'Sub-Prime' Lenders Hurt in Credit Crunch
http://www.latimes.com/sbin/iawrapper?NS-search-set=/36241/aaaa000o52414b3&NS-doc-offset=6&NS-adv-search=0&

The companies' fierce competition for borrowers fueled a surge in home equity loan originations, which are expected to total $55 billion this year, compared with $7 billion in 1990.
Now, however, the Wall Street funding that provided much of the capital for these loans is drying up, as recent severe losses in foreign financial markets and in the U.S. stock market have caused major banks and brokerages to shrink from risk-taking.
That has already forced some major sub-prime lenders into bankruptcy and decimated the stocks of most others.
"It's reaching fairly cataclysmic proportions," said Michael Sanchez, a portfolio manager at Hotchkis & Wiley, an investment management company in Los Angeles. "In the 11 years I've been in this business, I've never seen anything like it."


Quarterly Statements Jar 401 ( k ) Investors
http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/BUSINESS/t000092931.1.html

"The reality of seeing their losses there on paper is really driving people nuts," he added.

Cast your spell, and bind him
Lightly as you can
Weave your woman spells, and
Bind to you a man.

Take heed how you bind him
Be clever as you can
Never take too lightly
The measure of a man.

The everlasting partner
Hunting, questing he
Take care how you bind him,
Bind, but keep him free.

Surely she shall lose him
Who counts his manhood won
Her spell must bind him gently
Or all will be undone.

--
A warm and hearty congratulations.
-------------

Nick@C
Same to for you matey.
Seems that your good woman has woven the right spell ( :- ) ) )

Cast your spell, and bind him
Lightly as you can
Weave your woman spells, and
Bind to you a man.

Take heed how you bind him
Be clever as you can
Never take too lightly
The measure of a man.

The everlasting partner
Hunting, questing he
Take care how you bind him,
Bind, but keep him free.

Surely she shall lose him
Who counts his manhood won
Her spell must bind him gently
Or all will be undone.

--
A warm and hearty congratulations.
-------------

Nick@C
Same to for you matey.
Seems that your good woman has woven the right spell ( :- ) ) )

Sub-prime lenders deserve to get their corporate heads handed to them.
Today I heard a radio commercial inviting homeowners to apply for loans. The kicker is the tag line *No equity required*. So, homeowners who are already borrowed to the hilt can borrow still more. The greediness of the lenders these days is beyond anything I have experienced, ever. And of course, even with a slight upturn in interest rates, many debtors will be unable to stay afloat. And the layoffs, they are happening!

Here's another. related item. My daughter got behind on some of her bills last month. Nothing more than a severe case of inattention. She was 7 days late paying her second mortgage. Now, with that debt, she pays 1% of the total balance, each month, and most of it goes to interest. Only a small portion goes to paying the debt. With a 2% late-pay penalty, she effectively will need to keep paying longer, to pay off the entire amount.
I can't say whether many credit card issuers are tightening their policies, but I can say that they are definitely making the penalties more likely, and more costly. Shearing the sheeple.

Kule!
Now I don't seem to be able to add a comment on regular site as the Comment button isn't dowloading properly, hmmm. so this is added from LL's 'mazing 'mirror site.


"Exporters say the unexpected surge in the New Zealand dollar is killing off new business prospects and eroding confidence.

The ( NZ ) dollar has soared by nine per cent in the past week, and yesterday hit a five month high against the US dollar."

http://www.nbr.co.nz/Detail.cfm?ID=949255&Page=2512

Gee, and I thought Bretton Woods was imposed to lend stability to currencies. Almost 10% change in currency in one week? That's what I call volatility, and it's also what I call a nutcracker. Get caught in pincers like those, my lad, and it'll end in tears.

AURATOR: ( re your Tues. 01:28 ) ...Jolly Good!...rapier sharp...as always.

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^N225&d=1d

HighRise

Savage

Thank you for your kind words.

On the road again. Stopping by the coin shops between meetings. Where'd all the coins go? Just in the past few months, a serious drain on supply. Take note, any financial industry reporters dredging Kitco for a story... Screw spot. What about the stuff you can actually BUY?

mozel, In a vacuum with no protection, the mon shall melt into the cosmos. A giant fondue! Must send shuttlesful of fresh French bread. Quick!

OLD GOLD, if only the past told us the future. Today's Internet financial markets, next year's ox-drawn Rolls Royce?

Robnoel, I give up. An oz. of crack in NYC or is it LA? You were right about the St. Gaudens. Damn, I shoulda listened...

Mooney, commercial real estate crashing, but residential dropping slowly, at least in the USA.

Asia still sleeping. Waiting for the Man with the Money in Brazil and the Upper House vote in Nippon land. High expectations... Low results.

All's well in DOWland. Pull them into the calm, then rrrrrrip their faces off.

Lesse, now. The moon is in a Cheddar phase, heading into Vermont. Head and Shoulders... with CONDITIONER! Tomorrow is the BIG CRASH!

Or maybe not.

Alas, no one knows. This is a difficult life. So many questions, so few answers. Need sleep.......

-EJ

http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

HighRise

My wife strongly suggested ( hmmm ) that I print that out.

Thank you.

"A cruise missile up your butt in Canberra?"

Don't get me excited!!
..................................
Mozel--were you ever under the illusion that the US was a democracy? For the past 100 years+ the US has been a plutocracy with periodic spells of autocracy ( FDR the prime example ) .Your constitution and the laws you speak of do not stop your despots from controlling you and every other American to a common goal, viz., the enrichment of the potentates of American industry.

The subterfuge of the constitution has been an ongoing process that has been facilitated by the mass hypnosis of the American public by the modern media. As a legal scholar, I'm sure you know that the freedoms 'guaranteed' in your constitution are only as good as your despot's forbearance. All of the control mechanisms of the American sheeple ( FBI, ATF etc. ) that you so justly decry, are 'above the law'. 'National security' is a wide cloak that covers a lot of freedoms. Your plutocrats use it well.

Forbearance, in law, is the act by which a creditor extends time for payment of a debt or forgoes for a time his right to enforce legal action on the debt. Anyone who doesn't know that the whole ball of wax is about your despots controlling you through debt is in denial ( not a river in Egypt ) . You are in debt to your government. The 'laws' are rigged to ensure that it stays that way. Your laws and constitution are the means of controlling all of the little economic enties ( you and your fellow citizens ) toward the objective previously stated ( enriching the plutocracy ) .

Why do you seem so surprised that they will use any and all means to this end?

Japan
Nikkei 225
^N225
1:18AM
13085.95
-156.84
-1.18%

HighRise

Your second link had quite good questions. For instance, why no photo of an astronaut on the moon with the earth in the background ? Thanks. BTW, I hope you really meant insubordination where you said pomposity.

The tactics of disinformation: Stonewall serious questions. Instead, give lots of publicity to easily disproved allegations and silly questions. Give the most attention to the least rational. Make everything a conspiracy debate. And everybody who questions the official or big corporate media version a kook. Or even a crazy.

PRINCETON ECONOMICS GLOBAL MARKET WATCH NOW SHOWS GOLD IN
CRASH MODE. NOT VERY GOOD. CHECK THEIR PAGE OUT AND SEE.
THIS WAS POSTED EARLIER TONIGHT HERE ON KITCO,BY ANOTHER
KITCO POSTER.

The Japanese are unsure whether the Upper House will approve the banking bill... The Man said he'd force a vote to dissolve Parlament if the Upper House voted pro. As Donald asked, are we all missing something?
-EJ

If you have been considering, as I have, about making a donation to
Bart, please read on. I will match the first donation posted, to a maximum of US$100. If the first donation offered is $20., then I will go for it. Same with $50. Same with $100. Let's show our support. Push beyond your own personal barriers, and do it *now* . Thanks.

You can call it whatever you want. Contribution, dues, annual subscription. Whatever. But do give back to the guy who makes this *truly* enriching website possible.

The last referendum did not result in separation, it did result in the Canadian dollar going into a nosedive. Of course the separatists must win the election before separation. Do you remember what Parizeau said after losing the elections and resigning? He said that had they won the election he would have separated immediately. He also said that he would only accept the part of the debt he felt was fair and that they would only pay that if the rest of Canada cooperated with them. If in doubt about the Cdn $ going down prior to the election check the charts.

Good trading

OK so Japan and the rest of the Asian markets are down.
Pakistan is up 12+ points as I write this! This will certainly be bullish for the big rally tomorrow. Expect a special feature on CNN tomorrow about the hot new goat futures market. Maria Barteromo will break this story. Remember...you heard it here from me first!

For a while there I thought Denial was a river in Canberra. But, I see now it's not.

@EJ Like I said, what good does it do you if gold drops to $250 if you can't buy any ?

A couple of days late--Happy Columbus Day to the New Columbians out there. Did you know that Columbus on his 4th journey to the new world ( 1502? ) landed in present day Nicaragua. He saw there a people bedecked in gold ornaments. Just recently they have discovered two large stone igloo-like structures about 60 miles from the coast in heavy jungle. May be a whole city under the vines. They think it could be a lost civilisation hertofore undiscovered. Are these the people Columbus saw 496 years ago? They certainly had good taste in jewelery!!

Hearty congratulations are in order to Mike Sheller and Nick of Canberra. Pearl is the traditional symbol of the thirtieth anniversary. Appropriate, seeing as how these two often drop pearls of wisdom for all at Kitco. Just attended my grandparents' 77th wedding anniversary last month. Looking forward to Grandpa's 100th birthday on November 6th. We discussed hand operated pumps for wells and Gold last week.

Wondering if retailers are holding out for higher spot, tho.

Now, fess up. Are you FROM the moon and you're trying to throw NASA off the trail? It's ok. You can tell us. We're your friends.

-EJ

Right on, my sentiments exactly. Quebecer's should feel free to leave if they want to but they should also take their share of the debt per population. By the way, I live in British Columbia. We pay the Fed $20 billion a year and receive $4 billion in return. Guess who wants to separate next if we can beat Alberta to it.

http://www.nypostonline.com/business/5510.htm

$500 Billion in Aid Would Be Available
By Sandra Sugawara
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, October 14, 1998; Page F01

TOKYO, Oct. 13Japan's lower house of parliament today approved bills to make available more than $500 billion to stabilize Japan's banking system, but analysts warned that the massive bailout package might do little to improve the banking system, promote growth or relieve the credit crunch that is strangling the economy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1998-10/14/070r-101498-idx.html

I agree. ( sub-prime lenders )

Don't where I ever got the idea that easy credit was equivalent to indentured servitude, but there it is. Unfortunately, the evaporation of liquidity will thrum slowly but surely across the financial net, ripping off chunks of human lives in its wake.

Is this your modus operandi or your mea culpa?

"The tactics of disinformation: Stonewall serious questions. Instead, give lots of publicity to easily disproved allegations and silly questions. Give the most attention to the least rational. Make everything a conspiracy debate. And everybody who questions the official or big corporate media version a kook. Or even a crazy."

http://dynamic.webpoint.com/news/tribune/story/0,1021,70009542,00.html

G'Nite all.
-EJ

A while back you wrote a compelling letter about, what else, the moon-landing thing. ( And yes, it was a good exercise for me, thinking. )
You ended with some words to the effect that, with a government that isn't honest with you about that thing, what can you expect of them regarding Y2K? Let me turn that around, as I know what I know, also. With a government that is not honest about Y2K, what level of honesty can I expect of them in regard to moon-walking or *anything else*?

Also, what's his name, the astronaut who is making the "trip" again...
Can't you picture him, a year later, doing TV commercials in which there is a shot of the moon in the background, and he holds up a big chunk of substance, and smiling, he says, "Why? For the cheese." ( That idea has my copyright on it. )

Nope, not from the moon. Just, like you, an alien enemy to the federal government ( since 1933 ) .

For Mooney/BEJ ..
Platinum forecast is chart based .. Son made original
forecast but it should be clear to most people. If
you want fundamentals to go with technicals try ..

1. Jewelery in JAPAN is a large component of total
demand. It is probably off. At least The likely
PERCEPTION is that it would be off.
2. Cat converted demand is the other component of
demand .. for further comment see ( 1 ) above,
3. In general platinum should be more sensitive to
industrial activity ( or perceived future activity )
then gold .. thus the ratio of the platinum price
to the gold price should decline.

I trust that will suffice.

Wall Street to fire thousands, hedge funds in agony, insiders bailing out,... likening this to the Titanic: while a mad scramble for survival prevails in the engine room, passengers ( individual investors ) stand on deck stupigly looking at pieces of ice.

ERLE ..
You said that always DOUBTED
Disney's first law ..
Well now you see !! Faith was
REQUIRED .. to make it hold.
Fortunately, I anticipated that
someone would weaken and had it
covered with LAW NUMBER TWO

Have you stopped beating your wife ?
I was describing the tactics of NASA ( and local amateur imitators ) in dealing with us disbelievers.

..that you have noted my each and every word over the past year.

It's good to know that I remain one of your gurus, that you have taken the time to herald my each and every word. Likewise, you extoll every word pronounced by Puetz, another one of your gurus ( I know, you'll deny it...but anybody who hates Puetz the way you do must surely have been under his influence, lost money at some time, and scapegoats him today. The blame rests with you, twerp...you're the one who made the bad trades, NOT Puetz! )

Why don't you do the same with Greenspan and Rubin? Why don't you send them regular E-Mails noting the contradictions, inaccuracies and mistakes of their various prognostications. After all, at the beginning of the year, Greenspan ( champion of the Great Bull Market ) was stating that economic global contagion would not adversely affect America and would only present deflationary benefits. Then, last month, he spun on a dime and declared that America could not hope to be an oasis of prosperity and that global economic contagion would definitely cause problems in this country.

What a contradiction! Greenspan, one of your BULL idols who you worship like you worship GOD...yes, he acutally made a major error in prognostication. Why don't you go and hound him, you little fascist twerp? Go ahead. YOu obviously have nothing better to do with your day.

Fortunately, under the handle, Realistic, you never make any forecasts. So, in your own mind, you remain the embodiment of perfection. Of course, even if you made erroneous forecasts, there is nobody on this forum who would bother to look up your dreary, dull words. They are of no interest to anybody.

That's probably because you are one huge intellectual cipher, with nary an original thought in your head.

Thanks.

F*

Thanks.

F*

You always stand on the verge of likeability...

...and then you jump off. If you are going to challenge reason and common sense, you had better have a thick skin.

... while you may..
For Bugal
Maybe they need those wiretaps you are concerned with
to locate and silence those who realize the moonshots
were phoney.. obviously.. watch your back .. dont get
involved..

Impressed your gullibility .. you dont happen to be
from Queensland too, do you ?

... and why NOT a shot of MOON, astronaut, and erf ??
... tell you why .. the only good planet animations
they had available had "Looney Toons" written across
them.

I plan to post as often as I can, given my currently busy schedule.

The gold market is interesting today, sitting upon a powder keg, just waiting to explode upward.

What a rocket shot awaits.

Thanks.

F*

Quite so. Pass it on. Fraud is criminal.

as mozel has quoted his exact tactics.
................................

Date: Wed Oct 14 1998 01:58
Nick@C ( mozel@moon walkers ) ID#386245:
Is this your modus operandi or your mea culpa?

"The tactics of disinformation: Stonewall serious questions. Instead, give lots of publicity to easily disproved allegations and silly questions. Give the most attention to the least rational. Make everything a conspiracy debate. And everybody who questions the official or big corporate media version a kook. Or even a crazy."

Well made some dough with ASA calls .. finance my tutzis..
who are off !! Offensive time in Eastern Zaire .. on to
Kinshasa.. and all that sort of talk.
They looked great .. I mean PICTURE IT .. 20,000 Tutzis
in Confederate Uniforms singing "Dee Bonnee Blue Flag"..

.. but Im glad to get them off my lawn..

I'm somewhat comforted that at least I got to the edge of likeability. I recommend a thick skin for anybody who gets in a kitco fray. Maybe knee jerk reactions have immunity in Australia and this is a cultural misunderstanding.

Welcome back, mate.

"What a rocket shot awaits."
............................
Or even a moon walk!!

Hey, cool. Neat trick. Bald faced lie. Since you want to win so badly, call yourself topdog from downunder, have a beer, and put one on the barbee.

On the Honeymooners, "One of these days Alice, POW! To the moon!"

Mozel ..
I dont know if Id say that you got
as close as the EDGE of likeability ..
.. maybe almost a few moon rocks
from the edge .. though ..

Only joshing General .. you're a
stand up guy..

I stand in awe of the power of de
Gommints to hypnotize their slaves.

Many thanks for your kind words. You are indeed fortunate to have parents who have celebrated a 77th anniversary. I would give anything for just one more day with mine.

http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Markets/Y2k/Y2k_Emails.htm
The threat is NOT from COBOL or mainframe systems... the problem is from embedded systems. Chip code that WILL FAIL. McGladrey just finished a major project with a midwest power distribution company. It is going to fail. 60% of the PLC's tested ( 600 of a sample lot of 1000, against an installed base of over 200,000 ) FAILED!!!... the company in question does not have the revenues to mount a remediation effort that allows for a lineman to go to every pole and test to see if it is compliant or not... then there is the issue that the mfg's of the plc's are, to this day, producing non-compliant PLC's.

Also I added these email letters I've had recently as they make me wonder what GPS systems will have problems?
These emails are from a GPS manufacuter. Navtech.

http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Markets/Y2k/GPS_story.htm

I, too, stand in awe of the power of de gubmints to hypnotize their slaves. Particularly, now, when the evidence is in that they can do it to the slaves of other gubmints whole oceans away.

...on this moonwalk site.

Aussie gold shares finished down 2.35% today. Rather insipid action. People not confident of the big move up some of you are predicting. I feel less burdened now, having sold 2/3rds of my position. I will buy again on more correction. If gold goes through 300 for the third time this month I will sell my wife into slavery ( after I have beaten her ) to buy every gold share in sight.

Highly interesting and relevant.
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

KITCO GOLD 101
Lesson 2 Gold Deposits
.............
1 ) Primary Gold Deposits
In OZ found in Pre-Cambrian to Devonian rocks, usually in rocks traversed with quartz. Gold is visible in the rocks and has sharp, angular edges. Types of gold-bearing reefs:
a ) Fissure veins-quartz and gold fills spaces caused by fractures
b ) Bedded veins-gold occupies spaces in sedimentary and metamorphic rocks
c ) Saddle reefs-gold found at tops of arches or bottom of troughs
d ) Lodes-gold in groups of veins closely spaced
e ) Contact deposits,ie, juncture of sedimentary and igneous rocks

2 ) Secondary gold deposits--the result of weathering of older primary gold deposits, eg, eluvial, alluvial, colluvial, littoral, beach sands, deep leads etc. ( Don't be so lazy--look 'em up-life wasn't meant to be easy ) .

Thanks to Douglas M. Stone , 'Gold Prospecting', Outdoor Press.
...................

For Tuesday 13 Oct calculated from data published in today's FT.
GOLD------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month
LIBOR--------------5.41--------------5.34--------------5.16----------------4.94
MGLR--------------4.89---------------3.88-------------3.64-----------------2.96
Gold Lease Rate-0.52---------------1.46-------------1.52-----------------1.98
( Change ) ----- ( - 0.12 ) -------- ( - 0.04 ) ------- ( - 0.11 ) ------------ ( - 0.05 )

SILVER----------1- month--------3- month-------6- month----------12- month
LIBOR--------------5.41--------------5.34--------------5.16-----------------4.94
Silver Lend Rate--4.20--------------3.35--------------2.45-----------------2.10
Silver Lease Rate-1.21--------------1.99--------------2.71-----------------2.84
( Change ) ------ ( - 0.11 ) -------- ( - 0.12 ) ------ ( + 0.15 ) ----------- ( + 0.08 )
The lines labelled ( Change ) = change in lease rates since previous day's figures.
MGLR and Silver Lending Rates are supplied to the FT by NM Rothschild .
Regards...............Dabchick

For Tuesday 13 Oct calculated from data published in today's FT.
GOLD------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month
LIBOR--------------5.41--------------5.34--------------5.16----------------4.94
MGLR--------------4.89---------------3.88-------------3.64-----------------2.96
Gold Lease Rate-0.52---------------1.46-------------1.52-----------------1.98
( Change ) ----- ( - 0.12 ) -------- ( - 0.04 ) ------- ( - 0.11 ) ------------ ( - 0.05 )

SILVER----------1- month--------3- month-------6- month----------12- month
LIBOR--------------5.41--------------5.34--------------5.16-----------------4.94
Silver Lend Rate--4.20--------------3.35--------------2.45-----------------2.10
Silver Lease Rate-1.21--------------1.99--------------2.71-----------------2.84
( Change ) ------ ( - 0.11 ) -------- ( - 0.12 ) ------ ( + 0.15 ) ----------- ( + 0.08 )
The lines labelled ( Change ) = change in lease rates since previous day's figures.
MGLR and Silver Lending Rates are supplied to the FT by NM Rothschild .
Regards...............Dabchick

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/techno/4007944.htm

BUSINESSES that rely on personal computers to run their operations should disable all Internet and CD-Rom access to minimise the risks involved in the year 2000 rollover, a British millennium bug expert has warned.

So called "compliant" computers could be infected by the transfer of corrupt data around corporate networks and the only way to ensure this did not happen was to "lock down" the system to core operations.

"Imagine the impact on Nasdaq when those companies, which are over-pumped anyway, stop selling things," he said. "There are IT companies out there which have market valuations of billions of dollars and they have never made a profit . . . it's utterly bonkers."

---------------------------------
Even New PCs Have Y2K Bug
http://y2ktimebomb.com/Computech/Management/dwalk9840.htm

In my own business, a Seattle software company that buys new PCs every 18 months, no one was worried about Year 2000 compliance on our PCs until late last year. When we looked into it, we found that 30 percent of our hardware and 80 percent of our software had Y2K compliance problems.

It's a fact that desktop hardware and software are still being manufactured with Year 2000 problems. For instance, check Microsoft's Year 2000 web page and you'll find that Internet Explorer Version 4.0 ( the latest ) will not work in the Year 2000 ( it will work in 2001, if you're willing to stay off the Net for a year - and can be fixed to work in 2000 with a download from Microsoft ) .

According to the Gartner Group, 64 percent of organizations run mission critical applications on their PCs, and 90 percent will incur preventable costs, revenue losses, or, in the worst case, business process failures due to the Year 2000 Problem in their PCs.

When you consider that more than 70 million personal computers are in use in American business and government ( another 40 million in homes ) , the problem grows exponentially. Beyond writing and sending e-mails, most organizations rely on PCs and PC networks for mission-critical applications - inventory control, forecasting, purchasing, payroll and billing to name a few. Many PC networks have custom-made software applications; others run commercial off-the-shelf applications that have Year 2000 problems. Even if some of these applications are Y2K compliant ( Microsoft Excel, for example ) , users have undoubtedly written custom macros, such as spreadsheets, using two-digit dates that won't compute in the Year 2000 ( Microsoft offers tips on fixing these in Excel ) .

Whether you work in the public or private sector, you are very likely to feel the effects of the millennium bug on the PC on your desk. If you keep track of your computer files by date, and your PC cannot handle dates properly, you'll be suddenly unorganized after December 31, 1999. In a project management application that isn't aware of the Year 2000, you will run into scheduling problems. A database that tracks perishable inventory but cannot recognize an expiration date after 2000 could cost you valuable goods.

Like Dell, for instance-- http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=dell&d=b

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=msft&d=t Here's a
better view of Dell--
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=dell&d=t

I enjoy your postings--especially the ones giving gold a value independent of the US dollar. Your tables of very useful information take a helluva lot of concentration to give real meaning. As you have spent all of this time and effort to post this valuable information, could I impose on you for one more thing? Could you give us a short summary of what YOU think the information means? One paragraph or a few short sentences. Do you compare your 'gold value' with any charting info, eg, support and resistance levels? A chart I understand. A well written summary I understand. A table of info gives me problems. Thanks for your contributions. They do not go unnoticed. Cheers, Nick.

Just reread your 04:17. MSFT and DELL are not really the stocks that fellow was referencing. However, those are worth watching since they are the lynch pins of the technology sector. If these roll over, the market could be in serious trouble. Couple that with the message given by APH about the stock market this week. Could be some fireworks the next three days, eh!

JSE Gold ( jgai ) is now sitting on the top of the 3 previous up-moves ( not including this one ) . Will we get a bounce from here, or are we in for more correction. I talked to Merrill Lynch today about buying SA gold shares directly ( $A to Rand ) instead of $A to $US ADRs to Rand. "I'll
call you straight back" he said. I'm still sitting by the phone holding my breath.

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^jgai&d=b

You've hit some nails on the head, especially with my favority post & quote of the day:


On the Honeymooners, "One of these days Alice, POW! To the moon!"

One of these days. Declining top formation setting in on gold. Looks like a roll over to me. If the market ( stocks ) drop I see everything coming down at least some- maybe gold stocks less but I sense illiquidity out there. Like Nick, though, let me see gold over $300 and its both feet back into the fire.

I just hope we see a real divergence situation develope where gold dips just a little holding technical support at 292-4 on light volumn and gold mining shares just retreating a few more percentage points - all this while the Dells and Microsflts, Coke's and other way over priced nifty 50 stuff come back to earth with a thud. When gold is unchanged by comparison money will begin to flow in its direction and there may be enough of us in the army to scale the CBanker/Hedge Fund Cabal defense wall at $300.

that you did not log onto this website again, just before bedtime? I think I am having recurring nightmares.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 03:30
Nick@C ( All Form, No Substance. ) ID#393224:
Every afternoon I take my two rottweilers for a 45 minute walk. We sneak up on kangaroos ( they know we're
there ) until they thumb their noses at us and leisurely hop off. Also on the lookout for central bankers as it will
save me having to feed the dogs.

The male rottie takes a squirt at every passing tree, log, pole and stump. After half an hour he is totally dry. That
doesn't stop him. Still lifts his leg and goes through the motions. All Form, No Substance.

Just like many Kitco posters.

I agree about hypotizin slaves world WIDE.. but thats
why they put up those satellites anyway..
.. an you right too about think skins needed on in
a kitco firefight ..
.. BUT you REALLY need a thick skin dealin wif mah
tutzi boys .. you all shoulda seen'em yesterday ..
they were beheadin FLIES wif their pangas .. in MID
FLIGHT !

jims-- 24K analysis and spot on commentary on Gold and the $300 barrier. Namaste, and a G&P to ya, mate. Speaking of speaking Aussie, just when we were feeling complacent about the Leonid meteor storm, this Australian astronomer goes and stirs things up! This bloke claims that in a meteor storm like the Leonids, there may be many more meteors than we first thought. The reason is that most are not visible. Away, to get under the covers: ) http://newscientist.com/ns/981003/nspace.html

Funny what you say. I feel exactly the same. The more it holds around the 295 area give or take a couple dollars the more it is forming a base to assault the 305 level again ( see Grizzly's ) Elliot wave chart where gold is just about to touch a steep uptrend line now any day. The only negative factor is a so called "killing zone" at 318 - 320 level-- which will have to be addressed when and if it gets there. Of course if it breaks down on the uptrend line at 294-5 then it's a different ball game again.

If you are long gold this will make you shiver.

http://www.mgl.ca/~yauger/wrapup.html

You still have time to get your Short orders put in before
Bloody Monday III on Monday, 19 October. Put your shorts in or
get them cleaned.

That is all.

Congressman Leach levels some scathing criticism and accusations at the bailout. http://www.economeister.com/news/1998_10/13/125500po.htm

The youngest son recorded part of a week-ago Art Bell radio program and insisted I listen to it.Have not been impressed with most AB guests and subject matter---faces on Mars,remote viewing,etc,but this guy almost got my attention.Claims Clinton has ordered US military to abandon launch on warning nuclear strategy-- and that we will" absorb" a first strike!The guest was a Joel Skousen--know nothing about his credibility,or whether this guy is related to Mark Skousen who writes a newsletter ( a Cleon Skousen wrote an expose on the New World Order crowd in the 1960's ) .The guest claimed that the one world bunch has gotten impatient with pace of their destroy national sovereignty agenda, and believes that destruction of US military is essential to bringing the sheep into the fold.I just visited the AB website to order a transcript of this and found out that Bell has suddenlyquiit his celebrated radio broadcast.Strange.

Globex moderately down
Yen moderately down and dollar moderately up
Bonds up
gold moderately down with silver sharply down ( presaged by Hecla )

Although globex is down we have this:

http://cnnfn.com/digitaljam/9810/13/intel/

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981014/eq.html

continue to fall rapidly. Gold leases are approaching .5% and silver
is down to 1.21% These are both at lucrative gold/silver carry
levels.

Either:

Gold and silver are set to explode upwards and the powers that
be ( meaning CBs and hedge funds ) are setting the stage for a
massive short attack on pms. Gold will rise, but be shorted
back to 285.

OR

the powers that be ( meaning CBs and hedge funds ) are setting the
stage for a massive short attack on pms, and speculators are
backing off the pm situation. Low lease rates mean huge liquidity
and low demand for borrowed gold. Without speculative shorting,
gold will blow through the 302 resistance and tackle 312 on its way
to 350.


My view is: the paper powers are laying out massive defenses here
against any rise in pms. The ultra low lease rates are a
mine field for any unwary long.

Armstrong's Princeton Group is calling for a crash in gold and
he may be also looking at lease rates. Armstrong is also part
of the paper defense package. Words are cheaper than gold at .5%.

If paper wins, we get a depression. If gold wins, we get hyperinflation, especially in the United States.

Interesting times we live in. I think I shall go to work and
hope my day job distracts me from all this. I don't even talk
to my friends at work about this stuff. They think I'm a looney.
They, on the other hand are perfectly sane, and invested in
banking stocks and mutual funds. I say nothing. Not any more.

Welcome back Farfel.

Sorry, but what are pms. and is all this going to happen now?

Index off 15 this morning when I checked .. been
there all morning.. trying to DEcide what to do. I
have on a trend line .. I am very light now .. but
reluctant to buy in yet ..
If you can .. buying direct in joburg BETTER as you
reduce spreads and can buy stuff not available in ADR
like east dagga. fees also lighter ..
On daggas .. they are a slimes reprocessor .. they
trade now at 7.8 rands .. They have just sold all their
gold slimes to anglogold for anglogold stock to
shareholders. The ratio is 0.02369 shares of anglos
per share of dagga. Anglos is pure top stuff as you
know consisting of the old vaal reefs, western deep,
the top freegold shafts southvaal .. and liquid.
So the anglos component of dagga is .02369 *298 = 7.06
plus the same ratio of the upcoming anggold div
which equates to 0.17 making 7.22. On top of this,
dagga still keeps about a year and a half of platinum
slimes plus 2 rands per share of cash in the company.
They have some kind of exploration rights in Spain
and a metal briquet operation in Namibia and Zimbabwe.
So for the difference 7.8 - 7.22 .. 0r about .6 rands
you get 2 rands cash .. the plat slimes ( salable to
implats ) .. a piece of the spanish action .. some
briqettes .. a few pounds of biltong .. a
ticket to the next cricket match .. a 6 pack of castle
lager .. golf ball hit by ernie els .. er .. AND
FREE moonrocks from Table Mountain .. how can you
lose??
But I think I would lay off until you see a move ..
index now 1118 .. a fall to 900 is a certain buyback
point .. Im uncertain what to do where we are now..

Didnt he call for a huge rally in the dollar when it was over 100 Hmmm. Also in May 1997 he called for a gold bottom in June 1998. He has about as much credibility as Prechter.Low lease rates can only be bullish as it means the demand to borrow at these levels is down. Remember it is the customer through the bullion bank which initiates the lease transaction not the CB. I believe it was a slight up tick in lease rates which presaged the slowing of this rally. High lease rates are only important when there is an actual shortage and a market goes into backwardization as did silver last fall. Since borrowing is a key source of gold sales low leaes rates are bullish in today's environment.

http://quotewatch.com/options/options.cgi?symbol=NEM&exchange=NYSE&market=stocks

http://quotewatch.com/options/options.cgi?symbol=HM&exchange=NYSE&market=stocks

http://quotewatch.com/options/options.cgi?symbol=ABX&exchange=NYSE&market=stocks

Well, the accepted read of the lease rates seems to be that we go down given the evidence that leased gold is amply ready to be feed into the market as needed. Suppose this is a cheap way to keep the hedge funds from causing any more trouble in the stock and bond markets.

I wonder how much Kosovo is playing in keeping the gold price up. Should tha treat be removed will the downtrend accelerate? Have sold down to the sleeping level - one of the backing off speculators. See no reason to stand in the way of this freight train. Judging by the number of posts here - the lack of excitment and the generally quieter tone on other boards I'd say we are going to drift in gold, drop in silver and come down hardest in PT which has to be the worst effected by all the deflationary elements at work.

Lower

http://www.tomorrowswave.com/

What's this I hear ( read ) concerning a Central Bank letting LTCM out of their gold short position "off-market" .... AND that CB lending of gold can be repaid in "hard currency" rather than gold???

If any of these rumors ( stories ) are true...do we FORGET the short squeeze that pushes gold to 360 and beyond?

In my mind, these could be the two most significant factors ( if true ) affecting gold and the "explosion to the upside" talk!!

What say ye...

Welcome back F*

pms are precious metals
pgms are platinum group metals

http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~limweech/kitco.html ( view last 20 messages ) http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~limweech/k_post.html ( add comment ) the posting page is in html. your browser will read k_post.html and generate the posting screen. If you view source, you will see all the addresses point to kitco. your password and comments will be sent to kitco straight from your browser.

http://www.cnnfn.com/markets/bridge_news/700.1.html

I'm curious - any thoughts on Gold/Silver/SnP...?

If this is the beginning of a big stock market sell off I'm damned surprised. It looks more like a climbing of the wall of worry for equities and the continued demise of gold shares. It will be very interesting to see if there is any acceleration to any of the trends developing. If I were to bet ( which I'm not ) it'd be that the dollar gains ground and the stock market puts is a nice 150 point day.

Gold??? $296;50 close today - silver below 4.80 and PT below 338.

It won't be very hard to get on Kitco in a week or so.

Farfel, recently returned, will be left to cheer on the few remaining believers.....

ROR and Rhody could you guys get together - two different views of the same thing. I don't believe that the low lease rates are going to lead to a rally in gold, however much I'd like to side with you ROR in your thoughts for the direction.

Can you tell us what actions you took in preparation for the GOLD SHORT SQUEEZE that you said would occur the following Monday? That Monday, Gold finished down and it was the beginning of a slide that lasted 18 weeks ( ! ) which drove Gold prices down to new lows!

Also, why is it that once again, the opposite of what you predicted happened?

Please let us know, thanks!

Date: Fri Apr 24 1998 14:32
farfel ( @ALL...This is NOT euphemistic.... ) ID#340302:
MONDAY...GOLD SHORT SQUEEZE ALERT!! GOLD SHORT SQUEEZE ALERT!!

Thanks.

F*

07:53 [BAC] BANK AMERICA LOANS AND CREDIT LINES TO D.E. SHAW HEDGE FUND.
07:53 [BAC] BANK AMERICA HEDGE FUND LOSS COULD REACH $1 BLN OR MORE - NYT.
07:45 [BAC] BANK AMERICA EXPECTED TO POST $100 MLN HEDGE FUND LOSS.

lease rates is happening right now. Silver is off 5 cents and gold
is also declining. My feeling is this is the final assault by the
paper interests, including CBs and Wall ST. There is now
real fear out there lest pms rise, and paper assets fall.

Your assesment looks correct to me. Rubin has stated there is to be no change in US policy toward the dollar. US policy is a strong dollar.

A strong dollar means:
1 ) Resumption in decline of Yen
2 ) US treasuries and bonds coninue to hold "safe haven" status
3 ) Resumption of various carry trades
4 ) Continued deflationary trend

Overall not good for global economics, but good for any US consumer with dollars to spend.

However.

The rattlesnake has only pulled back to ready itself for the next strike. Volatility is like a great fire. It flares, it wanes, it flares again. It is unpredictable.

Things begin to look like they are once again ASB, but then just like when you thought the guy with the hockey mask and chainsaw was dead and gone for good....

Thanks for the URL...me thinks there might be one more ride on the Yen..Target---103.5 hows that for a wild idea... thinking...there are some very weak shorts that haven't covered...esp. Tiger... think this "bubble" is all centered around hedge funds..

Wonder why I couldn't trade bonds on Mon....Everest got to....Ha.Ha..bet their portfolio had some real winners in it...gives a new meaning to the word JUNK bonds

Just a thought..Chicken man..

I welcome the current pullback in PM's as a great buying opportunity.
I hope it goes lower in the short term, since I want to add to my positions.
For those who have none, it's may be the best time..........

Do we not need short covering to "jump-start" and fuel a rise in gold?
Is that short-covering rally going to happen?
Do we have to have TEOCAWKI to get gold to take off?
Must we rest our hopes on a Y2K meltdown?
Why can't we just let market forces work?
crap....

// Keep U.S. Banknotes In Your Arsenal //

by Randy Flink
President, Championship Financial Advisors

[ http://www.homestead.com/y2kweatherman/RandyFlink.html]

The availability of currency is something every American takes for
granted. Currency is "the" medium of exchange which facilitates
virtually 100% of all buying and selling activities. A functioning
currency system enables our high standard of living. Without a
functioning currency system, we must increasingly depend on "barter",
which detracts from our ability to maintain a high standard of living.

Since the 1930s, the U.S. Dollar has performed the role of the world's
reserve currency. People, companies, and governments across the globe
trade in U.S. Dollars due to their high degree of collective
confidence in the ongoing stability of U.S. Government. This global
U.S. Dollar-based trading activity fuels a huge demand for U.S.
currency outside of our national borders. As a result, the Federal
Reserve estimates that 60-70% of $450 billion of U.S. banknotes
presently in circulation is held offshore.

The Federal Reserve recently proclaimed that it is furiously
increasing the pace of U.S. banknote production in anticipation of
Y2k-related demand. The official proclamation by the Federal Reserve
is that $200 billion in U.S. banknotes will be on standby alert, ready
to swing into action if our checking and credit card accounts falter
due to Y2k-related problems. This is significant news in and of
itself, but it is important to note that this $200 billion in currency
reserves cannot be increased due to production limitations. There are
only so many printing presses in existence and only so many hours in
the day to operate them.

This brings us to the Final Jeopardy question: "What will prevent a
significant portion of this $200 billion in additional U.S. banknote
supplies from migrating to the various corners of the world?"

The only serious competition to the U.S. Dollar as the world's reserve
currency is the new Euro, and it will not even begin to pose a serious
threat for at least several years. As long as the U.S. Dollar retains
its role as the world's reserve currency, we would logically expect
this U.S. Dollar "migration" to occur just as quickly as the new U.S.
banknotes are placed into circulation. This overlooked phenomenon
will shoot a big hole in the Federal Reserve's plan to shore up the
currency defenses domestically and leave us Americans quite vulnerable
to a shortage of U.S. banknotes in the wake of Y2k-related
withdrawals. Once the commanding officers at the Federal Reserve
realize what is happening, they will have no choice but to impose
rationing on U.S. banknote withdrawals which could heighten the sense
of Y2k panic and increase the severity of a recession.

Did I say recession? Yes, there now appears to be one on the horizon,
completely unrelated to Y2k. Combined with the anticipated Y2k
slowdown this will invariably result in cautious business and consumer
behavior and a decline in the "velocity of money."

Simply put, "velocity of money" is the rate at which money circulates.
In times of caution, there will be fewer buying and selling
activities as a whole. Money will not change hands as rapidly. As a
result, there will appear to be less money in circulation. Think of
"velocity of money" as a monetary wind-chill factor. Just like a
strong January wind can make the effective temperature much colder
than what the thermometer shows, a slowdown in the velocity of money
can make the real economy much colder than what the typical economic
barometers may otherwise indicate.

Since "money" is a rather broadly defined concept encompassing
currency, checking account balances, credit card balances, marketable
securities, and precious metals, withdrawals of U.S. banknotes from
the banking system in anticipation of major Y2k-related problems could
contribute to the slowdown in the "velocity of money" and possibly
heighten the economic contractions already in place.

Now is the time to start adding U.S. banknotes to your arsenal. Your
mission should be to gradually build a U.S. banknote reserve equal to
3 months of net income. Take withdrawals in $10.00, $20.00, $50.00
and $100.00 denominations, unless you have a lot of room to store
$1.00 and $5.00 bills. Most importantly, understand the reporting
rules on currency withdrawals. A $10,000 withdrawal will get you on
the IRS watch list, as will two or more closely-bunched withdrawals
totaling $10,000. Plan to have your U.S. banknote reserves in place by
3-31-99, because the lines at the teller windows and ATM machines
aren't likely to be getting any shorter.

---

// Y2k Weatherman Comments //

I'm sure to get an email from some wise-cracking critic who will imply
that I'm contributing to the "bank run scare" by posting this. What a
bunch of hooey! Randy and I are telling you to DO IT NOW! The system
will have PLENTY of time to absorb early, calm withdrawals. In fact,
the FED is PLANNING for it. The message is DO IT NOW.

Start now and establish a habit of periodic cash withdrawals at fairly
modest levels. By doing this, you might legitimately avoid the
"crime" of "structuring". The law on cash transactions is vague
( probably on purpose ) so be careful. The government isn't a fan of
cash because it is basically untracable and non-taxable. That is why
drug kingpins like cash, and that is why the laws on cash transactions
are somewhat vague. "Structuring" is the term applied to someone
intentionally trying to avoid the reporting requirements cash
transactions by making multiple smaller transactions under the $10,000
limit.

However, there is little need to be sneaky. If the bank asks you to
fill out the forms, do it. As much as I hate the privacy intrusion,
and as much as I despise the restrictions on our freedoms from this
stupid regulation, it is the law to report cash transactions of
$10,000 or more or closely related transactions greater than this
amount. DO NOT BREAK THE LAW. It is not worth it on this issue.

My policy is to withdraw several hundred dollars a week from a no-fee
ATM ( every time I fill my car with gas ) . I don't have loads of money,
so this is all I can afford to take out anyway. However, if you have
a large sum of money in a particular institution and plan to withdraw
a lump sum, it might be prudent to have a discussion with a bank
officer about your intentions in addition to filling out the necessary
paperwork.

My recommendation is to inform a bank officer about what you plan to
do, document the conversation in a letter, and send a copy via
certified mail to the bank. If you just show up one day at a teller
window and ask for $100,000 in cash, be prepared for some resistance.
[Especially if you only have $47 in your account.] But seriously, for
those of more than modest means, a little diplomacy will go a long way
when it comes to getting your cash.

Most of all, DO IT NOW. Don't be part of the 1999 pre-Y2k panic.

The Y2k Weatherman

Dispense unto them, the bitter medicine they've been force-feeding you for the past two years. Short the HELL out of the large, heavily hedged Gold producers, until they REPEND and follow Noble Kinross Gold's lead and keep shorting the f*ers until they show proof-positive that they are starting to unwind their their massive Gold short/hedge positions in earnest.

http://cnnfn.com/quickenonfn/investing/9810/13/special_q_statement/

"No one," he said, "has ever lost money from mainstream mutual-fund investing if they held it for its natural fund cycle of about four to seven years."

hmmm.........


Nick & Mike - congratulationss on many multiple anniversaries :- )

Been looking at open interest # in the gold pit...hmmmmm...193,000 futures contracts trading...309,000 calls trading...hmmmm...I thought that buying a call gives you the right to "call" a contract in the month that the call is representing ( i.e. a Nov call is for a Nov contract ) ...
now let's see..if one buys a call and wants to exercise it and there are not enough contracts for everbody are we talking about a squeeze or are we talking about a squeeze

Don't think it will happen this month... Read something about LTCM owning Nov 280 puts and Dec 310 calls...The big boys will "do" what ever it takes to make those positions winners...be careful betting against the big boys...

Just a thought.. Chicken man...

thanks for the tech explanation. Again, I commend you for providing the back up service ( long text no less! ) .

Where's the "Donald"?

http://www.economictimes.com/today/14econ28.htm

The concluding paragraph from yesterday's important article:
...
"The present crisis is not the result of market failure. Rather, it is the result of
governments intervening in or seeking to supersede the market, both internally
via loans, subsidies, or taxes and other handicaps, and externally via the IMF,
the World Bank and other international agencies. We do not need more
powerful government agencies spending still more of the taxpayers' money,
with limited or nonexistent accountability. That would simply be throwing good
money after bad. We need government, both within the nations and
internationally, to get out of the way and let the market work. The more that
people spend or lend their own money, and the less they spend or lend taxpayer
money, the better. "

The Wall Street Journal, October 13, 1998

Bankamerica Q3 Provision For Credit Losses $1.4 Bln

Quite apart from my promise to return several e-mails, I instead upgraded my computer to one of those screaming fast AMD K6 300 MHz. With AGP video and a 100 MHz bus, I only need to think about opening a program and. Zip. Its open. My computer was down for about a week as a result. I still cannot log on to receive my e-mail, but I hope to have that fixed later today.

So, apologies all around, and I promise to return correspondence by the weekend.

OK

PS.

I'll buy silver here. I'll buy platinum here. I will not buy gold here.

Yes

Sources in Ellington Capital say firm is bigger, more leveraged  and more troubled  than previously thought

http://www.msnbc.com/news/204804.asp

If we change D-Mark to , and update our scenario from the 70s to the 90s, and accept that ( 1 ) this time the "target" has been Asia and ( 2 ) the  will be revalued, it all seems remarkably familiar yes?

"the forces of the New Imperialism had regained the ground they had given up in the first devaluation. The dollar previously had a relationship to gold; now, in this second devaluation, the dollar had a vague relationship to gold - to something called "paper gold." "Paper gold" is only paper, and there is no confidence in paper. The dollar was now in a halfway house.
Before the U.S. Congress could officially confirm this second devaluation, on February 22, 1973 another offensive against the dollar was made by the client followers of the corporate aristocracy. They were not going to give Europe a breathing spell this time! Another crisis!
The client followers zeroed in on the German D-mark. The bought up enormous quantities of D-marks with full knowledge it would be revalued upward, meaning they would later be able to sell the D-marks they bought for more than they paid for them. This is how they would make their profit. Another front was opened. THIS TIME THE CLIENT FOLLOWERS BOUGHT GOLD WITH THEIR AVAILABLE RESOURCES."
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/4588/thecad.txt

- - - U. S. I m p o r t s o f M e r c h a n d i s e - - -
GOLD BULLION NT UNDR 99.95 P GOLD NONMTRY: GOLD CT
( HS: 7108121013 ) ( SIC: 3339 )
Unit of Qty-Gram
1993|94,499,970|1,091,107,317----94,499,970|1,091,107,317
1994|68,964,750|849,610,783------68,964,750|849,610,783
1995|77,441,057|958,332,725------77,441,057|958,332,725
1996|106,010,585|1,323,036,938--106,010,585|1,323,036,938
1997|168,789,918|1,850,547,639--168,789,918|1,850,547,639

addendum: 1998 imports sufficient to "distort" Australia's export trade stats

- - - U. S. E x p o r t s o f M e r c h a n d i s e - - -
Domestic Exports-------------------------------Foreign Exports
Year---Quantity-------Value----------Quantity-----Value
GOLD BULLION UNWROUGHT, NONMONETARY
( HS: 7108121010 ) ( SIC: 3339 )
Unit of Qty-Gram
1993 |659,813,688 |7,624,955,057 ( FE ) --758,009|..8,554,701
1994 |335,143,320 |4,071,456,539 ( FE ) 2,370,467|.30,342,860
1995 |277,082,905 |3,362,026,328 ( FE ) 1,408,646|.16,944,433
1996 |405,208,190 |4,997,973,004 ( FE ) --123,630|....464,301
1997 |390,253,993 |4,266,937,018 ( FE ) --274,358|..2,409,160

Gollum@We're.all.paranoids.now Mozel made a nice distinction re: policy ( those in power ) v conspiracy ( those not in power )

I would like to know if anyone can verify what Gold Dancer found and reported on yesterday:

Date: Tue Oct 13 1998 15:40
Gold Dancer ( ON THAT BIG SHORT POSITION IN GOLD ) ID#430221

Namely, that the terms of gold leasing are such that the leased amount does not have to be paid back in gold.

If true, some 8000 tons of implied short overhang has vanished and the so called leasing of gold amounts to outright sales by the Central Banks.

The person doing the leasing, of course gains the benefit of opting to pay back either in cash or gold, but has the disadvantage of being in debt to the bank.

Is the amount to be paid back determined at the time of the "lease" or the market value at time of payback or what?

Date: Wed Oct 14 1998 02:38
farfel ( I'm Back. ) ID#341227:

Thanks.

F*

What is the point of banning somebody if they are allowed back on?

Perhaps some samples of the new and improved F thing are in order. He has been in his high and mighty insult mode as recently as yesterday. He can stand no discussion regarding gold that does not fit into his narrow tunnel vision. He instead bullies and beats on those who disagree with him. He hates the USA and last week said some pretty horrible stuff regarding people who have served their country in the military. He bad mouths Kitco and all on this site who do not agree with him.

This is not right to allow him back.

Bart, can I assume that any and all atrocious behavior is now tolerated on this site? Can we swear and insult people's race and their families, just as F lump has done in the last week? Just how rude are we allowed to be now? The F log exposed this site to the worst sort of vile behavior ever witnessed. Is this the threshold we can now cross? Should we view F spot's behaviors as acceptable and act the same? These are not rhetorical questions.

We should, at the least discuss some of the lump's boneheaded mistakes, several more of which were made as recently as last week.

We will do this, yes?

Yes.

08:57 TSY'S SUMMERS: RUBIN TO STAY TREASURY SEC FOR 'AWHILE' -DOW JONES.

09:49 [IP,MMM] DOW INDUSTRIALS SINK 28 POINTS, INT'L PAPER FALLS EARLY.

Se USA site yesterday forum for Friend of Another. Some elucidation!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/190000/images/_192684_greenspan_150.jpg

family likeness, perhaps?

:- )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/190000/images/_192684_greenspan_150.jpg

family likeness, perhaps?

:- )

Why is it Mr. Munk that i feel you have joined the establishment and your loyalty no longer lies with the industry that made you stinking rich! It seems that on a number of fronts you have turned your back on not only the Gold Industry but more importantly your shareholders. I have knowledge sir that your recent study of your hedge position was completed with a strong recommendation to cover! Your proposed share buyback has been left in the corner and now today I hear rumours that you have been an active seller in the market! The central banks have with an embarrassing degree of business acumen lent gold out and now have been faced with the big question of RISK! As a long term shareholder of Barrick I have to admit that your actions could be quasi-criminal and it may take an average working stiff to uncover what i see as the equivelent of a major market manipulation scheme. If these rumors are indeed true and you have been a seller over recent weeks sir, the facts will hit the table sooner or later and your reputation will slip into the bre-x category or lower. I urge you sir to reply to my letter and deny these allegations or at least justify why you would be selling gold into the market at these levels. The question of your share buyback would also deserve some explanation! In closing I would like to say that it would be very interesting to delve into the possible legal ramifications of your actions as they relate to the competent administration of a PUBLIC Company. Yes Mr. Munk Barrick is still a public company and under the right circumstances you may one day be forced to justify your actions!

Who Is Running America?
http://www.nidlink.com/~bobhard/usfraud.html
The Bankruptcy of America, the Corporate United States,
and the New World Order.

Info on the FED - Rockefeller Shadow Government
http://www.nidlink.com/~bobhard/fedchart.txt

------------------------------------------------------
The elements I see assisting the y2k crash are the fundamental ownership
of all the things that we depend on like food, fuel, power, government,
communications, banking, transportation... The same folks that funded
the mass production of computer technology and chips and the protocols
of programers to use only two digit dates in things like SS and Medicare
and banking... The same elements that y2k fixed morgage compainies 30
years ago and cerdit card compainies recently. The same elements that
own the FMS that writes gov't checks and owe big time on SS, Medicare,
Welfare, but just 'some how' over looked y2k. The same elements that
prevent mass media from covering y2k warnings and any effective gov't
y2k help. The same elements that want to stop unmonitorable cash
tranactions, want a digital money cerdit system, that want to reduce
world population by 75%, that want controlable deperate people, that
want total control of all the world under the NWO, that want a new
religion that worships creation instead of the creator. Do notice that most of what is at y2k risk in our lives is fundementally controled by these not
so dumb elements with very mean motives and long range plans.

If the rumour is correct, than rather than looking at the covering
scenario as a negative, the bailout partners may find this as an
opportunity of the highest sort.
If you can control when the covering takes place, you can plan for a drift up in POG to 325-335 or beyond. Knowing this you can position
yourself in mining shares and hedge options thereon. Timing is everything
in the market.
The 10 percent reduction in covering the gold short can be more than
compensated for by profits in the greater side menu. The banks involved have sufficient capital to use this situation. However,now that the FED has made them partners, market manipulation is not as likely.
Is the FED involved for reasons other than a possible massive stock price depression caused by fire sale asset unwinding? Could not this particular Gold position, if used unsupervised, become the seminal event in a rise in POG? which leads to a drop in US$ - which leads to global financial disruption?.
If, as recent posts suggest, CB's will unwind this position 'off market' then a true disaster is averted.
As Buckler and others have pointed out - the Euro is coming, and there should be a strong desire from Europe and the USA to keep POG smooth during the inception and transition period as world CB's adjust their reserves. A rocketing POG will usurp both the Euro and US$ at the junction of the event.
The FED cannot be considered incompetent, their planning for the Euro and their desire to keep the US$ as THE reserve currency must be exhaustive. Interest rates and the POG are two of their only tools.

http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?FS=+%3Ch3%3EMoney+%26+Instability

Everything looks so peaceful. Bond markets all calm. Little baby DOW asleep in it's crib.

Have we now heard the only shoe to drop?

Hits keep coming against tarnished hedge fund industry
http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/biz/101498/biz19_11297_noframes.html

BankAmerica reported tersely Wednesday that it took a charge against third-quarter earnings due to a relationship with a single customer. A source familiar with the report and speaking on condition of anonymity referred a reporter to a The New York Times report that BankAmerica lost an estimated $100 million from its exposure to the hedge fund D.E. Shaw & Co.

Has anyone had any business dealings ( coin purchases ) from CERTIFIED
MINT, INC. out of Pheonix, Arizona? I am considering Platinum Eagle
purchases from them since their prices seem better than Monex
with whom I already have an account.

Thanks.

BankAmerica profits drop 78 percent
ASSOCIATED PRESS
CHARLOTTE, N.C., Oct. 14  BankAmerica Corp. reported a 78 percent third-quarter earnings declineWednesday due to losses on world financial markets and the costs of merging NationsBank and BankAmerica. The company said it earned $374 million, or 21 cents a diluted share, compared to $1.73 billion, or 99 cents a share, for the same quarter a year ago.

PRINCETON ECONOMICS GLOBAL MARKET WATCH SHOWS GOLD IN CRASH MODE.
SOURCE..PRINCETON ECONOMICS INSTITUTE.

You may recall about a year ago... I told you that there was an event, a threatening terrible event occured to my family, which I could not tell you about. Because of that event, and a succession of other events, what you're listening to right now, is my final broadcast on the air. This is it folks, I'm going off the air and will not return. And what I will tell you now is what I told you then. When the time comes when I can tell you what occurred, I will tell you, through the press, through the media, of one sort or the other. I will explain to you the entire thing, it's not that I want to hold anything back from my audience, however, for the protection of my family, until it is otherwise revealed, I can't discuss it, I won't discuss it. And if you were in my position, you would do exactly the same thing. And when you finally hear whatever it is, what it is, whenever you hear it, I think you will then understand.

At any rate, I wanted to tell you, I didn't want to go without saying a word, so I'm telling you now. What you are listening to, is MY FINAL BROADCAST. It's been a good run, and you've been a great audience, and it's been an absolutely incredible forum. And my presumption is, that the forum will continue. At any rate, it certainly is my hope, that the forum

will continue.

And again when the time comes, when this information can be released, you can be sure that I will release it, and I would assume because of the magnitude of the forum that I have held, at that time, you'll get the whole story. But the time will come when I will tell it.

So for now and the foreseeable future, that's it! That is the end of this man's broadcast career.So, thank you, and goodbye...

( Art Bell, 2:55 AM, Oct 13, 1998 )

Don't think that boy ever studied Orient culture...sorry girls...but.. over there its a "boys" club only!!...Let's see if the Japanese send
Rubin's squaw home with a arm load of bonds to sell... the Japs still have some nice profits in their bonds... a profit is a profit no matter what you eat for lunch..

Gollum...ZZZZZZZZZZZ.... that sound IS a rattler....

Just a thought..Chicken man

The vision presented in your 10:37 is disturbing.Would you be
suggesting that there are powerfull interest groups, in fact,
acting to exascerbate the problems that will occur and take
advantage ie.control.Your posts are much appreciated and welcomed.

Martin Armstrong indicated in his
briefing of today the German
government indicated ysterday, to
Reuters, it would go along with
IMF gold sales. Has anyone found a
documented source for this
information?
Thanks :- )

http://www.nobel.se/announcement-98/economics98.html

Looking at the charts in

http://pacific.commerce.ubc.ca/xr/plot.html

It appears to me that the USD is ( or may be ) in a wave 4 down with respect to Japanese Yen and the Euro currencies ( DM, SF, FF, etc. ) and Gold is also in a wave 4 down in the same currencies......

My guess is this will last 2 to 4 more weeks for the wave 4 formation ( which looks to be a triangle or wedge in the Euro currencies ) to break down, then the USD sinks again, and gold sinks in the JY and in all the Euro currencies in the final wave 5 down.

How about Gold in the USD? My guess is that it will probably be range-bound while all this is happening to the dollar, but should begin to rally sometime in November in ALL currencies. THEN the Gold bull market begins.

Die dulci fruere.

Silverbaronridingthewavestothepotofgold

I have been obtaining price data daily for NGC from Quote.Com for the last two years, but since last week they have been unobtainable. Quote.Com still gives prices for NEM ( the holding Co, Newmont Mining ) but I prefer the actual. Does anyone know why NGC quotes are now missing from Quote.Com?
Thanks in advance............Dabchick.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981014/3h.html

Newmont Mining bought all the available shares of NGC

I believe that Newmont Mining exchanged all the NGC shares for NEM shares recently.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981007/co_newmont_1.html

Significant Fourth-Quarter Economic Slowdown Predicted by U.S. Executives
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/981014/dun_bradst_1.html

"We have a sea change in optimism levels," said Joseph W. Duncan, chief economic advisor to The Dun & Bradstreet Corporation. ``Since October 1997, the emerging markets crisis has largely had a positive impact on the domestic economy. Inflation was collared, the cost of imported goods sank, and, as U.S. Government Treasury notes became the choice international investment, interest rates fell lock step. As the crisis continued, perhaps deepened, domestic financial markets -- such as banks and investment banking concerns -- suffered. This is prompting lenders to restrict credit access. In turn, consumer spending levels and business infrastructure reinvestments drop, and consumer confidence levels sink. Even though the American economy has shown surprising resilience throughout the global economic crisis, a significant drop in consumer confidence and spending levels could hasten a significantly greater economic slowdown."

Also silvers's strting to swim upstream a little faster.

FWIW semis on a tear,banks getting a blood transfusion and gold will drop one more time tomorrow for a bounce,XAU target 63.Harmony and the other SA stocks holding up fairly well.NA will have to give back a bit more.OEX peaking tomorrow
Not a bad day.

The following are real world prices..... no CB's no mining forward sales no paper trades no sneaky government buy programs.....there are only 2 players in this market investors and collectors

PRICES ARE FROM JULY 24th 1998 TILL TO-DAY
MS61 Saints $475 today $555
MS62 Saints $485 today $565
MS63 Saints $495 today $605
MS64 Saints $550 today $725
MS65 Saints $875 today $1050


MS61 Libertys $485 today $555
MS62 Libertys $495 today $575
MS63 Libertys $565 today $750
MS64 Libertys $975 today $1225
MS65 Libertys $2500 today $2550


FYI :- )

Very clearly stated message to Mr. Munk. To get it to him directly you can get an e-mail address here:

http://www.barrick.com/

I'm getting a 403 error there now.

I have been bugging them for a few weeks for the geological info. No maps so far. I'll keep at it, but thought I would let you know

Of course, there will be posters who will be upset by it. After all, I am an ideological gold bull and damn proud of it. So, I applaud you.
You are as aware as anybody that there are those that perceive such ideology to be anti-American. It is patent nonsense. What is actually anti-American is a corrupt government's propulsion of American bonds and equities markets into the dangerous condition of a bubble. This still existent bubble threatens the integrity and safety of all world markets.

The same posters who object to my readmittance to this forum somehow feel that it is quite alright to reinstate LGB who was also banned from this forum. They adhere to a double standard that is all too obvious.

I am back on this board to point out those fallacies I perceive in the specious arguments of those who wish to short gold into the ground.

I am not alone and will do my little bit to combat a campaign of misinformaton.

Already, certain posters have begun ad hominem attacks upon my name, viciously slandering me and breaching K-1 nettiquette without any provocation from me. So, please take note of who is in violation of K-1 protocol from square one and, if necessary, then please respond accordingly.

Hi, Nick C, and Bill...thanks for the nice greetings.

Thanks.

F*

Sorry but I didn't write that one.
It was snipped from an email.

I thought the concept was rather poignant.

But as to it's actual reality - who knows?

But then again, somehow, it wouldn't surprise me.

Even if they have not forced it,
I am sure they'll have a hand,
In gathering the reins coming out the other side.

Of this I am sure.

Welcome back.

I get the impression that more and more are ...

http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Markets/Master.htm

Plus the other pages too.

Trouble is you have to find them ( :- ) ) )

Can someone clue me into who Art Bell is and why someone is targeting
him and his family?

Very mysterious post.

now let's get back to the job of getting this POG UP!!!! salud!



Dear Martin Armstong,

Would you kindly kiss my arse. How are you coming along on losing all of Princeton's funds? And how do you keep a job?

sincerely,

studio.r

The netiquette guidelines on this site prohibit postings of ANY AND ALL breaches, past and historical.

Therefore, if certain posters choose to repost historical posts containng obscenities or any other form of netiquette breaches, EVEN THOUGH THOSE POSTS ARE HISTORICAL OR MADE BY THIRD PARTIES, NEVERTHELESS THEY CONSTITUTE CURRENT NETIQUETTE VIOLATIONS. I think you will concur with this statement and take action against any posters that introduce these past breaches of netiquette onto K-1.

I will not respond to historical posts containing such netiquette breaches since to do so would be to facilitate further violations.

However, I will point out those who, in atacking me, are breaching your strict K-1 netiquette guidelines by reposting this message whenever such breach occurs.

Thanks.

F*

.

...and you know, despite the CB's loaning de facto "free gold" into the market for short speculators...

I DON'T CARE, I'M BUYING MORE!

As long as it's below 300, it's an amazing steal!

Thanks.

F*

...I liked your post regarding the distinction between the "false" paper gold market...and the real market of gold.

Those gold coin prices continue to explode northward.

A good harbinger of things to come, right?

Thanks.

F*



snowball's chance in Hades:




Gold Flash!
New WGC print advertising in Germany, France
and Italy features survey results on public opinion
about gold holdings by central banks

SOFRES - Taylor Nelson, Europe's largest opinion research firm, conducted a
survey of public attitudes concerning central bank gold reserves among 1000
adults in each of three European countriesFrance, Germany and Italy. The
respondents were questioned by telephone during July 1998, and the samples
reflect the general demographic profile of each country. ( Results are correct to
within 5 percentage points. )

WGC is releasing the results in advertising in major European daily
newspapers. The first round of ads, on the relationship between a country's
gold reserves and the strength of its currency and overall economy, appeared in
Germany on 14 October 1998 in ( Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung ) ; in France
on October 20 in Le Monde; and in Italy on October 19 in Il Sole.

http://www.gold.org/Gra/Pr/Sci/T3_9810.htm

Here's the Text for the German Ad
http://www.gold.org/Gra/Pr/Sci/D_981014.htm

Someone please teach the World Gold Council how to lay out a page on the WWW!

Sorry if I am consuming unecessary bandwidth but could someone direct me to some of the better Y2K sites. Sites that focus mainly on the issues surrounding global impact of Y2K and impact on US economy? Thanks in advance.

I feel like the prodigal son returning to his long lost family.

Thanks.

F*

I've also been sounding the warning that Bullion is getting hard to get from time to time....this has never happened before as far as I can remember.....in the not to distant future even if gold is $300 if you can't get it what does that say?

Nothing is free, not gold or loans. There was/is an agenda on their part which is hidden. Euro intro? Other reasons? Who knows! But we do know that this is a short term thing and will unwind to the benefit of those who have physical gold, IMO, regardles who has done it, why they done it or what they thought they were doing, eh? YES!

Past two days headlines ( so far ) :

Moody's commentates that Korea is bancrupt .. will take 3 years min to unwind bad loans.

Pakistan defaults on US$1 Billion loans, US$30 Billion due soon.

Sakaibara states "world economy facing 'credit crunch'

Global banks refuse to participate in Brazil bailout plan.

China exports fall 6.7% in September.

Gold bar purchases up 40% month over month in Japan.

Hedge Fund Disintegrates: Ellington Capital Mgmt. US$1.8 billion assetts, US$7.6 Billion borrowed money, positions in market - unknown.

Another Hedge Fund sells US$1 Billion CMO bonds.

Drop in interest rates ruin CMO bonds.

Fed increase money ( repos ) 10 to 20% in past two weeks.

Moody's commentary: IMF/G7 plan for Brazil inadequate.

Another Hedge Fund selling to meet margin calls: US$1 Billion capitalization threatened.

Hedge Funds lining up to liquidate positions.

Banks forcing stricter capital requirements on margins.

US$500 Billion approved for Japanese Bank bailout.

Wall Street to "trim" 30,000 jobs.

Japanese Corporate bancrupcies for Sept'98: 3 Trillion Yen.

BankAmerica reports 78% drop in profits: sets aside US$1.4 Billion to cover losses.

NY FRB President says Global Banking System Threatened.


~~~~~~~

Its enough to make one a mite cautious, Yes? YES ! ! !

~~~~~~~

Welcome back.

Welcome back to the funny farm! I have missed your ( always interesting ) point of view.

Go Gold.

I have used one dealer for the past five years.

During this time period, I have never had problems getting gold delivery for the date stated.

However, last month, I bought an order ( over 50 ounces ) and when I arrived to pick-up, my dealer informed me the gold had NOT shown up! Now, since it's a fairly long drive, I was not too pleased.

In seven years, this has NEVER happened. The dealer seemed unusually nervous about the entire matter and apologized to the nth degree. He frankly stated that it is hard to get gold out there and asked that I return in another two days.

The official position about such a snafu is that the mints do not have the capacity to meet the heightened demand. However, I would contend that the capacity is there...but maybe the gold is not!

Anyway, in my mind, the empirical evidence is in! The difference between paper gold and physical gold will soon become readily apparent for all to see.

Thanks.

F*

$455.00 09/18 1914-s st gaudens 20 dol. GOLD COIN
$536.00 09/19 US 20 DOLLAR ST GAUDENS 1927 MS 63 NGC
$446.00 09/19 1924 $20.00 ST. GAUDENS MS 62 ( COLLECTION )
$995.00 09/20 1907 N/M $20 Saint Gaudens MS-64 NGC
$575.00 09/20 1913-D $20 Saint Gaudens MS-62 NGC
$575.00 09/20 1920 $20 Saint Gaudens MS-62 NGC
$630.00 09/20 1914-D $20 Saint Gaudens MS-63 NGC
$995.00 09/20 1927 $20 Saint Gaudens MS-65 PCGS
$520.00 09/20 1927 Saint Gaudens Double Eagle, PCGS
$510.00 09/20 1926 Saint Gaudens Double Eagle, MS 62
$470.00 09/20 1907 St. Gaudens $20 Gold Lustrous AU
$463.85 09/20 1908-D no motto St. Gaudens $20 Gold AU58
$455.51 09/21 1924 St.Gaudens MS60 or Better 3 Day NR
$455.00 09/21 1908 $20.00 St. Gaudens MS 60/63
$456.00 09/21 1924 $20.00 St. Gaudens MS 62/63
$462.00 09/21 1924 $20.00 ST. GAUDENS MS 62 ( COLLECTION )
$475.00 09/21 1927 $20.00 ST. GAUDENS MS 62 ( COLLECTION )
$436.00 09/21 1927 $20.00 ST. GAUDENS MS 61/63 ( COLLECTION )
$461.25 09/21 1927 $20.00 ST. GAUDENS MS 60 ( COLLECTION )
$493.00 09/21 1927 $20.00 ST. GAUDENS MS 63 ( COLLECTION )
$406.00 09/21 1928 $20.00 ST. GAUDENS AU+ ( COLLECTION )
$580.00 09/22 $20 St Gaudens gold coin
$485.00 09/22 1927 $20 St. Gaudens US Gold NGC MS62!
$945.00 09/22 1924 $20 Gold St. Gaudens NGC MS-65
$634.11 09/22 1927 $20 St. Gaudens U.S. Gold PCGS MS64
$540.00 09/23 1908 No Motto $20 St. Gaudens NGC MS63!!
$496.00 09/23 1928 $20 St. Gaudens PCGS MS62 L@@K!!>L@@K!!>L@@K!!
$476.00 09/23 1928 $20 St. Gaudens PCGS MS62 L@@K!!
$570.00 09/23 1927 St Gaudens $20 NGC MS64
$600.00 09/25 US ST. GAUDENS $20. GOLD COIN 1927 MS 64 NGC
$510.00 09/25 1924 Saint-Gaudens $20 MS63 NCI Holder
$501.00 09/29 1909-P St. Gaudens PCGS-60 ( rare )
$523.00 10/01 1924 $20 St. Gaudens U.S. Gold Nice!
$425.00 10/02 1927 PCI AU-58 $20. Gold Saint Gaudens L@@K
$520.00 10/04 1924-P $20 Saint Gaudens PCGS-63
$515.00 10/04 American Gold $20 St. Gaudens 1924 MS-62
$590.00 10/05 $20 St Gaudens
$625.00 10/05 1910-S $20 St. Gaudens US Gold PCGS MS63!!
$585.05 10/06 1914-S $20 St Gaudens PCGS MS63!! @@K!!
$635.00 10/06 1920 $20 St. Gaudens US Gold PCGS MS63!!
$500.00 10/06 SAINT GAUDENS $20.00 US GOLD MS 63 1922

325 by 11/11

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/current/bonds.htx?source=htx/http2_mw

I see the threat you see, but in the mists of history, I see the figure of Samuel P. Chase, US Supreme Court Chief Justice after being Lincoln's Secretary of the Treasury, the father of the greenback, whose descendant institution is Chase Manhattan Bank, where sits a Rockefeller.

In the time from 1860-65 in America, was founded a government conceived in decit, born in deceit, and sustained as a matter of law and policy by deceit of the American nation and the world. It wars on them while declaring itself a government of, by, and for the people and their rights. The Founder and First Justifier of this Government by War Power, this criminal government of fraud, was Lincoln, the Great Slaver whose diguise was Great Emancipator. Deceive the people. The Law of Nations allows it. Subject them using legal word art and the resources of the railroads and the banks and the other corporations while proclaiming whatever they long to hear. Destroy their culture, common-law Law, natural law, religion, traditions, and very humanity with legalism while manipulating the better angels of their nature to enlist in crusading war for profit.

Then came FDR who destroyed the money of the people while claiming to save it and who restructured the governments of the States into Socialist Republics of Feudal, Martial Law, clones of the federal, and subverted them with greenback emergency martial law scrip, while posing, deceitfully, as the champion of freedom, and enslaved the Posterity, the Freemen, and the Freedmen alike to unpayable debt while deceiving them into believing that government benefits, founded in Ponzi finance, were for their benefit.

Lies, lies, and more lies. Every bill in Congress having a deceitful title. A bill to reform taxation: in reality a bill to increase and complicate taxation. A Bill for education: in reality a bill to dumb down the next generation. And on and on, from war to war spreading its force and fraud across the globe. Leading nations away from civilization, subverting them into modelling commerce on war, trade on war, the method of selecting their leaders on war, into war with nature. And all the while disguised with a mask of benevolence and prevarications about the rule of law.

Until now, in this day the towers sway from the rot in the cornerstones as the liars no longer know they lie so far has the corruption of their absolute power corrupted them.

There is no great, long range plan working out to Y2K. I think. There is just the Priest of Baal and his Enforcer King, the slave maker with his gun, his club, his chains, and his Tribunals. An Old Testament tale retelling in a new millenium.

Gold is Freedom; Credit Paper is Slavery.

Bloomberg reports, Time Warner Posts 3rd-Quarter Profit on Cable, Music

Time Warner Inc. reported a third-quarter profit ( ? ) , helped by strong advertising gains.

had net income of $39 million, or a loss of 6 cents a share after the payment of preferred dividends.

The results met the average 6-cent LOSS estimate of analysts polled by First Call Corp.
===========================
Preferred shares are a bit like bonds. The payment of preferred dividends is akin to the payment of interest on bonds. As far as I'm concerned this is not a profit, but a loss.

These were the words of the Prime Minister of Canada as reported by this morning's CBC news. Chretien never did elaborate.

A public Service Announcement:

The "New & Improved F spot wrote the following words and posted them within the last week on K2. It would seem that this tiger has not changed his spots, regardless of how hard he tries to pander to the very people he insults. So. Read on.

Oh. In deference to the F spot's concern over peoples feelings and that proper netiquette is displayed, I find it necessary to edit his posts to remove the obscenities, for they have no place here. The editing will plainly marked.


F spot's own words ( minus the swear words ) from the last week:

To Realistic this very morning:

"What a contradiction! Greenspan, one of your BULL idols who you worship like you worship GOD...yes, he actually made a major error in prognostication. Why don't you go and hound him, you little fascist twerp? Go ahead. You obviously have nothing better to do with your day. Fortunately, under the handle, Realistic, you never make any forecasts. So, in your own mind, you remain the embodiment of perfection. Of course, even if you made erroneous forecasts, there is nobody on this forum who would bother to look up your dreary, dull words. They are of no interest to anybody. That's probably because you are one huge intellectual cipher, with nary an original thought in your head."

[Me: To RJ yesterday, although unlike F spot, who has been allowed back on this site after insulting everybody, My password does still not work on K2]

" ( RJ...still psychotic as ever... ) ID#341227:
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
...you are a nutcase, just like Little Green Booger. I still enjoy reading your posts, full of youthful arrogance, narcissism, and misanthropy."

"Date: Sun Oct 11 1998 19:05
farfel ( LGB/REALISTIC...do you suffer from echolalia? ) ID#341227:
You know, that sad mental dysfunction in which you constantly repeat yourself and the utterances of others? What's it like to be an echolaliac? Over and over again, mindless repetition of the same old, same old? Does Mr. Schwartz accept this type of behavior at Loral? Is it necessary to adopt all these different personalities in order to function properly at your job...you know, ( REAREND ) ***kisser one second, rebel with out a cause the next? How's your 401K doing? Or should I ask?"


[Me: The implied threat is obvious in the following:]

"Date: Sun Oct 11 1998 18:59
farfel ( LGB/REALISTIC...do you still beat your wife? ) ID#341227:
...whenever the bond market or plat or silver falls? Do you still buy Loral even in the face of an impending tech crash? Do you dress up in different wigs, depending on whether or not you are LGB, LIBERTY, BUGal, or REALISTIC? How long have you suffered from your sad syndrome of mental dysfunction? What does Mr. Schwartz say about all this? Do they really know what a bad you are down at Loral?"

[Me: Standard F spot paranoia, everybody is the same guy and he is out to get F spot]

"Date: Sun Oct 11 1998 18:44
farfel ( @LIBERTY...your multiple personalities have dropped by recently... ) ID#341227:
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
..you know, you are LGB, BUGal, REALISTIC, and God knows what other handles AOL has handed out to you?? While you've been away, Liberty, your other multiple personalities have been busy posting here. Why don't you post under the handle, Sybil? Or RJujube? Not a bad idea, kid...use enough handles and make different predictions under each one, then you need not own up to the responsibility of any individual post. Hey, how's silver doing? How's plat doing? I know, they suck! Too bad, kid. By the way, sorry to hear that PH in LA made you look like the major buffoon you are! Someday, if God blesses you, PH will allow you to flush his toilet for him. If you're lucky. "

[Me: Now he does his famous trick of insulting peoples families}

Date: Sat Oct 10 1998 20:48
farfel ( @REALISTIC...your lack of faith in GOLD has proven to be WRONG!! ) ID#341227: Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

"Does your wife still sleep with you? Do your friends and relatives talk with you? Do you sit at home alone and masturbate as nobody will have anything to do with you? Do your incessant postings designed to reveal your imagined superiority ultimately prove you to be a major ( REAR END ) ***hole? Who appointed you to be policeman of the world? Do you post on other gold forums and harass those posters as well? Did you acquire your inferiority complex as a child? Did any of the other kids suffer playing with you? Why are you so inveterately boring? Do you ever do anything except ask questions? Does a single original thought pass through that empty little head of yours?"

And now he makes outrageous insults regarding his twisted and perverted ideas of another respected poster's wife's sex practices}


"Date: Sat Oct 10 1998 20:04
farfel ( @REALISTIC...YOUR BONDS PREDICTIONS ARE WRONG! Sorry, kid. ) ID#341227:
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Realistic, you have been a steady Bull on bonds, yet this past week bonds took a beating erasing well over a month's past gains. Can you explain why you remain such a bonds bull in the face of the past week's disaster? Are your friend and relatives happy with you? Do they still talk to you? Are you as big a dunce as you appear to be? What kind of sadist are you, chasing after certain posters to remind them of their occasional errors? Are you into S & M? Do you tie your wife up in chains and degrade her as you attempt to degrade certain people on this forum? Do you and LGB sit in the same little cubicle at Loral, preparing coffee for Mr. Schwartz? Do you have any analysis to offer besides litanies of dumb questions, designed to attempt to show you have a brain in the face of all evidence suggesting that you are one big huge intellectual cipher?"

[Me: And finally he tells all what a waste the Kitco site is. From a couple days ago, complete with paranoia:]

"Yet, I, too, have grown weary of this site. Tired of attempting to get gold quotes in a timely fashion...and they NEVER are timely. Impossible to access this site on busy days. I do not understand Bart. He has had at least a full year to "fix" this site and make it work properly. Yet, it is completely frozen whenever things heat up to any degree. The entire thing is broken. It seems whenever you access the forum, there is always some gold quote showing the metal DOWN a certain sum...even on days when gold is flying high. Is it accidental or purposeful? I don't know."

{Me: Now the implied threat to Bart}

"I realize that nobody is directly paying him for access to the site. It's a free lunch so I suppose nobody has a capitalist right to complain. Still, it seems to make more sense to get free quotes off Yahoo! or Bloomberg than Kitco. What is the point of coming here if it takes forever to load data...and forever to post material? It's an enormous waste of time. I believe that if he does not quickly remedy the problem, then a competitive site will arise shortly."

{Me: And most importantly he lumps all the brave souls who have fought and died for our country as being the same as a psychopathic murderer. This is the same great nation that F spot has repeatedly expressed hatred for:]

"Finally, of course, his site remains dominated ( psychologically ) by gold shorts and equities bulls. They hold dominion over all the posters, intimidating them constantly a la LGB and Multiple Personality....proclaiming themselves to be true Americans while declaring all ideological goldbugs to be treasonous traitors to the American Way. They are so full of ( DEFICATION ) ****! Whatever makes some jack*** ( REAR END ) think that if they served in the Armed Forces, somehow that makes them a great patriot? How patriotic was Calley at My Lai?"

Me:[More whining and another threat:]

"Anyway, Bart is NOT showing any degree of fairness, particularly as his ban against my posting on K-1 continues while a pardon has been granted to those other posters who also breached etiquette. The jerks can visit me, harass me, sound off obscenely against me...yet I cannot post there. They do so with remarkable, carefree abandon, convinced that there will never be any negative repercussions to their continuous assault. They are very naive, truly, they have NO idea."


[Me: And another failed promise]

"Anyway, I believe that if the aforementioned problems are not solved soon, then I shall join you at USA Gold or at golden-eagle for future discussions and leave here once and for all. Yes, I know, I have threatened to do so in the past, ultimately returning again. However, I am more encouraged to depart now since I know Kosares and Vronsky have stated categorically they will not put up with such LGBISTIC/RJUJUBE nonsense."


[Me: And he ends all these insults with the ubiquitous:]


Thanks.

F*


So don't let this guy push his nose too far up the collective Kitco rear end. All of these words are less than ONE WEEK OLD! So much for the hypocritical posturing he tried here earlier. This is an unstable person who can do nothing but swear and insult anybody who does not agree with him. That's it for the personality of the fellow. Later, the ridiculous mistakes and proclamations, several of which have already been proven wrong.

Oh, and

You're Welcome

R*

A public Service Announcement:

The "New & Improved F spot wrote the following words and posted them within the last week on K2. It would seem that this tiger has not changed his spots, regardless of how hard he tries to pander to the very people he insults. So. Read on.

Oh. In deference to the F spot's concern over peoples feelings and that proper netiquette is displayed, I find it necessary to edit his posts to remove the obscenities, for they have no place here. The editing will plainly marked.


F spot's own words ( minus the swear words ) from the last week:

To Realistic this very morning:

"What a contradiction! Greenspan, one of your BULL idols who you worship like you worship GOD...yes, he actually made a major error in prognostication. Why don't you go and hound him, you little fascist twerp? Go ahead. You obviously have nothing better to do with your day. Fortunately, under the handle, Realistic, you never make any forecasts. So, in your own mind, you remain the embodiment of perfection. Of course, even if you made erroneous forecasts, there is nobody on this forum who would bother to look up your dreary, dull words. They are of no interest to anybody. That's probably because you are one huge intellectual cipher, with nary an original thought in your head."

[Me: To RJ yesterday, although unlike F spot, who has been allowed back on this site after insulting everybody, My password does still not work on K2]

" ( RJ...still psychotic as ever... ) ID#341227:
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
...you are a nutcase, just like Little Green Booger. I still enjoy reading your posts, full of youthful arrogance, narcissism, and misanthropy."

"Date: Sun Oct 11 1998 19:05
farfel ( LGB/REALISTIC...do you suffer from echolalia? ) ID#341227:
You know, that sad mental dysfunction in which you constantly repeat yourself and the utterances of others? What's it like to be an echolaliac? Over and over again, mindless repetition of the same old, same old? Does Mr. Schwartz accept this type of behavior at Loral? Is it necessary to adopt all these different personalities in order to function properly at your job...you know, ( REAREND ) ***kisser one second, rebel with out a cause the next? How's your 401K doing? Or should I ask?"


[Me: The implied threat is obvious in the following:]

"Date: Sun Oct 11 1998 18:59
farfel ( LGB/REALISTIC...do you still beat your wife? ) ID#341227:
...whenever the bond market or plat or silver falls? Do you still buy Loral even in the face of an impending tech crash? Do you dress up in different wigs, depending on whether or not you are LGB, LIBERTY, BUGal, or REALISTIC? How long have you suffered from your sad syndrome of mental dysfunction? What does Mr. Schwartz say about all this? Do they really know what a bad you are down at Loral?"

[Me: Standard F spot paranoia, everybody is the same guy and he is out to get F spot]

"Date: Sun Oct 11 1998 18:44
farfel ( @LIBERTY...your multiple personalities have dropped by recently... ) ID#341227:
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
..you know, you are LGB, BUGal, REALISTIC, and God knows what other handles AOL has handed out to you?? While you've been away, Liberty, your other multiple personalities have been busy posting here. Why don't you post under the handle, Sybil? Or RJujube? Not a bad idea, kid...use enough handles and make different predictions under each one, then you need not own up to the responsibility of any individual post. Hey, how's silver doing? How's plat doing? I know, they suck! Too bad, kid. By the way, sorry to hear that PH in LA made you look like the major buffoon you are! Someday, if God blesses you, PH will allow you to flush his toilet for him. If you're lucky. "

[Me: Now he does his famous trick of insulting peoples families}

Date: Sat Oct 10 1998 20:48
farfel ( @REALISTIC...your lack of faith in GOLD has proven to be WRONG!! ) ID#341227: Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

"Does your wife still sleep with you? Do your friends and relatives talk with you? Do you sit at home alone and masturbate as nobody will have anything to do with you? Do your incessant postings designed to reveal your imagined superiority ultimately prove you to be a major ( REAR END ) ***hole? Who appointed you to be policeman of the world? Do you post on other gold forums and harass those posters as well? Did you acquire your inferiority complex as a child? Did any of the other kids suffer playing with you? Why are you so inveterately boring? Do you ever do anything except ask questions? Does a single original thought pass through that empty little head of yours?"

And now he makes outrageous insults regarding his twisted and perverted ideas of another respected poster's wife's sex practices}


"Date: Sat Oct 10 1998 20:04
farfel ( @REALISTIC...YOUR BONDS PREDICTIONS ARE WRONG! Sorry, kid. ) ID#341227:
Copyright  1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Realistic, you have been a steady Bull on bonds, yet this past week bonds took a beating erasing well over a month's past gains. Can you explain why you remain such a bonds bull in the face of the past week's disaster? Are your friend and relatives happy with you? Do they still talk to you? Are you as big a dunce as you appear to be? What kind of sadist are you, chasing after certain posters to remind them of their occasional errors? Are you into S & M? Do you tie your wife up in chains and degrade her as you attempt to degrade certain people on this forum? Do you and LGB sit in the same little cubicle at Loral, preparing coffee for Mr. Schwartz? Do you have any analysis to offer besides litanies of dumb questions, designed to attempt to show you have a brain in the face of all evidence suggesting that you are one big huge intellectual cipher?"

[Me: And finally he tells all what a waste the Kitco site is. From a couple days ago, complete with paranoia:]

"Yet, I, too, have grown weary of this site. Tired of attempting to get gold quotes in a timely fashion...and they NEVER are timely. Impossible to access this site on busy days. I do not understand Bart. He has had at least a full year to "fix" this site and make it work properly. Yet, it is completely frozen whenever things heat up to any degree. The entire thing is broken. It seems whenever you access the forum, there is always some gold quote showing the metal DOWN a certain sum...even on days when gold is flying high. Is it accidental or purposeful? I don't know."

{Me: Now the implied threat to Bart}

"I realize that nobody is directly paying him for access to the site. It's a free lunch so I suppose nobody has a capitalist right to complain. Still, it seems to make more sense to get free quotes off Yahoo! or Bloomberg than Kitco. What is the point of coming here if it takes forever to load data...and forever to post material? It's an enormous waste of time. I believe that if he does not quickly remedy the problem, then a competitive site will arise shortly."

{Me: And most importantly he lumps all the brave souls who have fought and died for our country as being the same as a psychopathic murderer. This is the same great nation that F spot has repeatedly expressed hatred for:]

"Finally, of course, his site remains dominated ( psychologically ) by gold shorts and equities bulls. They hold dominion over all the posters, intimidating them constantly a la LGB and Multiple Personality....proclaiming themselves to be true Americans while declaring all ideological goldbugs to be treasonous traitors to the American Way. They are so full of ( DEFICATION ) ****! Whatever makes some jack*** ( REAR END ) think that if they served in the Armed Forces, somehow that makes them a great patriot? How patriotic was Calley at My Lai?"

Me:[More whining and another threat:]

"Anyway, Bart is NOT showing any degree of fairness, particularly as his ban against my posting on K-1 continues while a pardon has been granted to those other posters who also breached etiquette. The jerks can visit me, harass me, sound off obscenely against me...yet I cannot post there. They do so with remarkable, carefree abandon, convinced that there will never be any negative repercussions to their continuous assault. They are very naive, truly, they have NO idea."


[Me: And another failed promise]

"Anyway, I believe that if the aforementioned problems are not solved soon, then I shall join you at USA Gold or at golden-eagle for future discussions and leave here once and for all. Yes, I know, I have threatened to do so in the past, ultimately returning again. However, I am more encouraged to depart now since I know Kosares and Vronsky have stated categorically they will not put up with such LGBISTIC/RJUJUBE nonsense."


[Me: And he ends all these insults with the ubiquitous:]


Thanks.

F*


So don't let this guy push his nose too far up the collective Kitco rear end. All of these words are less than ONE WEEK OLD! So much for the hypocritical posturing he tried here earlier. This is an unstable person who can do nothing but swear and insult anybody who does not agree with him. That's it for the personality of the fellow. Later, the ridiculous mistakes and proclamations, several of which have already been proven wrong.

Oh, and

You're Welcome

R*

Thanks for your 10:37, seems conter-productive for the powers that be to unwind the power that is?
Mozel- I wised up to dear ole Abe back about 1962, tried to tell friends he was a mean old man but they still insist he was a saint. Thank god for drugs, they are good for insights beyond our day by day mentality.

Glad to see the F* back, puts a smile on my face.

Sakakibara and NY FRB President have both made announcements, yesterday and today repsectively which, to my mind, echo a recent voicing in early Septmeber just prior to the conflagration of LTCM. At that time noises where being made about Japanese banks facing their worst crisis in two to three weeks .. and other very ominous comments about the global system teetering on the edge.

We all know the resultant events as they are playing out even now.

Well, here they come again. The words have changed, though the tune is the same - a dirge. The new words: global credit crisis.

Margin calls, restriction of credit, unwind positions, sell, sell, sell.

The money that is being lost in the currency and bond markets is so immense compared to the equities that we can not imagine the firestorm that is raging in those parts..yet.

Consider cascading leverage/margins.

A depositor ( major corporation, insurance company, retirement fund, government organization ) deposits 'cash' into accounts in a major global bank. Typically the funds on deposit are leveraged against future liabilities many times in excess of the current 'cash' position ( such as in the case of an insurance company or retirement account ) . Level one leverage.

The major global bank creates loans equal to 5 or 10 times the amount deposited, loaning this money out to, among others, hedge funds ( Level two leverage ) .

The investment fund using its partners capital as an asset borrows the money from the bank and sets it aside with its original capital as an asset. The fund then borrows 10 or more times the money in its capital asset base to invest ( Level three leverage ) .

The fund invests in bonds, spreads, or other derivatives which are themselves exposed in a leveraged fashion in terms of time/payout commitments - 30 year bond, zero coupon bought at say 5% or 10% of face value, but promised to pay full face value at maturity ( Level four leverage ) .

An immense pinacle of trillions and trillions of dollars in commitments has been jolted at its base and is now beginning to disintegrate before our very eyes.

Consider LTCM:

Assets: $3.8 billion
Loaned money: $100 billion
Leveraged positions in market $1250 billion

This is a leverage of 1 to 329+ ( 1250 billion / 3.8 billion )

~~~~~~~

What the hedge funds have built is a high gain amplifier. Unfortunately they are now in a screeching positive feedback loop that can only be stopped by burning out the amplifier or turning off the juice. Either way means ..

What you have in your pocket is all the real wealth you will escape this system with. The fires which rage will consume all who try to fight this fire, all who try to stay in its path, all who can not bring themselves to flee.

Got gold, silver and cash? In hand?

This without Y2K-ness .. yet.

Get the picture?
OK.

No

Only you and your cronies .

What is not right is to allow a mentally defective, braggadocios, lying, self-centered, self-serving, flaming, cowardly, greedy salesman, Clinton-clone to continue to solicit on this site.

However, the occasional regurgitation of stale company propaganda/party lines ( along with tainted market insights ) is amusing at times.

Go practice your psychological warfare, dead-horse-beating, and salesmanship techniques elsewhere.

Yes

OK

Indeedy

This gold bear market has truly perplexed me to the degree that I no longer believe I have the ability to understand the forces that have, and continue to this very day, trashed the gold market to an ever-eroding downward slide. Money can be made only by short sellers and day traders playing the trading range. For the rest of us who have yearned that one day the ineluctable logic of rational monetary forces would soon create a powerful gold bull, we must now endure "the winter of our discontent." I realize that many of you still await the "tsunami" ( as I believe tolerant 1 calls it ) , and we have all experience the adrenaline rush of the past months global and political events that seemed so promising for gold, but I have come to an entropic point in my investment career. I understand how Michael Metz feels now. He published a revealing confession recently in Forbes, owning up to the realization that nothing he learned as a young hot shot market analyst in the 70s and 80s has any pertinence in todays new paradigm. Or what about Frank Cochrane who runs a Minnesota Investment Fund who since last February has been recommending gold to his clients, expecting a massive gold run up. Closer to home, a close friend and broker for over 30 years has virtually gone broke because since 1996 he was convinced that gold was vastly undervalued and would return to a trading range between $500 and $450.

I am not attempting to refute any of the seemingly sound analysis that has appeared on this forum and in many other quarters. The present global crisis seemed a metaphor for golds neglect. Gold has prefigured the deflationary spiral we have witnessed ever since August 1997 when Australia drove a spike into the heart of an apparently recovering gold market. Yet, everything that should have proved an end to golds moribund fall from grace has not translated into anything more than a bear trap rally that now has yielded to a retracement to golds bottom, maybe even lower if one can stomach the possibility of $200 bullion prices and an XAU at 35. So if we all seemed to be so right, what happened? Why hasnt the Feds lowering its rates, an obvious concession to those who want liquidity at all costs? Why hasnt the outrageously valued Dow melted like the wicked witch? Why has the dollar begun its resurgence and Japan, despite its obvious attempt to liquidate treasuries and call home cash to prop-up its economy, seems stillborn? Why has the U.S. market remained relatively unscathed ( allowing for a 1200 point "correction that never officially even became a bear market ) in the face of global crisis? And, finally, why hasnt the frenetic printing of money that has kept every central bank worldwide working overtime produced even a whiff of inflation in our hyperbolic global economy?

Again and again, the U.S. and the IMF have underestimated the centrality of currency stability and the crisis wrought by devaluations. Asia, Russia, Latin America, and Mexico are on the brink, but gold petrifies and the goldilocks mythologists seem paradoxically in control as the Dow today threatens to break through its upward resistance.

I am humbled and confused

...tomorrow.

More yen carry unwind upwind.

Stock fire sale Friday, Monday....oil the barrels, ready the powder.

COMEX Metal Warehouse Statistics for Oct. 14

-- TOTALS
Gold 784,059 - 510 troy ounces
Silver 73,426,776 + 0 troy ounces
Copper 68,196 - 199 short tons
*****************************************************************
Boy, did the stock market buck like a bronco today, or what?!!
I guess the near term direction is still iffy...Money doesn't know
where to go....yet! GO GOLD! GO SILVER! GO PGM's! Hello, farfel!
Welcome back! See Ya! Fox-man

Century VIII Quatrain 28

Les simulacres d'or & d'argent enflez,
Qu'apres le rapt au lac furent gettez
Au desouvert estaincts tous & troublez
Au marbre script prescript intergetez

The copies of gold and silver inflated,
which after the theft were thrown into the lake,
at the discovery that all is exhausted and dissipated by the debt.
All scrips and bonds will be wiped out.

I'm speachless...

As eloquent as ever, your heart is worn on your sleeve. You may be humbled and confused but I suggest what you really are is someone who has run out of patience. Gold shares have recently been recommend be analysts to mainstream investors. Gold will drop to weed out these new ones and many of the old hard core owners. Why? Because "they" can and will profit by doing so.

I can only offer this...PMSP...patience, my son, patience...as my mom was apt to say. Good luck to you sir.

Tom

Tom

Buckler's anaysis in The Privateer might shed some light on the basis for gold's performance...or lack thereof. I do not agree with everything he writes but most is very insightfull and has been correct for over the last year I have been a subcriber.

Tom

Keep the faith professor. They have shot their wad. After this the deluge.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981013/1n.html

Gold is tried by fire...goldbugs by misery.

Remember Nathan Rothschild's famous quote "Buy when you see the blood running in the streets."?

If historical precedent is of any use, sometime in the not-too-distant future, goldbugs may be forced to the limit of their beliefs and patience. When most are giving up on gold in misery and dispair, that will be the time the next bulll market starts in gold.

We have gone a very long way, but so far we aren't there with the negative sentiment....and you are in VERY good company with your feelings. Hang in there!

Go Gold!

for Harmony, St. Helena, Randgold & Exploration, Anglogold etc. Anyone have these handy. TIA

Tom

...for what its worth:

One more rally, then THE END ID NEAR! Consumer confidence is down. When "Joe Sixpack" sees his 3rd quarter 401k statement he's gonna stop spending. In November the retail numbers will start to show dismal consumer Christmas spending. The Dow might hold ( Bearish ) until Spring. Then the Y2k scare will really begin to hit home in the masses minds. There will be a run on banks between early Summer and the Fall season causing financial failure in the banking system. This will crush the Dow. Then its over. ( This prediction does not include the impending fallout from Asia ) .

Got gold? Got silver? Got cash?

Welcome back Farfel.

Freedom!!!!!!happy you are back....!

But please take care with the bandwith ...or what ever...rrr.

Posting should be frugal for everybody here...!

DO WE HAVE TO SUFFER THE SLINGS AND ARROWS OF INSULTS AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN?...... STUFF IT!

YES INDEEDY

Welcome back Farfel.

Freedom!!!!!!happy you are back....!

But please take care with the bandwith ...or what ever...rrr.

Posting should be frugal for everybody here...!..Or we go to hell together... in the prime time.

.

My experience has been that when a market hits a BIG low after
a long decline the actual bottom is not the most difficult one.

What happens is the market ( what ever it is ) rallies into the
first leg of the bull. Usualy it is a short leg and then falls back.
It is this fall back that causes the most consternation on the part
of the long term bulls. Why? Because they need the bull to get their money back!! When they see the market take off they get their hopes up big time. Then, bang, the market falls again. During this decline
you often find the most sketicism, and during this decline the bears
refuse to get in because they think it is going lower.

This is the point during which you must forget about your emotions
and hold on. Remembering that you were early in buying, you are likely to be real early in selling. That is why it is so hard to make a lot of
money in the markets for most people.

I was way early one time in buying Natomas. I bought high and rode it
down twice. The second time I bought more and held and held and made
a small fortune when it doubled its old highs.

The same will happen to the gold shares. Lost money? Load up on the
South Africans. They are CHEAP and some day will be very EXPENSIVE.

As sure as night follows day this will happen. AND DON'T SELL EARLY.

Relax. Don't try and figure IT out, figure YOURSELF out. Then you will
know everything there is to know to make money.

Thanks, GD

HAMLET


OSRIC

A hit, a very palpable hit.


LAERTES

Well; again.


CLAUDIUS

Stay; give me drink. Hamlet, this pearl is thine;
Here's to thy health.


Trumpets sound, and cannon shot off within

Give him the cup.


HAMLET

I'll play this bout first; set it by awhile. Come.


They play

Another hit; what say you?


LAERTES

A touch, a touch, I do confess.


CLAUDIUS

Our son shall win.


GERTRUDE

He's fat, and scant of breath.
Here, Hamlet, take my napkin, rub thy brows;
The queen carouses to thy fortune, Hamlet.


HAMLET

Good madam!


CLAUDIUS

Gertrude, do not drink.


GERTRUDE

I will, my lord; I pray you, pardon me.


CLAUDIUS

[Aside] It is the poison'd cup: it is too late.


HAMLET

I dare not drink yet, madam; by and by.


GERTRUDE

Come, let me wipe thy face.


LAERTES

My lord, I'll hit him now.


CLAUDIUS

I do not think't.


LAERTES

[Aside] And yet 'tis almost 'gainst my conscience.


HAMLET

Come, for the third, Laertes: you but dally;
I pray you, pass with your best violence;
I am afeard you make a wanton of me.


LAERTES

Say you so? come on.


They play

OSRIC

Nothing, neither way.


LAERTES

Have at you now!


LAERTES wounds HAMLET; then in scuffling, they change rapiers, and HAMLET wounds LAERTES

CLAUDIUS

Part them; they are incensed.


HAMLET

Nay, come, again.


QUEEN GERTRUDE falls

OSRIC

Look to the queen there, ho!


HORATIO

They bleed on both sides. How is it, my lord?


OSRIC

How is't, Laertes?


LAERTES

Why, as a woodcock to mine own springe, Osric;
I am justly kill'd with mine own treachery.


HAMLET

How does the queen?


CLAUDIUS

She swounds to see them bleed.


GERTRUDE

No, no, the drink, the drink,--O my dear Hamlet,--
The drink, the drink! I am poison'd.


Dies

HAMLET

O villany! Ho! let the door be lock'd:
Treachery! Seek it out.


LAERTES

It is here, Hamlet: Hamlet, thou art slain;
No medicine in the world can do thee good;
In thee there is not half an hour of life;
The treacherous instrument is in thy hand,
Unbated and envenom'd: the foul practise
Hath turn'd itself on me lo, here I lie,
Never to rise again: thy mother's poison'd:
I can no more: the king, the king's to blame.


HAMLET

The point!--envenom'd too!
Then, venom, to thy work.


Stabs KING CLAUDIUS

All

Treason! treason!


CLAUDIUS

O, yet defend me, friends; I am but hurt.


HAMLET

Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane,
Drink off this potion. Is thy union here?
Follow my mother.


KING CLAUDIUS dies

LAERTES

He is justly served;
It is a poison temper'd by himself.
Exchange forgiveness with me, noble Hamlet:
Mine and my father's death come not upon thee,
Nor thine on me.


Dies

HAMLET

Heaven make thee free of it! I follow thee.
I am dead, Horatio. Wretched queen, adieu!
You that look pale and tremble at this chance,
That are but mutes or audience to this act,
Had I but time--as this fell sergeant, death,
Is strict in his arrest--O, I could tell you--
But let it be. Horatio, I am dead;
Thou livest; report me and my cause aright
To the unsatisfied.


HORATIO

Never believe it:
I am more an antique Roman than a Dane:
Here's yet some liquor left.


HAMLET

As thou'rt a man,
Give me the cup: let go; by heaven, I'll have't.
O good Horatio, what a wounded name,
Things standing thus unknown, shall live behind me!
If thou didst ever hold me in thy heart
Absent thee from felicity awhile,
And in this harsh world draw thy breath in pain,
To tell my story.


March afar off, and shot within

What warlike noise is this?


OSRIC

Young Fortinbras, with conquest come from Poland,
To the ambassadors of England gives
This warlike volley.


HAMLET

O, I die, Horatio;
The potent poison quite o'er-crows my spirit:
I cannot live to hear the news from England;
But I do prophesy the election lights
On Fortinbras: he has my dying voice;
So tell him, with the occurrents, more and less,
Which have solicited. The rest is silence.


Dies

HORATIO

Now cracks a noble heart. Good night sweet prince:
And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest!
Why does the drum come hither?

All: We should get the lesson from our more peaceable friends up north. Even if Canada pays off only some interest, and not the principal, they are still doing more than the ole' USA is doing -- which is what the Ostrich does --

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpin1f.htm

( 1 ) Precious Metals, 14/10/98:Precious metals ended another very low key session barely changed with light trading volumes Gold closed unchanged at $296.50 bid, having traded between $297.00 and $295.50. Silver ranged between $4.88 and $4.83, closed up 1 cents at $4.85 bid. Platinum closed up $2 at $343.50 and palladium gained $1 to $277.

Gold's narrower trading range may be signaling a quieter period for the yellow metal with the price likely to stay within a band of $294 - $298 this week. Option volatilities are quite high at 15-16% and as a short term play may be worth selling given the possibility of reduced activity
http://www.sbl.co.uk/>http://www.sbl.co.uk/

( 3 ) Foreign Exchange, 14/10/98:Buba's Kuebacher's comments this morning that USDDEM below 1.6000 was worrying and that if ECB wanted Buba would cut rates sent USDDEM sharply higher. Before this talk of good bids from European banks at 1.6250 had supported USDDEM. Large offers at 120.00 is capping USDJPY in short term but a break of this would open sharply higher prices and trading the break looks better option. EPA's Sakaiyai's comments overnight that most Japanese firms can live with 120/130 USDJPY opens up discussions again of Japan exporting their way out of trouble. US funds are sitting on the offer at 73.30/50 in DEMJPY. Lack of ability to push USDZAR lower makes test of upside more likely scenario.
http://www.sbl.co.uk/

Donald and Silverbaron. Many thanks for your kind responses. Now I come to think of it I did hear something about the share exchange. I'll look up that link. Thanx again.......Dabchick

...now Im outta here!

He is the ONLY poster that I have noticed that has insulted other posters' families & wives, including MINE, in the 1 1/2 yrs that I've been lurking & have occasionally posted on this site. Only someone who is truly depraved, cowardly & has sociopathic tendencies would resort to insulting others' families & wives, IMO.

Having said that, F* is capable of contributing thoughts & analysis that are well written, although his material is always biased & he is simply preaching to the converted. Unlike yourself, who has the capacity to view the mkts with a cold, albeit, jaundiced eye of logic & reason. However unpalatable your comments may be to F* & his cheerleaders, they have been of great help to those of us who are able to look at all the analysis objectively & without passion. I have made 15% shorting PDG since it topped out @ 26.15Cdn & have posted a few of the reasons why I shorted. I am well aware that this is akin to heresy to some of the fanatical GBs, but for those willing & able to think for themselves objectively, contrary analysis & opinions are invaluable, IMO.

I will never respond to any of the drivel that F* posts from here on, but felt that it was necessary to post this in the interest of counterbalancing some of the comments of his more fanatical followers.

a more fitting celebration of irony could not be foundout.........farewell, sweet ProfessOr ( Dies )

recidivous \Re*cid"i*vous\, a. [L. recidivus, fr. recidere to fall back.]
Tending or liable to backslide or relapse to a former condition or habit.

http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?db=*&term=recidivous

P.S. earlier translation: Dr. Fontbrune, 1939

First, welcome back Farfel .
Second, the long bond yield is again below 5% indicating further weakening of the US economy. Retail sales are soft and unemployment is rising. Gold shares are flirting with the 200 day moving averages at around 71 and should stop declining. Tax loss selling should start soon , why ? because new low's in many stocks will invite heavy selling before year end. This deflationary trend can't be worked off by any means. It will run to exhaustion.

Thank you for your support, and surely Tyoung has it correctly that I have run out of patience; nevertheless, I am one of those idiots who bought high over a year ago and refused to sell low. So much for patience. Even my strategies for short-term trading, though profitable on a few occasions, have been deconstructed by golds obstinate and very narrow trading range since its bottoming. Either one antes the amount to be invested short term to at least $50,000, or very little money can be made in the sort of trading range we have experienced since August. And increasing ones gold position, after enduring a major financial lobotomy does not inspire patience. Furthermore, patience resides in ones confidenceconfidence in the critique one has fashioned, the set of hypotheses to live by after careful empirical, data gathering. Thats what I was taught anyway; and, thats what I have adopted as a professional researcher. Tennyson wrote a famous elegy entitled, "In Memorium," in which he struggled to address the challenges Darwin and Charles Lyell had meant for his religious faith. He wrote, "I am an infant crying in the night, with no language but a cry!" Like Tennyson, I feel this bear market has "robbed me of the simple-minded faith of my childhood," a phrase used by W.B. Yeats to express his own confusion with Darwinian science. Well, I dont want to wax too histrionic here, Ill start biting my lower-lip like you-know-who. Still, as Tyoung says, this deflationary crisis did get gold increasing press, and, yes, some investment analysts did recommend gold, event some of the major investment houses seemed to warm-up to gold. Surely, the hoped for reversal in investor psychology so necessary to sustain a gold bull depends on precisely this sort of change of sentiment. But where is the evidence of that investors have indeed altered their perception of gold? Occasionally, the tag, "safety haven" actually got applied to gold investing; but nobody seems to have bought the advice. Even today, bonds recovered as a refuge investment, but gold stayed out in the cold.

I am becoming tiresome. But permit me one final paraphrase of the great bard

"Life {read gold investing} is a tale told by an idiot,
Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Once again, I sincerely want to thank those of you who offered support.

Hello fellow Goldbugs



I have been lurking for about 6 months now. I felt it is time to break the ice and say a hello to everyone. I have learned from all your comments and have been enlightened many times. However I'm suffering from the performance of gold. I just don't understand what is happening and nothing is making sense.

I'm interested in hearing from anyone who knows something about First Dynasty Mines. If anyone else here has heard of FDM or knows anything about it could you please share your thoughts? I'm interested in the Zod mine and possible Diamond fields near by. From the data that I have it seems very positive to say the least but I'm afraid I'm loosing my nerve as of late. The only good news is that support seems to be at around 296 and Comex stocks are gowing down.

Kind Regards
JohnnyK

Ps: "The Zod mine, compared to the world of other deposits, is an elephant.
Where there is one elephant, there are usually several more. We believe
the potential for finding more elephants in the area of Zod is
Excellent".

Ps2: "We have also heard about the Soviets looking for diamonds in the
Vicinity of Zod. Our investigation has shown that there is an area,
about 9 km from Zod that contains geologic structures that could be
Diamond bearing."

Gentlemen, you are welcome to Elsinore.
Your hands, come!
Th' appurtenance of welcome is fashion and ceremony.
Let me comply with you in this garb,
lest my extent to the players
( which I tell you must show fairly outwards )
should more appear like entertainment than yours.
You are welcome.
But my uncle-father and aunt-mother are deceiv'd.


..I am but mad north-north-west. When the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw.


Indeedy O

A great welcome back on this forun! After your departure this forum was never the same, so I decided to stop posting. But now things have changed, and, it is worth while reading again Kitco. It is unfortunate that some posters feel that they have "exclusive rights" on this forum. We have been trying to get you to post on the most active of all gold boards, the TVX board. That is where many posters are posting now and your inputs will be greatly appreciated.

Please, if you can give us the honor on the TVX board, we will greatly appreciate your posts there. Looking forward for your excellent inputs, here, or, there,

I welcome you back,

GITA, ( Gold Is The Answer ) ,

Tony BULL

Dear Mr. Kitco Personage type person:

It is with great sadness that I must notify you I may be forced, by reason of sheer boredom, to take my password and screen name and vanish in the bowls of cyberspace. While I understand this will cause you, the posters and lurkers at this site great pain, anguish and consternation, sometimes a child gotta do what a child gotta do.

My dilemma stems from certain posters that continually post words I either disagree with or violate your rules, in my opinion. While I could act in a reasonable, rational and adult fashion by just ignoring such posts, as a child with no self control and an overriding desire to inflict mental anguish on others, I can not so act. Rather, I will be forced, by my own admitted arrogance, to retaliate against all such posters and proclaim my innocence, righteousness and objectivity. Of course, when this does not work, I may be forced to run away.

Please attend to this problem immediately...allow only those persons to post that meet with my approval and should anyone post any remark that I dislike, 404 the person. I will update you daily on my directions for actions to be taken. My list of allowable posters will be e-mailed forthwith.

Now about the design of this site and upgrading the server, your selling of coins, allowing advertising and other matters...my directives will be delivered by the morrow. Should you have any questions feel free to ask. After all, this is YOUR SITE.

TIA...your friend ( even if we have never met ) .;- ) ) )

Tom

All: Anyone else having problems with Kitco?. I know I've been off due to computer problems -- Windows 95 acting up again, and 56k modem down.

By the way -- I think gold equities are down because they overshot, and pegged against the upper band of the 2 year downtrend. More buying opportunities ahead, provided that we are not heading for an equities disaster later this fall. Kenneth Starr hasn't taken down his independent counsel shingle yet, so more bad news may be coming. But -- he is very political, and he will wait till after the Nov 4 elections -- if he has anything more to present. May be alot more Republicans in Congress, too.

Re Windows 95 setup problems:

I sure would like to get my hands on a dos manual for Windows 95 -- I'm going nuts with this operating system. I have Peter Norton's book, but it is not detailed enough. All of those automated rountines that are supposed to make things easier actually are making life impossible for me!

Perhaps I should just go to Windows NT where the rules of operation are stricter.

NT is much more robust than '95, but more difficult to set up. If you are having problems with peripherals, I would suggest '95B - It auto configures much better.

Get a MAC.

HighRise

Get a MAC and just take it out of the box and plug it in.

HighRise

My dear fellow, Is it not strange, that this matter rare, from which we desperately seek security, offers us fear in return? something is rotten, Prince.

It was owned/run by Freidland of Voisey Bay fame. He was extremely lucky with Voisey--loking for diamonds & found nickel. I was lucky enough to make a large gain on that property ( Diamondfields ) which was sold to Inco. Since then everything that he's touched has turned to s*it. He was involved with a huge au property in Russia ( Khasygistan? ) & if I remember correctly ended up taking a large writeoff there. IMO, he used up all his luck finding Voisey. Even if he does find another good property, the Countries that he's involved in are way to unstable for my risk level.

Good luck.

The prescience is frightening, given the events unfolding around us.

Gold Dancer,

Your investment advice makes great sense, and I will remember it.

All,

I have the feeling that my psychodrama post has encouraged some facetious mockery. But professionally, I have had to practice a studied stoicism to endure the rabble from the rear of the lecture halls. Nevertheless one final reply. My concern was to suggest that I do value the old paradigm that gold has a role in todays monetary system. But I value Mozart and Dostoyevsky also and they seem to be vanishing like golds prominence

Last week the bond market had its worst 4 day period since the CBOT contract was created. The weekly TBond candlestick is the ugliest I've ever seen. The dollar continued to its descent. World wide stock markets are tanking. The worst performing stocks have been the banks and brokerages. Month after month another fiat currency bites the dust. The TED spread is gaining daily reflecting fear of bank insolvency.

In the middle of this chaos last Friday gold stocks started tanking especially XAU stocks. The crash in sentiment at KITCO was something to see. Despite the continued selloff in gold stocks the price of gold has held up rather well.

Worldwide gold is flying off the shelves. There is nowhere else to put your money. Its just a matter of time until the explosion in gold prices.

BUY GOLD!!!

P.S. Welcome back Farfel!

morbius: Is there a 95C?
With regard to windows NT, do I just need to dig up all the drivers for the peripherals before I dive in? What worries me is that some of my tried and true DOS software will not run -- but now I have nearly 6 nonpentium computers in worthless spare parts. Upgrading one Pentium machine to NT would therefore not be a diaster.
Just upgraded two 486's to Pentium 166's with 10 ns ram for $400 each. They run 2x as fast as a P133 according to Norton SI for Windows 95. The memory bus is currently running at 87Mhz. Alot cheaper than state-of-the art 400Mhz machines. And -- no one makes a hard disk fast enough to keep up --- even SCSI wide, IMHO.

all things change...in the fullness of time. Just got to wait for the turn.

Tom

Macs are great. I keep seeing people with PC struggling and fuming over problems - just get a Mac - solves your Y2K problems too.

NT sometimes requires NT drivers. Exactly what problems are you having?
There is no '95C to my knowledge. I have heard good things about '98, but I haven't installed it on the theory that if it ain't broke...

Highrise: I am a tried and true DOS person -- with many years on operating systems I understood. That and the cheaper flexibility of the IBM PC's are the only reasons for my loyalty. But -- you have a point now that DOS seems to be obsolete, and Mac's are cheaper.

My only point to you.....throw the damn drink in their faces....pick up your dull, notched sword and swing until you or they are dead. I apologize for my rank behavior, but I have paid dearly to possess it.

I have window$ 98 in a Pentium II 300mgz. Virtually crashproof, but very touchy about wanting Win98 programs. By the way, using the word "robust" to describe *any* software is an oxymoron don't you think?

It is a done deal.
Clinton will not shut down the government, $500 Billion

$80 Billion Tax cut gone
$18 Billion for the IMF

HighRise

Here here a thousand times with regard to martin armstrong mind you he is probably kissing too many we'll be at the back of the Que. the Schmuck

go gold and stuff the shorts

cpo

TYoung: Thank you for your 18:01. I hope the message gets through.

"Forfaiting is nonrecourse export financing. It is risk-free,
[welllll, eye of the beholder--sdrer] aggressive, flexible, cost effective and world class. It makes exporters more competitive. British -American Forfaiting Company ( BAF ) arranges forfaiting and other trade finance services primarily through European sources to U.S. companies for these countries. BAF enables you to focus on your primary business rather than trying to stay current on the sources and availability of trade finance for a particular transaction."

( 2 ) Standard Bank on 12 October 1998 [Always pays to see what Standard is about]
There have been a number of additions, on the personnel front, to the Forfaiting & Syndications unit at Standard Bank in London and Istanbul.

The London team is being joined by a group of three from Banco Santander's forfaiting operation. Dino Skandalis, who ran the global forfaiting unit at Santander, is already on board. He will be responsible for managing the unit's book ( s ) and overseeing secondary market trading and distribution. Tony Chisena, head of origination at Santander, will be joining in the same capacity. Teresa Casal, Santander's senior trader, will be concentrating on trading and distribution.

In Istanbul, Binnur Uz is expected to join Standard's co-operation partner UDAS from the local operation of WestLB. She will concentrate on developing corporate relationships in Turkey and identifying international trade flows that can be forfaited.

Meanwhile Triumph International Finance India Ltd ( TIFIL ) , Standard's co-operation partner in India, sees substantial opportunities developing locally for forfaiting. India has for the most part escaped recent emerging market turbulence despite initial misgivings following its nuclear tests earlier this year. Mr Vipul Perekh, TIFIL's director, expects Indian companies to utilise the forfaiting product much more in the future AS A RESULT OF CHANGING RISK PERCEPTIONS WORLD WIDE.
http://www.sbl.co.uk/fr_feature.html

Some very creative financing going on in the forfaiting world. O my yes. Another, albeit lessor, argument for gold. Which is about to be writ large. {:- )

morbius: I installed a 33.6 K USR Winmodem on my pentium, and upgraded to 56k with the 3comm online upgrade. Everything worked great, until I decided to remove the installation of the 56k Modem to make room for another modem. When I tried to reinstall, I somehow scrambled all my comm ports so that most do not work anymore, even though Win95 says 'installed correctly'. But the modem test routine does not work anymore -- can't dial out at all.

So far selective tape backup restoration has not not worked.

I am about ready to start from scratch and reload Win 95.

Ideas?

$80 billion tax cut gone and $18 billion for the IMF? I guess
Buchannon was right. You can find his editorial on the Drudge site.
www.drudgereport.com/. Pretty good piece.

I don't think this will go over well at election time.
It will be interesting to see if the "people" are waking up.

Thanks, GD

HAve you tried going to Control Panel - system - device manager and checking if anything under ports and modems have any little exclamation points beside them?

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/bs/story.html?s=v/nm/19981014/bs/economy_2.html

Excluding cars, retail sales barely rose 0.1 percent in both August and September. The department also revised August sales to unchanged from a previously reported 0.2 percent rise and July to down 0.7 percent instead of down 0.6 percent.

Hullo F*

I think you are being a LITTLE hard on NT.

If, for example, you install your modem on, say, COM 2 then you need to check and make sure that neither the bios nor Windows 95 installs a COM port on COM 2.

anybody got info on how to determine POG in yen?
ERLE implied yen spot = ~251?
how can this be? howdja "combine all this stuff"?
POG is ALWAYS FRN, right?
don't you just convert FRN300 ( or 298, or 310, or 320... ) to yen?
or was it something about the decline of FRN relative to yen over time?
what's the best way to see around this obfuscation of the different currencies? a relative POG chart was mentioned. anybody got one??? a link???
...can't do it without knowing how POG in yen in calculated.

TIA -- here's da post:



Date: Tue Oct 13 1998 20:16
ERLE ( glenn's prediction, ) ID#190411:
Copyright  1998 ERLE/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Might not be so far off as you think.
I checked Pacific Exchange Rate Service, ( which is a treasure ) to find the gold/currency differences in the recent past.
the USD has declined in the period of 30 Sep-8 Oct by approximately
-3.7 in Deutsch Marks
-6.5 in Swiss Francs
-14.7 in Yen

Gold
-4.5% SFr
-1.86% DM
-14.3% Yen
+2.4% USD

The USD tanking obscures the relative POG in other currencies.
If you combine all this stuff, it seems that in Yen, POG is on the order of 251.00
Gold has not reacted well at all in the USD crash.

What was Disney's yen/gold constant? Why hasn't it worked here?
I doubted that it was anything more than an interesting coincidence.
I can see why gold sales are so brisk in Japan. How much would you buy at 251.00?

These chubby cheeks'o'mine await his lying lips....."Martin, where art thou, thy sniveling slimey self?"

Salud! to YA!!! CPO.....y un GulpO y un PuffO!

studio.qued

CPO, weren't you looking to buy silver coins?

I wanted to get some myself and really don't know where to get them. I suppose there might be VAT if you import them from certain countries, but I think you should be able to get them in a low/no tax on PM country like Austria or Luxembourg and then take them home.

If anyone has any information on this, please post.

Thanks

http://quote.yahoo.com/m5?a=1&s=XAU&t=JPY

Here you go.... http://pacific.commerce.ubc.ca/xr/plot.html

The $80 Billion tax cut was really needed to help keep the economy alive.

I have not heard if the GOP got their demands on the IMF passed Clinton.

It was important that they didn't allow Clinton to pull the same stunt as last time, when he shut down the government, now they can get about the election.

HighRise

http://www.xe.net/currency/

Per your request, here are a few Y2K sites. In these sites, there are links to others.

www.cpsr.org/program/y2k/checklist.htm
www.disastercenter.com/year2000.htm
www.y2k.com
www.yourdon.com
www.y2ktimebomb.com
www.rightime.com
www.garynorth.com
www.year2000.com

There are also several newgroups you can search at: www.dejanews.com

Good luck!

It will be interesting to see if the $80 Billion is applied to Social Security.

Remember that Clinton, with respect to the surplus, warned everyone months ago "that things change" implying that the surplus may not be there...... could it be he was referring to all of his administrations funny math and economic numbers released every month.

HighRise

http://www.drudgereport.com/ Says Democrats way ahead in upcoming U.S. election. Can this be true?

SDRer re: The Laws of Disney
"You refer to Disney's 1st Law .. which boldly states
that the price of gold = 41250/yen = 41250/118 = 349 !!
However, as you recall, Disneys 2nd Law wisely cautions
that the 1st law does not always apply.

Think you're still in the money...
it's just different money! {:- ) )

Look just a tad to your left. Figures for 10/5/98
JPY:Euro 162.574 POG 40336.6 yen/162.574 JPY:Euro = 248.112
POG Euro 10/5/98 248.338
[Figures from Oanda]

You must have been reading my mind from this morning.
Couldn't take it anymore. Sold everything, 100% cash now.
Which of course means gold will skyrocket tomorrow. LOL
Still 20% down for the year, but at least got back 30%.
Swore I wouldn't ride it down again after the August fiasco.
I've also been having bad thoughts about gold losing its
safe haven status. Believe it will move around a 50 point
range over the next few months. The only way I see gold
making a truly great move now would be the onslaught of a
1929 scenerio. Some here say it will happen, but I will wait
until others outside Kitco think so too. Anyway, at this point
I hope gold drops another $10 so I can try again. Or rises
another $20 to get my faith back.

1. Do you need a profit? Verily, it is not normal for a profit to come easily. Expect to sweat.
2. Do you need liberty? A great man said, "Give me Liberty or give me Death!" Very often , they arrive at the same time.

studio.

My work indicates that the old rules, "the dollar Rules" is giving way...
While the 3Pformula still holds, across the board, the reciprocals have
adjusted to the Euro... More on this in a couple of days. {:- ) )

of course you removed all prior modem installatione. also, the write notches on the install floppy should be open; some anti-virus will delete one of the programs.

"WASHINGTON, Oct 14 ( Reuters ) - U.S. House Majority Leader Dick Armey said on Wednesday that congressional Republicans would give $18 billion to the International Monetary Fund as part of a reform package, contingent on an overall budget accord."

"But he stressed the cash for the IMF depended on the White House and congressional Republicans reaching agreement on the budget."

HighRise

...and look over RJ's various historical posts ( disguised as the poster JUJUBE ) in which he spewed racist venom, incessant threats, and obscenities my way for the past several months. Bart waived the netiquette rules on K-2 and naturally, RJ and LGB took advantage of that waiver to harass me constantly. Unfortunately, it is an unnerving foreshadowing of what might await goldbugs in general if the equities and bonds markets collapse. Scapegoats will be desired by frustrated, infuriated equities and bonds bulls.

However, RJ's postings of unrestricted K-2 content on K-1 is a breach of netiquette.

The netiquette guidelines on this site prohibit postings of ANY
AND ALL breaches, past and present.

Therefore, if certain posters choose to repost historical posts from K-1 and posts from K-2 containng obscenities or any other form of
netiquette breaches, EVEN THOUGH THOSE POSTS ARE HISTORICAL OR
MADE BY THIRD
PARTIES, NEVERTHELESS THEY CONSTITUTE CURRENT NETIQUETTE
VIOLATIONS. I think
you will concur with this statement and take action against any
posters that introduce these past breaches of
netiquette onto K-1.

Thanks again for standing up for free speech on your forum. I respect your perspective on the matter.

Thanks.

F*

what we deserve!!! {:- ) ) would u pass the thermos please?

My sources relate that the bullish consensus on bonds is OVER 80%. Interest rates are therefore at historic lows. If you are ready to refinance, or finance a purchase, DO IT NOW. The next swing will be rising rates, rising stocks, AND RISING GOLD. Apres XAU 70-71, le deluge!

what is a good price to pay for junk silver dollars?

with all due respect...18 bil thru the IMF is NO-THING. It is lunch money. I'll have MY martini straight up, with one olive please.

404'ed again?

Approval of US tax payers funds to bail out the IMF will NOW accelerate
the deflationary collapse by a large magnitude. The IMF money to be used for bailing out other countries will go down the toilet. In a bull market it would have bought these countries some time to straighten their economies. In a bear market as now, it will create the opposite effect telling the rest of the world that it's OK to squander banks money because the IMF ultimately will bail them out. The politicians have lost all common sense and we will pay for it in the form of lower standard of living , etc.

farfel ........................?

I must have missed something, or I am in a time warp thing or something similar. Bart please explain.

HighRise

I hope all is well with you.

Thanks.

F*

What is that smell that just wafted along on the Kitco breeze?

I agree totally!

$18 Billion will be a drop int he bucket when it comes to helping the world out of this mess.

That is why I never saw a reason for the US to make the donation. It is like giving a dime to a drug addict.

HighRise

No, itr is not that MAC's are cheaper ( JTF ) it is that they are more ELEGANT.

It won't be long till things go whacko here at Kitco!

HighRise

It would be great if you could find some for $6 or $6.50.....but I haven't found any at less than $7.00 for quite a while, regardless of the price of silver.

JTF,

The solution to your problem rests with LINUX, and its integrated boot manager allowing you to create a DOS partition and a LINUX partition on the same drive. Linux is stronger than NT, and not nearly as brittle as any version of Windows. Boot manager allows you to select which partition you want active at boot-up.

BTW, gold equities had been running way to far ahead of gold, and this correction is the result. Donald's xau:spot gold ratio works well especially as a buy signal below 200.

They had the same numbers just before the 1994 elections and the
Republicans picked-up 52 seats in the House.

The better polls say the Republicans will gain 10 seats in the
House and 3 in the Senate.

The DEFLATIONE is HERE. Look at bond rates...the bond bullish consensus is OVER 80 PERCENT. GOLD should only be so warmly received. EVERYONE is warning of DEFLATION. Worried. Aggravated. Panicked. That is the sign of a BOTTOM. S&P options running over 2-1 puts. Do you really think all those bond bulls and put buyers are going to be RIGHT. WRONNNNNG.

Dow 8400 in two weeks.

Then next stop - 8900-9000.

Yes...I am equally amazed.

For those of you with 2 phone lines, you might want to consider an
ISDN line unless of course you have cable access. With the bonded
b channels ( 1 voice, 1 data ) , you can run at 115k until you have a
call come in. Then it automatically drops 1 channel ( reducing your
online speed to 64k ) so you can answer the other line. Since you
have 2 phone #'s assigned, you lose nothing by getting rid of your
existing 2 analog lines. In Texas the ISDN charge is about $54
dollars a month. 2 phone lines will run you the same or more.
Of course you will have to buy a terminal, $200 to $300. I have
both my b channels set up for data, d channel is overhead. Got tired
of waiting for pages to load. Downloaded netscape communicator,
( 15.7M ) took about 32 minutes as opposed to a 28.8 modem which took
a little over 2 hours. Just a thought cuz I heard some of you talking
about modems & I was bored. LOL

I must say that, so far, your pure deflation analysis is correct.

Although I have seen a global stagflation in the works, so far, the FED has refused to raise interest rates and the bond continues to RISE.

I do not see how this can continue forever though. I continue to believe that there are certain economic sectors that, no matter what the state of aggregate global demand, will experience price pressure. The entire service sector in America is a salient example.

So we shall all await to see what transpires.

Thanks.

F*

I must say that, so far, your pure deflation analysis is correct.

Although I have seen a global stagflation in the works, so far, the FED has refused to raise interest rates and the bond continues to fall.

I do not see how this can continue forever though. I continue to believe that there are certain economic sectors that, no matter what the state of aggregate global demand, will experience price pressure. The entire service sector in America is a salient example.

So we shall all await to see what transpires.

Thanks.

F*

the deserving, all-knowing Golden Thermos......happily filled to the brim with le ambrosia du jour.......... ( gulp ) to YA!!!! ;^ ) ~

Is this an ACTUAL quatrain from Nostradamus?

"Date: Wed Oct 14 1998 16:41
MM ( Nostradamus@Kitco? ) ID#350179:
Century VIII Quatrain 28

Les simulacres d'or & d'argent enflez,
Qu'apres le rapt au lac furent gettez
Au desouvert estaincts tous & troublez
Au marbre script prescript intergetez

The copies of gold and silver inflated,
which after the theft were thrown into the lake,
at the discovery that all is exhausted and dissipated by the debt.
All scrips and bonds will be wiped out.

I'm speachless..."

If so, please inform my friend Aurator AND ASK HIM TO ANALYZE. Although we are sceptical of such things this does seem a little prescient to moi!

So nice to see you again. I have another astrological stock pick for you. Sorry, but I can't guarantee a 50% rise in a week like last time, but if I dont bring you 100% in a year on either one of these, I'll buy you dinner. EEC and CRK. Buy them NOW, or forever hold your peace ( or is it "piece" ) . arrigato! ( it ain't rocket science...it's only astrology. ( ;- )

I guess this poll is the kiss of death for the Democrats, the last time this poll came out in favor of the Dems was 94 - they were clobbered in the 94 election by the GOP.

HighRise

Perhaps you would have said the same thing after the crash in 1929?

In a deflationary scenario, the contrary indicators do not work as you would expect, just as decreasing interest rates does not work. Worry and panic are the PROPER responses in a deflation.

Go to his sight and hit N. Korean News. This is news from the North Korean Communists..They actually praise Clinton and hit on the "hardliners" in Congress for trying to stop the delivery of heavy oil for delivery to the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. Clinton will have Fidel in Washington within the year. The latter is ok as I would like to go to Veradero Beach near Havanna.

My post of last night was born of the frustration that one gets looking at POG in USD. It seemed to me that Au was in another crash, but concealed with the paper dollar price.
I arbitrarily chose the dates of 30 Sep-8 Oct just to try to approximate the decline. I estimated the values on the graphs, and did a per-centage comparison. This was my guesstimate.
Now, you come with a rational method of calculation as usual, and make my scribble look like the amateur method that it is.

How did you get those numbers? This is important!

P.S. Thanks for your effort. There are so many lightbulbs that you have turned on for me that I will never be able to thank you enough.

Never made any money on numismatics, so I'm ready for either bullion or severly circulated silver dollars. $7 sounds reasonable.

Bridge Information Systems has gold up $2.00.

are you betting on it?

This week's surreal serenity in markets is like those 200 milliseconds before impact....quiet, dreamy....and then.......16 Oct....7-27...

Global panic resumes Friday....real panic and despair.

will be in D.C.. I have something hot for him that must me delivered in person. salud!

...and a special, "I DON'T CARE, I'M BUYING MORE!" to you both.

Thanks.

F*

Maybe they'll give these monies to Brazil so that the Big boys can pull out their money without having the currency collapse.

18Billion Federal Reserve Notes, just like that, nothing in my pockets, nothing up my sleeves. 18 Billion of the money base thrown onto the global market. Don't look too good for the US Federal Reserve Note's value.

Hmmmmmm, are any other countries joining in?

I heard the other day a report that China praised Clinton and said that in their country Clinton's sex problem would never be known.

Clinton' financial backer, China is now in California and the Panama Canal.

HighRise

the panic is over the fact that WE are "talking" about it says so... - DOW 8400 ahead! We'll take it from there.

Has anyone else ever walked over that bridge into Tijuana which crosses that big open sewer? For SOME reason the scent I just caught a whiff of here at Kitco, brought back that memory.....

you are all great kings with all eternity laid before you

and infurther answer to your question...yes...I am long my favorite astrological plays. See my prior post to BUG - AL for 2 of them.
( EEC, CRK ) Plus I am long gold shares. Avanti!!!

Kitco's got me laughing again, I mean good ole belly laughs. They say thats good for a persons immune system, I feel better alreadfy, to hell with the price of gold. If it goes up I'll get rich and the wife will let me be, if it goes down ( looks like it ) I can still buy a little more, at least get more of those niffty Canadian jrs. heh heh

what is that SCENT of which you speak?

verification of my 19:51 post: http://www.crbindex.com/curquote/index.htm

It does not matter WHAT you do. Your wife will NEVER let you be.

Thanks Mike. Eek and Cerk eh? I'll check em both out post haste amundo! And also, you were right yesterday when you said, I put my faith in one who is not the fallible astronaut, and never in mere men.

As to men, I'm skeptical of the Skeptical!

Based on my studies and analysis, we did experienced runaway inflation between 1966-1982. Back in 1982, treasuries were yielding 15% and the annual rate of inflation was 14%. A disinflationay period begun in 1982 and in my opinion culminated in Feb 1998. Please notice that it took almost 17 years between the beginning of 1966 and Aug 1982 as well as 17 years between Aug 1982 and Feb 98. In Feb 1998 a pure runaway deflationary period was ushered in and it should run for at least 10 years or longer. It's really unfortunate that many people believe our government can solve all social as well as economic problems. All governments have limits and in Feb 1998 we have reached those limits in the US.

He will be remembered as the President who followed bush.

Take it from a man married 30 years yesterday ( and VERY happily, I might add )

The Difference Between a Man and a Woman

1. A man will pay $2 for a $1 item he wants.
A woman will pay $1 for a $2 item that she doesn't want.
2. A woman worries about the future until she gets a husband.
A man never worries about the future until he gets a wife.
3. A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can
spend.
A successful woman is one who can find such a man.
4. To be happy with a man you must understand him a lot and love him
a little.
To be happy with a woman you must love her a lot and not try to
understand her at all.

Glad your back,this will be fun.

The scent? Come on now...don't tease me. You KNOW of which I speak!
It is the return of the evil one who's psychotic public meltdown precipitated the temporary banning of several other Kitcoites...., myself included, when he spewed racist, and family member denigrating remarks, and some of us had the gall to respond negatively to them.

Apparently, only RJ and I remember this history...or maybe others don't feel such issues are important in fellow Kitcoites IF and only IF said fellow Kitcoites are ceaseless cheerleaders with a propagandizing agenda.

Ohhhhh THAT smell....

( Who sung that? )

LGB

Away.....to scrape off my shoe.....

Boy Kitco has sped up like never before. I hope it lasts.

And welcome back Farfel.

Appreciate your take about the $18 billion: "It is like
give a dime to a drug addict".

I expect the bullcrap to fly tonite.

Dow/Gold Ratio = 26.98. The 233 day moving average is 28.68

The inflation experienced by the US from '66 to '82 ( as you put it ) was NOT runaway inflation. Runaway inflation is like what happened in Germany after WWI where the postage stamp delivering the insurance payoff was worth more than the check inside.

America has experienced INFLATION - and continues to undergo the expansion of fiat money without specie backing. But America has yet to experience RUNAWAY, or HYPER inflation. But it will come. Try 2005.

Appreciate your take about the $18 billion: "It is like
giving a dime to a drug addict".

I expect the bullcrap to fly tonite.

Your right of course. She used to be into astrology and did my chart. I
didn't have much chance with all my faults which she can recite like the LOrds prayer. She really needed someone like me who is impervious to all criticizm.

sounds ugly. I think I get the picture. Scrape thy shoe!

XAU/Spot Ratio = .239. The 233 day moving average is .247 and we are back below its dark cloud after only 14 days of sunshine.

nothin' worse than a self-righteous astrologer. You have my support.

reads of desparation. I am sure the short interests dwarfs Euro CB supplies which will never be sold in quantity. It is the threat of supply that has been used along with massive leasing. The article by Commerzbank is obvious in its desparation is as if rumored LTCM was short 370 tonnes in derivitives that is one third of Euro residuary CB holdings just by one little hedge fund...I dont blame them one bit for taking out the add. Now with the low lease rates fire works could becoming soon as their industry forward selling minions are satiated. Probably the banks like Commerz which are short can not take on any more risk of borrowing and shorting hence the ad. Interesting it occurs during a good beginning for a rally from a technical perspective. THEY MUST BE WORRIED!!The ad makes no sense and thus must be construed as extremely bullish..the lack of a further crash in gold after its republication must be causing them great concern. SHORT BANKS especially COMERZBANK..WE ARE GETTING THERE VOLKS!

Mike,
In our credit system, hyper inflation like in Germany during the 20's is impossible. Germany in the 20's had a cash system where people were paid in cash. In the US people get paid with checks. Our 14 % annual rate of inflation in 1982, in a credit system is considered to be runaway inflation.

glad to catch you. You have my vote as the Kitco p-rognosticator of the year - deflationism is HERE. Now that that's over, I bid you gird your loins for the recovery. Yes, time has been "eclipsed." ( you'll pardon the expression ) . The DEflation is OVER. It is NOW. Tommorrow is a new day.

Keep sound at the other side of the sound.

Bridge does say gold is up $2.00, but I think they meant $.20. The spot gold chart at the top of the screen tells it all.

14% is mere inflation. Runaway inflation is far more severe than that. Do you think that is impossible in America now? I beg to differ. But we will both wait and see. Try 50%, or more for runaway, and 1000% for hyper inflation. If either does not materialize by 2006, I will take you to lunch. If it does, you will take me to lunch. How's that? ( Your bill will be steeper than mine, but we'll have a good time anyhow ) .

Over the past week, the $A has gained about 5 cents against the $US. That has brought about a precipitous dive in the $A Gold price ( nearly $A 40 ) , while the $US price is frozen around the $US 296 level.

I have just updated the $A - $US Gold comparison charts at The Privtateer website. Interestingly, $A Gold has broken through one uptrend line and is now come back down to a second one. In $A terms, Gold is at support. If the $A price continues downstairs, that will either mean aneven stronger $A, or a fall in Gold in $US terms - or both.

Either way, the resolution should not be long in coming. $US spot month Gold has been at $US 296 since last Friday.

you may be right. All I know is my indicators tell me stocks are going up right now.

First,
We have got to make sure that we are alive in 2006.

I got the following from Astro dates 1998 from sharefins very valuable page

OCt 16th this is one day before the dark days on the Jewish calendar of 7-27 and 7-28 which would fall on 10/17 and 10/18 this year . This is exactly when seasonal factors call for a crash wave . These aspects do lend them selves to a panic atmosphere and erratic thinking BEWARE If a crash develops it will be due to the astro on this date


Oct 24 Ugly and deflationary Could be near a significant low in sentiment and mood Tragic circumstances Capitulation



KIWI are you posting from Godzone ???


ALL yet another reminder 18/10 is very significant spiral calendar
low for gold related to low of $103.50 of August 1976 . Gold has fallen $75 per oz ( about 12.5% in NZ in last 2 weeks ) I strongly believe we will see the final low shortly after Friday . Gold is cheap in Kiwiland .

Date: Sun Oct 04 1998 21:53
Puetz ( MOON-PHASE & STOCK MARKET CRASH ) ID#222167:
Copyright  1998 Puetz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Crazytimes: Carlan's lunar study fits well with my research.
Carlan focuses on when crashes end. My study concentrates on
when they begin. They tend to start at the time of full-moons,
especially solar-eclipses, and they tend to end near new-moons.

In Europe and Asia, the present decline began 1 day after the
solar-eclipse in early September. The DJIA has held out 1
month longer than other markets around the globe. The full-
moon tomorrow should put the DJIA back into the bearish-phase
prevelent worldwide.

Carlan's study, then, suggests that between October 5th and
October 19th, there will be a tremendous global stock market
crash.

See this week's Barron's ( page 45 ) where I show how volume
enters into the picture.

Regards,

Steve Puetz

Date: Fri Apr 24 1998 14:32
farfel ( @ALL...This is NOT euphemistic.... ) ID#340302:
MONDAY...GOLD SHORT SQUEEZE ALERT!! GOLD SHORT SQUEEZE ALERT!!

Thanks.

F*

astrology is like anything else...yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice. This is one astrologer who say that stocks will be higher by the 24th. Who you gonna believe?

Ego..ego..ego.

Tom

sometimes confusing times, this is Farfel's old slogan:
"I DON'T CARE, I BUY MORE".
Imagine: During the last years the gold market has absorbed 8,000 tons of gold, leased away by central banks, and sold by the lenders into the market. Nevertheless, the gold price is at $300.00. That shows that we had all these years an extrmely strong market. Now, this source is about to dry out. Even if its true that these 8,000 tons of gold will not be given back in gold ( ! ) but in thin air money, ( which is the worst what can happen! ) , even then this market is about to change dramatically. It doesn't matter if this change will happen within two months from now or within half a year. But the change is around the corner.

If only part of these 8,000 tons have to be given back in gold, indeed the gold price will reach the moon, and not just go through the roof. ( I took this roof-moon thing from Doug Casey's International Speculator. )

Please do NOT confuse anything Steve Puetz professes based on Moon phases, etc, etc, to be anything remotely related to astrology. Even Mr Puetz himself has vociferously and in no uncertain terms expressed his disbelief in astrology. I breathe deeply in relief over such a disclaimer.

Blazing speed....The jammers must have a holiday.....sorry if this jinxes the site.

may your prognostication be dwarfed by the reality!

I have the Doug Casey books from the 1970's and early 1980's. He got me interested in South African gold shares. What is he saying these days?

Perhaps we get to test out the Moon-walk thingy looking for all that gold, eh?

my only investment is physical gold and some cash , apart from house of course .
My gold is not for sale
My house is for sale
gold is beckoning my cash

I am tempted to short the S&P at over 1035 ( But probably will not pull the trigger ) and in the short term futures gold will probably outperform physical in $NZ terms .
Those are the chances I would take ...but i probably wont pay the money

Brian

Afraid of his most recent words, as they show him for what he is, the F entity again cries unto Bart. This time though, he is telling Bart what his Bart's own rules are. I just read the nettiquite rules and they say nothing of the F spot's "third party" nonsense. Now the F spot would like to invent the rules for all of us.

But which "third party" is he afraid of? Why, it is none other than himself. One would think that the best way to not have offensive stuff posted on this site, would be not having written the offensive words, but this type of logical simplicity seems to escape the addled fellow. So he now cries and whines that his own words appear. A wondrous labyrinth, that mind of his, but one that seems filled with empty hallways.

For months he encouraged others to post his own K2 rantings on this site, even though he was banned from posting here. He tried to circumvent the rules. Now his own recent words appear in the same manner he once solicited, but he is heard to whine, "Woe unto me."

Everybody should reread the F spot words I re-posted today. These are his words he is running from, all of them not even a week old. What flows from his own sad mind is what scares him most. He fears the world will take measure of just what kind of fellow we are dealing with here. When faced with his own words, he shouts and whines to Bart about me.

Sounding more and more like Bill Clinton, yes? All Ken Starr's fault. I wonder how the F spot defines "is" and "alone", and if he invents definitions for words like our criminal president.

He used the K2 site to insult me on a continuing basis, to which I would occasionally respond to grind him into hamburger. I post nothing to this fellow in over a month, and he comes back to insult me. Now he runs from those he has attacked. This is the definition of a bully, most of which are proven cowards.

Now he will dictate to all what the rules are. The most egregious violator ever of the very rules he now tries to hide behind. This is very amusing. Like a worm on a hot griddle, we will watch together how he tries to squirm out of this, yes?


Righty O



PS to the Spot thingie,

While you are whining to Bart, perhaps you could ask him why I am unable to post as RJ at K2? I know you have read the words many times, but they fail to sink in. My password does not work on K2. The administrator of this site has determined that I may not post on K2. Perhaps you could verify with your buddy Bart that this is so. Or perhaps you see RJ bogeymen wherever you look.

Then you have the gall to write of free speech? At the same time you are trying to stifle the freest form of speech, that of disagreement? More and more like Clinton every day. Oh, when you talk to Bart again, maybe you could ask him if this is all worth it. I tend to think that speaking with folks of your type would make him re-evaluate this site more than anything anyone has ever written here. You were surprised the man was not necessarily pro gold. This is because he has a brain and he uses it.

Please continue your whining, it makes you look very small and petty. I will continue to discuss these markets and point out the vapid propaganda wherever it may be found. By your own words you are a gold propagandist, and a violent one as well. Remember this from April 23rd? Your own words again:

"However, there are fundamental notions I present in this report that I believe must be hammered into the minds of various Kitcoites over and over again until, at last, they "get it." God only knows that gold shorts have spent the past two years repeating an all too familiar litany of scare tactics ad nauseum. It is necessary to de-program many goldbugs of these gold short brainwashing tactics via an equally compelling and antithetical form of pro-gold agit-prop."

So you are a self admitted propagandist with a hammer. You also have a very dim view of the collected intellect hereabouts. These are grown up folks, fella', you don't need to "hammer" anything into their heads, they have minds, they can think. There is also no conspiracy - QUICK. LOOK BEHIND YOU!!!!!!.. of gold shorters. This is a market, it goes two ways.

Why are you so afraid of your own words? You wrote them. You meant them. You insult poster's spouses and families. You evaluate many statements made to you in terms of race, the truest sign of a racist. You are consistently wrong on almost every thing you say, every empty pronouncement you make, yet you keep making them Just like our criminal president.

You picked the game, so stop your whining and lets play. You would never hear a word from me if you would stop insulting me and my friends. Yet you keep insulting us. Now you whine and blubber when one rises to defend oneself? Maybe you feel comfortable swinging your "hammer" wildly, but us sane folks just want to get out of the way.

I love this forum, and it is less of a place since your propaganda appeared.

So. Let's keeps this about metals and not people, OK? In that respect, my prior posts will look like offerings of candy. I guess a man does not know what a man does not know. Almost every paragraph you write has some inherent mistake. Not nit picky ones, but a deep and fundamental lack of understanding how these markets work. This is to be expected from a zealot, but those who believe their own press, always fall. Post away and we will peer within. Perhaps, in this manner, you could augment you second rate, piously liberal education. Never to old to learn, yes? How high is up? Limit? When prices go down, what is getting squeezed? Exactly why ( as you wrote a month ago ) will Alan Greenspan not lower interest rates? You never fail to deliver.

Nothing

Thanks

R*

REALISTIC:

I sincerely hope you do not spend very much time congratulating yourself on what you appear to think is a clever way of expressing yourself with your nuisance posts. Because unfortunately, nothing could be further from the truth. Instead of cleverness, they demonstrate the paucity of your thought...the utter dearth of imagination that is yours.

In fact, in this real world, most of us do think one thing one day and something else the next. This is an inevitable part being human and of seeking truth. Your own obvious enjoyment in wallowing in the human weakness of others is not pleasant to behold. It is whining to constantly assert, "on such and such a day, you said so and so, and...now you say blah, blah, blah...Can you please explain?" And it serves no useful purpose.

It can only be termed a severely limited mind that demonstrates an inability to comprehend and/or accept one of the most fundamental tenents of the human condition: Things change! What one thinks in all sincerity one moment is not always what that same mind thinks in all sincerity another. Without going into too much detail, a myriad of changes are constantly swirling around in each of our own personal environments, and to some extent they cannot help but define and redefine our all-too-human existence. But then, most of us understand what Robert de Niro's character in the movie The Deerhunter said to another whining weakling: "That was then! This is now!"

Why not consider working up some more relevant material?

You may recall ( if it was not before your time ) what Walter Pirsig says in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, "The real motorcycle you're working on is the cycle you call yourself."

Think about it!

*******WARNING*******
These observations may be reposted as a reminder to REALISTIC whenever one of his nuisance posts is observed unless it can be demonstrated that a majority of Kitoites prefer that his nuisance posts continue unremarked.

HELP I,M NEW At THIS GAME. I RECENTLY TOOK A LARGE POSITION IN GOLD MOUNTIES. I,M CONFUSED BY LAST WEEKS
MARKET ACTIONS , PATICULARLY THE FALL OF THE DOLLAR AGAINST THE YEN. ANY THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS.
THANKS BG_A

I guess you're right. Sigh.

More trouble for banks and hedge-fund industry

NEW YORK ( AP ) - In another troubling blow for hedge funds, BankAmerica Corp. disclosed Wednesday that it lost nearly a third of a $1.4 billion unsecured loan to a small investment firm it effectively bailed out to limit the flow of red ink.
http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news100p.htm

HighRise

Ther is alot more dollars held by Japanese than Yen held by Americans. There is also just alot more dollars. The US is the biggest debtor nation and and has the largest trade deficit in the world. It is easy to see why the YEN rose..the mystery is how the dollar rose over the last three years.

STOP this stuff....please.

Tom

Are you confused that the dollar fell against the Yen. or confused that gold didn't go up when the dollar fell?

In the first case, the dollar was extremely overbought against the Yen prior to the fall, and there was overwhelming support for the dollar from speculators... almost a sure sign of a top.

In the second case, join the club. Only the manipulators know the answer to that one.

No predictions anymore. Volatility galore. Hold on the for the ride.

Live Long and Prosper.

may I fix you another 'tuni while I'm up?......me?.......well, I'm sipping Tia Maria neat. Salud! to KitcO's new wheels!!! reminds me of a '58 327 with three quarter cams, solid lifters and a thirsty Holley four throater. sweeeeeeet.

Let us count the number of rules the F entity broke:

Don't post any derogatory remarks regarding any group's race, religion, Or ethnic background.

1 +

Don't use profanities or foul language.

1 +

Don't make any insulting remarks or statements that provoke other participants.

1 +

Don't post any unrelated comments that are likely to arouse a strong emotional response.

1 =

Oh, hell. You do the math. He broke all the important ones. And all as recently as a few days ago. Maybe these rules should be enforced, but what is the use of enforcement if a fellow whines loud enough and all is forgiven? Again, just like our criminal president. Where in the constitution does it say anything about "censure" or "rebuke"? Where in the rules does it say anything about posting third party stuff? I guess it is the F spot's world and he just deigns to let us live here.

It seems as if the rules are viewed through the same distorted lenses he uses to look at these markets. Once again, he has proven that he cannot understand what is in front of his face.

Uh Huh

I realize that someone who tries to break up family arguments is liable to bring down the wrath of both sides, but I feel obligated to remind you that K2 is unmoderated. Anyone whether you or me or even f* could post under his name or yours or anyone's. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt?

RJ:

How many times must we commisserate with you that your password does not work on K-2?

Rather than demand that Farfel explain it to you, why not do some research into "cookies"? Try to find out how Bart's program knows who is posting from your computer the moment you open the posting window.

Chances are, Farfel doesn't know either. You're probably wasting your time asking him that.

Thanks.

PH*

PS. No more food or pretzals for me tonight! Please, don't insist that the "baker" come out of retirement to practise his craft! For example: Farfel has posted nothing here ( on K-1 ) today that violates the rules. We will listen much more attentively to your complaints when he has, not before he does.

I have better things to do.How long are you going to abuse our patience?~~poof~~

Why did you call me names on k2 tonight? Get the point? ( 8-^ ) ) http://www.kitco.com/backup

Gold ( CMX )
Dec
298.10
298.30
297.70
298.10
+0.30
10/14/98
17:47

HighRise

I posted from another account earlier today. I was identified ( correctly ) only by my password.

"It seems as if the rules are viewed through the same distorted lenses he uses to look at these markets. Once again, he has proven that he cannot understand what is in front of his face."


****** Don't make any insulting remarks or statements that provoke other participants. *******

I think your score is already up to 2 .

GeOrge...."Kitco's got me laughing again, I mean good ole belly laughs. They say thats good for a persons immune system, I feel better already, to hell with the price of gold."

yes, indeedyO.

Why wud his/her past/present digitization offend anyone? Perhaps F hit
an F'n nerve. Wud like to view more PM expertise.

It is an weak and empty attempt at deception. The ID numbers tell the tale.

http://www.kitco.com/comments/investment/1998q4/981014.202313.rjeeeeeee.htm

OK

http://www.kitco.com/backup

( Holding a Mountie with extended arm ) Alas, poor Aurum, I knew it, R.STUDIO. A metal of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy. Here is the bullion I have bought, I know not how oft. Where be your rallies now? Your spikes, your limits up, your bull moves, that were wont to set a trading pit a'roar? ( for those who live in Indiana--Aurum=Gold )

spot gold 296.30. has held support and should now resume uptrend.
next 24 hrs will tell. hold on two yr hats!

The brain of the nation may be too far gone for the people to ever see through the Lincoln Lies, but they do tire of his legacy of Government of the lie, by the lie, and for the lie.

Try http://www.goldminingoutlook.com/ for some interesting predictions on the stock markets and the price of gold over the next three years. Today again has given me cause to retch but then being a goldbug is content cause for spastic colin ( not Powell ) . My kids keep reminding me that I cannot singlehandly impeach WJC, although in my dreams such has occurred from time to time. Here's hoping for some movement up tomorrow in the gold and gold shares.

I know of cookies and such stuff.
It is my password that has been yanked.
The message I get is, "Bad Password"
I would say this narrows the problem down a bit.

I only insist on repeating this, because some folks are always complaining that RJ does not post at K2. I was not my decision, I assume it was Bart's. I never wrote to him or called him regarding this. I accepted what was and went on with my life. This is why the RJ moniker never apears on K2. I thought K2 was the un-banable site. How is it that I got banned from the F dungeon? Maybe it was those two nettiquete rules I broke what did me in.

Some folks see bogeymen wherever they look and, rather than look to their own behavior, would rather blame it on somebody else. This is how our criminal president has shown us is the way to behave. This is a lesson the F entity has taken to heart.

Interesting though, how he is trying to turn around the words? He has made several baseless claims, which I can prove are false, and I will..... After I respond to a long overdue e-mail.

OK

When I was a child, I dreamed of gold as a child. Now that I am a man, I dream of gold as a child. Gold is eternal....that which youthfully illuminates the darkest corners of our aged minds. All that is good and true is called "golden", my golden friend. salud!

reminds me of the wonderful lyric in "Wake up Little Susie" by the Everly Brothers ( the classic 50's R&R tune about a lad & his gal who doze off innocently on a date in the movie theatre and then emerge into the world - "Look up, is that the Moon I see?...don't know, looks like the Sun to me."

"What we gonna tell your Ma?
What we gonna tell your Pa?
What we gonna tell our friends
when they say "oooh, la la...

Wake up a little Sisie....we gotta go home."

Somebody asked a question about Hecla the other day, so I have been watching it. The price has dropped precipitously the last day or two, but I can find no news item to account for it. Any ideas?

Be happy, don't worry, you are secure. I bought a few mounties and a lot of stocks, I wish it was the other way around.

R J- Platinum is looking appealling at this price. Where do think it's headed?

change sisie to susie...but then, you're all so sharp, you knew that.

It has been some time since I posted a joke, all in the interest of bolstering the price of gold. Hopefully the following will help those with gold enduced weak stomachs.

A man walked in to Joe's Barber Shop for his regular haircut. As he snips away, Joe asks "What's up?" The man proceeds to explain he's taking a vacation to Rome. "ROME?!" Joe says, "Why would you want to go there? It's a crowded dirty city full of Italians! You'd be crazy to go to Rome! So how ya getting there?" "We're taking TWA," the man replies.
"TWA?!" yells Joe. "They're a terrible airline. Their planes are old, their flight attendants are ugly and they're always late! So where you staying in Rome?" The man says "We'll be at the downtown International Marriot." "That DUMP?!" says Joe. "That's the worst hotel in the city! The rooms are small, the service is surly and slow and they're overpriced! So whatcha doing when you get there?" The man says "We're going to go see the Vatican and hope to see the Pope." "HA! That's rich!" laughs Joe. "You and a million other people trying to see him. He'll look the size of an ant. Boy, good luck on THIS trip. You're going to need it!" A month later, the man comes in for his regular haircut. Joe says, "Well, how did that trip to Rome turn out? Betcha TWA gave you the worst flight of your life!" "No, quite the opposite" explained the man. "Not only were we on time in one of their brand new planes, but it was full and they bumped us up to first class. The food and wine were wonderful, and I had a beautiful 28 year old flight attendant who waited on me hand and foot!" "Hmmm," Joe says, "Well, I bet the hotel was just like I described." "No, quite the opposite! They'd just finished a $25 million remodeling. It's the finest hotel in Rome, now. They were overbooked, so they apologized and gave us the Presidential suite for no extra
charge!" "Well," Joe mumbles, "I KNOW you didn't get to see the Pope!" "Actually, we were quite lucky. As we toured the Vatican, a Swiss guard tapped me on the shoulder and explained the Pope likes to personally meet some of the visitors, and if I'd be so kind as to step into this private room and wait, the Pope would personally greet me. Sure enough,
after 5 minutes, the Pope walked through the door and shook my hand. I knelt down as he spoke a few words to me." Impressed, Joe asks, "Tell me, please! What'd he say?" "Oh, not much really. Just 'Where'd you get that stinking haircut?'"

Welcome back F*, with the caveate that I hope you and your detractors all cease and desist the personal attacks. It wastes your energy and Bart's bandwidth.

FOX-MAN, I just want to thank you for posting the COMEX numbers each day. I, for one, appreciate your input.

Voyeur Prof, I share your frustration. For whatever it's worth, my problem isn't with gold, it is with silver. I have myself convinced that the POG is being kept down in order for the Euro to get off the ground in January having been "benchmarked" at an artificially low level against the US dollar. When the manipulators then let the gold market rise to its "natural" level ( US$430-460, according to some gurus ) , the partially gold-backed Euro will seem robust compared to its principal international currency competitor, the dollar.

My confusion lies with the price of silver. We've been led to believe that Warren Buffett has taken one fourth of the normal market supply of silver out of play by buying up a bunch of COMEX silver and hiding it out of the CFTC's sight in London. If so, the price of the remaining silver should be artificially higher. But what do we see? Lower silver prices heading lower still. It makes you wonder: What would the price of silver be now if Buffett hadn't removed a bunch of it from the marketplace? Would we be looking at $3.50 silver? Worse? As someone here pointed out a few months ago, if you put the price of silver or gold in 1988 dollars, the stuff would be almost free!

So, V-Prof, you are not the only one who is confused. You have a lot of company, I suspect.

The RidgeRunner

I thought to let you look at a pic of one of the silver medallions I made this year. Its not much, just 1/35000 th of a ton but if EVERYBODY nade one or two of their own design then the price of silver would go up!

Could someone with legal knowledge give an opinion on the decision of the court concerning TVX and The Alpha Group.What it really means.

The decision just came out earlier this evening.

( a remix ) I will never forget opening my first plastic container of A. Philharmonikers. It was in the breakfast room that the midday sun struck it's offspring which I held in my hand. The coin caught fire. I knew then that I had never seen a flame before. I knew then that gold is not of this world.

GOLLUM, I'm the one who asked about why Hecla has been so weak in the past few days. The only answer I've come up with is that it may be under some tax loss selling pressure. Does anyone have a better idea?

RidgeRunner

TVX won. The Alpha group gets 24% of the Greek properties if they win the appeal which TVX is filing. This clears the air for TVX which has been under the shadow of this case for along time.

disclaimer: I own some TVX and will own more soon.

GOLD is up a bit tonight, thanks Asia!

http://www.quote.com/cgi-bin/jchart-form

Somewhere in America, next week:

Dad - Son, come in here, we need to talk.

Son - What's up, Dad?

D- There's a scratch down the side of the car. Did you do it?

S- I believe, if I correctly understand the definition of "scratch the

car", that I can say, truthfully, that I didn't scratch the car.

D- Well, it wasn't there yesterday, and you drove the car last night, and

no one else has driven it since. How can you explain the scratch?

S- Well, as I've said before, I have no recollection of scratching the car.

While it is true that I did take the car out last night, I did not scratch

it.

D- But your sister, Monica, has told me she saw you back the car against

the mailbox at the end of the driveway, heard a loud scraping sound, saw

you get out to examine the car, and then drive away. So again I'll ask you,

'yes' or 'no', did you scratch the car?

S- I don't agree with your contention that you have evidence to prove I

scratched the car. You see, I understood you to mean did "I" scratch the

car. I stand by my earlier statement, that I did not scratch the car.

D- Are you trying to tell me you didn't drive the car into the mailbox?

S- Well, you see sir, I was trying to drive the car into the street. I

mishandled the steering of the car, and it resulted in direct contact with

the mailbox, though that was clearly not my intent.

D- So you are then saying that you did hit the mailbox?

S- No sir, that's not my statement. I'll refer you back to my original

statement that I did not scratch the car.

D- But the car did hit the mailbox, and the car did get scratched as a

result of this contact?S- Well, yes, I suppose you could look at it that way.

D- So you lied to me when you said you did not scratch the car?

S- No. No, that's not correct. Your question was "Did I scratch the car".

From a strict legal definition, as I understood the meaning of that

sentence, I did not scratch the car... the mailbox did... I was merely

present when the scratching occurred. So my answer of "No" when you asked

"Did I scratch the car" was legally correct, although I did not volunteer

information.

D- Where in the hell did you learn to be such a smart a**?

S- From The President of the United States.

D-I see...

to achieve p2-450 performance for half the cost, get a celeron 300a ( $150.00 ) , and an abit bh6 motherboard ( $99.00 ) , and some micron or samsung-gh memory with CAS 2 lateny. the secret to the celeron is that the cache is on die ( 128k ) , unlike the P2'S which are on the cartridge ( 512k ) , this meaning that the cache runs at the speed of the die, while the p2's cache runs half speed. the celerons have a locked multiplier at 4.5x, which means you will be running the chip at 100mhz buss speed ( all the PCI and other devices will be stable ) , the bh6 is a nice board with alot of buss speeds ( 112,124,133, and a turbo that adds 3mhz to selected freq ) . approx 90% of celerons overclock to 450, with around half reaching 504mhz. All this truly depends on cooling the processor!!! heh heatsinks with multiple fans, for both sides of the chip, and case fans to evacuate heat. It is truly amazing to see it bench out near a p2450. they are built around a p2 450 core of course. in fact all of you guys out there running older p5 chips, can easily overclock their chips, with no worries. some say that by overclocking them, they will shorten the life of the chip, but it will be obsolete in a year or less, and very inexpensive to upgrade. for instance a p166 will easily do 200mhz very easily, and generate a little extra heat, which will be well within the range of safe operation, with a heatsink and fan. for more info....

http://www.tomshardware.com
http://bxboards.pair.com
http://www.anandtech.com
http://www.kylebennett.com/OCP.htm
http://www.cpu-central.com/

btw isnt Silver the metal with the lowest heat capacity? wouldnt it make sense that a heatsink should be made of pure silver to dissipate heat as fast as possible??? with silver as cheap as it is, i believe a good sink could be made for as less as 50 dollars! hrmm how does one make a mold for pouring silver into out of clay? : ) i have a torch and want to make something, would one put silver chunks into a mold and blow the torch into the mold from above??? please advise..

errr sorry for the subject matter, but hey i could waste alot of silver makin these heat sinks! ; ) - Big G

HL: Gollum and rhody answered my questions concerning the future possibilities for Silver and Hecla a few days ago. My charts show just a rather low-volume slippage today. Interestingly enough, the Kaplan site logs at least two recent insider purchases of Hecla.
TVX: Any news will be of help.

finally able to solve this conundrum and see through the crafty plan that the Central Banks have foisted upon us: They simply moved all the silver to the London vaults, spay painted it yellow and solved the 8000 tonne overhang. Insidiously simple. Eh, Watson?

Neat, coherent design, cu denken geben, how did you come up with it?

and beautiful work! Is this piece a result of a hobby or profession? Is there symbolism existing within the three figures? salud!

If this keeps up dow will tank in a couple of days.

Sounds to me like the Canadian court wimped out. According to TVX home page they will appeal, as they feel that the Alpha Group has no claim, and I agree with that. Personally ( and I am Canadian ) if I were TVX, I'ld shut operations up here, and set up in Greece then retry the case. 12% with an option for another 12 to purchase is way way way to much for those guys. I'm holding a lot of TVX by the way.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/981014/tvx_1.html

If the Alpha Group wins some of the projects,does it also mean that they owe for a portion of the development costs? What do you think this does to the companies stock?Up,I think you think,and by how much?

Gold +$1 or more I guess? @ Kitco

Bonds are still down
http://www.mrci.com/qpnight.htm

HighRise

STUDIO.R-- I remember that post! It was right about the time I bought my first Gold coin. Maybe late summer '97? Behold, Gold!

http://www.tvxgold.com/PressReleases/1998/pr101498.htm

88% of something is better than 100% of nothing. The psychological lift will be good. I've got to do some more dd on it. The market will tell us tomorrow!

book value/share is $2.93, might be the reason the short interest
ratio is 6.5 or almost 1,200,000 shares shorted. Maybe *grin*

)


Date: Wed Oct 14 1998 19:46
Mooney* ( @MM ) ID#350194:
Copyright  1998 Mooney*/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Is this an ACTUAL quatrain from Nostradamus?

"Date: Wed Oct 14 1998 16:41
MM ( Nostradamus@Kitco? ) ID#350179:
Century VIII Quatrain 28

Les simulacres d'or & d'argent enflez,
Qu'apres le rapt au lac furent gettez
Au desouvert estaincts tous & troublez
Au marbre script prescript intergetez

The copies of gold and silver inflated,
which after the theft were thrown into the lake,
at the discovery that all is exhausted and dissipated by the debt.
All scrips and bonds will be wiped out.

I'm speachless..."

If so, please inform my friend Aurator AND ASK HIM TO ANALYZE. Although we are sceptical of such things this does seem a little prescient to moi!



In this quatrain you have to translate lac ( latin,lactis=milk symbol of
sweetness ) .N used to cut words in order to protect his visions.So the quatrain is:Copies of gold&silver inflated,
after the theft of ( douceur de vivre ) the sweet way of life,
wil be thrown in a furious fire ( furent,latin:furens=furieux )
exhausted ( estaincts,estanc=lass,puis ) and upset by the debt
paper¤cies will be smashed ( marbre=mortier,receptacle inside which you crush ) .

But the III,5 is more interesting:

Pres loing defaut de deux grands luminaires
qui surviendra entre l avril et mars:
O quel chert!mais deux grands debonnaires
Par terre et mer secourront toutes parts

Very clear and obviously it s march1999.


And look at the sixain 46:
The date of the conjonction is" around the 2nd of april 1998" ( thanks to the computation of one participant of this forum )
Something important happened around the 2nd.

oops!! that last post of mine was on your Hecla ( HL ) from MSN investor

Just read:
Paper¤cies ( perscipts ,latin perscribo=I pay with banknotes )
....
Thanks
and sorry my english is not perfect

Up then down. Lost about 40 points in last 5 minutes before half time. http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^N225&d=1d

6 analyst averaged= growth for 12/99 of 277.78% & rate it a moderate buy.

being ahead in the polls. It appears that the lemmings are about to follow Neutered Gingrinch off a cliff once again.

Bugal re: that stench. Maybe you should consider a different deodorant.

A friend of mine had a look a Hecla the other day and was surprised to see how the company was moving farther away from precious metals production to other aggregates more tied to the economy. This may provide some of the answer. Watch the balance sheet.

O.K. central banks, hedge funds, and forward sellers, I may have just sold all my gold positions today so if you want to let the price rise while my back is turned I would feel pretty dumb.......

JTF

Worth a look here?
http://www.annoyances.org/win95/

------------------------------
Y2K bug prompts defense concerns in Canada
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/wr/story.html?s=v/nm/19981013/wr/canada_2.html

Responding to concerns that Y2K-related failures could lead to widespread civil unrest, a top Canadian military official last week told a group of reservists that the Year 2000 bug is now the nation's top defense priority.

"However, Canada is behind but not as far behind as the French, Germans, or Italians," he said. US military officials estimate that their allies are lagging 18 to 24 months behind schedule.

"I'm startled to see how little thought our allies have given to the security aspects of Y2K," said John Hamre, the deputy defense secretary and the military's pointman on Y2K. "We've had limited success with other NATO countries. Europe's NATO allies are giving the euro currency priority over Y2K compliance, which is not even seen as a security issue in Europe."
------------------------------

Thanks, folks. Its just a hobby, the way music was a hobby for the Dayton drycleaner in the Harry Chapin song. The triskele in its various forms is one of the many spiral motifs present in the history of design, particularly that of the Indoeuropeans. My art is primitive and personal, destined to never be mass produced, but it soothes the jangled nerves.

I do my own casting but thats not neccessary. If you want to do the same sort of thing, maybe you can work a deal with themissinglink or a local jeweler to send him your wax own carvings for casting. All that is needed is a few dental picks, a lump of wax and a willing jeweler to cast it. If you get 34999 of your friends together you can use up a ton of silver. ( 8-^ ) )

You know, I'd bet there might be a small but present market for wax carving kits with precut blanks for the do it yourself medallion makers amongst us. Gold, silver, plus a casting and finishing fee???

The site you were refering to earlier is the Kitco Back Up Site, it is not K2

Kitco Back Up is:

http://www.kitco.com/cgi-bin/comments/investment/display_short.cgi

K2 is:

http://www.kitcomm.com/cgi-bin/comments/goldch2/display_shortch2.cgi

It was on K2 that the fireworks appeared.

OK

PS

Cool medalion. Is it a cast? I have some interest in casting silver myself. Perhaps we could discuss this, yes? Feel free to e-mail me at: rjd@pacbell.net

Yes

test

again

I will never sell my Gold....maybe some PM stocks when they are at least up 400%. This must be a sound policy for the time to come...because once limit moves start...so what? They would not bother me. Gold is only one of those precious things, like some 'Art' you just do not let go unless forced to by some unforeseen event.

Flee they go! Are all those Martyrs buried in Long Bonds and Quality Stocks?
Next?

HL seems to be getting a lot more responsive to PM price moves lately than it has been over the last two years. Used to have such a lag. Could be the old dog has laid by the fireplace long enough and is feeling frisky and ready for a hunt ;- )