Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:00 - ID#219363)
Pretty Stars
I'll jump in on this thread too. If there are aliens out there, folks from other worlds, I hope they stay out there and don't make contact with us human folk on the planet earth. I'm not getting caught up in all the "meet our alien brother" stuff, not because it's far fetched, I'm all for talking about remote possibilities, but because I don't want to meet my alien brothers. I don't even want to know they're out there. I don't want nothin to do with it. They stay off my planet, and I'll stay off theirs. Why so down on aliens ? Welp, because I've seen the way nature works. Animals use whatever is around them to their maximum benefit, and humans do it too. I've got no reason to think that some super advanced race of space folks ain't gonna use us humans for all we're worth. Last thing I need is some space dude coming down to earth talking to me like I'm stupid, even if I am. I'm happy being the master of all that I see, thankyouverymuch. Aliens, stay on your own planet. Don't send out little communication beams to talk to me, just keep your distance. I don't like change for it's own sake. Stuff moves fast enough for me the way it is, I have enough trouble keeping up w/o space people.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:03 - ID#408170)
I was lurking Kitco at 10:25 PM Sep.28,1998 ( Monday night )
Heard loud noise increasing in volume , became ear-shattering.
I opened window looked up to see several "choppers" absolutely no
lights at all on the aircraft. It was a dark night, also the sky was overcast 100%.
I could see them outlined against the somewhat lighter sky.
They were at tree top height, heading from Charlotte N.C. ( North ) to ( South ) .
I'm printing the note I saved on that date, and yes I have seen them at other
times. Most don't pay attention but it's that old pilot thingy in me.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:05 - ID#251181)
Winkies -R- Us
I shall be honoured to be the stake-holder. All winkies should be forwarded to mois for safe-keeping and fair and honest distribution to the winner of the wager. BTW, what's the wager about? BTW#2, While in possession of your winkies, I might lease out your winkies, and right some winkie puts.

But the winner shall hold the gold.

Brother Gambler.
You have misunderstood one vital factoid. I's a Noo Zilunder. That's, like over the Tasman Sea from 'stralia. That 1500km gap means that the kiwis live in a land faraway from the Lucky Country, which is what 'stralia is. Stralians can speak for themselves about your take on what is Socialism. For my part, I know that your merkan language of politics has colours unknown to me, and, I suspect, that the NZ Political language and landscape is just as foreign to you. Perhaps you should come over and see for yourself. Or ask AuProducer, a merkan who travels almost every year to NZ, about NZ.
Once, there was a world without 'socialism.' Some folk lived in tribes, some folk lived in cities. NZ has evolved its own rules of politics and behaviour that is influenced by Maoritanga as well as Westminster, New York, Canberra and Hong Kong. The Maori had no notion of private ownership of land. The Maori were warlike, cannibals and gardeners. Because they shared the fruits of their labour amongst the tribe, you may call that socialist. I think you would be very wrong, as, from the time of the first contact with Europeans, the Maori showed themselves to be very capable traders. Trading kauri spars and masts, potatoes, flaxes, even humand heads if you want. My point is, that what you may call socialism may be seen as Aroha ( love ) here.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:16 - ID#20359)
Have any of you ever listened to Bill Maher on Politically Incorrect on it me
or does this fella represent the fatuous crepuscule of American intelligence or what...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:21 - ID#251181)
The knadians are getting "quite unpleasant...."
gangrad your

Date: Wed Dec 09 1998 23:26
( You guys need a serious conspiracy to shake things up here ) ID#43460:
With USS POG in the doldrums and barnacles growing on the good ship HMS Silver we need something exciting

May I offer this?:--------


A bitter row has erupted
between scientists from New Zealand and Canada over
ownership of a recently discovered barnacle, a newspaper
reported on Tuesday.

The rare crustacean was dug up by a New Zealand and
German expedition near two undersea volcanoes off New
Zealand's North Island in the Bay of Plenty, the New Zealand
Herald reported.

But scientists at the University of Victoria in Canada are
demanding the team hand over the barnacle as they are
recognised experts on the volcanic life form.

"We can't quite believe how silly the Canadians are getting
over this," marine scientist Professor John Buckeridge of
the Auckland Institute of Technology was quoted as saying.

"It is scientific colonialism and is becoming an
international incident," Buckeridge said, adding letters from
Canadian scientists had been "quite unpleasant".

The Neopelas barnacle, which is related to species found in
the Jurassic period, is currently in the hands of marine
biologists at the Auckland Institute of Technology.

kwik Kwiz

Who said "Billions and billions of blistering blue barnacles?"

A copy of extrapops for the first correct poster who wants it.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:24 - ID#20359)
RB, Namaste' gulp and a puff to that not the area of the USA where the government
is spending 10s of millions of dollars to find one individual?...the fella who is alleged to have bombed the abortion clinic...I have read about this case but who knows the truth...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:26 - ID#20359)
Aurator, Namaste' gulp and a puff...
Captain Haddock...Herges Adventures of Tintin...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:30 - ID#20359)
an excellent article...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:34 - ID#251181)
Kiwis, not only are flightless, but actually flew b4 the yanks..
sharefin/All Kiwis
There is a doco on one tonight about Richard Pearse, the NZ farmer who, unofficially, beat the Wright brothers to the first flight.....Couldn't happen in a Socialist Country, eh?

Socialism, in NZ, was a response to the Depression that lasted from about 1924 ( The Slump ) until 1935. The Depression in NZ was well under way by the time of the Wall St crash of 29.
Right now, the Depression in NZ is well under way...Tho' only a few like aurator call it like that...But a local paper "Landlords are having to drop rents for low income rentals"...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:36 - ID#20359)
oris, Namaste' gulp and a puff plus a crunch of the pickle to ya...what say you about this article..

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:37 - ID#240155)
Goldbug23 immigrants and welfare US centric long and off topic sorry
It sounds to me that you are uncomfortable with the speed with which your area is becomeing hispanic. But that you realize that you have no valid objection to that. Your objection seems to be to the cases where these people collect welfare. But that is two seperate subjects. You mention conducting our boarders. Of course as a soverign nation we should reserve the right to handle immigration as we see fit. But we should keep in mind that it is the immigrants that have made the US the only nation to become so great so fast. Take Canada for instance, how are we different? We had massive flows of vary diverse immigrants. Now Canada has this now, but I don't think they had this all their history. What about Austrailia? I know little about Austrailia, but I think there are only two cultures there, the indigenous and the colonists. Could the only thing that made the US greater than Austrailia and Canada be the constant influx of strangers, always unsetteling the established, always challenging creativity. They come here and work very very hard at the very bottom, but what is it that all of these immigrants value? They value their childrens education. By the third generation or so they are no longer strangers, some other race or ethnicity is arriving to claim that title. They have assimilated, but not perfectly, we are never given the chance as a people to become overly comfortable.

Now with regard to welfare. These immigrants should not receive welfare. That sounds harsh, but neither should anyone else receive welfare. Compulsion makes compassion turn into comtempt. As it has done with you. It seems that you would accept these people if someone wasn't stealing money out of your paycheck every two weeks to support them. I suggest you might even help them, or expened greater amounts of money on the churches and private agencies that serve them, if the money was left in your check rather than given to them by theft. But these are two seperate issues, and you have let them mingle till it has changed your views regarding charity. This also is an evil of welfare.

Now it is no one elses business, but if I rail against welfare then it is important for me to expose a bit of my own history. The birth of both of my sons was paid for by welfare. I had a job, and my wife had a job until the birth of the first. But we had no insurance. I felt no guilt at taking the money, indeed I deserved it! The state and Federal had been taking money out of both our checks every two weeks to fund programs like this. And if they were to steal from me, then I would surly take back what I was entitiled to. But this also is a great evil of welfare. When a program is set up that a person qualifys to receive aid from do they not derserve! the aid available when in their working lives they themselves have funded the program with the extractions from their pay? State sponsored welfare destroys gratitude.

So I would I would think, based on the words that you write, that you are a good person, kind and compassionate. But you are also the victim of theft. Constant and ongoing theft, and you have no recourse to redress the theft. This has made you angry at the recipients of the beifits of the theft. Pause for a moment and consider who is it you truly dislike, the spic with his noisy radio, or the politican with his fingers in your pay.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:43 - ID#251181)
We have a WINNER
It is my great pleasure to be able to forward you a copy of Charles Mackay's "Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and The Madness of Crowds," written in 1841. You have my email address, please, forward me your physical address, and you will join a select band of kitcovites to receive this most noble text.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:46 - ID#288264)
They just keep stirring it up!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:52 - ID#341227)

Dear Rabbi:

I thought I would send you the enclosed joke, despite the protests of
several friends who thought you might take offense.

They suggested the joke is somewhat ribald in nature, therefore it might
be in bad taste to send you a copy ( since you are a Rabbi ) . However, it
seems that they are probably far too conservative in their
interpretation of the joke.

After all, we are living in a "new" enlightened America, right?

In keeping with the mentality of America's most "inspiring" Chief
Executive, I realized that the reference to "pecker" does NOT
necessarily refer to a man's depends upon one's
interpretation. A pecker can have several meanings, for example,
according to the dictionary, it might also mean either "courage" or

Also, in the joke, there is mention of a fart, yet it would be
presumptious of anybody to think that my interpretation of the word is
anything other than the dictionary definition as follows: "an old
person regarded as a fool or nuisance."

So, there you have it, Rabbi...please do not feel insulted by my
conveying this joke to you. After all, like our friend Clinton, I am a
decent type, often misunderstood by those around me who prefer to see
the seamy side of my personality rather than its clearly pure essence.

Enjoy, enjoy.

Best Regards,

First Lady Hillary Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno were having
one of those girl to girl talks, and Hillary says to Janet, "You're
lucky that you don't have to put up with men having sex with you. I have
to pput up with Bill, and there is no telling where he last had his

Janet responded, "Just because I am esthetically challenged ( that's
"politically correct" for ugly ) doesn't mean I don't have to fight off
unwelcome sexual advances."

Hillary asks, "Well, how do you deal with the problem?"

Janet, "Whenever I feel that a guy is getting ready to make a pass at
me, I muster all my might and squeeze out the loudest, nastiest fart
that I can."

That night, Bill was already in bed with the lights out when Hillary
slips into bed. She could hear him start to stir, and knew that he
would be wanting some action. She had been saving her farts all day,
and was ready for him.

She tenses up her butt cheeks and forces out the most disgusting
sounding fart you could imagine.

Bill rolls over and says, "Janet, is that you?"

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:55 - ID#286230)
You have made a few incorrect statements about Canada and immmigration. Much of Manitoba and Saskatchewan has been settled by immigrants from Russia and Europe since the beginning of the century. Finns and Italians have settled in Northern Ontario during the same period. Many parts of Quebec have been settled by Scots. Toronto is the largest Italian speaking city outside of Italy. Chinese are in every major city and have been for over a hundred years. Montreal is one of the largest French speaking cities in the world.

Where you get the idea that the US is "greater" than Australia and Canada is probably less based in fact but also a mystery.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 00:58 - ID#408170)
Their area of search has been in the mountains of North Carolina
but you could be right. However, these were flying in the opposite
direction. About a year ago some "Black Opps" staged an assault on
downtown Charlotte in the middle of the night. Sacred the hell out of
everyone, explosions automatic weapons fire etc. The newspaper said
only the mayor new about it but was silenced. I think there were a few
hart-attacks because of the ruckus.
If one looks down all the time one fails to see the whole picture...yes.
Being aware is a full time job.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:15 - ID#187109)
delphi at bollinger...
Your bollinger band gold chart ( 20:10 ) is compelling. A straddle would be a good move. I think I'll join ya.

My straddle will have more 'weight' to the downside..........ohmy! I am using other 'measures' to base my decision.....stochastics is one ..........trend is ANOTHER......break out your straight edges everyone and start marking up those charts................tick-tock, tick-tock...........hum-dee-dum.......................... w/w


It ain't gonna be pretty

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:18 - ID#20359)
Aurator, Namaste' gulp and a puff...send me a test email... thanks...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:25 - ID#187109)
I know some of you really like this baby. I think I want to own some of it during the next bull ( whenever the hell that'll be.....ugh ) .......can I get some help from my kitco friends on this?
away.....for the eve

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:25 - ID#20359)
RB, Namaste' gulp and a is very odd to me that such missions are deemed
important in civilian what end...what purpose...America certainly has changed...yes...indeedy...yup..uh huh...and the best part is We the People fund it and yet we are kept in the dark for our own "GOOD."...ah yeah...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:25 - ID#386245)
The Wink ( 1/10 oz ) REAL money is ON!!

Yanqui go golf imperialism about to meet its Waterloo at The President's Cup, Melbourne.

The Wink Museum in expansion mode???

Harrr Harrr Harrr Arrrrgggghh. Pirates of the South Seas about to raid the Californy Coast and plunder The Wink Museum!!
Auratorius to hold the dueling pist...errr...act as guarantor of the wink. Twenty lashes on the mainmast and a keelhaul for the defaulter!!!

Har,Harr,Harrr!!! Barbarous-Relics-R-Us.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:31 - ID#219363)
Did I win ?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:31 - ID#285430)
OK prognosticators, psychics and seers... break out tealeaves
Hey folks, I'm playing this silly game on the web at where you "gamble" play money over real-world
events. One of the 'bets' that you can wager on at this site
is the question: "Will the price of silver be at or above $5.00
per ounce on December 31st?" ( ) yes ( ) no

The skill as relates to the game is to find a fair price for the
"silver below $5.00" contract. Most people there seem to believe
it will probably be below $5.00, and they seem to think that it's
about 75% certain that this will be so.

So lemme take an informal poll... what are the odds that silver
busts $5.00 by the end of the month?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:34 - ID#219363)
Nevermind, I see T1 already won *pout*.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:38 - ID#372214)
where is the price of gold going in the near future....up or or two weeks....................

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:41 - ID#219363)
Low Prices Make Hog Debate Moot
OMAHA, Neb. ( AP ) -- The David-and-Goliath debate between giant hog facilities and small, independent operations may be a waste of energy -- at least as long as producers are losing $25 to $30 a hog, producers and analysts say. "When prices are this low, no one is thinking about expansion," said Gale Schafer, agriculture operations manager for Sand Livestock Systems Inc. of Columbus. Though Sand Livestock intends to complete projects already under way in western Nebraska, other plans for expansion have been put on hold. "I think all of us in the business are reassessing those plans," Schafer said. "There ( aren't ) really a lot of domestic projects that are too attractive to us at this time. This has been devastating."
More news-bits from the commodity producers.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:43 - ID#413109)
Dear Mr. *F* for Farfal
I'm not a rabbi, and I'm not a judge,
but I am familiar with jokes, as I send
many to many daily.
May I suggest that your sense of humor could
be better served with an email, as I don't think
you would tell that one to you daughter, maybe your
wife, and surely not your old mother!?!?

I'm also not looking for a reply or a drawn out battle,
as this is not the place.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:45 - ID#20359)
Silas_Marner, tomo, Namaste' gulps and puffs all around...silver huh...I think it will still be
below $5.00 ( look for a sharp up move now..fate don't ya know ) now gold is a complete unknown...I have a gut feeling it starts moving upwards in a zig zag pattern...I think January and or February could see substantial gains considering the financial and political instability everywhere around the globe...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:47 - ID#372214)
gold is probably going to 280 why not...........

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:48 - ID#219363)
I think you're being too optimistic.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:49 - ID#20359)
and with that...Namaste'
and a good day or evening to one and all...thud...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:50 - ID#372214)
so 272 ......

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:53 - ID#219363)
I guess in the end, who can say. *smile*. We'll have to watch it come out on the tape. I don't see anything keeping it above 270 though. I'm the first to admit I don't have much of a record with the POG, however.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:54 - ID#219363)
Away ...
To my warm and cozy bed.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 01:56 - ID#372214)
breaks recent lows....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:01 - ID#219363)
This isn't the kind of trend I want to bet against.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:07 - ID#240155)
were the bestor spellors two

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:07 - ID#240155)
Re: your corrections of inaccuracies in my nationalistic little rant. Thanks, your right I don't know much about Canadian History. As for your displeasure with my indicating that US is or was greater than Canada and Austrailia, I can only say in the subject line of the post I indicated it was US Centric, and regardless of the facts of the case in the rest of the world, in the United States, it is commonly accepted that we are the greatest nation that has ever existed. They teach that in the schools. If you doubt that I would refer you to Gamblers posts, an individual who believes this. They really DO teach that in the schools, however my understanding is that a sifnificant portion of graduating High Schools students are so poor at geography that they believe that Alberta is a state in the US, or at least the capital city of some state.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:08 - ID#413109)
".can I get some help from my kitco friends on this? "
EB ,old buddy.....

Looking for an opinion on the chart you provided..... it looks interesting
but when looking a little, just a little further, it, like many others look to
this writer like a SCREAMING "BUY". WHY???
Well it's come down nicely, it's had time to base, nicely, ...... and in making
a basing pattern it gives us an additional "+", and that is increasing volume.

If ever you should consider a long term position, this with its friends the other
gold and silver mining shares are looking to prepare for take-off.

If you feel they're about to dive south, well I for one would think this even a
better chance to load up at even lower prices, but I think not. The chances here
IMHO are that we're about to change direction shortly.

You ask when,, I don't know, but soon!!!!!
Hit 'em long straight, and not too often!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:13 - ID#20359)
one final note for the evening or day as the case may be...Envy...I acquiesce in the
Captain Haddock contest as the presentation of your answer is far more deserving than my mere words on a page...Aurator shall be in touch so that you may lay claim to your rightful prize...ENJOY!


(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:17 - ID#386245)
XAU 35...
...would make a nice parallel channel, n'est pas??

I hope not, caus I hate to think of the POG that would produce it. You must think of the unthinkable, and have your stop losses in place ( mentally ) . Nothing is guaranteed in this world.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:20 - ID#255284)
Tolerant1 has offered you his prize for Capt. Haddock. If you email tol1 at his email given earlier below, he'll pass it to me and we shall discuss how to get this tome to Merka, Yes?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:26 - ID#257312)
Know Your Customer-- It Has Arrived!

I went to get a haircut today. ( no, I didn't buy more Homestake ) It was a place called Great Clips, a real clip joint. Great Clips is like the McDonalds of haircutting. Well, on the cash register was a sign that read, "By Knowing Our Customers, We Can Serve You Better." I thought, Hmmmm. This is odd. That sign was not there 3 weeks ago. The first words out of the lady's mouth were, "What is your phone number?" Startled, I replied a bit sarcastically, "I forget." I miss the old barber shops. I remember getting haircuts as a kid when they had those barber poles and the air was thick with cheap cigar smoke. Got to look at the Playboy magazines while my brother, Cupric, got his hair cut. America would be a better place if we still had institutions.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:30 - ID#257312)

Last sentence should say "if we still had such institutions"

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:34 - ID#255284)
I remember the smell of barber shops. Thanks for evoking the synsthesia!

America still has institutions, it's just that the institutions have gotten so large that the inmates are running the asylum, like an SF plot, the prison has got so large, you just can't tell inside from out... Ah. But what do I know?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:34 - ID#372214)
too all shorts
you are f----d today believe cannot change the tape.....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:35 - ID#240155)
while my brother, Cupric
this is great, do you have any other siblings?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:35 - ID#372214)
this thing is rocking today...................

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:38 - ID#372214)
the last one holding the bag gets ...................

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:40 - ID#372214)
the last one holding the the bag.................

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:45 - ID#372214)
the last one holding the bag gets DROKE..........

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:46 - ID#240155)
link to y2k site talk about PM
and list of companies whose fical year starts in Jan 99 and might possibly have Jo Anne Effect problems.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:47 - ID#257312)

Two sisters as well, Argenta and Platina. True story here--Had a baseball coach in Little League named Golden Silvers.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:48 - ID#240155)
Yen @ 117.20 how long till 10 yen for a dime?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 02:57 - ID#372214)
finally this thing is happening....RALLY............

(Thu Dec 10 1998 03:01 - ID#372214)
droke helpt this rally along..............

(Thu Dec 10 1998 03:03 - ID#372214)
now we can buy gold ......for sure.....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 03:07 - ID#372214)
all droke followers are selling .......BUY.......

(Thu Dec 10 1998 03:17 - ID#240155)
Something is happening to US$ Can someone look to
verify if the dollar is falling hard?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 03:19 - ID#224230)
Quick Poll Time ? UK Rate Cuts due later
So what do we think ? They're way out of kilter with the Europeans...

A quarter, a half or even three quarters of a percent ? Effects on POG ?
It's a nice sunny day here.... : )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 03:28 - ID#372214)
the uk currency is going to gey hammered if they do not sucum to eu......

(Thu Dec 10 1998 03:30 - ID#372214)
gold is rocking......rite now......

(Thu Dec 10 1998 03:59 - ID#240155)
I can't see where gold is rockin, where are you looking?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 04:01 - ID#258195)
Wednesday's Gold and Silver Lease Rates
For Wednesday 9th Dec calculated from data published in Today's FT.
Period------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month

Mean GoldLR------4.13---------------4.03-------------3.72-----------------3.48
Gold Lease Rate---1.46---------------1.22-------------1.37-----------------1.52
( Change ) ------ ( + 0.02 ) ------- ( 0.00 ) ------- ( - 0.02 ) ----------- ( 0.00 )

Silver Lend Rate----3.85--------------3.10-------------2.25-----------------1.90
Silver Lease Rate---1.74--------------2.15--------------2.74-----------------3.10
( Change ) --------- ( + 0.20 ) -------- ( + 0.20 ) --------- ( + 0.10 ) ------------ ( + 0.20 )
$LIBOR = BBA London rate fixed at 11am
Mean Gold Lending Rates and Silver Lending Rates are supplied to the FT by NM Rothschild
Lease Rate = $LIBOR minus Lending Rate .
( Change ) = change in lease rates since previous day

For comparison with $LIBOR, the FT rates for US Dollar CD's ( mid rates ) are as follows:
Period------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month
US$ CD's-----------4.82-------------4.74---------------4.72---------------4.68

(Thu Dec 10 1998 04:12 - ID#203137)
Gold moving in direct inverse proportion to $US/YEN

(Thu Dec 10 1998 04:15 - ID#252391)
Dollar down right across the board - about 50-70 points against all the major currencies including the Canadian and Australian dollars. I have gold up between 50 and 80 cents. PD at $290 Pt up a couple of bucks.

Gold is doing a creeping climb - not quite a rock unless something has happened in the last 20 minutes. S&P off 350 points.

Given the total lack of interest in metal stocks among the investing community ( almost total ) and the super deflationary trend in effect with the CRB being well advertised by the media and CNBC, tax loss selling is winning the day, but it would seem the base is being built for an unexpected spurt. If gold can't be broken here, maybe it won't be.
I'd like to know what is happening with precious metal mutual funds - whether or not thay are experiencing outflows - I'd like to think they are. If anybody has information on that I'd love to have it. ANy web sites update the total assets of precious metal mutual funds on a more than quarterly basis.???

Stillwater Mining ( PD and PT ) challenging its all time highs of 37 1/2 set only a week or so ago. Stock to split 3 for 2 on December 21st. This is the internet stock of the precious metal group. Tripling production in three years if all goes well - only 37 million shares outstanding after the split - 72% held by institutions. Pre split shares will see $50 by April if PD and PT maintain last weeks levels ( note they are higher now ) . First quarter earnings of 50 cents will surprise the street.

Note: these are my bias opinions, I'm long this stock.....

South African golds up less than a percent.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 04:22 - ID#403195)

Well certainly /Canada/ would be a greater country if it still had institutions. The asylum in Vancouver is like a university campus, fine old buildings amid broad lawns and overlooking a long stretch of stream bordered by a copse. It is also an arboretum. ( It is so fine a place, in fact, it makes a fellow think about committing himself. ) Today the huge old buildings are nearly all vacant; the nuts have been put out onto the street. They are downtown sleeping in lanes, drawing welfare, panhandling and scaring old ladies.

A few have been put into houses in residential districts. There they wander about the neighbours' yards and scare little children.

To get the country back to an even keel, we need the nuts back inside and barber shops equipped with those special calendars we used to see in the 1950's, that cheap cigar smoke and cuspidors.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 04:31 - ID#386245)
Pork Bellies up 5.7%
Is this the CRB turnaround??
Feb. gold up$1.20.
Silver up 5.5 cents.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 04:36 - ID#434189)
We of course have the same sad situation in the US due to the libs claiming it was a violation of their civil liberties to commit them without their consent. That makes great sense, to libs of course. Now what has happened seems to totaly escape their attention. Who could possibly claim it is better for the poor souls or the public? When the libs cause suffering they just close their eyes. Nice feat if you can do it. :- (

(Thu Dec 10 1998 04:36 - ID#252391)
Good future charts - Palladium

THC - my "buddy" has his clients long March PD at 271, 274 and 284. Most positions were bought at 271 and 274 the day before yesterday. After PD fills the gap at 290 he said he'd buy any $9 break from a high. Would liquidate in an orderly fashion ( not on stops ) if $270 is broken.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 04:42 - ID#26793)
Japanese long treasury bond reacts downward as government prints money

(Thu Dec 10 1998 04:51 - ID#26793)
Low Australian dollar making miners takeover targets

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:01 - ID#411440)
LEASE RATES: Thanks Dabchick for providing your invaluable
lease rate figures. I might draw the attention of the group to
the across the board jump in silver lease rates. If this was
a jump in just one month leases, I would be warning everyone that
silver was about to be hit by another round of short selling.
A .20% increase almost right across the board indicates that
silver is a stirring in the opposite direction.

I might remind this group that COMEX stocks for silver are beginning
to slide again. All this speaks of a general tightening of
liquididty, which is contrary to much of the sentiment amongst
traders and the Kitco Forum.

Is this yet another symptom of the slide in the US dollar?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:03 - ID#372214)
gold is rockin........&1.40

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:03 - ID#411440)
WARNING: I am about to buy gold again. Everytime I have
done this, gold has tanked. I just thought the group should know.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:11 - ID#372214)
look when DROKE cancels his ticket on gold and it rises $1.40 ithink it is rocking.......THANKYOU............

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:16 - ID#240155)
Yea, but I am looking at Feb Gold and although it is up the volume is 6. Theres no big swell here, When New York opens, it may continue up, but the first minute of trade will be more than all night tonight.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:17 - ID#372214)
when the the last of the three gold analysts go south then i know that it is time to buy......... we just lost one.,.....think about it.....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:19 - ID#240155)
my last post volume was way wrong, wrong chart

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:33 - ID#372214)
you guys and tour charts....sometimrs just put them in tour back pocket......

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:33 - ID#367411)
To Jim re Pd
Hi Jim!

Thanks for the update!

All I can say is that I am in awe of your friend's timing! Is he always this good? Rockin' hard!!!

Now, what is his target?? Does he think the rally will hold this time??

I will be watching this one with interest!



(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:46 - ID#372214)
why is gold up over $1.00..tell me.....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:55 - ID#240155)
tomo I don't know why it's up over $1
I'm glad it is, and I hope it marks a trend that will continue.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:55 - ID#233199)
Don't worry..... won't last...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:58 - ID#367411)
Pd is on FIRE!!!!!
$294.5 and still rising......

(Thu Dec 10 1998 05:59 - ID#240155)
$1 isn't much
Gold is up .37% Silver is up .83% It's nice but....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 06:13 - ID#31876)
Jon Dougherty -- "We'll probably never know just how badly we've all been had."

(Thu Dec 10 1998 06:15 - ID#252391)
Good day to you,

My "buddy" is pretty good - really sometimes I just think its just the gutts to do what everybody is affraid to do based on recent experience. Buying the day before yesterday when the price rallied $3-4 and took out the highs of the previous several days looks in hindsight to be a no brainer but I'm always affraid of the market going right back down and loosing. Not being affraid to lose seems very important to my friends success - but they if you don't loose to much you don't learn bad habits. He doesn't have specific targets for the upside, but is in for the long haul. His normal style is to work trending markets from one side buying on breaks not being too worried about hitting every minor top.

He is also very bullish on gold for '99 seeing as many do $400 as a good possibility. He's not long yet but I sense soon will be. He wouldn't disclose his specific plans.

Oh well,

Good luck on you Silver options

(Thu Dec 10 1998 06:15 - ID#286230)
I have no doubt that that they teach in the US that the US that it is "commonly accepted that we are the greatest nation that has ever existed" But it isn't commmonly taught that that is the case throught out the world.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 06:24 - ID#252391)
To Selby
I think the US of A is the greatest. And I agree with you there are doubters in other countries....however, there are many who subjectively and objectively concur and wish they could be Americans, too.

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 06:26 - ID#371242)
There is gold up there in those hills
here take a good look every one
lot's of gold there

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 06:29 - ID#371242)
there is gold in those mountain everyone should take a look

(Thu Dec 10 1998 06:34 - ID#43349)
Getting a foot in the door

(Thu Dec 10 1998 06:40 - ID#240155)
the US Dollar is nearly back to where it was
at the beginning of the night. ???

(Thu Dec 10 1998 07:04 - ID#225147)
US trade deficit surges to 260 Billion: Where do those Billions go for investment?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 07:20 - ID#225236)
Until now they DID go to the USA, but do not make the mistake that it will last forever. The fact that it happened at all is actually very BAD news for the USA. Some points:

1. There are other ways to piss away ( real ) money. You do not have to give it to the US government as loans or prompt the US market with it.

2. A classical way to "piss away" excess capital earned through superior trade was to build up your military, and this is how the political power would always be following economical power.

3. Rather than be happy about the foreign influx in moth stock marker and the bonds, one should worry. The Chinese and Japanese now have the power ( each of them alone, and much bigger combined ) to pull the plug on US economy. Whenever they fill like, they can say "bye, bye suckers" and US stock market, the US dollar, are history.

4. Borrowing more money than the other guy does not make you stronger.

5. What makes anyone think that China or Japan do anything so ( in the long run ) the US would be happy and not their own people?

6. The whole idea of "Service Economy" is a joke. You cannot have a healthy economy with half of people peddling foreign made goods, and the other collecting coke cans.

It is Bye, Bye time.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 07:44 - ID#35571)
Clickity click click clickity click click

(Thu Dec 10 1998 07:45 - ID#26793)
London morning currency news. Note Norwegian and Saudi problems.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 07:46 - ID#35571)
Those who are creditors would not be doing themselves any favor to pull the plug on the economy of those who are debtors.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 07:51 - ID#26793)
London morning precious metal news

(Thu Dec 10 1998 07:57 - ID#217338)
My question is exactly where do those DOLLARS NEXT SHOW, are they invested in US Bonds- Stocks or somewhere outside the US. Asuming that they are reinvested in US Stocks that alone would be a huge factor in keeping the US Markets propped up at ridiculous levels.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 08:07 - ID#333127)
I don't see any support???

Charleston Gold Bug
(Thu Dec 10 1998 08:24 - ID#344389)
Xau support
XAU has possible support at 64 and 60.
If gold stays steady or rises we
may never see these levels.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 08:26 - ID#249244)
Tolerant1, reg: food aid for Russia
My brother, article is very much correct. I do not believe
any sizeable food aid ever reached the place it was needed
most of all...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 08:39 - ID#333127)
Charleston Gold Bug
I agree to minor support at 60,IMHO

(Thu Dec 10 1998 08:47 - ID#255226)
XAU - Sould bottom between 58 - 60.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Dec 10 1998 08:53 - ID#348257)
inching...inching...toward that critical 297.50.

Cross it and we go to 310 rapidamente. 370 by Spring ( April? ) .

Fail, and we go back to test 279-280ish for a triple bottom.


(Thu Dec 10 1998 08:57 - ID#35571)
Clickity clock clickity click clickety click
inching up the grade

(Thu Dec 10 1998 08:58 - ID#35571)
@Mike Sheller
Over the top and down the mountain, around dead man's curve or not?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 09:04 - ID#367411)
To APH re KISS Account

I always enjoy reading your posts. Thank you for your generosity in sharing your thoughts.

I've got a couple of questions regarding the KISS program:

1. Am I correct in assuming you will be trading futures rather than options? If so, why do you prefer futures?

2. It looks like the PMs are getting restless.....if silver fails to hit the KISS buy target, do you have a backup entry plan?

Thanks again for all of your help.


(Thu Dec 10 1998 09:09 - ID#35571)
Illustraion's for The Great Legend
The approaching top of the double spike:

The approaching crash at dead man's curve:

The approaching flight of the silver falcon:

The approaching rebirth of the golden Phoenix:

Others will be the great second wall, rebirth of the Phoenix from the ashes of dead man's curve.

The story continues....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 09:12 - ID#35571)
Ooops, I left out the approaching double spike

Charleston Gold Bug
(Thu Dec 10 1998 09:16 - ID#344389)
Gold & XAU
It seems IMHO gold may need to break
below $290 cash, at least, for the 60 level on the XAU
to break. The drop below 60 the end of Audust
was a Panic spike bottom with gold below $280 .
The XAU is selling below where it was during the October lows when gold
was around $290. Maybe we are being a
bit to bearish?

Cage Rattler
(Thu Dec 10 1998 09:36 - ID#33184)
Any ideas what is behind performance of dollar vs swiss franc?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 09:51 - ID#339274)
Long 18 1/8

(Thu Dec 10 1998 09:52 - ID#176235)
As per the Wall St. Journal uncharged at $11.04 billion.
Have a good days.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 09:56 - ID#176235)
Should read day. Have a good one.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:01 - ID#372228)
quion97 - US Gold
Was that $11 Billion gold valued at $42/oz or $290/oz.? Thank you.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:02 - ID#169332)
@"esotericist" and "fear of gold"

I wish to answer your interesting reply to my post of 12/09/98 08:28 regarding "fear of gold". I'll have to delay a completer response ( perhaps encroaching on your "esoteric" turf? No ! ) for today. This is a start, hovever.
The power to create fiat money is the basic thing . The dollar, T-bonds are overvalued in terms of real things. The stock market is a very small part of the whole. Trying to "ease" the dollar and "let" gold rise  the same old policy  should have been attempted several years ago, perhaps? A "strong" dollar then benefitted whom, primarily? Did it strengthen our nation? We became a debtor nation. I don't know if there was a better way possible at the time, and I wasn't in a position to know. Now I watch the dollar and T-bonds: that will determine what happens with gold, until something similar, something tangible , perhaps, eventually, considering the resources of each country in a fair way ( not necessarily natural resources ) . Competitive devaluations and trade wars are a danger now. I don't see deflation in natural resources, oil.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:08 - ID#176235)
Trader Vic
Article only mentions the total dollar value of the US gold reserves.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:08 - ID#372228)
DOW - Head and Shoulders top (Medium Size)
I noticed a H&S top which formed in the last month, with a neckline at about 8900...a break ot this neckline would bring the dow down to 8300-8400 for a retest of the support level...if this fails, we would see next major support at about 7400-7500.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:10 - ID#339274)
making a run

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:11 - ID#45173)
Going into debt to other nations was our plan, not theirs
From the Baltic Banking Group:
"In 1982, many of America's largest financial institutions, when all assets were marked to market, had negative net
worth. Worthless loans to third world countries, a 23% prime rate, 15% inflation and corresponding yield on 30 year
government bonds had left multi billion dollar holes in the balance sheets of the likes of Equitable Life and many of the
money center banks. The solution was to make the USA the world's largest tax haven for foreign nationals not resident
in the USA. This was a deliberate conscious policy choice made by the people who control USA monitory and fiscal
policy. This was done by first making bank deposits and Federal Government debt tax-free and then later extending that
to state and municipal government debt and finally too private corporate debt. Trillions came pouring in. Since the DM,
BP, FF, and SFr could be used to buy foreign goods and services, this permitted a higher level of spending without
domestic consumer inflation. The inflation in asset prices has been spectacular: over 1,000% for the DJIA."

It was a simple plan, a variation on the theme: if you owe the bank enough money, you own the bank. In this way, we own Japan, for example. This principle supplies the financial stability of the system necessary for the financial markets. And so far, the plan has worked perfectly. Interest rates are low, inflation is low, employment is high, asset values are soaring. Perfection.

But there has been one unintended side-effect. Deflation.

The system enocouraged a growing current account imbalance between the US debtor economy and a bunch of Asian creditor export economies, which must produce ever more at lower prices to compete with each other for a slice of market pie presented by the debtor, a market which was growing more slowly than it had in 30 years. As more Asian nations got into the export game, competition for the US market intensified. Eventually the export economies beat each other up to the point that there was a crisis, as occurred in 1997. This created an even more desperate effort on the part of the export nations to product even more at even lower prices to preserve their economies. Meanwhile, other nations, New Zealand to Switzerland, also see cheap imports washing up on their shores, competing with locally manufactured goods. Eventually, everyone, even the US to the extent that it relies on exports for part of its GDP, gets caught up in the race to increase capacity to compete at the lowest cost.

The best scenario from here is that the Asian export economies gradually evolve into consumer economies to absorb excess capacity. The US debtor economy gradually sells more debt in the US to compensate for the loss of foreign buying. However, if deflation continues, Asian nations will not be able to build consumer economies as their people will not have any money to spend. This is the problem that Japan has today. Eventually these economic problems become political problems.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:17 - ID#187109)
Nick@C - I will contact Aurobetteratorholder. It should be berry good. Both are formidable opponents..........indeedy. I trust we will be watchin some brilliant match play.........uh huh.

Construction on the new wing will begin shortly :- ) How much gold is in that Koala Koin?? I will need to inform my insurance agent who holds the policy on the museum ;- )

If'n ya don't have one yet ( winky koala ) ...........Ya might want to wait to buy it.......just a wee bit, eh?.... ( more grins ) .

Winky Dinky Doodle Dandy

Give me some of that Candy!

GO GOLF! the links...........ohmy!



Spud Master
(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:18 - ID#273112)
@PCM and the notion of the US as a "debtor" nation...
Let's see ... we got their ( the Loaner's ) physical goods ... they got our pieces of paper ( Federal Reserve Notes, T Bills ) , but mostly ethereal numbers ( minute magnetic domains on ferrite media ) ...


#1 Who is going to collect against the US, eh? Maybe you can shake Koreans, or Thais or Brazilians, ram IMF austerity down their throats, but us Americans? Screw it - you fools took our paper and gave us the work of the sweat of your brow. Don't do it next time.

#2 There is no longer any SHAME at being a debtor. As more than a few Kitoites could testify --- the "shame" is being a fool who believes that money is unforgable gold and silver. The US whore press repeat this endlessly.

#3 We've corrupted and rotted out just about every government in the planet with blandishments of ever sort -- does anyone care anymore? Just keep that US dollar Ponzi scheme going as long as possible and damn the future.

On the other hand, there is *always* a reckoning, no matter how hard the conartists, criminals and thugs we call politicians try to avoid it.


Spud, Drop the Euro on the Federal Reserve, fuze for ground burst!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:20 - ID#255226)
Kiss Account - I would use only futures. I try to stay away from options. IMO options give you a false sense of security, a trader pre determines how much they are willing to lose then lose it. Most people buy a strike price to far out, the market doesn't make it to the strike and they lose but if in a futures contract you still have your money plus. If you're a techie its hard to measure the exact entry price or exit due to the premium swings. You can't leverage your profits without selling out first. There are some traders who have the nack for options and do very well. I just feel there is less risk in futures then options.

There is no backup for the Kiss account,its only activated if silver hits 4.40. I consider 4.40 a point of minimum risk and a point to buy for maximum exposure. That window of opportunity intra day will proabily will be no more then 30 minutes. for myself if silver has a couple closes above 5.00 it would put me on the long side. But the possability of pulling back under 4.80 would still be there. In either case the objective is 7.50 - 8.00.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:25 - ID#343259)
qtr doing good this am
arp should be fun to watch over the next few days,
juniors are breathing again!
lets hope gold gets off its dead arse...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:26 - ID#372228)
One of the main reasons that the US dollar remained strong for so long was the investing in US stocks and bonds during this whole bull market move...look at the dollar chart next to the dow or bonds and you will see a was also the desire for the gov't to keep the dollar strong...but IMHO, I see this waining, especially with the stock market about to tank and the conversion of dollars for ECU's in foreign countries thru-out all of 1999....Also, look at the trade deficit numbers which just came out today...$61 Billion/Q3 and rising....that equals about $250 Billion/ we trade one deficit for the other and the total debt continues to increase past $6 Trillion the economy slows into year 2000, there is only one path for the gov't to follow...that is to inflate the currency...or devalue, which is the same thing. As I see it, all of this will change when Bill Clinton is impeached and thrown out of that time all the financial deviates will come unravelled....IMHO, this will happen either way, even if BC doesn't get thrown out of office....the bubble is about to pop and I want to be on the first train out of Clintonville when it happens...Gollum, did you hear that...did you save me that first class cabin on the "Gollum Express"? You wouldn't be headed for the midwest to pick-up Warren Buffett now would you?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:32 - ID#350194)
Final Call! ALL 6Paks and other assorted BUGS! Sat. Dec. 12 - Toronto area Kitcoite Luncheon
6 Pak - Be there or be Square! I'm marking you in as I saw your Kitco post to that effect, but Any others who would like to attend please e-mail me @ so I have exact numbers, as I can't scan this screen 24 hours a day! For a taste of what the rest of you are missing here is an excerpt from my latest communique to participants:
" ...Hello Everyone!
Just a final reminder that the table Reservations were made under 'Mooney' and not Kitco.

****ALSO the table has been Reserved from 12:30 and so you may arrive at your convenience from 12:20 onwards.****

I quess we'll do our round robin intro speech at 1:00 to make sure everybody's present by then. Just a quick, "I'm ... and my interest is ... and my present focus is... etc. Short and sweet. ( Ali - you are ABSOLUTELY limited to five minutes until after the deserts! ;- )
Expect 'about' 15 of us, Including our 4 out-of-towners. No one beats Reify ( and lovely Yvette ) flying in from Israel last summer, but Ali Flying in from Calgary, Alta., and Quixotic1 flying in from Concord, N.H. make for healthly runer-ups! Plus we have Mike Stewart driving in from Cambridge ( Ont. ) and a gentleman I believe posts under 'Farmer' coming in from Kitchener/Waterloo area. Sam_A, Steve in TO, Rhody, bmacd ( also bringing Goldbug father! ) , MoinTO, Selby , myself, and 6Pak are also expected. Accolades and regrets have been sent in from around the globe!
Last minute cancellations include, ( unfortunately tied up ) , the gentleman from the Toronto Stock Brokerage firm whom I had previously mentioned. It is too bad that this meeting did not take place a few weeks ago. We all might have taken a flyer on a stock that he was investigating and been much wealthier going into the shopping malls. He has just returned from a trip to Argentina to investigate ARGENTINA Gold, the takeover candidate that Barrick bid $5.50 for yesterday. Before the trip of anaylsts headed down TWO WEEKS ago ( Nov. 30th ) that stock was trading at about $2.25-2.50! NOT a ten-bagger but 140% in two weeks would do just nicely thank-you!
I expect that a great time will be had by all, but that it will all fly by too quickly and so my suggestion is, that for anyone who is game, we continue the party by taking a brisk walk for a while and then reconvening in a friendly neighbourhood gathering place.
AAR - Everyone remember to bring an item of interest if you can.
CU There!
And Seasons Greetings to ALL around this fair globe!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:35 - ID#187109)
The of Reif........Reifydude....
I see some sporadic volume on gold......not increasing. And overbought Stochs......and kitco sentiment is approachingVERY high levels........and this dude 'tome' who has it in for the shorts this a.m. Gold does not perform well in December ( although that doesn't mean squat to me ) . The trend still looks down ( weekly ) .....maybe ;- ) . Someone mentioned that gold is still under it's 200MA.

oh hell, I just like goin against the grain. Perhaps it will pay off.......perhaps it is foolish........tick-tock, had better GIDDYUP! await any replies to my TVX question


go golf!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:37 - ID#372228)
Junior Mining Company
If you are looking for a promising Junior mining company which has extremely promising properties, I suggest that you look at Yamana Resources...they just completed another drill program and the results are outstanding....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:44 - ID#258427)
XAU doing its bouncie .. uppie thingie...
up in cyclist?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:46 - ID#339274)
all indicators
on green ,blast off.When to buy and sell is more important than
what to sell.: )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:47 - ID#224230)
@PCM - my twopennyworth....
Firstly - please feel free to expound - I was of course kidding around yesterday re. "esoteric turf". Be my, and everybody else's guest : )

For your edification and consideration, my interpretation of some aspects of the esoteric P.O.V. on the GOLD subject goes a little like this...

A group of what are referred to as 7th Ray Souls with particular "expertise" in finance have been incarnating during the last 75 years or so. And they are the first generation with the ability to develop these skills.

Ultimately more and more will incarnate who will be able to reorganise the financial/energetic aspects of the planet into the 21st century.

It would appear, rather human naturally, that these people are too naturally selfish to be able to use these insights for the greater good - and are rather using them to buy Ferraris and Porsches and large houses in Maine.

How many 10's of millions does one man need for heavens sake ?

GOLD - I know this personal assertion is contentious round here, but I'm guessing that the departure from the gold standard was a somewhat premature idealistic expression of a future possibility...

.... that in some ways rigid adherence to the gold standard MIGHT have held back some aspects of overall human financial systems development - that could have resulted in greater worldwide good.

Because emotionally sensed IDEALS come before intellectually grasped IDEAS - and have to be experimented with - that right now we're learning what havoc can be wreaked without a more unselfishly implemented world financial system.

And in conclusion ...that we may FOR A SHORT TIME - either return to a Gold Standard, or see a gold price explosion which will so "discredit" ( literally ! ) a whole tribe of financiers - so as to leave them with very little scope to play their games - and in some respects this will represent a step backwards in our human affair evolution...

Which chaotic situation will bring them to heel as a group and put very many of them completely out of work. OR reassemble world financial systems and thus give them something unselfish and constructive to play a positive part it

A worldwide agreement on rules for a international financial disciplines will finally allow us TO LEAVE THE GOLD STANDARD once and for all.

Hence my anticipation of a short gold boom ( for how long I have NO IDEA - until the penny drops I suppose ) , followed ultimately by a fall in its price - perhaps to its historical mean, when it returns finally to be purely a commodity and priced as such.

But we're up against the combined stubborn willfulness of that whole tribe of highly influential financiers who know precisely what the implications of a gold price breakout are.

An end to their games. For quite some time.

But there are, of course, tens of thousands of them in every major country - they're very smart and they know how to manipulate the game.

In the meantime, if I'm right and my gold/silver late '99 options pay off, I'll be able to buy that Ferrari Dino 1973 that I so desperately covet !

That's about it - somewhat of a precis of the broader structure of philosophy that lies back of MY PERSONAL CONCLUSIONS about it all.

Will it all happen in 1999 ?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:51 - ID#343259)
one caution re: Yamana, check the plan map of the drilling
before investing, looks to be a narrow low tonnage deposit,
I was in and out earlier this year and subsequent results
discouraged vast contained ounce potential IMO.

Queenstake up over 30% this am on strong volume

(Thu Dec 10 1998 10:52 - ID#339274)
74 cent up 18cent.I bet EB has some of them : )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:07 - ID#339274)
18 3/4,on my way to make one month commissions for my broker

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:08 - ID#339274)

Cage Rattler
(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:16 - ID#33184)
Dollar still going down against swiss franc ...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:21 - ID#169332)
EJ and Spudmaster, "debt" and strong dollar

The Baltic analysis and your comments are very interesting. Lots of good info. I can see the banks and multinationals benefitted, and this was a conscious plan by the US. We are reviled abroad for our use of the dollar. It seems to me the US citizens will "pay" for the foreign debt eventually.
Oil is still priced in dollars. This supports the dollar. Don't multinationals own the oil?
If Japan tanks, this directly affects us, then who is the "we" that owns Japan? Japan has larger trade with Asia than with the West in recent years, strong trade with South Africa. Japan can deflate and rebuild, should have faced up years ago..

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:25 - ID#290172)
Gold in dollars, plat in euro
alignment? See chart, 'meeting'

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:33 - ID#284255)
Email chatter - contains gold references
If you are not familiar with the proposed "Know Your Customer" regulations
being foisted upon the banking industry, you absolutely MUST get up to
speed on this. Below are three links that will guide you to all the
information you need:

It is vital that you respond to the FDIC by fax, mail or phone call.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:34 - ID#20359)
oris, Namaste' gulp and a puff and a crunch of the pickel to ya...thanks for your input
on the article...while I respect the opinions of the folks at that web site where the article appeared...I thought you would have special and keen insight on the matter and opinions expressed...

I do pity the Russian people...I know they are a hardy bunch from knowledge of relatives and friends...but they have been screwed by the Communists...Capitalists...politicians...bankers and perhaps even the worst aspect is they have been screwed by the American people who have their heads so far up their ass if the dirtbags in the District of Columbia turned too quickly they would all have broken necks...

On any given day I am proud to be an American and disgusted at the same time...

Cage Rattler
(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:39 - ID#33184)
Dollar going fast ...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:42 - ID#339274)
18 15/16,that is action : )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:44 - ID#35571)
NEM topped at 18 15/16
Now comes the dive?

Cage Rattler
(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:45 - ID#33184)
Hearing rumors that 7 B-52 heading to the Persian Gulf
Anybody hearing the same ?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:46 - ID#339274)
19.5 projection

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:52 - ID#220325)
Check out your mine site, farm, home cottage by satellite at

For $6.00 to $25.00 you can get pictures or a CD of your property as small as 6 ft across. These are taken by Sovinformsputnik agency. This is only informational as I have no financial interest in this company.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:56 - ID#20359)
Cage Rattler, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...just heard the same rumor on the TV
but who knows...America has no foreign policy and has Jack's superlative ass as President...

The USA is going to pay dearly for keeping this pitiful excuse of a President in I have said before...the dimwit Americans will only realize what has happened when the body bags pile up and then as usual they will make the wrong decisions based on iniquitous information...causing more events...that should never happen or be considered in the first place...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:58 - ID#343171)
Cage Rattler
I heard that the B52's were performing for saddam in Baghdad:
'rock lobster...rock lobster'

(Thu Dec 10 1998 11:59 - ID#333127)
Looking good, now what will lunch crowd do????

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:03 - ID#35571)
No! Going on up.
19.5 projection looks good.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:03 - ID#224230)
That;'s right Cooljing....BBC Breaking News
7 B52's winging their merry way to Diego Garcia even as we speak...
Clinton in deep doo doo
Saddam watching CNN to fine tune his political timing

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:05 - ID#339274)
NEM 19 1/8 ,one month commission

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:05 - ID#284255)
Y2K and martial law - this may be old news?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:06 - ID#169332)
trader vic & esotericist re "dollar"

trader vic-
I agree basically. Perhaps the bond market is the key to how far the dollar fallls. If we get involved in two wars abroad ( which we are not well prepared to handle effectively ) , then we might have to repudiate our debt. I wouldn't be surprised if Clinton resigns in February ( so Gore could legally run two times, instead of once ) . I suspect Clinton has always been under control of the interests that backed him and he had no power.
Esotericist -
Very thoughtful. I'll try to respond soon . Maybe I'll have a chat with the Tibetan before about some of your thoughts..

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:14 - ID#269409)
@ Homestake may take over largets Aussie Gold Mine??
Thursday December 10, 2:15 am Eastern Time

Large Australian miners under takeover scrutiny

By James Regan

SYDNEY, Dec 10 ( Reuters ) - Speculation is rife in the Australian share market about potential
takeovers of some of the nation's largest miners.

If a barrage of research and comment among brokerage houses proves correct, Australia's largest gold miner, Normandy Mining
Ltd , a leading producer of uranium and timber products, North Ltd , and zinc and coal miner Savage Resources Ltd are all in play
or about to be.

The Australian dollar sunk to a low of around 55 U.S. cents this year, and has only managed to climb back to around 63. While a
weaker Australian dollar boosts revenues for minerals exporters, it also makes them attractive to offshore predators.

International metals group Billiton Plc ( quote from Yahoo! UK & Ireland: BLT.L ) has led one of the most recent metals takever and is
now in the final throes of a 90 cent a share hostile bid for nickel miner and refiner QNI Ltd in Queensland.

Shares in Normandy, which produced 1.73 million ounces of gold last year, have traded as high as A$1.60 after starting the week
at A$1.47 when a report by Credit Suisse First Boston analyst Michael Slifirski suggested in a report that a takeover by U.S.-based
Homstake Mining Co ( NYSE:HM - news ) was in the cards over the next six months.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:15 - ID#212197)
EJ: Your 10:11 Thanks for sharing yourthoughts with us. I think you shed light on
extremely important aspects of the global economic development of the last decade.

The question which remains open now is this: when does the all-overwhelming deflation steam-roller finally overwhelm the over-inflated stock market? As long as the deflation movement hasn't knocked down the equities it just remains a consumer deflation and not a full blown deflation, a true black whole deflation.

The most important second question for us goldbugs here at kitco is this: will the deflation steam-roller also overwhelm the price of gold, which would show gold being treated like a commodity --- or will gold distance itself from the deflation trend and prove itself to be the savest type of money?

If gold's true character is money, it's value will go up in a full blown deflation. If gold's true charaqcter is a commodity, it's value will go down with all the other commodities. I think it's as simple as that.

I think it will prove it's majestic character as the queen of all currencies. But I'm a goldbug myself. So what can I expect from my own thinking?

There are some rational reasons for this goldbug view of how gold will behave under a full blown deflation. Most important one: there has been and is being created an abundance of money supply out of thin air. This is extremely inflational. This inflational effect is counteracxted by an ambundance of investment capital being invested into production technologies on the one hand and low wage country investments on the other hand. Both of these types of investments have created a level of production which cannot be absorbed by consuption and therefore causes in the first phase consumer price deflation. In the second phase, this must cause also deflation for investment objects, which means companies, factories, steel mills, farms e.t.c.

So we see two antagonistic developments:

- deflation, which makes us think we get more for the dollar
- abundance of creation of dollars, which means inflation and should have the effect of getting lees for the dollar.

If gold can absorb all the inflational effects which result from the above described contradictive ( actually, in an antagonistic manner contradictive! ) effects of the economic and financial markets, which are already in a deflationary catastrophy ( just look at the grains and at the meats and at the steel prices and at the copper ) , my intuitive feeling is that gold could have a healing effect on the global financial and economic mess. Gold could provide the necessary devaluation of currencies, which are in an inflation. Gold could be the medium to prove that currencies are truely inflated, not deflated.

The general deflation, the price loss of consumer and investment goods will have a merciless destructive effect on all industries and countries.
Deflation will destroy all economies if not tamed by gold.

How else can this antagonism between abundant supply of paper money and complete price devaluation of all consumer and investment goods relative to paper money be resolved?

There must reemerge a medium from the dead-said garden of miracles, which will prove that goods have some value and cannot just be thrown after the pigs for worthless paper money. All men have a need that the goods which they produce represent real value. They'll not sell it anymore for paper money. they will demand intrinsic value. Or else they will starve to death.

( Look at the price of hogs where commodities are listed and you'll see that the zero point for certain meats are no more far away. )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:18 - ID#225236)
You owe Japan enough money, you own Japan
This is rather strange statement. While simple on the surface, it assumes a couple of things:

1. Japan's ( and China's ) lending money to the US was done for purely business reasons.

2. The best way Japan can benefit from the situation is to continue the status quo, and keep collect interest.

3. Japan was stupid enough to think they will ever be repaid, so they will suffer.

Well, the rules of the game between countries are slightly different than those between individuals ( for starters, there are no rules ) .

Japan has deep resentment toward the US, always did. Contrary to propaganda in the US, the USification of Japan after WWII was rather ugly matter. Japanese culture was being ridiculed, US has forced US-centric set of laws on them, robbed them of their flag, etc. During US's occupation of Japan, US GI's were roaming the countyside "civilizing the barbarians." Japanese kids were told by their teachers to square dance every time they see a Jeep, so the US soldiers leave them alone. ( some of it continues with recent rapes in Okinawa )

( I am not saying that the treatment was unfair or undeserved -- I am simply analyzing the situation ) .

Anybody who understands psychology will know that such experiences cause a deep desire of revenge ( Japanes shogun culture makes it even stronger ) . This desire was responsible for Japan trying to beat the US economically and they have done that.

People assume that it is against Japan's interest to pull the plug on US dollar becuase they would loose the $500 billion or so that they loaned or invested in the US. If loosing $500 billion was a big deal in an attempt to change the geopolitical situation, we would never have had wars.

Ask youself, what would the world be like if Japan or China pulled the plug on the US dollar?

Well, the US would probably go thermonuclear. This is the only reason I see for Japan willing to suffer the current crisis, and taking the beating for something that was entirely made in the USA. Therefore, for them to take action one of two factors can be met:

1. They ( and/or their allies ) are strong enough to defend themselves from the US

2. The process of de-throning the US dollar is done in such a way that Japan cannot be directly blamed for it

As scenario 1 would be rather difficult, the scenario 2 is what will most likely be played out.

Cage Rattler
(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:20 - ID#33184)
Possible reason for dollar collapse against swiss franc
Heard from chf brokers that delays on Swiss german border due to large volume of traffic....stops both sides including spot check by german tax police....looks as if German domestic investors following the lead of their Big Banks and hedging their exposure to the Euro over the unknowns of the Convergence and nascent periods.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:22 - ID#35571)
The end result is that they would be paid back with highly inflated dollars.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:24 - ID#339274)
Quick trade
Short 19 1/16

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:26 - ID#224230)
Disillusioned (AGAIN) he went to bed.....
I just don't geddit....
Saddam is getting seriously stroppy
Shiny menacing B52's on their way - no need to call Mr. Kofi this time.
WJC - Salem bitchhunt about to move up a serious gear - 6 months of USA political distraction ? Spareus please.
DOW off somewhat - ought to be off a lot.
Flight to Quality Bond action in evidence...

And we're patiently waiting and getting excited about a 20 cents gold rise!

Gimme a break. I'm going to bed. Somebody ICQ Page me when we get a 10% spike.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:27 - ID#269409)
Daily Gold market post of maximum relevance...Loral / Hughes
In order to save some other Kitcoites the trouble, here is the story that most affects Gold and mining share markets. ( Judging by the number of times it's reposted here in it's various forms by JTF, and others )

Thursday December 10 7:26 AM ET

China: Rocket Report Shows U.S. 'Cold War Mentality'

BEIJING ( Reuters ) - China denied Thursday a Pentagon report that it received sensitive rocket technology in 1995 from an U.S.
satellite maker, and said the accusations reflected the United States' ``Cold War mentality.''

``The Chinese side had no intention to obtain U.S. missile technology through the launching of U.S. satellites,'' Foreign Ministry
spokesman Zhu Bangzao said.

``We hope the U.S. side will thoroughly give up its legacy of Cold War mentality and do more to facilitate normal business contact
between the two countries,'' he said.

A classified Pentagon report completed this week found that scientists with Hughes Electronics Corp. gave China unauthorized
information that improved the country's ability to launch satellites and long-range missiles, U.S. defense officials said Wednesday.

The assistance came following the 1995 crash of a Chinese rocket carrying one of Hughes' satellites, the officials said.

The report said the transfer violated American standards against helping Beijing make better missiles and satellites, and that such
moves required an advance review by the State Department, they said.

A Hughes' spokeswoman denied company wrongdoing in the case, saying the actions at the time were approved by the Commerce
Department, which she called the ``appropriate licensing authority.''

Both Hughes and Loral Space & Communications Ltd ( NYSE:LOR - news ) are under investigation by the Justice Department and
two congressional committees for their role in transferring technology to the Chinese after their satellites were destroyed in
Chinese rocket explosions.

China's top commercial satellite launch firm, the state-owned Great Wall Industry Corp, has said it stands to lose billions of dollars
because of the Washington probe, which is holding up satellite export licenses to China.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:32 - ID#225236)
"The end result is that they would be paid back with highly inflated dollars."

Do you see any scenario under which they would get all their money back ( non highly inflated ) ?

Do you think they do not know that? Why are we assuming that the Japanese are stupid?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:32 - ID#335379)
Hello EJ: Excellent post, your 10:11
Very interesting giving forieghners the ability to use USA as tax haven while it's citzenery pay through the nose into debt to fund her government.
I should now become a forieghn citizen and bank in the US!
Go gold, go Klinton, to jail that is, do not pass go do not collect $200, in campaign funds! Or mercy money for the incredible amount of lawsuits you will be fighting.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:38 - ID#269409)
Silver Share fans...SSC
Just got filled finally on an order for SSC at 9/16.... an order I've been placing daily. It's a break below where it's been for the past few weeks trading sessions. This is a bargain...and IMHO is close enough to SSC's very strong 1/2 resistance point as to represent a bottom.

It's my opinion that Silver will make a move before Gold does..sometime in the next 3 months. These shares are going to skyrocket. Also bought some SSRIF yesterday for diversification and value purposes. ( SSC is not a value mining share move...but it's a highly liquid, best known, largest NA silver share volume performer in "up" silver market )

Silver move coming in March...or sooner......Time to position.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:50 - ID#348257)
Nice going on SSC. Been eyeing s'more myself.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:51 - ID#20359)
LGB, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I would suggest that you take a peek at
FSR and CFB both in is my contention that these two stocks will explode in a move up in silver...more so than ssrif or ssc...reason being they are much smaller and very thinly traded...the asking price is extremely low...veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery low...

Like I said...take a peek...

Aragorn III
(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:51 - ID#212323)
It is as you say in large part.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:52 - ID#339274)
close stop 19 1/16

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:52 - ID#35571)
No, they are not stupid. That is precisely why they do not trash the US economy.

In a way, it's their own economy they would be trashing. They own us so long as our credit is good.

No one is going to burn their own collateral down in an effort to forclose.

It could be that they or the Chinese might do so anyway, just out of spite. We would be hurt.

But we would survive since we are starting from a much stronger base. Their own economies are already in bad shape, and it would be the end for them.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:53 - ID#343171)
excerpt of great article
No one should forget that this despicable man sat in the Oval Office, eating pizza and being serviced by Lewinsky in her customary fashion, while
he made the decision to send American men and women into harm's way in the Balkans. In the most crude and vulgar way, this act, alone, shows what
utter contempt Clinton has for the military, for the office of president, for the American people. The military at least deserves better leadership.
taken from:

(Thu Dec 10 1998 12:55 - ID#220325)
Canada/USA tax comparison - Your smarter than we are!
So you think you have it bad in the States?

Average taxes paid Canada 49.3% U.S. 35%

Tax Freedom Day Canada June 30 U.S. May 9

It takes about $1.45 of our dollars to buy one of yours

You must be doing something right!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:00 - ID#269409)
@ Cherokee.... OIL will lead GOLD higher
I've been ignoring banshee wails re oil for months now, believing as I did that the bottom was not in. The bottom is now here. Opec will make a move in the first quarter 99...I have it on good authority. The move in oil will signal a bottom to CRB index deflation. It will also be the precursor for the coming move up in Gold during 99.

After the silver shares purchased yesterday and today, I finally just bought shares in Smith Intl Inc ( SII ) , a very high value Oil services sector company. I'm in love with this co. with it's almost $2.00 earnings per share and P/E of 14 ( during what I believe is the low for oil prices no less ) , and their potential to explode in an upward move over the next few months. The whole sector has been neaten down to obscenely low levels

Sideline positions in cash are almost gone. This was the week to make some moves...but there's still time. Once this sector explodes in value in the months ahead, I'll see my SII and move some of the proceeds into Gold shares, where I currently have no position.

Oil..... has seen its final days of pain and will now rise. Gold will follow.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:01 - ID#333127)
No damage by lunch crowd

Cage Rattler
(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:02 - ID#33184)
Please sir, may I have some more ...
Brazil will request $8.1 billion from the IMF on Thursday to boost its sagging forex reserves. The IMF approved a little over $5 billion, but Brazil apparently needs much more since the situation is deteriorating and Dollar outflows are accelerating.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:04 - ID#269409)
@ tolerant
Thanks, I'll take a look ( if I have any cash left in my Ameritrade account which is almost fully "in" now! )

Problem I have with the smaller, higher value producers is liquidity. I have trouble with the concept that I might not be able to fill an order when I want to. But it's worth looking into as a value / diversification play. I'm driven to buy today...for the first time in quite some time. Away to look...and buy.....


(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:12 - ID#372262)
And the parade of red flags continues down Wall Street! crb below 195 and more European rate cuts ( even GB ) are all signalling DEPRESSION AHEAD!! What a confluence of events! Global depression, BC impeachment, Arafat to die within the year, Euro ready to debut, Y2K ready to bite, Iraq and Syria ready to attack Israel, N. Korea ready to attack S. Korea. China ready to take back Taiwan, Brazil ready to devalue Real, China ready to devalue Yuan, US markets trading at 31 PE's, gold bottoming between 290-300, millennial madness ready to spread--all points to an EXPLOSION of bubbles and dreams and a frightening new reality--the US dollar is worthless and there ain't enough gold to support all the paper! 1999 will be a year of radical restructuring for the world economy and radical revaluation of hard assetts versus paper!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:15 - ID#350179)
Corporate Express cutting 1,700 jobs

Shell Takeover of Chevron Rumored

Can any news hounds find info on the rumored shut down of the Black Cloud mine? ( ASARCO )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:16 - ID#269409)
10,000 DOW in 99 now a guarantee!
Just as I was growing bearish on the broad market, Golden prophet rears his head again with words of popping "bubbles" and a massive collapse. Words I might add, that we hear from him every month or so predicting this imminint collapse of civilization.

Being that Golden Prophet is a contrary indicator second only to Puetz, I must now re-evaluate my bearish sentiment toward the DOW. Now if Puetz arrives on the scene with a Full Moon or ecplipse based crash prediction,, than we'll ALL know that 10,000 DOW is just around the corner!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:18 - ID#333127)
No purchases for me till tax selling is within hrs of being over

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:22 - ID#372262)
Sell your possessions and give to the poor, especially all that SSC scheiss! Gold will move long before silver in a global depression!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:24 - ID#343171)
gold investors: a must read
from the Nevada Bureau of Mines:

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:26 - ID#36977)
LGB * 1998 Platinum Proof Sets ARE Available
I called the US Mint today. They are taking orders for 1998 Platinum proof sets. 1-800-usamint $US 1,350.00 each

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:27 - ID#372262)
Stock bulls had best go to his site and check the color of his traffic signals--all red and yellow except for one! We're about to plunge back to reality!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:29 - ID#421269)

I agree with you on the commodity sector rebounding over the next 2 years, but I believe that the general mkts. are headed for 5500 in the same time frame. Beware of the mkt. in general.

Cage Rattler
(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:31 - ID#33184)
XAU now up over 5%. Feb. Gold still up 50 cents. I don't remember a divergence this serious in many years. If stocks lead the metal, gold price should soon be up $5.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:32 - ID#372262)
Fibonacci retracement has been reached at 64 and the next leg up has begun.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:33 - ID#434108)
Santa may deliver....early:
a neatly wrapped - 'stock-market crash'
a re-born 'baby-bull' in gold.....XAU upside momentum
is looking good, at 68.13, + 3.27....... on
this Thursday, Dec. 10, in the year of our 'Federal Reserve'...
the year ( s ) of our 'Government ( s ) Of Deceit'.....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:36 - ID#22584)
You already told us that you watch NEM tick in real time. Do you also watch:

B ) POG spot
C ) GCG9
D ) All or any of the above

In real time?

I don't know if you're aware of this, but your posts really do inspire a lot of curiosity. TIA

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:45 - ID#269409)
@ Tyro...98 Platinum Proof sets are NOT available!!!
Tell you what Tyro...since you keep getting this wrong. You buy yourself a 1998 Platinum Proof set for $1350 from the U.S. mint, and I'll immediately pay you $1450 for it, making you an instant profit. Deal? ( hehehe )

You must be confusing the issue with the 1999 Proof sets. Or possibly someone at the mint sales line gave you bad info. The 98's have been sold out for a long time now.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:46 - ID#372228)
Gollum - Japan
Don't be surprised if you hear that Japan has been slowly liquidating their US Treasuries so that no one will notice and converting it into gold or ECU's...then when it is all over with, they will make a statement that they will lighten up on their US $ reserves...I agree that the Japanese are way ahead of the game and understand the position they are in....Remember that the japanese will bow and show you respect, but will always do what they want to do, without asking you first....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:46 - ID#288155)
Latest London Bullion Fixings

Gold AM Fixing ( 10 Dec 1998 ) : 177.415 Pounds Sterling
Gold AM Fixing ( 10 Dec 1998 ) : 294.900 US Dollars

Gold PM Fixing ( 10 Dec 1998 ) : 176.653 Pounds Sterling
Gold PM Fixing ( 10 Dec 1998 ) : 293.950 US Dollars

Silver Fixing ( 10 Dec 1998 ) : 2.9109 Pounds Sterling
Silver Fixing ( 10 Dec 1998 ) : 4.8350 US Dollars

Charleston Gold Bug
(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:49 - ID#344389)
Cash Gold down $.40 ????
Is that correct? If so XAU rally is
in big trouble.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:49 - ID#269409)
@ Golden Prophet
You said "Gold will move long before silver in a global depression!"

Two points....

a ) Yes Gold will move before silver in a global depression but they'll both be moving DOWN.

b ) Point "a" is moot because a global depression isn't in the cards right now. Recession maybe, meltdown / crash, nope.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:50 - ID#350179)
I think Cyclist is getting ready to go short...I would

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:53 - ID#269409)
@ Isure
We're in general agreement. The broad market is overpriced now, but was a bargain a few weeks ago. It's headed further south. Internet stocks and some high tech, shares are headed a LOT further south.

However, Tellecommunications stocks ( particularly Loral , hehehe ) are going to head a lot higher over the next couple years!

Selling some 401K Loral on today's close shifting to money market, and hoping to get back in around $18.00...

Off..... to give Nuclear missile secrets to Art Bell.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:54 - ID#410165)
LGB ..stop trying to steal those proof sets I'll pay $1600 :)....FYI the mint has stopped production
of 98 Silver Eagles so as to mint the new quarters.....99 Eagles will only start shipping in Easter.....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:56 - ID#35571)
I don't doubt it. Several months ago we even speculated as to why the Japanese would further lower their rates when 1 ) lowering had already been shown to have little or no effect and 2 ) their rates being too low against the high real US rates is what originally led to the problem to begin with.

One explanation was that they were encouraging the yen carry trade so as to keep US treasury prices up while they methodically and quietly cashed in.

Why cash in? Because they needed to finance the Japanes banking system bailout.

Seems like their banking system has not yet been altogether bailed out, doesn't it?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:59 - ID#389171)
The Golden Prophet:your 13h12 post

(Thu Dec 10 1998 13:59 - ID#269409)
@ Tyro... 98 Platinum Proof Eagle sets
Oh Tyro, since you keep bringing this issue up, can I count on you to report back to us all here on what you find out when you try and place your order for the 98 Platinum Proof Eagle set from the U.S. mint????

I'm sure you'll give us a follow up report yes???

Thanks in advance.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:07 - ID#341294)
Russian Bailout
Last week on a radio talk show, I heard that the IMF was requesting that any bailout of the Russian economy was to be repaid in Russian Natural Resources. Russia is alleged to have replied that they would repay their debt with the same currency ( paper ) that they received. Couldn't verify the story. Can anyone out there verify same?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:09 - ID#256365)
I have to tell someone! and some questions about silver care
I had just gone to bed. I work nights. I was awaken by a knock on the door. I got up as I am expecting a package, my wife was already talking to the postman. He had a package in his hand and she was signing for it. It was here! I had ordered some Silver Eagles from a company. And it was my first mail order bullion purchase. I shall not post the name of the company because I don't think they advertise on this site. But they had been recommened to me and so I called about a week ago. The man I spoke with quoted a silver spot price of 4.65 and Silver Eagles were 1.75 more than spot so they were 6.40 each. And shipping was $10. I later checked the price of silver and I was looking at sih9 or March silver but at anyrate I felt it was a good deal, and none of the coin shops around here have Silver Eagles, and even if they did they would have wanted around $8. So this package arrives, and my wife rushes off to the dentist. My oldest son is in school and my youngest was napping here with me but he woke up too. Now my youngest son loves coins. I have purchased cheap bullion coins from local places and he loves to hold them and look at them. I had given him a silver round and he liked it very much but was unhappy that it didn't come in a "package" I asked the mail order place if they sold these, and the man said no, but if he could find some he would throw some in the box. Anyhow my youngest son and I carefully opened up this box and looked at these Silver Eagles. They are so beautiful. Astonishing. Anyhow we put some in "flips" as I am told they are called. I don't care what happens now to the price of silver. It can trade for free for all I care. You folks who buy the mining shares and such, I'm sure it may be rewarding for you, but you can't imagine what it is like to get a box in the mail and sit with a 4year old for an hour just holding and looking at these coins. If silver trades for free tomorrow, I will have still gotten my moneys worth.

Now I have other silver coins and they can tarnish. The ones I have that are tarnished are probably 22 years old. Will Silver Eagles tarnish if I leave them unopened in the little container the Mint send them in? What about in the flips? Also, I would expect that magnesium should tarnish faster than silver, could I put a strip of magnesium in each container in contact with all the coins to act as a sacrifical cathode? Or would that possibly stain the coins? I put two into a flip and we were careful to not touch the metal itself, I presume finger oils might accelerate tarnishing. How can I keep them as pretty as they are right now?

Also, these coins were 1993, does that mean the Mint is running low? I was told that they would come from the mint not the companies stock as they don't have any Silver Eagle stock. I don't know if I want more Silver Eagles, I know Silver Maple leafs are hard to get, is there any other bullion type silver coin? Perhaps I should call the company I ordered from to see if they can get Maple Leafs is it leafs or leaves?

Well, I gotta go, I am told I have the get the coins out again so that we can look and hold them some more.

The posters that keep posting "there are benifits to owning physical" they are right, in a way I hadn't imagined.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:09 - ID#45173)
Since the Japanese insolvent bank problem involves all of Japan's largest banks, as opposed to the US S&L crisis which involved periferal banks that held about 3% of Americans' deposits, and since the US system is so much more open than the Japanese system, yet the US S&L crisis took nearly five years to resolve, I agree it's safe to say that Japan has not yet bailed out their banks yet. Too bad their interest rates are already near zero.

That's like marching through the lush forest, handing out water to everyone you meet, then arriving at the edge of the desert, a two week march ahead, with nearly all of your water gone.


(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:18 - ID#251268)
passing gold on the run!maybe gold will get motivated

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:23 - ID#372228)
ALBERICH - 12:15 post on Gold
Thanks for your comments...they are very thought provoking and I must say that you have hit the nail dead on the head!...As you say the big question is how will the rest of the world treat a commodity or as a store of value....a lot of people would like you to believe that it is just a commodity and that it will drop with all commodities...and as long as the Central bankers treat it that way, that's what it will be!...Your entire investment strategy has to be based upon this decision because, tails you win, heads you it a commodity or a store of value...I think that in the far east, it is a store of value, because they have already gone thru the deflation/depression phase and have come to realize its' value in terms of purchasing power...If you look at Latin America, I think that they see it as a store of value because of all the currency devaluations...If you look at Europe, they treat it like a commodity because their economy is strong and currencies have not been under fire of devaluation...and so, they give gold respect for what it was but not what it is.....If you look at the US, they treat gold as an which has to be contained and controlled...they know what the value of gold is and means, but all that is good for gold, is bad for them...this is because they have been inflating the currency far beyond the levels of normal inflation and have controlled both the metal and the people...I have to say that I am more concerned about how Europe treats gold than the US...IMHO, the US will come to know, as did asia, the true value of gold vs. US$...but if Europe decides to dump their excess gold, then gold will be considered a commodity...only until they run out...then gold will resort back to its' true value and once again be the most saught after material on earth...So IMHO, it all comes down to timing...and can you survive deflationary gold as a commodity?...until it once again regains its' thrown.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:29 - ID#421269)

Use clean white cotton gloves to handle coins, and leave them in the plastic tubes that the mint puts them in. Be careful about letting any type metal in contact with them and remember the air is the worst polutant as it contains many chemicals that can cause your silver to tone are tarnish.

For only a few bucks more you can buy uncirculated Morgan Dollars and the child will be able to see and hold one of the most beautiful coins in all of american history. You can get Carson City mint for about 30 bucks and these coins are part of the old west.To see a 8 year old coin that looks new is one thing ,but a coin that is a 100 years old in new condition, that was part of the great american west is trully awesome and one of the best buys in collectables today. Enjoy coin collecting, it is a family hobby.

Aragorn III
(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:32 - ID#212323)
Call me 'soft' if you will, but I'd like to see more posts like your 14:09. Thanks for inviting us in...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:34 - ID#372228)
Dow at 8879!
In my analysis, this has broken the neckline of the Head and Shoulders top ( formed over last 30 days ) and therefore would suggest that if this closes below 8900, that the next support level will be the 8300-8400 level....I wonder if it is because of "bombs over Bagdad" or "bombs over the WhiteHouse"????

Charleston Gold Bug
(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:35 - ID#344389)
XAU Rally
I am missing something. Why is the XAU
ramping with cash gold up 30 cents?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:37 - ID#288466)
Your silver eagles will tarnish in any environment where they are exposed to the air, but the mint tubes should minimize any air diffusion into the container. Seal the closure with tape and they'll last a really long time before tarnishing.

If you want to make sure the ones you handle don't tarnish, handle them by the edge and use thin cotton gloves, not your bare fingers. Keep rubber bands ( which contain sulfur ) as far away from the silver as possible.

FWIW- a silverware dealer once told me a trick ( which I've never tried ) about keeping silver so that it never, ever has to be cleaned ( again ) - put camphor ( a naturally-derived resin ) in the box with silverware. I don't know how this might work, unless camphor is an oxygen or sulfur scavenger. If it works for silverware, it should also work for coins.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:37 - ID#20359)

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:40 - ID#36977)
LGB -- Follow Up
Yup, you're right {:- (

I called BACK to the mint. Different agent. Not available.

I believed you the first two or three times you posted, but my friend was looking up their web site, and I decided to call today, just for grins. I was shocked that they told me they WERE available. As I am po', and this is Christmas, I didn't try to order any.

Robnoel, thanks for keeping LGB honest!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:40 - ID#420177)
would someone please provide me with the following urls: the australian site that has a number of research addresses and the asian markets charting address. tia

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:41 - ID#269409)
@ Aldebaran...Silver Eagles
Beautiful coin yes, because it's design is copied from the famous "Walking Liberty" half designed by Adolph Weinman for the 1916- 1947 U.S. Halves. The Walking Liberty Half is considered the "Most beautiful" circulating Silver coin design of all time by many Numismatists ( myself included ) .

As to protecting the coins and preserving then. Polyvinyl "flips" can induce a scourge of greenish corrosion if subjected to excess heat and time.

Best inexpensive protection is non vinyl, ( non PVC ) flips, ( not as flexible ) , or better yet the Capitol Plastics holders, or the "Eagle" brand hard plastic holders offer very good protection.

If you want a silver ( or Gold ) coin to retain it's full "Brilliant uncirculated" preservation state. NEVER handle it ( except by the rim ) , do NOT place some other metal or contaminant next to it, and NEVER NEVER clean it! Cleaning reduces the geographic relief of the microridge stress lines caused by the pressure of the minting process. It is these ridges that create the "luster" of a BU coin. Any cleaning, abrasion, altering, or touching of the surface of a BU coin, will be readily apparent to a coin expert who will then consider the coin to be lessened in value as no longer being "brilliant uncirculated".

Now with a common bullion coin like the Silver Eagle, this won't affect it's value much, if at all, but I state it anyway because it applies to other coins and you're interested in preserving beauty.

As to the year, unless you specify otherwise, dealers will send whatever they have in stock. There are no "rare" modern Silver bullion Eagles in the series. You may get 98's , you may get 95' don't really know unless you specify a year you want ( in which case you might have to pay a small premium ) .

As to prices, I've seen spreads anywhere from $1.35 over spot to $1.80 over spot in quantity, but it seems that most larger reputable bullion coin dealers hover in the $1.50 to $1.65 over spot region.

Hope this helps.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:46 - ID#269409)
@ Tyro
Thanks for follow up.... hey I was an internet coin dealer for awhile with an automated ordering site and the whole bit. That's why I always try the "buy low" bid!

Sheesh, I shoulda held onto that Internet business and taken it public as an IPO. I'd be a billionaire by now!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:47 - ID#350179)

I'd do that with my son too - but at 21 months he immediately grabs his piggy bank and drops all coins visible into it ( and once they're in - there his for the duration.. ) His grandparents end up emptying their pockets every visit! I do let him play with the silver ones too big to swallow ( commemoratives/slot machine tokens etc. ) & he too is fascinated by the sheen and heft of the discs. Thank you for your contribution - now, back to those oscillating stocks ( still long since late last week )
Go GOLD! ( what is the deal with today's action - I'm clueless as usual ) not that I'm complaining - just wary.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:50 - ID#288466)
Aldebaran - In case you want to try Camphor
The easiest source is Table Tennis "Ping Pong" balls - these are compounded from Camphor and cellulose ( wood fiber )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:52 - ID#35571)
The second wall is ordained, and ordained to come with little warning, and so it is upon us.

Oh, they'll find "reasons" enough for it later, be it bombs over bagdad or "bombs" over the Whitehouse, but then they always do.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:57 - ID#20359)
Aldebaran, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya..these folks certainly have a product and or the
expertise to offer some ideas...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:58 - ID#288186)
Gollum, trader_vic, and all: I could see how the Mar.T-Bond may rise in price near
term, to the 131 15'/ 132 08' area due to U.S. stock market vs.
U.S. Treasuries still having an inverse effect. This would complete
a possible wave 2 correction or wave C of a larger ( expanded flat )
corrective move. There would then be a large wave 3 down for U.S.
Treasuries that could easily be sparked by Japan making its "official
anouncement" regarding the "selling" of U.S. Treasuries...
Comments? Thanks, Fox-man

Who Cares?
(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:58 - ID#242214)
Clinton - More Trouble Coming. :)
See Drudge or

Combining this with recent statements by Henry Hyde "They ain't been
dropped yet", LaBella's comment on "grand jury restrictions until
early Jan", Lindsey Graham, etc, I'd say a whole new season of
action-packed episodes is about to begin. : )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:58 - ID#339274)
still angling for 19 1/2 to go short on .

(Thu Dec 10 1998 14:59 - ID#320202)
do you mean this one from sharefin:

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:01 - ID#350179)
US warns Baghdad: We're watching you
The defence secretary has also approved the deployment of seven B-52 bombers to the Indian Ocean to relieve seven other B-52s deployed during the confrontation in November when President Bill Clinton stood down planned air strikes minutes before they were to commence.

This should account for about $.001 of POG's move...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:03 - ID#420177)
yes thankyou.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:05 - ID#339274)
short 19 5/16 ,

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:05 - ID#35571)
Profit taking time...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:11 - ID#30345)
Aldebaron - could not agree with you more re 14:09
My daughter is 18 months old and she is learning to count, with libertads. Actually she likes to count just about anything includung steps of the staircase. She gets pretty worked up when we take them out. She will count right along, up to five or six or so depending on her mood then she'll skip to eight or ten. She likes to count them and move them over and over. She likes silver coins better than gold for some reason, probably because the coins are larger in size than the gold maples. She doesn't know it, but the maples are for her college tuition. I'm glad that she is getting some additional training out of the funding process at this point. Gotta start those gold bugs early. And physical beats paper any day of the week.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:14 - ID#341294)
If Anyone is Interested
Republican Counsel Alleges More Clinton Wrongdoing

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - Republican chief impeachment counsel David Schippers alleged Thursday he had found
additional evidence that President Clinton obstructed justice and abused his power, but said he would not make it public at this

``We uncovered more incidents involving probable direct and deliberate obstruction of justice, witness tampering, perjury and
abuse of power,'' Schippers said in his prepared statement to the House Judiciary Committee. But he said the Justice
Department and Office of Independent Counsel had told him making it public now would compromise pending investigations.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:15 - ID#372228)
5 Day, 5 minute chart on XAU shows clear Double Bottom on the gold stocks - short term...XAU +3.87, Dow down -146....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:27 - ID#339274)
covered 19 1/4,tough doesn't want to go down

Aragorn III
(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:28 - ID#212323)
longj...counting those libertads will build up her muscle tissue too!
Anyone: Silas Marner has awoken my latent desire to view some golden guineas. Would someone please post a link to a site with images?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:29 - ID#320202)
profits on what? swg went down, most of my small caps, guess because of tax loss selling, at least clifton, manhattan,viceroy pan american and minefinders are up, but nowhere where I bought them.
....story of my life !!!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:31 - ID#372228)
Thanks for the Elliott Wave analysis on the T-Bills, it is something that I respect, but have little experience with...what do you see on the DOW and BKX, if I may ask? TIA.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:35 - ID#339274)
be prepared for a spike up at the close

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:35 - ID#20359)
The B-52 bomber is a daunting combination of engineering dexterity and destructive capabilities...
these puppies do not get moved around on a addition they have a tremendous range of operation with additional reach based on inflight refueling...

The Middle East or N. Korea ( as has been suggested in the media ) either one could be struck with ease...I hope these babies are being utilized as chess pieces and no more...there is a most deadly game afoot...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:37 - ID#339274)
long 19 1/8

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:40 - ID#45173)
Whatever the reason for the heavy equipment movements, the markets aren't lking it.

DOW 8833.86 -175.33 ( -1.95% )

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:41 - ID#357334)

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:45 - ID#372228)
LGB - Cost of Walking Liberties - 1 OZ.
6 weeks ago, I was paying about $6.50 per from the same dealer I am paying $ I called around to 4 other dealers advertising a lower price and found that they were charging $7.80-$7.90 per coin...If you can buy them for under $6.80/ea. I would like the name so that I can add to my count....TIA

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:45 - ID#350179)
HUI spike yessss : )
XAU ... lagging.. +resistance at 68.8 to 69.0?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:45 - ID#412172)
I'll take some heat off Tort and put it where it belongs, latest Darwin award nominee:

In October, a 49-year-old San Francisco stockbroker, who "totally zoned when he ran," according to his wife,
accidentally jogged off a 200-foot-high cliff on his daily run.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:47 - ID#339274)
another 1/4 point.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:50 - ID#339274)
sold to early
got wet feet : )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:52 - ID#288186)
trader_vic; Actually, I'm fairly new with Elliott Waves myself. I can only repeat
what I read here, or see on other sites. Pretty much, most followers
of EWT seem to be in consensus about T-Bonds and the S&P from What
I can gather. T-Bonds are in some form of corrective pattern, and
we will likely see prices plummet below the 124 21' low made on
Nov. 6th.
As to the S&P or DOW, they are likely in a corrective rally as well.
They should eventually continue their downward spiral of this "Equities
Bear Market"...IMHO. I'm not an EWT expert so maybe we can get better
explanations from our TA people here at Kitco. Thanks, Fox-man

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:55 - ID#350179)
So much for resistance
Like a hot knife thru gallium. 69.12 & rising

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:55 - ID#350358)
PPT .... Caught napping?
or just not able to do much, or don't think it's serious ....

another buying opportunity : )

Congrats to all the shorts.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 15:58 - ID#194311)
One final act of desperate lunacy...the beast is "uncloaking".
Thursday December 10 1:51 AM ET

Clinton Backs Social Security Stock

By ALICE ANN LOVE Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON ( AP ) - President Clinton is endorsing stock market investments as one way to help make
up for cash shortfalls Social Security is expected to face in the future.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:06 - ID#330280)

COMEX Metal Warehouse Statistics for Dec. 10

Gold 825,838 - 1,198 troy ounces
Silver 78,539,956 + 630,292 troy ounces
Copper 81,723 + 752 short tons

There have been, what appears as, transfers of Silver from Republic National in Delaware, to Republic National in New York. This last transfer occurred today. There are now zero oz's of Silver at the Delaware Depository. This latest transfer was for roughly 1.2 million oz's. What "went" into the N.Y. Depository, was roughly 1.8 million. Thus, we see an amount of 630k oz's added to today's totals.
I wonder why they have transferred all the Silver from the Delaware site
to the New York site. Anyone know anything? TIA, Fox-man

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:07 - ID#246224)
Just chaulk it up to one more stupid idiocy which will be remembered of this very insane moment in history. The pile is being added to daily, waiting for the burning. T'will be soon enough. 1999 will prove to be a year of great accounting indeed.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:09 - ID#246224)
In all probability Delaware is now out of the business. Wouldn't be surprised to be hearing 'news' a bit from now.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:16 - ID#348129)
@DOW -167
But who cares up or down... XAU may have made a bullish reversal. Tax loss selling finishing up now.........

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:16 - ID#348129)
@DOW -167
But who cares up or down... XAU may have made a bullish reversal. Tax loss selling finishing up now.........

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:17 - ID#339274)
With the today's price action,see a strong gold price tomorrow
a jump over 297 spot wouldn't surprise me.Meaningful resistance 69.8 XAU
and 73 ,we'll see

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:18 - ID#330280)
Allen(USA); Now why, pray tell, would they be "getting" out of the business?
Is it because there is a sense that Silver "Stock Piling" won't be an
issue for years to come? Will the "currently open" Depositories be able
to handle Silver "coming in" because Silver "going out" will be due to
large demand and the balance of Silver stock levels will remain low because of this "increased" demand?Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:18 - ID#219363)
Equity Markets
Hmm, nice lil drop there. Despite the fact that I'm holding PUTs, I'm thinking this drop isn't going to amount to much and will move higher soon enough. Who can say. At least I was right about the move, blind squirrel that I am. How low do you guys think this thing could go ?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:19 - ID#242325)
You say you have it on good authority that OPEC will make a major move during 1Q99. Can you give us more details on your source for this information? If true the investment implications are huge.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:19 - ID#225236)
One final act of desperate lunacy...

That would actually be funny if they were to put all or some Social Security money in the stock market -- that would be one way to cause some major mayhem. I would be even more amused by an actual plan:

1. Sell $600 billion worth od SS funds "invested" in T-bonds and buy some internet portal with it. ( Who will buy the T-bonds though?! ) Will the portal have to agree to block the Drudge Report?

2. Better yet, see what company donates most money to Hilary's election and buy the stocks accordingly.

3. Will there be an Almighty US SS Stocks czar who will decide what to invest it in?

4. Buy Boeing stock and then bomb Saddam's mother's sister's cusin's brother's in-law accordeon factory for not letting UN see it. Boeing stock goes up and Clinton is a HERO.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:20 - ID#269409)
@ Foxman...silver transfer
Maybe to expedite moving it to Europe via NY harbor? A guess.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:21 - ID#330280)
Allen(USA); I guess, in reality, they could be closing this Depository down for
economical reasons. It seems everyone is trying to save costs, at all costs!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:23 - ID#269409)
@ Old Gold
Sorry, can't go into great detail other than to say that I spent a good deal of time working in Saudi Arabia and the middle East at one point in time and have some contacts there. ( Which is one...of many reasons I know ANOTHER is a collosal farce ) .

If you dig around on the net though, I think you'll likely find some stories about Arab OPEC producers beginning to work more cohesively toward lowering production in 99.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:26 - ID#20359)
Envy, Namaste' gulp and a puff to case you missed the following...
Date: Thu Dec 10 1998 02:13
tolerant1 ( one final note for the evening or day as the case may be...Envy...I acquiesce in the ) ID#20359:
Captain Haddock contest as the presentation of your answer is far more deserving than my mere words on a page...Aurator shall be in touch so that you may lay claim to your rightful prize...ENJOY!


Date: Thu Dec 10 1998 02:20
aurator ( Envy ) ID#255284:
Tolerant1 has offered you his prize for Capt. Haddock. If you email tol1 at his email given earlier below, he'll pass it to me and we shall discuss how to get this tome to Merka, Yes?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:28 - ID#330280)
LGB; Well, I never thought of that. But if our Buffet dude is back in "buy" mode, I
suppose he would make a similar move like he did in the last big buy.
Didn't his silver go to London for storage? But wait....This doesn't
make sense. If Silver is leaving the depository, it wouldn't be economical to make a stop into another depository before moving on to an
over-sea destination. Naw...I stick with my 1st two thoughts...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:32 - ID#219363)
Aren't they beautiful ! I love looking at them too, and silver is so cheap you can just get bunches of coins. They won't tarnish if you keep them in the container, and they actually don't tarnish that bad if they're sitting out, but the more you hold them, the more they color. Just let them change color and buy some new ones every once in a while. Don't let too many kids in the family see them though, it results in "lossage", and I don't mean they take them, you'll just find yourself giving them away like candy to every kid you see, especially this time of year. I've made it a tradition in my family to give away silver coins to children at Christmas, best money I ever spent.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:33 - ID#350179)
Russian government draws up 1999 austerity budget

"Without the debt burden being eased, Russia in 1999, 2000 and the following years really just cannot exist. It's as simple as that," Finance Minister Mikhail Zadornov told reporters.

The IMF has demanded that Russia draw up a sound budget as a requirement for more loans, and specifically warned against factoring in foreign credits that had yet to materialize.

Russia's government has warned that if it does not get foreign aid, it would simply print money -- which would send inflation soaring.

The government already intends to print about $1.7 billion worth of rubles next year, according to the draft budget, to cover part of a deficit equivalent to around $5 billion.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:33 - ID#339274)
major rally that will last until end of next week.36 and than 40 : )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:35 - ID#219363)
Yay ! Thank you oh tolerant1 ! : ) : ) : )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:35 - ID#269409)
NA Gold Shares..... Way up

Battle Mountain Gold up 14%
Placer Dome up 8%
Barrick up 6.5%
Cour D'elane up 6.8%

And all this on a day when the vaunted "Durban Deep" is DOWN a percent!

Who says NA Gold shares can't make you any money? Wish I'd have had some today........Bullish for Gold when it's hardly budging.... yes?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:36 - ID#43349)
The Great Legend
stretches from the darkness of long ago into the mists of what is yet to be. Hitting some highlights for local times:


The First Great War

The Coming of the Evil Menace

The Second Great War and the Death of the Evil Menace

The Birth of the Evil Empire

The Coming of the First Camelot

The Brothers

The Assasins

The End of The First Camelot

The Death of the Phoenix

The Fall of the Evil Empire

The Birth of the First Web

The Rise of the Southern Knight

The Seduction of the Southern Knight by the Blue Lady

The Great Hurricane

The Great First Wall

The First Spike

The Great Eye

The Second Spike

The Great Second Wall

The Fall of the Southern Knight

The Rebirth of the Phoenix

The Year of Darkness

The Rise of a New Star

The Second Camelot

The Second Web


(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:37 - ID#350179)
New anti-money laundering rules spark big protest on bank privacy

But regulators at other federal banking agencies also reported Thursday they had received many protesting e-mails, letters and telephone calls -- some of them apparently instigated by anti-government groups.

No spin on this piece, nope...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:47 - ID#412172)
Just want to say thanks for posting your moves. You are a touchstone for the market as I watch and sometimes trade. Heck, if I weren't such a great JINX, I'd post mine too ;- )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:55 - ID#411440)
@ FOX-MAN: Thank you for keeping us posted on the COMEX
metal stockpiles. As you pointed out, today we saw, COMEX
silver stocks beefed up by a transfer in from another bank
in an other city. I think the easiest interpretation of this
is that COMEX can restock, as it deems it necessary. It may
be that the running totals are less significant than we have been
led to believe, or is this what the powers that be want us to
I think what we really need is a figure for the entire silver
and gold stockpiles in all bank vaults in the United States. This
total supply is what will affect comex prices. This is a tall order.
How much do you want to bet the funds have access to this data?????
This is why I watch lease rates. Lease rates are rising across the
board for silver, indicating a fall in liquidity. Transfers like we
saw today may be significant not for what they do to COMEX totals but
because the transfer was done, perhaps to create the impression that
there is more silver out there than there actually is. FWIW

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:57 - ID#411440)
Bullion purchase. Rhody bought physical gold today. You
have been warned.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:58 - ID#276230)
Autumn evening
Watching the golden horizon

The quarrelling crows

Cant steal a bit.


Greenstone Gold
(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:59 - ID#428232)
UK....bad news.....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 16:59 - ID#219363)
Pushing fresh new lows again today, 190.45. Not good.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:08 - ID#20359)
David Schippers is putting nails one centimeter apart in nailing down the lid on the
coffin of Clintler's stay in addition...I would imagine that in the meticulous...deliberate delivery he is providing...will also be the last white shade of pale that the Democrats paint Clintler's defense with...the damage done to that brush and the spin masters who wield it is now irreparable...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:11 - ID#386245)
G'mornin/G'nite EB
Ain't NO gold in that koala coin, 'caus it's made of platinum. I do however have many tiny little baby kangaroos made of yeller precious, one of which I shall gladly donate to the Californy Wink Museum, but only IF the Yank/Reb little white ball beaters are good enough. Aye, therin lies the rub!! Your team has got the top four golfers in the world. Even sent out the heavy artillery ( George and Barbara Bush ) , but I am counting on 'home court' advantage. Norman is only 50% after surgery, so that's your handicap!! Should be a good match. Go Golf.

PS--you guys even sent out the Golden Bear!!! Now Bart, what could be more relevant than that!!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:13 - ID#288186)
rhody; That "information regarding total Silver", including stocks outside the
Comex Depositories, would be good info to have. You've made some
very good points. Thanks!

Keep us posted, as usual, on the latest lease rates info!
BTW, I noticed several mentions by posters, of "Silver Stirring"
that has been noticed lately. One of them was ( D.A. ) . I'm glad to
see this poster back! This person has shared good knowledge in the
past. Hope to see more of D.A.'s posts!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:14 - ID#372214)
follow through
hey. kitcos let see a follow through tommorow.....that would truely bring in some of those internet momemtum GUYS........

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:20 - ID#389171)

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:20 - ID#37463)
Willaim Jefferson Clinton
Well its interesting to see all the things which Clinton is suddenly interested in giving the public now that his draft number has finally come up. Kind of reminds me of an animal in a trap which will try anything to get loose. Maybe he will chew off a leg or other troubling member to get out of this embarrassing situation. As Clint Eastwood would say "Hang Em High" or maybe "For a Few Dollars More" Maybe they will hang him high for a few dollars more. Here's hanging out here and waiting. Tort.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:22 - ID#43352)
The House of Menorot

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:26 - ID#43352)
The House of Unity

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:27 - ID#372214)

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:27 - ID#285430)
Clinton is sweatin' like a pig at a bar-b-q
Boy, sure was a stark contrast today on CSPAN compared to all
the mealy-mouthed whining I heard yesterday... : )

And now we see the market start to lose ground... coincidence?
I think so. The market's been hyperinflated long before Lewinsky
was a household word.

My simpleminded interpretation is this: There are too many claims on
goods, and not enough goods. When the ledger books are finally
balanced, and the law of supply and demand will see to that, the
deficit will be enormous... and this deficit is exactly the sum of
money that the central canks have stolen from the blood, sweat, and
tears of you and me.

God save this Republic

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:29 - ID#372214)

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:33 - ID#257312)
Gold Purchases

Went to the local coin shop and bought my Christmas Gold. Got a nice mixture of 1/10, , and  ounce coins for gifts. Was gratified not to see any "Know Your Customer" signs. The clerk said they were having their best month ever, especially in Silver bullion. I asked if people were talking about Y2K. The other clerks and customers all looked up and a brief conversation ensued. Bank runs, precious metals, and food supplies were discussed. Felt like I was back at Kitco for a moment. At any rate, glad to see that the kids of Kitco posters are being raised right. Guess you could call them Kidcoites, yes?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:34 - ID#372214)

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:40 - ID#288186)
Silas; Regarding your 17:27. Very well said. You have the knack of telling it
like it is. Very much like our T#1 man has "the knack". The truth
is hard for so many to recognize. Especially when they have "greed"
blocking their eyes. The people have "voted their pocketbooks".

Clinton should have never gotten re-elected, much less, elected.

Also, this "fiat currency game" has gotten outta hand. It's time to pay
the Piper.
I pray for our future...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:42 - ID#372214)
cardoso-brazilto rrtrieve 9 bil from imf to boost currency reserves.....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:45 - ID#285430)
Scouring the net...
...for a photo of a guinea but I come up empty handed... :- (

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:46 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 30.07. The 233 day moving average is 29.26

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:48 - ID#230216)
LGB.....surfing buddy....State school Pal.....
Sweet crude made a NEW low TODAY. And yet you say oil has made its low and will now resume it's rise. It has been my contention that once a commodity makes new lows one of two thing can happen.

1. It goes lower

2. It goes higher choose answer one. Hmmmmmmmmmm......

I just ain't so sure this oil GLUT is over yet and prices may stagnate for a while and perhaps make ANOTHER low......... ( again ) .....tick-tock, tick-tock......

I have read ALOT of talk about gold rising in '99 and oil rising in '99. I sometimes get the feeling that some think this will be a magic year or a sort of "wait till next year" sort of thing.......I dunno............ ( I'm just thinking outloud ) ...........

I do think gold and oil will do better but it will not be as good as many think.............nope. This, of course, is my HUMBLE opine..... squeeze a buck outta this optical bizzz......If my Co. was trading publicly I would be getting KILLED right now...........I hate this time-o-year for my bizzzzzzzz........... ( ugh ) ...


(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:49 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .236. The 233 day moving average is .248

(Thu Dec 10 1998 17:56 - ID#230216)
I meant you choose answer #2 goes higher. I am sooooo fouled outta me mind sometimes........ ( damn lsd ) .......;- )

go golden bear......... ( ! )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:01 - ID#20359)

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:02 - ID#269409)
@ Rhody, Foxman, all.....Silver stockpiles
Regardless of mysterious and undocumented silver stockpiles which may, or may not, exist...we still have the following supply/demand, consumption/production trend facts to consider;

"Demand for silver was robust in 1997 across all the main sectors of demand, reaching a record
offtake of 863.4 million ounces. Total fabrication demand exceeded supply from mine production
and recycled scrap by 198 million ounces. It was the ninth consecutive year that conventional
supply ( mine production and recycled scrap ) failed to keep up with fabrication demand, which
grew last year by 6.1 percent. The gap between conventional supply and fabrication demand has
widened during the 1990's, averaging 120 million ounces per year from 1990 to 1997.

From 1990 to 1997, cumulative silver fabrication demand has exceeded mine production alone by
more than 2.2 billion ounces. The balance has been filled with recycled silver scrap and by the
drawdown of more than 1 billion ounces of silver bullion inventories held by investors, banks, and

LGB again...Barring the complete meltdown of industry, which I for one do not believe is going not be happening anytime soon...above HAS to be bullish for silver in the long run does it not?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:04 - ID#372180)
Here's a good picutre of one

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:05 - ID#269409)
@ EB....
I KNEW you meant Door # 1. The foul up was caused by the mental dysfunctions induced by atmospheric toxins down in the southern part of our fair state.

The cure is Platinum catalysts .... ( hehehe )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:09 - ID#372214)
finally the TRUTH is the TRUTH!!!! no grey areas.....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:11 - ID#269409)
@ EB...Door #'s
I mean # 2 !!! # 2 !!! ( See...the pollution levels in Silicon Valley are quickly catching up! )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:12 - ID#290456)

ANOTHER Guinea ( doesn't look much like the other
one ) ( ;^ ) )

Great Britain 1798 "Spade" Guinea Choice AU

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:13 - ID#20359)
well...if its guineas yuz be a gaggle of em...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:13 - ID#290456)
Silas_Marner - trying again

Great Britain 1798 "Spade" Guinea Choice AU

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:16 - ID#288186)
LGB; Yep. I agree. Sounds bullish to me! GO SILVER! GO GOLD!
YeeeeHaaaaaaaW! Won't be long, for PM's to shine! IMHO, of course...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:16 - ID#26793)
Barrick news

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:21 - ID#290456)

I just got a mail solicitation from the the great Goldbug Jim Blanchard, WHO IS STARTING A NEWSLETTER FOR TECH STOCKS.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:27 - ID#288186)
Silverbaron; What? Just a second..................................................ok. I just had
to look at my calendar and make sure it wasn't April 1st. It's not!
That means that either you're still pulling our leg, or Jim Blanchard
is! Maybe he's just not getting enough "sucker" income from his "gold newsletter" and wants to expand into a new "sucker newsletter"!

Gusto Oro
(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:28 - ID#430260)
Agreed. It's a waiting game with silver but in the end the price has to firm rapidly. I'm buying silver bars and junk coins now. Might Bite on some SSC after the new year but silver is + in my column because downside is $3.75 to $4.25 and upside $20+ --Al

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:29 - ID#369333)
There is gold up there in those hills
there is gold in those mountains check this out

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:31 - ID#269409)
Isure...enjoyed your 14:29 on Silver Morgans
Don't get to see much appreciation hereabouts for Numismatic coins so it was kinda refreshing to read your post, particularly the 100 year old Morgan part.

I have a pretty extensive Brilliant Unc Morgan collection ( among other series ) and share the coins and the history with the kids as you suggest. They actually are intersted, believe it or not.

As to 100 year old coins, about a year ago, I bought a nice little stockpile of 200, BU, 1900 date Morgans, ( and also a few 1900 Gold $20 Liberty's ) . This in anticipation of a substantial premium run-up in 1999 on these coins due to Y2K "Millenium" coin interest.

I've got folks who know I have these coins, after me already to sell them one! ( I'm going to wait till about June or July before I let any of them go ) .

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:34 - ID#288186)
Gotta go! Be Back Later(BBL). Here's current prices in after hours trading...
Feb Comex Gold @ 296.70 /// March Comex Silver @ 4.825 ///

See ya, Fox-man

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:34 - ID#286230)
I just got off the phone with my broker an hour ago. The word is that oil and metals--base and precious--are dead for a long time. Money should go into Hi-tech. Says the effect on the economy of new data communication is similar to the effect of the railroads a 100 years ago. Said it was particularly true in the deflationary economy we have when saving money in the operation of business is the way to go. I guess the idea is to invest in companies that are going to adapt to deflation or help others adapt. I didn't try arguing that deflation was good for the PMs. I don't understand the argument.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:37 - ID#350179)
THE Priest
Tell'em to move around for a better view ( arrow keys work fine ) cool.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:39 - ID#343171)
your broker is typical

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:47 - ID#45173)
Honest Reporting
You have to respect the WSJ for telling it like it is. They were the only financial news organization I've seen tonight that did not characterize today's selling on Wall Street with the cheerful misnomer, "profit taking." Not everyone was selling at a profit.

Earnings Warnings Prompt Selling

The Wall Street Journal Interactive Edition.

Dec. 10, 1998

Worries about earnings pressured blue-chip stocks Thursday. The Dow Jones
Industrial Average fell 168 points, or 1.9%, to 8842. The Nasdaq Composite Index, laden with technology stocks, fell 35 points, or 1.7%, to 2016 as a week-long rally in the sector fizzled.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:56 - ID#290456)

Yup! - This is for real.

The mailer says that Financial Communications Corp., James U. Blanchard III Chairman and CEO - will publish a newsletter starting in January 1999 called the Contrarian Tech Stock Letter.


BTW the mailer is pumping a stock called symbol MCNS if anyone wants to try to front-run the newsletter advertisement ( ;^ ) ) .

(Thu Dec 10 1998 18:57 - ID#219363)
Crude Futures At 12-Year Lows
Crude oil futures plunged Thursday to new 12-year lows, falling below $11 a barrel, on the New York Mercantile Exchange amid concern above-normal temperatures in major U.S. heating regions that are reducing demand will worsen a global supply glut. On other markets, palladium futures continued their sharp rise, while coffee futures also gained. Energy prices have been battered in recent weeks amid indications world oil producers are unprepared to make further cuts in daily output to reduce a persistent oil glut.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:04 - ID#219363)
I glanced at the tee vee this evening and one of the analysts for the oil industry said that she believed oil would go to 9$US a barrel. Can you imagine that, 9 bucks. Another merger was announced today between two of the super giants of the black gold. If it comes out of the ground, grows on the ground, or eats off the ground, it seems to be bear bait. Long live the commodity bear, as the more the bear eats, the bigger the bull will be.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:11 - ID#285392)
APH, Glenn, Gollum and others
What do you make of this S&P Chart. Comments appreciated.,210,d,d,d,d&TESelect=210&nocache=58345&PH=2&Symbol=SPX&Timespan=130

(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:15 - ID#257312)
Nikkei Off 150 or 1% In Early Trading

Follow the Nikkei here--^N225&d=1d

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:16 - ID#371242)
Next time you talk to your broker ask them how long they been in the business Thanks

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:16 - ID#371242)
Next time you talk to your broker ask them how long they been in the business Thanks

(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:32 - ID#147201)
the Priest re gold hills
Looks great. If there is gold there, I can find it. I can tell you how to find it too.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:43 - ID#348257)
tick tock...tick tock...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:45 - ID#372214)
to all
LOOK don'tlisten to guysWHO post messages from their brokers.brokers are adime a dozen.look at the market.GOLD IS going up,the dow is going down.BUY GOLD AND GOLD EQUTIES.............IT IS WHAT IT IS...

Mike Sheller
(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:47 - ID#348257)
if your lens business was called and you were on the internet with a laser device that could take eye measurements online, and have the prescription in the mail faster than you could say "amazondotcom" - then perhaps your business as a public company would do very nicely.

Just email me at ""

away, to count the x's in xxxxxyyyssssxxxxssssscccc

(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:49 - ID#224230)
Where's Gollum when we need him.
Very slowly now. There's an "inexorable" quality about watching it go up a buck a day - 10 cent's an hour. In the face of CRB lows, oil lows, deflation news etc.

I'm a paying passenger but got locked inside the freight car at the back ( for telling bad jokes the other day ) but I'm guessing we're now climbing "Perception Hill" which comes shortly after "Dead Man's Curve" on my map. Can anyone see ?

Pshhh, toot, toot.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:49 - ID#258273)
Internet Stocks
Had a meeting this morning with several internet entepreneurs. Got a valuation on my new concept stage company of $500,000, with serious acquisition inquiries of $2M with proof of concept ( a slam dunk ) . These investors funded Bezos. I was gratified but expressed my concern about the current market bubble. The concensus opinion was that the internet would power through the coming depression much like the oil industry in the 30's and the railroads in the previous downturn. One comment was that the internet stocks were properly valued, but that the US dollar was overvalued by 20x....

Hope they are right, but I'll stay hedged with the precious...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:51 - ID#258273)
On my way upstairs to log on I heard the word treason on moneyline regarding Hughes.


Uh, huh.

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:54 - ID#369333)
My comment before
The gold market is like a big ship in the
bay as it makes it three pionted turns and runs out in to the open seas it is hard to catch, be calm. Soon we will be tossing life jackets to those internet shareholders

i believe that someone should comment on uranium this market will also break it's bear soon

Mike Sheller
(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:54 - ID#348257)
Big Fisherman
What is your internet concept?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:55 - ID#286230)
THE Priest
They have been my broker for about 19 years and weren't new when I signed on.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:57 - ID#43460)
re silver stockpiles
IMHO we are in the accumulation phase of a silver bull and said phase started last year. Warren Buffet, astute observer of the nature of money and investment that he is, was the first big player to be caught showing his hand. But I think he was/is not the only one.

IMHO Buffets announcement last year may have been merely the product of a fallback contingency agreement which he might have made with his brokers to keep them out of trouble when the silver started to move. I believe that if his friends had never been questioned he never would have made his announcement and would have continued to quietly buy more. By doing the honorable thing and telling enough to get the heat off them he may have delayed his accumulation by several months but I would say it did not stop him.

I would be willing to bet a nickle ( of recent date and of very fine condition ) to anyone who proves me wrong when I say that there is accumulation going on now to the magnitude of tens of millions of ounces if not by WB then by some other big guy. And if I am very lucky the market will dip enough for me to buy a little more myself before they are found out.

( Never listen to Gagnrad. He is merely a silverfish crawling around the internet attic. )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:57 - ID#258273)
Platinum Placer
Can anyone give me a source for pricing of natural platinum placers and nuggets. I have a few ounces from Summer exploration efforts and dropped by a local gold shop. The owner said he would buy all I could get at $500, and almost wouldn't let me out the door. Just how rare is platimun in native form?

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:58 - ID#369333)
My comment before

The term technical in its application to the stock market has come to have a special meaning, quite different from its ordinary dictionary definition. It refers to the study of the action of the market itself as opposed to the study of the goods in which the markets deals. Technical Analysis is the science of recording, usually in graphic form, the actual history of trading ( price changes, volume of the transactions, etc. ) in a certain stock or in the averages and then deducing from that pictured history the probable future trend.

The technical student argues thus: It is futile to assign an intrinsic value to a stock certificate. One share of United States Steel, for example, was worth $ 261 in the fall of 1929, but you could buy it for only $22 in June of 1932. By March 1937 it was selling for $ 126 and just one year later for $ 38. In May 1946 it had climbed back up to $97 and ten months later in 1947 had dropped below $ 70 although the companys earnings on this last date were reputed to be nearing an all time high and interest rates in general were near an all time low. The book value of this share of U. S. Steel, according to the corporations balance sheet was about $204 in 1929 ( end of the year ) , $187 in 1932, $ 151 in 1937, $ 117 in 1938 and $ 142 in 1946. This sort of thing, this wide divergence between presumed value and actual price, is not the exception: it is the rule: it is going on all the time. The fact is that real value of the share of U.S. Steel common is determined at any given time soley, difinitely and inexorably by supply and demand, which are accurately reflected in the transactions consummated on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.

Of course, the statistics, which the fundamentalists study, play a part in the supply-demand equation that is freely admitted. But there are many other factors affecting it. The market price reflects not only the differing value opinions of many orthodox security appraisers but also all the hopes and fears and guesses and moods rational and irrational of hundreds of potential buyers and sellers as well as their needs and their resources in total factors which defy analysis and for which no statistics are obtainable but which are nevertheless all synthesized, weighed and finally expressed in the one precise figure at which a buyer and seller get together and make a deal through their brokers. This is the only figure that counts.

Moreover the technician claims with complete justification that the bulk of the statistics which the fundamentalists study are past history, already out of date and sterile because the market is not interested in the past or even in the present. It is constantly looking ahead attempting to discount future developments weighing and balancing all the estimates and guesses of hundreds of investors who look into the future from different points of view and the through glassed of different hues. In brief the going price as established by the market itself comprehends all the fundamental information which the statistical analyst can hope to learn plus some which is perhaps secret from known only to a few insiders and much else beside of equal or even greater importance.

All of which admitting its truth would be of little significance were it not for the fact, which no one of experience doubts that prices move in trends and trends to continue until something happens to change the supply demand balance. Such changes are usually detectable in the action of the market itself. Certain patterns or formations, levels or areas appear on the charts, which have, a meaning can be interpreted in terms of probable future trend development. They are not infallible it must be noted but odds are definitely in their favor. Time after time, as experience has amply proved, they are far more prescient than the best-informed and most shrewd of statisticians.

The technical analyst may go even further in his claims. He may offer to interpret the chart of a stock whose name he does not know so long as the record of trading is accurate and covers a long enough term to enable him to study its market background and habits. He may suggest that he could trade with a profit in a stock knowing only its ticker symbol completely ignorant of the company the industry, what it manufactures, or sells, or how it is capitalized. Needless to say such a practice is not recommended, but if you market technician is really experienced at his business he could , in theory, do exactly what that.

Should the reader at this point find the technical approach to trading or investing as explained in the foregoing, completely abhorrent, perhaps he had better look closely a the performance of the of certain stock listed on the exchanges and compare their prices over three five year intervals.

Something to think about when investing in today world

(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:58 - ID#219363)
Congrats on your start-up. I'm sure you already are, but watch your back with the venture guys. Have to always make sure they understand that you can get money anywhere, make 'em work for ya and not the other way round.

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 19:59 - ID#369333)
This is to all internet shareholders
should read my post before difinition of technical analysis

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:00 - ID#43460)
Big re platinum nuggets
How do you know they are platinum? They may be an alloy of several PGMs. Rhodium is going for over $600.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:05 - ID#43352)
Climbing Percrption hill, yes, but we have yet to reach dead man's curve. THAT comes at the end of the rush down the other side.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:09 - ID#43352)
First wall to the left, second wall to the right.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:10 - ID#258273)
Mike Sheller
I have a large code base for statistical pattern recognition that I have adapted to use profiles to predict behavioral responses to objects on the internet. Has worked well for me in many other disciplines ( fisheries, defense, medicine, intelligence, etc ) . The goal in this instance is to be able to target advertisements and product offerings to those with a high probability of buying based upon purchase patterns. This improves click-through revenues and sales by factors of 2 to 10 fold. Amazon has a fairly rudimentory system that uses nearest neighbor matching. It compares your purchases with the purchases of others and shows you books that you might like. They have sold me quite a few books this way.

This technology is actually kinda scary, as it can be used to identify your affinity to most any interest group and target you for a variety of purposes.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:12 - ID#224230)
2gollum - Ahhhhh - now I get it.
Like I was saying, they locked me in the freight car yesterday for rowdy drunken behaviour and telling jokes in bad taste... So that means we'll be going slowly for a little while yet does it ? Which should give me time to sleep off my hangover and think of a better joke so they'll let me out of here. : )

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:12 - ID#343171)
the priest:
"i believe that someone should comment on uranium this market will also break it's bear soon"
by soon you must mean geologic time?
huge supply overhang in the U market

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:13 - ID#20359)
globalization or polarization...ya just gotta love it...ah the news...a breath of fresh air...
DECEMBER 10, 1998 19:59:21 UTC


On the eve of the Judiciary Committee's impeachment vote, the WASHINGTON POST hits member Rep. Bob Barr [R-GA] in Friday editions, a prerelease was obtained by the DRUDGE REPORT.

"A spokesman for [Barr] acknowledged Thursday that he was a keynote speaker earlier this year at a meeting of the Council of Conservative Citizens, an organization promoting views that interracial marriage amounts to white genocide and that Abraham Lincoln was elected by socialists and communists," writes the paper's Thomas Edsall.

Edsall quotes from the internet Web site of the Council of Conservative Citizens, noting the site "is dominated by material portraying the 'white race' as under seige."

"A council columnist described only as 'H. Millard' writes: 'Take 10 bottles of milk to represent all humans on earth. 9 of them will be chocolate and only one white. Now mix all those bottles together and you have gotten rid of that troublesome bottle of white milk. There too is the way to get rid of the world of whites. Convince them to mix their few genes with the genes of the many. Genocide via the bedroom chamber is as long lasting as genocide via war."

"Barr spoke at the organization's semi-annual convention on June 6 in Charleston, S.C," reports the WASHINGTON POST.

"His presence was cited by Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, who testified against the impeachment of President Clinton at a hearing of the House Judiciary Committee."

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:13 - ID#43352)
Compare your chart to the bond chart. First wall...first spike. Later Second wall...second spike.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:14 - ID#372214)
KITCOITES OF THE WORLD UNITE!! LIKE JOE KERNAN of cnbc says, when he flogs internet stocks,if we are on the same page at the same time WE WILL WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:15 - ID#258273)
My second cousin owns a small mine with assay capability. We check some of the smaller placers and the wire. We are also not too far from SWC. There is an exposed reef in the drainage somewhere near ( we think ) .

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:18 - ID#43352)
Yes. Like a great locomotive pulling heavy freight we are slowly building momentum for our move against the $300 barrier. Dead man's curve is right around Mike Sheller's $297.50

The barrier is a tough one and it takes a LOT of base building. Crash the barrier and we go right on up. Fail and we crash and burn in a great triple bottom.

Out of ashes rises the Phoenix.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:21 - ID#258273)
Thanks. The VC types gutted my last effort. Made 23 million in revenues with 3 million in expenses. I got chump change by comparison.

As they say, anything that doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. I won't make the same mistake again.

Jim Bob
(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:24 - ID#249395)
Just logging on for the day and haven't reviewed todays comments.
HOWEVER, I continue to hope that I will gain knowledge regarding
what Juniors to be buying. I've got positions in some, but I need
more diversification with substance.
I already understand that the Fed and other CB's need to reflate in
order to get commodities going so that the countries that are resource
based can get something going in their economies. And, I understand
that reflation of money supplies cheapens the same against gold.
We are going to have a nice recovery over the next years and I want
to be properly positioned. I've got the majors since the mutual funds
will have to buy them. What I need is another Junior other than
Conquistador and Mirandor ( and Rangy, ugh! ) . Thanks

Charleston Gold Bug
(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:28 - ID#344389)
Gold & XAU
It came to my mind today how
much emphasis is placed on buying
gold STOCKS. Today the XAU went
up 4 points + while gold moved up a paltry
30 cents. Could it be we all are being so
too clever by half in buying gold
stocks while there is little or no
investor interest in physical buying of
gold bullion. How can the mines make money.
if investors do not buy bullion, the
product of the companies?

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:28 - ID#371242)
CoolJing (
yes i agree but demand is steady and will soon absorb the supply
i believe this market is ready to charge ahead very soon

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:28 - ID#386245)
GO Price and Appleby!!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:30 - ID#251175)
Juniors for Jim Bob
In Australia Dome Resources has to be a winner, company buying back shares, already bought 10% another 10% togo, paying dividends 0.5cps, producting 80,000ozpa in PNG, cashed up A$10m, market cap A$24m and great blue sky and good cashflow. In SA Randgold is the story - NAV disount huge and Morila the Gorila just keeps on getting bigger.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:32 - ID#348257)
Big Fisherman
Marketing and advertising organizations are always l;ooking for a holier grail in this regard. I assume you are seeking investors and a support structure in this area. A JV with an established marketing group may be a way to go. In the past several years I helped promote a new technology that swipes drivers ID's to verify age for alcohol & tobacco purchases. I humbly say I was one of the first to recognize the technology and its applications developed by two young men literally in a spare bedroom office ( one of them had an established financial software company, the other had the concept ) . When I brought in some old associates in the marketing biz, they were drooling at the name/address/info capture capability of this application as it swiped identity verification. Advertisers and marketers love statistical applications. Period. We had Philip Morris interested, but the kids went with their own shot at an IPO. I wish them luck. If you want to chat, email me at I will not disclose anything you say, and may have some thoughts. Other than that, best of luck. Be careful. The earlier comment about venture capital was true. They want too much. Try to see what you can do in other areas before signing over 50 - 60 percent.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:33 - ID#372214)
lets blow $300 gold out and hold.make the shorts sweat,there are probably less and less of them holding the bag....this is the time.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:34 - ID#219363)
Yep, it's a b*tch ain't it. My problem w/ most VC guys is if the company isn't gonna post a 1000x capital in the first 3 days of operation, they feel like they've gotten ripped off somehow. Ain't in it for the long term, quick buck guys. There are good VC I guess, but I ain't met 'em. Whenever I'm talking to investment folk I try to walk in solid, and with a lot of options, helps pull off that "I've got all the cards and you're just one of the hundreds of investors I'm going to be talking to" attitude that they love so much. Make 'em bend over backwards and beg, they ain't doing nothin for the money they're going to be making, you're doing all the work.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:34 - ID#30345)
@jim bob
Juniors of the day are:SSRIF, SSC, FSR, CFB, and my favorite is RIC

ohyeah: LGB likes SII....not gold tho it is oil.


(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:38 - ID#386245)
Foundations laid.
Construction proceeding.
Cheers, Nick@Southern Hemisphere Wink Museum.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:38 - ID#348257)
Charelston Goldbug
but there IS investor interest in buying bullion - coin sales are running at very strong levels, with many simple bullion issues hard to get.

As Old Gold is fond of pointing out ( over and over and over again ) the shares often lead the bullion. A strong move in the shares will lead us to question: can a move in bullion be far behind?

Past 297.50 it's 370 by Spring!

tick tock...tick tock...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:43 - ID#30345)
I'm currently working ( on the side ) with a startup JAVA design suite for industrial control in the process industries. We have a product and are skipping the VC's; we are going directly to the big boys for a buyout/ licencing and marketing arrangement. GE, Siemens, Rockwell, Sun Microsystems and the like. Depending on the quickness and capital requirements, licencing to the likes of these folks in your target industry might be an alternative if you have a proof of concept.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:44 - ID#290456)
Jim Bob

Check out Itronics Inc. ( BB:ITRO ) - a play on both silver and technology. James Dines will list it in his next newsletter as his top pick for 1999.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:45 - ID#43352)
clickity click tick tick clickity clack tock tock
Make the bend or back to tehom.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:46 - ID#348257)
Envy, Big Fisherman
Sources of capital are like any other "investor" - they are human beings who are drawn by the tides of market fancy. I am with a public company that has over 100 million in placer gold in the ground and it is like pulling teeth to get any kind of investor interest in this market. Because gold is simply out of favor. Period.

Internet sh*t, on the other hand, is very hot right now. That could end in a week, of course, but the point is that many good ideas and brilliant investment ( business ) concepts have withered on the vine because sources of capital and resources were off chasing the latest fancy - invariably something that has already RISEN to eye-catching heights and has everyone singing the praises thereof. That's why anything connected to the internet will probably draw some investor interest or inquiry, whereas take it from me, gold ( and oil ) financing has been EXCRUCIATING the past year and a half. Naturally, in a few years from now, with gold in a roaring bull, they will be breaking down our doors throwing money at us. Probably at the top. Where were you when we had the vision and NEEDED you? will be the song then.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:48 - ID#348257)
Big Fisherman
listen to longj

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:48 - ID#372214)
lets all join in and make the is crucial........

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:49 - ID#30345)
What happened to palladium today? I went back to the previous 24 hours and can hardly find a mention of it. Thought someone would have been talking about ti. Are the ruskies up to those old fear of delivery tricks again? Oris got any news?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:52 - ID#194311)
Symmetrical thinking....
History will regard the last three decades of the nineteenth century as a time of great upheaval and financial turbulence. Properly it should be noted that the era was begun by a rat-bag US president removing the dollar from the gold fix, unleashing the speculative beast of human greed in the form of currency speculation on floating exchange rates. The goal of such an ill-thought move was instant gratification of winning the next election through an illusory boom. The moral calibre of this president was so lacking that he had to be hounded out of office before the rotten fruits of his labours were reaped.

At the end of this period in a remarkably symmetrical closure another morally defunct US president instigated just such an illusory boom, with the ties to any sort of stability having been severed long ago. Helped by a wave of technological marvels entering the consumer market place a fully blown financial bubble was perpetrated, which lasted for the remainder of his term in office. The larger populace now drunk and wallowing in cheap food, drink, porn, drugs and violent entertainment, indulged to such an extent that the havoc they were wreaking beyond their borders was an annoyance to be trivialised. Who wants to hear about the suffering of millions when you can fantasize about the President's sexual antics?

An equally balanced ending to this period of shame, in a great nation's otherwise upstanding history, is for this other rat-bag to be removed from a power he has never respected, and for the dollar to be given back it's gold.

Debase the money, debase the people.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:52 - ID#372214)
we blow $300 and we all get rich.the other side is range.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:53 - ID#30345)
Sorry, forgot one small detail: either a large technical advantage or patent protection is also a good idea or else they'll just take it and run.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 20:59 - ID#290456)
Copper is in the buy zone for bottom fishing

at 67 cents/lb ( US ) ... watch O'Okiep Copper OKP

If copper goes below the average cost of production ( about 65 cents/lb ) nearly every major producer in the world will be belly-up. Either we are at/near the bottom, or deflation is going to consume us all.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:05 - ID#194311)
Symmetrical thinking...goes around comes around...nature.
History will regard the last three decades of the nineteenth century as a time of great upheaval and financial turbulence. Properly it should be noted that the era was begun by a rat-bag US president removing the dollar from the gold fix, unleashing the speculative beast of human greed in the form of currency speculation on floating exchange rates. The goal of such an ill-thought move was instant gratification of winning the next election through an illusory boom. The moral calibre of this president was so lacking that he had to be hounded out of office before the rotten fruits of his labours were reaped.

At the end of this period in a remarkably symmetrical closure another morally defunct US president instigated just such an illusory boom, with the ties to any sort of stability having been severed long ago. Helped by a wave of technological marvels entering the consumer market place a fully blown financial bubble was perpetrated, which lasted for the remainder of his term in office. The larger US populace now drunk and wallowing in cheap food, drink, porn, drugs and violent entertainment, indulged to such an extent that the havoc they were wreaking beyond their borders was an annoyance to be trivialised. Who wants to hear about the suffering of millions when you can fantasize about the President's sexual antics?

An equally balanced ending to this period of shame, in a great nation's otherwise upstanding history, is for this other rat-bag to be removed from a power he has never respected, and for the dollar to be given back it's gold.

Debase the money, debase the people.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:05 - ID#219363)
@LongJ, BigFisherman, Sheller
Just my opinion, but I think a good way to go is to have a solid business plan with a number of ways of presenting it to potential investors. Take that, build a database of potential sources of cash: Venture, Angel, Debt, Investment Banks, and even your paper boy if he has a big route, and fire off the investment opportunity to absolutely everyone you can find who has money. Keep the attitude that you're the source for what's going on, and that people are going to be dumping money on you, and be selective with potential investors who show interest. It's hard to get caught in a situation where you're having to worry about someone taking over the venture when you've got 50 different investors and the rules are clear ( like that they won't call you everyday asking how their investment is doing ) . Investing in your idea is an honor, a priviledge, and your investors should feel thankful that you've considered them for the opportunity.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:06 - ID#30345)
Who owns Kennecott Copper's, Utah Copper Division? I did the control system on the Concentrator at Bignham canyon, and the Hurley Smelter. Copper only pays for the day to day operation; they make their money on the gold and silver coming out of that grand canyon. Bet they could do some significant heap leaching at that operation. Got a ticker symbol anyone?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:07 - ID#290456)
Someone mentioned Uranium

The cup and handle pattern looks about completed on Cameco Corp CCJ / CCO

Brother Sheller - Is this what you call a Rhino pattern?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:11 - ID#30345)
looks the same as this one for nickel.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:11 - ID#290456)

Sorry - I don't know that one. I only follow O'Okiep and sometimes Azco. Lots of value in these type companies, if you're willing to sit on them for a while. Same for the micro-cap gold and silver producers.

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:18 - ID#371242)
I'm interested in Cogema Mclean Lake project
looks very impressive

(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:20 - ID#30345)
Kennecott UCD is owned by Rio-Tinto

(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:21 - ID#258273)
longj, Mike Sheller
I am gratified by your concern and advise, and impressed by your wisdom.

My technology is well developed and I have applied it extensively in other fields so I have a great running start. I also have experience in writing software patents, and believe that the methods and data structures are patentable.

I am sticking to angels with whom I have a long personal relationship. They are covering hard costs for proof of concept. These costs are minimal, and I will manage to keep 90% through this process.

I expect to be joint venturing with a hot-hot-hot internet marketing services company. This will cover most of my other costs, but they want to use the technology exclusively if it proves out and want an option to buy me out at this point. They have IPO plans for Spring.

Merge and go public is my liquidity strategy. Just hope AG's reflation efforts keep the bubble aloft until then.

Thanks again for the advise. As they say, many a slip between the cup and the lip. Until then I can dream about what 2 million invested in Amazon pre-IPO would be worth. ( I turned down the opportunity to invest in Amazon at the seed stage. Doh. )

Mike Sheller
(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:23 - ID#348257)
trying to open that chart URL for Cameo, but it keeps crashing my Netscape. Sorry. Will try again, but if I don't respond about the Rhino it's because I cant get the chart.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:25 - ID#258273)
Thank you. My business plan is nearly complete. Will follow your advice.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:25 - ID#348257)
Big Fisherman
sounds good to me. Best of good fortune in this venture!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:30 - ID#230216)
............uh oh...........

That dang gnuzeelander done did it to us.......... ( dang ) ........let's regroup boys!!!!

It ain't too good when yer two best looooooooooooooooze...... ( ugh ) .

Best not start the framing yet.............there is alot-o-golf to play yet :-0! nicko?

go golf! lick my wounds.......... ( ouch ) .


(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:31 - ID#219363)
Best of luck to ya, sounds like an awesome product.

Mike Sheller
(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:40 - ID#348257)
found Cameco Corp, CCJ, on BigCharts. around $17? If that's what you have in mind, the answer is NO - no Rhino there. Looks like its testing a bottom tho.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:40 - ID#249244)
No fresh news, friend. Same old story - people were told
to panic...volume is not heavy at all and spike in price is
impressive...Anyway, no news from Russia, but some "paper"
guys in the West are going to make a buck, and some guys
are going to loose a buck...

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:46 - ID#371242)
I'm interested in Cogema Mclean Lake project
looks very impressive

THE Priest
(Thu Dec 10 1998 21:46 - ID#371242)
I'm interested in Cogema Mclean Lake project
looks very impressive

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:07 - ID#190411)
@Charleston Gold Bug
I bought 53 Minutes of Anglogold's metal. -Busted me.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:08 - ID#376309)
I do not trade copper to often but it looks like it is finally putting in atleast a short term bottom. I am currenly the BID on March copper at 68.25. The so far is 68.30. Does anyone else have a feeling for copper. It's one of thous things that keeps going down day after day. You know it's cheap and headed higher one day but it can always get cheaper too.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:11 - ID#30345)
THX oris.
You're right the goverment plays the game each year to drive prices up and sells into the rally.

"Another source noted that We go through this every year.

Every year the export contracts come up for renewal, and every year there's a problem with the government. Also driving the market is the lack of Russian sales today, which surprised market players. They said they expected the 1999 uncertainty to act as an incentive to push metal out of Russia before the end of the year."

I would have thought platinum would follow suit but it is just sitting there like the yellow metal I also have an affection for. I guess the SA boys can deliver. Anyone know what the substitution ratio is in wieght or molar terms for auto catalysts? That and the percentage usage of Pt for jewellery might account for the divergence. Just curious, maybe I'll go find out.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:23 - ID#372214)
I BET YOU that the kitco SHORTS would like to piss on my grave.WELL get use to it.i am here to stay. youguys have had it your way tooo long.GOLD IS GOING UP.YOU CANNOT STOP IT BELIEVE ME.....

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:25 - ID#30345)
That's about 665 oz. Good show.

Jim Bob
(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:26 - ID#249395)
Blanchard & Suckers
I too received an ad from Blanchard regarding his new tech
newsletter. This is totally out of character and calls the
same into question. I appreciated the remark made about him
targeting new suckers to supplant his old. He has overhyped
his picks and I was "suckered" into International Pursuit,
Trillion, and Silver Standard ( although SSRIF might be a
good purchase now ) . But, a "sucker" indeed I have been over
the past 6 1/2 years and I don't need this off-the-wall
destruction of principle rubbing my face in it.

Furthermore, Mediconsult, his big medical internet service
pick was selected over a year ago by Dines and it has already
moved substantially. Gold Newsletter is always very tardy and
I will probably substitute another ( unless, of course, his
main two picks, DROOY and CMG, take off soon ) .

Thanks for the heads-up regarding some possible Junior purchases.

Just the way these newsletter writers over-hype and over-simplify
their picks makes me so mad, and then to have Blanchard sell
everyone out just adds to the internal fires or ulcers, whatever.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:34 - ID#190411)
I severely miscalculated, only 100 of that stuff.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:37 - ID#372214)
A FEW WEEKS AGO CNBC said that gold bugs were a CULT...wel maybe gold shorts are an extinct CULT.....and thats all i have to say about that.......

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:38 - ID#20359)
Straight from the horse's mouth...Clintlers "team" is telling people that impeaching
Clintler "might" shock the stock market...What a truly sad man and state of the Union...CNN-the Clintler News Network doing all it can to "save" pitiful...

Needless to say Clintler has been TOTALLY ineffective in international affairs, has gutted the military and is consistently polarizing America...and obviously understands nothing about economics as he called the Asian economic crisis a "glitch" which is a word seen everywhere and has replaced the beloved use of the word "paradigm."

What a guy...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:45 - ID#190411)
Gold Juniors?
Here's a Database way of looking at pennystocks.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:46 - ID#20359)
CNN is spouting that Clintler has a secret weapon...R. Rubin...the manipulation of the
truth is pathetic...utilize cabinet members to sway the impeachment vote...are these not the same cabinet members that Herr Clintler sent out before to preach his bold faced lies...

Jeez Louise this is pathetic...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:49 - ID#45173)
Technology trends
IBM boss sees data storage cost falling more

COPENHAGEN ( Reuters ) - The cost of computer data storage would go on falling sharply, Lucio Stanca, Chairman of IBM Europe, Middle East and Africa said on Thursday.

``In the early 1980s, the standard unit of computer storage, one megabyte, cost about $100. Today it is 10 cents and in two years it will be two cents,'' Stanca told an IT ( information technology ) and telecommunications seminar according to a copy of his prepared speech.

He pointed to two other key technological trends which he said were contributing to the evolution of the information industry ``into the engine of growth in today's global economy.''

The power of computer processors doubled every two years, as illustrated by the fact that $3,000 laptop computers of today were twice as fast as the super computers of the 1970s, which cost around $1 million, Stanca said.

He listed communications as the third key trend.

``The speed has doubled every three years until now. By the year 2000, scientists expect to transmit one trillion bits per second,'' he said.

Stanca said that the future potential of electronic commerce was enormous.``We see the total market for Internet commerce hitting $200 billion by the end of the century and that is less than 400 days away.''
Question: How can precious metals compete with the rate of increase in value that computer technology delivers to the economy? Maybe Blanchard is coming around to the conclusion that the value of PMs is supported weakly by history and fading sentimentality, not a safe basket into which to put all eggs?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:50 - ID#20359)

(Thu Dec 10 1998 22:57 - ID#20359)
EJ, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I do not believe that it is prudent comment which
stipulates that computer technolgy will have an adverse effect on PMs...I still believe that an international system of payments MUST be based on something and that something will be the PMs...companies like e-gold are way ahead of the curve...

The rate of increased value of efficiency or any other increase has nothing whatsoever to do with the integrity of a system of payments...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:02 - ID#372214)
it is amazing how the shorts on this site like to go OFF topic when GOLD is going up........

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:07 - ID#286230)
Quiet Night
Not much happening here tonight. I guess we are all facinated by CNN and the Republicans impaling themselves yet again. That Perrot fella could have made a fortune in the '30's playing Gabby Hayes' brother.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:08 - ID#372214)
who is the last of you to hold THE BAG.........

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:12 - ID#45173)
Point well taken. My point relates back to the poll I took here a few weeks ago. More than 50% of Kitco-ites have more than 40% of their investment capital in PMs. I own gold as calamity insurance. But the more probably scenario is that we muddle through a slowdown and take off from the other side. If so, the upside is in technology stocks, especially stocks in companies that allows individuals and/or businesses to accomplish a common and important ( banal ) task more quickly at lower cost.

My message to those heavy in gold, hedge your gold bet with investments that will do well if the world doesn't end.


The Hatt
(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:16 - ID#294232)
The World Economy Is In Crisis.....
IMHO you can take all of the charts and the planet alignments and throw them out the window as what we are facing is a crisis that NO-ONE knows how to fix.. As someone stated last night we have reached the end of the line with debt being used to pay debt and the kiting game is near an end. The average U.S. citizen will feel not only financial pain but also humiliation for being so gullable. Clinton has put seventy percent of America to sleep while the elite of Wall Street pick their pockets! He is an evil man and the world will soon turn against him with a vengence.... This post is not meant to slander any of the Kitco Analysts who try their best to steer us in the right direction, rather it is meant to disclose that the financial markets are about to collapse and cause the greatest redistribution of wealth known to man. The poor are about to become much poorer. Fully expect to see much violence this time around as average hard working people refuse to take the beatings lying down. Government Officials, Mutual Fund Managers, Analysts, CNBC Types will live in fear as their lies and deceit will be exposed....

John Disney
(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:17 - ID#24135)
feeling bottoms ..
for Glenn ..
I believe we are at the low for copper ..
I think the CRB will go lower .. best guess at bottom
is 185..

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:19 - ID#43460)
BigFisherman, Gee, all my second cousins just have children and mortgages!
( 8-^] ) I talked to a guy a few weeks ago who sells native Michigan copper specimens for between $5 and $75 per pound depending upon their size and form. Some nuggest were feathery, others solid and some were inclusions in a quartz looking mineral. He bought them from a dig-it-yourself tourist trap mine in the Upper Peninsula and I'll bet he didn't pay that much for them.

This was at the same rock and mineral show I bought an Utah trilobite for $25.

So I wonder if perhaps these folks who are offering you $500 per ounce for native platinum might be selling to rockhounds and collectors for far more.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:20 - ID#286230)
You sound like my broker except they see no real slowdown except that imposed by devaluation of oil and metals Buy tech stocks that will cut the cost of doing business was the message.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:23 - ID#226299)
@the scene
Tomo -- Yes, it WILL be interesting to see who winds up being the 'bag' man! We'll all hear the 'DOH' that goes around the world!!! HAR!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:23 - ID#43460)
EJ, Tolerent, re goldbuggery
Even though the majority of my investments are in something other than gold stocks there is a lot to be said for the recreational value of gold. Which is more exciting, RANGY or GM?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:25 - ID#20359)
EJ, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...while I think you have a valid point of view and
the information seems correct I myself fear the internet stocks and hi-tech firms because of a stern message in The Great Reckoning...the stated point being that the hi-techs would turn down and turn hard...and take the markets with them...

Now of course I do not believe every last thought stipulated but I gotta tell ya that book has a spooky blueprint on what is happening in the financial world...veeeeery spooky from this poster's point of view...

In addition I must say that I am not impressed with hitting the jackpot as I VERY much want to protect what I have and make a few bucks if possible...I do not feel the allure of the internet and hi-techs that I see in others...but that is just my personal makeup...a huge gulp and a puff to those that venture there and hit one out of the park...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:27 - ID#190411)
@tolerant1,and any that care to see US politics.
I hope that this works, as it is a pay site.
.John Disney, what's your read on the SA golds?
St. Helena is taking it in her shorts. Is SGOLY having problems?
The only news that I have been able to get on her, is that there might be mines owned by Harmony that will be closed, and allowed to be flooded, that would encroach on her.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:31 - ID#30345)
You might want to also factor in that the consumption of basic resources should contribute to higher pricing for these, as supplies are used and distributed. Sort of an entropy effect. Gibbs free energy and all is bound to go up as they become utilized. This would especially be true for oil and less salvagable materials. But with ever increasing populations the demand curve will have to shift as well. Sentiment is a funny thing, it can change. We are fortunate to be in one of those inevitable eddies; exploit the current. JOPO.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:32 - ID#254321)
Saudi Arabia in trouble? WJC to visit Israel/Palestine
LGB,All: Anyone know what is up with Saudi Arabia? I have seen two posts indicating that they are in dire financial straits, and I think Donald referred to same in passing.

This could be a major setback for US oil interests if Saudi Arabia suddenly shifts to anti-US -- there have been hints of this for some time. Oil prices would rise substantially if Saudi Arabia went off-line due to civil unrest. Bad timing with tensions rising between Israel and Palestine.

Am I right that WJC will visit Israel/Palestine Monday a week from now?

Sounds foolhardy. Despite my dislike of WJC, I would not wish him a sudden violent end.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:33 - ID#190411)

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:37 - ID#20359)
gagnrad, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I reckon that is true a statement as I have
seen...there is no question as to the validity of your post...aghhhhhh!!!

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:38 - ID#434108)
Save Clinton so we can Save the Stock-Market.......
and continue to sell our national soul.....
to the 'highest' - bidder.

The unavoidable "Law" of cause and effect.....
cannot be delayed, denied, manipulated, or ignored...
neither with impunity....nor for-ever...

as we sew
we reap

and thus, the harvest of economic winter
which is already engulfing Asia, Russia, and Latin America
begins to over-take
North America and Europe.

No matter the political apologists and excuse-mongers,
no matter the blind leading the blind,
no matter the wishful thinking.......
the heads buried in the sand.....

no matter the seemingly unending pretense
of "borrowing our way into prosperity"......

it is inevitable:

a world economy
ballooned into over-capacity and over-development;
riddled with pervasive distortion, inequity, and collusion;
exhausted from heedless exploitation of both earth and humankind

by means of
decades of fiat money and credit creation and expansion

can only deflate......
collapsing in upon itself.

a house of cards
cannot stand

it is inevitable

it is here


( footnote: from my 9/27/97 kitco post:
"When the tent collapses,
It will not be the center-post that goes first;
But the side posts,
And even the stakes. ...." )

Sincerely yours,
David Blair Macrory

Thomas Jefferson: "If the American people, ever allow their
nation's banking system, to control their money, first by
inflation, then by deflation; one day their children will
wake-up homeless,
on the continent their fathers conquered."

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:44 - ID#20359)
JTF, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I am far less concerned with the ME than I am
with what appears to be brewing in N.Korea...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:48 - ID#249244)
logj, some primitive thoughts on Russian palladium
You might be surpised to know this, but government delay
in signing export quotas for palladium, platinum..etc. is
no manupilation in most of the cases...and press releases by
Russians are quite sincere...What matters is the interpetation of
these releases by traders. Russian goverment considers PMs
to be the "Strategic Merchandise" of the Mother Russia, unlike
guys in RSA, who just sell PMs as the product of mining
industry, and so you got some "special attitude" from the
government when it's time to "please allow" export of
this materials...BUT, you can expect non-official sales
from Russian sources, although not on a limited
it "mafia" or whatever, but most of the time it's all legal.

Of course, from time to time press release may be used
by Russians to drive prices up, but do not give too much
credit to Russian traders...

There is a strong pressure from the Commies inside Russian
government not to sell PMs to the West, but at the same time
there is a considerable stockpile of palladium ready to be
sold - so what you see now is state of hesitation - to
allow sales or not to allow sales...There is a danger - what
if Russia decides to sell on a large scale - palladium will
plummet back to $200 area...because if such "permission is
granted", they gonna start selling and selling in order to
dump as many tonnes as they can as fast as they can, because
there is no garanties that "permission" will be given again
next time. Also, consider the cost of producing palladium
in Russia, which is probably around $75-100/ sells
at 200% premium in comparison with cost of production...
when spot gold is nearly sold at mining costs...Kind of
uncomfortable to deal with such slightly overpiced stuff...

In regard to future potential of palladium - if shortages
continue, its use will be trimmed in favour of platinum,
I guess...Don't see the future if it depends upon Russian

Just my amateur opinion.

Crystal Ball
(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:49 - ID#306412)
I was living in Salt Lake City when British Petroleum bought Kennecott. World's largest open pit copper mine in Magna, Utah, right near SLC.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:49 - ID#249244)
longi, sorry for "logj", my mistake...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:51 - ID#286224)
@JTF re: 23:32
"Despite my dislike of WJC, I would not wish him a sudden violent end.."

Roasted perhaps?

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:52 - ID#20359)
Japan and Hong Kong are getting spanked ain't pretty...

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:55 - ID#197293)
You made some very good points about the Russians. I always was under the impression that they delayed exports just to drive up prices. However you pointed out the Russian's view on PM's and your right. In some respects the Russians are very careful about what moves they make.

Thanks for sharing your view you tought me something new.

Kind Regards

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:55 - ID#30345)
THX again oris
Well, then maybe early february will see a price fall. This seems to happen pretty regularly though. It has been almost predicable for the past 5 or 6 years now. I don't trade Pd but if I did this would be the first thingy to exploit. Off to home.

(Thu Dec 10 1998 23:56 - ID#20359)
O'tay..since we can't by law talk about the President that way...can we deep fry
George Stephenopolous?