Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Kitco Inc. does not exercise any editorial control over the content of this discussion group and therefore does not necessarily endorse any statements that are made or assert the truthfulness or reliability of the information provided.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 00:00 - ID#72316)
You're not very tolerant but a Gulp and a Puff to you

(Sat Dec 19 1998 00:15 - ID#431200)
Gold's Plunge Put Mining Industry Off Mergers, Analysts Say,213,0~3~2~Metal-Diversified~PDG~BLO~347150390~~~~~,00.html

(Sat Dec 19 1998 00:32 - ID#257304)
"The Hollow Men"

We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar.
-- T. S. Eliot

(Sat Dec 19 1998 00:33 - ID#431200)
South Africa's Mining Companies Move Abroad to Extract Capital,213,0~3~2~Metal-Diversified~PDG~BLO~347932620~~~~~,00.html

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 00:36 - ID#428218)
DESERT FOX.....even the name is wrong, never mind anything else.....

They are not actually in the "desert", but in the "air".....

If the name is a reflection of the operation, not much thought has gone into it !!??


(Sat Dec 19 1998 00:37 - ID#286249)
What did they accomplish today?

Well, they got the euro gold tug [] safely into the xpt:sdr harbor [];

they have euro plat at the designated 294 meeting place, awaiting usa gold;

they have usa plat a buck away from its target ( a neatly managed six or seven dollar move under the cover of triple witch )
Notice that Kitco's board has it at 344...
Switzerland has it at 348...isn't life interesting?

all in all, not a bad day's work and no one noticed a thing. London closed gold at 291.6, in Switzerland it is being shown at 291.9 and
the next tricky bit is sliding the dollar into its allotted berth.
All in all, one suspects the harbor master is pleased.
Good night all.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 00:46 - ID#286249)
MISTAKE...shouldn't 'do' from memory {:-((
Well, they got the euro gold tug [] safely into the xpt:sdr harbor

one would think one could remember three ( 3 ) numbers for three ( 3 ) seconds!
time 4 small brandy? medicinal? yes!
good night {:- )

(Sat Dec 19 1998 00:46 - ID#20359)

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 00:48 - ID#428218)
RATS running off a sinking ship.......

Time to think of ones future !


Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 00:52 - ID#428218)
The shaming of a President........


(Sat Dec 19 1998 01:07 - ID#20359)
one of many pieces written at that time...

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 01:17 - ID#428218)
Clintons "PROBLEM".............


... ( T ) he discipline of the gold standard would surely reinforce anti-inflation policies, and make it far more difficult to resume financial profligacy. The redemption of dollars for gold in response to excess federal government-induced credit creation would be a strong political signal".

take the "en" out of golden



(Sat Dec 19 1998 01:50 - ID#252150)
Gusto Oro@Yeah, I have to admit that having Klinton & Gore is pretty bad
retribution. Now, if it was just up to me....

(Sat Dec 19 1998 01:55 - ID#20359)
Greenstone Gold, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I hope your hard work is paying off
with discoveries here, there and everywhere you look...did that storm get the best of ya or did it pass leaving you unscathed...nothing new here in the States...America appears to have completely lost its mind...perhaps it is fair to say it HAS lost its mind...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 01:57 - ID#252150)
War criminals@They're all war criminals. Klinton, his skinhead Chief of staff,
with the unprounacable name, Cohen, the used car salesman & last but not least MA, Hitler in drag.

IMO, they're just as guilty as the people that were tried at Nuemberg.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 02:07 - ID#227238)
Can't help but wonder about the form and timing of retaliation. That the players have refrained from any sort of recent activity, would lead one to conclude that they are biding their time for a effective moment.

What would be more delicious, from their point of view, than to mount an act of terrorism when and if the western world is totally distracted by Y2k effects? Little imagination is required to understand it's potential magnitude. ...... Let's hope Sun Tzu ( sp? ) has not been translated into Arabic.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 02:10 - ID#20359)
Namaste'..gulp and a puff to all...have a good evening or day as the case may be...
life is simple...its people that complicate it eh...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 02:31 - ID#267344)
wanna learn?
good stuff...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 02:31 - ID#257148)
One way of thinking...
Hmmmm, if the evil empire of Merka is respectful enough to bomb us before our holy festival of Ramadan, we should show them equal respect and retaliate a few days before their holy festival of Christmas. Such consideration show how civilised we can be.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 02:51 - ID#391172)
Has Irwin come back to life?

I am amazed at the number of military men mouthing that "weapons of mass destruction" theme like it meant something. Anthrax, indeed,we can handle that...nerve gas ridiculous..neuclear capability..heh heh heh. How ignorant can you get, they are serious, who the hell is programing this? maybe the same bunch what keeps the price of gold under $300?

I don't know any Kitcoites what bought this crap, altho most are conservatives. Republicans are conservatives? right? Maybe they aren't all bad then.

I hope Larry Flint investigates Ken Starr. It's all a white-wash,you know, Monica is just a dodge so they don't get into the China thing, republicans might get thier tit in a wringer too? There's gotta be a reason.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 03:00 - ID#344326)
Send me your email address.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 03:12 - ID#284255)
Swing chart updated

Euro transition to unleash millennium bug>

Y2K minister called on to resign

You'll need to resplice the urls.

Act of good faith boosts fight against Y2K bug

I'd have a good look around this site for info.
They will have a search engine soon.

No sale in sight yet - just preoccupied.


John Disney
(Sat Dec 19 1998 03:15 - ID#24135)
wait a minute ..
Saddam Husein called Mother Blair
Clinton's toy-boy ..
Has Saddam been LURKING at Kitco ???

(Sat Dec 19 1998 03:22 - ID#386129)
SDRer...your 00.37
could you email me

(Sat Dec 19 1998 03:45 - ID#257148)
It's time to 'fess up. I'm saddam. No, wait a minute, I'm insane.

Everyone lurks at kitco. We've seen our languish picked up by others, usually by journalists who, never having any original ideas, must 'mine' the web for tomorrow's copy.

I'd be suprised if AG isn't presented with "last night's best kitco posts" with his breakfast chocolate donut and espresso fare.


(Sat Dec 19 1998 03:47 - ID#344326)
Beatiful post!

(Sat Dec 19 1998 03:51 - ID#187109)
*John Disney*
Whose Opine as a mining stock expert I respect:

Do you have any thoughts on TVX? Have you ever traded it......would you ever trade it? I know there are a bazillion stox out there and you mostly concentrate on SA mines, however, do you have an opinion regarding this Co? TVX?

Thanks JD. I can awaken tomorrow to a hot cup-o-joe and a solid, well versed commentary on this, this TVX....... ( eh? ) .........c'mon ya ole Virginian you......


(Sat Dec 19 1998 03:55 - ID#344326)
Just a goldbug........
I've been lurking over a year now. A goldbug in nature by the dissapointment of where a see the world going and feeling isolated and ridiculed by others because I'm ahead of the curve. There is a poetic sense to being a goldbug. When I first found Kitco there was a bit more of that. That's the stuff I treasure more than being able to view a good chart............

(Sat Dec 19 1998 03:59 - ID#187109)
My 1.6875 worth....
I think I will be able to pick it up for under 1 11/16 ( support
? ) , or even it's yearly lows pretty soon.......I am basing this on my 'suspicions' of gold setting some new lows. Tick-tock.........
JD - and what of this sgoly?

(Sat Dec 19 1998 04:05 - ID#187109)
market watch...........more uggerlies...
"If the market can't find support in the world turmoil,"

I'm not very hopeful," one trader quipped......... ( ugh ) ...




Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 04:07 - ID#428218)


I am still at Kookynie in Western Australia this saturday finishing off an Rc drill programme....early stage exploration, but on old turn of the centuary mines. Going okish, looks ok, but I will only know when I get the fire assays baxk in two weeks time or so.

The storm was a bit of a had mellowed a bit, but we go and inch plus of down pour in 20 minutes.... the lightning was fierce... the drillers did not stay on the rig for any fireworks.

Off to the Philippines in early February to visit Lepanto Mining's operations at Victoria and Far Southeast Porphry, two of the largets gold and copper gold resources in the world, should be interesting. I will also try and "behave" myself.......

Och aye the noooooooooooo....


(Sat Dec 19 1998 04:12 - ID#257148)
the skirl o' the pipes is something I do na miss
How many centuars in one hundred years?

(Sat Dec 19 1998 04:19 - ID#257148)
for the Hagman

Ahh, the soothing o' the Pipes... Whenever I find myself missing its
melodious sounds, I just toss the cat in the dryer on low heat...
--Jordan Montgomery

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 04:49 - ID#428218)

I know that you are a Kiwi, so you have an excuse......BUT

YER CRACKEN UP !!!!!!!!!

(Sat Dec 19 1998 04:50 - ID#284255)
Y2K adds lustre to the bright metal in USA, sales soar

Go gold

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 05:17 - ID#428218)

investment demand as measured by ( GOLD ) coin sales is up a massive 133 per cent at 50.3 tonne.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 06:08 - ID#255284)
Cracken upp, eh? Mois? Every goldbug seems to cracken upp at sometime. We've seen a lot of evidence of goldbugs cracken up. Cracken upp? looking over at the navvy, bending over and fixin' yer pipes? Cracken up?


My head is firmly swewed inta my thingee//

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 06:19 - ID#428218)

I Scots were never one for joining the navy.....we left that to the Poms!

I will send you some superglue for should help to keep you together.....

We could always rename you.....Humpy Dumpy.....

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 06:23 - ID#428218) must always remember......

...the Scots and the Kiwis have alot in common..........plenty of sheep in them dar hills.............

(Sat Dec 19 1998 06:24 - ID#255284)
I said navvy mon, not navy.
They share a common etymology, but have diverted in meaning.
Is Krakatoa East of Java?

(Sat Dec 19 1998 06:32 - ID#255284)
Other things in common

The thistle: your national flower {?}
our farmers' plague
The Furze/gorse, and heather of your lowlands reek of Scotland, and
our farmers' plague

A common dislike of the bagpipes' skirrrl


to sleeep .. perchance to dream of

When Scrooge McDuck said "Baa Humbug" he was referring to a good friend of mine


(Sat Dec 19 1998 06:38 - ID#248180)
Rhodium $750++
Relax Kats & Kittens: Gold & PGM's will break-out fast and move upward sharply without much fore-warning.
SDER has suggested quite correctly that this week has been a bit of final lever/level adjustment before the big moves up.
Accumulat~~~ Cheers and Good Night from the land of OZ Down Under.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 06:43 - ID#25174)
There is a great disturbance
in the force. The machinations of the faceless ones have peturbed the stability of gold. They may yet rue their actions when POG swings out of their control. Success breeds contempt, then folly , then ruin.

P.S. Bill Clinton - The saddest thing about the whole affair is the huge support amoungst american women for a man whos' actions indicate his contempt for them. To what can you anchor yourself when moral lassitude pervades all of society.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 07:09 - ID#370236)
@ au*stralian: Eloquently stated.
I'm a yank, but can't understand american women's seeming devotion
to this womanizer.

John Disney
(Sat Dec 19 1998 07:38 - ID#24135)
merkan women and Clinton..
.. women should be beaten regularly ..
.. like rugs ..

George Saunders

(Sat Dec 19 1998 07:41 - ID#409349)
Mike Sheller
MOST excellent post on 18:39 yesterday!!!

(Sat Dec 19 1998 07:56 - ID#412172)
EB TVX, & oh its good to be home again, thanks Auric!!!!!
EB, security has charts on TVX and seems to like it. TVX is now on its major support, a buy for long term, but short term traders would sell any break of this support. Its a pay site but may have a free trial period.

Also note AEM, it is moving up on good volume due to report of good drill results at its mine. Check it out its got $2 cash/share on a 4.25 a share stock and steady growth. Bought options on this one when it was 4. Tit for tat, let me know what you think of AEM, Agnico-Eagle Mines.

John Disney
(Sat Dec 19 1998 07:58 - ID#24135)
there's no law says you gotta buy gold mines
for EB ..
.. ST Helena .. I reported ealier .. they had been
doing the old vaccum cleaner trick in their
grinders .. then they stopped .. and all the gold
dust was in the cracks .. sounds crazy right ..
.. anyway they had an awful 3rd quarter and that was
their explanation .. I sold most of my stock ..

TVX .. 162 million shares .. scattered operations..
with 10 mill oz of reserves ( not much per share )
.. total costs/oz as follow la coipa ( 319 ) crixaz ( 247 )
brazilia ( 319 ) musselwhite ( 329 ) new britannia ( 388 ) ..

I cant see a bright future for this stock in my
crusty ball.

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:04 - ID#428218) seem to be getting a wee bit upset.....

Did the Scots import the Thistle to New Zealand ????????

The Thistle being a National Emblem.....a recognition that the Scots understand "hard times", and can deal with them !?

Wa's like us !


Compliments of the season



Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:09 - ID#428218)

Possibly, one of the largets undeveloped platinum group element ( PGE ) resources in the world is the Giles Complex and Jameson Ranges in central Australia. This area is subject to Aboriginal approval concerning access and exploration. I would suggest that these areas are on the scale of the Bushveld Complex in South Africa.

Rhodium.....going like a rocket....or should I say a "cruise...."



Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:09 - ID#428218)

Possibly, one of the largets undeveloped platinum group element ( PGE ) resources in the world is the Giles Complex and Jameson Ranges in central Australia. This area is subject to Aboriginal approval concerning access and exploration. I would suggest that these areas are on the scale of the Bushveld Complex in South Africa.

Rhodium.....going like a rocket....or should I save a "cruise...."



(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:11 - ID#50148)
Roebear, I posted this a few days ago. It refers to GGO PDG TVX

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:15 - ID#428218)
GOLD, GOLD, GOLD....................

(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:16 - ID#242325)
Unfortunately you are right that our country may someday have to pay a big price for it's crimes in the Gulf. Important to remember that bad as this bombing is, the real crime has been seven years of inhuman sanctions that have killed hundreds of thousands of civilians according to Amnesty International.

But what galls me more than anything is the sheer hypocrisy of all this. The US has never has a problem with genocidal policies by FRIENDLY dictators. We supported Sadaam as he was killing hundreds of thousands in his war against Iran. But he suddenly became a Hitler when he stopped following US orders and started to support Arab nationalism.

Bottom line -- the argument that the US is the great defender of human rights in the world is a big lie -- one of the biggest in history. We have never had any problem with the most egregious policy of killing as long as the "right" people are getting killed. Like the one million or so "communists" slaughtered with US approval when Suharto seized power in Indonesia in 1965.

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:29 - ID#428218)

"Bottom line -- the argument that the US is the great defender of human rights in the world is a big lie -- one of the biggest in history".

You may wish to extends this argument to the US$ a reserve currency, not only is it a lie, but a JOKE.

Hedge Funds "investing" via the US$ do not invest but rape economies. If the US$ was a focused clean currency, the current situation would not exist.

I wonder if the US$ is actually printed using trees grown in America ?



(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:30 - ID#173274)
@the scene
UNSCOM complicity?

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:36 - ID#428218)
Eldorado...........I wonder if.........

Iraq actually received a copy of Butlers last report ??

Timing would suggest that they did not.

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:41 - ID#428218)
It makes you wonder............

When you look at the, generalised, histogram........

Has Klingon been "put" in there to purposely "unhinge" the US economy ???

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:41 - ID#428218)
It makes you wonder............

When you look at thei, generaqlised, histogram........

Has Klingon been "put" in there to purposely "unhinge" the US economy ???

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:44 - ID#428218)
it makes you wonder......

When you look at the, generalised, histogram........

Has Klingon been "put" in there to purposely "unhinge" the US economy ???

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:48 - ID#428218)
aurator.....what is the difference between......

a foid monzosyenite, and a foid monzodiorite ??

A hint, it's not the foid or the monzo.....


Good nite


Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:54 - ID#428218)
John Disney...G'day to you Sir.....

Is this for real ?


Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 08:56 - ID#428218)
John Disney.....any comments on.....

Lepanto Mining and Manila Mining....????


(Sat Dec 19 1998 09:15 - ID#183109)
Randgold Resources Quarterly Slide Show.

Very nice.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 09:18 - ID#365190)
today's Drudgereport


President Clinton issued a highly classified order to the Pentagon on Sunday morning that began a 72-hour countdown to the air assault on Iraq, the NEW YORK TIMES will report on Friday. Clinton was in Jerusalem on the first day of a whirlwind trip to Israel and the Palestinian territories.

"Acting on early word from the chief weapons inspector in Iraq, President Clinton set in motion Wednesday's military strikes a full two days before the inspector formally declared to the Security Council that Saddam Hussein was once again in defiance of the U.N. inspection program."

The paper notes that Clinton did not make the "final decision to undertake military action until after he had held a discussion aboard Air Force One [Tuesday] with Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and a half-dozen members of Congress who traveled with them to the Middle East."

(Sat Dec 19 1998 09:34 - ID#156161)
Is it possible to visit mines in RSA?

If so, how deep could a visitor go and would children be allowed?

(Sat Dec 19 1998 10:04 - ID#119358)
@deep into d minor.......a painly vivid blotch'0''
clitton is but a common he must receive a great blemish on his simpleton face....hopefully, the pimplous will be ugliously equal to the boil he has cultivated on the arse of the presidency. we needent waste a bullet, he rests now with the other self inflicteds.

unheard numbers of good deeds must he perform to regain grace. and he is off to a very bad start, no doubt.

to those awaiting the second coming of the christ, I have startling news to convey. he came again, and he left pissed off. I pray he will give us one more chance.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 10:09 - ID#20359)
CNN...I used to call it the Clintler News Network but I have modified it to the Communist
News Network...I just watched some of the proceedings and then listened to every individual who WORKS for CNN change everything around completely...innuendo, slant, spin...

What shallow dirtbags...I hope they all swallow their tongues and choke...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 10:10 - ID#20359)
STU...STU...STUDIO_R, Namaste' GULP and a PUFF to ya...where you bin...tried
to email to no me when you get the chance...EB as well...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 10:21 - ID#258195)
Friday's Gold and Silver Lease Rates and Weekly Summary
For Friday 18th Dec calculated from data published in Today's FT.
Period------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month

Mean GoldLR------3.93---------------3.91-------------3.69-----------------3.43
Gold Lease Rate---1.38---------------1.34-------------1.37-----------------1.57
( Change ) ----- ( - 0.24 ) ------- ( + 0.05 ) ------ ( + 0.02 ) ----------- ( + 0.07 )

Silver Lend Rate----4.00--------------3.30-------------2.35-----------------2.05
Silver Lease Rate---1.31--------------1.95--------------2.71-----------------2.95
( Change ) -------- ( - 0.20 ) -------- ( + 0.08 ) ------- ( 0.00 ) ---------- ( + 0.03 )
$LIBOR = BBA London rate fixed at 11am
Mean Gold Lending Rates and Silver Lending Rates are supplied to the FT by NM Rothschild.
Lease Rate equals $LIBOR minus Lending Rate
( Change ) = change in lease rates since previous day.

For comparison with $LIBOR, the FT rates for US Dollar CD's ( mid rates ) are as follows:
Period------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month
US$ CD's-----------4.90-------------4.77---------------4.76---------------4.72 ( Mid rates )
( Change ) ----- ( + 0.08 ) -------- ( + 0.03 ) --------- ( + 0.04 ) ------------ ( + 0.04 )
Note the further rise in rates for US$ CD's yesterday - on top of Thursday's rise. This rise brings their offered rates into better alignment with LIBOR, especially after yesterday's fall in 1-month $LIBOR.

Weekly Summary of Gold and Silver Lease Rates
Monday 14th to Friday 18th Dec
Period ---- | Mon,,,,,,,Tues,,,,,,,Weds,,,,,,,Thurs,,,,,,,Fri
12-Month-| 1.43,,,,,,,1.43,,,,,,,,1.51,,,,,,,,,,1.50,,,,,,,,1.57
6-Month - | 1.29,,,,,,,1.30,,,,,,,,1.36,,,,,,,,,,1.35,,,,,,,,1.37
3-Month - | 1.16,,,,,,,1.23,,,,,,,,1.30,,,,,,,,,,1.29,,,,,,,,1.34
1-Month-- | 1.40,,,,,,,1.51,,,,,,,,1.65,,,,,,,,,,1.62,,,,,,,,1.38
Period --- | Mon,,,,,,,Tues,,,,,,,Weds,,,,,,,Thurs,,,,,,,Fri
12-Month| 2.97,,,,,,,2.97,,,,,,,,2.95,,,,,,,,,,2.92,,,,,,,,2.95
6-Month- | 2.66,,,,,,,2.66,,,,,,,,2.71,,,,,,,,,,2.71,,,,,,,,2.71
3-Month- | 1.97,,,,,,,1.97,,,,,,,,1.87,,,,,,,,,,1.87,,,,,,,,1.95
1-Month- | 1.53,,,,,,,1.53,,,,,,,,1.56,,,,,,,,,,1.51,,,,,,,,1.31
The next Weekly Summary will be on Saturday 2nd January 1999. Regards..............Dabchick

(Sat Dec 19 1998 10:22 - ID#258195)
Valuing Gold independent of fiat currencies
Here are the Dabchick Gold Index figures ( calculated from the London Bullion Market figures as supplied to the F.T. by N.M.Rothschild ) for the past week. All figures refer to the London close.
These figures are intended to show changes in the True Value of Gold relative to its value in January 1982. Because these values are independent of debased fiat paper currencies, they are also independent of the inflation caused to all other prices by governments that indulge in currency debasement.
Date--- | Close | High | Low |
14 Dec | 66.23 | 67.31 | 66.95 |
15 Dec | 67.81 | 67.96 | 67.70 |
16 Dec | 68.16 | 68.24 | 67.77 |
17 Dec | 67.69 | 68.33 | 67.56 |
18 Dec | 67.21 | 67.73 | 67.01 |
( Basis : Jan 1982 = 100 )

NB The Index tested the overhead resistance at the bottom of the 68 - 70 trading range on Wednesday and was turned back down again. A quick fall to the 66.00 level followed by a bounce up above 66.60, would generate a further Buy signal. This would re-inforce the several Buys that have already been generated in the 66 - 70 range. We still live in hope.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 10:24 - ID#119358)
@"Mr. Tweaker......Mr. Tweaker!!!!!!!".............
"I yield my next five minutes to The Gentleman from the Great Country of the Island that is Loooooonnnng.........." ( tap...tap...tap......... )

( the tweaker speaks... )

"The Great One of Tolerance may now have the floor!"

"Tank tweaker......"

Yup, studious is ear deep in dis muzac.......gotta' get serious now to offset the negative scrapeage inflicted by ate' dollar oil. uglious, no doubt. $free my pigs!!!!!!!!!! $freeee my pigs!!!!!!

Un hugeO gulpO y un furnace-like puffO to YA!!! O' GreatOne'....... ( hack ) ( ummmmmmmm. )

(Sat Dec 19 1998 10:24 - ID#317211)
Dramatic day on the floor of US House of Representatives
Bob Livingston resigns on national TV as Speaker of the House
because of marital indiscretions, admits and apologizes to citizens
and his family. He did the HONORABLE thing.
Will WJC now follow his lead? I'll bet not.
Clinton has NO honor. This will prove it for the world to see.

go gold ( No, not that way! )

(Sat Dec 19 1998 10:39 - ID#254130)

kitco graph at drd ( ? )

(Sat Dec 19 1998 10:40 - ID#244446)
The Winds of Change
"Mr. Madge reports that consumers are swarming for the small fractional Maple Leaf coins -- particularly a 1/10th of an ounce coin retailing for $38 ( U.S. ) .

Still, he knows of one U.S. resident who plunked down $15-million for 50,000 ounces of Maple Leaf gold coins. "That sale was directly related to Y2K," he said. "It's pretty serious [business]." . . . .

(Sat Dec 19 1998 11:03 - ID#253246)
@anyone thoughts on tax loss selling of pm stocks
Unable to decide on which PM's to unload to offset some gains ( not from pm's )

Losers SSRIF down $15K
CAU down $8k
TVX down $6K

Can't even selll losers in a IRA

(Sat Dec 19 1998 11:12 - ID#280110)
Cherokee - Underground facilities your 22:35 Fri, FEMA and other USgov t
agencies have extensive underground facilities in the US. These were recently discussed during the last 2 hours of the November 5, 1988 program Sightings on the Radio. Dr. Richard Sauder discussed his book The Sauder Report Notes from the Underground on this program and talked about underground nucleur powered machines that could bore and melt a 50' diameter hole at a speed limited by the ability of the molten rock to solidify. This tape can be heard at It also discusses the new Denver airport. Is this network of tunnels in preparation for a potential attack or a response to natural disasters that may occur? Maybe this is where part of the deficit is going.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 11:24 - ID#253246)
For PM CO Management Golden Sphincter of the year Award

After taking a $43K ass whipping on my pm picks this year I took Fleckensteins advise and subscribed to John Doody"s GSA to try to
get a little more insight from some of these companies since you'll never
hear the whole storry from management. According the GSA's december
issue Doody's top 10 is down %8.4 .

I think PM management should be rewarded for some of their decisions that cost shareholders alot of money. This week I read in an older issue of GSA ( june 98 ) where Silver Standard was drilling the La Morelense
property in Mexico spending $$$$$ only to find out the property is in a nature reserve and the government won't allow mining. Even thou SSRIF is a silver company I nonminate Robert Quartermain ( pres of SSRIF ) as my candidate to receive the 1998
"Golden Sphincter of the year award"

Thanks BOB you did a great job for SSRIF shareholders this year and maybe you can fit time in your busy map reading schedule next year to attend the "BOB Fest" in Avon Colorado and show the rest of the Bob's your award that I'm sure you are going to win

(Sat Dec 19 1998 11:26 - ID#20359)
NEWS FLASH...Island that is Long secedes from the United States...
Mr. Speaker...I thank you...I thank the gentleman from the Hallowed Halls of the House of Blues...I take great pride in announcing the Island that is Long has decided to secede from the United States...we refuse to take part in any discussion of a President who seeks one law for himself while watching the honorable and brave men and women of the United States military who DIE to protect these United Stateslive under a different law...In as much as the President is a coward and by his own hand has written that he loathes the United States Military...I, representing the entire Island that is Long...will not stand by and watch one set of laws rule the lives of those in the military while the commander in chief insists that he is above those very same laws...

We the People of the Island that is Long have passed a referendum to secede and REFUSE to be Clintlered...

We REFUSE to send any more of our BRAVE men and women into battle as we REFUSE to have them serve under a coward...a hypocrite and one whowith his supporters believes in one law for him and one law for the people...while he openly LOATHES these very same men and women as he sends them into harms way

We the People of the Island that is Long take great pride in offering a collective FU to the supporters of and he who they support...WE REFUSE to be Clintlered...

Thank you Mr. Speaker

(Sat Dec 19 1998 11:28 - ID#348286)
IMO, don't unload TVX. Numerous analysts have marked it as a top takeover candidate. Historically December/early-January is the worst time to sell PM stocks...... Im thinking of getting more TVX.......

(Sat Dec 19 1998 11:35 - ID#28994)
Nope... no separation....unless you take Quebec with you.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 11:42 - ID#242325)
Pat Buchanann on Iraq attack:

December 18, 1998

If constructive engagement was the right policy for the Evil Empire, why is there no other way with
Iraq than total sanctions? If deterrence held the Red Army at bay in Europe, can it not hold
Saddam? Can we not contain him and deny him his worst weapons -- without denying Iraq's
people the necessities of life?...

It is a tradition among Americans that when the guns fire, we rally behind our fighting men and
commander in chief. Yet even this tradition seems to have fallen victim to this president.

Three days after his disastrous grand jury testimony and speech to the nation on Aug. 17, Bill
Clinton launched an attack on a "poison gas" factory in Sudan, a factory oddly unguarded, since it
was said to be a site that produced the most awful of outlawed weapons.

Now, hours before his impeachment vote, the missiles have flown again. No one can know what is
in a man's heart, but it is hard to believe that Bill Clinton's political crisis did not figure in the
timing of that attack. And who among us did not wonder, on hearing that U.S. cruise missiles were
winging toward Baghdad, whether the president might be cynically exploiting America's

All the trust is gone; even the president knows it. Twice on Wednesday, he was compelled to
assure us the strikes were "the unanimous decision of my national security team." The smug youth
who wrote that the best and brightest of his generation "loathed" the military now depends on its
credibility, as he retains almost none of his own. But if we have a failed president, it is also time to
ask if U.S. policy toward Iraq is not also deeply flawed.

Clinton declared on Wednesday that he is acting to protect the "people throughout the Middle East
and around the world." How does Saddam threaten "the world"? If we "fail to respond," said
Clinton, Saddam "will make strikes again at his neighbors ... make war on his own people ( and )
develop weapons of mass destruction, deploy them, and he will use them."

Let's deconstruct that. Yes, Saddam makes "war on his own people," but who inflicts the greater
suffering -- Saddam or a U.S.-led embargo that has claimed the lives of 239,000 children, 5 years
old and under, since 1990?

Michael Powell writes in The Washington Post, "That ( 239,000 ) is the latest -- and most
conservative -- independent estimate of the number of Iraqi children who have died of malnutrition,
wasting and dysentery since sanctions were imposed."

If sanctions have failed to topple Saddam and have snuffed out the lives of a quarter million
children, can such a policy be moral? Where is the proportionality? Indeed, the embargo, not the
strikes on military targets, appears the immoral element of our Iraqi policy.

" ( Y ) ou can't lay that guilt trip on me," snapped Secretary of State Madeleine Albright when asked
about the embargo and the children. OK, but who do we lay it on? Without America, there would
be no sanctions, no 25,000 Iraqi kids 5 and under dying each year of deprivation.

Clinton said we are protecting Iraq's "neighbors." But Iran is larger and more powerful than Iraq,
is building weapons of mass destruction, and has been cited more times for supporting terrorism.
And why should we defend Iran?

Turkey's troops march in and out of Northern Iraq with impunity. Another neighbor, Syria, is also
on the honor role of regimes that harbor terrorists and is smuggling contraband into Iraq.

Jordan sided with Iraq in the Gulf War. Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are under the shield of a United
States that could pulverize Iraq in 10 minutes if a Scud arrived with mustard gas or anthrax. That is
why Saddam never used a chemical weapon on us or on Israel.

It is time to ask how grave a threat Iraq is to America. In the Gulf War, Iraq did not attack us; we
attacked Iraq. We launched the 'round-the-clock air strikes with 2,000 planes for six weeks; Iraq
fired back a handful of Scuds. Iraq killed scores of Americans; we killed thousands of Iraqis.

Yes, Iraq was a enemy, but Hanoi killed 58,000 Americans and turned South Vietnam into a
Stalinist hell that makes Iraq look like Vermont. Yet we have normalized relations with Hanoi.

China is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers in Korea. Its regime has
on its hands the blood of tens of millions of Chinese and is targeting U.S. cities with ICBMs. Yet
China is now our "strategic partner." Is Iraq, with no air force, no navy, no ICBMs and an
economy not 1 percent of ours, the greater threat?

If constructive engagement was the right policy for the Evil Empire, why is there no other way with
Iraq than total sanctions? If deterrence held the Red Army at bay in Europe, can it not hold
Saddam? Can we not contain him and deny him his worst weapons -- without denying Iraq's
people the necessities of life?

Again, it is not the U.S. policy of containment of Iraq, or even of air strikes on missile or military
bases, that raises questions of morality. It is a sanctions regime that is killing the Iraqi people in
body and spirit. Surely, a humane republic can devise a wiser and more moral policy than this.

1998 - Patrick J. Buchanan - All Rights Reserved

(Sat Dec 19 1998 11:42 - ID#20359)
skinny, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...we did NOT ask for permission and our
comment to Quebec is that we lead by example...Quebec must do what is good for Quebec...this process of globalized homogenization has ended here on the Island that is Long...for good...diversity IS good...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 12:23 - ID#20359)
and so it goes...CHINA crushes democracy...Slick Willie's friends on the move...sickening...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 12:24 - ID#432395)
SSO (SSRIF)--Got taken real good on that one too!
Anybody think there is any hope for this co?

(Sat Dec 19 1998 12:26 - ID#254112)
@OLD GOLD: Thanks for pointing to this great article
from Pat Buchanan.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 12:58 - ID#219363)
There's a corporate chief executive officer sitting on his balcony looking out over the city, wrapped in a heavy blanket, feeling the cold wind whip around him. He's watching the silent clouds drift high above the tall buildings and hearing the muffled sounds of traffic and activity far below. He has listened to all the facts, tried to find consensus, and moments ago he held is wife close and cried like a child. He's stuck, and the tension in his mind is ripping his soul apart. Somewhere there's a corporate chief executive officer sitting on his balcony trying to decide who will have to lose. Sales are off in Asia and the company is losing money, the lines have been drawn, a choice must finally be made. He runs the options over in his head in a never-ending circle of emptiness: falling stock prices, shareholder's losing value, supplier's losing their contracts, employees losing their jobs. He alone must make the hard choices and alone is how he feels, nothing gives him comfort, he cares so much for everyone who depends on him. Somewhere there's a corporate chief executive officer sitting on his balcony with a tear in his eye, looking to the clouds, to God, for answers.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:05 - ID#339274)
"When" is more important than "what" to buy and sell.
Do your homework and you have the edge.: )

-Pat Buchanan hits it on the nail again.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:15 - ID#348129)
@Purjurer and Common Criminal Clinton
Today this liar will be impeached and sent to trial in the US Senate.
His band of ministers and White House aids have steadfastlty supported him and are just as tainted now.
High technology and investment keeps the US the top world power, certainly not any of it's leaders.
Iraq, with the backing of some top lawyers, could launch the biggest lawsuits in history againsts the US, Britain and the UN, in the near future.
I have a gut feeling that SADDAM will be the WINNER in the end, with Clinton and his White House Mob going down in flames.

What a shamefull day for America, and it's lap dogs who dare say nothing.......

John Disney
(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:16 - ID#24135)
For Mr Greenstone ..
what is your problem with that
loverly DRD site .. ???

.. All the world needs is more
platinum resources .. Northam ..
a marginal producer .. sits on
100 mill oz of resources .. you
can buy it for less that 5$/oz ..
.. the barplat mine is mothballed.
.. God knows what the resource
base of Amplat and Implat are ..
.. suggest let those abo chaps
keep up the burial efforts there
or we'll have platinum at 250$/oz
too. Supply - demand balances can
be VERY misleading ..

John Disney
(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:20 - ID#24135)
politics ..
.. Livingston is a stand up guy ..

.. compare him to Gephart Bonnier
Conyers .. and that great ape Clinton..
.. what a total lack of class ..

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:20 - ID#20359)
Envy, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...and lots of wheres there are goldbugs taking
a collective sigh of relief as they look out over their precious...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:24 - ID#186147)
The Stupid Party
The abysmal stupidity of the Republican Party is mind-bogg ling! The criminal President, WJB Clinton, who has a history of bribery, treason and other high crimes,
reaching from his youth to the present, has just meen impeached on charges which are NOT, and
for which he can never be convicted. Man o man! The Klintonistas are GOOD at what they

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:25 - ID#186147)

John Disney
(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:29 - ID#24135)
poms ..
.. whos that brit foreign secretary??
Robin Hood ?? Peter Cook ?? you know
who I mean .. I cannot believe this
guy .. He is a walking talking
monty python show .. talk about
pompous !! yuukk .. but I think
mother blair gets that feeling
that he has hitched his wagon to
a falling star .. and that he was
taken in by his idol .. big bill..
.. he's making a list of what an
evil nasty man saddam is .. and how
he threatens the whole world ..
.. what bullsh!t ..

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:34 - ID#20359)
Oldman, Namaste' gulp and a puff to are wrong...perjury is a crime...he will

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:37 - ID#348129)
@NUMERO UNO - If all 4 approved then that will be especially devastating....
Saturday December 19, 1:24 pm Eastern Time
U.S. House approves first article of impeachment

WASHINGTON, Dec 19 ( Reuters ) - The House of Representatives approved the first article of impeachment against President Bill Clinton on Saturday, setting the stage for only the second presidential impeachment trial in U.S. history.

The article passed by the House alleges Clinton committed perjury during his testimony before independent counsel Kenneth Starr's grand jury in August.

( Note: this article is ``in progress''; there will likely be an update soon. )

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:41 - ID#186147)
toleratn1: The Clintons will leave the White House only at the point of a gun. Fully TWO THIRDS of the 'sheeple' support them as of this minute. New polls taken over the next day or so will show his support growing. If they decide to allow an election in 2000, Hillary's election is a slam dunk.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:44 - ID#339274)
The cohorts of Clingon,having kept the market up,might now
want it to sink with the Senate trial to begin.
American public is going to vilify the Republicans for
seeing their stock values hitting the basement in the coming year.
This event is an outright sell to the market.With the CRB already
low,new lows are yet to come when deflationary fires are getting
stoked up in earnest.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:45 - ID#20359)
Oldman, Namaste' gulp and a are wrong...would you care to make a wager
on your rock solid beliefs?...I bet a candle...and the loser must light it and watch it until it has burned itself out...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:49 - ID#186147)
Wagering window oopen every day at your friendly neighborhood brokerage
tolerant1: I have been wagering on Slick Willie and his criminal cohort every day for years. Highly profitable and simple: Just buy the dips in stocks and sell the rallies in real "stuff".: )

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:49 - ID#431200)
Dabchick (Friday's Gold and Silver Lease Rates and Weekly Summary)
Dabchick Do you know an URL that publishes the Gold and Silver Lease Rates .Thanks

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:50 - ID#227238)
Yer a cynic. I like that in a man. ...... Your assertion makes perfectly good sense as well.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:54 - ID#35757)
@Oldman (The Stupid Party)
The standard for presidential guilt ( in any matter ) is the smoking gun. The blue dress was the only smoking gun, guilty as Clitton may have been on the other matters.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 13:54 - ID#187109)
*weird chart stuff*
let's see......Yen rising, gold and Platinum falling......hmmmmmmmm....



it's done from here.......... ( imo ) will fumblefeck around from here and then travel lower....... ( imo ) .......and the USD will resume it's climb...... ( imo ) ;- )

Now, if the metals have been diverging from the en thingy then it should be safe to assume ( not ) that they will rise if en falls ( not ), it's your call. I am short gold.......and will continue selling into thses rallies until these here charts tell me step forward and two steps back.......uh huh.

gold weekly


plat weekly


I can't get a handle on this plat thingy. Some indicators are positive some are JD says S/D figures can be deceiving as well...........

btw, JD, I guess I don't hafta buy a gold mine........I just think some of these prices are pretty low. I do see them going lower in the near term, so I've been waiting............I see a spike down and ANOTHER V bottom forming......I just want to be there when it happens........ ( don't we all ) ...

I did read somewhere that TVX can pull gold outta the ground at 200/oz. Your #'s don't seem to match. I am totally perplexed...............but that is OK, I live most of my life in total perplexiality ( new word ) .....why should this be any different? fight the xmas crowds


(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:00 - ID#187109)
tol#1...G&P to ya.......did you see it also?
That Stustustudio making a brief appearance and then running back into the hills????? What is he up to?? Hmmmmmmmm.....


away.................. ( ? )


(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:01 - ID#317211)
@Cyclist: Perhaps the stage is now set
For a large slide in the equity markets. Lord knows, economic conditions
and a war have not caught this markets' attention. A real impeachment otta' do the trick.
Day traders will be setting their alarm clocks very early for Monday morning, and will be an interesting test for E-Trade system efficiencies.
Agree that gold may slide a bit furthur, but not much. IMO

Con mucho gusto, GO GOLD!!!

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:02 - ID#421269)

He will never resign. This country and the world are in for pure hell.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:06 - ID#254288)

The goldbugs being the distributors.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:08 - ID#20359)
EB, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...he has been locked in the studio and became
so entranced by the music that all thoughts of the precious left his mind as he was engulfed by the blues.....................................
he mailed me in his post euphoric state and said an electronic parchment was on its way to ya...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:08 - ID#119358)
@KeeeeerrrrrrSplat!!!!!............Envy.O.........yes, somewhere............
there's a poor little homeless oilmon' sharing a day-old eggOmuppin' with his pal, the pigmon, taking it to the streets underneath the balcony o' the corporate summabitch who just took flight from the highrise........SPLAT!!!! ohmeeOhmy.....just more bad timing.

asi' es la vida....

Salud! y Happy Holydays!!!! to YA!!! y yours!

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:12 - ID#187109)
you vagrant you....A warm and hearty G&P to ya!!!!! Good to see you back. Now, carry on soldier............ ( ! )

away.......the woman is screaming........... ( ohno ) .


(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:16 - ID#20359)
Oldman, Namaste' gulp and a puff to spin on this please...I say Clinton
will resign and Hillary will not be President...if you would care to wager on THOSE TWO ITEMS I am open to suggestions...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:16 - ID#119358)
@EBells'O'Christmas............ringading.....dingaring....sooooon it will be.......
ChristmOs Day..........children sing.......impeeeeachOking......ohmy!...manOman........

studious.wishin'da'EB y EB2B feleeeeeez navidad!!!!!!!!

love y happiness ( Brother Al Greeeeeen )

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:22 - ID#119358)
@back to the topic'O'da'day......
I'm pretty damn sure that ROy OrbisOn ( three big O's ) was the 2nd messiah..veeeery leetle doubt, yes.....only da' lonely.....dumdumdum..dumdeedooowah....

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:24 - ID#186147)
window open everyday
tolerant1: I suggest you call your broker Monday morning and short as many contracts of SP9H as your margin allows. I shall wait for a dip to BUY. Its easy to wager on this thing.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:35 - ID#290172)
--re: Betting against the yen

( 1 ) January 1997
USD:JPY = 115.95
XAU:JPY = 42634.8
XEU:JPY = 145.527
SDR:JPY = 166.41

( 2 ) October 5, 1998
USD:JPY = 134.95
XAU:JPY = 40336.6
XEU:JPY = 162.574
SDR:JPY = 185.87

And, December 18, 1998
USD:JPY = 115.19
XAU:JPY = 33508.8
XEU:JPY = 136.396
SDR:JPY = 162.942

Methinks there be a message here[lil winkie]

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:36 - ID#317211)
Yet another Loathesome Performance Award to David Bonior, D-Michigan.
Bonior's ranting regarding partisanship and personal attacks in DC was
positively absurd.
How soon he has forgotten his own conduct towards Newt Gingrich for the
High Crime of taking money for teaching a class in US history.

John Disney
(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:42 - ID#24135)
the truth..the whole truth .. nothing but the ..
for EB ..
I gave you average costs not cash costs .. Average
Costs are real numbers .. cash costs are imaginary
numbers ....
I think Clinton once worked for a NA gold mining company
calculating cash costs .. they are accounting
figures .. Average costs have to tie in and be
consistant with your P/L statement .. If you want
200/oz cash cost .. fine .. you got it .. get a more
imaginative accountant .. and you can get 150 ..
problem comes when you have to explain to bank
that lent you lots of moolah exactly why you lose
money with gold at say 300 and costs at 150 ...
.. well now .. your accountant says something like
"that depends on what you mean by LOSE MONEY " ..
or he may say "We all know that CASH FLOW is the
name of the game" .. if you got a thing for TVX ..
buy it .. maybe you'll like it .. maybe PDG will
merge with it ..
.. In that case you can short PDG and buy TVX ..
how can you miss ??

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:44 - ID#348129)
@TWO out of FOUR approved ---- Clinton WILL be convicted
Clinton-Scandal-Fourth Washington

The House voted 285 to 148 to reject the article, with many Republicans voting against it.

The House earlier in the day approved the first article of impeachment, which said Clinton committed perjury in testimony before independent counsel Kenneth Starr's grand jury.

The issue goes to the Senate, where a trial will determine if Clinton should be removed from office. A two-thirds vote would be required to convict Clinton and remove him from office.

A second article of impeachment alleging Clinton lied in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case was rejected, but a third one alleging obstruction of justice in the Lewinsky case was approved. The Senate will therefore consider two charges against Clinton.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:45 - ID#20359)
Oldman, Namaste' gulp and a puff to bets on the big show have been placed for some
time now...good luck with yours...go lite on resignation not happening and Hillary in the White House...real lite...

John Disney
(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:48 - ID#24135)
got that right ..
Tantalus ..
Bonnier is completely disgusting ..
even that dopey goatee .. he is
phoney and rotten .. even in the
middle of his little propaganda
drivel about the politics of
"smear" .. he couldnt stifle a
little slam at "the likes of ken
starr "

(Sat Dec 19 1998 14:59 - ID#290172)
and then there's
In addition, one may want to consider that the most propitious purchases of gold are made in...SDR...

Further, that after supporting USG's profligacy [in strict accordance with IMF RULES, "from the surplus nation to the deficit
nation" [i.e., from Japan to US], the Interim Committee of the IMF, strongly PUSHED by the Moslem/Chinese/Oriental weightings on the committee, saw the WISDOM in accommodating Japan's repatriation, through a very private SDR window, of a portion of it's hoard of US treasuries. Or so rumor hath it...and it DOES 'compute'. Something to ponder, yes?

Gusto Oro
(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:04 - ID#377235)
House Vote...

There goes Bill Clinton's supporters few
They don't look happy. He sure is blue.
Hillary's baby--she won't back him
Goodbye legacy that might have been
Bye bye Bill
Bye bye hypocrite
Hello impeachment
I won't forget his lie
Bye bye Bill
Bye bye president
Hello precedent
I won't forget your lie
Bye bye Clinton goodbye
I'm through with Clinton I'm though with Gore
I'm through with countin' the votes some more
Now here's a reason I'm so free
Bill's resignation would give me glee

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:06 - ID#317211)
@John Disney: Long suffering conservatives-every dog has his day
Am looking forward to the howling of Hollywood liberals.

Coming to your living room TV screen soon.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:09 - ID#339274)
Clingon won't be convicted,the votes are not around to make it over
66.6 %,Gore nobody wants him to become an el Presidente either.
Market drops first and than becomes a buy with outrageous multiples.
Timing ?February/March,dito for gold.Greasepan will open the spigots and
everybody will love the Klingons after.
Wow,15000 here we come.Might as well ,year 2000 might make all paper become suspect.

THE Priest
(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:13 - ID#371242)
let all pray
for as this great country will soon fall

moment of silence

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:13 - ID#402236)
Sad day for America---The greatest President we ever had is going to be impeached.
And the poor guy is completely innocent of all charges. TRULY SAD.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:18 - ID#20359)
Yipee.!!!..Clintler impeached...ah what a day for America...
the air is returning to normal...Clintler is white trash and the garbage is being thrown long last...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:25 - ID#37463)
Some elation
I've resigned myself to the unlikelihood that the Senate will not convict but the impeachment at least gives me some solice that there are some around who are not willing to look the otherway when we have a president without morals, without convictions and without common decency. Clintons's legacy is lechery and he will be remembered for the lowlife low rent president and indecent human being which he is. The comments on this site amply show that what he has brouught to this country is divisiveness and turmoul. Partison politics? Yes indeed. For it is divided between those who are willing to look the other way and those who know that if we don't address the flowing strench imminating from Washington now the clean up job will be so much bigger down the road. Its too bad that Clinton doesn't have Livingston decency and love for the country and start packing his Y'all Haul.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:26 - ID#25257)
The Lovable Triad
Bonior, Gephart and Daschel are without a doubt the most disgusting examples of American Leftism to Mr. Weiner himself, ol' Barney Frank...Oh wait, then there's Conyers, part of the "Deprived-On-The-Take Elite/Minority Akin to THE REVEREND Jesse Jackson...not to be outdone by Mr. Rangel and his ilk. And the Liberals are Disgusted?

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:26 - ID#242325)
I don't think Clinton is as smart as you think. If he really had the smarts of a Nixon he would have chosen a dunderhead like Agnew as Vice President. Nixon's opponents were only able to force his resignation after Agnew had quit under the threat of criminal charges. Nobody will be quaking in their boots at the thought of President Gore.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:33 - ID#20359)
heh...heh...heh...oh so fitting...yup...uh huh...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:36 - ID#252150)
Bufford@Sorry to read about your losses@I got extremely lucky with BGO/AZS
but gave a lot back before I realized that the odds are really stacked against the small investor in au jrs, unless they are extremely nimble, short time traders.
Never, ever forget that the vast majority of people that run those jrs are sociopathic liars.
I feel that majors & funds are the only sensible way to buy au stocks. Of course, if you like the excitement by all means gamble with 5-10% of your portfolio, but never forget that you are gambling.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:38 - ID#258142)
POG - Bollinger bands chart
More then a week ago, on December 10, 20:10 to be precise, I have posted a message that Bollinger bands chart is giving a signal - POG is about to make a significant move and suggested to buy a straddle. This chart is giving a signal when bands are getting close. It does not tell the direction of the move to come. Now the message I have posted appeared to be correct.

I have updated the chart, it is attached below. Red circles on it show signals, happened during last two years. I also placed a "zoom-in" picture for last couple of days in the right upper corner of the image. The minimum distance between bands happened to be Dec 10th.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:42 - ID#254288)

The disenfranchised of K2 know you don't mean that.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:46 - ID#402183)
Political calculus

The shrewdest and most evil political operators of this century are to be found among Democrat leaders in the U.S. Congress. In a single action they will damage WJC ( for whom they have little genuine affection ) , terminate Al Gore's political ambitions, stand witness to the unraveling of the Republican party, and solidify their support of their own party faithful. Gephardt is the center of the web.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:46 - ID#402183)
Political calculus

The shrewdest and most evil political operators of this century are to be found among Democrat leaders in the U.S. Congress. In a single action they will damage WJC ( for whom they have little genuine affection ) , terminate Al Gore's political ambitions, stand witness to the unraveling of the Republican party, and solidify their support of their own party faithful. Gephardt is the center of the web.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:51 - ID#169332)
BGR Precious Metals stock, warrant offer
BGR Announces Normal Course Issuer Bid
Canadian Corporate News - December 17, 1998 17:03

TORONTO, ONTARIO--BGR Precious Metals Inc. announces its intentionto make a Normal Course Issuer Bid ( the "Bid" ) through the facilities of The Toronto Stock Exchange and The Montreal Exchangefor up to 341,985 Class A Shares, and up to 67,140 of its Class A Share Purchase Warrants representing 5 percent and 3 percent, respectively, of the "Public Float".There are 7,427,372 Class AShares and 2,520,000 Class A Share Purchase Warrants currently issued and outstanding. The Notice of Intention to make the Bid has been accepted by The Toronto Stock Exchange and The Montreal Exchange. The Bid will commence on December 21, 1998 and will terminate on the earlier of the date the purchases are completed
and December 20, 1999. All Class A Shares and Class A Share Purchase Warrants purchased under the bid will be cancelled.
BGR is making the Normal Course Issuer Bid because it is of the view that it may be advantageous to engage in repurchases of the Class A Shares, from time to time, when they are trading at priceswhich reflect a significant discount from the net asset value of the Class A
Shares. Purchases made under the Normal Course IssuerBid will have the immediate effect of reducing the net asset valueof BGR and of increasing the net asset value per Class A Share. The purchase of Class A Share Purchase Warrants will also enhance the long term net asset value
per share of BGR. There were no Class A Shares or Class A Share Purchase Warrants purchased under our previous Bid. BGR Precious Metals Inc. is a closed-end investment company which invests primarily in precious metals opportunities. Its Class A Shares and Class A Share Purchase Warrants trade on The Toronto Stock Exchange and The Montreal Exchange.
Rosanna Gatti Controller ( 416 ) 365-5129

(Sat Dec 19 1998 15:57 - ID#252150)
Old Gold@Great piece by Buchanan. If the avg American read it maybe
it would make them question all the propaganda/bs that they are bombarded with daily. Unfortunately the chances of the avg American reading that piece are nil to none. They are to engrossed in Jerry Springer or WFW.
IMO, the people who control the media and collude with the USG in manipualting the news are the real enemies of your Country.
I'm glad to see that Klinton will be assigned his rightfull place in history. The asterick in the history books will denote his repugnant Presidency.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:01 - ID#370236)
@Rumpled: The greatest president we ever had Impeached?????????????????

Not the 2nd greatest, but the greatest?

No wonder you're rumpled.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:16 - ID#254288)

Iraq oil exports -GulF Oil official.

When the Turks are requested to close the pipeline to their Port of Ceyhan and we blockade Iraqi oil shipments thru tha gulf, you can watch oil take a nice spurt. Only an outright depression will send it back to todays price.
That a US President gives into the Internationalists and risks US lives is reason enough for impeachment; I don't give a damn who he balled, given they gave their consent.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:21 - ID#252150)
Gore is the most wooden, pathetic, robotic speaker I have
ever seen or heard. Maybe that will be America's punishment for the genocide in Iraq: Four or more years of Al Bore in the White House.

Cage Rattler
(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:26 - ID#33182)
War and Scandal Guide !!!
CLINTON, Bill: President, long-suffering husband of Hillary. Accused of having an affair with White House intern Kenneth Starr and lying about it under oath, most famously in his finger-wagging statement: "I did not have sex with that intern ... or that one, or that one, or, um, hang on, no, or that one either. What's your name again?". Faces impeachment for breaking the economic embargo against Cuba, including illegal use of Cuban tobacco products in defiance of an Act of Congress. Legacy as president may be renewed national commitment to literary exactitude, after his famous policy statement: "It depends on what the meaning of 'is'is", and his revolutionary push for the redefinition of the word "alone".

LEWINSKY, Monica: Secratary of State. Unique diplomatic skills, once flashed her G-string at the Pope to convince the Pontiff to "let up, already!" on old-fashioned Catholic teachings on adultery. Known to get down on her knees in front of world leaders in her determination to get what she wants. Last ditch peace mission to Iraq failed when she called the Iraqi president a "big silly-billy". Rumoured to have nuclear devices concealed in her hair.

TRIPP, Linda: Iraqi president. Ruthless, deceitful dictator not trusted even by her own family, let alone her friends. Known to have inflicted devastating effective torture on her own countrymen and women using secret electronic device. Ugly as hell. Deserves to be bombed to smithereens.

HUSSEIN, Saddam: Special Prosecutor. Over-zealous, deeply religious, vengeful, unelected, unaccountable and very thick-skinned government official. Spends millions of dollars in public money on personal crusades while countrymen suffer. Impervious to criticism and laser-guided bombs, he may well be the last man standing.

STARR, Kenneth: former White House intern. Ferociously determined individual prepared to go to any and all lengths to get his man. Sexual obsessions masked by image of middle-class rectitude. Denies being promiscuous, but appears prepared to screw the whole country to get what he wants.

PUBLIC, Joe: Who the hell cares?

( c ) Joe McMahon

(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:36 - ID#242326)
James: Pat will be running for President in the year 2000, so a lot of people will hear his views. This is his web site:

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:37 - ID#428218)

Straighten yourself out !!!!!!!!!!

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:38 - ID#428218)
John Disney.....

I only asked for a couple of your views ?!!

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:39 - ID#428218)
John Disney.....

I only asked for a couple of your views ?!!

(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:42 - ID#252150)
No doubt about it--Klinton is an evil individual.
Years ago I actually kind of liked him & thought he was just a good old boy who likes to party. But when he bombed the pharmaceutical plant in Sudan, he showed beyond any doubt that he is nothing but a lying, devious
With his unconscionable oppresion of Iraq & this latest bombing, he joins maniacs like Hitler in the dustbin of hitory as one of the real monsters of the 20th century.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:46 - ID#411251)
@Greenstoned Gold--I'm trying man!!....bad snow storm!...ran outta medication 2 days ago!

Cage Rattler
(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:57 - ID#33182)
War and Scandal Guide
CLINTON, Bill: President, long-suffering husband of Hillary. Accused of having an affair with White House intern Kenneth Starr and lying about it under oath, most famously in his finger-wagging statement: "I did not have sex with that intern ... or that one, or that one, or, um, hang on, no, or that one either. What's your name again?". Faces impeachment for breaking the economic embargo against Cuba, including illegal use of Cuban tobacco products in defiance of an Act of Congress. Legacy as president may be renewed national commitment to literary exactitude, after his famous policy statement: "It depends on what the meaning of 'is'is", and his revolutionary push for the redefinition of the word "alone".

LEWINSKY, Monica: Secratary of State. Unique diplomatic skills, once flashed her G-string at the Pope to convince the Pontiff to "let up, already!" on old-fashioned Catholic teachings on adultery. Known to get down on her knees in front of world leaders in her determination to get what she wants. Last ditch peace mission to Iraq failed when she called the Iraqi president a "big silly-billy". Rumoured to have nuclear devices concealed in her hair.

TRIPP, Linda: Iraqi president. Ruthless, deceitful dictator not trusted even by her own family, let alone her friends. Known to have inflicted devastating effective torture on her own countrymen and women using secret electronic device. Ugly as hell. Deserves to be bombed to smithereens.

HUSSEIN, Saddam: Special Prosecutor. Over-zealous, deeply religious, vengeful, unelected, unaccountable and very thick-skinned government official. Spends millions of dollars in public money on personal crusades while countrymen suffer. Impervious to criticism and laser-guided bombs, he may well be the last man standing.

STARR, Kenneth: former White House intern. Ferociously determined individual prepared to go to any and all lengths to get his man. Sexual obsessions masked by image of middle-class rectitude. Denies being promiscuous, but appears prepared to screw the whole country to get what he wants.

PUBLIC, Joe: Who the hell cares?

( c ) Joe McMahon

(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:57 - ID#35757)
@Gusto Oro
You forgot 'sung to the tume of'.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:58 - ID#421269)

Dow 10000 before the end of year. Senate hearings will last less than 2 weeks. Hell to pay for to 250.... Americas payback will be coming soon...ignorance is bliss...many happy people...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 16:58 - ID#43352)
Clickity clack, still on track

(Sat Dec 19 1998 17:14 - ID#222231)
Cage Rattler

(Sat Dec 19 1998 17:16 - ID#252150)
What a coincidence@Now that he's impeached Desert Fox will be called off.
To call that shoddy operation "Desert Fox" is an insult to one of the greatest & most respected soldiers in WW2: Rommel, who was known as the desert fox. He was respected by the Allies for his great tactical skills in battle. He gave up his life honourably, when he was forced to commit suicied because he participated in the failed assasination attempt against Hitler.
He had more honour, dignity & bravery in his little finger than Clinton has in his whole bloated, worthless carcass.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 17:20 - ID#220325)
Oldman, Oleman at Si?? Two questions please
1/ are you the Oldman from days of yore approximately 2 years ago in the time when Glen was training to be a trader?

2/ are you the Oleman of the Si site also?

Both sources Oldman and Oleman supply good information but the style is completely different.

If you are either of these welcome. Has your email address changed?


(Sat Dec 19 1998 17:28 - ID#25257)
The Red Horse
Nay, I say War. Not Dow 10,000 but War in the Med by years end.

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 17:38 - ID#428218)

Snow storm ?????

See, that is what I's 35 deg C here, the sun is shining....

You have got to get your facts right !!!!



Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 17:41 - ID#428218)

It kinda strikes me that this whole mess.....Klingon, derivatives, war, dollar, markets, commodities ...... is, at this time, only the tip of the iceberg....

I believe that we aint see nothing yet !!!!

(Sat Dec 19 1998 17:49 - ID#391172)
Weapons of ass destruction
The british have trotted out an old jet plane as an example of a WOMD, they say it can be fitted out with tanks which could carry anthrrax and flown over blah lbah blah. In that case, evry person who has running water and some that don't are candidates for premptive military action, you could be cultivating anthrax you know.

Looney bin stuff, blithering nonsense, doen't surprise me tho, 1 billion people belive Mohammed was informed by God etc etc. Even more belive the son of the cosmos appeared on Earth for a few years, got himself scraficied etc etc what people belive goes on and on, whereever you go, it's always something else, doesn't it make anybody even wonder?

(Sat Dec 19 1998 18:22 - ID#339274)
Gold and platinum sitting on their support zones of 288 and 343.
Xau hit my target of 64.8.On the back of events in Washington ,expecting PMs to rise on Monday and retest in the morning of Tuesday if not we'll see an ugly breakdown of gold in the YEN.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 18:22 - ID#25257)
It is, after all, like a woman in the throes of childbirth...each contraction increasing in frequency. Stick around, things are getting pretty dicey.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 18:51 - ID#190411)
Cyclist, are you still there?
I bought some more goldstox yesterday for use as trading vehicles.
You like NEM for trading, and I have done well with it too, although I hold for longer periods. I went long at 23.00 and sold at 29.3125 the last runup. I learned to take a profit when it is given. I'm back in at 17.875.
EB was asking about TVX. I consider that another good trading stock, probably better than NEM. As you know, it zoomed from 1.125 at the August bottom to well over 3.00. EB dude might like it for the volatility.
You also comment on SGOLY from time to time. I got some more at 2.625. Now, I see that John Disney doesn't like it much, anymore. I realise that their last dividend was an anomaly; I expect more like the historical yield. I'm looking for this one, and Anglogold to weather the short term doldrums, and do well when gold goes in 1999 or 2XXX, whenever that might be.
All in all, the golf thing is a depressing yawn, only redeemed by the commentary here on Kitco.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 19:00 - ID#26793)
Trading revenues at U.S. banks falls 66% while derivative trades increase 16%

(Sat Dec 19 1998 19:06 - ID#26793)
U.S. banks suffer worst derivative losses ever

(Sat Dec 19 1998 19:14 - ID#26793)
Deflation causing labor strife with Australian coal miners

(Sat Dec 19 1998 19:19 - ID#26793)
ASEAN leaders to tackle money crisis

(Sat Dec 19 1998 19:29 - ID#190411)
Your XAU/POG ratio postings and explanations are the most valuable contribution, moneywise, that I have picked up on Kitco.
I realise that it is such a simple correlation, but it has been the best handle on NA goldshare prices that I can see.
When the ratio was .277 or thereabouts, I noted that it was time for real caution. I sold my position in NEM, and it has tanked since then.
Often the simplest tools are the best. -----Thanks again.
Perhaps you could repost an explication of your ratio for the benefit of the new lurkers.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 19:29 - ID#339274)
I got out of NEM 1 hour before closing as the trading started to
languish.The trading in NEM has been contracting and now makes barely
1 million a day.Where the bottom is depends where and when the surge of
volume comes to the upside if you think in trading for a longer term scenario.Monday opening feels to be on the upside,my hourly cyclical forecast is a low for Tuesday morning.Monday we might get an unsustaining spike upwards where we test Friday's close on Tuesday morning.TVX I used to trade in 93,haven't done since.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 19:42 - ID#339274)
ERLE SA stocks
I have for long term ( 1 year ) selected AU,SGOLY,ASA,HARMONY.
As you see the selection is based on their favorable dividend
payout.I don't like NA mines for their lousy payouts.I have
exited my last portion of senior NA Miners when I got slammed
by PDG.I hold only NA penny stocks ARZ,QTR,CLH,FSR,ASM among
the few.
In my closing I still hold my dog RANGY,value is coming about
in the price.In addition I like its situation in a low tech
environment that will be a plus in self generation of power
for the year 2000.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 19:44 - ID#26793)
The concept is simple enough. It prices the gold shares in ounces of gold rather than current dollars. This allows a more valid historical comparison which is not biased by inflation. To get the ratio just divide the XAU by spot. Over the lifetime of the XAU prices below .230 ounces eventually will produce a profit. The all time high is just below .390. No one has ever made a profit buying at that level. Low points are about .180 which has only been reached a couple of times since the start of the XAU on December 19, 1983.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 19:51 - ID#190411)
Donald's 19:06 link
The derivatives loss is passe news here, but the paragraphs in the story about the consumer debt loss will be repeated more and more as the deflationary scene hits Main Street in the US.
The unsustainable negative balance of payments, coupled with the massive debt load of the Joe6pak, and the wine and brie crowd, will pop this bubble. I'd hate to be a holder of shares in a bank that has enormous amounts in the consumer debt market.

lefty kiwi
(Sat Dec 19 1998 20:51 - ID#32176)
Aurator and Greenstone gold
More about sheep .......

There was that very old story about

Hori the ( Maori ) farmhand with the particularly comely wahine ( women )
Maori wife whom rather fascinated the Kiwi farmer ( Boss )

Well the Wahine gets herself pregnant and duly delivers a very light skinned baby .
Hori is a bit concerned about this and eventually decides to confront
thr farmer .

HORI" Boss I am a bit woorried about how my Wahine can have such a white baby when we are both the good Maori colour "

Farmer " Well Hori its like this ... you know when we put the Ram in with the ewes then when it come to Lambing time we get just a few Black lambs in the flock '

Hori " OK boss .....fair enough you forget about them Black lambs and I will forget about the white baby "

Go gold

(Sat Dec 19 1998 20:57 - ID#169332)
Swiss gold sales reporting in the media
Media coverage of proposed Swiss gold sales prompted a little contest on "another" forum. Posts through this weekend are considered for prizes, such as a gold coin. What the hell, consider it for educational reasons ( as I did ) :

Gold Disinformation

Disinformation, often timed to counter or obscure the public's understanding of the monetary role of gold has been a policy of our government and the Federal Reserve for many years. Any questioning of our fiat monetary system is not desired by them. The biased reporting in the
media originates here. They lobby in the same way that trade organizations, as the medical and military industrial complex do. Well researched reporting in the media is hard to find. It is actively discouraged and discredited, while a flood of information from academic and financial institutions supporting the "approved" policies is sseminated to the media. As drug companies support medical schools and scientific research; and lobby Federal agencies , so do interests
favoring fiat monetary policy support their cause. Media control is just one aspect of the war against gold.

Regarding the sophisticated campaign against "gold as money," the case of the American Institute for Economic Research is instructive. They were harassed and attacked by various government agencies and the founder, E C Harwood, virtually slandered in the media because of their splendid research and many publications concerning the role of gold and the fiat dollar. At one point, in the early 1970's, the IRS took control of the gold sovereign holdings of investors held abroad through an investment company, American Investment Counselors run by the principles of the American Institute for Economic Research ( AIC was not legally ffiliated,
for the AIER is a non-profit, educational institution ) . This was justified to protect investors from a possible scam. After a lengthy investigation, the charges were thrown out of court by Judge Gesell in NY, and the frozen sovereigns were distributed to their owners. There had been no scam and nothing disreputable done by AIC.

PH in LA
(Sat Dec 19 1998 21:08 - ID#225408)
Presidential Impeachment

Today the second impeachment of a sitting president of our great republic became part of history. Unfortunately, it will not be the last. Now, with today's events as precident, any president that finds himself in the minority party of the House of Representitives can expect impeachment on the flimsiest of excuses.

Let us consider: A president stands convicted of depriving a citizen of her constitutional rights. Rights that she declined to exercize for over 10 years after her supposed deprivation. Rights that were eventually determined to have been illusory and imaginary when her case was thrown out of court. A presidential infraction snared by a special prosecutor allowed by a lax and ill-conceived constitutional add-on to our system of laws to troll for evidence, even to the point of illegally taping conversations between lowlevel secretarial employees to be used as "evidence".

The pattern of fowl partisan politics which knows no limits can be expected to entangle future presidents. "No one is above the law", the mantra of the lowest-level intellects also means that no one can rely on the law for protection from stupidity. What's next? How about presidential impeachment for incorrect arithmetic in the balancing of the president's personal checkbook? What will be done about presidential parking tickets illegally allowed to go unpaid since before the president took office? How about presidential lies to the nation's children about the existence of Santa Claus? Where do we stop? Why not future lies? Surely impeachment would be a fitting way to deal with those, too.

At least we are afforded the consolation of high-level cowardly resignations by stone-throwers living in glass houses: Livingstone's ill-conceived pleading with the President to follow his tawdry example by resigning the trust placed in him by voters. Newt's pitiful resignation upon learning that a majority of the public is actually more fair-minded than he himself could ever lay claim to being. The same Newt who acknowledged committing perjury 13 times while being investigated and convicted of his own personal financial "irregularities". Or the non-resignation of a white-haired judicial committee chairman whose own marital infidelities were deemed to have occurred too long ago in the past to affect his own heavy-handed prosecution of the president's. More will certainly follow as Larry Flynt publishes another dozen identified hypocrites who participated in this shameful assault on our constitutional system.

My own departure from this forum will not be missed. I can no longer participate honestly with posters incapable of posting without using the word "dirtbag", even while their own stupid remarks have been posted hundreds of times in identical terms. Or with posters who honestly believe that the death of Kathleen Willey's cat "proves" beyond any doubt that the President had the cat killed in reprisal for remarks on 60 Minutes. Or with posters who believe implicently any sludge dredged up by Matt Drudge. I no longer wish to associate myself with a group of people who ran ANOTHER from these pages. In any case, discussion here ceased long ago. Like the so-called "debate" in congress on impeachment, which more accurately could be described as alternating soapbox performances by members who had long ago allowed their "leadership" to make up their small minds for them ( with generous partisan help from K. Starr ) , discussion at Kitco has long degenerated into weak-minded political posturing by intellectual midgets.

With these thoughts I bid you all farewell.

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 21:17 - ID#428218)
Ph in LA..........

I bid you farewell.

Perhaps, with you taking the high moral ground and basically infering all Kitco members "flakes", you could apply to become one of Klingon's speech writers............

We will miss you.......BUT, see ya later!



(Sat Dec 19 1998 21:21 - ID#37463)
It look like Clinton is now between Iraq and a hard place. I understand the police action is now referred to as Free Willy. Rumpled, get our your iron, man.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 21:31 - ID#37463)
PH in LA
Its interesting that liberals such as yourself seek to discredit the intelligence of those who disagree with you. I listened to the same debates and while I did not agree with the Democracts I did not challenge their intelligence except with regard to John Conyers ( the spelling may be wrong ) . Why is it always bipartisan politics when the Republicans don't fall into line with the Democrats. This is just payback for Robert Bork, a great mind who was denied admittance to the highest court. Maybe you should go to a more liberal forum. Good luck in your ventures.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 21:42 - ID#257351)

will be a s s a s i n a t e d.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 21:42 - ID#190411)
PH in LA
Cheer up. there is a bright side to all of this.
The Italians have laid the groundwork for those of us in north America.
They have jailed a herd of corrupt politicians in the past few years, and those in the northern provinces might secede.
I shed no tears for der Fuhrer Kaiser Willy. It's sort of fair play for the Speaker of the House, and his anointed succesor to go with il duce into the wilderness.--- Good riddance.
It is a vast pleasure to see the architects of this "fowl", as you put it, system get their comeuppance from the trash that Larry Flynt is.
I am not the idiot that you say, however. I do surmise that the dungflinging is a product of the FBI files that the Great Helmsman of Dow has been releasing to the newsies.
I miss Mr. Another also. He was a good read whether you thought him an imposter or not.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 21:42 - ID#251268)
PH in LA ,
hope you reconsider it takes more than one point of view to keep balance and to help one consider his or her views,unfortunatly for the Pres.the facts were ( are ) not freindly to his ( democrats ) cause,and facts are what got Him in to this mess,not polls ( of which I know NO ONE who was ever polled about any of this ) anyway hang out every thing is subject to change

(Sat Dec 19 1998 21:48 - ID#20359)
PH in LA, you utilized 571 words in your tawdry reprimand but then self love can be an
evil do not have the credentials to lay claim to the intellectual and legal high ground...of that I am certain...but in as much as it is safe to say the country is deeply divided I will sleep better knowing that with your residing on the west coast and me on the east coast our philosophies are as diametric as are our abodes...

Crystal Ball
(Sat Dec 19 1998 21:52 - ID#287367)
"See You in Hell, Cybersuckers !" -- Long Island Voice (Dec17-23)
People on Long Island were asked about how Y2K would affect them. The response of a musician, Busta Rhymes, who's from Uniondale, as quoted in Entertainment Weekly--- *What about this Y2K sh!t?* "It'll just destroy my career and everyone else's. Microphones, mixers, turntables, radios won't work, studios won't work, you on't be able to record sh!t. We'll have to rhyme in the streets, like some slave sh!t back in the day when they used to sing folk songs to get over their depressive times. The potential of it is so close it's unreal, yo."
*Any special plans to deal with it?* "I'm gonna store up some food, some land, some loot--in particular gold and silver, because it's probably gonna go back to some trade sh!t. I'm gonna be ready."

(Sat Dec 19 1998 21:55 - ID#190411)
PH, another thing
I am weary of the newsies here in the US telling us about the sensibilities of the Europeans. I truly hope that they are offended by the processes of a republic.
Weren't they the same guys that perpetuated regicide?
C DeGaulle was the last of the good european pols. Come back Jacques Reuff.
DeGaulle and his finance minister were the ones that precipitated the gold bull of the 1970's.
Now, France is another subjugated province in euroland.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:01 - ID#374235)
Oh Yeah? Details Please.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:04 - ID#255284)
............Up periscope.................
You asked me earlier "what is the difference between" a foid monzosyenite, and a foid monzodiorite ??"
I am no geologist, all I have is a dictionary, but I reckon I've got your meaning, amigo. Probably a tad salty last night. There's poetry in the language of geology, sure enough, not to mention a quick trip around the world, and for that I thank you.

First of all, I have no idea what a "foid" is. The foid is a void. But monzosyenite is light coloured, and the monzodiorite is dark.

The Syenite is so name after "Syene" now know as Asswan, a very ancient town on the River Nile and one of the cradles of civilisation. The Diorite is from the Greek: to distinguish; to tell apart.

They are both monzonites and therefore are essentially the same in composition. The Monzonite is named after Monzoni, the Tyrolean mountain where it was found.

So we have two essentially identical formations differing only in their colour: One light, the other dark. A bit like keys on a key board. Ebony & Ivory :-}

I'd be obliged if you'd tell us what a foid is. Might be able to use it sometime?

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:10 - ID#428218)

That was too easy............................ha,ha !!!!


(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:11 - ID#190411)
PHinLA does make a point.
WJC is under the scrutiny of a prosecutor with, essentially unlimited power.
Somewhat like us, the fodder that leviathan, anonymously, consumes daily.
On the subject of gold, I have nothing nice to say.
I do have one gold question. South African 2 Rand coins are the same weight and equivalent as British Sovereigns. Why does my dealer say that 2 Rands are a "stale" coin. Heck, they are less than 2% over spot, while sovereigns are more than 12% over, and, the sov's are probably newly minted in places unknown.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:21 - ID#365190)
interesting choice of words
the "extraordinary revision", that is. wonder what's cooking?

Monetary Fund
( IMF ) releases an
revision of world
economic growth
prospects, it's
second in two years.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:21 - ID#190411)
Your 22:04 is one of the nicer ways of redeeming sharp words that I have ever been privy to.
go golf ---- 296.6 by Wednesday, assuming that Goldman-Sachs is on their Winter Nap.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:22 - ID#190411)
I must go home and rewire my connection.

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:24 - ID#428218)
Aurator............a mere technicality.....

"foid", isan abbreviation for "feldspathoid",or more precisely "feldspathoid group" of minerals.

The "feldspathoid group" includes- canrinite, lazurite, leucite, nepheline, petalite and sodalite.

"Feldspars" and "Feldspathoids" are two separate mmineral groups, not to be confused.

Now, concerning the rocks - Diorites, Syenites, Adamellites, Monzonites, Granites, are all different.................more ?!

The baserock classification is conditionalon the quartz, alkali feldspars, plagioclase feldspars, feldspathoid, mafic mminerals a large extent.

All in becomes a wee bit confusing !!!!!

Maybe Klingon Clinton should have studied his rocks.....instead of getting them off !!!!!



(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:24 - ID#255284)
foid void
Grab your loupe, the mint mark on the St George /dragon sovereigns is usually found on the base below the right rear hoof of the horse, and on the shield type sov, is usually found below the shield. Dunno what he meant by "stale" though

Now, how's about that foid?

Aren't there forums somewhere were Merkan politics are discussed? Seems every place you go on the net these days argues along Republican/Democrat divisions, sure does polarize.

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:27 - ID#428218)

Where art thou !!!!!!

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:29 - ID#428218)

"Aren't there forums somewhere were Merkan politics are discussed? Seems every place you go on the net these days argues along Republican/Democrat divisions, sure does polarize."

...aye, it's an especially hard life if you are a ..SCOTTISH NATIONALIST

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:31 - ID#255284)
I'm listenin'
but aint both diorite and syenite igneaous rocks containing Feldspar? does the foid mean they don't contain feldspar?

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:34 - ID#428218)

Aye, BUT.........

The baserock classification is conditionalon the quartz, alkali feldspars, plagioclase feldspars, feldspathoid, mafic mminerals a large extent.

It's the proportion of a given mineral group, and the combination of minerals that gives a rock its generic name.....

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:35 - ID#190411)
"Stale", means a coin class that has little following. There is a huge following on sov's, yet, almost none on Union of South Africa issues.
Have you seen one? Are they an attractive coin?
His words were to the effect, "If you were to buy fifty or a hundred ounces worth of the 2 Rands, they would become an unsalable lot, except at discount."
So are all of the other bullion coins.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:35 - ID#255284)
Wait a minute! Igneaous rock, are we talking a blue/grey coloration boundary that I seem to recall reading about, one that prospectors look for as indicating possible deposits of golf?

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:38 - ID#402236)
Better than a valium--Nytol....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:43 - ID#428218)


plagioclase feldspar, 90 to 65%
alkali feldspar, 10 to 35%
quartz, 0 to 20%
mafic minerals less than 10%


plagioclase feldspar, 10 to 35%
alkali feldpsar, 90 to 65%
quartz, 0 to 20%
mafic minerals less than 10%

NOW, and Anorthosite on the other hand.........................

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:46 - ID#402236)
One last thing. Seriously. I for one am really discouraged at golds performance this past week.
Just look at what's been happening around the world. AND THE POG

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:46 - ID#428218)
aurator..........deposits of golf....................

have got nothing to do with the Colour Index of Minerals.......they have an associated "green" colour.....

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:48 - ID#317193)
Buckler's Commentary....
So few words yet so profound...well, I was impressed. Go to:

Went gold...go is cold in golf until February in AZ. Brrrrrr! Happy holidays folk...give someone a smile...even yourself.


(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:48 - ID#169332)
Welcome back to Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition?
Diversity of views and experience, evident on Kitco, are beneficial. Who has got it right on everything all the time? We learn by keeping open to questioning what we think we know, just as we often have to fail to learn how to succeed. When people start always agreeing with you...well, wasn't it Groucho who said he wouldn't want to belong to a club that wanted him to join it?

Anyway, there is much helpful information shared on gold and matters related to it regularly here.

Now for something completely different...

I think most politicians nowadays ( where are the statesmen? ) who don't do what their keepers want or miss the mark in carrying out orders are taken out one way or another. I wonder if this impeachment business is just partisan politics, and more serious matters are being covered up, which might threaten confidence in the government and bring shame on many officials, of both parties. I don't know. That said, I wish the President had resigned long before now. My guess is he will before long. And I may never know why.

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:48 - ID#428218)

GOLD is controlled by a CARTEL.....the gold price is BEYOND the control of the markets.

If you understand that, have a good nights sleep !

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:50 - ID#255284)
S Africa Krands..
Interesting how we found out last night from kiwi that the RAF issued gold Krands and not Sovs because Krands are politically acceptable in Iraq in the event of a bailout.
I have avoided Krands here in NZ for the same reason. Although I don't mind where the gold comes from {gold is good in my world} I know it would be harder to exchange Krands than sovs. S Africa has had such an odious reputation that, unfortunately the old adage "aurum non olet" doesn't apply to Krands in this part of the world. It is changing, but it will take a while for the perception to wear off.

The greatest unrest in NZ in My lifetime occured during the Springbock tour of 198? Many demonstrations got ugly, the pro/anti tour factions broke up families, and, to this day, some folk will not discuss the tour.

I've never seen a 2 Rand, but I have a picture in front of me. A Springbok {?} on the reverse and on the obverse is the rather cynical legend {these were issued during the Apartheid era} "Unity is Strength" and "Eendrag Maak Mag" which I guess means the same thing?

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:51 - ID#227238)
Howls of disappointment come in many forms and leave no register untouched. In the main, protestation in support of a lost cause is generally a personal affair and finds its expression in very personal terms, regardless of spectral positioning. .... All except for that of the western liberal, that is.

No one and nothing on this ignominious ball is quite the equal of a liberal, when outfitted in his unique, and liberally universal, display of moral outrage. His life's set has no room for a sense of honor or a belief that those who oppose him may do so out of true sense of what is "right and proper". Because of this defect, he has no respect for opposing points of view and cannot countenance any who would frustrate his wishes.

Thus, in the course of a dispute, his anger is never bounded by any regard for the rights, beliefs and sensitivities of those with whom he finds disfavor. By definition, any who would dispute his lofty position are little more than denizens of a dung heap and not deserving of niceties he would naturally extend to his own kind...... ie, those who routinely agree with him.

Given this, we should not be surprised at the depth and singular ferocity with which our liberal bretheren inveigh against their unrepentant conservative opponents. If respect for others, even opponents, is not a natural part of one's personal code, villification is the only avenue available.

So far, 2 Repug's have found themselves short the moral scale and resigned their respective positions. ...... I believe it will be a very long time before we see any Dem's falling on their sword as a mark of personal contrition.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 22:51 - ID#339274)
Thomas Paine excerpt
January 1776 in the introduction of the title "common sense" :
-The cause of America is in great measure the cause of mankind.
Many circumstances hath and will arise which are not local but
universal,and through which the principals of all Lovers of
Mankind are affected,and in the Event of which,their Affections
are interested.
The laying a Country desolate with Fire and Sword,declaring War
against the natural rights of all Mankind,and extirpating the
Defenders thereof from the Face of the Earth,is the Concern of every
Man to whom Nature hath given the Power of feeling;of which Class,regardless of Party Censure.

Guess ,when the well is dry,we will know the worth of water.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 23:00 - ID#247428)
GO GO GO GO :- ) sorry folks I could not help it I just felt like putting a little fire into this group. We have some things to cheer about. Here we are with Willie about to get the boot. For a long time we here in this forum have been waiting for gold to rise. Many have said that Willie and his friends like AG and RR have been keeping the lid on the POG. We all know that the markets love Willie. Well now we are going to have some type of problem in the Markets with Willie gone :- ) .

With all this said and done..I just hope that Gold goes up in price come next week. I hope to see an explosive move in Gold, Otherwise my minining shares are going to take a further beating :- (

Kind Regards

Greenstone Gold
(Sat Dec 19 1998 23:03 - ID#428218)
PCM........perhaps this is Klingons PROBLEM

Greenspan: Still Going for the Gold
by Judy Shelton
May 15, 1997

If patience is a virtue, Alan Greenspan is a saint. For more than three decades he has endeavored to guide the nation toward sound money -- first as a radical intellectual, then as an business economist and presidential adviser, and currently as chairman of Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System. His critics on the left seem unable to comprehend the destructive consequences of irresponsible fiscal policy and accommodative monetary policy. His critics on the right simply cannot appreciate the long-term perspective of Greenspan, a man who argued powerfully in the 1960s that "gold and economic freedom are inseparable" and who has steadfastly, albeit slowly, continued to pursue the realization of his intellectual ideals in the economic sphere.
Arbitrary and capricious, he is not.

The benefits of a balanced budget

Instead of taking potshots at Greenspan reinforcing the claims of those who maliciously accuse him of waging a war against workers, advocates of sound money should be working with the Fed chairman toward the ultimate goal of price stability and restoration of a gold-based monetary system. It ain't gonna happen overnight; that is the fundamental lesson to be drawn from Greenspan's languorous pace. But with the achievement of a balanced budget agreement, we are making real progress.

Balancing the budget is a moral imperative because it means the government cannot indulge in excessive spending and then abuse its sovereign monetary authority by financing chronic deficits with increasing levels of federal debt -- a practice that results in inflation. Supply-siders who minimize the importance of a balanced budget do not show proper respect for the teachings of economist Ludwig von Mises, who observed: Inflation is a policy. And a policy can be changed. Therefore, there is no reason to give in to inflation. If one regards inflation as an evil, then one has to stop inflating. One has to
balance the budget of the government. Of course, public opinion must support this; the intellectuals must help the people to understand. Given the support of public opinion, it is certainly possible for the people's elected representatives to abandon the policy of inflation.

Greenspan: A closet Keynesian?

So the people's elected representatives have finally resolved to abandon the policy of inflation and phase out the budget deficit. Politicians on both sides are displeased with the compromise agreement forged earlier this month, but that is the nature of the process; it's messy but it's democracy. And as Washington journalist Bob Woodward chronicled in The Agenda, it's also the culmination of a personal campaign by Greenspan to convince government officials of all stripes that when they fund excess
budget expenditures through the crafty means of government borrowing -- rather than the more straightforward approach of raising taxes -- they undermine not only the integrity of the nation's currency, but democracy itself. "Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the 'hidden' confiscation of wealth," Greenspan stated in The Objectivist
some 30 years ago, noting: "Gold stands in the way of this insidious process."

His reasoning remains valid on both counts. If, under democratic capitalism, people freely choose to redistribute national income for purposes of social equity, defense, education or other communal objectives -- so be it. The necessary tax revenues should be collected and allocated accordingly. What is unacceptable is for Washington officials to shirk from demonstrating the political courage necessary to defend their spending decisions and instead obtain funds by issuing government bonds that eventually swell the money supply with unwarranted credit. No less a liberal luminary than economist John Maynard Keynes, in his Tract on Monetary Reform, recognized the folly of deficit financing: It is common to speak as though, when a Government pays its way by inflation, the people of the country avoid taxation. We have seen that this is not so. What is raised by printing notes is just as much taken from the public as is a beer-duty or an income-tax. What a Government spends the public pay for. There is no such thing as an uncovered deficit.

The golden years?

Now that we are approaching that point where monetary policy can be isolated from fiscal policy, it is time to move purposefully toward the final objective of sound money based on gold convertibility. In a 1981 op-ed article entitled "Can the U.S. Return to a Gold Standard?", published in The Wall Street Journal, Greenspan wrote that the prerequisite for successfully restoring a gold standard was "for the U.S. to create a fiscal and monetary environment which in effect makes the dollar as good as gold, i.e., stabilizes the general price level and by inference the dollar price of gold bullion itself." Once such financial stability was achieved, he explained, returning to a gold standard
would provide a vital safeguard against future budgetary malfeasance:

... ( T ) he discipline of the gold standard would surely reinforce anti-inflation policies, and make it far more difficult to resume financial profligacy. The redemption of dollars for gold in response to excess federal government-induced credit creation would be a strong
political signal.

Sound money advocates should take heart these days and realize that Greenspan is following a game plan laid out long ago. Now is not the time to break faith with the man who has done so much to usher in the financial and political conditions that will permit us to make the dollar as good as gold -- on a permanent basis.

Judy Shelton, an economist, is the author of 'Money Meltdown: Restoring Order to the Global Currency System' ( Free Press, 1994 ) .


(Sat Dec 19 1998 23:04 - ID#190411)
When one is as cynical about Americans as you are, wouldn't you say that the "Unity is Strength" motto would appeal to the gold-guns-grub crew that are impeaching our fearless leader?
'Twas the socialist white guys unions in SA that set up "apartheid". -Mostly Poms as I recall.
Haggis, there are a goodly lot of people that cheer Scottish Independence. I saw some of it on TV ( the debates ) , here in the US.
... The Scots just want to keep the best looking women for themselves.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 23:11 - ID#227238)
Bill Buckler:
If you're lurking about:

I must heartily endorse TYoung's enthusiasm ( below ) for your latest commentary at "The Privateer". It is nothing short of superb. Stirring. A must read.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 23:18 - ID#255284)
I leave it to others better versed in S African history to comment on your statements, but I do have to admit to a morsel of cynicism towards US foreign policy. Then again, I'm not the only one.

It's always a good idea to think of the facts that are being ignored. And, there's more in this attack on Iraq than is readily apparent, and more that has not yet been discussed.

G & P to ya, buddy....

(Sat Dec 19 1998 23:28 - ID#20359)
aurator, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...American foreign policy...I'm American and
I do not see ANY foreign policy...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 23:31 - ID#391172)
PH in LA
Wrong, you will be missed. You always come straight to the point, and you always make your point, and courteously too.

This forum like all other places of expression comes and goes, right now it's not at it's best but it will come around. The hatred for Clinton seems unmitigated, and the high postures of the paragons of virtue is humerous. Just words on a screen, not real, like cussing into the dark at what you don't like.

You must admit PH you have had a lot of good times here and it's grabbed you from time to time eh? Just lay off for awhile then come back when you feel better and you know you will. Whatever..happy sailing, and if times get tough remember SE Alaska, a good place for boatmen.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 23:31 - ID#20359)
and I second what Earl said (gulp and a puff to ya Earl) about Bill Buckler and The
Privateer...consistently and constantly one of the top commentaries on the Internet...yup...uh huh...gulp and a puff to Bill and everyone who puts out The Privateer...

(Sat Dec 19 1998 23:33 - ID#190411)
On a lesser note; Have you ever been around US "Liberals" when they are out on the town?
The behavior that they exhibit toward the working people that attend to their wants, and needs, conjures revulsion.
While the youngsters fill their glasses, and the older ones take their dinner order, the superior set never fails to denigrate the honest work of the people that support the "lifestyle" that they have become accustomed to.
They are the idle rich. -The same that they were taught to prey upon during their frivolous college days.
The type is deathly afraid to live where I do. I have a reasonable accomodation with my neighbors, and we watch for each other's interests. The "Liberal", is afraid of the gommint program peeples that he professes love for.
I have never seen nor heard of anything resembling the disdain and contempt that "Liberals" feel toward the denizens of the farming families around here, and, elsewhere.
How many times have you seen a movie that has a farm scene without an overt or covert appeal to the superiority of the city-dweller?
I am being incoherent, and must get to my city dwelling.

(Sat Dec 19 1998 23:34 - ID#57290)
The dear departed, sigh, PH in LA
ANYONE who approves of WJC is a fool at best. For that matter, so is anyone who believes that the republicrats are ANY better than the democans. There are not two parties in america - the dems and reps are the same corrupted slime that feed on power and money. The new american royalty on capital hill have destroyed this nation with feable and weak consent of the citizen slaves. A Constitutional Republic and a responsible and independant citizenry are the foundation of this country, not the self-absorbed and pusilanimous sheeple that call themselves citizens today. The largest and first democracy ( mob rule by definition and experience ) to fall this century was Hitlers' Germany. We are only footsteps away from that as we speak. Good Night

(Sat Dec 19 1998 23:59 - ID#277224)
Re. Privareers Gold
If a sharp rise in thr price of gold is supposedly such a threat
to the fundamental financial system does it not follow that "they"
will use all the kings horses and all the CB's men to control it?
If we have to wait for a total collapse of the monetary system or
a return to the gold standard before gold rises then maybe we should
look for something else that is shiny.It is not particularly likely
that such extreems are going to take place.In short,I cannot be impressed
with the article or this line of thinking as events are likely to
unfold in a more moderate scenario.