Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

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(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:00 - ID#45173)
Gollum: Warren? Bill's pal? Rich guy #2?
The man who made it to #2 by betting on guys like #1 recently, more or less, I hear took a position in a more solid and electrically conductive commodity than the Sultan's. Good job jackin' that stuff, bud! Geez, what next? Gold? Gonna send Paul after that dolluh like it wuz a piece of fresh meat.

Wanna blab to your computer? You need a fairly new machine: 40MB RAM, 130MB spare disk space, Pentium 166 MMX...


(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:00 - ID#252127)
The hell with WJC, Janet Reno and Starr,

tell your f***ing ConMan er, Congressional Representative to ask for $18 billion in IMF gold in return for the proposed $18 billion IMF infusion.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:03 - ID#57232)
The Great Depression
blooper, skinny: Sorry about the confusion generated. My grandfather went through the depression -- and his memories were very valuable to me. He helped others when he could, despite the fact that his income was greatly curtailed. In those days, any kind of job was ok as long as you could put food on the table.
The depression does not depress me -- as it is good in the sense that it forces people to see the basics in life -- food, shelter, and human values. Humans have a tendency to forget all the valuable lesson in life from their ancestors in about three generations. I met the former wife of the president ( and founder ) of a major electronics firm TI. Her son was spoiled rotten because he got everything he ever wanted. Don't know if he ever grew up. One of our neighbors was a senior supervisor in a major firm in the coal industry -- worked his way up from the lowest ranks. Spoiled his son rotten giving him all that he could not afford. So 'rags to riches' in one generation, and a set up to go back to rags the next. The Chinese have a saying that real wealth only lasts three generations.
So -- a depression has a cleansing effect in that it forces people to remember what is important in life.
As to the individuals who become like King Midas, and never enjoy themselves, I have no answer. There are always a few who cannot enjoy themselves no matter how poor or rich they are.
I'll tell you what really worries me about a depression. And that is the people that have become dependent on government handouts. The government in its infinite wisdom has made millions of formerly independent individuals unable to fend for themselves. These people will strike out at everyone in anger -- not just the US goverment. This is the really unfortunate predicament our leaders have created for all of us, and why y2k is so frightening to me. Hard to find a job in a difficult market if you have been on the dole your whole life. Also -- you cannot learn self sufficiency in a month. Hence -- virtually everyone on this site, or the lurkers on this site will know what to do during y2k or a crisis. It is the ones that don't know what is coming that worry me.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:05 - ID#286230)
I have about a half dozen 80+ year old aunts who have been living like the depression never ended and have been telling everyone that someday they would be proven right. Nothing would suite them better than to see their 60+ year prophecy correct before they go. What a waste of a life time.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:06 - ID#147201)
JTF your 23:39
I believe you have IT in the last paragraph.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:09 - ID#43349)
Gold's not till next week, maybe Wednesday or so. There have been some more requests for silver fun, so we might do that first and push gold back a lttle further. Don't want too much goin on all at once, you know.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:11 - ID#207145)
Serious problems await us
Like none your relitives lived through. We have always been protected.
No more. We are on our own as was Soddom and Gomorrah. Forces have been unleashed. We may be OK for a few years. But a day of reconing will come.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:15 - ID#207145)
Mon., and Tues., we heal up a little, then rally Wed., Thurs., and Fri.
we rally. Both Gold and the markets

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:16 - ID#57232)
Addendum to my depression post
Please note: It is not the hardships of a depression that I fear -- the cleansing action is necessary, unfortunately. Like the fires in Yellowstone that the foresters tried to prevent. Eventually all they got was a bigger fire. I think this fiat currency approach of steadily goosing the economy more and more as it weakens is the same thing -- just asking for trouble. We would be much better off having fairly harsh recessions but not depressions, rather than mild recessions for years, followed by the granddaddy of a depression when the economy finally crashes for real. People will suffer during a depression, we all will. But we -- the people -- created the conditions for this to happen, just as the Yellowstone forresters diligently prevented all of those necessary fires.
The people that will suffer the most unfairly will be the ones that have become addicted to welfare. The bureaucrats that created this situation are to blame in part by desiring the power of control, and we the people are partially to blame for paying for it, and letting it happen.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:17 - ID#43349)
That works for me.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:20 - ID#28994)
First,,,,,,,Selby i must appologise for calling your great country Communist a few days back. Trying to get you going,,,,, no luck ,,you were firm. JTF.....excellent post......Selby...They say it each day.......History will repeat.
Selby,,,,had a uncle like that...left me ten grand,,,,,its down a mine shaft up in the yukon . ( wallpaper )

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:21 - ID#207145)
I sure would like to win a round or two for a change. It maskes sense.
Now if it will work. I will be cautious. Ain't this fun?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:24 - ID#45173)
Gollum: Whooooooah! Silvah and Gol' at same time!
Fuggedaboudit. I'd be a misquito stuck on the main vein. Die of too much, I would!

The voice dictation software is a no cost to you and, to be fair, anyone I know here, and especially Bart, with a computing machine of sufficient processing power ( see below ) . Well, not sure how many resonses I'll get so how about the first ten. All I ask is that you tell me what you think of it -- good, bad, ugly, and sweet.


(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:28 - ID#207145)
Strive to be happy
It's not so hard to do in the US of A. We honory rascals will always be OK, be it caviar or pinto beans. Goodnight all. b.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:29 - ID#286230)
Well I love to tell US folks that communists run in the federal elections just to get a rise from them--nothing happened this time but thanks for the opportunity.

I have an uncle who lived like he won WW11 himself and continued to live like the war and depression never ended. Left me about $12000 and I have my car and lawn mower in it now. I used money I made myself to furnish a couple of mine shafts.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:32 - ID#43349)
I dunno. It's bad enough those things everywhere I go without having them listening to everything I say too.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:35 - ID#207145)
Thanks for the Kondraetiev info. Appreciate it!

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:35 - ID#57232)
G'Nite all! Going to the lake tomorrow
Hope I don't rip the bottom off our boat in the drought-drying lake. New hazards popping up every day.

Hope you all have a nice weekend -- whatever you do. I hope you all enjoy yourselves. I think we all know of the price that Adam paid when he bit the apple of knowledge. We must forget things for a time, too, so that we can still have fun.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:36 - ID#45173)
JTF: read between the lines and Greenspan says as much in his two days
of testimony. I'm curious what he will say when his term is up in August and he know longer has to suck up to his employers. The biggest worldwide debt and currency crisis in history is unfolding and I'm guessing the old coot knows it.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:37 - ID#43349)
Ok, we'll do silver starting Monday morning early. Once it gets going real good it'll more or less take care of itself. Then we'll kick off our gold rally Wednesday morning, say around elevenish. That'll give us a good couple of days and a bit more untill the weekend.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:40 - ID#43349)
I'm going to retire.
Got to get everything set up for our rally parties next week. Good night.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:41 - ID#45173)
Gollum: Oh, don't worry. A computer doesn't listen 1/10 as well as
most humans, although the software running on my laptop can process speech about twice as fast as my 82 year old uncle in Texas. And you say, "Start listening" and "stop listening" and it actually will, unlike my wife who does the opposite.


(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:42 - ID#207145)
Sally tol Alli, bout a thang she saw
Had two big horns, and a wooly jaw, Wolly bully, wolly bully. Wolly bully.
Now wachit na, watch it na. He's gonna git cha. Find yo sef one really pull the wool with you, wooly bully, wooly bully, wooly bully. Sam the Sham and the Pharoahs. Good evening!

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:46 - ID#207145)
Late Friday profit taking, yes?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:48 - ID#28994)
Yea,,,Had this Canadian work for me for 20 years. He was a Bren Gunner from the start of the war in 1939 until 1945. He always said he carried the dam thing from north africa to Belgium on his hands and knees, and never did see Walter Conkrite.
Gagnrad will tell the gun guys what a Bren gun is, He must be British because he knows what a Orlicon is????????? Was it the forrunner of the American Pom Pom.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:49 - ID#207145)
Late Friday
A little risky with all the trading maybe.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:54 - ID#286230)
My father was a Bren Gunner and was on the Atlantic when Germany sureedered. He said Hitler knew it was all over when he found out who was coming. The Orlikon ( sp wrong ) was a Norwegian design I believe and adopted by the British.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 00:55 - ID#207145)
Righteous Brothers Play for Clinton
That's ok., I still like them. Soul and Inspiration. Just once in my life.....let me...hold on to..this thing I've got. Baby say that youll be stayin'.
That old pot o GOLD, ain't so easy to find. A men brother righteous.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 01:02 - ID#28994)
Very intersting,,,,, would like to know if the American Pom Pom Derived from that weapon.
Pardon my spelling Selby,,,,,OOO mother Scotland has a bit of me.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 01:07 - ID#286230)
I have some books that talk about the Orlikon and similiar anti aircraft guns --I can't spell it either-- but they are a couple of hundred miles away at the moment.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 01:12 - ID#28994)
Enjoyed our talk..When you can get the info let me know.If you see Gagnard post ask him he may know.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 01:21 - ID#341234)
To: Winston__A
Thanks for the notice about Gary North on Art Bell tonight. I think he will be on in about 40 minutes just after 1:00a Central.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 02:19 - ID#401460)
Friday July 24, 8:36 pm Eastern Time

Agency to delay imposing new rules on some derivatives.

``We try to protect the money of the American public ... at risk in these markets,'' she said.


(Sat Jul 25 1998 02:36 - ID#430212)
gold...of course
A dark cloud passes over us next week as gold plummets as the dollar strengthens against the yen. Did you ever wonder why when silver goes up, gold doesn't move; but when silver goes down, gold goes down in sympathy. It is a never ending story with no change in site. I never thought there would be a day that I would be wishing for a recession here in the United States or a war somewhere to be faught, God forbid that should ever happen. I see no signs of either happening in the near future, thus gold will languish within its trading range of 285 to 295 for a while; probably another 6 months or so.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 04:24 - ID#373284)
grant,Namaste' to you and yours...mine are forever in kind with your thoughts...
a few seconds ago...a candle, lit with HONOR, HER sails filled with quiet...sailed on the true journey from the shore of the Island that is Long...

A GIANT gulp of tequila to ya!

(Sat Jul 25 1998 04:48 - ID#373284)
skinny, Namaste' just inhaled the larger portion of a quart of Cuervo in your HONOR
honest...listening to Leo Kottke...the only 12 string that can touch the clouds here on the Island that is Long...

May you live forever and the last voice you hear be that of a loved one...


(Sat Jul 25 1998 05:04 - ID#390227)
@Art Bell & Gary North
GN & AB were just discussing the Y2k bug when Mr. North mentioned something about Japan, Canada and New York state having a different fiscal year beginning in April rather than whenever everybody else's starts. The intent was to stress that the pooh will hit the fan after the first quarter of next year rather than the first of the year 2000. Is this true? Anybody? It's on the radio at present.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 05:18 - ID#316193)
Noah, the more I read about Y2K the "worrier" I get....
Here's a book that has a waiting list at the local library.
I'll be anxious to read it soon...

(Sat Jul 25 1998 05:55 - ID#255151)
Y2K @ Free Republic

Lots of denial and skepticism there. Read the post from xbob @ 04:40:58

(Sat Jul 25 1998 06:03 - ID#255151)
Classic Y2K Comments-

For those of us who appreciate gallows humor.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 06:06 - ID#316193)
Thanks Auric!
I needed that....

(Sat Jul 25 1998 06:26 - ID#255151)

In case you missed it, Nick @ C posted one of the most classic examples of "duh-2000" with a power company official. See post @ 05:40 Thursday July 23, 1998. Monty Python could not have bettered this.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 06:38 - ID#26793)
IMF bailout has not cured the fears about Russia

(Sat Jul 25 1998 06:41 - ID#26793)
New Japanese P.M. on the road to calm Asian financial markets.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 06:45 - ID#26793)
Jewish leader wants U.S., Russia to open their books on looted gold.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 06:52 - ID#26793)
IMF wants Argentina to forbid union involvement in pay talks

(Sat Jul 25 1998 07:02 - ID#26793)
Mexican lawmakers balk at taxpayer funded bank bailout

(Sat Jul 25 1998 07:05 - ID#26793)
BIS says Mexico is "paying twice" for the 1994 bank bailout

(Sat Jul 25 1998 07:26 - ID#432148)
JTF - The Great Depression - Your 00:03
Very well said with unusual insight. I was there as a kid ( born 1926 ) and my father was essentially unemployed for 5 years. What a learning experience. It made me a survivor the hard way. Your worry re what people will do in the next one is also mine. In the last depression people "took it" and kept trying to make things better. I hate to say it but in the next one I suspect crime will be the answer for many. ( Can it get worse? ) The character of many people has changed as you indicate and for the reasons you state. Self reliance seems to have become a lost art for many, brought about by the liberal government policies. Giving something for nothing to people hardly builds character. Do the haves have an obligation to those in need through no fault of their own? Of course. But not by giving things through government programs with no payback.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 07:32 - ID#147201)
Goldbug23 Depression
Me too. Born in 29 in Richmond, a big family and made fun the old fashion way.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 08:01 - ID#253246)
Fleckenstein on*****Buffet's silver purchase y2k & PAASF

(Sat Jul 25 1998 08:24 - ID#253246)
Looks like Arch missed the 23 July call

Driving last week end and listening to a show on the radio called
"its your Money" and the host was pumping up Arch Crawford
as being the best market timer over the last five years. He stated
that July 23rd was going to be the day stocks took off ( small stocks in
particular ) . Every time I've seen old Arch on CNBC his gold calls
are always wrong just as they were for july 23rd stock rise. It
appears to me arch is putting his pluto in his subscribers uransus.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 08:35 - ID#29048)
Barron's analysis on recent silver surge....
July 27, 1998

No Silver Lining Uptick apt to be short-lived

By Cheryl Strauss Einhorn

Bull trap?

After months of somnolence, silver prices rose five days in a row before selling off Friday. On the week, they jumped more than 6%, settling at $5.71 an ounce for the September Comex contract after hitting a high of $5.83 an ounce amid shrinking supplies. Silver inventories in warehouses monitored by the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange dropped more than 5.5% in the past week to just under 81 million ounces, the lowest level in 16 years. As a result of this bullish news, investors who had sold futures, speculating that prices would fall, were forced to buy them back, liquidating their short positions to limit their losses.

Does the decline in stocks suggest a revival in the metal? Yes, says Joe Rosta, a precious-metals analyst at CPM Group in New York. "Worldwide demand for jewelry and for the chemicals that make photographic materials has been strong." Too, demand from India was robust this spring. It has slowed lately, as expected, since this is that market's seasonally weak period.

Furthermore, the worldwide gap between newly refined metal and consumption continues to widen. That gap is being bridged by available above-ground stocks of metal. Yet even experts are unsure how large such supplies are. "Readily available inventory appears to be higher than CPM's earlier estimates; the difference could be anywhere from 10 million to 100 million ounces," Rosta says. Still, he thinks demand from investors and consumers will exceed newly refined supplies by more than 160 million ounces this year. Another bullish sign comes from the recent rise in the "lease rates" that banks charge to loan silver. The 90-day lease rate almost doubled Tuesday, to 4.5% per annum, from 2.4% -- a level that had been one of the lowest since late last year.

The lease rates jumped in part because a large silver holder, who had been leasing out metal, possibly through dealer Johnson Matthey, decided not to renew his leases, informed sources say. He might have decided to pull his lease because he wanted to demonstrate that the metal is indeed in tight supply, or because he simply wanted to free it up to be sold.
Johnson Matthey declined to comment.

Since the lease wasn't renewed, whoever owned the lease would have had to find supplies elsewhere, or buy them in the open market, resulting in tighter conditions. At the same time, J. Aron, the commodity trading division of Goldman Sachs, said it would take delivery of 5,332 July silver contracts, equal to roughly 27 million ounces of metal or one-third of the stock supplies. Presumably this was done for a client; Goldman won't comment.

Knowing that the sell order was imminent and that silver is a relatively illiquid market, some experts note that Goldman could have announced taking delivery in anticipation of the fact, which propelled the market higher and boosted liquidity. In this way, a large quantity of metal may exit easily and at higher prices than the prevailing trading range, which has been only a few cents wide since April. In an illiquid market like silver, an exit strategy is crucial. A seller needs to find a greater fool. As a result, some traders aren't quite so sure that the recent rally has been driven by market fundamentals. In fact, "it seems like a bull trap," asserts floor trader Vince Lanci, a principal of Berard Capital. "The market should still remain in its recent range."

Michael Williams, at commodity firm Genesis Partners, agrees. His firm took profits Friday. "The market ticked up barely above $5.85 an ounce Friday, which was just above Thursday's high. From a technical standpoint, that is a classic way to get all the tiny guys in after a four- or five-day rally. As the professional traders see the volume move up and prices hit right above that previous high, they come in and sell the heck out of the market."

If prices had kept rising above the prior day's high, then, according to technical analysis, the rally could have continued. Since it faltered, Williams says silver may trade back down to near $5.50.

Indeed, true bull markets tend to be stair-step processes. Conversely, before rallying, silver moved down and then sideways. It hit an eight-month low in May, after its last quick-but-strong spike in February, when prices hit a near high for the decade of $7.28, on news that billionaire Warren Buffett's company, Berkshire Hathaway, had purchased 130 million ounces, or one-fifth of the world's annual supply.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 08:47 - ID#287114)
If the next depression is as bad as a lot of posters think.......and paper money has no value....How will the value of gold be established.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 08:50 - ID#374204)
JTF - The Great Depression @ 00:03
Excellent observations regarding wealth & generations. First generation
pulls itself up by the bootstraps, second generation continues this to
some definition of "success", third generation of spoiled brats p*sses
it away.
I see this scenario too often. Good managers & workers being held back to
make room for the bosses' worthless son/daughter grooming for company
leadership, at which they fail miserably and take the company down with
them. Daddy doesn't care as he's got his golden parachute. Sound familiar
to anyone here?
While not true in all families, I really believe this to be true in
general, and is related to long term economic cycles.
Japan since WWII would be a fascinating study with a convenient start

Charles Keeling
(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:03 - ID#344225)
@ SKINNY RE: Value of GOL in depression
You could ask those people in Thailand, Indonesia, Russia,
and all of SE Asia.

Theri paper became almost worthles. But those holding gold
were saved from the morass.

GOLD..It's good stuff to have.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:05 - ID#412286)
Why the sell off yesterday?

Mr. Mick
(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:07 - ID#345321)
Y2K Fix???????????????
Saturday July 25, 5:49 am Eastern Time

INTERVIEW-Software firm offers 200O bomb reprieve

By Neil Winton, Science and Technology Correspondent

LONDON, July 22 ( Reuters ) - Software producer DRI Legasys Group of Canada said it can
help companies falling behind in the battle to defuse the millennium computer time-bomb.

DRI Legasys said its new product - LS/2000 - can quickly scan millions of lines of computer code,
pinpoint problems and cure infected parts of software. The company said it can also slash the time
needed for testing.

There is less than a year and a half to fix potential Year 2000 computer problems. Some experts say
that as testing of fixes can take at least 18 months, then it is already too late for those yet to start.

But privately held DRI Legasys claims that its software can still help.

``It's fast, accurate and automated, with very little manual intervention. It's significantly cheaper
because it shortens the whole cycle,'' said Douglas Archibald, President of Design Recovery Inc,
part of the DRI Legasys Group of Oakville, Ontario.

``Time is money and this shortens the process by a factor of 30. LS/2000 truly is the closest thing to
the silver bullet everyone has been waiting for,'' Archibald told Reuters.

DRI Legasys is launching its LS/2000 product in Britain today.

Computer users have been searching for the so-called ``silver bullet,'' a product which would, at a
stroke, render the computer millennium bomb harmless.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:10 - ID#287114)
Charles Keeling
Their money did become worthless, but it was valued by the U.S.A. dollar.
If the greenback became worthless,would 1 ounce of gold be worth 1 cow or 1 pail of milk.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:17 - ID#374204)
I was told yesterday that the average price of gold
has always been about the same as the price of a decent quality
men's suit, and that this had always been true for centuries, and
how come I'd never heard this before?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:30 - ID#288369)
@skinney..........or better, .....slim.
Perhaps this dollar will be worth less ( than it was ) .....not "worthless". And our measley little, shiney coins will buy a lot more dollars, or cows....or rum ( rum for your milk ) ....a breakfast delight! where was I?,,,,mornin' to you! and he gone forever? ohno.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:32 - ID#147201)
skinny re value of gold
That's a good question. I just came into check. It's in my mind, but I need to finish a task right quick and I'll be back, Charlie

Charles Keeling
(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:34 - ID#344225)
@ Skinny RE: Value of GOLD
For over ten years, in recent history, those who had gold could
travel to Argentina, and live a very good life by cashing in
one oz of gold a month.

If the US dollar crashes, Switzerland would be nice. Take your gold there and escape the depression. France values gold.
The new EURO will value gold, so you could redeem your gold for EURO's,
and pick any country in Europe..

All Arab countrys value gold. But who would want to live there.
Still--If there is depression, riots, and a depressed economy here in the US, who would want to live through those times of acute distress?

Some currency will be solid enough to enable you to weather the storm
if you have GOLD. Those who have Gold in the US may well be able to
buy houses, cars, real estate, etc at 10 cents on the dollar if the paper money comes under seige like it has in Russia, Argentina, Korea, etc.

The next group of millionaires may come from the ranks of the gold bugs
who have stayed the course.

Gold/Silver----it is good stuff to have. I hope it never happens!

(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:38 - ID#288369)
@yes, I have it from impeachable sources that...........
teddO is about to finish up rehab....sadly, there was no house building........just a bit o'time in white. They say we won't recognize him when he gets out.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:48 - ID#24563)
Greenspan issues stealth economic warning through Washington Post writer John Berry.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:48 - ID#248180)
Fund Managers Starting to Like Hard Assets
Fund buyers put shine on base metals
By Gary Mead
Base metals sparkled early yesterday on the London Metal Exchange, although traders said the rally was fuelled by technically-driven buying by investment funds, with no fundamental changes to be seen in the market.

Three-month copper was up $45 at $1,755 a tonne in the morning session, and the trend continued through the afternoon; copper closed at $1,773, $61 higher.

Nickel was another beneficiary of fund interest, moving $170 higher early to $4,750; it ended the day at $4,745, $215 higher than Thursday's close.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:49 - ID#31876)
Here's a New One...."The Nanny Bubble"
Scroll down, "click" on "THE NANNY BUBBLE"..

(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:50 - ID#147201)
skinny re value of gold
First, you have to reorient to units of weight. Grain, pennyweight and ounce. Gold only has two means of evaluation- in currency or by weight. A bullion coin of any size should not be denominated in any currency. If you want to call a denomination for it, do it by units of weight and purity. With some certification that has a wide recognition, this establishes its authenticity. When in doubt, weigh and measure. That would be rather "bulky" for a transaction. However, if paper money is "worthless", somebody with gold will find somebody with merchandise where they strike a deal. If there is a quoted market for gold, the value would be proportinal to each unit of weight. Otherwise, each units of produce, merchadise or other portions would have to be marked in grains dwt etc or there will be a period of establishing the unit weights for merchadise by trial and error or negotiation. The seller wants to sell and the buyer wants to buy. Each will have to test or learn the art of negotiation until some established values work. From these established values the rest will follow. Smaller buyers will probably wobble around until they get "educated". The grocer wants to sell so what better means of payment can he get except gold. I'm sure this is rough, but for a quick answer at this time it's the best I can do, Charlie

(Sat Jul 25 1998 09:58 - ID#411112)
A little self promotion and a lot more info,just did a new web page FYI

(Sat Jul 25 1998 10:08 - ID#286230)
OK Computer guys-- tell us what to think of this:::

Using our unique Year 2000 "hot spot" strategy, LS/2000 accurately points out exactly those few lines in each program that may be Year 2000 sensitive, and automatically reprograms them to be Year 2000 ready in the style and implementation that you choose.>>

(Sat Jul 25 1998 10:10 - ID#427357)
ALL GOING AMOK,  But SHIRLEY dear, there is the Gold Standard

U.S. Federal Reserve Board Chairmen Greenspan gave his semi-annual Humphrey-Hawkins testimony before the House banking panel on July 21-22, 1998. His commentary may be summarized as:

Now the Gold Standard on the other hand

History tells us that a "significant" market correction is
inevitable, but when the crash may come is anyone's guess,
Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan warned
Wednesday as he resumed testimony in his
Humphrey-Hawkins report to Congress.

In 1967 Economic Consultant Greenspan published a now
very famous report called "GOLD AND ECONOMIC FREEDOM."
Within only six years of Mr. Greenspan's insightful and prophetic observations, the precious metals markets exploded to
astronomical values. Obviously, HIS COMMENTS DID NOT
CAUSE the gold price to rise - however, his keen observation
HERALDED WHAT WAS TO COME. Let's see what happened
in the precious metals market during the six years after his
very monumental pronouncements in 1967.

- Gold soared about 400% from $35/oz to over $175/oz.

- Silver more than doubled in value from $1.29 to over $2.60/oz.

- Gold Stocks as measured by TSE Mines Index rose more than 350%.

This begs the question. Was U.S. Fed Chairman's seemingly
innocuous aside just an off the cuff remark or is it indeed
another prophetic pronouncement of the future?! The real
answer might make you RICH!

YOU BE THE JUDGE see the report. It's necessary to delete the extra letters "en" in the word "golden" before pasting the URL to the Internet locator:

(Sat Jul 25 1998 10:14 - ID#147201)
skinny corralary to 9:50
This is where the 10 grain coin comes in. Just as there is a variety of coin denominations in the cash register, going to units of weight requires a variety of weight units. There is no way now to know what would work out, but you can start with 10 grains and go to 1/2 pennyweight ( 12 grains ) , pennyweight ( 24 grains ) , 5 pennyweights ( 1/4 oz ) and 10 pennyweights ( 1/2 oz ) . If the coins are properly stamped, it would facilitate circulation.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 10:19 - ID#286230)
Not a good sign
Sorry I cannot get the URL for the LS/2000 to post here so if you are interested you will have to search for it--not hard to find.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 10:40 - ID#288369)
@fraudulent filosophy..........
The US has "promoted" the entire world on the value of the dollar. A remarkable achievement by its gifted gurus. Now, the almighty American "economy" and its income tax base backs the value of the dollar. Do Americans evaluate the American economy? I guess so. This is a clever, very clever concept ( bountiful too! ) .
Seems like a more fair currency evaluation would be based on a mutually held and definable asset. Finite terms for comparison purposes. The country with the most gold backing its currency would have the strongest currency. Each economy would generate a net annual loss or gain, which would manifest itself in a corresponding change in its treasury's gold holdings. Simple and fair.
'Tis the same ol' quandary.......which will it be? hype or real comparative value? Why does the world settle for hype? I know why merkans do! Maybe, the notion of big grey gunboats?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 10:57 - ID#288369)
@expanding economy? huh?
Looking through the classifieds this mornin' ( hedging bloopeau's $9 oil forecast ) ...I was excited to learn that Sherwin Williams will be taking applicants for an exciting sales associate position....must be a self-starter! Yes, we are turning the corner here in okc. kickin' butt.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:00 - ID#411259)
..... YK2 Idea (lame) .....

I know this will probably be considered a lame idea, but somebody who knows better can probably set me straight:

Lets say that certain ( read most ) government agencies will not be ready for YK2 in time, yes?

What if, on the eve of the millennium, they set their clocks back one year and tell the computers it is 1999 all over again? Yes this would screw up billing cycles, Social Security payments, etc. but, it seems to me, this is better than the system failing entirely.

So how will this not work?

Again, my experience is in how to run a computer, not what makes it run.


(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:02 - ID#26793)
Yeltsin says hard times are coming

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:04 - ID#373284)
The Spring of 44...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Billy Joel
Leningrad,.............great tune...about a Clown...making children glad...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...yes...this then is a song with heart...more important than a gold piece from an shall be the gift of stories...

Yes, so be it, today on the Great Lawn...

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:08 - ID#26793)
I just suggested a similar plan to my ex-boss. He doesn't want to spend the $40,000 needed for the fix. My suggestion was to take all the old files off-line in 12/31/1999. Start year 2000 with new data which the computer will think is 1900. Only the 00 part shows so it will work OK. The main problem is that his work requires extensive queries of the older data. That doubles the query time as you have to work with two databases, one of which is off line. It also adds an element of risk in that the manual operation is somewhat error prone. It can be done though.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:09 - ID#288369)
@T#1...I'll go YA! one Billy Joel and raise YA!.......
one lennon/mcCartney, one donald fagen, one elton YA!........? mornin'

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:09 - ID#348286)
@Re: "Yeltsin says hard times are coming"
Globalization will create a world of billioniares and slaves. There will no longer be a middle class. This worldwide sweep started in Latin Amereica, eastern europe, and is now consuming Asia. Next.....
"Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated....."

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:09 - ID#368244)

Powerball is 195 millon......think I will trade al my gold and gold stocks and buy powerball tickets. Way I have it figured, this would reduce my odds to say 1in 650,000,000.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:12 - ID#288369)
@'xcuse me........
left out bernie w/e. john.......stooopid me.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:16 - ID#348286)
@RJ - Y2K Date rollback
RJ, this idea has been looked at seriously before. Most financial applications would fail or give wrong data.
Ex: If you subtract an old date in a client record from todays date, you end up with a positive amount.
If you were to subtract the same old date from a rolled back date, you would end up with a negative number. Poof........

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:19 - ID#26793)
S&P cuts Malaysia currency rating

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:22 - ID#373284)
money...Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...of gold, silver and platinum...Hmmmmmmmmm
true value is the content of a the real gift shall be given to the littles...Hypatia, Schweitzer, and a personal favorite...

Toscanini...shuuuuush...the baton clicking...


(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:28 - ID#288369)
@out w/daughter1..........

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:32 - ID#290232)
Just read the the Republicans have tucked tail and rolled over on the 18 billon for the IMF. I read that the IMF does not allow any nation to review it's books? Can this be true? How do we know what the money is really being used for?

I was having dinner out yesterday afternoon and overheard a conversation at the next table. A mans wife was talking about the
shooting at the capital and how sorry she felt for the police who were shot. Her husband calmly looked at her and said "I don't feel sorry for them at all, they were defending a government that is more than willing to
kill its own citizens if they resist having 40-50% of their income confiscated and redistibuted. Sure you can say they were just "doing their job". You can also say IRS agents are just doing their job when they kill a resisting tax protester. Let's put it another way, if a lone gunman tried to storm the Nazi headquarters in Germany in WWII and
only managed to kill a few guards before being killed. He would have been a hero to the jews. The German government on the otherhand would have said the guards were the heroes. It all depends on your

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:34 - ID#373284)
STUDIO_R, NAMASTE' and a huge gulp from the Island that is Long to YA!
Willie Dixon is sitting on the corner, me and Mayall are about to join in, I will be playing the post box and the cha-CHING, ya gotta put platinum coins to work eh...Mick Fleetwood is late as usual...of Charles I can say his Ray is always on time...

spanking the ivory...Dean, Tony and Frank are talking with me Mum and will make more than an appearance...

and the littles peer through the hedge...who is he talking to and where is that music coming from...

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:37 - ID#147201)
You really have a talent for the kids. Why not put it together in a book- lots better than Seuss

(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:47 - ID#373284)
chas, Namaste' Dancing on the lawn my friend? Mumm is selling some books
the fella started to I took a sack of gold and threw it at him, not in a bad way...

he could barely lift it...Let's talk money Pal, says me...

He is paying me Mumm in full no questions asked...


(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:51 - ID#45173)
I've been preaching since April that Q2 GDP will be much worse than anyone expects
But I didn't think it'd be this bad. We'll hear on the offical news on July 31st.

"As of this report, second-quarter GDP growth could be as low as zero," predicted economist Stan Shipley of Merrill Lynch & Co. in New York."


(Sat Jul 25 1998 11:55 - ID#242325)
Year 2000
PMs as year 2000 play.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:00 - ID#373284)
SilverBaron, Namaste' and a great Island that is Long GULP to ya...
remember when I said the regular folks will rise up...stand back my friend...the purge will not be pretty...

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:01 - ID#280214)
skinny - re your post of Fri Jul 24 1998 23:35
The first part describes my mother.
She was age 16 in 1929 and lived & worked on a farm.
She had to quit school after 6th grade to work on the farm.
During WWII she worked in an aircraft factory as many did.
She is still alive - still scrimping and saving
as she did when she put away some old Silver Dollars.
Her life has improved over her experience in the 1930s.
She she certainly tried to prepare for another depression.
By raising a garden, chickens, canning food, sewing quilts
and discarding nothing that could maybe eventually be used.
When you're used to having next to nothing,
even cardboard boxes and scraps of cloth are treasures.
A lesson many affluent folk of today would be wise to learn
but those who could best teach them are not listened to.
A millionaire she and my father will not be.
But the house is paid for and they have their social security.
I do not begrudge the social security I pay in to the system
- even though I may not see it - she and Dad deserve it.
Unfortunately, she may need to endure yet another Depression.
Or, if she is blessed, her God and her faith that has given her strength to endure all these hard decades, may relieve her of that final hardship.
Though I do not wish that on my Father - for he too has endured much.
We children have not learned the most important lessons from our parents.
We are doomed to repeat history - and to impose it again on them.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:07 - ID#255226)
Jims - Have had out of town family for a few days, been a little out of touch. Stopped out of my dec silver at 5.76 & 5.77 short again at 5.85 with a 5.90 stop. Right here it's 50/50 up or down. So far we have done an abc from the late May lows with a = c. That makes this move so far corrective in a still down trend. A trade above 5.90 base dec would give the up side more credability. For Monday base dec silver high should be 5.77 low 5.55. If you are a buyer 5.55 should be a good price to buy at about mid day monday with a 5 point stop. If 5.55 fails next stop 5.25. SnP Sept still looking for 1220-1240 about mid aug.. If it gets there could be a major short.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:14 - ID#373284)
chas, Namaste' I am a living library, uh huh...
the most magical thoughts can not be referred to by flipping pages, but rather it is true that one finds the best in life through sifting their memories...

sorta like that leaf I watched drifting to the ground in Newberry, SC...

Christine Vaughn made a comment that I shall not repeat...needless to say it was priceless...memories...even down to the cotton slub on the elbow of her right arm...

some things simply can not be written down...which is somewhat rhetorical since explaining these events has in fact been written down...

cognitive thought...truly an uphill battle...ALWAYS my BEST to you and yours...

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:17 - ID#147201)
Great!! It all depends on how you look at things. I can pretty well figure your perspective. PS- old arthur is still around, but not forever, Charlie

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:17 - ID#373403)
You are so right about globalization destroying the middle class. I recently sent a letter to Alan Greenspan ( I know. He will never see it. ) regarding the use of aggregate numbers in economic policymaking and how it ignores important social implications. These implications are social instability which in the long run is not consistent with Federal Reserve stated goals.

Prolonging upsides in the business cycle causes more severe downturns. I see the current Federal Reserve abbrogating their responsibility for long term stability in favor of short term enrichment. The same is true for the $5.5 Trillion debt which future generations will either have to pay for as 1 ) increasing interest, 2 ) lower spending/tax receipt ratios, or 3 ) inflationary confiscation of their savings.

The Hermit
(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:24 - ID#372248)
@ Squirrel - your 12:01
An excellent post Sir. Especially the last line, "We are doomed to repeat history and to impose it again on them." Pray that our elders and we have the strength to indure it.

Thank you!

The Hermit

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:24 - ID#242325)
Whither the Dow?
Buy heavily on monday if you believe APH. But here is a compelling case for Dow 8300 by August 21.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:25 - ID#373284)
chas, Namaste'
a huge grin on the Island that is Long...may you live one thousand years longer than my GREATEST wish for you...

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:34 - ID#373284)
Tantalus, Namaste' Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
A new tequila...saw your message of a day or so ago ...Hmmmmmmmmmmm...Tequila to ya!...Carlos C. and why they make yogurt in Eugene...Peyote and Three Sisters Wilderness...


(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:36 - ID#147201)
tolerant re Southern Belles
There are still a few true southern belles left. My favorite is Sen Sam's sister, Jean. They know the difference between this world and the one they grew up in, but they don't admit it. Have not had a brandy lately with Jean, but this is a case like you said - can't be written. If you ever get here before the time, we can go over and have the deepest and most gracious conversation you could imagine.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:40 - ID#251166)
Thanks for the silver rundown. Much appreciated.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:45 - ID#373284)
chas, Namaste'
Consider it happening...such that I could dream would never be BETTER...

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:45 - ID#251166)
RJ -- Read your Monex PM Review. Good work!

RJ, ALL -- So what's plat gonna do next week?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:51 - ID#341234)
Gary North on Art Bell radio show
Gary North was back on the Art Bell radio show last night. If you want to listen, the web site is:
Go under July '98 Archives and choose Friday Night / Saturday Morning 07/24/1998!
The interview starts at about 1:04 into the program.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 12:55 - ID#147201)
skinny re your 8:47
Did you get my replys? I would like to know what you think. This may take some refining.

Gandalf the White
(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:00 - ID#433301)
Help ! Re: OLD GOLD's 12:24 "Whither the Dow?" url comments.
I get confused when the author of an article starts out a long discussion with a premise that is incorrect. Do I have my pointy thinking hat on backwards, OR does HE ? The "Urban Survival" author states in the first paragraph, "the Put to Call index was only at .59 ( 59% of the options were Puts -in other words, about 2/3'rds of the players were still betting on new highs to come."

I believe that the author must be thinking backwards or perhaps smoking some bad "tobaccie" ! A Put is the right to sell at a set price ! To buy a "in the money" put with the "hope" of the market going DOWN is the way to make a profit. These buyers are not wanting the market to go UP !

Am I missing something here ?
Gandy ( the dumb Ol' goldbug Wizard )

(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:06 - ID#413195)
in sack-o-tomatoes
RJ, Donald, et al.: I saw somewhere that if you roll the clock back 11 years, you'll get an agreement between days of the week and days of the year that'll last for 3 years. This may be important for gov't agencies and business that have to do mission-critical scheduling tasks. But the agreement doesn't begin until March 1, 2000.

For perfect agreement between days of the week and days of the year, you have to set the clock back 28 years. Unfortunately, many DOS/Windows machines don't like dates that go back that far.

I think rolling the date back will work best on stand-alone systems ( like mine ) that don't share data with other machines -- via floppies, say. But even in this case many apps go bonkers when there are disagreements between the system date and file dates.

For large organizations that also have to worry about embedded chips, a large network, re-infection by non-compliant systems, corrupt data entered by data entry personnel who can't always be relied on to accurately compute the date 28 years ago, etc., rolling the clock back seems like a pretty risky tactic.

But I do plan to roll the clock back on my own computer, and deal with apps that don't like it on a case-by-case basis.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:08 - ID#287186)
Great Depression
As I catch up on my reading I find others here have much wisdom to share
from parents, grandparents, aunts & uncles and,
in some rare but invaluable cases for us -
their own experinces such as Goldbug23's 07:26.
regarding the Great Depression and the hardships it caused.
JTF's 00:03 and 00:16 statements that "a depression has a cleansing effect in that it forces people to remember what is important in life"
are very accurate. So is JTF's Yellowstone analogy - very much so!

Regarding people who have become dependent on government handouts
I do not worry about their welfare. They had plenty of information
from history and the experience of parents and grandparents
to have known better. But perhaps like JTF and Goldbug23,
I worry more about what they will do when the find the gravy train
is gone. They may not have the character to survive in good shape.
They will whine, cry and then try to take anything from anybody.
They may elect a tyrannical government to "take care of them"
which will be far far worse than we have now here or in Europe.
The depths of ignorance and depradation to which we all may fall
may be cleansing indeed. I just hope the wisest and best survive
and the worst do not - that the passage will improve our species,
that we do not continue a cycle that will put us back in this same
self-made situation again in two generations. As JTF said:
"So 'rags to riches' in one generation,
and a set up to go back to rags the next".
Tantalus, some of the second generation didn't raise spoiled brats.
They who didn't gain "success" but themselves scrimped and saved
while they tried to get by in a lower-class socio-economic life.
But they are rare - indeed many may have arrived here from other countries where depression-like hard times were yesterday to them.
But Blooper too I agree with - we may devolve to tearing
each other apart for a scrap of meat on a few bones.
The meek may indeed be raptured away for they could not survive.

Selby's aunts ( in his 00:03 post ) may have their prophecies
come true but they may get more than the prepared for.

Gold and Silver may be the foundations for economic success.
But first we have to survive - and that requires food and
the other basic necessities of life - thus my stockpile of grub
as a foundation upon which to add Gold and Silver on the top.

Thank you all for great posts on the realities of a Great Depression
and how the experience affects the lives of the survivors and their subsequent generations.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:29 - ID#187109)
WhyTwoKay.......WhyYouKay?......not Kay again......
My work is related to the medical field and I must get authorizations from insurance companies on a daily basis.
( let's back this story up a bit ) ......
I recv'd, in the mail, a letter from one of our MAJOR carriers stating that WE must be compliant w/ WhyTwoEtc... Well, I got on the blower ( phone ) and talked to the head-dude working on THEIR compliance asking if they were ready. He said it is his job ( and has been for more than a year ) to make sure and he has full confidence that they will be ( I believe that MANY private firms will be ready but not so true for large gubmanet instit's ) . ( moving forward ) ......... ( follow along StudioR ) . ;- )
I receive authorization's through the internet and when I looked at the latest attempt ( Friday ) it seemed all was I looked at the date that this patient will be eligible again it said 7/24/1901............. ( hmmmmmmm ) ...
I chuckled..........and thought of me mate in OZ land.............. ( the fin of sharing ) ................I will wait until Monday to call this head-dude and give him 'the bizness'.
This was a true ( hands on ) story regarding WhyTwoKays........and why is it two Kays anyway.......and not three or four?? .......... I'll have to tink on dat one :-^ ) meet up with the Golden Head of CHEDDER to discuss buying BOATLOADS of Disney stock...................and ladybug too....uh the beach...
uying w/ both hands

oh yeah.....go gold.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:31 - ID#207145)
Old Gold
Positive conditioning of investors is hard to "un-learn" when markets reach turning points. It will cost investors dearly if they don't stand aside.
I warn anyone to stay out of this dangerous market. There are no good stocks to buy at market tops..Not even my dear European stocks. Survive to fight another day. No time soon.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:34 - ID#207145)
Intuitive post sir.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:37 - ID#28994)
If & when the next great depression comes, I find I can agree with Charles Keeling's post of 9:34, that there will always be some currency of value. With you, I can agree that the barter system and trade of goods for goods would play a large part in the next depression. Anything of material value such as diamond rings, gold watches, and artwork would come into play. There have been some excellent posts in the last few hours on the last great depression, and perhaps some of the older posters who lived through this could give us more insight in what to expect.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:38 - ID#413195)
in sack-o-tomatoes
EB: Who was it here who said that whenever someone tells you their systems are compliant and that they've completed testing for whytwokay compliance, you should simply ask them if they've tested their systems without electricity and without phones? Hehehehe . . . Who said that??? Brilliant.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:40 - ID#207145)
Old Gold
It may not be possible to stop the Lemmings. It irritates them to remind them where they're going.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:44 - ID#207145)
The only point I will consider
To re enter this market with small amount of funds is late October- mid Feb.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:48 - ID#287186)
Chas - Your close encounter with the Depression may explain
your drive to launch a Gold coin to be used for trade.
Perhaps I may help answer skinny's question about how
the trading value of Gold would be established.
We could start with Gold's current value in dollars
( or whatever currency you are using ) and compare that
with the pricetag on whatever you wish to buy.
Thus a US$1 loaf of bread would worth 1.6 grains.
Eventually the scanners in Grocery stores, etc. could be
reprogrammed for Grains of Gold ( if they survive Y2K ) .
Pricetags and shelf labels would have prices in Grains Gold.
We may need a 1/10th GG coin. A 5 grain Silver coin may do.
There should be no coin for less than that ( US 6 cents ) .

(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:54 - ID#187109)
True Indeedy....

be good today bugs.........AGULP to ALL.....must travel to the 'valley' of LALAland today.........aaaaaaaaaah........a 'tri-tip' of the finest quality and a ( LARGE&CHILLY ) ) mug of the most golden nectar will be awaiting my arrival...........JAMES!!!......the car! pronto! amigos wait with arms wide......... ( yahooooooo! ) ... fun&sun

(Sat Jul 25 1998 13:57 - ID#207145)
$US$ might be heading down .
Of course it is. But gold stocks might get caught up in this bear. It will be interesting to see what happens. I will look at how well Japan does hence forth. That will determine how well gold does. The market may confuse things.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:02 - ID#207145)
Crash by Dow=Down Europe
Slow descent Dow= Rising Europe. Flight to safety.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:05 - ID#290118)
Thank you to Sirs Blooper and Hermit
Away I am to check on wood/coal stoves, kerosene heaters,
and a current copy of SHOTGUN NEWS to determine prices
and availability of ammo, magazines, blowguns, crossbows,
and other survival items.
I look forward to my newly bought Silver arriving next week.
Disappointed I would be if its spot price dropped below $5.
But I have hope for Silver - even if I do not for Gold
( for the next several months - before it finally takes off )

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:07 - ID#207145)
You may be years too early for survival, but that stuff will keep. No squirrel rifles?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:07 - ID#187109)
one more thing before departing to partydom....
I am reminded of a line from a Billy Joel song ( I think he did it ) that is rather apropos for your warnings to the lemmings.....
"You may be right, but you may be wrong".......or something like that.
I am sticking with the cautious beenie-baby-boomers......... ( a new oxymoron ) ;- )
away... ( $ ) .

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:12 - ID#207145)
Slly told Alli, bout a thang she saw. Had two big horns, and a wolly jaw, wooly bully, wolly bully, wooly bully, wachit na, it"s gonna gitcha, hea comes. Wooley bully, wooley bulley, wooly bully. Git yo sef one really, pull the wool with you. Sorry Billy Joel.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:17 - ID#187109)
you kill me dude :-)
the blooper....the man of bloop.......blooping with the king.....herr bloopmeister.....blooptillyapuke.....
hats off to the bloopage...and AGULP ( and a puff ) to ya....... can Billy Joel

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:18 - ID#207145)
Sally told Alli
Sorry bout the spelling. I just got shoes the other day. Lemming warning. Imay be wrong, but I did call a July 23 TOP. I was right about that. I do hope I am wrong about this market. I would happily be wrong.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:19 - ID#373284)
EB, Namaste' The Fantastic Four, Reed, Ben, Johnny and of course Mrs. Reed
the Queen of Telekinesis...enjoy the day my friend... Baron Von Munchausen and I are attacking the Sultan...the Sultan is losing big time...

Victory is written underneath each and every grain of sand...

And now, to the Great Lawn...what an audience...

before the enigma knew matic I realized the stage has influence...

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:21 - ID#93199)
Fidelity Select Gold Charts
Fidelity Select Gold & Precious metals Charts
5 Years, 120 day, 30 day and hourly charts at:
Click on Gold Sectors

MARKET ALERT : All my Market Indicators are RED!!!

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:26 - ID#207145)
A gulp back to ya ( dont drink ) o ginger ale.
I guess you say "What can make me feel this way"? Kitco, talkin bou Kitco, Kitco. Billy Joel?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:28 - ID#207145)
It's red everywhere.A little ole bitty rally aint worth a 2% hair cut.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:29 - ID#207145)
20% haircut
Off to practice typing.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:29 - ID#187109)
My dear amigo Tol#1.......AGULP......death to the Sultan..... ( let me know if you need help ) .......the Baron should be enough........from what I hear his left hook is a mighty one.
Bloop - you were a couple-o-days late ;- ) . Good show mate. That was rather Heppage of you. Now go break in those shoes....are they tap shoes? tick-tock...tappity-tap.....
away....'cause the smoke mobile is well warmed..........

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:31 - ID#207145)
No, I specified + or minus 2 days. Sorry EB.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:33 - ID#207145)
I'm wrong most of the time, so
Stand by. You will have many opportunities.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:37 - ID#207145)
Sam the Sham and the Pharohs
Would'n be sittin around on a Sat. worrying about money or investments.
Billy Joel would send his Agent.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:43 - ID#207145)
EB, Concerning "taps"
I do believe you got me confused with" danced, slapped his leg and take a step, across the floor", Mr. Bo Jangles. That be Neil Diamond.
Solitary man. Cerry, Cherry. Thank God for the night time, forget the day. Etc, etc. What were some Billy Joel songs?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:49 - ID#207145)
Billy Joel as in Perry Como?
Gone to listen to some Mel Torme. See youse guys later.
Strangers in the night, exchangin glances, strangers in the night,....

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:55 - ID#147201)
Squirrel re your 13:48
The depression was part of it, but if the dollar becomes relatively valueless, what else is there that any seller would accept but gold ( and silver ) ? When and if this situation develops, the POG may be far above today's. What ever the reference point, as you say, start there and correlate the "current" $ price with the gold weight unit. Go from there as you said. However, the mints I have talked to have a lower limit for the coin size. NZ Mint can do a 10 grain ( lower limit ) and the rest are at 20 grains. Silver junk does not exist in sufficient supply to handle this, but the mint can go from their lower limit and up to produce any quantity. I hate bimetallism, but for a period the silver may be necessary. As long as these coins are not denominated in any unit of account, only in weight units, it would do till things settle down. There is a lot of history to study about such an aberration in "money", but when it has ocurred, it was like overnight. Being prepared may take too much education?? Many thanx for your info, if this gets serious, pertinent thoughts from good minds are necessary, Charlie

(Sat Jul 25 1998 14:57 - ID#242325)
market outlook
White: if the put/call ratio is .59, there are 100 calls being sold for every 59 puts. Lots more optimists than pesimists. After all that has been the right thing to do for several years.

With so many trained live Pavlov's dogs to buy every dip ( there are some such on this site ) a lot of people are going to give back much of their post 1995 gains very quickly when this market turns.

One of the fundamental rules of investment is that the longer a trend persists, the more certain people are that it will contine. Hence they set themselves up for slaughter when the tide does finally change.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 15:10 - ID#147201)
I agree with both you and Keeling. However, if it gets as bad as it could get and the dollar is in a free fall, what would you use to do "everyday" shopping? No new coin would be effective practically speaking unless it was available for a while before the downdraft. If some appropriate piece could be put out this summer, it may have a chance. However, the point is - what would you use for a weeks groceries if the dollar was dropping daily? How do you handle paying in anything of value,except some coin, that can't be cut, filed or re bartered for change? A small coin that can be added up to meet the cost is preferable to filing or cutting a larger one. Gold could be many times the current value. Thanx for your comments, Charlie

John Disney__A
(Sat Jul 25 1998 15:18 - ID#24135)
Hello there
For chas ..
I too was born in Richmond Va .. How about that ??

For Salty/Nick
How about that bok DEfense ??

For all ..
Disney first law still operative ..
Gold fell on friday because of that ..
POG = 41,250/yen = 41250/141.3 = 291.9
actual = 291.3 ( close enough )

Im starting to dislike this law.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 15:22 - ID#147201)
John Disney re Richmond
Where and when? It was a really nice place till about 1960. Like DC now. Cheers, Charlie

(Sat Jul 25 1998 15:22 - ID#28994)
I was just reading in the Northern Miner that the Canadian mint is offering for investment purposes, a 1oz. wafer 24 carat.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 15:31 - ID#233199)
@ John Disney - Re: 41,250
Where is that number from?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 15:47 - ID#316193)
Another Thing to Worry About -- Personal Bankruptcies During the Debt Generation
Scroll down, click on "The Debt Generation"......

(Sat Jul 25 1998 15:48 - ID#316193)
The Debt Generation URL Again

(Sat Jul 25 1998 16:11 - ID#240327)
RJ & The Don RE: roll back
Whenever thinking about a fix we tend to think about fixing 'our' system ( s ) . We think, "If I do such and such, then I'll be fine." But what if 25 to 75% of the rest of the USA and WORLD don't get that far??? Well, you may have a working system which has no customers.

Every embedded system, computer and interconnectivity must be analyzed and a solution found which best fits the ( typically ) hand crafted solution that was installed. There are very few boiler plate systems. So what we are really talking about is a logistical impossibility at this point in time. People will work feverishly till the very end as the world literally dis-integrates around them. Yet most will not finish and those who do will have no customers to speak of in 2000.

The bigger they are the harder they fall. Yes, the US government will seize up. But so will huge corporations. Small and mid-sized companies will fail in huge numbers. What will be left will be the tattered, bloody remains of a once great world embracing economy.

What if 25% of all US companies failed?

What if 30% of all European companies failed?

What if 35% pf all Asian companies failed?

What is 40% of all second-world companies failed?

What if 50% of all governments failed?

What if they all failed together at about the same time?

I suppose that we will find out because, at this point, that is what it looks like from here.


See ya'll a fer peice from now.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 16:12 - ID#434108)
chas' grains of gold coins....//meanwhile garnering capital
Charlie, et al.,
( You need not 'hate' silver/bi-metalism...
we live, after all, in a world of polarities... )

Units of coinage, by weight....
of gold, and silver
are indicated,
to be sure.

I just did a search on alta-vista: "gold+coins"....

many interesting..
perhaps a few...
useful entries/urls....for
your endeavor...

Bottom line, ( -imho )
is what we currently refer to as

I sense your interest is
in finding
a world-wide, universal, common-unit-weight-measure
of gold coin, in an increasing, graduate-ing ...
weights of meansure .....series...

an increasing series of defined & valued gold coins....
by weight.

Ounces & pounds are the popular weights of measure, in the U.S.

"Grains" may offer more universal appeal/recognition/acceptance.
as well as...
more lower units of value & measure....
and thus
more accessible to the humble multitudes of world-wide humanity.

Good luck in your endeavor.

Do not get the cart before the horse.
If the dollar wanes, as it already is...
it will decline, in the face of rising alternatives..
other currencies,
and investment market alternatives, such as commodities,
and the stock & bond markets
of other countries/nations/regions....

This is where
the action is
so to speak.

Build capital....

Create a universal gold-standard coin...

( And, imho, do not deny/condemn -
nor -
a silver-coin series, of like mintage -
to your gold coin project/undertaking.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 16:15 - ID#43349)
@Gandalf the White
The author wasn't too far off base. A put call ratio of .59 means there are about seven puts for every 12 calls. So 12 of 19 are calls and thus approx 2/3 are betting the market will go up. His mistake was saying 2/3 were puts when really 2/3 were calls. See?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 16:33 - ID#434108)
Gandalf & put/call ratios
Here's a url on this subject.

I've not used this valuable indicator in years.
Even so, if it is useful,
it will because you are charting it's values, over time..
over many months, and many years...
in comparison to it's ( -the ratio's ) ...
corresponding market/index.

Look for extreme ratio values;
and then, after that, ...
look for up-trending bottoms/lows...
for the ratio....
look for down-trending highs/tops...
for the ratio...

and relate these
to the corresponding values
of the market/index/stock/commodity...
that you are studying.

Here is one
that I hope will be of help to you:


(Sat Jul 25 1998 17:14 - ID#220325)
Thanks for the article on silver, a great explantion of traders methods

(Sat Jul 25 1998 17:17 - ID#220325)
Skinny I have lived through the 1930's Depression
At that time cash was KING! No one had any nor could you earn it, NO JOBS. Gold was confiscated and then revalued by Roosevelt but the people had to turn in theirs.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 17:37 - ID#28994)
Snowbird 17.17
You have brought up a point worthy of discussion. I assume that because of the actions of President Roosevelt, that gold was basically declared useless only in the U.S.A.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 18:07 - ID#255284)
Talk about depression!

Akshuly Mr Bojangles was written by Jerry Jeff Walker, him fella also wrote Trashy Women, kinda been bugging me of late that one "Too much lip-stick, too much rouge" That and Pachelbel's canon & Gigue in D major.


Awesome Wallabies win!. When the All blacks lose a Test match the country, I mean the *country* goes into mourning. When the All blacks lose two in a row should expect a hit on business confidence, perhaps a slide in the NZSE, such things cause depressions for a rugby-crazy-country. That does not auger well for the imminent float ( IPO ) of Auckland Airport. Marvellous, how in the New Right Paradigm, the gobmint can take an asset built up over a generation or two by Taxation and SELL it back to the taxpayers. The Auckland Airport is being sold back to its owners, kinda like Telecom, the Ports, Electricity was. High publicity on TV, the immediate past captain of the All Blacks ( Sean Fitzpatrick ) was touting the stock to the sheeples. Now, would you buy highly-priced stock in an airport when tourism has been decimated because of the Asian Correction?

I shall dig up some info I have fairly close at hand on the NZ depression. It will suprise most to hear that NZ's depression started after the end of WWI, and continued through the twenties, the Northern Hemisphere Crash of 29 only prolonged the length of the NZ depression, not the depth of it. As I have posted already, the NZSE crashed in 1987, around my feet as it were, and is currently trading at 55% of 87 values...NZ, the country that once led the world in Cradle to Grave Social Welfare, once showed the world the way to a long depression, may just do that again. ( ( on a Dymaxion map of the world, NZ is the leading landmass, it actually looks like a vanguard ) )

Thanks for the post. THe rain hasn't stopped, that fella was posting from the Waikato, underwater. I am sure our banks know they are in deep do do. I wonder if I'll get a reply from my bank.

And, for topicality for any new kiwi lurkers: GST is not chargeable on 9999 Precious Metals, but is on any less purity. Go figure. Go Gold

(Sat Jul 25 1998 18:21 - ID#254112)
@vronsky: Your AG Speach Analysis (pointed to at 10:10)
I completely agree with your analysis and with your conclusion.
I'm very happy you came up with the question: Why did AG raise the Gold Standard issue in the context of warning very hard and clearly about the inevitable burst of the bubble ?

If he just would plan to prepare for his retirement next spring and have a "laissez-faire, laissez-passee" attitude towards the inevitable crash he would not throw this concept into the discussion.

My impression is, he expects the crash to happen rather sooner than later. He wants to prepare the public for it's inevitability. He did so in a completely unhidden, open way. That is not diplomatic talk or nebulous talk. That's straight forward what he said.

It is obvious that AG sees clearly that when this bubble bursts, this event will have the effect of a global financial earth quake with possibly devastating consequences.

If he prepares for a program to respond to this catastrophy - what else should he do in case he thinks it might happen within three or four months? - to reintroduce the good old gold standard might very well be his concept. This might be even the concept of his true bosses from the financial oligarchy.

If this oligarchy wants to respond to the EURO competition, these guys will need some really big caliber to shoot with. A US$, weakened through a stock market crash, will not be a very convincing financial instrument, acceptable as a reserve currency. The idea, that a fiat currency, created through debt and only backed by what?.. by the prestige of the single remaining superpower and it's ability to pay back debts, might not be convincing enough. Maybe peoples around the globe will start thinking that the US government just uses its prestige to create some faked money?

My feeling is, when this bubble bursts, America's economy will be done for quite a while, and with it the current type of dollar.

I think gold has a inevitably great future and it is not at all an accident that ole AG reminded the world about his romantic feelings towards gold. The only diplomatic cover was to wrap his feelings into the word "nostalgic". I think he has something very real in his mind and not just nostalgic memories.

I think the financial oligarchy sees the time for the thin air based dollar running out, and for a change, will refer back to the inevitable gold standard.

This is of course a very daring prognosis. But I think these oligarchs have not the mentality to look at the inevitable crash like a little mouse, hypnotised by a snake. They want to stay on top of things.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 18:25 - ID#434108)
depression in NZ//aurator @ 18:07
Do you have water there?
Is it clear
and pure?
Bottle it,
and send it here.
Your "depression"
will evaporate.

Take your focus
off of your
'bankers', and your government.

Place it ( -your focus ) ,
upon your inherent

the ( so-called )

the yr. 2000 armageddon - milked - for - all - it's -worth -

no totality of all of this
projected supposition, projection and possibility...

even a candle's warmth
to the nuclear-furnace of fire
and creative-life
that live
in you
and in me

in this present point of power

(Sat Jul 25 1998 18:26 - ID#43349)
Has anyone heard anything about Robert Rubin retiring in October?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 18:35 - ID#253153)
We are going to have an old fashion bank crisis and money panic
I have just completed an exhaustive study of major banks balance sheets analyzing assets and liabilities and I'm scared. Banks excessive lending and inability to mark down uncollectible loans, sometimes in 1999 will results in failures. I could give you a lot of dull stuff about transferrable CD's, decrease in reserves requirements, foreign lending and so called "liability management ", but the bottom line is that the big banks have been horribly mismanaged, and many of them won't survice. Some people say the government will resort to hyperinflation before they would allow this deflation to continue. In order to have hyperinflation, the government would have to resort to paying it's bills in currency instead of checks. It would require an enormous expansion of its printing facilities and by the time government employees began getting paid in cash instead of checks, the word would be out. Should this happen--and I don't say it won't---my advice would be to sell your treasuries and put everything into gold. So far, the government is paying its bills with checks. So my advice now is to buy gold and NOTHING ELSE against the day when financial panic arrives. Some people say why gold ? I can't
explain why people turn to gold during financial panic. All I can say is that people always have in the past , and I see no reason to suspect they won't this time. Some people may say-- we will buy gold as a safe heaven during turmoil. The current deflation is worsening every month and has arrived in North America. The stock market has begun a long anticipated decline , interest rates are declining and most commodities are beginning to collapse. God bless you all.
Thanks you.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 18:38 - ID#26793)
Searching for $160 million in pirate gold

(Sat Jul 25 1998 18:46 - ID#26793)
Congressman wants the IMF to sell its gold hoard of $32 billion

(Sat Jul 25 1998 18:59 - ID#26793)
"The Asian crisis has put the spotlight on deflation"

(Sat Jul 25 1998 18:59 - ID#255284)
good thinking from your fevered brow. Tnx

(Sat Jul 25 1998 19:03 - ID#147201)
ALBERICH your 18:21
Great minds run in you know. I've been thinking about Vronsky's post all day. I think you have narrowed it down to manageable proportions. If anybody can see the financial future, A G can. So, if the crash is inevitable, gold does have an inevitably great future. What makes it inevitable is - what else is there but gold ( and silver ) ?? Would like to hear more from you on this. Many thanx, Charlie

(Sat Jul 25 1998 19:04 - ID#252391)
Gold in DMs
The attached chart of gold in DMs is very concerning. The wedge pattern looks ready for a bread with a 4% decline to the 500DM level very obvious. It would seem that deflation and depression are in the air.

The AG and a gold standard. My fundlemental feel is that eventually gold will have its day vs. paper skyscrapppers, but it looks like along with everything else its going down first.

How telling was Friday's sell off? Look real ugly from any angle - XAU, gold - the stock market - seems everything may be sold off.
Gold and silver's action up until the afternoon on Friday had me turning
increasingly bullish until I looked at the commodity index charts and now this chart of gold in DMs. Furhermore given the power of the shorts in the silver market to contain the rally dispite falling silver stocks there seems to be an overwhelming conviction on the part of big players that demand will sufficently shrink to make it possible for the shorts to be covered at lower prices.

From the heart I feel gold and silver and the PGMs are a logical safe haven. Looking at the charts - nothing looks like a safe haven othe than for now - the dollar.

Monday could see quite a spike of metal bearishness - these sea changes of bullishness don't last very long - APH's belief in a spike down climatic bottom is looking very much more probably, finding gold below 280, the XAU in the 50's, silver in the $4s.

Hate to add further to the tone of bearishness on this board, but with the failures Friday that's the way I see it. The time for the metals jsut doesn't seem to have arrived. While confinced it will by year's end, declines Monday in Gold and the XAU would spell big trouble first for we who have held on too long.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 19:07 - ID#251166)
@ Gollum, re. Rubin retiring
Yeah, heard that too. But in the follow-up interview -- *with him* ( Rubin ) -- he denies it. Apparently the story rose in an interview with one of his friends. Read both pieces. Don't remember the context of the friend piece. My conclusion: Rubin'll stick around for awhile.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 19:10 - ID#251166)
@ Gollum, again
BTW -- Didn't thank you properly for your great silver rally last week. Lots of fun. We do it again real soon, yes?

Also: What've you got in store for plat this week?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 19:11 - ID#374204)
tolerant1 - the three sisters wilderness ehhhh?
while you may reside on a lengthy, yet narrow, terminal moraine -
your point of origin must have certainly been elsewhere.
A sip to ya', and a large King's crown. Have yet to see the "patron",
and haven't seen the other for a time not soon forgotten. GO GOLD?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 19:18 - ID#244418)
Drudge to Interview Larry Nichols tonight
The man the Clintons hate and fear above all others---longtime Arkansas critic Larry Nichols, will be interviewed by Matt Drudge tonight at 8 pm central time on the Fox News cable channel, which can be heard on the internet with Real Audio player at
I heard Larry friday morning on a talk show---he was claiming that the real reason Starr called a second grand jury to hear the secret service agents was because they are being asked about drug use by Clinton in the
White House. This show could make waves and impact the markets.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 19:23 - ID#242325)
selling climax
Jims: I'm not sure about Monday, but agree that a final selling climax looks very probable in the near future.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 19:25 - ID#254112)
"Electric Utilities and Y2K" is the title of a book
written by Rick Cowles. I ordered it from and received it today.

I finished reading until page 24. Cowels says about nuclear power plants a few very alarming things. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission ( NRC ) demands that every nuclear plant can prove conclusively that the Y2K bug will not impact the safe operation of the plant, or else the plant will be shut down at the end of 1999.

"Hundreds of automatic controls and embedded chips exist throughout a plant. Many essential, and date dependent, data bases and maintenance scheduling computer programs are required for a plant to continue operating. Literally everything has to be exhaustively reviewed and documented for its impact on the ability to safely operate the plant."

Basically, Rick Cowles suggests that there is not enough time left anymore to carefully perform this enormous job. Therefore, the NRC will be forced to require that almost all nuclear plants will be shut down by the end of 1999. Around 20% of the US electricity supply comes from nuclear power.

I'm going to read on now to find out what Cowles has to say about "Fossil Fuel Facilities". By the way, he is an expert and insider of the industry.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 19:26 - ID#251166)
Excerpt from Captain Bill at the Privateer
There is no doubt, however, that the U.S. stock market is losing its momentum. Gold has no
momentum right now, in either direction. Right now, both are very close to major support
points: Dow 9000 - Gold $US 290. By the track record of the past three years, the Dow
should rally again and Gold should break below its support. But if Gold's support holds and
the Dow fails to regain the 9000 level, we have a big change.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 19:28 - ID#286230)
What if LS/2000 Works
Allen ( USA ) Apparently LS/2000 is a software program that goes through existing programs --finds code that goes only to 1999 and fixes it in about 3 languages as required. What happens to the YK2 disaster if it works? Anyone here competent to evaluate the LS/2000 claims?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 19:56 - ID#43460)
Selby, two things to remember about USG
1 ) They save a lot of old stuff. There are warehouses full of old manual and tube type equipment, boneyards full of old planes and tanks in the desert, and lots of spares to use if the new stuff doesn't work. 2 ) A lot of the stuff they use day to day is still the old tube technology or dumb transisters, which stand EMP better than IC technology. So even if the F-16's can't get off the ground they can still come up with swarms of F-4's and A-10's to get the job done, using radar equipment designed in the 1960's to tell where to go to drop the bombs. IMHO

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Sat Jul 25 1998 20:02 - ID#347267)
Fleckenstein Comments on Silver
URL previously posted, but for those of you who did not check it out, worth a look:
"As I see it
Let's talk silver. There is an article in the paper that Buffet may be buying silver again. That could be true, but it appears that he is taking delivery of the silver he had purchased and lent into the market because it was so tight; he wanted to prove he wasn't squeezing the market. As a result, silver has been doing better.

After giving it some thought he has decided the risk/reward and fundamental story is great, but I believe there has to be some other motive. My conclusion is he has decided silver is going to be a year 2000 play. I happen to believe there is going to be a lot of disruption with the year 2000 transition, but before we get to the year 2000 there will be a certain amount of panic in the markets, which would be a perfect time for the precious metals to rally--especially if by next year the world economy is in trouble and equity markets are in the tank.

I've advocated my friendly view towards the metals in the past, especially silver, and now I think not only is silver a great story, but it has a year 2000 component to it that could serve as a catalyst to propel it higher. The only equity you can own and get a real play on silver ( with good management and financials ) is Pan American silver. ( For full disclosure, I am director and own shares in it. ) I think the risk/reward going forward is extremely attractive. Certainly not risk-free, but if it works, it works big."

(Sat Jul 25 1998 20:04 - ID#23195)
Allthough statistically and geographically it seems one can find lots of goats in countries where people are looking for gold ,this does not necessarely mean one has to look for a goat in order to find gold.........I recently heard freegold has been absorbed by Anglogold can anybody confirm this??

(Sat Jul 25 1998 20:07 - ID#286230)
gagnrad: I think I missed your point.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 20:09 - ID#432221)
Selby, "silver bullets" abound out there, this LS2000 is the latest of

dozens or hundreds. Not one of them will fix the "imbedded chip" problem. Not one of them will soothe my concerns. They all may be, in fact, govornmental propoganda IMO.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 20:12 - ID#412286)
ARE clearly against the interests of working Americans at every point. They feign nationalism and then agree to every corporate worker impoverishing act in the name of economic ( sic ) freedom ala Rush LimBag. There should be a special place in the new education for those who advocate policies to exacerbate suffering for the middle class and working people.Social Security..PAY IT ALL OUT OF INCREASED INHERTANCE AND HIGH INCOME TAXES. Cure SOCIAL SECURITY TAX THE INCOME OFF THE TAX!

(Sat Jul 25 1998 20:15 - ID#29048)
The Barron's article on silver confirms a great deal of what D.A. has posted here and so I thought it would be of interest. You are welcome.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 20:20 - ID#412286)
Social Security
Save it based on paying down the deficit with the "big surplus". Raise taxes on estates and over 130k income earners to make up the difference. Increase taxes on brokerage and mutual fund companies.. in general increase taxes on the rich and corporations and give massive family tax breaks for kids and jack up inheritance taxes big time. America can still work.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 20:35 - ID#263254)
Klinton and his secret whereabouts
So, I sort of wonder why the press along with the house on the hill has decided to lie about where Klinton is this evening. Everyone thinks he's at Camp David. Nope. He's in my friggin back yard, just over the hill from you, Squirrel. Him along with the largest contingent of uniforms that have EVER been assembled in this little town.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 20:53 - ID#26793)
Adding to the discussion on silver.
Silver has been above its 233 day moving average most of the time since September, 1997. It fell slightly below the line during late May, all of June and now has moved back above. That re-test outcome is very positive in my opinion. Except for the Hunt Brothers run-up, part of 1982 and 1986, it has been below the 233 or just hanging on to it.

Mtn Bear (SE)
(Sat Jul 25 1998 20:55 - ID#347267)
@ ALBERICH_A your 19:25
Namaste' , just to enhance your post and give others a chance to read directly something of Mr. Cowles: ( Add http:// to the urls please )
Info on Rick Cowles re Electric Grid and Y2k: For those not familiar with Mr. Cowles, the first url is an artocle published in Feb of this year but still pertinent. Read his biographical sketch at the bottom.
All such info is available at the extensive Gary North site: You can "start in the middle" by going to the Power Grid sub topic using the following url:
You can go anywhere you want from there.
If you are not keeping track, time is getting shorter. Look at the clock:
( The "Federal Time" is Gubment work time for all those IRS computer fixer uppers!! )
Better start on them preps folks ---

(Sat Jul 25 1998 20:56 - ID#43349)
That Barron's article was very interesting to me too. It is facinating to see some of the inner workings. I always like D.A.'s postings too.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:04 - ID#43349)
I don't follow platinum. It gives me a headache.

For next week, I don't see much on my radar screens yet. As we get into Sunday night I'll see if silver might be a go again. We may have something of a gold rally a little later in the week. So maybe there's room to kick off a little more silver action before then.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:09 - ID#26793)
U.S. wants probe of Indonesia military for torture and murders. They are U.S. trained.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:10 - ID#30116)
Shares of stock per ounce of gold....
The chart below shows the price of gold, Newmont Gold Corp., and the ratio of the two. You could look at it as the number of shares that one ounce of gold will buy. We are in 'new' territory here, and doesn't look like it's getting any better. FWIW, gold could rally to the $320 ( $US ) level and STILL be in a down trend.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:23 - ID#30116)
OK, maybe I was a little 'harsh' on the POG.
I'll take back the $320 level and say something like $312? Then again, nothing else has worked in evaluating the POG, perhaps a random number generator? :- )

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:26 - ID#26793)
Fresh riots in Indonesia as police stop free market attempt by pedicab drivers.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:27 - ID#26793)
I thought we wanted buy low, sell high? That chart looks like good news.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:32 - ID#30116)
Then there's Getchell Gold.
Where will the bottom be for this one? When somebody buys it for reserves?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:32 - ID#26793)
Iran tests 800 mile missle; can reach Israel, Saudia Arabian-U.S. Bases

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:41 - ID#30116)
For a longer term look at things....
There's Agnico Eagle Mines.

Donald, it does look as thought gold is trying to move up. The question for the PM stocks is, will anybody care? No matter how you slice it, gold is cheap, but that doesn't mean it won't get cheaper. IMO, I don't buy the deflation story. History has shown the politicians what will happen to them if that scenario plays out. Of course, in the end, it will. The trick is in the journey betwixt now and then. Ever notice how the damn crystal ball goes on the blink when you need it the most???

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:43 - ID#43460)
Panda, silly answer and serious one
IMHO there are 2 possibilites here to understand the numbers. The first is that one could try divination via cheese stuffed jalpeno peppers or chicken livers as a means to achieving a right brain consciousness as to develop intuitive logic states like I do. Or one could explore the possibilities of fractal geometry. I'll leave it to you to decide which one is silly and which serious. ( You know, if a person got deeply enough into this he could start thinking of resistance levels not as resistances per se but as strange attractors. ) IMHO

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:45 - ID#26793)
Korea sticks it to Microsoft

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:50 - ID#26793)
You ought to take another look at the deflation story. Here is the problem; there are too many machines making too much stuff. There are no customer with credit or cash to buy the stuff. To make matter worse, the machines making the stuff have not been paid for. The countries that make the stuff all want to ship it here. The shipping containers that bring the stuff here are going back empty. Deflation will be the result.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:54 - ID#30116)
A political aside....
Ever notice how, when something 'not nice' is about to happen or happens to the Slick One, some other 'event' ( Capitol Hill shooting ) happens?

Of course we get the standard cry for more gun control ( More BS ) and then the media experts tell us 'what' happened. Yesterday, one of those local anchor women made the comment that the gunman 'used one of those deadly guns', which was quickly followed by, 'I'm no expert on guns...' Now pardon me, but the last time I checked, FIREARMS were considered weapons, and lethal ones at that. I think her poor choice of words was to be a lead in to the semi-auto debate. There was no agenda there, now was there...

Does anyone know what type of weapon was used? Also, has it been revealed as to who shot whom? With so much lead flying.....

(Sat Jul 25 1998 21:58 - ID#26793)
The father of the gunman says his Smith & Wesson .38 is missing.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:01 - ID#30116)
Like I said, in the end....

But for now, 125% loans to buy new homes, credit cards up the wazoo, and nary a decent looking 'C' note ( or 'Grant' for that matter ) to be found. The other day I was doing some food shopping and saw a women in line at the register with what I thought were food stamps. Silly me! She had a fist full of the new ( read ugly monopoly money ) fifty dollar bills...

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:01 - ID#344220)
@ Panda
Gunman had 38 sp. revolver. Curiously a great number of shots fired which will be of interest as to who fired.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:03 - ID#30116)
Take it easy there fella! I like chicken livers! :- )

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:14 - ID#30116)
I have a guess as to what probably happened. But it is nothing more than speculation on my part. I have fired a firearm or two. I once had a Colt government pistol go full auto due to the ammunition primers being seated to high, otherwise known as a slam fire. Quit an experience. The cyclical rate of fire is around 300 rounds per minute under those conditions. I had five rounds in the magazine and I'm happy to report that I shot everything from the nine o'clock to twelve o'clock position in about one second. :- )

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:16 - ID#284255)
Dr Ed
Y2K COMMENT: Last week, I spoke on the global dangers of Y2K at CIA
headquarters near Washington, DC. That's all I can say. I also testified
before Senator Lugar's Agriculture Committee on Y2K and the global food
chain. The Senator is very concerned about the problem and has
introduced legislation to prod the USDA to make more Y2K progress. I
support his effort, but I am disturbed that it is even necessary at this
late date.

Many of us are planning various events on GLOBAL Y2K ACTION DAY, August
19, when there will be only 500 days until Jan. 1, 2000. I am organizing
an all day COUNTDOWN 2000 CONFERENCE to be broadcast live ( and
rebroadcast ) over the Internet. The latest issue of my Y2K REPORTER is
available with stories focusing on why some folks Get It ( GIs ) and
others Don't Get It ( DGIs ) . Most GIs share at least one important
insight: All systems that fail, will do so at exactly the same time! I
also take aim at critics who dismiss Y2K alarmists as doomsayers. I, for
one, expect an economic recovery starting in 2001 and a new record high
for the Dow by 2005, following a wicked recession and bear market in

SUBSCRIBERS: I continue to believe that the worst is still ahead for
Asian economies. Japan has let the banking problem fester for too long.
Imagine how bad the US economy would be today if the S&L crisis had
never been resolved. The latest GLOBAL ECONOMIC BRIEFING shows that US
exports to Asia are collapsing. This has to be bad for earnings.

MOVIES: Like Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan is another Spielberg
masterpiece depicting the extremes of human nature, from the heights of
self-sacrifice to the depths of brutality. ( + + + )


Dr. Ed

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:20 - ID#284255)
Bill Clinton and his driver were cruising along a country road one
night when all of a sudden they hit a pig, killing it instantly. Bill
told his driver to go up to the farm house and explain to the owners what
had happened.

About an hour later, Bill sees his driver staggering back to the car
a bottle of wine in one hand, a cigar in the other, and his clothes all
ripped and torn.

"What happened to you?" asked Bill.

Well, the Farmer gave me the wine, his wife gave me the Cigar and his
19 year old daughter made mad passionate love to me.

"My God, what did you tell them," asks Clinton.

The driver replies, "I'm Bill Clinton's driver, and I just killed the

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:23 - ID#30116)
One thing that I do know is that jacketed bullets ( especially full metal jacket FMJ ) bounce nicely off of granite. Lead isn't much better. The only hope for lead is that it just goes SPLAT! A slow moving round like the .38 Spcl. bounces nicely of most anything hard though.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:23 - ID#413109)
Thanks to another great chart by Panda- I was reminded of the way
NEM makes bottoms and tops ( a flag or penant ) which means, if you
check out about 30 years of patterns, we are seeing a bottom pattern
forming, or already formed.
Old Gold's look for a final washout, could come early in the week
and could be the best opportunity to buy, BUT that sort of buying
takes guts.
I'm still optimistic that we're headed higher from these levels, even
if another dip is in the cards.

Appreciate the many great posts on Why to Kay.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:26 - ID#30116)
:- ) ) :- ) ) :- ) )

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:33 - ID#30116)
I just hope this bottom doesn't turn out to be an abyss! If everyone scrambles for cash, then the 'blue chip' gold stocks will get flushed ( is that possible, now?! ) even harder. Some of these stocks show up in other indexes, and barring a straight index option/future trade, may be sold out first ( if it hasn't been done already ) .

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:34 - ID#43460)
donald, crunch, don't get me started ranting and raving!
This unfortunate shooting incident is the direct result of 20 years of radical court decisions setting precident for laws reducing the ability of families, healthcare practitioners and local law enforcement to assist and control the chronic, severely mentally ill. IMHO

These court precidents are always argued by richly funded revolutionary organizations such as the ACLU under the guise of control of abuses and always designed to put the control of the insane into insane hands; which is why you see people sleeping on heating grates and under bridges, see panhandlers urinating in alleys and why you can't walk the streets of US major cities at night. IMHO

You recall similar incidents happened to Ronald Reagan in 1981 and to a crowd of tourists in Tasmania and to a host of Unibomber victims ( the list is endless, these are just the more notorious ) ? IMHO

Do you recall the book "The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956 : An Experiment in Literary Investigation" by Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn"? Well the author describes a favorite method of controlling political prisoners. They are put in a situation of helplessness among violent and often insane criminals. Think about it. IMHO

Well, this is as good a reason as any to accumulate PM's in the physical form as it adequately demonstrates a breakdown of Western society. IMHO

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:36 - ID#287186)
JP - your 18:35 and how fast the US can print money
I checked some Treasury sites and did some figuring.
The US Gov't could print $40 to $50 billion per week if they had to.
The Bureau of Engraving and Printing produces 38 million notes a day with a face value of approximately $541 million.
95% of the notes printed each year are used to replace notes
already in circulation. 48% of the notes printed are $1 notes.
Each pair {face&back} of presses at 8000 32-note sheets/hour
could print 6 million notes per 24 hours. The western facility
has 6 pair of presses and produces 40%.
We may assume Washington has 9 pair for the other 60%.
All the presses running 24/hrs day, 7days/wk {less 38% down time}
could print $40 billion per week - more with less down time
especially if they got Scotty to tweak them.
For current production refer to:

That still would not make a significant dent in replacing M3
with green currency unless they started now printing big bills
and did not destroy old bills - but kept them in reserve.>

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:37 - ID#30116)
Next week and WJC?
It should be interesting to see how the market reacts to the Subpoena for the Shlickmiester. Good night all........

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:41 - ID#227238)
Donald @21:10: That's about as good a capsulization of the deflationary process as I have ever seen. "Too many machines, making too many things...... and none of the machines are paid for". Excellent.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:44 - ID#227238)
Panda: I lost my total address book awhile back. Please email me when you have a chance.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:48 - ID#220325)
Skinny Numasmatic gold coins prior to a certain date were legal!
If you are interested in which ones I recommend that you search Vronsky"s golden eagle site, Robnoel or a coin dealer . Those coins would have appreciated in value with the upward valuation in gold from $20.00 to $34.00 and their numasmatic value if any. If the same circumstances arise re depression who knows what the US Govt would do. In Canada where I live holding gold has to the best of my knowledge always been legal ( for the time being ) . Canada has sold off most of it's gold, they may be very hungry for it later.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:53 - ID#220325)
Speed- Thanks for the notice on the Barron's article
Do you happen to have the posting time or the url?

Much appreciated.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:54 - ID#220325)
APH Your information is great
Many thanks

(Sat Jul 25 1998 22:55 - ID#287186)
Sharefin - perhaps only those of you outside the US
Can get away with jokes/wishes like that.

This is a great site for when electric ovens byte the dirt.
DFownload all the goodies now. No juice later = no download.

for those who have squirrel away hundreds of pounds of honey
I'll drink to that!!!!

(Sat Jul 25 1998 23:08 - ID#431366)
The Capitol shooting will be used to advantage.
The Clinton gun banners will use the shooting as further cause
for banning handguns of any make and model.
The treasonous fornicating dirtbags likely set it up!
ALERT - LAST WARNING and all that...
If you thought about buying any gun, especially a handgun
before Y2K. DO IT NOW! Even 22 rifles will feel the heat.
By fall there will be more legislation from Congress.
What better way than for the President to have his message
taken into the halls of Congress in the guise of 38 slugs.
Go to gun shows in your area.
Contact local shooters clubs, aka, rod & gun clubs.
You can usually buy stuff without a lot of paperwork.
Especially if the dealers are not FFLs, but just citizens.
The only way to protect your Gold, Silver and Family Jewels
is with an "equalizer".
NOW or NEVER or "black market".

(Sat Jul 25 1998 23:09 - ID#207145)
Who wrote Wooley Bully. Not Jerry Jeff Walker, not Billy Joel.
Perry Como? Mel Torme.

(Sat Jul 25 1998 23:13 - ID#35049)
Mtn Bear -Pan Silver
read your post on Pan American Silver. Would you please gforward more information on that? Thanks Ron E-Mail:

(Sat Jul 25 1998 23:15 - ID#431366)
Mead - the drink of the Gods! (or squirrels
If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the
wuids, Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!

(Sat Jul 25 1998 23:30 - ID#240316)
Yvan Auger Believes XAU to Rally
Since January he's been the most accurate that I've followed. It's worth a look-see at his site

(Sat Jul 25 1998 23:31 - ID#43349)
Bart's coin
The ad doesn't show us the full Mountie

(Sat Jul 25 1998 23:48 - ID#24563)
Donald and all
Do you think it is possible we could experience both inflation and deflation at the same time?

(Sat Jul 25 1998 23:49 - ID#255284)
in ANOTHER life------
Bloop dappa wop doop da wang bam boom

Wooly Bully recorded by Sam The Sham & The Pharaohs

(Sat Jul 25 1998 23:59 - ID#341234)
To: Gollum
Good one.