviced Clinton] with A mystery woman... VIDEO AIRS


How Stupid is this President? And where is he leading the US? I maintain, IMHO, right down the toilet.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:46 - ID#37463)
Hillary's visit to the spiritualist
During a recent publicity outing, Hillary Clinton sneaked
off to visit a fortune teller of some local repute. In a dark and hazy
room, peering into a crystal ball, the mystic delivered grave
news. "There's no easy way to say this, so I'll just be
blunt: Prepare yourself to be a widow. Your husband will die a violent
and horrible death this year." Visibly shaken, Hillary stared at the woman's lined face, then at the single flickering candle, then down at her hands. She took a few deep breaths to compose herself. She simply had to know. She met the fortune teller's gaze, steadied her voice, and asked her question. "Will I be acquitted?"

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:47 - ID#280214)
Some months from now some Y2K doubter will say
"Show me some evidence, some source of info"
And tolerant1 will blow him or her away with a metre of urls measured vertically. It'll take two cups of coffee or tequila just to review the list - and taking a peak at a reasonable fraction will take a day or two.
Makes one appreciate the work of the fin who shares
and the rest of the internet sleuths who reside here.
( and reside they do - Kitcoholics don't have a life outside. )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:48 - ID#266105)

I've been watching the talking heads/pundits scramble for
the handle, great fun. What's most amusing are those astride
the horse it rode it on.

Mike Sheller
(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:55 - ID#347447)
purveyor am I? Have I yet Ken Starr to fear? And why shouldn't I be nice? I'm always nice. I listened to the Art Bell segments with the predictions of Sean Morton you referred me to. Really enjoyed it. The man seems very interesting - and prescient! Thanks. As for my comments, well, this whole psychic, astrological thing ( they're 2 different things - note that Morton had an astrologer run out 2 charts for him to interpret - so he must be both pyschic AND an astrologer. Me, I'm only an astrologer ) is a very deeeeeep subject, and it is difficult discussing it on any kind of casual level. May I refer you to my December 1997 Astrological Investor feature where the glorious Chad Meek, CEO of Clarity Resources, Inc ( Gold mining in Alaska, Nevada, Arizona, & oil in Wyoming ) and I offered a take on the upcoming astrological aspects to Clinton on January 22nd - which turned out to be the exact day the Monica Lewinsky scandal broke wide open. Just adjust the following URL so that "golden" reads "gold."
( Can't we all just get along???? )

Mike Sheller
(Sat Sep 12 1998 16:56 - ID#347447)
how about fungicide?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:03 - ID#348127)
Vista Gold

Sure VGZ may be just a blip, but that does not discount their news yesterday. If we get a solid rally to POG 350 I would expect this stock to hit 1 buck which would give us our 540% increase. Sooner or later it will rally with the rest.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:08 - ID#412286)
Low Lease Rates may indicate BEAR mkt Low.
The thing to do over the last year in the race to the bottom has been to sell or if you are a producer borrow and sell. This is what has caused what has been a persistent and miserqable performance reaching new depths of terribleness each time you think its over. Call it the reverse of bank stocks and financial stocks earlier this year and internet stocks in July. Just as the stk mkt bubble began to fail because of exhaustion so a gold bear ends with exhaustion. The low lease rates indicate NO DEMAND TO BORROW AND SELL as that strategy has now been exhausted. It is interesting that the down move in gold was leveraged just as financials have been on the upside. Lease rates will rise when we really get going and they need to cover. I belivev the lower lease rates would be bearish in a more bullish mode as they were in 1993-1996. In the current environment they insdicate forward selling exhaustion and thus are very bullish. This can only be the case at a bear mkt bottom where the forward selling has been persistent for a long time and has deeply depressed prices. In sum, one might surmise that the rise in price with low lease rates is a bear market bottom buy signal. The beauty of it is that it would not be normally recognized and thus provides the perfect and logical back drop for the beginning of an ascent.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:10 - ID#401460)
Crude Oil ( NYM ) ( Access )
Oct 14.65

US Dollar Index ( FINEX )
Dec 96.22

Gold ( CMX )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:18 - ID#190411)
Who's going to get hit next by the squirt commander?
With der Fuhrer cut off from all avenues of sexual gratification, what will he do when he contracts DSB ( deadly semen backup ) ?
Already Donna Shalala has said "no".
What is to becum us if he looses his missle?
Gold isotopes in your portfolio?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:19 - ID#401460)
"Less Stupid Growth" Ted Turner

He must be a Gore Fan. CNN is not fudging their poll...yet. 65+ % against Clinton.

``Further growth is a catastrophe. We're going to live in a `Road Warriors' ( future ) ,'' Turner said, referring to the Mel Gibson movie about a post apocalyptic wasteland.

He warned that unless human population is controlled, the world will face a future of global disease and starvation.

Supply and Demand, there are only so many, bushels of Grain, barrels of Oil, ounces of Gold.......and there are only so many Gold Mining Shares.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:19 - ID#286230)
ROR--Just got back from shopping. Bought 6 cans of tuna and more importantly given the C$-- 12 more cans of Florida orange juice---good for the whole winter now - OJ wise.

The Hatt
(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:20 - ID#294232)
Since we are talking about Junior Golds take a look at Claimstaker Resources!
Trades on the VSE at $.32... Have raised over $7,000,000.00 over the last four months via a company out of Japan. Have one mine going into production next month which should produce approximately 2000 ounces of gold per month. Have a second mine going into production early next year in California.. Will begin a drill program in Nevada in October! All this and they have already raised the necessary capital required for all of their projects! Do your own DD......

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:25 - ID#238422)
One thing that even Clinton's supporters must consider
if they are not totally stupid and care about interests of
the U.S. and their own ones...Clinton must resign, because
no serious foreign political leader will be feeling
comfortable enough to make any political deals with a top
U.S. offical, if this foreign leader knows that
Clinton may be gone any time. Some serious deals, mostly
in the area of national security, are verbal and based
on the word of the President. With the President in uncertain
position it is very difficult to make such deals...American
diplomacy is extemely unprofessional, and considering that
the President is also no trusted player any more, it will
create a lot of problems for the U.S.A. on the world arena...

Gusto Oro
(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:25 - ID#430260)
Apparently you're unaware that Tolerant1 is in cahoots with Brazilian coffee brokers to rally coffee prices after this week's huge plunge in the wake of the Market crash and pending currency devaluation there. --AG

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:31 - ID#286230)
Don't forget that all important foreign officials work in a parliamentary system and so they could also be gone at any given time.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:32 - ID#402148)
GoGold (HEPCAT) ......OLDMAN........GLENN
Can we get a confirm on AU liftoff? ..............over.

Yauger is calling for 330 gold THIS YEAR NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:32 - ID#402148)
GoGold (HEPCAT) ......OLDMAN........GLENN
Can we get a confirm on AU leftoff? ..............over.

Yauger is calling for 330 gold THIS YEAR NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:34 - ID#290172)
When they deal with peers, they appear to deal in gold...
Community legislation in force
Legal act [ - Member countries of the European Free Trade Association ( EFTA ) ] Extra-Community trade: EFTA agreements ]
272A0722 ( 03 )

"Agreement between the European Economic Community and the Swiss Confederation

Community Legislation in force Legal act [ 11.50.30 - Specific aid actions ] [ - Mediterranean countries ]

277A0915 ( 01 ) Additional Protocol to the Agreement establishing an association between the European Economic Community and the Republic of CYPRUS - Protocol concerning the definition of the concept of 'originating products` and methods of administrative cooperation


COMMENT: Are we establishing a PATTERN here, or what?


(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:38 - ID#350145)
hatt - claimstaker
thanks, i will check it out. lots of stuff like that is out there if you can find it. the really big one i missed was barrick warrants back in 1985. a $1,000 worth then held until to day would have made you a very rich person today ( could have paid for my kids college ) . long time to remember, but i think they were .20 or so and allowed you to buy a share at .55 for a couple of years. i think barrick was an old oil shell. rumor was that saudi money bought it and restructured it - i never confirmed that.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:38 - ID#159145)
The Hatt and Claimstaker
I have done a bit of study on the Golden Trend property held by Claimstaker. The property lies in one of the best regions in North America. It's on the same trend lines as Cortez and Pipline. I have heard rumor's that PDG just had some excellent results directly south on the same fault. Hope this is the case. This area has some of the cheapest producing mines in the world with the most prolific reserves. If you know anything more about this property please post and update me. Thanks.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:38 - ID#401460)
Look Out!

Meanwhile, Clinton also met with members of his national security team including Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, Defense Secretary William Cohen, National Security Adviser Sandy Berger and White House chief of staff Erskine Bowles. The meeting was described as an update on the Middle East, Iraq, Clinton's call to Yeltsin and other subjects.

Their history has shown, hey will do anything!


(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:39 - ID#224363)
A simple man's view from Canada
Well folks, I read the starr report yesterday afternoon.

To be quite honest, I laughed my head off and now everytime I see Bill on TV, I start to chuckle. The Cigar scene that I envision is particularly funny.

I think you need a new president. I don't think this is about anything other than a simple loss of face and lack of respect. Sex is sex and everyone is human but a leader is placed in office to provide leadership.

Bill Clinton is not providing leadership. Public Officials are supposed to be 'better' than the rest of us. That is why we entrust them with the leadership of our countries.

Bill Clinton has clearly not demonstrated the type of leadership that one would expect from Commander In Chief.

Don't impeach him. Demand that he resign.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:48 - ID#240241)
Starr report
Broke down & read it also. Funny as hell.
And because of this, markets move?

The Hatt
(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:54 - ID#294232)
Codeman/ You are right about Claimstakers Nevada property!
Firstly their claims are on the same fault system as Pipeline and Cortez!
Whats interesting is that they have very similar geology and that is an important aspect in this area. It is interesting to note that Claimstaker have done little work to date and now all of a sudden they have completed the purchase, they announce a major drill program. Could it be that they want to avoid any and all possibilities of legal land claims? They now have 100% title to the property! Its interesting that you have heard a rumour about placer dome as i know they and phelps dodge have been drilling near Claimstakers land. The stock moved up seven cents on friday perhaps word is starting to get out. Have been trying to buy more in the mid twenties perhaps i will have to step up.. Why do you suppose the Japanese are investing so heavily in this company? It appears that they want control.

The Hatt
(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:57 - ID#294232)
Mole/ Once you have reviewed Claimstaker please post your opinion!
They have a website: Thanks would be interested in your dd as it looks almost too good to be true! Especially in a rising gold market.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 17:58 - ID#286230)
There has been some movement recently by the US to join the rest of world and let the Cubans begin to live like humans again-- hope we don't know why.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 18:01 - ID#159145)
I have been following the Vse for years. I know two gold analyts that are really excited about the Nevada property. I was aware of the INVOLVEMENT of another party in the Gold Trend property but had no idea it was Japanese. To anyone's knowledge has any geophysical work been done on the property? I want to get seriously involved in a junior to compliment my holding in PDG and ABX.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 18:06 - ID#390415)
I'll stop having children maybe
If Big Ted ( working on his third marriage ) will kill two of his five children.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 18:09 - ID#412286)
Is THE TED returning, is his house built in Maine after his immigration from Cape Breton NS. Its been four or five months so about time for his vitriolic and acidic wit to return.

The Hatt
(Sat Sep 12 1998 18:10 - ID#294232)
Codeman/ Claimstaker tells me that they have defined drill targets!
One report suggests that the gold showings on the south of the property indicate that gold has leaked to the surface and that there is a possibility for an ore body that could underlie the entire south portion of the property.... This report is an independant study that recommends drilling the southern portion of the property. That is about all I know about Nevada. However i can tell you this, Any sniff of ore grade material will drive the stock price crazy as in this area the mines are large low cost producers! They are drilling in a proven producing gold camp and i like that! Its not moose pasture...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 18:11 - ID#238422)
You are wrong, brother Selby. First of all, not all of them.
Second, most of them are not "just about ready to go" like
this one, and on practice it happens very seldom with THEM.
By the way, if it happens, those who are gone are usually
RESIGN, because they have some class and honor...
Third, get serious, we are talking about the guy who is
supposed to be the most influencial and solid politician
in the world...controling a lot of nukes and money..
Fourth, you just proved you don't know nothing
about foreign politics...but you still my brother.

The Hatt
(Sat Sep 12 1998 18:14 - ID#294232)
Codeman//// The Japanese
Have been told by the IR person at Claimstaker that Jipangu have lots of cash and are using Claimstaker as a vehicle to develop an intermediate sized gold producer. The fellow was very nice seemed open and honest so perhaps you would like to call him. There number is 604-684-6677. Thanks for your response, I am now off to work.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 18:16 - ID#288295)
HopeFull @ Y.Auger
Where did you get the information that Yvan Auger is forecasting 330 gold this year?I just visited his site, and it has not been updated. Nothing there about $330.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 18:34 - ID#350145)
hatt - claimstaker
checked it out. it sure looks good to me ( will buy some monday ) one i have been following lately is canarc t.ccm .37 friday ( approx ) over 4 million tons .43 in the old polaris taku mine, open in several directions - plus a lot of other stuff ( surinam for one ) - good managment and the last 10 days or so a good move up on big volumn. seems like it is being accumulated, or it may just be a play on the in place gold reserves. located in the Juneau gold belt which is the 7th largest mineralized area in the world - i think. what i am really curious about though is if the reduction in comex silver is real. does anyone have any info?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 18:44 - ID#237299)
So is that the value of a SDR? Is it indeed fixed to gold? Or is this "unit of account" something else?

That ammount ( if I assume the comma is a decimal ) is remarkably close to the ammount of 3 gold francs. But just enough off that it doesn't jibe.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 18:45 - ID#290456)

OK - I see that Y. Auger's site is now updated. Thanks.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 18:58 - ID#386245)
US Open tennis
As this is a gold discussion group I will not mention that two Aussies will be playing in the final of the US Open.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:03 - ID#390415)
US Open
Gloating allowed in moderation, mate.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:05 - ID#263254)
Hate is too strong a word. I don't hate anyone. Thoughts of Klinton bring forth words like:




which have taken the place of words like:



moral fortitude

As I have stated before, I have no interest in the sex life of the

president. I will not read the 400 page Starr document, because

I feel it does not represent the full and complete list of

transgressions of our president. Never so blind are those that

have eyes to see.

( Just one of dozens and dozens )

And, as stated on CNBC the day the Starr investigation delivered them to congress, there are 3 reports, not 1. No, I do not know what the contents are. I can only speculate.

Mike Sheller
(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:13 - ID#347447)
The Hatt
Hello Good Brother. I severely resent the term "Moose Pasture" in referral to gold bearing property. My beloved Clarity Resources Inc, is in Moose Pasture territory ( Alaska ) with Placer gold values that make breaking rocks in the hot sun fighting the law ( and the law won ) . We have property in Nevada as well ( Silver & gold ) but are now beginning production in Alaska at roughly $10 per ton.

All we gotta do is move a lotta earth, baybeee. So don't diss de Moose pasture. ( ;- )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:16 - ID#222231)
Mike Sheller, thank you for reply.
Notice I said purveyor, not pervert ( Just kidding ) . Wow, I'm impressed. That's some pretty deep stuff. Is the angle of the dangle directly proportional to the heat of WJCs meat?

If Astrology is'nt mystical, what is? That's amazing that two separate parties came up with basically the same conclusions. It seems that your views are coming to fruition.

I'm going to scan my horrorscope more often, but knowing the real me, will do the opposite of what it recommends. That's why I'm always in deep sh*t.

Best regards,

Pete ( The Shadow )

PS: I asked you to be nice because I have so many lumps on my head from some Kitcoites that I have become paranoid.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:18 - ID#290172)
Obsidian--Nope. Think of the SDR as an envelope,
into which various 'n sundry fiats flop. It is a real favorite with the Wizard, as it is not EVEN PAPER--just digital. Loverly for real gamesmanship...

They were more or less forced to give gold has a 'stable' SDR value: one ounce AU = 35 SDR.

Did you think the Community's UofC was nicely plump?
0,88867088 GRAM OF FINE GOLD
Does that seem a bit rich 'rich'to you?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:18 - ID#190411)
I trust that you have not been sidesaddle on the fence, as some of the doomsters hereabout counsel.
The runup of midsize Canadian companies has been better than OK.
Two baggers abound.
I once asked you about the Aussie market, vis a vis the smashed juniors and exploration companies.
You have confided some of your trading strategies for the juniors. I cannot get much of anything here in the US about the cos. that you trade.

I went so far as to open an account with an Aussie stockjobber, but they put me off with their attitude toward the miners.
Have you ever looked at Pennygold software?
I truly believe that your trades will become easier and more forgiving
than they have in the past ten month

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:27 - ID#195260)
seeking opinions
I haven't read all the advice here on home defense/offense lately, but after giving it some thought, I've started looking into adding some muscle to the home defense department. My research has lead me to a shotgun made by Franchi called the Spas-12. I think it could serve as a fine home defense weapon and as an investment. If anyone has any opinions on this shotgun - I would like to hear them. My experience with guns is limited to shooting trap a few times. thanks.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:29 - ID#30126)
Ahhhhh to be a fly on the wall in the room
in the White House where Teddy Kennedy goes to talk to WJC... :- ) )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:34 - ID#30126)
Two thoughts come to mind. One is a semi-auto shotgun in 12 Ga. OR a pump gun in 12 Ga. A pump gun has a certain 'advantage' in that it's 'noisy' in a way that most recognize in a somewhat terrifying manner... There's a certain something about chambering a round...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:39 - ID#368244)
@ kuston
The Spas 12 is one bad weapon {good} but you better lift those weights, because fully loaded it is Quite heavy. Try 12 rounds of 00 buck on a wrecked car, it is awesome.

Mike Sheller
(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:42 - ID#347447)
I commiserrate with lumps on your head from Kitcoites. They are a lumpy crowd. I think the term "Lumpenproletariat" was coined at Kitco, but I'm not sure. As for the common ( better homes and... ) garden variety horoscope that appears in newspapers and magazines ( one size fits all ) , I would put little stock in most if I were you. A REAL honest to goodness horoscope is calculated ( these days by computer ) on very specific DAY, Location, and TIME of birth. It's a quite personal thing. Anything much less is a parlor game. Yet even some of those folks can astound too. It's a deeeeep world.

Thanks again for the Art Bell feature. I was able to update my Audio software too.

Mike Sheller
(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:44 - ID#347447)
AAAArrrgggghhhh...glub glub
I think the Demoncrats have all got together and they're gonna send Teddy Kennedy to take Bill Clinton for a ride.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:46 - ID#147201)
The Hatt, Codeman and Mole re CLN
I did a little DD back in the spring. I think they have some good stuff. I have accumulated a few emails from former employees ( field men ) and with the Jap purchase etc, I feel this is a good spec. Hope this helps, Charlie PS- now that it seems to be on the move, I may get some- don't run it up on me!!!

Mike Sheller
(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:48 - ID#347447)
Isure, Kuston
Oh...I see it's here we go again with "what's yer favorite weapon." Couldn't help overhearing about the 12 gauge shotgun. Yes. Very nice close in weapon and probably the best thing to defend your home long as you didn't have more than 2 Martinis and it isn't your kid coming home from a late date thru the window cause he lost his damn key.

Call me a stodgy conservative stick in the mud, but I still miss my M14.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:52 - ID#30126)
Mike Sheller
ROTFLOL :- ) ) :- ) )

I think I know where they're going for that ride too! Tourism falling off at Cape Cod this time of year........... :- ) )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:55 - ID#386245)
Not only doesn't he inhale...
...but he also doesn't...ahh...err...hang on, I can't post this until I know all of you a bit better.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 19:58 - ID#43349)
Speaking of shotguns....

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:01 - ID#30126)
Mike Sheller
I've always preferred rifles myself. On another topic, here is the XAU. One can argue that the bear case is still intact. I think, just my opinion ( that was disclaimer ) , that we are in a bottoming process. We broke the short term down trendline, but the longer term trendline is still intact. As with all things related to gold, this could change quickly. If we take out the long term down trendline, then we might have some possibilities here....

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:01 - ID#147201)
Mike Sheller re your 19:13
Anybody who argues with that post ain't no gold miner!!!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:05 - ID#147201)
The Hatt your 18:14
I have to agree

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:08 - ID#43349)
Or perhaps a walking stick...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:09 - ID#30126)
And then there's NEM...
Newmont Mining chart.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:11 - ID#267298)
A little biased perhaps
Can hardly believe it

On CNN during the past six hours I have glimpsed I would say
about 12 people interviewed "on the street" from different city's.

I kid you not, of those interviews that I caught, only ONE
person thought Clinton should be Impeached. Every other
person said he should neither resign nor be impeached.

Unbelievable..... A little biased reporting perhaps ?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:12 - ID#222231)
Mike Sheller
Mike, can you recommend any good software that gives accurate astrology readings? I'm beginning to believe in the validity of astrology. Of course, I also believe in the tooth fairy TGYAIOWICF. : ) )


Pete ( The Shadow )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:16 - ID#147201)
Anybody re NEM
I have to agree with Jeil re this outfit. They came down here about 20 years ago and left. I came behind them and found 8000 acres averaging about 3 grams/ton. I have never had any faith in their ability to find gold, just follow the crowd. They are just like most investors, pick something and hope it turns out.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:20 - ID#348129)
@Hmmmmmm... Has WJC tried this yet ? Better go check the Star Report .........
Man charged in after sex with cows
5:20 p.m. ET ( 2121 GMT ) September 11, 1998

STOCKHOLM A 50-year-old man from western Sweden has been charged with cruelty to animals after having sex with two cows, Swedish news agency TT said Friday.

The man from Alingsas near Gothenburg, who has admitted the crimes, became excited after watching a pornographic film and set off for a nearby farm armed with a vibrator and other sex aids, as well as a camera, to abuse the cows.

A few weeks later he returned for a second visit, TT said, quoting the local Alingsas Tidningen newspaper.

But when he tried to get his films of the cows developed, the local photo company alerted the police, who arrested the man and seized his sex aids.

The county vet has examined the photographs of the cows and determined the animals suffered both physical and psychological damage, TT said.

Mike Sheller
(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:22 - ID#347447)
I use an old "Blue Star" program on my PC from MATRIX SOFTWARE. They make some good astrological software for PC and Mac. I use a Mac for most things, so I really should update for that computer, but you could check out Matrix on the Web and see what they have that makes sense for you. Reading corporate 'scopes is a bit different than reading human charts, and in any case if you're really serious about astrology, you'd best study it to get the most out of the software and accurate horoscopes. Interpretation is VERY important in astrology. Don't forget - it's an ART based on science. The "art" part means a lot of symbolism has to be learned and absorbed, and applied. Good luck tho.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:24 - ID#348129)
@Slow night for GOLD news ........
UFO sighting captured on videotape?
5:19 p.m. ET ( 2121 GMT ) September 11, 1998

PARIS France's National Center for Space Studies ( CNES ) said Friday it was investigating a reported sighting of an unidentified flying object in the Alpine village of Voreppe after a witness videotaped the phenomenon.

The videotape shows "a dark form that looks like it is floating and then moves away in a curious way,'' CNES expert Jean-Jacques Velasco told Reuters after viewing the videotape and conducting initial interviews with witnesses.

He said four individuals in three different groups had reported seeing the object over a period of several minutes.

They said they initially sighted it perched on the top of a tree at dusk on September 8.

Two of the individuals were quite near the tree while a third, about 50 meters ( yards ) away, had the presence of mind to quickly run into his house, grab a video camera, and film the mysterious object as it flew off, he said.

Based on the videotape and preliminary witness accounts, Velasco said the object appeared to be "a round disc, four to five meters across, with a few protuberances coming out of it and a red ring around its base.''

The space center said in a statement it was beginning its investigation by attempting to verify that the tape was genuine.

It was also trying to check out the witnesses and examine the tree where the object was said to have perched, whose leaves would be tested for signs of elevated levels of electromagnetic radiation.

Asked how many UFO probes opened by the CNES had been closed without an explanation, he responded, "You could count them on the fingers of one hand.''

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:24 - ID#30126)
Instead of the 'Twinki' defense they'll call it the 'Clinton' defense. :- ) )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:26 - ID#30126)
Dollar Index.
Could the dollar be in a little bit of trouble here???

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:29 - ID#290281)
James Stack
The Asian crisis moves out of the limelight - behind Russia and Clinton. In reality, all these events have little to do with the unwinding on Wall Street. They're simply the trigger for bringing investor "New Era" expectations down closer to reality... and those expectations have a lot further to go. Note that the Russell 2000 Index ( containing 2000 of the largest 3000 companies ) has now given up 60% ( almost 2/3's ) of ALL the gains of the past 4-1/2 years. The carnage is far deeper than pictured by the DJIA.

We are now IN that critical period in which a crash scenario is possible. In both 1929 and 1987, the crashes hit between 50-60 days after the market peak... we're now at 55 days. Those crashes also hit after the DJIA suffered a 13-to-17% loss... we're right at the extreme end of that range. So from both a time and price standpoint, watch the next few weeks closely, and the break under DJIA 7500 ( whenever it DOES come ) will be the most vulnerable point for panic.

That said, we should point out that Friday did mark the 3rd successful bounce off the 7500-7600 level. At least on the surface, that SUGGESTS the first leg of this bear market is over and odds favor volatile sideways gyrations for the next month or two. It does NOT mean the bear market is over.

Meanwhile, the fundamental news ( particularly in earnings ) is likely to get a lot worse.

The rebound in gold and gold stocks has been spectacular. The bottom in gold APPEARS to be in place. Don't be surprised if Russia announces establishment of a pseudo-gold standard to save the ruble over the coming month.

Bond models all remain bullish; but we're growing more nervous. If gold ( and commodities ) continue rebounding, then the bond rally is about over.

Remain patient and disciplined. If the first leg of the bear market is over, then rallies will appear even more tempting and volatile. Focus on the weight of the technical evidence... and THAT is still pointing down.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:29 - ID#30126)
Now this is worth some thought...
Unlike the 'other' news story, contemplate this little chart and its implications. The market really, really, really wants a rate cut...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:33 - ID#348129)
@BREAKING: New video to be aired of WJC and mystery woman sneaking off to WJC's favourite spot

**World Exclusive**
**Must Credit DRUDGE REPORT**
SAT SEP 12 1998 16:46:56 ET

The DRUDGE REPORT has uncovered a shocking White House video that shows President Clinton sneaking into a private space just off the Oval Office -- the same space Monica Lewinsky serviced Clinton -- with a young mystery woman!

The tape runs slightly more than 10 minutes and was obtained by the DRUDGE REPORT in Washington late Friday on condition that its origin and owner not be disclosed.

The tape became the obsession of elite Washington on the eve of prosecutor Ken Starr's referral to Congress.

Its audio and video quality is excellent. The video will air Saturday and Sunday night exclusively on FOX NEWS CHANNEL'S DRUDGE [9:00 PM ET/6:00 PM PT].

The identity of the young woman captured on video in the Oval Office will not be revealed in this report.

It is not clear if the young woman was a regular White House intern, a volunteer, or a daughter of a White House staffer.

At one point on the tape, the young woman is seen tenderly toweling off the forehead of the president, in the Oval Office, after she and others accompanied Clinton on a jog.

After a photo-op with the group of joggers in the Oval Office, the president and the mystery woman are shown leaving via the private hallway near the Oval Office study.

In the shocking new White House video -- Clinton is seen propping the door open between the private hallway and the Oval Office before he invites the young woman to join him.

Monica Lewinsky testified to a grand jury that fear of discovery in the White House kept Clinton on edge.

Starr's report reads: "The president ordinarily kept the door between the private hallway and the Oval Office several inches ajar during their encounters, both so that he could hear if anyone approached and so that anyone who did approach would be less likely to suspect impropriety."

The final frames of the video show President Clinton asking an adviser what time his next meeting was scheduled for -- he's told 9:00 AM -- he then enters the private hallway with the young woman.

The private hall off the Oval office has been the subject of intense scrutiny for investigators. Grand Jury witness Kathleen Willey has testified how Clinton groped her in the hallway.

Starr's report on Monica Lewinsky reads: "One the first occasion, the president took Ms. Lewinsky back into the Oval Office study, and they kissed. One the second, she performed oral sex on the president in the hallway outside the Oval Office study."

There was no way to know what occurred between the mystery woman and the president after the video ends.

The White House refuses to comment on any DRUDGE REPORT.

Filed by Matt Drudge

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:35 - ID#261304)
Hey Shadowfax

If Greenspan lowers rates on the 29th.... what is the effect on the CRB?? Possibly our last chance to buy 'cheap' GOLD ??

Mike Sheller
(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:36 - ID#347447)
Nice charts. I would say that the Dollar chart comes in for support at 93 - at least for a while. The momentum study on the XAU suggests the lower low does not have the conviction of the prior low, and momentum will rise significantly from here. Going up!?!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:37 - ID#30126)
Inflate and stocks take a hit, eventually. Deflate and stocks take a hit. Jeez, I can't make up my mind. :- ) )

Inflate and gold goes up, deflate and AG wins the war on inflation, kills bad gold, and we have ourselves a nice little revolution? Decisions, decisions.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:41 - ID#368244)
@ Mike Sheller

You bring up an excellent point. Todays weapons and modern rounds find little problem with interior walls. Family and neighbors are at risk even if you hit what you are aiming at. Extreme caution is advised !

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:46 - ID#30126)
Mike Sheller
Maybe a pull back here for the gold stocks. There is still no 'mass' buying yet. Perhaps I should say that not enough shares have been mopped up yet. In other words, very fickle trading ahead. Let's see what happens at XAU 82~83. That may tell a tale... Now, what does the HUI hold?

Mike Sheller
(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:46 - ID#347447)
Home defense
As I recall, the way we used to do it was with several rows of concertina wire on the front lawn, a few Claymore mines ( "front toward enemy," of course ) overlapping fields of fire on 2 ( 3 if possible ) M60 7.62mm Machine Gun emplacements ( don't forget those extra barrels - you'll need them if the neighbors invite friends and get particularly frisky...and DON'T forget the potholders from the kitchen when you CHANGE the barrels ) . You also want some sandbags at the door, several on each windowsill, and when just a couple of us were alone in just a tent at the Cambodian border, we'd put a few hand grenades along the aisle between the cots going toward the back flap. I'd do the same in the house, just in case you gotta beat back toward the back door...this way you can hold 'em off with a few tossed or rolled 'nades as you make your final exit into the back yard. Just make sure there's a big hole in the fence you can find in the dark. Then call in your coordinates to Div Arty, and they can blow your house to smithereens with mean your neighbors in it. Sorry...almost flashed back there a minit.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:50 - ID#222231)
Mike Sheller, Thanx again
Any dabbling I do will be with a 1000k of salt.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:51 - ID#237256)
Latest AOL poll results.
they represent the opinions of AOL members.
Should President Clinton: Be impeached?


Be censured?




Be allowed to serve his term?


Total votes:


Given the circumstances, do you think the President can do his job? Yes




Total votes:


Are you: Male




Total votes:


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Total votes:



(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:51 - ID#261304)

Made a great move when gold was 278.00 ..NEM was 14.00 ..the 13.00 point move in dec. gold NEM PAST 20.00 ..6 POINTS!! 2 DAYS.. GREAT STOCK...when gold WAS 375.00 NEM WAS $60.00 !!!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:52 - ID#280214)
Gusto Oro - after reading tolerant1's urls on Y2K, etc.
Most may can the coffee and break out the spirits.
Or maybe mix the two. Irish Cream and Coffee in honor of my town's
St. Patrick's Day Practice Parade this Saturday the 19th. We have all the bands, dancers, etc. now because it is usually to dang cold and snowy on the real St. Patricks day on March 17th.
May we find that Pot of Gold at the end of the Rainbow.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:54 - ID#424394)
Gusto Oro and Mooney - check out

(Sat Sep 12 1998 20:55 - ID#222231)
Drudge on Fox is about to show a video.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 21:06 - ID#242303)
It is obvious that many on this forum do not agree with Klinton's politics..fair enough..nor do I..B

Impeach for lying about having an affair!!
Call it 'Perjury before a Grand jury" if it makes it sound more like traeson.

Did 'ol Reagan get impeached for lying to Congress about Iran Contra.

NO he 'just could not recall'. What's worse lying about sex or about a covert war that congress had prohibited.

Did Bush get in trouble for the CIA dealing with drug dealers who were destroying the fabric of USA while it was under his tenure. Or for the rightist militia armed by the US who massacarred catholic priests. NO

Back off Clinton. Under his tenure the economy has done well, CRIME has come down, and very few US soldeirs died overseas. He is a sex maniac. Women are attracted to powerful men. I'm sure JFK did some kinky things during his time.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 21:08 - ID#30126)
Could be a shooting star. This is a fickle market. We shall watch together. Yes?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 21:11 - ID#43349)
Why the Fed wont lower rates

(Sat Sep 12 1998 21:16 - ID#30126)
The President, any President, has little to do with the economy at large in the short run. Give Clinton credit for what he tried to do and, thankfully, failed. Such as the socializing of medicine. Unfortunate successes include raising tax rates, discrimination against whites, and his war against civil liberties to name a few. Let's not talk about the FBI files and who's been on the receiving end of that knowledge?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 21:25 - ID#261304)

Thanks for the informative post on the interest rates..but it said 50-50. my question is IF Greenspan lowers the rate on the 29th ,what is the effect on the CRB??

(Sat Sep 12 1998 21:26 - ID#93241)
The economy doing well? It seems to me it's been artificially stimulated for quite some time. Kinda like being on drugs...a couple of lines, pop a pill and, hey, it feels great. An overvalued equities market, subsidized by retirement plans, is not wellness.
I agree with you about Reagan and Iran/Contra. I had a buddy who was living in Costa Rica in the early 80's and he told me almost every American was CIA or DEA. He lived across the road from a 10000 acre ranch north of San Jose that had 6 airstrips. Planes day & night. Apparently he made friends with some of the ranchers and said it was kinda nice...American TV ( satellite ) and Bolivian by-products. I'm sure a few of those planes were flying in & out of Mena.
Strange times we live in...

(Sat Sep 12 1998 21:29 - ID#347457)
@Wizened (It is obvious that many on this forum do not agree with Klinton's politics.)

Sorry Wizned, you have to look at the whole picture. If Clinton stays in the office ( and it is possible ) we will have two years of totally incapable president. He will be week, not able to deal with the Hill or with any foreign powers. This will weaken not only the presidency, but also the whole country. If he were able to think of anything else but himself, he would step aside. If he does not, all those things you praise him for ( and in many issues he's just got a free ride due to fortunate timing when he got elected in an upswing economic cycle ) , will go down the drain.

My prediction, if he stays, the whole country will pay.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 21:29 - ID#263254)
A question to all seasoned long term gold followers.
Please tell me, when, at any time has the price of gold ever
gone below mining production costs and remained so for a long time,
that is, several months ) ?????

Thanks in advance for your input.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 21:34 - ID#401460)

Yes we think Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Kennedy, and Clinton committed worse crimes. And in some cases we now know they did; But, Clinton none of the others was dumb enough to get caught lying about taking advantage of a young female intern in the Oval Office.

What about Paula Jones and her rights to justice? Just because you like the guy, is he above the law that the rest of us have to obey?


(Sat Sep 12 1998 21:34 - ID#29048)
You are disingenuous about your partisanship. There are so many factual errors in your post that I suspect you are just rolling a rhetorical grenade in here on a Saturday night to stir things up. For the record, during Bill Clinton's "tenure", more than 50 people were burned to death in Waco after a seige wherein they were attacked by multiple govt agencies, and don't forget the Weaver family which was attacked at home with tragic loss of life. Special forces troops were killed in Somalia for lack of armor support, their bodies drug through the streets, and the only consequence was that the secretary of defense resigned in disgrace. The Clinton administration has gilled and gutted the military, turning them into an international version of meals on wheels. It's obvious what's happened to the intelligence agencies, now that Clinton is blowing up pharmaceutical plants in third world countries.

Bill Clinton lied to a Federal Grand Jury. That is a felony. He suborned perjury, also a felony. Anybody else would be in jail right now. He has a pattern of behavior which makes him unfit for any office, much less the highest office.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 21:50 - ID#370236)
Home Defense - The trouble with Claymore's in the front yard
is they keep blowin' up the guard dogs.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 21:52 - ID#401460)

If interest rates are lowered, CRB should go up.
More construction and use of raw materials and the like.

The problem, however, is also becoming one of liquidity, availablity of US $ and are there still qualified borrowers out there?

The question is, Will US Bonds have a lower rate and if they do,who will buy US Bonds. If the Bond rates do not come down, CRB may not rise, mortgage rates are controlled by 10 and 30 year Bonds. AG & Rubin have a real problem.

Gold should go up.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:06 - ID#201109)
very nice charts my friend, we are very close to the cycle's end.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:06 - ID#261304)
Thanks HighRise

Appreciate your response..Seems to me this rate is key to where foreign money goes...perhaps the first indicator for a pullback ..then the backlash... $375.00 gold??

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:08 - ID#93241)
Just for the record, the Waco seige began while Bush was president. Ruby Ridge ( Randy Weaver ) took place while Bush was president. And Somolia was Bush's idea. None of this is offered in defense of WJC...just the facts.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:09 - ID#267298)
Good sense of humour

You Joker You

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:10 - ID#260389)
@All about Clinton
Lets bury all the horse manure about the stature of the office of the President of The United States. He is a paid public official. No different in a sense than a dog catcher or a garbage collecter. True, he wasn't appointed, but was elected but that only makes it simpler. If a man is appointed to an office and fails to live up to expectations you fire him. If a man is elected and fails to live up to expectations you should be able to fire him just the same as if you had hired him. He is still on the public payroll. Forget all that. Go back to basics. Many years ago, when as a young man, I got married my father gave me some good advice about raising children. NEVER REWARD BAD BEHAVIOUR. If your child is beating on the refrigerator with a hammer don't give him a Snickers bar to make him stop. MAKE HIM STOP. Bill Clinton has been rewarded for bad behaviour all his life. He was rewarded for acting like an idiot as a child, in high school, in college and all of his political career. Each step of the way he was given a Snickers bar as reward for his bad behaviour. Now he is 50 some odd years old and for the first time in his life someone is trying to bring him to task for his bad behaviour. Cut him off. Let him know he is not something special. Stop giving him Snickers bars for beating on the refrigerator with a hammer. MAKE HIM STOP. Be daring and adventuresome. PUNISH BAD BEHAVIOUR. It's not a bad idea and might just send a message to future occupants of the White House.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:12 - ID#401460)

Yes, will the $ stop going into bonds?
Or will $ continue the move to Gold?
Will th US $ continue to Drop?
The Security The US and its Presidency represent affect all of this.

The World could now face economic anarchy.


(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:14 - ID#370236)
To all here who would still support Bill Clinton as President
I believe there is a core group here that hold gold and silver because
it represents individual liberties and freedom from big government, ideals which go back to those who first set foot on Plymouth Rock.
I consider myself conservative, God fearing, and one of them.

WJC & his cronies represent to me much of what has turned the US away
from the sound & simple principles on which it was founded. It is
a waste of time for anyone to try to defend him here.

God is dead. -Nietzsche
Nietzsche is dead. -God

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:16 - ID#30126)
I don't know if the CRB will rise or not based on interest rate reductions, but gold, silver and oil may rise as a result and thus push the CRB up. On the other hand, if other commodities fall due to lack of demand then the CRB may go flat or fall. The key for the metals and oil is the dollar. Clinton's follies are not helping the dollar, but he may become a goldbugs 'bedfellow'. Oh my! What a thought, the riviled saving a goldbugs portfolio...... These are indeed interesting times........

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:16 - ID#43349)
Lower rates means cheaper money which means higher prices.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:23 - ID#30126)
Now all we have to do is ride out some of the bumps that sure to come before the few cogent ones come to gold. Then the rally will be in ernest. After that, we will have to suffer the public buying in... :- )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:24 - ID#412172)
Panda, in the WDIK realm, ...
High wave candles after long white candles at the tops do not bode well on the gold charts.
I suspect a retracement is in the offing. HOWEVER, I also suspect there is further strength to the gold price, and we will see higher lows. Now the message is out, that gold stocks are good for nice quick profits, 30-40+%; this will attract speculators, besides shorts, for a change. If the performance of POG keeps improving, speculators will attract investors and scared money. A lot depends on equity market actions but at least the there seems to be a correlation to stock prices down, gold up and a potential decimation of the yen carry trade and gold shorting. For certain, the next six months will be more interesting to gold buffs than the last 18.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:30 - ID#261304)

Always been neutral on 'Big Bill' ( So says Monica ) Now one wonders about his and Greenspan decisions ...where they makin Bill look good??
Greenspan was appointed by Regan,then reappointed by Bush and then 'Big Bill'.. as chairman of the fed..he is loyal to the president least to this point..
good nite all....

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:33 - ID#252150)
Clinton will resign within 3 weeks. He will leave the Presidency a shattered man,
in ignomony, shunned & deserted by his former, powerful friends, wife & daughter. Even his half brother will abandon him. He will sink into a deep depression, become suicidal & for several months will be under care in a psychiatric ward. Somehow, by next spring he will start to recover his will to live. Realizing that he will need to change his life style completely he decides to visit Tibet. For 15 months he lives in a Tibetan Monastery, learns to meditate, gains a new lease on life & returns to the U.S. completely rejuvenated & transformed. For the first time in his life he feels genuine love & affection for his fellow human beings, without the need to manipulate or take carnal advantage of them. He starts a commune in Oregon & within 6 months has 600 followers ( many wealthy ) living with him. By 2002 the fabric of society in the U.S. has been terribly shattered by the intractable depression. His supporters convince him that he is the only man who can save the Country. He finally starts to make public appearances for the Democratic Party & in the 2003 convention is the unanimous choice to lead the party in the 2004 election. With Jerry Brown as his running mate, Clinton & the Democrats recapture the White House, Legislature & Congress.

To be continued....

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:35 - ID#370236)
jims - are you out there?
Talked to the corporate people who handle our 401k this week about
putting a potion of mine into gold funds. Answer was negative.
When plan is initiated, certain funds are selected as options by
our company. These will not be changed just for me.

But if enough employees made the same request, action would be considered.

Considering the volitilty of PM's, even if I/we were to lobby fellow
employees and prompt some action, 401k fund would probably get into
gold after it hits US$350 or higher.

As usual, best we do it on our own. - Regards

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:37 - ID#30126)
I must confess, I have only one solid gold position that I've held on to for several years. It's an unhedged producer. Trading activity has become very technically driven for me. Stops, limit orders, etc. To play this game you must first survive and that means hedging, cutting losses short, and taking profits. The hard part is in determining the price points. Who said this was easy?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:38 - ID#267298)
Not Convinced
I for one am not convinced that lowering rates at this point in time
would be positive for Gold. I would certainly hope so and it is the
logical thing to think it would be, BUT,

Just think back over the past twenty-four months and think of
all the "THINGS" that have happened that in times past would
have been positive for Gold but no longer seems to be.

So, if rates are lowered it may just happen that all the euphoria
will be directed to the stock market and Gold gets trashed again.

I hope not but as I say I am not convinced.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:39 - ID#35757)
Cross of Gold
Hi all. I am new to your group. This is my first posting since having waited out my cooling off period. Reading the postings reminded me of something from a high school history class - William Jennings Bryants Cross of Gold  Speech. Below is a link. There is even a picture of a Gold Bug  pin from the 1896 election.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:39 - ID#30126)
Are you writing a horror book?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:40 - ID#345371)
forecast gold trends
Dear Friends,

Any one can tell me how the gold will goes recently,
and the reasons behind it. Thanks.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:42 - ID#29048)
I don't mind being corrected...when I'm wrong.
The Waco seige was in 1993 under Janet Reno and Bill Clinton. To be precise the raid commenced on February 28th, 1993 and ended on April 19th with the death of 76 people. President Bush had been gone more than a month.

You are right about Weaver - 1992. I'm putting my partisan self offline for some sleep. BBML

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:45 - ID#30126)
I had a discussion with a 401K investor today. I am now convinced that the worst is ahead of us somewhere. The perception seems to be that you will NOT lose money in your 401K which is invested in stock funds. The rational behind this seems to be the blind faith placed in the 'company' that is 'running' the 401K for the employees. Surely the companies know they are doing, so the employees seem to think. Oh boy....

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:49 - ID#30126)
So much to think about...
Now I need to give those few working neurons some time to rest......
'Night all.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 22:52 - ID#344236)
@Bingo 20.21

Australian current gold experience is interesting. Production costsare between Australian $250-300 /oz and sales are around Australian $500 oz. Looks to me like they are doing rather well, contrary to the current doom spin on the noble metal! By the way, trying to get 1/10th and 1/20th oz Australian 9999 bullion gold coins very hard over past two weeks. Shops have sold out and awaiting new shipments from Perth Mint.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:02 - ID#370236)
DBog - a rate cut by the fed would only give euphoria for a week, maybe,
and AG knows it. But he can also see the bad news lurking regarding
the worldwide fiat currency crisis. Throw in a long, drawn out fight
for Klinton in DC, dismal 3rd & 4th qtr. US corporate earnings reports,
economies circling the drain worldwide and looming Y2K problems. AG is
between a rock and a hard place. AG is no dummy - he knows more than I.
But all of this is beyond his control.

The Gold Bull has been locked in the same room for too long. He's
kicking down the door, goring the walls. His rage is shakin' the place.

He's gonna break out soon!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:11 - ID#370236)
panda - that's exactly the attitude I ran into.
These people seem to live in a heretofore comfortable dreamland, but
reality is coming. My parents thankfully still practice day-to-day
stingy household budget which has been drilled into my own thick head.

From the Great Depression, when unemployment rate was 25%.

Can we do better in the near future?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:11 - ID#411320)
Gooo Bill
Bill gets my vote. let turn the crack house into a harem,yeah lets
let the pres. have his freek,smoke some dope now and then, what the

What the hay Economy is in great shape, we got our beer and pizza and sex
Why not its great for the country, what the hells wrong with lying
too the grand jury,no one should have to tell the truth to a silly,
ass grand jury anyways. Bill you keep smoken, dopen and skip ropen.
Adultry, yeah what do you think those rooms in the crack house are
for anyway.
Thank Bill you good for gold Gooooo Billy Boooy gooo Gold!!!!!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:17 - ID#431200)
Homestake raises offer for the rest of Prime
Homestake raises offer for the rest of Prime
The Vancouver Sun
Rod Nutt, Sun Business Reporter, with Bloomberg Vancouver Sun
Homestake Mining Co. said Friday it is increasing its offer for the 49.4 per cent of Prime Resources Group Inc. it doesn't own, boosting the transaction's value to about $500 million.
San Francisco-based Homestake is offering 0.74 of a common share for each Prime common share held by Prime minority shareholders, an increase from 0.675 of a Homestake common share.
The revised offer, at Thursday's closing price, values each Prime share at $13.45, up from $12.46 in the original offer, or about eight per cent.

Prime Resources ( TSE: PRU ) closed up $1.05 at $12.85 in Toronto on heavy volume of more than four million shares. Homestake Mining ( NY: HM ) slipped .62 cents US to $11.81 in New York as 3.36 million shares changed hands.

Homestake's initial offer gave investors a 12.5-per-cent premium over Prime's share price on May 22. But falling gold prices pushed Homestake's share price as low as $8.87 US by Aug. 31, making its offer worth close to Prime's share price, which fell to $8.98.

"They had to raise the offer" to win the approval of two-thirds of Prime's non-Homestake shareholders, said David Neuhaus, an analyst at TD Securities Inc. in New York.

"It's the type of transaction that makes sense in this market." In addition to helping Homestake cut its mining costs, the acquisition gives Homestake direct access to Prime's cash, which was $284.49 million on June 30, Neuhaus said.

"This is a good deal for Prime shareholders as well as Homestake," said Prime president and chief executive officer Walter Segsworth.

Graham Scott of law firm Scott, Bissett and chair of the independent committee representing Prime minority shareholders said the share-exchange ratio was increased after negotiations with the U.S. gold producer.

Homestake already owns 50.6 per cent of Vancouver-based Prime through wholly-owned subsidiary Homestake Canada Inc.

"Homestake already had a majority of the shares so Prime wasn't really seen as a takeover target," said Dorothy Atkinson, a partner with IPO Capital Corp. "As a result, its share price was undervalued. It would have been worth more without the Homestake presence."

Atkinson said the buyout had been expected for several years.

"Eskay Creek is a huge moneymaker and it's a good time to buy at today's depressed gold prices."

But some Prime shareholders expressed disappointment at the new offer.

"It's still a bit skinny," said Prime shareholder Larry Pezim. "I'd have been happier with a 15- to 20-per-cent increase."

Shareholder Jack Caplan said: "We would have liked a bit more  the reality is that it becomes a good deal if the price of gold rises."

Pezim agreed, while expressing surprise that the revised offer is slightly below the mid-point valuation of Prime by RBC Dominion Securities.

As a result, the proposed transaction will require approval of two-thirds or more of the minority shareholders.

If the offer had been above the mid-point, only a simple majority of minority shareholders would have had to vote in favour of the deal for it to go through, Pezim said.

"It still has a chance but the vote will not take place for a couple of months. The main factor will be the price of gold at the time."

Prime's minority shareholders will have the option of taking Homestake shares that trade on the New York Stock Exchange or Homestake exchangeable shares that will be issued by wholly-owned subsidiary Homestake Canada.

The latter will be classified as Canadian securities for registered retirement savings plan purposes.

Prime owns and operates the Eskay Creek mine in northwest British Columbia, one of the highest-grade gold and silver mines in the world.

It also owns the Snip gold mine in the same area. "We are very pleased to have reached an agreement with the independent committee," Homestake president and chief executive officer Jack Thompson said from San Francisco.

"Both boards of directors have approved the new offer and Prime will recommend its shareholders accept."

Thompson said the acquisition of the rest of Prime will boost Homestake's gold production by just over 200,000 ounces to 2.5 million ounces of gold a year and reduce cash costs to $209 US an ounce from about $216.

Eskay Creek produced 244,722 ounces of gold and 11.8 million ounces of silver ( 417,303 ounces of gold equivalent ) in 1997 at a total cash cost of $157 US an ounce. Snip produced 115,644 ounces of gold at a cash cost of $213 US an ounce.

Homestake operates in the United States, Australia, Canada and Chile and is actively exploring for metals in Latin America.

Last year, the company acquired Plutonic Resources for $750 million US to become the second-biggest gold producer in Australia.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:20 - ID#174103)
If AG lowers rates, the message to the debt markets will be that creditors are not worth as much as debtors. Such being the case, it will be harder to find long term creditors in paper markets, who will look for alternate investments that tend to keep their value while monetary inflation does its stuff. Gold? Yes!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:25 - ID#290172)
B I N G O ! ! ! !
373R0907 Regulation ( EEC ) No 907/73 of the Council of 3 April 1973 establishing a European Monetary Cooperation Fund Official journal NO. Article 4 The provisions contained in the Agreements referred to in the third indent of Article 3 shall become the a ... 30-jul-1998

"Article 5
The Fund's operations in the currencies of the Member States shall be expressed in a European monetary unit of account of a value of
0,788867088 grammes of fine gold.

When all the Member States alter the parity or the central rate of their currency simultaneously in the same direction, the value of the unit of account shall be changed automatically: - where the parities change in the same proportion : in the same direction and by the same proportion as the changes in parities or in the central rates; - where the parities change in different proportions : in the same direction as the change and in the same proportion as the smallest change in parity or central rate, unless the Council decides on a larger change. In such a case the Council shall act within three days from that of the official announcement by the first Member State to change the parity or central rate of its currency, and in accordance with the procedure laid down in the fourth paragraph of this Article.

Simultaneous changes mean changes in the parity or central rate of the currencies of the Member States made within the three-day period referred to above.
Any other changes in the value of the unit of account shall be decided on by the Council, acting unanimously on a proposal from the Commission after consulting the Monetary Committee and the Board of Governors of the Fund."

{:- ) )

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:30 - ID#280214)
Miles - seems like somebody could make a mint
By picking up the slack in the demand for tiny Gold coins.

ALL - I'm compiling/combining Clintons' victims lists from various sources. If you hear of a name or incident that has NOT been reported here - post just the name and I'll run it through my word search to see if I've got it. No need to duplicate the lengthy posts already made.
The two largest compendiums on the web are:

Is the net slow tonight or should is it my end?

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:41 - ID#370236)
SDRer - thanks. The Euro linked to gold? Hmmmmmm
Am looking for ANYTHING to counter Jeil's charts.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:43 - ID#344236)
@ Squirel and small change
Seems sensible to have a selection of bullion 1/10th, 1/20th and quarter oz gold coins and selection of 1 and 2 oz silver coins for future needs.
Change for any purchases made in gold can be given in silver.
Anyway, how can you lose? - you can always change it for paper money again if all our prognostications on equity markets/Y2K/impending global war/meltdown scenario is all bullshit!
There's a very nice 1kg silver Kookaburra for Australian $360. Sexy and safe, perhaps WJC should have stuck with this!

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:48 - ID#287279)
"That which does not kill me makes me stronger."
If Clinton stays, he will be perceived as the ultimate survivalist, and I believe he will rule through Executive Orders. He will feel invincible and will be much more bold because nothing and nobody can get him.
He must go, although I am not so sure he will.
If the report on the Web is all Starr can come up with, than he is a spineless, gutless prosecutor.
If he could not get anything on drug use, possible murders, possible rape, Filegate, Travelgate, possible treason, Whitewater and more, than this country is truly in very bad shape.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:52 - ID#407135)
It certainly looks like Bill is headed for another climax

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:53 - ID#344236)
@Squirrel...Feast your eyes

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:54 - ID#370236)
Shek - don't sugar coat it. Tell us what you think.
We will share your pain.

(Sat Sep 12 1998 23:59 - ID#290172)
And here is the link---

Financial Organization and Operations of the IMF
Appendix 1: Financial Terms

This appendix provides a glossary of basic operational and financial terms as used in the IMF.

Accounting Unit

The Fund's unit of account is the SDR ( see entry below ) .

Members' currencies are valued by the Fund in terms of the SDR on the basis of their representative rates of exchange, determined in accordance with the Rules and Regulations of the Fund. Gold with depositories is valued on the basis that 0.888671 gram of fine gold is equivalent to 1 SDR ( SDR 35 per fine ounce ) , except for 21,396 fine ounces acquired by the Fund on December 14, 1992 at market value.