Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:02 - ID#286230)
tolerant1 Charles Keeling
tolerant1 thanks for the site I'll look into it.

Charles Keating --keep in mind the electrical shut down and therefor everything else in Montreal lasted for 2-7 weeks depending on where you lived--and without regard for what you were doing!!!!!!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:03 - ID#219363)
Lots of discussion about Socialism, Progressives, Libertarians, Republicans, Democrats, etc, on the site, so I'm going to take this opportunity to put in a plug for my party too *grin*. The best party going, the one I love the most, is the Moderate party. The Moderates don't have big gatherings, don't have a coherent philosophy or idealism, don't have fancy slogans, and don't spend much on advertising. They don't tend to vote unless something is irritating them, and they don't tend to complain unless someone is getting completely out of line. They get most annoyed by continued fighting between idealistic folks, especially when those idealistic folks are elected representatives in the capital. They get most stirred up by issues that affect their homes and their families, and care very little for issues that don't affect them, things like doctor assisted suicide and gay marriages in Hawaii. Moderates care more about things like whether the street in front of their house is going to get new asphalt, or if the teachers in their school is going to get a reasonable salary, or if somebody is going to start a war that's going to get one of their kids killed. Moderates are most active in the local community where nobody gives a rat's butt about doctor assisted suicide, and the local politicians don't have a party, which is of course what the Moderate party is usually called, the no party *grin*. The Moderate party is the biggest party there is, and the other parties often times collect Moderates into their own parties to make them look more like regular people instead of a bunch of morons. Moderate politicians are the ones that tell you what they think, and not what all the people in their party have decided to think together, and they're the ones that often swing "across party lines" to vote on stuff they believe in. They're also the ones who tend to get re-elected to office over and over again because people think they're doing a good job. Come join my political party, the Moderate party, it's the coolest thing going.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:04 - ID#254288)
I suggest a duel....., with 357 magnums using hollow point ammunition

The F*spot versus the Little Greasy Blowhard.

I was going to suggest ANOTHER handle, but my Italian heritage forbids such sick humour, as we have been a proud contributing people who essentially mind our own business, but the bull is now waist deep and there is no high ground for refuge.

I also suggest that Mozel and simular loads officiate as referees while an evil minded terrorist type pulls up with a truckload of fertilizer______and so it all ended on this 5th day of November of 1998.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:07 - ID#257312)

Were you WW in another incarnation at Kitco? I owe him $440.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:17 - ID#190411)
ROR, speaking from fathomless ignorance,
Russ Feingold ( utter absolute misnomer ) sucked up all of the special interest money that he could deny. Mr. no limits on gommint is your kind of guy.
How's your Newmont going? If you had followed my advise, you'd be looking at 40% in a 6 week period.
You still haven't got the guts to steal it from me directly; such a talker you are.

LGB, keep my name out of your anti-farfel posts. I wrote to him on my rag with him.
I see that you did acknowledge that he claimed to be a cheerleader for the sluggish metal.
At the time, he was dead wrong. So? With the bond action today, maybe his stagflation ship can be seen, by a keen eye, from the shore.
The CB's are all lining up for the easy money express.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:17 - ID#280214)
A Kitohlic going through withdrawal.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:25 - ID#190411)
Squirrel, I'll e-mail you tomorrow.
Wow, did you notice the contrary BS here tonight, considering the biggest news in the last several weeks?
I still haven't seen a funnymental analysis of today's XAU burst.
Maybe CoBra knows more than charts.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:34 - ID#252150)
I stated here a few weeks ago that the lemmings would follow
Neutered Gingrinch over the cliff. No matter what kind of a spin they try to put on it, that's what they did. Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Gingrinch is the demos best supporter. I despise all politicians but really think that as slimy as they are the, demos are smarter than the repubicans.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:37 - ID#227238)
Skinny @ the Templars:
I didn't overlook your comment re same. It's just that I have had no end of connect problems, strange voices on the phone line and etc .... ever since that late conversation regarding 'Them'.

If you recall, John Disney followed it up with an equally unsettling comment. I think he's one of 'Them'. I don't think King Philip got 'em all. ........ It would be unwise and indelicate to proceed further with this. "They" are watching. I know they are.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:37 - ID#257312)

Welcome back! Have enjoyed your posts and perspectives. Despite my time at Kitco, I am very busy with work, saving my family from Y2K, and raising two retrievers. Still, if I'm away from Kitco for more than a day, I wonder what is happening here and what I am missing. There is something about this forum, eh!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:38 - ID#219363)
Bond Prices Plunge
NEW YORK ( AP ) -- Treasury prices plunged nearly 2 points Wednesday on fading hopes for a quick cut in interest rates and weak demand for 10-year notes in a government auction. The price of the benchmark 30-year Treasury bond dropped 1 23/32 points, or $17.19 per $1,000 in face value. Its yield, which moves in the opposite direction from price, soared to 5.32 percent from 5.21 percent late Tuesday. Traders said that demand for the 10-year notes was extremely weak in the auction, an indication that investors are no longer as concerned about buying the most safe and liquid securities due to the global market turmoil. Treasury securities have rallied in recent months as investors snapped up bonds backed by the U.S. government to ride out the gyrations afflicting global stock markets. But with several markets bouncing back, including Wall Street, fewer investors are as concerned about staying out of stock markets.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:40 - ID#153110)
Any particular reason for the apparent slam in "strange Mozellian forms of justice" @15:41 ?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:43 - ID#219363)
Tokyo Stocks Down
TOKYO ( AP ) -- Tokyo's main stock index declined in morning trading Thursday as investors took profits following the previous day's sharp gains. The dollar rose against the yen. The Nikkei Stock Average fell 83.07 points, or 0.57 percent, to finish the morning session at 14,444.74. On Wednesday, the average surged 575.06 points, or 4.12 percent. The dollar bought 117.76 yen, up 1.12 yen from late in Tokyo on Wednesday and also above its level of 116.60 yen in New York. The Nikkei moved lower as traders locked in profits after it soared Wednesday on comments by influential Morgan Stanley strategist Barton Biggs, who said Tokyo shares were undervalued. Reports in a major Japanese business daily on Thursday that the government will delay debating income, corporate and housing tax cuts until the regular Parliament session next year, rather than during an extra session this year, also hurt sentiment.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:48 - ID#219363)
Fed: Some Signs of Slower Economy
WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- Although most Americans are still benefiting from plentiful jobs and low prices, factories and farms are among those feeling the chill as hard times abroad cool the U.S. economy, the Federal Reserve reported Wednesday. "The pace of economic expansion moderated in September and October," the Fed concluded from a survey compiled by its 12 regional banks. Looking ahead, the central bank said "businesses and consumers remained cautious about the economic outlook." All but one of the Fed banks said overall manufacturing activity in their areas has slowed, with most factories blaming decreased demand for U.S. products overseas or competition from inexpensive imports. For example, steel producers in the Cleveland, Atlanta and Chicago regions complained of a dramatic increase in low-priced imported steel. In a separate report Wednesday, the Commerce Department said orders to American factories -- an indicator of manufacturing activity in the months to come -- rose a modest 0.4 percent, leaning significantly on demand from the military. The Fed banks, in interviews conducted before Oct. 26, found farmers squeezed too, by low commodity prices resulting from declining world demand -- and in some places their troubles have been contagious.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:49 - ID#254288)

A very consistant producer under excellent management that does what it says and does it well, but goes unnoticed as it relies on performance rather than boosts.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:52 - ID#350145)
comservative vs liberal - past vs future
to me a conservative is one who wants to cling to the past ( conservative -def - averse to rapid change ) and a liberal ( me ) is one who reaches for the future. period. i embrace NO dogma, all i want is a humane and just society for all. and i feel the present is more just than the past and the future will be more just than the present. i do not feel a need to hold on to any dogma. i think there is always a more sophisticated answer, and i am always ready to shed my ideas for a better one. just my two cents for what it is worth.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:56 - ID#347457)
@Squirrel, here goes one more lurker
Well, it does not look that things changed too much, If it is not racial/ethnic discussion than it is socialism versus good ol' capitalism, democrats versus republicans, Farfell versus LGB, etc. Not much talk about Gold any more. Oh well, back to lurking :- (

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:57 - ID#153110)
There are no referees at duels. Only seconds. If I did agree to second for either F* or Bugall, I would do so to encourage reconciliation before the event.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:57 - ID#227238)
If ROR is representative of the quality of thought among DemSoc's, there is very little to fear in their ideas. Every thought seems to speed down blind alleys and smack headlong into a concrete wall.

Gold is suddenly a liberational icon to them. Ignoring of course that if the common man has gold he will need the DemSoc's even less than he needs neutered Newt.

They have elevated FDR to saint. Ignoring completely that he removed gold from the hand of the common man. Some saint.

Suddenly he has embraced the new gov of Minnesota as an active agent on their behalf. From all that I have read, Jesse wants less govt not more and cannot abide bureaucrats of any stripe. ...... Hardly a fit candidate for honors in the DemSoc society.

Their other ideas are nothing more than a means to form a new special interest party, able and willing to raid the treasury on their own behalf. ........ Hell, do they even exist as an active organization, beyond ROR's fevered ruminations? ...... For all we know, ROR only exists in a cell somewhere, pounding out his rendition of "Mein Kampf".

In the end, its nothing more than a case of fever blisters on the frontal lobes.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 00:59 - ID#238422)
My brother John Disney is not a Templar...this I know.
The real Templar was ANOTHER...he knew too much + he
wanted us to think long and hard, which is one of the
Templar's tricks. I tried...and it hurt me real bad...
Yesterday I found a spot of rust on my car - no doubt,
Templars are involved...On the other hand, there are
good Templars and bad the way, this CIA
guy Oldrich ( ? ) , who sold America to Russia, was a
Templar...they also sold gold...let's do something
until it's not too late...
It's too late, time to go to bed and see the next
nightmare about this Templar conspiracy....

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:02 - ID#153120)
Templars and Long Term Credit Management
It was a well kept secret but you must know by now who shook down the banking system and engineered the concept of Hedge Funds. The same thing happen to Egypt in the 13th century when the Grand Master "hedged" his position in Jerusalem.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:02 - ID#227238)
Quite the contrary my friend, it was an allusion to the trend of what passes for justice these days. As you have clearly and painstakingly outlined on many occasions. I apologize if that was not made clear, in context.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:03 - ID#31868)
Envy, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...Hmmmmmmmm...this regular man you
speak envision easily this man as Governor...yet on a larger, perhaps more grandiose plane your eyes lose the ViSion and as President his are attributes, which fade as His Hand is placed on the Book and the Oath taken as Leader of the FREE given...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...simple strengths...are the most honest...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:06 - ID#227238)
See what I mean? You cannot dabble in the same arena with 'darker powers' and expect to remain untouched. ....... Best to leave quietly and not look back.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:12 - ID#31868)
Squirrel, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...withdrawal...for me a take your
time t'ill you feel comfortable...its more what is not said than what is spoken that really matters...silence always shatters the shallow of sound...from within the deep of silence,,,...are the words spoken which make ears useless...and understanding possible...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:13 - ID#238422)
I see now...that is real spooky...and they were cheating
on us all this time. I bet somebody at this site is a
Grand Master of Templars...but who is he? I say we must
find him....Good night, brother.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:15 - ID#254288)

I really meant organic frtilizers, like from a feed lot so as to clear the air, but reconcillation; now that would be difficult as in Serbia, but good luck and avoid being spattered.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:18 - ID#31868)
Selby, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...somehow missed your post...excuse me...
if you have still not found the site you me...: and I and friends will uncover the link...we seek no advantage and Hope that we can help...yup...uh huh...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:23 - ID#413175)
Sense of proportion

Somebody mentioned that U.S. philosopher, Rogers ( he was misquoted ) . Let's ease up here on this board and think about something else he had to say:

"We are here just for a spell and then pass on...So get a few

laughs and do the best you can. Live your life so that whenever

you lose, you are ahead."

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:24 - ID#153120)
Skinny: We all serve the Temple
Skinny asked if the Templars are gone, no they are still here. King Phillip the Fair of France was successful in purging France from their evil influence, but there were many Templars left in Britain protected by Edward. King Edward II ( known as the hammer of the Scotts for the atrocities committed upon Scotland ) was a very friendly with the Templars however he was in no position to assist the Templars as Phillip the Fair out positioned Edward and the Knights of the Temple of King Solomon with his contacts in Rome. Pope Innocents the IV was convinced of the evilness of and excommunicated the order and sent their souls to hell.

A few Templars successfully fled France, they left with a ship full of gold and treasure, which they used to grub steak their claim on the wealth of planet earth. As far as they are concern, if you got it, they want it: hand it over or die. I'm convinced that if you were to pick up a stone you would be as likely to find a Templar under it as a insect.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:25 - ID#206235)
@ Jack....
Tell us Jack....if you had to continuously be subjected to unprovoked strings of vituperative insults, simply due to differences of opinion in your investment philosophy, would it please you?

I always find it amusing to read the smarmy self righteous condemnations from the folks who aren't subjected to such posts as the farfel quotes I put up earlier from 11/2.

Just how would YOU have responded to that post might I ask? In my case, my response was to mention, the following morning, that I was not going to do any lengthy rebuttal, but just allow it to stand on it's own merits as a beacon of the differences between *Fspot and I.

However, this didn't satisy never does. He will continue his behaviour and site disruptions until he is told in no uncertain terms to cease and desist. SHould you read back to the greatest, biggest, nastiest , site disrupting foodfights here, you'll find *Fboy is the common factor in them all. the 9mm ammo, I wouldn't waste good ammo that way.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:28 - ID#153110)
@Earl @Mosel's View of Envy's Moderate Party
@Earl Thanks. Feel better. Rumor of one warrant out on me at a time is more than enough.

@Moderate Party
They are the worst for they believe in government the most. Like the people who believe money suply created by the Fed creates things and prosperity, they believe in government services. They were not much of a nuisance until they enacted zoning ordinances. It is the Moderate Party gracy train. Needless to say Real Estate people, Banksters, and their hangers on are the core of the Moderate Party. The story of one group of locals plotting in City Hall at night to defraud their neighbors by zoning their property out of the money which began in the 1920's and goes on to this day is the longest running story of corrupt land grabbing and thievery in the annals of mankind. Of course, control over roads are important to the Moderate Party. Not only for the paving and repairing contracts, but also for the power to decide whose little plot can host a strip mall or a new plant. And whose cannot. Finally, the Moderate Party cares about public education. The teacher's salary. School construction. And school buses. More is spent on transportation than on any other single category by the Moderate Party educationists. And the result of all this Moderate Party investoment in compulsory government run schooling ? Dumbed down pupils. Graduates who cannot discern that the Banker, Real Estate Lady, Insurance Company, Zoning Board, and friends are in cahoots to profit from an enforced by ordinance high cost of just living.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:30 - ID#206235)
@ Jack.....
Correction.... .357 magnum ammo! I was thinking fondly of my Ruger P85.. I prefer it to the S & W .357. Less knowckdown power, true, but better action, accuracy, and....

Oops. Almost forgot, Gun talk and politics is only on weekends! Go Gold!

Asian markets up...DOW will follow tomorrow....but with no strength.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:32 - ID#227238)
An humane society is a laudable goal. No new ground broken there.

When the master feeds his chickens is he serving the chickens or are the chickens serving him? Likewise if a society devolves into a mad special interest pleading in an attempt to receive larger share of scraps from a central master; are we discussing a liberal society where the worth of the individual is truly recognised? Who is serving whom and for what purpose? What purpose does the political master serve if there is no special interest pleading?

How can I be equal to you if your share of the master's scraps is larger than mine? Men in the yoke and harness of another cannot speak of equality. It doesn't exist.

If the master treats you more "kindly and more gently", it's only because someone else is ordained to pick up the slack. That's plainly what we have. Is that a liberal society? Is that what you have in mind?

If we are free men, what need have we of servants or masters? None that I can think of.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:34 - ID#206235)
@ Mozel
Good to see you back Mozel. Rumors of your demise were greatly exxagerated. What do you think of the Socialist's gaining ever more power in this election?

Looks like the Republicans are being punished for Bill CLinton's sins...oops, there I go on weekend topics again.

Well anyway, here in CA, we're in for a regulatory orgy not seen since the 60's. We have the former sidekick of Jerry "Moonbeam" communist party Brown as Gov. now, and the state legislature controlled in both houses...then of course Boxer won her senate seat...sigh....... time for a glass of Vino and bed. Tomorrow is another day.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:42 - ID#411259)
..... We get .....

All the democracy we deserve


(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:42 - ID#280214)
To all you want to say "I told you so"
I still must somehow ration my internet time so I have a life outside the internet.
Bart just e-mailed me ( as he note my plea of "uncle" ) .
He wrote the following advice.
"There is such a thing as 'internet addiction' which does affect the lives of many people. But there are places you can go for help. Ironically they are on the internet."

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:42 - ID#206235)
Liberal vs. Conservative
Is it more progressive and just to allow a man the freedom to better his condition and benefit from his labor..... or to take what he earns away from him, shackle him with restrictions in every area of life, and tell him he is a slave to his less economically fortunate fellows?

The age old question....

Personally, I consider compassionate conservatism an adopted philosophy. I don't line up in "knee jerk" fashion with Libertarians or Republicans though. Opposing them on the minimum wage issue for example. When you can't rent a one bedroom apartment, pay the utilities, and buy basic food on mimimum wage, it's time for an increase. We can afford the extra nickle price on the Cheeseburger at Wendy's.... yes?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:44 - ID#227238)
Good. Now let's take a look at the morals charge, shall we? .... LOL.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:47 - ID#280214)
Miro - I must become more selective in my readings
The mouse on the scroll bar must blow right past much of the endless, circular, ignorant, posts for the sake of seeing their posts in "print".
Any post by Mozel on government qualifies for this treatment ( his posts on Gold, OTOH, may be worth stopping to read - when if I notice them ) .

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:53 - ID#153110)
Your last post was eloquence in service of the truth. Those who would be masters would persuade us to place power which belongs in the hands of free individuals in a free society instead in the hands of a few. Government services combines like with unlike. Services are voluntary and positive, but government is involuntary and negative. You cannot do good when your tool is at best the lesser of two evils. Defense and Justice by due process on principles of common-Law are the proper spheres of government.

We are witness to the absurd spectacle today of local and state government competing for enterprise with tax and funding favors. We are witness to federal rules on commerce that are more burdensome than any number of state tariffs would have been. We would be infinitely better served if we returned to the Articles of Confederation, which, of course, are still in force.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:54 - ID#227238)
I think I'll regret this but I agree with most of what you just said. Though your range of process is tightly bounded by present consensus. ...... If govt did not produce the economic distortions that it does, would we still have need for a minimum wage? Likely you would not be paid as handsomely as present but a grill flipper might make enough to assure a living wage.

But as long as folks like defense contractors, for example, are allowed to range on very long publicly funded leashes, distortions will be introduced into what should be a free market for goods, services and compensation for human talent. You want a free market??

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:54 - ID#280214)
I may finally understand why some should buy Gold
They have a lot of cash or other paper "investments" at risk.
Thus turning those into Gold or other commodities may be wise.
But those of us who must sacrifice buying commodities to buy Gold
may be better off buying commodities we can eat or burn for warmth.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:57 - ID#257312)
"Do The Knights Templars Still Exist?"

At great peril, I have found a clue. Don't believe me? Read this. People in "missile system technology, the medical field, and oceanographic research." Dear god, Watson.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 01:58 - ID#31868)
mozel, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...the following is proof from the Reno mouth
that she is no longer a member of law enforcement...she has become a teacher...philosopher and politician...given the venue she speaks in and the guidance she persuades/pervades through her written and spoken words which obviously alleviate her in a Constitutional...factual and literal series of fact through which her Oath is disingenuous from the opusone can only consider hernothing more or less than a piece of the inventory which allows a dirtbag like Clintler to remain as President

If its brokenFIX IT

And for the uninitiated crowdI am Kevan S. KhanamirianI should be easy to findthere are only one of me in all of North Americayupuh huh

HeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeersJanetthe Attorney General of these United States

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:01 - ID#257312)
The Templars Corrected URL

Try this, Watson-- http:/

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:02 - ID#341227)
LGBUGALISTIC....still amuses me to no end...
The man has spent practically ALL his previous posts attacking me, slandering me, and obsessing about me.

Does he ever think about anybody else in his life? He must surely be in love with me...but I'm sorry if I do not return the affection.

He is appalled to see someone on this forum stand up to his snide comments, his constant ridicule of goldbugs, his haughty disdain of anybody "foolish" enough to invest in the yellow metal.

What it all comes down to is this...this man has chased some great minds off this forum with his constant belittlement of anybody other than investors in Plat, silver, equities, and bonds. Bart, how did your gold forum turn into an anti-gold forum led by the likes of LGBUGULLYistic?

He slandered and smeared PH in LA for ages...and he has never forgiven me for not joining him in the smear campaign ( See Post below ) . When LGBULLYGAListic implored me like a whining little boy to join him in his anti-PH smear campaign, I turned around and attacked him. So, he has it in for me from here until eternity. Anybody who wonders where the roots of his animus lies towards me, it is that I did not ally myself with him in his endless spate of hatemongering against PH.

I am not a big fan of reposting old material. I usually leave that to LGBUGallistic . However, Behold the weasel in all his LGBUGalistic glory......


Date: Mon Jun 29 1998 14:20
LGB ( @ Farfel....UhOhhh ) ID#269409:
Didn't know you were so close by...listen, I can see yer in a bad mood and all, and I think everyone deserves a melt down now and then, ( and I have a LOT of rocket science to do today ) so let's remain truce like and dump on that know nothing, contributing nothing, critic, PH together yes?

Sorry, I've had my differences with PH, but they were over and done with in the blink of an eye....unlike LGBULLYAlist's incessant smear campaign against him, filling pages and pages of historical Kitco posts. ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Now that PH has left this forum ( permanently ) , LGBULLYGUListic has turned his wrath and focus onto me.

But I ain't leaving, fella. Too bad isn't it?



(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:04 - ID#257312)
Once More

Will call it a knight if this isn't the right link to the Templars.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:07 - ID#153110)
@Bugall Minimum Wage
I believe in liberty of contract. You believe in minimum wage. It makes no sense to me to grant government power over wages and withhold it over prices. So, I suppose you also believe in agricultural "price support". This is merely minumum wage for a whole sector. I could go on in this vein and where would logic stop me ? At the recent election results in Cal, I guess. A majority of the 38% of registered voters ( which is what % of all adults ) is slim foundation for a government when push comes to shove.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:13 - ID#227238)
There is no argument available related to the allocation of personal resources.

On the one hand I sense some frustration on your part, on the other it would be wise to recognise that each of us lives with the same limitations in greater or lesser degree. ..... BUT we make those choices for ourselves, without interference.

I think that is an elemental part of being free.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:14 - ID#219363)
A good morning to you ( eastern time ) . I think Ventura will make a fine governor for all kinds of reasons, one of which is that he's had experience in politics before at a much lower level. I think he's going to fumble around and that he should call together a group of people that are experienced, people he can trust, in order to get up to speed on being governor of the state. The reason I said I wouldn't want him as President has nothing to do with his character, intentions, etc, it's just a matter of experience, he's going to have a tough enough time as governor, as President, well, the folks in DC would have him for lunch. I don't think I could vote a man into office as President if he hadn't at least been governor, or held a very responsible position somewhere along the line. Being a politician is a job, and it's not an easy one, there are skills involved. I don't mean things like being able to give a good speech, we've had leaders who couldn't do that, but it takes experience to be comfortable enough to know what you should worry about and what you should let someone else worry about, how to pick your battles, what's important, and how to keep yourself objective and in the "big picture". Anyway, that's what I meant. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he'd make a good President even if he had experience, let's see how he does as governor first.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:17 - ID#227238)
Do you realize what you've set loose??? "Do they still exist?" .... LOL.

John Disney
(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:18 - ID#24135)
time for a press conference ..
to all

Regarding recent allegations that I am a "templar" ..
firstly .. that depends on what you mean by "am" ..
secondly .. I will not answer any questions that
have not been cleared with counsel..
thirdly .. I will not do opposing council's homework..
forthly .. I plan to plead the Fifth and if that is
not enough, Ill take the first.
fifthly .. I think we should straighten this out
sooner rather than later ..
sixthly .. All questions on herpes should be directed
to my nurse ( she's the one in the short skirt ) .

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:21 - ID#257312)

What ticks me off more than anything is that you snitched on a fellow Kitcoite. I am speaking of your public post to Bart about Rich's post. You could have privately e mailed Bart, or asked Rich to e mail you and explain his remark. Instead, you ratted out a fellow Kitcoite.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:29 - ID#227238)
That settles it then. A declaration of rights under whats left of the fifth amendment, automatically requires a presumption of guilt. Case closed. ....... Now, how do wish to enter the herpes thing? With blisters or not? .....yuck! think that's enough of that.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:30 - ID#153110)
I can't perceive from your cyber whether or not you are irrationally hostile to my posting like the internet addicted tree rodent or not. I decline your nomination to the post of referee as it places me too close to damgerous odors. And my schooling in human nature says it is safer to take sides during the birth of a nation.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:36 - ID#153110)
@Power over Minimum Wage is
power over all wages. Now what kind of government is that, pray tell ?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:45 - ID#31868)
Envy, Namaste' gulp and a puff to my friend
is so very is people that complicate it...I ( think ) that I understand what you are saying...I reckon my thought was and is that the most polished stone is not always the perfect fit for the setting...

The flesh that the thing that is me lives in has a clear-cut understanding of those who would sacrifice image for depth of integrity within themselves and sadly to sayothersI realize that being truthful is not fractiousnoit allows Honor to be frozen in the Amber representing the fossils of our soulsthat man or woman that can not reconstruct character is one who will flounder through this life

The ill-begotten whore of denial in OUR House quite clearly is remiss of these qualities and thoughtsand like the husk on diseased Corn he shall be discardedlike the baby with the bath water

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:48 - ID#340383)
The agony of it all
The most-deserving recipient of F-spot's venom is F-spot himself.
So, F-spot, why not just save your little venom for later, or simply lock yourself into a closet and talk to yourself. You know, keep yourself busy, and give the world a break. Nobody here wants, needs or deserves any of your stuff and you lessen the value of the site with your every post. Is that your intention? Seems like your life has a strange focus. Any time you speak about the high quality of your life, or the low quality of anyone
else's life, we *do* get a picture of what a sad and lonely guy you are. It's too bad. You could have gone into politics and been a real champ.

Just save it for later, and

Thanks!..... I think it's a great slam when you end your blab this way, as if there is anything to be thankful for, or if anyone would want your thanks.


(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:54 - ID#340383)
Double joy
It is a joy to have current, accurate spot prices at the top of the Site, Bart, and I thank you.

It is double joy that for almost all of the past 24 hours, all four of the arrows have been green.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 02:55 - ID#153110)
@Minimum Wage @Politicians
Without Liberty of Contract what are you if not another's servant ? Compelled performance is about Law not about chains like in the movies.

Public servants perform the duties of public office. Policitans have jobs in government.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 03:00 - ID#386245)
If LGB and Farfel are going to have a duel
I suggest they use flame throwers at ten paces{:- ) ) .

(Thu Nov 05 1998 03:02 - ID#333126)
brazil and taiwan news
Brazil reforms make some progress

Taiwan still having stock trading defaults

(Thu Nov 05 1998 03:03 - ID#254288)

In my judgement popular opinion has been so formed as to consider gold-bugs as wild-eyed madmen who pray for the end of society; while I and many others of this belief just desire to place our bets without government interference.

When government{s} support an LTCM to cover major bank errors, or allow their CB's to create the impression that gold is just a commodity while promoting fiat monies in a world where currencies are in turmoil; something is drastically wrong. Good God these bummers will drop the price so a serious miner cannot make a profit and only because the argument of inflationary fears.

Because of this, I can understand why some here get upset.

There is no question that some of us get over exuberant in our hopes for the metal, but that should be easily discernable to the visiting lurker.

On the otherhand we find much excellent material here at Kitco.

But feel that the ethnic, religious, political and personality fights that seem to explode here from time to time could possibly bore non gold-bug lurkers so that they may give up on the idea of gold investment, while it will likely detract some of the regulars who may get mad or silly.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 03:07 - ID#25490)
Do you still celebrate Guy Fawkes? Fireworks are lighting up the town tonight. Big, bright, noisy fireworks. My golden shower was a dud, bud.

Guy Fawkes, the fella that tried to blow up the Houses of Parliament over in Pongolia.

We could do with more of his sort, eh?

Could be the start of a new TV Sport. Like Wrestling and Gladiators. An incendiary idea.

Pass the match and praise the ammunition

(Thu Nov 05 1998 03:12 - ID#25490)
the lunatics are on the grass, --- for medical reasons, of course...
Gidday. It's a lunar thing. Every few months, at about the time of the full moon things can get a little heated around here. I've made the observation before. Long time ago I used to work in a psychiatric hospital, Tokanui in the Waikato. Sort of thing happened to the patients, not every full moon, but sometimes, they'd go off in large numbers. ( so did some of the staff )

(Thu Nov 05 1998 03:16 - ID#153120)
Disney in the Temple
I think you do protest to much! What Templar would admit his abominations? Being damned to hell and understanding that the only pleasure a Templar will every experience will be here on Earth it would only be expected that such a lost soul would wonder in the canyons of Wall Street to exploit innocent American IRA and 401K investors.

Tell me John, do you still stable your horses in a Church? Oh excuse me of course you don't.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 03:17 - ID#31868)
mozel, Namaste' gulp and a puff...why...bandy about in in words written in stone...
what truths are held self evident?I believe the term was We hold these truths to be self evidenttherefore how can a contract have meaning unless We agree to ittherein lies the fundamental fallacy of a contracttwo selves agreeing to interpret words and actions as onetwo as onewhere is Einstein when you need him?

The truth can...NOT be defined soley as this...but for me...the truth is that which lacks all the truth were only one thing it would not have five letters...nope...the truth like a flawless Diamond has many sides...clarity...through whose spectral gaze eh...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 03:24 - ID#31868)
To all...Namaste'...
Appreciate what you have and this Life will cling to you...

gulp and a puff all around...tip O the Hat...Dig it...

Good Eve to all....................................thud...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 03:31 - ID#386245)
I've got this good mate...
...who went berserk today.

He had this big pile of plastic ( polymer ) and didn't know what to do with it ( Aussies gave up on paper fiat a coupla years ago--this stuff is harder to counterfit--still ain't worth sh$t,though ) .

His called him and said he had a big batch of new 'stuff' in. Sooooooooooo, he just couldn't help himself. He's got no bloody discipline and changes all his plastic for barbarous and other anti-pollution relics as quickly as he can. Pretty dumb, this mate of mine.

Tonight, he's sitting there in front of his computer, just looking at his worthless metals.

1 Kg Ag kookaburra
10 oz Ag kookaburra
roll of worthless Yanqui $5 Au whatchamacallits
bunch of 1/20th oz platinum pollution arrestors
4 and 5 coin ( 1/20th to 1 oz ) plat and Au proof fancy whoosamawhatsits
Bunch of foreign platinum ( Isle of Man ) etc. whatchamacallits ( all proof--in fancy boxes )
100xsilver coins--proof in fancy display case.

Stupid bugger PAID SPOT + 5% ( Oh--only 2% for the foreign PROOF stuff ) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Don't know why he's sitting there smiling. Got rid of all his plastic for a bunch of worthless metal thingies. I'm gonna give him another slap to smarten him up--just as soon as I finish this beer.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 03:41 - ID#390259)
Obsidian --- Marijuana
Their is no need to recur to the drug itself for healing purposes. We have developped a process to transfer the healing vibration to glass cells and medical powder. They do the same healing without the disadvantages.



(Thu Nov 05 1998 03:51 - ID#25490)
How to pack your Pachyderm?

ANOTHER tough year for the Darwin Awards...I like the bored couple with a stick of dynamite, but, the judges decided:

PADERBORN, GERMANY - Overzealous zookeeper Friedrich Riesfeldt
fed his constipated elephant Stefan 22 doses of animal laxative and
more than a bushel of berries, figs and prunes before the plugged-up
pachyderm finally let fly-and suffocated the keeper under 200
pounds of poop! Investigators say ill-fated Friedrich, 46, was
attempting to give the ailing elephant an olive-oil enema when the
relieved beast unloaded on him like a dump truck full of mud. "The
sheer force of the elephant's unexpected defecation knocked Mr.
Riesfeldt to the ground, where he struck his head on a rock and lay
unconscious as the elephant continued to evacuate his bowels on top
of him," said flabbergasted Paderborn police detective Erik Dern.
"With no one there to help him, he lay under all that dung for at least
an hour before a watchman came along, and during that time he
suffocated. "It seems to be just one of those freak accidents that

(Thu Nov 05 1998 03:54 - ID#153110)
The power of legal force may come solely from the barrel of a gun, but All Law is from scripture. As gold fixes worth as a unit of account, medium of exchange, and store of value, scripture fixes Law. When man's law flows from the barrel of a gun, it changes according to whose hands hold the gun. When man's law stands on the foundation of the Law revealed in scripture, its foundations are sure.

There is no gold in the atheist socialist's earthly utopia and man's law is no more fixed there than is the atheist's fiat currency.

So, the men who can say We hold these truths to be self-evident are men who have already accepted a higher authority than themselves as the source of knowledge of the Law of Nature and of Nature's God. This done not by contract but by unanimous declaration.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:00 - ID#258195)
Wednesday's Gold and Silver Lease Rates
For Weds 04 Nov calculated from data published in today's FT.
Period------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month

Mean GoldLR------4.58---------------4.11-------------3.72-----------------3.19
Gold Lease Rate---0.70---------------1.20-------------1.34-----------------1.72
( Change ) ---- ( + 0.11 ) -------- ( + 0.04 ) ------- ( - 0.04 ) ----------- ( - 0.02 )

Silver Lend Rate----3.70--------------3.00--------------2.00-----------------1.90
Silver Lease Rate---1.58--------------2.31--------------3.06-----------------3.01
( Change ) ------ ( 0.00 ) -------- ( 0.00 ) ------- ( - 0.05 ) ---------- ( - 0.15 )
Lease Rate equals $LIBOR minus Lending Rate
Mean Gold Lending Rates and Silver Lending Rates are supplied to the FT by NM Rothschild .
The lines labelled ( Change ) = changes in lease rates since previous day's figures.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:03 - ID#432148)
mozel - you mentioned the election results in Calif.
They made me cry. I guess there are now too many teacher union members, civil servents, people on the dole in one way or another, gender voters, etc. to ever hope for say a moderate government, to say nothing about a conservative one. When Boxer can lie her way into office and out of trouble like her relative, we have problems my friend. I have failed to mention the liberal press and liberal academic establishment and the tort lawyers in the above. Forgive me.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:18 - ID#386245)
G'day Auracious
I don't believe that we have an antipodean counterpart to Janet Reno.

Recently in Sydney, A 14 y.o. boy was murdered by an ethnic gang . The police know who dunnit. They will not and can not arrest or charge him until a witness steps forth. Witnesses are too scared to do so.

In Amerka the whole gang would be rounded up and sequestered until someone admitted what had happened ( under considerable pressure ) . You posted the other day about the difference in tactics between N. Amerka and Antipodea. The cops here are under extreme stress to NOT deal harshly with 'presumed' offenders. Presumption is of innocence until proven otherwise. What I am trying to say is that I feel much more comfortable with Antipodean law enforcement officers than with N. Amerkan. I have lived sufficient years in both societies to form an opinion.

When Janet sent in the tanks, she epitomized Amerkan 'Justice'. A Janet would not survive down under.

BTW--have you seen the scene in 'The Blues Brothers' where the Chicago law enforcement officials corner the Bros.???? That scene says it all!!!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:23 - ID#26793)
Gold exploration seen falling due to low price

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:31 - ID#343259)
@Allen(USA) re Euro vs Y2k
I'm not sure I can go along with your thinking on "Euro code fixers" planning to ignore y2k and fix Euro as some "Master plan" to gain dominance in systems. The banking system ( s ) are just a small part of general financial systems deployment. I have had some dealings with computer people, and business management in Europe, and do not believe for one minute that they were *more* aware of Y2k than in the USA. In fact, I believe, they were less aware. I think that the fixation on the EURO issue, was because 1 ) it was a known agenda item, 2 ) had secured management approval/funding, and 3 ) was already moving down the road somewhat. My personal belief is that when Y2k came into focus, they pooh-poohed it, thinking ( as many others do ) that it either is a simple, overblown issue, and adopted a cope-with-overload strategy to focus-on-the-Euro because we-haven't-got-the-resources-anyway and maybe-it-will-go-away, and maybe with the system-wide review, we are doing for the Euro, we can clean things up a bit as we go, and make the Y2k fix easier.
I haven't seen banking management significantly more aware, or above other industry management in ability to deal with computerization. I haven't seen any management in any sector significantly above any other sector when it comes to understanding and developing Y2k solutions.
Nope. Looks quite clueless from this outpost. Heck, 2 years ago you never heard about y2k, but I and others like me knew about it years ago. As an example, I wrote the following error message in my system in 1980.. "If you are looking at this error message because you have just crashed on 1/1/1998, I am very suprised. I never thought the system would last so long. You need to know a few things. First, this message is a warning that you have one year to fix the dates before 1/1/1999...".
But, my opinion is just one of many, we'll know for sure in about 10,107 hours from now. We'll see together. OK?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:31 - ID#26793)
Russia says it has only 2 to 3 weeks of food left.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:37 - ID#25490)

Didja see that post earlier about someone who ran over a moose or something on the highway? The question was asked, when the beast was taken out from under the car, "Does anyone have a gun to put the moose down?" Seems like everyone did.

Now, there's always a problem when NZ hosts an Apec conference or something similar. You know, there's a whole lot of secret services around the world, protecting their Presidents, Prime Ministers and Dictators that carry guns. They get pretty pissed when they're told to leave their guns behind. They can't carry them in NZ.

But, thing is Nick, the only rational thing to do in Merka is to carry a bigger weapon than the next guy.

But, logical thinking can sure spread thin. Downunder it's illogical to own a gun, unless you're a hunter or target shooter.

Just not needed.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:38 - ID#343259)
@Butter is a Commodity
I posted a few weeks back about the high price of butter. ( Jumped to double price from about $2 to about $4. No response from group. I have since heard that due to El Nino, many ( thousands ) of milk cows died in rains in CA, and that high-fat products will be going up in price. Recently heard rumor that government butter stocks were near depletion. This should increase icecream prices as well, I would suppose, but I can't say I've seen it. Can anyone confirm or deny these rumors, or shed more light. Current price here is $4.37 per pound. Heck, maybe butter is greasing that slippery slope for the DJIA we're all waiting for.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:43 - ID#386245)
Can I vote again??
If you have never held a 1 Kg proof kookaburra in your hand, you do not understand the beauty of silver. A 1 kg.Au nugget ( while MUCH smaller ) is just as beeeeauutiful.
Oh no!!!! Soon you'll become an extinct species on Kitco, mate. You know what they're like, them female thingies!! They get jealous of your Kitco mistress, and before you know it you'll be doing animal things instead of talking to us.

My missus and I have got it sorted out. She doesn't bug me about Kitco and I don't bug her about the sentimental codswallop she watches on the tele. Been married 30 years, so it must work!!! When gold is in the doldrums I 're-introduce myself' to that stranger on the couch---whoooooeeeee--who says gold and soap don't mix!!!!!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:44 - ID#25490)
PS I remember the Blues Brother's Scene.
What ya think? Do our Merkan cousins travel the world? I just deleted a post before about travelling in Iran, Iraq & Afghanistan in 1974, just some places I thought I'd always be able to go back to see again. Like Timor, Yugoslavia and Kashmir, always thought I'd like to return to see them a second time, doesn't seem likely.

"Inspirations to travel are messages from God."

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:45 - ID#248180)
Not another racist Slur ! Aurator @ Darwin Awards
Aurator, He He. Was that an anti-German Zoo Keeper, racist Joke?
Was the Elephant Irish, Jewish or African?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:49 - ID#230376)
Why Merkins carry guns.............

We don't have enough constipated elephants !!!!! ( 'cept in Warshintoon ) .. Gooday from the chilly Midwest......Auracious; you ARE bodacious ! : - } eddie

(Thu Nov 05 1998 04:52 - ID#248180)
Moose & Woody Allen
NICK - All
I recall a very funny routine that Woody Allen did years ago, something about a moose and bringing it back to a party. Was very funny. Love to hear it again. Cheers JR.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:02 - ID#386245)
You Yanks don't need guns!!! If every Amerkan family had a constipated elephant, all your problems would be solved!!! On Jan 1, 2000, just back your elephant up to the front door and wait for the home invaders!!!! Cabloooooooooooooooooooeeeey!!!!! The White House has been serving elephant sh$t for years, so why can't you!!!!!
Auratraveller. I spent 3 months in Laos when the CIA was running the show. Now they've got their country back, I might go visit!!

Actooooly, with a $5,000,000 reward for Bin Laden's head, I might be going to Afghanistan soon. Wanna join me??? Cheers, Soldiers-of-Fortune-R-Us.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:03 - ID#230376)
"go for your pachyderm,you lilly livered sidewinder !" Har; has anyone tried to "quick draw" an elephant ? You could really hurt yourself ! ; - & ....go gold !

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:03 - ID#25490)
Saki.....My favourite short story writer....
Actually, amongst all that merkan competition, I thought the Europeans did well to steal the Darwin award. Just goes to show ya, anyone can beat the yanks!

Don't suppose you're familiar with a Saki Story "Tobermory" a Mr Cornelius Appin had successfully taught The cat Tobermory how to speak. Appin was most unpopular as Tobermory proved to be rather spiteful in his revelations of the private lives of the house guests, and his relating unflattering conversations that he had overheard. Mr Appin was not a popular guest.
Saki Ends his story with a small item from the Dresden News in which an Elephant in the Dresden Zoological Gardens went berserk and killed a gentleman who, apparently tried to teach the elephant German irregular verbs. The newspaper got the surname wrong, Appen, but we all know who it was..

"berserk" is one of the few Icelandic words adopted by English, just as "amok" is one of the few Malaysian words..

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:09 - ID#230376)
@ Nick@Constipated....

With your descripton and sound effcts I got one heck of a visual ! ROFLMAO ! Go even farther , gold !

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:10 - ID#284173)
currency turmoil
Anybody got any comments on the following article which proposes a single currency for the whole world?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:10 - ID#25490)
Hope you had a great birthday.

If you are going to Laos, let me know. I have a very good friend who is living there, and has been for about 3 years, his contract is up for renewal next year, I am looking forward to his staying with BJ & I in a few weeks. That man travels. He has spent more of his life in Thailand, Indonesia and Laos that in his homeland of Aotearoa.

Also looking forward to Meeting Au-Producer in a week or two, he has to collect on Steinlager futures ( That never expire ) and I've got to try to take some time off work to go fishing.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:12 - ID#230376)

pardon the expression , but , I gotta go !!! eddie@elephantiasis

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:14 - ID#386245)

As I believe you are a Canuckian, I shall forgive you for your anti-Amerkan reference. After all, who would want to insult a constipated elephant??!!?? There is enough bullsh$t floating around the Amerkan political scene without adding elephant sh$t to the mix.

I posted a few weeks ago that the Demogods would GAIN at this election and that the Dow would soar like an eagle. I had to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune for my audacity!!! Anyone who does not yet know that the puppetmasters are controlling the action, are due for a reality check. I have made several thou squid by following the 'fix'. The fix is 'in' and always has been. There was no way the market was going to go down BEFORE the election!!! Al fixed that!! Mom and Pop Amerkan were warm and comfy with their 'profits' on voting day. I posted about how PNG pollies buy votes with cartons of beer. Yours are just as obvious, and just as effective. Newt should've bought more beer!!!! Sex gets a bit tiresome when you're having a smoke!! Cheers, N.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:14 - ID#284173)
re previous post
remove "en" from the word "golden" in the URL

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:19 - ID#248180)
Away from Ethnic Elephants to Kitco Opinion Moniter
ALL: Why is everyone on/at Kitco so dog-gon Honest?
Bart has presented us with a great opportunity for predicting this Friday's Gold price. What did we do? We all gave an Honest call and vote.
Have we not yet learned anything from the spin doctors and puppet masters of Wall Street. We could have pushed the Yeller Feller over $300.00 and encouraged a few buyers. Come on let us RIG Bart's Chart.

See- $350-$385 Spot Gold, Now that looks real purdy don't it.

Cheers and Good night. JR

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:26 - ID#25490)
A most important question you posed. I suspect it is the same question that is engrossing SDRer at the moment.

I hope you have been following the adroit SDRer's line of thinking recently. SDRer's last post noted that there seemed to be an eerie harmonising of currencies with gold..

I live in the hope that SDRer has not been abducted by aliens or the Federales, and that we will be graced by some more SDRer information soon.

Is it on the left or right side?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:28 - ID#386245)
Ersel--I know you're not sleeping!!! All Kitcoholics say g'night and then hang around to see if anyone answers. I know--'caus I am a K........
...................Did you know that there are many lurkers out there who follow this insanity like a soap opera?? Most from countries with a poor command of Ingrish--but a few Ingrish speakers whom are afraid to add their 2 cents worth!! How many votes on the gold quiz??? 7 hundred something!! How many post?? I shall be visiting the Malaysian Nick@C fan club next week, where I shall be giving a speech on 'How to jail #2 and save your political bacon'. Hope it is well attended.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:28 - ID#248180)
Nick, No, I was Born in The USA. Calif. When asked to love or leave it. I left it. But I love many fine and wonderful people there.
Like the idea that every USA citizen ( not Americans ) should have a constipated Elephant. Cheers & Good night Jr.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:34 - ID#386245)
You are a man after my own heart. I commend you. If you ever wish to discuss things on a private basis, send sharefin an e-mail for me. We think very much alike. Goodnight brother. N.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:39 - ID#284255)
The Y2K threat to markets
The Financial Post

Canada's securities regulators have awoken to the urgency of the year 2000
computer problem, now less than 15 months away.

Investors who dismiss the threat should take note of the following passage
taken from the Ontario Securities Commission's new National Instrument
33-106: Year 2000 Reporting: "There is a substantial risk of material harm
to investors and the integrity of the capital markets."

'Bug could cause civil disaster'
Wednesday, November 4, 1998
By Political Correspondent Nick Assinder

A warning that the millennium bug could spark a civil
emergency requiring military intervention has come from
Scottish Secretary Donald Dewar.

The claim comes in a leaked letter which reveals a row
between Mr Dewar and Defence Secretary George
Robertson over cuts to the Territorial Army north of the

"Labour have previously
assured us that they were in
control of the millennium bug
problem. Fears are now
growing that this is no longer
the case."

John Disney
(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:48 - ID#24135)
my son the soothsayer..
to see what he thinks about things..
try ...

he says he has a free offer to kitconians..
not sure what it is .. his e-mail is there
somewhere if you are interested ..

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:54 - ID#386245)
G'day Sharefin
I am only just now realising what kind of panic is going to take hold a year from now. It is unstoppable!! We ( the informed ) are already getting worried. The great unwashed masses will soon be pelted with an unbridled bad press on Y2K. They are going to react, and I fear the consequences!! The self-fulfilling prophecy may be much worse than the event itself. The damage may be done BEFORE the event ( or non-event, as the case may be ) .

We live in a very non-violent country, and yet I am considering buying metals other than precious.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 05:55 - ID#284173)
thanks for the response - back in a few mins.... ( looking up SDRer )

(Thu Nov 05 1998 06:08 - ID#284255)
Swing chart

Will we get an extension???
Or is this the last chance to get short?

Spent 1/2 an hour with the local council on Y2k today - duh
Need I say more.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 06:25 - ID#386245)
S 'n P down a bit.
Aussie $$ up strongly ( therefore gold down ) .

(Thu Nov 05 1998 06:26 - ID#386245)

(Thu Nov 05 1998 06:28 - ID#386245)
Aussie $$ going up strongly means LESS forward selling by Aussie producers. Very positive for POG!!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 06:50 - ID#284173)

Anyway, referring to the article below, I am in favour of a "gold standard" however a world ( fiat ) currency does concern me a little.

At the risk of making a fool of myself ( due to my lack of knowledge in this area ) I wrote to the author.

Here's what I wrote:


I refer to the above article by you posted on golden eagle.

May I ask a few questions regarding your suggestion of a global currency based on gold.

( 1 ) what percentage of a nation's reserves do you invisage should be based on gold?

( 2 ) would the gold be part of each nation's reserves or would each nation be required to transfer all or part of its gold reserves to a central governing entity?

( 3 ) who would control the supply of money?

( 4 ) if the governments of the world adopt a common currency, would this mean that there would need to be a convergence of government policies world-wide?

( 5 ) if a common currency forces convergence of policies and requires decisions regarding world monetary policy, wouldn't we in fact need some of the functions of a WORLD GOVERNMENT? ( perhaps not in name but certainly in nature )

I am in favour of the discipline imposed by a non-partisan benchmark such as gold. I feel a full or partial gold standard should be considered by every sovereign nation - in their own time and subject to each one's particular circumstances.

However I am not in favour of world fiat currency. To me, world fiat currency is a bit like world government by the back door.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 06:58 - ID#411440)
LEASE RATES: I hate to dump on all the positive gold sentiment
of late, but one month lease rates are still below 1% although firming.
There can be no gold bull if CBs will lend gold for short-selling
at rates below 1%. There is just too much artificial liquidity.
We should be using this lease rate inspired price anomaly as an
opportunity to accumulate physical and equities.

IMHO a POG assault on $300 will fail if one month leases are below
1%. But each time the attempt is made, the CBs are adding to that
short overhang to push POG back down. The short overhang may now
total 20% of total CB gold reserves. When will the size of this
thing panic CB presidents? My fear is that they are already in a
panic, because this situation has got away from them. My fear is that
they can not allow the short overhang to unravel without bringing down
the wntire world financial system. In a perverted world, it is a
dangerous thing to be right. Buying gold is the right thing to do.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 06:59 - ID#288466)

Looks like a wave 3 to me.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 07:11 - ID#43349)

(Thu Nov 05 1998 07:15 - ID#288466)
Precious metals projections - the trial is still active

User: hixson

Password: thmetal

Gold ready to pop!




(Thu Nov 05 1998 07:21 - ID#224230)
@rhody - short overhang
I sense there is much to be learned from watching these lease rates - and agree with the essence of your post. I'm interested to know by what methodology you arrive at your estimates of 20% shortoverhang/gold reserves ? Are there historical figures with which to compare this estimate ?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 07:27 - ID#288115)
Seems my data vendor has dropped the ball once again. Is there anyone here who would be kind enough to give me the volume all contracts on NOV. 3rd for COMEX gold? Or maybe point me to a site that I can get it for myself?

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 07:34 - ID#224230)
cut and paste - saves typing.
A little cut and paste from a market watch on misc.invest.futures....


Even though the equity markets were higher ( most of the day much higher ) ,
even though the dollar was stronger, the precious metals turned in a good
performance on the up side. Gold rallied over $2 through its 100 day moving average and punished all those traders who solely rely on this sort of technical information. Silver closed about 2 cents higher even though many traders that we spoke with remain convinced that we will see it test its lows for the years. Platinum and palladium continued their recent rallies and still appear that they will go higher through their respective resistance areas.

The markets are very interesting here and now. Generally you have the funds selling short while physical demand and producer hedge buy backs are very supportive. The producer hedge buy backs are particularly seen from the Australian and South African producers where they currency has rallied rather sharply against the U.S. Dollar recently.

Canada, in its continuing program of selling their gold reserves, announced that they sold 68,000 ounces of gold in October knocking their reserves to only 2.5 million ounces. While some central banks are selling, others are buying. Mongolia announced today that they bought about 7.4 tons of gold so far this year.

And in the "I've got the best crystal ball department", Merrill Lynch
forecasts that gold will trade between $200 and $300 for the next 5 years. I would love to take the other side of this bet.

Just as quickly as gold fell through the 100 day moving average, it rallied through this number today. Gold was quite impressive today. Lets buy some.

RECOMMENDATIONS: Buy December gold at $290.50 and use a
$1.00 stop.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 07:37 - ID#288466)

Maybe your information is in here:

(Thu Nov 05 1998 07:50 - ID#411440)
@ esotericist: The 20% estimate refers to the 8000 ton short
overhang referred to so often on this site. The assumption was that
most of this came from CBs.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 07:53 - ID#255226)
SnP - The SnP looks strong and getting stronger. How far can it go? I don't know. Anyone trying to short it is going to get run out. Any breaks will be short lived. This strength could easily last until the end of the year. I don't see amy corrections going much below 1100-1090. I'm buying at the money calls selling out on any rallys and rolling into higher strike prices.

XAU-The xau had an impressive run up yesterday, but not the start of a new run. Should stop between 81-82, the rally does give it breathing room in case of a big break in the metals, creating the necessary divergence for a bottom.

Gold & Silver - These may hold up for 1 or 2 more days, by Mon or Tues they should roll over and head down to fill the gaps.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 07:54 - ID#224230)
Thank you - got it.

Steve in TO
(Thu Nov 05 1998 08:02 - ID#287337)
Frail: concerning your immigration application . . .
There are basically 3 ways to get into Canada. 1 ) have a job prearranged here 2 ) arrive from an unstable country that is unpopular with gliberals ( eg. Somalia ) and apply for refugee status 3 ) have wads of money and offer to set up a business worth at least $300,000 that employs at least one person other than yourself.

People moving here from the 'states without wads of cash to set up a business only get their application approved if they have a letter from an employer offering them a job. If the job is in a field in which there is a 'shortage' of workers, you'll get in. If the job is not one for which Big Brother has decided there is a shortage, your employer has to declare to the immigration bueaucrats that he conducted a job search by advertising in at least two pulications, and no suitable candidates were identified before you presented your ideal little self as a candidate. Of course, it's all a charade, but everyone dutifully fills out the forms and pushes the paper back and forth, and the employer gets the person he wants, and the bueaucrats add another notch to their productivity statistics : )

In my field bringing in whoever you want is no problem. You just make up a job description that only the person you want could fill ( for example "laboratory technician with expertise in isolating hippocampal neurons from neonatal rats" ) and advertise it- and lo and behold, only one person fills the bill! It's a bit more problematic if you want to bring in an electrician or an accountant.

Bet they never told you all that when you naively appeared at the consulate and applied . . .

- Steve

(Thu Nov 05 1998 08:12 - ID#35571)
Treasuries open up

(Thu Nov 05 1998 08:15 - ID#35571)

(Thu Nov 05 1998 08:20 - ID#423380)
@APH--Many Thanks--Really value your posts.
Exactly what I wanted to hear!!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 08:24 - ID#21275)
A big IF
If the economic news is good for the next few days and enough CNBC talking heads lower the chances of a rate cut this market should sell
off for a few days. SMALL CHANCE!!!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 08:41 - ID#43185)
Support for US bonds

(Thu Nov 05 1998 08:56 - ID#339274)
Bonds &Gold
FWIW Bonds have broken down from the call made last Friday
for a two month decline.The break at 127 gave the signal that
major damage is at hand.128 will contain any counter rally.
Platinum is in the driverseat and will give the signal as well
when the XAU rally is over.
The rally coming from an 18 day plateau on increased volume
in the big cap goldstocks could have a powerful run.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:03 - ID#213265)
@the scene
I'm rather surprised that no one on the site has suggested that Klinton should be passing out his 'special' cigars to all his compatriot supporters.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:05 - ID#371229)
Yesterday's Dow, NPR radio's Japanese citizen's gold purchases, &
Yesterday's intraday Dow chart up to PPT time ( 3:00pm ) had an island top. double top, head & shoulders, and key reversal all setting up. Then of course the

3:00 call to arms clarion brought on the nullification of all these bearish signals. So much then for the question of whether or not the PPT would remain active after the election. But, then again it may be possible to presume the day trader's have become so accustomed to this action that they now anticipate and aid it on their own out of habit.

Heard a report this morning on NPR radio's morning market place about the 3 fold increase in Japanese citizen's gold purchases since August. I thought they said they were favoring a 2.2 kg bar @ a cost of $9-10K ( would that be right? ) , taking it home as a protection against possible future bank failures. They did add though that the quantities were still too small to affect world prices. They said this was a flight to quality response in Japan that had otherwise been absent from world markets in light of CB sales in the past.

Had been totally unaware of the political phenonemon "the body". I believe his election does represent a ray of hope for the electorate and I wish him great luck. His support of less government, reduced taxes, less gun law restrictions, and legalization of prostition sounds as though he supports liberty and freedom. Great!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:18 - ID#43185)
Bonds rising quickly

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:18 - ID#369352)
Gold and a directional change in demand
This was clipped from a previous post here this morning:

"The markets are very interesting here and now. Generally you have the
funds selling short while physical demand and producer hedge buy backs
are very supportive. The producer hedge buy backs are particularly seen
from the Australian and South African producers where they currency has
rallied rather sharply against the U.S. Dollar recently."

IMHO, the increased physical demand demonstrated by the individual is beginning to make a difference, even with the doublespeak of the gov't trying to talk down the price of gold...the continued buying by these individuals will be the turning point for those shorting gold to cover and run...we must continue to load up on the physical gold! Bottoms in commodities based markets are usually slow in forming but powerful in the turn...they also usually happen when few people are looking and are preceeded by comments like those from Merrill Lynch "that gold will trade between $200-$300 for the next 5 years"...The herd never listens until the bull is roaring...look at the stock market, when I was telling everyone in August of 1982 that the market had turned and would rise from one would listen until 1985...3 years later...a lot of the good money was made in those 3 well as those that followed...both of these markets will turn...the DOW Down and Gold UP...keep buying Gold!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:23 - ID#298259)
Lower rates...
Bank of England lowered interest rates a more than expected 1/2 percent.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:29 - ID#369352)
With interest rates being cut in Europe, wouldn't you expect to cut rates here as well? Or, are they trying to strengthen the dollar here?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:34 - ID#284255)
You're only worried cause your read to much.
Perhaps more drinking could solve the problem. ( :- ) ) )

Everyday here in this small city of Cairns more and more people are interested when I show some Y2k knowledge.

The hunger for information is there.
And by the time the masses wake up we'd best be prepared.

Picked up a real steal today.

Down at the local recycle plant.
23 x 2 volt deep cycle batteries all for the grand sum of $50.
$2 each.^o-o^

Seems the Gov't likes to replace these beauties often and instead of throwing them in the sea, they now bring them back to land to recycle.
I'd guess they came from a radio or light installation.

All of them less than a few years old in mint condition with heaps of spark.

Bargains like this are to be had everywhere here.
Some fantastic steals at the local garage sales.
12volt fridge for $25 etc.

But you'd best get in early.
Leave it till next June and you'll be paying top dollar.

Here's some good poison:
Who was it that mentioned they need a mouse/rat exterminator?

One pint of alcohol, 1/4 oz. cayenne papper, 1 oz powdered anise seed,
1/4 oz. saltpeter, 1/4 oz. white lead, 4 oz. essense of hops, steam this
slowly for an hour, then add 30 drops quassia, let stand 48 hours, and
add a gallon of water; bottle for use. To use, saturate bread, meat,
etc. and lay it in their frequented places. In two nights not one will
be seen.

If I were single, I would NOT have this cooking when "company" came to call. If you do, you might find that the rats aren't the ONLY thing to dissappear in two days!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:35 - ID#413156)
Muddy Waters
Bart Kitco I see you have come to your senses and allowed free speech. Let it be gutter or other wise .In the case of LGB and Farfel and theyre shrinking penises Against their inflating Egos something will eventually disappear or become much smaller. This is my last comment on this subject. Mike Sheller I have both copies of Invasion of the body snatchers on dvd .The earlier version has a interview with the now older Kevin Mccarthy.I think both versions will be all time classics .PS Bart I like your new predication polls.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:44 - ID#339274)
FWIW sold 22 7/8

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:46 - ID#339274)
22 5/8

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:46 - ID#333126)
the effect of cutting interest rates

hmmm....... so much for the stock market boost.......

now searching for a website that has online intraday FTSE index charts.

anyone got a bead on these?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:50 - ID#25295)
you restored my faith.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:54 - ID#339274)
Should have sold yesterday : ) .Open market order at 22

(Thu Nov 05 1998 09:58 - ID#284255)
Hits from Kitco? A worldwide audience.
Networks ( .NET ) ------------------------------------4066 ( 43% )
Commercial ( .COM ) --------------------------------2505 ( 27% )
AUSTRALIA ( .AU ) --------------------------------755 ( 8% )
CANADA ( .CA ) --------------------------------------587 ( 6% )
Unknown ( .??? ) ------------------------------------509 ( 5% )
Educational ( .EDU ) -------------------------------156 ( 1% )
Organizations ( .ORG ) ----------------------------113 ( 1% )
NETHERLANDS ( .NL ) --------------------------107 ( 1% )
NEW ZEALAND ( .NZ ) ---------------------------67
JAPAN ( .JP ) -------------------------------------------56
GERMANY ( .DE ) -----------------------------------41
US Dept of Defense ( .MIL ) --------------------39
US Government ( .GOV ) -------------------------32
FRANCE ( .FR ) ---------------------------------------25
CYPRUS ( .CY ) ---------------------------------------21
United Kingdom ( .UK ) ----------------------------21
UNITED STATES ( .US ) ------------------------20
HONG KONG ( .HK ) ------------------------------12
SPAIN ( .ES ) ------------------------------------------11
ITALY ( .IT ) --------------------------------------------11
SOUTH AFRICA ( .ZA ) --------------------------11
MALAYSIA ( .MY ) ----------------------------------10
SWITZERLAND ( .CH ) --------------------------9
THAILAND ( .TH ) ----------------------------------9
ISRAEL ( .IL ) ------------------------------------------8
IRELAND ( .IE ) ---------------------------------------8
SINGAPORE ( .SG ) --------------------------------6
NEPAL ( .NP ) ------------------------------------------5
RUSSIAN FEDERATION ( .RU ) --------------4
BELGIUM ( .BE ) 3GREECE ( .GR ) -----------3
AUSTRIA ( .AT ) 3FINLAND ( .FI ) -------------2
TURKEY ( .TR ) 2SWEDEN ( .SE ) -----------2
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES ( .AE ) -----------2
Int. Organizations ( .INT ) --------------------------2
MEXICO ( .MX ) ----------------------------------------2
BRAZIL ( .BR ) -----------------------------------------1
INDONESIA ( .ID ) -----------------------------------1
NORWAY ( .NO ) -------------------------------------1
VENEZUELA ( .VE ) --------------------------------1
LUXEMBOURG ( .LU ) ----------------------------1

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:03 - ID#244418)
Thanks for your posts APH. I usually print them out to keep.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:07 - ID#350358)
I found this interesting.
The resonsibilities and requirements of fund managers,
... and their views on Y2K to the present.

"its ok to make bad decisions, just remember the reason you did it" *grin*

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:09 - ID#212197)
@RAN: Your 9:05... Gold Purchases of Japan's Citizens
A 2.2 Kg bar would approximately equate to 80 ounces and therefore approx. be $24k. Is that right?

Anyhow, thanks for this information. I always like to hear about people becoming more rational in their investment attitudes.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:14 - ID#43185)
Continuing rate cuts here by the Fed are already anticipated. The expectation is that they will lower by another 1/4 on their next meeting which I believe is November 17.

So if they do indeed lower, it won't affect the markets much.

If they don't.....

And indeed, there is some concern they might not since some economic figures show the economy still doing quite nicely, thank you, and the liquidiy crunch pretty well ended for the moment.

The US bond market is seen as somewhat excessively high due to foreign flight money earlier in the year.

Foregin rate cuts tend to be higher than 1/4.

All together it puts the US bond markets at some risk.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:23 - ID#284255)
SEC Y2k on Mutual Funds

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:23 - ID#43185)
NEM seems to be forming right shoulder of h&s top

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:25 - ID#43185)
bond market continues to rise

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:27 - ID#333126)
south korean woes not over

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:30 - ID#34459)
The Way I See It
G'Day Mates...CoBra here, a comment from this end on the overnite status,
XAU still in GO mode. ASL looking very good in last 15 trading hours, ready to run. Dec 98 AU ,From current, looks like a $1.50 lower stop would work...could have a pop up later today further boosting XAU.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:33 - ID#333126)
HK not transparent enough

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:34 - ID#371229)
less than expected 116,000 non farm jobs in Oct. Inadvertantly released early?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:37 - ID#242325)
Today is a day for caution by gold longs. AG is speaking. And by some strange coincidence gold never does well when AG gives a talk.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:44 - ID#45173)
Milotrader: Good catch, critical post on Y2K
Expert Witness Statement -- Senate Y2K Committee -- Mr. Eugene F. Maloney

This is an insiders view of the problem with profound implications and suggests interesting investment opportunities in future high-demand investment instruments: cash, silver, and gold.

Eugene F. Maloney offers legal advice to mutual fund managers re Y2K portfolio risk. Options range from liquidating securites to diversifying into less Y2K-sensitive stocks. Problem: there's little reliable information on a company or industry basis on which to base such
decisions -- only 23% of companies polled answered and the answers were ambiguous. This leads the author to make this very important statement:

"Modern Portfolio Theory operates on the premise that everything that is known or
knowable about the price of a publicly-traded security is already fully reflected in its
price. Professional securities analysts are thus largely limited to interpreting information
in the public domain and available to other analysts. This process is just beginning to
take shape, and we detect a growing awareness on the part of the analyst community of
the need to broaden their evaluation of the securities they follow, to include Y2K
preparedness in the context of the ability of a company to continue as a going concern
over the millennium. This will require an adjustment of sorts on their part in that
conventional wisdom holds that the price of a security represents the present discounted
value of its future earnings."

He concludes by suggesting that fund managers can't know the extent or timeframe of risks so cover your ass and document that you are responsibly assessing the risks as much as humanly possible.

I suspect that early next year, the market will begin to discount for Y2K as it did for the so-called Global Market Meltdown in August. The market appears to discount for the worst case scenario.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:55 - ID#45173)
In other words, it ain't just gold bugs who are worrying about Y2K
Fund managers are now preparing to see their world turn upside down in 1999. The premise of modern portfolio theory will be put to the test.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:55 - ID#153102)
It is undeniably obvious in my view that people with a direct economic interest in confiscatory, lifestle dictating regulatory or bureaucratic government control the political process in the USA. The government services crowd of both parties.

Why should full time government workers have a vote in electing the people who vote their salaries ? Why should people who receive government grants have a vote in electing the people who vote their grants ? Why should people who benefit financially from land use decisions have a vote in electing the people who will make the land use regulations ? Why should a Union, the attorney's bar group, which is beholden to one branch of government, the Judges, as officers of the court be allowed to serve in the other two branches, subverting the separation of powers by voting themselves yet more power in the branch they exclusively control ? There is no sense or reason to it.

And throughout all, of course, is the deficit spending of fiat in Washington that fuels the layers and layers of legal theivery in the states which goes by the name of government.

We are governed by corporations, being ourselves artificial persons by reason of the legal process being used to pressure us to adopt that status by applying for licenses. So, the master wants not good government for the servants, but more service from them. This is the ethos of Corporate Socialism, locally or globally.

The final crisis of socialist government is a financial crisis. In due, but painfully slow course, it is coming. Prepare for a bad ending to a bad situation.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:56 - ID#350358)
Thank for your most eligent commentary.

This helps me understand the "calm" I've seen with a couple of CPA type friends.

Although one of them is now sending me the good news he finds on Y2K, *come to think of it, I haven't heard from him in awhile*.

These guys have had an easy road with alot of people for quite a while, and it has built an arrogance I find particularly annoying.


(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:57 - ID#284255)
I can't see anything wrong with Kero heaters.
They also make Kero fridges as well.
And Kero has a good shelf life.

Just one of the many options.

Sorry, no url on the Galaxy five rumour.
It's doing the rounds on the email forums.

It would make one wonder if this sat was the only one to fall prey to the Leonids?

If another sat was to go down and not Galaxy 5 then one could call it another web hoax.

Who really knows and is telling?

Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers

Don't wait for the rush.
You may miss out.
Personally I'd rather do my own shopping - much much cheaper.
But not for a great deal longer.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:59 - ID#413109)
Smiling? That goes for Gold and another good call Platinum.
Being a contrarian, and using one's judgement sometimes bears fruit.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 10:59 - ID#43185)
NEM now moving up strongly

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:04 - ID#284255)
Want an eyeopener?

Go and read all the statements dated 28-Oct-98 ( note the 2 digit date format ) ( :- ) ) )

All are very revealing - some downright spooky.

I've printed out well over 1/2 of them and pass them around to the Pollyannas. ^o-o^

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:07 - ID#343259)
@Milo Trdr re CPA arrogance
Yep, I agree. They don't ask "What's your sign?', but "What's your methodology?'. The coolness, the calmness. The only good thing is that most people don't care about CPA's so the green-eyshade stereotype provides plenty of humble-pie to be eaten.

-CompGeek CPA

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:09 - ID#339274)
FWIW Bonds couldn't close the gap 5.13 and 5.18.Dec 128
was enough of a ceiling,everything points downwards,great for gold.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:09 - ID#252150)
Nortel@Completes successfull Y2K compliance test:
Saddam won't be able to rest easy:

Nortel Networks has successfully completed a comprehensive Year 2000 compliance test for the Nortel Networks' Meridian SL-100 multimedia communications system at the White Sands missile range in New Mexico. The test, which consisted of live rollovers for seven critical Year 2000 transition dates, took place early on Oct. 18. During the simulation, the missile range's Meridian SL-100 was rolled through Year 2000 dates as live voice and data transmissions through the switch were occurring. Invited guests and news media were encouraged to participate by using the Missile Range's phones and computers at the precise moment of the date transition. All date transitions occurred smoothly, with no disruption in service, lost calls or transmission errors. The Meridian SL-100 is Nortel Networks' single-system solution to multimedia communications in large commercial enterprises and government environments. As one of the largest, fully digital communications systems in use today, Meridian SL-100 provides enhanced communications for organizations with single location, multilocation, or multitenant requirements. It can support voice and data applications by allowing simultaneous voice, data, text, and graphics distribution over standard twisted-pair telephone wiring. Taking a proactive position on the Year 2000 compliance issue, White Sands missile range also tested, patched, upgraded and certified 6,500 individual computers. In addition, more than 18,000 computer software components have been catalogued for Year 2000 compliance. Nortel Networks has determined that Meridian SL-100 systems are Year 2000 compliant if they are on software release MSL07 or a later release. The Year 2000 compliance status of Nortel Networks' products is available on Nortel Networks' web-site at, or by calling 1-800 4NORTEL. Nortel Networks customers are encouraged to review their systems and to call their Nortel Networks distributor or account representative regarding any questions concerning the Year 2000 compliance of their Nortel Networks products.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:11 - ID#31868)
I have just now lit another candle for those folks in Central America that have been
ravaged by the hurricane...we give the thieves at the IMF billions while it is these people that truly need our help...

got compassion...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:17 - ID#194311)
Many more worthy flames than our Western bankers have gone out in this horrible tragedy.
First Asia with severe drought, fire and floods coupled with currency collapse now Latin America....seems all roads lead to "Rome". ( US ) .

MANAGUA, Nov 5 ( AFP ) - Reduced to a tropical storm, Hurricane
Mitch headed for western Florida Thursday, leaving behind Central
America to cope with the grisly aftermath of the worst storm in its
history and an alarming body count.
Across Central America and in southern Mexico, 10,001 people
were dead, 14,202 were missing and 2.78 million were homeless,
according to official figures.
Rescue crews continued pulling hundreds of bodies from the muck
on the south flank of the Casitas volcano in northern Nicaragua,
where a massive mudslide buried several towns and villages.
Pigs, dogs and predators prowled through the mud, eating bits of
exposed rotting flesh as workers battled shifting ground to remove
victims, police spokeswoman Gloria Aguirre said.
Hampered by still more heavy rain, rescue workers on Wednesday
removed another 769 bodies of people who had been buried alive,
bringing Mitch's death toll in this country to 2,569, officials

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:18 - ID#339274)
FWIW NEM sitting at the portal of a runaway,Breaking out
24 and closing today we will see 300 gold in a short order.
What did they say selling to soon?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:18 - ID#284255)
Swing chart is right on time.
The crossover a few days ago was the signal.

Now how low do we go?

Will the coming downturn on the oscillator be as violent as the upswing?

We have only just begun the begining of the downswing.
This selling wave should last for a while.

A few bears coming out today.
A few more the following day and so on.
Many will be wanting to take profits and not to be caught at this top.

My feelings are that Time & Price will get rather volatile.

Watchout. ^o-o^

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:19 - ID#242325)
If gold and gold stocks do well today when AG is speaking, that will be an historic first.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:19 - ID#252150)
Abbey Cohen@Just on CNBC & won't change any of her yr end numbers
Still calling for 9300 Dow. I can't understand why she thinks that the U.S. is totally immune to the global financial turmoil. How many fools does she think are out there?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:20 - ID#333127)
I don't believe it,gold and gold stks up,dow down and AG to speak???

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:21 - ID#45173)
If this doesn't throw cold water on the DOW, nothing will
``I think this testifies to the fact that the deceleration in the economy is well under way at this juncture,'' said Richard Berner, chief economist at Mellon Bank.

Slower U.S. hiring in Oct linked to profit worries

By Scott Gerlach

NEW YORK, Nov 5 ( Reuters ) - Shrinking profit margins and expectations for slower economic activity led U.S. firms to hire fewer workers in October than economists had expected, suggesting the labor market has begun to cool, analysts said.

In a surprise early release, the Labor Department on Thursday reported U.S. payrolls grew by 116,000 last month after an upwardly revised gain of 157,000 in September. Economists polled by Reuters had, on average, projected a 178,000-worker increase.

``I think this testifies to the fact that the deceleration in the economy is well under way at this juncture,'' said Richard Berner, chief economist at Mellon Bank.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:27 - ID#252150)
Panda@Thanks for Nas advice. I think I'll stick with SPY
& avoid it altogether. Although AMZN is going to eventually collapse, it is an extremely dangerous short & will probably inflict a lot more pain on speculators caught in short squeezes.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:28 - ID#339274)
FWIW fulfilled first target 82

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:30 - ID#284255)
Put buyers friends
Worth a look on daily charts?

Put the moving average on, bottom left hand corner. ^o-o^

VIX.X putting in a bottom?
$TICK showing the wave oscillation rolling over to begin the downthrust?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:33 - ID#284255)
Now why is this so???
ABC News election-eve Net 'mistake' accurately predicted most close races
By Adam Clayton Powell III
World Center


It did not happen, but just imagine if it had:

The night before Fox television aired the World Series, the Fox Web site posts a complete set of inning-by-inning box scores for the upcoming Yankees-Padres games. After leaving the results online for a while, Fox pulls them down and says it was all a big mistake.

Then the Yanks and the Padres play the Series, and nearly 90% of the innings show the same scoring as in the "mistake" posting.

Sports fans, reporters and bookies would all cry foul, right?

Now consider what happened this week:

On Monday night, ABC News accidentally posted complete state-by-state election results on its Web site, hours before any votes were cast yesterday. ABC withdrew the numbers by mid-evening Monday, saying they were all a mistake and a test of their systems.

"It wasn't our finest hour," Michelle Bergman, manager of communications for, told the Associated Press yesterday.

And, indeed, in the days before each national election, the major national news organizations hold "rehearsals" for reporting election night, using "dummy" numbers.

Or maybe ...

With almost all election districts reporting, those "phony" ABC News test numbers on Monday accurately matched the outcomes of the Senate and governor races in 61 of the 70 contests  87%. It would be difficult to find a political analyst, pundit or bookie who even came close.

In some of the most closely watched contests, ABC News election eve "test" numbers matched the final vote count almost precisely  within one percentage point.

In the Florida governor's race, Jeb Bush beat Buddy MacKay by 55% to 45%  the exact final result rehearsed by ABC News on Monday. In Texas, Jeb's brother George won by 69% to Mauro's 30%  the very result used in the ABC rehearsal on Monday.

ABC News rehearsal numbers also matched the exact final results, to within one percentage point, of the governors' races in Alabama, Colorado, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

All told, ABC's "error" had the correct candidates winning the governors mansions in 32 of 36 elections yesterday. The only gubernatorial contests where ABC had the wrong candidate winning were in Hawaii, Iowa, New Mexico and Minnesota, where few predicted Reform Party candidate Jesse Ventura would be the new governor.

In the Senate elections, ABC's test numbers matched the winners in 29 of 34 contests, including all of the major races. ABC on Monday had posted "WIN" indicators next to Boxer, Schumer, Fitzgerald, Murray and Hollings, all of whom won close races in California, New York, Illinois, Washington and South Carolina, respectively.

ABC also had the correct result in Wisconsin. The final vote totals this afternoon showed Russ Feingold narrowly won reelection by 38,410 votes. On Monday, ABC's rehearsal numbers showed Feingold winning reelection by a margin of 39,000 votes.

But ABC is not claiming these numbers were the result of any new forecasting models or special analysis.

"It was completely random," Bergman told free! this afternoon.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:36 - ID#284255)
Snipped from the web - Only in the USA
The People of Florida just dropped the noose of slavery around their own necks when they approved constitutional amendment 12.

It says, in part,
( Art.V Section 1 ) It is followed by Section 2 which reads as follows,

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:37 - ID#350358)
CompGeek Yep, It was unfair ...
Appologies extended for the blanket stereotype statement.
I'm working on that....

The attitude comes from being in the computer industry for quite some time, and having some rudimentary understanding of how much work fixing some of the spagetti code from years gone by can be not to mention the things that use single chip processors out there grinding away with the assembly code having been written by a wiz no one understood and is not around anymore. The friends I speak of *not sure if both are CPA's but it doesn't matter, they both make their living advising people how to invest their assetts*, but have only enjoyed the *wonders* of the market, and advance of technology of the last decade. They no longer want to know about things like this as it would suggest 'timing the market' They are somewhat blinded about the amount of REAL effort that will be required to navigate the date change, and for most of this year considered anyone who brought up the Y2K subject as a radical doomsdayer.

Who knows, they both may still be right?

It just frustrated me to no end that they had so little information on the subject, and so much blind faith.

Please accept my appology for the blanket statement.


(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:47 - ID#45173)
Thanks for the link.

Just had a talk with a friend at work. He asked whether it made sense to put some cash aside for Y2K, just in case. Told him that US Banks have on average $1.17 of cash on hand for every $100 of deposits. The Fed is printing up a boatload of new cash to handle new demand. Let's say they somehow increased cash on hand by an impossible factor of four. Still means that if everyone went to the local bank to take out there money at the same time, out of all the folks in my friend's neighborhood only a one or two would come back with their money. More likely they'd be limited to withdrawls of a few hundred dollars.

He decided to go to the bank today.


(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:49 - ID#213265)
@the scene
sharefin -- With results like that, why bother wasting time going to the polls!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 11:54 - ID#284255)
EJ - it has already begun
G North agrees too.
Well worth a read.

By his figures there's only a bit over $2000 per household???

Gartner Group Says No Big Problem

[The average U.S. household makes $37,000 a year. Two week's pay is $1,400. There are 100 million households. That's $140 billion in currency. The banks have about $44 billion in reserve now, plus the $150 billion, plus the promised $50 billion, if the runs don't start early. The banks could meet this demand, but only if everyone is calm and people don't say, "I want my money. All of it. Now." Why would people be calm during a bank run? The reason why a bank run begins is that people are scared.]

Same with gold coin sales.
Same with Y2k.
The herd is moving - just starting.

And the markets as well. ^o-o^

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:02 - ID#287279)
Bart or anyone.
How can I search this forum by name?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:02 - ID#284255)
Could have gone fishing for the day - much more fun.
Best they change their service to being a bookie.

It was a very strange occurance right from the start.
And it seems like there has been a few occurances like this before.

Information leaked out onto the net and then retracted.
Articles on Y2k & martial law.
Articles on Y2k & GPS systems
Articles on Y2k & chips and cars
Articles on SETI reports

I should change my name to Echalon or Suspicious.

What next? Galaxy 5???

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:08 - ID#284255)
Gartners Spring Symposium

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:13 - ID#287279)
James, your 11:19
Abbey is right.
9300 by years end sounds OK.
Markets will be OK till February/March 1999.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:14 - ID#271125)
sharefin your 11:04
I have just finished reading the first 10 docs..I am now truly worried and it is crystal clear the implications for the financial world. But with Healthcare clearly intending to utilize triage to cope with patients and equipment failures! What a damn mess.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:16 - ID#34191)
Better check your bank account agreement. My bank says they can make you
wait a week to make a withdrawal, and that is with no panic, no bank closing, no nothin'. That seven days will give the government time to make executive orders limiting withdrawals, declare martial law, or what ever. Don't wait. Get some money out now.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:24 - ID#31868)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...I think you could alleviate some of the hassle
by wiring your money to someone selling gold and silver coins...the problem is with cash...not electronic transfer...slowly accumulate cash also coins...pennies, nickels, etc...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:26 - ID#284255)
Here's the rumour

Meteor shower's nice, but not to satellites

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:26 - ID#194311)
Japan deflating nicely...lower wages and spending.
Thursday November 5 9:51 AM EDT

Spending Declines in Japan

TOKYO ( AP ) - Japan's average spending per household fell for the 11th consecutive month in September, extending a record
slump amid the country's worst recession since World War II, the government said Thursday.

Household expenditures in September shrank an inflation-adjusted 1.5 percent from the previous month to an average of 308,841
yen, or $2,622.19, the Management and Coordination Agency said.

The streak of declines is the longest since the agency began compiling household spending statistics in 1963.

The percentage of disposable income that went into household spending climbed to 70.9 percent in September from 68.5 percent in
August on a seasonally adjusted basis, not accounting for inflation, it said.

Also Thursday, 17 of Japan's biggest electronics makers, including Hitachi Ltd ( NYSE:HIT - news ) . and Toshiba Corp., said they
plan to cut semi-annual bonus payments for employees by the largest year-on-year amount since 1969, Kyodo News agency

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:28 - ID#43185)

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:29 - ID#194311)
Greenspans going to town!
Bashing banks for sloppy lending, moral hazards of bailouts, CB's should end Debt. guarantees to stop excessive leverage.... hedge funds will NOT be bailed-out in future.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:30 - ID#371229)
Sharefin, EJ, cowgirl-- A suggestion or 2
About bank withdrawals. We have a year or better. Just do not accummulate cash in banks.
Also for those in the US, just fill out your W2 form for 99 as married w/ 9 dependents and hold onto all that IRS money for the year. Don't spend it & if it turns out there is an IRS Y2K compliant enough to collect, great then pay it back, if not........

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:31 - ID#284255)
With what I read, it doesn't make me wonder, if I'm paranoid.

And I doubt that we've heard 5% of the truth as yet.

I've just got to hurry up and sell my home so I can get physical.
And grub, guns and generators.

Time is of the essence.
Gold is insurance

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:31 - ID#43185)
A lot of people don't like rattlesnakes

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:45 - ID#354172)

Looks like the XAU has run out of gas at 82.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:49 - ID#284255)
Now's the time to buy the cheap bargains that will become expensive next year.
There are so many very cheap goods that will rise in cost when the herd moves next year.
Garage sales and secondhand goods can be bought for peanuts.
Those batteries I got for $50 would be worth $2000 - $3000 new.
Many food lines are cheap as.
Helen came home from shopping with large bottles of pasta sauce at $1 each. We'll be back tomorrow for a case.

It's a good way to get money out of the bank with a check.

Same with gold.
Your bank manager might not want to let you have $30,000 out of your account.
But he can't argue if you pay for $30,000 worth of gold by a check and it's presented to him.

Loopholes are everywhere.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:51 - ID#28994)
The 11.09 post of James.
Nortel successfully does Y2k compliance test.
Bad news eh.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:51 - ID#194311)
Ain't over yet Goldy
Thin volume.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:54 - ID#410194)
Metals analysis
More interesting point of views about the metals in this morning's analysis at "Hightower Report":

"GOLD: Reports that Japan is seeing what Reuters is terming a gold rush evidently had little impact on the Tokyo gold market last night as it barely failed to move spot gold away from support and dealers there are suggesting that the rally has significant resistance. The reporters suggested that the current buying is similar to the post earthquake buying in 1995. Evidently the severe financial conditions, violent currency fluctuations make Japanese concerned about what instruments will hold value. To areas of the world Japan and Russia ( coinage to shore up rubble ) are showing that gold can serve as a calming agent but it would appear that either commercial selling interest, central bank selling threats or just an extreme lack of other investment interest in gold continues to limit gains. Throughout history a number of the conditions we have seen in the last 10 months would have caused gold to explode but now that it appears the crisis passing gold is getting a delayed reaction. Again the current events don't spark an instant rally but they really take out the downside. Short puts become a repetitive undertaking if the market breaks sharply."

"SILVER: Maybe the Silver institutes forecast of increased use over the next 5 years cushioned the selling in silver but without news of increased Indian buying the threat of of Russian sales keeps the market heavy. We also might have missed the main silver demand period of India without seeing the world market take notice wich has to mean demand was average or worse. A nice reversal but gap reversal just under $5 is significant."

"PLATINUM: While the news from Japan is encouraging the slump in the Yen isn't and unless the platinum can follow up the stop loss buying by the funds with something more sustainable the 350 mark looks very formidable."

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:58 - ID#244418)
Mainframe Programmer Hamasaki's Latest Y2K Weather Report
"It is the end of Charlotte's web and the beginning of a downward spiral in population, technology and business ( I will expand on this in the next article ) . There is _nothing_ we can do to avert this problem. We might have been able to fix the computer problem if we had ignored the pollyannas and started on a massive, co-ordinated effort five years ago. We might have fixed the economic problem if we had ignored the bulls and taken the necessary economic steps five years ago. But we did neither, and now they are both combining, feeding on each other, to give us the biggest, deepest, disaster in human history ( with the possible exception of Noah's flood ) . "

(Thu Nov 05 1998 12:59 - ID#333126)
Alan Greenspan's Nov 5th speech - transcript

gold standard? next crisis? hmmmm....

(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:02 - ID#333126)
T-bonds headed downwards
dang. shoulda bought more puts this mornin'.


(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:02 - ID#25295)
gold moved NEM did not even flinch.

Mike Stewart
(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:09 - ID#270253)
Buddy can you spare a dime?
Royal Oak announced yesterday that it was paying contractors with shares. These guys just keep on printing it!!! This time 7 million shares will settle $8 million Canadian in accounts payable. This should help beat down the shares for the rest of the year. Who will want to hold that paper. They know Peggy and how she operates. RYO is trading at .97 in Toronto today. The contactors have already lost .16 per share.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:13 - ID#266105)
skinny/bad news

Kind of like if the news came that the sun had melted
their comet before the Hale Boppers had the chance to realize
their investment.

Mike Stewart
(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:13 - ID#270253)
South Africans are flat
This rally in gold shares is not spreading to the South African issues. Gold is still below the 220 day MA. I am not sure about this move.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:20 - ID#333126)
anyone: predictions on Friday's employment numbers?
what do you think those figures will be? how will this affect the equity/bond/currency markets?

change is a'happening. coming soon to a neighbourhood near you.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:20 - ID#333126)
anyone: predictions on Friday's employment numbers?
what do you think those figures will be? how will this affect the equity/bond/currency markets?

change is a'happening. coming soon to a neighbourhood near you.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:23 - ID#271125)
what is the 200/220 moving average now?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:27 - ID#280215)
APH - Silver
Where do you see upper resistance in this little up-spike, before resuming down to your 4.40 ish number? Currently, Dec SI at 5.04.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:28 - ID#423380)
@Watching the POG on the tube--She's moving up and down like a a..
Well you know what I mean.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:33 - ID#339274)
FWIW priceaction indicates XAU going to 85.
Bonds are getting mauled

(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:44 - ID#284255)
I would certainly hope we hear some good news amongst the bad reports.

After all we're on the edge of the bell curve where lots of groups should over the next 6 months be starting to call in compliancy.

What I don't trust is the US Gov't to call honest grades.
Look where the DOD is.
And the last test they did a month or so passed in flying colours too.
Strange when lots are having major problems.
That the DOD who is rated a "D" gets the gold.

I'd expect no more from this Gov't.
And it's basically the same with the GPS system.
Much is behind closed doors
And only what they want publisised is what they release.

I guess it's just another political ploy.
The US certainly doesn't want to admit to any hostile country that their missiles don't work.

Think about it.
And remember I don't write the articles.
I just post what others have written.

Go and read those 25 odd articles put out by the Senate.
And read this one on what they have just claimed to have achieved.

Find the balance and understand the spin that's going on with Y2k.
And remember that we're now entering the phase of the bell curve where the rate of compliancy should be starting to accelerate.

Yet how many are coming out and saying they're compliant - precious few.

I personally wish Y2k was never going to happen.
But I can't stop it.
I can however become aware and help to spread awareness.

One good article amongst all the bad news out there is not heartening.

We should be hearing of 10% of major groups claiming compliancy now if we want that bell curve to come in on time.

Don't bite the postman - he's only doing his job.

It's up to you to read the mail.^o-o^

Mike Stewart
(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:47 - ID#270253)
The 220 day MA is at 294.49 and rising ( I often use 220 days because it seems to work better ) . The 200 Day on Toronto Golds is at 6346. The McClellan Summation Index on Toronto mining issues is breaking out to the upside. Debeers is healthy ( a requirement for South Africans ) .

All I want to see is some strength in the price of gold and the Johannesburg gold index.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 13:54 - ID#333127)
Sold out at 24and 1/4

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:02 - ID#194311)
AG...rattling cages...
writings on the wall.

-gold standard did good by international trade pre-Fed Res.

-leveraged excesses unlike anything this century

-silver linings

-available delay due to rate cut will promote inaction causing next phase to be order of magnitude worse


(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:02 - ID#433172)
I glad y2k is in the works. I'll be rolling on the floor when the DOW implodes. I think these events hold more promise for good than they do evil. Maybe we are shown the "way" not from the "light" but from the "dark", a lot of learning takes place with adversity one way or another. Wheres the entertainment without the danger?

y2k will help to define us.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:02 - ID#271125)
Mike Stewart..thanks
Both spot and futures making an effort today ..with luck a couple of big funds will buy some insurance this month and we'll see it through 305. Speaking of Cdn's the Barrick news release looked great..
9mo results

Barrick Gold Corp ABX
Shares issued 375,927,171 Nov 4 close $33.30
Thu 5 Nov 98 Company Review
Mr. Paul Melnuk reviews the company
All figures are in U.S. dollars.
Net income increased to $218-million, 58 cents per share, for the nine
months ended Sept. 30, 1998 from $187-million, 50 cents per share, in the
year earlier period, on revenues of $928-million compared to $936-million.
These strong results reflect Barrick's focus on generating consistent and
sustainable growth in earnings and cash flow per share, regardless of the
price of gold. The company continues to benefit from its excellent
operating performance and the premium earned on its gold sales.
Gold production rose 5 per cent to 2.3 million ounces for the nine months
ended Sept. 30, 1998. Barrick's 1998 production target is 3.1 million
Cash operating costs declined 14 per cent to $160 per ounce in the
nine-month period, compared to $186 in the same period last year. Barrick's
focus on productivity improvements has resulted in lower unit costs at all
operations. Total cash costs, including royalties and production taxes,
declined to $181 per ounce compared to $209 per ounce in the year earlier
Production at the Goldstrike property increased 10 per cent to 1.7 million
ounces, with the Meikle mine producing nearly 700,000 ounces during the
first nine months of 1998. The property should achieve both record
production and cash operating costs for the year, benefiting from a strong
second-half performance from the Betze-Post mine and continued success at
the Meikle mine.
For the nine-month period ended Sept. 30, 1998, the company realized an
average $400 per ounce, a premium of $105 per ounce over the average spot
price of $295, generating $241-million in additional revenue. Barrick has
10.4 million ounces sold forward, including production through the year
2000, at an average price of $400 per ounce. This allows the company to
enhance revenue for its gold production while maintaining full
participation in a rising gold market.
Barrick's balance sheet is the strongest in the gold industry with cash of
more than $400-million, shareholders' equity of $3.5-billion and a debt to
capitalization ratio of 0.12 to 1, at Sept. 30, 1998. Barrick is the only
gold mining company with an "A" credit rating.
Barrick's next low-cost operation, the Pierina mine in Peru, is on budget
and on schedule to begin production later this month. Pierina is expected
to produce 750,000 ounces of gold annually at a total cash cost of $50 per
Production for the first nine months increased 5 per cent to 2,320,895
ounces at an average cash operating cost of $160 per ounce, 14 per cent
lower than the same period of 1997. Total cash costs, including royalties
and production taxes were $181 per ounce a decrease of 13 per cent. All
operations recorded higher production and lower costs over the year earlier
period. In particular, the Meikle mine produced nearly 700,000 ounces of
gold, 20 per cent higher than last year's full year production at 28 per
cent lower costs.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:05 - ID#255226)
Silver resistance 505, 509, 525-530

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:09 - ID#255151)

Current quote--^XAU&d=1d

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:10 - ID#194311)
Setting up nicely....
...for big run up in Tokyo tonight.

Now why did my arby program just freak?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:16 - ID#227238)
I totally endorse your view. Power structures do not reform willingly. It ALWAYS requires an outside agency of greater power to effect the change. The power of coming events will be responsible for a total renewal of perspective. ..... after the intitial dust settles some. Coming out the other side, nothing will be same. And gold will find new luster. IMO.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:19 - ID#194311)
Should be a $305..
before Friday....looks like only 9% believers on Kitco?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:26 - ID#45173)
ravenfire: bummed out over T-Bill puts? Not yet...
U.S. debt futures rebound, T-bonds back up again

Nov 5 - U.S. debt futures rebounded to mostly higher levels again, with
Dec T-bonds bouncing back up from an abrupt slide to fresh day's low at
126-03/32. Brokers said the fall and recovery occurred on size volume in
fast-market conditions. They noted one dealer bought at least 5,000 Dec
T-bonds when it returned above 127-00, another dealer on the breakdown
was seen selling at least 6,000. One floor broker called the 30-yr auction
results "abysmal." Treasury sold 30-yr bond at high yield of 5.300 pct,
1.63 bid/cover, $66.59 mln non-comps.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:29 - ID#339274)
wave 3
FWIW completion of wave 3 is XAU 85 ,November 10 completion
wave 5.XAU 98.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:35 - ID#347457)
@ravenfire (anyone: predictions on Friday's employment numbers?)
ravenfire, no need to make prediction. DOL, already put Friday's numbers on their web page so it was "prematurely" released. Unemployment did not change - the same as the last month. I wonder if premature release was done "by design" to keep markets going. You could see the sudden upturn right after the release.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:38 - ID#339274)
FWIW Bonds looking for new lows, target 124

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:38 - ID#242325)
Sell it Glenn!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:40 - ID#194311)
JEW...NEM flinched up 7%
not bad?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:40 - ID#34459)
Dec 98 AU Contract
Some very nice action in the Dec 98 AU cotract going into the close on very good volumn, this is exactly the action I expected this morning.... All Longs XAU...AU...Vindication is near..

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:45 - ID#286230)
Glad to hear you see nothing wrong with kerosene heaters. However I now have found a problem in actually getting to a place that sells them. Seems with most of Toronto on natural gas for about 40 years there are either no vendors or no advertised vendors. I'll have to go outside of town where I know they are commonly used for power outages--such things only last an hour of less locally. I bet they said the same thing in Montreal until last year.

My condolences to Royal Oak shareholders.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:47 - ID#34459)
December Nymex AU
$294.50 or better close on this will turn the shorts bullish.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:48 - ID#227238)
Old Gold:
Looking at the closing action, I don't think Glenn was selling.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:53 - ID#252150)
Mike Stewart@Have you had a chance to look at BGRs portfolio lately
& if so are you comfortable that they can weather a sustained dowturn. I've been buying it lately @ 2 & under & selling @ 2.60+, but am a little reluctant to get too carried away.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:55 - ID#286224)
Oh Well...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:56 - ID#252150)
God@How I hate MSFT & their illegal operation msgs.
I hope that the Feds emasculate the a**holes.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 14:56 - ID#119358)
@as every dead cat has its bounce..........
so must every ol' dog have its fireplug. ( whizzzzzzzzzz ) GO GOLDBUGS!!!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:00 - ID#286224)
@kiwi 14:19
You want to talk about "should" ?

Try $405...

Try $6,000 for that matter ...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:01 - ID#242325)
Is Glenn the Puetz of the gold market?

Seriously though, this stock bull probably will not last long once gold breaks above $300 decisively and/or bond yields climb above 5.50%. Such action would signal that the street's hope for an endless series of Fed easings is just pie in the sky.

I still have no real clue as to whether POG will take out $300 decisively in this move. But one of these days it will. And that day is not far off.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:01 - ID#300202)
Selby/K. Heaters
Shud be able to pick em up @ Home Hardware or Cdn Tire. Every home in C.B. has one. Just looked in our Maritime Merchant-one ad has two for sale @ 40.00 for both. I like mine but u will need a direct line to a kerosene supplier. Was filling my 5 gal cans continuously. Good for small rooms. I am much more happy with my propane space heater/rented tanks @ 75/yr. Depends what u need if for.


(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:10 - ID#389387)
It seems strange that AG mentioned those two PMs in his speech. While it takes three sentences to describe simple terms such as "volatility". Key phrases such as "silver lining" seem to denote a simple terms which expand to much larger messages. You just have to read between the lines...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:13 - ID#25490)
Know what you mean. I'd like to do an illegal operation on Bill Gates, and the bstards that stole my car last night and drove it down a bank about 80km South of here.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:15 - ID#227238)
Old Gold:
I agree. The XAU is touting higher highs. Presently up 5 at the high of the day .... and liking it. Gold closed at 294.80 and right at the 30 bar ma and will likely pull back a little tomorrow. If it pushes through the 30 and holds it, so much the better. ..... Sorta wish I weren't going hunting next week.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:16 - ID#298259)
Fidelity's gold funds... as of 3pm price...up nicely...
Sel Gold up 4.16%...Pr Metls up 3.84%...sold my NEM at 24 9/16.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:21 - ID#286230)
Thanks. I don't think Can Tire sells them in Toronto May have to go to Peterborough.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:22 - ID#227238)
We be talkin' crime in NZilund??? .... What's the world comin' to? Got guns?? ..... I would really enjoy seeing elastrators introduced into the criminal justice system. They would change the focus of perpetrators, remarkably. ..... Would likely relieve the welfare rolls some too.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:23 - ID#242265)
Watch it go!
I love these late afternoon gold rallies. The XAU is trying to break 85.
Go 4 it!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:24 - ID#287114)
Many of the older mobile homes had nice oil heaters.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:26 - ID#339274)
FWIW plat action got me in and is taking me out.
This was one of the nicest run and we'll see the retracement.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:26 - ID#25490)
Elastrators? Don't know what they are, but they sound painful.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:28 - ID#280215)
Do you have any info on Open Interest as well. Yeserday's $2.10 run up was on decent volume on pretty large falling Open Interest ( short covering, not new buying ) . Any info on what happened today??

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:28 - ID#258142)
Bart, there is no way to post images anymore: no \pub\discussion directory on ftp server. Can it be fixed? It will be a pity to loose posibility to post/see charts and other graphics

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:29 - ID#348129)
Golds are shinning BIG time today. Leading the way for bullion to break the elusive 305.......

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:30 - ID#286224)
Might make it ( XAU:85 ) after all!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:35 - ID#347457)
What Will It Be at Tomorrow's Close?
Well, I was one of the minority in POG poll, caling for close in $255-299 range. It was just a "feeling in my bones" but this time it just may happen ;- )

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:35 - ID#227238)
Only for a moment.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:42 - ID#242325)
Gold stocks pulling back a bit. Possibly some weakness early tomorrow.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:42 - ID#266105)
ah,the irony

aurator ( ) ID#25490:
and the bstards that stole my car last night and
drove it down a bank about 80km South of here.


Dont'tcha just hate living in those high crime neighborhoods.

Gold Dancer
(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:44 - ID#377196)
SA Golds
The SA golds are lagging. Or so it seems. All the action is in the
big caps. But some of these SA golds are far better values by multitudes.
But I guess when Yahoo can sell at $150 and have no earnings it is to
be expected. Hope Hgmcy, Drooy, Rangy etc. break out soon.

They look like they will. Just has not happened yet.

Also check out the article at US Gold Web site:
by Otto Scott enter from Daily Quote Page. Pretty interesting
to say the least.

Thanks, GD

Mike Stewart
(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:50 - ID#270253)
The BGR portfolio is 50% mid cap to large cap and 50% juniors. When the bull market is really here, the public will drive BGR up. It always lags, but when it has momentum, it is unstoppable. I have found that the discount disappears at major tops. You have to sell quickly though, because it won't last long.

BGR is good for those who miss the initial move in the XAU. Remember, it won't really go until the public arrives. The big guys don't need to buy BGR. ( BPT.A in Toronto )

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:51 - ID#222231)


(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:54 - ID#300202)
yeah-a lot of people use oil space heaters here also as most homes heated electrically-therefore oil cheaper to heat basements only. Selby-used to live in Whitby a few years ago. Luv Bobcaygeon ( Peterboro area ) Happy to be gone from the Go Train/Go Plane/Streetcar/Go Bus/Subway system ( and still had 15 mins to walk to work ) .

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:55 - ID#254288)
The XAU is leading to something

I think the XAU is saying the dollar is in for rough time.

As been warned at Kitco for over a year, that foreigners would be selling their US Treasuries. I suspect the foreigners are considering how much they should hold in paper ( native, dollars, or the Euro clones ) .

It won't take much in gold purchases to push the price to fair value, after seeing what is happening with many currencies. I have the feeling that the US government is trying to give the US big boys time to get out of stocks and perhaps buy the bonds in the currency that the foreigners are dumping.

Seen a TV documentary about the various forms of money and they indicated that $400 billion in US notes circulate offshore, just 5% of this buys the equivalent of over 1/4 of the purported US gold hoard. So the potential for an offshore led gold spike is there and some of those dollars may be returning home to their inflationary roots.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 15:56 - ID#222231)
Is there historical evidence of ongoing secret societies that conspire against
their enemies? This 242 page book presents a convincing case that such
societies do exist and date to ancient times. The evidence shows that, in many
cases, they cause damage to others because of their race or religion.

Click Here to Order The CURSE of CANAAN $16.95


Return to Eustace Mullins biography page.

This excerpt relates historical prescriptions against an ethnic group that
Hebrews were Biblically admonished to avoid, whose descendants are reputed
to be still operating in the world today:

"Canaan was so wicked that his last will and testament to his children was a
formula for vice. It read, "Love one another ( that is, of this tribe only ) , love
robbery, love lewdness, hate your masters, and do not speak the truth." This
remarkable document, the Will of Canaan, is to be found in only one place in all
the world's theological literature, the Babylonian Talmud, where it is presented
thusly, "Five things did Canaan charge his sons: love one another, love robbery,
love lewdness, hate your masters, and do not speak the truth." Pes. 113b.

The Will of Canaan has been the Canaanites prescription for all of their
operations during the ensuing three thousand years. Meanwhile, the people of
Shem, knowing nothing of this document, vainly tried to "convert" the
Canaanites, and turn them from their evil ways. If the descendants of Shem had
been warned of the precepts imparted by this document, the history of the last
three thousand years could have been very different. The Will of Canaan today
remains the operating instructions of the Canaanite heirs, who presently
control the World Order. At the same time, it remains unknown to the peoples
whom the Canaanites continue to rob, enslave, and massacre.

The Will of Canaan contains the instructions necessary to resist the results of
the Curse of Canaan, which condemns them to slavery. The instructions to
"hate your masters," that is, Shem and Japheth and their descendants, is a
command to commit genocide against the people of Shem. For this reason, all
subsequent Canaanite rites are based upon these exhortations to struggle and
commit acts
of violence against the people of Shem. It is not only the basis for all of the
revolutions and "liberation movements" since that time, it is also a basic
incitement to commit genocide and to carry on racial wars.

Because of the three-thousand-year historical blackout, the people of Shem
have never understood their peril, and they have frequently been subject to
massacre because their essential goodness made it impossible for them to
believe the vileness of the Canaanites. The Will of Canaan has always been
concealed from them because it is the basic program of conspiracy and secret
rites which enable the Canaanites to wreak their hatred upon the descendants
of Shem.

Much of the continuous hostility between these two forces is mentioned in the
Bible, but never in the basic form which has been stated here for the first time.
In his book, "The Mystery of the Ages," Herbert Armstrong comments,
"Canaanites, who were racially dark, had settled the land;
God commands the Israelites to drive them out" ( p. 172 ) . Armstrong cites
Numbers 33 as the basis for his reference.

During the centuries of oppression and mass murder, God has not stood aside
from His people. On the contrary, He has frequently exhorted them to attack
and to rid themselves of the peril of the Canaanites. In the early years of this
struggle, it was still possible for His children to hear and to obey.

The vision of Obadiah is recounted in Obadiah 20, "And the capacity of this
host of the children of Israel, shall possess that of the Canaanites, even unto
Zarephath; and this capacity of Israel which is in Sepharad, shall possess the
cities of the south." Significantly, the Revised Standard Version omits the
mention of the Canaanites entirely.

The battle continued over a period of centuries. In Joshua 17:13, we read "Yet
it came to pass, when the children of Israel were waxen strong, that they put
the Canaanites to tribute but did not utterly drive them out."

God expressed His will in the strongest terms to His children in Number
33:52-56: 'Ye shall drive out all in habitants of the land [Canaan] before
you...And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for
I have given you the land to possess it...But if ye will not drive out the
inhabitants of the land before you; then it shall come to pass, that those who
ye let remain, of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides,
and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell... .It shall come to pass, that I
shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them.'"

This excerpt reveals a plot spawned by the reputed descendants of Canaan:

"One of the most revolting personalities in the history of
the United States was the chief organizer of Freemasonry,
Albert Pike. Born in Boston, he went to Harvard University
and later moved to Arkansas. He served as a general in the
Confederate Army during the Civil War, after which he
devoted the rest of his life to promoting Freemasonry. He
is credited with having brought the Scottish Rite into promi-
nence in the United States. Significantly, the Scottish Rite
dates all of its official communications with the year of the
Hebrew calendar. Pike maintained worldwide ties with such
noted Masonic revolutionaries as Garibaldi and Mazzini.
They cooperated in establishing four Grand Central Direc-
tories for Freemasonry; the North American branch was
headquartered at Washington, D.C.; the South American
branch was headquartered at Montevideo; the European
branch at Naples; and the Asia and Oceania branch at Cal-
cutta. He and Mazzini were succeeded as heads of world Free-
masonry by Adriano Lemmi. Pike and Lemmi had an
extended disagreement over the name of the God of Masons
which they were to use in their rites; Pike was determined
to call him Lucifer, while Lemmi held out for Satan; they
finally settled on Lucifer. Pike subsequently used the term,
Sublime Pontiff of Lucifer, to describe himself."

Click Here to Order

Return to Eustace Mullins biography page.

Return to Rev. Valladar's Home Page

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:01 - ID#288466)
which has been present since April 98 - in the ECU, DM, and SF.

Current spot gold in these currencies:

ECU 248.82
DM 488.17
SF 401.11

Check it out....very bullish for gold, methinks. How many Euro trend-followers will cover their shorts now, and go long?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:04 - ID#227238)
The XAU is a little over extended and will likely traded sideways to down for a couple. It would be helpful if GC would continue to chug up in the interim. Closed at 83.06. Almost 10 in 2 days. Not too shabby.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:04 - ID#242265)
What happened in the last 1/2 hr? Was that major profit taking by you guys? Or did AG push a button or something?
Any thoughts?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:06 - ID#286230)
Got my sister looking too. Lives near a town called Mildmay. Ever hear of it?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:07 - ID#227238)
Day traders closing longs at the end of the day.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:08 - ID#194311)
Hmmm, just wondering
what are the Japs using to buy those kilo bars?

Japan Postal Savings could be in for a rough time, perhaps the citizens are saying "we don't want our dough to be used to bail out banks"?

I would....why pay taxes when it's going to line the IMF crony's pockets?

A gold standard is a necessary evil to rid a system of corruption, laziness, imprudent excesses ( like environmental destruction ) .

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:10 - ID#227238)
Does anyone have the symbol for the ECU? Either spot or futures - if there is a futures.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:11 - ID#288186)
FWN comments regarding "head and shoulders" pattern...
Futures World News - November 05, 1998 15:25

Gold and silver started out the day only fractionally higher in markets described as unusually quiet, with
many players not in the pit on the morning after an annual gold dinner in New York.

But as the day wore on, both metals accelerated to the upside. Then, in the final minutes, December gold
suddenly shot from around $294 to the day's $296 high, before scaling back to settle with a $3 gain for
the day at $294.80.

One floor trader noted that the gold market had been "completely saturated with sellers" in recent

"So without any fresh selling coming into the market, one of the dealers just bid the market up...Then
once you got over $295, you hit some stops," the floor trader said.

"It was kicked off by what looked like a combination of funds and dealer buying, and then stops getting
hit," he added.

David Meger, analyst with Alaron Trading, noted that after the December futures dipped below $290
earlier this week, a head-and-shoulders pattern bottom formed.

"That brought in a wave of buyers, and we seem to be continuing off those lower levels," he continued.

Sources put resistance around the day's $296 high, which was also the high on Oct. 28. If the market can
break through this, significant resistance can be expected around

Support was put around $291.50 to $292, then $290 to $289, followed by $285, said Meger.

Silver has followed a similar pattern as gold, related Meger. The December futures have been climbing
from their recent low of $4.86 on Tuesday, which was near trendline support.

As in gold, said Meger, "this all started off as technical bounces off lower-end support. The market
seemed to find decent buying in low volume. And when volumes are this low, it doesn't take much fund
or dealer buying to move a market."

December silver was able to get through $5 resistance and settle above this, gaining 10.3 cents for the day
to $5.0450.

He put the next resistance at $5.12, then $5.20 to $5.23. Support was put around $4.92 to $4.93, ahead
of $4.86.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:12 - ID#288186)

COMEX Metal Warehouse Statistics for Nov. 5

Gold 836,648 + 0 troy ounces
Silver 74,500,644 - 69,956 troy ounces
Copper 70,059 - 266 short tons

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:16 - ID#242265)
@Earl re XAU
That's what I figured. Daytraders. But the selloff seemed a little steeper than normal to me. At these levels of retraction you often see last minute buyers step in.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:18 - ID#339274)
volume of the DOW
FWIW volume is steadily dropping for the last 5weeks on the
weekly,since the 4th it has been declining on the daily.
Today the hourly is loosing its steam
With bonds dropping,stocks won't be far behind.
OEX top 560 ,INDU 9000,SnP 1140,Russell 2000 400

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:19 - ID#212197)
Our GSRs are doing fine!
TVX too.

Go Gold! Maybe we see an attack at 300 tomorrow.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:20 - ID#288186)
Regarding the Gold Price Prediction Poll:
I, for one, hope I voted wrong. I optimistically voted with the 13% crowd
who voted in the 295-299.99 price range. In my continuing optimism, I hope that Friday's Gold closing is...............above 300.

I don't mind losing to this poll if the 9% that voted for a Friday close
above 300, wins!! GO GOLD! See ya, BBML Fox-man

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:27 - ID#252150)
Aurator@Sorry to hear about your car. Too bad BG was'nt driving it & it was
a 1000 ft bank onto jagged rocks. Unless, of course, it was an antique or favorite, or you did'nt have good insurance: ) )

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:32 - ID#227238)
Just looking at a few final closes; NEM, ABX - it was a bit more of a haircut than usual but not harmful. May be sideways for a day or two. 15% gain in a couple of days is hard for some to pass up.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:36 - ID#432130)
...I learned to read between Greenspans "lines" quite awhile ago. I knew when he was saying "get out" in July, and I did with a nice profit. Then I made "bear investments", beside my physical gold, which by the way, I bought it at $275.00 an ounce in February ( February? ) . So these minor "manipulations" do not disturb me because I have FAITH based on research, that this Fiat system is doomed VERY SOON ( due to greed & corruption, to say nothing about Y2k ) .

Regarding my "Bear" investments, I read between Greenspans "lines" and realized that He, the G7, and the IMF were going to "pump" it up because it is important to convince the Sheeple that they will survive the "ups and downs". Anyway, I read between Greenspan's "lines" and determined that "Bear" market investing during a time when "They" ( you know, the "They" people who really runs things ) . Greenspan spoke between the lines that the Bear Market is making way for a "Bull Rally". It means that bear investments will lose at the present time. If I had listened to my inner voice, I could have cashed out of BEARX with a $2000.00 profit. As it stands, Greenspan helped me get out with a $69.00 profit ( at least I didnt lose! ) .

I am still in the market with regard to mining stocks and a Gold fund. I have lost money on both of those so far, but I am sure we are all in the same boat regarding that issue.

I guess my point is this: The market is much too volaitle to gamble with unless you are either VERY good at timing the market, or VERY experienced i studying past market performance. I myself am a "Market Timer". Up til now I have called it accurately, but I know the odds are against using that srategy. Which is why I got out while, I was quite ahead.

After things "normalize" ( If that is possible ) , and the market sells at P/E ratios that are in line with true values, Then I will enter the Stock Market again. It will be interesting to see what happens to this "Bull Run" when the Y2k panic hits next year! ( Run on banks, etc. )

go gold, go silver / ( but dont go BEARX )

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:37 - ID#252150)
An incredible opportunity coming up. No matter what AG does on the 12th
the S&P will tank & retrace at least 1/2 of this recent gain. All those MF mgrs who are sitting on big enough gains to save their year are just looking for a reason to pull the trigger. Will be adding to my SPY shorts on every 2% move up from here.

Almost shorted PDG near it's high, but just did'nt quite have the guts. When will I ever learn that that's the time to do it?

Mr. Mick
(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:37 - ID#345321)
FYI Silver information...just heard from mi amigo in Mexico.....
working at the largest producer of silver in Mexico - says that the reason he can't bring me back some bullion bars is because the Japanese are buying everything, lock, stock, and barrel. Every ounce that comes out of the mine goes to Japan.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:42 - ID#33024)
Gold ready to go to 315$

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:46 - ID#277224)
South African Golds
Could the fact that the rally in gold stocks has not extended
to the South African Golds be a delayed reaction and make them
a possible buy or are there other fundamental reasons they have
not, to this point, come along for the ride?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:48 - ID#21275)
What did that mask mouth say?
Did AG say the markets had calmed down but he would lower rates below Japan at the next tremor.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:56 - ID#45173)
Gollum-san: you out there?
I believe discount window borrowing is down for the past few weeks...

U.S. bank borrowings avg $102 mln/day
Nov 4 week

NEW YORK, Nov 5 ( Reuters ) - The Federal Reserve said U.S. bank
discount window borrowings, less extended credits, averaged $102
million per day in the week ended November 4.

Does this suggest that the banks are doing ok? I may be way off. This may be up. I don't recall...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 16:58 - ID#300202)
Just came back in-had to shock my well with bleach. Turnin my res into a B & B & needed a water test-had chloroforms ( non fecal ) . Just had a new well put in & had not tested it since I had it installed. Joys of country living. Nope-never heard of Mildmay. By running bleach thru it-just realized I also have manganese. Have to call to find out how to treat it tomorrow. Methinks around 1300. I'll be buying less physical than I thought. 15 mins gone by-have to run out to put in another litre of bleach.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:04 - ID#258427) do
really nice techical work on the web site...nice site... ( er..could you do it in engrish or merican?? ) ) grin...thanks

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:07 - ID#369352)
XAU Technicals
Just looked at the closing charts on the XAU and they look awsome! There is a Head and shoulders bottom forming on the weekly and a double bottom on the monthly...If the XAU clears 90, we should have liftoff...maybe strong enough to say hello to John Glen! This pattern has shown strength in light of a soft gold rise...last time we hit 85 gold was over $ it is just sitting at $295 ( approx. ) ...this would indicate that we are drawing them in...this run should take us to about 110 if my analysis is correct....GO GOLD, GO XAU!!!!!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:08 - ID#210282)
?Voter Fraud: How did ABC get the vote so closely before the election?
All: I would think the Republicans would be very interested in noting that in California, a write in voter could theoretically vote in virtually all counties at once, according to the Pine Cone ( times? ) of Monterrey. Apparently one can call in for the absentee ballots, with virutally no proof that you are you -- or that who you say you are is actually alive. Apparently the system is the 'honor' system, where checks are made only when the authorities are alerted.

Just how many other states are this easy to fool? And -- remember the padding that went on during the last presidential election where nearly 500,000 individuals had accelerated citizenship papers processed? Complements of Democratic officials. Do you honestly think these lucky individuals who got early citizenship were not influenced to vote Democratic? I still have not heard anything more about this.

So perhaps the Democrats won by a larger margin than expected for another reason. Given the pattern of other highly unethical behavior in the last few years, and the lax enforcement of voter registration, I think this needs investigation as well.

We should start with reviewing the California voting list. Shouldn't be hard to do if the data is computerized.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:08 - ID#45173)
My read on Greenspan
He says that the Fed will not let the economy slide into recession due to lack of corporate debt funding and will not let capital markets implode due to illiquidity. So far his actions and the results are working well. Still, the market, while relieved that the Fed will act and that the Fed's actions seem to work, fears that the economy may slump into recession anyway due to over-capacity and over-indebtedness. You can't reduce over-indebtedness or excess capacity by expanding debt or increasing the money supply.

Contrary to reports, the market did not go up for any reason related to AG's words. It went up for technical reasons. The news today is deflation. The market remains worried that even a slight recession may trigger a debt implosion in a deflationary environment, much like Japan's except much more nasty. Consumer and corporate liabilities will raplidly exceed assets in a deflation. Individuals, and the corporations that employ them, will both go broke with breathtaking speed.

Aragorn III
(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:09 - ID#212323)
Mr. Mick--16:37 Namaste'
*GASP* Shock! You mean the silver ISN'T going to COMEX? Thank you for helping me to make my tired old point. G&P to ya!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:13 - ID#286230)
Don't fret--we are getting a Federal Tax reduction remember: )

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:21 - ID#432130)
...Well said! : )

Gold Dancer
(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:24 - ID#377196)
Second to "Well said".

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:24 - ID#210282)
Gold Fundamentals and the Gold Bug Tsunami
Trader Vic: The last two days have been exhilarating. Any idea what is up? I will feel much more comfortable riding the Gold Bug Tsunami, if I know why it is rising!

The markets are very complex these days, with many intercurrents. Hence we must know what is the underlying cause of this sudden rise in gold equities. It wasn't dropping interest rates in Europe -- not yet anyway. How about a shift from US dollars to EUROs? Anything going on behind the scenes that makes trade in EUROs more attractive than dollars? Special deals? How about rising commodity prices in the US? How about simple anxiety about the rising US markets? Are the pros heading for the exits, and buying gold equities? Trouble in ( big ) China?

How odd this would happen the day of an AG speech -- did I miss something?

Any ideas? Anyone?

Lurker 777
(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:26 - ID#317247)
Then I made "bear investments", beside my physical gold, which by the way, I bought it at $275.00 an ounce in February ( February? ) .

Was the gold Coins,bars, or scrap? The low spot gold in February 1998 was around $291.00 oz. and premiums cost me 4.7% over spot. The lowest I have seen 1 oz. Gold Coins delivered in 19 years was $286 back in August of this year. Maybe I am buying at the wrong place? I am currently looking for 200-300 1 oz. Phillharmonic coins ( or 9999 pure ) and would like to know your source. I appreciate any insight you might have into buying Gold Coins or Bullion products. Thank You!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:28 - ID#219363)
Excerpt from a post I made a few days ago, news I wasn't looking forward to seeing, but mildly expected to see. The equity bulls had better hope for their lives that I'm wrong, I hope I'm wrong.

"What news would get my attention ? Loses in the financials that haven't been disclosed as of yet, selling of treasures by BOJ, spike up in gold to above 315, high volatility in either bonds or the dollar, foreign markets making new lows, serious divergence between silver and gold that leads to an even gold price and rapidly falling silver, and any equity activity that drops us more than two hundred points in one day as we're approaching 8000 on the downside."

Gold Dancer
(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:36 - ID#377196)
More buyers than sellers. No s***. That is it. Sort of kidding,
but I don't think it too helpful to try and figure "everything" out.
It can't be done. KISS. Gold low, stocks high, bonds high, real estate
high, cars high, Clinton's ego and private member too high.

Buy low, And then hold on for dear life. Thru thick and
thin till everyone you know is in love.

Then sell high. Force yourself. If you are not forcing yourself, the
price is too low. Then look back but don't weep.

It will be interesting to see just how many of us ride the gold bull all the way to the top. I am always in early, out early. This time I
was in early but I am going to hold on longer this time. This is the
real thing. The 5th wave on a supercycle for gold. It a gona be good!!

Thanks, GD

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:41 - ID#43349)
1 ) There is expectation of lowering interest rates in various foreign countries. This pulls money out of the US bond market to look for greener pastures.

2 ) The Fed's beige book and remarks by AG as well as other economic figures look like the Fed is no longer under any real pressure to continue to lower rates. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.

3 ) Treasuries are WAY oversold as the result of foreign flight money. Which also is starting to go home as conditions back there improve.

4 ) The weakening dollar gives lower real rates of return for holding dollar denominated securities.

5 ) US bond paper being turned back into cash paper is inherently inflationary.

6 ) The US bond market looks like it's starting to tank for these and other reasons.

7 ) Gold has always moved inversely to bonds ( not stocks ) . Interest rates go up and commodity prices go down because of indlation expectations.

8 ) If the treasury/bond market comes roaring back, gold will tank.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:44 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 30.35. The 233 day moving average is 28.93

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:45 - ID#43349)
Not neccesarily that they are doing well, but rather the liquidity crunch is easing. I dare say it ought to ease with all those treasuries being sold.

Gold Dancer
(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:47 - ID#430221)
From Kaplan today

STOCKS VS. BONDS: In a bull market, stocks and bonds rise together as
investors are encouraged by an improving economy. In the current
financial scenario, bonds rise only when stocks are falling, or stocks
rally while bonds lose ground. This indicates that there is a limited
amount of capital available for investment, and that one sector can gain
only at the expense of another, which is typical of a bear market. The
more that stocks rise as bonds are declining, the greater the incentive
to switch from stocks into bonds. Inevitably this will force an end to
the current bear market rally in U.S. equities. The greater the
disparity before the rally ends, the more severe and sudden will be its
eventual reversal.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:48 - ID#300202)
Selby-don't mention Fed to me as I'm Fed-Up.
As an ex Fed-I get a monthly crazy cheque. Just determined thru a source believed to be reliable that THEY will not be Y2K compliant in terms of automatic/electronic deposit to Banks-unsure yet if they mean the Feds & or Bank. When I called direct THEY gave me- don't worry about it-shudn't be a prob etc. Will call tomorrow for direct mailing to my res-BUT-will I be able to cash it at the appointed time?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:49 - ID#210282)
Uncertainty and gold -- we must be cautious.
Gold Dancer, Envy: If gold is going up because of uncertainty, and potential liquidity crises, then we need to be on our toes. Gold equities will head south in a hurry if we have another episode like Oct 1997. A big time financial collapse somewhere will precipitate another worldwide gold fire sale -- provided that the fire sale occurs in a country that still has gold to dump. Gold is what you sell when you run out of everything else.

On the other hand -- if we have simple uncertainty without any solid crises of any kind -- market fluctuations only -- then gold and gold equities will do very nicely.

I for one will be carefully watching for signs that the gold Bug Tsunami is about to break up. These are deflationary times, not inflationary ones, and predicting the future direction of gold is not easy -- unless the US dollar continues to drop. And even with a dropping US dollar, we could still get chewed up in the chop if we are not careful! Remember Oct 1987!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:54 - ID#350179)
CEAUX-DUTHEIL Stphane (Is this translation close?)
L'or aprs avoir cass  la baisse son canal latral entre 302 et 296$ devait perdre 6$ pour raliser son objectif de baisse. Hier soir ( mardi 03/11 ) l'or  atteint au plus bas 288,7 et  clturer  299,7$. L'or ouvre  New-York  290,5$ ( mercredi 04/11 ) on peut donc considrer que l'or a tabli un point bas hier soir ( non valid en plus par le XAU, graphique 4 ) . Je reste pour ma part encore trs positif sur le devenir de l'or avant la fin de l'anne, l'objectif maintenant de hausse devrait se situer  315-320$, avec comme niveau de rsistance 296-302-306-310$. Je privilgie se scnario, si l'or devait par contre baisser durablement sous 289-290$ alors 280$ serait l'objectif suivant.

Les plus tmeraires d'entre vous peuvent acheter par ordre de priorit RANDFONTEIN, HARMONY et ECHO BAY ( cardiaque s'abstenir ) . Ceux qui le sont moins attendrons une hausse de l'or au dessus de 296$ pour se jeter rapidement sur le compartiment. Vous serez informez par E-Mail si la situation tait amene  voluer.

Half-assed translation:

Gold, after having broken the lower side of its horizontal channel between 302 and 296 would have had to lose 6$ in order to achieve the lower target. Yesterday night ( Tuesday, Nov. 3rd ) Gold fell to 288.70 and closed at 299.70. The New York gold open at 290.50 on Wednesday ( Nov. 4 ) one can consider that gold has established a low point last night ( not validated by the XAU  graph #4 ) . I continue, on my part to be very bullish on the future of gold before the year-end, with an upper target of 315 to 320, with resistance levels at 296-302-306-310. I counter the bullish scenario if gold stays for an extended period below the 289-290 level, in that case 280 is the next target.

The most gutsy shares to buy in prioritized order are RANDFONTEIN, HARMONY and ECHO BAY ( dont have a heart attack ) . These would most benefit by a jump in gold above 296 by jumping rapidly out of the box. You will be informed by email as the situation determines.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:54 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .283. The 233 day moving average is .247

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:57 - ID#341231)
Stephane's posting translation
the new Alta Vista translation feature does a humorous, but understandable job on Stephane C-D, posted

(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:58 - ID#210282)
Thanks -- logical as always
Gollum: Your post make sense. But -- I think you make one minor error. US treasuries by your reasoning ( IMHO ) are overbought, not oversold. The current ( short term? ) improved situation in Japan ( and SEAsia? South America? Europe? ) means that US treasuries are being sold in a big way, and AG has more cash than he knows what to do with.

Logically extending what you have said -- why arn't US interest rates going up more? I thought they would if treasuries were being sold, and US dollars accumulating. Anyone look at M1,M2, M3 recently?

Are you sure you are not a Physicist -- you certainly are logical enough to be one!

Lurker 777
(Thu Nov 05 1998 17:58 - ID#317247)
HELP with buying gold?
Does anyone know where I can buy gold bullion for delivery for under Spot?

gwyz YOU SAID: Then I made "bear investments", beside my physical gold, which by the way, I bought it at $275.00 an ounce in February
( february? ) .

Was the gold Coins, bars, or scrap? The low spot gold in February 1998 was around $291.00 oz. and premiums cost me 4.7% over spot. The lowest I have seen 1 oz. Gold Coins delivered in 19 years was $286 back in August of this year. Maybe I am buying at the wrong place? I am currently looking for 200-300 1 oz. Phillharmonic coins ( or 9999 pure ) and would like to know your source. I appreciate any insight you might have into buying Gold Coins or Bullion products.
Thank You!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:03 - ID#119358)
I don't think we should anticipate successful access to the aforementioned source of $275. gold, my friend. We've been buying as cheap as anyone, with the possible exception of the rothschilds. salud!!! ( and.....I still admire your brilliant hedging program, but I choose to remain naked as a jaybird ) ;^ ) ~ G&P

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:09 - ID#410194)
Educational reality check!
*** A dramatic and extremely profitable call. Look at the time frame and price levels! ***

S&P on October 14th: 995
S&P today: 1041 ( !!! )

Dow Jones on October 14th: 7960
Dow Jones today: 8915 ( !!! )

Date: Wed Oct 14 1998 19:43
Mike Sheller ( ) ID#348257:
EVERYONE is warning of DEFLATION. Worried. Aggravated. Panicked. That is the sign of a BOTTOM. S&P options running over 2-1 puts. Do you really think all those bond bulls and put buyers are going to be RIGHT. WRONNNNNG.

Dow 8400 in two weeks.

Then next stop - 8900-9000.

Yes...I am equally amazed.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:10 - ID#26793)
TVX news

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:12 - ID#227238)
Sheller missed that call by 500 DOW points. Will he never get it right? ... LOL.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:12 - ID#411259)
..... I'll Race you to the Pool ....

That pop up in gold at the end was because of producer buy backs. They sold it at 300 and 303, now they are taking profits at 290. If they can keep this up, they won't even have to produce a single ozer-o-gold. Producers are traders too.

The recent rise in the Aussie dollar and the SA rand have made these buy backs attractive. Beware, they will cap off any rally above 300 with fresh selling. At the risk of repeating myself ( which has never stopped me before ) , gold has little chance sustaining above 300 for the rest of this year.

Good news for gold in continuing increased demand in the US, Asia, and Europe. OLD GOLD has always maintained that, in addition to a weaker equity market, it is the individual investor who must enter this market before any substantial rise can take hold. I believe the current increase in demand is just the tip of the iceberg. 1999 should bring a wave of gold buying not witnessed since the American Eagle was introduced in 1986.

Platinum is firming up, but I still worry they will whack it back down. The metal has got to rise sometime ( it always does ) but the TOCOM shenanigans continue. The market has an enormous ( for platinum ) amount of shorts hanging over it which will cover at 328 or prior to the first delivery notice of the January contract. There is not much enthusiasm to hold short positions at record lows and a looming supply disruption.

Look for the Russians to announce that everything is A-OK and shipments will continue into 1999 with no delays. That will knock the price down a bit, so they can buy it back up cheap. Then there will be another announcement to follow, explaining that there may be delays and, Zoooooom, right back up. I can't recall a time when 340 was not a good buy.

My 4.80s silver is happy. Still nothing to pin my optimism on, but silver feels strong. Obvious resistance near 5.20 and 5.40, but I am looking for it to hold above $5 for awhile.

Regarding the elections:

Impeachment is no longer an option, they will cut a deal with the Pres and move on. I may be rightly called an Anti-Clintonite and would dearly love to see the man fall, but I now believe the polls. Plenty of people are rightly condemning the Pres, but America as a whole has said it does not care. Please, no arguments about how small the amount of votes cast in relation to the population. Best I can figure is that less than 10% of Americans actually voted for Clinton. But the consistent polls, telling us all the people just don't care about the scandal, have been supported at the ballot box. This is reality, like it or not. Wishing it wasn't so will not change this reality . I too thought these polls were skewed, but the Republicans would be unwise indeey to not take notice. Newt is gone, his time is over.

Regarding all the race and religion talk lately:

This has been debated to death, yes?

The tone of recent posts has made me uneasy, and a tad embarrassed for the site. Rather than concentrate on the differences, why doesn't everybody just go screw ( or "know" in the biblical sense ) someone of a different race and religion? In a few dozen generations, all humans will be a wonderful golden brown, silky dark hair, almond eyes, and all the best that cross breeding brings out in a species. I am a great proponent of racial impurity. Let's expand the gene pool; all this inbreeding has narrowed our potential and given lots of folks bad teeth. Just look at the Brits if you want to see what generations of inbreeding will bring.

So while you all argue about views that are as personal and inviolate as any we hold I will be expanding the gene pool. Perhaps Japanese Or maybe one of those Brazilian Beauties. I will be leaving for Jamaica in a week and a half, and the photos of those chocolate honeys with their long strait hair and lithe bodies have captured my imagination.

Screw race ( quite literally ) , who needs it?

I don't



Did anyone catch that History of US Money special on the History channel last night? Phil Diehl from the US Mint was interviewed in depth. It was cool to see the wide variety of currency and coin the US has produced.


(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:15 - ID#26793)
Russia stiffs Canada for $1.5 billion.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:16 - ID#31868)
so my mochine commited computercide at the same time my backup disc took its
life...aghhhhhhh!!!...those of you that email me if you would please send me some email so I can redo my entire address book...Namaste' gulp and a puff to all...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:18 - ID#411259)
..... Indeedy .....

I have always had faith in Sheller's TA. ( NOT his bosoms and posterior ) .

While I have my differences in methodology, one cannot argue with success, no?

Sevens -

You are thinking too much.


(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:19 - ID#277302)
The Running of the Bull
It's nice to see the Aussie Gold producers
Monetizing their hedges, but
That only translates to unleashing
The Golden Bull into a white,
Picket-fence enclosed field
To tippy-toe through the golden tulips;

Let the rest of the heavily-hedged matadors
Cash in some of their hedges
Show this Bull the red side of the cape
Entice him to charge and break through
This flimsy fence that contains
His brute power;

Enrage the Bull to charge into the cheering,
Exhilerated, running masses of goldbugs
And goldshorts alike
Let him gore and trample upon the hides
Of the panic-stricken short-sellers
That enslaved, teased and tormented him
For so long;
It's high time for the running
Of the Golden Bull...let him loose.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:19 - ID#26793)
If your lime tree gets sick I will send you enough for a full week of Cuba Libres if gold does not break $300 before March 1st.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:23 - ID#411259)
..... Chrisophilos .....

Way cool words

Welcome to Kitco


Lurker 777
(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:23 - ID#317247)
You my friend, have a heart of gold and balls of steel. My brilliant hedging program is so I can sleep at night. I shall never see the premiums paid for the PUTS but it lets me purchase with both hands.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:23 - ID#43349)
Oh yes, I meant to day overbought:

Interest rates ARE up. Drastically in the last couple of days. If the run on treasuries/bonds continues to hold up rates the Fed will have to step in or risk having the slowdown become too slow. Perhaps they will start buying back treasuries big time to "stabilize" the market.

Well, we applied philosophers aren't all that much removed from physicists. Sorta like physicists with a Zen attitude.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:26 - ID#271125)
RJ..Swimming is good for the Soul/Sole/Saul of mankind, within the
have read it ..I too agree with your summation

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:28 - ID#271125)
read it ..have not seen it.."river flowing out of eden"

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:29 - ID#411259)
.... Donald .....

Thanky for the lime offer
But I think gold will rise above $340 by March.
285, maybe 280, one more time this year.....
Then we are off to the races.
( Ooops.... more talk of race! )
Can you still send the limes
Since I am calling for gold to rise?
After all, they do call me


Lurker 777
(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:32 - ID#317247)
I know and you know but how do we know if they know something worth knowing? NOT! Yes?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:34 - ID#347235)
Profit- taking tomorrow
If you are trading gold and/or the xau, look for profit taking tomorrow with the xau down between 1.5 an d 2.00 at the close. The rally should resume Monday or Tuesday.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:36 - ID#210282)
Gollum -- Thanks! Logging off -- very busy these days.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:37 - ID#43349)
Funny how the "accidental" releasing of bullish data came BEFORE
the auction deadline and the more bearish stuff came AFTER...

Aragorn III
(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:42 - ID#212323)
Gollum --18:37
Ummm, excuse me, but... you really shouldn't be peaking behind that curtain, there.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:45 - ID#43349)
@Aragorn III
I know, but there are so MANY curtains it's hard to keep ones eyes averted ALL the time.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:49 - ID#277302)
Thanks RJ for the kind words...
and the welcome mat, but I've been here for a while, mostly lurking mind you and soaking up the wisdom of the 300 or so brave Spartans on this forum ( yourself included of course ) who continue to fight back the hoards of the unbelieves at the the narrows of the Golden Thermopylae.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:50 - ID#43349)
Bear market rally?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:53 - ID#341226)
@CHASABAR...who are you kidding?
Date: Thu Nov 05 1998 02:48
ChasAbar ( The agony of it all ) ID#340383:
Copyright  1998 ChasAbar/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The most-deserving recipient of F-spot's venom is F-spot himself.
So, F-spot, why not just save your little venom for later, or simply lock yourself into a closet and talk to yourself.
F* SAYS: Chasabar, you have admitted that you fell under my influence and purchased PEGASUS GOLD. So, to that end, you ( and several of your buddies ) hold me responsible for the losses you suffered upon Pegasus' collapse. Somehow, you are hoping I will break down in tears, sob over your losses, and beg your forgiveness.

I simply provided the compelling analysis and my comments at that time were aimed at Haggis aka Greenstone Gold in a running dialectic we had concerning the company. I wish I myself had listened more closely to Haggis ( since he turned out to be a former employee of Pegasus and was intimately familiar with the creditors of the company ) . After all, I incurred hefty losses myself. That's tough but life goes on.

So, when you state that I am full of venom, it is actually YOU who are full of venom since you refuse to be an adult and own up to your own losses. I did NOT force you to buy pulled the trigger. So be a grown-up boy and accept full responsibility for your error. Stop targeting me repeatedly for your incessant hostility about those Pegasus losses! The past is gone...time for another trade, kid. You might be a winner next time up.

Just like LGBUGULLYistic, who fell under Puetz's influence long ago, you will forever be full of hate for mistakes that ultimately are owing to nobody other than yourself ( with maybe just a little bit of help from that triumvirate of market manipulation crooks, Greenspan, Rubin, and Clinton ) .



(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:53 - ID#242325)
Gollum: The Fed only controls short rates. If they ease too much, long rates will go up even as shorts decline as investors start to see more inflation down the road. This is happening now. Long rate have jumped a lot since the Fed eased.I expect one or perhaps two more 25 bp Fed easings by early next year. But no more despite the howls for a 3% funds rate from some on Wall Street.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:54 - ID#219363)
Gotta do something to pay the bills, especially when you're writing checks against a 5.5 trillion dollar debt. *grin* Truly Rubin and company are going to be having a problem now. Their most expanding market for treasures were foreign folks uploading cash into the US economy, and now that the party appears to be over, well, who out there is going to be buying all that paper up when they could wait until tomorrow and get a better deal. That's been gold's problem, it's not that people don't want it for 320, or 300, or 280, but why buy when you could buy cheaper tomorrow. Horrible thing about financing the government is the options they'll exercise, the lengths they'll go to, to avoid having to cut costs. They have many avenues for staying solvent besides debt financing in the bond market, they could always decide to increase revenues. heheh.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:55 - ID#43349)
Where do I buy impeachment puts?

Greenstone Gold
(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:58 - ID#428218)
BIG BOYS RULES........take no prisoners...

farfel ( @CHASABAR...who are you kidding? )

There is no point crying over spilt milk.......

For those of you who are into speculation, check out the possible resurection of PAGET MINING NL and there projects in Senegal..... NOT an easy one !!


(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:58 - ID#421269)

When it won't fit on the screen it needs to be cut in half. It screws the margins to heck and back.

Greenstone Gold
(Thu Nov 05 1998 18:59 - ID#428218)
BIG BOYS RULES........take no prisoners...

farfel ( @CHASABAR...who are you kidding? )

There is no point crying over spilt milk.......

For those of you who are into speculation, check out the possible resurection of PAGET MINING NL and their projects in Senegal..... NOT an easy one !!


Greenstone Gold
(Thu Nov 05 1998 19:00 - ID#428218)
BIG BOYS RULES........take no prisoners...

farfel ( @CHASABAR...who are you kidding? )

There is no point crying over spilt milk.......

For those of you who are into speculation, check out the possible resurection of PAGET MINING NL and their projects in Senegal..... NOT an easy one !!


(Thu Nov 05 1998 19:04 - ID#43349)
Away to do errands.
So an early good night.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 19:10 - ID#341226)
@HAGGIS...what's your read on Homestake's purchase of Prime...
...and do you think the acquisitive German Baron Von Finck is about to purchase the entire pot of gold soon?

Who do you think bought the Malaysian government's interest in Homestake?

It seems to me you've been following this what's the scoop, old sage one?



(Thu Nov 05 1998 19:15 - ID#119358)
@ChrisO.......brave matador with a kinda' bad limp.........salud!!!!!!!!
great prose'o'gold.......kudO.

we piss on this wall of worry together, yes? G&P to YA!!!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 19:15 - ID#408170)
I want to say thanks. Your unending research, and the results thereof,
( Gold in ECU break out ) , is one of the most important "finds"to date
On Wed Oct.28 I believe it was when I read your post, I printed
out every chart, checked it twice, and had that feeling you get
on Christmas eve. Something magical is going to happen.
George's ( dream ) post on Nov 2, added another mysterious element
to this now expected event. ( Thanks George ) , for sharing.
When we get trend followers "Golden Cross" ( 50ema over 200ema ) ..soon?
Santa, will have arrived.

Excellent job!! RB

(Thu Nov 05 1998 19:22 - ID#119358)
@EarlO.........I'm beginning to suspect that..........
Mike O'Sheller is on the "inside".........he alone knows more than three or four smart men. perhaps, not of this milky way.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 19:37 - ID#119358) puts da' lime in da' coconut..........
....and da' coke in da' den da' rum in da' coconut.......and den you shakey and drinkie...uhHuH...ayeeeeeee!.... monOmon...dat's real good. DOnald and LimeyO you do have de' right idea! ( gulp ) ( and my sincere apologies to da' baptist.bugs ) uhHuH.... ( gulp )

(Thu Nov 05 1998 19:58 - ID#423313)
Mr. Clinton getting auric....?
Noticed a replay of a clip on tonite's news where Clinton wants to find a way avoid the large booms and busts caused by HOT money. Maybe slow the flow a little.


Got gold?

One of the Thermopolyean 300.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:03 - ID#219363)
Off topic ( kind of ) : If the government were to have a budget surplus, is there any chance at all that it would be used to reduce the debt ? I mean, that's where it comes from when they run a deficit, seems reasonable to put it back when there's a surplus.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:06 - ID#290202)
Hi Yo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(whatsisname?)
Ya gots Buffett on the left hoardin' 1/5 of the world's silver.

An' then thars Japan on the right buyin' up all that Mexican shiny stuff.

What do that add up to fer '99 ag prospects???????????

O Yeh! Then there's why 2 whatsis...........

Hmmmmmmm....If silver does indeed spike down to $4.40ish ( and I

ALWAYS believe APH ) could that be somewhers clos to

The Buy of the Decade??? ( round about '00 to '02 ) ???

( Wifey! Sell the heifers! We'uns is gwine ta be needin' some dry powder! )

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:10 - ID#429363)
Let's face it. Every time Gold rallies everyone jumps on board and says Gold $1,000,000,000 by next week. Then it drops and I claim $0.00000001 by next week.

Let's all agree on ONE thing! Let's all pray that Gold can go the next 6 months ( Starting monday for the BULLS ) without having not 1 trade at $295.00, NOT ONCE!! This range sucks! If we're going to break out above $300 let's do it and NEVER come back. If we're going to break down, let's do it and go down and keep going down.

The 200 day moving average is at $295.10! That says it all. Buy below $290 and sell above $300.

Screw gold I'm buying an S&P tomorrow! ( Seriously! ) At least that knows where it wants to go.. week after week after week after month after month!!!!

Go stocks go!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:13 - ID#190411)
Pumpkin Pages,
Nick at the Contrarian site has a sort-of-new issue. I didn't read it all yet, but there are a raft of quotes there that are choice.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:16 - ID#190411)
Essay at USA Gold, worth a look,

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:21 - ID#119358)
I agree with you...silver is a screamin' buy, no doubt! Hell, Kodak and Fuji ( da' FILM WAR ) are sellin' film like it's day-old bread...I've bought 20 rolls in two weeks....I'm takin' pictures of my shoes...buffet's dead right...again. salud!!!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:28 - ID#290456)

That quote under 'Clinton quotes for the month' by Paul Milne is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. I'd post it here, but it's a little spicy for prime time ( ;^ ) ) .

Charleston Gold Bug
(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:37 - ID#344389)
Gold Collapsing?
Are Barts' prices right?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:38 - ID#290202)' the winner is...
STUDIO.R: mebbe you shud git some extry film an' start a movin'
pitcher compny! I hears thars gold in the Beverlys!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:40 - ID#290456)
RB @ gold/ECU

I wouldn't be surprised, now that gold has poked its nose across that chart boundary to see it whacked back a couple of times, and see some basing or flat trading before the momentum in gold/ECU turns up. A sharp move up would surprise me.

RJ knows the 'real' gold market perhaps better than anyone here, and he says back down ( in gold/USD terms ) before gold goes up big. We'll see. Looks like $310 to 315 is a good first target to me.

I just read the charts, and sometimes guess right and/or get lucky.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:42 - ID#219363)
Mis-print on the yahoo quote site says Hungary tanked 68 percent today. : ) I mean, I hope it was a mistake, unless Hungary got nuked today and I didn't hear about it in the news.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:43 - ID#290456)
Charleston Gold Bug

CBS marketwatch has

GC 98Z at 294.3 - .5
SI 98Z at 5.04 - .005

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:45 - ID#119358)
@tink I'll have me one mo'.....and dats' 'bout it............
glenn..........when you goa fishin', do you get a whole bunch'0'backlashes? I jest toss that ol' purple worm out 'der....and just relax.....yes, a lunker, set da' hook baby.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:56 - ID#340262)
Rational Exuberance
This is turning into quite a bull market a 1500 point gain in less than a month without a significant correction I am glad I don't have the philosophy of sell short and hold - its either going to double top or rocket beyond its old highs probably to an arrow top - It's a bird its a plane no its supper bubble -
If every one decides to take there profits at once which they well might do watch out below! Greenspan does not seem concerned so it must be justified and rational speculative exuberance unlike the other kind he mentioned a few months ago.

The bulls are not getting a chance to buy on the dips since its been a straight up market so there buying at higher and higher prices the stocks that no one wanted just a month ago a - momentum market they call it - any one got any hot tips on what to do next? - cjk -

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:58 - ID#286230)
A non-voter's view

(Thu Nov 05 1998 20:59 - ID#227238)
Studio R:
( took time out nourishment. Some a dat leftover slow cooked prime rib and fresh cabbage slaw from the garden. Its called a french dip w/slaw. yummy )

But no puddin. damn.

Yes, that Sheller fella has been on a roll. ..... For about as long as he's been here. Hate to open the thread again but with the star thingy and his mysterious appearances and all. ...... I just think he may be one of "Them". You know, Templars. They have special dark power, you know? .... They're everywhere, you know?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:01 - ID#119358)
@savage.O..........paramount studio.r................
I know better than 'dat...........farfel and his buds would run me outta' their biz licketty-split....I'd become a poor howard hughes.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:05 - ID#190411)
I second Silverbaron,
Quotecom says last trade @294.3 at 20:00:06

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:07 - ID#219363)
Shhhh, you aren't supposed to talk about the Templars, they'll know.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:12 - ID#29048)
Bart's charts are spot is @ 293.05 as of 8:49 or about 25 minutes ago

Gold December futures are/were 294.30 at about the same time....

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:13 - ID#190411)
The thinness of afterhours trading surely lends itself to the manipulation thing, doesn't it?
What is the dollar volume in gold paper trade compared to the volume of the companies that produce the metal?
I suppose that we'll have to see the wreckage after London gets their way with the old yellow hag.

Studio.R: Most LOL's per word. -- Agreed?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:15 - ID#119358)
Down here, the templars have joined up with the Shriners....funky little sumabitches in their suits'o'armor, ridin' those little scooters....nice guys fer sure!

But O' Sheller is in with this bunch......

these are some bad dudes, mon.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:26 - ID#288295)

Hmmmmmm....I had a little different meaning in mind for 'Odd Fellows'....don't think I would wear a uniform with THAT written on the back.... ( ;^ ) )

micky finn
(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:29 - ID#293379)

Finally got my password...I would like to thank everyone in here for not only a profusion information, but for contributing to the Elan that is throughout the thread.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:29 - ID#30345)
Green span so much as said that the financial instruments of the day are beyond human ( his ) evaluation. This thing is going to splat and he won't be able to take action. He took an unexpected rate cut early to keep the market from tanking on his politico friends victory parade. The same as releasing numbers offf schedule to maximize the bond positiions temporarily. I'm sorry but this ship is otta control...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:31 - ID#288295)
How many of us bugs are here at Kitco?

Only 808 votes on the survey, and it has been up all week, hasn't it? ( And I musta voted 20, maybe 30 times myself )

How 'bout a survey to see how many of us are out here? ( Promise I won't vote but once )

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:34 - ID#30345)
@ silverbaron
well you can count me in for eight or ten votes... lt 285

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:37 - ID#333126)
lukewarm news
US trade deficit keeps on trucking

Credit card defaults keep on... oh, you get the idea

EJ ( and others ) thanks for the input on the T-bonds. Personally, I feel I should have followed my gut and bought more puts when the bonds went up in the morning ... oh well... tomorrow's another day.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:37 - ID#227290)
Greenspan had a very successful bowel movement tonight. Look for the Dow to blow straight through 9000 tomorrow.

( I'm not being too sarcastic am I? )

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:40 - ID#119358)
@silverbarOn.......monty python on a lambretta...........
actually the IOOF ( fondly referred to as the "one hundred fools" ) is a great group of helping fellows...proud philanthropists...salud!!!!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:46 - ID#288295)
cjk @ Rational Exhuberance - NOT

No hot tips, but I'm not brave enough to touch this market, either way. It could go to the Moon ( sorry Mozel ) or to ground zero in the next 2 months, an even bet either way. It may even do something really weird, and go ballistic up, then ballistic down.

Has anyone looked at the specialist short interest again, since the chart was posted here a couple days ago? As I recall someone saying, the smart money is shorter than at any time since 87.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:47 - ID#412286)
Apparently behind the scenes the Clinton Admin has been working to make CUBA more accessible to Americans. Currently, travel to Cuba is prohibited unles for "cultural or educational reasons". Apparently the govt is allowing an expansive interpretatation and EDUCATIONAL TOURS to Cuba are beginning to sprout up everywhere. In fact, the Cubans have hired Legal counsel to now make almost any trip fall within an embargo exception. Give Clinton CREDIT on this one as he is working to expand the right to travel. The law works in wonderful ways. See YOU on May Day at CLUB VERADERO!!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:50 - ID#34883)

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:52 - ID#34883)
The Mother of all Foodfights

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:54 - ID#30345)
specialists pegged. members higher too. omy.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 21:58 - ID#28994)
Them yorkers are mean buggars...keep a sharp eye.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:02 - ID#300202)
Nice to hear that Americans have less travel restrictions. I used to travel daily into the U.S. with just a D.L. or Birth Cert-now they tell me I will need a passport. Go figure! Keep it up & Kanada Kustoms might even search ur vehicles for tings like-let me see-aaaah drugs.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:10 - ID#219363)
The absurdity could end at anytime. Feel sorry for the folks who sold at the bottom, then bought back in recently, and will soon sell at the bottom again. Hard to make money like that.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:10 - ID#187109)
Words on
Look for him in 2004 ( latest 2008 ) for Prez of US.

Now that would be ass kickin'.........uh huh.

Could you imagine a Prez whose platform would be

LOGIC and COMMON SENSE. People may actually go

for it, eh? I bet if he had any skeletons in

his closet he'd cop to 'em....he'd say something

like, "what are ya gonna do about it??...Punk!"

Or perhaps a double knee drop would be in order.

I'd hate to be a reporter during a press

conference on a bad start the conference

he would pile drive two or three of 'em........

just to put him in the mood.....that would be great.

I would like to see Hulk Hogan as the Secretary

of Defense. What an ambassador of assault he

would be. Andre the Giant would make a decent

secret service agent..........Ventura in 2004!!!!!!



away...for grub


(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:13 - ID#300202)
is mysterioso also-we have a Coast Guard that doen't guard our coast, we have Border Guards ( Canada Customs ) that don't guard, our Revenuers do not carry guns, we only have one Federal Police Agency ( causes less confusion ) .FBI's say on border cases-it is interstate, U.S. Customs say it is our border, IRS-it is our money, DEA-it is our drugs & if they carry guns-well u know what BATF say. Go figure & get a life or better-go to Quba. Luuuuucy- u have some splainin' to do.
I'll shut up. Am on the juice.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:14 - ID#30345)
as far as I'm concerned there is organic , and then there is mineral...... We'll and then there is farfel.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:14 - ID#187109)
I'm gettin cut off here....
Meant to say....Words on "the body' Ventura.... ( Minn Guvvy )

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:17 - ID#30345)
No remorse. If they are traders and they are THAT greedy, with no FEAR... well then they deserve to be SMOKED.......

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:21 - ID#412286)
Veradero has the best beaches in the world. Friends of mine from Canada and Germany who travel to Cuba regularly state that Americans are in for a treat once the Right wingers get over Fidel Phobia and allow more Freedom of travel. As I hear it it is the Miami Cubans who exploited Cuban workers and who are worried about getting their ill gotten property back ( owned by their Batista loving Grand parents and Parents ) if Fidel is legitimized by US relations. Clinton is the first US President to move in the right direction. We are FINALLY moving in the right direction through LEGAL interpretations surrounding the embargo thanks to Clinton. One Cuban commentator noted that the Miami Cubans oppressed many Cubans and instead of them getting the land back which was taken by the workers through the revolution, the families of the oppressed should sue the Miami Cubans in US Court for the damages they caused to Cuban families through their oppression and take over Miami. The Law works in wonderful ways..Justice Yes.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:21 - ID#187109)
Although if Sheller wanted to run for Prez he'd get my vote. Hey, he wouldn't have to travel to Cal for an astrological reading ;-^ ) crawl on the shoulders of a giant


Irvine Boyo - so you were in Manhattan today??

grin...go golf

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:26 - ID#373403)
Kitco introspective

Monica and McLuhan
What Would the Late Media Guru
Have Said About News and the
World Wide Web?

By Robert X. Cringely

The impact of this trend goes far beyond the White House, and this is where I see the most significant cause for concern. This same trend away from discrimination and gatekeeping on the part of the media is at the heart of our current global economic crisis.

Six months ago, there was a financial crisis in Asia, but the media said it wouldn't affect America. We were too strong, our economy too robust. Turbocharged by sales of computers, software, and communications gear, we were going to ride out the financial squall. That's what "they" said, and generally, we believed "them." Long after the Asian crisis began, long after the Russian crisis followed, the Dow was still cruising to new heights, cracking 9,000 last July.

Today the Dow is 1,200 points lower, but the economists still see little problem with the underlying fundamentals of the U.S. economy. The Japanese economy is more crippled than ever, and the Japanese government is incapable of taking action to fix the problem. Yet the yen is rising against the dollar. What the heck is going on here? And what has changed since July?

People have been talking. At a time when the experts say there is no cause for panic, when our leaders urge us not to panic, we are panicking. Much of this is fueled by information, and the major source of timely information in the world today is the Internet. Just as with Matt and Monica and Bill, there are no longer editorial committees at major newspapers, magazines and networks deciding for us what we ought to know or not. In fact, the media outlets have become reactive, more often than not following the Internet, rather than leading it.

The result is instability. This is new territory for all of us, and we don't yet know how to read it. How do we decide whether or not to believe what we read on some Web site, even this one? Nobody knows. Over time, we may come up with some conventional wisdom in this area. But until we do, people will continue to panic, to see conspiracies where there probably are none, to sell all their holding on a whim and suggest that their neighbors do the same. Some of these prophesies are self-fulfilling, which scares me. As a guy who has been breaking stories in this area for more than a decade, the power of the published word is scary. And I like to think of myself as a responsible journalist. But what if the journalist is a Ted Kazinsky?

There's no going back, of course. We couldn't shut down the Internet if we wanted to. Nor would we want to. The only culture disciplined enough to consciously reject technology for social reasons was 17th century Japan, which rejected firearms as a preferred alternative to having all the samurai killed off in shooting matches. But that was 17th century Japan -- not today's Japan, which has to take some responsibility for causing this mess in the first place.

The upshot of this is that it puts real strain on the tools of international financial management. The G-7 and the International Monetary Fund have come under attack for ineffectively managing the world economy. And it's true: They ARE ineffective. Their total fixation on using the supply of money to control inflation -- the basic precept of Keynesian economics -- doesn't stand up in the Internet age. This is because the hearts and minds that mattered to Keynes were those of a few dozen rich men who met in smoke-filled rooms. Those were the days when a public works program -- or a world war -- could handily drag a country out of recession, even depression. But no more. We've got too many people managing their own money, keeping an eyeball on e-trade, and asking themselves, hour-by-hour, whether it's time to cash out. Governments can't affect economies if their citizens are actively working against them.

It may be a global village, but nobody has control of the village's money.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:27 - ID#300202)
Perhaps he can return to the U.S. to continue his professional baseball career. Cheap medical/dental for Americans-go fer it. Lucy!

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:30 - ID#187109)
On ANOTHER Jake.......he makes sense..........that is.....
if this all made sense........ ( talk of inflation ) ....hmmm

it is worth a quick look. Do not doubt historical cycles...........just ANOTHER arrow in the great quiver......... ( THWOCK! ) ... seek truth that is hiding....... ( have you seen it? )


(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:35 - ID#333126)
what kind of crack are they on?

didn't someone here mention it was the worst bond auction in more than 10 years? hmmm..........

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:38 - ID#30345)
@ravenfire: more like in 20 years

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:40 - ID#287358)
I see that you are halucinating again, trying to make believe that the reasons people don't like you is somehow not *you*.

I could care less about the Pegasus thing. I did not sell out during the panic, and I did just fine. Shame on you for indicating to "old sage" Haggis that that had anything to do with anything. You got him so upset that he posted his board four times. You should not mislead him, knowing that he is on your "short list" of people who put up with you. It is all just yada to you. Yes you are venomous. You are also silly.



(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:40 - ID#344239)
Hungary BUX ^BUX 11:16AM 1859.61 -4152.65 -69.07%

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:44 - ID#287358)
Hey, Farf, there goes 3-cubed, slipping religion into his post. You do what yada gotta do, and go after him and be nasty again. Lengthen your long list.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:48 - ID#333126)
must be stupid data problems with these online quotes
check these webpages out ( probably only valid today ) :>

And check out how Turkey's stock market index did. there seems to be some disagreement here.

also, btw, Hungary didn't get nuked... hehe...check out

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:48 - ID#31868)
ROR, Namaste' gulp and a puff...I reckon since you are feeling all legal and all we
should give reparations to the Cubans familes that Kennedy allowed to be slaughtered...oh yeah...a recomendation...I wouldn't talk about Cubans in Miami like that when in Miami, you are sure to lose your ears and tongue...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:49 - ID#30345)
@3-cubed...believe that should have been pooped?
I think that'll cost us 4100$ or so.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 22:56 - ID#113316)

What's involved in getting the "education" OK from the state department? Bet I could catch one of those Havana rafts on a 90 mile backhaul from Miami.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:01 - ID#413156)
Logically the Losers and illogically the winners
If only 5% of Gold Investors actually make money then the markets are illogical or one must assume the markets are controlled or contrived and manipulated. If 50% of investors make or lose their money this would be a logical market. Dow =12800 =illogical. Gold=180.00=illogical. We know can guess who will make the money over the next few years.

micky finn
(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:04 - ID#293379)
Presidential timber

I think a ticket of Jesse and the hulkster, would not only sweep most of the electoral college, but would do wonders for the sale of steroids to our youth. Junk -yard -dog as the newly appointed Ambassador to Iraq would certaintly calm things down..

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:06 - ID#30345)
For every winner there is a loser. Some folks just win more often than others..It ain't no big deal. Catch this's coming up to a nice peak.....Well any how I won't crowd you guys any more.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:22 - ID#194311)
longj....wise observation
"...a multitude of financial instruments, some of them with a complexity beyond human comprehension."

Sounds like it's outta control to me.

Did you see that they've indexed options for the bankruptcy rate...that is just hiliarious I think and must be the ultimate in the stupidity of derivative instruments, perhaps a capping event.

To the tunes of Sunday Bloody Sunday, U2
How looooooong?,
How long must we sing this song?

Sunday Bloody sunday.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:22 - ID#219363)
Nah, 5% of investors could be making most of the money *grin*, while the other 95% have trouble sleeping. I like some markets even better, say for instance, the equities where people can dump money into the market and the average investor can lose money. Often ignored that when 10 people put in 10 bucks, there aren't 100 bucks there when it's all said and done. People forget to figure in commissions, corporations selling more stock into the market to meet capital requirements ( the purpose of the game after all ) , and my new favorite, dumbing down options to dilute share-holder value ( been happening a lot lately ) . The house always wins in the end. The more things change, well, you know. There ain't no such thing as getting something for nothing, no free lunch.

John Disney
(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:22 - ID#24135)
RSA golds lousy performance
to cormack and gold dancer ..
Its a funny thing .. As a result of rand strength
( which has firmed from 6.6 to 5.6 to the $ ) most of
the RSA golds plotted in rands look to be in down
trends .. Thus all the BIG Institutions with bright
young analysts advising them ( who havent been bright
enough to convert the prices to $ and wash out the
currency effect ) have been avoiding them..
I even had a female analyst tell me yesterday that
she preferred the NA mines to RSA mines because of
their CASH FLOW. I didnt give her too hard a time
( she had nice legs ) .
.. This is bourn out by a glance at ASA which is
performing in line with the XAU .. the other RSA
stocks trade locally in the main and are as always
becoming even more exceptional value.
... If these guys are not carefull, soon either the
Brits or the Americans will step in and take the whole
market from them.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:24 - ID#30345)
Just one more thought... If the Fed doesn't think it can react fast enough to capital flow changes ( and monetary crises ) then what chance does the EURO think it will have..I think if the Euro launch is delayed for any reason, it will undermine the credibility of its ability to react in polocy terms ( this is required for any fiat ) . Also I haven't heard any speculations for the gold reserve percentage to be set for the EURRO. any thoughts? I might speculate an even 10%... But 10 to 15 is the range in general speculation. This will affect the POG. BTW if I am full of S* please tell me so, so asto minimize the blabber...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:25 - ID#194311)
Looks like gold...
may be getting over it's cheap Aussie hangover.....

wonder if it was the Foster's or the Bottle o' Red?

Need's a little Nipponese chop a SAKE!.....gulp.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:26 - ID#30345)
THAT cracks me up.... I think E-mail is our weapon here....I bet we could start some knarly chain letters...I'm trying to influence everyone I some pretty scared reactions too....I'lll stay for a moment...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:28 - ID#34883)
Good link to Otto. Interesting read.

Tomorrows junk:

XAU goes up - regardless of the POG - go gold!

goodnight all...

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:32 - ID#219363)
@Kiwi, Longj
My favorite one, and I can't remember the name of the instrument, is the one that is backed by life insurance policies that have been purchased from people who have been diagnosed as terminal. What a morbid thing to invest in, I can't believe someone actually thought of doing such a thing. I even heard the "market dynamics" of the instrument on the radio recently where people were upset because drug therapies are extended the life of the patients and hurting "investors" because the instrument packaging houses have to cover the premiums on the policies until the patients die. Bunch'a damn ghouls.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:33 - ID#194311) wanna be scared?
Man have I got some stories for you.

Want to hear about the gold dealer/analyst in a major Swiss bank who just about crapped his pants when he was shown how frail the underlying assumptions in the Black-Scholes equation are. 3 or 4 lines of stochastic calculas can rip to shreds any models they've cooked to deal with these things.

Wierd thing is they believe they have a found a mechanism for making endless streams of money, at least they thought so. Well so far they've bet 8000 tons of gold on it...25% of Central bank reserves, problem is looks like they'll be wrong within the next year. The unwinding of the gold-carry trade will be a turning point in financial and human history that will shake civilisation to it's boots. it's interesting to ponder how much the general public will ever know beyond the mother of all failures will circumnavigate the globe faster than the concorde....supercomputers, superfailures.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:39 - ID#30345)
I am only going to crap when I see the mobs. I have NO debt. NONE. But I've gotta get out of this country. Most of these people are so cracked out they won't even Know until their pusher can't score for them. Hell they probably cash their check on mother's day each month with an X.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:40 - ID#413156)
A Good Casino thought
Longj That Euro is a can of unwashed worms but then again the American dollar might just need a few car washes.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:41 - ID#233199)
Anyone hear any Golden DIndar rumours lately?
I need somethnkgto dream about...

John Disney
(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:44 - ID#24135)
The F* factor ..
for ChasAbar
I missed something. As you know Ive been recently
tracking the AJI ( Average Jewish Intelligence ) to
determine the effect that F* has had on it ..
( I had never realized F* was Jewish so I had completely
overlooked the political/social/historical effect this
man was having ) .
I have ENLARGED my efforts and concluded that the
PERCEIVED AJI ( the PAJI ) is the proper averaging tool.
The would be the product of an individual's IQ and
his VERBOSITY.. For example, if you are stupid but
quiet .. nobody knows and you drop out of the calculation.
IF you are VERY VERBOSE however .. you have a huge
impact on the calculation..
On this basis, F* has now reduced the PAJI to a level
someone BELOW the average world IQ. Jews can now be
regarded as silly schmucks just like the rest of us
and there is no longer any reason for discriminating
against them.
This is a monumental contribution to world brotherhood
and I feel there will come a time when statues of
F* ( baseball cap and all ) will rise all over America.
I only hope it will be in my lifetime ..
All Jews can now sleep easy .. even my mother-in-law.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:46 - ID#30345)
Maybe the y2k bug can shut down the computers, but I know there will be a run on the banks. With $1.17 on hand for each $100 it won't even take the lot of us kooks at kitco to take them out.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:46 - ID#290202)
EB: Did you know that Ventura's birth name was Soros?

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:47 - ID#16255)
@Envy Money for the dying...
I am not sure but you may be referring to Biattical ( sp? ) settlements.
Its actually a "make a wish" deal for the terminally ill that have a life insurance policy. They give somewhere around 70 cents on the dollar in a lump sum, tax free to the dying person to do with whatever. When the person passes away, The life insurance company pays the full amount to the fund. These funds have constantly been doing 10-15% a year and are
tax free profits for the investor. If you knew you were gonna croak in a year, wouldn't you wanna have some fun and take care of business before you check out?

Best Regards, O.L.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:49 - ID#32078)
DISNEY and SA golds
On a day by day basis, it has been my experience that the SA golds reflect the daily change in London gold prices more than the Comex. Today, Comex gold didn't move much until the XAU threatened to go alone, then gold just tagged along a few bucks. London PM actually went down from the AM quote, altho still up for the day.

Watch London gold early to see if this move is for real. If up a few bucks, then SA golds will follow and Comex may try another surge. Otherwise...

This advice is from a guy who shorted PDG to hedge my long fund position ( big mistake ) and managed to hedge my profits to zero. PDG set a new 52 week high today.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:51 - ID#219363)
I see what you're saying, but I dunno, just too weird for me. I mean, at some basic level down there, if I were the investor and I paid someone who was terminal for their policy, I'd think that was great for them and I guess for me ( in money terms ) . But then if they live for a long time, I dunno, you're covering the premiums into the future, and I just wouldn't want to ever be in an investment where I'm kinda wishing someone would die. It'd freak with my head. On the other side of it, I make it a point never to make myself worth more dead to someone than alive.

(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:54 - ID#413156)
Gold next time
Envy You sure know all the angles Not one of those corporate stingers I hope? Buzzzzzzzzzzz Grin Plunk

John Disney
(Thu Nov 05 1998 23:59 - ID#24135)
forgive long post .. new left wing Europe Speaks
EU Expansion Policy Under Pressure from Leftist Governments

On November 4, European Commission ( EC ) Foreign Affairs
Commissioner Hans van den Broek presented the European Parliament
with a report on the progress made by 11 candidate countries
towards meeting economic and political requirements for accession
to the European Union ( EU ) . In the report, the EC did not
recommend enlarging the "fast-track" group of six countries --
Hungary, Poland, The Czech Republic, Slovenia, Estonia, and
Cyprus -- by any of the candidates from the second group of the
aspirant member states. The Commission enumerated reasons why
none of the countries from the second group, which includes
Lithuania, Latvia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, and Malta, should
be put on a fast track to EU membership. More significantly, the
EC suggested that even the "first division" group could be
reduced. Van den Broek's report sent a warning to two of the
"first division" candidates -- the Czech Republic and Slovenia --
regarding serious problems that these countries would face in
meeting the EU membership criteria "if the stagnation observed in
these countries continues." Another country from the first
group, Poland, has been criticized for lagging in meeting the
economic requirements and for having "mixed achievements" in
adjusting its legislation to EU standards. Although detailed
negotiations between the EU and the first six candidates will
begin in Brussels on November 10, as originally scheduled, the
signal sent by the EU to Eastern and Central Europe is anything
but encouraging.

Candidate countries' reactions to the EC report understandably
reflected their disappointment over what they believe is
unjustified criticism. The strongest negative reaction to the
report came from the Lithuanian Prime Minister Gediminas
Vagnorius, whose country hoped it would be invited to join the EU
entry negotiations by the year-end. Vagnorius said that the EU's
decision to postpone the launch of accession talks with Lithuania
until next year came as a complete surprise. "Since the
beginning of this year, Lithuania was not given any indication of
failures that would prohibit a start to entry negotiations with
the EU," Vagnorius said. The Lithuanian Prime Minister stressed
that his country "does not understand and cannot agree" with the
EC report on Lithuania, and called on the EC to provide
statistical evidence to back its claim that Lithuania is not
complying with the EU admission criteria. Vagnorius said that,
in fact, his country has demonstrated, most recently during the
Russian economic crisis, that it has a stable democratic
political system and a strong, market-oriented economy.

Like Vagnorius, former Czech Prime Minister and current Chairman
of the Civic Democratic Party ( ODS ) , Vaclav Klaus, said that the
EC's evaluation of the progress his country made towards
fulfilling EU membership criteria was biased. It wasn't long ago
that the Czech Republic was considered by the West to be the
country with the best chances of a speedy accession, primarily
thanks to strict pro-market economic policies designed and
implemented by Klaus. In an interview with the Czech daily
Lidove Noviny, Klaus suggested that the generally negative tone
of the EC report reflected a shift in the EU's expansion policy.
"In some countries, there is a strong campaign against the
enlargement of the EU," told Klaus the daily.

Just as concern is growing about an increasingly assertive and
confrontational Russia, Eastern and Central European leaders are
awakening to the fact that the EU's commitment to expansion is
shifting. This shift is due to the fact that many Western
European countries are now being ruled by socially-oriented
center-left governments. A major concern of these governments is
that, if the Union's borders were opened to the East, the EU
would be flooded by cheap Eastern European labor, resulting in
increased unemployment in the West. The main initiator of the
shift in the EU towards more controlled and more conservative
enlargement of the Union is Germany, under its new Chancellor,
Social Democrat Gerhard Schroeder. Schroeder has sent several
recent signals toward Eastern Europe, making it clear that the
expansion policy of his government will differ substantially from
that promoted by his predecessor, Helmut Kohl.

At an informal EU summit in Austria on October 24, Schroeder
stated that EU expansion might be "more difficult than expected"
and warned against raising the aspiring member countries' hopes.
Schroeder said, "It is important that we proceed with membership
negotiations with our eyes open. We should not give the
candidate countries any false illusions." Shroeder reiterated
his conservative approach to EU expansion again during his trip
to Poland on November 4. Following talks with Polish Prime
Minister Jerzy Buzek on the subject of the EU enlargement,
Schroeder said, "In contrast to my predecessor, I do not have
enough sense of fantasy to name a date for EU enlargement. We
should stop citing such date to avoid creating illusions."
Previously, it had been suggested that Poland and the other five
"fast-track" EU candidate countries could join the EU in four to
five years.

Germany, which will assume the EU Presidency for the first half
of 1999, is indisputably the strongest supporter of the shift
toward a more restrictive and protracted enlargement process.
Germany, however, is not the only party pressuring Brussels with
to slow down the expansion. Currently, two thirds of Western
European countries are ruled by socialist governments, looking
for a "third way" -- some kind of compromise between laissez
faire economics and strong central government control. Given the
commonality in political views between Germany's Schroeder and
Britain's Blair, and the strong socialist orientation of France's
Jospin, we can expect a radical change in what has until now been
a liberal and enthusiastic EU enlargement policy. Eastern and
Central European countries can expect frustration and delay at
best, and rejection at worst.