Was in the line at the checkout at the local mega warehouse store...

Where you can buy almost anything. I thought the lines were sorta
long and not really moving. We stood there and noticed that all
the cashiers had stuck up a sign that said "CANNOT PROCESS DEBIT
OR CREDIT CARDS AT THIS TIME". For a few minutes most people did not notice. Then we started hearing stuff like AAWWWW $#!T! "Honey, did
you bring the checkbook or any cash" and the sight of people rifling
through thier pockets and purses struck me like a ton of bricks.

The wife had the checkbook and we went to the front of the line. I asked
the cashier "what was the problem?" She replied that "the computers were
not working with any plastic". The scanners and registers were working, just no electronic transactions. The place almost came to a standstill
within 10 minutes. People were leaving thier carts and heading for the
door. We left with the goods after writing a check.

A possible vision of the future?

roebear...

select weekly crude....and hit the submit ( view ) button...
the service is free....options quotes tambien....

http://bohl.minot.com/index.html

who knows where the fell wind---will---blow ( s ) .....the crude one will
shine as never before.....with the golden one close behind.....the
profits from oil....our $$$$$.....finance the machines of war throughout
the world.....as we prosper and grow.....so grows the machinations of
chaos and flux..........

'if i have seen farther than others, it is because i have stood on the shoulders of giants'............sir isaac newton....the man..

who dares ride the amongst the clouds of the mind? what is there to gain?

a view, that very few, will ever 'see'..........

cherokee!...'can.you.'see'.the.real.me..'?..the.who....

Open-loop,


#1- Where are you located?

#2 - in the misc.survivalism newsgroup last week, there were two
postings almost identically to yours here. In one, a business
owner was no longer able to process credit cards, called his
bank, and drew the conclusion that all hell was breaking loose
there.

In the other, all gas stations of a certain company had quit
working in Texas.

I suppose I could cut and paste these for others to read.

Tokyo stocks remain lower in early afternoon trade

Reuters, Sunday, September 20, 1998 at 23:56
TOKYO, Sept 21 ( Reuters ) - Tokyo stocks remained lower in early afternoon trade on Monday after they fell to fresh 12-year lows by midday, amid uncertainty about Japan's political scene following an unclear compromise on financial bills between the ruling and opposition parties, traders said. As of 0343 GMT, the benchmark Nikkei average was down 321.18 points or 2.30 percent at 13,661.94. In morning trade, the Nikkei fell as low as 13,658.79.
A leader of the opposition Democratic Party said in a talk show on Sunday that a hard-fought compromise on the bills reached on Friday did not necessarily constitute an agreement.

Copyright 1998, Reuters News Service

Tonight, on Channel 2 News, ( CBS ) , they actually did a segment on Y2K! They interviewed, management in New York about the potential problems. Bottom line from what I saw was, they don't have the money, the manpower, or, the time to fix it. So, expect blackouts, no 911 etc.

When the Dec SnP opened a week or so ago, traders estimated fair value to be about 11 points over the cash SnP. As time passes, this premium or value shrinks in the same way that options premiums shrink as the strike date ( December ) is approached. The closer the strike date the smaller the fair value premium. APH would be the expert on this but I believe this is the general answer.

I have no idea if this was Y2k realted or not. But it was eeerie!

No panic, just disgust and anger amongst the folks who just had plastic.
I did see people peeling $100 bills in some cases...

openloop....

if your scenario was logically moved to the next step....

the peopleo would have access to enough cash to empty the
shelves in less than 2 hrs.....oh yeah.....

isaac asimov and robert heinlein.....two of the greatest
writers ever.....wrote of mass--mob---psychology....
the peopleo have yet to make their first run through
the de-worming chutes....they will not be alarmed...
not until the bullet hits the bone will the peopleo awaken....
awaken just in time to witness their second moment of sentience...
their demise......birth the first.....

consider the cities, and the avenues for flight---'when'--
flight is necessary for the safety of your families...
they are called FREEWAYS.....just as greenland and iceland
are misnomers....

deceit forever, from the few to control the many........cherokeeism.

rockefeller got a lot of money? consider the rosthschild's 3 million
compounded during napolean's reign....they own rockefeller....as
boot-lickers......

'the time has come...a facts a fact...it belongs to them...--persia--
they're gonna take it back....' crude calls....ALLABOARD...woo.wooo.wooooooo

cherokee!....looking.back......to.see.forward....hari.seldon.knows.....

Excuse me for pointing this out, maybe there's some humor that
I missed, as many of your posts, are way over my head, as you know-

"Date: Sun Sep 20 1998 18:40
cherokee ( @...one.more....to.break.the.camels.back...and.signal...ATTACK!!! ) ID#288231:
Copyright  1998 cherokee All rights reserved

roebear...

look at weekly crude..in '91....

http://bohl.minot.com/index.html

oil to $41bbl real quick...

And then you mention Iraq to attack Afghanistan, do you mean Iran?
Accoring to what I saw on the chart the run up in crude was in '90,
am I missreading??

when iraq invades afghanistan...and the missles

Dang. I thought I remember that you were in Phoenix. So am I.

Where did this happen at?

Incidentally, reading the two pre-Y2K reports in misc.survivalism
got me down to Costco this weekend, where I priced out expirations
and costs of bulk food.

I don't believe the world will end, but I could see several months
of intermittent disruptions in all services.

Globex futures are down pretty big at this hour SnP 500 -13.40 and Nasdaq 100 -14.50. Japan also disappointed with possible collapse of banking solution agreement.

Since Friday closed strong though - with REITs, energy and Russell 2000 up, we could see a bullish reversal in the afternoon after a big down in the morning. Too early to forecast anything but will be very interesting to see how reaction to the Clinton video goes. G'night

Not all traders say a re-test of silver's low is in order.

Not this one, although I would not rule out a move back to $4.70

December Silver had an intra-day low of $4.605 on 9/1, recorded on the Access system. Equivalent spot would be about $4.56

Like so much market mumbo-jumbo, re-testing is a perputated myth. How many double bottoms in any market ever occur. Very few.

What does happen, from my experience, is:

1 ) Prices re-trace their previous advance from a significant low by sometimes as much as 92% +-, before resuming their advance.

2 ) If prices do retreat to their previous significant low, then lower prices are probable, before making a final low. A recent example, gold. January's low of $278 was recently breached. December Gold's intra-day low ( Access ) was $273.80 ( 8/28 ) ., equivalent to about $271 spot. Is conventional market wisdom calling this a re-test failure? To me it's a positive happening. Perhaps gold's final bear market low is now in place. I am so wagering.

As I see it, silver has good potential to hit $6.70+- over the next several months. But it could hit $4.70 first. A $0.30 downside risk vs. intermediate upside potential of plus $1.70 from current price levels.
I like my ( ! ) arithmetic.

donald...

my e-mail address has changed..

for the moment it is

cherokeeeee@msn.com

heeee.heeee.heeee...no sh!t!

reify...

bingo!

damned about time....the reward? a seat on the ssm.....

Hello all, I've been lurking here for quite awhile and would like say thank you for all of the enlightening posts and helpful links. especially the y2k links. You are a genuine group of folks.

I need a little help on oil stocks. I'm trying to build a list of stocks to track but don't know where to begin. I'm looking for the Durban Deeps, the Harmonys and the Claimstakers of the oil patch. I'm also looking for stocks in the oil patch that are similar to Tan Range and Balaclava in potential. So far all I have is RIS Resources but it's purely a natural gas play. Any advice would be infinitely appreciated.

I am in Chandler. And thats why we were there today! ( COSTCO ) Y2K stuff...
Drop me your E-mail.

Welcome, take of your hat, stay a while.

I was at the pharmacy today buying an essential medication that I use daily, and I mentioned to the young woman that I wanted to order a three month supply in factory sealed bottles, which I would rotate through while buying each month's regular amount ( always having 3 months on hand )

She became curious and I told her my concerns for Y2k and being particularly vulnerable to the lack of this medicine. ( I should point out that my views are very moderate, I don't have a bunkers and guns mentality, just common sense and a few precautions )

She looked at me with such derision, and scoffed that, "well.. nothing like that's going to happen!"

So I gently tried to educate her, and she again replied that such problems, even in they *did* occur, would have nothing to do with the pharamacy business.

So, I pointed out that the computer she just used, the bar code reader in her hand, and in fact, everything in the store was totally dependant upon the utility companies for power.

She cut me off, like some UFO nut, and told me that "they", ( meaning the great "they" that take care of everything ) , would have it all fixed before then. And that the "government would never let that happen, they'll get it fixed, they *always* do." Then she dismissed me by rolling her eyes.

As I walked away I thought , you dear little lamb, they've trained you well, haven't they....

Glad to have you with us. I can't claim any great expertise on oil stocks, but the stuff I've read lately seems to be suggesting that oil service stocks might be the better bet rather than pure oil. They have been pretty volitile lately up and down substantially, but when oil goes up, I think they do seem to go up faster and further - for what it's worth. I just sold some GLM and may buy it back pretty soon - NBR and SLB would be in that category too as would the Fidelity fund FSESX which I still have some of and which seems to do well if given half a chance. But as I say, please don't take my ideas too seriously as I'm not a pro and am just trying as hard as I can to learn.

Are you the co-pilot for Gollum's sub?

Two postings from misc.survivalism last week. I can't vouch for
their accuracy, but after ten years of reading postings, I'd like to
think that I can detect the "ring of truth".

These have the ring of truth to me.

------

( posted on 9/14/98 at 4:06 PM )

What's going on? Can't get any info off of
TV or net.

I've got a small business and went to transact
a mail order for a customer. But the order
wouldn't process. "DISCOONNECT" just
printed up on the receipt. After the third
try, I phoned my bank in California.

As the customer service rep answered the
phone, I could hear what sounded like
hundreds of reps in the background...all
talking at once! I asked my rep if there was
a technical problem, and he said "Boy! Is
there!" I asked if it was a major problem
and he said he didn't know....that they
only knew that it was nationwide....and
not just their system exclusively.

Anybody hear anything? Geez! If this is
a nationwide problem....just think of all
the restaurants that are having a bitch of
a time right now!

B.G.
http://www.fulldisclosure.org/y2k
http://www.glr.com/dwm


===========
( posted on 9/16/98 11:40 AM )

Well Funny thing.....

IT happened in Texas Tonight.

At least at ALL Texaco Stations across the entire state. ( Lot of
Square Miles )

When buying my gas this evening, hand written signs were posted on all
the pumps stating that the Credit/Debit computers had stopped working
and that everyone had to pay "cash".

I laughed, already having a 20.00 bill out, but when I went inside to
pay, all of 1minute, three different people were totally loosing it!

You cant take credit cards?

I have to pay in cash?

Whats going on?

Cant you call it in?

You mean you cant do a manual transaction?

I asked the clerk if it was" Y2K' early, and he laughed. He said that
at 5:00 this evening CST, ALL of the Debit/Credit machines across the
Entire State had gone down, at least for Texaco.

I asked him if he was familiar with Y2K , and he said of course isn't
everyone?
This guy just earned my respect. : )


That tall Blonde, with the tight stretch pants and smacking that pink
bubble gum was almost in tears. : (

She left in a tizzy rather quickly, making the comment that she would
just have to "wait until tomorrow" to buy her gas.

I politely said.... "See ya" : ) ( Without extrapolating on Y2K. )

I wonder........ are most people SO dependant on Debit Cards for their
gas that people dont carry 5.00 on them anymore?

I know I'm pushing it here, but you have to wonder.

As I was driving, off after topping off my tanks, I looked back and
saw Two Business Men 'desperately' trying their debit cards in the
pumps, totally ignoring the signs. Wallet in hand, and several credit
cards in their fingers.


I wanted to laugh again...... But I couldn't.


Best Regards,


Carl A. Stiles

Was With some friends last night who live way out in the desert. We are
totally bipolar on politics and the economy but have been good friends
for a long time. They carried on last night just like your young
checkout gal at the Pharmacy. They think we are totally out of our tree.
I have gotten used to it and have almost shut up completly. If it breaks,
there are hundreds of people that will remember me! ...

Thanks for the invite. I think I'll do just that.

Since I've been lurking here there have been hundreds of questions I wanted to ask but have found that if I just wait awhile the question will be answered by other posters. Some remain a mystery. Mystery #1, The Eurodollar: It is my understanding that the eurodollar is an American dollar held on deposit in an overseas bank. Assuming that this is true why, when the dollar has recently lost I think about 2 or 3 % has the eurodollar gone up? Can anyone explain this relationship or is my definition of the eurodollar incorrect?

I take strong exception at your right-wing militia rant about it only taking 2 hours to empty an ATM. The ATM's usually have either 85,000FRN or 115,000FRN in a cassette. At 250FRN per withdrawel in 3 minute intervals, they would last almost 2.;5-3.0 hrs. I am appalled that you would try to scare the public with such pronouncements. They have at least an extra 30 minutes before the world they know comes to an end.

Cordially, jinx44 - in the bunker

Open Loop - you can email me at venetian@earthlink.net

Dang. I was planning to stop by Costco today to start buying stuff.
Got distracted on other things.
I guess I better get busy this week.

SEPTEMBER 21, 00:03 EDT
Ripken Ends Streak at 2,632
By DAVID GINSBURG
BALTIMORE ( AP )  Cal Ripken walked into his manager's office before the game with a simple, stunning message: ``I think the time is right.''
And so by taking imself out of the lineup Ripken ended the most amazing iron-man record in sports history.
After 16 years and 2,632 consecutive games, the 38-year-old third baseman sat out of Sunday night's game against the New York Yankees with just one week left in the season.
``I don't feel a sense of relief. I don't feel much different,'' Ripken said after the game. ``Now that I know what it feels like I don't want to sit and watch a game anymore.''
He said he would return to the starting lineup Monday night at Toronto.
Ripken was not hurt, but with the Orioles out of playoff contention and playing their final home game, he decided to end the string that began on May 30, 1982.
``What Cal did is so unbelievable. That's one record I do think that will be around for a generation,'' baseball commissioner Bud Selig said. ``What he's done, he's done a great thing for baseball.''
The end came during a magical season that has featured the historic home run chase between Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa, a perfect game by David Wells and the Yankees' pursuit of the AL record for victories.
There had been recent talk that Ripken would volunteer to end the streak, which broke Lou Gehrig's record of 2,130. Before the game, Ripken told manager Ray Miller to remove his name from the lineup; rookie Ryan Minor started in his place.
``The emphasis should be on the team,'' Ripken said. ``There have been times during the streak when the emphasis was on the streak. I was never comfortable with that.''
One out into the game, when it became evident that Ripken would not be playing, all of the Yankees walked to the top step of the dugout and applauded.
Ripken emerged from the Orioles dugout, tipped his hat toward the Yankees and stepped back down to the bench. With the sellout crowd standing and cheering, Ripken came out again and bowed to his fans.
There was an immediate rush to the souvenir stands at Camden Yards, with fans lining up to buy programs to the mark the historic night.
As the game progressed, Ripken appeared relaxed as he laughed with teammates on the bench. He then watched much of the game from the Orioles bullpen, occasionally shaking hands with fans and posing for pictures. He emerged in the sixth inning to warm up left fielder B.J. Surhoff and chatted with his best friend on the team, center fielder Brady Anderson. Ripken also shook hands with fans in the bleachers along the outfield wall, much in the same fashion he did when he broke Gehrig's record. This time, however, he wore a warmup jacket over his uniform.
Ripken pulled himself a week before finishing his 16th straight season of playing every game. He finally did it only after the Orioles had no real chance of making the playoffs  they were mathematically eliminated with a 5-4 loss Sunday  and thus avoided yet another winter filled with questions about the streak. Ripken, who went 0-for-4 against the Yankees on Saturday and was mired in an 0-for-12 skid, was batting .273 with 14 home runs and 61 RBIs.
His numbers are among the lowest of his career, which began in 1981. His streak began the next season, when he became the AL Rookie of the Year.
It started when Ronald Reagan was still in his first term as president. It was overseen by eight managers  including his father, Cal Sr.  and lasted longer than most baseball careers. It was analyzed, criticized and scrutinized. And now, it's over.
After he told Miller of his decision, Ripken called Orioles owner Peter Angelos and calmly told him.
``He just said it very typically Cal. No melodrama, no emotion,'' Angelos said. ``Just flatly, `This is what I'm going to do.' In a very thoughtful way, he said, ``I know you would like to know before I do this and I thought I should tell you.'' While it appears no one will ever again play in 2,632 consecutive games, the man who broke Gehrig's seemingly unbreakable record by more than 500 isn't so sure the record will be his for eternity.
On Sept. 6, 1995, Ripken passed the record set by Gehrig, who was forced from the game by a rare muscular disorder that later became known as Lou Gehrig's disease.
A shortstop then, Ripken became the sport's all-time iron man on June 14, 1996, when he played in his 2,216th consecutive game  surpassing the record previously held by Japan's Sachio Kinugasa.
After he broke Kinugasa's record in Kansas City, Ripken was asked if he thought the mark would remain his forever.
``A lot of people think this is a great, great accomplishment,'' Ripken said. ``But I really believe that somebody else will come along and play more games, because if I can do it, somebody else definitely will. I don't consider myself superhuman and I'm not an iron man physically or mentally. ``It's just that the right combination of things happened in my baseball career that allowed me to do that.''
Ripken had played in every Orioles game since that day in 1982 when Earl Weaver started him at third base after giving him a break in the second game of a doubleheader one day earlier.
Ripken moved to shortstop on June 30 of that season and stayed at the position for 2,216 games before Manny Alexander replaced him while Ripken moved to third on July 15, 1996.
Baseball's humble hero, Ripken was credited by many with single-handedly saving baseball in the aftermath of the bitter 1994 players' strike that canceled the World Series and alienated fans from New York to Seattle.
The streak was something poetic at a time many thought baseball had lost its romance.
Ripken did not establish his streak by playing timidly. He dived and leapt and slid with the best of them, and there were plenty of close calls that almost brought the streak to an end.
The scariest moment came in the middle of the 1997 season, when back spasms nearly forced Ripken to sit out a game in Anaheim. But he played in pain, hit the game-winning home run and kept the streak intact through the end of the season.
Ripken also came close to benching himself in 1993 after he twisted his knee during a fight with the Seattle Mariners. Ripken finished the game, and although his knee was swollen and painful the following afternoon, he didn't even miss infield practice.
Then there was the bizarre photo shoot before the 1996 All-Star game. As the AL stars were stepping off a makeshift platform, Chicago White Sox pitcher Roberto Hernandez slipped and slammed his forearm into Ripken's nose while trying to catch his balance.
Although Ripken broke his nose, he had it reset and played into the seventh inning. Of course, he was back in the Orioles' starting lineup two days after that.
While The Streak will ultimately be recognized as Ripken's most notable feat, he has also excelled on the field. He appeared in his 16th straight All-Star game this summer, won Gold Gloves in 1991 and 1992 and was named AL MVP in 1991 and 1983, the last year the Orioles won the World Series. ``I know of many injuries he's had and he's certainly been able to deal with them in a very, very spectacular way,'' Angelos said. ``I think he's done the right thing.
``When you see it happen you wonder how anyone could have done what Cal has done here,'' he added. ``I don't believe anyone will ever equal it.''

this has been my reasoning for quite a while. i am very long silver. Pascal's wager: finite chance to gain infinity, so to speak. plus you get the monetary upside of gold, and also, the actual shortage of silver stocks. a shortfall which is exacerbated by great industrial consumption. i can wait. futures, and stocks, like hecla and coeur are screaming steals. these are healthy companies; and they can wait. hecla's greens creek mine is like king solomon's mine: a great cash cow. primarily a zinc mine, yet largest silver producer in north america, some of the silver runs 2,000 oz to the ton and good gold and lead credits. i think if one buys these stock and has a little patience they will be well rewarded.

Your tale is very familar. Lost opportunity. Then hope for tomorrow.
When it becomes more painful not to act than acting appropriately when called for, we are set free. Sounds high faluting??, but sage advice to me. Thanks.

They go together down a hallway lined with doors. They open the first door to see Newt boiling in oil. Clinton says Oh no! Not that! They close the door and proceed to the next one. They open the door to see Rush stretched out on a rack. Clinton says Oh no! Not that! They open the next door and find Ken Starr getting a blow job from Monica. Clinton says, Yea yea, this is the one I want. Satan goes over and kicks Monica and says, "Get out of here, your replacement has arrived."

SHOOOOOORT the DOW and get your GRUB, GUNS, and GOLD

does anyone know if gold is reacting to this decline?

uh huh...amazing...tasted a new tequila...CMAX, Namaste' I gots to send a bottle of this to ya...uh huh...

The asian equities bull seems to be over. Okay, so it wasn't that funny.

Japan 13585.31 -397.81 -2.84%

four more symbols than I had before. They've been "marked and membered", 'ROAD WARRIOR' if I remember correctly.

Open-Loop, didn't much like that fleet of 1950's prop jobs he called an airline and don't much like the thought of toodling around in a sardine can with a busted compass.

" give me land lotsa land don't"

I'll drop you a mail in the next few days. Thanks!!

If you were, your handle would be fitting. But you know, I never looked
at Gollum's plane as an old clunker. Rather like a brand new one with
alot of bugs. ( Lethal Bugs ) . He is a brave man to be at the controls.

Welcome again. This is the only place to be on the web.

Regards, O.L.

Can watch it "Live" ( 20 minute delay ) overnight trading....along with the DOWTANIC and the SAW ( as in bye-bye ) BUCK....

Just starting to open - France 3465.22 -26.68 -0.77%

I too am very long silver. My view is that all fundamentals ( silver stocks, etc. ) are known by the market participants that count. Same goes for silver's monetary upside. Silver is cheap, very, very cheap. The charts look OK too. The drastic severe price decline in late August is atypical of final washouts. Took me by suprise.
My thinking for years has been that the optimum speculation vehicle for a precious metal is the metal itself. A silver company such as Hecla is steps removed from the bullion itself. If leverage is the objective, silver futures offer a fantastic opportunity. Why bet on management, labor, politics, ore reserve estimates, mine disastors ... ? I was trained as a professional mining engineer, but as an investment vehicle, I choose bullion and/or over any mining company's shares hands down.

...I kneel before you...gold sword held palms up...certainly I did not mean to dis...grace...such being...should be shunned...I offer nothing...nothing...in defense of my words and actions...nothing...

guilty be me...

a chill washes over me...it does not cleanse...oh...no...I am next in line to be nailed to the tree of WOE...there is no glint of anger...none in mine eyes...as he who wields the hammer...strikes...each nail...


my spine shall not break...nor my will...and spirit...I grow ever stronger...when I get called on the carpet I look first to my feet...

all this me...wishes for each and every one of you the bliss found in my dreams...

Namaste'

can't seem to get that site. kind of new at this internet stuff. i'll ask one of my kids tomorrow.

I'll try to do hotlinks for you....I am not sure how this works here..


http://www.mrci.com/qpnight.htm

Hope this works

-75.20 -2.17%

for glenn ..
what is data source for falling gold
demand ?
Following site had second quarter
demand strong
http://www.gold.org/Gedt/Gdt24/Gms_conf.htm

you make a good point. i am mixing it up. futures and a variety of stocks and long term stock otions. but your point is well taken. i made a lot with pegasus wts in 87 and now they are bankrupt; and consolidated nevada mining, now real del monte lost about 97% of its vakue in the last yeat with a 10 to one role back. but this is an area i know pretty well. i ahve also hit a few real long balls over the years e.g. arequipa. i am careful and diversified.

How can one include a link in his posting here so that someone can read it... I tried traditional HTML and was told it is "not allowed" like porno I guess..... I tried just to cut n paste the address and that didn't work either....what gives??

France -92.17 -2.66%
Germany -56.82 -1.24%

.

All I'm thinking is that if the DOW were to drop to 7600 this week, I certainly wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of it. 135pts would make it about 200 shy.

time to turn in - big day tomorrow.

http://www.flex.com/~jai/articles/namaste1.html

Dr. Oliver Sacks...profound impact...truth...this man tailored Piglets clothing...money is the least best measure of a soul...

The latest ABSA Mocatta Goldwatch Weekly is now available at http://www.drd.co.za/

Looking ahead the market is just giving the impression that it doesnt want to go up

much more. The possible impeachment of Bill Clinton is largely factored in to the

market, and despite talk of huge rallies triggered by Fund short positions, no-one really

believes it. The list of negatives on the other hand is growing. Poor physical offtake as a

result of on-going economic problems throughout Asia ( dont expect India to keep

bailing the rest of the World out ) , a weaker Aussie currency ( anyone want to buy a

Gold medal? ) , continuing weakness in Asian sharemarkets and the prospect for these

to further impact Western markets ( Yes this is a negative, despite the traditional safe

haven argument ) , and finally, the lack of any real commitment to lower US interest

rates in response to the whole mess......

Goldteck--good story on Cal Ripken. There are hundreds of Cal Ripkens on this site. I'm trying for another few years. cheers, Masochists-R-Us.

jinbx44 and Who Cares--great stuff on Y2K and ATMs etc. I've been storing petrol ( gasoline ) in jerry cans. Now you've got me worried. I spent 9 years in Papua New Guinea. Supplies were so erratic that I had a 44 gallon drum + generator etc. under the house. Good place to store petrol, eh?? Anyhow, you guys ( and sharefin ) are getting me worried enough that I'm going to move back into PNG mode--44 gallon drum etc. You can get a little plastic hand pump to go with it. Fill it up gradually with your jerry cans. Suggest you don't store it under the house, though. 44 gals will take you a long way ( just ask bjC ) . I own a company that deals in cash--so I just may open my own bank come Y2K. Harr harr. Nick the banker!!

I have been trying to catch up with you for a while. Do you still own RSG. I apologise if you have already replied as I have asked you this question before.

Thanks.

Randomwalker__A ( HELP! ANYONE! ) ID#409232:

Just type in the URL
( ie ) http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969

it is a lovely place in their Hearts...bask...yes...warmth...

Mate, I am an RSG fan extraordinaire. I own squillions of shares and am accumulating more on corrections. Why?? They have got an offer of $300 million squid on the board for their nickel interests. Preston shareholders will vote on Oct. 13th?? on the deal. If this deal goes through they will be cashed up to the kazoo and feelin' mean. They are already paying 2 cents dividend, which will increase to 5 cents on nickel deal with a promise to pay 50% of windfall in dividends. It is like money in the bank. Hang on. I take that back. It is like gold coins buried in your back yard. If heaven were on earth--it would be RSG shares at these prices. Resolute ( RSG ) has gone into partnership with BHP to buy all of their gold interests in Africa. They have producing mines at world-best low production costs. Will soon be a 500,000 oz producer at low cost. Don't tell anyone about this company as I want to buy more shares from the chickenshits on the next correction. Cheers, Nick. ps--lots more hard info on demand. N.

Your projections on 1000 ton gold surplus amazes me. Please
give us your source, or sources to verify this fact you have
stated, as I am sure many here would also like to see.
Thank you, and look forward to your post.

rsg is a great buy but if you have a look at their tenament's in ghana
a little knon aussie explorer has most of them some with encouroging
drill results so far they are now trading at 6.5 cents also have farmed
out 1900 sq klm to rangold !!!!

Stock market sells off going into release of Clinton report ( this time video ) then rallies on the release as it proves no worse or embarrassing than expected.???

Anybody have the time for the video's premiere on network television? I think its 8am - can anybody atest.

Tend to agree with the earlier poster that the gold market isn't really showing us too much and could fall like a rock on any good news. Looking at the weekly charts of the preciuos metals over the weekend was enough to throw cold water on my bullishness. The Privateer had a close only point and fiqure chart of gold which was very impressive to the point that while a bottom may have been hit ( like so many other times in the last 18 years ) a close of 308 minimum would be needed to confirm it and then there would be a good likihood of a consolidation phase between 288 and 308 before a challenge could be made on 315, 325....

The downtrends in PT and Silver are even more evident. $380 on PT and $5.30 on silver are needed to reverse their trends in my opinon. Failing that, the expectation would be for continued weakness to
$4.50 -$4.25 in silver and $325-340 in PT.

The CRB looks ready for a retest of 200. Oil should be stopped at $16.25.

Trends are down, might reverse, yes, may go through consolidation, probably at best.

Also, tend to agree with thoughts on the way to play silver being best through the futures market. Five times leverage can reasonably be obtained using futures, about what you'd get in a fully margined silver stock position. Having looked at the silver stocks pretty carefully I come away pretty unimpressed with their fundlementals. Eighteen years of bear market has been tough. They are speculative plays on a speculation. You can at least buy gold stocks that have earnings and in the case of STillwater Mining a north american metals mining company with virtually guaranteed rising revenues and earnings.

After the show is over today we'll see how much the DOW has trimmed its overnight losses and how much gold has been able to hold on to its 30 cent rally. I'll bet the DOW doesn't close more than 30 ponits lower and gold more than a dollar lower. We'll see - these repeats with dashed hopes are turning me into a cynic.

Got the oil chart, and a great site to boot, bravo! Now "News forllows Price" as crude goes up despite bearish news from Royal Dutch Friday. Let the games begin.

Allright mate, you've got me. 6.5 cents??? I ain't got none. C,mon. Will send you a carton of VB.

Feel like buying gold - might want to look at this close only chart fro The Privateer. I like point and fiqure charts - close only even better- most of the noise is eliminated. In this case the remaining sound is deefening. If no $304, better $308 on a close, look out for new lows.

http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/gold-pf.html

okay forgot to tell you about the 12 leases 15-20 klm s-e of obouse
it is leo shield they have a web site check it out for yourself!!
good to see you drink the very best!

I too am heavily invested in the company. You are right when the market drops they go down ( I remember you buying a few at $1.04 and then they ran to $1.55 ) , but they come up just as quick when things turn around. Preston are due to vote on the 16th. I am pretty confident that the Bulong sale will get the thumbs up. Did you notice recently that Ashanti gold bought out Resolute's partner in the Golden Pride project. Ashanti have long since been seen as a possible suitor for RSG due to it's African projects. After the vote and RSG are cashed up it wouldn't surprise me to see Ashanti make a move for RSG.

Regards.

T-Bone

g'day folks.

Interesting sentiment in the stock markets today. Asia mostly in the red, Europe opening largely down, Clinton's testimony going to be released in a scant 4 hours time...

Meanwhile, the inverted yields in the US bond markets are looking *very* interesting. Will any more 'flight to quality' send the US long bond up any further? ( I've got some spare cash for some puts, maybe )

Sandgopher - what's this company you're talking of with those tenements in Ghana? Pray tell, so we can share in your good fortune, sir. If it turns out to be a great tip, you can have a dinner on me in Sydney sometime ;- )

Nick@C - how are your big miners doing? still sitting pretty? I've loaded up on some blue chip puts, hoping to make some quick ones. With any luck, a big reaction to the Clinton problem might put me in the black tomorrow. -- plan is to cash out and look for calls on big miners ... those with lotsa gold ... :- )

ahh... youth. easy come, easy go. big risk taking. i love it.



and now, for your reading pleasure, today's quip of the day:


After his Ignoble Disgrace, Satan was being expelled from
Heaven. As he passed through the Gates, he paused a moment in thought,
and turned to God and said, "A new creature called Man, I hear, is soon
to be created."
"This is true," He replied.
"He will need laws," said the Demon slyly.
"What! You, his appointed Enemy for all Time! You ask for the
right to make his laws?"
"Oh, no!" Satan replied, "I ask only that he be allowed to
make his own."
It was so granted.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

You might want to take a look at Jeils charts on ASA and Homestake. If his charts are correct Privateers projections to the downside are correct.

Impervious...oh..and one more thing...an attic filled with humility...uh huh...Pete...nooooooooooooo...you can't do that...AGHHHHHHHHHHHH...

Here is Jeils site URL: http://pcis.net/jeannev/jeil.htm

Good to have some gold-lunatics online with me. We will be sitting on the Riviera sipping Chateau Lafitte '59 when the 'others' will be eating baked beans and white bread.

Sandy--I got stopped out on Leo--mongrels!!! Will have another look tomorrow.

T-Bone---I can't believe that people would sell 3 bucks for $1.23 I will keep accumulating RSG.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_176000/176364.stm

how long can the regime keep the foreign press from publishing pictures?

"The Malaysian authorities are currently jamming all attempts by the BBC to feed pictures of the demonstrations in the capital Kuala Lumpur back to the UK."

i will say no more since this seems too be frowned upon around here
have a look see what you think !!!

well, on the cover page of http://www.russiatoday.com/ anyway...

check it out.

Captain, what should our target depth be today?

I think Jims is going to be right on the SnP today. Buy it between 1000-995 ( dec ) before 9:30 am cst.

the link is incorrect...oops!

am on there regulary you may want to change server's!!!

I find it hard to believe that Clinton was nominated as a presidential candidate with the baggage that he was then being suspected of. ( Mena, Whitewater, other suspious connections and sexcapades )

It appears to me that unknown backers ( probably non-american ) have him in their grip, so as, if he diverges from their desire, they can put the pressure on; or he can be used as a diversion to concentrate the peoples attention away from what is really unfolding about us.

quite correct...if I had another brain it would die of loneliness...uh huh...underneath the mud...my apologies...sink...lower than that be me...

Regionalism, Nationalism and a smattering of indivigual pride will have a tremendous impact on the acceptance of real money. Without groups or areas uniting in unison the fiat powers will bleed us dry. Gogold

at 10060. Amsterdam down 6%, Swiss off 4% gold up 60 cents and silver up 4 cents at 5.01

I got stopped out on 100,000 Leo Shield on April 7th at .155. Saved myself $9000 on today's price ( .065 ) . Had a look at some others. One stopped at 40 cents, now 3.5 cents etc. Without stop losses I would be out of business. I'm sure many gold bugs can attest to that. I have bought shares at .065 and had them go to .005. Stopped out long before. Dangerous bloody business this!! Having said all that, I am filling Mother Hubbard's cupboard at these prices. Will have another serious look at Leo.

sandgopher, Nick@C

leos graph looks like someone on viagra, performing a headstand. They were over 0.70, then nose diving to recent 0,065.
i am patiently waiting for their annual report, usually published end of oct, to take a close look to their balance-sheet, if they will be able to survive until they start to mine. I hope they will, as somehow this is one of my favourite wannabees. As well I will have a close look at their shareholder-registry for 2 reasons: First, if family, directors and friends are still in the company big time, and second: If Rothschilds ( who appeared last year as shareholders ) somewhat changed their holdings.
Leo Shield has a connection to Ashanti ( exploring their tenements ) , these projects are in a rather late stage of exploration, but they also explore some gems in Mali and Burkina Faso.

We are on the verge of history.

I tend a bit toward the contrarian. So naturally, looking at the red in asia and europe, the down pointing Globex, Jeil's charts, and the MRCI roadmaps, I would normally begin to think we might be in for an up day or at least not for very much of a down one. Kinda like jims.

But this time, I don't think so. We are about to plunge into the September trench. We may or may not see some bottoming in October depending on how well the various still highly exposed leveraged hedge funds survive.

The great bull market of the 90's has been a long and powerfull one. The resulting bust must be of equally impressive quality. Not just some puny little collpse in Russia and a bit of instability in foreign currency markets played to the tune of presidetail peccadilo.

The opening chords have been played, now the house lights are being lowered. All that has gone before is just preamble.

Gold couldn't be UP $1.20. Who would want that worthless stuff? Can't eat it. Go swimming with it and you'll drown. What's the use of having a fancy ring or necklace?? Worthless bloody stuff!! Going to buy a couple of pigs and feed them the scraps. At least I can eat my investment!!{{:- ) ) ) . PPPtttthhttttt to gold shorts!!!
..................................
Get your white bread futures NOW. Mahathir is toast!!! Then buy yourself some hot dog buns, cause the Chief Weenie is about to get roasted. Does anyone know how long beer lasts in storage??

I am, as always, your erudite, sophisticated and humble servant. Nick@C.

UP $1.30
http://www.dbc.com/cgi-bin/htx.exe/dbcfiles/curcommt.html?SOURCE=core/europe

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980921/d6.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980921/f6.html

Notice however that the Democrats seem to be lining up now behind the idea that Clinton should testify before the judiciary committee. At that point he'd claim that he didn't intentionally lie. He'll admit the truth which by now we all know. The Republican Judiciary may recommend impeachemnt but remeber the Republicans will need some Democratic votes to pull of the final deal.

Clinton's having admitted he is sorry, that what he said didn't represent the truth but that there was not "intent" will take it right. He'll get by - may go down to a couple of votes but he'll slip away.

What bothers me is that there is so much more that STAR should have on this guy and his wife, yet the average AMerican sees it only as a matter of lying about sex during a witch hunt investigation. They can forgive that. Many have done the same in less legal settings.

Watch for testimopny before the judiciary - soon - that'll be the next big event, unfortunately not on the internet or tv, but the out come of will certainly mark a buy point for a DOW and S&P rally.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980921/fh.html

they have around 4 mill in the bank at present they should not go broke
( fingers crossed ) i know a guy who know's aguy who went for a job there to do the pre feasability study on one the main prospects his job was to make ready for a late november annoncement also are 49% holders
of a lease ready to mine but goldenknight of canada is to busy with tarkwa ... kalgoorlie nickel smelter to close ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/the_economy/newsid_174000/174746.stm

http://www.cme.com/cgi-bin/gflash.cgi

Bungee this week or broken rubber band???

All: as Gollum said, we may be writing history this week. Bad time for WCJ's problems to surface, as Japan heads south on more time. Globex SP-500 pegged down last I dared to look.

Key question: Is gold to go up this time, or down? I have bet on up, but a serious threat to the world's financial system could very well push it down one more time.

Gollum: How did that y2k compliant bug screen work for your sub? Already installed? If it works, I want the vendor's address. Any attack subs lurking? Better watch out for any nukes from the death throes of the Bull equiteis markets. We don't want out little yellow ( gold ) submerisible lifeboat too close to the action today. As I recall, if you dive deep enough, all is calm even if there is a typhoon on the surface.

Hope you have your gold rocket ready for launch in tube 1.

You make a very good point about Starr. It's one that bothers me too. I keep getting mixed signals with this Clinton thing. What could have been much worse for him is being turned into just a matter of a sexual escapade and defused. Perhaps many will actually end up feeling sorry for the way his privacy and dirty laundry have been dragged out into the open for public consumption.

When politicans point, they always point AWAY from something. Everyone is now pointing extremely hard at Clinton. This worries me.

Jin: Hope you are not caught up in the trouble. Please post when you can. We miss your missives, and we want to know all is well.

Will Clinton's demise be known as Fornigate?

Gollum: Good point. I'll bet that the comeback kid is getting desperate. I don't think he has ever confronted a personal crisis of this magnitude. Nearly insurmountable. As I recall, Nixon became unpredictable, but as we know did not succedd in doing something really dangerous.

We run a risk of something really unfortunate happening, given the power that WJC has at his fingertips. And -- he is not a pro at foreign policy like Nixon was.

Gold jumped last time due to short covering prompted by margin call problems out of the Russian collapse and the 519 point fall in the DOW. Because of the it's rise during the time of grat market uncertainty it picked up some good press and attracted some buying. We shall see at least a little more speculative buying as the market recommences it's bear action.

The big story in the final unwinding of the great bull of the 90's, though isn't going to be the stock market or the gold market. It's going to be the flight from bonds and treasuries scheduled for early next year. More on that later...

" Will Clinton's demise be known as Fornigate? "....

I don't think so..... more like....

ELECTED BY AMERICANS GATE.....

Gollum: I agree that this aging bull market will not go quietly, and that the second stage is likely to involve the US dollar and treasuries.

However, I suspect that the current turmoil in the US will scare of much new foreign investment -- unless our presidential crisis is resolved fairly soon. Notice that the US dollar is down this AM?

The question for gold is: Will the pressure to raise cash be felt more by gold shorts or by the longs? This week may tell us.

All: According to Kitco, gold bullion is up several dollars. Perhaps this time gold stocks will go up, not down. If we have market turmoil, rather than total collapse, gold equities will do fine. Hope so.

They always pump hardest when DerArkanfuror speaks.

BRAZIL.......

Gold production per annum, approx 2.5 million ounces from 29 gold mining districts....

Do you know of any activities concerning the BIS and Brazil....
have the BIS recently ( during the last quarter ) "held" gold on behalf of Brazil ??

Japan:
It looks like it has exhausted all avenues to get out of its slump. With a banking system teetering on collapse with very low interest rates of 0.25% and a confused yen, the inevitable shall happen.

US:
Normally, the $ is strengthened but not now. The outcome of the IMF's grip on the situations in Latin America, which has been weakened by poor funding and the threats of currency and capital controls, will put a damper on the perceived strength of the $. Clinton's impeachment also does not help. Falling $ and stock prices will be double whammy for foreigners as capitals flee overseas.

The situation is not unlike D-Day when soldiers were pinned down on the beach and cut to pieces. Someone must take out of actions those "German guns". That I believe is Gold.
It is sad that we, the inhabitants of this world choose to live like this.
Sometimes when I think of God and things like that, I marvel at creations and the orderliness of itall.

Would someone be kind enough to post a reference site where one might follow options volitility, aka the VIX, please?

tia

Duke

A question.....

If the funds of the IMF are now being restricted by congress, and should the Japanese decide to sell a portion or indeed all of their US Treasury Bonds..............who is going to bail out the US$, the IMF ?

upon the wall of kitco clearly fortold, documented and filed for all to
see, the gut wrenching death of capitalism, the sword is buried deep
in the beast, its entrails drag in the dust as its soul wills it back to the
battle, the wall hits as it stumbles to its new beginning, it takes out
the point of singularity and catapaults itself back into matter, a different
beast a colder climate.

gold still in downtrend, I revere my ancestors,

I wanna get my money back and a little interest just to sweeten it.Today we will see if Monika was good to keep a hard man down.Or was that hard to keepa good man down? Off to my job to pay for my losses.

Glenn says gold going to $225. Think I'll short a bunch. Not! His gold forecasts as extreme as Steve Puetz's stock market projections. He was bearish at the last bottom.

Shepler expects tradable bear market rally after hard downs Monday and Tuesday. Buy Rosh Hasona sell Yum Kippu.


SHEPLER MARKET TIMER
for 9/21/98

Current Position: Rydex Ursa fund since 8/12/98
Purchase NAV: 10.24 ( split adjusted )
Current NAV as of 9/18/98 close: 10.78

Return on current trade: 5.27%

Shepler Market Timer Returns since 4/8/98 inception: 16.70%
Buy and Hold S&P 500 Index Returns since 4/8/98: -7.40%


Market Commentary:

To quote from yesterday's Shepler Market Timer:

"...the market must not exceed Wednesday's highs of 1046.07 SPX,
for the bearish scenario to remain intact. A break above that level
would argue for a rally potentially lasting into month end... If we do
sell off to new lows early next week ( per our forecast ) , it is likely to
be a fifth wave low, which would be marked by numerous bullish
divergences. This would then open the door to a massive rally from early
next week until the end of the month. Remember the old adage "buy on
Rosh Hashanah, sell on Yom Kippur", well it may yet work this year."

Friday's trading saw yet another listless day for the market, with
prices trapped in a tight trading range all session. This type of
trading action is equivalent to the coiling of a spring. A great deal of
energy is built-up which is then released upon the breakout from the
trading range. Therefore, we expect an explosive move to get underway
Monday. Furthermore, we expect this explosive move to be on the
downside. To be sure, we are seeing several intermediate-term bullish
factors in our market analysis, indicating that we may be within days of
a tradeable bottom. However, within these next few days, the markets
could be subject to a very substantial downdraft. Ideally, we are
looking for a tradeable low to occur on Tuesday 9/22, but this low could
very well be several hundred Dow points below Friday's close of 7896
DJIA. In fact, the scenario we currently favor is a move below the 9/1
lows of 939.98 SPX and 7400.3 DJIA within the next 2 days. This would
require a mini-crash type price decline to occur on Monday. If this
occurs, our initial downside targets for the move will be 900-890 SPX
and 7000-6800 DJIA. So, while our long-term outlook ( 1-2 months ) remains
staunchly bearish, our intermediate-term outlook ( 1-2 weeks ) is slightly
bullish. But first we must get past the next 1-2 days, and our outlook
for this short-term timeframe is decidedly bearish.
On the bearish side, Friday produced yet another extremely high
closing TICK reading, this time a value of +971. Closing TICK readings
in this region will typically mark a short-term top of some sort. Also,
our proprietary buy/sell indicator remains on a sell trend from the sell
signal given at the close of trading Wednesday. In addition, major
declines in Asian markets Sunday night do not bode well for the open
Monday. At time of writing, the S&P futures are down 13 points on
Globex. To potentially make matters worse is the broadcast of the
Clinton videotapes Monday, which could have a negative effect on
investor confidence. Throw in the potential for enhanced volatility as a
result of thin trading conditions due to the Jewish holidays, and we
feel there is strong potential for a hard down Monday.
However, we expect that a much better short-term buying opportunity
may present itself by Tuesday or Wednesday at the latest. Our
proprietary buy/sell indicator, while currently on a sell signal, is
getting very close to the buy zone, and could issue a buy signal as
early as Tuesday's close. Also, market internals have been improving of
late. While Friday only saw a .12% gain in the S&P 500 index, the
Russell 2000 index saw a gain of 2.24%. Also breadth was very strong at
1894 advancers to 1110 decliners, especially considering that the Dow
only gained 22 points and the S&P 500 only gained 1.22 points. So, the
broader market is starting to outperform the blue-chips. This is a
somewhat hopeful indication, and suggests that a potential move to new
lows by the blue-chip indices, in the early part of this week, would be
unconfirmed by the broader market. If this occurs we would have enough
bullish divergences in place to support a strong rally into month-end,
before expected October weakness sets in. Regardless of how strong a
rally we see between now and month-end, we must remember that it will be
a bear market rally and nothing more. The continuing weakness in new
highs vs. new lows will confirm that this is the case. Friday's new
highs remained mired in bear market depths at 26 issues, while new lows
remained dangerously high at 155 issues. As long as these numbers remain
this weak, we will remain convinced that the bull is dead.
Market sentiment also supports our current outlook. The 5-day OEX
put/call ratio increased to 1.37 Friday, a bullish indication for the
intermediate-term. But the 1-day OEX put/call ratio fell to 1.15, a
neutral reading which supports the potential for further decline in the
short-term. The Rydex ratio also fell to 135%, a high reading by bull
market standards, but inconclusive by bear market standards.
Fund switchers, we remain in the current Ursa trade, expecting a
potential tradeable low on Tuesday 9/22. If we are wrong and the market
rallies instead on Monday, we will switch to cash on any move above the
9/16 highs of 1046.07 SPX. For short-term options traders, we will exit
puts on any rally above 1030 SPX. If the market sells-off Monday, we
will look to hold puts into the expected low on Tuesday, but will take
profits on 50% of our put position at 920 SPX, and the remainder at 890
SPX if these levels are reached on Monday.

http://www.bis.org/press/index.htm

http://www.securitytrader.com/daily/9-18%20XAU%20-%20daily.gif

Thank you, on behalf of all Kitcoites, for your glowing ode to our spirits. Yes, we are indeed a fine, chivalrous, witty and perceptive bunch, aren't we? And humble too.

However you are wrong about us witnessing the "death of Capitalism." And George Soros is wrong as well. Capitalism in its pure form exists nowhere in this world, because every government has seen fit to tamper with every economy, and therein lies the seed of disaster. You cannot eat a meal with just a "little" poison. You will get sick, if not die. Take a well earned vacation and read Ayn Rand's "Capitalism, the Unknown Ideal"

Never confuse Fascism and /or a mixed economy for Capitalism. You have been brainwashed by the ignorant and the mendacious - the mendacious are the politicians who would enslave you, and the ignorant are the media who think superficially and accept the ignorance or lies of others as the truth, and pass it along.

You are a Kitcoite...you are BETTER than that. Now go and read Ayn Rand. There will be a test on Friday.

Duke - try this link and enter VIX.X in the symbols box

http://fast.quote.com/fq/quotecom/livechart?mode?symbols=

Compare the peaks on this chart

http://tiger.golden.net/laird/TimeXAU.htm

with those on HM and ASA on Jeil's projections......perhaps Friday ( or today ) is a significant turning point.

http://www.pcis.net/jeannev/jeil.htm

I remembered when at the height of the Asian crisis in 1997, a nice and beautiful lady at Credit Suisse Bank in Singapore 'posted' a question at me. I saw you quite often buying physical gold. What up?
I told her that far from the risk of the S$ going down the chute, I am more concern about the coming Euro and the US$. The latter has been acting like a "blackhole""The US$ is strong in gold." She laughed. I dared not asked her why she laughed. Was I referring to her "blackhole"? On hindsight I thought it both.

The coming serious rebound in oil ( after the turn of '99 ) , like all commodity plays, will raise all boats in the field ( or ocean, to mix metaphors ) . Two shares I would suggest you be accumulating now are CRK and TMAR. If you insist on shares under a dollar, look at WPOG. You are correct in thinking that these shares will act much like gold shares in response to a recovery in their underlying commodity price. Also, as a peripheral play, look at EEC - pollution control systems and technology, and heavily into the energy field. A recovery in energy means a recovery here. Cheap, nice price chart ( could fall a tad more, but looking for a bottom ) and excellent astrologicals ahead. Decent fundamentals as well.

Good Luck and welcome!

http://www.intersurf.com/%7Evor/golde.html

Globex strongly down. PM's up. Oil mixed. Dollar down and Yen down. Bonds up.

After fooling around with planes and subs, I'm beginning to be tempted to try a new experiment. What if we took one of those big saturn rockets and launched it - - nose down.

In any case, we are about to go even further into uncharted waters, ubcharted by anyone except for a few oldsters still around who dimly remember the great bears of the past. Certainly something new for the wet behind the ears fund managers of today. These are the times that separate the men from the boys.

Sex, lies, and video tape or wag the dog. Uncharted waters for the politico's too.

Care to take another shot at where we will be 15 minutes into the market. My $0.10 ( 0.065 CDN ) says that we will be poking -200

Of course my guesses are never even close...

Hey dude, for the third time, please how does one sign up for Shepler
market timer? Any web page? Thanks.....

September 21, 1998

Group to protest at Geneva talks on globalisation

GENEVA, Sept 21 ( Reuters ) - A Swiss-based group campaigning against free trade and a new world investment agreement said on Monday it would hold a "resistance festival" this week against a Geneva gathering of international business and trade figures.

De Marcellus accused the ICC of being "an organisation of hidden control of the world economy" which had drafted "the most scandalous provisions" of a proposed agreement between some of the world's richer countries on investment rules.

In May, de Marcellus' "Geneva Coordinating Committee against the MAI" was the main organiser of several days of protest against a ministerial meeting of the World Trade Organisation ( WTO ) , which brought unusual scenes of mayhem to Geneva.
http://www.freecartoons.com/ReutersNews/TRADE-PROTEST.html

Silverbaron, much obliged. Thanks for the site.

September 21, 1998

Militia figure ( Bo ) Gritz found shot in Idaho

OROFINO, Idaho ( AP ) -- James ( Bo ) Gritz, a former Green Beret colonel and leader of the so-called Patriot Movement, was hospitalized with an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Gritz ran for president in 1992 and is a leader of the so-called Patriot Movement, which rails against a purported United Nations-led "New World Order" and accuses the government of corruption and violence.

http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.Gritz-Shot.html

Whale:

We will have to pay for it starting in October. I will post ordering instructions shortly. $19.95 per month if memory serves.

OK. I pick -239

Thanks!! Look forward to it, ie: Shepler Market Timer........

You have to hand it to those hedge funds and other big gold and silver shorts - they don't scare easily. Here the finacial world is just about in free fall and $300 gold and $5.25 silver might as well be as far away as the moon Gollum's Saturn missle might normally be intended for.

Notice that Platinum, perhaps the most industrial sensitive of the metals is down a cool $5 going into the NY opening. I guess its the slow down in Japan and falling jewlry demand. Looked at a chart of PT in yen earlier today and this move is a complete breakdown of a consolidation area following a triple top.

What I want to know is where is the T Bonds equivalent to Gold's Kitco. I want the URL or rather - wish I had had it. Suspect old Warren Buffett wishes he'd kept his zero coupon bonds and thought twice about buying silver. Can you imagine what the price would be if he hadn't sopped up 120 million oz.

Bonds 130 before gold 300.10?????

Tomorrow is the 22nd.

This isn't an exploration play, but is a VERY serious cash cow. P/E and P/D about 3 !!! No debt, and a partial tax benefit on dividends for coal gas.

Torch Energy Royalty Trust Units ( TRU )

trades on NASDAQ as GRERF.Aug 27 2nd qrtr report is avaiable

Answer: A bigger crisis than the one he's in. Now ladies and gents, what could be that looming crisis on the horizon that no one is looking at because they're watching the Sex, Lies, and Video Tape testimony scheduled for 9:00 A.M. EDT?

A market crash? A nice little war somewhere? Hmmmm. Gollum, I still say you should take that tank out for a spin.... I understand that those 120 mm H.E.A.T. rounds are way cool... or are they 155mm smooth bores now? Ah, what the hell! Just shove'em in the barrel and fire!

Mid October shall bring another decision point. Will the markets finally turn up after having bottomed, or will we continue even deeper into the darkness?

http://www.mrci.com/correl/lbrc004.htm
http://www.mrci.com/correl/lbrc007.htm

Who touched Europe.

Can you jog the frames and make them update....COMEX opening in 5 min.

thanx..in advance...

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/current/calendar.htx?source=core/dbc

LONDON ( AP ) -- Share prices on the London Stock Exchange were down at midday Monday. The Financial Times-Stock Exchange 100-share index was down 115.5 points at 4,940.1.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn0h.htm
--
You know it's ugly when that's all the AP wire says.

You got that right. They don't scare easily. After years and years of continued success through ups and downs, they have the felling this is just another temporary down and even more is to be made by staying the course.

The manufacturing sector is the same way. They've had to cut their profit margins to the bone to even hope to compete against the cheap foreign competition. They haven't cut employment much yet though. The hope is that this is a temporary condition and they may have to eat a bad quarter or two, but be ready to resume when things get back to "normal".

It's kind of like the way prices will run up on a stock due to speculative interest and then just hang there while everyone waits to see if new money will come in or not.

We're about to quit hanging.

I'm saving the tank for when things get REALLY bad.

What do you know about Greenstone?? Any good?? Do they really have the properties they say they do. ???? Will they be able to increse production on their time table????

NADAQ symbol is GRERF.

just his 5.096....down .04...flight to "safety" continues...can POG be far behind??

I wonder what the pressure rating on the yellow sub's hull is?

While my gut tells me that upcoming historic events bode well for an
upward spiral in gold prices, all the charts I've seen here seem to
point down.
Rhody recently stated that gold is not a market, but a manipulation.
Could it be that the chartists have merely been mapping the manipulations
and that the manipulators are running out of ammo?
I love charts and graphs, but how valid are they when compiled outside
of a free market scenario?
Gold is an air filled yellow ballon. Efforts to keep it underwater are
becoming quite strenuous for those who must try to keep it submerged.

It's Time...... Go Gold

Take'r down Cap'n

now 5.089...historic...!! Panic""

Charts are kind of like hedges. They work pretty good during fairly normal times. Once things get out into the uncharted territories though anything can happen..and usually does.

US DEBT: Having already started the European day well-bid on slumping
international equity prices, US Treasuries jumped predictably and the yield
curve continued to steepen on this morning's downgrade of Japan's foreign
currency credit rating by Fitch IBCA. The US 30-year bond continues to
extend to new record low yields, trading at around 1055 GMT at 5.095%,
while S&P 500 Dec futures were flirting with the 27-point limit-down level
in GLOBEX trade.

http://www.cnnfn.com/markets/bridge_news/80.1.html

Just hanging, watching this thing too closely, often make a mistiake in doing so.

I don't know . . . it just seem to me like the metals have it. This might be a very good time to move to the side lines. The positives for the metals are so well advertised here, yet we have short covering open interest declines goin' on in silver and gold - no new money coming in.

How many times have we seen this before. Tuesday, or today the stock market will turn around the dollar will rally, the yen will fall and gold will be five dollars lower in a shot and we'll be looking for support levels cheer leading each other on..

Something fundlemental to the closure of the hedge fund gold and silver short positions has to happen before we're going to see and convincing rally and the attraction therefore of new money.

The big money is going into short term paper. Look at the Eurodollar rates the 5 yr. bonds.

Disagree - the big "herd" might be going short-term paper, the big "money" is going cheap "stuff", PM included. Buy low.

a new financial crisis is about to pop up. Well, one is brewing- made to order just for you:


Latin American Financial Crisis

Could Brazil Go the Way of Russia?

fears of a collapse in the real

WASHINGTON - ''The Rubicon'' is what William Rhodes, vice chairman of Citicorp, calls Brazil.

It is a metaphor that dramatizes an intensive effort under way to keep the global financial crisis from inundating the Brazilian economy - which has suffered an alarming outflow of funds this month - and rampaging through the rest of Latin America.

For officials of the Clinton administration and the International Monetary Fund, who are leading the defensive stand, what is at stake is whether the crisis can finally be beaten back - or whether it will explode with more destructive fury than ever.

Few stops are being left unpulled by the forces seeking to shield the Latin economies from the selling panics that have overwhelmed stock and currency markets in Asia and Russia.

The IMF, despite being financially strapped after committing tens of billions of dollars for bailouts in Asia, has declared its willingness to support deserving Latin governments with its available cash reserves, which the Fund puts at about $9 billion. To pack additional punch behind that offer, the United States and other governments said last week that they stand ready to provide $15 billion more to the IMF through an emergency line of credit.

The World Bank, which normally lends only for specific purposes, such as road construction or health care, has pledged to be a ''significant contributor in any international package'' for Brazil. A major organization of international banks said Wednesday that many of its members would lend vast sums to Brazil if asked.

But it is unclear whether all these gauzy promises will help calm markets unnerved by Russia's default on its debt last month and worries about Brazil's own looming debt obligations - about $70 billion in short-term debt comes due this month and next.

The offers of aid have gone unaccepted by President Fernando Henrique Cardoso, who is running in an Oct. 4 election and is trying to demonstrate that his government can turn around the country's fortunes with its own policy moves - such as jacking up interest rates to 50 percent - to make Brazilian investments more attractive.

Many market analysts fret that investor confidence in Brazil could evaporate quickly without a formal IMF package. The country's stock market has swung wildly in recent days as hopes for international loans soar and ebb.

What nobody questions is that a financial debacle in Brazil, especially now, could produce a disastrous impact far beyond the country's borders. Among U.S. government and IMF officials, the fear is that a collapse in Brazil's currency, the real, could trigger a bout of financial ''contagion'' that would dwarf almost everything that has come before.

Argentina, which sells about one-third of its exports to Brazil, would be vulnerable to a massive flight of capital should its giant neighbor falter. Strange as it might seem, those two tumbling dominoes could deal a crowning blow to Hong Kong, because the Hong Kong dollar is rigidly linked to the U.S. dollar in the same manner that the Argentine peso is - and the result would almost certainly be a new downward spiral in Asian markets.

Such a nightmare scenario ''is on people's minds. It has to be,'' said John Boorman, director of the IMF's Policy Development and Review Department.

The effort to stave off that possibility has become daunting in recent weeks. About $13 billion has flowed out of Brazil this month, although the pace diminished late last week to a couple of hundred million dollars a day. Ecuador was forced to devalue its currency last Monday, and Colombia did the same less than two weeks before.

Fueling those developments was a general stampede from emerging markets after the Russian default and an announcement by Malaysia earlier this month that it was slapping controls over the flow of capital across its borders.

''These unilateral actions raised fundamental questions in the eyes of many lenders and investors about what the rules are internationally,'' said Charles Dallara, managing director of the Institute of International Finance, an organization of banks and other financial institutions that invest in emerging markets. ''We have a new generation of fund managers who pull money in from institutional investors and retail investors - and they're saying, 'If this is what emerging markets are about, why do I need it?'''

Alarmed by the seemingly indiscriminate dumping of emerging-market stocks and bonds, Washington has sought to convince the markets that the Latin Americans, with their broad commitment to market-oriented economic reform, have no business being lumped in with Russia.

At a special IMF conference of Latin finance ministers earlier this month, Fund officials lauded the region for its economic accomplishments - Mexico's budgetary austerity, for example; Argentina's rock-solid currency; Brazil's industrial restructuring and low inflation.

But the trouble is, Brazil in particular shares some of the fiscal problems that got Moscow into trouble, even though it also enjoys many strengths - such as a relatively strong banking system - that set it well apart from Russia. Brazil's budget deficit totals more than 7 percent of gross domestic product, and the government has huge short-term debts coming due.

With its markets under selling pressure and the government forced to raise interest rates, Brazil now faces the same sort of vicious cycle Russia did - borrowing at ever-higher rates to pay off debt coming due. The higher borrowing costs only add to the deficit and make investors even more unwilling to keep their money in the country.

''It's a question of confidence,'' said Citicorp's Mr. Rhodes. If Brazil can swiftly convince investors that it is not going to go the way of, say, Indonesia or Thailand, it can reap the advantages of a virtuous cycle as interest rates come down and the fiscal outlook improves.

All that may happen after the election, if Mr. Cardoso - who enjoys a big lead in the polls - is returned to office and, with the support of the IMF, begins implementing a major pruning of the budget that he has been hinting at.

But the markets, which have seen Brazil's Congress thwart one budgetary initiative after another, are skeptical.

International Herald Tribune, September 21, 1998

We have had years of gold carry trade going into treasuries. We have had yen carry trade going into treasuries. We have had globaly panicked flight money going into treasuries. The fever pitch is being stirred up to an orgasmic climax with Monica gate and the falling stock markets.

There is a growing possibility that the Fed may lower rates later in the year or early next year either in response to global conditions or in response to slowing US economy brought on by global coditions which has added even more speculative interest.

The total capitalization of the bond markets even in normal times is some 200 times the capitalization of the equity markets.

When the tide turns, everyone is going to try to get out the door at the same time.

The US may lower short term rates, but no one is going to be able to hold long term rates down when that time comes.

The bonds are no longer a safe place to be. Nor are stocks. Nor is the dollar. Nor is perhaps any currency.

What's left? All together now...

on Greenstone R. as to properties etc. Have followed it since an article i Globe and Mail ( canada ) last summer. It seems to be an 'honest' company
and as such its stock seems to multiply much better than such as ABX. My impression is ( having only been a goldbug for 9 months ) that if and when gold hits 300, GRE will be well double and probably triple the CDN2.75 it was on friday. www.greenstone.ca. I will check further, just purchased lots.

I think you are right. It all depends on new money coming in. And THAT all depends on how badly things go in the markets today and tomorrow. If declines are no worse than two or three hundred points and the public reaction to the Clinton tapes are not so bad, we will see a recovery in the markets later in the week and a drop, possibly a severe drop, in the metals.

If declines are severe enough to raise the spectre of mor hedge fund margin calls, however, we may well see more money coming in.

Whoever it is that starts pushing metals prices down starting about a half hour before the equities markets open, is having some trouble this morning.

If the funds of the IMF are now being restricted by congress, and should the Japanese

decide to sell a portion or indeed all of their US Treasury Bonds..............who is going

to bail out the US$, the IMF ?

I believe the US 'bubble economy' is created in Japan through the yen-carry trade. Japan must get its gold soon either through selling a portion or indeed all of their US Treasury Bonds or indirectly through the Euro route. There is nothing Japan can do to prevent the collapse of its financial institutions under present $ system .How to get max value out of this is beyond me. Once this get underway, the recapitalisation of Japan can begin.

The Euro and the unwinding of the yen-carry will challenge the supremacy of the $. Other carry trades will fall in a domino fashion.

The US at present 'force-feed' the world with $ through the IMF. This is akin to monetasing the American's debts outside of the US. She has become the 'lender of last resort'. But the Malaysian experiment has put a damper to all that. From now countries will resort to capital controls when realizations set in that there are no way that they can be bail out. George Soros is worried!

The Euro will be floated at par to the $ on 1.1999.If the $ is not 'strong in gold or oil', she is finished.

That is why the US does not sell its gold but encourages other to sell their gold. In this 'battle of the giant', only time will tell its outcome.

To answer your Q., who is going to bail the US$:

No one is going to bail out the U$. It is important that she remember that $ is at present the reserved currency of the world. She must behave in such a way as befit its status, failing that her gold will decide the ultimate value via other currencies. The day the Euro is strong in gold & oil is the day the $ fall in earnest.

Live coverage of The Video Tape being inserted in to the video tape machine. See it now. :- ) )

I wonder if I should install mining equipment and a drilling head on the yellow sub?

If there is a PPT it's got some real problems this morning. Most of it's funds are needed for South America ( Steve in TO's 8:52 ) , but friend Bill will be on the air as the markets open. What to do? What to do?

how someone as inept as Clinton could beat someone like G. Bush?

Remember- Clinton may be inept in his personal life, and inept at things like foreign policy, but he's not inept at everything. In fact he's very astute at politics- he's the first president since Harding who is both corrupt and has no skills other than politics. All of the other ones were good for at least one other thing besides getting elected.

You were right about Perot. He siphoned off a lot of Bush's support in a classic vote-splitting move. In fact both Bush in '92 and Dole in '96 would have won if all Perot's voters had voted Republican instead.

Bush also made a huge tactical mistake, though. The mini-recession that began in '90 had the voters concerned. Bush tried to capitalize on his Gulf War popularity, his foreign policy successes, and on Clinton's sleaziness, which was known even then. He just didn't "get it" that the only thing voters wanted to hear about during that election was the economy.

American voters have a touchingly naive way of believing that policitcians will actually do what they promise to do during their campaigns. Clinton hammered the point home again and again that he was going to "fix the economy" and "save Social Security" and even though he was a known liar, the people voted him in. In his campaign War Room there really was a sign posted saying "It's the economy, stupid" reminding his staff to focus on the economy and ignore the stuff the voters weren't interested in.

Dick Morris was his political advisor at the time- and when the "recession," if it can be called that, ended and the bullish trend reasserted itself he noted that the electorate was becoming more Republican in outlook. Dick Morris then told Clinton to shift and actually implement the economic program Bush and the congressional Republicans had been proposing, and then take credit for it- which Clinton did successfully.

Morris's advice definitely was the deciding factor in Clinton's '96 win- but it cost the congressional Democrats mightily.

Everything Clinton does is oriented around getting himself elected. It has nothing to do with a core belief or desire to good for his country. He has no concern with the fortunes of other politicians in his party. He will tell anyone exactly what they want to hear to get their vote. I suppose this whole affair will be a catharsis of sorts for the American populace- they will realize that you do have to evaluate people carefully.

- Steve

Kitco slowing down again. Klinton looks like he's sitting on
a block of ice.

Install a $$$ printing press in the sub. It's the only tool needed to ensure financial survival. Everybody's doing it....print money!

It will be Sept 22nd somewhere upon this Earth until it ends 48 hours later, also in the mid-Pacific.

Dismiss rumors, opinions, forcasts and predictions.

Facts are facts. Perhaps you'll find this one, too?

...just a note from your friend...
got gold?

At the end of the first ten minutes.

At the end of the first fifteen minutes. PMF is closer.

Some would argue whether it's exactly 48 hours or not. I guess that depends on whether time is quantized or not. If it is, you have to subtract about 10 to the minus 23 seconds.

Now we wait. The market didn't fall so awfully badly. There are now LOTS of day traders on the short side. If new selling does not come in they will unwind by the end of the day.

Alltogether I see ominous portent for gold and silver.....

Would you please "Jog" or "Jiggle" the frames Pleeeaaaaswe....tia

Dow is not crashing, the worst is yet to come from the Clinton tapes but so far its boring and he is doing pretty well. His supporterts will find lots to applaud. A gold and silver failure here will be horrible.

Reduced mining share exposure, already today.

Stock market is going to rally, if not today by end of day tomorrow.

The end of the world has been postponed/

Thanx

Forget about the markets ... USD collapsing versus Dmark and Swiss franc.

Market has gone into a very narrow trading range just below 7750. Metal stocks looking weak for the moment, but the physical is showing signs of strength... This could get VERY interesting.

take a look at DROOY ... up 3/16 to 1/4....~7-10% this morning...Bond yields and dollar in panic mode...spot gold still holding up 1.70
interesting 1st hour

If you are long the Dec SnP or E-Mini from 1000 or lower ( 9/21 5:24 ) move your stop up to one tick below the morning lows. The Dec SnP could move back up to 1050-1060 by next week. I,m long from 1001.50.

on the hourly chart. This could be a sell sign...take care

I also count 3 waves on this move.

DOW making a strong comeback. Physical metals still looking pretty good...

Twisting in the wind. Something VERy unseemly about listening to the President of the United States, talking in great detail about this "affair"...nonetheless, who is to blame that we are allin this situation?

Than ...and Now......

I was never alone with Monica....... We were alone 10 or 15 times

We never had a sexual relationship...... OK, maybe we sorta did

I didn't discuss her testimony with her..... We chatted briefly about it

I didn't try and influence her........ I didn't want her to talk about it

I didn't help her with a job.......... Uh, I think Vernon did that

I understand what "sexual relationship" means......My attorney said it..

I didn't ask for gifts back....... Uhhhh, who's Betty Curie?

summary;

I was truthful in my answers....... I was truthful in my answers......

Agree with the things I'm seeing here but can't help but get that "when everybody thinks something is going to happen" kind of feeling. Looking at specific stocks I've been tracking, they've all been flat through the rallies or slightly up, and they've all tanked during the drops. Can dismiss that easy enough, but when you've got a stock sitting at 82 down from 120, PUT options for Jan@70 are selling for 1 1/2, and calls for Jan@100 are selling for 3 1/2! you've just gotta sit back and wonder just a little bit.

Worst of Clinton's testimony has got to yet be played. Obviously the market thinks he's coming off pretty well so far. The news summaries will build the case against Clinton better than the viewers can discern from watching.

CNN says Clinton falling into prosecutoer's trap -"not a very good witness"

See another test down on the DOW???

Metals starting to weaken??

DOW quivering around the 7800 level. Strangely even when spot prices and PM stocks were down the December futures continued to hold. Why would anybody want to buy futures in the face of declining prices?

Spot prices coming back up a little now.

Clinton...."No sir, it is accurate depending on the tense...I was not having a sexual relationship...not at that specific time, during that hour in front of the court...nope, they donm't have tape of me doing it in front of them do they? I was truthful, I was NOT having a sexual relationship at THAT time..."

( Clinton...how stupid do you think you're electorate is? Oh yes, I forgot, we elected you KNOWIng what a sleaze you were.....we ARE pretty stupid at that... )

After weeks of work, my best conservative estimate of RANGY's NAV is $1.68....trading for 5/8. What am I missing?

http://www.geocities.com/~polarbear47/spreadsheet.htm

Newly updated RANGY spreadsheet. Rangy investors can download the XLS file to do your own figuring.

Updated several other sections too.

http://www.geocities.com/~polarbear47/rangy.htm

You just know that had to hurt.

Austria 1073.29 -32.34 -2.93%
Belgium 3008.35 -70.31 -2.28%
Denmark 183.71 -11.95 -6.11%
Finland 3879.51 -211.15 -5.16%
France 3339.96 -125.26 -3.61%
Germany 4433.87 -164.71 -3.58%
Hungary 3775.02 -387.06 -9.30%
Italy 18520 -672 -3.50%
Netherlands 902.62 -56.95 -5.93%
Norway 867.67 -38.84 -4.28%
Portugal 4329.02 -270.41 -5.88%
Slovakia 109.88 +0.30 +0.27%
Spain 649.06 -37.95 -5.52%
Sweden 2730.09 -65.42 -2.34%
Switzerland 6013.0 -329.7 -5.20%

Gold will stay flat....the DOW will start coming back off it's early AM lows.Why? Because the market is relieved that when the "worst" happens...it's just about sex, lying, perjury, subornation, obstruction. No big deal.They'll like these tapes. The reality won't be as harsh as the hype was...for now.

Note to Janet Reno...what is it Clinton promised you in order to prevent an Independant COunsel for campaign contribution crimes and sale of influence? How many more "Contempt of COngree" citations would you like to receive?

and their quick take away impression is of a guy who made a mistake but who is really a pretty good man.....

the republicans are going to back away from pressing this issue of impeachment. If the woman of america are going to forgive him, congressman are not going to push impeachemnt and there won't be enough votes in the Seante to impeach.

Bottom line he is guilty, the public is sympathetic and doesn't want an impeachment, a deal will be struck and everybody will breath a sigh of relief, and the market will rally.

Revising my forecast:

DOW will finish up 100 points, today

volatilities........
http://www.cyberramp.net/~chrismc/futopt.htm
try it....not sure if it is what you had in mind.
away...


DOW still floating around 7800 +/- 30, PM futures now dropping.

Thanks for the Reichsbankmarks!!! Wow! Got 'em last week ( don't go by the POBox like I should and haven't seen yer in these parts recently ) . Your generosity is much appreciated. If its all just the same the ones you sent will be quite sufficient ( along with the xerox copies of the 100,000,000 note ) .

Paper at its finest, folks.

BTW I was thinking that possibly RR&AG were hoping to convince BOJ to hyperinflate the Yen but they declined. It seems that people who have a decently stable currency consider their reputation more important then their 'system' per se. Maybe they are opting for a deflationary spiral which at least will bottom out somewhere, then a hyperinflation to which there is no limit.

Also - After looking, the European markets that I've checked aren't doing the DOW shuffle, they're all headed down in an obvious trend, all bolding pushing into fresh new lows with the occasional rally. Just something to keep in mind.

As predicted a few minutes earlier....

Monday September 21, 11:13 am Eastern Time

Dow recovers some losses, takes Clinton in stride

NEW YORK, Sept 21 ( Reuters ) - Wall Street stocks bounced off their lows in late-morning trade Monday
but remained down sharply on renewed concern about economic turmoil abroad.

Analysts said the broadcast of President Clinton's grand jury testimony yielded no surprises to further
upset an already nervous stock market. ``The fact is, the markets have already discounted a good portion of this Clinton problem,'' said Peter
Cardillo, director of research at Westfalia Investments.

The Dow industrials were down 101 points at 7794, retracing nearly half of a morning slide that took the index down 180 points.

``I thought that once we actually got through the ( Clinton ) tape we'd see some sort of recovery,'' Cardillo said. ``Right now, the real keynote
is Japan.''

The breakdown of a compromise aimed at stabilizing Japan's banks continued to weigh on world markets. The collapse of the deal drove the
Nikkei average to a 12-year low and triggered selling around the globe.

U.S. Treasuries remained a beneficiary of the tentative tone in equity markets.

Some keep thinking that the market is just waiting to bounce back. Maybe that is conditioning from the bull market of the past few years. Why be eagar to jump back in with earnings reports in from of us.
Regarding Wall Street Week, did you notice that Martin Zweig switched to neutral, saying that once we have had a crash such as this, then the market tends to go sideways for 4 to 6 months.
So, I wouldn't hold my breath looking for the market to come charging back. Maybe for a day or two.

Highhopes

I'm curious if the anti- cyanide crowd is showing any commercials on
television for the NOv 1 election. Trying to get a feel if they have
enough money to pull this off or whether I should unload my CAU

still very drunk...and doing eveything to remain such...ROR...if this be your poster child your/ror concept was birthed stillborn...couple more potatos and we shall throw it out with the bath water...uh huh...

The stock market should go through the roof. There is certainly
nothing wrong with oral sex in the crack house with a intern old
enough to be your daughter, or adultry why everyone does it!
Lying to a grand jury, no one should have to tell the truth to
silly ass federal grand jury anyway. The American people? lie to
them too their just a bunch of sheep, just tell them anything.
After all Clinton didn't commit murder.

"All of this money, of course, going into the bond market" - CNBC

jammin to S. R. Vaughn...glad to know you are back...a special toast to ya...gulp...you always have a home at the Island that is Long...uh huh...

http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/

Still holding around 7800. Waiting for the final hour...

New message from ANOTHER at http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/

there are some darn fine folks there and I call them friends...yup...just a thought I hope you will take to heart and hold onto...

darn good folks...yup...and a gulp to them...

looks to be making a NICE pattern.

BUY..... ( or sell ) ......the breakout. I have bought today. I don't like crowds. Of course, stops are in place. Can it......will it?.....go lower???!? Hmmmmmmm... tick-tock, tick-tock......the silver mouse is gettin' ready to run up the clock............. ( ? ) .

aWAY$.....to w/w

uyorye

Two men went into the temple to pray. One said, God forgive me, I have a broken spirit, I repent. The other said, Thank you God that I am not like that despicable president over there.

Which man showed moral leadership???

tolerant1@msn.com this is for you to send me your address...a sombrero and bottle of tequila will be on it's way...

Hope gold holds up. Irregardless of the Clinton effect, the situation worldwide is so grim, I wouldn't be predicting much of a DOW rally. I'd say a blip up month end Sept 30, Oct 1 maybe, but then a lull re-inforced by tax selling. Does anyone think that people have lost so much on their stock holdings to be taking tax selling hits this fall? It looks like the DOW is about even with where it was in January this year, however if people bought AFTER that ( as it topped ) they got hit.
I thought the democrats would get rid of Clinton, but perhaps they are more afraid of what would happen to their party if Gore got scrutinized. It seems to have been taken in stride--no surprises, but the surprise will really be how much worse the world situation could get regarding the Japanese economy, Hong Kong, China and the Southeastern Asian nations. Hope we get some tax cuts worldwide and that there is really a gold shortage brewing. Don't forget--isn't it the end of 98 that Euro CB's will have to stop their dumping of gold? Is anyone reading Veneroso's book and/or his statistics? I hear he isn't a bug, just sees the figures differently than most of the reports we get. Regards.

TO THE WOMEN OF AMERICA:

Please try to remember this whole scenario reverts back to the Paula Jones Case. There is no doubt in my mind that he did try to seduce PJ to perform oral sex on him. This is MO without a doubt. If he could do this to Paula he could do it to anyone of you.

He did subvert her day in court and denied her a fair trial through lies, cover up, mistruths and intimidation. Please do not defend this misfit of a man anylonger. Your future rights depend upon you taking a stance against him.

From one who respects womanhood

A quote during the infamous Watergate scandal:

"Yes, the president should resign. He has lied to the American
people,
time and time again, and betrayed their trust. He is no longer an
effective leader. Since he has admitted guilt, there is no reason to
put the American people through an impeachment. He will serve
absolutely no purpose in finishing out his term; the only possible
solution is for the president to save some dignity and resign."

- William Jefferson Clinton, 1974

SA GOLD mining companies are cheaper than
their overseas rivals, according to a study by
stockbroker BoE Securities which compares
the cash costs, including planned capital
expenditure next year, of the world's leading
gold producers.

http://www.bday.co.za/98/0914/company/e5.htm

Moving up. Last hour could easily put us back on ht plus side, maybe even as high as jims +100. Stay tuned...

Pete:

Do you have much respect for a woman who waited over 10 years to bring her outrage to a public forum?

Do you have much respect for another one who goes for whatever highest authority is available? Be it president or diet camp director?

Don't we want to draw any lines here at all?

What about respect for our constitution and the office of our elected president? Withholding respect from individuals is one thing. Letting disrespect spread beyond them seems dangerous. Presidents are men. They have human faults. The exploitation of those faults for political purposes should not be a major part of our consitutional form of government.

Do Clinton's human faults really threaten the republic?

Some very strong buying has come back into the market. Prices recovering. Does that mean the clinton tapes are done?

this grand jury crap is very light reading.....let's wait for the indictments of some of the Clittonistas....then the threat of jailtime....OH NO NOT ME!!!...deals to be cut by the boys. chirp...chirp....churp...little birdies fly awaaaaaaaaaaaay. unkept nest.

I started to respond to PH in LA but I think we all have
had arguments with people who "think" like him and it just
goes nowhere because they are using emotion and not thought.
The hyena barks yet the caravan passes. We will soon leave
the clinton in our dust.

Too bad he wont take his own advice, EH? I will be in Garmisch next monday. Will let you know address & Ph #.

Dow has moved into plus territory looking very strong. Now at the 7900 level.

Date: Mon Sep 21 1998 13:01
NightWriter ( Just fishin' for insults ) ID#390415:
"Two men went into the temple to pray. One said, God forgive me, I have a broken spirit, I repent. The other said...."


Sorry Nihjtwriter, no insults forthcoming here. But I'm confused...what president could you be referring to? The Pres. of MY country has never shown the slightest genuine remorse, apology, or broken spirit for his breaches of trust. In fact, he blames others ( Like Starr, Paula, Monica, Kathleen, Gennifer, his own attorneys, et al ad nauseum ) for his own sins.

Sure he mouths some weasle words once he's CAUGHT and his back is to the wall....but anyone who's observed the man through all his many scandals can't POSSIBLY conclude that he ever takes presonal responsibility, feels remorse, and seeks forgiveness for his deeds.

So you must be referring to the President of some OTHER country right?

Signed,

A repentant sinner.....

Clinton lied under oath. That is perjury. All else flows from this, including obstruction of justice. These are serious charges and crimes. If he is allowed to slide out of this, then the rule of law is done in this country. I might add, the destruction of the rule of law will have been done in a very public way with tacit public acceptance. The barbarians will have then won. Annie, get your gun....

Metals down sharply. DOW moving up rapidly....

Dow $TICK over +1100 $TRIN doesn't look that good, still a bear market....

Looks like we will test ~8200 on the Dow before failure. On the other hand... could be a short rest stop on the way to 1,000,000. Nah.....

aether...Oh my oootnes!that thud cannot be adjusted with your bass...nope...it is my heart beat...step outside and watch grass blades quiver...

Odin is sitting next to me and we are yaughing...THOR...will only get the Hammer back if he plays nice with the other children...

My absolute BEST to You and your Lady and the flock...MY BEST!!!

The chart and the case for the bear...

What would you consider a reasonable gift to the President to show the Republic's appreciation for the shame he has brought unto us?

I have a lot less respect for sick willie than those women you call pawns of a far right wing conspiracy. To lump all women in the same breath as the ones you denoted is disingenuous.

This man should be above the ordinary to hold the office of President. He has disgraced and defiled the office through sheer stupidity. The office he holds is all powerful and requires someone who should use above normal ethics, for our well being depends upon someone who has better control. Can you sleep well knowing that he has his finger on the button?

Has it ever occured to you that the same MO of this porno story was excercised in Whitewater, Travelgate, filegate to hide and conceal the true facts? If you believe this is not the case and that there is nothing to these gates, then there is this bridge..........

In the event that there is something to the gates, would you still defend this misfit? Wait for the latest breaking news. Grenades will be lobbed constantly and relentlessly with good reason that will show the man to be much less than he portrays.

Sick Willie is Sick Willie, not ANOTHER!

We agree to disagree

Pete

Great Idea, yes please. I look at this site once in a while to get an update about gold, and see his silly statements, and occaisional insulting remarks, only a small portion of his messages being on topic for precious metals. To me this detracts from this as a location of useful discussion. Maybe there is a cultural component to this, or else he just likes to behave in this way, but there is a lot of room for improvement.

How do you say, hmm.. aram se chello intolerant-1, tanyawad.

Two men went into the temple to pray
One said, "I made a mistake, I misled, I have a broken spirit, but I am going to fight to forestall any attempt to punish me for wrong doing. I am not going to you the truth about the rest of the woman who rejected me and whom I have tried to discredit."
The other said, I have sinned and am unworthy of your trust. I will tell you the whole truth. I accept whatever punishment Congress deems appropriate. My lawyers will shut up. My White House will shut up. I will fire anyone who has done wrong.
Which man do you believe was justified.

Looks like we made a short term low this morning. Buy Rosh Hasona sell Yum Kipper.

and so can the thugs that surround him...scared ain't on my map...Cool Hand Luke lives...yus jest don't have enough eggs...

Monday September 21 10:46 AM EDT

Blair Urges IMF, World Bank Changes

LONDON ( AP ) - Recent global economic turmoil highlights a need to reform the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, British Prime Minister Tony
Blair said today.

``The current crisis illustrates the weaknesses of the existing international financial system,'' Blair said in remarks prepared for a speech at the New York Stock
Exchange. ``It needs to be modernized to meet the challenges of a new century.''

The prime minister said it was a good time to overhaul the entire global economic system - making finance more open to lessen lending risks.

The IMF lent $25 billion over the last year as the Asian economic crisis unfolded - and it now urgently needs more money, he said.

The IMF and its sister agency, the World Bank, were created in 1944 at a conference in Bretton Woods, N.H., to help create a new economic order in the
aftermath of World War II. Critics contend the institutions have failed to keep pace with the dramatic changes in global economics.

Blair cited several priorities for a new global financial system:

-Greater openness and transparency by national governments, which will encourage them to pursue sounder monetary and fiscal policies.

-Improved financial supervision and regulation - with greater coordination among regulators in different countries as they supervise international financial
institutions. Blair said the IMF and the World Bank should also focus on the ways various countries are preparing their financial institutions for any potential
computer problems occurring in the year 2000.

-Nations must have better ways to provide short-term capital to troubled countries that are trying to shape up - something that the IMF is not equipped to do as it
negotiates loans in exchange for policy changes in affected countries.

-Massive capital flows across borders must be better assessed by regulators and lenders alike, so loans can be more appropriately priced in relation to their
riskiness.

-More accountability by the big financial institutions themselves.

The global nature of the modern economy means that any new order cannot be developed only by governments or a few rich industrialized nations, Blair said.
They will need assistance from developing nations and outside experts as well, he said.

Blair called for a new plan to be drawn up within one year ``so that we can have the reformed institutions in place before the new millennium.''

``This is not a matter for a few technical changes,'' he said. ``We should not be afraid to think radically and fundamentally. We need to commit ourselves today to
build a new Bretton Woods for the next millennium.''

( 1 ) Your man is brilliant in 'one to one's', town hall meetings and the like. Prepare testimony NOT for the IC's Grand Juror, but rather the Grand Juror of the Public. Have your man intersperse 'testimony' will allegations of persecution; have your man constantly use phrases like, "I want to tell the truth"; have your man 'hurt', 'perplexed' but always concerned with the good folks like Ms. Currie; have your man answer no question tersely, rather using long, convoluted obfuscation.

( 2 ) When the evidence is handed over to the Congress, start the campaign to withhold the video evidence that you WISH to have released. Moan and whimper about unfairness, build-up an expectation of Great Awfulness, sit back and await your well earned victory.

( 3 ) Democrats are shrewder than Republicans the talking points they ( Dems ) released after the four hour ordeal are on a blank piece of paper. The Republican Talking Points are on a Republican letterhead and labeled "Talking Points".

Panda@legal.system One suspects this four-hour tape will end up as a "How to" in the 'best' law schools. Because it isn't about JUSTICE it is about WINNING...

We must content ourselves in having Clinton leave office when he is scheduled to leave office. And pray that he does hold to that 'agreement'.

All: I will post later -- still don't have Win95 on work computer.

With regard to the markets, it must be due to WJC-related information overload, or the PPT, or both. My guess is that it will take weeks to months for the real impact of today's events to show up in the markets. It will not be bullish, and the PPT will be powerless to prevent a downturn. And, we are told that KS has some indictments pending from his two grand juries.

I still think Oldman's comment that the fortunes of the markets and WJC are linked is probably accurate. If he is wrong about this, it would probably be because of a severe foreign 'flight to safety' panic that overrides WJC's problems.

Steve in TO: Thanks for your South America update. South America is probably the next source of a financial crisis, somewhere after the Oct 4 elections in Brazil.

Does anyone know what Cardoso's chances are of winning in Brazil? Any serious oppostion?

I find it amazing that investors in Brazil etal are naive enough to believe that the G7/IMF has enough reserves to bail them out. If the IMF starts selling their gold reserves, then we will know that magnitude of the desperation. Regardless, there is no way that the IMF can come up with the 70 billion or so of short term credit Brazil owes.

* Do you respect a leader who evaded the draft, avoided serving his country and then lied about it?

* Do you respect a leader who summarily fired loyal White house employee's of 30 years, something no OTHER president has done, so that he and his wife could bring in their Arkansas cronies? How about one who did the same to the Travel Office employee's?

* Do you respect a leader who can never give a straight honest answer about ANYthing..be it Gennifer Flowers, dope smoking, campaign fund raising, et al.?

* Do you respect a leader who thinks nothing of destroying the reputations on any and all persons, no matter how innocent, if he thinks they ought to "maintain their silence" to protect him?

* Do you respect a leader who uses operatives to misuse confidential files from the FBI, against his political enemies, apparently far in excess of the abuses done by R. Nixon along similar lines?

* Do you respect a leader who allows White House insiders to "leak" lies and innuendo against a decorated military officer who is now a Congressman, in order to discredit him? Using the GERALDO show of all places as his vehicle to do so?

* Do you respect a leader who bombs Fourth world countries with 80 million dollars in cruise missiles in order to shift the focus off his own crimes...when he NEVER gave a Rats Ass about all the REAL terrorist threats that have exisisted since the inception of his administration?

* Do you respect a leader who keeps heads of state and Senators wiating for him while he get's BJ's and plays footsie with 21 year old interns in the inner sanctums off the Oval office while supposedly conducting the country's business?

* Do you respect a leader who wags his finger at the electorate and says "Now listen to me..I'm saying this again..." in his most sincere and condescending tone...and is proven a liar, liar, liar at every turn?

* Do you respect a leader who spends his time perjuring himself under oath, suborning perjury, obstructing justice, and playing idiotic games with the English language?

* Do you respect a leader who claims to be intelligent claiming that BJ's do not constitute a "sexual relationship?"

* Do you respect a leader who gives bogus quasi apologies to the nation for his behaviour ( all the while blaming others ) and then decides belatedly to ACT more contrite when he see's how poorly his "apology" played in the polls?

* Do you respect a leader who has done NOTHING for the country during his term, in eitehr foreign policy or domestic policy that has enhanced U.S. stature in the world?

* Do you respect a leader who becomes a pimp and a whore, selling out the Lincoln bedroom to pals who donate to him....selling his influence at "Coffee Clatches" to anyone who will give him a favor or fat campaign donation?

* Do you respect a leader who puts himself above his duty in all things and disgraces the Presidency, like no president since Nixon?

* Do you respect a leader who forces his unwanted advances on a woman who's husband just died, in order to take advantage of her? A woman who has come to him for help?

* Do you respect a leader who pursues a dispicable "scorched earth" policy trying to tear down everyone in Govt. who is trying to investigate him?

* Do you respect a leader who's cabinet members are constantly resigning because they don't want to be tainted any longer with his sleazy legacy?

* Do you respect a leader who has 28 close associates who "knew too much" and hoave now died under mysterious circumastances?

* Do you respect a leader who is seemingly incapable of understanding the difference between telling the truth and not being caught in a lie?

* Do you respect a leader who get's credit for a sound economy that is a result of his predecessors policies...yet the only economic legislation he's passed is a Nafta treaty that sent jobs out of the U.S., a Family leave act that did nothing one way or the other, and a minimal boost in the Minimum wage, which also has done little one way or the other? and who's current claim to fame is trying to get billions more for the IMF?

* Do you respect a leader who's entire socialist agenda was immediately flushed down the toilet by a much wiser congress, within weeks of his election...and yet now he claims credit for the nation's prosperity?

* Do you respect a leader who...let's face it.... is a lying, sleazy, slippery, scummy, steaming lump of dung in every way?


Pardon me if I don't feel that this man deserves our "respect".

Our land, our constitution, and the office of the Presidency has been disgraced by this Lop. Thankfully, he'll go down in the history books as the Bozo he is....hopefully leading to better leaders in the future.

More wonderfull buying opportunities. This may be a short lived opportunity, however. Attention will now turn back to Global fundamentals now that the latest Clinton thing is in the rear view.

If there has been some quiet accumulation of futures in anticipation of a large buy in silver as it almost appears, we should soon know. This reaction dip will surely trigger such a buy. It will be interesting to watch COMEX stocks the next day or two.

number is 516-425-7185...yuz got a bone to pick do it in person...nuff said...

A reasonable gift for the Prez. eh?

Maybe an immediate early retirement to Alaska ( oops, wouldn't want to ruin the delicate eco system up there with toxic waste )

Uh, let's see, maybe he could send him one of those cruis emissiles he's fond of firing at non military targets...let him take an exciting ride on it a la "How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb".

Oh, hmmm, maybe a soiled dress for a momento of his legacy?

Geez, this could go on for hours...and you KNOW how Clinton loves to give and recieve gifts....

Sadly, you are probably correct regarding the legal 'how to' manual.

Right on all counts my good fellow... --Al

My Father's name was Aram...thought you might want to know...first day with your new lips?

Your 14:30.....a rare, heartfelt demonstration of American values.....A PRINT!....Lini also says Brabo!....may God bless you and yours. As far as for the gift...just another tie?.....no, perhaps a noose?

Uhhh let me see how STUPID and mindless I can be today.

OK, let's look closely at the behaviour and morality of an immature, emotionally imbalanced, manipulative, unelected, 21 year old intern who has a position of Zero power whatsoever in our Govt........and then try and use that behaviour as apologetics for the man who holds the highest office in the land.... and holds the public trust.... and promised to never do this nonsense again if we woudl elect him..... and indeed DOES have all the power......and....and.....and.....


Yep...brilliant. They should both be held to the same standard right? If a messed up immature nobody exhibits bad behaviour, this OBVUIOUSLY excuses any and all dispicable behaviours of the man that holds the highest position of trust in the free world.

Works for me.

Reaction buying has settled out. Dow now dropped back below 7900. Since we are already at or slightly above the morning open after having slipped back a bit, chances are the day traders are already out. This puts it back to anybodys guess what happens the last hour.

Of course since we were in the midst of the runup going into the metals market close, they have closed during the reacrion selloff and are somewhat lower than might have been the case otherwise.

As soon as Bill O'Neill of Merrill Lynch said that gold was very disappointing given all of the world events that were occurring, the gold price went downhill. He generally has not liked gold, and the markets sure follow his remarks. Anyway, that's the story. Sorry!

Highhopes

LGB - so Clinton is evil.

Most of us know it. My personal favorite administration phrase is

" there is no evidence"

They never say they didn't do it. : )

America's dead. Get over it. : )

Pure Capitalism. Pure Communism. Pure Nonsense.

There are only two known primary forms of human economic order; the politicially regulated kind and the free barter kind. In the politically regulated kind, economic activity is a matter of policy, implemented by policy bodies using policy instruments. In this kind of economic order money is a creation of and a function of policy. Policy is enforced in the politically regulated kind of economic order and is itself a function of force, legal and physical. Modern Western and Eastern forms of economic order are of this type.

In the free barter kind of economic order, money is what people decide it is. Gold, because of its physical properties, is the best, most honest unit of account and exchange for the free barter kind of economic order. In the free barter kind of economic order, custom regulates. Customs of contract in a free barter market are themselves a product of the consent of the participants and onlookers, acting as jurymen, and the force of the law upholds them, but does not decree or dictate them.

Where gold and silver coin were adopted as the money of a free barter kind of economy, a further development was possible due to the qualities of lastingness and incorruptibility of precious metals. This further development was savings and accumulation and finally joint venture funded with savings of capital ( gold and silver coin ) . The joint venture was often formalized as a corporation which returned shares of profits, if any, to the shareholders via dividends. This form of economic order is extinct due to their being no longer capital, but only credit, in circulation, by reason of the corporation's now being itself a regulated instrument of state policy ( though not recognized as being so by the legal authorities ) , and by reason of the favored status granted to usury and interest by governments which are themselves almost exclusively totally funded by credit and interest on extensions of credit.

In the politically regulated kind of economic order all land, goods, and services belong to the state and people pay the state for the privilege of using them according to strict liability regulation. Offenses and infractions are punished regardless of whether or not any harm results to persons or property. In the free barter kind of economic order, people own land and other property absolutely subject only to the law's holding them liable for actual harm to other persons or their property.

You make some good points. After watching some cuts on CNN I'm perswaded he handles himself very well indeed. Many Americans will find something to admire as a reesult of his defense. This whole thing isn't going to plan ( Starr&Co. ) .

If he dealt with the Chinese thru Loral etc. that is truly treasonous,also Tibet and Taiwan will haunt him. But a sex trip? All that lawyer crap notwithstanding ( perjury blah blah ) The sex trip might actually get him off the hook.

Canadian markets very quiet, gold going down, not a happy day for goldbugs. Maybe you go gold guys should be more expicit..

the day tOlerant1 gets 404'd is the day your front door gets the red mark of hate. He adeptly proves with a finely focused mind. He begs enlistment to protect YOUR rights to speak. And as he would fairly suggest, there is plenty of time to listen to more of you....please offer forth.

Reality is returning faster than I expected.

I must respectfully disagree with your statement "America is Dead" .

It isn't the country that's dead, it isn't the constitution, system of Govt. or the office of Presidency that's dead.

It's the festering, cancerous tumor diagnosed as Clinton that'd dead. This tumor will be surgically removed, or even removed through chemotherapy over time. In 2 years this tumor will be gone, the country will heal, and be healthier than it was befor ebeing afflicted with this festering deisease known as the Clintonarcenoma.

They did a von Clausewitz; ignore the battle that is already lost ( Starr's Referral to the House ) and concentrate on the battle that decides the war, the battle to win Public Opinion. As well we know, people tend NOT to listen/watch with focused, critical attention and will see/hear exactly what they were meant to see/heara reflection of themselves. In a ghastly way, it is the new kind of body politic Rorschach test. Note that we already have acquiescent responses on OUR board. bbml

challenging event.
Personally, I find Clinton completely disgusting, and his wife too.
When I study Clinton's face, I come always to the result that there is incredible brutality written in his features. The fact that he acted so stupid in the matter of his relationship to Lewinsky shows in my opinion, that his egocentric brutality overpowered his intelligence.

But the other side of the story is the question: why do his enemies persecue him on this affair, even though we all can be sure that the media lords who carry on with this story, are under a morality viewpoint not better but worse than Mr. Clinton.

We can be absolutely sure that the media related think-tanks knew everything about Clinton's character from the beginning, his weaknesses, how to get him, his affairs, that his wife didn't sleep with him, everything.

Do they want to weaken the presidency as an institution? Do they need a weakened presidency at a time when the financial markets go down the drain? Is their intention to take him as an example to further manipulate the "American culture" into deeper rottenness? There is for sure no better way to do just that than to take the first family as an example to teach the public "anti-family" values. This affair has a more devastating effect on the moral orientation of young people than the distribution of condoms and the teaching of masturbation and promotion of homosexual life styles in public schools could ever have.

The fact that this affair was brought to the point of political importance which it has today makes me completely suspicious. We can be absolutely sure that the established powers have a completely different agenda. They don't care about morality or law or lying under oath.

The dilemma is, that here is no solution to this affair. It will continue to take away the public attention from the real important issues.

Both: Indeed, I have been absent these several days, though my return may beg the question, "Am I truly here in my entirety?" But then, was I ever?

Allen, I hope those props may be used to an advantage as you teach among family and friends. My pleasure to be of assistance.

TolerantOne, I hope the arm is restored to working order. My apologies for the ongoing delay in the shipment of "shoulder oil" as promised. I hope to remedy that oversight forthwith.

Namaste'

INDEX OPEN CLOSE %CHG CHG
DOW 7895.66 7933.25 0.48% 37.59
XAU 68.70 64.52 -6.08% -4.18
the last 15 minutes were the most interesting...

Someone has posted on occation a news link with a left hand column of times and, to the right, a news blurb for each time stamp. The blurb is a link. The news was pretty much financial, but with a bit broader brush as whatever might effect finaincial/markets.

APH - Congrats! Your call for the Dec SnP to move towards 1040-1050 was superb given what happened in Japan and Europe. What's next ?

George:

And I like your point also. If the president did commit treasonous acts with the Chinese or with Loral, or did embezzle funds in Whitewater...

Why wasn't it in the Starr report?

When matters get to the point of being obvious that a fight is coming, make sure you get in the first punch. If you do it right, there won't be need for any more.

Ken Starr is being paid by the American public for his work. It has been obvious for a long time that this work consists of a fight with the President. This is his first punch. Isn't it his best one? If not, he is incompetent! $50 million has been wasted!

Just where is all the supposed evidence of wrongdoing in Whitewater? He has had years of more time to prepare it.

Where is the material proving treason?

If he really has such information and is withholding it from the American public, that is obstruction of justice!

Who is your broker? Mine just told me they don't execute any orders on stocks below $3. Strange stuff!! I'm working close on CLN and I don't want to be cut off with out notice. My email is cdevoto@abts.net I believe we have something to look at here. Thanx for your help, Charlie

As predicted...the DOW liked the tapes. Gold didn't. This trend will not change in the near future.

Bought some SSC today at 3/4 in part due to agreement with EB.

And Gold ?

According to christian faith , B . CLINTON is most certainly bound for hell. To give him an idea of what he can expect there , a treatise about hell's thermic environment might help him get ready. Obviously , he is a man who likes to get ready for any discommfortable experience.
Does any of the physicist here want to venture a guess wether hell is exothermic or endothermic?

Gold will shine when the masses fear the paper money of today. You can not wish it to be...such will occur in due course. However due course may be after one is dead. I see paper money being destroyed...derivatives...loans to pay old loans which were to pay prior loans...debt default.

Time, it's on your side....PMSM. Patience.

Tol1...nice one on the lips.

Tom

This was sent to me by a friend... Thought it would have some relevance.




To Think Or Not To Think, That Is The Question....?

Dear Friends,

Do we spend too much time thinking? Should we just live in the present moment and not think about anything else? While you are thinking about that...here is another thing to think about...or not.

THINKERS ANONYMOUS ( TA )

It started out innocently enough. I began to think at parties now and
then to loosen up. Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and
soon I was more than just a social thinker.

I began to think alone--"to relax," I told myself,--but I knew it wasn't
true. Thinking became more and more important to me, and finally, I was
thinking all the time.

I began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment didn't
mix, but I couldn't stop myself.

I began to avoid friends at lunch time so I could read Thoreau and Kafka.
I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking, "What exactly
is it we are doing here?"

Things weren't going so great at home either. One evening I had turned
off the TV and asked my wife about the meaning of life. She spent that
night at her mother's.

I soon had a reputation as a heavy thinker. One day the boss called me
in. He said, "Skippy, I like you, and it hurts me to say this, but your
thinking has become a real problem. If you don't stop thinking on the job, you'll have to find another job." This gave me a lot to think about.

I came home early after my conversation with the boss. "Honey," I
confessed, "I've been thinking . . ."

"I know you've been thinking," she said, "and I want a divorce!"

"But Honey, surely it's not that serious."

"It is serious," she said, lower lip aquiver. "You think as much as
college professors, and college professors don't make any money, so if
you keep on thinking we won't have any money!"

"That's a faulty syllogism," I said impatiently, and she began to cry.
I'd had enough. "I'm going to the library," I snarled as I stomped out
the door.

I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche, with a PBS
station on the radio. I roared into the parking lot and ran up to the
big glass doors . . . they didn't open. The library was closed.

To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that
night. As I sank to the ground clawing at the unfeeling glass, whimpering
for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye. "Friend, is heavy
thinking ruining your life?" it asked. You probably recognize that line.
It come from the standard Thinker's Anonymous poster, which is why I am
what I am today: a recovering thinker.

I never miss a TA meeting. At each meeting we watch a non-educational
video; last week it was "Dumb and Dumber". Then we share
experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting.

I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home. Life just
seemed . . . easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking.
_____________________________________________________________________

I find myself in a similar situation! How about you?

Of course, not speaking for my employer.

Regards to all O.L.

COMEX Metal Warehouse Statistics for Sept. 21

-- TOTALS
Gold 924,724 + 0 troy ounces
Silver 77,211,262 - 143,874 troy ounces
Copper 59,341 + 1,707 short tons

********************************************************************
The metals all closed down today. I don't think this means we're
headin' to new lows, yet. It would take a decline to the low 280's
to convince me that we're going to test the lows. I think there is
enough support in the mid 280's to keep this short to medium term bull
going up. We'll see...I don't have a clue as to what Silver will do. It
had more of a retrace than I'd like to see. See ya later. Foxman

Consider the tax take of the G7 nations as a percentage of their GDP and huge fortunes of those behind the scenes and you know why markets can be manipulated to their desires and ends.
If you can't see that, you wear blinders, or I'm a F%$#ing Idiot.
Furthermore, Klittytone indescretions are the trees and your lost in the forest.

This? http://www.newsday.com/ap/topnewsx.htm

Finally we agree on something,

Someone posted here a while back that Star's law firm was involved in the Chinagate deal. and we now know that Iran contra arms for drugs went through Clinton's Arkansas - Oliver North Reagan Bush. THEY ALL HAVE DIRT ON EACH OTHER!

On Starr's investigation
"If he really has such information and is withholding it from the American public, that is obstruction of justice!" Yes it would be!

Of course some of this stuff may still come out over tnext two years.

HighRise

Your questions and some answers;

1 ) Question; "If the president did commit treasonous acts with the Chinese or with Loral, or did embezzle funds in Whitewater...Why wasn't it in the Starr report?"

Answer....The Loral issue has been addressed at length here in detail in the past. It is a non issue. "Rcoket" technology was not transferred by a complany who has nothing to do with Rocket technology, Satellite launch waivers in China were not granted as favors. ( Pres. Bush authorized several of them routinely, long prior to CLinton )

2 ) Question. "Ken Starr is being paid by the American public for his work. It has been obvious for a long time that this work consists of a
fight with the President. This is his first punch. Isn't it his best one? If not, he is incompetent! $50 million has been wasted!"

Answer.... Wasted? Several major players are in jail due to the Starr investigation. Susan McDougal comes to mind..and some have been CONVCITED of serious crimes. Web Hubbel comes to mind. Several others have been convicted and or indicted for crimes in spite of their concerted coverup.

Actually, Starr's investigation has been a very cost effective one, all things considered. Then we have obvious evidence of perjury by the president, and his true "character" has been exposed for all to see. Certainly the lengthy 50 million spent over years resulting in important convictions for Govt. wrongdoing....is not NEARLY as wasteful as expending 80 million in one hour in cruise missiles against non targets....all to take scrutiny off the Ass covering pres.

3 ) Question ......"Just where is all the supposed evidence of wrongdoing in Whitewater? He has had years of more time to prepare it.?"

Answer... as I said, many have been convicted. Other witnesses including Hubbel and Susan McDougal have made it clear they'll take the fall for CLinton by not giving the facts or testimony no matter how many years they spend in jail. Jim McDougla has conviently died ( like so many others ) . When the White House hides documents for years..until they have all the major players under control or eliminated.... and the witnesses refuse to speak...it doesn't take a "Rocket Scientist" to figure out what happened.

Question 4....."Where is the material proving treason? If he really has such information and is withholding it from the American public, that is obstruction of justice!"

Au contrair...Starr has repeatadly requested permission to delve into the REAL issues. Campaign financing, influence peddling, etc. Clinton's lackey Janet Reno, continues to not only refuse any investigation into these important matters, but also continues to allow a seconf Indpendant counsel to investigate them...even after receiving "Contempt of Congress"

The stooge Reno has done a marvelous job of keeping investigation on matters sexual...which Clinton apparently rightly believed would take the focus off more important crimes which would lead to full scale impeachment.

Clinton = Disgrace

We've had some good analysis here as this regards markets, valuations, currencies, metals, etc. But it seems that every time a descent analysis is presented then it is shattered by the market's actual behaviours.

There is a scent of manipulation in the air .. and who whould not protect his own investments .. or those of his friends, if he were able to do so? We must understand that if there is some set of 'investors' who play the markets for ends other than 'making money today' then there are powerful reasons for them to operate in that way. If we are in a precarious time, a flux-um-ated jumble of contradicting currents leading to a bifurication in the road, the one way leading to ruin, the other to a comparative pair-a-dice, then who whould not suspect the powers for their efforts to persuade the dumb beast in a particualr direction .. or at least to stop long enough on the path in order for its more well endowed riders to disembark?

The problem we are faced with is a farcical environment with straight faced participants who insist on talking about things such as they are as if they were something else entirely. The straining sounds we hear are not the liberate' of some musical equilibrium, but the wretching notes of a great tragedy in process. A slow process, the rhythm being one beat per day, more or less. The tones more like the whaling of some great dying breast who can not utter words of protest or accusation to its unfaithful friends or faithful tormenters.

In such a case I wonder who can 'trade' or 'invest' without a vest or "Is it possibly to survive?" in a sea with 100 foot waves beating the boat to pieces every 11 seconds as well as the 45 knot winds. Sharefin?

What a day - had the smell of a key reversal written all over it. Down 10 cents in silver - man that $5 area is impenetrable. Clinton comes out pretty well - we now know for certain what we thought all a long - he's a good liar.

What do we do with metals - wait for the next bottom?????

Actually, I'm more worried about Japan than ever but have seen the metals provide scant safety at this juncture.

The bear is dead, the bear is dead
Let's dance naked around it's burning corpse
The bear is dead.
Taunt it with earnings
Taunt it with declines
Taunt it with scandal
Taunt it with, oh nevermind
It slipped on billions in IMF cash
I strangled it dead with video tape
The bear is dead, the bear is dead
Let's dance naked around it's burning corpse
The bear is dead.
Paper burning from north to south
From east to west, flames fly higher
Tanking markets near the sunrise
Billion dollar bail-out to the jungle-side
Falling dollars on the hockey side
Trillion dollar bail-out to the sushi side
The bear is dead, the bear is dead
Let's dance naked around it's burning corpse
The bear is dead
The big bear bled
Seas of red
Mounted his head
The bear is dead

Like that, but more raw and gritty. Thanks for the URL. This was something I like a news wire with similar format to what you shared.

9/21/98 -- 3:52 PM

IMF stresses role of Japan in capital markets


WASHINGTON ( AP ) - Global capital markets could face more turbulence if Japan does
not quickly solve its pressing economic problems and financial difficulties in Asia and Latin
America get worse, the International Monetary Fund said Monday.

The IMF also said in its annual report on capital markets that while the United States and
Europe have not yet been greatly affected by these crises, there were risks of an economic
downturn, particularly if stock prices declined sharply.

The report focuses mainly on the effects of the Asian crisis, which began last July. It does
not deal with the economic meltdown in Russia last month and the financial shocks Brazil
and other Latin American countries have experienced in recent weeks.

The report said net private capital flows to emerging market countries around the world
fell dramatically in 1997, the first significant downturn in a decade.

``What we have been seeing is a quite sizable and sharp drying up of financing'' for many
of these economies, said Charles Adams, an author of the report.

He said there had been a spillover effect as countries in other parts of the world,
particularly Russia and Latin America, experienced the same capital outflows as Asian
nations.
http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news1017.htm


Monday September 21 1:40 PM EDT

Confusion Reigns as Japan Bank-Bill Pact Unravels

By Yoko Nishikawa

TOKYO ( Reuters ) - Confusion engulfed Japanese politics and markets Monday as an agreement by ruling and
opposition political leaders on key financial legislation appeared to fall apart.

Preliminary talks began in an attempt to narrow the divide over Friday's basic agreement, and a senior member
of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party ( LDP ) said he was confident that differences between the parties could
be overcome.

But Tokyo stock prices tumbled to fresh 12-year lows on the stark differences as to what -- if anything -- had
actually been agreed.

After the market closed, credit-rating agency Fitch IBCA downgraded Japan's long-term foreign currency
rating, citing ``a weak and deteriorating banking system, hesitant policy responses to economic challenges, and a
mounting public debt which will soon be in a similar league to that of Belgium, Italy and Greece.''

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/bs/story.html?s=v/nm/19980921/bs/banking_19.html

I like the wisdom of your wonderful story.

First , we postulate that if souls exist , they must have a mass. If they do , then a mole of souls also must have a mass. So , at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving ? I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell , it does not leave.
Therefore , no souls are leaving .
With the birth and death rates being what they are , we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.
Now , we look at the rate of change in the volume of hell.
Boyle's law states that in order for the temperature and pressure to stay the same , the ratio of the mass of the souls and the volume of hell needs to stay constant.
1 ) If hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell , then the temperature in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose
2 ) If hell is expanding at a faster rate than the increase in souls in hell , then the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over.
So which is it ?
If we accept the postulate given to me by my former high scholl sweetheart that it will be a cold day in hell before I sleep with her and taking into account that I still have not succeeded ( and will not ) in this enterprise , then 2 can not be true ; Thus , hell is exothermic

I ran into the same problem and resolved it by getting a brokers name from the marketing guy at Claimstaker. I phoned my broker and he said I can not pst his name on the internet. Who Knows.
thanks

Thanks, now I understand.

HighRise

Despite the massive commercials short position, the long bond managed to reach new high's. Bonds ( US Treasuries ) are in a long term bull market anticipating massive deflationary forces world wide. I repeat, NOTHING can be done to stop and reverse these deflationay forces. They will continue to run until exhaustion. By the first or second quarter of 1999, it will be apparent to anyone that we are in a depression. By early 1999, the hoped for profits for the year 1998 just won't show up anywhere, and instead investors will read about losses in the companies they hold. The Federal Budget deficit will become known, ( which will not be bullish at all )
and a depression in Europe will mount. Right now, one is beginning . A "trade war" will be on by early 1999 and that will be bearish. No one profits from foreign trade war. Cut throat prices should prevail, and unemployment should reach higher level than at any time in 1998.I would not be surprised to see heavy European selling of securities in the US markets. The US dollar received will be converted into money backed by gold. By the middle to late 1999, the depression in the US will hit all around in all business and in almost all kinds of stocks.

Does anyone know whose screwing with the POG? Everything looked OK this AM when I left home. I come back to this mess. Did the son of The "Father of All Lies" lie the gold market down?

Sorry but these are all qualities of a leader in our day and age. Otherwise it will be...Mr.Rogers for President..above reproach...I think we should give Suddam a hug! I'm proud to be your neighbour!
Sorry ...only S.O.B's become presidents.

September 21, 1998

CLINTON TAPE SHOWS PERJURY, OBSTRUCTION

BARR RENEWS CALL FOR IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY

ATLANTA, GA - U.S. Representative Bob Barr ( GA-7 ) issued the following

statement regarding a videotape of President Clinton's grand jury

testimony and other evidence released to the American public today:

"This is a sad day for America. For the first time in our history, the American people will view firsthand the sorry spectacle of their President committing a felony on videotape.

"On the video, the President clearly denies the existence of a relationship that obviously took place, as numerous pieces of corroborative evidence indicate. After viewing this videotape, no reasonable person could conclude that the President did not knowingly lie to the grand jury and to the court in the underlying lawsuit. This is a classic case of perjury.

"The material released today also already indicates the President was attempting to obstruct justice by deliberately misleading the grand jury

by written and oral testimony.

"These are serious offenses that strike at the heart of our system of rule by law. Every day, courts depend on witnesses to tell the truth. If the highest elected official in the world is allowed to do otherwise, our judicial system will suffer irreparable damage.

"If an average American were convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice, they could expect to receive an eight to ten year sentence under federal guidelines. From 1993 to 1997 nearly 500 Americans were convicted of perjury in Federal courts alone. Of those convictions, more than two-thirds received prison sentences. In fact, in a recent case, President Clinton's own Justice Department successfully prosecuted a woman for lying under oath about the existence of a sexual relationship in a civil case.

"We now see direct evidence that our President has committed felony violations of federal law. It is now up to Congress to decide whether

his actions constitute impeachable offenses. For this reason, we must move forward immediately with an impeachment inquiry, a step which I called for nearly a year ago."

Barr, a former United States Attorney who successfully prosecuted a Republican Congressman for perjury, serves on the House Judiciary Committee.

--30--

For additional information please visit our website at

http://www.house.gov/barr

How can a KitcoKat NOT like the big bubba? I mean is tin-man Gore
going to be so much better for your gold prospects? Wake up you
rascals....bubba is going to be the best thing that happened for
your precious... : )

Well , the good news is there has been a correlation recently between the $/DM , $/ YEN , S&P futures and the POG
The bad news is , as all these ended up from opening the POG went down.
This in spite of unprecedented ( at least since 1993 ) retail demand , indian buying , and not much more CB selling.
The bears took the oportunity to show their ugly face when they felt that the bull's hand was weak.
In the long term , who cares ?

I ventured the opinion a couple days ago that with their incessant persecution of Clinton the Republicans were running the risk of martyring him. At least in the eyes of the great unwashed.

There is no doubt in my mind that contrary to their protestations the Dems definitely wanted that tape broadcast today. They don't call him Slick for nothing. By going over their heads & directly to the public, Clinton once again outmaneuvered & outsmarted the lumbering, unimaginitive, vindictive Republicans.

the POG. Would'nt want to own the metal or shares overnight.

Yes a tough SOB, who has sex etc. etc. may be a strong leader. The problem with Clinton is that he has exhibited stupidity in office and is not fit to govern.

What bothered me the most about the video today was not his lying but it was his inability to answer questions inteligently and consistantly.

If he gets impeached it will be his own fault.

Yet, his video little off the subject, outakes / sound bites, are doing to the job for him again - the press will show those instesd of the actual question and answers. Again it is his gibberish double talk rather than the truth that gets presented to the public.

HighRise

I really think you American tax payers should stop paying to prop up the stock market. It is getting a little obvious. Oh well... Just print a little more non - existant money.

Dow/Gold Ratio = 27.48. The 233 day moving average is 28.51 and we have closed below it for the past 15 trading days.

Deflation, depression, no where to hide but in Treasuries and then gold when the powers that be try and reflate us out of the hole we are headed into.

XAU/Spot Ratio = .223. The 233 day moving average is .250

What I don't like is Holyer than thou types. Simply put ( not that you need it ) .. " Think about that position and who will fill it" . Jimmy Swaggert?

PH:

For the record re. Prosecutor Starr:

To date, 14 convictions regarding Whitewater investigation including the Governor of Arkansas and his Assistant Attorney General. Starr's conviction record is the most productive of any independent prosecutor in history. As for Clinton, his continuous poor judgement is proof of his inability to hold high office. Think of the danger in his self-centered actions when viewed in the light of national security. He is now more concerned with his own political safety than with the safety of the nation. He is psychologically unfit to be president.

All: How much do we know about Kenneth's Starr's other investigations, and Janet Reno's stonewalling of the Campaigngate investigation?

Does anyone know if there really is more to come? Ambrose Evans-Pritchard thinks so. My guess is that there is, because testimony from witnesses previously unwilling to testify is probably being collected as we speak at KS's two grand jury sites.

If this assessment is correct, just how much more time does KS have before he has to end his investigations?

If they only knew what reforms !!!

Did other peoples mining stocks go up today despite gold's dip. Just wondering if we have some hidden purchasing going on here.If precious is falling and PM 's are going up DUH? WOULD THIS BE BULLISH?

Clinton The Real Man  After over 700 million of American tax payer money the Republications have proven Clinton had normal sex .It certainly is a sad day for America when congress page boys are having wide open homosexual acts with their friendly Republican bosses .It only proves most Americans are not rocket scientists but prey to the sick and controlled media .God Bless America It certainly needs help from above.

Sig, re your 17:57, you made the point far more eloquently and succinctly than I had tried to earlier.

Those diehard Clinton apologists who continue to try and slam Starr for "wasting" taxpayer money on an investigation that produced "nothing of substance", strictly as a political witchhunt... are making an ABSURD argument.

Pretty simple....Buy the rumor ( Clinton tapes had something really bad to show ) , sell the news ( tapes pretty much didn't disclose anything that wasn't in the Starr report ) .

It's just...? Tell me who can lead your country? Who darnit? So what if Clinton is just a figure head! The world likes his moderation and his finger on the nuclear button.He don't have the strenght to push it!

james: Interesting comment. Markets do not necessarily behave for obvious reasons. The poor performance of gold today does not bode well for a further decline in the Japanese markets. Gold may very well indeed drop with the Yen. I am regretting my fairly sizeable investment in gold equities, but I intend to hang on. I will keep reminding myself the words of Mike Stewart, and RJ.

Again we see that the traders still do the best these days. Not investors.

"analysis is presented then it is shattered by the market's actual behaviors."

Pardon je, mon frre! My scenario is still intact! ( 1 ) gold contained/controlled until birth of Euro. Exception:an unprecedented calamity.
( 2 ) Potemkin USD retains 'unwarranted/unnatural' strength until Europeans begin repatriating funds at close to parity
( 3 ) European CBs relax controls on gold ( monetary gold and gold in "valuables" will be 'marked to market' under new rules. Europe arrives at the new millenium neatly devalued, de-debted, and delighted!

This, of course, pretends Y2K doesn't exist. Which is the nitrogen bubble in the life-stream.
Got two sticks to rub together? {:- ) )

Lest anyone question whether there is enough liquidity for the gold shorts to operate in this environment, think again. All they need is for the longs to get the price up high enough to make it worthwhile. The velocity of the drop today tells me that there could be a fair amount more to go on the downside. Take care with the gold equities, and maybe its a good idea to keep one eye on Mr. Jeil's charts after today's action before comitting any new money.

we had some time back. My hard drive crashed last week and now that I'm back on line this is what I find; the background is white, message goes all the way across the page, are we back to this for a while? I would like a kink to the frames version, black background 3-D revolving "update" icon, graphs on the left, you know... If the site is being updated and I don't know it,ok, just someone let me know. Thanks to those folks who sent me links to the "white page" but someone tell me what's the deal...Email: badger@lcc.net


thanks ( go gold! )

Greenie WILL cut rates / prime the pump going into Y2K election. Bond prices are peaking; the stock market is chronically and terminally ill. DJIA will beat itself senselessly against the low 8000s over the next 12 months. The METALS are due for one more short term setback, the XAU back to low-mid 50s, and then metals will rise and mining issues will SOAR!!

All: It is not just Dick Morris and Ambrose Evans-Pritchard that said the more is to come from Kenneth Starr. Perhaps all we have had is KS's 'softening' of the WJC camp, but the real assault is yet to come.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/980915.exbre_starr_indict_.html

all my mining stocks went down today except one obscure silver stock, united keno. but it was just a little.

Then the plunge to new lows. Copy this and remember it. Gold to
$310-315 after impeachment proceedings begin, its a matter of weeks
before he gets to steppen.

Oh good heavens! Why one can't believe any poll, any broker, or anybody other than the folk that post here

FT, Mon Sep 21, 1998
( 1 ) Merrill is going to offer "hindsight bonds"; this new product -7 yr life-allocates the initial investment between 8 European stock markets according to each market's performance. BEING ISSUED IN DMARKS! 1 bn worth, which, come 1/1/99 will be 50 bn Euroone wonders whether or no they will then carry the Euro label, along with the "slimming" conversion? Oh well, this product is aimed "at rich private investors via private banks and up-market financial investors."

( 2 ) Swiss divided over sale of gold reserves. The poll conducted by GfS found 42 per cent agreed with the idea that the Swiss reserves should be sold and 40 per cent disagreed. The remaining 18 per cent "didn't know".
BUT THE POLL ALSO FOUND THAT 69% OF THE POPULATION THOUGHT IT WAS "RATHER IMPORTANT" FOR SWITZERLAND TO HAVE SUBSTANTIAL GOLD RESERVES. And only
25% thought the current level was excessive.

These stories no longer make sense to me. It is obvious I've lost it!
Out to the garden to seek it... {:- ) )

Billdo has now explained "it" to all us 'merkans. But how will he explain it to ALL His Children?

You wrote:
Date: Sat Sep 19 1998 12:51
RETIRED SOLDIER ( Goldtek ) ID#347235:
Do you cut and paste all these multi-thousand word postings simply because you have no original thoughts of your own? Most of ths is available elsewhere and those of us that are interested have already seen it at least once. If you have no original thoughts please don't waste Barts precious bandwith and our time. SHALOM

WHAT I AM VERY SURPRISED IS THAT NO ONE TOLD YOU SO, HOW INSENSITIVE YOU REALLY ARE!

Yes, you are right, most of the articles are available somewhere, but does everyone on this board has nothing else to do but to look on the internet for those valuable articles ? Goldteck's passion is to look for any information about gold or events which may affect the POG and he likes to share it with others who may not have the same free time as he has.

....you have no original thoughts of your own?...

Some posters are very good at expressing their thoughts, some others are not, but that doesn't mean that they are not welcome to participate in what they are good at. Goldteck is good at sharing with others the product of his research, correct me if I am wrong here but... does everyone on this board share "RETIRED SOLDIER" view about Goldteck ? Does everyone on this board is so smart that they don't need to read the articles posted by Goldteck ?

...If you have no original thoughts please don't waste Barts precious bandwith and our time....

Listen, I may not have spoken very often on this board because of people like you who think they are the only one posting intelligent thoughts. I have been reading almost every post on this forum for the past six months, believe me... many popular posters are wasting Bart's precious bandwith... and our time... more than Goldteck does... but you never said anything to them... like "Gollum's" hourly report on the DOW and the POG which are definitively available elsewhere.... everyone seems to enjoy Gollum's play with handles, airline etc... ( nothing personal here Gollum, I am not complaining, if everyone enjoy it, then be it, I just ignore them, I am just using it as an example ) I also recall reading many of your posts which had absolutely nothing to do with gold.

Anyway, I am posting to day because I think you own an apology to Mr Goldteck, perhaps you had a bad day Saturday and you let it on this gentleman.
Am I the only poster here who's appreciate Goldteck's posting ? He doesn't have to share the fruit of his research with us, he felt very bad about this message from RETIRED SOLDIER, he didn't say so openly but he wrote something about himself on the TVX's board and how he got started posting on the Kitco and other boards. I won't post the URL but if you are interested to learn more about a real GENTLEMAN, go to message 5043 on the TVX Yahoo message board.
It really hurt me when I read RETIRED SOLDIER message above directed to Goldteck, I felt so bad for Goldteck, but it also hurt me to see that no one responded to RETIRED SOLDIER or wrote a note to Goldteck, it is like everyone on this forum agreeing with him, somehow I find this hard to believe. Have you noticed any post from Goldteck today ? I hope he will still post or we will all lose except RETIRED SOLDIER of course.

I'm past caring what happens to the price of gold. Too many hopeful situations which fizzled. I do belive evntually it will be the basis for a world-wide currency and it will be clear sailing afterwards.

On the open sea ( no currents ) the sea is very predictable and regular. For every wind velocity a wave will be generated of definite period, length, and height. A 45 knot wind will produce around a 30 foot wave with a frothing top, very common and very uncomfortable.

Posts infrequently...seldom errs...watch your backside. Demand?????? Disney queries....and the answer is....???

Tom

Try Datek, haven't had any problems buying any low priced stocks. Did have a semi-large limit order in to buy Drooy at 2 7/8 early last week.
Checked it at lunch, no deal. Checked when I got home & it said BOUGHT
Drooy!, hehe, well, I got 5 shares!! LOL. Think I'm gonna lose money
on that deal unless it quadruples!

others-- I am so fed up with the Clinton show I could puke. I change
channels anytime it comes up, I change radio stations if I hear his name,
Now, looks like I'm gonna have to quit this place also. I am amazed at
the hatred so many of you seem to feel for him/his wife. I don't know
the man anymore then I know any of you, but I bet if I had $40,000,000
to spend searching each of your pasts, that I might just find a few things very embarrassing to you! Then again maybe not. If you don't
like the man ( I don't either ) , if you think what he did was legally /
morally wrong ( I think so ) , then let your opinions be voiced to the
people you elected!. I can't do a thing about it, so why voice it here?

Gold production.....

China, 3.5 million ounces per year..........and given that the Chinese have been mining gold as early as 4000 BC.........how much gold do they have ? ........ALOT........????!!!!

Japan, 350 000 ounces per year..............lots of US Treasury Bonds....

The only apparent option that Japan has at this point is to purchase as much GOLD as possible, and ASAP..........and it most likely will not be from the US....... if so from whom, the BIS ?

The chicken and the egg.........who laid the egg ?!

=============JINS

Greenstone Resources have some wonderful projects in Nicaragua !

I hope this means the indictments too. Should I happen to die the day Hillary is indicted the undertakers would never get the silly smile off my face.

For a look into the secret sex lives of some of the most
vocal family value republicans go to the Salon Magazine Web
Site http://www.salon1999.com/ for some interesting articles - cjk -

And I use the word amazing in a limited context...The drop in metals today was incredible. It turned on a dime just as the dow started to recover. Without knowing anything about what occurred in the trading pits today, it looked to me like either a classic short attack or a huge producer dumping big time on the market.

@OAK...With respect to Clinton. I laugh when I see him on TV. I also admit to be tired of the whole thing. I also don't care what he stuck and where he stuck it ( other than for my own perverse interest ) .

However...What if an audio tape of Clinton and Monica ( or video for that matter ) existed and was in the hands of ( pick your favourite anti-america group ) and they chose to use it to leverage Clinton's behaviour ( i.e. veto on bills, allowing arms sales, etc. ) .

My point is...is he brave enough to stand up to a national security event while the skeletons dance in the closet. Does he have the balls to say 'I don't care what dirty info you have on me, I'm looking out for my country'.

He has definitely shown himself to be a coward, reckless and a little bit stupid in the head.

I'm no rocket scientist, but 700 million for Starr investigation. Is it raining or is someone pissing down my neck ?

I can understand where you are coming from re Retired Soldier's comment. However, when one posts on places like this one has to expect comments of all kinds, or normally none at all. And tough skin is required. Goldtek can and should just ignore critism and he would be better served. If Bart feels he is using too much bandwidth he will tell him, and that is what counts. That is I suspect why you did not see any other comments.

Please excuse my ignorance, but could you tell me what you mean by Mr. Jeil's charts and where I could find them if they are accessible to me.

Do you think what happened today is what Yvan Auger was anticipitating would happen prior to the XAU continuing on its upward leg? He projected the XAU would fall back to about the 60 level or so before heading back to the 76-78 area ( "C" wave of a Zig Zag ) or even head to 100-110 range ( third wave of C ) . Or are there patterns you see developing today indicating all this has changed.

Again, I appreciated your early warning signals this morning and took advantage of them. I ow you lunch to say the least.

Regards

Rolly

i am with oak.

Please see this one site by a fellow who was in a position to know:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Dreyer_infonet/guarino.htm

if you are ready for more then try this one
http://users.aol.com/beachbt/recitatm.txt

Starr was wise not to include the treasonous activities surrounding
China, satellites, missile defenses, guidance systems, supercomputers,
aircraft factories, Long Beach Naval Shipyard, Chinese facilities on the Panama Canal, National Monument to lock up low sulfur coal to help his Indonesia buddies, gutting US defenses - hardware, training and morale
and ( well it does go on & on ) .

All this would have been overshadowed by the sex stuff which is not important - but the media would have concentrated on sex and excluded the important issues. Give this current batch a few weeks to quiet down and THEN these other vital issues may be heard.

Last night, on live NZ TV news, a direct broadcast from Kuala Lumpur was intercepted by the Malaysian Government. 3 further attempts to broadcast the same story were thwarted by Malaysian Government interference. The Malaysian government, not content with jailing 2 dissenters for "sodomy" and muzzling local press, have now censored International News agencies.

One interviewee in this broadcast said that the country is on the verge of civil war.

JIN Post when you can.

ALL
I wonder if I may suggest that posts about the US President's sexual pecadillos contain the word "Clinton" in the Subject field. It would allow my trigger finger to hit the scroll button quicker. You may be suprised how little many of us care about this..

thanks, i enjoyed that.

There's glint of low-risk
value in gold

Street Talk,
By Michael Mullane

As the sharemarket heaves and ho's it
becomes increasingly harder to find value at
low risk, but gold may offer a glimmer of
hope.

The last time gold rallied through $US300 it ran quickly
to $US314.70, a gain of 13 per cent from the lows of
$US276.30. This rally took place between January and
April 1998.

Some gold stocks that participated in the rally included
Delta Gold ( 81 per cent ) , Acacia ( 83 per cent ) and
Normandy ( 37 per cent ) .

Recent moves took the price of the precious metal
towards $US300 an ounce, only to be rejected.

Technical analyst Richard Lie says this is the third time
since late June that such a swift rejection has occurred.
However, Lie says that since those price rejections gold
appears to have formed a long-term support at $US277
an ounce, and some positive short-term technicals
indicate the likelihood that gold will rally in the short-term
to at least $US315, and possibly $US330.

Lie also says that the recent nervousness in world
sharemarkets has caused investors to look elsewhere,
with some moving into bonds and some punting on the
gold market.

He says that those short on gold have begun to cover
their positions. A rally would become self-perpetuating,
as those short positions would scurry even faster once
the price of gold shot above $US300.

Despite such a scenario, the fundamentals for gold are
still poor and an enduring long-term rally is unlikely. But
it's clear that gold bugs don't need to be long-term
holders anymore, but traders of the large swings

Suspicious: Thanks! If that is the deadline for the final report, not much time for KS to get his act together.

Silverbaron: Your words of caution are appreciated. The gold shorts still appear to be in control, despite the apparent bottoming of gold bullion around $280/oz. However, the US dollar has gone from 102 to 96 -- should have a bullish effect on gold eventually. We must also watch commodity price indices.

up, up, up and away........in my beautiful ssm???
oh yeah.......

http://www.digisys.net/futures/chart/ts_cha14.gif

the crude one.....my.my.my......yes, i know....
there is a huge supply.......makes you wonder why?

cherokee....dotssm....feeder.of.the.children.of.the.option.sellers..

btw....this is a buy....technically speaking..
crude that is.

Jeil is one of our posters who has developed a system of price and time projections for Homestake, ASA, and the S&P500 which is, hmmmmmm, very bearish for gold shares ( at the least ) , starting around today.I have found that ( for me ) Elliott Wave counting is of some limited value in price projection, so I don't usually count on it for that. Usually the way I use it is to follow a trend until one of the Japanese candlesticks shows up which is typically a point of trend reversal ( hammers and stars ) then back-count waves from the start of the trend, to see if a trend reversal makes sense at that point ( 3 waves or 5 waves in the trend ) . Sometimes I get fooled by the wave count, but the candlestick symbols are much easier for me to recognize as 'sell' and 'buy' points.Jeil's projections are at http://www.pcis.net/jeannev/jeil.htm

Here's a nice site for the basics of Japanese candlestick patterns: http://www.why.net/users/blhill/pages.aux/murrey/candlestick.html

Only a quick sentence - 1993. Citibank on the verge ( and actually
over as we found out later ) of bankruptcy.

Recession of 1991 that just went on and on and on.

I thought 1993 was it. I was *certain*.

Just as JP is certain that 1Q 1999 is it.

Just like Puetz was certain about last November.
Just like he is certain now.

Nope. Don't buy it. If 30-year bonds, mortgages remain under
5.5% and 7% respectively, I submit to you that AG has purchased
one more year of relative calm.

You wrote" If Bart feels he is using too much bandwidth he will tell him, and that is what counts". Who is Bart? Is he from Kitco? Only tonight,I read the comment from Retired Soldier.Best Regards Goldteck.

Puking, when not permanent, but kind of from time to
time, is good - helps stocmach to get rid of too much food
or just bad food. But I agree with you , we must send
Clinton a clear and loud message that when we see him or
listen to him, we want to puke...

Why, Bart Simpson, of course. Don't ya watch TV?

Tom

Who is Bart? Let's see now...Bart is the great Precious Metals dealer in the cyber sky who came to Earth to make gold investing at least fun, if not entirely profitable, while goldbugs sit around the cyber campfire and swap stories about POGs and XAUs and Elliott Waves of yore. In this cyber campground, we have bottled our own Jinn, provenboth tolerant and uncaring of others, and occasionally one of our number rushes off under the spell of an eclipse, or other celestial phenomena, and warns the entire tribe in an excited dance. We are haunted here by Gollums, serenaded by Stradmasters, and taken to task at nearly every turn by Bug-eyed fellows named "Al." We are represented by Tortfeasor, Reified by Reify, and Ardently given the latest comex warehouse stocks of the great precious metals in the BIG SKY. Occasionally, we also stand on cherokee's shoulders and look back. But, hopefully, not too often in anger. Sometimes we have food fights. All this under thewatchful eye of Lord Bart, who giveth and taketh away bandwidth - that most manna-like of all gifts from on high. We worship Bart's largesse. His belly is pretty big too.

With consideration given to your insistance on reading
about sex lifes of republicans, my question is: are you
the secret agent of the Democratic Party?, and if yes,
what kind of handgun do you carry? We are already heavily
puking in connection with Clinton's secret sex life, so
please have mercy, I can no longer keep any food,
or even worse, any drink, in my stocmach...

With consideration given to your insistance on reading
about sex lifes of republicans, my question is: are you
the secret agent of the Democratic Party?, and if yes,
what kind of handgun do you carry? We are already heavily
puking in connection with Clinton's secret sex life, so
please have mercy, I can not no longer keep any food,
or even worse, any drink, in my stocmach...

with you regarding this matter as long as you like it...

Tom

I don't believe I addressed the other part of your question. As I said, Elliott waves aren't of great use to me in forecasting prices. Having said that, I GUESS that the pattern we are in is the 3rd wave ( down ) of a 3 wave reaction against the main trend ( which is up ) . If so, the end target for this wave may be in the low $280's for gold and low or mid 50's for the XAU before the trend continues up. However, it is possible to count 5 subwaves in the first wave down from near-300 in December gold, so the main trend COULD still be down, and those targets could be on the high side.

I have decided that oral sex is not sex under the definition provided in the Paula Jones case. Therefore I will not answer your question whether I had Oral sex with Monica Lewinsky since it is not relevent to charges of perjury.

This is incredible arrogance that he has made the decision that oral sex is not sex under the definition and will not entertain that the grand jury may come to their own conclusion.

Mike Sheller
Classic Kitco post! Brabo!!

All
Here is some cut and paste humour:

The Best of the Worst Country and Western Song Titles

The last one is worth waiting for, the second one was written by a NZer from Dunedin, and, to keep on topic there are a few that even mention the precious metals.

* Get Your Biscuits In The Oven And Your Buns In The Bed
* Drop Kick Me, Jesus, Through The Goalposts Of Life
* Get Your Tongue Outta My Mouth 'Cause I'm Kissing You Goodbye
* Her Teeth Were Stained, But Her Heart Was Pure
* How Can I Miss You If You Won't Go Away?
* How Can You Believe Me When I Say I Love You When You Know I've Been A Liar All My Life
* I Changed Her Oil, She Changed My Life
* I Don't Know Whether To Kill Myself Or Go Bowling
* I Fell In A Pile Of You And Got Love All Over Me
* I Flushed You From The Toilets Of My Heart.
* I Keep Forgettin' I Forgot About You
* I Wanna Whip Your Cow
* I Would Have Wrote You A Letter, But I Couldn't Spell Yuck
* I Wouldn't Take Her To A Dawg Fight, Cause I'm Afraid She'd Win
* I'd Rather Have A Bottle In Front Of Me Than A Frontal Lobotomy
* I'm Just A Bug On The Windshield Of Life
* I'm The Only Hell Mama Ever Raised
* I've Been Flushed From The Bathroom Of Your Heart
* I've Got The Hungries For Your Love And I'm Waiting In Your
Welfare Line
* If I Can't Be Number One In Your Life, Then Number Two On You
* If Love Were Oil, I'd Be A Quart Low
* If My Nose Were Full of Nickels, I'd Blow It All On You
* If You Don't Leave Me Alone, I'll Go And Find Someone Else Who Will
* If You Leave Me, Can I Come Too?
* Mama Get The Hammer ( There's A Fly On Papa's Head )
* My Every Day Silver Is Plastic
* My John Deere Was Breaking Your Field, While Your Dear John Was Breaking My Heart
* My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, And I Sure Do Miss Him
* Oh, I've Got Hair Oil On My Ears And My Glasses Are Slipping Down, But Baby I Can See Through You
* Pardon Me, I've Got Someone To Kill
* She Got The Gold Mine And I Got The Shaft
* She Got The Ring And I Got The Finger
* She Made Toothpicks Out Of The Timber Of My Heart
* She's Got Freckles On Her, But She's Pretty
* Thank God And Greyhound She's Gone
* They May Put Me In Prison, But They Can't Stop My Face From
Breakin' Out
* Velcro Arms, Teflon Heart
* When You Leave Walk Out Backwards, So I'll Think You're Walking In
* You Can't Have Your Kate And Edith Too
* You Can't Roller Skate In A Buffalo Herd
* You Done Tore Out My Heart And Stomped That Sucker Flat
* You Were Only A Splinter As I Slid Down The Bannister Of Life
* You're The Reason Our Kids Are So Ugly

As one who watches ( or lurks or whatever as long as it doesn't include cigars ) ...

That was beautiful and should be included as an intro at the top of the page.

Kumbaya...

"...Words mean exactly what I want them to mean, no more and no less..." I believe that comes from the book, Alice In Wonderland.

CC - I hope you were able to take advantage of the SnP trade ( 9/21 5:24 ) , if so you should have 30+ points profit. The market closed right on the intersection of the 1x1's on the Gann chart. This is one of the most powerfull turning points on the chart. If the market gaps open above 1034 and takes out 1038 it could accelerate up to 1055 and possiably 1070. On the other hand if it opens even it could collapse. We'll have to wait and see the opening.

Gold and Silver look as if they are doing wave c of an abc correction. The weekend silver trade was stopped out with a 5 cent loss, Dec Gold long at 293 was filled today. It may go a little lower then the 290 stop, 289 or 288 be prepared. Try buying the dec silver tomorrow at 4.82.

Current Positions
Long SPZ8 from 1001.50
Long GCZ8 from 277 and 291
Long SIZ8 from 4.85

Richard Nixon at least had the good grace to step down out of respect for the dignity of his office. WJC will not, and insodoing will cloud
the credibility of his successors. In the eyes of the world and US citizens both.
However, I find it hard to believe that the US markets shrugged off
overnite market performance just because this tape was so predictable.
This can only be defined as continued irrational exuberance.
And current market reaction here is EMOTIONAL. Good for gold.
Am watching Jeil's charts, and they are cold and without emotion.
Too darned accurate. Jeil, have a heart!

I just saw your handle come up a few posts back and I owe you an apology for reacting very sarcastically to one of your posts a few days ago. This is the first time I noticed your name since then. It was uncalled for on my part- sorry! :- (

Retired soldier needs to show some respect. Is that what they teach you in the military, how to be a as#$%le. I prefer to get the news as apposed to this person's opinion, too much Clinton not enough market news.

http:

//search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19980921/V000710-092198-idx.html

The stratfor report conjectures Japan's domestic inaction conceals a strategy to compel the world ( G7 ) to bail out its banks. This analysis is supported by statements of Japanese leadership and examination of the political impossibility of the other options: wildly inflate or an American S&L style bail-out. Japanes mention of the alternative of "economic stimulation fueled by military spending" is interpreted as added pressure.

I heard someone say that since we elect leaders in Demoncratic Socialist countries to do immoral acts like make war for oil, take from some and give to others with the taxing power, etc., why does it matter if the elected have good morals or not ? This viewpoint turns the purpose of government as expressed in the Declaration of Independence and common-law upside down, but given the government we have, it is actually a quite reasonable question and underlies, I think, many of the expressions of support always forthcoming on behalf of the exposed incumbent.

Individuals Representing Satan. I.R.S. Truer than disbelievers can know.

I'm betting it'll just go up, this bull is never going to die. The political stuff doesn't matter, I've seen so much about Clinton lately that even I think he's innocent. Nobody cares about the money supply even though we'll have to wrap Christmas presents in 24 carat gold this year because the FED will be busy blasting pictures of the first dead person across anything that will hold a spray of ink. We watched as the international monetary fund chucked dimes into the hat over and over until they got to see the legendary Russian dancing bear, the currency is so worthless now that a pile of ruble and a box of crayons will be entertaining Natasha's kids for decades, and the only thing people are interested in buying from them are September plutonium futures. In Japan we're hearing that consumer items will soon be priced in denominations of the some, bunch and pile - we're already past the point where a few Yen and a dollar buys you a penthouse apartment in downtown Tokyo, and the banking system has no hope of a quick recovery. And through everything - in the land that Seinfield built, John Q. can't even look at the recent market decline without holding the graph in front of a mirror to double-check his investment strategy. I swear the earth itself could open up and swallow Wall Street into a burning hell and I'd have to listen to some Abby wannabe on television tell me how market had already discounted it. Yes sir, the market will go up from here, and I hope it does, because any news bad enough to kill this bull would scare the hell out of me. But I'm not bitter.

Bill Clinton is reaping the rewards of the socialist agenda of a more open & persmissive society. Monica is a product of that environment.

All: More from Campaignfundgate/Chinagate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/

politics/special/campfin/stories/chung092198.htm

Please paste above together to get URL.

just a bit dismayed........GREAT POST @ 21:39....G&P to YA!!

September 21, 1998

Clinton to ask Congress for $2.3 bln in farm aid

NEW YORK ( Reuters ) - President Clinton will ask Congress to free up $2.3 billion in emergency relief for U.S. farmers, now facing the worst agricultural crisis in a decade, the White House said Monday.

It said Clinton supported a plan by Democratic lawmakers to provide increased income subsidies for farmers by uncapping market loan rates and was asking for the emergency funding to help respond to a year-long slump in crop and livestock prices, as well as losses from drought, hurricane and plant diseases.

All: For what its worth, they think we are still in a general equities bear market. Worden Bros focus mainly on the technical, and did not see anything bullish over the last few days.

Today's action:

I think that Silverbaron's comment is the closest to the mark today: 'Buy on rumor, sell on news' Classic wallstreet moves.

And, we should have guessed that WJC's testimony would go over well -- that is what he is good at -- he is mesmerizing. What you have to do is go back over what he has said and done, and decide for yourself whether or not he has lied. WJC sounds so very very good. He, like someone else we know, is a master of lies.

So Kenneth Starr has to Sept 28 for his final report. Not much time for the 'coup de gras' if it is to appear.

Noticed here recently your dialogue with a boomer regarding who is supporting who in this socialism started by FDR and Social Security.
You were both right. This is the confusion that socialism brings.
Along with class/age/generation anymosity.

Tho he attacked first, ignore him/learn from him as you will feel the
same in a precious few years.

Regards & Namaste

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980921/boq.html

I read 7.3 Trillion US buckazoids, not 2.3 ... hmm...

21 SEPTEMBER 1998 RUSSIA

CENTRAL BANK BAILS OUT RUSSIAN BANKS

The Central Bank on 21 September announced that Russian banks still owe 30 billion rubles ( $1.83 billion ) in interbank debt, Bloomberg reported.
Three days earlier, the Central Bank pledged to cover outstanding interbank debts with new loans. It also agreed to buy back most banks' defaulted treasury bonds.

In theory, those measures will preserve the country's banking system and shake out the weakest banks, which will promptly go bankrupt.

However, by printing such a large amount of new money, the bank risks plunging the country into hyperinflation.

According to Interfax, Inkombank President Vladimir Vinogradov said in a speech on 20 September that Russian banks should surrender key stakes to the state. He added that he is prepared to give up 50-75 percent of his bank to preserve Russia's banking system. JAC

...LEAVES FOREIGN BANKS DANGLING

Meanwhile, "Kommersant-Daily" on 19 September predicted that large Western investors might wage an "economic war against Russia" because of the Central Bank's most recent action to buy back defaulted bonds from Russian banks.

Some Western banks plan to take the matter to court and to seize the accounts of some Russian banks.

They also plan to present their grievances to the IMF and the governments of the Group of Seven. Recently, some Western banks banded together in order to conduct negotiations with the Russian government on debt restructuring. JAC

STATE TO IMPOSE NEW CURRENCY CONTROLS

In a move some analysts are predicting may trigger the rebirth of the black market, Prime Minister Yevgenii Primakov pledged on 18 September to introduce a requirement that exporters sell an additional 25 percent of their hard-currency revenues to the Central Bank.

At the very least, analysts reckon that exporters will try to hide their proceeds from government scrutiny. JAC

RUSSIA TO IMPORT GRAIN

Because of the poor harvest, Russia will be forced to import some 2 million tons of grain--mostly wheat-- this year, ITAR-TASS reported on 21 September, quoting a spokesman for the Ministry of Agriculture.

The spokesman said that an estimated 56 million tons of grain will be harvested before winter, some 37 percent down from last year's level of 88.5 million tons.

According to Interfax on 20 September, this year's harvest is only a little better than the worst harvest recorded over the last three decades, when Russia produced 55 million tons of grain. JAC
http://www.rferl.org/newsline/fulltext.html

Yeah, that was all just strangeness, and if you're out there Gusto, I'd like to apologize for the mis-understanding. It was my fault - I didn't make it obvious enough that my original post was tongue-in-cheek, and you probably didn't see the follow-up where I actually tried to start a real conversation before you posted ( I knew you were kidding around too ) . No ill will of course, even my last post to you was in jest. Thanks for reminding me about that Tantalus, hate leaving stuff like that just sitting out there. I'll kiss a gold coin up to the Kitco gods as punishment.

Gold discussion Group, oops, my fault I guess, missed that part that
said "Gold discussion Group with special unasked for commentary from
the society of "Independent Diatribes Insidiously Opposed To Sex"
*grin*

luv peeples who waste bandwith whilst critical of bandwidth wasters.
SWAT to the lady bugster & retired one. Had to say it. Sit back & learn-
TOLERANCE. Luv ya all.

ravenfire: Thge numbers are all over the place LIKE $13 BILLION for farm aid ( Do you expect that the small USofA farmer will see such amounts?? )

Also included is a number of $254 MILLION for SOUTH KOREA ( Why not from military budget ??? )

``I don't think farmers have grasped the amount of money that is being mobilized,'' said one congressional staff worker. He estimated about $13 billion would be showered on the U.S. agricultural sector in the space of a few months.

As part of the supplemental package, Clinton also requested emergency funding of $254 million for the Defense Department to help repair, clean up and reconstruct U.S. Army and Air Force sites damaged by recent flooding from monsoons in South Korea.

I think you will find Kitco has a little-bit for everyone. I've been here over a year and I have already been told how to:

- build a y2000 survival hut
- gauge the pro's and con's of different firearms
- trade SnP and other options
- monitor monetary supply
- etc.
- etc.

Welcome to a truly strange place with some very very smart posters.

Just don't let anyone get under your skin. Occasionally a spat will arise but usually everyone here self-monitors pretty well.

I may have missed some of the previous discussion; however with regard to the XAU index I believe minute wave b of minor wave 2 ended today. It stopped within 30 ticks of the wave one high a week ago Friday. Wave c of 2 should last a couple of days to near the end of this week. We should then see wave 3 of ( b ) unfold and break us above the 300 mark with some gapping action. This wave count is supported by many of the senior golds as well as intermediate producers.

Your last two sentences really hit home. If? When? this bull market ever dies, the first thought comes to mind is: Be scared. Be very, very scared.

All this yellow and white junk I'm sitting on and yet I'm fearful of what we will see if it becomes something of value.

Doesn't make me feel good that I want to keep buying.

Good post, as always. Thanks

Jerry

culture and mores of Insansistan can we absorb before going completely bonkers ?

There is NOTHING on the charts that says the bull is back. The dow can move up to ~8200 and still be in a bear hug. The 200 DMA is around 8550. Today's action was simply that the "Sex, LIES, Obfuscation, and Video Tape", wasn't worse than expected, indeed, it was less than was feared. Couple that with the Jewish holiday and 'light' trading, and you had a market that was set up for a wide swing based on emotions. The emotions happened to be negative overnight and swung wildly positive during the day. Probably some more follow through tomorrow and then a wreversal Wednesday?

If anyone thinks that the BULL is back, just take a look at the new 52 week highs versus the new 52 week lows. That is not the stuff of BULL markets...

Anyone that screws a cigar, undoubtedly covets a horse.

I'm not naysaying your find work. Its just that we have been whipsawed so much in the process that I'm feeling a little bit weary of the whole affair. I'd like to see the metals shine but have been very disappointed. I'm affraid that if they do show their stuff there will not be much happiness in my heart for all the pain I've been through recently ( on their account ) . I particularly do not like the manipulation aspect - which shows my naive and simple minded view of these things.

The agony of it all. I'd just like to be in the black and watching it all go our way for a long stretch. Unfortunately every time it looks like its going that way we get hammered. This is one of the reasons I sort of look forward to a meltdown .. because the SOB's deserve to lose control and get burnt alive down to their wingtips and then some.

The Y2K thing is a definite monkey wrench in the gears of this machine. Even without it we would be looking at a pretty bad situation here as you and others have been exploring. But the infrastructure is totally at risk here as well. How do you factor that in when people do not even factor in the obvious economic stuff???

IMO Y2K + Euro + PresentFinancialCrisis = sh!t^3
If you get my math there. And it will not stop there by any means. We have a long, hard row to hoe and no hoe to hoe with.

All IMHO with all caveats applied.

Sincerely I liked your post on Bart,it was good humor.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980921/bpj.html

no updates from Tokyo for last 1/2 hour.... hmm....

Your right, I'd been lurking for about 6 months before I posted. I've
seen most of what you mention. Don't have a problem with people getting
off the subject ocassionally, but since I don't have access to the market
during the day, when I get home I head here 2nd after checking all the
financial sites. I come here to hear opinions & views on why things did
what they did & what the future might hold. And your right about some
pretty smart people being here. So guess I'll put blinders on & try to
avoid the Clinton garbage. Just hope this doesn't keep on to the degree
it has.

Granted, I am a real estate agent, but their is a little principle known as diversification. If you are loaded up on our precious and still can't resist buying more, you do need help. My advice? Buy some income producing property. Put anywhere from 10 to 25% down, let it carry itself and enjoy. IF we have an inflationary period, your gold may double, your property may triple and your rents may quadruple. Diversify. Caveat - If we have a severe deflation, take your lumps as soon as possible and dump the property at a minimal loss. L'Shanah Tovah All!

as untradable bonds ( which cannot be marked to market ) on the pattern of the Euro banks dealing with their Russian problem.

food for thought....from mr adams...

http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/warart.htm

read on....a blast from the past....from kitco

http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/peak.htm

I'm with you there, in the waves. Still looking for that generator phone number as well. If you have a tractor then you can hook a gen set up using some pulleys and a generator portion from a gen set which has the motor burnt out. Rated HP should be 2x the wattage output of the generator. So a 5 KW gen will need a 10 HP or more to drive it. With a typical farm tractor there shouldn't be a problem-o.

Sojourn
Do I understand correctly? You see the XAU breaking through 300? Do you have any charts to support this?

mozel
I suspect you mean "Bonkers" in the US sense, rather than the English sense? :- )

PMF
If you've been paying attention, you may have learned a little about rugby, cricket and sheep, not forgetting cooking, of course.....


All
In the interests of assisting cultural understanding, may i present a short noo zilund dickshunry...

a medgen - Visualise, conjure up mentally, John Lennon's first solo album, 'Imagine' was a "bug hut" in NZ.
Betting - "Betting gloves" are worn by "betsmen" in "crucket"
Brist - part of human anatomy between "nick" and "billy"
Bugger - as in "mine's bugger than yours"
Dimmer Kretz - those who believe in democracy
Error Buck - Language spoken in countries like "Surria", "E. Jupp" and "Libbernon".
"Guess" - Flammable va pour used in stoves.
"Chick Out Chucks" - Supermarket point of sale operators
"Colour" - Terminator, violent forecloser of human life
Phar Lap - NZ's famous horse was christened "Phillip" but was
incorrectly written down as "Phar Lap" by an Australian racing
official who was not well versed in Kiwese.
Sheep - Sex Aid ( Baaaah Baaah )

http://www.canoe.ca/MoneyNews/sep21_emergemkts.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newslink/nat/newsnat-22sep1998-74.htm

some background info:

In Malaysia, the ISA is a ruling that enables the indefinite detention of people deemed dangerous to the security of the country, without trial and without pressing any formal charges.


With all the foreign journalists still hanging around Malaysia from the Commonwealth Games, Mahatdir has sent a powerful message to everyone regarding how he runs the country. He should have quit while he was ahead - now he may well go the way of Soeharto.

btw, did anyone hear how the Malaysian authorities deemed it necessary to "jam" live broadcasts of video footage of the KL riots by foreign journalists? the BBC has apparently already lodged a formal complaint...

written by our own gov't.....candid facts about
the coming israeli/arab war......

'twas posted here long ago.......

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/mewar.htm

cherokee!;..past.due...too....consider.the.implications....

conspiracy? within the media?

http://www.fas.org/2000/conspiracy_commerce.htm

hell yes.........

Two things:

1. I agree with your request for the word Clinton in the subject field, for all comments related to the non event du jour.

2. Your list of venerable ( by afficionados only ) country tunes overlooked this one by the venerable Little Jimmy Dickens: "Does yer chewin' gum lose its flavor, on the bedpost overnite?"

http://www.canoe.ca/MoneyNews/sep21_geneva.html

back to the ussr.....with a vengence.....

http://www.inforamp.net/~jwhitley/russ.htm

There are some who believe we have escaped the plunge into the abyss.

There are some who feel we have already plumbed the depths of September.

These and the rest shall see the bear is not a shallow creature.

Today the dreaded video tapes proved to be more of a positve than a negatve, yet the market couldn't even gain 40 points.

Today as the market turned, the shorts rushed with renewed vigor to sell the metals. Those who so blindly rush in will find that a month which comes in like a lion does not always go out like a lamb.

Tonight the globex points mostly up, and many would say tomorrow the market will rise.

We have seen the wedge, and it portends that with tapes, and reports, and other minor distractions now out of the way the market will once turn from soap opera to the theatre of reality.

We see very few bright lights on that stage, few lights indeed.

Dunno. What is bonkers in the other English speaking countries ? Some obscure cricket term ? Or do they go bonkering through the tulips in their tupperwear ?

have been moving against the POG trend. I managed to get some PGD for $1.15 last week, and it's been driting up ever since ( closed $1.39 today. )

I think this is a good sign. People are accumulating. I think the most important observation made recently was that of Steve Kaplan, who noted that commercials are net long gold whicle 'traders' are net short. He regards this as bullish for the POG, since the commercials are the ones who are in touch with what the market will do, short-term.

- Steve

A most surprising post, Sir. Totally appropriate but mostly out of character. BTW, your choice of exponent was too low. .... {:- ) ) Not to worry, our day is at hand and we will prevail. It just won't be tomorrow.

have been moving against the POG trend. I managed to get some PGD for $1.15 last week, and it's been driting up ever since ( closed $1.39 today. )

I think this is a good sign. People are accumulating. I think the most important observation made recently was that of Steve Kaplan, who noted that commercials are net long gold whicle 'traders' are net short. He regards this as bullish for the POG, since the commercials are the ones who are in touch with what the market will do, short-term.

- Steve

Enjoyed the great posts!
You folks save me hours searching for "news"
5000 BANKS..give me a break..why not just say "ALL" of them!
If I remember, I think the farmer with the loan did not sell the corn
but forfeited the corn . Now the USG has food for a weapon in there big game.

in the valley where The Jolly Green Giant walks. :- )

Mooney, on his 22:51 post has some good advice, but I don't like the caveat right now. And I guess I'm getting a little to wrapped in this Y2K thing.

It's still go gold though

thanks, Jerry

G'Dam_, Mame, I been away too long! Since when did cherokee start posting charts? Nice one bro', but got ta let ya know, that that slo-mo was in buy mo' wheen she's a gap a froma 1425 ta a 1445. BTW - Where's a my pal Pepino di Cortino?

Tom

Thank you, Noble Other Who Fears Not To Denounce Conspiracy when you find it nor hangs back from the Hunt but comes on with Golden Bow, for the honor. Remember Waco.

Envy@rubles.and.crayons Enjoyed that! Thanks for a needed laugh.

MikeSheller@Who.is.Bart and why is he so kind to us? Sheller humor is the best tonicshucks, it is jin & tonic!

Allen@You.have.the.right.of.it God bless.

Mozel@untradeable.bonds Merrill wants you to head up a new division{:- ) )

Goodnight All

mozel
bonkers hereabouts has more to do with "tupperware" or as you more correctly put it "tupperwear" than lunatic asylums. :- )

Earl
also missed
"You're right, I'm left, She's gone"
"Don't Boolgie Woogie ( When you say your prayers tonight )
"Pregnant Again"
"Ride 'Em Jewboy"
"Elvis has left the building"
"Stand on my own two knees"
"There's nobody home on the range anymore"
"Your wife's been cheating on us again"
"Big balls in cowtown"
"If i lay down the bottle, would you lay back down with me?"
"I still hold her body, ( But I think I've lost her mind )

posted again.........

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/mewar.htm

better read what the past says about your future.....

Another way to look at the match between generators and the drive engine is to use the HP conversion factor.

That is 745 watts per horsepower. That does not incorporate losses so, add 20-25% ( for losses and marketing BS ) to the pure number and that should give you a rough idea of how big an engine will be needed for the output desired.

5kW should require an engine of about 9 HP. Since 9 is not a common rating, it goes to 10 HP.

If you believe clinton's definition of sex...then you believe he
is a virgin. Impeachment will come soon and very swiftly. Gold wil
soar and the stockmarket will dump. Copy and paste this post.
crash date 10-12-98. This came to me in a vision last night.

yep, TyYoung,
we must've went through a kitco-warp between Ravenfire's & Oak's posts at 22:51. It was "normal" when I last loaded up the posts back at 19:42 - but even those are now back in the blue warp.

Mozel and Aurator:
Is that tuppering through the tulips in their bonkerwear?
With blue crayons?

why america thinks it has to run the world.....

http://www.theatlantic.com/atlantic/issues/96jun/schwarz/schwarz.htm

hey earl....muy amigo.....tambien.....kitco-emeritus-writerus....yesurus.

ravenfire
yrs truly posted something on this earlier, but forgot to mention ominous signs at Melbourne International Airports duty free shops yesterday "We regret we cannot accept Malaysian Currency"

rich - Is that 10th of Dec. or 12th of Oct.? Got to be absolutely sure of our dats when checking out this visiions - Dowwnchaknoww?

Has anybody read the opening artical on derrivatives in Barrons? This could be the straw that breaks the BULL's back!
This could get real ugly real quick. WE must not forget Japan needs the yen to come home for the BIS audit ( 8% )
"Japan banks sport derivative exposure equal to two quadrillion yen- a
mere four times GDP". Sounds like the NY banks got the rising sun by
the ying yang.

By the way--- just how many ZEROS are there in that figure?

You do have sound advice. Am I going to follow your advice, proably not. Why? Because ( and I'll get hammered for this ) it is not liquid enough for me--- at this point in time.

I've been in and out of six homes since 1969. Including one four unit apt. building. I have been able to taste some of what you are saying. Made money on all of them.

I am spread out abit, even now, but I'll tell ya, I do love this yellow and white stuff. Cavet is right--- and you know what mine is.

Thanks

Jerry

Mooney
Are there shamans hereabouts too? Visions? Missed 'em. Would someone plse point me to em?

cherokee, have you been having visions too?


Im_as_blue_as_my_new_tattoo_@what_happened_then?

Tupping_@crayons_R_US

Shanah Tovah!?

What the hay you talkin' 'bout? When the hay ISN'T cherokee havein' visions?

From regs...

( b ) - 'fixed currencies' shall mean currencies which are maintained within a maximum spread at any given time of 2,25 % or less within the European Monetary System; - 'floating currencies' shall mean other currencies of Member States or of third countries;

( c ) 'correcting factor' shall mean a coefficient which: - from 1 January 1993 is equal to the coefficient referred to in Article 6 ( 1 ) of Regulation ( EEC ) No 1677/85 and as applied on 31 December 1992,
- thereafter, is altered by the Commission, whenever parities are realigned within the European Monetary System, in line with the highest revaluation of the central rate of the fixed currencies against the ecu;

( d ) 'representative market rate' shall mean: - in the case of a fixed currency, the central rate for the ecu fixed within the framework of the European Monetary system, multiplied by the correcting factor,
- in the case of a floating currency, the average exchange rate for the ecu with respect to that currency, recorded over a reference period determined in accordance with the procedure laid down in Article 12 and multiplied by the correcting factor;

( e ) 'agricultural conversion rate' shall mean the rate used in legal instruments relating to the common agricultural policy, to convert:
- amounts expressed in ecus into the national currency of a Member State,
- amounts expressed in the national currency of a Member State into ecus;

( f ) 'monetary gap' shall mean the percentage of the agricultural conversion rate representing the difference between that rate and the representative market rate.

Prices? HA HA HAmy personal favorite is the 'monetary gap'.

Wanted to share thiscause I didn't see any reason why my head should be the only one aching! {:- ) )
Goodnight for real

I believe it has been our collective experience that numerous visions of many stripes have come and gone on this humble site. Only those of a negative bent have proven 100% accurate. For example, Glenn since he cast off, forever, his gold bull mode ( to be taken jocularly ) .

May I suggest that we begin to rate visions on a scale related to their psychogenesis.

The first order of business would be to list all possible sources of these vision things, before attempting a weighted scale of probability. Having done that, it should then be possible to conjure a system of weighting that would allow one and all to observe, at a glance, the likelihood of it coming to pass. ..... Just a thought.