I'm not so sure that it is a failing of US military to tell the plan in front, ala Hollywood.
First, re Hollywood, I suspect that since "Suspense" as a dramatic element is distinguished from "Mystery" by foreshadowing, that it should rightfully be a part of Hollywood. To suggest that military campaigns are waged on other than deceit is, I think, naive.
As to Saddam, I'm afraid we just don't know the facts, and won't.

Federal Reserve Board


Remarks by Laurence H. Meyer
Before the Financial Institutions Practice Group, The Federalist Society,
Washington, D.C.
November 12, 1998


Modernizing Financial Services Regulation

Holding Company Framework

Both the House and Senate bills would require that organizations that conduct banking and other financial businesses organize in a holding company form where the bank and the other activities are subsidiaries of the holding company. Profits and losses of the business lines accrue to the holding company and thus do not directly benefit nor endanger the bank, the federal safety net, or the taxpayer. The safety net subsidy--which I will describe in a minute--is not directly available to the holding company or its nondepository affiliates and competition is thus more balanced.

-cut-

Banks have a lower cost of funds than other financial entities because of the safety net. This federal safety net, and the subsidy that goes along with it, is provided by the government in order to buy systemic stability. But it has a cost: increased risk taking by banks, reduced market discipline, and consequently the need for more onerous bank supervision in order to balance the resultant moral hazard. The last thing we should want is to extend that subsidy over a wider range of activities, which is, I believe, exactly what would happen if bank op subs could engage in wider nonbank financial activities. Not only would that increase moral hazard--and need for bank-like supervision--but it would also unbalance the competitive playing field between bank subs and independent firms engaging in the same business, a strange result for legislation whose ultimate purpose is to increase competition for financial services.

Not just the generators.
The LDS canneries are closing up shop as well.
Some of them have been swamped with orders and their shelves have been emptied.
And they are now closing access to people outside their religion.

-----
Swing chart
http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Markets/Swing.jpg
If in the next few days the markets don't fall harder
Then perhaps we are due for another leg up?

----

http://www.golden-eagle.com/cgi-bin/gn/get/forum.html

 "Agitation in Japanese Money Markets"
( vronsky ) Nov 12, 19:31 "Japan's Interest Rates fall below zero"

The Japanese slump has now entered a very severe phase. Some Japanese
investors are buying Japanese Treasury bills at a yield of minus
0.005%. Does that mean that there are demented big players in Japan?
On the contrary, some investors are so alarmed at the prospect of bank
failure that they are prepared to pay the Japanese government a small
fee to hold their money.

That says a lot about confidence in Japanese banks. But there's more.
Some of the people buying Treasuries at negative yields are actually
making a profit! They have taken advantage of Japanese Banks'
willingness to lend them yen at ever lower negative rates. The margin
isn't big but it's a nice business for big players. This lamentable
situation reflects the deep mess that the bubble economy has plunged
into, and how difficult it is to pull an economy out of depression.

Japan has tried all the Keynesian recipes of deficit spending ( and can
find nowhere else to concrete ) , it has also cut taxes, and depreciated
the yen to chase the chimera of "export-led growth". It has just
announced a four trillion yen special budget that features giving
vouchers to lower-income citizens. In monetary policy the Bank of
Japan has lowered the benchmark interest rate to 0.5% and overnight
lending rates to 0.25%. The economy is not responding.

Indeed the OECD predicts that the growth rate for 1998 will show a
negative 2.6% decline. The Nikkei Weekly has just run a large feature
saying that forecast is wildly optimistic. So what is the significance
of negative interest rates? These have been very rarely seen in
history, and mark a phenomenon which has the preconditions for a
panic. Investors and lenders are scrambling to find safe places to
park their money. Their agitation is so great that yields no longer
matter. Security is everything. Other things being equal, expect a
surge in Japan's interest in gold

Year 2000 occurs on: 1/1/00

Today is: 11/13/98

Days Left in 1998 48

Days Left in 1999 365

Total Days Left 413

Less Weekend Days ( 2 days out of every seven ) 118

Leaves : Days available for working 295

Then Subtract

Vacation Days Per Year 10

Holidays per year 12

Sick Days Per Year 6

Net Work Days left 263

No of work hours in a day 8

Average efficiency of a work hour 0.5

Number of productive hours left 1,068

Feel free to amend any parameter to your liking. -cg

Thank you, Old Soldier. I suspected this and your
opinion just confirmed it. I also think that it is
stupid to have it "against the law". In many cases
all that is required is to eliminate the head, then
system collapses - like it happened with Stalin ( he
died of natural causes, but what sea of change it brought
to millions of people, and very fast. ) . Also, it would
be "cheaper" for both USA and Iraq to have just one Saddam
killed....
I have no doubt that airstrikes and similar stuff,
while potentially is an effective way to deliver
message and destroy strategic targets, is a very
powerful factor in weakening combat readiness of
ground forces - soldiers do not need to fight any
more...you know what I mean...soldiers are not
considered for serious fight...soldiers are not ready
or even willing to seriusly fight and die ( get killed
is normal in serious fight, yes? ) ...reminds me
of infranty role in the middle ages - always behind
cavalary and always suffering tremendous casulties when
cavalary is not around...of course English archers were good,
but still in very big need of knights to protect them...

Honestly, I think that one serious problem, caused by
hightech weapons, is "spoiled-by-missiles" problem,
some kind of unusual partial degradation of the
soldier's moral, when AVERAGE soldier is no longer
prepared to die as a part of soldier's fate, although
prepared to fight....as a part of soldier's profession..
...why should somebody die when we got those missiles...

Guess, U.S. army may not find 250 ready-to-die soldiers
for "kill-the-bastard" mission...If I'm wrong, I'm sorry...
I know you are different kind of soldier and I 'm talking
only about modern status of army....

This is "spoiled-by-missiles" problem I seemed to notice,
besides, of course, destructive influence of Clinton on
the U.S. military. Did I notice the problem or it is
my imagination?..





Do you feel there is a problem


wars are worn by infrantry...

Kitco is very fast again. Best short term timing tool I've found.

Mozel - you are good in theoretical matters. You know
a lot, except that when war needs to be won with minimal
casulties, you kill the enemy commander first...Do not try
to dispute this 3,000 years old fact.

I had no idea that they were hard to come by right now. I will see tommorow. I have two now and some xtra parts. Feels good to be early.
Same goes for silver. Now if gold would only take a run to the brass ring.

What you see is just a practice of creating pressure
on Iraq - by threatening use of force through media.
I'm sure that U.S. military would not leak info on secret
operation details, if they decide to conduct one....

brazil drowns in debt
imf to the rescue!
throws brazil a noose

-EJ

Good thing I don't think that anymore.
-EJ

US Oct crude oil production lowest since 1954-EIA
WASHINGTON, Nov 12 ( Reuters ) - U.S. crude oil production last month
averaged 6.4 million barrels per day ( bpd ) , the lowest level for October since
1954, the U.S. Energy Information Administration said on Thursday.

Cheaper crude from foreign markets continued to make it more affordable to
import oil than produce it domestically.

Based on preliminary estimates, the EIA said U.S. crude imports averaged 8.3 million bpd, down 600,000 bpd from last
year's record high for the month. The EIA is the statistical agency of the U.S. Energy Department.

Crude stocks at the end of October, excluding what was held in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, totaled 340 million
barrels, the highest October level since 1994.

Separately, the EIA said U.S. petroleum demand in October averaged 18.6 million barrels per day, the lowest October
level since 1995.

Demand for finished motor gasoline reached an October record high of 8.3 million bpd. Gasoline production averaged
7.9 million bpd, 100,000 bpd below the October record set last year, the EIA said.

End-of-the month gasoline stocks stood at 157 million barrels, 600,000 million barrels less than October 1997.

Distillate fuel oil demand averaged 3.5 million bpd during October, while production reached 3.2 million bpd - 200,000
bpd less than last year.

At the end of the month, distillate fuel stocks totaled 145 million barrels, 9.2 million barrels higher than October 1997.

Total jet fuel demand averaged 1.5 million bpd last month, while production averaged 1.4 million bpd. Jet fuel stocks
stood at 43 million barrels at the end of October, down 3.1 million barrels from a year earlier.

Production of residual fuel oil averaged 691,000 bpd in October, the lowest October level since 1971. Stocks at the end
of the month were 40 million barrels, the highest for October since 1994.

for Brother Oris ..
The objectives of war cannot be met without the ability
to hold ground .. at least for a while. Infantry holds
ground .. without good infantry you cannot win a war.
Clinton is like the kid who throws rocks from his
upstairs window..then tells his mother how tough he
is..

to all ..
many of you know a lot about the Euro and how it will
work .. a question .. after the Euro is in place how
does a given country ( say Italy for example ) obtain
money to finance some national program .. this assumes
that all countries are already taxed to the limit.

Previously .. they were able to print their own
currency or to sell bonds denominated in thier own
currency ( which they could print when the bond reached
maturity ) .. but now they cannot do either can they ??
... If what I assume is correct .. their only assurance
of their national sovereignty .. is the GOLD they hold.
they will be able to raise Euros in future by issuing
gold backed bonds.
... If my assumptions are correct it should be in the
interests of all Euro member countries for the price of
Gold to rise as high as possible .. and to hold as much
as they can.
... Their Gold would represent their only freedom from
Brussels ..
....Please comment .. where do I go astray ??.. Countries
suddendly dont appear very keen to give gold to the
European CB. Maybe the Euro gold reserve is LOW
because its all the CB can GET from member countries..
and does not DARE admit this.

OMAHA, Neb. ( AP ) -- The stock market's recent swings also hit the pocketbook of billionaire investor Warren Buffett's company, Berkshire Hathaway Inc. But continued growth from the holding company's largest operation, car insurer GEICO, made up for the company's investment losses as Berkshire saw only a slight drop in third-quarter earnings from last year. Berkshire said Thursday that its net income for the three-month period ending Sept. 30 were $365 million, or $293 per diluted share, down from $366.6 million, or $297 per share, a year earlier -- a difference of less than one-half percent. Realized investment gains dropped during the quarter from $119 million last year to $101 million this year. But the company's earnings from operations, primarily GEICO, nearly erased investment losses on the earnings report as operating profits jumped from $248 million last year to $264 million. Berkshire's net earnings for the first nine months of the year were $2.263 billion, or $1,822 per share, up from $929 million from the year-ago period, or $754 per share. The net earnings for 1998 are meaningless for evaluating Berkshire, the company said.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn1m.htm

I didn't & don't dispute that kill the Other King is a rule of war.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpne20.htm

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn0o.htm

for brother Oris/Genral Mozel ..
Believe there has been recently developed unwritten law
that National Leaders would not try to assassinate
one another .. reason is to protect their own @sses.
an assassination of one leader would lead to a
retaliatory attempt on the other.

Russia is an exception to this agreement .. Russians
realize that it is in their own interests generally
both to kill their enemy's leader AND TO HAVE
THEIR OWN LEADER KILLED IN RETURN....
Most other countries have not EVOLVED to this level
of political awareness..

14268.21 +193.15 +1.37%

http://www.chaostan.com/contents.html

BONN, Germany ( AP ) -- German Finance Minister Oskar Lafontaine denied media reports Thursday that he was a candidate to succeed Jacques Santer as the European Commission president. A Social Democratic European parliamentarian, Klaus Haensch, told Saarlaendischer Rundfunk radio that he is promoting Lafontaine as a candidate for the post. ``It's Germany's turn to occupy this post,'' Haensch said. A German last held the commission presidency from 1958-67.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpin1o.htm

Gen'ral, I fear you and your aide de camp, Oris, have misunderstood the object. It is tribute that is to be exacted by the war action pending against Iraq. It is only necessary to make the cost of not paying tribute greater than the cost of paying to obtain compliance. Even a low-level IRS official knows this. M. Albright knows it, too.

DOES GOLD RESPOND THE WAY IT USED TO? Many analysts recently have declared that gold "doesn't respond the way it used to" when news comes out which is positive for the yellow metal. That's like a Canadian complaining in early October that it just doesn't snow the way it used to. Since the bull market in most world equities began in 1982, there has been a period of more than 16 years in which the stock market has performed strongly, and there has been no need to consider alternative investments such as gold and its shares. Therefore, gold does not respond, because few people are interested. From 1966 through 1982, gold much more frequently rallied when the fundamentals for precious metals were positive, since the stock market was generally declining, and people were eager for alternative investments such as gold shares, which were strong performers during this period. Once the majority of current investors are convinced that we are in a bear market for equities, the kind of behavior that gold displayed in the last bear market will repeat itself, as surely as it will snow again this winter in Canada.

Now I better understand why Senator Lugar, Republican, is urging this assasination plot on the occupant of the white house.

Proposal for Russia-Belarus-Yugoslav Federation Finds Fertile
Soil in Russia

During a visit to Russia on November 1-6, a delegation of the
five largest Yugoslav parties, led by Deputy Prime Minister of
the Yugoslav government and leader of the Serbian Radical Party,
Vojislav Seselj, promoted the idea of Yugoslavia joining the
union between Russia and Belarus. As part of the visit, the
delegation attended a joint session of the Russia-Belarus
Parliamentary Assembly on November 3 in Yaroslavl. Seselj, an
extreme nationalist denounced in the West as a war criminal, also
discussed the proposal with Russian Duma Speaker Gennady
Seleznyov, Russian Interior Minister Sergei Stepashin, Moscow
Mayor and presidential candidate Yuri Luzhkov, Communist Party
leader Gennady Zyuganov, and the Patriarch of Moscow and All
Russia, Alexei II. In addition, the Yugoslav delegation visited
the Russian Foreign Ministry.

Following the talks, Luzhkov, Zyuganov, and Seleznyov all
expressed their support for the creation of a Russia-Belarus-
Yugoslav Federation. Seselj received strong applause for his
anti-NATO and anti-Western tirades while addressing the Duma on
the final day of his visit. Commenting on the visit for BK-TV in
Belgrade, Seselj said that, "certain Western states are openly
hostile to us, particularly the USA and Great Britain," whose
goal is to "destroy our people and seize our territory." Seselj
made it clear that the proposed alliance would be designed to
politically and militarily counterbalance the West.

Seselj succeeded in gaining the support of a number of prominent
Russian leaders for a creation of a union of Slavic nations.
State Duma Chairman Gennady Seleznyov suggested that the next
meeting of the Russia-Belarus Parliamentary Assembly may decide
to grant permanent observer status to Yugoslavia. "The three
countries may sign an interstate agreement and then discuss
possible joint management of some affairs," Seleznyov said. He
went on to say that Russia is sympathetic with Serbian efforts to
prevent the disintegration of Yugoslavia. "Attempts to destroy
Serbia will continue. There is a desire to blow up Kosovo.
Montenegro is beginning to think of seceding from Yugoslavia.
Such attempts are undermining the country with which we have been
historically connected," Seleznyov said. The Duma speaker also
expressed his view that the idea of a Slavic union is becoming
increasingly popular in the region. According to Seleznyov,
Bulgaria is also currently considering the Slavic alliance
concept.

To promote his idea of Yugoslavia joining the Russia-Belarus
Federation, Seselj met on November 5 with Russian Communist Party
leader Gennady Zyuganov, who commented, "The idea of Serbia
joining the union of Russia and Belarus expressed during the
recent session of the parliamentary assembly of the union in
Belarus was very interesting. We have been expressing it for a
long time and believe that it can be carried out." In an
interview with the Russian news agency Interfax, Zyuganov said
that the Communist Party and its supporters "will do their utmost
to support Yugoslavia at this exceptionally difficult time."
Zyuganov added that, although the plan to establish the Russia-
Belarus-Yugoslavia union may at first appear infeasible, it
could, in fact, be carried out. As an example that such a
revolutionary idea, greeted initially with considerable
skepticism, could actually materialize, Zyuganov gave the example
of European integration and its perception after World War II.

As the leader of radical Serbian nationalists, Seselj had planned
his visit to Russia well, appealing to as many influential
political and even religious leaders as possible. His talks with
the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Alexei II were of special
significance. If the union between Russia, Belarus, and
Yugoslavia is to materialize, the Orthodox Christian church could
play a major role by pointing to the historical and religious
integrity of Slavic nations. The Orthodox Christian church has
been supportive in the past of a peaceful resolution of the
Kosovo problem, denouncing the U.S. threat to launch an attack on
Serbia. This offered the Serb nationalists a good starting point
for discussing the idea of a pan-Slavic union with the church.
The outcome of the talks held between Seselj's delegation and
Alexei II were not made public, however, and no official
statements regarding this issue have been released by the
Orthodox Christian church.

The support Seselj received from Russian nationalists and
communists for his proposal comes as no great surprise. Only a
few Russian politicians, including the chairman of the State Duma
Committee on International Affairs, Vladimir Lukin, expressed
skepticism about the feasibility of such a plan. This reflects
the fact that Russia is currently caught between two potential
futures  a return to communism and extreme nationalism on the
one hand, or total chaos and, eventually, military rule on the
other. The fact that even previously moderate and pro-reform
figures such as Yuri Luzhkov have now shifted their position
toward a more extreme form of nationalism suggests that the first
scenario is already taking place. After an hour-long meeting
with Seselj, Luzhkov told Interfax, "Any action against Belgrade
would therefore be an action against Russia and Belarus."
Luzhkov further encouraged the Serbian delegation by saying that,
"Although a typhoon of counteraction is bound to break out as a
result of this union, this is the correct direction along which
we must move." Luzhkov also said he would soon visit Minsk to
debate the union concept with Belarussian President Alexander
Lukashenko.

In his address to the Duma on November 6, Seselj called on other
"brotherly" countries, including Armenia, Greece, Cyprus,
Georgia, Kazakhstan, Romania, and Bulgaria, to join the new
alliance to "counterbalance the forces of NATO and the European
Union." Clearly, the Serbian nationalists are assuming that
Russia's historical allies and those nations in need a strong
ally in possible future conflicts may consider supporting the
idea of an anti-NATO alliance and, eventually, join it. Although
the unification of ( mostly ) Slavic states may appear to be a
fantasy of desperate nationalistic forces in Russia and Eastern
Europe, militarily and politically this concept may make sense to
the parties involved.

For example, although Yugoslavia shares no borders with either
Russia or Belarus, if Yugoslavia were to become a member of a
Russia-Belarus-Yugoslavia federation, then Russia could station
forces on Serbian and Montenegrin territory. This would
significantly constrain NATO's ability to intervene in ethnic
conflicts in Yugoslavia without risking a major military conflict
involving Russia. Russian troops in Yugoslavia would also
contribute to Russia's goal of blocking NATO's expansion into
Eastern Europe and limiting its geographic influence. While the
critical weak point in an expanded NATO's front line -- Slovakia
-- may now be remedied, a Russian deployment in Serbia would once
again make defending Hungary a nightmare.

Moscow has already begun to readjust its defensive posture for a
more explicit confrontation with NATO, recently stepping up its
military relations with Belarus in an effort to limit NATO's
eastward expansion. Russian press agencies RIA and Itar-Tass
quoted Colonel-General Yury Balyuevsky as saying that Russia has
lately re-deployed its troops along Belarus' western borders, a
statement later denied by the Defense Ministry. Russia's arms
sales to and defense cooperation with Greece and Cyprus, while
not likely to lead to their joining the union, still effectively
undermines U.S. and NATO interests by fueling the long-running
Greek-Turkish confrontation. Again, while perhaps not ready to
join a formal union, Armenia has largely aligned itself with
Russia, and remains in simmering confrontation with growing U.S.
ally Azerbaijan. Through Armenia, and possibly Georgia, Russia
can exert a strong influence on events in the Black Sea and in
the Kurdish area of Turkey, Iraq, and Iran. Turkey has even
alleged that Russia is harboring the leader of the rebel PKK in
Moscow. Finally, Russia still maintains a major political and
military presence throughout Central Asia. After Ukraine,
however, which is sliding inexorably toward Russia anyway,
Yugoslavia would be a prize jewel.

While at first glance a radical idea, incorporating Yugoslavia in
some way in the Russian-Belarus union makes sense. It offers
Yugoslavia a weighty shield against U.S. or NATO aggression, and
it gives Russia an inexpensive but very powerful lever with which
to disrupt NATO expansion. Top that all off with pandering to
the nationalist turned pan-Slavic crowd in both countries and you
have a deal. If it was just Ilyukhin or Zhirinovsky, the
perennial Russian lunatics, warming to this proposal, we'd be
inclined to discount it. But with Zyuganov, Seleznyov, and
Luzhkov on board, Western planners should seriously begin
considering the repercussions of a more substantial Russia-
Belarus-Yugoslavia alliance.

Bears will have some explaining to do if the current stock-market rally achieves new record highs. As of Friday, the Dow Industrial Average had recovered four-fifths of the nearly 2,000 points it lost during the hellish slide that occurred between July 20 and October 8. Some gloomy seers, including this one, saw the October 8 turnaround coming, but most of us expected stocks to plummet anew shortly thereafter. Instead, the Dow Industrials and other widely followed indices trampolined off the October 8 bottom and have just kept on going. Now the blue chip average sits within 400 points of its all-time high, having achieved gains in seventeen of the last twenty-one trading sessions -- one of them a 331-point stunner a few weeks ago. Even more impressive has been the performance of the tech-heavy Nasdaq 100 index, which includes such bellwethers as Microsoft, Intel, Cisco, Dell and Yahoo. It is currently around 1458, a mere 8 points, or 0.5%, below July's all-time peak. Not surprisingly, bear-baiting has been reinstated as the favorite pastime on CNBC, and the hubris surrounding a prospective Dow 10,000 is once again becoming clamorous. As a case-hardened bear, I'll be the first to admit that it is not altogether unreasonable for bulls to think the worst is over, and that October's lows may have been the juiciest buying opportunity investors will see for a long time.

http://www.golden-eagle.com/gold_digest_98/ackerman110998.html

Zundel could be discussed.

for a politician ..
.. always had a clear head ..

In Alexander's day ( and Alexander was a wise boy, learned well from Philip ) The objective was *not* to kill the defeated King or commander- but to get him to yield. The Greek word was Hesateos: to cede, or be beaten but not surrender.

This was quite a showy ritual with the beaten commander throwing himself to the ground. Then the victor would place his foot on the back of the guy's neck and "nick" him with the tip of his sword. Thus, ceremoniously displaying his largess, allow the loosing king to rise and give him back his command and make him governor over the same territory as before but with a heavy spoils penalty and yearly tribute due in taxes thereafter.

I think Alexander knew he didn't want the job of appointing an unwelcome and ineffective Governor over a strange land and language- when the real goal all along had been riches and resources and an enlarged territory to wage further campaigns.

Of course every once in a while, especially if it was a repeat uprising, Alexander would chop off the guy's head, but far better to leave behind a content population paying tribute- then 100,000 new enemies. yes?

I think the logic of war has not changed that much from his day.

Good night all.

to cyclist ..
seems a long time since an assassination of a major
world leader .. have you done any cyclical analysis
on this ... are'nt we DUE ??

Oh yes .. Gen'ral Mo ..
I can come up with 5000 milti-farting Tutzis for
the pee-in.. it'll give my front lawn a break too.

As I see it: We have the Dell numbers Thursday, the Intel analyst love-in Friday, and then we have the FOMC rigmeisters' get-together next Tuesday. There is a lot of news in here, but it wouldn't surprise me if we are very close to seeing the best we are going to see before we head right back down the shoot. Action is very frayed in Asia, and Brazil is moving backward. I think the whole thing is going to come unstuck here fairly soon. Obviously that is the real world and that doesn't matter on Wall Street, where all we are doing is betting on our favorite nag at the racetrack.

http://www.stocksite.com/features/contrarian/rap/

Please pardon my ignorance, I am more of a learner/lurker than a participant on this forum so I don't say much, hope to someday be able to contribute to those of you who have helped me learn. ( Too many names to mention, and want to avoid leaving any names out ) I see newscasters from time to time refer to these ailing economies as recessions. At what point is a line drawn in the sand that states a country is experiencing a depression as opposed to a recession? Is this a varying opinion or is there a rule defining the difference in economics? Or is this decision made by the mysterious "they say it's a recession" board of members? Or do talking heads never use the "D" word on TV?

South Korea....recession or depression?
Russia....recession or depression?
Japan....recession or depression?
Brazil....recession or depression?

BTW. I lose again tomorrow on options expiry with a 305 call on December Gold. Any suggestions on how to play that one out should something big happen tomorrow?

@Obsidian Very interesting post.

@Disney Have Studio bring the Tutzi back with him. You have hit on a use for them.

-2qtrs recession

-4qtrs depression ( consecutive )

I could be wrong.

negative GNP. Frankly I am not sure when it officially becomes a depression.

RECESSION: Downturn in economic activity, defined by many economists as at least two consecutive quarters of decline in a country's gross domestic product.

DEPRESSION: Economic condition characterized by falling prices, reduced purcashing power, an excess of supply over demand, rising unemployment, accumulating inventories, deflation, plant contraction, public fear and caution, and a general decrease in business activity. The Great Depression of the 1930s, centered in the United States and Europe, had worldwide repercussions.

Source: Barron's Finance & Investment Handbook 4th Edition

Welcome to the club, thanks for posting *smile*.

Market mania probably caused by all that IMF loan money finding a roost for awhile.

Given that definition of Depression ( capital "D" as some say here ) , I think it's a little early to put Japan in there. That definition has a few points to watch for, kinda like signs that Revelations is coming to pass *grin*.

Falling prices: Yep
Reduced purchasing power: Yep ( note the purchase of neg yield bonds )
Excess of supply over demand: Yep ( consumer spending plummeted )
Rising unemployment: No doubt about that one.
Accumulating inventories: I'm not sure about this one
Deflation: Probably
Plant contraction: Real estate markets are certainly trashed, so probably
Public fear and caution: Yep
General decrease in business activity: Yep

I dunno if that puts Japan in a Depression or not, but if they aren't in one, they could be. All it would take is for them to lose their largest export market and that'd be the end of it. She better hope the US stays above water for the long term until she gets her act together.

I hope SDRer notes and addresses your penetrating observation on the implications of the surrender of gold to the ECB by member nations.

I would also expect the European national gold holders to be jealous of their gold. I know I am.

WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- The International Monetary Fund and Brazil wrapped up details Thursday of a long-expected $42 billion rescue package designed to prevent the financial turmoil that has swept Asia and Russia from reaching Latin America. An IMF official said he could not confirm the exact amount of the bailout because details still were being worked out. ``This is not a done deal,'' said the spokesman, who spoke on condition he not be identified. But he said $42 billion was close to the total amount of the package needed by Latin America's largest economy. An announcement could come as early as Friday. The IMF and the world's wealthy nations led by the United States provided the package to Brazilian President Fernando Enrique Cardoso to support his austerity plan of tax increases and spending cuts aimed at saving $23.5 billion so he can avert a devaluation of the country's currency, the real.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpne0p.htm

Envy -- The next time you see Japan Inc. out of depression will be after they write off all their bad loans and put themselves on a gold type standard. That's the only 'credit' they'll have left. Same with any country. Anybody who thinks the bad times are over in Japan better think back to basics. NOTHING has been resolved there! And there aren't enough consumers in the world to pull them out of debt, much less ALL the countries in the same kind of debt!!! Governments HAVE to STOP borrowing from banks and paying usury to do so. Why can't they learn that if they can borrow, they can print and NOT pay usury forever...

They are all Corporations. Government fiat credit paper feeders. None of them can appear in a court except by attorney.

So, it appears to be purely ROR's selfish self-interest that prevents him from joining my call to abolish the corporation and prohibit legal representation for reward.

A people of a state in the exercise of their natural rights have not the power to grant the power to create a corporation in a state constitution. You cannot grant what you do not have and the right to create a corporation does not exist in natural law or as a natural Right of Man.

The existence of the corporation in American law is a usurpation of the attorneys, by the attorneys, and for the attorneys.

A depression is when you lose yours:- ) )

Actually, I shouldn't limit the borrowing from only banks. No Nation should need go into debt to anyone as long as that Nation retains the right to 'coin money and regulate the value therof'.

And that's exactly what it will be-a contribution. We will never get a penny back. Here we are 500 bil+ in debt & we're contributing 3 times as much as Switzerland.

Our corrupt, stupid bureaucrats/politicians are determined to destroy what's left of our economy & nothing can stop them.

FWIW one, two three days for gold and than Monday it will slide
quickly to kill the exuberance for ten days.We could see 292
back unless we taking a giant leap.
Hmmm didn't they say an analyst tells you something you already know,
it must be confusing.
John Disney
I will get back to you with my assassination cycle of VIPs

For Thursday 12 Nov calculated from data published in Today's FT.
Period------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month
$LIBOR--------------5.28--------------5.41-------------5.19-----------------5.09

Mean GoldLR------4.64---------------4.29-------------3.86-----------------3.49
Gold Lease Rate---0.64---------------1.12-------------1.33-----------------1.60
( Change ) ----- ( + 0.02 ) ------- ( - 0.02 ) ------ ( + 0.01 ) ----------- ( + 0.03 )

Silver Lend Rate----4.10--------------3.35-------------2.50-----------------2.30
Silver Lease Rate---1.18--------------2.06--------------2.69-----------------2.79
( Change ) -------- ( 0.00 ) -------- ( 0.00 ) ------- ( - 0.05 ) ---------- ( - 0.10 )
Lease Rate equals $LIBOR minus Lending Rate
Mean Gold Lending Rates and Silver Lending Rates are supplied to the FT by NM Rothschild.
( Change ) = change in lease rates since previous day.

http://business-times.asia1.com.sg/5/nsing01.html

hmmm....quiet this morning on the kitco front.

mortgagees feeling the pinch? in an Asian tiger economy? hmmmm....

You Goldbugs Really Make Me Sick.....

10.00 I tell ya ....10.00...

Now sell everything......

Sell Sell Sell....

One zero zero zero zero.............

Gold is worthless..........

Gold is evil............

Gold is not patriotic...........

Gold hates you.............

Kill Gold.........

Kill Kill Kill.....Gold

death of "one country, two systems"
http://www.scmp.com/news/template/Front-Template.idc?artid=19981113004601033?=front&template=Default.htx&maxfieldsize=2355

other bearish news on HK
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/news/business_story.html?in_review_id=91370

Cyclist, I would be much less skeptical of this gold rally if it were not happening right at option expiration of gold and silver options. In Gold where do you suppose the price would close to render the most options worthless - $300???? We'll probably see another $299.90 close.

Today's action did much to help the technical picture in the metals from the XAU to Platinum things are looking much better. Gosh I see a head and sholders bottom formation in gold with a projection of $304.

I suspect that when if ever the gold market gets going I will be under invested or less than fully invested. I've been burned repeatedly following these "breakouts", to the point where they should be meaningless to me at this point. The only profitable time to buy the metals and thier shares seems to be when they have fallen, not rallied. ( That's the rocket scientest in me making that original observation ) However the minor uptrends don't last long enough. The next one will be diffferent, of course - that'll be the one I'm not stoked up on and it will extend beyond everybody's expectation. Maybe.

Unless something has changed all these rallies will have run there course by Friday's close and be cycling down on Monday.

at that price, please pass me all the gold you have. greatly appreciated. :- )

Where's the DOW going?
http://www.iqc.com/chart/default.asp?db=&w=600.=180&time=week&chart=bar&chart1=bb&i0=1&i1=3&i2=0&i3=0&s=log&symbol=%24INDU

Well a little peek at the chart may well give you an indication. Then look at the pattern made in '96, and this could
very well be a repeat of that, and then where do we go from there, well your guess is as good as anyone's, no?

Have been reading, often, about governments, and IMF bailouts, and how bad this is as it's "our tax monies",
which of course is partly true, but look at the trillions and zillions that have been spent by the same people for
over 1/2 a century, putting everyone and everything into hock, so what's a few million going to hurt, to keep
the party going until the last drunk has left, or slept it off on the floor???

Don't be upset with the spenders, it's their job, and they're doing it well!!!

Ten Ten Ten ....Evermore I tell ya..10.00

Today is FRIDAY the 13th........
It should only be good for all!!
Buy Gold, it's good for you!!!
Have a good one!!!!

Gold Going To 10.00...

All Central banks are to announce Gold sales Tamarro....

Yes........Every central bank in the world will announce it has sold

or will sell all of its gold tamorro........

Look out below.......

http://www.scdut.com/ao/aaa.html - scdut@worldnet.fr

Headline ( Routers )

The Central Bank of Samalia has decided to sell

ALL of its gold.................

It only had one ton..........

But Barrick Gold Figured it was worth the pay-out for the announcment...

Cabal Cabal...where is my camal........

Always appreciate you comments. I have a professional bear frame of reference but I see the formation of a massive double ( maybe to be a triple ) top? I have been thinking of sending a few more bucks off to Rydex Ursa and your chart may have just done the trick. I know, you have a hold harmless ;- )

The Central Bank of The British Virgin Islands

Has sold all of its gold today...........

They had two tons........

10.00 I tell ya...10.00

The Central Bank of Granada..has sold all of its gold....

They only had three tons but.....

10.00 I tell ya ...10.00...............

South Africans making up for lost ground. Latest price takes average back to 50 day moving average.

Reify - couldn't pull up your IQC referenced URL. I have been having problems with that site. I expect I have to upgrade my brouser and get java. Have any thoughts.???

Where did you come from??? What is your point??? Noise!!

White Noise-Pink Noise--Gold Noise

What's the dif?

Comex Whorehouse Stocks at all time high........

Gold is everywhere I look...

Yes because I say it is so.........

Indeedy weedy weedy......

Forgot to take his medicine! ;- )

Millennium bugs a transport system

A furore has erupted over Victoria's $332 million computerised transport fare collection system after a report tabled in State Parliament revealed that the system is not year-2000 compliant.

"Onelink's position is that year 2000 compliance is not within its final commissioning obligations and it, therefore, does not feel bound to include this additional requirement within the existing contractual arrangements," it said.

Asked why the Government had not insisted on 2000 compliance as part of its contract with Onelink, he said: "This is an issue that's only crept up on us in the last couple of years. Nobody had heard of the year 2000 problem in 1994."

-----------------
Surprised no comments.
http://www.basicint.org/y2krept.htm
The Bug in the Bomb

---------------------
Dabchick
I don't know whether you saw this.
Many thanks for your help.
I'll keep updating it each weekend.

1, 3, 6 & 12 month gold lease rates
http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Charts/Goldlease.jpg

299.90 at the close? Maybe, but options expiry is an hour before the close. A lot can happen in an hour.

Hi Jim!

I always enjoy your posts......

I noticed your discussion of whether or not the "breakout is for real"....it would be nice if it is..........but does it really matter?

Gold & the mining stocks appear to be bottoming......assuming that they are "somewhere near the bottom"......then the next MAJOR move will hopefully move up......if this is true.........then does it matter if the breakout is today, tomorrow, or January 98? Not if we use this period to accumulate shares in mining cos we like......& then it does break out for real.

Good luck to all,

THC

changed...education...down the tanker...dependence on foreign oil...nothing has changed...peace in the ME...nothing has changed...and Americans glady hand over their cash to a government that has contantly said it was going to be smaller and we have the abortion known as the Federal government...Americans are funding the death of their own rights and freedoms...everybody jokes that we all know that politicians are liars...yet we let the liars run the government...the UN has done nothing for the world...Americans continue to fund it...it goes on and on and on and Americans fund all of it...

I'm in doubt to the direction of the markets, but not the swing.
http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Charts/DowSwingLT.jpg

If you go back and have a look at April '97 you'll notice that the swing tops out half way up the leg.
Going back prior this happens also.
The oscillator is a accumulation distribution indicator.
After the initial accumulation ( the strong up move on the indicator )
You then have distribution as the shares then change from hand to hand.
During this phase the oscillator oscillates in a downward direction.
Then when it has warn out it cycle it has a strong up tick which is the key to picking the failure of the rally.

Currently it is trending down which we can see reflected in the markets slightly.
If we are in a bear then I would expect the markets to sell off now.
But if we are in a bull then I would expect that the markets will not drop much and when the swing bottoms and turns upwards then the upleg within the markets will keep on going higher.

My confusion is are we in a bear or a bull?
And I feel that the reaction that the markets show in this swing down cycle will confirm the case.

Gold has broken the 220 day MA. Let's see it hold it now.


Try this one:
http://www.coe.uncc.edu/~hphillip/fu1htm.html

I have watched this for a few months and they are great short term trend followers. This research came out of Duke University. Check it out. The just went short on the general stock market, and are not yet long golds.

http://www.marketwatch.newsalert.com/bin/story?StoryId=CnKU80b8ZseThnZeXmdu&FQ=v%25reuter&Title=Headlines%20for%3A%20v%25reuter%0A

Last I heard the US was years behind in paying fo its "share" of the UN . Did Washington pay up recently?

I have just returned home after a most splendid evening in the presence of the man yclept Au_Producer.
Au_Producer, a sometime poster on kitco, is the real McCoy, a gold miner. 'member them? Au_Producer's Alaskan claim can only be worked a few months of the year, he likes to spend a couple of months in Noo zeelund each year too, and can show me places I never knew existed.

Anyhoo, he says Hi to John DIsney, and passes his regards to all his kitco buddies.

He is most pleased, he said to meet two kitocovites, that's crusty & mois, in two different continents in the same year. Reckons it's probably a first. I reckon he's probably right. For me, I'd like to meet Crusty, and the Nicks, and a whole bunch of the Knuks ( rhymes with ?? ) and mercans who post hereabouts.

I learned much about gold mining a placer claim tonight, induddy. And I learn much from being at kitco.

Au_Producer and aurator agree on many things: that the Noo Zilund women are the best in the world; that gold is undervalued; that friendship and family are of paramount importance, and this is a fine place, this kitco.

Thanks to all who have made it so, and thanks to Bart for providing the sandpit.

as there would be no UN without the US...certainly nothing with teeth in its illegal operations worldwide...which I do not condone...the ultimate group of stuffed shirts spending everyone else's money and taking more from the world than they give...

http://www.globalpolicy.org/finance/docs/usbudget.htm

http://home.on.rogers.wave.ca/eliza/newswave/disdues.htm#kurtis

Latest London Bullion Fixings

Gold AM Fixing ( 13 Nov 1998 ) : 178.049 Pounds Sterling
Gold AM Fixing ( 13 Nov 1998 ) : 297.200 US Dollars

Gold PM Fixing ( 12 Nov 1998 ) : 177.529 Pounds Sterling
Gold PM Fixing ( 12 Nov 1998 ) : 294.450 US Dollars

Silver Fixing ( 12 Nov 1998 ) : 3.0081 Pounds Sterling
Silver Fixing ( 12 Nov 1998 ) : 4.9850 US Dollars

http://www.unausa.org/publications/usunfundfs.htm

tol1
the point, I think, that Selby was making, is that, according to press reports they get in Knada, and also that we get in Nu Sealan, the US is not paying for the UN, but, rather, the ROW ( Rest of the World ) is picking up the tab. At least, the claim is, that the US actually owes money to the UN. Ummmm like the US is a debtor to the UN. And, that should really get you and all merkans worried...The US is in debt to the UN.

If your creditors, the UN, decide to take out sanctions ( ie engage in economic warfare ) against the US. Wouldn't that be something?

A NZ hat manufacturer ( Hill's Hats -from memory ) used to supply all the blue berets of the UN. For reasons I've never been able to fathom, Hills Hats went bust a couple of years ago. Perhaps it was because the US didn't pony up the dough..

It may be ridiculous but last I heard it is true. Here is another view of Bills work with Iraq from the Land of Ice and Snow.

http://www.nationalpost.com/commentary.asp?f=981113/2014569

Woops actually a US view endorsed apparently by Kanaders's newest paper.

if I was not clear...fine...let all the UN and its members cut off the US...we can use the office/apartment space in Manhattan...very few things would make me happier than to see the UN cease to exist...

Regarding Iraq...I think the United States position is a sick, sick joke...no more...no less...The USA has seemingly learned nothing in all these years of meddling in ME affairs...nothing...with the exception of how to transport the bodies of our fine young men and women...

I have no doubt that only cost and inertia keep the UN in the US now. Whatever else they maybe they are not politically stupid and can see that being in the last remaining superpower's biggest city is not the place to be. Anyway its a good question until answered-- has the US paid its UN dues or is it the major cause for the UN debt?

For Salty ..
Please pass my salute to au producer..
we agree on many things ...

gold.....

http://www.digisys.net/futures/chart/ts_cha21.gif

gold in a channel.....awaiting her call....the years of
degredation weigh heavily upon her....she has given much...
much more than should have been asked of any noble one......
she knows of history...and knows patience will win the day.....
as it always has........

'if i have seen farther than others, it is because i have stood
on the shoulders of giants' sir isaac newton...

'the farther back you can look, the farther forward you can see'
winston churchill

look at the bohl site and weekly crude....look at what happened to crude
during the last gulf war.........yar....crude.to.the.moon.soon.....

cherokee!;..looking.back.to.see.forward...riding.with.some.big.dudes...

Cage Rattler, strange that you should remember the anniversary of Silkkwood's death. I remember going to the movie and coming out with a healthy disrespect for the powers that be. Actually I trusted those powers little before and none since. I agree with the thoughts on here that the UN is a pathetic organization which the USA supports and which doesn't have the huevos to act on anything. I like the base that gold is building. I wish it would built it more quickly but at least it isn't sinking to 250/ounce. Clinton is a fool; this little incursion into Iraq is going to teach him that you don't lie to a lier. He is going to have to do something and that something will probably sink his presidency; not that it shouldn't have already been sunk by occurances too numerous to mention. Saddam is a bigger slug than Clinton and probably a bigger lier, although that is up for debate. I just hate to see our boys in uniform killed to proove that Clinton is not afraid to fight, but only with other person's bodies. TGIF.

around the globe...We could call it Koffi's Kitchen...and all the waiters and the rest of the staff could wear berets...

bernatz....er.....john disney....

what's happenin' DUDE? give bernatz some respite...let
him out to play sa feller...know what i mean jellybean?

tol1
You may not wish the UN Building in NY. But having the UN Building in NY does not mean there would not be a UN without the US.
The building is unimportant compared to the tenticular ( is that a word? ) nature of the UN. Bland, Bureaucratic, Inept, Dangerous. But, what's even worse, it's the only thing we got.

Am in total and regrettable agreement with your para 2.

Nope, the word is tentacular. ( shoulda checked the dachshunnery )

fee being demanded...and I hope they do not...I think all the UN members and the staff, etc. should be sealed in the building from now until Y2K and let them out at midnight January1, 2000...yup...uh huh...they can have food, cable, etc. sorta like the eco-sphere meets the UN kinda concept...

Geez if the Y2K issue turns out to be 1/10th of what some think it will be NYC is the last place I'd want to be on Jan 1 2000.

for Cherokee ..
the word on the street ..
is that Bernatz has installed his mighty machine
in the Vatican
and will soon become
the World's richest ever
Shadow Pope..

He sends his Blessings

aurator-mate! Must be damn late where you live!

If the Fed has an anti-deflation rate target of 3.5% by the end of 1999, then six cuts of .25% can be made between now and then. A possible scenario is no rate cut next week but a .25% cut later this year, with three .25% cuts next year and one .5% cut next year.

One way to think of these cuts is as breaks in a the decceleration of the economy. The economy is slowing gradually now. The Fed thinks this is good. The Fed will want to prevent a rapid contraction -- recession -- since in a deflationary environment a recession can quickly deteriorate into a depression. Holding off rate cuts for evidence of more rapid contraction is a conservative policy that gives the Fed more flexibility later. If the Fed shoots their wad too soon, they may wind up causing the problem they are trying to avoid. And then there's the issue of Treasury selling pressures on rates. And also the stock market, way over-valued again.

I maintain that we'll not see cuts next week. Greenspan will assert his authority over policy independent of the wishes of bond traders and the equities markets.

-EJ

hep-rat...

your smell still lingers upon the aether in these confines...
your legacy of wet diapers, chewed-up pacifers, and medication
not taken, is known by all....

not to worry....i will change your diapers again...wipe your
snotty nose---in the cacti of the desert---and jack-slap the
frog outta you when i want....cause your here...it's fun....
and i can do it....now to the task at hand....where is your mommy?

cherokee!;..knowing.stinky.diaper.from.a.clean.one...

Crusty
I shall pass on your message. I hope to get away fishing for a few days soon with Au_producer. He leaves for his hideaway at first light... ( that's the GOLDen light of dawn )

Tol1
The spin on the news here is that the UN is a pawn of the US. Works for me....

LGB, Have you checked your pet SSC lately????
Your getting just like Puetz.

the US...but I can live with that disagreement...got office space where you live?

Fred
It's almost 02:00 Sat 14, and I can confidently advise all the triskaidekaphobes, that the world did not end on Fri 13.

nytolTeddo

EXACTLY!!!

all that glitters is not gold---after todays announcement that clean air may be on its way

details at http://www.pinnaclevrb.com.au

One German dealer said most COMEX options interest was around the $300.00 mark which corresponded to a spot price of $297.00, gold's opening level in Europe.

"Balanced against that is that the producers are raising their heads again. I think there will be producer selling from here on up," said the London dealer, who pegged resistance at $298.50 and $300.00 and support at $295.00 and $292.00.


http://www.marketwatch.newsalert.com/bin/story?StoryId=CnKU80b8ZtdeZmJG2ndi2&FQ=v%25reuter&Title=Headlines%20for%3A%20v%25reuter%0A

about where on the Globe are you?

all that glitters is not gold---after todays announcement that clean air may be on its way

details at http://www.pinnaclevrb.com.au

http://www.securitytrader.com/precmetals.htm

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/current/capitol.htx?source=htx/http2_mw

to the matter at hand the UN is run by the US and the US is run by polls...confusing huh...things are really quite simple...the whole Earth is like a tiny town...ya gots ya rich people earned or inherited...new or old...they are the pimps...then ya have ya politicians/lawyers/bankers and they are the whores...then ya gots ya clowns with guns...they is the law...and then ya have the cattle which are mistakenly desribed as the people...

from http://www.marketprojections.com

[December Gold]: ( close 2975, +38 )

Support: 2959, 2949, 2937, 2926, 2918, 2904, 2889, 2874, 2865, 2805.

Resistance: 2981, 2992, 3001, 3017, 3028, 3050, 3073.

Outlook: Nearby gold prices are expected to see a substantial rally, likely at least 90 dollars or so, from the 2730 low made in late August. Given Thursdays rally above 2961, a resumption of that larger advance appears to be underway from last weeks 2887 low.

Analysis: The preferred long term wave count considers a diagonal triangle wave c decline underway from the 5023 high of December 1987, with the decline from the 4167 high of February 1996 to the 2730 low of August 28 the third wave of the diagonal. A subsequent fourth wave advance should be a corrective type pattern, must reach at least 3258, will most likely be a series of zigzags lasting a year or so, and will probably be something on the order of the 90 dollar advance seen in the second wave of the diagonal. Shorter term, it now appears that an initial five-wave advance in the December contract was traced out from the 2755 low of August 28 to 3056 on October 2, with the action from the 2863 low of September 9 to that high an extended fifth wave in the form of a diagonal triangle. The subsequent three-wave decline from 3056 to last weeks 2887 low thus appears to be a second wave ( or wave b ) that will be followed by a continuing advance to at least 3188, and possibly to near 3370 ( which would be 1.618 times the length of the first rally as well as near the "head and shoulders" target that would be created with a close above 3050 ) . ( There is also a smaller head and shoulders bottom pattern forming the right shoulder of the larger one that was completed on Thursday and projects prices to 3030. ) The only concern at the moment ( until Thursdays 2982 high is exceeded ) is the fact that Thursday marked the same 54 trading days from the August 28 low that the August 28 low was from the June 15 low for a possible low-to-low-to-high count. ( A decline larger than $3.10 that crosses over last weeks 2960 high would leave just a three-wave rally in place from last weeks low and would call for a further decline carrying at least below 2929. )

[December Silver]: ( close 5133, +133 )

Support: 5085, 5035, 4975, 4930, 4895, 4860, 4820, 4770, 4700, 4605, 4560, 4440, 4255, 4000, 3890.

Resistance: 5165, 5180, 5210, 5240, 5260, 5285, 5375, 5425.

Outlook: There remain potential lower downside targets at 4560 and near 4000. A decline to at least 4560 appears to be underway from the 5475 high of October 1. It remains the case, however, that if prices take out the 4670 low of August 31, they will display the minimum wave structure for a completed corrective decline from the 7200 high of last February.

Analysis: On the December daily chart, there is a "head and shoulders" target near 3890 created by the May 12 close below the "neckline" of that pattern ( with 3998 the price at which a decline from the April high would equal 1.618 times the decline from the February high to the March low ) . Prices gapped down on July 30 to create a 6-day "island top" that projects prices to 4560. Prices still appear to be tracing out either a simple or double zigzag decline from the February high. In the first ( simple zigzag ) case, the decline from the 5890 July high to 4670 could be wave 3 of a diagonal triangle wave c and the rally from 4670 to 5475 a fourth wave, with the decline from 5475 a fifth wave that may complete near 4560. In the second ( double zigzag ) case, the decline to 4670 would be wave a of the second zigzag, with the rally to 5475 wave b and the decline from 5475 a wave c that would reach 4255 if equal to wave a ( under that scenario, wave c is probably taking the form of a diagonal triangle within which the first wave down was completed at 4675 on October 9, with the rally from 4675 still a possible second wave of the diagonal that will be followed by a third wave down halting above 4420 ) . ( With either of the above counts, it could also be the case that the rally from the 4765 low of October 9 is a leg of a contracting triangle from either the August or even the May low, in which case it could halt near the 5260 price at which it would equal .618 of the previous upleg. )

Randy Flink sent me this email yesterday...
Weatherman,

I just received a call from David Tice, Investment Adviser to the Prudent Bear Fund ( BEARX, http://www.prudentbear.com/ ) . Mr. Tice was calling to inform me that he had just been interviewed by a Wall Street Journal ( WSJ ) reporter. The general question was Are we beginning to see a trend into precious metals investments due to Y2k concerns? Tice referred the reporter to me. I just spent 45 minutes on the phone highlighting the various Y2k investment rationales and strategies, including precious metals and their subtle nuances.

Now the punch line. The story is unlikely to run unless this reporter can find and interview MANY individual investors who are shifting assets into precious metals as part of a y2k investment strategy. Lets help her out.

Randy Flink
President, Championship Financial Advisors


// Y2k Weatherman Comments //
If you are reallocating your investments to precious metals due to Y2k and would be willing to give an interview to the WSJ email your ( 1 ) name, ( 2 ) city and state of residence, and ( 3 ) daytime phone number to:

mailto:y2kservices@championshipfinancial.com

Randys office will compile a list of potential interviewees and forward the information to the WSJ reporter. You will not be contacted by Randys office. Your information will be compiled and submitted to the reporter. You must include your phone number so the reporter can contact you directly. Please do this today. This is a great opportunity to wake people up to Y2k preparedness.
The Y2k Weatherman
1998 by Y2kWatch.com

FWIW, Want to know why you are wringing your hands due to unfathonable circumstances? If you do not want to know, do not listen to what David Icke has to say. Do you believe the media is manipulative and that we are constantly fed disinformation for nefarious purposes? Do you also believe that there is a cabal of a very few to which we are slaves? We are all conditioned by forces from the day of our birth to believe that 2+2 = 5 and or gold is dead. ( Solely for conspiracy buffs, or those that dare to be different and believe in the truth. )

You will need RealAudio

Wens nite/Thurs am-11/11/98
slide button to hour 2:00 and listen till end of program


http://ww2.broadcast.com/artbell/archive98.html#nov98

from: http://www.marketprojections.com
User: hixson
Password: thmetal

http://commerce.marketprojections.com:443/comod/wkly/gold.gif
http://commerce.marketprojections.com:443/comod/gifs/gold.gif
http://commerce.marketprojections.com:443/comod/wkly/silver.gif
http://commerce.marketprojections.com:443/comod/gifs/silver.gif
http://commerce.marketprojections.com:443/comod/wkly/platinum.gif
http://commerce.marketprojections.com:443/comod/gifs/platinum.gif

from: http://home.att.net/~vorcycles/

http://home.att.net/~vorcycles/golde.htm

23 and I sell ABX

Cool. I'm all over it. Thx.
-EJ

http://www.bloomberg.com/news2.cgi?T=news2_ft_topww.ht&s=36843082

Dell stock goes down in European trading ( hehe )

http://www.bloomberg.com/news2.cgi?T=news2_ft_topww.ht&s=36830292

Russian debt defaults expected ... do i hear that train coming? hmm...

If any Attorney General is determined to protect a sitting
president from investigation there is little that Congress
or federal law enforcement agencies can do. --New York
Times

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with
the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free
state. --Thomas Jefferson



http://www.Federalist.com

http://www.midam.com/ecb/md3dxkz8.htm
http://www.midam.com/ecb/md3dxyz8.htm

Brother, I really liked your nice piece of humor in
regard to how to get rid of Uncle Boris...

Last Saturday at 10:18 I said.........
'On Friday ( 6th Nov ) the Index regained the safety of the 68 - 70 trading range, and it did so in a way that gives me grounds for optimism. On Tuesday ( 3rd Nov ) the Dabchick Gold Index gapped down, and on Wednesday it gapped back up again, leaving behind it a clearcut one - day island.
Furthermore, after consolidating on Thursday 5th Nov ) , the Index gapped up once again into the 68 - 70 safety zone. This second gap up mirrors another gap down made on Monday, thus creating a Monday to Thursday 4-day island which contains within it the 1-day Tuesday island.
This pattern is beginning to look very similar to the previous major low of Aug-Sept 1992. On that occasion there was also a 1-day island at the bottom ( touching 66.7 and closing at 66.9 on 2nd Sept 1992 ) . That 1-day island in 1992 was contained within an 11-day island with the gaps at 68.2 . Those two islands were, in turn, contained within a 1-month island with the gaps at 69.5.
For the action of the last 4 weeks to become completely similar to 1992's bottom we now need to see this week's two islands contained within a 4 - to - 5 week island which would be made by a gap up at 70.4 Let's hope it happens next week.'

I'm glad to say that this weeks action so far has produced an uncannily accurate repeat of the Aug-Sep 1992 bottom. Yesterday's gap up produced a 5-week island containing the 4-day island, which in turn contains last week's 1-day Tuesday island.

In 1992/3 we saw a steady, albeit limited, climb to the 74.00 Index level. At that level I'm afraid it got stuck for 6 Months.
Then Jimmy Goldsmith had lunch at the Ritz with George Soros in the last week of April 93, and George bought Jimmy's Newmont stake while they consumed their Crepes Suzette ( = pancakes in flaming brandy ) , a dish guaranteed to attract attention when the chef produces 5-foot flames in the middle of a crowded restaurant.
Having bought Jimmy's Newmont stake, George evidently then manipulated the Gold options markets to drive up the value of his Newmont stake. Within 12 weeks the gold index went up 25% to touch 92.0 on Monday 2nd August 1993. Taking profits then drove the Index back down to the April level ( 74.0 ) within 5 weeks. The inevitable Camp Followers then did their work allowing George to get another 25% by Christmas.

Today conditions are similar insofar as the Dollar seems set for a fall like 1993. Thus a 25% repeat rise in the Index could produce, say, a 40% rise in the dollar price of gold. ( Which is what most people price it in, don't you know ) . $300 x 1.4 = $420.
At the moment, today's London am fix has generated an Index which currently stands at 71.00 , having produced another gap overnight. It is therefore safely above the support at 70.0 .

If the PPT don't bring out the big guns this afternoon ( after the London close ) then you could say they might have given up trying.
Regards............Dabchick

A poll commissioned by Canada's industry department suggests most Canadians are not worried by the Millennium Bug.

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/world/111298/world1_28034.html

Will they now change from net short to net long in Europe? Was the announcement of expanded reserves a coincidence?

XAU-XEU
http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Charts/xau-xeu.gif

FWIW 300puts going to be in the waste basket

I meant not "to kill King" - it may indeed be not useful,
I meant to "kill MILITARY commander", Saddam happens to be
both of them...Don't know rules of ancient war, which
Alex the Great practiced, but later it was a common practice
in the field to hit commanding officer first - you know, in
later wars commanding officers even started wearing plain
soldiers uniforms...

Not to distract from your important message tolerant1; but it is my great pleasure to inform you that we, the brotherhood of Kitco, are already famous due to our world-wide escapades and associations of the last 2 1/2 years. This, in spite of our many disagreements and spats.
"Confidence, like art, never comes from having all the answers; it comes from being open to all the questions." ---Earl Gray Stevans

FWIW bonds will be getting smaller,128 stop,get ready for 124.

In regard to this allience idea - I do no know what
to say, let me think for a while...

http://www.rit.edu/~cyberwww/8.htm Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

http://www.commonreader.com/7/7206.html

got imagination?

the tea fella...?...

In Japan overnight
Platinum holding onto reccent gains
Likewise also indeedy silver and gold

This is good, yes?

http://www.wired.com/braintennis/97/04/bt0a.html

the Physicist?

does anyone know what direction and what time ( evening or morning ) to look from the US East Coast?? and ..er ..GO GOLF...

run up to 355 area! Let's hope it regains that ground today!

http://www.bishop.hawaii.org/bishop/planet/sw1198.html

What is Kishka?

You know from Haggis? Well, this ain't it. In the old days they would take intestine and stuff it. Today we stuff parchment paper with carrots, celery, onions, flour, spices, and cholent ( see below ) and let it cook for 24 hours until there is no chance whatsoever that there is any nutritional value left.

Cholent

This carrier of noxious gases is a unique combination of beans, barley, potatoes, bones, and/or meat which is meant to stick to your ribs and anything else it comes into contact with. At a fancy Mexican restaurant someone heard this comment from a youngster who had just had his first taste of frijoles: "What! Do they serve leftover cholent here too?!"

Printed it out...could be a "good" show...tnx..

http://www.astro.washington.edu/balick/leonids98.html

'Twas beautiful there the last couple of weeks, especially this time of year.

Even found a coin dealer who had Platinum Eagles. I like buying from small & reputable dealers. It's well worth the added premium not to have to listen to sales pitches...

Military Ops Tempo is picking up all over the place. ( Business really picks up for late night food delivery services near military bases. ) Plans have Clinton going to Malaysia soon. Hmmmm... wasn't he out of town last time they launched Tomahawks at the "bad guys" in Afghanistan and the civilian aspirin factory? And when France even endorses action, well it must be getting serious....

George and Jimmy were not paying attention when they went to finishing school....business should not be discussed until after the crepes have been consumed and the 2nd cup of cofee is served. P.S. nice analytical piece..regards

cherokee - The original catchy phrase used in England in the early part of the 19th century was "Does your mother know your out?" This knowledge I garnered from aurator's magnanimous gift which he sent me, the book, 'Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds' by Charles Mackay written in 1841. This volume gives the history of such manias as the South Sea Bubble, the Mississippi scheme and the the Tulip Bulb mania. Not only did aurator send this copy as a present to me but he donated a copy for the best 'golden speech' given at the first informal Kitcoite dinner ever held which was in Toronto on July 31st 1998, followed very shortly by the second in Long Island, New York in August 1998. I still have the $30. worth of used New Zealand stamps that it took to send these two books from New Zealand. ( Selby )

I have noticed that the generally tight bid/ask prices in Toronto vanish at 9:00 am every day. Go to Yahoo quotes and check GSC.TO SWG.TO and RPD.TO. The normal bid/ask prices have been replaced with bogus ones to fool small investors who naively call their brokers to buy at the market. Always name your price on shares that trade thinly. The marketmakers are crooks.

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/current/bonds.htx?source=htx/http2_mw

Even tea would not sit well in my stomach this morn - if you know what I mean. ;- )

http://www.marketwatch.newsalert.com/bin/story?StoryId=CnKU80b8Zv0fumda2mJy0&FQ=v%25reuter&Title=Headlines%20for%3A%20v%25reuter%0A

http://www.marketwatch.newsalert.com/bin/story?StoryId=CnKU80b8ZtJeZmZi1mdGW&FQ=v%25reuter&Title=Headlines%20for%3A%20v%25reuter%0A

the smell of panic is in the air...

http://www.marketwatch.newsalert.com/bin/story?StoryId=CnKU80b8ZtJeZmZi1mdGW&FQ=v%25reuter&Title=Headlines%20for%3A%20v%25reuter%0A

FWIW - EJ - I agree!
Date: Fri Nov 13 1998 07:39
EJ ( Pondering rate cuts ) ID#45173:

With gold's potential I cannot see an investment in platinum.

hope ya feel better...mentally and or physically...

FWIW looking good : )

09:26 WHITE HOUSE CONFIRMS CLINTON TRIP TO ASIA IS STILL ON.

investment...I prefer physical in platinum, but there are many other vehicles, but I think it is an excellent way to protect wealth...diversify...it never hurt anyone...

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/nation/111398/nationt_22542.html

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/nation/111398/nationt_22542.html

Boorstin does think a lot about the present and he is highly conflicted. On the one hand, he celebrates innovation and progress. On the other hand, as he wrote in "The Image," he worries about innovation and progress -- the proliferation of products and technology. He sees this as both cause and effect of what's wrong today: mass conformity, mass confusion, a world transformed from experience to pseudo-experience.

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/nation/111398/nationt_22542.html

Grandpa Boris is already gone,two weeks ago he was written out of the cartoon 'Rugrats',never to appear on a Nickelodeon cartoon again.The Anti-Defamation League of B'nai Brith ( ADL ) deemed his character on the cartoon 'Rugrats' to be anti-semetic and the parent co. of Nickelodeon agreed to sensor out the character of Grandpa Boris.

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/politics/111398/politics33_22327.html

An astute, if not downright brilliant, insight. Well worth some serious rummaging about ( which shall be done ) . It would certainly explain some heretofore perplexing threads! Thanks for sharing your very clear thinking.

My kids love Rugrats, so I can't help but see it. For Grandpa Boris to be written out on an "anti-semetic" basis is really far fetched.

We are a thin-skinned bunch in this world. Are people looking for excuses to feel sorry for themselves or what?

http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-11/11/009l-111198-idx.html

Yes, Pt has been hot here in Japan the past few days:

http://www2q.meshnet.or.jp/~fugo/grph/pp13_0.html

Breaking out of the bottom area of 1201 - 1300??? I hope so.......we did our part here......now it's time for you to whip up the $$ price!

Bring the $$ price down & we are range bound again.

Check this out:

http://sakimono.com/tech/graph/platinum_ag.htm

The 2nd graph is the yen Pt price vs. the number of net buyers on the exchange.......net buyers from 1450 or so & down..........

THC

FWIW Back on the saddle 23 1/4 ,stop 22 3/4

I wonder if we bought the recently announced 'ADL internet hate filter' if it would also bar any Grandpa Boris web sites?


Maybe I'll check at: http://www.adl.org

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/politics/111398/politics33_22327.html

So much for Bill Clinton's true legacy. Buy gold and silver, since fiat money is now on its last legs. Is it just me, or anyone else notice the new 20's look and feel like food coupons? Besides, the Eurodollar will be the new fiat paper money on the block within weeks. There are numerous trends nibbling away at the US dollar once the Euro is introduced. Even Castro wants to use the Euro as a means of getting back at the United States. And so my President has left his true legacy: a debased American nation, people, and economy ready for blending into the global megablob state. Except Bubba isn't my President and we'll see what happens to the New World Order in 1999.

Here is the link to the shelving of Grandpa Boris ( and so close to the holidays ) .

http://www.adl.org/presrele/dirab_41/3274_41.html

here is the correct Boris link:

http://www.adl.org/presrele/mise_00/3256_00.html

I'm looking at pure evil. She's fully aware that, even as she lies, Iraqi children are dying because of USG genocidal policies.

look at my television...see M. Dimwit and the MUTE letters on the screen...yup...the woman is an embarrassment..to say the least...on MSNBC...Must Sell Nation on Bill Clinton network...

Did you receive CD yet?

Silver follows etc. Base metals need to firm for gold to make a sustained move.

Durban Roodepoort Deep has announced that it is seeking to acquire the Sydney-based Emperor Mines Limited, which owns and operates the Vatukoula gold mine in Fiji.

Some of Emperors management had publicly alleged earlier this week that DRD was attempting to take over the company by stealth. Mike Prinsloo, DROOY managing director, says these allegations were without foundation, but an offer to minorities would in any event serve to alleviate any reasonable concerns Emperors management might have.

DROOYs press release of only hours ago, an open letter to Emperor shareholders seeking their support and yesterdays press report are all published in full at http://www.drd.co.za/.

yes and THANK YOU MUCH...email me... tolerant1@msn.com my mochine committed computercide and I lost email contacts...sorry if you missed my Public Notice about that...

All: Something odd is up. Kenneth Starr refuses to testify about anything except in reference to what he has already submitted to the Hyde impeachment committee, and for obvious reasons, Hyde is reluctant to focus on distasteful MonicaGate when so much smoke is out there on other matters. This is a real impasse. What happens if we have impeachment proceedings but there is nothing to discuss? At this rate any really damaging evidence will come out after WJC retires from public office.

http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm

This worries me. I can only surmise that Kenneth Starr has been ordered not to discuss matters 'still in investigation' by that Judicial panel that tells him what to do. Are KS's 'advisors' hoping they can go through the impeachment process without bringing up any new dirt 'because it might be damaging to the morale of the country'?

The real truth might be more subtle than this:

1 ) The 'powers that be' might be afraid WJC will smear everyone with dirt from his FBI files data. Alen Specter fears something.

2 ) Criminal proceedings against the president might embarrass many individuals, since both Dems and Republicans would get egg on their face -- even without WJC actively slinging dirt.

3 ) The Kenneth Star investigation is 'still moving forward' but is not allowed to release new and damaging information because it might trigger a crash in the stock markets and subsequently the economy.

I find it ludicrous that our Attorney General is moving forward at a snail's pace on the campaigngate issues -- and congress has not put her feet in the fire. I know at the very least Congress can censure her -- I think they can fire her if they have a majority, IMHO. Perhaps she needs to be 'impeached' or whatever it is called for obstructing justice.

Tolerant1: I found that NYTimes article you quoted intriguing. Apparently

Congress is supposed to roll over if the Attorney General refuses to investigate her boss. This would not have happened in the Nixon years. Have our honest leaders lost all of their ability to fight the dishonest ones? Is this the end of the American Democratic system? Are we finally crossing the Rubicon, like so many democracies before us? I feel like Diogenes looking for an honest man -- or in this case, a leader that will stand up for what is right, even if it is unpleasant.

Do we have noone left in Congress/Justice/? with any backbone? At least the Supreme Court is showing some spirit.

children dead due to hand guns but fund the starvation and death of children worldwide...hypocrites...but boy o boy they do luv that oil...addiction and hypocisy...yowzer...

And the best part...it ALL boils down to INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY...yup...uh huh...

Hillary Clintler starring in Don't cry for me America coming to a State run theatre near you soon...

FWIW Stop tightened to 23

by...and of the Government...make no mistake about it...the Clintlers believe in totalitarian state rule...I say F...em...and feed em a fish head...

is generally considered to be a positive,by analysts,
because of the fovourable oz./ton ratio as well as giving
them a foothold in Australia.Anyone with any particular
insights???

sure would like to know what there thinking on the floor?

All: People like Matt Drudge put MonicaGate on the web when the National Media killed the story. I guess we must wait until something really damaging leaks out.

Don't all of you get the feeling that even Kenneth Starr's investigation is being very carefully orchestrated in relation to news releases? We are not just talking about the WJC crowd, but another group of individuals as well.

Am I the only one that believes the truth must come out even if it is damaging for many people? The truth always comes out anyway, and I don't mean when we go visit St. Peter. Before that.

JTF -- Starr has always been one of their 'in-the-pocket' boyz. Did you really expect anything different? This is the 'new' era where everything is controlled. The crash, when it comes, is to further the reach of the chains.

It takes a corrupt, oppresive regime to carry out genocidal policies in many villages.

http://www.supertraderalmanac.com/TotW/updated_19981112.htm

take the en off golden and it will take you to the articles if you have not seen them...hope it helps...

Although it pains us to say it, Durban Deep ( symbol DROOY ) should probably be sold at this point, especially if it cannot hold above $3/share. The runup in price this stock experienced over the past two months was nothing less than meteoric, and perhaps it was too much too soon. The last several trading sessions have shown an extremely bearish-looking pattern in which prices fell out of a contracting triangle chart pattern. If the recent highs in this stock of $3.75/share are penetrated, consider this stock a buy. Otherwise, avoid it for now.

http://www.golden-eagle.com/gold_digest_98/droke110398.html


- The profit potential is HUGE. My good friend Jim Blanchard in his "Gold Newsletter" mentions 2400% profit potential. Jim called me the other day, and I told him that was REAL LOW. This share with a gold price of $500 plus could easy be in the hundreds of dollars. Reason- the whole world is used to makin money in the STOCK market. Well, when the FAT LADY SINGS and she is singin NOW and all them PO BOYS start lookin for safety and they want to make money they will turn to gold shares, the whole gold share market is less them HALF the value of EXXON stock. Now for you "A" students that potential is HUGE!


http://www.golden-eagle.com/editorials_98/demoss110198.html

http://angelfire.com/tx/eyman/

another PDG trade that would have been well in the money. Funny, though, how my losing trades go through instantly.

Here is my email address again..........dang 'putas... eblm@cwix.com

You can mail me anytime to tell me what you REALLY think of the Clinton's and this current admin. ( and don't sugar coat it this time ) ;- ) AGULP to ya.......btw, when in St Thomas a few weeks back I stumbled onto this signed, dated, waxed, etc. bottle of Jose's PRIVATE reserve specially packed in it's own intricately carved box. It was GOLDen and they wanted a small fortune ( in gold? ) for it. oh hell, It now sits in my liquor cabinet justa waitin'........in it's box.........waxed up...............and smilin at me every time I open the cabinet....................yummy, hmmmmmmmm when to drink this GOLDen nectar.............decisions...

go golf!

away....to gaze at Jos



Crystal Ball - how are them AOL puts doin?? o-u-c-h...eh? ( jest teasin' ) ...you top searchin fella you.... ( were you jest kiddin with us and you really didn't buy 'em? ) .........hope so.

FWIW sold 23 3/16,gold is getting sloppy

but, we have you slated for an address before the Million Man PeeOns, April 19 in dc......in or out? yes/no?

I totally agree with your take on TD's Webroker. I gave up on it months ago. I get out of the internet when I want to male a trade and use their Micromax. Anyone know of a reliable and quick Canadian web trading site?

Sincere as we are in viewing the misery of many children in the world, it is my opinion that most of their suffering occures because of local ( ethnic and political ) wars and the abandonement of families by their fathers, for whatever reasons.

Iraq is run by murderers. They are not unique in this regard. Saddam Hussien is MORE than willing to crucify his people for the sake of his power madness. Having witnessed a video of people impaling themselves through the abdomen with swords in front of his cadre in order to 'prove' their loyalty ( and garner a payoff ) . The beastiality of these people is beyond imagination.

There is a context here. Iraq is not being whipped by some nasty, menacing brute. They are the ones who started this and they can end it by rejoining the nations of this world in some marginal form of civility. If Iraqi children suffer then it is strictly because the Iraqi government is willing to suffocate them under its own self interest. Such big men they are!

Mind you, Iraq has bio, chemical and soon nuclear weapons. What in hell do you think it will cost the the world to 'neutralize' this threat if they EVER develop the capability to throw this stuff outside of their boarders? Pay me now or pay me later.

Responsibility; Something everyone must practice for the children's sake if for no other reason.

Thanks for the comments Re. Durban.Have not been following
the progress of this company for long but have seen quite
a number of positive references.I thought that with a runup
in the POG that it might do very well.However I do have
respect for your opinion.

count me in Studio............I kin werk up a goodun.....

away......to go long sparkletts

teethfloating

go gold.

I like the idea of drooy pullin back......I'll be ready this time. Missed it last time.......but it won't happen again.....uh uh. It doubles I sell half and w/w.......ohmy ( ! ) it's easy right?? ( grin ) ...

Frustrated - To answer your question, I think we are in the beginning of a wave c correction which could last a few days or a few weeks. The over all correction range looks to be bounded by 87 - 65. If you are not in at all I'd scale in anytime the XAU trades under 70 or buy in if closes any day above 87 on good volume. If you are in I would just wait it out. The longer this wave 2 consolidation takes the larger the advance of wave 3. Short term I sold out of my fidelity gold fund the first hour this morning and shorted dec silver at 5.13 yesterday.

Why does gold have to wait for base metals to strenghten?...When copper was going thru the roof ( ie: $1.42/lb ) nobody stopped to look around at what gold was doing...and to make things worse, as I see it, copper will eventually settle at about $.50/lb or lower over the next few years...by the way...this is below production costs in most cases...I'm not trying to be critical, just need to know why you feel this way?

Eldorado: I was hoping for more 'self-cleansing' action from our government than what we have had so far. The Nixon years look good by comparison, because the key participants in the impeachment process had integrity. Our Democratic system worked. Now we are the frog being slowly cooked. Begin with our most vulnerable rights first, and then work up the amendment list. Just think about what WJC has done with womens rights. Now it is ok to treat all of them as sex objects in the workplace.

Now, it seems that only the Supreme Court is working. Perhaps I am expecting things to work more rapidly then they are -- but I doubt it.

Sadly, I think you are right. That lawsuit in Chicago against the small weapons firms apparently is not going to be contested, although even I ( non-lawyer ) can see it flies in the face of our consitutional right to bear arms -- and when ( rarely ) necessary overthrow the government. That amendment was put there for a reason -- by some very wise people who knew better than our current leaders. There is something to be said for first hand experience, as they had all left tyannical Europe for the freedom of the 'New World'.

And I am a pacifist ( of sorts ) since I am reluctant to carry weapons. I firmly believe in the preservation/protection of lives, not taking them. But I will defend myself and my family if I must -- with weapons, if necessary. Intelligent life is the most precious thing in the Universe -- no one has the right to take it away. No one. I will certainly not let anyone take my life without a fight to the finish, if that is what it takes. I guess I make a funny Quaker pacifist -- I will not take that last step of turning the other cheek.

It is ludicrous to conclude that punishing the small weapons manufacturers will stop criminals from buying guns. Know any criminals that register their guns with the FBI?

Our law enforcement officials -- the local ones I know I respect -- will always be one step behind the criminals -- so why not find some other way of going after them than punishing everyone else?

Makes me think the 'crazy years' that Heinlein wrote about are upon us.

What next -- our freedom of speech?

I wonder, something like this happened worldwide in the 30's. Are we repeating the cycle? How long must we wait before the concept of individual right is reborn? Let's not wait too long or the system will be broken.

knowing full well that one more is exactly one more than that which is acceptable......

http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/TDM-10.html

shame on us.

I find your reflections very creative and logical.

If the nation states need money from the ECB, it seems quite logical that they have to secure such a loan by an asset. What esle than gold could that be in the long run?

Your conclusion, if so, the European countries will have a strong interest in a very high price of gold is completely right, not to say "wonderful".

I'm too much of a goldbug to be able to put any intellectual resistance up against your thoughts. I like it and I want it to be true!

But we need input from real sceptical spirits in this matter! Best would be some thoughts from emotionally corrupted short sellers.

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/issues/9811/albright.html

Was not able to make the link to the URL given in 11:37 post.
2400 % increase in what??

Scotia Discount Brokers web site is reliable, but can be slow.

Friday November 13, 11:30 am Eastern Time
Note: this article has a followup with more information.

Rubin-Up To $5 Bln Of Brazil Pact To Come From Us Exchange Stabilization
Fund

and we shall be free......and you shall be me, and I thee. salud!!!
four dead in O-h-i-O
more dead in w-a-c-O
still more in O-k-c,O....

I wish I was back on campus...and they don't. studio.found.black.arm.band uh oh.

yep. we are dropping our shorts on that one. Grease the stick.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981113/tq.html

Thanks for the advise, I went back in yesterday with about half of my position and will look for the signals you suggested before investing the remainder. Congrats on your silver position, your short-term calls have been spectacular thus far.

FWIW 77.5 .8 support

StudioR-- almost cut my hair, happened just...

kiwi- ah yes, the ESF, where have I seen that before.

http://www.libertarianism.org/ex-7.html

http://citizensunited.org/cuf/cppr/hillary.html

http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/1995/sept95/ersept3.html

play money.

What about North Korea, Pakistan, India, China, etc. ? They all have WMD. What about the Israeli Genetic Bullet bio-weapon ? Maybe now targeting, not Arab genes, but anti-semite genes. Is that a WMD ?
Grow up and out of Propagandaville, The Empire, Zip Code USG.

If this were a free speech forum, we could discuss gold in connection with Uncle Boris Zundel. Who hates free speech & why ?

What would Joey do if he knew there was a conspiracy to have a Million Pee-In on the Mall ? Just a thought. BBML.

Here is more from the article:


Following are reasons I like DROOY:

- Huge gold reserves with a market values at only $2-$25 per ounce.

- These shares are like buying a call option on the gold price with NO expiration date. They should NOT be traded. Durban Deep is my largest share position and #1 gold play. Only I ain't PLAYIN, I am DEAD serious on makin MONEY!

- 800,000 ounce annual gold production, 42 million ounces in reserves - and growing every day. Furthermore, plans and actions are in place to increase production to over one million ounces by the year 2001.

- The profit potential is HUGE. My good friend Jim Blanchard in his "Gold Newsletter" mentions 2400% profit potential. Jim called me the other day, and I told him that was REAL LOW. This share with a gold price of $500 plus could easy be in the hundreds of dollars. Reason- the whole world is used to makin money in the STOCK market. Well, when the FAT LADY SINGS and she is singin NOW and all them PO BOYS start lookin for safety and they want to make money they will turn to gold shares, the whole gold share market is less them HALF the value of EXXON stock. Now for you "A" students that potential is HUGE!

- Roger Kebble ( Durban Chairman ) is one of the best miners in the world. He knows how to get the job done at the most reasonable price with the most efficient result. His son, Brett, is an attorney, an accountant and a FINANCIAL GENIUS. I TRUST my money with these guys! I have personally been to the DEPTHS of Durban Deep mine.

Now the name is misleading because much of the ore is on the SURFACE. Durban Deep today is comprised of many ( formerly ) separate mines under one management. It consists of surface operations, dump operations --where new technology is removing gold from formerly processed ore.

- Rand depreciation means huge profits for Durban Deep and other SA gold mines. Here is a very important point most people do not understand, but is a very important reason why you should own SA golds. When the Rand drops in value versus the US dollar or British /Sterling, it in effect lowers the production cost of the mines. You see expenses are paid in local currency, the Rand, but the product, GOLD is sold in foreign currency. When I was there, the miners were talking about the RAND falling to 10 to 1 to the dollar or 10 cents rather than the current 25 cents. They explained that every cent fall in the Rand, the more money ( PROFIT ) the mines made. Consequently production costs have declined to around $225 per ounce with the fall in the Rand.

- Durban Deep recently acquired the Crown Jewels property just south of Johannesburg. This adds HUGE potential to reserves. Also the richest gold deposits are located in the gold veins in the area south of the city. There are places that have proven 3-5 ounces of gold per ton of ore. These veins are usually very shallow and are only 6 to 12 inches thick but very RICH. I have walked down an incline shaft in this area to such a vein.

That is it in a nut shell. If you are serious about making money in this gold bull market, you should consider a position in Durban Deep for your portfolio.

http://www.golden-eagle.com/editorials_98/demoss110198.html

don't forget to take the en off of golden...good luck or just go to golden eagle web site and look for the article by demoss...

may the gods continue to bless you and yours.....you are a good man....and an exceptional representation of intelligent life. nuff said.

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME AN ELECTION WAS HELD IN IRAQ? You know full well that the innocent people can't get rid of Saddam. WHY DID'NT YOUR CHICKENSHIT GOV'T/MILITARY GET RID Of SADDAM IN 91? Either because it was'nt in their interest or they did'nt have the guts to take the casualties. Instead they chose to make 20 million innocent, powerless people suffer unimaginable privation. Does your gov't care about justice?
No, they are strictly motivated by selfish interests-mainly cheap oil

Many respected people have toured Iraqi hospitals & witnessed the dying children. But it does'nt get reported in your unbalanced corporate/gov't controlled media.

If you consider yourself to be a Christian & yet condone your Govt's inhumane, oppresive, genocidal policies. MAY YOU BURN IN HELL.

FWIW back in the saddle second time 22 15/16,stop 22 3/4

away eh...ahhhhhh...I bet you sleep better knowing it is there...good to hear you are well and enjoying life...email logged and saved...thank ya...yup...uh huh...

as if it were just yesterday........steve stills visits here somewhat frequently, next door neighbor is a good pal of his. helluva' guitar player and great guy with a stout attitude. salud!!!

The bank attributed the increased revenues to higher miscellaneous
income which came mainly from higher interest on silver and gold
deposits.

The bank said that the interest income comprised 81.6 percent of the
total revenues.

http://www3.techstocks.com/~wsapi/investor/reply-6403944

FWIW stopped out and standing aside and review next hour.

will not go through...will keep trying and or expect snail mail...Thanks once again...

If you read my silver and gold article in this month's
newsletter, you know why I tightened the protective stops for our
recommended core gold and silver shares. It's because gold isn't out of the woods yet ... and until it is, I believe all investors should exercise caution.

There are several factors converging that could push gold prices down over the next few months. But that does not rule out the
possibility of a strong rally first. Indeed, I've been expecting a
rally -- to the $315 level or higher -- and that has NOT changed. In fact, it may already be starting. As we go to press with this update, gold is up $2.50 and is challenging the minor resistance at the $295 level.

Meanwhile, it looks like the US is getting ready to bomb Saddam
Hussein. If that happens, it will provide the fuel for the gold rally I'm expecting. Still, unless gold can close solidly above the $335
level, it will not turn the corner to a full fledged bull market.
Bottom line: These are critical times for the gold market.

NERC'S Reliability Forecast for 2000
http://y2ktimebomb.com/PP/RC/dm9845.htm

Got your generators??

Can not believe the mega trouble that you go to in your response
in 12:42 post.Must be quick on the keyboard!!I do admit to being
at this point in somewhat of a quandry.Buy under 3 or sell
under 3?? Is this dude that wrote the article serious.You know
"if it sounds too good to be true".2400% with a POG of $500.
What about a price of 350??

mozel -- I don't hate free speech. Just have to realize that Bart's site is a gold and PM discussion site, at his expense. Now, I bet FreeRepublic discussion site wouldn't mind a bit!

http://pages.map.com/bkpowell/gregoryprotest.html

yes. followed by twenty mintes of......

http://www.slowriver.com/3/catalog/album/89.html

uhHuH....get the idea?

nazi regime that your gov't has mutated into, that I no longer want to set foot on U.S. soil.

Besides, I still have fond memories of D.C. that I would'nt want to ruin.
I was only there once, in 1960. I was on the first Cdn Navy Destroyer ( H.M.C.S. Terra Nova ) that sailed up the Potomac to D.C. 19 yrs old & met a girl from Pensylvania who worked for the gov't, the first night. Fond memories. I remember 4 of us going into a liquor store & buying 3 fifths of vodka for 9.99. Made several trips to that liquor store & partied non-stop for 10 days.

I was apolitical & not jaded & cynical. "Bring on those hazy, crazy days of summer" was the big hit. Days of innocence & hope & trust for the future. Unfortunately, gone, for me, & your Great Country.

for Alberich/SDRer
Yes I like the argument too .. But Im afraid of my
own bias .. Wonder what Glenn or RJ would say .. they
have less of a romantic commitment to Gold ( I suspect ) .

to General Mozel
.. If the million man pee-in also includes the multiple
fart-in .. I would like to apply for an up-wind position

To all Durban fans..
.. The entry to Australia/New Guinea would be
interesting ..
The RSA mines .. all of them .. have the best deep
level mining know-how in the world .. many of them
are curious about mining at depth in Australia ..
... new plans for deep mining are much less manpower
intensive than previously.. for example .. Avgold's
project for the Target field is something like
300 men .. ( I forget exactly ) .. so deep mining down
under could be economic even with Aussie wage levels
and productivity.

we'll turn 'er down to simmer for awhile...yes. G&P to YA!!!

I like BMO Investorline. Works fine for me...even if on a few occasions I had to use the phone.

Break em out peace pipe, scalps are about to fly!

will confirm breakout above of downtrend resistance.

300 is no longer a target as this was the downtrend resistance in late September, clearly the next resistance must be lower than this for it to be a downtrend.

stealth 3 year old great niece...I would say under $3.00 US is a solid buy on DD...but I would ask John Disney for a much more informed answer...yup...most certainly...

FWIW exited my short position

http://www.billdocigars.com/

FWIW time has squared the down move

Give the boys at Jefferson a call and I'm sure they'll be glad to mail you a free copy of the November 1998 Issue of Gold Newletter. I just got my second one in the mail today - they have used it as a mass mailer. Or, send me an email and I'll put my copy in the mail to you and you can read the whole works.

silverdolr@webtv.net

FWIW The lows should be had between 13.30 and 14.30.
77.80 could be the number.we'll see

DIA admits it could be grounded by Y2K woes
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/business/1113y2k1.shtml

As a result, the bond document warns that if any vital functions are not operating on Jan. 1, 2000, "the airport will not be able to operate, irrespective of whether or not the airport itself ultimately proves to be Year 2000 compliant."

I.O.W.........peace pipe is broken out and broken in...Iassure YA!!! salud!!! ( puff )

T#1.....billdos...isn't capitalism great? WoW!!!! ( another puff )

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=tglo&d=v1

FWIW well as a good sport I split the hour in half 22 5/8
stop is 22 3/8 third time a charm.: )

http://www.y2ktoday.com/modules/news/newsdetail.asp?id=520&feature=&type=
SINGAPORE, Nov 13 ( Reuters ) - Japan and Germany face huge fallout from the millennium bug time bomb ticking away in the world's computers, a top information technology analyst says.

 "We think they are the most exposed because they have particularly complex societies,'' Jim Duggan, a research director with U.S. high technology consultancy Gartner Group, told reporters on the sidelines of a millennium bug seminar in Singapore on Thursday.

 Power cuts, water stoppages, transport disruptions -- even minor food shortages -- as well as interruptions to government and financial services could all be triggered by a high dependency on electronic systems in both countries.

 "A lot of people who knew how to do things the old way have gone. They are much less resilient dealing with a problem of this nature,'' Duggan said.

 Gartner Group's global research ranks Japan and Germany as having a 50 percent chance of significant systems failure.

 The United States, Britain and Australia are among the best prepared, with a 15 percent chance of failure according to Gartner.

 Russia and China are the two countries facing the most widespread danger from the chaos which some expect on January 1, 2000 when many of the world's computers could start gushing out meaningless data, or simply stop working.

 The problem stems from programming short cuts taken decades ago to save computer memory when years were abbreviated to two digits, setting a time bomb ticking for the end of the century when clocks inside computers and embedded chips in many electronic devices will read a meaningless "00'' for 2000.


 Left unchecked, many public utilities, assembly lines, bank teller machines, traffic lights and other electronic systems might simply shut down.


 Gartner predicts two-thirds of firms in sectors like healthcare, education, construction and food processing were likely to face the failure of at least one critical processing function after January 1, 2000.


 Power, water, transport and law enforcement services face a 50 percent risk of disruption worldwide, according to Gartner.

 Other analysts say if five to 10 percent of the world's bank payments systems stopped working on January 1, 2000 it would cause a global liquidity crisis.

 Lawyers have estimated litigation costs could top US$$1 trillion as a result of the millennium bug.

 "What we're dealing with is the failure of critical systems that cause failures in the complex web of interdependent systems which we have come to rely on in our lives,'' Phil Dodd, Vice President, Year 2000 Programme, Asia and South Pacific Divisions of Unisys in Sydney said.

 "It will cost between US$300 billion and US$600 billion to fix the problem worldwide,'' Duggan said, warning it was futile to think it could be resolved in time to avoid failures.

 "You literally couldn't find all of the chips and you probably couldn't access them all in time now,'' he said.

 Although the picture looks bleak, both analysts say the world is not facing a doomsday scenario.

 Most problems will be minor and isolated, according to the Gartner research, while Dodd dismisses fears like planes plunging from the skies as scaremongering.

 "We should not underestimate the scale of the problem, but this is not a "sky is falling-in'' scenario,'' he said.

 "I have no qualms whatsoever about flying Qantas or Singapore Airlines or Malaysian Airlines or any other on that day. Planes are not going to fall from the sky. It simply won't happen,'' Dodd said.

sure ain't no shortage of sellers for the metals today.

Is there a rally? : )

force yet. I think the metals will close pretty close to flat today.
We'll have to wait till Monday for further direction in the PM's...

Latest London Bullion Fixings

Gold AM Fixing ( 13 Nov 1998 ) : 178.049 Pounds Sterling
Gold AM Fixing ( 13 Nov 1998 ) : 297.200 US Dollars

Gold PM Fixing ( 13 Nov 1998 ) : 178.546 Pounds Sterling
Gold PM Fixing ( 13 Nov 1998 ) : 297.100 US Dollars

Silver Fixing ( 13 Nov 1998 ) : 3.0731 Pounds Sterling
Silver Fixing ( 13 Nov 1998 ) : 5.1275 US Dollars

Interesting charts of the PT market you supplied much earlier. Seems corrective action set in on the 13th on the western side of the planet. The litle turn in the PGM metals looked pretty encouraging but was turned back pretty quickly.

More sideways consolidation at best. APH's XAU range of 65 to 87 looks to make sense to me - right now we are right in the middle.

Steam is building up

buckle up.

Reading Eur-lex on bond issue...Think Disney may have a very golden point! {:- ) )

NEM is starting to run

Just sent you some puppies ( ;^ ) ) ...check your email.

Am duely chastized by your invective. I never justify anyone or anything since this is always SELF-justification. God is the Judge and does judge completely impartially. Fortunately for ALL of us He is also merciful and gracious to all of us. Not one would stand before Him justified if we stood upon our own merits ( such as they are ) .

The US Government is only part of a body of nations which has been dealing with Iraq based upon its aggressive activities of the past. You can not deny this. Hopefully you can also agree that regardless of the nature of a particular government, that each government must, at its base, be of benefit to its citizenry. Each government has a responsibility to its people to do its best in governance, justice and security. This does not only apply to democraticly based countries.

Both Iran and Iraq are stained with centuries and millenia of bloodshed as they have stuggled against each other and those around them for dominance in their region. This is a historical fact. It will not go away. It is quite obvious that they have and will continue to brutalize their respective foes and their own people in these efforts on into the future. This behavior is indemic. The problem is that this struggle is now close to being multiplied by the exponential power of WMD, all of which is made possible by oil money.

Complain if you will about the mean old USofA or whatever other boogie you may wish to setup as the 'real problem'. The real problem is there and has been for a long, long time.

The US has a strategic interest in the region not only because of oil but also because of its role as the one remaining ( for now ) superpower who will be called upon to lead in halting violence in that region if it ever flashes over into a regional, multi-nation war. The USA has learned ( WWI&WWII ) that it can not sit at home ignoring wars abroad. It eventually will be dragged into armed conflicts one way or the other. Best to keep the pot watched and never to boil than to turn for a moment and to find a real fire in the kitchen. ( Then again one could always call upon the European Community .. they seem to have done a SPLENDID JOB of Yugoslovia .. hardly a backbone in all of Europe. )

You villify the USA. I suppose you would rather like to have a Stalinist USSR or a Maoist China or a Hitlerite Germany be the big boy on the block. Well, there are two things I can say to this. 1 ) The fact that you have not been dragged away by secret police for speaking 'against the state' is one proof that the USA still has a few redeeming qualities. 2 ) Most of the 'dissenters' under those systems are dead.

The USA is not a perfect or even near perfect nation. There are many areas in which we have done well and in which we have failed miserably. Presently it is my opinion that we are in a pretty bad state of affairs right now with the present degeneration into corruption. I believe we are heading for a great judgement from the hand of God Himself. If we survive it, I pray it will be as a more purified people and a more humble nation. But I fear our chastizement will be of the most severe and enduring kind. I grieve.

Your indignation may be justified. But somehow it seems to me that you are beating the wrong horse. IMHO. Possibly you have very high expectations of how a 'good' nation should behave. If so then at least you should act better than that. Wishing someone instant hell doesn't seem to fit that profile. Neither does insulting a person's level of maturity. In this case I am glad that neither of you is in much of a position of power for fear that your present stance is somewhat an indication of what lies within your hearts.

I do not in any way trivialize the desperate problems of the Iraqi or Iranian peoples ( nor of the Kurdish tribes that they have intended to destroy ) . My only question is "Who is REALLY doing this to them?".

meaning...It will be easier to pick me out of a crowd now...I will be the one with the stretch marks around my lips...

From the Toronto Sun

Hell no, we won't go

How silly and how hollow the phrases we in the media used to describe the 1991 Gulf war against
Iraq seem now.
Remember Saddam Hussein's promise that the war with his nation would be "the mother of all
battles?" We used that phrase 20 times in the Sun. Well, as it turned out, some mother, some
battle.
Iraq's inept and pathetic armed forces folded like an old dollar bill before the UN-endorsed and
American-led alliance.
Remember Saddam's "elite Republican guard" ( 29 references ) ? It was revealed as a paper tiger -
adequate for stomping out internal revolts by the Kurds and other Iraqi minorities, but nothing else.
And certainly no match for American, British, French and Arab might backed by countries such as
Canada, in a war which lasted a few days and killed 100,000 Iraqis while wounding 300,000
others.
Even so, that war was necessary. Iraq had invaded Kuwait, another sovereign state, and
threatened most of the world's oil supply.
That said, we see no such justification for this latest American-led buildup of military force against
Iraq - the second time this year alone. Once again, it is over the issue of Saddam's refusal to
co-operate with UN inspectors over the issue of Iraq's so-called ( here we go again ) "weapons of
mass destruction."
Last February, we all went through this charade - with many in the media pounding the war drums
even as they are now. In the end, Saddam backed down. How many more times can the U.S. cry
"wolf" about Iraq and still be taken seriously?
Iraq today is an economic basket case. Hundreds of thousands of its citizens have died of
starvation and disease due to the continuing sanctions imposed against it after the Gulf war.
At this point, we see no reason to support yet another call to arms against Iraq, even if the the
U.S. is backed by Britain and even if there turns out to be tacit support from the UN and Arab
nations.
As for any Canadian involvement, our questions remain the same as in February. What is the
purpose of an attack on Iraq?
What evidence is there that it poses a danger to Mideast security?
How would such an attack eliminate Iraq's so-called "weapons of mass destruction" and/or finally
rid the world of Saddam?
Failing satisfactory answers to these questions, we suggest Prime Minister Jean Chretien keep our
underfunded, beleaguered and already stretched-to-the-limit Canadian military out of harm's way.

That is a double edged sword. They could also lend gold, whatch speculators drive price down. Buy in at bottom. Wait for price to rise. And use proceeds to get more Euros. In a repetitive cycle. One day they will get burned.

FT Fri Nov 13 re-Dell Sales and profits boosted by demand from Asia
"Sales in the Asia-Pacific region, including Japan, were up 49 per cent."

for tolerant ..
You asked what I think of DDeeps .. I like it .. My
problem is that I like other stocks too.. I prefer
harmony at these prices .. Id take Deeps only if it sold
at about HALF the Harmony price .. Harmony have more
resources per share .. higher earnings per share and
lower costs per oz..
.. The stocks I really like now at the price are JCI-Gold
and CAM .. They are at monumental discounts to NAV ..
CAM has an NAV of about 1.7 rands and sells at 0.75.
.. JCI-gold has about the same discount ( it is Brett
Kebble' main gold vehicle - western Areas ) . I Hold
harmony, randfontein,st helena, anglogold and e-dagga,
jci-gold, CAM, and a bit of rangold .. I sold out all
Deeps plus all the options a while back..

and Clintler in a battle to the death...think of the Pay per View royalties...and then the cable rights for re-runs...kids toys at McDonalds...McClintler vs McSaddamaniac...the the movie rights and then the movie...Sandbox...

character of a nation's people and its government, particular as it comes to be expessed throught the vehicle of its leadership.
I do find it curious that Iraq's neighbors have been polled to determine if US action is supported. Most have Iraq as an enemy and if one wanted to bomb one's enemy into oblivion at no cost to to you wouldn't you support that? If Iraq claims they have folowed UN guidelines and now deserve to have at least some partial lifting of sanctions isn't there some documentation to support this? After all what have the UN inspection teams been doing all this time? I cannot recall a single news article that has said the inspection teams have discovered these weapons of mass destruction or biological agents. Yes they may resume to building them without ongoing inspections, but it seems to me Iraq is asking for a reasonable compromise, to reward what had been a good faith effort at compliance. IMHO one WJC has been quick to be hot headed, so now we have 2 of the world's madmen cursing one another with innocent lives wilting in the foul odor of their breath.

the explanation...and the on-going stream of info on SA golds...

According to their recent annual, Harmony has 15M ounces proven and 9M probable for a total P&P of 24M ounces. I think I have read much higher figures here... Cab you bring some light ?

there is a highly pertinent article from the Economist ( grain of salt required ) posted over at USAGold forum today, and ANOTHER's latest.

The euro introduction will shake up the international currency and commodity markets no end and the timing is not good considering the precipitous position of the US equity bubble. I think there is not a soul on this planet who can envisage how this may play out.

A drop of 50% in value of the US dollar is not unlikely and this movement may be quite rapid given the mobility of global capital. My opinion is that the introduction of the euro at this juncture greatly increases the likelihood of systemic failure in global capital markets.

The nation states of europe may not be aware of this but the BIS will politely suggest that they should maintain minimum gold reserves for their own good, ideed all central banks should know this. A breakdown of global capital markets will send gold skyrocketing which will be the only salvation for the world's central banks. This is why they hold gold in first place, although some may have forgotten this by now with their "revenue" bearing operations in gold loaning and trading eclipsing prudent traditions of guardianship of national treasures.

Rubin, Summers say U.S. economic growth on track

WASHINGTON, Nov 13 ( Reuters ) - U.S. Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and his deputy, Lawrence Summers, both said on Friday that the U.S. economy was basically solid and on track for further growth.

``My sense of it is that we're still very much on a track of solid growth and low inflation,'' Rubin said in response to a question about the U.S. economy during a news conference to discuss a multilateral aid package to Brazil.

Elaborating on the issue, Summers said: ``I think the basic momentum of expansion should be maintained with certain sectorial changes, as long as this financial crisis continues to remain contained in its impact.''

He added that responding effectively to the problems confronting the global economy was crucial to maintaining the health of the U.S. economy.

ANOTHER's warnings of a crash in the dollar are now being voiced by others. You bring up a good point, that the intro of the EURO could be the juggernaut that crashes the US Equities since they are denominated in US Dollars. My 401K is now in cash but I'm wondering if I should move it into the "International Equity Fund" before Jan 1, so as to purchase Europeon and Japanese Equities with US dollars before the dollar loses ground.

Allen:
I'm sure you are a good person and project your believe in the "good intentions" of your country. And without a real devil image, nobody would believe in these "good intentions" anyway. So we have the propaganda image of Saddam. And everything is justified.

What I do not understand at all is this: how can you suggest that it is Saddam's responsibility that this incredible terror of UN sanctions against the Iraqi people is in effect, supported by the USA and the traditional colonial suppressors from the U.K..

Do you really think these UN investigators would ever come to any result, when they havn't produced any tangible evidence in more than seven years.
Is it not enough that the IRAQI side showed patience for more than seven years?

Murderer or not: the UN sanctions are genocidal and when your much hated Saddam fights them he is the moral winner.

Nas has fired all their bullets, but he's still alive & pissed.
His claws glisten in the late autumn twilight & he's fixing to rip the faces off the dumb, delusional, bulls.

My father used to chastise me about my problem. "That money is just burning in your pockets." he'd say. For as fast as I would get it, I'd spend it. TGLO is where the burning pocket money is going today. Yesterday it was EWBX. Look at the two darlings of recent past Amazon and Yahoo. Down 5% each today. Like two dejected debutantes the day after, "Why won't he call?" is their plea. That burning pocket money will find a new mistress every day. One day it will find it's "old" girlfriend again. We can only wish...

I agree this stock bull is looking very toppy here. Already factored in is a rate cut of at least 0.5%, which won't happen. Sharp down day Tuesday, may get more than 500 points down next week if the avalanche builds up enough momentum.

Gold should be see-sawed accordingly.
Lots of shifty capital around now.

Although I don't doubt that you are a good man at heart, when you ask:
"who is really doing this to them?" you once again prove that you are incorrigibly brainwashed.

As I ponder the posts here today about how CB's may be asked to maintain gold in their Central Bank's and how they have found lending gold as a money making operation would be in direct conflict with the past...I find it interesting that for all the money that the Central Bank's have seemed to have "made"...I can't help think of the United Swiss Bank and its' recent $1 billion loss to its' favorite Hedge Fund LTCM....I can just see it now....a central banker riding the wave of "success" from his great new game of lending out his worthless asset ( gold ) ...until one day the game ends abruptly and he loses 10 times more than he gained...I can see him explaining his actions to the board of directors of the bank...."I was doing great right up to the point where they defaulted"!.....I wonder how many others will say the same thing this next year....and how many will once again understand why gold is supposed to sit in their vaults and not do anything except be there when they need it!!! As you can tell, I have no sympathy for ANY Central Bankers....I hope they all are disgraced!

EJ ( Headline Haiku ) ID#45173:
brazil drowns in debt ... imf to the rescue! ... throws brazil a noose -EJ
Well done, EJ!

At best we all end up using the information we have been allowed to see, whether that is in Iraq, Euroland, the USA or elsewhere. It has been fairly obvious from reports that I have seen that the Iraqi's have been playing a rather elaborate 'shell game' with the inspection team. And who would not, if one was so inclined? The UN sanctions are not genocidal. They provide for sales of oil to match the needs of public welfare in Iraq, as I understand it. Remember it was by concensus among the community of nations those seven years ago that the sanctions were developed and imposed. What is being done with this money? The innocents of Iraq would like to know.

It is the same in North Korea. Aid ends up going to the military first.

Alberich - as a European I assume that you are fully aware of the many ways that Europeans in leadership have shaped justifications for whatever was expediant at the time. England, France, Germany, Spain, et al were all colonial powers a few years ago. Slinging that 'colonial' label around at selected targets certainly carries its share of emotional baggage, doesn't it? Like a boomerange back at ya'.

I do not pretend to know the real story in all of its sordid details. Most of us will never know. I am affraid that we would not sleep very well if we did know. But I can be fairly certain of this one thing:

You will find out what cruelly is when Russia reasserts itself. And you will not have an America to call upon when that time comes. Not that I wish it upon you folks. I do not think you will reacll many of our short comings at that time.

~~~~~

I apologize for this digression. I am an American. My nation has done its share of wrongs, even possibly now. But those who cast stones should not live in glass houses. None of this is as simplistic as it seems.

CC is correct about Harmony. Where did you get your 70 million
ounce figure from? Off just a wee bit there.

That makes DROOY the beter buy, though I own some of both. Of course, none of them are doing that well of late.

Maybe next year.

Go gold. Thanks, GD

I concure with you. The end of this thread. As pertaining to 'brainwashed', well maybe. But you certainly are not in your humble opinion, eh? Its not as simplistic as it seems.

FWIW sold evened up,brokers won today

Actually, DROOY reports something like 17 Million but has another
20 Milllion oz but not economical utill gold is $400 so they don't
mention this in their reports very often. Probably the same with
HGMCY. They could have a lot of expensive oz. in the ground that at
these gold prices is meaningless.

I quess this is why NEM and ABX sell for a lot more. Lots of cheap
ounces.

Don't really know which is the best or rather which one the market will
favor the most. I suspect is won't matter much in the end whether you
make 1500% or 1600%.

But that will probably take a few years or so.

GD

The John Law Swindle

"This is the John Law swindle over again. The theft of Teapot Dome was trifling compared to
it. What King ever robbed his subject to such an extent as the Fed has robbed us? Is it any
wonder that there have been lately ninety cases of starvation in one of the New York
hospitals? Is there any wonder that the children are being abandoned?

"The government and the people of these United States have been swindled by swindlers
deluxe to whom the acquisition of American or a parcel of Fed Notes presented no more
difficulty than the drawing up of a worthless acceptance in a Country not subject to the laws
of these United States, by sharpers not subject to the jurisdiction of these United States,
sharpers with strong banking "fence" on this side of the water, a "fence" acting as a receiver of
a worthless paper coming from abroad, endorsing it and getting the currency out of the Fed for
it as quickly as possible exchanging that currency for gold and in turn transmitting the gold to
its foreign confederates.

http://www.tax-freedom.com/mcfadden.htm

Simple answer to the question: lift sanctions so long as inspections are unhampered. US does not want a simple solution, prefers hype and military push. Ask yourself Why.

( final mix ) the following advisory will never appear again........Donald Fagen, "the Nightfly" Warner Bros. 1982 ( should read 2008 ) .....miraculous work.

http://www.steelydan.com/nightflyrics.html

guaranteed by studio.r

NEW YORK ( November 12, 1998 9:15 p.m. EST
U.S. bankers have been mandated to set
up programs to monitor customers they suspect of illegal
activities such as money laundering and financing terrorism,
regulators said Thursday.

A proposal for the program, known as "Know Your Customer"
regulations, will be published in the Federal Register in the first
week of December, said Richard Small, the assistant director of
the Federal Reserve Board's division of banking supervision and regulation.

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/biz/111298/biz24_4465.html

I agree with you on the matter of their "fictional" 49% increase in Asia. You employ a term used by Samuel Taylor Coleridge, referring to the necessity of readers of literature to assume "a willing suspension of disbelief." I think Coleridge would apply it to quarterly statements thes days.

http://www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/news/international/1113/i_ap_1113_92.sml

Still wonder how much they're going to use in doing it.

http://www.polyconomics.com/

back 7 years...in addition I want to see comprehensive medical records in detail on every government employee...going back 7 years...

quick question on KITCO coins, are the prices/shipping a
good value as compared to other dealers?
TIA

hows about every 7th govie doing seven years?

Reify won't go for this at all, but I am posting it anyway.


T H E U N I T E D S T A T E S V S . I R A Q

A S T U D Y I N H Y P O C R I S Y

By William Blum*
Author of - Killing Hope: U.S. Military and
CIA Interventions Since World War II

"Far and away the best book on the topic" - Noam Chomsky
"I enjoyed it immensely" - Gore Vidal


"We have heard that a half million children have died," said
"60 Minutes" reporter Lesley Stahl, speaking of US sanctions
against Iraq. "I mean, that's more children than died in
Hiroshima. And -- and you know, is the price worth it?"
Her guest, in May 1996, U.N. Ambassador Madeleine Albright,
responded: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price --
we think the price is worth it."
Today, Secretary of State Albright travels around the world
to gather support for yet more bombing of Iraq. The price,
apparently, is still worth it. The price is of course being paid
solely by the Iraqi people -- a million or so men, women and
children, dead from the previous bombings and seven years of
sanctions. The plight of the living in Iraq, plagued by
malnutrition and a severe shortage of medicines, is as well
terrible to behold.
Their crime? They have a leader who refuses to cede all
sovereignty to the United States ( acting under its usual United
Nations cover ) which demands that every structure in Iraq,
including the presidential palaces, be available for
inspection for "weapons of mass destruction". After more than
six years of these inspections, and significant destruction of
stocks of forbidden chemical, biological, and nuclear weapon
material, as well as weapons research and development programs,
the UN team still refuses to certify that Iraq is clean enough.
Inasmuch as the country is larger than California, it's
understandable that the inspectors can not be certain that all
prohibited weapons have been uncovered. It's equally
understandable that Iraq claims that the United States can, and
will, continue to find some excuse not to give Iraq the
certification needed to end the sanctions. It can be said that
the United States has inflicted more vindictive punishment and
ostracism upon Iraq than upon Germany or Japan after World War 2.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"In the not too distant future, when Iran
begins to flex its muscles a bit more, in
ways not to Washington's pleasure, it may
then be their turn for some good ol'
American "diplomacy"."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Saddam Hussein regime must wonder at the high ( double )
standard set by Washington. Less than a year ago, the U.S.
Senate passed an act to implement the "Convention on the
Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling and Use
of Chemical Weapons and on Their Destruction" ( Short title:
Chemical Weapons Convention ) , an international treaty which has
been ratified by more than 100 nations in its five-year life.
The Senate act, Section 307, stipulates that "the President
may deny a request to inspect any facility in the United States
in cases where the President determines that the inspection may
pose a threat to the national security interests of the United
States." Saddam has asked for no more than this for Iraq.
Presumably, under the Senate act, the White House, Pentagon, etc.
would be off limits, as Saddam insists his presidential palaces
should be, as well as the military unit responsible for Saddam's
personal security, which an American colonel demanded to visit.
Section 303 further states that "Any objection by the
President to an individual serving as an inspector ... shall not
be reviewable in any court." Again, this echoes a repeated
complaint from the Iraqis -- a recent team of 16 inspectors
included 14 from the US and Britain, Saddam's two principal
adversaries, who are -- even as you read this -- busily planning
new bombing raids on Iraq. The team was led by a U.S. Marine
Corps captain, a veteran of the Gulf War, who has been accused of
spying by Iraq. But the Iraqis do not have a corresponding right
of exclusion. The same section of the Senate act provides,
moreover, that an FBI agent "accompanies each inspection team
visit".
The wishes of the Iraqi government to place certain sites
off limits and to have less partisan inspectors have been
dismissed out of hand by U.S. government spokespersons and the
American media. "What do they have to hide?" has been the
prevailing attitude.
The hypocrisy runs deeper yet. In his recent State of the
Union address, President Clinton, in the context of Iraq, spoke
of how we must "confront the new hazards of chemical and
biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and
organized criminals seeking to acquire them." He castigated
Saddam Hussein for "developing nuclear, chemical and biological
weapons" and called for strengthening the Biological Weapons
Convention. Who among his listeners knew, who among the media
reported, that the United States had been the supplier to Iraq of
much of the source biological materials Saddam's scientists would
require to create a biological warfare program?
According to a Senate Report of 1994: From 1985, if not
earlier, through 1989, a veritable witch's brew of biological
materials were exported to Iraq by private American suppliers
pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of
Commerce. Amongst these materials, which often produce slow and
agonizing deaths, were:
Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs,
brain, spinal cord and heart.
Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs.
Clotsridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing
systemic illness.
Clostridium tetani, highly toxigenic.
Also, Escherichia Coli ( E.Coli ) ; genetic materials; human
and bacterial DNA.
Dozens of other pathogenic biological agents were shipped to
Iraq during the 1980s. The Senate Report pointed out: "These
biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were
capable of reproduction."
The United Nations inspectors have uncovered evidence that
Iraq was conducting research on pathogen enhancement and
biological warfare-related stimulant research on many of the
identical types of biological agents shipped to the country from
the United States. These shipments continued to at least
November 28, 1989 despite the fact that Iraq had been reported
to be engaging in chemical warfare and possibly biological
warfare against Iranians, Kurds, and Shiites since the early 80s.
During the Iraq-Iran war of 1980-88, the United States gave
military aid and intelligence information to both sides, hoping
that each would inflict severe damage on the other, in line
perhaps with what Noam Chomsky has postulated:

It's been a leading, driving doctrine of U.S. foreign policy
since the 1940s that the vast and unparalleled energy
resources of the Gulf region will be effectively dominated
by the United States and its clients, and, crucially, that
no independent, indigenous force will be permitted to have a
substantial influence on the administration of oil
production and price.

Indeed, there is evidence that Washington encouraged Iraq to
attack Iran and ignite the war in the first place. This policy,
as well as financial considerations, were likely the motivating
forces behind providing Iraq with the biological materials.
( Iran was at that time regarded as the greater threat to the
seemingly always threatened U.S. national security. )
As the American public and media are being prepared to
accept and cheerlead the next bombing of the people of Iraq, the
stated rationale, the official party line, is that Iraq is an
"outlaw" state ( or "rogue" state, or "pariah" state -- the media
obediently repeats all the White House and State Department buzz
words ) , which is ignoring a United Nations Security Council
resolution. Israel, however, has ignored many such resolutions
without the U.S. bombing Tel Aviv, imposing sanctions, or even
cutting back military aid. But by some arcane ideological
alchemy, Israel is not deemed an "outlaw" state by Washington.
Neither does the United States regard itself so for turning its
back on a ruling of the U.N.'s World Court in 1984 to cease its
hostile military actions against Nicaragua, nor for the numerous
times the U.S. has totally ignored overwhelming General Assembly
resolutions, or for its repeated use of chemical and biological
agents against Cuba since the 1960s.
The bombing looks to be inevitable. The boys are busy
moving all their toys into position; they can already see the
battle decorations hanging from their chests. Of course, no one
knows what it will accomplish besides more death and destruction.
Saddam will remain in power. He'll be more stubborn than ever
about the inspections. There may be one consolation for the
Iraqi people. The Washington Post has reported that Secretary of
Defense William Cohen has indicated that "U.S. officials remain
wary of doing so much military damage to Iraq as to weaken its
regional role as a counterweight to Iran." In the not too
distant future, when Iran begins to flex its muscles a bit more,
in ways not to Washington's pleasure, it may then be their turn
for some good ol' American "diplomacy".

* William Blum is the author of: Killing Hope: U.S. Military
and CIA Interventions Since World War II. See:
http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm

Tolerant-Received Stealth reply of 13:26.Bought DD at $2.96 U.S
several weeks ago but was beginning wonder if this was the best
choice for a POG trip to wherever.Already have too many $$$$ in
PM mutuals.Must be patient, but with the mutuals it has been a long
one.However one must keep the faith!! It is good to keep it simple
( frequently is not ) buy under,sell over or run like hell.Thanks again.

Silverbaron-Too kind!! I think I shall take you up on the offer to mail
me a copy of the information on Durban.Excellent!!
One e-mail on the way.

if they run for public office and or work for the government I want to see everything...seein hows they work for and are doing the people's work as their gums keep flapping and telling every camera and microphone that gets near them...

and I am sure you will be happy with the results...yup...bbl...

I would like to have a custom figurine fabricated out of silver; does anybody have a source for this in the Toronto ( or Montreal ) area?

Pardon the post here -- I wudda posted next door but the jewellry forum is, to say the least, rather dead.

tyia,

sam_a.

All: Kenneth Starr is moving again. All is not lost. Apparently he worked out a deal with John Huang. And -- if I remember correctly, John Huang knows all about that fiasco with Commerce MissleSatGate and the Riadys. Tremendous security leak to China, right under the noses of CIA people, whose hands were apparently tied.

Things could be heating up again, and it seems that most of the action will be with Kenneth Starr -- indictments, etc. Then -- the Hyde committe will get to play their role.

http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19981113/V000435-111398-idx.html

Well - Perhaps the American Democratic system has not yet crossed the Rubicon after all.

I never thought Webster Hubbel was all that dumb and lazy as his former supporters said. After all, he was attorney general in Arakansas for years, and assistant attorney general under Janet Reno. Unfortunately, however, he will not be a willing witness. I think he is genuinely frightened of testifying against WJC. He is one of WJC's former inner circle who knows too much. They have a tendency to disappear if they show any sign of speaking out.

Interesting that John Huang is not afraid. Perhaps the Riadys are less dangerous than those shady supporters of WJC.

If I were a Communist party leader, I might encourage John Huang to testify. Then -- I would sit back and watch all the commotion. Really can't blame the Chinese leaders. We would do the same if some foreign leader offered to give all sorts of secret information without any risk at all -- for campaign contributions. Why bother with espionage, when you can just pay for it directly? No special training necessary.

What really irritates me is how hard our scientists worked on all of these secret satellite technologies. Now they have to work overtime to replace the technology secrets lost. Hard to do when the security leak is as big as a barn door. Hope it was all pre-y2k. Nice little self ingniting fuse there -- say -- perhaps we could arrange to mysteriously lose a few compromised satellites during the Leonid shower.

Clinton settles with Paula Jones for $850,000.

The chaos produced by the floating dollar was and remains immense. Just as we would expect more airplane crashes if there were no North Star by which to pinpoint latitude and
longitude, the absence of a U.S. fixed "symbol" of gold caused more financial crashes in the years since 1973 than the world has ever before experienced. We speak not only of
the collapse of financial institutions and enterprises in the absence of a fixed monetary standard, but also of the collapse of households and families by the tens, perhaps hundreds
of millions. In the absence of a monetary standard to fix the value of contracts between people, the linkages between debtors and creditors were loosened and so were the linkages
between effort and reward. As the value of money would change, debtors would lose in a deflation, creditors would lose in an inflation. Ordinary citizens, without any way of
knowing which way the value would turn, might adapt to an inflationary environment after suffering losses, only to then be hit with a deflation, suffering further losses. The most
powerful and influential men of wealth could play the speculative swings and become wealthier in the process, at the expense of ordinary people. Worse, they might use their
influence with government bureaucrats in the central bank to cause the inflation/deflation swings according to schedule. The Mexican peso crisis that still engages our attention
reveals for all to see the corruption of the international financial institutions -- the International Monetary Fund having evolved into the darkest of all. When the floating began, how
easy it was for the currency traders at the giant money-center banks in New York and London to infiltrate the IMF, to profit at the expense of the poorest people on earth. For the
past two decades, the IMF has roamed the earth like a black whale, feasting on the poor, developing nations, while the scavenger fish accompany it to feed themselves.

In this way, the bonds of trust are broken between a people and their government, and those at the bottom of the wealth ladder find the only way to get ahead is to cheat and steal
from those who have cheated and stolen from them through their influence in the halls of political power. We are well aware of the disintegration of morality in the Germany of the
1920s, when the life savings of all ordinary citizens were wiped out in the hyperinflation caused by the Versailles Treaty -- a treaty designed to crush the abilities of Germany to
wage war again. Hitler's fascism emerged out of this poisoned well.

http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/gp1.htm

the cost of an oz of gold in the ground at Harmony to be $US13.90 at
the present price of $4.89 per share. This is still a pretty cheap price
for gold. Their P/E multiple is about 6.67 assuming their
quarterly earnings of US0.18 per share are maintained. If memory
serves, this is about the PE ratio of the DOW during 1934. If its
any consolation, Harmony is unlikely to suffer much during a correction
of the DOW. Its already in a depression. My charts say it could
weaken to 4.10 or so this wave.

Here are some ticklers on DROOY from the web:

http://www.stockscape.com/newsletters/gold/perfect
.htm

http://www.stockscape.com/newsletters/gold/free980
417.htm

I've promised someone else that I would scan the
article on Monday and email it to them. If you
prefer this to snail mail, let me know.

silverdolr@webtv.net

Step l: Remove the turkey from the refrigerator
Step 2: Take a drink of whiskey ( scotch )
Step 3: Place the turkey in the oven
Step 4: Take two more drinks of whiskey
Step 5: Turn the oven on
Step 6: Take three more whiskeys of drink
Step 7: Set the degree at 375 ovens
Step 8: Take four whisks of drinky
Step 9: Turk the bastey
Step 10: Whiskey another bottle of get
Step 11: Stick a turkey in the thermometer
Step 12: Glass yourself a pour of whiskey
Step 13: Bake the whiskey for four hours
Step 14: Take the oven out of the turkey
Step 15: Floor the turkey up of the pick
Step 16: Turk the carvey
Step 17: Hands blood wash off; place aid-bands over
Step 18: Get yourself another scottle of botch
Step 19: Tet the sable an pour yourself a glass of turkey
Step 20: Bless the saying, pass and eat out

Synopsized, you are saying you think that sovereign USG is best qualified to provide adult supervision to the other sovereigns in the world. I hope you read the link posted on that so you will know who you are keeping company with.

@Eldorado You will never know the connections I see in the universe of gold because you forbid the use of telescopes in the study of it.

Talk about a winner, 'The Globe.com' IPO was priced at $9 and hit $97 today!
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/bs/story.html?s=v/nm/19981113/bs/theglobe_2.html

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/bs/story.html?s=v/nm/19981113/bs/theglobe_2.html

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/bs/story.html?s=v/nm/19981113/bs/theglobe_2.html

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/wr/story.html?s=v/nm/19981113/wr/globe_1.html

http://boards.fool.com/topboards.asp

click on the DELL message board and read some of the posts there.

if anyone here believes that what they claim is sustainable growth is achieveable, well ...

Has anyone reviewed the offering from CEF? Seems to me that exercise of the initial rights @ $4 per share purchase effectively gives you options on gold and siver to May '99 and then, if you exercise those warrants, options until Nov. '99.

Unless gold and silver tank seems like a good idea unless gold and silver take off and CEF does not have a locked in purchase price. Anyone have any THOUGHTS.

Tom

( modification of an old joke )

A business man ( we'll call Bill ) is sitting at the end of the bar after a long day at work. After a while a woman takes the stool next to him, and some small talk passes back and forth.

After a drink or two, when he has gathered up his courage, he clears his throat and ventures, "Madam, would you take offence if I offered you $850,000 to consider giving me a bit of relief?"

She's understandibly taken aback by this, but after reflection decides that the guy is not so bad looking and- after all, that *is* a lot of money- so after a seemly pause she assents.

They stare at their drinks for a while in silence, when he turns to her and says, "Well, in that case, would you do it for 5 dollars?"

She hauls off and decks him off his bar stool and begins to scream at the top of her voice, "What do you think I am- some common whore!?"- and gathers up her things in a huff.

"Well".., he replys, "I thought we'd already established *that* fact. Now we're simply negotiating the price."

he greatest difficulty in returning to a gold Polaris is that those who benefit most, the mass of ordinary Americans, are not organized for that goal. And the elites who benefit from
an unstable money still represent a powerful force for continuance of that instability. Just as there is an enormous industry in the United States devoted to grappling with the
complexities of the federal and state tax codes, there is an industry devoted to the world of monetary instability. The entire financial services industry is geared in one way or
another to earn its way by guiding the commercial world at home and abroad through the choppy waters of dollar fluctuations. With a gold dollar once again fixed in the galaxy,
most of these costly functions would be unnecessary and would soon disappear. In his presidential farewell, President Dwight Eisenhower warned of the influence of a
military-industrial complex. The combine would use its massive political weight to exaggerate or aggravate tensions abroad, in order to profit by supplying the offensive and
defensive goods at taxpayer expense. It does not operate as a conspiracy, but naturally organizes along pessimistic principles and attitudes, preparing for worst-case scenarios.
Unless there is a democratic check on the complex, it will drain all of a nation's resources to insure against defeat by an imagined foe. There is also an environmental/industrial
complex, which will use its influence in government to an equal extreme. Unless checked, it will close down all enterprise to save spotted owls and such.

So, too, with the "misery industry," which profits by defending Americans against the complexities and excesses of government at all levels. It is in the interest of this industry to
explore to the nth degree the possible profits to be had in litigating between adversaries in the law courts, for example. It also profits by guiding 90 million or so taxpayers through
the myriad volumes of the tax code, and by serving domestic and international clients by providing novel instruments to protect against monetary instability. The International
Monetary Fund, which has effectively distanced itself from democratic restraints, is the most dangerous of the forces of pessimism. The United Nations bureaucracy also
represents a threat in that it can offer to lead peacekeeping efforts in the wake of IMF programs, which create conflict through its promotion of instability.

http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/gp6.htm

Comment: Looks like the Euros may have grabbed the window to usurp the now corrupted dollar as the world currency of choice...roll on '99, the Year of Reckoning.

$850,000 for having not-sex with Bill. I think she's a pretty good haggler.

SDRer, Delphi, ?: I have a few comments for you to ponder over. Perhaps this is obvious --just not to me.

First, the EURO is likely to be underpriced so that it can rise after it is 'formally launched'. Any idea how the ECU is to set this up? Anything we can look for? Where/what are the smoke and mirrors?

Secondly, I remember comments about a currency 'snake' being discussed in current discussions. Apparently the currency 'snake' was used to stabilize multiple international currencies in the 70's -- during the time the US dollar was at risk for devaluation. Apparently it failed.
Question: Any idea what this is, and what it means to implement a currency 'snake'? Sound ominous. Something else to watch?

Brazil takes the noose
Tries to strangle it's people
But Brazil backs down

Brazil then defaults
The IMF game is up
We all pay the price

The deaths of 500,000 children were worth it??? MA is at least as bad as Hitler & much uglier.

http://fnews.yahoo.com/fool/98/11/13/dna/p3.html

I think I need a few quick courses on creating a web site, a.k.a. money tree. Unbelievable.

I'm afraid that you and I are 'overqualified'. These deals
are only hatched by college students in their 20's.

I'm afraid you're right.....hmmmmmm, is it OK if I can REMEMBER being in my 20's?

We couldn't get those kind of share prices for a gold mining company that spit out gold coins like a fountain.

Ahhh, those fond memories. Viva rememberances!

OK, let's bail out another bankrupt country, bomb the pants off Saddam, and keep Gold down on the Friday close.
OK, and so goes another week.........

A picture says a thousand words:

http://www.ocregister.com/liberty/cartoon.shtml

Due to heavy turbulence in the financial markets, the so- called 'Gold ( Dollar ) Standard' was indeed abolished to provide relief to the old and rigid system of fixed exchange rates related to the US Dollar measured in gold. While the US Dollar faced the consequences of being exposed to the volatility of the market, Community countries for the first time tried vigorously to control variations within a band of 2.25% above or below an average exchange rate to the Dollar: the so-called 'currency snake'. The
snake did not prove sufficiently stable to provide a dam against the considerable monetary tensions and variations between European currencies and the US Dollar. The difficult situation led to a joint initiative by France and Germany in 1979 to create the European Monetary System ( EMS ) with in principle fixed ( but in practice to some extent flexible ) mechanisms and a common denominator in the form of the European Currency Unit, or 'ECU', determined on the basis of a basket of European currencies.

As of 31 Dec, the eleven member currencies cease to exist as national monetary entities. So...no snake methinks!

As to euro underpriced:they set targets, 'comfortable fits' quite awhile ago. 2/1 on the Dem seems to find approval within the German community, so one suspects that is were they would very much like to be on 31 Dec. Have I managed to make it even more confusing? Am I ready to be a bureaucrat? [God forbid!] Off for a convivial glass. Salud!
bbl

From "just-in-time" to "just-in-case"?
Commodities & Agriculture: Volatility forecast for metals markets
"Demand and prices for metals will be volatile towards the end of next year as consumers attempt to head off millennium bomb problems, according to Rudolf Wolff, the commodity trading subsidiary of Noranda, Canada's biggest natural resources group.

Industry worldwide will build stocks before 2000, "switching from just-in-time to just-in-case inventory", said Martin Squires, a Wolff analysts.

Mr. Squires says a mining company not completely certain that its mine-or power supplier-is year 2000 compliant would be unlikely to allow employees into potentially dangerous areas. He suggests that the problems can be expected to exacerbate market volatility during the closing stages [unfortunate choice of words? SDRer] of the millennium.
FT 11/13/98

And-- speaking of Brazil...

SCANDAL hits So Paulo
"So Paulo ended with big loses on news of an alleged financial scandal involving President Fernando Cardoso. The Bovespa index lost 292 or 3.7 per cent.
Allegations centred on an $368m account in the Cayman Islands and traders said the market fears the scandal will distract congress from austerity measures."
FT 11/13/98

Tuesday should be an interesting day. Attached is today's preciousmetals update mentioning the above among other things.

http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2557098314-caf

Shhhhhh! Don't tell anybody yet! ( %-^] )

Currency snake and the worm in the snake:

http://www.radix.net/~tarpley/bretwood.htm

News from the Mall ( pr 'mawl' )
Legend on a T-shirt for sale:
"Year 2000.
New Zealand
First to see The Millenium."

Artwork: a rising sun over picturesque Mt Hikurangi.

By way of explanation, the peak of Mt Hikurangi will be the first spot on land to be kissed by the sun of the new Millenium ( as it is every 'day' of the year ) in Nuzeelin, and 'therefore' the world.

Yves St Aurator

You mean.......there is somebody LEFT to tell? ( ;^ ) )

If gold stocks ( XAU ) are at a short-term low between the 18th and 20th, better buy it by then.....next stop....a high in the Spring ( April ) ....I betcha.

http://www.bloomberg.com/feature.html

Date: Fri Nov 13 1998 11:52
EB ( TOL#1....namast.......brother....... ) ID#187109:

Crystal Ball - how are them AOL puts doin?? o-u-c-h...eh? ( jest teasin' ) ...you top searchin fella you.... ( were you jest kiddin with us and you really didn't buy 'em? ) .........hope so.

Dear , I wuzn't kiddin; bought each @ $3 and a kewter, although I feel like kickin' myself in the @$$ for not selling 'em ( coulda got $7 easy ) at Wednesday's ( 137 1/8 ) close, but they's still good fer $4 and a kewter as of today's close. I'm a greedy sumbitch, and I got my sites set on an abysmal equity plunge next week. I's still hopin' AOL scuba-dives its way down to a nice even $100/share, but if it happens to settle at only $120, I's gonna be nice and philosophical-like about the whole thang. Regards.

http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9811/13/asiahit.idg/index.html

I know this could shock some of you but I have turned some-what bullish.
I actually covered my shorts under $293.50. I not long right now and this is not the move to start a bull market but I will be looking to get long soon on any more weekness. Enjoy the rally while it lasts. Of cource this is gold and I'm not going to get to crazy because this could be anotehr fake out.

I'm also short silver and think that silver could continue to go down even if gold goes up.

Brussels, Nov. 13 ( Bloomberg ) -- The European Parliament called for the creation of a 100 euro gold coin as legal tender once the European Union's single currency becomes widely circulated in 2002. The coin would "add an emotional aspect to the new currency," said German deputy Irene Soltwedel-Schaefer, the idea's sponsor. "The measure could also stabilize the price of gold as the national central banks of the euro zone tend to sell their gold reserves."

This is very IMPORTANT news! Very important. We are beginning to see and confirm the importance the ECB has placed on gold. Couple this with Russia's move to do a similar thing. The US dollar may be in big trouble if it does not do the same thing.

The Long-term fundamentals for Gold are OVERWHELMING!!!!!!

Where did you get the Euro coin report from??

I can't find anything on Yahoo! Currency news.

See FreeRepublic-Latest 20 posts re Feds Eye Shut Down of Chicago Exchange ref Red Chinese Involvment

Spock - That is not logical! ;- ) It seems he got it from Bloomberg.

I'd be interested to hear what peoples' opinions are on the upcoming Fed meeting and its relationship to the price of gold ( short term ) . 1 ) If the fed cuts rates, 2 ) if they don't cut rates. I think that they won't cut rates but am a bit worried that the stock market doesn't show signs of distribution by insiders. But, I'm uncertain about the effect on gold. As we know the last cut marked a top for gold. The general stock market boomed, dollar got stronger and bonds tanked. Will another cut do more of the same? Or is a cut already priced into the market? Another cut will reduce the competitiveness of the dollar versus other currencies that are paying more competitive rates. Perhaps another cut will weaken the dollar. etc. etc. Opinions please!

And how much gold would there be in a 100 Euro gold piece, at, say, 325/oz?

Magic in numbers.


Glenn
Good to hear from you. Why do you feel bearish about silver? TIA

Spock
See neophyte's 19:32.
Well spotted, neophyte!

gold has made an isolated low and seems to be working it's way higher. Silver has NOT made an made a similar low which could help it. Since I do not think this is the start of a bull market but rather a trading affair silver does not need to go up with gold. Silver and gold have not been following each other exactly lately. Silver didn't really move much during the Jan96 or Oct98 high in gold and gold did not follow silver in Feb98.

Buy Gold - Sell Silver....Unless silver breaks $5.15 then I'll be wrong. Until then hold shorts. A move below $288.00 would be very negative for gold. Obviously

http://www.washtimes.com/internatl/internatl3.html

Secured two generators from an east Cdn dealer-last two. Speaking to a local rental agency today who stated he has 120 on order from a supplier who has 600 back-ordered & can't get em'. They are coming in to some local hardare stores 5/6 at a time but are sold as quick as they hit the floor. Considered impossible within several weeks. Canada is Generator Kaputska. Dem U.S. storms again.

In July, the European Central Bank, master of the 11 countries adopting the single currency starting jan/1/99, said 15 percent of the initial $43 billion in foreign exchange reserves transferred to it from member states will be gold.

Any sales of their remaining gold holdings, collectively the world's largest, will require ECB approval. However, they have yet to issue a more detailed guideline.

*******
The fact that the Euro is backed by gold, albeit only 15%, means that if the ECB wants to create more fiat money, IT MUST PURCHASE AT LEAST 15% OF THE NEW FIAT SO AS TO BACK IT WITH GOLD. Not like what the US does!!!!

This is what I think the US must do, back their currency with some amoutn of gold. We all know they have gold in Fort Knox...Well, I'm hoping they do..you just never really know.

sharefin

Cresus! Theres some fine outspoken people in public office in merka, yes? I dunno when Traficant said this, but The White House should PAY ATTENTION:

"Quite frankly, I do not understand the White House. I am going to tell it right the way it is. The White House will not wise up until there is a Chinese rocket stuffed right up their assets. They are so dumb on this issue they could collectively throw themselves at the ground and miss."

--Rep. James Traficant, ( D-OH )


All
I am looking for a speach online, Cassius M Johnsons speach to the Legislative Council on July 23 1867, speaking against the motion to change the name of Arkansas.
would be obliged if anyone could point mois in the direction of these Golden words.

I got EMailed with the news. I just sent an EMail back to see if I can get the full report and post it here.

SDRer, Gollum: Salud! I gather that the currency snake was a way to make the US dollar semi-floating ( 2.25% window ) as a transition from fixed to floating. From what Gollum posted, it seems that the US dollar was floating for a time after Aug 1971, when Nixon closed the gold window. The Group of 10 met Dec 17, 1971 at the Smithsonian in Washington, and established a +/- 2.25% fluctuation band in all countries involved. Later the 6 EEC European countries involved wanted to go back to fixed currencies between themselves, but a floating dollar, and established a semifloating exchange against the US dollar -- the European 'snake', on March, 1972. This snake had a 2.25% fluctuation window, which led to its description of same, as it 'snaked' within the 4.5% Smithsonian band.

The eventual failure of even this 'semi-fixed' parity lead to all full-floating currencies around March of 1973.

This all makes sense to me now -- the European 'snake' essentially marked the transition from fixed to full-floating currencies, due to the failure of the US dollar to maintain parity.

It would be interesting to see if the EEC 'snake' failed entirely due to the instability of the US dollar, or due in part to instability of the EEC countries.

A number of possibilities could still apply to the EURO from the lesson of the EEC 'snake' failure:

1 ) The EURO could run into difficulties from maintaining stable fixed parity among themselves.

2 ) The EURO could run into difficulties because of difficulties in maintaining a stable exchange rate with the US dollar.

Trouble with item 1 ) is much more likely, as some sort of medium of exchange will have to be used with the members of the EURO to maintain fixed parity. Ie -- reserves of some kind -- GOLD?

Trouble with the dollar exchange rate is less likely with the EURO because it is now full-floating anyway relative to the dollar, and will remain so. Hence any discussion of the EEC 'snake' is relevant now only in relation to the likelihood of success of the fixed EURO exchange rates between member countries. Given George Soros' comments about little thought regarding differential inflation rates between countries, the EURO may lead a short life. My guess is that the winners of future EURO turmoil will be the countries with lots of gold reserves -- Germany, France, and ?

http://www.iqpc.com/1198y2ut.htm
As you know, the Year 2000 problem affects many critical business and operational functions throughout the utilities industry. The scale and enormity of the problem is defined by the huge effort required to locate and correct every date sensitive operation within a fixed period of time. However, as the deadline draws closer, IT IS NOW WIDELY ACKNOWLEDGED THAT IT WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE TO ENSURE FULL COMPLIANCE IN THE LIMITED TIME THAT REMAINS!

Remember the last time that the U.S. shook their fists at Iraq? It was back in February 1998. The paralells between the financial situation then and now are remarkable. With one very big difference.

Then, as now, the markets were rising strongly. Then, as now, U.S. investors had had their worries about global financial events eased substantially. Then, as now, Gold was right around the $US 300 level.

But back in February, the U.S. had not yet directly intervened in the global financial situation. Now, they have, with a vengeance. That's the biggest difference, and it bodes very ill for the next downturn.

That's the subject for the latest Gold commentary at The Privateer website. All other charts and commentary updated as usual.

I don't know about buying any more stocks right now It looks like the biggies are starting to leverage what they anticipate will be a runup in the spring. Being the basicaly conservative critter that I am, most of my retirement account is in bonds and money market funds. Of my discretionary money I have all in PM stocks already except for the little bit that is in South African gold funds.

Right now the question is do I want to buy more physical gold? I guess this weekend may require some more chicken liver divination. Oh, well, off to study signs, portents, and to place my bets in the upcoming WWF heavyweight grudge match... Sneaky Saddam versus Sad Willie!

( For those who don't know, never listen to Gagnrad. He is a raving lunatic and his investment opinion is merely talking to himself. Chicken livers! )

Thanx heaps. Looking forward to reading it.

Up till now all we have heard is the rumour that they MIGHT do it.

Would like to get some confirmation taht it is actually going to happen.

Do have to pick you up on one point though; the Euro is not 15% backed by gold. It just means foreign reserves are 15% gold.

The US has gold as foreign reserves but no one on this line would say that the US$ is backed by gold.

Live Long and Prosper.

Thanx heaps. Looking forward to reading it.

Up till now all we have heard is the rumour that they MIGHT do it.

Would like to get some confirmation taht it is actually going to happe.

Do have to pick you up on one poit though; the Euro is not 15% backed by gold. It just means foreign reserves are 15% gold.

The US had gold a s foreign reserves but no one on this line would say that the US$ is backed by gold.

Live Long and Prosper.

I love your Y2K posts!!

I read an article a couple of months ago on Y2K. It said that Jan/1/99, ( that's one year before the new millenium ) , will trigger a lot of computer failures. It has do to with some programs that must use 1 year forward to make a calculation.

That is, add 1 year to Jan/1/99 and you get the year 2000. But some programs will calculate Jan/1/00, which is not truly the year 2000. Programs that do that will bomb.

So, Y2K may come early. If so, you will see many companies finally getting serious about Y2K.

Have just read your gold pages. You made a very interesting point that the US is fully involved, and that 'who will save us now?" should another downturn come.

A very interesting point.

Live Long and Prosper.

Tantalus Rex: I find this EURO business really murky, as each country will have to have reserves of some kind, until 'inflation'/'deflation' rates are the same in all countries. That cannot happen until there is one currency and one financial system. If the transition does not occur quickly enough the differential inflation rates of each country may kill the EURO before it is fully born.

So -- we can safely conclude that all the European gold reserves are not transferred to the EURO until there is one financial system -- as anything else would probably be financial suicide.

In the meanwhile, it is really hard to make sense of all this mumbo-jumbo abount internal and external reserves. I would guess that total net gold reserves for all countries plus the EURO would be the only thing we could follow. If total internal and external reserves go up -- then we should sit up and take notice.

Isn't it interesting that the EURO is going 'live' disturbingly close to y2K, and the Europeans are far behind other countries such as the US in preparing for the y2k event.

Y2K is very bad timing for any aspect of the EURO launch, in my humble opinion. Y2K alone is trouble enough.

Year M3 ( $bil ) M3 ( $bil )
12 month increase
1971.12 776.0
1972.12 886.0 $110.0
1973.12 985.0 $ 99.0
1974.12 1070.0 $ 85.0
1975.12 1172.0 $102.0
1976.12 1312.0 $140.0
1977.12 1472.5 $160.5
1978.12 1646.8 $174.3
1979.12 1806.6 $159.8
1980.12 1992.2 $185.6
1981.12 2240.9 $248.7
1982.12 2442.3 $201.4
1983.12 2684.9 $242.6
1984.12 2979.8 $294.9
1985.12 3198.4 $218.6
1986.12 3486.4 $288.0
1987.12 3672.7 $186.3
1988.12 3913.1 $240.4
1989.12 4066.3 $153.2
1990.12 4126.8 $ 60.5
1991.12 4182.1 $ 55.3
1992.12 4193.5 $ 11.4
1993.12 4258.9 $ 65.4
1994.12 4333.6 $ 74.7
1995.12 4595.6 $ 262.0
1996.12 4935.5 $ 339.9
1997.12 5383.7 $ 448.2

Year M3 ( $bil ) M3 ( $bil )
( 12month moving average )
1998.01 5432.1 $471.0
1998.02 5472.2 $474.4
1998.03 5536.3 $504.3
1998.04 5583.3 $508.0
1998.05 5608.2 $521.7
1998.06 5627.1 $517.9
1998.07 5644.7 $498.2
1998.08 5709.2 $508.8
1998.09 5761.1 $536.3
1998.10 5833.1 $565.3

Good on you mate.
Here's what you'll need to learn now.
http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/homei/9803HIHIAM.html

Here's a couple of sites for you people who like the cold.
http://hoshi.cic.sfu.ca/~pep/
http://www.northern-survival.com/

I've done business with Northern Hydraulics out of Burnsville MN. for some dozen years. ( Recently changed their name to Northern Tool and Equipment Co. ) They sell a really neat 125 amp welding machine which doubles as a 4000 watt generator and have a whole line of house brand generators in addition to various name brands like Coleman, Honda, North Star etc. I've never had any trouble with them ( but nothing I've ever bought from them ever broke so I have zero experiance with their service department ) . Their number is 1-800-533-5545. I've never visited their website but it is http://www.northern-online.com



Standard disclaimer applies, no advice, no relation to this company except as a customer etc.

Baron August Von Finck and his brother William think the Euro will have major problems also. They are seeking to increase their gold holdings.

They way I see it,

1. If the Euro is a success, IT'S GREAT FOR GOLD.
2. If the Euro craps out, IT'S ALSO GREAT FOR GOLD.

It could be that the ECB is secretly purchasing gold at these low prices.
The CB's lend the gold to fools who sell. The CB's buy the same gold from those fools who sold it for interest bearing assets.

What happens when these same fools have to buy the gold back, which is in the CB's hands and the CB's don't sell??

Second column is 12 month change in M3.

http://www.stls.frb.org/fred/data/monetary/m3ns

Really amazing that we just inflated our money supply 10% in the past 12 months and "prices" haven't gone up. Neither have wages. Well actually, the jewelry store is doing fine. Lot's of custom platinum orders. September was my only slow month this year. Imports are cheaper but domestic corporate pricing power is very low, especially manufacturing.

The credit markets really are severely weakened. Captain Bill Buckler really does have it right. You should all subscribe. And you ought to consider buying some of the back issues. As Alan Greenspan says, pick up a month old copy of the Privateer to see what is really going on today. Really.

http://www.familyjeweler.com

My guess is that they will not use $325 for a price. I say they will use a coin the size of an old 20franc coin of years past. This had .20 oz of gold in it. This would indicate a $600/oz target. Now considering that gold is only 15% of a Euro they may be thinking of much high gold prices ( in dollar terms ) . Somewhere, around $....well no more speculations. This might be a bit..aggressive..but then consider the ratio of gold reserve to the dollar, and it does not sound as remote. out.

Fink knows that to make more euros they will need more gold. Kinda like owning a printing press under the fiat sytem..huh...well not quite at convenient but ....

http://www.the-privateer.com/welcome.html

If they use a .2 oz coin $3870
If they use a .5 oz coin $1546
If they use a 1.0 oz coin $773
using $POG=100ECU*.15/weight in oz

Did anyone catch sam_a's question at 16:39 about custom silver castings?

FEDS EYE SHUT-DOWN OF CHICAGO EXCHANGE - Red Chinese Involved
11-13 Public Access Cable TV--- Sherman Skolnick

CHICAGO--In a rare move, federal regulators are joining with the US Justice Dept in serious considering the possible shut-down for 90 days or more of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.

Following up on several years of our exclusive reports, the federal investigators have uncovered what appears to be massive illicit transactions on the Chicago markets by trading firms on behalf of the Red Chinese government and newly privatized Chinese firms.

The billions of dollars of highly suspect deals involve foreign exchange as well as soy bean dealing all done to reportedly disguise dope trafficking and unlawful weapons shipments as well as the trafficking of human body parts harvested by murdering political prisoners in China.

Under intense scrutiny are the records and lack of records of the Chicago foreign exchange unit of a Canadian bank along with the dealings of Chicago and New York based firms and a swarm of commission agents known in the trade as introducing brokers.

The moves come in the wake of the Beijing government dragging their feet on usually routine letters of credit and other bank-to-bank transactions used by US and Europe based exporters.

Experts on the export-import trade contend the Chinese authorities are taking the actions to attempt to sidestep devaluation of their currency and the related frantic flight capital.

Chinese firms are accused of inflating their records to get funds out of the country into US and other supposedly more sound currencies.

A Red Chinese devaluation, band watchers claim, would nearly destroy the Rockefeller banks, such as the First National Bank of Chicago which lent billions to China on the empty promise of re-payment in gold from their western provinces. Instead of gold, the Chinese have been allowed to flood the US, through Chicago as the intake point, with "China White" high purity heroin, seemingly exempt from interception by the US Drug Enforcement Administratin considered themselves highly corrupt.

Likewise, a Red Chinese devaluation would most likely collapse the Japanese banking system heavily involved in loans and dealings with Red China and other Asian nations.

Called by savvy types, ForEx trading, the Chicago & Chine deals go principally through the Chicago foreign exchange unit of Harris Bank, owned by the Bank of Montreal, home-base of the whiskey barons and reputed dope trafficking money laundering Bronfman family.

Heavily invested in the US music, entertainment, and communications industries, the Bronfmans are generally considered sacred cows, off-limits to severe criticism by mainstream pundits.

On occasion, some of the Chinese foreign exchange transactions also go through Harris Bank in combination with Bank of America. The San Francisco-based worldwide enterprise is owned principally by the French Rothschilds jointly, historically, with the Jesuits.

In more recent years, major owners also of the parent firm, Bank of America, have been the Japanese Mafia, the Yakuza, who bought into the bank octopus when their stock was below ten dollars a share.

Complicating the growing possibility of a Chicago-centered international scandal is the attempt by former White House Senior Advisor Rahm Emanuel and a group of shadowy foreign exchange "bandit types" to take over one or more trading firms.

Rahm Emanuel reportedly arm-twisted various traders, introducing brokers, and related agents, promising them huge profits if they, without raising questions, went along with his plan to greatly expand the already huge Chinese armlock on the Chicago markets.

Some of the brokers and traders claim, off the record, that they are being unfairly singled out by the federal authorities in a move to divert attention from President Clinton's treasonous giving of US financial, industrial, and military secrets to the reputed head of the Red Chinese Secret Police, Wang Jun, who is also a private law client of supposedly "Independent Counsel Kenneth W. Starr.

Some point to this as a conflict-of-interest overlap between Starr and Clinton.

Showing up at recent meetings of traders, brokers and other agents, dealing on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, Harris Bank's foreign exchange unit, and Bank of America, have been a contingent of agents for those who oppose the fiery-eyed, overly intense Rahm Emanual who reportedly utilized embezzled funds as a major1992 presidential campaign boost to Clinton.

The funds were a three million dollar gap between 50 million dollars of federal funds and secretly transferred to Arkansas from Chicago and 47 million dollars needed to cover up the embezzlement of Madison Guaranty Savings & Loan, for which Bill and Hillary Clinton are subject to federal criminal prosecution.

The Chiacago Mercantile Exchange was part of the route of the clandestine transfer of funds originally parked by a federal agency with Chicago-based Household International and Household Bank. ( Household Bank units in 1996 were taken over by Harris Bank. ) The $50 million dollars were laundered reportedly through the foreign exchange unit of Harris Bank.

At the meetings, those confronting Rahm Emanuel warned him that he should "leave the country now" before something happens to him. In apparent violation of US Constitution mandates, Emanuel has dual citizenship, US and Israel, and left the US during the Persian Gulf War to serve in Israel's Defense Forces.

Federal authorities are inquiring into the manner in which the clandestine Red Chinese funds were laundered. Such as huge amounts being attributed to the ForEx trading arrangements, if not actual accounts, of various trading firms, brokers, and introducing brokers who contend to confidants that this was done without their knowledge, profit, or benefit.

Rahm Emanuel's cohorts, in strong-arming their way into the markets to expand the Red Chinese presence in the Chicago markets, are now reportedly promising traders and other sizable pay-offs by giving them other deals to profit by. All, to further promote silence.

The federal authorities are also investigating several murders in these various cases in firms seeking to enter the Chicago markets. Archer-Daniels-Midland and Cargill which had an ill-timed opposing market position.

The Milan, Italy-based firm involving Ferruzzi.

Vincent Foster, Jr. was known in some circles as the "bagman" on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange by his various illicit dealings.

Closing the Chicago Mercantile Exchange for 90 days or more would be unprecedented for the 20th Century. In the 19th Century, however, due to wild gambling, the much older Chicago Board of Trade was closed for a while and Western Union Telegraph cut off the wires into the place.

Cynics in law enforcement say they expect a string of strange vehicle "accidents," "heart attcks," which we call CIA heart attacks, and such, to try to shut down the Chicago Mercantile Exchange scandal before it spreads to other venues.

The shut down may be covered up as a merger with, or link in some way, with the Chicago Board of Trade.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This Citizen's Committee to Clean Up the Courts was a Public Access Cable TV Program "Broadsides" Since 1963, Producer Sherman H. Skolnick was the Moderator of the Show called Sherman Skolnick Sounds Off!!

Tantalus Rex: Makes sense now that you put it that way.

If the EURO flops, the US dollar and gold go up ( in dollars ) -- just like 1993 when the UK bailed out of the ECU.

If the EURO succeeds, the US dollar must go down ( eventually ) . Hence gold will go up. Given Y2K and other factors such as differential inflation rates, this is the less likely event.

I also agree with you that Germany, France ( and possibly the US ) could be secretly buying back some of the gold that other CB's and speculators have been selling over say, the last 12 months. That flap about traders buying up gold may have been because certain CB's were upset that they were being deprived of cheap gold purchases for themselves ( BIS included ) , and some of it left the Western supply total. We know the BIS did this 'for the CB's' during similar periods in the past. And -- we think the BIS is now involved in 'supporting the $ price of gold'.

I wonder how much they could buy before someone finds out. But then --we do not know how much each CB actually holds -- except what they say they have -- hence we may never really know the truth. The actual dollar value of national Gold holdings ( with liens on them ) seems to be as tightly held a secret as nuclear or UFO secrets.

Too bad we don't have a Rothschild posting on Kitco. Oh well, I'm now used to being a mushroom and investing/trading in the dark.

Any idea how long it will take for everyone to conclude the EURO has succeeded or not? Two years from now? By that time Russia will really be in turmoil, or already threatening Europe.

up 20-40 units last year had nothing. No reasons were given except the
hurricanes. They did have a lot of 2250w units but I noticed that they
were using engines that did not have the cast iron cycinder liner.
The I/C motors, I think they are called. Can't wear them out. Also should get lots of spare parts like head gaskets. Seems that you have to sometimes scrape the heads clean. plugs too. Best to beat the panic.

Winston: You almost had me there till I got to the third paragraph and some fictitious organization was listed. I think your post rivals Orson Welles' 'War of the Worlds'. What is more frightening is that COSCO might eventually be able to do this -- we did give them an old Naval base in LA.

Good thing I didn't panic!

Pinky's Tailing Box: FRIDAY THE 13th edition...

...white HOUSE I #=0...

Hilary: Bill, have you seen Chelsea?

Bill: She was in the press pool last I saw her Dear...

...weeks later...

Hilary: You have never done anything in your life to hurt me Bill until
now...I'll never forgive you for losing our daughter. I'm leaving you.

Bill: You didn't have to tell me that Dear--I just saw your latest poll
readings and you're down 30% today...hey what's that knocking sound in
my closet at midnight?

Hilary: So all the stories were true--you'll never see me again till I
see Chelsea. Claro?

Bill: Si, and great political idea about being seen speaking more
Spanish.

...months later...

Al Gore: Hi Bill. Remember me, your neighbor Al? I've been your biggest
fan ever since I got next in line to occupy your house.

Bill: Well Al, I'm kind of busy right now--I expect something to be
waiting for me in my Oval Office closet at midnight and I have to get
ready for it.

Al Gore: Like what?

Bill: Well, something with knockers.

Al Gore: Why you sly dog...see you later...

...midnight...bong...bong...bong...bong...bong...bong...bong...bong...bo
ng...bong...bong...bong...

KNOCK, KNOCK, KNOCK...

Bill: Come on Bill--you got enough courage to open a tweaky little door.

SQUE-A-A-A-K!!! CLICK!!! A-A-A-A-R-R-R-R-H-H-H!!!!

Bill: HELP! HELP! DARN!..It's Friday night--the night the Secret Service
knows enough to give me privacy so I can get some work done around
here...

...next morning...

Bill: Thank goodness I was able to push that horrible insect back inside
the closet...

...that afternoon...

...ring-a-ling-a-ling...

Bill: Oh hi Mr. Heston. You know you have always been one of my favorite
actors. Thanks a lot for sending over your favorite 12 guage pump
shotgun...thanks again, bye...

DING DONG!!!

Bill: My, it's Hilary...no.. it's the evil force in this house tricking
me...

BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!

Bill: Oh no, police sirens. I'll hide the monster in the Lincon
Bedroom...there...now don't forget--that's 100,000 a night.

DING DONG!!!

Bill: Yes?

DC Policeman: Mr. President, I'm Officer Blake and I have a few
questions Sir. Did you fire a weapon?

Bill: I experimented a time or with two firing my weapon. I didn't like
it, I never pulled the trigger and I never tried it again...hey, how
long have you been on the force?

Officer Blake: Two years Sir--thanks for the job...that will be all Sir.

Al Gore: Hey neighbor--you look wore out and your leg is limping isn't
it?

Bill: Just practicing my golf swing a little too enthusiastically with
my Pro-Am buddies. Hey, could you come over at midnight and help me take
care of a 'coon in my closet?

Al Gore: What????

Bill: A 'coon. You know--a cute little thing whose PRIMARY COLOR is
black

Al Gore: Oh my... ( mumbles ) ...the stories were true...er, sure--I'll be
there... ( mumbles ) just to make sure you stay out of trouble...

...five minutes to midnight...

Bill: Now here's a harpoon-gun.

Al Gore: Are you crazy Bill?

Bill: Just shoot when I open the door...

...BONG...CR-E-A-A-A-K...

A-A-A-A-A-A-G-G-G-G-H-H-H-H-H-H!!!!!!

Al Gore: YIKES!!!!

Bill: Shoot!

SWISH!!!

Al Gore: What do I do now????!!!!

Bill: What is this thing Al?

Al Gore: It's a gold bug.

Bill: We did it--it's locked back in the closet wounded...

...days later while the President writes his Viet Nam War era memoirs...

Ghost of Vengeful Vet ( appears ) : I'm coming to get you Bill--I'll never
forget how you finked out on us in 'Nam...

Bill: How did you get here???

Vet1s Ghost: Through the Kennedy Portrait.

Bill ( pulls picture aside and black hole appears ) ...Why, the hole seems
to go on to infinity...what is this?

Vet's Ghost: You fool, it's all the National Debt seen at once--much of it has
been masked for years by loose monetary policies and the grave robbing
of the Social Security Trust Fund.

Bill: I'm not a coward--I'm coming down...why, it's turned into a
jungle. Chelsea--is that you?!!! But, you're surrounded by Men In Black
and not in a bamboo cage like according to the HOUSE I script that I'm
supposed to rescue you from...

Chelsea: Nothing's going to rescue me from this script.

Vet's Ghost: Sorry Mr. President--It was a last minute change on my part
in the script for scene mood. Chelsea obviously looks much more caged being smothered by all these agents...

Bill: Oops--a fire's breaking out--quick Chelsea...this way!!!...

...We got out alive, but the white HOUSE is burning. Shucks, the last
time it burned this bad Clinton was VP. Now that's spooky.

$$$

whirlwindbuyszappa@aol.com

Please allow me to de-lurk and request that someone explain whether they think there is significance in this "article" concerning the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. It is on several sites tonight. It is obviously questionable, but interesting.

All: I think we should really worry if one day China suddenly decides not to test any more multistage ballistic missiles that can reach our shores. They might eventually decide they can aim all their nuclear missles elsewhere, once COSCO is fully in control.

I guess you could consider that old Naval base in LA a beachhead -- I gather anything can go there withour customs checks. -- Until very recently, I think ( I hope ) . Anyone know?

I was going to say that it's too bad that sam doesn't live on the same block as gagnrad,223. He could learn hands-on techniques from him.
Otherwise, I don't know.
It is an interesting query, though. I was thinking of aurator's pig.
There are so many objects that could be moulded, and investment cast in PM's that I'll assert that there's money to be made from them.
Let's say that a big loser silver producer had a bit of imagination.
They would not cast their entire mine production into slab-sided bars, but, devote some of it to 50/100 oz bullion figurines. If there is a value added for the mine, so much the better.
An .9995 50 oz horse figure is a girl's fancy. They can festoon it with their maker's mark, so that it is a recognisable bullion item. They can also pocket the extra fifteen per-cent premium for the shareholders.
I read that Harmony Mines was doing this, but they, being South African, don't reply to me about this, or anything else. Stoopid.

All: Is this fellow for real? Or should I say is this a real person? If so -- looks like he is a complete fruitcake.

On second thought, for his sake I hope he is not a real person.

Good night all -- what a crazy day!

I noticed sam_a's request, and I'm a goldsmith ( professionally 22 years ) - but he said he wanted someone in eastern Canada. So, I never raised my hand. Missinglink's in the trade also.

Meant CME, not Chicago Board of Trade. But -- the story is fictitios anyway.

Thanks for "peeping up." Where are you? I'd rather keep the biz in the Kitco familly, so to speak ( you guys help me, so... )

sam_a.

http://asl.lib.ar.us/arloc.htm

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query

This was on the news tonite...seemed like it fit with some of the paranoia that gold bugs thrive on...

http://www.telepolis.de/tp/deutsch/inhalt/te/1393/anchor1.html

The report contains seven substantive sections which cover respectively:

( i ) The role and function of the technology of political control;

( ii ) Recent trends and innovations ( including the implications of globalisation, militarisation of police equipment, convergence of control systems deployed worldwide and the implications of increasing technology and decision drift ) ;

( iii ) Developments in surveillance technology ( including the emergence of new forms of local, national and international communications interceptions networks and the creation of human recognition and tracking devices ) ;

( iv ) Innovations in crowd control weapons ( including the evolution of a 2nd. generation of so called 'less-lethal weapons' from nuclear labs in the USA ) .

( v ) The emergence of prisoner control as a privatised industry, whilst state prisons face increasing pressure to substitute technology for staff in cost cutting exercises and the social and political implications of replacing policies of rehabilitation with strategies of human warehousing.

( v ) The use of science and technology to devise new efficient mark-free
interrogation and torture technologies and their proliferation from the US & Europe.

( vi ) The implications of vertical and horizontal proliferation of this technology and the need for an adequate political response by the EU, to ensure it neither threatens civil liberties in Europe, nor reaches the hands of tyrants.

Cheers!

I am trying to install Visual C++ 6.0 from Microsoft. Now, I live and breathe Microsoft products so I am pretty accustomed to glitches and workarounds; moreover, I am a developer so I know that it is near impossible to ship something bulletproof. So, I woudln't be surprised nor ticked to find defects here, esp. with an x.0 shipment. I wouldn't be surprised to find more serious bugs; i.e. won't compile properly under certain circumtances ( but might be ticked ) ; it is not even beyond the pale to discover the the install program doesn't install properly - hey it happens.

BUT - I run the install program off a clean boot and it pops up the install Wizard which reads: "This program is subject to copyright yada yada yada... to proceed, press "Next." So I do -- AND IT CRASHES! In other words, THE VERY FIRST BUTTON I CAN PRESS, THE VERY FIRST THING I CAN DO WITH THIS SOFTWARE, causes an unrecoverable error. UNBELIEVABLE! ( I know what the problem is too ( for those pinheads among us ) - the programmer is trying to access a NULL pointer. )

My choices? The web-based help offered nada, so I can only phone MS tech support at a kajillion dollars per hour to get an answer. UNBELIEVABLE!

Thank-you for bearing with me here. I feel much, much better.

sam_a.

e-mail me at obsidian1@mailexcite.com describing your needs. By the way, I'm in Arizona- but do mail order work all over ( god bless federal express )

Here are my favorite introductory links for information about such things. You'll notice that themissinglink is the sponsor of the second link. Also amazon.com has lots of books on the subject. Being a rank amateur sculptor I am not worthy to teach about it. A sculpture or jewelry repair course at the local community college might open doors.



IMHO though the cheapest way might be to build the wax master oneself then take it to a local art foundry if big or jeweler if small and ask for it to be cast, but one would have to know enough about the process and factors involved ( such as the HUGE sprue wastage--for statuettes sprues are easily 30-50% of the weight, the toxic nature of the plaster used to cast or the multitude of finishing techniques ) so as to avoid being completely confused. So some education would be needed.







http://www.silversmithing.com/

http://www.familyjeweler.com/manufacturing.htm

http://www.riogrande.com/

http://www.swestinc.com/

( Yen liquidity facility )
10. Governors welcomed a new facility for yen liquidity offered by the Bank of Japan. Under the facility, the Bank of Japan purchases the Japanese Government Bonds and Bills from central banks and monetary authorities at their request either outright or under repurchase agreements.

Governors noted that this new facility would enhance the use of the yen in the region, and thereby contribute to the regional financial stability.
http://www.emeap.org:8084/

EMEAP :
It comprises the central banks and monetary authorities of eleven economies: Reserve Bank of Australia; People's Bank of China; Hong Kong Monetary Authority; Bank Indonesia; Bank of Japan; The Bank of Korea; Bank Negara Malaysia; Reserve Bank of New Zealand; Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas; Monetary Authority of Singapore; Bank of Thailand.
And BOJ is acting as awellsortalikea key currency bank.

Nice symmetry don't you think? Eleven countries in Emeap, eleven countries in EU; BOJ with 15% of reserves in gold, EU with 15%...
nice and tidy.

What do you mean "huge sprue wastage"? No metal is lost. A percentage of the clean sprue after clipping is added back to the virgin metal for the next cast. Referred to as "charging". This is done one or two times at most until the casting characteristics of the metal show degradation, then it's sent to be refined and re-shot back into new .925 casting grain.

For multiple castings. The master is cast, finished by the artist, sprued and molded. Then multiples are cast in tight trees. The masters ( first casting with the highest resolution ) are retained in a secure place until the molds start to break down.

No-one! should ever charge you for the sprues- as they are retained by the foundry. Although if you pay them for mass-finishing you can expect up from 5 to 15% finishing loss.

By the way- is your handle pronounceable?

Brother, I still do not know what to tell you
about this Russia-Serbia thing..except that it is
obviously not very PRACTICAL for Russia...it is also
potentially tremendously irratating factor for the U.S.
and some powerful countries of Europe...May be it is just
some kind of political play?...On the other hand, Russia is
interested in having access to navy bases in that region,
LIKE USUAL...although Russian navy is nowhere as powerful
as it was before...Still, it seems too high price to
pay for those ports...I really don't know if this is
a serious proposal, but I hope it will never materialize..
we do not need another headache...let's kill Saddam first.
( What do you want, I'm just Oris, the Crazy Shooter.. )

aurator - If you find that speech please e-mail it to me also. A couple of years ago I borrowed some CD's from the library ( as I often do ) just to listen to some different kinds of music I may not have heard before and one was some kind of country or blue grass music group. Mostly normal type of music and songs but as the intro on one someone play-acted that speech. I had great fun driving around for a couple of weeks listening to those 'golden words' as you say. Part of which ( speaking of thing's Golden ) ran something like this: 'Out of Order Mr. Speaker? Out of order.' ( Yelling now ) 'How in god's creation can I be considered out of order when I can P from here right across the Mississippi?'