Front ( 22:24 ) I wouldn't want to see the Cape Breton Women bra-less!..haha
They've been eatin too many gov. hand-outs er somethin...EBN Gold down 1.30 and "the Mailman" CHOKED...big time!...Bra-less in Cape Breton=Nightmare...

Front ( 22:24 ) I wouldn't want to see the Cape Breton Women bra-less!..haha
They've been eatin too many gov. hand-outs er somethin...EBN Gold down 1.30 and "the Mailman" CHOKED...big time!...Bra-less in Cape Breton=Nightmare...

Earl -- You certainly have that right! Besides, breaking 'laws' is just emulating what the government does so well.

Ted ( 00:00 ) Meant to say topless...was so rattled couldn't get out the right word...Whew...Hi Cherokee!

Ted ( 00:00 ) Meant to say topless...was so rattled couldn't get out the right word...Whew...Hi Cherokee!

Earl -- You certainly have that right! Besides, breaking 'laws' is just emulating what the government does so well.

Cherokee: Good to see ya back. .... It wasn't the fancy wimmin that created the excitement; it was the prospect of studded collars 'n whips 'n chains. ....... but realistically, who needs 'em when we have the gold market to stir the endorphins.

How do you feel about new crop grains. Is it too early yet? As you stand on those oft mentioned shoulders, do you see any signs of wickedly riotous reagents in the rearing belt?

Cherokee: Good to see ya back. .... It wasn't the fancy wimmin that created the excitement; it was the prospect of studded collars 'n whips 'n chains. ....... but realistically, who needs 'em when we have the gold market to stir the endorphins.

How do you feel about new crop grains. Is it too early yet? As you stand on those oft mentioned shoulders, do you see any signs of wickedly riotous reagents in the rearing belt?

FOR FASTER EASIER UPLOADING... try this. Go to ftp://ftp.kitco.com/pub/discussion by entering that in the same place on your browser where you would put a http:// address. Once there select File/Upload File.. from your broswser menu and you're done!

BRE-X DEPT: It looks like the real plan behind the Bre-X scam was to make the serious bucks by licensing the caps, T-shirts, and saltshakers!

GLENN: Congratulations on your Dow 7500 forecast! Agree with you 100% that stocks will be headed up and gold sown for the next few weeks before both markets reverse in a substantial way. Say to Dow 8000 and gold $335.

BTW, gold quite weak tonight; off 90 cents a few minutes ago. As lomg as bullion cannot respond to good news, the path of least resistance will be DOWN.

GLENN: Congratulations on your Dow 7500 forecast! Agree with you 100% that stocks will be headed up and gold sown for the next few weeks before both markets reverse in a substantial way. Say to Dow 8000 and gold $335.

BTW, gold quite weak tonight; off 90 cents a few minutes ago. As lomg as bullion cannot respond to good news, the path of least resistance will be DOWN.

FOR FASTER EASIER UPLOADING... try this. Go to ftp://ftp.kitco.com/pub/discussion by entering that in the same place on your browser where you would put a http:// address. Once there select File/Upload File.. from your broswser menu and you're done!

BRE-X DEPT: It looks like the real plan behind the Bre-X scam was to make the serious bucks by licensing the caps, T-shirts, and saltshakers!

Earl - I wouldn't get to aggressive here....if you want to play I like July in the money puts on the SPX or puts on select stocks which couldn't rally to new highs during this recent Dow rally. Once the market drops I'd be more aggressive buying puts on the retracement.

Earl - I wouldn't get to aggressive here....if you want to play I like July in the money puts on the SPX or puts on select stocks which couldn't rally to new highs during this recent Dow rally. Once the market drops I'd be more aggressive buying puts on the retracement.

Eldo: If that law comes to pass, it will be called the "Omnibus No Peek Eldo Bill of 1997". Authored, no doubt, by that paragon of respect for feminine virtue; Theodore Kennedy. Also known as Chappaquidick Ted. ....

Eldo: If that law comes to pass, it will be called the "Omnibus No Peek Eldo Bill of 1997". Authored, no doubt, by that paragon of respect for feminine virtue; Theodore Kennedy. Also known as Chappaquidick Ted. ....

Earl -- HAR! But, don't include me in that title. I'll be among the first to break it!

Earl -- HAR! But, don't include me in that title. I'll be among the first to break it!

Earl: I listen to your every word that you can count on. haha. Hi Eldo!
Now be nice to your son who hangs on pa's every utterance.

Earl: I listen to your every word that you can count on. haha. Hi Eldo!
Now be nice to your son who hangs on pa's every utterance.

Earl -- Is this so-called Earl Jr. one of your cousins or something? He seems to like us a lot! Or do you suppose he is 'one of THOSE' kind?

Earl -- Is this so-called Earl Jr. one of your cousins or something? He seems to like us a lot! Or do you suppose he is 'one of THOSE' kind?

George Cole:

As mentioned a few days ago, the momentum indicators are still diverging, on the Dow and SP500. I realize you are looking at the Russell 2000 primarily. I wish I had been capturing data for that index. Also, because a friend reentered a position in INTC on that last dip, I look at the chart several times a day, merely out of curiosity .... ( and because "I told him not to do it" ) ....... INTC as well as the SOX index both look grim. ASND, one of the stellar performers over the past 2 years is off about 20 in the last few sessions. Cold comfort. Why dint it do that a long time ago when I was short? ....... Overall; are we approaching 'tumble time'? BTW. Are you of the 'slow grind' or of the 'sharp drop' school of thought?

George Cole:

As mentioned a few days ago, the momentum indicators are still diverging, on the Dow and SP500. I realize you are looking at the Russell 2000 primarily. I wish I had been capturing data for that index. Also, because a friend reentered a position in INTC on that last dip, I look at the chart several times a day, merely out of curiosity .... ( and because "I told him not to do it" ) ....... INTC as well as the SOX index both look grim. ASND, one of the stellar performers over the past 2 years is off about 20 in the last few sessions. Cold comfort. Why dint it do that a long time ago when I was short? ....... Overall; are we approaching 'tumble time'? BTW. Are you of the 'slow grind' or of the 'sharp drop' school of thought?

Hi Uncle Eldo!

Jr.: Now concentrate on punctuation and your listlessness will become less apparent.

Jr.: Now concentrate on punctuation and your listlessness will become less apparent.

Hi Uncle Eldo!

APH: How do you view funds as a vehicle to do the bear thing? I cannot say that my use of options has been a thing of beauty and a joy to behold. And for tax deferred accounts, direct purchase of options is not an option.

APH: How do you view funds as a vehicle to do the bear thing? I cannot say that my use of options has been a thing of beauty and a joy to behold. And for tax deferred accounts, direct purchase of options is not an option.

Earl: What is punctuation PA? You should have done a better job teaching me how to read and write and be cool like you and Uncle Eldo.

Earl: What is punctuation PA? You should have done a better job teaching me how to read and write and be cool like you and Uncle Eldo.

Earl:

Agree that we are approaching trouble time for the overall market, but probably are not quite there yet. Still too many strong stocks and group. Also remember my argument that each phase of this bull market runs about half as long as the previous leg. This latest phase has lasted just 2 months; the previous leg lasted 9 months. Suggests we still have another month or two to go.

I plan to get out of all non-gold holdings by mid-July; don't like to play too close to the timeline.

But trouble time for gold stocks is now. August gold off $1.30 on modest dollar rally. Note that gold goes down sharply when the dollar rallies, but moves up little if at all when the greenback declines. That is what I call very bearish technical action. Looks like we are headed for a final washout in the the gold complex before the turn.

Bart Kitner: The BRE-X salt shaker was my idea but I'm willing to transfer rights to the Kitco Company Store at such time as it becomes a reality. .... For free, .... mostly. ..... ( :- ) )

Bart Kitner: The BRE-X salt shaker was my idea but I'm willing to transfer rights to the Kitco Company Store at such time as it becomes a reality. .... For free, .... mostly. ..... ( :- ) )

Earl:

Agree that we are approaching trouble time for the overall market, but probably are not quite there yet. Still too many strong stocks and group. Also remember my argument that each phase of this bull market runs about half as long as the previous leg. This latest phase has lasted just 2 months; the previous leg lasted 9 months. Suggests we still have another month or two to go.

I plan to get out of all non-gold holdings by mid-July; don't like to play too close to the timeline.

But trouble time for gold stocks is now. August gold off $1.30 on modest dollar rally. Note that gold goes down sharply when the dollar rallies, but moves up little if at all when the greenback declines. That is what I call very bearish technical action. Looks like we are headed for a final washout in the the gold complex before the turn.

August gold now down $1.60. The Fidelity gold funds have declined for 3 consecutive days. Another case of the stocks leading bullion lower. Would not be surprised if August gold drops $3 by tomorrow's close.

August gold now down $1.60. The Fidelity gold funds have declined for 3 consecutive days. Another case of the stocks leading bullion lower. Would not be surprised if August gold drops $3 by tomorrow's close.

Fundy ( 19:18 ) ( 19:35 ) Richard Burke ( 20:53 ) Thank you
both very much, that's what this group is about.
Not being a wise guy, when I say that Investor's Digest
of Canada's "Key Ratio for 1000 Canadian Stocks" is a
favorite. A very balanced publication, all industries
covered.
They have helped find Gulfstream Resources of Canada who
has a good interest ( 27.5% ) in the Qatar Consortium ( a
group of majors ) .
More important, are the untouched natural gas interests,
which are reputed to be extremely large.
Now all that is required, is quiet in the Persian Gulf,
plus an LNG Terminal and maybe a petrochemical complex by
a group of majors.
A tall order, see, I don't just dream about the gold
stocks.

Fundy ( 19:18 ) ( 19:35 ) Richard Burke ( 20:53 ) Thank you
both very much, that's what this group is about.
Not being a wise guy, when I say that Investor's Digest
of Canada's "Key Ratio for 1000 Canadian Stocks" is a
favorite. A very balanced publication, all industries
covered.
They have helped find Gulfstream Resources of Canada who
has a good interest ( 27.5% ) in the Qatar Consortium ( a
group of majors ) .
More important, are the untouched natural gas interests,
which are reputed to be extremely large.
Now all that is required, is quiet in the Persian Gulf,
plus an LNG Terminal and maybe a petrochemical complex by
a group of majors.
A tall order, see, I don't just dream about the gold
stocks.

RJ: Your example looks fine when you use US$ - but today's world is
filled with many options to store my wealth. Does your example look as
good when you use Yen, Marks, or the swiss Franc? These all compete
with gold as a store of wealth. Just wondering.

RJ: Your example looks fine when you use US$ - but today's world is
filled with many options to store my wealth. Does your example look as
good when you use Yen, Marks, or the swiss Franc? These all compete
with gold as a store of wealth. Just wondering.

ted butler... re yours of 09.49....You stated that gold has physically been transferred onto the markets via lease agreements. Do you contend that gold has moved from Fort Knox or other US central bank depositories onto the market? If so, how much or what percentage of the central banks total gold supply is now in promises to return agreements?

ted butler... re yours of 09.49....You stated that gold has physically been transferred onto the markets via lease agreements. Do you contend that gold has moved from Fort Knox or other US central bank depositories onto the market? If so, how much or what percentage of the central banks total gold supply is now in promises to return agreements?

Auric - ( 01:30 ) - Ah... But you have called my bluff. No way would I take that wager, charity notwithstanding. How about my goal of "$335 half a dozen times before $400 once? I do believe all the metals are due for a substantial move in the next two years. Gold may go for the ride, but silver and the PGMs will lead the way. I am basically bearish on gold in the next few months, to the tune of 1.8 million short @ $348 & 350. I Did 5000 oz from $348 to $338.5 a couple months ago. Wished I had taken $339.5 last week, but my mind was on the PGMs and it happened so quick. There hasnt been enough of a rally to re-short, so I guess Im happy I stayed in. I think it was Eldorado who thought I might be trying to convince members of the group to short. I am making no trade recommendations. I am only describing my views. Besides, if we all ganged up, sold the houses and the kids, and put every penny we had into short gold, we wouldnt make a ripple in the market. Thats why the PGMs are so fun, the market is thin enough to move. Even silver can be bounced around for a few tens of millions, Not gold, the market is too massive. Only the CBs have the power to move the market significantly. Correction, 40 or 50 million American citizens with a like amount of Asian and European nationals could push gold through the roof.


It is precisely these great unwashed masses that are missing from this market. The equities have stolen their hearts and the romance has a ways to go yet. I, with the rest, called for a true correction in the equities when the Dow was 5000, and then 6000. A 10% drop from 7000 and strong recovery has made me a believer. Please dont take that statement to mean that I will buy into it. These lofty heights make my nose bleed. Hell, I felt more comfortable buying palladium at $204 than I would buying the Dow, NASDAQ, or S & P, at these levels. But, although self contradictory, I too believe the Dow will go to 8K, perhaps even 10K in the next 18 months. We are in the era of irrational exuberance and the sodomites will not come up for air.

The mutual fund market is more than 3 trillion strong, 2 of which came into the market since 1990. How many funds are there now? 7000, 8000? Ive given up trying to keep track. The funds managers are so flush with cash, and more in pouring in every month. I viewed the 4 - 5 billion per week rise in money markets a year or so ago as a sign that people were getting nervous, converting to cash. Dividend ratios had dipped below 3%, normally a strong signal of a turnaround. What happened next? The Dow broke through 6K. Was that only last October? Its seems an eternity.

I now wonder if there is a great sell off, where will the cash go? Historically some has always gone to the metals and particularly gold, but gold has lost its allure for the 90s American investor. These people fancy themselves savvy investors for making 30% last year. Believe me, I take calls from these people. They are congratulating themselves on the astute analysis when a blind lemur with dirt on his nose could have pointed out 30% on any financial page. Just invest in the smudges. The refrain of "Im in it for the long term, if it drops Ill just buy more", can be heard in a great chorus across this land. Will it continue? I think so. Now, we are seeing increased interest in US equities, primarily from Europe, and Hong Kong. The reasons for this have already been addressed by others here, so I will defer.

The Question begs to be asked Where will this money go? Where can it go? There is simply to much $ and not enough investment vehicles. I never thought I would write anything like this. Were I to read these words 5 years ago I would have given a derisive snort and sent the writer away to wipe the hope off those rose colored glasses. Have we reached the day when 70 to 80 times prices to earning is considered normal, healthy? Is this irrational exuberance, or have we moved to a new era? I simply dont know, we are in uncharted seas. All this weighs heavily on gold, and saps its funding. The longer this exuberance lasts, the more distant the primal tug of gold on the spirits of those that touted its virtues only a decade ago

. We now must speak of the psychology of gold. What is the feeling? Outside of this particular peer group, I mean. I receive calls every day from people who want to buy gold. The first question I ask is always, why? This is not meant to be a challenge, I truly want to know the belief system that compels their call. Apart from the occasional NRA, Republic of Texas ( yes I have sold to even them ) , apocalyptic doomsayers, I hear almost no clear cut or deeply held belief in gold. "Oh, Ive always wanted some, and I thought I might find out about it." Or, "well, my dad always believed in gold, and I have some extra cash, so I thought I would buy some." Or, "I thought Id get some gold in case the stock market drops". Are you worried about a drop, I ask. "no, but it cant hurt to have some." I will sell gold for delivery to these and others.

Often I run into investers who wants to make profits in gold. I usually try to point them towards silver or platinum for profits as they almost invariably out perform gold in a rising market. The potential from profits is greater. As I have stated earlier, unless I am selling for delivery - which, if a person owns no gold, I always encourage - I use gold primarily as a short vehicle. In a falling market its protection is great, and in a rising market, the gold short looses less than the others gain. Gold is my platinum and silver condom. It protects me, It cradles me, it sings in my ear, and strokes my hair. Gold will hear my deepest thoughts and never, ever hold it against me when I sell it short. The way things have been going lately, its nice to get out sometimes.

Make no mistake I will leverage gold long, but only in a moving market. Why wait in gold when there is movement in silver? Besides a dark and ugly cloud seems to be over gold, and until that lifts, I will not fight it, I will use it.

Last year Central Banks sold more than 1700 metric tons of gold. Some was bank to bank but most was on the open market. Expectations of at least 1000 MTs in 1997 are very real. The longer these sales are held off, the more the market dreads the day they are sure will come. Now we are hearing rumblings about "revaluation of gold stores" coming from the Germans and Swiss. If the big four in Europe - Germany - France - Switzerland - Great Britain - sell any gold at all, we will see $320 - $325, possibly $300. The Russians are no longer a threat. I believe their gold is gone long ago to raise hard cash. An interesting aside, received on the COMEX last year; platinum with pictures of the Czar on the bars. 80 - 90 year old platinum. Is this the bottom of the barrel, or simply pillaged platinum from ex party members who have set up their various fiefdoms?

What about Bre-X? A very real expectation of 71 million ounces of gold was just taken off the market! Where is the reaction? That should have been good for $20, short term at least

What about the phenomenal rise of palladium, usually the forecaster of things to come. Look for platinum to follow in 4 - 6 weeks, with gold and silver hot on its heels a month or so later. We have seen many runs begin this way. I thought we were onto one in February but it was very anemic and failed completely. The PGMs in the last eight weeks should have roped gold and, willing or not, dragged it to $375 - $380. What did we get? A great short opportunity at $350. Gold is in a coma.

What about the recent drop in the dollar? Metals are dollar dominated what has happened to all that extra buying power? Where is it. Gold is a redheaded stepchild now and will remain so for the next few months.

I expect gold will test recent lows $336 - $338 in the next 3 - 4 weeks. If a small rally comes and fails again at $350, we will see $325. Thats my take on it. perhaps the only bullish factor, other than big equities correction, or further substantial drop in the dollar, is what I believe to be the start of a really sweet run in platinum. I Called for over $500 platinum within the month at$402. We hit $506 in London, but I didnt get any part of that. Best I did was sell some in the 70s and buy some more in the 50s and 40s. Im out of palladium for good. Let it go to $300 - it has a very good shot at it - it will go without men. My holdings are down to 500 oz and those will be gone at the next $225.

Gold may catch a ride, but in a market like this, Ill take the leaders, silver and platinum. The profits are in these and they dont bite too hard.

I hope this answered some questions for Eldorado. Next: why the western world wont collapse. Maybe next week sometime.

RJD
June 1997

Auric - ( 01:30 ) - Ah... But you have called my bluff. No way would I take that wager, charity notwithstanding. How about my goal of "$335 half a dozen times before $400 once? I do believe all the metals are due for a substantial move in the next two years. Gold may go for the ride, but silver and the PGMs will lead the way. I am basically bearish on gold in the next few months, to the tune of 1.8 million short @ $348 & 350. I Did 5000 oz from $348 to $338.5 a couple months ago. Wished I had taken $339.5 last week, but my mind was on the PGMs and it happened so quick. There hasnt been enough of a rally to re-short, so I guess Im happy I stayed in. I think it was Eldorado who thought I might be trying to convince members of the group to short. I am making no trade recommendations. I am only describing my views. Besides, if we all ganged up, sold the houses and the kids, and put every penny we had into short gold, we wouldnt make a ripple in the market. Thats why the PGMs are so fun, the market is thin enough to move. Even silver can be bounced around for a few tens of millions, Not gold, the market is too massive. Only the CBs have the power to move the market significantly. Correction, 40 or 50 million American citizens with a like amount of Asian and European nationals could push gold through the roof.


It is precisely these great unwashed masses that are missing from this market. The equities have stolen their hearts and the romance has a ways to go yet. I, with the rest, called for a true correction in the equities when the Dow was 5000, and then 6000. A 10% drop from 7000 and strong recovery has made me a believer. Please dont take that statement to mean that I will buy into it. These lofty heights make my nose bleed. Hell, I felt more comfortable buying palladium at $204 than I would buying the Dow, NASDAQ, or S & P, at these levels. But, although self contradictory, I too believe the Dow will go to 8K, perhaps even 10K in the next 18 months. We are in the era of irrational exuberance and the sodomites will not come up for air.

The mutual fund market is more than 3 trillion strong, 2 of which came into the market since 1990. How many funds are there now? 7000, 8000? Ive given up trying to keep track. The funds managers are so flush with cash, and more in pouring in every month. I viewed the 4 - 5 billion per week rise in money markets a year or so ago as a sign that people were getting nervous, converting to cash. Dividend ratios had dipped below 3%, normally a strong signal of a turnaround. What happened next? The Dow broke through 6K. Was that only last October? Its seems an eternity.

I now wonder if there is a great sell off, where will the cash go? Historically some has always gone to the metals and particularly gold, but gold has lost its allure for the 90s American investor. These people fancy themselves savvy investors for making 30% last year. Believe me, I take calls from these people. They are congratulating themselves on the astute analysis when a blind lemur with dirt on his nose could have pointed out 30% on any financial page. Just invest in the smudges. The refrain of "Im in it for the long term, if it drops Ill just buy more", can be heard in a great chorus across this land. Will it continue? I think so. Now, we are seeing increased interest in US equities, primarily from Europe, and Hong Kong. The reasons for this have already been addressed by others here, so I will defer.

The Question begs to be asked Where will this money go? Where can it go? There is simply to much $ and not enough investment vehicles. I never thought I would write anything like this. Were I to read these words 5 years ago I would have given a derisive snort and sent the writer away to wipe the hope off those rose colored glasses. Have we reached the day when 70 to 80 times prices to earning is considered normal, healthy? Is this irrational exuberance, or have we moved to a new era? I simply dont know, we are in uncharted seas. All this weighs heavily on gold, and saps its funding. The longer this exuberance lasts, the more distant the primal tug of gold on the spirits of those that touted its virtues only a decade ago

. We now must speak of the psychology of gold. What is the feeling? Outside of this particular peer group, I mean. I receive calls every day from people who want to buy gold. The first question I ask is always, why? This is not meant to be a challenge, I truly want to know the belief system that compels their call. Apart from the occasional NRA, Republic of Texas ( yes I have sold to even them ) , apocalyptic doomsayers, I hear almost no clear cut or deeply held belief in gold. "Oh, Ive always wanted some, and I thought I might find out about it." Or, "well, my dad always believed in gold, and I have some extra cash, so I thought I would buy some." Or, "I thought Id get some gold in case the stock market drops". Are you worried about a drop, I ask. "no, but it cant hurt to have some." I will sell gold for delivery to these and others.

Often I run into investers who wants to make profits in gold. I usually try to point them towards silver or platinum for profits as they almost invariably out perform gold in a rising market. The potential from profits is greater. As I have stated earlier, unless I am selling for delivery - which, if a person owns no gold, I always encourage - I use gold primarily as a short vehicle. In a falling market its protection is great, and in a rising market, the gold short looses less than the others gain. Gold is my platinum and silver condom. It protects me, It cradles me, it sings in my ear, and strokes my hair. Gold will hear my deepest thoughts and never, ever hold it against me when I sell it short. The way things have been going lately, its nice to get out sometimes.

Make no mistake I will leverage gold long, but only in a moving market. Why wait in gold when there is movement in silver? Besides a dark and ugly cloud seems to be over gold, and until that lifts, I will not fight it, I will use it.

Last year Central Banks sold more than 1700 metric tons of gold. Some was bank to bank but most was on the open market. Expectations of at least 1000 MTs in 1997 are very real. The longer these sales are held off, the more the market dreads the day they are sure will come. Now we are hearing rumblings about "revaluation of gold stores" coming from the Germans and Swiss. If the big four in Europe - Germany - France - Switzerland - Great Britain - sell any gold at all, we will see $320 - $325, possibly $300. The Russians are no longer a threat. I believe their gold is gone long ago to raise hard cash. An interesting aside, received on the COMEX last year; platinum with pictures of the Czar on the bars. 80 - 90 year old platinum. Is this the bottom of the barrel, or simply pillaged platinum from ex party members who have set up their various fiefdoms?

What about Bre-X? A very real expectation of 71 million ounces of gold was just taken off the market! Where is the reaction? That should have been good for $20, short term at least

What about the phenomenal rise of palladium, usually the forecaster of things to come. Look for platinum to follow in 4 - 6 weeks, with gold and silver hot on its heels a month or so later. We have seen many runs begin this way. I thought we were onto one in February but it was very anemic and failed completely. The PGMs in the last eight weeks should have roped gold and, willing or not, dragged it to $375 - $380. What did we get? A great short opportunity at $350. Gold is in a coma.

What about the recent drop in the dollar? Metals are dollar dominated what has happened to all that extra buying power? Where is it. Gold is a redheaded stepchild now and will remain so for the next few months.

I expect gold will test recent lows $336 - $338 in the next 3 - 4 weeks. If a small rally comes and fails again at $350, we will see $325. Thats my take on it. perhaps the only bullish factor, other than big equities correction, or further substantial drop in the dollar, is what I believe to be the start of a really sweet run in platinum. I Called for over $500 platinum within the month at$402. We hit $506 in London, but I didnt get any part of that. Best I did was sell some in the 70s and buy some more in the 50s and 40s. Im out of palladium for good. Let it go to $300 - it has a very good shot at it - it will go without men. My holdings are down to 500 oz and those will be gone at the next $225.

Gold may catch a ride, but in a market like this, Ill take the leaders, silver and platinum. The profits are in these and they dont bite too hard.

I hope this answered some questions for Eldorado. Next: why the western world wont collapse. Maybe next week sometime.

RJD
June 1997

I have done no hstorical studies on forien curency affect on gold. OI have, however, A yen / platinum chart that is almost earie. As goes the Yen, so goes platinum. Will someone explain how I might post these charts

I have done no hstorical studies on forien curency affect on gold. OI have, however, A yen / platinum chart that is almost earie. As goes the Yen, so goes platinum. Will someone explain how I might post these charts

RJ: About this time of night the site is pretty much left to us late-night West-coasters. With the markets opening at 5:30 AM our time, when do you ever sleep? Anyway, I for one, have geatly enjoyed and benefitted from your postings and am delighted that you're such an active part of the site. ( Glad you resolved the tiff with Front. I e-mail him frequently and he's one of the nicest guys you could ever hope to meet! ) My question to you is this: What specific signs would you look for to confirm a gold price breakdown where a person in my position might unhedge a bit to the short side? I actually have had genarally better success with shorting but as my equity has gotten somewhat stretched tight ( relieved a bit now by PA and PL ) , unhedging the gold becomes a tricky call. I personally have no particular attachment to gold, except for the little bit I keep in the safe, and so would far sooner make a profit on the larger amount I have in storage and then turn that over into silver. I really appreciate any advice you might have.

RJ: About this time of night the site is pretty much left to us late-night West-coasters. With the markets opening at 5:30 AM our time, when do you ever sleep? Anyway, I for one, have geatly enjoyed and benefitted from your postings and am delighted that you're such an active part of the site. ( Glad you resolved the tiff with Front. I e-mail him frequently and he's one of the nicest guys you could ever hope to meet! ) My question to you is this: What specific signs would you look for to confirm a gold price breakdown where a person in my position might unhedge a bit to the short side? I actually have had genarally better success with shorting but as my equity has gotten somewhat stretched tight ( relieved a bit now by PA and PL ) , unhedging the gold becomes a tricky call. I personally have no particular attachment to gold, except for the little bit I keep in the safe, and so would far sooner make a profit on the larger amount I have in storage and then turn that over into silver. I really appreciate any advice you might have.

.............CHANGE..$1.00.........LOW...HIGH...AVRG

1977........6.8%.....$1.07............127....168.....148
1978........9.0%.....$1.16............167....245.....206
1979........13.1%...$1.32............463....825.....644
1981........8.9%.....$1.61............389....597.....493
1982........3.9%.....$1.68............298....486.....392
1983........3.8%.....$1.74............373....510.....442
1984........4.0%.....$1.81............307....405.....356
1985........3.8%.....$1.88............282....349.....316
1986........1.1%.....$1.90............327....443.....385
1987........4.4%.....$1.98............389....502.....446
1988........4.4%.....$2.07............392....487.....440
1989........4.7%.....$2.17............356....419.....388
1990........6.1%.....$2.30............346....425.....386
1991........3.1%.....$2.37............341....403.....372
1992........2.9%.....$2.44............328....362.....345
1993........2.7%.....$2.51............325....414.....370
1994........2.7%.....$2.57............372....401.....387
1995 .......2.7%.....$2.64............371....398.....385
1996........2.7%.....$2.72............368....417.....393


AVRG........5.1%.....$0.36............327....439.....383

...........................................GOLD AVERAGES

.............CHANGE..$1.00.........LOW...HIGH...AVRG

1977........6.8%.....$1.07............127....168.....148
1978........9.0%.....$1.16............167....245.....206
1979........13.1%...$1.32............463....825.....644
1981........8.9%.....$1.61............389....597.....493
1982........3.9%.....$1.68............298....486.....392
1983........3.8%.....$1.74............373....510.....442
1984........4.0%.....$1.81............307....405.....356
1985........3.8%.....$1.88............282....349.....316
1986........1.1%.....$1.90............327....443.....385
1987........4.4%.....$1.98............389....502.....446
1988........4.4%.....$2.07............392....487.....440
1989........4.7%.....$2.17............356....419.....388
1990........6.1%.....$2.30............346....425.....386
1991........3.1%.....$2.37............341....403.....372
1992........2.9%.....$2.44............328....362.....345
1993........2.7%.....$2.51............325....414.....370
1994........2.7%.....$2.57............372....401.....387
1995 .......2.7%.....$2.64............371....398.....385
1996........2.7%.....$2.72............368....417.....393


AVRG........5.1%.....$0.36............327....439.....383

...........................................GOLD AVERAGES

STRAD - I can make no recommendations for you. As you already know, there is a conflict of interest between us. Your broker is a colleague of mine. Ethics forbid. My postings should describe my opinion. I'm sorry, buy we had this communication B4. General philosophy maybe. No Strategy. You sound like a gentleman, good luck.

STRAD - I can make no recommendations for you. As you already know, there is a conflict of interest between us. Your broker is a colleague of mine. Ethics forbid. My postings should describe my opinion. I'm sorry, buy we had this communication B4. General philosophy maybe. No Strategy. You sound like a gentleman, good luck.

Maybe $340 by friday. I'm still looking for $336 - $338

Maybe $340 by friday. I'm still looking for $336 - $338

RJ: With EBN showing gold off 2.10 are you about to take some profits? Enjoyed your June 12 03:12 post. Appreciate your thinking, even tho I do not always agree.

RJ: With EBN showing gold off 2.10 are you about to take some profits? Enjoyed your June 12 03:12 post. Appreciate your thinking, even tho I do not always agree.

EBN Gold down 2.10 and Silver down 3 cents....but it is a beautiful sunny day on the ocean....Front: Tomorrow is TGIF.....Mooney: Get to work! Hi Tort...and Panda!

EBN Gold down 2.10 and Silver down 3 cents....but it is a beautiful sunny day on the ocean....Front: Tomorrow is TGIF.....Mooney: Get to work! Hi Tort...and Panda!

How many have missed the entire bull-market in non PM stocks by thinkin doom+gloom...Last night the Hang Seng was down 497 ( 3.45% ) and it looks like the bubble is bursting in that IMPORTANT market...Mornin MGraves!

How many have missed the entire bull-market in non PM stocks by thinkin doom+gloom...Last night the Hang Seng was down 497 ( 3.45% ) and it looks like the bubble is bursting in that IMPORTANT market...Mornin MGraves!

Hi TED -- A most interesting board at the EBN site. Every commodity is up EXCEPT gold and silver! What's wrong with this picture? BTW, why doesn't anyone want to play on the Globex today/last night?????

Hi TED -- A most interesting board at the EBN site. Every commodity is up EXCEPT gold and silver! What's wrong with this picture? BTW, why doesn't anyone want to play on the Globex today/last night?????

RJ -- Perhaps we'll see that 338 number Friday. Regarding that very long posting, I'd simply like to say that when a gold trader basically asks what good is gold, it kind of makes me wonder about the traders' veracity should 'things' in paper of various kinds get 'interesting'. I would really hate to see someone be on the wrong side of 'that' trade! As a percentage move, silver will certainly out-perform anything gold can do! That was a great posting! Thanks!

RJ -- Perhaps we'll see that 338 number Friday. Regarding that very long posting, I'd simply like to say that when a gold trader basically asks what good is gold, it kind of makes me wonder about the traders' veracity should 'things' in paper of various kinds get 'interesting'. I would really hate to see someone be on the wrong side of 'that' trade! As a percentage move, silver will certainly out-perform anything gold can do! That was a great posting! Thanks!

Mornin Ted : The seagull dropped a tomato on ya!!! Too nice a day for this old puter , see ya later !!!

Mornin Ted : The seagull dropped a tomato on ya!!! Too nice a day for this old puter , see ya later !!!

RJ: A move to 335 ( or thereabouts ) in gold would put the price on the support line one could draw connecting the '85 and '93 bottoms. A case could be made that we have already done that at 340 ish, and that time/space aberration on the long-term chart has compensated. In any event, I do agree that "equities have stolen the hearts of the masses." My credo at this juncture is "I'm in it for the long term - if it drops I'll buy some more." Physical gold that is. I do think this is probably the contrarian year. Glad you enjoyed the laffs.

RJ: A move to 335 ( or thereabouts ) in gold would put the price on the support line one could draw connecting the '85 and '93 bottoms. A case could be made that we have already done that at 340 ish, and that time/space aberration on the long-term chart has compensated. In any event, I do agree that "equities have stolen the hearts of the masses." My credo at this juncture is "I'm in it for the long term - if it drops I'll buy some more." Physical gold that is. I do think this is probably the contrarian year. Glad you enjoyed the laffs.

CHEROKEE: Your 23:58 should be the frontispiece for "The collected Works of Kitco." Happy stalking, warrior.

CHEROKEE: Your 23:58 should be the frontispiece for "The collected Works of Kitco." Happy stalking, warrior.

RJ: Agree with you that gold's technical action is terrible and that new lows are likely very soon. But I still believe this is the final washout in a brutal bear market that will reverse in a major way when stocks top out for good and fears about the health of the financial system escalate.

If the stock market drops a few thousand points and gold still cannot mount a powerful and sustained rally, then I for one will concede that perhaps the yellow stuff is dead for the foreseeable future. I would place the odds of such a scenario at about one in ten.

RJ: Agree with you that gold's technical action is terrible and that new lows are likely very soon. But I still believe this is the final washout in a brutal bear market that will reverse in a major way when stocks top out for good and fears about the health of the financial system escalate.

If the stock market drops a few thousand points and gold still cannot mount a powerful and sustained rally, then I for one will concede that perhaps the yellow stuff is dead for the foreseeable future. I would place the odds of such a scenario at about one in ten.

RT: Re XAU chart - optimistically, next major resistance on upside is 130-135 within 1 1/2 - 2 months. Beyond that, we've got something going. If it turns down from there, we get new lows into the winter for the final bottom. FUNDY: Wed:13:44 "Awaiting the Event." This IS the event. You said prior to 1935 gold was worth 20.67 for 100 years. THAT is the point. Since '35 every nation on earth has been off specie convertible currency. This is the first Kondratieff Wave in history where no national treasury or currency has any tie to gold. Inflation is endemic and chronic. It can only be so when there is no way to check unrestrained currency and credit creation.That is why I say that in 1934 gold began a 150 year bull market that will not crest until the entire monetary structure of the past century is washed away and replaced. The first of 5 waves was from '34 to '80. The wave 2 correction has been unfolding since then. Wave 3 will begin in '98. But this is a long, drawn-out affair, so you can continue to make plans for the weekend. The ups & downs will be fun though.

RT: Re XAU chart - optimistically, next major resistance on upside is 130-135 within 1 1/2 - 2 months. Beyond that, we've got something going. If it turns down from there, we get new lows into the winter for the final bottom. FUNDY: Wed:13:44 "Awaiting the Event." This IS the event. You said prior to 1935 gold was worth 20.67 for 100 years. THAT is the point. Since '35 every nation on earth has been off specie convertible currency. This is the first Kondratieff Wave in history where no national treasury or currency has any tie to gold. Inflation is endemic and chronic. It can only be so when there is no way to check unrestrained currency and credit creation.That is why I say that in 1934 gold began a 150 year bull market that will not crest until the entire monetary structure of the past century is washed away and replaced. The first of 5 waves was from '34 to '80. The wave 2 correction has been unfolding since then. Wave 3 will begin in '98. But this is a long, drawn-out affair, so you can continue to make plans for the weekend. The ups & downs will be fun though.

It will be interesting to note whether the Chinese step in below 340 again, assuming we drop below 340.

It will be interesting to note whether the Chinese step in below 340 again, assuming we drop below 340.

RJ Many thanks for your well reasoned post of 03:12 and your CPI 04:35. You are what I felt we were missing, a good view from another perspective. I agree that it is the missing masses that have sapped the strength of the gold market by their absence along with CB sales. Until gold regains some of its charm with the common investor it will languish. Of course this can all change very quickly with a crisis of any substance. In any case, I find your unbiased market sense refreshing, even sobering, and hope you will be a long time poster here at kitco. I also think you are real smart since I moved most of my PM stocks into silver yesterday ( !: ) )

RJ Many thanks for your well reasoned post of 03:12 and your CPI 04:35. You are what I felt we were missing, a good view from another perspective. I agree that it is the missing masses that have sapped the strength of the gold market by their absence along with CB sales. Until gold regains some of its charm with the common investor it will languish. Of course this can all change very quickly with a crisis of any substance. In any case, I find your unbiased market sense refreshing, even sobering, and hope you will be a long time poster here at kitco. I also think you are real smart since I moved most of my PM stocks into silver yesterday ( !: ) )

I received the following E-mail today from Larry Parks

ject:
The BIS is worried about system risk too
Date:
Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:38:40 -0400
From:
LPARKS@FAME.ORG
To:
lparks@FAME.ORG



Bank of International Settlements: Liberalised markets 'threaten
stability of payment systems'
TUESDAY JUNE 10 1997

By Wolfgang Mnchau in Basle

The trend for liberalised financial markets is becoming a serious threat
to the stability of global payment systems, the Bank for International
Settlements warned yesterday.

The BIS, the umbrella organisation of the world's central banks, said in
its 1996 annual report, published yesterday, that "familiar shortcomings
observed in liberalised banking markets" caused greater concern than the
spread of derivative instruments.

"While we have not yet experienced the economic losses that might be
associated with a major failure in payment systems, which now routinely
process several trillion dollars' worth of payments a day, a few close
calls in recent decades were wake-up calls as well," it said. "Violent
asset price swings, generated by excessive credit expansion, often, but
not always, accompanied by generalised inflationary pressures and
capital inflows, have been a major source of recent turbulence.

"Weak governance of financial institutions, both internal and external,
has also been a common problem."

The BIS was particularly concerned about the ability of the financial
sector to respond to a possible downturn in asset prices.

The Japanese Big Bang in 1996, the erosion of US restrictions separating
commercial and investment banking and preparations by European
financial institutions for European monetary union "all imply that
competitive pressures will intensify further and that financial
restructuring is far from over".

The bank suggested that even a small tightening of US monetary policy
could have a severe effect on financial markets.

It said the greatest risks to the world economy were related to
"irrational exuberance" in financial markets, structural reform in
European labour markets and possible market turbulence before economic
and monetary union.

The cautious tone was reflected in the annual meeting yesterday,
attended
by about 100 central bank governors.

The BIS acknowledged that the prospect for medium-term economic growth
in the world economy remained favourable, an assessment that is also
shared by other international institutions, notably the International
Monetary Fund.

But the BIS's overall outlook is markedly more cautious: "Just as it
would be premature to declare inflation dead, it would also be unwise to
assume that sound fundamentals guarantee good performance in the near
term."

Perhaps the most pressing concern is that inflationary pressure in the
US
may soon prove more difficult to tame than expected and the expansion
may end abruptly.

Even a "soft landing" which demanded a series of tightening measures
might have significant implications for equity prices and other more
risky investments, the BIS said in its report.

Mr Andrew Crockett, general manager of the BIS, said: "The fact that
asset prices are on the increase, when inflation is low, is something to
reflect on."

Bank for International Settlements

I received the following E-mail today from Larry Parks

ject:
The BIS is worried about system risk too
Date:
Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:38:40 -0400
From:
LPARKS@FAME.ORG
To:
lparks@FAME.ORG



Bank of International Settlements: Liberalised markets 'threaten
stability of payment systems'
TUESDAY JUNE 10 1997

By Wolfgang Mnchau in Basle

The trend for liberalised financial markets is becoming a serious threat
to the stability of global payment systems, the Bank for International
Settlements warned yesterday.

The BIS, the umbrella organisation of the world's central banks, said in
its 1996 annual report, published yesterday, that "familiar shortcomings
observed in liberalised banking markets" caused greater concern than the
spread of derivative instruments.

"While we have not yet experienced the economic losses that might be
associated with a major failure in payment systems, which now routinely
process several trillion dollars' worth of payments a day, a few close
calls in recent decades were wake-up calls as well," it said. "Violent
asset price swings, generated by excessive credit expansion, often, but
not always, accompanied by generalised inflationary pressures and
capital inflows, have been a major source of recent turbulence.

"Weak governance of financial institutions, both internal and external,
has also been a common problem."

The BIS was particularly concerned about the ability of the financial
sector to respond to a possible downturn in asset prices.

The Japanese Big Bang in 1996, the erosion of US restrictions separating
commercial and investment banking and preparations by European
financial institutions for European monetary union "all imply that
competitive pressures will intensify further and that financial
restructuring is far from over".

The bank suggested that even a small tightening of US monetary policy
could have a severe effect on financial markets.

It said the greatest risks to the world economy were related to
"irrational exuberance" in financial markets, structural reform in
European labour markets and possible market turbulence before economic
and monetary union.

The cautious tone was reflected in the annual meeting yesterday,
attended
by about 100 central bank governors.

The BIS acknowledged that the prospect for medium-term economic growth
in the world economy remained favourable, an assessment that is also
shared by other international institutions, notably the International
Monetary Fund.

But the BIS's overall outlook is markedly more cautious: "Just as it
would be premature to declare inflation dead, it would also be unwise to
assume that sound fundamentals guarantee good performance in the near
term."

Perhaps the most pressing concern is that inflationary pressure in the
US
may soon prove more difficult to tame than expected and the expansion
may end abruptly.

Even a "soft landing" which demanded a series of tightening measures
might have significant implications for equity prices and other more
risky investments, the BIS said in its report.

Mr Andrew Crockett, general manager of the BIS, said: "The fact that
asset prices are on the increase, when inflation is low, is something to
reflect on."

Bank for International Settlements

MGraves: Haven't looked at the garden yet to see if frost struck...Kill dem cut worms!...Panda: Sunny and 70 degrees ( F ) is today's forcast and throw in a gentle sea breeze and ya got nirvana...Gotta go to the big city and deposit some dividend checks and you can't beat the U.S/Canadian exchange rate...The Canadian Dollar vis-a vis the U.S.Buck is a BUY!

MGraves: Haven't looked at the garden yet to see if frost struck...Kill dem cut worms!...Panda: Sunny and 70 degrees ( F ) is today's forcast and throw in a gentle sea breeze and ya got nirvana...Gotta go to the big city and deposit some dividend checks and you can't beat the U.S/Canadian exchange rate...The Canadian Dollar vis-a vis the U.S.Buck is a BUY!

George S. Cole: People have been talking and talking about irrational exuberance in the financial markets for years and years...Is my large stake in XON at risk??? Are they goin to go under...Better hurry up and cash that dividend check!

George S. Cole: People have been talking and talking about irrational exuberance in the financial markets for years and years...Is my large stake in XON at risk??? Are they goin to go under...Better hurry up and cash that dividend check!

TED -- Fair warning! I'm going to buy some of dem stox, ya know, dem go-go kind. Dat'll fix da markets! Look what I done ta gold! ;- ) )

TED -- Fair warning! I'm going to buy some of dem stox, ya know, dem go-go kind. Dat'll fix da markets! Look what I done ta gold! ;- ) )

RJ, ALL: I know I had fun with the concept of "anecdotal" platitudes about gold the other day, but I have a deep reverence for anecdotal evidence in the markets. Let me tell a true story. In mid '89 I got bullish on gold and silver, and built a leveraged bullion position for myself that started to go sour as the metals turned down. I won't go into the details of my folly, but suffice it to say that by '91,'92 I was getting my you-know-what kicked. I finally had to cry uncle and sell out. It was the worst shellacking I had ever taken in the markets. I had been right in the mid '70's when I loaded up for a long-term play on silver bullion, but now I was in the pits. I was walking out of my office building on Third Avenue in Manhattan one winter afternoon after my crushing defeat, and the lobby was bustling with construction scaffolds and workers. They had installed a new magnificent marble floor and a triple-domed ceiling. A glint of something somehow familiar caught my eye as it floated through the echoing space. Then another. Somehow, without even having to think, I knew it was gold. I looked up. They were gold-leafing the ENTIRE ceiling! I stood there, transfixed, as people rushed by me in and out. It was snowing gold flakes indoors, and as the building doors opened and closed the flakes were blowing out into the street. Slushy boots were grinding those noble flakes into the grimy wet New York City streets. Nobody but me seemed to know or care. I thought "My God, they are painting the ceiling with it!" No greater sacrilege could I imagine. And then it hit me! This was the bottom of the gold market! It was time to plan a comeback campaign. I worked myself slowly into position for the '93 rally, and thanks to a fortuitous interpretation of Sunshine Mining's horoscope, I recaptured some of my lost confidence and funds in that advance. Sometimes the good clues are not in the statistics, and spreadsheets, and price charts. Or even the horoscopes. Sometimes it's a no-brainer like folks painting the damn ceiling with gold that wakes you up. Watch the balcony at the NYSE! Carefully. When the bough breaks, the cradle will fall, and down will come market, cradle and all.

RJ, ALL: I know I had fun with the concept of "anecdotal" platitudes about gold the other day, but I have a deep reverence for anecdotal evidence in the markets. Let me tell a true story. In mid '89 I got bullish on gold and silver, and built a leveraged bullion position for myself that started to go sour as the metals turned down. I won't go into the details of my folly, but suffice it to say that by '91,'92 I was getting my you-know-what kicked. I finally had to cry uncle and sell out. It was the worst shellacking I had ever taken in the markets. I had been right in the mid '70's when I loaded up for a long-term play on silver bullion, but now I was in the pits. I was walking out of my office building on Third Avenue in Manhattan one winter afternoon after my crushing defeat, and the lobby was bustling with construction scaffolds and workers. They had installed a new magnificent marble floor and a triple-domed ceiling. A glint of something somehow familiar caught my eye as it floated through the echoing space. Then another. Somehow, without even having to think, I knew it was gold. I looked up. They were gold-leafing the ENTIRE ceiling! I stood there, transfixed, as people rushed by me in and out. It was snowing gold flakes indoors, and as the building doors opened and closed the flakes were blowing out into the street. Slushy boots were grinding those noble flakes into the grimy wet New York City streets. Nobody but me seemed to know or care. I thought "My God, they are painting the ceiling with it!" No greater sacrilege could I imagine. And then it hit me! This was the bottom of the gold market! It was time to plan a comeback campaign. I worked myself slowly into position for the '93 rally, and thanks to a fortuitous interpretation of Sunshine Mining's horoscope, I recaptured some of my lost confidence and funds in that advance. Sometimes the good clues are not in the statistics, and spreadsheets, and price charts. Or even the horoscopes. Sometimes it's a no-brainer like folks painting the damn ceiling with gold that wakes you up. Watch the balcony at the NYSE! Carefully. When the bough breaks, the cradle will fall, and down will come market, cradle and all.

Mike Sheller That was a great anecdote! Sometimes the best answers are not in the charts, stars, etc but right in front of our noses! If your head had been down in total despair you might have missed those "floating"indicators! Your posts are an inspiration, keep looking up!

Mike Sheller That was a great anecdote! Sometimes the best answers are not in the charts, stars, etc but right in front of our noses! If your head had been down in total despair you might have missed those "floating"indicators! Your posts are an inspiration, keep looking up!

With more data like this, we will hit 6.6% on the long bond. Besides, the 'new' currency is stox, not cash or gold..... :- ) )

08:37 US RETAIL SALES FOR MAY DOWN 0.1%; DURABLE GOODS SALES -0.4%.
08:35 US NEW JOBLESS CLAIMS UP 1,000 AT 339,000 IN LATEST WEEK.
08:32 MAY RETAIL SALES -0.1%; EX-AUTOS -0.1%.
08:31 U.S. JOBLESS CLAIMS UP 1,000 TO 339,000 WEEK ENDING JUNE 7.

With more data like this, we will hit 6.6% on the long bond. Besides, the 'new' currency is stox, not cash or gold..... :- ) )

08:37 US RETAIL SALES FOR MAY DOWN 0.1%; DURABLE GOODS SALES -0.4%.
08:35 US NEW JOBLESS CLAIMS UP 1,000 AT 339,000 IN LATEST WEEK.
08:32 MAY RETAIL SALES -0.1%; EX-AUTOS -0.1%.
08:31 U.S. JOBLESS CLAIMS UP 1,000 TO 339,000 WEEK ENDING JUNE 7.

Morning Ted, fellow suffers all. I enjoyed Mike Sheller's parable this morning and I certainly can relate. Given my recent experiences in the market I post the following:

Two commodity brokers were driving down a country road at high speed and passed a pickup truck with an old couple inside. "Look at those fools, pa! Must be a couple of commodity brokers and they will surely meet their maker soon, I tell you."

Well, sure enough, a little while later the couple comes across a bad accident involving the two happless brokers.

"Well maw, we got to do what any good folk would do and give em a decent burial. So the couple dug a hole and buried the brokers. Just as they were putting their tools away, a cop drives up.

"You folks see this accident?"

"No sir, but we knew them dang fools were going to have it when they passed us doing a hunert miles an hour. Well, we finally come across the accident and gave them commodity brokers a decent burial"

"Are you were sure that they were dead??"

"Well, they said they weren't, but you know how those commodity brokers exaggerate and lie!"

Morning Ted, fellow suffers all. I enjoyed Mike Sheller's parable this morning and I certainly can relate. Given my recent experiences in the market I post the following:

Two commodity brokers were driving down a country road at high speed and passed a pickup truck with an old couple inside. "Look at those fools, pa! Must be a couple of commodity brokers and they will surely meet their maker soon, I tell you."

Well, sure enough, a little while later the couple comes across a bad accident involving the two happless brokers.

"Well maw, we got to do what any good folk would do and give em a decent burial. So the couple dug a hole and buried the brokers. Just as they were putting their tools away, a cop drives up.

"You folks see this accident?"

"No sir, but we knew them dang fools were going to have it when they passed us doing a hunert miles an hour. Well, we finally come across the accident and gave them commodity brokers a decent burial"

"Are you were sure that they were dead??"

"Well, they said they weren't, but you know how those commodity brokers exaggerate and lie!"

RJ:
I have read some of your thoughts ( and activities ) in the metals
markets. Very clear and well thought out writing. Anyone that has used your approach to viewing and investing in this area has been right for some number of years! But do the buyers of gold use this approach?
I have to also look at this story from a different slant.
Every last ounce of gold that was ever mined was purchased,
either as jewelry or some form of bullion.
It seems that the CBs picked up most of what they have prior to 1970.
Even back then that amounted to only about 1/3 of all gold. Individuals
worldwide, owned in one form or another all of the rest. It also seems
that, net/net the CBs have stayed a little less than even over the last 26 years. So, did not individuals buy all of the gold mined over this period?
Yes they did pay many different prices for it but, they bought it all! And they still have it! Granted it does move from one hand to another as
the price changes but nowhere can I find that they changed the stuff back
to ore and sold it to the good earth?? Also, and for reasons Im not sure of, they are still buying all that can be produced and then some! Think about it, the dam stuff pays no interest, has been the worst investment you can think of, has no future as money in this society and they still cant get enough??
We all think of $300.00 an oz. as something special but when it crossed
$200.00 the last time, everyone knew it would be back to $100 very soon!
Yet over the next 17+/- years the world purchased every ounce at $100 +
higher??? Seems whenever someone wants to sell the real thing because
its going to $200 there is always a ready buyer. Could it be that the small gold buyers and holders of the world ( unlike us investors ) dont look at it as an investment? Doesnt the last 26 years of gold buying history make this more like the truth? When you think about it most small traders sell the futures ( paper ) and still keep a few ounces in the vault while the big boys move nothing but paper gold ( all kinds, you name it they sell it ) and never hold metal.
As a person walks thru his house does he not look at all of his possessions as wealth? The TV, pictures, carpet, car, etc. are not looked at as an investment but what you own. Perhaps the last few decades have shown that the worldwide perception of gold has changed. It is now more viewed as part of something you own , as in wealth and not money.
Could it be that today investors are trying to make something out of gold that it is not and gold buyers are making something out of it that it is??!!
Could it also be that the buyers, out of no intention of there own, may break the big gold traders? I guess time will soon tell as it always does.

regards

RJ:
I have read some of your thoughts ( and activities ) in the metals
markets. Very clear and well thought out writing. Anyone that has used your approach to viewing and investing in this area has been right for some number of years! But do the buyers of gold use this approach?
I have to also look at this story from a different slant.
Every last ounce of gold that was ever mined was purchased,
either as jewelry or some form of bullion.
It seems that the CBs picked up most of what they have prior to 1970.
Even back then that amounted to only about 1/3 of all gold. Individuals
worldwide, owned in one form or another all of the rest. It also seems
that, net/net the CBs have stayed a little less than even over the last 26 years. So, did not individuals buy all of the gold mined over this period?
Yes they did pay many different prices for it but, they bought it all! And they still have it! Granted it does move from one hand to another as
the price changes but nowhere can I find that they changed the stuff back
to ore and sold it to the good earth?? Also, and for reasons Im not sure of, they are still buying all that can be produced and then some! Think about it, the dam stuff pays no interest, has been the worst investment you can think of, has no future as money in this society and they still cant get enough??
We all think of $300.00 an oz. as something special but when it crossed
$200.00 the last time, everyone knew it would be back to $100 very soon!
Yet over the next 17+/- years the world purchased every ounce at $100 +
higher??? Seems whenever someone wants to sell the real thing because
its going to $200 there is always a ready buyer. Could it be that the small gold buyers and holders of the world ( unlike us investors ) dont look at it as an investment? Doesnt the last 26 years of gold buying history make this more like the truth? When you think about it most small traders sell the futures ( paper ) and still keep a few ounces in the vault while the big boys move nothing but paper gold ( all kinds, you name it they sell it ) and never hold metal.
As a person walks thru his house does he not look at all of his possessions as wealth? The TV, pictures, carpet, car, etc. are not looked at as an investment but what you own. Perhaps the last few decades have shown that the worldwide perception of gold has changed. It is now more viewed as part of something you own , as in wealth and not money.
Could it be that today investors are trying to make something out of gold that it is not and gold buyers are making something out of it that it is??!!
Could it also be that the buyers, out of no intention of there own, may break the big gold traders? I guess time will soon tell as it always does.

regards

Can someone enlighten me? What is the HUI index? What does it measure?
Where is it traded?

Can someone enlighten me? What is the HUI index? What does it measure?
Where is it traded?

student -- The HUI index is an instrument for the inducement of great amounts of pain in ones self. Particularly with regards to ones personal finances. That being said, the HUI is the Amex Gold bugs index. It is comprised of unhedged gold producers. Read more about it at http://www.amex.com/options/intro.htm#s_index But don't say I didn't warn you! :- ) )

student -- The HUI index is an instrument for the inducement of great amounts of pain in ones self. Particularly with regards to ones personal finances. That being said, the HUI is the Amex Gold bugs index. It is comprised of unhedged gold producers. Read more about it at http://www.amex.com/options/intro.htm#s_index But don't say I didn't warn you! :- ) )

AAA -- There is a lot in what you say. Even though the price of gold has dropped, there has been no decrease in demand. In fact, given numbers posted by various organizations, just the opposite! Just given the greater demand than new supplies being mined eventually puts it into crucial shortages. That, in and of itself, is just a matter of time. Who knows at this time how much the CBs have already loaned out? Maybe they are at or close to the point where no more is available. Are the governments actually going to continue selling gold? Maybe and maybe not. There does seem to be a few questions with fewer ready answers. Also, there are many other possible scenarios that can cause it to skyrocket. Don't need all that paper coming home to roost for that to happen.

There has been a lot of good food for thought on here the last few days. Just because I haven't been posting doesn't mean I haven't been watching. MIKE SHELLER...Good story. Have you ever been to Atlanta ?? The entire exterior of the dome of the capital building is covered with leaf gold. Is it ever bright in the sunshine. RJ.... I have printed several of your posts over the past couple of days to really study at a later time. Some of your rationale is very clearly evidenced in the news every day. I appreciate your posts and will respond to parts of them some day. TED....I still hear the call from Scaterie and Oak.....

There has been a lot of good food for thought on here the last few days. Just because I haven't been posting doesn't mean I haven't been watching. MIKE SHELLER...Good story. Have you ever been to Atlanta ?? The entire exterior of the dome of the capital building is covered with leaf gold. Is it ever bright in the sunshine. RJ.... I have printed several of your posts over the past couple of days to really study at a later time. Some of your rationale is very clearly evidenced in the news every day. I appreciate your posts and will respond to parts of them some day. TED....I still hear the call from Scaterie and Oak.....

AAA -- There is a lot in what you say. Even though the price of gold has dropped, there has been no decrease in demand. In fact, given numbers posted by various organizations, just the opposite! Just given the greater demand than new supplies being mined eventually puts it into crucial shortages. That, in and of itself, is just a matter of time. Who knows at this time how much the CBs have already loaned out? Maybe they are at or close to the point where no more is available. Are the governments actually going to continue selling gold? Maybe and maybe not. There does seem to be a few questions with fewer ready answers. Also, there are many other possible scenarios that can cause it to skyrocket. Don't need all that paper coming home to roost for that to happen.

Mike Sheller: "the cradle will fall, and down will come market, cradle and all." Sheer poetry. That was a magnificent piece.

Mike Sheller: "the cradle will fall, and down will come market, cradle and all." Sheer poetry. That was a magnificent piece.

student -- You may need this to see the option blurb...

http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html

Download a free copy of Adobe Acrobat....

student -- You may need this to see the option blurb...

http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html

Download a free copy of Adobe Acrobat....

All: For those with an interest in options. The Dec 98 400 calls continue to be a bargain for those who wish to pursue them. I put in a bid at $370 earlier this week and was filled this morning. With gold continuing to look soft, a bid of $300 would look like a good possibility.

PANDA.....I needed the chuckle I got from your description of the HUI...That part could, however also describe several contracts and indicies....

PANDA.....I needed the chuckle I got from your description of the HUI...That part could, however also describe several contracts and indicies....

All: For those with an interest in options. The Dec 98 400 calls continue to be a bargain for those who wish to pursue them. I put in a bid at $370 earlier this week and was filled this morning. With gold continuing to look soft, a bid of $300 would look like a good possibility.

For days like these, I offer this live view from the summit of Mt. Washington, N.H. Try it!

http://www.mountwashington.org/mtw_camera.htm

For days like these, I offer this live view from the summit of Mt. Washington, N.H. Try it!

http://www.mountwashington.org/mtw_camera.htm

Nailz: Do you live in Atlanta?...I used to live on Buford Hwy. in N.E. Atlanta....Scaterie looks beautiful today...

Nailz: Do you live in Atlanta?...I used to live on Buford Hwy. in N.E. Atlanta....Scaterie looks beautiful today...

Nick and Yvon

Thanks for answering my call. I truly thought that I was talking and nobody could hear. The information is exactly what I needed and the web site is now a favourite to be fully explored Thanks again.

Another possible scenario for gold: Movement recently in the August is from 341.60 to 347.60 for a six dollar move. 66% retracement, as Dr Doom has pointed out is golds typical retracement, is equal to 4 dollars for a low of 343.60. Todays low ( at least so far ) .

Another possible scenario for gold: Movement recently in the August is from 341.60 to 347.60 for a six dollar move. 66% retracement, as Dr Doom has pointed out is golds typical retracement, is equal to 4 dollars for a low of 343.60. Todays low ( at least so far ) .

Nick and Yvon

Thanks for answering my call. I truly thought that I was talking and nobody could hear. The information is exactly what I needed and the web site is now a favourite to be fully explored Thanks again.

Hi Panda!...Ain't Mt.Washington pretty!..Re- ( 8:43 ) It's nice to see someone following the news and not just wishful thinkin...DOW up 67...Long Bond up 30 ticks with yield @ 6.76%...Comex Gold down 1.20, Platinum down 9.80, and Palladium down 8.50...XAU down 1.03....Dow now up 73....

Hi Panda!...Ain't Mt.Washington pretty!..Re- ( 8:43 ) It's nice to see someone following the news and not just wishful thinkin...DOW up 67...Long Bond up 30 ticks with yield @ 6.76%...Comex Gold down 1.20, Platinum down 9.80, and Palladium down 8.50...XAU down 1.03....Dow now up 73....

Front: I had a brutal day driving to the bank and back...must have seen at least ten other cars on the drive and my nerves are shot!...Keep tellin meself...slow down...slow down...and smell the roses...Time for a little ocean kayaking and loon watchin...Hope yer day has been a little less HECTIC...on the river...

Bart: I tried your ftp URL. With Netscape 3.0, here is what I got:
"Current directory is /pub/discussion
Up to higher level directory"

There was no file to be found for uploading.
You may need to set the file permissions for world read access.

Bart: I tried your ftp URL. With Netscape 3.0, here is what I got:
"Current directory is /pub/discussion
Up to higher level directory"

There was no file to be found for uploading.
You may need to set the file permissions for world read access.

Front: I had a brutal day driving to the bank and back...must have seen at least ten other cars on the drive and my nerves are shot!...Keep tellin meself...slow down...slow down...and smell the roses...Time for a little ocean kayaking and loon watchin...Hope yer day has been a little less HECTIC...on the river...

Novice: Got your missile...thanks!...Will be back in yer face after the ocean adventure...No blackflies "out there"....Howdy Tort: Did I get the right broker??...Irrational exuberance LIVES....

Novice: Got your missile...thanks!...Will be back in yer face after the ocean adventure...No blackflies "out there"....Howdy Tort: Did I get the right broker??...Irrational exuberance LIVES....

Anyone: I'm looking for a goldbug vaccine. The bug casued
me to sell G @ 44 two years ago. Also, I sold CLX @ 67.
I also fell under the spell of Alan Abelson. Now I'm loaded
up to the gills in gold mutual funds and stocks. Only a
severe case of goose bumps prevented me from jumping on
Bre-X at around 200.

I wanted to buy the blue chips last month but I couldn't rid
myself of the bug. It is worse than a tick. Chiggers I don't
mind. I lost thousands on HM alone but still I buy. I
have my last will and testament instructions not to sell my
gold stocks untill spot gold hits 500 as I may not live
long enough to see it.

Faith, the evidence of things not seen...

Anyone: I'm looking for a goldbug vaccine. The bug casued
me to sell G @ 44 two years ago. Also, I sold CLX @ 67.
I also fell under the spell of Alan Abelson. Now I'm loaded
up to the gills in gold mutual funds and stocks. Only a
severe case of goose bumps prevented me from jumping on
Bre-X at around 200.

I wanted to buy the blue chips last month but I couldn't rid
myself of the bug. It is worse than a tick. Chiggers I don't
mind. I lost thousands on HM alone but still I buy. I
have my last will and testament instructions not to sell my
gold stocks untill spot gold hits 500 as I may not live
long enough to see it.

Faith, the evidence of things not seen...

RJ: I assumed by posting on a public forum where we are both anonymous and ALL could benefit from your answer, any conflict of interest problems would be mitigated. Had I not e-mailed you and had you not figured out that you work at my brokerage, no such problem would exist. Whatever you write is still your ( experienced ) opinion and so subject to my own flawed scrutiny. Nevertheless, I understand and will desist from any further questions and will try to glean what I can from your postings.

RJ: I assumed by posting on a public forum where we are both anonymous and ALL could benefit from your answer, any conflict of interest problems would be mitigated. Had I not e-mailed you and had you not figured out that you work at my brokerage, no such problem would exist. Whatever you write is still your ( experienced ) opinion and so subject to my own flawed scrutiny. Nevertheless, I understand and will desist from any further questions and will try to glean what I can from your postings.

DocDuke -- Once you are in the directory, click on File ( your browser ) , then click on Upload file. A directory box will appear. Then select the file that you wish to upload. Click on Open, or double click on the file, and it's on its merry way.

DocDuke -- Once you are in the directory, click on File ( your browser ) , then click on Upload file. A directory box will appear. Then select the file that you wish to upload. Click on Open, or double click on the file, and it's on its merry way.

EARL: That option can be had for under $300

EARL: That option can be had for under $300

TED.... Atlanta is about 4 hours away from me.....Interesting you lived out on the Buford Highway. I used to live out there, too. My father worked on the dam at Buford and we lived in a little community called Sugar Hill...That was about 1955....I have friends and business occasionally in Atlanta so I go there several times a year. Next week in fact....

TED.... Atlanta is about 4 hours away from me.....Interesting you lived out on the Buford Highway. I used to live out there, too. My father worked on the dam at Buford and we lived in a little community called Sugar Hill...That was about 1955....I have friends and business occasionally in Atlanta so I go there several times a year. Next week in fact....

RJ: One further point. ( Please believe me when I say I'm not arguing with you on this I just am throwing this out as a question of interest that has occureed to me as result of our recent dialogue. ) My wife is a doctor. It is common if not expected that when a diagnosis is made that the patient gets a second opinion - if not a third and fourth. In fact, my wife insists upon it. In this case, where thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars are involved, why is it that if I, the client ( patient ) seek a "second opinion" it is considered a breech of ethics? Why doesn't our brokerage make that sort of thing available to it's clients? After all, isn't it the goal of the company to make as much money for it's clients as possible and thereby facilitate long-term relationships? Perhaps others might care to respond, too?

RJ: One further point. ( Please believe me when I say I'm not arguing with you on this I just am throwing this out as a question of interest that has occureed to me as result of our recent dialogue. ) My wife is a doctor. It is common if not expected that when a diagnosis is made that the patient gets a second opinion - if not a third and fourth. In fact, my wife insists upon it. In this case, where thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars are involved, why is it that if I, the client ( patient ) seek a "second opinion" it is considered a breech of ethics? Why doesn't our brokerage make that sort of thing available to it's clients? After all, isn't it the goal of the company to make as much money for it's clients as possible and thereby facilitate long-term relationships? Perhaps others might care to respond, too?

ALL....Anybody else looking to short the XAU here ??????

ALL....Anybody else looking to short the XAU here ??????

NAILZ: I will not be shorting the XAU here, although it probably will go lower. Risk/reward ratio VERY unattractive unless you believe bullion is headed for another steep plunge. Better shorting opportunities elsewhere.

With the Dow Industrials continuing to advance relentlessly with hardly a respite and the smaller stocks stalling out, the market looks like it will peak earlier than my original late summer target date. The first half of July seems the best bet at this time. Gold should start doing much better about then. The current washout still has further to go though. Look for a downside breakout below $340 that may carry as low as $335, and then a big reversal up.

NAILZ: I will not be shorting the XAU here, although it probably will go lower. Risk/reward ratio VERY unattractive unless you believe bullion is headed for another steep plunge. Better shorting opportunities elsewhere.

With the Dow Industrials continuing to advance relentlessly with hardly a respite and the smaller stocks stalling out, the market looks like it will peak earlier than my original late summer target date. The first half of July seems the best bet at this time. Gold should start doing much better about then. The current washout still has further to go though. Look for a downside breakout below $340 that may carry as low as $335, and then a big reversal up.

Jack: Investor's Digest tipped me off to the probable rise in Canadian banks in the 1990-91 period ( did not think to memorize the specific issue ) . All of the major banks have done very well with some in the teens at that time now hitting their head on $60.

Jack: Investor's Digest tipped me off to the probable rise in Canadian banks in the 1990-91 period ( did not think to memorize the specific issue ) . All of the major banks have done very well with some in the teens at that time now hitting their head on $60.

Let the buyer beware. You pays your money you takes your chances.

Let the buyer beware. You pays your money you takes your chances.

I heard that, Brah! I got the bug too; caught it in 1980 and
haven't shaken it since. I lost a wife ( at least partly because of )
and much money due to my obsession with the yellow and white stuffs.
I don't know if I can take it much longer. My philosophy now, which
I admit will be hard to stick to, is to accumulate cash positions
and just let my current metals/stock holdings ride for the long haul.
Just wait, I'll get a metals newsletter tonight touting the next
"real Bre-X". What's a fool to do?

I heard that, Brah! I got the bug too; caught it in 1980 and
haven't shaken it since. I lost a wife ( at least partly because of )
and much money due to my obsession with the yellow and white stuffs.
I don't know if I can take it much longer. My philosophy now, which
I admit will be hard to stick to, is to accumulate cash positions
and just let my current metals/stock holdings ride for the long haul.
Just wait, I'll get a metals newsletter tonight touting the next
"real Bre-X". What's a fool to do?

BART & PANDA:

The "upload file" is available in NETSCAPE only.... What do the unwashed with MS EXPLORER do?

TTFN

BART & PANDA:

The "upload file" is available in NETSCAPE only.... What do the unwashed with MS EXPLORER do?

TTFN

BART & PANDA:

The "upload file" is available in NETSCAPE only.... What do the unwashed with MS EXPLORER do?

TTFN

BART & PANDA:

The "upload file" is available in NETSCAPE only.... What do the unwashed with MS EXPLORER do?

TTFN

I'll find out later tonight... I have both, explorer came with NT 4.0, but I don't use it.

I'll find out later tonight... I have both, explorer came with NT 4.0, but I don't use it.

Whhhooppps! That last one was for Front.

Whhhooppps! That last one was for Front.

BOB A: Thanks for the comment. Please forgive me though, but I don't see how it relates to the question.

BOB A: Thanks for the comment. Please forgive me though, but I don't see how it relates to the question.

e: Stock Market- "To the moon, Alice !!!"

e: Stock Market- "To the moon, Alice !!!"

StradMaster ... If I couldn't be sure that my broker was working for me ( and by broker I mean everyone in the office ) I'd fire the SOB. What, now if there's breaking news, you shouldn't hear because there may be a conflict of interest? Conflict to money in the bank they mean...Your Money, Their Bank !!! Get rid of the bums if they won't help!

StradMaster ... If I couldn't be sure that my broker was working for me ( and by broker I mean everyone in the office ) I'd fire the SOB. What, now if there's breaking news, you shouldn't hear because there may be a conflict of interest? Conflict to money in the bank they mean...Your Money, Their Bank !!! Get rid of the bums if they won't help!

Nailz: Small world...eh...I lived there 1968-1969....DOW only up 115! What gives....XAU down .77 ...what gives...

Nailz: Small world...eh...I lived there 1968-1969....DOW only up 115! What gives....XAU down .77 ...what gives...

RJ, All

I'm interested in obtaining metal. What, in YOUR PROFESSIONAL opinion, is the path of least resistance and/or preferred method. All options & opinions welcome from other sources as well. Please respond to the e-mail address posted here, if possible....

RJ, All

I'm interested in obtaining metal. What, in YOUR PROFESSIONAL opinion, is the path of least resistance and/or preferred method. All options & opinions welcome from other sources as well. Please respond to the e-mail address posted here, if possible....

The sky is falling The sky is falling!

The sky is falling The sky is falling!

The posts on this site over the last two weeks have been excellent. This place can be amazing.

George S. Cole: I dunno about the Dow fizzling anytime soon. The 5 minute chart of this steamroller does not look like it's going to stop any time soon. It could hit 8200 by July but I suspect we may see 10,000 by Sept unless this chart starts getting sicker soon.

http://fast.quote.com/fq/geocities/chart?symbols=$INDU&time_period=5-minute%20Bars&bars=420?wstype=480%20x%20360%20GIF&chart_type=Close%20Only&colors=Black%25%252C%20Green%20on%20Transparent&vol=Volume&study=Exponential%20moving%20average&ma_period=50&key=

The posts on this site over the last two weeks have been excellent. This place can be amazing.

George S. Cole: I dunno about the Dow fizzling anytime soon. The 5 minute chart of this steamroller does not look like it's going to stop any time soon. It could hit 8200 by July but I suspect we may see 10,000 by Sept unless this chart starts getting sicker soon.

http://fast.quote.com/fq/geocities/chart?symbols=$INDU&time_period=5-minute%20Bars&bars=420?wstype=480%20x%20360%20GIF&chart_type=Close%20Only&colors=Black%25%252C%20Green%20on%20Transparent&vol=Volume&study=Exponential%20moving%20average&ma_period=50&key=

Vieserre: Dec 98 400 calls under $300?? ...Aaaargh. In this climate, the bids *cannot* be too ridiculous. Take your first thought and reduce it by at least 50 bucks. ..... But imagine, someone is willing to allow you to watch the price of gold for a period of almost 18 months for less than $3.00 an oz. ...... They are convinced that they will never have to perform. Either by normal market action or default.

Vieserre: Dec 98 400 calls under $300?? ...Aaaargh. In this climate, the bids *cannot* be too ridiculous. Take your first thought and reduce it by at least 50 bucks. ..... But imagine, someone is willing to allow you to watch the price of gold for a period of almost 18 months for less than $3.00 an oz. ...... They are convinced that they will never have to perform. Either by normal market action or default.

GEORGE.....We are basically singing off the same page of music. I am expecting a drop in gold a little lower than you are...That drop carring the XAU down to the mid or low 90s.....APH... you there....What do you think ????

GUNRUNNER: Buy Inco! Stock symbol=N

GUNRUNNER: Buy Inco! Stock symbol=N

GEORGE.....We are basically singing off the same page of music. I am expecting a drop in gold a little lower than you are...That drop carring the XAU down to the mid or low 90s.....APH... you there....What do you think ????

Panda: Thanks for the info. I appreciate the warning and especially the humor. I feel no further need for self-induced pain. With what the stock market and the gold market are doing to me, I need no further self-induced pain- at least for a little while, anyway.

Panda: Thanks for the info. I appreciate the warning and especially the humor. I feel no further need for self-induced pain. With what the stock market and the gold market are doing to me, I need no further self-induced pain- at least for a little while, anyway.

Recent quote from Sir.John Templeton "I have never been smart enough to predict the future course of markets"!

Recent quote from Sir.John Templeton "I have never been smart enough to predict the future course of markets"!

Nailz: I vote with you on the XAU. Looking at it seriously, a few minutes ago, it certainly looks like it is setting up to retest the low 90s again. ........ Aaaah, if this were easy, little girls would be doing it.... who knows they may be doing now and much better. ... ( :- ) )

Nailz: I vote with you on the XAU. Looking at it seriously, a few minutes ago, it certainly looks like it is setting up to retest the low 90s again. ........ Aaaah, if this were easy, little girls would be doing it.... who knows they may be doing now and much better. ... ( :- ) )

Comex gold down 2.20;silver down 3.5 cents;platinum down 9.80; and palladium down 1.50 DOW up 119!

Comex gold down 2.20;silver down 3.5 cents;platinum down 9.80; and palladium down 1.50 DOW up 119!

Watching the gold market today makes me want to break out in nursery verse reciting Jack and Jill. The trouble is that neither gold ( Jack ) nor silver ( Jill ) wants to go up the hill but they seem to have both fallen down and broken their crowns without the necessity. Now then, how about Humpty Dumpty--he too had a great fall. Where are those king's horses and men that we need to put this market together again. All I can say is bah bah yellow sheep.

Watching the gold market today makes me want to break out in nursery verse reciting Jack and Jill. The trouble is that neither gold ( Jack ) nor silver ( Jill ) wants to go up the hill but they seem to have both fallen down and broken their crowns without the necessity. Now then, how about Humpty Dumpty--he too had a great fall. Where are those king's horses and men that we need to put this market together again. All I can say is bah bah yellow sheep.

Tort: Ixnay on the allfay word. : )

Tort: Ixnay on the allfay word. : )

My overall opinion of brokers of any kind is that they are salesman first , therefore I say let the buyer beware.

My overall opinion of brokers of any kind is that they are salesman first , therefore I say let the buyer beware.

Sorry to disappoint you guys but the gold leaf that you see in many buildings is not gold at all but anodized aluminum leaf. Most of this material comes from Europe, is quite inexpensive and looks like gold. Nobody could afford the real stuff for this particular use.
In spite of this detail, Mike Sheller's story was beautifully written and I also enjoyed reading it.

Sorry to disappoint you guys but the gold leaf that you see in many buildings is not gold at all but anodized aluminum leaf. Most of this material comes from Europe, is quite inexpensive and looks like gold. Nobody could afford the real stuff for this particular use.
In spite of this detail, Mike Sheller's story was beautifully written and I also enjoyed reading it.

Nailz: Further to my post last night, with abx showing no volume, gcq7 back under 245.50, Kaplan gold/xau differential stilll under 250, Deaner's warning for today happening, I also feel XAU will be down into the low 90s again. I have been in four gold stocks which have good leverage against the xau for the past month and came out this afternoon at close to breakeven including commissions. I'l try again later.

Nailz: Further to my post last night, with abx showing no volume, gcq7 back under 245.50, Kaplan gold/xau differential stilll under 250, Deaner's warning for today happening, I also feel XAU will be down into the low 90s again. I have been in four gold stocks which have good leverage against the xau for the past month and came out this afternoon at close to breakeven including commissions. I'l try again later.

Nailz - Still looking for the XAU to go under 97, but it maybe a slow drift down. No punch in Fsagx again, i suspect the strong Dow is keeping the Xau up today. Stopped out of my S&P puts, reversed and bought the calls, using a trailing stop. This Dow is like trading soybeans in a weather market.

DOCDUKE: The File/Upload File... is from your Netscape menu. YOU choose the file on your computer to upload TO Kitco. It's fun and easy.

Anyone: I am familiar with Silver Standard Resources as a silver stock play. What others are worth looking at? Also platinum stocks?

Anyone: I am familiar with Silver Standard Resources as a silver stock play. What others are worth looking at? Also platinum stocks?

DOCDUKE: The File/Upload File... is from your Netscape menu. YOU choose the file on your computer to upload TO Kitco. It's fun and easy.

Nailz - Still looking for the XAU to go under 97, but it maybe a slow drift down. No punch in Fsagx again, i suspect the strong Dow is keeping the Xau up today. Stopped out of my S&P puts, reversed and bought the calls, using a trailing stop. This Dow is like trading soybeans in a weather market.

Let's see, if there are 250 trading days in the year and we assume a 1.5% increase in the Dow each day ( completely reasonable! ) . For every dollar you put in, you would get back $41.35 at the end of the year. I can hear you nay sayers now. Forget about the expansion of the money supply! Nobody is ever gonna sell! We'll all be rich! :- ) ) :- ) ) :- ) )

Let's see, if there are 250 trading days in the year and we assume a 1.5% increase in the Dow each day ( completely reasonable! ) . For every dollar you put in, you would get back $41.35 at the end of the year. I can hear you nay sayers now. Forget about the expansion of the money supply! Nobody is ever gonna sell! We'll all be rich! :- ) ) :- ) ) :- ) )

Speaking of money supply. How has it been doing
lately?

Speaking of money supply. How has it been doing
lately?

Bullion down $2.40 today but XAU and HUI up slightly. We shall see who leads who.

Still see this market as in the final blowoff stage. Great for those who get out in time, but very painful for anybody caught without a chair when the music stops. Widespread expectations of Dow 10,000 not likely to be realized. When the market peaked at 2700 back in 1987 two months before the crash "everybody" thought the Dow would hit 3000 before trouble developed.

Bullion down $2.40 today but XAU and HUI up slightly. We shall see who leads who.

Still see this market as in the final blowoff stage. Great for those who get out in time, but very painful for anybody caught without a chair when the music stops. Widespread expectations of Dow 10,000 not likely to be realized. When the market peaked at 2700 back in 1987 two months before the crash "everybody" thought the Dow would hit 3000 before trouble developed.

An anecdote: had lunch with a German-Canadian friend today, just back from Deutschland and a meeting of the family business there. North America looks quite good investment-wise to certain Europeans, at least. Helmut Kohl and his ideas of European Monetary Union are not at all popular with her contacts. After handing East Germany a very generous 1 DM for each 2 ( practically worthless ) East German marks a few years back, they are not at all thrilled about the prospect of joining several European financial basket-cases in a watery EMU. Thus, a substantial part of her DMs have been used to buy US$$ and US investments. And, There was no mention of gold....

An anecdote: had lunch with a German-Canadian friend today, just back from Deutschland and a meeting of the family business there. North America looks quite good investment-wise to certain Europeans, at least. Helmut Kohl and his ideas of European Monetary Union are not at all popular with her contacts. After handing East Germany a very generous 1 DM for each 2 ( practically worthless ) East German marks a few years back, they are not at all thrilled about the prospect of joining several European financial basket-cases in a watery EMU. Thus, a substantial part of her DMs have been used to buy US$$ and US investments. And, There was no mention of gold....

Mee toooo! Are there any good silver stocks worth looking at?? Gold seems to be in a strong state of MANIPULATION ...does silver look any better??

Thanks

Mee toooo! Are there any good silver stocks worth looking at?? Gold seems to be in a strong state of MANIPULATION ...does silver look any better??

Thanks

Panda ( 16:07 ) Now yer talkin....George S. Cole: I didn't sell a share in 1987 either...and here I am...right on the ocean!...With most of portfolio in D.R.I.P. just ended up with more shares when "the crash" happened...Is the world goin to come to and end...this time??

Panda ( 16:07 ) Now yer talkin....George S. Cole: I didn't sell a share in 1987 either...and here I am...right on the ocean!...With most of portfolio in D.R.I.P. just ended up with more shares when "the crash" happened...Is the world goin to come to and end...this time??

Novice: Let's not be rational...

Novice: Let's not be rational...

ONLOOKER and BOB A: I don't want us to all get bent out of shape here. My question to RJ is very specific and has to do with the philosophy and morality of trading the markets. I also posed it to him withour any rancor so, since it's my question, please permit me to keep this discussion as respectful as possible.

Let me provide a bit of background. It turns out that RJ works as a broker at the same brokerage that I maintain my bullion account. Not being in any way aware of this, I e-mailed him a question concerning bullion purchases since he evidences experience and knowlege in the field. He recognized my real name and in kindly writing back informed me that since he works as a broker at my brokerage, professional ethics forbade him to give me any advice. I understand and respect that. What stimulated all this is my posing what I thought to be a more generic question on the site, the answer to which might have been of use to many at this site. RJ's response brought to mind the question of why there is there no provision at my brokerage ( or any brokerage ) for obtaining a second opinion since his trading style is somewhat different from that of my broker. It seems to me that by combining talents and approaches, perhaps a more succesful overall approach to trading might be achieved. Now, there may be circumstances that mitigate against that. If so, I'm curious as to what they may be. I think a lot of my broker as a person and as a professional, but as I am primarily interested in the well-being of myself and my family I would like to have access to the best and most effective trading methodology possible. When cold-calling into a brokerage ( as I did initially ) one just gets whatever broker is next due to get a client. If there's no definite overall approach, and all the brokers are just in cutthroat competition with one another, then those who are lucky to reach a talented broker will do well while others who are not as lucky will get wiped out. It seems contrary to good economic sense for a large firm not to make every effort to maximize the success of EVERY client. From your comments it seems that there is an "us against them" mentality at work here and I'm not sure it should be like that. Anyway, I await RJ's response and hope this clears up any misintrepretation of my question. ( BTW Bob A: my handle is STRAD Master - as in Stradivarius violins. Thanks! )

ONLOOKER and BOB A: I don't want us to all get bent out of shape here. My question to RJ is very specific and has to do with the philosophy and morality of trading the markets. I also posed it to him withour any rancor so, since it's my question, please permit me to keep this discussion as respectful as possible.

Let me provide a bit of background. It turns out that RJ works as a broker at the same brokerage that I maintain my bullion account. Not being in any way aware of this, I e-mailed him a question concerning bullion purchases since he evidences experience and knowlege in the field. He recognized my real name and in kindly writing back informed me that since he works as a broker at my brokerage, professional ethics forbade him to give me any advice. I understand and respect that. What stimulated all this is my posing what I thought to be a more generic question on the site, the answer to which might have been of use to many at this site. RJ's response brought to mind the question of why there is there no provision at my brokerage ( or any brokerage ) for obtaining a second opinion since his trading style is somewhat different from that of my broker. It seems to me that by combining talents and approaches, perhaps a more succesful overall approach to trading might be achieved. Now, there may be circumstances that mitigate against that. If so, I'm curious as to what they may be. I think a lot of my broker as a person and as a professional, but as I am primarily interested in the well-being of myself and my family I would like to have access to the best and most effective trading methodology possible. When cold-calling into a brokerage ( as I did initially ) one just gets whatever broker is next due to get a client. If there's no definite overall approach, and all the brokers are just in cutthroat competition with one another, then those who are lucky to reach a talented broker will do well while others who are not as lucky will get wiped out. It seems contrary to good economic sense for a large firm not to make every effort to maximize the success of EVERY client. From your comments it seems that there is an "us against them" mentality at work here and I'm not sure it should be like that. Anyway, I await RJ's response and hope this clears up any misintrepretation of my question. ( BTW Bob A: my handle is STRAD Master - as in Stradivarius violins. Thanks! )

June 20th: Bema annual meeting. They may, at that time, release independent scoping studies on Cerro Casale ( Chile ) property ( which they partner with Arizona Star ( AZS on Vancouver ) . Will it show the mother load or mother dud?

Earlier estimates have this property at:

The estimate of contained gold and copper in the Cerro
Casale deposit to 27.4 million ounces of gold and 7.6 billion pounds of copper.

This scoping study may confirm these numbers ( or update ) .

Supposedly PDG may be interested in Bema and/or Arizona Star if the numbers jive.

June 20th: Bema annual meeting. They may, at that time, release independent scoping studies on Cerro Casale ( Chile ) property ( which they partner with Arizona Star ( AZS on Vancouver ) . Will it show the mother load or mother dud?

Earlier estimates have this property at:

The estimate of contained gold and copper in the Cerro
Casale deposit to 27.4 million ounces of gold and 7.6 billion pounds of copper.

This scoping study may confirm these numbers ( or update ) .

Supposedly PDG may be interested in Bema and/or Arizona Star if the numbers jive.

FYI: For those interested in how much forward selling. I just received information on Campbell Resources ( CCH ) . It estimates their 1997 forward selling at 25% of production. I use to own CCH ( that is why I received latest report ) . Seems like a reputable company ( for the mining industry ) . Limited downside versus other juniors, IMHO ... I may buy back later.

FYI: For those interested in how much forward selling. I just received information on Campbell Resources ( CCH ) . It estimates their 1997 forward selling at 25% of production. I use to own CCH ( that is why I received latest report ) . Seems like a reputable company ( for the mining industry ) . Limited downside versus other juniors, IMHO ... I may buy back later.

Richard Burke: All that I heard about the pure silver
stocks, is the talk about huge reserves which'll cost a
pretty penny to put in production.
Even Hecla ( now both PM's ) never lived up to its promise.

The only one that seems OK is Prime Resources
( gold/silver ) http://www.prime-res.com, Homestake has a
50%+ interest. It pays a dividend and a while back, a
report in Investor's Digest hinted that Homestake might
transfer its Canadian assets to Prime. It makes some
sense ( but that's no recommendation ) . Prime can pay back
with gold from Eskay, Snip, then Hemlo. if such were to
take place, Homestake would still have 50%+ stake and
still be the operation's manager.

There are other -no baloney- former silver producer's,
but the key word is former.
I think that this situation may bode well for the metal.
Question of secondary silver still lurks. Ain't no
Justiss.

Richard Burke: All that I heard about the pure silver
stocks, is the talk about huge reserves which'll cost a
pretty penny to put in production.
Even Hecla ( now both PM's ) never lived up to its promise.

The only one that seems OK is Prime Resources
( gold/silver ) http://www.prime-res.com, Homestake has a
50%+ interest. It pays a dividend and a while back, a
report in Investor's Digest hinted that Homestake might
transfer its Canadian assets to Prime. It makes some
sense ( but that's no recommendation ) . Prime can pay back
with gold from Eskay, Snip, then Hemlo. if such were to
take place, Homestake would still have 50%+ stake and
still be the operation's manager.

There are other -no baloney- former silver producer's,
but the key word is former.
I think that this situation may bode well for the metal.
Question of secondary silver still lurks. Ain't no
Justiss.

Did anyone hear the astounding CNN news this morning about Indonesian Mr. Chan who is reported to have been providing the Democratic party with reelection funds from Indonesia..apparently he was spying for the Chinese passing U.S. trade and commerce secrets to Chinese. The Indonesian company Mr. Chan represent were under Chinese ownership. Consider this possibility: Chinese orchestrated the Bre-X fiasco to secure them one of the richest gold reserves in the world, they pay off Freeport McMoran and others to remain silent, they own 95% of Indonesian commerce, they secure themselves a huge gold supply which the U.S. has been trying to prevent them from buying in the normal market ( Greenspan's trip to China to pursuade Chinese to buy U.S. bonds, not gold ) . A deliberate move to secure the Chinese position so as to discredit the U.S. economy, secure in their gold supply, ready to deepsix the U.S. economy by simply defaulting on their U.S. debt holdings. Ties in nicely with Asian Business News about why China orders its banks to cease putting cash into their stock market...such a move in any other market would have seen a major correction. Apparently, not a whimper in Chinese markets..why? What are the Chinese up to? The PLOT THICKENS...indeed! Keep your eye on the ball!

Did anyone hear the astounding CNN news this morning about Indonesian Mr. Chan who is reported to have been providing the Democratic party with reelection funds from Indonesia..apparently he was spying for the Chinese passing U.S. trade and commerce secrets to Chinese. The Indonesian company Mr. Chan represent were under Chinese ownership. Consider this possibility: Chinese orchestrated the Bre-X fiasco to secure them one of the richest gold reserves in the world, they pay off Freeport McMoran and others to remain silent, they own 95% of Indonesian commerce, they secure themselves a huge gold supply which the U.S. has been trying to prevent them from buying in the normal market ( Greenspan's trip to China to pursuade Chinese to buy U.S. bonds, not gold ) . A deliberate move to secure the Chinese position so as to discredit the U.S. economy, secure in their gold supply, ready to deepsix the U.S. economy by simply defaulting on their U.S. debt holdings. Ties in nicely with Asian Business News about why China orders its banks to cease putting cash into their stock market...such a move in any other market would have seen a major correction. Apparently, not a whimper in Chinese markets..why? What are the Chinese up to? The PLOT THICKENS...indeed! Keep your eye on the ball!

HAHAHAHAHA!

HAHAHAHAHA!

LoserRUS: What is your major maladjustment?

LoserRUS: What is your major maladjustment?

Strad Master: I don't know alot about how brokers work or run their
business. I try not to use them. Matter of fact - I don't use them.

But, I know this:
I have a close friend who is a broker for ML - she has the corner office
on the top floor of the ( big 5 city ) branch. In other words - she's important
in the ( big 5 city ) market and you have to be referred just to talk to her. She
has shown me internal memos and reports that the brokers never see or
hear about. Not all brokers or clients are equal or are treated equally.
Client books are closely guarded by each broker.

Personnally, if I had a 7 digit account I would have a professional like
D.A. manage 90% of it, and personnaly play with the rest. Their is nothing
like being in NY and being connected. IMHO

Strad Master: I don't know alot about how brokers work or run their
business. I try not to use them. Matter of fact - I don't use them.

But, I know this:
I have a close friend who is a broker for ML - she has the corner office
on the top floor of the ( big 5 city ) branch. In other words - she's important
in the ( big 5 city ) market and you have to be referred just to talk to her. She
has shown me internal memos and reports that the brokers never see or
hear about. Not all brokers or clients are equal or are treated equally.
Client books are closely guarded by each broker.

Personnally, if I had a 7 digit account I would have a professional like
D.A. manage 90% of it, and personnaly play with the rest. Their is nothing
like being in NY and being connected. IMHO

Kuston: yep ... most brokers are just pumping product ( sales = $$$ ) . Most do very little research of what they're peddling ... just passing something on that one of the bigwigs has passed on to them ... when it is okay to pass it to the general public. IMHO ... you are better off doing your own guesswork and due dili. ( or throwing darts ) than using a broker ( unless you're connected ) . Remember Dan D. on CNBC ... you were hearing it from him because somebody wanted you to hear those recommendations. You could lose a lot of money doing that. For example, I remember Citibank and Chemical slightly around 10 or so and Dan D. having people predicting they would go to about 2/share ( recommending short ) . Recommending shorting many bank stocks, etc. Anybody who went on that info. lost, not only, their shirt ...
but also a few arms and legs. : )

Kuston: yep ... most brokers are just pumping product ( sales = $$$ ) . Most do very little research of what they're peddling ... just passing something on that one of the bigwigs has passed on to them ... when it is okay to pass it to the general public. IMHO ... you are better off doing your own guesswork and due dili. ( or throwing darts ) than using a broker ( unless you're connected ) . Remember Dan D. on CNBC ... you were hearing it from him because somebody wanted you to hear those recommendations. You could lose a lot of money doing that. For example, I remember Citibank and Chemical slightly around 10 or so and Dan D. having people predicting they would go to about 2/share ( recommending short ) . Recommending shorting many bank stocks, etc. Anybody who went on that info. lost, not only, their shirt ...
but also a few arms and legs. : )

Anyone notice BMG Battle Mountain Gold. Moving up on good volume in spite of terrible gold performance. Stk. up a qtr on 632 k. Co. has lots of cash and recd an upgrade to positive from S&P on Hemlo merger.
Could BMG be in play/all that cash/S&P upgrade/Peculiarly bullish stk action given the current gold market. Something is happening here. This is a Houston, Texas based company.

Anyone notice BMG Battle Mountain Gold. Moving up on good volume in spite of terrible gold performance. Stk. up a qtr on 632 k. Co. has lots of cash and recd an upgrade to positive from S&P on Hemlo merger.
Could BMG be in play/all that cash/S&P upgrade/Peculiarly bullish stk action given the current gold market. Something is happening here. This is a Houston, Texas based company.

My feeling is that the XAU going up today proves that in a tornado even an ostrich will fly. I think if the DOW goes down XAU will go down too. Its weak positive showing does not appear to me to be particularly bullish today given the rise in the DOW. Now in an effort to make the wound licking more palatable the following.

A guy gets on an airplane and sits next to a very attractive young lady with NAN emblazoned on the front of her t-shirt.

The guy, with intent to become closer friends with the beauty, says, "So Nan, how do you like flying?"

The lady replies, "My name isn't Nan, NAN stands for the National
Association of Nymphos."

The guy says, "What does the NAN do?"

She says, "We have meetings to discuss the best lovers."

He asks her who the best lovers are and she replies, "The best lovers are
Jews and Native-Americans."

He says, "Let me introduce myself, I'm Tonto Goldstien."

My feeling is that the XAU going up today proves that in a tornado even an ostrich will fly. I think if the DOW goes down XAU will go down too. Its weak positive showing does not appear to me to be particularly bullish today given the rise in the DOW. Now in an effort to make the wound licking more palatable the following.

A guy gets on an airplane and sits next to a very attractive young lady with NAN emblazoned on the front of her t-shirt.

The guy, with intent to become closer friends with the beauty, says, "So Nan, how do you like flying?"

The lady replies, "My name isn't Nan, NAN stands for the National
Association of Nymphos."

The guy says, "What does the NAN do?"

She says, "We have meetings to discuss the best lovers."

He asks her who the best lovers are and she replies, "The best lovers are
Jews and Native-Americans."

He says, "Let me introduce myself, I'm Tonto Goldstien."

Earl ( Duke of.. ) ....Thanks for info on Dec 98 400's. I am going to take some of those
puppies soon to hedge some property I am selling in late 98.

Earl ( Duke of.. ) ....Thanks for info on Dec 98 400's. I am going to take some of those
puppies soon to hedge some property I am selling in late 98.

A.P.H.

Al, when you e-mailed me a couple of weeks ago that the S & P would hit 880 I have to admit I didn't believe it. You called it right ! Too bad I had puts instead of calls.

Tell, me... when can we expect the Dow to crash ?

Paul

A.P.H.

Al, when you e-mailed me a couple of weeks ago that the S & P would hit 880 I have to admit I didn't believe it. You called it right ! Too bad I had puts instead of calls.

Tell, me... when can we expect the Dow to crash ?

Paul

Announcement: For a Limited Time Only!!

The DBC site will now allow you to put in technical indicators for your chart. They have a selection of various indicators to choose from. I.E.- stochastics, MACD, Bollinger Bands, etc.

You need to get to the "Enhanced Charting " Page and look for "technical indicators" The URL is http://www.dbc.com

Announcement: For a Limited Time Only!!

The DBC site will now allow you to put in technical indicators for your chart. They have a selection of various indicators to choose from. I.E.- stochastics, MACD, Bollinger Bands, etc.

You need to get to the "Enhanced Charting " Page and look for "technical indicators" The URL is http://www.dbc.com

Re: last post. Just realized that the "Technical Charting" page can be accessed directly from the DBC Home Page.

Re: last post. Just realized that the "Technical Charting" page can be accessed directly from the DBC Home Page.

Tort ( bonus joke ) HAHAHA...but who's lickin wounds??? Dow up...ABX up.....
beautiful sunny day on the ocean....who can ask fer more...Tort:"the Mailman" was pathetic in the clutch last night and I am very disturbed by his performance in the biggest game of his life....fer shame Mailman..fer shame...

Tort ( bonus joke ) HAHAHA...but who's lickin wounds??? Dow up...ABX up.....
beautiful sunny day on the ocean....who can ask fer more...Tort:"the Mailman" was pathetic in the clutch last night and I am very disturbed by his performance in the biggest game of his life....fer shame Mailman..fer shame...

Tw: ( 18:34 ) What I'm thinking is pure speculation, but
when Battle Mountain aquired Hemlo Gold, they also
re-aquired their conservative image and probable support
from Noranda.
Down here the greenies have thrown; and are attempting to
throw more monkey wrenches in their plans.
My quess -and its only that- is that they will seek to
increase their interest in Lihir Gold, the biggest newby
on the block.

Tw: ( 18:34 ) What I'm thinking is pure speculation, but
when Battle Mountain aquired Hemlo Gold, they also
re-aquired their conservative image and probable support
from Noranda.
Down here the greenies have thrown; and are attempting to
throw more monkey wrenches in their plans.
My quess -and its only that- is that they will seek to
increase their interest in Lihir Gold, the biggest newby
on the block.

If Dolly Parton had married and divorced Tommy Smothers, then went even further back in show business and married and divorced Mr. Lucky, then married and divorced Martin Short, then married football kicker Ray Guy, we could all nod understandingly when we heard, "Dolly Parton Smothers Lucky Short Guy."

If Dolly Parton had married and divorced Tommy Smothers, then went even further back in show business and married and divorced Mr. Lucky, then married and divorced Martin Short, then married football kicker Ray Guy, we could all nod understandingly when we heard, "Dolly Parton Smothers Lucky Short Guy."

Tomorrow will be our day! The big rally is right around the corner! My charts show gold will turn around at 11:54 Friday morning! The Dow will be at 1,000 in 37 days!

Tomorrow will be our day! The big rally is right around the corner! My charts show gold will turn around at 11:54 Friday morning! The Dow will be at 1,000 in 37 days!

RJ: I disagree with your 6-11-97 note @ 21:05. You said, the trick is to buy gold and sell it after a move up. This time around, buy and hold will work better. Our financial system is collapsing. Selling gold any time before the collapse becomes a total wash-out will mean a complete loss of your capital -- no matter how much you made on the way up.

RJ: I disagree with your 6-11-97 note @ 21:05. You said, the trick is to buy gold and sell it after a move up. This time around, buy and hold will work better. Our financial system is collapsing. Selling gold any time before the collapse becomes a total wash-out will mean a complete loss of your capital -- no matter how much you made on the way up.

RJ: You need to read Eldorado's piece on 6-11-97 @ 23:02. Eldorado: You understand our monetary system and financial condition perfectly. You need to post more notes on these pages!!

RJ: You need to read Eldorado's piece on 6-11-97 @ 23:02. Eldorado: You understand our monetary system and financial condition perfectly. You need to post more notes on these pages!!

For technical analysis ( JAVA *and* non-JAVA ) on stocks, try
http://www.iqc.com Membership is free, and as far as I know, this is not for a limited time either.

For technical analysis ( JAVA *and* non-JAVA ) on stocks, try
http://www.iqc.com Membership is free, and as far as I know, this is not for a limited time either.

George Cole: You are right. Stocks hold the key to the revival of gold and silver. With everyone rushing into blue-chips, nothing left for gold. It looks like the DJIA is in a blow-off. The big question is when will it terminate?

George Cole: You are right. Stocks hold the key to the revival of gold and silver. With everyone rushing into blue-chips, nothing left for gold. It looks like the DJIA is in a blow-off. The big question is when will it terminate?

I haven't seen much discussion about the decline in retail sales. Retail sales have dropped for 3 months in a row. In the old days, that used to be a sign that the economy has slipped into recession. It looks like a replay of 1929, the economy peaks-out ahead of the stock market. If so, the coming stock market crash isn't too far away.

Crystal Ball: Owe Nice.

Crystal Ball: Owe Nice.

I haven't seen much discussion about the decline in retail sales. Retail sales have dropped for 3 months in a row. In the old days, that used to be a sign that the economy has slipped into recession. It looks like a replay of 1929, the economy peaks-out ahead of the stock market. If so, the coming stock market crash isn't too far away.

General & Student: A big portion of the mania is social pressure. With so many people making money in stocks and losing in precious metals, those who like gold and avoid stocks are scorned. I must admit, my wife isn't too fond of my investment strategy either. Nonetheless, we must rely on logic, not emotion. We must buy value, and avoid over-value. Logic dictates that gold be purchased, and stocks and bonds be avoided.

General & Student: A big portion of the mania is social pressure. With so many people making money in stocks and losing in precious metals, those who like gold and avoid stocks are scorned. I must admit, my wife isn't too fond of my investment strategy either. Nonetheless, we must rely on logic, not emotion. We must buy value, and avoid over-value. Logic dictates that gold be purchased, and stocks and bonds be avoided.

GUN-RUNNER: Buy gold and silver coins.

GUN-RUNNER: Buy gold and silver coins.

TED: Refering to the 1987 crash, and the expectation of another crash, you asked: Is the world coming to an end this time?
In a word -- YES. That is, the financial world as we know it. Read Eldorado's work. Credit-based money is history -- probably for centuries to come.

TED: Refering to the 1987 crash, and the expectation of another crash, you asked: Is the world coming to an end this time?
In a word -- YES. That is, the financial world as we know it. Read Eldorado's work. Credit-based money is history -- probably for centuries to come.

Crystal Ball:

Thanks! Now I am charted up. : )

Crystal Ball:

Thanks! Now I am charted up. : )

U.S. House of Cards: 5+ trillion debt; 17+ trillion unfunded liabilities;
new accouting gimmicks to hide the true size of the federal deficit ( last year deficit was about 250 billion not 107 billion ) . High levels of corporate and personal debt. Medicare Trust fund on life support ( and eventually Uncle Sam will raise taxes ) . Soc. Sec ... and so on and so on.

When will this lunacy end?..I thought the final figures I heard were from Hong Kong or Tokyo. Tomorrow, they'll probably announce that there were ten less bankruptcies and the market will go up another 100 points. To add a little further levity ( I enjoyed tortfeasor's humor ) , I'll add my own story:

Many of us remember back in July, 1969 when Neil Armstrong landed on the moon....those memorable words: "That's one small step for man and..." well you know the rest. What you don't know is that many of us misheard those history-making remarks Armstrong uttered as he descended from the lunar module onto the moon's surface. It seems that
Armstrong, as a young boy, lived in an apartment complex in Ohio. Practically every night as he was getting ready to go to bed he could hear in the next apartment his neighbor, Emanuel Kind pleading with his wife for sex. Manny's wife's constant refrain was:
"Manny, when somebody lands on the moon....that when we'll have sex!"
Well, as Armstrong prepared for his historic making descent onto the
moon's surface, he kept thinking of his old neighbor, Emanuel Kind...
so when he set foot on the moon, he said: "That one small step for man...
one giant leap for Manny Kind."

When will this lunacy end?..I thought the final figures I heard were from Hong Kong or Tokyo. Tomorrow, they'll probably announce that there were ten less bankruptcies and the market will go up another 100 points. To add a little further levity ( I enjoyed tortfeasor's humor ) , I'll add my own story:

Many of us remember back in July, 1969 when Neil Armstrong landed on the moon....those memorable words: "That's one small step for man and..." well you know the rest. What you don't know is that many of us misheard those history-making remarks Armstrong uttered as he descended from the lunar module onto the moon's surface. It seems that
Armstrong, as a young boy, lived in an apartment complex in Ohio. Practically every night as he was getting ready to go to bed he could hear in the next apartment his neighbor, Emanuel Kind pleading with his wife for sex. Manny's wife's constant refrain was:
"Manny, when somebody lands on the moon....that when we'll have sex!"
Well, as Armstrong prepared for his historic making descent onto the
moon's surface, he kept thinking of his old neighbor, Emanuel Kind...
so when he set foot on the moon, he said: "That one small step for man...
one giant leap for Manny Kind."

U.S. House of Cards: 5+ trillion debt; 17+ trillion unfunded liabilities;
new accouting gimmicks to hide the true size of the federal deficit ( last year deficit was about 250 billion not 107 billion ) . High levels of corporate and personal debt. Medicare Trust fund on life support ( and eventually Uncle Sam will raise taxes ) . Soc. Sec ... and so on and so on.

Steve Puetz: Read who's work???...Think I'll stick with Warren Buffett...
snicker...snicker....Where the hell did you come from??...I've been fully invested for the ENTIRE BULL-MARKET and have also made a few bucks on Platinum and gold shares...on the side...Sometimes the bias of this site is actually humorous!

Steve Puetz: Read who's work???...Think I'll stick with Warren Buffett...
snicker...snicker....Where the hell did you come from??...I've been fully invested for the ENTIRE BULL-MARKET and have also made a few bucks on Platinum and gold shares...on the side...Sometimes the bias of this site is actually humorous!

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Dashing & Flamboyant CNBC Financial Celebrity shares an encyclopedia of market insights on stocks, oil and T-bonds in Inger Letter Forecast - Click RELOAD at Gold Digest:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest.html

Dashing & Flamboyant CNBC Financial Celebrity shares an encyclopedia of market insights on stocks, oil and T-bonds in Inger Letter Forecast - Click RELOAD at Gold Digest:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest.html

If anyone is now joining the sucker rally ( IMHO ) to go over 8000, I hope you know when to exit.

If anyone is now joining the sucker rally ( IMHO ) to go over 8000, I hope you know when to exit.

Mr. Peutz's observations are correct/the threat is depression. In McAlvaney's Letter ( which all should read lest they be uninformed ) the author unmasks the fraudulent presentation of Econ strength by or leaders ( Political/Media and Wall St ) . Credit card debt went fron 20 billion in 1990 to 400 billion in 1995 its probably near 500 billion area now. Bankruptcies, with which I am well acquainted in my profession, are going through the roof and unfortunately I can report that MY business is really booming/unlike retail sales.I can tell you from experience that the debt game played by the banks is really hurting families. As Mcalvaney aptly points out Depressions are always caused by excessive credit expansion as in the 20s. The difference this time is that we have very smart people ie mkt saavy, like Rubin who see this coming and have been hired by the politicians to try and head it off.

COORDINATION: US releases weak econ numbers today. Now if you were one of the guys hired to maintain stability what message would you want from the weakness. Ans: Strong dollar ( Japanese miraculously buy dollars just before this announcement ) strong stks ( basically a life of its own ) weak gold ( no panic over weakness ) . The nightmare scenario is weakening US economy therefore bigger deficits and higher rates and crashing stks thus when weak numbers are released you must have a strong dollar. The nightmare scenario is what they are trying to delay and thus will be aggressive in countering the development of any adverse market psychology when the numbers present a risk ( ie weak ) of their development. They are well awarse that the credit based expansion requires intense mgmt since it is based on the need for continual borrowing for earnings growth and therefore even US tax revenues. When the borrowing crashes so will earnings begin to erode.

EVIDENCE: I have noticed many companies attempting to get business by discounting the cost of services deeply. However, the catch is that you pay money upfront. Given, the prevalence of pressure for short term earnings performance ( stk option oriented managers ) one would get the impression that they will do anything to get that earnings bounce at the expenses of future performance. This policy may indicate that things are getting tight and they have basically played out the downsize card.

Re: Stockbrokers: I have a full service broker who has assisted me with financial plans and who is honest but has had some bad years as well as good. In the bad years I always insist that he does not reduce the commission because I know it is then that he really needs the money. When he is riding high and making me money I demand a 25% discount.

Mr. Peutz's observations are correct/the threat is depression. In McAlvaney's Letter ( which all should read lest they be uninformed ) the author unmasks the fraudulent presentation of Econ strength by or leaders ( Political/Media and Wall St ) . Credit card debt went fron 20 billion in 1990 to 400 billion in 1995 its probably near 500 billion area now. Bankruptcies, with which I am well acquainted in my profession, are going through the roof and unfortunately I can report that MY business is really booming/unlike retail sales.I can tell you from experience that the debt game played by the banks is really hurting families. As Mcalvaney aptly points out Depressions are always caused by excessive credit expansion as in the 20s. The difference this time is that we have very smart people ie mkt saavy, like Rubin who see this coming and have been hired by the politicians to try and head it off.

COORDINATION: US releases weak econ numbers today. Now if you were one of the guys hired to maintain stability what message would you want from the weakness. Ans: Strong dollar ( Japanese miraculously buy dollars just before this announcement ) strong stks ( basically a life of its own ) weak gold ( no panic over weakness ) . The nightmare scenario is weakening US economy therefore bigger deficits and higher rates and crashing stks thus when weak numbers are released you must have a strong dollar. The nightmare scenario is what they are trying to delay and thus will be aggressive in countering the development of any adverse market psychology when the numbers present a risk ( ie weak ) of their development. They are well awarse that the credit based expansion requires intense mgmt since it is based on the need for continual borrowing for earnings growth and therefore even US tax revenues. When the borrowing crashes so will earnings begin to erode.

EVIDENCE: I have noticed many companies attempting to get business by discounting the cost of services deeply. However, the catch is that you pay money upfront. Given, the prevalence of pressure for short term earnings performance ( stk option oriented managers ) one would get the impression that they will do anything to get that earnings bounce at the expenses of future performance. This policy may indicate that things are getting tight and they have basically played out the downsize card.

Re: Stockbrokers: I have a full service broker who has assisted me with financial plans and who is honest but has had some bad years as well as good. In the bad years I always insist that he does not reduce the commission because I know it is then that he really needs the money. When he is riding high and making me money I demand a 25% discount.

EWP ( 19:54 ) Right on; and practically every government
has large debt. It's supposed to be payed; so we are
told.
Who pays? The taxpayer pays.
Who do the governments pay? The Credit Czars.
Who controls the governments?????????

EWP ( 19:54 ) Right on; and practically every government
has large debt. It's supposed to be payed; so we are
told.
Who pays? The taxpayer pays.
Who do the governments pay? The Credit Czars.
Who controls the governments?????????

Jack: and the U.S. has the addl. problem of depending on countries like Japan and China to buy its debt. Japan is a problem now because of the stability of their economy and banking system ... and China and the MNF thing is about getting China to buy our paper ... and China may be more of a long term problem that Uncle Sam's appetite for debt will just have to deal with ( unfortunately ) .

Jack: and the U.S. has the addl. problem of depending on countries like Japan and China to buy its debt. Japan is a problem now because of the stability of their economy and banking system ... and China and the MNF thing is about getting China to buy our paper ... and China may be more of a long term problem that Uncle Sam's appetite for debt will just have to deal with ( unfortunately ) .

EWP: Re-suckers rally and Dow 8,000....With all due respect, what is going to happen at the end of "the suckers rally"...another repeat of 1987???...Didn't sell a share then and am now in early retirement...Most of my portfolio is in D.R.I.P. and I only ended up buying more shares when the market plunged...Shares in the BASICS of life such as international oil ( XON ) electric+ gas utilities ( WEC,SIG,BGC,PNY, ECT ) and telephone companies ( SBC,FRO ) ...are they all goin out of business??? Don't hold yer breath!...I got plenty of ABX TOO so I ain't no anti-goldbug...and plenty of tangible stuff...ie. real eatate...is that goin to vaporize too??...I am also very SELF-SUFFICENT ( probably unlike most on this site ) so bring it on! I'm READY!

EWP: Re-suckers rally and Dow 8,000....With all due respect, what is going to happen at the end of "the suckers rally"...another repeat of 1987???...Didn't sell a share then and am now in early retirement...Most of my portfolio is in D.R.I.P. and I only ended up buying more shares when the market plunged...Shares in the BASICS of life such as international oil ( XON ) electric+ gas utilities ( WEC,SIG,BGC,PNY, ECT ) and telephone companies ( SBC,FRO ) ...are they all goin out of business??? Don't hold yer breath!...I got plenty of ABX TOO so I ain't no anti-goldbug...and plenty of tangible stuff...ie. real eatate...is that goin to vaporize too??...I am also very SELF-SUFFICENT ( probably unlike most on this site ) so bring it on! I'm READY!

Ted: Cash will be king. Buying opportunities. Energy related sector may be of good value. I own PNY also and some others through DRIP and Direct Purchase plans! Only 5-7% in mining shares. Shifting to money market and conservative funds for buying opportunities.

Ted: Cash will be king. Buying opportunities. Energy related sector may be of good value. I own PNY also and some others through DRIP and Direct Purchase plans! Only 5-7% in mining shares. Shifting to money market and conservative funds for buying opportunities.

EBN Gold down .40....and Tiger Woods is NINE strokes behind the leader...

EBN Gold down .40....and Tiger Woods is NINE strokes behind the leader...

EWP: I'm in SHOCK!...someone here owns a non-gold stock...Ain't PNY a great little company and I love those yearly dividend raises...TRP is another good one fer dividend increases...Vis-a-vis U.S.Dollar ..the Canadian Dollar is a screamin buy!

EWP: I'm in SHOCK!...someone here owns a non-gold stock...Ain't PNY a great little company and I love those yearly dividend raises...TRP is another good one fer dividend increases...Vis-a-vis U.S.Dollar ..the Canadian Dollar is a screamin buy!

Front -- I tried, but had no success! Now I know why I use Netscape instead of Explorer! I even checked out MSFTs website to no avail!

Front -- I tried, but had no success! Now I know why I use Netscape instead of Explorer! I even checked out MSFTs website to no avail!

Chicken Little: Have no fear, we have the best and the
brightest to keep the sky from falling.

Chicken Little: Have no fear, we have the best and the
brightest to keep the sky from falling.

TED: I hope you earned every penny of your inheritance/just kidding since I dont know I cant say. However, you are to be commended on your stick tooitiveness with stks, this sounds like you are not an emotional investor which I think is key and which I can point to in my investment miscues.

My Ques. is why is a smart guy like you living in freezing NE Canada where from your posts you have disdain and even repugnance for your more progressive bretheren in the area. Ever heard of Antigua/Anguilla/Barbados or Trinidad. What a waste of early retirement, but I guess to each his own.

TED: I hope you earned every penny of your inheritance/just kidding since I dont know I cant say. However, you are to be commended on your stick tooitiveness with stks, this sounds like you are not an emotional investor which I think is key and which I can point to in my investment miscues.

My Ques. is why is a smart guy like you living in freezing NE Canada where from your posts you have disdain and even repugnance for your more progressive bretheren in the area. Ever heard of Antigua/Anguilla/Barbados or Trinidad. What a waste of early retirement, but I guess to each his own.

Gaze upon this monthly Dow chart in awe. Makes palladium and coffee look like pikers. Meanwhile, gold sits like a lump of lead.

Gaze upon this monthly Dow chart in awe. Makes palladium and coffee look like pikers. Meanwhile, gold sits like a lump of lead.

Gaze upon this monthly Dow chart in awe. Makes palladium and coffee look like pikers. Meanwhile, gold sits like a lump of lead.

Gaze upon this monthly Dow chart in awe. Makes palladium and coffee look like pikers. Meanwhile, gold sits like a lump of lead.

Netscape bug uncovered


Danish software firm finds flaw that
could let sites see data stored on PCs

From Correspondent Steve Young
June 12, 1997: 6:58 p.m. ET

NEW YORK ( CNNfn ) - A serious new flaw that affects all versions of Netscape Communications Corp.'s popular Navigator Internet browser software -- including the final test version of its Communicator Suite released Wednesday -- has been uncovered by a Danish software firm, CNNfn has learned.

The bug was reported by Cabocomm, a software company located about 100 miles west of Copenhagen, Denmark. The bug makes it possible for Web-site operators to read anything stored on the hard drive of a PC logged on to the Web site.

After the firm reported the bug to CNN Financial News, CNNfn and PC Magazine tested the bug by creating and storing a document on a PC's hard drive in New York. Seconds later, the Danish company read it.

As further proof, CNNfn and PC Magazine created another document which the Danish company was also able to read.

Larry Seltzer, technical director of PC Labs, was among those who helped verify the bug report. He said it would take a somewhat savvy computer user to exploit the bug.

"They have to be seeking information from your system and they also have to know the file name. It's not that hard for somebody who's looking to make trouble, but they do have to be looking for it," Seltzer said.

"It's serious in that it's in the [actual] browser ...whereas previous bugs generally required the user to have downloaded an additional product," Jim Wise, UNIX administrator for CNNfn, said.

CNNfn's test showed that Internet security firewalls offer no protection from the bug.

Mike Homer, vice president of marketing for Netscape, said the company takes this and all bug reports seriously. ( 83K WAV ) or ( 83K AIFF )

The Danish company says the reward of $1,000 and a T-shirt is "insultingly low" considering the extent to which the bug report is likely to worry Netscape users.

Cabocomm said it would accept "reasonable compensation" for the technical information -- or they can send a Netscape representative to Cabocomm and get it for free.

CNNfn, PC Magazine and the Danish company will not release technical details on the bug until Netscape has prepared a bug fix.

The reason CNNfn is not reporting the specifics of the bug is to avoid anyone exploiting it.

Until the bug is fixed, confidential letters, business spreadsheets -- everything on your PC -- can potentially be pilfered.

The Danish company says it won't exploit the bug, but has no idea if someone else has found the same bug and is compromising a system's integrity.

Netscape bug uncovered


Danish software firm finds flaw that
could let sites see data stored on PCs

From Correspondent Steve Young
June 12, 1997: 6:58 p.m. ET

NEW YORK ( CNNfn ) - A serious new flaw that affects all versions of Netscape Communications Corp.'s popular Navigator Internet browser software -- including the final test version of its Communicator Suite released Wednesday -- has been uncovered by a Danish software firm, CNNfn has learned.

The bug was reported by Cabocomm, a software company located about 100 miles west of Copenhagen, Denmark. The bug makes it possible for Web-site operators to read anything stored on the hard drive of a PC logged on to the Web site.

After the firm reported the bug to CNN Financial News, CNNfn and PC Magazine tested the bug by creating and storing a document on a PC's hard drive in New York. Seconds later, the Danish company read it.

As further proof, CNNfn and PC Magazine created another document which the Danish company was also able to read.

Larry Seltzer, technical director of PC Labs, was among those who helped verify the bug report. He said it would take a somewhat savvy computer user to exploit the bug.

"They have to be seeking information from your system and they also have to know the file name. It's not that hard for somebody who's looking to make trouble, but they do have to be looking for it," Seltzer said.

"It's serious in that it's in the [actual] browser ...whereas previous bugs generally required the user to have downloaded an additional product," Jim Wise, UNIX administrator for CNNfn, said.

CNNfn's test showed that Internet security firewalls offer no protection from the bug.

Mike Homer, vice president of marketing for Netscape, said the company takes this and all bug reports seriously. ( 83K WAV ) or ( 83K AIFF )

The Danish company says the reward of $1,000 and a T-shirt is "insultingly low" considering the extent to which the bug report is likely to worry Netscape users.

Cabocomm said it would accept "reasonable compensation" for the technical information -- or they can send a Netscape representative to Cabocomm and get it for free.

CNNfn, PC Magazine and the Danish company will not release technical details on the bug until Netscape has prepared a bug fix.

The reason CNNfn is not reporting the specifics of the bug is to avoid anyone exploiting it.

Until the bug is fixed, confidential letters, business spreadsheets -- everything on your PC -- can potentially be pilfered.

The Danish company says it won't exploit the bug, but has no idea if someone else has found the same bug and is compromising a system's integrity.

Here is a chart of the XAU with patented lines and such. Not very exciting. It is reaaly a first attempt at getting charts out of some outdated DOS based real time software. I want to see how it turns out before doing some overlays and other things.

Here is a chart of the XAU with patented lines and such. Not very exciting. It is reaaly a first attempt at getting charts out of some outdated DOS based real time software. I want to see how it turns out before doing some overlays and other things.

I guess that was less than a resounding success. I had to convert the file from *.PCX to *.GIF. Something was lost in translation. Evidently.

Ted: yep .. I'm only about a 5-7% goldie. I have the DP and DRIPs for a couple of energy and utility companies ( coal and hydro sources ) for my spouse and children. Basically, the companies that I feel are good 15 year investments. My mining plays are have fun with the house money. My plays are high risk ( half in Bema and half in another company ) . I like a few others but I'm disciplined on the percentage that I will invest in this sector. Heh ... it's fun and risky.

Ted: yep .. I'm only about a 5-7% goldie. I have the DP and DRIPs for a couple of energy and utility companies ( coal and hydro sources ) for my spouse and children. Basically, the companies that I feel are good 15 year investments. My mining plays are have fun with the house money. My plays are high risk ( half in Bema and half in another company ) . I like a few others but I'm disciplined on the percentage that I will invest in this sector. Heh ... it's fun and risky.

I guess that was less than a resounding success. I had to convert the file from *.PCX to *.GIF. Something was lost in translation. Evidently.

WW: Well..well..well! So you decided to deal with me..eh...Not a DIME of inheritance...buddy....Why am I wasting away in Canada??? I'm now wasting my retirement in Cape Breton...That's your judgement! Not mine....I love nature-oceans-seakayaking and you can't find a better place to do that than her in good old Cape Breton!...I like COLD weather or I would be in a southern clime....Re-the people here....yes, most of them are pathetic but no worse than what I experienced in Putney Vermont after all the "flatlanders" moved in...and finally I much prefer living in CANADA where the leader is NOT a slime-ball...Again, it's YOUR judgement I'm wasting my retirement as I LIVE life to the max!...and I ain't no LEEMING!

WW: Well..well..well! So you decided to deal with me..eh...Not a DIME of inheritance...buddy....Why am I wasting away in Canada??? I'm now wasting my retirement in Cape Breton...That's your judgement! Not mine....I love nature-oceans-seakayaking and you can't find a better place to do that than her in good old Cape Breton!...I like COLD weather or I would be in a southern clime....Re-the people here....yes, most of them are pathetic but no worse than what I experienced in Putney Vermont after all the "flatlanders" moved in...and finally I much prefer living in CANADA where the leader is NOT a slime-ball...Again, it's YOUR judgement I'm wasting my retirement as I LIVE life to the max!...and I ain't no LEEMING!

Ted: and I'm not as cranky as some of the goldbugs because I've actually made money in mining shares this year. Made some small gains in CCH. I don't own now ... but may again. Quality company, IMHO. They are interested in doing acquisitions. I want to wait until after they pull the trigger before I'd would consider them again.

Ted: and I'm not as cranky as some of the goldbugs because I've actually made money in mining shares this year. Made some small gains in CCH. I don't own now ... but may again. Quality company, IMHO. They are interested in doing acquisitions. I want to wait until after they pull the trigger before I'd would consider them again.

WW: Where will you be retiring? FL. Let me know so I can move down there ... and hassle you to get out and get a job ... and quit expecting some younger kids to subsidized your golf, shuffleboard, and bochy ball habits.

WW: Where will you be retiring? FL. Let me know so I can move down there ... and hassle you to get out and get a job ... and quit expecting some younger kids to subsidized your golf, shuffleboard, and bochy ball habits.

EWP: Sounds like we have similar investment styles...I'm approx.10% of stock portfolio in ABX...I've studied UTES fer years and like their correlation to interest rates and thus to GOLD!...AM also in long Bond @ 9.05% ( bought about five years ago ) ...No state taxes on that baby...but next time it hits 6% I'm gettin out...10+ years ago day-traded gold shares and have also used UTES as a trading vehicle...But only trade with that I can afford to lose!

EWP: Sounds like we have similar investment styles...I'm approx.10% of stock portfolio in ABX...I've studied UTES fer years and like their correlation to interest rates and thus to GOLD!...AM also in long Bond @ 9.05% ( bought about five years ago ) ...No state taxes on that baby...but next time it hits 6% I'm gettin out...10+ years ago day-traded gold shares and have also used UTES as a trading vehicle...But only trade with that I can afford to lose!

TED: I said "to each his own". What I would like to know as an American Conservative living in Canada are you partaking of their National Health Service, which all conservative Canadians I speak with seem to prefer or have you stuck with the US Private Insurance program.
I know nothing of Chretian but I assume he is good and even as a left wing Liberal I do not like Clinton so you will insight no argument there.
BC is the ultimate in political expediency. If the stk mkt ever goes down significantly his troubles will multiply.

TED: I said "to each his own". What I would like to know as an American Conservative living in Canada are you partaking of their National Health Service, which all conservative Canadians I speak with seem to prefer or have you stuck with the US Private Insurance program.
I know nothing of Chretian but I assume he is good and even as a left wing Liberal I do not like Clinton so you will insight no argument there.
BC is the ultimate in political expediency. If the stk mkt ever goes down significantly his troubles will multiply.

EWP: yeah, some "out there" are gettin a little CRANKY...ain't they!..I bought CDE last September and held for a few months and made a few bucks.
Bought HM at X-mas time and held that for about a month or so and made a few bucks there too...Bought ABX several months ago @ 25.5 and ain't sellin until it's at least over 30....and maybe not even then!

EWP: yeah, some "out there" are gettin a little CRANKY...ain't they!..I bought CDE last September and held for a few months and made a few bucks.
Bought HM at X-mas time and held that for about a month or so and made a few bucks there too...Bought ABX several months ago @ 25.5 and ain't sellin until it's at least over 30....and maybe not even then!

Ted and WW: Now, now, lets be level headed.
Gun-Runner: Have I got a deal for you!!!

Ted: 9.05% ... can't beat that. Gold is a good contrarian play now ( or so say a lot of "experts" ) . Longer term ... energy ( oil and natural gas exploration, etc. ) is wiser ( if you looking 15-20 years ) ... and the DP and DRIPs are a great way to dollar cost average a bunch of companies.

Ted: 9.05% ... can't beat that. Gold is a good contrarian play now ( or so say a lot of "experts" ) . Longer term ... energy ( oil and natural gas exploration, etc. ) is wiser ( if you looking 15-20 years ) ... and the DP and DRIPs are a great way to dollar cost average a bunch of companies.

Ted and WW: Now, now, lets be level headed.
Gun-Runner: Have I got a deal for you!!!

WW: My God...you are back fer more!...No,I don't partake of the Canadian health care system and am at the mercy of the private U.S. system...I can't believe we have somethin in common....even YOU do not like Billy-Bob....Bravo!...BC is Tony Blair's idol...what does that say about GB???...Now I will ask YOU AGAIN WW....Where do you live in New England??

WW: My God...you are back fer more!...No,I don't partake of the Canadian health care system and am at the mercy of the private U.S. system...I can't believe we have somethin in common....even YOU do not like Billy-Bob....Bravo!...BC is Tony Blair's idol...what does that say about GB???...Now I will ask YOU AGAIN WW....Where do you live in New England??

WDL: Great story!! Neil Armstrong is a graduate of my alma mater --
Purdue!!

WDL: Great story!! Neil Armstrong is a graduate of my alma mater --
Purdue!!

WW: Good comments. The problem now is: Lend to whom?
Solvent creditors are hard to find these days.

WW: Good comments. The problem now is: Lend to whom?
Solvent creditors are hard to find these days.

Ted: The coming problem for utility-type companies in an economic depression is that they must collect bills from customers who are broke. What seem like solid and sound companies now, won't look the same in an economic depression.

Ted: The coming problem for utility-type companies in an economic depression is that they must collect bills from customers who are broke. What seem like solid and sound companies now, won't look the same in an economic depression.

EWP: Yeah, 9.05% ain't bad fer these days...What I like about D.R.I.P.'S is that they are the ultimate timming device....cheaper they are the more ya buy..ect. ect...takes the emotions out of play!...XON does something lile 75-80% of their business out of country so it's a foreign play to a degree...Have always wanted to own RD and will if the market crashes...great company!...

EWP: Yeah, 9.05% ain't bad fer these days...What I like about D.R.I.P.'S is that they are the ultimate timming device....cheaper they are the more ya buy..ect. ect...takes the emotions out of play!...XON does something lile 75-80% of their business out of country so it's a foreign play to a degree...Have always wanted to own RD and will if the market crashes...great company!...

Steve Puetz: A Boilermaker, eh? Heh heh.

Steve Puetz: A Boilermaker, eh? Heh heh.

EWP: I have expressed in previous posts ad nauseam the error in your perception. I just want people to get what they have/are paying for. They should stop borrowing from trust funds now and sock the money away. The 30 year olds are paying in big tine and should expect their money back at least. You and Ted have apparently benefited tremendously from the bull market in stocks which was and is assisted by raiding the SS and Medi Trust Funds thus keeping interest rates artificially low thereby contributing to the increase of your wealth through Govt Largesse at the expense of the SS and Medi paying young people of today. A broad based tax is the least you can do to give back some of the benefit you have derived by the Govt robbing money from todays young. Get off your love of govt benefits and for once take personal responsibility. The hypocrisy is as obvious as it is sickening. This is why the right wing is always doomed to ultimate failure.

I dont think tomorrow's youth should pay I think the beneficiaries of the robbery should pay and the robbery should stop now. A broad based tax is the ans. but really we should have a more direct tax on those who benefit from the theft like the securities industry and their fat cat clients.

I am 30 years from retirement to the Carribbean. Further, I might never retire as seeing financial institutions eat bad loans and use of the Fair Credit Act to sue them when they try to collect is just too much fun. I love counter suing the SOBs when they make even one error with one of my debtor clients. Because of this leverage, I am proud to say some of my clients have staved off Bankruptcy and actually ended up collecting from the creditors. The system works!!!

EWP: I have expressed in previous posts ad nauseam the error in your perception. I just want people to get what they have/are paying for. They should stop borrowing from trust funds now and sock the money away. The 30 year olds are paying in big tine and should expect their money back at least. You and Ted have apparently benefited tremendously from the bull market in stocks which was and is assisted by raiding the SS and Medi Trust Funds thus keeping interest rates artificially low thereby contributing to the increase of your wealth through Govt Largesse at the expense of the SS and Medi paying young people of today. A broad based tax is the least you can do to give back some of the benefit you have derived by the Govt robbing money from todays young. Get off your love of govt benefits and for once take personal responsibility. The hypocrisy is as obvious as it is sickening. This is why the right wing is always doomed to ultimate failure.

I dont think tomorrow's youth should pay I think the beneficiaries of the robbery should pay and the robbery should stop now. A broad based tax is the ans. but really we should have a more direct tax on those who benefit from the theft like the securities industry and their fat cat clients.

I am 30 years from retirement to the Carribbean. Further, I might never retire as seeing financial institutions eat bad loans and use of the Fair Credit Act to sue them when they try to collect is just too much fun. I love counter suing the SOBs when they make even one error with one of my debtor clients. Because of this leverage, I am proud to say some of my clients have staved off Bankruptcy and actually ended up collecting from the creditors. The system works!!!

Ted: ABX is probably, IMHO, one of the better seniors. HM and PDG are probably looking for acquisitions ( along with some others like CCH, etc. ) . Who? Good question.

Ted: ABX is probably, IMHO, one of the better seniors. HM and PDG are probably looking for acquisitions ( along with some others like CCH, etc. ) . Who? Good question.

Steve Puetz: I don't think a full-blown depression is in the cards..I've heard that rap for the past 13 years while the market has gone up...and up...Like I said I practice a life-style of SELF-SUFFICENTCY and I'm ready .......

Steve Puetz: I don't think a full-blown depression is in the cards..I've heard that rap for the past 13 years while the market has gone up...and up...Like I said I practice a life-style of SELF-SUFFICENTCY and I'm ready .......

WW: My brother is also a lawyer...he is currently in hiding in Bangkok Thailand...

WW: My brother is also a lawyer...he is currently in hiding in Bangkok Thailand...

WW: Has the current retiree collected more than they contribute for programs like Medi and SS?

Do you want somebody in their 20s or younger to pay for "our entitlements"?

That is what the 17 trillion in unfunded liabilities are all about.

WW: Has the current retiree collected more than they contribute for programs like Medi and SS?

Do you want somebody in their 20s or younger to pay for "our entitlements"?

That is what the 17 trillion in unfunded liabilities are all about.

EWP: KRY....Bema...

EWP: KRY....Bema...

WW: Where is the money you and I paid in FICA? I'll answer that. Govt. IOUs. Who will pay for that. You and I ... and especially those much younger. The financial structure is a ponzi scheme. Don't you agree?

WW: Where is the money you and I paid in FICA? I'll answer that. Govt. IOUs. Who will pay for that. You and I ... and especially those much younger. The financial structure is a ponzi scheme. Don't you agree?

EWP: Enjoyed talkin to ya and if ya feel like it e-mail me some time..I just noticed this gets a little ADDICTIVE and I gotta get off for a while and go down and listen to the ocean or somethin....WW: YOU still didn't tell me where you live.....is it that bad???...another evasive lawyer!

EWP: Enjoyed talkin to ya and if ya feel like it e-mail me some time..I just noticed this gets a little ADDICTIVE and I gotta get off for a while and go down and listen to the ocean or somethin....WW: YOU still didn't tell me where you live.....is it that bad???...another evasive lawyer!

WW:

Let me get this straight. Some guy borrows a bunch of money, finds out that he can't pay it back, and you blame this on the people who lent him the money. Sue their butts off huh? On the other hand, if the financial institution did not lend them the money, why then they would probably be guilty of discrimination. Sue 'em all big and small. Ever wonder why lawyers have a bad rep?

Ted: KRY is one Peter Grandich is betting his lungs on ( I get mailings from him ) . I guess we'll see. My homerun hitter is Bema ( I hope ) . They are supposed to release updates to their Cerro Casale deposit soon ( 27+ million oz. in gold and a bunch of copper ) that they partner with Arizona Star ( which Bema owns a percentage of ) . IMHO, anyone would have to be nuts to short BGO or AZS.

Ted: KRY is one Peter Grandich is betting his lungs on ( I get mailings from him ) . I guess we'll see. My homerun hitter is Bema ( I hope ) . They are supposed to release updates to their Cerro Casale deposit soon ( 27+ million oz. in gold and a bunch of copper ) that they partner with Arizona Star ( which Bema owns a percentage of ) . IMHO, anyone would have to be nuts to short BGO or AZS.

WW:

Let me get this straight. Some guy borrows a bunch of money, finds out that he can't pay it back, and you blame this on the people who lent him the money. Sue their butts off huh? On the other hand, if the financial institution did not lend them the money, why then they would probably be guilty of discrimination. Sue 'em all big and small. Ever wonder why lawyers have a bad rep?

Hey, Bob!! What's the story about you walking down the middle of the highway, in the rain, at mid-night, in the shady part of town, after your NCAA loss??????

Hey, Bob!! What's the story about you walking down the middle of the highway, in the rain, at mid-night, in the shady part of town, after your NCAA loss??????

NOVICE and Liz: If you think I am ignoring Kristine....you are wrong as she is out for the evening with friends.....and look at me blaberin away!

NOVICE and Liz: If you think I am ignoring Kristine....you are wrong as she is out for the evening with friends.....and look at me blaberin away!

D.A ( 21:34 ) Pathetic....ain't it!...I'm outta here....for a while! BYE..
So you left NYC too...eh..

Whats wrong with the under '20s paying for our entitlements? We have paid for everything they have worn, eaten, driven, lived in or worked in or been educated in or with.

Whats wrong with the under '20s paying for our entitlements? We have paid for everything they have worn, eaten, driven, lived in or worked in or been educated in or with.

D.A ( 21:34 ) Pathetic....ain't it!...I'm outta here....for a while! BYE..
So you left NYC too...eh..

WW: I agree with most of what you say, except: Why have any tax at all?
Whoever renders a service from any person or organization should be the person to pay. Get rid of government, except for defense. Pay for defense with either voluntary service or taxes for those who don't serve.

WW: I agree with most of what you say, except: Why have any tax at all?
Whoever renders a service from any person or organization should be the person to pay. Get rid of government, except for defense. Pay for defense with either voluntary service or taxes for those who don't serve.

Steve Puetz: Had to. Woulda broken a chair over
some reporter's head otherwise. I've gotta be
careful. I'm already wanted in Puerto Rico!

TED: You do have a good sense of humor!! You need to take the prospect of a depression more severe than the 1930 seriously, though.
Maybe you're too laid-back.

TED: You do have a good sense of humor!! You need to take the prospect of a depression more severe than the 1930 seriously, though.
Maybe you're too laid-back.

Steve Puetz: Had to. Woulda broken a chair over
some reporter's head otherwise. I've gotta be
careful. I'm already wanted in Puerto Rico!

EWP: 1 ) Stop the borrowing now and use the next 13 years of surpluses to invest in real investments or privatize the system and let the individuals choose where to put the money/In sum, end the IOU scam. The govt, of course, would have to borrow more in the mkt or raise taxes to cover the increased deficit of not raiding the Trust fund. I dont think those Free Mkt Capitalists on Wall St. would like such a policy. EWP Ques. are you for continuing to raid the trust fund and rob current workers of benefits they are paying for/
OR should we stop the raids and be honest and make up the difference by increased borrowing or taxes today and allow the NEXT 13 YEARS of surpluses to accumulate for those who made payment so the system will reliquify and not burden our grand children.

I think a broad based tax which is economically broad enough to not effect final demand will be necessary if they do not stop the fake IOU game. The crisis is really that the GOVT DOES NOT WANT TO PAY THE IOUs. Stop now or a broad based tax later is the only fair solution. Given the Demographics tomorrows politicians will have to figure out a way to pay the workers back for what they have paid in. I would really like to see an end to the IOUs and the Govt go out in the mkts and borrow the extra 200-300 million on 1998/99 and forward it would need without the use of the IOUs. WOULD YOU AGREE TO THIS AND CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN DEMANDING SUCH ACTION. Do you think Wall St would like this or do you think they would want to continue the IOU scheme and fatten their bottom lines at the expense of the taxpayers.

WW: I sympathize with your idea that a broad based tax should be implemented to pay for Soc. Sec.

In my view, Soc. Sec. IS a broad based tax. The idea that there is a trust fund is a joke. The system is a means of inter-generational transfer payments and I doubt it will ever be anything else. To fix it would require some one to come up with the 17 trillion and I doubt that is going to happen. When the baby boom bubble starts to become eligible for benefits, I look for a "muddle through" solution that will be a combination of means based benefits ( which has already occured through the tax code ) , older retirement age, higher current taxes, less favorable benefit adustments for inflation, etc.

WW: I sympathize with your idea that a broad based tax should be implemented to pay for Soc. Sec.

In my view, Soc. Sec. IS a broad based tax. The idea that there is a trust fund is a joke. The system is a means of inter-generational transfer payments and I doubt it will ever be anything else. To fix it would require some one to come up with the 17 trillion and I doubt that is going to happen. When the baby boom bubble starts to become eligible for benefits, I look for a "muddle through" solution that will be a combination of means based benefits ( which has already occured through the tax code ) , older retirement age, higher current taxes, less favorable benefit adustments for inflation, etc.

EWP: 1 ) Stop the borrowing now and use the next 13 years of surpluses to invest in real investments or privatize the system and let the individuals choose where to put the money/In sum, end the IOU scam. The govt, of course, would have to borrow more in the mkt or raise taxes to cover the increased deficit of not raiding the Trust fund. I dont think those Free Mkt Capitalists on Wall St. would like such a policy. EWP Ques. are you for continuing to raid the trust fund and rob current workers of benefits they are paying for/
OR should we stop the raids and be honest and make up the difference by increased borrowing or taxes today and allow the NEXT 13 YEARS of surpluses to accumulate for those who made payment so the system will reliquify and not burden our grand children.

I think a broad based tax which is economically broad enough to not effect final demand will be necessary if they do not stop the fake IOU game. The crisis is really that the GOVT DOES NOT WANT TO PAY THE IOUs. Stop now or a broad based tax later is the only fair solution. Given the Demographics tomorrows politicians will have to figure out a way to pay the workers back for what they have paid in. I would really like to see an end to the IOUs and the Govt go out in the mkts and borrow the extra 200-300 million on 1998/99 and forward it would need without the use of the IOUs. WOULD YOU AGREE TO THIS AND CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN DEMANDING SUCH ACTION. Do you think Wall St would like this or do you think they would want to continue the IOU scheme and fatten their bottom lines at the expense of the taxpayers.

Steve P. ,,,
Great idea, just let the poor fight your wars for you. After they've trimmed the hedge and hauled the trash, of course.

Zeeb: I guess nothing if you feel it is okay to pass on a declining standard of living. I personally feel that society should try to pass on an equal or better life for their children. That won't be happening with the current trend of the old third rail. These programs were designed when people weren't supposed to live much past 65.

Zeeb: I guess nothing if you feel it is okay to pass on a declining standard of living. I personally feel that society should try to pass on an equal or better life for their children. That won't be happening with the current trend of the old third rail. These programs were designed when people weren't supposed to live much past 65.

Steve P. ,,,
Great idea, just let the poor fight your wars for you. After they've trimmed the hedge and hauled the trash, of course.

EWP: Ponzi must be smiling now. He probably never imagined what it was that he started. The gov't outlaws Ponzi Schemes, the Gov't creates the grandest Ponzi Scheme ever imagined. More of the gov't attitude of "Do as I say, not as I do."

EWP: Ponzi must be smiling now. He probably never imagined what it was that he started. The gov't outlaws Ponzi Schemes, the Gov't creates the grandest Ponzi Scheme ever imagined. More of the gov't attitude of "Do as I say, not as I do."

WW: If you raise taxes or create new revenue grabs, you just are continuing the ponzi scheme. SS is not a pension. It is old age insurance. Medicare is subsidized health care with people living much longer than when the system was implemented. In the 30s - SS will never cost that much, In the 60s - Medicare will never cost that much. SS and Medi are 1 and 3 in govt. spending. Medi will pass defense spending soon.

WW: If you raise taxes or create new revenue grabs, you just are continuing the ponzi scheme. SS is not a pension. It is old age insurance. Medicare is subsidized health care with people living much longer than when the system was implemented. In the 30s - SS will never cost that much, In the 60s - Medicare will never cost that much. SS and Medi are 1 and 3 in govt. spending. Medi will pass defense spending soon.

CRYSTALLEX INTERNATIONAL - Many have been watching the stellar price rise in KRY. Heres WHY:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/grandich_512.html
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/grandich_jan.html
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/goldbug418.html

CRYSTALLEX INTERNATIONAL - Many have been watching the stellar price rise in KRY. Heres WHY:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/grandich_512.html
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/grandich_jan.html
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/goldbug418.html

My standard of living is infinity better today than it was when I was an under 20. I'm living better than the last King of England. So is every one who is connected to this site. The gloom and doom and ain't it awful and the world as we know it is going to get worse is really a rite of passage here. Until it gets worse things have never been better.

Steve, im with you on the outlook for Gold. This is one hell of a tough time to be a Goldbug, but I am convinced, like you, that it will pay off.
The only question to be answered is when.
Meanwhile the masses continue to pump their savings into overpriced equities, and the deception goes on. Maybee 7900 Dow tomorrow,
8500 next week. At these levels the risk reward ratio has to be deadlier than a minefield. Irrational exuberence, naw that went out at the 5500 level ( What happened to Greenspan and his warnings anyway??? ) .
Steve, keep on informing those very few who still listen.........

Steve, im with you on the outlook for Gold. This is one hell of a tough time to be a Goldbug, but I am convinced, like you, that it will pay off.
The only question to be answered is when.
Meanwhile the masses continue to pump their savings into overpriced equities, and the deception goes on. Maybee 7900 Dow tomorrow,
8500 next week. At these levels the risk reward ratio has to be deadlier than a minefield. Irrational exuberence, naw that went out at the 5500 level ( What happened to Greenspan and his warnings anyway??? ) .
Steve, keep on informing those very few who still listen.........

My standard of living is infinity better today than it was when I was an under 20. I'm living better than the last King of England. So is every one who is connected to this site. The gloom and doom and ain't it awful and the world as we know it is going to get worse is really a rite of passage here. Until it gets worse things have never been better.

Steve P.: yep.

Reb: Age needs to be raised aggressively and serious CPI adjustment. Will it happen. Doubt it. Republicans have some plan to raise it to 67 by 2028 or something. That is a joke. Democrats probably have no plan because it flys against their campaign rhetoric.

For the brave only! This graphic is rated 'H' for hazardous to your finances. :- ) ) Now that we have a well defined triangle, which is supposed to break lower... Anyone have comments? Is gold forecasting a 'problem'? Could this be leading to the break out ( up ) ? Technically, we should break lower, but gold seems to be finding good support at $340. What to do, oh what to do?

WW: It's too late to save our financial system. Any attempt, now, to pay off government debt would be deflationary -- and start a depression. On the other hand, any further increase in debts will bankrupt the country beyond repair. It's a catch-22. The system is doomed no matter which direction we go. Escape the system, and get into gold and silver coins.

WW: It's too late to save our financial system. Any attempt, now, to pay off government debt would be deflationary -- and start a depression. On the other hand, any further increase in debts will bankrupt the country beyond repair. It's a catch-22. The system is doomed no matter which direction we go. Escape the system, and get into gold and silver coins.

For the brave only! This graphic is rated 'H' for hazardous to your finances. :- ) ) Now that we have a well defined triangle, which is supposed to break lower... Anyone have comments? Is gold forecasting a 'problem'? Could this be leading to the break out ( up ) ? Technically, we should break lower, but gold seems to be finding good support at $340. What to do, oh what to do?

Steve P.: yep.

Reb: Age needs to be raised aggressively and serious CPI adjustment. Will it happen. Doubt it. Republicans have some plan to raise it to 67 by 2028 or something. That is a joke. Democrats probably have no plan because it flys against their campaign rhetoric.

All:

Now that I have learned why gold is such a lousy investment, I think I'm going to buy some. Maybe even a lot. It used to be that at Kitco when an anti-goldbug showed up he got squashed. Now they are revered for their balanced opinions. It used to be at Kitco that when the XAU outperformed gold that this was predictive of a rise in gold. Now its because the stock market it going up and this is just another shorting opportunity, because the volume is weak and some gold fund has not performed up to par. I won't go out on that limb that says gold is going up from here, but I'll wager its not going down. If the boys and girls at Kitco can no longer hoist the flag, there can't be much risk anymore.

P.S. We bought a load of May 625 calls in Silver. Hope they work as well as Palladium.

EWP,,,
"society should try..." what is this thinking?
Puetz,,, Government's sole purpose is to protect the strong from the weak. Without it the "bent twig" of humanity always turns to tear those foundations of burdensome tyrany into the mulch of a new order. The United States is an example of this, is it not?

EWP,,,
"society should try..." what is this thinking?
Puetz,,, Government's sole purpose is to protect the strong from the weak. Without it the "bent twig" of humanity always turns to tear those foundations of burdensome tyrany into the mulch of a new order. The United States is an example of this, is it not?

All:

Now that I have learned why gold is such a lousy investment, I think I'm going to buy some. Maybe even a lot. It used to be that at Kitco when an anti-goldbug showed up he got squashed. Now they are revered for their balanced opinions. It used to be at Kitco that when the XAU outperformed gold that this was predictive of a rise in gold. Now its because the stock market it going up and this is just another shorting opportunity, because the volume is weak and some gold fund has not performed up to par. I won't go out on that limb that says gold is going up from here, but I'll wager its not going down. If the boys and girls at Kitco can no longer hoist the flag, there can't be much risk anymore.

P.S. We bought a load of May 625 calls in Silver. Hope they work as well as Palladium.

Steve: Say something we haven't already heard. Like support for your for your $20,0000 gold prediction--your Hallmark prediction.

Steve: Say something we haven't already heard. Like support for your for your $20,0000 gold prediction--your Hallmark prediction.

More Gold: Thanks.

More Gold: Thanks.

Zeeb: I would suggest reading some Richard Lamm, Pete Peterson, Warren Rudman, CATO Institute, etc. if you think things will be so economically sound for the younger generations ( and provide as much opportunity that you and I have probably enjoyed ) .

Zeeb: I would suggest reading some Richard Lamm, Pete Peterson, Warren Rudman, CATO Institute, etc. if you think things will be so economically sound for the younger generations ( and provide as much opportunity that you and I have probably enjoyed ) .

EWP: the "longevity" argument does not hold water as that is why they increased the tax many times over the years in recognition of this obvious fact. SS has to be paid and instead of the IOUss why not mandate that the money not being replaced by IOUs in the new system go into buying marketable Treasury's so there would not be a sudden increase in borrowing. Of course each participant would have the power to sell the Treasury into the mkt upon retirement and collect the proceeds. Or EWP are you for the Federal Govt controlling everyone's property when it helps you.

SS and Medi are Property and that is why they are called "Entitlements" anyone who meets the criteria can sue in Federal ct for benefits. Just as you could sue the govt if they took your house. Thank God for the judiciary.

EWP: the "longevity" argument does not hold water as that is why they increased the tax many times over the years in recognition of this obvious fact. SS has to be paid and instead of the IOUss why not mandate that the money not being replaced by IOUs in the new system go into buying marketable Treasury's so there would not be a sudden increase in borrowing. Of course each participant would have the power to sell the Treasury into the mkt upon retirement and collect the proceeds. Or EWP are you for the Federal Govt controlling everyone's property when it helps you.

SS and Medi are Property and that is why they are called "Entitlements" anyone who meets the criteria can sue in Federal ct for benefits. Just as you could sue the govt if they took your house. Thank God for the judiciary.

EWP: I have no need to read any marginal publications. We are riding the crest of the post WW2 prosperity and leaving the under 20s with some debt. What is wrong with that?

Panda: I'm with you. Gold has had good support in the $335-340 area. The positive sign is than gold hasn't broken below this support -- even though the DJIA keeps soaring. Once the DJIA starts its crash, $340 should be a good springboard for gold to launch it's next buul move.

Panda: I'm with you. Gold has had good support in the $335-340 area. The positive sign is than gold hasn't broken below this support -- even though the DJIA keeps soaring. Once the DJIA starts its crash, $340 should be a good springboard for gold to launch it's next buul move.

EWP: I have no need to read any marginal publications. We are riding the crest of the post WW2 prosperity and leaving the under 20s with some debt. What is wrong with that?

I apologize if people don't think the entitlement quagmire is not important to this discussion group. I think it is very relevant. Govt. will either choose a delationary or inflationary tactic to deal with it, IMHO rather than dealing with serious CPI adjustments and age requirements ( which would probably be somewhat deflationary itself ) . The deflationary approach to promote slow growth to keep interest rates and inflation down won't grow the economy and revenues fast enough to keep up with the spending train. The inflationary approach would pretty much level the middle class and poor.

I apologize if people don't think the entitlement quagmire is not important to this discussion group. I think it is very relevant. Govt. will either choose a delationary or inflationary tactic to deal with it, IMHO rather than dealing with serious CPI adjustments and age requirements ( which would probably be somewhat deflationary itself ) . The deflationary approach to promote slow growth to keep interest rates and inflation down won't grow the economy and revenues fast enough to keep up with the spending train. The inflationary approach would pretty much level the middle class and poor.

QT: The function of government is to protect individual liberties. It has been proven time-and-again, that the more individual freedom people have in a nation, the more prosperous a nation becomes. Not only do the strong and intelligent, benefit -- but so do less talented people.

QT: The function of government is to protect individual liberties. It has been proven time-and-again, that the more individual freedom people have in a nation, the more prosperous a nation becomes. Not only do the strong and intelligent, benefit -- but so do less talented people.

Steve Puetz -- I thankyou for the fine regard you give to my understanding of of this dismal debt based, slaveryment, monetary system we currently live under. I too admire your postings! To a great degree! I would most certainly enjoy believing that 'there is no problem', as I'm sure most goldbugs would. I would also, and most certainly, enjoy a good discussion from one of those mentalities as to why there is no problem! If that person were REEEEEEALLLLLL good at the explanation, I might even be tempted to fall for it, except for the knowledge that ALL debt based systems already have their end written with their beginning! No ifs, ands or buts about it! So, maybe, one smart individual out there can set me straight, including my previous sentence. I would most assuredly welcome it! As always, lurkin' and ready! Steve, as why I do not post more, perhaps when Bart gets his 'search' up and going, you'll go back and peruse. I've got 'a few' back there! But, at times, one gets tired of so much duplication, as I said to Earl a few nights ago. Perhaps I'll again 'get with it'. Again, thanks!

Zeeb: come on ... it is a lot more than a little debt. I guess you feel it can just be inflated away?

Zeeb: come on ... it is a lot more than a little debt. I guess you feel it can just be inflated away?

Steve Puetz -- I thankyou for the fine regard you give to my understanding of of this dismal debt based, slaveryment, monetary system we currently live under. I too admire your postings! To a great degree! I would most certainly enjoy believing that 'there is no problem', as I'm sure most goldbugs would. I would also, and most certainly, enjoy a good discussion from one of those mentalities as to why there is no problem! If that person were REEEEEEALLLLLL good at the explanation, I might even be tempted to fall for it, except for the knowledge that ALL debt based systems already have their end written with their beginning! No ifs, ands or buts about it! So, maybe, one smart individual out there can set me straight, including my previous sentence. I would most assuredly welcome it! As always, lurkin' and ready! Steve, as why I do not post more, perhaps when Bart gets his 'search' up and going, you'll go back and peruse. I've got 'a few' back there! But, at times, one gets tired of so much duplication, as I said to Earl a few nights ago. Perhaps I'll again 'get with it'. Again, thanks!

Ted: Kristine's out tonight, eh? Thought you were unusually active on this site tonite! Hope she's not bein indoctrinated by Breton pinkos... BTW, a positive writeup on yer ABX in latest Incvestors Digest ( 6 June issue ) . Says Barrick cheaper than its peers, and performance should improve during second half of this year.

Overheard you and EWP discussing Bema and Arizona Star a bit here this evening, and who may be in line to acquire Star and the Cerro Casale property. Holding both BGO and AZS, I follow the SI Bema thread pretty carefully. While the betting there seems to be on PDG, a few have noted that Bema's Clive Johnson is in Europe right now at the same time Homestake's Jack Thompson is there too. The latter saying he's looking at acquisitions ( as well as further exploration and improved performance at existing operations ) . Will know sooner or later the outcome...and it better be sooner the way Star is sagging right now.

Oh, one final thing...we're of to the Bruce Peninsula tomorrow a.m. for weekend of shoppin'. I can hear the criticisms of me work ethic now...:- ) )

Ted: Kristine's out tonight, eh? Thought you were unusually active on this site tonite! Hope she's not bein indoctrinated by Breton pinkos... BTW, a positive writeup on yer ABX in latest Incvestors Digest ( 6 June issue ) . Says Barrick cheaper than its peers, and performance should improve during second half of this year.

Overheard you and EWP discussing Bema and Arizona Star a bit here this evening, and who may be in line to acquire Star and the Cerro Casale property. Holding both BGO and AZS, I follow the SI Bema thread pretty carefully. While the betting there seems to be on PDG, a few have noted that Bema's Clive Johnson is in Europe right now at the same time Homestake's Jack Thompson is there too. The latter saying he's looking at acquisitions ( as well as further exploration and improved performance at existing operations ) . Will know sooner or later the outcome...and it better be sooner the way Star is sagging right now.

Oh, one final thing...we're of to the Bruce Peninsula tomorrow a.m. for weekend of shoppin'. I can hear the criticisms of me work ethic now...:- ) )

WW: When does your raise tax rates theory approach a person paying most of their wages to support the govt? Is that good for economic growth and competitiveness in a global economy? Do you advocate cutting spending to make up for the use of surplus trust funds? About 143 billion in different trust funds were used last year mask the deficit size. Where would that be made up? Would you just have it as deficit spending?

WW: When does your raise tax rates theory approach a person paying most of their wages to support the govt? Is that good for economic growth and competitiveness in a global economy? Do you advocate cutting spending to make up for the use of surplus trust funds? About 143 billion in different trust funds were used last year mask the deficit size. Where would that be made up? Would you just have it as deficit spending?

Dennis: That fact that gold may rise to $20,000 may be somewhat misleading. It's not so much that gold will rise, but that the value of financial assets will collapse. Fear of default on credit-market instruments wiil be intense. Stock market losses will be unbelievable for most. The scramble to get into gold will be extreme. But with physical supplies so limited, gold will skyrocket. It will be a lot like the platinum squeeze of the past weeks -- only the squeeze will last for over a year.

Dennis: That fact that gold may rise to $20,000 may be somewhat misleading. It's not so much that gold will rise, but that the value of financial assets will collapse. Fear of default on credit-market instruments wiil be intense. Stock market losses will be unbelievable for most. The scramble to get into gold will be extreme. But with physical supplies so limited, gold will skyrocket. It will be a lot like the platinum squeeze of the past weeks -- only the squeeze will last for over a year.

Steve Puetz -- I keep on wondering how much longer can this credit bubble be pumped up? The Dow, S&P500 and 100, continue to rise. The Amex oil index continues to rise even with crude falling. If you bought one XOI contract yesterday, ten minutes before the close ( June 420 Call ) and sold it today ten minutes before the close, you would have made $575 less commisions. Why work? Where did the 'value' come from? What's wrong with this picture? I know of one person who has about a thirty percent return so far, in an S&P 500 index fund, held less than a year. This is considered a 'good' return. Not, 'abnormal' return, just good. Interesting times are coming... Then again, maybe their already here.

Steve Puetz -- I keep on wondering how much longer can this credit bubble be pumped up? The Dow, S&P500 and 100, continue to rise. The Amex oil index continues to rise even with crude falling. If you bought one XOI contract yesterday, ten minutes before the close ( June 420 Call ) and sold it today ten minutes before the close, you would have made $575 less commisions. Why work? Where did the 'value' come from? What's wrong with this picture? I know of one person who has about a thirty percent return so far, in an S&P 500 index fund, held less than a year. This is considered a 'good' return. Not, 'abnormal' return, just good. Interesting times are coming... Then again, maybe their already here.

Why doesn't the government buy half of the US gold
production with incoming Social Security Funds, that is;
before they give the rest away? It will help the real
value of the US gold stash rise and solve a part of the
problem.
Now rather than give the rest of those funds away, let
the indivigual invest the rest in Swiss Annuities, the
PM's, but under the same restrictions as IRA's and
401-K's. Swiss insurance companies are wise, our
government can demand, that they do not invest where it
will hurt.
Next, limit fractional reserve banking and pay off the US
Treasuries ( in increments ) with government issued money.
Then slowly return to a gold backed currency, or real
money.
Can't see $20,000 gold, because who would be able to buy
it, or we may be buying groceries using trucks formerly
used to haul ore from open pit mines.

Why doesn't the government buy half of the US gold
production with incoming Social Security Funds, that is;
before they give the rest away? It will help the real
value of the US gold stash rise and solve a part of the
problem.
Now rather than give the rest of those funds away, let
the indivigual invest the rest in Swiss Annuities, the
PM's, but under the same restrictions as IRA's and
401-K's. Swiss insurance companies are wise, our
government can demand, that they do not invest where it
will hurt.
Next, limit fractional reserve banking and pay off the US
Treasuries ( in increments ) with government issued money.
Then slowly return to a gold backed currency, or real
money.
Can't see $20,000 gold, because who would be able to buy
it, or we may be buying groceries using trucks formerly
used to haul ore from open pit mines.

D.A.
Thanks for your reply yesterday on Forward buybacks.
I echo your comments that it does seem to be getting more bearish around here ( amazing at Kitco ) .
Also your SI Calls would have a nice low delta ready to go to work for you on any rally, good luck with the position.
Happy Trading All

D.A.
Thanks for your reply yesterday on Forward buybacks.
I echo your comments that it does seem to be getting more bearish around here ( amazing at Kitco ) .
Also your SI Calls would have a nice low delta ready to go to work for you on any rally, good luck with the position.
Happy Trading All

Eldorado: In my community, my ideas are scorned and laughed at. Sometimes I feel the same way on this Web-site. But, it's nice to know that there are a few people out there that do think the same way I do. By your comments, I assume that you believe, as I do, that we are headed for an extreme deflation -- more severe than the 1930s.

Eldorado: In my community, my ideas are scorned and laughed at. Sometimes I feel the same way on this Web-site. But, it's nice to know that there are a few people out there that do think the same way I do. By your comments, I assume that you believe, as I do, that we are headed for an extreme deflation -- more severe than the 1930s.

Steve Puetz -- It seems I can't even spell correctly now! their = they're. With that said, and rhetoric flying, it's time to give the eyes some rest. Good night all and remember, Dow 4,893,485,645,436,345 is only a few days away! Buy now! Tomorrow is FRIDAY the 13th. :- ) ) :- ) ) :- ) )

Steve Puetz -- It seems I can't even spell correctly now! their = they're. With that said, and rhetoric flying, it's time to give the eyes some rest. Good night all and remember, Dow 4,893,485,645,436,345 is only a few days away! Buy now! Tomorrow is FRIDAY the 13th. :- ) ) :- ) ) :- ) )

Crystal Ball -- Gold may look like lead at this point, but like a Gooney Bird, it will eventually get its ass off the ground! and he'll be heading straight up to blue skys! Count on it. Just don't ask me how long of a run-way it'll need!

Crystal Ball -- Gold may look like lead at this point, but like a Gooney Bird, it will eventually get its ass off the ground! and he'll be heading straight up to blue skys! Count on it. Just don't ask me how long of a run-way it'll need!

Panda: The fact that retail sales have declined for 3 months in a row indicates that recession may have already started. Hence, the coming stock market crash is probably close-at-hand. The major part of all-but-one stock bears has been contained in the July-October period. A lot of people are looking for an October crash. However, July is just as likely.

Panda: The fact that retail sales have declined for 3 months in a row indicates that recession may have already started. Hence, the coming stock market crash is probably close-at-hand. The major part of all-but-one stock bears has been contained in the July-October period. A lot of people are looking for an October crash. However, July is just as likely.

Your idea is too simple and down-to-earth for the government to consider it.

Your idea is too simple and down-to-earth for the government to consider it.

Steve; You said it: $20,000 gold. Squeeze you bet it is. Get off the bike what you say here goes into the archieves.

Yeah, but that gold-jet is getting closer to the take-off point every day.

Yeah, but that gold-jet is getting closer to the take-off point every day.

Steve; You said it: $20,000 gold. Squeeze you bet it is. Get off the bike what you say here goes into the archieves.

Steve Puetz -- Re: your 22:26; Yes I do, at some point in time. Probably 'more' sooner than later. I would really like to know how it can be any other way! Anybody?

Steve Puetz -- Re: your 22:26; Yes I do, at some point in time. Probably 'more' sooner than later. I would really like to know how it can be any other way! Anybody?

Puetz,,, I am sorry. I must admit I was a bit harsh there. I mean we all know that strength, financial or otherwise, naturally implies a native intelligenge the lessor born simply must feel thankfull to be near. I suppose they feel safer, more secure. It harkens them back to some genetic memory of the tribe near the fire in the cave. They watched the alpha-male drag the apendage of some corpse in to warm it by the flame. Watched and waited until his/her time to have at it. And all the time they waited they probably thought about how much they were going to benefit by being a member of this tribe with the great hunter.
I have posed this in such a way that those Ayn Rand fans out there can run one way with it, the way of all great "Leviathan"'s, and I have used the phrase "tribe" so the Marxian socialists, or the democratic federaliists, can see it as a parallel to the fiscal dilemas which haunt us to this day.

In all good fun, of course. However I digress. ( Isn't it really scarey sometimes when you notice how of the character of a site's dialogue can be defined by the degree of intellectual narcissism the inmates of the site allow? ) What I was really going to say was congrad's my boy. I read a great review of your "TC" in the Soldier of Fortune zine. The editor, has some Prussian sounding name as I recall, likened you to the "Tom Paine" of the mercenary cum militia back to the cavers set. Bit of an acolade that. I do think he went a bit overboard though. I mean your page position, opposite the cover story essay about the Waco/ McVeigh connections, was a bit declasse' if I may say so myself. But who cares really, at least the people who will survive the great collapse will have somethig to barter with over the corpse of this civilization you are so willing to toss aside out of hand.
Etcerata,,,
This really has nothing whatsoever to do with the metals which drew me here, but then on every picnic a little honey must be spread. Cheers.

Puetz,,, I am sorry. I must admit I was a bit harsh there. I mean we all know that strength, financial or otherwise, naturally implies a native intelligenge the lessor born simply must feel thankfull to be near. I suppose they feel safer, more secure. It harkens them back to some genetic memory of the tribe near the fire in the cave. They watched the alpha-male drag the apendage of some corpse in to warm it by the flame. Watched and waited until his/her time to have at it. And all the time they waited they probably thought about how much they were going to benefit by being a member of this tribe with the great hunter.
I have posed this in such a way that those Ayn Rand fans out there can run one way with it, the way of all great "Leviathan"'s, and I have used the phrase "tribe" so the Marxian socialists, or the democratic federaliists, can see it as a parallel to the fiscal dilemas which haunt us to this day.

In all good fun, of course. However I digress. ( Isn't it really scarey sometimes when you notice how of the character of a site's dialogue can be defined by the degree of intellectual narcissism the inmates of the site allow? ) What I was really going to say was congrad's my boy. I read a great review of your "TC" in the Soldier of Fortune zine. The editor, has some Prussian sounding name as I recall, likened you to the "Tom Paine" of the mercenary cum militia back to the cavers set. Bit of an acolade that. I do think he went a bit overboard though. I mean your page position, opposite the cover story essay about the Waco/ McVeigh connections, was a bit declasse' if I may say so myself. But who cares really, at least the people who will survive the great collapse will have somethig to barter with over the corpse of this civilization you are so willing to toss aside out of hand.
Etcerata,,,
This really has nothing whatsoever to do with the metals which drew me here, but then on every picnic a little honey must be spread. Cheers.

Good night all!! It's been fun, and interesting.

Good night all!! It's been fun, and interesting.

EWP: I AM AGAINST EVER!! RAISING TAX RATES ON ANYONE TO MAKE UP THE SS AND MEDI DEFICITS!!!! I am for stopping the raids and privatizing the system so people control their own money/ Granted this could cause some short term financing problems for the Feds. Absent that I propose a broad based tax which will be so small in effect on the ITEMS taxed that it will have almost no econmomic effect on demand for the items taxed. Not supplying SS and Medi will cause an Econ depression from its effect on reducing final demand. Further SS and Medi fraud should be punished by mandatory jail sentences. The price insensitivity caused by these govt programs is what is making Health care unaffordable. Addressing this issue should be NUMERO UNO!
I am for a small tax on things to fund the program and not a rate increase. This will only be necessary if the kitty continues under IOU attack.
Why use IOUs why not just mandate the buying of marketable Treasuries and let the retirees proportionately cash them in when they reach retirement? Hmmm...

EWP: I AM AGAINST EVER!! RAISING TAX RATES ON ANYONE TO MAKE UP THE SS AND MEDI DEFICITS!!!! I am for stopping the raids and privatizing the system so people control their own money/ Granted this could cause some short term financing problems for the Feds. Absent that I propose a broad based tax which will be so small in effect on the ITEMS taxed that it will have almost no econmomic effect on demand for the items taxed. Not supplying SS and Medi will cause an Econ depression from its effect on reducing final demand. Further SS and Medi fraud should be punished by mandatory jail sentences. The price insensitivity caused by these govt programs is what is making Health care unaffordable. Addressing this issue should be NUMERO UNO!
I am for a small tax on things to fund the program and not a rate increase. This will only be necessary if the kitty continues under IOU attack.
Why use IOUs why not just mandate the buying of marketable Treasuries and let the retirees proportionately cash them in when they reach retirement? Hmmm...

Steve Puetz -- I'll be reading RJs rational next week for his reasons why the western financial system ( If I read that correctly ) will not collapse, with a very keen eye! I know of a lot of reasons why THEY don't want it to collapse, as well as any sane person wouldn't want it to. I'm really curious as to how they might, even remotely, pull it off! Comment ( s ) ?

Steve Puetz -- I'll be reading RJs rational next week for his reasons why the western financial system ( If I read that correctly ) will not collapse, with a very keen eye! I know of a lot of reasons why THEY don't want it to collapse, as well as any sane person wouldn't want it to. I'm really curious as to how they might, even remotely, pull it off! Comment ( s ) ?

Whenever I hear on this discussion group how sorry we are for those
young people who must pay for current retirees who have not contributed
enough to pay for their entitlements..... it makes me SICK. WW has it
right! Where has the money gone? It has gone to the elite 1% of our
population the super rich. I doubt very seriously whether anyone on Kitco
has ever met one of the super rich, yet many on this site defend them,
why? This one percent holds 90% of the wealth. Please let me repeat
that, one percent owns 90% of the wealth. And if you believe they got
their money by "just hard work," or by way of "the fair capitalistic
system," I have a bridge to sell you. Ninety percent of this one percent
inherited money and cheated to create and increase their holdings. As far as I am concerned if you want to find money for future entitlements, tax this one percent until they are part of the next nine percent. What does one man do with more than 1 billion dollars anyway? After the first
billion it is all about power and ego.

Whenever I hear on this discussion group how sorry we are for those
young people who must pay for current retirees who have not contributed
enough to pay for their entitlements..... it makes me SICK. WW has it
right! Where has the money gone? It has gone to the elite 1% of our
population the super rich. I doubt very seriously whether anyone on Kitco
has ever met one of the super rich, yet many on this site defend them,
why? This one percent holds 90% of the wealth. Please let me repeat
that, one percent owns 90% of the wealth. And if you believe they got
their money by "just hard work," or by way of "the fair capitalistic
system," I have a bridge to sell you. Ninety percent of this one percent
inherited money and cheated to create and increase their holdings. As far as I am concerned if you want to find money for future entitlements, tax this one percent until they are part of the next nine percent. What does one man do with more than 1 billion dollars anyway? After the first
billion it is all about power and ego.

What about the fundamental actuarial problems of the system? You never answer those questions ( i.e. Does a current recipient get more than they put in, etc. ) .

A small tax that noone will feel? What small tax can come up with the money needed for the unfunded liabilities and the use of surplus funds?

What about the fundamental actuarial problems of the system? You never answer those questions ( i.e. Does a current recipient get more than they put in, etc. ) .

A small tax that noone will feel? What small tax can come up with the money needed for the unfunded liabilities and the use of surplus funds?

GO Bernie!!!

GO Bernie!!!

to Bernie .. Sanders or Ward?

A man with a billion dollars creates jobs or spends it in the private sector of the economy. A govt. with a billion dollars creates future obligation for the taxpayers.

to Bernie .. Sanders or Ward?

A man with a billion dollars creates jobs or spends it in the private sector of the economy. A govt. with a billion dollars creates future obligation for the taxpayers.

A 5-10cent VAT on everything would do alot more than the trick. Go figure the numbers based on the economy. Th problem is easily solved with the appropriate political will.

A 5-10cent VAT on everything would do alot more than the trick. Go figure the numbers based on the economy. Th problem is easily solved with the appropriate political will.

Nighty night all ... don't let the goldbugs bite.

Nighty night all ... don't let the goldbugs bite.

WW: and in 5 years that VAT becomes 0.25 and so on and so on ( and outpacing inflation ) .

WW: and in 5 years that VAT becomes 0.25 and so on and so on ( and outpacing inflation ) .

Couldn't believe XAU was running up on the end and just had to take a stab on the short side....With tomorrow being settlement on the options, figured the big boys had some options they needed to zero out at 105... Oh well guess tomorrow will tell....

Couldn't believe XAU was running up on the end and just had to take a stab on the short side....With tomorrow being settlement on the options, figured the big boys had some options they needed to zero out at 105... Oh well guess tomorrow will tell....

EWP....A million people with 1million ( 1 billion ) also creates jobs and spends it in the private sector, probably much more efficiently and FAIRLY than the billionaire. I do not believe taxing the 1% super rich will create future obligations for the bottom 99%.

EWP....A million people with 1million ( 1 billion ) also creates jobs and spends it in the private sector, probably much more efficiently and FAIRLY than the billionaire. I do not believe taxing the 1% super rich will create future obligations for the bottom 99%.

EWP,,, I suppose it's too late to point out to you that it is only under the gracious beneficent protection , nuturing ethics of liberty and freedom which the "Government" provides your billionaire that he has his ability to exist. The "Government" allows him to exist. The "Government" can, and they are fickle creatures, these, choose otherwise.
All this take it-for-granted, feel-good pop culture shooting the mouth from the hip jingoism is too much to bear at times. It is dull and lacks vigor. I wish you'd stop it. It's beneath you. Think things through and then post something a bit more cogent, will you?

EWP,,, I suppose it's too late to point out to you that it is only under the gracious beneficent protection , nuturing ethics of liberty and freedom which the "Government" provides your billionaire that he has his ability to exist. The "Government" allows him to exist. The "Government" can, and they are fickle creatures, these, choose otherwise.
All this take it-for-granted, feel-good pop culture shooting the mouth from the hip jingoism is too much to bear at times. It is dull and lacks vigor. I wish you'd stop it. It's beneath you. Think things through and then post something a bit more cogent, will you?

EARL ET AL: I try not to post on the technical side of the market, preferring to leave that to those more skilled. But I would like to pass these comments on for your consideration.

Dow and S&P are making new highs in a parabolic sweep that have reached vertical lift while the Utilities have yet to come close to matching their 93 highs and the technology leaders which represent the major growth in the GDP are being distributed, displaying a pattern and cause for at least a sharp correction in the Dow.

News on what the FED will be doing in early July will begin to emerge in the Media. Although all present price reports makes for a rosy looking economy, the FED must consider the effect of emerging signs of impending inflation rising from an over-heated labor market, GDP output gap and wealth brought about by a sharply rising stock market which normally takes 12 months or more before being reflected in the PPI an CPI. What is FED to do? If it does nothing, these inflation forces will have more time to grow and the FED incurs the risk of being behind in the yield curve. In addition, the market will likely continue its irrational exuberance, if I may use this now trite phrase, making it more difficult to control any correction and the FED itself will increasing look like it has relaxed its guard against inflation and pandering to the political wing. If the FED surprises the market and elects to raise rates, how will this affect the afterburners of the Dow skyrocket and cannot the FED be concerned about being blamed for any blowout.

The XAU has been generally in a horizontal trading pattern since early may while bullion has been downtrending and the stock market rising. While bullion and silver settled near intermediate trend lows today, the XAU diverged higher and closed near its daily high and significantly higher from its recent low of 90+ and is approaching upper resistance of 106 with gold off over $2.00.

To me, these are all bullish possiblities for the metal. I take the approach that equities demonstrate a view of the longer term horizon while bullion the near term horizon. And IMO the recent relative peformance of the XAU should not be overlooked as it may be evidencing that investors with a longer term view are beginning to accumulate notwithstanding falling bullion, falling silver, an exuberant rising market, falling oil, rising bonds, declining CRB, and a parade of modest to low numbers on present inflation.

EARL ET AL: I try not to post on the technical side of the market, preferring to leave that to those more skilled. But I would like to pass these comments on for your consideration.

Dow and S&P are making new highs in a parabolic sweep that have reached vertical lift while the Utilities have yet to come close to matching their 93 highs and the technology leaders which represent the major growth in the GDP are being distributed, displaying a pattern and cause for at least a sharp correction in the Dow.

News on what the FED will be doing in early July will begin to emerge in the Media. Although all present price reports makes for a rosy looking economy, the FED must consider the effect of emerging signs of impending inflation rising from an over-heated labor market, GDP output gap and wealth brought about by a sharply rising stock market which normally takes 12 months or more before being reflected in the PPI an CPI. What is FED to do? If it does nothing, these inflation forces will have more time to grow and the FED incurs the risk of being behind in the yield curve. In addition, the market will likely continue its irrational exuberance, if I may use this now trite phrase, making it more difficult to control any correction and the FED itself will increasing look like it has relaxed its guard against inflation and pandering to the political wing. If the FED surprises the market and elects to raise rates, how will this affect the afterburners of the Dow skyrocket and cannot the FED be concerned about being blamed for any blowout.

The XAU has been generally in a horizontal trading pattern since early may while bullion has been downtrending and the stock market rising. While bullion and silver settled near intermediate trend lows today, the XAU diverged higher and closed near its daily high and significantly higher from its recent low of 90+ and is approaching upper resistance of 106 with gold off over $2.00.

To me, these are all bullish possiblities for the metal. I take the approach that equities demonstrate a view of the longer term horizon while bullion the near term horizon. And IMO the recent relative peformance of the XAU should not be overlooked as it may be evidencing that investors with a longer term view are beginning to accumulate notwithstanding falling bullion, falling silver, an exuberant rising market, falling oil, rising bonds, declining CRB, and a parade of modest to low numbers on present inflation.

The only 2 XAU stocks doing well today on the close were BMG and NEM...XAU up almost.70 with gold down $2++....That added to option expiration day tomorrow made it smell fishy to me....

The only 2 XAU stocks doing well today on the close were BMG and NEM...XAU up almost.70 with gold down $2++....That added to option expiration day tomorrow made it smell fishy to me....

D.A.: I harbor mixed emotions over your earlier comments regarding the recent level of goldbug "solidarity". I am posting this in response to your comments but it really is an impersonal statement of opinion to all hands. A goldbug "manifesto" more than anything else.

The passions seem to me to running at familiar levels. The thread has been genuinely positive for the past week or so with a great deal of new opinion to pass through the filters. Judged various reactions, some was readily digested and some others were akin to pulling an elephant through a knothole. As it should be.

New thoughts regarding the near term state of gold seem to be accepted in a neutral sense. At the same time its a good thing for closely held opinions to given a good shake now and then. Mencken once said that a friend is "Someone who shares the same superstitions". There is a real danger to becoming friendly if it means that we are unable to accept new superstitions. .... Rancor is obviously not the converse.

I have been a goldbug for far longer than it should be healthy to be one. I made a chamber pot full of money on gold stocks in 1993 and rode them right over the top and down again. Why? Because I'm ( was ) a died in the wool goldbug. Now, I'm a goldbug ( PMbug ) ONLY because it is be the place to be for some time to come. But I no longer clasp it to my bosom. It's all trade bait. To be bought and sold as circumstances dictate.

If we are truly headed for economic upheaval, then it would be prudent to consider PMs a long term hold. Maybe. If not then it becomes merely another trading vehicle. The only thing that should be bought and held, without regard to the future, is a cemetary plot. IMO.

My opinions have changed and will continue to change, in large part because of the great minds and opinions expressed in this forum and your's are among the best. If we have a lick of good sense, we will learn, more than we deserve, from those who violate our sense of comfort and order. Occasionally, we are also served well by those with whom we disagree. It would bother me a great deal to know that someone else would make the same mistakes, boneheaded mistakes, that I have made in the past because he did not have access to the best that others have to offer.

For the world of precious metals and a whole lot more, there is nothing in the known universe that compares with this forum. If it doesn't appear here, it will likely not appear anywhere else. I only wish it had been available in 92 and 93. If it had been, I would be able to present with a larger case of arrogance than is presently possible.

In the end, an honest difference of opinion regarding PMs; is far, far better than a continuous thread conducted by loose cannons posturing as champions of the downtrodden and/or the guarantors of our liberties,.... sans pro bono. Of course.

D.A.: I harbor mixed emotions over your earlier comments regarding the recent level of goldbug "solidarity". I am posting this in response to your comments but it really is an impersonal statement of opinion to all hands. A goldbug "manifesto" more than anything else.

The passions seem to me to running at familiar levels. The thread has been genuinely positive for the past week or so with a great deal of new opinion to pass through the filters. Judged various reactions, some was readily digested and some others were akin to pulling an elephant through a knothole. As it should be.

New thoughts regarding the near term state of gold seem to be accepted in a neutral sense. At the same time its a good thing for closely held opinions to given a good shake now and then. Mencken once said that a friend is "Someone who shares the same superstitions". There is a real danger to becoming friendly if it means that we are unable to accept new superstitions. .... Rancor is obviously not the converse.

I have been a goldbug for far longer than it should be healthy to be one. I made a chamber pot full of money on gold stocks in 1993 and rode them right over the top and down again. Why? Because I'm ( was ) a died in the wool goldbug. Now, I'm a goldbug ( PMbug ) ONLY because it is be the place to be for some time to come. But I no longer clasp it to my bosom. It's all trade bait. To be bought and sold as circumstances dictate.

If we are truly headed for economic upheaval, then it would be prudent to consider PMs a long term hold. Maybe. If not then it becomes merely another trading vehicle. The only thing that should be bought and held, without regard to the future, is a cemetary plot. IMO.

My opinions have changed and will continue to change, in large part because of the great minds and opinions expressed in this forum and your's are among the best. If we have a lick of good sense, we will learn, more than we deserve, from those who violate our sense of comfort and order. Occasionally, we are also served well by those with whom we disagree. It would bother me a great deal to know that someone else would make the same mistakes, boneheaded mistakes, that I have made in the past because he did not have access to the best that others have to offer.

For the world of precious metals and a whole lot more, there is nothing in the known universe that compares with this forum. If it doesn't appear here, it will likely not appear anywhere else. I only wish it had been available in 92 and 93. If it had been, I would be able to present with a larger case of arrogance than is presently possible.

In the end, an honest difference of opinion regarding PMs; is far, far better than a continuous thread conducted by loose cannons posturing as champions of the downtrodden and/or the guarantors of our liberties,.... sans pro bono. Of course.

Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm70hr.gif

Looks like a local double bottom. Possible BUY point!

Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm70hr.gif

Looks like a local double bottom. Possible BUY point!

Bernie: Sorry chap - I'd surprise you. I had lunch with a
guy from Austrialia a few years ago. Texas BBQ from the Exxon gas
station in Junction Texas. He was picking my brain about a new recycling
technology we were developing. I wish I could remember his name - he was
chairman of the board of one of the largest companies in Austrialia.
He got his start in the cattle business - I remember something about the
ranch being the largest single cattle ranch in the world! When you're in
Texas - that's saying something. Maybe someone from downunder can help
me out. He would be close to 85-90 today. What are the 5 largest
publicly traded companies in Austrialia? His net worth was above 3 billion I was told.

Oh yea, he was searching the world looking for recycling technologies
to bring back to Austrialia. He said waste/garabage is a huge problem
there. I don't think he was there looking to make a buck - he was trying
to help. No one goes to Junction to make a buck. He was really
nice. If I wasn't told who he was or see the limo he drove up in I would
of taken him for a local. He did talk funny though.

Bernie: Sorry chap - I'd surprise you. I had lunch with a
guy from Austrialia a few years ago. Texas BBQ from the Exxon gas
station in Junction Texas. He was picking my brain about a new recycling
technology we were developing. I wish I could remember his name - he was
chairman of the board of one of the largest companies in Austrialia.
He got his start in the cattle business - I remember something about the
ranch being the largest single cattle ranch in the world! When you're in
Texas - that's saying something. Maybe someone from downunder can help
me out. He would be close to 85-90 today. What are the 5 largest
publicly traded companies in Austrialia? His net worth was above 3 billion I was told.

Oh yea, he was searching the world looking for recycling technologies
to bring back to Austrialia. He said waste/garabage is a huge problem
there. I don't think he was there looking to make a buck - he was trying
to help. No one goes to Junction to make a buck. He was really
nice. If I wasn't told who he was or see the limo he drove up in I would
of taken him for a local. He did talk funny though.

EBN Gold @ UNCH and Silver down a cent....Front: I get "unknown extension on file" when I click on yer thingy....Steve Puetz ( 21:46 ) maybe I'm too laid back...hahahahaha!

EBN Gold @ UNCH and Silver down a cent....Front: I get "unknown extension on file" when I click on yer thingy....Steve Puetz ( 21:46 ) maybe I'm too laid back...hahahahaha!

EARL.....AMEN !!!!! To capitalize to the maximum, we must be traders. There is money to be made in the markets at all times. Up and down. Grains and metals. Stocks and bonds. Meats and woods. There is a time and place for all commodities to shine and the same for all to be tarnished. The greatest mistake in my trading career is to become focused on one commmodity to the point of excluding the rest. We must continually have an eye toward those shining, but also to be considering our next play. That is a lesson learned from many years, some as a trader of the markets and some as a narrow minded person focusing on one area and waiting for its return to the limelight.

EARL.....AMEN !!!!! To capitalize to the maximum, we must be traders. There is money to be made in the markets at all times. Up and down. Grains and metals. Stocks and bonds. Meats and woods. There is a time and place for all commodities to shine and the same for all to be tarnished. The greatest mistake in my trading career is to become focused on one commmodity to the point of excluding the rest. We must continually have an eye toward those shining, but also to be considering our next play. That is a lesson learned from many years, some as a trader of the markets and some as a narrow minded person focusing on one area and waiting for its return to the limelight.

Panda -- Re: your chart of 21:58; FWIW, There's a lot of ways to draw a line. You are right in that there is good support at that level. Doesn't particularly mean that it won't be busted in a fairly quick spike, or something more severe. It should be a good place to buy though. Any failure should be quickly, and maybe fairly inexpensively, be rectified IMHO. Some of us though are expecting some lower numbers. Perhaps, or not, they'll show up. But, presumably, your chart line wouldn't be off by far I think. But, I still like a spike, wherever it might go! Good Trading!

Panda -- Re: your chart of 21:58; FWIW, There's a lot of ways to draw a line. You are right in that there is good support at that level. Doesn't particularly mean that it won't be busted in a fairly quick spike, or something more severe. It should be a good place to buy though. Any failure should be quickly, and maybe fairly inexpensively, be rectified IMHO. Some of us though are expecting some lower numbers. Perhaps, or not, they'll show up. But, presumably, your chart line wouldn't be off by far I think. But, I still like a spike, wherever it might go! Good Trading!

Nailz ( 23:40 ) Good post...I've made the same mistake in the past by focusing on something in particular and waiting...and waiting...but the time just wasn't right for that trade or investment...

Nailz ( 23:40 ) Good post...I've made the same mistake in the past by focusing on something in particular and waiting...and waiting...but the time just wasn't right for that trade or investment...

Tort: Got yer missive and I ain't no heavyweight either...Great description of last nights game!...were my thoughts....exactly!...Good luck with the broker...REB: Hats off to MJ!

Tort: Got yer missive and I ain't no heavyweight either...Great description of last nights game!...were my thoughts....exactly!...Good luck with the broker...REB: Hats off to MJ!

EBN Gold has been gaining strength tonight and has now turned the corner into positive territory...up .20!...Goodnight all....you too Tarnished!

EBN Gold has been gaining strength tonight and has now turned the corner into positive territory...up .20!...Goodnight all....you too Tarnished!