Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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John Disney
(Tue Dec 22 1998 00:01 - ID#24135)
These guys are good ..
Signs Finally Emerge of Coup Threat to Saddam Hussein

On December 20, Iraqi President Saddam Hussein declared that Iraq
had emerged "victorious" after Operation Desert Fox, the 70-hour
aerial bombardment of Iraq by the United States and the United
Kingdom. In a speech broadcast on Qatar's Al-Jazira satellite
television, Saddam praised Arab people for their "support of Iraq
in the face of aggression" but attacked "the weak, the two-faced,
the grudge bearers and the traitors." Saddam has survived the
latest round of U.S. led military attacks, aimed ostensibly at
his weapons of mass destruction. However, those attacks
apparently had a secondary goal -- supporting a coup attempt
launched from within Iraq. Judging from Saddam's statement and
other evidence from within Iraq, the second goal may be bearing

Fears of a coup have prompted a large number of purges in Iraq
since the end of the 1991 Gulf War. The commanders of military
units have been liquidated many times, with units reorganized for
fear that they may rise up against him. Prior to Desert Fox, the
Iraqi military experienced another purge -- one strikingly
different for its extent and the accompanying directives. The
Iraqi armed forces are composed of five regular army corps, five
"regular" Republican Guard divisions, and one "special"
Republican Guard division. Before Operation Desert Fox, the
regular army corps were deployed along Iraq's borders. This has
not changed. In northern Iraq, the 1st and 5th corps are
stationed around the cities of Krkuk and Mosul in order to
protect against Turkish incursions and to guard the oilfields of
this area from the depredations of Kurdish militias. The 3rd and
4th corps were deployed in southern Iraq along the Kuwaiti and
Iranian borders, respectively, to guard these oil rich areas from
Shiite opposition groups in south-central Iraq. The 2nd corps is
stationed directly to the east of Baghdad to protect the eastern
flank from Iranian incursions directed against Iraq or against
Iranian opposition groups based inside Iraq.

Shadowing these army corps were divisions of Iraq's elite
"regular" Republican Guard divisions. Since they are the best-
paid and best-equipped divisions, the Republican Guard divisions
reinforced the regular army corps in case of attack. But they
also served to monitor any corps commander that evidenced even
the slightest inclination to march on Baghdad. This is why the
Republican Guard divisions were always physically stationed
between the regular army units and Baghdad. In this way, the
regular Republican Guard keeps an eye on any over-zealous
commander. One or two of these regular Republican Guard
divisions were always kept around the Shiite areas of Najaf and
Karbala, for fear of an Iranian-backed Shiite uprising.

The "special" Republican Guard division was stationed in Baghdad
proper and operated as a fail-safe mechanism by providing a final
line of defense against a coup led by a commander of a regular
Republican Guard division. It also was the key unit that ran the
concealment operation for Iraq's weapon's of mass destruction
( WMD ) operations. Because of the role of the special Republican
Guard, it was the most likely one to have been directly targeted
by U.S./British strikes.

Immediately in advance of the commencement of Desert Fox, Saddam
Hussein issued a number of directives altering this structure.
The commanders of the regular army corps were placed under
regional commanders who were recruited from among Saddam's
closest aides. And units of the regular Republican Guard were
all redeployed to Baghdad and to southern Iraq.

The first directive dealt with the command of regular army and
naval forces. It stated that "until further notice, four
regional commands shall be established." The first command, the
Northern Command, is responsible for the northern half of Iraq
and includes the 1st and 5th corps. The Northern Command was
given to Staff General Izzat Ibrahim, the second in command in
Iraq, and the person that was allegedly the target of an
assassination attempt last month. The second, the Southern
Command, was placed under, a new commander, Staff General Ali-
Hasan al-Majid. The Southern Command controls the area closest
to the Iranian and Kuwait borders and has direct control of the
Iraqi 3rd and 4th corps and the small Iraqi navy.

The third is the Central Euphrates command. This command
included the Shiite districts of south central Iraq and came
under the command of Muhammad Hamzah al-Zubayadi, an individual
who is not a military figure but a member of the Baath party.
The are no units attached to his command. The reasons for this
are clear, as there are no regular army units regularly stationed
in that area. However, at present, two Republican Guard
divisions are reportedly in the vicinity and under the direct
command of Saddam's son, Quasay Hussein.

The last, and perhaps the most important command for the security
of the regime, is the Central Region command. This one controls
Baghdad and the surrounding region. It falls under the direct
command of the Iraqi Minister of Defense, Staff General Sultan
Hashim Ahmad, with the remaining Iraqi 2nd Corps under his

Though none of the regular army units are being physically moved
around Iraq, the fact that they are now reassigned under the
direct command of the highest-ranking members of the Baath party
in Iraq is significant. This means that Saddam has virtually
lost faith in all of his other commanders. More evidence of this
fact lies in the next set of directives. They state that, "the
duties of commanding a region shall be to defend within the
boundaries of the geographical area... to confront any foreign
aggressors that target Iraq's sovereignty, its independence, and
security and to preserve internal security..." Additionally, the
last few directives state that these commanders should receive
instructions only from Saddam himself through his special
security service, the Fadaiyin, and that Saddam himself will
remain in direct control of all air force, army aircraft, and all
air defense units.

What these directives suggest is that not only may no regular
army unit be moved without the approval of Saddam himself, but
also they may not take any action without Saddam's approval.
This means that even though Saddam has placed his most trusted
aides in charge of these units, he has put in place an
institutional mechanism, the security service, to control them as
well. Finally, by keeping control over the airforce, he has
established yet another fail-safe mechanism, this one to thwart
Iraqi tanks rolling on Baghdad.

There may be other reasons why Saddam is running scared. The
"Al-Zaman" newspaper in London reported, on December 18, that
Saddam Hussein along with his two sons, and the Minister of
Defense have been hiding in a bunker in the Karakh district of
Baghdad since the initial warnings of an air strike were
confirmed. The next day, "Al Zaman" reported that armed members
of the Baath party were being deployed throughout Baghdad and
other major Iraqi cities to confront any "unrest or emergencies
that might arise." Also, since the strikes took out virtually
all of Iraq's major communications facilities, the Iraqi armed
forces have been forced to operate via massagers and mobile radio

Why all the paranoia? There is evidence that the Iraqi
opposition has begun to respond positively to increasing U.S.
efforts aimed at toppling Saddam. A rebellion may have already
begun. On December 19, the same day that the 70-hour aerial
bombardment of Iraq came to a halt, the London based "Al-Sharq
al-Awsat" newspaper reported that armed civilians in southern
Iraq were engaged in an uprising against Iraq's special security
forces. The newspapers stated that an armed group tried to seize
a radio and television station around Salihiya but were repulsed
after a three-hour confrontation with Republican Guard forces.
The newspaper also spoke of armed clashes around Hibibah and
Thawrah districts located southwest of Baghdad. Other reports
tell of night-time sabotage of power plants and other
infrastructure targets in the south.

In an interview with "al-Sharq al-Awsat", also on December 19,
Hamid al-Bayyati, the representative of the Supreme Council for
the Islamic revolution in Iraq ( SCIRI ) reported that he had
received information that Iraq is making changes to its forces in
order to protect regime from a popular uprising. SCIRI is one of
the most powerful opposition groups in Iraq and is made up of
pro-Iranian Shiites from the southern Iraqi districts. Bayyati
reported that, in order to quell any popular uprising in southern
Iraq, Republican Guard forces have been withdrawn from Mosul in
northern Iraq and deployed to Baghdad. He mentioned as well that
another Republican Guard division took up positions on the main
road between Baghdad and Basra.

This gives further credence to the fact that Saddam is worried
about a rebellion or invasion in the south. Additionally, the
Republican Guard division that moved south from Mosul likely took
the place of the special Republican Guard division that guarded
Baghdad and appears to have been targeted by the air strikes.
This would mean that not only are there are no elite Iraqi forces
to check either Turkish incursions into northern Iraq or Kurdish
dissident groups, but Saddam is now leaving the 1st and 5th corps
without Republican Guard watchdogs. By moving yet another
Republican Guard division to the south of Baghdad, this one from
the border with Iran, Saddam leaves the 2nd corps unchecked and
the Iranian border without elite reinforcements. Redeploying
troops to maximize internal security has undermined the logic of
Iraq's national security. With Iraq's communication
infrastructure bombed out and the Republican Guard pulled back to
Baghdad, Saddam has opened a window of opportunity for any
dissident officers in the 1st, 2nd, and 5th corps.

Essentially, Iraqi is left with its elite units stationed around
Baghdad and southern Iraq. While the idea of a land invasion of
Iraq aimed at removing Saddam has been broached in the U.S.
before, this is obviously not an option considering the political
climate in Washington. Bombing in advance of impeachment
hearings is one thing, but an invasion is another altogether.
However, another possibility, a Shiite uprising, may not be too
far off. After all, in the same December 19 report, Bayyati also
mentioned that Iraqi forces were already shelling Shiites in the
Amarah and Najaf administrative districts in southern Iraq.

There was also a report in "Al Hayat" on December 17 that Ali Aqa
Mohammadi, the Iranian security official in charge of Iraqi
affairs, was actively pursuing contacts with Iraqi opposition
groups and may have also met with officials from the British
government to discuss the situation. "Al- Hayat" cited a source
as saying that Mohammadi wanted to ascertain what role the Iraqi
opposition, more specifically, the Iranianbacked SCIRI, would
play in any efforts to topple Saddam. The source also quoted him
as saying, "if the Americans are serious about removing Saddam,
then Tehran would not object" and that Iran "is watching the
situation in Iraq with interest and will adopt a more effective
policy now that it has decided to support the change." However,
it must be noted that the U.S. would not welcome an Iraq in which
Iranian interests were dominant, nor do the Iranians want a post-
insurrection Iraq dominated by the United States. During the
recent talks between Iranian Vice President Hasan Habibi, Syrian
officials and Iraqi opposition figures in Damascus, Habibie
explicitly warned against the dangers of a U.S. effort to topple

To sum up the situation, air strikes, no matter how intense,
cannot topple Saddam in the absence of an on-the-ground invasion
or an armed insurrection. However, it seems that the air strikes
may have sufficiently degraded Saddam's power, particularly his
communications infrastructure and his special Republican Guard
unit, such that the SCIRI has been enticed to act on its own.
There is a small window of opportunity for the Iraqi opposition.
Saddam appears to be off balance. With Iranian and U.S. backing,
the opposition may have a chance to strike. Yet the U.S. and
Iran are still only allied in their opposition to Saddam, and
remain at odds over what comes next. The Iraqi opposition
remains divided, and has failed previously to pose a credible
threat to Saddam. Unless someone moves quickly, Saddam will soon
reestablish his footing.

John Disney
(Tue Dec 22 1998 00:08 - ID#24135)
a nasty twist of fate ...
To all ..
If there is a coup in Iraq, amd Saddam goes down ..
well then those two noble and manly leaders Nanny
state Blair and "Blisters" Clinton will go down in
history as the heros that took him out without the
loss of a single man.
Wouldnt that be bloody awful ..

(Tue Dec 22 1998 00:14 - ID#386245)
RB@Serenity Prayer and EJ@Zeuss
I am going to let you guys share the bill for my gizzard operation, as I have just split it.

I am not very religious, in fact I might be called sacrilegious.

We have been invited out occasionally to very religious people's houses for dinner. On occasion they have made the big mistake of asking me to say grace. I am going to share with you my dinner grace:

Good bread
Good meat
Good God
Let's eat!!

I never seem to get invited back for some reason I cannot fathom.
Why is anyone surprised that the POG is going down. The right shoulder of the Head and Shoulders Bottom is not yet finished forming. If we get below the head, then off to your bunkers. Otherwise, we have a nice base being formed that will add huge strength to the coming gold bull.

Now did I ever tell you about the time my wife to be took me to her church and...

John Disney
(Tue Dec 22 1998 00:18 - ID#24135)
Armies in Iraq ..
Moving armies around in the middle east is problematic.
As I recall, the last Iraqi King ( Hussein?? ) never
moved his various army groups THROUGH Baghdad and kept
then in the various corners of the country.
Then for some reason .. he took a chance and switched
armies around .. letting one travel through the capital.
.. and that was the end of the King.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 00:34 - ID#280110)
Censure of President not Constitional yet Democrats claim that Pres was unfairly
treated. In other words the Republicans were criticized for not doing something prohibited by the Constitution and the polls jumped 10 points for this unfairness. Only 3 more jumps like that and everyone in the country will support him according to these polls. A letter from Jude Wanniski dated Dec. 21 98 on the Drudge Report site explains that once the House decides that the President has committed a crime, it absolutely must refer it to the Senate for adjudication. The House cannot both accuse and adjudicate. Under this approach taken by the Democrats who have acknowledged that a crime was committed as demonstrated by their proposal to censure the President, the Senate would have no choice but to convict the President and remove him from office since the President's lawyers never seriously contested the facts. I would think that the American People would be getting tired of these effort to attack the finders of fact and derail the process. A recent Gallup Poll on the Michael Reagan site indicated that 90% of the people who read the Starr Report favored impeachment.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 00:47 - ID#401460)

There is no way 3 out 4 people in the US support Clinton in this criminal matter.

People are only supportive of the job they think he has done - the great economy. Which has nothing to do with whether they think he is guilty or not. It is the stupid press that keeps equating job approval with whether people think he is guilty and should be thrown out.

It is so sad to see the American Free Press used this way.


(Tue Dec 22 1998 00:51 - ID#343259)
Gee... Asia not red but Japan down under 13,800
At 12:51AM  13,737.66

Change -415.29 ( -2.93% )

Low for the year was 12,787.90

(Tue Dec 22 1998 00:53 - ID#401460)
Nikkei 225

China also having problems tonight .


(Tue Dec 22 1998 00:56 - ID#411198)
John Disney, Nick@C
John Disney
I copied this comment from ( ?someone here? ) last week
Carries the ring of truth, or so it seems.
WANT TO GET RID OF SADDAM!!!! That's right. They WANT him in power in

The reasoning is rather circumspect. Better to have an enemy that can be called upon
1 ) Save political carcasses when necessary
2 ) Justify arms deployment in the Middle east
3 ) Act as general bogeyman for domestic purposes ( defense budgets etc. ) .

Nazi movies are getting a bit tiresome, after all.

There is also an unwritten rule among the world's leaders. You are not allowed to
assassinate other heads of state under any circumstances. They may just come for you
next. Klinton certainly doesn't want Iraqi hit squads roaming the US looking for an

Saddam would have been gone long ago if it were not for all of the above. Ghadafi
and various other leaders also would have bitten the dust by now.

Saddam is good value. Enemies of his stature are hard to find!! If there were no
Saddam, Hollywood and the D.O.D. would have to create one."

Nick@C...... I know that dinner blessing..must label it the "100th Monkey Blessing."
For it's traveled far and wide and therefore universal by now.
Night.. Nick.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 00:57 - ID#343259)
High Rise
Ahem. Is it "Great minds think alike", or "Great minds rarely differ" ?

Re: Japan Post.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 01:04 - ID#401460)

You got it, "great minds".

The US Markets will be interesting today. Did you see the long bond yesterday?


(Tue Dec 22 1998 01:19 - ID#411198)
Turn in rates
Tokyo Nikkei Average Down Three
Pct On Selling Of Bank Shares After
Bond Yield Spike
Yeilds rising... News coming...... oh boy!!

Who Cares?
(Tue Dec 22 1998 01:22 - ID#189232)
John Law Bubble
It's a pretty wild show, all right.

Be of good cheer, Kitcoites. We're witnessing REAL history. We're
seeing delusional crowds unparalleled in history, market manipulation,
corruption, utter misleading denial of the "upper class", etc.

We just watched Barbara Walters on David Letterman. It's amazing
to watch the denial. Marie Antoinette all over again. Watch
and see. Heads will ROLL when it blows.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 01:24 - ID#267298)
According to your own numbers, Japan @ 13,737
low for the year @ 12,787 one ( NASDAQ ) could interpret
this as GREAT news, it's approximately 1,000 points higher
than it's low.

These NA markets have ignored everythnig, War, Impeachment,
Japan, SE Asia, Russia, Latin America, you name it, it is ignored,
these markets are in bubble mode. Even if they retreat somewhat
tomorrow, they will regain those losses quickly. They are simply
not ready to "POP" yet, but watch closely in 99.

Go Gold..............................

(Tue Dec 22 1998 01:39 - ID#343259)
HighRise DBog
Yeah, it will be interesting all right. Silverbaron *told* me to keep an eye on the Long Bond. I forgot.

I'll be away from here for one week. I assume that things will be pretty much as they were when I return. I mean, if war, impeachment, and all the other stuff that you and others have pointed to haven't moved POG, then it ain't gonna move until it fits the purpose of those magicians who keep it where it is.

I once dabbled in magic, tame stuff, card tricks, simple feints, simple illusions. When I am confronted with a trick that "can't be done". It is usually transparent upon close observation by a trained magician, as being done THE ONLY WAY POSSIBLE. I am not sufficiently skilled in examining the "magic" of the POG handlers, but, the seeming manipulation will be transparent to those who really know the levers. Or at least I think so.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 01:51 - ID#258273)
You are wise. Your wisdom and that of others here has kept me largely out of juniors and pennys. My primary holdings are SWC, ABX, ALTA, and SIL. These comprise 85% of my PM holdings, all purchased on dips. I have 15% in RSA and juniors. I am clinging to a profit for the year.

There will be a day to roll these over into juniors, then pennys. I can see the eyes, but not yet the whites....

(Tue Dec 22 1998 01:52 - ID#401460)
Shoppers Buying Gifts for PetsPets

Other specialty items available at George include a circular, hemp sleeping bag ( $200 ) ,
scratch-baked whole grain dog biscuits ( no preservatives, salt or sugar, $13 ) , and a
fleece-lined corduroy dog jacket ( $54-$100 depending on size ) . The jacket is
embroidered with the phrase ``Every dog has its day.''

The store also stocks $9 dog yarmulkes for the Hanukkah holiday hound.

No Gold mentioned?


(Tue Dec 22 1998 01:57 - ID#267298)
I am not suggesting ANYTHING in respect to the POG,
in 1999, 2000 or anytime thereafter. What I am suggesting
is that NA stock markets are in a "BUBBLE MODE", people
IMHO are paying ridiculously high prices for stocks at the
present time. I honestly believe that these markets are going
to drop anywhere between 10 and 50 percent within the next
twelve months. I may well be wrong but I am very simply
stating my opinion.

I wish you and every other person, personaly, the very best
in your investment decisions and the upcoming Holiday
Season and New Year. Hope we all do well in 99.

Go Gold.................

(Tue Dec 22 1998 02:03 - ID#401460)
Clinton Hardball


A mystery woman who was set to appear for the first time on television this week to reveal fresh stories about "Clinton corruption" has been hit with an intimidation campaign, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned!

Former Arkansas state auditor [1981 to 1995], Julia Hughes Jones, was scheduled to appear on CNBC's HARDBALL with Chris Matthews on Tuesday. Jones, according to an insider, was going to use the HARDBALL appearance to tell stories that have not yet publicly been told about Gov. Bill Clinton and his Arkansas associates -- stories that Julie Hughes Jones is preparing to detail in an explosive tell-all book.

But sometime over the weekend, two files from Julia Hughes Jones' computer were mysteriously corrupted.

Files that contained information she was going to fax to HARDBALL producers!

"Someone over the weekend broke into her computer and destroyed a memo of talking points that she had typed up to Chris Matthews and his producers, ahead of her appearance," a source close to Jones revealed late Monday night.

Jones, who now lives in Florida, had just returned from Little Rock where she attend her father's funeral when she noticed the corrupted files that had contained notes of names and events she wanted to bring up on HARDBALL.

There may also be evidence that her computer was used to print out documents while she was
out of town.

Ms. Jones is said to be the ultimate Arkansas insider. "Clinton doesn't know what she knows,
but he knows that she knows a great deal," claims an associate who has seen an early
manuscript of her book.

"She was friends with Charlie Trie for 12 years. She even went to China with him once. She
knows many untold stories about Hillary Clinton."

But on Monday, HARDBALL mysteriously called-off her appearance. She has apparently been rescheduled for early 1999, a show source confirmed.


(Tue Dec 22 1998 02:13 - ID#401460)

Dick Morris on the Clinton polls.

Good Night All


(Tue Dec 22 1998 02:18 - ID#233199)
@JohnDisney Re: Your 00:01
Was that a Strafor piece?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 02:25 - ID#258273)
Great Site. Have forwarded to several of my friends. Founders of Amazon. Should get an interesting reaction since they are funding my internet start up. Doubt that it will disuade them in the least.

Seems that even the "establishment" is getting nervous about the bubble and trying to let the air out a bit. No one is listening, which confirms the bubble. Do not underestimate how far this could go. It is, indeed, of Biblical proportions.

Planting tulips with OPM ( other peoples money ) and buying Gold.

John Disney
(Tue Dec 22 1998 02:25 - ID#24135)
larry king
To all ..
the polls that show the 20 % bias for wjc are USA
today and CNN. Many CNN viewers seem to believe what
larry king tells them to ( without him ever saying it
directly ) .. the baldwin things points to a celebrity
clic containing Streisand, Goldberg among others.
sometimes I feel that larry king has an agenda ..
would you buy a used car from Larry ???

Saw Carville last night .. what a piece of work ..
I thought I was nasty ..

John Disney
(Tue Dec 22 1998 02:28 - ID#24135)
Yes it was
swp1 ..

(Tue Dec 22 1998 02:29 - ID#386245)
G'nite RB
I must also claim responsibility for the "US doesn't want to get rid of Saddam" quote. One Saddam is worth several billion defence bucks. Who are they going to use for an enemy if they get rid of Saddam???

(Tue Dec 22 1998 02:32 - ID#258273)
Many have fallen in this battle. The remnants will pick up the flag. We are fighting for freedom and salvation, not wealth.

God bless you.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 02:38 - ID#258273)
Rather dramatic penetration of the 14,000 level.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 02:52 - ID#255284)
The enemies of my enemies.........
Well, if you remember Auric's post about our new ambassador, it sounds like merka might attack noo seal und.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 02:54 - ID#253418)
South African golds continue downtrend
Breaking through double bottom at 900^JGAI&d=1ym

(Tue Dec 22 1998 03:04 - ID#386245)
Noo Sealand is a direct threat to the interests of the mighty warrior nation. You better polish up those jade tomahawks ( name??? ) the Maoris use. You don't let them park their 'hot' vessels there and so are not acting subservient enough. Now get on your knees and thank Uncle Sam for the shield he offers you.

Noo Sealanders need kowtow practice!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 03:37 - ID#253418)
Palladium up $11 at $320
I'll check later but I think the only commodity in an uptrend and up on the year is Palladium./ One of a small universe of predious metal stocks up on the year is PD and PT producer Stillwater ( SWC ) - splits 3 for 2 today, if I'm not mistaken, if I am its 1/4/99.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 03:58 - ID#153110)
@Millenium Quiz
What is scheduled for December 31, 1999 ? Not Biblical. Not computer related.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 03:58 - ID#386245)
RSA golds
getting NEAR good buying range again.^jgai&d=b

(Tue Dec 22 1998 03:59 - ID#258195)
Monday's Gold and Silver Lease Rates
For Monday 21st Dec calculated from data published in Today's FT.
Period------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month

Mean GoldLR------3.91---------------3.89-------------3.67-----------------3.40
Gold Lease Rate---1.65---------------1.36-------------1.39-----------------1.60
( Change ) ------ ( + 0.27 ) ------- ( + 0.02 ) ------- ( + 0.02 ) ----------- ( + 0.03 )

Silver Lend Rate----4.00--------------3.25-------------2.35-----------------2.00
Silver Lease Rate---1.56--------------2.00--------------2.71-----------------3.00
( Change ) --------- ( + 0.25 ) -------- ( + 0.05 ) --------- ( 0.00 ) ------------ ( + 0.05 )
$LIBOR = BBA London rate fixed at 11am
Mean Gold Lending Rates and Silver Lending Rates are supplied to the FT by NM Rothschild
Lease Rate = $LIBOR minus Lending Rate .
( Change ) = change in lease rates since previous day

For comparison with $LIBOR, the FT rates for US Dollar CD's ( mid rates ) are as follows:
Period------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month
US$ CD's-----------4.90-------------4.77---------------4.76---------------4.72
( Change ) ----- ( 0.00 ) -------- ( 0.00 ) --------- ( 0.00 ) ------------ ( 0.00 )

(Tue Dec 22 1998 04:03 - ID#255284)
golden kiwiana
those tomahawks are called mere. Pronounced mare-ray. Sharp polished greenstone ( aka jade, aka Pounamu ) stone tomahawks that will cleave your head in two.

As I'm sure you know, Cleave is one of those interesting Ingrish words, like inflammable, that has two meanings, opposite each other. How can anyone learn Ingrish? Cleave means both to stick together and to split apart. Of course, there's nothing particularly healing about a greenstone mere across occipital lobe.

As to Kow Tow practice. The "Yellow Peril Panic" of the early years of this century coloured NZ'ers attitude to China in WWI. Archibald Baxter, the father of one of our greatest poets, James K Baxter was a conscientious objector. During one session of 'heavy' interrogation by the police he was asked, "What will you do when the Chinese invade New Zealand, then?"
"I'll move to Christchurch," he replied.
"Why move to Christchurch, his tormentors enquired?"
"If I'm going to pull a rikshaw, I'd live in New Zealand's flattest city."

(Tue Dec 22 1998 04:04 - ID#253418)
The only bullish trends:
Coffee, Lumber and Palladium

I'd say that about says it

South African's headed for the dirt....

(Tue Dec 22 1998 04:04 - ID#153110)
@EweZeelund's Armaments
The reason EweZeelund is supplied with second rate armaments is the Privy Council in London won't approve anything else for shipment.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 04:29 - ID#386245)
Did I ever tell you about the time...

I Did??

Well I'm going to tell you again!!

I was in Madang, Papua New Guinea ( 1974/75 ) . A New Zealand ship came to visit for a little R & R and general pissup session. The Maoris on board gave a dance performance for the assembled populace. You know the one--where they make a mock attack on the audience ( enemy ) with tongues, weapons and tatoos flashing everywhere!!!

Well the first three rows of the audience disappeared over the rows behind them. General calamity and uproar!!! People got squashed, kids trampled and pandemonium supreme. It took half an hour to settle the audience down again. I would NOT want to be involved in hand to hand combat with Maoris.
We tend to forget what our forefathers went through to defend the liberties we are now pissing away with our corrupt, amoral and self-indulgent politicians. The me-too generation is going to wake up one morning saying 'more, please sir.'

(Tue Dec 22 1998 04:29 - ID#255284)
Sheep. The House of Lords....La plus a change, la plus c'est le mme chose... Merry Christmas
Ewe Zealand!
Wonderful! Thanks mo. But the Privy council has nothing to do with the legislature in EZ. I know there is a good argument, that, as the court of last resort, the Privy Council are lawmakers. That's common-law makers, but when one looks at the kinds of cases for which leave is granted by the Court of Appeal of New Zealand, to appeal to the Privy Council is very restricted. There are few constitutional issues that get that far. The Privy Council of the House of Lords has shown great reluctance trying to interpret any other NZ law. Basically, they haven' t a clue.

Have a Happy Winter Solstice, for those that celebrate this happy holiday.

I'm not much up on armaments, but I think we just bought a bunch of second hand F16s from merka. Beats me why anyone would want to buy second hand weapons. I mean, If daddy auratorbucks was a munitions maker, I'd make damned sure that any guns I sold were able to be spiked.

Mo. and ALL my internet friends....

'me' and the girls have been practicing our, ahhem, "gymnastics" all year to bring you this special message. We wish you all a Merry Christmas. Click on the yella thingee.......


(Tue Dec 22 1998 04:54 - ID#153110)
Very impressive. But, shouldn't somebody in the scene be holding up a candlestick ?

Happy Days to ya' from occupied country.

BTW privy has a meaning in our language which you apparently did not recognize in my comment.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 04:56 - ID#386245)
Tired of winter?? Christmas in Oz
May all of you, wherever you may be, have a happy Christmas.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 05:02 - ID#255285)
Haka--tattoos---Gastronomy--and a sublte segue into gold
This is a true story. The Maori Batallion performed a haka on the top of the trenches as they were preparing to go into battle against German troops in WWI.

Many were half naked; many were tattooed. All were ready to kill. The Germans the their mud-filled trenches deserted. They ran in fear the first time the Maoris performed a haka.

I shall try to find current photos of full facial tattoos ( moko ) that we see ubiquitously 'n ewe slanned.

Fortunately, the European is reputed not to taste very nice.

Um, and the maoris never noticed the gold here either...

Cage Rattler
(Tue Dec 22 1998 05:06 - ID#33182)
These have been rescaled from 0 to 100. Trading and polling on the futures price is directly related to political outcome.

High 66.22, which occurred in the year 1868, was also the last trade prior to this weekend. Low 51.04, which is what the third House article established.

From government figures, the bid is 52.53 ( first article ) while the offer seems to be 55.00 ( partisan number ) .

For technicians, the resistance level is 66.67. Above that level the situation becomes a big blow-out. Rules dicate settlement at 100.00 if resignation occurs.

The support level is 49.50, for anything below that could terminate the removal process.

Official trading starts on January 6, 1999 on the Senate floor. However, off-the-floor trading is expected prior to that date. The public is already engaged: bid 31.00 ( should hold trial ) , and offer 40.00 ( disagree that impeachment alone is sufficient punishment ) .

STRATEGY: writing the 67.00 calls seems a reasonable way to take in premiums, given that over 67% of those polled believe the President can handle his job and remain effective. The Republican group will observe current levels and conclude that they will not want their trading efforts eroded to a mere acquital. Thus there is incentive to drive prices below support for both bulls and bears, provided that the censure+fine option can be knocked-in for the bulls. The existence of such a censure option may depend on whether the terms included immunity from prosecution later. The trader that would benefit the most wears a badge marked BJ, that would be Bill Jefferson.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 05:10 - ID#255285)
Downunder we call it the dunnie or the loo, the crapper or the long-drop
I 'confess' I had not noticed the deft allusion to Privy in your post. One of my formative library tomes was "The Specialist." I do not recall the author, I borrowed and returned a first edition, a paper back is in libris@auramontana.

Gotta build your Privy on the far side of the woodpile so's every time someone uses it in winter you can get stocked up on wood, and, if it's occupied, why, you can pick up an armload of wood, return to the house and advise all those gathered that "I thought I needed more wood."

There's a lot of wisdom needed in building a good Privy. ( council )

(Tue Dec 22 1998 05:14 - ID#185448)
Had a bearish attack re POG yesterday. This is usually a good sign, expect a move up short-term.

morn to APG ( antipodean phone-gang )

BTW have you guys ever been 403ed ?
403 Access
( Execute
Denied -
This Virtual
does not
objects to be
executed. )

I mean - even to be 403ed by Bart is sort of an honour.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 05:16 - ID#255285)
The ceremony you witnessed was a Puriri ( that may not be correctly spelt ) A challenge.

It can be very intimidating. But then again. At the Waitangi Day celebrations, some years ago, a tattoed maori dropped his dacks and gave the queen a brown-eye.

Got into te papers, eh.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 05:26 - ID#255285)
The are 404's in Paris that have travelled over a million mile....
Phunny you should say that Phredd, I got 403's before kitco midnight when I followed a link
on wierd catholicism and got this 403
Access Forbidden
( Read Access Denied - This
Virtual Directory does not allow
objects to be read. )

Now. Many of us will remember Victor Brge's inflationary language. You know "Wonderful" becomes "Twoderful" and "I went to the beach," becomes "I went three the beach,"

This 403, is just bloddy typical of deflation, Fred, this is ANOTHER indicator. When F* fell out of his pram, he was 404'ed. But, we can only manage a 403 as punishment.

Now, to conclude. Either the error messages are being deflated in value OR
the entire Internet is a plot by Peugeot to take over the world.


(Tue Dec 22 1998 05:30 - ID#185448)
That christmas in australia-thingie was a real kick in the a++.
I mean - we are actually dressed up like escimoes ( ever seen a thermo-string-tanga? awful! ) , fighting lack-of-light-induced-winter-depression-syndrome, and then you show up in T-shirts. This is not fair. Not at all.

aura dOr
With Europeans its like with Carps - You have to water them to bring that muddy taste out of them. Roast them only shortly, then boil them and dont forget to add some red wine to the fond. And - never eat their feet!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 05:34 - ID#386245)
G'day Fred
The APG is suffering from GDB ( gold depression blues ) so has been discussing things Aotearoan. Must be getting near the bottom when the discussion of gold is avoided. Then again, I think I've said something similar several times in the past two years. In $A anyway, gold is still well off its bottom, almost up to the navel. Nothing to do with gold going up ( it hasn't ) . $A has just gone down faster than gold. The two are connected, however. The more the $A tanks, the more the Aussie producers sell to lock in survival prices. A strong $A would be very good for gold, and vice versa.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 05:41 - ID#255285)
Has it ever snowed in Austin?
We've just had 27 centigrade today. And about 75% humidity. We even had electricity.

Bought some shorts today. Made in China, US$5.00 . That's why our own rag-trade {clothing industry} is in tatters. {to pun outrageously}

It's a-coming. meltdown things.

"Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the party"

(Tue Dec 22 1998 05:52 - ID#255285)
"Never eat their feet."
You slay me. {because it's krsmis, you also 'sleigh' me )

You are so right about boiling te European slowly {the maori call us 'Pakeha", which has several different meanings, including, 'long pig' ) and the best way to do that is with some Puha, which is a cress-like native. boil Puha and Pakeha long enough, and it don't taste too {or three} bad, bro.

There is even a novelty song "Puha and Pakeha" that was popular in the 60's.

So it's barbecues and flatulance, just like every other year.


(Tue Dec 22 1998 05:54 - ID#185448)
Bought some boots the other day, they were made in Canada, as I was fed up with that snow in my shoes - think they dont have any deflation over there. Actually we dont have snow, but its scheduled for before christmas. But I had to unice my car last week with a heavy steel-scraper that was originally meant for a floor-tiler. Its not the snow itself that makes me sick, its the SHITS-effect ( Dog-Sh**-Hidden-In-the-Snow ) . There are squillions of dogs here in Vienna and they all seem to digest like Dinosaurs. So when there is snow, their endproducts are stored and preserved like in a deep-freezer. Now imagine some weeks with temperatures below zero and dogs adding their share to that mess on a daily basis - and then imagine - out of a sudden - higher temperatures melting the snow away.

You never read about that in a tourist-guide.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:03 - ID#255285)
I once outlined a play taking place in one house. Everyone arrived carrying their shoes and apologising for "treading in something" outside.

I just heard there are half a million cats in Auckland. Usually, there are about one million human beans counted in Auckland. So the average is one half a cat per householed. {intentional spello ) I dunno how many dogs there are. Did I tell ya the maori used to eat dogs? topic, unless.....

The dogs had golden fur.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:07 - ID#386245)
New manager appointed to the Viennese Headquarters. Much better returns than investing in Philharmonics ( or any other gold coins/shares for that matter ) . Get in on the ground floor as this will be a booming franchise. Contact Fred@Vienna for details on mining gold from the streets of Vienna.

Auckland franchise still available. North American franchise available soon.

Don't step on it -- MINE IT!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:09 - ID#185448)

Puha and Pakeha - were they boilt together?

As a matter of fact, in my longwish, the expressions for "to boil" as well as "to roast" also mean "contacting women".

Cats have one advantage: At least they even try to bury *gold* in the ground. But sure they also add to the misery.

Please add this to my 404-account, its on topic and its from Kaplan

Being generally bullish on the outlook for the price of gold, Ashanti Goldfields ( ASL ) announced Monday that it had closed out 732,000 ounces of
forward sales and put option contracts entered into in 1997, realizing a profit of $56.1 million in U.S. dollars.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:11 - ID#399147)
Fred @ Vienna
Gruss Gott from Garmisch!! We have the Sh**s effect here in Garmisch too! Everyone is supposed to pick up their own dog doo but hardly anyone does. Tschuuss!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:11 - ID#411440)
@ all: LEASE RATES indicate by a quarter point rise in
one month lease rates for BOTH GOLD AND SILVER that both pms
are going to get hit big time by short selling today and tomorrow.
I will predict a 3 or 4 dollar fall in gold and a 15 to 20 cent
decline in silver. If you think I'm kidding, just remember last
Friday. This is the same leasing scenario, except now silver is joining
the party.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:12 - ID#386245)
I feel sorry for you guys/gals up there
just having a cup of coffee and reading the last few posts. We, at least, are anethetized.

Gold MUST be near the bottom.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:13 - ID#386245)
includes tongues AND fingers.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:17 - ID#185448)
Retired Soldier
Gr Gott - noticed you still have an ingrish keyboard. - EU filed a law-suit against austria, as our govnmnt refuses to collect VAT on Gold - is there also an application against germany?
BTW Even dogovercrowded Gamisch and Vienna together will never have the scent of Brussels ( no doublemeaning, it really smells ugly! )

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:19 - ID#255285)
If you live in an occupied country: May you cast off your shackles and be free of your oppressors.
However, if my imprecation were to have an effect, I'd end up in a pot with some puha.

call me stu.

Yeah. Call me, stu.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:26 - ID#432148)
Aurator, your sheep made my day
Such a grin I have not had for a long time. Thanks. And may gold be unyou. ;- )

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:27 - ID#255285)
darn it. I was going to bed when I saw:
As a matter of fact, in my longwish, the expressions for "to boil" as well
as "to roast" also mean "contacting women".

I do have to ask you what you mean by, ahhhemmm, 'contacting women' Does this mean that English Roast Beef is a Sex aid?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:31 - ID#185448)
Dont be so severe. This is my last graveyard-shift before Xmas, in fact before 1999. Maybe Duisenberg has a surprise for all of us on Dec 31st, and we well meet again at a POG around 400 ( St. Tropez is lovely in spring ) . Maybe this is the bottom. But the topics fit well with Bill and Monica, weapons, the-end-is-near-predictions or Tony Blair, declaring war infront of a Christmas tree.

Bart has a big Zoo. And he knows that.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:35 - ID#432148)
Nick@C - the shield you refer to is hollow
Wm. J. Clinton and the congress of the US have decimated the shield and I base this on over 40 years association since enlisting June 8, 1943. NZ does not have to worry about the ships, there soon will be none.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:36 - ID#185448)

Will ask my local butcher. ;- )

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:39 - ID#43349)
A small? event
or the initial crack in the dam

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:50 - ID#255285)
Thermal underwear.
THis talk of dogs and cold climate reminded mois of this post
Date: Tue Dec 15 1998 21:52
aurator ( arf arf ) ID#251181:
Heard on the radio
A chain of American Department Stores is returning a shipment of "fur-lined" parkas
back to China. It turns out that the "fur" is not "cayote" but rather of the domestic
It has been suggested that the stores missed a golden opportunity to re-label the
parkas as "Barkers"
Anyone else see the irony? The word "parka" is Innuit.

parka and pakeha?

Someone telling us something? If you'd only pray and believe in the holy {and holey ) parka of the Ludd, the world would be a better place.

I believe that the holy {holey} underpants of the Ludd would save this great nation, if'n only the sinners beleeeeeeeeeeved in it.

thud. ( to an Handelian "alley-oo-la-la" chorus}

thunder/lightening/ prancer/dancer

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:55 - ID#26793)
Recent yen printing takes its toll on Japanese Govt. bonds; long rates rising

(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:56 - ID#255285)
Goldbug23 Yr 06:23
I will tell my darlings that the months of gymnastic practice paid off. I'm the one at top left. {I'm the one with the egocentric "me" on my shirt.} It's actually quite a good portrait

Cage Rattler
(Tue Dec 22 1998 06:57 - ID#33184)
Gollum - what was that crack? (link broken)

(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:00 - ID#333127)
IMHO this gradual orderly decay of xau will end with a sharp drop to between 58 -60. Abx and nem had been looking good with a series of higher lows but but but.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:03 - ID#26793)
Hong Kong gold lower on fund selling

Mike Sheller
(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:04 - ID#348257)
"What's this world coming to?" Department
While it is highly unlikely that ANY Kitcoite would be caught dead in a movie theatre, and certainly not sticking a finger into a public telephone coin return slot, the following post from the "Astro Mind" website may serve as a general warning for us all.


An incident occurred when a friend's co-worker went to sit in
a chair and something was poking her. She then got up and
found that it was a needle with a little note at the end. It said,
"Welcome to the real world, you're, "HIV POSITIVE". Doctors
tested the needle and it was HIV POSITIVE.

One of the safest way is NOT sticking your hands between
the seats, but at least, move the seat part way up and down a
few times and REALLY LOOK!!!!! Most of us just plop down
into the seats.....

The following information was E-Mailed to all employees of
the Metro Police Department this morning, 11/3/98. Pay
Telephones Drug users are now taking their used needles
and putting them into the coin return slots in public
telephones. People are putting their fingers into recover
coins or just to check if anyone left change. They are getting
stuck by these needles and infected with hepatitis, HIV and
other diseases. This message is posted to make everyone
aware of this danger. Be aware! The change isn't worth it!
This information came straight from phone company
workers, through the EMT instructor.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:11 - ID#399147)
Fred In Vienna
No news yet on VAT for Gold, but if they do I am only 15 KM from an Austrian Bank. Have to have engrish keyboard I still work for the gummint.I should have a chance to check out Brussels soon expect some training in Chivres, will pass through Brussels on Train. Have you noticed the odor in Bavaria ? ( Cow sh** all over the place and they still use honey wagons for fertilizer dontcha know! Bavaria is ripe even in the Winter!!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:11 - ID#26793)
U.S.-Euro "Banana War" on verge of escalating into all out trade war

(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:15 - ID#399147)
Mike Sheller
This is no joke, we had a security alert in Europe about the telephone AND ALL other vending machines!!!! Reminds me of Viet Nam and the razor blad in the Mouth and "Other places" it will teach one to watch where they put thier fingers ( and other appendages ) . A Sorry state!

Mike Sheller
(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:18 - ID#348257)
which brings me to wonder...
if Y2K will have any impact on the drug trade ( illegal variety ) ? Are international heroin and cocaine operations so sophisticated that computer chips are an integral part of their functioning? Will the Y2K problem crash the entire drug supply network, causing panic in the streets, Needle Park, and every friendly neighborhood shooting gallery? Will needles themselves disappear, or be in short supply ( making it a bit safer to put one's finger in a phone coin return slot ) ?
In all probability, the international illegal drug trade is the first and only industry to have taken care of this problem.

AP -Dec 18, Bogota - "At a clandestine press conference for "Grey Market Technocracts" in Medellin, Colombia, the podium was shared today by Salvatore Bulicante and Emilio DeReiia Sanchez, two of the worlds most influential illegal substance distributors. Underworld attendees were assured that the world's finest technological minds had been successful in solving the so-called "Y2K" problem ( el problemo Y-dos-K ) and that informational models were being made available to all satellite organizations that were still behind in their solution for the bug.
"We are very much aware of how important technology is in the distribution and sales phase of our business, and are happy to report that there will be no disturbances in our operations on or after January 1, 2000," Mr. Sanchez remarked. "

Mike Sheller
(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:19 - ID#348257)
...yes...those "other" places.

Sin Loi, GI!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:19 - ID#26793)
London morning gold and PM news

(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:22 - ID#399147)
One had to be "BOO COO DINKY DOW" to mess around in those other places, I dated Army Nurses!! Much safer and BETTER LOOKING!!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:28 - ID#222231)
Well, it's been over one year and:
just as I predicted back then that gold was controlled and manipulated and would go nowhere, many on this forum are in self denial ( including myself ) as to why and constantly predicting any day now.

The same factors for golds demise are still in a motion; namely large reserves of gold held and used by CBs for leasing and sales, forward sales by major producers and multinational cooperation between and by banks and governments. Until something comes along to upset this paradigm, gold will languish and continue to disappoint us all.

These forces that are determined to foist a one world currency and government upon us all, ANOTHER SELF DENIAL, are in control and it will not be stopped, save by the grace of GOD, or GOD saves those that help themselves.

When we begin to lose our sovereignty, self identity ( those with self pride and heredity such as Haggis, the Jews, downunders, Italians, Arabs and others from every segment of this planet ) and there is a MacDonalds on every corner of this earth, we will know that their victory over us will be complete.

We are fools that fight each other through NWO design, instead of realizing who the real enemy is. We are all brothers of this world and people of GOD. Until we understand what we are up against and band together and stop hating or disliking each other we will get what we so deservedly merit; enslavement.

I thank GOD that there are those such as Kitcoites, independent free thinkers, that will fight to the end for freedom, self expression and honesty in all things. Do not despair, every dog has its day.

To end on a happier note, I bid everyone a happy holiday and best wishes for the coming year.

Bono Natale,


(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:46 - ID#284255)
Y2K Will Arrive Ahead of Schedule

USDA sees threat to food supply

USDA - Y2k Action Plan

(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:48 - ID#424140)
@Cage Rattler
Try this one:

(Tue Dec 22 1998 07:55 - ID#424140)
Doesn't look good for whatever is left of the Yen carry trade

(Tue Dec 22 1998 08:08 - ID#424140)
Oil may be cheap, but it's getting harder to find petrol

(Tue Dec 22 1998 08:10 - ID#424140)
More on the PPT (Pork Protection Team)

(Tue Dec 22 1998 08:14 - ID#224363)
Not exactly a stunning finish to 1998...
Well folks, I wish I could say that 1998 ended with a bang but at least a far as PMs go, I would have to say it is ending with a whine and whimper.

We shall see what 1999 brings us but I'm not holding out for any miracles. In fact I am really temped to move to a 75%-80% cash position around May/June and wait out the remainder of the 1999.

On a related but un-related note, I know we've all been Y2K'd to death but here is a interesting note. A large percentage of my colleagues in the technology business are mumbling about selling out their equities and preparing for the worst even they though all admit that they don't think anything major will happen. The interesting thing about this is that I recently read an article in a newspaper where one of the experts said that 'his real fear was that the 5% of the population who could help fix the problem would bail-out making the impact of Y2K even worse.'

In any case, Best Wishes and Happy Holidays to everyone here. A special thank you to Bart and Kitco for this site. You have all provided me with great insight into the interesting world of PMs ( unfortunately not enough to get rich !!! )

All my best !!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 08:25 - ID#153110)
@imprecation @Computers
The part of an oath that calls upon God to punish the perjuror.

If we had any sense, we'd kill all the computers.

Cage Rattler
(Tue Dec 22 1998 08:31 - ID#33184)
Rangold almost 11% lower today on JSE

Mike Sheller
(Tue Dec 22 1998 08:41 - ID#348257)
Pete 7:28
A very gentle, if somewhat paranoid summation of the year - I can't deny that.
Pepi especially liked the part about every dog having its day. As for me, I much prefer Burger King to MacDonalds any day, so I figure I have escaped the clutches of the NWO cabal. At least for now.

As for gold...
any day. Any day....
370 by Spring.

Happy Winter Solstice to all. From the lowest point of light, the Sun will now wax stronger and longer in the sky. Born in Capricorn, a lowly place, as it were ( sorry Capricornians, no offense intended ) , to ascend to equality with the darkness at the Spring Equinox ( when gold will be around 350-370 ) . There, at 0 degrees Aries, the Light takes ascendance over darkness, and everything is born again. The Zodiac commences its tale of human cycles and progress, and the Sun heads toward baptism in its full glory by the entry into Cancer at the Summer Solstice. Make straight the path of the Lord.

The Sun is the light within us all. The Sheckhinah, if you are a Jew, the Holy Spirit, if you are a very reformed Jew. The Light is that which makes us intelligent, human, and, potentially, immortal. How we use it is crucial. This is the message that all great prophets and teachers have brought, and exemplified. The Light within speaks softly, yet it is the thunderous voice of God. Let us all be better able, in the coming year, to listen to that voice of Rightness, Reason, and Intelligence within. To control and reformat our negative and destructive responses and desires, to think less automatically and emotionally, and with Justice, Wisdom, Consideration, and Compassion. Gold is the Metal of the Sun. It is symbolic of our economic life. But that is not all there is. The Sun is the living heart of our solar system, it is symbolic of our natural life. But that is not all there is either. The Light is the Way and the home within us all. It is the Light of the Spirit, and all things come from it. If we go far enough within, we find that IT is US. Let us revere it, and it will raise us up.

Solstice and Holiday Blessings to All!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 08:54 - ID#411163)
PMF-It's no small wonder PM's are lower and we have all lost
money. My brother reminded me that I am betting I can beat ALL THE WORLD'S CENTRAL BANKS AND GOVERNMENTS BY BUYING GOLD. He's right.
I will be right at some point but the timing may be a long time off.
Happy days.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:07 - ID#389171)
GAGNRAD:your 1h21 post of yesterday
Gagnrad:your reference to Thucydide and the peloponnesian war is quite accurate and well adapted.Let s add that Athens&Spart figthed for only one reason...because they were powerful and thus were obliged to look for the growth of their power:Athens&Spart fighted not because they were different ( Athens being a democratia and spart an oligarchia ) ...but because they were alike.Power and its development were the problems,nothing else.Thucydide has probably be the first to write about this. ( ref/ edith Hamilton:the Great Age of Greek Litterature,New York 1942 ) .
This being said,let s pay attention to Global intelligence article posted same day by Sharefin about USA&Russia...Similarity?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:11 - ID#411440)
@ Mike Sheller: It is nice to hear an optimistic word
on gold. Although I think gold is about to fall victim of the
gold carry in the near term ( one month lease rates jumped .25%
this morning and the last time that happened, gold was shorted
down over $3 ) , this activity is about to cease.

At one month lease rates at 1.65% or so, and one month T-bills
at about 4.5%, the forward rate is only about 2.9% If the
forward rate shrinks by only .5%, ( my charts indicate that the
gold carry breaks down at forward rates of 2.4% ) then the gold
carry will cease being economic with two more lowerings by the
Fed of .25% each. This puts your estimate of 370 gold by
spring right in the ball park. This assumes lease rates
remain at present levels. Gold carry could cease earlier if
lease rates spike, either because of CB manipulation or outright
termination of gold leasing. GOLD LEASING is the primary
reason for the 18 year bear market in gold. IF the gold carry
ceases, we are in a totally inelastic market with a mammoth
deficit of supply.

Re the Japanese markets, if the NEIKKEI is tanking and the bond
market is tanking and the Japanese yen is falling, where does
Japanese money go to hide?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:17 - ID#424140)
Cresecnt moves toward gibbous
The crash at Dead Man's Curve:

The Falcon ( Is that a pennant? ) stirs it's wings:

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:25 - ID#183109)
(Rangold 0% lower today on LSE)

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:27 - ID#20359)
Let Clintler's FREEDOM ring...crushed at every turn democracy cries out in CHINA...
where is our dirtbag President's ear...nowhere to be seen...America is so full of liberal and conservative intellectual crap while people living in the real actual reality...they are being beaten...arrested...beaten and beaten again...and jailed...meanwhile back at intellectual CENTRAL Slick Willy keeps bending over America without the courtesy of a reach around...but then I imagine his hands are tied in speaking about HIS employers...,1024,1174-2132-17226-0,00.html,1024,1084-1936-15244-0,00.html

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:27 - ID#256365)
tyx opened at 51.30 what does this mean
Is it becoming difficult to sell 30yr US bonds? This means that something is wrong right?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:28 - ID#255226)
Look for a pull back in the Mar SnP to 1200 - 1190 and then another advance to 1250 - 1275 possibly by year end.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:35 - ID#339274)
the low
will come in the first hour of Tuesday.We'll see

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:36 - ID#411251)
SIGH!!---280-Here we come--So Frustrating

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:39 - ID#424140)
Down down down into the canyon below...

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:42 - ID#284255)
The bumpy road to Y2K
Senator sees major problems for nation, world

U.N. plans for global chaos
Bennett says no plans in U.S. for martial law

Bennett warned that the problem created by two missing numbers in computer systems could mean worldwide devastation.

"In the year, year and a half since that time," said Bennett, "there has been what I can only describe as somewhat surprising progress, as people have gotten on top of this issue, have taken strides that we previously thought they would be unable to take, in time frames that we previously thought were too tight. The picture is now more optimistic than it certainly was a year, year and a half ago."

Other improvements have also been made to make Bennett less concerned now than he was when he first began to warn the country. Many services will be ready in time.

"I think they're on track to being fixed, on track to be ready. Will we have problems to fix? I don't think there's any miracle that can come to place that can prevent us from having problems over the Y2K difficulty," he predicted.

"We will have problems as a nation," he said. "We don't know how serious they will be. We don't know how long they will last. We don't know exactly where they will hit. We just know that the magnitude of the problem connected with the Y2K difficulty is such that it cannot be entirely solved in advance."

"Wells Fargo Bank, in connection with the National Federation of Independent Business, did a survey of small businesses," said Bennett. "I think they interviewed something like 1,200 small businesses in an attempt to do a sample of a poll. Of their sample, 82 percent of businesses had no Y2K plan of any sort. And more disturbing, 40 percent, or half of that number, had no plan to have any plan. That is, they said, 'We do not intend to do anything about Y2K.'"

"Well, maybe nothing, but maybe something," Bennett said hopefully.

As preparations for widespread global panic and disorder over the Y2K crisis begin at the United Nations, the U.S. senator considered the most knowledgeable about the millennium bug, assures the United States does not have plans in place for martial law.

Representatives from 130 nations met in a closed-door meeting Friday to discuss the Y2K crisis and the predicted problems that will occur around the world. The use of SWAT teams and martial law are being planned, according to a source present for the meeting at the U.N.

"I'm not one of those who think that Bill Clinton will automatically, or in some diabolical way, try to manipulate this problem ( Y2K ) to impose improper force on anybody," he stated. "I just don't see any indications of that. Until I see some suggestion that that really is happening I won't believe that it's under consideration."

Bennett did acknowledge that Canada is formulating plans to initiate martial law because of Y2K.

"We don't have the provision to turn out the military from the Pentagon in a presidential declaration of martial law like the Canadians do."

"My own sense of the thing says, no, there's got to be some brownouts. There will be some interruptions, but the power grid will not fail. Don't go out and dig up your backyard and bury propane tanks, or go out and buy your very own generator, because I think we will have power."

Despite his own sometimes-dire warnings, Bennett says no one should have fear.

"I think fear is too strong a word, but I think all of us should have some concern," he explained. "Concern enough to inform ourselves. You need to find out as much as you possibly can about what's really going to happen to you, and then make intelligent contingency plans."


(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:51 - ID#284255)
CNN to air Y2K special report on Jan. 1

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:53 - ID#339274)
long 16 9/16.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 09:55 - ID#284255)
Email Chatter
From: "J.R. Whipple"
Subject: [Y2K] A little light reading

Need a little light reading? As I read this white paper I could not stop
myself from playing a little game of substitution. Each time I read "FAA" I
would see "Power Grid", "Banking System", and/or just about any other agency
or company. I truly believe we are deeper trouble than anyone can totally
comprehend :- (

"Upon review of all information, testimonies and guidance available and
having scrutinized contingency plans, guides and orders produced thus far,
and in consideration of the benchmarks set forth by the agencies internal
failures as described, NATCA perceives the overall condition of the National
Airspace System to be catastrophic, and clearly threatens the economic,
social and strategic health of this nation."

Mike Stewart
(Tue Dec 22 1998 10:01 - ID#270253)
Technical Update
The Toronto Mining Issue McClellan Summation Index is still in decline. It must turn up for the next upleg to begin. This has been the case for several weeks. Not yet.

The New Lows on Toronto Mining Isues exceeded the benchmark 5 issues per day on 9 of the last ten days. The number of new lows are not expanding. This indicator is still negative.

The trendline that rises at 2% weekly from the last major low in the Toronto Gold Index is at 5803 this week. We are right there now.

The 220 Day MA for gold is at 294.79 and falling. We are still on the wrong side of this one.

The 200 Day MA of the Toronto Gold Index is at 6332 and falling. Not good here either.

As has been the case for weeks, caution is the word. No good news yet.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 10:05 - ID#434108)
the missing link - the travesty, & terror of fiat money; & gold vs. the global, Economic-Titanic
"Planned Chaos", a book written long ago, might best be ....
'required reading' every family, class-room, school,
college, and institution ... of 'higher' learning....

Recently prosperous, frugal, honest, upper-middle-class So.
Koreans, now give their children - over .... to -
state-run orphanages.

Russian Rubles, are now -
a dime a dozen.

Brazilian cruzeros,
are crashing, and taking, another -
thundering, and teeming
family of human-kind, down, too.

Could there be a link?

Only when ...... fiat..... -
false money - artificial, paper currency,
and government-engineered credit, is replaced,
gold-based, -backed, and -convertible....
money & credit,
will the world, live, and let live,
in unconditional security, and unbridled, entrepreneurial


(Tue Dec 22 1998 10:10 - ID#277302)
A Market Prediction
Millions of Americans
Will go blind
From reading all those books
They're gonna buy

When the Wall Street wolves
Start to howl
The wholesale slaughter
Of the sheeple
Is about to begin.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 10:19 - ID#317193)
Gollum...the sky is falling....
Again...dips are for....??...dips or me. Me. a little HGMCY and AU...if they drop.

Off to worry and work. Blue skies?


(Tue Dec 22 1998 10:28 - ID#339274)
We are going to see a sharp rally.: )

(Tue Dec 22 1998 10:43 - ID#34459)
Feb AU @ 288.30
This is the price level that needs to hold on the Feb AU. 60 needs to hold on XAU. We should be seeing the lows today, if not then, we are looking at fall away lower prices as we go forward. CRB index may be of some help today. DJAV is near the edge of a cliff and looking over it.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 10:43 - ID#288186)
Cyclist: Thanks for the tip! What percentage odds do you give this XAU
prediction? ( just curious ) TIA, Fox-man

Spud Master
(Tue Dec 22 1998 10:43 - ID#273112)
Spud having a fine morning laughing/crying at the folly of America...
Read this, if can without tossing up yer bangers and mash:

We can bomb the hell out of Iraqis - spatter bloody gibbets of their bodies across streets, cars, Coke machines ...

... but we don't dare write "insensitive" and "culturally hurtfull" things on the same bomb.

It's OK to kill people as long as we do it in a respectful and dignified manner. God help us; we have lost our way, and we shall soon lose even the self-delusion that America is a free nation.

( in a mindlessly cheerful, self-affirming voice )
Meanwhile, back in Washington D.C. yesterday, Bill and Hillary show they "care" about the poor - doleing out slop - ( are the cameras rolling? ) -to the very people created through spirit robbing, neo-slavedom of the welfare state:

What a pair of tender hearted hypocrites: Bill and Hills live like King and Queen in the Whore House, dining in luxury each night on meals prepared by the finest chefs from the choicest foods - meals that cost $450 a person. I wonder if any Iraqi children could use a warm meal, Bill and Hillary?

I wonder if any Iraqi children could use a warm meal, Bill and Hillary?

I wonder if any Iraqi children could use a warm meal, Bill and Hillary?

I wonder if any Iraqi children could use a warm meal, Bill and Hillary?

I wonder if any Iraqi children could use a warm meal, Bill and Hillary?

The only thing that can save America is 1776 II. We've come full circle.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 10:57 - ID#339274)
The probability is high for an initial three hour run.
It could be 2 to 4 points on the XAU scale.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:00 - ID#34459)
March Bonds
Interest Rates have spiked up, March Bonds are in a precarious position.
US99H, Interest Rates are probably the key to all that is in the future.

Spud Master
(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:08 - ID#273112)
Want to know what Bill Clinton's America will look like in another year or two?,1024,1174-2132-17226-0,00.html

Just replace the names of the Chinese dissidents with your own name.

Enjoy your "freedom" while it lasts.

Spud, Reject the worthless slavery-based fiat paper of the Federal Reserve! Buy gold!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:16 - ID#339274)
Sold 16 11/16,standing aside for a possible retest.

Cage Rattler
(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:25 - ID#33182)
Rumors out this morning that 2 Wall Street firms have problems in JGB missed executions and some credit/ margin problems as well.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:28 - ID#339274)
Bought back at 16 9/16,close stop is advisable

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:28 - ID#401460)
Bart - Site Problems Again?
SLOW & these messages?

HTTP/1.0 403
( Execute
Access Denied
- This Virtual
Directory does
not allow
objects to be
executed. )


(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:32 - ID#269409)
Gold / Egypt...DSC
Anyone else watch the Discovery Channel special last night on Egypt and Gold's historical role in antiquity?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:36 - ID#13953)
The Dow and the world holds it's breath, awaiting it's GOD for to speak.
Speak, oh Great One, Speak!

BTW What time does Greenspan speak today?


(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:37 - ID#269409)
Beating Swords into PLowshares
Maybe we need mroe stories like this instead of the bombing of countrie's for personal political gain... only problem with this story is that pesky commodity oversupply!

Tuesday December 22, 11:12 am Eastern Time
( Note: this article is ``in progress''; there will likely be an update soon. )

Pakistan to get 200,000 T US wheat under F-16 deal

WASHINGTON, Dec 22 ( Reuters ) - Pakistan will receive about 200,000 tonnes of U.S. soft
white wheat under an deal announced late Monday to compensate Pakistan for U.S. F-16
fighter jet purchases that were never delivered, a U.S. Agriculture Department aide said

In addition, USDA plans to shift $15 million in PL-480 funding for Pakistan now earmarked for soybean purchases to wheat,
the aide said. However, Pakistan won't be able to use those funds until a PL-480 agreement is signed, the aide said.

The 200,000 tonnes of wheat destined for Pakistan as part of the F-16 deal will be purchased as part of a broader Clinton
administration initiative to reduce U.S. wheat stocks by donating surplus supplies underseas.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:40 - ID#293423)
Date format on ozers
Help anyone. Recently received a purchase of golden eagles and noticed they were not all dated 1998. I had some from 1992 and one that had a date of MCMLXXXVI ( 1986 ) . Was this the original format for date and what year was it discontinued? I am a new buyer of gold ( this year ) and would appreciate anyones comment on this question. TIA

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:41 - ID#229260)
Heard on Public Radio December 21 1998 @ 16.30. 40% of american citizens do not know the meaning of the word IMPEACHMENT, great polling results.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:48 - ID#280215)
Site Access!!
I apologize in advance if this has already been addressed, but what in the hell happened last week and today. I could not get in all week. And today I got in by accident by typing in instead of Has Bart displayed a message letting us know what is going on??

Bart, should we NOT be posting while whatever is going on is being repaired?? Thanks for any info. Maybe its my PC, but it's almost useless to even lurk let alone post.

Signed a Kitco junkie who has realized that I can't live normally without this site. Thanks Bart for this site.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:52 - ID#287186)
Doctor Gold and Aurator on servers and servitude
Bart did get a new server, but it too has succumbed to ever increasing hits from beginning-to-get-worried new and old goldbugs and Y2K lurkers.

The US needn't attack NZ when it can export its insidious disease to do its dirty work from the inside. Why bother wasting lead on the natives when smallpox or measles is far more effective and a lot cheaper.
Hang in there Aurator. Better quarantine the US embassy.

But all is not lost. There are white cells in America that are trying to
fight off those bacteria. It's a tough job but somebody has to do it.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:53 - ID#20359)
We have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and called it pluralism; We have worshipped other gods and called it multiculturalism; We have endorsed perversion and called it an alternative lifestyle; We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery; We have neglected the needy and called it self-preservation; We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare; We have killed our unborn and called it choice; We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable; We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self- esteem; We have abused power and called it political savvy; We have coveted our neighbors possessions and called it ambition; We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression; We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment. --Pastor Joe Wright, in an opening prayer for the Kansas Senate.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:55 - ID#269409)
@Midas.... 1986 American Eagles
1986 was the only year they used the Roman numeral format. 1986 was also the first year up public sales for the modern U.S. mint Gold coin program.

The reason for Roman numeral date on the first year issue, was perhaps in in deference to the original U.S. Mint "Saint Gaudens" $20.00 Gold coin, whose design the modern Eagle has been copied from.

The original "Saint Gaudens" was released in a Roman Numeral "high relief" version, the first year, ( 1907 ) . That coin in pristene high grade mint state condition can now fetch upwards of $100,000 or more!

Beautiful design the "Saint".. ( and the modern AE which has copied it )
The "Saint" is considered by most Numismatists as the most "Beautiful" Gold coin design of all time. Augustus Saint Gaudens who designed it, was also a great sculptor, with many works on display worldwide.

There is no "premium" value to the 1986 coin, in fact it was produced in larger numbers than any subsequent year...except for 1998 which looks to surpass that first year of sales!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:58 - ID#339274)
Stop for today 16 1/2.I'm on auto,having some Christmas cheers.
Have a nice day..: )

(Tue Dec 22 1998 11:59 - ID#20359)
PUBLIC NOTICE in case you missed it...Bart put up a post mentioning that there were
some unexpected changes made by his host which caused some problems for the site...he is working on it...

Not that I want to be insensitive to all but GIVE BART A BREAK...


Jeez Louise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 12:01 - ID#269409)
FED meeting comments..... NON rosy comments
Comments like "Drastic economic slowdown", in 99 ( 2% growth vs. 4% for 98 ) , and "CHicken's going to come home to roost" ... ( in reference to inevitable stock market downturn leading to cutbacks in consumer spending...which fuels 2/3 of U.S. economic activity.. ) should make Gloom and Doom Kitcoites happy!! ( heheh )

No rate cut today.... but we'll see some in 99 I'll bet....

FOCUS-U.S. rates seen steady as Fed starts meeting

Reuters Story - December 22, 1998 11:33

By Knut Engelmann

WASHINGTON, Dec 22 ( Reuters ) - U.S. Federal Reserve policymakers started their final meeting of the year on Tuesday,
amid expectations they will keep interest rates on hold as they wait for stronger evidence of a widely forecast economic

The central bank said the meeting of the rate-setting Federal Open Market Committee started as planned at 9 a.m. EST ( 1400
GMT ) . An announcement on the outcome of the closed-door session is expected at around 2:15 p.m. EST ( 1915 GMT ) .

The meeting marks the end of a tumultuous year for the Fed, in which it cut borrowing costs three times in just seven weeks to
shield the U.S. economy from the fallout of a fierce financial firestorm circling the globe.

While the crisis is still smoldering in many parts of the world, the U.S. economy has put on a solid performance, boosted by
exuberant consumer spending that has so far offset a drop in manufacturing as exports to Asia and elsewhere declined.

But economists said "no change" from the Fed on Tuesday would by no means mark the end of the rate-cutting cycle.

"We will see at least another half- to three-quarter of a percentage point cut in interest rates next year," said Sung Won Sohn,
chief economist at Wells Fargo & Co. in Minneapolis. "The United States is the bright spot in the world economy right now,
but it may not continue to be one next year."

Financial markets appeared to take little notice of the Fed's eighth rate meeting this year. Key U.S. stocks were lower in early
trading, and prices of inflation-sensitive bonds fell, following a day of listless trading across much of Europe.

All 20 U.S. economists polled by Reuters last week said they expected the Fed to keep the key federal funds rate, which banks
charge each other for overnight loans, unchanged at 4.75 percent. The rate has been cut by a total of three quarters of a
percentage point between Sept. 29 and Nov. 17.

The discount rate, charged on emergency loans to banks, was expected to remain steady at 4.50 percent.

But 14 out of the 20 economists saw further cuts in the fed funds rate of at least a quarter percentage point at one of the Fed's
next two meetings. The FOMC will hold a two-day session on Feb. 2 and 3 and then meets again on March 30.

Economists expect a drastic slowdown in the U.S. economy next year to a growth rate of around two percent from just below
four percent this year.

The key reasons: Continued turmoil in the world's emerging markets and a slowdown in consumer spending brought on by
economic uncertainty or, possibly, a drop in stock prices. "We have a global economic slowdown, including in the United
States, and there's a good possibility of further turmoil coming from Latin America, particularly Brazil," said Sohn.

The international community has put together a $41.5 billion rescue package for Brazil, Latin America's biggest economy, to
help it fight off the turmoil. But adoption of harsh reforms tied to the funds has been slow, and officials say that Brazil is far
from over the hump yet.

The International Monetary Fund on Monday also called on the Fed to keep its hands off the rate tiller, saying it should instead
sit back and evaluate the effects of its prior actions on the frazzled world economic system.

"With financial markets having stabilized and recovered in large measure since early October, it would now seem appropriate
for the Federal Reserve to pause before taking further action," it said in its World Economic Outlook report.

Concerns that any more rate cuts now could further inflate an already excessive bubble in U.S. stock prices are set to give the
Fed even more reason to stand pat for now.

The Dow Jones industrial average has surged more than 11 percent since the Fed started cutting rates on Sept. 29 alone,
prompting warnings that the expected rise in corporate earnings which this bull-run is based on is way out of line with what
the real economy can possibly deliver.

"We cannot sustain the kind of environment we're in now," said Bradley Belt, head of international finance and economic
policy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies think-tank. "The chicken's going to come home to roost -- and if
there's a significant market pullback you could see a strong drop in consumer spending."

(Tue Dec 22 1998 12:08 - ID#293423)
Thanks to LGB
Appreciate your prompt response in answer to my question. Glad to learn of a little history about the "Saint". Wisk I had some of those originals. It is a beautiful coin. BTW I swear I specifically called the gold bullion coin something other than what my post stated after it was sent. What's up?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 12:09 - ID#269409)
@ Reify....
Re your 19:48 of yesterday... scrolling back & reading. Good to hear your comment on the subject. As I recall you're in the Haifa area? Wish I could have visited and had a cold one with you when I was there. The last trip was a whirlwind.

What do you think will be the outcome of the no confidence vote and the early elections? Keep us posted. Take care at this Christmas season, in the land which is the center of all.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 12:12 - ID#293423)
Oops LGB
Wisk=Wish But you knew that didn't you.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 12:15 - ID#269409)
@ MidasWell
You're not imagining things. It's a long story, but siffice it to say, this site is set up to change "Gold" to "Golden" when connected to the word "Eagle" for reasons that have nothing to do with the U.S. AE coin!

( Another site was adevrtising their URL here frequently, against rules and policy... and Bart, master of all things Kitco... took exception )

(Tue Dec 22 1998 12:24 - ID#269409)
@ Tolerant1
The pastor's list is a good one...but I wish he'd have added;

"We have taken the world's lowest piece of filthy scum, a purveyor of the grossest deviancy and garbage, and elevated him to the position of presidential right hand man".

As I mentioned's appropriate that Larry Flynt, publisher of Hustler magazine which glorifies and pictures such lovely images as putting women through meat now the darling of the Left, and especially Bill CLinton and his operatives.

What a marriage made in...well.... somewhere.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 12:30 - ID#18355)
lgb, i saw that program last night on gold/egypt.
the message i got from that was the tendancy for greed, egypt wanted as much as possible -- an insatiable need for gold. they wouldn't give it away for anything. i feel that the today's world isn't too much different. the banks aren't giving any away but are prying it off of the fingers of the downtrodden, ie., korean people imf scam.

i also think about how egyptians stole from the burial sites of their own kings, obviously a religion that proved to be less than adequate for the common man. remember moses' staff trumped the magician's staff.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 12:46 - ID#220325)
APH: Many thanks
May you and your family have a great Xmas.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 13:00 - ID#20359)
LGB, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...some more choice Grade A hypocrisy...
Back in 1992, Governor Bill Clinton had a few choice words about President George Bushs pardon of former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger. Mr. Clinton said he was concerned about any action which sends a signal that, if you work for the government, youre above the law, or that not telling the truth to Congress under oath is somehow less serious than not telling the truth to some other body under oath. Of course, we now know there is no accounting for anything Mr. Clinton says.

Advancing Mr. Clintons delay strategy, Dick Gephardt railed that impeachment proceedings would harm military morale, apparently forgetting that when Democrats demanded Richard Nixons impeachment, there were still 500,000 troops in Vietnam. It was a noble effort, Mr. Gephardt.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 13:08 - ID#20359)
ah price...only a matter of time for wars to begin in will go up...

(Tue Dec 22 1998 13:20 - ID#285430)
What's the deal with Palladium?
Does anybody have any explanation of the recent moves in palladium
prices? Is it a good buy now, or overvalued?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 13:21 - ID#28994)
The World Net Daily
is the Internet version of the papers in the class of the National Inquirer.....Pure Crap... Period.
No ifs ands or buts...Pure Crap.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 13:28 - ID#317193)
What's the verdict...Uncle Al...what have you done for me lately? Everyone says you will leave rate as is. Come on now...lower or raise rates...give someone a holiday present.

ponder...ponder...ponder. Went gold. Go golf.


(Tue Dec 22 1998 13:28 - ID#20359)
this OPINION piece poses some extremely tough questions...answer them as you will...

(Tue Dec 22 1998 13:30 - ID#43460)
goldy88 re your 09:07 post
Good point! I think there is a great deal of commonality both of historical evolution of whole empires and the way the citizens or subjects are treated individually and collectively. You mentioned US and Russia. How about the EU, China, Brasil, Japan and India. All are like trees growing up and trying to block sunlight from the others. Some are oak, some are bamboo, some are pine, some are big and some little but all are trees.

Gold, like fertilizer is less needed by the biggest of the forest giants as they have achieved their near maximum size, but people fail to see the little trees still need it to grow.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 13:35 - ID#119358)
@things are lookin' up!
the pigmon just found ANOTHER eggOmuppin in the bottom'o'da garbage can....thus, the pigmon and the oilmon will make it ANOTHER day! Joy to the World!!!

The goldmon has scored a bottle'o't' these dear'ol'pals will surely have A HAPPY DAY!!!!! tings are lookin' up!!!!



(Tue Dec 22 1998 13:35 - ID#20359)
skinny, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...PROVE have lots - O-mouth...what are the facts?
Wired News, Washington Post, Mother Jones, New Australian, Tech Review,, London Times, London Telegraph, South China Morning Post, Abc News...

Each of these companies have articles which are displayed and others on a rotating basis each and every day...

(Tue Dec 22 1998 13:37 - ID#254321)
Gold trends -- not stellar to say the least!
All: I thought for a minute that the Bond collapse in Japan might be a warning of another financial collapse similar to LTCM. But -- all the hoopla seems to be about Japan floating debt where 35% or so of their GNP goes to debt interest management, and where their official debt is equal to their GNP. Downgrading by Moodys' or ? likely. Then I thought about that a bit -- that situation is just what we have in the US right now! So why all the commotion? And the US market VIX is dropping, not rising. Today the US markets are continuing their rally of the last 5 days or so.

So -- no critical reason to sell gold equities, despite their drop, IMHO. Another buying opportunity coming up soon? I don't know.

I had thought by now that the WJC stuff would have given a big boost to gold equities -- perhaps WJC's minions will be able to keep a lid on those ladies that haven't spoken up yet -- like the one from Arkansas that know s all about Charlie Trie -- and just cancelled a talk show session, according to Matt Drudge because her house was broken into, and computer files trashed. Death threats too -- like the ones Asa Hutchinson is getting?

What really frightens me more than losing in the markets -- is what WJC has up his sleeve. What does a 'caged animal' like him -- a master in political poll analysis to mold his public image -- do after impeachment?

There are no more elections for him to prepare for. The only thing is some surprise linked to the y2k crisis. Martial law, triggered by an intentional 'sabotage' of the governments preparedness?

Come y2k what will the Democrats do for a presidential oncore? Nomimate Al Gore? Nominate Hillary? How will Hillary get the nomination now? Perhaps the Dems are just as worried as the Republicans.

Cage Rattler
(Tue Dec 22 1998 13:56 - ID#33182)
Removal futures
These have been rescaled from 0 to 100. Trading and polling on the futures price is directly related to political outcome.

High 66.22, which occurred in the year 1868, was also the last trade prior to this weekend. Low 51.04, which is what the third House article established.

From government figures, the bid is 52.53 ( first article ) while the offer seems to be 55.00 ( partisan number ) .

For technicians, the resistance level is 66.67. Above that level the situation becomes a big blow-out. Rules dicate settlement at 100.00 if resignation occurs.

The support level is 49.50, for anything below that could terminate the removal process.

Official trading starts on January 6, 1999 on the Senate floor. However, off-the-floor trading is expected prior to that date. The public is already engaged: bid 31.00 ( should hold trial ) , and offer 40.00 ( disagree that impeachment alone is sufficient punishment ) .

STRATEGY: writing the 67.00 calls seems a reasonable way to take in premiums, given that over 67% of those polled believe the President can handle his job and remain effective. The Republican group will observe current levels and conclude that they will not want their trading efforts eroded to a mere acquital. Thus there is incentive to drive prices below support for both bulls and bears, provided that the censure+fine option can be knocked-in for the bulls. The existence of such a censure option may depend on whether the terms included immunity from prosecution later. The trader that would benefit the most wears a badge marked BJ, that would be Bill Jefferson.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 13:57 - ID#372214)
commodity analyst suggests gold will hold at $280.00.I wonderrrr

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:02 - ID#269409)
SILVER.... and Superconductivity
Superconductivity... yet one more use for Silver..intially to the tune of perhaps 30 million ounces per annum. Hopefully, climbing from there.

Silver is a key component of superconductors soon to be used in several major electric power demonstrations, which could change the future of energy distribution throughout the world and require substantial quantities of silver in the coming years.

Superconductivity is a phenomenon first discovered in 1911 in which electricity flows without resistance through some materials if cooled to extremely cold temperatures. Ordinary conductors such as copper or aluminum present resistance to the flow of electric current, causing energy to be lost during transmission. Cables made with superconducting wires can carry three to five times more current than conventional copper wires.

Because superconductors transmit electricity without resistance, electrical equipment can be smaller, lighter and
more powerful, as well as more efficient. Applications are being developed and implemented in a wide array of
markets, including electric utility equipment, high-energy physics, diagnostic medical magnetic resonance
imaging, and electronics applications such as filters for cellular base stations.

Prior to 1986, all known superconductors were normally operated below -411oF, and thus are called
low-temperature superconductors ( LTS ) . Such low operating temperatures are difficult and expensive to create
and maintain, and therefore, have found limited and highly specialized applications. In 1986, researchers discovered certain ceramic oxide materials that superconduct at temperatures much higher than the conventional LTS.

Today, the most common method of making HTS wires begins by producing precursor powders, according to a U.S. Department of Energy ( DOE ) Report, published in July 1998, entitled At the Frontiers of Science:
Superconductivity and its Electric Power Applications. The powders are loaded into a silver cylinder which is welded closed. The cylinder is drawn to wire, cut, stacked into a second cylinder, drawn to wire again, and rolled to form a multifilamentary tape. The powders are comprised of four to seven chemical elements which are subjected, between rolling steps, to a series of heat treatments. The temperature at which the material inside the cylinder becomes superconducting is known as the transition or critical temperature which vary depending on the material.

Agrrement to construct an HTS cable that will power several facilities owned b Southwire Company, the largest cable manufacturer in the United States. Intermagnetics General Corporation, a world leader in the development and manufacture of superconducting systems, will develop and manufacture the HTS material to be installed in the
12,500 volt, 1,250-ampere HTS electric cable.

All practical methods for manufacturing HTS wires use silver as a sheath for several reasons. First, silver is highly ductile and can be shaped around the superconducting material which is as brittle as blown glass. As a noble metal, silver does not react with the superconductor, and silver is permeable to oxygen and highly conductive.

Although silver is an expensive material to use as a sheath, nobody has found a suitable substitute for this type of HTS superconductor, said Carl Rosner, chairman and CEO of Intermagnetics. So far, silver is the only material that prevents deterioration of the superconducting properties.

Rosner explained that HTS wire is still in the development stage, and said that to make the technology commercially viable, costs must be reduced by a factor of five or ten. The expense of silver is always a target, he explained, but costs also can be cut in the fabrication process and other superconducting component materials.

Right now we're obviously just involved in building this one test line, Rosner said. Hypothetically speaking, once the test is successful, he said and if we were to replace the transmission line grid in the United States with this technology, it would require enormous quantities of silver  possibly as much as 1000 kilograms per mile.

In addition to the Intermagnetics project, DOE also is expected to fund five additional demonstrations this year through its Superconductivity Partnership Initiative. Two of the projects would focus on building HTS
transformers, while another would build a 120-meter cable system to be installed in the existing power network of Detroit Edison company. A fourth project would develop a reciprocating magnetic separator and a fifth would design a flywheel energy storage system based on existing HTS bearing technology. Altogether, the projects could receive up to $47 million from DOE with industry partners contributing at least 50 percent of total project costs.

DOE's superconductivity initiative is part of the agency's plan for the United States to regain a major share of the global market for electric power systems by 2010. Through the increased use of HTS devices, DOE officials hope to boost domestic productivity and efficiency, especially in industries that are large users of electricity. The global HTS industry is composed of about 50 companies acting as suppliers of raw materials and developers/producers of wires, tapes and components, according to a recent study by Business Communications
Company, Inc. The United States is now the leading testing and application developer of these materials.

We are preparing for a profound change in the way electricity is generated, delivered and used, says Jim Daley, manager of DOE's superconductivity program for electric power systems.

Applications incorporating HTS technology are poised to explode into the market over the next 10 years impacting electronics, transportation, medicine and many other industries as well, the DOE report says. Industry
experts project that the entire market for superconductor products and services could reach $200 billion by 2020. For silver, that could mean more than 30 million ounces annually in the early stages, with significant growth potential as the industry matures.

Because the demand for electricity is expected to double by the year 2030, the introduction of superconductors into everyday use is critical to meeting those future demands, Daley said.

The DOE report compares superconductivity to fiber optics which revolutionized the communications industry, and also to transistors without which digital watches and personal computers would not exist. The capacity of these discoveries to transform our world far surpassed any applications we could have dreamed of, the report says. Superconductivity too, will surely continue to fuel our imaginations.

Aragorn III
(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:03 - ID#212323)
"Movin' pianos, man, that is the worst..."

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:06 - ID#119358)
our gold equities are a'fixin' to take off like a striped-arse ape with a lit roman candle stuck up his butt. zooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOM. ( pOw! )

ALL ABOARD!!! ( always rely on stu for investment advise )


(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:13 - ID#119358)
@aragOrn3........mama sang bass, daddy sang tenor..........
and the kids would join right in 'der..........

( daddy moved one tooooooooO many pianOs! )

A3....HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! and a one...and a gulp.....and a puff ( daddy ) YA!!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:13 - ID#317193)
Did you give someone a present?


Crystal Ball
(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:14 - ID#287411)
my 2 cents plain
Tired of losing money on AOL puts !! XAU is so far down in the sh!tter, figured there's little downside risk in the critter. Bought PDG Jan 10 calls this a.m. @ $150 each, lookin' for a bounce to $13-14 in the underlying. Can't be wrong ALL the time. :- )

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:15 - ID#254130)
Know fear, Know AU - Ohmmmmm
Officials: Japan to push reforms

TOKYO - Japan's top economic official
says his country will no longer rely on
exports to pull itself out of recession and
is moving quickly with internal reforms,
such as cutting taxes and red tape.
Speaking before a group of business
leaders Tuesday, Taiichi Sakaiya said
Japan must follow the example of the
U.S. economy, which he said is reaping
the benefits from a shrinking of
government in the 1980s. At the same
meeting, Prime Minister Keizo Obuchi
said curtailing government involvement
in the economy would lead to
opportunities for creating new

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:16 - ID#20359)
if the real crash occurred in 1927, and the now famous "crash" occurred in 1929 it is
somewhat interesting that consumer confidence is at an historical high two years ( roughly ) after AG's irrational exuberance comment...Hmmmmmm...

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:16 - ID#246224)
Watch interest rates.
They tell the story no one can tell..of fear and the future. When rates transition smoothly from one set of relationships to another we are seeing orderly markets, rationalized markets. When rates spike or act chaoticly then we have sudden impulses of fear on the part of large money interests. These markets are huge and dwarf equities. To move them is to be Godzilla. Sudden movements betray surprise information which drasticly shifts traders perspectives. Fear and loathing.

Japanese 10 year bond was 0.7% in October, was 1.5% a few days ago and now has spiked to 1.9% yesterday. Relatively speaking a holder of a 0.7% bond has lost two thirds of his investment in three months.

Consider the example: a 1 billion Yen, ten year bond purchased at 0.7% yeilds 7 million yen per annum.

If rates are at 1.9% then..

..if you wanted to sell your 0.7% bond you would have to sell it at a discount on the face value in order to make up for the interest rate difference. Your 1 billion Yen bond would bring 368.4 million Yen.


Because 368.4 million yen @ 1.9% would yield 7 million Yen the same as 1000 million Yen @ 0.7% would yield 7 million Yen. So to be competitive in yeild you would have to match the yeild of the higher yielding bond by LOWERING the purchase price to make up for it.

THAT IS WHY YOU NEVER WANT TO HOLD BONDS IN A RISING INTEREST RATE ENVIRONMENT. You will get wiped out if you must sell them. Yet where is ther to go from 0.7%???

The numbers 0.7%, 1.5%, 1.9% seem small and inconsequential. The changes seem minute, lilliputian. But this is a bad, bad thing. Fury is coming down the tracks.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:19 - ID#20359)
Crystal Ball, Namaste' gulp and a puff to the below words and feel better...
THE JANUARY EFFECT: Market analysts are virtually unanimous in their conviction that the stock market will rally in January, merely because it usually does. Anything that is so "certain" to happen usually doesn't, since buying has already been done in anticipation of its "inevitable" occurrence. The January effect has, in essence, been transformed into a December effect. Look for the unthinkable to happen: the stock market will drop in January 1999.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:19 - ID#30345)
steady as she goes

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:31 - ID#255284)
Unbroken circles
If the Japanese are turning inwards and spurning export growth as a means recovery the world is really in deep zoo do.

Much Japanese corporate debt is predicated upon cashflows from increasing market share.
The black hole of imploding Japanese debt is getting scary.

RU a member of The Carter family too? :- )

I think you may be right. A Christmas gold equity rally is on the cards.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:33 - ID#254130)
What's ahead

Major business and economic events scheduled for the
week ahead:

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:48 - ID#25171)
By iteration we should have a january effect in 11 years

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:49 - ID#119358)
@auratOr (stu2)...............
I am a member of the irregular Carters ( another veeery leetle pill ) .....

a cool site for ol' radio katz..... ;^ ) ~

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:52 - ID#254130)
Monday December 21, 6:12 PM

Indonesia orders salavage of sunken World War II
Japanese treasure ship

JAKARTA, Dec 21 ( AFP ) - Indonesian authorities
have appointed a private company to begin
operations to salvage a Japanese treasure ship
sunk off the coast of south Sumatra during World
War II, a report said Monday.
The Ashigahara was sunk by allied forces in the
Bangka Strait on June 8, 1945. The Japanese
ship was believed to be carrying a hoard of gold
and jewels to Japan when it went down in some
27 metres ( 90 feet ) of water.
Andi Asmara, the president of Arimic, said the
13,000 dead weight tonne Ashigahara was
carrying hundreds of tonnes of gold and jewels
when it was sunk in the strait off the island of
The Ashigahara was sunk by allied forces in the
Bangka Strait on June 8, 1945. The Japanese
ship was believed to be carrying a hoard of gold
and jewels to Japan when it went down in some
27 metres ( 90 feet ) of water.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 14:56 - ID#30345)
The triple thump in Japan.
Look for this trend to repeat it self. The Japanese took it on the chun in the bond, equity and yen markets. They shall soon find commodities and especially platinum and gold as a safe haven. They will also begin repatriating the resrves of thier nation by selling dollars. This accompanied by a new reserve currency will move the dollar lower. The Euro will increasingly be included in their reserve currencies as the FED lowers rates next year. Look for this to drive the Dollar lower,bonds lower, , and the "profit taking sell off" in the US equities to kick in in the first quarter of next year. Gold will shine in 99. However gold will lag some of the other PMs becase of its political significance. I feel Pt will go first folloed by silver and gold in short order.

I am going to ask once again...does anyone have any information on the spot price move of Rhodium to the $800 level. I feel this is a crack in the commodities overall down trend.

Once again, Japan must repatriate foreign reserves, not continue issuing more debt instruments. Let the currency wars begin.

Off to the vault to count those Au Maples and see about getting some more of the Pt variety.

Aragorn III
(Tue Dec 22 1998 15:02 - ID#212323)
aurator...and your story only half-remembered...
What was it your soon-to-be best mate said to you when he klunked down your first of many Steinlagers to be shared in good company?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 15:08 - ID#30345)
triple thump errata (AKA I can't typo fast enough)
chun = chin ( this one actually sounds better as chun )
resrves = reserves
folloed = followed

While raising rates may not inuitively lead to lower bond prices for existing bonds. I believe that a renewed fear of inflation via the dollars slide will put the damper on the bond market in spite of rate cuts in the new year. Should gold lease rates remain at current levels this can only reduce the gold carry profitability for investments in other markets. Bullish for the gold market in spite of other commodities lower usage in an overall economic down trend.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 15:20 - ID#249244)
News from Moscow, from my friend...
He said it's getting worse - industrial production
declines with every day, people are leaving factories
and there is no replacement for qualified and "cheap"
labor which used to be in good supply...It means that
very rigid government control is probably coming very
soon....seems to me like USSR-style economy and
POLITICS will be coming back, although in some altered
configuration. Tensions with the U.S. will certainly rise...

Agriculture is in particular sh*t...Anyway, pretty bad
situation and no way out, except total surrender to the
"western capitalistic dogs", which will not happen,
or "back to the USSR" scenario.

Gold will rise... ( grin ) .

(Tue Dec 22 1998 15:25 - ID#254321)
The quiet before the storm -- the eye of the hurricane?
aurator: Did you see the article about the beginning trade war between the US and Europe? Sanctions now up to about 100 million in trade ( don't know time period ) . All because of some flap about some bananas. I wonder whose Bananas are bigger -- theirs or ours? Perhaps Japan is not the only country about to shutter the doors and windows.

So -- are we 'merikans about to replay the script of the 1925-1929 period? With variations ( poetic license ) thereon. Let's see:

-- Then: the roaring 20's, living for the moment -- Now: Heinlein's crazy years -- liberal political 'mania' - black is white, wrong is right -- 125% house loans, negative savings rates. OJ Simpson acquittal. Living for the moment.

Then: 10% equity margins -- Now: Credit card borrowing ( no margin ) .

Then: Booming markets from 1925 to 1929, collapsing after economic slowdown, commodity collapse -- Now: Booming markets, despite slowdown predictions, commodity collapse.

Then: Automotive overproduction/collapse -- Now computer hardware overproduction/collapse, automotive overproduction/collapse coming up.

Then: Considerable personal savings ( despite the 20's boom ) -- Now: No savings, with 1% actual hard cash in the banks -- rest virtual.

And: What we didn't have in 1929:

1 ) An impeached president wagging the dog

2 ) The information revolution

3 ) Y2k problem

4 ) Horrendous private/corporate/federal debt

5 ) Electronic money ( not paper ) -- instant evaporation possible.

Anything to add?

One light shining through the darkness of these crazy years is from the Republicans who voted for what was best for the country this last weeked, and not for what the public opinion polls indicated. For that I am still proud to be an American.

Perhaps Diogenes can still find an honest man ( In the good 'ol USofA ) .

Happy Holidays.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 15:32 - ID#119358)
and I quote........

"One light shining through the darkness of these crazy years is from the Republicans who voted for what was best for the country this last weeked, and not for what the public opinion polls indicated. For that I am still proud to be an American."

( gulp ) ( gulp ) salud!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 15:43 - ID#119358)
@O.ris.......saddam......sad.duma.........bombs/oil carry trade.......
does your friend know the current oil bbls/megaton trade ratio? I have some extra oil too. TIA salud!

Old Soldier
(Tue Dec 22 1998 15:49 - ID#185274)
JTF Then & Now
Then: Many people with home gardens. Now: Very few people with gardens or knowledge of how to grow food plants.

Then: Many small multicrop farms close to many small towns. Now: Big monocrop farms far from many huge population centers.

Then: Many private wells, cisterns, springs, lakes provided widely distributed water supply. Now: Big municipal water systems.

Then: Many outhouses and septic systems. Now: Big centralized sewerage systems.

Then: Many people with a broad range of useful skills; animal husbandry, canning, butchering, hunting, automotive mechanics, blacksmithing, food preparation, welding, reloading, weaving, primitive medicine, etc. Now: Few people with any significant set of practical skills

It will be ugly, very ugly.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 15:51 - ID#365216)
this makes me have to "take a "Clinton"":
Clintler volunteers to do charity work. Makes you want to hurl:

(Tue Dec 22 1998 16:19 - ID#222231)
Crap is better than pure adulterated misinformation and propaganda put out by the so called news wire services, tv media and other rags such as Washinton Post, etc. IMHO.

Merry Christmas


(Tue Dec 22 1998 16:21 - ID#394218)
Where did you obtain the article on silver as a superconductor? Thanks

(Tue Dec 22 1998 16:22 - ID#28994)
Funny how the idiot news sheets always have copys of letters from every important person in every major country.
They always have far out news that never seem to make the Major American Networks.
And yes, I have been called a bigmouth and many other names on this forum, and always from the same people.
It always happens when you don't agree with them.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 16:26 - ID#372214)
it may be time to throw in the towel....Top of the season to all..GOD BLESS!!!!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 16:30 - ID#28994)
I agree with you...A person has to be carful and sort thru the crap , the bull, hype and whatever.......... common sense will do a lot to sort it out. From any source, one must be carfull.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 16:36 - ID#253418)
OIL at 11.12 and gold at $288
And the XAU in the tank . . . nothing much to say other than I too see some alarming similarities between 1999 and 1929, including the last digit.

Gee the good news is: the remainder of the tax loss season is short and the Euro gets started on the 4th of Jan. What was ever decided by the Eruo folks relative to the leasing and sales of CB gold.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 16:45 - ID#411251)
I'M SO DISCOURAGED....Merry Christmas..

EZ Believer
(Tue Dec 22 1998 16:54 - ID#173262)
JTF ... You are preaching to the choir, won't get much disagreement here.
Trouble is, this is nothing new. We have been saying the same thing for years with many losses to show for it. Let's face it, the prudent investor bought the S&P 500 with a little Yahoo and Amazon for growth. The general market has been kicking sand in our face and all we can say is
"someday your going to get whats coming to you!" . All the while the paper blizzard flourishes while hard assets get trashed. I firmly believe we will have our day, "IF", we don't go down in smoke first.

Your comments point to a much larger concern that threatens Americans freedom and way of life. The ignorance of the general public is beyond
description. My dogs don't train as easily as the average morons watching the talking heads on the six oclock news. "Cooked" or not, recent polling data suggests the average American is clue-less when it comes to knowing what made America great.

Draft dodging, White Water, Travelgate, Filegate, Numerous bimbo eruptions, Vince Foster, Ron Brown, illegal Chinese campaign contributions, Chinese naval base in California, High technology transefered to China, and last but not least, a president viewed by all directly lying to us and a Grand Jury has an approval rating of 60% to 70%. No matter what ones political leanings, how can this be? Are we following the path of Rome?

Too many generations have had it too good. We are becoming soft and decaying from within. Just pray the wake up call isn't fatal! Or that 1776 #2 isn't required.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:00 - ID#348129)
Gold was trashed again today, along with most quality Gold stocks.
NOT gonna be very good holidays for me at all, no.
Very disheartening indeed....

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:01 - ID#284255)
Swing chart updated

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:13 - ID#26793)
Dow/Gold Ratio = 31.40. The 233 day moving average is 29.37

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:15 - ID#26793)
XAU/Spot Ratio = .213. The 233 day moving average is .248

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:21 - ID#386245)
Barnacle Bill
Did you know that a male barnacle has'thingie' that is five times longer than its body? Now when the barnacle wants to mate it just uncoils its thingie and searches out female barnacles range.

What has this to do with the price of gold, you say?? Well for the past year, politics, economics and our very lives have been consumed by Barnacle Bill's roaming thingie. I know I should clam up about this, but I resent my life being taken over by a barnacle!!

EZ Believer
(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:27 - ID#173262)
Even a Kitcoite!
Skinny thinks that World Net Daily is pure "crap". OK, all information should be filtered by independent thinking and common sense. But later this "burning bulb" effectively states that the litmus test of legitamacy is coverage by the major American networks.

See what I mean folks!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:33 - ID#402236)
Gonna see if I can't take the suit back, I bought for Vronsky's "400" celebration party.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:35 - ID#254321)
At least there is a glimmer of hope!
EzBeliever, Old Soldier: As long as there are the likes of you, all is not lost! Old Soldier: Thanks for adding the business about the subsistence farming/victory gardens. Then -- but not now. I have a number of books on subsistence farming.

If we do get a market collapse, all those people fed the lies/deception/welfare will have a rude awakening -- y2k alone could do it. They will not take their lot quietly -- especially in the big cities.

I am not proud of being an American -- when I see what has been done to destroy the character of individuals less fortunate/literate than you and I -- those who do not realize that the lies are far more insidious than just the lies that come from the president. The very fabric of the American way has been distorted. The president did not start the lies -- but he seems to be the culmination of them.

Now -- such lies have been spread before -- in the 20's as well. But now the scope of these lies is much greater -- the very political base of one of our national parties depends on the unsuspecting public believing the lies/distortion of the truth. I think many of our Democratic leaders have begun to believe their own lies -- or at least to think that they cannot exist without repeating the lies. Our 'welfare class' has been duped into believing that they can survive on handouts from the government, instead of having to fend for themselves by the substistence farming in the 20's. In return for votes.

I realize now that what should have been done was to develop 'grass roots' programs to develop job skills years ago -- in the local communities. And -- people should have been slowly relocated to rural areas where the working conditions would have been much better -- in the long run. This is what will happen eventually, anyway, but at great cost. When the unsuspecting public awakens, they will lash out against the government that jilted them, as well as against innocent others who happen to be nearby.

The US government should never have gotten involved with welfare. I am ashamed to be an American and see what we have damage we have wrought with the American Indian repeated on so many others.

I am appalled that the current leader of this country can actually say he is in favor of education and taking care of the children, when he has done nothing to correct a monumental mistake in government leadership. This mistake makes all the xxxgates look minuscule. The deception of millions of people who now have had their identity taken away from them -- by their own goverment.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:36 - ID#20359)
skinny, Namaste' gulp and a puff to fact two more gulps so I can try to land in your orbit..
"They always have far out news that never seem to make the Major American Networks." skinny -your quote

These sources DO "make" the "major" American Networks...In fact ABC states "more Americans get their news from ABC than any other news source"...

When you go to WorldNetDaily these articles are on display and they take you to the web site from which the article had its origin...Wired News, Washington Post, Mother Jones, New Australian, Tech Review,, London Times, London Telegraph, South China Morning Post, ABC News...

You typed a bunch of words but you sure did not say anything...

Got a point?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:38 - ID#26793)
@Nick@C: "Barnacle Burton" been doing much of the same. Fresh charges of misconduct

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:41 - ID#249232)
Don't dispair--better days are ahead
Gold shares are very inexpensive these days. This is like money thrown on the ground. All you have to do is to bend and pick it up. Most of them are selling for cash. In my opinion,you will not get the same opportunity in 1999.
The advance/decline line on the NYSE is worsenning, new high's vs new low's not improving and the transport index refuses to confirm the Dow new high's. The day of reckoning is getting closer. I wish each and every one a good X-mas and a happy new year.May you be healthy and happy in 1999. God bless.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:41 - ID#254130)
Tuesday December 22, 5:10
pm Eastern Time

US fund managers
push levels to
historic lows--MCM

NEW YORK, Dec 22 ( Reuters ) -
U.S. money managers pushed cash levels and
government holdings to the lowest levels in the
history of MCM's Investor Survey, the company
reported Tuesday.

The survey also revealed a drop in overweighted government holdings, with levels falling to
3.0 percent from 8.0 percent in the prior week, MCM said.

``Investors appear to be less bullish nearing the end of 1998,'' the report noted, with the
percentage of respondents saying that their next likely move would be to ``buy'' slipping to
49.0 percent from 53.0 percent in the prior survey.

Weighted durations inched up to 100.1 percent from 100.0 in the prior two surveys.

Overweighted corporate, mortgage and agency holdings remained unchanged from the prior
week's survey, registering 71 percent, 55 percent and 6 percent respectively.

The survey reflects a mix of money market, hedge funds, pension funds and other accounts
as a measure of investors' sentiment, according to MCM. It is comprised of 38 domestic
participants managing $110 billion in fixed income assets, MCM noted.

Results of the survey follow:
Category* December 21, 1998
Duration percentage of benchmark 100.1 pct
Next Likely Move-Buy ( B ) /Sell ( S ) 49 pct B-14 pct S
Over ( O ) -Under ( U ) Weight Benchmark
Governments 3 pct O-70 pct U
Corporates 71 pct O- 7 pct U
Mortgages 55 pct O-33 pct U
Agencies 6 pct O-26 pct U
Cash as a percentage of assets 2.45 pct
Percentage experiencing cash
In ( I ) - Out ( O ) 32 pct I-12 pct O
Over ( O ) -Under ( U ) weight Benchmark
1- to 5-year duration sector 44 pct O-29 pct U
5- to 10-year duration sector 20 pct O-27 pct U
10+ year duration sector 50 pct O- 7 pct U
* Table provided by MCM MoneyWatch Inc consultants.
Results are dollar-weighted.


(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:44 - ID#29048)
AOL to replace Venator in the S&P 500!!!
If the index doesn't go up fast enough, change the players!!!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:54 - ID#254321)
Why Gold can't go much below 280/oz
JP: Thanks for the pep talk!

I think the strongest argument for gold holding its own is that the US dollar cannot be allowed to strengthen significantly ( gold below 280/oz ) without destroying the world's financial system. At the very least, our balance of payments would be even more dismal that it is right now.

For this reason, I don't think the European CB's will sell their gold. But -- on the other hand I don't think the powers that be will sit idly by while gold skyrockets to $350/oz either. There will be a trading range for gold -- and it will be fairly tight.

Wish I had been more alert at the switch, and sold my gold equity holdings at the beginning of the week. Well, at least I still have about 60% of my liquid assets in cash, and the rest languishing in precious metals equities.

We do need to be on the lookout for another market meltdown -- where the CB's lose control of the markets completely. Given the EURO launch this month, they will be on red alert.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 17:57 - ID#26793)
U.S. Treasury bonds vulnerable to Japanese selling

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:02 - ID#45173)
Favorite Quotations
"There is no means of knowing beyond question how far this recent rise in stock prices represents excessive speculation and how far a readjustment of values to increased industrial efficiency [ . . . ] and larger profits."

- Extract from the Fed's minutes 70 years ago, in 1928, on the eve of the Wall Street crash.

"We do not know why a great speculative orgy occurred in 1928 and 1929... Far more important than the rate of interest and the supply of credit is the mood. Speculation on a large scale requires a pervasive sense of confidence and optimism and conviction that ordinary people were meant to be rich. People must also have faith in the good intentions and even in
the benevolence of others, for it is by the agency of others that they will get rich... The common folks believe in their leaders... Such a feeling of trust is essential for a boom."

- J.K.Galbraith, The Great Crash 1929

"Like a dropsical man calling out for water, water, our deluded citizens are clamoring for more banks, more banks. The American mind is now in that state of fever which the world has so often seen in the history of other nations. We are under the bank bubble, as England was under the South Sea bubble, France under the Mississippi bubble, and as every nation is liable to be under whatever bubble, design, or delusion may puff up in moments when off their guard. We are now taught to believe that legerdemain tricks upon paper can produce as solid wealth as hard labor in the earth. It is vain for common sense to urge that nothing can produce but nothing, that it is an idle dream to believe in a philosopher's stone which is to turn everything into gold, and to redeem man from the original sentence of his Maker, "in the sweat of his brow shall he earn his bread."

- Thomas Jefferson

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:04 - ID#26793)
Lenders expect 1999 will bring increase in bankruptcy, unemployment & losses.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:09 - ID#26793)
Closing gold and silver coin prices

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:10 - ID#386245)
G'day Donald
How does the XAU/spot ratio compare with when the XAU was down to 48 a few months ago? What is the all-time low in the ratio?

I remember the XAU below 50 was a particularly good buying point and resulted in a 70%+ gain in a couple of months. We didn't get quite that much upside down here, but sure made up for some losses. Am itching for the right shoulder ( H&S bottom ) to finish. Lost control of my trigger finger a bit last week--much to my regret. Have to sit on it right now.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:15 - ID#26793)
Wall Street Transcript publishes special gold investing issue.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:20 - ID#257312)
New Market Measuring Stick-- Gold vs eBay

Today, eBay closed at $301. You would pay about the same to get an ounce of Gold. In other words, one ounce of Gold will buy one share of eBay. Which would you buy now?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:21 - ID#227238)
Sure is to be difficult to get a good hypocritical rant going these days. Just about the time these bastards get their gas bags filled and prepare to launch, some jerk reporter pokes a hole in the balloon. LOL. ..... I believe the conservatives totally misunderstood the terms of their 1994 mandate. They got an operators permit and thought they had free license to range without performance.

Now it would be nice if some reporter would point out that, even though they lack cajones, Democrat's "thingies" have also been found in flagrante delicto.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:22 - ID#280110)
Y2k Tolerant 1 13:28 and JTF 13:37. The passage of all of the Executive Orders
that will give the President the authority to declare martial law so that FEMA can take over transportation, utilities, banks, food distribution, etc. is a cure worse than the disease if we will continue to get the spin and lies that have been put out lately. Where was Congress when these Orders were signed? Congress has the authority to overturn these. Does Congress agree that this President should have this authority or is the current impeachment effort an attempt to solve this problem? Where were Clinton and Gore when time was available to solve the Y2k problem? This will be their legacy and in 50 years, the lies, pejury, sex etc. will be but a footnote in History. Generator sales are skyrocketing. Something to consider. Some people assume that if the electric power grid goes down, they can use natural gas to run their generators and to heat their homes. This will not happen. Natural gas supplies depend on a reliable source of electricity to run the compressor stations that pump the gas through the pipelines. The natural gas is also a primary fuel to produce electricity in many of these plants. Diesel or propane would be more reliable. Safe water will also be a problem. I live in a middle size city in the South. The mayor said the water supply will be O K as there are no computers running it. I went to the AWA website ( American Waterworks Association ) found my city and maybe the mayor was right as there were zero comments about embedded systems, Y2k etc. on the site. The water is safe, chlorinated, floridated, tested for TCP drycleaner solvents etc. and is a quality supply but it just will not be available in 2000. Embedded systems will also screw up oil wells, refineries, gas stations etc. even if the banks stay open which will be difficult without electricity. We are then told that power will be restored and these problems will be fixed in 3 or 4 days with the power off when they could not be fixed in 4 years with the power on. Many thanks to Sharefin for his efforts to educate the Kitcoites to the dangers of these problems. Gold will be a good store of value for use after the crisis has settled down but it may be dangerous to use it immediately after the crisis and become a target for theives. Why didn't the computer industry recognize and fix this problem years ago? They spendt time and effort to enhance the systems without overhauling the engines so that the plane would not crash before it finished crossing the ocean.
When the public wakes up and panics, don't get caught in the stampede.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:26 - ID#254288)

Speed; Ya mean that AOL was not part of the S&P 500. Is Amazon?
Rumpled; make sure the suit hasn't any burn marks from your experience as a young man -on the golden sands.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:26 - ID#26793)
There have been only 7 days in history when the XAU reached 59 or less and they were the consecutive trading days starting August 26, 1998 and ending September 3, 1998. The low point was 8-31-98 with an XAU of 48.89, a gold price of $275.30 producing an XAU/Spot Ratio of .178. That is the only reading in history when the XAU reached the 40's. The high spot gold point during those seven days was $281.50

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:31 - ID#286224)
Option quote sites
Could some of you post your choices of the best FREE sites for options quotes ( and charting? )


(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:46 - ID#386245)
Thanks Don
In Oz 'The Don' is arguably the most famous and respected person in the country. You have been 'The Don' for Kitco for the couple of years I have been here.
The stochastics I warned about a couple of weeks ago have been a good predictor of gold's direction. The downturn is not yet over. Timewise, IF we are to have a head and shoulders bottom, we have also got a way to go ( although depth is more important than width of shoulders ) .

If we go below the head, all bets are off. I would then not be able to even guess where the bottom may be. I think we have already seen the bottom and will be putting my money where my mouth is. Your money?? You decide.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:46 - ID#303233)
This is getting monotonous... Another high...
in the S&P 500/Gold Ratio: 4.189.

We're 23.1% higher than year-end 1997;
49.5% higher than the peak day in 1968;
170.8% higher than 1929's peak day.

In a nutshell, this ratio has grown at an annual rate of 20.0% for the last 19 years ( from 0.132 to 4.189 ) . Sure explains our pain.

I repeat: don't lose sight of the other side of this run--the downside. As painful as this stock mania is for us goldbugs, the pain exacted on equities relative to gold was even more painful from 1968 to 1980. Although the pain only lasted twelve years for equity lovers ( vs. our current nineteen years ) , the decline was brutal. Relative to gold, the S&P 500 declined 95.3% ( 2.802 to 0.132 ) during that time; an average annual rate of decline of 22.5%.

All is not lost. In fact, it is likely a time to BUY. Gold and gold stocks are incredibly cheap right now. Buy, don't expect insta-quick returns, and you will do fine.


(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:47 - ID#26793)
My own feeling is that this whole mess goes back 225 years to the original argument about the extent of federalism vs. states rights. That is probably the bacic argument that caused the Civil War and it has not yet been resolved. Federalism got a boost in 1932 and kept expanding through till today. During the Depression, the war and cold war years, no one complained about growing federalism because it seemed necessary to deal with those problems. Now that the Cold War is over ( hopefully ) the argument resurfaces. Clinton is in trouble because he is an ardent supporter of an excessively and unnecessarily strong federal system, not because of his private life; that is just the excuse that is being used to nail him. His detractors selected the wrong excuse to get him because they are guilty of the same. It is time for an honest argument about the type of government we need for these times without the sexual sideshow. That garbage only causes a distraction from the real problem and gets us nothing except justifiable disrespect from the rest of the world.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 18:47 - ID#254288)
Y2K..Y2K...and more Y2K

If your concerned about Y2K, discuss only the personal preparations of problems that you may foresee, but don't panick yourself and others about them.
Constant ranting about its dangers will invite the government to activate FEMA's powers.
IMO to prepare quietly is the best approach.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:05 - ID#28994)
The News
At the start of many news articles, is the word "commentary", which basically means "someone's opinion or slant on the news". If you see the words "exclusive commentary", the writer is trying to inform you that it is his opinion or his slant on the news only. His opinion does not necessarily mean it is true. Andy Rooney on 60 Minutes is probably one of the better known commentary writers. Normally what he says appears to be quite true, but is not necessarily news. All newspapers carry a section for the columnists or opinion writers. Normally, it is their own slant and not necessarily hard core news.
Point -- commentary is not necessarily news and must be judged accordingly.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:08 - ID#227238)
I agree with your premise regarding states rights. Unfortunately, the subject never seems to be debated as a singular issue but rather as an assumed element of a particular piece of legislation. As a result, the general public, if it's even capable of discerning the sublety, remains unaware of the larger more important issue: The length and breadth of central power. ...... In the meantime, the federal sugar teat insures that political power remains where it has been for most of our existence as a republic.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:10 - ID#411259)
..... Gold .....

Is only doing what it does
Not to worry -- at least not much
Been lookin' for $285 for a spell
Now, methinks $280 is just a sniff away

Last time on her knees, this
For our fair yellow lass
Will rise to her former self
In the last year of this millenium

Righty O

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:14 - ID#372180)
IRA's With Physical Gold
Can anyone tell me if it is possible to transfer retirement monies into an ira account that contains physical gold in some manner i.e. at the dealer, bank, some other entity?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:16 - ID#275201)
It's a fact. The polls tell us so. The majority of Americans think President Clinton is doing a fine job and should not be removed by the Senate. Think about it. A perjurer. A betrayer of trust. Could you imagine Nixon registering over 70% approval rating in the same circumstances?
So what has this President got going for him?
Was it not inevitable that a President elected upon the slogan 'It's the economy, stupid' would recognize that enduring prosperity and popularity are inextricably linked and why is it not a surprise that the stockmarket boom has provided the means to that end?
As to-day's fortyniners seek gold on Wall Street a sign should be hanging in the Oval office reading 'It's the stockmarket, stupid'. There should also be a prayer mat because if Joe Public discovers fool's gold at the end of this stockmarket rainbow, the guillotine will fall on the President's neck faster than you can say Marie Antoinette.
But it is only so because the American public is resting in the arms of Morpheus. Wake up America!
The great offence of this President is not his philandering or the attempt to cover up his sexual peccadillos. Which of us has never succumbed to some human frailty, which of us has never sought to justify a lie with a lie? It is not that he may have lied to his wife - that is their problem.
The great offence is that he has dishonoured his great office, cynically, calculatedly and conclusively.
Where the great offence is, let the great axe fall.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:23 - ID#277224)
Year 2000
According to the film documentary If" You Love This Planet"
Dr.Helen Caldicot indicates that at what was the height of the
Cold War the Russians had some 20,000 nuclear warheads and the
United States 30,000 of same.This was enough fire power for the
Russians to kill everyone in the U.S. two times. The Americans
on the other hand had the capability to kill every Russian three
times.If someone is killed once why would you want to kill him
again is a mystery.

According to agreements after the Cold War many of these were
supposed to be deactivated.If they actually were is another mystery.
However, to the point, I wonder to what extent these nuclear weapons are time
sensitive and would possibly be affected by the millenium bug?
According to previous posts here I understand that many of the
nuclear weapons have multiple interelated antiquated computer systems.
With a failure rate of only one tenth of one percent thats a lot of
bombs going off or missiles being launched.
As a point of interest this documentary was banned in the U.S..
I understand , in part, because it underscored the insanity of it all.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:24 - ID#432148)
Very well said. Both of my kids with their liberal education at the Univ. of Calif. voted for him. They both now say he should resign.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:25 - ID#45173)
It's all true!
I know this guy whose neighbor, a young man, was home recovering from having been served a rat in his bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken. So anyway, one day he went to sleep and when he awoke he was in his bathtub and it was full of ice and he was sore all over. When he got out of the tub he realized that HIS KIDNEYS HAD BEEN STOLEN and he saw a note on his mirror that said "Call 911!" But he was afraid to use his phone because it was connected to his computer, and there was a virus on his computer that would destroy his hard drive if he opened an e-mail entitled "Join
the crew!" He knew it wasn't a hoax because he himself was a computer programmer who was working on software to save us from Armageddon when the year 2000 rolls around. His program will prevent a global disaster in which all the computers get together and distribute the $600 Neiman Marcus cookie recipe under the leadership of Bill Gates. ( It's true-I read it all last week in a mass e-mail from BILL GATES HIMSELF, who was also promising me a free Disneyworld vacation and $5,000 if I would forward the e-mail to everyone I know. )

The poor man then tried to call 911 from a pay phone to report his missing kidneys, but reaching into the coin-return slot he got jabbed with an HIV-infected needle around which was wrapped a note that said, "Welcome to the world of AIDS."

Luckily he was only a few blocks from the hospital-the one, actually, where that little boy who is dying of cancer is, the one whose last wish is for everyone in the world to send him an e-mail and the American Cancer Society has agreed to pay him a nickel for every e-mail he receives. I sent him two e-mails and one of them was a bunch of x's and o's in the shape of an angel ( if you get it and forward it to twenty people you will have good luck but ten people you will only have ok luck and if you send it to less than ten people you will have BAD LUCK FOR SEVEN YEARS ) .

So anyway the poor guy tried to drive himself to the hospital, but on the way he noticed another car driving along without his lights on. To be
helpful, he flashed his lights at him and was promptly shot as part of a gang initiation.

And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages.

Crystal Ball
(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:25 - ID#306416)
@ Techtrader
Of course,you can have Anerican Eagle gold coins in your IRA. But do you want those b*stards to know you have gold? Think back to that thief FDR.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:28 - ID#293379)
I thought the administration was anti-nuke...

For first time, civilian nuclear reactor to produce weapons

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. ( AP ) - For the first time in U.S. history, the
goverment is about to breach the long-standing wall separating civilian
uses of nuclear power from military ones.
The Energy Department announced Tuesday that it is awarding a
billion-dollar contract to the Tennessee Valley Authority to produce
tritium at a TVA nuclear reactor near Knoxville that generates
electricity for homes and businesses in the Southeast.

Tritium is an isotope that enhances the explosive force of nuclear

The decision marks the first time in the nation's history that a
civilian nuclear plant will be used to produce weapons material.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:37 - ID#284255)
After the weeping it is enough to make you angry. What happened to humanity's sanity???
Attack on Iraq

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:41 - ID#20359)
skinny, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...duz yuz readz da posts?
find something better to kvetch and moan about or is it that nothing satisfies...Date: Tue Dec 22 1998 13:28 tolerant1 ( this OPINION piece poses some extremely tough questions...answer them as you will... ) ID#20359:

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:46 - ID#220325)
John Templeton founder of the Templeton Fund (First successful mutualfund)
Said he buys his shares when "Blood is flowing in the streets." Is it time now!

Crystal Ball
(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:49 - ID#306416)
Yeeeeeee Haaaaawwwwww
EJ- you got a hell of a sense of humor!
Tolerant 1 - have a few gulps and puffs on me. If'n the XAU doesn't rally outta here like a Banshee REAL soon, call me Barnacle Bill.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 19:59 - ID#376309)
President Clinton is such a lieing cheating scum. Some interesting reading and many more interesting links!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:00 - ID#372214)
looking in??
This site has a ..real air of inspiration tonight.Ithasen't been this positive and to the point in a while.Now were cooken!!!GO KITCO....

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:06 - ID#344239)

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:10 - ID#28994)
Stupid News
Joseph Farah.... Comentary or his opinion on Clinton and Y2k.
Tough Questions eh. .... mabey for shop talk for most.
Would'nt want to show up at a serious buissness meeting and plunk them on the table.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:19 - ID#210253)
Funny Story
EJ, Thanks much for the laugh-out-loud story. Always remember, the first law of goldbuggery is that you can't be certified 24k unless you have a well structured ego coupled with a huge sense of humor.

THE Priest
(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:21 - ID#371242)


(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:24 - ID#20359)
skinny, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...opinion = commentary = stupid news = pointless posts now it is are the true and real worthwhile things and thoughts in this,me,me,me,me, me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me...

who cut my hair?

where is my coffee?

how dare anyone bring these worthless newspapers with opinions other than mine to a board meeting?

This is my planet darn it!!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:25 - ID#330280)

COMEX Metal Warehouse Statistics for Dec. 22

Gold 811,471 + 0 troy ounces
Silver 76,415,034 + 0 troy ounces
Copper 92,421 + 487 short tons

There were no changes in totals, but there was an adjustment in Gold.
There was 1000 oz's transferred from Eligible to Registered...
I'm still looking for the possibility of Silver moving back above 5.00
as long as 4.87 level isn't penetrated. This is per EWT short term update.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:36 - ID#386245)
More on ECHELON. I've just used a key word, no doubt.
So you think your e-mails, phone calls and faxes are private do you??? Big Brother is watching you. Just use a 'Key Word' and Big Brother with his computer will be there.

I wonder if 'gold' is a key word??

Ours is not the only Aurator:
"According to former
Canadian Security Establishment agent Mike Frost, a voice recognition
system called Oratory has been used for some years to intercept diplomatic calls."

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:38 - ID#341312)
Contact American Church Trust Company at 1-800-228-8825 and ask for a self directed IRA packet. You can transfer money from your existing IRA ( do NOT take possession of it yourself ) to ACTC who holds it in a money market until you purchase coins from the dealer of your choice. Eligible gold coins include the American Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf , and Austrian Philharmonic. Eligible silver coins include the Eagles and Maple Leafs. Your coins will be stored at Wilmington Trust in Delaware. It's an alternative to electronic holdings that just might be a really, really good idea in about 13 months or so. Good Luck!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:42 - ID#20359)
Just the facts Mamm...just the facts...

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:46 - ID#284255)
SWP1 - option sites

Plus there are dozens of sites at

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:47 - ID#370218)
TechTrader...check this out first... the net asset value and see if it is lower than even spot storage fees either. Gold and silver...about 50/50.


(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:50 - ID#370218)

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:52 - ID#33188)
gold stocks experiencing tax loss selling
At the end of this year of big gains in other sectors, people may be selling their gold stocks at a loss to reduce their taxes on non-gold capital gains. If that is so, we could continue to see new lows in the golds to year-end, but an end to the selling as January begins. Then might be a starting point to begin to re-accumulate gold and silver shares.

CDE is projecting the cost to mine gold at its Kensington mine in Alaska at less than $195 an ounce. Is anybody doing it cheaper?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:53 - ID#372214)
This reminds me of "You shall not buy nor sell without the mark of the beast"...666...on your hand or forehead....CRAZY STUFF eah!!!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:55 - ID#391172)
A lot of things have happened which make me doubt humans are in control.Using DU bullets is one. Y2k is another. The natural life on our planet is being attacked.

Maybe there is no limit to the depravity of man, but maybe this orchestration of disaster comes from somewhere else. I wonder...I wonder where are the responsible men? Ass kissers are all we are coming up with.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 20:59 - ID#413109)
LGB Just Caught your comment
Can't call the political shots any better than what the papers
print, but any comments or opinions I would rather share in email
and not in posts. Please resend yours, as the last one I had dis-
sappeared from my screen.

What a time to have money to buy Gold and other PMs.
Hindsight is so much simpler than foresight.
Used to think of myself as a pretty fair chart reader, and
have had successes, but now.......OH BOY!!!!!

ONe must see this as a base builder for the PMs

The bigger the base, the higher she'll fly.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:00 - ID#413109)
LGB Just Caught your comment
Can't call the political shots any better than what the papers
print, but any comments or opinions I would rather share in email
and not in posts. Please resend yours, as the last one I had dis-
sappeared from my screen.

What a time to have money to buy Gold and other PMs.
Hindsight is so much simpler than foresight.
Used to think of myself as a pretty fair chart reader, and
have had successes, but now.......OH BOY!!!!!

ONe must see this as a base builder for the PMs

The bigger the base, the higher she'll fly.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:02 - ID#370218)
Japan...and I thought the drop would be at least 500 points...not yet^N225&d=t Only about 375 now.


(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:08 - ID#29048)
That drop on the Japanese market happened last night....
Yahoo isn't updating the Nikkei tonight.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:11 - ID#413109)
Just happened to catch your comment.
Politics, and such, I would prefer to discuss via email.
Most of the local news is available through professional
news services, far better and more accurately then I would
be able to render.

If you would like feelings and opinions, have a bunch again
via email.

Have some new Bahai shots recently taken as well.

What a time to have some capital to invest in PMs.
Would never have thought they could get to these levels
a few years back.
A broad base building here is a good sign, IMHO, and should
give us a sizable up move when it finally comes.
RJ has been a good source, and he feels next year is the one.
I thought last year and this would have seen a move up.
Wrong again, but keeping the faith.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:21 - ID#227238)
It's good to see you on site once again. What's on your buy list, come XAU 35???

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:26 - ID#413109)
4 Those looking for the NIKKEI
There's a holiday in Japan today 23rd Dec.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:29 - ID#370218)
Ok...the next trading day...500


(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:34 - ID#254321)
Trade mission slots sold for Democratic Party donations
tolerant1: Looks like the government attoneys have been holding up a Judical Watch for 4 years -- and now even a federal judge thinks the delaying tactics of the government ( read Commerce department ) are ludicrous.

My hat is off to Larry Klayman for his dogged persistence. Only one of many invstigations going on right now needs to surface, and WJC's reputation will falter even more.

My intuitive guess is that the Monicagate scandal has opened the door. WJC's credibility has been significanly weakened encouraging the individuals who wish to bring him to justice, as well as those who might have been too scared to testify. It is a matter of time before everything starts to unravel -- and it will unravel very swiftly when it does. Problem is -- it is hard to tell when the unraveling will occur.

I think WJC is running scared, since he is using 'attack dogs' such as Larry Flynt and James Carville -- it will probably backfire as Dick Morris said today -- WJC's fears and paranoia are making him behave much too aggressively.

All WJC needs to do now is irritate the members of the Senate the way he did the House -- which he probably will. My guess is that the speedy trial in the Senate will end when WJC refuses to cooperate. As Dick Morris has said -- all of the impeachment proceedings so far would not have been possible if WJC had admitted his affair with Monica in January.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:34 - ID#372214)
Reify explain LGB

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:35 - ID#421269)
@ Earl
You really know how to hurt a guy, xau35, ouch!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:41 - ID#30345)
Overvalued compared to what?

This guy is slamming gold stocks as overvalued, Oh boy.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:47 - ID#20359)
JTF, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I agree...the evidence is piling up and it
is so obvious that Clintler's arrogance is showing through more and more as his true personality breaks the media facsade...chip...chip...chip...

Also, have you noticed the Presidential nose looks like it is getting a very regular workout eh...

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:52 - ID#30345)
FED action calendar from businees week

next rate cut set for march they say.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:53 - ID#20359)
longj, Namaste' gulp and a puff...aside from the obvious...the fellow who wrote the
article is not much on details...its Reagan...not Reagen...details huh...

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:55 - ID#190411)
Earl, XAU 35?
It will not happen. If gold went to 250 on a dive and Donald's XAU/POG went to .18, essentially equal to the historic low, XAU would be 45.
That will not happen either.
Kaplan's getting a bit more cheerful on his site, and he has had a good record this year. I still have a bit more ammo, and will pull the trigger again, soon. I still like Anglogold and Harmony. Newmont is crushed again, and there are many more. PDG will be a powerhouse if gold becomes slightly popular, and it is hammered to the near bottom. The SA mine purchase is what will make them, rather than Getchell's property, IMHO.
I still like Anvil, Nick@C's war torn little company with the phenomenal property.
I don't think that we are lost, yet.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:57 - ID#254321)
Depleted Uranium -- or nerve gas?
sharefin: I was saddened by that Manchester Guardian post as well. The numbers of babies with missing heads -- if confirmed -- suggest birth deformities at many times the normal rates. I am familiar with slow long term effects of uranium on adults -- don't know about children. It really bothers me that no one thought about the consequences of the depleted uranium fragments and pollution of the environment. Given the very very long half-life of uranium, that part of the world will be contaminated for generations.

The birth defects may also have been generated from some weapon of mass destruction that Saddam had, as we know that an Iraqi supply dump of some kind was inadvertently detonated, although the US authorities are very reticent to talk about it. War is alway a very sad event -- as the innocent always suffer the most.

Someday I hope an informed, much wiser world population will rise up on both sides of the fence -- and refuse to wage wars altogether. No leader can wage war without the cooperation of his minions -- who do not realize how much power they have. Unfortunately the human race is far from being that educated and enlightened. All we have to do is look at our president to see how much we have yet to learn. Too bad we do not have the likes of Abraham Lincoln to help us. Another Abe Lincoln may be in the wings -- but we will no hear from him ( or her ) until we are knee -- deep in trouble of some kind.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 21:58 - ID#372214)
The Presidential Nose.larger than life.Only regular workouts can cause something like that.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:00 - ID#20359)
longj, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I can assure you that this same individual thinks
that Y2K will be nothing and that it is all hype...we shall see...

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:01 - ID#20359)
tomo, Namaste' gulp and a puff...
It is a bit obvious huh...oh yeah...

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:02 - ID#254321)
Nasal septum
tolerant1, longj: I wonder -- know anyone with a really good camera and quick hands? Now that would be news, wouldn't it? WJC has no nasal septum? Perhaps, like Pinoccio, his nose will eventually give him away.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:03 - ID#300202)
GoldMiningOutLook Screaming Buyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Hope so.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:05 - ID#372214)
This must be an ongoing process.This Presidential Nose workout.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:06 - ID#30345)
@t1 it is jaw-boning, I agree.
I don't agree with him. It just seems relevant to post the article here for critique. This is the kind of jaw-boning I was referring to last week. Platinum does not attract this kind of negative press. I guess that one reason why I think platinum will lead the metals breakout. Combined with my opinion that the Japanese will probably be the ones to precipitate it along with selling US treasuries for cash raising purposes or EuroBonds.

Could some one help me out on what the ratio ( P/CF - 26.3X ) stands for?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:09 - ID#20359)
longj, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...this quote says it all from the article...
"Firms in the industry have also not been shy about using generous assumptions about forthcoming gold prices well above $300 in valuing assets on their books."

I suppose Internet stocks along with the entire technology sector are fairly priced based on rock solid valuations...NOT!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:13 - ID#20359)
longj, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I have no clue what that equation represents
I understand your reasons in posting the article...and I agree with your thinking to a very large degree...Japan is a key factor...very key...

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:15 - ID#215235)
Steve Kaplan's column had the following emboldened heading tonight: Buy Gold and Mining Shares now. Yvan Auger's most recent post indicates that the Elliot Waves are bottoming at about 59-60 in the next few days. Doom and gloom abound on this site. Hmmmm. Maybe there is truth to the adage: "It is always darkest before the dawn." Perhaps we are about to see the rebirth of our beloved gold. In 1999 gold will shine! Amen.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:17 - ID#28939)
some technical thoughts, hope this is helpful

The rallies in gold in the past year and a half have been brief, with the meandering declines lasting longer with some sharp spikes lower to finish the pattern.

The comparison of the last four months of this year with the last four months of 97 are very striking.

First, from a cyclical standpoint both years marked a rally into early October which was brief, followed by a decline into Dec.-Jan'98

The decline of 97 was of an impulsive nature whereas the decline of this year is clearly marked by a THREE wave decline; a counter-trend move against the main trend.

Momentum measures were clearly negative a year ago at this time which explains the failed rally into April of this year followed by the re-test and slight new low in August. Momentum one year later is clearly bullish against the August lows on a weekly and monthly basis which is more important ( a better bottom is in place ) .

Finally, the Elliott wave picture is much different today than a year ago as I eluded to above. The move off the August lows was clearly impulsive and carried better mometum than the April rally which failed. The ensuing decline has taken the shape of a zig-zag or flat depending on which stocks or index you look follow..

A turning point for the precious metals complex appears to be at hand.
Whether a long term bottom is in place is too soon to tell, but it appears a rally is in the cards first.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:17 - ID#300202)
Cdn Polls
65% Canadians do not want Clinton removed. Do we have a say?
Newfoundlanders are horniest Canadians. Gone to bed anticipating a better tomorrow. Tks for the enlightened posts.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:19 - ID#30345)
@T1 Internet NO, but there are some values in the technology sector.
Anyway, the solid ones like RTP and AU *CANNOT* draw fire from ANYONE. These are solid companies with long records of succesful operation and PROVEN reserves. HE is taking pot shots. As for the technology sector their are companies with values and good earnings outlooks, but Iwould agree that in agregate they are more overvalued than the metals or commodities sectors, given the climate of hype.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:20 - ID#372214)
Early january is usually agood month for gold.Maybe better in 1999.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:22 - ID#227238)
I threw out XAU 35 in a jocular vein. ...... and then I went to look at the chart for something 'realistic'. Using stochasitics as an indicator, the gold jiggles have begun with the sto's below 20. On the weekly chart the sto's are presently at 35 and 48 with the XAU at 61. Now the question is, will the sto's/XAU reverse from this range and begin rising or will we be consigned to waiting for them to decay sub 20 again? If the latter, we aren't close yet.

The better news is that both the daily and monthly sto's are set for a little bounce. ........ Maybe I should reset the parameters for the weeklies and everything would look mo better.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:26 - ID#30345)
@caper: I would venture to say that 100% of the Iraqi's if polled
would want clintoris out of office.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:30 - ID#30345)
and out

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:33 - ID#255285)
Lots of body parts; Beer, but no blood; Tarrifs and Fraud
He said, as he plunked a bottle of Steinlager on the table in front of me "Looks like we had a case of mistaken Identity."
Now, what I didn't tell you was what he later told me of his experience. Because he and the other {soon-to-be-best-mate} were standing inside the doorway, they were elevated above me. I came up to their chests only. They told me "You can't come in" and thought that was the end of things. He felt me grab his leather jacket and saw the ground rush up to meet his chin as I dropped one over each shoulder. There was a small porch then another few steps. These guys plummetted head first several feet. He said the two of them looked at each other in disbelief as they picked themselves up from the ground. "Let's get the bstard." They said in unison and ran back inside where they grabbed me from behind and I did my impersonation of a the track of a howitzer shell to land at the feet of the polizie.

Yes I saw that article about the nascent trade war over bananas. Once trade tarrifs are raised like this, we know we are in for a repeat of every other damned depression. Always gobmints react this way. Next they'll play "Beggar Thy Neighbour" Then we'll see more of the frauds in the corporates and then individual insurance frauds. There was a scary article in the local paper yesterday. One down-on-his-luck S Korean businessman tried to commit insurance fraud. He first bought a bunch of personal accident insurance then got a "friend" to shop his feet off above the ankles in an attempt to scoop several $million. The "friend" through the feet into the river. Both the footless fella and his friend are now being sought for quesioning.
This guy hadn't thought through his devilish little plan properly. The cops even found the local chemist where our contender for the Darwin awards purchased massive amounts of pain killer just days before.

Got feet?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:38 - ID#300202)
But-are Iraqi's hornier than Newfoundlander's? I luv the typical Iraqi
T.V. demonstration. I think they only know one protest song. Off to fantasize re my former Newfoundland life. Hope to see less Kitcoite suicides in 99. WorldNetDaily is more credible than the Cape Breton Post.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:38 - ID#14785)
Clinton, weather,gold,....
And they said it wouldn't be a white Christmas! :- ) )

Snow squalls moving through the Boston area have turned the roads in to ice skating rinks. Not that Mass. drivers ever could keep their cars on the road on the best of days. :- ) )

Listening to a local talk show, a sixteen year old called up and gave his inputs on the Clinton matter. He and his classmates think that Clinton is a joke, the case is a joke, it's just partisan fighting, and most sadly, that oral sex is not sex. Yes sir! Score a big one for Clinton in the 'morals and leadership' department! I hope I never hear him talk about AIDES or 'the children' again...

As to the yellow metal... Looks like a test of the lows coming. CRB in the dumper. Oil can't get its act together in the face of Iraq and the sudden cold weather speaks volumes. Couple this with 'tax loss' selling and gold stocks don't look to good here. The problem is to know when the ball will bounce.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:42 - ID#372214)
Mickey mouse trade wars don't mean a thing.It's onlypolitical B.S..They still love each other...nes pas?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:43 - ID#300202)
But-are Iraqi's hornier than Newfoundlander's? I luv the typical Iraqi
T.V. demonstration. I think they only know one protest song. Off to fantasize re my former Newfoundland life. Hope to see less Kitcoite suicides in 99. WorldNetDaily is more credible than the Cape Breton Post.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:43 - ID#284188)
FOX-MAN--Thanks for continuing to post COMEX figures
I regularly watch these figures; thanks for posting them. I note that you haven't posted the total "eligible" vs. "registered" lately, and that there seem to have been quite a few switches in recent days, from the former to the latter. We have to be getting real low on eligibles, particularly re gold. Isn't this significant?

Could you ( or anyone ) post the total figures?

TIA, Fergie

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:45 - ID#255285)
shop till ya drop
What he actually did, this S korean businessman, was to get his friend to chop his feet off above the ankle. Musta been thinking of christmas chopping.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:46 - ID#43349)
Three events
One major -- the impeachement of the US president
One minor -- the bombing of Iraq
One hardly noticed -- the collapse of the Japanese bond market

The least of these is the most perilous.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:49 - ID#372214)

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:49 - ID#186147)
prairie butcher
JTF: your 21:57, longing for the return of Abe Lincoln to stop wars is rather like depending on WJB Clinton to stop illicit sex. Honest Abe started the bloodiest of all our wars to win a political argument he could not win on the merits, to wit: Whether the Southern States had the right to withdraw from an association with the Northern States that was freely entered into, with NO agtreement that such association would last beyond any party's desired termination. In furtherance of his illegal and immoral purposes, Mr Lincoln originated the "modern" idea of 'total warfare' against the women and children of the enemy. Lincon=peace---NOT!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:52 - ID#372214)
This will finally break the reserve currency.I hope.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:52 - ID#317193)
We watch this new BOND market together. Yes.

Nite nite


(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:54 - ID#227238)
The CRB continues to paint a grim picture. In 1998 the decline has averaged about 4 points per month. Without so much as a little jiggle along the way. If the trend is unchecked, it should be south of 135 by this time next year.

Wonder how resource nations will pay their debts to the IMF et al? Will it have any effect on western banks? Will it even matter as long as we have Yahoo and eBay? .... Sheesh, sewer city here we come. With Wacky Willy leading the way.

Who Cares?
(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:54 - ID#189232)
Donald, Earl - States Rights
I've posted it before but what the hell -

Imagine a balloon. Imagine the Federal government blowing
up the balloon ( state budget ) . Imagine the presure
getting higher and higher. Imagine that the Federal
government begins running short on funds... Then imagine
that the Feds start TAKING back some of that cash ( the
balloon starts releasing pressure ) . Determine if
state governments will be more or less willing to
participate in the Federal system. : )

(Tue Dec 22 1998 22:58 - ID#14785)
You mean there is someone else ot there that has READ a history book? :- ) )

This whole Clinton affair has taken on the characteristics of the twilight zone. He lied under oath, but it was a sex lie. ( ? ) He tried to fix a court case, but it was a 'sex' thing. In the mean time, commodities are falling and the stock market narrows. The job market is 'tight', but no one is willing to pay decent wages. Curiouser and curiouser...

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:01 - ID#255285)
au contraire, these trade wars are very serious business. Tarrifs are erected usually to protect an inefficient domestic producer infrastructure. While tarrifs may protect a sector of the domestic economy that sector will not have to make itself more competitive. The local consumers miss out on cheaper or different goods and therefore pay more to maintain an inefficient local economy.
But they have further reaching effects too. The more trade there is the more bouyant is the economy.

Tarrif, n. A scale of taxes on imports, designed to protect the domestic producer against the greed of his consumer.
Ambroce Bierce The Devil's Dictionary

A protecting duty can never be a cause of gain, but always and necessarily a loss, to the country imposing it.
John Stuart Mill

Now, how about about a round of "Beggar Thy Neighbour"

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:02 - ID#372214)
It's cold.Maybe oil will rally to $13-$14-$15.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:04 - ID#43349)
The US T bond market

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:10 - ID#255285)
au contraire, these trade wars are very serious business. Tarrifs are erected usually to protect an inefficient domestic producer infrastructure. While tarrifs may protect a sector of the domestic economy that sector will not have to make itself more competitive. The local consumers miss out on cheaper or different goods and therefore pay more to maintain an inefficient local economy.
But they have further reaching effects too. The more trade there is the more bouyant is the economy.

Tarrif, n. A scale of taxes on imports, designed to protect the domestic producer against the greed of his consumer.
Ambroce Bierce The Devil's Dictionary

A protecting duty can never be a cause of gain, but always and necessarily a loss, to the country imposing it.
John Stuart Mill

Now, how about about a round of "Beggar Thy Neighbour"

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:10 - ID#341312)
Kitco is now Y1.999K compliant!
Now if Bart could just convince his programmer to go to 4 digits. Ah well, probably the least of our worries. In other Y2K news, Boeing has announce that its payroll and pension systems are remediated AND tested. Good job! This effort took about 18 months or so. Now if they can only fix and test the rest of the corporate software portfolio in the remaining 12 months...and ferret out all those nasty shop floor embedded systems issues...and get the hub airports like Atlanta and Chicago up to speed...and knock some heads at the FAA...hmmmm...anyone want to buy some Boeing stock? Anyone? Someone? I guess not. Good company, though. I'll probably buy some myself for a few bucks a share when the "death" of commercial air travel is on the front page of Forbes. ;- )

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:11 - ID#372214)
With respect...they love each other.They need each other.This is only political B.S.This is noise for the loby groups that put them in power.Nothing will come of this.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:12 - ID#227238)
If bonds continue to head south, doesn't that increase the spread for those engaged in the dreadful business of gold lease and bond carry? Given the apparently increased pressure this would cause, wouldn't the Fed be even more solicitous of such despicable practices?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:14 - ID#43349)
Pssst! Hey Joe! You rike to buy bonds?

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:15 - ID#43349)
Once the bonds stabilize, but not while they're still going down.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:19 - ID#411251)
Write a song--Recoup your losses!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:19 - ID#43349)
Another night
Off to retire. Perchance to dream of what the Japanese will do to finance the bailing out of their banking system if selling bonds won't work. I hear they have a lot of US treasuries...

Good night.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:21 - ID#372214)
Finally gold has achance as a CB reserve currency. Thank GOD!!!!!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:23 - ID#228136)
As a Yankee transplanted to the south I knew that your words of praise for Lincoln would get someone's goat. Just the other day my neighbor and I were having a historical discussion and he referred to Lincoln as a low down no good MFin SOB. My reply was "Thats a little to long to fit onto the Illinois license plate".

Howdy Oldman!

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:23 - ID#225284)
Something A Little Different
Take a look at TIE ( Titanium Metals Corp. ) . Not a mining outfit, but still producing a product that there is no substitute for in many applications. Been beat up pretty bad by the brokerage firms and price has suffered, sound familiar? Key ratios and measures near 5 year lows. P/E of 3.6; price to book of 0.5. In today's market, that's pretty amazing stuff. There may be some more downside here due to the fact that they are heavily into aerospace contracting, but most of the fat has been cut from this pig already. The only real risk I see is that the value investor is becoming extinct and few care about fundamentals anymore. But they will. Flight to quality will be the name of the game in 1999. All that 401K money's got to go somewhere. If you still have a job, that is. All IMHO, of course.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:24 - ID#371380)
Banks and Y2K
The Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council ( FFIEC )
Questions and Answers Concerning
Year 2000 Contingency Planning

To: The Board of Directors and Chief Executive Officers of all federally
supervised financial institutions, service providers, software vendors, federal branches and agencies, senior management of each FFIEC agency, and all examining personnel.

Q.12. Can branches be temporarily closed to respond to a Year 2000 disruption without being in violation of federal or state laws, regulations, or rules?

A.12. Under section 2[42] ( formerly 2[39] ) of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Improvement Act of 1991, 12 U.S.C.  1831r-1, insured depository institutions closing branch facilities are required to follow certain procedures. However, a temporary interruption caused by a Year 2000 disruption beyond the bank's control would not be subject to the requirements, provided that the institution restores branch services in a timely manner. Financial institutions should consult with legal counsel to determine the applicability of state law to these types of situations. Management also should review its contracts with customers, in consultation with legal counsel, to determine whether temporary branch closings due to Year 2000 problems may affect financial institution obligations regarding the provision of services to these customers.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:30 - ID#401460)
Somethings never change

Who took over Chrysler? Want a M1 tank, you have to go to Germany, the maker of the Tiger tank.
Tuesday December 22, 7:27 pm Eastern Time

GM To Study Its Nazi Activities

DETROIT ( AP ) -- General ( NYSE:GM - news ) Motors Corp. has hired a Yale University professor to look into the company's activities in Nazi Germany.

The Washington Post reported earlier this month that lawyers and historians were compiling evidence for possible use in class-action lawsuits against GM and Ford on behalf of former prisoners of war.


Kitco really acting strange tonight - blinking and everthing.

(Tue Dec 22 1998 23:47 - ID#186147)
Your friend had it just about right. As a Southron who wpent entirely too many years in the North, I would never try to get a Yankee to absorb more historical fact than can be emblazoned on a license plate or a bumper sticker. The years spent being propangandized in the public schools of Yankeeland numbs the mind to the point where rational argument is quite impossible. I have never known a Yankee who could discuss the "Late Unpleasantness" we call "The War For Southern Independence" without resorting to shallow sloganeering, because all the facts are against him.
But, as has been the case in all wars throughout history, the victors write the history that is tought to the masses. Ergo, the succeding generations of the victors are the real losers, becuse the truth is forever hidden from them. But we shall never forget------

Three hundred thousand Yankees/
Lie dead in Southern dust.
We kilt three hundred thousand/
Before they conquered us.
They died from Southern fevers/
From Southern steel and shot/
I wish we'd kilt three million/
'Stead o' what we got.